# What did I do wrong and what should I do now?



## bbad (Feb 11, 2017)

My story is a bit long so please bear with me. 

3 days ago we agreed on a divorce/separation but now I want to change it.

We've been married for 9 years and have a 3-year-old daughter. A little less than a year ago I found out that my wife had an affair. She was feeling lost with a lot of resentment throughout the marriage. We failed the 1st reconciliation mostly because I was controlling and gave myself the right to get angry easily. We then went through a lot of marriage counseling sessions and decided to try again (2nd reconciliation).

This 2nd time, started about 6 months ago, things went very smoothly. I'm being much better a person, no controlling whatsoever, very calm all the time, never raised my voice. We haven't got a fight since and my wife said multiple times that she impressed with my new version. We still meet the counselor once a month. 

The only issue is we don't feel love, or at least my wife's part. Even though we care about each other, we tried to spend time every night to talk and share our feeling, but she found no passion. She doesn't enjoy sex. 

I felt like she's pulling herself out recently but didn't know why. Then 3 days ago I read on her phone a FB Messenger conversation with her friend. (Now 2 notes about this: (1) I haven't read her phone since the 2nd reconciliation effort, she also has her phone locked but this time for some reasons it was unlocked while she's at the gym; (2) this girlfriend of her in Japan also had an affair, her husband got a revenge affair and things got ugly, this girl reconnect with one of the man followed her before and found a new love and kept blabbing about it with my wife.). Anyway, in this conversation, my wife complained about the passion issue and apparently has decided to give up about 3 weeks ago but didn't know how and when to talk to me. She also told our counselor in her individual session a week ago about this. I got very upset because in our nightly conversation, I mentioned a lot of times that I want her to be open rather than worrying of hurting me, and that if she decided to give up then please let me know immediately because I don't want to waste my time trying. 

So when she got home, I confronted her (still very calm) and told her that I can accept her decision but feel disrespected because I've been telling her to be open. She admitted that she was wrong for not telling me earlier, that she has made the decision because she doesn't enjoy being around me, and she's worried about my feeling so she didn't know when and how to say. She said we wouldn't go anywhere with our effort and if I have another person now, she doesn't feel jealous. I also blamed her friend as a bad influence in our effort which she disagreed. We agreed on getting a divorce.

Things got ugly the next day when I contacted her friend to tell her, with no ugly words, better just be a listener rather than an adviser because she's not a positive example for my wife to follow. Clearly, that girl told my wife and my wife got very upset that I don't think she can make her own decision among other things, and now even more determined to get a divorce. She said throughout the whole time she's still worried about my true self of being like that: try to manipulate the situation and make things ugly.

Now in our couple counseling session, we talked about obstacles, why can't we love each other. I know mine, the affair is still lingering somewhere even though I feel much better. Today I know even better that I actually still love her a lot but for some reasons I don't express myself out, maybe because I think I hold the upper hand (vs. she had an affair!) so she needs to love me first! Her concern about me making things ugly could be her obstacle beside the fact that she doesn't feel loved. 

I want to put more effort into our reconciliation because I think we were going in the right direction, that my wife's feeling of no passion is actually normal (at this stage). The most important reason is that I love my daughter a lot and I want to watch her growing up everyday, so I would try anything to make her happy and give her a wonderful childhood. My wife thinks otherwise, she said that if parents are not happy then the child will not be happy. My argument is that is for highly conflict couples. Anyway, I tried to persuade her but failed. The night I confronted her she felt very soft and said that she doesn't deserve the better version of me and that I deserve someone who really loves me. After I talked to her friend she's been very hard and determined. Last night I tried again telling her to try for our daughter and she asked me that I only care about our daughter but how about her feeling?

What did I do wrong and what should I do now?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sounds like she doesn’t have what it takes for reconciliation. She cheats and somehow expects you to magically trust her?

Nah, man.

Just cut her loose.

DNA the kid.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

bbad said:


> My story is a bit long so please bear with me.
> 
> 3 days ago we agreed on a divorce/separation but now I want to change it.
> 
> ...


