# Books to turn frigid wife into sex goddess



## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

I'm not a newbie here and I know there are no magic bullets to improve a sexless mariage. I ve already read the No More Mr Nice Guy theories and am convinced my lack of alpha wasn t really helpful.

However, I ve noticed my wife can be way less inhibited after some glasses of wine and even though it's often explained that "pressure" won t help to enhance the SO's sex drive I was wondering if anyone could suggest some books that could help my wife to open up for sex. 

Mating in captivity gives a good overview, but I'm more looking for positive selfhelp/couples books that help discover one's sex preferences, unlock one's sex drive, open up for sex, both psychological as technical. 

Anyone any suggestions?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*The Sex-Starved Marriage: Boosting Your Marriage Libido: A Couple's Guide* by Michele Weiner Davis




.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Please come back a post one if you find one!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

chillymorn69 said:


> Please come back a post one if you find one!


That actually works


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Don't rely on booze.
If she can't leap on you sober, why would you want to have to resort to getting her drunk or even tipsy?

I do believe that alcohol relaxes, but if she doesn't lust for you when stone cold sober, then I'd work on strategies that don't involve alcohol.

It should be an option, not a necessity.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

If such a book actually existed, it would sell more copies than the Bible, 50 Shades, and the entire Harry Potter series combined.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I suggest your wife see a psychologist who can work with her on her sexual repressed attitude. Together they might find the cause and some remedies.

My wife was very repressed, and felt tremendous guilt regarding sex. Drinking alcohol made her able, caused her to, whatever, overcome her guilt a little. In the mid eighties I discovered she would express some sexual desire when drunk. 

Personally I don’t like alcohol much, and neither does she. So we did not capitalize on it. That was right about the time Mary, my wife, started therapy. Sometime over her/our years of therapy the fact she responded to drinking that was discussed. One of her shrinks said it made sense. It was expected because she was so sexually repressed and alcohol worked to remove repression.

Mary has progressed a long ways since then. But alcohol still has a very noticeable affect on her. However, she is plenty sexual enough for me without it. It is true Mary still is repressed, but there are other ways to deal with repression than with drugs.

You just need to find what bothers her, and what excites her.

Find the right therapist to help her.

Good luck.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER? It was specifically written for that problem.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

The only book I can think of that has a snowball's chance is The Book of Mormon.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

I'm not a fan of using alcohol to reduce the inhibitions and I'm not telling alcohol should be the solution to unlock passion. I was only suprised by the effect of a couple of glasses on my wife appetite to kiss. I was pleased by the affection but then realised she has the passion but just blocks it.

I agree that therapy could be helpful. My wife may have set up some defense mechanisms preventing her to open up. She's also focused on performing and is a control freak in a way. The latter makes it difficult for her to start therapy since she's not convinced she needs it and she doesn't know to what it would lead.

I do not agree however on the fact that a good "unlock your sex drive" book could not exist. I'm convinced that some people can really open up for sex and intimacy through exercising and reading, in a same way as sex therapists help their clients. Unless if the issue is that those "asexual" people don't want to improve their sex life anyway. Hmm, this reminds me of the fact that my wife wasn't really bothered when a sex therapist once encouraged her to get to know her body better.

I'm currently reading the Married man sex life primer. Good book, but it only has solutions to be applied by the husband. Maybe for a reason...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Freetown said:


> I do not agree however on the fact that a good "unlock your sex drive" book could not exist. I'm convinced that some people can really open up for sex and intimacy through exercising and reading, in a same way as sex therapists help their clients. Unless if the issue is that those "asexual" people don't want to improve their sex life anyway. Hmm, this reminds me of the fact that my wife wasn't really bothered when a sex therapist once encouraged her to get to know her body better.


There are all kinds of books that can help one change.

But, the key is that the person has to *want* to change.

If that's not the case, then no book will help.

Does your wife want to change?

What motivation does she have to do so?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Freetown said:


> I'm not a fan of using alcohol to reduce the inhibitions and I'm not telling alcohol should be the solution to unlock passion. I was only suprised by the effect of a couple of glasses on my wife appetite to kiss. I was pleased by the affection but then realised she has the passion but just blocks it.
> 
> I agree that therapy could be helpful. My wife may have set up some defense mechanisms preventing her to open up. She's also focused on performing and is a control freak in a way. The latter makes it difficult for her to start therapy since she's not convinced she needs it and she doesn't know to what it would lead.
> 
> ...


of course its only going to be for the husband. its in the title... married MAN's sex life primer. why would you want a book that can tell you what your wife could do? you cant control her actions. you can only control yours.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Checkbook.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Buddy400 said:


> But, the key is that the person has to *want* to change.
> 
> If that's not the case, then no book will help.
> 
> ...


You're right about that. But I could convince my wife to read a book and if the book is well written for women and has a lot of triggers it might be helpful. 

Approach (simplified) could be as "hey ladies, you may not feel sexy or be into sex nowadays, you may not have that crush on your partner anymore, maybe your sexlife is dead..., but would you really want to continue this way and live a life without passion, without the pleasure and the good vibes sex can give you? Continue reading and find out how you can unlock your passion and get to enjoy all the beauty this can give you"...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Freetown said:


> Buddy400 said:
> 
> 
> > But, the key is that the person has to *want* to change.
> ...


If said ladies felt they were living a life "without passion and without the pleasure and good vibes sex could give them" and cared to change that, they would already be exploring how to change that.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

As'laDain said:


> of course its only going to be for the husband. its in the title... married MAN's sex life primer. why would you want a book that can tell you what your wife could do? you cant control her actions. you can only control yours.


You can only control your own actions, but you can influence your wife. A book could be helpful if it s a good book.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Livvie said:


> If said ladies felt they were living a life "without passion and without the pleasure and good vibes sex could give them" and cared to change that, they would already be exploring how to change that.


Unless if they don't care to change. Question is what can be a trigger for someone to change? Can watching an inspiring movie get people to start sporting or dieting?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Does she have any history of trauma? Do you notice her turning her head away during sex, or showing signs of anxiety during sex? Does she hide her body by not changing clothes in front of you or by putting a towel around her body before getting out of the shower?

There are many reasons she might need to have a couple of drinks to loosen up. For some reason she is too wound up without it. Some women's minds just race along and they have trouble relaxing. If she has a high pressure job or is a bit hyper active all the time, this could be a factor.

But the opening questions I asked are related to some kind of childhood or teen trauma, probably but not necessarily sexual in nature. Women who have suffered such traumas can exhibit those kinds of behaviors. My now xw needed a few stiff drinks before she could be sexual with me. For many years, decades actually, I figured it was something to do with me that she needed to get drunk to face having sex with me. I didn't know of her traumas. It could be that her need to drink is because of her own issues and has nothing to do with you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Freetown said:


> I was only suprised by the effect of a couple of glasses on my wife appetite to kiss.


My wife would not kiss unless drunk. Real drunk. It turns out that kissing was one of the control mechanisms her abuser used. I think this may be fairly common.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Turn yourself into a sex god. See if she responds. If she doesn't you have your answer.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I think you are thinking too “small”.

There’s no book which can help your wife sort through the guilt feelings she has. 

She must want to work on the issues, and it requires help.

You are asking for people to suggest which pen knife you should use in a nuclear war.

