# Wife of 13 years cheated w/ my best friend



## Rand OmGuy

Ok....i have been trying to cope with this for about 3 weeks now...

Short background....I have been suspicous of a change in my wife's mood and temperment over the past couple of years. 

I finally let it get to me and confronted her and after a short time she admitted she had sex with MY BEST FRIEND. I feel like my heart was ripped out...i truly feel broken.

It happened two years before i confronted her. She swears it was the only time and the only person and she had felt extremely bad about it. 

We were having very difficult times back then...on the verge of divorce. I was not being attentive, affectionate and i was more focused on me. I realized this back then and started to make changes. But it seemed like it still wasn't good enough for her. Now I am starting to see that the better i got, the worse she felt. 

I was betrayed by the two people i trusted the most. I confided in him about all of our problems and he used that oppurtunity to betray me. 

We have young kids and have been together 13 years. 

I made a decision that our kids shouldn't have to pay for her mistake. 

I had to forgive her in order for us to move forward. But by forgiving her, i now have to carry the pain and pay for her mistake. 

I have said what i had to say to him...luckily for him we weren't in person. 

But how do i cope with the pain, the betrayal and lack of trust without throwing it in her face of having contempt towards her. 

We discuss it and i tell her how i'm feeling, but i feel like i am going to explode. what can i do without leaving her and tearing our family apart?


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## bryanp

Your wife and friend are a real piece of work. The fact that your wife would decide to cheat on you with your best friend says it all. She knew that this double betrayal would hurt you to the core. Why would you believe her if she said it was only one time? Hopefully it was not in your home. It sounds like your wife is in damage control.

I do hope if the OM is married or has a girlfriend and that you will inform them. Again she picked your best friend on purpose which says a great deal about her attitude toward you. Apparently there have been no consequences to her actions. If you had sex with her best friend do you think she would have been so accepting and forgiving as you? I really feel sorry for you.


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## InlandTXMM

So sorry you are here. The harsh truth is you are most likely do not have all the facts and there is much more to come. Trying to reconcile is a long and hard process. It is painful and the emotions come in waves, all the time. One of the current posters called it the "roller coaster ride from hell", if I remember correctly.

One of the things you will need first and foremost is the FULL and COMPLETE TRUTH. She needs to lay everything on the table, including writing you a timeline of the events. You HAVE to know for sure what you are forgiving, or it will haunt you forever.

One of the truths you will see common in all of our stories is that the cheating spouse will never give you the whole truth right away. This is called Trickle Truthing. It is highly likely that the affair was much longer and more frequent than she is telling you.

Cheaters follow a common script, sadly. "We're just friends" was where I caught mine, but quickly it becomes, "We just kissed" (they had sex). "We only did it once" = multiple times in multiple positions, etc. You get the idea.

Obviously this dude is out of your lives for good. She can never have contact with him again. What is her social life? Does she work outside the home? Give us a few more details and know you are going to be advised by some incredibly supportive and smart people here. This site saved my sanity.


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## MattMatt

You would both benefit from couples counselling. But do insist on knowing everything if that's what you want. One time? It might have been more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump

You get some counseling. You have permission to be angry. You have permission to make her feel guilty. I guarantee that you can't make her feel as bad as she's made you feel.

Also, if you can't get over the betrayal, you have permission to divorce her. You're not the one that made the unforgivable mistake. She is.

Good luck.


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## Lovemytruck

That sucks!

My exWW had a fling with my best friend. We were married 23 years.

I think what I learned was that I couldn't get over it. I tried for several months, and decided it was better to move on.

It is b!tich to be in your spot. I know first-hand.

Hang tough!


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## BobSimmons

Tro ll y guy. Somethings off about this but anyway good luck to OP


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## walkonmars

Has she told her parents? Yours?

Have you checked her phone log history? Email etc. 

Have you exposed to your' former bf's wife?

Have you arranged for IC for yourself and for her? 

Have you arranged for MC? 

She should be doing many of the "Have You..." questions I've posed.


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## Lovemytruck

BobSimmons said:


> Tro ll y guy. Somethings off about this but anyway good luck to OP


Huh? :scratchhead:


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## Rand OmGuy

Sadly it did happen in our house. Thankfully not in our bed. I know that what she did should be unforgivable. I wouldn't be nearly as hurt if it was a random guy. Temptation and Oppurtunity was there and she didn't think about me at all. She didn't care what it was going to do to me until afterwards. We are all human and make human mistakes. 

I just can't see making our elemtary age kids suffer and pay for her mistake. i don't take responsibility for her actions but i have some ownership in the things that led to that. 

i just need to figure out how to cope with all of this and not lose our family. If i lose the kids and the house and everything we worked for, i will feel like their actions took over and controlled my life. I can't let that happen.


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## fortheloveofit2

I think you are on the right track expressing your feelings towards what happened. Do not hold those emotions in...

Honestly Im torn with this also. I understand you want to keep your family together but she (the wife) can not get away with this..


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## Whip Morgan

Please don't ignore what everyone has already stated: there are more secrets you don't know about. Hard to believe it was only one time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The-Deceived

Man, I would ditch them both.


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## Rand OmGuy

I have questioned her and him (and yes he is out of the picture for good) and posed "trick" questions, half truths and traps and their stories jive. I have had long detailed conversations with my wife and explained that i expect 100% full disclosure before we moved forward....she came clean about texts and msg's between the two of the that she denied initially....i can say that i feel confident that i know the whole truth. She talked with a very close friend and told her what she did. He friend was very hard on her and didn't cut her any slack about what she did. That is about as close as MC will ever get to. She does not open up to people very well. she shuts down and becomes defensive. We had tried counseling in the past and it did not help much. I guess i am looking for a magic line that will take my pain away now...but there isn't one. Letting this out and disussing helps though. It gets a little easier to cope each day...some days are not so good....heartbroken in the south


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## InlandTXMM

I understand, man. Feel free to PM just to vent. For advice, keep coming right here. These guys and gals ROCK at this stuff.


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## snap

Check her phone/texting statements. If there was substantial communication over the recent months, the affair never ended.

Buy a voice activated recorder or two and place it somewhere where she's likely to spill the beans when you're not around. You poked the beehive, it's very likely you'll pick up the buzz.


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## tom67

VARs in the car and around the house just to make sure.


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## bryanp

Sex with your best friend and in your house says it all.


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## JustGrinding

Do with it what you will:

Truths About Adulterous Women

- When a woman assures you there’s nothing to worry about, you better start worrying (and monitoring) for your life.

- When a woman says “he’s just a friend,” she’s already deeply involved in an EA.

- A woman who admits to an EA is already involved in a PA that’s risen to at least romantic kissing.

- A woman who admits to kissing her AP has already engaged in sex with him.

- A woman who admits to having sex “one time” has had sex with, her AP on multiple occasions.

- A woman who says “we only did it a few times,” has been involved in a long-term sexual relationship with her AP.

- When she says "That's the truth and I swear it on a stack of Bibles," she is definitely lying.


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## tom67

Schedule a polygraph test and you may get the rest of the story.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

An affair with a best friend has to be one of the worst case scenarios. She knew he was your best friend. I hope he is now out of your life completely. I'm sitting here thinking that even if I had the inclination to cheat, the best friend would be off limits. That would make the betrayal all that much worse. Of course, maybe that's why I'm not a cheater.

Does she truly know what she's done and what she has risked? It sounds like you have forgiven her for the sake of your children but has she earned your forgiveness? That's what needs to be addressed.

Sorry that you are here but you came to the right place for advice.

EDIT: Hitting a low point in your marriage is not an excuse. Did you start going out to get laid?


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Read this thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html


Its about a husband who's wife was having a full blown physical/emotional affair with his loser best friend.

If you want any advice directly from the poster, I am sure you can send bff a private message and he will answer.


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## Shaggy

Call up his wife / gf if he has one and expose his cheating.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

JustGrinding said:


> Do with it what you will:
> 
> Truths About Adulterous Women
> 
> - When a woman assures you there’s nothing to worry about, you better start worrying (and monitoring) for your life.
> 
> - When a woman says “he’s just a friend,” she’s already deeply involved in an EA.
> 
> - A woman who admits to an EA is already involved in a PA that’s risen to at least romantic kissing.
> 
> - A woman who admits to kissing her AP has already engaged in sex with him.
> 
> - A woman who admits to having sex “one time” has had sex with, her AP on multiple occasions.
> 
> - A woman who says “we only did it a few times,” has been involved in a long-term sexual relationship with her AP.
> 
> - When she says "That's the truth and I swear it on a stack of Bibles," she is definitely lying.



That is basically cheater script. Any cheater man/woman acts to the script, just as a betrayed spouse acts through a script ( a really bad one)

You have a good head on your shoulders OP.

What does your GUT feeling tell you. If you have to CONVINCE yourself to believe her and feel as if you WANT to believe her, then there lies the problem of your instincts telling you otherwise.

Its rare when it is ONE TIME but usually the ONE TIMERS usually confess the day of, next day or REALLY soon afterward. In your case its 2 years....

I suggest exposing to everyone that your wife cheated. You may be surprised some people (friends/fam) telling or revealing certain things to you.


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## walkonmars

What does your former best friend's wife have to say?


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## workindad

They have had a long time to set their stories, do not discount this as a possibility. In fact 3 years of time that you have not had. Stay alert, look through old phone records, texts, emails, etc. I'd also let his wife/SO know what happened as well.

Good Luck
WD


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## keko

Rand OmGuy said:


> I just can't see making our elemtary age kids suffer and pay for her mistake.


Staying in a miserable marriage and forgiving your wife who betrayed in the most cruel way and acting like nothing had happened is not setting a good example to your kids.


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## MysteryMan1

She let your best friend knock her down in your house?? I don't see how you can walk around that place everyday my man. I don't think I could get past something like that.

As far as the best friend I definitely let everyone in our circle of friends know what's up. They need to know what he's capable of.


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## workindad

OP- I'm sure you figured this out also, but the OM is not your best friend. You don't sleep with your best friend's spouse. You will be better off without him in your life. 

This is not meant to minimize what your wife did.

Good luck
WD


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## Will_Kane

snap said:


> Check her phone/texting statements. If there was substantial communication over the recent months, the affair never ended.
> 
> Buy a voice activated recorder or two and place it somewhere where she's likely to spill the beans when you're not around. You poked the beehive, it's very likely you'll pick up the buzz.


This is good advice. If everything jives, it helps to rebuild trust. If not, it prevents wasting time on a false reconciliation.

Have you told the other man's wife, parents, close family and close friends what he's done?

Has your wife handwritten a no contact letter to the other man?

Do you have all of her passwords and access to all communication devices and accounts?

What are your triggers? If they did it on the couch, ask your wife to get rid of the couch. If there is something that reminds you of the affair (except for your wife herself), cut it out of your life. Make it as easy on yourself as possible.


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## verpin zal

Believe me when I say that it wasn't just once.

Source: experience, which one's details I don't wish to disclose at this time.

Just believe me.


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## WorkingOnMe

The only real choice, in the short run, is to dump her. If you come at it with the attitude that you'll do anything to save the marriage, then it's already gone. She'll never respect you again. You need to dump her. Then, if she shows sufficient remorse then you can take her back. But not until she puts the work in.


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## DoubleNs

First of all,sorry to hear of the anguish and heartache you and your family are going through. Even if kids don't know, they know...
I totally respect a first response to be "tell me all or else."
If you're going to stay and work this out. You MUST forgive entirely and truly..why have all those visuals and thoughts that you can't forget. You know enough to know you're sad and hurt and mad and anything else you feel
You are choosing to stay..that's what you feel is best
Start the long road to healing..move past
Good luck 
Easy? Hell no.. But necessary
Don't get all the dirty and dark details, why?
It's done
If you're staying, then you must know its done. No?
Good luck.... sincerely


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## F-102

Rand OmGuy said:


> Sadly it did happen in our house. Thankfully not in our bed. I know that what she did should be unforgivable. I wouldn't be nearly as hurt if it was a random guy. Temptation and Oppurtunity was there and she didn't think about me at all. She didn't care what it was going to do to me until afterwards. We are all human and make human mistakes.
> 
> I just can't see making our elemtary age kids suffer and pay for her mistake. i don't take responsibility for her actions but i have some ownership in the things that led to that.
> 
> i just need to figure out how to cope with all of this and not lose our family. If i lose the kids and the house and everything we worked for, i will feel like their actions took over and controlled my life. I can't let that happen.


True, you don't want to let the kids suffer, but will they really thrive in a broken home when their father no longer trusts the mother and resents her? How are you two getting along now?


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## carpenoctem

*Random Guy:*



You say you have been noticing her mood changes, etc., *for a couple of years now.*

Is that more likely (mood swings across 2 years) for an act of infidelity that happened only once 2 years ago, or for an infidelity that continued consistently, or on and off, across the last 2 years? *What is more logical?*

When you replay the events in your mind, did she act fine when the other man was also present? Or did she display mood swings even then? My presumption is: if she acted quite 'normal' (or even exuberant / bubbly) when the other man and you were in the scene, they had a well-established, and ongoing affair which was by then habitually normal, and she was on a high dopamine dose from having two men at her call (the safe spouse and the sexy lover).

It is also possible that they made that bad choice only once, then she decided to let it slide and make good of it, and eventually learned to act normal in front of you two. But I am biased. Call it the TAM prejudice.




When your marriage was hitting a rough patch years ago, she took a sexual detour with your then best friend. If you accept that escapist rationale, would you say that in the 2 years after that, your marriage has not hit rough patches again (you do mention that then, it was near-divorce, and you have made conscious efforts at self-improvement)?

You believe that the rough patches after that incident were less serious, and she did not take that escape route again (consider: by then, the antidote was prescribed and consumed once at least, and it would be less bitter to swallow, because the rewards were known)? (*Especially since the agent of escapism - your best friend - was present in your life throughout).*

A Polygraph bluff could get you some more unsavory truths, if you want / dare to know them. Even an insightful MC can get some of those out (she seems to resist MC, true to her nature - so you say. But right now, she should OFFER you MC/ Polygraph / Anything that will help you deal with this and perhaps heal).



She felt guilty enough not to repeat it even if / when tested, but not guilty enough to cut him out of your lives under some pretext, so that her own husband would not be subject to continued humiliation by interacting with him?

