# Need help deciding



## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi folks,

I know this is probably a common question but doesn't always have the same story behind it.

My wife and I met when I was 19 in church where I was newly converted to. She had been going since she was a pre-teen.

We got married the year following this. Have had 4 kids and are 18 yrs down the road.

Since the start she was always very emotionally controlling and would throw fits over peanuts. when I think back I wish I hadn't stayed then but figured I would bare it and keep on going. Besides we would not be where we are today as far as the positives if we hadn't been together. We have great kids. 

The church obviously has a huge impact on our relationship and most likely why I stayed for so long because of the obvious reason that you just don't leave your marriage and continue to be involved in ministry ect.

Our kids have been raised with the church and trained up with the same standards as we have practiced.

Over the past year or so I've had to really examine my role and many of the standards that we held to from the church. I went through a depression / anxiety and really had to dig deep through therapy. I have since let go of many of the non essential regulations that I willingly followed from the church. As an example alcohol is an absolute no no, listening to "worldly music" as well amongst many others.

I have stopped going to church for the past month or so following a blow up we had when I was gone away for work. I finally admitted that I was just going for the sake of other people and decided I would do what is right for me.

At this point the church non-involvement is really hard for her, she continues to go with the kids but is really having a hard time with the fact that I am not going. She'll slide in the comment here and there about how she misses my singing ect. Which I understand but makes me feel bad every time.

I am having a hard time thinking this will ever get better, the making me feel bad for not going to church, what the repercussions on the kids will be ect.

Following our fight where I basically made her aware that I could possibly be leaving she has really changed her approach from what she had been doing for the past 18yrs. Leaving me much more liberty. I get that she's scared I'm going to leave but at this point I am still having a hard time when I ask the question "do I want to continue another 5yrs based on what the last 5yrs have been".

I can't fathom going the rest of our lives as I have a real hard time seeing that the improved behavior will last. I still feel relief when I am away...

There is obviously more to the story and i'll try to bring more out as I go but who can anyone relate to my situation provide me some experience based help or at least some guidance from someone who's been through something similar?

If it wasn't for the kids and all the pain it will cause them and my wife I would more that likely be gone already....

Thanks!!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Deciding what?

What if I suggest your church is more like a cult?


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

strat_guy said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> If it wasn't for the kids and all the pain it will cause them and my wife I would more that likely be gone already....
> 
> Thanks!!


I stayed for many years because of the kids and planned my exit when the last one left for college. I made that decision based on my experience as a kid from a very broken home with a super dysfunctional situation. I wanted to give my kids everything that I didn't have. Because of my career if I had left I am sure that I would never have had much of a chance to be with them and ran the risk of being nothing more than a name on a check. 

I made that decision and have to live with it. In hindsight, I'm not sure if I did the right thing for me, but my kids turned out to be great young adults so I feel vindicated when I doubt my decision.

Is there a chance you could be shunned if you left?


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

sorry  deciding if I am going to leave the marriage or stay it through... 

about the church... at this point I may have to slightly agree with you... not a cult to an extreme level but definitely cultish...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

How about a different church? Or is this really about you not wanting to be married anymore?


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Cromer said:


> I stayed for many years because of the kids and planned my exit when the last one left for college. I made that decision based on my experience as a kid from a very broken home with a super dysfunctional situation. I wanted to give my kids everything that I didn't have. Because of my career if I had left I am sure that I would never have had much of a chance to be with them and ran the risk of being nothing more than a name on a check.
> 
> I made that decision and have to live with it. In hindsight, I'm not sure if I did the right thing for me, but my kids turned out to be great young adults so I feel vindicated when I doubt my decision.
> 
> Is there a chance you could be shunned if you left?


I don't think I'd be shunned however it would obviously have an impact on the kids. I would still plan on doing everything in my ability to help them thrive and I don't think she would stop that from happening...


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

A different church could be a good step. 

Maybe mellow your wife out if you can break their hold on her. 

When my wife was held by her church she recognized many of the girls were enthralled and owned by the church, and would have been more than glad to damage their marriage in preference for the church.

My wife had no way out, until I came along. She wanted out, I am very strong willed, and she switched her allegiance to me.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

strat_guy said:


> sorry  deciding if I am going to leave the marriage or stay it through...
> 
> about the church... at this point I may have to slightly agree with you... not a cult to an extreme level but definitely cultish...


I don't understand your situation. You are looking to leave the marriage because you left the church and your W gives you a hard time about it?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

People who haven't experienced cult type churches just can't grasp what it can mean to deal with the complete control over parishioner lives those churches have.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

WilliamM said:


> A different church could be a good step.
> 
> Maybe mellow your wife out if you can break their hold on her.
> 
> ...


