# Why Stay After Infidelity



## Equinox12 (Mar 10, 2015)

I wanted to start a new thread to ask what the reasons are people choose to stay in a relationship after exposing infidelity.

I'm successful, attractive, a dedicated and loving parent. What should I consider as a reason to put up with this? 

Details of my situation are on this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ng-but-affair-likely-ended-18-months-ago.html

Honestly, I don't really see any. But I know there are other perspectives out there, so please let me hear your opinions. 

For the kids is the only reasonable answer I can come up with, but still I call Bullshvt. The kids need parents who respect themselves enough to not put up with infidelity. I would want my daughter and unborn child (if its mine or even if it isn't) to do the same in this situation.


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## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

You don't have to stay married to her.... just like I didn't. 

I filed for a divorce 4 days after the DD and never looked back. It was such a liberating feeling when I was walking out of my attorney office. My divorce was final in April 2014 and I haven't even once questioned my decision despite that we had a very good marriage. 

Pulling the plug was the best decision I could have made.... there is absolutely no guestion about it in my mind.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Equinox12 said:


> Honestly, I don't really see any.


Neither do I.

Was told that night, had an internal debate for about 30 minutes, and pulled the ejection handle the next morning. No regrets.


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## Nawlins (Feb 25, 2015)

We had kids so I stayed and tried reconciliation with my exww for almost two years, but in reality after the first year of never really getting anywhere, I spent the second year getting my affairs in order for our divorce. We had teen age children at the time, but like you I wanted my children to have positive role models for relationships and we were not it. 

Kids are resilient and as long as they have your love and care they will thrive. Please get everything in order with a lawyer before you even mention divorce with your wife; I would also include to be as fair as possible in the divorce. Last thing the kids need is a nasty divorce with parents arguing over the last detail. Has your wife shown any remorse or regret? I see by your other thread she will be providing you a timeline; please get that via email or video it when she hands it to you.


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## Equinox12 (Mar 10, 2015)

Nawlins said:


> We had kids so I stayed and tried reconciliation with my exww for almost two years, but in reality after the first year of never really getting anywhere, I spent the second year getting my affairs in order for our divorce. We had teen age children at the time, but like you I wanted my children to have positive role models for relationships and we were not it.
> 
> Kids are resilient and as long as they have your love and care they will thrive. Please get everything in order with a lawyer before you even mention divorce with your wife; I would also include to be as fair as possible in the divorce. Last thing the kids need is a nasty divorce with parents arguing over the last detail. Has your wife shown any remorse or regret? I see by your other thread she will be providing you a timeline; please get that via email or video it when she hands it to you.


She is expressing extreme regret, yes. She wants another chance badly.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

She can show all the remorse she wants. Your just going to have to decide if its enough for you. I tried for years. I was going to leave in our ninth year and she begged for another chance. She cheated throughout our marriage. I stayed and six months later caught her at it all over again. I kicked her out and filed. I kept the house and the kids. 

It was the best decision I have ever made. I won custody of my kids and the house. I have since then remarried and my xW is still out doing her normal thing. She recently cheated on the guy she cheated on me with. 

Funny thing how it all worked out. My life is great and she is like in constant rebuild mode. 

I personally recommend never staying with a cheater. The benefits far out way the negatives. 

Clay


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

married 30 years. 3 kids
7 years in she had a brief affair - never knew how far it went.
She expressed extreme remorse. We R'd.
15 years in she started an EA with a gay co-worker. Weird I know.
He became very close to our family.
After 12 years way too close. I ended it.
Been working on marriage ever since and its the best its ever been. Sex 2x week average. She initiates.
But I still check. Regularly. Its just part of life.

If she is truly remorseful for the cheating, lying, betrayal, hurt, devastation of your heart & soul and willing to do anything and everything you want and to make you comfortable and happy, I say give it a shot for the kids sake and keep monitoring.

BUT - DNA your kids first.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
There can be numerous reasons for trying to R. Many here are still very much in love with their WH/W. The children and the effect on them and also the investment of time and resources. 

Every reason that exists however, is dependent on one crucial element. The WW/H must want R more than life itself and therefore be willing to do anything and everything to save the union. I mean at a level of depth and sincerity that was heretofore unrealized. Short of that, R, for any reason, is futile and destined to fail. If your WW demonstrates the above mentioned dedication to making your M work, then it has a shot at succeeding but if there is even the slightest reservation on her part, then you are wasting your time. Only you know the situation well enough to make such a determination. Good fortune to you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I only advocate for R when it is a healthy choice and both WS and BS are on board.

Part of that equation entails a complete change in the WS.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Equinox12 said:


> She is expressing extreme regret, yes. She wants another chance badly.


After she got caught ?

