# Contacting Ex. Possible aid in recovery or simply a sweet poison.



## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey everyone.

I wanted to get something off my chest tonight. Something I've been putting off for a long time. If you want to know more about my background, you can find my thread entitles "Wife is having an emotional breakdown"
Since the dissolution, it's like a huge weight has been lifted and I feel most the anger and resentment have faded away. Most of the time, we talk like old friends. I know she treated me poorly in the past, but since our Dissolution, she's returnd to her friendly, cheerful self with her weird, witty sense of humor and sweet charm that made me fall in love with her in the first place. 

IF she were still a b!tch, I think this would be much easier.

They come and go and my brain tends to flip back and forth between 2 modes.

*Mode A*: Feeling like the dissolution was a mistake. Wishing I had stayed in the marriage longer to see if she would come around. Missing the travel and good times we had together. Feeling like I won't find someone else I'm attracted to or whom I will feel the same about. It's an emotional tension that accumulates until I switch to Mode B.
*Mode B*: Realizing it's absolutely over and I need to move on. Imagining a better life with a better woman. Even still, in this mode I feel a bit regretful that things didn't work out.

Mode A mostly occurs when I haven't heard from her in awhile and I reminiscence about the good ole days and think about things we used to do together (particularly traveling) or when I hear someone with a Filipino accent. Somehow, when I talk to her or hang out with her (we did have an evening out once since the divorce) it sometimes alleviates my "emotional" distress of Mode A, and switches me to Mode B. 


Don't get my wrong, I still have some feelings of attraction to her that come and go, including when we hang out or talk on the phone. Typically our discussions will revolve around current events in our respective lives or we'll discuss the regrets we had while going through the separation process. I'll be happy to discuss these interactions in more detail when I have time.

So, I'm a bit confused. I know many people tell me you can't be friends after Divorce. But sometimes I feel like it's helping me get over things. Is this normal or am I just an unusual individual here?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I just went through all 43 pages...

Nothing wrong will feeling sad about the failure of a relationship, but honestly, what I read made it clear that your ex came into your life as a lesson, never forget what it taught you ...you know the outcome if you choose Mode A, you will relive it all over again.

Mode B gives you a fresh chapter to live... reach out to it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Remember - she is your ex for a reason.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I read your whole other thread as it happened. If you were to live with her again, she would treat you the same b!tchy way again. She seems pleasant now because she IS pleasant and cute in the sort of relationship you have now (not partners living together).

I think continued contact with her is preventing you from moving on.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

*Re: Contacting Ex. Possible aid in recovery or simply a sweet poison.q*

I never thought you would actually divorce her -- because a strong part of you really didn't want to. You kept spending far too much time with her when you were supposed to be detaching. Now you're divorced and continuing the same pattern. Don't. She hasn't changed. 

Move on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You need counselling to help you move on in whatever way you want, in whatever direction you need to.

Does she understand what great wrong she did to you?

Does she know why she did what she did?

Is she in counselling? If not she should be.

Little side question. She was a horrid person. Then she was a nice person, again. Why?

Did you play a part in the problems? Or was it really mainly all down to her?


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Hey JBH (I love your name by the way, and the song). I've been in a similar place as you, missing him, wishing we hadn't split, and yet I know my life is much more quiet and sane with him and his untreated bi polar disorder gone. 

It takes time. A friend of mine once said that she learned, from her divorce, that you're not over it until you're over it, you can't will yourself to be over it, and one day you'll wake up or you'll be in the middle of a project or you'll be in the grocery store and realize you're over it. 

It IS sad that there were good things, even great things, about the people we married but no longer live with, that we miss. I miss my best friend and conversational partner terribly. But i don't miss his depressive episodes sitting on the couch with his nose in his tablet mooning over the OW. Don't miss it at all. 

The thing is, either way, it hurts. You're mourning the nice aspects of your marriage and relationship and every time you see her or talk to her, you're reminded of those; you feel perhaps that they're still there and that they should still be available to you. But you only get it in small bursts of time, not on a regular basis, which heightens the feeling of missing her and the grief. 

I hope you start to feel some resolution for yourself soon.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> You need counselling to help you move on in whatever way you want, in whatever direction you need to.
> 
> Does she understand what great wrong she did to you?
> 
> ...


Hey @MattMatt, 

Great questions here.