But, does your wife recognize she acts differently when she drinks? Does your wife think it might be good if she found a way to shed some of her inhibitions, which the drink seemed to help her do? What is your wife’s opinion on all this?


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

My wife assured me she doesn't have any youth traumas. However, she said she feels traumatized in a way by the discussions, disputes and interactions we had regarding sex. I can confirm that we had a lot of discussions on this topic (due to the difference in sex drive), me being frustrated and my wife not feeling appreciated. Though I think it's sad she blames most of it on me and sees it as a trauma. In a way it is a trauma, but it more than that. She wasn't very keen on sex before we met either, and I'm not sure if she really really likes me (if we're a good match).
She planned to read a book on how to recover from a trauma, but she never did it.

Anyway, the situation may be more complex than what I wanted to discuss in this topic. I just felt deceived after having noticed how passionate she was after some glasses of alcohol. As if my wife has a sex beast but just don't WANT to let it out.

And I do understand the concept of the Married man sex life primer (I have to be more alpha). It's just tough that once again I have to try to seduce my wife, even though she's somehow supposed to also invest in our marriage (e.g. by reading books)...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

well, you arent going to find a book that will teach you how to convince your wife to be a "sex godess". that doesn't mean you cant make it worth your wifes time to become your version of a sex godess, however. a book cannot do that for you because the things that motivate people are as varied as the people themselves. 

it IS possible, but you will need to know how to make your wife so happy that she cries, while at the same time be willing to cause her the anxiety from the fear of losing that very thing. you will have to find a way to let her know that you will always be willing to work with her so long as she will work with you, and you will have to show her that her willingness to work with you is something you cherish. not that you will get all pissy whenever she doesn't cooperate with you, but that you will give her the best side of you that nobody else gets to see when she DOES work with you. 

the question is, do you know your wife well enough to do that? 

here is a good starting point to find out: do you know how to turn your wife on so much that she just wants to jump your bones? if you don't know what buttons to press, you might want to learn them.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

As'laDain said:


> here is a good starting point to find out: do you know how to turn your wife on so much that she just wants to jump your bones? if you don't know what buttons to press, you might want to learn them.


I'm not sure those buttons aren't key locked. She says no one is really turning her on. 

I'm afraid it's a lost case. Too bad. I will give the more alpha approach a last try, but she s been given so many reasons for not feeling attracted to me in the past that I ve lost confidence.

Once a woman told me she used to be like my wife. She didn t like sex at all, her sex life was almost dead and she blamed her partner for it. She then divorced and met a new man. And guess what, her sex life is perfect now. Everything she didn t want and refused to do with her ex, she happily does with her current husband. She said she now understands it wasn t the fault of her ex, but just the 2 of them that didn t match.

Btw: with regards to the book I was looking for. I remember the 50 shades books had inspired and spicened up the sex life of a lot of women. I've read some sex therapists even adviced their clients to read these books. My wife has read the first one but didn t feel aroused in any way. She found the book stupid.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

50 shades is just a book about a rich sadist who hires a high priced call girl.

My wife has masochistic personality syndrome, and worships me, but she hates the book 50 shades of grey. There is no love in it, no caring at all. It makes no mention at all of all the other facets of masochism which make up the syndrome, and represent much more of the syndrome. It is just plain stupid, and is just a treatise meant to give a giggling glimpse for people who know nothing of what goes on in BDSM.

And it is for sadists.

My opinion is any man who is a real alpha would think it is a disgusting rag not worthy of being used as toilet paper.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You need to change the way your thinking about this situation. You need to find out the way your wife feels loved (not sex). 
Read the book...the Love Languages. There is a quiz you can both take online right away to find out. Then work on filling 
her with love the way she receives love. Man effort every single day to do this. Things will start to turn around if you
BOTH want it too. After that......you can move on to sex books.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Freetown said:


> I'm not sure those buttons aren't key locked. She says no one is really turning her on.
> 
> I'm afraid it's a lost case. Too bad. I will give the more alpha approach a last try, but she s been given so many reasons for not feeling attracted to me in the past that I ve lost confidence.
> 
> ...


do you even know how to make your wife feel loved?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Freetown said:


> My wife assured me she doesn't have any youth traumas. However, she said she feels traumatized in a way by the discussions, disputes and interactions we had regarding sex.


Both of those are common amongst CSA survivors. Denial that it happened, and then calling the spouse an abuser for something normal and benign.

Coming back from being called an abuser seems impossible to me. How can one feel close to somebody who thinks you are an abuser?


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## Randy2 (Jul 19, 2016)

"turning into a Sex Goddess" is definitely an unrealistic leap/goal/expectation. But incremental progress is possible. Any book or magazine or comment or discussion that gradually introduces more active acknowledgement of sexuality helps break down defenses. So my answer is "ANY book or magazine or comment or discussion" that she can TOLERATE being on the nightstand or the morning breakfast chatter, etc.". It might be a romance novel, or you reading the headlines of Cosmopolitan magazine while the two of you stand in the grocery store check out line. Slow and steady wins the race. 

Personally, "Real Sex for Real Women" was useful for my wife and I and was recommended by a fairly vanilla therapist. Though initially, my wife wouldn't even look at it


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Thor said:


> Both of those are common amongst CSA survivors. Denial that it happened, and then calling the spouse an abuser for something normal and benign.
> 
> Coming back from being called an abuser seems impossible to me. How can one feel close to somebody who thinks you are an abuser?


that is a whole other set of issues in of itself. i have been down that road before...

man, the longer i read these forums the more i wonder how it is that i am still married...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Freetown said:


> Approach (simplified) could be as "hey ladies, you may not feel sexy or be into sex nowadays, you may not have that crush on your partner anymore, maybe your sexlife is dead..., but would you really want to continue this way and live a life without passion, without the pleasure and the good vibes sex can give you? Continue reading and find out how you can unlock your passion and get to enjoy all the beauty this can give you"...


Yeah....that did absolutely nothing for my libido.

It seems the only ones who benefit from these phony self-help books are the authors as they laugh all the way to the bank.

Pfft.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Compatibility rules. For whatever reason you don’t really do it for your wife. A book won’t change that. 




Freetown said:


> I'm not sure those buttons aren't key locked. She says no one is really turning her on.
> 
> I'm afraid it's a lost case. Too bad. I will give the more alpha approach a last try, but she s been given so many reasons for not feeling attracted to me in the past that I ve lost confidence.
> 
> ...


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

IF she actually SAID that she is not attracted to you.... especially for made-up reasons.... then a book won't help.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

I do believe there is some truth in all of the theories being described in those books. The question is how to map all of these theories into each one of us' stories. What are the root problems and what are secondary issues? 
You may try to have those secondary issues fixed our find workarounds but the root causes may still remain unresolved.

I m pragmatic in that way that I m already happy with some improvements. We ll see.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

With regards to the compatibility issue: my wife said she was more attracted to me in the beginning. Not sure if I ever was fully compatible with her expectations though.

Still not sure why she doesn t want to divorce. Cause of the kids and cause I m a nice guy maybe.

I hoped that I could boost her appetite for sex with those books. Even with some non-loving technical sex I d already be happier. 

