# Who do you blame most for affair - your spouse or AP?



## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

I just had an interesting discussion with an old friend when talking about my STBXWs affair - he kept saying I should straighten out the other guy but I totally blame my spouse for her actions because SHE knew she was married she knew what she was doing, she never wore her ring at work, she had control of all the information...but my friend insisted that the other man knew what he was doing and knew she was married but pursued it anyway ---- i dont know - i dont care about him and what he did just about what my STBXW did........thoughts?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> I just had an interesting discussion with an old friend when talking about my STBXWs affair - he kept saying I should straighten out the other guy but I totally blame my spouse for her actions because SHE knew she was married she knew what she was doing, she never wore her ring at work, she had control of all the information...but my friend insisted that the other man knew what he was doing and knew she was married but pursued it anyway ---- i dont know - i dont care about him and what he did just about what my STBXW did........thoughts?


Considering my failed marriage, I think of things that I could have done differently / better. At the same time, I don't particularly care for the smirky little manoeuvres that my (ex) husband did with certain women whether friends of mine or friends of his or the wives of his friends. When I look back at it, I think maybe he actually liked the drama that his actions / inactions were creating. 

I do think of these things when I am making decisions about the relationship that I am in today.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Definitely my spouse. He had a choice.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't understand why a man would pursue another man's wife knowing how much it will hurt.

Having said that; yuo are married to your wife, it is the two of you who have an agreement about how to live your lives and how to have a healthy and a relationship based on respect.

So I have no doubts that you are better off by having the discussions with your wife and not with the OM.


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## Sweet Tea (May 4, 2012)

Without a doubt my husband. My husband was the one that put himself in that situation. My husband was the one that tore down the boundaries. My husband was the one that did not say no. My husband was the one that lied to me. My husband was the one that broke his vows.

The OW means absolutely nothing to me. Nor will she get the satisfaction of having any power over me. She is not the one that brought me to my knees, my husband was.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

No doubt the OM/OW shares some of the blame. But your own WS shares most of it. Who is the one who said their vows to you in front of friends, family, and God? If someone is making advances toward you, flirting with you, you say NO. No means No means No. It doesn't matter if your spouse set out to have an affair or not, or if the OM/OW pursued them. They could have refused their advances at any time, in many cases, a BS has had as many opportunities to cheat as the WS.


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## LeighRichwood (Mar 31, 2012)

As for where the blame for the whole affair lies - it lies equally with both parties because both of them knew that he was married and that it was wrong.

As for where the blame for the lying to me and the damage to my marriage - it lies 100% with my husband. He is the one who cheated on me - the OW never made a vow to me that she wouldn't hurt me. I despise her still, but my husband was the one who broke my trust.

After all these years, my marriage is good and happy. I'm no longer angry at him about the affair but I still hate her. Funny how this dynamic works inside my brain. I blame him, not her. I hate her, not him.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm not marrried to the AP. They don't owe me loyalty or honesty. If your boat had a leak, you could try to drain the lake to fix your problem but it'd probably be smarter to fix the hole. If your wife has the mind to run around, does it really matter which guy she picks? If you ran him off, there'd be another right behind him.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> I just had an interesting discussion with an old friend when talking about my STBXWs affair - he kept saying I should straighten out the other guy but I totally blame my spouse for her actions because SHE knew she was married she knew what she was doing, she never wore her ring at work, she had control of all the information...but my friend insisted that the other man knew what he was doing and knew she was married but pursued it anyway ---- i dont know - i dont care about him and what he did just about what my STBXW did........thoughts?


I am angry at my husband and I never contacted the OW, the same anonymous person who outed my husband outed her. 

Still, Having read the emails, she was definitely the aggressor. She was looking for supplemental relationship or so she told my husband, but later it was obvious to even a blind man that she was looking to replace her husband. 

In addition, she was looking for a married man. I think few decent looking financially fit single men would even bother to give a second look to a married woman with four kids. There are plenty of single women out there. 

My cheater husband, however, did not want to leave me, he too wanted a supplemental sexual relationship and believe the OW's manipulative claim that she too was only interested in a fun sexual extracurricular relationship.

Also, she was a serial cheater and stalked the last guy she had an affair with after he, too, dumped her. 

My cheater husband's OW is stalking me now. 

She stalked me prior to actually starting the affair with my husband, too. Only at that time I did not know I was being stalked. I just thought she was being friendly.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

Myself.
I did it all on my own.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

While I do hold my husband accountable for his actions, it's a tough call who I blame more... him, the OW, or myself. I blame myself for my own actions in my own EAs. I blame the OW for chasing after him, knowing full well he is married. This, while acting like she was my friend. My problem is this... do you hold your spouse completely accountable if there is mental illness involved? I mean, obviously, on some level, he knows that getting involved with another woman is wrong, whether PA or EA (his was also EA). But do I hold HIM fully accountable? Are his mental problems just an excuse? And, yes, she knew all of that as well. At the very least, I believe his mental issues made him more susceptible to her machinations.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If someone is too mentally unstable to uphold their minimum marital obligations, you would no longer have a traditional marriage. Your relationship would have transitioned into a patient/caregiver situation.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I see it as at least fifty fifty. Like two people committing a crime. The OM/OW is like a thief on an inside job. They deserve just as much crap as I can heap on them too. The dif is that I would pile everything I could on AP. Payback is a *****.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

I don't think the AP is to blame as much as the WS. After all the WS is married and if he/she doesn't care about his/her marriage then who will have to care more? You think the AP will care more? 
No. I don't think so. 
Also, if the AP had some integrity they wouldn't involve in an affair with the married person in the first place. 