- I did go to some "free" counseling through my EAP. I had 3 sessions. I may need to go back and pay for a session or 2 this time. My counselor mostly asked me what was going on since the divorce and if I felt a lot of relief starting a fresh, new life without my ex. She encouraged me to meet new people and gave me suggestions on how to resolve some of my issues and life goals too.

- I don't know if she fully understands what she did to me, or even if I fully understand. At the very least, she seems to realize she was being pretty mean and treated me with disrespect at times. One time after I had moved out and we met to discuss her refinance options, she even told that I deserve someone better who would treat me with respect. She also told me "Don't worry, you'll find someone", multiple times before I even gave her the letter. 

- I don't think she would take responsibility for Why she was that way. She would say it was because I "made her that way". I'm guessing it was a lot of built-up resentment because I didn't conform to her ideas and criticisms (i.e. selling all my games, wanting to still play games on occasion, not keeping everything as clean and tidy as she wanted).

- I think the "Horrid" person in her came out because after so many years of expecting me to change, I didn't. Or at least not to the level she was hoping. I'm sure you can find more details about what she "expected" me to do in previous posts. She used to be pretty "nice" for the most part, but she it seems like there was always something I did that she didn't like. Some things made sense and obviously I'm not perfect and I made mistakes (i.e. forgetting a special occasion or not buying her something nice for her B-day, not having dinner ready when I was home all day and she worked).
Other things were extreme nit-picking, IMHO. (she was displeased once because I told my family that we were buying her a car. Also, she wanted me to "sue" my friend for some money that he owed me, even though I had no written documents or proof other than emails where he claimed he was too broke to pay me.)

- I've tried to post all the mistakes that I think I made in the relationship in previous posts. I'm sure there were instances where I did the wrong thing; went out to play with my buddies on a Friday Night when I should have stayed home, not being as responsible or pro-active in doing things before she asked me to.

What were you thinking of in regards to me playing a part in the problems?


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

I think you might need more than one or two sessions!

Memory paints in soft pastels. It's not surprising that when you remove the irritant (the daily grind of the relationship), the limited contact you have with her is better.

Unless she's been in intensive, really good therapy (read: Expensive and long term, I'm only being partially sarcastic), then what you have with her is candy. It's not the steak and potatoes you need for proper (emotional) nourishment. Without good treatment, she's the same person you choose to divorce, those issues are still there.

Work on the loss in therapy.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey @MattMatt,
> 
> Great questions here.
> 
> ...


I think you just answered that question.

You made her resent you, then that enabled her to hate you.

But now you are not together she remembers the you she did not resent and did not, in the end, came to hate.

We know, in the main, the characters of the people we will marry. So why do some people then try to change them? It's the old joke about how a bride sees her wedding day: Aisle, Alter Hymn.

This is an interesting article I just found:- https://turningoverpebbles.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/aisle-altar-hymn/


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

notmyrealname4 said:


> @JukeboxHero
> 
> It's possible she'd like to have you around; as a sort of back-up plan. Not for romance or remarriage.
> 
> ...


I think this is the case for both of us. I don't think that either of us have really "moved on". She likes hanging out with me and venting or telling funny stories about her day at work. She claims that "I know her better than anyone". The good news is, she does have friends and co-workers who offer a sort of "support" network for her. She still claims I'm "lucky" because I have a roommate and family. 



Unicus said:


> I think you might need more than one or two sessions!
> 
> Memory paints in soft pastels. It's not surprising that when you remove the irritant (the daily grind of the relationship), the limited contact you have with her is better.
> 
> ...



You're absolutely correct, sir. 

My mind does seem to "paint" the prettier picture, highlighting all the fun aspects of our marriage and minimizing all the gritty, daily struggles.

As far as therapy is concerned, it doesn't seem like she believes it will help her or us. She refused to go to MC when we were married, no matter how much I tried to persuade her, so I went alone and tried to retell all the issues in our marriage to 2 different MC's.

In fact, this actually relates to one of the conversations I had with her just before the divorce. It was Mother's day, 1 week before we would go to my lawyer's office to site in front a judge and finalize our dissolution.

