# Becoming the man I want to be



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I am reading a book called: Hold On To Your N.U.T.s This stands for your *Non-negotiable Unalterable Terms*. I wanted to start a thread that was focused on me and not so much my W. 

I believe that developing a solid set of N.U.T.s will help provide the direction in my life to live by.

The first step will be determining what thes Non-negotiable Unalterable Terms are.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I welcome anyone that wants to participate in this challenge and help with ideas. The Non-negotiable Terms can be ones that deal with how you handle others as well as Terms for yourself.

Here are some ideas that I have so far:
-I will not be disrespected in my own home.
-I am not ok with dwelling on the past. (meaning apolagize and own up if I make a mistake, but move on after that).
-I will listen, observe and think before I speak.
-I am not ok with acting on on emotion. (Anxiety is not an emotion. It is a place to hide when I don't know how I really feel).
-I refuse to take others problems on as my responsibility. (no more fixing others)
-I refuse to apolagize for the behavior of another person.
-I will no longer be talked down to.

Suggestions are welcome in this thread!


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

Jd, I'm having a sort of f'd up afternoon but would like to engage you on this sometime soon. A couple of points, Wayne is a friend of mine, strictly speaking the men's work is supposed to be for you or others that are invested in it and lastly this might have a better home in the Men's sub forum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

How about:

"I refuse to apologize for the behavior of another person"


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> How about:
> 
> "I refuse to apologize for the behavior of another person"


Or, I refuse to take others problems on as my responsibility.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Came up with another relationship one.

I will no longer try to fix my wife.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

My W had to go back to the hospital yesterday and is still there. It looks like during the surgery they either pinched the uretha, or something worse. This is very dangerious. 

Nothing like observing through this. She still doesn't want me there. She said I can come up if it would make me feel better, but she doesn't see the need. It hurts, but it's also very eye opening how important I am to her.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

She came out of the surgery today and is doing a lot better! It's been a very stressful day that's for sure.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I took the girls over to see there mom today and hung out for a couple hours. We have been getting along great and communicating better, but I don't know how, or what to think of this. She tells me stuff like this; I will get the rest of the girls winter clothes figured out this week and get them to you. I said, that's not for another 3 months that we need those. 

How do I take this? Is this a partial test to see how I will handle it? It makes me feel like she never intends on us getting back together. I didn't react this time as I have promised myself to spend the whole month of September just observing.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> My W had to go back to the hospital yesterday and is still there. It looks like during the surgery they either pinched the uretha, or something worse. This is very dangerious.
> 
> Nothing like observing through this. She still doesn't want me there. She said I can come up if it would make me feel better, but she doesn't see the need. It hurts, but it's also very eye opening how important I am to her.


How patronizing.

The hell with the b!tch!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> How patronizing.
> 
> The hell with the b!tch!


I question if R would be anything more then a lifetime sentence. Like I said, I will take the whole month to observe and will post here to see what others think. 

Not caring whether I was there or not this weekend speaks a lot IMO.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I question if R would be anything more then a lifetime sentence. Like I said, I will take the whole month to observe and will post here to see what others think.
> 
> Not caring whether I was there or not this weekend speaks a lot IMO.


She's showing her hand.

I'd file tomorrow.

Seriously.

Part of your NUTS has to be, "I will not be talked down to - even ONE MORE TIME."


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm going to continue what I've done the last week. I haven't called her, texted her, or in this case even showed up to the 2 surgeries. She called me 3 times last night and 4 times this morning. 

I don't think it means she loves me or anything, but I would be interested to see if I could get the ball back in my court a little.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She's showing her hand.
> 
> I'd file tomorrow.
> 
> ...


File because from what I posted over the last 3 months, you see a lfietime of misery? Or file to prove a point that you wouldn't put up with that?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I'm going to continue what I've done the last week. I haven't called her, texted her, or in this case even showed up to the 2 surgeries. She called me 3 times last night and 4 times this morning.
> 
> I don't think it means she loves me or anything, but I would be interested to see if I could get the ball back in my court a little.


Do what you think is right.

I've heard enough.

Does she think she's Princess Diana or something?

She can kiss your ass.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Do what you think is right.
> 
> I've heard enough.
> 
> ...



My worry is that it's possible to R, but you can never change the mindset that she has.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> My worry is that it's possible to R, but you can never change the mindset that she has.


She's just too fabulous for words.


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

Whatever you decide you know you have support here at TAM.
Speaking from experience, no matter how much you think you have had enough, seeing JD vs. Mrs. JD on legal papers is very difficult and brings a whole new set of emotions. So I guess I would just use caution and make sure your ready before you file anything.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

muskrat said:


> Whatever you decide you know you have support here at TAM.
> Speaking from experience, no matter how much you think you have had enough, seeing JD vs. Mrs. JD on legal papers is very difficult and brings a whole new set of emotions. So I guess I would just use caution and make sure your ready before you file anything.


It might wake Mrs. JD up.

Nothing else seems to work.

The hell with the b!tch.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

The thing is, I haven't given as much space as I feel I need to. I'm going to use the whole month of September and if I stay out of the drama triangle for the whole month and don't make any mistakes on my part, then I'll make a better decision. I am still learning and I might as well do it on a failed marriage rather then continue learning with someone else.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> The thing is, I haven't given as much space as I feel I need to. I'm going to use the whole month of September and if I stay out of the drama triangle for the whole month and don't make any mistakes on my part, then I'll make a better decision. I am still learning and I might as well do it on a failed marriage rather then continue learning with someone else.


The space and detachment will work wonders for you. 

I'm still working on it. But I'll tell you, the days that I stay completely disengaged are my best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

spun said:


> The space and detachment will work wonders for you.
> 
> I'm still working on it. But I'll tell you, the days that I stay completely disengaged are my best.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am at her condo now for the first day of school. I don't get upset anymore, I just want to see what happens over the next month.

She has never really asked or needed me to go to the dr's or hospital in the past so I want to keep track of other things and observe for a while.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

muskrat said:


> Whatever you decide you know you have support here at TAM.
> Speaking from experience, no matter how much you think you have had enough, seeing JD vs. Mrs. JD on legal papers is very difficult and brings a whole new set of emotions. So I guess I would just use caution and make sure your ready before you file anything.


I hear you and thanks for the support. I don't want to rush anything, but I do need to do something. I an interested in trying what she dies to me. Never mention anything and don't call. When we do talk or see each other I'll act like nothings wrong like she dies to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Jd

In regards to the winter clothes my W talks like that all the time. I think it is how they stay focussed on what they THINK they want.

From the outside, my W and i have a good chance of R, and she seems to want me around more. But she still plans as if we are never getting back together. She talks about winter clothes and whether Christmas will be at her place or mine etc...

It can be painful but if there is a chance to R, and that is still your goal, then there is no harm in stepping back and having patience.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> The thing is, I haven't given as much space as I feel I need to. I'm going to use the whole month of September and if I stay out of the drama triangle for the whole month and don't make any mistakes on my part, then I'll make a better decision. I am still learning and I might as well do it on a failed marriage rather then continue learning with someone else.


You will hear me advise that very thing to many.

Yet, I despise the patronizing tone of her remarks.

It was like she was speaking to a child.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You will hear me advise that very thing to many.
> 
> Yet, I despise the patronizing tone of her remarks.
> 
> It was like she was speaking to a child.


His W is provably in a similar place to my own. Still thinking it is all his fault for everything that went wrong between them.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> His W is provably in a similar place to my own. Still thinking it is all his fault for everything that went wrong between them.


Neither one of you should tolerate being spoken down to.

"I'm not ok with that language"

"I don't like where this discussion is headed"


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Neither one of you should tolerate being spoken down to.
> 
> "I'm not ok with that language"
> 
> "I don't like where this discussion is headed"



This is my fault. She has talked down to me since we have been married and I have allowed it. I have stopped most of this and I can tell she see's it. Changing something that I allowed for years isn't going to happen instantly.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

One of the biggest hurdles men that find themselves in these circumstances face, is being able to adequately recognize where their relationship truly is.

Particularly defining the necessary point where efforts or attempts to re-establish attraction or set the stage for reconciliation must end ... and where steps to dissolve the relationship must begin.

If there is no wish whatsoever on the part of your partner to interact, and respect left the building long ago ... then it's time to put your NUTS to the test and do the latter.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Neither one of you should tolerate being spoken down to.
> 
> "I'm not ok with that language"
> 
> "I don't like where this discussion is headed"


My W is getting better. But it looks like JD's still has some things to figure out for herself. My W got snappy with me a couple times over the weekend for literally no reason.

But guess what she did? She apologized :what:

My W never apologizes.

JD just keep working on you. And always be kind and respectful to her when you speak. I am seeing small positive changes in my W already, so it is possible the same could happen for yours.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Deejo said:


> One of the biggest hurdles men that find themselves in these circumstances face, is being able to adequately recognize where their relationship truly is.
> 
> Particularly defining the necessary point where efforts or attempts to re-establish attraction or set the stage for reconciliation must end ... and where steps to dissolve the relationship must begin.
> 
> If there is no wish whatsoever on the part of your partner to interact, and respect left the building long ago ... then it's time to put your NUTS to the test and do the latter.



Our counselor told her back 10 weeks ago when she first got extremely sick that she needed to only focus on her health for now. She has to much going on for anything else. 

I am noticing that she seems to be opening up more now, so I want to see if she was simply taking the counselor's advice and is now going to make decisions with whether or not she wants to R. Her best friend was talking to me yesterday and said that she is hearing more comments about R, so we will see.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Our counselor told her back 10 weeks ago when she first got extremely sick that she needed to only focus on her health for now. She has to much going on for anything else.
> 
> I am noticing that she seems to be opening up more now, so I want to see if she was simply taking the counselor's advice and is now going to make decisions with whether or not she wants to R. Her best friend was talking to me yesterday and said that she is hearing more comments about R, so we will see.


Well my W is pretty sick if you noticed my thread. And my W is bewildered that i offered to take care of her. When we spoke about it she said she doesn't deserve my kindness. My response was that just because she is having a hard time with our marriage doesn't mean I stop being her husband.

KILL HER WITH KINDNESS.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Well my W is pretty sick if you noticed my thread. And my W is bewildered that i offered to take care of her. When we spoke about it she said she doesn't deserve my kindness. My response was that just because she is having a hard time with our marriage doesn't mean I stop being her husband.
> 
> KILL HER WITH KINDNESS.


We have to be kind all the time, but it's very difficult drawing the line between kindness and simply being there every time they need us. Just make sure your not only there when she needs help, but also for good times too. 

That's the observation I'm working on right now. When I stop trying to fix the marriage completely and only act with kindness how will she react?


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> We have to be kind all the time, but it's very difficult drawing the line between kindness and simply being there every time they need us. Just make sure your not only there when she needs help, but also for good times too.
> 
> That's the observation I'm working on right now. When I stop trying to fix the marriage completely and only act with kindness how will she react?


At first? Stubborn. She will try harder to push you away because your kindness makes her feel guilty.

Like in my W's case. She knows she did not deserve my help last weekend but I did it anyway.

She was snappy for no reason for 2 days and then apologized. Like I said before, my W does NOT apologize for anything.

And guess what? She asked me if i wanted to hang out tonight.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> At first? Stubborn. She will try harder to push you away because your kindness makes her feel guilty.
> 
> Like in my W's case. She knows she did not deserve my help last weekend but I did it anyway.
> 
> ...


It sounds like very good news! It looks like you guys are doing great!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> At first? Stubborn. She will try harder to push you away because your kindness makes her feel guilty.
> 
> Like in my W's case. She knows she did not deserve my help last weekend but I did it anyway.
> 
> She was snappy for no reason for 2 days and then apologized. Like I said before, my W does NOT apologize for anything.


She does now.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I thought this was funny this morning. I was standing outside the condo and started talking to the neighbor. He said, are you her boyfriend? I said no, her husband. Were separated. He said I'm sorry to hear that, I'll pray for you two. I'm a pastor and a marriage counselor, so I know how difficult it can be.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

It doesn't really change anything, but it's nice to know that she is by a good neighbor that might even provide a little positive support.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Came up with another one! 

I will not let my emotions controll me. I will controll my emotions.


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Came up with another one!
> 
> I will not let my emotions controll me. I will controll my emotions.


This one always kicks my butt!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

muskrat said:


> This one always kicks my butt!