Had she confessed on her own, you would know that she respects you enough to make your own decisions in life.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

Listen no married life is ever going to be perfect. There will be accidents, bad choices, and mistakes. Good times, bad times, injustices, heartaches, blissful happiness, and sense of unity.

You need to weigh the totality of the marriage, evaluate the transgressions and remedies and pragmatically reconcile with the past and future as far as you can reasonably anticipate it going forward.

I’m not knocking TAM but I think you’ll get far more pessimistic comments about reconciliation here than might be out there in the bigger world. I’ve been down this road myself as a young man (with no family considerations – which is a game changer) and it did not work out. 

In hindsight, had I been more mature and had there been a forum such as TAM – I should have known better. That said, I’m still glad I gave the situation another chance or two er’ three or four. I’ll be honest I was stupid!

An important item or two to keep in mind, is personally you are far better going forward by sharing what is going on with others (e.g., TAM) and understanding that your emotional life will be “up in the air” for some time; And notwithstanding a successful and positive reconciliation, once the clock has been rung you can’t un-ring it.

Keep your chin up my Brother.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Her total manipulation and callous selfishness combined with the good possibility that some of her kids might be from her boss, yuck, does not bode well.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think her regret and desire for another chance could make you wobble (esp. if the baby turns out to be yours). Some people reconsider their initial positions when this happens, but in my experience they usually regret not going with their first instincts. I agree with the posters here who say the best chance of successful R's after something like this are when both people really want it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

This case is especially bad because of the pregnancy. That's a difficult situation under normal circumstances.

I think you should weigh any decision heavily in favor of your unborn child. The baby trumps what is good for either of its parents.

Make no mistake, if kids were not involved I would bolt immediately. However, people are involved that are totally innocent. On top of that, there is no real reason for making a quick decision. Though what your wife has done is despicable,abandoning her now is not an option in my opinion.

The stress alone at this point could be catastrophic.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

The problem is/will be knowing when to make a decision either way unless your one of those chaps who make instant decisions and stick to them
Even by asking says your not wanting to D but you don't want the hand your cheating wife has dealt you
All you can do is read the material a few people on here will recommend and try to get a little space, which will be hard at the minute as you intend to stay until at least the babies born I think you posted
So at the minute until you find your self your wife should be on the back burner

Short term plan would be the start before deciding any thing huge


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My old lady wants to phuck all the time...I keep her around cuz she only phucks me or she can go on her way.

I'm guessing I'm a better lay then all the other swinging penises she has had. My old lady says i have character....something very hard to find these days.

Anyway...I keep her around cuz she appreciates the fact that I have the same grace as she does. That grace is forgiveness.

We both really want this. I have to believe she feels as stonge as iIdo that I will never slap her around and in turn she will never phuck around....

At the end of the day me and the old lady are just to wise and know better then to go down the shytty road again.

If you think about it, is it really worth goinf back to county or even state and her ending up with some young punk that did the same shyt to her as I did so many years ago?

I think it's worth sticking it out and living an emotionally healthier life together and reap the reward of the other spouse has to offer.


But if your not getting laid by your old lady then phuck that!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Because her EAs weren't PAs.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

This is a trick question, right?  This is one of those things if you don't know on your own, nothing I or anyone else says is going to change your mind.

All I can say is it works for me, this time and in this situation, but I can easily see where if one of two things would have been different I would have left. 

I know that all these stories seem to have a lot in common, sometimes amazingly so, but in fact the variables are endless, and in the end you pretty much have to go with your gut feeling.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Variables are endless.


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

If the new baby is not yours then if i were you i'd divorce. There's difference between cheating and cheating+impregnated+letting the husband believes that it's his kid. The former is incredibly selfish move, the latter is pure evil


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> Make no mistake, if kids were not involved I would bolt immediately. However, people are involved that are totally innocent. On top of that, there is no real reason for making a quick decision. Though what your wife has done is despicable,abandoning her now is not an option in my opinion.
> 
> The stress alone at this point could be catastrophic.


Hence my advice for a prenatal DNA test. If it's the spawn of the OM then the child is not Equinox's problem.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Equinox12

I am in R with my WW, d-day was January 20, 2014. My wife had a six month affair with her co-worker. Worked with her co-worker until April of 2014. That was very difficult for me, I thought I could handle them working together but I was wrong. They also had sex at work on company time, like your wife. Even if she checks in with you all day long your mind will wander. Is she offering to quit right now, never again set foot in that company?

You are faced with a difficult choice. Do you and your WW want to reconcile. Is your WW willing to do the heavy lifting? Do you think she is capable of doing the heavy lifting? Are you able to accept her affair? Are you willing to accept your changes and your WW changes. What you had is destroyed, burnt to a pile of ashes, can you accept that? 