Btw: I did the love language test: 10	Physical Touch and 7	Words of Affirmation. I m not suprised. I ve invited my wife to do the test but don t think she will. The questions are about what you prefer to do for or with your partner. But she may actually prefer to do her own thing each time. We ll see.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Freetown said:


> My wife assured me she doesn't have any youth traumas. However, she said she feels traumatized in a way by the discussions, disputes and interactions we had regarding sex. I can confirm that we had a lot of discussions on this topic (due to the difference in sex drive), me being frustrated and my wife not feeling appreciated. Though I think it's sad she blames most of it on me and sees it as a trauma. In a way it is a trauma, but it more than that. She wasn't very keen on sex before we met either, and I'm not sure if she really really likes me (if we're a good match).
> She planned to read a book on how to recover from a trauma, but she never did it.
> 
> Anyway, the situation may be more complex than what I wanted to discuss in this topic. I just felt deceived after having noticed how passionate she was after some glasses of alcohol. As if my wife has a sex beast but just don't WANT to let it out.
> ...


OP, what are the differences between you/your wife's preferred frequency? You state very clearly that your wife wasn't very keen on sex before you which suggests that your wife may be naturally LD. In her mind, this is who she is. I imagine from her perspective it must be difficult to deal with your partner repeatedly insinuating that something is wrong with you because you don't have a strong interest in sex, especially considering this is who you were when you met. In her mind you're trying to change her into someone that she cannot be.

So while her comments about this situation being a traumatic experience for her may seem farfetched to you, it doesn't hurt to try to understand her perspective. Did you ask her to explain why discussions/disputes make her feel that way? How she'd propose you express your feelings without evoking that level of negativity in her? What you could do to create an environment where she feels more comfortable being sexual? What are her "sex busters"? What has her experience with sex been? How have her perspectives on sex evolved throughout her sexual lifetime? Would she actually like to be having more sex/when she fantasizes about the kind of woman she'd like to be, does she see herself as a more sexual person or not? 

Spend a little more time trying to get a real idea of who your wife is and whether you two are simply mismatched in sex drive, instead of focusing so much on trying to fix her. Your strategy for approaching this needs to change. You know from experience that getting her to read on her own hasn't worked, why are you still pursuing that avenue? Even if you did find a good book on the topic and you presented it to her, you risk her resenting another one of your efforts to change her. And that's only going to add to your own resentment plus add fire to the fuel that this must mean she's not as invested in the marriage. I say this having convinced myself of the same when my partner made zero efforts to read HNHN and Love Languages when I suggested it. I sent him the links to the virtual copies, no reading, printed them out for him, still no reading, told him how I felt that he made zero effort to read them, still no reading. I gave up feeling hurt, allowed some time to pass and asked that we sit and read something I wanted his feedback on. In that meeting, I asked that he choose one chapter and we read it right then and there and discussed it. Next time another chapter, next time just the tests. There was usually grumbling at the start of these sessions but they always ended well. Today, he's the first to go searching for insight/answers when we have a serious issue. Accept that some things haven't worked, and try something different.

I want to add that while my circumstances were different, I experienced being a partner with low desire in my last relationship and I definitely look back on some aspects of it as a traumatic experience. I lost sexual interest in my partner because he was a major nice guy (by the NMMNG definition). It is very difficult to lust after a man who has abandonment issues and is needy/whiny. The constant discussions and arguments were overwhelming. I could not pinpoint the root of the problem for a long time however I made suggestions I thought would help: start going to the gym (hoped this would help with his physical appeal, confidence and assertiveness), get counselling for abandonment issues, stop the gifting as it wasn't my LL and was always conditional, give me a grace period with zero pressure for sex, get a hobby and stop crowding me, stop being so nice and always agreeing to avoid conflict. To the latter he said he refused to be a jerk and stormed off sulking, WTF? 

None of my suggestions were heeded yet he would be lost when I disagreed that I failed to offer solutions and take the problem seriously. He couldn't comprehend that I too was suffering: he didn't see the tears I hid during sex on the occasions where I felt coerced by the pressure/his complaints; my LL is physical touch but history had shown that physical touch always transitioned into wanting sex so I had to avoid that; he didn't Kno how it hurt dreading coming home to the possibility of being berated for my lacking interest or feeling coerced into duty sex; where I enjoyed sex off and on before the complaints/pressure compounded, towards the end I had to disassociate during every sexual encounter because the constant complaints gave me zero time to depress and get in the mood. So please understand that this is not a walk in the park for your wife either. She probably thinks about the issue more than you think, not a day went by that it wasn't constantly on my mind.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Freetown said:


> With regards to the compatibility issue: my wife said she was more attracted to me in the beginning. Not sure if I ever was fully compatible with her expectations though.
> 
> Still not sure why she doesn t want to divorce. Cause of the kids and cause I m a nice guy maybe.
> 
> ...


if you cant even get your wife to take a simple test, then forget about sex. you have much bigger issues.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Here it is:


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Thanks for the long reply Keke24. To answer on some of your questions: 

- not sure what my wife's real preferences are. I should think of how she was at the beginning of our relationship. She recently repeated she thinks of sex as something romantic like in the movies. She wants me to make her day, cook for her, give a massage etc and when she feels like it, then we can have sex. I can tell you: been there, done that. Most of the times at the end of the day she seemed to have had enough of my presence and just felt like sleeping. She still claims I should do as she aks if I want to have sex, but again, most of the times she told I anyway did something wrong.

- I have been a nice guy for years but have changed the last years. Though, it s tough to be no mr nice and but still respect and listen to her. The 180 degree rule suggests to ignore your wife. When I did that she felt hurt but then went her own way. When I then reconnected she was a bit more open for me in a way. But that was it.

- I never blamed everything on her, though she sometimes thinks I do this.

- Not convinced she thinks a lot of this. She seems to be more in her own world, doing the things she likes. That s what makes it difficult for me to understand why she doesnt want to divorce.

- I agree pressure is contraproductive and for sure I should have shut my mouth more often. But, the times I was nice and agreed to put sex aside for a couple of months she was happy not to have to be intime, but it didn't change anything.

Can you tell me why you had to avoid wanting sex?



Keke24 said:


> my LL is physical touch but history had shown that physical touch always transitioned into wanting sex so I had to avoid that; he didn't Kno how it hurt dreading coming home to the possibility of being berated for my lacking interest or feeling coerced into duty sex; where I enjoyed sex off and on before the complaints/pressure compounded, towards the end I had to disassociate during every sexual encounter because the constant complaints gave me zero time to depress and get in the mood.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Keke,
This post is pure gold. The explanation of how he reacted to feedback is completely consistent with what I see here on TAM. 

Very often, suggesting that people either stop crowding, or show backbone is met with an angry ‘refusal to be a jerk’. 

I often tell folks that radiating more love than their partner is comfortable with is selfish and destructive, and that emotionally crowding someone is a nearly universal turn OFF. 

But in many cases they seem unable to accept the truth of that. 




