# Overly Affectionate Husband



## happilymarriedtogreatguy

My husband is way too much for me. Aside from wanting sex (and not having it all that often lately), he constantly touches me, rubs my arms or head, wants to be hugged, etc. He wants a deeply romantic relationship after almost 25 years. He feels I am disconnected because I am less affectionate or because I do not trust that he is not trying to get me to want sex. But, truly, I feel less attracted to him than ever (things wore off), I love him more as a friend (my best friend) and we raise our four kids together. I really want either an open marriage (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted) or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire. I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex but if marriage is a sex-required thing, I have one foot out the door. Do many women feel sex is a requirement?
Do you feel guilty if you swat away a husband who makes himself too available?
I feel guilty all the time. But our many drawn out talks lead him to the wrong conclusions (that I am unaffectionate, low libido etc.) I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message.
Huffington Post had a great article on platonic parenting and I wish we could fall into that model.


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## knightRider

"if marriage is a sex-required thing, I have one foot out the door"

I think most men would expect sex is a required part of marriage. 

Looks like you guys need to "spice up" your marriage.


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## AVR1962

Not sure your situation is so uncommon after 25 years. I think as young couples one of those things we explore together for many years is our sexuality. Speaking from a majority stand point, women's hormones do not generate the sexual desires like our male partners. When a man constantly associates touching to sex, whereas we females may just need touching, we tend to want/desire sex less from our husbands. We want sex but we do not want it forced upon us, we don't want it to be obligatory and we do not want to be thought of only as fulfilling our husband's sexual needs. If we do, we feel used and our elf-worth goes into the toilet.

Your husband needs to understand this process and how you feel towards sex. You need to be able to express your needs to him instead of just avoiding him or feeling repulsed by his touch. he feels that you are not interested, he needs to understand how to meet your needs.

I have been married 24 years and fully understand what you are saying here. I have thought many times of that affair that would spark my interests than be with the man I feel unloved by but you have to think in reality, that is purely fantasy and it would involve alot more hurt in the long run of things. You really do not want your husband to turn his affection towards someone else, that is hard to watch your spouse fall in love with someone besides you. Put those thoughts aside and concentrate on trying to express to your husband what you need from him.


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## Blossom Leigh

If you are "happilymarriedtoagreatguy" why do you have one foot out the door? If he is a great guy, why aren't you wanting to jump his bones? Isn't that part of enjoying a great guy?


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## melw74

Your chosen name is sad as you have named yourself married to a great guy, i think this is what everyone would want if they were honest, I am married to a great guy and i would walk through fire for him.... I also agree with the PP, If this guy is such a great guy then why is your foot out the door?..

I do think sex is an requirement, but i would hate it if my husband felt that he HAD to make love to me, and NOT want to. 

I think its great to be touched, rubbed, have your arms and head touched, it makes you feel loved, and wanted .

An open marriage is only fair if both wants it... otherwise its NOT going to work and you will be Cheating on him, and that is no way fair, if its something you want, and not what he wants (I cant see him wanting this if i am honest)... sounds like he really loves you.

But if hes not what you want then maybe its time to call it a day.


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## Decorum

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message.


He probably cannot believe the true level of disrespect and revulsion you feel for him. (I know, I know, you are "besties")

If my wife told me she wanted an open marriage so she could be with someone she is attracted to it would be the end of our relationship.

Were you "deeply honest" about this?

If you genuinely have any care or respect for this man divorce him, so he stops making a fool out of himself by living under your disgust and rejection and let him find a woman who can really appreciate a "great guy". If you "love" him set him free!

I wish you both the best, take care.


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## unbelievable

I know I didn't sign up to be someone's buddy or roommate. If I had to take my sexual/intimacy needs outside the marriage, I might as well take everything else. Maintaining a roommate for the purpose of raising kids may sound plausible but sooner or later kids grow up and leave. Then you're left with the "buddy" who's spent years proving they have little interest or regard for you. If my alleged partner can't find it in themselves to at least try to tend to my reasonable sexual, emotional, intimacy needs, what good are they? How could I trust them to take care of me should I become disabled, sick, or injured? If I follow, you want him to find love elsewhere but continue to bring his paycheck home? Maybe do some chores around the house? I don't believe I'd pursue such a course. Odds are good that once he found someone who showed him respect and love, he'd feel little need to toss much of anything your way. Once he discovers what he's been missing and what he could have been enjoying all along, his opinion of you probably would plummet greatly.


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## arbitrator

Decorum said:


> happilymarriedtogreatguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message.
> 
> 
> 
> He probably cannot believe the true level of disrespect and revulsion you feel for him. (I know, I know, you are "besties")
> 
> If my wife told me she wanted an open marriage so she could be with someone she is attracted to it would be the end of our relationship.
> 
> Were you "deeply honest" about this?
> 
> If you genuinely have any care or respect for this man divorce him so he stops making a fool out of himself and let him find a woman who can really appreciate a "great guy".
> 
> I wish you both the best, take care.
Click to expand...

I cannot agree more!

Marriage is an institution where the participants are pretty well compelled to share themselves, albeit the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Whether it is your earnings, or even your lack thereof; your earthly endowments, your shared psychology and hormones, the children that you bring into the world, the levels of your faith in God, your political or social leanings, your physical or mental securities or insecurities, your commonalities, your divergent differences, your fears or phobias, or your inherent trials or tribulations; that is what makes marriage the unique partnership that it was so designed to be! It is also contingent upon the both of you to try to lovingly fix or remedy that relationship without fear, consternation, or seeking out the conjugal or sexual help of other like partners. Marriage is and always should be only about the two of you

Have the two of you, in good faith, ever sought out MC in order to help you begin to overcome these many shortcomings?

If you, in good faith, can no longer comply with its precepts, then you should do the honorable thing and release him from that bond! 

To do otherwise, is living in nothing more than a sham of a relationship!


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## Lostinthought61

After 25 years together he stills wants you, stills wants to hold your hand, still thinks you beautiful, stills wants to spend time with you, and you want none of it, is this what you to role model for your children... Is this what your children should know that the shelf life of a sexual marriage, a deeply loving marriage is 25 years....I get it things get stale but if you love each other you both can grow further with each other....but your attitude while honest is callus , and unwilling to try to rekindle what once was loss....he is more then meeting you half way and your looking for the exit....open marriage is an exit for you......you don't deserve him......


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## john117

Sounds exactly like the post my wife would write... After all people over 50 don't touch, don't have sex all that often, and sleep in separate beds 

Of course that's her perception and she's entitled to it. Reality is quite different. I suppose if you're against any affection at this point, any amount seems too much.

Platonic Parenting... Alert  maybe when your "great guy" husband turns into me maybe you'll understand.


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## cons

Xenote said:


> After 25 years together he stills wants you, stills wants to hold your hand, still thinks you beautiful, stills wants to spend time with you, and you want none of it, is this what you to role model for your children... Is this what your children should know that the shelf life of a sexual marriage, a deeply loving marriage is 25 years....I get it things get stale but if you love each other you both can grow further with each other....but your attitude while honest is callus , and unwilling to try to rekindle what once was loss....he is more then meeting you half way and your looking for the exit....open marriage is an exit for you......you don't deserve him......


THIS!!!

I would recommend you read His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. Willard Harley... it may help you to see outside of yourself and understand how your husband is trying to love you and be loved by you.


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## Rowan

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> My husband is way too much for me. Aside from wanting sex (and not having it all that often lately), he constantly touches me, rubs my arms or head, wants to be hugged, etc. *He wants a deeply romantic relationship after almost 25 years.* He feels I am disconnected because I am less affectionate or because I do not trust that he is not trying to get me to want sex. But, truly, I feel less attracted to him than ever (things wore off), I love him more as a friend (my best friend) and we raise our four kids together. I really want either an open marriage (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted) or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire. I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex *but if marriage is a sex-required thing*, I have one foot out the door. *Do many women feel sex is a requirement?**Do you feel guilty if you swat away a husband who makes himself too available?*
> I feel guilty all the time. But our many drawn out talks lead him to the wrong conclusions (that I am unaffectionate, low libido etc.) I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message.
> Huffington Post had a great article on platonic parenting and I wish we could fall into that model.


