# How much evidence is enough?



## Singledude21 (Feb 21, 2013)

One thing I notice is that majority of you guys here seem to need that complete verification, that mental clarity of actually seeing or hearing something to finally conclude she or he cheated on you.

What drives you to want to know? For me, I guess I can be very cold in situations like this. I can understand being completely in the dark, but if you just see the signs:

-Following the script
-Being very secretive with their phone
-Long amounts of time away with no contact 
-General bad gut feeling

For me, I guess I don't even need VARs or stuff like that, I'm gonna straight disconnect from the relationship then and there. Maybe I guess I refuse to acknowledge it and just try my best to avoid pain and being hurt.

What drives you to want to know, as painful as it can be?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Singledude21 said:


> -Following the script
> -Being very secretive with their phone
> -Long amounts of time away with no contact
> -General bad gut feeling
> ...


Its subjective to each individual.

Those things you listed may be good signs but they can't prove beyond all doubt that a spouse is cheating. For some people, the pain of not knowing haunts them for a long time.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> -Following the script
> -Being very secretive with their phone
> -Long amounts of time away with no contact
> -General bad gut feeling


cheaters are always good liers, and master the art of manipulation, deceit, and blame. all the points you exposed are subjetives, even if you are sure she/he is cheating if you have nothing concrete, did you really will be able to make a life change decission with intuition and gut feelings?

let say you have a 20 years marriage, 3 kids and you are sure your wife is cheating for the reasons you posted above, would you really have the face to confront your childs and tell them, yes son/daughter I will break the family appart, move on and begin to date because I a sure your mother/father is cheating because:
-she/he Follow the script of cheaters
-seems to be very secretive with her/him phone
-she/he expends amounts of time away with no contact 
-I have a bad gut feeling

I have no further proofs but I have decided to divorce under those assumptions.

do you know how many excuses can cheters invent for thos points you stated?
do you know who the kids, family and friends will blame for the break of the marriage if you divore under those assumptions?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Singledude21 said:


> One thing I notice is that majority of you guys here seem to need that complete verification, that mental clarity of actually seeing or hearing something to finally conclude she or he cheated on you.
> 
> What drives you to want to know? For me, I guess I can be very cold in situations like this. I can understand being completely in the dark, but if you just see the signs:
> 
> ...


I've been cheated by two people. Both times I never had a clue things were "bad" thought everything was fine. The first time I found out was by mistake, she wrote it in a diary. The second time(s) were when I was stuck at home and she was picking up a bloke she worked with, mind you the drive itself was about 30 minutes, she took up to and over an hour.

Reality is, if you're in love or co-dependent, what do you do with just suspicion and conjecture? With some people even hard evidence is not enough.

Some people need to know everything so it gives them the push to walk away. 
Some people need to know everything because the truth will set them free and begin the process of healing. 
Some people need to know everything so that the veil of whiter than white is finally lifting and they know who their partner really .

I would say now. Even if she's raising white flags and there's a tiny hint of pink, she's gone. It's harsh but cheating has shorn the scales from my eyes. Zero tolerance


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

For me what drove me to want to know was simple. After spending 20+ years living in the same home (that we built together) sleeping in the same bed. The first outright lie was like a slap across my face. He never lied before he was never "that guy".

After that lie I went numb but I didn't let on anything was wrong. I just started looking at more things that didn't make sense (and he had brushed off) . The next pieces were easy look at my phone records and look at his texts (some came right up on my iPad).

Then I found the advice about the VAR weightlifter spelled it out perfectly. I decided I really needed to know I needed to hear. He was gas lighting and making me feel insane.

Getting confirmation that I was being lied to by the person I'm supposed to trust most in the world sucked. The day I saw the phone records and realized who it was. I was fetal. Curled up in a ball. My ears wouldn't stop ringing. I cancelled my day and took that day to keep planning what to do. But I needed the whole truth at that point. I'm not taking the word of a known liar.

I'm still very early in the game after all this. Just a few months out of exposure, NC and agreeing to try R. I'm not sure what is next. This f'ed ny pretty little world right up. But I'm glad I know the truth. In previous relationships if something was off or I thought I was unsure of anything, I'd just go dark. I dumped two guys I was engaged to that way. They came home to a ring on the table and my things gone. I didn't have the time invested then. I never married them. So for me to do the same thing was impossible. I had a whole life of memories and finances and legal steps to take to undo this. So I wanted to know how big and bad the lie was.


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## beautiful_day (Mar 28, 2013)

As well as the above, I think I wanted to know every detail because unconsciously I was trying to control a situation where I couldn't possibly gain control. 

Somewhere in my mind I was trying to prevent it from happening again, by constantly analyzing the details. 

I'd come to sites like this to try to fill in the gaps in my understanding. If I were and expert on their relationship, on his betrayal of me, and of adultery, perhaps I could keep myself safe from it.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

beautiful_day said:


> As well as the above, I think I wanted to know every detail because unconsciously I was trying to control a situation where I couldn't possibly gain control.
> 
> Somewhere in my mind I was trying to prevent it from happening again, by constantly analyzing the details.
> 
> I'd come to sites like this to try to fill in the gaps in my understanding. If I were and expert on their relationship, on his betrayal of me, and of adultery, perhaps I could keep myself safe from it.


Right, I felt that way also. I still analyze the details. 

Like last time we spoke about it I brought up that POSOW has a specific pattern and type. He balked and didn't get it. I pointed out men in her past that all fit the same type, older, rich execs (some of them dumb enough to hire her many helped her career). I saw the light bulb go on. I guess he thought he was so special.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Singledude21 said:


> One thing I notice is that majority of you guys here seem to need that complete verification, that mental clarity of actually seeing or hearing something to finally conclude she or he cheated on you.
> 
> What drives you to want to know? For me, I guess I can be very cold in situations like this. I can understand being completely in the dark, but if you just see the signs:
> 
> ...


In many ways I wish my brain was wired like yours, would have saved me years of torment.

But to answer your question, I had dealt with my wife too many times, with solid evidence and she just lied about it. I was fed up with all the lies and the VAR of her having sex proved to me, our sons, her family that I was not crazy as she was trying to make me look, "crazy". And at first she told me I was crazy, that it was just "music", convinced my son that "Dad, lost it". My son asked for the recording and I sent him a portion and he knew that it was his mother having sex and he was able to convince his mother's family that "Dad, is not nuts".

I did it more for my kids, because they would not believe their mother would do this.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

SingleDude21,

Simple... Your Single.

The whole thought process changes after years of Marriage, Kids, Mortgage, Family.


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## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

RWB said:


> SingleDude21,
> 
> Simple... Your Single.
> 
> The whole thought process changes after years of Marriage, Kids, Mortgage, Family.


Too true...
The person who started this post more than likely has none of the above.
When you do and you trust and love your spouse so faithfully, it cuts you so deep and you can't understand how/why the supposed love of your life betrayed not just you but their kids, family and your bond that you thought was everything solid. So I suppose it's only natural to try n gather evidence and try to make sense of something so unbelievably incomprehensible?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

RWB said:


> SingleDude21,
> 
> Simple... Your Single.
> 
> The whole thought process changes after years of Marriage, Kids, Mortgage, Family.


Ditto.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

There are two levels of absolute proof.
The first is say VARs confirming. They want to be dead sure not 99% sure just in case they are wrong dont want to nuke an innocent spouse.
The second is even higher. This is a small minority mostly in the SE US where cheating DOES have an effect. This is called court worthy proof and involves PIs or pics or....


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