# Dan Savage on women competing with porn



## diwali123

Just listened to this podcast and I thought "yes!" this is what has been sitting in the back of my mind every time I read about women saying they can't compete with porn stars. 
Basically it boils down to this: yes you can. You are a real person. You aren't a two dimensional image. And what are you competing for?
If you can't find any value in your sexiness other than what you look like, then you need to figure it out. 
And yes I know if a man is constantly choosing porn over a real person there's a problem. But the problem isn't that the porn girls are hotter or younger. It's that they aren't real people. They have no needs. 
I wish women could feel good about what they offer in terms of sex. Hopefully no one knows how your guy likes it like you. Hopefully no one does it like you. 
I also have issues with people who think if only pirn didn't exist their partner would never masturbate and then everything would be perfect. 
I used to date a man 12 years younger than me who told me that younger women don't really know what they want, they aren't confident, they don't know how to ask for what they want. so yeah I'm 41 and when I see a 20 year old in a porn I don't feel jealous of her body. I hadn't days as a young woman and now she has hers. 
I had my days of being insecure and not knowing what my body could do and I'd rather be having multiple orgasms than be her. 
And what man really and truly wants to have real sex with a roman who has unprotected sex with hundreds of men?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan

Porn stars do nothing for me as a man. The only reason (usually) I ever view porn is as a release when I've been denied by my partner. 

I wonder how many men are heavily into porn due to seeking an escape/visual release after being rejected multiple times by their partner?


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## diwali123

I keep imaging women in ancient times crying and begging their husbands to stop looking at the erotic art on the urn. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3

diwali123 said:


> Just listened to this podcast and I thought "yes!" this is what has been sitting in the back of my mind every time I read about *women saying they can't compete with porn stars.
> Basically it boils down to this: yes you can. You are a real person. You aren't a two dimensional image*. And what are you competing for?
> If you can't find any value in your sexiness other than what you look like, then you need to figure it out.
> And yes I know if a man is constantly choosing porn over a real person there's a problem. But the problem isn't that the porn girls are hotter or younger. It's that they aren't real people. They have no needs.
> I wish women could feel good about what they offer in terms of sex. Hopefully no one knows how your guy likes it like you. Hopefully no one does it like you.
> I also have issues with people who think if only porn didn't exist their partner would never masturbate and then everything would be perfect.
> I used to date a man 12 years younger than me who told me that younger women don't really know what they want, they aren't confident, they don't know how to ask for what they want. so yeah I'm 41 and when I see a 20 year old in a porn I don't feel jealous of her body. I hadn't days as a young woman and now she has hers.
> I had my days of being insecure and not knowing what my body could do and I'd rather be having multiple orgasms than be her.
> And what man really and truly wants to have real sex with a woman who has unprotected sex with hundreds of men?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::smthumbup::smthumbup:

porn = fantasy. but we do not life in fantasyland, we life in realityland. 

pornstars are professionals getting paid for their acting.

Real-life men/women of our lives are real people who wants to have sex with us because they love us, not because they are getting paid. So, cannot be compared! no competition!

I know there are some men whom are strange fellows, who prefer to jack off to porn than bonking their real-life wives.. They need to have their heads examined! 




kingsfan said:


> Porn stars do nothing for me as a man. The only reason (usually) I ever view porn is as a release when I've been denied by my partner.
> 
> I wonder how many men are heavily into porn due to seeking an escape/visual release after being rejected multiple times by their partner?


:iagree:

.. if your husband/wife consider it their "rights" to apply "chronic refusal of sex", then they have automatically forfeited their rights to be angry if you masturbate to porn as "safety valve"


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## Tigger

I doubt men would be as forgiving if their wives were spending their sexual attentions on other men.


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## studley

kingsfan said:


> I wonder how many men are heavily into porn due to seeking an escape/visual release after being rejected multiple times by their partner?


Raises hand.......


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## john_lord_b3

Tigger said:


> I doubt men would be as forgiving if their wives were spending their sexual attentions on other men.


I don't mind my wife watching porn and having a favorite pornstar, if that's what you mean. She likes Rocco Siffreddi, and I don't mind, because Mr. Siffreddi is just a fantasy, and I am real.. no competition 

Unless Sifreddi came to my house and want to seduce my wife.. let's just say he won't come back to Italy with all body parts intact!


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## mildlyperplexed

Tigger said:


> I doubt men would be as forgiving if their wives were spending their sexual attentions on other men.


Really? I don't see any threads started by jealous husbands complaining that their wife has a crush on a celebrity etc. In fact theres been a few posts recently where guys have been enjoying their wife's improved sex drive as a result of such a crush. 

mmm Professor Brian Cox <3

Ladies if you don't know who he is you should look him up


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## Goldmember357

kingsfan said:


> I wonder how many men are heavily into porn due to seeking an escape/visual release after being rejected multiple times by their partner?


Oh for sure. Men love sex and when they are not getting sex/the pleasure THEY NEED they will find it somewhere else. For the men who are not so quick to cheat porn offers the experience or (fantasy) of experiencing/getting off to other women without actual physical cheating. 

I would say often if a husband has a porn problem its more than likely the case of him being bored with the wife or him not getting enough sex.



Tigger said:


> I doubt men would be as forgiving if their wives were spending their sexual attentions on other men.


True 

But that is perfectly understandable if you can understand the differences between males and females. It may be "unfair", but to hold that view means the person does not understand the male and his views on his "property". Men do not like to share, and are very possessive of their things this can include their women. Women are supposed to be picky, and by getting the woman you chased after, you are rewarded in many ways. For her to go about lusting/eyeing other men all the time it causes the male to feel he has a defective partner or he is not enough. 

The man is designed to spread his seed. His behavior, and sexual/biological makeup is entirely different its no wonder he cannot help but look at other women EVEN when totally committed.