But imo the WS takes 90% of the responsibility. The rest is for the AP and the latter is not the first to be blamed.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

My wife definitely. I actually have very little hatred for the OM. She pursued him, took advantage of his bad marriage, and spent her own money to fly to another state to see him, footing the bill for all the expenses.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> My wife definitely. I actually have very little hatred for the OM. She pursued him, took advantage of his bad marriage, and spent her own money to fly to another state to see him, footing the bill for all the expenses.


:iagree:

Same here. My WW did most of the pursuing, and it looks like he just responded. She even joked with him in one of her messages, telling him he moves too slow.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Great question...some of the answers on here have helped me. I do find myself harboring immense anger at the OW..and H as well.

I realize from those comments though that, as others have stated the OW did not break her vows to me..if he hadn't encouraged her as well and right from the start said no thanks I am not interested then that would have been the end of it..instead he led her to believe that he was interested in her and that he was separated. I think I am giving his OW way too much head space right now and I think I am going to have to let that go.

H is 100% to blame..not saying that I was the prefect wife in the marriage because I wasn't however he chose his actions. Regardless I do not deserve the pain that he has inflicted on me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My hubby didn't have an 'affair partner' so it was all on him.

If he had and she knew he was married, then they'd both be to blame. whether it would be 50-50, I can't say.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Let's face it. The WS showed they were open to an affair because they couldn't say a simple sentence: *Please do not contact me or talk to me because I'm married and I love my wife/husband*.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I blame my husband. He was her boss when the affair started (I discovered it after they had left their old jobs). She was 10 years younger.

But, she had plenty of issues herself. Married a man for his money and status (although he loved her). Hit on the married young father colleague at the job before she got together with my husband.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Wife.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Infidelity starts with the man or the woman in the mirror! After all, they had a most valid choice in either stopping it, entertaining it, and advancing it to the point of no return! To blame someone else is merely a "cop-out!"

In a nutshell, I say my STBXW because of her questionable clandestine activities. If you asked her, she'd richly say it was me because she felt that I wasn't the same guy she had married~ hence "irreconcilable differences; at least that's what it says on her petition for divorce!"


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## LeighRichwood (Mar 31, 2012)

highwood said:


> I think I am giving his OW way too much head space right now and I think I am going to have to let that go.
> 
> H is 100% to blame..not saying that I was the prefect wife in the marriage because I wasn't however he chose his actions. Regardless I do not deserve the pain that he has inflicted on me.


It's something that so many people do - give the other person alot of thought and head space as you call it. It will mess you up! I know from experience. My husband's OW was a laundry list of bad stuff. She was someone who was a low-life in every way to start with. I still have issues with some of it because she was such trash. If I had to choose the thing that still bothers me today, it's that. You're so much better off to let that go and focus on things that you can do something about!!! 

I like it that you realize that you weren't perfect - BUT that being not perfect isn't a good enough reason for him to cheat. Nobody is perfect and never will be, but that doesn't justify an affair.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

LeighRichwood said:


> It's something that so many people do - give the other person alot of thought and head space as you call it. It will mess you up! I know from experience. My husband's OW was a laundry list of bad stuff. She was someone who was a low-life in every way to start with. I still have issues with some of it because she was such trash. If I had to choose the thing that still bothers me today, it's that. You're so much better off to let that go and focus on things that you can do something about!!!
> 
> I like it that you realize that you weren't perfect - BUT that being not perfect isn't a good enough reason for him to cheat. Nobody is perfect and never will be, but that doesn't justify an affair.


I know what you mean...I have said to H, so that fact this person knew you were still married and still chose to email you and flirt with you, some where in your mind that didn't register that she was trash?

I honestly think with H that because his was emotional and not physical that to him, in his mind, it wasn't as bad. 

I want to heal from this badly but yet I struggle everyday with feelings of anger and yes we are going to counselling and I have read countless books on this yet my emotions are like a roller coaster.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Blaming the OM/OW is a little like blaming your neighbors kid for "getting" your kid to vandalize cars. It human nature to believe some "outside" bad person led my loved you astray.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

I blame them both - it takes two . Yes he s the married one but she knew he was married with a family. She s been married twice before so she knows how fragile marriages are and how much damage can be done to children and families. He s the one who owns most of the guily and shame but the OP does not get away with it scott free, what about morals?
Having said that I hate the OP more than I ve ever hated anyone - in one post I read that this is so I can deflect most of the anger away from H so as to R?
I know that if I could get away with it, I would bring a sh!t storm to her door - I also know I can be very patient and at the moment the thought of hetting revenge helps.


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## LeighRichwood (Mar 31, 2012)

I found out some things about the OW that my H didn't even know. Some of the things I told him when I confronted him surprised him. I could tell by the look on his face that I had info he didn't have. She was 38 years old and married/divorced 4 times. He only knew about one. This was the most positive thing about her in all the stuff I found out when I went to the court house to look at the public records on her.

I hope the counseling helps. Anger is hard to let go of, but it does happen if you allow it. Once I started realizing that I was punishing myself by staying angry, I was able to get past some of it quicker.


