# Should I be concerned?



## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Hello All! There have been some online/email things (that I know of) that my wife has done/is doing and I'm fearful that things are going to end poorly for the marriage. I believe my wife is engaing (or planning to) in a EA. A brief history as follows...

My wife and I have been together a total of 10+ years. We have been married for roughly half of them. A few years ago we had suffered some major financial difficulties, but some actions took place before that. Also, I have a child (12) who was born from a previous failed marriage that I have joint custody and visitation of. I know, I know, before you say it may be me (as opposed to bad luck), the first failed marriage was a Jerry Springer/Maury Povich "You are the Father" type of deal where the paternity was in question so divorce was the logical decision for me.

Ok, now for my story (try to keep it to the short version)

I constantly am at odds and in court with my ex-wife. I am convinced that she hates me more than loves our son and must have figured that her adulterous behavior could be overlooked. She does all she can to attempt to limit and keep my son from me, but I have good lawyers (and the large bills to prove it!). My currect spouse hates my ex-spouse because of the way it impacts my son from the first marriage, that and she loves him very much. The ex-spouse thing is a major stressor to the marriage. My wife, in an attempt to do who knows what (says she was mad at me), completed a dating profile on Yahoo (back when they had that sort of thing) and at Match.com. Of course I found out (am a strong computer user) and noticed she didn't want kids and stated she was single...

...I have no idea if she ever met anybody either online or in person. When I confronted her with the information, she told me it had to do with the ex-spouse situation and wanted to get back at me because she "just knew I'd find out" (given I am computer talented let's say). With no proof of anything other than the profile page, I skeptically believed her and things became better with the relationship (we talked more, more affectionate, etc...).

Fast forward a few years to present: We had major financial difficulties due to the legal bills fighting for more visitation and to better the parenting plan and parenting agreement. We have addressed the money concerns and are recovering and will pull through. My wife and I both want children with one another. It took nearly 2.5 years for us to finally have one, but not after many IVF and infertility treatments (causing more bills) not to mention the pregnancy was high-risk and didn't go smooth (not to worry, our now 1 year old is in great health with no abnormalities!). 

Post pregnancy, the marriage has suffered due to both of us working non-traditional jobs/hours. I can count on one hand the number of times we were intimate the past year. It is tough as we are always tired, exhausted, blah blah blah. Our little boy means the world to us and we don't put him with a sitter so my wife and I can have an evening out given how difficult it was to conceive and the road once we finally were able. I never suspected anything was going on with her until one day I left my laptop open and noticed she was reading all of my emails (fishing? curious? who knows, not this issue) as she forgot to close all the tabs she opened when she walked away. 

One day, I went to pay a bill online and needed her email password to reset a forgot password to the bill paying site. I took the opportunity to view her emails since she has recently done so with me. What I found was an email chain between her and her last boyfriend from 10 years ago! I dind't seem too cordial and sounded like the OM was not interested/eager to converse with my wife. Disturbing was the fact that it was my wife who went out and found the OM's email address and contacted him!!! What I did learn was that the OM acknowledged getting X-Mas cards from my wife!!!!!! Also, my wife told the OM what she now does and shared her feelings of life with him which he could still care less about. She contacted her ex via email 3 days before my birthday (and 5 months since the birth of our child) !

But wait, there's more: 2 days before X-Mas my wife gets a strange letter in the mail with an old address of hers crossed-out and her current address listed. I didn't question, ask, snoop, etc... just made a mental note. A few days later, my wife says to me, over the phone, 'Oh, forgot to mention, this guy (not the ex from 10 yrs/ago) I used to correspond with in the military contacted me' followed by 'it's nothing, but wanted you to know' type of speech. As of today (right now) I have checked her email and found what appears at present, harmless getting to know you dialogue between the two of them. She told this OM2 she is married, has kids, where she works, and the content seems similar to things she would most likely say to me. It appears by the evolving tone she is more comfortable sharing more and more emotions with OM2. What bugs me is she emailed him on X-Mas Eve, X-Mas Day, New Year's, and a few times in between asking him lots of questions about his life and asked for his address to a house he is moving to (many miles and states away). Furthermore, I notice that she is emailing him at 4 in the morning while she is at work, and to compare/contrast, NEVER did that with me. I fear she is headed for and more than willing to partake in a EA. Am I wrong? 

I did find that letter and it was a hey, thought about you and thought I'd look you up and here's my contact info.

Lastly, my wife tells me she wants to get a facebook page to talk about the "news and current events". She maintains a bogus facebook page which she tells me is to 'spy on people' like the ex-spouse and keep tabs what info. she posts about my 12 year old. Given the recent event(s) and past events, I accessed her facebook page with her email and found that indeed no info about my wife is available (she even gave a different date of birth then hers) nor does she have any "friends". I did however find that my wife routinely, almost daily, searches the pages of her past lovers/interests and their families. This further suggests that more is going on then I am being told. I did also notice that this OM2 is a contact in her phone, but only using initials and not a name like everyone else in the contacts. I pay the bill and nothing is revelaed in the phone. message, or data records (yet, I fear).

SO...should I be worried? What should I do? What should I watch for? What is your take on this?

I don't want to confront her yet without anything really happening, or at least proof thereof, plus she will then change passwords, only access things from her phone, etc...

Thank You for taking the time to read this post (and putting up with) the obvious over-use of hyphenated words and parentheses.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

The good news is that you have no solid proof of an affair, either emotional or physical. The bad news is that it looks like you're Plan B and your wife is trolling for a Plan A.

So you don't necessarily need to act today, but you need to act. And you need to act decisively.

Don't worry about passwords. In a marriage, privacy is fine. Privacy means closing the door when you're in the bathroom. Secrecy, which is not allowing your spouse to see your phone/email/Facebook activity, is NOT cool. So if your wife tries to change her passwords, you just tell her to give you the new passwords, or you'll help her pack.

The way you quash a potential affair is by going ape man. Pure alpha. You need to scare her. Not necessarily that you're going to get physical with her. But that there is absolutely no chance that you're going to allow her to email her exes and live in your house at the same time.

If you come on real strong now, you can probably end anything before it gets going. But waiting is a dangerous game.

And you may want to put keylogger software on your home PC to check for secret email addresses you don't know about. Some disloyal spouses use those for affairs. Also, a voice-activated recorder (VAR) under the seat of her car will record any phone calls she makes when she believes she has a good place for secrecy.

I also recommend www.marriedmansexlife.com for some good information on marriage in general. He has a few blog posts on affairs and how to either head them off, or deal with the aftermath.

Good luck.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Yeah, you need to be worried. Your wife is working up to an affair. Your wife is losing interest in you as a worthy sex partner. Sorry.



whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> Post pregnancy, the marriage has suffered due to both of us working non-traditional jobs/hours. I can count on one hand the number of times we were intimate the past year. It is tough as we are always tired, exhausted, blah blah blah. Our little boy means the world to us and we don't put him with a sitter so my wife and I can have an evening out given how difficult it was to conceive and the road once we finally were able.


The best thing you can do for your son is to raise him in a loving two parent household. No way to keep that unless you make your wife and your together time a priority. You can't have what you want. Gonna have to find a relative or a sitter and get away. Every week, ideally, with some weekenders thrown in. 

After fixing the above, you need to get your sex rank up by getting in top shape (waist 32 or better) and start dressing sharper.

As PHTL says, above download and read MMSL, and do it tonight. You would also do well to start studying the REAL dynamic in the battle of the sexes, which is female hypergamy. Where are you in the Male Hierarchy? While these are directed at single men, The Sixteen Commandments also apply in long term relationships.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback thus far!

@PHTlump - have a keylogger in place already, considering HelloSpy for mobile phone. Checking mobile records with carrier shows nothing unusual yet. As far as a VAR goes, will strongly consider and definently use once the phone records go a different way. Thank you for the advice and I agree, I need to address this soon!

@Machiavelli I understand what you are saying. Less time together with me can/will mean more time for the OM+. I will check out the articles you recommend!


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

***Quick Update***

I just checked my wife's email (she's at work) and found that she just sent another email to the newest 'email guy' at 4:30. The tone wasn't terrible, although different than how she speaks to me. I didn't know that speaks like a teenage girl (i.e. BAHAHAHAHA, and LOL and such). What was weird is that she remarked that she onlly aksed his marital/dating status so that she wouldn't get another woman mad at her (Wow, how about another guy, like your husband) and went on to share feelings of the past that aren't shared with or spoken to me, not to mention that her employer has a no cell phone/no email rule while at work.

This frustrates me to no end! If I would have known that she would contact ex-boyfriends, check on past lovers on Facebook, and have a email dialogue with some ex-military dude, we would not have struggled through IVF for a child.

I am strongly considering emailing the OM and letting him know that I'm aware what is happening and tell him how, in the past, this woman has created dating profiles and now also checks your Facebook, along with past romantic interets, almost daily and emails you on the Holidays and from places she must feel safe doing so from like from her cell phone and while at work which is possibly jeopardizing her job.