You first need to figure out what you want. Sounds easy enough until you stand in the shoes of infidelity and suddenly everything has changed. I myself was torn on what to do. First thing I figured out was what is best for the kids. Staying in a marriage for kids would be wrong in my opinion. 

Take a deep breath, file for divorce if you think that is your best choice, you can always stop divorce if you decide to reconcile. Figure out the best options you have, if it's divorce or reconciliation. I will say reconciling is the hardest work I've done in my life. There hasn't been one easy moment yet, but my WW is busting her a$$. Prior to my WW affair cheating was a deal breaker for me. Like I said, until you wear those shoes you are adamant about your choice, then again....


Best of luck to you, sorry you are here.


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## Equinox12 (Mar 10, 2015)

drifting on said:


> Equinox12
> 
> Even if she checks in with you all day long your mind will wander. Is she offering to quit right now, never again set foot in that company?


My wife used to check in all the time...

Thanks for your post. I hope you have found happiness.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

some people should just never get married. they don't understand the institution.

not all people should be bio-chemists. they just don't understand that either.

folks simply have to understand what they're doing and what their responsibilities and commitments are. oh... that would require intelligence.

never mind.

kids should be required to work in a zoo before marriage. after they see it all in its raw form, they wont jump the neighbors, co-workers and pickups at clubs so much. or maybe that would make it worse.


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## Nawlins (Feb 25, 2015)

Equinox,
A lot of people here have shared good advice, but something that stands out to me is she did not confess until you confronted her. How long would she have kept it from you while gaslighting you about her feelings for the AP? I believe you have every right to ask/tell your WW the following:

* What are you going to do to prove that you want me, our marriage and our family? (something she should put in writing and send to you along with the timeline)
* I will be asking for a DNA test on the baby at birth, is there anything you want to tell me before I ask for the test?
* I would advise you to have her keep her job, if you go down the road of divorce it may cost you more if she is not working
* I would also outline what divorce might look like for the two of you, it can be a good way to judge her honesty and reasons for reconciling

I never set expectations for my exww, I wanted her to own reconciliation and I would reciprocate to all her efforts. I told my wife that for me it’s a day-to-day thing and if I ever felt it was not working out, I was not getting the truth, or if new evidence came to light, I would proceed with divorce. IMO you should tell your wife the same.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

From your other thread, I understand that you have decided to divorce - is this thread still relevant ?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Equinox12 said:


> She is expressing extreme regret, yes. She wants another chance badly.


You need to take some time and figure out what you want. That is the big question here.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Equinox12 said:


> My wife used to check in all the time...
> 
> Thanks for your post. I hope you have found happiness.



I haven't found who I was yet, the fun loving, good natured guy who found happiness from making others laugh. I have found that is truly who I am, my happiness comes from within me, when I am truly happy I enjoy making others laugh. This guy has changed, this is who I'm trying to find again. For over the past year at family parties I would sit alone, my interactions with family I no longer desired. That's one of the big factors with infidelity, the humiliation you feel upon learning your spouse has strayed. My self esteem, confidence, and self worth were gone in an instant. I felt humiliated, ashamed, and worthless. I kept asking myself, why would she do this to me? How bad of a husband was I? Why does she think I deserve this? How could she not love me? And the list goes on.

It took some time before I realized this was her choice and not mine. My WW never once came and asked me how I felt if she were going to have an affair. It was her choice she made alone. Now she sees the devastation, the destruction, the ruins of what was once a marriage. I was at work wrestling a man on PCP in eighty degree weather, it was similar to wrestling a greased pig. Even with help we all struggled, it could have gone very bad but didn't. My WW was in the next town over in a forest preserve, having sex with her OM. Equinox12 I have never shared that before, but I do so you realize what your thoughts will go to. It is very unpleasant at times, and at others you see progress. 

Now I would have these exact thoughts if I divorced or reconciled, so which is better? I know in my case reconciling is my best option. Your case is different with exception that our wives cheated. Divorce will present pain and suffering also, there is no option where you walk away without hurting. That is infidelity at its finest, you never wanted to be in this position but you are, and now comes the part that every decision you make was unwanted. Now you will have pain the rest of your life in my opinion with either choice. I only hope you don't make a decision from anger, this is very hard to do. Each time I tried to decide the pain rushed in and I would go into a rage, making rendering a decision almost impossible. 

I hope to find peace and happiness in my future, I hope my reconciliation thrives, but I can only control me and I've taken the leap of faith with my wife. Some may say I'm foolish, fear divorce, scared of living life on my own. That's not my case, I would have divorced in an instant, but I chose to accept the affair. I chose that my wife has changed, doing all the heavy lifting, recognizing my triggers, pain and talking me through them. She is remorseful, regretful, ashamed, humiliated , and in great pain herself. She has miserable days like I, she is working to repair the destruction she caused, she is working to repair herself. I can't fix what she has done, I can't help with why she cheated, but I am here for her if she needs someone to lean on. My wife has to face her demons to fix herself, we both face those demons to fix the marriage. 