Many people would be utterly thrilled to have their partner still display affection and want a romantic relationship, especially after 25 years together. I'd be tickled pink to be with a man who was affectionate outside of sex. That's one of the many things that was sadly missing in my now-defunct marriage. 

Yes, marriage is a sex-required thing. It's actually right there in the vows - that whole "forsaking all others, keeping only unto him/her, as long as you both shall live" bit describes a monogamous pairing. It does not describe celibacy. And, yes, many women _do_ feel that a good sexual relationship is a requirement for a happy marriage. 

Yes, I would feel guilty about swatting away my partner. I can't imagine hurting him that way. Sexual fulfillment is a legitimate emotional need for many people, particularly men. It's highly likely that he feels love through sex and through the affection he shows you. Swatting him away is literally swatting his love away. That's just cruel. 

OP, I highly recommend you read the book cons suggested above. _His Needs, Her Needs _by Willard Harley. You describe being almost repulsed by your husband, and that you are no longer attracted to him. That book may help you figure out what each of you needs to do to create romantic love in your relationship, so that you're attracted to him and he's meeting your needs. Usually, a loving, romantic, connected marriage is one that meets each person's needs - and that's going to include sex. 

Or, just get a divorce and allow your husband to find a more compatible partner. But, good luck finding a man who agrees that sex isn't a requirement in a marriage......


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## Vorlon

I felt an incredible sadness reading the OP. It would be my nightmare to have loved and invested my life in a partner that no longer loved and desired me. I know it happens but god that would hurt. BTW- My wife and I have been married nearly 30 years and we are still getting it done on a regular basis. It would be more if I could get the last of the kids out of the house . They move out and then come back and we have to relaunch them. We even moved away and they still found us 

An occupational slap of the hands when I am hugging or kissing my wife and people are around I can live with but to find out she no longer loved (desired) me would be devastating. 

For me and many men love and sex are tightly linked. Yes there is much more to a loving relationship but affection/physical needs are my number #1 love language. Without it I would not see the need to be married. A divorce would take my financial assets anyways so why stay married to someone who doesn't love me. I'd willingly give up half I own to to be free to be with a women who would appreciate that I need to touch, kiss and hold her. That she is so special to me that I want and need to make love to her. 

My suggestion is let the poor man go. Maybe he can find love again. Its still so sad because he probably loves the OP very deeply and is genuinely clueless as to how she really feels about him.


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## Blossom Leigh

I agree y'all. My H pats and loves on me all the time, to the degree that we get comments about it from strangers saying it inspires them. I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## F-102

I once read a "Dear Abby" where a long-time wife started with how her H said that he's no longer interested in sex with her. Now, I expected her to go on wondering what she did wrong, how she could get the affection back, etc...
But instead, she continued that she wishes he would have said that sooner, that she HATES sex with him, that she's felt this way since before they were married, that even though she loves him "with all her heart", she thinks that he is disgusting, etc...

Frankly, I think that marriage is a compromise and a team effort, and that both partners must sometimes do things that they don't like, because it means a lot to the other spouse. Go to any department store, antique show or "chick flick", and you will see men there that would much rather be elsewhere, but they go anyway because they are mature MARRIED people.

If you're looking for people to say: "You go girl, put your foot down and show him the door, because sex not on a woman's terms is demeaning and degrading, and all men are perverts who think that wives are nothing more than sex slaves..." , well, you got a million Oprah-style talk shows that you can watch that will encourage you to be selfish and totally disregard your H's needs.

And eventually, you will get your wish: you will no longer be "happilymarriedtogreatguy".


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## JukeboxHero

As sad as this is, this is pretty similar to what my wife is telling me. I'm pretty affectionate, kissing her on her forehead, hugging her from behind, smelling her hair, caressing her...etc. She says she feels like she's my DOG, because I'm petting her and asks to be left alone.


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## DoneWithHurting

I am your husband... the man you are married to for 30 years with 3 amazing children. I want to hold you and touch you, caress you with tenderness, kiss you and just look at you, drinking in your beauty. I am the man who when he looks at the wrinkles around your eyes, sees all the times you've smiled. I am the man who when he looks at the creases growing between your eyes, sees all the times you worried about our child who was sick. I am the man who when he looks at the lines growing down from your mouth, sees all the times you were sad and cried. I am the man who sees your beasts sagging from age and sees my baby girl nursing as you nurtured her into the beautiful woman she is today. I am that man who gets jealous when i see other men look at you and want to take you from me and fvck you. I am the man who would give his life for you, who would give the world away just to hear you say "i love you". I am the husband who never tires of your company, who is soothed by hearing your voice, who does not seek the pleasures of another woman's arms. I am the man who cherishes the floor you walk on, who smells your blouse when i pick it up off the floor to put in the laundry and makes my head swim. I am the man who wants to feel your skin against mine, who wants to feel you want me, need me, desire me. I am the man who feels complete when i am inside of you, kissing you, smelling you, loving you.

I am your husband. I don't understand why you don't want to touch me. I don't understand why you don't want to make me feel good, feel desired, feel appreciated. I am the father of your children. I don't understand why you don't look at me with deep love for giving you and caring for the greatest gifts the world has to offer. 

Why do you want to hurt me? Why do you tell me to find someone else when all I want is you? Why do you want to be with another man when the one for you is right in front of you and still wants you? Why do you want to throw away 30 beautiful years of memories?

Why don't you love me?
Why are you so selfish?
Why are you so cold?
Why don't you appreciate me for who I am?
Why aren't you attracted to me?
Why don't you want me?

Why?

You hurt me with your rejections.
You hurt me with your coldness.
You hurt me with your words, your looks, your withdrawal, your withholdance.
You hurt me with your angry glances and winching from my touch.
You hurt me over and over again....

Yet...
I love you more than anything in the World.

I am your husband.
And I am alone in a cruel world.
With the woman i love
Who doesn't love me back.

Why?

Do you I have to read and implement No More Mr. Nice Guy and become a prick?
Do I have to read MMSLP and become more independent and not need you?
Do I have to find someone who will deeply love me and throw you away like a piece of trash?
Do I have to break my heart... when all I want to do... is... love you?

Darling, I love you, I need you, I want you.

I am your loving husband, your best friend, your true confident and the greatest guy on the Planet.

Why don't you love me?

Why?


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## Blossom Leigh

That's sad JBH


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## F-102

Tell you what, OP, why don't you show your H your first post, where you alluded to the fact that you are thinking of finding a better man? I sounds like you really don't want to be married to him.


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## tech-novelist

DoneWithHurting said:


> I am your husband... the man you are married to for 30 years with 3 amazing children. I want to hold you and touch you, caress you with tenderness, kiss you and just look at you, drinking in your beauty. I am the man who when he looks at the wrinkles around your eyes, sees all the times you've smiled. I am the man who when he looks at the creases growing between your eyes, sees all the times you worried about our child who was sick. I am the man who when he looks at the lines growing down from your mouth, sees all the times you were sad and cried. I am the man who sees your beasts sagging from age and sees my baby girl nursing as you nurtured her into the beautiful woman she is today. I am that man who gets jealous when i see other men look at you and want to take you from me and fvck you. I am the man who would give his life for you, who would give the world away just to hear you say "i love you". I am the husband who never tires of your company, who is soothed by hearing your voice, who does not seek the pleasures of another woman's arms. I am the man who cherishes the floor you walk on, who smells your blouse when i pick it up off the floor to put in the laundry and makes my head swim. I am the man who wants to feel your skin against mine, who wants to feel you want me, need me, desire me. I am the man who feels complete when i am inside of you, kissing you, smelling you, loving you.
> 
> I am your husband. I don't understand why you don't want to touch me. I don't understand why you don't want to make me feel good, feel desired, feel appreciated. I am the father of your children. I don't understand why you don't look at me with deep love for giving you and caring for the greatest gifts the world has to offer.
> 
> Why do you want to hurt me? Why do you tell me to find someone else when all I want is you? Why do you want to be with another man when the one for you is right in front of you and still wants you? Why do you want to throw away 30 beautiful years of memories?
> 
> Why don't you love me?
> Why are you so selfish?
> Why are you so cold?
> Why don't you appreciate me for who I am?
> Why aren't you attracted to me?
> Why don't you want me?
> 
> Why?
> 
> You hurt me with your rejections.
> You hurt me with your coldness.
> You hurt me with your words, your looks, your withdrawal, your withholdance.
> You hurt me with your angry glances and winching from my touch.
> You hurt me over and over again....
> 
> Yet...
> I love you more than anything in the World.
> 
> I am your husband.
> And I am alone in a cruel world.
> With the woman i love
> Who doesn't love me back.
> 
> Why?
> 
> *Do you I have to read and implement No More Mr. Nice Guy and become a prick?
> Do I have to read MMSLP and become more independent and not need you?*
> Do I have to find someone who will deeply love me and throw you away like a piece of trash?
> Do I have to break my heart... when all I want to do... is... love you?
> 
> Darling, I love you, I need you, I want you.
> 
> I am your loving husband, your best friend, your true confident and the greatest guy on the Planet.
> 
> Why don't you love me?
> 
> Why?


The answer to *these questions* is the "red pill" that some people here disparage. Yes, there really are biological reasons that women fall out of love, and it is SOMETIMES possible to get things back on the right track if they haven't gone too far in the wrong direction. 

It's a lot easier to stop this from happening in the first place than to correct it, but unfortunately most people don't start looking for answers until things have gotten pretty bad...

Oh, one point: being a prick isn't the only alternative to being a "nice guy". It's possible to be a _man_.


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## Roselyn

Woman here, ongoing 35 years (first time) married, and has a romantic husband. He loves to hug, touch, and sex is important to him. I was raised in a very religious, non-touch, Christian family and had initially not been an affectionate person. I made myself affectionate to meet my husband's needs. To be able to bond with your mate, you must return the affection.

There was a time when my career was at the height of mental and physical demands that I was not available for intimacy all the time. We compromised at this time in our lives. He remained loyal. He attributed my low libido to the use of the pill.

Presently, I've worked things out in my head. I do not deny him any affection at all. I'm totally open to his affections. I would not want an open marriage nor want to share him. In your case, you said that you have "one foot out of the door". You need to let him go, if this is truly how you feel. He deserves a woman who will value and love him for who he is.


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## toonaive

JukeboxHero said:


> As sad as this is, this is pretty similar to what my wife is telling me. I'm pretty affectionate, kissing her on her forehead, hugging her from behind, smelling her hair, caressing her...etc. She says she feels like she's my DOG, because I'm petting her and asks to be left alone.


You got the dog line as well? My My.


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## toonaive

I asked my almost XW the same questions. because she was doing the same hurtful things. Do you want an open marriage?, do you want a divorce? To both she said no. Little while later discovered she was sleeping with another man again. Read technovolist's repost from donewithhurting. If you cannot figure this out, then do your husband the favor of divorcing him on very favorable terms before you cheat on him.


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## Yeswecan

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> My husband is way too much for me. Aside from wanting sex (and not having it all that often lately), he constantly touches me, rubs my arms or head, wants to be hugged, etc. *What a meany.* He wants a deeply romantic relationship after almost 25 years. *Odd ball for sure. *He feels I am disconnected because I am less affectionate or because I do not trust that he is not trying to get me to want sex. *See your next sentence. You are disconnected. * But, truly, I feel less attracted to him than ever (things wore off), I love him more as a friend (my best friend) and we raise our four kids together. I really want either an open marriage (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted)*You simply want an affair.* or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire. *you just desire someone else. Got it. * I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex but if marriage is a sex-required thing, I have one foot out the door. *So I can have sex with someone else.* Do many women feel sex is a requirement? *It is not required but it is a huge part of marriage. What did you think would happen when you got married?*
> 
> Do you feel guilty if you swat away a husband who makes himself too available? *I know many who would absolutely enjoy the attention. *
> I feel guilty all the time. But our many drawn out talks lead him to the wrong conclusions (that I am unaffectionate, low libido etc.) *You are disconnected. Friends remember?* I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message. *I don't think you have really spelled it out for him.*
> Huffington Post had a great article on platonic parenting and I wish we could fall into that model. Y*ou wish you could fall into this model or you are working your way towards it and a open marriage?*


What I gather here is you are not in love nor desire your H. You want a open marriage with the benefits afforded such a union.


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## LonelyinLove

I have a friend whose H won't touch her. She would give ANYTHING to have half of what you do.

Be thankful that he still wants you. Read some of the posts here to find out what it's like to not be desired.

Wow. Just wow.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I don't know if the OP is coming back or not.

I think an unbalanced marriage where the love is one-sided is terrible. She is not at fault for feeling the way she does, but she should tell him that she wants a divorce so he is free to find someone who will love him. 

There are lots of women who would be overjoyed to have a partner who loves them and is still affectionate after 25 years.


This will be worse for the OP. She will loose having someone who is enslaved to her by love. She should do it anyway because it is the right thing to do.


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## Yeswecan

LonelyinLove said:


> I have a friend whose H won't touch her. She would give ANYTHING to have half of what you do.
> 
> Be thankful that he still wants you. Read some of the posts here to find out what it's like to not be desired.
> 
> Wow. Just wow.


 Certainly is a head scratcher. :scratchhead:


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## LonelyinLove

I had to go back and read the OP again.

If my H swatted me away I would be crushed. Then gone. And, yes, as a woman, sex is important to me, and we've been married 36 years.

I feel so bad for the OP's husband.


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## NobodySpecial

toonaive said:


> You got the dog line as well? My My.


It is not a line, at least not for me. Touch just is not my love language. And it can get to feeling an awful lot like I am some kind of object when our primary engagement is him grabbing at me. 

We compromise since his primary love language IS touch.


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## melw74

JukeboxHero said:


> As sad as this is, this is pretty similar to what my wife is telling me. I'm pretty affectionate, kissing her on her forehead, hugging her from behind, smelling her hair, caressing her...etc. She says she feels like she's my DOG, because I'm petting her and asks to be left alone.


Well, I think this is lovely, I do not see it as petting in a dog like way, I see it as what you have stated about yourself, Just being affectionate. I love it when my husband does all the stuff you have explained... although it is more me than my husband.

Some people could say that i am overly affectionate, when my hubby gets in from work i cant leave him alone, I still get butterflies when i see my hubby come up the path, I know to some that might make people.... YUCK, but its just me... I also tell him many many times a day how much i love him... I do not think he could forget. I would hate it if my husband told me to leave him alone, i would feel majorly deflated.

I cant see whats wrong with being overly affectionate at all.


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## Hicks

The one relationship in your life that is meant to be sexual is your marriage. That is what defines it as different than all other realationshis you have.


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## Yeswecan

Hicks said:


> The one relationship in your life that is meant to be sexual is your marriage. That is what defines it as different than all other realationshis you have.


Quotable quote!!! :smthumbup:


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## Shoto1984

LonelyinLove said:


> Wow. Just wow.


This was exactly my response after reading the OP. I've always been an optimist. I've never understood the "I've been married for x years and am not feeling it anymore". I've always thought that with each passing year you just have that much more to appreciate/celebrate.


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## norajane

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex but if marriage is a sex-required thing, I have one foot out the door. Do many women feel sex is a requirement?


I feel that sex is a pleasure. It's fun from a physical perspective, and I feel loved and cherished and closer to my man through sex. So yes, sex is very much a requirement - I wouldn't want to be a couple without it!

I also love the affection and petting. I'd feel sad without that, so that's a requirement for me, too.

Did you ever enjoy sex? Was there ever an emotional component to it for you at all? Did you think marriage would not include sex when you married?