Keke24 said:


> OP, what are the differences between you/your wife's preferred frequency? You state very clearly that your wife wasn't very keen on sex before you which suggests that your wife may be naturally LD. In her mind, this is who she is. I imagine from her perspective it must be difficult to deal with your partner repeatedly insinuating that something is wrong with you because you don't have a strong interest in sex, especially considering this is who you were when you met. In her mind you're trying to change her into someone that she cannot be.
> 
> So while her comments about this situation being a traumatic experience for her may seem farfetched to you, it doesn't hurt to try to understand her perspective. Did you ask her to explain why discussions/disputes make her feel that way? How she'd propose you express your feelings without evoking that level of negativity in her? What you could do to create an environment where she feels more comfortable being sexual? What are her "sex busters"? What has her experience with sex been? How have her perspectives on sex evolved throughout her sexual lifetime? Would she actually like to be having more sex/when she fantasizes about the kind of woman she'd like to be, does she see herself as a more sexual person or not?
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Freetown,

Keke explained in detail what turned her off to her H. You might try reading her post again because I believe the things she described as troublesome would turn most women off. 




Freetown said:


> Thanks for the long reply Keke24. To answer on some of your questions:
> 
> - not sure what my wife's real preferences are. I should think of how she was at the beginning of our relationship. She recently repeated she thinks of sex as something romantic like in the movies. She wants me to make her day, cook for her, give a massage etc and when she feels like it, then we can have sex. I can tell you: been there, done that. Most of the times at the end of the day she seemed to have had enough of my presence and just felt like sleeping. She still claims I should do as she aks if I want to have sex, but again, most of the times she told I anyway did something wrong.
> 
> ...


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Keke,
> This post is pure gold. The explanation of how he reacted to feedback is completely consistent with what I see here on TAM.
> 
> Very often, suggesting that people either stop crowding, or show backbone is met with an angry ‘refusal to be a jerk’.
> ...


Agreed. I was really taken aback by his response, and still so to this day. I wonder if this is a form of black and white thinking. Is it that difficult to comprehend that the majority of the male population fits in in between the two - nice guy and jerk? 

The bolded above is so true and even I'm guilty of it. Hard to admit that it's selfish but you really hit the nail on the head.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> Freetown,
> 
> Keke explained in detail what turned her off to her H. You might try reading her post again because I believe the things she described as troublesome would turn most women off.


Sorry if I gave the impression I ignored Keke's message. I really appreciate the story she shared and do get the picture.

It's just that I believe I did put a lot of effort to change myself, including consulting a therapist (still doing so), taking meds, giving my wife more space, reading and re-reading books as No More Mr Nice Guy, The Married Man Sex Life Primer, Mating in captivity, How to be a 3% man, Avoidant, how to love a dismissive partner, She comes First, Hold me tight and Getting the love you want. I admit there is still room for improvement on my side, but after all these efforts from my side I feel desperate and still don't get the clue if this can be fixed and why on the one hand my wife doesn't want to divorce but on the other hand she doesn't really want me. I think her being partly dismissive avoidant isn't helping.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

KeKe24 ...... as above stated .....that was pure gold. So very well done. I usually suffer long post... but you had me at OP.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I think you failed to understand those books.

You do not mope and whine and try to get her to change. You accept she is who she is. Then you chose to either live with that happily, or move on amicably.

Either learn, within yourself, to be content with your lot in life, or file for divorce. You do not need her to want divorce.

If you understood those books, you should understand that. Your marriage is a partnership you chose to be a part of. She is not holding you hostage.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> I think you failed to understand those books.
> 
> You do not mope and whine and try to get her to change. You accept she is who she is. Then you chose to either live with that happily, or move on amicably.


I see your point, but as explained earlier, each of those books only capture a part of the picture. I don't want to just stick to the ideas presented in one book if part of the solution may be given in another book. Since I don't want to accept a life without passion I think I'll have to move on, but I just want to be sure I 've tried everything I could. There is a big opportunity cost in leaving this relationship. And next to that, the fact I still don't understand my wife's motivation triggers me to continue looking for answers and solutions.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I suppose the fact I have not read those books does afford me a broader view. I spent years training myself to accept my wife as she is. With years of philosophy, psychiatric help, and so much other study I often forget much of it.

However, my wife's issues are not the same as most.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> I spent years training myself to accept my wife as she is.


I understand. Respect for that! I'm seeing a therapist and he motivates me to go and search for what I want in life, my passions and my drives. I respect each others personal decisions, but I just want to live, to listen to the music I like, to be able to say that I adore leatherlook pants on women etc, and to have a satisfactory sex life. Again, with regards to the latter, since my wife passionately kissed me after some glasses of alcohol, I thought it could be worth looking for shortcuts in this area.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

She needs to want to find why she is repressed. No shortcuts available. If she wants to open up, it would still take years.

Even after my wife started therapy it took 8 years to find a resolution which solved some of her issues.

My wife is mentally ill. That's the hard part, the part I had to learn to accept. She can never be cured of some things, but other things were addressed.

What comes to mind is the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for." 

It was discovered my wife is bisexual and had been tortured as a pre-teen to dissuade her from thinking about sex. After her memories were dredged back up she was on fire to experience her lesbian side. Our sex life had been great, but since then it has been a totally new world. Her libido went sky high. She was trying to make up for lost time, I guess.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Freetown said:


> ...I feel desperate and still don't get the clue if this can be fixed and why on the one hand my wife doesn't want to divorce but on the other hand she doesn't really want me.



OP, I guess I just don't understand. You've mentioned several times now that you don't understand why she doesn't want a divorce. Why not file for divorce yourself, as you are clearly unhappy? Are you in a jurisdiction where both partners must agree to the divorce before you can even file? 

Or does your ego need her to be the one to file for divorce you so that you can keep being the good guy who's been victimized by his terrible, frigid, wife?


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Rowan said:


> You've mentioned several times now that you don't understand why she doesn't want a divorce. Why not file for divorce yourself, as you are clearly unhappy? Are you in a jurisdiction where both partners must agree to the divorce before you can even file?
> Or does your ego need her to be the one to file for divorce you so that you can keep being the good guy who's been victimized by his terrible, frigid, wife?


No, that's not it. I think I need to be a Not so Nice Guy for a longer period to be sure my wife really doesn t want me. 

Next, it's not about the fact that she doesn't want to divorce, but about her not wanting to divorce but not really wanting me either nor wanting to invest in the relationship. Maybe she s just using me as a kind of nanny whilst doing what she wants to do.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Freetown,

The impact of reading a book is mostly determined by three factors:
1. The quality of the advice (you are reading some very good books - so in this case the quality is high)
2. Your comprehension of the concepts 
3. The degree to which your traits enable you to implement the ideas that you understood from (2) above

Traits are powerful and often become the primary gating factor for folks trying to change their marital dynamic. 

But I somewhat question how much you are getting from reading these books - given that many of them deal with the type of complaints one poster on this thread described. She did an excellent job of laying out a broken dynamic. After which you asked her: But why didn’t you want to have sex with him?

If that is how you react to your wife - not really making much effort to understand what she’s telling you - or discarding the feedback simply because you dislike it - that is very destructive. 





Freetown said:


> No, that's not it. I think I need to be a Not so Nice Guy for a longer period to be sure my wife really doesn t want me.
> 
> Next, it's not about the fact that she doesn't want to divorce, but about her not wanting to divorce but not really wanting me either nor wanting to invest in the relationship. Maybe she s just using me as a kind of nanny whilst doing what she wants to do.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Keke,

These situations come up and then the real question becomes: What happens after you provide honest, constructive feedback?

Once - maybe 10 years ago - M2 complained I was crowding her. I immediately understood what she meant. And it was obvious that it was causing her distress. I knew what to do to prevent that reaction - and did it. 

