# Tragedy changing our relationship (sorry so long)



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

My husband and I have had a rocky relationship to say the least. But for 6 years we have struggled through it. In January we hit a particularly rough point that had me moving out of town by March. 3 weeks later, I came back to town and about a week after that, I moved back into our home. This came with a lot of stipulations such as disconnecting my cell phone, and quitting my job in favor of being a SAHM again. 

The first couple of months were great but resentment started to build as I started looking at all the things I had given up to try to make our marriage work but felt he had not even tried to meet my needs. I was planning on having a talk with him about it but was waiting until after our birthdays (his is the day before mine) so we could have our celebrations without any negative thoughts or feelings hanging over us. Really, I was just procrastinating.

The day after my birthday a disaster struck. During a storm, our roof was ripped off and we lost nearly all of the contents of our home in the ensuing hail and rain. The ceilings started caving in under the weight of the water soaked insulation, one even fell on my head. Anyway, I feel like our marriage has taken a turn in this past week.

Our reactions were SO different. While the water was pouring through the ceilings, I was a complete wreck. Crying uncontrollably and though I was on the phone trying to get in touch with insurance and emergency services, I was absolutely no help in trying to save our possessions. My H however, immediately jumped into action and started saving what he could. I eventually calmed down but still wasn't much help in getting stuff out of the house. I was overwhelmed and didn't know where to start! My oldest son, who does not live with us, came to help. My H was barking at him, and at me, and I finally snapped and told him to knock it off. That we were trying our best to do what we could. I also apologized that I had been no help at first. I couldn't believe that I actually stood up to him, and that it seemingly had an effect. He stopped yelling at us. He became very quiet and despondent and I'm not sure how much of that was our interaction, or just the reality of our loss starting to sink in for him.

Somewhere along the way, I ended up taking charge. He hasn't been back to the house in days and spends his time sleeping at the hotel while I am at the house meeting with the insurance adjusters, overseeing the crews who came to pack up the house and go through everything, and now, the demolition. I am not sure if he just doesn't want to go because it's too much for him or if he feels I overstepped him. I'm on a first name basis with all of the contractors while I'm not sure he even knows what companies are working for us or who is doing what.

My parents started rolling their eyes and commenting about how he was behaving. When my father stated how ridiculous it was that my H was doing x instead of y, he stopped as soon as I simply said "He's my husband. I have to stand by him and support him even if I don't agree." My mother continues to make snarky comments but she's always been the most passive aggressive person I've ever met, so she's pretty easy to ignore. But what I said to my father keeps coming back to me.

I'm having trouble accepting our new roles as they are. I am glad that I finally stood up to him and started defending our children when he is yelling at or belittling them. While I don't mind taking care of all the paperwork and being the go-to for the multiple people we are now dealing with day to day, I am almost resentful. I feel like I have to do it or it won't get done. Yet I am also responsible for getting the kids to school (a chore now that we are living out of a hotel and I not only have to get them up but drive them when he used to walk them to school), taking care of meals, bedtimes, etc. I feel like he should be doing more! This isn't a situation where I feel I can stop enabling him. It's not like I feel like he should do more housework so I let it get messy enough that he will clean it. These are things that HAVE to be done and he isn't doing them! I'm pretty sure he will take charge again once the rebuild is complete and it's time to refurnish. (He loves shopping while I generally hate it!)

When he first took charge and I was a mess, I looked at him with so much respect. But now I get so angry when I'm sitting at our destroyed house taking inventory of our losses for insurance and I know he's kicking back at the hotel watching TV. I'm trying to be understanding that he's probably depressed but that empathy doesn't last long before I get resentful again. I feel like I'm having to make excuses for his absence to everyone when they ask why he's not helping me. 

Here's the real kicker though, when we are together at the hotel in the evenings, all my anger just goes away and we are closer than ever. He's even initiating sex again and he hasn't done that in a LONG time!

I'm so confused. I don't even know if I have a question for my TAM friends, or if I just needed to get this all out. I guess I do... Should I tell him I want more help with the kids and/or the house or just ride this out and enjoy the closeness we are having in the evenings. Something that I'm positive would change if he did get more involved at this point.


----------



## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

So sorry to hear what happened to your house, MyHappyPlace.

... and... if this was my husband behaving like that in a situation like this... I would kick his butt.

Sorry... do not know what else to say.

Are you okay?


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

ETA for getting into something semi permanent? Obviously a house takes 90 days AFTER permitted with a level graded empty lot.

Tornado?

Odd reaction. Males are often naturals at the part you loved in him. As I see it you both reacted exactly as your DNA has programmed you to. Males tend to react well to "make the best of it, react, and execute" 

I have zero idea why he fell down right afterward.

When did the initial tragedy happen?
When did he start screwing up after that?
When do you get into a temp apartment from the hotel?

Probable advice wait until you get to the temp apartment to do the discussions.

?depression?


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

WOW! Your family is going through some rare and trying times, I can't even imagine. My family has gone through basement floods due to hurricanes, but nothing of the magnitude of your losses.

What struck me is how you and your husband actually work as a team. A tag-team. When you are not capable of handling things he takes over. When he is "done", you take over. I admire you both in that regard.

Is it possible that your husband is seeing you doing such a great job of handling things that he is simply staying out of your way? (Part of that "tag-team" analogy?) What if you simply told your husband that you needed him? You love him, you respect him, this is hard on both of you and yes - you need him. Do you think a statement like that will wake him up to realizing that you don't need a "tag" partner, you need his help while you are also engaged?

It will takes months to get your lives back together in your home, and since you and your husband seem to still love each other and have gotten closer to each other, now would be a good time to recognize each others good qualities and to go from there. He is capable. You are capable. Now is a great time to work together as a team and not a tag-team.

I sincerely wish the best for your family and hope that this tragedy brings you closer together.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

In times of great stress and anxiety, we tend to go to our default behavior. During the storm, your husband took charge and barked out orders. But then, upon your insistence he treat you and your son more respectfully, he realized he had to back off or he would destroy the relationship he was trying to rebuild. The trouble comes when he doesn't know HOW to both back off and partner with you, which is probably something new for him, while at the same time cope with the devastation of losing everything in the storm while trying to rebuild his marriage.

This is a LOT for a person to cope with. So he is shutting down and pulling back because sometimes doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing.

You have to bring him out of it. Give over to him some things you want him to do. If it's morning school run, ask him to help out tomorrow morning and get the kids to school so you can sleep in. Confide in him that you both are stressed and you really need to get a long nights rest. Ask him to come with you for a specific meeting with contractors or what ever. Tell him you need his calm presence. You know him and you know what competence he naturally brings to the table, bring that out in him.

You can look at this as a golden opportunity to rebuild a healthy relationship with loving, kind and effect communication patterns. He clearly has it in him to take charge and get things done, but was stymied by the conditions placed on him, though it seems rightly so... Help him by affirming what he brings to the table, by affirming how you need his strength, by voicing how stressful and scary this whole ordeal has been. Reassure him that this is a time to learn to work together and you BELIEVE that your relationship will come out so much stronger if you two work together building each other up as you rebuild your home.

You will make it through this. Everyone is healthy and whole so the rest is all annoying details!


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> =
> Odd reaction. Males are often naturals at the part you loved in him. As I see it you both reacted exactly as your DNA has programmed you to. Males tend to react well to "make the best of it, react, and execute"


This is, of course, ridiculous. Female DNA programs us to freeze and cry in an emergency. Sigh...

FYI, there are gender differences. One survey of fire victims found that men were more likely to focus on fighting the fire and women more likely to get other people out of the building. "More likely" meaning everyone's different, but general tendencies are observable (probably more cultural than genetic, but that's just a guess).