This one will deffinately take some serious self controll!


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

If you find the secret to this, please share!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

muskrat said:


> If you find the secret to this, please share!


So far it has been focusing on your feelings. When they get the strongest, you have to refuse to give in to them. Every time I succeed, it gets a little easier! On the other hand, every time I fail it is a bigger setback.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I took the girls over there on Monday for 2 hours and again tonight for about the same. I don't care if it is giving her the crumbs she needs or not. My girls have been crying because they miss mommy. I wasn't there for us and I think I made it subtly clear. 

When we first separated, I couldn't walk into the place and called it the condo. Now it's her home and I have mine. My oldest showed me there room and it actually made me happy. It is very nice and it is obvious that she spent her time and money to make them comfortable. THEY ARE ALL THAT MATTERS TO ME. 

I am becoming happier everyday and seeing them in a good home when they aren't with me puts a smile on my face


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

muskrat said:


> If you find the secret to this, please share!


'Rat. Pick up a copy of Hold on to your NUTS.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

p.64: Emotions + Insight = Feelings.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I hope everything is going well for you JD. I experienced what I thought was a set back today. My W blew up because I posted on her thread here on TAM.

But this evening she surprised me with a huge hug and an apology (and tears). She is really nervous about her medical testing and doesn't want me to see her go through all this. So far, all the pretesting theories are pretty grim and she is afraid what she has could end up being terminal and doesn't know how to deal with it.

So much back and forth. But you know what? I am going to control my feelings. I am strong. I stood firm with my wife (and vented to Conrad in a PM) today.

I told her I will not run away because I will not leave my partner behind. She is almost bewildered at my dedication to her, and openly acknowledges she does not deserve it.

But even if she hadn't acknowledged anything I have said or done these past few days, I would have been OK with that. You guys (and gals) here on TAM have given me a lot of advice on living for me, and focusing on me.

I am so much better off today than I was a week ago, a month ago, and definitely 2 months ago when my W left.

Sorry for the hijack.

I am glad you find comfort and joy in your children. I get the same experience with my own, and the emptiness of my W not being around has dulled a lot in recent days.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Locke...

You are standing tall.

We all see it.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

Orpheus said:


> p.64: Emotions + Insight = Feelings.


plenty of much needed insight going through this process. was seriously lacking it before. we learn the hard way


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

We had a great time at my brothers wedding! My W and I danced and even though she says one thing she is acting completely different. She says that she will never be able to give herself to me again. She says I'm her best friend (which is something new again), but she would never move back home and take that chance again. She says that she could never be physically close to me again. She won't take that risk.

With all that said, she is slowly acting completely different then those statements. 

Could it be fear that she has? I really believe that she won't admit it, but she is letting her guard down.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I feel like she is feeling like she see's the good me again and is really starting to love me, but she is telling me all of her fears and just testing to see how I will react. Almost like, I'll tell him this and see if he gets angry and says then we should just get a divorce like I did in the past.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I feel like she is feeling like she see's the good me again and is really starting to love me, but she is telling me all of her fears and just testing to see how I will react. Almost like, I'll tell him this and see if he gets angry and says then we should just get a divorce like I did in the past.


That's how it works.

No selling... no convincing... no reacting.

Just listening.

Cool... firm... dispassionate


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

So she is saying the opposite of what she's feeling right?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I've decided that I'm going to try and be as rock solid as a husband can be no matter what she says. I don't believe there is anything that says I love you from a husband like staying strong and showing love and respect even when your getting knifed from your W. (it's how it feels sometimes)

I'm not saying that I won't throw out the "I'm not ok with that", but I'm not going to show anger and make comebacks with hurtful words anymore.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I've decided that I'm going to try and be as rock solid as a husband can be no matter what she says. I don't believe there is anything that says I love you from a husband like staying strong and showing love and respect even when your getting knifed from your W. (it's how it feels sometimes)
> 
> I'm not saying that I won't throw out the "I'm not ok with that", but I'm not going to show anger and make comebacks with hurtful words anymore.


JD. Your clarity is inspiring. I am rooting for you.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Locke, your in the same boat. I really believe your wife is scared of something. No matter how small, or big it is your wife said in her thread that she is tired of taking crap. We can't deny there perceptions. We have to embrace them by working through them. 

I think the most important thing you and I can do is to embrace there feelings and not lowering our values at the same time. We need to learn to not show emotions even if we don't agree with them. Be the same loving person, but not afraid to not be ok with things.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Like Conrad says. Give defiant people what they want. Defiant can also include lost, hurt, confused, etc... Us not giving in to our beliefs and values not only shows them love, but more importantly shows love to ourselves.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I am always floored at the similarity in our Ws. Yes my W is afraid like yours. Some of her fears are clear while some are mysterious.

I am as determined as you to be the best husband I can be and hope that in time my actions will be able to remove her fear and doubt.

Stay strong JD. This is hard.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Yes. This is an excellent chance to learn emotional self control. 

Jd, 
The fact that she called and texted so much is not a promise of recon but does show the power of restraint. I hope you learn to stay calm and collected. When she behaves badly leave and stay gone until she apologizes. If no one else can bring her the kids than you bring them and simply stay out of the room entirely. 

And if you refuse voice to voice and stick with very short text messages, she will have to accept that she has lost control of you and your emotions. 

Fyi: If she sends a bad text message don't respond at all. You are not obligated to even say 'I am not ok with being treated that way', after all silence is the ultimate response.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Yes. This is an excellent chance to learn emotional self control.
> 
> Jd,
> The fact that she called and texted so much is not a promise of recon but does show the power of restraint. I hope you learn to stay calm and collected. When she behaves badly leave and stay gone until she apologizes. If no one else can bring her the kids than you bring them and simply stay out of the room entirely.
> ...




The problem I have right now is that we get along great, however at this time she says she will never put herself in the position to get hurt again. It is basically over according to her because she no longer feels that she could never take that chance again. I told her I no longer love her anymore a couple years ago after weeks of not communicating. It was wrong, but we all make mistakes. I have made other mistakes that she refuses to let go of, so I guess if she feels it's over, then it's over.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Another update:
W and I have been communicating very well. I'm not sure if that is progress though. I still can't get over what she said after the wedding. She said that she would never move back here and would never give me her heart again to be broken. She said we are done, but we can go on being married living in different houses and raising the girls and I would have health insurance.

Here's the thing. She also has made some comments about the future and a friend of hers could take over her condo possibly. She won't move out of the condo unless she moves back here. I don't know if she is confused and scared and just wanted to see how I would react to her saying that or if she really means it.

Anyone ever go through this before? Is it simply fear, or is it reality? I appreciate any feedback!


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

I think it's all fear. She is scared to go back and end up hurt again. She has left the door open though.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I don't know what to do and am praying about it. I feel like I need to continue to show love to her when she opens up and in the meantime force myself to start a new life. I think it will help me gain confidence and show her that I'm still living life rather then living in limbo land. I feel like that's the answer. If she see's me still living and doing it very hapily and successfully it will be the only chance to wake her up. If it doesn't prompt her, then I'll be one step closer to healing and starting a new life.


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

Nothing you do can "wake her up". It is all fear, it all depends if she is strong enough to conquer that fear or not. Mine was to weak and instead of facing her fear and taking a chance on her family she filed for D. Hopefully your w is stronger!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

muskrat said:


> Nothing you do can "wake her up". It is all fear, it all depends if she is strong enough to conquer that fear or not. Mine was to weak and instead of facing her fear and taking a chance on her family she filed for D. Hopefully your w is stronger!


I'm not sure I agree with that Rat. I know there is fear, but they also feel they will always have us if, or whenever they want. That has to be removed somehow, or we will remain in limbo land.


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

Moving on might work for some, however mine filed and me moving on is what she wants.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

muskrat said:


> Moving on might work for some, however mine filed and me moving on is what she wants.


It's what she thinks she wants. Wait until it actually happens and I bet you will see a different side of her.


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

Then it will be to late, won't it?
If this D happens, I will not remarry, especially her.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

muskrat said:


> Then it will be to late, won't it?
> If this D happens, I will not remarry, especially her.


Come on now guys, you will live without your wives if that's the way it goes down.

I am willing to bet that you will find love again one way or the other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

spun said:


> Come on now guys, you will live without your wives if that's the way it goes down.
> 
> I am willing to bet that you will find love again one way or the other.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I never said I wouldn't. I'm the one that fantasizes being with someone that knows how to forgive and wants to share the good times and the BAD with me. I'm sure that's wrong, but I've never felt there is just one person out there I could love, or be in love with. 

My only hangup right now is my commitment to God, my children and this crazy thing they call marriage.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I never said I wouldn't. I'm the one that fantasizes being with someone that knows how to forgive and wants to share the good times and the BAD with me. I'm sure that's wrong, but I've never felt there is just one person out there I could love, or be in love with.
> 
> My only hangup right now is my commitment to God, my children and this crazy thing they call marriage.


If you have done your best, and are truly remorseful for anything you may have done to harm your marriage, then God has already set you free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

spun said:


> If you have done your best, and are truly remorseful for anything you may have done to harm your marriage, then God has already set you free.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I'm pretty close to setting myself free too

This will sound really dumb, but I went through a breakup with a girl I dated from age 14 to age 20. I didn't think I would ever go on living. I thought she was the only thing that could make me happy. 

IT'S JUST NOT TRUE!!

We can be happy if we choose to be. This doesn't mean it's not worth hanging in there and working on our problems. It simply means there is more happiness (and even love) in our future if we so choose.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> And I'm pretty close to setting myself free too
> 
> This will sound really dumb, but I went through a breakup with a girl I dated from age 14 to age 20. I didn't think I would ever go on living. I thought she was the only thing that could make me happy.
> 
> ...


Exactly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

I know I can live without her. My kids and the promise I made on our wedding day are what keeps me in this, however since she filed I'm letting go slowly (I have to face reality).
I also had a ltr that ended and broke my heart, I survived and met the woman who became my w 2 years later. so yes life will go on and I may find love again, it is the loss of my family that is hurting so much. without the kids this would be MUCH easier.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Rat, I hate not having my kids in my home every day too. I have a cousin that is 33 years old and is going to die any day now of cancer that he has fought since he was 30. He says that he can't let go no matter what because all he wants to do is see his 2 little girls grow up. 

God has given us a gift and we have to make the best of it. Life throws crap at us all the time. We have to figure out how to take it and make us stronger men for our children and for God's will.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Another update:
> W and I have been communicating very well. I'm not sure if that is progress though. I still can't get over what she said after the wedding. She said that she would never move back here and would never give me her heart again to be broken. She said we are done, but we can go on being married living in different houses and raising the girls and I would have health insurance.
> 
> Here's the thing. She also has made some comments about the future and a friend of hers could take over her condo possibly. She won't move out of the condo unless she moves back here. I don't know if she is confused and scared and just wanted to see how I would react to her saying that or if she really means it.
> ...


Backing up a little here JD.

My W has said similar things about staying married but remaining separated. It hurts but it is fear I sense in her more than anything. I guess this is normal for WAWs.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Backing up a little here JD.
> 
> My W has said similar things about staying married but remaining separated. It hurts but it is fear I sense in her more than anything. I guess this is normal for WAWs.



I think we have to focus on actions and have patience!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Ok, update. Everything is the same We get along fine, but no changes. She is still struggling with frustrations of not feeling as good as she would like and is getting frustrated with how long the healling is taking. She isn't patient and I think she thought that she would walk out of the hospital and feel great! 

Anyway, Is it a bad idea to keep this going? What I mean is if I continue on with my life (without filing) and give it time to work on myself and not be dependent on her, is this jus stringing on my pain. I really think that we both could use some time and that she still isn't thinking straight about everything. She is still emotional with the loss of her dad. I realized this at my brother's wedding last weekend. When the Dad daughter dance came up, she left the building and went out and sobbed. She said that the pain is just so hard and that she thinks about her dad all the time. I don't want to push, but I don't want to get used either.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You're already being used.

What are you ok with?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I hear you. I'm just not ready to move on yet. I don't know why, but I'm not.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I hear you. I'm just not ready to move on yet. I don't know why, but I'm not.


Ok, let's keep talking.

You know what tipped the scales for me.

