# Found proof of affair



## Chicagohusband2020

Hi all,

About 6 Weeks back I got the ILYBINILWY from my wife. I was shocked and floored. We have been together for 16 years with no kids. For the last three weeks, I tried to make myself better,
More importantly, he did nice stuff. It didn’t really change my wife’s perspective or feelings at all. She claimed that I was too distant, didn’t like doing what she liked, and laid a lot of things I did wrong on me. I read it. I worked on it. I acknowledged those things. I even researched marriage counseling.

She said she wanted to move out and have some space. I begged her that it was not the right thing to do for us. I really stood back and looked through the relationship from 2500 feet. And things were not adding up.

I did a little sniping and found she had been having an affair with a work colleague on mutual work trips for about a year. I have some texts discussing him among friends. No hard evidence.

When I confronted her about OM, she denied ever cheating on me or having an emotional affair.

You can tell by her attitude after being confirmed that she is sunken, riddled with guilt.

I’m going to contact a lawyer tomorrow. I cannot live with the betrayal. Do the 180.

Any other support is appreciated.


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## Tilted 1

Your doing exactly what needs to be done. And cheaters never tell the truth. Even if you had in print and a movie. And once you receive the ILYBNILWY it's done. Your way ahead of the game. Good for you! Lawyer up only give what you must, do not take her back if she tries to come back if she fails. Do find out more and use that info to get the best divorce deal. Once done go nuclear and tell everyone even her employment, and informed the other betrayed spouse. 

And her family as she will rewrite your marital history. In a attempt to save face because she caused the divorce.


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## jlg07

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> about 6 Weeks back I got the ILYBINILWY from my wife. I was shocked floored. We have been together for 16 years no kids. For the last three weeks I tried to make myself better,
> More appealing, did nice stuff. It didn’t really change my wife’s perspective or feelings at all. She claimed that i was too distant, didn’t like doing what she liked, laid a lot of things I did wrong on me. I read I worked on it. I acknowledged those things. I even research marriage counseling
> This is called the "pick me" dance. You think this is YOUR fault and you jump through hoops. The reality is, she is trying to justify her affair. It is YOUR fault (in her mind) that drove her to do this. I hope you realize it has NOTHING to do with you. The cheating is 100% on her
> 
> She said she wanted to move out and have some space. I begged her that it was not the right thing to do for us.
> I really stood back and looked through the relationship from 2500 feet. And things were not adding up.
> This is so she can bang her AP without fear of getting caught by you. GREAT that you went with your gut feeling that it wasn't truthful.
> 
> I did a little sniping and found she has been in an affair with a work college on mutual work trips for about a year. Ihave some textsdiscussing him between friends. No hard evidence.
> Keep whatever you found in a safe place. You may need it later.
> 
> I confronted her about OM, she denied ever Cheating on me or having an emotional affair
> 
> You can tell by her attitude after being confirmed she is sunken, riddled with guilt
> 
> I’m going to contact a lawyer tomorrow. I cannot live with the betrayal. Do the 180
> 
> any other support is appreciated


Find out if this co-worker is married. Expose this to his wife/gf. Expose this to family -- she WILL try to re-write your marital history to make this seem like YOU are a monster, and SHE didn't do anything with this guy until AFTER she moved out.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Tilted 1 said:


> Your doing exactly what needs to be done. And cheaters never tell the truth. Even if you had in print and a movie. And once you receive the ILYBNILWY it's done. Your way ahead of the game. Good for you! Lawyer up only give what you must, do not take her back if she tries to come back if she fails. Do find out more and use that info to get the best divorce deal. Once done go nuclear and tell everyone even her employment, and informed the other betrayed spouse.
> 
> And her family as she will rewrite your marital history. In a attempt to save face because she caused the divorce.


Wait until the divorce is final to tell
Mutual friends and her family? I want to do it before she beats me to it


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## Chicagohusband2020

Tilted 1 said:


> Your doing exactly what needs to be done. And cheaters never tell the truth. Even if you had in print and a movie. And once you receive the ILYBNILWY it's done. Your way ahead of the game. Good for you! Lawyer up only give what you must, do not take her back if she tries to come back if she fails. Do find out more and use that info to get the best divorce deal. Once done go nuclear and tell everyone even her employment, and informed the other betrayed spouse.
> 
> And her family as she will rewrite your marital history. In a attempt to save face because she caused the divorce.


Would you suggest a VAR? I do not have access to cell.


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## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Wait until the divorce is final to tell
> Mutual friends and her family? I want to do it before she beats me to it


If there is any benefit to you wait if not go nuclear.


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## Tilted 1

You have all the proof you need already. But what difference will it make. The ILYBNILWY is all the proof you need. But does your country need more that would benefit you?


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## colingrant

> emotional affair


It's physical. Adults who travel together for work, and attracted to one another have sex.


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> about 6 Weeks back I got the ILYBINILWY from my wife. I was shocked floored. We have been together for 16 years no kids. For the last three weeks I tried to make myself better,
> More appealing, did nice stuff. It didn’t really change my wife’s perspective or feelings at all. She claimed that i was too distant, didn’t like doing what she liked, laid a lot of things I did wrong on me. I read I worked on it. I acknowledged those things. I even research marriage counseling
> 
> *She said she wanted to move out and have some space.* I begged her that it was not the right thing to do for us.
> I really stood back and looked through the relationship from 2500 feet. And things were not adding up.
> 
> I did a little sniping and found she has been in an affair with a work college on mutual work trips for about a year. Ihave some textsdiscussing him between friends. No hard evidence.
> 
> I confronted her about OM, she denied ever Cheating on me or having an emotional affair
> 
> You can tell by her attitude after being confirmed she is sunken, riddled with guilt
> 
> I’m going to contact a lawyer tomorrow. I cannot live with the betrayal. Do the 180
> 
> any other support is appreciated


She wants separation to spend more time and focus with her affair partner. The one thing all cheaters have in common is they lie a lot. That’s all you’re getting.

You should inform the other mans wife. She is probably going through hell as well.

If the texts messages confirm the affair that’s all you need. Send the evidence to his wife.

Infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving. A lot upfront just want them back without thinking about what they’d be getting back. For a lot it’ll always be the elephant in the room.

No kids I’d file and move on with my life. You’ll never be able to trust her again anyway.


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## Marc878

Definitely stop with the infamous “pick me dance”. All that does is lower your status. Nicing them Back does the same thing.

Move her out of your bedroom and it would be advisable to get STD testing ASAP. You don’t know who or where her other man has been with. I’d doubt your wife is the only one.

You can bank this is a full blown sexual affair.

Try and stay out of denial. That will only get you an extended stay in limbo.

What you are seeing unfortunately is pretty typical. Shes just your very typical, lying cheater. Nothing special about her or this at all. The sooner you cut contact you'll get more clarity and see reality.

Get strong and stay there. You will get through this better if you do.

Sorry you’re here. Keep posting you’ll need the support.


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## skerzoid

Some ideas:


 STD EXAM!
Lawyer UP! I would have her served at work. 
No Sex with her. It will be viewed by a judge as forgiveness.
180 Religiously 
Individual Counseling for Yourself.
You are showing Strength, Courage, and Decisive Action. Keep it up. Let her remember you that way.


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## skerzoid

Here is a link for the "180"






The 180 for Hurt Spouses


The 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting , that will help your spouse to see you moving forw...




healinginfidelity.blogspot.com


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## VladDracul

Take my word for it Chicago, before she started "taking up with another man", she had already lost major romantic interest in you. Once that happens, they start looking for someone to fill the void and her interest in you will never return to a level you'll find satisfactory. If you manage to reconcile, as they say, you'll likely be back as yet another thread starter with, "Little sex since reconciliation".
Ditch the chick and move on. Upgraded replacements are not that hard to come by.


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I did a little sniping and found she has been in an affair with a work college on mutual work trips for about a year. *Ihave some textsdiscussing him between friends.* No hard evidence.


Cut those friends out of your life too. They are snakes.


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## Chicagohusband2020

These are the texts, let me know if I am jumping to conclusions 

W “This is so hard”

W” I’ve even been distancing myself from
OM to try and not complicate my feelings more, and it doesn’t change how I feel”

friend “blah blah you need space”

I have a text from OM the other night “you wanted a text. did you fall asleep?”

onLy text in thread as she must be deleting them

text from same as before Friend part of longer message
“I had no idea you were not happy in your marraige. I had no idea you were talking to another man”

The talking is what got me. Maybe it is just talking.

I also have photo of them from an event my wife never told me About. During a work trip.

I think I have Substantial evidence
Of at least an emotional Affair and like Many have said likely physical 

Not sure if I should keep digging or just get it over with


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## Marc878

If it’s an emotional affair with contact it’s always sexual too. Especially if they are away on business trips together. Plus she lied about “not even an emotional affair too” didn’t she.

Most like you want absolute proof but that’s hard to get in a workplace affair. This isn’t a court of law. You only need proof for you.

However, a voice activated recorder in her car or a PI if you have the funds is your best bet. If that’s what you want/need keep your mouth shut. You’ve already tipped her off so she’ll be more careful now and go deeper underground.

Her wanting the separation is right out of the cheaters script. That’s only for her to focus and spend time with him with you out of the way. This happens a lot. You see it all the time.

You’d be better off to file rather than do a separation. Now that you know what it’s for.


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## Marc878

Her wanting a separation means she’s already made the choice of who she’s picking. It’s om not you.

Could you tell anything from the picture? We’re they close, etc? Not that it matters much.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Marc878 said:


> Her wanting a separation means she’s already made the choice of who she’s picking. It’s om not you.
> 
> Could you tell anything from the picture? We’re they close, etc? Not that it matters much.


On an amusement park ride together.
My wife would always Tell me
If she did something like an amusement park on a work trip. But not mention of this at all. I look forward to showing it to her


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> These are the texts, let me know if I am jumping to conclusions
> 
> W “This is so hard”
> 
> W” I’ve even been distancing myself from
> OM to try and not complicate my feelings more, and it doesn’t change how I feel”
> 
> friend “blah blah you need space”
> 
> *At least an emotional affair*
> 
> I have a text from OM the other night “you wanted a text. did you fall asleep?”
> 
> *They are in communication and it’s mutual sounds like*
> 
> onLy text in thread as she must be deleting them
> 
> text from same as before Friend part of longer message
> “I had no idea you were not happy in your marraige. I had no idea you were talking to another man”
> 
> *Shes probably telling her friend only so much but I doubt the full truth. No cheater wants to admit what they’ve been up to.*
> 
> The talking is what got me. Maybe it is just talking.
> 
> I also have photo of them from an event my wife never told me About. During a work trip.
> 
> *If it’s secretive she’s in deep. Sorry man, no one deserves this*
> 
> I think I have Substantial evidence
> Of at least an emotional Affair and like Many have said likely physical
> 
> Not sure if I should keep digging or just get it over with


Get strong stay there. Talk won’t get you anything in these situation. She’s not gonna listen to you.
Only your actions will count for much. Most in your situation just can’t believe it so they wallow for an extended period of time. Not a good place to be in.

The thing is you are the only one that can keep yourself in this.


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> On an amusement park ride together.
> My wife would always Tell me
> If she did something like an amusement park on a work trip. But not mention of this at all. I look forward to showing it to her


All you’ll do is tip her off even more. She’ll just lie about it.

Bud, she knows she’s cheating. You don’t need to convince her of that.


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## Marc878

Manipulation techniques don’t work well You’ll find. Look at what she’s doing currently. Lying and hiding. They work together so she’s with him at least 8 hours a day. If they have contact it won’t end.

If you wanted to try and save the marriage exposure to his wife or their work is about your only option but you need more concrete evidence for that. She’ll be a lot smarter now so....

Plus she’d have to find another job but the capability is there. There will always be another guy around.

You have some deep thinking to do.


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## Marc878

What you’re going through isn’t fair but that won’t change a thing. Just because you now know doesn’t mean she’ll stop either.

It sounds like it started as an EA but developed into a physical affair probably on their work trip which is why she wants a separation. I suspect she’s cut off sex with you too. That’s because she doesn’t want to cheat on her other man. Not uncommon. Sounds sick I know but....


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## Chicagohusband2020

He doesn’t seem to have a SO
They live thousands of miles apart. But work trips for project bring them goether even 8 weeks Or so.

It’s over no doubt. I would never be able to trust Again. Would just like a Smoking gun.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Marc878 said:


> What you’re going through isn’t fair but that won’t change a thing. Just because you now know doesn’t mean she’ll stop either.
> 
> It sounds like it started as an EA but developed into a physical affair probably on their work trip which is why she wants a separation. I suspect she’s cut off sex with you too. That’s because she doesn’t want to cheat on her other man. Not uncommon. Sounds sick I know but....


yep she sure has. Right when she told
Me ILYBNILWY. I begged and pleaded the first 4 weeks. But in the last couple days since finding out have given her 0 attention. Now she is asking me if we can have sex.


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> yep she sure has. Right when she told
> Me ILYBNILWY. I begged and pleaded the first 4 weeks. But in the last couple days since finding out have given her 0 attention. Now she is asking me if we can have sex.


Better get checked for STDs. Once trust is broken it’s tough to get back. You’re smart and I think you know enough. The thing is there’s nothing that says you won’t go through this same scenario again And this may not end with her OM either. Past history is the best predictor of the future.

No kids. Just let her go. Free yourself.

You could confront her with what you have and demand a polygrap. You’d only need 2 or 3 question.

1. Are you having an affair with OM?
2. Did you have sex with om?


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## Marc878

ILYBNILWY for the most part means she’s done. Believe her.

No way I’d go near her sexually.


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## Marc878

She’s wanting sex now to rugsweep this. Maybe regrets of getting caught. It’s a manipulation tactic on her part. Be smarter and don’t fall for it.

You don’t need her. She was only a want. I guarantee you this isn’t the end of the world. There are good women out there but you won’t find one tied down to this.


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## Marc878

The thing you need to understand. No contact is up to you not her. You don’t owe her anything.

If you don't cut the contact you’ll keep yourself in this. 

Id tell her she needs to move out. That’s what she wanted anyway right? Then just treat this as a business decision. Text or email business only. Never answer a phone call, etc.

If you want to move on that Is your best path.


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## Marc878

She’s a proven liar. Why listen to that crap?

If you waste your time/life it’s the one thing you can never get back.


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## BluesPower

Marc is right about everything he has said.

Dude, no kids, just move on. She has been screwing him every time they have gotten together. No Doubt...

DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER EVER AGAIN... for a lot of reasons, lots of courts see that as "Forgiveness" as it related to divorce.

She is lying to you about everything... You need to tell here to move out if she will, it will make it easier for you.

File ASAP, and start a new life...


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## MJJEAN

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> He doesn’t seem to have a SO
> They live thousands of miles apart. But work trips for project bring them goether even 8 weeks Or so.
> 
> It’s over no doubt. I would never be able to trust Again. Would just like a Smoking gun.


It was an emotional affair that got physical. As someone else mentioned, adults have sex. This isn't high school. You already have a smoking gun. You know she's involved with another man and she's told you she isn't in love with you anymore. What else do you need?

Also, "talking to" in my area means casually dating/screwing. Might be a regional thing, but you're in my general region, so.. yeah. Sorry, man.



Chicagohusband2020 said:


> yep she sure has. Right when she told
> Me ILYBNILWY. I begged and pleaded the first 4 weeks. But in the last couple days since finding out have given her 0 attention. Now she is asking me if we can have sex.


Of course she does! If the marriage ends she goes from 2 men to 1, or even possibly zero if OM decides he's not serious about her at all. She's hedging her bets. Honestly, I'd guess she never actually intended to leave the marriage, more like put it on hold until she decided between you. She's gone from 2 men giving her attention to 1 man far away and the other ignoring her. Poor muffin. So, to keep you hooked unless/until she makes a solid choice, which she cannot do without investigating things with OM, she will use hysterical bonding sex to keep you firlmy in place as Plan B.

Do NOT be Plan B. Just start the divorce process and don't look back.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Not sure if I should keep digging or just get it over with


What's the point? You know what she's doing and you've already decided to divorce her (excellent decision).

The one thing I do want to warn you about is to *not* go nuclear just YET. I say that because you want her EMPLOYED during the divorce process or God forbid her lawyer finds a way to tap you for alimony or a better settlement amount for her.

so don't do *anything* that could jeopardize hers and Romeo's jobs - just _yet_.


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## dreamer2017

Dear Chicago,

I'm sorry you are going through this and understand your pain. I would like to point out, each state has its own interpretation of the law when it involves divorce in relation to adultery and alimony. Some states will grant alimony to a spouse base on their ability to gain employment and their potential rate of pay. I've been in the law area for many years, if you have any questions please consult your attorney.

That being said; On a personal level, I would blow their world apart with total exposure. Also, read some of the threads on Surviving Infidelity

Best,
Dreamer


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## OutofRetirement

You don't have much proof. Basically what you have is circumstantial evidence.

The top sign of cheating is hiding/guarding the phone. Deleting texts. You've got that.

The second most common sign of cheating is changing in behavior. Cold, distant, emotionless, at best. Finding you annnoying, everything you say or do, literally sometimes just eating and breathing, annoys her about you. Obviously, she told I love you not in love with you out of the blue, she wants a separation out of the blue, no wanting to try marriage counseling first, you discovering messages that her friends are surprised your marriage is terrible (i.e., wife never complained about your marriage until now, when wife is ready to leave you and needs an explanation as to why) you finding an amusement park pic with another man which your wife would never keep from you something like that in the past, etc., etc., etc., a lot of circumstantial evidence. A story that doesn't make sense except if you imagine this whole cheating scenario.

You do know also that your wife has lied to you, deceived, and I am assuming, you can verify, she only deletes things about this other man, your wife is not normally a deleter of anything.

So you can be fairly assured that she is cheating on you as most of us would define cheating. Is it physical? Before I give my opinion, I would preface to say that cheating is a very predictable behavior. The cheater lies, deceives, guards the phone, deletes texts, blames the betrayed spouse even though in 16 years never had a real problem with it, wants to separate, I love you but not in love with you ... these are basic cheating behaviors that most "friend" affairs incllude - types of affairs with an ex-boyfriend, a co-worker, a neighbor, a teacher in the kid's school, a coach in the kid's sport team, a guy at the gym, etc.

In these cases, 98 percent it goes physical before the I love you but not in love with you and separation is rolled out. The denial of sex usually is after it goes physical in the affair. The cheater doesn't have desire for you, is getting it elsewhere, doesn't want to cheat on her other man - any number of reasons for that. As wife's friend said, wife needs to figure this out, needs space. Basically, wife has found another man who might make her happy like she's never been happy before, but she needs time to figure out what is best, new shiny or old reliable. New shiny looks really exiciting, butterflies in stomach effect gets her wetter than she's been in a long time, but what if new shiny isn't reliable, breaks down easily, turns out to be a lemon in the long haul. She'd like to get an extended test drive, not just the one hour at the dealer, but take it out for a week or two or month or two and see how new shiny really runs. If all is good, then she can get rid of old reliable, but not before. She still has some affection for old reliable, but she is really sick of the same old wear and tear, there has always been some faults in old reliable and sometimes you get annoyed with the little things that last a long time than a bigger issue in new shiny.

You may never know the full truth, but you can figure out that she didn't leave you without testing the other guy enough. I'd be shocked if she didn't have sex with him before telling you the I love you but not in love with you and asked for a separation.

As far as your wife and her friends being surprised. I think your wife's friends probably are moral, ethical people who look down upon cheating. They would not look well upon your wife if she cheated on you. So wife tells them the marriage is bad, has been bad, and she is getting support with another man, and she's starting to have feelings for him, and she can't help her feelings. She probably would lie to her friends, too, about the cheating if the friends disliked cheaters. My wife never told her friends she was cheating because they were against cheating. Frequently cheaters develop a new set of friends who are more amenable to cheating.

Your wife probably dislikes cheaters. Or she used to. And her and her friends were on the same value system. Now your wife is cheating, so she has to tell her friends that she separated first, then it really wasn't cheating. That would have been the next step, I guess. After she left that terrible marriage, this co-worker supported her and it turned to something else, something more.

Now from just the snippets you've caught there might be problems in paradise. Him telling her, you (wife) wanted a text, here it is, you must have fallen asleep, doesn't sound great. Wife got into this affair most likely because this dude was blowing smoke up her butt like 24/7, compliments up the gazoo, not I'm texting you because I have to because you said so, wife wants to hear from him I'm texting you because you are so hot and I am touching myself here and need to hear your voice you sexy thing.

Entrance wife's doubt, cue music of her wanting sex with you again to make sure her old reliable is still available in case new shiny turns out to be a lemon.


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## Openminded

No sex.


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## Marc878

Make no mistake the other man wouldn’t have been a problem if your wife hadn’t let him in. Although he’s a part she is the main problem/issue. She’s the betrayer.

Under the circumstances I’d let her be someone else’s problem. Not mine.


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## Yeswecan

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> These are the texts, let me know if I am jumping to conclusions
> 
> W “This is so hard”
> 
> W” I’ve even been distancing myself from
> OM to try and not complicate my feelings more, and it doesn’t change how I feel”
> 
> friend “blah blah you need space”
> 
> I have a text from OM the other night “you wanted a text. did you fall asleep?”
> 
> onLy text in thread as she must be deleting them
> 
> text from same as before Friend part of longer message
> “I had no idea you were not happy in your marraige. I had no idea you were talking to another man”
> 
> The talking is what got me. Maybe it is just talking.
> 
> I also have photo of them from an event my wife never told me About. During a work trip.
> 
> I think I have Substantial evidence
> Of at least an emotional Affair and like Many have said likely physical
> 
> Not sure if I should keep digging or just get it over with



Looks like enough evidence to me. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg my friend. Time to file.


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## 3Xnocharm

If you do social media, post the pic on your Facebook page and tag her.


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## Taxman

Me? First thing you do is end both of their careers. I have found this invaluable. I have been able to successfully defend against a raise in alimony due to loss of employment. That is the usual objection to ratting them out to their employer. Secondarily, I have had the affair partners lose most of their termination pay, as they were reimbursing their employer for amounts put on expense accounts while screwing around on employers' time. You will be surprised at how fast she is interested in reconciliation. Then you can dictate terms, if you so desire. I get some objections to suggesting this, however in over forty years doing this, the best results come from isolation of the participants. Exposure turns that sunny world of rainbows and unicorns into a steaming cauldron of bubbling fecal matter.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Thanks everyone for the posts and support. I am having a hard time dealing with the love is still have for her and being to hard On her for “circumstantial” evidence . But I am sticking to my guns.


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## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the posts and support. I am having a hard time dealing with the love is still have for her and being to hard On her for “circumstantial” evidence . But I am sticking to my guns.


Listen, you may not have the "smoking gun" that you might like, but make no mistake, she is having an affair. 

Yes, stick to your guns... Move on. Get out of this infidelity.


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> These are the texts, let me know if I am jumping to conclusions
> 
> W “This is so hard”
> 
> W” I’ve even been distancing myself from
> OM to try and not complicate my feelings more, and it doesn’t change how I feel”
> 
> friend “blah blah you need space”
> 
> I have a text from OM the other night “you wanted a text. did you fall asleep?”
> 
> onLy text in thread as she must be deleting them
> 
> text from same as before Friend part of longer message
> “I had no idea you were not happy in your marraige. I had no idea you were talking to another man”
> 
> The talking is what got me. Maybe it is just talking.
> 
> I also have photo of them from an event my wife never told me About. During a work trip.
> 
> I think I have Substantial evidence
> Of at least an emotional Affair and like Many have said likely physical
> 
> Not sure if I should keep digging or just get it over with


This is not an emotional affair. Stop using that language.

It's just an affair. Of course they've been getting together - you have a photo of it.

Assume it's a full blown affair and move forward accordingly.


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## Marc878

The worst thing you can do in these situations is nothing. It just keeps you stuck in limbo.

Cheaters take full advantage of betrayed spouses who want to believe them. Thus affair took planning, time and effort. It didn’t just happen.

I get you’re in shock but you are fairly sharp. You’ll get through this.


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the posts and support. I am having a hard time dealing with the love is still have for her and being to hard On her for “circumstantial” evidence . But I am sticking to my guns.


It's pretty smoking gun, man.

Besides, your wife doesn't want you and wants to leave. It's somewhat moot if she's been having sex with the guy.

It's over. Let go. Put your gloves up and start looking out for yourself. She is.


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## MattMatt

@Chicagohusband2020 You have had some good advice. People here have been where you are, so please keep coming back for advice and support.


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## OutofRetirement

I wrote circumstantial. Mostly that's all anybody gets. Jurors vote guilty every day on circumstantial evidence alone. Circumstantial is good evidence. It's just not proof like you have the gun or an eyewitness or a video or a confession.

Your wife has done what every cheater does. It's not like your wife did one or two things a cheater does. She did like a dozen or so. She checks off practically every box. So trust us, it's a full on affair. You can take that to the bank.

You want proof, get a private investigator. Then, it will be case closed, she won't go to court, she'll take the plea deal. As it stands now, her reputation is stopping her. She doesn't like cheaters, she's a moral person, maybe she even sings in the choir at church, so she can't come clean even with all the circumstantial evidence. Plus, her, and you, haven't read literally hundreds of infidelity and are kind of experts on identifying all the cheater signs. Listen, bank robbers all do the same behaviors too. Unless you deal with bank robbers frequently, you probably don't know what those signs all are. Same with cheaters. There are signs. If she had one of the signs, it could be many different things. Two signs, maybe there are other possibilities than cheating. But she's got so many signs she might as well be wearing a high school sports team jacket with "Cheaters" on the back of it and Class of "2020" on the arm.


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## Wolfman1968

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the posts and support. I am having a hard time dealing with the love is still have for her and being to hard On her for “circumstantial” evidence . But I am sticking to my guns.


You need to stick to your guns.

Dude, she'll try to use the remaining emotion you have for her against you. If you would read some of the other threads in this forum, you will find it is a common tactic. Don't fall for it.

Really. Don't fall for it. You have to know ahead of time she will try this, and mentally prepare yourself for it. That's the best defense against that ploy.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I think I have Substantial evidence
> Of at least an emotional Affair and like Many have said likely physical
> 
> Not sure if I should keep digging or just get it over with


She is cheating physically and emotionally. You know. Unless proof helps you in court, I can't see how it helps you other than your peace of mind. If you want to hear her admit, probably you have to show her proof. If you read these forums, you would see that most cheaters deny, deny, deny UNTIL you can actually show them the evidence and stick it in their face - like a text that says how wild the sex was, like a picture or video they saved from their trysts, like someone else sees them together at the hotel. Even then, sometimes they still hold onto the old "it's not like it looks like." There's the urban legend that one husband catches his wife coitus interruptus with other man in the marital bed and the wife yells out "it's not wha it looks like. OM is just a friend, we were having lunch, I dropped a plate of spaghetti all over me, went to take a shower, OM got worried and came to see if I was OK, I came out of the shower and tripped and fell on his penis. It was an accident, it just happened." Cheaters can always deny. But really most will admit if you have the proof, but most won't admit before then.

Most of us want them to at least admit it, but it's not as satisfying as you'd think, because then they still lie. "It was onlhy once and only started last week and he couldn't get it up so nothing really happened." Meanwhile have texts going back a year and the amusement park date was last summer and it's April of the following year now and they've been on overnight work hotel trips monthly since then.


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the posts and support. I am having a hard time dealing with the love is still have for her and being to hard On her for “circumstantial” evidence . But I am sticking to my guns.


Not uncommon. Your heart hasn’t caught up to what your brain is telling you. However, the heart or emotions will betray you in these circumstance. Get strong and stay there.

Rugsweeping haunt many later. Don’t be one of those guys.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

BluesPower said:


> Listen, you may not have the "smoking gun" that you might like, but make no mistake, she is having an affair.
> 
> Yes, stick to your guns... Move on. Get out of this infidelity.





Chicagohusband2020 said:


> yep she sure has. Right when she told
> Me ILYBNILWY. I begged and pleaded the first 4 weeks. But in the last couple days since finding out have given her 0 attention. Now she is asking me if we can have sex.


whatever the hell you do do not. I repeat do not have sex with her. That is like Muhammad Ali doing the old rope a dope to an opponent. 180 my good man, she is playing you.


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## Rubix Cubed

The only irrefutable 'smoking gun' is you walking in on them in the middle of schtupping each other. That's it. Nothing short of that is undeniable (Hell, they will even deny that) so quit looking for that and just file. Save yourself the pain.


----------



## not_the_other_woman

She does not deserve you. WALK AWAY


----------



## Buffer

Brother, do what you need to do. You don’t need evidence for a court of law, only what makes your mind up. She has crossed that boundary, chosen who she wants. 
Take the bull by the horns. Exspose this to all, HR, family and friends keep a VAR on you at all times. She will re write the marriage to suite her mind set. You don’t need her permission to tell. Cease all joint accounts, has she moved out? If so, she has abandoned the abode. 
Hard 180, get medical checked for STDs they didn’t practice safe sex. Exercise, drink water and talk to close friends. 
one day at a time. 
Buffer


----------



## arbitrator

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> about 6 Weeks back I got the ILYBINILWY from my wife. I was shocked floored. We have been together for 16 years no kids. For the last three weeks I tried to make myself better,
> More appealing, did nice stuff. It didn’t really change my wife’s perspective or feelings at all. She claimed that i was too distant, didn’t like doing what she liked, laid a lot of things I did wrong on me. I read I worked on it. I acknowledged those things. I even research marriage counseling
> 
> She said she wanted to move out and have some space. I begged her that it was not the right thing to do for us.
> I really stood back and looked through the relationship from 2500 feet. And things were not adding up.
> 
> I did a little sniping and found she has been in an affair with a work college on mutual work trips for about a year. Ihave some textsdiscussing him between friends. No hard evidence.
> 
> I confronted her about OM, she denied ever Cheating on me or having an emotional affair
> 
> You can tell by her attitude after being confirmed she is sunken, riddled with guilt
> 
> I’m going to contact a lawyer tomorrow. I cannot live with the betrayal. Do the 180
> 
> any other support is appreciated


*Lose her like a bad habit! 

But do have yourself medically checked out ASAP to insure that she hasn't casually passed on to you one of those "gifts that keeps on giving!"*


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## MattMatt

@ @Chicagohusband2020 There are occasions when the ILYBINILWY speech does not mean that the spouse is having an affair.

But when added to the other evidence that you have, the likelihood of this being so here are slim to say the least.


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## Chicagohusband2020

MattMatt said:


> @ @Chicagohusband2020 There are occasions when the ILYBINILWY speech does not mean that the spouse is having an affair.
> 
> But when added to the other evidence that you have, the likelihood of this being so here are slim to say the least.


thanks. The last two days I have done the 180 it’s a complete shift for her. Acting like a
Sad puppy dog, constantly trying to connect. Probabaky now I was acting on the weeks prior. Not sure if this is a further sign of guilt??


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Marc878 said:


> Not uncommon. Your heart hasn’t caught up to what your brain is telling you. However, the heart or emotions will betray you in these circumstance. Get strong and stay there.
> 
> Rugsweeping haunt many later. Don’t be one of those guys.


thanks. My head and heart are defiantly in two different places. I may need to go see someone to talk. My heart breaks for what my head says I need to do


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## jlg07

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thanks. The last two days I have done the 180 it’s a complete shift for her. Acting like a
> Sad puppy dog, constantly trying to connect. Probabaky now I was acting on the weeks prior. Not sure if this is a further sign of guilt??


It's probably NOT guilt -- it's probably her trying to play you so that her fun can continue...


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thanks. The last two days I have done the 180 it’s a complete shift for her. Acting like a
> Sad puppy dog, constantly trying to connect. Probabaky now I was acting on the weeks prior. Not sure if this is a further sign of guilt??


Nah, it's just a test driven by a bit of panic. If you change course now, she'll know it was all a bluff, and it will be even harder to 180 later.

All she wants to make sure is that she can have her sexyplaytime side fun and you'll still welcome her back with open arms if she needs it.


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## Yeswecan

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thanks. The last two days I have done the 180 it’s a complete shift for her. Acting like a
> Sad puppy dog, constantly trying to connect. Probabaky now I was acting on the weeks prior. Not sure if this is a further sign of guilt??


Your WW is probably working on survival mode. Looking for sympathy.


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## Robert22205

At some point after failing to make you feel sorry for her (as if she's the victim), she'll love bomb you in an attempt to manipulate you. There's nothing for you to do to restore trust. It's all on her at this point. 

You've received good advice from people that walked this path before you. Stay strong. Distance yourself while you heal and only discuss the logistics relating to the kids.

If you want advice on how to respond to specific things she says or does ... just ask.


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## Tilted 1

This shows your strength now!!, and poor little ole me don't like it.


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## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thanks. The last two days I have done the 180 it’s a complete shift for her. Acting like a
> Sad puppy dog, constantly trying to connect. Probabably how I was acting on the weeks prior. Not sure if this is a further sign of guilt??


Not guilt, loss of what she had. You were a sure thing, new guy is not.

If the relationship is not good, you'd think she'd be OK with no romantic interest for a while. But cheaters usually don't leave number one until number two is lined up.


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thanks. My head and heart are defiantly in two different places. I may need to go see someone to talk. My heart breaks for what my head says I need to do


The problem is when you let your heart lead in these circumstances you’re likely to get a repeat.

In her mind she thinks you’re lucky to have her so she can step out and come back as she chooses.

Don’t think this scenario can’t or won’t happen again. You know the capability is there.


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## turnera

So what are you going to do? The longer you stay in limbo, the less control you have.


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## Chicagohusband2020

turnera said:


> So what are you going to do? The longer you stay in limbo, the less control you have.


We had an emotional talk this morning. She is going to move out for a period of weeks while we Both figure Out what we want. I mentioned that I was now at the same
Place she was a month ago, wanting space to figure out the relationship.

she was resistant to leaving and gave many reasons why she couldn’t. But I stuck to my guns and has an answer for every excuse.

I know this goes against some of the advice I have received on here. But I do want to use the time apart to really think about what I want. I don’t want to do anything that I cannot turn back on. My plan is evaluate if I could ever trust again. If I think after reflection I want to R ask her again and give her a chance to be honest.

maybe Over the next few weeks I will change my mind on that. But I know I did contribute to the affair but that is by no means a reason to have one

any advise on behavior while sepersted for the next few weeks


----------



## jlg07

So, if she said ILYBNILWY, WHY is she so upset that you have asked her to leave? SHE had already left the relationship. She told YOU she wanted to leave originally, no?
You DO KNOW that she will take advantage of moving out to continue the affair, so just realize that. If she leaves, you MAY want to get a PI to watch just to get whatever additional proof you need of the affair. 
Do you have a plan from your lawyer as to how to move ahead with finances/child custody, etc.?
This does NOT MEAN you have to put the D in motion -- but you SHOULD KNOW what could be the possible solution there.

And NO YOU DID NOT contribute to and affair -- that is 100% on HER. She could have D you before any of that happened. If she has been having this for a year with this work colleague, SHE abandoned the relationship.


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## BluesPower

She will be trying out her new boy friend while you mope around the house. You will not listen to what people are telling you. 

OK, you do what you want. How about you tell her no dating while you are apart and then put a PI on her. 

That will show you what is doing on in about 3 days or less. 

I am sorry this is happening. I wish you well....


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## mickybill

IIRC the boyfriend live 1000 miles away? Does she have the $$ to visit him, or is it with work?
I think if you are the one who brought up her moving out, it is a very strong step forward. If she suggested it she may be looking for some freedom to explore.
Right now she is trying to figure her next move. She had 2 guys interested in her and now she may have 1. 
If the BF liked her as a part time sidepiece he may need to readjust her expectations if she thinks they will be together full time. He may have other women in his life.
Her mopiness is a reflection of her loss of control.

What is she doing to prove to you that she is worth it?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> My plan is evaluate if I could ever trust again. If I think after reflection I want to R ask her again and give her a chance to be honest.


Separation is a non-issue. She is going to cheat on you more easily separated, but it's not like she can't cheat on you when she lives with you. She's been doing cheating just fine for at least a year.

Tell wife that you need her to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. There will be no staying together without it. 

Then separate or not. I don't think it matters. Either your wife is going to end the affair and tell you the truth, or not. 

Your wife is easily influenced. 

Probably other man influenced her. 

You have read with your own eyes that her friends influenced her to leave you and separate. 

You tried to make your wife happy, you were dancing to her tune for the past 6 weeks, begging and pleading, you'll change yourself for her. It made zero difference to your wife. 

Your words or actions don't matter much to your wife. It depends more on what other man tells your wife, and what your wife's friends tell your wife, what your wife will decide. 

So act in such a way as you will be proud of yourself no matter the result.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

mickybill said:


> IIRC the boyfriend live 1000 miles away? Does she have the $$ to visit him, or is it with work?
> I think if you are the one who brought up her moving out, it is a very strong step forward. If she suggested it she may be looking for some freedom to explore.
> Right now she is trying to figure her next move. She had 2 guys interested in her and now she may have 1.
> If the BF liked her as a part time sidepiece he may need to readjust her expectations if she thinks they will be together full time. He may have other women in his life.
> Her mopiness is a reflection of her loss of control.
> 
> What is she doing to prove to you that she is worth it?


yes 2,000 miles apart. They are at separate companies and it was a joint project that brought Them together monthly. She would also have to crossnational
Border which is not allowed right now. But I don’t disagree the affair will continue via the cell phone. But it had been right under my
Nose the last month anyways.

typical stuff, wanting to make me food, water all the plants before she goes. Take care of me


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We had an emotional talk this morning. She is going to move out for a period of weeks while we Both figure Out what we want. I mentioned that I was now at the same
> Place she was a month ago, wanting space to figure out the relationship.
> 
> she was resistant to leaving and gave many reasons why she couldn’t. But I stuck to my guns and has an answer for every excuse.
> 
> I know this goes against some of the advice I have received on here. But I do want to use the time apart to really think about what I want. I don’t want to do anything that I cannot turn back on. My plan is evaluate if I could ever trust again. If I think after reflection I want to R ask her again and give her a chance to be honest.
> 
> maybe Over the next few weeks I will change my mind on that. But I know I did contribute to the affair but that is by no means a reason to have one
> 
> any advise on behavior while sepersted for the next few weeks


Read up and learn what it takes to R.
Full honesty
Transparency
Zero contact with the affair partner
It takes two to R with the wayward pulling the heavier load and even then it takes @ 2-5 years. 

If you don’t have the basics R won’t happen. All you’d be doing is staying together with a high chance of a repeat. Your wayward is a want but you don’t need her.

Stay away from marriage counciling. A lot are notorious rugsweepers. The marriage isn’t broken she is.

Join a gym and start exercising and watch your diet and any alcohol intake (it’s a depressant and will make things worse)


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I know this goes against some of the advice I have received on here. But I do want to use the time apart to really think about what I want. I don’t want to do anything that I cannot turn back on. *My plan is evaluate if I could ever trust again. If I think after reflection I want to R ask her again and give her a chance to be honest.*


Was there any discussion about her new boyfriend? Texts and pic of them together? 

Shes a proven liar and most will only divulge what you can prove. I would make it clear you know and it’s up to her to fix this. Without truth you won’t ever get trust. She fixes nothing, nothing changes. Which means the same behavior. You don’t want to waste time/life and go through this again.


----------



## Marc878

If you want the full truth you could do a deleted text recovery on her phone. There are good systems to use. Google Fonelab, etc. It’s worth the $50 bucks to get the full truth. If you don’t get it now long term it’ll just eat at you. If she’s unwilling to take the steps needed here then you’ll have your answer.

Most make the mistake of not going full force upfront and regret it later. If she’s a candidate for R then she should be bending over backwards to give you what you need. If not you’re wasting you’re time anywa.

I would be very direct. You need to know fully what you’re dealing with now not later. Like most she’ll want a rugsweep. Which will keep you where you are.

I wouldn’t waste my time being a marriage policeman. Lay it out and put it on her. She caused this. Today!!!!!


----------



## Robert22205

You are the victim here. Any discomfort she feels after moving is a consequence of her inappropriate behavior. 

It's important for your mental health to take and stay in control. For example, you inform her of a firm date by which you will decide whether her actions (nothing she says matters now); and/or your personal need for trust justifies giving her another chance. 

Be sure to give yourself space from her. It's not enough for her to move out. Reduce communication to a minimum. Stop being her buddy, giving her advice, listening to her fears, fixing her car, and checking in periodically. Separate your bank accounts.


----------



## mickybill

Does she say that she wants to reconcile? If she does that may or may not be more difficult while she is getting space.
If she does you need to have her make up a time-line telling the when, what, and where their meet ups, and what she was thinking at the time...some people ask for bullet points, and a full x rated version so they can read either one.
If there is any chance of reconciling you need to know what she did and what you're forgiving.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

mickybill said:


> Does she say that she wants to reconcile? If she does that may or may not be more difficult while she is getting space.
> If she does you need to have her make up a time-line telling the when, what, and where their meet ups, and what she was thinking at the time...some people ask for bullet points, and a full x rated version so they can read either one.
> If there is any chance of reconciling you need to know what she did and what you're forgiving.


she does yes. But she also has not admitted to it. I have not Brought out evidence
Or even brought it up since 3 days ago.

but in discussions today I get the impression she knows I know. Gave her some chances to confess but she did not.

I want to cool off for a couple days before I prevent evidence and give her an ultimatum


----------



## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We had an emotional talk this morning. She is going to move out for a period of weeks while we Both figure Out what we want. I mentioned that I was now at the same
> Place she was a month ago, wanting space to figure out the relationship.
> 
> she was resistant to leaving and gave many reasons why she couldn’t. But I stuck to my guns and has an answer for every excuse.
> 
> I know this goes against some of the advice I have received on here. But I do want to use the time apart to really think about what I want. I don’t want to do anything that I cannot turn back on. My plan is evaluate if I could ever trust again. If I think after reflection I want to R ask her again and give her a chance to be honest.
> 
> maybe Over the next few weeks I will change my mind on that. But I know I did contribute to the affair but that is by no means a reason to have one
> 
> any advise on behavior while sepersted for the next few weeks


Marriage is 50/50 Cheating is 100% her only not you. Don't fall for this BS. Your not to blame there were other options but the ILYBNILWY, Puts you dead in the water, you don't have a choice in the matter she made up her mind for both of you. But while she's gone she'll be meeting with him in case you don't know.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Tilted 1 said:


> Marriage is 50/50 Cheating is 100% her only not you. Don't fall for this BS. Your not to blame there were other options but the ILYBNILWY, Puts you dead in the water, you don't have a choice in the matter she made up her mind for both of you. But while she's gone she'll be meeting with him in case you don't know.


I know this in my head but I need a few days apart for my heart to comprehend


----------



## Wolfman1968

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> she does yes. But she also has not admitted to it. I have not Brought out evidence
> Or even brought it up since 3 days ago.
> 
> but in discussions today I get the impression she knows I know. Gave her some chances to confess but she did not.
> 
> I want to cool off for a couple days before I prevent evidence and give her an ultimatum


If she doesn't admit to everything she's done, then she's really not making an effort to reconcile. She's only making an effort to hide her deeds.

How can you ever trust in a situation like that? I couldn't. Most people couldn't.


----------



## MJJEAN

Rubix Cubed said:


> The only irrefutable 'smoking gun' is you walking in on them in the middle of schtupping each other. That's it. Nothing short of that is undeniable (Hell, they will even deny that) so quit looking for that and just file. Save yourself the pain.


Truth.

I was home one afternoon when I'd normally be working. The phone rang and it was a number I wasn't familiar with, so I answered. Turned out, it was my exH's AP. Did I mention I was very pregnant at the time? She knew nothing about me or the baby. She was from out of state and planning a visit soon. Apparently, they'd met and had sex her last trip here and were planning to again. I asked her to call back after exH was due home. The man denied the whole thing while I was on speakerphone with her!

About a year later, I had a friend over who was staying the night due to the late hour and a snowstorm. I fell asleep watching movies with them. I woke up and they were nowhere to be found. I caught them in the bathroom, making out, his hand very clearly up her very short skirt. That one "wasn't what it looked like".

The last one we were at a club with a large group of friends, some of whom carpooled together. When the driver had to leave, I walked the group to the door and saw them off. I went back to our table and found a female we knew sitting on his lap with her tongue down his throat. She said he told her it was ok and that he and I played games like that to take the energy home. He claimed she was insane and she just suddenly hopped on his lap and forcibly kissed him. I guess she must have put his hand on the back of her head and his other hand on her ass, too.

Cheaters typically deny, deny, deny unless/until they have no choice but to admit. Then they start damage control. Usually there is also minimizing, trickle truthing, and blameshifting served with gaslighting sauce.



Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thanks. The last two days I have done the 180 it’s a complete shift for her. Acting like a
> Sad puppy dog, constantly trying to connect. Probabaky now I was acting on the weeks prior. Not sure if this is a further sign of guilt??


It's a manipulation to keep you invested until she decides if she's moving on with her lover or staying with you. ExH puppy-dogged each and every time.



Chicagohusband2020 said:


> she does yes. But she also has not admitted to it. I have not Brought out evidence
> Or even brought it up since 3 days ago.
> 
> but in discussions today I get the impression she knows I know. Gave her some chances to confess but she did not.
> 
> I want to cool off for a couple days before I prevent evidence and give her an ultimatum


What ultimatum can you give her that gets you what you want? You want her to be honest. She had that chance and didn't take it. Forcing honestly with an ultimatum won't make her into an honest and trustworthy person.


----------



## Marc878

^^^^^^^ your heart wants what your heart wants but the above is normal behavior for a cheater.

They all lie a lot and it typically repeats.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> she does yes. But she also has not admitted to it. I have not Brought out evidence
> Or even brought it up since 3 days ago.
> 
> but in discussions today I get the impression she knows I know. Gave her some chances to confess but she did not.
> 
> I want to cool off for a couple days before I prevent evidence and give her an ultimatum


Wait... so she gives you the ILYBNILWY speech.. but now by some miracle she wants to reconcile?? What kind of crap is that? It’s a lie, is what it is. 

You will do well sir to dump her cheating ass and not waste your time with a fake reconciliation. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Buffer

Brother, well if she is moving out, she is moving on. Tell her when you confront with your evidence that you will be tested for STDs and STIs, she also needs to be tested and show you the results; they have put you at risk and didn’t practice safe sex. 
Due to her betrayal you have lost all respect for her to tell the truth. Proof for everything from now on. 
Also as it was on a work protect you have a duty to inform HR, both hers as well as his. Close off all access to credit in your name. Any she incurs when she is out is in her name only. As well if she is in the lease she will still have financial responsibilities to the abode even if she elects to move out. 
What has your legal adviser suggested? Can you get phone advice during this virus?
Keep exercising if you can, drink water and as previously advised you don’t need her permission to tell your friends and both families; including the OM partners. 
One day at a time
Buffer


----------



## TDSC60

I told my wife before we married that there are two things that would end our relationship. Cheating on me or lying to me. In hind site I probably should not have done that. I should have added disrespecting me.

I almost divorced her many years ago when I found out she was planning a date with a guy from her gym. She was going to dinner and drinks with him leaving me with our two small children.
I heard.
"He's just a friend"
"He is having trouble in his marriage and just needs to talk"
"It's not a big deal"

Not lying to me about where she was going and with who is probably the only reason we are still together.

But with your wife, she kept it all secret and actively hid it from you. Even discussing her attraction to the AP with her friends and getting their input on what she should do.

ILYBNILWY would alert me to the fact that something was seriously wrong. You know what was wrong. For a year she has been dating another man without your knowledge.

Suggesting a separation would be the end of my marriage. Sure I can separate...it's called divorce.

Don't get caught in the nostalgic mindset of how your wife used to be before the affair. How kind, how loving, how great she was. That woman is long gone. She will not return. Your wife is now forever changed by her own actions and will never be the woman you married. 

Do you really want a marriage with the lying, cheating woman who is/was in love with another man? A woman who asked for time alone to decide if she wanted him more than you?

Can you ever trust her again? 

'


----------



## TDSC60

Oh I forget.

I told her my wife was not allowed to date other men. She said it is not a date. I told her that the two of them alone for dinner and drinks WAS a date and if she was dating other men she was no longer my wife and I would be quick about setting her free so she could do as she wanted. She did not go.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

thankyou for all the advice. It has kept my
On the right track when I doubt myself or get nostalgic 

Update - with some to myself last night I did some review of everything I had. It turns out the photo on the amusement park ride is not her. It’s someone who looks very much like her but with very close review there’s are a few distinguishing features that are missing. It’s an action shot on a ride (think Disneyland style).

I am trying to not let this ease my position as I do still have the texts between her and friend, text from him, and that they were traveling to same city several times in the last several months

but I am glad I won’t present anything that can be disputed when I confront


----------



## Marc878

Good job. Don’t forget this.
Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing. The proof you seek will be in her deleted text messages in her phone. If it were me it would be a mandatory deleted text message recovery.

You know there’s more. If you don’t get it now it’ll be the elephant in the room. A rugsweep has long term real bad benefits. You may not see or realize upfront.


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I am trying to not let this ease my position as I do still have the texts between her and friend, text from him, and that they were traveling to same city several times in the last several months
> 
> but I am glad I won’t present anything that can be disputed when I confront


When you add in the infamous ILYBNILWY speech And wanting to separate it’s not a coincidence. 

Better get the full truth now Or let her go. You won’t get it later.

She maybe a want but you don't need her.

Life is way to short to live with zero trust.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Where did you find the amusement pic?

How frequently were your wife messaging with possible OM?


----------



## Robert22205

DO NOT SHOW HER THE TEXTS. Once she knows exactly what your evidence is she will create a story to dismiss your concerns and then only admit to what you already know: yes I texted too much but we're just very good friends, he give's me career advice, he's going through a rough patch and needs my advice, or we just kissed (nothing more).


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Hi all

I confronted her today about OM, not revealing my sources or how much I know.

she did admit to theaffair. Said it was just emotional, has been ongoing for 5 months. With flirting for a year. But she did also admit to sexting with him
And sharing explicit Snapchat videos a number of times in the last month. She also admitted to telling him She loved him. Fevers sting. They have been taking daily since February. She tried to deflect blame many times to me but I stood my ground.

she at first seemed more interested how I found out. She was not overly excited to block him and delete contact. I asked her to text him to stay it was over and never contact her again

A grad she messaged him saying

“my husband found out, it’s over, you contaxt me again or he will inform
Your company” 

she did block him, delete Snapchat, I told
Hermit after this time if he contacts her not to reply to tell me. I also said if I find out at anytime she talked to him
After today we were done no questions asked 


im going NC for a week or so to decide what I WANT

in the mean time Locks have been changed


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I confronted her today about OM, not revealing my sources or how much I know.
> 
> she did admit to theaffair. Said it was just emotional, has been ongoing for 5 months. With flirting for a year. But she did also admit to sexting with him
> And sharing explicit Snapchat videos a number of times in the last month. She also admitted to telling him She loved him. Fevers sting. They have been taking daily since February. She tried to deflect blame many times to me but I stood my ground.
> 
> *Wayward mentality. Good job on focusing and deflecting. 5 months with personal contact it’s probably physical. She wanted separation for just sexting? yeah, right*
> 
> she at first seemed more interested how I found out. She was not overly excited to block him and delete contact. I asked her to text him to stay it was over and never contact her again
> 
> *Not much commitment from her. A bad sign. You’ll have no control over this*
> 
> A grad she messaged him saying
> 
> “my husband found out, it’s over, you contaxt me again or he will inform
> Your company”
> 
> she did block him, delete Snapchat, I told
> Hermit after this time if he contacts her not to reply to tell me. I also said if I find out at anytime she talked to him
> After today we were done no questions asked
> 
> *Easy enough to undo. You can’t trust her*
> 
> im going NC for a week or so to decide what I WANT
> 
> in the mean time Locks have been changed


In most cases you never get the full truth upfront. Like ever.

*I would highly advise you to demand a deleted text recovery or/and a polygraph.* If it’s the truth she‘ll willfully comply. If not then you’ll know there’s more. You have nothing to lose here. Living with a lie long term is a killer.

Right now I’d bet you don’t have the full story so you’ll base your decision on a maybe? I wouldn’t.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Marc878 said:


> In most cases you never get the full truth upfront. Like ever.
> 
> *I would highly advise you to demand a deleted text recovery or/and a polygraph.* If it’s the truth she‘ll willfully comply. If not then you’ll know there’s more. You have nothing to lose here. Living with a lie long term is a killer.
> 
> Right now I’d bet you don’t have the full story so you’ll base your decision on a maybe? I wouldn’t.


This^^^^
General consensus is that an EA with proximity (work trips) almost always is a PA. History bears this out as well, and if she readily admitted to what you know, you can bet your ass there is plenty more you don't know.


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> she did admit to theaffair. Said it was just emotional, has been ongoing for 5 months. With flirting for a year. *But she did also admit to sexting with him
> And sharing explicit Snapchat videos a number of times in the last month. *She also admitted to telling him She loved him. Fevers sting. They have been taking daily since February. She tried to deflect blame many times to me but I stood my ground.


Just so you understand nude pics and videos are forever. Once those get out you nor anyone else has any control on where or when they may show up.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> Where did you find the amusement pic?
> 
> How frequently were your wife messaging with possible OM?





Marc878 said:


> Just so you understand nude pics and videos are forever. Once those get out you nor anyone else has any control on where or when they may show up.


That is her mistake to live with


----------



## Marc878

If you’re done you don’t need to look any further.

Sorry you’re here


----------



## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> That is her mistake to live with


No it's yours. The thing is can you!!?


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Tilted 1 said:


> No it's yours. The thing is can you!!?


thats true I guess


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Of course.........


It was only emotional. 

They traveled, worked, partied and sexted together.... She hid it from her friend as well. 


Good luck, you have entered limbo.


----------



## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thats true I guess


Look I know this sucks, but think of it this way besides her trips to the same location. Do you really really want this lousy Cheating woman who who look at you in the eyes. 

And told you that she loved you, and hid it so well or because you believe it. Thought nothing of it. I bet she even told you more I love you in recent time (past few months) recall them think back. 

Why, throwing you off the scent, playing you for a fool. And once you accept this really. Knowing what she did you can live with this? If you do BRACE yourself it will come back to bite you in the ass.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Of course.........
> 
> 
> It was only emotional.
> 
> They traveled, worked, partied and sexted together.... She hid it from her friend as well.
> 
> 
> Good luck, you have entered limbo.


what do you mean by limbo?


----------



## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> what do you mean by limbo?


Never able to make a stand or decision.


----------



## Marc878

Limbo is a paralyzed state unable to make a decision. These things are a shock. Most understandably haven’t ever had to deal with it and subsequently just don’t know what to do. So a lot end up in a suspended state. Not knowing the full truth doesn’t help. Cheaters gaslight (blame you, you’ve already seen that), trickle truth (drag it out, only telling what they want or you know about), etc.

Everyone is different. For some it takes awhile, most people have trouble making a decision. Pretty normal.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Marc878 said:


> Limbo is a paralyzed state unable to make a decision. These things are a shock. Most understandably haven’t ever had to deal with it and subsequently just don’t know what to do. So a lot end up in a suspended state. Not knowing the full truth doesn’t help. Cheaters gaslight (blame you, you’ve already seen that), trickle truth (drag it out, only telling what they want or you know about), etc.
> 
> Everyone is different. For some it takes awhile, most people have trouble making a decision. Pretty normal.


Right I am certainly there. But hope to only be for a few days. Need time to reflect. And I know I am only getting partial truth. I am Going worse case scenario for everyone until proven otherwise. Im
Never going to know the full truth. What was said what was done. Snapchat is not traceable. Neither is Instagram DM where they seem to have done a lot of communicating


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Right I am certainly there. But hope to only be for a few days. Need time to reflect. *And I know I am only getting partial truth. I am Going worse case scenario for everyone until proven otherwise. Im
> Never going to know the full truth. What was said what was done.* Snapchat is not traceable. Neither is Instagram DM where they seem to have done a lot of communicating


Well at least you aren’t in denial. A lot are and live on hopium which just drags it on and on.


----------



## Marc878

These are smart cheater apps to cover their tracks.

sorry you’re here


----------



## cp3o

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Right I am certainly there. But hope to only be for a few days. Need time to reflect. And I know I am only getting partial truth. I am Going worse case scenario for everyone until proven otherwise. Im
> Never going to know the full truth. What was said what was done. Snapchat is not traceable. Neither is Instagram DM where they seem to have done a lot of communicating


For me - knowing what passed between them when they were on Snapchat or Instagram would be fifthly - knowing what passed between them on their joint trips would be paramount - and, because I would never know the truth of that, trust would be impossible. And because trust would be absent the relationship would be over.


----------



## Robert22205

_*she did admit to theaffair. Said it was just emotional, has been ongoing for 5 months. With flirting for a year. But she did also admit to sexting with him. And sharing explicit Snapchat videos a number of times in the last month. She also admitted to telling him She loved him. Fevers sting. They have been taking daily since February. She tried to deflect blame many times to me but I stood my ground. *_

Thank you for sharing information regarding the confrontation. Each of her responses above (including wanting to know how you found out) is 100% typical cheater talk. As predicted, She only admitted to what you already knew (having feelings for him/saying she loved him, inappropriate texts. She admitted to everything but sex ( no surprise there). 

Confessing to the videos (something you didn't know) was her attempt to convince you she's now being 100% honest and that you now know the full truth. 

However, confessing to the video was not her being honest but rather her desperately trying to convince you that now that you know 'everything' don't ask anymore questions about if they had sex. 

You are not the first spouse to be in this situation. Somebody called it limbo. 

On the one hand, you want to believe her because maybe his whole **** sandwich would be less painful if it was 'just' an EA. On the other hand, your common sense is saying here's what you know: this has been going on for months, they have been in face to face contact/the opportunity to have sex, she told you she's in love with you but not in love ...; she has feelings for him, daily communication for months, plus sexting & videos, and she's reluctant to go NC. 

She expects you to believe that it was not a PA. However, (given their opportunity to have sex without you knowing) do you know any men that would invest that much time and effort in a woman he's not having sex with? 

If you want more certainty, insist on a detailed timeline - subject to a polygraph.


----------



## SunCMars

Ah yes, the polygraph...

The *last ditch effort at getting prevaricating Polly to finally sing out the 'hole' truth.

Are there any holes in her story?
Were any of those holes filled by the OM?

Hrump! *A last ditch effort, this dark witch lying, all while standing tall and firm in her telling.

........................................................

Prose aside, if she refuses to take a polygraph, suspect the real-truth to be a full figure PA.
Then again, with the 'explicit' videos, the OM has already feasted on her figure, figuratively and voyeur-ously.
Same thing, eh?

She has given of herself to the AP already, has she not?
You know, if they dated, he held the door for her, pulled out her chair, wrapped one arm, or the other, around her.

He certainly touched her mind and he likely touched her body, many times. Even if his touches were not overtly intimate, they were covertly so.
For sure..

This, in improper {ways-and-means}, acting on the outlying legislation, now under consideration.

And, they at least kissed.
Huh?
Sigh, no lady is going to send a man videos of her privates without some sort of rehearsal dance.

She knows in her heart, that it is her privates that primarily binds him to her.
She gave him those willingly, did she not?
This hook is common carnal knowledge, gleaned from adolescence, onward.