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

@betulanana, Physically we are all okay. Emotionally, we are all a mess. The 5 year old is severely traumatized as she was there when it started and watched her brother's room cave in before I could get her out of the house and to my parents. She went to school the next morning and the teacher reported she was very withdrawn. She got sick over the weekend which I think was perpetuated by stress and has not gone back to school yet even though she seems to be feeling better. I think she's more terrified of being away from us than anything as until now, she has been excited about and loved going to school. She will return tomorrow though. The 12 year old is distraught but using this to his full advantage as his schoolwork got lost/destroyed and his teachers are excusing it instead of requesting it be redone. I don't think it affected him as badly as he didn't actually SEE it happening. He's living it up in the hotel! :smthumbup:

@weightlifter, it was a monsoon storm/microburst and happened 6 days ago. The wind just ripped up the roofing and exposed the plywood which allowed the water to permeate and run rampant. It also took the cooler down and exposed a gaping hole into the vent system so that didn't help either. The walls were still standing but there was so much water damage that they are now in the process of gutting the entire house and doing a complete rebuild. The timeline seems to change daily and depends on who we talk to. Yesterday the demo team said it would take 2 days to gut it but when they started today, the lead technician said he didn't realize how extensive it was and that it would take up to a week just to pull it all down. Then the rebuild can't even start until the roof is replaced but I have that scheduled for next week. So we really don't know but in the meantime, the insurance is keeping us in the hotel on a week to week basis. Totally cost ineffective as it is upwards of $200 a night plus they are comping our meals because I said I could handle breakfast and lunch but there wasn't a lot I could do about a dinner for 4 out of a microwave. So hopefully they will realize that it would be cheaper to put us in an apt for a few months... 
He was "in charge" for the first 2 nights. Cleaning out what he could salvage at night while I stayed with the kids. But hasn't done much since even though he hasn't returned to work yet either. I do believe he's depressed, but he's a "manly man" LEO and would never seek any kind of help for it even if he did ever admit it. Which he won't. I blame his parents... lol

@survivorwife, Thank you. I hadn't thought of it that way before and I like it! I think if I go with that "tag-team" perspective, I will likely be less resentful of what he isn't doing and look for what he has and will do!


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

So for now, this is my game plan. I will take weightlifter's advice and hold off on any serious discussions until our lives are a little better than living in a hotel. However, I will also heed Survivor's and Anon's ideas to coax him into added support by bringing out the positive in him that I so desperately need right now. When I originally wrote the post, it was with a negative mind set. "Damnit, snap out of it and help me!!" But after the wisdom of TAM, my perspective has changed enough to approach it differently. I think I can now say "I know it's difficult for you to see the house, so could you take over homework duties and start compiling lists/price estimates of the rebuild." As I said, I he loves shopping so if he wants to pick all the new furniture, appliances, etc., he can have at it. Sure, it's a bit premature at this point, but knowing that he's doing something will greatly help my attitude. Then we can sit down in the evenings and I can tell him about the progress at the site and he can show me a picture of our new couch!


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

MyHappyPlace said:


> So for now, this is my game plan. I will take weightlifter's advice and hold off on any serious discussions until our lives are a little better than living in a hotel. However, I will also heed Survivor's and Anon's ideas to coax him into added support by bringing out the positive in him that I so desperately need right now. When I originally wrote the post, it was with a negative mind set. "Damnit, snap out of it and help me!!" But after the wisdom of TAM, my perspective has changed enough to approach it differently. I think I can now say "I know it's difficult for you to see the house, so could you take over homework duties and start compiling lists/price estimates of the rebuild." As I said, I he loves shopping so if he wants to pick all the new furniture, appliances, etc., he can have at it. Sure, it's a bit premature at this point, but knowing that he's doing something will greatly help my attitude. Then we can sit down in the evenings and I can tell him about the progress at the site and he can show me a picture of our new couch!


Excellent! :smthumbup:

A very positive approach to a difficult situation and I'm sure he will respond in a positive manner.


----------



## bn311 (Aug 28, 2013)

So sorry about your home. That sounds very stressful! I think you are right, maybe your husband was depressed and overly stressed and maybe you taking over has kind of helped to put him at ease. But I also agree that he does need to help you out. Maybe if you just start out by giving him a couple small assignments and be kind and respectful about it, wording it in a way that will make him feel like his help is needed but not like an attack. Hope this helps


----------



## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

I like your gameplan.
I have to admit the others advice has been far better than mine.

That must have been a horrible experience for your daughter. I wish I could say something helpful, but I must be honest: I have no idea how to deal with I situation like this 

Praying for you.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MyHappyPlace said:


> So for now, this is my game plan. I will take weightlifter's advice and hold off on any serious discussions until our lives are a little better than living in a hotel. However, I will also heed Survivor's and Anon's ideas to coax him into added support by bringing out the positive in him that I so desperately need right now. When I originally wrote the post, it was with a negative mind set. "Damnit, snap out of it and help me!!" But after the wisdom of TAM, my perspective has changed enough to approach it differently. I think I can now say "I know it's difficult for you to see the house, so could you take over homework duties and start compiling lists/price estimates of the rebuild." As I said, I he loves shopping so if he wants to pick all the new furniture, appliances, etc., he can have at it. Sure, it's a bit premature at this point, but knowing that he's doing something will greatly help my attitude. Then we can sit down in the evenings and I can tell him about the progress at the site and he can show me a picture of our new couch!


This is good, I hope it works.

On my second read through something else occurred to me, though it may not be appropriate to your husband.

Both my father and my husband, during times when they were in fear for the safety of their family, reacted with extreme anger. Out of place anger that kind of lingered. When Ive seen my husband like this, what has always followed was a couple of days of shutting down and withdrawing. As if he simply couldn't cope with the thought of what ifs... But then he snapped out of it.

I was thinking maybe that's what you're seeing in your H. Any one of you could have been killed or seriously injured. As a man, those kinds of scenarios where protecting his family is an absolute instinct, is traumatic. He is confronted with the reality that he is not in control and that takes time to process.

Just a thought...


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Well my game plan didn't work out quite as planned.  I came back to the hotel yesterday (after being up for almost 11 hours) and had to wake him up to sign some papers that needed his signature too. He immediately jumped down my throat about how he shouldn't have to be doing any of this, that the insurance agent should be taking care of it, blah blah blah. After listening, and trying to explain the process to him for a while, as well as pointing out that if he doesn't want to do it, the house can sit in rubble until the cows come home but his refusal wasn't going to prompt anyone else to do it FOR him. He just kept *****ing at me and I threw my hands up in the air and said "I'm DONE!" Sprawled my signature where it was needed, handed him a 6 inch stack of paperwork and told him that I was "tired of busting my ass trying to take care of it all, knowing I was NEVER going to get a thank you from him, and having him yell at me like it was somehow MY fault" I ended up walking away to clean the kids' hotel room. When I came back in, he was reading page 1 and already looking totally lost. Then the phone rang and the contractor asked for me because I have been the contact all along. I couldn't force myself to hand the phone back to my H because I didn't want to do that to the contractor. They don't need to hear him complaining like a child about how he shouldn't have to do anything because this wasn't his fault! Nor should they have to to start over explaining everything to him. So I ended up taking over again anyway. So much for my big exit! I'm so disappointed. Both in myself and in my H. I can't believe how much of a child he is acting like. I was both emotionally and physically drained after a 19 hour day yesterday and asked him to take care of bed time for the kids. He immediately yelled at the 5 year old to brush her teeth, something she has ALWAYS had help with and then barked at her again when she didn't move fast enough for him. Grrr. I can't even threaten to take the kids to a hotel if he doesn't shape up, we're already here under my credit card!


----------



## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Oh boy.... this must have been frustrating.

