# The conversations in my head...



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I was hoping to reach out once again for the collective wisdom on this board. Having made the decision not to reconcile with my WH (he had a 2 year affair and then trickle truthed me for another year) how do you stop the conversations in your head?

I've had so many during the last year, mostly dissecting what he said happened with what evidence I had found. Now those conversations have stopped but I have moved on to conversations trying to explain the damage that has been done and the reasons why I can't stay married.

Over and over I run the conversations...is this normal and if it is how do I stop it? How do I stop wanting to explain to him the devastation he caused? Is there a point when the noise stops? I need some help because it is maddening.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> How do I stop wanting to explain to him the devastation he caused?


It is normal. All of us who have endured an emotional trauma from adultery want so desperately for the adulterer to "get it".... why we're devastated....why we can't reconcile.... why we hurt....

I don't think you will stop wanting to explain. However, (and I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying it's quick) our recovery begins with a decision. The decision basically is, our adulterer DOESN'T CARE. Our adulterer is self-interested, totally. If we are hurt, if we are devastated, if we can never trust again, if we cannot forgive, the adulterer DOESN'T CARE. 

Adulterers are people who get what THEY want in the way that THEY want it, and have NO RESPECT for their spouse, for their spouse's emotional welfare, for their spouse's self-esteem, for their spouse's feelings.

All the next times you start to explain, give yourself a good mental picture of your adulterer saying "I don't care.".

Now, follow this good mental picture with an explanation to yourself, saying "...you had every good right to end your marriage....".


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TJW...some days it feels like an exercise in futility. When a thought pops in my head I have tried simply asking myself "How is this helping you"? It shuts down the internal dialog for a moment but it always creeps in again. I am afraid the year of trickle truth and the dialogs I ran over and over rewired my brain...no joke. I can't remember the last time I had a "normal" day without these conversations. 

You are so spot on...he does not care, he simply wanted it by his own admission to "go away". Thank you so much.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I was hoping to reach out once again for the collective wisdom on this board. Having made the decision not to reconcile with my WH (he had a 2 year affair and then trickle truthed me for another year) how do you stop the conversations in your head?
> 
> I've had so many during the last year, mostly dissecting what he said happened with what evidence I had found. Now those conversations have stopped but I have moved on to conversations trying to explain the damage that has been done and the reasons why I can't stay married.
> 
> Over and over I run the conversations...is this normal and if it is how do I stop it? How do I stop wanting to explain to him the devastation he caused? Is there a point when the noise stops? I need some help because it is maddening.


It is normal for as long as you allow it's normalcy... at some point you will need to move on from it.

We are not meant to remain stuck in our wounds... whether you are seeing it or not you are actually giving away control in your desire for him to see what he has caused. His lying to you was not for you but for him and his unmindful desires afraid of the consequences like your decision...

"Husband, your actions have created a place in our marriage that is irrevocably broken for the boundaries I have in how a marriage should be. Because I see your actions, and the actions you led afterwards I CHOOSE to not be with someone that would place a marriage in such a state. I no longer need to tell you how damaging this was, my actions will show how hurt and disappointed I am by ending this marriage in a way that is healthy and loving for me.

I thank you for the good, I forgive you for the things that were not that good as we move forward in this change that will be hard for both of us."

This is YOUR acceptance speech... it is not for him, it is for you.

Love yourself more, yes his actions hurt you but they far from define you... if ending it is the best thing for you, then hold your head high and let go of your suffering. 

As you walk away remember, he took the first step 3 years ago... take control of your journey.

Oh... and if you meditate I highly encourage some "double-down" time when the mind becomes too busy with those thoughts.

A new "rewiring" so to speak.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Wow Emerging Buddhist...I am literally weeping. You nailed me...Stuck in my wounds. I had not looked at it as giving away my control but you are right. 

I don't want this to define me, stuck in this never ending battle of the heart and head. 

I want to start a new life free of this pain and that acceptance speech says it all.

I do not meditate but I am absolutely open to it. I have a surgery next week and will have some down time while I recover, no better time to learn some skills that can quiet my mind.

If you have any recommendations for reading material I am all ears...Thank you


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I practice Mindfulness Meditation daily...

Mindfulness Meditation (Breathing Meditation)

Mindfulness Meditation is one of the most underrated tools to calm things that bring anxiety and stress…

Find a place you are comfortable and undistracted… you can be sitting or standing, in your car, at home, or on a quiet park bench, the key is being able to be at ease for the time you are breathing and calming.

Until you feel and know your natural rhythm for the silent count, a mental count may be required… some recommend keeping your eyes open and focused so you don’t relax too much but I find I focus best on breath when there are no visual distractions.

4 seconds in, hold for three, exhale slowly for 7...

On the four seconds in be sure not to rush drawing in the breath… the lungs need four full seconds to fill to capacity for any person. Once the breath is drawn in hold it for three seconds and let the blood pick up all the oxygen it can before starting the slow seven count and slowly release allowing the body the last of the oxygen and letting out the stress it collected in the exchange.

