# What are the typical red flags of a serial cheater?



## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

What are the typical red flags of a serial cheater?

What behavioral patterns do they exhibit too?

What does it mean exactly "sexual gratification" and what would it say about someones character?

Need as much detail as possible here, I get the phone thing but he can't see the woods for the trees sort of thing and I really don't know what to look out for.

Thanks in advance.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Forgot to ask but this logger thing for the computer, how do I find one that can be put on her computer without her knowing and will it be affected by any anti virus or other cleaner things already on the computer, sorry but not my problem and I have no idea where to start exactly.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

mobile phone has become another body part. 
They sleep with it 
go to the toilet with it 
(my stbxw) even took with her when she went out running for her exercise 

sex with you becomes either much better or non existent
it doesn't stay the same once their attention are all over the om/ow

friends - the toxic ones who support the adulteries - who are in the 'loop' as it were can't help but be embarrassed around you.
Next time you're in her friends company have a good look at them - you'll soon find out.

"gratification" probably being satisfied by someone else - more exciting and 'better' than from you 

There are it threads on her about technology VARs and loggers etc etc but that's an Infidelity Starter pack (an ISP!) to get you up and going !

Good luck

ps how could I forget 

YOUR GUT - trust it - it's hardly ever wrong


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The serial cheater is really someone who doesn't see faithfulness as a given, ever, and never has. This sort of person has been hiding illicit hookups and affairs his/her whole adult life and thinks that staying faithful is 1) unnatural and 2) expected by society, so that cheating and hiding it are engrained in his/her lifestyle. The serial cheater often sees the spouse as the real and only love, and thus falls apart when the BS gets tough and says that the cheating is a dealbreaker. This sort of consequence takes the control away from the serial cheater and throws him/her off balance - the cheater was used to controlling what the BS knew and without the control, the whole cheating mindset falls in on itself.

What this means, unfortunately, is that a true serial cheater is often very hard to catch. These people actually love their spouses in their own twisted ways and don't want divorce, so this is a huge incentive to succeed in their secrecy. They are often not at all emotionally tied to their AP's and find it easy to cut off their A's if the BS gets suspicious. They have very well-honed strategies for cheating - they know how to effectively cover everything up (secret phone/e-mail accounts, well-hidden burner phones, secret CC's, never using home computers for AP contact, etc.) They lie very convincingly because they've been doing it for so long.

There are many stories here where it turns out that a serial cheater has been at it for decades and the spouse, family and friends had absolutely no clue.

In my opinion, a poly or PI is the best bet at catching someone like this.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> The serial cheater is really someone who doesn't see faithfulness as a given, ever, and never has. This sort of person has been hiding illicit hookups and affairs his/her whole adult life and thinks that staying faithful is 1) unnatural and 2) expected by society, so that cheating and hiding it are engrained in his/her lifestyle. The serial cheater often sees the spouse as the real and only love, and thus falls apart when the BS gets tough and says that the cheating is a dealbreaker. This sort of consequence takes the control away from the serial cheater and throws him/her off balance - the cheater was used to controlling what the BS knew and without the control, the whole cheating mindset falls in on itself.
> 
> What this means, unfortunately, is that a true serial cheater is often very hard to catch. These people actually love their spouses in their own twisted ways and don't want divorce, so this is a huge incentive to succeed in their secrecy. They are often not at all emotionally tied to their AP's and find it easy to cut off their A's if the BS gets suspicious. They have very well-honed strategies for cheating - they know how to effectively cover everything up (secret phone/e-mail accounts, well-hidden burner phones, secret CC's, never using home computers for AP contact, etc.) They lie very convincingly because they've been doing it for so long.
> 
> ...


Good points alte but they do get complacent start to get overconfident and make mistakes.

One I lived with before this last one was just incredible at it - she worked on the basis of doing it right under your nose. You'd think naaa not him that's too obvious ..guess what :scratchhead:


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> What this means, unfortunately, is that a true serial cheater is often very hard to catch. *These people actually love their spouses in their own twisted ways* and don't want divorce, so this is a huge incentive to succeed in their secrecy. They are often not at all emotionally tied to their AP's and find it easy to cut off their A's if the BS gets suspicious. They have very well-honed strategies for cheating - they know how to effectively cover everything up (secret phone/e-mail accounts, well-hidden burner phones, secret CC's, never using home computers for AP contact, etc.) They lie very convincingly because they've been doing it for so long.
> 
> There are many stories here where it turns out that a serial cheater has been at it for decades and the spouse, family and friends had absolutely no clue.