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## Goldmember357

mildlyperplexed said:


> Really? I don't see any threads started by jealous husbands complaining that their wife has a crush on a celebrity etc. In fact theres been a few posts recently where guys have been enjoying their wife's improved sex drive as a result of such a crush.
> 
> mmm Professor Brian Cox <3
> 
> Ladies if you don't know who he is you should look him up


There are threads out there. Women are not as into pornography as men or as visual.

I don't care what equality police say, i know the differences of the sexes and their roles. I also know that like 98% of porn is viewed/purchased/geared towards males, and that most strip clubs, escort services, brothels are almost exclusively visited by men.


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## diwali123

His take was also that gay men in relationships hardly ever have these fights. They don't get jealous of the other guy watching it. 
So I don't think it's a biological make characteristic to be jealous. 
I wonder if these women lived in societies where everyone was naked would they stab their husband's eyes out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IndyTMI

Even with the wife giving it up more, I still find myself masturbating to porn a couple times a week. It's not because of being rejected or that I am addicted, it's because I want to maintain a healthy prostate. My wife understands this and doesn't feel challenged or whatever someone else may feel towards porn.


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## kingsfan

diwali123 said:


> His take was also that gay men in relationships hardly ever have these fights. They don't get jealous of the other guy watching it.
> So I don't think it's a biological make characteristic to be jealous.
> I wonder if these women lived *in societies where everyone was naked *would they stab their husband's eyes out?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you please point me in the direct of this oasis of bliss?


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## diwali123

Places where it's really warm?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

There are some in the Amazon and some in Africa. It only sounds like fun until you see what balls look like after 60 years of gravity. I went to a clothing optional pagan event. Kept my clothes on and realized that random nudity isn't sexy. Just hanging around with scarred, wrinkled, fat, hangy normal people ain't so grand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Drover

FWIW I don't find porn stars attractive either, BUT...

The fact that they aren't real is also their attraction, however. They will never reject you, never nag you, never withhold sex or affection, never sh*t test you, never use emotion to win an argument, never ask if they look fat in this dress....


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## diwali123

Never say "move it a little to the left"....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mildlyperplexed

Goldmember357 said:


> Oh for sure. Men love sex and when they are not getting sex/the pleasure THEY NEED they will find it somewhere else. For the men who are not so quick to cheat porn offers the experience or (fantasy) of experiencing/getting off to other women without actual physical cheating.
> 
> I would say often if a husband has a porn problem its more than likely the case of him being bored with the wife or him not getting enough sex.


Porn is not a physical need, merely a masturbation aid. If a man has a porn 'problem' he needs to take responsibility for himself not shift it onto other people. Suggesting otherwise is unhelpful and very unhealthy.



Goldmember357 said:


> True
> 
> But that is perfectly understandable if you can understand the differences between males and females. It may be "unfair", but to hold that view means the person does not understand the male and his views on his "property". Men do not like to share, and are very possessive of their things this can include their women. Women are supposed to be picky, and by getting the woman you chased after, you are rewarded in many ways. For her to go about lusting/eyeing other men all the time it causes the male to feel he has a defective partner or he is not enough.
> 
> The man is designed to spread his seed. His behavior, and sexual/biological makeup is entirely different its no wonder he cannot help but look at other women EVEN when totally committed.


Honestly in my experience women are at least as possessive as men, probably more so. As for men being 'designed' to spread their seed, women may well be designed to look for multiple partners and have children with a diverse gene pool. There are certainly good theories that suggest this is the case. Since we know virtually nothing about the evolution of social relationships in early humans its impossible to do anything other than speculate though. 

Men and women aren't as different as you make out and we still dont know to what extent nurture (rather than nature) shapes our gender roles.


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## Goldmember357

mildlyperplexed said:


> Porn is not a physical need, merely a masturbation aid. If a man has a porn 'problem' he needs to take responsibility for himself not shift it onto other people. Suggesting otherwise is unhelpful and very unhealthy.


Men go to porn when they want new excitement in their life, porn is fantasy. I don't care what any guy say's you look at porn because you wish you were having sex with those women either in your real life or some alternate reality. 

Yes its unhealthy to shift the blame, but do not act like men's desire to go to porn due to lack an inadequate amount of sex is absurd. Men get bored and will/can be more inclined to cheat if bored/sexually starved. 



mildlyperplexed said:


> Honestly in my experience women are at least as possessive as men, probably more so. As for men being 'designed' to spread their seed, women may well be designed to look for multiple partners and have children with a diverse gene pool. There are certainly good theories that suggest this is the case. Since we know virtually nothing about the evolution of social relationships in early humans its impossible to do anything other than speculate though.
> 
> Men and women aren't as different as you make out and we still dont know to what extent nurture (rather than nature) shapes our gender roles.


Yes women were "designed" to look for multiple partners and to have a not only diverse but rather strong gene pool. Also these theories are the epitome of what you would call "fact" they would not be theories if they did not pass the scientific method. The scientific theory is the best thing you can get to fact, as nothing in the universe/science can be called "fact". Its ignorant to honestly refer to something as "fact", anything can be dis proven, but if we are to refer to something as "fact" its best we refer to the entity which passes all tests and is explainable/testable and view-able. Furthermore set theory's are to be taken as truth until disproved with evidence, if significant amounts of time goes by and all opposing thoughts/hypothesis cannot disprove the theory, than it stands.

Also how do we not know anything about social relationships? 

And yes we are extremely different. How you attempt to say we are not that different is something i do not understand. UNLESS you are talking on a very broad scale, which i am not. I am talking about physical/biological differences, and that of differences in the brain in current day humans.


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## StillSearching

Goldmember, theories are not taken as truth until proven. That's why they call them theories. One should not go speaking if science and fact without knowing of what science and fact truly consist. Yes there are known facts.


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## StillSearching

Goldmember, theories are not taken as truth until proven. That's why they call them theories. One should not go speaking if science and fact without knowing of what science and fact truly consist. Yes there are known facts.


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## jaharthur

MrBrains said:


> Goldmember, theories are not taken as truth until proven. That's why they call them theories. One should not go speaking if science and fact without knowing of what science and fact truly consist. Yes there are known facts.


