# Wife having an emotional affair or worse



## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

My story starts about 2 months ago. Me and my wife have been married for 11 years and have been together for about 18 years. My wife has always had issues with depression, anxiety, and OCD. She has been taking some form of med for these now since I can remember. We have a 10 year old daughter and a 7 year old son. We both make decent money, have new vehicles, recently built our dream house and live close to work and in a great neighborhood. I would have to believe we have a pretty good life that not everyone gets to experience. Back to my story, she had a work trip to Georgia about a month and a half ago. i had been feeling like our relationship was certainly not bad but we really lacked closeness like we have had for many years. I attributed it to having 2 kids, all kinds of activities, and professional careers. She didn't seem to enjoy sex all the time and she would sometimes make me feel like it was a chore. She had been sleeping on the couch almost every night. I had questioned her about this for about 2 years and she always had some type of excuse. It was too hot in our room, she couldn't sleep, etc. I just blew it off as I didn't know what else I could do. I did try really hard to get her to stay in our room and she would on occasion. She really seemed withdrawn for a long time now. She would sit on the couch and not do much of anything but sit on her phone and text people and surf social media. That would drive me crazy because she really wouldn't do things with the kids or even carry on a conversation with me. I did all the shopping and took care of everything for the family at that point. It was like she was in her own little world that didn't involve the rest of her family. She would be gone for a week at a conference. However, the conference is more like a big party. Every night all the vendors provide free apps and all the alcohol you could want. I certainly didn't feel thrilled that my wife was going to this conference where it becomes what I believe is a big drunk fest. My uneasiness stemmed from the fact that she really liked to party it up and we didn't seem all that close like I would have liked. I still felt like we had a great life together though. She works in a predominately male oriented career so there are thousands of guys at the conference and much fewer women. We had recently gone on a vacation with our kids and even had some great sex. I should also mention that my wife loves attention. She had been starting to fix her hair everyday, and put on makeup. She also lost about 30 pounds. I know that she was getting a lot of attention from guys at work and she just eats that up. When I would give her attention she would blow it off. The days before her leaving on her trip, we had nice close family time. Spent extra time with the kids and me. Seemed very happy and helped clean up the house and prepare to leave and not make it so difficult for me when she is gone. While she was gone, I had decided that I really didn't want to continue to have a relationship like this with the lack of closeness. I decided I wanted to try to fix it and felt even if me pushing to fix it would split us up, it was still the right thing to do because I didn't want to grow old living like this anymore. Also to my dismay, I see her posting on social media pics of herself in a brand new dress that I had never seen looking as seductive as possible and she was going out like this to the drunkfest activities. Her friends joke saying it looks like the cover for a tinder profile. I was not pleased at all but didn't let her know. She never dressed up for me anytime recently.

So she returned in a week and I didn't get much of a warm greeting at all. I felt like I was being avoided. I had planned to sit her down and talk with her how I felt. Her response really shocked me. She said she wants me to give her my understanding as a friend while she tries to work out things in her head. She seemed to indicate she was having some sort of midlife crisis. I had fully wanted to start working on getting our relationship to a better place. I was a little shocked because we had a great family vacation just a short time before this. She even initiated sex and we had a great time. So I suggest counseling and she seems to agree. I want to re-kindle our relationship. So after the fall out of that and me reeling through my mind what just happened I felt lost. I wanted to have a date night where we go to the place we used to hang back when we were dating. She dressed up like she did when she was on her trip. We went out to a few places and had drinks. She would leave the table briefly every now and then and she would check her phone and send people messages. We went to another place and had some drinks. I left to go to the bathroom and when I came back she was texting some guys name that I knew I didn't know. I know most all of her friends as we work in the same line of business. I find out this is someone she met on her trip. Now she is texting him while out with me trying to re-kindle our relationship. What a train wreck that night was. On our way home she indicated that she wasn't attracted to me and she believed that if we had an open marriage it would fix our problems. I completely disagree as I can't see how 2 people that are not being close will become closer by opening up their marriage. I felt like my marriage was completely over at this point. We talked the next day and I asked her about this guy she is texting. She said it was just a friend. Obviously that is not the case. I asked if he is just a friend if she would feel embarrassed if I would see what she is sending him. Her response was so what if we send flirty texts back and forth. This is all not OK with me at all. We agree to sign up for some counseling. She said she never had sex with this guy but I have no way to know either way. I know she met him at a place where she had a fancy hotel thousands of miles away. This person told her that he was having the same marriage problems she had and that he fixed them by having an open marriage. I don't know if that is just a pickup line but it would certainly seem to me like a pretty slick way to pick up vulnerable women. So now here we sit in this state of uncertainty. I started to look at phone records and it appears that she would text him thousands of times in a short number of days while she was at this conference and after. She later admitted to hanging out with him at least 3 nights. I didn't mention I knew about the texts. She then told me that when she left for this conference she was so deeply depressed that she felt like killing herself and she poured her heart out to this random guy. She obviously has some attraction for this person but I still don't know how they met. This guy is married and lives far away. However I have seen that she does text him and I believe she sends him messenger messages during the day. I don't know if this guys wife has any idea of all of this activity and I don't believe I will ever know if they slept together. I do know that looking at her text records, she would text him into the wee hours of the morning and start again right way very early sending thousands of texts. I remained silent about all of this. She seemed to be dealing with a midlife crisis of sorts and now this guy she is attracted to is now complicating things more for us and our family. I quietly watch and my wife would go home from work "sick" and sit and text this guy. I would come home and she would be as nice as can be to me. I didn't let her know that I know. We went on a family vacation for a couple days. I would say at this point the relationship seems more like we are just being nice to each other then like anything that felt more normal like it did before our trip. Then as a little more time passed and we were doing what I would say is trying to work on our relationship, she comes home and wants me to watch the kids while she lays down because she has a headache. All this time I am now depressed and experiencing anxiety with all these things going on. I couldn't sleep and I decided to check her text records and I see she would sneak away while we were on our trip and send this guy messages when she was in the bathroom and a couple other times. I also saw that when she needed to lay down, she texted him from the other room for an hour. I had always known that they were messaging each other and I also know logically me wanting her to stop doesn't mean she will want to stop. But now I was mad. I called her out on it. She denied it and said I was crazy. I told her I can show her. She insisted she was messaging a girl friend. Shortly after that she admitted to it and said she wouldn't lie about it anymore. THis is a very sore spot for me. I don't know a tactful way to make whatever texting relationship she has go away. All of these things have happened in the last couple weeks.