Once - 27 years ago - she bitterly complained about me groping her - so I stopped. I decoupled touch from sex. Huge positive step. 

When guys say: my wife dislikes being touched I always wonder if they are doing what I used to do. 




Keke24 said:


> OP, what are the differences between you/your wife's preferred frequency? You state very clearly that your wife wasn't very keen on sex before you which suggests that your wife may be naturally LD. In her mind, this is who she is. I imagine from her perspective it must be difficult to deal with your partner repeatedly insinuating that something is wrong with you because you don't have a strong interest in sex, especially considering this is who you were when you met. In her mind you're trying to change her into someone that she cannot be.
> 
> So while her comments about this situation being a traumatic experience for her may seem farfetched to you, it doesn't hurt to try to understand her perspective. Did you ask her to explain why discussions/disputes make her feel that way? How she'd propose you express your feelings without evoking that level of negativity in her? What you could do to create an environment where she feels more comfortable being sexual? What are her "sex busters"? What has her experience with sex been? How have her perspectives on sex evolved throughout her sexual lifetime? Would she actually like to be having more sex/when she fantasizes about the kind of woman she'd like to be, does she see herself as a more sexual person or not?
> 
> ...


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

MEM2020 said:


> Freetown,
> 
> The impact of reading a book is mostly determined by three factors:
> 1. The quality of the advice (you are reading some very good books - so in this case the quality is high)
> ...


Hi MEM2020, thanks for your feedback. You are right about point 3. 
Do I put a lot of effort: yes, 
Am I focused on shortcuts and quick wins: yes.

I will think about what I really want and where I am now with regards to the traits. 

Right now I would say that I ve tried so many things, but I was always disappointed by the outcome. In a way I thought my wifes dismissive avoidant attitude is a blocking factor (which is the theory of the book How to love or leave a dismissive partner). 
But most likely I never went far enough. Even though I m less clingy now I m still too much of a nice guy with a lot of expectations and on the other hand have difficulties in leaving my wife.

My wife once bought a sex game, and I was really happy. The winner of the game could choose what to do afterwards, according to his/her sexual fantasie. My wife won and she chose to go and sleep. I was really disappointed to hear that was her ultimate sexual fantasie.

Was my reaction a selfish reaction, yes, but I really felt disappointed. I put so many effort in this relationship and did my best to show my wife how much I love her. It was so frustrating.

Was this a constructive reaction: no. Have we ever played the game again: no.

I get your point. It s just not easy.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Freetown said:


> My wife once bought a sex game, and I was really happy. The winner of the game could choose what to do afterwards, according to his/her sexual fantasie. My wife won and she chose to go and sleep. I was really disappointed to hear that was her ultimate sexual fantasie.
> 
> Was my reaction a selfish reaction, yes, but I really felt disappointed. I put so many effort in this relationship and did my best to show my wife how much I love her. It was so frustrating.
> 
> Was this a constructive reaction: no. Have we ever played the game again: no.


She bought the game?

She suggested you two play the game the first time, together?

*Why haven't you two played the game together again?*

She gave you a perfect opportunity to ravish her. You might have won! She may have been waiting for you to suggest it the next night, and was hoping you might win some night, and do what you want to do to her.

I hope you did not let the fact she chose to fall asleep as her reward put you off suggesting playing the game again. 

A response like that on your part would prove you are not the man she wants.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> She gave you a perfect opportunity to ravish her. You might have won! She may have been waiting for you to suggest it the next night, and was hoping you might win some night, and do what you want to do to her.
> 
> I hope you did not let the fact she chose to fall asleep as her reward put you off suggesting playing the game again.
> 
> A response like that on your part would prove you are not the man she wants.


You may be right, though it's a bit more complicated. She offered the game but when we played it she didn't want to do all of the things that were written on the cards she picked. Then, some she did in a technical way (I mean without passion). 
In general, she doesn't like it when I'm too passionate and she often gives technical orders (leg more to the left, continue, finish). 

Not sure why we exactly we haven't played it a second time. Sure we fighted on this topic again, but not sure why.

As said, my wife is somewhat dismissive avoidant. No passionate kissing, no real intimacy. I see the point that I should try to convince her to be more open, but too often she leaves me frustrated. I'll have to make up my mind and decide to which point I can take it and then just go for it.

I once made the comparison with an sportman craving to share his passion with his wife. She doesn t like sport at all but agreed to join him on a sportweekend since her husband has always been joining her when they went on citytrips, something she really likes. The man is really looking forward to that weekend with his wife.
When they arrive at the hotel, the man explains the planning of the day to his wife. The wife reacts and says she s fine with the walk but instead of the 7 miles she prefers to go for a shorter walk so that she can go and sit at the pool to continue reading in her book. This pisses of her husband and he deciced to go without his wife.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Freetown said:


> My wife once bought a sex game, and I was really happy. The winner of the game could choose what to do afterwards, according to his/her sexual fantasie. My wife won and she chose to go and sleep. I was really disappointed to hear that was her ultimate sexual fantasie.


This is well past the abilities of DIY fixing and most likely past the ability of most vanilla therapists.

This is intentional, and for purposes unknown...

Unless you can figure out why, you're pushing on a rope.

Been there.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

john117 said:


> Been there.


Can you tell me what the outcome was? Did that person change?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Freetown said:


> Can you tell me what the outcome was? Did that person change?


Long story - very long - and despite many approaches, DIY books, forums, and professional intervention it took president Trump to get us separated . 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showthread.php?t=405754

If your wife unknowingly does not prioritize intimacy it may be fixed but if she's intentionally doing it, I doubt it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

john117 said:


> Freetown said:
> 
> 
> > My wife once bought a sex game, and I was really happy. The winner of the game could choose what to do afterwards, according to his/her sexual fantasie. My wife won and she chose to go and sleep. I was really disappointed to hear that was her ultimate sexual fantasie.
> ...


I agree, because the thing is, going to sleep isn't a SEXUAL FANTASY, so it doesn't even make sense. 

It's kind of like if she won a prize to get any dish she wants made and served to her by the head chef in a restaurant and she replied, she chooses to sit at her table and sing a song instead.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You two have such a poor dynamic I can't see where there is to go.

My sex life with my wife consists of two parts, before and after her therapy made a change in her.

Mary is responsive, and does not believe in initiating. She told me once the way a woman seduces a man is to look him in the eye and bat her eyelashes. Maybe blow him a kiss. It is 100% on the man to do everything for sex. All planning and execution. Every time. She is along for the ride.

Personally I think that is fine, and our sex life was always fine. We had sex almost every day.

After her therapy changed her, her libido went through the roof. But the only difference it really made is she could finally feel free to masturbate. She bought vibrators (Yes, she had to get my permission to spend the money, but that is a money issue) and she masturbates often. She doesn't ask for sex, but she cuddles up to me and starts reading her book and masturbating. I see that as being extraordinarily sexy. 

Please feel free to ignore my wife's comments. Please remember she is pretty weird, and I think she may be wrong. I suggest you don't try anything on your wife that Mary suggests. But Mary is far smarter than most people, and has spent years and years going over God knows what with her shrinks, all of it related to sex.

Maybe let your wife read what Mary says, and let your wife comment to you.