We were walking and talking about out messed up marriage. XW states that she didn't think I really put enough effort into trying to "save" our marriage. 
I responded, "What do you mean? I tried to get us to MC, but you didn't want to go!"
She retorted, "Yeah, and look what that did for our Marriage. That's the point where it really got bad"
I rebutted, "No, our marriage was really bad before I went to MC, that's why I went."
She acknowledged that was true. 

It's funny how she likes to claim that the MC destroyed our marriage or did nothing for us. But she didn't even go and it was FREE!! She decided it waste of time, because nobody could tell her "how to feel" and felt that "Only we can fix it". So, she stayed home and watched Grey's Anatomy while I went alone. 

Honestly, this is the thing that makes me feel the marriage was really over. I believe that if you want to try and make a marriage work, you could at least humor your spouse by trying something, even if you don't believe in it. IF she had told me a psychic or palm-ready could help us, I would at least humor the idea, even if I didn't believe it would help.


Well, that was therapeutic. Sometimes writhing about my situation here really helps me cement the situation in my "emotional" brain.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

The marriage was really over when you realized that your needs weren't less important than hers. 

A good relationship of any kind involves "Listening", not so much aurally (altough that's certainly part of it), but emotionally. When a loved one needs something, the other person is willing to give (all things considered, of course). When a partner is hurting b/c of the partnership, to deny that and avoid therapy is selfish to the point of being downright cruel. She's placing her need to "Feel good", over your need..she simply couldn't tolerate haring bad stiff about herself from you. See also: Narcissism.

You sound like a nice guy, you deserve a good relationship. Sadly, that's not to be with your XW. Don't confuse the deep and real loss of divorce..even when the divorce is a good thing....with actual loss of the person or what they provided. 

What she provided was a mirage, a glossy package that appeared to be more enticing than it was. True love reveals itself thru the daily grind of the relationship itself. That will come your way, just be strong.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You need to stop contact. Period. Its fvcking with your head, and you will never move on any other way. She is your ex for very good reasons.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

It sounds to me as if you were, and still are, willing to work on the marriage/relationship, and she's still not, just showing up for the goodies still. She has good memories and as MattMatt says, has forgotten the resentment and hatred. But I think the crucial thing is what Unicus said, which is that you were willing to work on the marriage (and some of the things you listed that may have caused her resentment are serious but others not so much, and of course when they're ready to check out, they choose to major on the minor), she was presenting a glossy package, but ultimately put her needs ahead of yours. 

You haven't reached a form of closure yet not just because you remember the good things about the marriage and would really like to have your desire and commitment to work on the marriage acknowledged. If she could somehow acknowledge that, you might be able to move forward. It's a need of yours that if met would really help you get over the hump, but she's not into meeting your needs . . . she's in to keeping in contact with you to meet hers.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> It sounds to me as if you were, and still are, willing to work on the marriage/relationship, and she's still not, just showing up for the goodies still. She has good memories and as MattMatt says, has forgotten the resentment and hatred. But I think the crucial thing is what Unicus said, which is that you were willing to work on the marriage (and some of the things you listed that may have caused her resentment are serious but others not so much, and of course when they're ready to check out, they choose to major on the minor), she was presenting a glossy package, but ultimately put her needs ahead of yours.
> 
> You haven't reached a form of closure yet not just because you remember the good things about the marriage and would really like to have your desire and commitment to work on the marriage acknowledged. If she could somehow acknowledge that, you might be able to move forward. It's a need of yours that if met would really help you get over the hump, but she's not into meeting your needs . . . she's in to keeping in contact with you to meet hers.


Very True, TeddieG.

Ironically, one of the last conversations we had before our divorce was her telling me that she didn't think I really tried that hard to save our marriage. I responded something to the effect of... "I tried to sign us up for MC, but you refuse to go". She responded with "Yeah, look where that got us, that was the turning point where our marriage really got messed up". I retorted, "No, our marriage was already at it's worst before MC, that's why I went" She acknowledged that true. 

IT did feel good to finally stand up for myself and for her to acknowledge I was right.

Here are some highlights of the encounters we've since the divorce was final.

1. She showed me texts/pics a guy sent her. Previously, she had told me about this guy whom she met while paddle-boarding with one of her gay friends. He seemed interested in buying her Paddleboard (and I guess she was thinking of selling it to him) so she gave him her phone number. Turns out he just wanted to hook up her and continually asked her out on dates/invited her to hang out. She turned him down every time, until finally he revealed his true intentions and said "You're hot, wanna F8ck" She showed me that part of the conversation along a shirtless pic he sent (she saved an img of it, but had deleted all the other txts and blocked him). She said it really freaked her out and she couldn't believe how forward and perverted some guys are. I told her, "at least he didn't send you d1ck pics!"