I actually know I have hit the mark when I feel a slight tingle at the base of the neck… that is my “zone” marker that tells me I am ready to allow the stress a quick exit and my rhythm is right, others may know by the muscles in the shoulders relaxing or some other sign… you will know. 

Repeat for 3-5 minutes of inhale, hold, and exhale in patient sequence… it is worth the effort.
---

Another is this short extract from "Buddha in Blue Jeans: An Extremely Short Zen Guide to Sitting Quietly and Being Buddha"

*Sit Quietly*
This is the most important Zen practice. 

It is the classroom for living a wise and kind life. 

Sit anywhere and be quiet: on a couch, a bed, a bench, inside, outside, leaning against a tree, by a lake, at the ocean, in a garden, on an airplane, in your office chair, on the floor, in your car. 

Meditation cushions are okay too. Sit at any time: morning, night, one minute, three years. 

Wear what you've got on. Loosen your waist so that your belly can move with your breath. Sit as relaxed as possible. Relax your muscles when starting and during sitting. 

Sit with your back straight but not stiff. Keep your head upright with your ears level. Respect all medical conditions. Only take a posture you can. 

All postures are okay. Do what you can do. 

Keep your eyes slightly opened and out of focus. Closing them will make you sleepy and sometimes busy. Opening them wide will keep you busy. 

Breathe naturally through your nose. Enjoy breathing. Feel your breath. Watch your breath. Become your breath. 

Be like a cat purring. 

Follow your breath like ocean waves coming in and out. When you get distracted, come back to the simplest and most basic experience of being alive, your breathing. 

That's it. No belief. No program. No dogma. You do not have to be Buddhist. You can be of any faith, religion, race, nationality, gender, relationship status, or capacity. 

Just sit quietly, connect with your breath, and pay attention to what happens. You will learn things. Do it when you want. You decide how much is enough for you. 

If you do it daily, it will get into your bones. Please enjoy sitting quietly! The only way to learn sitting quietly is to do it."
---
The whole book is free for Kindle.

I also recommend When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times (Shambhala Classics) by Pema Chodron (Author)

Pema's book is a great way to understand the calm your life needs when things seem to be "falling apart" all around you... I've read it a number of times and learn more though every reading.

Peace be with you my friend


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Thank you so much EB. Just reading the technique sounds relaxing! I will have plenty of time in the next few weeks to put this into daily practice...Thank you for the book recommendation I will order it today. Peace be with you as well.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I was hoping to reach out once again for the collective wisdom on this board. Having made the decision not to reconcile with my WH (he had a 2 year affair and then trickle truthed me for another year) how do you stop the conversations in your head?
> 
> I've had so many during the last year, mostly dissecting what he said happened with what evidence I had found. Now those conversations have stopped but I have moved on to conversations trying to explain the damage that has been done and the reasons why I can't stay married.
> 
> Over and over I run the conversations...is this normal and if it is how do I stop it? How do I stop wanting to explain to him the devastation he caused? Is there a point when the noise stops? I need some help because it is maddening.


Time.

It just takes time.

Time to get over the pain of being brutally betrayed. Time to firmly cement in your mind that you have full value, and if he refused to see it, too bad for him. Time to realize that you have better to look forward to.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blazer, I think I am struggling with feeling as if I have any value. As this all unfolded my daughter entered and graduated from college and will be moving out. I find myself wondering where everything went? Who will I be if not a wife and a mother? Such a 1950's cliché I am eh? 

I worked most of my married life but always jobs that suited running with kids, my WH career changes. I have a college degree and a long work history but how do you start a career at 52? How do I even know what I enjoy anymore when all I have felt is pain? I don't remember the sound of my own laughter.

My emotions are running a little high...nervous about an upcoming surgery and when I wake up in that recovery room I want to concentrate on not just a physical recovery but a mental one as well. I love the idea of meditation as EB has suggested and TJW is correct, I have to change what I say to myself...how much control I give away. 


I am still angry, mostly at myself for giving him another year to lie, another year I damaged myself. I hate feeling so out of touch like this.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Perhaps changing the way you are looking at it... you didn't give him another year to lie, you have given him another year to be a better him, loving-kindness is never squandered.

That he was not successful is not your's to own, what is your's to own are the lessons you learned from that year... you are in charge of your happiness now.

Him, not so much.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

EB, How you think is powerful and transitional...seeing the silver lining. How I want to find a fraction of that in my life. 

I struggle with how I behaved this last year, the tears and screaming...the constant back and forth of emotions. I want to come to a place of acceptance and be at peace with it. 3 years of chaos has changed the core of who I was...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Torninhalf said:


> Blazer, I think I am struggling with feeling as if I have any value. As this all unfolded my daughter entered and graduated from college and will be moving out. I find myself wondering where everything went? Who will I be if not a wife and a mother? Such a 1950's cliché I am eh?
> 
> I worked most of my married life but always jobs that suited running with kids, my WH career changes. I have a college degree and a long work history but how do you start a career at 52? How do I even know what I enjoy anymore when all I have felt is pain? I don't remember the sound of my own laughter.
> 
> ...