It's obvious and clear to me that she has no intention on leaving the church nor do I want to make her do this. The only option will be to go on with her and the kids going and me not going and feeling bad for the trouble it causes them.. They will continue to bring up things that I used to do there and I don't want to be a part of anymore in trying to being me back...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Yeswecan said:


> I don't understand your situation. You are looking to leave the marriage because you left the church and your W gives you a hard time about it?


There's much more to it than just having left the church and her giving me a hard time... but that's one thing I need to look at, is it just about this or more?.. the quick answer.. it's about the 18years of crap I've bared to keep everyone happy and now that she's had a fleeting glimpse that I may leave, everything is going to change... I don't know if I have more in me to wait and see if it will last...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

WilliamM said:


> People who haven't experienced cult type churches just can't grasp what it can mean to deal with the complete control over parishioner lives those churches have.


I agree, I haven't broken the news to her yet that I've had a few glasses of wine while away for work... I know this will be devastating for her to hear and I don't know if I will tell her if we stay together...


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Sadly, typical strategy.

We are supposed to be Christians, one and all, and any church should do.

That church is just that church, nothing special. Except they make themselves into a type of holy grail and seed the idea changing is tantamount to sacrilege.

My wife was in a rabid Pentecostal church. She was sent to a Pentecostal college and was being prepared to be some sort of maiden for the church, like a nun.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Yeah it's a similar church environment. Spent countless hours 'serving' and drug myself to depression. Tried to leave a while back but got the talk.. just give it another try, don't need to do anything extra than participate in service and be fed..

All the while I grow more and more repulsed by many of the man made doctrines that will send you to hell if you don't follow.

Just couldn't do it anymore.

Just not sure how it will work if we continue to be married... 

But don't get me wrong though, the church aspect is only one of the things involved in me arriving to this decision point.. don't forget the controlling... that is such a tough thing to go through...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

strat_guy said:


> There's much more to it than just having left the church and her giving me a hard time... but that's one thing I need to look at, is it just about this or more?.. the quick answer.. it's about the 18years of crap I've bared to keep everyone happy and now that she's had a fleeting glimpse that I may leave, everything is going to change... I don't know if I have more in me to wait and see if it will last...


Gotcha ya. You need to get you happy. You have realized at this juncture in your life that your happiness is on you. That is a truth for everyone. Only you can make you happy. Church, it is not for everyone. Marriage is not for everyone either.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

strat_guy said:


> Yeah it's a similar church environment. Spent countless hours 'serving' and drug myself to depression. Tried to leave a while back but got the talk.. just give it another try, don't need to do anything extra than participate in service and be fed..
> 
> All the while I grow more and more repulsed by many of the man made doctrines that will send you to hell if you don't follow.
> 
> ...


Sir, if it is not working for you stop going. Key word here in your post is "grow". Your are growing to realize that church is nice but not necessary to live life. Further, it cause more stress than it solves. Other are going to have to accept this. Including your W.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

That type of church is all about control. They control her, she controls you.

In my opinion she is acting out what they have pushed her to feel the need to do.

But you can't pull her away. 

My wife wanted to escape. She just wasn't strong enough on her own to say no to them. She needed someone else to take responsibility for her, and tell them no. I gave her someone to hide behind, so she could shut out the din of their message of hate.

It took her another 18 years, with 8 years of psychotherapy in there, to finally silence the preaching in her mind.


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## Rexalyn (Feb 24, 2018)

I understand your predicament. My situation is somewhat similar and my gambling husband who was brought up with a strong church faith. ( His dad is pastor). Wants nothing more than to have that submissive wife. I know I sound harsh but I get my back up sometimes when he wants me to be more involved with his church and more a care taker role ( which I do already). He feels like he can disobey god but if we do it we are horrible. .he treats me unkind and there is not a humble bone in his body. ( Not sure if it's addiction or personality trait he has .. therapist called narcasist .).. And why would I want to join him at church to pretend everything's okay when I know under it all he's not that person... Feels like it's for show and only for his benefit which is sad since it should be place of worship ... But I just can't feel fake in God's house, or be someone I'm not. I believe, I just feel like there is some degree of brainwashing with his family and sometimes I get stubborn. 
I know it's not easy to be in your position.... But I hope you find strength to stand by what you truly feel. You cant expect change if you don't follow through with plan to get there. ... My husband had heart attack a few months ago while we were just starting therapy . One thing I realized is we were to far gone to fix things.. even after a near death.. and my part in that ( my 50% ) was that I didn't speak up for myself and beliefs a long time ago. If your not ready to leave yet and really can see life with her. Maybe talk with her about the severity of how you feel regarding church and maybe you both can make a goal to meet in middle. ( (New church)... If not you need to decide what you want going forward... Resentment is never a good thing, it will turn into hate.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I have been to several churches of 6 different denominations in my life and none were as you describe. Drinking isn't forbidden in the bible, just getting drunk. Secular music is ok as long as its not satanic heavy metal type. Church isn't God, you can still chat to Him about all this without going to church, and there are plenty of good more relaxed churches out there. 

