# Dont love him anymore.. but have children.



## JustSugar

Ok, the basics. Married 7 years, together 14. Two sons aged 3 and 5. 

I do love my husband and care for him deeply, but I am not 'in love' with him and I dont think I ever have been. I think I just chose him because he was kind and safe, which I needed at the time.. and then time just kept moving on. I have been unhappy for quite a while, so much so I was on anti-depressants. I thought the cause was post natal depression, and it may well have been, but I think the anti-depressants were also masking many problems. I am off them now and I can see a bit more clearly.

A while back an old flame contacted me. We only talked on line, caught up with our past etc, but very quickly the conversation became one that a married person shouldnt have so I have ceased all contact. The problem is that he has made me remember what its like to be in love and how wonderful that is. 

It has woken me up to my situation, and I am having difficulting in wanting to stay in this marriage, in just going through the motions, but I have 2 small boys so I know I need to try and make this work somehow. 

My husband is actually a great man, good dad, caring husband. I know that I should be happy with that. But I am not attracted to him and I am not 'in love' with him. 

I guess my question is, should I try counselling? can I make myself fall in love with him. can I get back something that was never there. I feel like I am drowning inside, do I just accept that I have to be unhappy so that he and my beautiful boys are happy? 

any advice would be nice


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## RandomDude

Stop leading him on, it's been 14 yrs.

Making you fall in love with him is his job.
And making you fall in love over and over again, that's also his job.
Looks like there's none of that.


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## Jellybeans

So the whole time I was reading your story, I was waiting for this part to come up:



JustSugar said:


> A while back an old flame contacted me.


That Script is NO joke. 

OP--if you don't love your husband and never have, don't think you ever have, then leave him. I cannot imagine marrying someone because they are "safe" and "kind" yet you have no love for. I think it's cruel, personally, to do that to someone -- convincing them that you love them, enough and even marrying them on that pretext. So if you truly feel nada for him, let him go. It's only fair to him and to you. 

Get counselling to help deal with your depression.


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## JustSugar

wow. thats harsh, I didnt marry him on a pretext. I never said I felt nothing for him. I love him, I adore him but I am not 'in love' with him. surely that is not to hard a concept to understand, that you can find yourslef so deep in a situation that you cant get out. I shouldnt have married him, but at the time I thought it was what I wanted, that what I felt would be enough for us, for me. I am aware I have made some monumental mistakes, I thought this site was about support not judgement.

Whats fair to me or to him is no longer the overwhelming factor, its whats fair to my kids. I guess putting my needs first is what got me here in the first place, I am just trying to get it right this time. 

I am not depressed anymore. Being unhappy and being depressed are very different.


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## chillymorn

every mans worst nightmare.


Hey hon I married you because you were safe and I thought thats what I needed at the time but now that i think about it after haveing 2 children with you and you being a good provider and father I just ain't in love with you and never really was...............sorry but I am moving on.

Hard to imagine the pain and disapointment that would come with this.

with all that said is there something particular that you don't love about him did he gain weight, is he rude and indifferent, not romantic enough. what exactly is missing?


long term relationships go throuh up and downs in regard to how much love your feeling at any given time.

and that excitment you feel at the begining of a new relationship often fades to a more calm trusting kind of love.and it takes effort on both sides to try to keep that excitment alive espically when you have small children to take care of.try to consintrate on the good thigs about him and the commitment he has to be a good father and husband. 

Now if you really just don't have it for him then you should move on so he might be able to find someone who really dose love him


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## Jellybeans

JustSugar said:


> surely that is not to hard a concept to understand, that you can find yourslef so deep in a situation that you cant get out.
> 
> I am aware I have made some monumental mistakes, I thought this site was about support not judgement.


This is a support site and I am sorry if you felt my post was judgemental. It was not meant to be. I was being very honest when I said your post reads that you said yourself you were never in love with him, that you married him because he is "safe" and "kind."

You asked for advice and I gave you mine. I do not think you should ever stay with someone cause you are "going through the motions" and I especially think one should not marry someone under that pretext. I still maintain that is one of the cruellest things you could do to someone.

You said:



JustSugar said:


> *I do love my husband and care for him deeply, but I am not 'in love' with him and I dont think I ever have been. I think I just chose him because he was kind and safe, which I needed at the time.. and then time just kept moving on. *
> 
> It has woken me up to my situation, and I* am having difficulting in wanting to stay in this marriage, in just going through the motions,*
> 
> My husband is actually a great man, good dad, caring husband. *I know that I should be happy with that. But I am not attracted to him and I am not 'in love' with him. *
> 
> *can I make myself fall in love with him.* *can I get back something that was never there.* *I feel like I am drowning inside, do I just accept that I have to be unhappy so that he and my beautiful boys are happy? *any advice would be nice


Basically what you are saying if you should accept your marriage to make him and your kids happy. If your husband truly knew how you felt I am sure he would be UNhappy knowing that his wife has said she was never in lovew ith him, married him cause he was safe and kind and she was going through the motions. I personally, would feel unhappy if I heard my spouse talking about me that way.

You don't have to agree with what I have said. You have a right to your own opinion.



chillymorn said:


> every mans worst nightmare.
> 
> Hey hon I married you because you were safe and I thought thats what I needed at the time but now that i think about it after haveing 2 children with you and you being a good provider and father I just ain't in love with you and never really was...............sorry but I am moving on.
> 
> Now if you really just don't have it for him then you should move on so he might be able to find someone who really dose love him


:iagree:


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## JustSugar

I find it interesting that the three men that have responded have taken this as an invitation to judge me first before offering any kind of advice, none of which are concerned about the welfare of my children. 

I thought this was a site for advice and support. we all lose our way and need help and advice, I thought I might get some here. 

Its not a case of not wanting to hear the thruth. Giving someone advice does not mean you then get to have a free pass to kick them when they are vunerable. You clearly just want to make me feel bad about my choices in life, to late, I already do.

Maybe you should ask yourselves why you feel the need to berate me?


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## Jellybeans

Nobody here is berating you. 

You just don't like the responses you are getting. A lot of people post and just want validation for how they feel, etc and if the replies to don't jive with what they want/truly feel, they get upset. It's nothing new. We see it all the time on these boards.