WOW I really can identify with this: in my first marriage my exH was cheating and wouldn't stop, and in one 24-hour day I lost everything I valued (my marriage, my family, and our business). I couldn't envision or imagine what life would be like or who I would be if not Mrs. ___, "mom" or the lady who ran __ business. In my second marriage, we had my two kids and his five...and so I did the same thing--working jobs that suited running with the kids--and my identity was essentially as "mom." When the youngest grew up and moved away, I couldn't envision WHO I would be! Not mom anymore...that's for sure! 

So in case you can't tell, @Torninhalf, I'm a lady of a certain age. I'm at that lovely "empty nest" stage and after my second hubby died, I really was without an anchor in some ways. But you know what I learned? What you will become ... will come. I know that sounds super cliche, but in some ways it has to do with who you are at your core, and what you love. Some doors and windows will fly open that have to do what what you love...and some will just as quickly slam shut. Just trust the process and follow what opens. What you will become is a clearer identity of YOU. 

Now, it might help to do some self-help or counseling to discover more of yourself and who you are at your true core. But it could also be as simple as taking the Myers-Briggs personality test and learning more about your own natural personality...and doing some other easy self-help reading or quizzes just to get to know your own self better. And what's funny, I've found, is that even when you think you've got it figured out, life will send you a surprise. And it will be something unexpected that actually makes you grow and stretch as a human. 

So my thought about "who will you be"? Have some faith in the process and just keep taking one step forward at a time. Take another step. One more. Keep taking steps. And you will become who you are.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I was hoping to reach out once again for the collective wisdom on this board. Having made the decision not to reconcile with my WH (he had a 2 year affair and then trickle truthed me for another year) how do you stop the conversations in your head?
> 
> I've had so many during the last year, mostly dissecting what he said happened with what evidence I had found. Now those conversations have stopped but I have moved on to conversations trying to explain the damage that has been done and the reasons why I can't stay married.
> 
> Over and over I run the conversations...is this normal and if it is how do I stop it? How do I stop wanting to explain to him the devastation he caused? Is there a point when the noise stops? I need some help because it is maddening.


What I am going to say sounds cliché and trite... But I believe it is the truth.

1) It takes time.
2) When you are done with the divorce, like everyone else, once you heal you will wonder why in the hell you waited so long. 
3) It takes time. 

And all of those thought you are having, you have to put them out of your mind. It gets easier with, you guessed it, TIME...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Affaircare, thank you so much for sharing your story. I am so sorry for your loss. What you say makes sense. I think I might want to become a PI since I unraveled this entire affair off of a text and one email exchange. LOL.

I have over the years, especially the last 3, lost any sense of direction...I always had a plan. I find myself without a plan and it is terrifying. I have to trust others who have walked this path before me...other than here I have talked to only one other person about this and it helps so much to hear stories of recovery. Thank you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues, if cliché and trite is what works bring it on. As I said before the chaos of trying to catch him, catching him and dragging the truth out has exhausted me and my mind still races...its not as bad as when I was trying to get the truth but I was hoping once I had made that decision completely I would feel better. 3 years is a long time to be in pain.

I so appreciate the advise...You all helped me so much while it was happening, I wish I had listened more and avoided some of the extra pain shopping but I was out of my mind...LOL. 


I am open to anything to help me move forward with grace.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

The tears and screaming were how you felt... they were honest and real for the moments you shed them and shed you did, letting go of those things that were hurting inside of you.

The problem is we often keep backfilling that hurt well past it's expiration date.

Things *are* hopeful... you are seeing your present and the choices before you, you are not changing the scenery of where you are... early 50's with a husband who elected to be unfaithful in his marriage... because you can't.

It is what it is.

This is not an illusion and from it your core has changed because you are far from the person surprised by this three years ago.

Your eyes are changing, you are seeing the reality of the hurt and the outcome before you... if you felt foolish or time was wasted, forgive yourself, look where you are today because you have taken steps to understand.

This is more powerful than you may realize...


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Blazer, I think I am struggling with feeling as if I have any value. As this all unfolded my daughter entered and graduated from college and will be moving out. I find myself wondering where everything went? Who will I be if not a wife and a mother? Such a 1950's cliché I am eh?
> 
> I worked most of my married life but always jobs that suited running with kids, my WH career changes. I have a college degree and a long work history but how do you start a career at 52? How do I even know what I enjoy anymore when all I have felt is pain? I don't remember the sound of my own laughter.
> 
> ...


The answer I would have is this...

Work on "you".

You had an identity as wife & mother and now it has to change to "me". It's time to discover what makes you happy. What brings you joy. Explore new hobbies. Not that it's easy, life seldom is. Do things, try and make friends, take a few risks. You're still relatively young. Like you, I lost the true love of my life in an instant and never saw it coming. I was lustfully in love. But I have a new life now and while it isn't perfect, I am content.. I had to go and find that new 'me'.