*(Even if her husband – you –were unaware of the infidelity, if she really valued you as a man and a spouse, she should have ensured that the other man was not allowed to look at you as a cuckold from such close quarters, and further more, not permitted to act as your ‘best friend’ and befool you anymore).*




You said:
_"I just can't see making our elementary age kids suffer and pay for her mistake. i don't take responsibility for her actions but i have some ownership in the things that led to that. 
i just need to figure out how to cope with all of this and not lose our family. If i lose the kids and the house and everything we worked for, i will feel like their actions took over and controlled my life. I can't let that happen."_


*Please be warned that even if you reconcile, their actions will control / command your life for a long time to come, perhaps forever, at a different level. You will keep the house and the children, but you will wrestle with diminished self-esteem, dented masculinity… …your ability to trust, emotional safety, anger control, mental peace, et al, will be corroded. You will think of having revenge affairs, and poison your own integrity. Your future outlook itself will be rewritten subliminally. It’s an acid test. Be ready. *


*P.S.:
*In your scheme for Reconciliation and rebuilding, please factor in the possibility that somewhere down the line, you might learn that they had it going (continuously / on & off) *until the day you confronted her (and perhaps even after confrontation, having been taken underground).* If that happens, what will you do?

*If you will walk away in that case, please go for more truth excavation right now* -- through VARs (to detect renewed / continued contact), past phone records, enquiries with friends / social groups, polygraph (bluff / real), MC/IC, etc -- *so that you don’t stand in that crossroad months / years into Reconciliation.*

That (a False Reconciliation, when it finally unravels) will truly be devastating. Perhaps even more than the current situation.


May you have the fortitude, Brother.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

I agree with *carpenoctem*; I also wondered how her mood has changed for a solid two years after a one-time event. I don't believe this was a one-time event.

Within the last two weeks I discovered my wife had at least one affair during a separation a couple of years ago. When we reconciled I asked her if she had been with anybody else while we were separated. She had insisted she had not and told me in this weird matter-of-fact voice that she was "in fact, insulted that I would suggest such a thing." ... without acting insulted at all. Well, a couple of weeks ago I found her secret email account and then I found her secret dating site account and then I found her secret Facebook account. I had been reading TAM for awhile trying to get answers to other problems in our marriage and after reading the infidelity threads I thought maybe I shouldn't take any chances ... so I checked some things and they all came back clean just as I expected. Then one day I left my laptop at work and used her computer to check email. A weird (and suggestive) userid dropped down when I went to enter mine. That is when I started following the trail. I was able to put a timeline together. I confronted her. I didn't accuse her of anything, I simply asked questions ... questions I knew the answers to. It was classic. She lied. Then she tried to figure out what I knew. Then she admitted to one thing and lied about the next. She then admitted but insisted she never had sex. I have since found that not to be true. I haven't started a thread of my own on this because I'm still processing; trying to figure out what I want. You have to know that in 20 years I have NEVER caught my wife in a lie. NEVER. She has never given me a reason to doubt her word. The most trustworthy person I've ever met and I had 20 years backing that up. Two weeks ago I was writing posts that said as much. Two weeks and she has lied to me over and over. Deny, admit, minimize, rationalize ... over and over. She knows; she can't even look at me. 

The reason I am telling you is that no matter how much you want to believe her that it was just this one time ... you have no reason to trust her.


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## HappyHubby

WorkingOnMe said:


> The only real choice, in the short run, is to dump her. If you come at it with the attitude that you'll do anything to save the marriage, then it's already gone. She'll never respect you again. You need to dump her. Then, if she shows sufficient remorse then you can take her back. But not until she puts the work in.


THIS. I believe this is the ONLY course of action in these circumstances. It allows you to heal, gain self-respect, her respect, and proper pecking order in the relationship. She is forced to grovel and beg for your forgiveness AS SHE SHOULD. she brutally betrayed you. Do did nothing close to this I'm assuming. If she doesn't pine after you then really what are you saving?? 

I would only take her back if I was shown sufficient remorse and grovelling and effort to fix whatever it is she needs to fix. In her case you mentioned being defensive and closed off. Tell her the old relationship is dead and you will only be willing to engage in a new one with her if the new and improved her shows herself to be not only trustworthy but worth it.


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## HappyHubby

Then if you do end up starting the reconciliation process, the full truth is a must. Polygraph seems to be the only option here.


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## Rand OmGuy

I truly in my heart know she has been honest with me about everything that happened, when it happened and how many times. I have spent the better part of the last 3 weeks checking emails, phone records, texts talking to friends within our circles and there is NOTHING that is out of the oridnary. I went back at looked at our paper cell phone bills from 2 years ago and the ONLY communication via cell phone between the former friend and my wife was on that day. It also makes sense know why she acted so hateful towards him when he was over hanging out with us and other friends. Could have been an act, if so, she played it well. 

The mood changes over the past 2 years were a red flag but i don't beleive the mood had anything to do with an ongiong and continued affair. As i started to make changes in how i was treating her and how i participated in the family, i think she felt worse and more guilty as time went along and the better i got the worse she felt. She is a genuine kind hearted person and she knew what she did would crush me and i think she was hoping i would never find out and we would live happily ever after without me knowing. 

I have given her the oppurtunity to come clean about anything else and told her that was her only oppurtunity and if i found out later, regardless on whether it is a week from now or 5 years from now, we will be done. 

Honestly, we are closer now than we have ever been. It doesn't make much sense but we are. We never communicated very well, she never seemed to put much effort into working on our marriage when we had problems, we pretty much co-existed for a long time. There was also love, we didn't yell and scream and fight, we never have fought about money. 

Now we have long conversations about very deep and intimate things as well as light casual conversations. We open up to each other about everything. We tell eachother things we would have kept to ourselves not too long ago. I am still in pain, i will be for some time. But by forgiving her, i have to forgive completely. We can't move forward if we are constantly looking back, we can't move forward if i hold contemp towards her. I had a long conversation about trust with her last night. I told her that i trust her, but not unconditionally. She has to earn my full trust again. I will stay guarded and stay vigilant and will continue to monitor communication and i have a couple of neighbors keeping an eye on activity around the house for me. She is a good person, a SPECTACULAR mom, a full time student working very hard to better our lives and she made a terrible mistake. The fact is, 2 years ago, if i was in a situation of temptation i don't know if i could have resisted. I am not a cheater, i don't believe in it, but humans make human mistakes. 

Leaving her and breaking up our family with not solve anything or make anything better. I am struggling with my confidence and self worth right now, but i am not going to let my pride causing my children pain.

I know there is no excuse for cheating, EVER. I will not allow her to make excuses. She has owned up to doing a very selfish and hurtful thing. I was very worried that she was only upset that i found out and not upset about what she did. Howver, i walked in on her in the bath a few days ago and she was sobbing almost uncontrollably. When i asked her why she was crying (fully expecting another revelation) she responded..."i feel so terrible. I risked ruining our family, i broke up your friendship with &*%$ and worst of all i broke my vows to you. i commited a cardinal sin" She was almost beside her self with guilt and remorse. I reminded her that we also had vows that said for better or for worse.


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## TRy

Rand OmGuy said:


> I am still in pain, i will be for some time. But by forgiving her, i have to forgive completely. We can't move forward if we are constantly looking back, we can't move forward if i hold contemp towards her.


 You say that she is human and that humans make mistakes, but then say that you must forgive completely. Dude, you are human too and you cannot really ever forgive completely. You can move on. You can over time bring it up less and less. But it will always be there. Do not make promises to her that will make you the bad guy when your normal human reaction the the betrayal will come out from time to time. You will have triggers that will make you sad and angry and she must be there to comfort you and not be there telling you that you are breaking your promise to forgive her completely.


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## nicesize45102

I've been there and am still there. Caught my wife and friend and have been dealing with it ever since. It will consume a lot of your thought. Forgiving and forgetting is 2 different things. My wife says my one little mistake and you will never forget it. I reminded her that it wasn't a little mistake and no I will never forget it. Now we are working on moving on and my biggest issue is learning to hold back and not through it in her face. Good luck and if you need someone to chat with send me an email to [email protected] I can tell you it helps to have someone who has been there to talk to.


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## happyman64

Random

This says it all!



> When i asked her why she was crying (fully expecting another revelation) she responded..."i feel so terrible. I risked ruining our family, i broke up your friendship with &*%$ and worst of all i broke my vows to you. i commited a cardinal sin" She was almost beside her self with guilt and remorse. *I reminded her that we also had vows that said for better or for worse. *


You have a remorseful wife. Many wayward spouses never get it. They know they were acting selfishly but they do not always realize what they are going to lose.

Your wife gets it.

But more to the point so do you. You are a man that honors his vows for better or for worse. 

I think you both are going to heal from this event and have a better marriage.

Sometimes the BS needs to support the WS. Especially when they are remorseful.

It shows your wife just how strong a man she married.

The key is that both of you continue to become better persons. That combined with open, honest communication will ensure a successful marriage.

Drop by the thread titled "Reconciliation". I think you will have a lot to share with the others.

I look forward to hearing more about your progress.

Stay strong. Your family needs you!

HM64


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## Hicks

You are putting too much pressure on yourself to "forgive".

If you are doing it for the sake of your kids, then your goal is to give your kids a happy upbringing. Do that. Forgiving your wife is a a separate issue.


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## Rand OmGuy

Hicks said:


> You are putting too much pressure on yourself to "forgive".
> 
> If you are doing it for the sake of your kids, then your goal is to give your kids a happy upbringing. Do that. Forgiving your wife is a a separate issue.


I am forgiving her for the sake of all of us. I won't be able to forget. But i also need to be able to not resent her. My oppinion is forgiveness is not conditional. i don't have to forgive her, i want to and truly do. 

I'm not sure what hurts more, that she cheated or the fact of who she cheated with. Honestly if it was someone i didn't know, i would be able to process and heal easier...i think. 

However, i struggle with the fact that by forgiving her, she is almost getting a free pass and i carry the pain and i pay the price for her "mistake". But i guess that is my choice to do so. I've been through a lot in my life (prostitue heroin addict mother that abondoned me in a hotel room at 6 yrs old with my 4 yr old sister for 2 weeks before the cops found us and never saw her again and a drunk father who passed away a month before i found out about my wife's infidelity) but none of that compares to the pain i feel now


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## bryanp

Good luck to you. It sounds like you are on the right path.


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## Hicks

I would look at it this way.

You can make up your mind to continue to participte in your marriage and keep your family together.

Forgiveness is a process and takes time, and is not something you must do in advance to focus on your marriage. Forgiveness is somethign your wife will EARN FROM YOU over time.

Your struggle is trying to give something that is not earned.


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## LostViking

verpin zal said:


> Believe me when I say that it wasn't just once.
> 
> Source: experience, which one's details I don't wish to disclose at this time.
> 
> Just believe me.


_Posted via Mobile Device_

I agree with this. Your wife is lying.


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## tom67

polygraph time for some closure jmo.


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## lisab0105

Rand OmGuy said:


> I truly in my heart know she has been honest with me about everything that happened, when it happened and how many times. I have spent the better part of the last 3 weeks checking emails, phone records, texts talking to friends within our circles and there is NOTHING that is out of the oridnary. I went back at looked at our paper cell phone bills from 2 years ago and the ONLY communication via cell phone between the former friend and my wife was on that day. It also makes sense know why she acted so hateful towards him when he was over hanging out with us and other friends. Could have been an act, if so, she played it well.
> 
> The mood changes over the past 2 years were a red flag but i don't beleive the mood had anything to do with an ongiong and continued affair. As i started to make changes in how i was treating her and how i participated in the family, i think she felt worse and more guilty as time went along and the better i got the worse she felt. She is a genuine kind hearted person and she knew what she did would crush me and i think she was hoping i would never find out and we would live happily ever after without me knowing.
> 
> I have given her the oppurtunity to come clean about anything else and told her that was her only oppurtunity and if i found out later, regardless on whether it is a week from now or 5 years from now, we will be done.
> 
> Honestly, we are closer now than we have ever been. It doesn't make much sense but we are. We never communicated very well, she never seemed to put much effort into working on our marriage when we had problems, we pretty much co-existed for a long time. There was also love, we didn't yell and scream and fight, we never have fought about money.
> 
> Now we have long conversations about very deep and intimate things as well as light casual conversations. We open up to each other about everything. We tell eachother things we would have kept to ourselves not too long ago. I am still in pain, i will be for some time. But by forgiving her, i have to forgive completely. We can't move forward if we are constantly looking back, we can't move forward if i hold contemp towards her. I had a long conversation about trust with her last night. I told her that i trust her, but not unconditionally. She has to earn my full trust again. I will stay guarded and stay vigilant and will continue to monitor communication and i have a couple of neighbors keeping an eye on activity around the house for me. She is a good person, a SPECTACULAR mom, a full time student working very hard to better our lives and she made a terrible mistake. The fact is, 2 years ago, if i was in a situation of temptation i don't know if i could have resisted. I am not a cheater, i don't believe in it, but humans make human mistakes.
> 
> Leaving her and breaking up our family with not solve anything or make anything better. I am struggling with my confidence and self worth right now, but i am not going to let my pride causing my children pain.
> 
> I know there is no excuse for cheating, EVER. I will not allow her to make excuses. She has owned up to doing a very selfish and hurtful thing. I was very worried that she was only upset that i found out and not upset about what she did. Howver, i walked in on her in the bath a few days ago and she was sobbing almost uncontrollably. When i asked her why she was crying (fully expecting another revelation) she responded..."i feel so terrible. I risked ruining our family, i broke up your friendship with &*%$ and worst of all i broke my vows to you. i commited a cardinal sin" She was almost beside her self with guilt and remorse. I reminded her that we also had vows that said for better or for worse.


I was of the same mindset as you for the first 4 months after it happened...1 year, 10 months 7 days later staying has been the hardest thing and time does NOT heal all wounds. In fact it only makes it worse.


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## Rand OmGuy

well i hope the people saying that it won't /cant work or that she is not telling the whole truth are wrong. The genuine remorse i see in her, the fact she has never tried to justify it, make excuses and the fact that she has accepted full responsibility for what she did gives me hope. I have always tried to see the good in people and trust unconditionally. I believe that if you walk around focused on the evil people are capable of, the worl would be a dark sad place.


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## MovingAhead

Rand,

Everyone is different, but cheaters seem to really follow the same pattern. To make it simple, you are not special and neither is your case so most likely she did what most other cheaters did and is NOT telling you the complete truth.

That being said, if you can make your marriage work, then I wish you all the best but it will take being transparent and open. Trust but verify. Forgiveness is key, and don't hang onto being angry or bitter let that go or it will bring you down. I wish you the best of luck and I am truly sorry you are here.


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## LostViking

Can you get rid of the kids for a few hours, sit her down at a table and tell her that for the next hour she must tell you everything and answer every question you have about her affair? Can you tell her that this will be the last time you ever ask her to come completely clean, and if she does not, and you find out one year, five years, ten years down the road from someone else that it was more than once, she is gone and you will divorce her? 