If you are unhappy with your husband and do not love him, then leave him. People do it every day. I don't ever think couples should stay together for the kids if they are unhappy. I think it's worse to stay with someone if you don't really love them and if they believe you are in love with them when you're not--it's cold, IMO. How is staying in a loveless marriage serving the best interests/welfare of your children? 

Oh and btw, I am not a man. All woman here


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## JustSugar

First, apologies on getting your gender incorrect!

I never expected people to say only things I want to hear. 
I just thought maybe they would concentrate more on how to move forward rather than passing judgement on how I got here..

The plain truth, (that I dont even like to hear) is that kids do better with 2 parents, they do better in all fields, socially, financially, emotionally. My relationship is not abusive, the children dont hear us argue. Children are not at all interested in whether I am fulfilled or whether my husband has the complete love of his wife. They just want us to be together. If I leave we will no doubt have to leave our house, finances will be strained, they wont get to wake up with Daddy in the house every day. These things are important to children. The secuirty of 2 parents.

I was asking if anyone thought it was possible that I could get through this, return to a state where it worked.

My husband has always been aware that I dont feel the same way for him as he does for me. He knows I am not happy, we have not talked because he wont, he knows he wont like the answers. 

He may not like to know that I am not in love with him, but I really do think he would prefer to be in this marraige than without his kids.


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## chillymorn

did you red my whole post?

the last part of it contained some food for thought.


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## Jellybeans

JustSugar said:


> My husband has always been aware that I dont feel the same way for him as he does for me. He knows I am not happy, we have not talked because he wont, he knows he wont like the answers.


That makes this tale even sadder then. That he loves you so much he's willing to stay with you even if you don't feel the same way for him.

Children only do better in a two-parent home if it's loving and they have a good and healthy home life. To me, it sounds like you don't want to uproot your life so you'd rather be "secure" with your home and having hubby there and your kids around even if it is to the detriment of both your husband and yourself. I don't see how this would be helpful to your kids--letting them grow up in a house with parents who don't feel the same for eachother. Every action has a consequence. If you separate from your husband, your life *will* change. That is what divorce/separation do. It is par for the course. And I am of the thinking that the person who wants to throw the towel in, should be the one to leave (except in cases of abuse, etc). If he is financially better off than you, he could go for full custody and win (or split with you). Why should he have to leave if he isn't the one who wanted out? He would still see his children no matter what---he is legally entitled to as their father.


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## Cross

As an outside voice it sounds like you are somewhat bored and depressed in a tough situation with young kids and not a lot of excitement.

It also sounds like your husband is a good guy and the issue is you think the grass on the other side is greener. Everyone feels like this and goes through periods where they wonder if they need to find something deeper. 

The old flame contacting you was new and exciting. Fresh is always brighter and more interesting than routine. It is not better, just different. If the old flame were the current husband, and the situations were identical would you still be trying to escape?

All relationships take a spectacular amount of work. There is no 'in love'. There is a commitment to work together and be a family, or not. It's a two way street and he certainly needs to make you feel special and provide passion, but so do you.

If you want my advice based on the limited amount of information here I'd say if you aren't miserable and he treats you well that you should take a few years to work hard on your marriage and try and fix the issues that are lacking be they passion, finding what is causing your depression, and to see if the two of you can do things to cause sparks and create the connection you need for a successful marriage.

If it doesn't work, then your kids will be in school and you can know you gave it your best shot.

I will say I dated a girl for a few years when I was younger whom I was great friends with, but she left me because we were not 'in love'. A few years later she wanted to get back due to our 'great' relationship but it was too late.


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## omega

I would like to say that I almost did what you did but I bailed kind of at the last moment. I hated being alone, I needed to be in a relationship, I had had a few bad years and I got involved with a friend and our relationship lasted 3 years. We were never in love but yes, we did love each other. We're still friends. That love was real but it was not the kind of love between a husband and wife. Nevertheless, I wanted to marry him, and I planned to marry him. I even tried on wedding dresses (he sort of proposed, not really, I overanalyzed it and thought we were basically engaged - I had issues, anyway that's what happened). It went on for 3 years, finally I got up the courage to admit to myself that we were not IN love, just loved each other, and I ended it. I met my husband (fell in love head over heels) 3 weeks later and NEVER saw that one coming. But the thing is that it is not that strange to me that you married him. I almost married my BF because he WAS safe and kind and we loved each other. Now that I'm married to a man that I'm IN love with, it's extremely obvious to me what a big mistake marrying the BF would have been - but that did NOT become obvious until AFTER I fell in love with my now husband. (I had never experienced being in love with someone who was in love with me back until my husband, just endless one-sided things or love w/o being in love) - so I didn't know.

I do understand what happened in your case. The main difference being that I got out before the marriage + kids part. 

It's a tough one. On the one hand, these are your lives, you live once, it's rather harsh to say you should stay married and probably never experience being in love with another person, and basically set yourselves up for infidelity and the pain that comes with that.

On the other hand, you have to put your children first, as they did not opt into this situation.

I am pretty sure that the current thinking is that divorce does not completely obliterate the happy childhood - it takes work and commitment from both parents, but it can be done. Since there is no passion in your relationship, it's actually much more likely that you can succeed at that kind of setup. When there is massive betrayal and heartbreak and one is still in love with the other - that means that working out a coparenting thing can be just more heartbreak - but if you can keep things friendly and civil, it will probably be the best for all.

I just realized that I don't think you said if HE is in love with YOU. If he is, the above paragraph may not apply. 

I would never berate someone in this situation. People make mistakes. Life is complicated and sometimes the things you most need ARE safety and kindness. If your husband is in love with you, obviously you will need to have enormous respect for that and for the experience that he will go through when you tell him all this.


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## JustSugar

@Cross and @Omega. Thank you both so very much. I just want to get this right, for me, for him and for my children.



Cross said:


> The old flame contacting you was new and exciting. Fresh is always brighter and more interesting than routine. It is not better, just different. If the old flame were the current husband, and the situations were identical would you still be trying to escape?


 I sometimes wonder if I have mis-remembered my past, was I in love with my husband once? wasnt I? Is it just the passing of 14 years, 2 kids and some really tough times that have erased that feeling and the memory of it? I dont know. 

I think you are right I need to take some time, work at it harder, try and see if there is, or ever was, a spark to ignite.