Does he have any close friends by the way? You could talk to them and ask them to talk to him.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Unfortunately, he has zero friends. He does not socialize at all!! He goes to work, he comes home to drink and sleep. He doesn't even talk to anybody in his family. It's a wonder he ever talked to me enough to form a relationship. Of course, that was back when he actually seemed like a human who enjoyed life, and me for that matter. Darn, my positive attitude seems to be missing for the evening... he has once again sucked the life out of me.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh wow...This is such a mess for you!

It seems like you need to just focus on the here and now because you're not getting the kind of support you need from him. He needs professional help but let's not add that to your list too!

Just focus on what you need done. if he is crabby and short with the kids, get involved only if you MUST! My H used to do this when I guilted him into actually being a hand on parent. he taught me that demanding this from him would hurt the kids so I stopped. The resentment and frustration only grew.

Is there any way you two can take some time for yourselves away from all this? You H really needs to step up or this will break your marriage apart.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

I stopped by his mother's house to pick up some stuff we had put in her shed, including stuff he wanted. I really only went to get the xbox for the kids since we will be here at the hotel so long but thought I would get the stuff I knew he wanted too since I was there anyway. I don't really get along with his mother very well but it was for my kids. 
Then I went to our house to take a final inventory of all the damaged furniture and make sure we had pictures of everything for the insurance. I threw out my back trying to move a desk and my 12 year old ended up riding a bike over to help me off the ground. I went over to my parents' house where I took some muscle relaxants and laid down in hopes it was just a spasm that would go away. This also gave the kids a chance to run amuck and have some fun/make noise without worrying about waking daddy up and making him mad. So we finally get back to the hotel and I had called him asking him to come down so we could get dinner and I told him I couldn't walk well enough to go in anywhere but asked if we could hit a drive thru. He said okay and while waiting for him to come down, our son took up a laundry basket of clothes that my mom had washed for us. Anyway, we go get dinner and when we get back to the hotel, my son is taking more stuff up to the room, I'm trying to carry all the food and my daughter's toy she had asked for. I say trying because I cannot even stand up straight and am in extreme agony just trying to get across the parking lot. What does my husband have? NOTHING! I said "thanks" rather irritably and he says "well, I'm trying to keep the baby safe". She had run ahead and was standing in the hotel lobby waiting for us to catch up. 
After dinner our son started hooking up the xbox and my husband got on his phone (internet). When C (our son) came into the room saying he was missing cords my H started yelling at him about stuff still being in the car and he was selfish and only concerned about getting his xbox hooked up. I was PI$$ED! C took off downstairs to get more stuff out of the car while my H just sat there staring at his stupid phone complaining about the kid only caring about himself. I wanted to go help C and smack my H but can hardly move. I can't believe this man! How in the world do I make him stop treating our son so horribly. I know he's only a "step" son to him but still, he's been the only father my son has known for 6 years as his real dad died 8 years ago. I'm so torn up about this. I am hurting SO badly for this sweet little boy who is trying his best to make people proud of him while battling extreme ADHD and is constantly being cut down by the only dad he knows. I don't know if it's just the stress of everything else, or if I've finally had enough, but I want to leave more than ever. Not for me, but for my kids. They deserve better! But I have nowhere to go and no way to support myself. Is there anything I can do to make the H see why this is so wrong??


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

That is horrible! Inexcusable! It's one thing when a husband acts like a d!ckhead to his wife, but when he acts that way to kids? No way sister!

1. You have to pull your husband aside and insist he treat your son with appropriate dignity and respect. He will no doubt blink thinking it a contradiction in terms to parent with dignity and respect. Show him some web sites for parents with ADHD kids. Insist he learn to parent appropriately ALL the kids, not just his kids.

2. Ask him to leave. Ask him to move in with his mother for a few days while he digs to bug out of his a$$ and learns to treat everyone with respect. Tell him he has been no help at all but now he is actively sabotaging the calm stability you are trying to offer the kids.

I totally feel for you. The boy was trying to do what was best, but impulsivity snapped him once again. Life is too hard as it is for kids with ADHD and they need to have all positive behavior recognized because they have so much negative behavior that needs work.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

I think you're my personal angel therapist Anon.  You have such sound, rational advice. I wish I wasn't such a baby when it comes to talking to H. I'm usually so afraid of upsetting him that I say nothing until I snap. Then we yell for a while and when things calm down it's like nothing ever happened and nothing ends up changing except I build up MORE resentment. I need to not be so afraid of talking to him. If he gets upset at least it will be at me and maybe he won't take it out on the kids so much. He gets home in less than an hour, I think I shall practice what I'm going to say... because this has gone on too long. I WILL stand up for my kids and say it!


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Maybe you writng out what you wnat to say EVERTIME you start getting resentful about his actions or inactions would be best. That way you do not have to be afraid and you can think more about what you are going to say. Give him the notes and then be away from him for a while so that he can ponder the contents. 

Tell him in the notes for him to respond to you in writing an dgive his reponse to you after the emotions are settled down. That way anger can best be handledi

You seem to have a tendency to be more responisble and ansious about taking care of issues than he is. You jumped back in when he was trying to handle the contractor and insurance things. WHY? Your concern more for the contractors than your husband learning is not a good enough excuse.

Your concern for the contractors was more than your concern that he have to handle the tasks and learn to be more of a team player. In fact if he handled the task he probably would appreciate what you have been doing a little more. That was your goal all along was for him to handle the issues but you jumped back in and took over. I think that was a mistake.

Your husband needs to be more understanding of your son. With your notes educate him how his son needs to have his father's approval and how much the father can encourage his son.

Even If your husband improves in these areas you need to get into a position that you are much more self-reliant and can support yourself. in addition, we have not heard your husband's side of the story so maybe you can improve in some of your areas. It is never 100% the other person's fault.

From what you described it does not appear that the issues are bad enough for a D. However, the issue with his fathering his children in a negative way could be an issue for D if it is serious and he does not impove. IMO


BLUNT


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I know how it feels to have a husband who won't improve his parenting skills. I have a 5 year old DD and honestly, I don't know what's going on with her yet... she's very intense, and she doesn't have the skills yet to deal with her intense feelings. She's also very intelligent. I wouldn't be surprised if she is bi-polar as an adult, but hopefully not. I've talked with the school psychologist about her, but she doesn't speak at all at school, so they don't see any of her explosive side. Anyway, she's difficult to parent. I've taken the initiative to have her evaluated for sensory disorder (H didn't take much interest in that) and read a bunch of books to broaden my parenting skill set. I picked the 2 I liked best (with my favorite parts highlighted or underlined already), and he still hasn't read them.

Ugh, it's the worst feeling. Kids like this are going through enough, and I think we owe them our best to ease the burden as much as we can. But my H will just engage her in some kind of confrontation, get her riled up, and then say "fine, you know what, I don't care," and walk away. 

Totally venting, sorry. I don't think they realize that they don't want to bring out our mama bear instincts and wind up with that fury aimed at them. I wish I had a solution here for you!!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

northernlights said:


> I know how it feels to have a husband who won't improve his parenting skills. I have a 5 year old DD and honestly, I don't know what's going on with her yet... she's very intense, and she doesn't have the skills yet to deal with her intense feelings. She's also very intelligent. I wouldn't be surprised if she is bi-polar as an adult, but hopefully not. I've talked with the school psychologist about her, but she doesn't speak at all at school, so they don't see any of her explosive side. Anyway, she's difficult to parent. I've taken the initiative to have her evaluated for sensory disorder (H didn't take much interest in that) and read a bunch of books to broaden my parenting skill set. I picked the 2 I liked best (with my favorite parts highlighted or underlined already), and he still hasn't read them.
> 
> Ugh, it's the worst feeling. Kids like this are going through enough, and I think we owe them our best to ease the burden as much as we can. But my H will just engage her in some kind of confrontation, get her riled up, and then say "fine, you know what, I don't care," and walk away.
> 
> Totally venting, sorry. I don't think they realize that they don't want to bring out our mama bear instincts and wind up with that fury aimed at them. I wish I had a solution here for you!!