I wanted to post a link to the last Calvin & Hobbes comic strip, but I don't have enough cred. If you can find it, it's a snow scene. Follow Calvin's advice in the last panel/


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

EB..."So past it's expiration date"!! Truer words never spoken. I feel so different now than I did just a month back. Now that the truth is out, I have no more doubts that this marriage could ever be saved and it is freeing in a way. 

I have noticed in the morning when I wake up the pain is slower to arrive...if that makes sense. It does not flood in anymore...as you said it comes more like "It is what it is". 


I think because of the time since "D-Day" I feel I should be much further along. I will be mindful not to blame myself for giving him so many chances it was not a frailty on my part but his...thank you for that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blazer, sometimes I think I need to find the old me but creating a new one sounds more enticing. The old me was 17 when she met that 23 year old man, she is long gone.

After my surgery I plan on going back to the gym and get back on the treadmill. I use to run 30 miles a week before I got caught up in this trap...I don't strive for that but my goal is 4 months after surgery to be doing 2 miles a day. Slow and steady no crazy expectations.

I hate that I let that part of me go.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I went through this after my last divorce, when my XH dumped me to get back with his first wife. Every waking hour, those two horrible people were in my brain. I had dreams about them almost nightly, which for me was so crazy because I dont usually dream about things that are on my mind a lot. (usually something odd that I saw in passing, that kind of thing lol) It was torment. It finally dawned on me one day that, number one, they didnt think about me a single second of their day and that they didnt deserve that kind of space in my head... and number two, I was the only one who had any kind of control over my thoughts. Life was going on like normal around me while I was in turmoil in my mind. I started to tell myself STOP! every time I noticed my thoughts turning to them. I would even say it out loud, LOUDLY, to myself when I was alone. (even though that felt like a crazy person thing to do!) Weirdly enough, that eventually worked. It really does just take time. That and being mindful of where you keep your thoughts.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Blazer, sometimes I think I need to find the old me but creating a new one sounds more enticing. The old me was 17 when she met that 23 year old man, she is long gone.
> 
> After my surgery I plan on going back to the gym and get back on the treadmill. I use to run 30 miles a week before I got caught up in this trap...I don't strive for that but my goal is 4 months after surgery to be doing 2 miles a day. Slow and steady no crazy expectations.
> 
> I hate that I let that part of me go.


A good start!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Torninhalf, 

I am an oldie but a goodie, and I fully admit that one of my guilty pleasures is the good music I grew up on. In 1996, when this song came out, I had kids and a mortgage...but so much of what this artist had to say struck a chord with me. I'm listening to her today and wow these words! I thought I'd share them with you so you can hear them too: 


I, recommend getting your heart trampled on to anyone, yeah
I, recommend walking around naked in your living room, yeah

Swallow it down (what a jagged little pill)
It feels so good (swimming in your stomach)
Wait until the dust settles

You live you learn, you love you learn
You cry you learn, you lose you learn
You bleed you learn, you scream you learn

I, recommend biting off more than you can chew to anyone
I certainly do
I, recommend sticking your foot in your mouth at any time
Feel free

Throw it down (the caution blocks you from the wind)
Hold it up (to the rays)
You wait and see when the smoke clears

You live you learn, you love you learn
You cry you learn, you lose you learn
You bleed you learn, you scream you learn

I, I, oh, oh
Wear it out (the way a three-year-old would do)
Melt it down (you're gonna have to eventually, anyway)
The fire trucks are coming up around the bend

You live you learn, you love you learn
You cry you learn, you lose you learn
You bleed you learn, you scream you learn

You grieve you learn, you choke you learn
You laugh you learn, you choose you learn
You pray you learn, you ask you learn
You live you learn


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

3X, I am going to combine your STOP with HE DOES NOT CARE!! I have noticed that asking myself "if it helpful" sometimes resulted in "Well maybe..." LOL. So weird how I twist myself like a pretzel.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

AffairCare...LOVE Alanis Morissette...The lyrics ring so true. Will be my first song on my new "running" list. Can't start over using the old list can I? Thank you!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Quick note: WH stopped by to pick up a shirt he had left here. There have been some rumors at his job for the last month that people are being moved around and his post may change. I know it has been frustrating him...He says "It isn't right to keep people in the dark". I looked at his face to see if he made any connection to what he had just put me thru...None, Nada, Zero. I simply nodded and said "Time will tell"

They irony. {sigh}


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Torninhalf said:


> AffairCare...LOVE Alanis Morissette...The lyrics ring so true. Will be my first song on my new "running" list. Can't start over using the old list can I? Thank you!


When I was younger and in my prime...

I used to run about 3 miles a day. Now that I'm older and was considerably out-of-shape for many years, I've recently started over too, but I am walking. I don't mean "taking a stroll pleasantly through shaded avenues"...I mean walking to raise my heart rate! I started with a goal of 2000 steps per day, I won a Fitbit flex (the very first version), and I slowly built and built. Now, I walk about 4 miles a day and in spring, summer, and fall I participate in 5k races for charities that I care about. So it's a win/win: I train and walk and earn the shirt...they get my donation. 

