# Retroactive Jealousy



## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Unless one grows up in a traditional village in one of the “‘Stan” countries where girls are locked up in their homes and then sold to their adult cousin at 14, men are simply going to have to learn to live with the reality that in western societies women have free choice and sexual agency and do not owe anyone their virginity.
> 
> As a society we can go back to arranged marriage at 14 or men can learn to adapt to the fact an adult woman has probably had some prior exist experiences.
> 
> ...


You trying to replace one extreme with another. nobody is advocating for arranged marriage or locking girls in some sort of cage or selling them to the highest bidder for marriage. but advocating ****ing around, unchecked hook up culture is equally bad and damaging.

Even in our rotten troubled western society most normal men and women a like want to have committed relationship, want to feel special for their partners, not some sort of sexual statistics, they want to be one and only for the person they love.

Nobody advocates for girls to be abstinent or waiting until marriage. What normal responsible parents try to teach their children is that sex is a wonderful thing, it is irreplaceable part of true love between two people. But it should be approached responsibly, it should come after establishing this serious relationship and falling in love, not before it.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> I am glad that I neither have children and am old enough that I won't see the worst of societal decay due to its inability to keep it in their pants.
> I am sad for the future of the children.


According to one of my sons, half the kids in his previous grade were already having sex. At age 12... Yes, they could be lying but he doesn't seem to think so and neither do I (I'm sure _some_ do lie).

I have walked my kids home from school and frequently heard 5th and 6th graders talking about porn, hookers, blowjobs, gangbangs, anal, etc. They talk about it like it's nothing, and I've heard some actual experiences. The girls dress like... well, I'm not allowed to say what they dress like but nothing is left to the imagination. My son was at a pool party over the summer and most of the kids were 12. These 12 year old girls were wearing thong or cheeky bum bikini bottoms and the thin bikini tops that barely cover the nipples. All they talked about was who doesn't have boobs yet, who hasn't started their period yet, who is doing who, etc. Some of those girls have 1500+ followers on Instagram, which is FULL of bikini pictures, showing off their asses, etc. And their parents know about it and show them off.

It's a ****ed up world. Always has been though, just in different ways.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

bobert said:


> According to one of my sons, half the kids in his previous grade were already having sex. At age 12... Yes, they could be lying but he doesn't seem to think so and neither do I (I'm sure _some_ do lie).
> 
> I have walked my kids home from school and frequently heard 5th and 6th graders talking about porn, hookers, blowjobs, gangbangs, anal, etc. They talk about it like it's nothing, and I've heard some actual experiences. The girls dress like... well, I'm not allowed to say what they dress like but nothing is left to the imagination. My son was at a pool party over the summer and most of the kids were 12. These 12 year old girls were wearing thong or cheeky bum bikini bottoms and the thin bikini tops that barely cover the nipples. All they talked about was who doesn't have boobs yet, who hasn't started their period yet, who is doing who, etc. Some of those girls have 1500+ followers on Instagram, which is FULL of bikini pictures, showing off their asses, etc. And their parents know about it and show them off.
> 
> It's a ****ed up world. Always has been though, just in different ways.


Those pushing this agenda want to return to the days of Rome, where children and the powerless could be used as playthings by the powerful.
It was quite common, if you owned slaves, to just bend them over, when you had an urge, and relieve yourself.

Jewish tradition holds that the complete absence of sexual morality and turning the common person into sexual toys for the powerful is what was behind God ending the Antediluvian world with a flood. If true, this is where we are, or very close to it.

Nephilim: Fallen Angels, Giants or Men? - Parshah Focus - Parshah (chabad.org)


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I’m going to agree with you on this one.
> 
> All choices and actions do have rewards and trade offs.
> 
> ...


You will be very surprised how few and far between these men are.



oldshirt said:


> The question that remains to be seen is how young adult males today will adapt to the changing social and economic climates and sexual tolerances of today vs the sexual temperaments of previous generations.


You cannot undo millennia of biological evolution which includes drive, desire and preference in a species by social engineering like the introduction of 2nd, 3rd and fourth wave feminism without largely excluding the strongest genes from the gene pool.