Equinox12, you are in a very bad time right now. I say it gets worse down the road, when the anger comes in and the roller coaster takes you to your limits. Stay here and learn from other posters, as I have, and you will get through. This has actually become very good therapy for me to interact here and get emotions out into the open. I hope it's a place where you can feel a therapeutic calm also just by writing things out. For so long I felt alone until I realized just how many good people are here with the same common denominator, infidelity. I began to post after I realized this and so many posters have helped me while helping others. I post parts of my story here so others can see they aren't alone, people do understand what you are feeling. Maybe something I write helps you, maybe it doesn't, but I wish none of us were here to begin with.

Best of luck to you, I hope one day you find peace and happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

the new post to the evience thread shows how much of a game it is to keep cheating all a secret. cheating is a willful act. not cheating is a willful act. and now the BS says they'll stay because of children... 

is that not part of manipluation plan B+C by the WS. using kids as leverage to maintain the plan B? is that what a WS can argue beg or think too?

yes my dearest beloved... i cheated and may again.. youll never know the complete truth, but lets stay for the kids sake..

among thousands of other reasons, -- i thought it was for the kids sake one does not cheat. NOT A REWARD for cheating...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Q tip said:


> the new post to the evience thread shows how much of a game it is to keep cheating all a secret. cheating is a willful act. not cheating is a willful act. and now the BS says they'll stay because of children...
> 
> is that not part of manipluation plan B+C by the WS. using kids as leverage to maintain the plan B? is that what a WS can argue beg or think too?
> 
> ...


In other words...



GusPolinski said:


> Sorry, but this wouldn't come across as any sort of "respect" to me. Seriously, how would that conversation go? Here is one version...
> 
> "Honey, OM is a total d-bag, and he can't or won't provide for my baby. And that's cool, because you're a much better man, and a much better provider. I really only wanted him sexually, and all that I wanted from him was his seed. Now that I've gotten that, I'd really prefer that my child and I stay in this home, which you've provided with your many years of blood, sweat, and hard work. And if you could manage to pour the next 18+ years of yourself into helping me to love, nurture, feed, clothe, educate, and provide for this child, that would be great. Thanks. *Oh, and I promise that I'll never do this again. Unless I want to.*"


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## NosborCrop (Feb 25, 2015)

:iagree:


Daniel. said:


> If the new baby is not yours then if i were you i'd divorce. There's difference between cheating and cheating+impregnated+letting the husband believes that it's his kid. The former is incredibly selfish move, the latter is pure evil


:iagree:


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Society.

OP, I have reflected on this question and your situation and am greatly saddened by it all. From your other thread it seems things have grown steadily worse over the last couple of days and it appears that your marriage may be over. This trend is very troubling.

As a culture, we have become so superficial and so self centered that I fear soon there will cease to exist sufficient empathy and accountability to sustain even a modicum of society. A family is really nothing more than a mini society and can be very much looked at as a precursor to evolving societal trends. In other words, as the family goes, so goes society.

This alarming disregard for the sanctity of marriage, not as some religious edict, although it is that, but rather as an example of one's commitment and dedication to something larger and more important than oneself is pointing the way to the future of our society. A marriage is a sacrifice of one's self to a greater good, the family. It also serves to provide proof of one's honor and integrity demonstrated by living true to one's solemn vow.

There has been some debate as to the conditions under which individuals are expected to keep their word and I find this also troubling. Life is replete with extenuating circumstances which can be conveniently used to explain all forms of deviant behavior but in the end, is it not the responsibility of the individual to self govern and practice self control?

For instance, is a bank teller expected to be honest only if they have sufficient wealth so as not to be tempted to steal? Would it be therefore, "expected" for an impoverished bank teller to steal because of their financial circumstances? Would we be willing to show leniency to a thief citing poverty as a motivational factor for their behavior?

What about a situation of war. I can think of no place so horrific as a battleground so would it not be "expected" for a soldier to disregard his responsibility and desert, leaving his fellow soldiers to fight? There are countless more examples.

The point is that we are all faced with circumstances which could be used as excuses. Are we okay with that?

If a soldier can stand in the face of abhorrent conditions and fight for what is true and right and honorable should not a man or woman, when faced with marital issues, be able to stay true and display honor? How can we expect so much from others and yet so little from ourselves?

A solemn vow should not be taken lightly and no excuse is acceptable for compromising one's integrity. I feel your wife should be made to see and feel the damage she has wrought and forced to remedy it by all involved but I live in a bygone mindset wherein people should be held accountable for their actions. And what of you? Your wife has broken her honor, will you? You vowed to love, honor and cherish, or something to that effect, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, till death do you part. Did you mean it?