Kids like your daughter NEED tage team parenting. This must be so frustrating for you! I hope you find a way to get your H on board because. You'll need his support. You'll need to be able to say, "Tag your It, I need a break!"


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Vent away Happy Place!


----------



## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Kids like your daughter NEED tage team parenting. This must be so frustrating for you! I hope you find a way to get your H on board because. You'll need his support. You'll need to be able to say, "Tag your It, I need a break!"


Yes! It's exhausting to work this hard every day. I'm always having to think on my feet, override my first impulse, and when I get really, really frustrated, I just have to rise over it. If we were a team and I could count on my H to take over when I'm overwhelmed, it'd mean the world to me. And my daughter would have calmer, better parents. But he does the opposite! He starts fights and then leaves me to pick up the pieces. I get more help from our 8 year old than I do from him.

Honestly, it feels like a betrayal, that's the best way I can describe it. I'm certain that the divorce rate correlates to how difficult your kids are, and I totally understand why.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh boy. I have a bad bad feeling about your marriage, MHP.

When my wife went to the hospital I was damn near carrying her until a nurse with a wheelchair arrived. THEN I got her stuff.

Not carrying ANYTHING???

For one. The job title of husband includes the title of load monkey 
This is in effect even when the wife does not have a screwed up back. Its in his marriage contract section 12 subsection j paragraph 3. And I quote. "You will carry the bulk of stuff most of the time. This will be forever referred to as the load monkey clause" (Its right after the section on NEVER answer the question of "does this make me look fat" and right before the bug and spider killer section)


----------



## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> Odd reaction. Males are often naturals at the part you loved in him. As I see it you both reacted exactly as your DNA has programmed you to. Males tend to react well to "make the best of it, react, and execute"
> 
> I have zero idea why he fell down right afterward.


I am sorry to say I have not found this to be the case. In fact as I was reading I figured she would end up picking up the pieces.
Can't tell you how many times I have had to deal with these situations. Maybe 5 days after neurosurgery I was in so much pain that I hadn't slept in days when our place flooded. I was the one doing all the work while he stayed in bed.

I think it's not in our DNA to cry, and freak out...

It seems like you have had issues in your relationship and this was another bigger problem... too much stress and you lost your cool for a moment.

Have you tried telling him that you need his help and are feeling resentful that he is just hanging out? Better yet TELL HIM you need him to meet with x for y.. give him a job. Maybe that will wake him up.


----------



## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

And of course I forgot the most important part- I am sorry about all the things you lost... but happy you are okay!!!!


----------



## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

northernlights said:


> I've taken the initiative to have her evaluated for sensory disorder (H didn't take much interest in that) and read a bunch of books to broaden my parenting skill set. I picked the 2 I liked best (with my favorite parts highlighted or underlined already), and he still hasn't read them.


Sorry to hijack the thread...

After my neurosurgery and STRESS I started experiencing sensory issues aka central sensitization. My hubby became abusive around the time of my recovery and I think it was too much for me.

I had serious problems listening to people talk (it physically hurt me), I could not stand anyone touching me, nor could I stand any clothes with bands (even underwear), serious eye issues- lights were just blinding...

I still have this to an extent with touch. I do not like to be touched lightly.

You may want to look up things like Chiari and EDS, as well as tethered cord. These are closely linked to sensory issues.They are rare birth conditions that can occur without early diagnosis. I was dx at age 29.

If I can help explain any of these let me know.

I got past most of the sensory stuff on Savella which is an SSRI.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyHappyPlace,

Is your husband working at a job through all of this? If so how many hours a week is he working?


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Ele, he was not working at the time. He took emergency leave to deal with stuff. Which in his eyes, meant sleeping all day and staying up drinking all night while screwing around on his phone/internet. He went back to work a few nights ago though and works 40 hrs a week as a LEO. 

Today I decided I needed to say something to him before I blow up again, and instead of attacking him with everything, I picked what I deem the most important issue. I started out by telling him that I am terrified of talking to him because I feel that he often becomes defensive or dismissive. With much irritation, he tossed his phone down and asked what was bothering me. You could hear the derision in his voice. I told him that I don't like the way our son is being treated. That all he (my H) seems to do is criticize and yell at him. He responded saying that C needs to stop screwing around and help out. I almost laughed in his face but was mostly just angry... and sad. I told him that C helps out way more than he is given credit or appreciation for. I pointed out all the times the 12 year old has been left babysitting his 5 year old sister while H was sleeping and I was trying to deal with house stuff. I told him that he needs to drop the C.O. act at the door and be a father when he walks in. He needs to show compassion and nurture our son. BTW, he treats the 5 year old just fine, but she's "his baby girl". Things were just escalating so I decided to take the kids and leave. I gave him a kiss and told him I was leaving because I didn't want to fight. Later I sent him an email suggesting counseling and saying that I loved him and I didn't want our marriage to crumble because we can't figure out how to communicate, respect, and appreciate each other. I asked him to please respond in whatever form he felt most comfortable i.e. email/talking. I have no clue if he even saw the email because I never got a response. 
Here's what I did get... total silence. He was sleeping when we got back from our outing and stayed that way until 7 pm. My daughter and I finally woke him up because she was hungry and he's got the only means in which to buy food. He didn't say a word to us but started his hour long shower ritual. The 5 year old kept asking about dinner and he wouldn't even respond to her. He just sat there staring at the TV. He finally grabbed his keys and said "let's go". I wasn't expecting to go because all the movement trying to take care of the kids on a bad back is only making it worse! But he just gave me this look so I went anyway. He didn't say a word in the car or at dinner. He didn't say anything back at the hotel either. I finally said to him that I didn't know if I should be worried about his silence or just give him his space. No response. He eventually said he had to go to work, gave me a quick peck, and hit the door. 
I should also add that we are on the third floor of the hotel and we have a 120 lb American Bulldog. I cannot take the dog out to potty because of my back and he always acts super irritated if I ask him to do it so I didn't dare ask tonight. My son has been doing it, but I had left him at my mother's house earlier. So when we got back from dinner, there was dog poo all over the hotel floor. I ended up crawling around the floor, in tears from the pain, cleaning it up myself while he literally sat there and watched.
I love my H and want so much for my marriage to work but I don't think he cares anymore.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You said that the hotel is being paid on your credit card. Why don't you have access to money for food?

I get the impression that your husband is upset because you called 
What exactly is it that you find in your husband to care about? He has been awful to you through all of this. Is there any chance that you can take your children and go stay with your parents?

Why did you move out before and why did you have to give up your job to move back? Why disconnect your cell? Did you cheat?


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

In the hustle and bustle of everything else going on, my wallet has been misplaced so I cannot access my bank account. Plus, I don't really have much money anyway. I only get a few hundred dollars a month for my son because his father is deceased but most of that goes to bills (car insurance, phone bill, kids' website accounts) While my credit card is tied to the hotel, it is not being charged until check out and insurance is actually going to be covering it. We have separate accounts so he does most of the grocery shopping, etc. 