I will update when I do something/something changes, but in the meanwhile I appreciate the feedback and input thus far!!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> I am strongly considering emailing the OM and letting him know that I'm aware what is happening and tell him how, in the past, this woman has created dating profiles and now also checks your Facebook, along with past romantic interets, almost daily and emails you on the Holidays and from places she must feel safe doing so from like from her cell phone and while at work which is possibly jeopardizing her job.


I'd recommend NOT doing this because you really don't want to tip your hand and have your wife go underground. Especially when you don't really have any concrete evidence of anything.

That keylogger is a reliable source to let you know if your wife is or is planning on stepping out on you. If you email this guy and it gets back to her, she's going to find other ways to sneak around on you. Ways that might not be as easy to keep track of or monitor than the one you already have and she doesn't know anything about.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Also, wifey called this morning to ask how dropping off our son at the sitter went blah blah blah. I asked if work was busy and her reply was that it was steady ( yet she had time to send a lengthy email ).

@jasel I see your point about not confronting her/OM just yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to read Married Man Sex LIfe right now. Downlaod it Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

Print off her email, show it to her tonight. Tell her you need all access, transparency to all her texts, emails, passwords etc.

She has to delete all facebook accts. 

One more email/text/conv with another man and you WILL file for divorce.

If you do not jump on this with both feet now and man up you family WILL be destroyed. Is this action guaranteed no , but its your only shot.

DO NOT WAIT AROUND WILL SHE STARTS AN AFFAIR

You alos need to demand MC to see why she is so deseperately looking for another man.

You should be angry, controlled and strong. Do not act ,needy weepy or insecure.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

WOW, it seems like your wife is shopping for a relationship! Either that or she has stalker tendencies...she seems to cling to anyone that will give her time of day.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Also let his wife know he is chatting up your wife.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Your description of your marriage suggests a lot of underlying issues - financial problems, lack of sex, a stressful child custody battle, and non-traditional
work schedules leading to little time to spend together cultivating the marriage. 

It doesn't sound like your wife has done anything physical yet but it does sound like she is relaxing her boundaries and allowing herself to enjoy talking
to other men. This is a symptom of your marriage being in trouble. Rather than confront her or just simply spy on her you need to talk to
her about concerns in the marriage and how you feel like things are drifting apart. Also suggest counseling. If she doesn't think anything is wrong
or isn't willing to put in the work to improve things then you will have a red flag bigger than anything you have now. I think if you confront now without 100% solid evidence you just risk pushing her further away and creating another layer that you'll have to get through later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> I just checked my wife's email (she's at work) and found that she just sent another email to the newest 'email guy' at 4:30. The tone wasn't terrible, although different than how she speaks to me. I didn't know that speaks like a teenage girl (i.e. BAHAHAHAHA, and LOL and such).


It's not surprising. New romantic interests flood our brains with various chemicals such as dopamine. Teenagers are continually in and out of relationships, or crushes. So they're constantly bombarded by these brain chemicals. And, thus, wayward spouses often act like love struck teenagers.



whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> What was weird is that she remarked that she onlly aksed his marital/dating status so that she wouldn't get another woman mad at her ...


Which shows you intent. This isn't a woman innocently, but foolishly, trying to reconnect with an old friend. This is a woman who is trying to reconnect for the purpose of romance.



whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> This frustrates me to no end! If I would have known that she would contact ex-boyfriends, check on past lovers on Facebook, and have a email dialogue with some ex-military dude, we would not have struggled through IVF for a child.


Yep. Jokes on you, bud. I don't know what you tell you. Most men don't find themselves in this situation until kids are in the picture. You're not alone.



whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> I am strongly considering emailing the OM and letting him know that I'm aware what is happening and tell him how, in the past, this woman has created dating profiles and now also checks your Facebook, along with past romantic interets, almost daily and emails you on the Holidays and from places she must feel safe doing so from like from her cell phone and while at work which is possibly jeopardizing her job.


Don't do this. First, it tips your hand on your source. Try your best to avoid that. If your wife knows your source, she will try to take things underground. She can use computers at work, or friend's, or buy a prepaid phone to use.

Second, it won't have any affect on the OM. He knows your wife is untrustworthy. She's trying to be unfaithful to him. Telling him that she's a cheating skank (or at least trying to be) is not new information for him.

The best thing that could be accomplished is her knowing that you're on to her, and her changing her behavior. That is possible without tipping your hand.



whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> I will update when I do something/something changes, but in the meanwhile I appreciate the feedback and input thus far!!


I think your best strategy is to read MMSL and run the MAP. Then, pick some of her public actions that she knows you know about. Has she friended this guy on her Facebook that you can see? If so, put your foot down on that. And be prepared for her fake indignation that she only friended him so he could see pictures of her blissfully happy life with you and she would never dream of cheating and you're a bastard for being jealous. Don't argue with her. Just tell her that she crossed the line that makes you feel uncomfortable. She can't argue against your emotions. And tell her that if she doesn't cease contact, your relationship will change. That leaves you free to file for separation, or divorce, or just start pulling away from her because you don't love her as much as you used to before she started flirting with other men.

If there's nothing public, then try to scheme some excuse for finding something private. Your phone battery died, so you had to use hers and you noticed the message from the guy when you went to send a text message. Your email locked up and you had to use hers, etc. The risk with this is that you risk pushing the affair underground. At a minimum, she will probably start password protecting her phone. Of course, that won't matter to you if you have spyware on it.

Whatever course you take, you need to have a plan for when this is exposed. Once she knows that you know, you need to take action immediately. Having a plan makes that much easier. If you plan to file for separation, go see a lawyer now. Or at least know how to fill out the paperwork yourself. If you want to file for divorce, ditto. Immediately handing her paperwork, or at least within a day or so, may snap your wife out of her fog.

But waffling when your wife knows that you know she's been trolling for better men is a serious display of low value. Even if you eventually file for separation, she may have convinced herself that she was right to try to land another man.

Good luck.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

It has been some time since I last posted and don't have much new information to report. 

Up until last week, the last email she received was on 1/11 when wifey told me was very busy at work. In a previous email, the OM gave my wife his 'new' address to a house he was moving to in TN from VA (we are in Chicago). Apparently, my wife sent him a congratulations on your new house card and he emailed her to tell her that he received it and it "made his day". He also suggested that my wife can contact him on FB and gave the name he uses if she wanted to talk on there. I saw the email before wife knew it was there (email client shows bold sender name and never returns even if kept as new) and read it, archived it for me, then deleted it. My wife has made no effort to contact him nor him her.

I do have keyloggers in place and spyware on her phone which gives me txts, pics, vids, internet history, etc... and no further red flags have surfaced. I do check her email(s) account(s) daily along with the cellphone webite (spyware and verizon). Her FB account, for those reading thread for the first time, uses a bogus name and details (she says to keep tabs on my ex and child) still shows she twice weekly searches/views pages of past romantic interests and their spouses. The only FB chat was with someone she identified herself as a former schoolmate of and wanted to know if she married another classmate. My wife never revealed her 'true' identity.

I have not confronted as I don't have anything yet other then the first guy, OM1, that she contacted and tried to remind him that when they were together 10 years ago that things weren't that bad (the relationship). I'm saving that for when (praying not the case) something more concrete happens to establish a pattern.

We have agreed that our schedules provide no time together (I work 24 hours on and 48 hours off and she works 12 hour shifts at night 3 X a week) and we have planned an actual date night together next weekend to a restaurant we used to frequent before our now 13 month old came along. I need more than my fingers and toes now to count how often we have had sex since the birth of our son. It's not as often as it should be, but it's heading the right way.

How have I changed? I have decided to take my time off of work in a manner that will allow me to take a shift off once a month vs. a cluster a few times a year. On those 5 days off (work 24 on/48 off) we do simple things together like grocery shopping, baby shopping, and get a bite to eat at child-friendly places when she doesn't have to work. It may not sound like much, but it is more than just seeing one another in passing off the baby. I have been absorbing all the advice given in the forums should one day I need it. In areas where I may have some knowledge (technology comes to mind) I have posted to some threads.

I doubt my story is over, but seems to be heading on a far better course. I will forever be vigilant for more red flags. I will be providing updates when/if they surface. Thank You all again for your time and advice!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Everything seems to be safe, but your wife has a prediliction, for going off and talking to other men

The two of you need to sit down a couple of times a week, and talk about your life together, problems, how things are going, I am sure you know what I mean---this needs to be done, no matter what your work schedules dictate----somewhere during one of these coversations, you need to discuss her talking to other men, and you need to bring up the fact that married wives and mothers---DO NOT talk to other men, thru e-mail, regular mail, social media, cellphones, texts, and whatever else you want to throw in, and it needs to become a boundary-----both of you need to understand---what she is doing, no matter how innocent she thinks it is---is not in the script of a married woman-----whether she thinks it or not---she is out looking for contact with other men---it MUST stop. If done the right way by you, she will understand that she is hurting you, but by the same token, she may not pick up, that you are keeping surveillance on her.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Things are going well for the time-being. The more time together, the more the baby sleeps, and the more we talk has definitely helped! W has a recent (week ago) Dx (diagnosis) of Diabetes. Not a life sentence, not brought on by poor lifestyle, but never really cleared from gestation and was getting worse as far as trending blood sugars creeping higher. This will help us to both eat better as my W's health requires it.