A couple of other tidbits 

-She claimed that prior to the divorce, she kept trying to invite me out to eat dinner to see if anything had changed and we could work things out. She realized it was "Really over" because I would always shoot her down. I was frustrated by this statement because A. She ever told me she wanted to work things out, and B. I probably accepted her invitation more than half the time, in fact..I can only recall a few times I shot her "let's get something to eat" invite down because I had other plans. Also, the only thing we really discussed was the whole refinance thing. In reality, I probably met up with her way more than I should have.

-She said I was "kinda a douche" BEFORE the divorce, (in a very "it's water under the bridge" way). I asked her why and how she thought that. Her main reason was me pushing her to refinance the car. She also mentioned the one time I went to dinner with my family and O'Charleys and she dropped some mail off for me in the Parking lot but I didn't invite her in to see my family. 



*Second Encounter.* Somehow we met to go to Costco, and then had dinner afterwards. She noticed our outfits matched and invited me to sit beside her so we could take a selfie using my phone. We took about half a dozen of us smiling and looking cute together. She promptly decided it would be a hilarious joke to group txt my family using my phone and announced "Guess who I ran into today?" and after some guesses from my family she posted a pic of together. I thought it was cute and kinda funny at the time, but then it dawned on me that it was probably getting everyone's hopes up (since most of them did NOT want to see us divorce) for no reason. 

Based on our previous encounter, I asked if she thought we ever could work things out. She said "Naw, I think we're just way too different" 
Later, while sitting in her car, I tried to prod her for my details about she felt about us. She described how she was "surprised" that I decided to sign a year long lease when I moved into my friends' house. She apparently didn't want/expect me to leave for that long and she felt I could just leave for a few months to "give each other some space.She described how she waited oh so patiently for me to come back to her.

In her mind my friend just took advantage of my situation, and if he was a true friend, he would have just let me stay there for a few months while we figured things out.

I reminded her that I TOLD her, explicitly that I was going to sign a contract and before I left, I asked her if she had any desire to try and work on things. Her response was "Idk, I need more time to think about it", and "Do whatever you think is right for you"...this was after she we spent a month apart while she was in the PH.

*Third encounter* I believe this was one where I realized she still had my passport. I just got home from a family reunion and she came over to drop it off. My intention was to exit as soon as showed up and gave me what I needed, but for some reason I gave in when she asked if we could go get ice cream and invited my 2 youngest sisters to tagalong. They let her drive me youngest sister's Toyota Celica and she joked and laughed with them the whole time. I felt rather confused and emotionally distraught. I wanted to leave, but at the same time I missed her charming demeanor. After we returned from the grocery store she noticed me looking rather glum walking in our backyard. I told her how I felt and she seemed very compassionate towards my feelings and gave me a soft hug.

After hanging out with my family for another hour or so, I told her I needed to talk to her before we left. I sat her down on the porch swing and asked her if she told her how I was confused and tortured by her new friendliness and wanting to hang out. I asked if she had any feelings about us or any desire to work things out. She insisted that we would merely be friends. I told her I wasn't ready for that yet and we could NOT hang out or do anything together unless she wanted to work on fixing or starting over in our relationship. She seemed unhappy, but said that if I felt that way she would respect my wishes.

After she left, I told my parents and sisters about our decision. It was the best and most alleviated I have felt in a long time, like a huge burden had been lifted from my chest. 

I will admit that since then, I've still had some txt exchanges with her. Some of them I started. Recently she let me know one her friends was getting married. I asked how things were going on the wedding day and she sent me a cute of her and the bridesmaid, then later a selfie of her outside at some winery. 

Last Sunday, she invited me to go paddleboarding/kayaking with her again. I repeated a similar conversation as the one we had about a month ago (Third encounter) and told her I wasn't ready to be "just friends" because I still had some feelings for her and it wasn't fair to put me through that. At one point she came back with "Well, it's kinda not fair to me that you want to cut me out of your life completely" and let me know that I knew her better than anyone.