And like you, I have a whole new music list. I personally enjoy Pharrell Williams "Happy", Bruno Mars "Marry You" (thinking of EB all the way, of course), Katy Perry "Firework" (because I am one), ZZ Top "Sharp Dressed Man" and "Legs," and Mark Ronson "Uptown Funk" 

Oh my God, I can't believe I admitted that in public! >


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Affaircare, consider them all added! You have given me hope, something I have been lacking. Something I had not even considered giving myself.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Quick note: WH stopped by to pick up a shirt he had left here. There have been some rumors at his job for the last month that people are being moved around and his post may change. I know it has been frustrating him...He says "It isn't right to keep people in the dark". I looked at his face to see if he made any connection to what he had just put me thru...None, Nada, Zero. I simply nodded and said "Time will tell"
> 
> They irony. {sigh}


This would be funny if it were not so sad... 

My Ex, even after the divorce keep complaining about how hard things were, you know working for a living. 

While she was married to me, she never had to work a single day. I too waited to hear how..., I don't know, she took what she had for granted or something. 

Nope, not one hint. Finally it just got to be too much, and I had to ask her to please stop telling me how hard things were. I was not her friend, I really did not want to hear her problems. I worked and supported her and my family for 26 years, I know how hard it was. 

I just did not want to hear how rough it was for her. Not my problem...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues, It is so odd. WH texted this morning he had another sleepless night. That he misses me. I am not even sure how to respond.

I will not fight with him anymore so "snarky" is out. I do want to scream yes I have had a few sleepless nights and I missed you while you were having an affair. I can't do that either...its odd how they don't see how the focus is still on them. 

I want to be civil. Show my daughter that I can pick my ass up from the sobbing mess I was and be strong and still kind. How do you get there?


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## Sauvie Island (Jul 4, 2018)

How do you get there?
You see this period for what it really is. Detach emotionally and jump from the hook...unfortunately, it's more a game than people realize. And as far as Alanis is concerned with your situation, how about the song "Uninvited".


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues, It is so odd. WH texted this morning he had another sleepless night. That he misses me. I am not even sure how to respond.
> 
> I will not fight with him anymore so "snarky" is out. I do want to scream yes I have had a few sleepless nights and I missed you while you were having an affair. I can't do that either...its odd how they don't see how the focus is still on them.
> 
> I want to be civil. Show my daughter that I can pick my ass up from the sobbing mess I was and be strong and still kind. How do you get there?


It's not odd and this is his way of still keeping you thinking about him. He's still in your life too much, you mentioned earlier he stopped to get a shirt. If he has anything left behind pack it up and get it gone. Don't respond to texts like he sent this am, it's irrelevant now. This isn't being mean or unkind and if he views it that way too bad.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Sauvie, it does seem to be a game...one I didn't want to play but I will.

Great tune. He is uninvited. Thank you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Honcho, I am having surgery next week and he will be helping me till I get on my feet. Unfortunately I have no family to help so I have to keep things a little more open. He is moving into a permanent apartment the Monday following the surgery as he has been staying with friends. He knows I am done, I think he senses it finally. My body language alone has always spoken volumes. 

He still wants to reconcile, he says everything a remorseful spouse can say but I am moving towards indifference which feels so much better than the love/hate I have had up until now. 

I can't thank y'all enough. I was hesitant to start a new thread but I need help...not to proud to ask.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

For years I had conversations with myself in the car. They were usually about situations where I wish I could say things, but I was conflict avoidant and would never say them. Sometimes the things I'd say in the car were things that no one should ever say to another, lol.

Two things helped. 

1.) Working on myself: Learning to not be conflict avoidant, and to speak my mind, appropriately, and without fear at the moment things need to be said. Detaching from things and people I can't do anything about. Taking care of myself and my boundaries. (This is where EB's mindfulness can also help.)

2.) Taking an antidepressant. 17 years ago, before I learned to fix myself the antidepressant not only helped me not be depressed, but stopped my mind from racing. Later when I wasn't depressed anymore, and went off the antidepressant, the racing thoughts and conversations didn't come back completely. As I worked on myself the conversations became less frequent because I say what I need to say at the time it needs to be said.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I was hoping to reach out once again for the collective wisdom on this board. Having made the decision not to reconcile with my WH (he had a 2 year affair and then trickle truthed me for another year) how do you stop the conversations in your head?
> 
> I've had so many during the last year, mostly dissecting what he said happened with what evidence I had found. Now those conversations have stopped but I have moved on to conversations trying to explain the damage that has been done and the reasons why I can't stay married.
> 
> Over and over I run the conversations...is this normal and if it is how do I stop it? How do I stop wanting to explain to him the devastation he caused? Is there a point when the noise stops? I need some help because it is maddening.