We had a talk about her contact with other men in a most indirect circumstance that seems to have stopped her email contact and FB stalking of past lovers. It all came about when watching a movie where the W has an affair (movie title unimportant, pick any really) and once the movie was over, we critiqued it. I brought up the fact that this woman was adulterous and the turmoil the ensued was brought-on by her actions. My W was quick to point out that the H was not nice, never around, blah blah blah to which I lost it and yelled "That's no excuse!". I continued to hammer many points/truths that I have learned here on TAM about infidelity in marriage. I told her there is also no such things as "work husbands" and explained what I thought about EA's. ***I can continue, but I think you get the point*** I also, over the past few months, was extremely vocal anytime my W mentioned marital problems/issues with her friends, family, co-workers, etc...about the partnership a M forms, transparency, etc...

Having that kind of discussion didn't tip my hand as to the surveillance I have in place. I hope it never reveals another "red flag" again. I hope I can get to a point where I'm not routinely feeling the need to check my W's online footprints...I'm getting there!! Wonders if her recent Dx and my remarks of marriage and infidelity have brought on this change? I'd like to think it has, but only time will tell how successful it was. I don't want to let on what I know about her past online/email activity for fear if she's aware, it can go underground (learned that here).

Bedroom session frequency returning to normal levels slowly. Again, work schedules really mess with it, but spontaneity rearing its head more so than post baby (was non-existent). Not much more to say on that.

I now know that no matter how cruel advice on here may be, it is NOT misguided and applies/applied to many past issues people have had. Once I accepted that and that I may be Plan B, I was able to make changes and speak about what is important and how I feel. I make more of the decisions no matter how little of importance they may be like what we will have for dinner vs. idk, what do you want, or what appetizer we are having vs. what do you suggest. I plan/map-out our activities and our time together. Guess you could surmise (I do at least) that I'm more Alpha then I was before I came here and it isn't yielding negative results, in fact, when I told my W I would pick the appetizer (I know, odd example) she replied "So you're ordering for us? Good!". I now see the need to maintain and build upon this based on the results.

I'd love some feedback on what I'm doing right and if it seems I'm handling this correctly? I'd also like to know what I am doing incorrectly, not enough of, or not at all? 

Thank you again for your time and responses!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You did not mention it, have you read Married Man Sex Life Primer? Its not a sex manual as the unlikely name implies but the most valuable relationship guide a man can have for understanding a womans attraction for men(you). LOL I also women are reading it up their own knowledge.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrwt news BTW, so glad you have little to worry about.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

chapparal said:


> You did not mention it, have you read Married Man Sex Life Primer? Its not a sex manual as the unlikely name implies but the most valuable relationship guide a man can have for understanding a womans attraction for men(you). LOL I also women are reading it up their own knowledge.
> 
> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrwt news BTW, so glad you have little to worry about.


I have not, it is on my to-do list. I see how often it is advised (yes I know you recommended it from the get go in my case) and then helps. Im no longer skeptic about advice here (pumping-up a books sales) that I will get it done. It will only help me and I dont want to undo any positive changes I've seen thus far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There is a second book below in my signature that is linked to. NOT JUST FRIENDS by the late SHirley Glass this would be great for you both to read. It is the definitive and best researched book about cheating and will show your wife what poor boundaries will lead to................... it also sends a subtle message that you are concerned about her boundaries.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

chapparal said:


> There is a second book below in my signature that is linked to. NOT JUST FRIENDS by the late SHirley Glass this would be great for you both to read. It is the definitive and best researched book about cheating and will show your wife what poor boundaries will lead to................... it also sends a subtle message that you are concerned about her boundaries.


I do like that it will send a subtle message. You asking about MMSL prompted to download kindle for iphone and finally get it. Only 5% done, but its a start. Will check local bookstores this weekend for Dr Glass's book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> I brought up the fact that this woman was adulterous and the turmoil the ensued was brought-on by her actions. My W was quick to point out that the H was not nice, never around, blah blah blah to which I lost it and yelled "That's no excuse!".


That sounds perfect. You would be amazed at how often a disloyal spouse can convince himself that, given the state of the marriage, adultery really wouldn't be that bad. These delusional disloyals can be genuinely shocked when the betrayed spouse takes exception to an affair.

Voicing your disapproval of any kind of disloyalty often is just the antidote for that kind of delusional attitude. Good job.



> Once I accepted that and that I may be Plan B, I was able to make changes and speak about what is important and how I feel.


Great. The thing is, it's easy to make the necessary changes to head off a crisis, and then lapse back into your old patterns, or just stop improving. Don't do that. Don't improve a little bit. Improve a lot.



> Guess you could surmise (I do at least) that I'm more Alpha then I was before I came here and it isn't yielding negative results, in fact, when I told my W I would pick the appetizer (I know, odd example) she replied "So you're ordering for us? Good!". I now see the need to maintain and build upon this based on the results.


Absolutely. If you keep it up, it will begin to feel less calculated and more natural. And that's when you really start to see results. When your wife is attracted to you for doing what comes naturally, life is good.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

@PHTlump Thank you for the feedback! You were the first to reply to my thread here and you were correct... if I continued to sit idle and not attempt to head this off and just "watch" what was unfolding, things would be the same with my M or worse I fear. My issue (what took some time) was not wanting to out myself to my W and disclose that I know about her online/email activities. Even a sit-down at first about what's appropriate contact would have revealed what and how I know, if that makes sense? My W's real-life persona wouldn't raise suspicions other then lack of intimacy post childbirth and who knows if just addressing that would have changed anything.

Last night before snoozing I remarked to my W that I feel our marriage was getting "better" to which she replied "I see some positive changes, yes". I left it at that for now and plan to make that statement again when I feel more progress is made as sort of a barometer check.

Side story: went to a Blackhawks game last week with work pals (family really, I live with them every 3rd day for work, I'm a Firefighter) and we were a group of 8 men. I like sports and Im the senior man (14 yrs on the job) and W was cool about it as she likes sports also (we have Bears season tickets and she goes with me more then half the time). Some dbag tried to distract a much shorter person in the group and then tried to steal his bobblehead (Toews, giveaway) but was seen. I ended-up going over and doing the head-tilt upward and began to question, not back-off, and use harsh language I can't say here. His friend came by and I told him off too. Another person told me to relax, and I told him to go ____ himself and mind his business. ***this is NOT my norm at all, not intoxicated either***. Security came by and separated me from them. My friends thanked me and no doubt they hold me in higher esteem. My W, when asked me how the game went, was told by me what happened. She seemed excited and said something like 'good for you' ...my point, she liked that the fact I stood-up for myself and friends. I dont condone violence ever and I was wrong to entertain the idea, but it rang true with what I read how woman want that strong, no-nonsense kinda guy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Just read your thread. Keep going! And continue to be vigilant. You seem to be going in the right direction. 

Any new flags, follow all the advice you have been given down to a tee. Hit hard! Where it hurts. And look forward to a stronger marriage. 

Hope you won't have to....though something tells me you may well need to. A wife fishing.....that is a major worry.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your wife might NOT be looking for an affair. She could be anal retentive wanting to keep tabs on her exes because, well, because she can!

Years ago I went out with a woman who was physically really very, very pretty. She was also as mad as a box of frogs.

She finished the relationship (Apparently I treated her too well) and we had no contact thereafter.

Fast forward five years and I was with the woman I am now married to. She pointed to an amazing little cottage and said: "That's where my best friend used to live! Her parents still live there!"

I choked and she gave me a funny look. I eventually managed to say: "I used to date her!"

My wife laughed and said: "I'll bet that was an interesting experience!" 

A week or so later we met my former girl friend and when she saw us together (please keep in mind the fact I hadn't seen her in five years!) and she became irrationally jealous!

Apparently because I'd dated her and she'd dumped me, I shouldn't have had anyone else!

Nowadays she would use Facebook to stalk ex-lovers.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

@Remains: thank you and yes, a W who fishes is a worry.

@MM: interesting story! I hope its just that with my W as was with your ex-gf!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Um, well...things have taken a turn for the worse!

First off, I read MMSL, and from what I learned and working on myself, I did see some short-term positive change. My 15 month-old son was stricken with a uncommon infection http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...anybody-ever-experience-mac-child-infant.html and required surgery, diagnostic tests, and now needs long-term antibiotic use. He has a facial paralysis that may or may not self-resolve. 

Needless to say, all of my time and efforts (W's also) have been on our son. I missed/traded significant time at work to be with my son through all of this. My W's employer is giving her a hard time with her FMLA absences http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family-parenting-forums/75033-fmla-interference-while-caring-child.html . During this time (past month now or so) no intercourse nor have I initiated. Come to think of it, even though we were doing much better with that, she never initiated. She really hasn't since pre-pregnancy now that I think about it.