"Well, you can come over if it would make you feel better"

This is the way you talk to a 5 year old.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I hear what your saying. I'm not trying to defend her, or make light of it, but I haven't had a good history in hospitals with her. When both our kids were born, I wasn't the most patient person waiting for 15 hours. I think if I remember right I actually got mad at the nurse because it was taking so long. (pretty dumb and immature I know) 

I also question if that was another test after talking to my IC. She thinks she was saying that it is my decision to make if I want to be there with her or not.

Just so confused. I know a lot of it is because I'm in denial and am letting what I want control my thought process.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Wow JD. You and i are a lot alike.

My W us using me big time right now. I know when she gets better she will run back to her paradise of an existence and leave me high and dry. Oh well I guess.

I also have been impatient with my W's medical issues in the past which is why she is so resistent to accepting that what I am doing right now is genuine.

I don't think you are in denial. I think you are not ready to lose hope. Just don't get your hopes up to much and you will be fine.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Wow JD. You and i are a lot alike.
> 
> My W us using me big time right now. I know when she gets better she will run back to her paradise of an existence and leave me high and dry. Oh well I guess.
> 
> ...


At the end of the day, the only ones that will get hurt are us. I'm willing to take the chance of getting hurt right now. I know it's stupid to many, but I'm just not ready. 

I think her simply ignoring me for a couple weeks/months will help on my end even. I refuse to innitiate us doing anything together at this point so we will see what happens. I have a sad feeling that nothing will happen


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> At the end of the day, the only ones that will get hurt are us. I'm willing to take the chance of getting hurt right now. I know it's stupid to many, but I'm just not ready.
> 
> I think her simply ignoring me for a couple weeks/months will help on my end even. I refuse to innitiate us doing anything together at this point so we will see what happens. I have a sad feeling that nothing will happen


If I were you, I'd look for posOM.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If I were you, I'd look for posOM.


I know. Everyone tells me there is none, but I don't think it gets anymore obvious that there is.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I had a little progress today! I just got back from the girls Jazz class and I didn't seem to have any attachment to the W while we were there. I felt nothing. It didn't affect me at all. I know it's just a baby step, but I'll take anything at this point!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I had a little progress today! I just got back from the girls Jazz class and I didn't seem to have any attachment to the W while we were there. I felt nothing. It didn't affect me at all. I know it's just a baby step, but I'll take anything at this point!


Good man. Almost home.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Good man. Almost home.


I'm trying my hardest that's for sure!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jdlash said:


> I hear you. I'm just not ready to move on yet. I don't know why, but I'm not.


Then there is your answer. You don't have to defend it to anyone. What you need to be aware of, is WHY you aren't prepared to move on. And importantly, be prepared to deal with the consequences of that choice.

If you are sticking around to 'work on you' and all the while hoping she will notice and miraculously start meeting your needs as a result ... you will be disappointed and frustrated. 

Which basically means the 'work on you' was never actually for ... you.

If you have already done all this math, then sincerely I wish you the best.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Deej,

I'll vouch for JD.

She's a cake eater.

He sees it.

At regular intervals, she speaks to him like he's 5 years old.

Like most guys, he'd probably be willing to work on things if there was some sort of physical component to the relationship.

But, in their separation, he's being forced to live a monk's life.

That won't last much longer.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Then there is your answer. You don't have to defend it to anyone. What you need to be aware of, is WHY you aren't prepared to move on. And importantly, be prepared to deal with the consequences of that choice.
> 
> If you are sticking around to 'work on you' and all the while hoping she will notice and miraculously start meeting your needs as a result ... you will be disappointed and frustrated.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to work on me for her, but I'm just not emotionally ready to accept that my marriage is over yet. I know it probably is, I'm just not fully ready to accept it.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Deej,
> 
> I'll vouch for JD.
> 
> ...


I do see it, it's just getting it to register to my brain. It's not something I can force myself to do. It will take time. It's only been 14 weeks and I think another 2-4 will really help me a lot.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I asked the stbxw for her address this afternoon and she called me wanting to know why. I told her I need it to file for a D and she was caught between crying and super duper angry at me. I don't really want a D, but she refuses to try anything. I guess her telling me she will never move back home was the end all for me. I can't go on living like this forever and feel that I deserve more out of life. No one should live in limbo land forever. I know it's only been 14 weeks, but that's enough for me.


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## pseudonym (Aug 19, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I asked the stbxw for her address this afternoon and she called me wanting to know why. I told her I need it to file for a D and she was caught between crying and super duper angry at me. I don't really want a D, but she refuses to try anything. I guess her telling me she will never move back home was the end all for me. I can't go on living like this forever and feel that I deserve more out of life. No one should live in limbo land forever. I know it's only been 14 weeks, but that's enough for me.


I haven't followed every single part of your story but why was she angry about it? Isn't that what she wants?


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

I wish I had the courage to do that about a year ago!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

muskrat said:


> I wish I had the courage to do that about a year ago!


I'm not excited about it, but I deserve better out of life. So do you. Do you think you can be all that God wants you to be living the life you are now. I asked myself that question and I feel the answer is no.


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

Nope, I'm a shell of a man right now. We both deserve so much better. We tried to do our best to keep our families together, but with NO help from our wives we are left with little choice but to move on and be the best we can and honor God and our children in the best possible way we can.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I asked the stbxw for her address this afternoon and she called me wanting to know why. I told her I need it to file for a D and she was caught between crying and super duper angry at me. I don't really want a D, but she refuses to try anything. I guess her telling me she will never move back home was the end all for me. I can't go on living like this forever and feel that I deserve more out of life. No one should live in limbo land forever. I know it's only been 14 weeks, but that's enough for me.


Good man.

Now you've given her something to think about.

I trust you were totally calm during the conversation.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Good man.
> 
> Now you've given her something to think about.
> 
> I trust you were totally calm during the conversation.


Now I just need to go dark for a while and allow myself more time to really detach my feelings. None of this is easy or fun that's for sure.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Now I just need to go dark for a while and allow myself more time to really detach my feelings. None of this is easy or fun that's for sure.


I wouldn't say a word.

You have the address.

Do what you must.

Then it's her move.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I hate chess...


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

How are you doing. You have been too quiet. Everything OK?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> How are you doing. You have been too quiet. Everything OK?


I've given up hope. I'm not doing the 180 on her, or anything. We communicate, but no talk about R. I'm working on my business and not worrying about this crap anymore. 

I don't want to be married to someone that doesn't want to be with me. I watched a movie called the bucket list today and it really affirmed that for me. 

Life is so short and dwellling on what is out of my control is foolish. I don't even have the urge (at least for a week now) to discuss our R. 

I want to build my business up, travel with my girls as much as possible and have more fun then I did the last 10 years!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I guess given up hope might not be worded correctly. I've just changed gears to spending my energy on things within my control.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I guess given up hope might not be worded correctly. I've just changed gears to spending my energy on things within my control.


Good man. Wish I was in that mind set...


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Good man. Wish I was in that mind set...


Do you ever feel good after forcing her to talk? When you have something on your mind and tell her, do you ever get the answer you want to hear? Do you feel worse the more you focus on her and R? 

I asked myself this and the answers were simple. I'm not over my W, I'm just over chasing her.

I will always love her, I just hope someday I won't be in love with her


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Do you ever feel good after forcing her to talk? When you have something on your mind and tell her, do you ever get the answer you want to hear? Do you feel worse the more you focus on her and R?
> 
> I asked myself this and the answers were simple. I'm not over my W, I'm just over chasing her.
> 
> I will always love her, I just hope someday I won't be in love with her


That last part is what I have been feeling. Hell, I even told my W a couple of times that this whole thing would be easier if I didn't love her anymore.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> That last part is what I have been feeling. Hell, I even told my W a couple of times that this whole thing would be easier if I didn't love her anymore.



Don't tell her stuff like that anymore. You can think it, but keep it to yourself. Trust me, you will feel better!


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Don't tell her stuff like that anymore. You can think it, but keep it to yourself. Trust me, you will feel better!


Its been a while since I said it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> That last part is what I have been feeling. Hell, I even told my W a couple of times that this whole thing would be easier if I didn't love her anymore.


Locke,

Would you say that's an appeal to victim status?


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Locke,
> 
> Would you say that's an appeal to victim status?


Indeed. Like I said though its been a while.


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## twinmama85 (Sep 23, 2012)

So I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries here, but I too am going through similar situation; except I am the wife and my husband walked out on my twin boys & me. I absolutely refuse to give up hope and to just walk away. My husband has said similar things, I don't think we will work, we didn't do our marriage right, blah blah blah. And any time I would bring up a divorce or a legal separation, he would get that deer in the head light look. Right now he moved about 180 miles away, lives with his dad at the moment and I have the boys almost 100% of the time. I pray constantly and have a female confidant, counselor (to help me cope), and my chaplain (I'm in the AF). I just want to be that person that tells you NOT to give up! Time can be your friend if you let it. I know it sucks, TRUST ME, I know how painful it is to see your spouse living their life like they've moved on, I know how all that feels, but giving up is going to give you more regrets in the end then you realize. If she got cried and got angry when you told her you were filing for divorce, that means she DOESN'T WANT IT. She is just as lost and confused as you are and inadvertently putting you through a test.If you are a man of God, focus on that relationship right now and get it right.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

twinmama85 said:


> So I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries here, but I too am going through similar situation; except I am the wife and my husband walked out on my twin boys & me. I absolutely refuse to give up hope and to just walk away. My husband has said similar things, I don't think we will work, we didn't do our marriage right, blah blah blah. And any time I would bring up a divorce or a legal separation, he would get that deer in the head light look. Right now he moved about 180 miles away, lives with his dad at the moment and I have the boys almost 100% of the time. I pray constantly and have a female confidant, counselor (to help me cope), and my chaplain (I'm in the AF). I just want to be that person that tells you NOT to give up! Time can be your friend if you let it. I know it sucks, TRUST ME, I know how painful it is to see your spouse living their life like they've moved on, I know how all that feels, but giving up is going to give you more regrets in the end then you realize. If she got cried and got angry when you told her you were filing for divorce, that means she DOESN'T WANT IT. She is just as lost and confused as you are and inadvertently putting you through a test.If you are a man of God, focus on that relationship right now and get it right.


I am placing my marriage in God's hands. I pray constantly it seems. I have found over the last 15 weeks that the more I try and the more I push, the further I push her away. I am still friendly and am even working harder at being a better listener when she tells me stuff. (something that I have been bad about) 

I wish you the best of luck as well!


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## twinmama85 (Sep 23, 2012)

That seems to be a common word of advice I get: give them space. Any time I would ever mention divorce or legal separation (especially this one) my husband would come back with a stupid remark. I remember one time we were talking and he was just being cruel and mean and said that only reason he hasn't filed for divorce is because he can't afford. I came back with, I'll pay for it then (stupid I know)and he had that deer in the head light look. He said, you'll pay for it, and I said, yeah, shouldn't be more then $600 in California. Now, to me, if you REALLY wanted to be away and divorce someone, you would find a way to do it, I'm just sayin'


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

twinmama85 said:


> That seems to be a common word of advice I get: give them space. Any time I would ever mention divorce or legal separation (especially this one) my husband would come back with a stupid remark. I remember one time we were talking and he was just being cruel and mean and said that only reason he hasn't filed for divorce is because he can't afford. I came back with, I'll pay for it then (stupid I know)and he had that deer in the head light look. He said, you'll pay for it, and I said, yeah, shouldn't be more then $600 in California. Now, to me, if you REALLY wanted to be away and divorce someone, you would find a way to do it, I'm just sayin'


How long have you been separated?


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## twinmama85 (Sep 23, 2012)

Lets see, back in June husband & I got into a fight and he said he was done, he was tired of my attitude and s**t..I thought he was blowing off steam like usual, he wasn't. After a few days, we saw a chaplain and decided to would work on, saw a chaplain 2more times and then Aug 2nd he completely disengaged himself from me(moved to the spare room, wouldn't look at me, touch me, or anything). Moved out Sept. 2nd and we haven't seen each other in 4 weeks tomorrow.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

There is nothing easy about any of this, but the space is good for both of you. At least your not getting false hope with the breadcrumbs of love that most give.


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## twinmama85 (Sep 23, 2012)

No one gives me breadcrumbs, most want me to file divorce and take him for all he's worth. But I believe God will reconcile us so its mostly dealing with the emotional garbage that I have. e.g, last night his family had a birthday bash for him and his sister (they are 1 yr, 2 days apart) and I swear every single member of his family that I have on facebook decided to share all the wonderful photos and videos of him having a grand ol' time without his sons or myself. I didn't watch the videos, but the pictures are kinda hard to ignore.


