# Menopause/Changing Attitude Toward Marriage



## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

After my W suggesting I do some research on menopause, I have realized that there are hormonal changes that can profoundly affect a woman's attitude toward marriage during perimenopause and menopause.

A quote from Lori Phillips - BellaOnline's Marriage Editor:
_"As menopause ensues, estrogen levels drop while testosterone levels rise. A woman suddenly feels less inclined to be the pleaser. The increase of testosterone makes her “testy” and more prone to thinking about her own needs. A lot of women suddenly think, *“I’ve put everyone first in my life. There are things about him and our marriage that I don’t want to put up with anymore."*_

In a discussion about R between us, my wife has said almost these exact words to me.

Few on TAM know my situation, just suffice it to say that my W has every right to divorce me. We are about to separate, and we'll see where it goes from there. 

While sincerely not trying to blame-shift here, or discuss my particular situation (although I really wish I had done this research a few years ago during the "peri" phase), I am curious as to how perimenopause/menopause and it's hormonal changes have affected you. 

Any "mature"  ladies here who can relate and wouldn't mind sharing their thoughts?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm perimenopausal and yes I can totally relate. And for me it isn't just about my husband it's about friends, family, etc. I'm sick and tired of putting everyone else's needs above mine. This is a critical age that I realize now if I'm to survive it without killing anyone I MUST put my needs first. It's a time of transition from pleasing others to pleasing myself.

Thankfully my husband is nice and on board with this. We've worked out the kinks in our marriage over the last 1-2 years and he is supportive of me and will meet my needs. We've worked this out and he gets it.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Oldtimer, sorry to hear how things are going with your M. 

To answer your question: I, too, am perimenopausal....so far the biggest challenge for 'us' is the emotional roller coaster. Before realizing what was going on, my H would often ask: 'what the [email protected] is going on? I just talked to you 10 min. ago and everything was fine! What did finally shed a little light on it for us both was when someone (think it was here on TAM) suggested we read "No, It's Not Hot in Here!". Sorry....H has the book now and I honestly can't remember who wrote it. After going through menopause with his W, the author decided to write an easy-to-read book to help men understand what his wife's going through when she reaches this stage in her life. Everything he said was right on!!! If you haven't read it yet, I would highly recommend it. 

Best wishes to you and your W.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Thank you, *heavensangel*, I will check it out.

Just ordered it through Amazon...*"EXPEDITED SHIPPING"*
:lol:


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Anytime....

I asked my H if anything sounded familiar in it.......

He said: Hell yes! You're on every page....... Lol!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

but thet fail to realsie that their husband put everybody first also or she wouldn't be there! (there are exceptins . I'm talking about a marriage where both partners are equaly vested in rasing a family)

the biggest double standard of all!

get married and have kids is most womens dream raise a family and then after say I'm sick of putting everbody first.

when our hormones are rageing we are told to control it. then when the shoe is on the other foot well then......we are to give way because they are acting like a bi*ch.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Maybe that's why I kicked my husbands ass to the curb on D day instead of groveling to get him back 

You know, that attitude coming at that time of life could just be a coincidence. A woman has raised her kids, they're on their own or close to it, she's earning more if she has a job or has more free time if she doesn't. She is wiser. She is more confident. That has to do with age, not with menopause. I don't see how the specific link to hormonal changes can readily be made.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> but thet fail to realsie that their husband put everybody first also or she wouldn't be there! (there are exceptins . I'm talking about a marriage where both partners are equaly vested in rasing a family)
> 
> the biggest double standard of all!
> 
> ...


I can assure you my husband did NOT put me first. Not even close. And yes he will admit that now. His job, his parents, his siblings, his friends, his job and the TV came before me. 

My take on this is NOBODY male or female should put their own needs on the back burner. 

We're just saying these wild hormone swings make it impossible for women to keep giving and giving and giving when there is nobody giving back. I was one who gave more than I got back. I've changed that now and ironically I give more now than ever because I'm balanced and I've established my priorities better.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Maybe that's why I kicked my husbands ass to the curb on D day instead of groveling to get him back
> 
> You know, that attitude coming at that time of life could just be a coincidence. A woman has raised her kids, they're on their own or close to it, she's earning more if she has a job or has more free time if she doesn't. She is wiser. She is more confident. That has to do with age, not with menopause. I don't see how the specific link to hormonal changes can readily be made.


