# ONE year later and I am more depressed



## darkdays

My wife had a EA not physical supposedly with her married bald fat boss and Dday was a little over a year ago. Trying to R. I have known her 20 years since she was 17, married 15 years with 2 kids.
I am having major issues and time is not doing much. I walk around like a zombie pretending holding hands, she sits next to me cuddling watching TV but all romantic love is just gone out of me. I’m just depressed all the time. Went to C and I still feel the same. I will think I am over everything and everything is fine and then all of a sudden BANG I am in mental hell OCD over everything and looking for clues to what really is real and what she is lying about.
What I see as obsessive nature of the EA I really can’t deal with it and over what a loser scumbag that wanted ass that didn’t even do anything romantic for her or really work it. All he did was talk about his problems with her.
He sent her a recipie and she baked the guy cookies 9 days before Christmas.
She would talk to him at work any chance she could and stayed 30 minutes late each night to talk.
She bought special low cut shirts and bras at the end to help seduce him. 15 years with me and she walked around in over sized sweat pants, large white t shirts and a pony tail. This guy her hair was all done nails painted hot pink, hot pink or red lipstick.
On d day she said if she had slept with him she would of went with him
A month before d day she was sleeping on the coach each nite.
I find out just before d day it was going to go physical and she was in his office doing oral on a blow pop as a little show for him and pulling her tops down to show more cleavage. This revelation came out last week.
She bought the guy a b day present 6 months before his b day just because he mentioned he liked something. 
She bought and listened to that Selena Gomez song come and get it and thought of him.
I blew this thing all up. Knocked her out of the fog when I emailed the dude and he backed down in two seconds. She say him as a ***** at this point and realized he didn’t real care about her. Notified his wife via letter to her at work. The wife left work 5 months later. BUT I can’t take the obsessive nature of what she was feeling. Its like for this guy she wanted to act like a hot woman and all these years with me she was blah. She was going to throw away her marriage, our 20 year relationship, blow up a family with 2 small kids 8 and 9 years old over what. Plus in her fantasy land she was going to use protection or birth control she didn’t care if she got pregnant. Now I am living with this ***** and she is all oh I was so wrong, oh I love you so much, you’re my life. When she calls me sweetie or love it feels like a drill entering my head. I just think ****ing liar and am waiting for the next freak obsession.


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## Racer

2nd year is the worst. Sort of like the first year is fact finding and coming to terms that this did actually happen. The second year is when most start questioning not only the character of their spouse, but the character of themselves… deeper nastier thoughts about life ensues. 

And well… most WS I know of that survive that first year of your emotional rollercoaster and inquisition tend to think the worst is over. So they try to resume the old marriage as though it was just illness they had that passed. It isn’t the same though. The worst part is coming… That’s the part where now that you have them back, you still don’t feel like you won something as valuable as you once thought it was. 

About the only advice I can offer is start working on yourself and putting your energy there. Hopefully, your WW follows your lead and continues to raise the value of her stock.


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## happy as a clam

darkdays... your pain is palpable in your post.

Have you considered divorce? This is no way to live. It sounds like she rug-swept the whole thing and never gave YOUR feelings any credence. You were/are her Plan B, and that's why you feel like sh*t.

Personally, I'd be OUTTA THERE.

Only you know what is right for you, what is sustainable, what you can accept and live with.

And I would tell her to never call you "Sweetie" again. It makes you nauseous, as in vomit in your throat.


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## Pluto2

If you just found out more details last week, it sounds as though she has not been fully truthful. Trickle-truth hurts to the core. How can she (or you) expect to move on and actually R, if the band-aid is still being ripped off.


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## GusPolinski

Pluto2 said:


> If you just found out more details last week, it sounds as though she has not been fully truthful. Trickle-truth hurts to the core. How can she (or you) expect to move on and actually R, if the band-aid is still being ripped off.


Excellent point. I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## murphy5

you have got a lot of months in the R process. I would council to not give up yet. 

Sounds like she did the whole trickle truth about the BJs. That sounds like a PA to ME! lol.

You are probably not going to be able to heal if there are ANY lingering doubts. So I would try one of those lie detector tests on the details of her affair, and if there were any others during the marriage. Then after the results, or after the parking lot confession, you can finally decide if you can go forward or not.

Has she stepped up your love life post DD? is she dressing hot for you, doing kinky sex for you now? baking YOUR favorite cookies? You surely deserve it.


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## workindad

If she is still trickle truthing a year later then there is no way for you to know if you have all of the information you need. 

She still worked with him for 5 months after d day and would have left you. 

I would not be surprised if there is more than you still know. This could be why you are not recovering. You should tell her that and let her know that you are struggling to heal and need her help. 

Ask her for a complete timeline. Then tell her you want a polygraph. Judge her reaction and follow thru. Do not be surprised if you get a parking lot confession.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thummper

murphy5 said:


> you have got a lot of months in the R process. I would council to not give up yet.
> 
> Sounds like she did the whole trickle truth about the BJs. That sounds like a PA to ME! lol.
> 
> You are probably not going to be able to heal if there are ANY lingering doubts. So I would try one of those lie detector tests on the details of her affair, and if there were any others during the marriage. Then after the results, or after the parking lot confession, you can finally decide if you can go forward or not.
> 
> *Has she stepped up your love life post DD? is she dressing hot for you, doing kinky sex for you now? baking YOUR favorite cookies? You surely deserve it.*



Those are really great questions to think about, Murphy! I think if I were in the same situation, feeling the way you do, that I *might* consider walking. However, knowing me, I'd probably "wimp out" choke back the feeling that I was only her back-up plan and wind up just staying for the sake of the kids. Sounds like she really flipped out into fantasyland. I don't want to badmouth your wife. People do stupid things without considering the consequences. She should be doing everything she can to make your life a joy, but my guess is she's gone back to the sloppy clothes and taking you for granted again. I think she feels you won't leave her, so there's no reason to spend a lot of energy "kissing up." I hope that given time she can come to fully understand the damage she's done to you and your marriage, and you can make the best decision for you and your own happiness.

Thummper


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## Plan 9 from OS

murphy5 said:


> Has she stepped up your love life post DD? is she dressing hot for you, doing kinky sex for you now? baking YOUR favorite cookies? You surely deserve it.


This would be critical to the R IMHO, that your WW would want to demonstrate to you how much she truly loves you and is grateful that you are giving her a second chance. 

Also, have you talked to her candidly about how you are feeling and how you are having difficulties with the R? Some will advocate "fake it 'till you make it", but maybe it's better for her to know how you truly feel. I'd lay your cards on the table and let he know that you are strongly considering walking away from the marriage, and then set some conditions that she needs to meet in order to demonstrate that she does love you and values the marriage. That would involve full disclosure of what she did with the boss along with the other things that she should be doing to make you feel special and loved.


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## indiecat

You got a new revelation last week. That is horrible. If you can afford a lie detector test then I would say get one. 

WS cant appreciate the pain they cause, they have not walked the walk and have no concept.

You are a very good man to be trying like this.


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## drifting on

Darkdays

I too became depressed to the point of having suicidal thoughts. There are days I don't know how I make it through. It sounds as if you only have part of the story. This will increase your depression over time, so you need the entire story now. Polygraph was mentioned and while I don't support them as being accurate enough, you need to get one. Until you know the full extent of her affair can you begin to heal. You found out new information last week? Trickle truth is the largest source of misery in my opinion, it proves and confirms the lies, deception, and how you will always be plan "B" in her eyes. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paladin

How much interpersonal work have you two done over the last year? How many hours of individual counseling have each of you put in, and how many hours of couples counseling have you completed together?

Time passing does not magically fix everything. Effort has to be made on both sides to actively address the problems that exist in the relationship. Her EA/PA is one of those problems, but it is not the _only_ problem you two have to deal with. She was 17 when you met, I'm assuming you were young too. The odds were against you to begin with (much like in my situation with my wife, we met in high school as well) and in order to move forward successfully, you two will have to put in some serious actual effort into your relationship.

Consider setting up an appointment with a psychiatrist and discuss anti depressants. I started taking sertraline(ziloft) shortly after dday and can honestly say that the medication was a major contributor to my recovery.


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## Q tip

You have the right to dumpe her at any time for any reason. I don't get the feeling she is putting max energy into you or the marriage. More like regret she was caught. 

What were the consequences of her actions. A couple tearful sorrys?

You are still suffering her betrayal. Not everyone runs R to success. Trust yourself and your feelings. Keep faith in you.

Read up on MMSLP and execute. It will help regardless.


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## toonaive

Seriously consider how you are feeling at this point. Consider even more how your wife is treating you during this difficult time. Dont make the same mistake I did wasting more than 6 years in a false R, only to divorce anyway. It really affected my health.


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## Philat

It sounds like you are still waiting for the other shoe(s) to drop, which is why you are not making any progress (in whatever direction you ultimately decide to go). Cuddling up ain't gonna hack it. You need to sit your W down, look her in the eye and tell her that you need the whole truth all at once (in whatever level of detail you want). Then you probably need some joint counseling with a therapist who understands infidelity and recovery. You won't get over this simply with the passage of time.


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## PhillyGuy13

drifting on said:


> Darkdays
> 
> *I too became depressed to the point of having suicidal thoughts. *There are days I don't know how I make it through. It sounds as if you only have part of the story. This will increase your depression over time, so you need the entire story now. Polygraph was mentioned and while I don't support them as being accurate enough, you need to get one. Until you know the full extent of her affair can you begin to heal. You found out new information last week? Trickle truth is the largest source of misery in my opinion, it proves and confirms the lies, deception, and how you will always be plan "B" in her eyes. Good luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Guys, no piece of ass is ever worth that. Hotline is 800-273-8255. In case it's ever needed. Just in case.


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## barbados

Please tell me they are not still working together, because if they are you vae been in false R for the last year.


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## PhillyGuy13

OP- did you ever get in touch with the boss' wife? I skimmed your older thread, it sounded like you were going to hold off on that. 

Are they still working the same office, after a year?

Did he really wear bunny pajamas?

I think the only way you can get some semblance of the truth is a poly, or a threat of a poly. A lot of messages to her friend and to him indicating she wanted it to go physical. 

Is she still in touch with this friend? Did this friend encourage her in the affair? If so the friendship must end.

I agree with the poster above who said give R more time - you have a year invested. But R can't fully begin until you have 100% honesty, transparency, and remorse.


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## treyvion

toonaive said:


> Seriously consider how you are feeling at this point. Consider even more how your wife is treating you during this difficult time. Dont make the same mistake I did wasting more than 6 years in a false R, only to divorce anyway. It really affected my health.


How was your health affected?


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## badmemory

darkdays said:


> *The wife* left work 5 months later.
> 
> I just think ****ing liar and am waiting for the next freak obsession.


I hope you're talking about the OM's wife not leaving her job for 5 months. Because if your wife stayed for that long - big mistake.

Look OP, most of the posters here tried to tell you she banged him. You shouldn't be shocked to find out more evidence that she did. Never the less, I'm sorry about what you're going through.


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## Thor

Betrayals such as what you experienced will cause the same kinds of traumas as PTSD. They don't call it PTSD officially unless there is some violence involved, but the effects on you are the same.

Every new piece of information resets your recovery back to day 1. In some ways then the entire last year has been erased in terms of your healing. This is one thing you have to make clear to your wife. Trickle truth is absolutely deadly to recovery. And, to be quite clear, any withholding of information on her part now will likely be discovered in the future, and at that time it will destroy your marriage. The ONLY path to a chance of a recovery is for her to tell you everything. Not just what you might ask her, but for her to volunteer anything and everything, even stuff you might not even guess is out there.

Then, you need good therapy. Both of you, IC and MC.

I highly recommend the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. That is a good place to start.


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## Catherine602

Have you considered telling her how you really feel? Why protect her from the pain she caused. If you are not feeling the hand holding cuddling stuff, tell he that you don't want her near at that time. Do want you feel, not what you think you should do. 

You have not started R if you still don't have the truth and you can't express exactly how you feel. She has not atoned and that is an important part of R. She has to walk with you in your pain. You don't reassure her, she reassures you. 

Many times, R falls apart around the 2 yr mark. So don't give her the impression that it is ever a done deal. You decide day by day, whether you can stick it or not. She has to prove every day that you are number one. Let her know she is still likely to lose you and will always have this to concern her.


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## Dyokemm

I think the torture you are feeling is the direct result of two things:

1) You never got the full truth of what went down (the TT last week proves this) AND you avoided the one option that may very well have led to getting this info: a POLYGRAPH.

2) You never made your WW get IC to work out the reasons WHY she did such a stupid thing.

Essentially, her A has been rugswept by the two of you and you are living in he** because of it.


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## alte Dame

I think what she did literally blew your mind and you understandably don't just move past it.

If you read threads here, you'll see that there's a real script to the cheating spouse's behavior. Your WW followed the script to some degree, but in many respects her behavior was borderline demented. It's no wonder that you can't wrap your head around it, no less decide to say, 'don't worry, be happy, life goes on.'

I think your WW needs professional help. Has she been going to a therapist?


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## Lostinthought61

what is she doing of complete ownership of this EA...what steps has she taken to the following:
1. why it happen in the first place
2. what is she doing to make sure it doesn't happen again
3. expose
4. why she does not get dress for you, be seductive for you


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## murphy5

badmemory said:


> Look OP, most of the posters here tried to tell you she banged him. You shouldn't be shocked to find out more evidence that she did. .


I personally do not see much difference between her blowing him and PIV sex. They are equally horrid. I actually probably would rather a cheater just get laid instead of swallowing!

But it IS pretty likely that she did get laid with him. A guy does not stop at just BJs. Maybe a BJ or two at the start, then straight to bumping uglies the very next encounter.

THAT is what he has to figure out...just how far did she go, and how much did she lie to him *after* Dday. If she is still lying/hiding the truth...that would be the deal breaker.