You let yourself get talked out of your right to be angry over your wife's affair. You should divorce.


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## Grogmiester (Nov 23, 2015)

Something I’ve noticed when spouses who cheat and share their experiences with their friends, cheating can be like a virus that infects once committed spouses. Obviously not in every case but it is a very dangerous dynamic especially since you are trying to reconcile.

Good luck.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK lets try and answer the two questions you asked: 

1. What did you do wrong ?


Well, you just about did everything wrong! First, she cheated on you. 9 year marriage and she started feeling resentment is a bullsh!t reason to go and **** another guy! Especially when you have a 3 year old daughter. She didn't come clean - you found out. These two things should tell you that she is NOT a nice person in any shape or form. She is a liar, a cheater, is disrespectful and has a serious lack of morals. She is not the person you thought you were in love with - you were in love with an idea of who you thought she was. When you found out the truth, you simply ignored it because it was easier to deal with at the time. This was the first thing you did wrong.

The second thing you did wrong was to even think of getting into reconciliation when she clearly had suffered no consequences and you more or less rug-swept her very bad behaviour. She did not want to reconcile. She did (and does) not want you. Why in hell's name would you reconcile with someone like this. If you say it was because you love her then refer to the first thing you did wrong in the paragraph above - you were/are in love with the idea of who you thought she was (not the actual her).

The third thing you did wrong was not exposing her to the world for her bad behaviour. Also outing the POSOM to his wife or girlfriend or whatever. You also did not protect yourself financially, you did not protect your rights to your daughter, and you did not file for divorce. This told her that you would do nothing about it if she did it again and she now wants you to file to make you out to be the bad guy. And everyone would believe her - because you did not expose.

The fourth thing you did wrong was not continuing to dig as this was most likely not her first rodeo - there have probably been others and this sort of behaviour will have been going on for a lot longer than you know. That is one of the reasons others are asking you to DNA your kid. The other reason is more symbolic in letting her know what you think of her. You shoud get STD tested for the same reason.

The fifth thing you did and are doing wrong is still trying to win her back when it should be the other way round. She should be begging you not the other way round.

And the sixth thing you did wrong was justifying and kind of accepting blame FOR HER AFFAIR!!!!! You may contribute to 50% of problems in a marriage but never to an affair or cheating - that is entirely down to her. So stop taking blame for any of her bad behaviour. And grow a set of balls and stand up to her (make sure that you are legally protected).


2. What should you do now ?

Well the answer to this almost leaps out at you from the answer to the first question.

Secure all evidence of her infidelity and bad behaviour including bad influences etc.

Consult an attorney and get yourself protected in terms of finance and child access.

Expose the affair to the world and get it blown up. Also blow up the worlds of any enabling friends of hers.

Kick her out of the house if you can else out of the bedroom.

File for divorce.

Do the 180 and work on yourself - new haircut, new clothes, working out etc

Create a support network for yourself.

And do all this asap!


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## Convict (Feb 16, 2014)

Every post here will tell you the same thing. 
This woman is the one who is guilty. Not you. She should b the one begging you to forgive. And you should be the one to divorce her out of your life. 
I can understand the weakness you have if it only relates to your daughter and wanting to keep the family intact for her. 
But your wife as a woman in now way deserves your compassion. 
There is no excuse for cheating. Period.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

No wrong done, well, maybe, short of you just calling it quits.
Ending the marriage, serving her divorce papers.

She is the same person who cheated on you.
She did this betrayal for the same reasons she lives with today.

She is not in love with you. Does not have enough wherewithal to leave.
She is rather a clinger. She is holding on due to her weaknesses, not yours.

Her cheating is symptomatic of her unhappiness.
She is a cutter, cutting herself, cutting you.


She needs a man, another man, it seems.
Needs his broad back to climb on. 

I would move on.
No sense in delaying the inevitable.

Sorry for your plight.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Your wife cheats on you and you aren't allowed to be upset. She lies to you and you aren't allowed to be upset. She confides in toxic friends and wants to escalate the divorce when you call her out on it. She loves a slag friend more than you. 