I think if you sit her down and tell her she has safe passage to come clean about everything, she will open up and tell you the truth. But you have to be willing to follow through with your ultimatum.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rand OmGuy

LostViking said:


> Can you get rid of the kids for a few hours, sit her down at a table and tell her that for the next hour she must tell you everything and answer every question you have about her affair? Can you tell her that this will be the last time you ever ask her to come completely clean, and if she does not, and you find out one year, five years, ten years down the road from someone else that it was more than once, she is gone and you will divorce her?
> 
> I think if you sit her down and tell her she has safe passage to come clean about everything, she will open up and tell you the truth. But you have to be willing to follow through with your ultimatum.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We did this last night actually. She answered every question i had without hesitation and with sincere disaapointment and disgust in herself. I hope that it's a step in the right direction


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## MattMatt

Rand OmGuy said:


> We did this last night actually. She answered every question i had without hesitation and with sincere disaapointment and disgust in herself. I hope that it's a step in the right direction


I hope you can both get through this. It'll not be easy, so you might need support from counsellors; etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## InlandTXMM

Rand I am a BS out almost 10 months from my wife's EA (she swears it was not a PA but I will never be able to know for sure). I can tell you that, like you, I have chosen to forgive her even though all I have to work with is the "good word" of a woman I've learned isn't as good as I believed. 

It's hard. You can do it, but never promise her you won't bring it up or lash out. You will. The most surprising things will trigger you and this will be as raw and painful as the day you found out. For a while even her text message ring tone caused me a pang of panic. Every single time it went off.

Not being able to completely verify her story has been the hardest part. That's why I said you absolutely MUST be able to put together the full story, or your mind will haunt you with the darkest imaginings.

My wife is so remorseful, even seeing me struggle with it makes her cry. I tell her I try not to let it affect me, and over time, it's happening less and less, but it will surface over and over again. 

Like you, this situation has actually improved our marriage in many ways. We also talk much more than before. We share everything. She never felt okay to show me all of her "dark side" before now, because she somehow thought it would disappoint me. There are things we kept from each other (nothing serious, just quirks and preferences, dreams for the future, etc.) that we have now shared. We have a 5-year life plan we are working on together. It is, as D1ckens would have said, "the best of times and the worst of times."

It sounds like, as long as you have the full truth, you will be able to let this go. The mistake you will make is believing that you can "go back" to the marriage you had. That relationship is dead and gone, and she killed it.

You will never trust her like you once did - I still get the urge to look at the cell phone records and check her email - but you can learn to MOSTLY trust her. She will never be that perfect angel again. She will be less than the woman you idealize. Tarnished. Damaged. But now at least you are seeing her as a real human being.

I really do wish you well!


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## TRy

Rand OmGuy said:


> well i hope the people saying that it won't /cant work or that she is not telling the whole truth are wrong. The genuine remorse i see in her, the fact she has never tried to justify it, make excuses and the fact that she has accepted full responsibility for what she did gives me hope. I have always tried to see the good in people and trust unconditionally. I believe that if you walk around focused on the evil people are capable of, the worl would be a dark sad place.


 People do not value things when they are given at a cheap cost. It is human nature. By forgiving too fast and too easy, it will not be valued as much as it should be. Why is it important that she value it? Because her valuing it is what will make her less likely to cheat again.

Right now the normal reaction is for both of you to want to rug sweep and to go on with life as if it did not happen. You want to forgive and forget and make believe that your marraige can go back to the way it was before. It can never go back to the marraige that it was before. That old marraige is dead. You are now starting a new marraige, that hopefully will be a good one. But for the new marriage to work it must be based on accepting the honest fact that you feel hurt and betrayed and will need time to heal from that. By bottling these normal feelings up now. You are only delaying the real beginning of your new marraige. I am not saying that you beat her over the head and abuse her over the affair. I am just saying that you need time to express your feelings and to heal. Take that time now and you will be able to really move on later. Hold it back now, and you will be in a false reconciliation that will blow up later. Your wife appears remorseful. That is a good thing. Now is a good time to deal with your feelings with her at your side.

You have a right to be human. You have a right to feel angry and hurt. Get it out of your system in a loving way now, rather than in a hateful way later when it pops up. If you do not allow yourself to address your anger now, you may grow to feel nothing for your wife and to disconnect from your marraige. For it to work long term, this new start must be based on the reality of what has happened and how it impacts you as a human.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Rand OmGuy said:


> well i hope the people saying that it won't /cant work or that she is not telling the whole truth are wrong. The genuine remorse i see in her, the fact she has never tried to justify it, make excuses and the fact that she has accepted full responsibility for what she did gives me hope. I have always tried to see the good in people and trust unconditionally. I believe that if you walk around focused on the evil people are capable of, the worl would be a dark sad place.


Have hope, but don't be blind.


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## Stonewall

Rand OmGuy said:


> well i hope the people saying that it won't /cant work or that she is not telling the whole truth are wrong. The genuine remorse i see in her, the fact she has never tried to justify it, make excuses and the fact that she has accepted full responsibility for what she did gives me hope. I have always tried to see the good in people and trust unconditionally. I believe that if you walk around focused on the evil people are capable of, the worl would be a dark sad place.


It can work if she is truly remorseful and totally transparent from now own. You will have to trust but verify for a long time to come and she will have to content for you to do so. That being said, it will always be painful for the rest of your life. The mind movies will sometimes get the best of you. You will never forget and you will be forever jaded by this but it can work if she understands all these things and never gets an attitude because of your distrust, anger, periods of depression and feelings of inadequacy. She did it now she must own it.


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## WorkingOnMe

Have you offered her any consequences? Without consequences she will eventually lose respect and will be vulnerable to cheating again.


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## HappyHubby

WorkingOnMe said:


> Have you offered her any consequences? Without consequences she will eventually lose respect and will be vulnerable to cheating again.


Which is why I suggested leaving for a month to "think things over". You are not leaving or divorcing her, you are making her think you might. You might think this seems like a stupid game but it's not.

I can't see any other significant and appropriate consequence that could be provided. You can know the whole time that you will return but if she fears that maybe you won't, she will have been dealt some measure of justice and perhaps have the true realization that her actions might ACTUALLY have the one consequence she fears most: divorce. 

I also don't think her crying in the bathtub is much of a consequence. I think the consequence has to be provided from you so that you have self respect and she respects you.

If not my suggestion, how will you provide the necessary consequences so that you can move forward without the feeling of absolute injustice?


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## LetDownNTX

Rand OmGuy said:


> well i hope the people saying that it won't /cant work or that she is not telling the whole truth are wrong. The genuine remorse i see in her, the fact she has never tried to justify it, make excuses and the fact that she has accepted full responsibility for what she did gives me hope. I have always tried to see the good in people and trust unconditionally. I believe that if you walk around focused on the evil people are capable of, the worl would be a dark sad place.


I dont know your wife so this is just a basic observation. You say she doesnt open up to people, she is reserved, etc. IF she wanted to save her marriage and do whatever it took for YOU to get past it (because it is all about YOU right now) then she would suck it up, put on her big girl panties and go to MC, IC, whatever it takes.

She made the decisions that ruined your marriage, now SHE has to work hard at making that right again! Majority of the burden should fall on her!

You said that she only texted him the one day that she admitted to having sex with him? So he just texted her (or vice versa) that day and they made arrangements to betray you on a random whim? Im not really buying that but then again, I dont have to buy it, you do! Do you?

I have been in R for 3 years with my WH.....can it work?...YES. Is it good? Not always. Its difficult every day of the week for one reason or another. There is always this big elephant in the room that you have to walk around. And you will never trust her again, especially around your friends....IT IS A LIFE SENTENCE!!


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## Machiavelli

Whip Morgan said:


> Please don't ignore what everyone has already stated: there are more secrets you don't know about. Hard to believe it was only one time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. Minimization, minimization, minimization.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

You seem to want us to tell you that if you don't get divoreced, that everything willl be allright. Well, we don't know that, you don't know that. It might, it might not. What we do know is that the majority of people that come here saying that their spouse cheated with a best freind never get the whole truth in one shot. The WS tells themselves that the whole truth would just hurt to much. Then, a year later, 5 years later, it happens, some more comes out. A freind of a freind, someone that gets p1ssed it the WS and talks, even the WS them selves accidentaly, or by guilt devulge more.

Then you are right back where you were on DDay1. I'm not saying that your Wife hasn't given you 100% of the truth, but it would be one of the exceptions. The rule is that they never plan on telling you/us everthing. For different reasons, but we'll never know. You hope that you never know.

I wrote this not to gat you wondering if your wife has told you the truth, or not. I just want you to think about forgiving. You're forgiving her for what she's done, what she's told you she's done. In a few years time, if you did find out there was more to it - Would you forgive her again?

Make sure you know what you are forgiving her for. I'm not saying this to rain on you parade. I just want you to think, if you forgive her and did find out years from now there was more, what are you going to do?...


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## sandc

Forgiveness does not mean lack of consequences. I agree that there should be some consequences for her.

And have a polygraph done. There have been parking lot confessions that revealed far more than all the truth the bs had already been told.


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## JCD

So...back when I was a newish driver, dad wanted me to run an errand and gave me the keys to his car. It was a stick. In MY car, I kept the car in neutral and set the parking brake. Dad...leaves his car in gear. So I start the bastard and it LURCHES backwards and hits the the car of that shrew of a woman neighbor. Sis suggested I drive away. Dad had been fighting and fussing with this lady since he moved in...and I had just hit her car!

I walked in...and I told him everything.

This little anecdote is to show you that your attitude and your message both need a touch of refinement.

You say you trust her...but not completely. I would suggest that you tell her (truthfully) that you DON'T trust her! Why should you? Do you KNOW what else she did? No. She has a long history of honesty, but one lie blows all of that out of the water...particularly big ones like this.

After she flirted and texted and boned this guy...she says she realized her mistake...and she drove away. She let you shake his hand and let him look you in the eye and disrespect you for 2 years. The sex was (sort of) a mistake. The later is not. The later is a PLAN.

BUT...you also tell her that she can EARN trust back. So she isn't faced with a hopeless situation, but she understands that the actions you take from here are of her own creation. No privacy.

I would strongly suggest that whatever you HAVE been doing to be a better father, husband, provider etc you continue to do or redouble.

Why? First, you are one drunken cofession or a text message away from learning more bad news. Heartbreaking bad news. So you need to be ready to be the best man you can be...for someone else.

Two, it sort of forces you to be on the straight and narrow wthout lashing out at her.

Third...it twists the knife a little deeper.

I would definetly tell her that you are staying for the children, not her. She has done a very unloving thing, mostly because of the cover up. She choose sides and it wasn't yours.

I would make HER call your 'best friend's' wife or girlfriend and confess her actions. Even if the girlfriend is of recent vintage, she needs to know what kind of a man she is: one who will fvck someone's wife and shake his hand and drink his beer afterwards.

You want to make things all better as quickly as possible. I think this is idiotic. You don't want to be where you are, but clicking your heels together three times and saying "there's no place like home' isn't going to cut it.

As stated by LetdownNTX, she loses her privacy and she gets to hang out her dirty laundry to SOMEONE. Most women don't suddenly decide when they are sitting with a FRIEND to suddenly lose her blouse and panties in the living room.

There was a lead up and there were choices made. She better address them or how can you be sure she won't do it again. Because of the HUGE price she is paying by...um...um...um...

Seeing you be sad.

That has a shelf life. Lots of stories here about recidivism when all the wayward paid was 'seeing him look sad'. People grow calloused.


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## Rand OmGuy

I appreciate everyone's input and insight. I understand what you are saying. I have told her that i don't trust her and that she will have to not only earn my trust back, but she will have to prove to me everyday that she wants the marriage to work. She has to do the heavy lifting to repair this, not me. I sat down with her and had a very long conversation and in that conversation i gave her the oppurtunity to come clean about anything else. I explained it was a safe passage situation and that this was her ONE AND ONLY chance to confess to anything else no matter hoe small it seemed...She very sincerely professed that there was nothing else and no other time. I made it very clear that it was the only oppurtunity she had. I told her that if something else came out whether from her or someone else it was over, i would file for divorce petition for for majority custody of our children and she would be out of the house. It doesn't matter if it came out a week from now, a year from now or 5 years from now. I said it with complete sincerety and i meant every word of it. i told her that she is not allowed to delete and call records or texts and i would compare the phone bill to the texts and calls on her phone. If there was a text or call on the bill that wasn't on her phone, then she was out. 

I know i painted a picture of saint like forgiveness but i remain guarded and in reality. I know the likelyhood of undisclosed indiscretions and the possibility of repeat offenses in the future. She knows the consequences and she has free will. if she does it again. we're done.

I did get more info on how things happened that day. I didn't ask about details until now, really because i didn't want to know. But i'll explain below.

The "friend" lived across the street from us with his parents for during that time as his girlfriend was in jail and he had to move back from home. He was out of work at the time and my wife was in between semesters at school. Apparently he would walk across the street to smoke a ciggarette with my wife on the front porch and chat. She told me about this everytime he came over. I didn't think much of it then. He was out screweing everything he could while is girl was locked up. I knew he was a dog, but i never crossed my mind that he would think about touching my wife. My wife even admitted to me that she thought he was attractive,. It didn't bother me as i'm really not a jealous person. You would have to see me to understand, but i'm not the kind of guy you mess with like that. I didn't figure he would risk his health to do that. Apparently, the chats became a little flirtacious. He knew the problems we were having in our marriage as i had confided in him. He and i were close like brothers. So on DDay, he sent her a text asking if she wanted to come sit on the porch and have a smoke. By this point he was being very flirtacious as was she. He was telling her how sexy she was, how he liked her big tits and how i was lucky to be able to have sex with her. All things i wasn't doing at the time and my wife said he made her feel good by telling her all those things. He was giving her the attention i wasn't at the time. He asked her if she had any coffee brewed and she said yes. He asked if he could come in and get a cup and she agreed. They sat on teh couch (which is now gone from the house) and he made a move on her and she didn't stop him. There wasn't much kissing and it went straight to sex. It last about 10 minutes and he they quit, both agreeing the couldn't do it. She said he could barely get it up and she wasn't turned on. In seperate conversations with both of them, neither knowing what the other had already told me both confirmed this. He left and she got into the bath and cried. She started writing me a letter telling me what happened, but she never finished it or gave it to me. But she did show it to me, she had it hidden in her dresser for 2 years. 

I talked to both of them and never got any variance from one story to the other. He admitted to making a move on her. he couldn't explain why, he said she was attractive and he wasn't thinking. (which he is still a dirtbag piece of **** in my eyes)

He moved out of his parents house a week later and back in with his now ex-girlfriend 2 hours a way. I checked phone records from now all the way back to then and there was never another call or text between them. I checked all of the other numbers and called the ones i didn't recognize (those turned out to be girls my wife is in school with)

So at this point i have no evidence nor any suspicion that it happened again with him or anyone else. I can never be 100% sure but i guess i'll have to go on little bit of faith. 