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## Lostinthought61

another thought Dark....have you thought of confronting her and telling her that you might look at separation for a while, this might be the biggest wake up call for her....but more importantly it might help you clear your head and work on yourself for a while.


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## workindad

Dyokemm said:


> I think the torture you are feeling is the direct result of two things:
> 
> 1) You never got the full truth of what went down (the TT last week proves this) AND you avoided the one option that may very well have led to getting this info: a POLYGRAPH.
> 
> 2) You never made your WW get IC to work out the reasons WHY she did such a stupid thing.
> 
> *Essentially, her A has been rugswept by the two of you and you are living in he** because of it.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Rug sweeping is an ass biter


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## Happilymarried25

You have two choices, forgive her, don't talk about the affair and stay in the marriage or if you can't do that then divorce. Bringing up the subject and staying in the marriage will not heal the marriage.


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## verpin zal

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Guys, no piece of ass is ever worth that. Hotline is 800-273-8255. In case it's ever needed. Just in case.


Well, a sizeable amount of time might be needed to get that that "woman of your dreams" is actually a shameless slvt.

I was thinking about that trip we planned even after two weeks of walking in on my girlfriend-supposedly-bride-to-be.

"Time heals", was it?


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## Philat

murphy5 said:


> I personally do not see much difference between her blowing him and PIV sex.


No difference at all when it comes to the infidelity equation.


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## Dyokemm

According to OP, she claims neither happened.

She was using a BLOW POP to give him a show and demonstrate her skills feom my understanding of his post.

Yet somehow,OP's WW wants him to believe that all the teasing, sexual tension and desire, and these 'shows' somehow never led to any physical interactions with this scummy POS.

And OP has been trying to swallow this sh*t sandwich for a year now.

Its no wonder he can't move on...he still doesn't really know what happened.

THIS is why posters here at TAM keep telling BS's to NEVER RUGSWEEP!


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## ThePheonix

Dyokemm said:


> Yet somehow,OP's WW wants him to believe that all the teasing, sexual tension and desire, and these 'shows' somehow never led to any physical interactions with this scummy POS.


It sounds to me like if it never got beyond the teasing, it wasn't her fault. I don't know what more she had to do to get this guy to climb aboard; a strip and lap dance I suppose. This "scummy POS" may have not been as easy a participate as suggested. A lot of guys would have nailed her.

Personally I don't think Darkdays is going to be able to get past his old lady wanting to give this guy an "around the world" experience.


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## Dyokemm

I would tend to think that all of that did happen....and she has been engaged in a massive TT operation since day one.

Unfortunately for OP, if you read his original thread he fumed and got angry but never took steps to find out from her what really happened....he just assumed it never did and did nothing to get his WW to confess all the details or even go to IC to figure out why she did it,

There is almost assuredly more to tell...he** the 'blow pop' incident was just revealed to him LAST WEEK.

OP is in limbo because he is doing nothing to move himself or his WW out of it.

She is back in happy marriage mode cause she was allowed to rugsweep what she did and has never had to face a single consequence or even had to offer a single reason why she did it.


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## Wolfman1968

Pluto2 said:


> If you just found out more details last week, it sounds as though she has not been fully truthful. Trickle-truth hurts to the core. How can she (or you) expect to move on and actually R, if the band-aid is still being ripped off.




:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Voltaire2013

Wolfman1968 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:


I think a poly would be most useful here, you can't forgive if you don't know what you are forgiving. She seemed awful smitten for a one sided infatuation. Search this site for polygraphs and questions to ask. I hope that you have both been to marriage counseling in the past year as well.
You're living in limbo brother, you need to change that. 

Cheers,
V(13)


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## Suspecting2014

darkdays said:


> My wife had a EA not physical supposedly with her married bald fat boss and Dday was a little over a year ago. Trying to R. I have known her 20 years since she was 17, married 15 years with 2 kids.
> I am having major issues and time is not doing much. I walk around like a zombie pretending holding hands, she sits next to me cuddling watching TV but all romantic love is just gone out of me. I’m just depressed all the time. Went to C and I still feel the same. I will think I am over everything and everything is fine and then all of a sudden BANG I am in mental hell OCD over everything and looking for clues to what really is real and what she is lying about.
> What I see as obsessive nature of the EA I really can’t deal with it and over what a loser scumbag that wanted ass that didn’t even do anything romantic for her or really work it. All he did was talk about his problems with her.
> He sent her a recipie and she baked the guy cookies 9 days before Christmas.
> She would talk to him at work any chance she could and stayed 30 minutes late each night to talk.
> She bought special low cut shirts and bras at the end to help seduce him. 15 years with me and she walked around in over sized sweat pants, large white t shirts and a pony tail. This guy her hair was all done nails painted hot pink, hot pink or red lipstick.
> On d day she said if she had slept with him she would of went with him
> A month before d day she was sleeping on the coach each nite.
> I find out just before d day it was going to go physical and she was in his office doing oral on a blow pop as a little show for him and pulling her tops down to show more cleavage. This revelation came out last week.
> She bought the guy a b day present 6 months before his b day just because he mentioned he liked something.
> She bought and listened to that Selena Gomez song come and get it and thought of him.
> I blew this thing all up. Knocked her out of the fog when I emailed the dude and he backed down in two seconds. She say him as a ***** at this point and realized he didn’t real care about her. Notified his wife via letter to her at work. The wife left work 5 months later. BUT I can’t take the obsessive nature of what she was feeling. Its like for this guy she wanted to act like a hot woman and all these years with me she was blah. She was going to throw away her marriage, our 20 year relationship, blow up a family with 2 small kids 8 and 9 years old over what. Plus in her fantasy land she was going to use protection or birth control she didn’t care if she got pregnant. Now I am living with this ***** and she is all oh I was so wrong, oh I love you so much, you’re my life. When she calls me sweetie or love it feels like a drill entering my head. I just think ****ing liar and am waiting for the next freak obsession.


Every new discovery is like a new dday, and it starts all over again. 
You really need to get the whole truth. Nothing less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

That is the most powerful EA post I have ever read OP. I really don't have much for you.

Trying to love again... Is very hard.


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## thummper

And you're *ABSOLUTELY SURE *it never got physical in *any* way??


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## Suspecting2014

Voltaire2013 said:


> I think a poly would be most useful here, you can't forgive if you don't know what you are forgiving. She seemed awful smitten for a one sided infatuation. Search this site for polygraphs and questions to ask. I hope that you have both been to marriage counseling in the past year as well.
> You're living in limbo brother, you need to change that.
> 
> Cheers,
> V(13)


A poly can get the truth, just tell her and make an appointment, she will sing everything before. Tell her is her chance to tell u the whole thing.
Really important after tellig her u need to be whatching the Internet history for searchs like "how to beat the poly", then u will know there is more
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## murphy5

did I misunderstand? What the heck is a BLOWPOP. 

I assumed that meant she did a BJ. If she was just teasing him licking a lollipop...that could be very good news! Once the line is crossed, there is not much going back. If she never actually had sexual contact, and you can get that for sure (like a lie detector test), you might just chalk it up to really bad choices and an overactive libido, and strong future boundaries can be agreed to.
Maybe she was reading 50 shades of gray on lunch break, and just got carried away with the first man she happened on.

once again, you need to know for sure (at least I would want to know in your position)


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## Forest

murphy5 said:


> did I misunderstand? What the heck is a BLOWPOP.
> 
> I assumed that meant she did a BJ. If she was just teasing him licking a lollipop...that could be very good news! Once the line is crossed, there is not much going back.


Its a sucker with bubble gum in the middle. Round, and perfect for foggy headed wives to try and display their allure in the oral dept.


Charms Blow Pops.

Pretty good, too.


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## clipclop2

If only she did what the owl did... OM would have run for the hills!


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## darkdays

Thanks racer. Good to know. your exactly right man I am feeling worse. I had a dream last night my wife shot me in the head and I was in the back of a car with a towel on my head. she was crying saying I didn't mean it and I was saying look you killed me its just going to take time. Im bleeding out. The meaning was easy to see and that's how I am feeling. Thanks for your commenst much appreciated


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## darkdays

happy as a clam said:


> darkdays... your pain is palpable in your post.
> 
> Have you considered divorce? This is no way to live. It sounds like she rug-swept the whole thing and never gave YOUR feelings any credence. You were/are her Plan B, and that's why you feel like sh*t.
> 
> Personally, I'd be OUTTA THERE.
> 
> Only you know what is right for you, what is sustainable, what you can accept and live with.
> 
> And I would tell her to never call you "Sweetie" again. It makes you nauseous, as in vomit in your throat.


I have an 8 year old and a 10 year old plus taking care of my mother who is recovering from stage 4 colon cancer. I just don't want to blow up their world. I am holding everything in. No one knows about this except my best friend and her former best friend. My kids are all about family dinners together, family walks etc. I used to do nightly walks holding hands and the kids would come or just hiking down trails etc. Now I do it in robot mode. I don't want to hurt my kids they are too young and I don't want to blow up their reality.


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## darkdays

Pluto2 said:


> If you just found out more details last week, it sounds as though she has not been fully truthful. Trickle-truth hurts to the core. How can she (or you) expect to move on and actually R, if the band-aid is still being ripped off.


PLUTO exactly bro. last year it was just crushie feelings until I searched emails and found out all sorts of ****. Now it was she was in love but it wasn't real feelings??? REALLY then why were you sleeping on the coach for a month and telling me if we ever separate can she stay in the house until she finds something else. I am like you don't blow up a 20 year relationship for fake feelings. The entire thing sounds sick. If if I was one of you guys reading this I would be like WTF.


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## darkdays

murphy5 said:


> you have got a lot of months in the R process. I would council to not give up yet.
> 
> Sounds like she did the whole trickle truth about the BJs. That sounds like a PA to ME! lol.
> 
> You are probably not going to be able to heal if there are ANY lingering doubts. So I would try one of those lie detector tests on the details of her affair, and if there were any others during the marriage. Then after the results, or after the parking lot confession, you can finally decide if you can go forward or not.
> 
> Has she stepped up your love life post DD? is she dressing hot for you, doing kinky sex for you now? baking YOUR favorite cookies? You surely deserve it.


I told her right off you don't dress hot for me or at least maintain the makeup and all that **** I am ****ing gone. If I left she would be screwed she has no job, no place to go other then her mothers and she would hate that. She didn't blow the guy as far as I know she put on blow pop shows which is utterly disgusting to think about. Its the over the top crap that just messes me up. like that song heartattack where the chick dresses like a girl for him, acts like a woman for him. the worst part is this guy is a nothing. he wasn't some young stud. he is bald, fat, mid fortys married and hated his life.


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## darkdays

workindad said:


> If she is still trickle truthing a year later then there is no way for you to know if you have all of the information you need.
> 
> She still worked with him for 5 months after d day and would have left you.
> 
> I would not be surprised if there is more than you still know. This could be why you are not recovering. You should tell her that and let her know that you are struggling to heal and need her help.
> 
> Ask her for a complete timeline. Then tell her you want a polygraph. Judge her reaction and follow thru. Do not be surprised if you get a parking lot confession.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have already gotten multiple parking lot confessions. each one adding more to the story. But she is at the point where she doesn't want to talk about anything and just starts crying if I mention anything. Im disgusted enough I really don't need to know more.


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## darkdays

Thanks thumper!!! points well taken


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## darkdays

indiecat said:


> You got a new revelation last week. That is horrible. If you can afford a lie detector test then I would say get one.
> 
> WS cant appreciate the pain they cause, they have not walked the walk and have no concept.
> 
> You are a very good man to be trying like this.


Bro if I do a lie detector test and find out I am plan B for real I think I am done. NO way I can stay. The only thinking keeping me here is her telling me its not like that and it was never real. I don't believe it but I can always doubt and feel better. If I see in black and white im second then im done.


----------



## bigfoot

This is why you must do a polygraph. Her intense feelings have caused you to doubt her love for you. You don't feel safe. You never will until you find out if your core doubt is true. You can't trick your heart and soul.

Suck it up, do the poly. Otherwise your issue will fester. Besides, even if you were plan B when she was obsessed, you may not be plan B now that her head is clear. At the time, she told you you were plan B when she said she'd have left you. All you need is what's her mind NOW. Be strong.


----------



## happy as a clam

darkdays... I "get it" that you don't want to rock your kids' world by getting a divorce. No one wants to see their family disintegrate and their kids have to go through all that.

However, you are NOT doing your kids any favors by living in this hellish limbo. You may think you're "faking it" in front of them, but kids are very perceptive and will soon pick up on the unhealthy vibe in your relationship with your wife. You are modeling a very unhealthy marriage to them right now. They will grow up and repeat the patterns. No one comes through a dysfunctional family situation unscathed.

If you are going to stay and try to make it work, well then, you've got to.... try to make it work  I realize that's a tall order, considering all the lies and trickle-truthing. As you've already discovered, reconciliation is a VERY tough row to hoe; some make it through, most don't.

There are many instances of people on TAM who "stayed for the kids", myself included. I can tell you my kids paid a hefty price for my staying.