Men expressing strong masculine genetic traits are withdrawing their genes from the gene-pool as far as purposefully building families and having kids with a devoted wife is concerned since they cannot abide by the so-called "sexual-tolerances" which is simply a NEWSPEAK euphemism for blatant immorality, thus leaving weakly expressed male traits to be the ones that reproduces more and more frequently. What a weak and ripe for conquest Western civilization we espouse by our current morals and how spectacular in it's cowardice the fall of our once great society.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> You will be very surprised how few and far between these men are.
> 
> 
> You cannot undo millennia of biological evolution which includes drive, desire and preference in a species by social engineering like the introduction of 2nd, 3rd and forth wave feminism without excluding the strongest genes from the gene pool.
> ...


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> There is also a correlation between between how many sexual partners a woman has and her ability to commit to one guy.
> You'll probably find that the majority of women, who have multiple sex partners before they marry, are the ones that we are reading about having affairs on their men.


Holy Crap!!


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> There is also a correlation between between how many sexual partners a woman has and her ability to commit to one guy.
> You'll probably find that the majority of women, who have multiple sex partners before they marry, are the ones that we are reading about having affairs on their men.


Uh, there are plenty of stories about men marrying virgins and they cheat because they want to see what they missed out on.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> Holy Crap!!


You think you can turn off your desire for variety and seeking better, just because you get married?
To be clear, my standard is the same for men and women. I'm not having expectations of women that I don't think men should be hold as well.
But I do believe that infidelity in relationships affect women, in the long term, more than men.


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## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Happy marriage can only be built on complete honesty and transparency. Nothing should be off limits and there should be no secrets.


There are no secrets. My husband knows all of my past. Everything my H asked me I answered. I just wonder if some do not need specifics. My h never asked for a number.. and honestly I never counted.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

This thread is so disrespectful to women. 

I've never felt so objectified in my life!! And by prude, inexperienced men!!!!

You guys are talking as if women weren't present here reading all these outrageous posts. 

Keep posting all your stupid graphs and studies as if we women were so stupid to not know what we're doing. 

We also have brains between our ears, you know!!!!

This is beyond disrespectful. 

Thank God I married a VERY experienced alpha man.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

bobert said:


> Uh, there are plenty of stories about men marrying virgins and they cheat because they want to see what they missed out on.


Some research will show that that is far less likely to occur than a women with much more experience to do the same or simply file for divorce. The correlation between the amount of pre-marital sexual partners and the likelihood for the woman and to a far lesser but still measurable degree men ending the marriage is far too well documented to be dismissed as a major factor in causation.

The excuse of wanting other experiences in a virgin bride is far less frequent than people who frequent forums like this would think and even here, it rates high in impact as an example of "man bites dog". Statistically speaking a man is far less likely to be divorced or cheated on by a virgin bride. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but as in everything it is always wiser to bet the odds.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> This thread is so disrespectful to women.
> 
> I've never felt so objectified in my life!! And by prude, inexperienced men!!!!
> 
> ...


It's not disrespectful. Nobody is trying to control anybody here.
You can celebrate the sexual freedom all you, but you cannot celebrate the sexual freedom and having no consequences from that.
Our biological impulses were created for a reason and you can't blame anybody desiring to fulfill their natural born desires.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> This thread is so disrespectful to women.
> 
> I've never felt so objectified in my life!! And by prude, inexperienced men!!!!
> 
> ...


Facts show neither respect nor disrespect, they simply are. Openly stating preferences is simply stating facts which are quite neutral to the sensibilities of any individual.

Disrespect is an individual trying to shut down a discussion or censor it's contents because it does not sit well with their personal or group sensibilities.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> Uh, there are plenty of stories about men marrying virgins and they cheat because they want to see what they missed out on.


I don’t think that is even about seeing what they missed out on most of the time. 

I think it’s because people have sex and they don’t always limit it to just one person throughout their lives and they don’t always limit it to the one they’re “supposed” to only have it with.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t think that is even about seeing what they missed out on most of the time.
> 
> I think it’s because people have sex and they don’t always limit it to just one person throughout their lives and they don’t always limit it to the one they’re “supposed” to only have it with.


There is also the fact that, just because one person is a virgin, does not mean the partner did not engage in practices, previous to the relationship, that created neural pathways to desire sex outside a marriage. 