Although I might quibble with him a bit, Goldmember is closer to being correct than you, at least when it comes to science.

A great book to read: Thomas Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.

"Fact" in science is simply the theory that best explains observed phenomenon. If a theory that better explains the data is provided, then it becomes scientific "fact."

These "paradigm shifts," as Kuhn calls them, have occurred frequently in the past and will continue to occur, whether we like it or not.


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## Cletus

Ya know, I think I'm just going to stay the hell out of this one and watch it unfold like a dew covered rose on a misty spring morning.

What could possibly go wrong in a porn thread?


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## Therealbrighteyes

Cletus said:


> Ya know, I think I'm just going to stay the hell out of this one and watch it unfold like a dew covered rose on a misty spring morning.
> 
> What could possibly go wrong in a porn thread?


Countdown to Thunderdome in 3, 2, 1......

Care to wager who will come out alive?


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## Eros Turannos

Goldmember357 said:


> I don't care what any guy say's you look at porn because you wish you were having sex with those women either in your real life or some alternate reality.


Really..? Cause I could totally see some guy watching it for it's sheer 'hot' factor. It's suggestive, it gets you thinking about sex in general. Are you saying that all men watching porn are really wanting to actually be having sex with those women every time? I'm sorry, I just find that hard to believe...:scratchhead:


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## Daneosaurus

Goldmember and MrBrains,
Both of you seem a bit confused about the scientific method, so allow me to assist in your understanding.

Laws state that certain phenomena will always occur. Theories are the best known explanations for phenomena. Hypotheses are educated guesses (that's actually not quite accurate, but it's good enough for laymen).

Hypotheses CAN become theories via validation through the scientific method. Theories don't become laws. Laws are a simplistic statement of facts. Theories are the intricate details of those facts.


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## kingsfan

Goldmember357 said:


> Men go to porn when they want new excitement in their life, porn is fantasy. I don't care what any guy say's you look at porn because you wish you were having sex with those women either in your real life or some alternate reality.


I disagree. I have watched porn and pictured my fiancee doing the things in the porn for/to me. I do not want the women in the video herself, just the act being performed.


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## *LittleDeer*

I think your post misses the point about why many women don't like porn or want it in their relationships.

The reasons I don't like it nor want it around, nor think it's healthy are as follows:

Porn does use young women, lots barely 18. I don't spend my time oggling barely legal men with huge c0cks many times a week, so my So does not feel threatened by that, but if I did, I'm sure he would not feel so secure.

many men ask, even on this site questions like "why can't my wife be like a porn star?" So to say many men do not compare the real women in their lives to the women in porn is false.

It is a leading cause in marital dysfunction, with counselours saying men choosing porn over their wives is becomming a huge problem and is leading to a lot of divorces.

Every time we cum we release oxytocin, and if we do it with or thinking about our partners it helps to bond us. Masturbating to porn does not help the bond, rather I believe comes between it.

There are posts on here almost every day, by women who have been replaced by porn, their husbands choose porn over real life sex, it is a huge issue and concern.

The porn industry is not regulated well, they do use underage girls, women are coerced and raped, pushed drugs and alcohol, usually the women come from poor socioecenomic areas and are not ell educated. 

porn commodifies women, and I don't want to be with a man who's Ok with sexually commodifying other human beings.

I don't think people should feel entitled in a committed relationship to use other people for sexual gratification.

Porn effects the neural pathways in the brain and effects how we receive pleasure. It can be very difficult for men, especially those who regularly use porn to orgasm without thinking about the porn they have seen.

I believe for a truly connected and healthy sexual relationship, there should be lots of sex and the focus should be on your partner. If you cannot be together for whatever reason, then masturbation is fine, but my SO and I have phone sex and or masturbate thinking about each other.


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## john_lord_b3

kingsfan said:


> I disagree. I have watched porn and pictured my fiancee doing the things in the porn for/to me. I do not want the women in the video herself, just the act being performed.


:iagree:

I agree with this and understand perfectly. My wife likes seeing Rocco Siffreddi, but she does not want Rocco, she wants me. I like seeing Honey Wilder, but I don't want Wilder, I want my wife. Rocco and Wilder are just spices in our relationship. Rocco and Wilder pumps our bike, but it is us who gets to ride the bike.

Porn can be an additional spice in a good relationship, or a poison in bad relationship.

To each their own. 

Some people, men and women, said "We want our porn!" then so be it.

Some people, men and women, said "we don't want porn, porn are evil!" then so be it.

Just make sure the second group does not control the first group, and vice versa.

I am not into underage porn, but I see nothing wrong with professional adult porn done by professional performers conducted in safe environment.


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## IndyTMI

*LittleDeer* said:


> I think your post misses the point about why many women don't like porn or want it in their relationships.
> 
> The reasons I don't like it nor want it around, nor think it's healthy are as follows:
> 
> Porn does use young women, lots barely 18. I don't spend my time oggling barely legal men with huge c0cks many times a week, so my So does not feel threatened by that, but if I did, I'm sure he would not feel so secure.


I don't spend my porn time oggling over barely legal women with huge breasts many times a week either. I prefer MILFs/more mature women and spend less than 30 mins per week viewing porn.



> many men ask, even on this site questions like "why can't my wife be like a porn star?" So to say many men do not compare the real women in their lives to the women in porn is false.


Some men do, some men don't...I don't fall into this catagory.



> It is a leading cause in marital dysfunction, with counselours saying men choosing porn over their wives is becomming a huge problem and is leading to a lot of divorces.


I agree, that is a huge problem, along with alcohol, drugs, gambling...they can all be problems if they are allowed to become that. Porn itself is not the issue or problem.



> Every time we cum we release oxytocin, and if we do it with or thinking about our partners it helps to bond us. Masturbating to porn does not help the bond, rather I believe comes between it.


I watch porn while thinking about my wife, so it reinforces my bond, not tears it down.