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## LeighRichwood (Mar 31, 2012)

ilovechocolate - I don't mean to laugh, but your post hits home with me. I've had numerous daydreams about revenge on the OW! Hahaha


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

LeighRichwood said:


> ilovechocolate - I don't mean to laugh, but your post hits home with me. I've had numerous daydreams about revenge on the OW! Hahaha




I know it s hard - I know where she works, her mobile number and for a couple of pounds could get her home address of the net - I ve been holding off cos every time I mention it H goes off on one and starts bleating on about how ill she is(cancer) and how I ve won (cos he stopped the A on DDay and has been working on the marriage ever since) but I don t care about any of it . She was putting pressue on him to leave me and my child 
to break up my child s family and secure enviroment and that s one thing I can t look past .


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

I know the AP and I blame her, she was the one that started the whole thing, flirting with him etc. She got mad at him when he said he could not leave me.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I just read something online about writing the OW/OM a letter in which you vent and tell them everything you think of them and then destroy it. I think I might have to do that...because I know in my case my anger toward her is not helping me heal at all. I am giving her way too much power and control over my life. 


Has anybody done anything like this?


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

highwood said:


> I just read something online about writing the OW/OM a letter in which you vent and tell them everything you think of them and then destroy it. I think I might have to do that...because I know in my case my anger toward her is not helping me heal at all. I am giving her way too much power and control over my life.
> 
> 
> Has anybody done anything like this?


I started doing this a couple of weeks ago, Since DDay, I ve felt that OW has power and control and I lost my self confidence, self belief - my mojo if you will . I set up an e mail account and sometime log in just to write a couple of lines or a couple of paragraphs just to vent. It was while having one of these rants that I realised 10 months down and I ve been letting her have power over me (even if she does nt know) so on weekend I went out signed up for night school had my hair done and have started a fitness plan . I m not going to let the b!tch win.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

highwood said:


> I just read something online about writing the OW/OM a letter in which you vent and tell them everything you think of them and then destroy it. I think I might have to do that...because I know in my case my anger toward her is not helping me heal at all. I am giving her way too much power and control over my life.
> 
> 
> Has anybody done anything like this?


I did. It helped. I am not AS angry as I was before. But I still have anger toward her. Possibly because I had considered her a friend for four years before this? Possibly because, as my so-called friend, she was privy to my dissatisfaction? And as my "friend" she had that ALL at her disposal, and encouraged me to tell my husband I was unhappy and wanted out. Believe me when I say that the anger I feel toward her right now is nowhere NEAR what I felt when I learned of the EA two months ago. Perhaps I need to write another one and destroy it as well... I don't know. But when I wrote the first one, I let my husband read it. I also let him read the one I wrote to him. It helps, even if it only alleviates a fraction of the anger/hate/resentment... that's a little less than you have right now, at least.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

ilovechocolate said:


> I started doing this a couple of weeks ago, Since DDay, I ve felt that OW has power and control and I lost my self confidence, self belief - my mojo if you will . I set up an e mail account and sometime log in just to write a couple of lines or a couple of paragraphs just to vent. It was while having one of these rants that I realised 10 months down and I ve been letting her have power over me (even if she does nt know) so on weekend I went out signed up for night school had my hair done and have started a fitness plan . I m not going to let the b!tch win.


Awesome you rock! I am going to do that!

I saw on OPrah one day where Oprah said that she harbored anger toward someone for years and one day she saw them merrily out and about and she thought..here I was wasting energy on them and they had no clue and instead were living their life not even thinking about her. That is exactly what I am doing...plus I don't know her background. She comes from the Phillipines maybe life was hard for her and when she met H she thought he was her ticket to a better life..I don't know what her life experiences have been and what led her down the path she chose. 

Maybe if I flip it around then instead of harboring anger I will develop sympathy for her. I live in a great first world country (Canada) with lots of opportunity so I don't know what it is like to grow up in a third world country. Realistically how can I expect her to have shown compassion for me when we do not know each other and live in two countries separated by an ocean. Two different worlds in some ways.


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## nonjudgemental (May 7, 2012)

I tried to discuss this very subject just last week in another thread and was slaughtered for my opinion that is was the WS fault for having the affair, because he/she were the one who were responsible to the marriage and the one who broke their marriage vows - not the OM/OW. I was accused of saying the OM/OW held no responsibility, which I never did nor would I ever say. Both parties involved in an affair are to blame for allowing the affair to happen and for what happened during the affair. However, the WS is the sole responsible party for ruining his/her marriage, as it doesn't matter how the affair happened, it is your H or W that chose to willingly participate in it. JMO


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## chattycathy (Aug 19, 2011)

I'll say
initially my spouse for spending time alone with someone of the opposite gender and crossing line after line after line with them.

Then I say the other woman
she had less to lose in the situation. Just a spouse she could replace. No kids, life savings, etc. AND she dated and f-d a man who had a car seat in the back seat of his car on their dates. How slimy and cruel and outright thieving it is.

The other person is like a rapist who rapes while someone is asleep and completely in secret thinking that makes it okay.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

There is an old Mexican saying "A man goes as far as a woman allows him to". So my vote for 100% responsibility for the affair goes to my ex-wife. She could have acknowledged that something was not right with her and come to me for help, her husband, the man who would have taken a bullet for her. Being a broken/sick spouse is not a sin, but knowing and choosing to self-medicate through an affair, is.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

nonjudgemental said:


> I tried to discuss this very subject just last week in another thread and was slaughtered for my opinion that is was the WS fault for having the affair, because he/she were the one who were responsible to the marriage and the one who broke their marriage vows - not the OM/OW. I was accused of saying the OM/OW held no responsibility, which I never did nor would I ever say. Both parties involved in an affair are to blame for allowing the affair to happen and for what happened during the affair. However, the WS is the sole responsible party for ruining his/her marriage, as it doesn't matter how the affair happened, it is your H or W that chose to willingly participate in it. JMO


I well remember your part of the conversation, Nonjudgemental... 