My stbx serial cheater of 22 years put a huge tattoo of my name on his arm. Seems an odd thing to do, but probably served a purpose to prove his "commitment" earlier in the marriage since he refused to wear a wedding ring.  He had a secret life aside from me and I never knew it. Mine actually did want divorce. I was an inconvenience. He needed my side of the bed for his ONSs and the brand new huge house to become a bachelor pad to impress "f^ck buddies" as I hear that is what he calls them. I guess the compact car was too cramped for his fat gut and a hotel was too expensive. To accomplish this, he had to make me homeless. How is that for "love"? Love my @ss. A serial cheater doesn't love. They rent your time and play house.

Master liar. Master manipulator. True narcissist. 

If you are around one long enough, the sure sign of a serial cheater is they have EXTREMELY low self esteem. They are constantly craving validation and use sex to get attention because they know they aren't really much outside of that.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I stand corrected, SiW. They *believe/insist/swear* they love their spouses. I, too, don't know how this can be love.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Holy cow, what am I doing trying to open Pandora's Box or something? :scratchhead:

I am sort of understanding things a lot more now.

Although I am actually wishing I wasn't 

Help I will but now I have so much to go through I will have to sit back and devise a strategy so I can work out what has been going on and if there really is still something for him to be worried about.

Where is the best starting place? I cant do phone records as she has a PAYG phone so no bills attached 

That just leaves me with computers and actually seeing for myself as I have sort of volunteered my help as a spy when she "goes out".

If anyone else has more to add then please post here.

Forgot to add, how does it work with those types? Are they just looking for a lay? Can they not see past the sexual innuendos of other men and have sex with them because they want to hold the attention? Are they the types to have sex with just about anyone, just about anywhere whether it was in the work place or in the back of some guys car? And are they always trying to guard their relationship with constant deception of their past activities?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Are you asking about a CHEATER or a SERIAL cheater?

A serial cheater, someone who pathologically cheats, would be very difficult to catch. They'd have to be doing it without any hit to their conscious. You would probably need some sort of phone tracking or GPS in car or something.

A regular cheater will have to justify it in their own mind so their behavior will change. That is much easier to spot when you know what to look for.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

COguy said:


> A serial cheater, someone who pathologically cheats, would be very difficult to catch. They'd have to be doing it without any hit to their conscious. You would probably need some sort of phone tracking or GPS in car or something.
> 
> A regular cheater will have to justify it in their own mind so their behavior will change. That is much easier to spot when you know what to look for.


Agree.

A family member was a serial cheater for 14 years and his wife had NO idea. He had this completely separate life and was able to compartmentalize it well. He got caught when he gave his wife an STD and even then she was in disbelief. Did some snooping and caught him. He confessed everything and they are now divorced.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There are some threads here by serial cheaters who try to describe how they think. Here's one poster:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...al-cheater-narcissist-change-his-stripes.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/58595-cheaters-going-cheat-unless.html


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

My wife serially cheated on me for years with PA before being caught her. She admitted 3 OM, could of been more. 

Red Flags? Nothing really any different than any other LTA.

The main difference is the ability to compartmentalize and live a double life. My wife could teach Sunday School, sit in church next to me, hold my hand with a smile on her face, less than 24 from scr-wing some other man in a hotel room. 

I asked her how she could skip work and drive to a hotel and F another man all day long, come home in the afternoon fix dinner and act like nothing happened at all. 