Mary says your wife is probably responsive, like Mary. Mary suggests your wife is sick and tired of you refusing to be the man, and step up and take on 100% responsibility for sex. Mary says if you aren't ready to do that you should let your wife go find a real man who can feel secure in doing that, so she can finally relax.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Mary says your wife is probably responsive, like Mary. Mary suggests your wife is sick and tired of you refusing to be the man, and step up and take on 100% responsibility for sex. Mary says if you aren't ready to do that you should let your wife go find a real man who can feel secure in doing that, so she can finally relax.


I believe Mary is right, except my wife doesn t give me this authority and looks down on me too much. And my gosh if I kiss her little outside her lips and so on.

She once was in love with a high flyer. They never started a relationship, but she looked up on him for years. In a way I do believe she wouldn t mind having the dirtiest sex with that guy. Unfortunately, I m not such a high flyer and even with more alpha I ll still be a modest guy.

In that view I don t understand why she wants to stay with me while still looking down on me. She has said on several occasions she wants me to grow and become a better person. I m fine with that but she has to accept I m not Elon musk and I ll never be.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

john117 said:


> Long story - very long - and despite many approaches, DIY books, forums, and professional intervention it took president Trump to get us separated .
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/showthread.php?t=405754
> 
> If your wife unknowingly does not prioritize intimacy it may be fixed but if she's intentionally doing it, I doubt it.


Thanks for sharing this. I haven't read all of it but at least the introduction has some similarities. I'll check the asperger aspect. Don't want to make any conclusions now, but it could lead to something.

People with Asperger’s syndrome do not possess “Theory of Mind” abilities, which means they aren’t able to recognize and understand the thoughts, beliefs, desires and intentions of other people in order to make sense of their behavior. The result is a person who is “mindblind,” which means blindness to another person’s needs, feelings and desires. This adversely affects the important quality of empathy, which is vital to a successful and fulfilling relationship. People involved in relationships with a mindblind partner report feeling invalidated, unsupported, unheard, unknown and uncared for. 
Source: HOW TO SPOT ASPERGER?S SYNDROME @ Heartless Aspergers


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You never need to be Elon Musk. You never need to be any celebrity. That is defeatist thinking.

Celebrities are by and large just normal people, anyway. But the truth is you should not compare yourself to some idolized fantasyland image. There is no Elon Musk as you see him.

The real guy is just some smelly guy full of insecurities who may not be able to keep a gal happy. He is an irrelevancy.

Same for John Wayne and Sean Connery, two of the guys my wife likes to mention.

They are just guys. I don't worry one bit about trying to be like them. I know I am better than them. I don't need to know what metric to measure on, I just am better. It is pure self esteem. It oozes from every pore on my body. Conceit. That's how I roll. Pure self confidence.

Besides which, does your wife actually know Elon Musk? Has she had the chance to have sex with him? You know, if she did, she might end up with a disease? Who knows where his little **** has been!

Don't idolize other men. That is weak. Other men are just other men. They are no better than you. 

Anyway, we do wish you luck. I am afraid it would take a lot of change on your part, and then you would have to take a long time to convince your wife you are different. Time you likely don't want to take.

The biggest pitfall men seem to fall into when they try to act more like powerful men is becoming aggressive. That is never considered strength. Never attempt to force your will on your wife, or get her to do something you want that she is reluctant to do. I have read of men who think becoming a real man means they need to prove it by making their wife obey. No, that is not being a real man.

Being a real man means caring deeply about what your wife needs.

I don't know what you can do, you two are so far out of synch.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Freetown said:


> I believe Mary is right, except my wife doesn t give me this authority and looks down on me too much. And my gosh if I kiss her little outside her lips and so on.
> 
> She once was in love with a high flyer. They never started a relationship, but she looked up on him for years. In a way I do believe she wouldn t mind having the dirtiest sex with that guy. Unfortunately, I m not such a high flyer and even with more alpha I ll still be a modest guy.
> 
> In that view I don t understand why she wants to stay with me while still looking down on me. She has said on several occasions she wants me to grow and become a better person. I m fine with that but she has to accept I m not Elon musk and I ll never be.


why do you measure yourself by what your wife's thoughts and actions are?


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> You never need to be Elon Musk.


You're right about not having to be like a superhero.

Elon Musk was just an example, since he looks like a successful intelligent man. The man my wife fell in love with was a good listener, but had a bigger personality, fully confident, more successful, ... According to her he's a man that could take the lead etc. However, I doubt whether in the end she would agree with all of his decisions.

My wife earns 3 times as much as I do. She's much more focused on performance and success, so I believe it's anyway hard to meet her standards. 

BTW: I've double checked the asperger thing. She's not, since she can be very empathic and can connect very well. Though she is gifted and focused on reasoning and intellect. That plays a big role in her life.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Freetown said:


> I believe Mary is right, except my wife doesn t give me this authority and looks down on me too much. And my gosh if I kiss her little outside her lips and so on.
> 
> She once was in love with a high flyer. They never started a relationship, but she looked up on him for years. In a way I do believe she wouldn t mind having the dirtiest sex with that guy. Unfortunately, I m not such a high flyer and even with more alpha I ll still be a modest guy.
> 
> In that view I don t understand why she wants to stay with me while still looking down on me. She has said on several occasions she wants me to grow and become a better person. I m fine with that but she has to accept I m not Elon musk and I ll never be.


Your wife's situation is textbook case "Lover/Provider".

Her lover, the high-flyer, got the admiration and (as you inferred) probably got some crazy nasty sex to go along with it. What did she not get? A relationship. That has probably stuck with her for YEARS.

Why does she stay with you? Comfort. Reliability. Social pressure. 

With all that being said... boy do you sound passive and defeated. *"I don't understand why she wants to be with me."* Well, that's sad. More importantly, why do you want to be with someone with such obvious disdain for you? Do you enjoy the negative attention? Do you like playing victim? 

She's bluntly told you she wants to see more initative out of you. You're offended by that and think she should just accept you as you are. No... it doesn't work that way. She "deserves" high-flyer + a comfortable relationship. If she doesn't get that dynamic from just you, she will get it out of you PLUS somebody else.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Freetown said:


> You're right about not having to be like a superhero.
> 
> Elon Musk was just an example, since he looks like a successful intelligent man. The man my wife fell in love with was a good listener, but had a bigger personality, fully confident, more successful, ... According to her he's a man that could take the lead etc. However, I doubt whether in the end she would agree with all of his decisions.
> 
> ...


every time i see this, it is a bad omen. not because the wife loses respect for her husband, but because the husband stops acting as if he deserves respect. which, of course, causes his wife to lose respect for him.

is this going on in your marriage?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Mary threw up her hands and stormed off.

She says you are pathetic, and she can't believe your wife ever lets you touch her.

Her opinion has nothing to do with how much money you make.

Please excuse Mary. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. I do so only in the hope you realize you need to step out of the shadows. 

You have no self esteem at all. No idea why. If you ever had any or not. You don't have any now.

You need counseling to help you find yourself, so you can realize your own value is inside you.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

WilliamM said:


> Mary threw up her hands and stormed off.
> 
> She says you are pathetic, and she can't believe your wife ever lets you touch her.
> 
> ...


i have seen this very thing happen with several men when their wives end up making more money than them...

it doesn't make any sense to me. the husbands all started acting like they didn't matter any more. i guess that is the problem with tying "man" to "breadwinner". 

a man is anything he chooses to be...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Indeed.