So we went to counseling and I brought up how she has been isolated and not participating at all with the family and how she said she was so depressed and met some guy and has been carrying on an emotional affair at best. My wife goes to counseling to separately. She is putting forth a lot of effort not to not sit on her phone all day and night and will carry on a conversation with me. SHe helps with house things again and started to buy groceries. She added another anti-depressant to her med regimen. We seems to be connecting to some degree. We have had sex on occasion. I am still hurt by her saying she isn't attracted to me anymore. We had a date night and talked about our relationship and it sounds like after much deliberation she wants to stay in the marriage with me. I am still at a loss how we ever got to this point because I have always treated her well and feel like this person she met has more then contributed to our problems. So I have been tollerant of her still texting this person. After I called her out, she no longer sends texts from her phone to him but I believe she uses a messenger program. When I asked her if she still sends them she says yes but not everyday. I feel like whatever this relationship is that she has with this random guy, so needs to go away for us to work on our marriage. I don't know any tactful way to make this happen. I am looking for advice. I can't express how deeply this hurts to think your spouse has some brand new super close relationship with some random guys she seems to be attracted to. This is a problem that bothers me all the time. I also know for certain she is on social media all day at work and can easily message this guy all the time. I also notice her checking her facebook messenger often and I can only believe it is to message this person.

Fast forward to the present. She had informed me she was going to have a girls trip this weekend. Her and her girlfriend would go to a big city from Thursday through Monday. I don't feel like I have any say in anything at all at this point because anytime I say anything I get blasted so I just didn't say much at all. It is very difficult to trust my wife now because she is prone to lie or exaggerate all the time. She had recently denied and lied about keeping in touch with this guy. I don't know if she is meeting him there now or what. I do know that she has 2 phones with her. Seeing her without a phone in her hand and texting is something you almost never see. It appears to me that she is leaving her normal phone in her purse because she appears to be off social media for many hours at a time and i can only believe she is binging on sending this person texts from her work phone while she is out of town like she did last time. I am completely helpless right now and it deeply bothers me that this relationship she has continues. I know that this person is into atheism and tattoos and one of the first thing my wife did is get a tattoo when she returned from her trip. I do computer forensics and I was able to get info on this person as to where he works, lives, his wifes name, and I even found several ways to contact this guys wife. I see him and his wife post in an anteism forum. I can't recall her ever really mentioning wanting a tattoo before. It seems like she has aligned herself with this person. This new trip also brings back very recent memories of the last trip she went on. I had no idea in the world that she was so deeply depressed. I don't really know where to go from here. I think she genuinely wants to work on our marriage. I don't know if it's more because she knows she has some very good things or she just really doesn't want to go through a divorce financially and deal with child custody. I am willing to do whatever it would take to work on our marriage because I think the effort is well spent compared to going through a divorce. It would kill me not to be able to spend everyday with my kids and put them to bed each night. They are the most important thing to me in the whole world. in the past I thought we had a happy marriage and I don't see why we can't have that again. So now I feel hurt that my wife is continuing this relationship but I don't want to try to force her to stop. I don't know if she cares how much it bothers me and I feel that it has to go away eventually to get to a point where we feel like things can be closer to normal. Sorry to rant but I have been going through hell for the past 3 months. Any advice is much appreciated, especially to get rid of this emotional affair she is having. I am trying to get my life back to normal but I have become depressed over all of this and feel like I need to be on guard for whatever antics my wife tries next.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Forgive me but I bet dollar to donuts she is not depressed when she is with his guy....she is cheating...and your chasing a ref herring while she is chasing tail....I am honestly shocked that first you let her go, second that you believe eve what she says. You want her head in the game, collect every once of data you can, then contact the OM wife and pull the D. Card on her. You are seriously being played.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Sorry, but I think you should assume the worst. Yes, she's had sex with him, multiple times. Yes, she's probably going to meet him on the "girls' weekend". 

Right now, you're desperate to keep her. She can see that, and she knows she can take advantage of you as long as she wants. She hasn't yet felt the sting of possibly losing you and losing half her time with the kids.

If I were you, I'd go "scorched earth" on her. It's time to be MAD instead of passive. Inform the other guy's wife (his story about an "open marriage" might be BS). Inform her parents and siblings that you believe she's in a full-blown physical affair. Let her see you collecting DNA samples from your kids to be submitted to a company that performs paternity testing. Let her know that you're getting a full-panel STD test for yourself, and that you expect her to do the same. 

Talk to an attorney to know your rights, file for divorce, and have her served at work. Note that there is nothing final about filing. Once you file, you can stop the process at any time. But she has a lot of work to do. Do not back off until she really seems contrite. Do not fall for manipulation or attempts at seduction.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

thegman said:


> My story starts about 2 months ago. Me and my wife have been married for 11 years and have been together for about 18 years. My wife has always had issues with depression, anxiety, and OCD. She has been taking some form of med for these now since I can remember. We have a 10 year old daughter and a 7 year old son. We both make decent money, have new vehicles, recently built our dream house and live close to work and in a great neighborhood. I would have to believe we have a pretty good life that not everyone gets to experience. Back to my story, she had a work trip to Georgia about a month and a half ago. i had been feeling like our relationship was certainly not bad but we really lacked closeness like we have had for many years. I attributed it to having 2 kids, all kinds of activities, and professional careers. She didn't seem to enjoy sex all the time and she would sometimes make me feel like it was a chore. She had been sleeping on the couch almost every night. I had questioned her about this for about 2 years and she always had some type of excuse. It was too hot in our room, she couldn't sleep, etc. I just blew it off as I didn't know what else I could do. I did try really hard to get her to stay in our room and she would on occasion. She really seemed withdrawn for a long time now. She would sit on the couch and not do much of anything but sit on her phone and text people and surf social media. That would drive me crazy because she really wouldn't do things with the kids or even carry on a conversation with me. I did all the shopping and took care of everything for the family at that point. It was like she was in her own little world that didn't involve the rest of her family. She would be gone for a week at a conference. However, the conference is more like a big party. Every night all the vendors provide free apps and all the alcohol you could want. I certainly didn't feel thrilled that my wife was going to this conference where it becomes what I believe is a big drunk fest. My uneasiness stemmed from the fact that she really liked to party it up and we didn't seem all that close like I would have liked. I still felt like we had a great life together though. She works in a predominately male oriented career so there are thousands of guys at the conference and much fewer women. We had recently gone on a vacation with our kids and even had some great sex. I should also mention that my wife loves attention. She had been starting to fix her hair everyday, and put on makeup. She also lost about 30 pounds. I know that she was getting a lot of attention from guys at work and she just eats that up. When I would give her attention she would blow it off. The days before her leaving on her trip, we had nice close family time. Spent extra time with the kids and me. Seemed very happy and helped clean up the house and prepare to leave and not make it so difficult for me when she is gone. While she was gone, I had decided that I really didn't want to continue to have a relationship like this with the lack of closeness. I decided I wanted to try to fix it and felt even if me pushing to fix it would split us up, it was still the right thing to do because I didn't want to grow old living like this anymore. Also to my dismay, I see her posting on social media pics of herself in a brand new dress that I had never seen looking as seductive as possible and she was going out like this to the drunkfest activities. Her friends joke saying it looks like the cover for a tinder profile. I was not pleased at all but didn't let her know. She never dressed up for me anytime recently.
> 
> So she returned in a week and I didn't get much of a warm greeting at all. I felt like I was being avoided. I had planned to sit her down and talk with her how I felt. Her response really shocked me. She said she wants me to give her my understanding as a friend while she tries to work out things in her head. She seemed to indicate she was having some sort of midlife crisis. I had fully wanted to start working on getting our relationship to a better place. I was a little shocked because we had a great family vacation just a short time before this. She even initiated sex and we had a great time. So I suggest counseling and she seems to agree. I want to re-kindle our relationship. So after the fall out of that and me reeling through my mind what just happened I felt lost. I wanted to have a date night where we go to the place we used to hang back when we were dating. She dressed up like she did when she was on her trip. We went out to a few places and had drinks. She would leave the table briefly every now and then and she would check her phone and send people messages. We went to another place and had some drinks. I left to go to the bathroom and when I came back she was texting some guys name that I knew I didn't know. I know most all of her friends as we work in the same line of business. I find out this is someone she met on her trip. Now she is texting him while out with me trying to re-kindle our relationship. What a train wreck that night was. On our way home she indicated that she wasn't attracted to me and she believed that if we had an open marriage it would fix our problems. I completely disagree as I can't see how 2 people that are not being close will become closer by opening up their marriage. I felt like my marriage was completely over at this point. We talked the next day and I asked her about this guy she is texting. She said it was just a friend. Obviously that is not the case. I asked if he is just a friend if she would feel embarrassed if I would see what she is sending him. Her response was so what if we send flirty texts back and forth. This is all not OK with me at all. We agree to sign up for some counseling. She said she never had sex with this guy but I have no way to know either way. I know she met him at a place where she had a fancy hotel thousands of miles away. This person told her that he was having the same marriage problems she had and that he fixed them by having an open marriage. I don't know if that is just a pickup line but it would certainly seem to me like a pretty slick way to pick up vulnerable women. So now here we sit in this state of uncertainty. I started to look at phone records and it appears that she would text him thousands of times in a short number of days while she was at this conference and after. She later admitted to hanging out with him at least 3 nights. I didn't mention I knew about the texts. She then told me that when she left for this conference she was so deeply depressed that she felt like killing herself and she poured her heart out to this random guy. She obviously has some attraction for this person but I still don't know how they met. This guy is married and lives far away. However I have seen that she does text him and I believe she sends him messenger messages during the day. I don't know if this guys wife has any idea of all of this activity and I don't believe I will ever know if they slept together. I do know that looking at her text records, she would text him into the wee hours of the morning and start again right way very early sending thousands of texts. I remained silent about all of this. She seemed to be dealing with a midlife crisis of sorts and now this guy she is attracted to is now complicating things more for us and our family. I quietly watch and my wife would go home from work "sick" and sit and text this guy. I would come home and she would be as nice as can be to me. I didn't let her know that I know. We went on a family vacation for a couple days. I would say at this point the relationship seems more like we are just being nice to each other then like anything that felt more normal like it did before our trip. Then as a little more time passed and we were doing what I would say is trying to work on our relationship, she comes home and wants me to watch the kids while she lays down because she has a headache. All this time I am now depressed and experiencing anxiety with all these things going on. I couldn't sleep and I decided to check her text records and I see she would sneak away while we were on our trip and send this guy messages when she was in the bathroom and a couple other times. I also saw that when she needed to lay down, she texted him from the other room for an hour. I had always known that they were messaging each other and I also know logically me wanting her to stop doesn't mean she will want to stop. But now I was mad. I called her out on it. She denied it and said I was crazy. I told her I can show her. She insisted she was messaging a girl friend. Shortly after that she admitted to it and said she wouldn't lie about it anymore. THis is a very sore spot for me. I don't know a tactful way to make whatever texting relationship she has go away. All of these things have happened in the last couple weeks.
> 
> ...



You have a tough decision because you have to take on your wife's mental health and how plausible it would likely be to get better. How will her issues affect your own mental health down the line. If her depression is not manageable, then she is likely to cheat or do something else risky to get that stimulus to treat her depression.

Unless you both open the marriage while the kids are still young so you both get something from someone else as your wife is incapable of meeting any of your relationship needs, then if there is nothing she can do about her depression other than just manage, for your own sake, it is better to move on as you will burn out somewhere down the line and it will be harder for you to move on as the baggage over the years accumulate.


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## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

When I called her out on texting this guy I was livid. I told her I was going to contact the OM wife. She said it wasn't him doing this to me it was her and I should leave him and his family out of it. I have read that if you contact the other spouse things can go really bad. I don't know what the outcome would be. My wife said if I do that our marriage is over. This was only about 2.5 weeks ago that happened. Since then, she seems to have reconciled to wanting to stay. I just don't know what her end game is. I truly wish I could get into her facebook account and see what these messages are to this guy to see how serious our problem is. I know this guy lives thousands of miles away. The distance is the only good thing I have going for me. I truly wish I could contact this person's wife and have her not tell him and communicate with me. I would love to hear if she really has an open marriage. I know from the marriage records I see for this guy, he has only been married for 4 years. I find it hard to believe he is having attraction problems and needed to fix them with an open marriage in such a new relationship.


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## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

I only believe an open marriage would come from a solid marriage where both feel confident and want to experience other people. Otherwise I don't feel that in anyway would work. Either way that will never work for me. That is not what I want and I could not do that. It would destroy me mentally to think some other guys are having sex with my wife. Just could never have an open marriage.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

thegman said:


> When I called her out on texting this guy I was livid. I told her I was going to contact the OM wife. She said it wasn't him doing this to me it was her and I should leave him and his family out of it. I have read that if you contact the other spouse things can go really bad. I don't know what the outcome would be. My wife said if I do that our marriage is over. This was only about 2.5 weeks ago that happened. Since then, she seems to have reconciled to wanting to stay. I just don't know what her end game is. I truly wish I could get into her facebook account and see what these messages are to this guy to see how serious our problem is. I know this guy lives thousands of miles away. The distance is the only good thing I have going for me. I truly wish I could contact this person's wife and have her not tell him and communicate with me. I would love to hear if she really has an open marriage. I know from the marriage records I see for this guy, he has only been married for 4 years. I find it hard to believe he is having attraction problems and needed to fix them with an open marriage in such a new relationship.



If she wants the marriage, she needs to be transparent. Plus, her protecting him is because she is in love with him and could only see him in a positive light as he stimulates that excitement and new desire that comes from novelty into her. She is protecting that source. Exposing it may mean the end of it and she may have went underground to keep her new addiction.

If you want to save the marriage, exposing to the other spouse will put pressure on both fronts but still, to my prior post, could you stay in a marriage where she just manages her depression.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

thegman said:


> *When I called her out on texting this guy I was livid. I told her I was going to contact the OM wife. She said it wasn't him doing this to me it was her and I should leave him and his family out of it. I have read that if you contact the other spouse things can go really bad. I don't know what the outcome would be. My wife said if I do that our marriage is over.* This was only about 2.5 weeks ago that happened. Since then, she seems to have reconciled to wanting to stay. I just don't know what her end game is. I truly wish I could get into her facebook account and see what these messages are to this guy to see how serious our problem is. I know this guy lives thousands of miles away. The distance is the only good thing I have going for me. I truly wish I could contact this person's wife and have her not tell him and communicate with me. I would love to hear if she really has an open marriage. I know from the marriage records I see for this guy, he has only been married for 4 years. I find it hard to believe he is having attraction problems and needed to fix them with an open marriage in such a new relationship.