It's not right when that happens.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> I can tell you how it's going to end, badly.
> One the strengths of Western society has been its sexual mores. There is a correlation between a society's ability to advance and controlling its sexual impulses.
> Ethika Politika | On Civilizations and Sex
> 
> ...


All societies rise and then ultimately fall. 

Those that survive and flourish in the new order and the ones that adapt. 

Conservatism and liberalism/permissiveness both wax and wane and swing back and forth over time.

I’m 57 year old and have heard all these arguments before since I was a little kid. 

My dad and his cronies all thought the world had come to an end with Woodstock and guys growing long hair and doctors prescribing birth control pills to unmarried women. 

My wise ol’ school marm mother thought television was the worst thing to ever be introduced into society. 

Your “society is falling” rhetoric has been shouted from the roof tops with each generation - - yet here we are.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> All societies rise and then ultimately fall.
> 
> Those that survive and flourish in the new order and the ones that adapt.
> 
> ...


It's the morality that causes them to rise and fall. They don't rise and fall by happenstance.

There is no such thing as a new order. What happens is that the society falls and people suffer greatly and that society is reborn with repentance and re-adoption of the mores that built them and kept them strong. There is no such thing as an alternative morality that works. It just gets renewed, after much repentance over the consequences of having rejected it.

Up until about 1970's, society in general did keep the morality, at least openly. So, we are only into 50 years of experimenting with an alternative morality. I think it's going badly myself.

I agree with your mom about tv. I quit watching tv in 2004 and I haven't missed it yet. I can honestly say that I haven't watched a full episode of anything since then. Just snippets of the most popularized pop culture.

You're right. Here we are. We have broken homes, broken children, broken men, broken women. We are distrustful of each other and many of us here want to impose almost impossible conditions on our spouses, to protect ourselves.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> There is also the fact that, just because one person is a virgin, does not mean the partner did not engage in practices, previous to the relationship, that created neural pathways to desire sex outside a marriage.
> 
> It's not right when that happens.


I have no idea what you’ve just said.

I’m not saying anything is “right.”

I’m saying things are what they are. 

Very very very very few people live out their whole lives only having sex with one person. 

And truth be known, I sure those few people that have, wish they had had more options and opportunities. 

You all keep talking about nature and evolution etc etc but you also need to keep in mind that marriage and monogamy etc are man-made constructs. 

And not only were they man-made constructs but they were made to benefit the lesser male. 

In a completely natural state without any rule of law or social order, most males would probably not have mates at all. 

All this crap you’ve been talking about from female notch counts to cheating and infidelity etc is all about how the lesser males can obtain and keep females around for him.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

jonty30 said:


> It's not disrespectful. Nobody is trying to control anybody here.
> You can celebrate the sexual freedom all you, but you cannot celebrate the sexual freedom and having no consequences from that.
> Our biological impulses were created for a reason and you can't blame anybody desiring to fulfill their natural born desires.
> 
> View attachment 80143


Do you think women are not aware of the consequences?? Because you guys are talking about women and their sex life as if we were not in control of it. 

Women are in control of their bodies. We know the consequences of our actions. We know what we want. Don't feel sorry for us and our decisions. 

How many women were "used" for the study? 

Tell me, how many women in your circle are unhappy with their sexual past?


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> All societies rise and then ultimately fall.
> 
> Those that survive and flourish in the new order and the ones that adapt.
> 
> ...


It's exactly this devil may care attitude that leads to societies falling.

Your father and mother both were correct in that they identified changes to society containing the seeds of it's destruction as both tools to bring it about and as symptoms of it's decline.

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it and no-one is as blind as he who refuses to see; but perhaps more pertinent to this is that all that evil requires to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

I paraphrased well known quotes as they contain the wisdom people willfully turn their backs on. Age does not guarantee wisdom, sometimes it signifies surrender which is only rarely a wise course of action.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Dictum Veritas said:


> It's exactly this devil may care attitude that leads to societies falling.
> 
> Your father and mother both were correct in that they identified changes to society containing the seeds of it's destruction as both tools to bring it about and as symptoms of it's decline.
> 
> ...