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## omega

Cross said:


> All relationships take a spectacular amount of work. There is no 'in love'. There is a commitment to work together and be a family, or not. It's a two way street and he certainly needs to make you feel special and provide passion, but so do you.


Obviously based on my previous post I can't say that I agree with this but I do understand what Cross is saying. I think in real daily life it can be very difficult to "make" passion and I do believe that the feeling of "I am in love with him!" is largely chemical or hormonal or instinctual or animal or whatever you choose to call it, and it is kind of "there" along with all the daily relationship "stuff." It can indeed be impossible to be "in love" with someone you love, but certainly there is such a thing as being in love, although the current science claims it lasts no more than 2 years (BS). All you care about is your own little family and it does matter. This is your life. I would not want to live without being in love. Even if it is temporary. Sort of like some women say they want to experience motherhood. It is the thing keeping me from saying "your husband sounds like a great guy, and you have a lovely family, you're just having a mid-life crisis." Because I've been there and it was terrifying to take that leap and now I realize that it was the best thing I ever did.


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## RandomDude

Spend some time together, relight the passion. Haven't you had nights where you just lay together and talk BS all night, about your adventures, the fights, the worries, the heartaches, the romantic things that when it gets brought up, it has you rubbing each other's noses in bed over?

The flame of passion should never die in marriage. Whether you love or hate it, the last thing you want to feel is indifference towards your spouse. Go out on a date, flirt more, tease more, play the game again. But remember, this is a two way thing. How does he feel about all this?


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## Undertheradar

I'm gonna take a jab, and bet that you would have STILL been IN LOVE with your husband, if you were NEVER contacted by your old flame.

I'd bet that the "Old Flame", tickled your funny bone, and made you laugh, and feel warm and fuzzy all over.
That usially happens from people that don't spend 14 years raising a family, and worrying about the bills, food, cars, etc....

Give yourself a BIG TIMEOUT, and ask yourself what REALLY happened.

You are still IN LOVE with your husband..... You are THINKING ABOUT your old flame, and the way he USED to make you feel.
Our hearts only have room for one.

Wake up... you're in a fog from the past.

FWIW.... My wife made some new friends recently, and reacquainted herself with some old freinds via facebook. Then..... In a NY minute, my wife was suddenly not "in love" with me anymore.
It's been a few months since this happened, and we're in the process of "becoming friends" again.

Is my wife "in love" with me? I'd bet she isn't. But I'd bet she does loves me in a special way. She had her chance to leave, and didn't. So I'll go from there.
Does that mean that we should be apart?... I'm not so sure..... But we're both working on avoiding it for the wrong reasons.

No one has really been able to identify "in love".
My definition of not being "in love", always seems to revolve around someone else entering the picture.

"In Love" never surfaces, until someone else does.


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## AFEH

chillymorn said:


> every mans worst nightmare.


:iagree:


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## 4sure

Go to MC.


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## that_girl

Go to independent counseling.

Or not.

It's natural to have fantasies of what "could have been" with old flames. But the reality is that your old flame is also in the fog but is still a man...same as your husband. Except, your old flame has no responsibility for you or your heart. 

Take a break from the OM and invest that time into your marriage and see what happens


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## Undertheradar

WhiteRabbit said:


> I'll admit I didn't read the replied sorry everyone!
> 
> forgive me if I repeat what has already been said.
> 
> honey...you are in one major funk! I feel you on the loving deeply but not in love anymore mess. You're loving your husband like grownups love each other. But you want the head rush feeling of being in love with him. You love him because he's the type of man a good woman is supposed to be with...he's acceptable.
> There's nothing wrong with that. Every woman deep down wants someone she can count on...depend on to keep her feelings and her heart safe and secure. It has nothing to do with his monetary security or safety of his salary. There are rich bad boys all over the place who could give you monetary safety.
> This is about emotional safety...that's why you love him. It was enough for you back when you started out but you grew and changed. You want more now. And there is NOTHING wrong with wanting more from your husband or from your marriage.
> 
> People grow and change all.the.time. Safety and security can really kill your spirit and your passion sometimes. You want the rush and thrill. But that doesn't mean your husband can't give that to you! Being in love and staying in love is a$$busting hard work lovey!!
> 
> First things first, get yourself outta the funk. You can't expect things to get steamy and passionate with H while you're in a borderline emotional coma. Dig into your feelings and explore yourself...it's pure misery when you start but you'll get addicted to how good it eventually feels to know the woman you are.
> 
> Give your husband a chance to give you passion and thrills and all that "in love" butterflies and pixies crap you want! lol It IS possible ok??
> 
> and OMG for heaven's sake...put Old Flame outta your head. When you're in this emotional coma...EVERYTHING looks good to you except for the one who IS good FOR you.
> Put your blinders on baby...at least until you give your H a chance to show you what he's made of and until you give yourself a chance to be happy with what you've got.


Beautifully said. :smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## AFEH

JustSugar, If you really do love your H for what he provides for you and your children amongst other things don’t you ever tell him you were "never in love" with him. That sort of stuff destroys a man inside, makes him feel hollow and empty as though he’s had his heart ripped out. No Good Husband and Good Father ever deserves that.


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## Undertheradar

AFEH said:


> JustSugar, If you really do love your H for what he provides for you and your children amongst other things don’t you ever tell him you were "never in love" with him. That sort of stuff destroys a man inside, makes him feel hollow and empty as though he’s had his heart ripped out. No Good Husband and Good Father ever deserves that.


Hey, as a man, I'd like to chime in on this.

My wife is with me. She appears to be saying all the right things, and doing everything she can to be my best friend.

However, the day she told me she wasn't in love with me, has stayed inside my heart, like a block of ice. Everytime I feel as if I need to connect, I feel as if I'd be asking for too much.
Even though I'm a man, I do need hugs, and kisses. If I go to my wife for them, my inner-self reminds me that she really isn't into me.
Those words have scarred me in so many ways.
Yet, I'm here, and I'm also trying to get past it. But it's not easy.

I look at my wife every day. I admire her beauty. I want to be the best husband for her. I want her on a pedestal, and I want her to be happy. 
However, when I remiond myself that she once told me she wasn't in love with me anymore, I can't do any of the above.

So I guess I'm trying to tell you.... Be careful when using those words. They hurt like hell, and the pain lasts.