For any who missed that thread, here it is:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/46637-what-ows.html


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

The AP is just a piece of trash that you honestly should have no respect or concerns about. It's the cheating spouse that decided to screw that piece of trash.

Heck, I wonder if my ex's pieces of trash even knew she was married (I'm sure she didn't tell them that she had a really great guy at home providing for her and taking care of her child). If they did know, then honestly she is the rotten one for allowing them to know that and letting both get their kicks from destroying something valuable.

No matter what the circumstances, if your spouse consents to infidelity they are 100% to blame.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

The AP never promised me their monogamy.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

highwood said:


> Awesome you rock! I am going to do that!
> 
> I saw on OPrah one day where Oprah said that she harbored anger toward someone for years and one day she saw them merrily out and about and she thought..here I was wasting energy on them and they had no clue and instead were living their life not even thinking about her. That is exactly what I am doing...plus I don't know her background. She comes from the Phillipines maybe life was hard for her and when she met H she thought he was her ticket to a better life..I don't know what her life experiences have been and what led her down the path she chose.
> 
> ...


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

So I just typed out 2 - 1/2 pages to H's OW...now I am wondering should I send it to her as a final "I'm done wasting energy on you" kind of thing??? I do have her email address.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

highwood said:


> So I just typed out 2 - 1/2 pages to H's OW...now I am wondering should I send it to her as a final "I'm done wasting energy on you" kind of thing??? I do have her email address.



Why give her the staisfaction of knowing that she s getting to you? Just save it to your account - maybe in a month or so go back and read all the e mails you ve written and hopefully you ll see the anger and resentment fading?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

well this is why i put 100% responsibility on my spouse - she used to say that love is a decision and someone has 100% control of whether they have an affair or not - i agree - she had control of ALL the inside information on our relationship and she chose to divulge it to open the door to some other guy's advances. When someone begins to divulge secrets in a marriage to outsiders - especially to gain sympathy from other men (or opposite sex) the marriage is pretty well doomed....in a work situation whenever a woman would share personal negative stories about their husbands, I knew it was inappropriate and felt bad for the spouse. I personally made an effort to brag up my former spouse to others because I knew it looked good for me and because I knew by not doing so only invited trouble from others. Best to keep personal things personal......


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## nonjudgemental (May 7, 2012)

Good. Thank you for posting it, I did not know how. Maybe it will be read again and all of the people who immediately jumped on the hate wagon will actually understand I said exactly what has been said by many others on this thread.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

In it I just said that I am done being angry with her that I am more sad for her that she has to cling to some 8 month online thing. I mentioned stuff he told me about her, etc. etc. About how his family and his son are disappointed and angry with him...how they would never accept her in his life, etc. etc. 

A part of me does want to send it to her so she can see how fruitless this whole situation is and how unrealistic that a relationship with him is.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

highwood said:


> In it I just said that I am done being angry with her that I am more sad for her that she has to cling to some 8 month online thing. I mentioned stuff he told me about her, etc. etc. About how his family and his son are disappointed and angry with him...how they would never accept her in his life, etc. etc.
> 
> A part of me does want to send it to her so she can see how fruitless this whole situation is and how unrealistic that a relationship with him is.


But imagine her sitting there smirking knowing she s still on your mind, still causing problems in your life .


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## Sweet Tea (May 4, 2012)

I would not send it. She is an adult. She knows what she did was wrong and she has proven she does not care about you or your family.

This may backfire on you. The more you acknowledge her, the more power you give her. The best revenge is to never look back.


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## Zippy the chimp (May 15, 2012)

I think it depends on whether you knew the ow/om from a man's view if I know the OM even if I met him once and then found out he pursued my W then he definetely gets some of the blame maybe it's a guy thing. It's like blaming a stray dog for ****ting on your lawn while he knows it's not his lawn the temptation is there, your neighbors dog on the other hand your neighbor gets some of the blame for letting his dog run. If I wasn't married and wanted to date a woman one of my friend's had dated I would ask them if it was all right to go after her. Then again I would never think of sending **** pics to another man's wife but a few of my friends did. Getting back to the point really no matter if they were drunk or just about anything else there is no excuse for a cheating spouse all the blame is upon them they made the choices and put themselves in a position for the wrong things to happen, does the betrayed spouse have some responsibility for the way the WS felt and that may have contributed to the A absolutely, but the fiinal decision was their's and their's alone.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

nonjudgemental said:


> I tried to discuss this very subject just last week in another thread and was slaughtered for my opinion that is was the WS fault for having the affair, because he/she were the one who were responsible to the marriage and the one who broke their marriage vows - not the OM/OW. *I was accused of saying the OM/OW held no responsibility, which I never did nor would I ever say*. Both parties involved in an affair are to blame for allowing the affair to happen and for what happened during the affair. However, the WS is the sole responsible party for ruining his/her marriage, as it doesn't matter how the affair happened, it is your H or W that chose to willingly participate in it. JMO


No what you were saying was a different thing, this thread is about the act of infidelity from a marriage. What the other thread was about was the actions of the AP. In a marriage it is entirely the WS' blame for their decision to cheat, but that in no way absolves you of responsibility as an OW or dismisses your reprehensible behavior.