You are experiencing the "worse" right now. What your wife has done is despicable. What will you do? Your wife has obviously not had the discipline necessary to develop the necessary skill set for marriage so should she be discarded? That is your call and your decision to make but simply remember that your family is a microcosm of society. How many can be discarded before society is no longer viable?

Please take my thoughts for what they are, use what you feel may have value and discard the rest. Good fortune to you and your family.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

adriana said:


> You don't have to stay married to her.... just like I didn't.
> 
> I filed for a divorce 4 days after the DD and never looked back. It was such a liberating feeling when I was walking out of my attorney office. My divorce was final in April 2014 and I haven't even once questioned my decision despite that we had a very good marriage.
> 
> Pulling the plug was the best decision I could have made.... there is absolutely no guestion about it in my mind.


What gave you such strength?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

So what happens when he DNA's the kid(s) and finds out they aren't his? 

That has to be WORSE then any physical betrayal. Does he walk away from the only father his kid(s) have ever known? Does he continue to see them and fulfill his destiny as cuckold? 

I honestly don't even know what I would do if that happened..... Women who knowingly do that to a men are sick twisted people.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

VeryHurt said:


> What gave you such strength?


Probably the same thing that allows other people the strength to recover their marriages; her convictions.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OP, while what I have to say below seems directed at NoChoice it is actually a rebuttal I present to you for your consideration.



NoChoice said:


> Society.
> 
> OP, I have reflected on this question and your situation and am greatly saddened by it all. From your other thread it seems things have grown steadily worse over the last couple of days and it appears that your marriage may be over. This trend is very troubling.
> 
> As a culture, we have become so superficial and so self centered that I fear soon there will cease to exist sufficient empathy and accountability to sustain even a modicum of society. A family is really nothing more than a mini society and can be very much looked at as a precursor to evolving societal trends. In other words, as the family goes, so goes society.


There has always been a tendency to romanticize the past but the truth is that the past was never as glorious as it has always been painted out to be.



> This alarming disregard for the sanctity of marriage, not as some religious edict, although it is that, but rather as an example of one's commitment and dedication to something larger and more important than oneself is pointing the way to the future of our society. A marriage is a sacrifice of one's self to a greater good, the family. It also serves to provide proof of one's honor and integrity demonstrated by living true to one's solemn vow.


The economies of the past were labor intensive and agrarian. Marriage was both a religious and business arrangement. The couples who got married did so under arrangements between the couples two families, and not because of any romantic love entanglement between the couple. In some cultures, the family of the future wife, had to financially compensate the family of the future husband prior to the wedding taking place.

Couples stayed together because of economic conditions not because of something "larger and more important than oneself. The sacrifice was born out of necessity rather than honor and integrity. In fact, many husbands abandoned their wives and children to a life of poverty and squalor, when they became entangled with younger and prettier women. Not much honor and integrity there.



> There has been some debate as to the conditions under which individuals are expected to keep their word and I find this also troubling. Life is replete with extenuating circumstances which can be conveniently used to explain all forms of deviant behavior but in the end, is it not the responsibility of the individual to self govern and practice self control?
> 
> For instance, is a bank teller expected to be honest only if they have sufficient wealth so as not to be tempted to steal? Would it be therefore, "expected" for an impoverished bank teller to steal because of their financial circumstances? Would we be willing to show leniency to a thief citing poverty as a motivational factor for their behavior?


Yes, yes and "it depends on the discretionary sentencing powers of the judge".

The first two are very reminiscent of folks tried and found guilty of espionage. A general profile of these individuals showed them to have something in common and that is that they were living way beyond their means prior to taking money from foreign government agencies. For this reason a thorough background check is performed on individuals seeking employment where they may come in contact with highly classified information. This background check includes the individual's financial health which will either show investigators whether him/her to be a low or high risk for espionage recruit. 




> What about a situation of war. I can think of no place so horrific as a battleground so would it not be "expected" for a soldier to disregard his responsibility and desert, leaving his fellow soldiers to fight? There are countless more examples.
> 
> The point is that we are all faced with circumstances which could be used as excuses. Are we okay with that?
> 
> If a soldier can stand in the face of abhorrent conditions and fight for what is true and right and honorable should not a man or woman, when faced with marital issues, be able to stay true and display honor? How can we expect so much from others and yet so little from ourselves?


There have been soldiers who were on the brink of a mental breakdown but who were ignored by their superiors because their responsibilities trumped their issues. Some of these soldiers snapped and went on not only to kill non combatants but also fellow soldiers. So if a soldier were to suddenly turn on his fellow soldiers and start firing at them, are they supposed to do nothing in return all because of a vow they made to each other? Are we okay with that?



