# Should I just walk away?



## luvmygeetars (Apr 9, 2014)

My wife and I recently separated. I am not sure if I should just walk away or I should try to save my marriage. Our situation is very complicated. Even before we were married we promised each other that unless there was infidelity we would do anything to fight for our marraige.

In short form here is our situation.
- married for 7 years, been together for 12 (with one 14 month break)
- we have two beautiful boys 2 and 4 years old (the 4 year old has Autism)
- my wife has been in therapy of one form or another for 15 years for issues like anxiety, depression, insecurity, fullfillment issues etc
- the reason we broke up the first time was because she was so "therapised" and intense about our relationship.
- we got back together after she had told me she had resolved all of her issues (this was not true unfortunately)
-she hid the fact that she started going back to therapy 3 years ago for over a year
-last year she was diagnosed with ADHD.
-we went to marriage counselling last year but stopped after my wife started taking Ritalin for the ADHD and all our problems seemed to go away.
-last year in December she had a pyschotic breakdown
-in January this year she said she wanted to separate and had no interest in trying to save the marriage with counselling etc
-a month ago she finally admitted that since her breakdown she has been having an emotional affair with an interstate ex over the phone.
-she seems completely unremorseful about the affair
-she says that Jason (the ex) gave her the support I didn't
-she says that Jason "sees her" and gives her positive encouragement, while all I ever do is focus on the negatives
-she has minimised the affair, calling it a friendship, a bit of harmless distraction and harmless fun, despite two psychiatrists telling her it was a relationship, not a friendship
-when I try to explain that what she sees as negatives is me pointing out the realities and practicalities.
-one minute she seems interested in trying to save the marriage, the next she doesn't
-the entire time she was having the emotional affair, while I was begging her to save the marriage she blamed me for our marriage problems and was incredibly angry, aggressive and hurtful toward me
-my wife has accused me of being emotionally abusive to her the entire time I have known her and said things like "you've treated me like f*cking sh*t our whole relationship"

I spoke with our marriage counsellor who assured me that while I have played my part in our marriage issues, I am by no means an emotionally abusive person.

I have been speaking with several friends, family and professional counsellors and getting so many mixed messages. I don't know if I should just focus on me and my boys and walk away or I should try to save our marriage.

Deep down I still love her, still desire her sexually, miss her deeply, but at the same time I feel so hurt by her betrayal, her lack of remorse for what she has done and the way she treated me while she was having the affair.

Any advice would be great.

Cheers

Brad


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Well, if you have no religious requirements that need to be met for a divorce, then it's time to move on. Would you say you have to walk on eggshells all the time? If so, that's no way to live. Kids do better in an intact family, but it sounds like your wife's psychological issues would prevent her from really being there for your kids, anyway.

Were you married or single when you had the 14 month separation?


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## luvmygeetars (Apr 9, 2014)

We were single when we separated the first time. She just became too intense in our relationship. It felt like our relationship became a field trial for every new thing she learned in her therapy and counselling sessions. It felt like I had to learn a whole new vocabulary just to have a conversation with her whenever there was an issues with our relationship. Every little thing became a big thing and was analysed to death - it just got too exhausting for me.

Yes, for the last few years I have felt like I have watch every little thing I say or do because the tiniest little thing would upset my wife and become a major hassle for us. Even when I would say that something wasn't a big deal or I was perfectly ok with a situation, she would still over-analyse it and make it into a major problem.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Your WW sounds very troubled.

I would prepare for the distinct possibility that you will have to move on from her craziness.

But I would definitely at least do the following.

I doubt this POS has any real interest in dealing with your WW's obvious issues.

He is just looking to use her and then dump her...he will not stay to deal with her in a relationship.

At that point, given your WW's already unstable personality and issues, she could very well spiral completely out of control.

No matter if you are with her or not, she is the mother of your children and you don't want them to be impacted by the likely self-destruction that would result after POS has his fun.

So my advice is to expose this POS and his attempts to manipulate your troubled WW.

Find out if he has a W or gf and inform them what a scumbag he is.

Inform her family and your friends of this POS and how he is playing on her obvious issues...since they also know her I assume they are also well aware of her struggles and the constant therapy and treatment she has needed.

Put pressure on this piece of trash to get the h**l away from your WW, if only so your kids don't have to deal with the ramifications if she gets used and dumped in her unstable state.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Has she ended contact with the OM and sent him a no contact letter?