It is very normal. You are actually reaching out (by reaching in) for the guidance of the one person who should know what is best for you. Your authentic, inner you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Matt, that is part of the problem...I have no idea who I am. I know I don't like who I have become, what this affair has done to me. I have been on this rollercoaster and it's not a fun ride. I feel like my mind betrays me when the conversations start.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Blazer, I think I am struggling with feeling as if I have any value. As this all unfolded my daughter entered and graduated from college and will be moving out. I find myself wondering where everything went? Who will I be if not a wife and a mother? Such a 1950's cliché I am eh?
> 
> I worked most of my married life but always jobs that suited running with kids, my WH career changes. I have a college degree and a long work history but how do you start a career at 52? How do I even know what I enjoy anymore when all I have felt is pain? I don't remember the sound of my own laughter.
> 
> ...


Torninhalf, what you are going through is completely normal, more-so because of the stage of life you are in (menopausal) and because you have to deal with empty nest and the reality that the life you thought you would have going into retirement, the dreams you had, etc are not happening the way expected. Our expectations often set us up for disappointment. You should not be so hard on yourself. Take one day at a time, you will get through this, you will build a new life, day by day, enjoy each moment of living. Surround yourself with friends, family, the things you want to do, be kind to yourself, pamper yourself, remembering you can only change you. There is no point in trying to get your WH to understand, if he was the kind of person who could understand or empathise with your pain and the damage done, he would never have done it in the first place. Don’t waste your energy on him, on thoughts that do not build you up.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Aine, The part that seems to be so difficult is my inability to really accept who my WH really is. How did I not see it all these years?

Sadly I have no family, just my children. I moved a few years back across the country and unfortunately have not made any friends that I trust with all of this...I do feel very isolated and am so grateful to have the posters here. 

Speaking to your last sentence, not to waste energy on thoughts that do not build me up seems so simple but very hard in practice. I was gaslighted pretty badly and still have issues with not calling myself crazy now. Infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving eh?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, it's very hard to move beyond infidelity. And it will take over your life if you let it. The key is not to let that happen. I was married a very long time before everything changed and I had to completely rebuild my life. Was that easy? Certainly not. Can it be done? Absolutely. It takes a lot of time and energy and effort and it's full of ups and downs but it can successfully be done. 

At the end of each day I look for one thing -- no matter how small it might be -- that I conside progress that day on the road to a new me. Some days are more difficult than others but I never end the day without finding it and feeling good about it. Maybe it's incorporating a new healthy food into my diet. Maybe it's losing a pound. Maybe it's a new exercise. Maybe it's walking a few minutes longer. Maybe it's reading a new book. Maybe it's focusing more on my family. Maybe it's spending a little extra time with my pets. Maybe it's a random act of kindness. Maybe it's journaling my thoughts so I can see the progress I'm making. The possibilities are endless. At times it's easy to find lots of things that I consider progress but not always. I continue to do it, years after my divorce, because I enjoy seeing progress. 

My life matters. Yours does too.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded. I made a promise to myself that I would strive to do better everyday. Some days I can feel a backslide and I beat myself up. Your way sounds much more productive. I will take your advise...keeping a journal is something I have considered and I think I will do just that. I use to keep running logs so I could see my progress and it was empowering. Thank you for that suggestion.

I feel very tired today, emotionally spent. I'm scared about my surgery, that something bad is going to happen...just my mind messing with me I suppose. 

I am off to the hospital for my pre-op tests. Fingers crossed that all goes well. I appreciate all the advise and words of encouragement from everyone...I don't feel so alone. Thank you.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues, It is so odd. WH texted this morning he had another sleepless night. That he misses me. I am not even sure how to respond.
> 
> I will not fight with him anymore so "snarky" is out. I do want to scream yes I have had a few sleepless nights and I missed you while you were having an affair. I can't do that either...its odd how they don't see how the focus is still on them.
> 
> I want to be civil. Show my daughter that I can pick my ass up from the sobbing mess I was and be strong and still kind. How do you get there?


I am not saying that you need to be a rude as I have been with mine. I will say that I tried to be nicer several times. She just would not get the message. 

For me, I tried to avoid being in a position for her to use me as an emotional tampon, sorry for the reference, but she did not get it. 

In fact, the last conversation we had about her commiseration with me was far less polite that the one I recounted here... 

You might try, if you care to, to say exactly what you said here, "You know, I worried and lost sleep when you were having your affair, I understand how difficult that can be." Or, "I am sorry that things are rough for you right now, but you need to understand that these difficulties are a result of the choices that you made." 

And then, whether he gets it or not, you have said your piece.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Best of luck with your surgery!

When you are recovered, I hope you will continue on the path of self-care. I know that the shock of the cheating and lying can put you on a disorienting roller coaster of reactions and emotions, but I also know that this gradually eases as you make new, more self-affirming memories for yourself.

For me, I want peace in my life. This requires that I can live in my own skin without a constant, punishing refrain in my head about my choices, actions, or relationships. I want to be able to define for myself how I have that peace. I want to be able to respect myself, to live with myself. Respecting the person I am brings me peace.