That was her displaying loyalty to him over you, which essentially means that you have your answer w/ respect to where her heart truly lies.

It's time for you to call your WW's bluff -- take whatever evidence you have and reach out to OMW today. Expose everything to her.


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## MSalmoides (Sep 29, 2016)

...


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

thegman said:


> She said it wasn't him doing this to me it was her and I should leave him and his family out of it.


No, he brought his family into it when he decided to have sex with another man's wife. His wife deserves to know the truth about her spouse, just as you do. The fact that she's protecting him suggests that his wife has no idea she's in an "open marriage".



thegman said:


> My wife said if I do that our marriage is over.


No, tell her the marriage was actually over already when she decided to break her marriage vows and sleep with another man. You've only been staying around to see if she was ever worthy of re-marrying. So far, she's shown that she's not. 



thegman said:


> Since then, she seems to have reconciled to wanting to stay.


No, since then she's decided to keep her comfy family life and continue to text and have sex with the other man. She's just learned that she needs to be more discreet about it.

Part of the problem is that she has no respect for you anymore, because you've let yourself be walked over. That lack of respect has translated into a lack of attraction to you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

thegman said:


> When I called her out on texting this guy I was livid. I told her I was going to contact the OM wife. She said it wasn't him doing this to me it was her and I should leave him and his family out of it. I have read that if you contact the other spouse things can go really bad. I don't know what the outcome would be. My wife said if I do that our marriage is over. This was only about 2.5 weeks ago that happened. Since then, she seems to have reconciled to wanting to stay. I just don't know what her end game is. I truly wish I could get into her facebook account and see what these messages are to this guy to see how serious our problem is. I know this guy lives thousands of miles away. The distance is the only good thing I have going for me. I truly wish I could contact this person's wife and have her not tell him and communicate with me. I would love to hear if she really has an open marriage. I know from the marriage records I see for this guy, he has only been married for 4 years. I find it hard to believe he is having attraction problems and needed to fix them with an open marriage in such a new relationship.



Fear and anxiety are your enemy. Go see your doctor IMMEDIATELY and get on an anti-anxiety such as zoloft. Anxiety will cause you to make fatal mistakes. Do this right now. Tell you doctor the reason why you are anxious. Your wife is cheating.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> That was her displaying loyalty to him over you, which essentially means that you have your answer w/ respect to where her heart truly lies.
> 
> It's time for you to call your WW's bluff -- take whatever evidence you have and reach out to OMW today. Expose everything to her.


This is one of those "you have to be able to let it go to save it" moments.

It's a hard road that needs to be done...


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

thegman said:


> My story starts about 2 months ago. Me and my wife have been married for 11 years and have been together for about 18 years. My wife has always had issues with depression, anxiety, and OCD. She has been taking some form of med for these now since I can remember. We have a 10 year old daughter and a 7 year old son. We both make decent money, have new vehicles, recently built our dream house and live close to work and in a great neighborhood. I would have to believe we have a pretty good life that not everyone gets to experience. Back to my story, she had a work trip to Georgia about a month and a half ago. i had been feeling like our relationship was certainly not bad but we really lacked closeness like we have had for many years. I attributed it to having 2 kids, all kinds of activities, and professional careers. She didn't seem to enjoy sex all the time and she would sometimes make me feel like it was a chore. She had been sleeping on the couch almost every night. I had questioned her about this for about 2 years and she always had some type of excuse. It was too hot in our room, she couldn't sleep, etc. I just blew it off as I didn't know what else I could do. I did try really hard to get her to stay in our room and she would on occasion. She really seemed withdrawn for a long time now. She would sit on the couch and not do much of anything but sit on her phone and text people and surf social media. That would drive me crazy because she really wouldn't do things with the kids or even carry on a conversation with me. I did all the shopping and took care of everything for the family at that point. It was like she was in her own little world that didn't involve the rest of her family. She would be gone for a week at a conference. However, the conference is more like a big party. Every night all the vendors provide free apps and all the alcohol you could want. I certainly didn't feel thrilled that my wife was going to this conference where it becomes what I believe is a big drunk fest. My uneasiness stemmed from the fact that she really liked to party it up and we didn't seem all that close like I would have liked. I still felt like we had a great life together though. She works in a predominately male oriented career so there are thousands of guys at the conference and much fewer women. We had recently gone on a vacation with our kids and even had some great sex. I should also mention that my wife loves attention. She had been starting to fix her hair everyday, and put on makeup. She also lost about 30 pounds. I know that she was getting a lot of attention from guys at work and she just eats that up. When I would give her attention she would blow it off. The days before her leaving on her trip, we had nice close family time. Spent extra time with the kids and me. Seemed very happy and helped clean up the house and prepare to leave and not make it so difficult for me when she is gone. While she was gone, I had decided that I really didn't want to continue to have a relationship like this with the lack of closeness. I decided I wanted to try to fix it and felt even if me pushing to fix it would split us up, it was still the right thing to do because I didn't want to grow old living like this anymore. Also to my dismay, I see her posting on social media pics of herself in a brand new dress that I had never seen looking as seductive as possible and she was going out like this to the drunkfest activities. Her friends joke saying it looks like the cover for a tinder profile. I was not pleased at all but didn't let her know. She never dressed up for me anytime recently.
> 
> So she returned in a week and I didn't get much of a warm greeting at all. I felt like I was being avoided. I had planned to sit her down and talk with her how I felt. Her response really shocked me. She said she wants me to give her my understanding as a friend while she tries to work out things in her head. She seemed to indicate she was having some sort of midlife crisis. I had fully wanted to start working on getting our relationship to a better place. I was a little shocked because we had a great family vacation just a short time before this. She even initiated sex and we had a great time. So I suggest counseling and she seems to agree. I want to re-kindle our relationship. So after the fall out of that and me reeling through my mind what just happened I felt lost. I wanted to have a date night where we go to the place we used to hang back when we were dating. She dressed up like she did when she was on her trip. We went out to a few places and had drinks. She would leave the table briefly every now and then and she would check her phone and send people messages. We went to another place and had some drinks. I left to go to the bathroom and when I came back she was texting some guys name that I knew I didn't know. I know most all of her friends as we work in the same line of business. I find out this is someone she met on her trip. Now she is texting him while out with me trying to re-kindle our relationship. What a train wreck that night was. On our way home she indicated that she wasn't attracted to me and she believed that if we had an open marriage it would fix our problems. I completely disagree as I can't see how 2 people that are not being close will become closer by opening up their marriage. I felt like my marriage was completely over at this point. We talked the next day and I asked her about this guy she is texting. She said it was just a friend. Obviously that is not the case. I asked if he is just a friend if she would feel embarrassed if I would see what she is sending him. Her response was so what if we send flirty texts back and forth. This is all not OK with me at all. We agree to sign up for some counseling. She said she never had sex with this guy but I have no way to know either way. I know she met him at a place where she had a fancy hotel thousands of miles away. This person told her that he was having the same marriage problems she had and that he fixed them by having an open marriage. I don't know if that is just a pickup line but it would certainly seem to me like a pretty slick way to pick up vulnerable women. So now here we sit in this state of uncertainty. I started to look at phone records and it appears that she would text him thousands of times in a short number of days while she was at this conference and after. She later admitted to hanging out with him at least 3 nights. I didn't mention I knew about the texts. She then told me that when she left for this conference she was so deeply depressed that she felt like killing herself and she poured her heart out to this random guy. She obviously has some attraction for this person but I still don't know how they met. This guy is married and lives far away. However I have seen that she does text him and I believe she sends him messenger messages during the day. I don't know if this guys wife has any idea of all of this activity and I don't believe I will ever know if they slept together. I do know that looking at her text records, she would text him into the wee hours of the morning and start again right way very early sending thousands of texts. I remained silent about all of this. She seemed to be dealing with a midlife crisis of sorts and now this guy she is attracted to is now complicating things more for us and our family. I quietly watch and my wife would go home from work "sick" and sit and text this guy. I would come home and she would be as nice as can be to me. I didn't let her know that I know. We went on a family vacation for a couple days. I would say at this point the relationship seems more like we are just being nice to each other then like anything that felt more normal like it did before our trip. Then as a little more time passed and we were doing what I would say is trying to work on our relationship, she comes home and wants me to watch the kids while she lays down because she has a headache. All this time I am now depressed and experiencing anxiety with all these things going on. I couldn't sleep and I decided to check her text records and I see she would sneak away while we were on our trip and send this guy messages when she was in the bathroom and a couple other times. I also saw that when she needed to lay down, she texted him from the other room for an hour. I had always known that they were messaging each other and I also know logically me wanting her to stop doesn't mean she will want to stop. But now I was mad. I called her out on it. She denied it and said I was crazy. I told her I can show her. She insisted she was messaging a girl friend. Shortly after that she admitted to it and said she wouldn't lie about it anymore. THis is a very sore spot for me. I don't know a tactful way to make whatever texting relationship she has go away. All of these things have happened in the last couple weeks.
> 
> ...