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## AFEH

Undertheradar said:


> Hey, as a man, I'd like to chime in on this.
> 
> My wife is with me. She appears to be saying all the right things, and doing everything she can to be my best friend.
> 
> However, the day she told me she wasn't in love with me, has stayed inside my heart, like a block of ice. Everytime I feel as if I need to connect, I feel as if I'd be asking for too much.
> Even though I'm a man, I do need hugs, and kisses. If I go to my wife for them, my inner-self reminds me that she really isn't into me.
> Those words have scarred me in so many ways.
> Yet, I'm here, and I'm also trying to get past it. But it's not easy.
> 
> I look at my wife every day. I admire her beauty. I want to be the best husband for her. I want her on a pedestal, and I want her to be happy.
> However, when I remiond myself that she once told me she wasn't in love with me anymore, I can't do any of the above.
> 
> So I guess I'm trying to tell you.... Be careful when using those words. They hurt like hell, and the pain lasts.


Well, if you’re not getting hugs and kisses from your wife, if she is not initiating them, then you are not going to “feel” loved and therefore you are going to feel insecure in your marriage and you will always doubt her.

Quite simply, you are not getting what you need out of your marriage, or at least a very big part of what you need. Sometimes we sacrifice that fundamental “need” for some of the “wants” that we do get without even knowing it, without being aware of it. If you feel unloved and insecure there will be a reason for it.


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## Undertheradar

AFEH said:


> Well, if you’re not getting hugs and kisses from your wife, if she is not initiating them, then you are not going to “feel” loved and therefore you are going to feel insecure in your marriage and you will always doubt her.
> 
> Quite simply, you are not getting what you need out of your marriage, or at least a very big part of what you need. Sometimes we sacrifice that fundamental “need” for some of the “wants” that we do get without even knowing it, without being aware of it. If you feel unloved and insecure there will be a reason for it.


I don't want to hijack the thread, but yes, you are right.

Sometimes, we keep waiting for the ship to roll in.


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## AFEH

Undertheradar said:


> I don't want to hijack the thread, but yes, you are right.
> 
> Sometimes, we keep waiting for the ship to roll in.


It may be good for JustSugar to see the affect “words” have on us men.


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## Undertheradar

AFEH said:


> It may be good for JustSugar to see the affect “words” have on us men.


Yes, that's why I wrote it.

The words do hurt.


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## that_girl

Words are important. I look at the words my husband chooses at this point in time.

That being said, would it be better to say, "I don't feel what I used to feel with you" rather than "I am not in love with you anymore."

Same message, but a softer approach??


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## AFEH

that_girl said:


> Words are important. I look at the words my husband chooses at this point in time.
> 
> That being said, would it be better to say, "I don't feel what I used to feel with you" rather than "I am not in love with you anymore."
> 
> Same message, but a softer approach??


I think the really big thing is not to deny the man his past, not to rewrite history. Not to say things like ”I was never in love with you”.


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## JustSugar

I will NEVER tell him that I have doubted whether I have ever been 'in love' with him... NEVER. I may not feel passion for him, but I do feel genuine love for him. I dont do the 'I need to be honest' to make myself feel better whilst ripping out the heart of someone else. 

This is why I am here, in anonymity, trying to talk through my feelings, with complete strangers! (something I thought I would never do!) on how to move forward. Get some advice from people who have been there maybe? turned it around? or left and can tell me it will be ok...

I dont want to hurt anyone. Sometimes though I think thats how I got here in the first place..

Throughout our relationship, right from the start he has always told me that he knows I am going to leave him one day. That stuff messes with your head.....

@ WhiteRabbit. You are so right, I am in an emotional coma. Your advice makes a lot of sense. Thank you, really, it helps to hear it. Blinkers at the ready.. 

I know I was unhappy before my old flame contacted me, but it did sure as hell make things worse... I am doing my best to get him out of my mind because I know that its the last thing I need. Thats why I cut contact..

I think I am going to go get some independent counselling, I cant be honest in couples counselling without really hurting my H so that wont work.

I guess I already knew a lot of what you all advised, that I need to work at it, that maybe I am re-writing history. 

Its just really hard.


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## Undertheradar

that_girl said:


> Words are important. I look at the words my husband chooses at this point in time.
> 
> That being said, would it be better to say, "I don't feel what I used to feel with you" rather than "I am not in love with you anymore."
> 
> Same message, but a softer approach??


No, I don't think so.

No such way of saying anything suggesting that something is lost between you and the other.

I would be losing sleep over what " she doesn't feel" anymore


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## AFEH

JustSugar, I think what you are going through is all part of “married life” and life in general. I was with the love of my life for 42 years. You will find that you go through “phases”. I’m 62 and met a teenage sweetheart a few weeks back at her mother’s funeral. I thought about her reasonably often during my marriage, her parents thought we’d marry. When I met her again all the old feelings were there, a heck of a lot of affection and love. But I never went there with my thoughts, I never took them further and I’m so glad I didn’t. I suggest you go on a marriage enrichment program, some are excellent and the timing is about right for the two of you.


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## JustSugar

Undertheradar said:


> No, I don't think so.
> 
> No such way of saying anything suggesting that something is lost between you and the other.
> 
> I would be losing sleep over what " she doesn't feel" anymore



I know no matter what I say I will hurt him. Thats why I am not saying anything to him right now. I dont know whether to talk to him about it, which will mean telling him how unhappy I am now, or just try to change it on my own, so to speak, without talking to him. Try to put some spark back in somehow. Is that possible if we dont talk about where we are now? 

Is it a case of hurting him a bit, letting him know I am unhappy, to save our marriage and prevent really hurting him and my kids.....Does that make any sense?


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## JustSugar

AFEH said:


> . When I met her again all the old feelings were there, a heck of a lot of affection and love. But I never went there with my thoughts, I never took them further and I’m so glad I didn’t.


I was very taken aback by the strength of feelings I still have for my old flame. We never really chose to be apart, its a long story, but needless to say we were young and it involved dissaproving families. He is not living in the same country as me anymore and and whilst he is now single he also has children, so he has been respectful of my need to put mine first. 

I now know that letting this man back into my life in any way shape or form would be the end of my marriage.


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## JustSugar

WhiteRabbit said:


> You can't improve your marriage without his help...you can improve ONE thing without his help and that's YOURSELF.
> 
> but for all other things, you need to talk to him.
> 
> talk to your own therapist first...during your sessions, find out what he/she suggests for a healthy yet effective approach to this issue with your husband.