A week or so ( can't be certain as postmarked envelope gone) ago the 'email guy' sent her a card in the mail that arrived on a day I worked. W does not know that I am aware of this card. It was a "happy nurses day" card. Written inside was how he appreciates what a great job she does and what a great person she is. This was his first attempt, that I know of, to contact her since I intercepted and deleted his last email late Feb/early Mar. Of course my W still has yet to mention this card to me.

This recent contact has upped my frequency of surveillance viewing. On Saturday night while I was at work (24 hour shifts) and my children (12 year-old visitation with us for my weekend) sleeping, she sent him her first ever txt. The txt thanked him for the card and told him she will call him later in the week which I took to mean while I was at work (am right now until 7a). He replied to call me anytime. I blocked his number via the Verizon Wireless (VZ) website and monitored email and social media which came-up empty. Keylogger showed nothing suspicious on the computers. Sunday I spent with my children and W worked her night shift 7p-7a. Monday she slept half the day with no noticeable behavior changes.

Today: spoke on phone after lunch and dinner, seemed pretty normal. I checked the VZ website and see she txt the guy (I assigned 'EA' to his number to easily identify it) 8:30ish. He did not reply as his # is blocked. I don't know the content of what she sent yet. I don't know if he can receive her txts (or calls for that matter). My assumption is that tonight was the night she planned to call him and attempted to txt him first. Just checked, she did not call him. No email or social media contact. 

I will continue to work on myself and be a good Dad. I now don't know if I want to attempt to save the M as right now this stings. I get the "fog" phenomenon and why she is keeping her actions from me. I anticipated this could happen again. Her behavior over attention from another while our baby is chronically ill says a lot about her character (or lack thereof). I will continue now with surveillance and monitoring the call logs. 

Even though some progress was made, her lack of initiating sexually during that time shows me she's not interested in me but enjoys the comforts which I provide. Do I unblock his number and see what transpires? I think we all know what will transpire if I do! Or, do I just confront and see if she goes the we're just friends route? Throw in some boundaries now and see her reaction? I don't have any solid proof of an EA, just red flags still.

I have my 12 year-old tomorrow after school and need to try and sleep as my job can keep me up all night. Thank you all again for your time and advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Boy is this a tough one. If this were me, I probably would not confront at this point. But one more step toward an affair, and I would confront. If you do decide to confront, as others will surely advise you, do not reveal your sources...no matter what.


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

Just recently tuned into your situation and read the latest info.

My input is this.

I think putting the Verizon phone blockage on the OM is kind of a bad idea.

Blocking the OM number stops the cause of the affair, of course, for the mean time, it won't last long and they'll get around it. BUT since you don't really have ANY solid evidence then doing so will most likely slow down the process of getting closer to getting SOLID evidence. Nothing better than to bring the interaction closer and judge it yourself.

If you block the phone the flow will cease to be slower therefore slow down the number of days that YOU have to endure this waiting for that one big bang evidence and at the same time your W will probably suspect you for blocking the OM's number if your W ever do see him in person or emails or send letters and approach him about all of those texts and what not and thus creating even more secrecy and tactics in the affair which in turns will burn her desire to even get more lucrative in the affair and create MORE mind games with you.

Have someone told you about getting Voice Activated Recorders? You should look into that when you unblock the OM's #. Record the crap out of their conversations. But do not confront right now, most likely what you've said she will just throw in the "just a friend" line and that ceases the argument on her side because you don't have enough evidence and it will make you regret if you ever do.

I am wondering, how about you initiate sex? See how she responds or react pre, during, and post sex and tell us here what she did. Does she make excuses to avoid sex? Does she not give that much energy during sex like she used to? No spark? After sex does she go immediately to sleep or does she cuddle up with you? I'd like to know. (Not to be a pervert though lol)


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

OP,

I agree with the VARs if you haven't already done this.

I also think that your W will eventually figure out you blocked his number.

Without real solid evidence, confrontation at this point will be useless.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You can do your passive blocking all you like. But the fact is, if they want to get together, they're going to eventually sneak past the blockades you set up. And you may not even know it, as you think you've got all the bases covered. And as it is, you can't even get "proof" because of the blockades you've got set up. So you're stuck in limbo.

My advice... Figure out what your boundaries are. Talk to a lawyer and get divorce papers drawn up. Sit her down, slap the papers down in front of her, and spell things out for her. What's acceptable, what's not. Any violation of those boundaries will result in filing of those papers. Don't explain to her what you know or how you know it.

And then stick to your guns. You don't need any proof of infidelity to file for divorce. That can be a good thing or bad, I guess. But you do have to have the balls to stand up for yourself, to drag the ugly stuff out in the open.

C


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think your doing pretty well at slowing contact down.

You are basically c-blocking him. While he continues to fish.

Were you the one to receive the card in the mail from him? I might have been tempted to not give it to her and just redirect it to the garbage can.

You really need to put a VAR in her car and at home where she would go to talk privately to him when you are working.

I'd hold off saying anything for now, but I'd be on alert to catch if the situation escalates and be prepared to intercept fast.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Might be worth contacting him and asking him if attempting to cheat with the wife of a super fit fire fighter is the way forward for a happy and peaceful life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Just got home...wife and baby still asleep which is unusual. Of course, she deleted the txt to OM. She did txt a coworker (not deleted, nothing objectionable) until midnight last night which may be why she isn't up yet. She uses 'Handcent Message' for txt messaging and has since she got her Android device (before OM came around) because she prefers the constant audible alert of missed messages vs. the flashing light. The txt app is difficult to monitor as it can only be viewed on the device and not installed elsewhere without deactivating the registered device. I will check with the evidence gathering thread on that.

I see now that blocking the number will only serve to make it more difficult for me to keep tabs on this. If it goes underground, then I'm stuck wondering so I get it and will unblock. The OM is in TN and we are in Northern IL so she can't just ask the OM about him not returning her txt.

Intimate relations: She mostly will only have sex when we are in bed at night time. Given our schedules, we are together an average in bed 2-3 times max per week, but it can fluctuate. She will respond when I initiate in the sense that I get to 'play with her parts' with her seldom reciprocating, maybe a touch her and there. It is strictly about pleasure to her and not connecting emotionally I feel. She hasn't passionately kissed me outside the bedroom now for 4 years or so. She claims it is because I drink coffee and smoke, good reasons, however it was never an issue the first 6 years we were together. After sex, it's to the shower for her then to sleep. She will not touch me, but I can touch/cuddle with her if I so choose.

VARS: It is time to get moving on that. This is the first time I know of that she wants to talk to somebody else. I will PM Rdmu and see if he answers about the type he used.

Yes, I can file for D if I feel, but I guess for now I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt so to speak as I can't prove anything. I do know where this can lead, and I guess the more it eats at me, the more remarks of not knowing if I want to stay married will come out. I guess I'm treading very carefully here and not wanting to have a knee-jerk reaction until I can know for sure what is/isn't going on. I don't know how she would respond to that (filing), and I may lose my M when it can be salvaged. The flip side is that it might shock her from this...to save your marriage you must be willing to lose it--->easier said then done.

We are both home today and I have my other son after school. I say this as getting to here may be more difficult then usual. My children mean the world to me. Keeping TAM to myself is also important to me so I will check here when I can.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> I think your doing pretty well at slowing contact down.
> 
> You are basically c-blocking him. While he continues to fish.
> 
> ...


Nope, she got the card otherwise I would have read and shredded the card for sure. It seems to have reignited contact.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Might be worth contacting him and asking him if attempting to cheat with the wife of a super fit fire fighter is the way forward for a happy and peaceful life?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have his LinkedIn profile (and his pic, he looks like Barney Rubble) so if I did, I'd contact him via his employer. Larger-sized global (not Microsoft) software firm that does commercial and government dept of defense work.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I just saw your original story and the continuing updates and advice.

I second the Not Just Friends book. I read it after discovering my H's 3rd online affair, which has ended as far as I can tell, although I am still vigilant and will be for a while.

It does seem your wife is looking for an outside outlet maybe to take the pressure off from all that you two are dealing with, which is significant. The comparison to a dopamine high is what I was thinking of also, although I am not condoning her choice to seek out others to talk to.

I am glad you are also getting the men's perspectives on here but I agree with watching and waiting until/if something concrete happens or they will go underground, they always do.

My H is now reading the Not Just Friends book and is amazed at the similarities. I told him these things are so common, that, even though you think your situation was unique, it was not. He says he never meant to hurt me or make me feel like less because of his poor choices. He really didn't see it as something that would hurt us, but he did hide it, so of course he knew I would not like it.

I also agree with the VAR even though in my case they were not talking live after I discovered the affair, they were texting and I did not see any of the texts this time around. 

I hope you can get through these tough times and that she can see how much you care about the marriage. I agree,more time with you is less time for her to look elsewhere. My H and I do much better when we can get out and do fun things together. When we are in the grind of work, we tend to feel isolated from each other and resentments build. Good luck to you.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

VAR=Sony ICDPX312 and yes, they work fantastically. FAST response and dead clear.

RDMU put me onto them. This is the model he used two of. 1 in car 1 in house where she talks.

Isnt it a bit early for divorce papers? Damn I thought I was cynical.

BTW the lack of her touching you combined with her proclivities for talking to other men is very very troubling.