She has long-leggedly stepped over the line from flirting to sharing of her love, those being mental and physical.
The rest of this sad story is more, mere semantics.

If she takes the poly and passes, um, her body thus, was 'likely' never penetrated.
Alas, she can never pass the smell test.
Nope.

Can you forgive her, these, her sins?

You must, to reconcile.

Part of forgiving will require forgetting. Most minds cannot forget such pain.

Is she worth the years of pain, those mind games, that assuredly will follow?

When you look at her you will always see the other man, her eyes and his locked together.
And, likely other things in contact.

Others have forgiven, and gotten past these affairs, but at great cost.
Again, is she worth the cost?

I will let you do the figuring.


THRD-


----------



## Hoosier

Limbo Sucks the Soul Dry.


Hey, why you are thinking about it. Remember this, at least during the time she was sexting him sending him videos, pictures, etc. She was doing the same with you ...........right? He wasnt getting more from her than you were.


----------



## Tdbo

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I confronted her today about OM, not revealing my sources or how much I know.
> 
> she did admit to theaffair. Said it was just emotional, has been ongoing for 5 months. With flirting for a year. But she did also admit to sexting with him
> And sharing explicit Snapchat videos a number of times in the last month. She also admitted to telling him She loved him. Fevers sting. They have been taking daily since February. She tried to deflect blame many times to me but I stood my ground.
> 
> she at first seemed more interested how I found out. She was not overly excited to block him and delete contact. I asked her to text him to stay it was over and never contact her again
> 
> A grad she messaged him saying
> 
> “my husband found out, it’s over, you contaxt me again or he will inform
> Your company”
> 
> she did block him, delete Snapchat, I told
> Hermit after this time if he contacts her not to reply to tell me. I also said if I find out at anytime she talked to him
> After today we were done no questions asked
> 
> 
> im going NC for a week or so to decide what I WANT
> 
> in the mean time Locks have been changed


Good move kicking her out.
If she's going to continue with him, she's going to do it regardless of her residence.
From your account, the only remorse she is showing is that she got caught.
As a matter of fact, her question in regards to how you found out , sounds like an educational attempt to learn how to refine her technique.
You need to do what's best for you, but you would best be served by going hard core.
Lawyer up. Have her served.
She needs to be "Broken," so she can be "Built back up" in a way respectful to your marriage.
Any attempt at reconciliation should come from her. You can pace/halt the proceedings if she shows true sorrow/remorse/humility.
It should be incumbent for her to make you feel safe. If she truly wants to reconcile, she should be willing to do whatever it takes and give you anything you want.
Only you know what that is, however, I would suggest , that she be required to attend IC with an infidelity specialist of your choice (vet them, give her a choice of 2.) Full compliance with the therapist should be demanded, as well as her signing a waiver allowing full updates from the therapist to you. She should also provide a post nup, which would be favorable to you.
She would also be expected to fulfill all of the other expectations that have been outlined many times on this site, including a written accounting (subject to poly), full transparency, and her social media is DOA.
In addition, if you take her back, she better be "Lighting up" your world. You get whatever you want, when you want it. You get everything loverboy did (and didn't) X's five. Her goal should be wearing you out.
You need to be the one to take control and set the benchmarks.Make sure she "Gives blood."
Tell her that her focus better be on earning back your trust. She is on a 1 week roll over contract until she does. If she doesn't comply, she's gone.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

The fact that she clearly didn’t want to cut the contact is telling. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gabriel

3Xnocharm said:


> The fact that she clearly didn’t want to cut the contact is telling.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They never WANT to. Cake eaters want to eat cake as long as possible. They will say anything to keep both sides going as long as possible. Dopamine will do that. It's only by force that they will stop. You have to think about it like you are dealing with an addict.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

SunCMars said:


> Ah yes, the polygraph...
> 
> The *last ditch effort at getting prevaricating Polly to finally sing out the 'hole' truth.
> 
> Are there any holes in her story?
> Were any of those holes filled by the OM?
> 
> Hrump! *A last ditch effort, this dark witch lying, all while standing tall and firm in her telling.
> 
> ........................................................
> 
> Prose aside, if she refuses to take a polygraph, suspect the real-truth to be a full figure PA.
> Then again, with the 'explicit' videos, the OM has already feasted on her figure, figuratively and voyeur-ously.
> Same thing, eh?
> 
> She has given of herself to the AP already, has she not?
> You know, if they dated, he held the door for her, pulled out her chair, wrapped one arm, or the other, around her.
> 
> He certainly touched her mind and he likely touched her body, many times. Even if his touches were not overtly intimate, they were covertly so.
> For sure..
> 
> This, in improper {ways-and-means}, acting on the outlying legislation, now under consideration.
> 
> And, they at least kissed.
> Huh?
> Sigh, no lady is going to send a man videos of her privates without some sort of rehearsal dance.
> 
> She knows in her heart, that it is her privates that primarily binds him to her.
> She gave him those willingly, did she not?
> This hook is common carnal knowledge, gleaned from adolescence, onward.
> 
> She has long-leggedly stepped over the line from flirting to sharing of her love, those being mental and physical.
> The rest of this sad story is more, mere semantics.
> 
> If she takes the poly and passes, um, her body thus, was 'likely' never penetrated.
> Alas, she can never pass the smell test.
> Nope.
> 
> Can you forgive her, these, her sins?
> 
> You must, to reconcile.
> 
> Part of forgiving will require forgetting. Most minds cannot forget such pain.
> 
> Is she worth the years of pain, those mind games, that assuredly will follow?
> 
> When you look at her you will always see the other man, her eyes and his locked together.
> And, likely other things in contact.
> 
> Others have forgiven, and gotten past these affairs, but at great cost.
> Again, is she worth the cost?
> 
> I will let you do the figuring.
> 
> 
> THRD-


Thank you this was quite helpful to read through and think over


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

3Xnocharm said:


> The fact that she clearly didn’t want to cut the contact is telling.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It sure is. 

I have to think about myself I can cut this clean and restart, why put myself through all the work it will take? And after that will i ever be able to trust her? TO look at her the same way?

She left the house Saturday crying, talking about how she did want to fix things and didn't want to leave. When she did leave she jumped on a call with him for 40 minutes,. Then laid in bed that night and played secy message time while at the same time texting me saying she missed me and wanted to fix things. Snake!


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Tdbo said:


> Good move kicking her out.
> If she's going to continue with him, she's going to do it regardless of her residence.
> From your account, the only remorse she is showing is that she got caught.
> As a matter of fact, her question in regards to how you found out , sounds like an educational attempt to learn how to refine her technique.
> You need to do what's best for you, but you would best be served by going hard core.
> Lawyer up. Have her served.
> She needs to be "Broken," so she can be "Built back up" in a way respectful to your marriage.
> Any attempt at reconciliation should come from her. You can pace/halt the proceedings if she shows true sorrow/remorse/humility.
> It should be incumbent for her to make you feel safe. If she truly wants to reconcile, she should be willing to do whatever it takes and give you anything you want.
> Only you know what that is, however, I would suggest , that she be required to attend IC with an infidelity specialist of your choice (vet them, give her a choice of 2.) Full compliance with the therapist should be demanded, as well as her signing a waiver allowing full updates from the therapist to you. She should also provide a post nup, which would be favorable to you.
> She would also be expected to fulfill all of the other expectations that have been outlined many times on this site, including a written accounting (subject to poly), full transparency, and her social media is DOA.
> In addition, if you take her back, she better be "Lighting up" your world. You get whatever you want, when you want it. You get everything loverboy did (and didn't) X's five. Her goal should be wearing you out.
> You need to be the one to take control and set the benchmarks.Make sure she "Gives blood."
> Tell her that her focus better be on earning back your trust. She is on a 1 week roll over contract until she does. If she doesn't comply, she's gone.


Thanks very helpful, will keep this as a handbook if I do decide to reconcile


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Hoosier said:


> Limbo Sucks the Soul Dry.
> 
> 
> Hey, why you are thinking about it. Remember this, at least during the time she was sexting him sending him videos, pictures, etc. She was doing the same with you ...........right? He wasnt getting more from her than you were.


Nope, not at all. In-fact a couple times the last month she would come in all hot an bothered and would me like a sex toy. Eyes closed. Thought she just didn't want to be emotional while we went through this, totally uncharacteristic. Now adding up shew has been watching lover-boys video and using me to finish herself off. Makes me sick


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> It sure is.
> 
> I have to think about myself I can cut this clean and restart, why put myself through all the work it will take? And after that will i ever be able to trust her? TO look at her the same way?
> 
> She left the house Saturday crying, talking about how she did want to fix things and didn't want to leave. When she did leave she jumped on a call with him for 40 minutes,. Then laid in bed that night and played secy message time while at the same time texting me saying she missed me and wanted to fix things. Snake!


Upfront like most you got the “regret of getting caught” nothing more. The no contact message was a meaningless ploy. She just wants to eat more cake at your expense of course.

R takes 2-5 years with a willing partner. You don’t even have the basics. Her deplorable actions tell you what you need to know. Don’t live on hopium. It won’t help you.


----------



## OutofRetirement

> I also said if I find out at anytime she talked to him After today we were done no questions asked


You found out about the call when she left. Will you be able to see if she calls him again? You mentioned non-traceable methods. Why did she not use those methods to contact him when she left?


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> You found out about the call when she left. Will you be able to see if she calls him again? You mentioned non-traceable methods. Why did she not use those methods to contact him when she left?


when she left the first time. She still used non traceable, internet phoning. But when i contacted i asked to seer her phone ;looked at call log. Untraceable in the fact they wouldn't show up on the cell bill


----------



## Robert22205

It's good that she doesn't know your source of information on her affair. Because she could easily go totally underground by getting her own phone service.

Long thread...I apologize if you've answered this. Is the OM local and sees her everyday? If he's married, notify his wife and blow up his world. If he's single or divorced, confirm that yourself. 

Is the OM a supervisor or senior to your wife? 

Judge her by her actions NOT her words. She says she wants to fix things but continues to be very involved with the OM plus she's still lying to you. 

Not only is she deceitful but her behavior is not someone that wants to be married.

IMO she's chasing after the OM in the hopes that he wants her for more than a side piece.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Robert22205 said:


> It's good that she doesn't know your source of information on her affair. Because she could easily go totally underground by getting her own phone service.
> 
> Long thread...I apologize if you've answered this. Is the OM local and sees her everyday? If he's married, notify his wife and blow up his world. If he's single or divorced, confirm that yourself.
> 
> Is the OM a supervisor or senior to your wife?
> 
> Judge her by her actions NOT her words. She says she wants to fix things but continues to be very involved with the OM plus she's still lying to you.
> 
> Not only is she deceitful but her behavior is not someone that wants to be married.
> 
> IMO she's chasing after the OM in the hopes that he wants her for more than a side piece.


No he does not 1000's of miles away. And at a different company , work on a joint project involving multiple companies


----------



## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> It sure is.
> 
> I have to think about myself I can cut this clean and restart, why put myself through all the work it will take? And after that will i ever be able to trust her? TO look at her the same way?
> 
> She left the house Saturday crying, talking about how she did want to fix things and didn't want to leave. When she did leave she jumped on a call with him for 40 minutes,. Then laid in bed that night and played secy message time while at the same time texting me saying she missed me and wanted to fix things. Snake!


Thumbs up! To the snake part


----------



## Marc878

I predict as you are no contact without distractions when reflecting back you’ll see things you ignored or overlooked before.


----------



## Beach123

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> It sure is.
> 
> I have to think about myself I can cut this clean and restart, why put myself through all the work it will take? And after that will i ever be able to trust her? TO look at her the same way?
> 
> She left the house Saturday crying, talking about how she did want to fix things and didn't want to leave. When she did leave she jumped on a call with him for 40 minutes,. Then laid in bed that night and played secy message time while at the same time texting me saying she missed me and wanted to fix things. Snake!


well this certainly is t a gal that trying to earn your trust back and repair the marriage!

sheez, she had just told you she wouldn’t contact him again!

the marriage is over! You can NEVER trust her again. Stop allowing her to play you as a fool. She’s wasting your time and hurting you.

she doesn’t respect you and she is a master manipulator! Don’t waste your time on her.


----------



## VladDracul

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> in the mean time Locks have been changed


I hope you know you cannot evict her from the house. Don't let that maneuver of changing the locks (constructive eviction) come back to bite you in the azz.


----------



## Buffer

Well if she called him for 40 minutes and is still sexting him. Time for her to know it is D time. Due to her conscious decision. So to maintain receiving the thrill of the A. Couldn’t go one night on the first day without contact. Shame on her. Exspose to all. 
One day at a time
Buffer


----------



## VladDracul

Buffer said:


> Well if she called him for 40 minutes and is still sexting him.


If old Chicago thinks this broad is so valuable he wants to maneuver around trying "win her back" when she's through test driving other guys, he may need to ask himself why she feels the need to go exploring. If the chicks wants to fawn over other guys, release her. If she doesn't return, she was never yours to begin with. If she does return, tell her she's SOL because you've already replaced her with an upgraded model.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We had an emotional talk this morning. She is going to move out for a period of weeks while we Both figure Out what we want. I mentioned that I was now at the same
> Place she was a month ago, wanting space to figure out the relationship.
> 
> she was resistant to leaving and gave many reasons why she couldn’t. But I stuck to my guns and has an answer for every excuse.
> 
> I know this goes against some of the advice I have received on here. But I do want to use the time apart to really think about what I want. I don’t want to do anything that I cannot turn back on. My plan is evaluate if I could ever trust again. If I think after reflection I want to R ask her again and give her a chance to be honest.
> 
> maybe Over the next few weeks I will change my mind on that. But I know I did contribute to the affair but that is by no means a reason to have one
> 
> any advise on behavior while sepersted for the next few weeks


She'll be having crazy sex with the first guy she can bed within a few hours of leaving your place.

Plan accordingly.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Buffer said:


> Well if she called him for 40 minutes and is still sexting him. Time for her to know it is D time. Due to her conscious decision. So to maintain receiving the thrill of the A. Couldn’t go one night on the first day without contact. Shame on her. Exspose to all.
> One day at a time
> Buffer


I just want to clarify that she moved out from thew house Saturday under the discussion she was moving out to give us space to work on things, when she left the house that day she jumped on the phone with him, exchanged numerous messages that evening. 

When she came back the following day to get some items I confronted her. at the point she agreed to NC and blocked deleted etc. I have not spoken to her since other than several apology texts and she will do whats needs etc. we are apart so I cannot police if she has unblocked him etc. but that is what it is. I did advise her that if i found out there was any contact from that second forward I would file for divorce in seconds


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I just want to clarify that she moved out from thew house Saturday under the discussion she was moving out to give us space to work on things, when she left the house that day she jumped on the phone with him, exchanged numerous messages that evening.
> 
> *So as soon as she left after she supposedly cut contact (after confrontation) sent an NC text and she’s right back at it? *
> 
> When she came back the following day to get some items I confronted her. at the point she agreed to NC and blocked deleted etc. I have not spoken to her since other than several apology texts and she will do whats needs etc. we are apart so I cannot police if she has unblocked him etc. but that is what it is. I did advise her that if i found out there was any contact from that second forward I would file for divorce in seconds.
> 
> *um, She already agreed once so what’s this going to get you?*


Ultimatums when not followed through just set you up for more. Sounds like you have put yourself in limbo. No one else can do that.


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I confronted her today about OM, not revealing my sources or how much I know.
> 
> she did admit to theaffair. Said it was just emotional, has been ongoing for 5 months. With flirting for a year. But she did also admit to sexting with him
> And sharing explicit Snapchat videos a number of times in the last month. She also admitted to telling him She loved him. Fevers sting. They have been taking daily since February. She tried to deflect blame many times to me but I stood my ground.
> 
> she at first seemed more interested how I found out. She was not overly excited to block him and delete contact. I asked her to text him to stay it was over and never contact her again
> 
> *A grad she messaged him saying
> 
> “my husband found out, it’s over, you contaxt me again or he will inform
> Your company”
> 
> she did block him, delete Snapchat, I told
> Hermit after this time if he contacts her not to reply to tell me. I also said if I find out at anytime she talked to him
> After today we were done no questions asked*
> 
> 
> im going NC for a week or so to decide what I WANT
> 
> in the mean time Locks have been changed


She walked all over your ultimatum. Guess what? your ultimatums are meaningless now.

You are showing she’s worth more than you. Is she?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I just want to clarify that she moved out from thew house Saturday under the discussion she was moving out to give us space to work on things, when she left the house that day she jumped on the phone with him, exchanged numerous messages that evening.
> 
> When she came back the following day to get some items I confronted her. at the point she agreed to NC and blocked deleted etc. I have not spoken to her since other than several apology texts and she will do whats needs etc. we are apart so I cannot police if she has unblocked him etc. but that is what it is. I did advise her that if i found out there was any contact from that second forward I would file for divorce in seconds


Like she didn't know contacting him was wrong. So you had to tell her that. Or else she could keep doing it and say, "I didn't know I shouldn't do that." It's like babysitting a child.


----------



## OutofRetirement

By the way, this is how most marriages fail after infidelity. Not the infidelity itself. The continuing disrespect. And what she is doing STILL is complete DISRESPECT.

On the other hand, me, personally, I learned, and luckily not the hard way, that people who can't figure basic stuff like that on their own are either really, really stupid, or they really, really just don't care. And guess what? People don't suddenly get stupid, but they do stop caring.

Maybe she just wasn't ready financially, maybe she's the type that needs a man at all times, can't go a second in between relationships, or maybe the potential reputation risk has her backpedaling. But definitely her head is not in the game as far as doing what's right for you.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> Like she didn't know contacting him was wrong. So you had to tell her that. Or else she could keep doing it and say, "I didn't know I shouldn't do that." It's like babysitting a child.


yep pretty much. I honestly thought she was being so sneaky she would never get caught.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> Maybe she just wasn't ready financially, maybe she's the type that needs a man at all times, can't go a second in between relationships, or maybe the potential reputation risk has her backpedaling. But definitely her head is not in the game as far as doing what's right for you.


I think your bang on, she took every stop imaginable to not allow me to find out. Which would have benefited her as she would have moved out I would have continued to blame myself and would have been nice to her in divorce. This has blown that all apart, and any attempt to R maybe just that, saving face.


----------



## Yeswecan

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> yep pretty much. I honestly thought she was being so sneaky she would never get caught.


The question remains, do you want to be warden and detective for the coming months and years? You are getting a taste of it. It is sour.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Yeswecan said:


> The question remains, do you want to be warden and detective for the coming months and years? You are getting a taste of it. It is sour.


 its also bitter and makes you feel like an asshole for having to do that


----------



## Yeswecan

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> its also bitter and makes you feel like an asshole for having to do that


Yes sir. I understand completely as many do here. The trust is shot to hell. Very hard to return to a position of trust once it is gone. Your W does not grasp this and may not for a very long time. I would file for D. You can always retract later. The D paperwork will make this all very real to your WW.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I just want to clarify that she moved out from thew house Saturday under the discussion she was moving out to give us space to work on things, when she left the house that day she jumped on the phone with him, exchanged numerous messages that evening.
> 
> When she came back the following day to get some items I confronted her. at the point she agreed to NC and blocked deleted etc. I have not spoken to her since other than several apology texts and she will do whats needs etc. we are apart so I cannot police if she has unblocked him etc. but that is what it is. I did advise her that if i found out there was any contact from that second forward I would file for divorce in seconds


All you did is give her something to rebel against, which will up her thrill when she unblocks him the second you're not looking.

Which she will do with glee now that she has her 'independence' without you.

Your threats and ultimatums here are useless and are actually degrading your ability to control this situation. Don't threaten - act.

I virtually guarantee there's been another guy physically involved with her by this point since the move. She will apologize to your face, cry crocodile tears, swear she'll never do this again, and beg you not to leave her... and then jump on the next willing penis she can find the moment she's out of sight. It's just the way these things roll.


----------



## Marc878

You can’t ever police or investigate a wayward enough. They always find a way. Don’t expect D papers to change this. Manipulation only works for a short period of time. You want to drag that 600lb piano around ?


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I just want to clarify that she moved out from thew house Saturday under the discussion she was moving out to give us space to work on things, when she left the house that day she jumped on the phone with him, exchanged numerous messages that evening.
> 
> When she came back the following day to get some items I confronted her. at the point she agreed to NC and blocked deleted etc. I have not spoken to her since other than several apology texts and she will do whats needs etc. we are apart so I cannot police if she has unblocked him etc. but that is what it is. I did advise her that if i found out there was any contact from that second forward I would file for divorce in seconds


Oh, this is even worse. He is local enough to meet up right? 

If that is true she spent the night with him. 

Yeah she is completely playing you. You would be smart to file now...


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> its also bitter and makes you feel like an asshole for having to do that


Yeah, I did it for about 2 weeks. Started hated looking at myself in the mirror, look in my own eyes. I was becoming a loser. The kind of guy I looked down on. So I stopped doing it.

A couple days later I told her from now on, if you're doing things I don't like, I'm divorcing you. And I'm going to do whatever the hell I want, and if you don't like it, you can divorce me. I guess you could say I was mad as hell and I wasn't going to take it anymore. For real. Not just a movie.

Mad as hell


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I think your bang on, she took every stop imaginable to not allow me to find out. Which would have benefited her as she would have moved out I would have continued to blame myself and would have been nice to her in divorce. This has blown that all apart, and any attempt to R maybe just that, saving face.


Honestly, EVERYONE almost, has been telling you she is lying. Why don't want to believe people that have been through this and helped people all over the world?

Now do you believe us? Do you see how this works?

Like I said, she is going to try out the new guy from now on unless he dumps her and then she will try to nice you back.

You are not going to stand for that, are you???????


----------



## Tilted 1

Marduk said:


> All you did is give her something to rebel against, which will up her thrill when she unblocks him the second you're not looking.
> 
> Which she will do with glee now that she has her 'independence' without you.
> 
> Your threats and ultimatums here are useless and are actually degrading your ability to control this situation. Don't threaten - act.
> 
> I virtually guarantee there's been another guy physically involved with her by this point since the move. She will apologize to your face, cry crocodile tears, swear she'll never do this again, and beg you not to leave her... and then jump on the next willing penis she can find the moment she's out of sight. It's just the way these things roll.


Yup.


----------



## mickybill

No contact will help you, also no more PI work. She seems to be hell bent on keeping her BF.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

BluesPower said:


> Oh, this is even worse. He is local enough to meet up right?
> 
> If that is true she spent the night with him.
> 
> Yeah she is completely playing you. You would be smart to file now...


No he inst, 1,000's of miles away


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> No he inst, 1,000's of miles away


So I can't understand that. 

No he Isn't 1000 of miles away. How many miles away is he, is he local or an hour away or something?


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> No he inst, 1,000's of miles away


There's plenty of local guys that aren't 1,000s of miles away.

When people cheat, they're not exactly super monogamous with the person they're cheating on you with.


----------



## Beach123

I would expose her to all family and friends. And file for divorce online if possible.

she needs proof you mean it!

she SAID she wanted to keep the marriage but her actions proved otherwise!

she is STILL willing to betray you the minute she left the house - that is ALL you need to understand!

she won’t stop contacting him - she will just find ways to get sneakier.

she definitely isn’t considering YOUR feelings!

file now!


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

BluesPower said:


> So I can't understand that.
> 
> No he Isn't 1000 of miles away. How many miles away is he, is he local or an hour away or something?


he is literally 2,00 miles away and across a national border


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Beach123 said:


> I would expose her to all family and friends. And file for divorce online if possible.
> 
> she needs proof you mean it!
> 
> she SAID she wanted to keep the marriage but her actions proved otherwise!
> 
> she is STILL willing to betray you the minute she left the house - that is ALL you need to understand!
> 
> she won’t stop contacting him - she will just find ways to get sneakier.
> 
> she definitely isn’t considering YOUR feelings!
> 
> file now!


thanks


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Marduk said:


> There's plenty of local guys that aren't 1,000s of miles away.
> 
> When people cheat, they're not exactly super monogamous with the person they're cheating on you with.


I cant imagine that and dont want to think about it to be honest


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

BluesPower said:


> Honestly, EVERYONE almost, has been telling you she is lying. Why don't want to believe people that have been through this and helped people all over the world?
> 
> Now do you believe us? Do you see how this works?
> 
> Like I said, she is going to try out the new guy from now on unless he dumps her and then she will try to nice you back.
> 
> You are not going to stand for that, are you???????


nope! I am not a door mat


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> he is literally 2,00 miles away and across a national border


200 miles, meeting halfway is what a 2 hour drive. If he can get across the border?

Maybe she did maybe she did not, but it is doable. 

Frankly I have driven the whole 4 hours to see a girl when I was young. 

Who knows...


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

BluesPower said:


> 200 miles, meeting halfway is what a 2 hour drive. If he can get across the border?
> 
> Maybe she did maybe she did not, but it is doable.
> 
> Frankly I have driven the whole 4 hours to see a girl when I was young.
> 
> Who knows...


2,000 sorry a couple days drive


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I cant imagine that and dont want to think about it to be honest


Listen, man. From a guy that's been there.

You need to think about that and more. My darling ex wife - who was sweet and innocent and everybody's darling good girl - was banging the security guard in the company storeroom or something. I still don't know how she did it, but she did it.

And there were others during the separation. Many others. In our bed. During our 'trial separation.'

You never really know anyone.


----------



## Andy1001

Buddy in your wife’s eyes you are plan B. If she could have worked things out with her boyfriend you would be history. 
Plan B NEVER becomes plan A.
NEVER!!


Chicagohusband2020 said:


> its also bitter and makes you feel like an asshole for having to do that


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I cant imagine that and dont want to think about it to be honest


I seriously doubt she's physically cheating or that she's having more than one affair partner. But it does seem she is really invested in this other man. She wants to talk with him. Pre-virus she probably met him near your house. Affair sex is usually rather uninhibited, this is all from my experiences and observations, cheating wives need to work a bit harder to compete and keep the other man interested than the long-term loyal spouse. That's why you see a lot of risque pics, raunchy sexts, etc., in affairs (not saying your wife has done this, but it is common). Very often the cheater starts dieting, losing weight, exercising, working out, wearing sexier stuff. On trips, if that's the only time they meet, she'd be bringing new never-seen or at least never-used for you lingerie to use with him. Again, this isnt necessarily your wife, but typically they don't feel the need for the old reliable husband. And this works both ways, cheating husbands are typically much more attentive and considerate with APs than reliable loyal wives.

You may never know one way or the other, but I would almost expect that (pre-virus) when she asked you to separate, that AP would be taking a vacation to stay in a hotel nearby so they could see each other and you'd be less likely to see them.

The affairs don't usually end the marriage, the continued cheating-type behaviors, like sneaky contact, do. Our minds don't change quickly. Time is what is needed for us in any big change. It takes us a long time to get used to the idea. Time heals. Breakups, deaths, losing a job ... our mindset and getting used to it takes a number of weeks, months, even years sometimes. Your wife started detaching quite a while ago. She was no evil genius, she didn't marry you just so she could act like she was a loyal wife for many years just to hurt you more when she cheated years later. If she was basically a moral person, she probably still is, except for the cheating. But it took time for that to happen. She kept it to herself, but she started liking this guy, talking to him, giving him pics, and then after that boundary crossed, everything else speeds up, the detachment is like a bicycle downhill without any brakes.

She was there, completely, and not all, maybe well less than half, ever reach the Let's separate ILYBINILWY. It's an a fait accompli, a done deal, the plan (even if it's only her plan, not his) is in place. She'll tell everyone that you drifted apart, you did the things she blamed you for, she separated, she realized she fell out of love, and she decided to divorce, and it was hard on her, and then she could tell everyone, Look, this colleague from work started talking to me and supporting me and we both fell in love. This is the narrative more than one cheater wanted to follow. Wanting people to never know she cheated because her reputation means a lot to her. In cheating wives in long-term marriages who haven't cheated before, I would say reputation is the biggest factor in the cheater wife trying to stay together after getting caught.

What you could expect is that she won't be able to stop contacting this guy. And this guy doesn't really want her, he is just saying what he needs to do to get the uninhibited sex he is not used to. If he really wanted her, he would have been gone already. She seems to be the pursuer, from what you've posted so far. He probably was the pursuer in the very beginning, but once he reeled her in, he didn't have to pursue any more.

The virus helps him, because he has an excuse for being with her. But that was her idea, once she was out of your house, she'd be able to tell him, I did my part, now it's your turn.

Cheating is predictable like the weather is predictable. There are different types. Sunny days, rainy days, snow days - you know each type is predictable. One night stands, emotional affairs (your wife is in one of those, even if it's physical, too, it's predominantly emotional for her, the physical is something she enjoys and wants but is not what propelled her to it), physical-only affairs, exit affairs - each type is predictable.

Your ability to even have the opportunity to reconcile with your wife depends on whether the other man will dump her or do something to make her realize he doesn't feel the same emotionally about her, is just using her for sex. It is his game to lose at this point. If he gets injured, you'll get your chance. Watch her actions, not her words. They can seem very, very sincere. It's crazy how sincere they can seem. But the actions, they can't fake easily. You know the old cliche, talk is cheap. Actions are much more difficult.

She will contact him, there's about 99% of that. The luck part of reconciing is either moving the line in the sand (next time I really mean it) when you catch her or not finding out ever or at least until she actually detaches from him and she commits to him. It took time for her to attach to him, it will take time for her to detach. It took time for her to attach to you, it took time to detach from you. This is how it works.


----------



## OutofRetirement

When I said "I seriously doubt she's physically cheating," I meant now with the virus going on - I think she defintely had sex with him a number of times before the separation and ILYBINILWY talk.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> When I said "I seriously doubt she's physically cheating," I meant now with the virus going on - I think she defintely had sex with him a number of times before the separation and ILYBINILWY talk.


I think if we do begin to R I am going to have to have a polygraph because that is paramount. I don't know why but that is a done deal in my mind.


----------



## Marc878

Reconciliation basic requirement:
truth
transparency
zero contact with affair partner
remorseful spouse
wayward pulling the heavier load
both must want to work on the marriage

if you don’t have the basic requirements you’re wasting your time

you'll just stay together with a high chance of a repeat


----------



## Tilted 1

OutofRetirement said:


> When I said "I seriously doubt she's physically cheating," I meant now with the virus going on - I think she defintely had sex with him a number of times before the separation and ILYBINILWY talk.


Sadly yes.


----------



## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I think if we do begin to R I am going to have to have a polygraph because that is paramount. I don't know why but that is a done deal in my mind.


It is a done deal, just quit spinning your wheels in the mud. CH, it solves nothing you already know your gut told you and yet your after more and more proof stop it.


----------



## Tilted 1

Marc878 said:


> Reconciliation basic requirement:
> truth
> transparency
> zero contact with affair partner
> remorseful spouse
> wayward pulling the heavier load
> both must want to work on the marriage
> 
> if you don’t have the basic requirements you’re wasting your time
> 
> you'll just stay together with a high chance of a repeat


I'll sorry to disagree with you Marc! There is no repeat it's still on going.


----------



## Marc878

Tilted 1 said:


> I'll sorry to disagree with you Marc! There is no repeat it's still on going.


I agree. I was just laying out what R requires to at Least have a chance at success. Currently He doesn’t have one item.


----------



## Affaircare




----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> 2,000 sorry a couple days drive


OK. Well thank God for small mercies... 

At least she won't be screwing him the whole time until the divorce.


----------



## BluesPower

And folks, while OP does not really believe it... She was banging OM while on business trips. Everyone knows that. 

So while it may not be physical right not, when she travels it was....


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I think if we do begin to R I am going to have to have a polygraph because that is paramount. I don't know why but that is a done deal in my mind.


If physical sex /intercourse, is a deal breaker, you have to realize the deal is broken. 

Adults don't just hold hands when they have physical proximity, they just don't... 

They had lot's of sex out of town at the very least. I hope you can realize that. 

But honestly, unless you are really foolish, I don't think R is in your future. 

You really don't sound like you are that kind of man...


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Affaircare said:


>


Well I just got a dose of Rug Sweeping. WS asked if I was ready to go to marriage counselling and that she had been seeing someone individually last couple of days. 

I said I was not sure but that I needed to know she was fully committed to staying together and would jump rough all the hoops required to heal. I even shared an article about betrayed spouses and how they will act and how difficult it will be. 

Here are some snippets of our conservation;

WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"

ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"

WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"

ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"

WS - "No that would not have"
"I was not sleeping with him"
"I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"

ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"

WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"

ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe" 

WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"

WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"

I know what the right answer is, file for D tomorrow.


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well I just got a dose of Rug Sweeping. WS asked if I was ready to go to marriage counselling and that she had been seeing someone individually last couple of days.
> 
> I said I was not sure but that I needed to know she was fully committed to staying together and would jump rough all the hoops required to heal. I even shared an article about betrayed spouses and how they will act and how difficult it will be.
> 
> Here are some snippets of our conservation;
> 
> WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"
> 
> ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"
> 
> WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"
> 
> ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"
> 
> WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"
> 
> ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"
> 
> WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"
> 
> ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe"
> 
> WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"
> 
> WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"
> 
> I know what the right answer is, file for D tomorrow.


Yes that is the answer. This is not really rug sweeping, in a way.

It is really kind of gas lighting, and actually total and complete ********.

Yes brother, you need to file. I would not even talk to her at all...

However if you want a laugh, tell her OK, are you willing to take a polygraph about your affair?

She what she says then? This is such a joke, I am sorry.

And just to get you to understand, you are not equally at fault. She is a cheater, she does not even give 2 ****s about you.

BTW, cheaters lie a lot...


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well I just got a dose of Rug Sweeping. WS asked if I was ready to go to marriage counselling and that she had been seeing someone individually last couple of days.
> 
> I said I was not sure but that I needed to know she was fully committed to staying together and would jump rough all the hoops required to heal. I even shared an article about betrayed spouses and how they will act and how difficult it will be.
> 
> Here are some snippets of our conservation;
> 
> WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"
> 
> ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"
> 
> WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"
> 
> ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"
> 
> WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"
> 
> ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"
> 
> WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"
> 
> ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe"
> 
> WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"
> 
> WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"
> 
> I know what the right answer is, file for D tomorrow.


Your only answer to any of her BS would be a heartfelt belly laugh.

I mean, it's laughable. She 'owns it' but her cheating is an 'underlying symptom'... meaning your fault?

She has the cheater's script downpat. Nothing is her fault, everything is your fault, and you should be happy she is even considering reconciling because she's so fantastic. What a joke.


----------



## Marduk

BluesPower said:


> Yes that is the answer. This is not really rug sweeping, in a way.
> 
> It is really kind of gas lighting, and actually total and complete ********.
> 
> Yes brother, you need to file. I would not even talk to her at all...
> 
> However if you want a laugh, tell her OK, are you willing to take a polygraph about your affair?
> 
> She what she says then? This is such a joke, I am sorry.
> 
> And just to get you to understand, you are not equally at fault. She is a cheater, she does not even give 2 ****s about you.
> 
> BTW, cheaters lie a lot...


If you ever want to reconcile, and see if they really own their mistakes... ask them to commit to being monogamous with you while you aren't with them.

They'll refuse. And yet that's exactly what they did. Ergo, there's no real attempt at reconciliation, because the rules are different for you than they are for them.


----------



## lucy999

Wow. She has not even one scintilla of remorse. It was shocking to read her side of the conversation--it was hard to read, let alone you living it.

I'm really sorry. 

While extremely painful, your decision to divorce will save you a heap ton of pain in the future. It is the right decision.

You need to focus on you now. And only you. She is nowhere deserving or worthy enough to receive your love and respect.


----------



## Marc878

Oh wow the old jump into marriage counseling trick. Bud, this is how that goes. Marriage counselors are notorious rugsweepers. It’s why did you make your wife cheat? Hilarious 

The marriage isn’t broken your wayward wife is.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

lucy999 said:


> Wow. She has not even one scintilla of remorse. It was shocking to read her side of the conversation--it was hard to read, let alone you living it.
> 
> I'm really sorry.
> 
> While extremely painful, your decision to divorce will save you a heap ton of pain in the future. It is the right decision.
> 
> You need to focus on you now. And only you. She is nowhere deserving or worthy enough to receive your love and respect.


 I have seen more remorse from my dog for having an accident


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well I just got a dose of Rug Sweeping. WS asked if I was ready to go to marriage counselling and that she had been seeing someone individually last couple of days.
> 
> *But she continued her affair the day she left? Now she’s seen the light? Got it. It’s all your fault.*
> 
> I said I was not sure but that I needed to know she was fully committed to staying together and would jump rough all the hoops required to heal. I even shared an article about betrayed spouses and how they will act and how difficult it will be.
> 
> Here are some snippets of our conservation;
> 
> WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"
> 
> *Gaslighting 101- I cheated because you made me*
> 
> ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"
> 
> WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"
> 
> *I needed to make more time for my boyfriend so I could focus on my new relationship *
> 
> ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"
> 
> WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"
> 
> *Fingers crosses behind my back. Trying to keep a straight face.*
> 
> ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"
> 
> *Nope, she was boinking him on their trips together. *
> 
> WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"
> 
> *Blame shift 101*
> 
> ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe"
> 
> *And boinking Him on their trips together *
> 
> WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"
> 
> *Blame shift again*
> 
> WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"
> 
> *If you can’t rugsweep this poor little ole me won’t play ball*
> 
> I know what the right answer is, file for D tomorrow.


Bud, you stay in this you’ll just be in for more drama and wasted time/life you’ll never get back. plus a repeat even if this ends which it hasn’t.

I would have called her on the physical affair. Then you’ll be glad to take a polygraph, right? Just for kicks.


----------



## jlg07

One thing to be aware of -- since YOU said no to counseling, when you divorce SHE will say to everyone it's all YOUR fault. YOU didn't want to try -- she begged you to go to counseling,etc.. Just be prepared for it.


----------



## Marc878

No need to talk any further. Just D


----------



## Marc878

jlg07 said:


> One thing to be aware of -- since YOU said no to counseling, when you divorce SHE will say to everyone it's all YOUR fault. YOU didn't want to try -- she begged you to go to counseling,etc.. Just be prepared for it.


Just tell everyone you didn’t like her new boyfriend. Nuff said


----------



## Tilted 1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well I just got a dose of Rug Sweeping. WS asked if I was ready to go to marriage counselling and that she had been seeing someone individually last couple of days.
> 
> I said I was not sure but that I needed to know she was fully committed to staying together and would jump rough all the hoops required to heal. I even shared an article about betrayed spouses and how they will act and how difficult it will be.
> 
> Here are some snippets of our conservation;
> 
> WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"
> 
> ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"
> 
> WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"
> 
> ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"
> 
> WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"
> 
> ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"
> 
> WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"
> 
> ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe"
> 
> WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"
> 
> WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"
> 
> I know what the right answer is, file for D tomorrow.


Your sooo right rugsweeping, is on the menu. I am sure glad you're filing. It will mend your heart.


----------



## Tilted 1

jlg07 said:


> One thing to be aware of -- since YOU said no to counseling, when you divorce SHE will say to everyone it's all YOUR fault. YOU didn't want to try -- she begged you to go to counseling,etc.. Just be prepared for it.


But why should he care at this point, he's waaaaay ahead of her now.


----------



## jlg07

Tilted 1 said:


> But why should he care at this point, he's waaaaay ahead of her now.


I meant so that he could tell HIS family, friends, etc. to counteract the BS she will be spinning. NOT for her telling HIM that...


----------



## Tilted 1

It up to those who you know, but it really doesn't because they will believe you or not. JIGS is correct though if you want some damage control do so. JIGS is wise.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Welp, here is some advice if you do choose to try the counseling route, You absolutely DO NOT, go to this counselor. Your wife has already had at least one session and it has been PROVEN, the first story told tends to color the perceptions of people.

it is called Truth Bias,








Truth Bias


A psychological cloak for deception




www.psychologytoday.com





Pick a counselor that deals with infidelity and has no tie to you or your wife.

Her reaction to your demand, it is not a request, will tell you more about her behavior.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Welp, here is some advice if you do choose to try the counseling route, You absolutely DO NOT, go to this counselor. Your wife has already had at least one session and it has been PROVEN, the first story told tends to color the perceptions of people.
> 
> it is called Truth Bias,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth Bias
> 
> 
> A psychological cloak for deception
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.psychologytoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick a counselor that deals with infidelity and has no tie to you or your wife.
> 
> Her reaction to your demand, it is not a request, will tell you more about her behavior.


That is certainly a different route than many are suggesting


----------



## Buffer

Sorry this has come to D but she just isn’t all that into R. Rug sweeping to save face.
One day at a time
Buffer.


----------



## Tilted 1

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Welp, here is some advice if you do choose to try the counseling route, You absolutely DO NOT, go to this counselor. Your wife has already had at least one session and it has been PROVEN, the first story told tends to color the perceptions of people.
> 
> it is called Truth Bias,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth Bias
> 
> 
> A psychological cloak for deception
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.psychologytoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick a counselor that deals with infidelity and has no tie to you or your wife.
> 
> Her reaction to your demand, it is not a request, will tell you more about her behavior.


Something to be aware of, I see this happening alot in daily talking to anyone.


----------



## Robert22205

*WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"*

What she did was more than just fantasizing it involved a local man that she knew and could easily meet with face to face. Plus at the same time she had her 'fantasy' she told you she no longer loved you ... and needed to time to think about your relationship. That's not just a fantasy - that's real feelings for a real person. Therefore, her behavior (as well as her words to you) destroyed your trust that she was faithful. 

*WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"*

Not only is she refusing to accept 100% responsibility for her decision to have an affair, but she is attempting to change the topic and divert your attention away from the two issues of "did they have sex" ; and her affair destroyed your trust (regardless of whether they had sex). 

She's hoping that since you have no concrete proof of a PA that you will give her the benefit of the doubt. And she's hoping you'll just suck it up and trust her. That's why cheaters lie right up to the moment they are caught in the act.

At the very least, she should volunteer to take a polygraph test. It's a red flag that she hasn't.


----------



## Robert22205

A therapist that 's not trained or very experienced in infidelity applies the traditional MC approach - which is to spread the blame and move on. That approach does not work where there is infidelity.

The cheater has to first make themselves a safe partner and restore trust before there's any point in discussing shared issues.


----------



## Hoosier

"WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward""

Wow! Just Wow! NO FRICKING WAY IS ANY OF THE AFFAIR YOUR FAULT! My x tried that on me, and for a long time it haunted me that I didnt do something I should of, or did something I shouldnt. I analyze over and over times we were together trying to see what I missed/did. A pox on her. Next time please just laugh, shake your head slightly and disengage.


----------



## Marduk

Hoosier said:


> "WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward""


That's why I responded about monogamy. A good response to that line is "OK, I'll agree it's equally my fault here after we live for the same amount of time that you had the affair for where you are strictly monogamous to me and I sleep with whoever else I want. Then things will be equal, which is what you want, _right_?"


----------



## Tdbo

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well I just got a dose of Rug Sweeping. WS asked if I was ready to go to marriage counselling and that she had been seeing someone individually last couple of days.
> 
> I said I was not sure but that I needed to know she was fully committed to staying together and would jump rough all the hoops required to heal. I even shared an article about betrayed spouses and how they will act and how difficult it will be.
> 
> Here are some snippets of our conservation;
> 
> WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"
> 
> ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"
> 
> WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"
> 
> ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"
> 
> WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"
> 
> ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"
> 
> WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"
> 
> ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe"
> 
> WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"
> 
> WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"
> 
> I know what the right answer is, file for D tomorrow.



She wants to feast on cake. She wants you to gnaw on a poo panini.
Dump. her. azz.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Welp, here is some advice if you do choose to try the counseling route, You absolutely DO NOT, go to this counselor. Your wife has already had at least one session and it has been PROVEN, the first story told tends to color the perceptions of people.
> 
> it is called Truth Bias,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth Bias
> 
> 
> A psychological cloak for deception
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.psychologytoday.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick a counselor that deals with infidelity and has no tie to you or your wife.
> 
> Her reaction to your demand, it is not a request, will tell you more about her behavior.


Also, I strongly encourage you to consider a male counselor. Best advice I was given after deciding to R.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Also, I strongly encourage you to consider a male counselor. Best advice I was given after deciding to R.


I am curious to know why you think that is? I am currently looking for someone fort just myself as I try and learn how to digest my feelings.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Women tend to side with women. My cousin who is an LCSW advised me to do this.She was spot on. My MC held my FWW’s feet to the fire. As well as for IC, you need a male as they can identify with you far more than a female.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Women tend to side with women. My cousin who is an LCSW advised me to do this.She was spot on. My MC held my FWW’s feet to the fire. As well as for IC, you need a male as they can identify with you far more than a female.


Thanks


----------



## Marc878

Similar to what you’re going through.

The one thing you’ll see is this isn’t the end of the world.

You want even more pain and drama? Stay in it.

There is no one and only. There are many who can fit that bill. Don’t waste time/life on someone you’ll never trust.


----------



## Gabriel

Your wife's texts sound straight out of a counselor's mouth. As if it was what she was told to say. Maybe she didn't have a physical relationship - who knows. The only real thing that matters at this point is whether you want to be with your wife or not. If you do, then you'll have to listen and work and allow yourself to be open to making some behavioral changes that your wife says caused problems in your marriage. This doesn't mean letting her off the hook, but you'll have to agree to make changes as well. If you don't want to be with your wife anymore then don't spend money on counseling with her - just file and move down the path to divorce.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Gabriel said:


> Your wife's texts sound straight out of a counselor's mouth. As if it was what she was told to say. Maybe she didn't have a physical relationship - who knows. The only real thing that matters at this point is whether you want to be with your wife or not. If you do, then you'll have to listen and work and allow yourself to be open to making some behavioral changes that your wife says caused problems in your marriage. This doesn't mean letting her off the hook, but you'll have to agree to make changes as well. If you don't want to be with your wife anymore then don't spend money on counseling with her - just file and move down the path to divorce.


Thanks this was very well put and I think you've hit the nail on the head


----------



## Kamstel2

Sorry, but based upon what she said in those texts, your choice is to go back to someone that has cheated on you, feels like it was equally your fault, and will do it again, or file.

what would it take her to do for you to realize that she is not the woman you thought she was, she will cheat on you again, and you should file?

sorry, but you know what you have to do

good luck
Stay strong 
And keep your head up, you’ve done NOTHING wrong


----------



## Marc878

Gabriel said:


> Your wife's texts sound straight out of a counselor's mouth. As if it was what she was told to say. Maybe she didn't have a physical relationship - who knows. The only real thing that matters at this point is whether you want to be with your wife or not. If you do, then you'll have to listen and work and allow yourself to be open to making some behavioral changes that your wife says caused problems in your marriage. This doesn't mean letting her off the hook, but you'll have to agree to make changes as well. If you don't want to be with your wife anymore then don't spend money on counseling with her - just file and move down the path to divorce.


R takes 2.
Her current tone says it’s gotta be her way. MC very often = rugsweep.
Marital history rewrites are common in an affair. Her current MC/IC has only her side of the story.
Without the full truth it’s all a facade. Know what you’re dealing with. If need be demand a polygraph.
Dont set yourself up for failure or a repeat.


----------



## BluesPower

Gabriel said:


> Your wife's texts sound straight out of a counselor's mouth. As if it was what she was told to say. Maybe she didn't have a physical relationship - who knows. The only real thing that matters at this point is whether you want to be with your wife or not. If you do, then you'll have to listen and work and allow yourself to be open to making some behavioral changes that your wife says caused problems in your marriage. This doesn't mean letting her off the hook, but you'll have to agree to make changes as well. If you don't want to be with your wife anymore then don't spend money on counseling with her - just file and move down the path to divorce.


Gabe not at all dude.

NOTHING he did caused her to cheat. And you actually believe that two adults, in hotel rooms at a work event that are having an emotional affair did not have sex. 

Tell me you don't believe that. Because you know that is not how it went down. 

Adults have sex, they had sex. I know OP does not want to believe it but he needs to wake up. 

If you even consider staying with her, she has to pass a polygraph and you can figure out the questions. 

You are asking him to rug sweep an affair and that never ever works.


----------



## Marc878

This is totally up to you. No one else. Everyone/everything is on your timeline. 
I wouldn’t make any decisions until I was ready to.
Its a lot to take in and decipher. Take your time.


----------



## Affaircare

@Chicagohusband2020,

In my lifetime I was married young, and divorced in my mid-30's when my exH cheated and would not stop. I then married in my early 40's and cheated in the beginning of the marriage--we actually did the hard work and reconciled by building a completely, entirely new marriage, and he passed away when I was in my mid-50's. I'm now in my late 50's and on my third marriage. I tell you all this so that you know, I have some experience under my belt, and I've been a Wayward Wife. I know the foggy way that cheater's think, and I am here to tell you, it is NOT rational nor founded in reality. So allow me to translate your WS's texts for you, and then follow that up with REALITY. 

Let me start with this statement: my definition of cheating is *"Giving less than 100% of your affection, loyalty, and companionship to your spouse."* Now, some folks might say "Well I give some affection to my kids or my parents..." and my definition relates to the romantic kind of relationship a person has with a committed life partner. Yes, there are other kinds of love such as parent-child, owner-pet, or brother-sister...but we are focusing here on cheating in a committed life partner kind of relationship. When you commit, what you promise is that you will give ALL to your spouse and "forsake all others." So keep that definition of cheating in mind. 

Next, let's translate your WS's texts:

*WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"*
Translation - Sure I made a mistake, but you "made" me do it. Therefore, it's your fault, not mine. Let me shift the blame off me and onto you, and let me see if I can also make you second-guess yourself while I'm at it.
REALITY - Before committing adultery, you two were both responsible for your own contributions to the state of the marriage. I'm guessing that pre-adultery, it wasn't in great shape, and that you both were personally responsible for being part of the problem. So envision a house made of clay, and there were some cracks in the clay--maybe even serious cracks.

But ADULTERY is an nuclear bomb to the marriage, and SHE is the only one responsible for going nuclear. SHE did that and it is 100% hers. Her actions and her choices 100% are what put your marriage from "cracked clay" to obliterated dust. The natural consequence of committing adultery is losing the marriage, because the adulterer destroyed the marriage. So there is not "symptom of the issues." 

_ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"_

*WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"*
Translation - I wanted to be able to continue my emotional affair without guilt, and I didn't want there to be any consequences to my choice. You know...I want to have a boyfriend and the thrill of the chase, but not have to pay any price for it or feel any pain.
REALITY - EVERY choice has both a benefit and a cost. The choice to be married has the benefit of spouse providing for the needs spouse meets...and the cost of forsaking all others. The choice to cheat has the benefit of the thrill of "being wanted"...and the cost of losing the marriage. But she wants to have the benefit of cheating without losing the benefit of being married, and that is not how it works IN REALITY. In reality, space does not lead to deeper emotional connection...space does not lead to renewed intimacy...space does not lead to feeling less lonely. Space = Being Apart.

_ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"_

*WS - "No that would not have"
"I was not sleeping with him"
"I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"*
Translation - I've been at this for months and every day I have crossed the line just a little bit, a little more, a little more...day by day by day. Now I am a mile away from "crossing the line" but I've justified committing adultery. I realize I am making poor choices, but here's how I've justified doing wrong.
REALITY - Fidelity doesn't mean "How far can I go and not cross the line?" It means "How far away from the line can I stay?" She made a promise to give you 100% of her affection, loyalty and companionship, and she has given some percentage to another. She gave some percentage of her affection to another man because she said she had feelings of affection for him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her loyalty to another man because has offered her allegiance and devotion to him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her companionship to another man because she spent time with him, talked with him, flirted with him, and did fun things with him, and those are YOURS not his.

In reality, who knows whether or not they would have actually, physically had sex? What has already happened is that they have been emotionally connected, they have spoken sexually, they have "sexted", they have had digital sexual encounters--she wanted it and he wanted it. Thus the ONLY thing they haven't done is actual, physical sex.

_ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"_

*WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"*
Translation - Let's get the focus off me and my wrong-doing, and deflect from my poor behavior. Let's try a DARVO (Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim & Offender). I deny "sleeping" with another man--attack you for looking at porn--and now I am the victim and YOU are the offender!
REALITY - You aren't talking about what YOU have done or your bad actions. That's not to say you haven't done bad things, but this discussion is about HER and HER ADULTERY. Stay focused! In reality if she were remorseful for her infidelity, she would admit she was wrong and be calling it by name: adultery-infidelity-cheating. Instead she is nitpicking where it was "physical" or not..."sexual" or not. She's like Bill Clinton when he said: "I did not have sex with that woman!"

_ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe" _

*WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"*
Translation - This is more justifying adultery and DARVO. She is shifting the blame from herself to "both of you" or to you! She's thinking of adultery like "How far can I go before I cross the line?" She's also trying to sweep it under the rug and minimize what she's actually done.
REALITY - In reality, SHE COMMITTED ADULTERY. Even if she didn't have he guy's penis inserted, she gave her affection, loyalty and companionship to someone other than her spouse, and she broke her promise. Not you. In reality, this is not about the state of the marriage prior to her adultery...it is about the ADULTERY. Fantasy means that it's a dream that can't be attained and most likely won't become reality, and even if they couldn't afford to actually fly to be together, there was a very real possibility for this to become real if it weren't for the fact that you were in the way! She wanted it and the Other Man wanted it. So that's not just some generic fantasy about a XXX celebrity...it is just not the same. Comparing apples to oranges just deflects discussion from her adultery to you and second-guessing yourself (which is classic gaslighting).

*WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"*
Translation - I'll throw out a little threat here that will scare him into shutting up and doing it my way. He's too afraid to lose me to actually expect me to be faithful, so let's see if I can threaten him back into my control.
REALITY - You aren't "equally at fault here" and any person--religious counselor, parent or mentor, or even licensed therapist--who says you are, is not wise. Prior to adultery, yeah, there may have been behaviors you could have improved in order to be a better husband...just as there were behaviors she could have improved in order to be a better wife. But AFTER adultery? Nope, that is 100% ON HER. YOU have 0% responsibility for her choice to break her vows, live a life of deception, and destroy the marriage by dropping an atom bomb on it. You also have 0% responsibility to make the attempt to rebuild it. That's because the natural consequence of committing adultery is killing the marriage. Once she has acted in a way that results in death, you are within your right to just say "That is a deal-breaker for me and I choose to not attempt to recover at all. I choose to be done and will not even try." HER choice to COMMIT ADULTERY killed it--not your choice to not rebuild.


----------



## BluesPower

Great post @*Affaircare.* That is a really great job of translation. 

I still say it is physical, as if that really matters. They traveled out of town for work projects, they had sex. 

A polygraph with prove that, but my guess is she will refuse to take one, and that will be your answer anyway. 

Great job though...


----------



## Laurentium

Robert22205 said:


> A therapist that 's not trained or very experienced in infidelity applies the traditional MC approach - which is to spread the blame and move on. That approach does not work where there is infidelity.
> 
> The cheater has to first make themselves a safe partner and restore trust before there's any point in discussing shared issues.


Yeah, unfortunately this is true. Some therapists are like "can't we all just put this behind us and agree to get along?" 

And what @Affaircare said is right. The summary of those messages is that there is no remorse.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

BluesPower said:


> Great post That is a really great job of translation.
> 
> I still say it is physical, as if that really matters. They traveled out of town for work projects, they had sex.


Yep. Look only make changes IF there are legit problems you created. Personally, I think reconciliation fails because the betrayed takes too much on their plate and accepts way too much blame.

OP you need to approach It like it went physical. I have YET to see, hear, read or experience an affair hidden from friends that wasn’t physical.
Yes, IMO, it is THAT rare.


----------



## Gabriel

BluesPower said:


> Gabe not at all dude.
> 
> NOTHING he did caused her to cheat. And you actually believe that two adults, in hotel rooms at a work event that are having an emotional affair did not have sex.
> 
> Tell me you don't believe that. Because you know that is not how it went down.
> 
> Adults have sex, they had sex. I know OP does not want to believe it but he needs to wake up.
> 
> If you even consider staying with her, she has to pass a polygraph and you can figure out the questions.
> 
> You are asking him to rug sweep an affair and that never ever works.


I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. IF he wants to stay with his wife, he WILL need to work on the marriage, both in dealing with her affair and in being a partner his wife is needing. That is her condition to stay in the marriage. He can reject those conditions and divorce. Up to him.

If they only deal with the affair - his wife is showing that won't fly. So he has to take that into consideration as he makes his decision to stay or leave.

Cheating is never the answer. But often times it is a symptom of other problems. They can focus solely on the affair and if that's all they do, she'll probably just cheat again.

And she may very well be too far gone to stay with. Who knows.


----------



## BluesPower

Gabriel said:


> I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. IF he wants to stay with his wife, he WILL need to work on the marriage, both in dealing with her affair and in being a partner his wife is needing. That is her condition to stay in the marriage. He can reject those conditions and divorce. Up to him.
> 
> If they only deal with the affair - his wife is showing that won't fly. So he has to take that into consideration as he makes his decision to stay or leave.
> 
> Cheating is never the answer. But often times it is a symptom of other problems. They can focus solely on the affair and if that's all they do, she'll probably just cheat again.
> 
> And she may very well be too far gone to stay with. Who knows.


Actually, I think I understood perfectly.

Here is another way to put it.

When dealing with infidelity, any problems, short of abuse or something, absolutely take a back seat to infidelity.

EVERY THING ELSE takes a back seat. You have to deal with the cheating FIRST. Then after some time period, when and IF you can get over the infidelity you can continue to work on the marriage.

The sentiment in your post sounds like the crappy MC's that don't want to deal with the cheating first and before everything.

That is never the way to handle cheating. THE BS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR CHEATING. The person could have talked to them, could have to divorced them, could have tried other things, but they chose to cheat.

No man, I understood your post completely and I completely disagree with it in every way...


----------



## mickybill

FWIW my XW chose the woman MC as someone she vaguely knew from work projects. 
The MC was very fair and did not let my XW get away with anything.
And after our D, I went to a few IC sessions with the same counselor. At the first IC the C said that what she was going to say was unprofessional she thought my XW had "gone crazy" from how she knew her from years ago to the time of our D.
So it's all a crap shoot. I also tried a male IC and he was a dope.


----------



## mickybill

Have you brought up the idea of poly? Ask her to prove that they did not have sex when they had the multiple opportunities, she will say I can't prove a negative and you can say then you will pass the poly with flying colors. Let's do it if the lock down is ever lifted.....


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"
> 
> WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"
> 
> ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"
> 
> WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"


Chicagohusband2020, you did not ask your wife if she would write a no contact letter and more important give you the phone to recover deleted messages to prove she did not tell him she loved him, sent him pictures, or had sex with him. I think you shoud ask her to do both of those things. The no contact letter she gives to you to read, then mail. The phone you can bring to a forensic firm. If nothing was wrong, why lie to you about it EVEN WHEN YOU ASKED DIRECTLY. She LIED to you and stuck to that for weeks. WHY? Another question to ask - why should you believe her now after having lied by omission for months and months, then lied directly for 6 weeks afterward? You hear nothing about your supposed faults, then all of a sudden she's not in love with you and separating. How is anything equal when she hasn't been sincere, genuine, and honest to you day in and day out all the time she was supposedly feeling those feelings?

NOTE: Cheaters lie to therapists and counselors. No doubt she painted the therapist a picture of a lazy, inattentive husband who is at the same time controlling her and meanwhile is hypocritical wacking himself all the damn day long.