I had a brief EA over 3 years ago. He had completely disconnected from me, and even when I tried to ask him about it, he wouldn't talk to me. While that is no excuse, when another person started showering me with attention, it felt wonderful to have somebody paying attention to me. I believe we have gotten over that mostly, but he had trust issues before we ever met. Both his first 2 wives were awful... yeah, the fact that I'm his third wife should have been my first clue. 
Anyway, when I left earlier in the year, there was a lot going on, but no affairs. I was working a LOT, sometimes over 60 hrs a week and he got injured at work. I knew my crazy schedule was temporary as it is only a 6 week busy schedule before calming down so I called his mother out from TX to help him with the house and kids because I could not take the time off work. His mother perpetrated problems between us and strained things considerably, in the few days she was here. When an amazing career opportunity was offered to me in a different city a few weeks later, I didn't feel like I had much to stay for and jumped on it. While I was out of town he got further injured and I came back to try to take care of him. He went through my phone while I was sleeping and found a text to my best friend about 2 men fighting over me. Had he bothered to read the whole text and taken it in its true context, he would have known it was 2 supervisors fighting over who I would work for. Not to toot my own horn, but I was amazing at my job and had multiple superiors vying for me to work under them. Anyway, he wigged out, we got in a fight, cops were called. Next day I took out a restraining order and left town again. I wanted to fix my marriage, why I had gone home in the first place, but it didn't seem to be happening. I fell apart and came back to town permanently. Stayed with my parents for a week before rescinding the order and working things out. Well, not really... we never really talked about what had happened. I was at our house talking to him about the kids and was standing by the door getting ready to leave when he told me to go to bed. I did and we just kind of fell back into place together. One of the problems with my job was there were no set hours. It was a matter of go to work at such and such time but you never knew when you would be done. Sometimes it was 2 hours, sometimes it was 16. Plus, it got to the point where I would get home, sleep for 3 hours and go back to work. It was not nurturing to my marriage or my children, but I was receiving praise and appreciation that I wasn't getting at home. I guess you could equate it to an EA but not with a person, just my job in general. 
Without the job, I had no need for a phone, so that went out with the job and I settled in to be a SAHM again.

I cannot go back to my parents again. Beyond there not being enough room as they already have 2 of my children living with them and cannot accommodate 3 more people, there is way to much chaos and dysfunction there. They are also mostly taking care of my sister, her husband, and their 4 kids. While they don't live there, they are there constantly and when they aren't my parent's are running them around as they do not drive. Yeah, there is a lot of crazy in my life!
So what do I find in my H to care about? I know he will never cheat on me.  He does provide for me financially. I love sleeping in his arms at night even if we don't get a chance much anymore because he changed to nights. When we met, he was an amazing amount of fun, and I keep waiting for that man to appear again. I've got myself convinced that the changes in him are my fault. That if I were a better wife and mother, he would be a better husband and father. I cannot imagine my life without him. For the month we were apart, I was devastated and wanted nothing more in life than to back with him. Writing this all out sounds incredibly weak. Those are not reasons to stay in an otherwise miserable life... so IDK. I guess it just comes down to I love him and just keep praying that that is enough.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you still feel that strongly about him then I guess you just keep trying until it turns around or you just do not care anymore. Which ever comes first.

Just don't let it go for 12 years like I did. Set a time frame. Set check points that you expect to achieve. Re-evaluate every 3 months for a while. If thins are not better in a year then do an even deeper evaluation of if you still care enough and if things are getting any better. 

I hope they do. 

Do you have any idea why he shuts down like this? Has he ever done this before?

Also, what were the reasons that he gives for his previous marriages ending?


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

He has shut down like this once before. It lasted for weeks and I didn't find out until much much later why. Even then it didn't make sense. I had invited some old friends to our daughter's birthday party. I had only invited people with children but for whatever reason, it turned out to be more dads showing up with their kids instead of moms. This apparently disturbed him greatly. 

He has never been very open to communication, emotion, or accountability. He is very quick to say he loves me but it almost seems automatic or robotic at times. Like he says it because it's the appropriate time to do so. Getting off the phone, leaving the house, etc. There is no spontaneity out of him ever. The accountability I blame on his mother. She's insane and in her eyes, he can do no wrong. I get supporting your children, but she's extreme! I have every belief he grew up with her excusing away EVERYTHING for him. So I think when I confront him with an imperfection per say, he doesn't know how to handle it. Which would also explain why the other reactions of norm for him are defensive or dismissive. Hmm... I'm gaining insight as I write.

He has never said much about his prior marriages but the little bit of information I've gleaned from small quips of his, reading his divorce papers, and talking to his parents: His first marriage was a high school sweetheart who he caught cheating on him. His second marriage resulted in 2 kids while he was in the army. He would get home in the evenings and the house would be filthy, kids in dirty diapers, and he was expected to clean, care for the very young children, and cook dinner. He was already frustrated and spanked his son (2 or 3 at the time) for throwing things. His wife called the cops for child abuse (I've read the MP reports, it was unfounded) and she took off across the country with the kids to live with her parents. He was awarded joint custody but because he was stationed in TX and she was in WI, he couldn't make arrangements to see them. By the time he was in a position to do so, she had everybody convinced he was a monster. He was terrified of what she had told the kids and decided to let them find him if they wanted to when they were older. I think the oldest just turned 18 a few months ago, though I'm not positive of that. He has kept their baby blankets but never talks about them. I happened to find some pictures of them on the internet a few years ago, but he didn't seem interested in seeing them at all. ::Shrug::

While writing this, he called me from work. We had a very pleasant conversation and I told him that with all the stress and disorder going on lately, I thought we needed some time to just be together and relax. He was agreeable. Since his nights off fall on school nights, sitters aren't really an option, but the hotel has a spa and the kids go to bed pretty early. I'm forming a plan here!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You told him what you feel/think. He's processed it. Maybe, just maybe he's taken it to heart. Time will tell. This might be the pattern of how he deals with you pointing out your displeasure about some things (his imperfections). 

Maybe, we can only hope.

See how this goes.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

MHP sorry. Im not known for subtly here but I dont see alot of hope for your marriage. You fell for the cop alpha dog thing? Wife 3... eesh. I still say try to stabilize your situation as much as possible before taking on the biggest parts of your marriage. IE dont fight a two front war.

Might I ask generically how deep the EA went? texting, bonding, whatever.

By the standards here my wifes EA was light at Email spooning but was clearly ramping up and it included me finding out she lied about how long they had been in contact by a factor of 5. She then lies again and "I know that she does not remember time periods real well" Uh yea, she does not know the difference between one month and five months. Ill also confirm my trust is shot 6 months out to the day (03/02/2013) and Im still pissed off though the cause has changed from day 1.

Dday I was pissed off because she was email spooning. Im male, and Im territorial. Sue me. I dont share my wife. Today I am still pissed off because my implicit trust is gone forever. Triggers mostly gone unless she is emailing or says something stupid... Like the time we were sitting on the couch talking and hanging out... She is on an Cityville and I just wanna see her city. I lean back to look at it and she says accusingly "Snooping!?" For a split second there was pure rage in my eyes. Yea she realized the mistake and changed the subject. Rage lasted perhaps 10 seconds and faded fast but was kind of a mood killer for an evening together which started pretty good. Random triggers which make no sense are long gone.

So anyway that is what he is possibly feeling on the EA front.

Sorry to offend all. When I said in the DNA I more meant as a male any time big projects or bad situations happen I am pretty good at making the most out of bad, formulating a plan, then executing same. I do not mean the opposite that women automatically shut down. I have no explanation why OP husband shut down. As a cop he should have followed thru and executed.