You DID say whether the AP did or didn't know about the WS being married was irrelevant.. and that is entirely untrue its completely relevant. AP's whom know that the cheater is married are lowlife-instruments of destruction against marriages.

You were slaughtered in the other thread because you expressed moral ambiguity to the concept of marriage and committment.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

It's all mututal. Me for having poorly defined boundaries, ex-spouse for being a power-hungry manipulator and all the OW for being naive and gullible and needy (due to various insecurities, mostly with being old or not being comfortable with their body image - overweight - and being needy and malleable.)


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

highwood said:


> In it I just said that I am done being angry with her that I am more sad for her that she has to cling to some 8 month online thing. I mentioned stuff he told me about her, etc. etc. About how his family and his son are disappointed and angry with him...how they would never accept her in his life, etc. etc.
> 
> A part of me does want to send it to her so she can see how fruitless this whole situation is and how unrealistic that a relationship with him is.


She didn't take anything your husband wasn't offering. If she hadn't taken his offer, someone else would have. If it makes you feel better, send her the letter but don't imagine you're going to change her or make her feel loads of guilt. If I were the OW, I think the worst punishment would be to be reduced to nothingness, not significant enough to even get a noticeable reaction from his wife. She clearly wouldn't regard me as a serious threat, but just a piece of insignificant garbage my husband carried around briefly like pocket lint.


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## oregonmom (Jan 6, 2012)

My story is pretty crazy, and I could easily blame the OW for the A. After all, she knew me and that H was married, she knew he had a drug problem and used the pills she was giving him as a way into his pants...so many reasons for me to be angry with her.

But my husband is the one who made his vows to me. He relapsed and was more interested in continuing to use instead of getting his sh!t back together. He flirted with her to get pills, she propositioned him (supposedly, who really knows) but he didn't say no. He told her where there were no cameras so they could kiss at work for the first time...somehow he thinks because he just told her where to go and what time to be there, that she is to blame for being there and "attacking" him (wtf??).

He tells me it was all his fault, he broke vows blah blah blah, but when it comes to specific things that happened (such as kiss) it turns into her fault. Or his addictions fault. I'd blame her (or his addiction) a lot more if he would REALLY take responsibility.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Sweet Tea said:


> I would not send it. She is an adult. She knows what she did was wrong and she has proven she does not care about you or your family.
> 
> This may backfire on you. The more you acknowledge her, the more power you give her. The best revenge is to never look back.


I agree - one of the most difficult things I had to get in my head was that my STBXW was the same person I was married to...SHE ISNT!! Doesn't care, and the not caring persisted and accelerated to the day she had the affair and even more so afterwards. over time I got to see the level of deceit it takes to engage in and participate in an affair--------ALOT! It takes alot of non personalizing the other person just to live with yourself to engage in affair....so dont give her satisfaction of being hurt.....mine is pissed that I am moving on...


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

I think 80/20 rule probably applies here also. 80% WS and 20% AP. As others have already said, WS is the one who took the vows, not the AP. AP didn't break the trust. AP just broke the basic social laws - The laws that keep the people responsible.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> but just a piece of insignificant garbage my husband carried around briefly like pocket lint.


That's how I feel about the OW and have treated her when running into her anywhere. 

She is like an insignificant bit of dust I need to brush off my shoulder to keep my jacket tidy. 

With that said, the OW are partially to blame for being so willing to deceive their own spouse and the spouse of their affair partner simply for sex.

I actually respect prostitutes and call girls more than the single or married other woman in an affair. At least the prostitutes and call girls present themselves as who they are, they charge for their services, and they rarely trying to poach another woman's spouse.

Studies show that cheating woman rarely cheat solely for sex. Typically they want to upgrade. The upgrade can be a better looking person, a person who simply pays them more attention, or one who earns more.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Studies show that cheating woman rarely cheat solely for sex. Typically they want to upgrade. The upgrade can be a better looking person, a person who simply pays them more attention, or one who earns more.


geez thanks for this........doesn't mean they'll get it though?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

akashNil said:


> I think 80/20 rule probably applies here also. 80% WS and 20% AP. As others have already said, WS is the one who took the vows, not the AP. *AP didn't break the trust. AP just broke the basic social laws - The laws that keep the people responsible.*


As a general rule, I will agree with that. And, I will concede that the WS is more at fault. But would you use this rule for someone who was (or acted like) a friend for years, but then jumped at the opportunity when the marriage was getting/had gotten rocky? Obviously, the WS is more at fault, due to vows being broken (or simple betrayal if not physically unfaithful). But would you consider the OW/OM had more culpability if they had wormed their way in, as a friend? Not necessarily 50/50... but maybe 70/30 or 60/40?


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> As a general rule, I will agree with that. And, I will concede that the WS is more at fault. But would you use this rule for someone who was (or acted like) a friend for years, but then jumped at the opportunity when the marriage was getting/had gotten rocky? Obviously, the WS is more at fault, due to vows being broken (or simple betrayal if not physically unfaithful). But would you consider the OW/OM had more culpability if they had wormed their way in, as a friend? Not necessarily 50/50... but maybe 70/30 or 60/40?


Yes - you are right. That is a special case. It happened several times in my case (Not by me). It hurts more when a known person does that to your spouse.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks all! At the time I thought I wanted to send it to her but no I am thinking why bother. It felt good to write it out though...3 pages worth..wow sometimes once you start you can just go and go. I have to make this a habit...once those angry feelings start I know they will dissipate so I have to remember that.


