# Frustrated



## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm new here, but have been doing a lot of reading in the past few days.

About my situation. My wife and I married when we were 21. We were in love and wanted to settle down and have a family. We have 2 young children. We had a pretty good relationship for the first 6 years. We had our share of problems. One thing we had problems with was communication. My wife is the kind of person who keeps anger and frustration inside and doesn't deal with it. The last 2 years have been a struggle. The first year we really didn't do anything to try to fix our problems. We lived our lives and were afraid to tell each other how we felt. Then almost exactly one year ago today she told me she needed a "break". She told me she needed time and space to "figure out who she was" before she could work on our relationship.She told me it was no big deal and a lot of couples "take a break" and move on from there. She told me "I love you but I'm not in love with you". I was, and still am against a separation. I practically begged her to stay and work thing out. She agreed. I tried to talk to her about things but she still wasn't able to open up to me. I wrote countless letters to her thinking maybe it would be easier for her to start be writing back and fourth. Still she was only telling me she needed to fix herself first. 

Two days before this last Christmas I got a phone call for a friend telling me that my wife had been talking to an old friend of his and they were planning on meeting up sometime. I was so angry I went home and confronted her about it. She swore that they had just talked and nothing had happened. She said she was sorry for hurting me and promised not to talk to him again. She said she was "lost". I was very angry and upset, but in the end I told her I was willing to move on from this if she would stop talking to him and start working on us. She agreed. The day after I installed a KL on our PC. She had been very secretive about going on facebook. Three days later I found an explicit facebook chat they had while I was at work. I was furious. I confronted her and told her I would not tolerate that type of behavior. I didn't throw her out, but a part of me wanted to. She said she still wanted to leave but didn't because she knew how much it would hurt me. I asked her at that point to go see a MC. She agreed and we've been doing that once a week for a month now. Things seem to be getting better on the surface. Our MC has us doing "15 minute communication" everyday to work on communication and to help understand what each other wants and needs. She is starting to open up, which makes me think there is hope for us. Last night during our chat she was finally able to tell me the "root" of her problems. She said that a part of her wants to leave and date again and she wont commit to me while she has these feelings. Since we were married young she thinks she has missed out on a big part of her life. It really upsets me she is willing to break apart our family and leave me and the kids so she can go mess around with other guys. The part that bothers me the most is she has been unwilling to try to fix our relationship first. 

I'm trying my hardest to keep it together. Her leaving would be DEVASTATING to the kids (and me for that fact). I don't know where to go from here. I do know that I am unwilling to keep going if she wont commit to trying her hardest to fix our marriage. Sorry for the long post. Just needed to vent.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You can't make her commit to you, the marriage or your family and in reality the harder you try the more you'll push her in the wrong direction. Weird I know, but this is how the mind of a cheater works. 

The only chance you have is to force her to realize that you will not accept her behavior, that you will not be a part of a three person marriage, that she cannot have her cake and eat it to. The hard part is that to get her to realize it you have to mean it, and there is no guarantee that in forcing her to this realization she will pick you and the marriage. If she doesn't you have to be prepared to move on. 

Just off the cuff it sounds like you're battling two issues. One is her affair fogged mind, treat this like you would if you were trying to break her of a drug addiction and the OM is the drug - literally. The second, and this one is just a hunch, is possibly a little bit of nice guy syndrome; doing too much to try to please her, to meet her needs, to get her to stay - all at the expense of you. Hop over to the Men's Clubhouse and do a little reading on it and see if it hit close to home - or download the book, No More Mr. Nice Guy. Just a hunch and I maybe off base on this one. 

Good Luck - remember you can't make her do or choose anything. All you can do is decide what you will and won't accept and how you will react accordingly and make sure she knows this.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

consider two things at the very least-

1) she was likely engaged in her EA/possible PA back in the summer when she gave you the ILYBINILWY speech
2) you need to take a harder line, begging is not getting you anywhere. 


read the newbie link in my signature if you havent already


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

Sounds like your wife is in a fog or limbo land; she needs to be forced to wake up. I would tell her that you don't want an open marriage, and that you can no longer live in the marital limbo and be with a partner that won't commit. That you have concluded that the separation that she wants is a 'time out' from you marital vows, and since you could not take back after she has been with other men.......that you might as well proceed to a separation on a track towards divorce so she can live the life she wants.

Then implement the 180, separate your finances, and initiate division of assets, debt, propose custody/visitation, child support and disposition of your home. See an attorney. 

The idea is to get your wife to see what life would be, wake her up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

casemx said:


> I'm new here, but have been doing a lot of reading in the past few days.
> 
> About my situation. My wife and I married when we were 21. We were in love and wanted to settle down and have a family. We have 2 young children. We had a pretty good relationship for the first 6 years. We had our share of problems. One thing we had problems with was communication. My wife is the kind of person who keeps anger and frustration inside and doesn't deal with it. The last 2 years have been a struggle. The first year we really didn't do anything to try to fix our problems. We lived our lives and were afraid to tell each other how we felt. Then almost exactly one year ago today she told me she needed a "break". She told me she needed time and space to "figure out who she was" before she could work on our relationship.She told me it was no big deal and a lot of couples "take a break" and move on from there. She told me "I love you but I'm not in love with you". I was, and still am against a separation. I practically begged her to stay and work thing out. She agreed. I tried to talk to her about things but she still wasn't able to open up to me. I wrote countless letters to her thinking maybe it would be easier for her to start be writing back and fourth. Still she was only telling me she needed to fix herself first.
> 
> ...


 
Everything you said in the first paragraph pointed to the bold part. I hate to say this, but this seems to always be the case. If it wasn't for your friend telling you, you'd still be racking your brain trying to figure out what you can do to make things better when sometimes people end up married to a spouse that wants to just* stop- take a break from marriage- and play house somewhere else-* It is almost like they are trying to make you feel bad so they can go out and DO DIRT. I'm sorry about that. - ok, let me finish reading your post............


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

casemx said:


> I'm new here, but have been doing a lot of reading in the past few days.
> 
> About my situation. My wife and I married when we were 21. We were in love and wanted to settle down and have a family. We have 2 young children. We had a pretty good relationship for the first 6 years. We had our share of problems. One thing we had problems with was communication. My wife is the kind of person who keeps anger and frustration inside and doesn't deal with it. The last 2 years have been a struggle. The first year we really didn't do anything to try to fix our problems. We lived our lives and were afraid to tell each other how we felt. Then almost exactly one year ago today she told me she needed a "break". She told me she needed time and space to "figure out who she was" before she could work on our relationship.She told me it was no big deal and a lot of couples "take a break" and move on from there. She told me "I love you but I'm not in love with you". I was, and still am against a separation. I practically begged her to stay and work thing out. She agreed. I tried to talk to her about things but she still wasn't able to open up to me. I wrote countless letters to her thinking maybe it would be easier for her to start be writing back and fourth. Still she was only telling me she needed to fix herself first.
> 
> ...