> There are posts on here almost every day, by women who have been replaced by porn, their husbands choose porn over real life sex, it is a huge issue and concern.


And if you look at the AA sites, you'll see the same complaint about any other substance that have replaced a partner.



> The porn industry is not regulated well, they do use underage girls, women are coerced and raped, pushed drugs and alcohol, usually the women come from poor socioecenomic areas and are not ell educated.


You speak of much of the underground porn market which no one can regulate...no law will ever do so. Case in point...pharmaceutical drugs are regulated, but there is still an underground market for it. 



> porn commodifies women, and I don't want to be with a man who's Ok with sexually commodifying other human beings.


Some porn does, not all though..same goes for men that view it.



> I don't think people should feel entitled in a committed relationship to use other people for sexual gratification.


 To each their own.



> Porn effects the neural pathways in the brain and effects how we receive pleasure. It can be very difficult for men, especially those who regularly use porn to orgasm without thinking about the porn they have seen.


Problem for some...I don't have that problem.



> I believe for a truly connected and healthy sexual relationship, there should be lots of sex and the focus should be on your partner. If you cannot be together for whatever reason, then masturbation is fine, but my SO and I have phone sex and or masturbate thinking about each other.


Yep, I can watch porn and think about my wife...what a great release.


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## Disenchanted

I told my significant other "I've given up masturbating for Lent".

She said "Why would anyone, in their right mind, do that?"

I said "because he has access to your body?"


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## bh76

Porn has been great for my marriage. After a short while of watching together we communicate far more openly about sex. My wife actually started wearing stockings and heels and learned awesome bj techniques.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## diwali123

I'm so over this topic right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky

diwali123 said:


> I'm so over this topic right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK. Maybe everything has been said. But it is too bad no one addressed this part of your original post:



> And what man really and truly wants to have real sex with a *** roman **** who has unprotected sex with hundreds of men?


I thought I was aware of all the porn niches, or at least knew how to track one down. But this from the ancients intrigues me, yet, on google seems so elusive.

That you went on to talk about the urns, 
a post later, 


diwali123 said:


> I keep imaging women in ancient times crying and begging their husbands to stop looking at the erotic art on the urn. Lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



So now I am just even more motivated. Maybe I'll try bing... "Ancient Rome porn"

J/k


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## anonim

Tigger said:


> I doubt men would be as forgiving if their wives were spending their sexual attentions on other men.


depends if it was porn men or real men. real men would be a different issue


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## Wiserforit

I can't compete with romance novels. They make me feel insecure, so I pretend that what I am really angry about is that they objectify men. Mere muscle-bound objects on horses, sweeping my innocent wife up and taking her to his millionaire castle.


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## anonim

*LittleDeer* said:


> I think your post misses the point about why many women don't like porn or want it in their relationships.
> 
> The reasons I don't like it nor want it around, nor think it's healthy are as follows:
> 
> Porn does use young women, lots barely 18. I don't spend my time oggling barely legal men with huge c0cks many times a week, so my So does not feel threatened by that, but if I did, I'm sure he would not feel so secure.
> 
> *So you would be ok if the age limit was raised to say, 21? no? well the age is a false issue then, isnt it? But maybe some people are threatened by their spouses looking at porn, though some others arent, I think that in the instance of those who deny/control sex in their relationships have no moral right to say that their partners looking at porn makes them feel bad.*
> 
> many men ask, even on this site questions like "why can't my wife be like a porn star?" So to say many men do not compare the real women in their lives to the women in porn is false.
> 
> *"why can't my wife be like a porn star?" in what context? enjoying sex? wanting sex?*
> 
> It is a leading cause in marital dysfunction, with counselours saying men choosing porn over their wives is becomming a huge problem and is leading to a lot of divorces.
> 
> *Google search says money is the leading cause of marital dysfunction. Habits (which is what porn would fall under) ranks 7th. Not even close to leading.*
> 
> Every time we cum we release oxytocin, and if we do it with or thinking about our partners it helps to bond us. Masturbating to porn does not help the bond, rather I believe comes between it.
> 
> *Belief does not fact make.*
> 
> There are posts on here almost every day, by women who have been replaced by porn, their husbands choose porn over real life sex, it is a huge issue and concern.
> 
> *And do you think are those mens issues? Do they warrant even being acknowledged?*
> 
> The porn industry is not regulated well, they do use underage girls, women are coerced and raped, pushed drugs and alcohol, usually the women come from poor socioecenomic areas and are not ell educated.
> 
> *Most industries are not regulated well either, we just have to avoid the ones that do abuse people. Also honestly, working in porn has to beat being paid $5.15/hour.*
> 
> porn commodifies women, and I don't want to be with a man who's Ok with sexually commodifying other human beings.
> 
> *Porn commodifies the people making the porn, not every single person of the same gender, but let me ask you this; how many women value a man that works > one who doesnt? those who do commodify men. Is that ethical to you?*
> 
> I don't think people should feel entitled in a committed relationship to use other people for sexual gratification.
> 
> *I think that people who think they have the right to determine how other people should feel are more dangerous than 1000 Ron Jeremy's.
> 
> Also, an image of a person is not a person, it is still an image.
> *
> 
> Porn effects the neural pathways in the brain and effects how we receive pleasure. It can be very difficult for men, especially those who regularly use porn to orgasm without thinking about the porn they have seen.
> 
> *Here's the thing, you say that like porn is the only thing that affects the 'neural pathways' of the brain, when the truth is that everything you experience has an effect on your brain. If you look at porn, it affects the neural pathways of your brain. If you look at jumanji it affects the neural pathways of your brain. If you look at TalkAboutMArriage the neural pathways of your brain. See where this is going?*
> 
> I believe for a truly connected and healthy sexual relationship, there should be lots of sex and the focus should be on your partner. If you cannot be together for whatever reason, then masturbation is fine, but my SO and I have phone sex and or masturbate thinking about each other.
> 
> *TMI but good for you! *


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## anonim

Wiserforit said:


> I can't compete with romance novels. They make me feel insecure, so I pretend that what I am really angry about is that they objectify men. Mere muscle-bound objects on horses, sweeping my innocent wife up and taking her to his millionaire castle.


