# Lost & remembering love...



## Birdsong (Aug 28, 2009)

How I feel now...

I feel lost. Not sure where I am aiming or what I should be aiming at in my relationship. What do I want right now in this moment? I just want to say to him 'look it's over, it's been over for some time'. If I was not 'married' that would be the end of it. But I am supposedly married (although I feel a million miles away from it), and the decision isn't as simple as that.

But how do I make it work, when I all I want is for it not to work?

Where we were then...

The first 2-3 years of our marriage were spent with me waiting around for him at home while he stayed away here or there because of work and worked all sorts of hours. We just didn't have a life together - didn't do anything together. He was always tired when he came home, and after hotels all week and a shattering job, he just wanted to rest at home (understandable). 

I was forced to become independent because I couldn't rely on him being around. I started organising my life regardless of him. If I didn't know whether he'd be home or not, how could I make arrangements that involved him? 

His job made me so desperately unhappy, and I missed him terribly. I didn't want to pressurise him into leaving - always knew that would be a big mistake. I wanted him to leave because he loved me, missed me, wanted to spend time with me etc.

I spent a lot of time crying back then. It cut me up inside that I wasn't important enough to make time for. I know he couldn't help what the conditions of the job were, but he made no effort with me when he WAS around either. He also wouldn't consider looking for another job.

Eventually I stopped crying when he went away. That was when I knew it was serious. I was backing off from him, protecting myself from the pain and heartache. He noticed it too, but didn't admit to it until I just told him straight that his job was killing us, and he needed to think about what was important to him. It wasn't an ultimatum, just a statement of fact.

So... eventually, he got a job at a different company.

Then he was home every night, and we started doing things together. It was better for a while and I felt happier than I think I'd ever felt in our relationship. That was April 2008. But then, everything kind of halted itself and our relationship plateaued at friendship level.

I thought that the extra time he had would involve me more, but it just got filled with other 'important' things (his computer, his car, so-and-so's DIY work etc etc). The thing that upset me was that my order of priority in his life hadn't changed. He wouldn't make plans if he knew I wasn't working at a weekend, but then none of our time together would be spent actually together.

He returned to his old workplace in May this year. It's been ok workwise and he's only away occasionally and back late sometimes. It's manageable now. But our relationship hasn't recovered at all. As one of my other posts details, our sex life is also non existent but that's a symptom of our inability to connect with each other.

If we do something together, I never feel like he enjoys it. Time with me appears to be a duty not a desire. He seems to be happier fishing with a friend or his Dad, or working in the garden or on his computer etc. We all need 'me' time, but relationships need 'us' time too. I just feel like that my company is not his favourite place to be. I feel second rate all the time.

So, here I am now...

He knows most of what I've written here - if I managed to make this much sense to him. He's really trying to be more loving, but it all feels a bit false. He'll say "right, time for a hug" or, "I haven't had a kiss today". Then I just feel like I'm kissing my brother - very wierd. I don't know what I want/expect from him. 

He just didn't take me seriously enough whenever I told him in the past how I was feeling. Maybe it's too late to fix it. He is walking around pretending everything's alright & going to be ok. I just feel numb (if my feelings are even that strong) and don't know what I am supposed to be doing in the relationship. What am I supposed to do? Hold on I guess...

I remember what it felt like to be loved and wanted, and to love and want back. Now, I'm not able to feel either. It makes me so sad.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Does he want to remain married?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

if you truly want to work on your marriage and you're not putting out feelers to see if you have the moral imperative to give up on your marriage then just know this:

you and your husband haven't been close for quite some time and the fact that your husband is making an attempt to be loving and intimate again is a very positive sign.

and it will feel a little strange to kiss and hug him at first but you'll soon get over the strangeness and syart to enjoy kissing him again.

however i can't help but think there's more to the story than you're relating.

a real big 'more'.

p.s. i'm breaking out the frog squad to cheer you up:
:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:
:fish::bounce::fish::bounce::fish::bounce::fish:


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## Birdsong (Aug 28, 2009)

To dobo,
- yes he does want to remain married to me... or at least, yes, he wants to remain married. He comes from a broken home (had a miserable childhood - a stupid mother) and I have been told that all he has ever wanted is to meet someone and settle down. Guess, I was/am that someone. I am what he wants - a secure, emotionally stable (mostly), intelligent (such modesty I know) & strong person with a quirky sense of humour. He loves me. 