I told her that my biggest problem with her and the whole situation is that she could lie to me like that for 2 years, that she could look me in the eye and tell me she loves me, that she could make love to me knowing what she did. But i guess everyday that went by, it probably got harder and harder to find a way to tell me. She told me that she thought about telling me a number of times, but she was afriad i would leave her. She said that she got to the point that she hoped i would never find out and that it would be like a bad dream. 

I'm glad i did find out. I'm glad i found out when i did. If i would have found out right after it happened, i would have left her. I am in a different place mentally and in maturity than i was then. I'm glad that she isn't carrying this guilt anymore. She seems like a whole new person without the weight of this secret on her shoulders. She is still scared that i might leave her and i did tell her that i am not leaving her right now, but if she backtracks at all from her efforts to fix this marriage, i might not be able to say the same thing then. 

I hope this gives a little more insight into why i am where i am in the reconciliation stages already. I really look forward to getting some feedback on this.


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## Suspecting

I think your wife is still lying. They both agreed what to say to you so of course they are telling the same story. They have most likely had sex multiple times but you will never know unless she tells the truth.


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## Rand OmGuy

it is very hard to be so vulnerable and put my self out there with the risk to be hurt again. I love my wife with all of my heart and soul. She is the reason that i am the man i am today. when i met her 13 years ago, i was strung out on drugs and fresh out of prison. She was the preppy straight A's, southern Belle, valedictorian and soccer star from a good family. She gave me a reason to be a beeter man and strighten out. If it wasn't for her, i'd be dead or in prison. Since i met her, i have maintned a very good paying job, bought a 4 bedroom house at 28 years old and have provided everything for my family while she has been a full time Mom and now returning for her bachelors degree. My point is, despite what i did in my past, she saw the good inside of me and loved me for who i was. I feel almost obligated to do the same. Sometimes i think i have blinders on and see only how she hurt me, and i'm not seeing the good inside of her and realizing that she made a terrible mistake and she needs me for support and guidance the way i needed her back then. I always felt that God put her into my life to show me the error of my ways and bring me to the good. Now i realize God put us into eachothers lives to save eachother. I am willing to take the risk of being hurt again because she is worth it. She really is a good person inside despite the bad thing that she did. I will bear the pain and suffering as needed to protect my kids from pain and suffering and loss.


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## Shaggy

Most of the story sounds plausible except him not getting it up. They've had 2 years to get their story synchronized so don't put so much faith in them telling you the same story. 

Not to throw any blame your way, but really you need a better standard for who you choose as a friend. A looser living across the street with his mom while his gf is in jail and he is out shagging anything that moves? Do not have looser lowlifes as friends, and especially do not invite them to be around your wife. Because lowlifes pull crap just like you are dealing with now.


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## Rand OmGuy

Suspecting said:


> I think your wife is still lying. They both agreed what to say to you so of course they are telling the same story. They have most likely had sex multiple times but you will never know unless she tells the truth.


I disagree. They could have worked up a story, sure. But i poised questions with half truths to try to trip them up, playing one against the other. 

I know people who have been hurt badly are skeptical, but i know my wife. I can tell when she is lyling or hiding something. I've known for 2 years that she was hiding something, i just couldn't find the proof.


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## Shaggy

You both should also quit smoking. It gives lowlifes excuses for hanging with your wife, and it's causing real damage to the health of you and your kids.


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## WorkingOnMe

Wait. She goes to a college campus everyday?


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## Suspecting

Rand OmGuy said:


> I disagree. They could have worked up a story, sure. But i poised questions with half truths to try to trip them up, playing one against the other.


What do you mean by this? It's not hard to make up a story they both tell you. They agreed when they met what to tell if they get caught. Then just stick to the original story and you will get nothing out of them.


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## Kallan Pavithran

why cant you ask for polygraph?


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## Rosemary's Granddaughter

Rand OmGuy said:


> I did get more info on how things happened that day. I didn't ask about details until now, really because i didn't want to know. But i'll explain below.





Rand OmGuy said:


> I talked to both of them and never got any variance from one story to the other. He admitted to making a move on her. he couldn't explain why, he said she was attractive and he wasn't thinking. (which he is still a dirtbag piece of **** in my eyes)
> 
> He moved out of his parents house a week later and back in with his now ex-girlfriend 2 hours a way. I checked phone records from now all the way back to then and there was never another call or text between them. I checked all of the other numbers and called the ones i didn't recognize (those turned out to be girls my wife is in school with)


This is confusing--you JUST NOW asked for more details, but when you first found out, their stories "matched"? How is this possible, when you didn't have all of the details?


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## mahike

A's are like icebergs you can only see a piece of it. A WS usually only tell you what they have too. If you are OK with that not a problem. I really think the two of you need to be in MC before you take the attitude of lets just move on.

It seems to me like you would like to sweep this under the rug and move forward and that you cannot do.


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## Rand OmGuy

their stories of when it happened, how many times and circumstances matched when i first found out. That is all i asked...i really didn't want to get into details at that time


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Rand OmGuy said:


> I disagree. They could have worked up a story, sure. But i poised questions with half truths to try to trip them up, playing one against the other.
> 
> I know people who have been hurt badly are skeptical, *but i know my wife.* I can tell when she is lyling or hiding something. I've known for 2 years that she was hiding something, i just couldn't find the proof.


You THOUGHT you knew your wife. I honestly hope that she has told you everything. Though her and the OM did spent lot of time together. From whet I remember, they'd slept in the same house numerous times. They only had sex once and it was for 10 minutes... I do find this surprising, but it a possibility.

I hope for both your sake's that this the 100% truth. You gave her an out to tell you about anything else and she said that there wasn't anymore to tell. You both know what will happen if anything surfaces from this point on. It's really all up to her now. I hope she's up to the task, because after a year, or two of you verifying that she's still being true, she may start to resent it. I hope not. Time will tell.

I wish you both the good luck and fortune to get you through this. Take care.


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## Dunder

Are you serious??? Wtf are you talking about??? Marriage counseling?
Dump her without looking back. And say "thanks". To both of them. Say "thanks" to your ex-wife for helping you to get rid of POS "best friend" (who would sleep with friends wife? Only low life POS, not a man), and thanks to the POS "best friend" for helping to get rid of **** ex-wife. ****, yes. Who else would sleep with husbands friend?


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## Rand OmGuy

Okay. I have received some good insight, but a lot of negativity as well. Both are needed, i understand that. An action, no matter how bad, does not define a person. A person that kills an intruder in their home as self defense is not a murderer. Me serving time and paying the price for a poor decision does not make me a criminal. I am an upstanding, law abiding citizen now. 

Let me provide a little background on myself so you can understand my point of view. 

I was born to a heroin addict prostitue of a mother and a drunk father. They were only together for a couple of years when my Mom took off in the middle of the night from Colorado with me (6) and my sister (4) to Arizona. We were down there for a few months and i vididly remember watching my mom shoot heroin with her "boyfriends", have sex with them while we were in the room and sat and watched as her boyfriends beat my sister and I for ruining their high. We were living in a bi-weekly extended stay motel when my mom one day said she was going out and she'd be back in a while. That was the last time i saw her. According to what the neighbors told the police after we were found when the motel manager came looking for rent, they last saw my Mom approx 2 weeks before we were found and they had no idea we were in there. When we were found, all we had left was a stick of butter that we were eating. We were put into foster care for a couple of weeks until they found my grandmother who came down and took custody and we lived with her until we reached adulthood. 

I was estranged from my father until i was 13 and i broke contact with him again in my 20's and had only re-established communication with him last summer. He passed away 12/28/2012 unexpectedly. I won't soil his memory by going into his actions and decision when i was growing up. 

This all being said, do i have issues with abandonment? Sure. Fear of being alone? Sure. Do i understand how badly a broken home can affect and damage a child? ABSOLUTELY. 

I have a deeper appreciation for family, stability and general happiness that most people will never understand. A cheating spouse is a terrible thing, but to me, considering what i have been through in life, (much of which i can't ever talk about) there are much worse things. 

I am not minimizing what my wife has done. I am hurt, but i am strong and i believe in her and believe in our family. Please do not pass judgement on me for being so forgiving.


----------



## Rand OmGuy

Please don't take my previous post as being ungrateful for all of the advice and insight you have all provided. This has really helped my process and work though what's going on in my head. Knowing that i'm not alone in my suffering is very comforting. I just am on a different page than most.


----------



## BjornFree

Rand OmGuy said:


> I am not minimizing what my wife has done. I am hurt, but i am strong and i believe in her and believe in our family. Please do not pass judgement on me for being so forgiving.


The people on here talk from experience. Don't be quick to forgive. We're not trying to pass judgement on you, only trying to tell you that there's always more than meets the eye. Forgiveness at an early stage translates to rugsweeping. There have been many men and women who have fallen victim to false reconciliation. Don't be just another name on that list. For the marriage to be saved, she has to want it more than you and you have to be willing to walk away. 

Don't get caught up in the emotions. We have a tendency to remember all the good times and idolize the wayward spouse when the affair is exposed. Let your head lead you and not your heart. Good luck.


----------



## Suspecting

Rand OmGuy said:


> their stories of when it happened, how many times and circumstances matched when i first found out. That is all i asked...i really didn't want to get into details at that time


Did you ask details from your friend and did his detailed story match your wife's?


----------



## badmemory

Rand OmGuy said:


> Okay. I have received some good insight, but a lot of negativity as well. Both are needed, i understand that. An action, no matter how bad, does not define a person. A person that kills an intruder in their home as self defense is not a murderer. Me serving time and paying the price for a poor decision does not make me a criminal. I am an upstanding, law abiding citizen now.
> 
> Let me provide a little background on myself so you can understand my point of view.
> 
> I was born to a heroin addict prostitue of a mother and a drunk father. They were only together for a couple of years when my Mom took off in the middle of the night from Colorado with me (6) and my sister (4) to Arizona. We were down there for a few months and i vididly remember watching my mom shoot heroin with her "boyfriends", have sex with them while we were in the room and sat and watched as her boyfriends beat my sister and I for ruining their high. We were living in a bi-weekly extended stay motel when my mom one day said she was going out and she'd be back in a while. That was the last time i saw her. According to what the neighbors told the police after we were found when the motel manager came looking for rent, they last saw my Mom approx 2 weeks before we were found and they had no idea we were in there. When we were found, all we had left was a stick of butter that we were eating. We were put into foster care for a couple of weeks until they found my grandmother who came down and took custody and we lived with her until we reached adulthood.
> 
> I was estranged from my father until i was 13 and i broke contact with him again in my 20's and had only re-established communication with him last summer. He passed away 12/28/2012 unexpectedly. I won't soil his memory by going into his actions and decision when i was growing up.
> 
> This all being said, do i have issues with abandonment? Sure. Fear of being alone? Sure. Do i understand how badly a broken home can affect and damage a child? ABSOLUTELY.
> 
> I have a deeper appreciation for family, stability and general happiness that most people will never understand. A cheating spouse is a terrible thing, but to me, considering what i have been through in life, (much of which i can't ever talk about) there are much worse things.
> 
> I am not minimizing what my wife has done. I am hurt, but i am strong and i believe in her and believe in our family. Please do not pass judgement on me for being so forgiving.


That's a tragic story random. It certainly gives us perspective toward your mindset.

Look, there will always be people and posters, who feel infidelity shouldn't be forgiven. I used to be one of them; until it happened to me. 

From what you describe, I can understand why you'd want to reconcile. It would be hard to have find another poster who's been betrayed worse than I was (maybe theguy) and still attempted R. In the end, no matter how people will judge you for your decision, you need to do what's best for you.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here. Be selective in how you apply it, because no one can know all the nuances of your relationship. No one can judge your wife's remorse better than you.

That said, no one, not even you, will know if your wife will stray again. BS's like you and I, have to live with that possibility when we attempt R. But like me, you now have a better perspective on how remorseful behavior is demonstrated. Make sure you hold on to that expectation.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Not so random guy,

I am sorry to hear what you have been through.

Actions speak louder than words. You are the only one that knows your wife better than anyone. The members here can only offer an outside perspective along with experience that time and time again has shown the true nature of cheaters and it is very accurate (exceptions exist).

To address your statement about "actions do not define you", yes, you served your time and you are a law abiding citizen now, but you once were a criminal and you suffered and served the consequence.

Similarly, your wife is a cheater and must suffer consequences and must serve her sentence. 




Have you read this thread yet?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html


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## Rand OmGuy

Suspecting said:


> Did you ask details from your friend and did his detailed story match your wife's?


yes it did. he tried to justify what he did i and said he wanted to seek help because i wasn't the only one he did this too. He even admitted that he had a hard time staying aroused. Could be all lies. Either way he is definitely not a friend anymore, actually he never was considering what he did


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## Rand OmGuy

again. Thank you ALL for your advice and input. I cannot image going through what some of you have. I am glad i found a community like this and an outlet to talk to people that have gone through what i have. I can talk to anyone, including a therapist, but no one can give you advice or empathize with you unless they themselves have gone through it. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your genuine concern, interest and sincere advice. Even after i make it through this (hopefully with a very happy ending) i will remain on here as a supporter and poster to help others through their sad ordeals. I have had multiple emails and PM's from a number of members and it has been very helpful


----------



## carpenoctem

Rand OmGuy said:


> I was born to a heroin addict prostitue of a mother and a drunk father. They were only together for a couple of years when my Mom took off in the middle of the night from Colorado with me (6) and my sister (4) to Arizona. We were down there for a few months and i vididly remember watching my mom shoot heroin with her "boyfriends", have sex with them while we were in the room and sat and watched as her boyfriends beat my sister and I for ruining their high. We were living in a bi-weekly extended stay motel when my mom one day said she was going out and she'd be back in a while. That was the last time i saw her. According to what the neighbors told the police after we were found when the motel manager came looking for rent, they last saw my Mom approx 2 weeks before we were found and they had no idea we were in there. When we were found, all we had left was a stick of butter that we were eating. We were put into foster care for a couple of weeks until they found my grandmother who came down and took custody and we lived with her until we reached adulthood.
> 
> I have a deeper appreciation for family, stability and general happiness that most people will never understand.




You made me cry, Sir.
And I have been trying so hard to act Alpha, for a while now. Such a setback.


Does your wife know your life story?

*I hope your strength (the insight, maturity and forbearance derived from harsh life experiences) does not translate into a weakness, during Reconciliation (many WSs seem to turn the Reconciliation into a psychological tug-of-war, and only a strong-willed BS can pull it off optimally, balancing retribution with rebuilding).
*


But as you say, you do see true remorse, the first major ingredient for reconciliation.

Best of luck.


----------



## badbane

Rand OmGuy said:


> Sadly it did happen in our house. Thankfully not in our bed. I know that what she did should be unforgivable. I wouldn't be nearly as hurt if it was a random guy. Temptation and Oppurtunity was there and she didn't think about me at all. She didn't care what it was going to do to me until afterwards. We are all human and make human mistakes.
> 
> I just can't see making our elemtary age kids suffer and pay for her mistake. i don't take responsibility for her actions but i have some ownership in the things that led to that.
> 
> i just need to figure out how to cope with all of this and not lose our family. If i lose the kids and the house and everything we worked for, i will feel like their actions took over and controlled my life. I can't let that happen.