Or twilight.

Or 50 Shades of Grey.


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## carpenoctem

john_lord_b3 said:


> :
> I agree with this and understand perfectly. My wife likes seeing Rocco Siffreddi, but she does not want Rocco, she wants me. I like seeing Honey Wilder, but I don't want Wilder, I want my wife. Rocco and Wilder are just spices in our relationship. Rocco and Wilder pumps our bike, but it is us who gets to ride the bike.
> Porn can be an additional spice in a good relationship, or a poison in bad relationship.



*John:*

This is a fine balance, and working for you and the wife now.

*Q:*
*But if the real Rocco and real Honey were accessible, would they get to ride the bikes?

If you come across lookalikes of Rocco and Honey in your neighbourhood, don't they have a real chance at riding the bikes eventually?* Wouldn’t the bikes have a higher predilection for offering them free rides?

(Because the bikes were already primed for those rides).

That’s where it might bite one in the gluteus.

Just a thought. Don't mean to affront.



*As for me, when I really want some variety, I switch off the porn, and go have sex with my wife. So there.*


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## PieceOfSky

carpenoctem said:


> *As for me, when I really want some variety, I switch off the porn, and go have sex with my wife. So there.*


Sounds interesting. If you ever upload any video thereof, please let (some) of us know!

(That was an attempt to amuse. Perhaps I should get some sleep. )


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## carpenoctem

PieceOfSky said:


> Sounds interesting. If you ever upload any video thereof, please let (some) of us know!
> 
> (That was an attempt to amuse. Perhaps I should get some sleep. )



*then that also becomes porn, right?*

Where is the logic in that?



- I was just being ironical when I said that.
You missed it (not surprising, I guess).


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## PieceOfSky

carpenoctem said:


> *then that also becomes porn, right?*
> 
> Where is the logic in that?
> 
> - I was just being ironical when I said that.
> You missed it (not surprising, I guess).


I was just trying to be silly. But now i am confused, and that just goes to show I shouldn't try to amuse someone I don't know, in a discussion of porn, at 4:00 a.m. I don't know if i have offended you or have seemed ill intended, but I meant nothing like that. All I really wanted to have was a chuckle over the original post's typo: Romans


----------



## johnnycomelately

Tigger said:


> I doubt men would be as forgiving if their wives were spending their sexual attentions on other men.


My wife is free to watch porn. It is her fantasy life. Masturbation is legal and healthy.


----------



## johnnycomelately

*LittleDeer* said:


> It is a leading cause in marital dysfunction, with counselours saying men choosing porn over their wives is becomming a huge problem and is leading to a lot of divorces.


I'm glad to see that you have given up on your 'porn makes men more likely to rape' and other slanderous and easily falsifiable arguments, but you are still making assertions that aren't borne out by verifiable facts. Porn isn't even mentioned in the top reasons given for divorce:

_*University of Utah *- www.divorce.usu.edu

Researchers have identified the most common reasons people give for their divorces. A recent national survey(79) found that the most common reason given for divorce was “lack of commitment” (73% said this was a major reason). Other significant reasons included too much arguing (56%), infidelity (55%), marrying too young (46%), unrealistic expectations (45%), lack of equality in the relationship (44%), lack of preparation for marriage (41%), and abuse (29%). (People often give more than one reason, so the percentages add up to more than 100%.)

*About.com:*

The Major Causes of Divorce:


Laziness

 Lack of Communication Skills

 High Expectations

*Pennsylvania State University:*

Kitson (1992) 

Commitment to work 
Personality
Problems with in-laws 
Drinking
External events 
Out with the boys
Wife’s extramarital sex 
Husband’s extramarital sex
Don’t know 
Sexual problems
Economic nonsupport
Untrustworthy or immature

*Australian Divorce Transition Project:*

Affective issues
Communication problems 
Incompatability / ‘drifted apart' 
Spouse had an affair 
Abusive behaviours
Physical violence to you or children 
Alcohol/drug abuse 
Emotional and/or verbal abuse 
External pressures
Financial problems 
Work/time 
Family interference 
Physical/mental health 
Other
Spouse's personality 
Children problems 
Other 
_

If this is becoming a 'huge' problem why isn't it even mentioned in the top reasons for divorce?


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## john_lord_b3

carpenoctem said:


> *John:*
> 
> This is a fine balance, and working for you and the wife now.
> 
> *Q:
> But if the real Rocco and real Honey were accessible, would they get to ride the bikes?
> 
> If you come across lookalikes of Rocco and Honey in your neighbourhood, don't they have a real chance at riding the bikes eventually?* Wouldn’t the bikes have a higher predilection for offering them free rides?
> 
> (Because the bikes were already primed for those rides).
> 
> That’s where it might bite one in the gluteus.
> 
> Just a thought. Don't mean to affront.
> 
> *As for me, when I really want some variety, I switch off the porn, and go have sex with my wife. So there.*


Good question! 

No, I don't think Mr. Siffreddi and Ms. Wilder's lookalikes would get the chance to ride our bikes. Fantasy is fantasy. Reality is reality, and the reality is that my love for my wife overrides my desire to look at other woman. Either that, or I'm just getting old and nothing improves with age. Ouch! 🤣

In fact I'd rather meet the real stars. Perhaps we'd get an autograph!


----------



## Wiserforit

johnnycomelately said:


> If this is becoming a 'huge' problem why isn't it even mentioned in the top reasons for divorce?


Follow the money.

The porn and romance novel industry money has kept the lid on this, and only serves to demonstrate how huge a problem it has become.