Thank you WhiteRabbit. Your advice is really good. I will, I just need to get a therapist first!


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## WhiteRabbit

oh, another thing to chew on...

if you had married old flame...you'd eventually come across your husband or a man just like him...then you'd be looking over the fence longing for the safety,comfort,and goodness he could give you if only you weren't hitched to a smoldering good time old flame


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## JustSugar

Just wanted to say thankyou to everyone for their advice, it helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

WhiteRabbit said:


> oh, another thing to chew on...
> 
> if you had married old flame...you'd eventually come across your husband or a man just like him...then you'd be looking over the fence longing for the safety,comfort,and goodness he could give you if only you weren't hitched to a smoldering good time old flame


Ha! A bird in the hand ....


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## JAYBLACK973

Falling in and out of love with your husband is something you do for a life time. You may feel like you dont love today and tomorrow be head over heels in love with him. Yes, his actions play a healthy role in how you feel day to day. You have to make yourself happy before he can make you happy. Don't cheat yourself by cheating. Tell him exactly how you feel and be honest. My wife held on to things for many years that turned into resentment and she couldn't recover in our marriage.


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## grizabella

JustSugar, just a thought but how would you behave with your H if you had passion for him? What would you do for him/with him? I would suggest you try implementing some of these things. You would be surprised how feelings can follow behavior. I'm not talking about "fake it till you make it" or for you to be dishonest. It's more like "pay it forward".


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## Tall Average Guy

grizabella said:


> JustSugar, just a thought but how would you behave with your H if you had passion for him? What would you do for him/with him? I would suggest you try implementing some of these things. You would be surprised how feelings can follow behavior. I'm not talking about "fake it till you make it" or for you to be dishonest. It's more like "pay it forward".



Another blog suggests an exercise where a couple individually writes down ten things you would do for your partner if you were in love with them, and ten things your partner would do if they were in love with you. It may be a way to jump start your feelings toward your husband. You will better understand how he shows he loves you and your husband can improve on showing you he loves you. And vice versa.


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## Deejo

JustSugar said:


> I do love my husband and care for him deeply, but I am not 'in love' with him and I dont think I ever have been. I think I just chose him because he was kind and safe, which I needed at the time.
> 
> A while back an old flame contacted me. We only talked on line, caught up with our past etc, but very quickly the conversation became one that a married person shouldnt have ...


Nobody wishes you ill, but just as you are here to express your feelings ... you need to be aware that the feelings you are expressing can strike a very raw nerve for others that have lived through exactly what you are faced with.

You cannot possibly address what is going on without letting your spouse in on it. You must talk about it. By not making him aware of the situation, you will simply continue 'seeing' reasons why there is no passion.

Counseling would be a good idea. Just keep in mind, a counselor is going to tailor their therapeutic approach according to what is that you want ... so you need to decide. 

Find a way to strengthen your marriage, or a way to leave it.

Regardless of whether you do individual or couple's counseling, you need to have a conversation with your husband.

Welcome to the boards


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## Ten_year_hubby

JS,

You sound like you could be my wife writing this except that there is no old flame around for her and she has already made her (lack of) feelings known. 

I don't think this has worked out real well for her. I would caution you to think long and hard before you follow in her footsteps. You may find this to be the classic case of "throwing out the baby with the bathwater". Before you burn 14 years, the most important relationship in your life and much of your kid's future ability to keep and enjoy an adult intimate relationship, you want to be sure that what you're getting is worth what you're giving.

Feelings are slippery. People fall in and out of love. Be very careful what you say. I don't think your husband will be all that surprised if you share feelings of unhappiness. Lots of people are unhappy for lots of reasons and it's not that hard to understand. But if you drill down into the "love" thing, you may not be prepared for what comes next. The problem is that once you deny your love, anything unloving you have done in the past locks into place in a pattern and that can be very difficult to undo. Everyone does unloving things, but when love is denied, unloving acts become a product rather than an accident.

Because I am able to present a strong, effective role model for how a man can deal with problems, my boys may come out of this without catastrophic ruin. But my daughter identifies with her mom and she is highly at risk here.

My wife's maternal grandmother had a miserable marriage and she taught my wife's mother who had a miserable marriage and she taught my wife who has recently destroyed her marriage and I'm trying as hard as I can to intervene on behalf of my daughter for a better future, but there is a lot of bad at work here and I am challenged.


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## Dedicated2Her

> Hey, as a man, I'd like to chime in on this.
> 
> My wife is with me. She appears to be saying all the right things, and doing everything she can to be my best friend.
> 
> However, the day she told me she wasn't in love with me, has stayed inside my heart, like a block of ice. Everytime I feel as if I need to connect, I feel as if I'd be asking for too much.
> Even though I'm a man, I do need hugs, and kisses. If I go to my wife for them, my inner-self reminds me that she really isn't into me.
> Those words have scarred me in so many ways.
> Yet, I'm here, and I'm also trying to get past it. But it's not easy.
> 
> I look at my wife every day. I admire her beauty. I want to be the best husband for her. I want her on a pedestal, and I want her to be happy.
> However, when I remiond myself that she once told me she wasn't in love with me anymore, I can't do any of the above.
> 
> So I guess I'm trying to tell you.... Be careful when using those words. They hurt like hell, and the pain lasts.



Good grief, man. I understand this all too well. The words echo in my head everyday.


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## Ten_year_hubby

Yeah, it's called the "bin Laden problem". It's at lot easier to burn stuff up than it is to build something.