WAIT stop right there sir yes. you may have had some issues with your wife. But how long did the affair last. You sound like someone that has heard about one tenth of the truth. How long was the Affair? How far back did the Affair go? You don't have to have sex to have an Affair. For all you know they could have been having long term Emotional Affair right under your nose. Who told you you weren't affectionate? Your wife? Who very well could have been getting the affection she needed from your friend and not needing you?

You need to start asking some serious questions because if you don't this will eat you alive. You deserve the whole truth. Your wife is 100% responsible for what she did. Have you looked through the phone records, text messages, and emails to see if she has been doing this a long time? If this has been going on a long time you my friend might be dealing with some rewritten history on your wife's part. Because when people get involved in an Affair their reality is altered by it. Who they are as a person is altered by it.
Please before you just say this is horrible lets move past it. Please for your sake and your kids sake please find out exactly what you need to forgive your wife for first.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Cheaters minimize, as any guilty party does. Justify, minimize, hurry up and move on, get over it already, its been so long, I've already said I'm sorry what more do you want?


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## sandc

You are rushing to forgive. Don't do that. Listen to everyone here.  Make her face some consequences. You have been through enough in life. You don't need to go through a false R or find out she's cheating with someone else later.

You say you know your wife. Try not to take offense at this but obviously you don't know your wife. Dig deeper.


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## Rand OmGuy

Thank you sandc for your input. I am continuing to dig and stay vigilant. I am not going to go into R with blinders on. Like i had mentioned in earlier post, i told het i would be checking the phone bills and matching to the call and text log on her phone. If there is even one missing call or text, she's out. It's the best i can do for now....i have dug and prodded and spoken to everyone that knows any of us or knows people who knows us. No further evidence of anything else yet


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## sandc

Fair enough. Then relax for a while. But be prepared in a couple month's time to dig again.

Be upfront with you wife. Remind her of everything you've been through in life. If you haven't told her, tell her. Go into excruciating detail for her. Then tell her in excruciating detail what she did and how it affected you. She needs to feel the pain she caused you. She needs to understand why this isn't just sex. This is ripping apart a union of souls. She took a perfectly good marriage and killed it. Now SHE needs to rebuild, SHE needs to heal the marriage. She did this, she fixes it. Not you.

Again, not meaning to be harsh, just trying to be clear.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

What I fear for you not so random guy is that you choose to walk the never ending path of R, rug sweep, and have another DDAY, restarting all your emotions, practically back to square one, yet again bringing you into a better condition to understand the true nature of cheaters and their OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) which is common in addicts.

Do not rugsweep, try to call her bluff, file for d, schedule a poly, ask for a timeline, a hand written NC, full transparency THEN you may CONSIDER R.

If you have much faith in your wife that she is remorseful she will heed to your demands, easily, so fear not then ask EVEN though MAY know that she will obey anyway.
Remember, nice guys finish last.

Time will reveal the truth.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

sandc said:


> You are rushing to forgive. Don't do that. Listen to everyone here. Make her face some consequences. You have been through enough in life. You don't need to go through a false R or find out she's cheating with someone else later.
> 
> You say you know your wife. Try not to take offense at this but obviously you don't know your wife. Dig deeper.


Rushing to trust, a sure sign of rug sweeping.

OP, I do suggest you stick around and read lots of threads.


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## bfree

Quick comment about forgiveness. If you force forgiveness before you are ready you will resent her in time. If forgiveness it's not earned by her then it's not forgiveness but acceptance. Just food for thought.


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## Rand OmGuy

My wife is fully aware of everything in my childhood. She expressed remorse in that regard to, saying that she felt so terrible for doing what she did to me and hurting me specially considering all of the pain i went through growing up


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Rand OmGuy, I know alot of us are harping on whether your wife has told you everything. And for good reasons. I for one don't ever want to see you posting here in the future telling us that this was in fact the case and you've had a 2nd DDay.

You've made the decision to reconcile. I hope for your whole families sake that it's a true reconciliation and that this all becomes just a painful memory for you. There seems to be certain things we've come to expect a BS to do and a general order in which they do them. You have/are not doing what most of us have come to expect. We start posting to try to sway you our way and loose site of the fact that this isn't about us right now. It's about you.

You've made your decision. I hope it's the right decision. You know what you have to do from here on out. You know what your wife needs to do for you both to get through this now and for her to stay married to you in the future. Hopefully happally married.

If after some time, you come to realize the you can't continue to reconcile, or stay married to her - It's completely normal. It's not your fault, it's just the way you are feeling. I hope this works out for you, I really, really do.


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## Jonesey

Rand OmGuy said:


> I appreciate everyone's input and insight. I understand what you are saying. I have told her that i don't trust her and that she will have to not only earn my trust back, but she will have to prove to me everyday that she wants the marriage to work. She has to do the heavy lifting to repair this, not me. I sat down with her and had a very long conversation and in that conversation i gave her the oppurtunity to come clean about anything else. I explained it was a safe passage situation and that this was her ONE AND ONLY chance to confess to anything else no matter hoe small it seemed...She very sincerely professed that there was nothing else and no other time. I made it very clear that it was the only oppurtunity she had. I told her that if something else came out whether from her or someone else it was over, i would file for divorce petition for for majority custody of our children and she would be out of the house. It doesn't matter if it came out a week from now, a year from now or 5 years from now. I said it with complete sincerety and i meant every word of it. i told her that she is not allowed to delete and call records or texts and i would compare the phone bill to the texts and calls on her phone. If there was a text or call on the bill that wasn't on her phone, then she was out.
> 
> I know i painted a picture of saint like forgiveness but i remain guarded and in reality. I know the likelyhood of undisclosed indiscretions and the possibility of repeat offenses in the future. She knows the consequences and she has free will. if she does it again. we're done.
> 
> I did get more info on how things happened that day. I didn't ask about details until now, really because i didn't want to know. But i'll explain below.
> 
> The "friend" lived across the street from us with his parents for during that time as his girlfriend was in jail and he had to move back from home. He was out of work at the time and my wife was in between semesters at school. Apparently he would walk across the street to smoke a ciggarette with my wife on the front porch and chat. She told me about this everytime he came over. I didn't think much of it then. He was out screweing everything he could while is girl was locked up. I knew he was a dog, but i never crossed my mind that he would think about touching my wife. *My wife even admitted to me that she thought he was attractive,.* It didn't bother me as i'm really not a jealous person. You would have to see me to understand, but i'm not the kind of guy you mess with like that. I didn't figure he would risk his health to do that. Apparently,* the chats became a little flirtacious.* He knew the problems we were having in our marriage as i had confided in him. He and i were close like brothers. So on DDay, he sent her a text asking if she wanted to come sit on the porch and have a smoke. *By this point he was being very flirtacious as was she. *He was telling her how sexy she was, how he liked her big tits and how i was lucky to be able to have sex with her. All things i wasn't doing at the time and *my wife said he made her feel good by telling her all those things.* He was giving her the attention i wasn't at the time. He asked her if she had any coffee brewed and she said yes. He asked if he could come in and get a cup and she agreed. They sat on teh couch (which is now gone from the house) and he made a move on her and she didn't stop him. *There wasn't much kissing and it went straight to sex. It last about 10 minutes and he they quit*, *both agreeing the couldn't do it. She said he could barely get it up *Got to ask,how is that possible if you hardle can get it up? i Mean 10min * and she wasn't turned on.* In seperate conversations with both of them, neither knowing what the other had already told me both confirmed this. He left and she got into the bath and cried. She started writing me a letter telling me what happened, but she never finished it or gave it to me. But she did show it to me, she had it hidden in her dresser for 2 years.
> 
> I talked to both of them and never got any variance from one story to the other. He admitted to making a move on her. he couldn't explain why, he said she was attractive and he wasn't thinking. (which he is still a dirtbag piece of **** in my eyes)
> 
> He moved out of his parents house a week later and back in with his now ex-girlfriend 2 hours a way. *I checked phone records from now all the way back to then and there was never another call or text between them*. There was no need for them.They smoked every day at the porch...I checked all of the other numbers and called the ones i didn't recognize (those turned out to be girls my wife is in school with)
> 
> So at this point i have no evidence nor any suspicion that it happened again with him or anyone else. I can never be 100% sure but i guess i'll have to go on little bit of faith.
> 
> I told her that my biggest problem with her and the whole situation is that she could lie to me like that for 2 years, that she could look me in the eye and tell me she loves me, that she could make love to me knowing what she did. But i guess everyday that went by, it probably got harder and harder to find a way to tell me. She told me that she thought about telling me a number of times, but she was afriad i would leave her. She said that she got to the point that she hoped i would never find out and that it would be like a bad dream.
> 
> I'm glad i did find out. I'm glad i found out when i did. If i would have found out right after it happened, i would have left her. I am in a different place mentally and in maturity than i was then. I'm glad that she isn't carrying this guilt anymore. She seems like a whole new person without the weight of this secret on her shoulders. She is still scared that i might leave her and i did tell her that i am not leaving her right now, but if she backtracks at all from her efforts to fix this marriage, i might not be able to say the same thing then.
> 
> I hope this gives a little more insight into why i am where i am in the reconciliation stages already. I really look forward to getting some feedback on this.


*In seperate conversations with both of them, neither knowing what the other had already told me both 
confirmed this. *

Please man. Bear this in mind they had 2 years on them to get there story´s straight...

The bolded part does not make any sense to me at all..


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## omoplata

_"Sadly it did happen in our house. Thankfully not in our bed"

" It last about 10 minutes and he they quit, both agreeing the couldn't do it. She said he could barely get it up Got to ask,how is that possible if you hardle can get it up? i Mean 10min and she wasn't turned on"_

I'm sorry but this complete and utter horse****. "It only lasted 10 minutes and he couldn't get it up." "She wasn't turned on." Really?? GMAFB.


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## Phillip9669

My husband just cheated on me with his best friend's wife. I don't know how to let go of the pain or if I will ever be able to forgive/trust him. 

I am definitely heart broken and have been destroyed emotionally, but I believe that his best friend has it worse. He has not only lost his wife but also one of his best friends. 

I don't know if he or I will ever be able to overcome this situation, but I thought it might be good for you to know that you aren't alone in this particular instance. He and I have both gotten to the point of trying to figure out what we need to do, but are still relapsing into missing them and having clouded judgment because of it. 

If you do manage to figure out any advice please share and we will do the same. 

Stay strong… I hope it gets easier for you as I do for us.


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## the guy

What's your wife doing to affair proof the marriage?

Ones capacity to betray does not diminish a certain behavior...it doesn't go away with transparency!

Your wife needs to face this head on with you and work on preventive maintenance, or it will happen again 2 maybe 5 years from now. In some threads, WS unhealthy choices come back decades after their 1st affair.


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## Rand OmGuy

Good morning everyone. My wife and I made some progress this weekend and i will elaborate below. 

But first, there has been a lot of skeptisism regarding my wifes' account of DDay and suspicion that there was more to it or more occasions. 

I didn't go into detail regading how i found out about her cheating because quite frankly i felt guilty about snooping, but not anymore. 

As i had mentioned before, i had a gut feeling and suspected something had happened, but i didn't know with who or when. 

The day i found out, i logged into her Facebook account. First off, i don't have Facbook, never have and never will. She didn't know that i knew her password nor did she know i even knew how to navigate it.

Below is the transcript word for word of the private message that led to me confronting her. I will refer to the former "friend" as OM.

Wife Updates Status on 3/7/13 - "Cleaning House"

Private Message:

OM: Are you cleaning house naked?

Wife: No

OM: Too bad, i would come take a peek if you were.

OM: What, you're not going to answer me? Come on my big titty friend, you know you're a freak. 

Wife: Whatever

OM: I miss our playtime. Don't you?

OM: GUess you can't answer that, huh?

Wife: I don't want to talk about it

Om: Don't you wish we would have tried to do it again after that?

Wife: NO. I told you it was a mistake. Why do you think i always tried to go do something else or go to my parents when you came over to hang with "RandOmguy".

Om: Do you hate me now?

Wife: No. It just shouldn't have happened. I told you not to talk to me that way anymore. Do you want me to delete you from my friends list.

Om: No,damn. Okay, sorry. We're still friends though right?

Wife: I gotta get back to cleaning, i was just taking a break. Bye

Om: Bye

End of conversation. 

I printed this out and confronted my wife with it and that is when she came clean. This conversation is what gives me a little hope and faith that it was only a one time thing and something she regreted. 

This all being said, i took all of your comments and insight to heart. There was a lot of suspicion regarding their story of the actual sexual encounter. 

This weekend, with all of this on my mind, i sat down with my wife and we talked for about two hours. Talked about everything that led up to the PA and the lying and deceit for that moment until now. 

I asked her to give me a step by step of how that morning played out. Some of which i have posted already so i won't go into great detail on some of it. 

He had come over to have a smoke with her which was not uncommon, and he asked if she had any coffee and asked for some. (which is outlined more in detail in previous post) Once inside they we sitting on the couch and he was showing her pictures of the horses he had bought at auction the weekend before. After a few minutes he bagan to inquire about how she and i were doing and she said "so-so" but we were working on it. He started telling how sexy she was and how i didn't appreciate her and took her for granted. She said he leaned over and kissed her and she didn't resist. (it was no secret that she found him attractive) It progressed into foreplay and clothes removal. She said he performed oral sex on her and she did the same to him (WHICH BOTHERS ME A GREAT DEAL!!!) She adamently still says that he wasn't fully hard which i told her doesn't make a difference to me but for some reason she continues to mention it. I don't know if it is a way that she is minimizing it or if it bothers her that she couldn't get him aroused. Either way, she said that they bagn having sex on the couch and 10 mins into, he went very soft and they both agreed to just quit. She told him to leave and she went upstairs and got in the bath and cried. 