She said that was another person and she just put it away in a little box and didn't think about it.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Mine was her sexual past held keys. She lied about it. There were hints given, ones I should have paid attention to. She didn’t need to be in a relationship to have sex... FWB sort of stuff. A very casual perspective of sex and it’s meaning to her. *Sex was a commodity.*

The price for sex varied depending on relationship and what she was ‘expecting’ from it. A you can imagine, a husband she had a lot of expectations for. Sex cost a lot and had a massive checklist for that “satisfaction with his role as a husband” before sex was a reward. But a hot guy who made her laugh, told her she was beautiful and bought her drinks? Well, that’s what she expected out of him and that conditional relationship, so sex was a reward for satisfying her expectations. Ditto for a co-worker who showered praise on her for how well she did her job and handled things. If she got what she was looking for out of her relationship to you, she’d feel ‘obligated’ to reward you... and guys value sexual favors. So that was sometimes used.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jules1990 said:


> Holy cow, what am I doing trying to open Pandora's Box or something? :scratchhead:
> 
> I am sort of understanding things a lot more now.
> 
> ...


A VAR hidden in the car is one of the easiest things to do. Most people who cheat talk to their AP on their cell in the car. Use Velcro and put it under the front seat. The Velcro is so that it does not slide out when the brakes are put on. The BS needs to be the one who does this because of laws. Check your state laws for recording conversations.


Also... check the trash in the house and the car she drives. Some cheaters are sloppy and leave all kinds of evidence in those places.


Another easy thing is a GPS device that attaches to the car. This way you can monitor where she's going and can check it out. You can also drive there, see where she is and get photos.

A wig or scarf to cover your hair, sun glasses, diff clothing, diff car help out if you are going to drive there. Hey if you are going to do the spy thing, do it well.

If you do get info of infidelity, do not reveal it quickly. Decide beforehand how it will be handled. What is the right time to confront. How much evidence is needed to prove the there is infidelity so that she cannot lie her way out of it.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Racer said:


> ... her sexual past held keys. She lied about it. There were hints given, ones I should have paid attention to. She didn’t need to be in a relationship to have sex... FWB sort of stuff. A very casual perspective of sex and it’s meaning to her. *Sex was a commodity.*
> 
> *The price for sex varied depending on relationship and what she was ‘expecting’ from it.*


I too totally missed this about my wife when we first met. I remember one time asking her about her past... She looked at me and said it's hard to turn down a boy you like and has been nice to you. The long term implications went by me like freight train.

As MORI said on here a long time ago... _"Sex is the currency of the affair."_

In my wife's case, she wanted the secret attention, the hidden emails, the comments on her beauty. She knew that sex was the price to continue the affair (attention). Serially cheating fed the addiction.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

They out a lot and can't explain where they been. Especially if they are gone all night, every weekend, after work, ect... They may blame you for cheating, call you crazy, blame shift, gaslight, ect.. Also when going out they look their best or change their behavior. These are just some of the things that happened to me.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

Never puts a "." to anything. No topic, situation, conversation, expectation is ever responded to in a way that they close the door. My serial cheating wife had agreed that when out in public it would only be one alcholic drink per day. The very next day she goes out to lunch and mentions how she had a "beer and a half". I said to her that we agreed just yesterday it was to be only one beer no "halves". She just stared at me. I then realized she could not keep any agreements.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

The intelligence gathering thread is very cool:smthumbup:

Right not had time to go through everything in the thread but have been thinking about the phone thing and it was bugging me, then up pops "phone spyware", now not sure how hard it will be to actually get the phone but what can I do to get spyware on/for it?

She has a Samsung GALAXY Y S5360, is t possible to get spyware for this phone? she has had it a while so I'm told so if not possible for this phone what would be the best phone and spyware combination to be arranged and put in place so as to get into the whole phone thing with no bills to monitor?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

you can install a "where's my droid" app type thing and just get the location info from that. There's even an option to auto-delete the activation message when you send it.

So for example, you text her "WMD location" and it and emails you a current GPS location. And she never sees the message.

But it's much easier to hide if you put a GPS tracker and VAR in her car.