 
Ok, I read all of it. I'm so sorry but it seemed as if she was hding things and going to do her dirt, keep you because she saw it as her leaving you would hurt you. But when she started going to counseling, she opened up and was honest with what was obvious all along. It hurts because it sounds so selfish but it is better to let her go and deal with these things that won't go away. You're devastated now but you'd be way more things than that if you tried to hold on and beg her to stay . Staying won't keep her from doing what she feels she is missing out on. I'm so so sorry


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

My ex-wife also wanted to date others as if she were single.I agreed and divorced her because "dating" wasn't part of our marriage vows.I wasn't prepared to spend untold years of uncertainty and pain while she tried to find herself.I wouldn't be married to someone who wanted to change the boundaries of our marriage whenever it may suit their own purpose.Being self-centered and a good marriage don't go hand in glove.One or the other has to go.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Sigma1299 - I guess I do have nice guy syndrome. I don't know how to act differently. She has been my best friend for so many years.

I understand I cant control my wife. I honestly feel like we can be happy again if we work on things. That's whats been bothering the most, she's ready to leave before we have had the opportunity to give us a chance. In my mind our family is at least worth a chance. We go to see the MC tonight and I'm sure the main topic will be her not being able to move forward with wanting to see what else is out there first. She mentioned she wanted to talk about it with her.


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## asylumspadez (Jan 17, 2012)

You cant force her to be with you and in the end only she can choose if she wants to save your marriage and your family. Give her a straight up choice - Either work on saving your marriage or get divorced because I have no doubt that she will keep on contacting that guy behind your back. She sounds like she wants out of the marriage, Sorry but its true.

Also dont allow her to stay because she is afraid of hurting you. Only allow her to stay if she loves you, Dont accept anything else because you will always be second guessing her. Give her a week to think about it and tell her to think hard because once she has choosen (Marriage or Divorce), she cant take it back.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

calif_hope said:


> Sounds like your wife is in a fog or limbo land; she needs to be forced to wake up. I would tell her that you don't want an open marriage, and that you can no longer live in the marital limbo and be with a partner that won't commit. That you have concluded that the separation that she wants is a 'time out' from you marital vows, and since you could not take back after she has been with other men.......that you might as well proceed to a separation on a track towards divorce so she can live the life she wants.
> 
> Then implement the 180, separate your finances, and initiate division of assets, debt, propose custody/visitation, child support and disposition of your home. See an attorney.
> 
> ...


I started to do the 180 a few days ago. I stopped telling her I loved her. I am also making an extra effort to be happy and confident around her and the kids. I am trying my hardest to convince myself things will be OK with out her. That's been the hardest part. 

I've been contemplating getting my own checking and savings account for a while now. I don't agree with how she has been handling our finances. Its my fault for letting her continue to do them. I was concerned that doing that would make her think I was starting to give up.

The whole situation is really strange to me. We don't fight a lot. We talk about daily stuff as normal. We laugh and joke a lot. Everything on the surface seems so normal. That makes it even harder for me.


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## ashamed74 (Jan 30, 2012)

casemx said:


> I'm new here, but have been doing a lot of reading in the past few days.
> 
> About my situation. My wife and I married when we were 21. We were in love and wanted to settle down and have a family. We have 2 young children. We had a pretty good relationship for the first 6 years. We had our share of problems. One thing we had problems with was communication. My wife is the kind of person who keeps anger and frustration inside and doesn't deal with it. The last 2 years have been a struggle. The first year we really didn't do anything to try to fix our problems. We lived our lives and were afraid to tell each other how we felt. Then almost exactly one year ago today she told me she needed a "break". She told me she needed time and space to "figure out who she was" before she could work on our relationship.She told me it was no big deal and a lot of couples "take a break" and move on from there. She told me "I love you but I'm not in love with you". I was, and still am against a separation. I practically begged her to stay and work thing out. She agreed. I tried to talk to her about things but she still wasn't able to open up to me. I wrote countless letters to her thinking maybe it would be easier for her to start be writing back and fourth. Still she was only telling me she needed to fix herself first.
> 
> ...


When I read stories like this I relive past relationships in my younger days before I was a cheater. The coldness of the women I had strong feelings for went a long way to making me a cheater. I came to the conclusion in those days that women can decide in a small instant that they no longer have feelings for a man after telling him otherwise right up to that point. The everythings great but I have found someone else so see you later. I really questioned just how deep a womans love for a man could be. I perceived women as being very shallow. Seemed like the first sign of a little boredom or a better looking guy came along and they were done and moving on for something new or the greener pastures. I didn't witness much loyalty in my relationships when I was a younger guy. I came to the conclusion of trust no one and never go "all in" with anybody because in the end she will change her mind at moments notice and things will be over. It's taken so much for me to feel my wife's love for me is truly genuine. Even though both of us have been unfaithful I doubt I will ever trust another woman's love for me the way I do hers. We've been through so much and so many rough times and still making it.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Remind her what life will be like if she decides to leave because she wants to screw around....exposure especially letting the kids know that she wanted to do this instead of keeping th family together. Find out all you can about this other guy and if exposing can hurt him as well.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

ShootMePlz! said:


> Remind her what life will be like if she decides to leave because she wants to screw around....exposure especially letting the kids know that she wanted to do this instead of keeping th family together. Find out all you can about this other guy and if exposing can hurt him as well.


Telling the kids is really not an option, the one is too young to understand and the older one has a bunch of emotional problems to begin with.

The OM is a different story. I had an opportunity to end his career, I did not do it.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

casemx said:


> Telling the kids is really not an option, the one is too young to understand and the older one has a bunch of emotional problems to begin with.
> 
> The OM is a different story. Being an old friend of a friend I know pretty much everything about him. He is a military guy with a documented history of screwing around with married women. I had the opportunity to pretty much end his career a few weeks ago. I did not do it. He is a half a continent away and I wanted him to stay there. I figured if he got kicked out he would move back local.


*He is a half a continent away and I wanted him to stay there. I figured if he got kicked out he would move back local.*

You should have done that..Doit if you still can.
That statement is seriusly the most comen mistake
Husband´s do..The think OM is out to romance wife
away from her husband.So he can then married her..

So far from the truth. In fact it is very rear that is the reason.
So try not to e afraid of that.Simply aint gonna happen.
Even if you´r right now crazy wife seem to belive it.
The reason??Aint so. Hard for you to figure out..
Dont wanna point it out my self.Would feel like i
kinda would rubit in..

You wrote
*guy with a documented history of screwing around with married women*

Do you still think he has serious "nobel" intrest in
you´r wife??


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Well, just a quick update. Had our MC meeting last night and there was good and bad. She told me again that she is hesitant to move forward because a part of her wants to know whats its like to be on her own. I'm not completely sure she has thought about what that's meant. She doesn't make enough money to have her own place so she says she would move back with her parents. She said a part of her doesn't want to do that because it will hurt the kids. 

We did a lot of talking about what got us to this point. She was unhappy that I was unwilling (at the time) to do certain things like go to some family functions and the like. I thought I was too busy and had more important things to do at the time. That really upset her and made her shut down. The thing that absolutely floored me was they way she has viewed the past three years of our life. She is only focusing on the few bad parts. In her mind there was no good, which I believe to be absolutely false. She actually told the MC that our second child was "unplanned". She was on fertility meds and we had sex that particular night because she was ovulating! How the F is that unplanned? Maybe unexpected because we did have problems getting pregnant, but unplanned? WTF. I called her on that and she didn't have anything to say. She swears there was no other man at that point. Instead of talking to me about the issues at hand she shut down and distanced herself. I am so angry. She is lying to herself about what really took place in our relationship. I'm in no way trying to say I wasn't an ******* at times, because I was. It really upsets me she doesn't see any good in the last three years. I saw her have fun and be happy with my own eyes.