> A solemn vow should not be taken lightly and no excuse is acceptable for compromising one's integrity. I feel your wife should be made to see and feel the damage she has wrought and forced to remedy it by all involved but I live in a bygone mindset wherein people should be held accountable for their actions. And what of you? Your wife has broken her honor, will you? You vowed to love, honor and cherish, or something to that effect, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, till death do you part. Did you mean it?


I may be missing something here so please feel free to clarify the following. How can consequences, of any meaning, be brought down to the betrayer if they contradict the "sacred vows"?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

NoChoice,

I agreed with almost every point you made.

Except at the end where you were haranguing Equinox about whether he was a man of his words to HIS vows...it sounded like you were suggesting if he chooses to D his WW he is failing to keep his own word.

He is indeed in a 'worse' phase of his M...but that is directly the result of his WW breaking the vow to 'forsake all others'...in essence the bond of vows is shattered and no more.

What he is dealing with is the one case where EVERY religious creed allows for divorce....WITHOUT recompense or shame for breaking one's own vows....and this includes Christianity which has the strictest prohibitions against D of all the major religions of the world.

Equinox does not need to be shamed for considering his M over....his WW ended it when she broke her vows. 

And as far as the analogy of a family with the larger society goes, I agree with the points you make....but I would add this.

NO society tolerates traitors or forgives them....h*ll it is one of the few federal crimes a person can actually be EXECUTED for, and at the very least it will result in denaturalization...another name for loss of citizenship, ie membership, in the society.

Why should the mini-society of a family be any different?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Dogbert said:


> I may be missing something here so please feel free to clarify the following. How can consequences, of any meaning, be brought down to the betrayer if they contradict the "sacred vows"?


By forcing them to face and feel them by any and all involved and have it negatively impact every aspect of their life. Perhaps make it a felony or capital offense, as shooting other soldiers is. How else will the child learn if they are not taught discipline and integrity in their youth?



Dyokemm said:


> NO society tolerates traitors or forgives them....h*ll it is one of the few federal crimes a person can actually be EXECUTED for, and at the very least it will result in denaturalization...another name for loss of citizenship, ie membership, in the society.
> 
> Why should the mini-society of a family be any different?


It should not be. However, we not only tolerate our "traitors" but actually turn them back out into society to continue their wayward behavior.


Should not each of us be held accountable for our actions and if not, who among us shall be exempt?

My post was not directed as condemnation to the OP. However, he made a conscious decision to wed this woman and vowed accordingly. I merely posit that if his wife is not made to feel, in whatever way is applicable to her, what she has done, then the cycle perpetuates. I fear this road leads to ultimate demise.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Equinox12 said:


> I wanted to start a new thread to ask what the reasons are people choose to stay in a relationship after exposing infidelity.
> 
> I'm successful, attractive, a dedicated and loving parent. What should I consider as a reason to put up with this?
> 
> ...



A very difficult question. A lot depends on the reasons behind the infidelity, it always takes to tango as they say. Although there are circumstances where the WS is so self-centred and a serial cheater that hopes of them changing is minimal.
In the marriage after cheating there's so much pain, baggage, and a mountain of hurt to heal. 
But it is possible to come back heal and recover once the trust is broken. If the WS is genuine and remorseful then there is a good chance that your marriage can only go up from there. If the WS is ready and willing to change then there is less chance of them cheating again. They will be less vulnerable to that outcome compared with someone who has never been through it. You both need professional help to get through it though.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"However, he made a conscious decision to wed this woman and vowed accordingly."

Yes....but she broke the vows of the M...in essence freeing him from the responsibility to continue with them on his own part, even under the restrictions on justifiable D found in Christianity (as I said, by far the strictest).

I'm not being belligerent or sarcastic here....I really am confused as to what exactly you are trying to say to OP about the moral necessity of his own vows....made PRIOR to her destruction of the marital bond.

IMO....he owes her nothing in respect to his vows, and I would say this even if I were still religious (which I am not btw).

She lost all claims to his support, loyalty, and devotion when she chose to commit adultery....his vows are null and void if he so chooses, which apparently is the decision he has made.

Reminding him that at one time he made vows to her is only bound to bring up feelings of guilt in him for standing up for his own self-respect and honor.

I don't feel that is helpful or appropriate for a BS in this situation.

He is doing nothing wrong in kicking her to the curb for her disgusting betrayal.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

And I agree with you No Choice that our society today basically turns a blind eye towards 'traitors' of an individual nature...such as WS's.

But treason to the nation or major social institutions is still treated as one of the most despicable crimes, with appropriately harsh punishments.