Just divorce her asap. There is nothing to save here. She does not love you and if you somehow stay with her she will only cheat again and blame you for it. She is a cheating liar who is now a toxic presence in your life. Divorce her and quickly.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

bbad said:


> Last night I tried again telling her to try for our daughter and she asked me that I only care about our daughter but how about her feeling?


After sleeping with another man, she's concerned you're not doing enough to look out for her feelings? That's a good one. 

At this point, the only way to reignite passion in her would be for her to understand what she is losing. She has no respect for you since she feels like you've basically been begging her to stay in the marriage. You put yourself beneath her which only increased her contempt and disrespect for you. Women cannot feel passion for a man they disrespect. 

Disengage from her and start the divorce proceedings. Stop being friendly with her. Limit your communication with her to practical issues surrounding the divorce and your child. As others have advised, do the 180. 

If that doesn't reignite passion, then this was a lost cause anyway.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Pick me dance does not work.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

She cheated on you, and you failed to execute the reconciliation correctly.

The fact your wife is ever allowed to have a lock on her phone is proof of that.

She cheated and you trust her again? That is wrong. You failed to enforce the fact she cannot be trusted and if she wants to reconcile she must prove she is trustworthy by giving you complete access to all accounts and devices. In my case that is forever. Some people seem to think some number of years is adequate. She cannot be allowed those privacies after proving she cannot be trusted.

She cheated. You rug swept her affair. That's what you did wrong. She paid no consequences, and she knows it didn't matter to you.

You say you allowed yourself to get angry? From the sounds of it you have no idea what angry is. I was angry. I was enraged. Sometimes I am amazed we survived our reconciliation. My wife wanted to reconcile. She suffered because she wanted to reconcile.

If your wife did not want to reconcile, so you swallowed your anger and played the pick me game, there's what you did wrong. If your wife said she had no interest in reconciling if you were going to act that way, after she was the one who tore a hole in your soul and rent your heart a mortal blow, and you chose to act like a good little boy, there is your problem.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you should have been angry. You should have made her prove she wanted reconciliation with every fiber of her being, and she should have given her heart and soul to be reconciled. Otherwise you should have tossed her away like so much garbage. Which she is proving to be.

Reconciliation is on the head of the person who cheated. It was not your job to woo her back. You did it all wrong.

Be well, somehow.


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## bbad (Feb 11, 2017)

I forget that TAM is all about serving the paper and 180 etc when it comes to affair.

I was hard, I implemented 180 after the affair too. I exposed to her family, to the OM's wife. I didn't go in too details of that because my post was too long. But in the 1st reconciliation try, I did not forgive correctly. It's similar to the thread "forever wearing the scarlet letter", I was angry and brought up her affair for nonsense, like 1 day she wanted to buy food before going home and I told her to go home first because it was raining and then she said that I should let her take her own decision and I got upset telling her your own decision leads us to this etc. Imagine a few more times like that. I have to admit that she was pretty patient.

One day she lost patience and moved out. We split our daughter's time and started the divorce process. That was hard. I went to individual counseling and that counselor focuses on me being a controller all the time and getting angry easily. I thought that was right, I don't want myself to be like that. Then that counselor met both of us. We tried to reconcile again. That counselor agreed that she should have her privacy, that building trust is not about controlling the other's phone. What can you say?

But it's all true that the 2nd time, wish for reconciliation was not from her. It's true that she didn't get many consequences. So I executed reconciliation incorrectly. It's never because she wanted me back. She has some (old) friends at work that she trusts to confide and now thinking about that, they were all divorced! 

This time she said that she has to experience life without me. She said that maybe she'll have to learn the lesson the hard way. And it's fate if we ever get back together.

I know the pick me dance would not work. I just love my daughter too much. But I'll stop. I promise myself after last night conversation that I won't start any conversation with her anymore.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You can say that counselor is wrong.

An absolute about an affair is she should have no privacy afterwards. Why should you trust her? She proved she could not be trusted.

The way to build trust is to do right, and verify, over and over for years. But it requires the verification step. Verification is done via having all accounts and devices open and inspected regularly. Reporting where you are regularly. Being where you say you will be at all times. There must be total accountability. 