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## gsb

JustSugar said:


> Ok, the basics. Married 7 years, together 14. Two sons aged 3 and 5.
> 
> I do love my husband and care for him deeply, but I am not 'in love' with him and I dont think I ever have been. I think I just chose him because he was kind and safe, which I needed at the time.. and then time just kept moving on. I have been unhappy for quite a while, so much so I was on anti-depressants. I thought the cause was post natal depression, and it may well have been, but I think the anti-depressants were also masking many problems. I am off them now and I can see a bit more clearly.
> 
> A while back an old flame contacted me. We only talked on line, caught up with our past etc, but very quickly the conversation became one that a married person shouldnt have so I have ceased all contact. The problem is that he has made me remember what its like to be in love and how wonderful that is.
> 
> It has woken me up to my situation, and I am having difficulting in wanting to stay in this marriage, in just going through the motions, but I have 2 small boys so I know I need to try and make this work somehow.
> 
> My husband is actually a great man, good dad, caring husband. I know that I should be happy with that. But I am not attracted to him and I am not 'in love' with him.
> 
> I guess my question is, should I try counselling? can I make myself fall in love with him. can I get back something that was never there. I feel like I am drowning inside, do I just accept that I have to be unhappy so that he and my beautiful boys are happy?
> 
> any advice would be nice


Sigh... sounds like a familiar story for my W and I. A slight twist is that my wife feels that I've neglected her for the majority of our 17 year marriage. She's sort of right. I haven't been as loving and caring towards her as I should have been. She would say that I've been an excellent partner, father and provider. But not such a good husband. Now, she wants to leave. She's told me that she isn't attracted to me any longer. Unfortunately, she too has been in contact with an old love. She's unhappy with me but she's afraid to move on because of our two sons (12 and 14). We're seeing a MC and I'm seeing a therapist on my own. 

So, my suggestions are in line with most of the others you've received... 
- Get your own counselor, decide how you really feel and why.
- Continue with the couples counseling.
- Once yo know how you feel, talk openly and honestly but in a caring and respectful way.
- If you decide that leaving is what you want, do it. Make the decision and move on. 
- DON'T stay for the kids. Stay because you want to and because you believe in the marriage. If you don't, then end it quickly. 

Your kids are young and resilient. They will survive and they will recover. 

Best wishes !


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## LovesHerMan

Sugar:

This sentence jumped out at me: 
Throughout our relationship, right from the start he has always told me that he knows I am going to leave him one day.

I think you are feeling that he is not assertive enough for you. Try making him feel more masculine. Praise him for things that you genuinely admire about him. If he is doing too much around the house, make sure that you perform your share of household tasks.

Let him know what you like in the bedroom. Tease him, and be playful. It will take effort at first, but it will become natural after a while. Do not give up until you have tried everything you can think of to ignite passion in your marriage.


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## JustSugar

Ten_year_hubby said:


> JS,
> 
> I would caution you to think long and hard before you follow in her footsteps. You may find this to be the classic case of "throwing out the baby with the bathwater". Before you burn 14 years, the most important relationship in your life and much of your kid's future ability to keep and enjoy an adult intimate relationship, you want to be sure that what you're getting is worth what you're giving.
> 
> .


Yes, I know I am on the verge of either making the worst or best decision of my life. My children and their welfare has to be the most important thing, I know my husband would feel the same.

If its not to difficult a subject for you to talk about, I would really like to know if you think it would have been better for both you and your children if your wife had not shared her feelings with you but just carried on and tried to make things work?.........


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## JustSugar

lovesherman said:


> Sugar:
> 
> This sentence jumped out at me:
> Throughout our relationship, right from the start he has always told me that he knows I am going to leave him one day.
> 
> I think you are feeling that he is not assertive enough for you. Try making him feel more masculine. Praise him for things that you genuinely admire about him. If he is doing too much around the house, make sure that you perform your share of household tasks.
> 
> Let him know what you like in the bedroom. Tease him, and be playful. It will take effort at first, but it will become natural after a while. Do not give up until you have tried everything you can think of to ignite passion in your marriage.


Yes, you know you are right, he is not assertive at all. And I think it can sometimes bring out the worst in me. I feel his happiness has always been on my shoulders..that if I do ever leave he will completely fall apart and never recover. He says he doesnt think he deserves someone like me.. and that makes me not respect him sometimes. Which I find hard to admit. 

He is not dominant in the bedroom either and I try everything to get him to let me know what he really wants, I am quite open. We have fun and are not prudish, but it always feels like he is doing what he thinks I want, but just to please me. That of course is lovely, but it doesnt make me feel as though he is having what he wants.. I know that kinda doesnt make sense.. but he is just not a passionate person, it never feels lustful. But I dont know how to change that.....


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## JustSugar

Deejo said:


> Nobody wishes you ill, but just as you are here to express your feelings ... you need to be aware that the feelings you are expressing can strike a very raw nerve for others that have lived through exactly what you are faced with.
> 
> You cannot possibly address what is going on without letting your spouse in on it. You must talk about it. By not making him aware of the situation, you will simply continue 'seeing' reasons why there is no passion.
> 
> Counseling would be a good idea. Just keep in mind, a counselor is going to tailor their therapeutic approach according to what is that you want ... so you need to decide.
> 
> Find a way to strengthen your marriage, or a way to leave it.
> 
> Regardless of whether you do individual or couple's counseling, you need to have a conversation with your husband.
> 
> Welcome to the boards


Thank you Deejo. 

I am in such a state of confusion, so desperately trying to work out what I feel, felt, what I want, what is best for everyone. I dont want to be selfish, but I dont want to live my life for someone else either. But you are right, in reality there are really only 2 options that make sense and are honest, make it work or leave it.


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## LovesHerMan

Sugar:

I admire you for trying to work on this. Go to the Men's Clubhouse, and look at the Man Up and Nice Guy Reference link there for ideas. 

Guys: Do you have any other suggestions for her?


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## ItHappenedToMe

Sugar...STAY. STAY STAY STAY. 

Your story is mine with a few different details, like 20 yrs married & 17 of discontent. Our H's could be brothers. And you MUST stop him from the negative comment about knowing you'll leave. That [email protected] sticks in your head and his and grows. It is bad, bad mojo.

I too have been in touch with past BFs...no big deal. Always professional. Great to see them married and happy, although one's wife acts pretty funny when I'm around. She ought to know how deeply in love with her he is. 

Anyway, I've taken my discontent further, for which I deeply regret. I'm skulking around for what to do, what to expect, as I grieve over putting my H through tremendous pain for something he doesn't deserve.

Anyway, you've got tons of great advice here, and I'm listening too. Blinders on. Check. Marriage enrichment seminar. Check. Work on marriage together, even if it is tough. Check. That started last night, and although I thought it went HORRIBLY (think sopping wet blanket), he was rather relaxed and playful this afternoon - a wonderful change from dry, dull and distant.

Basing everything on 'happiness' is a fleeting, slippery slope. What makes one happy is ever changing. 