Because if she hasn't, you should consider that she's made the decision to divorce for you.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

As long as she's still having her affair, meaning she hasn't cut off all contact for good with this guy (an EA is an affair, even if she isn't ready to recognize it as such), she's not really "in" your marriage now. Affairs exist in LaLa Land, where there are no barfing kids and bills and overflowing toilets, so of course "Jason" has only positive things to say - all the affair partners in the world are happy-talkers like Jason. That's what makes affairs so "special" - they're unreal and exist in a fantasy bubble. 

But you deserve a lot of credit for hanging in there because you've obviously not only cared about her, but you honored your vows, even as she's been dealing with her mental health issues - I've been there, and it's tough. And with the kids, especially your Autistic son, it's even more difficult to think about divorce.

But even before Jason entered the picture, there's another serious problem that became a wedge between you, one that you're already aware of. Talk about a wolf in sheep's clothing! Even for people who AREN'T as psychologically vulnerable as your wife, individual therapy can kill marriages. If she was going to therapy for a year and not telling you, there is a good possibility that the counselor was aware of that fact. And THAT makes you wonder what kind of crap that therapist was feeding her. The National Registry for Marriage Friendly Therapists informs consumers on their website that:

_Individual therapy may undermine more marriages than even poor couples therapy. Because relationship problems are the main problem people bring to individual therapists, individual therapists are treating marriages whether or not they realize it. Unless the therapist has values that support marriage and is careful not to turn the non-present partner into a villain, individual therapy can undermine a marriage. Every experienced marriage therapist has heard these stories: a spouse goes into individual therapy, receives support for a one-sided view of the marriage problems, and becomes increasingly pessimistic about the marriage. The therapist then questions why the person stays in an obviously bad marriage. The other spouse is clueless that the marriage is unraveling in therapy, and is not informed until it is too late. These therapists do not intend harm, but often their orientation is to the personal happiness of their individual client who is distressed in a marriage, without enough regard for the welfare of the other spouse…._

My husband was seeing an individual therapist for awhile after his affair, and it almost ended our marriage. He was still "not all there" so he wasn't presenting the full story to the therapist, the therapist was not on the Registry of Marriage Friendly Therapists (wasn't even married), and some of the advice he got made it clear that the therapist hadn't dealt much with infidelity before. Things got worse between us as a result of his counseling sessions, so I finally insisted that he quit, which he did.

A good marriage therapist, one who's listed on the Registry, has made a world of difference for us. And he's back on his meds (he'd been weaning himself off when he started his affair). He's remorseful, though. If your wife is not, and if she hasn't declared that she will never have any contact with Jason ever again, then the affair isn't over. You can't do much for a marriage that your wife isn't really in. 

A separation is often called a "trial separation," and you may want to treat it that way. Give it, say, 6 months. Do the 180 (if you don't know what that is, ask and we'll post a link for you). Basically it means to live your life as if you are moving on - don't play games, but when you're in contact with her be happy and upbeat and don't let your life in any way revolve around her or what she does or doesn't do. Don't get sucked into drama - if she starts some, tell her the discussion can be continued to another time. That gives you some control over the dynamic: when you live together, you don't have as much control. When you're separated, you don't have to be drawn into it, and she'll start to learn this. She'll either drop Jason or she won't, she'll either commit to get herself mentally healthy or she won't - but it won't be up to you to put pressure on her for any particular outcome while you're separated. You're free to just see what happens, and live as if you're on your own now, and try it on for size. Take care and good luck.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If one needs to split up to see if this works out then its done.

You don't phucking bail to see if you want each other.... You phucking stick it out to see if the both of you can commit.

This sh!t is all about commitment. Its not about taking a phucking break from each other!!!

So someone can screw around and not get guilt phucked!

Again, commit or get off the pot!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Your wife is severely broken and toxic to you. You cannot save her so you should spend time saving yourself. Time to move on.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ya, the use of the "F" word used 4 X in one post......

Sorry but something I feel strongly about when it comes to separation when used to work "it" out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

luvmygeetars said:


> -my wife has accused me of being emotionally abusive to her the entire time I have known her and said things like "you've treated me like f*cking sh*t our whole relationship"


You need to stop taking the nonsense she says to heart man.