I would seriously
1) Get one of you to a normal work schedule. This can be a project that is being worked on but you HAVE to spend more time together.
2) Work on the time together thing. Your marriage is eroding by the day! Next step is she will start down the inappropriate texting, then sexting, then... road.


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> VAR=Sony ICDPX312 and yes, they work fantastically. FAST response and dead clear.
> 
> RDMU put me onto them.
> 
> Isnt it a bit early for divorce papers? Damn I thought I was cynical.


I have one of those and it makes too much hissing noises. I had it once to test it for field recording and told my ex to put it on over night for some test and it was freaking noisy. But I guess for these type of situations you don't really need decent recorders but just recorders that can record omni-directional like the handy recorder you've mentioned.

I recommend the Zoom H1 for crisp audio and Zoom H4N for precise and crisp audio, but its more expensive though. But the Zoom H1 is $100 and its a freaking fantastic small handy recorder to beat!

Been in the film business for about 2 1/2 years, gotta know my audio recordings or I can't make movies! :smthumbup:

EDIT - Holy crap I just searched my house and I just found my old Sony ICDPX312 that I bought almost 4 years ago!!!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Umm, quit smoking cold turkey now. 1) for your own health 2) say nothing about it to her and see how long it takes her to notice. If she doesn't after a week, it implies she is paying zero attention to you. Reduce alcohol consumption to sharpen yourself. You are in a fox hole and need to stay alert
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RobertPaulson (May 17, 2013)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> She uses 'Handcent Message' for txt messaging and has since she got her Android device (before OM came around) because she prefers the constant audible alert of missed messages vs. the flashing light.


This is not why she prefers Handcent. It is because of the 'privacy box' feature which automatically intercepts text messages from predesignated phone numbers which don't even have to be in her contact list, and places them into a password protected area that she can check at her leisure without worrying about any notifications popping up and making you suspicious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> I have his LinkedIn profile (and his pic, he looks like Barney Rubble) so if I did, I'd contact him via his employer. Larger-sized global (not Microsoft) software firm that does commercial and government dept of defense work.


Good idea, that! Go for it!:smthumbup:


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

I would seriously consider quitting smoking and coffee drinking maybe too. You can chew nicotine gum and take caffeine tablets for substitute. And start working out. I smoked cigarettes quite some time and now have stopped years ago and most likely couldn't kiss a woman who is smoking. I can smell a person who is smoking from 10 meters away outside.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> I would seriously consider quitting smoking and coffee drinking maybe too. You can chew nicotine gum and take caffeine tablets for substitute. And start working out. I smoked cigarettes quite some time and now have stopped years ago and most likely couldn't kiss a woman who is smoking. I can smell a person who is smoking from 10 meters away outside.


So do you agree that him quitting smoking would a good way to test his wife's interest in him?


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> So do you agree that him quitting smoking would a good way to test his wife's interest in him?


It could be I don't know. It's a logical step in my opinion since she has expressed her displeasure towards smoking. Naturally it's the smell and it can be hard to be intimate with someone who smells like burnt cigarettes. I'm telling this as a former smoker.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I also suggest stopping smoking ASAP. Not only will you smell a whole lot better but you'll save a lot of money. 

And if you do D, non smokers are a lot more attractive to women than smokers, well unless your target is 19 waitresses and club chicks.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

RobertPaulson said:


> This is not why she prefers Handcent. It is because of the 'privacy box' feature which automatically intercepts text messages from predesignated phone numbers which don't even have to be in her contact list, and places them into a password protected area that she can check at her leisure without worrying about any notifications popping up and making you suspicious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was ignorant to that fact. One more thing to add to the checklist of things to monitor...ugh!


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Thanks for the VAR recommendations. Gotta get to Best Buy and see which ones of the recommended they have.

As far as smoking goes, I do need to quit. I use it to cope, relax, calm down, etc... and with a sick child and a spouse displaying red flags, it is difficult. My employer, via prescription coverage, will not cover smoking cessation meds. I do not smoke in my car or house. I do not smoke when W is home. The odor does linger and with a good portion of people at work smoking, I would smell like a chimney regardless 

Nothing happened the past day as it usually won't while we both are at home. I work Friday and Monday (every 3 days) and she works Sat and Sun. When one of us is at work, this is when she has been known to contact current OM and 'snoop' on OM of her past online. I did unblock the # of the OM and will watch the call / txt logs tomorrow while at work when can.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Buy nicotine gum like Nicorette etc. Costs about the same as cigarettes.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Don't forget cigarettes damage your equipment
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> Thanks for the VAR recommendations. Gotta get to Best Buy and see which ones of the recommended they have.
> 
> As far as smoking goes, I do need to quit. I use it to cope, relax, calm down, etc... and with a sick child and a spouse displaying red flags, it is difficult. My employer, via prescription coverage, will not cover smoking cessation meds. I do not smoke in my car or house. I do not smoke when W is home. The odor does linger and with a good portion of people at work smoking, I would smell like a chimney regardless
> 
> Nothing happened the past day as it usually won't while we both are at home. I work Friday and Monday (every 3 days) and she works Sat and Sun. When one of us is at work, this is when she has been known to contact current OM and 'snoop' on OM of her past online. I did unblock the # of the OM and will watch the call / txt logs tomorrow while at work when can.


I recommend getting online through ebay, you can save some money but I guess getting it from a local store won't hurt. The sooner you have it on your hand the better. Also if you're getting the Zoom H1 make sure to get the WHITE version, the black version has battery life drainage!


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

A few days, a few txts, then to tonight...

I'm at work and 12yr old txts asking when I have him next (EXW is a poor record keeper, she gets schedules from me on a monthly basis). I txt my W as I don't keep my visitation schedules at my work. I get no reply. I wait a half hour then start digging through my emails during some down/ rehab time (work thing) and find the .doc (to be sure as his txt has me double-guessing the day I thought it was) and let my son know the day this week. He replies thanks and I txt my W to tell her to never mind that I found it...no reply. I wanted to assume was tending to our sick child, but I know he's in bed by 8 the latest.

Rewind...W called me 7ish when returning from family gathering. Says baby doing well and family fine also. I had to excuse myself no less than 10 mins in, smoke in the building call had to go to work. W said planned to be in bed by 10 as is tired. She worked last night and got 2 hrs of sleep today. Told W would call if back by 10. I didn't return by 10. Set-up aerial, go on roof, blah blah blah (work). I check the usual phone logs, email. etc... I find a few txts to "EA" (OM) and a 129 min. phone call starting at 8:26. This explains why she never replied.

I feel angered, but saw this coming. I know now that questions about my child and his visitation that needing answering ASAP by looking on the refrigerator took a back seat to her convo. with OM. Her "I'll be in bed by ten" was a lie, or perhaps just turned-out that way. My son and I got pissed-on by her. Again, I felt this may be coming in my original post, but now that I know they are talking for sure, it hurts that much more. I assume that all evidence on her phone will be gone upon my return 8 this am. I suspect I will get little sleep as per is normal at work and now this. She works the next two days and will be in bed by noon then all day the next.

I'm not sure how I will react when I walk in the door when my baby calls "DA DA" and walks over for a hug with her nearby watching. Of course I will show my baby the attention he deserves, it's how I react to the W when asked about my night. I suppose i will ask how hers went along with what time she got to bed (she will lie and obviously not mention OM). My son will take a nap between 9-10 and I'll be stuck with her for 2 hours. It's this time I will want to blow-up verbally, but need to remain calm for the big-picture. ***No VARS yet*** Then again, as another has commented in this thread, her behavior is not that of a married woman and mother. 

I may just end my suffering tomorrow and confront. Demand NC for starters and demand she come clean with all I know about her emailing an ex and this OM along with her spying / stalking past love interests. Polygraph as well. If she isnt begging to R and knock this $hit off, we are done. Expose to her family and contact OM employer...I dont know if tomorrow is for certain, but cant take much more of this. I cant let this fester while I get more info., can I? IL is a no-fault state so who cares anymore (anger talking)! I was holding-out so she couldn't plausibly deny anything...do I wait and put on a happy face for the time being?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I guess you know your wife better than I do, and I guess it's obvious she's hiding stuff from you.

She has hidden all communication with this guy, although it hasn't been a lot.

From what you have seen, she has had two other past incidents in the last few years where it appeared she was looking for contact with other guys and hiding it from you.

I doubt anything is going on with this guy. It's just in the start up phase. It can progress quickly.

You do not need any more evidence than you have now. Already what has been going on has been unacceptable. You know what you know and you don't need hard proof to file for divorce. Heck, you don't need any proof at all to get divorced.

If you don't care about having the hard truth, just confront your wife. Tell her you know she has been communicating with this other man and ask her if she's been deliberately hiding it from you. Don't tell her how you know, just tell her you know. If she starts lying, call her on it. Tell her "I KNOW that isn't true." 

Tell her that you love her and you want to have a better marriage, but that her lying and hiding is unacceptable. Tell her that you'd rather be alone than with someone who doesn't love you.