If one believes the "hormonal" explanation, may be a bit more than coincidence, IMO. 

Hope1964, are you "peri" or "post" menopausal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Technically peri, although I don't really believe in the 'one year without a period' thing the medical community uses as an arbitrary distinction. I'm 48, haven't had a period since June, have been hot flashing and night sweating and all that for about a year and a half.

I'm just saying that people seem quite quick to attribute things to women's hormones, when in fact there's really no way to take all the other variables out of the equation to do so with any certainty.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Duly noted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> *You know, that attitude coming at that time of life could just be a coincidence.* A woman has raised her kids, they're on their own or close to it, she's earning more if she has a job or has more free time if she doesn't. * She is wiser. She is more confident. * T*hat has to do with age, not with menopause. I don't see how the specific link to hormonal changes can readily be made.*


I was about to say the same thing! I'm 45 and still have my periods like clockwork, always have, and never had PMS either. However, when I hit 40 I realized life is way short for me to shortchange myself or to live according to other people's expectations...I felt free to please myself and not care what other people thought of my choices and decisions and activities or what anyone thought of me.

I feel better than I ever have about myself and my life and LOVE this liberating feeling of a weight having lifted off my shoulders. How glorious! 

But this was far more about time and what I've learned over time than any hormonal thing as I don't have any hormonal things going on.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

old timer said:


> So, Nora, with due respect, not being peri or post menopausal, you really do not have any cogent comments to add to this convo? Or is it just me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wtf?? What the heck does THAT mean?? No one's allowed to give an opinion unless they're menopausal??

I thought her comments were quite useful. Or are you trying to get people to tell you only something you want to hear?


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Wtf?? What the heck does THAT mean?? No one's allowed to give an opinion unless they're menopausal??
> 
> I thought her comments were quite useful. Or are you trying to get people to tell you only something you want to hear?


Nope, not at all, *Hope1964*...

Did I not ask in the original post for "mature" ladies here who can relate and wouldn't mind sharing their thoughts? [about menopause]

By her own admission,* norajane* is not yet in peri/post menopause, or anywhere in between. 

You are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I am post-menopausal.
Think the testosterone making us 'testy' is bullcorn!
Agree with the other poster(s) that it's more about reaching a maturity level, kids are grown or close to it, we are not financially dependent on Hubby, we see parents dying, friends and peers dying and realize we have a LIMITED TIME to get what WE want out of life.

After years of being 'giving' out of NECESSITY, perhaps we're just less willing to put up with cr*ppy reasons (like societal expectations) to continue being an endless 'well' of giving!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I think the testosterone making us 'testy' is bullcorn!


This is in fact true. I'm on hormones and my testosterone was nonexistent.

It was the LACK of progesterone that was making me cranky. It was directly related to my cycle so I know that menopause was a big part of my issue. I didn't feel this way until AFTER I entered perimenopause. For me there was a direct relationship between my hormone imbalance and how I felt towards my life in general.

Your mileage may vary since we are all so very different. Some women skate through menopause. I however wasn't one of them.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> This is in fact true. I'm on hormones and my testosterone was nonexistent.
> 
> It was the LACK of progesterone that was making me cranky. It was directly related to my cycle so I know that menopause was a big part of my issue. I didn't feel this way until AFTER I entered perimenopause. For me there was a direct relationship between my hormone imbalance and how I felt towards my life in general.
> 
> Your mileage may vary since we are all so very different. Some women skate through menopause. I however wasn't one of them.


I'm confused, Mavash. Do you agree or disagree with SGWiser about the testosterone not being relevant?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

old timer said:


> Nope, not at all, *Hope1964*...
> 
> Did I not ask in the original post for "mature" ladies here who can relate and wouldn't mind sharing their thoughts? [about menopause]
> 
> ...


So unless someone is menopausal you intend to discount what they have to say  and tell them to butt out of your thread  :scratchhead:

Allrighty then.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

old timer said:


> I'm confused, Mavash. Do you agree or disagree with SGWiser about the testosterone not being relevant?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Women have three hormones, estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. When I entered perimenopause I noticed I was angrier, easily stressed and annoyed with many people/situations around me.