This woman is seriously ill. What the heck are you thinking digesting all of her hurtful commentary.

You need to grow up and realize when people have anxiety and depression some of them can lash out.

You don't take offense when your kids throw tantrums, don't take offense when someone with anxiety has a panic attack and says nasty stuff.

I am NOT suggesting you put up with it, but you are clearly taking the crap she says to heart when you ought to find the maturity to know better than that.

When people are ill or wayward they spout off nonsense. You have to rise above that crap and get constructive.


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## krebszaoyad (Apr 9, 2014)

Even when I would say that something wasn't a big deal or I was perfectly ok with a situation


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

Geez, another "we're just friends," "he understands me," "my EA is all your fault."

Advice? File for divorce and see what happens with her attitude. If she doesn't want to change then you know for sure it's over.


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## luvmygeetars (Apr 9, 2014)

So I got the contact details of Jason. I just tried to ring him and explain that my wife is seriously messed up now after his little trist with her, that she is recovering from a mental breakdown and that I want to work things out with her, so please leave her alone.

My wife says she has ended contact with him and that there was nothing graphic or sexual in their phone and txt exchanges - it was just friendship, a connection, an understanding. He answered his phone and as soon as I said who I was, he hung up. Makes me think there was more to it than what my wife had told me and that they're hiding something. I rang back and he put me straight through to voicemail. I said I was not trying to give him a hard time, I just wanted him to know my wife was recovering from a mental breakdown, he had complicated things, I want to save my marriage, so please don't ever contact her again. I left my number and said he could call if he wanted to discuss it. I'm sure he won't.

I now have even more doubts if my wife is telling the truth about ending contact with him and about what really transpired between the two of them.


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

luvmygeetars said:


> Yes, for the last few years I have felt like I have watch every little thing I say or do because the tiniest little thing would upset my wife and become a major hassle for us. Even when I would say that something wasn't a big deal or I was perfectly ok with a situation, she would still over-analyse it and make it into a major problem.


Go down the "Assessment" check list on this link and see if anything looks familiar to you.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

At what point did she quit taking the Ritalin? I assume she has and is very common that they just decide one day they no longer want to be controlled and quit which is usually when the wheels fly off quickly.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

Read up on Reconcilliation on TAM. You have a shot. Your wife is sick. I am not sure she is capable of the weight she will need to carry to fix it. I liked the suggestion of filling. I'd start a 180 go dark and see what happens. Obviously you've tried to explain to her you were betrayed and she doesn't understand that. Let her get an MC, let her try to fix what she did wrong. Let her do the heavy lifting. It's a requirement for true reconcilliation. Sorry you here.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

hopefulgirl said:


> As long as she's still having her affair, meaning she hasn't cut off all contact for good with this guy (an EA is an affair, even if she isn't ready to recognize it as such), she's not really "in" your marriage now. Affairs exist in LaLa Land, where there are no barfing kids and bills and overflowing toilets, so of course "Jason" has only positive things to say - all the affair partners in the world are happy-talkers like Jason. That's what makes affairs so "special" - they're unreal and exist in a fantasy bubble.
> 
> But you deserve a lot of credit for hanging in there because you've obviously not only cared about her, but you honored your vows, even as she's been dealing with her mental health issues - I've been there, and it's tough. And with the kids, especially your Autistic son, it's even more difficult to think about divorce.
> 
> ...


I mainly do IC at this point in my life. The MC here typically does all the couples therapy. So if she is doing couples I do IC with the Veteran. 

The MC was telling me this morning that 90% of the couples she works with either D or separate. She was not telling me anything new. When I did MC years ago I would say about 90% or higher, of the couples I worked with stayed together.

It has to do with our approach. I have advanced theological training and my religious background and beliefs do influence the way I approach therapy.

The MC has no religious background. Her motive in counseling is never to resolve the marriage, but to encourage each one to "find happiness" in their lives, and if that means leaving the relationship so be it. 

One couple she is working with I see the male in IC. I have been working with him to stay in the marriage and stop having an A (it was an EA). He left his wife and kids and the MC encouraged it. I told him to get back home where his arse belongs. He moved back home and his wife found out about the EA. She went off on him, but fortunately I coached him about being open, honest and transparent and he listened to me.

The MC told them maybe it is time for D. Neither one of them wants that at this time. The guy I am seeing wants to work it out and he says I don't lock my phone, etc.