Ele nailed it on a plan long term in post 33. Honestly dont let it go too long. If hes not at work with your back fvcked up like that (been there done that) he should have been your chore boy. Making you do stuff now only makes the time of having one able bodied person longer so it is not only rude, it is counter-productive.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

The EA lasted a few days to a week at most. It was inappropriate conversations over the internet. Though I did see the person weekly up to that point, it was never physical and though he will never believe it, it never would have been. I know I destroyed his trust and have worked very hard to rebuild it. Unfortunately, I am a very energetic, social, and friendly person and he is not. So what would be considered "normal" behavior by some, is immediately assumed flirtatious. Knowing the clerks' names at the local gas station that we visit daily, being stopped by an old (male) friend from high school while in a grocery store to say hi, etc. Like I said, I think we have gotten past that. I've learned to keep my head down and if somebody approaches me, give quick curt answers and hustle away. I know I screwed up and I take full responsibility for that. I cannot blame him for insecurities. BUT, I have done everything I could to tell him and show him that my devotion is to him and only him.
As for him shutting down, I think Ele had it right. He took the day to process what I said this morning and reflect on it. Now I can only hope that it has triggered some response from him. Time will tell.
I don't think it would be fair to any of us to make any life altering decisions while our entire worlds are in such chaos. I need to wait until our house is put back together and we get settled before I get too harsh in judgements and ultimatums. I need to remember the good stuff. 
When I broke my knee in a car accident his first reaction was totally pissed that I had wrecked his truck. But the next day I expected to wake up from surgery alone and there he was. I remember being in an anesthetic daze and asking him why he was there and not at work. He told he thought being with me was more important. If I think back enough, I seem to recall that every time there has been an accident/disaster his first reaction is always anger. Maybe it's just a mask because he was raised to not show empathy and compassion. 
I know that I cannot change him. But there were definitely qualities in him that made me fall in love in the first place and maybe I just need to dig a little deeper to find those again. I suppose it's wholly possible that in the daily grind, I have lost sight of those special quirks of his that I loved so much. 
Geez, who needs therapy when I've got TAM? I started out my evening so upset and angry and here I am, about to go to bed, totally complacent. Remembering the first time he told me he loved me (yes, he said it first!) and how he held my hand through labor and cried when our daughter was born... 
Yes, I love my husband and I am not ready to give up on us!


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Actually similar depth to my wifes EA tho it was ramping up. I got it early.

Sounds like no sexting or pictures so sounds like this one tho shorter was stopped early also.


----------



## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

I read your whole story.. and while an EA years ago is maybe a big deal to your relationship (maybe because he won't tell you)

WHY is he taking this out on your kids?

There is no excuse for his behavior- as he is a grown man. If he has problems and doesn't know how to deal he should give you money and leave to cool down or think about his actions.

I'm worried that if this ever ends you will be in MY situation, which is ex taking everything after making you perplexed and question your sanity for 2 years.

There is a point where IF conversations are not going anywhere there is something off about him. 

Do you think he is cheating?
He is making this whole situation seem like some HUGE inconvenience in his life and sulking like a baby. Do you think this is intentional to get you to leave? Or did this ruin some plans he had?

I noticed this about my stbx... and he was doing some amazing things behind my back. I always thought I was just "misunderstanding" him and why he was acting like a 10 year old.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MHP,

Have you found your wallet? The last thing you need right now is for someone to stumble upon it and use your cards, your id, etc.

You are under a lot of stress right now. Is there something that you can do for yourself that would make you feel better? 

Is there a Church near you that has a mother's day out program where you can take your children and get a few hours to go do something healthy?

There are also things like the day out for kids in the evening so that you and your husband can go out.

There is a gymnastics school where I live that has a parent's night out on Friday & Saturdays. It's basically baby sitting but they keep the kids active with gymnastics. I used to take my son to it. He loved it. His best friend would go on the same nights so it was really good for him. He was 3.5 yrs old when I started taking him. 

In all of this chaos carve out some time for yourself.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Update??

The morning following the pleasant phone conversation while he was at work, we got into an argument that ended with the statement that we just really aren't a good fit for each other and me leaving with the kids for the day. I stayed gone most of the day and he went to work that night. 

The next day (Tuesday) was eggshell city! I know he likes to be involved with our daughter so I tentatively asked if he wanted to go with me to pick her up from school. He said yes and after a bit we just kind of fell back into our routine where everything was okay. We went out to dinner like we do every Tuesday and he had the equivalent of 4 beers and stopped for a 6 pack on our way home. This is normal for his nights off. Somehow or another, and I really can't seem to recall HOW it started, there was a massive blow up. He ended up throwing his beer, iphone, expensive electronic cigarette, laptop, and managed to break his glasses too among other things! Screaming at me about everything under the sun from kids to sleeping on bare mattresses. I was the psycho wife he hates and he is divorcing me. I was crying and begging him to stop behaving that way. I eventually tried to lock myself in the bathroom but he started banging on the door and I didn't want the kids to wake up to this or anybody in the hotel to call the cops. I tried going to sleep with our daughter in the other room, but he followed me in and again, I didn't want him waking them so I ended up back in our room. Eventually things settled and we went to sleep. The next day I stayed in the kids' room as much as possible. But he got up and after a few hours of just staring at the ceiling, acted like everything was okay. Not another word was said about divorce or how much he hates me. It's literally being treated as if NOTHING EVER HAPPENED! 

It's been 5 days now and I'm going along with it because it's the simple thing to do. I know this isn't okay. But I can't say anything because it will just cause another fight. I don't want to fight anymore! I want us to get help, though we can't afford it by a long shot! Plus, as long as he doesn't think he's done anything wrong, it won't matter what a counselor says. 
I'm so conflicted. I'm intelligent enough to know that I should probably get out and do it NOW! But I don't want to. I want to fix this. I love him with all my heart and truly believe we could be great together. I just don't know what else I can do if he isn't willing to do his part. Guess for now I just become a better housekeeper (one of his complaints), stop asking for sex so often (another of his complaints) and keep our ADHD son on a tighter leash (another complaint).


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How often do you ask for sex?

He's not going to change until he is hit with the proverbial 2x4. 

How much longer until your house is ready? This hotel situation is too stressful.

I think you need a job. As it is right now you are in a position when he can treat you like this. You are dependent on him and he knows you are not going to leave without some way to take care of the children.

Yes, you want to fix it. But sometimes you have to be willing to lose something in order to get it back. You are teaching him that it's ok for him to treat you like this.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

We are in the hotel until at LEAST some time in October. They cannot start the rebuild inside the house until the roof is done and that keeps getting pushed back due to weather. We are probably looking closer to November or even December.

I was working when we met (that's actually HOW we met) but had to stop when I was put on bed rest when I was 4 months pregnant with our daughter. At that point we had only been together just over 4 months. I didn't work again until she was about 3 1/2 and worked for 19 months. Loved my work but it caused severe problems in our marriage. I have a rocky work history anyway and he's even pointed out that there is always some kind of sexual issue. I was fired from one job for insubordination when I refused an affair with my boss. Had no way to prove it and since I live in a right-to-work state, he could say whatever he wanted about why he fired me. My next job, another superior was fired when he sent me an unwanted/unasked for picture of himself naked and I reported it to HR. Next job after that I was dating a co-worker and ended that relationship when I met my H. Most recent job there was nothing of that sort going on, but I suspect he always suspected it. That's the job I really loved and had to quit when returning home this past April. I have contemplated getting another job but 1) I really do love being a SAHM and being able to volunteer at the kids' schools and be closely involved. 2) I would only be able to work part time between the hours of 9 AM and 1:30 PM. Not many employers out there looking for such weird specific hours!

As for sex, I generally want it all the time. It's a vicious cycle. The more emotionally neglected I feel, the more I want sex. The more I get sex, the more I want sex. I know this bothers him. He doesn't understand that it's not the physical act but the intimacy I'm really craving. I've tried taking care of the physical side myself but it doesn't do anything to help my emotional quirk and it just desensitizes me physically. I don't even necessarily want intercourse all the time. I'm just as happy giving him oral but even that seems to irritate him. I'm just ridiculously HD?? and having just hit 30 seem to be hitting/maintaining a peak. He has just turned 44 and has little to no desire and rarely initiates unless he's been drinking, which quite frankly, doesn't help the situation at all.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So the two of you are really mismatched in your sex drive. Plus you are not getting your needs for just plain emotional intimacy met. 