----------



## carpenoctem

PieceOfSky said:


> I was just trying to be silly. But now i am confused, and that just goes to show I shouldn't try to amuse someone I don't know, in a discussion of porn, at 4:00 a.m. I don't know if i have offended you or have seemed ill intended, but I meant nothing like that. All I really wanted to have was a chuckle over the original post's typo: Romans



Spontaneous lie: no, I wasn’t offended.

Reluctant Truth: I WAS a tad offended.

Immediate after-thought: It’s too short a life.

*Friends?*



While on the topic:

Signs Your Partner is Addicted to Internet Porn:

- During foreplay, he's always double-clicking your G-spot.

- His new computer includes a DVD-ROM drive, a 56k modem, *and a tissue dispenser.*

- When she wants you to take off your pants, she says, "Scroll down."

*- He's suing Playboy.com for repetitive stress injuries.*

- You look deep into his eyes and see a faint image of Jenna Jameson burned into his corneas.

- As you undress, he takes out his credit card and tells you his birth date

*- During sex, he shouts, "Refresh! Refresh!"*


----------



## TheCrunch

I guess women wouldn't feel quite so threatened by glamourous porn stars if early on as adolescent girls/teenagers they had been educated that porn sex is not real sex. 

Once the rot has set into our brains, even when we know it's not real, it's still hard to quash the notion that we are inferior - at least for some of us anyway.

Should you be Talking to your children/teenagers about Porn?


----------



## PieceOfSky

carpenoctem said:


> Spontaneous lie: no, I wasn’t offended.
> 
> Reluctant Truth: I WAS a tad offended.
> 
> Immediate after-thought: It’s too short a life.
> 
> *Friends?*
> 
> 
> [/SIZE][/B]


Yes. That is quite kind of you and gives me some relief, as I'm a bit embarrassed by the inappropriateness of what I said, and then frustrated or confused about my embarrassment. In case it's still not clear, I was just trying to play along with a joke I thought you were making, or that is what I'm trying to tell myself. But, I shouldn't have involved you or yours in the picture I was trying to paint. Also, though I've given you no reason to know whether this is true or not, I would not seriously propose anyone post anything like that!

Also, I'll confess a bit of envy at the notion a man can just go have sex with his wife, as it painfully is not an option to me. Apparently not even a medium-passion kiss lasting more than 12 seconds. (That's a different thread.)

I will say I don't see porn or masturbation as a problem in and of itself in my life and marriage, for a variety of reasons I don't care to elaborate on this thread. But I do sometimes feel its one of the ways I have kept myself alive, partially alleviated depression, and have managed to stay in the marriage while struggling to find fix for our fundamental issues.

Peace.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

john_lord_b3 said:


> I don't mind my wife watching porn and having a favorite pornstar, if that's what you mean. She likes Rocco Siffreddi,* and I don't mind, because Mr. Siffreddi is just a fantasy, and I am real.. no competition *


My husband feels the same way... I think I LIKE it more than he does ...he'll lay next to me real close... I might start out on my stomach looking up at the screen, he seems to enjoy watching me WATCH IT...he is like breathing on me..

I looked him in the eyes one day nose to nose serious as sin...and said...." does it bother you I enjoy this, looking at these other men?"... he says... "Are you sneaking out during the day to go to the studio & I don't know about it ?" something crazy like that... his point was.. .so long as he is the only one I am doing it with, I can knock myself out. 

I feel the same about him too...this has never hurt our emotional intimacy in any way, shape or form....it has given me new ideas though ~ which I love.


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## DTO

Wiserforit said:


> Follow the money.
> 
> The porn and romance novel industry money has kept the lid on this, and only serves to demonstrate how huge a problem it has become.


So now there's a conspiracy?


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## Kobo

Wiserforit said:


> Follow the money.
> 
> The porn and romance novel industry money has kept the lid on this, and only serves to demonstrate how huge a problem it has become.


Lawd have mercy


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## johnnycomelately

TheCrunch said:


> I guess women wouldn't feel quite so threatened by glamourous porn stars if early on as adolescent girls/teenagers they had been educated that porn sex is not real sex.
> 
> Once the rot has set into our brains, even when we know it's not real, it's still hard to quash the notion that we are inferior - at least for some of us anyway.


Well, modern porn features all shapes and sizes, so if you feel inferior to porn actresses you feel inferior to all women. I, for one, never watch barbie-doll type porn. This idea that all porn actresses are perfect is fallacious.


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## diwali123

I do wonder if their man watched BBW only porn would that make them feel better?


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## CallaLily

TheCrunch said:


> that porn sex is not real sex.
> 
> What? :scratchhead:You mean that guy really wasn't sticking his nob into her hooha? It wasn't real? Ohhhhh Noooo say it aint so! :rofl:


----------



## carpenoctem

PieceOfSky said:


> Yes. That is quite kind of you and gives me some relief, as I'm a bit embarrassed by the inappropriateness of what I said, and then frustrated or confused about my embarrassment. In case it's still not clear, I was just trying to play along with a joke I thought you were making, or that is what I'm trying to tell myself. But, I shouldn't have involved you or yours in the picture I was trying to paint. Also, though I've given you no reason to know whether this is true or not, I would not seriously propose anyone post anything like that!
> 
> 
> _Sky: kind words. Thank you. It's all fine._
> 
> 
> Also, I'll confess a bit of envy at the notion a man can just go have sex with his wife, as it painfully is not an option to me. Apparently not even a medium-passion kiss lasting more than 12 seconds. (That's a different thread.)
> 
> 
> _Ouch. That really hurt. Are you still with her, if I may ask?_


----------



## tacoma

mildlyperplexed said:


> Really? I don't see any threads started by jealous husbands complaining that their wife has a crush on a celebrity etc. In fact theres been a few posts recently where guys have been enjoying their wife's improved sex drive as a result of such a crush.
> 
> mmm Professor Brian Cox <3
> 
> Ladies if you don't know who he is you should look him up



They're here and actually more numerous than I would have thought.

Not nearly as numerous as the husband and porn threads no.