I'm not sure how that makes any sense, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm truly a "back-up" friend. If she's bored, wants to go out to eat or paddleboard, she'll try to invite me along, because she's accustomed to the convenience of me being available to listen to vent about the frustrations of her work life. 

PS All the BOLD red text was stuff that she said, imho, to alleviate herself of any responsibility for our divorce and make me feel responsible/guilty about it in the process. She never informed me of these intentions or feelings if she ever truly had them during our separation process.


Thanks for the taking the time to listen to me vent!


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Are you dating? Time to explore all the wonderful women that are available. I didn't waste anytime after separating. 8 months later, I'm in a serious relationship, having the time of my life. Just stop talking to her, time to move on.

I must of had one of the worst marriages, I left years ago before I moved out. Ha.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> I wanted to get something off my chest tonight. Something I've been putting off for a long time. If you want to know more about my background, you can find my thread entitles "Wife is having an emotional breakdown"
> Since the dissolution, it's like a huge weight has been lifted and I feel most the anger and resentment have faded away. Most of the time, we talk like old friends. I know she treated me poorly in the past, but since our Dissolution, she's returnd to her friendly, cheerful self with her weird, witty sense of humor and sweet charm that made me fall in love with her in the first place.
> ...


Some people CAN be friends after a divorce. And some cannot.

Two different scenarios.

A A couple realise that they really are not getting on as a couple so part amicably and remain on cordial terms. 

B A couple crash and burn because husband/wife find their spouse is having a long term affair with a neighbour.

Out of the two couples I would say couple A have a good chance of remaining friends but Couple B? No chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

A year later I also struggle. My ex-partner does not communicate (in the relationship). And things have been improving in my life now I'm prioritising some of my old interests (getting back to martial arts, working out a bit, back at university, playing badmington, seeing my son, catching the occasional live show, just took up dancing lessons, all the stuff I never had time for) and its difficult because when I want to share it with, I want to share it with people I have a connection with, people who I value, so it's tempting to reach out backwards... then I force myself to remember some of the things that _broke_ the relationship. It doesn't making the feelings go away but it does stop me from making the mistake of trying to unbake the cake.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She actually said it's "kinda not fair to me that you want to cut me out of your life completely" since the divorce?!! What is she, 5 years old? Still thinks life should be fair when it comes to her? Do you really need more proof that she's totally self-absorbed? Life's all about her. Yes, you're importance to her is as a back-up friend when no one else is available but you shouldn't still be in her life. That doesn't benefit you. 

You've been advised many times that you need to cut her out of your life so you can finish moving on. Why haven't you?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think for the most part there is a little Mode A in every divorce or bad relationship. There always will be the memories of the love that once was but exists no more. I think the old adage that you should never be friends with an ex comes out of not letting Mode A overtake you and make you live Mode B all over again. It probably would be better for you to stay away from Mode A having the least amount of contact with her as possible and concentrate your efforts moving forward. Fool me once....etc etc.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Openminded said:


> She actually said it's "kinda not fair to me that you want to cut me out of your life completely" since the divorce?!! What is she, 5 years old? Still thinks life should be fair when it comes to her? Do you really need more proof that she's totally self-absorbed? Life's all about her. Yes, you're importance to her is as a back-up friend when no one else is available but you shouldn't still be in her life. That doesn't benefit you.
> 
> You've been advised many times that you need to cut her out of your life so you can finish moving on. Why haven't you?


You're right, I think she is pretty self-absorbed. I'm starting to realize that now. She seems to be willing to respect my wishes about not trying to hang-out, or at least she'll mention it after inviting me to hang out "Do you want to go out on the lake today, it's really nice.. or you still don't want to be around me..."

This past weekend, I did have a brief conversation with her. She was telling me about her CFO had a talk with her about something..She then joked about she must pretty important because the CEO and CFO were having conversations with her. I know one of the issues she had was not getting along with her previous boss--I'm pretty sure they put her with a new team at work just for that reason.


Btw, a couple of things I didn't get around to in the update post. 

I'm not sure if she's actually moved on with another man or is trying to make me jealous, but she seems to enjoy telling me about her interactions with her "friends" and attention she gets from other guys.