Rebuilding trust does not mean you just have to start trusting her again. 

It takes years, sometimes many years, of proving over and over and over that every little thing a person says is the absolute truth. 

That is why most reconciliations don't work. The Wandering Spouse usually has no interest in being that transparent with the Betrayed Spouse. They want their freedom so they can go have another affair without being discovered.

Total transparency between spouses goes a long way to keeping a marriage safe. If you two had that before, perhaps she would not have had an affair.

Although, I like to think my wife and I had total transparency in theory, at least from my side for sure, and my wife still allowed a friend to seduce her, so what do I know.


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## bbad (Feb 11, 2017)

I also want to note that, we didn't have the right ingredient for reconciliation but she did feel regret, in our nightly conversation she told me multiple times that she wished she didn't talk about the married issue with another man (that leaded to the affair). By the way her affair lasted only 1 month and they didn't have intercourse yet (the best I know).

She did try alot in sex, I can feel that, at least to satisfy my need. But at the same time, she's a cold blood woman, you can't really know what's inside her head. Like in recent days, after we decided for divorce, she still acts very soft and talks to me like nothing happened, like we are normal friends.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sounds like you married wrong.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You already know she lies to you.

Stop considering anything she has ever said to have any meaning. It was all lies calculated to get her way.

By the way, my advice is about reconciliation. The 180 is about divorce.

From what I have heard marriage counseling is about attempting to keep marriages from getting into trouble before an affair.

What we need is counselors who specialize in reconciliation. Rebuilding trust is very hard. Very few marriages survive an affair, from all the information I have seen. I don't think it is because we don't know how to reconcile, but instead it is because by the time an affair happens the marriage is in such bad shape it is pretty much impossible to save it.

After an affair rebuilding trust is extremely hard, though. The biggest problem is the Wandering Spouse doesn't want to do the work needed to prove they are trustworthy. They just want the Betrayed Spouse to trust them again without proof.

Your wife had her affair less than a year ago. My wife was on her knees crying and begging me to forgive her and offering to do anything I asked of her to get me to forgive her a year after she had a one day stand. She let a friend seduce her during the day, and I never discovered it was more than just the one day. My wife told me as soon as I walked in the door.

I can tell you if my wife had failed to tell me immediately the outcome would likely have been very different than it was. I am not a forgiving person by nature. Two years later I finally went out and had sex with a strange woman, and then began to forgive my wife.

I don't see how you can forgive and forget so easily. I cannot believe you should be expected to trust her. Not by a counselor, not by you, and least of all by your wife. Total transparency should be the least of what she gives you.

But I am a cruel person, and as I said very unforgiving. Still. I don't believe other people actually come to a point of trusting any easier, they just think they should so they swallow their misgivings and let those misgivings eat out their souls.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Here is a thought experiment for you, @bbad.

Imagine this scene:-

Your wife has cooked a nice meal, has spread the table, there's a tablecloth, wine, wine glasses, the works.

You climb onto your chair, drop your trousers and defecate in the middle of the table.

You wipe yourself off with your wife's napkin, pull your trousers back up and sit down.

Doubtless your wife would express outrage and anger at what you just did.

You would then tell her that the excrement is, relative to the size of the dinner table, rather small.

So you would then ask her why she can't just ignore the turd and ask her why she is allowing herself to be so angry with you?

Ask her why she can't just ignore the smell? 

And if she is disgusted with what you did with her napkin, remind her there is another side that is perfectly clean.

*Your wife has already done this to you. She defecated all over you, your marriage and her own daughter. *

But it is your fault for pointing out that her **** stinks.


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## bbad (Feb 11, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Very few marriages survive an affair, from all the information I have seen. I don't think it is because we don't know how to reconcile, but instead it is because by the time an affair happens the marriage is in such bad shape it is pretty much impossible to save it.


This ^

When I wrote my first post, I just wanted to talk about the affair as a background but I didn't want to focus on it. It was over (and I have reasons to be sure) and I want to discuss our relationship after that. 