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## Ano

Is there really even such a thing as competing with porn? We are here in the flesh. Porn is just on a screen. Why a man would ever permanently choose porn over a real woman doesn't even seem logical. 

Porn is a fantasy. We are reality. So where's the competition?


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## that_girl

I don't compete with tired looking women. 

I know what I am and how I can work it  Rawr. Bring it.


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## PieceOfSky

Yes, I'm still with her, for just over 20 years now. Thinking we just hit bottom. I'm intending to bounce.


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## Shaggy

Sorry, what exactly does Dan know about women in porn ? He's very much gay, and frankly Dan knows squat about how a straight man sees porn.


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## tacoma

Women just need to step up their game.


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## anonim

Shaggy said:


> *Sorry, what exactly does Dan know about women in porn ? *He's very much gay, and frankly *Dan knows squat about how a straight man sees porn.*


Any human can make observations.


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## lifeistooshort

Everytime a see a porn discussion I laugh because I have a friend that I've known since 3rd grade that runs a porn site and she looks NOTHING like she does on the site. It's so heavily altered that if she stood in front of you while you looked at her on the site you would have no idea it's her. She has a biography on her site and everything in it is a lie. I know that on some level most people know these porn stars don't really exist, and the real people are radically different, but I've seen this first hand. On a side now I recently saw an interview with Jenna Jameson and two things struck me about her. One was that she is really smart and the other was that she looks ridiculous from all the plastic surgery she's had, even in her face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

What bugs me more is when porn stars keep trying to compete with ME! I'll be all like "Was that girl like, peeping into my bedroom all night before she made this film? As if she thought up that triple gainer move on her own. I deserve royalties!"

Sheesh! I have tried to put copyrights on my best moves but the US Copyright office keeps telling me to stop calling them.


----------



## Kobo

Faithful Wife said:


> What bugs me more is when porn stars keep trying to compete with ME! I'll be all like "Was that girl like, peeping into my bedroom all night before she made this film? As if she thought up that triple gainer move on her own. I deserve royalties!"
> 
> Sheesh! I have tried to put copyrights on my best moves but the US Copyright office keeps telling me to stop calling them.


I'll need full descriptions of sad moves to know if you have a case...


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## PieceOfSky

Kobo said:


> I'll need full descriptions of sad moves to know if you have a case...


Please fix your "sad" typo!

Didn't sound sad at all to me


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## Shaggy

anonim said:


> Any human can make observations.


Sure, but it doesn't mean they will get it right.


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## anonim

Shaggy said:


> Sure, but it doesn't mean they will get it right.


correct, but capacity of making sound judgments is not based on sexual orientation.


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## diwali123

That's very true, he is very gay. He was talking about how in gay relationships porn isn't an issue. Honestly it's been a while and I can't remember exactly the whole show. 
But I think it is interesting. Why aren't gay men intimidated by their partner watching porn? 
I don't think there are gay guys here so it's kind of a mute point.


----------



## Shaggy

Dan is also a strong proponent of poly relationships and other destructive stuff. The dude is just another idiot that the 20 something's all tout as knowing everything possible about sex.

The reddit crowd drools upon the hallowed ground he farts on.


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## diwali123

I don't know what the Reddit crowd is and I just started listening to him because I was bored at work. 
You know what? The only happy poly couple I knew are now separated. But most of the monogamous couple I know are divorced too. So it seems like a wash.


----------



## anonim

diwali123 said:


> That's very true, he is very gay. He was talking about how in gay relationships porn isn't an issue. Honestly it's been a while and I can't remember exactly the whole show.
> But I think it is interesting. *Why aren't gay men intimidated by their partner watching porn? *
> I don't think there are gay guys here so it's kind of a mute point.


I suspect its because they arent taught to be intimidated by it.


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## diwali123

I remember in sixth grade we had the "porn suck" talk in school. They took all the gay guys out and had a cooking lesson.


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## tulsy

Wiserforit said:


> I can't compete with romance novels. They make me feel insecure, so I pretend that what I am really angry about is that they objectify men.


Brilliant.


----------



## johnnycomelately

Shaggy said:


> Dan is also a strong proponent of poly relationships and other destructive stuff. The dude is just another idiot that the 20 something's all tout as knowing everything possible about sex.
> 
> The reddit crowd drools upon the hallowed ground he farts on.


Well, I am forty-something and I love Dan Savage. 

He co-founded the 'It Gets Better, project' which helps gay teens who are bullied. 

As for being a proponent of 'destructive stuff' if you call the freedom to choose your own lifestyle destructive, then yes, he is. 

The world would be a better place if there were more 'idiots' like Dan Savage committed to helping vulnerable minority groups and the freedom of adults to choose how they live.


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## wifenumber2

Porn has been around and will continue to be around long after I am gone. I think it has it's place. Like all things, exercise moderation and common sense. My issue: when some people can't separate the fantasy from reality and that spills into the marriage/relationship and the spouse/SO will try their hardest to please their partner but will never be good enough because the bar is set so high due to fantasy...as I remind my H "A porn star's job is sex. They can focus on that while the rest of us have real issues that may preclude us from being "on the ready to deliver on demand at any time the fantasy they see in porn".


----------



## Shaggy

He about how guys are supposed to compete with the vamp-pirn/bsdm novels where the guy is rich, sparkles , is pretty much indestructible, and wait for it, has her quiver and melt at his perfectly timed, perfectly given touch.

The biggest difference between girls in porn and girls in real life is their level of engagement. Porn chicks never ever just lay there, porn chicks never say its getting late, lets hurry up. Nope, porn chicks are eager and engaged in the activity. They are equal partners in making the fun time fun.

And I think that's why a lot of women feel threatened by the porn stuff. They don't want to be open and eager all the time, it's too much work. Also in many long term relationships, the woman fears that she will loose power if hubby gets it anytime he wants. So she keeps the door closed and only opens it when he has jumped through enough hoops. Where as porn chicks give it up on demand, or at least when hubby fires up the computer.