----------



## darkdays

drifting on said:


> Darkdays
> 
> I too became depressed to the point of having suicidal thoughts. There are days I don't know how I make it through. It sounds as if you only have part of the story. This will increase your depression over time, so you need the entire story now. Polygraph was mentioned and while I don't support them as being accurate enough, you need to get one. Until you know the full extent of her affair can you begin to heal. You found out new information last week? Trickle truth is the largest source of misery in my opinion, it proves and confirms the lies, deception, and how you will always be plan "B" in her eyes. Good luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


drifting on. I have those thoughts about tasting a bullet or just hitting the center divider I just can't hurt my kids, I need to be her to protect them. I got her to reveal more cause I went to my counselor and she said that until my questions are answered I would ocd about this and I can't live like that. I told the wife and I pointed out holes in her story. last year after d day and I sent her boss an email to stay away she turned cold toward him and all of a sudden he was doing little write ups of bad job performance. I told her that's cause he didn't get what he wanted. She made some comment that he must of thought sex was immanent or to that extent. I said why would he think that if your just flurting and **** and I went off. then she confessed that she did the blow pop show three times in his office. one time leaning against him like side to side on her knees as he showed her dhit on the computer. they were doing this in broad fing day light in a office with other people just down the hall. she also confessed she would pull her new sexy low cut blouses down lower when she would go in his office. Its sick just writing this. the girl I gave 20 years to, worked my ass off so she could stay home with the kids, wrote love letters to, sent flowers to. I used to just go get her favorite candy and bring it home or surprise her with wild flowers I would pick for her and this was last year. my dad had just died, my mom was getting done with colon cancer surgery and my wife was out having a fun old time at work everyday. its so sad. Now I am posting on internet forums just to get relief. YOU guys are very helpful at least I don't feel alone.


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## darkdays

Philat said:


> It sounds like you are still waiting for the other shoe(s) to drop, which is why you are not making any progress (in whatever direction you ultimately decide to go). Cuddling up ain't gonna hack it. You need to sit your W down, look her in the eye and tell her that you need the whole truth all at once (in whatever level of detail you want). Then you probably need some joint counseling with a therapist who understands infidelity and recovery. You won't get over this simply with the passage of time.


she wont see a counselor. she went for two sessions and left. Im seeing one. she wants to move on, she has clue what she did to our relationship.


----------



## barbados

darkdays said:


> Bro if I do a lie detector test and find out I am plan B for real I think I am done. NO way I can stay. The only thinking keeping me here is her telling me its not like that and it was never real.* I don't believe it but I can always doubt and feel better. If I see in black and white im second then im done*.


No you can't. You don't actually feel better, you ultimately feel worse. Rug sweeping does not work. You are living proof of that. You are living like a zombie just going through the motions.

Your fear of change is what's now causing you to live in misery. You are using your kids and your mom as excuses at this point.

The good news is things can change for the better, but you need to blow this thing out of the water, file for D, and move on with your life.

The alternative is what you have now, existing but not living.


----------



## darkdays

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Guys, no piece of ass is ever worth that. Hotline is 800-273-8255. In case it's ever needed. Just in case.


Its not about the piece of ass its about how much a ****ing loser you feel like that your wife can do that to you. Especially when you do everything for them. If I was some drunk abusive a hole or out banging chicks on the side then I get what I deserve. But this was like a baseball bat out of the blue to the back of the head. YOU feel like a life failure and a loser is the best way to describe it and then you try and look ahead and whats there??? divorce and being some late fortys ********* hitting single bars in my sweater?? those are the guys we used to look at when we were in our twenty's and feel sorry for. I know one thing I will never marry again, ever. I don't even want another relationship. I made sure her physical and emotional needs were met and when she met this utter loser it didn't matter. all out the window. THATS another thing. if it was some young stud, or some rich handsome guy or something it would make more sense but your ****ing boss, who just happens to be old college roommates of one of the people I work with. so its not just over a piece of ass. I get girls at work hitting on me and I haven't done anything and I still don't. ASS is not the issue. Its about being a dumb ****, a life loser, and looking to a future of what???


----------



## darkdays

PhillyGuy13 said:


> OP- did you ever get in touch with the boss' wife? I skimmed your older thread, it sounded like you were going to hold off on that.
> 
> Are they still working the same office, after a year?
> 
> Did he really wear bunny pajamas?
> 
> I think the only way you can get some semblance of the truth is a poly, or a threat of a poly. A lot of messages to her friend and to him indicating she wanted it to go physical.
> 
> Is she still in touch with this friend? Did this friend encourage her in the affair? If so the friendship must end.
> 
> I agree with the poster above who said give R more time - you have a year invested. But R can't fully begin until you have 100% honesty, transparency, and remorse.


philly guy. She is not working there anymore. YES the ****ing guy is 6 foot 2 and had his wife buy him feetie pajamas with a zipper like you would see a toddler ware. I didn't even realize they made that crap for adults. THATS the man she did this for. ughhh
YES I had her write up a letter and send it to the guys wife at her work with a nice 8x10 photo of my wife. detailing all the **** he said about her and her mother. screw that POS. BUT she left a lot out cause she didn't tell me a lot as it was. HER friend had an affair and was telling experiences and crap I found out so I am sure that helped contribute. SHE ended that friendship last December.


----------



## darkdays

badmemory said:


> I hope you're talking about the OM's wife not leaving her job for 5 months. Because if your wife stayed for that long - big mistake.
> 
> Look OP, most of the posters here tried to tell you she banged him. You shouldn't be shocked to find out more evidence that she did. Never the less, I'm sorry about what you're going through.


I don't think she banged him. I think she tried to seduce the guy and he was like one of these guys that afraid or nervous or what have you. I mean the dude sleeps in feetie pajamas or however you spell that. if some girl walked into my office doing oral on a blow pop three times and I was a scum bag I would of shut the door and pulled it out. He just apparently sat there and watched all frozen. I definitely think it was days from going physical when I blew it up.


----------



## darkdays

treyvion said:


> How was your health affected?


My health. well I am filled with rage most of the time. in December I had to get my gallbladder taken out from attacks. before this crap I had no issues with it at all. I think all that rage just manifested in disease. I feel tired all the time.


----------



## darkdays

Dyokemm said:


> I think the torture you are feeling is the direct result of two things:
> 
> 1) You never got the full truth of what went down (the TT last week proves this) AND you avoided the one option that may very well have led to getting this info: a POLYGRAPH.
> 
> 2) You never made your WW get IC to work out the reasons WHY she did such a stupid thing.
> 
> Essentially, her A has been rugswept by the two of you and you are living in he** because of it.


dyokmen

I agree with you.


----------



## darkdays

Xenote said:


> what is she doing of complete ownership of this EA...what steps has she taken to the following:
> 1. why it happen in the first place
> 2. what is she doing to make sure it doesn't happen again
> 3. expose
> 4. why she does not get dress for you, be seductive for you


XENOTE

NONE of thos ****ing questions have been answered NONE of them and when I ask she just lies to my face. SHE doesn't know why she did it other then it was her best friends bad influence and none of it was real feelings. "doent make sense to me'"
WHY would she treat this guy so special??? What did he offer in the middle of a work office with no sex and yet you had this sick fantasy obsession??? 

I ask her and she says HE had NOTHING it was all in her head and im not second best cry cry rinse repeat. 

THATS my point she isn't even honest with herself.

Then she says she would of never slept with him.

I say so you sleep on the coach for a month, tell me at the time our marriage was over, tell me if you HAD slept with him you would of chosen him, as of last week now I find out your blowing lollipos in his office. BUT you wouldn't have slept with him>???? Utter nonsense and bull****. IF the guy had shown her some romance and went for it she would of banged him and left me. THATS how I feel. she denies it.


----------



## darkdays

Dyokemm said:


> According to OP, she claims neither happened.
> 
> She was using a BLOW POP to give him a show and demonstrate her skills feom my understanding of his post.
> 
> Yet somehow,OP's WW wants him to believe that all the teasing, sexual tension and desire, and these 'shows' somehow never led to any physical interactions with this scummy POS.
> 
> And OP has been trying to swallow this sh*t sandwich for a year now.
> 
> Its no wonder he can't move on...he still doesn't really know what happened.
> 
> THIS is why posters here at TAM keep telling BS's to NEVER RUGSWEEP!


Exactly. she is telling me close to when she felt it was going to go physical that she entered his office with more clevege showing pulling her low cut blows down to show of the c cups and blew a BLOW pop. I had her actually demonstrate what she did. ****ing sick sucking it in and out with no hands, then essentially blowing it with hands etc. twice infront of the desk and then once leaning against his side while they pretended to work on a laptop like he was showing her a program. sick ****. during work hours middle of the day. she was coming home all horney and wanting to get banged everyday in the last month before d day. that and her dramatic dress and makeup changes was a total tip off. bubblegum lipstick and bubble gum nail polish. ****ing *****. while I got over size greasy sweat pants and greasy hair in a pony tail everyday. im getting pissed writing this.


----------



## darkdays

ThePheonix said:


> It sounds to me like if it never got beyond the teasing, it wasn't her fault. I don't know what more she had to do to get this guy to climb aboard; a strip and lap dance I suppose. This "scummy POS" may have not been as easy a participate as suggested. A lot of guys would have nailed her.
> 
> Personally I don't think Darkdays is going to be able to get past his old lady wanting to give this guy an "around the world" experience.


BINGO you said it. ANY other man would of had her banged in two seconds flat. She is a real pretty chick, 5 10 long black hair, light eyes, good figure with c cups. The blow pop stuff just started like three days before D day. before that it was talking and bumping into each other and crap like that according to her. flurting, not all sorts of obvious sexual ****. she also did these shows while asking him questions about work but it was obvious what she was doing.


----------



## darkdays

Dyokemm said:


> I would tend to think that all of that did happen....and she has been engaged in a massive TT operation since day one.
> 
> Unfortunately for OP, if you read his original thread he fumed and got angry but never took steps to find out from her what really happened....he just assumed it never did and did nothing to get his WW to confess all the details or even go to IC to figure out why she did it,
> 
> There is almost assuredly more to tell...he** the 'blow pop' incident was just revealed to him LAST WEEK.
> 
> OP is in limbo because he is doing nothing to move himself or his WW out of it.
> 
> She is back in happy marriage mode cause she was allowed to rugsweep what she did and has never had to face a single consequence or even had to offer a single reason why she did it.


I asked her a hundred times I just got into a fight over this yesterday and the weekend as to WHY?? WHAT?? HOW?? she has no answers. Other then she had fake feelings and her evil friend influenced her. BUT the friend claims she new nothing about any of this. so MY wife is saying a general bad influence since her friend had an affair with some guy at the gym. GUYs now you see my problem. I can't get answers.


----------



## darkdays

weightlifter said:


> That is the most powerful EA post I have ever read OP. I really don't have much for you.
> 
> Trying to love again... Is very hard.


ITs sick bro. Its just sick. how can you act that way and this is a dude just talking to you in the office about how he hates life and is supposedly not giving you romantic talk or anything. It disgust me that this story is about my wife who I have know for 20 years. The obsessive sickness is whats getting me. some guy send s you a recipe so you bake him cookies, your buying ****ty work clothes for him, makeup, sleeping on the coach and you haven't kissed or done anything?? its psychotic. without knowing why or how why couldn't this happen again?? I hate life


----------



## darkdays

thummper said:


> And you're *ABSOLUTELY SURE *it never got physical in *any* way??


I don't think they had sex. did they kiss and hug and make out she denies it but I have my doubts. I can't see this level of crazy with nothing going on just swiping each other as they walk past each other or leaning into each other. BUT WHO knows the entire thing makes non sense to me man.


----------



## Clay2013

I am sorry I have not read of the post and if I am wrong or im repeating something I am sorry. 

It really sounds like you need to make a decision on what you are going to do. I personally would just ask her to take a poly. I think her reaction will be all the answer you need. If she pause and says no then you know something more went on that she does not want to tell you. If she agrees to take it then its good for you. Tell her this well help you heal and let go of things. 

I doubt she will agree to it. 

Clay


----------



## larry.gray

If the reviews turned negative when you blew it up you should have your wife talk to a lawyer and bring a lawsuit for sexual harassment.

Unless POSOM is the owner's son, they'll fire him as soon as the suit is filed. Let that be your revenge on him.


----------



## farsidejunky

I hate to say this, but you have allowed this to go on too long. You are allowing her to see it is okay to trickle truth, refuse to answer questions, etc. because there are no repercussions. As such, she knows she never has to answer. It is the good old "stop or I will yell stop again" adage. 

The poly would solve this. So would actually holding her accountable for not answering your questions. Give her one last opportunity to answer your questions. If she refuses, schedule the poly and don't tell her. Then when you arrive at the poly appointment, and she asks why you are there, then explain it to her. 

She could refuse. She could agree. She could answer your questions on the spot. Any of those will tell you exactly what you need to know to move forward. But stop allowing her to avoid the information you need by giving her repercussions for refusal. 

You are literally dying inside because you have turned your power over to her. You can take that power back, but you have to be willing to lose the marriage to get this done. I am sorry you are going through this and I wish you luck.


----------



## happy as a clam

Ok darkdays... this really isn't that complicated (other than the head rot she caused in your physical and emotional state) in terms of steps to take.

Here's what you do. You tell her that these most recent revelations are completely UNACCEPTABLE and have thrown you right back to d-day and square-one. She either:

1) goes to marriage counseling for AS LONG AS you need her to, in order to deal with this (no bailing out after 2 sessions) in order to have a real shot at meaningful reconciliation;
2) provides a detailed, written timeline of everything that happened (as much detail as YOU need her to reveal);
3) goes to her own individual counseling to figure out what the h*ll her problem was in the first place that allowed her to betray you;
4) she goes for a polygraph;
5) full exposure to whoever you need to expose to

*OR*

You file for divorce, custody, and throw her out on her a$$ back to live with her Mom.

No one wants to see their family broken up. But she has a chance to make the RIGHT choice, to save your marriage, to allow you to feel like a fully functioning man in a marriage. If she refuses your demands, then SHE is choosing to end the marriage, not YOU.

Sorry for all that you're going through...


----------



## Lostinthought61

Dark...i think you should do is sit her down in a room and press of god into her and i would hold blank divorce papers and you tell her she has an ultimatum either she agrees to the following demands: 

full exposer
full details (answers all your questions)
full IC/MC

until you are satisfied and recovering properly or you give her...her walking papers...enough is enough...and if at that point she says no then proceed with divorce because he is the thing, it will never get better, she will always try to rug sweep it and mostly then not she will do it again. all she is doing is placating you to an extent...its one or the other and she has to decide and then you have to decide.