I think it's hard to maintain your self-respect when you know that the person closest to you is an abject liar who has made you feel like a chump. Having the drama of that person out of your everyday life can do wonders for so many things, including esp. the reestablishment of the solid, positive, peaceful mind.

Their horrible actions control so much. In my opinion, the roller coaster means that you are on the path to blocking that control. You're gradually rewriting your mental script so that he controls less and less of it. Eventually, you'll get to that 'peace of mind' moment in which you know you are completely unhitched from him and you have your own life, one in which you have chosen not to be devalued by someone who didn't care at all that he was hurting you. You were not even a speck on the wall of his conscience while he was cheating. When he isn't even a speck on the wall of your life is when, in my opinion, you will be off the roller coaster. You're getting there. You will get there.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Matt, that is part of the problem...I have no idea who I am. I know I don't like who I have become, what this affair has done to me. I have been on this rollercoaster and it's not a fun ride. *I feel like my mind betrays me when the conversations start*.


Torn, this is not it at ALL. You are an intelligent person -- what you are doing is working through a TERRIBLE experience. You NEED to think through this stuff - by self-reflection, you will grow from this. You will find what you need for your life by going through this. At the same time, you don't want to have NOTHING but these thoughts, and that will come in time as you process all this. 

This type of learning is not fast (and usually not pleasant), but it is important.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues, It is so odd. WH texted this morning he had another sleepless night. That he misses me. I am not even sure how to respond.
> 
> I will not fight with him anymore so "snarky" is out. I do want to scream yes I have had a few sleepless nights and I missed you while you were having an affair. I can't do that either...its odd how they don't see how the focus is still on them.
> 
> I want to be civil. Show my daughter that I can pick my ass up from the sobbing mess I was and be strong and still kind. How do you get there?


Someone probably has already said this, but I would tell your husband clearly and concisely that he has forfeited the right to have your support. He needs to find someone else to text about his sleepless nights. Then just cease responding.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blues, sage advise as always. I am trying to move away from the anger, I have been tossed around by it for so long. It's not as easy as I had hoped and I am so afraid I will die a bitter old woman. I am trying to do better for me even when the anger seems more comfortable...like an old pair of slippers if that makes sense.

Dame, you hit on something so paramount...my self value. I put so much value on my ability to care for my home, the people in it...their happiness made me feel as if I had value. All of that is gone and taken in a way that made me question decades of sacrifice and hard work. I still have thoughts of "What could I have done"? "What did I do wrong"? I know those questions are asinine but they still sit in the back of my mind.

JLG, I do feel I did need to work thru those thoughts...I am analytical, probably what made me become so crazed by the obvious lies. I just want them to stop. It became such a habit and it is so hard to break away from the constant intrusion.

Personofinterest...I do have to be much firmer in my responses, I am not sure why it is difficult. 35 years with one person and then it is gone...

I was raised in a foster home by a foster mother who was not particularly kind. I don't attach to people very quickly and I think perhaps I tolerate certain abuses more easily than others. It is something I have struggled with my entire life. Something I should have examined long before now.

The pre-op testing went well other than my BP is sky high but I think that is probably quite normal. Knowing y'all are here helps me tremendously, I thank you very much.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Blues, It is so odd. WH texted this morning he had another sleepless night. That he misses me. I am not even sure how to respond.
> 
> I will not fight with him anymore so "snarky" is out. I do want to scream yes I have had a few sleepless nights and I missed you while you were having an affair. I can't do that either...its odd how they don't see how the focus is still on them.
> 
> I want to be civil. Show my daughter that I can pick my ass up from the sobbing mess I was and be strong and still kind. How do you get there?


You can establish a boundary and tell him that you are not his friend anymore. You don't want to know anything personal about him whether it is about how he slept or his work. He also told you his frustration about work. That needs to stop. He is trying to reel you back in and he has you on a yo-yo. You need distance and to be left alone to heal.



Torninhalf said:


> I am afraid the year of trickle truth and the dialogs I ran over and over rewired my brain...no joke.


Torninhalf, I went back and read some of your first thread. Your husband gaslit you for three years. The last year you knew he was having an affair, and even had evidence and he would convince you that you were wrong. He called you crazy, blamed your drinking, etc. and at times had you convinced that you were the problem, that there was no affair going on. He laughed at you and belittled you for your suspicions. You lived in this craziness for a long time.

Messing with someone's perceptions (gaslighting) and convincing them that they can't trust their own mind is malicious. When it goes on for a long period of time it can rewire one's personality and make them feel like they need people's approval and validation because their opinion or perception is not good enough to stand alone.

IMO the voices in your head may be residual fallout from the gaslighting. Are you talking to yourself to convince yourself (and him) that you are not crazy, and that you have good reasons for feeling and doing things? Do you still desperately want him to understand your side of things. Do you need his validation?

When you trust your perceptions and feel like you don't owe him or anyone else an explanation and you don't need his validation the self talk might end.