And it's that available anytime feature of porn that threatens women in relationships the most. They loose a lot of motivating control over hubby if he isn't dependent on their good will.


----------



## Shaggy

johnnycomelately said:


> Well, I am forty-something and I love Dan Savage.
> 
> He co-founded the 'It Gets Better, project' which helps gay teens who are bullied.
> 
> As for being a proponent of 'destructive stuff' if you call the freedom to choose your own lifestyle destructive, then yes, he is.
> 
> The world would be a better place if there were more 'idiots' like Dan Savage committed to helping vulnerable minority groups and the freedom of adults to choose how they live.


Yeah Dan has helped bullied gay teens. The problem is that Dan and his followers have also destroyed at bunch of relationships by pushing people into feeling if they don't engage in and support crisp like poly relationships that they are now the ones in the wrong.

The whole "monogamy" is unnatural and something forced upon you by evil people has destroyed many many relationships by either encouraging folks to cheat to be hip, or by silencing those being cheated on because they fear being shouted down by the Dan crowd.

Every time I hear "sex positive" said, I hear an echo "relationship negative"


----------



## johnnycomelately

Shaggy said:


> Yeah Dan has helped bullied gay teens. The problem is that Dan and his followers have also destroyed at bunch of relationships by pushing people into feeling if they don't engage in and support crisp like poly relationships that they are now the ones in the wrong.


I have listened to and read Dan Savage for three years and I have never heard him push anyone into anything except honesty. Find a recording or blog entry that shows him pushing people into engaging in poly or open marriage, or to cheat and I will apologise, send you a gift token and promise never to listen to Dan Savage again. 



Shaggy said:


> The whole "monogamy" is unnatural and something forced upon you by evil people has destroyed many many relationships by either encouraging folks to cheat to be hip, or by silencing those being cheated on because they fear being shouted down by the Dan crowd.
> 
> Every time I hear "sex positive" said, I hear an echo "relationship negative"


'Evil people' 'pushing' and 'destroying'. There is no conspiracy to turn people gay, poly or bi. People are fighting for equality, that is all.

As for monogamy being natural, there is so much evidence to show that it is not that it is almost impossible to argue against.

Have a look at this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/61999-natural-stay-faithful-3.html#post1252223

The mistake you are making is thinking that people who say monogamy is not natural are against monogamy. If we are to be monogamous, and I think we should be, we have to know what we are fighting against. That is six million years of human evolution and more. Denying that we have a natural urge to have sex with more than one partner is sticking our heads in the sand and the result is all too obvious all around you (take a look at the CwI thread).

Natural = good, unnatural = bad is simplistic and fallacious. War is natural, tobacco is natural, death is natural. Admitting these things is the first step to conquering them, not advocating them.


----------



## anonim

that thread was a very good read johnny ^^ ty


----------



## Shaggy

Clearly we will never agree.

But it seems incomprehensible to say "X is unnatural, but down worry no one is saying they are against X"

Just curious Johnny, do you hang on reddit? Your arguments sound family like we've both read the same propganda but came to different conclusions.


----------



## johnnycomelately

Shaggy said:


> Clearly we will never agree.
> 
> But it seems incomprehensible to say "X is unnatural, but down worry no one is saying they are against X"
> 
> Just curious Johnny, do you hang on reddit? Your arguments sound family like we've both read the same propganda but came to different conclusions.


No, I've never seen Reddit. And I don't read 'propaganda'. My arguments are my own.

So, if I say that measles is natural I am pro-measles?


----------



## anonim

Shaggy said:


> Clearly we will never agree.
> 
> But it seems incomprehensible to say "*X is unnatural, but down worry no one is saying they are against X*"
> 
> Just curious Johnny, *do you hang on reddit?* Your arguments sound family like we've both read the same propganda but came to different conclusions.


"not natural" and "unnatural" are different IMO, unnatural is being against the nature of X, for example herbivore tigers, since tigers whole physiology is geared towards catching, killing and eating other animals. 

Where as 'not natural' is something that we are not inherently geared for but not necessarily geared against like say driving a car.

And reddit has many, many, many subforums which house people of many, many, many differing ideologies, so to ask if someone reddits because they have a certain opinion on something is meaningless.



johnnycomelately said:


> No, I've never seen Reddit. *And I don't read 'propaganda'*. My arguments are my own.
> 
> So, if I say that measles is natural I am pro-measles?


Heh, we all read propaganda, just some people see it for what it is.


----------



## diwali123

Thanks for the reddit comment, now I have a new time waster!


----------



## Kobo

diwali123 said:


> Thanks for the reddit comment, now I have a new time waster!


It'll be good for a while then you'll see that its filled with too many people that haven't made their first mortgage payment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Kobo said:


> It'll be good for a while then you'll see that its filled with too many people that haven't made their first mortgage payment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or possibly ever will have a job that pays more than minimum wage. Way too many bowl smokers with free time over there.


----------



## anonim

Kobo said:


> It'll be good for a while then you'll see that its filled with too many people that haven't made their first mortgage payment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Shaggy said:


> Or possibly ever will have a job that pays more than minimum wage. Way too many bowl smokers with free time over there.


it depends on which forums you choose to frequent.

Something similar might be said of TAM or any of its subforums, or any other forum online for that matter.


----------



## tacoma

anonim said:


> it depends on which forums you choose to frequent.
> 
> Something similar might be said of TAM or any of its subforums, or any other forum online for that matter.


This is true, there are worthy sub-reddits but from my experience hanging out there I think shaggy has a pretty well founded opinion of the site as a whole.


----------



## Shaggy

Hey at least it isn't digg!


----------



## anonim

Shaggy said:


> Hey at least it isn't digg!


lol!


----------



## john_lord_b3

Ano said:


> Is there really even such a thing as competing with porn? We are here in the flesh. Porn is just on a screen. Why a man would ever permanently choose porn over a real woman doesn't even seem logical.
> 
> Porn is a fantasy. We are reality. So where's the competition?


:iagree::smthumbup:


----------