This actually helped me to process and continue the healing. I had all of these questions floating around that was really bothering me. Knowing the details, no matter how hard it was for me to handle and to hear, was critical for me to continue moving forward


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Rand OmGuy said:


> Good morning everyone. My wife and I made some progress this weekend and i will elaborate below.
> 
> But first, there has been a lot of skeptisism regarding my wifes' account of DDay and suspicion that there was more to it or more occasions.
> 
> I didn't go into detail regading how i found out about her cheating because quite frankly i felt guilty about snooping, but not anymore.
> 
> As i had mentioned before, i had a gut feeling and suspected something had happened, but i didn't know with who or when.
> 
> The day i found out, i logged into her Facebook account. First off, i don't have Facbook, never have and never will. She didn't know that i knew her password nor did she know i even knew how to navigate it.
> 
> Below is the transcript word for word of the private message that led to me confronting her. I will refer to the former "friend" as OM.
> 
> Wife Updates Status on 3/7/13 - "Cleaning House"
> 
> Private Message:
> 
> OM: Are you cleaning house naked?
> 
> Wife: No
> 
> OM: Too bad, i would come take a peek if you were.
> 
> OM: What, you're not going to answer me? Come on my big titty friend, you know you're a freak.
> 
> Wife: Whatever
> 
> OM: I miss our playtime. Don't you?
> 
> OM: GUess you can't answer that, huh?
> 
> Wife: I don't want to talk about it
> 
> Om: Don't you wish we would have tried to do it again after that?
> 
> Wife: NO. I told you it was a mistake. Why do you think i always tried to go do something else or go to my parents when you came over to hang with "RandOmguy".
> 
> Om: Do you hate me now?
> 
> Wife: No. It just shouldn't have happened. I told you not to talk to me that way anymore. Do you want me to delete you from my friends list.
> 
> Om: No,damn. Okay, sorry. We're still friends though right?
> 
> Wife: I gotta get back to cleaning, i was just taking a break. Bye
> 
> Om: Bye
> 
> End of conversation.
> 
> I printed this out and confronted my wife with it and that is when she came clean. This conversation is what gives me a little hope and faith that it was only a one time thing and something she regreted.
> 
> This all being said, i took all of your comments and insight to heart. There was a lot of suspicion regarding their story of the actual sexual encounter.
> 
> This weekend, with all of this on my mind, i sat down with my wife and we talked for about two hours. Talked about everything that led up to the PA and the lying and deceit for that moment until now.
> 
> I asked her to give me a step by step of how that morning played out. Some of which i have posted already so i won't go into great detail on some of it.
> 
> He had come over to have a smoke with her which was not uncommon, and he asked if she had any coffee and asked for some. (which is outlined more in detail in previous post) Once inside they we sitting on the couch and he was showing her pictures of the horses he had bought at auction the weekend before. After a few minutes he bagan to inquire about how she and i were doing and she said "so-so" but we were working on it. He started telling how sexy she was and how i didn't appreciate her and took her for granted. She said he leaned over and kissed her and she didn't resist. (it was no secret that she found him attractive) It progressed into foreplay and clothes removal. She said he performed oral sex on her and she did the same to him (WHICH BOTHERS ME A GREAT DEAL!!!) She adamently still says that he wasn't fully hard which i told her doesn't make a difference to me but for some reason she continues to mention it. I don't know if it is a way that she is minimizing it or if it bothers her that she couldn't get him aroused. Either way, she said that they bagn having sex on the couch and 10 mins into, he went very soft and they both agreed to just quit. She told him to leave and she went upstairs and got in the bath and cried.
> 
> This actually helped me to process and continue the healing. I had all of these questions floating around that was really bothering me. Knowing the details, no matter how hard it was for me to handle and to hear, was critical for me to continue moving forward


Well, after reading the private message I'm inclined to believe that they had sex that one time. It seems to me that your wife was very bothered by the fact that the OM never got fully erect and went limp during regular intercourse. This bothers me too. What if OM had gotten a normal erection? Would they have stopped when they did that day? Would they have continued the affair for another day and another?

Did she cry in the bathtub because of what she'd done, or because he couldn't get it hard/keep it hard? Most likely both, but I have to wonder how much of it was remorse for what she'd done to you vs. her damaged self esteem because his erection problem.

If he's of had a full bore woody and she had stopped him, then I'd say she regretted what she did and was 100% remorseful. Now I have to wonder how much of the regret and remorse is for herself. She can't feel good that this guy went limp on her, in her. Maybe this in it's self will be enough to steer her clear of doing this again. Time will tell.


----------



## tom67

I hope he is not your "best friend" anymore. No best friend would pull this crap jmo.


----------



## Rand OmGuy

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Well, after reading the private message I'm inclined to believe that they had sex that one time. It seems to me that your wife was very bothered by the fact that the OM never got fully erect and went limp during regular intercourse. This bothers me too. What if OM had gotten a normal erection? Would they have stopped when they did that day? Would they have continued the affair for another day and another?
> 
> Did she cry in the bathtub because of what she'd done, or because he couldn't get it hard/keep it hard? Most likely both, but I have to wonder how much of it was remorse for what she'd done to you vs. her damaged self esteem because his erection problem.
> 
> If he's of had a full bore woody and she had stopped him, then I'd say she regretted what she did and was 100% remorseful. Now I have to wonder how much of the regret and remorse is for herself. She can't feel good that this guy went limp on her, in her. Maybe this in it's self will be enough to steer her clear of doing this again. Time will tell.


Groundpounder, 
I has the same thoughts as you. According to her, when they started having sex, she immediately thought about stopping but i guess she didn't have the will power or was afraid on how he'd react. She said there was nothing enjoyable about it and she was hoping he would orgasm quickly and it would be over, but she said that ultimately she is very happy he didn't finish, but at the time she wanted it to be over. According to her, he was being very pushy. I can't answer for why she didn't just stop in the beginning, but there is nothing logical about cheating to me, so i don't know if i'll ever truly understand it. She admitted that she enjoyed the oral sex and the kissing, so i don't see why she would lie about not enjoying the sex. Maybe reality set in for both of them by that point. He expressed true remorse to me when i confronted him, i have told myself that he couldn't stay hard because he knew what he was doing was wrong. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. With the information that i have, i am going to go on a little faith. She has been nothing but thruthful and answered every question even though she knows some of the answers were going to hurt me or make me mad. 

I am hoping that my experience is one of the exceptions and it remains a one time experience. I will stay vigilant and guarding and will let the healing, forgiveness and reconciliation happen naturally. We have set a very good line of communication. Whenever i start feeling angry or upset about it, i tell her what i am feeling and we discuss and it helps me a lot. She does the same. I was outside washing my truck yesterday and she was upstairs cleaning the bathrooms. I came inside to get a drink and cool off. I went upstairs to see how she was coming along and she was sitting on the floor leaned up against the sink crying. 

She said that cleaning triggered feeling about how bad she felt when she saw the look in my eyes on the day out found out and she felt so guilty. 

You gotta understand, before all of this, i have only seen my wife cry 4 times in 13 years. The day her grandfather died. The day her best friend was murdered. And the days when our kids were born. She never showed much emotion and usually stays very stoic when she's upset. 

Only time will tell. I do love her with all of my heart and i know she is a good person inside. she made a terrible mistake and she needs to face the emotional issues that led to her doig this and she knows she has to work hard everyday to prove to me that she deserves my forgiveness and trust.

Thank you all for your support.


----------



## LostViking

In 1990, after catching my first wife kissing another man in a bar, then some weeks later catching her again talking to him on the phone, I had our six month old marriage anulled. At the time she defiantly refused to tell me if that was all that had happened. 

This year, almost 23 years later, we reconnected, had dinner with each other one night, and later over drinks she finally confessed that not only had she had sex with the OM several times, but that their relationship had started before our wedding. 

Then, even before our anullment was finaled, she went on and had sexual hook-ups with several more men. Since that time she has worked on her issues and I am no longer angry with her. I feel sorry for her. She never remarried and has spent the last two decades bouncing from one short term relationship to another. 

I do not believe your wife is being honest. I wated two decades for the truth. You should demand it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

Did you read the convo between the wife and OM ?


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> In 1990, after catching my first wife kissing another man in a bar, then some weeks later catching her again talking to him on the phone, I had our six month old marriage anulled. At the time she defiantly refused to tell me if that was all that had happened.
> 
> This year, almost 23 years later, we reconnected, had dinner with each other one night, and later over drinks she finally confessed that not only had she had sex with the OM several times, but that their relationship had started before our wedding.
> 
> Then, even before our anullment was finaled, she went on and had sexual hook-ups with several more men. Since that time she has worked on her issues and I am no longer angry with her. I feel sorry for her. She never remarried and has spent the last two decades bouncing from one short term relationship to another.
> 
> I do not believe your wife is being honest. I wated two decades for the truth. You should demand it now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You may want to polygraph
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

tom67 said:


> You may want to polygraph
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No no. I am not reuniting with her. I was going to, but after posting my situation in the General Relationship Section the good people here at TAM set me straight and I called it off. 

She was upset but we parted as friends. I no longer have any animosity towards her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Well, after reading the private message I'm inclined to believe that they had sex that one time. *It seems to me that your wife was very bothered by the fact that the OM never got fully erect and went limp during regular intercourse.* This bothers me too. What if OM had gotten a normal erection? Would they have stopped when they did that day? Would they have continued the affair for another day and another?
> 
> Did she cry in the bathtub because of what she'd done, or because he couldn't get it hard/keep it hard? Most likely both, but I have to wonder how much of it was remorse for what she'd done to you vs. her damaged self esteem because his erection problem.
> 
> If he's of had a full bore woody and she had stopped him, then I'd say she regretted what she did and was 100% remorseful. Now I have to wonder how much of the regret and remorse is for herself. She can't feel good that this guy went limp on her, in her. Maybe this in it's self will be enough to steer her clear of doing this again. Time will tell.


EXACTLY this. Your wife's feelings were hurt that she wasn't "hot" enough for him to get and keep it up. And yes, even limp sex is sex. The point is not that his **** wasn't hard, the point is that fvcker's limp **** was in your wife's mouth. If he had gotten hard, they would have consummated quickly and possibly frequently. She just got her feelings hurt and that's why she doesn't want to see him again. If he had finished her off, this would still be happening. Make no mistake.

THIS is what you have to work to repair. Not that it didn't fully happen, but that it was going to happen. There is ZERO difference between the two. The intent was there.


----------



## cj9947

Rand OmGuy said:


> Okay. I have received some good insight, but a lot of negativity as well. Both are needed, i understand that. An action, no matter how bad, does not define a person. A person that kills an intruder in their home as self defense is not a murderer. Me serving time and paying the price for a poor decision does not make me a criminal. I am an upstanding, law abiding citizen now.
> 
> Let me provide a little background on myself so you can understand my point of view.
> 
> I was born to a heroin addict prostitue of a mother and a drunk father. They were only together for a couple of years when my Mom took off in the middle of the night from Colorado with me (6) and my sister (4) to Arizona. We were down there for a few months and i vididly remember watching my mom shoot heroin with her "boyfriends", have sex with them while we were in the room and sat and watched as her boyfriends beat my sister and I for ruining their high. We were living in a bi-weekly extended stay motel when my mom one day said she was going out and she'd be back in a while. That was the last time i saw her. According to what the neighbors told the police after we were found when the motel manager came looking for rent, they last saw my Mom approx 2 weeks before we were found and they had no idea we were in there. When we were found, all we had left was a stick of butter that we were eating. We were put into foster care for a couple of weeks until they found my grandmother who came down and took custody and we lived with her until we reached adulthood.
> 
> I was estranged from my father until i was 13 and i broke contact with him again in my 20's and had only re-established communication with him last summer. He passed away 12/28/2012 unexpectedly. I won't soil his memory by going into his actions and decision when i was growing up.
> 
> This all being said, do i have issues with abandonment? Sure. Fear of being alone? Sure. Do i understand how badly a broken home can affect and damage a child? ABSOLUTELY.
> 
> I have a deeper appreciation for family, stability and general happiness that most people will never understand. A cheating spouse is a terrible thing, but to me, considering what i have been through in life, (much of which i can't ever talk about) there are much worse things.
> 
> I am not minimizing what my wife has done. I am hurt, but i am strong and i believe in her and believe in our family. Please do not pass judgement on me for being so forgiving.


Ram OmGuy;
I too was born with a "Boot" (as I refer to it) on my neck. It took me decades to over come it. But when you wrote, "A cheating spouse is a terrible thing, but to me, considering what i have been through in life, (much of which i can't ever talk about) there are much worse things." I nearly jumped out of my chair!!!!! I used to have the same attitude when bad things happened to me. This is a self defeating behavior. Guys like us should NOT use our past mistreatment as a standard of acceptable behavior. Judge your wife's behavior on the respect and love you deserve TODAY!!!! Look what you have over come...you are a miracle...that's how she should respect you.

Best wishes...


----------



## sandc

Rand OmGuy said:


> Groundpounder,
> I has the same thoughts as you. According to her, when they started having sex,* she immediately thought about stopping but i guess she didn't have the will power or was afraid on how he'd react. She said there was nothing enjoyable about it and she was hoping he would orgasm quickly and it would be over, but she said that ultimately she is very happy he didn't finish, but at the time she wanted it to be over.* According to her, he was being very pushy. I can't answer for why she didn't just stop in the beginning, but there is nothing logical about cheating to me, so i don't know if i'll ever truly understand it. She admitted that she enjoyed the oral sex and the kissing, so i don't see why she would lie about not enjoying the sex. Maybe reality set in for both of them by that point. He expressed true remorse to me when i confronted him, i have told myself that he couldn't stay hard because he knew what he was doing was wrong. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. With the information that i have, i am going to go on a little faith. She has been nothing but thruthful and answered every question even though she knows some of the answers were going to hurt me or make me mad.
> 
> I am hoping that my experience is one of the exceptions and it remains a one time experience. I will stay vigilant and guarding and will let the healing, forgiveness and reconciliation happen naturally. We have set a very good line of communication. Whenever i start feeling angry or upset about it, i tell her what i am feeling and we discuss and it helps me a lot. She does the same. I was outside washing my truck yesterday and she was upstairs cleaning the bathrooms. I came inside to get a drink and cool off. I went upstairs to see how she was coming along and she was sitting on the floor leaned up against the sink crying.
> 
> She said that cleaning triggered feeling about how bad she felt when she saw the look in my eyes on the day out found out and she felt so guilty.
> 
> You gotta understand, before all of this, i have only seen my wife cry 4 times in 13 years. The day her grandfather died. The day her best friend was murdered. And the days when our kids were born. She never showed much emotion and usually stays very stoic when she's upset.
> 
> Only time will tell. I do love her with all of my heart and i know she is a good person inside. she made a terrible mistake and she needs to face the emotional issues that led to her doig this and she knows she has to work hard everyday to prove to me that she deserves my forgiveness and trust.
> 
> Thank you all for your support.


Was she also hoping he didn't have any venereal diseases?

Okay, you seriously need to have your wife learn boundaries. When someone is doing something to you that you know is wrong you don't hope they stop, you stop them. She's not a kid anymore. She enjoyed the oral sex but not the actual sex because he didn't get hard. If he had gotten hard AND she had been truthful you would have found that she enjoyed that too.

I see you're ready to R and move on. That's fine and I support you. However, what are the consequences for this affair, short-lived as it was. Her crying and feeling bad isn't a consequence. That's normal human emotion. She should feel bad. But she should also face consequences for what she has done. What are they?