----------



## GusPolinski

I was going to suggest that OP read jj123456's thread so that he might *hopefully* realize that he's still being TTed... but it looks like jj has deleted his thread.

Damn.


----------



## Cabsy

As some others have said, you need real answers to your questions. That creates a starting point towards an already uncertain future with her. You're a year in and you still seem to be stuck at the starting line, which is a very painful place to be for so long. You don't know what she did, why she did it, and if she will ever do it again. That's why you're even more depressed. She is an unknown quantity and she sits at the center of your life. How could you hope to build on that given what transpired? You don't seem at peace with it all, but then, you'd be a fool if you were.

You're still around, so she has what she wants (for now), but do you have what you need? Take initiative now, or else be prepared for things to boil over down the road. Another year like this won't do you any good.

You don't have to be mean, kick her out, play mind games, etc. You only have to know what you want for yourself and what you need from her if she's going to continue being a part of your life. Spell it out to her, and if she can't hack it, then start over with someone who gets it.


----------



## Thor

Ditto on what Happy as a Clam wrote. DarkDays, that is your only path.

I think your biggest roadblock is your own groundrule that you want to keep the marriage together. You have various reasons such as the kids, your mom, your health, etc. Those all have merit as reasons, but here is the key: If you are not willing to end your marriage, you have no real power to resolve this situation.

Clam's post is the roadmap. Here's why it works. It removes any hope on her part that she can continue to stonewall, rugsweep, gaslight, or trickle-truth. It puts her in the position of having to work to save the marriage, because you have told her the marriage is already gone.

Right now you are in the position of doing all the work, and pleading with her to help. She is in the position of deciding if it is safer to tell you the full truth, or if it is safer to withhold information. She is deciding if it is less painful TO HER to try to manage you in the status quo or if it would be less painful to go to MC.

Try looking at this from a strategy standpoint, taking into account each side's goals and viewpoints. She has nothing to lose with the status quo. She is getting what she wants, which is the intact family. You have to make a major change in the rules in order to change her actions.


----------



## Dyokemm

"If I see in black and white im second then im done."

This is EXACTLY why you do not do anything to find out the facts for sure.

It is why you insist you caught it before PA....and reinforce this view by constantly belittling POS as a childish, incompetent boob...point is though, no matter how disgusting YOU see him today, your WW wasn't viewing him that way during the A.

You can assuage your hurt pride all you want by ridiculing his looks, pajamas, etc, today....hope it makes you feel better.

But it does nothing to mask YOUR primary fear.

YOU are terrified to know the truth and cling desperately to denial of what actually went on.

And your above statement says why....you would either have to leave her....OR you would feel like you essentially abandoned your own manhood in order to stay with her.

So for a year you have lived this he** of anger and obsession about the entire A.....wanting to know, but absolutely terrified of what you will truly discover.

It is up to you to end this limbo he**hole you have pulled yourself and your family into.

It is time you finally start resolving this once and for all.


----------



## Thor

I think you need some good information.

First, you should consult with a good divorce atty. Most will provide a free 10 or 15 minute consultation either in person or by phone. You can get a good feel for the process, costs, and what the typical outcome is for someone in your situation.

One big question is alimony. If you live in an alimony state, you are setting yourself up for more alimony the longer you stay. Sometimes it becomes permanent alimony after a certain time period. In my state it is 20 years. Lifetime permanent alimony. 9 years 364 days results in NO alimony at all. 10 years to 19yrs 364 days results in limited alimony. If you go one day longer and hit 20 years BAMMO you pay alimony for-f'n-ever.

You need real info on alimony, pensions, child support, who keeps the marital home, child custody, etc.

Secondly, I think you should read about infidelity. Your wife is textbook. The ebooks "Women's Infidelity" and "Women's Infidelity 2" will explain your wife's thought processes. You will see her on almost every page of both books. You can find them cheap/free online if you poke around. I wouldn't pay full price, the author is overly optimistic on her pricing!

"After the Affair" by Janis Spring will explain what you're going through. You'll see you're not alone, and you are normal. You will also learn a bit about your wife's psychology since D-Day. Your wife should read this book too.

I think it is a very bad sign that she refuses MC or IC. This is typical, though. It shows that she is avoiding something she doesn't want to face. Either she is hiding more information or she deeply fears facing herself. Perhaps both. A lot of people think therapists are mind readers, and so they fear MC/IC will result in all kinds of truths being revealed. It is possible there is more you don't know about which she is afraid will be revealed.

She demonstrates a lack of true remorse and lack of a true commitment to recovery. If she was horrified at what she did and felt terrible for hurting you, she'd be acting quite differently.

One lesson is that she doesn't think the way that you do. Stop projecting your own values and logic onto her. Stop thinking "I would never do that!". Just take it at face value that what she says and what she does are revealing to you her true thoughts and her true template of what is ok.


----------



## alte Dame

I remember your earlier thread and have read pretty much all of your posts.

Your story is similar to a few others in that the infidelity is well past the normal dysfunction. In other words, she followed the cheater's script to a degree, but was also acting out in a way that presents almost as mentally unstable.

As I said earlier, it sounds like this sudden 'new her' blew your mind. And you suffer from something of the Groucho Marx complex. You simply don't want to believe that you are married to a woman who would lust after and try to seduce a fat, bald, older guy who wears footie pajamas to bed. To you, this is not at all the woman you thought you knew for years. Her behavior has blown your mind. You think you're going to go nuts trying to believe what she did.

I get that your family considerations push you to try to reconcile. You should, however, at the very least, make it clear to her that you are a hair's breadth from leaving unless she goes to therapy.

If she commits to serious therapy and starts some self-examination, you might have a starting point with her. Right now, you don't respect her, do you? That's what I sense. And you don't want to sentence yourself to a life with a crazy cheater. Who would?


----------



## weightlifter

Just a suggestion. My wife had an EA with an ex. Disclaimer I caught it much earlier than you did. Suggestions from someone who's been there. Note I did not do it all correct but FWIW.

1) schedule the poly already. You are only prolonging your agony. Rtbp used the threat of a poly masterfully. He was TT only once and it was early on. Btw his wife showed real remorse. Probably the best wayward I've seen here for numerous reasons.

2) my wife and I had/have other issues. After one huge blow up (think along the lines of poking the bear once too often) I told her we were getting a divorce and saw an attorney. My caving to not filing a few days later and I was 9 hours from putting down the retainer was me making a list of demands. They were not negotiable. Things are better. Not perfect, but better. Sex went from 1 to 2 a month to about 5 a week for example. Funny part of that is, now that I'm getting laid again, I'm hella more willing to work my own numerous shortcomings.

They say here to save a marriage, you have to be willing to blow it up. I am primary evidence that is true.

I give you a plan sir.

Execute it.


----------



## aug

larry.gray said:


> *If the reviews turned negative when you blew it up you should have your wife talk to a lawyer and bring a lawsuit for sexual harassment.*
> 
> Unless POSOM is the owner's son, they'll fire him as soon as the suit is filed. Let that be your revenge on him.



The bold is a very good point.

There is a time limit, a statute limitation, to filing a lawsuit. You and her need to be aware of the time limit. Get a free consultation with a couple of employment lawyers pronto to see if you/she has a case.

Now, if she balks, then she's still protecting her love interest and you know where her priority is (no matter what she says or cries - her (in)action will speak volumes). And you'll know what her feelings about her boss.


----------



## ThePheonix

darkdays said:


> and her dramatic dress and makeup changes was a total tip off. bubblegum lipstick and bubble gum nail polish. ****ing *****. while I got over size greasy sweat pants and greasy hair in a pony tail everyday. im getting pissed writing this.


If you didn't get pissed there be something wrong with you Dawg. The stark truth is, and you already know it, you dress up for someone you're trying to impress. Although I happen to like pony tails, she wasn't trying to impress you. The way she behaved and treated you in the process most likely means she wouldn't be looking forward to a second honeymoon. I'd have to cut this one loose. Her brick house figure, eyes, and hair ain't worth a sh-t if it ain't focused on you. In this game it doesn't matter who the man loves. It's who the woman wants that is tantamount to the relationship .


----------



## ThePheonix

aug said:


> There is a time limit, a statute limitation, to filing a lawsuit. You and her need to be aware of the time limit. Get a free consultation with a couple of employment lawyers pronto to see if you/she has a case.


Since "the truth" is promulgate as paramount, how do ya'll propose they file a sexual harassment suit without, not only lying, but commenting the criminal offense of perjury?


----------



## bigfoot

OP, you are not gonna make sense of her crap. I'm sure she felt sexy being able,to seduce a fat, frightened, semi powerful man. She got off on that power and affirmation. 

Still it won't matter to your peace of mind. She needs to know her "why". You need to believe her "why" and then you still have to decide if she's salvageable. 

As for being the old guy picking up women...here is some news. there are a lot of age appropriate women out there looking for dudes like you. Its not sad. Get over appearances. You can be married and miserable, but look good to others, or better.


----------



## ThePheonix

My advise, on Bigfoot's post, is to make sure the age appropriate women are about 8-10 younger than you.


----------



## aug

ThePheonix said:


> Since "the truth" is promulgate as paramount, how do ya'll propose they file a sexual harassment suit without, not only lying, but commenting the criminal offense of perjury?



Who's asking them to lie or perjure?


----------



## clipclop2

Isn't it possible that her performance actually did decline after all of this?


----------



## bryanp

She has never taken ownership of the affair. She claims it was her evil friend's influence.....................Oh please. What she is saying in essence it is not my faulty. She has played you for a complete fool and if you stay with her she will have been correct. She is merely in damage control and clearly has very little respect for you or your marriage.

IF YOU DON'T RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


----------



## ThePheonix

aug said:


> Who's asking them to lie or perjure?


Look up the EEOC definition of sexual harassment and tell me where the "unwelcome sexual advances" plays in. The way this story is presented, the girl was chasing the boss by dressing provocatively, flashing her C cups, simulating oral sex and who knows what else.
What you guys seem to be suggesting is the they concoct a phony sexual harassment claim about how this guy was making unwelcome advances to her in order to get him fired as payback; and be willing to present that story under oath on the witness stand.


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## aug

ThePheonix said:


> Look up the EEOC definition of sexual harassment and tell me where the "unwelcome sexual advances" plays in. The way this story is presented, the girl was chasing the boss by dressing provocatively, flashing her C cups, simulating oral sex and who knows what else.
> What you guys seem to be suggesting is the they concoct a phony sexual harassment claim about how this guy was making unwelcome advances to her in order to get him fired as payback; and be willing to present that story under oath on the witness stand.


Okay, I understand.

I was thinking more along the line that they should consult a (employment?) lawyer or two or three to see if there are any grounds. And be mindful of the time limitation.

I make the assumption that their story is not complete as presented on the internet. 

I also was curious to see what her reaction may be.


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## jim123

ThePheonix said:


> Look up the EEOC definition of sexual harassment and tell me where the "unwelcome sexual advances" plays in. The way this story is presented, the girl was chasing the boss by dressing provocatively, flashing her C cups, simulating oral sex and who knows what else.
> What you guys seem to be suggesting is the they concoct a phony sexual harassment claim about how this guy was making unwelcome advances to her in order to get him fired as payback; and be willing to present that story under oath on the witness stand.


If one party is a higher position, it is assumed sexual harassment


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## Philat

darkdays said:


> XENOTE
> 
> NONE of thos ****ing questions have been answered NONE of them and when I ask she just lies to my face. SHE doesn't know why she did it other then it was her best friends bad influence and none of it was real feelings. "doent make sense to me'"
> WHY would she treat this guy so special??? What did he offer in the middle of a work office with no sex and yet you had this sick fantasy obsession???
> 
> I ask her and she says HE had NOTHING it was all in her head and im not second best cry cry rinse repeat.


OK, so you tell her: "Fine. You don't know why, it was all in your head. But I cannot live with this answer. So either you go to therapy with me to *find* the answer or we are done. Your move."


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## clipclop2

I think it would be smarmy to attempt to sue the employer when in fact she should have been fired and not given a positive recommendation.


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## ThePheonix

jim123 said:


> If one party is a higher position, it is assumed sexual harassment


You know the definition of "assumed". Besides, you see my point. If the story is true, they (she) would have to concoct a story and spin it in a manner making him the pursuer as opposed to her, which is an outright lie; all for the purpose of getting this guy into trouble. What's she going to say, "Your honor, all I was doing was showing him my more than ample cleavage and demonstrating my oral skills when he made suggestive remarks" 
I guess when it comes to retaliating against the guy who your wife has the hots for, lying, even under oath, is a acceptable practice." Is that what you're saying? If not, I'd like to hear your reasoning.


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## clipclop2

That's why they do investigations. The truth matters. People's reputations and lives can be destroyed. It isn't right.


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## Decorum

Maybe the reason they did not consummate the lust is because his garage door opener in malfunctioning, maybe diabetes or some other form of ED.

Dark, from your posts it sounds to me like it is inevitable that eventually you will unlink your self concept from her, and step back and objectively see her for who she is. 


You are in denial now, which is ok, it is part of the stages of grief. You still don't want to see your wife that way (Desperate, out of control, low value), but while you hold onto it you tend to assume it was you.

Well it was not. It was her.


Looking back she can see it was a fantasy, at the time she was willing to sacrifice everything for the chance at it, even if it was short term.

Disconnected from reality? Well yay of course.

There is no logical reason for something so irrational.

She was not responding to something logical but something primal, an urge for validation. 

She went with it and ignored her better judgment, she was lying to herself and self-deceived.


She can probably see that now, but she is in cya mode because she is afraid of hurting you more and losing her life. (that includes you, its not a totally bad thing). 


She is making a lot of mistakes, and making it a lot worse, she is hurting you more and making it less likely the two of you can ever recover form this.