NOTE 2: Don't you think counselors cheat and do the exact same things your wife is doing? (HINT: I know a bunch of them). I've coached my kids' teams for years and you get to see a lot of crazy stuff from the kids' parents. As an aside, many times when a kid is messed up, when you meet the parents, you know why. More to the point, some of those parents were therapists, who were having affairs, separating, getting divorced - they have no more morals than anyone else. No lesser morals, but no more. I am not a fan of counseling unless you get a lucky one or you vet them well beforehand.

OK, the real deal here of how to handle this. Don't argue with her nonsense. Tell her once, don't keep repeating yourself, don't keep arguing or "discussing" the same stuff. Tell her what you want. I suggest the no contact letter, the phone to recover deleted messasges, and a written timeline of her relationship with this guy and when she crossed the line physically or emotionally.

Keep in mind, she started this with you with the ILYBINILWY and separation request blindsiding you, then lying to your face when you asked about another man.


----------



## SunCMars

Marc878 said:


> Similar to what you’re going through.
> 
> The one thing you’ll see is this isn’t the end of the world.
> 
> You want even more pain and drama? Stay in it.
> 
> There is no one and only. There are many who can fit that bill. Don’t waste time/life on someone you’ll never trust.


I watched this video.

Sorry, the guy is a smart-ass putz. 

He was a commitment-phobe, and a too-clever, arrogant SOB.

Yes, of course, she should have moved out, before cheating.


----------



## Marc878

I thought it highlighted gaslighting pretty well.


----------



## Gabriel

BluesPower said:


> Actually, I think I understood perfectly.
> 
> Here is another way to put it.
> 
> When dealing with infidelity, any problems, short of abuse or something, absolutely take a back seat to infidelity.
> 
> EVERY THING ELSE takes a back seat. You have to deal with the cheating FIRST. Then after some time period, when and IF you can get over the infidelity you can continue to work on the marriage.
> 
> The sentiment in your post sounds like the crappy MC's that don't want to deal with the cheating first and before everything.
> 
> That is never the way to handle cheating. THE BS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR CHEATING. The person could have talked to them, could have to divorced them, could have tried other things, but they chose to cheat.
> 
> No man, I understood your post completely and I completely disagree with it in every way...


I must not be making myself clear.....

She has set these conditions. And they are NOT appropriate conditions. But they are the conditions he has been presented with. So that is the hoop he has to jump through if he wants to move forward with her.

In his shoes, no freaking way I'd agree to the conditions. But it's not my decision. It's his.


----------



## BluesPower

Gabriel said:


> I must not be making myself clear.....
> 
> She has set these conditions. And they are NOT appropriate conditions. But they are the conditions he has been presented with. So that is the hoop he has to jump through if he wants to move forward with her.
> 
> In his shoes, no freaking way I'd agree to the conditions. But it's not my decision. It's his.


No he does not have to do anything. Her conditions are silly at multiple levels.

If he does jump through any hoops the he is a fool. If she does not change her tune, he should file for divorce...


----------



## Lostinthought61

You can always file for divorce, serve her and tell her she either fight for her marriage or continue to rug sweep her affair.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> Chicagohusband2020, you did not ask your wife if she would write a no contact letter and more important give you the phone to recover deleted messages to prove she did not tell him she loved him, sent him pictures, or had sex with him. I think you shoud ask her to do both of those things. The no contact letter she gives to you to read, then mail. The phone you can bring to a forensic firm. If nothing was wrong, why lie to you about it EVEN WHEN YOU ASKED DIRECTLY. She LIED to you and stuck to that for weeks. WHY? Another question to ask - why should you believe her now after having lied by omission for months and months, then lied directly for 6 weeks afterward? You hear nothing about your supposed faults, then all of a sudden she's not in love with you and separating. How is anything equal when she hasn't been sincere, genuine, and honest to you day in and day out all the time she was supposedly feeling those feelings?
> 
> NOTE: Cheaters lie to therapists and counselors. No doubt she painted the therapist a picture of a lazy, inattentive husband who is at the same time controlling her and meanwhile is hypocritical wacking himself all the damn day long.
> 
> NOTE 2: Don't you think counselors cheat and do the exact same things your wife is doing? (HINT: I know a bunch of them). I've coached my kids' teams for years and you get to see a lot of crazy stuff from the kids' parents. As an aside, many times when a kid is messed up, when you meet the parents, you know why. More to the point, some of those parents were therapists, who were having affairs, separating, getting divorced - they have no more morals than anyone else. No lesser morals, but no more. I am not a fan of counseling unless you get a lucky one or you vet them well beforehand.
> 
> OK, the real deal here of how to handle this. Don't argue with her nonsense. Tell her once, don't keep repeating yourself, don't keep arguing or "discussing" the same stuff. Tell her what you want. I suggest the no contact letter, the phone to recover deleted messasges, and a written timeline of her relationship with this guy and when she crossed the line physically or emotionally.
> 
> Keep in mind, she started this with you with the ILYBINILWY and separation request blindsiding you, then lying to your face when you asked about another man.


Just want to clarify; they did no speak over text used different apps where messages are not recoverable. 

She has already admitted she told him she loved him and sent and received number explicate pictures and videos 

Agree with everything else you have said


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Marc878 said:


> I thought it highlighted gaslighting pretty well.


It did and I could relate, thanks for posting


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Just want to clarify; they did no speak over text used different apps where messages are not recoverable.
> 
> She has already admitted she told him she loved him and sent and received number explicate pictures and videos
> 
> Agree with everything else you have said


The thing is if she’s doing the “I love you”, sending nude pic’s and vids why would they not have sex when they’re on a trip together with available hotel rooms? They wouldn’t.

Cheaters lie a lot and will sometimes throw out part but not all.

While possible it’s not very probable.

A lot of betrayed spouses want to believe badly so they do. Logic says she’s trickle truthing and minimizing trying to make herself look as good as possible. Probably knowing the full truth could be a dealbreaker.

A lot will admit to just kissing (which historically equals sex). Most will always lie about the sexual side of the affair until it can be proven or verified.


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> It did and I could relate, thanks for posting


If you noticed she lied right up to the last about having sex with her OM even with all facts pointing to it. Common.

Your situation is no different in this case. Away on a trip together.

Shes trying to maintain control.


----------



## Beach123

For sure she is trying to gain the upper hand by over powering you and setting up rules for you to follow 🙄

ya know, what she is doing now to you (after cheating and denying it) is a special kind of abuse - she’s despicable.

don’t tolerate it for one more second! She’s not sorry at all that she did it! She definitely will keep doing it.

Don’t even give her a hint of reconciling! She will get the clear idea you deserve way better when she is served the divorce papers! It’s not even worth any more conversations when she’s trying to blame you for HER bad behavior. She is a blatant liar!

and I agree - any gal telling a guy she loves him and has sent nudies - definitely had sex with him if they go on business trips together. She doesn’t deserve you - and you can tell her that!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Gabriel said:


> I must not be making myself clear.....
> 
> She has set these conditions. And they are NOT appropriate conditions. But they are the conditions he has been presented with. So that is the hoop he has to jump through if he wants to move forward with her.
> 
> In his shoes, no freaking way I'd agree to the conditions. But it's not my decision. It's his.


There are hoops and he can be the leader or the follower. There is this thing called compromise or dictate. She offered terms and then he offers his terms. They can compromise, he can dictate what she needs to do and same for her.

he still has a choice, you make it sound like it is her way or divorce. I think that is the problem coming out of your post.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Marc878 said:


> The thing is if she’s doing the “I love you”, sending nude pic’s and vids why would they not have sex when they’re on a trip together with available hotel rooms? They wouldn’t.
> 
> Cheaters lie a lot and will sometimes throw out part but not all.
> 
> While possible it’s not very probable.
> 
> A lot of betrayed spouses want to believe badly so they do. Logic says she’s trickle truthing and minimizing trying to make herself look as good as possible. Probably knowing the full truth could be a dealbreaker.
> 
> A lot will admit to just kissing (which historically equals sex). Most will always lie about the sexual side of the affair until it can be proven or verified.


Exactly.
I’d draw OP’s line as well if they didn’t travel alone together, he found no evidence of unknown actions on trips and they lived thousands of miles apart. Then, I might believe no contact occurred. Explicit pictures, untraceable conversations, deleted conversations, ILYBINILWY speech, STILL wanted separation, hid trip activities from an alleged business trip and now shifts the blame to you.

Seriously, have you even checked to see if ALL of the travel was business? We all have heard of or know people who _traveled_ and then their marriage falls apart do to infidelity. We find out later some or all the trips were lies.


----------



## Blondilocks

Affaircare said:


> @Chicagohusband2020,
> 
> In my lifetime I was married young, and divorced in my mid-30's when my exH cheated and would not stop. I then married in my early 40's and cheated in the beginning of the marriage--we actually did the hard work and reconciled by building a completely, entirely new marriage, and he passed away when I was in my mid-50's. I'm now in my late 50's and on my third marriage. I tell you all this so that you know, I have some experience under my belt, and I've been a Wayward Wife. I know the foggy way that cheater's think, and I am here to tell you, it is NOT rational nor founded in reality. So allow me to translate your WS's texts for you, and then follow that up with REALITY.
> 
> Let me start with this statement: my definition of cheating is *"Giving less than 100% of your affection, loyalty, and companionship to your spouse."* Now, some folks might say "Well I give some affection to my kids or my parents..." and my definition relates to the romantic kind of relationship a person has with a committed life partner. Yes, there are other kinds of love such as parent-child, owner-pet, or brother-sister...but we are focusing here on cheating in a committed life partner kind of relationship. When you commit, what you promise is that you will give ALL to your spouse and "forsake all others." So keep that definition of cheating in mind.
> 
> Next, let's translate your WS's texts:
> 
> *WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"*
> Translation - Sure I made a mistake, but you "made" me do it. Therefore, it's your fault, not mine. Let me shift the blame off me and onto you, and let me see if I can also make you second-guess yourself while I'm at it.
> REALITY - Before committing adultery, you two were both responsible for your own contributions to the state of the marriage. I'm guessing that pre-adultery, it wasn't in great shape, and that you both were personally responsible for being part of the problem. So envision a house made of clay, and there were some cracks in the clay--maybe even serious cracks.
> 
> But ADULTERY is an nuclear bomb to the marriage, and SHE is the only one responsible for going nuclear. SHE did that and it is 100% hers. Her actions and her choices 100% are what put your marriage from "cracked clay" to obliterated dust. The natural consequence of committing adultery is losing the marriage, because the adulterer destroyed the marriage. So there is not "symptom of the issues."
> 
> _ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"_
> 
> *WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"*
> Translation - I wanted to be able to continue my emotional affair without guilt, and I didn't want there to be any consequences to my choice. You know...I want to have a boyfriend and the thrill of the chase, but not have to pay any price for it or feel any pain.
> REALITY - EVERY choice has both a benefit and a cost. The choice to be married has the benefit of spouse providing for the needs spouse meets...and the cost of forsaking all others. The choice to cheat has the benefit of the thrill of "being wanted"...and the cost of losing the marriage. But she wants to have the benefit of cheating without losing the benefit of being married, and that is not how it works IN REALITY. In reality, space does not lead to deeper emotional connection...space does not lead to renewed intimacy...space does not lead to feeling less lonely. Space = Being Apart.
> 
> _ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"_
> 
> *WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"*
> Translation - I've been at this for months and every day I have crossed the line just a little bit, a little more, a little more...day by day by day. Now I am a mile away from "crossing the line" but I've justified committing adultery. I realize I am making poor choices, but here's how I've justified doing wrong.
> REALITY - Fidelity doesn't mean "How far can I go and not cross the line?" It means "How far away from the line can I stay?" She made a promise to give you 100% of her affection, loyalty and companionship, and she has given some percentage to another. She gave some percentage of her affection to another man because she said she had feelings of affection for him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her loyalty to another man because has offered her allegiance and devotion to him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her companionship to another man because she spent time with him, talked with him, flirted with him, and did fun things with him, and those are YOURS not his.
> 
> In reality, who knows whether or not they would have actually, physically had sex? What has already happened is that they have been emotionally connected, they have spoken sexually, they have "sexted", they have had digital sexual encounters--she wanted it and he wanted it. Thus the ONLY thing they haven't done is actual, physical sex.
> 
> _ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"_
> 
> *WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"*
> Translation - Let's get the focus off me and my wrong-doing, and deflect from my poor behavior. Let's try a DARVO (Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim & Offender). I deny "sleeping" with another man--attack you for looking at porn--and now I am the victim and YOU are the offender!
> REALITY - You aren't talking about what YOU have done or your bad actions. That's not to say you haven't done bad things, but this discussion is about HER and HER ADULTERY. Stay focused! In reality if she were remorseful for her infidelity, she would admit she was wrong and be calling it by name: adultery-infidelity-cheating. Instead she is nitpicking where it was "physical" or not..."sexual" or not. She's like Bill Clinton when he said: "I did not have sex with that woman!"
> 
> _ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe" _
> 
> *WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"*
> Translation - This is more justifying adultery and DARVO. She is shifting the blame from herself to "both of you" or to you! She's thinking of adultery like "How far can I go before I cross the line?" She's also trying to sweep it under the rug and minimize what she's actually done.
> REALITY - In reality, SHE COMMITTED ADULTERY. Even if she didn't have he guy's penis inserted, she gave her affection, loyalty and companionship to someone other than her spouse, and she broke her promise. Not you. In reality, this is not about the state of the marriage prior to her adultery...it is about the ADULTERY. Fantasy means that it's a dream that can't be attained and most likely won't become reality, and even if they couldn't afford to actually fly to be together, there was a very real possibility for this to become real if it weren't for the fact that you were in the way! She wanted it and the Other Man wanted it. So that's not just some generic fantasy about a XXX celebrity...it is just not the same. Comparing apples to oranges just deflects discussion from her adultery to you and second-guessing yourself (which is classic gaslighting).
> 
> *WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"*
> Translation - I'll throw out a little threat here that will scare him into shutting up and doing it my way. He's too afraid to lose me to actually expect me to be faithful, so let's see if I can threaten him back into my control.
> REALITY - You aren't "equally at fault here" and any person--religious counselor, parent or mentor, or even licensed therapist--who says you are, is not wise. Prior to adultery, yeah, there may have been behaviors you could have improved in order to be a better husband...just as there were behaviors she could have improved in order to be a better wife. But AFTER adultery? Nope, that is 100% ON HER. YOU have 0% responsibility for her choice to break her vows, live a life of deception, and destroy the marriage by dropping an atom bomb on it. You also have 0% responsibility to make the attempt to rebuild it. That's because the natural consequence of committing adultery is killing the marriage. Once she has acted in a way that results in death, you are within your right to just say "That is a deal-breaker for me and I choose to not attempt to recover at all. I choose to be done and will not even try." HER choice to COMMIT ADULTERY killed it--not your choice to not rebuild.


Brava! This deserves a standing ovation, AC.


----------



## Gabriel

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Just want to clarify; they did no speak over text used different apps where messages are not recoverable.
> 
> She has already admitted she told him she loved him and sent and received number explicate pictures and videos
> 
> Agree with everything else you have said


Love is a hard thing to overcome. The explicit photos are very suspicious that more has happened. If you want to try to make this work, you might want to consider a polygraph. They aren't fool proof by any means, but you might get a "parking lot confession" where she caves and comes out with the truth before actually taking the test. I mean, if she is so adamant that it's never gotten physical, ask, "You willing to prove it with a polygraph?" She what she says.

I was in your shoes once. Only there were no pictures, etc. And they didn't have conventions or work together. Emails I caught proved it hadn't yet gotten physical - I caught it in time. But she admitted she loved him. It doesn't just go away. There has to be a strict no-contact ultimatum. ANY contact resets the love back to square one and you have to start over. There is no middle ground here. 

Either you demand that, or you let her go.


----------



## NickiV

I am all for forgiveness in this life but then the other person must be committed to try again. She doesn't seem to want that. I always think it is easier for men to cheat in the moment because of lust. Most probably women too but it sounds as if she has already detached herself emotionally from you. I am really feeling for you. Be strong but I do not agree with hate speech or a revenge attitude. You will only loose yourself even more and take much longer to heal. It is natural to hurt back if you have been hurt but fight against this! Use your layers advise and keep it as clinical as possible.


----------



## Hoosier

Affaircare said:


> @Chicagohusband2020,
> 
> In my lifetime I was married young, and divorced in my mid-30's when my exH cheated and would not stop. I then married in my early 40's and cheated in the beginning of the marriage--we actually did the hard work and reconciled by building a completely, entirely new marriage, and he passed away when I was in my mid-50's. I'm now in my late 50's and on my third marriage. I tell you all this so that you know, I have some experience under my belt, and I've been a Wayward Wife. I know the foggy way that cheater's think, and I am here to tell you, it is NOT rational nor founded in reality. So allow me to translate your WS's texts for you, and then follow that up with REALITY.
> 
> Let me start with this statement: my definition of cheating is *"Giving less than 100% of your affection, loyalty, and companionship to your spouse."* Now, some folks might say "Well I give some affection to my kids or my parents..." and my definition relates to the romantic kind of relationship a person has with a committed life partner. Yes, there are other kinds of love such as parent-child, owner-pet, or brother-sister...but we are focusing here on cheating in a committed life partner kind of relationship. When you commit, what you promise is that you will give ALL to your spouse and "forsake all others." So keep that definition of cheating in mind.
> 
> Next, let's translate your WS's texts:
> 
> *WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what i did was wrong and I own that it is a symptom of the issues we had before and we have to fix those moving forward"*
> Translation - Sure I made a mistake, but you "made" me do it. Therefore, it's your fault, not mine. Let me shift the blame off me and onto you, and let me see if I can also make you second-guess yourself while I'm at it.
> REALITY - Before committing adultery, you two were both responsible for your own contributions to the state of the marriage. I'm guessing that pre-adultery, it wasn't in great shape, and that you both were personally responsible for being part of the problem. So envision a house made of clay, and there were some cracks in the clay--maybe even serious cracks.
> 
> But ADULTERY is an nuclear bomb to the marriage, and SHE is the only one responsible for going nuclear. SHE did that and it is 100% hers. Her actions and her choices 100% are what put your marriage from "cracked clay" to obliterated dust. The natural consequence of committing adultery is losing the marriage, because the adulterer destroyed the marriage. So there is not "symptom of the issues."
> 
> _ME " Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile"_
> 
> *WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better"*
> Translation - I wanted to be able to continue my emotional affair without guilt, and I didn't want there to be any consequences to my choice. You know...I want to have a boyfriend and the thrill of the chase, but not have to pay any price for it or feel any pain.
> REALITY - EVERY choice has both a benefit and a cost. The choice to be married has the benefit of spouse providing for the needs spouse meets...and the cost of forsaking all others. The choice to cheat has the benefit of the thrill of "being wanted"...and the cost of losing the marriage. But she wants to have the benefit of cheating without losing the benefit of being married, and that is not how it works IN REALITY. In reality, space does not lead to deeper emotional connection...space does not lead to renewed intimacy...space does not lead to feeling less lonely. Space = Being Apart.
> 
> _ME "But that whole time you where telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me"_
> 
> *WS - "No that would not have"
> "I was not sleeping with him"
> "I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him"*
> Translation - I've been at this for months and every day I have crossed the line just a little bit, a little more, a little more...day by day by day. Now I am a mile away from "crossing the line" but I've justified committing adultery. I realize I am making poor choices, but here's how I've justified doing wrong.
> REALITY - Fidelity doesn't mean "How far can I go and not cross the line?" It means "How far away from the line can I stay?" She made a promise to give you 100% of her affection, loyalty and companionship, and she has given some percentage to another. She gave some percentage of her affection to another man because she said she had feelings of affection for him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her loyalty to another man because has offered her allegiance and devotion to him, and those are YOURS not his. She gave some percentage of her companionship to another man because she spent time with him, talked with him, flirted with him, and did fun things with him, and those are YOURS not his.
> 
> In reality, who knows whether or not they would have actually, physically had sex? What has already happened is that they have been emotionally connected, they have spoken sexually, they have "sexted", they have had digital sexual encounters--she wanted it and he wanted it. Thus the ONLY thing they haven't done is actual, physical sex.
> 
> _ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind"_
> 
> *WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn"*
> Translation - Let's get the focus off me and my wrong-doing, and deflect from my poor behavior. Let's try a DARVO (Deny-Attack-Reverse Victim & Offender). I deny "sleeping" with another man--attack you for looking at porn--and now I am the victim and YOU are the offender!
> REALITY - You aren't talking about what YOU have done or your bad actions. That's not to say you haven't done bad things, but this discussion is about HER and HER ADULTERY. Stay focused! In reality if she were remorseful for her infidelity, she would admit she was wrong and be calling it by name: adultery-infidelity-cheating. Instead she is nitpicking where it was "physical" or not..."sexual" or not. She's like Bill Clinton when he said: "I did not have sex with that woman!"
> 
> _ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe" _
> 
> *WS - "Its still fantasizing about being with someone else"*
> Translation - This is more justifying adultery and DARVO. She is shifting the blame from herself to "both of you" or to you! She's thinking of adultery like "How far can I go before I cross the line?" She's also trying to sweep it under the rug and minimize what she's actually done.
> REALITY - In reality, SHE COMMITTED ADULTERY. Even if she didn't have he guy's penis inserted, she gave her affection, loyalty and companionship to someone other than her spouse, and she broke her promise. Not you. In reality, this is not about the state of the marriage prior to her adultery...it is about the ADULTERY. Fantasy means that it's a dream that can't be attained and most likely won't become reality, and even if they couldn't afford to actually fly to be together, there was a very real possibility for this to become real if it weren't for the fact that you were in the way! She wanted it and the Other Man wanted it. So that's not just some generic fantasy about a XXX celebrity...it is just not the same. Comparing apples to oranges just deflects discussion from her adultery to you and second-guessing yourself (which is classic gaslighting).
> 
> *WS - "If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward"*
> Translation - I'll throw out a little threat here that will scare him into shutting up and doing it my way. He's too afraid to lose me to actually expect me to be faithful, so let's see if I can threaten him back into my control.
> REALITY - You aren't "equally at fault here" and any person--religious counselor, parent or mentor, or even licensed therapist--who says you are, is not wise. Prior to adultery, yeah, there may have been behaviors you could have improved in order to be a better husband...just as there were behaviors she could have improved in order to be a better wife. But AFTER adultery? Nope, that is 100% ON HER. YOU have 0% responsibility for her choice to break her vows, live a life of deception, and destroy the marriage by dropping an atom bomb on it. You also have 0% responsibility to make the attempt to rebuild it. That's because the natural consequence of committing adultery is killing the marriage. Once she has acted in a way that results in death, you are within your right to just say "That is a deal-breaker for me and I choose to not attempt to recover at all. I choose to be done and will not even try." HER choice to COMMIT ADULTERY killed it--not your choice to not rebuild.



Awesome post! Not just the advice but spot on translations! Great Job AC


----------



## Kamstel2

How are you doing?
Did you ever meet with the lawyer?


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Kamstel2 said:


> How are you doing?
> Did you ever meet with the lawyer?


Doing the best I can, trying to stay busy. Taking time to reflect and figure out what I want to do, and whats best for me. All of the posts and advice are very helpful. 

Yes I did the day after I found out about the A


----------



## Marc878

What you want may not matter. It takes 2 for an R or marriage.

Hopefully you have enough info to read the signs.


----------



## Taxman

Chicago, lets do shock and awe. This is a person who is trying to manipulate the situation to her best outcome. Sorry, no. As I have said, I have successfully defended against a spousal support increase due to job loss. Just pointed out that she lost her job because of disobeying the employee manual. Job loss was assessed as her own fault, no increase. 

Therefore, if I were advising you, I would expose her at work. It may ultimately be humiliating, but thats the price to pay. Just so everyone knows that the project cost her a marriage, and a job. Then report the other man. Let him blame your wife for his job loss. That is the formula for isolation. Now your wife has no job, no AP, and will have to deal with you. You will be dealing from a position of power. If you choose to divorce, her consequences are earth shattering. If you choose to reconcile, it will be on your terms. Sorry if I sound like a major prick, but I cannot stand when the good guy gets shafted. You sir, were well on your way to be shafted, shaft her. I suggest that the D papers be filed, then expose. It takes the advantage out of her hands completely.


----------



## OutofRetirement

What was your marriage like before the affair? 

Was there a point in time where it seemed she changed towards you (or you towards her)?


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> What was your marriage like before the affair?
> 
> Was there a point in time where it seemed she changed towards you (or you towards her)?


I have thought about that a lot recently. Nothing I can really put my finger on. In fact most people I have told where shocked said it was the last couple the thought this would happen to

I need to really think back and reflect. Sometimes you don't notice the small changes when you are in it daily. Like a frog in room temperature to boiling water


----------



## Beach123

Honestly... it doesn’t matter how it was then.
Deal with how it is now! If she isn’t being a good wife then do some things to change it!
Nothing changes if nothing changes. It is ONLY up to you to invoke change if you are the one who doesn’t like it.


----------



## Buffer

Tell her that the pictures and videos are now on the internet, she has no control once she pressed send!
Buffer.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I have thought about that a lot recently. Nothing I can really put my finger on. In fact most people I have told where shocked said it was the last couple the thought this would happen to
> 
> I need to really think back and reflect. Sometimes you don't notice the small changes when you are in it daily. Like a frog in room temperature to boiling water


If I understood the new website, I’d get you 5 or 6 quotes containing “people were shocked it was us” posts From both male and female spouses.

Hindsight will always be 20/20. Reflect on behaviors in yourself you can change, not on what you missed.


----------



## skerzoid

Chicagohusband2020:


*It would probably be best to have her served.* If she gets her head out of her nether regions, it can be stopped. She doesn't think you are serious. Nothing gives you a wake-up call like D papers.
*Continue the 180 and tighten it up.*
*Individual Counseling.* Marriage counseling with a WW is a waste of time and money.
*Separate Finances.* Checking, Credit Cards, Insurance, Will, everything. Get your ducks in a row.
*All Communications & Media Transparent.* There is no guarantee however, she can always find a way to communicate with OM.
*She writes a No Contact Letter, edited by you, and sends it, CC with you.*
*She writes a timeline of the affair to be checked against a polygraph*. Amazing confessions many times take place in the parking lot before the test.
*She must write out an apology and a plan of what she will do to Reconcile.*
*Have a VAR (voice-activated recorder) on you when speaking with her.*
*When confronting, it is good to have a crib-sheet of the points you wish to make.* 
*Continue with your "Strength & Honor" attitude.* You are doing well, keep it up.


----------



## TDSC60

R would depend on polygraph results confirming that she did not do anything sexual with him while on a work trip.

Then you have to decide if you can ever trust her again. 
Can she keep her job? Can she go on work trips and not drive you crazy wondering what she is doing?


----------



## Gabriel

TDSC60 said:


> R would depend on polygraph results confirming that she did not do anything sexual with him while on a work trip.
> 
> Then you have to decide if you can ever trust her again.
> Can she keep her job? Can she go on work trips and not drive you crazy wondering what she is doing?


Agree. Understand YOU are the one who gets to choose. 

It's honestly time for YOU to make conditions. Her reaction to those will tell you everything you need to know. 

Here's how you squash emotional affairs like this one....from someone who has done it.

1) You demand no contact. It's non-negotiable. You tell her she complies or you file. If she breaks, you file. And you let her know that you will tell everyone what's happened.

2) She gives you all her passwords, let's you check for proof of compliance.

3) Then, YOU get to decide if with enough compliance, you can proceed with the marriage.

The only "cure" for someone who falls in extra-marital puppy love is to erase the person - take the drug away. As long as that drug hangs around, she has no shot of changing her feelings for him. You cannot compete with a fantasy. Affairs don't involve bills, house chores and kids, and the rigors of real life. You'll never beat a fantasy with your real life issues. So you have to eradicate him from her life for any hope of recovery.

And, look, just because she comes around doesn't mean you have to stay married. You can pull that rug from under her any time. She broke the vows - you have every right to reject her.


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## TDSC60

R typically means that you forgive her for what she has done. You have to be at least willing to forgive to even start R and recover the marriage.

How can you forgive if YOU DO NOT KNOW what they did on the trips? Polygraph.


----------



## Beach123

What’s the update?


----------



## Kamstel2

Chicago, ALWAYS listen to and follow the advice of Taxman. He has been in the divorce field for decades and has probably seen it all! Personally, I want him to write a book about his experiences as a way of helping people who are trying to deal with being cheated on by their spouse!

Stay strong


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Beach123 said:


> What’s the update?


Well we are living apart as most of you are aware. To be honest we haven't spoken much outside of the exchange form earlier this week I posted on the board a few days ago and another exchange on Friday night. Was unfortunately more of the same, focused on herself. She was upset that some members of my family have deleted her from Social media. Says my family hating her makes it harder to get back together. Seems oblivious that there are consequences to what she has done, she hurt not only me but others like my family.

Doesn't seem to be empathy remorse or even an acknowledgement of what has happened. She seems focused on working with her therapist on what she did to "contribute" to what got us here.


----------



## lucy999

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> She was upset that some members of my family have deleted her from Social media. Says my family hating her makes it harder to get back together. Seems oblivious that there are consequences to what she has done, she hurt not only me but others like my family.


I've said it a million times. I'll never ever understand how a cheater's mind works. The audacity of her to be upset that your family has deleted her from social media. That should be the very least of her worries.

Do you know what your short/longish plan is? Are you really holding out hope that this can be salvaged? Here's a hint: with her attitude,no way in hell it can. As long as she says the words "contributed" and things of that nature when talking about her affair, she has learned nothing--therapist or no.

I don't recommend leading her on if you're sure of divorce. And I realize D day wasn't long ago. You don't have to decide right this minute. But don't languish, either when the answer is staring you in the face. I urge you to pay attention to her actions,not her words.

And I'm not saying this to rub salt in your wounds. And others have already said it. But you do realize, don't you, that this is open season for her and the other man to do what they want, physically, emo,whatever, right? Don't think for one minute she is alone reflecting on her horrible actions. She's not.

And should you decide to R, I strongly recommend STD testing before you have sex with her again.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

lucy999 said:


> I've said it a million times. I'll never ever understand how a cheater's mind works. The audacity of her to be upset that your family has deleted her from social media. That should be the very least of her worries.


 It is definitely impossible to understand but damn if it isn't predictable to the point of being cliched.


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## Lostinthought61

Remind her that until she comes to terms with her transgressions there is no "us". "us" no longer exists


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## Gabriel

Classic case. Wife is unhappy with something in the marriage. Lowers boundaries, allows another man to get close. Feels amazing. Gets caught. Now that it's caught, wife says "sorry" but wants husband to fix things so she can have her safe life undisturbed. Any consequences are really unnecessary and feel like "punishment". Instead of getting her normal life back with a sorry, she realizes it won't be that easy. Now wonders if it's worth it to go through all that to get the safe life back.

Happens every day all over the world. Hundreds of times on this board.


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## Marduk

lucy999 said:


> I've said it a million times. I'll never ever understand how a cheater's mind works. The audacity of her to be upset that your family has deleted her from social media. That should be the very least of her worries.


In my experience, a cheater's mind works just like everyone else's - it just lacks any integrity.

Because it lacks integrity, it constantly seeks to gift itself with anything it can get, without working for it. This could be attention, sex, compliments, money, status, power... 

And because it lacks integrity, everything bad that happens to them is someone else's fault. No matter how many bad things they do, they remain the hero of their own story. If they do bad, it's because someone else made them do it, or it wasn't actually a bad thing, or it was the 'least bad thing.'

Integrity is really the only thing that holds back many people from acting this way. It also leads to empathy, selflessness, a strong work ethic, etc. It really is the key to many things in my opinion.

And once I took this perspective, I realized why cheaters often are lazy, selfish, and fraudulent in many aspects of their life - not just with infidelity.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Gabriel said:


> Classic case. Wife is unhappy with something in the marriage. Lowers boundaries, allows another man to get close. Feels amazing. Gets caught. Now that it's caught, wife says "sorry" but wants husband to fix things so she can have her safe life undisturbed. Any consequences are really unnecessary and feel like "punishment". Instead of getting her normal life back with a sorry, she realizes it won't be that easy. Now wonders if it's worth it to go through all that to get the safe life back.
> 
> Happens every day all over the world. Hundreds of times on this board.


I am starting to see the writing on the wall


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## Marc878

There are specifics to offer R. You don’t have them.
if you want a fairy tale ending buy a book or rent a movie.
Repeats happen all the time. How’d you like going through it the first time?


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I am starting to see the writing on the wall


Listen, man. Millions of people are unhappy in their marriage, and their response to being unhappy isn't to cheat. It's to leave, it's to work on the marriage, etc. But not to cheat. Therefore, cheating is not excusable due to being in an unhappy marriage.

Many people report being happy in their marriage right before they cheat. Therefore, a happy marriage does not bulletproof a marriage from cheating. In fact, many (if not most) cheaters eventually admit that the cheating had nothing to do with the marriage once everything is far enough in the rear view mirror.

Her cheating in all likelihood has nothing at all to do with you or your marriage. Instead, it has everything to do with her near total lack of integrity.

Which makes her a problematic person to bet your emotional and financial well being on to begin with.

You have a gift here, man. The gift of her easy absence if you just pull the pin right now.


----------



## Robert22205

All folks get depressed, discouraged, have to deal with health issues, get angry, sad, feel ignored or unappreciated, or have trauma in their past - but they don't cheat. Everyone has a choice/options to choose from - your wife chose to cheat.

And it wasn't just a single mistake. She was building a relationship with another man - until you caught/interupted her. She told you she "loved you but didn't love you...." and that she needed space. 

All evidence that she was preparing to exit your relationship.

Forgive me if you've answered this but it sounds like when she moved out - the OM didn't take the bait. So she's now looking at you.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Robert22205 said:


> All folks get depressed, discouraged, have to deal with health issues, get angry, sad, feel ignored or unappreciated, or have trauma in their past - but they don't cheat. Everyone has a choice/options to choose from - your wife chose to cheat.
> 
> And it wasn't just a single mistake. She was building a relationship with another man - until you caught/interupted her. She told you she "loved you but didn't love you...." and that she needed space.
> 
> All evidence that she was preparing to exit your relationship.
> 
> Forgive me if you've answered this but it sounds like when she moved out - the OM didn't take the bait. So she's now looking at you.



Well I had her delete and block him from all social media. The other man lives in another country and is 2,500 miles away. I am not sure what her long-term plan was, LD relationship, one of them moves, or if she would have ditched him to and found someone local

She said she has not communicated with him in the last week but as you all know unblocking someone is easy to do when you are living together and able to check the phone daily.


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## Robert22205

They work for the same firm don't they? Therefore, they can stay in touch through company email and/or text.


----------



## MattMatt

Robert22205 said:


> They work for the same firm don't they? Therefore, they can stay in touch through company email and/or text.


My company has channels like WhatsAp, Slack and Zoom. Calls can be made via these to individuals at remote locations.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Robert22205 said:


> They work for the same firm don't they? Therefore, they can stay in touch through company email and/or text.


No different firms that came together for a large project once a month in a neutral city. 

but its not hard to move the chat to whatsapp or kik or another app when we are apart., i am well aware


----------



## MattMatt

What do _*you*_ want, @Chicagohusband2020? Do you want divorce or reconciliation? If the latter, on what basis? 

Never mind what other people here or elsewhere think you should want. What do *you* want?


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

MattMatt said:


> What do _*you*_ want, @Chicagohusband2020? Do you want divorce or reconciliation? If the latter, on what basis?
> 
> Never mind what other people here or elsewhere think you should want. What do *you* want?


Taking time to figure that out. Not a decision I can reach in 10 days, will take a couple more weeks. A I imagine would be the case for most people in my shoes. Maybe they would do things faster but I have always been a "thinker"


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## jlg07

You need to do things at YOUR pace, not folks on the internet. YOU have to live this life -- not anyone else here on TAM. This is a life changing decision, so please DO take your time as you plan. THINK things through -- you absolutely need to.


----------



## mickybill

I think that you will go back and forth between all the choices. Many times in one day if like me. Then when I realized I was the only one who mattered to me, I decided on D and stuck to it. She was too much of a chicken**** to pull the trigger, wanted me to be the bad guy. But after a while 6 out of 7 of her family contacted me to offer support and share that they were surprised and thought she went crazy.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Taking time to figure that out. Not a decision I can reach in 10 days, will take a couple more weeks. A I imagine would be the case for most people in my shoes. Maybe they would do things faster but I have always been a "thinker"


My original marriage counselor once told me that any decision you ever need to make in your life - the big or small - can be made in 1 week or less. Any longer, and you're just trying to talk yourself out of doing what you know you need to do, or are paralyzed by fear.

I think she was right. Take your time, but not too much time.


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## Marc878

Good advice. Most people have trouble making a decision.

Go with what you know. Keep your heart out of it.


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## Gabriel

Most people who move to divorce make that decision quickly - i.e. this is a marital dealbreaker and "I'm outta here". For others, it's not a dealbreaker, and thus, the self negotiation takes over.

I was the opposite. When a foreign substance entered my marriage, I went into full protection mode. I was going to tactfully remove the foreign substance, like it was a germ, and then work on healing the damage. Remove threat, then see what's left. Of course there were huge fights, tons of emotion, moves I made that I'm not proud of, but ultimately, I got her to remove the cancer with me. And then a VERY slow healing process began. I did (and have) made the decision, however, that I would never endure that kind of ordeal again. Any relapse or new incident and I am gone.

So for you, clearly, this wasn't a dealbreaker, or you'd already have made the decision to divorce. But don't let limbo rule your life, you've got to act. Either get going on D, or make your demands for reconciliation.


----------



## Marc878

In this case I would demand a polygraph


----------



## Beach123

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Taking time to figure that out. Not a decision I can reach in 10 days, will take a couple more weeks. A I imagine would be the case for most people in my shoes. Maybe they would do things faster but I have always been a "thinker"
> [/QUOTE


You already know if you can live with this or not.

Your gut never lies.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

People seem to feel a lot of guilt when they choose to stay with the WS and then realize that no matter how hard they both work, that they (the betrayed) just can’t get past it. Like it’s somehow a failure on their part. Well it’s not, it just means they are human with very real feelings who have been damaged by the person they believe they love. Really dig deep and examine whether you could really get past this betrayal down the road. I tried. I couldn’t. I won’t try it again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Buffer

Take your time in your decisio, D or R. She spent months in the EA as well as sexting.
one day at a time 
Buffer


----------



## TDSC60

Your wife said she loves you but is not in love with you and asked for space to think about it. But she has told the OM that she is in love with him.

What do you suppose she wanted to think about? She wanted to decide if it made more sense to stay with you or continue the affair with OM. I bet she still has not told you that she now realizes that she is in love with you and not him and wants to recover the marriage. She just says she wants to see IF you can make it work. She is maybe willing to try the marriage again while not being in love with you and not even sure if she wants the marriage any more. She thinks this is some grand gesture on her part. What do you get out of this? Nothing but unanswered question about what she did and an unsure future with a woman who admittedly is not in love with you.

Translation: You are the safe stable plan B. The OM is her fantasy. Her dream lover that she is slightly unsure of even though she loves him and wants him, she is not ready to give up the safety and security that she had with you in the past.


----------



## Hoosier

I would start the divorce. To show her I was serious. When I faced the decision I told myself that I could always stop the proceedings if I wanted to. Then I decided that no matter what I was getting a divorce (while the time was right to save my business) as we could always reconcile if we were married or not, in fact being divorced would level the playing field.


----------



## faithfulman

@Chicagohusband2020 - if your wife was saying I love you and sending nudes, sexting, have sexually explicit chat/video sessions whatever then there is no way she didn't get sexual with this guy when she met him in person.

No ****ing way.

She might be trying to be "technical" with you when she said she didn't have sex, like: I sucked his ****, but we didn't have penis in vagina "sex".

This is one of the insidious types of lying that cheaters do.

Though I would be surprised if she didn't do everything and then some with him.

If I had been around for the beginning of this thread, I would have suggested you immediately run a recovery on her mobile phone using Fonelab and you would have found a lot of deleted stuff that would give you a lot more of the whole story. You may still be able to do that.

I don't think you should get back together with your wife, even if "all she did" was tell him she loved him, sext and send pics and videos of her body to him and sexual video chat. But you might want that evidence to stiffen your spine for the decision to cut her loose and for your own peace of mind.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

There’s taking your time and stalling. It’s funny how infidleity mysteriously changes well known definitions. 10 days is you checking to see if she is meeting your unknown criteria to stay. I say unknown because you have no idea what she needs to do to prove her love or worth to you. yes, sorry, 10 days is more than enough to know what YOU want. Notice, I didn’t say you had to divorce.

This is why I said limbo earlier, you are in it by choice.


----------



## Affaircare

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Taking time to figure that out. Not a decision I can reach in 10 days, will take a couple more weeks. A I imagine would be the case for most people in my shoes. Maybe they would do things faster but I have always been a "thinker"


@Chicagohusband2020,

May I respectfully recommend that you clarify for yourself in your head the distinction between "making a decision" and "what you want"? Here's why:

What you WANT is for your wife to be the woman you thought she was!
What you WANT is to have things back the way (you thought) they were!
What you WANT is for your wife to "see the light" and admit she was wrong!
What you WANT is for your family to be whole and happy, like you thought it was!
What you WANT is for your wife to love you again!!!!!

However, that is not reality, and you need to make your decision based on reality. Remember the image I showed you about Rugsweeping vs. Reconciliation? I showed you that because it is so painful to actually face what happened, that many, many people prefer to sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. They'll call it "a fresh start" or "forgiving" and what is REALLY IS...is fear of looking at the behavior that set all this damage in motion.

It is hard and scary to look at a body that is beaten and bloody and realize that your actions did that to someone. It is hard to look at the person in the mirror and if you did things that caused harm, to admit it humbly and stay on the long-term path of acting in a new way. It is hard to consider the way you perceive things and the way you think of things and realize that you even need to change HOW YOU THINK in order to be a new person. And yet, that is exactly what is REQUIRED (yes...*required*) in order to truly reconcile after adultery. Don't call it "cheating" or even "infidelity" because those words are too nice. They're euphamisms. We are dealing with ADULTERY so call it that. If you can't even say it, how are you going to recover from it?

So don't think about what you want... because you want this to all go away and you want it to have never happened! Instead think about reality. It DID happen. It honestly WAS adultery. Let go of the illusion of what you thought you had and what you wished you had, and start to come to grips with what you really do have in reality. Do you love yourself enough to say "I can no longer give myself to a person who would commit adultery on me"? Or do you value keeping your family together more than keeping your own mental health? 

THAT is ultimately the question. What do you value?

P.S. Edited to add that I was a person who committed adultery once, and I chose to be brave and look at my own self and change, even though I was afraid. I'm not advocating divorce, but I am advocating either HEALTHY recovery based on reality and both parties fully facing what has occurred...or health divorce based on reality and facing what truly occurred. Make sense?


----------



## lucy999

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well I had her delete and block him from all social media.
> . . .
> unblocking someone is easy to do when you are living together and able to check the phone daily.


I want you to read what you wrote here. It was YOU who had her delete him and block all social media. Doesn't that tell you alot right there? If she were wanting to truly R, she would've done this before the words could've even left your mouth. 

And, as to the last paragraph--do you really want to be in a relationship where you have to check your spouse's phone? I was The Marriage Police once. I will never accept that job again. It's a thankless one with no pay, ****ty hours and even ****tier benefits.


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## colingrant

Chicago - I've followed your story from day 1. I understand you're considering your options. That's good. When betrayed, the synapses in the brain often don't function properly, so here are a few thoughts and questions to stimulate your thinking.

I've been on the betrayed side, so I'm seeing this from your view in a sense. My intent is to be neutral and not sway you in either direction, or passive aggressively suggest one angle over another. However, admittedly, I may fail at doing so, but it's not intentional. Here goes.

*Recommendations/Questions:*

1) *Is it a deal breaker for you?* Some people consider infidelity deal breakers. You may or may not fall into this category, but it's worthy to think about. The interesting thing is no one really knows what camp they fall into until it happens. Some say, it's a deal breaker, but after betrayal they find it's often not. For me, I never really thought that I'd be cheated on so I didn't have a predetermination of what would happen post infidelity. Turns out, in both instances of me being cheated on, I couldn't even consider reconciling, let alone actually do it. Clearly I fell into the "It's a deal breaker" camp. Never knew this until it happened though. I don't take any pride in this, but it helped me learn about myself.

I honestly can't tell you how to tell. Everyone's different. For me, I couldn't look my fiance's in the eyes. I couldn't get past another man penetrating my fiancé. Sounds a little trivial, but that was a big one for me. I couldn't get past both fiancé’s ghosting me for weeks, exhibiting massive disrespect. When I added everything up, I couldn't do it. Not only could I not do it, but I actually TRIED to consider reconciling and *and still couldn't*. Turns out, I'm not that far off the mark, as I visit this site and others regularly and these memories are ones that 90% or more of betrayed men who stayed think of and are sorry for having stayed, years and even decades later. After reading these testimonials from other men, I'm extremely happy I made the decision I did.

I also projected the best I could a future with or without my fiancés. I have an unusual graphic memory that I can't shake for the life of me. I imagined in 5, 10 & 15 years, looking across the dinner table at her lips knowing where they'd been, When she'd remove her panties, who she'd done that for, etc. I know these are all negative remembrances, but I'm just conveying my thoughts. I didn't think I'd forge them, even if they carried less weight, the thoughts would still be there, so I decided I'd prefer someone new so that I didn't have to carry that baggage.

I think it's extremely important to evaluate your self worth. I was a big time catch and knew it. The knockout punch infidelity brings kept me on the mat for a few weeks, during which time I ghosted them and reset my bearings. After the smelling salts were given, I came to the conclusion that neither one of fiance's were my best shot in life to at having a life partner. That's nonsense I read here often. I reasoned, I'd have zero problem replacing them with someone better and that's exactly what happened. How and what you think of yourself can dictate your decision making, so commit to rebuilding whatever hit your esteem took, because once you rebuild or remember who you are, and were, the stronger position you'll be in making decisions on how to proceed with YOUR life.

2) *Reconciliation condition #1* - Get tested for STD's and insist she does also, as well as a pregnancy test. Non-negotiable. Doing so upfront sets the tone as to who's calling the shots. If she rebels, leave. This is your life and you have no time for uncertainty.

3) *Reconciliation condition #2* - Get her polygraphed - If you're going to take the time to contemplate your marriage and future life, which is smart, you must also be smart enough to gather ALL the facts before proceeding forward with reconciliation consideration. The foundation of any future relationship has to be built on truth or else you'll find out more info later down the road, which will cause you to question yourself and her ability to deceive you even in the spirit of reconciling. Before you make a decision of your marriage, you're actually making a decision of your future, whether that's with her or not. Don't decide by gut. Decide by fact.

Yes, the polygraph isn't perfect, but it sure is better than hearing it from the person who stands to lose a lot, your wife. Make it a condition for reconciliation *consideration*. If you're going to reconcile, you have to know WHAT you're reconciling. In addition to the who, there's the what, which is the myriad of decisions she made that reduced you to a disposable option and her lover the preferred one. How did that come to be?

That's a hell of a decision making process, so you want to know what the hell happened exactly. Don't mean to sound sexists or make a blanket statement, but my experience is once sex with a female happens, her emotions go from one level to another. Stuff changes. I'm pretty certain it was physical, but you should know what your WIFE decided to do with another man. It's your business to know because you're married to her and what happens to her, impacts you, good, bad or indifferent.

4) *Reconciliation condition #3 - *Require she attend I.C. and pays for it. Not marriage counseling. IC, preferably with a counselor who's experienced with infidelity. Your condition comes with the fact that the IC ONLY deals with her affair, and not the marriage. If you're going to reconcile, you have to know who you're reconciling with. Weekly sessions of IC should reveal some things you didn't know of, which has to be flushed out so that you can make a thorough decision.

5) Questions to ponder

*How will she be viewed by you in 3 months, 3 years and 13 years?* I don't think I'd ever view my wife any differently than the fact that she once betrayed me. I could forgive her, but that wouldn't mean I'd still have memories of her betrayal. It's who I am. I'm fine with it. I'm still friends with one of my x-fiance's who cheated. I still view her as a cheater. I've forgiven her. We're really, really good friends, but feelings of her betrayal are not forgotten by me and never will, so if I divorced my current wife tomorrow, my x-fiance would not be a candidate as a partner. That's just how it is.

*How will she view you if you took her back?* This played into my thinking quite a bit. Personally, I thought I'd look and feel weak by taking her back and I still feel that way. You and others may feel different. I found that in general people believe they’re strong after having made their decision. So, people that stay believe more strength is required to stay and people that leave feel more strength is required to leave. I believe you can always tell what’s easiest and what’s hardest by what the majority of people do. So, I find most people reconcile, which I have no problem with. However I know from experience that whatever is hard is what people have a tendency to stay away from. So, I’ve concluded since a minority of betrayed spouses leave, to me that’s the decision that requires the most strength and is the hardest to make, especially those with kids.

*What does love have to do with it?* Nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y Nothing. I read betrayed spouses say, yes she or he screwed me terribly, but I love her/him. Guess what? Nearly every betrayed spouse loves the one that betrayed them. That's not a unique thing in the least. That's like saying, I love my mom and dad, or the sky is blue. 99% of people love their mom and dad. The question isn't whether you love your wife or not. I'm assuming you do as most married people do. The question really is should you or do you have to stay with the one you love? No, you do not if the relationship isn’t sitting on a foundation of love, respect and trust.

Should a wife who's abused by her husband stay with him? The real question to me is do I love her respect her and trust her. And does she love me, respect me and trust me? Without the respect and trust, love by itself is the glue, but insufficient for maintaining a relationship that’s healthy and worthy of marital vows. Love will place you at the side of the one you love, but to stay there it requires the two additional pillars of respect and trust to be present. For a real relationship, trust and respect are prerequisites, not options or bonuses. Funny thing is I find infidelity reduces the betrayed one to compromising the relationship principles to just needing love to be present, when in fact it’s actually what’s keeping them in an unhealthy relationship because they don’t insist respect and trust be present. They hope for it, but don’t allow it to be the baseline.

*If you were to reconcile, does your wife have the patience, conviction, determination, and strength to LEAD your recovery from her assault on your heart on emotions? * She's the one that blew it up and she's the one that has to lead the reconstruction. Some can do it and others don't have the will or deepness of love to persevere as you take 2-5 years of very, very turbulent times to recover. You can't predict this part. She'll have to show you and you'll have to know what you're looking for in her.

I'd file for divorce and tell her reconciliation is possible, but the clock is ticking and her actions and lead will determine if she gets a chance or not. Remember, we're talking about her EARNING THE CHANCE OF RECONCILIATION *CONSIDERATION*, not to reconcile. That happens after she puts for the effort and your evaluation of her effectiveness. Reconciliation only occurs if she passes your tests, which are her meeting all of your predetermined conditions. If she passes, you stop the divorce process and exercise a post nup to protect your financial interests. If she doesn't, her period of being evaluated expires and you follow through with it. If she ran out of time and continues to pursue you, you decide if you wish to grant her this gift of allowing her to do so.


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## colingrant

Forgot to add. I wouldn't demand anything Chi-town. I would simply tell her what you need for her to receive consideration for reconciling (if she wants to) and what you expect from a wife. It's her free will to choose or not choose. This will enable you to easily see if she's *choosing *to be your wife by meeting your standards, boundaries and expectations instead of a meeting an emotional demand that's often fear based. 

As an NFL coach once said, I'm not looking for hostages I have to control and convince through demands, I'm looking for volunteers who decide on their own free will do what's right, as I know it's heartfelt and more meaningful to them. Quiet as it is kept, wayward spouses also are in a bit of shock after being discovered and out of fear, they'll initially respond favorably to an upset betrayed spouse and default to immediate compliance. 

Unfortunately, it's out of fear and shock so it doesn't last long and next thing you know, the WS retreats back to the AP after the shock wears off and their bearings are straightened. Normally, takes a couple to a few weeks before they've resumed communication by taking it underground. Read enough stories here and you'll see this to be the pattern in 80-90% of the time.

By stating your conditions and boundaries and leaving it up to her to meet or deny them, conveys confidence and that's what wayward spouses respect and respond to. Conversely, they don't respond to the "pick me game" where you bargain, beg and try to compete for love and affection. This provides the exact opposite affect, as you saw in your first 4 weeks.

It's been said you have to be willing to lose a marriage to save it and by giving her the option to be your wife or another man's boyfriend, you revealed you're not afraid to remove her as an option. You also did it when you forced separation and told her you are where she was at a few weeks prior. You essentially showed her through *your actions* that you're capable of living your life, with or without her.


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## Chicagohusband2020

colingrant said:


> Forgot to add. I wouldn't demand anything Chi-town. I would simply tell her what you need for her to receive consideration for reconciling (if she wants to) and what you expect from a wife. It's her free will to choose or not choose. This will enable you to easily see if she's *choosing *to be your wife by meeting your standards, boundaries and expectations instead of a meeting an emotional demand that's often fear based.
> 
> As an NFL coach once said, I'm not looking for hostages I have to control and convince through demands, I'm looking for volunteers who decide on their own free will do what's right, as I know it's heartfelt and more meaningful to them. Quiet as it is kept, wayward spouses also are in a bit of shock after being discovered and out of fear, they'll initially respond favorably to an upset betrayed spouse and default to immediate compliance.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's out of fear and shock so it doesn't last long and next thing you know, the WS retreats back to the AP after the shock wears off and their bearings are straightened. Normally, takes a couple to a few weeks before they've resumed communication by taking it underground. Read enough stories here and you'll see this to be the pattern in 80-90% of the time.
> 
> By stating your conditions and boundaries and leaving it up to her to meet or deny them, conveys confidence and that's what wayward spouses respect and respond to. Conversely, they don't respond to the "pick me game" where you bargain, beg and try to compete for love and affection. This provides the exact opposite affect, as you saw in your first 4 weeks.
> 
> It's been said you have to be willing to lose a marriage to save it and by giving her the option to be your wife or another man's boyfriend, you revealed you're not afraid to remove her as an option. You also did it when you forced separation and told her you are where she was at a few weeks prior. You essentially showed her through *your actions* that you're capable of living your life, with or without her.


Thank-you Colingrant and everyone else for you thoughtful and thought provoking replies the last couple of days. 

Its funny, if you had asked me 6 months ago if adultery was a deal breaker for me I would have replied without hesitation YES, would be over that second. Maybe its the way the chain of events transpired. three weeks of me thinking I was the worst husband around, beating myself up for ruining a decade long marriage, playing the pick me game (unknowingly). or maybe I am just a soft heart at the end of the day. I'm not sure.

As every day ticks by I come to the realization that it there has been in 10 days pretty much 0% on the part of my WS. Our conversations while brief revolve around minor day to day things, she has apologies 3 times via ext but also mention her working on herself, or what I did to contribute to this etc etc numerous times.

Her reaction when confronted about the adultery in person was underwhelming, seems more like the reaction if a teenager had their diary read.More upset about how I had found out that my actual broken heart of finding out. There was trickle truth during that 45 minute conversation. Reluctance to even block the OM, and when she messaged him it was more of a "he is going to tell your work" we should stop message than what you actually want o see. I am sure if I continue down the road there will be a lot more trickle truths. But at the end of the day I have made the decision that I don't want to have to do polygraph and policing and monitoring. I did it for 2 days and it was not a nice feeling. 

I have some IC set up as the issue I have now is despite what has happened to me I still feel like a jerk if I was to do anything negative to her. I think a few pages earlier one member's put it quite well. It took her months to detach from me, which did did like a chameleon I had no idea, she played it very well making things seem like they where fine between us while caring on with the OM

I if anything attached even more to her in the 4 weeks leading up to me fining out to the OM, as I was put in a position thinking her wanting to leave and being out of love with me was my shortcomings, I almost put her on a pedestal during the process.

I guess I am in Limbo, I know what I need to do but I need to find the strength and self worth to do it, which I will


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## Hoosier

Its not fair. When my wife of 30 years had her exit affair, it went on for a year before I knew. By the time I found out she was long tired of me and detached. It was all fresh to me. Sucked.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Hoosier said:


> Its not fair. When my wife of 30 years had her exit affair, it went on for a year before I knew. By the time I found out she was long tired of me and detached. It was all fresh to me. Sucked.


It sure does! I am sorry to hear


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Her reaction when confronted about the adultery in person was underwhelming, seems more like the reaction if a teenager had their diary read.More upset about how I had found out that my actual broken heart of finding out.


You're seeing what she really thinks about monogamy and what a commitment is. And how little integrity she has.


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## SunCMars

Marduk said:


> You're seeing what she really thinks about monogamy and what a commitment is. And how little integrity she has.


Yes.

It is a lack of integrity on her part and also, "What is 'in it' for me, part?".
Selfish behavior, nothing else.

CH's wife needed to make him small, the other man large, and herself in the middle.
She was feasting on the new man, while taking little bites out of CH's dignity.


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## colingrant

An analogy I sometimes use and is perhaps controversial for some is, if you physically abused your wife, would it be appropriate for you to *blame her* *for your inability to remain poised while under duress or emotionally upset,* and physically harming her? Hell no. Your ass would be placed in jail inside 20 minutes.

No one believes this. The cops don't. The courts don't. The judge doesn't. Domestic abuse is very serious stuff. Regardless how confrontational or argumentative a woman is, there is ZERO reason to strike her. None. For those that do, it reveals anger management and a lack of coping skills for the man who should be behind bars or on their way.

Back to you. If we're to turn this around, if your wife cheats on you. Underlying issues and a lack of coping skills are the sources of her actions. Now, marital issues, may or may not have contributed, but the cheating is on her 100%. People have marital issues all the time, and they don't cheat. People are lonely and they don't cheat. Spouses work too long and hard and the spouse at home doesn't cheat.

Nor should you assume if it was marital issues, that they were serious enough to trigger her infidelity. It could be something as simple as weak boundaries and the need for romantic attention from someone else. This has nothing to do with you, or the marriage, so be careful with how this narrative is shaped.

And by the way, don't default to it being marital issues. Studies show a high percentage of men and women cheat with good and sometimes very good marriages. She's defaulting to blame shifting, etc, due to lack of character, so don't automatically assume the marriage is the foundation of her actions or else the solutions will follow the wrong path.

In other words, if it's self esteem and lack of boundaries, but she and/or her counselor is looking at the marriage, this is equivalent to a doctor looking at an MRI of one's knee, when in fact the patient's ailment is dizziness and shortness of breath.


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## SunCMars

Many in life refuse to lose. 
They rationalize (to themselves), that if they never admit defeat, they have not lost.
They look at cheating by their spouse as losing a battle.

Yes, an important battle.

The war itself, has yet to be lost, because divorce has not been started, nor completed.

If you feel this way CH, let her lose the war, not yourself.
You step off the battlefield, leaving her on her own.

Why this?

You are young enough to find a new partner.

Yes, you lost the battle, and then stepped away from the war.

Then again, you win, hands-down at life, she loses, underhandedly.

You will, forever, be able to look in the mirror with pride.
She has forever, lost that option.

THRD-


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## Marc878

By now youknow what’s up. Letting fear guide you will not help. It’ll put you in even worse shape long term.