If you are going to stay with him, it sounds like you just need to get very busy. He's just not there for you.


And he sounds like an guy who is just angry for no reason at all.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

You're absolutely right, as usual! I do need to get and stay very busy! I was thinking about it and we didn't fight AT ALL for the first 5 months I was back home. And I was extremely preoccupied with a project I was working on. I finished that project just a few weeks before the house thing and the fighting started again. With the rebuild coming up, I can throw myself into that as well as the volunteer work. I've also just started reading through Flylady.net and while I can only implement oh so much in a hotel room, plan on keeping up on it once back home. I'm also thinking I should start a journal. I've found that venting on here has been ever so helpful and writing things out lets me go back and look at it when emotions are different and offer a different perspective. It won't be the same as getting feedback from others but I don't feel right coming here to "just vent". I will remain an active member though because I'd like to think that maybe I can give some insight to others and their situations


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Uhboy. MHP... you know its over right?


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Why did you file a restraining order against him after your fight?

Was he physical with you then, or any other time?

I can see why the guy's got trust issues. He was cheated on in his first marriage, you had an admitted EA with a guy who you were also 'with' in a physical sense even though there was no sex. Were you alone with the guy? If I was him I wouldn't believe you either.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Oh don't say that WL. That makes me oh so sad. I can try harder to be a better wife... and yes, I know how incredibly co-dependent and abused that sounds. But the fact of the matter is, I love him and will do anything to keep him. If he wants out, he has to do the walking this time and I don't actually see him doing that as long as I keep the house clean and the kids under control.

Lenzi, yes the restraining order was issued because of a physical altercation. He's never physically hit me but has injured me in other ways. Always, ALWAYS when he's been drinking! But that's a different issue entirely. 
I really do believe we are past the EA. He used to bring it up when we were fighting but hasn't mentioned it in years now. No, the guy and I were never alone together, in fact we only saw each other in a large group setting with multiple other adults and children around. My husband knows this and after the few days of inappropriate messages, we never saw each other again as I withdrew my children from the program. 
I don't really understand the comment about not believing me either. Our current situation has absolutely nothing to do with trust issues. The only reason that was ever even mentioned was because the question arose of why I left my job. He didn't demand it but I offered and it became a part of our reconciliation agreement. The ridiculous and inconsistent hours I was working would raise alarm with a 100% trusting spouse! He has also inflicted his fair share of emotional hurt and we both ended up with trust and jealousy issues. However, I also believe we have healed together. Also, if he were still so upset and thought I was so untrustworthy, I don't think he would have married me 2 1/2 years later.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Even though he married you, it's clear the EA still bothers him and he doesn't trust you, which is why he blew up over that whole "2 guys at work fighting over you". These types of things simmer, but they never completely go away.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

MyHappyPlace said:


> Oh don't say that WL. That makes me oh so sad. I can try harder to be a better wife... and yes, I know how incredibly co-dependent and abused that sounds. But the fact of the matter is, I love him and will do anything to keep him. If he wants out, he has to do the walking this time and I don't actually see him doing that as long as I keep the house clean and the kids .


That makes ME sad. I see mucho pain and disrespect in your future. Yes iknow. Your road.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

I know. Unfortunately, so do I. But there are so many reasons I *can't* go...
Co-dependency, spiraling self esteem, the idea that he would probably spend the rest of his life alone, the idea that nobody "better" would accept me and all my baggage... 
The list goes on and on.
I'm a pathetic hot mess. I know that. Maybe someday I will find affordable IC and fix me. But in the mean time I will remain the desperate housewife who allows the behavior and finds excuses to blame herself because to think the man I fell in love with really just doesn't care enough to treat me right is way too painful!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyHappyPlace said:


> I know. Unfortunately, so do I. But there are so many reasons I *can't* go...
> Co-dependency, spiraling self esteem, the idea that he would probably spend the rest of his life alone, the idea that nobody "better" would accept me and all my baggage...
> The list goes on and on.
> I'm a pathetic hot mess. I know that. Maybe someday I will find affordable IC and fix me. But in the mean time I will remain the desperate housewife who allows the behavior and finds excuses to blame herself because to think the man I fell in love with really just doesn't care enough to treat me right is way too painful!


Over time you will fall out of love with him. Them most likely grow to hate him. That's how this works for most people in your situation.

Honestly, you would be better off to get a job and start becoming independent. That way you have options.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Over time you will fall out of love with him. Them most likely grow to hate him. That's how this works for most people in your situation.
> 
> Honestly, you would be better off to get a job and start becoming independent. That way you have options.


Ele has mucho wisdom there. AT LEAST start making yourself more financially independent.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

I know, and I DO want to work... kind of. lol I love being a SAHM and being able to devote so much time to my kids. With that said, I miss my job. I know I can't go back to that one because of the insane hours, but would like to find something, even part time. Unfortunately, my availability is between the times that school start and school end so I could only work between 9 and 1:30. The only place I can think of that would hire for such retarded hours is McD's and I was turned down by them years ago for being "over-qualified". WTF?? I guess I get it, but still... pbbbt to them! Anyway, I know I need to get financially dependent but am working out the logistics of school hours.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't know what your skillset is. But for the 3 years that I was a SAHM (sort of) I found a company that let me work in the office while my son was at school. Then I'd work at home, or in the park or wherever when he was out of school. I just had the core hours at the office and could schedule the rest of my time when I wanted.

I did business and computer consulting.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

My background consists primarily of accounting and management. Management is kind of out of the picture but I may be able to find a bookkeeping gig to work. That can mostly be done anywhere I can spread papers. The problem being that while I have experience, I do not have my degree. I was darn close to it, but never finished due to family responsibilities. *Sigh* Maybe I can look into returning to school part time and finishing my degree first. That would keep me busy at least.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyHappyPlace said:


> My background consists primarily of accounting and management. Management is kind of out of the picture but I may be able to find a bookkeeping gig to work. That can mostly be done anywhere I can spread papers. The problem being that while I have experience, I do not have my degree. I was darn close to it, but never finished due to family responsibilities. *Sigh* Maybe I can look into returning to school part time and finishing my degree first. That would keep me busy at least.


That's a very good plan. 

Even if you go to a regular college/university, many of them have at least some on-line classes. So you could take some classes that way, making it easier to do while your children are home.


IF you wanted to you could pick up some bookkeeping for small businesses on the side as well. Purchase a smaller professional package.. some would even be ok with our using Quicken for businesses.

You could advertise on craigslist in the services section. I've hired quite a view people for different kinds of services from that section. I've never had a problem.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

First I want to say thank you for the support and advice. I have been looking into finding a part time gig (going for an interview tomorrow!) but have also been doing a lot of thinking. And my H has made a few changes that may seem insignificant to some, but meant a lot to me. Not just because of what he did, but because it means he has been hearing me and is at least trying. 
First, he initiated twice this week and was very attentive to making sure I finished, something I don't often do. I know that sounds shallow, but because he does not ever verbalize that he finds me attractive, his initiation of sexual encounters is about the only way I feel desirable. 
Second, he has been more involved with the children. He's been taking them to the store with him, giving baths, overseeing bed time routines. This morning he got up and went with me to take the baby to school. Took a nap at the hotel and got up in time to go get her from school with me also. 
Third, after he laid down without saying goodnight or giving me a kiss yesterday, I mentioned that I don't feel we kiss very often and asked him if that bothered him. He said he doesn't think that is true so no, it doesn't bother him. But, when I was trying to walk past him last night, he grabbed me around the waist, pulled me into a hug, and kissed me. 
Today we held hands everywhere we went. I was surprised to find that I had sub-consciously put my hand on his thigh while driving. I used to ALWAYS reach across to put my hand on his leg while he was driving and it hadn't occurred to me that I had stopped doing so until I realized I was doing it today.
So we may not communicate our emotions very well verbally, but that is something we can work on. Until then, these small gestures mean the world to me. Again, not only are they appreciated for what they are, but because it means we are both recognizing the dysfunction in our relationship and are willing to try to fix them.