You will be doing her and you a favor if you follow some of the advice here and bring this to a head.

Tell her she is making mistakes that are dooming the relationship and you will have to guide her through this, that she may not understand it but you are working toward a resolution that you can live with. Without making any promises tell her you will do what you have to do in order to try and save the relationship and that she has to trust you.


Dark, none of the advice so far is off the table. What will work to stop the TT, guide her to an understanding of remorsefulness and actions that heal?


*I can tell from your posts that she can trust you, she should know that too. Insist she does, you deserve it!!!!*

You are not acting as her enemy but as the protector of the relationship and family don't apologize for that.

She has some issues, they do not seem out of reach of help, even though they are just plain messed up. You will never see her quite the same again, but she still may make a good partner, after some work. (Can you get past it and accept the new relationship? That is more than I know, but you have time to answer that for yourself.)


My concern is your health and happiness and the good of your family, you have to change this dynamic to a more healthy one or it will not end well. Whether it ends in divorce or reconciliation.

I really do wish you well.

Take care!


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## Chaparral

darkdays said:


> Exactly. she is telling me close to when she felt it was going to go physical that she entered his office with more clevege showing pulling her low cut blows down to show of the c cups and blew a BLOW pop. I had her actually demonstrate what she did. ****ing sick sucking it in and out with no hands, then essentially blowing it with hands etc. twice infront of the desk and then once leaning against his side while they pretended to work on a laptop like he was showing her a program. sick ****. during work hours middle of the day. she was coming home all horney and wanting to get banged everyday in the last month before d day. that and her dramatic dress and makeup changes was a total tip off. bubblegum lipstick and bubble gum nail polish. ****ing *****. while I got over size greasy sweat pants and greasy hair in a pony tail everyday. im getting pissed writing this.


Coming home horney everyday is a good indicator they didn't have sex. Usually, what we see here is that if they fall in love and have sex they cut their husbands sex way down and a lot of times cut him off completely.

Generally, if they do not change sex frequency or increase frequency, love is not involved, she's just in it for the sex.


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## Chaparral

Actually, I don't see any difference in this and any other EA. there have bee so many here. The difference here is that she seems to want to save the marriage. 

I believe in her mind she sees it pretty much as you do. Yes she was in a fantasy of her own making. Her fantasy figure wasn't even in the ball park of a decent fantasy. This means it was almost all a mental thing she was performing in.

Looking back on it she isn't seeing it through the rose colored glasses any more. I mean, you see the guy as a toad as anyone would. After reality hit her, the rainbow and unicorns have been transformed into the toad in the dirty pond warts and all. As a matter of fact, I would guess her mind has changed so much a poly would probably be of little value. I have known many people that became involved with someone and then wondered the rest of their lives what the hell they were thinking......... especially when everyone was asking them what they saw in the other person.

Here is a list that has worked for many familes. Print it off and go over each item with her and explain how you feel about it and her thoughts about what that is putting you through.

Wayward spouse instructions:

*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! 
*


----------



## Thor

Chaparral said:


> Coming home horney everyday is a good indicator they didn't have sex. Usually, what we see here is that if they fall in love and have sex they cut their husbands sex way down and a lot of times cut him off completely.
> 
> Generally, if they do not change sex frequency or increase frequency, love is not involved, she's just in it for the sex.


Usually that is true. But there is a subset of women who will ramp up the sex at home during an affair. Especially telling is that she tries out new techniques or wants different positions or acts than before. These could be something she learned and liked in the affair, or something she wants to try out in her affair and is testing it out at home first.

This is not the most common scenario. Most common is either sex stays at the same low level at home or it reduces even further.

OP has to trust his gut, and decide what he believes is true in his situation.

More important than whether they had sex is whether she is making an honest and strong effort at R now.


----------



## happy as a clam

*OP, are you still around?* Getting a sinking feeling that you've jumped ship...

Lots of great advice here...


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## ThePheonix

clipclop2 said:


> That's why they do investigations. The truth matters. People's reputations and lives can be destroyed. It isn't right.


In this case she's going to have to lie to file an S/H claim; designed to extort funds and to get the desired boyfriend in hot water and fired. The investigation would cause her office stooge a black eye, but it seems the end justifies the means in the minds of some.


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## darkdays

alte Dame said:


> I remember your earlier thread and have read pretty much all of your posts.
> 
> Your story is similar to a few others in that the infidelity is well past the normal dysfunction. In other words, she followed the cheater's script to a degree, but was also acting out in a way that presents almost as mentally unstable.
> 
> As I said earlier, it sounds like this sudden 'new her' blew your mind. And you suffer from something of the Groucho Marx complex. You simply don't want to believe that you are married to a woman who would lust after and try to seduce a fat, bald, older guy who wears footie pajamas to bed. To you, this is not at all the woman you thought you knew for years. Her behavior has blown your mind. You think you're going to go nuts trying to believe what she did.
> 
> I get that your family considerations push you to try to reconcile. You should, however, at the very least, make it clear to her that you are a hair's breadth from leaving unless she goes to therapy.
> 
> If she commits to serious therapy and starts some self-examination, you might have a starting point with her. Right now, you don't respect her, do you? That's what I sense. And you don't want to sentence yourself to a life with a crazy cheater. Who would?


your right


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## clipclop2

I hope not ThePheonix.


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## ThePheonix

Me to. The suggestion of filing a false claim as a tactic was disappointing.


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## darkdays

clipclop2 said:


> That's why they do investigations. The truth matters. People's reputations and lives can be destroyed. It isn't right.


clip your are absolutely wrong. First of all the guy was going for her. He gave her a CD of love songs first week on the job. He kept getting her into his office for work and then would discuss how unhappy he was with his marriage and talk about traveling the world etc. The guy saw things she liked on facebook and then made his conversations based on that. he was trying to build a connection. He brought her in the office and was showing her things on his pc and one of them was about magazines that just happened to be porn magazines. The dude would brush up on her. or come behind her and whisper inher ear. he would memorize what she liked for lunch and run out and get it for her. The guy was in a position of power and she started as an outside consultant. HE convinced management that he needed an assistant and they created a job for her. HE had a recliner installed in his office after she was there for a while and saw some interest given back. MOST of her actions were in her head. It wasn't until a month before this blew up that she was doing the more sexy flirting. HE invited her to valentines day lunch which she refused even though she wanted to go I am sure. Then when this all blew up and she wanted everything to be just professional he kept pursuing her. AT that time she was doing nothing but work. HE could not accept that and started writing her up and acting abusive in the office. AT that time she brought sexual harassment charges against him through human resources and asked to be moved. SHE didn't sue anybody. SHE just wanted her job protected while she looked for a new one.


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## darkdays

FOLLOW UP:
Thanks for the advice on here most of it has been very helpful. Last weekend I sent her site that help file for divorce told her I wanted to know everything or its done. Told her this is the only chance to save everything. Long story short I let her write out things. She didn't include what I new already. She admitted that she found the guy interesting in the beginning and wanted to get to know him more. she said he reminded her of me. of course cough. She said basically they would have these long life conversations, she fell in love with the guy. mentally made a plan how she and him could be together. they would move into an apartment all this crap. had fantasy's about sex, apartment living all this ****. The guy made it clear he was interested in her wanted to take her out etc. "reality he wanted office ass" They never did anything physical or had romantic talk. She was trying to progress things at the end and I guess he was thinking of how to not get caught. she was thinking her golden vagina would make him leave his wife and then she would leave me. When I blew it up she says she realized it was all a fantasy and she really wanted me. So she acted normal business like at work. He wanted more and then started attacking her work etc. 

NOW of course she wants me and it was always me and she was lost in fantasy world for a year.

OF course this chick was looping demi lovato heart attack and selena gomex come and get it in her earphones everyday. I feel like second best even if she says its not true.

so I guess I am looking at a future of living with her and her trying for how long to look good for me and act **** I am number one.

second choice divorce, give my kids a broken home.

NEITHER really works for me.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

darkdays said:


> so I guess I am looking at a future of living with her and her trying for how long to look good for me and act like I am number one.
> 
> second choice divorce, give my kids a broken home.
> 
> NEITHER really works for me.


It sounds to me like you may never fully get over this.

If so, I can't blame you. I'd have a hard time coming to terms with a wife who fell so deeply for another man. I mean it hadn't gone PA yet and she was planning a her life after you, with this guy.

What I would have the hardest time with is if this were to happen again years from now. But this time she has sex with this guy before you figured it out and stop it, again. This would haunt me the most.

I'm not a big fan of MC's when dealing with infidelity, but I think that her getting IC for a year, or so, may help.

She says that she doesn't know the why(s), right? If she truly doesn't know and does not figure it out. I could see this happen again.


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## Cabsy

I still have a hard time buying that they never did anything physical. If that's all he wanted, and she wanted him, and she's blasting "Come and Get It" on her headphones all day... either he never came and got the only thing he wanted from her, or she never gave up what she seemed so willing to give to him. If she was that into him, why did it never progress? Can she answer such questions in a real way?

As an observer, her answers seem shallow and unsatisfying. It can't be that complicated. Either she knows the real answers and doesn't want to lose you or hurt or own situation, or she is hiding from the truth herself, because it's painful being wrong and dissecting your own mistakes. If she hasn't noodled around in her own brain to find what caused her behavior, then as Groundpounder said, how can you have any confidence this won't happen again? 

I sympathize with a lot of what you're feeling. I've wanted to leave, but then I think of shared custody, visitation, and child support... the childhood I knew. I've wanted to stay, and tell her that I'm in R 100%, but then the next day I'm down in the dumps wondering how she could behave the way she did... if I can ever get over it while still with her, or if she could ever do it again. I imagine these feelings are somewhat normal. It's up to us, based on our own feelings and assessment of our situations, to decide if we want to leave or stay. 

It's clear you are torn, and again, I understand that feeling well. I hope you find more peace in your life.


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## Yeswecan

darkdays said:


> She bought and listened to that Selena Gomez song come and get it and thought of him.
> I blew this thing all up. Knocked her out of the fog when I emailed the dude and he backed down in two seconds. She say him as a ***** at this point and realized he didn’t real care about her. Notified his wife via letter to her at work. The wife left work 5 months later. BUT I can’t take the obsessive nature of what she was feeling. Its like for this guy she wanted to act like a hot woman and all these years with me she was blah. She was going to throw away her marriage, our 20 year relationship, blow up a family with 2 small kids 8 and 9 years old over what. Plus in her fantasy land she was going to use protection or birth control she didn’t care if she got pregnant. Now I am living with this ***** and she is all oh I was so wrong, oh I love you so much, you’re my life. When she calls me sweetie or love it feels like a drill entering my head. I just think ****ing liar and am waiting for the next freak obsession.



This is the crap I can not understand for the life of me. The mindset that all of they could do without a care in the world. They talk all lovey blah blah blah as if the BH simply got over the fact the W was doing all these things with out a care in the world. In their brain it was justified for some stupid reason. Astonishing. 

Darkdays, I really feel for you man. Your upset expressed in your post is tangible. Somehow I do not believe your wife suffered any consequences of much measure.


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## darkdays

Cabsy Most of this was her obsession but they were in the flirting stage. This guy was probably thinking if something happens he could lose his job, then there is his own wife etc he wasn't in love he just wanted some hot office ass. THE last month or weeks before it was about to go physical is when she started showing physical interest in her actions with the flirting. I blew it up literally days before it was going to go physical. BUT does that matter. She dressed, put on makeup for him. went shopping to multiple stores for clothes to look sexy etc. She was experimenting going out and eating all different kinds of foods to try and look sophisticated cause he liked gourmet foods etc. she was doing all these special things for a guy that gave he nothing. BUT he did provide a fantasy escape sitting and chatting etc. the dude was smart he mirrored back what he new she liked. He was that friendly ear she could vent to etc. 

I am with you. I am trying to put it behind me looking at it like she went psycho. 20 year relationship compared to a 1 year fantasy emotional semi physical thing. BUT its the intensity of her feelings that sickens me and knowing she acted like "woman" sexy, makeup, dress etc for this guy and he is a nothing. internally I don't think I can get past it. I fake it. But internally its like a bomb went off. We were best friends, I had complete faith in this person didn't even think of this. Now I have to think if he had been more aggressive and they had done stuff together she would be gone. I mean it would not have worked out but that would of been that. She didn't think of me while my dad is fresh in the ground she is trying to learn about this guy and falling in love. while I am struggling to help my mom who had stage 4 cancer surgery she is out in fantasy land. When I needed my best friend the most she was MIA. Then I have pictures of her looking at me all nasty that year. I can go back and see it in her eyes. YOU can see the separation from what we had. A year before she was talking about how I was the best thing that ever happened to her and one year later she was making me out to be something I wasn't to justify her own actions in her head. Its sickening and if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone.


----------



## darkdays

Yeswecan said:


> This is the crap I can not understand for the life of me. The mindset that all of they could do without a care in the world. They talk all lovey blah blah blah as if the BH simply got over the fact the W was doing all these things with out a care in the world. In their brain it was justified for some stupid reason. Astonishing.
> 
> Darkdays, I really feel for you man. Your upset expressed in your post is tangible. Somehow I do not believe your wife suffered any consequences of much measure.


Your right man. I would bring this chick wildflowers that I would pick for her, chocolates just randomly. SOME how it meant nothing. SHE went demi lovato heartattack for this guy. THATS the hardest part and if she could do it while I was all romantic...now I am a zombie. internally she disgust me. I sit and think with my dad in the ground she did this. no support no nothing for me. When sandy hit I was out filling up her truck waiting in 2 hour lines for gas while she was sitting at home thinking of this guy. The counselor said to divorce her or R. If I R I have to lock box the entire thing and let it go. BUT how do you do that. I sit at work and play those songs over and over. I cme on here and vent. some days I don't even want to come home. Now she is acting all loving. is it "acting" is it genuine??? I feel like if she can do what she did under the circumstances that why not again. She was pursuing another guy just when I needed her the most. that year she was cold, not involved. I don't no im just Numb inside.