If you did enjoy sex, was there something that changed during that last 25 years? Do you have orgasms? Does your H care about giving you pleasure? 

Do you respect your husband? Are you resentful, are there resentments that have built up that are getting in the way of you wanting to be with him sexually?

You get out of a sexual relationship what you put into it. If you put nothing into it, your marriage will indeed die.


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## TRy

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> I really want either an open marriage (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted) or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire.


 If you were my wife and you told me this, I would not give you either of those two options, and would instead give you a divorce. You need to discuss this with him so that he can decide if he wants to stay in this marriage.


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## melw74

john117 said:


> Sounds exactly like the post my wife would write... After all people over 50 don't touch, don't have sex all that often, and sleep in separate beds
> 
> Of course that's her perception and she's entitled to it. Reality is quite different. I suppose if you're against any affection at this point, any amount seems too much.
> 
> Platonic Parenting... Alert  maybe when your "great guy" husband turns into me maybe you'll understand.


Is that what she thinks?. My husband is 60 and hes sooo loving. I can cuddle him kiss him anywhere, anytime, and affection and intimacy is just as important to him as it is to me...

I would hate to get to a certain age and feel that all that should/ would stop.


----------



## happilymarriedtogreatguy

Thank you all for your insight. Interesting to hear perspectives. I did not in any way mean to be offensive. I think marriage can feel off and I am hoping to find a way to get through it. We have four kids and I agree it should be romantic but maybe a hiatus while life is hectic and crazy is a good thing. A surprising number of you suggest divorce over all of the imaginative ways to work it out. I did not mean I am opposed to getting the spark back as much as I am unsure it is coming back. I am glad to have sought out opinions.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I hope you find that spark back..for him and you


----------



## Marduk

JukeboxHero said:


> As sad as this is, this is pretty similar to what my wife is telling me. I'm pretty affectionate, kissing her on her forehead, hugging her from behind, smelling her hair, caressing her...etc. She says she feels like she's my DOG, because I'm petting her and asks to be left alone.


I got the exact same thing.

For a time.

I'm not saying this will work for you, but it worked for me:

I just did it more. More often, more of it, and more... playful.

When my wife would protest, saying similar things as your wife, I finally responded "Wife, I don't care. This is the husband I want to be. I want to love my wife, and enjoy it. There's plenty other things in life to complain about than having a husband that loves you and shows it."

I won't say that I didn't have to adjust my strategy. Some things really piss her off or turn her off. 

But now if we're in the same room more than 20 minutes and I don't grope her a little bit, she wonders what's wrong.


----------



## Marduk

To the OP, I think the real problem is right there, staring herself in the face. 

She has a wonderful husband that she doesn't like, or is turned on by, and can't own up to that.

Because doing that might not be a nice thing to have to do.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I know most people don't get married to be a platonic parent. Like you, my EW apparently did, and that's why she's my EW.


----------



## Anonymous07

LonelyinLove said:


> I have a friend whose H won't touch her. She would give ANYTHING to have half of what you do.
> 
> Be thankful that he still wants you. Read some of the posts here to find out what it's like to not be desired.
> 
> Wow. Just wow.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I can't imagine being upset with a husband who shows his love for you. I would love for my husband to act that way, but sadly I'm the one looking for more affection.


----------



## Marduk

Anonymous07 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> I can't imagine being upset with a husband who shows his love for you. I would love for my husband to act that way, but sadly I'm the one looking for more affection.


The flipside is, of course, that nobody -- man or woman -- really likes PDAs from someone that they're not attracted to.


----------



## melw74

intheory said:


> Like, like, like, like, like, like . . . . . .
> 
> OP, what you describe your husband doing to you, sounds like heaven on earth to me.
> 
> I am going to ask the prosaic, mundane things that go through my head when I read about situations like yours:
> 
> Does your husband have bad breath/poor dental hygiene?
> 
> Does he have dirty hands/fingernails?
> 
> Does he not wash or use deodorant frequently enough for his lifestyle?
> 
> And, along the lines of what norajane was asking:
> 
> Has he racked up a bunch of debt, or behaved in a financially irresponsible way; so that you do not feel safe or secure with him?
> 
> Does he overly appreciate other women? Skirt-chasing, heavy flirting, porn-using? So that you feel "lesser-than", and have grown distant from him emotionally?
> 
> From your post, it doesn't sound like any of the above apply. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow that there might be other things going on in the marriage that have caused your desire to die???
> 
> 
> If none of the above are true; then how I wish you could recognize what a treasure you have in this man - and you could reignite your lust for him; if you ever had lust for him, that is.
> 
> 
> "Platonic parenting" sounds ridiculous. A contrived, artificial construct.


For a second there, I thought you was asking me all these questions about my husband....... Until i saw op, at the beginning, I missed that bit then Pissed myself laughing (spat coffee out all over my Laptop):rofl:....

My daughter sitting next to me with me laughing looking at me like i am nuts... The first part about him having bad breath was the start... sigh, I really need to read things Properly.


----------



## unbelievable

Do you, Bill, take Anne to be your buddy? To expect absolutely nothing from until they throw dirt in your eyes for the last time?

I now pronounce you husband and wife. You may give each other a friendly head nod and fist bump.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

unbelievable said:


> You may give each other a friendly head nod and fist bump.


I actually LOL'd. Well played. :smthumbup::rofl:


----------



## melw74

intheory said:


> Sorry melw74. I should have been a bit clearer. Glad you got a laugh out of it.


No worries at all.... It made me smile, not sure my hubby would tho.... He has a thing about clean fresh breath X.


----------



## 6301

There's a old Chinese proverb. "Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it". 

It boggles my mind that someone would complain that their spouse shows his love and affection "too much". and then you have the balls to say you would want a open marriage.

Honestly I wish he would agree to it and find someone a lot more worthy then send your sorry ass flying out the door on the end of his shoe. Wake up and be greatful that you have someone like that.


----------



## turnera

How about providing more information first. Has he never been affectionate until now? Are there ****** in your relationship? Did you fall out of love for him? What's changed?


----------



## MEM2020

He's smothering you. Huge turnoff.

What else is he doing to turn you off?




happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> My husband is way too much for me. Aside from wanting sex (and not having it all that often lately), he constantly touches me, rubs my arms or head, wants to be hugged, etc. He wants a deeply romantic relationship after almost 25 years. He feels I am disconnected because I am less affectionate or because I do not trust that he is not trying to get me to want sex. But, truly, I feel less attracted to him than ever (things wore off), I love him more as a friend (my best friend) and we raise our four kids together. I really want either an open marriage (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted) or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire. I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex but if marriage is a sex-required thing, I have one foot out the door. Do many women feel sex is a requirement?
> Do you feel guilty if you swat away a husband who makes himself too available?
> I feel guilty all the time. But our many drawn out talks lead him to the wrong conclusions (that I am unaffectionate, low libido etc.) I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message.
> Huffington Post had a great article on platonic parenting and I wish we could fall into that model.


----------



## john117

In case you missed the "platonic marriage" article it's simply how to stay "married" for the children as a divorce alternative. It's not a type of marriage arrangement where one actually can claim to be married, no quotes.

Of course, since OP never came back that tells us what's in her mindset quite clearly, don't it?


----------



## Decorum

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> But, truly, I feel less attracted to him than ever (things wore off)


This is a pregnant euphemism.

What is clear is that the relationship has been neglected and attraction and sympathy have been lost.

There is passion based on attraction, its heavily biological and role dependent. Lose respect, build resentment, its gone and very hard to replace.

There is attraction based on emotional connection, it requires harmony, sympathy, and kindness. This assumes both people are emotionally available, and many people are not for good ( but unfortunate) reasons, so not every one can do this, some are not even interested.

This takes time, work and honesty by both partners. 


This OP says, "things wore off", well to me that is very very telling.

She is not here asking how to connect with her husband, she is here asking how to get her husband to try to stop connecting with her. Sad, sick, and disturbing.

Was it Tunera who asked, "has he always been this way?"... Yeah we could use some more information, because I think there is more to the story.