Through TAM I have come to realize that I am as at much fault as I felt he was. When I let my self-worth drop, I blamed him and stopped doing my part. My depression is not his fault and I need to stop looking for little things to nit-pick at until he becomes so frustrated with me that he validates my self-disapproval.
It will not happen overnight, but in the past few days, we have shown each other that we are willing to work through this and not just listen, but hear what the other person is saying. (I have made sure the bed is made every time he wants to lay down. Until the other night, I had no clue that this was an issue for him.)


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MyHappyPlace said:


> First I want to say thank you for the support and advice. I have been looking into finding a part time gig (going for an interview tomorrow!) but have also been doing a lot of thinking. And my H has made a few changes that may seem insignificant to some, but meant a lot to me. Not just because of what he did, but because it means he has been hearing me and is at least trying.
> 
> First, he initiated twice this week and was very attentive to making sure I finished, something I don't often do. I know that sounds shallow, but because he does not ever verbalize that he finds me attractive, his initiation of sexual encounters is about the only way I feel desirable.
> 
> ...


This is all good.

You have come a long way with the realizations about yourself.

Hopefully this all these changes with both of you will move things in the right direction.

You getting a part-time gig will help too. It could give you a feeling of stability that makes you stronger in dealing with your marriage.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

So I asked him what he thinks about me going back to school. He's okay with it, but did say that right now probably isn't the best timing. I fully agreed and suggested we talk about it again after we get settled back into our home. So I'm aiming for spring semester next year at the community college. Thinking maybe just a simple caretaker certificate to work with the elderly. I like old folks and it isn't an environment where he would have much concern or jealousy... win/win for us both. 

We haven't had intercourse in over a week and I'm strangely okay with this. There have been so many other moments of closeness that I haven't been sex-craved. Today was our anniversary so I was kind of hoping for something, but oh well... I was content to curl up on his chest to watch a movie, even if he did fall asleep 20 minutes into it. 

I'm not going to say everything has been peaches and cream. There have been moments of frustration but I go vent to my parents and then get over them. With my new perspective and I think the new found will to fight for us, things are getting a bit easier. I think he's been trying harder too. Or maybe he always was, but I was so angry I couldn't see it. 

I've noticed that about myself, once I get ticked about something and let it fester long enough without resolution, NOTHING he can do is "right". Shame on me! But I think I will be able to overcome this now that it has come to my attention. So the last few days, when I get upset or depressed about a situation, I force myself to find at least 2-3 positives about him that make me smile. Then the disappointment about whatever seems to lessen and lose toxicity. 

I share all this because if I hadn't found TAM, I think my marriage would be permanently over by now. Maybe somebody will stumble across this thread one day and get something from the feedback I have been provided by other members and maybe even from some of the self-realizations I have come to myself. I'm glad I never gave up.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Stick around. 
Whether your marriage survives or not, some of us are wired different and actually like to see the person go up the other side in the valley in their lives. Whether that is D or not... Go go college, better yourself etc.

Update on occasion.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I hope you find some resolution and peace in this situation.

Pursuing your something for yourself that will give you some independence and a way for you to support yourself if needed it important. So I'm glad you will do this.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Grrr. Does this vicious cycle ever end? We have a huge fight, things get better. To the point of even being great! We grow complacent. Then one day I wake up realizing we are back where we started and I'm growing angry and resentful again. I'll let it build for a few months and then we fight again. Which, btw, is what I'm trying to avoid this time. I can't bring it up to him face to face because I assume based on past experiences that he will get mean and/or play the martyr. I've tried in the past writing him letters or emails thinking we could communicate without being in each others' faces, but he never responds. I just don't understand why that few weeks of total bliss can't continue. Why we both keep falling back to old ways. I mean, I know what excuses I come up with, but their validity is questionable. I feel like he drops the ball on meeting my needs, so I stop being the housekeeper he wants/needs me to be. Why would I want to keep doing for him if it's never appreciated. Well, it may be appreciated, but he certainly doesn't express that in a way I understand.

I keep thinking that things will get better when we get home. But I just don't know. Some crap was going on at the house last week and he was so incredibly passive about it that I was shocked! I actually wondered if I could ever look at my H with any measure of respect again. I decided that if I never had to see it again, I could probably get over it. So as long as we never lose our house to a disaster and have crappy work being done, I can overlook it for the time being. But am I being delusional? Will this just creep up months from now and leave me questioning how my husband turned into such a pansy a$$? Oops, guess I'm not really over it as much as I thought. 
I hate this. I just want to be happy more often than not. Is that too much to ask? Or am I way off base and unrealistic about what real life is really like? Maybe I built some fairytale life in my head and now have expectations that are ridiculously higher than a "normal" relationship provides. I am pretty sure that I would benefit from mass amounts of counseling but at $60-$100 a session, it's so far out of budget it's beyond laughable. Lame.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What I'm seeing is that the two of you have an emotional cycle. It sounds a lot like the "cycle of abuse". Look up that term and do a lot of reading on it. I'm not saying that either of you is abusive but instead that there is a similar emotional cycle going on.

In this type of emotional cycle, things go along just fine for a while. But over time it builds and builds until there is a lot of anger, resentment, etc built up. 

In the case of an abuser, they will become abusive. This 'blowing their top' releases all the anger, tension, etc. It also releases tons of chemicals into the brain that make the abuser feel better. Then the abuser gets nice, does all kinds of apologizing and over time the anger and frustration buids up again.

In your case it’s a bit more subtle but it sounds like the same type of thing. And it sound like both of you might be caught up in your own cycles.

How do you stop this kind of cycle? You learn to identify your own triggers like you just did. You notice that you are in a very negative part of the cycle. Start to check yourself daily for this. As soon as you feel this coming on, do something to bring yourself out of this state of mind. Things that often work are exercise, journaling, relaxing activities, deep breathing.

Now your husband seems to have his won cycle. The way you handle that is that you refuse to get into any argument with him. It’s his job to handle his own bad attitudes. 

When you do things like stop doing the house work, etc. You are only playing into his bad cycle. You are letting him control your mood. Stop doing that. His bad moods are his. You forge ahead in your life, do what you need to do. 

Then you only interact with him when he’s positive mood. Just flat out tell him that you love him and will be glad to talk to him when he’s willing to do it in a calm, respectful manner.


----------



## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

I think the cycle of abuse is spot on. It just comes out as verbal abuse instead of physical abuse. You are absolutely right about not playing into his cycle. Though this may be easier said than done. However, I've called on some serious strength and resolve in myself to get past other things, I know I've got it in me to find it for this too. 
I do find it so helpful to be able to come here and vent about things because I get feedback in the form of insight and advice. When I would vent to my family, I realized I wasn't getting anything positive out of it. I was basically just disrespecting my H and was being agreed with. That was only enforcing my negativity and bad attitude. Here I can vent, which makes me feel better anyway, and I get such positive communication back that it gives me a will to fight it out and look for the shining light. Both within my H and myself. 
I know he's a good guy and that I am terribly difficult to get along with at times. So I need to give him the respect he deserves and the kudos for putting up with my crap for all this time.


----------