----------



## Suspecting2014

darkdays said:


> Cabsy Most of this was her obsession but they were in the flirting stage. This guy was probably thinking if something happens he could lose his job, then there is his own wife etc he wasn't in love he just wanted some hot office ass. THE last month or weeks before it was about to go physical is when she started showing physical interest in her actions with the flirting. I blew it up literally days before it was going to go physical. BUT does that matter. She dressed, put on makeup for him. went shopping to multiple stores for clothes to look sexy etc. She was experimenting going out and eating all different kinds of foods to try and look sophisticated cause he liked gourmet foods etc. she was doing all these special things for a guy that gave he nothing. BUT he did provide a fantasy escape sitting and chatting etc. the dude was smart he mirrored back what he new she liked. He was that friendly ear she could vent to etc.
> 
> I am with you. I am trying to put it behind me looking at it like she went psycho. 20 year relationship compared to a 1 year fantasy emotional semi physical thing. BUT its the intensity of her feelings that sickens me and knowing she acted like "woman" sexy, makeup, dress etc for this guy and he is a nothing. internally I don't think I can get past it. I fake it. But internally its like a bomb went off. We were best friends, I had complete faith in this person didn't even think of this. Now I have to think if he had been more aggressive and they had done stuff together she would be gone. I mean it would not have worked out but that would of been that. She didn't think of me while my dad is fresh in the ground she is trying to learn about this guy and falling in love. while I am struggling to help my mom who had stage 4 cancer surgery she is out in fantasy land. When I needed my best friend the most she was MIA. Then I have pictures of her looking at me all nasty that year. I can go back and see it in her eyes. YOU can see the separation from what we had. A year before she was talking about how I was the best thing that ever happened to her and one year later she was making me out to be something I wasn't to justify her own actions in her head. Its sickening and if it can happen to me it can happen to anyone.


Has she done everything that takes to R? Or you bouth just rug swifted the whole EA? 
If she is acting like not big deal bc it didnt get phisical, you will never heal.

If she is acting not a big deal maybe is trying to hide that they went phisical 
Anyhow she should be doing much more
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sammy3

OP, 

Believe me I too understand what you are going through. I'm 3.5 years out from my hubby affair, and still struggling through dead space. The biggest hurdle for me, I can't get through, once a 3rd person is brought into the marriage, into the couple, between "us," it changes everything that came before. Sorta like you cant un-ring the bell, because it's been rung, all you can do is listen. 

Affairs changes the spouse in profound ways that the ww's never understand. 

-sammy


----------



## murphy5

darkdays said:


> SHE went demi lovato heartattack for this guy. THATS the hardest part and if she could do it while I was all romantic...now I am a zombie. internally she disgust me. .


so I guess this means she never made you those cookies?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Dark your counselor is an idiot, you don't lock box it...you both have to deal with it, and she has to demonstrate what she is prepared to do for you that she would never do for him... and until she does and she accepts her part in this and she shows you the respect and love you deserve she does not get the romantic dinners, the back rubs, the chocolates, the date nights....do not reward bad behavior....in fact you need to break bad with her. and i would put on the line with her trust is re-earned, and if she does not like it there is the door.


----------



## awake1

There's a fair chance if you think more is going on, then more was probably going on. 

I'm in a somewhat similar situation myself. 

The only solution i've found in the mean time is improving myself. Working out, eating right, taking care of #1. But then, you should be doing that anyway.

If you do that, no matter how things turn out you'll be in a better situation.

It's painful when you read all the things they say to each other and the passion the WW/WH feels was never something they had for you. Being plan B sucks. And make no mistake, you like me, are plan B. If this guy had said seriously: "lets run away together" she would probably have dropped everything and went. You were a stepping stone to her finding something better. 

The question is, do you want to be with her? If the answer is yes, then the next question would be: are you forever plan b, or was this situation an outlier and not something likely to happen again? 

Think back long and hard to the relationship over the years. That romantic spark she felt, did she ever have that for you? If the answer is no, if nothing you did ever mattered to her, then there is probably no good reason to think that will ever change.

Were you kept around for convenience or to help pay bills, or was it love?


----------



## thummper

I remember you saying that you "blew it up" just days before it was to go physical. How did you know she was going to do that? Was it something you just felt, or did she somehow telegraph the intent to you? In any case good luck in the future. I think I'd have just ended it with her if it was me, although there's no way to know that until it happens to you.


----------



## Cabsy

I'm also curious how you know so well where things were in their relationship. She's had plenty of time and space to brew some stories and convince even herself of a workable version of the truth. Or maybe she's telling the truth as it actually happened - highly doubtful, but who knows? The truth is a flexible thing to a cheater. 

But hey, I'm just some guy on a forum, what do I know? In my case, I've been told there was no "sex" to this day - I got the Bill Clinton omission/lie, basically, until I asked very specific questions during a candid moment. With the things I know that happened and her mindset at the time, I'm sure posters would vote in the +90% range that it went all the way. 

Does it matter? I'm not sure anymore... and she's not budging from her story. The truth I did manage to come by came only after I asked to separate. Her behavior in the beginning is as you describe your WW, but I was in no mood to tolerate it, and haven't been since. I wish I could also go back in time and un-tolerate her behavior in the years prior to the affair.

I would be careful not to completely disassociate what she did with reality - i.e. she went "psycho" - as it seems to me that this negates a very big and very real truth that both of you need to realize. She made not one choice, but a series of choices: She adopted a new mind-set which did not include you, and which actually caused and would have continued to cause harm to your life. Now maybe she wasn't acting like herself - my ww certainly wasn't - but I've never let her shy away from owning the many things she did wrong. She tried a lot in the beginning, but again, I don't tolerate it.

I completely understand the added sting of being ignored, having her slob around, expecting the world while doing nothing, while you are being faithful and good partner to no avail. Then she comes to life for some other POS guy who isn't 1/2 the man she has right in front of her. I get angry just thinking about it. 

I also understand being close to personal grief/disaster and being abandoned in such a way by your partner, and I'm sorry to hear about your story. I was a better partner than she deserved, but then we were in in accident in which she was driving, and I am still recovering, and I was not/am not the person I was before. She stopped supporting my treatment as I had continuing issues, I stopped putting in the work at home and she hadn't been pulling her weight for years, and she had her affair about a year later. A few years before that, my brother died at 17 to a sudden brain disease which also affected my only other sibling. We named our son after my brother.

I understand being best friends, thinking she was incapable of cheating, and then watching her fall in "love" with some scumbag. Yes, it can happen to anyone. The punch that hurts the most is the one you don't see coming, and it seems that you and I both weren't looking in the direction of this blow. I also feel like I'm just going through the motions sometimes and I am empty, or at least not connected with my reality, as I take care of our son and work towards our future... my mind is 1/2 way out the door. Right there with you. Again, some of this is probably normal, but I think your situation could be improved.


----------



## Thor

awake1 said:


> The question is, do you want to be with her? If the answer is yes, then the next question would be: are you forever plan b, or was this situation an outlier and not something likely to happen again?
> 
> Think back long and hard to the relationship over the years. That romantic spark she felt, did she ever have that for you? If the answer is no, if nothing you did ever mattered to her, then there is probably no good reason to think that will ever change.
> 
> Were you kept around for convenience or to help pay bills, or was it love?


After reading the book "His Needs, Her Needs" I have a slightly different view on this.

For many women, there is a deep emotional need for her man to provide financial stability. Now this is not the same as her loving him at all, but it is still something which brings her great emotional comfort. Without it, she may not be able to be happy in a relationship, and in fact may lose the ability to love the man.

So, financial support does not equal love, but lack of it can kill her love.

Meanwhile, she has other emotional needs and sexual needs. She suddenly believes that this OM is filling these other needs, and in the fog of lust/limerance she things she loves OM and no longer loves hubby.

At some point she realizes that OM isn't what she thought he was, and realizes that hubby is fulfilling some very important emotional needs of hers. It could be financial support, but probably also includes acts of service and gifts. She realizes, perhaps not consciously, that hubby is in fact better at being a partner than OM was. She may realize all she had was a crush on OM, whereas she in fact loves her husband.

None of this excuses the affair. Also, for many women the scenario may not be as stated. She may be settling for Plan B because OM dumped her and hubby provides a comfortable lifestyle for her.

But I think in the case of a successful R the WW comes to see her BH as far better than OM, and she loves and respects her BH.

BH is not always Plan B after the fact.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

It's like you're a boat that's tied off to a dock. The engine's idling and you mash the throttle every so often. If you pull at that rope long enough and it's gonna snap. You'll put the dock to your wake and you're on your way.

OR, you can step out of the boat on to the dock. A dock you've known for 20 years. It's been steady and sturdy until a recent storm.
You're not sure of it's stability anymore.

You either take you chances on the dock, or untie and motor off in to the unknown in the boat.

Right now you're doing neither and contemplating both.

I know what I would do, but I can't say for sure that it would be the best choice. The longer I waited to decide it, the worse I would feel when I finally made the choice.

I would sit her down and tell her this. I'm still having a hard time deciding if we should stay together. I want to draw up the preliminary D papers, lock them away then give this marriage my best shot.

Tell her that if she ever has doubts about being with you, or gets interested in someone else, she needs to tell you and you either D, or try to work it out. Also, that this is the time to tell you about anything she has done in the past and not already informed you of. If she doesn't tell you and you do find out something, you are gone. No ifs ands, or buts about it.

Step out on to the dock, or move on in the boat. You may not know for years to come if you'd made the best choice for yourself. But what you are doing now, not choosing, is going to make the decision for you in due time.


----------



## darkdays

sammy3 said:


> OP,
> 
> Believe me I too understand what you are going through. I'm 3.5 years out from my hubby affair, and still struggling through dead space. The biggest hurdle for me, I can't get through, once a 3rd person is brought into the marriage, into the couple, between "us," it changes everything that came before. Sorta like you cant un-ring the bell, because it's been rung, all you can do is listen.
> 
> Affairs changes the spouse in profound ways that the ww's never understand.
> 
> -sammy


Exactly
I said that to her. I said once you ring the bell you can't unring it. The obsessive nature of the entire thing and her doing special things she never did for this guy is just too over the top for me.


----------



## darkdays

Xenote said:


> Dark your counselor is an idiot, you don't lock box it...you both have to deal with it, and she has to demonstrate what she is prepared to do for you that she would never do for him... and until she does and she accepts her part in this and she shows you the respect and love you deserve she does not get the romantic dinners, the back rubs, the chocolates, the date nights....do not reward bad behavior....in fact you need to break bad with her. and i would put on the line with her trust is re-earned, and if she does not like it there is the door.


yeah that lock box **** didn't work. all it did was let the anger build inside. those two songs and the way she acted did it for me. I don't think I mean **** to her other then a 90k year pay check. She can fake it to my face how would I even know??


----------



## darkdays

awake1 said:


> There's a fair chance if you think more is going on, then more was probably going on.
> 
> I'm in a somewhat similar situation myself.
> 
> The only solution i've found in the mean time is improving myself. Working out, eating right, taking care of #1. But then, you should be doing that anyway.
> 
> If you do that, no matter how things turn out you'll be in a better situation.
> 
> It's painful when you read all the things they say to each other and the passion the WW/WH feels was never something they had for you. Being plan B sucks. And make no mistake, you like me, are plan B. If this guy had said seriously: "lets run away together" she would probably have dropped everything and went. You were a stepping stone to her finding something better.
> 
> The question is, do you want to be with her? If the answer is yes, then the next question would be: are you forever plan b, or was this situation an outlier and not something likely to happen again?
> 
> Think back long and hard to the relationship over the years. That romantic spark she felt, did she ever have that for you? If the answer is no, if nothing you did ever mattered to her, then there is probably no good reason to think that will ever change.
> 
> Were you kept around for convenience or to help pay bills, or was it love?


Bro all questions I obsess on. I don't want to be the farmer in bridges of ******* county if you ever seen that movie. the guy she loves but not the guy her soul burns for. I think that's my major issue. I feel like plan B.


----------



## darkdays

Cabsy said:


> I'm also curious how you know so well where things were in their relationship. She's had plenty of time and space to brew some stories and convince even herself of a workable version of the truth. Or maybe she's telling the truth as it actually happened - highly doubtful, but who knows? The truth is a flexible thing to a cheater.
> 
> But hey, I'm just some guy on a forum, what do I know? In my case, I've been told there was no "sex" to this day - I got the Bill Clinton omission/lie, basically, until I asked very specific questions during a candid moment. With the things I know that happened and her mindset at the time, I'm sure posters would vote in the +90% range that it went all the way.
> 
> Does it matter? I'm not sure anymore... and she's not budging from her story. The truth I did manage to come by came only after I asked to separate. Her behavior in the beginning is as you describe your WW, but I was in no mood to tolerate it, and haven't been since. I wish I could also go back in time and un-tolerate her behavior in the years prior to the affair.
> 
> I would be careful not to completely disassociate what she did with reality - i.e. she went "psycho" - as it seems to me that this negates a very big and very real truth that both of you need to realize. She made not one choice, but a series of choices: She adopted a new mind-set which did not include you, and which actually caused and would have continued to cause harm to your life. Now maybe she wasn't acting like herself - my ww certainly wasn't - but I've never let her shy away from owning the many things she did wrong. She tried a lot in the beginning, but again, I don't tolerate it.
> 
> I completely understand the added sting of being ignored, having her slob around, expecting the world while doing nothing, while you are being faithful and good partner to no avail. Then she comes to life for some other POS guy who isn't 1/2 the man she has right in front of her. I get angry just thinking about it.
> 
> I also understand being close to personal grief/disaster and being abandoned in such a way by your partner, and I'm sorry to hear about your story. I was a better partner than she deserved, but then we were in in accident in which she was driving, and I am still recovering, and I was not/am not the person I was before. She stopped supporting my treatment as I had continuing issues, I stopped putting in the work at home and she hadn't been pulling her weight for years, and she had her affair about a year later. A few years before that, my brother died at 17 to a sudden brain disease which also affected my only other sibling. We named our son after my brother.
> 
> I understand being best friends, thinking she was incapable of cheating, and then watching her fall in "love" with some scumbag. Yes, it can happen to anyone. The punch that hurts the most is the one you don't see coming, and it seems that you and I both weren't looking in the direction of this blow. I also feel like I'm just going through the motions sometimes and I am empty, or at least not connected with my reality, as I take care of our son and work towards our future... my mind is 1/2 way out the door. Right there with you. Again, some of this is probably normal, but I think your situation could be improved.