thegman said:


> When I called her out on texting this guy I was livid. I told her I was going to contact the OM wife. She said it wasn't him doing this to me it was her and I should leave him and his family out of it. I have read that if you contact the other spouse things can go really bad. I don't know what the outcome would be. My wife said if I do that our marriage is over. This was only about 2.5 weeks ago that happened. Since then, she seems to have reconciled to wanting to stay. I just don't know what her end game is. * I truly wish I could get into her facebook account and see what these messages are to this guy to see how serious our problem is.* I know this guy lives thousands of miles away. The distance is the only good thing I have going for me. I truly wish I could contact this person's wife and have her not tell him and communicate with me. I would love to hear if she really has an open marriage. I know from the marriage records I see for this guy, he has only been married for 4 years. I find it hard to believe he is having attraction problems and needed to fix them with an open marriage in such a new relationship.



You do computer forensics and are stumped by getting into her FB account?:scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

I did go see my doctor and I now have antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds. This whole thing feels like it is truly ruining my life. I can't focus at work. I can't enjoy the time I spend with my kids. I have become paranoid that every intention she has is to deceptively do something against me. In the past, she would go out of town and I didn't mind at all. I would not check her text records or anything. Now I am keyed up to be wary of everything. I know her friend she is out with this weekend and I could try asking her if she met up with this guy. I don't know if she would tell me the truth though. She is a much closer friend to my wife then to me. I have known her for a long time though. It feels so wrong to believe you have to question everything and even if you do, you may not get the truth. I was very reluctant to try the meds but after some trial and error they do help a lot. I just feel lost as to what to do. She has started to spend time with me and sleep in the same bed and show affection like she hasn't done much in years. Obviously if I had proof that she is meeting up, I would feel no regret in having her stuff waiting for her outside when she returns along with divorce papers. I have contacted a lawyer and got the rundown on the divorce process and proceedings. My wife and I never fought about possessions or money ever so I don't think it would go so terrible. I know though she can become a monster when she is angry. I am also seeing a counselor to help me navigate all this. I am trying to logically work through this and not burn all my bridges at the same time. I also see the truth in the comments that she hasn't respected me in some time. For the last 8 months I have been trying to get a cap on all things going on in my life and I don't take any disrespect. It is a slow process but I work on it everyday with work, kids, spouse, etc. I don't do all the housework now, she helps at least 50% or more. I don't really buy the depressed story myself. I am not a doctor but i thought we had a fairly normal happy life in the past years. We have an appointment with a marriage counselor again on Tuesday and I want to get this affair addressed. If it's only texting, not like I am OK with that, but it would seem more hopeful to patch things up.

I also have been reluctant to reach out to her parents. I think they would chastise her for what she has done and insist that what she is doing is stupid and demand her to stop.


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## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

She has several devices and a work computer that she uses for facebook. I don't know her company work computer password. She changed the password on both of her phones so I don't have an easy way to break into it. She works in computers as well and is privy to what she can do to keep me out. The only thing I could think of is if I had some hidden camera that could record her messages. She sits on a love seat in the corner of the room facing a wall so she has free rein of privacy for the most part.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

thegman said:


> *When I called her out on texting this guy I was livid. I told her I was going to contact the OM wife. She said it wasn't him doing this to me it was her and I should leave him and his family out of it.* I have read that if you contact the other spouse things can go really bad. I don't know what the outcome would be. My wife said if I do that our marriage is over. This was only about 2.5 weeks ago that happened. Since then, she seems to have reconciled to wanting to stay. I just don't know what her end game is. I truly wish I could get into her facebook account and see what these messages are to this guy to see how serious our problem is. I know this guy lives thousands of miles away. The distance is the only good thing I have going for me. I truly wish I could contact this person's wife and have her not tell him and communicate with me. I would love to hear if she really has an open marriage. I know from the marriage records I see for this guy, he has only been married for 4 years. I find it hard to believe he is having attraction problems and needed to fix them with an open marriage in such a new relationship.


Making threats will get you nowhere. Your attempting to manipulate her just causes you to lose status and appear weak and easily played. She is protecting him and their relationship. Your talk but lack of action has enabled her. 

You should have informed his wife immediately without warning and let them deal with the fall out.

You in essence are helping hide their affair and enabling them to continue. Probably don't want to make her mad at you which says she is worth more than you. She isn't.

You can't control her but you better fix and control your life or you'll be in for a long painfull ride.

Better read up
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=eRBiX96X.4nD86OB3SCAFN3OhXQ-


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## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

I absolutely felt the same way about exposing this to the other spouse. I felt like I am dealing with so much bad stuff from my end and this guy has a free rein to do all he wants and feel like there is nothing I can do back. I wanted to put the pain back in his court and see how things play out. I have read that many times the two end up getting together if you ruin things on their side. I have asked my counselor for advice and really only got some open ended non answers about what am I really trying to do. I also have the hard realization that what I do to try to get what I want has no bearing on what the people will end up doing. Me wanting this to stop or even trying to force it to stop is really out of my hands. They will just find another way. I have to say i feel like crawling out of my skin today knowing she hasn't looked her her phone since last night. She always seems to be on her phone 24\7.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I am so very sorry you are here.
I'm also sorry to tell you my fellow TAM'ers above are dead on.