Apparently, our marriage was in a bad shape before the affair, just that I didn't know. All the stress with the newborn, I was controlling and easily got irritated, I thought that it was fine but my wife was building resentment. 

I think the main issue is her being fancy about the in-love feeling. Our therapist always tells us to respect feelings so she has more reasons to believe that her feeling is legitimate and what we were experiencing was like the end of a marriage. I read several books and I believe love is a choice. So different opinions. 

Anyway, I guess I shouldn't contact her friend; I hate that friend but I was trying to manipulate the situation. I should have only focused on what I can really control, and an acquaintance in our life is not one of them. I played the pick-me-dance not for me but for my daughter instead, even though deep down I know it doesn't work, especially only a few days after. 

I just need to let the water flows the way it is. Everything happens for a reason! Hope I can do it.

Oh and I am looking for a new (male) therapist, just for myself.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You can't control the friend, that is for sure. Trying is futile, and bound to cause aggravation, yes.

I think you got a lot of bad information from the counselor.

As for the counselor being female versus male, not sure that matters. Marriage counselors just seem to be confused about real psychotherapy.

After my wife's debacle I tried to make my wife attend counseling, she refused for years. She finally started with a family counselor in 1984. She has so many problems, and flatly refused to talk, she was referred in a couple weeks to a psychologist. 

I picked a very highly qualified female, who was known for being sympathetic with Christian patients. My wife has a strong religious background. What a mess that was. My wife is very submissive, and that psychologist actually had me in to tell me I had to accept my wife's submission as a good thing. I argued a woman in that day and age needed to be more independent. My argument was tossed aside. 

So I took Mary to another psychologist. He was the same. But said Mary had some bad trauma in her childhood, and referred Mary to her first psychiatrist. She was soon referred to another psychiatrist, a specialist in hypnotherapy, and they tried to get to her deeper traumas. They found some bad stuff, to be sure, and after 7 years of therapy they found even worse stuff. Mary got a lot better, but she is still crazy as a loon.

You have to find the right therapist for the right issue.

An affair is a pretty big trauma. I think marriage counselors aren't equipped to handle it at all.

There are a lot of shysters who hang up their plaque claiming to be counselors. Make sure it is somebody who is well qualified to handle the problems you have. Investigate their training.

Be well.


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## bbad (Feb 11, 2017)

Where I live it's crowded and most therapists could be millionaires. They are all very busy and if I call 5 and one gets back I consider myself lucky!

That said, I had the feeling that the last therapist doesn't understand the perspective of a betrayed spouse after just a few sessions, but I kept trying because I was unhappy with the previous therapist too, I thought maybe it's not them it's me! And it's true that I have issue with my temper and controlling. My therapist seems to be great for personal development and improvement, as I see myself improved, so I stick with her. A few days ago, according to my wife, she went to see the therapist individually and told her that she wants to leave me because she feels no passion. And the therapist agreed.

Now there's something to note. My wife doesn't have a happy childhood. Her dad was a drinker. When she's small, she saw her dad abused her mom multiple times. She was small so she didn't know what to do. She knew that she enjoyed her family together and wanted that abuse to be ended. When she grows up, she kept thinking that her mom should have left her dad. Even though now her parents are in better shape, but issues still happen here and there. Maybe that experience shapes her thought, that our daughter would want her mom (my wife) to leave if she's not happy.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

It is so hard to say what shapes thoughts.

My wife suffered Childhood Sexual Abuse starting at the age of of 9 years old. She was beaten daily for months during Conversion Therapy while being told how evil she was, starting when she was 11 years old. 

My wife is a pathological liar, and her psychiatrists tell me they haven’t heard of anyone being cured of it.

After learning about my wife’s history I think it’s no wonder she’s messed up. Then I think, you know what, she’s a lot happier than most people, and that’s pretty amazing. She’s smiling and laughing a lot of the time. She is really fun to be with.

Who knows how we get to be what we are. It will just make you lose sleep to bother thinking about it.

Be well


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Here is a thought experiment for you, @bbad.
> 
> Imagine this scene:-
> 
> ...


This is pure poetry!


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