To recent_cloud,
- thanks for the jumping frogs. They tickled me when I saw them (my sense of humour!). Your advice is good and reassuring. I know that I have felt so hurt by his passive rejection of me that I have protected myself by hiding my feelings away. My little heart has taken some battering... Maybe with time, my feelings towards him will unfurl themselves again...

There is obviously more to the story than I have written here. People don't want to read an essay! But when you say 'big more' I wonder what you mean? There's nothing very significant that has happened - no affairs (have had sporadic suspicions, but don't think so), drugs or beatings (be an easy decision for me if that was the case).

His attitude towards me has stung a bit in the past. He can be particularly moody, and can be quite cutting at these times. A little embarrassing that my Mum and good friends have noticed this too... and haven't liked it! 

He tends to transfer his feelings that he has towards his mother onto me sometimes. In fact, I think that I have become a little bit of a substitute Mum for him (not by design or intention). I am a caring person with strong maternal instincts and I guess even when I tone these down, they still shine through. The feelings he expresses towards me are mostly platonic.

Maybe this is also why our sex life has suffered badly (see my other thread). I originally thought this was a big part of the problem, but then realised it was only a result of a bigger picture. A picture that has grown and size and become harder to ignore. Now I have admitted to myself how unhappy I have been for years, I can't pretend any more.

Perhaps also that's why I have become "her indoors" who is (has been) treated like a bit of furniture. I work as well, and have always been very much against becoming a doormat housewife. It does get on my nerves a bit when I see him missing opportunities to do things in the house... In all honesty this is just a pet hate, and something I don't consider a major issue in our relationship. I think it is just symptomatic of his attitude towards me.

But then, he is trying at present, and attitudes can change. I will try hard to be alluring and interesting. I will make efforts to get us out there doing things together, rather than stay cooped up inside. I need to be open minded and just see what will be...

There is always hope - even when everything else is gone. :butterfly:


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

yes it's said that when you have nothing you still have hope.

but it doesn't speak well of a marriage to say 'all else is gone' because then you have no marriage, you have the remnant of a living arrangement.

i've said you may be able to rekindle your feelings for your husband and that may well be, but i wonder based on what you more recently wrote if your husband is only trying because it's the minimum me thinks he must do to maintain the appearance of a marriage.

i was struck by your statement that you'd try to be more alluring and interesting.

i suspect you're already alluring and interesting, or put another less familiar way, you're husband is not very interested in seeing you this way.

you've finally admitted to years of unhappiness and that cannot now be taken back or forgotten.

you shouldn't have to go one more day unhappy.

your marriage, your world, needs to change.

nothing changes without a catalyst.

you must decide what the catalyst will be for your marriage, your world, to change.



choreography with bunny:
:woohoo::corkysm60::bunny::corkysm60::woohoo:


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## Birdsong (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks recent_cloud...

A catalyst huh? I'll think on that. 

I don't want to hurt him or disappoint friends and family. There is no rush on any decision that I will make. My belief in the sanctity of marriage will mean that I will try to find a way through this... it's so hard though. I want to feel all the right things towards him (I do love him and care for him, but not in the way that I should unfortunately). I must have felt them at some point... I just can't remember when.

Sorry this is just mindless blabber now. Wish I could just flick a switch and make it all better.

Thanks for amusing smilies - you're very good at their choreography!


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

maybe your husband feels as though he's settled for you and that makes you feel inadequate.

i also wonder if you ever really fell in love.

the sanctity of marriage is more than just staying in an unhealthy situation.

a marriage is a living changing thing that needs constant attention or it withers.

maybe i should take you up on your advice and read your other thread because there is defintitely more to this story.


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## Birdsong (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't know. He jumped in feet first to our relationship - told me things he'd not told anyone on our first proper date. Really opened up to me.. I was overwhelmed by his honesty and openness in the beginning.

He was so honest & open about his feelings towards me in that 1st year together. I had no doubt he loved me. Having rushed in with my own feelings before in relationships, I held back until I was sure it was love for me too. 

After a year, we decided 2 get married the following year. I was so happy. It felt so right. Not pink fluffy clouds happy, but I've never put much faith in the 'movie' type love.

Then, issues started cropping up. Little things that seemed so insignificant at the time. 