Think of this. What would you be losing?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Chicago, the ball is in your court. What happens with the game is up to you. Time to pull the band aid off sir.
You are not comprehending what others are telling you that have been there, done that. We know what works and what doesn’t. It is time to tell yourself “FEAR NOT!” Realize that you are stronger than you think you are.

Einstein said it best. “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.”

From your post you are looking at your situation from an absolute worse case scenario. To quote Colin Powell, “It is never as bad as you think it is.” You appear to be generating in your mind what my IC refers to as “ANTs” Automatic Negative Thoughts. Put a stop to that now or you are going to be stuck in limbo until she makes the decision for you.

You would be an ideal candidate for No Longer Lonely Husband Boot Camp. I will repeat what I have for other posters.
First of all imagine that you have arrived at a place similar to MCRD Parris Island. I have jumped on the bus, I am screaming at you and the others on board who have been affected by infidelity...Imaging R. Lee Ermy shouting at you (only NLLH is much better looking). I get you off the bus and put your feet on the yellow footprints of infidelity boot camp. Here goes! You will respond to all statements as YES SGT NLLH! I CANT HEAR YOU! AT ATTENTION NOW RECRUIT!

1) You have taken a hit. A hard hit you can and will recover from. Understand Recruit?

2) You did nothing to deserve the **** sandwich she made for you. Understand Recruit?

3) You are stronger than you realize. Commit that to memory.

4) She must prove she is worthy of R, not the other way around.

5) PT is mandatory Recruit. Get yourself into the gym. Pound the iron. Become a lean mean dating machine.

6) Focus on you. Forget about her for the time being. She is not yet worthy to be someone you think about. Get you a new wardrobe. Get a new hairstyle. 

7) Keep a light hand on the booze. Booze will do you no good, once you sober up the problem is still present.

8) 180 180 180 Along with Radio silence. Speak only to her when necessary. Do not start pleasantries with her. If she speaks to you keep your answers curt and short.

9) She is your enemy. Yes. At the moment she is the enemy of your marriage as is POSOM.

10) EXPOSURE. Mandatory if you seek to reconcile. Not optional. She needs to feel the shame of her family as well as yours. Expose to HR, too, unless divoricing. Blow her ass out of the land of unicorns and rainbows. Exposure is like hell raining down on the perps. Make them do some penance.

11) You are a worthwhile person Recruit. Never forget you deserve better.

DISMISSED. CARRY ON!


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## BluesPower

Hope that works NLLH, I an afraid the CH just does not understand. He still believes that she did not have sex with him when they were out of town. Poor guy!!!!


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## Chicagohusband2020

BluesPower said:


> Hope that works NLLH, I an afraid the CH just does not understand. He still believes that she did not have sex with him when they were out of town. Poor guy!!!!


Oh no I certainty believe they did


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## Chicagohusband2020

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Chicago, the ball is in your court. What happens with the game is up to you. Time to pull the band aid off sir.
> You are not comprehending what others are telling you that have been there, done that. We know what works and what doesn’t. It is time to tell yourself “FEAR NOT!” Realize that you are stronger than you think you are.
> 
> Einstein said it best. “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.”
> 
> From your post you are looking at your situation from an absolute worse case scenario. To quote Colin Powell, “It is never as bad as you think it is.” You appear to be generating in your mind what my IC refers to as “ANTs” Automatic Negative Thoughts. Put a stop to that now or you are going to be stuck in limbo until she makes the decision for you.
> 
> You would be an ideal candidate for No Longer Lonely Husband Boot Camp. I will repeat what I have for other posters.
> First of all imagine that you have arrived at a place similar to MCRD Parris Island. I have jumped on the bus, I am screaming at you and the others on board who have been affected by infidelity...Imaging R. Lee Ermy shouting at you (only NLLH is much better looking). I get you off the bus and put your feet on the yellow footprints of infidelity boot camp. Here goes! You will respond to all statements as YES SGT NLLH! I CANT HEAR YOU! AT ATTENTION NOW RECRUIT!
> 
> 1) You have taken a hit. A hard hit you can and will recover from. Understand Recruit?
> 
> 2) You did nothing to deserve the **** sandwich she made for you. Understand Recruit?
> 
> 3) You are stronger than you realize. Commit that to memory.
> 
> 4) She must prove she is worthy of R, not the other way around.
> 
> 5) PT is mandatory Recruit. Get yourself into the gym. Pound the iron. Become a lean mean dating machine.
> 
> 6) Focus on you. Forget about her for the time being. She is not yet worthy to be someone you think about. Get you a new wardrobe. Get a new hairstyle.
> 
> 7) Keep a light hand on the booze. Booze will do you no good, once you sober up the problem is still present.
> 
> 8) 180 180 180 Along with Radio silence. Speak only to her when necessary. Do not start pleasantries with her. If she speaks to you keep your answers curt and short.
> 
> 9) She is your enemy. Yes. At the moment she is the enemy of your marriage as is POSOM.
> 
> 10) EXPOSURE. Mandatory if you seek to reconcile. Not optional. She needs to feel the shame of her family as well as yours. Expose to HR, too, unless divoricing. Blow her ass out of the land of unicorns and rainbows. Exposure is like hell raining down on the perps. Make them do some penance.
> 
> 11) You are a worthwhile person Recruit. Never forget you deserve better.
> 
> DISMISSED. CARRY ON!


Thanks! I wish I could hit the gym, going through this during COVID isn't the best, but I have running


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## Chicagohusband2020

Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


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## MattMatt

BluesPower said:


> Hope that works NLLH, I an afraid the CH just does not understand. He still believes that she did not have sex with him when they were out of town. Poor guy!!!!


Speaking as a Moderator:-
Oh. He does understand. And please understand that snide remarks like yours will not be tolerated. Just so that you understand.


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


Lol, I remember that day.

My answer was "because it's not your money any more."


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## MattMatt

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


I'd be tempted to reply: "Hi. As xxxx is the new love of your life, I wonder if your text message was intended for him rather than me? After all, you made it clear we are no longer an item and I know how you dislike freeloaders and moochers."


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks! I wish I could hit the gym, going through this during COVID isn't the best, but I have running


Stay physically active. Good luck and keep moving forward out of the abyss of infidelity. I wish you the best in dealing with this ****storm she created.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


None. Radio silence, let her stew.


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## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


I would just play it straight. Why did you change your direct deposit? Just tell her the truth.

I personally would just be honest, no smarty-alecky answers going forward. Besides a direct answer about direct deposit, I might tell her, "I was in love with you, but you fell out of love with me, and you fell in love with another man. You lied to me for a long time. You have been sneaky. He is a supposed friend, but you never told me about this friend and you communicated him all the time and hid it from me, then you lied to my face. I have done nothing dishonest to you. You let me play the fool trying to improve myself for you when you already fell in love with another man, but after 16 years, you couldn't even just tell me the truth straight out. I don't trust you now."


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## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> As every day ticks by I come to the realization that it there has been *in 10 days pretty much 0% on the part of my WS*. Our conversations while brief revolve around minor day to day things, she has apologies 3 times via ext but also mention her working on herself, or what I did to contribute to this etc etc numerous times.
> 
> Her reaction when confronted about the adultery in person was underwhelming, seems more like the reaction if a teenager had their diary read.More upset about how I had found out that my actual broken heart of finding out. There was trickle truth during that 45 minute conversation. *Reluctance to even block the OM,* and when she messaged him it was more of a "*he is going to tell your work*" we should stop message than what you actually want o see.
> 
> I if anything attached even more to her in the 4 weeks leading up to me fining out to the OM, as I was put in a position thinking her wanting to leave and being out of love with me was my shortcomings, I almost put her on a pedestal during the process.
> 
> *I guess I am in Limbo*, I know what I need to do but I need to find the strength and self worth to do it, which I will


What Colingrant posted has been my observation and experience. I agree with all of it. Most people who have been married for or together for 16 years, and still happy, upon finding about the cheating, will initially want to recover what has been lost. Betrayeds who want to divorce immediatley, in my experience, don't post here, and don't need much advice. They hire an attorney and follow the attorney's advice. And betrayeds who want to stay married, whose cheater immediately does all the right things - ends the affair, no contact, honest, etc., and want marriage counseling - admittedly probably a small percentage of cheaters do this - but betrayeds with those kinds of repentant cheaters don't post here. They get a marriage counselor and follow that advice. So what you get here is the betrayed who want to stay married or are undecided, and cheaters who are less than repentant. You are in that category.

If you read here, which Colingrant didn't include in his excellent posts, is that the betrayeds who want to stay married or undecided, the reason they eventually divorce, is based on the actions and words AFTER the cheater was caught, not the affair itself. Most betrayeds in that category can get past the cheating, but it's the continued lying, deception, and disrespect AFTER getting caught is what puts the nail in the coffin. You are there now.

Another observation and experience, if the cheater can be repentant immediately upon getting caught, depends on timing. If the cheater is in the middle of the "I am in love with AP" infatuation phase, it will take the cheater a longer time, weeks or maybe months, to detach from the AP and re-attach to the spouse. You are in that situation. If you had remained completely in the dark for two years, and your wife had gradually got sick of AP or AP had gotten sick of her, and the affair ended its own without your impetus to end it, then when you caught your wife, more likely she would have been much more repentant. So you would be with her after 2-3 years of cheating. My experience, if you stay now and try, you still will follow a lengthy detachment process, maybe another year or so.

Finally for now, it's very easy to see this from the outside, from people like me who have read a lot, and seen it over and over and over ad infinitum. I can see how this will end up. I understand that after 16 years together, without having had the education, either by reading or by doing (like you are doing now), you can't just move forward if the cheater is still giving mixed messages. Soon enough, though, you will have enough. Many, many betrayeds stay with the cheater, even when the cheater obviously isn't repentant. But the bright side is that in those situations, the cheater cheats again within six months, and the betrayed catches it very quick the next time, because the betrayed no longer have blind trust and the betrayed knows what the signs are, having gone through it once before. So even if you stay with your wife, you will catch her quick enough next time.


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## ConfusedDenver

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


Don't reply at all. She'll figure it out.


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## ConfusedDenver

OutofRetirement said:


> I would just play it straight. Why did you change your direct deposit? Just tell her the truth.
> 
> I personally would just be honest, no smarty-alecky answers going forward. Besides a direct answer about direct deposit, I might tell her, "I was in love with you, but you fell out of love with me, and you fell in love with another man. You lied to me for a long time. You have been sneaky. He is a supposed friend, but you never told me about this friend and you communicated him all the time and hid it from me, then you lied to my face. I have done nothing dishonest to you. You let me play the fool trying to improve myself for you when you already fell in love with another man, but after 16 years, you couldn't even just tell me the truth straight out. I don't trust you now."


Bah. She doesn't care about his feelings, so why should he waste all that energy replying with all that bull ****? At this point she only cares about his money. Sad and ****ed up, but it's true.


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## Openminded

No answer required.


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## phillybeffandswiss

You should go through your posts and make a check list of what she has done and not done since the confrontation.

My check list is all negative except, when she suggested counseling.


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## ShatteredKat

you wrote:
I guess I am in Limbo, I know what I need to do but I need to find the strength and self worth to do it, which I will 


and phillyeffandswiss posted:
You should go through your posts and make a check list of what she has done and not done since the confrontation.
My check list is all negative except, when she suggested counseling. 

And I suggest you re-read your posts and introspect your assessment and how your relationship has changed and know that it will continue to change.

Best to get moving with the legalities of marriage dissolution - your spouse dissloved the moral side of your marriage.

All you have left to clean up is the legal piece. 

Part of the task is to separate finances - which you have started and "she doesn't get it" - and her asking is an indication she doesn't understand your direction or her affect you as a person - read no more mr. nice guy (google it)


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## Robert22205

Ouch....I'm sorry to hear that all she has to say to you is to ask where 'your' check is? 
Her last text suggests she sees you as a pay check.

I'm sorry that your wife (when confronted and afterward) failed to show remorse for the pain that her betrayal caused you; the destruction of your trust (and therefore your marriage); and has made zero effort to fix herself and rebuild trust.

Among other things, with respect to their marriage, cheaters are: entitled, selfish, deceitful, and lack empathy for their spouse. For whatever reason your wife morphed into someone you do not know. She is no longer the girl you married.

Continue to distance yourself and protect yourself from someone that is not behaving as your friend or partner.
In time you will reach a point where you're ready to take action (R or D).


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## colingrant

What you’re going through is life changing and so profound, many, if not most become traumatized, and diagnosed with PTSD, which I’ve had and understand how it works. The symptoms descend upon you at different times. But betrayal from a long term partner who’s been intimate, emotionally and physically with another has all the ingredients of a trauma inducing incident.

I say this so that you can be aware of your state of mind and what it’s capable or incapable of processing. It’s cluttered right now, so I recommend you continue to take it all in and allow yourself to process this in a manner that works for you. With that said, I’d start processing stuff on paper, to help with the de-cluttering.

Speaking of de-cluttering, if you haven’t done so already, you should ask for a detailed timeline of the affair. If I’m not mistaken, she doesn’t know what you know, so you’ll have some reference concerning how events lineup. In your post a page or two ago, you mentioned not wanting to do any of this. I understand your thinking, as neither did I. The reason I didn’t is because I was gone and it didn’t matter to me.

I didn’t care who, why, where, when or how many times. One advantage of leaving the relationship is this very thing. You don’t have to experience additional hurts, which is imminent if you seek more information to make decisions by. I presume this is partly why you opt to forego a poly.

If you’re reconciling however, it’s required. I’ll put it this way. If reconciling, a couple or the betrayed has two options. They can reconcile by dealing with the core issues, which means dissecting the affair or they can rug sweep. There is no in between. It’s either comprehensive or half ass. Half-ass equal’s rug sweeping.

Rug sweeping entails not confronting the affair elements and rooting out the wayward spouse’s why’s, of which your wife is not qualified to do on her own. Significant independent counseling unearths this information. On your end, I’ll say this Chicago. I’ve literally read hundreds, if not thousands of stories concerning infidelity.

Not once……, have I read where a reconciling betrayed spouse was able to dismiss wanting to understand or learn about their spouses affair to the point where they were satisfied of knowing all that was needed to know. The desire to know will not remain dormant. It will surface and gnaw at you, which in turn, will grow to resentment. This is the cancer. 

It’s possible your wife and AP had well thought out, 18 month plan to be together and you interceded in the 12 month. Of course, your wife would NEVER tell this to you, but a poly would give credence to the real possibility of this happening. Planning to be together is very different than a few sexual encounters, just like a few sexual encounters is much different than an emotional affair………..at least for me it is.

For me, everything starts and stops with sex. But, that's just me though. Everyone's different. I read where one lady was most upset that her husband held hands with his affair partner. Sex, kissing and emotional affair, all fell behind the intimacy of hand holding!

On another site, two guys, one who’s been married 46 years and another, 30 years, have posted their stories seeking opinions on how they can broach the subject with their spouses to reopen discussions concerning affairs their wives had decades ago, because it’s been on there mind the ENTIRE marriage.

This is why I and others are recommending the polygraph. You’re probably looking short term, but I’m thinking long term, as in, get what you need to know now, or else it will prove to be a cancer in your efforts to reconcile if that’s your choice.

If you aren’t reconciling, then the poly is meaningless as far as I’m concerned. However, there is absolutely no way you can move forward with a healthy, sustained feeling of reconcilement if you do not face the facts surrounding the affair. Reconciling without the facts is akin to signing a contract without understanding the terms and conditions. Reconciling is recommitting to a return of lifelong partnership.

Considering your wife has already secretly violated the original covenant, odds are significantly in favor of a counterfeit reconcilement which will require a restart a year or two, or few down the road, which is very avoidable, as well as it gnawing at you in the recesses of your memory bank. I’m 100% sure of this.

I understand where you’re coming from. One of the many reasons I didn’t want to reconcile, was I was LIVID at simply entertaining the possibility of having to find stuff out. I can recall grilling my fiancé for 2 hours at an Irish restaurant in Washington DC. We were the only patrons in the place and management had turned the lights on to clue patrons closing time was coming up.

I wasn’t going anywhere, as I could tell I was close to pressuring my fiancé the truth, as she was starting to look down at the table with sad look and watery eyes. Actually, I knew then, but I figured I mind as well close the deal with a confession since I’m so close. Whelp, I got the head nod stating the affirmative after I asked crudely for the 100th time did she f’d him.

The prospects of gathering more information would be humiliating for me, so I didn’t go there. Got my confession, and I was gone……….but, reconciling entails going further and deeper so that reconciling doesn’t have to be repeated. The first one has to be done RIGHT, or else, it will be repeated and any alternative thoughts concerning this are foolish ones. It’s like surgery. If it’s not done right, you’ll be back under the knife, which is both expensive and unhealthy, considering the seriousness of medical procedure.


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## Tilted 1

CH, I am also on to stand tall and spell out and say things as I see them. This is a first step into the new you, do it with strength and 
assertively I might add. Inform her this is how things will be because she fails on all counts as a person let alone a married wife. 

Do not be fearful of honest truth she "willed this to be her new life" and only to find that you were allowing her control the narrative or end results. 

Start now to be the man she once had!! confident, brave, strong, and unceasing fortuide once your mind has made a purposeful decisions. 

My stomach tightens and squeezes know what you are going through, but it is the reconning facing all the facts to realise it was too much and damage to severe, and you end it.

We are not women/men of stone but are the result of facing what we could not push aside.


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## Yeswecan

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


Don't reply.


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## Gabriel

She's panicking. That's good. Say nothing. Guarantee she will continue to ask and apply pressure. Ignore it until she goes bat-sh*t crazy, then come back here and let us know what she has said. We can guide you from there.


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## Tdbo

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


The best reply is no reply. Ghost her!


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## SunCMars

ConfusedDenver said:


> Don't reply at all. She'll figure it out.


Yes, any such responses, enable her.
No response, disables her. 

A worthy person is worthy of a thoughtful response.
She, not being worthy, should get none, not any.


_The Typist-_


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

@Chicagohusband2020 I am not going to sugar coat it. This is one of the roughest rides of your life. However, the ending of the story is up to you how you handle it. You can fold your tent and walk away with your head held high and your dignity intact if you follow the 180. THe 180 is for YOU not her. It seems counterintuitive when you read it, but it works, trust me. 

Many men do not realize how strong they really are until a situation such as your wife’s infidelity arises. I think you are a fellow who is far more strong and resolute than you realize. From your post I detect a man who is a decent man. You do not deserve this ****. Please do not ever blame yourself for the actions of your wife. It was not a mistake, She did not accidentally fall on his ****. It was cold and calculated. Do not forget who you are dealing with.

I am going to be brutally honest. From what you post, and I can only make a judgement from these, she is not a candidate for reconciliation IMHO. There is no remorse I can glean from what you post about her actions and your conversations. The text “why didn’t your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?” This says it all. She has no concern for you only what you can provide for her to finance her rendezvous with POSOM.

There is a great book my cousin got me to read by Larry Winget ‘Grow A Pair”. This is an easy read and a good message that if you take it to heart will help you build the confidence in yourself to successfully navigate this ****storm.

Stay Strong!


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## colingrant

I'd like to add onto "No Longer Lonely Husband's" comment about her not being a candidate. I agree with him, but I'd like to add she's not a candidate* at this current time.* She could be in a few weeks or couple months, if you are inclined to wait and find out. An affair for the betrayed and betrayer, comes with phases. For the betrayed, it's shock, madness and then sadness or sadness, then madness, depending on one's emotional makeup.

For the betrayer, it's excitement and infatuation during the affair, followed by shock, after discovery, followed by frantic uncertainty of not knowing who she/he is or wants, followed by a period defined as the fog, which for some reason, doesn't sit well with me. Not sure why though. But for lack of a better term, we'll go with it.

The fog is the period where the wayward spouse acts nothing like there former self. The residual from the euphoric, addictive, nature of the romance remains with them and they pine for there affair partner even after leaving them. The pull is so strong, they'll compromise reconciliation to satisfy the urge to reconnect with the AP. Their thoughts remain in the affair, so essentially emotionally there still with that person. I could go on more, but I'll stop there because here's the point I'm conveying, and it's an important one.

The fog can last a few days to a few months, depending on a number of factors. But here's what's important to know and it's critical that you understand this. The person in the affair is essentially going through withdrawals from the lost feelings stemming from there high. Your wife was engaged emotionally and physically for a year. She will most likely not be present for a while, but it's not to day she won't be. As I've said, I've read hundreds of stories and I've read up on the thoughts and experiences of wayward wives.

*When caught, they don't all of a sudden become remorseful. *They just don't. We want them to be frantically begging for forgiveness, but they often aren't there yet, so timetables clash here. I'm telling you this so that your mange your expectations.Very few immediately become un-fogged so to speak.

It's a gradual descent from fantasy to reality. The factors that help the descent from the fantasy high are regular independent counseling sessions with a therapist schooled in infidelity and the betrayer beginning to truly understand what losses are inherent with continuing the affair, i.e., husband, home, family, friends possibly, etc.

While foggy, consequences aren't in focus and there thoughts are completely centered around the sensational feelings brought on by the affair. It's euphoric. It's how you felt probably the first few day, weeks, months or even years when you met your wife. Some people seek to relive those feelings, which are nearly impossible with there spouse in a long term relationship.

The new energy that comes with a new or clandestine relationship can't be matched by a mature marriage. It's the difference of your home vs the airy hotel suite when on vacation. As you know the feeling when vacationing, is not comparable to the living routine at home. But people know, vacations are fantasies that provide them with a few days or weeks of uplifting experiences to get rejuvenated and relaxed.

The fog can also be lifted more quickly by abruptly showing the betrayer her/his life without the things she once valued the most, spouse, home, family, etc. So, by you separating, you've begun the process of her possibly coming out of her foggy existence.

*The most definitive measure taken is filing for divorce and serving her. The finality of being served, is powerful, particularly if you've begun the detachment process. This is why supporters on here an elsewhere recommend filing for divorce. It can expedites a wayward spouse out of limbo and forces them to make a decision. *

Problem is you can't or shouldn't do it if you're genuinely not ready to do so. You can't threaten it neither,or else the betrayer will pick up you're using it as a scare tactic and recognize, the only one scared is you and your inability to leave and/or divorce them. Once they detect you don't have the balls to pull the trigger, you're toast.

I agree wholeheartedly with filing though. Yes, it can take time for a wife to get un-fogged, but that doesn't mean you have to sit still and wait for your life to be decided by others. Filing enables you to manage your life instead of your life being in the hands of a spouse who's uncertain of there's. My recommendation is file and allow her the space and time to get un-fogged, while the process of divorce is playing itself out. The finite time period will give her an acute awareness of what's happening and going to happen. 

If she doesn't become remorseful while the divorce is in process, then you have a head start into the next phase of your life. Whereas, if she gets her act together and meets all of your conditions , you can stop the divorce and begin your reconciliation. Nothing's lost here. Your wife will respect the hell out of you afterwards. She'll know you have the courage to move on with your life without her and that's as strong a message you can possibly give to a wayward spouse.


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## lucy999

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?" good reply?


WOW.

Curious-did you stay silent or respond?


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## Nucking Futs

lucy999 said:


> WOW.
> 
> Curious-did you stay silent or respond?


I would suggest we run a pool on it but I suspect we'd all bet the same way.


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## Chicagohusband2020

lucy999 said:


> WOW.
> 
> Curious-did you stay silent or respond?


Not as of yet


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## Rubix Cubed

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Not as of yet


Good man. Stick to your guns.


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## Beach123

So YOU adjusted your goals (to not accept a cheater as a spouse) when you found out she was messing around on you. why? Why would you move a boundary that’s there to keep you safe?

and if SHE isn’t doing 150% effort to repair the damage SHE has caused - then reconciling won’t ever work!

from what you’re describing - she is STILL cheating (or plotting how to keep cheating) on you!

file divorce papers! Maybe then she will get the message that you aren’t gonna put up with her crap behavior anymore!

ya see? She thinks she can walk all over you and you’ll stay! Don’t do that!

help yourself by divorcing her! Move money into your name only first - otherwise she will likely swipe all of whats available.


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## ConfusedDenver

Beach123 said:


> So YOU adjusted your goals (to not accept a cheater as a spouse) when you found out she was messing around on you. why? Why would you move a boundary that’s there to keep you safe?
> 
> and if SHE isn’t doing 150% effort to repair the damage SHE has caused - then reconciling won’t ever work!
> 
> from what you’re describing - she is STILL cheating (or plotting how to keep cheating) on you!
> 
> file divorce papers! Maybe then she will get the message that you aren’t gonna put up with her crap behavior anymore!
> 
> ya see? She thinks she can walk all over you and you’ll stay! Don’t do that!
> 
> help yourself by divorcing her! Move money into your name only first - otherwise she will likely swipe all of whats available.


He's still in love with her, that's why.


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## Chicagohusband2020

ConfusedDenver said:


> He's still in love with her, that's why.


Exactly otherwise this would be too easy. That is complicating things for the time being. But I will get over it


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## Beach123

But now you see what motivates her to stay with you. It’s not that she wants to be with you (because she isn’t). It’s not that she wants to talk to you (because she isn’t).

she just wants your money!

cant you see that perfectly well now from her text? Good move having your pay diverted!

close all joint accounts and joint credit cards. She will get the message she is on her own to figure out her money soon enough.


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## SunCMars

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Exactly otherwise this would be too easy. That is complicating things for the time being. But I will get over it


You will never get over the lost love, as it always leaves a scar.

Wounds heal, heels, as she, are meant to walk on and away from.


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## lucy999

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Not as of yet


Good for you. I feel like you're getting stronger with each interaction with her. Steer the course. Remember when I talked about things staring you in the face? This is one of those things ($$$).

Listen, I know it's hard. BTDT. For you, this is a marathon, not a sprint. By that I mean it will take time for your heart to catch up to your head. But don't languish!

I think you should spend some time picturing yourself living with a quality woman--one who you trust. One who doesn't ask where your paycheck is, one who doesn't have an admitted emo, possible physical affair. One who doesn't lie and blame shift. One who you can build a trusting and wholly transparent life with. Have children with if that's what you want. Really envision it.

Then you should envision your life should you R with your wife (don't recall if you're married-my apologies if I'm mistaken by calling her your wife).


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## ButtPunch

There is a very fine line that separates love and codependence.

Grieve the loss of your wife but do not let fear of change keep you from making proper decisions.


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## Openminded

I hope you do manage to get over it. I stayed for decades with a cheater when I shouldn’t have. Yes, some do change but the truth is that you never know for certain what the person you love is really capable of. You think you do but you don’t.

I would say never allow yourself to love someone more than you love yourself. I know all too well how that can turn out. I don’t recommend it.


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Exactly otherwise this would be too easy. That is complicating things for the time being. But I will get over it


You do have an opportunity to use her feelings to your benefit, you know. I mean, she sure used yours to her benefit. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

If she is still in love with her AP and thinks they're going to be together, she might value getting out of this as fast as she can over taking everything she can. Only briefly, though. Maybe a few weeks to a few months.

Strike now to get you ducks in a row, legally speaking. Give her an easy divorce as long as she plays ball protecting your assets fairly. Before the AP dumps her, which almost inevitably happens. Then she'll panic for real, and take you for everything she possibly can, or become even more dramatic about getting back together.


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## SunCMars

ButtPunch said:


> There is a very fine line that separates love and codependence.
> 
> Grieve the loss of your wife but do not let fear of change keep you from making proper decisions.


Yes!

Amen, to that!

Amend your future plans, leaving her as that thought, in the past tense, the past sense, such nonsense.

She will have become a life in passing. 
A life, but, for a moment, it briefly missed.


_The Typist-_


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## SunCMars

No man or woman can love what is an imaginary thing, at least not for long.

So real, only real, was the part that was longing.

Feeling love is always real, while the object of love might be that thought, really just surreal.

Your wife was once real, that wife faded to an illusion. 

To an image, now viewed, ah, it stings, a sad view that waters well your eyes. 😰


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## TDSC60

> Exactly otherwise this would be too easy. That is complicating things for the time being. But I will get over it


Do you love her enough to let her go? Do you love her enough to let the OM have her? Do you love her enough to allow her to reach for the life with the OM (who she is in love with)? Do you love her enough to let her be happy with the man she wants to be with? Maybe you don't think they will be happy together, but that part is up to them. At this point it appears that this is what she wants, what she longs for.

Is that not what love is? To want the best for the person we love and want them to be happy?

She has shown and told you that she is no longer in love with you. Accept that as fact. Let her go. It will be hard on you for a while, but loving someone who does not return that love is pure torture.

The pain will fade over time as you accept the simple fact that she is the one who destroyed the marriage by bringing OM into it and sharing her life and body with him.


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## VladDracul

Chicago, your happiness with a woman is never based on your love for her. How much you love and want her is of little importance to her; no more than if some chick was head over heals in love with and you weren't the least be interested. To maximize your happiness with a woman the ratio of your love for her and hers for you needs to be at least 1:1.25. Keep it at that ratio and if her interest in you drops, you'll have no trouble cutting her loose if she want to go.


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## BluesPower

VladDracul said:


> Chicago, your happiness with a woman is never based on your love for her.


I never thought about this, but it is true. I have loved a lot of woman, but some of the ones I had the best time with were the ones that just loved me over the top. Yeah, I loved them, liked them, cared for them, but the relationship was great because they loved me so deeply. 

I also know now that you both want each other to love the other deeply. It is way, way better that way. 

But those day did teach me to say out loud that I needed to be loved. And I won't stay around if I am not feeling it. 

CH, brother you really need to find a woman that loves you, your wife is not that woman, I am sorry...


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## colingrant

The love may always be there Chicago. As I said in a previous post, love doesn't go away easily. Sometimes not at all. It took years to develop the depth of love you probably had with your wife, and my experience is it doesn't disappear even when infidelity happens.

Trust, respect and the special-ness is lost, but not the love in most cases. Even spouses who immediately divorce, don't stop loving them. They just decided they could no longer be with them. There's a difference. Don't settle too long behind the love thing, because it's going to be there and if you're waiting for it to leave, you may be waiting years.

You may not LIKE your wife, and the prospects of not being with her is where your struggle lies. Sometimes long married couples identify themselves with being with the other, and never without them. So, in a sense your personal identity changes.

It's possible you may be grappling with this, where a future exists without someone that's been one, her with you and you with her. To permanently separate conjures up an emotional independence that's hard to come to terms with. This is atypical.

Again, in nearly every thing I've read, plus having been cheated on twice, my experience is the love remains with you........BUT the decision should be based on answers to the following questions,

1) Can you live with the infidelity having a permanent stain or marker in your relationship? Assume the love stays. People just don't stop loving others because of infidelity typically. If it were that easy, many would find it much easier to leave the betrayer.

2) Can you live with the fact that you can't trust her and lost some respect for her? Conversely, her love for YOU is questionable at best, and I contend anyone who has an affair, does not or did not respect not only the marriage commitment but also the person they cheated on. As stated previously, love, respect and trust are requirements, not alternatives, options or bonuses.

To sum this math up. She trusts you, but doesn't respect you and possibly doesn't love you (questionable). For you, you love her, but can't trust her and your respect for her is questionable, probably. As a whole, 50% of what is MINIMALLY required in a marital or sustainable relationship is NOT PRESENT, and perhaps as much as 66% depending on if your respect for her and her love for you. These numbers won't work short, intermediate or long term.

3) The question is,

Can you live with this and if so, for how long?
Are you willing to rebuild the lost (respect & trust, etc.) so that it is 100% for both sides?
Is she capable and willing to rebuild the lost components? And even if she were, is it enough for you?
Does she want this? Does she even know? Starts here as far as I'm concerned. If she doesn't want it, nothing else before or after in this post, has any meaning whatsoever. None!
If she's unsure, what does this mean and are you willing to wait? Uncertainty means different things. It's possible she's in the fog and confused or it could be she's confused between you and her AP. Personally, if it's the latter, I'd serve her immediately. I'd actually serve her regardless, now that I'm thinking about it. Uncertainty is limbo. Limbo is excruciating and at this stage, it's all about you. Don't fear being selfish to the point of prioritizing you and your needs. More than likely, being in limbo may not work, so don't be agreeable if it's not agreeable to you.
Do you even want her, knowing or thinking how you may view her from here on out?You will never see her the same way. Pretty sure of this. So, is this good enough for you? The special-ness typically can't be regenerated. Maybe, maybe not. Question is are you willing to spend years finding out?There are significant risks involved here, as rolling the dice to find out places years of your life in question, as decisions made now will determine your level of happiness for the remaining years of your life. Big decision here. My decision to end my relationships were solely based on things in this bullet point.


----------



## Blondilocks

VladDracul said:


> Chicago, your happiness with a woman is never based on your love for her. How much you love and want her is of little importance to her; no more than if some chick was head over heals in love with and you weren't the least be interested. *To maximize your happiness with a woman the ratio of your love for her and hers for you needs to be at least 1:1.25.* Keep it at that ratio and if her interest in you drops, you'll have no trouble cutting her loose if she want to go.


I'm getting a nasty red pill vibe. Say it ain't so, Joe.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

colingrant said:


> The love may always be there Chicago. As I said in a previous post, love doesn't go away easily. Sometimes not at all. It took years to develop the depth of love you probably had with your wife, and my experience is it doesn't disappear even when infidelity happens.
> 
> Trust, respect and the special-ness is lost, but not the love in most cases. Even spouses who immediately divorce, don't stop loving them. They just decided they could no longer be with them. There's a difference. Don't settle too long behind the love thing, because it's going to be there and if you're waiting for it to leave, you may be waiting years.
> 
> You may not LIKE your wife, and the prospects of not being with her is where your struggle lies. Sometimes long married couples identify themselves with being with the other, and never without them. So, in a sense your personal identity changes.
> 
> It's possible you may be grappling with this, where a future exists without someone that's been one, her with you and you with her. To permanently separate conjures up an emotional independence that's hard to come to terms with. This is atypical.
> 
> Again, in nearly every thing I've read, plus having been cheated on twice, my experience is the love remains with you........BUT the decision should be based on answers to the following questions,
> 
> 1) Can you live with the infidelity having a permanent stain or marker in your relationship? Assume the love stays. People just don't stop loving others because of infidelity typically. If it were that easy, many would find it much easier to leave the betrayer.
> 
> 2) Can you live with the fact that you can't trust her and lost some respect for her? Conversely, her love for YOU is questionable at best, and I contend anyone who has an affair, does not or did not respect not only the marriage commitment but also the person they cheated on. As stated previously, love, respect and trust are requirements, not alternatives, options or bonuses.
> 
> To sum this math up. She trusts you, but doesn't respect you and possibly doesn't love you (questionable). For you, you love her, but can't trust her and your respect for her is questionable, probably. As a whole, 50% of what is MINIMALLY required in a marital or sustainable relationship is NOT PRESENT, and perhaps as much as 66% depending on if your respect for her and her love for you. These numbers won't work short, intermediate or long term.
> 
> 3) The question is,
> 
> Can you live with this and if so, for how long?
> Are you willing to rebuild the lost (respect & trust, etc.) so that it is 100% for both sides?
> Is she capable and willing to rebuild the lost components? And even if she were, is it enough for you?
> Does she want this? Does she even know? Starts here as far as I'm concerned. If she doesn't want it, nothing else before or after in this post, has any meaning whatsoever. None!
> If she's unsure, what does this mean and are you willing to wait? Uncertainty means different things. It's possible she's in the fog and confused or it could be she's confused between you and her AP. Personally, if it's the latter, I'd serve her immediately. I'd actually serve her regardless, now that I'm thinking about it. Uncertainty is limbo. Limbo is excruciating and at this stage, it's all about you. Don't fear being selfish to the point of prioritizing you and your needs. More than likely, being in limbo may not work, so don't be agreeable if it's not agreeable to you.
> Do you even want her, knowing or thinking how you may view her from here on out?You will never see her the same way. Pretty sure of this. So, is this good enough for you? The special-ness typically can't be regenerated. Maybe, maybe not. Question is are you willing to spend years finding out?There are significant risks involved here, as rolling the dice to find out places years of your life in question, as decisions made now will determine your level of happiness for the remaining years of your life. Big decision here. My decision to end my relationships were solely based on things in this bullet point.


Thank you for this very informative and helpful


----------



## Gabriel

Good post above. I can relate to a lot of it and what you are going through. My wife fell in love with a long time friend of hers. They were platonic for 20 years. Never dated. I knew him pretty well too. They got together 1-2x a year to hang out locally for the day - it would go from 1pm to midnight - hanging at his parents' house, or with mutual friends, whatever. It was all allowed and fine. I even was occasionally a small part of the day.

But she grew less happy with me over time, and turned to him - he was a very willing receptor, but at first he was like, no, not you guys, but then, later, was totally in love with her. Thankfully, I caught this before they got physical, but they absolutely would have - maybe I intervened with a couple weeks to spare. (email exchanges confirmed 100% no physical stuff happened)

Rebounding from that was the worst, hardest, most awful thing I've ever done. It was years of pain. My wife was like yours in that she admitted she was wrong, but also blamed me for being a bad husband (which I was and I won't get into that here). We went back and forth, and the only reasons we made it through were 

1) I 100% enforced no-contact - you can't continue falling in love when you can't talk, can't see, can't email, text, etc.
2) They didn't get physical. 

If one of these two went the other way, we'd be living very different, apart lives right now. 

If she is in love with him like, for real, not just puppy-fantasy love, then you either have to 100% remove that from her life, or let her go. The fantasy is rarely as good as the reality. She'll crawl back, and then it's your turn to break her heart.


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## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> I'm getting a nasty red pill vibe. Say it ain't so, Joe.


Women, to men always *have that red pill hue.

Under that dress are white underclothes, and wishing them blue filled, bars you forever from washing clean these fine silk things.

It is better to take a woman to bed (ignorantly), in the dark of the night, then be wishing for blue frill, and finding them red, still.


_The Typist-_

The Typist wrote *bleed, I edited it to keep his hide in fact, intact.
Gwendolyn-


----------



## SunCMars

CH2020, I have noticed that the men have circled their wagons about you.

Why is this?

To protect the male honor and pride
To project their wounded and impaled ardor, theirs having, near died.

The women have also supported you and your plight.

Why is this?

It is the right thing to do.
Yours is the only CWI thread still primed to go.

Wound tight, these CWI threads cut the deepest.

No man, no woman should suffer as the one betrayed.


----------



## Marc878

Gabriel said:


> Good post above. I can relate to a lot of it and what you are going through. My wife fell in love with a long time friend of hers. They were platonic for 20 years. Never dated. I knew him pretty well too. They got together 1-2x a year to hang out locally for the day - it would go from 1pm to midnight - hanging at his parents' house, or with mutual friends, whatever. It was all allowed and fine. I even was occasionally a small part of the day.


This is why there should never be one on one opposite sex relationships. They can develop. Live and learn.


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## OutofRetirement

Respond openly and honestly to your wife about your feelings and why you diverted your direct deposit, like a loving husband would to a wife. That will have a bigger impact on realizing your reality than reading a hundred anons here telling you. Of course they are all right. But what do you believe, a hundred anons or your own experience of 16 years of wedded bliss minus two months of heartbreak?

I think I posted before, but your wife detached from you a year ago. You are way behind in detachment, that''s why you feel the way you feel, and that's why we all know she will not care too much about your feelings.


----------



## SunCMars

Marc878 said:


> This is why there should never be one on one opposite sex relationships. They can develop. Live and learn.


Live and let die, those cheaters!!


----------



## colingrant

Chicago.......Listed below is the synopsis of a betrayed husband's experience which happened 25 years ago. He just created his profile three days ago on another site and shares his thoughts in painful detail, how the affair experience and memories have mysteriously resurfaced despite being over two decades ago. I'm not sharing this to scare you, but simply make you aware of the potential long term impact as you reflect and decide how to proceed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I discovered 10 years into my marriage that my beautiful, adorable, innocent wife, had a 2 month affair 5 years earlier. I was absolutely devastated, emotional crushed. It was like my heart was ripped out my chest. It was by far the worst emotional pain that I had ever suffered in my life. I can’t even begin to explain all the emotions I felt. I was so totally distort I collapsed to the floor.

How could someone i loved with all my heart, who I adored, who promised in front of god to love, to cherish, to death do us part have betray me? It was if my life had ended right there and then. When I confronted my wife about the affair she broke down, she felt to her knees, crying uncontrollably, repeating I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, begging for my forgiveness. She attempted to hug me but I was unresponsive.

I was in total shock and couldn’t move. That was 25 years ago. I forgave my wife. The healing took years but we slowly built our relationship back. My wife loves me dearly and I love her more than anything in this world. Our 3 children are now adults and have families of their own. We are a close family. I have never spoken about my wife’s betrayal to anyone until now.

This was very painful to write. Lots of tears and emotions. Even though we are happy living together the thoughts of the betrayal have never left me but I was able to manage. For some reason, over the last 2 weeks the memories of the betrayal have come back with vengeance. I’m going through all sorts of emotional stress. The thoughts are constant. They are dominating my thoughts every minute of the day. I feel like i’m going crazy.

I need help! I need to talk to someone who can relate to what I’m going through. Someone who has experienced the same pain and has healed or is healing and is able to help me. I can’t continue with emotional torture everyday. Unless anyone has gone through the pain of betrayal it it’s impossible to imagine, let alone relate to what I’m going through. Thank you for taking the time to read my story. Regards Heartbroken.


----------



## colingrant

OutofRetirement said:


> .......your wife detached from you a year ago. You are way behind in detachment, that''s why you feel the way you feel, and that's why we all know she will not care too much about your feelings.


In many of these anonymous post, rests a gem or two (or few) in truth and meaning. This is a gem here.


----------



## Gabriel

Marc878 said:


> This is why there should never be one on one opposite sex relationships. They can develop. Live and learn.


Amen.

I will never condone that in any thread, ever.


----------



## VladDracul

Blondilocks said:


> I'm getting a nasty red pill vibe. Say it ain't so, Joe.


Although I heard the phrase before, I'm not sure what it is. I stated that its better for the man when a woman loves him at least slightly more than he loves her. Its probably the same benefit for the woman in the other direction. Indulge me and tell me this Blondi. If you take a sample of 10 typical and both physically and mentally healthy women, how many will get involved with another man if they all have a high romantic interest and high level of respect for their spouse?


----------



## st5555

VladDracul said:


> Although I heard the phrase before, I'm not sure what it is. I stated that its better for the man when a woman loves him at least slightly more than he loves her. Its probably the same benefit for the woman in the other direction. Indulge me and tell me this Blondi. If you take a sample of 10 typical and both physically and mentally healthy women, how many will get involved with another man if they all have a high romantic interest and high level of respect for their spouse?


The Red Pill/Blue Pill comes from the movie "The Matrix". If you take the Red Pill, you wake up to what is reality. If you take the Blue Pill, you stay in the matrix which is a computer generated virtual reality fantasy.


----------



## VladDracul

Thanks ST. In that case, I'd suggest the Red Pill. Sides, reality always has a way of coming around to kick your butt without having to take a pill.


----------



## Marduk

st5555 said:


> The Red Pill/Blue Pill comes from the movie "The Matrix". If you take the Red Pill, you wake up to what is reality. If you take the Blue Pill, you stay in the matrix which is a computer generated virtual reality fantasy.


Having been a red pill guy for a while, and actually talking to guys like Athol Kay over a fairly long period of time... I can comfortably say the Red Pill stuff is yet another fantasy world.

Won't derail this thread, but if someone wants to talk about it elsewhere, I'm happy to.


----------



## Blondilocks

VladDracul said:


> Although I heard the phrase before, I'm not sure what it is. I stated that its better for the man when a woman loves him at least slightly more than he loves her. Its probably the same benefit for the woman in the other direction. Indulge me and tell me this Blondi. If you take a sample of 10 typical and both physically and mentally healthy women, how many will get involved with another man if they all have a high romantic interest and high level of respect for their spouse?


This article will shed light on the red pill in relationships:
Married Red Pill: The Soulless Subreddit For Men Who Game Their Wives

As to your question, I would venture very few. What you are proposing with the ratio of 1:1.25 is essentially a power play. The partner who is least invested has the most power. The power to not give a ****. The truth is this power shifts back and forth in a long-term relationship. It has to in order for the relationship to survive. Rare is the couple where one is consistently infatuated and the other is consistently 'meh' (ambivalent) . 

To set out with the goal of having the girl be the one who is consistently head-over-heals is a fool's errand. You might earn an Oscar for your acting, but it will be one hand clapping on awards night.


----------



## Thor

VladDracul said:


> Thanks ST. In that case, I'd suggest the Red Pill. Sides, reality always has a way of coming around to kick your butt without having to take a pill.


Red Pill means a lot more than just being in reality. An entire life philosophy and world view are encapsulated in a subculture calling themselves Red Pill. It is a lot like a good conspiracy theory where there is some truth in the framework but then it is taken to extremes. Red Pill becomes harmful to many men rather than facilitating a more fulfilling life.


----------



## MattMatt

MODERATOR NOTE: Please, no more Red Pill threadjacking.


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## VladDracul

Blondilocks said:


> What you are proposing with the ratio of 1:1.25 is essentially a power play.


I see what youre saying but that's not what I have in mind. My thinking is it allows a man to have control over himself and not get caught in the position like many cats on this site who are clearly needy, mesmerized, totally obsessed, and can't let go of a wife who has lost romantic feelings and respect for them and already "took up" with another man. ( you know that days, weeks and months of begging ain't gonna git no woman's love and desire for you back). 2. Notwithstanding that feeling can change, if a man only stays in a relationship where the woman loves and sacrifices for him more , or at least as much, as he loves and sacrifices for her, there is less risk she'll ditch him for another guy.
Bear in mind to that seizing power, in the context we're talking about, over another person in a relationship only works if the other person allows you have that power. Ultimately it up to the individual to resist power plays against them. I don't recommend getting involved you can't walk away from when you're no longer their number one. In the final analysis, the most power you possess is the power to get out from where you're no longer at the top of the food chain.


----------



## sokillme

colingrant said:


> Chicago.......Listed below is the synopsis of a betrayed husband's experience which happened 25 years ago. He just created his profile three days ago on another site and shares his thoughts in painful detail, how the affair experience and memories have mysteriously resurfaced despite being over two decades ago. I'm not sharing this to scare you, but simply make you aware of the potential long term impact as you reflect and decide how to proceed.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I discovered 10 years into my marriage that my beautiful, adorable, innocent wife, had a 2 month affair 5 years earlier. I was absolutely devastated, emotional crushed. It was like my heart was ripped out my chest. It was by far the worst emotional pain that I had ever suffered in my life. I can’t even begin to explain all the emotions I felt. I was so totally distort I collapsed to the floor.
> 
> How could someone i loved with all my heart, who I adored, who promised in front of god to love, to cherish, to death do us part have betray me? It was if my life had ended right there and then. When I confronted my wife about the affair she broke down, she felt to her knees, crying uncontrollably, repeating I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, begging for my forgiveness. She attempted to hug me but I was unresponsive.
> 
> I was in total shock and couldn’t move. That was 25 years ago. I forgave my wife. The healing took years but we slowly built our relationship back. My wife loves me dearly and I love her more than anything in this world. Our 3 children are now adults and have families of their own. We are a close family. I have never spoken about my wife’s betrayal to anyone until now.
> 
> This was very painful to write. Lots of tears and emotions. Even though we are happy living together the thoughts of the betrayal have never left me but I was able to manage. For some reason, over the last 2 weeks the memories of the betrayal have come back with vengeance. I’m going through all sorts of emotional stress. The thoughts are constant. They are dominating my thoughts every minute of the day. I feel like i’m going crazy.
> 
> I need help! I need to talk to someone who can relate to what I’m going through. Someone who has experienced the same pain and has healed or is healing and is able to help me. I can’t continue with emotional torture everyday. Unless anyone has gone through the pain of betrayal it it’s impossible to imagine, let alone relate to what I’m going through. Thank you for taking the time to read my story. Regards Heartbroken.


This is an interesting post I am convinced people like this mistakenly believe that taking their cheating spouses back will somehow lesson the pain when in reality they still suffer just as intense pain early but they prolong the suffering with a dull pain that stays as long as they are with them. If you dump them you suffer just as greatly in the short term but it goes away after about a year. As soon as you fall in love with someone else it goes away forever, at least in my experience. Besides that the old marriage is never coming back so you are not going to get back what you once had, even if you are finally just realizing it you are married to a vastly different person then you thought you were.

There are also some significant "tells" in his writing too. He refers to hie wife and innocent. Men who think of their wives like innocent saint like children get taken advantage of by those innocent saintlike children. This is the male version of the prince charming thing that women do. I think people who have magic thinking generally have bad marriages because it's not reality. Sounds like he still sees her that way which doesn't make it surprising that it's blown up in his face. You can't live out a facade forever.

He also never spoke about it so he totally rugswept, which means she probably didn't suffer any consequences at all. Hell her kids might not even know. Best thing you can do to a cheater is expose them far and wide. You should not be ashamed but they sure as hell should. There has to be consequences in life, again this also goes to the idea of thinking of your wife a child who you protect from her own poor choices, essentially she transfers the role of her father to you. There is generally a pattern to this and the cheating is just the culmination of allowing them to avoid consequences from the dumb **** they do. Not a good dynamic for a marriage. By the way women do this too when they overly coddle their man-boy husbands. Nothing worse then having an extra child. People who are not mature and adult in their relationships do dumb **** like cheat. Besides no one respects a pushover.

Thing is if you stay it will never go away, you are just playing out the clock and hopping that staying is worth it and continues to be worth it. You will have to learn to live with it. One day you may wake up and be tired of your wife's ******** at which point the idea of loyalty which might have gotten you over the hump will not longer exist because she isn't deserving of it. Besides that I think eventually everyone comes to terms with the fact that if they cheat on you they don't really love you, not in the way you want. The question you have to asks is why would you want to stay with someone who doesn't love you.

This man is coming to terms with those two things, in a sense his pain of being betrayed is now just intensified by the realization that he has wasted a good part of his life. That is a hell of thing to deal with because you didn't have the courage to deal with it at the time. I suggest to anyone going through this that you face the cold harsh reality that people who love others don't cheat on them. That is really the bottom line. Face it now when you still have a chance to rebuilt your life instead of years later when you feel like you wasted it.

It's my belief that you should never love someone enough to let them abuse you and stay with them. I am not sure if you can say that is even love, in my mind love assume you will be respected. Besides that everything in life ends, everything. The sooner we all face it the better off we will be to make informed decisions.

Bottom line, here is my advice, do what you want with it, when someone abuses you, friend of foe punch them in the mouth and do it hard (I am speaking figuratively of course) you will have a resoundingly better life. You can forgive and turn the other cheek later. **** you are going to suffer either way but at least you can look at yourself in the mirror.


----------



## sokillme

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We had an emotional talk this morning. She is going to move out for a period of weeks while we Both figure Out what we want. I mentioned that I was now at the same
> Place she was a month ago, wanting space to figure out the relationship.
> 
> she was resistant to leaving and gave many reasons why she couldn’t. But I stuck to my guns and has an answer for every excuse.
> 
> I know this goes against some of the advice I have received on here. But I do want to use the time apart to really think about what I want. I don’t want to do anything that I cannot turn back on. My plan is evaluate if I could ever trust again. If I think after reflection I want to R ask her again and give her a chance to be honest.
> 
> maybe Over the next few weeks I will change my mind on that. But I know I did contribute to the affair but that is by no means a reason to have one
> 
> any advise on behavior while sepersted for the next few weeks


Question why do you think someone asks for a divorce and who can tell you ILYBINILWY one day an just a week later doesn't want to leave would be anywhere near stable enough to continue a relationship with? You should dump this silly women. Love or not, there are a lot of people you can love, and I assure you you will love again if you do. It takes time but you will have a much better life. Seriously nothing could be worst then being married to someone who changes loyalties on a dime all dependent on the amount of attention they get. That is not a good choice.


----------



## lovelygirl

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> ...... But I know I did contribute to the affair but that is by no means a reason to have one
> 
> any advise on behavior while sepersted for the next few weeks


Hell NO!!!! You didn't contribute to her affair. She consciously CHOSE to have it!!! 

If you think you didn't do well on your part as a husband, you could be right....BUT there were other ways to find a solution. What way she sought? The affair. So it was on her, not on you to find this way to escape the problems that you had in your marriage.

And be careful not to say, mean or imply anything that might lead her to think that it could've been your fault for HER affair, otherwise you'll find yourself in an unfair blame-shfting situation.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

You can contribute and even be a source of a bad marriage even a rotten one, but an affair is an immoral choice that is made by the people having it. Then again if a person cheats their judgment is in question anyway.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Thanks everyone for the replies, I have been taking some time away from the forum to enjoy life as much as I can during COVID, been exercising, seeing friends and meeting some new people via friends, keeping very busy, actually maybe as busy the last couple weeks as I ever have been

I have found in the last week my WW has really amped up the communication (texting), sending me updates from her day, photos of what she is doing, discussing her family. Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) its like she is on some vacation having a fun time. I am not sure what her angle is, or if there is one


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies, I have been taking some time away from the forum to enjoy life as much as I can during COVID, been exercising, seeing friends and meeting some new people via friends, keeping very busy, actually maybe as busy the last couple weeks as I ever have been
> 
> I have found in the last week my WW has really amped up the communication (texting), sending me updates from her day, photos of what she is doing, discussing her family. Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) its like she is on some vacation having a fun time. I am not sure what her angle is, or if there is one


Her angle is to make sure you're still interested. It's why she never asks how you're doing, because she doesn't care how you're doing. All she cares about is that you're still there for her to go to if she wants it, and will give her attention when she wants it.

She won't want to discuss the affair or the separation because that's just going to harsh her affair buzz.


----------



## lovelygirl

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I have found in the last week my WW has really amped up the communication (texting), sending me updates from her day, photos of what she is doing, discussing her family. Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) its like she is on some vacation having a fun time. I am not sure what her angle is, or if there is one


Because deep down she doesn't care how you're doing. She wants to behave like nothing happened so that there is no chance for you to keep on investigating or open that topic again. She's playing it cool, hoping you'll be over this asap and things can back to "normal" again. She's acting like back in the day when the two of you were dating and used to send each other pictures from your daily life. 








In a few words, she's trying to take you for a fool.


----------



## colingrant

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies, I have been taking some time away from the forum to enjoy life as much as I can during COVID, been exercising, seeing friends and meeting some new people via friends, keeping very busy, actually maybe as busy the last couple weeks as I ever have been
> 
> I have found in the last week my WW has really amped up the communication (texting), sending me updates from her day, photos of what she is doing, discussing her family. *Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) its like she is on some vacation having a fun time.* I am not sure what her angle is, or if there is one


It's called rug sweeping, wayward style.  How are you responding?


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## Chicagohusband2020

colingrant said:


> It's called rug sweeping, wayward style.  How are you responding?


Very little, one word replies, always waiting several hours to reply, no replying with what I am doing, although I am posting some of it to IG and she is liking the posts.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

lovelygirl said:


> Because deep down she doesn't care how you're doing. She wants to behave like nothing happened so that there is no chance for you to keep on investigating or open that topic again. She's playing it cool, hoping you'll be over this asap and things can back to "normal" again. She's acting like back in the day when the two of you were dating and used to send each other pictures from your daily life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a few words, she's trying to take you for a fool.


This is apparent by now. Today marks 3 week since I found out about the affair. I thought once confronted 17 days ago there would be a 180 in the behavior but in reality the giving 2 s*its about me has continued. Hard to wrap my head around how you treat someone like that after 14 years, but life goes on I guess. I will be able to wrap it eventually


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Very little, one word replies, always waiting several hours to reply, no replying with what I am doing, although I am posting some of it to IG and she is liking the posts.


Don't respond at all and block her on IG and everything else.

Do you have your own bank account that she can't access? Are your paychecks going into it?


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## lovelygirl

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Very little, one word replies, always waiting several hours to reply, no replying with what I am doing, *although I am posting some of it to IG and she is liking the posts.*


I need a wall.

To bang my head hard against it!


You should not be replying to her at all!

Seriously???Are you playing hard to get? Taking hours to replyyyy, acting like you haven't seen those messages, acting disinteresteeeed. ....and then replying laaaater....
This is a typical behaviour in the first few days of dating. Stop it!

Separation and 180 is for YOU to clarify your mind and be away from her as much as possible. To clear your head and ideas, to think objectively. It's not to ease her "anxiety" .

If I were you, I'd either leave it 'SEEN' and not reply at all or even better I wouldn't read those messages.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Have you considered posting something to make her wonder what you are up to and mess with her mind? It could be a lot of fun should you come up with a good idea.


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> This is apparent by now. Today marks 3 week since I found out about the affair. I thought once confronted 17 days ago there would be a 180 in the behavior but in reality the giving 2 s*its about me has continued. Hard to wrap my head around how you treat someone like that after 14 years, but life goes on I guess. I will be able to wrap it eventually


Wondering, what does "wrap it" actually mean? Filing for divorce? 

I hope so, and wish you good luck...


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) its like she is on some vacation having a fun time. I am not sure what her angle is, or if there is one


Is this a new behavior for her? Has she ever done this before during your relationship?

Why do people do this, in general? Is it not to put up an appearance, a facade, to the viewer/reader? We all know there always are things we are unhappy about, or at least trying to improve on, and we talk about those things to those we are close to. She is giving a facade to you, she is having fun, like a vacation. Do you know why she is doing that? Why would she want you to think she is busy and happy without you?

Those we are close to, do we usually ask them, "how are you?" Especially if that person is in a possibly bad situation - i.e., in a quarantine with COVID, with a spouse separated to get clarity. Why would she not ask you directly, how are you doing? Is it possible she wants to get an idea about where you stand, without having to actually ask? Is it a way for her to say, "I know you miss me, and I am open for you to respond to me that you are sorry"?


----------



## Marduk

OutofRetirement said:


> Is this a new behavior for her? Has she ever done this before during your relationship?
> 
> Why do people do this, in general? Is it not to put up an appearance, a facade, to the viewer/reader? We all know there always are things we are unhappy about, or at least trying to improve on, and we talk about those things to those we are close to. She is giving a facade to you, she is having fun, like a vacation. Do you know why she is doing that? Why would she want you to think she is busy and happy without you?
> 
> Those we are close to, do we usually ask them, "how are you?" Especially if that person is in a possibly bad situation - i.e., in a quarantine with COVID, with a spouse separated to get clarity. Why would she not ask you directly, how are you doing? Is it possible she wants to get an idea about where you stand, without having to actually ask? Is it a way for her to say, "I know you miss me, and I am open for you to respond to me that you are sorry"?


In my experience, this behaviour is common and is typically to do:

Make sure that they have you to go back to if things don't work out with the affair partner, or
Ease their guilt for blowing the whole relationship by trying to act as if everything's fine and normal


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## Marc878

You know the score. She thinks she’s worth more than you. Which means you’ll never be able to trust her again. I suspect the affair is still ongoing via online. That’s why she can stay above it all with you.


----------



## Openminded

There’s no need at all to respond to her. 

As to why she’s doing it? To keep you dangling as she rug sweeps her affair. You know, just in case she decides to pick Plan B (that’s you).