You only know the tip of the iceberg. 

As far as the OM wife....as much as you want the truth about what is going on in your life, so does she.
Give her that information that she deserves, that only you can provide.

As far as the threat that if you "tattle" to OMW she will divorce you, this should really make you feel even more sure that his importance to her is so much higher that yours, her husband, the father of her children's is!!!!!

She needs to be shocked out of this if there is any chance of survival of this marriage. Follow the steps above, in rapid succession. Then you will see if your marriage can sink or swim.

We are here to support you either way. 
Warm hug...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

thegman said:


> She has several devices and a work computer that she uses for facebook. I don't know her company work computer password. She changed the password on both of her phones so I don't have an easy way to break into it. She works in computers as well and is privy to what she can do to keep me out. The only thing I could think of is if I had some hidden camera that could record her messages. She sits on a love seat in the corner of the room facing a wall so she has free rein of privacy for the most part.



She has a burner phone so you can't see the bill. You are allowing her behavior because you are affraid to lose her but in realty she's already gone. Exposure is your only weapon. You like most in the beginning are to affraid to use it. You are allowing her privacy to cheat. 

Get yourself out of the infidelity or learn to live as plan B. Which is what you're currently doing.

She wants an open marrige to screw him openly instead of her secret meet ups.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Thegman, you really don't need to get into F/B, phones, or anything else. She's already told you what's going on and where you stand. You ain't gonna get nowhere by sitting around with your figure in your azz hoping she'll come around. Call the other man's wife and show your old lady you ain't going to tolerate such carp even if it does mean, "we're through". She did say one thing that alone is correct and tells you exactly what's going on when she told you, "it wasn't him doing this to me it was her ". If you want to keep a woman that's been fvcked, screwed and tatooed by another guy its your call but you better do something damn quick if that's the case.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Her friend will be entirely loyal to her and will reveal nothing. It's probable that her friend is even encouraging her to have the affair, having listened to all of your wife's one-sided complaints about you. 

Since she has proven to be so deceptive, you have the right to gain as much intel as you need. For desktop computers that have a standalone keyboard, there are USB devices that can be plugged in between the keyboard and computer that log every keystroke. Since these are not software-based, they will never be detected by any anti-virus, anti-spyware program. 

One betrayed husband in here even installed a hidden camera in the light fixture above the area where his wife used her computer. He was able to record her typing in her password and then had access to all her devices. 

Other betrayed spouses have put a VAR (voice-activated recorder) in the car to successfully record phone calls between the two lovebirds. 

Important: If you implement any of these measures and they bear fruit, NEVER reveal the source of your knowledge. This will allow her to cover her tracks better and will let her derail any conversation with "You had no right to invade my privacy" etc. SHE'S the bad guy in this, not you. SHE'S the deceptive one, not you.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Read this and implement it. There's wisdom behind it. You've been leading from behind; it's time to stiffen your spine.

*http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html*


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

thegman said:


> She has several devices and a work computer that she uses for facebook. I don't know her company work computer password. She changed the password on both of her phones so I don't have an easy way to break into it. She works in computers as well and is privy to what she can do to keep me out. The only thing I could think of is if I had some hidden camera that could record her messages. She sits on a love seat in the corner of the room facing a wall so she has free rein of privacy for the most part.


Tell her that absolute transparency is a key component of reconciliation, and that if she wants to reconcile, she'll be sharing passwords to everything. Additionally, any refusal to do so will lead to divorce.

It really is that simple.

Unless, of course, you want evidence of ongoing adultery to use in the case of divorce.

If adultery doesn't matter where you live (in terms of divorce, anyway), then don't bother w/ any of that. Talk to an attorney to find out.

Either way it sounds like you should be talking w/ divorce attorneys starting first thing Monday morning.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

thegman I know you love your wife...but you are doing everything wrong and making the same mistakes every freshly betrayed spouse makes. 

Please stop chasing her, stop trying to reason with her. Her head is up another guy's ass and she is desperate to save her affair. She is your enemy now. She is full of pride and entitlement and she does not care one whit about you. I'm sorry. It is an ugly new reality for you, but one you must accept.

Please take the advice people here are giving you.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

thegman said:


> I absolutely felt the same way about exposing this to the other spouse. I felt like I am dealing with so much bad stuff from my end and this guy has a free rein to do all he wants and feel like there is nothing I can do back. I wanted to put the pain back in his court and see how things play out. I have read that many times the two end up getting together if you ruin things on their side. I have asked my counselor for advice and really only got some open ended non answers about what am I really trying to do. I also have the hard realization that what I do to try to get what I want has no bearing on what the people will end up doing. Me wanting this to stop or even trying to force it to stop is really out of my hands. They will just find another way. I have to say i feel like crawling out of my skin today knowing she hasn't looked her her phone since last night. She always seems to be on her phone 24\7.


This isn't about you. This isn't about your wife, your marriage or her lover. 

This is about the truth, and you have an obligation to expose the truth for truth's sake. Keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral.


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

It is so interesting reading what some men will say to get a married woman to sleep with them. I too am sorry you are going through this. He is not only been coming onto your wife, but he is lying to her as well. Cheaters are liars.

Like others have said; get on top of this right now. Please tell the OM's wife as soon as you can. She doesn't deserve this. Your wife threatening you that your marriage is over if you do? Really? She is so loyal to this OM and doesn't want to bring his wife and family into it? They are in it already. There are kids involved. Here is something else-she doesn't mean it is over. She likes her comfortable life with you and the kids except you have become the life on the side. Her main focus is someone else. Bottom line though his wife needs to know so she can make her own decisions.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So sorry you're here.

But you're doing it all COMPLETELY wrong.

You're following the BS script. You can be read like an open book. And in that book you are a wounded bird flapping your wings in the ground.

That's completely unattractive and dovetails nicely with the cheaters script. It allows your POS WW to confirm her newfound and history revisionist view of you as an unattractive weight around her neck. It actually fuels her A and allows her to convince herself she deserves better.

We ALL get it and many (not me) have lived through this hell. But you HAVE to recognize you're now in a high stakes poker game - and a poker face is the only thing protecting your kids, assets, and yourself.

Go to the mirror - seriously - and look at that guy until you see a confident man who won't take sh1t and won't be made a laughing stock.

Put that face on whenever she's around. 

Reread all the advice here. There is only one way out of this h3ll and that path seems like the opposite of what you want but believe us the other paths just run you in circles and leave you in misery.

Go to the light, man. THEN you can look back and make a longer term rational decision. 180 and cut the toxic xxxxx out of your life.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

"If it's only texting". 

No. No. No. It is never "only texting". Get that out of your head. She will use that argument too and win you over. 

You immediately adopt a zero tolerance policy. 

You are not being noble to accept that and it is not a better starting point. 

If she is giving her heart to him, even if "only texting" that is extremely destructive to the marriage. 