My cousin was stopping in our flat with us (she was my bridesmaid). I came home early from work one day (morning time)... My H (fiance at the time) was on the sofa near my cousin. When I entered, they both looked a little shocked, even flustered. They weren't immediately welcoming & her hair was a mess. I felt very awkward in that moment like I'd interrupted something. My first thought was one of suspicion. But, I didn't know what to do.

I did ask him once about it, but can't remember his exact response. A denial none the less.

My Mum has in the past, tried 2 broach the subject of his fidelity with me. She wondered why when he was away for work, it was typically a Thursday. I didn't feel like he was unfaithful though. Thought I'd know.

Then with his behaviour towards me in the bedroom (lack of interest in me), increasingly keeping his emotional distance (after being so open in the beginning), disappearing on his computer for ages, being secretive about things, being moody/impatient with me, treating me like a duty in his life etc. It does strongly look like I might have/or have had reason to be suspicious.

I asked him outright a few weeks ago if there was someone else. He just said 'do you think that if there was, that I'd b able to look you in the eye?'

But how would I know the truth? 

He's really trying at present. He said that if I was no longer around, he'd not want anyone else in his life. But I'm wondering who this guy is. After years of pulling away from me, & losing that openness I knew in the beginning, I feel like he's a stranger to me right now. There's this big void that separates the man I loved & married, and the guy I now share a house with. 

I don't know what to trust. Is this all an act? Is his current behaviour how he plays 'devoted husband'? How can I be sure of my feelings, when I don't quite understand or believe his?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iceycat (Oct 8, 2009)

It certainly doesn't make things easy when you are suspicious of something in the past, but in all honesty I know of many times in my life that I thought something with such certainty only to find out it wasn't what I thought, then again there have been times where my suspicions have proved true as well. My advice to you is this if you suspected something it's good to have your radar up, but with no real proof of anything you could make a huge issue out of nothing. Don't keep your blinders on, but don't react to a situation that you don't know for certain what it was either.

Example: Cousin could have been upset/depression crying, sleeping because of these feelings whatever which would explain her upset appearance, your husband may have seen what was wrong asked her about it, maybe she was too embarrassed to share that she was going through something upsetting in a relationship/friendship/family/etc. he related and maybe shared something about his relationship with the two of you as a way of expressing sympathy or as a way of finally telling someone something that was bottled up. You come in the door after/during such a discussion and awkwardness abounds. Neither party would want to divulge they had just been talking about your marital problems. This could be just as plausible of an explanation too based on the facts you gave. I may be way off base as well, but I only wanted to illustrate how we can build something in our minds out of nothing.

As for the rest of your situation I would ask that you keep in mind that you felt he was being distant from you and now that he's trying it sounds like you might be repaying that distance with your own. (subconciously I'm sure) He may also be responding to your distance with his own. I don't know for certain how it is between you guys, but if he felt pressured from you whenever he was home with the other job then he might have felt like he couldn't breath whenever he walked in the door. It's easy to remember that you've been home all day waiting for him, but of course you know he probably had a day full of constant issues to deal with and coming home probably needed that decompression time without new pressure. That being said decompression time should be just that, and afterward you need to receive the attention you need as his wife as well. The compromise I had with mine was give me about an hour when I walk in the door, after that I'm all yours.

As for now, be clear about what you want from him, but clear about what you need to bring to the table yourself, and what you can do. Too often we wish the other person would just act how want them to act and we get angry, but the reality is they usually don't even know we are harboring that desire. The compromise I have with my wife for "play time" on the X-box with friends, or whatever is that Saturdays are kind of my weekly night to do whatever I want, ditto for her, the rest of the week is family first, but that one day is reserved for recharging our individual batteries. Obviously we can do special activities with friends individually outside of that if need be so that it's not too rigid if something special comes up, but we don't abuse that either so it's fair. 

You guys need to come together on this emotionally distant thing. I'm not really hearing, an "oh he's right, she's wrong" thing or vice versa. What I'm hearing is that two people need to figure out a way to prioritize each other, be sympathetic to each other, and respect each other while maintaining a loving marriage. The two of you can do that, but only if you are BOTH willing to put in the work. Arguments in marriage are rarely if ever about who needs to do the work, or who is wrong. What it means to be a partner is that it is the priority of both of you. If hes goes through something you go through something, if you're having a rough time by extension he should be going through something as well. Not because we want or partners to suffer with us, but because they love us and sympathize with us, and hopefully will lift us up and support us to get through those rough patches. 