Personally, I find the cognitive dissonance between how betrayal is treated based strictly on the size or importance of the 'victimized' institution or group very troubling....for marriages or families-nothing...for government agencies or corporations-harsh punishment (loss of careers, citizenship, possibly death).

After all....the NATURE of the offense is the same....the fact that one type of betrayal is basically excused is ridiculous.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Even if a WS is remorseful and busting his/her a$$, the BS may not be in any condition to endure 2-5 years of Hell to personally recover. And just like there are people who survive a heart attack, there are many more who don't.


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## princevinco (Jul 7, 2014)

Infidelity should never be the end of the road for your marriage. What if you are the one that got involved? Try to find out the reasons of what made him/her get involved as he or she would have been drugged, charmed or seduced.
Realize that a man/woman who is interested and desperate could go at any length to snatch your husband/wife from you by seducing him/her.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Dogbert said:


> Even if a WS is remorseful and busting his/her a$$, the BS may not be in any condition to endure 2-5 years of Hell to personally recover. And just like there are people who survive a heart attack, there are many more who don't.


True, but surviving a divorce is no picnic either and has ramifications not just for the couple but for the kids too.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

aine said:


> True, but surviving a divorce is no picnic either and has ramifications not just for the couple but for the kids too.


That should have been taken into consideration by the WS before he/she succumbed to the affair. To have the WS say to the BS "But think about the kids" to keep her/him from ending the marriage, is the epitome of hypocrisy. The WS already ended the marriage, the BS is simply giving it its proper burial.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> "However, he made a conscious decision to wed this woman and vowed accordingly."
> 
> Yes....but she broke the vows of the M...in essence freeing him from the responsibility to continue with them on his own part, even under the restrictions on justifiable D found in Christianity (as I said, by far the strictest).
> 
> ...


That is your opinion and I respect it. Right and wrong can be quite subjective.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I agree he owes her nothing. My opinion was not related to what he owes her but rather what he "owes" society, his family and himself."

It's OK that we disagree to some extent No Choice....I certainly don't find those with different views offensive at all.

I appreciate you sharing your views with me and the rest of the board,

I see the duties that Equinox owes those you named as this:

Society- 

All he owes society is to continue to live up to his side of the social contract...ie to not injure other members of the society that have done him no wrong....some people may feel called to sacrifice more to society, but that is their choice.

The only 'duty' is to live by the rules, mores, and laws that our society expects of all members.

Family-

He owes his kids the best family situation to be raised in.

And that is NOT necessarily a M with both parents together.

If the M is broken and there is no forgiveness or recovery possible, then staying M is not in the children's best interest....trust me, my maternal grandfather did this and it created more pain and dysfunction for his kids/grandkids.....he should have divorced my despicable grandmother.

Himself-

Well I think he has decided this question already....he knows he deserves better than a traitorous WW....he has apparently decided that his own honor and self-respect are worth more than any feelings of love and affection he still retains for his WW.

I certainly won't question this very personal choice.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Infidelity should never be the end of the road for your marriage. What if you are the one that got involved? Try to find out the reasons of what made him/her get involved as he or she would have been drugged, charmed or seduced.
Realize that a man/woman who is interested and desperate could go at any length to snatch your husband/wife from you by seducing him/her."

prince,

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions.

However, I have to say I disagree on every point you made above.

Infidelity is a completely acceptable reason to end a M....no one has to tolerate a traitor.

And while POS AP's are trash that deserve severe consequences from a BS IMO, this in no way makes the WS some type of passive victim in the A, somehow unwillingly pulled into the A by the conniving AP.

And any excuses they throw out to justify their betrayal are pure blameshifting bullsh*t..


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## Equinox12 (Mar 10, 2015)

Thank you for this. 

The central theme of your post is the devolution of society, but I if anything I believe infidelity has DECREASED over time. Before marriage for love was the standard it is now in the western world, affairs were a much more common thing. 

As for what I'm going to do, well, I just don't know yet. If I am confident that this won't happen again I will seriously consider R. If not I don't have much choice but to walk away. 




NoChoice said:


> Society.
> 
> OP, I have reflected on this question and your situation and am greatly saddened by it all. From your other thread it seems things have grown steadily worse over the last couple of days and it appears that your marriage may be over. This trend is very troubling.
> 
> ...


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Peer pressure I think. I wanted out.. wish I'd gotten out on occasion. But everyone kept saying. "Give him one more chance. He's broken! He's changed. We can tell. He's going to be a better husband."

At that time I was soooo bitter and angry I wasn't thinking straight and wanted out... they played on that too. I wasn't thinking straight... I needed to give him some time to prove it. 