First Encounter. She asked if I was dating anyone else yet. I told her I probably wasn't ready to see other people, and I had heard that you should wait awhile or it would be considered a rebound relationship. She told me not to listen to them and I should just do what I wanted to do. She asked if I was still interested in a cute, hispanic girl at work. 

Second Encounter; She asked if I was seeing anyone yet. I said no and asked her if she was dating anyone. She responded something to the effect of "What is dating, really?" followed with "Idk, not really---just hanging out with some guys"

A few times over the phone she would mention hanging out with friends.

-She started going fishing with an Asian co-worker and her husband. I was a little jealous because she NEVER wanted to even try doing that when we were married. She hangs out with this woman and her kid a lot. 

-She asked if she could borrow my camping gear because she wanted to go camping.I asked why (Since she hated camping during the last few years of our relationship) and she said she was going with some friends. I asked her, "Who?" and she responded with, "Just some friends". When I pressed further she told me it was the Asian couple from work.

-She told me someone gave her a dozen red roses at work. Again, when I inquired as to who, she said something to the effect of, "Why do you care/I don't need to tell you that". Which is true. I admitted that I didn't care that much, I was just wondering if she was in a new relationship. She didn't answer that question but inquired. "Would it make things easier for you if I was?" I'm pretty sure she meant this in regards to us hanging out.


Honestly, I will say that it might make things easier for me if she had someone. 

@MattMatt, @jb02157
I guess someday we could be friends. I think we ended our relationship more like Couple A. Did you guys read my latest update? I appreciate your responses, but it seems more geared towards my Opening post on the thread.
I'm also wondering what Everyone thinks of her taking pics of us together and sending it to my whole family. Feels to me like she was being a big tease and confusing everyone into thinking we were getting back together, even though it was a big joke for her.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> Are you dating? Time to explore all the wonderful women that are available. I didn't waste anytime after separating. 8 months later, I'm in a serious relationship, having the time of my life. Just stop talking to her, time to move on.
> 
> I must of had one of the worst marriages, I left years ago before I moved out. Ha.


I've been thinking about this. I created a profile on POF. I haven't started contacting women yet. I'm not sure if it's too "soon". My therapist told me if i entered into a relationship within a year after splitting with my XW, it would be considered a rebound relationship. I'm wondering if dating counts towards that? 

Once I get some better pics in my profile, and maybe do a complete "NO CONTACT" from my XW for a month or 2, I will start trying to date other women. 

I've also considered asking out that cute Hispanic girl at work. Not sure if that's a good idea or not. I've always heard it's not good to date co-workers, but she does work in a different department.

Tell me what you think!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Seriously this is a no brainer. STOP talking to her. BLOCK her number and her email. Be done.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

JukeboxHero said:


> - I don't think she would take responsibility for Why she was that way. She would say it was because I "made her that way".


:banghead:

And what, in that statement, makes you think she would be worth spending more time with? Do you _intentionally _go out with selfish, backstabbing people who blame _you_, so you can be harmed? Cos if you do, you'll need to spend a lot more time in IC. One or two sessions wouldn't even _begin _to get down to the root of why you feel so inadequate that such a woman is the only kind you would deserve.

We've told you before: Your #1 goal at this time is to learn to be OK _being alone_. Not needing someone around you to cover up your own issues. And not accepting a subpar person just to avoid that.

I know this is an old post, but I hope you've seen this by now. 

Back to reading.

ETA: Ok, two more thoughts. First, she's 'ok' around you now because you don't have anything she wants; ie the divorce is over so there's nothing else she can get from you except the emotional pickup from knowing you're still pining for her. No reason to be mean to you at this point,.

Second, I RARELY advise men in your situation to start dating because you're mentally weak and still a Nice Guy and the first girl who gives you a second look, you'll fall head over heels with her. _However_, since you seem to have no concept of what good women are even like, I think it would help you to just go out on a few dates - with DIFFERENT women, just so you can get a taste of what women are like who are NOT manipulative, conniving, selfish and self-absorbed. IMO, that will help you understand just how toxic your relationship with her was.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

As to the picture thing? It was IMO only designed to get the hopes up of those who didn't want to see you divorced. Maybe so they would pressure you to beg her to come back.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And stop asking her questions. That's what she wants you to do. 

Don't let her win.


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

You realize that you are 'dating' your ex wife, and STILL her plan B for friendship, right?