Honestly, if you have a suspicion, you're probably right.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

She does not drive, probably should have mentioned that bit, but the suspicion is based around inappropriate contacts/content, hence wanting to be able to see full content of messaging and apps used, I think the computer is about to become secure in the sense that everything can now be monitored so that just leaves the phone, the trouble with not putting anything on the phone is that it has usual GPRS data and wi-fi, so therefore concern is that although the computer may come up clean the phone can do the internet from anywhere within range of the router and being used in secrecy could mean she is up to no good in any part of the property just not using the computer and I dare say that she has in the past been so bold as to do it when in bed next to him(why the hell he stayed with her just based on this snippet I cannot figure out:scratchhead

So anything for the samsung galaxy y or should I be looking to get her upgraded for intel gathering?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

my experience after living with one for years...
1) think rules are made for other people.
2) when there are rules, they twist them into their way of thinking.
for example, when a situation required commitment, she would point to my lack of commitment but when confronted on her lack of commitment, she'd say "oh, that's old fashioned thinking"


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Still stuck on the phone issue but tonight's check of the computer revealed nothing unusual so time will tell, she has an aerobics class tomorrow at 7 and I am going to try to follow her around.

Great vacation, sort of like a 007 theme week, shame it has real impacts on life if I make any discoveries.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Day #2.

All clean, everything checked out, aerobics and computer, the phone is being handled differently and she is getting one that does nothing more than phone and text, and this has come from an honest conversation with her about the phone and she has agreed that in order to build trust she will make this sacrifice.

I am a little confused by this at the moment, but if I go on what I am told then there is always the possibility that once the phone is out of the equation then the computer surveillance will catch anything that happens on the net.

Will keep posting on how it goes.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

jules1990 said:


> She does not drive, probably should have mentioned that bit, but the suspicion is based around inappropriate contacts/content, hence wanting to be able to see full content of messaging and apps used, I think the computer is about to become secure in the sense that everything can now be monitored so that just leaves the phone, the trouble with not putting anything on the phone is that it has usual GPRS data and wi-fi, so therefore concern is that although the computer may come up clean the phone can do the internet from anywhere within range of the router and being used in secrecy could mean she is up to no good in any part of the property just not using the computer and* I dare say that she has in the past been so bold as to do it when in bed next to him(why the hell he stayed with her *just based on this snippet I cannot figure out:scratchhead
> 
> So anything for the samsung galaxy y or should I be looking to get her upgraded for intel gathering?


You are spying on someone else's wife? This isn't your relationship you are concerned about?

You could get into legal trouble if caught.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

I care because family matters to me, yes there could be legal repercussions but I am more worried for my brother than the law, he has too much invested with the house and businesses to just walk away and he needs this help to try to settle his fears, IC is helping him but the calm of the river could reveal more hidden in it's depths.

Thanks for your concern though.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Dressed at 7am like she was going out at night.
Unexpected calls on her iphone and then sudden hangup
Zero f**king - or the odd one to keep you interested.
All the other sh!t - blame shifting etc

Also, some more bizarre recent behavior where statements are made or things implied but not backed up - sex mainly.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Day #3

Nothing on the computer again and she has the new phone and is seemingly happy to do as he is asking at the moment.

I will add that there seems to be nothing but good signs so far.

What next?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Your friends wife may know her husband is onto her and is playing it cool.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Here is an interesting thing about my stbxh. Even after 22 years of marriage he would NEVER tell me how many women he had sex with, not even lie with a ballpark figure......and he lies about _everything_. ETA: I was talking about number of women BEFORE me.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

I have been chatting with my brother and now know exactly what his problem and suspicions are, and it all stems from a period of around 2 yrs prior to him finding out about her online lover.

They had moved into a new place and things seemed ok but lacking in the sex department, and he said the only time she would seem "up for it" was if she had been on the internet that night, supposedly playing games or watching tv shows, then she was getting one afternoon off in the week as the company was trying to reduce staff hours and again this was another day of the week she was a more willing bed mate, they decided to move and rented a place in between the places they both worked to even out the travelling and because it was a much cheaper apartment allowing them to save some money for a deposit on their own house that would become their business premises too, and no internet there and sex went off the boil and became infrequent and with no real quality to it, then money saved and deposits paid, moved into new house started the business and within two weeks of having internet he came back from a delivery and as he put it, "she was wet and ready to go", he said being suspicious after such a lousy year of infrequent and poor sex he checked the computer and found messages being exchanged between her and an ex from high school days, and yes I have read the messages, she said she was going to move back to her home town and he wanted her and one thing struck me and that is that it was her who instigated the sex talk and encouraged him, their contact lasted 4days until my brother cut them off, forbid any social media sites and he says she shows remorse but he has out right asked her about anything internet related from the past and she denies anything before that and claims this guy as the one and only time she did anything like that, sorry if it seems sketchy but trying to remember exactly what he said.