----------



## Rand OmGuy

SandC - There is no concequence strong enough or harsh enough to match what she did. There is no punishment to match or take away the pain. Punishment is not going to work and not going to undo or change anything. It will be destructive to our R process. I am the one that has made to the decision to R and to move towards forgiveness. I appreciate the cautionary tales and advise, but i don't need people trying to convince me not to do it


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Rand OmGuy said:


> SandC - There is no concequence strong enough or harsh enough to match what she did. There is no punishment to match or take away the pain. Punishment is not going to work and not going to undo or change anything. It will be destructive to our R process. I am the one that has made to the decision to R and to move towards forgiveness. I appreciate the cautionary tales and advise, but i don't need people trying to convince me not to do it


So what exactly is it you want to hear? I don't have a problem telling you what you want to hear.


----------



## TRy

Rand OmGuy said:


> SandC - There is no concequence strong enough or harsh enough to match what she did. There is no punishment to match or take away the pain. Punishment is not going to work and not going to undo or change anything. It will be destructive to our R process. I am the one that has made to the decision to R and to move towards forgiveness. I appreciate the cautionary tales and advise, but i don't need people trying to convince me not to do it


 There are consequences that are not destructive to the reconciliation process that you should consider. Her a just a couple to get you started.

1) No opposite sex friends (OSF). She can no longer have one on one friendships even with your friends or the husbands of friends or family. She can of course be friendly with them at gatherings, but nothing one on one, even by phone, text or email.

2) She agrees to full transparency, including all passwords, without complaint.

Reasonable consequences that are not punishments should be required. Not to do so now will cause you issues later.


----------



## bryanp

You do realize that she is in damage control. She is putting a nice little spin on it. The fact is that she even admitted she enjoyed the oral sex and and enjoyed the kissing but somehow did not care for the intercourse and of course he went limp. My guess is that she enjoyed everything and he did not go limp. All she had to say was NO but she did not because she did not want to.

I have a hunch that she engaged in this sexual romp because down deep she sees you as a good guy and that even if she was caught she knew down deep that you would forgive her anyway. In short, she had absolutely nothing to lose by cheating and betraying you with your best friend and also putting your health at risk for STD's. Am i wrong?

The fact that she would do this with your best friend clearly indicates that she was getting a perverse thrill inflecting this humiliation on you by doing this with your best friend. She knew the pain that this would inflict on you. How else could you perceive this?


----------



## Jonesey

Rand OmGuy said:


> Good morning everyone. My wife and I made some progress this weekend and i will elaborate below.
> 
> But first, there has been a lot of skeptisism regarding my wifes' account of DDay and suspicion that there was more to it or more occasions.
> 
> I didn't go into detail regading how i found out about her cheating because quite frankly i felt guilty about snooping, but not anymore.
> 
> As i had mentioned before, i had a gut feeling and suspected something had happened, but i didn't know with who or when.
> 
> The day i found out, i logged into her Facebook account. First off, i don't have Facbook, never have and never will. She didn't know that i knew her password nor did she know i even knew how to navigate it.
> 
> Below is the transcript word for word of the private message that led to me confronting her. I will refer to the former "friend" as OM.
> 
> Wife Updates Status on 3/7/13 - "Cleaning House"
> 
> Private Message:
> 
> OM: Are you cleaning house naked?
> 
> Wife: No
> 
> OM: Too bad, i would come take a peek if you were.
> 
> OM: What, you're not going to answer me? Come on my big titty friend, you know you're a freak.
> 
> Wife: Whatever
> 
> OM: I miss our playtime. Don't you?
> 
> OM: GUess you can't answer that, huh?
> 
> Wife: I don't want to talk about it
> 
> Om: Don't you wish we would have tried to do it again after that?
> 
> Wife: NO. I told you it was a mistake. Why do you think i always tried to go do something else or go to my parents when you came over to hang with "RandOmguy".
> 
> Om: Do you hate me now?
> 
> Wife: No. It just shouldn't have happened. I told you not to talk to me that way anymore. Do you want me to delete you from my friends list.
> 
> Om: No,damn. Okay, sorry. We're still friends though right?
> 
> Wife: I gotta get back to cleaning, i was just taking a break. Bye
> 
> Om: Bye
> 
> End of conversation.
> 
> I printed this out and confronted my wife with it and that is when she came clean. This conversation is what gives me a little hope and faith that it was only a one time thing and something she regreted.
> 
> This all being said, i took all of your comments and insight to heart. There was a lot of suspicion regarding their story of the actual sexual encounter.
> 
> This weekend, with all of this on my mind, i sat down with my wife and we talked for about two hours. Talked about everything that led up to the PA and the lying and deceit for that moment until now.
> 
> I asked her to give me a step by step of how that morning played out. Some of which i have posted already so i won't go into great detail on some of it.
> 
> He had come over to have a smoke with her which was not uncommon, and he asked if she had any coffee and asked for some. (which is outlined more in detail in previous post) Once inside they we sitting on the couch and he was showing her pictures of the horses he had bought at auction the weekend before. After a few minutes he bagan to inquire about how she and i were doing and she said "so-so" but we were working on it. He started telling how sexy she was and how i didn't appreciate her and took her for granted. She said he leaned over and kissed her and she didn't resist. (it was no secret that she found him attractive) It progressed into foreplay and clothes removal. She said he performed oral sex on her and she did the same to him (WHICH BOTHERS ME A GREAT DEAL!!!) She adamently still says that he wasn't fully hard which i told her doesn't make a difference to me but for some reason she continues to mention it. I don't know if it is a way that she is minimizing it or if it bothers her that she couldn't get him aroused. Either way, she said that they bagn having sex on the couch and 10 mins into, he went very soft and they both agreed to just quit. She told him to leave and she went upstairs and got in the bath and cried.
> 
> This actually helped me to process and continue the healing. I had all of these questions floating around that was really bothering me. Knowing the details, no matter how hard it was for me to handle and to hear, was critical for me to continue moving forward


Again this does not make any sense.. 
I mean if you "accidentally" bonked your best friend´s wife
is this a conversesion you would have two year´s later?? 

What prompted him to start that type of conversation,after all 24 month´s?? It does not sit right with me at all..


----------



## Jonesey

Rand OmGuy said:


> Groundpounder,
> I has the same thoughts as you. According to her, when they started having sex, *she immediately thought about stopping *Do you really believe? But oral seemed OK,right?that??but i guess *she didn't have the will power or was afraid on how he'd react. *No will power, Come on man.. First oral sex .Then she was afraid how he would react..A bridge fore sale comes to mind..*She said there was nothing enjoyable about it and she was hoping he would orgasm quickly and it would be over,* Remember the oral part?? I will stop here,before it going to sound to harsh.But i´m afraid there is more to this story,then you think..but she said that ultimately she is very happy he didn't finish, but at the time she wanted it to be over. According to her, he was being very pushy. I can't answer for why she didn't just stop in the beginning, but there is nothing logical about cheating to me, so i don't know if i'll ever truly understand it. She admitted that she enjoyed the oral sex and the kissing, so i don't see why she would lie about not enjoying the sex.Maybe reality set in for both of them by that point.*He expressed true remorse to me when i confronted him.*But two years later he try´s again??ReallyI have told myself that he couldn't stay hard because he knew what he was doing was wrong. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. With the information that i have, i am going to go on a little faith. She has been nothing but thruthful and answered every question even though she knows some of the answers were going to hurt me or make me mad.
> 
> I am hoping that my experience is one of the exceptions and it remains a one time experience. I will stay vigilant and guarding and will let the healing, forgiveness and reconciliation happen naturally. We have set a very good line of communication. Whenever i start feeling angry or upset about it, i tell her what i am feeling and we discuss and it helps me a lot. She does the same. I was outside washing my truck yesterday and she was upstairs cleaning the bathrooms. I came inside to get a drink and cool off. I went upstairs to see how she was coming along and she was sitting on the floor leaned up against the sink crying.
> 
> She said that cleaning triggered feeling about how bad she felt when she saw the look in my eyes on the day out found out and she felt so guilty.
> 
> You gotta understand, before all of this, i have only seen my wife cry 4 times in 13 years. The day her grandfather died. The day her best friend was murdered. And the days when our kids were born. She never showed much emotion and usually stays very stoic when she's upset.
> 
> Only time will tell. I do love her with all of my heart and i know she is a good person inside. she made a terrible mistake and she needs to face the emotional issues that led to her doig this and she knows she has to work hard everyday to prove to me that she deserves my forgiveness and trust.
> 
> Thank you all for your support.



Oh boy do i hope i am dead wrong..Or that i really need to change my name to Agent Mulder


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Rand OmGuy said:


> Groundpounder,
> I has the same thoughts as you. According to her, when they started having sex, she immediately thought about stopping but i guess she didn't have the will power or was afraid on how he'd react. She said there was nothing enjoyable about it and she was hoping he would orgasm quickly and it would be over, but she said that ultimately she is very happy he didn't finish, but at the time she wanted it to be over. According to her, he was being very pushy. I can't answer for why she didn't just stop in the beginning, but there is nothing logical about cheating to me, so i don't know if i'll ever truly understand it. She admitted that she enjoyed the oral sex and the kissing, so i don't see why she would lie about not enjoying the sex. Maybe reality set in for both of them by that point. He expressed true remorse to me when i confronted him, i have told myself that he couldn't stay hard because he knew what he was doing was wrong. Maybe that is just wishful thinking. With the information that i have, i am going to go on a little faith. She has been nothing but thruthful and answered every question even though she knows some of the answers were going to hurt me or make me mad. Take care.
> 
> I am hoping that my experience is one of the exceptions and it remains a one time experience. I will stay vigilant and guarding and will let the healing, forgiveness and reconciliation happen naturally. We have set a very good line of communication. Whenever i start feeling angry or upset about it, i tell her what i am feeling and we discuss and it helps me a lot. She does the same. I was outside washing my truck yesterday and she was upstairs cleaning the bathrooms. I came inside to get a drink and cool off. I went upstairs to see how she was coming along and she was sitting on the floor leaned up against the sink crying.
> 
> She said that cleaning triggered feeling about how bad she felt when she saw the look in my eyes on the day out found out and she felt so guilty.
> 
> You gotta understand, before all of this, i have only seen my wife cry 4 times in 13 years. The day her grandfather died. The day her best friend was murdered. And the days when our kids were born. She never showed much emotion and usually stays very stoic when she's upset.
> 
> Only time will tell. I do love her with all of my heart and i know she is a good person inside. she made a terrible mistake and she needs to face the emotional issues that led to her doig this and she knows she has to work hard everyday to prove to me that she deserves my forgiveness and trust.
> 
> Thank you all for your support.


What you are saying is plausible. Is it likely... not so sure.

If what she has told you is indeed what happened and how she felt, then I think your marriage could be saved.

Not to be vulgar, but I still have to wonder if this guy was packing Excalibur in his pants, would she have stopped after "10 minutes". She said she enjoyed the kissing. She said she enjoyed the oral. When they start having intercourse, she doesn't like it/now knows that it's wrong.

The guy went soft during sex. I'm not a women, but I'm pretty sure that this would be a traumatic event to a for one. A long, long time ago(I can't believe I'm about to write this), during my drinking day's, I had FAR too much Crown Royal one night. In the middle what would be best described as porn star sex, I had my one_and_only, to date, woody failure. The women I was with was mortified. She's laying there balling her eyes out and I'm the one with limp fireman. I was 27 at the time.

It took me months to "convince" her that it was the booze and had absolutely nothing to do with if I found her attractive, or not. My point is, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that the sex wouldn't have continued if the guy could made his fruit stand.

Well I do hope that this all works out for you. I've been where you are and I know it's tough to see the forest through all the trees. Just be vigil. The folks here have given you alot of great advice on setting boundaries and what you should be expecting from your wife from here on out. You don't want to be back her in a year, five years, or ever, other than to tell us that everything worked out and you're both doing fine.

We don't post all this doom and gloom to just scare you. There's a 1000 stories, just like yours being played out right now. The people here have seen how they unfolded and how they ended. There's alot commonality and parallels between them. What you've told us doesn't match some of this and you should be careful. Again, I hope you know the whole truth, just keep an open mind if you discover something that doesn't add up down the road.


----------



## Will_Kane

I believe you have the truth about one time. Whether the sexual encounter itself was 10 minutes and the other details are accurate, you may never know, but does it make that much difference?

Two things that really bother me, aside from the cheating itself:

1. She let you treat this guy as a friend for two(?) years, helping him out, listening to his bvllsh1t, while he sat there smirking (?) about what he had done behind your back with your wife. And probably exchanged glances with her and made comments to her whenever you left the room.

2. This guy still had the nerve to text after all this time and try to get her into the sack. While you are still friends with him (?). And even after that Facebook exchange, she says nothing to you. Was she that confident that the other guy would never mention it to you? Her knowing and letting you continue to interact, after this second attempt recently, adds another layer to the disrespect, in my opinion. Knocks your wife down even lower on the character scale, as well.


----------



## Jonesey

Will_Kane said:


> I believe you have the truth about one time. Whether the sexual encounter itself was 10 minutes and the other details are accurate, you may never know, but does it make that much difference?
> 
> Two things that really bother me, aside from the cheating itself:
> 
> 1. She let you treat this guy as a friend for two(?) years, helping him out, listening to his bvllsh1t, while he sat there smirking (?) about what he had done behind your back with your wife. And probably exchanged glances with her and made comments to her whenever you left the room.
> 
> 2. *This guy still had the nerve to text after all this time and try to get her into the sack*. While you are still friends with him (?). And even after that Facebook exchange, she says nothing to you. Was she that confident that the other guy would never mention it to you? Her knowing and letting you continue to interact, after this second attempt recently, adds another layer to the disrespect, in my opinion. Knocks your wife down even lower on the character scale, as well.


This is one of the reason´s this whole mess does not sit well with me. 
Her behaviour to word´s random guy for 2 year´s and so on.
And then out of the blue,this Facebook conversation happen´s

With that level of remorse she claim´s to have.You would think she would have been mortified, in a way that Random would have noticed something was way of...

plus her story of event´s it´s not really consistent either sadly


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## sandc

*Re: Re: Wife of 13 years cheated w/ my best friend*



Rand OmGuy said:


> SandC - There is no concequence strong enough or harsh enough to match what she did. There is no punishment to match or take away the pain. Punishment is not going to work and not going to undo or change anything. It will be destructive to our R process. I am the one that has made to the decision to R and to move towards forgiveness. I appreciate the cautionary tales and advise, but i don't need people trying to convince me not to do it


Okay did you NOT read that I said I supported your decision to R?


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## the guy

Rand OmGuy said:


> SandC - There is no concequence strong enough or harsh enough to match what she did. There is no punishment to match or take away the pain. Punishment is not going to work and not going to undo or change anything. It will be destructive to our R process. I am the one that has made to the decision to R and to move towards forgiveness. I appreciate the cautionary tales and advise, but i don't need people trying to convince me not to do it


Wait..What!