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## twinmama85 (Sep 23, 2012)

Thought this link could help you since you are Christian and very young into the separation

Divorce and Separation - Focus on the Family


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Update:
I have pretty much cut off contact with the W unless I need to talk to her about the girls and it has been very quiet. She has made no effort to contact me for anything yet.

It should get interesting to see how she reacts to this though. One of the girls at our daycare has been flirting quite a bit with me and we talked out in the parking lot for about an hour last night. I forgot to grab my youngest's backpack that was on the sidewalk so I called the daycare and asked for her. She went out and got it and delivered it to my house last night. She stuck around and talked for about 2 hours. I'm sure that will be one of the first things my youngest tells mom due to the fact that she loves her teacher and is always talking about her anyway.

I'm sure my W will make a big deal out of it and I think it's pretty entertaining to say the least


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Take her out.

Just explain there's a boundary on physical stuff until you resolve your marital issues legally.

You'll have a blast. It really takes your mind off this stuff.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Just traded the girls with the W and she couldn't get out of here fast enough. She was in such a big hurry that she forgot the girls backpacks for school. Do they really hate us that much, or is it simply a defense mechanism? It sure feels like sticking a knife in my heart either way.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Just traded the girls with the W and she couldn't get out of here fast enough. She was in such a big hurry that she forgot the girls backpacks for school. Do they really hate us that much, or is it simply a defense mechanism? It sure feels like sticking a knife in my heart either way.


Where is your focus?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I've gotten so far out of focus that I'm miserable. I just can't get myself to move on. My counselor and even my mom tells me that by moving on, she will notice and then I can make my mind up. 

My W says that I'm pushing her so much which means that I'm obviously not doing the 180. I look like a damn fool at this time

I feel like one too.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I've gotten so far out of focus that I'm miserable. I just can't get myself to move on. My counselor and even my mom tells me that by moving on, she will notice and then I can make my mind up.
> 
> My W says that I'm pushing her so much which means that I'm obviously not doing the 180. I look like a damn fool at this time
> 
> I feel like one too.


My W has said this so many times. We want to push for answers from them because we want it all to make sense. We want to know where this is going. I know from experience that backing off is easier said than done. You will be going strong for a while ans then you get weak.

It happens.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Update:
> I have pretty much cut off contact with the W unless I need to talk to her about the girls and it has been very quiet. She has made no effort to contact me for anything yet.
> 
> It should get interesting to see how she reacts to this though. One of the girls at our daycare has been flirting quite a bit with me and we talked out in the parking lot for about an hour last night. I forgot to grab my youngest's backpack that was on the sidewalk so I called the daycare and asked for her. She went out and got it and delivered it to my house last night. She stuck around and talked for about 2 hours. I'm sure that will be one of the first things my youngest tells mom due to the fact that she loves her teacher and is always talking about her anyway.
> ...


What ever came of this?

It's clear you want the attention from her, which means you will forever be 'disappointed' with such a focus on her.



jdlash said:


> Just traded the girls with the W and she couldn't get out of here fast enough. She was in such a big hurry that she forgot the girls backpacks for school. *Do they really hate us that much, or is it simply a defense mechanism?* It sure feels like sticking a knife in my heart either way.


Trying to make sense of 'what they are doing and why' also gets you nowhere.

You cannot control the speed in which she comes over and gets the girls.

Would you not be asking 'what the hell, she just hung around making chit chat like nothing was wrong' if she did that too??

Can you see why focusing on her will make you go bonkers no matter what she does?



jdlash said:


> I've gotten so far out of focus that I'm miserable. I just can't get myself to move on. My counselor and even my mom tells me that *by moving on, she will notice and then I can make my mind up. *
> 
> *My W says that I'm pushing her so much* which means that I'm obviously not doing the 180. I look like a damn fool at this time
> 
> I feel like one too.


Anything you say to her that she doesn't agree with, or like challenges her fantasy world.

Of course she would classify that as pushing her away. What else would it be?

If you are trying to move on to 'get her back' then you aren't moving on at all.



Look, my ex came to see the kids on Wed for a few hours. She picked them up from daycare and after 2 hours she came and dropped them off.

What was she doing? Oh, she was talking on her phone the entire damn time. Earbud in one ear, phone in the other.

I fumed on my thread that night, add in the extra "I can't afford daycare" yet it appears she had new highlights and the fact she took the kid out to a restaurant for dinner .. yeah.

Instead of sending her texts, or even commenting on it when we were face to face I came on here, said my piece then e-mailed my attorney instead.

I do not agree with anything she is doing, at the same time I do not even know what she is doing with her time now.

Most likely found someone new or finally got back with whatever long distance thing she had going. Good for that guy, eventually she will be his problem.

I gave myself the night to fume about it and in the morning I tried my hardest to get past it, for the most part I have.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Except I think anyone who "gets past it" is kidding themselves. No one in our shoes truly gets past it, not completely anyway. We just do our best to accept it and move forward. But part of us will always wonder "what if".

Especially if we never see our WAaw's truly take responsibility for any of this. We all have to realize we probably will never get even one ounce of closure.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Except I think anyone who "gets past it" is kidding themselves. No one in our shoes truly gets past it, not completely anyway. We just do our best to accept it and move forward. But part of us will always wonder "what if".
> 
> Especially if we never see our WAaw's truly take responsibility for any of this. We all have to realize we probably will never get even one ounce of closure.


The only reason you would be looking to see if WAW ever took responsibility is for a chance of reconciling eventually.

Because you know, if they take responsibility that must mean they want to get back together.

Although I dislike my workplace, in the last couple months as word got out that I was getting a divorce I have started talking to a few more guys throughout the plant and getting some good advice.

Sadly some of them got screwed over in court, but there are a few so far that are much happier now than they ever were back then. 

Once the dust settles on the court issues and it's all out of the picture, the 'machine' is set and all you do is pay what you need to pay and move on.

Wondering 'what if' means you aren't moving on and are still in denial or under the delusion that eventually it could have worked out.

Oh, if only she did this or I didn't do that.

Doesn't work that way.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

I want my ex to take responsibility so she pays what she is obligated and the kids would be better off that way.

Other than that, I know full well she will never understand why things happened the way they did.

Even if she does, it will most likely be due to repeat problems throughout her life and I do not plan on sitting around wondering 'what if' until that time comes.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Except I think anyone who "gets past it" is kidding themselves. No one in our shoes truly gets past it, not completely anyway. We just do our best to accept it and move forward. But part of us will always wonder "what if".
> 
> Especially if we never see our WAaw's truly take responsibility for any of this. We all have to realize we probably will never get even one ounce of closure.


Deleting threads isn't a very good sign.


----------



## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Deleting threads isn't a very good sign.


Isn't a good sign of what?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Isn't a good sign of what?


Taking accountability.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Taking accountability.


Ah. Well I just think she wasn't prepared for the manner in which people were calling her out.

She wants someone to give her the nice version all gentle and stuff, but that is just not how it works...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Ah. Well I just think she wasn't prepared for the manner in which people were calling her out.
> 
> She wants someone to give her the nice version all gentle and stuff, but that is just not how it works...


Not if you actually want to move forward and confront yourself.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

For real change to happen you aren't going to like what you hear.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

UpnOver said:


> For real change to happen you aren't going to like what you hear.


And real transformation involves actually seeing things you don't like in yourself.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> And real transformation involves actually seeing things you don't like in yourself.


I agree 110%.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I've been thinking about my night out last night and also focusing on myself more. I realize that my whole life I've lacked self confidence. I'm not that guy to go up and make conversation, meet new people, etc... Are there any good books to help with this, or should I find a good counselor? If I could get more confidence in myself and be more outgoing (not the guy that holds back in crowds) I know I would be much happier and wouldn't be so dependent on others for my happiness.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

jd, there are tons of MeetUp type events to meet singles in your area or just meeting "people". churches and social groups are good for this. Toastmasters is sort of good for forced talking amongst strangers. I don't know what you do but you could join whatever your local "professional association" is and go to monthly meetings and force yourself to talk to people.

Aside from real life scenarios, there are a billion dating and mingling books/on tape for how to shore yourself up and not be a wallflower.

or do what i do and drink.

mingling and mixing is a SKILL and not really innate. some people are predisposed to it but anybody can learn it and improve.


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

jd,

a follow-up trick that i developed for myself... i have a terrible memory. and usually go completely blank when nervous. so i developed what i call my "10". I literally have written down on my desktop a list of 10 stories (in each group) about different things in different aspects of my life. And as the months go on, i might swap some out or rewrite them to remember the most funny or interesting way to phrase them.

One of my categories is Cycling, because that's the sporting activity i do the most. So i have a list of 10 best cycling stories. Some day i'll tell you about the time i was almost hit by a house while on a ride.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm starting a small group this Thursday at my church. That will be a good start!


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

being a host (in control of a group) is excellent practice. stay on your feet and always be moving. introduce people to each other and take ownership that people are there because of your program.

remember those feelings and that sense of self when you take it to a different context.

fwiw, volunteering, lodges, speed dating... all of those things can help too.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I got the kids back today and my oldest said that mom is going to have a birthday party for her on Thursday and I can have mine on Saturday. Saturday is her actual birthday and they are with me. We were planning on doing the birthday together.

Anyway, I made the mistake of calling my W right after dropping the girls off for school. I didn't get ahold of her and didn't leave a voicemail. She texted me about 30 minutes later and said what's up? Anything wrong. I said nope. She texted me about an hour later. Was there something you needed? I said nope, I decided it wasn't worth discussing. 2 hours later her-10 minutes after I dropped the girls off there was an issue? I'm not responding. 

I wonder why she won't let this go.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I got the kids back today and my oldest said that mom is going to have a birthday party for her on Thursday and I can have mine on Saturday. Saturday is her actual birthday and they are with me. We were planning on doing the birthday together.
> 
> Anyway, I made the mistake of calling my W right after dropping the girls off for school. I didn't get ahold of her and didn't leave a voicemail. She texted me about 30 minutes later and said what's up? Anything wrong. I said nope. She texted me about an hour later. Was there something you needed? I said nope, I decided it wasn't worth discussing. 2 hours later her-10 minutes after I dropped the girls off there was an issue? I'm not responding.
> 
> I wonder why she won't let this go.


She might not.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

It's like she is trying to pick a fight with me. If she cares so little, why pick a fight?


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> It's like she is trying to pick a fight with me. If she cares so little, why pick a fight?


Because she cares, she just won't admit it. My W has slowly began to admit feelings she hid from me since she left. You know that feeling that they are inhumane to walk away and act like they don't care? Turns out they do.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm ignoring her now. I've had enough.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Because she cares, she just won't admit it. My W has slowly began to admit feelings she hid from me since she left. You know that feeling that they are inhumane to walk away and act like they don't care? Turns out they do.


Amazing what you find out when you stand up to them.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Amazing what you find out when you stand up to them.


I dont think it is because I stood up to my W. I think it is a result of our commincation increasing in frequency and depth. The only thing I really did was I stopped trying to talk about our issues. I allowed her to take the lead with conversational topics and I learned to shut up and listen. Amazing what about impact that had.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I dont think it is because I stood up to my W. I think it is a result of our commincation increasing in frequency and depth. The only thing I really did was I stopped trying to talk about our issues. I allowed her to take the lead with conversational topics and I learned to shut up and listen. Amazing what about impact that had.


And you don't consider that standing up?

To each his own.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I didn't respond to her last text that was picking a fight and she already tried calling me. It's amaizing how they act when the shoe is on the other foot.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I didn't respond to her last text that was picking a fight and she already tried calling me. It's amaizing how they act when the shoe is on the other foot.


Good. This is called standing up and staying strong.

You know what and who she is.

Don't feed into the petty juvenile behavior.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Had a knockout argument on the phone and it ended up with her saying that she is done with my manipulative ways. I'm an emotional abuser and a controll freak. She is going to therapy now and the reason she has shut me off is she doesn't have the strenght to deal with the monster that I am. 