On the EA front, she told me it was going on for one month before I found out. She swears it's over with and she's sorry for hurting me. I don't know if I believe her, but that's what she said. I guess all I can do is prepare myself for a possible divorce. I still don't want that at this point but I don't know if she's ever going to be willing to put effort into "us" again. We are going to continue to do our "15 minute talks" and try to get every thing off our respective chest's. Our MC thinks we should wait 2 weeks and then come back. She thinks for right now we should just take things one week at a time. I'll stop there for now, this post is long enough LOL.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

when someone engages in an affair- a truly hurtful thing to do to someone- they will rewrite history and demonize the spouse in order to justify their own despicable actions


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

"She want to see how it is living on her own". What this really means is that she wants a place of her own when she engage in the single life and be with a new boyfriend without trying to hide it.


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## asylumspadez (Jan 17, 2012)

bryanp said:


> "She want to see how it is living on her own". What this really means is that she wants a place of her own when she engage in the single life and be with a new boyfriend without trying to hide it.


:iagree:

She clearly has problems with your marriage and her focusing on the bad things and not the good things is a key sign of this. To be honest, Give her what she wants - A seperation. It may hurt but I think she needs it and I dont think your marriage will improve with out it. Have her move in with her parents for a month and see how things go between the time of you (Keep going to the MC through out the seperation). Also put a PI on her and see what she does during your time apart.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

don't give her a separation, if she moves out file for divorce


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> don't give her a separation, if she moves out file for divorce


:iagree:

You don't have to finalize if she comes out of it and you don't want to.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The few men and women who immediately filed for divorce after their spouse had expressed a desire to leave them, were in most cases successfully able to break their spouse's fog and had him/her change his/her tune when reality reared its ugly head. Suddenly hubby/wifey didn't look to shabby, gee I wonder why?

Separation is often a way to have the affair out in the open. In the mind of the unfaithful spouse, he/she is not cheating since he/she is separated from his/her spouse. All the benefits of marriage and being single all rolled up in one. Nice, isn't it?


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

morituri said:


> The few men and women who immediately filed for divorce after their spouse had expressed a desire to leave them, were in most cases successfully able to break their spouse's fog and had him/her change his/her tune when reality reared its ugly head. Suddenly hubby/wifey didn't look to shabby, gee I wonder why?
> 
> Separation is often a way to have the affair out in the open. In the mind of the unfaithful spouse, he/she is not cheating since he/she is separated from his/her spouse. All the benefits of marriage and being single all rolled up in one. Nice, isn't it?


I completely agree. The way she has talked about separation in the past leads me to believe this is what she wants. She says it no big deal and lots of couples "take a break" and get back together afterward. That might be true for other couples in different situations. She has always talked about separation and getting back together in the same sentence. I've made up my mind, if she chooses to separate a divorce will follow. Especially since the reason she wants to take a break is to "be on her own" and to "know what it feels like to be single". I'm unsure if I should tell her right now. I'm guessing I probably should. I worry she will see that as an empty threat to try to make get her to commit to "us". I don't know if its better to let her know exactly how I feel, ever if she doesn't believe it or have piece of mind that I know what I will do if she decides to leave. Any thoughts?

The other thing I forgot to mention is that her doctor gave her an RX for an antidepressant that she is going to start taking this weekend. Thats the other thing that makes me want to wait to tell her exactly whats going on in my head.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

casemx said:


> That might be true for other couples in different situations.


actually it's not true in most situations, separation is usually a delayed divorce


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

casemx said:


> I'm unsure if I should tell her right now. I'm guessing I probably should. I worry she will see that as an empty threat to try to make get her to commit to "us".



then do this-


either see a lawyer and get some papers drawn or go online and print out starting paperwork for your state

you're absolutely right that an empty threat will not be taken seriously, the papers will make it VERY clear that it is not. if she still wants to go then let her and continue filing- read mori's link on "just let them go"


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

casemx said:


> The other thing I forgot to mention is that her doctor gave her an RX for an antidepressant that she is going to start taking this weekend. Thats the other thing that makes me want to wait to tell her exactly whats going on in my head.



meds usually take close to a month to really kick in, and I doubt the depression is "making" her do this, her affair is the bigger cause


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

File for divorce and have her served. This will show her that you are truly serious and will not allow her to play games with you. The divorce will take months to finalize and she will either step up to the plate or do nothing. Either way you will have an answer and avoid the hell we call limbo.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

casemex
"She actually told the MC that our second child was "unplanned". She was on fertility meds and we had sex that particular night because she was ovulating! How the F is that unplanned?"

From my past experience this statement would call for a paternity test. Perhaps she's saying the child wasn't planned by her and her stud?


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

morituri said:


> File for divorce and have her served. This will show her that you are truly serious and will not allow her to play games with you. The divorce will take months to finalize and she will either step up to the plate or do nothing. Either way you will have an answer and avoid the hell we call limbo.


I understand what you are saying. I just dont know if I can do it at this point. I feel like I should wait a little longer to see what happens. There are sign's she wants to work thing out. I dont know WTF to do.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

My suggestion is to keep your cards close to your vest. Don't divulge anything to her.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I understand if you want to wait but as I said before, it takes time for the divorce to become finalized and the petition can be extended or withdrawn before the time comes to sign. In some states or countries, it can take a few years before it finally becomes finalized.

Your life, your choice.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> "The whole situation is really strange to me. We don't fight a lot. We talk about daily stuff as normal. We laugh and joke a lot. Everything on the surface seems so normal. That makes it even harder for me."


Everything on the surface seems normal…but it's not. It is just the tip of the iceberg. What has she actually told you about her affair? My wife would only admit what I could prove…nothing more. She TT'd or denied everything. She insisted for months that it they were only friends and she wasn't in contact with him anymore. I found out 6 months after D day #2 that they were having a full PA. It was going on for over a year and the EA was a year longer then that! She could interact with me and or children on a daily basis and act perfectly normal. She put no effort into fixing what she broke. It was all about her…pure selfishness. 

After my D days with my WW, home life was just like yours. This is her way of keeping the peace with you until she can decide what or who she wants. She would keep me just happy enough so I wouldn't D her. I was like you in that I wanted to keep what I had…wife and family. I hung in there for over a year trying to everything to R while she sat on the fence and just soaked it up while giving nothing in return. I was pure hell.



> "We did a lot of talking about what got us to this point. She was unhappy that I was unwilling (at the time) to do certain things like go to some family functions and the like. I thought I was too busy and had more important things to do at the time. That really upset her and made her shut down. The thing that absolutely floored me was they way she has viewed the past three years of our life. She is only focusing on the few bad parts. In her mind there was no good, which I believe to be absolutely false…I saw her have fun and be happy with my own eyes."


Mine did this too. She is rewriting your history to justify what she is doing. She will only see the valleys, not the peaks. She is emotionally detached from you. Mine also blame shifted in order to minimize her guilt. So in her mind her cheating was my fault. She actually said this at one point. This is the normal cheaters script. 

Now is not the time to be soft on her. Take it from me and please learn from my mistakes. I tried the softer approach and she dragged her feet and TT'd me for almost a year. This wore me down emotionally and physically…limbo sucks! I lost 13 lbs in the first 3 weeks alone. This is not living…it is dying slowly and painfully...and she doesn't care because it's all about her right now. Don't let her do this to you.