But you know what does not change...Love covers a multitude of sin, and bitterness, resentment, unrealistic expectations and selfishness ruin relationships.


----------



## Coffee Amore

The OP has posted again. It's on Page 3. Our system hid the post thinking it was spam, but the post is visible now.

I deleted one unhelpful sexist post. Let's keep the unnecessary gender war type posts to a minimum.


----------



## cyclone

You should let him go so he can find a good woman who will love him the way he deserves.


----------



## norajane

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> Thank you all for your insight. Interesting to hear perspectives. I did not in any way mean to be offensive. I think marriage can feel off and I am hoping to find a way to get through it. We have four kids and I agree it should be romantic but maybe a hiatus while life is hectic and crazy is a good thing. A surprising number of you suggest divorce over all of the imaginative ways to work it out. I did not mean I am opposed to getting the spark back as much as I am unsure it is coming back. I am glad to have sought out opinions.


If your marriage is fundamentally sound, you might be interested in a couple of old books, "Light His Fire," and "Light Her Fire." The books try to give you some suggestions for how to get that spark back. You can probably pick them up used on Amazon for next to nothing.

Good luck!


----------



## EnjoliWoman

And sometimes you have to "fake it til you make it". Try mirroring his behavior even though you don't want to. Touch back, hug back, etc. Just like smiling even when you don't feel like it has been proven to boost mood, I think being affectionate when you don't feel like it can improve the relationship's connection for BOTH people.

And to answer your question, no, you can't put things on the back burner when life gets hectic. That's when you need the sanity and grounding effect of a physical relationship. When you don't want to talk everything to death because you've listened to four young people all day and just need touch followed by exhausted content deep sleep.

Good luck.


----------



## Wiredtired

EnjoliWoman said:


> And sometimes you have to "fake it til you make it". Try mirroring his behavior even though you don't want to. Touch back, hug back, etc. Just like smiling even when you don't feel like it has been proven to boost mood, I think being affectionate when you don't feel like it can improve the relationship's connection for BOTH people.
> 
> And to answer your question, no, you can't put things on the back burner when life gets hectic. That's when you need the sanity and grounding effect of a physical relationship. When you don't want to talk everything to death because you've listened to four young people all day and just need touch followed by exhausted content deep sleep.
> 
> Good luck.


I agree with this. When things get hectic, the one person you should run to is your spouse to help with things. Pick each other up and keep each other from falling down. Putting things on hold is a very effective way to distance yourself from your spouse.


----------



## jorgegene

My wife is often too affectionate. She wants hugs and kisses immediately when she comes home, even while I'm eating dinner.

When we are eating dinner together, she wants kisses, even when I have a mouthful. She wants to paw me even at times when I don't feel like it, or it will draw attention in a public place.

Past relationships and years prior to her with the other women in my life where, they disdained too much affection have taught me what a blessing I have now. We sometimes have to thank our lucky stars, even when it's annoying. I would NEVER want to go back to those days of moodiness, and bland or missing affection.

Now when she paws me or demands a kiss, even when I don't want it, I give it to her and don't say a thing, because I just remind myself the days when I would want a bit of affection from my partner only to be coldly rejected or spurned. 

"Sometimes we don't know what we have till it's gone"

No thank you. I wouldn't want her any other way.


----------



## Wiredtired

marduk said:


> I got the exact same thing.
> 
> For a time.
> 
> I'm not saying this will work for you, but it worked for me:
> 
> I just did it more. More often, more of it, and more... playful.
> 
> When my wife would protest, saying similar things as your wife, I finally responded "Wife, I don't care. This is the husband I want to be. I want to love my wife, and enjoy it. There's plenty other things in life to complain about than having a husband that loves you and shows it."
> 
> I won't say that I didn't have to adjust my strategy. Some things really piss her off or turn her off.
> 
> But now if we're in the same room more than 20 minutes and I don't grope her a little bit, she wonders what's wrong.



Yep, that's it. A wife is there for her husband to love and to cherish. Who would want it any other way?:scratchhead:


----------



## Blondilocks

Since your life is hectic and crazy, the constant touching can cause sensory overload. Some people do not like to be touched as much as others and will stress out from the constant attention.

Ask your husband to back off a little. Explain that it isn't him - it's you and you're feeling stressed.

My husband and I had to negotiate the amount of touching and affection as I wasn't comfortable being a substitute for a teddy bear. 

You may find that your husband is constantly reaching out due to an insecurity. Perhaps your assurances that you do love him and do find him attractive (just not on-call 24/7) will help to cut back on the touching.


----------



## melw74

jorgegene said:


> My wife is often too affectionate. She wants hugs and kisses immediately when she comes home, even while I'm eating dinner.
> 
> When we are eating dinner together, she wants kisses, even when I have a mouthful. She wants to paw me even at times when I don't feel like it, or it will draw attention in a public place.
> 
> Past relationships and years prior to her with the other women in my life where, they disdained too much affection have taught me what a blessing I have now. We sometimes have to thank our lucky stars, even when it's annoying. I would NEVER want to go back to those days of moodiness, and bland or missing affection.
> 
> Now when she paws me or demands a kiss, even when I don't want it, I give it to her and don't say a thing, because I just remind myself the days when I would want a bit of affection from my partner only to be coldly rejected or spurned.
> 
> "Sometimes we don't know what we have till it's gone"
> 
> No thank you. I wouldn't want her any other way.


Am i your wife... Sounds like me, I have also been known to kiss and grab my hubby when hes eating his dinner, I also grab him when he comes in form work, Thinking about it now maybe my hubby does not like it, but if he doesn't then he has a good way of covering it up ha.... But like i have said, he will hold me, kiss me, cuddle me anywhere, and anytime... I love that


----------



## nuclearnightmare

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> Thank you all for your insight. Interesting to hear perspectives. I did not in any way mean to be offensive. I think marriage can feel off and I am hoping to find a way to get through it. We have four kids and I agree it should be romantic but maybe a hiatus while life is hectic and crazy is a good thing. A surprising number of you suggest divorce over all of the imaginative ways to work it out. I did not mean I am opposed to getting the spark back as much as I am unsure it is coming back. I am glad to have sought out opinions.


OP:

I have a couple questions. you say you have lost attraction to your husband:

1. has he let himself go physically?
2. do you see other men in your environment that you ARE attracted to? or is your libido sort of bottoming out and you don't find men in general attractive anymore?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

john117 said:


> In case you missed the "platonic marriage" article it's simply how to stay "married" for the children as a divorce alternative. It's not a type of marriage arrangement where one actually can claim to be married, no quotes.
> 
> Of course, since OP never came back that tells us what's in her mindset quite clearly, don't it?


sounds like some of the posters in the CWI section, the BS, try out this concept. their relationship with their children can stay strong, their children don't have to go through the trauma of a divorce. they enculcate a "civil, friendly" relationship with a spouse they no longer love.

infidelity aside, it seems to me that if one partner falls out of love with the other ("I'm just not attracted to you anymore. Sorry"), the rejected partner will tend to carry a good bit of resentment toward the other. "Platonic" means friend, and I think the rejected partner has reason to not feel all that friendly toward their spouse after getting some version of the ILYBIMNILWY speech. then the question is whether that resentment is palpable by their kids. Mom and dad live together but there's an underlying disdain or disrespect that they pick up on. But.....they don't have to be without their mom or their dad. therefore maybe they don't care? I don't know the answer


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Geez, I wish I had someone too affectionate in MY life!


----------



## GusPolinski

jorgegene said:


> My wife is often too affectionate. She wants hugs and kisses immediately when she comes home, even while I'm eating dinner.
> 
> When we are eating dinner together, she wants kisses, even when I have a mouthful. She wants to paw me even at times when I don't feel like it, or it will draw attention in a public place.
> 
> Past relationships and years prior to her with the other women in my life where, they disdained too much affection have taught me what a blessing I have now. We sometimes have to thank our lucky stars, even when it's annoying. I would NEVER want to go back to those days of moodiness, and bland or missing affection.
> 
> Now when she paws me or demands a kiss, even when I don't want it, I give it to her and don't say a thing, because I just remind myself the days when I would want a bit of affection from my partner only to be coldly rejected or spurned.
> 
> "Sometimes we don't know what we have till it's gone"
> 
> No thank you. I wouldn't want her any other way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i28UEoLXVFQ


----------



## unbelievable

There will most certainly come a day when the man will never touch you or speak to you again. You might find yourself deeply missing the touch you find so annoying. There are worse fates than to live with someone who finds you desirable and who wants to feel your touch.