I am not opposed to D. I use to favor R in most cases but after my wife's A's I have changed and will say D is an option more then I did in the past.

I have worked with non-religious counselors who were very M friendly, so I am not slamming the MC who works with me due to her non-religious views. I do disagree with her approach and views as she does not see M as all that important.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, you asked, so here goes. After 12 years of dealing with her mental illness (and that's exactly what it is) you must be worn to the bone. Not to mention that she has lied to you about going back to counseling, an affair with an ex-boyfriend, and now she is rugsweeping it all to boot.

She has been in therapy for 15 years. How much MORE therapy can she get to effect a positive change? Doesn't seem to have worked well thus far.

Personally, I would walk. Time to pack up, move along.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

It would seem from your description that your wife has already walked away from this relationship. She is having head fantasies about this other guy. Since the majority of divorces are filed by women she may permanently check out soon no matter what you want. My point being is if you want to try and get her back, in my opinion she is already mentally gone, then you can but in that time also start protecting yourself. Maybe separate and get 1/2 the money out of your mutual accounts. If she decided to check out permanently It will be fast a furious


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Psychotic breakdown?

You need to assess the chances of a happy life with this woman. 

Mental illness is often a lifetime of difficulties.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> Go down the "Assessment" check list on this link and see if anything looks familiar to you.


In looking at other potential diagnosis, as Machiavelli is suggesting, I would suggest looking at other conditions as well to include bi-polar disease.

In ADHD, attention, focus, boundaries, etc are flawed. Folks with this condition can be all over the place emotionally. Ritilin can be a wonderful drug for this condition, I have seen folks go on this and the change in behavior can be quite positive. But I would question why she had a psychotic breakdown. I suspect there is more then ADHD or she has been misdiagnosed. The other problem with Ritilin being used by adults is that they often times become non compliant and stop taking it for various reasons and then they go back to their former behaviors. 

My adult son has ADHD along with other issues. He weaned himself off Ritilin (he did not want to be addicted). His immature behaviors returned and when I found out he quit using Ritilin and why, I laid the law down on him. You either go back on the Ritilin or you stop acting like a 12 year old. My firm talk with him years ago worked for the most part. He is off the Ritilin and is fairly compliant at home. We have our moments and had our moments, but for the most part those incidences are related to his other conditions.

Living with someone who has behavioral/mental condition/s is very difficult. There are treatments but often times the person is non compliant. I work with folks with various conditions. Yesterday I was dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic. Ironically, my case load with folks with this condition has increased, where for years I had no one with this condition. He was committed to a locked unit because he stopped his meds and went off on folks.

OP, if you can get to the bottom of your wife's condition that is only the first step. then you have to see if she will be compliant with treatment. No matter what, as long as you stay married to her it will be a tough road.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

luvmygeetars said:


> Last year she was diagnosed with ADHD.


Brad, I agree with Machiavelli and Thorburn that you should consider BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) as a source of her behavior problems. It is common for BPD to be mistaken for adult ADHD because they share some similar clinical features -- e. g. impulsivity, emotional dysregulation, cognitive impairment. Indeed, some researchers have suggested that adult ADHD and BPD may even be the same disorder (see, e.g., Adult ADHD).

ADHD in childhood has been reported to be highly associated with the diagnosis of BPD in adulthood and adult ADHD often co-occurs with BPD. One of the dilemmas with treating someone having both BPD and ADHD is that ADHD medications can make the BPD symptoms worse.

Psychiatrist Robert Friedel says "It is not uncommon for... adults with borderline disorder who have some symptoms of ADHD to be misdiagnosed with only ADHD." He notes that ADHD occurs in at least 25% of people with BPD -- 5 times more often than it does in the general population. He also say that, when BPD and ADHD co-occur, "...patients often do worse when treated for ADHD if they first receive a medication for the symptoms of ADHD." See Adult ADHD -- Friedel.

Another problem, if your W suffers from both of these disorders, is that therapists routinely withhold the BPD diagnosis and mention only the ADHD diagnosis to the client. Generally, therapists are loath to tell a BPDer client -- much less tell her husband -- the name of her disorder. Instead, they will list the diagnosis as including only the co-occurring clinical disorders such as ADHD, bipolar, GAD, PTSD, or anxiety. Therapists often withhold this information from the client (and her insurance company) in order to protect the client -- for several reasons I've discussed in my post at Loath to Diagnose. 