She is seriously helping me with my detachment


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She is closer to wanting you back now than at any point in this process


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

jd,

You know you just reinforced her and proved to her that she is "right" once again, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

When mine said that it was more over then ever before.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Oh, it's very over. I'm going to go to counseling though. My mom is a complete controll freak, so maybe I'm in denial.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She is closer to wanting you back now than at any point in this process


She wants me alright. dead, broke, miserable, etc... Not back though. That's fine. I do have controll issues, but I think she has me categorized as a dangerous person at this point. That's just a joke.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Oh, it's very over. I'm going to go to counseling though. My mom is a complete controll freak, so maybe I'm in denial.


Waking up is a painful process.

You are well on your way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> When mine said that it was more over then ever before.


Do you feel she had any truth to her accusations?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I was reading on borderline and I fit 3 out of the 5 on that too. I guess I'm a worthless piece of ****. I'm so deflated, that I don't even care about being married anymore. 

The only thing I know I'm good at is being a dad and I've still got that so I am as blessed as I need to be.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

spun said:


> Waking up is a painful process.
> 
> You are well on your way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To some sort of mental institute


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

Of course.

Not as cut and dry as she thinks though.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Do you feel she had any truth to her accusations?


Always.

She was part of the dyamic too.

But, focusing on her part is fruitless and will keep you stuck.

Fix yourself. It's your only ticket to freedom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I was reading more on bpd. Can you really diagnose yourself? I seem to fit all the symptoms other then I'm not suicidal and never have been.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

These individuals may show worse performance in unstructured work or school situations. 

That's from a link at mayo clinic. 

That's scary, I'm self employed


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

So you are a mental health professional?

Many people exhibit at least some bpd traits a times.

Does not automatically make you bpd.

Forget a about the labels.

You are seeing yourself now.

Good work.

Now keep you n focus and do what you need to do to get you to a place of happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

spun said:


> So you are a mental health professional?
> 
> Many people exhibit at least some bpd traits a times.
> 
> ...



I agree. I read it and see some very strong traits in some areas though. I guess I'll have to see a specialist.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I want to say something about the whole control issue. First let me say from what I have read I don't hunk you are controlling at all.

When my W still had her thread on TAM she stated at one point that she thinks my problem is that she is finally in control of her life and I don't like it. But that's not true. What I do not like is that her control has negatively impacted my life (both financially, and socially, to say nothing of emotionally) and the lives of our children and she does not care. There is no balance with her level of control. Its all one sided. So for our WAWs to say we are controlling is a bunch of BS. If I was controlling I would have done whatever it took to get her to stop going around posOM, but instead I tried reasoning with her. I never physically interfered in any way, yet I was the controlling one... please.

She was the controlling one. Her comment to me about a year ago was "we messed up but we stopped. We are going to remain friends so get over it or leave."

I guess I should have left.

So don't beat yourself up about being controlling. Its a bunch of BS they drum up to justify tearing our hearts out. Nothing more.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

It's been 4 months now and I am finally starting to feel like I get it. I have focused on her the whole time. I can't change her and at this point all I want is my own happiness. 

I don't have hardly any friends where I live. (100 miles from where I grew up)

I'm joining a mens small group at my church and am nervous for some reason. 

I feel abandoned.

No confidence in myself.

I say that I'm going to get focused on my business and can't seem to get the motivation/focus.

These are a few of the big issues that I'm facing daily.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I want to say something about the whole control issue. First let me say from what I have read I don't hunk you are controlling at all.
> 
> When my W still had her thread on TAM she stated at one point that she thinks my problem is that she is finally in control of her life and I don't like it. But that's not true. What I do not like is that her control has negatively impacted my life (both financially, and socially, to say nothing of emotionally) and the lives of our children and she does not care. There is no balance with her level of control. Its all one sided. So for our WAWs to say we are controlling is a bunch of BS. If I was controlling I would have done whatever it took to get her to stop going around posOM, but instead I tried reasoning with her. I never physically interfered in any way, yet I was the controlling one... please.
> 
> ...


Excuse me while I stand and applaud.

She is WAY out there Locke. It's B.S.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> It's been 4 months now and I am finally starting to feel like I get it. I have focused on her the whole time. I can't change her and at this point all I want is my own happiness.
> 
> I don't have hardly any friends where I live. (100 miles from where I grew up)
> 
> ...


You've only been focusing on "every other twitch" - rather than every single twitch.

I do see a difference in your posts and your outlook.

That men's group is a great idea.

Take your life back JD.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I was reading more on bpd. Can you really diagnose yourself? I seem to fit all the symptoms other then I'm not suicidal and never have been.


spun's on it.

We all have the "symptoms" from time to time.

But, it's when those symptoms dominate your life and outlook. When you simply aren't able to take responsibility for yourself - and you resort to toxic friends and all other sorts of ne'er do wells to justify your bad behavior. We've had an example in this forum recently of that very behavior.

So, think of those symptoms on a continuum.

I'd rate your symptoms in the 3-4 range.

The ideal is ZERO.

It gets debilitating up around 7.5-8.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

What makes a person never content? Feeling flatlined like you just exist? Like all goals and motivation is gone. 

The thing that's bothering me the most is that I've lived in my city for 8 years and don't really have any close friends. Why have I cut myself off from society? 

Deffinately feeling like a real loser right now.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I feel like when I do meet people I have nothing to talk about. It's like I think there's nothing exciting enough in my life to discuss. 

I run and own a successful personal lines insurance agency. How can I do that decent and fail at all this other stuff? I'm so lost right now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I feel like when I do meet people I have nothing to talk about. It's like I think there's nothing exciting enough in my life to discuss.
> 
> I run and own a successful personal lines insurance agency. How can I do that decent and fail at all this other stuff? I'm so lost right now.


Ask questions about them.

People love to talk about themselves.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> What makes a person never content? Feeling flatlined like you just exist? Like all goals and motivation is gone.
> 
> The thing that's bothering me the most is that I've lived in my city for 8 years and don't really have any close friends. Why have I cut myself off from society?
> 
> Deffinately feeling like a real loser right now.


Just realize how much the niceguy mentality put you in this place. More than enough reason to abandon it forever.

Realize how much your blameshifting and anger served no purpose other than to isolate YOU.

Yes, she did it to you.

You allowed her to do so.

Say it with me now... "never again"


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Is that where the fake it till you make it attitude comes in. I have to force myself to do more, meet new people, have fun (or pretend at least) until it actually happens naturally?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Is that where the fake it till you make it attitude comes in. I have to force myself to do more, meet new people, have fun (or pretend at least) until it actually happens naturally?


When you are right with yourself, "faking it until you make it" is a good strategy. You will get great results and belief will sink in over time.

When you are on the wrong road, "faking it until you make it" is a ticket to further frustration and volatile anger.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> When you are right with yourself, "faking it until you make it" is a good strategy. You will get great results and belief will sink in over time.
> 
> When you are on the wrong road, "faking it until you make it" is a ticket to further frustration and volatile anger.


How the heck do I know if I'm right with myself? :scratchhead:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> How the heck do I know if I'm right with myself? :scratchhead:


When you claim your happiness from inside - instead of searching elsewhere for it.

That's what "focusing on every twitch" is about.

At some point SHE may do something that will make ME happy. And, I'd better pay attention so I don't miss it!

How weak is that?


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## Orpheus (Jul 6, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Is that where the fake it till you make it attitude comes in. I have to force myself to do more, meet new people, have fun (or pretend at least) until it actually happens naturally?


no. not really. "fake it until you make it" means deny the thing in front of you. Your stated problems are inertia and probably depression. You need to make it until you make it.

As Wayne would say, in the book that started this thread, what would the man you want to be tell you? How would he act/react? Make a list of the stuff that you want in your life. What would a rich life for you look like? And then start going after it rather than sitting around on your tuffet "talking about how you feel about it."

You can start socializing and breaking out of the mold and NOT pretend that your life isn't a mess. That's where you don't have to fake it. Join a divorced/ing men's group. Join things. Start hobbies. Get some new data coming in. You do things to create; contemplate to reflect.

But you already know all this jd. right?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> When you claim your happiness from inside - instead of searching elsewhere for it.
> 
> That's what "focusing on every twitch" is about.
> 
> ...


It's very weak. The sad thing is that I still wonder if she will ever see the changes and come back. What does this mean? I'm not focused completely on me yet. I believe that the NC will help me slowly get to that poing. I sure hope it will!


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> It's very weak. The sad thing is that I still wonder if she will ever see the changes and come back. What does this mean? I'm not focused completely on me yet. I believe that the NC will help me slowly get to that poing. I sure hope it will!


I suggest you read the book "From a Chicken to an Eagle." I read the first couple of chapters and its all about altering your perception. Its about finding your inner happiness and seeing people from a different perspective than what is considered "normal". Not to mention if can help my posWAW then it can help anyone...


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Locke, posWAW. You guys still doing ok?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> It's very weak. The sad thing is that I still wonder if she will ever see the changes and come back. What does this mean? I'm not focused completely on me yet. I believe that the NC will help me slowly get to that poing. I sure hope it will!


Don't be so hard on yourself.

What it means is that if it "could" work, both you and your kids would benefit.

What's so wrong with that?

It happens to be true.

But, where you've missed the boat....?

This isn't about you.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself.
> 
> What it means is that if it "could" work, both you and your kids would benefit.
> 
> ...


I think I have it. I need to learn to make it about me and focus on the things that I can control and let go of the things that I can't. I can control my own happiness and my life with my girls. I can't control her. 

I just don't know what to talk about with the therapist on Thursday. I don't want it to be all about my marriage. I want it to be about me, but I don't even know what that means.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Locke, posWAW. You guys still doing ok?


Better than before. But now I have a fear that I have been put into the "friend zone" and it hurts almost just as bad.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Better than before. But now I have a fear that I have been put into the "friend zone" and it hurts almost just as bad.


That's what my W seemed to be doing to me the whole time since we separated. I pushed to work on R and it pushed her toward "the hate" zone. 

I don't have any advice other then don't push. She has to decide, but remember you don't have to wait. Get on with living and maybe she will remove you from the "friend zone" If not and you really get on with life you will be ready to actually get on with it. 

If I had it to do over I would have been cordial when necessary and I would have done more for me. At least try to do a mini version of synthetics 10 commandments. I understand if you can't take a trip, but you can do other stuff.


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## pseudonym (Aug 19, 2012)

jdlash said:


> That's what my W seemed to be doing to me the whole time since we separated. I pushed to work on R and it pushed her toward "the hate" zone.


Ha, yes, I can relate to that. Funny how that works. The friendzone alleviates their guilt because you still "like" them but when you "love" them it makes them feel so guilty that they just want to push you away.



jdlash said:


> If I had it to do over I would have been cordial when necessary and I would have done more for me. At least try to do a mini version of synthetics 10 commandments. I understand if you can't take a trip, but you can do other stuff.


Agreed here. NC does wonders too. Not for the relationship (imho) but for you (which, in some cases, may help the relationship). But it does take a while before you really feel those effects so patience is key.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Ok, so I thought of a simple way to look at how the WAW's look at us that makes sense to me. My W said that I'm controlling, manipulative and emotionally abusive. Really anyone that is attached and codependent of there spouse is all of those things.

A WAW has become detached and doesn't feel they need us like the codependent does for happiness. 

On the other hand you have someone like me that is dependent and attached to my W. Here's the key. I'm in love with who I think she is, or who I've made her to be in my own mind. This in itself is controlling, manipulative and also emotionally abusive. 

When we are dependent of our spouse we are in love with what we want them to be rather then who they actually are. We paint a picture and then try to make them into that even if we don't realize that's what were doing. If we can find happiness within ourselves and not rely on them for it, we get to see who they are and not what we want them to be. At that point they get to be themselves and we either still love them, or find out that we simply are in love with a concept that we made up of them.

I'll ponder this more over a good nights sleep. (hopefully) I just wanted to get these thoughts out for others to help me dig deeper. Maybe it makes no sense at all. I have posted while being tired before and laughed when I wake up in the morning


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Ok, so I thought of a simple way to look at how the WAW's look at us that makes sense to me. My W said that I'm controlling, manipulative and emotionally abusive. Really anyone that is attached and codependent of there spouse is all of those things.
> 
> A WAW has become detached and doesn't feel they need us like the codependent does for happiness.
> 
> ...


This makes perfect sense!
The challenge is finding a way to be happy with ourselves.