----------



## Decorum

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> Thank you all for your insight. Interesting to hear perspectives. I did not in any way mean to be offensive. I think marriage can feel off and I am hoping to find a way to get through it. We have four kids and I agree it should be romantic but maybe a hiatus while life is hectic and crazy is a good thing. A surprising number of you suggest divorce over all of the imaginative ways to work it out. I did not mean I am opposed to getting the spark back as much as I am unsure it is coming back. I am glad to have sought out opinions.


So this is the OP"s reply.




happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> *My husband is way too much for me.*
> 
> *I really want either an open marriage* (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted) or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship *(or) where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire.*
> 
> I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex but if marriage is a sex-required thing, *I have one foot out the door*. Do many women feel sex is a requirement?


The high points of her original post! :wtf:



happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> A surprising number of you suggest divorce over all of the imaginative ways to work it out.


And she says we are un-imaginative! :rofl:

Imagine that! 

.


----------



## jorgegene

melw74 said:


> Am i your wife... Sounds like me, I have also been known to kiss and grab my hubby when hes eating his dinner, I also grab him when he comes in form work, Thinking about it now maybe my hubby does not like it, but if he doesn't then he has a good way of covering it up ha.... But like i have said, he will hold me, kiss me, cuddle me anywhere, and anytime... I love that


Probably because like me, he wouldnt have you any other way.


----------



## EleGirl

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> Thank you all for your insight. Interesting to hear perspectives. I did not in any way mean to be offensive. I think marriage can feel off and I am hoping to find a way to get through it. We have four kids and I agree it should be romantic but maybe a hiatus while life is hectic and crazy is a good thing. A surprising number of you suggest divorce over all of the imaginative ways to work it out. I did not mean I am opposed to getting the spark back as much as I am unsure it is coming back. I am glad to have sought out opinions.


Somehow I think that there is a 'rest of the story'. 

It sounds like while he gives you are lot of a 'affection' there is more in the marriage that has been neglected. What are those things? It's probably both of you who have done this.


----------



## melw74

jorgegene said:


> Probably because like me, he wouldnt have you any other way.


What a lovely person you seem to be, I would say your wife is very lucky to have you... Because if she cant keep her hands off you then you must be doing something right.

My husband would probably worry if i stopped it all, I know he would also miss it (hope so lol).


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

unbelievable said:


> There are worse fates than to live with someone who finds you desirable and who wants to feel your touch.


Not if you're not attracted to them. Who wants to be touched by someone they don't like?

It sounds like she's a fraud and the marriage is a sham but he doesn't know it.


----------



## Angelou

HOW are you "happilymarriedtoagreatguy" when you don't SOUND like it?


----------



## unbelievable

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Not if you're not attracted to them. Who wants to be touched by someone they don't like?
> 
> It sounds like she's a fraud and the marriage is a sham but he doesn't know it.


No, there are far worse fates than being touched by and admired by someone you don't find particularly attractive. Not being admired by anyone at all and not having anyone to touch all would be two.
Being latched onto someone you find incredibly attractive but who doesn't want you touching them would be another. Being hooked up to someone you find incredibly attractive but who's in prison, paralyzed, dying, on a military deployment 5000 miles away, or who's gay, or who's crap bug crazy, or who's cruel, unfaithful, selfish, dishonest, etc would all be far worse than being desired or touched by someone who doesn't blow your skirt up. One can turn the light off or take a drink and turn a "5" into a "10" pretty easily. One can't raise the dead, cure disabilities, spring folks from prison, or stop abuse or adultery as easily. 
Before the day is over any of us could be permanently hideous. Our physical appearance isn't who we are, it's just how we happen to look today. If anyone believes their life just sucks hard because they don't live with the "10" they think they deserve, they might want to consider the millions who live alone or who have to go to the graveyard, psych ward, prison, or nursing home to spend time with their loved one. There are husbands and wives who have living spouses who don't recognize them at all or remember anything about them. Having a live, somewhat unattractive partner isn't anywhere near the worst fate that can (and probably will) befall you. 
You could be married 30 years to the woman of your dreams, knockout gorgeous, she thinks you're the hottest man on earth. Y'all could knock boots five times daily and have the love story of the century. Before the day's out, either of you could have an injury or a stroke and not even recognize or even like the other. 
Trust me, there are loads of fates worse than having a somewhat unattractive but otherwise sane and decent partner.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Not if you're not attracted to them. Who wants to be touched by someone they don't like?


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## Wiredtired

Does he know you want an open marriage? If he finds out and doesn't want the same thing, you will no longer be happily married....just sayin.


----------



## unbelievable

If being married to physically attractive people is related to marital happiness, why are there so many divorces in Hollywood? There are lots of very nice looking yet very screwed up people on this earth. I can turn down the lights and an average woman can be a beauty queen. In harsh light or complete darkness, crazy is still crazy, evil is still evil. No plastic surgery, diet, or gym time can fix evil or crazy.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

unbelievable said:


> No, there are far worse fates than being touched by and admired by someone you don't find particularly attractive. Not being admired by anyone at all and not having anyone to touch all would be two.


Well, sure, having your eyes gouged out would clearly be worse than being touched by someone you don't want to touch you... but in this context, not being touched is a lot better than being touched by someone you don't want touching you. I mean, if it's done to a stranger on the street, it'd be sexual assault no?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

unbelievable said:


> If being married to physically attractive people is related to marital happiness, why are there so many divorces in Hollywood? There are lots of very nice looking yet very screwed up people on this earth. I can turn down the lights and an average woman can be a beauty queen. In harsh light or complete darkness, crazy is still crazy, evil is still evil. No plastic surgery, diet, or gym time can fix evil or crazy.


It's not only the physical that attracts. Even if this guy were a stud muffin, she could still feel this same way because of his behaviors.

Like annoying the f out of her by constantly touching and doting. It can be smothering.

That said, I don't think this is really OPs problem. I don't think feeling smothered spurs a desire for an open relationship. She's just fixated on the grass on the other side of the fence and wants to hop over for a stroll. In other parlance - she wants some strange. It's that desire that's probably at the root of detachment from hubby. Step by step you see.


----------



## unbelievable

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Well, sure, having your eyes gouged out would clearly be worse than being touched by someone you don't want to touch you... but in this context, not being touched is a lot better than being touched by someone you don't want touching you. I mean, if it's done to a stranger on the street, it'd be sexual assault no?


Go somewhere where you have absolutely no human physical touch of any kind for a year or so and see if you still stand by your assessment. You'd look forward to and appreciate something as simple as the handshake of a stranger. People who say they'd rather live without any human touch than to be touched by someone unattractive really don't know what they are talking about.


----------



## Fozzy

guys go batsh!t crazy in supermax because of that.


----------



## Betrayedone

Your marriage is a one-sided sham..........You need to let him go so someone else can appreciate him.......He deserves better than what you are willing to offer....


----------



## jorgegene

There was a gal at work we called the 'hug lady'. Her first day at work she explained that 'everybody' needs human touch and hugs are therapeudic.
she wasn't particularly good looking to me, definetly not my type, but I grew to liking her hugs anyway. Everyday, sometimes several times a day.

Not really directly related to OP situation, but she seems to have left the building


----------



## EleGirl

unbelievable said:


> Go somewhere where you have absolutely no human physical touch of any kind for a year or so and see if you still stand by your assessment. You'd look forward to and appreciate something as simple as the handshake of a stranger. People who say they'd rather live without any human touch than to be touched by someone unattractive really don't know what they are talking about.