If she is in the affair fog you can't ease her out of it. Your only chance is to shock her out by dropping reality on her like a ton of bricks. The reality of what she will be losing. Divorce papers will do that. It could snap her out of it. You need to regain her respect and control the situation…not her.

Start a hard 180...work and focus on yourself.

Tell her if she wants to go out and date then she can do it as a single woman.

If you file for divorce you must intend to follow through if she doesn't change. You can halt the process is she becomes truly remorseful and wakes up in time. I know it may sound drastic right now but look at things like this.... 

If you file for D and she agrees, then you will know where she stands and you will know that there is nothing you can do to save your marriage. 

If she becomes repentant and shows full remorse then you can set about repairing your marriage. Either way…you will have your answer.

Your story sounds very similar to mine. I have wasted over a year in limbo waiting for my wife to wake up and realize what she is throwing away. 

You must also think about the future…with her if you stay. Can you ever trust her again? Will you always be wondering where she is, who she is with or talking to, what she is doing? How long will you be checking up on her? Emails, fakebook, texts? Remember, you have not hit the anger phase yet. This is not living. 

Casemx, Please don't make the same mistakes that I did.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Decimated said:


> Everything on the surface seems normal…but it's not. It is just the tip of the iceberg. What has she actually told you about her affair? My wife would only admit what I could prove…nothing more. She TT'd or denied everything. She insisted for months that it they were only friends and she wasn't in contact with him anymore. I found out 6 months after D day #2 that they were having a full PA. It was going on for over a year and the EA was a year longer then that! She could interact with me and or children on a daily basis and act perfectly normal. She put no effort into fixing what she broke. It was all about her…pure selfishness.
> 
> After my D days with my WW, home life was just like yours. This is her way of keeping the peace with you until she can decide what or who she wants. She would keep me just happy enough so I wouldn't D her. I was like you in that I wanted to keep what I had…wife and family. I hung in there for over a year trying to everything to R while she sat on the fence and just soaked it up while giving nothing in return. I was pure hell.
> 
> ...


She hasn't told me much about the affair. She says it was going on for a month before I found out. I dont know if I believe her. She insists there was no PA. Thats all I know. 

Limbo does suck, I've lost 21 pounds since 12\23\11 (dday)

I understand at this point that she is probably just giving me TT until she can make up her mind on what she wants. I am doing the 180. 

Thanks to everybody for taking the time to respond. This forum has been a huge help!


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm still so confused. We had a good weekend together. We spent some time together and generally had a good time.We sat and talked for an hour on Friday night. Not really about us, but about friends and thoughts and the like. We haven't done that in a while. I just don't know where to go from here. I really need her to tell me how she wants to move forward. I'm just afraid to ask. She's told me in the past that she doesn't like to be pressured into making decisions. She's been "fence sitting" for about a year now. I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE! One part of me want's to put my foot down and demand an answer. The other part is seeing that she has been trying the things our MC has laid out for us and seems to be making progress. I'm afraid pressuring her will make her "close up" emotionally again. The more I think about it, the more uncertain I get. I'd love some advise right about now.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Do you sense remorse, true remorse from her? Or is she biding time? 

The fact that she is unwilling to be open about details is telling of her true feelings. I think you need to nudge her over the top of the hill. Feck what the MC tells you. You need to lay it on the line with her.

Read Struggling4Forever's threads. His wife rugswept her affair for eleven years at the urging of the MC. He put up with it and he is close to meltdown now.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

spudster said:


> Do you sense remorse, true remorse from her? Or is she biding time?
> 
> The fact that she is unwilling to be open about details is telling of her true feelings. I think you need to nudge her over the top of the hill. Feck what the MC tells you. You need to lay it on the line with her.
> 
> ...


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Remember MC is worthless if your wife is still in contact with the OM.

Sounds to me like the MC doesn't want to call your wife on her b.s. That is facilitating rugsweeping and you should confront the MC that this is what s/he is doing.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

BTW.... you are being way too passive.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

spudster said:


> BTW.... you are being way too passive.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. In what way?


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> I'm not sure what you mean by that. In what way?


Read what you wrote (below)...out loud to yourself. 



> I'm still so confused. We had a good weekend together. We spent some time together and generally had a good time.We sat and talked for an hour on Friday night. Not really about us, but about friends and thoughts and the like. We haven't done that in a while. I just don't know where to go from here. I really need her to tell me how she wants to move forward. I'm just afraid to ask. She's told me in the past that she doesn't like to be pressured into making decisions. She's been "fence sitting" for about a year now. I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE! One part of me want's to put my foot down and demand an answer. The other part is seeing that she has been trying the things our MC has laid out for us and seems to be making progress. I'm afraid pressuring her will make her "close up" emotionally again. The more I think about it, the more uncertain I get. I'd love some advise right about now.


Why are you afraid? She has hurt you in every concievable way a woman can hurt a man. Are you afraid of her? What is it you are afraid of?


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

spudster said:


> Read what you wrote (below)...out loud to yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you afraid? She has hurt you in every concievable way a woman can hurt a man. Are you afraid of her? What is it you are afraid of?


No, i'm not afraid of her. I'm afraid that if I take a hard line stance now, 1 month after dday, we will loose the progress we've already made. I wish I would have thrown her out when I first found out about the EA, but I didnt.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> The fact that she cant tell me she wants to work things out with me should probably be my biggest clue.


What progress?


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

spudster said:


> What progress?


Fair point well made.

She hasn't told me "I want to fix things" when we talk about it. She goes back to the point that a part of her wants to know what its like to be on her own and date. She says she doesnt want to commit to me 100% while she has these feelings. But on the other hand she's willing to go to see the MC and I can see her doing things, like opening up and communicating, that makes me think she's starting to try. I'm worried changing my tune now (even though I want to) will kill any progress being made.

I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative. Just trying to accurately describe whats going on im my head. I really appreciate every bodies help.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> She goes back to the point that a part of her wants to know what its like to be on her own and date.


There is your answer... in a nutshell... nothing else to say. 

She should have never married you in the first place. She is incapable of commitment, and that is why you can never trust her. 

Pack it in bud. You're not going to win this fight.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

*She hasn't told me "I want to fix things" when we talk about it. She goes back to the point that a part of her wants to know what its like to be on her own and date. She says she doesnt want to commit to me 100% while she has these feelings.*

Try ask her this..Ok honey i understand what you have been saying.(see above)
But however, im not trying to getting into a argument.
But just please help me undertand this..

This has been going on for a long time now.
So why asume that i should be 100% sure about this.
And accept trying,and nothing to show fore..

Im entitled to move on and live.And grow with someone
that loves me and wants to be with me.and not having me
second guess,and trying forever as it seem´s,as of today.

So should i really be 100% sure that I/we ,will be fine.
Anytime soon??


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

How long are you willing to stay in this limbo? This 1/2 in 1/2 out will last as long as you allow, my advice is to change the conversation. Your wife says she can't commit to you as long as she has the desire to be on her own and date others. 

Understand this is not to put her in the corner....share with her that your hear her.....but she needs to here you also....that you understand that sometimes a separation is good for the marriage but the only way you would agree would be that the marriage vows remain in tact.....since she wants to date others, you cannot accept the separation and that the conversations with the MC Shoukd focus on how to divorce as friends for the kids sake because if she cheats - she would never - ever be your friend - just the mother of your children.