Ask her if she would rather get divorced than tell you the truth. If she continues to lie, tell her that you are growing weary of her lies and if she continues to do so you will file for divorce. Then if she doesn't tell you a story that at least matches the facts you know, go ahead and file. It doesn't sound like she is in the relationship with other man yet, so it shouldn't come to this. I am guessing she will lie about it until you keep calling her on it, push you to your limits, but eventually come clean, at least about the phone call and other communications. You may never know the content. She will say it was just catching up with an old friend, you will say, then why did you hide it, and who knows what her answer to that will be?

Going forward, you should get some VARs and put them in her car and in the house where she would be likely to talk when you are not home.

While you are dealing with this incident, remember the other incidents of contacting old boyfriends and going on Match. She initiated both, and it seems she is initiating this, although lately other man seems to be doing his fair share, but it appears your wife is still, overall, the pursuer. This is the third time. This is more than just this most recent other man. Whatever the reason - stress, boredom, resentment - she's got to find another way to deal with it than seeking out attention from other men.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Read the thread, bit concerned about how now your life has come to this. You're checking up on her every second. Everything she says is now being taken with a pinch of salt. I think it's time to confront. You know she's talking to him, you know she's lying about it. Confront then get in contact with OM and have a little chat with him. Should kill everything stone dead.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You're doing pretty well considering The situation. VAR is still good. Quit smoking to see if she even notices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oddball (Sep 5, 2012)

My wifes ea started very slowly like this. But when I challenged her on why she needed to talk on FB all the time, she said it was innocent, he was an old friend etc. Then her phone became her best friend, always at her side. I got into her FB account and started monitoring. Within 5 weeks it had gone from talk about books and movies, to sexual chat. Thats when I blew it up. Demanded NC etc. 

I honestly don't think when she started the contact she had anything like an ea in mind. But he was good at escalating things gently. And then the rush of it all kicked in.

Your wife may not be clear where the contact is going. But if it continues, its going to go South.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Are the two of you having any fun together? With your schedules, I don't see what you have as a relationship. You sound like roomates. Have you discussed this?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I urge you to put in place all the snooping tools, including VAR before the confrontation.
Sometimes we get obsessed with evidence gathering and forget that monitoring the aftermath might help us to get more and more important intel.
Damage control manoeuvres, conocting stories, letting the door opened for the future, planing to get it underground after confrontation, even when it seems remorse is genuine, are too common to let it go without care.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> If you don't care about having the hard truth, just confront your wife. Tell her you know she has been communicating with this other man and ask her if she's been deliberately hiding it from you. Don't tell her how you know, just tell her you know. If she starts lying, call her on it. Tell her "I KNOW that isn't true."
> 
> Tell her that you love her and you want to have a better marriage, but that her lying and hiding is unacceptable. Tell her that you'd rather be alone than with someone who doesn't love you.
> 
> ...


When I do confront, I will use your line of questioning. After some thinking about it, I do think I would rather get as much intel as possible before I do anything. I still don't know, and never will, what she was doing on online dating sites. Her reply of "I wanted to get back at you because I was angry" and "I new you'd find it so we can talk about things" seems a bit odd, but I will never know. I need to know how far things went and are at present as this is a factor if R is even possible.

I know I may seem all over the place with thoughts of D and R, but if EA's and PA's have occurred/do occur, then R will be more difficult for me. My fear now is if confront, she may feel as if she either got or can get away without me finding all the facts AND that I have this blanket trust that is easily manipulated.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

She's down for the afternoon and baby is sleeping. She noticed I seemed distant and wouldn't talk to her. She asked if anything is wrong or if she did anything to upset me. I told her I had a bad night. I played with my child until 10:30 when he was to go down for a nap, then went to the store and for some food.

She was in bed when I got home from work. She woke up from me entering the room. Immediately she got dressed and the phone went into her pocket. She did place the phone on a charger at 10:30 when I left (I saw this) and waited a few minutes and came back in to find the txts and call entry was deleted. Went upstairs to tell her through a closed door I forgot my wallet and was leaving. No other contact with her until dinner time now.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

chapparal said:


> Are the two of you having any fun together? With your schedules, I don't see what you have as a relationship. You sound like roomates. Have you discussed this?


Nope, no fun but had 'relations' Sunday. Of course, I had to initiate. She had verbal contact with OM the next day. Sex apparently means nothing to her. Most of our recent time was spent at hospitals, doctor's offices, labs, etc... In a way, I thought we would grow closer from our child being sick AND that she hadn't had any contact with OM since late Jan.

Roomates? ... Yes, but I would have preferred a fwb arrangement. We have discussed and she did find another job partly due to her employer messing with FMLA. She will be going from 12 hour shifts 7P-7A to now M-F, 40 hours with no weekends, holidays, or on-call. She will make roughly the same amount of loot so no big loss. I was hoping that this change to being home every night would help things, but isn't affective until another week or so.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Acabado said:


> I urge you to put in place all the snooping tools, including VAR before the confrontation.
> Sometimes we get obsessed with evidence gathering and forget that monitoring the aftermath might help us to get more and more important intel.
> Damage control manoeuvres, conocting stories, letting the door opened for the future, planing to get it underground after confrontation, even when it seems remorse is genuine, are too common to let it go without care.


I have read about this and totally forgot about the need for a VAR when confronting. I really have no idea if she will walk, become psycho biotch, or be genuinely remorseful once I give the ultimatums / conditions for R or my reasons for a D.

Thank you for the reminder guy!


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

oddball said:


> My wifes ea started very slowly like this. But when I challenged her on why she needed to talk on FB all the time, she said it was innocent, he was an old friend etc. Then her phone became her best friend, always at her side. I got into her FB account and started monitoring. Within 5 weeks it had gone from talk about books and movies, to sexual chat. Thats when I blew it up. Demanded NC etc.
> 
> I honestly don't think when she started the contact she had anything like an ea in mind. But he was good at escalating things gently. And then the rush of it all kicked in.
> 
> Your wife may not be clear where the contact is going. But if it continues, its going to go South.


Thank you for the cautionary tale! I hear of and read more and more like yours almost daily here!! Sorry you also have a reason to be here...I hope all is well with your M now!!!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Sony ICDPX312. Accept no less. I PMed someone on the zoom models. better sound BUT I asked and they eat batteries and wont do long stints so unless you want to record something YOU KNOW is going to happen in the next few hours. Go SONY. Dont do the RCA etc. SONY.

And no I dont have stock in Sony. Best buy carries them.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

This isn't meant to be a "told you so post" but more a slap in your face.
You posted this in January:


whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> She contacted her ex via email 3 days before my birthday (and 5 months since the birth of our child) !
> 
> What bugs me is she emailed him on X-Mas Eve, X-Mas Day, New Year's, and a few times in between asking him lots of questions about his life and asked for his address to a house he is moving to (many miles and states away). Furthermore, I notice that she is emailing him at 4 in the morning while she is at work, and to compare/contrast, NEVER did that with me. I fear she is headed for and more than willing to partake in a EA. Am I wrong?
> 
> ...


Here is the most important point of a response.


chapparal said:


> If you do not jump on this with both feet now and man up you family WILL be destroyed. Is this action guaranteed no , but its your only shot.
> 
> DO NOT WAIT AROUND WILL SHE STARTS AN AFFAIR.


If you would have set the boundaries, regardless of the quality of proof, you'd be ahead of the curve. If she continued, after the rules were set, she'd know the consequences. It is now June and you have a 129 minute phone call, a password protected app and you have increased contact. All of this happened while you gathered evidence.

Unless you are trying to divorce and live in a "fault state" you need to address this NOW. 5 months in is plenty of time to cross that line and if it hasn't been crossed, it will be soon. The password app proves, it has been underground for who knows how long. If you REALLY want to save your marriage, forget all of the gathering and confront now. Then you can put in all the VARS, cameras and anything else you missed. 

Don't tell her how you know, just tell her you know, it is unacceptable and the rules going forward. Stop being a voyeur in your own marriage, time to lower the boom.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Okay, the plan is a Monday confrontation once she returns from day 1 of her new job. This should give me time to get a VAR or two and to be able to protect against any looney behavior. I have my 12 yr old this weekend and he doesn't need to see/hear it. I work Thurs and Sun this week.

She was supposed to work tonight, but I scored a pair of BHAWKS tickets (last minute) and am taking my son after school lets out. If further contact is made between then, it will also be brought up. Oh yea, she bought him another greeting card says "Hi" and "wonderin' how you are doin'?" Found by accident looking for new auto ins. cards.

W asked I send her a pic of us from game...I said that you'll probably be sleeping on the couch (like last time when she ignored my txts when talking with OM)...she offered no reply and I left for son's school.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sucks you have to wait, but I know A Fireman's schedule is rough. Good luck and I hope it is a salvageable relationship. Remember, STAY CALM. We had a guy on here whose wife hit him and it was recorded. TAM and his lawyers told him to call the police and play them the recording. Problem was, his anger got the best of him and the cops were like "eh, sounds bad on both ends."


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Yea, the schedules suck! 