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## ilovechocolate (Jan 16, 2012)

highwood said:


> Thanks all! At the time I thought I wanted to send it to her but no I am thinking why bother. It felt good to write it out though...3 pages worth..wow sometimes once you start you can just go and go. I have to make this a habit...once those angry feelings start I know they will dissipate so I have to remember that.


Just keep typing away - as long as only you have the password etc you can really let rip . Start another folder charting the good days then when you re down you can re read to draw strength .


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> I just had an interesting discussion with an old friend when talking about my STBXWs affair - he kept saying I should straighten out the other guy but I totally blame my spouse for her actions because SHE knew she was married she knew what she was doing, she never wore her ring at work, she had control of all the information...but my friend insisted that the other man knew what he was doing and knew she was married but pursued it anyway ---- i dont know - i dont care about him and what he did just about what my STBXW did........thoughts?


It depends.

If someone pursues someone who is very vulnerable, then the pursuit might be at fault, at least 50/50. 

But if the husband/wife decides to do some risky stuff or sets their cap at someone (for example, woman of 40 with a boy of 18, or man of 40 and girl of 18) then the spouse is largely responsible.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

LeighRichwood said:


> It's something that so many people do - give the other person alot of thought and head space as you call it. It will mess you up! I know from experience. My husband's OW was a laundry list of bad stuff. She was someone who was a low-life in every way to start with. I still have issues with some of it because she was such trash.


Regarding the EA that my bf had, what I find interesting is that he is adamant that
1) she was less physically attractive
2) less sexually attractive (like zero he told me)
3) not as nice or interesting
4) her friends weren't nice or interesting ........
5) he said that she even told him that her bf was better in bed than he was.

But still, he withheld sex from me during that period which suggests to me that he was contemplating doing it with her;

The level of generosity towards her compared to me is well documented......

Perhaps you men might be able to explain how a guy can say that 5 things above in all seriousness despite what the reality is and that your partner knows it.

OTOH, I have now learned about this interesting trend of women who have no problems using men by trying to present themselves as "just friends" while they expect to treated like a gf and their most common weapon is text messaging.

This incident has also helped to crystallise certain things, along with the help of this message board, things like:

1) I don't need to put with my partner's opposite sex so called friendships.
2) There are some women who are not open to negotiation nor compromise and that I do not need to be shy about dispatching their presence from our lives. This becomes obvious when you read texts like "Why don't you stop dating her."
3) I've also learned more about Facebook and internet searches.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

highwood said:


> So I just typed out 2 - 1/2 pages to H's OW...now I am wondering should I send it to her as a final "I'm done wasting energy on you" kind of thing??? I do have her email address.


Yeah, Highwood, that reminds me of the commercial where the girl calls the guy to inform him that she is giving him the silent treatment.

Don't use the energy, don't give her the satisfaction -- regardless of what your email actually says, the message it will send it, "I'm still focusing lots of energy on you."


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Your right! I will not send it! I think if I am honest with myself one of me reasons is to let her know especially the part that his family and his son would never accept her as his girlfriend so stay away.

I hate how powerless i feel in this situation at times.....


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Evil people see to their own destruction. The best way to punish her is to leave her alone and let her reap the natural consequences of her own piss-poor choices. I wouldn't waste the stamp.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Regarding the EA that my bf had, what I find interesting is that he is adamant that
> 
> 5) he said that she even told him that her bf was better in bed than he was.
> 
> But still, he withheld sex from me during that period which suggests to me that he was contemplating doing it with her;


Umm, actually, sorry to point this out, but for her to say her bf was better in bed than he was, must indicate that she had some empirical evidence to base that statement on?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Umm, actually, sorry to point this out, but for her to say her bf was better in bed than he was, must indicate that she had some empirical evidence to base that statement on?


They had dated before he met me. He said that was when they had had sex. None of the e-mails, text messages or FB messages suggest that they had sex.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> They had dated before he met me. He said that was when they had had sex. None of the e-mails, text messages or FB messages suggest that they had sex.


Thank God for that! :smthumbup: You had me worried for a while!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Thank God for that! :smthumbup: You had me worried for a while!


In fact, one of the more interesting e-mails between them was when she chided him about what he called a pity kiss between them. I asked him about it and he admitted that he had initiated it and she rejected him which was a pivotal moment in their EA. that's when he dropped all interest in wanting to date her again.

I understand one way for men to decide whether they have been friend zoned is to go in for the kiss and see if it's returned.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> I just had an interesting discussion with an old friend when talking about my STBXWs affair - he kept saying I should straighten out the other guy but I totally blame my spouse for her actions because SHE knew she was married she knew what she was doing, she never wore her ring at work, she had control of all the information...but my friend insisted that the other man knew what he was doing and knew she was married but pursued it anyway ---- i dont know - i dont care about him and what he did just about what my STBXW did........thoughts?


 I would give the EA partner a bit of the blame. She knew he was married and so was she. I blame my H for the rest. He had a commitment with me, children, a home, life. He did what he did knowing she also was married. I find that the disgusting part because I believed he valued marriage as much as my self but he disrespected our's and her's.