Not even a spanking?

Its been my experience that she....you need to give a good old fashion spanking.

I'm wired different the most but it helped me see my FWW submitt to this kind of consequence.

Its a long story but my old lady thought I was going to pop her again...instead I pulled her over my knee..

Mrs. the-guy hasn't said any thing but my shrink seems to think that it may have even been a cleansing for her. 

A step in helpng us both heal. A consequence she felt she diserved and a punishment I enjoyed giving.

The HB was off the charts when the spanking turned erotic.


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## mupostori

Forgive and forget , until recently I only understood the forgive part but the forget part , someone told me that letting go of the pain and emotions stirred up when reminded is the forget part 

in other words you will always remember but don't get angry/sad when triggered


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## pplwatching

In answer to the question of "how do I forgive", I believe that the answer is by first understanding that forgiveness is a process. It is not easy, and sometimes it requires a daily re-commitment to forgiveness.

There are two kinds of forgiveness. In the first kind we forgive not because of what it does for the other person, but because of what it does for us. It enables us, in time, to free ourselves from the bitterness and emotions that would otherwise overwhelm and exhaust us. Carrying resentment and bitterness around is poison in our souls.

In the second kind, we forgive out of love. We forgive because our love for another person is so great that we want both of us to be free of the pain and hurt that their transgression caused both of us. 

I don't know if you are a religious man, but if you are then it may be worth remembering that there is a spiritual component to your marriage. Part of what forgiving your wife out of love for her means is that you have an opportunity to rebuild your marriage, including spiritually. Forgiving her only for the sake of your children leaves a tear in the spiritual fabric of your marriage. It sounds like you not only want to keep your family together for the sake of your children, but that you want to forgive your wife because you love her. It won't be easy, and there will be days when old hurts feel like fresh wounds, but as you are discovering she can help you overcome the hurt and pain with the help of her love. 

I don't agree that she has to have consequences for what she did. In fact, when we are trying to forgive someone out of love for them, I believe that piling on consequences just makes the process of forgiveness that much harder. We can't say that we're forgiving someone because we love them while at the same time punishing them for what they did. She carries the guilt and pain for what she did. You carry the pain for what she did. Forgiveness allows both of you to heal.

Allow me to close by saying that I am not sure that you'll find what you are looking for here at TAM. Many people here project their own unresolved hurt and distrust into the responses posted here. There is a lot of good advice along the lines of "trust, but verify" but there is also a lot of skepticism, disbelief, and anger directed at their own wandering spouses but influencing responses to you. I hope that the nuggets of good advice are useful to you, but I fear that the negative responses may make it much more difficult for you to forgive your wife and to re-establish love and trust between the two of you.

All the best. I wish you peace and forgiveness.


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## Rand OmGuy

TRy said:


> There are consequences that are not destructive to the reconciliation process that you should consider. Her a just a couple to get you started.
> 
> 1) No opposite sex friends (OSF). She can no longer have one on one friendships even with your friends or the husbands of friends or family. She can of course be friendly with them at gatherings, but nothing one on one, even by phone, text or email.
> 
> 2) She agrees to full transparency, including all passwords, without complaint.
> 
> Reasonable consequences that are not punishments should be required. Not to do so now will cause you issues later.


I agree with all of this. She has agreed to all of this. I brought up a polygrapg test last night and she agreed without hesitation. I figured she would get defensive or offended, but not at all. I just need to find one locally now. I don't have any concerns, but it shoudl definitely help solidify the R process


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## jim123

Rand OmGuy said:


> I agree with all of this. She has agreed to all of this. I brought up a polygrapg test last night and she agreed without hesitation. I figured she would get defensive or offended, but not at all. I just need to find one locally now. I don't have any concerns, but it shoudl definitely help solidify the R process


If it had gone well with your BF it would be different now. It is all due to luck and not love for you.

Her issues are still not fixed,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife of 13 years cheated w/ my best friend*



Rand OmGuy said:


> I agree with all of this. She has agreed to all of this. I brought up a polygrapg test last night and she agreed without hesitation. I figured she would get defensive or offended, but not at all. I just need to find one locally now. I don't have any concerns, but it shoudl definitely help solidify the R process


That's excellent. Make sure you ask the proper questions to put the trust part to rest for good. Maybe you can discover the origin of the recent conversation which seems to be in question. I truly hope the polygraph can help you to move on.


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## Rand OmGuy

Thank you all for your insight and concerns. I llok at this like i am greiving a loss. In essence i have lost someone. I lost the wife i knew.


I feel like i am going through the 5 stages of greif:

Denial: I spent the first few days trying to pretend it didn't happen. Minimizing it in my mind. 

Anger: I became abgry at everything around. Violent thoughts towards the OM and distain for my wife. 

Bargaining: I spent quite a bit of time trying to understand all of this, trying to rationalize it.

Depression: My moods were all over the place. I wasfilled with sadness, then anger, then pain filled with breif moments of some sort of normalness.

Acceptance: I have worked my way into this. Jusr acknowledging what happened is not the same as accepting what happened. I think this is a critical stage for me to begin the forgiveness and healing process. 


All: I have taken all of you input to heart. I will use this post to respond to a few of the comments.

Would my wife continued to have sex with the OM of he had stayed hard, maybe. I'll never know. Does it matter much? Not really. She claims she was releived that he couldn't perform. She claims that she knows it went way to far and she was scared to tell him to stop. Whether this is true, i don't know. She could have tried to get him hard again, but she told him to leave. Does it matter at this point? Not too much. From the first kiss forward was too far. I have accepted what happened and am not going to get hung up on the details that don't really change anything. They could have screwed for an hour and it would hurt just the same. 

Do i think that they would have done it again if he would had performed the first time? NO. My wife succumbed to a moment of weakness, the remorse and guilt she carries is beyond measurable. She has spent everyday expressing how incredibly remorseful she is, how scared she was that when i found out i would leave, how bad she felt lying to me for 2 years. She is doing the heavy lifting right now. She is working hard every single to to prove that she deserves my forgiveness and deserves a chance to earn my trust back. 

I talked with her quite a bit last night and really grilled her on why she didn't come clean, how she could sit there and watch me be best friends with this OM knowing what they did. She said she wanted to tell me many times but could never find the words. I can understand that to a point. It all makes sense now on why she distanced herself whenever i was hanging out with the P.O.S. OM 

She said the message he send her on FB was the first private message he had sent and the first time he started bringing that day up. I looked through all of the PM's in history didn't see anything else. Why started all of the sudden after 2 years? Don't know, don't care. I find peace in how she responded to him. 

As i said last night, we talked a alot about the incident and a lot of the emotional issues she has. 

We are going to Marriage Counseling starting in two weeks. 

She is seeking a Psychologist to see indepentantly to work through some of her self-esteem issues.

We are moving in a positive direction. I will remain guarded and vigilant, but i am feeling better and more secure.


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## pplwatching

Rand OmGuy said:


> I agree with all of this. She has agreed to all of this. I brought up a polygrapg test last night and she agreed without hesitation. I figured she would get defensive or offended, but not at all. I just need to find one locally now. I don't have any concerns, but it shoudl definitely help solidify the R process


What do you hope to gain from a polygraph test? Polygraph tests are unreliable and do nothing to help you move on. Lets say the test indicates deception, but your wife is in fact telling the truth. How will you know and how does that help you to forgive her? If the polygraph test indicates no deception and she is lying to you, how are you going to know and how does that help you? It seems to me that the results of an unreliable and fallible test don't help you in any way.


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## bfree

*Re: Re: Wife of 13 years cheated w/ my best friend*



pplwatching said:


> What do you hope to gain from a polygraph test? Polygraph tests are unreliable and do nothing to help you move on. Lets say the test indicates deception, but your wife is in fact telling the truth. How will you know and how does that help you to forgive her? If the polygraph test indicates no deception and she is lying to you, how are you going to know and how does that help you? It seems to me that the results of an unreliable and fallible test don't help you in any way.


This is not true at all. There have been many threads on TAM where a polygraph was used to assist in R. In fact I believe there is an active thread right now in the private section where a polygraph was used to alleviate a BS's mind. You have to find a reliable person to administer the test. Usually the best tester is the one the local police use. You shouldn't make blanket statements like this as it can be detrimental to those who come here looking for help.


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## pplwatching

bfree said:


> This is not true at all. There have been many threads on TAM where a polygraph was used to assist in R. In fact I believe there is an active thread right now in the private section where a polygraph was used to alleviate a BS's mind. You have to find a reliable person to administer the test. Usually the best tester is the one the local police use. You shouldn't make blanket statements like this as it can be detrimental to those who come here looking for help.


Polygraph tests are unreliable. I realize that many people here hang their hat on the quality of the individual administering the test, but the fact remains that at the end of the day you have absolutely no way of knowing that the results are accurate.


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## tom67

pplwatching said:


> Polygraph tests are unreliable. I realize that many people here hang their hat on the quality of the individual administering the test, but the fact remains that at the end of the day you have absolutely no way of knowing that the results are accurate.


Sometimes people get the answers in the parking lot before even going in for the test so that has value.


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## Rand OmGuy

pplwatching said:


> What do you hope to gain from a polygraph test? Polygraph tests are unreliable and do nothing to help you move on. Lets say the test indicates deception, but your wife is in fact telling the truth. How will you know and how does that help you to forgive her? If the polygraph test indicates no deception and she is lying to you, how are you going to know and how does that help you? It seems to me that the results of an unreliable and fallible test don't help you in any way.



I am starting to agree. I have been researching Poly tests all morning and have realized that they are less than conclusive. 

The fact that she had absolutely no issue with it gives me some relief. 

I think the counseling is going to be more productive than anything


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## pplwatching

It doesn't sound to me like your wife is a serial cheater or that she isn't remorseful for what happened. If you want to forgive her, then focus on forgiving her and on making your marriage a vibrant one. I agree that you would be much better served by working to reestablish trust by rebuilding intimacy in your marriage.

Some things are both common sense and common courtesy, and also go a long way towards helping reestablish trust. In my marriage my wife and I know each others computer passwords. While our phones don't have passwords that's probably a stupid thing for us to do. Phones get stolen all of the time, and having a strong password is probably a good idea.

I think that if either of you feels that having opposite sex friends is a temptation, then it's reasonable that she should avoid having them. Communicating your concerns and mutually finding ways to address them will be key. You should express all of your concerns to her and seek a mutual agreement, but I don't think you can dictate anything. For every "control" in a reconciliation, there's a way to defeat it. A spouse who wants to cheat is going to find a way to cheat. 

There are many things that you can do to make your marriage affair-resistant. The biggest thing is work to make your marriage a strong one where you both want to be. I believe that knowing that you are doing what you can, and that she is doing her part, to strengthen your marriage will go a long way towards helping you forgive her.

Good luck to you both.


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## TRy

Rand OmGuy said:


> I am starting to agree. I have been researching Poly tests all morning and have realized that they are less than conclusive.
> 
> The fact that she had absolutely no issue with it gives me some relief.
> 
> I think the counseling is going to be more productive than anything


 The problem with polys is that there is a small chance that they can give you a false positive, where you would think that she is lying to you when she in fact she is telling you the truth. This could be marraige ending even though she is telling the truth. A better option is hypnosis. Hypnosis cannot make her admit to something that she did not do. So if in hypnosis you find out that she did more than she has admitted so far, you can believe it. Your situation is idea for hypnosis since you have a specific time and place to to start off with. If she agreed to a poly, then she should not have a problem with hypnosis. Again, just another consequence of her cheating, that can help you move on if she is telling the truth.


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## JCD

TRy said:


> The problem with polys is that there is a small chance that they can give you a false positive, where you would think that she is lying to you when she in fact she is telling you the truth. This could be marraige ending even though she is telling the truth. A better option is hypnosis. Hypnosis cannot make her admit to something that she did not do. So if in hypnosis you find out that she did more than she has admitted so far, you can believe it. Your situation is idea for hypnosis since you have a specific time and place to to start off with. If she agreed to a poly, then she should not have a problem with hypnosis. Again, just another consequence of her cheating, that can help you move on if she is telling the truth.


Harry Hill's Snake Oil is no good. The REAL THING is P. T Barnum's electro therapy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carpenoctem

QUOTE:
_
Originally Posted by Rand OmGuy 

Good morning everyone. My wife and I made some progress this weekend and i will elaborate below. 

But first, there has been a lot of skeptisism regarding my wifes' account of DDay and suspicion that there was more to it or more occasions. 

I didn't go into detail regading how i found out about her cheating because quite frankly i felt guilty about snooping, but not anymore. 

As i had mentioned before, i had a gut feeling and suspected something had happened, but i didn't know with who or when. 

The day i found out, i logged into her Facebook account. First off, i don't have Facbook, never have and never will. She didn't know that i knew her password nor did she know i even knew how to navigate it.

Below is the transcript word for word of the private message that led to me confronting her. I will refer to the former "friend" as OM.

Wife Updates Status on 3/7/13 - "Cleaning House"

Private Message:

OM: Are you cleaning house naked?

Wife: No

OM: Too bad, i would come take a peek if you were.

OM: What, you're not going to answer me? Come on my big titty friend, you know you're a freak. 

Wife: Whatever

OM: I miss our playtime. Don't you?

OM: GUess you can't answer that, huh?

Wife: I don't want to talk about it

Om: Don't you wish we would have tried to do it again after that?

Wife: NO. I told you it was a mistake. Why do you think i always tried to go do something else or go to my parents when you came over to hang with "RandOmguy".

Om: Do you hate me now?

Wife: No. It just shouldn't have happened. I told you not to talk to me that way anymore. Do you want me to delete you from my friends list.

Om: No,damn. Okay, sorry. We're still friends though right?

Wife: I gotta get back to cleaning, i was just taking a break. Bye

Om: Bye

End of conversation. 

I printed this out and confronted my wife with it and that is when she came clean. This conversation is what gives me a little hope and faith that it was only a one time thing and something she regreted. 
_
UNQUOTE:



*Random Guy:*

Had you included these (above) details in your first post, this thread would have gone on a different route altogether.

Your case does sound like *an exception where her inherent integrity won the tug-of-war with Dopamine, *etc., after a one-off detour. On its own (without your pushing it).

Reassuring enough to have an earnest attempt at Reconciliation.

All the best.


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## Rand OmGuy

Thank you all for you input. I know my posts have kind of been all over the place. I've been on an emotional rollercoaster for the past month and some of my posts reflect that. 

I think i was rushing forgiveness and reconciliation in the beginning. I didn't even have all of the information. 

You all helped slow me down and make sure i didn't rush into a mistake. As i gathered more information and more details i was able to process and wrap my head around all of this. 

My wife and I are doing much better, but we are still taking it a day at a time. I am closer with her than i ever was, but i remain guarded and vigilant.

I will keep everyone updated.


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