You want a book that will turn your wife into a sex goddess.

Screw that.

You first need to turn yourself into a man who deserves a sex goddess.

Then the book won’t be necessary.

(And I echo the statement that this isn’t about who makes more money)


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

there is a couple that i know where the wife makes substantially more money than the husband does, but they have been happily married and going strong for years like this. 

in this case, the husband told his wife that he wanted to work with a particular group to basically do something akin to what the peace corps does, except that he is anything but a conscientious objector. he worked for years to pay for his wife to go through medical school, and is now gone for about half the year, building wells in places where the locals have no water, building schools and getting them internet access, training communities to defend themselves against would-be warlords, etc. 

his wife makes about three times as much as he does, though he could make a lot more than her if he wanted to. 

he never lost respect for himself. he is living his dream, and if his wife decides to leave him, he will continue living his dream.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

As'laDain said:


> i have seen this very thing happen with several men when their wives end up making more money than them...
> 
> it doesn't make any sense to me. the husbands all started acting like they didn't matter any more. i guess that is the problem with tying "man" to "breadwinner".
> 
> a man is anything he chooses to be...


I don't know any couples where the guy makes less money than his wife, but I can believe it. Humans, bah.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

It s not only about the salary. I surely lacked confidence when I met my wife. She was a strong person and I admired her for what she had realised. I was a good listener and she appreciated me being there for her. We connected, but there still was an inequality.

Since she is more successful and me being humble I agreed on some of the topics I had to improve. I want to evolve in life as well. But wat I didn t like was that she seemed not to fully love me for who I was but for the attention she got from me. She said that I need to improve on some points if I wanted to become really attractive to her.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Well, she is much nicer than my wife. My wife would never speak up to me about it before she was done with therapy, after more than 18 years of marriage. Then the only things she said was the occasional item like she expected me to be a mind reader.

Her comments on the threads on this site are by far the most I have heard out of Mary, over the last year I have been reading here, in our 44 years of marriage.

So the fact your wife was willing to tell you something, anything, means you have something to work with.

Maybe a shrink can help you.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Freetown said:


> It s not only about the salary. I surely lacked confidence when I met my wife. She was a strong person and I admired her for what she had realised. I was a good listener and she appreciated me being there for her. We connected, but there still was an inequality.
> 
> Since she is more successful and me being humble I agreed on some of the topics I had to improve. I want to evolve in life as well. But wat I didn t like was that she seemed not to fully love me for who I was but for the attention she got from me. She said that I need to improve on some points if I wanted to become really attractive to her.


so, your wife has already told you how to be more attractive to her. 

what the hell do you need the book for then?


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

As'laDain said:


> so, your wife has already told you how to be more attractive to her.
> what the hell do you need the book for then?


Because it seems it's never good enough for her.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Freetown said:


> Because it seems it's never good enough for her.


then you aren't good enough for her. 

so move on.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Elon who?

My role model is Sir Jony Ive....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ive


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Freetown said:


> I'm not a newbie here and I know there are no magic bullets to improve a sexless mariage. I ve already read the No More Mr Nice Guy theories and am convinced my lack of alpha wasn t really helpful.
> 
> However, I ve noticed my wife can be way less inhibited after some glasses of wine and even though it's often explained that "pressure" won t help to enhance the SO's sex drive I was wondering if anyone could suggest some books that could help my wife to open up for sex.
> 
> ...




- Have your lady go to the gym and take mild steroids / testosterone. Guarantee you she will get a high sex drive. No, she won't turn into a man but she will tone up, gain some muscle mass and lose fat. I've read this many times over.....


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> - Have your lady go to the gym and take mild steroids / testosterone. Guarantee you she will get a high sex drive. No, she won't turn into a man but she will tone up, gain some muscle mass and lose fat. I've read this many times over.....


Pfeh. S-wife is building a six pack according to my younger daughter who visits. She's pumping iron like Sigourney Weaver in the Aliens movies. She's incredibly fit for a 30 year old let alone 58. A lot of good that did.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Freetown said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not a newbie here and I know there are no magic bullets to improve a sexless mariage. I ve already read the No More Mr Nice Guy theories and am convinced my lack of alpha wasn t really helpful.
> ...


I'm really really really not trying be jerky here, but why on Earth do you think OP would be able to get his wife to do this? Have you gotten your wife to do this? Does your wife go to the gym and take steroids/testosterone?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> - Have your lady go to the gym and take mild steroids / testosterone. Guarantee you she will get a high sex drive. No, she won't turn into a man but she will tone up, gain some muscle mass and lose fat. I've read this many times over.....


I actually have a bit of a hormone imbalance and it favors testosterone. I am HD. However, that doesn't matter if I am not attracted. I still want sex, badly. I just don't want to have it with someone I'm not into.

If anyone is interested in my $.02, I think @Freetown 's wife has a certain type. She fell for that type once, as has been mentioned here, and was unable to make a relationship with him. So, she settled for Freetown. She saw potential and thought she could turn him into a man she actually wants. She's even told him what he needs to do. The problem is that he isn't that kind of guy by nature and she isn't actually attracted to him.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

john117 said:


> Pfeh. S-wife is building a six pack according to my younger daughter who visits. She's pumping iron like Sigourney Weaver in the Aliens movies. She's incredibly fit for a 30 year old let alone 58. A lot of good that did.


Badass _and _compassionate. What a combo.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

WilliamM said:


> She bought the game?
> 
> She suggested you two play the game the first time, together?
> 
> ...


Her reaction would tell me the feeling was mutual.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

john117 said:


> Pfeh. S-wife is building a six pack according to my younger daughter who visits. She's pumping iron like Sigourney Weaver in the Aliens movies. She's incredibly fit for a 30 year old let alone 58. A lot of good that did.



- Sigourney Weaver is one of my fav female actresses.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I'm really really really not trying be jerky here, but why on Earth do you think OP would be able to get his wife to do this? Have you gotten your wife to do this? Does your wife go to the gym and take steroids/testosterone?



- no offense taken.


- I've read many stories of women who weight trained with cardio, took mild steroids and that increased their testosterone and sex drives a lot. Stories of those ladies who wanted sex every day is common.


- If going to the gym to weight train, do cardio, eat healthy and take minor steroids gets you in great shape and with a sex drive, makes sense to give it a try. Only positive results.


- If doing this is a bad thing, I guess being fat, eating not that great and having a low sex drive is the best thing since sliced bread.:grin2:


- If guys can do this, so can the ladies. Equals.


- Do you want to take care of yourself is the real question?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Badass _and _compassionate. What a combo.



She rocks for her time.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> I actually have a bit of a hormone imbalance and it favors testosterone. I am HD. However, that doesn't matter if I am not attracted. I still want sex, badly. I just don't want to have it with not with someone I'm not into.
> 
> If anyone is interested in my $.02, I think @Freetown 's wife has a certain type. She fell for that type once, as has been mentioned here, and was unable to make a relationship with him. So, she settled for Freetown. She saw potential and thought she could turn him into a man she actually wants. She's even told him what he needs to do. The problem is that he isn't that kind of guy by nature and she isn't actually attracted to him.



- Aaaaaah, I see.