Cabsy thanks man and I feel for you. I think about all the army wives who husbands are not even around and they can stay faithful, or truckers wives people who are not around and the wife doesn't do this. Im right here and giving the emotional and the physical and she just goes for some POS married loser. with this wigged out way. Looks like your wife decided to strike while you were down. I guess we will not know true devotion and love.


----------



## Cabsy

darkdays said:


> Cabsy thanks man and I feel for you. I think about all the army wives who husbands are not even around and they can stay faithful, or truckers wives people who are not around and the wife doesn't do this. Im right here and giving the emotional and the physical and she just goes for some POS married loser. with this wigged out way. Looks like your wife decided to strike while you were down. I guess we will not know true devotion and love.


She's devoted and loving now... feels great, or would, except being unable to enjoy how well things are going now actually makes it all seem crappy. Cheating tinges everything. Our situations sound kind of similar which is why I shared part of my story. We each have our own problems, but we are not alone in how we feel.

For me, it's hard to forget the many years my needs went unmet while she put little/no work into the relationship. Like your WW... she slummed around the house, she also barely looked up from her phone, and she went to bed early. She came alive for the married POSOM. 

That she cheated during one of the few times that I needed to (but couldn't) lean on her adds to the sting. At 1.5 years out from my join date, I wonder every day if this will go away, get better, or if I'm just throwing good time after bad.

For you, I think that the trickle-truth and uncertainty (something with which I also struggled) are still plaguing you. The wound is fresh again, and it can't close and heal until you can flesh through what all of this means to you. I think your WW could be more supportive as well, and this is key, because if she can't understand and accept the feelings you seem to be having, then your resentment will only grow. 

I'm following a few threads, so I forget if she's done IC, but this could be very helpful if she finds a good counselor. Has your WW read any books? Is she still avoidant of discussions about what happened or does she own it? Is she more about helping you heal or diverting attention away from uncomfortable discussions? 

In other words... is she focused on you and what you need to heal, or is she still focused on keeping herself happy and comfortable? If it's the latter... do you tolerate it, and if so, why, given that you're obviously not content?


----------



## darkdays

sammy3 said:


> OP,
> 
> Believe me I too understand what you are going through. I'm 3.5 years out from my hubby affair, and still struggling through dead space. The biggest hurdle for me, I can't get through, once a 3rd person is brought into the marriage, into the couple, between "us," it changes everything that came before. Sorta like you cant un-ring the bell, because it's been rung, all you can do is listen.
> 
> Affairs changes the spouse in profound ways that the ww's never understand.
> 
> -sammy


you are correct. all the experiences, all the special moments, all the things you have to overcome in life good and bad. 20 years worth together like a team and bang. a stranger comes into the mix and the way it was done. a married, fat , bald loser who she is all fawning over. HIS lack of manhood is the only thing that saved it from not going PA if it didn't. she certainly didn't seem to be stopping anything. SOOO what was all those moments 20 years ago for????


----------



## farsidejunky

You've been gone a few months, brother. Evidently things are not any better than they were before.


----------



## darkdays

Cabsy said:


> I still have a hard time buying that they never did anything physical. If that's all he wanted, and she wanted him, and she's blasting "Come and Get It" on her headphones all day... either he never came and got the only thing he wanted from her, or she never gave up what she seemed so willing to give to him. If she was that into him, why did it never progress? Can she answer such questions in a real way?
> 
> As an observer, her answers seem shallow and unsatisfying. It can't be that complicated. Either she knows the real answers and doesn't want to lose you or hurt or own situation, or she is hiding from the truth herself, because it's painful being wrong and dissecting your own mistakes. If she hasn't noodled around in her own brain to find what caused her behavior, then as Groundpounder said, how can you have any confidence this won't happen again?
> 
> I sympathize with a lot of what you're feeling. I've wanted to leave, but then I think of shared custody, visitation, and child support... the childhood I knew. I've wanted to stay, and tell her that I'm in R 100%, but then the next day I'm down in the dumps wondering how she could behave the way she did... if I can ever get over it while still with her, or if she could ever do it again. I imagine these feelings are somewhat normal. It's up to us, based on our own feelings and assessment of our situations, to decide if we want to leave or stay.
> 
> It's clear you are torn, and again, I understand that feeling well. I hope you find more peace in your life.


look at it from a realistic stand point. their interaction is only in the office so your not going to go up to your boss and say lets go f. a relationship pf trust has to be built up no matter what your feeling. they were flirting but he did not no the extent of her bullcrap and he was her married boss so to make a move and be wrong would of cost her the job plus I would find out. IIIII broke it up days before it was going to go PA as my scumbag wife was going to ask him to lunch and initiate something at least that was the mental plan. This guy wore feetie pajamas, never had a fight in his life, he was not a alpha male. 1 and half out and I don't feel any better about any of it. It just sucks. she wrecked what I thought we had and that can never come back.


----------



## darkdays

Yeswecan said:


> This is the crap I can not understand for the life of me. The mindset that all of they could do without a care in the world. They talk all lovey blah blah blah as if the BH simply got over the fact the W was doing all these things with out a care in the world. In their brain it was justified for some stupid reason. Astonishing.
> 
> Darkdays, I really feel for you man. Your upset expressed in your post is tangible. Somehow I do not believe your wife suffered any consequences of much measure.


she probably only cares that she got caught. I am sure she wouldn't want to lose her paycheck aka me.


----------



## darkdays

farsidejunky said:


> You've been gone a few months, brother. Evidently things are not any better than they were before.


nope not really I just try and not bring things up anymore. I never ever ever thought I would be here. IF I didn't blow this thing up it would be PA not that it makes it any worse since she was a dog in heat over this fing loser. I recall Christmas eve. the kids were sleeping upstairs, lights were dim and we were sitting on the sofa watching its a wonderful life on DVD. I recall thinking to myself how fing lucky I was. 3 years later my dad is dead and my wife was obsessed with her married boss. No zu zu pettles for me. It all seems fake now, the past the present, the future.


----------



## farsidejunky

What are you going to do brother? Limbo is killing you.


----------



## RV9

OP, guess who's your best friend? You. It hurts so much because we BS s become so emotionally dependent on our WS s that after betrayal it feels like a part of us betrayed us. You are all you got. Your WW is just an afterthought.


----------



## darkdays

awake1 said:


> There's a fair chance if you think more is going on, then more was probably going on.
> 
> I'm in a somewhat similar situation myself.
> 
> The only solution i've found in the mean time is improving myself. Working out, eating right, taking care of #1. But then, you should be doing that anyway.
> 
> If you do that, no matter how things turn out you'll be in a better situation.
> 
> It's painful when you read all the things they say to each other and the passion the WW/WH feels was never something they had for you. Being plan B sucks. And make no mistake, you like me, are plan B. If this guy had said seriously: "lets run away together" she would probably have dropped everything and went. You were a stepping stone to her finding something better.
> 
> The question is, do you want to be with her? If the answer is yes, then the next question would be: are you forever plan b, or was this situation an outlier and not something likely to happen again?
> 
> Think back long and hard to the relationship over the years. That romantic spark she felt, did she ever have that for you? If the answer is no, if nothing you did ever mattered to her, then there is probably no good reason to think that will ever change.
> 
> Were you kept around for convenience or to help pay bills, or was it love?


you nailed it man. All things I question daily. going back picking the bones of our relationship. Was it real??? your right. I feel if this dude said lets both leave our spouses and move to indie or wherever I think she would of been swept up and done it. That makes me plan B doesn't it???


----------



## darkdays

thummper said:


> I remember you saying that you "blew it up" just days before it was to go physical. How did you know she was going to do that? Was it something you just felt, or did she somehow telegraph the intent to you? In any case good luck in the future. I think I'd have just ended it with her if it was me, although there's no way to know that until it happens to you.


thumper. at one time I had done private investigations concerning cheaters. I new signs to look for. I was seeing a lot of those signs. I confronted her and she started breaking down and blabbing and in that time period she told me her basic plan was to do stuff with him so that he would fall in love with her. In her so called remorse she thanked me for stopping it in retrospect before she made the biggest mistake of her life. SHE already did but she was talking about doing stuff with him. I basically investigated her and confronted her and questioned her in a way to nail her down. She had finally gotten up the courage of making her move the week things blew up. I didn't find out about the office lollipop games and all this sick **** until this year over a year later.


----------



## Observer

I could not live like you are, I am sorry, I'm sure it's emotionally draining. You got two choices bro, accept what happened and let it go, or end it. Sounds like you are incapable of accepting so that only leaves the other choice. Staus quo is not a choice, it's killing you. 

Consider this though, she did what she did as I'm sure to her she was bored and this was exciting. Maybe she learned a lesson and really hates that she did it? Do you trust her now? If not, go man, go now. If you do, then go to marriage counseling and get this all out in the open. You have to talk through it.


----------



## darkdays

Cabsy said:


> I'm also curious how you know so well where things were in their relationship. She's had plenty of time and space to brew some stories and convince even herself of a workable version of the truth. Or maybe she's telling the truth as it actually happened - highly doubtful, but who knows? The truth is a flexible thing to a cheater.
> 
> But hey, I'm just some guy on a forum, what do I know? In my case, I've been told there was no "sex" to this day - I got the Bill Clinton omission/lie, basically, until I asked very specific questions during a candid moment. With the things I know that happened and her mindset at the time, I'm sure posters would vote in the +90% range that it went all the way.
> 
> Does it matter? I'm not sure anymore... and she's not budging from her story. The truth I did manage to come by came only after I asked to separate. Her behavior in the beginning is as you describe your WW, but I was in no mood to tolerate it, and haven't been since. I wish I could also go back in time and un-tolerate her behavior in the years prior to the affair.
> 
> I would be careful not to completely disassociate what she did with reality - i.e. she went "psycho" - as it seems to me that this negates a very big and very real truth that both of you need to realize. She made not one choice, but a series of choices: She adopted a new mind-set which did not include you, and which actually caused and would have continued to cause harm to your life. Now maybe she wasn't acting like herself - my ww certainly wasn't - but I've never let her shy away from owning the many things she did wrong. She tried a lot in the beginning, but again, I don't tolerate it.
> 
> I completely understand the added sting of being ignored, having her slob around, expecting the world while doing nothing, while you are being faithful and good partner to no avail. Then she comes to life for some other POS guy who isn't 1/2 the man she has right in front of her. I get angry just thinking about it.
> 
> I also understand being close to personal grief/disaster and being abandoned in such a way by your partner, and I'm sorry to hear about your story. I was a better partner than she deserved, but then we were in in accident in which she was driving, and I am still recovering, and I was not/am not the person I was before. She stopped supporting my treatment as I had continuing issues, I stopped putting in the work at home and she hadn't been pulling her weight for years, and she had her affair about a year later. A few years before that, my brother died at 17 to a sudden brain disease which also affected my only other sibling. We named our son after my brother.
> 
> I understand being best friends, thinking she was incapable of cheating, and then watching her fall in "love" with some scumbag. Yes, it can happen to anyone. The punch that hurts the most is the one you don't see coming, and it seems that you and I both weren't looking in the direction of this blow. I also feel like I'm just going through the motions sometimes and I am empty, or at least not connected with my reality, as I take care of our son and work towards our future... my mind is 1/2 way out the door. Right there with you. Again, some of this is probably normal, but I think your situation could be improved.


cabsy you are correct I feel like that as well. sorry man about your brother. Its an added sting when your dead love on just hit the ground and your partner for years is drooling over a loser. LOL writing it seems comical if it were not true. I am a moron for even staying but my mind is still numb, I just am on auto pilot going through life. work, home, sleep, work. I don't feel much like hanging with anyone anymore.


----------



## darkdays

Thor said:


> After reading the book "His Needs, Her Needs" I have a slightly different view on this.
> 
> For many women, there is a deep emotional need for her man to provide financial stability. Now this is not the same as her loving him at all, but it is still something which brings her great emotional comfort. Without it, she may not be able to be happy in a relationship, and in fact may lose the ability to love the man.
> 
> So, financial support does not equal love, but lack of it can kill her love.
> 
> Meanwhile, she has other emotional needs and sexual needs. She suddenly believes that this OM is filling these other needs, and in the fog of lust/limerance she things she loves OM and no longer loves hubby.
> 
> At some point she realizes that OM isn't what she thought he was, and realizes that hubby is fulfilling some very important emotional needs of hers. It could be financial support, but probably also includes acts of service and gifts. She realizes, perhaps not consciously, that hubby is in fact better at being a partner than OM was. She may realize all she had was a crush on OM, whereas she in fact loves her husband.
> 
> None of this excuses the affair. Also, for many women the scenario may not be as stated. She may be settling for Plan B because OM dumped her and hubby provides a comfortable lifestyle for her.
> 
> But I think in the case of a successful R the WW comes to see her BH as far better than OM, and she loves and respects her BH.
> 
> BH is not always Plan B after the fact.