She threatened divorce so as to protect him. There is no patch for this. You need a complete rebuild from ground up.


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## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

I absolutely agree keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral. The main reason I haven't yet is the OM and his wife supposedly have an open marriage. If that is the case, then I will have no ammo in my favor to get this mess to stop.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

thegman said:


> I absolutely agree keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral. The main reason I haven't yet is the OM and his wife supposedly have an open marriage. If that is the case, then I will have no ammo in my favor to get this mess to stop.




Who told you about open marriage? 

The cheater?

Yes you contact OMW. Compare notes. 

You also have ammo. Called divorce papers. 

Go on the offensive. Stop playing helpless. You are not. You are dancing around not wanting to make the cheater mad. 

If they have open marriage it means he will not leave his wife for yours. So risk is very low. If the marriage is open, he wants more from your wife than texts. 

If their marriage is open you have MORE incentive to bust this up, not less.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

thegman said:


> I absolutely agree keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral. The main reason I haven't yet is the OM and his wife supposedly have an open marriage. If that is the case, then I will have no ammo in my favor to get this mess to stop.




Most open relationships still have boundaries. She may not tolerate him breaking up a marriage and having a married woman pursue him.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

From here forward the only truth is that which you confirm. Everything else should be considered a lie or half truth. 

If and when she stops and you start R, you polygraph her to confirm truth.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

thegman said:


> I absolutely agree keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral. The main reason I haven't yet is the OM and his wife supposedly have an open marriage. If that is the case, then I will have no ammo in my favor to get this mess to stop.



@TaDor can chime in here I believe he had past experience and could confirm that the open relationship status isn't an excuse.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

.


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## MSalmoides (Sep 29, 2016)

...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

thegman said:


> I absolutely agree keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral. The main reason I haven't yet is the OM and his wife supposedly have an open marriage.


Let me guess... your wayward wife told you that?

That's exactly why you shouldn't believe it.

It also directly contradicts her previous concerns regarding the notion that you might "interfere with their marriage and family" by exposing the affair to her.



thegman said:


> If that is the case, then I will have no ammo in my favor to get this mess to stop.


Good Lord. Your thinking is all jacked up.

The only "ammo" or "leverage" that a betrayed spouse ever truly has is the threat of divorce.

But you have to make that threat very real to your WW.

Doesn't sound like you've done that at all.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Two things to point out to you,
1. You say that "if" OM is in an open marriage exposure to OMW would not benefit you. OK - how can it hurt you? Because your cheating wife would divorce you if you did it? If she cares more about him than you, your marriage is basically over anyway.

2. You say you will not tolerate being disrespected. Really? How is texting another man constantly not disrespectful? How is coming home from a trip and getting a tatoo without telling you the real reason behind it not disrespectful? How is lying to you about the OM not disrespectful? How is suggesting an open marriage to "fix" your marriage when she knows how you feel about it not disrespectful?

Oh - and her "girls" trip which she suddenly announced. She will be meeting the OM and they will continue the PA they started on her other trip.

Stop hoping that she will suddenly wake up and want you and the marriage - she will not. She shuts you up with threats of leaving - call her on it. If she leaves, it tells you that there was nothing left to save anyway.

One truth has been proven time and time again here, "You have to be willing to end the marriage to save it".

Expose to OMW.

Tell your wife you cannot continue in a marriage where only one partner (you) wants the marriage. Tell her that a marriage is between a husband and wife. Not between a husband, his wife and her boyfriend. 

She is currently spending more time and effort on him than she is on her marriage and family. That should tell you all you need to know.

Do not let fear of the future rule your life.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

thegman said:


> I absolutely agree keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral. The main reason I haven't yet is the OM and his wife supposedly have an open marriage. If that is the case, then I will have no ammo in my favor to get this mess to stop.


Bwahahahahahaha. Your wife told you this right? Um, well cheaters lie a lot.

The biggest lies told are
We're just friends
Wife is crazy
Wife knows
Etc, etc, etc

Quit being naive


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

thegman said:


> I absolutely felt the same way about exposing this to the other spouse. I felt like I am dealing with so much bad stuff from my end and this guy has a free rein to do all he wants and feel like there is nothing I can do back. I wanted to put the pain back in his court and see how things play out. I have read that many times the two end up getting together if you ruin things on their side. I have asked my counselor for advice and really only got some open ended non answers about what am I really trying to do. I also have the hard realization that what I do to try to get what I want has no bearing on what the people will end up doing. Me wanting this to stop or even trying to force it to stop is really out of my hands. They will just find another way. I have to say i feel like crawling out of my skin today knowing she hasn't looked her her phone since last night. She always seems to be on her phone 24\7.




Excuse to do nothing. The truth fixes a lot of things


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @TaDor can chime in here I believe he had past experience and could confirm that the open relationship status isn't an excuse.


Even if this OM really was in an open marriage (which I don't believe - he's lying to your wife to manipulate her) that still doesn't make interfering with a monogamous marriage okay. Poly people I know would not do that.

Tell the OM's wife. Would you want to live in ignorance? Why should she?

By asking you not to expose, your wife is prioritizing her OM over your marriage. What does that tell you about the likelihood of your marriage making it over this?


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

As others have said, if they had an open marriage, you informing OMW would have no effect whatsoever on their marriage or family. You would not get a response or maybe she would tell you that she does not care and OM would not care either. By being worried that you could mess with his family she basically tells you that there is no open marriage or at least chances are very small or it may be against the rule of their agreement. Many people only allow ONSs, for example at conferences where they are alone in a hotel like in your case, swinging, swaping partners but no emotional envolvement. That would be polyamory. Her being worried about his marriage also pretty strongly negates the possibility that OM is lying to her about it. If she believed that he is in an open marriage that allows their relationship as it is then she would not have to be worried about his marriage or family. Everthing would be ok regardless of you informing OMW or not.

Your wife stays with you because you watch the kids while she is out pining for OM. OM is too far away and won't commit to her and she just wants the attention and her fantasy. You are just a necessary "evil" she has to endure to keep her life together. I would recommend you to get out of her life as soon as possible.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

1) your wife sees you as nothing but a partner that helps provide a comfortable life. She dreams of sex with other men. Hell, she even told you she's not attracted to you. That's classic cheater speak for: I don't love you, I'm entitled to find someone I am attracted to and "love".

2). You are screwing yourself and making yourself miserable because you don't want your great life with the woman you love (she's not that person anymore, btw). That's totally understandable and I was in the same mindset as you. But you have to let it go and move forward. You will never be truly happy with your wife again. Why? Because she'll never love you in the same way you do her again, and you'll never trust her again.
It sux big time, but it's the truth and acceptance is the only thing that will start the healing turn this traumatizing event in your life.

3). She's lying. She knows he doesn't have an open marriage or she wouldn't care so much if you contact her. 

4) you know your wife is a disgusting liar, doesn't really want you, and it's just a matter of time until either this guy divorces and marries your wife, or she finds an unmarried guy to fill your role.