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## Lostinthought61

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> This is apparent by now. Today marks 3 week since I found out about the affair. I thought once confronted 17 days ago there would be a 180 in the behavior but in reality the giving 2 s*its about me has continued. Hard to wrap my head around how you treat someone like that after 14 years, but life goes on I guess. I will be able to wrap it eventually


I’m not sure if you are waiting for a lightbulb to go off in her head....this is self preservation time she would rather have status quo than do anything the ball is in your court....the longer you don’t play the more she sees you as weak.


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## 3Xnocharm

Marduk said:


> In my experience, this behaviour is common and is typically to do:
> 
> Ease their guilt for blowing the whole relationship by trying to act as if everything's fine and normal


This. If you talk to her like normal or like a friend, then that gives her the reassurance that you don’t hate her and that she didn’t really rip your heart and your life to shreds. So no guilt for her. 

Tell her outright to stop contacting you. You have no reason to communicate unless about divorce or kids. And tell her to email it, and block her on your phone. She fired you as her husband, so she doesn’t get access any more. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Openminded

I think the problem is that you don’t really want that contact to go away. Not yet anyway. Maybe never?


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## Help1107

Reading your story brought back so many sad memories, the hope that they will change, just wanting everything to go back to normal, that you would give anything if they would just pick you. 
I’m sorry to say they won’t.
I did this with my ex’s first affair.
A year after D-Day he moved back in and I thought to myself why did I want this selfish person back?
The second affair, I kicked him out and filed for divorce.
It takes awhile to stop loving the memory of that person that they were before they crushed your heart, but trust me when I say it does get better, you do wake up one day and they are not the first thing you think of.
It takes time but you will get there.
Do you have children?
If not be thankful that you can make a clean break and never have to see her again.

If you do, only talk about the children,
and scheduling pick up and drop offs.
Only talk about the children nothing else.
Do the 180, like everyone has suggested.


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## ABHale

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies, I have been taking some time away from the forum to enjoy life as much as I can during COVID, been exercising, seeing friends and meeting some new people via friends, keeping very busy, actually maybe as busy the last couple weeks as I ever have been
> 
> I have found in the last week my WW has really amped up the communication (texting), sending me updates from her day, photos of what she is doing, discussing her family. Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) its like she is on some vacation having a fun time. I am not sure what her angle is, or if there is one


She is read up on what she needs to do. Love bombing is next.

She is letting you know where she is and what she is doing to try and rebuild trust.


----------



## colingrant

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> This is apparent by now. Today marks 3 week since I found out about the affair. *I thought once confronted 17 days ago there would be a 180 in the behavior but in reality the giving 2 s*its about me has continued*. Hard to wrap my head around how you treat someone like that after 14 years, but life goes on I guess. I will be able to wrap it eventually


It's important to manage your expectations if reconciliation is being considered. As I mentioned in a previous post, the timetable where feelings of remorse or real care for you, are shown, varies in each wayward spouse. It's similar to the striking differences in how betrayed spouses respond.

The question concerning her timetable is actually one that points the finger back to you. It's not so much *when is she going to show remorse, but how long are you willing to wait *and also, specifically, what does signs of remorse look like? While pondering your future relationship with or without her, thinking about these two questions and answering them, will give you framework for decision making. Structured thinking is tough when being confronted with something you've not had to deal with.

Where I've seen people get in trouble is being in limbo for YEARS, because they didn't have a deadline for themselves. And worse, they renewed their own timetable so frequently, they revealed weakness to the wayward spouse who saw their spouse in weakened stupor, unable to uphold there own boundaries.

Or, it took so long, the love was sapped completely out of the betrayed spouses heart. Now, one could say, a wayward spouse will wake up at a time when it comes upon them.That may be true, but what does that have to do with you? That's her problem, not yours. Your timetable is your timetable just like hers is hers. Yours doesn't have to be dictated by hers. The two don't necessarily correlate or align. Just understand this.

What I'm saying here is stay in control of you. Think about the framework for making decisions and decide when you are capable of making them. Here's where you can't go wrong Chicago. Fear and infidelity cannot coexist. If fearful, you will welcome compromise settling, and suffering.

Conviction and courage will be unsettling, but will not lead you to settle. Knowing your self worth will liberate you. Not knowing it will keep you captive. Wayward spouses fear fearless betrayed spouses, because it eats at there own power and increases it in the one they seek to remain weakened, the betrayed. Commit to getting your mind right. This is where you will win. Winning is measured in the long run, not the short one.


----------



## VladDracul

lovelygirl said:


> Seriously???Are you playing hard to get? Taking hours to replyyyy, acting like you haven't seen those messages, acting disinteresteeeed. ....and then replying laaaater....
> This is a typical behaviour in the first few days of dating. Stop it!


You mean his play acting ain't working on this woman. How can that be. I thought that when a man acted distant, a woman who quit giving a flying f about him would suddenly realize just how special he is, become filled with remorse and self loathing about how she hurt him, and fall head over heels in love with him all over again, ditching her other lovers and coming back home to stay, never to roam again.


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## Beach123

Since she is away and on her own the likelihood of her continuing with the OM is high.

where is she getting her money? And does she have ANY access to joint money or credit cards?

if so, separate all ways for her to rack up any debt in joint names. If she is spending - you don’t want to be liable for half of what she’s out spending now.


----------



## sokillme

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies, I have been taking some time away from the forum to enjoy life as much as I can during COVID, been exercising, seeing friends and meeting some new people via friends, keeping very busy, actually maybe as busy the last couple weeks as I ever have been
> 
> I have found in the last week my WW has really amped up the communication (texting), sending me updates from her day, photos of what she is doing, discussing her family. Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) its like she is on some vacation having a fun time. I am not sure what her angle is, or if there is one


Maybe she is a narcissist. Look I can believe that most people if they are being honest can have a desire to have an affair at some point. And a lot of people can even go as far as to do it. But it takes a special kind of POS who can do it for long periods of time. That means you have a total disregard for someone you claim to and even in your mind would probably say you once love. Lets put off all pretenses those people are ****. All of this makes them a poor choice for anything but a purely physical relationship for fun. 

Hang out with these people at your own risk, marry these people at your own demise. You should never love someone enough to let them repeatedly disrespect you.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Openminded said:


> I think the problem is that you don’t really want that contact to go away. Not yet anyway. Maybe never?


Yes it is comforting, a glimpse into the past, sounds weird, but it is also very upsetting that it is just look at me messages and phots and not, "how are you, Im so sorry"


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## Chicagohusband2020

ABHale said:


> She is read up on what she needs to do. Love bombing is next.
> 
> She is letting you know where she is and what she is doing to try and rebuild trust.


Which would be nothing


----------



## Marc878

You have nothing to work with. which means how would you like to go through this again, and again?

Don‘t think that can’t happen. She changes nothing then nothing changes.


----------



## Gabriel

Brother, we live in the same place....as one Chicagoan to another, the ONLY way you will EVER get your wife back (if you want her) is to go completely cold on her right now.

Block her from IG or any other social media. Never answer her texts. Only email her or call her about house/kid business and nothing personal at all. Do not show any love or softness. Don't be cruel, just super duper cold. If she asks why you are doing that, tell her that you can't be in a relationship with a person who loves someone else, so all there is to talk about is necessary house or kid business. Tell her your door is closed to anything else because you are nobody's Plan B. Tell her you are not an option for her while she loves another man, and to stop contacting you in the meantime.


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## Chicagohusband2020

colingrant said:


> It's important to manage your expectations if reconciliation is being considered. As I mentioned in a previous post, the timetable where feelings of remorse or real care for you, are shown, varies in each wayward spouse. It's similar to the striking differences in how betrayed spouses respond.
> 
> The question concerning her timetable is actually one that points the finger back to you. It's not so much *when is she going to show remorse, but how long are you willing to wait *and also, specifically, what does signs of remorse look like? While pondering your future relationship with or without her, thinking about these two questions and answering them, will give you framework for decision making. Structured thinking is tough when being confronted with something you've not had to deal with.
> 
> Where I've seen people get in trouble is being in limbo for YEARS, because they didn't have a deadline for themselves. And worse, they renewed their own timetable so frequently, they revealed weakness to the wayward spouse who saw their spouse in weakened stupor, unable to uphold there own boundaries.
> 
> Or, it took so long, the love was sapped completely out of the betrayed spouses heart. Now, one could say, a wayward spouse will wake up at a time when it comes upon them.That may be true, but what does that have to do with you? That's her problem, not yours. Your timetable is your timetable just like hers is hers. Yours doesn't have to be dictated by hers. The two don't necessarily correlate or align. Just understand this.
> 
> What I'm saying here is stay in control of you. Think about the framework for making decisions and decide when you are capable of making them. Here's where you can't go wrong Chicago. Fear and infidelity cannot coexist. If fearful, you will welcome compromise settling, and suffering.
> 
> Conviction and courage will be unsettling, but will not lead you to settle. Knowing your self worth will liberate you. Not knowing it will keep you captive. Wayward spouses fear fearless betrayed spouses, because it eats at there own power and increases it in the one they seek to remain weakened, the betrayed. Commit to getting your mind right. This is where you will win. Winning is measured in the long run, not the short one.


Thanks for this reply, some very good and interesting thoughts here. Yes I think I do need to present my demands for reconciliation and set a time line, if they are not met by X date then it is over. And even if met it still could be over


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## sokillme

Better to accept however painful that your marriage as you knew it is over. No one absolutely no one even those that reconcile and are happy again feel like their marriage as they know it survived. 

The thing you need to decide is what is your best chance to have a happy life. Don't fall in the trap of trying to go back to what you thought you once had. It's can't be you were forced to take the pill, you live in the matrix now. 

That also doesn't mean you can have a good life. You life and happiness is never tied up into one person.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Beach123 said:


> Since she is away and on her own the likelihood of her continuing with the OM is high.
> 
> where is she getting her money? And does she have ANY access to joint money or credit cards?
> 
> if so, separate all ways for her to rack up any debt in joint names. If she is spending - you don’t want to be liable for half of what she’s out spending now.


I would agree its more likely than unlikely 

She has a good job and has her own bank account. I have cancelled all joint credit and my cheque goes into my own account


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## Help1107

Has she shown any true remorse? Got down on her knees to beg for forgiveness? If not, then she isn’t sorry for anything that she is putting you through, and chances are even if this OM doesn’t work out, she is going to look for another.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Help1107 said:


> Has she shown any true remorse? Got down on her knees to beg for forgiveness? If not, then she isn’t sorry for anything that she is putting you through, and chances are even if this OM doesn’t work out, she is going to look for another.


No, I confronted her about it 20 days ago. During that conversation there was a couple I am so sorry's. Then after later that evening there was a text to say I deserve better and she will work to fix this. But after that there has been nothing. Haven't seen her in person since, but if you go back several pages you will see some of our text exchanges. It has gone from blame shifting to now just a steady stream of look at what I am doing and check ins.


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## Help1107

The only way she would ever be truly able to fix this is stop communicating with the OM. I tried to have my ex do this when he was in his 1st affair. I always got an excuse how they work together and it would look bad if he snubbed her. If you don’t share children I would stop all communication. I know how hard it is.

I was with my ex since I was 16 and he 15. We were together for over 22 years and married for 14. I felt like I lost the other part of me.
Now almost 2 years post divorce, I could kick myself for how I wanted someone who could be so deceitful and lie to my face.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Help1107 said:


> The only way she would ever be truly able to fix this is stop communicating with the OM. I tried to have my ex do this when he was in his 1st affair. I always got an excuse how they work together and it would look bad if he snubbed her. If you don’t share children I would stop all communication. I know how hard it is.
> 
> I was with my ex since I was 16 and he 15. We were together for over 22 years and married for 14. I felt like I lost the other part of me.
> Now almost 2 years post divorce, I could kick myself for how I wanted someone who could be so deceitful and lie to my face.


We do not have kids. And yes same boat long term relationship, have gown up with her. Any tips on how to go cold turkey on communication


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks for this reply, some very good and interesting thoughts here. Yes I think I do need to present my demands for reconciliation and set a time line, if they are not met by X date then it is over. And even if met it still could be over


cmon man, she’s married to you and has a boyfriend?

Should be a 30second decision. In or out.
the big problem is cheaters lie a lot so her words mean nothing. Plus you don’t have the whole story and what you know is the “ tip of the iceberg “.

What you’re currently doing is putting yourself in limbo and hoping it’ll all go away.


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## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We do not have kids. And yes same boat long term relationship, have gown up with her. Any tips on how to go cold turkey on communication


Who controls your phone? The Calvary isn’t coming. It’s totally up to you.


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## Help1107

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We do not have kids. And yes same boat long term relationship, have gown up with her. Any tips on how to go cold turkey on communication


Unfortunately, I’m not able to go cold turkey, since we share a child. I only communicate about our child. School, medical appointments, etc. Maybe message some of your guy friends when you feel the urge to reach out, or workout, find a hobby.


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## Tdbo

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We do not have kids. And yes same boat long term relationship, have gown up with her. Any tips on how to go cold turkey on communication


Block her on your phone.
Refuse to engage in conversation with her.
Just ghost her.
When the inevitable happens, all communication can be through your attorney.


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## MattMatt

@Chicagohusband2020 In which State do you actually live? The reason I ask is that the divorce laws vary state-to-state as do laws regarding separation pre-divorce.

I'd hate for you to be given advice that might not work out in your favour, but which was valid in the state that the member was in.


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## colingrant

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We do not have kids. And yes same boat long term relationship, have gown up with her. Any tips on how to go cold turkey on communication


It's her job to figure this out, not yours. You can support her, but she has to want it for herself as much or more than you want it. She may/will slip up once or twice, so you'll have to set strong boundaries to see what you'll tolerate. With this being said, if she doesn't want to give him up, no boundaries or support will be enough. So, in some sense, you'll have to engage in some degree of surveillance if you're up to it, just so that you're not strung along unnecessarily.


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## Buffer

Brother, keep up what you are doing for your recovery, if you don’t look after your self who will?
Well no true remorse from WW, a limited sorry, ‘but you made me... ‘
Nah, doesn’t wash. Accountability and responsibilit, she has shown none. 
Trouble is she doesn’t recognise this; in her cheating mindset, she doing great at R. Keeping you informed where she is and what she has been up to. Tell her what you need and that D is very likely due to her inactions to help repair you. Not her action.
R is a crap 💩 sandwich with years of work, not a month of coffee shops and recovery shopping. 
Respect ✊ yourself and your values. One day at a time.
Buffer


----------



## OutofRetirement

*April 5*

She did admit to the affair. Said *it was just emotional, has been ongoing for 5 months. With flirting for a year. But she did also admit to sexting with him. And sharing explicit Snapchat videos a number of times in the last month. She also admitted to telling him she loved him. They have been talking daily since February.* She tried to deflect blame many times to me but I stood my ground.

She at first seemed more interested how I found out. *She was not overly excited to block him and delete contact.* I asked her to text him to stay it was over and never contact her again. And she messaged him saying, “My husband found out, it’s over, you contact me again or he will inform your company.”

She did block him, delete Snapchat, I told her after this time if he contacts her not to reply and to tell me. I also said if I find out at anytime she talked to him after today we were done no questions asked.

*I’m going NC for a week or so to decide what I WANT*. In the meantime locks have been changed.

*April 6*

I have to think about myself. I can cut this clean and restart, why put myself through all the work it will take? And after that will I ever be able to trust her? To look at her the same way?

She left the house Saturday (April 4) crying, talking about how she did want to fix things and didn't want to leave. When she did leave she jumped on a call with him for 40 minutes, then *laid in bed that night and played sexy message time while at the same time texting me saying she missed me and wanted to fix things.* Snake!

A couple times the last month she would come in all hot and bothered and would use me like a sex toy. Eyes closed. Thought she just didn't want to be emotional while we went through this, totally uncharacteristic. Now adding up she has been watching lover-boys video and using me to finish herself off. Makes me sick.

*April 7

She took every step imaginable to not allow me to find out. Which would have benefited her as she would have moved out I would have continued to blame myself and would have been nice to her in divorce. This has blown that all apart, and any attempt to R maybe just that, saving face.*

Well I just got a dose of Rug Sweeping. *WS asked if I was ready to go to marriage counselling* and that she had been seeing someone individually last couple of days.

I said I was not sure but that I needed to know she was fully committed to staying together and would jump rough all the hoops required to heal. I even shared an article about betrayed spouses and how they will act and how difficult it will be.

Here are some snippets of our conservation:

WS - "I think we need to explore if we can even make it work. We'd have to do a full reset because while what I did was wrong and I own that *it is a symptom of the issues we had before* and we have to fix those moving forward."

ME - "Why did you want to move out 10 days ago but now want to try therapy and reconcile?"

WS - "I asked for space I didn't ask to separate, I felt quarantine was exacerbated my feelings of loneliness and disconnect, I did not want to end things I wanted space to reflect and both of us to think how we can make relationship better."

ME - "But that whole time you were telling another man you loved him and having a sexual relationship. That would have continued 10 fold if you had your own space and didn't need to hide it from me."

WS - "No that would not have. I was not sleeping with him. I never had any physical encounter what so ever with him."

ME - "You had physical encounters in your mind."

WS - "And you haven't ever looking at porn."

ME - "That's not the same as a guy you are intimately talking too and seeing not even in the same universe."

WS - "It’s still fantasizing about being with someone else."

WS - "*If we can't even agree that we are equally at fault here I don't know how we can move forward.*"

I have seen more remorse from my dog for having an accident.

*April 12*

Another exchange on Friday night. Was unfortunately more of the same, focused on herself. She was upset that some members of my family have deleted her from Social media. Says my family hating her makes it harder to get back together. Seems oblivious that there are consequences to what she has done, she hurt not only me but others like my family.

Doesn't seem to be empathy remorse or even an acknowledgement of what has happened. She seems focused on working with her therapist on what she did to "contribute" to what got us here.

*April 15*

Maybe it’s the way the chain of events transpired. Three weeks of me thinking I was the worst husband around, beating myself up for ruining a decade long marriage, playing the pick me game (unknowingly), or maybe I am just a soft heart at the end of the day. I'm not sure.

As every day ticks by I come to the realization that there has been *in 10 days pretty much 0% on the part of my WS*. Our conversations while brief revolve around minor day to day things, she has apologies 3 times via text but also mention her working on herself, or *what I did to contribute to this etc., etc., numerous times*.

Her reaction when confronted about the adultery in person was underwhelming, seems more like the reaction if a teenager had their diary read. *More upset about how I had found out than my actual broken heart* of finding out. *There was trickle truth during that 45 minute conversation. Reluctance to even block the OM*, and when she messaged him it was more of a "he is going to tell your work" we should stop message than what you actually want to see. I am sure if I continue down the road there will be a lot more trickle truths. But at the end of the day I have made the decision that I don't want to have to do polygraph and policing and monitoring. I did it for 2 days and it was not a nice feeling.

I have some IC set up as the issue I have now is despite what has happened to me I still feel like a jerk if I was to do anything negative to her. I think a few pages earlier one member's put it quite well. It took her months to detach from me, which did like a chameleon I had no idea, she played it very well making things seem like we were fine between us while carrying on with the OM.

I if anything attached even more to her in the 4 weeks leading up to me fining out to the OM, as I was put in a position thinking her wanting to leave and being out of love with me was my shortcomings, I almost put her on a pedestal during the process.

I guess I am in Limbo, I know what I need to do but I need to find the strength and self worth to do it, which I will.

*Haven't talked to her in two days and I just get a text, "Why didn't your paycheck get deposited into our joint account today?"

April 22*

I have found in the last week my WW has really amped up the communication (texting), sending me updates from her day, photos of what she is doing, discussing her family. *Oddly she never asks how I am or discusses anything to do with reality (affair, separation) it’s like she is on some vacation having a fun time*.

(Responding to her texts with) very little, one word replies, always waiting several hours to reply, no replying with what I am doing, although I am posting some of it to IG and she is liking the posts.

Today marks 3 week since I found out about the affair. I thought once confronted 17 days ago there would be a 180 in the behavior but in reality *the giving 2 s*its about me has continued*.

*April 23*

It (the texts) is comforting, a glimpse into the past, sounds weird, but it is also very upsetting that it is just look at me messages and photos and not, "how are you, I’m so sorry."

*I think I do need to present my demands for reconciliation and set a time line, if they are not met by X date then it is over.* And even if met it still could be over.

I confronted her about it 20 days ago. During that conversation there was a couple I am so sorry’s. Then after later that evening there was a text to say I deserve better and she will work to fix this. But after that there has been nothing. Haven't seen her in person since, but if you go back several pages you will see some of our text exchanges. *It has gone from blame shifting to now just a steady stream of look at what I am doing and check ins.*


----------



## Help1107

I know it’s hard to take advice from a bunch of anonymous people on the internet, but most of us have been there done that, and if we can help one person to hurt less that’s what we are here for.
I didn’t want to believe all the signs the ILYBNILWY, we got married for all the wrong reasons, we just did because that’s what people expected. 🤮
I came onto this website and all of these wonderful people gave me great advice.


----------



## sokillme

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We do not have kids. And yes same boat long term relationship, have gown up with her. Any tips on how to go cold turkey on communication


So is it correct to assume this is the only women you have had a serious relationship with? Sounds like you have no basis to know better. Take it from all of us, she doesn't sound that great.


----------



## Beach123

sokillme said:


> So is it correct to assume this is the only women you have had a serious relationship with? Sounds like you have no basis to know better. Take it from all of us, she doesn't sound that great.


I agree! I’m not sure why you think it’s worth anything to consider one more minute with her!

how to go no contact (you asked)? You simply do not respond to anything she says or does. Block her - you don’t have kids together.

She isn’t remorseful at all! That everything you need to know. She isn’t putting in 200% effort to change herself and the relationship with you. She hasn’t tried 200% to repair the damage she caused. You know what you needed to know - she is a huge jerk.

there’s not one single reason to think of staying with her. File for D. The sooner you get her out of your life the sooner you can move forward and find a decent person to date.

she isn’t sorry she did this to you - she’s only sorry she got caught. There’s a huge difference. She’s never going to offer you any peace of mind.

respect yourself enough to divorce her.


----------



## Nucking Futs

You want a sign from her whether this is recoverable or not? File the divorce and have her served. No warning, just a process server showing up at her door and saying sign here. Make sure you have it set up so you're notified as soon as she's served. You don't respond to any form of communication from her at all for a few days. If she shows up at your door within a day crying so hard she's blowing snot bubbles begging for another chance and displaying a better attitude you can put reconciliation on the table. Anything short of that and you move on with your life. Without her.


----------



## Beach123

You should NEVER have to beg anyone. Your married to to love you in a decent way.

she has disrespected you so much. And she hasn’t done one thing to earn your trust back.

she wants the boyfriend AND the convenient doormat at home waiting for her - no matter how she treats him.

she is not a decent wife. And you shouldn’t settle for being plan B... or C


----------



## colingrant

> No warning, just a process server showing up at her door and saying sign here. Make sure you have it set up so you're notified as soon as she's served. You don't respond to any form of communication from her at all for a few days. If she shows up at your door within a day crying so hard she's blowing snot bubbles begging for another chance and displaying a better attitude you can put reconciliation on the table.


Agree 100% ......she can think on her time, not yours. Serving her starts YOUR timetable, and ends hers the moment the server says "sign here" please and hands her the package. At that very moment, her knees weaken, her heart stops and she has to sit as this wave of cold water flushes over her reminding her it's real now. 

Or, with her hands shaking, she signs receipt and immediately calls her AP telling him, it's over, he's divorcing me. This response implies, she's chosen to explore a relationship with him. What she doesn't know though (plus she doesn't know, what she doesn't know) is he may not want her full-time, like she thinks he does. Many WW make this mistake, thinking the AP wants them, when in fact it's the fun, excitement and most importantly, the side sex and sexting that 's really cherished. If this is the case, she's fkd, as she can possibly wind up with neither. 

Side pieces thousands of miles away are fun, until the side piece wants more and get closer. Then it's not too much fun for her AP. This is her problem, not yours. Her response over the last 2 weeks tells me she'll respond favorably to you, but you never know and to be honest it doesn't matter at this point. She played with fire and it's starting to get real hot for her. Turn up the heat.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

So I haven’t blocked yet but here is a texts from yesterday

afternoon WW “Did you want to talk/get together this weekend?If you want some more space I understand that too. I am just asking because we talked about it a week ago but please don’t feel any pressure”

didn’t Reply

nighttime WW “
Why do you take so long to reply to my texts? 
Are you doing to because you know it will annoy me? “


----------



## Blondilocks

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> So I haven’t blocked yet but here is a texts from yesterday
> 
> afternoon WW “Did you want to talk/get together this weekend?If you want some more space I understand that too. I am just asking because we talked about it a week ago but please don’t feel any pressure”
> 
> didn’t Reply
> 
> nighttime WW “
> Why do you take so long to reply to my texts?
> *Are you doing to because you know it will annoy me? “*


lol It's all about her - as if you don't have anything better to do than to pander to her interests. Crickets.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> So I haven’t blocked yet but here is a texts from yesterday
> 
> afternoon WW “Did you want to talk/get together this weekend?If you want some more space I understand that too. I am just asking because we talked about it a week ago but please don’t feel any pressure”
> 
> didn’t Reply
> 
> nighttime WW “
> Why do you take so long to reply to my texts?
> Are you doing to because you know it will annoy me? “


“If you want to talk to someone, roll over and talk to your boyfriend that you’re lying next to. I’m not your side piece. My lawyer’s number is xxx-xxx-xxxx. Don’t text me again.”


----------



## Openminded

Sounds like she has some serious narcissistic traits. It’s all about her. You’re just the Plan B she married. I hope you’re keeping those texts so you can remind yourself what you’re dealing with. 

People like that don’t change. I was married to one for decades. Cheating is something they feel entitled to do. Because … you know.


----------



## Kamstel2

Wow!! She is not seeing that she has done anything THAT wrong. Her only confusion is trying to figure out why YOU still have a problem with her having an affair!

i Understand that you’ve had a very long relationship with this woman, but you need to get out! Get the hell out of there! Run!

Do yourself a favor file and have her served ASAP and ghost her 100%!!!!

She’s not going to change, because she doesn’t see what she has done as being that bad.

Just make sure that you can always look yourself in the mirror.
Stay strong, and good luck


----------



## Marduk

Kamstel2 said:


> Wow!! She is not seeing that she has done anything THAT wrong. Her only confusion is trying to figure out why YOU still have a problem with her having an affair!
> 
> i Understand that you’ve had a very long relationship with this woman, but you need to get out! Get the hell out of there! Run!
> 
> Do yourself a favor file and have her served ASAP and ghost her 100%!!!!
> 
> She’s not going to change, because she doesn’t see what she has done as being that bad.
> 
> Just make sure that you can always look yourself in the mirror.
> Stay strong, and good luck


Imagine the following scenario: you’ve discovered that you’re so amazingly attractive, witty, and beautiful that the rules that everyone have told you are true just don’t apply to you.

You’ve suddenly discovered that you have a superpower, and you now believe that everyone has just been holding you back. You’re better than they are, and you see it now. You can in fact have it all, and you have proved it to yourself by having it all... and gotten away with it.

Imagine you discover that you’re suddenly bulletproof and you can do anything. It’s like that, only instead of being bulletproof you’re the top of the hierarchy.

So you live like that. Take what you want from who you want. Lying doesn’t count, because you’re only lying to those that always held you back from having it all. And when some of those upstart people get delusions of grandeur and think they’re equal to you, well... maybe if you just keep acting normally they’ll eventually see their place in the great scheme of things again. I mean, that’s what worked last time.

See, to them, you’re the ones that are delusional because you don’t see what is plain to them: you exist to be used by them, and should be happy they let you worship them, even only occasionally.


----------



## colingrant

Chicago....... I mentioned in an earlier post, following betrayal, sometimes the mind doesn't function as sharply or efficiently as it normally would, so listed below is a menu of responses for you to consider.

*



WW “Did you want to talk/get together this weekend?If you want some more space I understand that too. I am just asking because we talked about it a week ago but please don’t feel any pressure”

Click to expand...

Chicago's response options.*

No response. _*Think about your objective here and if no response is part of your strategy, as opposed to not responding out of spite. But, if that's how you feel, do so. Just think about it.* _
I need more space. (nothing more), Concerning space, what is it that you understand? Tell me.
Do you want to talk and if so, what about specifically. Your answer is important, because if you are uncertain or confused about our marriage or me, or it's to tell me you are continuing to see and will be joining your boyfriend, there is no reason for us to talk or meet.
IF you wish to tell me what it was about me and what I did that led you to open your body for another man, I have zero interest in furthering the immense pain you've already inflicted. So, no need to meet or talk.
If you want to be with him, but feel bad and tell me want to explain to me why you made the decision you have, and want to apologize, again, save it. There's no need to talk or get together.
If any of the above, or combination thereof, the only thing there is to talk about is how to proceed with mediation and asset separation so that we can save some money, or divorce.
I don't feel any pressure. Do you?
If meeting entails us talking to discuss possible reconciliation which are contingent upon me doing certain things.. or changing certain things.....save it. I have no interest in competing for my own wife, who I already won when we mutually decided to marry and become one, for better or for worse.
If you wish to meet so that you can express how sorry you are that you hurt me, you can save it. If that's how you feel, you can express this over the phone or email.
If it's to talk about any aspect of our marriage that allowed you to betray me, I have no interest at this time to meet or discuss.


If meeting entails wanting to reconcile and you have established a detailed timeline of the affair and a detailed plan to reclaim your love for me, then I will consider this. But I don't want to meet or talk if you are waiting to see how I will respond to you. I am only interested in what you have done, are doing and will do that will with 100% reveal re commitment, urgency and complete awareness of the degree of devastation you have caused, which I must say is possibly beyond repair and unrecoverable, just so you know. If you understand this, then I will meet with you when I am ready to do so.
If by chance we met today, what were you prepared to discuss/show etc. Anything of substance? I'm just curious, because it will tell me a lot.
*



WW - Why do you take so long to reply to my texts?

Click to expand...

*Varies...

Sometimes I'm irritated as hell and have to cool down to reply respectfully
Sometimes, I'm mad as hell and have to cool down to reply respectfully
Sometimes, I simply don't give a shxx, and not sure I even care or want to.
Sometimes, all of the above
Sometimes, I am busy and will get back to you later. We all have priorities, right? At one time, I responded instantly to you, but have found, I'm not your priority, so I'm less inclined to respond in a way that I would someone who is my priority.
You keep me in the dark for a year about something that changes my life, yet a response from me that may be an hour or few, is bothersome? Do ya see the hypocrisy here?
*



WW Are you doing to because you know it will annoy me?

Click to expand...

*Annoyance? You're annoyed from my delayed response times, which is anywhere from an hour to a day, yet, for a year you f'd another man, while married to me. I'm surprised (but maybe I shouldn't be) that you're voicing displeasure at something as trivial as text response time, *but have yet to inquire to any degree about how I'M doing, considering the the devastation you have imparted upon me and our marriage.* Say's a lot, with respect to where your heart, thoughts and concerns lie, whether intentional or not. I may not be surprised at all, but I am massively insulted.

Chicago.... these are passive suggestions /options, .. à la carte. You can choose, one, none or many in between.


----------



## Gabriel

Respond with this. " If you want to recommit to me with OM 100% gone from your life in any way, then we can talk about what is still possible for us. If not, then we should just hire lawyers and have communication go through them. Let me know which of those options you prefer."


----------



## Gabriel

If she doesn't completely go one way or the other, where she talks about your shortcomings, or tries to veer away from one of these two options....you just repeat, in text, "I need you to pick one of those options. A or B, which is it?"

Don't get into any conversation about how long your responses are taking, etc. Don't take any bait. Just stick to these words only. Any deflection on her part, just repeat the question.


----------



## Robert22205

She's hoping that you'll get over her affair with just the passage of time (and don't ask anymore questions about the affair). 

Whether you decide to R or D, in the interim, you could respond in writing that there is no point in meeting until she provides a timeline of her affair (subject to a polygraph) plus:

1) a plan on how to rebuild your relationship including the steps she will take to make you feel loved.
2) documents the ways she will make you feel safe in the relationship.
3) proof to you that she is NC, and does not miss her AP and that she thinks he is a POS. If she can’t make you feel that she has no feelings for the AP, then you might as well move on.
4) She needs to make you feel desired. She needs to initiate new intimacy with you in ways she did NOT have with him. She needs to be creative and also make you feel like your the only man she’d want to do these things with and that She’s comfortable sharing them with you and only you for the rest of her life.
5) Letters. Lots of them. Describing what you staying means to her. Describing how you must feel being betrayed so badly by the person you were meant to feel safe with. Why she loves you. Why she wants to be with you instead of the OM (have her compare you and the OM and why she chooses you). What she wants for your future. If she wants you in her life she’d do it.
6) She needs to flirt with YOU. As if she courting you for the first time. Since she destroyed the old marriage she needs to prove that she desires to be with you (and you alone).


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> So I haven’t blocked yet but here is a texts from yesterday
> 
> afternoon WW “Did you want to talk/get together this weekend?If you want some more space I understand that too. I am just asking because we talked about it a week ago but please don’t feel any pressure”
> 
> didn’t Reply
> 
> nighttime WW “
> Why do you take so long to reply to my texts?
> Are you doing to because you know it will annoy me? “


Why do you delay in responding to her?

What have you asked her to do for you?

What are you expecting from her besides what you asked her to do? 

Do you want her to stop contacting you?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

All of these responses will only bring drama. I say don’t respond. 

If you insist on responding, tell her not to text or call you anymore… Anything that needs to be discussed can be through email. Then block her number. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Openminded

As long as you remain in contact with her, the more difficult it is to detach. A lesson I learned much later than I should have.


----------



## MattMatt

@Chicagohusband2020 Hope that things are going well for you in dealing with your ex-wife to be?

Just a little aside, I like the way you spell words with the right amount of letters! (Like counselling, for example!) 😁


----------



## lovelygirl

3Xnocharm said:


> All of these responses will only bring drama. I say don’t respond.
> 
> If you insist on responding, tell her not to text or call you anymore… Anything that needs to be discussed can be through email. Then block her number.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly. 

The best strategy would be to go cold on her (that's actually the aim of 180) and like others said before, serve her the papers with just 2 words: "Sign this!". 

Responding to her messages is weakness from your part and at the same time it makes you sound like you're giving in to her devilish game. 

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


----------



## VladDracul

Gabriel said:


> If she doesn't completely go one way or the other, where she talks about your shortcomings, or tries to veer away from one of these two options....you just repeat, in text, "I need you to pick one of those options. A or B, which is it?"


My take is to tell her y'all can stay together if you create a joint checking account for paying joint living expenses such as utilities, house insurance, regular food and supplies, et cetera. Each will contribute your fair share and each keeps their balance of their income for their own purposes. She will go with you anywhere and whenever you like and she will put out (provide you with booty call) when ever you what it. She will not comment on her perceived shortcomings of you and can keep her friend and see him as long as she clears it with you first to ascertain it doesn't conflict with your plans. If and when she gives it up to him, she will tell you and will quickly clean up her equipment. You don't want the smell of another man on her if you decide you want a quickie. If she doesn't like your deal, she can hit the road. In the meantime, be shopping for your new and fresh replacement.


----------



## faithfulman

@Chicagohusband2020 - this difference between us and you is that we aren't attached to your wife in any way. That's why it is so easy for us to be like "ditch her!", "divorce her!", "Don't reply!"

The difference between you and your wife is that her moral code is entirely through the lens of what affects her, and she has already detached enough from you to **** other men.

But she has not detached from the comfort you provide, your salary, your taking her ******** (she only gives her best to the other guy), and the emotional support of having a husband who takes care of your emotions and lifestyle.

***

Having said that, probably the best plan of actions is what you have already begun: first, ghost her as much as possible. 

Cut her off from all the things you provide that her boyfriend doesn't/can't/won't provide, and see how she likes them apples!

Second, do serve her papers. If she won't come clean with the entire truth of whatever you ask, answer you as many times as you want to ask the same question, admit her complete and total wrongness, admit her lack of character, fight for you by giving you total transparency and honesty about whatever you ask, allow tracking/verification as much as you need to feel safe, initiate verified hostile no contact with the other man including no work contact, and remove all toxic influences from her life - well then bud then all you got is a used wife trying to save her own butt.

And by that I mean used by another man and then tossed back to you.

Your wife is immature and ill-equipped to deal with her own behavior. You basically have to obliterate her fantasy world.

And before all of that, the most important thing is: do you even want her back after what she has done to you, and given to someone else?

You have no kids.There are lots of better women out there.

Trust me bud, once you cut her loose, her trajectory is down not up. She is completely selfish, and no offense, but at least in her life affairs and understanding not ruining what she has got, she doesn't seem to be that swift.

Even if you "win her back", you may find that the knowledge of what she has done to you and your marriage will just fester over time.

At this point, this decision is all yours, and you are free to change your mind at any point.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

VladDracul said:


> My take is to tell her y'all can stay together if you create a joint checking account for paying joint living expenses such as utilities, house insurance, regular food and supplies, et cetera. Each will contribute your fair share and each keeps their balance of their income for their own purposes. She will go with you anywhere and whenever you like and she will put out (provide you with booty call) when ever you what it. She will not comment on her perceived shortcomings of you and can keep her friend and see him as long as she clears it with you first to ascertain it doesn't conflict with your plans. If and when she gives it up to him, she will tell you and will quickly clean up her equipment. You don't want the smell of another man on her if you decide you want a quickie. If she doesn't like your deal, she can hit the road. In the meantime, be shopping for your new and fresh replacement.


 That sounds like a cucked up rugsweep to me.


----------



## VladDracul

One man's "cucked up rugsweep" is another man's "keep her temporarily around for booty call". No different than having a piece on the side who's dates other guys and cheaper than paying a hooker. Just think of her as a live blow-up doll that pays her own freight.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

VladDracul said:


> Just think of her as a live blow-up doll that pays her own freight.


 But they're a dime a dozen. Why use the one that completely screwed you over and stabbed you in the back. Send her diseased ass packing.


----------



## lucy999

Huh. She still hasn't asked how _you _are doing in all of this.


----------



## Gabriel

3Xnocharm said:


> All of these responses will only bring drama. I say don’t respond.
> 
> If you insist on responding, tell her not to text or call you anymore… Anything that needs to be discussed can be through email. Then block her number.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This assumes there is 0% chance of reconciliation. I don't think that's where he is at. I guarantee you if she did all the right things, he'd take her back. For his own self respect, his conditions for that have to be strict and unflinching and draconian.


----------



## VladDracul

Rubix Cubed said:


> But they're a dime a dozen. Why use the one that completely screwed you over and stabbed you in the back. Send her diseased ass packing.


Don't take my facetious comment too serious. Few guys are stone cold enough to pull it off anyway.


----------



## Thompson

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> about 6 Weeks back I got the ILYBINILWY from my wife. I was shocked floored. We have been together for 16 years no kids. For the last three weeks I tried to make myself better,
> More appealing, did nice stuff. It didn’t really change my wife’s perspective or feelings at all. She claimed that i was too distant, didn’t like doing what she liked, laid a lot of things I did wrong on me. I read I worked on it. I acknowledged those things. I even research marriage counseling
> 
> She said she wanted to move out and have some space. I begged her that it was not the right thing to do for us.
> I really stood back and looked through the relationship from 2500 feet. And things were not adding up.
> 
> I did a little sniping and found she has been in an affair with a work college on mutual work trips for about a year. Ihave some textsdiscussing him between friends. No hard evidence.
> 
> I confronted her about OM, she denied ever Cheating on me or having an emotional affair
> 
> You can tell by her attitude after being confirmed she is sunken, riddled with guilt
> 
> I’m going to contact a lawyer tomorrow. I cannot live with the betrayal. Do the 180
> 
> any other support is appreciated


i found myself in a similar situation, i did all i could to get a hard evidence against her..it was very easy, i got a help from a friend who helped me hacked her phone and with all evidences with me she couldn't deny her escapades...


----------



## Marduk

Thompson said:


> i found myself in a similar situation, i did all i could to get a hard evidence against her..it was very easy, i got a help from a friend who helped me hacked her phone and with all evidences with me she couldn't deny her escapades...


For mine, it didn’t matter. She just got a glazed look in her eyes that was truly scary to see, and just denied everything. Even to her own family when her own uncle caught her on a date with the guy, and the other guy admitted to the affair.

When others described that glazed look, I immediately understood, because I got it, too - when we were separated and she couldn’t come up with a reason why. She’d just glaze over and pretend the question never happened. With some of our friends, she just got that look, stopped talking, and walked right out of their house as if the whole thing wasn’t happening at all. It was the last time she spoke to what used to be our best friends.

My point is, some never admit it, even with the hardest of hard evidence. If you’re looking for any validation or justice served from them apologizing or even admitting what they did... well, it might not happen at all. Some are like kids with their hand in the cookie jar, saying “it wasn’t me...”


----------



## Wolfman1968

Marduk said:


> For mine, it didn’t matter. She just got a glazed look in her eyes that was truly scary to see, and just denied everything. Even to her own family when her own uncle caught her on a date with the guy, and the other guy admitted to the affair.
> 
> When others described that glazed look, I immediately understood, because I got it, too - when we were separated and she couldn’t come up with a reason why. She’d just glaze over and pretend the question never happened. With some of our friends, she just got that look, stopped talking, and walked right out of their house as if the whole thing wasn’t happening at all. It was the last time she spoke to what used to be our best friends.
> 
> My point is, some never admit it, even with the hardest of hard evidence. If you’re looking for any validation or justice served from them apologizing or even admitting what they did... well, it might not happen at all. Some are like kids with their hand in the cookie jar, saying “it wasn’t me...”



Maybe she took a page from this. "Deny, Deny, Deny," from the comedy movie, "Guide for the Married Man".


----------



## faithfulman

@VladDracul - was obviously being facetious, but maybe he is onto something: If @Chicagohusband2020 feels he needs to reply to her, just offer that the other guy can support her cheating ass and deal with her ********, and he can drop in here and there to bang her and jet.

Of course she won't go for it, but it will be a message sent, even if the receiver is not receptive.


----------



## BluesPower

I really wish @Chicagohusband2020 could tell us what is going on in his head. He has left crypt one or two sentence replies to random messages. 

What is going on in our head, I mean you know that you WW is out ****ing another man and you have not filed for divorce as far as I know. 

Is there any reason that we should still follow you thread? 

I am just wondering...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

BluesPower said:


> I really wish @Chicagohusband2020 could tell us what is going on in his head. He has left crypt one or two sentence replies to random messages.
> 
> What is going on in our head, I mean you know that you WW is out ****ing another man and you have not filed for divorce as far as I know.
> 
> Is there any reason that we should still follow you thread?
> 
> I am just wondering...


He is looking for a specific direction towards reconciliation and winning her back

He’s still in love.

IMO, his posts aren’t cryptic.
He is in the fog we don’t really mention or approach the same way we do ”leave Her” and ” use the 180.”

Hopefully, he is reading here and other websites. Yes, there are success stories. but the many I have read end in divorce once separation is utilized And the other spouse is unrepentant like his wife.


----------



## VladDracul

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He’s still in love.


My observation, based on what I've seen in other guys, is he just wants to salvage his ego by having her come back into the fold,thus showing the "marriage" is more important than the other man. My son pulled some of the same **** and wound up with her divorcing him the second time. I tried to tell him too that the chick lost interest and when they do, it never comes back.


----------



## Marc878

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He is looking for a specific direction towards reconciliation and winning her back
> 
> He’s still in love.
> 
> IMO, his posts aren’t cryptic.
> He is in the fog we don’t really mention or approach the same way we do ”leave Her” and ” use the 180.”
> 
> Hopefully, he is reading here and other websites. Yes, there are success stories. but the many I have read end in divorce once separation is utilized And the other spouse is unrepentant like his wife.


Unfortunately some rug sweep, stay together until they get a repeat. I get it but OP is the one who has to save himself. No one else can.

If you don’t have the basics:
Remorseful spouse
No Contact with AP
transparency

The capability is there to go through it again. If it even stops.


----------



## Marc878

VladDracul said:


> My observation, based on what I've seen in other guys, is he just wants to salvage his ego by having her come back into the fold,thus showing the "marriage" is more important than the other man. My son pulled some of the same shyt and wound up with her divorcing him the second time. I tried to tell him too that the chick lost interest and when they do, it never comes back.


yep, some have to learn the hard way.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

VladDracul said:


> Don't take my facetious comment too serious. Few guys are stone cold enough to pull it off anyway.


I didn't think that sounded like you. I guess I've been reading too much fake news lately. It's got me off kilter.


----------



## VladDracul

Rebix, there ought to be a national law that grants a five year restraining order to both parties when they break up, separate, or divorce. Any kids can Uber back and forth. If the kids are too young and too far away, the parents can Fed Ex them to each other.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

VladDracul said:


> Rebix, there ought to be a national law that grants a five year restraining order to both parties when they break up, separate, or divorce. Any kids can Uber back and forth. If the kids are too young and too far away, the parents can Fed Ex them to each other.


I think that sounds good with the exception that in the case of infidelity the cheater should be launched into orbit for their 5 years and not have visitation until they have cleared quarantine upon their return. Oh, and have rocket and fuel expenses deducted from their portion of the settlement that they are only awarded 5% there of.


----------



## TDSC60

Chicago just does not want to be thought of as the guy who has a failed marriage. His wife is the "prize" he wants to win. Never mind that she is not worth the effort and will most likely continue the affair.


----------



## MattMatt

Please stop with the off topic threadjacks.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, some of them useful, some of them funny but overall I appreciate everyone's feedback and input. 

We have talked a couple times in the last three days. Working on some sort of reconciliation, there is remorse there and a recognition that while she may not have been happy the affair was her choice and a poor one

She is working with a therapist on what caused her to turn to an affair as opposed to other options and how she can communicate her needs and feelings better in the future, But unfortunately, she at the current time finds my requests for Reconciliation (access to phone, detailed timelines of affair) too controlling. She has communicated that she felt very controlled during our marriage and these requests are further reflection of me being controlling. SO I am trying to work out a way that I can get the details I need to be able to trust without it feeling controller (i fully realize this could be an excuse as she is still knee deep in her emotional affair)


----------



## Gabriel

Well, none of us know how legitimate her claim is that you have been controlling. But SHE stepped out on the marriage. Not you. She really doesn't deserve privacy. At least not until she can be trusted. 

*WAIT = she is still knee deep in her emotional affair????*
She isn't even willing to stop communicating with her Other Man? If she can't give you that #1 basic requirement to begin reconciliation discussions, there is no reconciliation. Have you demanded no contact with him? Has she NOT complied...or maybe she has complied but she admitted feelings? Those are different things. Can you clarify that?

Timeline of the affair = that is NOT controlling. That is what you need to make a decision on your marriage.


----------



## ABHale

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We do not have kids. And yes same boat long term relationship, have gown up with her. Any tips on how to go cold turkey on communication


Block her on everything and stick to it. It won’t be easy.


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for your thoughts, some of them useful, some of them funny but overall I appreciate everyone's feedback and input.
> 
> We have talked a couple times in the last three days. Working on some sort of reconciliation, there is remorse there and a recognition that while she may not have been happy the affair was her choice and a poor one.
> 
> *Reconciliation basics:
> Remorseful spouse not sorry or regretful she got caught
> zero contact with AP
> wayward willing to pull the heavy load in R
> Full transparency
> Full truth*
> 
> She is working with a therapist on what caused her to turn to an affair as opposed to other options and how she can communicate her needs and feelings better in the future, But unfortunately, she at the current time finds my requests for Reconciliation (access to phone, detailed timelines of affair) too controlling. She has communicated that she felt very controlled during our marriage and these requests are further reflection of me being controlling. SO I am trying to work out a way that I can get the details I need to be able to trust without it feeling controller (i fully realize this could be an excuse as she is still knee deep in her emotional affair)


R takes 2-5 years with no guarantee. How many of the basics do you have?
Repeats or continuations happen regularly Especially if you allow a rugsweep.
Excuses or blaming you for the affair isa big red flag.


----------



## Blondilocks

You poor sap. She is nowhere near being a candidate for reconciliation. She won't be until you stop being her back-up plan. Seriously, if you have any chance AT ALL you have got to be ready to lose the marriage. Go full 180 with her. She may not value you or the marriage; but, at least show her that you value yourself.


----------



## Buffer

Controlling? No, she is manipulating you, rug sweeping the R. She is not really remorseful. How can you get into recovery when she could be texting about meeting up for a coffee etc. If she doesn’t understand her word is nothing, there is no trust, then there is no future: D is the only option.
One day at a time.
Buffer


----------



## ABHale

I will give her this, she is good at the manipulation game.

She has you giving her everything she wants with out giving you anything in return.

No time line.

No access to electronics.

Do you even know who it was with?

Are they still working together?

Has she switched jobs or in the process of doing so?

She is giving you nothing to prove she is talking what she has do e seriously.

I believe you are going down the same as others that will simply forgive and move on. The day will come after kids are here that she will do it again. That is if she isn’t having sex with the guy at the present.


----------



## Prodigal

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> We have talked a couple times in the last three days. Working on some sort of reconciliation, there is remorse there and a recognition that while she may not have been happy the affair was her choice and a poor one
> 
> ... she at the current time finds my requests for Reconciliation (access to phone, detailed timelines of affair) too controlling. She has communicated that she felt very controlled during our marriage and these requests are further reflection of me being controlling. SO I am trying to work out a way that I can get the details I need to be able to trust without it feeling controller (i fully realize this could be an excuse as she is still knee deep in her emotional affair)


Just when I thought I'd read everything there is to read on TAM ... This is BEYOND pathetic. 

No, she doesn't want to "reconcile." She wants you as her Plan B. But it's evident you're so desperate to have her back, you'll swallow her line of crap.


----------



## faithfulman

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for your thoughts, some of them useful, some of them funny but overall I appreciate everyone's feedback and input.
> 
> We have talked a couple times in the last three days. Working on some sort of reconciliation, there is remorse there and a recognition that while she may not have been happy the affair was her choice and a poor one


@Chicagohusband2020 - YOU are working on reconciliation.

Your wife is WORKING ON YOU.

Just the phrasing of "while she may not have been happy the affair was her choice and a poor one" is such a weasel-worded way of trying to make you carry some of the blame that you need to just see it for what it is: She doesn't take true responsibility.

She doesn't feel remorse. Remorse is a very specific emotion/feeling/behavior where the one feeling remorse does not assign responsibility for their actions to anyone/thing but themselves, and then does everything they can do to make amends, repent, and avoid such behavior in the future.

Honestly, you know true remorse not what your wife is feeling.




Chicagohusband2020 said:


> She is working with a therapist on what caused her to turn to an affair as opposed to other options and how she can communicate her needs and feelings better in the future, But unfortunately, she at the current time finds my requests for Reconciliation (access to phone, detailed timelines of affair) too controlling.


Out of anybody who posts here, I am the one who probably trust therapists the least.

You have to understand what you have here: Your wife is declining to own up or take the steps to make you secure after she ****ed another man, because that is "controlling".

That's ********, it isn't controlling.
It's to protect her lies because she doesn't want to you to know what she really has done, and I am 90% sure continues to do.



Chicagohusband2020 said:


> She has communicated that she felt very controlled during our marriage and these requests are further reflection of me being controlling. SO I am trying to work out a way that I can get the details I need to be able to trust without it feeling controller (i fully realize this could be an excuse as she is still knee deep in her emotional affair)


So now you are the one who has the assignment of not being "too controlling" while your wife refuses transparency and dodges accountability, while shifting the blame of her actions to "the marriage", which by the way, means you are to blame for her cheating.

*Therapists:*

Your wife is lying to and bringing her warped point of view to her therapist
Her therapist is very likely eating that **** up, nodding his/her head in agreement, and reinforcing your wife's ********: "No, you get to have your privacy, that is controlling, he doesn't need to know that"
You have to understand the business model of therapists: They need a client to come back. Telling their client that they are full of **** liars and need to go all out with uncomfortable actions in order to make things right is not a recipe for repeat clients. Maybe a court-ordered therapist will force accountability. But not the average consumer therapist.
Therapists are not smarter, better morally grounded, and especially do not understand the roots of and the proper way to deal with infidelity better than anyone else.
In my experience, therapists lean away from accountability, have a looser moral framework than average, and tend to be more full of **** than your Average Joe.
Please don't go to her therapist and let the therapist cook up and serve you some package of ******** where she/he tells you "why your wife cheated". She cheated because she wanted to and didn't care enough about you or your marriage not to.

***

I guess what I am saying is: YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

You are letting your wife run the show. You are trying to reconcile, and she is trying to make herself the victim, who just "made a bad choice". She is succeeding in running the show, rugsweeping, and putting you in check.

If you don't man up and put your foot down as we have been advising you for pages and pages, what you are going to have is a wife who got to **** another guy because "you are too controlling".

Just think about the twisted logic that underpins that.

Here is the honest truth: At this point, you have to be controlling. She obviously needs to be controlled if you want her in your life.

I'll go further: She needs to be in a position where she feels desperate because you are done with her, and WELCOMES YOUR CONTROL.

But right now, she is the one in control, who is controlling this "reconciliation" process. One of you is going to be controlling this ride. Who should it be? The lying cheater?

You really need to read around a lot more. See who walks out of these situations with a result they can stomach for the rest of their lives, and who gets enjoy the taste of **** sandwich for years on end, and the actions that lead to one direction or another...

Good luck brother.


----------



## mickybill

What some people call "controlling" other people call "I don't want my wife to have a boyfriend"
I just don't think your WW cares anymore. After the Covid goes away you should look at options.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

No transparency, no reconciliation. Period. She is playing you big time, sir. You are not being controlling by making these demands. She is being manipulative, where she should be carrying the load instead. She isn’t remorseful, she is sorry she got caught. Two VERY different animals! 

You should file. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Openminded

All too predictable, unfortunately.


----------



## oldtruck

controlling is what all WW's claim when their BH make NC, transparent, timeline, block
the OM, write a NC letter, answer all questions about the affair, give up all passwords
and social accounts, access to email, texts, phone, a requirement to recover the 
marriage.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Openminded said:


> All too predictable, unfortunately.


Yeah, but it's his life to **** up. Some folks only learn from their own experience. It's a tough way to learn, especially a painful lesson like the one he's signing up for, but it's his call.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Gabriel said:


> Well, none of us know how legitimate her claim is that you have been controlling. But SHE stepped out on the marriage. Not you. She really doesn't deserve privacy. At least not until she can be trusted.
> 
> *WAIT = she is still knee deep in her emotional affair????*
> She isn't even willing to stop communicating with her Other Man? If she can't give you that #1 basic requirement to begin reconciliation discussions, there is no reconciliation. Have you demanded no contact with him? Has she NOT complied...or maybe she has complied but she admitted feelings? Those are different things. Can you clarify that?
> 
> Timeline of the affair = that is NOT controlling. That is what you need to make a decision on your marriage.


Yes I have demanded No contact and she has said she is not in communication with the OM. But, hard to trust her word obviously


----------



## Lostinthought61

Chicago,

you will obviously do what you want but i have to say that your last statement is reconciliation is ultimately left for her to control not you. Once again you leave her holding the cards because you continue fail in having her served showing her you mean business that you are willing to dissolve the marriage if she dose not comply...i'm sorry but this is a staring contest in which you blinked and lost.


----------



## mickybill

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Yes I have demanded No contact and she has said she is not in communication with the OM. But, hard to trust her word obviously


Does she even try to "prove it"? I doubt it as that would be controlling...


----------



## OutofRetirement

Did she admit to physical cheating? Regardless, do you still believe that? Does it matter to you?

No, there is not remorse. If there were remorse, she would have given you the truth, even if that's verbally. She won't even tell you what really happened. But other man knows. Maybe you should call him and beg for the truth there.

I don't see anything terrible about what you are doing. You don't have kids, so you really are only hurting yourself. It won't kill you. In the end, it will be a learning experience.

People claim that cheaters are predictable. I am one of them. But really it's not just cheating that is predictable. It's wrongdoing. Cheating is a subset of wrongdoing. And if you think about wrongdoers instead of cheaters it's sometimes easier to understand, because all people know wrongdoers through their whole lives and may only know a few cheaters. But the basic behaviors are the same. And the behaviors really is basic human nature. People automatically react that way, or they learn it so very, very young, even as toddlers. It requires learning from your parents or teachers or close authority person to teach you morals and ethics. And it's the tougher choice to make.

The basic behaviors is when doing something wrong, be careful not to get caught, hide the wrongdoing. If caught, automatically deny. A lot of moral people do this too, but then quickly reverse themselves and admit it. But it's very common for friends you've met, students, co-workers, siblings, when caught denied. Then when forced to admit, blame somebody or something else.

I was told as a young child, don't throw balls inside the house. Me and my brothers loved to play sports, so throwing a baseball around or a football around, even if only a nerf ball, was something irrestible for us. Our parents would tell us not to do it, something is going to get broken. And we would stop temporarily. But then start up again, figuring, "Let's be careful. Make sure you don't throw anything near the lamps. Or the frames on the coffee table. Or the frames on the wall. Nearly impossible to throw a ball that was not near anything. And if the ball hits these things, almost definitely they will break, at least get some kind of visible crack in them. But, here we are, wanting to have our fun, so we agree "we will be careful" and "we won't do it in front of mom or dad." Equate to any wrongdoer = Selfishly break the rule, cheat against the rules, and hide it. Then, what eventually happens? Yes, the ball hits a lamp, lamp goes down, it is cracked and has a chip or two. So what do we do then? Get some glue and put the chip back in if we can, turn the lamp so you can't see the crack. Sometimes the parents didn't notice it for a good long while. So in the meantime, it was like, if not caught, if not held to consequence, keep doing it. When parents aren't around, even though we broke the lamp and got away with it, should we stop and be thankful we didn't get caught? No, we enjoyed throwing the ball, and we are selfish. We are not bad kids, but we want fun over common sense rules in the house.

Eventually, something breaks, parents discover it. They ask "Who did it?" Each of us, "not me, not me, not me." The lamp has a blue tint where the crack was. It's the same color as Joe's blue nerf ball. Parents blame Joe. What does Joe do? "No, it was my ball, but Mike was the one who threw it." Mke says, it's not my fault, you (the parents) never let us have fun. You are controlling." At some point, there is a consequence. Balls taken away. Have to do extra chores to "pay" for the value of the lamp. Or take it out of our allowance, or part-time jobs. Lecture of right from wrong, lying when caught. 

We were taught to make amends. When doing something wrong, admit to it. Tell the truth. And do what is reasonable to make things right.

Your wife is not doing that. Not at all. She is just holding onto you as Plan B. Maybe Plan A is gone forever. It is possible at some point in the future you may become Plan A for her. But for now, just because Plan A is not availble, doesn't mean you are Plan A instead. You are Plan B because she treats you like you are not essential to her.

Now, you could say, "well, she could say the same to me. If I draw the line on wanting truth and and transparency, and I am willing to leave her if she won't do that, then she is not essential to me." But the diffference is, she is the one who cheated, she is the one who lied, she is the one you had to interrogate to get any truth at all, and she is still not following the "rules" of a marriage - tell the truth. For whatever faults you had, you were not trying to hide things from her. In essence, she still is throwing the ball around the house.

It is all good, though. You will get through this. It's a matter of time. I have known and mostly read so many guys like you that I couldn't even think how many. Maybe 100. Probably more. Every single one, though, reaches the point where "enough is enough." And demands what is needed - end the affair, no contact, tell the truth, and commit to the marriage. Do the reasonable things to show the aggrieved spouse that it was done. You may never know if you got the whole truth, but there will be an attitude that she wants help you. She is not doing that now.