Hence, when BPD is a strong possibility, your best chance of finding out about it is not to ask your W's therapist but, rather, see a second psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and the kids are dealing with. Significantly, your W's therapist is _not your friend_. It therefore is prudent to see a professional who is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not hers.

I therefore join Machiavelli and Thornburn in suggesting that you read about BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. An easy place to start is my list of BPD red flags at 18 Warning Signs. And I provide a more detailed description of them in my posts at Maybe's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. I'm sure that Machiavelli and Thornburn also would contribute to such a discussion. Take care, Brad.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

In a marriage there is give and take. Seems like your doing most of the giving and she's doing all the taking.

Not to mention that I think she knows it. Maybe it's time that she gets a taste of reality and give her divorce papers and tell her that you have had enough. 

Maybe she'll finally realize that she found a man who was willing to go the extra mile for her and she couldn't appreciate it. 

You can only do so much for her and she has to do the rest and if she can't then maybe it's time you cut your loses.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

luvmygeetars said:


> My wife says she has ended contact with him and that there was *nothing graphic or sexual in their phone and txt exchanges - it was just friendship, a connection, an understanding*. He answered his phone and *as soon as I said who I was, he hung up*. Makes me think there was more to it than what my wife had told me and that they're hiding something. I rang back and he put me straight through to voicemail. I said I was not trying to give him a hard time, I just wanted him to know my wife was recovering from a mental breakdown, he had complicated things, I want to save my marriage, so please don't ever contact her again. I left my number and said he could call if he wanted to discuss it. I'm sure he won't.
> 
> I now have even more doubts if my wife is telling the truth about ending contact with him and about what really transpired between the two of them.


Sorry you ended up here man.

Welcome to the suck..........

On a lighter note, I can tell you what has been going on, they connected again, she liked it, so did he, they got their rocks off, maybe it was just phone, text and chatting but she hid it from you.

Most likely, it was hard core phone sex and she was rubbing one off while he talked dirty to her, why else would she hide it?

She has lied to you and managed to keep it hidden that she was back in therapy, really bad sign, either by omission or by lying it was wrong and deceitful to behave like that, it should, and rightly so IMHO raise extreme doubts over her trustworthiness regards POSOM.

Good luck getting anywhere with a WS with mental health issues!!!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> Good luck getting anywhere with a WS with mental health issues!!!


:iagree: with Wranglerman

Bail, unless you are JC. Of course, if she comes back to you in three months an talks sense you can date her. But the reality is she will always be troubled.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

When you have a women dealing w self esteem issues as it is, insecurities, going to therapy as long as she has been, self guessing herself as long as she has, has 2 men telling her she is either love, or wanted, and doesn't believe it, or feel it herself, not knowing who she is, trying to work out her life sure isnt a fun place to be. She and her life is a mess right now, and anyone who is involved in it as well. 

Her 'soulmate' is there for only a good time, the 'present,' where you sadly, are there for the long haul. 

What you need to do imho, is to step back & and access yourself, and ask, and come to term with the hard questions we must ask ourself, and answer no matter what the answers to be. Can you live your life with or without this person? Do you want to be with or without this person? Will your life be better with or without this person? Will this always be the way life will be with or without this person? Can you be happy again with or without this person? Is the love you truly feel able to hold you during the really horrible feeling you are going to feel? Will you miss this person, and is living with the pain better than living without? 

Only you can answer, but your wife isnt in a healthy place, and will only get worst until she really comes to terms with her own answers and is honest with herself as well. 

I never realized myself how troubling a 'personal growth' period in ones' life time can really be, no wonder so many writers are crazy... 

-sammy


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

sammy3 said:


> When you have a women dealing w self esteem issues as it is, insecurities, going to therapy as long as she has been, self guessing herself as long as she has, has 2 men telling her she is either love, or wanted, and doesn't believe it, or feel it herself, not knowing who she is, trying to work out her life sure isnt a fun place to be. She and her life is a mess right now, and anyone who is involved in it as well.
> 
> Her 'soulmate' is there for only a good time, the 'present,' where you sadly, are there for the long haul.
> 
> ...