Liberals do not recognize consequences, until it is too late.
They think that people can overcome their biological desires and leave them behind, just like that. *snap
The reality is that such a casual mindset has led to treating marriage as casually as well.
Hence, all the threads in TAM about partners not caring about the marriage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Liberals do not consequences, until it is too late.
> They think that people can overcome their biological desires and leave them behind, just like that. *snap
> The reality is that such a casual mindset has led to treating marriage as casually as well.
> Hence, all the threads in TAM about partners not caring about the marriage.


You know, human beings can use their brain and control their "biological desires" or whatever that is. Most human beings are decent and do not treat marriage casually. You are, as usual, generalising and projecting your beliefs, making them the norm, which is not.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> You know, human beings can use their brain and control their "biological desires" or whatever that is. Most human beings are decent and do not treat marriage casually. You are, as usual, generalising and projecting your beliefs, making them the norm, which is not.


Oh sure they can. However, treating sex so casually means that marriage itself is not meaningful.
Of course people treat marriage as nothing special, hence the 50%+ divorce rate.
It's perfunctory and nothing more than that.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Oh sure they can. However, treating sex so casually means that marriage itself is not meaningful.
> Of course people treat marriage as nothing special, hence the 50%+ divorce rate.
> It's perfunctual and nothing more than that.


This is all in your head. Just because you've had multiple sex partners doesn't mean you are going to treat your marriage casually. And you really think that the 50% divorce rate is due to people not taking their marriage seriously because of their multiple sex partners before marriage? To be honest, these assumptions are simply laughable.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> This is all in your head. Just because you've had multiple sex partners doesn't mean you are going to treat your marriage casually. And you really think that the 50% divorce rate is due to people not taking their marriage seriously because of their multiple sex partners before marriage? To be honest, these assumptions are simply laughable.


Not really. There is magic line in marriage, if you were so casual about it beforehand. 
50%+ divorce rate would speak against your words that marriage, in a secular world, is anything special. 
I've read enough threads here to know that most people fantasize about past partners when having sex with their spouse, so those very sexually experienced are inviting unwanted visitors into the bedroom more often than not.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> Not really. There is magic line in marriage, if you were so casual about it beforehand.
> 50%+ divorce rate would speak against your words that marriage, in a secular world, is anything special.
> I've read enough threads here to know that most people fantasize about past partners when having sex with their spouse, so those very sexually experienced are inviting unwanted visitors into the bedroom more often than not.


Wow, I really don't know what to say about this. I can't believe you really believe in this stuff.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Wow, I really don't know what to say about this. I can't believe you really believe in this stuff.


I understand your secular mindset and wanting to bring meaninglessness.

If you've never had chocolate cake before and, for the first time in your life, somebody gave you a black forest cherry cake. That would be a very special slice of cake. I think you would agree with that.
However, if you've had 1000 slices, over your lifetime, of chocolate cake. How special is that slice of black forest cherry cake going to be to you?

That doesn't mean that you cannot make holy what was made profane. Do not misunderstand me that. Very much so, one can make holy from the profane if one repents and honours the marriage. 
It is the repentance of the past that repairs things.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> I understand your secular mindset and wanting to bring meaninglessness.
> 
> If you've never had chocolate cake before and, for the first time in your life, somebody gave you a black forest cherry cake. That would be a very special slice of cake. I think you would agree with that.
> However, if you've had 1000 slices, over your lifetime, of chocolate cake. How special is that slice of black forest cherry cake going to be to you?
> ...


Well, if you go all religious on me, we can forget about it. I don't think there is any point in discussing this with you, because we'll never agree.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> All societies rise and then ultimately fall.
> 
> Those that survive and flourish in the new order and the ones that adapt.
> 
> ...


Remember when Rock 'N Roll was supposed to bring about the 2nd Coming? Oh, you may be too young to remember that period of parental hysteria.


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## Cindywife (Nov 5, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> Liberals do not recognize consequences, until it is too late.
> They think that people can overcome their biological desires and leave them behind, just like that. *snap
> The reality is that such a casual mindset has led to treating marriage as casually as well.
> Hence, all the threads in TAM about partners not caring about the marriage.


Liberals do want to destroy the family unit. they want to go back to the days were the powerful can have slaves: the working class.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*MODERATOR NOTE:- *This thread has been threadjacked to **** to the extent that it is totally unrelated to "Retroactive Jealousy."

As a result, this thread is now closed to further replies.


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