Today wife snapped about a doctor's appointment for our baby next week. She wasn't clear on what she saying (to me) so I didn't know what she was talking about, I told her so, then she started to raise her voice and yell about me forgetting. I told her I didn't forget, she phrased the ? poorly, then apologized. I replied "It doesn't matter" and then came the "I'm tired of this" and "Why don't you just file for D?".

I was taken back by this, and kept quiet to hear what further she will say. I got "How do you think I feel when you say we are just brother and sister (room mates)?" I replied something like how do you think I feel since we are like that? I asked if she still loves me and she said she does. She further said I think we have a 'communication' problem and suggested / asked if I want to move away for a while (no way, not leaving my child for many resaons!) and hinted that maybe we need counseling.

Our time to talk was up as she had to leave to get my 12 yr old from last day of school for the weekend and take him for a haircut. I still plan to confront with my information on Monday (it may end-up being more sooner-than-later). The fact that she metioned D worries me, but the counseling remark is encouraging!?!? I have a lawyer on retainer from ongoing custody issues with my ex W. I will look ahead at schedules regarding visitation without my W should our next talk(s) go poorly.

They will be back soon so I'm checking out...update when can and when applicable.


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

I would let it go on a little longer and see how "deep" the EA is.
A VAR of that 2 hour phone call would have been nice, you only have some proof of her fishing so far, no ILY's yet or anything definitive. I think you are confronting too early.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

It's been awhile since I've been on here. I eventually confronted in early June and of course I got the standard blameshifting...

...I did get her to go no contact with the OM. Initially, she asked if she could contact him to tell him it was over! She was told "no" and that he'd find-out in the letter. It was explained by me that what she was doing is NOT what a married woman or mother should do. Since then, nothing suspicious appears on the spyware on cpus or phone. Nothing in email exchanges either. I have full access to all passwords, apps, etc...

I presented her with a letter of my thoughts and notes of a timeline of events. The txt of it is below (sorry long):

What I know:

In the past, and as an excuse of being unhappy in the marriage, enrolled in multiple online dating services and presented self as single. Also had a mention of not wanting children. Past archived emails showed pictures of other men (some with their children) along with sending pics yourself. Multiple, multiple chat rooms visited...some with a foreign (i.e. English, Scottish, Austrailian) singles topic. Behavior continued and didn't stop (I think, maybe, who knows?) until presented with what minimal facts I had at the time. I feel I may have confronted too soon! I received no real answers to my questions. To this day you will only admit to what I know which isn't much. You denied contact with other men. Was told that you "just knew that I'd find out" as an excuse that we needed to talk about our marriage. When (son) responds to your questions "I don't know", you don't allow that to be an answer yet that is acceptable for when you need to respond that way? So I'll ask again...why were you trying to persue other men? What other men have you had contact with? Anything ever escalate to physical contact? Ever share dirty pics with any men? Ever txt, cyber, or have phone sex with other men? The fact that you did this and deliberately kept this from me (more to come) is NOT something that a married woman (and later a mother) does!!!! This hurt and still does to this day. Making matters worse, after some time, and while you may have moved past your getting caught, when I would grieve and ask you about it, you coldly told me that I "need to get over it". Well no, I need as long as I wish to grieve. I need honest answers (THE TRUTH) for any chance that a reconciliation will be successful. I wondered, and still do at times, if I'm Plan B until Plan A comes along!? We briefly hyperbonded. We went away for a weekend and continued to be close with one another, however discussion I would initiate about the actions you did were met with the standard "That's the past" and "Get over it" responses. I have never forgot, I forgave without (stupidly I see now) setting clear boundaries of what is acceptable behavior from my wife and what I expected a marriage to be. Maybe I did, or maybe it was you who said you will never do anything like this (pursuit of other men, deliberately keep things from me (hide), disrepect your husband, etc...) again. 

One day a little more than 1 year ago, I came home to find many email tabs open on a computer. I remained logged-in to Yahoo! and saw that you were viewing my emails. No biggie, full transparency in a marriage is expected. I have nothing to hide. Privacy in marriage is basically limited to the bathroom. I used this incident to justify reading your emails. That, and since (baby) was born, you have shown zero interest in me physically. Can you recall the last time that you kissed me? The last time you kissed me when we weren't having/going to have sex? When was the last time you initiated any type of sexual contact? Not to sound rude, but I can't remember myself which kinda raised a red flag. It didn't mean anything other then this is a warning sign that the marriage is not going so well. This would explain the roomate comments and admitedly I didn't communicate this problem I was having in our marriage with you. This further explains why some times I would get things done around the house, but regress to levels that you didn't like because I didn't like what you were doing by not being affectionate with your husband. Also, sometimes I thought I was doing what was required and still got yelled at. I guess what I'm saying is that I tried to do one thing different and still didn't get the attention I deserved as a man both physically and emotionally. It was apparent that we were growing apart and I did nothing to communicate anything to you. Didn't tell you I still hurt from the "Need a band aid?" days...still!!!!!! Some days were 'good' days where we got along just fine. I thought that having a child with you would bring us closer, would finally bring an end to days of me feeling like a disrespected husband. 

We are married and will forever, I suspect, have differing views about your family. My family is no better, and in most cases, worse than yours...but they were there for us during our wedding. It takes two to marry, and although what your family did was to hurt you, it didn't matter that I am a person, THE person who was to also be wed at that time. My feelings were NEVER taken into account by your family which is why I don't consider them a 'friend' of the marriage. Any level-headed person of the group could have at least gave you (us) the courtesy of what was about to take place, but didn't. I have a right to my feelings and thoughts and words about them whether you like it or not. Like you say, Karma is a *****! Make no mistake about it, when they watch (baby), they're doing it for you and not me. I was/am the outsider to your family and was shown on my wedding day what they thought of us (me)!

(OM1) -- Attempted contact about 1 year ago when (baby) was 5 months old around my birthday. Wanted to talk about how things "weren't always that bad between us" and re-start contact with him. OM1 wanted (still wants) nothing to do with you. Further along our sexless room mate arrangement, we have a beautiful son. Another son from the woman I loved meant the world to me. You still don't ever initiate physical contact or kiss me. It's almost my birthday and your priority is not your husband, it is a past ex-lover. Checking-up on past lovers and their present life seems to be a hobby (can't think of a better term right now) of yours. It borders obsessive. Again, not something that a married woman and mother does. Clearly, your husband is not your priority. Like last time, this is something that you pursued all on your own. Question: Is it boredom? stress? resentment? What causes you to seek attention from other men???? I was in contact with OM1 when I found out (um...no secrecy in marriage and you do open my mail, print and electronic) what you were doing. It doesn't matter if it was immediate or yesterday, but know that we know each other (thank you!). He appears very well spoken and very happy with his marriage and family. He assures me nothing is going on with you two and hadn't had any contact with you for 10 years...Question: What was the trigger that made you want to contact him and tell him how things weren't always that bad? Anyhow, I was filled-in about the email convo. you guys had. I know the truth about what was discussed, I want to hear it from you! What was discussed? Again, you deliberately kept this from me! OM1 also told me about X-Mas cards you had sent to him over the years (recurring theme going forward). Again, you deliberately kept this from me! I know what he does, the ages of his children, and many more details that I shouldn't know. I will never tell you the details as I know this maybe somewhat what you were after, a speaking relationship to start at minimum. Tell me I should think otherwise? Convince me! 

Why don't I confront you with this? I'm hurt for starters, hurt really, really bad! I feel sick to my stomach and at times can't eat. I try to coexist and it's more the same, some good days and some bad days, but going forward I'm skeptical of you based on your past habits. I am hyper-vigilant when it comes to my marriage. I try for stretches to be the 'nice guy', no change in marriage...we fight, we get along, we fight, we get along. Nothing I do or don't do either further helps nor hurts the marriage, we just pursue on. I sense we are in bad shape. I start to try and think of the last time we cuddled, you initiated a cuddle, a kiss, anything! I do nothing and keep quiet foolishly thinking that somehow things will get better because my wife takes her vows of marriage as seriously as I do. She knows what bothers me and will want to fix our marriage. She hasn't (YET) told me she wants to or is considering divorce like she used to. We don't yet know that our son is going to become ill and require surgery. Again, I foolishly thought that a family event, this time a crisis, would bring us closer together...nope. (baby) is sick and the divorce talk is back, but I'm getting ahead of myself...back to the timelime: 