Sorry you're here my friend. There are a few of us here who have suffered similarly at the hands of spouses with some severe 'issues' - lets put it that way ! I had 15 years of it. 

I second uptown's view of it and BPD is often a merging of certain 'traits'

You sound in that desperate place some of us were in dealing with an afflicted person like this - walking on eggshells springs to mind and it's so damn hard to deal with and even harder, to let go of someone who has these problems. 

But sadly when when all they do is bring down endless buckets of sh!t upon everyone's head, especially those who love them and are trying to support them, then it's maybe time to take stock and try to see how you want your life and your children's to be. More of the same for another 15 years ?

In terms of therapy and treatment your wife, as opposed to many (mine included), has tried to get treatment. Trouble is as many of us know successful treatment for this is very very difficult and the success stories are tbh rare. 

Might help to check the mental health forum on here you can find a more specific kind of support in there 

I really do wish you all the best dealing with this as it's a real bast!rd to live with


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

luvmygeetars said:


> My wife and I recently separated. I am not sure if I should just walk away or I should try to save my marriage. Our situation is very complicated. Even before we were married we promised each other that unless there was infidelity we would do anything to fight for our marraige.
> 
> In short form here is our situation.
> - married for 7 years, been together for 12 (with one 14 month break)
> ...


There's more to BPD diagnosis than me having an opinion but 

the lack of fulfillment an all pervading 'emptiness' inside ( even when you and the world knows they have everything to feel great about) 

entitlement 
strong back dated resentment 
overnight placing 'new' OM on a pedestal and you as the devil incarnate (the complete opposite of the shining knight in armour) 
minimizing of an affair therefore
zero remorse - I mean zero
the re writing of the marital history and back dating the resentment to justify her new found 'feelings'
blameshifting 
hurtful aggressive 

All classic signs 

I'd check out BPD all over the net and sadly I think you may be in for a nasty surprise 

Is there a history of abuse as a child, even minor? eating disorders self harming etc ?
What's behind much of their problems is the fear of being left high and dry abandoned
They tend to feel like that will happen and so they want to jump ship first. 

They also tend to 'collapse' in cycles and the severity and distance between the 'collapses' / breakdowns tends to get shorter and shorter 

I think sadly you may find the affair was something quite different and much stronger than she will ever admit to but.....

Personally, I and many close friends and family think I gave my stbx a really good life but she convinced herself I had done 'nothing' for her in 15 years and actually what I cant never forgive is that I ending up almost believing it myself. She 'gaslighted' me into thinking I was a bad person who had been only negative for her and our children.
Thank christ I woke up and realized what was going on.

Life now is very very different (separated for two years near divorce) and like you although I still have feelings I understand exactly what kind pf person she is and what she has done to all the people closest to her especially our kids and so I can never go back to a single moment of that again. I sleep very well at night now knowing I no longer have to deal with her crazy sh!t any more 

.........and guess what she's still carrying on with her crazy stuff with OM !! hehehe

_______

It's a long torturous and difficult road ahead brother and be aware if we can help or support you in any way we will.

_________

(By the way I'm a guitarist and I also love my guitars too !


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


WISH I HAD DONE THIS....BADKARMA2013 APR. 2014
__________________


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## luvmygeetars (Apr 9, 2014)

Thank you for all of the amazing support and responses. There's definitely been a lot of things mentioned that have made me stop and think. I have also been speaking with a counsellor the last few days and found it very helpful and comforting, but at times confronting.

Just a few little updates on the situation.

I accessed my wife's email account and found out that she had registered on a web site called Bad Girl's Bible. I checked the web site and amongst other things, they specialise in phone sex and dirty texting techniques. I confronted my wife about it, but she denied that she actually did anything with the information. She said she just happened upon that site by accident and it looked interesting, so she thought it would be harmless fun to have a read. She maintains that the connection she had with Jason was about intimacy, friendship, support, emotional connection and not anything sexual. When I pointed out that she had already told me once, that Jason had said sexually inappropriate things, but she had not, it certainly looked suspect and made it look very much like she had also been doing/saying sexually inappropriate things. She continued to deny it though.