Your just adding conversation points - no deadlines or ultimatums - just talk, serous talk. Tell her your going to see an attorney to get info regarding depression and divorce in your state.......keep the 180.........

Consider this an intervention to wake her up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Reading your thread reminds me of dealing with my kids when they were teenagers. One of them decorated my car, which he was allowed to drive, with stickers all over the darn thing. When I confronted him, his response was ," I need to express myself!" My response was to express himself on his own car. By the way, he grew up to be a fine man. My point is, that it's time for some tough love. She wants to go out and date like a single person. Well, offer her that opportunity, with all the responsibility, risk, and pain that it entails. She seems to be functioning at the maturity level of a 16 year-old. Treat her like one. Show her the door to her freedom; then change the locks.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks everybody. I pretty much agree with everything said above. 

We talked last night and I reiterated how upset I was about the EA. She had a smart ass response of "you don't think I know I hurt you". She changed the subject. She only wants to talk about the things that got us here. 

Tonight is the night. I'm going to tell her I need and answer. I was going to wait to drop the D bomb until she told me she wants to leave, but I dont think I can. She really has two options. Commit to fixing things with me or leave and I file for D. I'm in pain just thinking about doing this but it has to be done. I cant live like this anymore. I deserve much better.


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## skip76 (Aug 30, 2011)

Sounds better but you need to make both options difficult. Obviously if she leaves things become difficult but the decision to stay will bw work. She will need to put in effort and repair this marriage. Maybe even a poly so she you aren't back in a year so wondering about the details and lies. From the outside I would leave and start a new but I don't know you or her. This is a decision of a lifetime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

casemx said:


> Thanks everybody. I pretty much agree with everything said above.
> 
> We talked last night and I reiterated how upset I was about the EA. She had a smart ass response of "you don't think I know I hurt you". She changed the subject. She only wants to talk about the things that got us here.
> 
> Tonight is the night. I'm going to tell her I need and answer. I was going to wait to drop the D bomb until she told me she wants to leave, but I dont think I can. She really has two options. Commit to fixing things with me or leave and I file for D. I'm in pain just thinking about doing this but it has to be done. I cant live like this anymore. I deserve much better.


You need to have your response ready to go. Practice them, even write it out if needed.

If she stays with separation, tell her you are sorry she chose that, but hope she is happy. Then tell her you will schedule an appointment to see a lawyer about the divorce. Also ask you wife when she is leaving the house. Be calm and don't discuss anything but the details of divorcing.

If she wants to stay, be prepared with the list of things she needs to do. No Contact with the OM, passwords, the complete truth, etc. Again, stay calm and don't raise your voice. 

Good luck.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Well, I told her. I started by asking her where she was at in her head right now. She said her mind still goes back and fourth. One day she wants to stay and work things out, the next she wants to go. I told her that this has been going on for over a year now and its time to make a decision. Before I could finish the sentence she interrupted and said " I know, or your going to make it for me". I politely said no, this is a decision you have to make. Either you commit 100% of your energy to try to fix this marriage or you choose to be on your own. I told her I didn't want her to leave but I couldn't stop her. I told her that I needed to be truthful with her and that if she chose to leave I would file for D immediately. She was stunned. She started to tear up but just shook her head and told me she understood.I told her I've been tortured enough and I would not sit at home with the kids and wonder when or if she was coming home. I know that would be hell for me. I guess we will see what happens. She seemed cheery and gave me a little hug as she left for work this morning. I feel SOOOOOOOO much better. I just want to end the feelings I've had for the past year.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Give her a little time to make a decision but not much. If she won't choose you and the marriage then she is choosing the OM, in that case go ahead and file. Keep the momentum in your control.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Yes, if she hesitates too much with making the choice, you have your answer.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

What a rough day so far. My emotions are all over the place. It's so hard to wait for her decision. I've been trying to prepare myself for the worst. It's so hard to comprehend that losing her is probably the best thing for me. But I deserve way better than this. I think I've read the 180 list 50 times already today. What have you guys done to try to help get you through this?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

casemx said:


> What a rough day so far. My emotions are all over the place. It's so hard to wait for her decision. I've been trying to prepare myself for the worst. It's so hard to comprehend that losing her is probably the best thing for me. But I deserve way better than this. I think I've read the 180 list 50 times already today. What have you guys done to try to help get you through this?


You need to realize you are the one actually putting yourself through this. The problem is that you haven't accepted that she isn't actually interested or committed to being with you. She's only been able to string you along and fence sit, leaving you miserable and without any sense of input to the decision. You have put yourself here.

And you can free yourself.

You want it to be different than you know it is. You keep hoping it will change. Sorry, but it won't. She has no motivation ordesre to change. She is completely in the drivers seat as a dictator of how or where the relationship goes.

All because you allow her to treat you like this.

You will be so much happier and actually begin to heal your soul and self esteem by simply walking away from this relationship. 

Even if she gave lip service to choosing you, there just is no passion there from her. None. You stay because you feel like you've got too much invested to leave? 

Stop the he3ll and you choose to leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Case, I got through it by finally checking in with a therapist who steered me into mediation. I learned to detach from the things that tormented me. Not for everyone, but effective if you can do it.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Shaggy, I know I'm doing it to myself. Had a bad day yesterday. Got home from work and had a great night with the family. That make's it so much harder to let her go. I am hurt that she cheated. I am hurt that she seems like she doesnt know what she wants right now. When I'm away from her I have all the confidence in the world that I can move on without her and I deserve much better. But seeing her smile and laugh gives me a glimmer of hope that she will snap out of this fog she's in. 

I think I'm going to start going to IC. I'm at the point that I'm having problems doing my job. I read on here all day to try to make myself feel better instead of working. My mind is a traffic jam of a million thoughts. I need to try to get my head straight.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

casemx said:


> I'm still so confused. We had a good weekend together. We spent some time together and generally had a good time.We sat and talked for an hour on Friday night. Not really about us, but about friends and thoughts and the like. We haven't done that in a while. I just don't know where to go from here. I really need her to tell me how she wants to move forward. I'm just afraid to ask. She's told me in the past that she doesn't like to be pressured into making decisions. She's been "fence sitting" for about a year now. I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE! One part of me want's to put my foot down and demand an answer. The other part is seeing that she has been trying the things our MC has laid out for us and seems to be making progress. I'm afraid pressuring her will make her "close up" emotionally again. The more I think about it, the more uncertain I get. I'd love some advise right about now.


*But you don't take it. You hear it. Agree with it. Then don't do it. Your wife wants a break from your marriage. Don't you understand that this can be an object lesson to her. Let her have her break. Let her have a break from your money, from your bed, from your house. Doing the 180 is great. But she needs to go to the mall and find out she has NO CREDIT. Then she goes to the beauty salon, woops NO DEBT CARD. DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR BETA MALE TACTICS ARE ENABLING HER? She is actually thinking she can have you supporting her while she goes and plumbs the depth of her vagina with other men. 

I am advising that you give her one helluva pavlov's dog experience. Give her the separation. But she moves out. The kids stay. She gets a job (yeah with 17% unemployment, can you say "would you like fries with that" *Ding* *Ding*) and she experiences the glory of single motherhood. Give her the weekend with the kids, so there are no romantic weekends. DO NOT BABYSIT, WHILE SHE GOES OUT, YOU'VE GOT PLANS.