Only thing I don't regret is my kids. After the MC told us to have kids so he wouldn't feel so bored in our relationship, we did so. So that's all that's come out of this marriage that I'd want to keep.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KimatraAKM said:


> Peer pressure I think. I wanted out.. wish I'd gotten out on occasion. But everyone kept saying. "Give him one more chance. He's broken! He's changed. We can tell. He's going to be a better husband."
> 
> At that time I was soooo bitter and angry I wasn't thinking straight and wanted out... they played on that too. I wasn't thinking straight... I needed to give him some time to prove it.
> 
> Only thing I don't regret is my kids. *After the MC told us to have kids so he wouldn't feel so bored in our relationship, we did so.* So that's all that's come out of this marriage that I'd want to keep.


What the f*ck...?!?


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> What the f*ck...?!?


Agreed.... she also suggested he take up doing table puzzles and crossword puzzles to keep himself from straying...


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Why stay?:scratchhead: 

Wrong question. How fast can you get out? 

My story is a bit worse than yours; but, I don't see true remorse in you posts. I would try and salvage your life and move on.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

lots of remorse is actually regret getting caught. disguised as remorse to cake eat for another or that last? chance.

a cheat in my book immediately does not belong to or with me.

it is a willful action planned in advance. deception and lies are normal.

live, learn, forgive, understand all just fine with me. but the WS is history. same expectations for myself.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Equinox12 said:


> Thank you for this.
> 
> The central theme of your post is the devolution of society, but I if anything I believe infidelity has DECREASED over time. Before marriage for love was the standard it is now in the western world, affairs were a much more common thing.
> 
> As for what I'm going to do, well, I just don't know yet. If I am confident that this won't happen again I will seriously consider R. If not I don't have much choice but to walk away.


OP,
please understand I am in no way critical of you for your thoughts, feelings or actions, whatever they are now or may be at some future point. I haven't the right nor authority to be such. I understand the devastation that betrayal wreaks.

Your question stirred deep concerns in me and I was reflecting more on societal behavior as a whole more so than on your specific instance. As I peruse these threads and read the many stories of betrayals and the deep wounds that they inflict, I cannot help but consider where we, as a people, are headed. Your WW, along with countless others here, obviously does not possess the cognitive process necessary to understand the intricate tapestry of family and the role she plays in it and this I find very troubling.

If we cannot even see the larger picture within our own families and the importance of our position therein, how possibly can we understand the macrocosm of society? An individual thread cannot make a fabric but rather it requires many threads being interwoven, each dependent on the other, to make a strong, resilient cloth. A single thread can be removed from the cloth and the cloth remains viable but if enough threads are unraveled, then the cloth literally disintegrates.

This is my concern and it is quite unsettling. Instead of advancing as a people, humanity seems to be coming apart at the seams, more concerned with ourselves individually than with the human race as a whole. This was the inducement for my initial post and fundamentally my issue is to what extent are we responsible to the members of our society that, for whatever reason, do not possess the cognitive ability to assimilate into a familial structure? Your question forced me to examine my own thoughts on this and reflect thereon. There was no coercion intended. We must all deal with our issues in a way that best suits our needs, I merely pondered how society was integrated into that thought process. I wish you and your family good fortune.


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## Just-Starting0ut (Mar 19, 2015)

In my opinion, if there was ever a reason to get married in the first place, there had to be at least some love there. It tends to be harder for men to forgive than women, but I believe everyone has weaknesses and that that part of the human experience is covered by "in sickness or in health". Did you catch her or did she confess? Was it a one time thing or did it go for a number days/months/years etc.? There are a lot of different things to be considered. If she says she is sorry, I think (though I know it's hard to) you should muster up any trust you used to have and at least ask her anything and everything that you want to know. If she agrees to tell you everything no matter how bad it hurts, I think its sincere and that she deserves another chance. On the other hand, I think if she says "we should just forget about it" or "I'd rather pretend it never happened" or along similar lines, I think she feels bad for hurting you but that it will happen again or that she isn't necessarily sorry for doing it. Asking questions is what helped me cope with my husbands infidelity, and now we couldn't be stronger or happier. I'm not saying it's the best option, because I don't know the entire situation, but it worked for my marriage so it has to work sometimes. Best of luck!


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

*



Why Stay After Infidelity

Click to expand...

*You are an intelligent man so make a list of your priorities and how much admiration, respect, trust, and loyalty that she has for you and how much you can have for her.

After you study your list enough that you are satisfied that you have come to a conclusion then ask one last question. That question is:

*Are you better off with her or without her? *

Your wife did not look out for you but instead replaced and rejected you for another man. That is one of the worst killers of love, trust, admiration, respect, and loyalty in relationships. Since you know that she did not have your best interest at heart you are forced to look out for yourself without a whole lot of consideration of her. Your trust in her has been severely damaged and may never return.

However, if you are better off with her then do what is best for you


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