I found this recently: Dr. Andrew Cherlin, a sociology professor at Johns Hopkins University whose provocative book, The Marriage Go-Round, explores the “de-institutionalization of marriage,” attributes this gradual rise of remarriage during the past century to our country’s evolving social norms. 

“Fifty years ago, people didn’t think of marriages the same way,” he tells MainStreet. “Happiness was more likely to mean being a good father or a good brother or a good spouse. Today, happiness is more bound up with your own personal sense of meaning. All that has meant we have more breakups than we had 50 years ago, but a majority of all people will start a new relationship because they value being in a long-term partnership.”

Your children need you & your husband, they will be affected in ways you can't forsee, children always do better with both parents together. They learn everything about life from you! And whereas you may not feel "in love" you do love him, he loves you, and you need to show your children how parents are also lovers and work together to achieve goals. 

Case in point: the OM's parents both were married 3x or more. Between all the spouses, there are 5 brothers. Of those that have married (1 has not - he's caretaker of his parents), all of them have had 3 or more spouses. They learned how to be selfish in relationships, only think of themselves, that marriages (even with children) are expendable. The boys don't have relationships with their parents, and their relationships with children are all deeply strained (as in no communication). He's a messy train wreck in so many other ways, too.

Case 2: H never knew his father, born in early 50's when such things were taboo. Mother married many times, like Liz Taylor. The one that she loved the most (but didn't stay with), father of his brothers, treated him like an outsider. He has stated repeatedly that being a part of his children's lives is the MOST important thing to him (unfortunate for me), and no matter what happens, they will know their father. And they do, although it makes me the outsider. Honestly I don't think he realizes that he's being like his stepfather, and will work to change it. 

You keep saying your children are so important. Read up on long-term studies of divorced families, take time to work on your marriage and see if you choose to STAY.

Scarlet


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## Entropy3000

Undertheradar said:


> I'm gonna take a jab, and bet that you would have STILL been IN LOVE with your husband, if you were NEVER contacted by your old flame.
> 
> I'd bet that the "Old Flame", tickled your funny bone, and made you laugh, and feel warm and fuzzy all over.
> That usially happens from people that don't spend 14 years raising a family, and worrying about the bills, food, cars, etc....
> 
> Give yourself a BIG TIMEOUT, and ask yourself what REALLY happened.
> 
> You are still IN LOVE with your husband..... You are THINKING ABOUT your old flame, and the way he USED to make you feel.
> Our hearts only have room for one.
> 
> Wake up... you're in a fog from the past.
> 
> FWIW.... My wife made some new friends recently, and reacquainted herself with some old freinds via facebook. Then..... In a NY minute, my wife was suddenly not "in love" with me anymore.
> It's been a few months since this happened, and we're in the process of "becoming friends" again.
> 
> Is my wife "in love" with me? I'd bet she isn't. But I'd bet she does loves me in a special way. She had her chance to leave, and didn't. So I'll go from there.
> Does that mean that we should be apart?... I'm not so sure..... But we're both working on avoiding it for the wrong reasons.
> 
> No one has really been able to identify "in love".
> My definition of not being "in love", always seems to revolve around someone else entering the picture.
> 
> "In Love" never surfaces, until someone else does.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000

WhiteRabbit said:


> I get the solid feeling that when she says she was never in love with him...she's rewriting history.
> 
> And I agree...never ever tell him you weren't in love with him. Not only is it hurtful...but it makes you as liar as well.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Of course she was in love with him. He sounds like a wonderful man. She got bored. She is in a fog.


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## Entropy3000

JustSugar said:


> Yes, you know you are right, he is not assertive at all. And I think it can sometimes bring out the worst in me. I feel his happiness has always been on my shoulders..that if I do ever leave he will completely fall apart and never recover. He says he doesnt think he deserves someone like me.. and that makes me not respect him sometimes. Which I find hard to admit.
> 
> He is not dominant in the bedroom either and I try everything to get him to let me know what he really wants, I am quite open. We have fun and are not prudish, but it always feels like he is doing what he thinks I want, but just to please me. That of course is lovely, but it doesnt make me feel as though he is having what he wants.. I know that kinda doesnt make sense.. but he is just not a passionate person, it never feels lustful. But I dont know how to change that.....


He just flat loves you so much. Yes this makes sense. Please do not penalize him for not being a jerk. I understand women want to be ravaged and taken and all of that. It does not mean your husband is not capable of this. He loves you too much right now to be selfish. He thinks he is doing right by you. He needs you to tell him what you want. He needs to learn what you want. When he learns that you really want this he will do this. He is holding back because he has you on a pedestal. It is ironic the men who love women the most are cruely penalized by this. Deep down he probably wants to ravage you. He needs you to tell him this.

Send him to Married Man Sex Life

If you go to another man or you tell him you never loved him, you will destroy the one man in the world who loves you more than anyone else could.


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## heartsbeating

JustSugar said:


> I feel his happiness has always been on my shoulders..that if I do ever leave he will completely fall apart and never recover.


Don't kid yourself here. If you walked away from your marriage you might actually wake up a part of him that becomes more assertive and actually manages extremely well without you. Then you'd be looking at him puzzled some time later wondering why on earth you left such a great guy.

I didn't read all of the posts but I agree with a lot of what has already been suggested. Feeling 'awoken' by this other man has shown there are changes that need to be made. You and your H need to work on getting some excitement and passion back into your marriage. This is going to take time. It's highly likely that you're thinking back over the years and have now convinced yourself you weren't in love with him because you have tasted excitement again and felt more alive with this.

Give yourself time. Give your relationship time. Right now you might feel ready to step into a new life but chances are, you're already with a wonderful man and you just need to change up some aspects. It's going to require patience. I think it's worth trying for before walking away. Best wishes to you.