So far everything you've done up to the 180 has been completely wrong. YOU CAN'T LOVE HER INTO NOT SKREWING OTHER GUYS. All you can do is remove any protection and security she has.

In closing I would like to shake you and slap you upside your melon. SHE HAS TOLD YOU THAT SHE WANTS TO PLAY THE HORE FOR A WHILE, THEN WHEN SHE IS TIRED OF IT SHE WILL COME BACK, "ALL'S FORGIVEN". She has no respect for you and has literally asked you to move over and make room in her vagina for someone else. 

Wake up, my friend. Your beta male tactics are gonna lose you your family.*


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Diviorce doesn't have to ean loosing you family. It means loosing your cheating selfish uncommitted wife. Dump the wife, keep the family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I think casemx' situation is a little different. She hasn't had sex with anyone yet. Casemx has been enabling his wife's imagination to envision having a "cake eaters" life, because his response to her has been so beta. He needs to happily, give her the opportunity to experience single life. With all its warts. Don't get me wrong. I would like to see him change her mind. But she is in "I'm gonna get to skrew other guys with my husbands approval". He needs to change that attitude to "OMG, I AM A SINGLE MOTHER LIVING ALONE WITH NO MONEY, NO LOVE, NO FAMILY. WOW! MAYBE I SHOULD RETHINK MY GOALS.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Here's something for you to keep in mind. Two thirds of all divorce filings are done by women. This means that there is twice the chance of your DW(WW) being the one filing for divorce, asking for custody of the kids as well as spousal and child support - money that many times does not go for the children's needs.

Like it or not, you are at war. You can either wave the white flag of surrender or you can fight and come out victorious. Your choice.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Initfortheduration said:


> I think casemx' situation is a little different. She hasn't had sex with anyone yet. Casemx has been enabling his wife's imagination to envision having a "cake eaters" life, because his response to her has been so beta. He needs to happily, give her the opportunity to experience single life. With all its warts. Don't get me wrong. I would like to see him change her mind. But she is in "I'm gonna get to skrew other guys with my husbands approval". He needs to change that attitude to "OMG, I AM A SINGLE MOTHER LIVING ALONE WITH NO MONEY, NO LOVE, NO FAMILY. WOW! MAYBE I SHOULD RETHINK MY GOALS.


I'm not sure if that approach will work. She does work full time. She doesnt make enough to support having her own place, but she has a mom and dad that will gladly give her a free place to stay for as long as she wants. She is very close to her parents and it would not bother her to live there one bit. It would be just as convenient for her to live there as it would to stay home. It's closer to her work and she would have full time babysitters at her disposal. Thats why I dont just want to throw her out. Her life will be easier living with her parents !


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

casemx said:


> I'm not sure if that approach will work. She does work full time. She doesnt make enough to support having her own place, but she has a mom and dad that will gladly give her a free place to stay for as long as she wants. She is very close to her parents and it would not bother her to live there one bit. It would be just as convenient for her to live there as it would to stay home. It's closer to her work and she would have full time babysitters at her disposal. Thats why I dont just want to throw her out. Her life will be easier living with her parents !


Are you sure about that? Because living with the parents sounds great in theory, until you start having to live under their rules again. And nothing says success in life like telling people you moved back in with mommy and daddy.

You need to stop making excuses and do what needs to be done. Ask her tonight what her decision is. If she has not made one, make it for her and kick her out. Tell her you will get the divorce papers drawn up. If she is not interested in working with you, start the process of getting on with your life.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Are you sure about that? Because living with the parents sounds great in theory, until you start having to live under their rules again. And nothing says success in life like telling people you moved back in with mommy and daddy.


Yes, I'm positive. Her parents are some of our best friends. We actually lived there for a few months in between moving out of our apartment and buying the house we're in now. I spend a ton of time with her father doing various things and she spends a ton of time with her mom and sister, going shopping and going out to lunch and things like that. We all have been very close from the time I met my wife. It would not bother her at all living there again. There are not really any "rules" to abide by, just common courtesy and doing your part around the house.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

You sure they'll be so eager if they know why she's moving back? My wife and I are also very close with my parents, living with them also after a natural disaster here some years ago. I know my parents would rather see me starve on the street than help me if the reason I was in need was because I had hurt/left/been kicked out by my wife. 

They have told me repeatedly that if I made them pick between us I'd lose.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> You sure they'll be so eager if they know why she's moving back? My wife and I are also very close with my parents, living with them also after a natural disaster here some years ago. I know my parents would rather see me starve on the street than help me if the reason I was in need was because I had hurt/left/been kicked out by my wife.
> 
> They have told me repeatedly that if I made them pick between us I'd lose.


I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about the situation, they would probably show some tough love, but they would make it a easy as possible for her. I know my wife has asked her mom if she could move back in if need be and they said yes. I'm 99.99999% sure she has not told her mom about the EA. She is very afraid of people finding out about it. She's told me so. Some of my guy friends have mutual friends with some of her friends and she does not want anyone to find out. She is really worried my buddies are going to tell people and it will make it back to people she knows. I know some people on here will tell me to shout it from the roof tops, but thats not my style.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

All I'll say is that when I was caught/confessed my EA, the next morning I also confessed to my wife's mother, in my wife's presence; and to my parents in my wife's presence. There were lots of reasons but one of them was so my wife could see me be held accountable and take ownership and also know that I was committed to the marriage. Maybe getting your wife to do the same - if she will - would be a good step in the right direction. If she won't it makes me doubt her commitment to reconciliation, but that's kind of the theme of this thread now.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

casemx said:


> Yes, I'm positive. Her parents are some of our best friends. We actually lived there for a few months in between moving out of our apartment and buying the house we're in now. I spend a ton of time with her father doing various things and she spends a ton of time with her mom and sister, going shopping and going out to lunch and things like that. We all have been very close from the time I met my wife. It would not bother her at all living there again. There are not really any "rules" to abide by, just common courtesy and doing your part around the house.


Seriously? My parents are the same way - wonderful, caring people who I enjoy being around and have no "rules" other than respecting each other. I would do anything to avoid living with them again. Visting is fun because everyone knows that you are leaving soon. Living together again (after getting used to setting your own schedule and doing you own thing) is a completely different game.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Seriously? My parents are the same way - wonderful, caring people who I enjoy being around and have no "rules" other than respecting each other. I would do anything to avoid living with them again. Visting is fun because everyone knows that you are leaving soon. Living together again (after getting used to setting your own schedule and doing you own thing) is a completely different game.


Yes, I'm serious. I'm actually sorry I didnt bring this up earlier in the thread. This point has been big for me on how I've been handling the situation. There is so much going on it's hard for me to remember everything I've told you guys. 

On another note, I realized something interesting while laying in my car on my lunch break. I was thinking about the conversations we've had the past few weeks and found a pattern. She mentioned on more than one occasion when talking about our past and future social life (one of her problems with me in the past) that she wanted me to make more plans. That might not sound significant to you guys, but in the context of the conversation, I told her if she wanted to do more different things, I was up for it just let me know what you want to do. She then said "you can make plans too". I'm starting to wonder if she is waiting for me to "take the reigns" and do something. I'm wondering if she want's me to show her that I want to meet new people and do different things before she commits to fixing things? I'm not saying that is the right approach, but my lack of social life the past few years has been a big issue for her. She is a very outgoing person, I was earlier in our relationship but as we settled down I no longer felt the need to do a lot of different things.