I think by the way she acted toward this guy it was not a crush, it was some kind of sick version of love. I am with the other poster in my heart I think if this guy said move away with me she would of dropped everything. She gets caught all of a sudden I am sweet as apple pie. SURE she has nothing to go back to but what she knows security for the last 20 years. BUT will her heart and mind really be mine or does her thought wander about what if?? my dilemma.


----------



## darkdays

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> It's like you're a boat that's tied off to a dock. The engine's idling and you mash the throttle every so often. If you pull at that rope long enough and it's gonna snap. You'll put the dock to your wake and you're on your way.
> 
> OR, you can step out of the boat on to the dock. A dock you've known for 20 years. It's been steady and sturdy until a recent storm.
> You're not sure of it's stability anymore.
> 
> You either take you chances on the dock, or untie and motor off in to the unknown in the boat.
> 
> Right now you're doing neither and contemplating both.
> 
> I know what I would do, but I can't say for sure that it would be the best choice. The longer I waited to decide it, the worse I would feel when I finally made the choice.
> 
> I would sit her down and tell her this. I'm still having a hard time deciding if we should stay together. I want to draw up the preliminary D papers, lock them away then give this marriage my best shot.
> 
> Tell her that if she ever has doubts about being with you, or gets interested in someone else, she needs to tell you and you either D, or try to work it out. Also, that this is the time to tell you about anything she has done in the past and not already informed you of. If she doesn't tell you and you do find out something, you are gone. No ifs ands, or buts about it.
> 
> Step out on to the dock, or move on in the boat. You may not know for years to come if you'd made the best choice for yourself. But what you are doing now, not choosing, is going to make the decision for you in due time.


she is a liar bro I don't trust a thing she says anymore. a year and half later and I am hearing about sucking lollipops in the boss office to turn him on. she made it like she was handing in a project but when guys see that they get turned on. she was apparently working the lollipop good. ****ing POS. while I am out working my ass off for her this is what she is doing.


----------



## darkdays

farsidejunky said:


> What are you going to do brother? Limbo is killing you.


No clue what I am doing I am just working and going home and going through the motions.


----------



## darkdays

Observer said:


> I could not live like you are, I am sorry, I'm sure it's emotionally draining. You got two choices bro, accept what happened and let it go, or end it. Sounds like you are incapable of accepting so that only leaves the other choice. Staus quo is not a choice, it's killing you.
> 
> Consider this though, she did what she did as I'm sure to her she was bored and this was exciting. Maybe she learned a lesson and really hates that she did it? Do you trust her now? If not, go man, go now. If you do, then go to marriage counseling and get this all out in the open. You have to talk through it.


OK so I divorce her. Now she goes out and lives it up with some other scumbag and exposes my kids to whoever she pics with her great judgment. My kids now have to deal with being shuttled back and forth and all the BS, alimony payments, child support etc. I will be working to support her and her new eventual boyfriend.


----------



## imjustwatching

You still think it was just a EA really ??
Ask her to take a polygraph


----------



## darkdays

SO in years past we walked down forest lanes hand in hand. laughed together, hiked together, went on adventures together, built a family together. Christmas eve was sitting together in the dim light watching its a wonderful life. kids sleeping upstairs. presents under the tree. our dog curled up on our lap. It was a feeling of perfection to me. "family first". building my kids doll house in the basement and my "wife" giving me a cup of hot chocolate and watching on the stairs. a watch with the inscription "my heart is yours forever." ALL gone. a faded memory as I took the watch and dumped it on the floor the other day. She colored the past, she colored my present and she colored my future. I may stay in this thing but my soul is gone. I don't believe in magic anymore, I put away my romantic thoughts of life served up by my best friend and her actions over the death of my dad. This Christmas eve I will get no phone call from dad and if I sit and watch its a wonderful life it will make me think of the life she wanted with this other guy. I look at my kids smiling faces and her trying to R and inside I know its a lie. I used to buy gifts for her out of love and now I buy them because that's what you do. I can't hand her a card because I don't feel what it says anymore. I thought we were special and now I realize I am just another hairless ape like everyone else. I write here to just get it out and know that someone is listening and gets it. Thanks for all your advice and listening.


----------



## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: ONE year later and I am more depressed*



darkdays said:


> No clue what I am doing I am just working and going home and going through the motions.


Okay, so you are hitting your hand with a hammer, deliberately, every day, complaining about how much it hurts. Yet, your intention is to continue hitting your hand with a hammer.

Tough love, brother. Get your @$$ out of the victim chair, stop feeling sorry for yourself, make a decision to stay and make it the best it can be or move on, and then execute it.

Otherwise, we will see you here in six more months with the exact complaint.

$hit or get off the pot, brother.


----------



## tom67

Dark don't get her any specific presents just give her a gift card.
It will send a message.
Go to a gym a few nights a week if you can.
She still works right so go see a lawyer so you have an idea of what you might be paying.
See if you can feed the homeless one evening get out of yourself a little.
What she did was terrible but start fixing you one day at a time.


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> Okay, so you are hitting your hand with a hammer, deliberately, every day, complaining about how much it hurts. Yet, your intention is to continue hitting your hand with a hammer.
> 
> Tough love, brother. Get your @$$ out of the victim chair, stop feeling sorry for yourself, make a decision to stay and make it the best it can be or move on, and then execute it.
> 
> Otherwise, we will see you here in six more months with the exact complaint.
> 
> $hit or get off the pot, brother.


I think I said the same thing great minds think alike


----------



## Ripper

I don't agree with staying, but if you are determined too, why even go through the motions with her? Focus on the kids, but she shouldn't be getting any gifts, cards, hugs or even acknowledgement from you. 

If this is path you are choosing, make it a business arraignment to raise the children. Separate the finances, she doesn't get a dime unless you verify it is going to a household expense, i.e. food/utilities, not her clothes or entertainment. Start working on an exit strategy, don't be caught flat footed when she attempts this again. Do your own homework on your local divorce laws and consult with an attorney.

Don't just lay there passive while this conniving deceitful b*tch uses you as an ATM, all the while plotting on how she is going to get back on the cvck carousel.


----------



## SofaKingWeToddId

Hey Darkdays,

I can relate to what you are going through. Limbo is hell. I wasted over 3 years of my life in limbo. The only person that can get you out, is you. You need to take action. 

My situation was a little different. I never had proof my wife cheated. I had lots of red flags and strange behavior, but no proof. I became obsessed with her suspected affair. I became a zombie and was depressed. I missed out on 3 years that I will never get back. 

I new what I had to do to feel better, but it was really hard. I finally decided I had had enough and asked her to take a polygraph. She admitted to some minor cheating prior to marriage, but her story never changed on whether or not she cheated while we were married.

She took the test and passed. I didn't feel immediate relief, but I do feel a lot better about it now. I know my wife and I have a lot of work to make our marriage better, but that was the first step.

You need to take the first step. Do something. Have her take a polygraph, divorce her, find a great MC... Just do something!

Limbo is hell.


----------



## carmen ohio

darkdays said:


> you nailed it man. All things I question daily. going back picking the bones of our relationship. Was it real??? your right. I feel if this dude said lets both leave our spouses and move to indie or wherever I think she would of been swept up and done it. *That makes me plan B doesn't it???*


darkdays,

At this point in time, the only thing that's making you plan B is you.

You need help. With an attitude like yours, your going to cut 20 or 30 years off your life. You keep saying your doing this for your kids. Do your kids a real favor and get help for yourself so that you're around to see them grow up.

OK, you got shafted. But your life is still better than billions people who literally don't know how they are going to survive another year. So stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Sorry to dump on you, man, but you need to be jump started into getting a new life.


----------



## Acoa

Take a step back and breathe. You can be a better life for you and your kids. Get custody. Yes, they will have to go visit mom, but they adapt. 

Better to have a stable home and go visit mom than to live in a house with zombie dad and absentee mom. 

I didn't think in a million years my ex would have not fought tooth and nail for custody. But when I proposed it along with a fair separation agreement on finances, she jumped on it. 

Yeah, it was expensive, but it was worth every penny. The kids and I enjoy a nice relaxing home. They feel safe and secure. Their visits with mom are twice a week for dinner. She keeps any live interests out of the picture.

Life is good,


----------



## sammy3

Happilymarried25 said:


> You have two choices, forgive her, don't talk about the affair and stay in the marriage or if you can't do that then divorce. Bringing up the subject and staying in the marriage will not heal the marriage.




This is reality !!! I've been been trying to figure out another way for almost 4 years now... guess what? Nothing has worked... 

~sammy


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## RV9

Limbo is hell. Whatever decision you make, you may regret later on. But not making a decision would always make you regret every moment forever. Take it from someone who has been in limbo for almost 3 years.


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## G.J.

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> Hey Darkdays,
> 
> I can relate to what you are going through. Limbo is hell. I wasted over 3 years of my life in limbo. The only person that can get you out, is you. You need to take action.
> 
> My situation was a little different. I never had proof my wife cheated. I had lots of red flags and strange behavior, but no proof. I became obsessed with her suspected affair. I became a zombie and was depressed. I missed out on 3 years that I will never get back.
> 
> I new what I had to do to feel better, but it was really hard. I finally decided I had had enough and asked her to take a polygraph. She admitted to some minor cheating prior to marriage, but her story never changed on whether or not she cheated while we were married.
> 
> She took the test and passed. I didn't feel immediate relief, but I do feel a lot better about it now. I know my wife and I have a lot of work to make our marriage better, but that was the first step.
> 
> You need to take the first step. Do something. *Have her take a polygraph,* divorce her, find a great MC... Just do something!
> 
> Limbo is hell.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Armed with that knowledge you can then start to heal


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## Juicer

I can match what you're feeling.
A year out after Dday, and I was more miserable than I was on Dday. 

I am going to suggest you divorce. 
All I see in your posts are memories. And bitterness. Resentment. And anger. I will warn you now, if you can't let go of some of these emotions, they will consume you. 
But I fail to see anything that implies you still have warm feelings for her. Or even romantic feelings. 
And if you don't think your kids can notice the apparent lack of love in the marriage, you'd be wrong. Kids are smarter than people give them credit for. They more than likely know something is very wrong. 

What I don't see is love. 
Reconciliation can't be done with just a very remorseful WS. It needs a BS that can, in time forgive, but that also still has some form of love for their WS. 
I am not seeing that in your post. I don't know if you have replaced it with another emotion, or if she simply ripped it all out. 

You aren't reconciling because you want to. You're not even reconciling. Not really. You're just living with her because you think it is what you are supposed to do. And you're miserable because of it.


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## darkdays

Juicer said:


> I can match what you're feeling.
> A year out after Dday, and I was more miserable than I was on Dday.
> 
> I am going to suggest you divorce.
> All I see in your posts are memories. And bitterness. Resentment. And anger. I will warn you now, if you can't let go of some of these emotions, they will consume you.
> But I fail to see anything that implies you still have warm feelings for her. Or even romantic feelings.
> And if you don't think your kids can notice the apparent lack of love in the marriage, you'd be wrong. Kids are smarter than people give them credit for. They more than likely know something is very wrong.
> 
> What I don't see is love.
> Reconciliation can't be done with just a very remorseful WS. It needs a BS that can, in time forgive, but that also still has some form of love for their WS.
> I am not seeing that in your post. I don't know if you have replaced it with another emotion, or if she simply ripped it all out.
> 
> You aren't reconciling because you want to. You're not even reconciling. Not really. You're just living with her because you think it is what you are supposed to do. And you're miserable because of it.


You are correct I am doing what I think I am supposed to. also the post saying I am *****ing I guess your right as well. reality is a *****.


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## ConanHub

Juicer said:


> I can match what you're feeling.
> A year out after Dday, and I was more miserable than I was on Dday.
> 
> I am going to suggest you divorce.
> All I see in your posts are memories. And bitterness. Resentment. And anger. I will warn you now, if you can't let go of some of these emotions, they will consume you.
> But I fail to see anything that implies you still have warm feelings for her. Or even romantic feelings.
> And if you don't think your kids can notice the apparent lack of love in the marriage, you'd be wrong. Kids are smarter than people give them credit for. They more than likely know something is very wrong.
> 
> What I don't see is love.
> Reconciliation can't be done with just a very remorseful WS. It needs a BS that can, in time forgive, but that also still has some form of love for their WS.
> I am not seeing that in your post. I don't know if you have replaced it with another emotion, or if she simply ripped it all out.
> 
> You aren't reconciling because you want to. You're not even reconciling. Not really. You're just living with her because you think it is what you are supposed to do. And you're miserable because of it.


Great post Juicer!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roselyn

In your heart you know that she was ready to throw you away and your children. A woman will walk away from her husband and children when her relationship has become emotional and physical. At some point, she believed that the other man would leave his wife for her. He rejected her and she fell back to you. You realized that her cuddling and lovey-dovey overtures are actions to hook you back up to her.

You are resentful of your wife as you know that it is a matter of time when she will latched on to another Joe. You'll be in the same position as you were a year ago. You can live this way in limbo or divorce her. Your choice.


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## G.J.

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> Hey Darkdays,
> 
> I can relate to what you are going through. Limbo is hell. I wasted over 3 years of my life in limbo. The only person that can get you out, is you. You need to take action.
> 
> My situation was a little different. I never had proof my wife cheated. I had lots of red flags and strange behavior, but no proof. I became obsessed with her suspected affair. I became a zombie and was depressed. I missed out on 3 years that I will never get back.
> 
> I new what I had to do to feel better, but it was really hard. *I finally decided I had had enough and asked her to take a polygraph.* She admitted to some minor cheating prior to marriage, but her story never changed on whether or not she cheated while we were married.
> 
> She took the test and passed. I didn't feel immediate relief, but I do feel a lot better about it now. I know my wife and I have a lot of work to make our marriage better, but that was the first step.
> 
> You need to take the first step. Do something. Have her take a polygraph, divorce her, find a great MC... Just do something!
> 
> Limbo is hell.


Get her to take a polygraph
If you now want any type of chance of starting to heal do this or get D


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