Ask yourself, if you're each off in your own respective corners, how can that happen?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

Birdsong said:


> I asked him outright a few weeks ago if there was someone else. He just said 'do you think that if there was, that I'd b able to look you in the eye?'


this is an evasion, a non-responsive answer.

it's a player's line.



Birdsong said:


> But how would I know the truth?


he has you confused which renders you vulnerable to his suggestions, no matter how suspicious they may seem.



Birdsong said:


> I feel like he's a stranger to me right now. There's this big void that separates the man I loved & married, and the guy I now share a house with.


i'm not sure he's ever really revealed who he is to you or anyone. 

he most likely told you as much as he thought he needed to in the beginning to win you over, which obviously was a very successful yet cynical plan.



Birdsong said:


> I don't know what to trust. Is this all an act? Is his current behaviour how he plays 'devoted husband'? How can I be sure of my feelings, when I don't quite understand or believe his?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


he may have become a cynical player and manipulator because of where he comes from but that's beside the point and a matter for his therapist.

he is, has, and will continue to manipulate you, and as he does, he will continue to lose respect for you.

you have to distance yourself from the situation to see how twisted he has you.

you've come so far as to know you need independent, objective observations about your situation.

it's time to take the next steps.

i suspect you know in your heart what i say is true.


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## Birdsong (Aug 28, 2009)

To iceycat,

I hear what you're saying. Possibly nothing happened between my cousin and him all those years ago. This was just the first time I was suspicious of my H for anything like this. The doubt nudged open a little window in my mind. It's just one of those 'little things' that added to a bigger pile of 'little things'.

When he was in the other job (that he has recently returned to) I was always very careful and considerate to allow him time when he returned from work. He would pretty much ignore me when he got back anyway, so I didn't have the chance to say much more than 'hi' to him.

I was as saintly and understanding as I possibly could be about the pressures of his job. Never nagged him. I couldn't stop getting upset sometimes when I discovered that he'd be away for another week or late back again so I wouldn't see him. It was unpredictable when he'd be away, and he was away more than he was home. I work as well, so wasn't waiting at home for him all day. 

Naturally, I just wanted to spend time with my H, the man I loved. Unfortunately, when we had a rare weekend or evening alone together he wouldn't show any signs of wanting to be around me too. If at home, he'd be in another room. If we went out, then he'd just rush whatever we were doing so he could get home (and return to another room again!). 9 times out of 10 he'd spend the day in a bit of a mood.

Because this attitude towards me was tearing me apart inside and bringing down my self esteem, confidence, self belief etc, I learned a coping mechanism. This was to pull away from the situation and start thinking about what I did have some control over - Me! So, to stop myself from falling into depression completely I started thinking about what I could bring into my own life that would make me happier more fulfilled as a person.

I encourage him to have interests/social time. It's his job that has always stopped him from having this time, not me. I sometimes used to get blamed for his not being able to do things... If he had one day off in two weeks (and he'd been staying away, with colleagues I might add, so he's had social times in the evenings) you would sort of expect him to want to spend that day with the woman he loved. No?

Years later, I am now a much more confident, strong, self sufficient type person. I *can't* rely on my H for emotional support, social activities, fun, conversation and neither can I completely trust him. None of this is my choice and I have not caused this problem - he has. If I should have done anything different then that would have been to talk about this situation more with him as it was happening... but when would he have been able to give me the time to listen to me, and if he did have time would he have understood or just think I was being a 'nagging wife'?

Thanks as always recent_cloud :smthumbup:

I know their is a strong possibility that there is something else in his life that pulls him away from me (or that he chooses to be pulled to). I always used to say that the other woman in his life was his job.

If he's been unfaithful, then I'm sure that it wouldn't have been just one woman... and I don't know how far he would have gone with them. I know that he loves getting looks from other women when we go out; always scans the room/street wherever we go. I just don't know how he would behave without me around.

He's a chameleon - can change who is and how he behaves to suit the situation or people that he's with. I see him do it when we socialise (on those rare occasions). It is completely instinctual with him, and he's very good at it. I never considered until recently that he also played a part with me too. So yes, you're probably right about him.

I do need to stand back and view the situation from a more distant, less involved perspective. I am indeed 'confused' as you say. Hopefully, I will be able to get away for a few days before Christmas. My parents live abroad so I was hoping to visit them.