I would suggest some good marriage counselling. You have children and responsibilities and you will crush them if you leave. Please at least give it a year of counselling and trying first. You made promises to her after all for better and for worse.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

I was reading my old posts from 7 years ago and wow just reading these brings chills... That behavior has continued right up to our last fight when she realised I may leave...

It's making it harder for me to decide now because I'm thinking what if she is really changed and I won't have to deal with that bad behavior any more.. on the other hand I am thinking of the 18yrs of hell I've been through. I think of the scenario where someone is being beaten for 18years and their spouse finally stops, do they leave because of what happened and the potential it could happen again, do they stay because everything is better now???

I am a very loyal person, be it with work, church, home... that is to some degree working against me but at the same time it could be helping me not make the wrong choice...  

anyhow, it's a very tough place to be right now, even tougher than if she would just continue being nasty...


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Did you approach her about abandoning that denomination? Would she rather change the church she goes to, or the husband she goes to it with?

I say denomination because I think trading one, oh, say, SDA church for another, for instance, would be rather meaningless. But going to a Lutheran church as an alternative, just as an example, would offer totally new insights into life.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

You can switch churches, but the modern American church system is a twisted and heretical thing. I am a Christian and I can barely abide churches at all anymore. I worship at home, with my family and with certain friends.

Are you praying about these problems with your wife? How are you praying and for what? Are you a Believer, or did you just do church because that's what ya' did?


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

strat_guy said:


> *I was reading my old posts from 7 years ago and wow just reading these brings chills... That behavior has continued right up to our last fight when she realised I may leave...*
> 
> It's making it harder for me to decide now because I'm thinking *what if she is really changed* and I won't have to deal with that bad behavior any more.. on the other hand I am thinking of the 18yrs of hell I've been through. I think of the scenario where someone is being beaten for 18years and their spouse finally stops, do they leave because of what happened and the potential it could happen again, do they stay because everything is better now???
> 
> ...


OP, your previous threads suggest that your wife is controlling, passive aggressive and verbally abusive. And that her behavior is not much different from her mom/siblings. You are being incredibly naive to even consider that the positive changes she's made in response to your threat of leaving will be permanent. We are talking about ingrained behavior that she doesn't even necessarily accept is wrong. You haven't even managed to change your own self in order to quit facilitating her behavior and you're the one suffering, how in the world do you think she could accomplish this feat?

Your wife will not change unless she commits to counseling or you refuse to accept her behavior. Short of that, her changes will last as long as it takes for her to realize you're not going anywhere.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

@ WilliamM: No I haven't and I would not want to make her change church just because I don't agree with it, I don't see that being fair to her and my kids since they don't see the issues I see... I wouldn't even ask her nor do I think that would make a difference in the overall issues. The church aspect is one of a few issues as far as I can see.

@ Magnesiu: My position at this time is that I need to be away from an organisation that uses scripture to back up it's positions on certain things. Away from organizations that use fear and coercion to get people to follow their rules to make it to heaven. I am a believer and was extensively used in our church, I preached the word, I was the music director, board member, leadership team member ect ect. through the years I have prayed for help with my family situation and prayed and prayed and cried and prayed... I know that God hears me and all I am supposed to know as a Christian about trying times but part of me has accepted that I am stuck with what I have unless I make a drastic change. Leaving the marriage goes against all I know as moral but I have come to the conclusion that this may be the only way that I can be an individual again.
@Keke24: I agree with everything you are saying and have struggled with dealing with it as you can tell. I am a people pleaser by nature and have put other's happiness ahead of mine for ever. This is where I am now and making steps to change that with as little impact on others as possible. But that's not an easy thing... a fly on a spider web, however small or minute the movement, will always move the web


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

I think at this point I'm pretty much decided and have probably been for a long time. Now that the church component and feeling of obligation based on the religious concept that you are with the spouse you choose for life is not as much prominent in my mind anymore the decision is becoming clearer as they days go by.

I have tried to find real reasons to stay in the marriage and worked on getting in a better state of mind however this is the end result that keeps coming up.

I can compare myself to the robax commercial of the small figurine trying to function and dance freely but then comes the pain... I've been functioning with this condition for years but as time goes by am becoming less and less able to under the conditions.

My main focus now is finding the right way to bring the conversation up and letting her and the kids know in such a way to cause as less damage as possible to them... that in itself is eating me up day and night  

Please if anyone who has gone through this process is on the line and has some advice for me, help me out!!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

There's a big difference between being loyal and being a slave.

I've been to church's that want non questioning members. The do as I say mentality.

You want a life. Get busy living it. The only one who can keep you where you are is you.

If the church means more to her than you that tells you something doesn't it?