At 45 I sought help in the form of hormone replacement therapy. My estrogen is fine but my progesterone and testosterone were non existent.

Conclusion: it wasn't an excess of T that made me cranky if anything it was the lack of it that did it.

SGWiser was commenting that many women go through a change at age 40 that has nothing to do with menopause. I agreed with that. In my case my moods cycled. I'd be fine for a week or so then I'd hate everyone for 2-3 weeks. 

The hormones and managing my life better fixed all that. Hormones alone aren't enough cause well I'm not 20 anymore. The place I go to for the hormones will tell you that. Its not the fountain of youth. If a woman doesn't make lifestyle changes to go WITH the hormones its likely she'll not notice a great improvement in how she feels.

I downsized my life, I eat well, I exercise, I get plenty of rest, and I make sure I make my needs a priority. It's a mind, body and soul type exercise and I do it all now.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

so. I'm confused .

please explain how you would raise a family and then decide to go off on your own after the kids are gone instead of reconnecting with your spouce? and fullfillg your marriage vows.

talk about a bait and switch ...its the ultimate ...suck your husband dry of all his early years so you can have a family the decide . I'm sick of giving so now I'm going to take half your wealth and send you packing.


?????

never trust a woman seems fitting. 

paints a picture of what marriage is really about. any young man who gets married today is a fool.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

old timer said:


> So, Nora, with due respect, not being peri or post menopausal, you really do not have any cogent comments to add to this convo? Or is it just me?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry you didn't understand what I was trying to say.

You asked if any mature women could relate. I told you that, at 45, yes, I absolutely CAN relate to what your wife said about not wanting to please others anymore, to put herself first, and to be unwilling to put up with certain things from a marriage. Because I had that awakening as well and have thought those same thoughts. However, it was not hormonally related, but age and experience related. So maybe hormones aren't all that's affecting your wife or other women of a certain age who come to this same realization.

But you don't want to talk about any mid-life changes that are due to personal growth, only those that attribute mid-life changes to their hormonal changes? Ok. I will bow out of your thread and leave you to it. Cheers.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> So unless someone is menopausal you intend to discount what they have to say  and tell them to butt out of your thread  :scratchhead:
> 
> Allrighty then.


*Hope and norajane:* I did misunderstand. 

I have deleted my comment. 

My apologies.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> please explain how you would raise a family and then decide to go off on your own after the kids are gone instead of reconnecting with your spouce? and fullfillg your marriage vows.
> 
> talk about a bait and switch ...its the ultimate ...suck your husband dry of all his early years so you can have a family the decide . I'm sick of giving so now I'm going to take half your wealth and send you packing.


The message is always there, do for yourself, be your own person, strong, independent, unfettered. Maybe the physical change makes the message more attractive or it makes resisting the message more difficult.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> Women have three hormones, estrogen, progesterone and testosterone. When I entered perimenopause I noticed I was angrier, easily stressed and annoyed with many people/situations around me.
> 
> At 45 I sought help in the form of hormone replacement therapy. My estrogen is fine but my progesterone and testosterone were non existent.
> 
> Conclusion: it wasn't an excess of T that made me cranky if anything it was the lack of it that did it.


Yes. Good explanation and interesting experience. 

People assume that testosterone makes people cranky because men as a general demographic group are more aggressive and violent than women. 

But that's a classic case of folk wisdom spawning from a casual connection. 

To my knowledge, the connection is unproven and clinical studies actually seem to contradict it. 

Testosterone May Make Women Nicer | LiveScience


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

I am perimenopausal and the effects have been profound. I LOVED sex, loved love, being in love...Now I want to cut the heads off of small kids (exaggeration, but you get my drift). I have always been an Alpha type and now it's worse. I don't NEED him -- for anything. If I never had sex again, it would be too soon.

My politics, world view, lifestyle choices, etc. have changed and don't jive w/ his FOR ME. He is cool w/ it. But I don't have patience with him. I hate him 'pawing' on me. Sex and kissing is gross to me. The fluids and smells are just nasty...It's horrible.

I have also had some issues w/ nausea and anger...You name it. I don't have any kids and have always been self-sufficient, so I don't need a husband. I always wanted one, got one and now have no use for him.

I feel like a crazy, angry, horrible person. I hate being this way. I need hormones badly.