How long have you lived with someone who you are not attacked to touching you in a sexual manner? That is what the OP is talking about. 

The OP has expressed that she has a problem with the type of touch her husband is giving her. She has the right to her feelings. Trying to tell her that there are worse things in the world than what she has to live with is not helpful to her at all. 

Her issue is not equivalent to the hug lady. And even if she did not like the hugs from the hug lady, she's entitled to that as well.

Shoot we could play the same game with cheating. There are many things in this world worse than being cheated on. You listed some of them. I can think of others even worse than the ones you listed. 

The OP is experiencing feelings that she does not understand and is having trouble dealing with. Telling her that her feelings are nonsense is not going to help her much.


----------



## Chaparral

Op's mentioning an open marriage says it all. She already has a candidate but she doesn't want to destroy her comfy life. I'm also guessing open marriage means the om is married too.

Her light at the end of the tunnel isn't sunshine, its a train and the crash is going to be huge.

Fortunately, her husband well be surrounded by women looking for what he's selling.

I hope she sends her husband here, we can help him move on and do better the next time.


----------



## Starstarfish

As always, another thread where the answers are amazingly gendered.

A woman who says she isn't attracted to her husband? Turn the lights off! Get drunk! You could be stuck on a desert island - so be appreciative! We all can't have a 10! We could all be disfigured at any moment!

A man who isn't attracted to his wife? What a cow! She's abandoned her marriage vows! A man has a basic need for an attractive spouse! Doesn't she know how she's killing your soul?!!

Yeah ...


----------



## unbelievable

EleGirl said:


> How long have you lived with someone who you are not attacked to touching you in a sexual manner? That is what the OP is talking about.
> 
> The OP has expressed that she has a problem with the type of touch her husband is giving her. She has the right to her feelings. Trying to tell her that there are worse things in the world than what she has to live with is not helpful to her at all.
> 
> Her issue is not equivalent to the hug lady. And even if she did not like the hugs from the hug lady, she's entitled to that as well.
> 
> Shoot we could play the same game with cheating. There are many things in this world worse than being cheated on. You listed some of them. I can think of others even worse than the ones you listed.
> 
> The OP is experiencing feelings that she does not understand and is having trouble dealing with. Telling her that her feelings are nonsense is not going to help her much.


I did so for about 12 years. Never once rejected her or made her feel undesirable. Whatever I thought about her appearance, she was still a human being. Maybe I shouldn't have married her but I did. Because I made a promise to treat her like my wife, that's the way I treated her. Nobody here would like the feeling of being rejected by their spouse, so why would we think it'd be ok to reject our's? Aren't we supposed to treat others the way we want others to treat us? If you thought your child was homely would you not give them hugs and kisses? 
People who aren't married and those who aren't parents are free to touch or not touch, as they wish. Spouses and parents have someone who depends on their loving touch, someone who deserves loving touches, someone who needs loving touches (like all normal humans). Whether you naturally feel like providing those touches or not, it's still part of your job description.


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## syhoybenden

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> My husband is way too much for me. Aside from wanting sex (and not having it all that often lately), he constantly touches me, rubs my arms or head, wants to be hugged, etc. He wants a deeply romantic relationship after almost 25 years. He feels I am disconnected because I am less affectionate or because I do not trust that he is not trying to get me to want sex. But, truly, I feel less attracted to him than ever (things wore off), I love him more as a friend (my best friend) and we raise our four kids together. I really want either an open marriage (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted) or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire. I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex but if marriage is a sex-required thing, I have one foot out the door. Do many women feel sex is a requirement?
> Do you feel guilty if you swat away a husband who makes himself too available?
> I feel guilty all the time. But our many drawn out talks lead him to the wrong conclusions (that I am unaffectionate, low libido etc.) I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message.
> Huffington Post had a great article on platonic parenting and I wish we could fall into that model.



Well I suppose that we can only hope that one day soon the good Lord will grant your wish and that you no longer have to be married to an Overly Affectionate Husband.


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## unbelievable

Throughout most of the world's history and still throughout much of the world, people didn't pick their own husbands or wives, yet their unions typically were satisfying and had a much higher success rate than our current Western model. How could that be, unless people were able and willing to behave as spouses, regardless of how they magically and naturally felt on any particular day?


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## unbelievable

We aren't slaves to our emotions at work or with our kids. Why do we imagine we are when it comes to our relationship with our husband or wife?


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## john117

unbelievable said:


> We aren't slaves to our emotions at work or with our kids. Why do we imagine we are when it comes to our relationship with our husband or wife?



Because it's convenient!


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## Decorum

Chaparral said:


> Op's mentioning an open marriage says it all. She already has a candidate but she doesn't want to destroy her comfy life. I'm also guessing open marriage means the om is married too.
> 
> Her light at the end of the tunnel isn't sunshine, its a train and the crash is going to be huge.
> 
> Fortunately, her husband well be surrounded by women looking for what he's selling.
> 
> I hope she sends her husband here, we can help him move on and do better the next time.


Yeah this was in the back of my mind as well, some of the unknowns of this situation. Very possibly someone waiting in the wings. She does not have the courage to come back and lay it all out there. Her solution may have been a creative and imaginative way of getting permission to cheat.

I have been where this lady is, and its very easy to sour yourself rather then build up the relationship.

Not buying what she is selling.


.


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## Starstarfish

> Throughout most of the world's history and still throughout much of the world, people didn't pick their own husbands or wives, yet their unions typically were satisfying and had a much higher success rate than our current Western model.


How do you rate historical success of marriage when for long periods of time it was essentially illegal to get divorced? Or that you didn't get divorced no matter what happened?

And how do you determine whether or not a marriage was "satisfying" in say ... ancient Rome when your husband had the legal right to murder you for disobedience, while he likely had a mistress and he may or may not have been banging the house slaves too.


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## Blossom Leigh

Decorum said:


> Yeah this was in the back of my mind as well, some of the unknowns of this situation. Very possibly someone waiting in the wings. She does not have the courage to come back and lay it all out there. Her solution may have been a creative and imaginative way of getting permission to cheat.
> 
> I have been where this lady is, and its very easy to sour yourself rather then build up the relationship.
> 
> Not buying what she is selling.
> 
> 
> .


Ditto.. which is pecisely the reason I asked the questions I asked early in the thread.


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## EleGirl

unbelievable said:


> Throughout most of the world's history and still throughout much of the world, people didn't pick their own husbands or wives, yet their unions typically were satisfying and had a much higher success rate than our current Western model. How could that be, unless people were able and willing to behave as spouses, regardless of how they magically and naturally felt on any particular day?


In societies in the past that did allow for divorce easily, there were a lot of divorces. 

The only 'proof' that the marriages were more successful is that divorce was not readily available. So marriages were long. That does not mean that they were good marriages.

Women had on choice but to give their husbands sex on demand as that was the law. Men had the right to sex, period. It was assumed in many societies that women did not enjoy sex, it was just something that they did because they had to. That's why it was called the 'duty'.

So you are right. A woman's desire and how she felt from one day to the next was not taken into consideration.


.


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## Blossom Leigh

With all due respect, I am sure there were women who learned how to enjoy their men and men who treasured their wives. I believe the expectation on maturity and intestinal fortitude were much higher then than they are today.

Don't forget that with the large majority of work then being hard labor, the physical ability to support herself and kids was limited, thus learning to count blessings and not be a brat was understood. That mans work was critical.


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## DvlsAdvc8

unbelievable said:


> Go somewhere where you have absolutely no human physical touch of any kind for a year or so and see if you still stand by your assessment. You'd look forward to and appreciate something as simple as the handshake of a stranger. People who say they'd rather live without any human touch than to be touched by someone unattractive really don't know what they are talking about.


I don't want to go back to high school.  :rofl: 

But no, I'd rather go years without touch than be constantly touched by someone I'm not attracted to. We're not talking about handshakes here, we're talking about intimacy.

By your logic, we could say "if deprived long enough, eventually you'll want to be raped". It makes no sense.