As far as your wife's resentful towards your terrible-ness as a husband. Those are true feelings, but she didn't tell you about them for you to understand. No doubt you have many faults that you could improve. No doubt you could have been more attentive to her, more romantic, expressed how much you love her, show her in words, the romantic and sexual things, not just providing for her or supporting her like a brother or a roommate might. And if she had come to you before she cheated, you would be the one backpedalling a bit to fix it for her. Like you did already once when she ILYBINILWY'd. But when there is cheating, the cheating almost always have to be taken care of first. It's like you had been going around the house, carelessly dropping lit matches, causing little fires. She never told you she was upset with you, she figures you should have known, but you were clueless or lazy, from her point of view. But she didn't confront you and tell you how much it bothers her. What she did instead was to get a few red five-gallon containers full of gasoline, douse most of the house, and then set it on fire. Yeah, your fires were not good, bad, but really they were relatively easy to put them out. Her fire is the whole house, and now that's where you have to spend the time to fix first, then go back and put out the small fires you set.

Another analogy woud be you putting tiny pin-prick holes in a wooden rowboat, and then her getting a saw and cutting a five-foot hole in the middle of the boat. The pin holes you made would have been the priority, until she instead of telling you to fix the pin holes, she put a huge gaping hole with water gushing in. Any reconciliation has to start with the big gaping wound first. She is really focused on the pin holes, telling you that she wouldn't have cut that huge hole there if you hadn't done those little ones first.

I would write more, but I think I'll save some for your next chapter and all the problems you'll encounter next.


----------



## OutofRetirement

As OpenMinded posted, cheating wives telling betrayed husbands "you are controlling" happens so often it has become a cliche.

Really, asking for telling the whole truth is "controlling"? 

Asking for proof truly would be "controlling" if she had always been honest and you have no reason for doubts, but given that she lied to you for better part of a year, asking for proof of some type seems very reasonable to me. She's told more lies than truth about your marriage during the past year. Think about that.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> Did she admit to physical cheating? Regardless, do you still believe that? Does it matter to you?
> 
> No, there is not remorse. If there were remorse, she would have given you the truth, even if that's verbally. She won't even tell you what really happened. But other man knows. Maybe you should call him and beg for the truth there.
> 
> I don't see anything terrible about what you are doing. You don't have kids, so you really are only hurting yourself. It won't kill you. In the end, it will be a learning experience.
> 
> People claim that cheaters are predictable. I am one of them. But really it's not just cheating that is predictable. It's wrongdoing. Cheating is a subset of wrongdoing. And if you think about wrongdoers instead of cheaters it's sometimes easier to understand, because all people know wrongdoers through their whole lives and may only know a few cheaters. But the basic behaviors are the same. And the behaviors really is basic human nature. People automatically react that way, or they learn it so very, very young, even as toddlers. It requires learning from your parents or teachers or close authority person to teach you morals and ethics. And it's the tougher choice to make.
> 
> The basic behaviors is when doing something wrong, be careful not to get caught, hide the wrongdoing. If caught, automatically deny. A lot of moral people do this too, but then quickly reverse themselves and admit it. But it's very common for friends you've met, students, co-workers, siblings, when caught denied. Then when forced to admit, blame somebody or something else.
> 
> I was told as a young child, don't throw balls inside the house. Me and my brothers loved to play sports, so throwing a baseball around or a football around, even if only a nerf ball, was something irrestible for us. Our parents would tell us not to do it, something is going to get broken. And we would stop temporarily. But then start up again, figuring, "Let's be careful. Make sure you don't throw anything near the lamps. Or the frames on the coffee table. Or the frames on the wall. Nearly impossible to throw a ball that was not near anything. And if the ball hits these things, almost definitely they will break, at least get some kind of visible crack in them. But, here we are, wanting to have our fun, so we agree "we will be careful" and "we won't do it in front of mom or dad." Equate to any wrongdoer = Selfishly break the rule, cheat against the rules, and hide it. Then, what eventually happens? Yes, the ball hits a lamp, lamp goes down, it is cracked and has a chip or two. So what do we do then? Get some glue and put the chip back in if we can, turn the lamp so you can't see the crack. Sometimes the parents didn't notice it for a good long while. So in the meantime, it was like, if not caught, if not held to consequence, keep doing it. When parents aren't around, even though we broke the lamp and got away with it, should we stop and be thankful we didn't get caught? No, we enjoyed throwing the ball, and we are selfish. We are not bad kids, but we want fun over common sense rules in the house.
> 
> Eventually, something breaks, parents discover it. They ask "Who did it?" Each of us, "not me, not me, not me." The lamp has a blue tint where the crack was. It's the same color as Joe's blue nerf ball. Parents blame Joe. What does Joe do? "No, it was my ball, but Mike was the one who threw it." Mke says, it's not my fault, you (the parents) never let us have fun. You are controlling." At some point, there is a consequence. Balls taken away. Have to do extra chores to "pay" for the value of the lamp. Or take it out of our allowance, or part-time jobs. Lecture of right from wrong, lying when caught.
> 
> We were taught to make amends. When doing something wrong, admit to it. Tell the truth. And do what is reasonable to make things right.
> 
> Your wife is not doing that. Not at all. She is just holding onto you as Plan B. Maybe Plan A is gone forever. It is possible at some point in the future you may become Plan A for her. But for now, just because Plan A is not availble, doesn't mean you are Plan A instead. You are Plan B because she treats you like you are not essential to her.
> 
> Now, you could say, "well, she could say the same to me. If I draw the line on wanting truth and and transparency, and I am willing to leave her if she won't do that, then she is not essential to me." But the diffference is, she is the one who cheated, she is the one who lied, she is the one you had to interrogate to get any truth at all, and she is still not following the "rules" of a marriage - tell the truth. For whatever faults you had, you were not trying to hide things from her. In essence, she still is throwing the ball around the house.
> 
> It is all good, though. You will get through this. It's a matter of time. I have known and mostly read so many guys like you that I couldn't even think how many. Maybe 100. Probably more. Every single one, though, reaches the point where "enough is enough." And demands what is needed - end the affair, no contact, tell the truth, and commit to the marriage. Do the reasonable things to show the aggrieved spouse that it was done. You may never know if you got the whole truth, but there will be an attitude that she wants help you. She is not doing that now.
> 
> As far as your wife's resentful towards your terrible-ness as a husband. Those are true feelings, but she didn't tell you about them for you to understand. No doubt you have many faults that you could improve. No doubt you could have been more attentive to her, more romantic, expressed how much you love her, show her in words, the romantic and sexual things, not just providing for her or supporting her like a brother or a roommate might. And if she had come to you before she cheated, you would be the one backpedalling a bit to fix it for her. Like you did already once when she ILYBINILWY'd. But when there is cheating, the cheating almost always have to be taken care of first. It's like you had been going around the house, carelessly dropping lit matches, causing little fires. She never told you she was upset with you, she figures you should have known, but you were clueless or lazy, from her point of view. But she didn't confront you and tell you how much it bothers her. What she did instead was to get a few red five-gallon containers full of gasoline, douse most of the house, and then set it on fire. Yeah, your fires were not good, bad, but really they were relatively easy to put them out. Her fire is the whole house, and now that's where you have to spend the time to fix first, then go back and put out the small fires you set.
> 
> Another analogy woud be you putting tiny pin-prick holes in a wooden rowboat, and then her getting a saw and cutting a five-foot hole in the middle of the boat. The pin holes you made would have been the priority, until she instead of telling you to fix the pin holes, she put a huge gaping hole with water gushing in. Any reconciliation has to start with the big gaping wound first. She is really focused on the pin holes, telling you that she wouldn't have cut that huge hole there if you hadn't done those little ones first.
> 
> I would write more, but I think I'll save some for your next chapter and all the problems you'll encounter next.


Great post and thanks very much for it, very helpful. Not she has animatedly denies it was every physical. I'm not sure it does matter at this point but it would be another punch to the gut for sure. In-fact she only admits that the deeply involved emotional + sext affair began in Late February Early March (A month or so before I found out), even though they met and began liking each other Instagram post in Spring of 2019. That's why a timeline is so important to me. No many women tell men they love them after a month of sexting and what not


----------



## faithfulman

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Great post and thanks very much for it, very helpful. Not she has animatedly denies it was every physical. I'm not sure it does matter at this point but it would be another punch to the gut for sure. In-fact she only admits that the deeply involved emotional + sext affair began in Late February Early March (A month or so before I found out), even though they met and began liking each other Instagram post in Spring of 2019. That's why a timeline is so important to me. No many women tell men they love them after a month of sexting and what not


Every cheater denies sex and sexual activity "animatedly".

That is simply what cheaters do. They look you dead in the eye, and lie, using any tactic they can to convince you of that lie.

They also try to slice and dice what "physical" or "sexual" means.

If I recall correctly, your wife shared sexual/nude videos, pictures and conversation, correct?

Well that's sexual.

And she met him in person?

Well, that's physical.

And she met him in person - Part 2?

Well, it went physical and sexual.

Don't accept nonsense that cannot be true. Just don't.

Be "controlling". Make her prove it.


----------



## Robert22205

1 - If she was so unhappy with you as her husband, WHY doesn't she divorce you?
Perhaps it's because the OM doesn't want to marry her.

2 - Be prepared for her to quote her therapist in a way that justifies her behavior both before and after D day. Don't believe her. Why? because experience shows that cheaters lie about what their therapist really said.

3 - I'm sorry but accusing you of being "controlling" is just a cheater's way of saying they want to live like a single person.

btw: if you truly controlled her behavior, how did she pull off her affair for so long?

4 - Until she can accept responsibility for her decision to cheat (without at the same time mentioning her being unhappy with her marriage), she is not a candidate to reconcile. Why? because she's still placing some of the blame for her infidelity on you. Therefore, she's high risk to justify cheating again.

5 - After all you've said and discussed with her about what you need to reconcile, IMO you've reached a stage where she'll only take you serious when you serve her with divorce papers. Serve her at work (without warning) - and do not talk with her about it afterward. Why? because you already said what you need - and she refused. If she wants a chance to reconcile (after being served) she needs to prove it (by action not words) by doing what's on your list.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

faithfulman said:


> Every cheater denies sex and sexual activity "animatedly".
> 
> That is simply what cheaters do. They look you dead in the eye, and lie, using any tactic they can to convince you of that lie.
> 
> They also try to slice and dice what "physical" or "sexual" means.
> 
> If I recall correctly, your wife shared sexual/nude videos, pictures and conversation, correct?
> 
> Well that's sexual.
> 
> And she met him in person?
> 
> Well, that's physical.
> 
> And she met him in person - Part 2?
> 
> Well, it went physical and sexual.
> 
> Don't accept nonsense that cannot be true. Just don't.
> 
> Be "controlling". Make her prove it.


I agree sexting videos is as close to physical as you can get, telling another man you love him while tell me you love me is worse than sex. And yes, she met him in person 4 work trips, but claims in 2019 and early 2020 it was just "flirting". But i do have a number of red flags from the work trips, like ghosting for an evening calling me the next morning. 

She did also admit that they went out on "group" dinners while on work trips. But never alone. But when she was on these trips she would also say she was gong for dinner with coworkers that I knew from her company. (The other MAN works for a different company on a joint project). But her omission of never telling me on the trips that they where doing group dinner and being very specific bout going out with coworkers I knew leads me to believe they did go on "dates"


----------



## Sparta

Let me understand this you “She tells you that you are too controlling!” and that you need modify your demands so they don’t come off as too controlling. Right.! So let’s get this straight she cheats on you actually she still cheating on you.! By the way. you give her demands for reconcile and she tells you her demands so You can be her back up plan. and now the narrative switches back to her making demands for you guys to reconcile. do you see the insanity of this.

Dude she’s playing games be done with this 
Woman. She doesn’t have a goodwill toward you. Let her go to be with her new boyfriend. Seems like that’s what she really wants because if she really wanted to be with you she wouldn’t of said any of that stuff and she’d be doing whatever she could be to fix what she has broken. seems like that’s what she really wants because if she really wanted to be with you, she wouldn’t have made any of those wayward demands. she’d be doing whatever she could be to fix what she has broken.!


----------



## faithfulman

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I agree sexting videos is as close to physical as you can get, telling another man you love him while tell me you love me is worse than sex. And yes, she met him in person 4 work trips, but claims in 2019 and early 2020 it was just "flirting". *But i do have a number of red flags from the work trips*, like ghosting for an evening calling me the next morning.


Dude, you don't have "red flags", you have about as close to proof without walking in on them doing the nasty.

Your wife met the man in person who she sent sexual visual material to, in a situation where they could do anything they wanted to.

By the way, just let her know that her naked body doing whatever she did will be (in)famous on the internet at some point.



Chicagohusband2020 said:


> She did also admit that they went out on "group" dinners while on work trips. But never alone. But when she was on these trips she would also say she was gong for dinner with coworkers that I knew from her company. (The other MAN works for a different company on a joint project). But her omission of never telling me on the trips that they where doing group dinner and being very specific bout going out with coworkers I knew leads me to believe they did go on "dates"


What leads me to believe that they went on dates is that makes sense and the other stories do not.

Cheater lie in all kinds of ways. They went to dinner in a group, but when she was alone with him it was at the bar and in his or her room.

See? That's not a "date". She told the truth!


----------



## Sparta

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I agree sexting videos is as close to physical as you can get, telling another man you love him while tell me you love me is worse than sex. And yes, she met him in person 4 work trips, but claims in 2019 and early 2020 it was just "flirting". But i do have a number of red flags from the work trips, like ghosting for an evening calling me the next morning.
> 
> She did also admit that they went out on "group" dinners while on work trips. But never alone. But when she was on these trips she would also say she was gong for dinner with coworkers that I knew from her company. (The other MAN works for a different company on a joint project). But her omission of never telling me on the trips that they where doing group dinner and being very specific bout going out with coworkers I knew leads me to believe they did go on "dates"


So she went out on dinner dates with him they were away together on work trips and somehow in your mind there’s a possibility they did not have sex.? I mean wow how do you even come up with that. OP people have sex specially people that claim they love each other right.?! to even think that they just kissed and messed around how does that even happen. I guess if people want to live in that kind of delusion that’s completely non-logical about human behavior. Anytime people have minimal time they’re going to have sex. She was away on trips dude.! that is a guaranteed that she had sex.


----------



## Openminded

When you reconcile with a cheater you have to accept it’s highly unlikely you’ll ever know the complete truth because it doesn’t benefit the cheater to tell you. Sure, there may be a cheater here and there that owns up to what they did, in detail, but they are very few and far between.

That means you will have to decide what are the things you can live with never knowing. In my case, the lies went on for decades. My only regret is that I didn’t get out sooner. I can’t get those years back.

Having been through it, I want you to know that reconciliation is tough. Very tough. The only easy part of it is the decision to try. Betrayal is just not ever easy to get beyond. Trust is destroyed and often doesn’t come back. Even if it does, you will never again trust the way you did before you had your heart ripped out (and you shouldn’t). It takes years, at best, to create a new marriage (the old one is gone) and even then it sometimes just doesn’t work.

Be prepared.


----------



## Openminded

And, yes, they absolutely had sex. No doubt about it so don’t allow her to spin it.

Believe she did because it’s true.


----------



## Marc878

Betrayed spouse syndrome. Want to believe badly so you do. Not uncommon.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Openminded said:


> And, yes, they absolutely had sex. No doubt about it so don’t allow her to spin it.
> 
> Believe she did because it’s true.


Yep absolutely. 

She doesn’t want your marriage. She has given the ILYBNILWY speech. She has told you how much you fail as a husband and expressed her unhappiness. She screwed another man and tells him that she loves him. Seems pretty obvious when it’s spelled out. She is faking that she wants reconciliation because she doesn’t want to be the bad guy in other peoples eyes. 

I have a close friend who was very unhappy in her marriage and wanted a divorce. However she was completely conflict avoidant and cowardly and would never open her mouth and say she wanted a divorce. She had started texting various men and would get upset with her husband for getting mad about it. Eventually she started sleeping with someone she and her husband both knew and she got caught when one of her daughters saw a text from him on her phone. He kicked her out and they started MC within a few weeks. Here’s the thing...she didn’t want the marriage. I know this because I went through all of this with her. (I tried steering the right direction) She was faking working on it. She started sleeping with yet another man while doing MC with her husband. I never understood why she went about things in this way, it was disgusting. (Her H was an ass, but that doesn’t make all this ok) She never could explain WHY to me but always seemed to feel justified because her H was such a jerk. 

I’m sharing this to show you how this happens in real life. I can see this same thing happening with your wife. Do yourself a favor and skip the fake R. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for your thoughts, some of them useful, some of them funny but overall I appreciate everyone's feedback and input.
> 
> We have talked a couple times in the last three days. Working on some sort of reconciliation, there is remorse there and a recognition that while she may not have been happy the affair was her choice and a poor one
> 
> She is working with a therapist on what caused her to turn to an affair as opposed to other options and how she can communicate her needs and feelings better in the future, But unfortunately, she at the current time finds my requests for Reconciliation (access to phone, detailed timelines of affair) too controlling. She has communicated that she felt very controlled during our marriage and these requests are further reflection of me being controlling. SO I am trying to work out a way that I can get the details I need to be able to trust without it feeling controller (i fully realize this could be an excuse as she is still knee deep in her emotional affair)


Listen, I don’t know you and you don’t know me. I’m just a stupid voice on the internet.
But we’ve seen these things come and to and play out over and over again.
And I’m telling you this is not going to work out. The only reconciliations I’ve ever seen work long term have included total remorse and total transparency from the cheating spouse. You’re getting wishy washy remorse and no transparency.
You can tell she doesn’t actually regret it. You can tell she blames you for this. And you can tell she doesn’t want you to be able to hold her accountable or find any sense of safety after betraying you. 
It’s over, man. Let it be over before you have to suffer an even more painful false reconciliation. 
if she won’t let you see her phone, it’s because the affair isn’t over, man. Or there’s even more guys to find there.


----------



## PieceOfSky

She is dishonest, manipulative, and has an active disrespect for your wants and needs. That’s who you are married to.

Do you want to spend years chained to this weight, struggling to smuggle some bit of enjoyment from this life during the good “moments” you might have between you, when she’s on her best behavior.

Or do you want to take your chances, betting on yourself, purposefully improving yourself and your circumstances, free from the drag of her continual drama - and maybe someday, finding someone you can respect and trust, and grow with and enjoy life daily with? Someone you can count on to be direct and not deceitful.

There are no guarantees. It’s your life, and you get to choose. Just don’t forget that by choosing her, if that is the route you go, you are giving up your chance of finding someone better for you.


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## colingrant

It's not worth wasting any time on the physical aspect. It's a done deal. The problem with this isn't that she did it (she did with 95% certainty), it's that she's adamant saying it didn't happen. You'll have to poly. Figuring out to reconcile and then actually doing it is too hard already. This discussion needs to get the hell out of the way, fast. so that you can move on, with or without her. 

Regardless, one of your conditions that she has to CHOOSE to accept is getting a std test with the test results provided to you. If she balks or decides she can't do it, just tell her if that's your choice, so be it. Let's talk divorce terms now that reconciliation terms aren't being met. ............as calm and nonchalant as possible. In fact, have them ready for review. Don't f around here.


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## lucy999

Respectfully, you need to get your own therapist to figure out why you're so codependent on your cheating wife. And why you'd settle for such a low caliber person. 

Controlling. Ahh that old chestnut. 
Y-A-W-N.

Do you want a happy and fulfilling life with a loyal partner? She's not it. 

But you already know this. You are trying your damndest to force a square peg into a round hole. It won't work. Don't lower your standards and take her back. If you do, she will know she's got you by the short hairs and she can and will do whatever she pleases.


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## Rubix Cubed

You are not being controlling you are demanding consequences. Besides, why would someone who actually loves you behave in a way that they should be controlled? There shouldn't be any secrecy on her part. Total transparency is the order of the day, but she has something to hide so you are "controlling" her by seeking the truth. It's utter ********, plain and simple. She's playing you.


----------



## Marc878

Sounds like you want to stay in this no matter what. It’s going to be on her terms. Which means a rugsweep.

The problem is you’re likely to go through this again. How’d you like it the first time?


----------



## [email protected]

Chicagohusband2, you need to be wary of a lot of therapists. Go to a gathering of MSWs and you'll see a lot of screwballs. Many go into the field to deal with their own problems.
Anyway, sorry, but you're going to get a 2x4 here: You are rugsweeping, and if you don't deal with her assretions about your "controlling" you'll be back here next year at this time with the same problem. You DO NOT have to change a damn thing, she does!!


----------



## Andy1001

OP your wife sees herself as a great prize, a woman sought by many men and she doesn’t feel that she should have to explain much less justify her behavior to you or anyone else. 
Unfortunately for you you also see her as a great prize and I honestly believe if you walked into your own bedroom and saw her having sex with another guy the first thing you would do is to wonder what YOU did wrong. 
You need counseling to help you understand why you have such a low opinion of yourself.
And you also need a good divorce lawyer.


----------



## Beach123

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks everyone for your thoughts, some of them useful, some of them funny but overall I appreciate everyone's feedback and input.
> 
> We have talked a couple times in the last three days. Working on some sort of reconciliation, there is remorse there and a recognition that while she may not have been happy the affair was her choice and a poor one
> 
> She is working with a therapist on what caused her to turn to an affair as opposed to other options and how she can communicate her needs and feelings better in the future, But unfortunately, she at the current time finds my requests for Reconciliation (access to phone, detailed timelines of affair) too controlling. She has communicated that she felt very controlled during our marriage and these requests are further reflection of me being controlling. SO I am trying to work out a way that I can get the details I need to be able to trust without it feeling controller (i fully realize this could be an excuse as she is still knee deep in her emotional affair)


well, based on what you’re stating - there’s no possible way an authentic reconciliation can happen! She’s not being transparent and she isn’t doing everything possible to earn your trust back!

maybe you’ve been controlling because she obviously has the ability to cheat.

I vote do NOT reconcile! She isn’t sorry she did it - she is only sorry she got caught!


----------



## lostgirl17

I’m sorry you are going through this. You’re doing the correct thing. She doesn’t deserve you and you deserve better. Keep going. Get a new fresh life. Let her run to her lover, it always usually ends in tears anyhow and they try crawl back. Good luck. You’re strong to do this xx


----------



## Beach123

oldtruck said:


> controlling is what all WW's claim when their BH make NC, transparent, timeline, block
> the OM, write a NC letter, answer all questions about the affair, give up all passwords
> and social accounts, access to email, texts, phone, a requirement to recover the
> marriage.


ONLY the cheaters who wish to keep cheating claim the BS is controlling.

she is still cheating. Why are you considering anything with her at this point? She hasn’t proven one single thing that’s worth considering going back to her!

you can’t possibly trust her. Without trust there is no marriage.


----------



## Beach123

Why has your stance weakened so much since the weekend? What did she say - did you see her?
What happened for you to start bowing to her without her doing ANY of the hard work it takes to be believable/trustworthy?


----------



## Openminded

People who tell you that you’re controlling are usually the controlling ones. They want life totally on their terms and that includes rug sweeping. My ex-husband was excellent at that. I bought it the first time but I didn’t the second time. My prediction is that if you accept R on her terms there’ll be a second time for you as well. (Fact: You really, really feel like an idiot the second time because you gave them amother chance when they said it would never happen again — and yet there you are.)


----------



## snerg

Robert22205 said:


> 3 - I'm sorry but accusing you of being "controlling" is just a cheater's way of saying they want to live like a single person.
> 
> btw: if you truly controlled her behavior, how did she pull off her affair for so long?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Remember, Ego and Love are not mutually exclusive. I am not sure why some believe this is true. Now, keeping the marriage together at all costs is egotistical, but it doesn't mean there is no love involved. What you have to do is teach your ego to match your self worth. You are just as important as your wife. Your feelings are just as important as well.

Your self worth is equal. This is not a negotiation. She is passive aggressively telling you she wants to stay single and have you fund it. 
My wife can ask for my phone right now.
She can look at my tablet right now. 
She can look at my computer right now.

Same for her. When things got rough I did it and I was controlling. She screwed up and knew it. She sure as heck didn’t act like your wife. 

Let’s be real. 
Let’s say you were too controlling:
Is it better to cheat or just say I am done? 
Is it better to cheat or communicate the problem first?
Is it better to cheat or work on the marriage?
is it better to cheat or talk to one of your friends?
etc.

The list goes on and on and on before cheating should even come up if at all.

You are worth more than a paycheck, insults and being plan b.


----------



## Marduk

Andy1001 said:


> OP your wife sees herself as a great prize, a woman sought by many men and she doesn’t feel that she should have to explain much less justify her behavior to you or anyone else.


Bingo.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Beach123 said:


> Why has your stance weakened so much since the weekend? What did she say - did you see her?
> What happened for you to start bowing to her without her doing ANY of the hard work it takes to be believable/trustworthy?


Yes I did see her on weekend. Came over to get more belongings. It certainly set me back a bit, old feeling and emotions came back. easier to manipulate someone in person tan over text

But, I am going to proceed by stating that if my two conditions (transparency and timeline) are not meant to start there is no need for us to talk further. Non-Negotiable 👊


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## Marc878

Good start. I’d want a polygraph.

If you feed a cake eater they'll just want more cake. At your expense of course.


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Yes I did see her on weekend. Came over to get more belongings. It certainly set me back a bit, old feeling and emotions came back. easier to manipulate someone in person tan over text
> 
> But, I am going to proceed by stating that if my two conditions (transparency and timeline) are not meant to start there is no need for us to talk further. Non-Negotiable 👊


I'd recommend a different approach.

"Wife, given you haven't been willing to give me what I need, like transparency, a timeline, and demonstrating actual remorse, this is not working for me. Even if you give me those things now, it's only because I forced you to, not because you wanted to. Which means you're asking me to reconcile but will only do things because you have to, not because you actually regret what you did. So I'm going to recommend that we not bother with trying to reconcile, because it's clear to me that you don't actually regret or understand what you did."

And then walk the hell away. Don't pick up if she calls. Don't respond to texts. Let her sweat it out.

If after a few days or a week she attempts to contact you and willingly give you what you need openly maybe you talk to her then. If you do, hold the high ground and be willing to walk away at any time. She's banking on her perception that you won't actually leave her.


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## Robert22205

Good job of standing up to her. You spoke just a few words (and I know how difficult it was) - but they were very powerful.

You are on a course of exiting from a life of infidelity and also giving your wife every opportunity to prove that you can trust her - and that she deserves the gift of you deciding to try to reconcile with her.


----------



## Gabriel

Marduk said:


> I'd recommend a different approach.
> 
> "Wife, given you haven't been willing to give me what I need, like transparency, a timeline, and demonstrating actual remorse, this is not working for me. Even if you give me those things now, it's only because I forced you to, not because you wanted to. Which means you're asking me to reconcile but will only do things because you have to, not because you actually regret what you did. So I'm going to recommend that we not bother with trying to reconcile, because it's clear to me that you don't actually regret or understand what you did."
> 
> And then walk the hell away. Don't pick up if she calls. Don't respond to texts. Let her sweat it out.
> 
> If after a few days or a week she attempts to contact you and willingly give you what you need openly maybe you talk to her then. If you do, hold the high ground and be willing to walk away at any time. She's banking on her perception that you won't actually leave her.


He won't do that. He has his two conditions (timeline and transparency), and if he gets those he wants to reconcile. 

Honestly, Timeline should NOT be an issue. You don't need exact dates, but you need to hold her to task for math that doesn't had up. Tell her what you told us - "you were liking his Instagram posts a year before you said you fell for him. You lied about who you ate dinner with. You ghosted me for blocks of time in the evenings when you were together at work events. YOU need to prove to me you weren't f**king him. Your job to set my mind at ease, not to "be inconvenienced". If you think it's controlling to demand proof of basic marital requirements, then you aren't fit to be married. Period." 

If she can't do that, then there isn't even any need to move to the Transparency ask.

Maybe you just start with this. Then once you are satisfied with her answers, you move on to "okay, I have to decide whether that is acceptable to move forward. Assuming it is, what are you (wife) going to do to put my mind at ease going forward? Your word and promises aren't enough, since you already covered up this affair, after saying vows to me. So lay out a proposal for me for how I should verify you are staying faithful."

Question, is this guy single or married? If married, you need to blow up his wife's phone and tell her what her H is doing.


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## Gabriel

This is what I think about your wife;

1) She feels you are were the sole villain in the marriage before her affair
2) That her affair essentially made you two "even", that she did something wrong but isn't a bigger villain than you
3) Given she is going to counseling, she does think that the affair was wrong. And she feels the need for self-care in a broken marriage where she stooped to a level she didn't expect to go. AND the self care is likely also to help her "get over" the other man, which she is struggling mightily to do.
4)  She would like to not continue the affair, and is not pursuing it, but is having a hard time letting him go.
5) She would like to get back to normal, but not at all costs. She feels that her self-healing will be her "improvements" and that you don't get to dictate how she does this.
6) She's willing to work with you on making the marriage work, but only if she does it her way, and only if you fix your pre-affair villainous behavior in the marriage.

How'd I do?

Guessing she will not waver from #5 and #6. That's her line in the sand, and where your decision point lies.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Gabriel said:


> Question, is this guy single or married? If married, you need to blow up his wife's phone and tell her what her H is doing.


No, if he was I would certainly be doing that. Still holding a call to his HR department in my back pocket. That will be done at some point whether is most settlement or post R


----------



## Openminded

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Yes I did see her on weekend. Came over to get more belongings. It certainly set me back a bit, old feeling and emotions came back. easier to manipulate someone in person than over text.


Indeed it is. And that is why no contact was recommended until your feelings were under control. The one who values the relationship more is at a disadvantage and that’s you.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Gabriel said:


> This is what I think about your wife;
> 
> 1) She feels you are were the sole villain in the marriage before her affair
> 2) That her affair essentially made you two "even", that she did something wrong but isn't a bigger villain than you
> 3) Given she is going to counseling, she does think that the affair was wrong. And she feels the need for self-care in a broken marriage where she stooped to a level she didn't expect to go. AND the self care is likely also to help her "get over" the other man, which she is struggling mightily to do.
> 4) She would like to not continue the affair, and is not pursuing it, but is having a hard time letting him go.
> 5) She would like to get back to normal, but not at all costs. She feels that her self-healing will be her "improvements" and that you don't get to dictate how she does this.
> 6) She's willing to work with you on making the marriage work, but only if she does it her way, and only if you fix your pre-affair villainous behavior in the marriage.
> 
> How'd I do?
> 
> Guessing she will not waver from #5 and #6. That's her line in the sand, and where your decision point lies.


I think you hit every point right on the head of the nail. It wouldn't surprise me in point #4 if she still is pursuing it in a way. But everything else is bang on


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## Chicagohusband2020

Openminded said:


> Indeed it is. And that is why no contact was recommended until your feelings were under control. The one who values the relationship more is at a disadvantage and that’s you.


I guess next time I ask her to book a moving truck to move ALL of her stuff. Or i have a close friend stand in for me to supervise what she is taking


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## Marc878

Sounds like you’re on the verge of a rugsweep. Won’t seem so bad upfront but living with your gut screaming at you long term not so much.

Let me clue you in on IC’s and MC’s. A lot of them are rugsweeprs. Save the marriage at all cost (that’s what they charge for) so it’s acceptable to lie to save the marriage. What your husband doesn’t know won’t hurt him. All at your expense of course. You seem intelligent enough but like most it’s comfortable upfront to live in denial.

Now the “you’re controlling“, etc. Probably IC related too. She’s probably rewritten the marital history for justification of her affair. Very common. She wants to maintain her privacy so you never get the full truth and maybe to continue her wayward lifestyle.

Bud, if nothing changes you’ll probably get a continuation and or a repeat of her behavior. How did you like it this time?

If you take your blinders off you can probably reflect back and see this isn’t a new phenomenon. Selfish behavior, manipulation, etc. You may have ignored or overlooked it but I’d bet it was there all along.

Deep down you know the truth but like a lot you’re trying to believe her so you don’t have to deal with it. Hoping it’ll just go away. It won’t long term.

Better put some more thought into what you want out of life. You are the one who gets to determine that.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> No, if he was I would certainly be doing that. Still holding a call to his HR department in my back pocket. That will be done at some point whether is most settlement or post R


I'd hold on that for now. 

My recommendation there would be to keep that missile in the silo for when you need it. Like, for example, should you two actually reconcile and she gives you transparency and a commitment of zero contact.

Then you do something like call his HR department (which will actually likely achieve nothing but a phone call from the HR department to him at best). 

Then if she asks you why you called HR on him, you'll know that they are still in contact. But don't think calling HR would actually hurt him in any way, because it likely won't.


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## Marc878

Right now your heart is overriding your brain. Make no mistake your heart/emotions will betray you.
Common sense in these situations is not so common.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Marduk said:


> I'd hold on that for now.
> 
> My recommendation there would be to keep that missile in the silo for when you need it. Like, for example, should you two actually reconcile and she gives you transparency and a commitment of zero contact.
> 
> Then you do something like call his HR department (which will actually likely achieve nothing but a phone call from the HR department to him at best).
> 
> Then if she asks you why you called HR on him, you'll know that they are still in contact. But don't think calling HR would actually hurt him in any way, because it likely won't.


Even a call from HR and a 5 minutes of his heart beating out of his chest would be good enough for me


----------



## Marc878

Marduk said:


> I'd hold on that for now.
> 
> My recommendation there would be to keep that missile in the silo for when you need it. Like, for example, should you two actually reconcile and she gives you transparency and a commitment of zero contact.
> 
> Then you do something like call his HR department (which will actually likely achieve nothing but a phone call from the HR department to him at best).
> 
> Then if she asks you why you called HR on him, you'll know that they are still in contact. But don't think calling HR would actually hurt him in any way, because it likely won't.


Correct. He maybe a part of this but the bigger problem is your wife. OM wouldn’t have been an issue if your wife hadn’t let him in.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I guess next time I ask her to book a moving truck to move ALL of her stuff. Or i have a close friend stand in for me to supervise what she is taking


"You have until X date at Y time to arrange to have your stuff moved out. I'll make sure that it's done with supervision. At X date and Y time plus 1 hour, I will start having your stuff moved to the front lawn."

Don't mess around. Be clear. It will help her understand the stakes.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Even a call from HR and a 5 minutes of his heart beating out of his chest would be good enough for me


Sure, it'll feel good for a moment.

But he's not the real problem here. There will always be guys willing to get with married women. The problem isn't really him, although he shares accountability here. The root cause that you need to sort out is your wife.

And given that she won't let you see her phone, there are only three options regarding that, just to level set:

1. the affair is still happening;
2. there are other guys involved;
3. the affair was a lot more extensive than she's willing to admit.

These three are not mutually exclusive. All three could be true.

So you're not yet dealing with the bedrock truth of the situation, and you need to assume the affair is ongoing.


----------



## Beach123

I can’t see one single reason to reconcile.

she hasn’t willingly OFFERED her truth about the affair. Not even how far she actually allowed it to go!
She isn’t remorseful
She wants her old life back without doing the hard work with a counselor
She hasn’t found her root cause of why SHE should own HER behavior
She isn’t sorry she did it
She is sorry she got caught
She isn’t considering how this has affected YOUR FEELINGS
She hasn’t completely changed her behavior
She is still the same selfish, entitled, self absorbed *itch to you
She hasn’t proven she ended the affair
She has had nearly no consequences
She wants your money not necessarily your companionship
She’s broken and hasn’t fixed herself

she offers you NOTHING but a sure bet of more cheating and MORE heartbreak!

do NOT consider anything but filing for divorce NOW!

and YOU start making HUGE demands! You do NOT want the old version of herself! She is still a ***** and a cheater!!! If she complains - that means she isn’t ready to become a faithful and supportive wife - and that proves that you two are NOT a good match!

RUN to the divorce attorney! And do not get weak by talking to her!

I hope you didn’t have sex with her this weekend - but my guess is she manipulated you and you caved.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Beach123 said:


> I can’t see one single reason to reconcile.
> 
> she hasn’t willingly OFFERED her truth about the affair. Not even how far she actually allowed it to go!
> She isn’t remorseful
> She wants her old life back without doing the hard work with a counselor
> She hasn’t found her root cause of why SHE should own HER behavior
> She isn’t sorry she did it
> She is sorry she got caught
> She isn’t considering how this has affected YOUR FEELINGS
> She hasn’t completely changed her behavior
> She is still the same selfish, entitled, self absorbed *itch to you
> She hasn’t proven she ended the affair
> She has had nearly no consequences
> She wants your money not necessarily your companionship
> She’s broken and hasn’t fixed herself
> 
> she offers you NOTHING but a sure bet of more cheating and MORE heartbreak!
> 
> do NOT consider anything but filing for divorce NOW!
> 
> and YOU start making HUGE demands! You do NOT want the old version of herself! She is still a *itch and a cheater!!! If she complains - that means she isn’t ready to become a faithful and supportive wife - and that proves that you two are NOT a good match!
> 
> RUN to the divorce attorney! And do not get weak by talking to her!
> 
> I hope you didn’t have sex with her this weekend - but my guess is she manipulated you and you caved.


I did not. I resisted and stood strong


----------



## Gabriel

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I did not. I resisted and stood strong


Did she try to seduce you?


----------



## Openminded

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I guess next time I ask her to book a moving truck to move ALL of her stuff. Or i have a close friend stand in for me to supervise what she is taking


That would be better for you.


----------



## Openminded

I initially blamed the OW (plural) for pursuing my ex-husband (he was very socially awkward so uncomfortable around women but he was also very successful and very attractive so he was definitely a “prize”). Then I realized that even if they did pursue him it was _his_ responsibility to shut it down and he didn’t. Spouses often like to blame the AP when the only one they should be outraged about is the person they’re married to. Put the blame where it 100% belongs — on your spouse. They’re the one who blew your world up. The AP was just along for all the fun and games your spouse was handing out. Once I accepted that, I stopped plotting their demise and started planning my new life without the stress of living with a cheater.


----------



## Openminded

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I did not. I resisted and stood strong


There are plenty of women who use sex to manipulate. Maybe she’s already tried or maybe at some point she‘ll decide to try but it’s just another reason you need to stay away from her until you’re sure what you’re doing.


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## drifting on

Chicago,

Your wife is blaming you for her choice, blaming you because you have only shown weakness. She is in therapy and still blames you, yet she’s trying to figure out how YOUR actions drove her to this. She doesn’t ask how you are because she feels safe, because you haven’t been firm in the least. Now your probably thinking I’m wrong and a huge jerk, putting it nicely, but think to yourself, what have I done that gave her a consequence? Nothing. 

Look, I’m not trying to be mean or even a jerk, I made mistakes in my own recovery. I can go back to posts and see my weakness clear as day, and it makes me want to vomit. Your wife is a special cupcake though, isn’t she, blaming you for sexting and sending videos, and leaving your home only to call him for 40 minutes. You should have gone nuclear, but you didn’t, she doesn’t want to block him, and you should have smashed her phone in front of her. 

If you want to make a stand, then do it, but right now you are only showing weakness. So call OM’s work, tell the HR department about the affair, that they paid for the dinners. Call your wife’s HR and inform them. Have a lawyer draw up divorce papers then have her served at work. Don’t answer or respond to any attempts of contact. If she comes to your house call the police to have her removed. List infidelity and OM as the reason for divorce. Block her on all devices, have your attorney state any contact will be through the attorney. 

PM me if you have any questions, but the last thing that will work is reconciliation, not with your wife. She isn’t even close to remorse, she still says your controlling. Good luck.


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## Beach123

You’d be sending a stronger message by taking action instead of listening to anything she says/types.

action would look like:
Blocking her ability to reach you
Packing ALL her stuff and having it delivered to her directly
Have her served with divorce papers

then and only then will she realize you aren’t taking her lies and crap excuses to consider reconciling!

she lies. Know that. She just expects you to believe her lies. And she figures she doesn’t have to change a darn thing to get you back. And she figures you are weak - so weak that she can blame you and require that YOU change to meet HER needs! What a load of crap she has laid at your feet!!!

unbelievable! She must have the biggest ego I’ve seen on a woman!

and as a woman - she is the kind that makes us look bad!
Do NOT settle for her crap! Life is too short and YOU deserve so much better!


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## faithfulman

@Chicagohusband2020 - I know that all this hardcore advice to send her divorce papers, blow up her world, require transparency, honesty, no contact etc. is difficult to do.

Because you love your wife. And you are only weeks out from knowing she was stabbing you in the back in the worst way, and for most people, that doesn't turn love off immediately. But it does turn on hurt and anguish.

Meanwhile, she has been "loving you but not in love with you" for over a year. This puts her at a big advantage. She hasn't given a damn about you and your hurt for over a year, if she ever truly did care.

She is STONE.

Meanwhile, you FEEL FEAR. Fear of doing the wrong thing and losing her forever.

So you are reticent to take bold action that might drive her off.

***

*But here are the facts:*

Not only is she "not in love with you", she doesn't respect you at all.
You've already lost her, sexually, spiritually, and you can't trust her either.
You can't make her come back and love you. You can't make her do anything. Well almost anything.
* 
Truth is, the fears that are restraining you have already come true:*

Sex, check
Intimacy, check
Lies, check
Proclaiming love for another man, check
Total disrespect, check
You have nothing left to lose with her.


*Bold action is all you have right now. You can teach her that disrespecting your wedding vows and crossing you so terribly comes with a price:*

You can serve her divorce papers.
You can expose her and her man.
You can cut her off from the comfort and stability you provide.
If you do these things, she'll get mad, she'll talk ****, she'll do a lot of things. But in the end, she will damn well respect you.

You will have made her respect you.

And even more important? You will respect yourself.


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## Beach123

It’s true she will throw a fit when she actually realizes you plan to divorce her...

that’s why it’s beneficial to block all ways she can reach you - including changing the locks on the house you live in.


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## OutofRetirement

Given her obvious detachment, I would be completely shocked if she wasn't still communicating with him. I would think that her social media postins is for him as much for you. I think there shoud be strong, strong presumption that she had sex with him and she still is continuing with him long distance. I put 99% that she had sex with him, about 100% (maybe 99.99%) that she still is messaging with him. Romantically and sexually. If you read enough on this, in your wife's situation, given her behaviors, it kind of is a "tell" of what happened and what still is happening. Apparently it's like a drug, it gets her so high, and it gets addicting. Practically none can go cold turkey. But if they are at least trying to go cold turkey, and not contacting much, then there are "tells" too. She would be much more angry about you, would be on a rollercoaster with you, and would be willing to "give in" to your demands one day and refusing the next. Really, it is very close to how an addict goes through withdrawals. It's not pretty, and there's lots of highs and lows. But your wife is out happy as a clam posting all her fun stuff. That's the addict who has found a way to get the drug. I've read a lot here.

As far as sex, I wouldn't think that it was necessarily limited to work trips. Men will spend money for sex, and even more for love and sex. And you don't know if he is in love with your wife. There are guys who fall in love with married women. I wouldn't assume that he was not really thinking he love her. But even if it was mostly sex, he still had to be pretending "in love" to get what he wanted from your wife. Any way, I know during this time with country borders, he's not physically going a couple thousand miles, but prior to this, I would not at all be surprised if he did get a hotel near your house, and your wife could have taken a few sick days or personal time and you'd never know the difference.


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## Beach123

^^^^ this100%


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## Beach123

She hasn’t had enough swift and harsh consequences to get truly remorseful.

have you informed her family and all of your friends about exactly what she’s done? if not, expose her actions to all! She did it - she should own it.

and as a woman - I don’t send private/intimate photos to any man I haven’t had sex with!

she had sex with him... know that 1000%


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## Gabriel

These last few posts are amazing. Chicago, listen very closely to them. These are wise, wise words from people who have seen dozens of these stories and behaviors. Most of us say, "but not my wife, you don't know her". We've all said that about our wives. Yet, they all did what these people are saying. It's hard to accept, but it's almost always true.


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## Beach123

Gabriel said:


> These last few posts are amazing. Chicago, listen very closely to them. These are wise, wise words from people who have seen dozens of these stories and behaviors. Most of us say, "but not my wife, you don't know her". We've all said that about our wives. Yet, they all did what these people are saying. It's hard to accept, but it's almost always true.


dozens? Hmmm, more like thousands of posters just like his.

Generally IF a marriage that’s had a spouse cheating is going to look successful - the one who cheated needs to own their way they participated, be COMPLETELY remorseful, offering up to never contact the affair person ever again, and do the heavy lifting to repair that damage they caused!
Here is a list of what the cheater should be actively doing/not doing to help build trust...

No minimizing
No manipulating
No lying
No Pretending
No avoiding being honest
No blame shifting
No demands
No entitlement
No expecting to be forgiven
No sex to sway the BS
No assuming the BS is healing
No assuming the work is up to anyone but the cheater
No waiting to seek counseling to learn why they cheated and what changes they need to make to never cheat again
No waiting to find out what’s broken about them and fixing what is broken!
They need to become capable of owning their behavior and understanding that everything they do affects others! And IF it’s behavior that harms someone else - then they better not be doing that behavior.
Understanding when YOU feel hurt! And to be willing to discuss honestly why there is hurt and how to address that pain openly! Always considering how YOU feel... that’s a must!

Only blaming themself for all the crap they created! Only looking at themself to fix what they created!

and since she isn’t doing all of that and more - she isn’t/ hasn’t changed a thing!


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## drifting on

Chicago

I know this all seems harsh to you, believe me I walked in your shoes. Your wife detached from you easily, because she had the safety net, OM. When this is all over you will notice many things you did wrong, that’s how I learned too. When she said the I love you but not in love with you speech, there is truly only one response that MAY have a chance to save a marriage. That response is, get out. Instead you tried desperately to change, to correct your flaws, and place her on a pedestal to be her servant. However, look at what you knew at the time, nothing of the affair. You, like myself, were thrust into a war you never knew about. Right now you need to know only one thing, you are at war and both your enemies need to be destroyed without mercy.

You probably think I’m crazy for saying this, but I assure you I’m not crazy. You need to be rid of all emotions, no drinking, and become cold and calculated. You don’t have to be mean, oh no, you need to be cruel. Think about this, why would her therapist have her work on why she cheated because of your flaws. Doesn’t make sense, does it? Then she pulls the controlling card, are you controlling? So she won’t admit to a physical affair but will an emotional affair, she won’t give a timeline, because she knows you will divorce her. Now think about this, she asked why your check wasn’t deposited into the joint account, now she knows some of what you plan. Your only choice is to go completely nuclear, destroy everything, and that includes anyone involved with the affair. Even friends must be exposed of who knew of the affair and help to keep it hidden. 

Get mad Chicago, but use that anger wisely, @No Longer Lonely Husband can help you with that. Several other posters can you help you too, pm me and I will tell you who. Stay strong, it’s going to be a long brutal ride.


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## drifting on

Chicago

Forgot to add this, if the roles were reversed, would she have been just as accepting as you? Would she be willing to work it out because her flaws caused you to cheat? Would she want a timeline? Would she say it’s controlling? Then ask her if she really is that stupid, because she just hit a personal low.


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## Marduk

drifting on said:


> Chicago
> 
> Forgot to add this, if the roles were reversed, would she have been just as accepting as you? Would she be willing to work it out because her flaws caused you to cheat? Would she want a timeline? Would she say it’s controlling? Then ask her if she really is that stupid, because she just hit a personal low.


One of the common traits of those that have cheated is that they are very anxious about getting cheated on in return.

I agree with your direction here - one thing I think I would say in this situation would be "if you truly want to reconcile, you need to accept that I'm going to date other people openly, and you must be monogamous with me. I mean, that's the way it was for you, right? Only you were lying about it? So if you really want to reconcile, you should be fine with that."

I mean, I wouldn't actually date other people, but I think it's a good gauge for testing how remorseful they are, and it's a good way to put the shoe on the other foot.


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## Gabriel

When a woman falls in love with someone outside the marriage, it's really hard to recover. It's possible though, and I say that because this is exactly what happened with my situation. Wife absolutely fell in love with her OM/friend. The only way we reconciled was her complete removal of him from his life. Why did she agree and actually do that? Because I told her I would file without hesitation if she broke the no contact. And she believed me. She was too scared to actually leave the marriage. She understood this was a line in the sand. And they hadn't gotten physical yet or I wouldn't even have given her the opportunity. And I had all her passwords and monitored her emails and Facebook for quite some time. Eventually, after many many instances of evidence she was obeying the no contact order, I felt comfortable enough to end my monitoring. 

It's a very gradual process. I'd say 2-3 years is normal to be in this state. It sucks. But honestly, I'm glad this is the route I took as we eventually got through it and our marriage improved significantly. We have 3 kids, so there was extra motivation to make it work.

I say this to tell you it's possible, but it takes a lot of work and a long time, and complete willingness of your wife to eradicate the OM and prove it to you. My wife admitted fault and at times worried about my feelings but also, like yours, she wasn't showing complete remorse either. She had communicated to me very clearly before her affair what she needed and gave me many chances to meet her needs. I didn't do it. And while that doesn't justify cheating it does explain why there wasn't 100% begging/remorse, etc, that everyone on TAM calls for. Sound familiar?


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## Chicagohusband2020

Gabriel said:


> When a woman falls in love with someone outside the marriage, it's really hard to recover. It's possible though, and I say that because this is exactly what happened with my situation. Wife absolutely fell in love with her OM/friend. The only way we reconciled was her complete removal of him from his life. Why did she agree and actually do that? Because I told her I would file without hesitation if she broke the no contact. And she believed me. She was too scared to actually leave the marriage. She understood this was a line in the sand. And they hadn't gotten physical yet or I wouldn't even have given her the opportunity. And I had all her passwords and monitored her emails and Facebook for quite some time. Eventually, after many many instances of evidence she was obeying the no contact order, I felt comfortable enough to end my monitoring.
> 
> It's a very gradual process. I'd say 2-3 years is normal to be in this state. It sucks. But honestly, I'm glad this is the route I took as we eventually got through it and our marriage improved significantly. We have 3 kids, so there was extra motivation to make it work.
> 
> I say this to tell you it's possible, but it takes a lot of work and a long time, and complete willingness of your wife to eradicate the OM and prove it to you. My wife admitted fault and at times worried about my feelings but also, like yours, she wasn't showing complete remorse either. She had communicated to me very clearly before her affair what she needed and gave me many chances to meet her needs. I didn't do it. And while that doesn't justify cheating it does explain why there wasn't 100% begging/remorse, etc, that everyone on TAM calls for. Sound familiar?


Very much so, thanks


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

drifting on said:


> Chicago,
> 
> Your wife is blaming you for her choice, blaming you because you have only shown weakness. She is in therapy and still blames you, yet she’s trying to figure out how YOUR actions drove her to this. She doesn’t ask how you are because she feels safe, because you haven’t been firm in the least. Now your probably thinking I’m wrong and a huge jerk, putting it nicely, but think to yourself, what have I done that gave her a consequence? Nothing.
> 
> Look, I’m not trying to be mean or even a jerk, I made mistakes in my own recovery. I can go back to posts and see my weakness clear as day, and it makes me want to vomit. Your wife is a special cupcake though, isn’t she, blaming you for sexting and sending videos, and leaving your home only to call him for 40 minutes. You should have gone nuclear, but you didn’t, she doesn’t want to block him, and you should have smashed her phone in front of her.
> 
> If you want to make a stand, then do it, but right now you are only showing weakness. So call OM’s work, tell the HR department about the affair, that they paid for the dinners. Call your wife’s HR and inform them. Have a lawyer draw up divorce papers then have her served at work. Don’t answer or respond to any attempts of contact. If she comes to your house call the police to have her removed. List infidelity and OM as the reason for divorce. Block her on all devices, have your attorney state any contact will be through the attorney.
> 
> PM me if you have any questions, but the last thing that will work is reconciliation, not with your wife. She isn’t even close to remorse, she still says your controlling. Good luck.


Chicago, 

This is the best advice you have been given. You have tried to play ”Mr. Nice”. Mr.Nice does not succeed in these situations. When you play Mr. Nice, she sees you as weak and easily manipulated. DO is spot on on having her served at work. With a wayward, bold and swift unexpected actions are necessary. 

I had been married 29 years when my 53 year old wife stepped out on me for several months. Once I caught and confronted her while she was standing next to POSOM at her office open house I was not invited to. I handed her my wine glass, looked her in the eye and said “have fun with “Richard Cranium” Tonight. If you decide to come home we can take about how we are going to split everything up” I was angry beyond words, as well as hurt worse than I ever have been in my life. We are now over 4 years into R. How did I succeed you may wonder? I took the advice provided me, analyzed it, and applied it to my situation.

I went ****ing nuclear on my FWW. I exposed to my adult children, her siblings, my siblings and my parents on the first round. The second round I exposed on Facebook. She did not know what hit her. I left the state for our place in Florida for six weeks before returning back to live at my farm rather than our house for a week. I followed 180 to the letter of it. Guess what? It really does work.

I gave you some advice a my “boot camp” but apparently it did not register. As Drifting On has said, she is your enemy. Do not forget that. I know you love her, but you must show her you will be finer than frog hair split four ways without her. If you have questions on how to achieve your objective, I am only a PM away.

As I told you earlier, time to rip the band aid off and man up!


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## Nucking Futs

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Chicago,
> 
> This is the best advice you have been given. You have tried to play ”Mr. Nice”. Mr.Nice does not succeed in these situations. When you play Mr. Nice, she sees you as weak and easily manipulated. DO is spot on on having her served at work. With a wayward, bold and swift unexpected actions are necessary.
> 
> I had been married 29 years when my 53 year old wife stepped out on me for several months. Once I caught and confronted her while she was standing next to POSOM at her office open house I was not invited to. I handed her my wine glass, looked her in the eye and said “have fun with “Richard Cranium” Tonight. If you decide to come home we can take about how we are going to split everything up” I was angry beyond words, as well as hurt worse than I ever have been in my life. We are now over 4 years into R. How did I succeed you may wonder? I took the advice provided me, analyzed it, and applied it to my situation.
> 
> I went ****ing nuclear on my FWW. I exposed to my adult children, her siblings, my siblings and my parents on the first round. The second round I exposed on Facebook. She did not know what hit her. I left the state for our place in Florida for six weeks before returning back to live at my farm rather than our house for a week. I followed 180 to the letter of it. Guess what? It really does work.
> 
> I gave you some advice a my “boot camp” but apparently it did not register. As Drifting On has said, she is your enemy. Do not forget that. I know you love her, but you must show her you will be finer than frog hair split four ways without her. If you have questions on how to achieve your objective, I am only a PM away.
> 
> As I told you earlier, time to rip the band aid off and man up!


Chicago, balls to the wall is really the best way to go here. Dithering only makes you look weak, and weakness is not attractive.


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## Marc878

At this time you may be afraid to take a stand assuming it may push her away? Don’t be. She already left.
Get strong and stay there. It’s about the only thing that my bring them back if that is what you seek.
Strength is attractive. Weakness is not.


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## Chicagohusband2020

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Chicago,
> 
> This is the best advice you have been given. You have tried to play ”Mr. Nice”. Mr.Nice does not succeed in these situations. When you play Mr. Nice, she sees you as weak and easily manipulated. DO is spot on on having her served at work. With a wayward, bold and swift unexpected actions are necessary.
> 
> I had been married 29 years when my 53 year old wife stepped out on me for several months. Once I caught and confronted her while she was standing next to POSOM at her office open house I was not invited to. I handed her my wine glass, looked her in the eye and said “have fun with “Richard Cranium” Tonight. If you decide to come home we can take about how we are going to split everything up” I was angry beyond words, as well as hurt worse than I ever have been in my life. We are now over 4 years into R. How did I succeed you may wonder? I took the advice provided me, analyzed it, and applied it to my situation.
> 
> I went ****ing nuclear on my FWW. I exposed to my adult children, her siblings, my siblings and my parents on the first round. The second round I exposed on Facebook. She did not know what hit her. I left the state for our place in Florida for six weeks before returning back to live at my farm rather than our house for a week. I followed 180 to the letter of it. Guess what? It really does work.
> 
> I gave you some advice a my “boot camp” but apparently it did not register. As Drifting On has said, she is your enemy. Do not forget that. I know you love her, but you must show her you will be finer than frog hair split four ways without her. If you have questions on how to achieve your objective, I am only a PM away.
> 
> As I told you earlier, time to rip the band aid off and man up!


Can you DM me? It will not allow me to send you a DM. Thanks


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## Nucking Futs

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Can you DM me? It will not allow me to send you a DM. Thanks


Good choice.


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## Affaircare

@Chicagohusband2020, 

I am working and only have a minute, but I will echo what @Gabriel and @No Longer Lonely Husband have said. I was a wandering wife and cheated on my Dear Hubby (who passed away in 2017). It was an online affair, we never met in person due to being in different states, and thus we were never physical but it was infidelity nonetheless. When my Dear Hubby discovered proof, the first thing he did was email OM directly and said "She is MY WIFE. If you think for one second I'm just going to let her go without a fight, you've got another thing coming!" There was more, but that was the gist of the letter. Then, he grabbed our largest suitcase, but my clothes and some toiletries in it, took me down to the bus/train station, and said "I do not control you and you are completely free to make whatever choice you decide to make, but I will not tolerate adultery in our marriage. You can choose to come home and work on our marriage, and that's what I hope you'll choose. Or you can choose to go be with the OM. But know this for a certainty, if you choose to go to the OM now, you will never, ever come back home and the door to my heart will be forever closed to you." 

I chose to go back home with him. 

At first, I was a bit rebellious and didn't want to give up passwords and end all contact with all friends immediately... but that didn't really last too long. I wasn't perfect. But what I did do was step-by-step make this right choice...and then some fog would clear. Then I'd make the next right choice and MORE fog would clear. I did give up all contact with OM for the rest of my life the very first day. Then I gave up the game we met on. Then I gave up the friends who knew OM and I as a couple rather than Dear Hubby and I. On and on in the right direction. 

So @Chicagohusband2020 your wife may not be perfect right away, but what she WOULD do is end all contact AND BE WILLING TO INCLUDE YOU SO YOU CAN SEE FOR YOURSELF that she's done that. She would eat a little crow and let you have the passwords and transparency because SHE ACTED IN AN UNTRUSTWORTHY WAY. She would begin to set up boundaries on herself that she enforces rather than blaming you for her actions and making you "make her" stop doing things. 

Finally, let me refer you to a blog post I made about Reconciliation vs Rugsweeping: The difference between Reconciliation and Rug Sweeping

You are currently FIRMLY in "rugsweeping"


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Can you DM me? It will not allow me to send you a DM. Thanks


Try to PM me now. I changed settings. This new application is still somewhat challenging to me.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Try PM now . I sent you a test message


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## Beach123

If she offers to finally show you her phone - don’t jump for joy at the thought... it’s possible she could carry a burner phone to keep in touch with him.

if she ever moves back home - every single thing should be shifted through (including pockets AND her car) to see if she is now secretly planning to keep in contact with the OM.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Beach123 said:


> If she offers to finally show you her phone - don’t jump for joy at the thought... it’s possible she could carry a burner phone to keep in touch with him.
> 
> if she ever moves back home - every single thing should be shifted through (including pockets AND her car) to see if she is now secretly planning to keep in contact with the OM.