I learned that she often stepped out on her husband and so it makes her the most disgusting person and one with no morals so she has no inhibitions to make her second guess her own selfish wants and her home wreaking ways. I think she is addicted to the chase and I know my husband got caught up in her attentions and the taboo drama of it all and taking the opportunity to have their little EA. But he is 100% to blame. I will not minimize or absolve him of his actions by blaming another for the choices he made.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Regarding the EA that my bf had, what I find interesting is that he is adamant that
> 1) she was less physically attractive
> 2) less sexually attractive (like zero he told me)
> 3) not as nice or interesting
> ...


They all say that to make you feel better. My STBXW said that stuff after her EA and I found out later she still pursued the guy after we got back together. Need I remind everyone she had a PA 3 years later. The point being - there was something wrong with HER! This sounds like major rug sweeping to me........feds the ego but no sincerity.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Speaking as someone who cheated, my OW knew I was married, but if it wasn't them, it would have been someone else. They never encouraged or seduced me, nor I them. 

I know there's cases where the other person's action have a major impact on a spouses decisions to cheat, but I suspect in most cases, it's closer to my experience. However, when DDay hits, it's much easier for both the WS and BS to demonize the other person. Heck, it might even speed up the healing/reconciliation process, as the friction eases between the spouses. But for me personally, I sure wouldn't blame the OW. The decision to cheat was all on me.

Just my $0.02 worth.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Just use the BUT FOR test---BUT FOR, what the cheating spouse did, we wouldn't be here would we.

AP, is lowlife scum, but they are not your spouse, they never took vows, with you, and they are not responsible for your mge.

Two and only Two people are responsible for a mge., and how it proceeds thru life, THE TWO SPOUSES.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Ultimately, it's the spouse's fault, 100%.

There's that simple word and it's called "No".


They are the one who shared vows with you.
They are the ones who you gave all of your trust to.
They are the ones who said "I love you".
They are the ones who looked you in the eyes and lied.

That's who's to blame.


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## mychoice (Mar 31, 2012)

It's simple...if your husband (wife) had turned their head at that pivotal moment to notice anything (your child, a butterfly, a car acceident, etc) maybe HE (SHE) wouldn't have even notices the invitation?

The choice comes at the invitation. If it was someone else's fault (or choice) wouldn't we all be WS's? There is only one person who deserves blame "ME" if I'm the one who cheated. It's like blaming someone else for one's alcoholism. Their is only one responsible party...self!!!

That means, if you're a BS, the OP has nothing to do with the choices of your spouse. Could be Brad Pit...or anyone, at that one moment...you choose!!!

It is only entitlement that makes it all possible. Gees, learn what you really are in this world. You're nothing! Learn that you have to earn the right from each and every person to let you into their life. Having that level of humilty would never allow anybody to "cheat". 

No my friend, the responsibility, the blame, only lies with one!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

cantthinkstraight said:


> Ultimately, it's the spouse's fault, 100%.
> 
> There's that simple word and it's called "No".
> 
> ...


They are also the ones to whom we have dedicated our lives.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> They are also the ones to whom we have dedicated our lives.


I guess that becomes moot to me once they are the ones
who share their vagina over and over again with another man.

How did they dedicate themselves to us by cheating?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

cantthinkstraight said:


> I guess that becomes moot to me once they are the ones
> who share their vagina over and over again with another man.
> 
> *How did they dedicate themselves to us by cheating?*


Yes, that is something to review when they are caught cheating.


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## kruppmart (May 10, 2012)

90% my STBXW, 10% the OM. She was persuing him, and he took advantage, even I told him several times to stop contacting her.

He is more or less insignificant for me, but she gave me all the hurt; she did not show any loyalty, no remorse, no conscience. SHe moved on as this is the most normal thing in the world. I am just waiting for god's judgement.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Always the spouse or significant other 100%!!! The AP or other partner were just a tool.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Regarding the EA that my bf had, what I find interesting is that he is adamant that
> 1) she was less physically attractive
> 2) less sexually attractive (like zero he told me)
> 3) not as nice or interesting
> ...


My cheater Husband ( i really take issue with the kind terminology of wayward spouse) said the same about his lover. 

Is that supposed to make me feel good. He put our relationship at risk for nothing?

You are right, too about this growing subset of
sexually aggressive woman who claim to want to be friends but than use the man for gifts, trips and dinners out. These are typically married housewives who have good husbands, yet they are bored and unhappy. These woman target long term married man, knowing the sex in a long term relationship always loses the luster of the new stuff. They offer sex in exchange for attention and gifts.

I also have no issue with dispatching the presence of low morality woman from my life. There are plenty of good people out there, why associate with low lives.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> I understand one way for men to decide whether they have been friend zoned is to go in for the kiss and see if it's returned.


Yes. I have heard consistently this applies to EA's between both men and women. 

The woman who is the aggressor will often initiate the first kiss. 

Women are becoming more sexually aggressive about affairs, according to studies and trends that track such things.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> You are right, too about this growing subset of
> sexually aggressive woman who claim to want to be friends but than use the man for gifts, trips and dinners out. These are typically married housewives who have good husbands, yet they are bored and unhappy. These woman target long term married man, knowing the sex in a long term relationship always loses the luster of the new stuff. They offer sex in exchange for attention and gifts.


I was thinking that the profile for this group are younger women because they have grown up in an era of less formality between the sexes. But then us women in our 50s were at the foot of this trend as well. I told my sister to be careful of one particularly aggressive dentist's wife who apparently told my sister that she knew no one eligible to introduce to my sister. I said, she may be the type who likes to keep her eunuchs to herself. Some men really prefer outsourcine the management of their social life to one or two Queen Bees.