Six months later: Merry X-Mas! Some strange guy that you didn't pursue (never once thought not to going forward, never once considered what your priorities should be) contacts you. You casually mention it (WOO HOO!! small victory of sorts by revealing it to me...short-lived) to me, but offer no details. I seem disinterested as once again I know I must perform surveilance on you. Your conversational tone with this ****head who will be exposed to his government contract employer (If you attempt to alert him in any way of this, we are done for good) and post him on cheaterville.com. I don't know if I will contact him, or save it for a person-to-person confrontation. Know this, if we divorce now because you can't quit him, I will find a way to confront the person that has ruined my marriage and life. Oh yea, he wants to be facebook friends and message you that way (you never got that email) which would be perfect if you could get this ****head to do it with you while he's on work time. He is NOT a friend to the marriage and you will go no-contact with him if there's a chance we reconcile. The consequences are divorce. You retain the same right as I do. You should read "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirly Glass, it will help if you decide to stay with me and the boundaries that I'm forced to set...more on that later. The conversational tone evolves to information and memories (yea, emotional affair well on its way) from the both of you. You learn he is not involved with anyone because YOU don't want to interfere with his relationship (that just pisses me off) because you have in the past?? What??!! X-mas Eve when (son) was with us, X-mas day, New Years (you get my point) during family time, your family was not your priority, you decided to further pursue and maintain contact. 4am emails (even though you never did that with me) not a problem with this guy! You don't remember I'm sure, but you called me on my way to work that morning and I specifically asked how work was and your reply was "busy, it's very busy". I guess it wan't too busy to contact the other man. Again, you deliberately kept this from me. You advise you are married only after he asks. You never once thought of me when connecting with someone to tell them you are married. I see where our marriage stands...sadly, it doesn't define you. Any man, upon learning that a woman is married, would not further/maintain contact with said married woman. This lonely guy unknowingly hit-up a married woman who seeks male attention for some reason? Cards are sent by the two of you (a theme with you) and again, you deliberately kept this from me! (son) seldom asks for anything and seldom sends me a txt message when he is not with us. He didn't know when we were to see him next and needed the information. The calandar is on the fridge. I ask you to check for me, no reply. 30 minutes later I comb-through emails and go to multiple computers at work to get the file to load correctly. I let (son) know what day I plan to see him and alert you. We both know why you couldn't check on this for me/(son)! It was because you fell a sleep on the couch, right? I asked you at least three times if that is what happend, we know how you replied. Why not confront, we have (son) this weekend he doesn't need to be exposed to any of this. Oh yea, what were you doing before (or after) you slept on the couch? You attempted to further hide what happened and remove all evidence the best you know how to, and yet again, you deliberately kept this from me. This was the single-most action (or lack of action) that was most hurtful. I can handle being ignored. You did this to (son) when he needed an answer that you were in the best position to provide. You let us both down! When looking for the parenting plan and found our auto ins. cards, I came across another outbound greeting card...who is this for? No really, which male is that for? You two exchange pics and more txts. I suspect you already tried to remove all traces and further hide things from me. Funny how you are always at the ready for his txts and I, your husband, is not always resonded to. It must be the Dopamine release you feel in a new relationship. Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I am your priority! 

I love you very much and want a better marriage, but your lying and hiding is unacceptable. Would you rather be divorced then have to tell me the truth? There are many questions in this email and I'm sure more will surface. If we are to reconcile:

You will answer all my questions truthfully. 

You will write a no contact letter to this other male which I get to read and send myself. It will talk about how you value your marriage and husband and that your present contact is damaging to your family. Any further attempts of contact from him need to be referred to me. You will not view any emails from him. You will not respond should he contacts you.

You will not mention my intentions to expose the other male. In return, this conversation will stay between us and only us.

Spying/stalking of past love interests will stop.

All passwords of all email, txt, devices, etc... and you will surrender those devices when I wish to check them. You will no longer delete anything. This includes any contacts in any application or phone starting right now. No more secrets!

No more behavior that is unlike the script of a wife and mother.

You will agree to take a polygraph exam should I so choose. I will choose the provider, probably the one the police use. I will write some of the questions.

We will attend marriage counseling should either of us choose to do so. We will select a counselor together and decide if their qualifications are acceptable.

You will not tell me to "get over" what you have done and attempt to minimize what is done.


I will not allow you to blameshift your actions onto me, I own my faults in our marriage, but you did what you did because of you, not me. Most of my behavior stems from knowing what I do and allowing it to fester past a point where you have no plausible deniability. If you are not willing to meet my conditions of reconciliation, now or in the future, divorce will be my only option. I'm sorry it has come to this. I really want our marriage to work and for us to return to a point that we once were at. Understand I know the timing is bad with you starting a new job, but I can't let this go any longer. I didn't control the timeline, I'm just responding to it.


***I will update more, give more info. soon as the PM's have asked for some more detail. Know this though, I'm staying in a room mate arrangement for the baby's sake***


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I don't see anything in that letter that is going to change anything.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Did you do a paternity test on the baby?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> SO...should I be worried? What should I do? What should I watch for? What is your take on this?


I have some experience here. After divorcing my x-wife, a woman that I was dating, and got pretty serious with, hated my x-wife too. Understandable. My X is a beyotch and tries to pull **** like your X does.

But I told her that my X has no power to deny me anything. I pay my child support and I have my court ordered visitation. And if the X tries to deny me that, she'll be in contempt of court.

Anyway, I told my gf at the time that there is nothing we can do to control the b!tch, and that the best thing to do is just live our lives and enjoy my kids when we have them.

Not good enough. My gf wanted to take over correspondence between the X and me. She thought she was going to call the shots where my kids are concerned. I let her know that wasn't an option, so she gets mad and punishes me by going out bar hopping with her friends.

Well I put a stop to that immediately and told her I no longer want to see her.

I think you need to divorce your wife. I don't say that knee jerk either. Your X will always be a source of tension for you and your wife and your wife will use it as an excuse to justify whatever she does. Your wife is not fit to be married to anyone who has children with an X and isn't mature enough to handle it.
And now she has crossed the line big time. You NEED to divorce her for you and your kids' sake.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

@MrK -- You may be right, but at this point, no questionable/objectionable 'cheater' behaviors have surfaced since I presented her the letter and we (I) talked about how I felt/feel. 

@workindad -- Child conceived via IVF as wife was infertile. Took almost 3 yrs start to finish before IVF docs. able to get it right


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

@vellocet -- I agree, my X will ALWAYS be (as demonstrated) a source of tension in this marriage as well as an excuse for her poor, yet calculated, choices.

The baby needed more surgery the week before X-Mas. The baby will neeed more long-term antibiotic use along with follow-up visits and lab work...my point?...I am staying with the M as the baby is ill. The W has been performing well (cooks, cleans, etc...) except for the bedroom (minus a few months of hyper-bonding post confrontation). I have all passwords and access (plus spyware) and have found nothing suspicious since I confronted. She did do a no contact letter that I sent to OM along with my remarks that I will expose his request to message him while he's at work for a gov't contractor and put him on cheaterville. I have also blocked his number, email addresses, and fb page.

Things are not great, but W did acknowledge she was wrong and won't do it again, whether she does or not remains to be seen.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> @MrK -- You may be right, but at this point, no questionable/objectionable 'cheater' behaviors have surfaced since I presented her the letter and we (I) talked about how I felt/feel.


.....or, like many betrayed spouses, you are not noticing them because you want to stay married.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

After reading a new post where a guy's W is contacting OM and keeping online tabs I realize I let this thread die. I stayed away from TAM for some time to work on my M.

W and I are doing well. We will ALWAYS have issues with my Ex-W. Baby (now 2yrs 4mos) needed more surgery at Lurie Children's (Chicago) and all in total had 8 months antibiotic use.

Read MMSL and Not Just Friends...powerful stuff! My surveillance of W is no longer all-consuming, but for my and my M's sake, I still check all her electronic activity. W got a new job that allows her to have off nights, weekends, and holidays which allows her to spend more time with our infant vs. child care.

She has not strayed since my last post. For my story at least, the letter I presented her with made her realize what was at risk for her should I leave. She has apologized and read Not Just Friends also. She understands my need to grieve on my terms.

We pay more attention to one another. We both now listen to Dr. Laura, when we have time, and appreciate her view on M and family and try to incorporate what she advises as is applicable to us. We hit a rough patch there...one that we never want to encounter again, and with clear expectations and boundaries set, we seem to be on the right path.

I'm not naive and realize her stalker/obsessive behavior may surface again. I take great pride in knowing I have done all I can to change myself and my M! None of this would have been possible without ALL opinions expressed here on TAM in my thread and in others!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> After reading a new post where a guy's W is contacting OM and keeping online tabs I realize I let this thread die. I stayed away from TAM for some time to work on my M.
> 
> W and I are doing well. We will ALWAYS have issues with my Ex-W. Baby (now 2yrs 4mos) needed more surgery at Lurie Children's (Chicago) and all in total had 8 months antibiotic use.
> 
> ...


Looks good! You have the right tools in place. The only thing I have a question about is how empathetic is she to you? I mean, she apologized, but does she comfort your when you trigger? Does she help you thru the bad days? Other than that, it seems things could go well for you as long as there is no relapse and she or the OM doesn't go fishing.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> Looks good! You have the right tools in place. The only thing I have a question about is how empathetic is she to you? I mean, she apologized, but does she comfort your when you trigger? Does she help you thru the bad days? Other than that, it seems things could go well for you as long as there is no relapse and she or the OM doesn't go fishing.


She verbalized that she knows I will take time to heal by saying "Take as long as you need" and " I'm sorry I said that". When i have bad days, she offers to go through the events with me. She's had a few good cries when I've bring it up. She also reminds me politely when I'm slacking on my end such as: I didn't start/do laundry, needs help cleaning-up after a meal, or dishes weren't done/ put away. I think the reality that I will walk and she can't afford that is also a factor seeing that she would have more to lose in reality than gain in fantasy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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