You're marvellous recent_star. I really appreciate your words/thoughts. A little animation for you:

:corkysm60::yay::corkysm60:


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

christmas is a long way off when one is dealing with the likely prospect of disloyalty in a marriage.

i know from my experiences i wouldn't have the patience to wait that long to sort things out, but that's me.

you are obvously a very patient woman, which is a wonderful trait that i admire greatly.

but in this case your patience may be working to your disadvantage.

:nono::fish::cat::nono::fish::cat::fish::nono:


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## Recovered (Oct 8, 2009)

Birdsong, from my own experience.....when you've been rejected....passively or purposely....on a repeated basis over a long period of time that tends to become my perceived reality.

As a result, things like "I haven't kissed you today" and "time for a hug" no longer carry meaning for me because I already expect that I'm going to be rejected and that I've become a 'task' in that person's day. 

After some therapy and personal soul searching and the like....it became clear to me that I was bringing a lot of those things on myself, even though I didn't want them. That pessimistic internal voice had taken such a prominent place in the dialogue in my head that I was rendered incapable of seeing displays of affection as anything positive.

You can't know what's in his head or his motivation when he does try to show you love and affection and make up for the past. For myself, I had created such a mess of baggage on my own side of the relationship in these types of situations that my wife had no chance regardless of what she did. I truly believed inside that I didn't deserve love and that I wasn't loved....and I colored everything around me with that paintbrush...a bleak existence indeed. Perhaps some counseling to look and see if those are the same things that might be going on with you would be my advice.

In my experience, salvation from my emotions has never been solved by changing some external condition in my life.


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## Birdsong (Aug 28, 2009)

Thank you for sharing your experience, Recovered. I can see how that could happen to a person in a relationship.

Thank you recent_cloud - as always!!

*I couldn't wait until Christmas!*

I had a long chat with H over a week ago on a Friday and told him how I'd been feeling for so many years. I didn't ask for his response at that time, just asked him to think about it, digest the info and come back to me when he was able. 

After a long weekend, he came back on the Monday and said he was ready to talk. He then told me honestly about his experience in our marriage and related it to what I had told him on the Friday.

The long and the short of it is, he said he thought the best way forward was to separate. As he saw it; I didn't get what I _needed_ from our relationship and he wasn't able to _give_ it. We chatted, we cried, but we totally agreed that separating was the right decision. 

The minute it was decided by us both that this would be the way forward, it felt like a huge weight had been lifted from our shoulders. I can't tell you how relieved I felt about it. That's not to say that it isn't sad that it came to this. We will always be friends - it's the one thing that we have always done well.

Since that Monday (19th October), we have begun telling friends and family. Very few people are surprised, which is very revealing. 

My parents are staying with us at present, and they are both being so supportive. My Mum is a very intuitive (and lovely) person. When we told her she just said "It's really sad, but I have this overwhelming feeling that this is _right_."

So, decision made, now onto practical considerations... At least I get to keep the dog! uppy: This isn't the end of heartache I know, but at least we are finally moving forward.

Thanks to everyone for your words and support...

:smnotworthy: :smnotworthy: :smnotworthy: :smnotworthy:


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## joevn (Oct 23, 2009)

Wow.

One thing that strikes me about your posts is how well you write and express your feelings. I have a hunch that this trait is important to you, and that unless you are in a verbally and emotionally expressive relationship, it's going to be unfulfilling for you. Not that it's a bad thing, just my one observation. There's someone out there for everyone. I hope you find yours.

Also, I appreciate your writing in. Husbands can read these posts and see a common thread running through these issues. Being emotionally distant is a recipe for dissatisfaction. This one sure brings it home for me.


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## Birdsong (Aug 28, 2009)

joevn said:


> I have a hunch that this trait is important to you, and that unless you are in a verbally and emotionally expressive relationship, it's going to be unfulfilling for you...
> 
> Also, I appreciate your writing in. Husbands can read these posts and see a common thread running through these issues. Being emotionally distant is a recipe for dissatisfaction. This one sure brings it home for me.


Thanks Joevn! 
Your words are spot on! I hadn't thought about it as clearly and concisely as this. Thank you. I will add it to my pot of self discovery and maybe one day I will meet a man who has similar attributes.. but then in the mean time I will just be me and enjoy the company of all my wonderful friends and family.

It would make me very happy if my story could act as an example for others and hopefully save a few marriages... Take care all!


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