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

strat_guy said:


> I think at this point I'm pretty much decided and have probably been for a long time. Now that the church component and feeling of obligation based on the religious concept that you are with the spouse you choose for life is not as much prominent in my mind anymore the decision is becoming clearer as they days go by.
> 
> I have tried to find real reasons to stay in the marriage and worked on getting in a better state of mind however this is the end result that keeps coming up.
> 
> ...


So did you come here for help with staying or help with leaving because you began with the former and ended up at the latter, which is where you admit you really were all the long. But I think you should stay. I understand you are fed up, but staying with the prospect of her going back to the way she was isn't the question. And how to break the news to her and the kids isn't the question either. The question is how to stay and let her know she cannot go back to the way she was. And that's all you have to do is tell her if she does, then you will leave. You can also make going to counseling a contingency. 

It is incumbent of you to make every effort to save your marriage. I know you went through a lot, but I have to point out that you allowed it, and, therefore, you condoned it. Now you have the backbone not to take it anymore, so you should assert yourself and have her know without a doubt that you are not going to take anymore. The minute she goes back to her old ways, you are out of there. Let her know that, and go to counseling to allow you the safe environment to tell her everything you disliked and allow the counselor to help you both make your marriage better. 

You came here feigning confusion when you had already made up your mind, but you haven't taken any action toward trying to save your marriage. Do that now and make an effort for real and not just in your head. You have more control over this situation than you think. You don't really have to give up and throw your family away. It's just the easiest thing to do, but you should decide to make the sacrifice to work on things because you never did that before, certainly not in the proper way.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

I totally get what you're saying and thanks for bringing that perspective to light. 

There are two components to the situation, the behavior and the church element. But lets continue with the behavior element for now...

I don't think that this is all my fault just because I didn't push back. I think it would be fair to say that if a person has not been able to realise in 18 years that their behavior was not acceptable, whether they were told or not, has a major lack of insight and the ability to observe their environment and learn from it. They lack an understanding of what normal behavior is and it should at the very least have dawned on them at some point that it wasn't acceptable. The fact that it took the knowledge that I may leave to cause her to realise it was getting serious shows me this is the case.

I've am now totally drained emotionally and physically and have no fight left in me... Its not that I am giving up without trying but I am no longer able to put anything in it it's just not there...

I came here looking for help deciding, yes I had somewhat made up my mind probably years ago but have never had the ability to get there... right now every minute of every day is spent on the thought of how are we going to continue with separate lives... how am I going to break this crushing news to my family... how much they're going to hate me...

I don't know if you can relate but if you can picture yourself on a ledge getting the courage to dive down into the water 50' below... you've seen others do it so you know it's going to be ok but you still have that feeling in your stomach... you go to take steps but then someone behind you says wait... are you ready?? did you check how deep the water is...? you know though that someone dove in just before you and all is going to be fine... the fear is so strong and you're just going to make that last step... 

anyway that's how I feel, its hard, I've been consulting with a psychologist and been debating and contemplating every aspect of this I can think of... at some point I need to make a decision and make the step in one direction or the other and allow myself to get out of the pressure...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Sir, if it is not working for you stop going. Key word here in your post is "grow". Your are growing to realize that church is nice but not necessary to live life. Further, it cause more stress than it solves. Other are going to have to accept this. Including your W.





StarFires said:


> So did you come here for help with staying or help with leaving because you began with the former and ended up at the latter, which is where you admit you really were all the long. But I think you should stay. I understand you are fed up, but staying with the prospect of her going back to the way she was isn't the question. And how to break the news to her and the kids isn't the question either. The question is how to stay and let her know she cannot go back to the way she was. And that's all you have to do is tell her if she does, then you will leave. You can also make going to counseling a contingency.
> 
> It is incumbent of you to make every effort to save your marriage. I know you went through a lot, but I have to point out that you allowed it, and, therefore, you condoned it. Now you have the backbone not to take it anymore, so you should assert yourself and have her know without a doubt that you are not going to take anymore. The minute she goes back to her old ways, you are out of there. Let her know that, and go to counseling to allow you the safe environment to tell her everything you disliked and allow the counselor to help you both make your marriage better.
> 
> You came here feigning confusion when you had already made up your mind, but you haven't taken any action toward trying to save your marriage. Do that now and make an effort for real and not just in your head. You have more control over this situation than you think. You don't really have to give up and throw your family away. It's just the easiest thing to do, but you should decide to make the sacrifice to work on things because you never did that before, certainly not in the proper way.


I believe OP came for maybe a couple/so things; semblance of a reality check, encouragement to make his choices, and yes a little empathy. Hang in there...You can do whichever choice you make.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Secular music is ok as long as its not satanic heavy metal type.


OMG! I laughed so hard I spit out my drink. Is theater illegal too? Or just that brand of fiction? How about fiction with adultery in it?


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