Don't worry about posting while tired, I have had one good night of sleep in the last year. I am exhausted all the time and have no energy and still I can't sleep. Having said that I am sure I have made more than one crazy post out of exhaustion.


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## pseudonym (Aug 19, 2012)

jdlash said:


> My W said that I'm controlling, manipulative and emotionally abusive. Really anyone that is attached and codependent of there spouse is all of those things.


Not sure I totally agree with that. I don't feel those characteristics apply to me yet I'm definitely codependent. But...



jdlash said:


> A WAW has become detached and doesn't feel they need us like the codependent does for happiness.


I do agree with that.



jdlash said:


> I'm in love with who I think she is, or who I've made her to be in my own mind.


Yup! 



jdlash said:


> If we can find happiness within ourselves and not rely on them for it, we get to see who they are and not what we want them to be. At that point they get to be themselves and we either still love them, or find out that we simply are in love with a concept that we made up of them.


I think you're on to something there. Deep thoughts but good thoughts. You may be tired and sleepy but I think you're on target this time.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I suppose that we might not be emotionally abusive, but any codependent is controlling and manipulative. 

We paint a picture of who we love (actually need) and then we treat them like the great person we create. In all actuality they could be a pos, but we love them so we will overlook there flaws and do more for them in hopes that they come out of the fog, etc... That's controlling and manipulative. They see us as weak individuals hence why they aren't in love with us. Who would be? 

When we see them for who they are, we no longer feed there demons. We don't reward being treated like garbage anymore and that in some cases draws respect back from them and in turn some fall back in love. Looking at the ones that have had this happen, we see that it can't be faked. 

I'm not saying we work on ourself and we get the WAW back. I'm saying work on ourselves and we get US back and in a lot of cases we also get the option to choose if we would like them back.

It seems like most people that really figure this codependence out end up deciding they would never want that old life back though.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You mean want their old spouse back?

Or they don't want their old way of life back?


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You mean want their old spouse back?
> 
> Or they don't want their old way of life back?


Well I can't speak for JD, but for me it would be not wanting the old way of life back.

I want my W back more than anything but not if things are going to go back to how they were before she left. I am done with that destructive nonsense.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Well I can't speak for JD, but for me it would be not wanting the old way of life back.
> 
> I want my W back more than anything but not if things are going to go back to how they were before she left. I am done with that destructive nonsense.


I'll let Rosemary's Granddaughter know


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Well I can't speak for JD, but for me it would be not wanting the old way of life back.
> 
> I want my W back more than anything but not if things are going to go back to how they were before she left. I am done with that destructive nonsense.


Still defending her?


----------



## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You mean want their old spouse back?
> 
> Or they don't want their old way of life back?


I'm not sure what I meant now. I was writing with one eye open


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Still defending her?


?


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I'm not sure what I meant now. I was writing with one eye open


Its OK. Let it out. We have all been there.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I meant sleepy, but I do feel like crap. I'm hoping that my new head dr gives me some anti depressant tomorrow!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

So I went to therapy and it seems that I have a mild depression at the worse from what he sees right now. My W called and I like an idiot told her this. I told her that I brought up all of her concerns, but they just weren't buying it. I said I didn't have a lot of examples for being controlling, emotionally abusive, or manipulative as she hasn't really given me any. She said I could take her journal to him. I said ok, then she said she would rather not give it to me, but she would meet with him. 

I would be interested to hear what she has to say, but she has painted the picture so bad in her mind that at this time I think the best I can do is file and run as fast as I can.

One part of me says that I have nothing to hide and the other says that she is completely out of her mind and people take the word of a women much faster then a man, so I could end up with a screwed up life if I allow this. I think I'm going to just pass and leave it at that. 

What would you do?


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> So I went to therapy and it seems that I have a mild depression at the worse from what he sees right now. My W called and I like an idiot told her this. I told her that I brought up all of her concerns, but they just weren't buying it. I said I didn't have a lot of examples for being controlling, emotionally abusive, or manipulative as she hasn't really given me any. She said I could take her journal to him. I said ok, then she said she would rather not give it to me, but she would meet with him.
> 
> I would be interested to hear what she has to say, but she has painted the picture so bad in her mind that at this time I think the best I can do is file and run as fast as I can.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't let her see your therapist. When my W met with our marriage counselor she made him not trust me until he realized her perception of things was biased and exaggerated.

Asking for her help makes it look like you are in therapy to prove something to her, or for her benefit.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I talked to my therapist about it and he said that unless she wanted to share information and work on the marriage he saw no use in having her input on the situation. He feels that us continuing the road of working on me is the only way to go. 

I AGREE!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> So I went to therapy and it seems that I have a mild depression at the worse from what he sees right now. My W called and I like an idiot told her this.














jdlash said:


> I told her that I brought up all of her concerns, but they just weren't buying it. I said I didn't have a lot of examples for being controlling, emotionally abusive, or manipulative as she hasn't really given me any. She said I could take her journal to him. I said ok, then she said she would rather not give it to me, but she would meet with him.


Sounds like you're still trying to prove something to her to win her approval - show her she's wrong.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I got the lumber


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I got the lumber


What would you say if I told you she doesn't even mean what she says. She likely doesn't even realize what it is she's saying - and she surely doesn't realize how you hear it.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> What would you say if I told you she doesn't even mean what she says. She likely doesn't even realize what it is she's saying - and she surely doesn't realize how you hear it.


Truth in words. They never realize what they're saying, not completely anyway. Realizing it would tear down their walls of justification to hurt someone that deep down they still care about. That would cause them a guilt trip they couldn't stand.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

The bottom line is we have to protect ourselves and she thinks I'm nuts.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> The bottom line is we have to protect ourselves and she thinks I'm nuts.


The bottom line is she tells herself you are nuts to justify hurting you. Protect yourself from the lies.

I had a bad night about 3 days ago. I had an anxiety attack and called my best friend yelling about how this is all my fault. He said "don't let her get to you. You are starting to believe the crazy things she has said about you and you will lose who you are to a pit of despair if you don't stop."


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Agreed. Wish me luck. I'm starting a mens small group tonight at my church and for some reason I'm nervous.


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## muskrat (Jun 23, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Agreed. Wish me luck. I'm starting a mens small group tonight at my church and for some reason I'm nervous.


Good luck!
I am sure you will do a great job! You can never go wrong honoring God!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

muskrat said:


> Good luck!
> I am sure you will do a great job! You can never go wrong honoring God!


Funny thing happened tonight. I went into the wrong room and now I'm going to do a 6 week celebration recovery class. I got more out of tonight then I have in all of my therapy sessions combined!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

My W has made me out to be a monster over the last 2 weeks. We used to at least be able to communicate about the girls, but for some reason she has to protect herself from me by avoiding me at all costs. She now texts me first to say that she is calling one of the girls that way she doesn't have to talk to me. I haven't done anything different and don't get it.

Is this simply a way to justify the decisions she is making? It is very difficult and she is actually very convincing. I started to think that I did have a personality disorder a few days ago. My therapist says that I'm barely even in the catagory of mildly depressed. 

I'm at a loss.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Let it go, jd.

You see every time you get into with her, you validate her decision to leave.

Does it really matter why she is doing it?

Stop feeding her ego.

You will also start to feel a lot better when you stop giving her opportunities to keep rejecting you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> My W has made me out to be a monster over the last 2 weeks. We used to at least be able to communicate about the girls, but for some reason she has to protect herself from me by avoiding me at all costs. She now texts me first to say that she is calling one of the girls that way she doesn't have to talk to me. I haven't done anything different and don't get it.
> 
> Is this simply a way to justify the decisions she is making? It is very difficult and she is actually very convincing. I started to think that I did have a personality disorder a few days ago. My therapist says that I'm barely even in the catagory of mildly depressed.
> 
> I'm at a loss.


You told her you were going to file.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You told her you were going to file.


That's probably it. Ever since the decision that we were done, she has cut me off completely. I'm fine with that, I just don't get why she is making me out to be so emotionally abusive now.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

jdlash said:


> That's probably it. Ever since the decision that we were done, she has cut me off completely. I'm fine with that, I just don't get why she is making me out to be so emotionally abusive now.


Have you seen my rant in Scripts thread? 

Going through the same.

I'm a manipulator and that's why she has a bad attitude towards me now.

Doesn't want to see or talk to me because it's easier on her.

Okay.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> That's probably it. Ever since the decision that we were done, she has cut me off completely. I'm fine with that, I just don't get why she is making me out to be so emotionally abusive now.


You expect her to own her part?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You expect her to own her part?


She doesn't need to own anything as far as our marriage is concerned. I'm just hoping that we can get along like we were a couple weeks ago and get back to business with the girls. She can go out and date, divorce me, or whatever she wants to do. I just don't want my children affected by her new found insanity.

How's that for being Manipulative:smthumbup:


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> She doesn't need to own anything as far as our marriage is concerned. I'm just hoping that we can get along like we were a couple weeks ago and get back to business with the girls. She can go out and date, divorce me, or whatever she wants to do. I just don't want my children affected by her new found insanity.
> 
> How's that for being Manipulative:smthumbup:


Earth to JD,

You were "getting along" because she thought you were going to put up with her living elsewhere and letting her cake eat on insurance and other issues.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I guess we can be a typical divorced family. We might as well follow the crowd!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I guess we can be a typical divorced family. We might as well follow the crowd!


You have no idea what she's going to do.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Are you kidding me. When I finally grow a big enough set of balls I'm going to turn int a RAH Why walk when you can run


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Are you kidding me. When I finally grow a big enough set of balls I'm going to turn int a RAH Why walk when you can run


If that's what you want, then God's speed on your journey.

But, realize that your silence and strength are impressing her now in ways that you never have before.

That's why she's so hell-bent on blameshifting and demonizing.

The fact that you aren't responding to it?

Makes you all the more attractive to her.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I know it's not my problem to worry about her, but I'm still going to wait until March until I file. My counselor says that she is going through a lot with the holidays coming up and the fact that this was the start of her dad's final days last year, so I want to wait for her sake. I'm not working on her and I don't feel that there is a rush to file. I figure you can get a divorce anytime. There isn't a big hurry and I'm not worrying about her anymor


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> That's probably it. Ever since the decision that we were done, she has cut me off completely. I'm fine with that, I just don't get why she is making me out to be so emotionally abusive now.


How does this square with the post above?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> How does this square with the post above?


? Not sure I follow.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Does this statement:
*
>>I just don't get why she is making me out to be so emotionally abusive now<<*
focus on her - or you?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Your right. I feel like I'm willing to let go of the relationship, but obviously I still care what she thinks. One day at a time I guess.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Your right. I feel like I'm willing to let go of the relationship, but obviously I still care what she thinks. One day at a time I guess.


Be patient with yourself.

This is a process.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Be patient with yourself.
> 
> This is a process.


I think she see's that I"m detaching and it scares her. I suppose that statement isn't focusing on me either though


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I think she see's that I"m detaching and it scares her. I suppose that statement isn't focusing on me either though


She doesn't see anything jd.

It's not about you anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

spun said:


> She doesn't see anything jd.
> 
> It's not about you anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You are right. She moved on a long time before she moved out. It's time for me to wake up and do the same.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

spun said:


> She doesn't see anything jd.
> 
> It's not about you anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I disagree. I think she does see it. But it all depends on how much she has truly moved on as to whether or not this actually means anything. It probably wont change a thing. But the way I see it all the blameshifting and whatnot means she is still trying to justify why your marriage is where it is.

Not to hijack JD's thread but my W and I are spending a lot of time together in recent weeks. I saw a shift in her after she stayed with me when she got sick last month. As her own thread on TAM could testify to (before she deleted it) she got in my face intense with bringing up a lot of the bad things I had done. Her blame shifting hit an all time high that i wasn't sure I would survive. But I never responded to any of it and now she wants me around.

Not saying this will happen for you JD but it happened for me. My W was a sandbagging blameshifting maniac for nearly two weeks and then it stopped.

She even said at MC Thursday that "i now realize my husband is not the problem. He never was." My MC almost applauded her.

Just back off for a while JD. File if you have to bit if you are doing fine in limbo land then let things be how they are for a while.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> I disagree. I think she does see it. But it all depends on how much she has truly moved on as to whether or not this actually means anything. It probably wont change a thing. But the way I see it all the blameshifting and whatnot means she is still trying to justify why your marriage is where it is.
> 
> Not to hijack JD's thread but my W and I are spending a lot of time together in recent weeks. I saw a shift in her after she stayed with me when she got sick last month. As her own thread on TAM could testify to (before she deleted it) she got in my face intense with bringing up a lot of the bad things I had done. Her blame shifting hit an all time high that i wasn't sure I would survive. But I never responded to any of it and now she wants me around.
> 
> ...