Sorry but I understand where he is coming from now and the rather obscure 2yrs sexual activities with and without the internet in the back ground does make me suspicious too!!!

Time will tell if she is still up to her old ways with current technology in place, but I think as suggested to others that a polygraph would be his only way to get closure on his doubts as she will not openly admit anything, and I suppose that is what makes me believe serial cheater.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sounds like your brother has a tough decision to make. He could get her into some ic and that might help who knows.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Bingo!!!!

I saw some pictures of my brother and his GF on his camera and asked if they could email them to me so I could save them as I have next to no recent pictures of him and upon paying close attention to the email I saw it was sent from an ipad, now there has never been any mention of an ipad before!!!

Gotta ask some difficult questions but this might get ugly, is there anyway to locate an ipad in the house if it is hidden?


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Nothing but dead ends here with snooping and playing the spy, thought it would be easy but if there is anything to hide I should have found it by now, the ipad was a dead end, it belongs to my brother, he had just bought it to help him sort out his work agenda and to make things easier with work.

could be a waiting game I suppose? :scratchhead: Although how long it would be before there was a slip is any ones guess, not sure I want to keep spending my time checking only to find nothing every time I do


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you think she is using the internet and using you brother to finish herself off, you need to get some vars and hidden camera in the house where she is likely to be sexting or calling. 

If she doesn't drive, how does she get around?


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> If you think she is using the internet and using you brother to finish herself off, you need to get some vars and hidden camera in the house where she is likely to be sexting or calling.
> 
> If she doesn't drive, how does she get around?


I have the keylogger on her laptop she down graded the phone and all come up squeaky clean, my brother has literally just taken out a new cell contract and she will have fully itemized billing and a new phone, probably not a smart phone with apps etc, but better than the basic one now.

She had a minibus service from the factory she works at that picks up and drops off at your door, and she has a bicycle for local grocery run etc,.

So far examining and searching is revealing absolutely nothing at all.


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## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

1 gym membership

2 phone because glued to Her. Seriously. Never left that palm. 

3 phone got a passcode put on it. 

4 Girls night outs started. Like 2 or 3 times a week. 

5 worked late. When she worked that is. 

6 sex was different. Did different things. Nothing huge, but the little things this will catch a mans attention. She would reach back and spread Her cheeks, that one to this day haunts me and I don't know why, as I have no proof. Stupid stuff like that. 

7 talked about going out if town to visit her parents. Alone. 

8 didn't want me to meet her friends. She never came out and said it. But I was never able to go alone on a GNO. never met these people she talked about. Because they all knew. 

9 finally, you will gain access to something. Email, phone, Facebook. It will make you want to kill yourself, BUT.....not until you find out all if it. It is a weird crappy freaky feeling to need to know all, even though every word destroys you more and more. 

10 when you do confront, you find out that YOU were the reason she only "talked" to him. Or only "sent pictures" to him. It was your actions. Complete denial of any blame will fall in their lap. 

11. They will continue to lie, and try to hide things from you, even of they know, as mine knew me, I don't ask questions I don't know the answer to. 

Hindsight is a B I O T C H especially after you have kids.


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## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

Not sure how me using" : " my phone decided to use smiley faces. Please ignore those. There was no smiles with that post.


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

A very wierd explaination of whereabouts made me check the keylogger, and there it is bold as brass plenty of fish profile, I have everything to log in and have user ID and passcode.

She has been chatting to some guy who lives a half hour away, nothing explicit but reading the messages I know where this is going, he wants to meet tomorrow, need advice on what to do as don't want to tell my brother without full proof or you know it turns to gaslighting!!

What now?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Do they say where they are meeting?