I also have spoken with Jason on the advice of a counsellor. The counsellor said I had the right to advise Jason of my wife’s mental health and ask him to respect my wishes to stay away from her while we try to sort things out. The counsellor also warned me thought that Jason had the right to tell I could shove my rights. When I rang Jason he was reluctant to speak with me at first, but I explained that my wife was recovering from a mental breakdown when they were in contact and that she is now a complete mess and that it has caused so many more issues for our marriage on top of what we were already trying to deal with. At times he seemed quite understanding, but other times he was quite smug on the phone, but I didn't respond to it. He said he was unaware of her mental breakdown and that he was just giving her the support she needed, because she had clearly reached out to him in a time of need, so there was obviously a strong connection between the two of them. When I pointed out that the reason she contacted him initially was because he was a federal police officer and she thought our lives were in danger (the psychotic breakdown was that she thought her brother and father had repeatedly sexually assaulted her as a child and were now coming to kill us, to hide their secret), he tried to down play it by saying that they clearly still had a strong bond from their previous relationship. I explained that his actions had really messed up my wife and made things so much harder for us, but he tried to minimise it by calling it friendship and support, but when I confronted him about the inappropriate sexual nature of some of their interactions he replied with "well, yeh, ok......but that was from both of us, not just me". Clearly my wife has lied yet again about what they actually shared during that time. I don't think I will ever know the truth. As the counsellor said to me, there is an alarming body of evidence to indicate that my wife was a willing participant in the sexualised part of the affair and to simplify things - if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. He thinks there is a lot more that my wife hasn't disclosed. I can see why my wife was so easily connected with this guy. He has the “therapised” talk that my wife loves down to a fine art. He was telling me what an amazing inner light my wife has and that she has been trapped in a dark, cold world for so long needing her light to shine. That she is the kind of person who’s inner light can make the world such a better place and that she needs an encouraging and nurturing environment to fully develop her gifts….things like that. When I pointed out that it was very easy for him to say those words and give her limitless affirmation, whereas I was entrenched in the reality of the situation, with kids, a mortgage, financial stress, relationship stress, my wife’s ongoing issues and I was accountable for everything I said, he was very quick to say that I clearly didn’t understand my wife the way he did.

I am now starting to think that my wife's issues are inherited from her mother. Her mother tried to commit suicide twice when my wife was quite young (10 and 12 years old) and my wife actually saved her the second time by calling the ambulance against her mother's wishes. Her parents had a terrible marriage - her father was an alcoholic Vietnam veteran, who cheated on her mother and her mother had a very oppressive upbringing, hated her marriage and deliberately made her husband's life a misery for cheating on her. Her mother has never been medically diagnosed, because in her mind, she is fine, the rest of the world has the problem. I have always just thought she as a miserable, hateful, angry woman, who tried to impart that view of the world onto her children, but now I think she is actually mentally unwell and my wife has the same condition.

Our marriage counsellor also thinks that there may be some truth in the sexual assault psychosis my wife had. He thinks there is clearly something deeply powerful and hurtful behind the episode and the fact that it happened while my wife was dealing with repressed emotions and fullfillment issues from her childhood with her psychiatrist at the time of the psychosis leads him to think that there is something dark and sinister in her family's past. My wife is reluctant to investigate that any further.

I am finding this whole thing so confusing. I still have such strong feelings for my wife, but I also feel so betrayed and like I could never feel secure with her or trust her again. She is still so unremorseful for what she has done. She still maintains it was only friendship and I am exaggerating its significance. I don't know whether to stay and fight because when I see her, all I can see is the woman I love and wanted to spend my life with. At other times, I feel like I no longer even know her and that I will forever be doubting her word and waiting for her to do it again.

Thank you again for all the support.

Cheers

Brad


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

luvmygeetars,

If this POS is a federal law enforcement officer, call and file an official complaint about his behavior with his superiors...make sure to include the issues with your WW's mental issues and how this scumbag is playing on them to destroy your family.

Federal officials have a code of conduct requirement...I was an officer in the Navy and it was VERY SERIOUS...and even if he is a civilian official, just remember what happened to the Secret Service agents who used prostitutes during President Obama's trip to South America a couple years ago...that ended careers.

And I suspect his agency would take an even more dim view of adultery with a mentally unstable woman that was seriously threatening to destroy her family and M.

Your WW sounds very ill and this POS is using/playing her perfectly.

Even if you can't stay in the M with her because of these issues...get this POS away from your W before he destroys the mother of your children even more.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Only give your loyalty to those who return it. Regardless of what other issues are involved.


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