- If we could only find the secret to having a high sex drive........besides supplements, weight training, etc.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> If anyone is interested in my $.02, I think @Freetown 's wife has a certain type. She fell for that type once, as has been mentioned here, and was unable to make a relationship with him. So, she settled for Freetown. She saw potential and thought she could turn him into a man she actually wants. She's even told him what he needs to do. The problem is that he isn't that kind of guy by nature and she isn't actually attracted to him.


There s a lot of relevant things that have been said here, and I ll go through the posts a couple of times to try to capture all of it. I know for sure I ll have to stand up more for who I am. I already did this, but clearly not enough.

With regards to MJJEANs comments: of course the truth is more complex, and it s dangerous to stick to simplified views, but I believe that what you re saying is right. My wife said to me that since it s not likely she ll meet another man in time, if she would like to have another child she would have to get one with me. 

She says she really loves me but I ll ask her whether that s not the kind of love you could have with a very good roommate with whom you ve shared a lot of important and beautiful moments.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> - Aaaaaah, I see.
> 
> 
> - If we could only find the secret to having a high sex drive........besides supplements, weight training, etc.


I think this is one of those cases where most women are different from most men. Most men, if they're horny enough, will have sex with a woman they aren't really attracted to. As long as she's decently formed, has a pleasant enough personality, and practices good hygiene... well, good to go. Most women, on the other hand, won't have sex with a man they aren't really attracted to even if they're horny as hell.



Freetown said:


> There s a lot of relevant things that have been said here, and I ll go through the posts a couple of times to try to capture all of it. I know for sure I ll have to stand up more for who I am. I already did this, but clearly not enough.
> 
> With regards to MJJEANs comments: of course the truth is more complex, and it s dangerous to stick to simplified views, but I believe that what you re saying is right. My wife said to me that since it s not likely she ll meet another man in time, if she would like to have another child she would have to get one with me.
> 
> She says she really loves me but I ll ask her whether that s not the kind of love you could have with a very good roommate with whom you ve shared a lot of important and beautiful moments.


You said she's cerebral in her approach. That she's reason and logic oriented. Instead of waiting for someone she is physically attracted to and otherwise compatible with, she may have chosen to find someone she is otherwise compatible with and turn him into someone she is attracted to. Or she may have decided that attraction isn't that important and that other types of compatibility should take precedent when selecting a mate. 

You've also said she is a control freak. Control freaks have a hard time letting go. Ask me how I know. > For me to let go and be physically passionate and emotionally intimate, I have to be attracted to the man and feel passionately toward him physically, emotionally, and intelectually. A "meh" feeling and I'm more technical than instinctive. I become more goal oriented, more focused on orgasm for me and my partner, as opposed to being in the moment and feeling.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You’ve made some big mistakes. Giving a deadline you didn’t really mean. And then claiming that you waived the deadline because you are a good guy, as opposed to being afraid of being divorced. 

It’s not helpful that you were afraid. Far worse that you claimed you weren’t. 

Fear is generally seen as weakness, lying about being a afraid, makes you look even weaker. 

And that is what this all boils down to, she perceives you as nice but weak. It’s why she told you she imagines herself having a passionate sex life with a different man. 

I’m sure you’ve improved. Thing is, you won’t likely ever be strong enough for her to desire you. 




Freetown said:


> Because it seems it's never good enough for her.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Wicked Loving Lies by Rosemary Rogers.

And if you don't look like the man on the cover then you need to get creative.

Fab Fabio.


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## Get Real (Feb 21, 2018)

I think it is great that you are taking this approach. It would be great if all guys actually tried to undersand women. I will keep checking back for a book. It is important that our kids get started the right way as well and it is not an easy topic to discuss. A book would be great.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Get Real said:


> I think it is great that you are taking this approach. It would be great if all guys actually tried to undersand women. I will keep checking back for a book. It is important that our kids get started the right way as well and it is not an easy topic to discuss. A book would be great.


Wicked Loving Lies is NOT appropriate for the kidlets.


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## Get Real (Feb 21, 2018)

hahaha I will definitely read it first, I will probably read a few suggested here. I would like to see if I agree with what they say. We are all different but at times it seems that we were all the same. 

Have a life, friends you do not need her but she complements you
Give her space
Being nice but not super nice guy that has no self worth
Be a gentleman not overbearing
Be happy with who you are 
Be happy
Not needy
Being successful at something
Have pride
Take your time, read the signs (if you want something meaningful as well)
If she is not passionate about a kiss, wait until she is and ""build from there""
Make her wait until you know she is ready
Be confident
Good communication
Listen to her
We are not mind readers, never assume anything. Men and women speak different languages
Communicate
Do not force things
Do not expect things our of duty
Do not get her drunk and let her know why
She should feel safe 
She should not feel like she has duties.
Be generouse
Speak well of her to others, at times we think we are joking 
Do not overreact to her needs
Take great care of yourself
Surprise her
If she is sick be extra caring
You want to gain her admiration not her pity
Plan fun things, surprise her
Be a man of faith
Be a nice guy to others. 
High values, high morals


I wrote too much but most of this is only early on. Once the relationship has been stablished, it is like a program. Then all you have to do is nourish it. And it will not be hard because the whole things picks up momentum in itself. This is from your view point but she will not stand still. Sorry for the rambling but indeed she needs to admire you. Someone said this in one of the conversations in this thread. Men I am not sure look for that. Like someone else said as well. Use what you learn from the book but listen to her. If she does not like it try something else. Build on things. Listen to her. Discuss videos in where they highlight intimacy problems and discuss them. When someone cheats, when someone has faked a relationship their whole lives... and the good ones too. 

She seems to be totally turned off right now. So if you really want things to work and you think they can. If they ever worked. Take your time and be patient. Give yourself a year and if things are the same. You can trust that you gave it all and I am sure you will be welcomed by someone later.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

Get Real said:


> Take your time and be patient.


Thx for the long reply. I see your point. Being patient is not my best quality, though this thing is already going on for too many years. Wish it was all a lot more simple and easy.


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## Freetown (Oct 19, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Anyway, we do wish you luck. I am afraid it would take a lot of change on your part, and then you would have to take a long time to convince your wife you are different. Time you likely don't want to take.
> 
> The biggest pitfall men seem to fall into when they try to act more like powerful men is becoming aggressive. That is never considered strength. Never attempt to force your will on your wife, or get her to do something you want that she is reluctant to do. I have read of men who think becoming a real man means they need to prove it by making their wife obey. No, that is not being a real man.
> 
> ...


Very good and relevant comments! Thx!


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## Get Real (Feb 21, 2018)

Your case is more common than you think. And women wait a long time or may never really address the issue. I am not sure why. 
What is different is that you truly want to do something about it. This is finally your decision. This is why I think it is important to guide our kids a bit before they jump into what they see on TV and others and try to play out a role that is super fast and is not in touch with reality. Again not trying to say it is like that for everyone but it happens a lot. You are all she needs. she just does not know it entirely. A word of caution, I did hear this happening once where the woman was actually emotionally or physically involved with someone else. 
And it may take a while but the path is enjoyable and once you start seeing that things start to change then it would be simple and easy. It is all about you being the best you, you can be, valuing yourself and making yourself more aware of her to connect with her at a different level. To truly get to know her.


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