Can also delete everything in advance. move to email millions ways to avoid detection for a period of time if you want to


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## Beach123

Well sure. So just remember the facts - she is at her core selfish and self serving and will blame you.

personally, I wish you would actually see her for who she is instead of that pedestal you have her on.


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## faithfulman

@Chicagohusband2020 - there is such a thing a recovery for deleted content on a phone, including texts, videos, images, cheater app messages, and more.

So if you ever get her phone, get Fonelab and run a recovery instantly!

Just do not ever tell her it is possible to do.

And if the phone was factory reset, then she already knows and wiped the phone completely.


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## drifting on

Chicago

Have you thought much about what advice you have been given? Have you honestly taken a deep look into your actions regarding this? Has your perception of your actions slowly showing to be weak to yourself? I ask you these questions in a sincere manner, not in a hurtful way. After self reflecting on myself I found many of my actions to be weak, but to no fault of my own, I didn’t know a war had been declared. If you wish to know how I felt, well I became enraged, took actions calling out OM, and for a couple of years kept him unemployed. I issued consequences to my wife as well, interrogated her relentlessly, and every answer she gave, I said try again. There was a time I actually thought someone could cry themselves to death, it’s not pretty. I was determined to break my wife like she did me, even though she showed remorse, many posters here helped me to then help myself. 

Chicago I don’t envy your situation, I’ve been there and have the t-shirt, but remember this, you will make it through when you decide to get yourself healthy. That’s right, the worst time of your life is going to get better and you will survive. Many posters will help you, read what they have all told you, apply what is applicable to your situation. Know that you aren’t alone, look at how many posts I made to get healthy. Some are helpful, some are sarcastic, that blend will get you through. Talk to a therapist, I did for three years, turns out I’m suffering from PTSD as well as infidelity, therapy helped me to navigate these issues to becoming a far better person. My D-day was 1/20/2014, the affair hardly comes to mind now, and when it does I’m healthy enough to only feel a moment of sadness. I’ve moved on with my life, I’ve reconciled my marriage, it’s my wife’s choice if she wants to continue with me and the plans I’ve made. My wife has the same choice @Affaircare made, leave or go. 

If you haven’t made any moves by now to go nuclear, then I suggest you get real busy come Monday morning. You aren’t doing this for your wife or marriage, you’re doing this for you. Channel your rage in an effective and calculating way, never lose sight of reality, keep the two enemies who chose to destroy you in the crosshairs. Best of luck to you Chicago, monsters of the midway is your new attitude.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Chicago2020, again you have received wise counsel from DO. If you want to move forward please “listen“to him. Being nice is not going to cut it. As DO said “YOU’RE DOING THIS FOR YOU”.


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## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Can also delete everything in advance. move to email millions ways to avoid detection for a period of time if you want to


You can't catch them unless they are really bad at it, or unlucky. Their passion for being "in love" with each other also helps them get caught, i.e., they can't help themselves and takes too many risks.

No matter how they do it, they need time and space. As you saw, last time you were aware, I believe, she was on the phone for 40 minutes during a car ride. So she needs space away from you, and really most cheaters don't need 40 minutes to talk, they send very short messages with no substance other than "can't wait to sex you" or "miss you so much" or "send me a pic of your breasts" or juvenile stuff like that.

Once you caught them once, it's pretty easy to see if they are still in touch. One, still attached to the phone, guarding the phone, taking it with them even in the bathroom, leaving it screen face-down, even sleeping with it under the pillow. Second, and harder to keep secret, their behavior. If things are going well, if they are upbeat, happy, treating you well, then you can be fairly certain they still are in contact. They are getting their drug and are not edgy or anxious like a junkie in withdrawal. If they are no longer in contact, or not regularly, then you'd expect more of a rollercoaster of emotions, mostly finding annoyance or irritation towards you, or cold distant emotionless towards you, the warden, the strict parent forbidding the true lovers from seeing or talking to each other.

When it's reached the level you are at now, rarely does it work out in the end. She has dragged it out too long, you have put up with it too long. If you would have clamped down hard on her on day one, it would have been more likely she would have bolted and started divorcing you, but by the same token, it would have been more likely that she would have refrained from contact, starting to detach from him, and back to you. The way it sits now, typically it will take her too much time to process back towards you from him.

It's like when your life changes, let's say, like resigning from one company and job to go get hired by another. Day one, it's all new, you still think a lot about your old job, you have some feelings, and gradually you get used to the new job and the old job is hardly ever on your mind. I had all of my wife's messages and she wasn't thinking about me at all. Of course, we had kids, had to schedule events, coordinate chores and finances, all that stuff, but the emotional feeling was no more than if I was her man-servant, her brother, her roommate - somewhere in between those things. All emotional and romance was invested with affair partner. And my wife never said anything bad about me. She didn't villainize me, like many do. When I caught her, she never blamed me except for not giving enough attention, and even that she was half-hearted in her blaming. Yours did villainize you. But trust me, the first thoughts your wife woke up to every day was her lover, probably sent a message "good morning honey" and the last thoughts she went to sleep with every night was her lover, probably sent a message "sweet dreams baby." And in between times, too, breaks in work, even sitting with you watching TV and commercials come on, she thought of him.

I'm just trying to give you what is taking so long for her to come around. I think because you have no kids and she probably has no finance problems if she leaves you, that doesn't even bring her back, though, to be honest, cheating wives in love rarely put much emphasis on kids or finances. Probably the number one worry of cheating wives is reputation. Cheating wives do not want to be a cheater, a homewrecker, ****, *****. That's number one most times I can see. There was an affair partner, a single woman, who posted here the other day, and she was very worried about not being seen to being at fault, or at least not being the only one significantly at fault. Does that remind you of your wife? It's very important for your wife not to be seen as at fault, or at not to be seen as the only one who was significantly at fault. If they had courses on cheating, this would be a chapter in the textbook. Men and women are the same in some cheating issues, but different in others. Not 100%, but I'd say 80-85%. Think of a bll curve, if you know what that is.

I hope your wife starts getting it, because I think that's what you want. I think the best way to do it is to tell her what your dealbreakers are, keep it simple, big-picture, and few, like "No contact, Honesty in past, present, and future, Transparency, and Accountability." How you want that done is up to you. But whatever it is, stick to it, give her a short time to make a decision, I think less than an hour would be needed, then if she doesn't agree, start moving forward in your life without her. If she decides to meet your requests later, it's up to you if you want to go backwards, but after you do that, within a week, if it takes longer than that for her to come to her senses, you will probably be mentally gone and won't want her anymore. This paragraph is basically what I see happens at the start of a successful reconciliation. The minutiae doesn't matter so much as the big items being met. The longer it takes, the less likely it will ever happen. I don't know if you are familiar with "event risk," but that is part of why the longer the time, the less likely it works. More people get involved like therapists and friends and families and the affair partner and unforeseen issues pop up to complicate the situation and make it more difficult to navigate.

Divorce is easy. It's just a legal contract, settling of assets and liabilities, it's just money, and the lawyers do the work, you make a few decisions as to which assets or liabilities you want to keep or sell, and sign at the dotted line. You don't have to even talk to your wife once during the process. Maybe there's a few non-money items like pets or cherished items. But really it's so much quicker and easier than reconciliation. My observation is that reconciliation never ends, at best maybe it becomes like a scar that only bothers you every so often, but it's like a long-term rehabiliation problem for at least a year or so, with setbacks now and then.

Think about divorce and how your wife is now. Think about what you have asked. Not very much. Nothing really. Zero. The fact that your wife should not have a boyfriend and your wife should be honest is a given in marriage. It's not really a negotiable item, it's something that's needed for any successful marriage - don't have boyfriends and be honest to each other. Yet now you are negotiating truth. She doesn't want to give you truth. She doesn't think you should have that. Really think about that. Faceless humanless companies that merge have to tell each other the truth of the past and present in order to merge together, your wife thinks you should try a marriage without it. It really boggles the mind.


----------



## Robert22205

She has to do more than just 'fix' herself. 

Because she lied and destroyed your trust, she now has to make you 'feel' safe going forward - which is based on whatever you need (i.e., it's not driven by her). This requirement is one of the few consequences of her inappropriate behavior with the OM.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> You can't catch them unless they are really bad at it, or unlucky. Their passion for being "in love" with each other also helps them get caught, i.e., they can't help themselves and takes too many risks.
> 
> No matter how they do it, they need time and space. As you saw, last time you were aware, I believe, she was on the phone for 40 minutes during a car ride. So she needs space away from you, and really most cheaters don't need 40 minutes to talk, they send very short messages with no substance other than "can't wait to sex you" or "miss you so much" or "send me a pic of your breasts" or juvenile stuff like that.
> 
> Once you caught them once, it's pretty easy to see if they are still in touch. One, still attached to the phone, guarding the phone, taking it with them even in the bathroom, leaving it screen face-down, even sleeping with it under the pillow. Second, and harder to keep secret, their behavior. If things are going well, if they are upbeat, happy, treating you well, then you can be fairly certain they still are in contact. They are getting their drug and are not edgy or anxious like a junkie in withdrawal. If they are no longer in contact, or not regularly, then you'd expect more of a rollercoaster of emotions, mostly finding annoyance or irritation towards you, or cold distant emotionless towards you, the warden, the strict parent forbidding the true lovers from seeing or talking to each other.
> 
> When it's reached the level you are at now, rarely does it work out in the end. She has dragged it out too long, you have put up with it too long. If you would have clamped down hard on her on day one, it would have been more likely she would have bolted and started divorcing you, but by the same token, it would have been more likely that she would have refrained from contact, starting to detach from him, and back to you. The way it sits now, typically it will take her too much time to process back towards you from him.
> 
> It's like when your life changes, let's say, like resigning from one company and job to go get hired by another. Day one, it's all new, you still think a lot about your old job, you have some feelings, and gradually you get used to the new job and the old job is hardly ever on your mind. I had all of my wife's messages and she wasn't thinking about me at all. Of course, we had kids, had to schedule events, coordinate chores and finances, all that stuff, but the emotional feeling was no more than if I was her man-servant, her brother, her roommate - somewhere in between those things. All emotional and romance was invested with affair partner. And my wife never said anything bad about me. She didn't villainize me, like many do. When I caught her, she never blamed me except for not giving enough attention, and even that she was half-hearted in her blaming. Yours did villainize you. But trust me, the first thoughts your wife woke up to every day was her lover, probably sent a message "good morning honey" and the last thoughts she went to sleep with every night was her lover, probably sent a message "sweet dreams baby." And in between times, too, breaks in work, even sitting with you watching TV and commercials come on, she thought of him.
> 
> I'm just trying to give you what is taking so long for her to come around. I think because you have no kids and she probably has no finance problems if she leaves you, that doesn't even bring her back, though, to be honest, cheating wives in love rarely put much emphasis on kids or finances. Probably the number one worry of cheating wives is reputation. Cheating wives do not want to be a cheater, a homewrecker, *, **. That's number one most times I can see. There was an affair partner, a single woman, who posted here the other day, and she was very worried about not being seen to being at fault, or at least not being the only one significantly at fault. Does that remind you of your wife? It's very important for your wife not to be seen as at fault, or at not to be seen as the only one who was significantly at fault. If they had courses on cheating, this would be a chapter in the textbook. Men and women are the same in some cheating issues, but different in others. Not 100%, but I'd say 80-85%. Think of a bll curve, if you know what that is.
> 
> I hope your wife starts getting it, because I think that's what you want. I think the best way to do it is to tell her what your dealbreakers are, keep it simple, big-picture, and few, like "No contact, Honesty in past, present, and future, Transparency, and Accountability." How you want that done is up to you. But whatever it is, stick to it, give her a short time to make a decision, I think less than an hour would be needed, then if she doesn't agree, start moving forward in your life without her. If she decides to meet your requests later, it's up to you if you want to go backwards, but after you do that, within a week, if it takes longer than that for her to come to her senses, you will probably be mentally gone and won't want her anymore. This paragraph is basically what I see happens at the start of a successful reconciliation. The minutiae doesn't matter so much as the big items being met. The longer it takes, the less likely it will ever happen. I don't know if you are familiar with "event risk," but that is part of why the longer the time, the less likely it works. More people get involved like therapists and friends and families and the affair partner and unforeseen issues pop up to complicate the situation and make it more difficult to navigate.
> 
> Divorce is easy. It's just a legal contract, settling of assets and liabilities, it's just money, and the lawyers do the work, you make a few decisions as to which assets or liabilities you want to keep or sell, and sign at the dotted line. You don't have to even talk to your wife once during the process. Maybe there's a few non-money items like pets or cherished items. But really it's so much quicker and easier than reconciliation. My observation is that reconciliation never ends, at best maybe it becomes like a scar that only bothers you every so often, but it's like a long-term rehabiliation problem for at least a year or so, with setbacks now and then.
> 
> Think about divorce and how your wife is now. Think about what you have asked. Not very much. Nothing really. Zero. The fact that your wife should not have a boyfriend and your wife should be honest is a given in marriage. It's not really a negotiable item, it's something that's needed for any successful marriage - don't have boyfriends and be honest to each other. Yet now you are negotiating truth. She doesn't want to give you truth. She doesn't think you should have that. Really think about that. Faceless humanless companies that merge have to tell each other the truth of the past and present in order to merge together, your wife thinks you should try a marriage without it. It really boggles the mind.


Great post, thanks very much for this. I certainly noticed in the weeks leading to me discovering the affair the behaviors you described above regarding the phone was there. I am just thankful that I was able to get on the once device that was forgotten about. Otherwise I would still be doing the pick me dance try to re win her love while I never knew about the OM.


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Great post, thanks very much for this. I certainly noticed in the weeks leading to me discovering the affair the behaviors you described above regarding the phone was there. I am just thankful that I was able to get on the once device that was forgotten about. Otherwise I would still be doing the pick me dance try to re win her love while I never knew about the OM.


With respect, you kind of seem to be doing the pick me dance now. Has something changed? 

Because if you were not doing the pick me dance you would have filed for divorce or had her poly graphed by now. Or at least you would be making plans for a poly graph...


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## hinterdir

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I agree sexting videos is as close to physical as you can get, telling another man you love him while tell me you love me is worse than sex. And yes, she met him in person 4 work trips, but claims in 2019 and early 2020 it was just "flirting". But i do have a number of red flags from the work trips, like ghosting for an evening calling me the next morning.
> 
> She did also admit that they went out on "group" dinners while on work trips. But never alone. But when she was on these trips she would also say she was gong for dinner with coworkers that I knew from her company. (The other MAN works for a different company on a joint project). But her omission of never telling me on the trips that they where doing group dinner and being very specific bout going out with coworkers I knew leads me to believe they did go on "dates"


lol,
Having a spouse who travels for work....especially with the opposite sex...I don't know how you guys do it.
I wouldn't have married a person who travels.
If a job came up that had travel....turn it down or quit and change jobs.
If they take the job anyway and start a life of traveling without their spouse......divorce.

I have read so many of these on here where the spouse is always out of town.
Even if God himself told me my spouse would never cheat or do anything inappropriate I'd still nix it or divorce because I do not want to live that way...wife gone all the time, her job dictating if and when we can be together...eating dinner all the time...with people other than your family.
Nope, couldn't do that.
You even being married to this person while she was traveling.....before anything started going bad would have already been a deal breaker.
I do not know if you married her knowing travel was part of her job or this came about after and you just accepted it as a normal part of life.
Bit ya in the ass though didn't it?


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## sokillme

Just remember when someone cheats on you, you can always do better.

You need to accept that if someone cheats on you they really don't love you. They can say the do but their actions prove otherwise. Why anyone would want to waste their life who treated them like **** and doesn't love them is beyond me. History is not a good enough reason in my mind.

Never love anyone enough to allow them to abuse you. Life is way to short.


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## Beach123

When someone leaves out information that you need to know to understand the full situation - that’s lying. Lying by omission is still a lie.

and people lie by omission because they are guilty.

when there is nothing to hide - people hide nothing.

there’s no reason to stay with anyone that’s this sneaky. You can never trust them.


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## drifting on

Chicago

It’s now Monday morning and I’m hoping you have taken the posters advice to heart. I hope you have a plan which is currently being executed. Your wife, yep, the one you loved and never saw an affair coming, has placed you in harms way. Great way to treat the one you love, eh? Know this, she doesn’t love you, she loves OM and has thought of a future with him as they have played house together on business trips. Know that your wife didn’t place the one she loves in harms way, she’s protecting her OM. To the posters here it’s a huge billboard that we can all see, you can’t. What I’m saying isn’t your fault in any way, the only fault you have is if you nothing.

For now you are in shock, a bomb went off and it’s still to hazy to see the damage done. When the haze clears, you will only have the plan you have thought of. This plan better be firm in your mind, because the pain you will feel could have you trying to change it. You’re feeling pain now, but the real pain is when the haze clears and you see the extent of the damage. Your brain is actually protecting you right now, contrary to what you are thinking. At this time your wife will probably begin her attempts to save anything she can, if you have executed your plan. Her fog will clear faster the harder you hit, if you keep hitting repeatedly, and she finally feel the consequences you’ve been giving. 

Currently your wife is doing two huge ways of protecting her world. The first is deflection, by this she blames you for everything wrong, says you are controlling, says your wrongs caused her to choose the way she did. Now this should have provoked you to respond with rage, but instead you tried to fix your wrongs. Again, not your fault, nobody told you that a war had started. But by now you should be feeling rage. The second way is by protecting OM, saying they went out in groups, they only talked, when it was much worse. Not giving you a timeline is protecting OM, not taking a polygraph is protecting OM. 

As you can hopefully see, your wife is not remorseful, doesn’t even sound like she cares she got caught, but I only have your posts to go on. I guess I’m really hoping that @No Longer Lonely Husband has gotten through to you that action needs to be taken.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

Can you say blame shifting? Typical cheaterspeak.


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## Beach123

Why would you consider staying when she definitely isn’t showing you loving and respectful behavior?

this is who she is...!!


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## TDSC60

The love you feel is for the woman you thought she was. That woman is no longer the same woman you are now married to. She has changed into a woman who is fine with emotional and probably physical cheating.
I traveled for work for years and have seen this play out multiple times. There is a chance it was not physical, but that is a very low probability. They definitely bonded emotionally and 99% of the time that leads to physical cheating given the opportunity.

Given her lies and deception, you need to assume she cheated physically and move forward with that in mind.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Tomorrow marks the 5 week mark from D-Day and this coming weekend will mark 5 weeks of separation

Not much to update in the last week. We have not spoken in several days. I am detaching, which is good. I am reflecting on not only on the weeks leading up to the serration but the entire 14 year relationship and noticing many things I would rather not live with

For me the action of the affair was damaging, but her reaction after discovery is possible more damaging. Its been nearly 5 weeks since I confronted her and there has been 0 effort to seek forgiveness, accept blame, show remorse, make me feel any better. I think that is almost a bigger slap in the face. Shows what she cares about

My plan going forward is to divorce unless proven otherwise. As I have told other members via DM we are still in nearly a full lock-down here so I am unable to meet with a lawyer but have discussed over the phone. Once we open back up which should be hopefully later this month I will start taking action. Until then i am 180 and keeping myself busy 

Thank-you everyone for your thoughts , advice and motivation during this difficult time. It has truly been a life saver


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## PreRaph

Very good Chicagohusband2. It seems that you have come around and are doing what you have to do to deal with an unremorseful cheating spouse. If there were a better way we'd tell you, but reconciliation relies on the wayward spouse to own up to what they have done. I'm glad you realize that and realize further that your wife has done no such thing as own up to her behavior and what it has done to you or to your family.


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## Marc878

Clarity comes with time. Nothing like seeing the whole big picture.


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## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> For me the action of the affair was damaging, but her reaction after discovery is possible more damaging.


This is almost always the case.


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## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> My plan going forward is to divorce unless proven otherwise.


The cheaters don't usually show any remorse until the betrayed is ready to leave, e.g., filing for divorce. Many times the cheater gets a little desperate to save the marriage after the betrayed no longer wants the marriage. Probably she's still contacting other man regularly, so I think it less likely in your case. If she is still in contact with other man regularly, then she'll joyfully tell other man that she's free and can be with him openly full time, and then when she realizes other man doesn't want her full time, that's when she'll get desperate to get the marriage back. Few betrayed are willing by that point.


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## OutofRetirement

Have you been checking her social media? Is she still posting all her fun life there?


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## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> Have you been checking her social media? Is she still posting all her fun life there?


Yes, sure is. even more than before which has caused casual friends to reach out to ask where is, as the house she is living is much different than our marital home. Which is a good opportunity for me to fill them in on what has happened.


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## Marc878

Good.

A lot try to hide it for some reason. Just tell them you didn’t like her new boyfriend, etc.

If she try’s love bombing once she realizes you’re dumping her it’ll only be for self protection And short term.

She’s already shown you who she’s is. You'd be wise to remember that.


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## Marc878

They can all change for a short time.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Marc878 said:


> Good.
> 
> A lot try to hide it for some reason. Just tell them you didn’t like her new boyfriend, etc.
> 
> If she try’s love bombing once she realizes you’re dumping her it’ll only be for self protection And short term.
> 
> She’s already shown you who she’s is. You'd be wise to remember that.


What does love bombing look like?


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> What does love bombing look like?



A large increase in "I love yous" and other tokens of affection 
A large increase in the amount of touching, longing gazes, etc
A large increase in amount, variety, and quality of sex
Things that used to be a problem are suddenly not a problem
Things are suddenly light, easygoing, you can have things however you want them
All of her attention is suddenly on you


----------



## faithfulman

Marduk said:


> A large increase in "I love yous" and other tokens of affection
> A large increase in the amount of touching, longing gazes, etc
> A large increase in amount, variety, and quality of sex
> Things that used to be a problem are suddenly not a problem
> Things are suddenly light, easygoing, you can have things however you want them
> All of her attention is suddenly on you


+ all that freaky stuff she always held out on is not only on the table, it is freely given with a smile and enthusiasm.


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## Beach123

If you know what attorney you will use - have them send you the paperwork in the mail - it takes a LOT to fill them out - and you can get a head start on it while you’re on lockdown. Then call and ask them questions if needed while filling out that paperwork.
They can send them back to you for a signature after you review the papers. Then file them!

she isn’t the wife you ever THOUGHT she WAS. The reality of who she actually is remains to be seen. Heck, 15 years after my 27 year marriage ended I still have times where I rethink about a scene that happened during our marriage and I go HMMMM, well that wasn’t right - he was up to something shady...

And then I realize it’s not worth my time and energy wondering/reliving that scenario. I just don’t care anymore. And he remarried - of course - he likes being married (his words) - but of course while he likes being married he just has NO IDEA how to be a faithful husband! And I can see very clearly the times when he’s cheating on his new wife. He just does certain things that give him away.

and I’m SO glad it’s not me he is cheating on anymore!
So he hasn’t changed. He did tell me a year ago he wished we were still married 🙄😮he’s just delusional and thinks any woman should be glad to have him - as he is gods gift to women, ya know? 🤮

so good riddance - I should have divorced him sooner! But I will make him pay my spousal support until I die - I have no reason to let him off easy - and he owes it to me - given all the peace of mind he stole from me for 27 years!
So time goes by and I’m more thankful to have divorced him every day/year!


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## Robert22205

_*For me the action of the affair was damaging, but her reaction after discovery is possible more damaging. Its been nearly 5 weeks since I confronted her and there has been 0 effort to seek forgiveness, accept blame, show remorse, make me feel any better. I think that is almost a bigger slap in the face. Shows what she cares about *_

To extend the notion of focusing on her behavior vs her words: when someone shows you 'who' they are - believe them. Her lack of action screams louder than words.

I know you had your hopes up. You made it very clear what you needed from her. I'm sorry you didn't see any sign of remorse for betraying you and destroying her marriage; nor any effort to rebuild your trust or to fix herself. 

Continue to distance yourself from her. Do not respond to any texts fishing for information. Distancing is to protect yourself (not to punish her) so you can heal and move on with your life.


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## OutofRetirement

_*Love bombing is an attempt to influence a person by demonstrations of attention and affection. It can be used in different ways and can be used for either a positive or negative purpose*_.

Members of the Unification Church of the United States (who coined the expression) use it to convey a genuine expression of friendship, fellowship, interest, or concern.[1] Psychologists have identified love bombing as a possible part of a cycle of abuse and have warned against it. *Critics of cults*_* use the phrase with the implication that the "love" is feigned and that the practice is *_*psychological manipulation* in order to create a feeling of unity within the group against a society perceived as hostile.[2] In 2011 clinical psychologist Oliver James advocated love bombing in his book _Love Bombing: Reset Your Child's Emotional Thermostat_, as a means for parents to rectify emotional problems in their children.[3]


*Origin of the term[edit]*
The expression "love bombing" was coined by members of the Unification Church of the United States in the 1970s[4] and was also used by members of the Family International.[5][6] In 1978 Sun Myung Moon, the founder and then leader of the Unification Church, said:



> Unification Church members are smiling all of the time, even at four in the morning. The man who is full of love must live that way. When you go out witnessing you can caress the wall and say that it can expect you to witness well and be smiling when you return. What face could better represent love than a smiling face? This is why we talk about love bomb; Moonies have that kind of happy problem.[7]


Anthropology professor[8] Geri-Ann Galanti writes:



> *A basic human need is for self-esteem.... Basically [love bombing] consists of giving someone a lot of positive attention.*[9]


*Margaret Singer[edit]*
Psychology professor Margaret Singer popularized awareness of the concept.[1] In her 1996 book, _Cults in Our Midst,_ she writes:



> As soon as any interest is shown by the recruits, they may be _love bombed_ by the recruiter or other cult members. *This process of feigning friendship and interest in the recruit *was originally associated with one of the early youth cults, but soon it was taken up by a number of groups as part of their program for luring people in. Love bombing is a coordinated effort, usually under the direction of leadership, that involves long-term members' *flooding recruits and newer members with flattery, verbal seduction, affectionate but usually nonsexual touching, and lots of attention to their every remark. Love bombing – or the offer of instant companionship – is a deceptive ploy accounting for many successful recruitment drives*.[10]


*Abusive relationships[edit]*
The expression has also been used to describe the tactics *used by pimps and gang members to control their victims*,[11] as well as to describe the behavior of an *abusive narcissist who tries to win the confidence of a victim*.[12][13] Modern social media can intensify the effect of love bombing since it enables the abuser with nearly constant contact and communication with the victim.[14]

One of the signs of love bombing in the start of a relationship is much attention in short time and pressure for very rapid commitment.[15] It is often the first sign of narcissism, and if successful turns to control and degradation.[16] Psychologist Dale Archer identifies "*The Phases of Love Bombing: Idealization, Devaluation, Discard (Repeat)*." He advises: "Stop, Look, and Listen" to avoid love bombing and to break off contact with the abuser, if possible, and seek support from family and friends.[14]

*Benign occurrences[edit]*
Excessive attention and affection does not constitute love bombing if there is no intent or pattern of further abuse. Archer explains:



> *The key to understanding how love bombing differs from romantic courtship is to look at what happens next, after two people are officially a couple. If extravagant displays of affection continue indefinitely, if actions match words, and there is no devaluation phase, then it’s probably not love bombing*. That much attention might get annoying after a while, but it’s not unhealthy in and of itself.[14]


In the 2010s British author and psychologist Oliver James recommended love bombing as a technique for parents to help their troubled children. He described it as, “dedicating one-on-one time spoiling and lavishing your child with love, and, within reason, pandering to their every wish.”[17][18] A reporter for _The Daily Express_ tried the technique with her son and reported:



> It’s not rocket science that showering a child with affection will impact positively on their behaviour but what surprised me was how much my behaviour changed. Love bombing enabled me to see my child through a fresh lens, my disposition towards him softened and he seemed to bask in the glow of positive attention.[19]


*Evolutionary Psychology analysis[edit]*
Dr. Hans Breiter, a neuroscientist at Harvard University, states that "*Some people seem to be born with vulnerable dopamine systems that get hijacked by social rewards*."[20]

Geri-Ann Galanti (in a sympathetic article) writes: "*A basic human need is for self-esteem*. . . . Basically [love bombing] consists of giving someone a lot of positive attention." [21]

Keith Henson has attempted to explain in evolutionary psychology terms how love bombing works. It is based on the idea that the brain evolved in a social context and that *attention from others acts as a reward for reasons rooted in stone age evolution*.



> "It should come as no surprise that this powerful reward mechanism can be taken over by drug-induced rewards, but this is not the only way the brain reward system can be hijacked. Memes . . . which manifest as cults and related social movements have "discovered" the brain's reward system as well. Successful cult memes induce intense social interaction behavior between cult members. This trips the attention detectors. Tripping the detectors causes the release of reward chemicals . . . . Anyone who has ever had the feeling of being higher than a kite after giving a public speech is well aware of the effects of attention.[22]


*See also[edit]*

Abusive power and control
Brainwashing
Honey trapping
Flattery
Love Jihad
Superficial charm
*References[edit]*

^ Jump up to:_*a*_ _*b*_ Richardson, James T. (2004). _Regulating Religion: Case Studies from Around the Globe_. Springer. ISBN 0-306-47887-0. p. 479
*^* Dennis Tourish and Tim Wohlforth, _On the Edge: Political Cults Right and Left_, Armonk, NY: M.E. Sharpe, 2000, page 19.
*^* All you need is love bombing, _The Guardian_, September 21, 2012
*^* "1999 Testimony of Ronald N. Loomis to the Maryland Cult Task Force". Archived from the original on 2004-08-18.
*^* "Eyewitness: Why people join cults". _BBC News_. March 24, 2000. Retrieved January 5, 2010.
*^* "The Children of God: The Inside Story".
*^* "Sun Myung Moon (1978) "We Who Have Been Called To Do God's Work" Speech in London, England".
*^* California State University profile Archived 2002-06-17 at the Wayback Machine
*^* Langone, Michael, _Recovery from Cults_, 1995, W. W. Norton & Company, ISBN 0-393-31321-2, Chapter 3 - Reflections on "Brainwashing", Geri-Ann Galanti
*^* Singer, Margaret (1996; 2003) _Cults in Our Midst._ Revised edition, 2003. Wiley. ISBN 0-7879-6741-6
*^* _Gangs and Girls: Understanding Juvenile Prostitution_, Michel Dorais, Patrice Corriveau, McGill-Queen's Press - MQUP, Jan 1, 2009, page 38
_*^*_* Red Flag of a Narcissist #1: Love Bombing Archived 2015-08-23 at the Wayback Machine; *_*My Narcissistic Ex-Husband*_
*^* "Helen Bailey murder trial: Ian Stewart 'grossly deceived' author". _BBC News Online_. BBC. 16 February 2017. Retrieved 22 February 2017.
*^ Jump up to:a b c Dale Archer, The manipulative partner’s most devious tactic, Psychology Today, March 6, 2017*
*^* Lindsay Dodgson, what is love bombing?, Business Insider, July 30, 2017
*^* *Brittany Wong, Nine signs you are in love with a narcisist, Huffington Post, March 30, 2017*
*^* Love bombing kids to get happy results, _The Daily Telegraph_, February 22, 2011.
*^* 'Love bombing' reminds parents how much fun it is to be with kids, _The Australian_, March 2, 2013.
*^* It took one day to change my son’s bad behaviour, _The Daily Express_, June 30, 2011.
*^* *Quoted in Hijacking the Brain Circuits With a Nickel Slot Machine By SANDRA BLAKESLEE, New York Times February 19, 2002*.
*^* Recovery from Cults
*^* From _Sex, Drugs, and Cults.__ An evolutionary psychology perspective on why and how cult memes get a drug-like hold on people, and what might be done to mitigate the effects_, The Human Nature Review 2002 Volume 2: 343–355


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> thanks. The last two days I have done the 180 it’s a complete shift for her. Acting like a
> Sad puppy dog, constantly trying to connect. Probabably how I was acting on the weeks prior. Not sure if this is a further sign of guilt??


People typically refer to this as love bombing. On top of "trying to connect," usually the cheating wife is very sexually aggressive (when in the marriage, they didn't initiate as much as the husband, and even when they initiated, they were easily dissuaded).

It seems she tried, and you shut her down, so that was that. For then. Maybe she'll try again after you file. Then again, maybe only after other man dumps her or she realizes he's not who she thought he was.


----------



## Marc878

Many try and see what they want to see in these situations versus what is. All that does is keep you in limbo and delay dealing with the inevitable.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

OutofRetirement said:


> People typically refer to this as love bombing. On top of "trying to connect," usually the cheating wife is very sexually aggressive (when in the marriage, they didn't initiate as much as the husband, and even when they initiated, they were easily dissuaded).
> 
> It seems she tried, and you shut her down, so that was that. For then. Maybe she'll try again after you file. Then again, maybe only after other man dumps her or she realizes he's not who she thought he was.


Us not living together or seeing each other would make this very difficult. But I am sure she will try


----------



## colingrant

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Us not living together or seeing each other would make this very difficult. *But I am sure she will try*


She will try If she feels she's losing control or losing you and doesn't want to. Right now, she's showing no signs of being close to this. Desperation and urgency leads to love bombing. She's not there and it's possible she never gets there because she doesn't care. 

This could change, but her actions and willingness to remain separate and with limited to no contact, has not fazed her in the least. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if she's reading these posts. Wayward spouses seeking urgently to reconcile don't adhere to 3-4 weeks of separation without feeling the overwhelming need be under the same roof. 

Her willingness to give you space, was disingenuous in that it gave her the opportunity to continue with the affair, but pretending it was her graciousness to provide you the space. 

Her knee jerk reaction when you removed her from the home was a frantic state, until she remembered what being away from home will enable her to do. She's a slick one, but one thing about infidelity sites, you can't out slick a team who's been there and done that.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Us not living together or seeing each other would make this very difficult. But I am sure she will try


No, it really is not. Letters, texts, facebook messenger, apps, snail mail, phone calls, sudden appearnces near you, gifts and on and on and on.

it is easer now than any time in existence IMO.
This is why people are warning you. Her current actions are more important than anything that occurs when you have her served. When you were trying to win her back she was worried about your paycheck and making sure you reconciled under her rules. Also, she chose her freedom (sarcasm) to talk to anyone and privacy over your marriage. She needed space and moved on, you need to do the same.


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Us not living together or seeing each other would make this very difficult. But I am sure she will try


Be prepared if she shows up in a raincoat with nothing on underneath it.


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## colingrant

Marc878 said:


> Be prepared if she shows up in a raincoat with nothing on underneath it.


😂😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Chicagohusband2020

Marc878 said:


> Be prepared if she shows up in a raincoat with nothing on underneath it.


That is a dream of mine! would take everything in me to resist


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> That is a dream of mine! would take everything in me to resist


And it's still something you can have.

I just suggest you have it with someone else when this is all over.


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## Affaircare

@Chicagohusband2020 

Just bear in mind it would probably NOT look like what you're imagining, and probably look more like this:


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> That is a dream of mine! would take everything in me to resist


Nah, just think of her boyfriends spoor left behind.


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## Evinrude58

You’ve been given good advice.
the ilybinilwy is what you need to know.

she’s TOLDyou everr Er thing you need to know. Wanting y to I confront her with a picture? This isn’t the frame of mind you need to be in.

the frame of mind that will help you out of a very painful existenceis one of:
I’m seeing a lawyer, I’m getting a better job if needed, I’m finding out how I will live when single, etc.

start exercizing a lot if you aren’t. It was the only thing that helped me.

learn how to avoid picking a woman of low character. Still no guarantees.

it’s not your fault thus happened.
No matter what, the cheating us what ended your marriage. It’s been over for a while.

very, very sorry. Change your state of mind. Youneed to be past confrontation and get into moving forward with life after a divorce. Whether you want it or not, it’s coming.
Make it on the best terns possible.
tip: divorce fast and use her desire to be with OM to your advantage. She’ll want out quick and likely give you a fair deal, or as fair as it ever will be.

keeo waiting and the longer she has to develop HER exit plan, the worse off you’ll be.


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## Beach123

I notice she isn’t (still isn’t) saying “I’m so sorry I did this to you and I’ll never contact that OM again!”

notice she isn’t saying she is willing do do anything to repair that damage SHE has done to damage the marriage?

notice she isn’t changing to become a better/more honest person with integrity so you may be capable of someday trusting her IF she gets consistent/reliable?

ya... she’s not making effort. She wants your paycheck - she made that clear in the early days. She’s also not very smart!
She’s used you! When are you gonna tell her to take a permanent hike?


----------



## farsidejunky

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> What does love bombing look like?


Showing up at your door at 3 AM wearing a long coat and nothing on underneath. 

ETA: I see Marc beat me to that. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

Marduk said:


> A large increase in "I love yous" and other tokens of affection
> A large increase in the amount of touching, longing gazes, etc
> A large increase in amount, variety, and quality of sex
> Things that used to be a problem are suddenly not a problem
> Things are suddenly light, easygoing, you can have things however you want them
> All of her attention is suddenly on you


This.

It is manipulation, and designed to charm you into backing off from demands. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

Chicago:

You made a pretty declarative statement about your intent to divorce. 

That said, I get the impression that a hint of remorse would be enough for you to reconsider. 

Let me ask you a simple question:

When you look back over these last five weeks, when you have essentially been hoping and praying for some sort of a lifeline from her...how have you felt about the person staring at you in the mirror? Have you even thought about that?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Beach123

farsidejunky said:


> This.
> 
> It is manipulation, and designed to charm you into backing off from demands.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Yep, her paying attention to you now is simply manipulation.

IF she consistently showed compassion and consistency to your feelings for a solid year - then MAYBE consider taking her back... but seriously - she’s not considering how she has harmed you and the marriage - so give her the boot so you can find a woman who’s worthy and kind to you!


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## Andy1001

I don’t mean this in an aggressive or dismissive manner but it’s painfully obvious that if the op’s wife came back tomorrow he would welcome her with open arms.
He seems incapable of making a decision and he’s blinded by his feelings for his wife.
I think some of the people advising him to divorce (including myself) need to back off and let people who have reconciled with a cheating partner advice him instead.
He’s going to need all the support he can get.


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## Marc878

You’d be living life on her terms. Which means you’ll get a repeat. How’d you like to go through this again? You change nothing, nothing changes.


----------



## MattMatt

You need an honest, loving partner. Sadly I am not sure your wife can ever be that type of person.


----------



## TDSC60

Chicago,

I traveled for work for almost 15 years. We had 5 national teams consisting of about 5 to 10 people each. These team got together for conferences and meetings to discuss projects about 4 sometimes 6 times per year. Sometimes we were all at the same hotel (one were we rented conference space) or different hotels near the site of a project. But always close enough for a short ride.

I was witness to what you are going through many times as I saw at least 5 married couples hook up over the years at meetings. One couple in particular reminded me of your wife and OM. Both were married and lived about 1,000 miles apart. Only seeing each other in person at the conferences and meetings. It became obvious what was going on as they would come to group dinners together and meet in the hotel bars after the work day with the others, then they would disappear together before the end of the evening.

He was a member of my team, she was on a team in another area of the country. But we all knew each other. They became the object of discussion and gossip among the rest of us. They eventually both divorced their unsuspecting spouses and married. He had two kids, she had none. His divorce was messy and drawn out with child custody battles for over a year. But that did not stop them.

You say you want "positive" proof of sex. The ILYBANILWY statement out of the blue, asking for space, and her ghosting you in the evening only to resume contact with you the next morning is proof enough to me based on what I observed. I saw this first hand many times with a few different couples and it was always the same.

So make a decision about your future based on the probability that your wife did have sex with the OM, that she is in love with him, that she no longer loves you (she told you this - believe her) and really does not respect you, that she really wants to be with him, that all she is unsure of is how they can build a future together. She is thinking about what she wants (him) and how she can be with him. Your welfare is not even a blip on her radar screen at this time.

I know you still love her but that does not change the way she feels. It is not a consideration for her. Her focus is on him. Based on what you have said, she is not ready for and does not want an R with you.


----------



## Gabriel

Andy1001 said:


> I don’t mean this in an aggressive or dismissive manner but it’s painfully obvious that if the op’s wife came back tomorrow he would welcome her with open arms.
> He seems incapable of making a decision and he’s blinded by his feelings for his wife.
> I think some of the people advising him to divorce (including myself) need to back off and let people who have reconciled with a cheating partner advice him instead.
> He’s going to need all the support he can get.


I disagree. He is 70/30 on the divorce train, at least. And the longer this goes, the higher the 70 becomes. He's realizing who his wife really is. Is there a possibility this turns back the other way? Sure. There usually is, but Chicago's momentum is moving toward the D train. He has ghosted her for a week now, as many here have advised. He says he is filing once his lockdown is over.

Chicago, just stay strong here. Nothing less than a total and complete breakdown of your wife, with bawling, snot bubbles coming out of her nose, should sway you even one inch here. If you cave in to anything less than that, you will be setting yourself up for a brutal remaining marriage with no self-respect.


----------



## Chaparral

I think her problem is there is no way for her to work it out long term with her boyfriend. They’re 2000 miles apart. That’s why you got the ILUBNILWU speech in the first place. He won’t move and she cant either.
If he would move to your area would she be wanting to reconcile? Can you see her moving to wherever he lives?
All of a sudden she figures this out and wants to reconcile?
Almost universally, when a woman has a sexual affair, she changes her sexual behavior with her husband. Did you notice this? Did it get better or worse?
What about the future, has she promised not go on more work trips?


----------



## Andy1001

Gabriel said:


> I disagree. He is 70/30 on the divorce train, at least. And the longer this goes, the higher the 70 becomes. He's realizing who his wife really is. Is there a possibility this turns back the other way? Sure. There usually is, but Chicago's momentum is moving toward the D train. He has ghosted her for a week now, as many here have advised. He says he is filing once his lockdown is over.
> 
> Chicago, just stay strong here. Nothing less than a total and complete breakdown of your wife, with bawling, snot bubbles coming out of her nose, should sway you even one inch here. If you cave in to anything less than that, you will be setting yourself up for a brutal remaining marriage with no self-respect.


I would have been in agreement right up until post 571. He is still in love with his wife and this post more than any other proves it, at least to me.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, get the two books in my signature and it will well worth your effort.


----------



## sokillme

Andy1001 said:


> I don’t mean this in an aggressive or dismissive manner but it’s painfully obvious that if the op’s wife came back tomorrow he would welcome her with open arms.
> He seems incapable of making a decision and he’s blinded by his feelings for his wife.
> I think some of the people advising him to divorce (including myself) need to back off and let people who have reconciled with a cheating partner advice him instead.
> He’s going to need all the support he can get.


Ironically this is probably part of the reason she felt entitled enough to cheat. How many guys who worship their wives like they can do no wrong and have almost magic like thinking about them get cheated on. Lots and lots.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> marks the 5 week mark from D-Day and this coming weekend will mark 5 weeks of separation
> 
> I am reflecting on ... the entire 14 year relationship and noticing *many things I would rather not live with*
> 
> there has been 0 effort to seek forgiveness, accept blame, show remorse, make me feel any better. I think that is almost a bigger slap in the face. Shows what she cares about
> 
> My plan going forward is to divorce unless proven otherwise. i am 180 and keeping myself busy.


What are the things you would rather not live with (pre-affair)?

She is posting her fun times, you've said. Does she work from home now? What kind of fun? Hiking and such? Bars and restaurants are closed. You know her past social media - was she genuine or phony on there? And now? I have heard quite a few cheaters started posting sayings and memes about romance and men that underline their feelings about the situation. Have you seen anything like that from her? I also know some guys would search out their wives music playlist. Inevitably, the song lyrics would involve pining for unremitted love (mostly that) or involve making a mistake to lose a partner (less likely).

You have been together 16 years, I think. I think you said you have been together our entire adulthood. Which puts you under 35. You don't mention your parents, or hers, or any siblings. Do they know? Have they tried to move it forward at all? What's your take on her side? They know you since you were a kid, really. You've treated their daughter and sister well. I would think that at least one of them would make contact and see what you have to say. Nothing?

Your wife blamed you for your faults and you agreed. Have you thought about what was accurate and what was not? Any improvements on your real faults?


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## Beach123

Honestly, I think she wants both. She wants to be on her own often enough to flirt and play with her OM at HER leisure - or when he can be close enough that they can meet. AND she wants you to be her doormat husband waiting around for her while she plays with her OM... as long as she gets the money you earn and she can live a lifestyle she’s used to... she will want to stay married - UNTIL her OM becomes more available.

you see you’re depending on a decision she makes - and she is waiting on a decision her OM makes... so you are far removed from the actual person controlling all of this. The OM is in charge! As your wife is at the mercy of what he may or may not decide to do.

you really want to be at the mercy of HER OM? You really want to be her plan B? You really want to be HER doormat? 

Those are the real questions you need to ask yourself!


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Well after nearly 10 full days of no contact I got this text tonight,

WW
“
Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG. 
You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday. 

Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me? 
What’s going on?”


----------



## Beach123

When are you actually taking action and filing for divorce?
She’s so passive aggressive!


----------



## colingrant

Good job Chicago. You lost some ground two weekends ago following your last meetup, but you've reclaimed some of it over the last two weeks. I don't have an opinion on whether or how you should respond.

I do however, have an opinion what to think about. Should she unexpectedly show up at your door, be prepared for that entire scenario. How will you respond initially..... I'm talking everything.... your disposition, body and facial language, your courtesy, how much to say and what to say. If she shows up, she'll be prepared for the meetup, but could catch you off guard.

This doesn't have to be. Prepare yourself. My two cents. Minimally, be courteous, aloof, indifferent, not much talking, some questioning and mostly listening. I'd also have a voice activated recorder handy.



> Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me?


 I should be asking you this and you should be answering me.


> What’s going on?”


 lol....You tell me. My wife has a boyfriend, and you're asking ME what's going on?


----------



## Affaircare

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well after nearly 10 full days of no contact I got this text tonight,
> 
> WW
> “
> Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG.
> You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me?
> What’s going on?”


YOU:
“Oh no I will say it straight to your face. You cheated on me. In six weeks now you’ve never once cared about the damage you did to my heart. So I am divorcing you. Is that clear enough?”

It’s kinda smartass but I had to say it


----------



## Marc878

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well after nearly 10 full days of no contact I got this text tonight,
> 
> WW
> “
> Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG.
> You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me?
> What’s going on?”


BS translator:
I've been so busy talking and sexting my boyfriend I just noticed. There is no way you could replace an entitled princess like me! We’re supposed to talk so I could gaslight and manipulate you with my charms.

So what’s up? Lil muffin is confused.


----------



## Robert22205

*Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG. *
_*You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday. 

Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me? *_
*What’s going on?” *

1 - I'm sorry she said this to you because I know you were hoping for some evidence that she was doing at least some of the things she needed to do to save her marriage - and help you heal. So far, she is not a candidate for reconciling.

I recall that you identified some things she needed to do. She refused and justified her refusal by characterizing you as 'controlling' (which btw is a typical response from cheaters). 

In order to cheat on you, she became: selfish, entitled, deceitful and lacked empathy for you. Unfortunately, she has not changed.

Her continued refusal to address your needs is evidence that she does not accept 100%: responsibility for cheating, the damage to her marriage, and betraying & hurting you.

2 - Her text failed to even acknowledge her affair or the damage she caused. Her consistent response so far is 
classic cheater strategy of: rugsweeping, minimizing the affair, and blaming you.

3 - Some thoughts on responding. If you respond to the photos and/or to schedule a meeting (or any other topic that's not directly related to her affair) - then you are encouraging her to continue her cheater strategy.

Do not play her game. You already told her what you needed (which is non negotiable). 

Consequently, the only valid reason for her to text you is to inform you that she changed her mind and to provide for a progress report (which may be complicated enough to require a face to face meeting). 

4 - If you respond, I suggest you totally ignore anything she said in her text. Consider something along the lines of: 

I was in the same marriage as you - but I didn't betray you. You betrayed me. You refuse to accept 100% responsibility for your decision to betray me. You refuse to acknowledge that you destroyed my trust and our marriage. You refuse to make me feel safe from future betrayals. You refuse to acknowledge the devastating trauma and heartbreak your betrayal caused me. The pain you caused me is disproportionate to and 1,000 times greater than any disappointments you had with me or our marriage.

Therefore, you are not a safe life partner and (unless things change) I plan to divorce you.


----------



## Nucking Futs

The only reply you send to this should be a process server with divorce papers. It's past time to harden up.


----------



## Openminded

No response necessary.


----------



## Openminded

No contact means NO contact. It’s easier to accomplish when you block them.


----------



## Kamstel2

Don’t even think of responding 
GHOST HER!


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well after nearly 10 full days of no contact I got this text tonight,
> 
> WW
> “
> Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG.
> You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me?
> What’s going on?”


You are getting all different disparate advice on how to communicate with her, or refrain from it. I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" way to do it. I personally don't believe in the silent treatment. Obviously your wife hates the silent treatment.

Her behavior has been abnormal for a marriage. She cheated on you. She lied to you. She has done nothing to fix it. She didn't contact you or push you on resolving this big problem. That is abnormal.

Your lack of pushing for resolution is abnormal, too. The silent treatment is abnormal. We are talking about a wife you've been with 16 years. To me, it sounds like you're both playing games. You can't control her, but you don't have to play games, too.

You wanted separation to figure stuff out. If you need more time, I don't see why you wouldn't tell her that. If you are done, or you want to try to stay married, I don't see why you wouldn't let her know that, too. I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish at this point. To me, I think you are avoiding it, and so is she. Imagine six months from now, a year from now, will you still be separated and not talking?

I am thinking about people I know, a brother, sister, friend, long-time co-worker, and them telling me what you posted, separation, silent treatment, and I would say the same to them. Kind of childish. I understand needing time to think, but I question people who need 5 weeks and then not respond or purposely wait a few hours or days to respond just to annoy her. I understand wanting to give her a little bit of the pain she's given you, but not if it is turning you into a weirdo.

I second Affaircare. Send this message, if that is where you're at mentally. _“You cheated on me. In six weeks now you’ve never once cared about the damage you did to my heart. So I am divorcing you.”_


----------



## OutofRetirement

My grandfather died a number of years ago. He had a brother he hadn't spoken to in years because they had an arugment and said they'd never talk until the other apologized. At the wake, the brother wasn't there. No one remembered what they argued about, only that they still didn't talk.

You have 16 years with this woman. I am quite certain that she didn't plan out some evil plot to hurt you. She is screwed up. You needed time. Whatever she's done or has become, you don't have to go down that road. I think you have to acknowledge to yourself the 15 years you've had.

What is the big picture here? How do you want to describe this 10 years from now? How you are acting now, ain't it.


----------



## Marc878

A 16 year relationship cuts both ways. It obviously didn’t mean that much to her. Especially in the aftermath of what’s gone down.

There is no perfect marriage. We’re all imperfect In ways.

OP did her imperfections cause you to cheat?

See how that works?


----------



## colingrant

I agree with out of retirement's posts and after thinking about it, a simple response could be,

*"I'm* contemplating whether *I* want to remain married to you. *I* haven't decided entirely yet, but *I* know where *I'm* leaning and *I'll *inform you when *I* do. Considering any discussion we have is predicated on *MY *decision, *I've* decided to postpone any communication until then".

This response or any portion of it, (you pick and choose if and/or what parts are appropriate), does the following. It respectfully responds to her outreach, removes any odd feelings you may have on not responding, communicates your true feelings without overstatement, is clean, concise and too the point, without emotion, but most importantly to me is it establishes control.

The control is not over her necessarily, but over this process and you personally. It's unmissable as indicative in the first person singular pronouns. There is no we in here, only I's and my's.

*I'm* contemplating if* I* want to remain married to you...*I* haven't .......
*I'm* leaning and *I'll* inform when *I* do.
Predicated on *my *decision,........*I've* decided


----------



## Tdbo

Kamstel2 said:


> Don’t even think of responding
> GHOST HER!


Prior to the GHOST, one response is necessary.
Divorce paperwork delivered to her at her place of work.
Then, GHOST away.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

If not communicating is what you need to do for YOU, then that’s what you do. She seems to think she is the one in control here.Everything is all about her.. so make sure you keep your stuff all about you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well after nearly 10 full days of no contact I got this text tonight,
> 
> WW
> “
> Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG.
> You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me?
> What’s going on?”


Give her crickets.

Let your lawyer talk to her from now on.

Then again if you don't want to be nice tell her you are embarrassed that you marred someone like her.


----------



## Beach123

I agree - IF there is ANY communication, the only thing you need to say is it’s hard to believeSHE can’t see how incredibly selfish and self centered she is... and that it’s grossly unattractive.
Hit her with those facts about herself!

and ya know, She so selfish it hasn’t even occurred to her to think at all about how YOU must be feeling! That tells you she doesn’t care!

and why do you need to care so much about her when she cares about herself enough for ten people!

maybe you are used to her self centeredness - but in my world this isn’t anyone I would EVER care to spend ANY time with!


----------



## Gabriel

Affaircare said:


> YOU:
> “Oh no I will say it straight to your face. You cheated on me. In six weeks now you’ve never once cared about the damage you did to my heart. So I am divorcing you. Is that clear enough?”
> 
> It’s kinda smartass but I had to say it


This is great. I'm a little softer than that, so I'd probably say "So I don't think there is anything here to save, and it's probably time we hire some lawyers." Leaves the door open one tiny crack, barely.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well after nearly 10 full days of no contact I got this text tonight,
> 
> WW
> “
> Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG.
> You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me?
> What’s going on?”


"What's going on is that you cheated on me and I'm assessing my options. If I want to speak to you, you'll know it. In the meantime, please don't contact me again."


----------



## drifting on

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Well after nearly 10 full days of no contact I got this text tonight,
> 
> WW
> “
> Hey, I noticed you deleted all the photos of us together on IG.
> You also haven’t reached out to reschedule our time to chat that you cancelled last Wednesday.
> 
> Are you trying to tell me something without talking to me?
> What’s going on?”




Hmmmmm...
Response 1) LOL!!!!
Response 2) Loving my new life!!!!
Response 3) no longer living with a lying cheater!!
Response 4) Aren’t we separated at your request? What’s going on? I don’t know, tell me about your boyfriend.
Response 5) Here is my lawyers information, you will be speaking with him now exclusively.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Just caught up, I took a break from the thread. Your wife is hilarious.

She moves out for space and you need to understand.
You delete IG photos and NOW she is worried And doesn’t understand.

I bet people are questioning her and she is in the hot seat. Her communication has less to do with you and more to do with her standing amongst family and friends.

IMO.


Cognitive dissonance is awful.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Just caught up, I took a break from the thread. Your wife is hilarious.
> 
> She moves out for space and you need to understand.
> You delete IG photos and NOW she is worried And doesn’t understand.
> 
> I bet people are questioning her and she is in the hot seat. Her communication has less to do with you and more to do with her standing amongst family and friends.
> 
> IMO.
> 
> 
> Cognitive dissonance is awful.


I think very little if any of her communication or thoughts in the last 5.5 weeks have had to do with me


----------



## Marc878

What’s her actions or lack of telling you?


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I think very little if any of her communication or thoughts in the last 5.5 weeks have had to do with me


Agreed.


----------



## OutofRetirement

She is occupied elsewhere. Possibly have met a new friend.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I think very little if any of her communication or thoughts in the last 5.5 weeks have had to do with me


This shows me you are in a better place than when this started.


----------



## BluesPower

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This shows me you are in a better place than when this started.


How is he in a better place? Did he file for divorce? Is he making arrangements to move on with his life? 

I guess I have not seen that, so I must have missed it.


----------



## Evinrude58

All I can say is ten days with no contact is likely excruciatingly difficult for you, and that every single day you increase the length of that no contact, the better off you are.
Every time you respond to her, you verify that you still care what she thinks and are therefore still her fall back guy for security.

The longer you go withoutthinking about her and especiallyany firm of contact, the faster you’ll heal. Don’t try to work out in your mind why she did whatever. She did it because she wanted to, and because you hAve no value to her.
it sucks to know that, but that’s the truth.

get healed and you’ll find someone that actually does value YOU.

btw, you’ll find a woman like your wife has little value to a good man.


----------



## Gabriel

Evinrude58 said:


> get healed and you’ll find someone that actually does value YOU.
> 
> btw, you’ll find a woman like your wife has little value to a good man.


Agree


----------



## VladDracul

Gabriel said:


> This is great. I'm a little softer than that, so I'd probably say "So I don't think there is anything here to save, and it's probably time we hire some lawyers." Leaves the door open one tiny crack, barely.


How about, "I thought I'd miss you more than I do. Now that your presents in not perennially in my face, I've been contemplating what you have to offer me other chicks don't have and I cannot come up with a lot. I'm thinking we'd both be better off giving up on our marriage and just being friends. "


----------



## Marc878

VladDracul said:


> How about, "I thought I'd miss you more than I do. Now that your presents in not perennially in my face, I've been contemplating what you have to offer me other chicks don't have and I cannot come up with a lot. I'm thinking we'd both be better off giving up on our marriage and just being friends. "


Id drop the friends part.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

BluesPower said:


> How is he in a better place? Did he file for divorce? Is he making arrangements to move on with his life?
> 
> I guess I have not seen that, so I must have missed it.


Gotta love semantics.
Yes, you missed it.
Divorce and moving on takes time. You can act like it doesn’t, but this is his thread and about him. Go get the other posts where he actually admitts she is the screw up and doesn’t give her an out.

Yes, he is in a better place than where he was when I stopped reading.


----------



## Nucking Futs

BluesPower said:


> How is he in a better place? Did he file for divorce? Is he making arrangements to move on with his life?
> 
> I guess I have not seen that, so I must have missed it.


Better mental place. He's slowly pulling his head out, and while it hasn't popped fully clear yet more and more is starting to emerge. A faster pace would be better for him, give it one mighty pull and stand up straight and tall, but slow progress is better than no progress.


----------



## VladDracul

Marc878 said:


> Id drop the friends part.


The part I hope that old Chicago and other guys in his shoes remember is, "I've been contemplating what you have to offer me other chicks don't have and I cannot come up with a lot."


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Thanks for everyone input and yes Philly I certainly am in a better place than I was 2/3 weeks ago. Much better. No I haven't filed for divorce, but I am not scared to loose her anymore, I have realized I already have lost her, we have been separated for nearly 6 weeks, she had/has a boyfriend. I am making progress and appreciate everyone thoughts and comments


----------



## jlg07

Chicago, just curious -- if you KNOW she has a BF, you KNOW you are not afraid to "lose her" as you put it, why have you NOT started the Divorce paperwork?
I'm not telling you what to do at ALL -- just not sure why you haven't done this for yourself?


----------



## Marc878

The hardest thing for most people is making a decision. You’re not alone in this. Pretty common.
Time does bring clarity. You’ll know what to do and when to do it. If you see what is versus what you want to see.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

jlg07 said:


> Chicago, just curious -- if you KNOW she has a BF, you KNOW you are not afraid to "lose her" as you put it, why have you NOT started the Divorce paperwork?
> I'm not telling you what to do at ALL -- just not sure why you haven't done this for yourself?


To be honest I am still living in our house, my life has not changed that much other what my wife is no longer there. I think quarantine has a lot to do with it, I gave her a chance to work things out because I didn't have much to loose. There wasn't a lot else I could be doing, I couldn't go out, I couldn't go on a date, I was not missing out on anything by giving her a chance to come around. Where we live you have to be separated for 52 weeks before a divorce is granted. So whether you file in week 2 of separation or week 28 doesn't make a difference. Unless its contested and has to go to court, which given no kids it should not be


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Not being nosy, but how about the marriage financially?