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## jen53 (Apr 26, 2013)

finally, you will gain access to something. Email, phone, Facebook. It will make you want to kill yourself, BUT.....not until you find out all if it. It is a weird crappy freaky feeling to need to know all, even though every word destroys you more and more. 

10 when you do confront, you find out that YOU were the reason she only "talked" to him. Or only "sent pictures" to him. It was your actions. Complete denial of any blame will fall in their lap. 

11. They will continue to lie, and try to hide things from you, even of they know, as mine knew me, I don't ask questions I don't know the answer to. 

Hindsight is a B I O T C H especially after you have kids. 



I know these are so true  I had evidence of one episode, yet was sworn to that it hadn't happened, someone was stirring, and to close my account online as me being PC was the cause of my mistrust .hah, I have stopped(so hard as it becomes an addiction in itself)snooping as it tears you apart when you open that page to see something - its like you need to know everything, yet it is impossible so you keep on and on


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Take screenshots in case she deletes the stuff later.

Can you find out where they're meeting?


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

They didn't meet yet, she blew him out as I "c0ck blocked"(I think that is the right expression?) them by arranging a dinner on the spur of the moment.

I have saved everything on two USB flash drives, there are complete chat logs and the secret email of which I have mailed everything to myself from that account.

I will say it went slowly for the first week her logging in every couple of days but she seemed to slip into the comfort zone and seems to log in a few times a day, things got rather disgustingly interesting the last couple of days as she is now flashing on cam to the guy she was going to meet and even masturbated on cam for him too, but at 10:30 last night with some new guy it was getting heated too, as she was exposing herself on cam to him, these images are also on the flash drive.

Where do I take this now? I am feeling physically sick and very much out of my depth. I don't want this to go any further but also don't want her to be able to blow it off with "it was just kicks on the internet as you weren't home" crap that I know will come and I think my brother would let her stay as there was no meeting and nothing physical happened.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

jules1990 said:


> They didn't meet yet, she blew him out as I "c0ck blocked"(I think that is the right expression?) them by arranging a dinner on the spur of the moment.
> 
> I have saved everything on two USB flash drives, there are complete chat logs and the secret email of which I have mailed everything to myself from that account.
> 
> ...


Why are you watching her do all these things, but not telling your brother about it?


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

Scared I guess.

I thought it would be easy but I really don't know, I'm scared that this will all blow up and I just look like a fool as she got away with it when he caught her before, what is to say that he won't say the same thing again, "it was only on the internet, she never actually had sex with him".

I am so out of my depth!


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

I am going to tell my brother everything so far so he can decide what to do from here.

I had such a stupid naive notion I could handle this but I really can't.


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## mamabear131617 (Oct 5, 2013)

jen53 said:


> finally, you will gain access to something. Email, phone, Facebook. It will make you want to kill yourself, BUT.....not until you find out all if it. It is a weird crappy freaky feeling to need to know all, even though every word destroys you more and more.
> 
> 10 when you do confront, you find out that YOU were the reason she only "talked" to him. Or only "sent pictures" to him. It was your actions. Complete denial of any blame will fall in their lap.
> 
> ...


I know that feeling too well. My situation was exactly the same. I only had one piece of the puzzle. He wouldn't admit to anything else.


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## mamabear131617 (Oct 5, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> The serial cheater is really someone who doesn't see faithfulness as a given, ever, and never has. This sort of person has been hiding illicit hookups and affairs his/her whole adult life and thinks that staying faithful is 1) unnatural and 2) expected by society, so that cheating and hiding it are engrained in his/her lifestyle. The serial cheater often sees the spouse as the real and only love, and thus falls apart when the BS gets tough and says that the cheating is a dealbreaker. This sort of consequence takes the control away from the serial cheater and throws him/her off balance - the cheater was used to controlling what the BS knew and without the control, the whole cheating mindset falls in on itself.
> 
> What this means, unfortunately, is that a true serial cheater is often very hard to catch. These people actually love their spouses in their own twisted ways and don't want divorce, so this is a huge incentive to succeed in their secrecy. They are often not at all emotionally tied to their AP's and find it easy to cut off their A's if the BS gets suspicious. They have very well-honed strategies for cheating - they know how to effectively cover everything up (secret phone/e-mail accounts, well-hidden burner phones, secret CC's, never using home computers for AP contact, etc.) They lie very convincingly because they've been doing it for so long.
> 
> ...