Find your strength, trust yourself. Tell him to **** himself. He lied to you for so long and tried to play with your mind. He doesn't get to call you, ever, about his personal issues. He had a bad night. Boo hoo. You don't care. And you have a right not to care. He is having trouble at work. That's not your problem. He needs to suck up and live the life he caused by his behavior and leave you alone so you can build a new life and find your new self without his influence.

He is not going to like your telling him that he is not your friend and not to call you or tell you anything personal anymore. He will try to manipulate you into thinking that you are wrong for feeling that way. Tell him that you don't care what he thinks, because what he things doesn't matter anymore.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Arau, every single thing you said is on point. I do think that my "wiring" has forever been changed by the gas lighting...it is so insidious. It is sickening when I think back to some of the fights. I don't know why I feel the need that he understands, as it has been pointed out he does not care anyway. I don't want to want his validation anymore. 


I have to grow a stronger backbone and perhaps live in the uncomfortableness that not having his validation brings until it is no longer uncomfortable. 


I think he still thinks I will come around and take him back. He said the other day he hopes I can learn to put the demons that he created away someplace, not just for him but for me. I thought the word "learn" was so odd, WTF all of it is odd.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm sorry, I didn't read all your threads, just part of the first one. Are you and he trying to be "friends"?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I am not so sure we are trying to be friends as we are trying not to be enemies. The last year was horrific...our fights were vicious and I want a complete reversal on that front.


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## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

Is it possible to keep the communication only to official business (children, finances, divorce details)?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Secondwind, unfortunately the next week or so will be tough as he is going to stay here for a few days after my surgery. I am hoping by next Sunday I will be able to manage alone. He has been staying with friends and has a place leased for the 15th.

I need to establish clear boundaries. He is hoping with time apart that we can think about reconciliation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I know what it's like not to know who *you* are. I married very young and although I always had a career to focus on, my real focus was on my husband and my child and my home. I never put myself first -- I couldn't even imagine doing that. My life was always about them. 

My child was well into adulthood, with children, when I divorced and for the first time since I was a teenager my focus was now on me. But I hadn't been that teenager for many decades and I had no idea who I was beyond a wife and a mother and a grandmother. I had to learn to be me. Now my life is much different and I love it. You'll love yours too.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded, I am so glad to hear that you love your life! I know I have let fear of the unknown keep me in a place that causes me daily harm. Why do humans do that? They know things are bad yet the fear of what could be is worse. I can only imagine worse for me at this point is my fear of eating cat food at 65. 

I worked and planned this life and it petrifies me that I will see so little of its fruits down the line.


I have to let that go, I have always managed the money, in good times and in bad. I have to believe that I can manage.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Fear of the unknown keeps too many people in dysfunctional relationships. That was definitely part of the reason I remained for so long in mine.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

For many decades I led a "big" life. Now I don't. Do I miss it? Not at all. My money -- such as it is -- is finally 100% under my control and I do with it as I please. Peace of mind comes with that. 

I found that making lists of things I needed to do and lists of things I wanted to do helped me to focus while I was in the process of getting out. I bought a pretty journal from the book store and wrote anything and everything related to my future life in it. I ran across it the other day and remembered all the hope I had poured into it during that time. It made me smile to see it again.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I find myself without a plan and it is terrifying.


Not my intent to be the annoying "but the glass is half full!" person. I get that not having a plan for your life is terrifying. But it is also exciting! You can do whatever you want! The world is your oyster. You'll get there.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded, I think it is an excellent idea to put down on paper my goals, my needs, how I can go about obtaining them. It will be an odd experience as I always made plans for 4 never for 1. 

Lucy, not annoying at all. I do need to flip my script and look at things thru the lens of me getting a second chance instead of focusing on the loss. That is where I have been stuck. I appreciate your confidence in me.

I have a bad habit of still checking phone logs and WH google account. It is something I need to stop but I feel a tad out of control when I don't. I know it still gives him the power...I should not care but I still do it. How do I break that habit?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, it will seem odd in the beginning to focus only on yourself. I had always made plans for three and it was an adjustment to instead make plans for one but I learned to enjoy the freedom that was there. 

It can be difficult to stop checking on him once that becomes a habit. I managed to stop by constantly reminding myself that I was leaving him and what he did was no longer my concern. It wasn't easy but eventually I stopped caring even a little about what he did (which was a great deal of really stupid stuff).


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded, I don't check nearly as much as I use to so that is progress. 

So much great advise, tips and tricks. I am a planner by nature so having the tools ready when I need them are paramount. 

Thanks to everyone who responded, I appreciate y'all taking the time out of your lives to assist a complete stranger.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I have a bad habit of still checking phone logs and WH google account. It is something I need to stop but I feel a tad out of control when I don't. I know it still gives him the power...I should not care but I still do it. How do I break that habit?


I get why you do it.

Tell yourself to stop pain shopping. Because that's what you're doing. When your fingers feel itchy and want to snoop, stand up and say aloud, STOP IT TORN IN HALF! And go for a walk, call a friend, do something tangible. Shake it off. You can do it! We understand. We've been there.


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