Good luck to you (and her!)


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Honeysuckle...why have you not checked into hormone treatment?

Do you enjoy feeling this way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

old timer said:


> Honeysuckle...why have you not checked into hormone treatment?
> *I need to; I know. I have worries about cancer because many people on both sides have died from cancer.*
> 
> Do you enjoy feeling this way?
> ...


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

There is a possibility that hormone therapy can cause cancer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Originally Posted by old timer View Post
Honeysuckle...why have you not checked into hormone treatment?
I need to; I know. I have worries about cancer because many people on both sides have died from cancer.

Do you enjoy feeling this way?
No. But, it keeps me disconnected and that must be serving some perverse purpose in my puny brain (that is chemically challenged!). It sucks because this person is not me. I hate being around myself.


Honeysuckle Rose, I feel the same way you do when it comes to hormone replacement therapy. Quite honestly, I don't care to take any medicine; only take it if I have to. There's just too many scary side affects that come with it. I wonder sometimes if we'd be better off dealing with what's wrong with us, then taking something that causes other, sometimes, worse problems. 

The book I referred to Old Timer (No, It's Not Hot In Here) has three chapters that specifically cover HRT and/or medicalizing menopause. There's an entire chapter on alternative ways/things to help you deal with your symptoms. 

I hope you find this helpful.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

old timer said:


> There is a possibility that hormone therapy can cause cancer?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My progesterone is made from YAMS. 

Not sure about the testosterone but men have been getting it for oh forever so I think I'm safe.

I think it's the estrogen (maybe) that's been linked to cancer but from what I've read not the biodentical stuff the fake stuff. Either way I'm not getting estrogen at the moment.

Oh and btw the likely reason my estrogen is high is from my environment (personal theory) So many of our foods, toiletries, hormones in food increase estrogen. If I'm going to get cancer from an increase in estrogen it will be from that not from me getting hormones.

And what's the point of living a long life if I kill everyone during the 10 years while I go through menopause? I'll take my chances with the hormones. LOL


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

heavensangel said:


> There's an entire chapter on alternative ways/things to help you deal with your symptoms.


Agree whole heartedly. I tried all these methods for about 2 years before I waved the white flag of surrender. Nothing but the real deal stuff worked for me.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Good point, Mav.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

old timer said:


> There is a possibility that hormone therapy can cause cancer?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely


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## Joanie (Oct 24, 2010)

I had a total hysterectomy a year ago, so that ended it all for me. I was in full swing, late stage peri menopause before the surgery. I gotta tell ya that my mate thinks my mood swings or testiness is just me being a beatch and doesn't really buy the "Hormonal thing". He has always been of the mindset that women use that as the "get out of being called a beatch card". Makes me annoyed as hell too. Don't think I could EVER get him to read a book about what it's like for a woman to go through it. Unless it's a book about cars or true crimes, he isn't going to read it.

Funny thing...just the other day I said to my daughter...I'm 51 now and I want to start doing things for myself and start saying NO more to other people. Case in point...my son got engaged. Yay...so happy! But his future wife wants me super involved in the weddng planning and to be honest, I really don't want to be. My time is so small and I plan events for a living. I really don't want to be using my free time to plan THEIR wedding. I told this to a co-worker and she looked at me like I was the worst person in the world. I raised three great kids, work super hard and want to enoy my free time the way I want to enjoy it! I will mention (so you all don't think I am horrible) that I told my future daughter in law that I would go to 1 bridal expo and also with her to look at her dress but beyond that I really don't want every weekend to turn into "BRIDAL MANIA"


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## honeysuckle rose (Jun 11, 2010)

Joanie said:


> I had a total hysterectomy a year ago, so that ended it all for me. I was in full swing, late stage peri menopause before the surgery. I gotta tell ya that my mate thinks my mood swings or testiness is just me being a beatch and doesn't really buy the "Hormonal thing". He has always been of the mindset that women use that as the "get out of being called a beatch card". Makes me annoyed as hell too. Don't think I could EVER get him to read a book about what it's like for a woman to go through it. Unless it's a book about cars or true crimes, he isn't going to read it.
> 
> Funny thing...just the other day I said to my daughter...I'm 51 now and I want to start doing things for myself and start saying NO more to other people. Case in point...my son got engaged. Yay...so happy! But his future wife wants me super involved in the weddng planning and to be honest, I really don't want to be. My time is so small and I plan events for a living. I really don't want to be using my free time to plan THEIR wedding. I told this to a co-worker and she looked at me like I was the worst person in the world. I raised three great kids, work super hard and want to enoy my free time the way I want to enjoy it! I will mention (so you all don't think I am horrible) that I told my future daughter in law that I would go to 1 bridal expo and also with her to look at her dress but beyond that I really don't want every weekend to turn into "BRIDAL MANIA"


Girl, I am WITH you on this! When you do something for a living, sometimes you want/need a break from it. While her including you is sweet, you will be a guest & shouldn't have to do jack but show up & have a good time. Now that I am older, I try (as difficult as it is) to be more about me & what I want. 

I am going to start doing that w/ him more too. I work super hard to support a lot of people. I am tired of doing crap I don't want to on my off time. To hell with that from now on. Whoever doesn't like it can walk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks to all of you for sharing. 

You too, *norajane* 

What I seem to be hearing here is (for whatever reason) a woman feels less nurturing (read: not putting up w/ BS from anyone anymore), and realizes she's moving into another phase of her life. She wants that life to be more in tune to what she wants, as opposed to the wants and needs of those around her.

A question: Once you'd gone into post menopause, did the hormonal associated mood swings subside?


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm perimenopausal as well, and for me, I have found that I do not tolerate or put up with things like I used to. I actually thought as I got older I would be able to handle things a little better or be more patient, ummm nope! I just don't have time for nonsense anymore.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Joanie said:


> I had a total hysterectomy a year ago, so that ended it all for me. I was in full swing, late stage peri menopause before the surgery. I gotta tell ya that my mate thinks my mood swings or testiness is just me being a beatch and doesn't really buy the "Hormonal thing". He has always been of the mindset that women use that as the "get out of being called a beatch card". Makes me annoyed as hell too. Don't think I could EVER get him to read a book about what it's like for a woman to go through it. Unless it's a book about cars or true crimes, he isn't going to read it.
> 
> Funny thing...just the other day I said to my daughter...I'm 51 now and I want to start doing things for myself and start saying NO more to other people. Case in point...my son got engaged. Yay...so happy! But his future wife wants me super involved in the weddng planning and to be honest, I really don't want to be. My time is so small and I plan events for a living. I really don't want to be using my free time to plan THEIR wedding. I told this to a co-worker and she looked at me like I was the worst person in the world. I raised three great kids, work super hard and want to enoy my free time the way I want to enjoy it! I will mention (so you all don't think I am horrible) that I told my future daughter in law that I would go to 1 bridal expo and also with her to look at her dress but beyond that I really don't want every weekend to turn into "BRIDAL MANIA"



Agree with you. Unfortunately, we live like this for years putting everyone and their needs first and when we want to establish boundaries putting ourselves first, there are sour faces and 'what's up with her?' comments. I'm 49, going through the perimenopause and trying to establish boundaries without being overruled.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> so. I'm confused .
> 
> please explain how you would raise a family and then decide to go off on your own after the kids are gone instead of reconnecting with your spouce? and fullfillg your marriage vows.
> 
> ...


There is actually a scientific explanation for the change in a woman's attitude due to the changes in hormones. During child bearing years certain hormones flood the woman's brain allowing her to be nurturing and in many instances very willing to put up with quite a lot of crap from all and sundry. invariably she is the peace maker in the home as she wants it to be a stable place for her kids. This changes heading into menopause and that is why you see many women filing for divorce because reality hits when they have been in a bad marriage or have a boorish husband who is not understanding during this time.
Read “The Female Brain” by Dr. Louann Brizendine which explains it all.


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## Jbato (Apr 6, 2015)

W is 52 and based the hot flashes, sweating we feel that she is approaching menopause. Lately it appears that little things upset her greatly. I am not perfect and have been the cause of these pecadillos. But the reaction is overwhelming. Nasty words are said and things from the past are dredged up repeatedly. I dare not suggest that she get professional help related to the menopause, it would be like declaration of war. From a lady's point of view, what should I do? Please help me.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Great topic, but a total Zombie thread from 2013...


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