I remember reading in almostreccoverd's newbie post that I wouldnt find one person on here that changed their WS minds by logic and reason, only action. What if the action that needs to be taken with my wife is to not the standard 180 approach. Maybe a combination of the 180 and doing the things that she's been asking me to do for years? Just thinking out loud here.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Case, this isn't about what she will do or where she will live after she leaves. It's about your emotional survival. If she's bent on checking out, you can't control that. You absolutely do not want a false R based on her need of financial support. Whether you out her to her parents is up to you. But you need to get your head around the fact that you have to be ready to move on if she continues in her present direction.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

casemx said:


> I'm not sure if that approach will work. She does work full time. She doesnt make enough to support having her own place, but she has a mom and dad that will gladly give her a free place to stay for as long as she wants. She is very close to her parents and it would not bother her to live there one bit. It would be just as convenient for her to live there as it would to stay home. It's closer to her work and she would have full time babysitters at her disposal. Thats why I dont just want to throw her out. Her life will be easier living with her parents !


Oh well, might as well give up. What's on TV tonight? Have you tried exfoliating her feet lately? I hear that is a sure fire way for you to instill respect for you, from her. It pretty much matches all the other boundaries you've put on her.

As stated. You ask for advice. Advice is given. Advice is completely ignored.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

casemx said:


> Yes, I'm serious. I'm actually sorry I didnt bring this up earlier in the thread. This point has been big for me on how I've been handling the situation. There is so much going on it's hard for me to remember everything I've told you guys.
> 
> On another note, I realized something interesting while laying in my car on my lunch break. I was thinking about the conversations we've had the past few weeks and found a pattern. She mentioned on more than one occasion when talking about our past and future social life (one of her problems with me in the past) that she wanted me to make more plans. That might not sound significant to you guys, but in the context of the conversation, I told her if she wanted to do more different things, I was up for it just let me know what you want to do. She then said "you can make plans too". I'm starting to wonder if she is waiting for me to "take the reigns" and do something. I'm wondering if she want's me to show her that I want to meet new people and do different things before she commits to fixing things? I'm not saying that is the right approach, but my lack of social life the past few years has been a big issue for her. She is a very outgoing person, I was earlier in our relationship but as we settled down I no longer felt the need to do a lot of different things.
> 
> I remember reading in almostreccoverd's newbie post that I wouldnt find one person on here that changed their WS minds by logic and reason, only action. What if the action that needs to be taken with my wife is to not the standard 180 approach. Maybe a combination of the 180 and doing the things that she's been asking me to do for years? Just thinking out loud here.


Have you visited Athol Kay's website Married Man Sex Life? He talks about marriage from the perspective of the man being in charge and dictating the marriage. He uses the Captain and First Mate analogy. If your wife is naturally submissive and you feel she is looking for you to dominate her to a certain extent you should really check out Athol's blog and maybe read his book. Of course you also might be just looking for answers where none exist. If nothing else Athol's writings will make you a better man.


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## NotSoSureYet (Nov 10, 2011)

First of all, if I had 2 kids, you'd be my H and I would be your wife (almost to the T in your situation)
I am the the one that found an EA. Everything that your W has done (conversation and reaction) is what I've been doing for a year now. My H has completely changed the things that were major issues for me/us. I just have a hard time realizing that it's for REAL though - that it's gonna last.
When I went NC w/ the OM, I started to feel a little better about my H and our family life. I mentioned that I was ready to go full force on trying to fix us. Well, he wasn't ready and said we needed to take it slow. Well, ever since then, I am DONE. There are no love/intimate feelings left for my H. 




casemx said:


> On another note, I realized something interesting while laying in my car on my lunch break. I was thinking about the conversations we've had the past few weeks and found a pattern. She mentioned on more than one occasion when talking about our past and future social life (one of her problems with me in the past) that she wanted me to make more plans. That might not sound significant to you guys, but in the context of the conversation, I told her if she wanted to do more different things, I was up for it just let me know what you want to do. She then said "you can make plans too". I'm starting to wonder if she is waiting for me to "take the reigns" and do something. I'm wondering if she want's me to show her that I want to meet new people and do different things before she commits to fixing things? I'm not saying that is the right approach, but my lack of social life the past few years has been a big issue for her. She is a very outgoing person, I was earlier in our relationship but as we settled down I no longer felt the need to do a lot of different things.
> 
> 
> > I actually told my H at one point that I WANTED him to go out, meet people. I felt like it may have made me realize that I deep-down did still want him (if it made me jealous).
> ...


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

NotSoSureYet said:


> First of all, if I had 2 kids, you'd be my H and I would be your wife (almost to the T in your situation)
> I am the the one that found an EA. Everything that your W has done (conversation and reaction) is what I've been doing for a year now. My H has completely changed the things that were major issues for me/us. I just have a hard time realizing that it's for REAL though - that it's gonna last.
> When I went NC w/ the OM, I started to feel a little better about my H and our family life. I mentioned that I was ready to go full force on trying to fix us. Well, he wasn't ready and said we needed to take it slow. Well, ever since then, I am DONE. There are no love/intimate feelings left for my H.


What made you wait so long to make a decision about trying to fix things? Just the fact you werent sure his changes were sincere ? 

You obviously hurt him by dragging you feet for so long. Then one day your ready to R and and you get pissed that he wants to start small and take it slow?


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## NotSoSureYet (Nov 10, 2011)

casemx said:


> What made you wait so long to make a decision about trying to fix things? Just the fact you werent sure his changes were sincere ?
> You obviously hurt him by dragging you feet for so long. Then one day your ready to R and and you get pissed that he wants to start small and take it slow?


I shouldn't say I just QUIT, sorry. I just lost a lot of the flame that was in me to try. When I was ready, dammit, I was ready. 

I really don't know why it took me so long. I just knew that I felt really bad about what I had done and I knew that if I didn't at least try, I would have a lot of doubts and maybe regrets if/when we got divorced.
That was my biggest struggle - I was afraid that I would end up regretting my decision of leaving later on when it was too late to turn back. Crappy, I know. 

So now, I've been "trying" as best as I can for 3 months. It's not any different today than it was in the beginning


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

NotSoSureYet said:


> I shouldn't say I just QUIT, sorry. I just lost a lot of the flame that was in me to try. When I was ready, dammit, I was ready.
> 
> I really don't know why it took me so long. I just knew that I felt really bad about what I had done and I knew that if I didn't at least try, I would have a lot of doubts and maybe regrets if/when we got divorced.
> That was my biggest struggle - I was afraid that I would end up regretting my decision of leaving later on when it was too late to turn back. Crappy, I know.
> ...


So just out of curiosity is there anything he could have done different that might have made you want to try to fix the marriage sooner? Or was it that you just needed to decide to try?


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## NotSoSureYet (Nov 10, 2011)

casemx said:


> So just out of curiosity is there anything he could have done different that might have made you want to try to fix the marriage sooner? Or was it that you just needed to decide to try?