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## Entropy3000

JustSugar said:


> I will NEVER tell him that I have doubted whether I have ever been 'in love' with him... NEVER. I may not feel passion for him, but I do feel genuine love for him. I dont do the 'I need to be honest' to make myself feel better whilst ripping out the heart of someone else.
> 
> This is why I am here, in anonymity, trying to talk through my feelings, with complete strangers! (something I thought I would never do!) on how to move forward. Get some advice from people who have been there maybe? turned it around? or left and can tell me it will be ok...
> 
> I dont want to hurt anyone. Sometimes though I think thats how I got here in the first place..
> 
> Throughout our relationship, right from the start he has always told me that he knows I am going to leave him one day. That stuff messes with your head.....
> 
> @ WhiteRabbit. You are so right, I am in an emotional coma. Your advice makes a lot of sense. Thank you, really, it helps to hear it. Blinkers at the ready..
> 
> I know I was unhappy before my old flame contacted me, but it did sure as hell make things worse... I am doing my best to get him out of my mind because I know that its the last thing I need. Thats why I cut contact..
> 
> I think I am going to go get some independent counselling, I cant be honest in couples counselling without really hurting my H so that wont work.
> 
> I guess I already knew a lot of what you all advised, that I need to work at it, that maybe I am re-writing history.
> 
> Its just really hard.


He provides you oxytocin. You also need dopamine. He is a nice guy.

Many men are taught when growing up to put their wives on a pedestal. All well and good. Respect and honor your wife. BUT, don't put her on a pedestal. 

Instead throw her passionately onto the bed or grass or where ever and ravage her. Take her. Lose yourself in her. Let your desire for her put you over the edge and lose control. Let your wife enjoy the pleasure of her man being so driven by her that he loses control. Many men worry about hurting thier wives with thier passion. Many wives wish their hubby would just be so taken by them that the man has his way with her. 

My wife loves this no end. I still worry about hurting her. But I learned not to ask her if she was ok. I learned to be lost in the moment and let myself enjoy her. It seems selfish but in reality it is what many women desire. I do not hold back any sounds, or breathing or gasps or moans or whatever. I don't over play it either. I just make sure I am uninhibited. Some women like a little hair pulling. And so on. I just remember back to when we were first married and how I let the passion go. My wife used to really get turned on by how I would get so into it I would lose myself in her and as she would put it I was sooo intense. I remember she would be so enthralled smiling with eyes wide open in wonderment as I would orgasm and come back to the moment. She reveled in it. So in recent years I have made it my focus to return to that type of passion. It works. No we are not 23 any more but I can honestly say that I have fallen back in love with my wife. She is coming along for the ride at least is enjoying the ride.


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## ItHappenedToMe

Entropy3000 said:


> ...don't put her on a pedestal. Instead throw her passionately onto the bed or grass or where ever and ravage her. Take her. Lose yourself in her. Let your desire for her put you over the edge and lose control. Let your wife enjoy the pleasure of her man being so driven by her that he loses control. Many men worry about hurting thier wives with thier passion. Many wives wish their hubby would just be so taken by them that the man has his way with her.
> 
> My wife loves this no end. I still worry about hurting her. But I learned not to ask her if she was ok. I learned to be lost in the moment and let myself enjoy her. It seems selfish but in reality it is what many women desire. I do not hold back any sounds, or breathing or gasps or moans or whatever. I don't over play it either. I just make sure I am uninhibited. Some women like a little hair pulling. And so on. I just remember back to when we were first married and how I let the passion go.


AMEN! You nailed it (or her...!) ;-p

Reba McIntyr wrote a song that Diana Krall does incredibly "Love me Like a Man." 

Says it all.

Now if I get my H to read your post...


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## Entropy3000

heartsbreaking said:


> Don't kid yourself here. If you walked away from your marriage you might actually wake up a part of him that becomes more assertive and actually manages extremely well without you. Then you'd be looking at him puzzled some time later wondering why on earth you left such a great guy.
> 
> I didn't read all of the posts but I agree with a lot of what has already been suggested. Feeling 'awoken' by this other man has shown there are changes that need to be made. You and your H need to work on getting some excitement and passion back into your marriage. This is going to take time. It's highly likely that you're thinking back over the years and have now convinced yourself you weren't in love with him because you have tasted excitement again and felt more alive with this.
> 
> Give yourself time. Give your relationship time. Right now you might feel ready to step into a new life but chances are, you're already with a wonderful man and you just need to change up some aspects. It's going to require patience. I think it's worth trying for before walking away. Best wishes to you.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000

ItHappenedToMe said:


> AMEN! You nailed it (or her...!) ;-p
> 
> Reba McIntyr wrote a song that Diana Krall does incredibly "Love me Like a Man."
> 
> Says it all.
> 
> Now if I get my H to read your post...


Just have him read Athol's blog -> Married Man Sex Life

It has awakened me.


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## sinnister

Agreed, nothing makes a man feel like a man like a "love you but not IN love with you" wife.


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## Runs like Dog

no one gets divorced because it's easy, they get divorced because it's hard.


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## ItHappenedToMe

CleanStart78 said:


> Anyways, I wish she would have read the following article:
> http://marriageandfamilies.byu.edu/issues/2006/Winter/20061.Myths.pdf


Is this "byu.edu" as in Bringham Young Unviersity?

I've not yet read the article. I'm somehow surprised that Mormons/Latter Day Saints would acknowledge that all things aren't rosy in the marriage/family. The pics are distinctly nubile, which makes me think that it must be LDS.

The happy sereneness and family unity is one of their major selling points.

(just commenting, not trying to thread jack!)


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## LovesHerMan

JustSugar:

Are you still there? Update on your situation, please.


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## TY2012

Hello,

I am considering leaving myself...I don't love him anymore..but this guy isn't all good. 

As for you:
You shouldn't beat yourself up for discovering yourself. You made a decision early in your life, but it doesn't work for you now.

There are plenty of people who marry for all the wrong reasons. Maybe you did or maybe you did not. 

But you make that decision. And you decided that, and it seems like you have come to terms with the fact, "I don't love him". You know that now.

Get the guts, and tell him. So, you can find your real love. Your husband will be fine. You are not doing him or the kids justice. 

I understand how you want stay for the kids...but they will grow up, and you will have to still look at him.

Make a plan...and get out. It can be 3months, 6months or 1 year. But get out...

You are killing youself...don't die before you find him, your real love.

See ya!


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## speechless

Entropy3000 said:


> Instead throw her passionately onto the bed or grass or where ever and ravage her. Take her. Lose yourself in her. Let your desire for her put you over the edge and lose control. Let your wife enjoy the pleasure of her man being so driven by her that he loses control. Many men worry about hurting thier wives with thier passion. Many wives wish their hubby would just be so taken by them that the man has his way with her.


:iagree:

Seriously. Hear hear!

Why do you think trashy romance novels are so popular? It's the fantasy that a woman drives a man so crazy that he must have his way with her.


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