She has you right where she wants you - and you're playing right along even if you don't realize it.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Yes said:


> You realize that you are 'dating' your ex wife, and STILL her plan B for friendship, right?
> 
> She has you right where she wants you - and you're playing right along even if you don't realize it.


Yes, @Yes, I realize that now. I mean, I don't want to call it dating, but I guess that's what it is. 

Hence why I told her that unless she wants to work on some kind of relationship, I can't keep hanging out w/ her. One of her last responses to that was "Can't we just be friends with no expectations" 

Since telling her that, and receiving some constructive criticism here, I've been doing much better at avoiding contact with her.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

JukeboxHero said:


> Yes, @Yes, I realize that now. I mean, I don't want to call it dating, but I guess that's what it is.
> 
> Hence why I told her that unless she wants to work on some kind of relationship, I can't keep hanging out w/ her. One of her last responses to that was "Can't we just be friends with no expectations"
> 
> Since telling her that, and receiving some constructive criticism here, I've been doing much better at avoiding contact with her.


I'd go NC with her. That's the only way to get over a toxic person.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You need some pointers on divorce behavior. For starters: no hanging out with the ex; no supplying ego kibbles; no lending camping gear (next thing you know she'll be popping over for a cup of sugar); no asking about dates (you're not supposed to care); no taking pics together because you're not; no answering her nosy questions; no chatting, texting or sexting.

You're divorced, remember? If you do the above stuff, you may as well still be married.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> I'd go NC with her. That's the only way to get over a toxic person.


I'm assuming NC means No contact? 


Blondilocks said:


> You need some pointers on divorce behavior. For starters: no hanging out with the ex; no supplying ego kibbles; no lending camping gear (next thing you know she'll be popping over for a cup of sugar); no asking about dates (you're not supposed to care); no taking pics together because you're not; no answering her nosy questions; no chatting, texting or sexting.
> 
> You're divorced, remember? If you do the above stuff, you may as well still be married.


The good news is I'm making steps in that direction. The last time I met her in person was Aug 21st. I picked up some canning jars she didn't need/want anymore that I wanted to use to can tomatoes. 

Since then, I've been doing my best to avoid any contact. I still answer her calls, but I'm one of those people that don't like to ignore other people or incoming calls. 

I did ignore some of her calls a few weekends ago.

I finally answered one to see if it was important. As always, she wanted to know if I was able to go paddling with her.
I told her I was busy, she laughed and said "Yeah, right!" 
I responded by saying I had some scheduled Meet-up and I was helping my roommate install a dog fence. 

Later the same day, she texted me asking if she could borrow the inflatable paddleboard. I told her I was too busy to loan it to her. 

The next day, I posted on FB that I was considering moving from Ohio to New Mexico since my company is opening a new Call Center there (something I'm still considering--might even post here about it). 

She texted me to let me know her Filipino friends and family had seen my FB post and were blowing up her phone up w/ FB messages @ 3-4am asking her what was going on (why WE were moving). Apparently, she hasn't told most or any of her relatives or friends that we were separated. I found this to be pretty amusing, she did not think it was, and wished she had silenced her phone, LOL.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

NC = no contact, yep 

And the best advice someone ever gave me regarding an ex bf I had who wouldn't leave me alone after we broke up. It is the best advice, if you use it. When narcissists contact you after you break up with them, it's not because they miss you, it's because they miss the control they once had over you.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> Are you dating? Time to explore all the wonderful women that are available. I didn't waste anytime after separating. 8 months later, I'm in a serious relationship, having the time of my life. Just stop talking to her, time to move on.
> 
> I must of had one of the worst marriages, I left years ago before I moved out. Ha.





turnera said:


> :banghead:
> 
> And what, in that statement, makes you think she would be worth spending more time with? Do you _intentionally _go out with selfish, backstabbing people who blame _you_, so you can be harmed? Cos if you do, you'll need to spend a lot more time in IC. One or two sessions wouldn't even _begin _to get down to the root of why you feel so inadequate that such a woman is the only kind you would deserve.
> 
> ...


Alright, since a couple of you suggested dating, I've been seriously considering this over the past few weeks.

I created a POF profile, but I haven't started messaging girls yet...I decided to wait a bit and get better pictures, and polish my profile a bit. That will likely be happening over the next few weeks.