Is she still able to draw funds at will, or have you started or completed separating monies?

That may be assisted by filing.

I guarantee you she's thought about how to get most of the monies anyone has laying about. Guaranteed.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Not being nosy, but how about the marriage financially?
> 
> Is she still able to draw funds at will, or have you started or completed separating monies?
> 
> That may be assisted by filing.
> 
> I guarantee you she's thought about how to get most of the monies anyone has laying about. Guaranteed.


Yes we have serrated Paychecks, car payments, and living expenses, we are each paying debts in our own name but during operation there will have to be an evening up, our savings account is in my own individual account and I have not touched it just let it sit there. 

Certainly in the months leading up to my Dday she was transferring more money to her personal account from out Joint account. But I didn't think anything of it. She also went on a big shopping spree on a credit card in my name in the two weeks between ILYBNILWY and my Dday, which i didn't even bat an eye at as I was trying to save marriage. My attorney has said those charges would play into any settlement though. 

Right after my Dday I cancelled all joint credit and changes Pay cheque. I am fully protected


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Yes we have serrated Paychecks, car payments, and living expenses, we are each paying debts in our own name but during operation there will have to be an evening up, our savings account is in my own individual account and I have not touched it just let it sit there.
> 
> Certainly in the months leading up to my Dday she was transferring more money to her personal account from out Joint account. But I didn't think anything of it. She also went on a big shopping spree on a credit card in my name in the two weeks between ILYBNILWY and my Dday, which i didn't even bat an eye at as I was trying to save marriage. My attorney has said those charges would play into any settlement though.
> 
> Right after my Dday I cancelled all joint credit and changes Pay cheque. I am fully protected


My ex wife did the same. All of a sudden, she had a closet full of new clothes, a fancy new treadmill, and had booked an expensive girl's trip away - all without consultation. Lots of dinners and nights out. Just done. While separated.

That's when I opened my own accounts. I got a phone call the next morning after my paycheck didn't go into our joint account. She was mad because she couldn't continue to live her lifestyle, pay the mortgage, bills, etc without me funding it. 

I told her I was no longer going to pay the bills on a place I didn't live in, and wasn't going to pay for her single lifestyle. I had requested to close our joint credit cards, so she knew that was coming as well.

I got her to agree to the separation agreement by agreeing to pay off the credit cards, start paying for the mortgage and bills again (but she had to leave our place), and by giving her almost everything. Once she agreed to that, I focused on financially rebuiding.


----------



## jlg07

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> To be honest I am still living in our house, my life has not changed that much other what my wife is no longer there. I think quarantine has a lot to do with it, I gave her a chance to work things out because I didn't have much to loose. There wasn't a lot else I could be doing, I couldn't go out, I couldn't go on a date, I was not missing out on anything by giving her a chance to come around. Where we live you have to be separated for 52 weeks before a divorce is granted. So whether you file in week 2 of separation or week 28 doesn't make a difference. Unless its contested and has to go to court, which given no kids it should not be


AH, that makes sense thanks. SO, you have the "official" separation filed, and now it's just a wait until you can file kind of thing?
As long as YOU are not liable for any of her debts and your finances are protected, that's good.
NOW, you just have to worry about YOU being protected (yourself, not externals).


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Yes we have serrated Paychecks, car payments, and living expenses, we are each paying debts in our own name but during operation there will have to be an evening up, our savings account is in my own individual account and I have not touched it just let it sit there.
> 
> Certainly in the months leading up to my Dday she was transferring more money to her personal account from out Joint account. But I didn't think anything of it. She also went on a big shopping spree on a credit card in my name in the two weeks between ILYBNILWY and my Dday, which i didn't even bat an eye at as I was trying to save marriage. My attorney has said those charges would play into any settlement though.
> 
> Right after my Dday I cancelled all joint credit and changes Pay cheque. I am fully protected


So, all of this occurred and she had the nerve to worry about you taking down pictures? Man she is full of crap.


----------



## Gabriel

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So, all of this occurred and she had the nerve to worry about you taking down pictures? Man she is full of crap.


Right?? She is an entitled brat with no accountability.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks for everyone input and yes Philly I certainly am in a better place than I was 2/3 weeks ago. Much better. No I haven't filed for divorce, but I am not scared to loose her anymore, I have realized I already have lost her, we have been separated for nearly 6 weeks, she had/has a boyfriend. I am making progress and appreciate everyone thoughts and comments


It's easy for her to find a boyfriend but it will be difficult to find a husband like you.


----------



## Lostinthought61

while you are at Chicago, i would start to change all of the beneficiaries of your life insurance policy, god forbid something happens to you, i am sure you do not want her and that guy to have a fun time on you. I can not tell you the stories i hear that people divorce but forget to change the beneficiaries of insurances and wills and the last person they want to see get the money upon their death is often time the person that gets it to the anger of the family.


----------



## Marduk

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So, all of this occurred and she had the nerve to worry about you taking down pictures? Man she is full of crap.


It's because it breaks the illusion with other people that everything is fine.

My ex did this too during our separation - she refused to even admit for the first few months that we were separated to other people. It would ruin her 'image' and make others question what she was really up to, and why.

Cheaters can't have that. Managing perceptions is often one of their top priorities.


----------



## TDSC60

Chicago,

You have filed a legal separation, right? If not, you may still be liable for debts she runs up.

This happened to my son. His XW had credit cards in her name only that he did not even know about. She used them to fund trips with her lovers (their were many) while he was away for military training. A year after he caught and divorced her the debt collectors came after him for payment. He got a lawyer but ended up having to pay them off or let his credit be ruined. Evidently since they were married at the time it did not matter if his name was on the accounts or not. 

Getting a legal separation would have avoided that. Think about it.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

TDSC60 said:


> Chicago,
> 
> You have filed a legal separation, right? If not, you may still be liable for debts she runs up.
> 
> This happened to my son. His XW had credit cards in her name only that he did not even know about. She used them to fund trips with her lovers (their were many) while he was away for military training. A year after he caught and divorced her the debt collectors came after him for payment. He got a lawyer but ended up having to pay them off or let his credit be ruined. Evidently since they were married at the time it did not matter if his name was on the accounts or not.
> 
> Getting a legal separation would have avoided that. Think about it.


Not legal separation no, I have well documented our separation thought. but i need to follow up with my lawyer on this. Thanks for the heads up


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

I wanted to provide a quick update to every, I have been working with a few members via DM for the last week. 

Last weekend I received the whats going on text. I replied to that text the following day stating that in 5 weeks since Dday there had been no remorse, no empathy, no regret on her part. I reiterated that i had make two requests (transparency, timeline) for items that would allow me to begin to heal and those had been ignored. I stated that is she was ready to help me heal we could talk, if not we could talk about separating our lives fully

Her reply was as expected, that I haven't given her a chance to hear what she needs (I have I have no less than 7 things written down in my notes), that all we have talked about is what I need, that she feels my requests are another control in what she feels is already a controlling relationship and as per her therapists my requests are a band-aid approach when the real work needs to be me fixing my issues that caused her affair. She suggest a neutral MC to help us communicate better as she feels we are not communicating 

I agreed to MC in a moment of weakness (one of many yes I know), I found a affair recovery specialist in our area, he isn't available for a couple weeks though

Tuesday evening I send a message explaining I had found someone but they are not available for a couple weeks. I also I send a detailed and descriptive emailing explaining that my requests are not a control, not a demand, but instead what I require to feel safe in the relationship. She has full autonomy to comply or not to comply. I once again requested three things;
1. Proof that she is no longer contacting OM. I walked back on my realest for full device access
2. Detailed timeline, which included some direct questions about her relation with Om as well and circumstances around it
3. If she has come to point in IC where she can identify why affair happen unrelated to marriage issues 

I reiterated a the end she has to do whats best for her, the things above are what I need. I respect her decision if she decides to not provide them. I know what I need to move forward. I did not explicitly threaten divorce but the tone was there. My message was nearly 700 words in total 

She replied about 24 hours later (usually had been reply in minutes) to say she does not want to discuss any of this via text or email it has to be with a therapist. and for me to send he the MC i found so she can verify she would be comfortable with him. Total of 30 words 

To me it is now clear at this point she is either 100% manipulating things or actually doesn't feel comfortable taking responsibility or discussing her mistakes without a moderator there. I have never given her a reason to be scared of talking to me directly. So whether this is invented or a deep seeded issue I'm not sure. 

What i do know is I am at a final crossroads here, its clear if we do go down any path it will be 100% on her terms. She cant even answer a question like is she in love with him still? Been asked 3 times now and always deflected/not answered. I think it is time to pull the plug, I don't know whats there for us if there is no remorse, accountability, anything - what she did is not a minor annoyance, its major. 

One member said it very weekly its like she cut your finger off and is asking you to call 911 

I know my process hjas been more deliberate and softer than some would like - but it is my process and I am slowly getting there - I am seeing the light

Thanks


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> What i do know is I am at a final crossroads here, its clear if we do go down any path it will be 100% on her terms. She cant even answer a question like is she in love with him still? Been asked 3 times now and always deflected/not answered. I think it is time to pull the plug, I don't know whats there for us if there is no remorse, accountability, anything - what she did is not a minor annoyance, its major.
> 
> One member said it very weekly its like she cut your finger off and is asking you to call 911
> 
> I know my process has been more deliberate and softer than some would like - but it is my process and I am slowly getting there - I am seeing the light


I really hope that you are starting to see the light. Frankly, there is not much here. 

Further, you don't think she has not been seeing him, do you, or do you care? 

I guess you are seeing that you have nothing to work with here. 

I hope you are doing ok. You do realize that your process and what you are putting yourself through, has to be hurting you worse than if you just pulled the plug. 

At least it would me, but this is your life. 

I hope you are taking care of yourself. I wish you strength...


----------



## lucy999

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> when the real work needs to be me fixing my issues that caused her affair.


She is so off base here. Cheater's Script 101, Chapter 1, page 23. She has no one to blame but herself for her affair.

And to insist on having a neutral third party as a mediator. That's some high-level BS right there. I wouldn't do it for all the tea in China.

She's afraid to be alone with you to answer the hard questions. She wants someone to run interference and redirect and to level the playing field. Newsflash--the playing field isn't level! At all. And it never will be again.She's the one who tilted it.


----------



## colingrant

> *She's afraid to be alone with you to answer the hard questions. She wants someone to run interference and redirect and to level the playing field.* Newsflash--the playing field isn't level! At all. And it never will be again.She's one who tilted it.


Bingo


----------



## colingrant

> I know my process has been more deliberate and softer than some would like - but it is my process and I am slowly getting there - I am seeing the light


What's important is that you're seeing the light and moving forward. What' actually helpful is that she's showing the light and it's bright as hell. It doesn't flicker. It's bold and piercing. In other words, she's making it easy for you to see it and that helps you. 

You would be confused if she sent mixed messages, but she isn't. Her messages are consistent, strong, intentional and self-serving. Hence, we have the perfect wayward spouse to disengage from.


----------



## OutofRetirement

I fear that a marriage counselor, even one specializing in infidelity, is at best a waste of time if she is still in contact with other man. At worst, she lies to him and says she is in no contact, when she is, and when you make decisions based on faulty assumptions (like she ended it with him but didn't), it makes things way worse. 

And why woudn't she just say she stopped contacting him if she did? He is a good friend and she has no plans of you forcing her to give him up, but she will stop having sex with him and will keep it platonic. Her therapist, a professional expert, said so.

The 24-hour 30-word reply came from her therapist - you know that, right? Maybe she will ask that her therapist come to the marriage counselor you named. I am guessing your wife is giving that counselor's name to her therapist, who will contact the marriage counselor to give some background before you come.

People I know well who have had relationship issues and went to a therapist, just had bad experiences. The only ones I've heard where they had good experiences were teen-early adults who were having what I call "growing pains" and the counseling helped a lot. But any full-formed adults I've ever heard, the experiences ranged from ineffective to absolutely nightmare. Plus, I know through knowing counselors from coaching youth sports, parents of the kids have been counselors, and what a mess in their own personal lives. I wouldn't let them guide me down the street, never mind guide my life or relationship. So I hope you have a good one, and I hope your wife is honest about seeing the other man still.

I understand completely where you are, you can't give up the small possibility that she can come around, after you have been with her 16 years, what's another few months, and you have nothing else going on, anyway.

If I were you, about a day or two before your scheduled marriage counseling, I would call the counselor up and ask if your wife's therapist has called to give any background.

I think there's about a 50/50 chance that your wife's therapist will nix your counselor before the scheduled appointment. If your wife's therapist already knows your proposed counselor and disagrees with how to deal with infidelity, or if your wife's therapist calls your proposed counselor and can't get your counselor to agree on how you should fix your faults first, I think your wife's therapist will tell wife your counselor is a quack. I think you can see what I think of your wife's therapist.


----------



## Marc878

She wants a rugsweep which means you’ll get this again if it even stopped. With MC’s even with infidelity experience you stand less than a 50/50 chance of getting a decent on.

Exoect it upfront and leave it that’s how it turneout.


----------



## Openminded

You still care more than she does and she’s aware of that.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Openminded said:


> You still care more than she does and she’s aware of that.


It crazy how much she doesn't care. She is either the best poker player ever or she literally lost her heart and is still somehow alive


----------



## BluesPower

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> It crazy how much she doesn't care. She is either the best poker player ever or she literally lost her heart and is still somehow alive


I know that you will not believe this until much later if ever. 

I really don't think she has lost her heart, I don't think she ever had one. Like I said, I know you don't believe that. Thing is that it is kind of unusual for someone to do what she has done at this level. 

So that says that she never had the guts to tell you she was unhappy, or to just say that I want out. 

People like that don't have heart, not really...


----------



## Gabriel

Some people are just unable to accept that they are at fault or wrong about anything (kinda like our president, lol). Sounds like your wife is one of these people. Therapist is protection for her, not to help you. In your shoes, I'd be struggling with needing answers and be tempted to try to get them by going through the appointment, but in reality her answers don't matter. She is showing you who she really is.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I wanted to provide a quick update to every, I have been working with a few members via DM for the last week.
> 
> Last weekend I received the whats going on text. I replied to that text the following day stating that in 5 weeks since Dday there had been no remorse, no empathy, no regret on her part. I reiterated that i had make two requests (transparency, timeline) for items that would allow me to begin to heal and those had been ignored. I stated that is she was ready to help me heal we could talk, if not we could talk about separating our lives fully
> 
> Her reply was as expected, that I haven't given her a chance to hear what she needs (I have I have no less than 7 things written down in my notes), that all we have talked about is what I need, that she feels my requests are another control in what she feels is already a controlling relationship and as per her therapists my requests are a band-aid approach when the real work needs to be me fixing my issues that caused her affair. She suggest a neutral MC to help us communicate better as she feels we are not communicating
> 
> I agreed to MC in a moment of weakness (one of many yes I know), I found a affair recovery specialist in our area, he isn't available for a couple weeks though
> 
> Tuesday evening I send a message explaining I had found someone but they are not available for a couple weeks. I also I send a detailed and descriptive emailing explaining that my requests are not a control, not a demand, but instead what I require to feel safe in the relationship. She has full autonomy to comply or not to comply. I once again requested three things;
> 1. Proof that she is no longer contacting OM. I walked back on my realest for full device access
> 2. Detailed timeline, which included some direct questions about her relation with Om as well and circumstances around it
> 3. If she has come to point in IC where she can identify why affair happen unrelated to marriage issues
> 
> I reiterated a the end she has to do whats best for her, the things above are what I need. I respect her decision if she decides to not provide them. I know what I need to move forward. I did not explicitly threaten divorce but the tone was there. My message was nearly 700 words in total
> 
> She replied about 24 hours later (usually had been reply in minutes) to say she does not want to discuss any of this via text or email it has to be with a therapist. and for me to send he the MC i found so she can verify she would be comfortable with him. Total of 30 words
> 
> To me it is now clear at this point she is either 100% manipulating things or actually doesn't feel comfortable taking responsibility or discussing her mistakes without a moderator there. I have never given her a reason to be scared of talking to me directly. So whether this is invented or a deep seeded issue I'm not sure.
> 
> What i do know is I am at a final crossroads here, its clear if we do go down any path it will be 100% on her terms. She cant even answer a question like is she in love with him still? Been asked 3 times now and always deflected/not answered. I think it is time to pull the plug, I don't know whats there for us if there is no remorse, accountability, anything - what she did is not a minor annoyance, its major.
> 
> One member said it very weekly its like she cut your finger off and is asking you to call 911
> 
> I know my process hjas been more deliberate and softer than some would like - but it is my process and I am slowly getting there - I am seeing the light
> 
> Thanks


Right. It's you being controlling to insist she end her affair as a condition of attempting to reconcile. It's why she wants to waffle on the MC - she wants to make sure the new MC won't laugh that right out.

You have a chance at flipping the script here. Just say you're done. Don't offer to reconcile. 

If and when she asks you to reconsider, just say "three's a crowd. I'm not going to go back into a relationship with you when you're dating someone else."

And if she insists that she's not, just say "I don't believe you." Leave it up to her to try to decide how she's going to convince you.

Be out. Let her try to pull you back in if she wants (and it's what you want). Don't say you want to reconcile with conditions (even though they are reasonable) because she's being a childish manipulator about things.

These are all red flags for reconciliation by the way.

And I virtually also guarantee she's continued the affair and met up with the guy if she's had an opportunity to do so. Or met up with someone else.


----------



## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> It crazy how much she doesn't care. She is either the best poker player ever or she literally lost her heart and is still somehow alive


Ok. This is going to sting, so don't read it if you're not ready.

It's not that she doesn't care. It's that she doesn't care about you. She cares very highly - about herself, and only herself. And she feels that is justified, because she matters more than you do.

Here's what happens:

She gets attracted to someone else
She comes up with reasons to justify why she should get with someone else
She re-writes her entire relationship with you to make you the bad guy - so even if she cheats, you're still more of a bad guy and it's justified
She gets with the other guy
She realizes she can have it all - she can have him (or a few 'hims') and still have you - because she's so incredibly awesome
Based on her being so awesome, you should be happy with whatever crumbs she throws your way
She gets caught. She blames you. She doesn't want to go back to the way it is, because she has everything her way. She doesn't want to be held accountable by you, because you don't matter as much as she does. Because she's so awesome that she can get 2+ guys. Why are you making this so hard? Go back to your little box and accept the crumbs she throws your way. And don't forget - it's your own fault you're here. In her distorted mind, of course.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Marduk speaks truth. She doesn’t want your marriage, she just wants the benefits you provide while she test drives other models. She isn’t sorry and she doesn’t love you. All she talks about is how awful you are and how HER affair is your fault. 

Skip the MC. It’s a waste of your time and your money. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marduk

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> She replied about 24 hours later


I bet I can guess what she was busy doing for those 24 hours.


----------



## Openminded

She never was who you thought.


----------



## faithfulman

@Chicagohusband2020 - do you see the pattern yet? You start pulling down your Instagram photos, you no longer deposit money into the joint account, she is all over you like white on rice - what's wrong? Why did you do that?

The second you soften up, even a little bit, she walks all over you.

You have to stay like stone. That is how you stay in control as best you can.


----------



## Marduk

I just read back through some of the original posts.

This one jumped out at me:


Chicagohusband2020 said:


> She left the house Saturday crying, talking about how she did want to fix things and didn't want to leave. When she did leave she jumped on a call with him for 40 minutes,. Then laid in bed that night and played secy message time while at the same time texting me saying she missed me and wanted to fix things.


So you know _at minimum_ what she's been up to. You know she's come over for booty calls after the other guy turned her on. You need to assume if you've shut that down, she's gone elsewhere.

And you need to assume that she's literally still sexting him while she's texting you.

The other thing: it looks like she's agreed to no contact several times here - but now she's not. What changed?


----------



## faithfulman

OutofRetirement said:


> People I know well who have had relationship issues and went to a therapist, just had bad experiences. The only ones I've heard where they had good experiences were teen-early adults who were having what I call "growing pains" and the counseling helped a lot. But any full-formed adults I've ever heard, the experiences ranged from ineffective to absolutely nightmare. Plus, I know through knowing counselors from coaching youth sports, parents of the kids have been counselors, and what a mess in their own personal lives. I wouldn't let them guide me down the street, never mind guide my life or relationship. So I hope you have a good one, and I hope your wife is honest about seeing the other man still.


I want to second this big time. I have never-ever understood the confidence and trust that people in infidelity forums put on therapists to help them untangle the betrayal and cause grown-ass cheating adults to come clean and change their ways.

I also don't understand the Marriage Counselor = bad, Individual Counselor = Good, belief.

A large percentage Marriage/relationship counselors do both individual and couples counseling.

***

The fact is, that people who do not want to be accountable for their actions are not going to sit by and be truthful with a therapist and let a therapist strictly enforce responsibility on them.

The liar/cheater is going to leave the therapist.

And therapists, forget whether or not they are smart or stupid, virtuous or degenerate, etc. - most likely they are just "average" - they rely on repeat business!

Calling your paying client a liar who must come clean is not a recipe for repeat business.

***

This may seem like a thread-jack, but it mostly isn't.

Your wife wants a therapist there because of exactly this reason:

*



She's afraid to be alone with you to answer the hard questions. She wants someone to run interference and redirect and to level the playing field.

Click to expand...

*So it's up to you bro. Nothing a therapist is gonna do to change her into an honest person.

There is only you and your requirements.

She already violated your relationship requirements, not she is violating the requirements for any hope of reconciliation.

You decide. Do not negotiate. Give her no choices other than do exactly what you say you need, or to move on with her life without you.

I know this is difficult, but at least you don't have kids. Once you cut her out of her life, you never have to look back.


----------



## lovelygirl

CH, don't you realize how much disrespect she has for you? She even has the "luxury" to reply after 24 hrs, as if she's the one doing 180, not you. 
The roles are being reversed unfairy and you are helping her to maintain HER game with you, according to her own timeframe, pace of conversations and conditions.

When is it enough for you?
How much can you tolerate?
The more you fuel her game, the more disdain she feels towards you. 

Not only won't she love you just like before (if she ever did since you got married) ...but she won't think of you as a man,....at least not a man worth reconciling with. 

From the female perspective, she's done with you, unless you still want to pay her bills.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## colingrant

> The more you fuel her game, the more disdain she feels towards you.


Agree


> *From the female perspective,* she's done with you, unless you still want to pay her bills.


I greatly value female opinions when the wayward is a female.


----------



## Robert22205

Wow....your wife is out rageously controlling and manipulative. Plus she found a therapist that mirrors her wayward thoughts and denial in order to keep the fees rolling in.

I'm glad you're not currently living with her. It seems like most every time you have contact she takes advantage of your feelings for her (and she knows it).

At least distancing from her is allowing you to slowly work your way toward exiting an abusive relationship.

1 – if you guys go to a therapist, ideally find a therapist with special training in trauma and/or infidelity. Why? because the new therapist must have more credibility/credentials than her incompetent therapist. HOWEVER, don’t be surprised if her therapist advises against any therapist that you nominate.

2 - frankly, by ignoring your question about her contact with the OM, she's admitting she's still in contact. In fact, he's likely encouraging her (along with her therapist) in her wayward thinking in the belief that she’s the victim (and not you).

For some of us (and for good reason) continued contact plus insisting that she’s the victim would be a deal breaker.

3 *-" per her therapists my requests are a band-aid approach when the real work needs to be me fixing my issues that caused her affair"*. If the therapist stands by that statement, request that her therapist put their opinion in writing so you can share a copy of the therapist’s opinion with the state licensing authority.

4 - FINALLY, from your posts, she’s not taking anything you’re said seriously and has found her own wayward thinking support group with the OM and the therapist.

I know you don’t want to hear this but I don’t see any middle ground here or basis for reconciling.

IMO, your best strategy (to save your marriage if that’s what you want) for dealing with her stonewalling and wayward thinking is to not give her any validation or recognition. 

Cancel any future therapy with her, file for divorce and stop all contact until she takes action (instead of promises) with respect to your initial list.


----------



## MrQuatto

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I think very little if any of her communication or thoughts in the last 5.5 weeks have had to do with me


This is all to often, the reality. You Realizing it is a step in the right direction. She is in the wrong and will do anything to spin The blame away from herself. Until you also realize that and take steps to protect yourself, you will be vulnerable.

Counseling, will not work unless she is 100% accepting blame and applying all her effort working to reconciliation. Any direction from her that In any way directs you to do anything but observe her doing everything she can to fix this, is just another manipulation tool.

Q~


----------



## Openminded

colingrant said:


> Agree
> 
> I greatly value female opinions when the wayward is a female.


Okay. I’ll give you mine. She‘s totally a POS who’s playing him for whatever reason and at least part of him is still hoping against hope that she’ll change back into who he thought she was.

His posts are really, really difficult for me to read and I don’t type a tenth of what I actually think about the situation. I’d get banned if I did.

I absolutely despise women like her.


----------



## Evinrude58

Nobody is able to understand when they’re experiencing it for the first time, that a cheating wife that no longer is in love with her husband anymore—- they are not the same person you married by definition— they don’t love you anymore. She will seem like a different person because she is. And she will screw you over. The longer you wait to file, the worse off you’ll be. Tahoe advantage of the fact she wants out.

a therapistcan’t make your wife fall in love with you again— I know you already know that...


----------



## frusdil

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thanks for everyone input and yes Philly I certainly am in a better place than I was 2/3 weeks ago. Much better. No I haven't filed for divorce, but I am not scared to loose her anymore, I have realized I already have lost her, we have been separated for nearly 6 weeks, she had/has a boyfriend. I am making progress and appreciate everyone thoughts and comments


OP - it sounds like ýou're in Australia (so am I) from some of your other comments, I STRONGLY advise you to file for legal separation, so that there is a definitive, legal date for your split. If she takes out a credit card in your name, or a loan, you could be on the hook for half the debt. PLEASE do this asap.



Robert22205 said:


> 3 *-" per her therapists my requests are a band-aid approach when the real work needs to be me fixing my issues that caused her affair"*. If the therapist stands by that statement, request that her therapist put their opinion in writing so you can share a copy of the therapist’s opinion with the state licensing authority.


This is why I'm not a fan of IC in situations like this. Her affair is 100% on her and her alone. Nothing you did/ didn't do, or did/didn't say made her do it, she chose that all on her own. Her therapist is a friggin joke.


----------



## VladDracul

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> I know my process hjas been more deliberate and softer than some would like - but it is my process and I am slowly getting there - I am seeing the light


Dawg, it ain't what we would like. Its what we know will be effective. How many people has got to tell you she playing you like a $5.00 yard sale guitar and neutering you right out of the gate. She throws the "control" word at you and you react like a trained seal. Here's the lowdown my man. If a guys wife starts sporting around with other guys, he damn well get in control of the situation or wimp out and leave the pack like a whipped male wolf. Read Lovely Girls post 661. She's dead on the money. She's giving you invaluable information on how women feel about a man they can kick around and puzzy whip. Instead of paying a marriage counselor, digest her advise and send her a check.


----------



## CupCake522

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all
> 
> about 6 Weeks back I got the ILYBINILWY from my wife. I was shocked floored. We have been together for 16 years no kids. For the last three weeks I tried to make myself better,
> More appealing, did nice stuff. It didn’t really change my wife’s perspective or feelings at all. She claimed that i was too distant, didn’t like doing what she liked, laid a lot of things I did wrong on me. I read I worked on it. I acknowledged those things. I even research marriage counseling
> 
> She said she wanted to move out and have some space. I begged her that it was not the right thing to do for us.
> I really stood back and looked through the relationship from 2500 feet. And things were not adding up.
> 
> I did a little sniping and found she has been in an affair with a work college on mutual work trips for about a year. Ihave some textsdiscussing him between friends. No hard evidence.
> 
> I confronted her about OM, she denied ever Cheating on me or having an emotional affair
> 
> You can tell by her attitude after being confirmed she is sunken, riddled with guilt
> 
> I’m going to contact a lawyer tomorrow. I cannot live with the betrayal. Do the 180
> 
> any other support is appreciated


I do not blame you , you deserve to have someone who appreciates your worth good luck and keep us posted 😁


----------



## TDSC60

Sorry, but why do you want to save the marriage? Where is the value to you? All you get back is a lying, cheater who has no love or respect for you.
Sadly your wife is now more involved with OM than you. He holds a higher value for her than you do.

If you reconcile you will not get the woman who you loved and married years ago. That person is long gone and is not coming back.

ILYBNILWY? Believe her. Do you want a wife who is not in love with you, but is most likely in love with another man. Respect yourself. Take care of yourself, no one else will.

The answer would be easy for me.


----------



## drifting on

I would tell her the $10.00 hookers near Madison between Kedzie and Damen have more integrity then her. Chicago, don’t interact anymore, just let the bus run her over. Saying your flaws and issues drove her to cheat is very telling, she will not accept responsibility for her choices. Remorse very well may never enter her.


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## Evinrude58

If you do some reading, you will quickly start to see almost miraculous similarities in what you’re hearing and seeing from your wife. It will be almost like deja vu.
It’s because people are people. They do the same stuff s as he say the same things. In all honestly, several of the people hear could likely listen to your wife in a conversation with you and predict nearly the exact words out of her mouth.

YOUR cheating wife has told you plainly “I love you but I’m not in love with you.”
She is not special, your situation isn’t special. This is just how it is. We all have been there. We know how this goes.

You don’t have a special situation. It’s special to you, your wife is special to you. But what has happened is not, and what is going to happen is predictable as what 2 + 2 equals.

She’s told you she’s no longer in love with you.
You aren’t in the right state of mind to believe her—-YET. 
We that have been there before only want you to avoid as much pain as possible.

you are going about this like 99% of men that have been given the ILYBINILWY speech, and will get the same result, which is a long, long time of misery.

you’d be soooooooo much better off acting like a strong, confident man and filing for divorce and explains to her you are no longer interested in a woman that doesn’t love you.

truth is, you divorce takes a while, and you could always back out. You won’t if you’re smart.

the truth is a hard pill to swallow. I wish you luck getting it down.


----------



## Openminded

TAM is full of men trying so hard to ”nice” their cheating wives back. Know what their wives are likely thinking? “I can do whatever I want married to a man like you; good to know.”

Women don‘t like weak men. We just don’t. Not all of us will take advantage of men who are weak but many will and cheaters almost certainly will. It’s like winning the lottery to be a cheating wife with a weak husband.

Keep that in mind.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Nice does not work with a wayward. Full frontal assault via tell her you’re done, and going dark and 180 works. When you try nice she loses respect. As I have told numerous men on here women respect strength and when you go in to namby pamby nice guy mode they see you as nothing but a spineless wimp. Been there done that.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

drifting on said:


> I would tell her the $10.00 hookers near Madison between Kedzie and Damen have more integrity then her. Chicago, don’t interact anymore, just let the bus run her over. Saying your flaws and issues drove her to cheat is very telling, she will not accept responsibility for her choices. Remorse very well may never enter her.


That is an insult to those $10 hookers @drifting on


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Nice does not work with a wayward. Full frontal assault via tell her you’re done, and going dark and 180 works. When you try nice she loses respect. As I have told numerous men on here women respect strength and when you go in to namby pamby nice guy mode they see you as nothing but a spineless wimp. Been there done that.


Thankfully I am beginning to understand this


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thankfully I am beginning to understand this


I started out trying to be super nice mr. Sensitive when I felt something was amiss. After D day the good folks on here set me straight. I changed direction, implemented the 180, and disappeared for six weeks. Worked on knocking sense into FWW. Now 4 and 1/2 years into r.


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## ABHale

It is funny how her IC is putting the blame on you for her affair. You will never get her to take responsibility for it with her seeing her IC. Now she wants to make sure that the marriage counselor you found will blame you as well.

It is past time to file for divorce.


----------



## TDSC60

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> I started out trying to be super nice mr. Sensitive when I felt something was amiss. After D day the good folks on here set me straight. I changed direction, implemented the 180, and disappeared for six weeks. Worked on knocking sense into FWW. Now 4 and 1/2 years into r.


 NLLH, Your wife seems to be the exception to the rule. She immediately went into tying to chase you down and did everything in her power to save the marriage. Without her showing you immediate remorse and regret for what she did to you, you would not be where you are today.

Unfortunately, Chicago's wife is showing none of this. She has not even told him the truth of the affair. At the moment she is not a candidate for R and is showing signs that she never will be. I think COVID-19 stopped the physical aspect of the affair, but the emotional part remains strong.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

TDSC60 said:


> NLLH, Your wife seems to be the exception to the rule. She immediately went into tying to chase you down and did everything in her power to save the marriage. Without her showing you immediate remorse and regret for what she did to you, you would not be where you are today.
> 
> Unfortunately, Chicago's wife is showing none of this. She has not even told him the truth of the affair. At the moment she is not a candidate for R and is showing signs that she never will be. I think COVID-19 stopped the physical aspect of the affair, but the emotional part remains strong.


You are 100% spot on @TSDC60. Had my wife acted in a fashion similar to Chicago’s wife, I would have divorced without question. I feel for him having been in his shoes, I tried the nice **** when I first thought we were really having issues, but once I confirmed on Dday, it was time to rain hell down. And rain hell I did. I had never so much as raised my voice to my wife the entire time we were married, with the exception of when I was in the Corps and she charged $700 on a credit card one time, and that shocked the living hell out of her I could become so angry and indifferent once I went into 180 mode.

I at first thought the 180 was sort of strange, but after reading about it on here and implementing it, it is a pretty effective way to right the ship.


----------



## Evinrude58

It’s disgusting for me to hear about a cheater who is clearly still cheating, using “counselors” to literally emotionally abuse you... 
Sir, Your wife not only doesn’t love you, she’s playing games with you. 
not responding for 24hrs? When she does, 30 words, several of which tell you exactly how things are going to be. She’s not talking to you without a therapist?

You have a cheating wife that literally blames YOU for her lack of character.
She won’t even talk to you.

what you’re going to find is that she is going to do anything and everything she possibly can do—- things you won’t think are possible for a person of any conscience could do—-in screwing you over When she inevitably divorces you. Why not? You’re so awful you forced her to cheat! Shame on you!!! 🤢

I implore you to talk to a lawyer ASAP.
Yiu don’t realize because you are hurting so much, that there is a narrow window of opportunity while your wife still feels a possible hidden smidgen of guiit, to get an equitable divorce from this terrible person. When some time passes, and her family, friends, affair partner, and “IC” have finished coaching your wife into fully believing you are a villain, she is going to crush you. You have no experience with this, so you don’t Understand how every minute that goes by, puts you in further danger financially.

I assure you, it won’t be hard to replace an Unrepentant Chester who blames You for her own horrid behavior. Get rid of her and be in a position so that You can find love again when you’re ready.

there is nothing for you with this woman other than further emotional abuse. Have you ever seen a shark attack? Cold, lifeless eyes of a shark... I’ll bet that’s what your wife’s eyes look like when she’s taking to you now.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Please pull off the band and file.


----------



## farsidejunky

What's funny, Chicago, is that nothing has changed.

1. She has no respect for you, and it shows in all of her actions.

2. It still...STILL...isn't enough for you to ACTUALLY be done. Instead, you pay more lip service, akin to "if it doesn't change I'm done"...

Bovine excrement. Talk. No action. 

Maybe one day you will get sick and tired of being sick and tired, but you are clearly still not there yet.

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## VladDracul

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Thankfully I am beginning to understand this


I hope you ain't just saying it to appease us. If what you say about your relationship is true, that girl's been giving you a shellacking since you reported it. I don't know what it is about some men that believe its better to hang on to a woman that perennially plays them for a fool rather than cut them loose and move on to newer and more caring models. My foolish brother is just like you. If I didn't know better, I'd swear you and him are the same person.


----------



## Beach123

She doesn’t intend to be honest with that therapist! She doesn’t intend to do ANYTHING and everything to repair that damage she created!

save the money - spend it on the lawyer to divorce her! The therapy money will be wasted money because she doesn’t intend to get honest about what she’s done to you.

quit being her chump. She’s playing you big time...but only because YOU allow it.


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## Kamstel2

Chicago, haven’t heard from you in a while.

how are you doing?


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## Chicagohusband2020

Just wanted to update and thank everyone. Thank you for the support and guidance over the last two + months. I have a meeting with my lawyer today to finalize divorce papers and I have meet someone that has revitalized my love for life. I am happier now that I was at any point in the last 10 years of marriage. Everything happens for a reason and everything works out in the end

I will update everyone as I go along the divorce journey.


----------



## Robert22205

Congrats on finding someone that revitalizes your love for life - YOU DESERVE TO LIVE YOUR BEST LIFE!

Distance yourself from her and expect her to attempt to love bomb you or manipulate you back into an abusive relationship.


----------



## Kamstel2

Congratulations
And keep walking straight out of the Hell that she put you in


----------



## Kamstel2

Does she know that you are filing?


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Just wanted to update everyone. As many of you had predicted it finally happened. I filed for divorce two week ago and the floodgates opened. Gifts being left at my door, numerous text, phone calls with messages saying she loves me and wants me back, misses Me. She is telling our friends she wants to get back together. 

I have made up my mind and was ready for this thanks to you guys

staying strong


----------



## Openminded




----------



## colingrant

Way to stay strong to your convictions. I think you exercised excellent judgement, poise, patience (with yourself), conviction and strength.


----------



## lucy999

Good for you. I know it's so been so painful, but you saved yourself a whole lifetime of pain.

Good luck to you and take care.


----------



## Gabriel

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Just wanted to update everyone. As many of you had predicted it finally happened. I filed for divorce two week ago and the floodgates opened. Gifts being left at my door, numerous text, phone calls with messages saying she loves me and wants me back, misses Me. She is telling our friends she wants to get back together.
> 
> I have made up my mind and was ready for this thanks to you guys
> 
> staying strong


Wow, that is bizarre. Thought you guys kind of agreed, even amicably, to move on. 

Guessing when she tried to take it to the next step with her little crush boy, he rejected her. So she put all her eggs back in you, her Plan B.


----------



## Chicagohusband2020

Gabriel said:


> Wow, that is bizarre. Thought you guys kind of agreed, even amicably, to move on.
> 
> Guessing when she tried to take it to the next step with her little crush boy, he rejected her. So she put all her eggs back in you, her Plan B.


My thoughts exactly, he dumped her or she realized it was not going to be long term. She has finally realized what she threw away and its not sitting well with her. Kind of makes me happy in away but concerned that it will get out of hand. We will see

Either way I am better off and happy


----------



## TDSC60

You tried your best to get her to recommit to the marriage and she fought you at every turn. I guarantee that she was on the phone to him when she got the divorce papers to tell him that she would be free of you in X months and they could finally move forward with their plans to be together. Then she got shut down by him saying it was just fun, he was not in love, and thanks for the good times but that is all there was to it. She then had her OH CRAP moment and she focused on getting back the marriage and life she willingly threw away. 

I don't think she ever thought that you would actually file. I think she thought she was in total control of you like she was during the affair. It shocked her to see that you could and did move on.

Keep moving forward and good luck with your new life without being manipulated and controlled by your STBXW. Just stay strong.


----------



## Gabriel

TDSC60 said:


> You tried your best to get her to recommit to the marriage and she fought you at every turn. I guarantee that she was on the phone to him when she got the divorce papers to tell him that she would be free of you in X months and they could finally move forward with their plans to be together. Then she got shut down by him saying it was just fun, he was not in love, and thanks for the good times but that is all there was to it. She then had her OH CRAP moment and she focused on getting back the marriage and life she willingly threw away.
> 
> I don't think she ever thought that you would actually file. I think she thought she was in total control of you like she was during the affair. It shocked her to see that you could and did move on.
> 
> Keep moving forward and good luck with your new life without being manipulated and controlled by your STBXW. Just stay strong.


Yes, exactly. There is no other explanation for the sudden change of heart. She even AGREED to end the marriage before. Now it's like no no no no. I don't think the timing of the divorce papers even played into it. It was all based on timing in HER life. She got dumped.

If Chicago took her back, she'd be all happy and loving until she found the next crush.


----------



## BluesPower

Gabriel said:


> Yes, exactly. There is no other explanation for the sudden change of heart. She even AGREED to end the marriage before. Now it's like no no no no. I don't think the timing of the divorce papers even played into it. It was all based on timing in HER life. She got dumped.
> 
> If Chicago took her back, she'd be all happy and loving until she found the next crush.


What is so funny, not to CH because he has lived this, is that it was so obvious that this was going to happen.

How many times has this happened, not always for sure, but when BF puts on the breaks and wifey thought they were so in love... I am just ROTFL...


----------



## colingrant

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> My thoughts exactly, he dumped her or she realized it was not going to be long term. She has finally realized what she threw away and its not sitting well with her. Kind of makes me happy in away *but concerned that it will get out of hand. We will see*
> 
> Either way I am better off and happy


The ferocity of my x fiance's pursuit of me has me shaking my head 25 years later. Never would I have imagined a well raised, mannered, professional, aspiring attorney would do the things she did for an entire year. A few examples:


X arranged for me to spend the night with her while her new boyfriend attended a church retreat. Translated: Le'ts have sex so that I can get pregnant.
Showed up at my new girlfriend's place of employment with three female friends. My girlfriend (now wife) just happen to be out to lunch. 
Knocked on my girlfriend's apartment door while she and I had gone to get a bite to eat. 
Knocked on my apartment door at 6:30am one morning. I just happened to be over my girlfriend's apartment that evening. Bullet dodge number 3.
Conducted extensive research to identify the rental home my family was staying at to call and hang up on anyone that answered. 
The next year, had a friend of hers stop by and knock on the door of a vacation rental home 1,000 miles away. Her friend happen to be on the island at the same time. I don't know how she knew about my whereabouts. Guess what? Again, my wife and I had gone to the beach and missed them. 4th dodged bullet.
All this ended when I had to call the cops on her, which threatened her being disbarred from practicing law. I thought she'd go away on her own. Turns out I never closed the door firmly enough, so she kept at it. 

So, to your point, don't underestimate anything. Much like your wife, my fiance' didn't know or think her affair would result in it being a deal breaker for me. To be honest, neither did I. Getting cheated on never crossed my mind for some reason. When it did, I was shocked. Weeks later, I was out.


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## Diceplayer

Dude, glad to hear that you are happy. We are all responsible for our own happiness and you found yours. Congratulations!


----------



## Openminded

I think he dumped her and she thought you would take her back. I thought you would too. Very glad I was wrong. You deserve so much better than her.


----------



## Kamstel2

Great job Chicago!!!

just keep walking straight out of Hell that she threw you into.

do we get to hear more about the new lady?
have fun with her


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

BluesPower said:


> What is so funny, not to CH because he has lived this, is that it was so obvious that this was going to happen.
> 
> How many times has this happened, not always for sure, but when BF puts on the breaks and wifey thought they were so in love... I am just ROTFL...


The classic “monkey branching” to a dead branch! Lol. 

Chicago deserves a chance at a committed relationship which honesty is in the front. Instead of the back. Best of luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skerzoid

One good strategy that has been used is to talk about getting back together after the divorce. Make the point that you have to start over from ground zero. And when you have the divorce in hand, hasta la vista, baby!


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## nekonamida

Way to go, Chicago! Don't be shy about telling your friends the truth about why you're divorcing. Don't let her manipulate them for sympathy by pretending she's the betrayed wife who can't understand why you're not responding to her desperate love bombing attempts.


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## manfromlamancha

Just to be clear, you divorced her because she exchanged pics and vids sneakily while professing her love for him and cutting you off and lying to you, right?
The pic at the amusement park was not her. He was far away enough to not meet up easily. Did you find any proof before this all went down of her having done more with him ?


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## sokillme

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> My thoughts exactly, he dumped her or she realized it was not going to be long term. She has finally realized what she threw away and its not sitting well with her. Kind of makes me happy in away but concerned that it will get out of hand. We will see
> 
> Either way I am better off and happy


She is mental ill. Or just very very stupid.

Here's the even more crazy thing, if you had filed for divorce the next day you caught her she would probably been begging you then. It's all about wanting what you can't have. Love has nothing to do with it. It's all ego. 

They all need to be treated like the zombies in the walking dead. Getting anywhere near them leaves you vulnerable to getting killed or worse becoming one of them.


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## sokillme

colingrant said:


> The ferocity of my x fiance's pursuit of me has me shaking my head 25 years later. Never would I have imagined a well raised, mannered, professional, aspiring attorney


I know right, who would ever believe an aspiring lawyer would be a narcissistic sociopath? 😜


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## OutofRetirement

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Just wanted to update everyone. As many of you had predicted it finally happened. I filed for divorce two week ago and the floodgates opened. Gifts being left at my door, numerous text, phone calls with messages saying she loves me and wants me back, misses Me. She is telling our friends she wants to get back together.
> 
> I have made up my mind and was ready for this thanks to you guys
> 
> staying strong


Did she finally meet your three requests? Did you ever go to the counselor you had set up?


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## Robert22205

What kind of a sick mind thinks 'gifts' are appropriate. 

Much of what she said and did to you since D day has been abusive (disrespectful and just plain mean). 
As I recall she (and her therapist) also blamed her inappropriate behavior with the OM on you. 

Her behavior towards you before and after D day has been selfish, entitled,deceitful and lacking in empathy for you. More than enough to divorce.

It's likely the OM enjoyed dating a married woman (no strings or commitment). When you filed for divorce the OM quickly dumped her - and you're her plan B.


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## bandit.45

She most likely found out you are dating and she can't stand it.

Tell her you wouldn't mind just having a physical relationship with her, but that she would just be a FWB and that the divorce will continue. Tell her you will continue seeing your new GF, but that if she wants to be your occasional booty call, you'll give her a ring. LOL! See how she reacts to that.


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## aine

Good for you, hope the divorce process goes smoothly and she's out of your life for good.


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## Tdbo

bandit.45 said:


> She most likely found out you are dating and she can't stand it.
> 
> Tell her you wouldn't mind just having a physical relationship with her, but that she would just be a FWB and that the divorce will continue. Tell her you will continue seeing your new GF, but that if she wants to be your occasional booty call, you'll give her a ring. LOL! See how she reacts to that.


Pending the full panel of STD tests, of course.


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## Taxman

Chicago: I have been there, too many times than I care to mention, when the wayward's fantasy world collapses. The other person is generally the impetus, but the breakup leads to a near immediate realization that the preceeding time period was spent in utter confusion and self deception. Then, you get the surprise visit, and a bit of bizarre behavior. Like I have recounted several times, I have had husbands, ask their ex out for coffee and lay out their return to the home. Some are rejected out of hand and some are welcomed back with open arms (although, I stipulate with my clients, there is no reconciliation until our legal eagles set up mutual agreements (post nup). If they are divorced, I recommend a two year cooling off period. Had one woman completely lose her mind when she came back to the home and children she abandoned not eight months earlier. She found another woman in her former bedroom. Her husband introduced her as his new girlfriend. ExWW demanded that the woman leave. Husband pointed out that she had signed off on the house when she divorced him. He also pointed out that she had been in a sexual relationship for these eight months. She maintained that she had a mental breakdown, and now she is healthy and WANTS HER LIFE BACK. She did not appreciate being marched out of her former home and told that her exH has no interest in ever having a relationship with her ever again. So, now we are dealing with another mental breakdown.


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## resiliencesholdwin

skerzoid said:


> Here is a link for the "180"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 180 for Hurt Spouses
> 
> 
> The 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting , that will help your spouse to see you moving forw...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> healinginfidelity.blogspot.com


Thank you for the link!!


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## Kamstel2

What type of “gifts”??????
That is just odd.


any other news Chicago?
How did you start seeing this new woman?


Hope all is well


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## Buffer

Brother, hope all is going well.
Did you return the gifts? 
Are things going your way? 
Strength to you and respect ✊ 
One day at a time
Buffer


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## Kamstel2

Chicago,
Just checking in on you.
How are you doing?

Hang in there
Stay strong


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## DownByTheRiver

Cheating isn't even a consideration during divorce proceedings except by the wrong spouse but not legally. So there's no point in going to a bunch of shenanigans to try to get evidence on it. I'm afraid this relationship has run its course. she's just over it and it's beyond your control. I'm sorry that it hit you like a ton of bricks, but there's really no coming back from this. She just doesn't feel the same anymore. It may very well not have one thing to do with any affairs she did or did not have. Women know their own mind and don't need an affair partner to make up their minds for them. She's just done and I'm sorry for you. Don't make it messy. Just sign the papers and leave her behind.


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## Kamstel2

Hope you are doing well Chicago. 

based on your last post, you seem to be on the right path.

Stay strong And do what is best FOR YOU!!!
(and enjoy the new woman)


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## Tempocontour

I hope Chicago didn't fall for her gifts.


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## Taxman

Chicago does not appear to be the type that would fall for the cheap gift and the promise of better coming from a WW. I often recommend to clients that are using anonymous forums to go silent as the decree date approaches. No sense in poking sleeping bears so to speak. Given that he filed, and her reaction says that either her facade broke, or more likely AP caught wind of being stuck with WW forever, and baled. Not uncommon. Actually fun to watch, especially if you have a sick sense of humor and an overpowering sense of justice, like me. Chicago, my best wishes for an easy divorce, and a good life with someone who loves and respects you.


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## Chicagohusband2020

Hi Everyone, 

Just wanted to provide a quick update for all those that helped support my through those dark few months. My separated wife and I now only speak via our lawyers. I am happy healthy and the second half of 2020 was probably the best of my life. I woke up most morning feeling 1/2 my age and excited for life. We are getting close to a settlement but still a ways away it seems. I have found someone who respects me and make me truly happy. I am better off. I hope anyone else out there that reads through this thread realize that you can also be better off if in a similar situation. Life is too short to stay with a WW


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## LisaDiane

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just wanted to provide a quick update for all those that helped support my through those dark few months. My separated wife and I now only speak via our lawyers. I am happy healthy and the second half of 2020 was probably the best of my life. I woke up most morning feeling 1/2 my age and excited for life. We are getting close to a settlement but still a ways away it seems. I have found someone who respects me and make me truly happy. I am better off. I hope anyone else out there that reads through this thread realize that you can also be better off if in a similar situation. Life is too short to stay with a WW


YAY!!!! Happy to hear it!!!


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## Evinrude58

Awesomeness!
People going through what you have need to know there’s a better life past the grief.
Good luck with the settlement.


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## Openminded

👍


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## MrQuatto

Outstanding!


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## MattMatt

@Chicagohusband2020 Thanks for letting us know what's happened with you. You are right, your thread is important.


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## lucy999

👏👏👏👏👏


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## Gabriel

I love it when OPs come back and update the group later on! So rewarding to know we helped.


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## TDSC60

Happy to hear you are doing well.

How long until the divorce is final?


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## Tron

Based upon the required separation time, it sounded like he was in North Carolina. 52 weeks after date of separation he could officially request the D? So maybe 3 or 4 months from now?


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## AttaBoy

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just wanted to provide a quick update for all those that helped support my through those dark few months. My separated wife and I now only speak via our lawyers. I am happy healthy and the second half of 2020 was probably the best of my life. I woke up most morning feeling 1/2 my age and excited for life. We are getting close to a settlement but still a ways away it seems. I have found someone who respects me and make me truly happy. I am better off. I hope anyone else out there that reads through this thread realize that you can also be better off if in a similar situation. Life is too short to stay with a WW


You get a heartfelt attaboy for being the man you want to see looking back from the mirror. Did you ever find out how far the physical side of her affair went?


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## Wolfman1968

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just wanted to provide a quick update for all those that helped support my through those dark few months. My separated wife and I now only speak via our lawyers. I am happy healthy and the second half of 2020 was probably the best of my life. I woke up most morning feeling 1/2 my age and excited for life. We are getting close to a settlement but still a ways away it seems. I have found someone who respects me and make me truly happy. I am better off. I hope anyone else out there that reads through this thread realize that you can also be better off if in a similar situation. Life is too short to stay with a WW


Thanks for updating. I think the updates are crucial to the usefulness of this forum.

Other readers who may be going through what you have experienced will be unsure and confused about the best way to go forward. Updates like yours, which tells them how your decisions worked out, are so critical to completing the story of your choices. 

Thank you so much for making this forum useful, and helping to help others.


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## marko polo

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just wanted to provide a quick update for all those that helped support my through those dark few months. My separated wife and I now only speak via our lawyers. I am happy healthy and the second half of 2020 was probably the best of my life. I woke up most morning feeling 1/2 my age and excited for life. We are getting close to a settlement but still a ways away it seems. I have found someone who respects me and make me truly happy. I am better off. I hope anyone else out there that reads through this thread realize that you can also be better off if in a similar situation. Life is too short to stay with a WW


Congratulations!. How has your former wife handled the consequences of her poor choices these last few months - you replacing her with another woman and the divorce moving forward?


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## Kamstel2

Chicago,
Hope everything continues to move in a positive direction, both with the divorce settlement and the new woman in your life.

please keep the updates coming.


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## Numb26

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Just wanted to provide a quick update for all those that helped support my through those dark few months. My separated wife and I now only speak via our lawyers. I am happy healthy and the second half of 2020 was probably the best of my life. I woke up most morning feeling 1/2 my age and excited for life. We are getting close to a settlement but still a ways away it seems. I have found someone who respects me and make me truly happy. I am better off. I hope anyone else out there that reads through this thread realize that you can also be better off if in a similar situation. Life is too short to stay with a WW


Good to hear that you are doing well! It us all in front of you now, make sure to enjoy it


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## Rob_1

Numb26 said:


> Good to hear that you are doing well! It us all in front of you now, make sure to enjoy it


@Numb26: how are you? you've been off this site for a while. I've wondered what happened to you. are you finally into a new relationship that's making you happy or still healing?


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## Numb26

Still healing I think. No new relationship, too busy with the kids and new place. Just taking it one day at a time


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## j1958

Just wanted to say sorry that you are having to deal with the pain. Wether it is an EA or a PA it doesn't change the fact that it's a betrayal. Take care of yourself.


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## Tempocontour

Way to go! Keep moving forward. A couple of post ago you wrote that your stbxw started to leave you gifts and you heard thru friends that she wanted to get back together. Does she know about your gf? What is she saying to you now, even tho thru the lawyer. is she still hoping to get back together?


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## Tempocontour

I reread some past post. You said you planned on calling her AP's HR. Did you ever call? I hope you are doing well.


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## OddOne

NVM. Missed that the answers were already given.


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## Chuck71

Chicago.... how's you been since your last update?


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## Chicagohusband2020

Hi all -

life has been great. Physically, emotionally, financially, sexually I have never been better

divorce was finalized in spring of 2021 and fully slid off by December 2021

sounds weird but my wife having an EA was the best thing to happen to me

onwards and upwards to anyone dealing with an EA


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## Wolfman1968

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all -
> 
> life has been great. Physically, emotionally, financially, sexually I have never been better
> 
> divorce was finalized in spring of 2021 and fully slid off by December 2021
> 
> sounds weird but my wife having an EA was the best thing to happen to me
> 
> onwards and upwards to anyone dealing with an EA


Good for you!

And thanks for updating! I think that really helps this forum. Next time someone ends up in a situation like yours, he can see your story unfold--the doubts you had at first, the lies and maneuvers the WW tried (they all seem to read the same playbook, don't they?), etc. Then, most importantly, how your situation ended. The fact that you pulled the trigger on divorce and now feel better than you ever have. That will help others who are unsure about pulling the trigger as well.


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## Rob_1

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all -
> 
> life has been great. Physically, emotionally, financially, sexually I have never been better
> 
> divorce was finalized in spring of 2021 and fully slid off by December 2021
> 
> sounds weird but my wife having an EA was the best thing to happen to me
> 
> onwards and upwards to anyone dealing with an EA



Congrats, that's the way to go. Stay here and help all those that would need some of your experience wisdom.


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## Works

😬


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## *Deidre*

I didn’t read through this thread but so happy that your ex-wife’s EA awakened you to leaving and now you are so much happier! You took a really hard step and many stay in marriages with cheaters out of fear - hopefully others in your situation read this and see how it’s possible to make it to the other side. Congrats!


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## drencrom

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all -
> 
> life has been great. Physically, emotionally, financially, sexually I have never been better
> 
> divorce was finalized in spring of 2021 and fully slid off by December 2021
> 
> sounds weird but my wife having an EA was the best thing to happen to me
> 
> onwards and upwards to anyone dealing with an EA


Congrats my man, and welcome to the Don't Have To Answer To Anyone Club!!!


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## colingrant

This is a story of infidelity where the betrayed spouse exhibited hope, indecision, limbo, patience, restraint, discipline, conviction, decisiveness and eventually a series of tough decisions after giving his wife the consideration and respect betrayed people often provide to the undeserving cheating spouse.

Their are few winners following infidelity. Even those that reconcile, it's not that they won so much as they survived. In Chicagohusband'2020's story, he made a few strong decisions that led him to victory. For betrayed spouses who are at any stage in the infidelity tornado and unsure how to proceed, read Chicago's thread start to finish and allow his experience to help guide you.

Every situation is different, I understand that but I'm not talking about tact and strategies which will vary depending on family dynamics, income, wealth, kids and other financial and family considerations. 

I'm ONLY referring to inner qualities and strength of mindset that enabled him to retain his dignity, self respect and self worth while being empathetic and understanding of his wayward wife's delusional view of their marriage. A less convicted man would have succumbed and lost his soul to a wife that sought to remove it from him. He wasn't going to allow that to happen.


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## ABHale

Hey CH2020, did you ever inform the POSOM’s company about what he did?


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## ShatteredKat

Chicagohusban2020

Glad to see your most positive update!! 

I knew back in 2020 you would make it "through" and a few weeks into your posts - I thought to myself - he is heading for divorce unless he is a masochist. 

You had a lot of people posting to help and you took the ring and ran with it. Tough it was -

What I wonder is how you didn't see "who she was" during the 15+ years before her fall from grace?

Asking because we ALL need to learn the insight to that sort of person.

Cheers!


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## 86857

Sorry, didn’t realise post was so old


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## Chuck71

Moon.......... n/p...happens often ..... keep giving great advice!


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## sokillme

Chicagohusband2020 said:


> Hi all -
> 
> life has been great. Physically, emotionally, financially, sexually I have never been better
> 
> divorce was finalized in spring of 2021 and fully slid off by December 2021
> 
> sounds weird but my wife having an EA was the best thing to happen to me
> 
> onwards and upwards to anyone dealing with an EA


Pretty typical result.


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## SnowToArmPits

Post #691 from the OP is such a great post:


> Just wanted to update everyone. As many of you had predicted it finally happened. I filed for divorce two week ago and the floodgates opened. Gifts being left at my door, numerous text, phone calls with messages saying she loves me and wants me back, misses Me. She is telling our friends she wants to get back together.


What happened to the mean old controlling OP? Causing all the issues in the marriage?
Were all the gifts, I love you's, I miss you's, telling your friends she wants to get back together, the whole hail Mary thing, a strategy from that goofy therapist she was seeing? Kind of doubt it.


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## colingrant

I never get tired from reading anything on this post. It's my favorite TAM thread. Chicago handled his business with strength and grace.


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## MattMatt

@Chicagohusband2020 How are you doing? Any updates?


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