Locke, you are right on your situation. You used enough self control when your W had a thread to not jump in. Have you ever read codependency no more? If not, do it just to make things even better in your life and the recovery of you marriage. 

The truth is, if you were codependent, then you actually were manipulative, controlling and all of the other things that we hear. I am reading this book and I am realizing that I probably became a codependent when I was 19 years old. I had a girlfriend that I loved more then anything else in the world. She became sick and I gave up my life to take care of her. I became her caretaker and eventually she dumped me. I think it was because I became so codependent on her that the relationship was ruined. I have been codependent in relationships ever since then.

I am going to finish the book and then possibly find a therapist that specializes in codependency. The only person we can take care of is ourself. We can love others and care for them, but it isn't our job to take care of them. 

I appreciate your kind words Locke. I know that my W is doing some serious self evaluation, but I can't make that my obsession anymore. I have to take care of myself and learn to not be codependent and then make the decision in regards to this marriage when I'm healthy again. 

I'm very happy for you! I hope you let her fix her own problems and continue to work on yourself. Remember to fix your part of the marriage (the things you know in your heart you do wrong) and let her fix her part without your nodging her, or helping at all.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

I like that you are not making her your obsession. In my case that's what I focussed on more than D or not to D. I hope my patience pays off but I will be OK even if it doesn't.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm really getting a lot out of codependent no more! I really was manipulative, controlling and emotionally abusive. I'm starting to think that codependency is a personality disorder, but the good news is that it's a heck of a lot easier to cure!

I was just thinking though. Do I apolagize for these things? I mean, she really doesn't want to talk about the relationship, or have anything to do with me at this time. I just want to make sure I've got a handle on this so I don't repeat myself the rest of my life. I would like to be in a healthy relationship someday. I know I can't do this until I'm no longer codependent.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

If you have sincere remorse over those issues and specific examples of when they really hurt the relationship, apologizing to her face-to-face would be good for you.

Do not, however, let it turn into a situation where she starts tossing logs on the fire.

That's not the purpose of the exchange.

In other words, you hit the door with the first "I told you so"


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If you have sincere remorse over those issues and specific examples of when they really hurt the relationship, apologizing to her face-to-face would be good for you.
> 
> Do not, however, let it turn into a situation where she starts tossing logs on the fire.
> 
> ...


I think seems how I really just figured this out I should give it time. I have a history of finding something out about myself and rushing to tell her. I agree with the examples part. If I can't say when I was all of those things, I'm not really ready IMO.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Also, it usually isn't "I told you so" It's "I'm sorry you had to learn this way" I suppose it's the same thing though


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Also, it usually isn't "I told you so" It's "I'm sorry you had to learn this way" I suppose it's the same thing though


She says that line, you get up and silently leave.

We've noted she speaks to you as if you're 5 years old.

No more.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She says that line, you get up and silently leave.
> 
> We've noted she speaks to you as if you're 5 years old.
> 
> No more.


Ya but that 22 year old doesn't I'm not looking for a rebound or anything, but it sure is refreshing to be able to talk to someone that listens! Might have to see what she's up to tonight! I see nothing wrong with being friends


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> She says that line, you get up and silently leave.
> 
> We've noted she speaks to you as if you're 5 years old.
> 
> No more.


Without question. No explaining or reasoning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

spun said:


> Without question. No explaining or reasoning.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think I need to focus on myself. The more I think about it, I don't see the need to apolagize every time I see a mistake I made. Maybe a while down the road, but I have to remember that it was only a week ago that she felt I should be committed to the nut house. 

If I'm completely honest with myself I would be apolagizing for the wrong reasons right now anyway. That's not truely remorse, so it's not time for that yet.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Ya but that 22 year old doesn't I'm not looking for a rebound or anything, but it sure is refreshing to be able to talk to someone that listens! Might have to see what she's up to tonight! I see nothing wrong with being friends


Just don't go on about your WAW. One of 2 things are likely to happen.

1. She will run for Canada
-or-
2. You will be forever placed into the "friend zone" removing any chance for anything more between you two.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I think I need to focus on myself. The more I think about it, I don't see the need to apolagize every time I see a mistake I made. Maybe a while down the road, but I have to remember that it was only a week ago that she felt I should be committed to the nut house.
> 
> If I'm completely honest with myself I would be apolagizing for the wrong reasons right now anyway. That's not truely remorse, so it's not time for that yet.


You are my inspiration JD.

I ended up in a situation today where I ended up apologizing and should not have. This week is my W's week to have the kids. We just spent the weekend in the hospital with my daughter and now I have the bug that landed her there, and my W had it last night.

So i kept the kids last night because mom was sick. I already planned on having them today because my W has to be to a Dr appointment very early tomorrow. Well since I am dang near incapacitated I told my W I could not keep the kids tonight. She got so angry and said things like "I guess I have to miss my appointment in the morning." 

I ended up apologizing and telling her I didnt mean to ruin her appointment and that i would take the kids anyway so she wouldn't miss.

When i saw her to get the kids I had had time to think about my stupid apology and I told her that i shouldn't be sorry. I got sick just like she did. Stuff happens and I was there for her yesterday when she got sick.

To my amazement she didn't argue with me. I stood up for myself and wasn't mean about it and I got a positive response.


Keep walking the walk Jd.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I am still reading codependent no more and I think I'm at a point of accepting reality. It really is true. I don't have to be happy with reality, but accepting it sure seems to be helping me deal with it and life in general better!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I was telling an old friend about my situation and he said that I can be vindictive. I'm trying to figure that out. I guess my W isn't the only one that see's me as holding resentment and spite. I'm thankful that he had the guts to tell me that, but now I'm really pondering what it is that would make him think I'm vindictive. I really want to learn so I don't continue down the same road my whole life.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I was telling an old friend about my situation and he said that I can be vindictive. I'm trying to figure that out. I guess my W isn't the only one that see's me as holding resentment and spite. I'm thankful that he had the guts to tell me that, but now I'm really pondering what it is that would make him think I'm vindictive. I really want to learn so I don't continue down the same road my whole life.


Call him back and ask him what he meant..let him know that you are trying to understand yourself better. Thats what friends are for. You should feel good that he was able to be honest with you..without you being vindictive.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Just got back from the dr's to get meds to help me quit smoking! One more positive step in the right direction!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I think I need to focus on myself. The more I think about it, I don't see the need to apolagize every time I see a mistake I made. Maybe a while down the road, but I have to remember that it was only a week ago that she felt I should be committed to the nut house.
> 
> If I'm completely honest with myself I would be apolagizing for the wrong reasons right now anyway. That's not truely remorse, so it's not time for that yet.


If the apology would be helpful FOR YOU, then you do it.

You could go back and forth on this a few times before making a final decision.

I apologized to mine when I figured this out and it went well.

Your mileage may vary.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If the apology would be helpful FOR YOU, then you do it.
> 
> You could go back and forth on this a few times before making a final decision.
> 
> ...


I want to eventually, but I'm just not sure how I want to word it. Part of my own therapy is to not jump to make quick decisions anymore. I feel remorseful, but I also feel like my apolagy would be more focused on trying to get positive results toward R. I'm getting wiser and realize this means I'm not ready yet


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I want to eventually, but I'm just not sure how I want to word it. Part of my own therapy is to not jump to make quick decisions anymore. I feel remorseful, but I also feel like my apolagy would be more focused on trying to get positive results toward R. I'm getting wiser and realize this means I'm not ready yet


IF your apology would be focused on R, then you're giving to get.

If it's the right thing to do FOR YOU, do it.

What she does in response is irrelevant, but you are prepared either way.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> IF your apology would be focused on R, then you're giving to get.
> 
> If it's the right thing to do FOR YOU, do it.
> 
> What she does in response is irrelevant, but you are prepared either way.


That's why I have to stick with the 180 and work on myself for now. Eventually (hopefully) I will be in the position that I'm not giving to get and then I will apolagize.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

jdlash said:


> That's why I have to stick with the 180 and work on myself for now.  Eventually (hopefully) I will be in the position that I'm not giving to get and then I will apolagize.


By then you won't feel the.need.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

UpnOver said:


> By then you won't feel the.need.


Don't be so sure.

Discovery is a very interesting process.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

The more I learn I realize that I had an image of who I loved. I thought I loved her so much, but in reality I wasn't allowing her to be her. Seeing her from a new point of view I still have a lot of stuff that I love about her. It's almost like seeing the person you originally married. I fell in love with her for her and then tried to change her. It will be a long process and either way the future will be brighter as long as I learn to no longer be codependent.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> The more I learn I realize that I had an image of who I loved. I thought I loved her so much, but in reality I wasn't allowing her to be her. Seeing her from a new point of view I still have a lot of stuff that I love about her. It's almost like seeing the person you originally married. I fell in love with her for her and then tried to change her. It will be a long process and either way the future will be brighter as long as I learn to no longer be codependent.


She was in this with you.

Bless her boundary-pushing condescending heart.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm not taking all of the blame and I agree. One thing we have to remember is that pretty much anyone and everyone in life pushes our boundaries in one way or another right? I mean looking back, this isn't the only relationship I've had that looked like this.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I'm not taking all of the blame and I agree. One thing we have to remember is that pretty much anyone and everyone in life pushes our boundaries in one way or another right? I mean looking back,* this isn't the only relationship I've had that looked like this*.


Let's make it the last.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Let's make it the last.


I couldn't agree more!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

So I talked to her on the phone for about 20 minutes and apolagized for the things stated above. She didn't speak to me like a 5 year old and didn't really say much. We spoke about the girls a little and she told me that our oldest is begging her to come home. She said our 8 year old said to her that she should just give daddy one more chance. That broke my heart. We talked about the fact that it's impossible to feed these kids anything because they are so picky and other small talk for a couple minutes and that was it.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I didn't expect any response other then to be treated like I was 2 and she didn't do that so it was good.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> So I talked to her on the phone for about 20 minutes and apolagized for the things stated above. She didn't speak to me like a 5 year old and didn't really say much. We spoke about the girls a little and she told me that our oldest is begging her to come home. She said our 8 year old said to her that she should just give daddy one more chance. That broke my heart. We talked about the fact that it's impossible to feed these kids anything because they are so picky and other small talk for a couple minutes and that was it.


Now that you've apologized, don't repeat the behavior.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Now that you've apologized, don't repeat the behavior.


I won't. I just have to continue to accept that this is where I am in life and I can't change the relationship. Doing that would involve manipulation, being controlling, etc... I can only change myself and become a better man.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm having another difficult day today. Yesterday I struggled all day too. I am trying to tell myself and also accept the fact that my marriage is over, but I can't seem to come to grips with it. I know I need to move on, but I feel like I don't know how.


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I'm having another difficult day today. Yesterday I struggled all day too. I am trying to tell myself and also accept the fact that my marriage is over, but I can't seem to come to grips with it. I know I need to move on, but I feel like I don't know how.


I understand what you mean JD. My W says a lot of good things about R but very few times has shown action to back it. It is hard to let go. It is like they want us to accept that we have been living a lie all these years...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I'm having another difficult day today. Yesterday I struggled all day too. I am trying to tell myself and also accept the fact that my marriage is over, but I can't seem to come to grips with it. I know I need to move on, but I feel like I don't know how.


Why not simply enjoy the day as it unfolds and put this crap out of your mind?


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I'm having another difficult day today. Yesterday I struggled all day too. I am trying to tell myself and also accept the fact that my marriage is over, but I can't seem to come to grips with it. I know I need to move on, but I feel like I don't know how.


Coming to the understanding that they will perceive things however they want to justify there cause will make it a little easier on you.

That's where I am, still have my rough days but there's something about knowing it doesn't matter what I say or do anymore.

So saying nothing is the best option.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Why not simply enjoy the day as it unfolds and put this crap out of your mind?


I really wish it were that easy for me. I'm obviously to thick headed to do that.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> Coming to the understanding that they will perceive things however they want to justify there cause will make it a little easier on you.
> 
> That's where I am, still have my rough days but there's something about knowing it doesn't matter what I say or do anymore.
> 
> So saying nothing is the best option.