In the Meantime, there are 2 girls at my work that I find pretty attractive, and I have built some rapport with. One is a cute, Hispanic girl, Gabby who's been working at my company for quite awhile and other is a relatively new girl named Lucy. 

Gabby; I've talked to her a few times as well her Spanish-speaking co-workers and I feel like I have pretty good rapport with them. I always thought she was cute and I have a feeling she/her friends may be aware of this as well. A few times I noticed her turn her head so her gaze would follow me as I walk past her at work. 
A couple of weeks ago, I saw her in the break-room and asked if she liked chili peppers. I was thinking of bringing some of my excess chili peppers in to share with co-workers and told her I had a garden with lots of hot peppers at home.
She said she would like them and I offered to bring some in for her.
I brought in a couple of dozen and after giving some to her and her friends. I think it caught her off guard when I showed up at her cubicle with a container full of peppers. She seemed surprised and covered her mouth to stifle a giggle. 

I left the rest in the break room for other people that I knew would enjoy them. A few days after that, I saw her again. I noticed she had let part of her hair down and asked why. She pointed out that she was trying to color it, asked what I thought/if I could tell...and remarked that nobody seemed to notice. I joked with her about how it needed to be more dramatic, maybe she should dye it red or bright purple or something. She let me know that her parents and her fully enjoyed snacking on my chili peppers. I asked if she used them in any recipes and she said "Nope, we just ate them as a snack w. our meal!
I let her know I had more that I could bring in and she seemed pleased with the idea.

Last Friday I brought in a few more and met her in the Cafe. She said, "Wow, I didn't think you were going to actually bring them!". Her and her friend took handful or two each. Most of the rest of her break we talking about making salsa, canning and she cheerfully told me about a peach tree in her parent's backyard with huge peaches. She seemed fully engaged and I could be mistaken, but I think there might be some attraction there. I'm seriously considering asking for her number and suggesting we hang out sometime.

Lucy: New girl. I've only had a few conversations with her, but she sits in my area of the call center so I see her on a more frequent basis. We've had a few conversations over the past 2 weeks. I found out she was a student teacher, loved teaching, her brother and father had a bad Lasik surgery experience, and she fell asleep and rear-ended a car in front of her recently. She seemed very friendly and engaging, but being at a Call Center, we don't have a lot of time to talk between calls. With all the smiles and eye contact in our conversations, and the fact that she sat next to me last Thursday, I decided I would confidently ask for her number and suggest we hang out sometime. I imagined all kinds of scenarios with me saying something clever and being smooth and confident, but it ended up going like this. 

As I logged out of my phone I turned to her and said "Well, I'm about to head home..
She smiled and showed me some doodles on a piece of paper, "Look, I'm bored so I'm tracing this.."
Me; "Cool, Hey Lucy, would you like to hang out some time?"
She looks at me and seems slightly surprised and gives a quick shrug with shoulders.
My mind starts to panic at this unexpected response, so I decide to offer a reason, "I mean, I recall you saying your father and brother had a bad experience with Lasik. I'm considering getting it too, so I wanted to hear more about that"
She says, "Okay, give me your number.." I do and she writes it down on her paper.
I then mutter something about we could just get a cup of coffee somewhere since we don't have much time to talk at the call center, and how she seemed like a cool person to get to know.

I have a feeling I botched that one. I didn't come off nearly as confident as I had hoped and probably said way more than necessary and overthought the whole situation.

Would love to hear what you guys think, though.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think that sounded just fine.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

turnera said:


> I think that sounded just fine.


 @turnera Which did? The conversation with Lucy?

I described the conversation to my roommate and he thought I shouldn't have mentioned anything about her family's Lasik experience because then it sounds more like I want to know about her family then getting to know her. He also asked if I complimented her after teasing her about her dorky glasses. 

So far, she hasn't called me so I feel like she may not be interested or she's just really busy.

At this point, if I see her at work again, I'm probably just going to converse with her like normal, without asking anything about her lack of calling me?

Also, What do you think about this Gabby girl? I feel like she may have some interest in me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, you don't ask her about calling you. Instead, at about 10:30, you go up to her and say 'hey, I wanna take you for some tacos for lunch. You free today?' And if she says yes, just go! If she says no, you say, "Ok, which day works for you then?" Then she'll have to be clear if she's not interested, and you'll know.


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