It was all up to my head and heart. I think a few posters have said that it's up to her to wanna try. And it really is. All I can tell you is to do your damndest if you want it to work. At least you tried the best way you could have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Have you visited Athol Kay's website Married Man Sex Life? He talks about marriage from the perspective of the man being in charge and dictating the marriage. He uses the Captain and First Mate analogy. If your wife is naturally submissive and you feel she is looking for you to dominate her to a certain extent you should really check out Athol's blog and maybe read his book. Of course you also might be just looking for answers where none exist. If nothing else Athol's writings will make you a better man.


Beowulf, thank you very much for pointing me in the direction of this website. I think I have become too beta in our marriage. That's not who I was when we were dating and first got married. I still do have some alpha traits, but I havent been showing them in fear of upsetting her. I've been trying to be more "caring" and "understanding" since we started having problems. It makes sense. She gets pissed off at me when I cry (I dont cry all that often, but she really gets mad at me when I do). She is always asking me to make decision, and since we've been having problems I always respond "it doesnt matter, whatever you want". She always looks to me for answers and I've been "passing the buck" back to her let her make the decision thinking It would make her feel better. Its official, I've become a wuss. Every male she looks up to and is friendly with is more alpha than beta. I'm such a dumbass.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You have the right perspective on yourself. You have the right perspective on her. The only problem is, you know what the situation is, but FEAR has gripped you. You will "beta around" till you realize that you have no self respect. And that she has no respect for you. You will remain there, until you want to respect yourself more then keep the cheating skank.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

casemx said:


> Beowulf, thank you very much for pointing me in the direction of this website. I think I have become too beta in our marriage. That's not who I was when we were dating and first got married. I still do have some alpha traits, but I havent been showing them in fear of upsetting her. I've been trying to be more "caring" and "understanding" since we started having problems. It makes sense. She gets pissed off at me when I cry (I dont cry all that often, but she really gets mad at me when I do). She is always asking me to make decision, and since we've been having problems I always respond "it doesnt matter, whatever you want". She always looks to me for answers and I've been "passing the buck" back to her let her make the decision thinking It would make her feel better. Its official, I've become a wuss. Every male she looks up to and is friendly with is more alpha than beta. I'm such a dumbass.


I personally think Athol Kay has it all right. Women say they want a caring man in touch with his feelings (Beta) but that's not what they really want, that is what the last forty years of feminism has told them they want. What a woman needs is a man that is confident , decisive, and strong. A woman wants a man that is not only willing to protect and provide for her but is ABLE to. It is natural for a man to become more Beta as he gets settled more in marriage (hell, I did the same thing) but men have to keep up the Alpha traits as well. Beta gives a woman comfort but Alpha is what creates attraction. And if your woman is not attracted to you she cannot respect you. No respect + no attraction = no love.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Also, I haven't seen any evidence the affair is over. Have you installed a keylogger on the computer? Have you checked her phone? Does the phone/text bill match up with the phone or are things being deleted on the phone? Do you have passwords to her facebook , phone, email, computer etc. Do you have a VAR?

Can't believe it took six pages on a thread before someone steered you to the man up references.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Plus don't forget the fitness tests that we husbands always fail.

Scenario (Beta response)

Wife: I saw you flirting with that girl at the party!
Husband: No I wasn't. She kept talking to me.
Wife: Bullsh!t. I watched you. You were smiling at her.
Husband: But...
Wife: No butts! After that display don't even ask for sex for a long time!

Same scenario (Alpha response)

Wife: I saw you flirting with that girl at the party.
Husband: Hey I can't help it if the women find me irresistible.
Wife: So you're saying that you weren't coming on to her?
Husband: What I'm saying is that you are damned lucky to have a husband that your friends find so handsome and desirable. Now let's go home and f*ck.

I know I failed those tests all the time. Not anymore.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Case,

Let me chime in here. I am big on the AlphaMan principle.

If you are truly following the 180 then your the Alpha tendencies will start to come out.

But you need to do the 180 for you. To Better You. To Better your Life. Do not follow the 180 thinking your wife will come back to the marriage.

Do the 180 to show her that you do not need her. That you can move on in life without her and that you will be ok.

Buddy, you really need some balls. You need to push her off the fence. The choice to live the way you are living right now is yours. Not hers.

The sooner you convince yourself of this fact the better your life will become.

Man Up! Go see the attorney today. Get the legal advice you need to proceed with a D. Not a separation. A divorce takes months. It gives you the time you need to prepare to be on your own. It also tells your wife you are done being a wuss. It tells her you no longer will tolerate being her Plan B. That you have respect for your marriage and your family. The respect she has not shown you in over a year.

This is exactly what you tell her. It will show her that you have made the 1st decision of many to come about taking control of your life.

My friend, she is a cheater. She has lied to you. Why would you ever leave such an important decision in her hands. Make the decision for you.

Alpha Man time. The way you are living together right now; what do you really have to lose? Also, tell her parents exactly whiy you are Divorcing. I am not saying to shout it to everyone from the mountain tops but be honest with them and tell them you can no longer live like this.

Good Luck

HM64


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Case,
> 
> Let me chime in here. I am big on the AlphaMan principle.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Case,
> 
> Let me chime in here. I am big on the AlphaMan principle.
> 
> ...


HM is right. Even Athol's MAP plan talks about how it is designed to make you a better man. If it results in your wife becoming more attracted to you and you stay married so be it. It is for you that you need to recover what you lost and that isn't necessarily your wife.


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## casemx (Feb 1, 2012)

Hi everybody, just thought I would give a quick update.

After realizing how much of a dumbass I've been for the last year, I've been trying hard to bring out more of my alpha traits. I'm working on being more decisive and being my happier self. I feel great. Between "manning up" and doing a modified 180 I'm starting to feel like the confident guy I used to be. I cant even begin to explain to you guys how much better I feel about myself. I also started working out again, now I just need to quit smoking.

Home life has been OK for the past few days. We sort of kept to ourselves over the weekend, but any communication we had was in a positive manner. I told her that I was taking over doing the household finances, she agreed even though she seemed a bit insulted.

We didnt talk about, or plan anything for V-day. I didnt get her anything, not even a card. Got home from work last night and she cooked one of my favorite meals for dinner and she had the kids make me a card. She even chilled a bottle of wine and poured us a few glasses, she's not a wine drinker. Her and the kids went to bed rather early and I "celebrated" my new found attitude with a few beers. It was nice that she did what she did, I appreciated it. 

My main priority is still working on myself and being the best dad I can be for my kids. It is nice though to see her trying harder all around.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Hopefully you have found a good plan. Good luck!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

casemx said:


> Hi everybody, just thought I would give a quick update.
> 
> After realizing how much of a dumbass I've been for the last year, I've been trying hard to bring out more of my alpha traits. I'm working on being more decisive and being my happier self. I feel great. Between "manning up" and doing a modified 180 I'm starting to feel like the confident guy I used to be. I cant even begin to explain to you guys how much better I feel about myself. I also started working out again, now I just need to quit smoking.
> 
> ...


This is a very good update but remember that it takes a long time to really make the new you the permanent you. Keep it up.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Case,

Stick to the 180. Work on you. Get your mind and body back in shape. Quit smoking. 

If you see your wife making an effort then make a positive comment. Short and sweet. 

Be a great Dad.

Good idea taking over the finances. 

Be strong. Be assertive.Make the decisions AlphaMan!

Take back control and be positive in everything you do. She will notice.

HM64


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## coachman (Jan 31, 2012)

Casemx-

Any updates you can share with us?


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