Did you ever find out if your W was having an affair? I have done some research and still haven't found anything.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I really wish it were that easy for me. I'm obviously to thick headed to do that.


Be patient with yourself. Keep working at detachment.

Are you still in therapy?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Be patient with yourself. Keep working at detachment.
> 
> Are you still in therapy?


Yes, but I don't feel like I get much out of it. The big thing I need to do is accept that it's over and detach. Letting go is the hardest part.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Did you ever find out if your W was having an affair? I have done some research and still haven't found anything.


Did I ever get solid evidence? No.

What do I think happened? She left me for an online EA through her game she played.

It eventually turned physical with all the trips to the "lake".

I stopped looking months ago.

She would never tell me the truth and would blame me anyways.

Doesn't matter.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Yes, but I don't feel like I get much out of it. The big thing I need to do is accept that it's over and detach. Letting go is the hardest part.


Get a different therapist.

Tell the new one you're codependent and want to kick the habit.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

As I see it you are riding a wave. Right now you are trying to swim against it. Just lay back and take the ride. There are many bad things in life you can't change. How you perceive them is up to you. Replace bad thoughts with happy ones. You know that old saying that if you smile and act happy you will become happy. That is 100% true. Don't allow yourself to dwell on things you can't change.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

The first step is to make some new friends. I spent most of my time with my family and when I hung out with people they were friends from her work and they are no longer around.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> The first step is to make some new friends. I spent most of my time with my family and when I hung out with people they were friends from her work and they are no longer around.


Being friends with her friends from work is seeking approval - from her.

You see where that leads.

You need to have your own interests.

If you lived here, we'd start golfing together.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm trying to find an indoor golf league.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I'm trying to find an indoor golf league.


That's called bowling


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> That's called bowling


That's my other problem. We do flip flop custody, so there isn't a specific day that I always have off. Going through divorce isn't for wimps that's for sure. Everything about it is so difficult. I'm not looking forward to the holidays alone with the girls. I will enjoy them, but it will still be very hard.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

jdlash said:


> That's my other problem. We do flip flop custody, so there isn't a specific day that I always have off. Going through divorce isn't for wimps that's for sure. Everything about it is so difficult. I'm not looking forward to the holidays alone with the girls. I will enjoy them, but it will still be very hard.


 I know the feeling. With Xmas coming up. We need to all brainstorm ideas for things to do during Xmas to get our minds off stuff. Ski vacation maybe? Hmmm.

Hang in there things will get better.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> I know the feeling. With Xmas coming up. We need to all brainstorm ideas for things to do during Xmas to get our minds off stuff.
> 
> Hang in there things will get better.


Not to mention brainstorm how to make it a lot better for the kids. My oldest (8 years old) is already asking about how it's going to work. I feel horrible for them having to go through this. They are doing well, but I catch my oldest crying a lot and I know that's why.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

That will change as well. Its hard on kids, but they are resilient as long as they still have both parents in the picture.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

NoWhere said:


> That will change as well. Its hard on kids, but they are resilient as long as they still have both parents in the picture.


For not being very far into yours, you sure are doing good! I'm 4 months in and still struggling like a little baby.


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## NoWhere (Oct 2, 2012)

I went through some bad stretches, but figured it did me no good to be so upset and depressed all the time. That emotional roller coaster that takes you from feeling empty and sad to angry and lost will take you nowhere and will not make your life better or help fix things, if that is still what you want. I still have moments where I feel down, but I just try and turn them around by saying positive things to myself and keeping busy. I'm sure down the line I will have more moments where I feel like breaking down, but I refuse to allow my cheating wife to destroy me and ruin my life.

The biggest hurdle is accepting you can't fix things and change your spouse. Once you get past that you start to see your spouse in a different light and see her for all the bad things she is doing to you and your family! When you keep hoping for her back and telling yourself how much you love her you can't heal and focus on yourself and your children.

You will be fine. Things will turn out ok. You have no idea what great things are in store for your future. This may be the end of the marriage, but may not be the end of the relationship. You may find down the line you wouldn't want to be in a relationship with this person again even if you had the chance. You have to start healing and focusing on what is good for you. Your mind and body can't take this non stop torment. Quit going over everything in your mind, quit trying to fix stuff. You are not the one who is broken.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

I suggest putting money into savings.

Even a little bit every pay day.

I've started doing that and it makes me feel a little better.

Even if it's all going to the lawyer soon! Lol...


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Saw the W in person today. We talked for about 20 minutes about a little bit of nothing and she gave me a hug after leaving. She must not be mad at me anymore. It's like a buddy of mine said. She isn't sure she is done with you and just wants to keep dragging you on. I'm going to keep working on myself and only talk to her about the kids. I'm also going to make sure I have as little questions as I can about the kids and try to detach more. 

It shouldn't take me this long to detach I'm a bit slow must be.

Not bothering her will be good for both of us. I need to focus on me and she doesn't want to be bothered anyway. I have been telling myself "what man with respect for himself would chase someone that doesn't even want to be with them?" It's helped me to detach a little.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Anyone else feelling like crap today?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> Anyone else feelling like crap today?


What's going on?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I just struggle when I don't have the kids. I've done all the girls laundry and got caught back up and hate being in the house alone. I got out for a little while, but I'm just stuck in a rut. I don't have any friends around that can ever do anything and am just feeling all alone. No one to blame other then myself.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

Go out for a beer and watch the game. Always turns into some light conversation too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I just struggle when I don't have the kids. I've done all the girls laundry and got caught back up and hate being in the house alone. I got out for a little while, but I'm just stuck in a rut. I don't have any friends around that can ever do anything and am just feeling all alone. No one to blame other then myself.


Are you a churchgoer?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Are you a churchgoer?


I am. I haven't found a small group yet. I would like to find one with people my age. It's all a work in progress. I did have an old friend text me and I'm headed up to watch the game at a local pub!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I am. I haven't found a small group yet. I would like to find one with people my age. It's all a work in progress. I did have an old friend text me and I'm headed up to watch the game at a local pub!


Good job. Keep that sort of thing going.

It's easy to get lazy and wallow in it.

But, it's not the right path.


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## Bottle (Sep 12, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Saw the W in person today. We talked for about 20 minutes about a little bit of nothing and she gave me a hug after leaving. She must not be mad at me anymore. It's like a buddy of mine said. She isn't sure she is done with you and just wants to keep dragging you on. I'm going to keep working on myself and only talk to her about the kids. I'm also going to make sure I have as little questions as I can about the kids and try to detach more.
> 
> It shouldn't take me this long to detach I'm a bit slow must be.
> 
> Not bothering her will be good for both of us. I need to focus on me and she doesn't want to be bothered anyway. I have been telling myself "what man with respect for himself would chase someone that doesn't even want to be with them?" It's helped me to detach a little.


Jd, at least she gave you a hug. Mine wouldn't do that now she's turned into a different person. 

Hang in there, better times ahead. If I can believe so can you!!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Bottle said:


> Jd, at least she gave you a hug. Mine wouldn't do that now she's turned into a different person.
> 
> Hang in there, better times ahead. If I can believe so can you!!


Bottle - she's not a different person.

She's just showing you a different part of herself.

Believe what she shows you.


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## Bottle (Sep 12, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Bottle - she's not a different person.
> 
> She's just showing you a different part of herself.
> 
> Believe what she shows you.


Yep, The part that protects all the hurt and runs away


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I have been doing some soul searching and I didn't respect her during our marriage. I took it for granted and belittled her. She took me for granted too. I really think she is holding on to some serious grudges and resentment. 

Either way, it's water under the bridge.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I have been doing some soul searching and I didn't respect her during our marriage. I took it for granted and belittled her. She took me for granted too. I really think she is holding on to some serious grudges and resentment.
> 
> Either way, it's water under the bridge.


She has to be doing that to see herself as the victim.

No way she'd be trying to cake eat in this manner if she wasn't resenting you.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I can't believe anyone would hold a grudge so bad that they would throw a marriage away due to the past. She obviously see's change in me, but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm just going to keep working on making new friends and moving forward. There really isn't any other option.


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

jdlash said:


> I can't believe anyone would hold a grudge so bad that they would throw a marriage away due to the past. She obviously see's change in me, but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm just going to keep working on making new friends and moving forward. There really isn't any other option.


believe it brother, believe it. i swear my stbx has sticky notes in her brain & can pull out dates & times it seems, usually i have no clue whats she's talking about, detaching is not caring what the hell they think anymore, i've learned it's about what we've learned/learning


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I can't believe anyone would hold a grudge so bad that they would throw a marriage away due to the past. She obviously see's change in me, but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm just going to keep working on making new friends and moving forward. There really isn't any other option.


If you haven't noticed, women are often more viscous than men.

No honest woman denies this.

If she wants to hurt herself with her defiance, you are duty bound to let her do it.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Garth Brooks-Unanswered Prayers. I lost a love once that I thought I would never get over. I remember a couple years later hearing that song and breaking down crying out of happiness. It is so true that some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers. I keep telling myself this might just be one of those gifts that I'll only recognize years down the road.


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

jdlash said:


> Garth Brooks-Unanswered Prayers. I lost a love once that I thought I would never get over. I remember a couple years later hearing that song and breaking down crying out of happiness. It is so true that some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers. I keep telling myself this might just be one of those gifts that I'll only recognize years down the road.


i love that song, yeah i have a lot of those moments, especially now adays


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Trick or treat!


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I know the whole process is supposed to involve not focusing on them, but it's very hard to do. It seems like lately (about the last week) My W seems completely over me. We still get along discussing the kids, but she just seems different when she picks the girls up, etc.... She seems to care less about me. The thing is, last week she came over to hang out with the girls for the first time in about 2 months and she also wants to go to the water park on new years eve. 

What does all this mean?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I know the whole process is supposed to involve not focusing on them, but it's very hard to do. It seems like lately (about the last week) My W seems completely over me. We still get along discussing the kids, but she just seems different when she picks the girls up, etc.... She seems to care less about me. The thing is, last week she came over to hang out with the girls for the first time in about 2 months and she also wants to go to the water park on new years eve.
> 
> What does all this mean?


Does she have a user account here?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Does she have a user account here?


No


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> No


The one thing you can do to find out what she thinks if file the paperwork.

You ready to do that?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

Conrad said:


> The one thing you can do to find out what she thinks if file the paperwork.
> 
> You ready to do that?


I need to, but it's like I haven't been kicked in the balls enough times yet. I know I should, but I don't have the strenght to do it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I need to, but it's like I haven't been kicked in the balls enough times yet. I know I should, but I don't have the strenght to do it.


Still in therapy?


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I haven't been in a couple weeks.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I haven't been in a couple weeks.


*slapping sound....*

UNTIL you are not worried about her actions, keep the appointments.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

I know, I know ............


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

jdlash said:


> I know, I know ............


At least it wasn't a kicking sound...

That's when you'll know I'm really upset.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Hey JD where you been? How you holding up?


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Still haven't heard from you. I hope you are doing OK. Drop us a line sometime.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Still haven't heard from you. I hope you are doing OK. Drop us a line sometime.


Hi Locke,
Good to hear from you! I am doing good! We should be filing next week. I have just been taking life one day at a time and focusing on being the best dad I can possibly be. 

My wife has pretty much lost her mind as far as I'm concerned. I still pray for her daily, but I have accepted that our marriage is over. The thing I still struggle the most with is seeing how it negatively affects my two little girls. All I can do at this time is focus my life on God and make sure that I give my girls the best life possible.

I hope your still doing great and you and your wife are making progress!


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## LockeCPM4 (Jul 11, 2012)

Thank you for the update. I am proud of you for accepting the circumstances you are in and focussing on being a dad. I hope life brings you many more blessings.

My W and I are in reconciliation and are moving into our new home next week. Its still touch and go but we are managing.

God bless.


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## jdlash (Jun 18, 2012)

LockeCPM4 said:


> Thank you for the update. I am proud of you for accepting the circumstances you are in and focussing on being a dad. I hope life brings you many more blessings.
> 
> My W and I are in reconciliation and are moving into our new home next week. Its still touch and go but we are managing.
> 
> God bless.


That is great news! It's not easy moving on with life, but the woman I married is gone and it looks like she is gone forever. Nothing more I can do other then continue to live and pray to God for strength and guidence in my future.


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