Sometimes as I pass by old school houses, I notice that there are doorways designated as "Girls' Entrance" and "Boys' Entrance." 

Also I remember on the radio a woman recounting how she met her husband in the 50s. In Ireland at that time, she said, when you went out to dance, men were on one side of the room; women on the other. The only time the singles got together was to dance. Imagine, a single woman not following those rules back then was branded as a "****."

Now these days, they are looked upon as "cool people" because "some of their best friends are men."


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> OW is a total piece of sh!t and would not know a scruple if it bit her on the azz,


I love that phrase, may I borrow it in the future?:rofl:


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Now these days, they are looked upon as "cool people" because "some of their best friends are men."


Yes. Male friends with benefits is considered cool by the under 40 crowd, according to the stats. 

Still many of these woman will try to upgrade if the opportunity exists with the Affair partner. The upgrade can be in looks, attention, status or money.

The stats also show, however that woman over 50 are also cheating in record numbers but mainly for sex. 

Perhaps because their spouses have erectile dysfunction.

If my spouse had ED, I would still NOT cheat. The vows said in sickness and in health.

In most religions the only grounds for a marital annulment is infidelity.

IMO, my cheater husband Nulled our marital contract when he planned to and chose to cheat


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Still many of these woman will try to upgrade if the opportunity exists with the Affair partner. The upgrade can be in looks, attention, status or money.


My impression is that they are not too fussed about getting married until about 35 years old, hence the "I'm not looking for anything serious right now" routine. And of course men allow themselves to get friend zoned because they don't take that line seriously.

but as my uncle once said, you find a fool, you rub his head. So there's a lot head rubbing going on here.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> My impression is that they are not too fussed about getting married until about 35 years old, hence the "I'm not looking for anything serious right now" routine. And of course men allow themselves to get friend zoned because they don't take that line seriously.
> 
> but as my uncle once said, you find a fool, you rub his head. So there's a lot head rubbing going on here.


Exactly. They found a fool and rubbed his head for favors.

The sad thing about the stats is the typical affair partner to a married man is NOT single. 

The university studies are showing that a married woman with children between 28 and 45 is the most likely affair partner for a married man.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Also to add to the last post. 

The single women who date married men in this trend, usually don't want to married the cheater.

It is the cheating married woman who wants to upgrade. 

The single women also get bored with the affair more quickly. 

A married cheating woman will keep it going longer.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

highwood said:


> So I just typed out 2 - 1/2 pages to H's OW...now I am wondering should I send it to her as a final "I'm done wasting energy on you" kind of thing??? I do have her email address.


Thanks again for great advice..I was thinking last night you are right..I am so *glad* I did not send her the letter. 

I have decided to view her with pity instead of anger...why would I expect her, someone I have never met, we live in two different countries, to have empathy for me. She has no control at all about my situation...I gave her too much power and control by getting angry and spewing venom against her. Instead I feel sorry for her.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I love that phrase, may I borrow it in the future?:rofl:


It would be an honor, I often wish to quote you too.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> It would be an honor, I often wish to quote you too.


Thank you, and Ditto.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

To me it depends on if the AP knew the spouse was married or not. If my wife is out on a business trip, takes off her ring, lies to the guys at the hotel bar and has a ONS then that's all on her. Anything that happens locally in my small town and he's gonna know she's married no matter how much she tries to hide it and that's cause for blame on both of them. But overall my spouse gets the brunt of it for either pursuing or allowing themselves to be pursued.


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## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

Blame belongs 100% on the spouse.

They are the only ones who broke their vows to you. Moment to moment to moment they, and they alone, chose to make every decision that let to the ultimate betrayal.

That's why my I always found my wife's B.S. line: "I didn't plan it, it just happened.." so infuriating. She was presented with the choice to cheat or not and she alone made the choice to cheat.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Lyosha, amen to that.

(Still, I entertain myself with the idea of kicking the OM's nuts now and then)


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Alyosha said:


> Blame belongs 100% on the spouse.
> 
> They are the only ones who broke their vows to you. Moment to moment to moment they, and they alone, chose to make every decision that let to the ultimate betrayal.
> 
> That's why my I always found my wife's B.S. line: "I didn't plan it, it just happened.." so infuriating. She was presented with the choice to cheat or not and she alone made the choice to cheat.


Yeah the "it just happened" line is crap. They knew what they were doing every step of the way. They WALKED into the affair. It is NOT something that just happened to them.


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## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

snap said:


> Lyosha, amen to that.
> 
> (Still, I entertain myself with the idea of kicking the OM's nuts now and then)


Oh, believe me, so did I...... and HOW!

But really, that guy is just a liar with no honor and no integrity. He is a nothing to me. Right now I honestly wouldn't bother to look out the window to watch him slash his wrists.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I once felt similar for the OW. I would not break for her if she was crossing the street. I don't so much care now but if I heard something bad had happened to her I would not even be able to give her a bit of damn.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

They both knew they were married, they both did it anyway, they are both to blame.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> Yeah the "it just happened" line is crap. They knew what they were doing every step of the way. They WALKED into the affair. It is NOT something that just happened to them.


I hate that line as well...

H said to me about his EA..I wasn't looking for it, it just happened..give me a fricken break. Like that is supposed to make me feel better...like he had no control over any of it.


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## akashNil (May 20, 2012)

Also, What is the point in blaming either - both of them don't care anyway. They _might _take some satisfaction in knowing the hurt they have given you - but blame?


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