Just anyone's touch is not a substitute for the touch of a person you actually want.


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## Chaparral

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I don't want to go back to high school.  :rofl:
> 
> But no, I'd rather go years without touch than be constantly touched by someone I'm not attracted to. We're not talking about handshakes here, we're talking about intimacy.
> 
> By your logic, we could say "if deprived long enough, eventually you'll want to be raped". It makes no sense.
> 
> Just anyone's touch is not a substitute for the touch of a person you actually want.


What does this have to do with a married couple? She no longer wants her husband. She has other plans but lacks the guts to sacrifice her lifestyle for them.


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## unbelievable

john117 said:


> Because it's convenient!


Because that's the only place we can get away with it with. Everyone else expects performance regardless of how you happen to feel and there are immediate adverse consequences if they don't get it.


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## unbelievable

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I don't want to go back to high school.  :rofl:
> 
> But no, I'd rather go years without touch than be constantly touched by someone I'm not attracted to. We're not talking about handshakes here, we're talking about intimacy.
> 
> By your logic, we could say "if deprived long enough, eventually you'll want to be raped". It makes no sense.
> 
> Just anyone's touch is not a substitute for the touch of a person you actually want.


 https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...n/201309/why-we-all-need-touch-and-be-touched

Humans need human touch. We also need food. We don't benefit from being raped just as we don't benefit from eating poison. Being touched by an unattractive partner isn't being raped.


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## DvlsAdvc8

unbelievable said:


> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...n/201309/why-we-all-need-touch-and-be-touched
> 
> Humans need human touch. We also need food. We don't benefit from being raped just as we don't benefit from eating poison. Being touched by an unattractive partner isn't being raped.


I'm not making a case that we don't need touch. Firstly, there are a lot of different kinds of touch which satisfy our need for touch. A simple platonic hug from a friend for example. This woman isn't on some deserted island. She's clearly had her fill of touch, so your point is moot. Her husband's touch is not welcome, so yes, the same principle behind rape applies. The reason rape is wrong isn't because it lacks a benefit. You don't rape because the other person doesn't want sex - and has a right to choose. She doesn't want to be touched by this man and that is her view regardless of how badly someone else might want to be touched or how much a touch deprived person would want to.

It is absurd to stretch our need for touch so far. I'm reminded of the nonsense some parents say in respect to their kid not eating broccoli: "You'd appreciate that if you were starving! There are starving people in Hungary (heheh) who would love to have it!" Smart kid: "Awesome! Send it to them, because I'm not starving and I don't want it."

She doesn't want HIS touch and that's her prerogative just as it is any given person's prerogative to not want a stranger to touch them. The human need for touch is irrelevant. We get to choose who is welcome and who is not. She's not attracted to him; she doesn't want him to touch her. Woe is him... dems the breaks. She should come out with it if she hasn't already, and he should leave and go find someone who appreciates being touched so much. In all probability, she already has her eyes on someone else, and that's a primary reason why she's so dismissive of her husband's affection - it's all part of the detachment process.


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## EleGirl

unbelievable said:


> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...n/201309/why-we-all-need-touch-and-be-touched
> 
> Humans need human touch. We also need food. We don't benefit from being raped just as we don't benefit from eating poison. Being touched by an unattractive partner isn't being raped.


The fact is that some people prefer to not be touched by someone who they are not attracted to (as in a relationship). Some people find that preferable. 

Yes humans generally need touch. But they can also survive without it. There are people who go decades with no one significant touch from others. Sometimes having good friends to talk to and do things with is preferable.


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## DvlsAdvc8

Chaparral said:


> What does this have to do with a married couple? She no longer wants her husband. She has other plans but lacks the guts to sacrifice her lifestyle for them.


It was reply to unbelieveable's post advocating touch as universally positive.

The touch of someone you're not attracted to, is unwelcome. She's not attracted to her husband. I agree, she needs to gtfo. Or, she needs to own up to him so he can gtfo.


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## john117

Well...

Since my wife decided to go BPD on us in her late 40's she decided that touch is overrated. I respect her view.

Since then she has turned into a zombie. With two kids in college and an empty nest it's not difficult to help her zombify herself even faster.

Without much touch - and much human contact as she works from home most of the time - she is really going all out zombie on us. Serious deterioration of social and emotional skills, increasing inability to cope with anything of importance, decreased self confidence, increased isolation, the works. 

Of course I'm not going to point any of those out. I did once and suggested MC or IC but she "felt fine". So I will let the zombie process run to completion and that's all she wrote after that. When I am off the hook in 24 months she will have plenty of time to ponder the no touch policy and it's long term implications. Hopefully I'll be gone by then. 

But I would REALLY want one last word with her, to find out how did this "no touch" policy work for her


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## DvlsAdvc8

Is she actually diagnosed BPD? BPD materializing at 40 would be way weird. Traits usually begin in the teens.


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## nuclearnightmare

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Is she actually diagnosed BPD? BPD materializing at 40 would be way weird. Traits usually begin in the teens.


I was thinking the same thing, John. Plus your wife's deterioration sounds a lot more like severe depression than a personality disorder.

just observations. am not questioning any of your future decisions (don't know enough about your situation)


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## unbelievable

EleGirl said:


> The fact is that some people prefer to not be touched by someone who they are not attracted to (as in a relationship). Some people find that preferable.
> 
> Yes humans generally need touch. But they can also survive without it. There are people who go decades with no one significant touch from others. Sometimes having good friends to talk to and do things with is preferable.


Such people need to be honest enough to leave the relationship and to do so in a manner that does not penalize their spouse who's only offense was being unattractive to them.


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## john117

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Is she actually diagnosed BPD? BPD materializing at 40 would be way weird. Traits usually begin in the teens.



Not common but it does happen. Traits were there but conveniently overlooked I suppose.

Depression is not uncommon alongside BPD but it was more of a secondary issue. The BPD diagnosis came from a phd clinical psychologist after many FC sessions working with our older daughter at the time.


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## JustinLaine

happilymarriedtogreatguy said:


> My husband is way too much for me. Aside from wanting sex (and not having it all that often lately), he constantly touches me, rubs my arms or head, wants to be hugged, etc. He wants a deeply romantic relationship after almost 25 years. He feels I am disconnected because I am less affectionate or because I do not trust that he is not trying to get me to want sex. But, truly, I feel less attracted to him than ever (things wore off), I love him more as a friend (my best friend) and we raise our four kids together. I really want either an open marriage (so he can turn his huge affection to someone else and I can find someone to whom I am attracted) or a marriage based on a deeper better friendship where he can respect my not feeling a huge surge of desire. I think marriage should handle the ups and downs of wanting sex but if marriage is a sex-required thing, I have one foot out the door. Do many women feel sex is a requirement?
> Do you feel guilty if you swat away a husband who makes himself too available?
> I feel guilty all the time. But our many drawn out talks lead him to the wrong conclusions (that I am unaffectionate, low libido etc.) I have been deeply honest with him but he seems not to get the message.
> Huffington Post had a great article on platonic parenting and I wish we could fall into that model.


I know a woman who was unappreciative of her husband. So she cheated on him. Eventually they got divorced and now she has no one. Occasionally she has dates, but for some reason none of the men she meets wants anything beyond just sex.


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## Jellybeans

Most of your posts since joining TAM seem pretty negative, JustinLaine. Chip on your shoulder much? Under the bridge?


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## Jellybeans

Well yeah, TAM does have a lot of not so happy threads. But he's essentially come in told the OP she's unappreciative of her husband and told a story of "you may end up alone" without offering anything to her post about what she came seeking answers for. That entire post was a "this may happen to you."


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## DvlsAdvc8

Exactly. There's also the alternative narrative that she loses the doting husband, finds a better match and lives happily ever after. I'm not sure we can say what the odds favor.


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## Married but Happy

Put your other foot out the door and free the poor guy to find someone who loves and appreciates him. Do the same for yourself.


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## bandit.45

Why are you guys wasting all this energy on an abandoned thread? OP has bailed and she is not coming back.


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