I have no actual proof of more than two EAs but my gut tells me this was my husband in a nutshell.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

jules1990 said:


> Where is the best starting place? I cant do phone records as she has a PAYG phone so no bills attached


What company? What type? There are ways to monitor most newer phones and pay as you go doesn't matter.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

It's your brothers job to make the decision, not yours. If he's dumb enough to keep her around after that, then it's his problem to deal with.

Your job is to share the information you have, and love your brother as his world falls apart.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

alte Dame said:


> The serial cheater is really someone who doesn't see faithfulness as a given, ever, and never has. This sort of person has been hiding illicit hookups and affairs his/her whole adult life and thinks that staying faithful is 1) unnatural and 2) expected by society, so that cheating and hiding it are engrained in his/her lifestyle. The serial cheater often sees the spouse as the real and only love, and thus falls apart when the BS gets tough and says that the cheating is a dealbreaker. This sort of consequence takes the control away from the serial cheater and throws him/her off balance - the cheater was used to controlling what the BS knew and without the control, the whole cheating mindset falls in on itself.
> 
> What this means, unfortunately, is that a true serial cheater is often very hard to catch. These people actually love their spouses in their own twisted ways and don't want divorce, so this is a huge incentive to succeed in their secrecy. They are often not at all emotionally tied to their AP's and find it easy to cut off their A's if the BS gets suspicious. They have very well-honed strategies for cheating - they know how to effectively cover everything up (secret phone/e-mail accounts, well-hidden burner phones, secret CC's, never using home computers for AP contact, etc.) They lie very convincingly because they've been doing it for so long.
> 
> There are many stories here where it turns out that a serial cheater has been at it for decades and the spouse, family and friends had absolutely no clue.In my opinion, a poly or PI is the best bet at catching someone like this


I agree 100% early onset serial cheaters have no sudden changes in behavior, so it is very hard to see anything out of the ordinary because there is nothing out of the ordinary.

My wife's best friends husband was like this. Always a avid hunter/fisherman he was just going fishing or hunting every 4-6 weeks, but he really was seeing prostitutes all over. Secret CC accounts, throwaway phones, checked in constantly, you never would have known. Looked and acted like any country boy from the south would give you the shirt off his back!

His wife never had a clue! He was finally caught because he strayed from escorts and started seeing a woman about 2hrs away. She ended up trying to surprise him at his house where she ended up being equally surprised he had a wife and kids. When he came home both the wife and the AP were there talking and he spilled the beans. She found his address using his boat trailer license plate! 


I remember talking to him during the divorce he said "I've got some demons man always had em. They cost me big this time!" I asked him how long he had been battling this? he said "Forever man, I've been doing this forever!"


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## jules1990 (Jun 13, 2013)

My weight is off my shoulders now and I am happy to say that although my Brother was initially shell shocked that she was at it again, deep down he knew that she would do something when the heat was off.

He explained why he asked me to snoop too, and it is because he knew that while she saw him actively snooping and checking up the risk was too high of getting caught, so by asking me to be his PI he got to keep his sanity and could stop tying himself up in knots over it and this would also give her the impression that the waters were now calm and that she could go back to her ways, as he put it, "I want to know sooner rather than later if she is going to start that crap again", and now he does.

It has taken a few days to get everything in order with banks and stuff but it ended very briefly with all her stuff being taken to her parents house and full exposure to them, the door locks have all been changed and a small holdall with a few bits left on the porch with a note on the top for her to find, it simply read "plenty of fish, I hope you enjoyed fishing, I know everything and would like you out of my life for good". He contacted the sherifs office too as to make them aware that there could be issues in the future and that he is the home owner etc, and that any claims made otherwise are unsubstantiated, good call I think but you never know what is to come over the following days/weeks.

My brother is staying with us for a few days and had started IC, so far this is all we can do, support him.

His suspicions were right and she was lulled into a false sense of security when she thought he was no longer snooping, I really don't understand her, but I am not that kind of girl.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice and support, I am so glad that it is all over now.


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