You have one tiny chance:
That is to file for divorce, show her what an angry, strong, no bull**** MAN you are when he is wronged by a ****ty wife---- and move on to a woman that appreciates a loyal man. In doing that, you may force her OM into actually making some effort to take care of her instead of you, her cushy/safe life will be ripped out from under her, and she will likely see you as a man worthy of some respect. Likely the OM will bolt, and move on to his next conquest. But who cares--- look at how much your wife values your loyalty and your presence in her life. When you are healed from this, you'll see what a rotten person/wife she really is, and the idiot glasses will be off and you'll be repulsed by her true appearance.

I urge you to file for divorce and move forward. Staying in this limbo with a cheating, uncaring "wife" will make you lose your mind. 

Keep your dignity. Keep your healthy mind. 
Get rid of the lousy person she is now. The person you knew is dead. Really. Treat it that way.

Don't wait around for the I love you but I'm not in love with you speech, the next "I'm not attracted to you" speech. That crap is soul crushing.

If you keep this up at this point, realize that now that you know, it's your own fault you're staying miserable and tortured.
Think about what you'd tell a friend in a similar situation. Do that.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Don't recall this being mentioned, but probably too late for a PI for her weekend excursion... this would only matter in the right state though but if with OM, would be worthy in discussions with the poor man's wife.

Please consider taking some control of your life here... get on an attorney, get on a better counselor, get a better doctor, and seriously consider getting off the meds... you need self-clarity as you approach her parents with this.

Then find a physical activity and embed yourself into it... when you think she is triggering your anxiety, hammer it hard, then meditate to wind down.

You are in pain any way you progress, these lessons hurt but are so valuable as you learn to leave that which is hurting you... no, destroying every aspect of the self that was once good.

Let it hurt, these things drive us to action... I do not believe the meds here may allow this and I may be wrong, but I believe you have incredible control over all this without them because you never needed them before this. If you were like this pre-relationship breakdown, I would have a different viewpoint. *I am not a doctor nor a psychologist, so take this at face value as observing opinion only*

You need a better support structure... if you are of religious, find someone through your faith you can lean on, you need a "big brother" in the worst way. If my little brother was going through this I'd be "mindfully" kicking him in the pants so he could see this from every angle.

Think of TAM as that "big brother"... so bullfight that angry monster with a "Toro!" as you step aside every time she charges at you while you rearrange the furniture, let her parents know your concerns about her marriage attitudes, insist on open transparency, and set your boundaries and timeframes hard and fast.

Then let go and be patient... though I believe you will have all the answers you need fairly quickly.

I believe in you brother...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

thegman said:


> I absolutely agree keeping the OM's wife in the dark is immoral. The main reason I haven't yet is the OM and his wife supposedly have an open marriage. If that is the case, then I will have no ammo in my favor to get this mess to stop.


You know that's a load of BS, right? The open marriage part? Complete and utter BS.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think the Zoloft is a great idea. Any kind of anti anxiety. You need it right now. I don't think it will affect your judgement. 

Know that this will not get better EVER, until you accept that the wife you once had doesn't exist anymore. Get rid of the Doppleganger she is--- she will suck the life out of you... Really. 
Isn't she??????????


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> 1) your wife sees you as nothing but a partner that helps provide a comfortable life. She dreams of sex with other men. Hell, she even told you she's not attracted to you. That's classic cheater speak for: I don't love you, I'm entitled to find someone I am attracted to and "love".
> 
> 2). You are screwing yourself and making yourself miserable because you don't want your great life with the woman you love (she's not that person anymore, btw). That's totally understandable and I was in the same mindset as you. But you have to let it go and move forward. You will never be truly happy with your wife again. Why? Because she'll never love you in the same way you do her again, and you'll never trust her again.
> It sux big time, but it's the truth and acceptance is the only thing that will start the healing turn this traumatizing event in your life.
> ...


Yes... we are on the same track here.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think this kind of thing that's op's wife is doing to her husband is something that could cause lots of men who aren't able to cope, to possibly have a mental breakdown.
It should almost criminal what she is doing to him.
It's obvious he is nothing to her but a babysitter, housekeeper, and paycheck. 
He is still in her life for ONE reason--
She has not figured out a way to keep the cushy life AND have the other man all the time.
Her problems: the OM is married, and she doesn't have enough money on her own.

Who would choose to be with a woman like that if he was in a healthy state of mind and wasn't already attached to her?

Only one thing to do: file.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I would've killed for my husband to give me the chance you're willing to give. And she sh*ts on your shoe. File for divorce.


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## thegman (Dec 3, 2016)

I have felt like I am close to a mental breakdown for sure. Depression and anxiety are things I never recalled feeling before. I am trying to cope. I see a counselor once a week now and it helps ground my thoughts and provide a good sounding board. I can't focus at work and things that used to make me happy now make me feel despair. I struggle trying to have fun times with my kids. All I can think about is how unsettling this all is. My situation doesn't feel as horrible as some others I have read on this forum but it may be that I just don't have all the information at this time. Maybe it's much worse then I think. Dwelling on stuff like that doesn't do me any good at all. It just makes me feel much worse. I am trying to take things one day at a time and appreciate things at face value when I can. It is a struggle. 

I don't want to be an enabler and just provide for someone that really isn't committed in the relationship. Things have improved since this whole crisis happened but I don't know if it's just an act or something sincere. I would have to believe at least some of it is sincere because the most truth I get from my wife is when she is drinking and we had a multi hour conversation about much of these things just last week. I do need to get a firm grasp on all that is happening and draw my line in the sand. I don't want to proceed on like this as it is very emotionally painful for me to try to work on a marriage while she is continuing whatever affair she is having.


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## bojangles (Oct 11, 2016)

thegman said:


> Any advice is much appreciated, *especially to get rid of this emotional affair she is having*. I am trying to get my life back to normal but I have become depressed over all of this and feel like I need to be on guard for whatever antics my wife tries next.


I doubt the responses you've gotten are what you wanted to hear. I'm 3 months separated from a WW that could or would not end a co worker affair. By the time I found this forum, it was too late. Had I found this forum on D day and followed the advice you're getting from the majority, I think it would have worked. At worst, I would have saved a lot of the heartache, anxiety and loss of dignity you're going to continue to experience if you stay on your current trajectory. 

Here are some antics your WW has already used and some others to familiarize yourself with: lying by omission/half truth/limited hangout, trickle truth, gaslighting, blame shifting, rug sweeping, cake eating, history rewriting, and false narratives. 

The longer you hang out around here the more you'll see similar stories to the point you'll think that you've married some kind of cyborg that is programmed to run an affair script. Stopping communication or trips to go see OM will be like fighting the Terminator. It's a losing battle and OM will be back. 

Here is an article on "affair fog". Its advice differs from what some others are telling you to do if you're looking for a different approach but I would quit playing nice about it...as it's been mentioned, this will make you look like a schmuck in her eyes and therefore less attractive. Once zero attraction remains, you're done. This is probably already the case but it can be a hard pill to swallow.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This continues to be 'unsettling' because you won't take control. I know it is difficult, but you have to stop being afraid. This is YOUR life and the values you bring to it are important not just for you, but for your children.

So, man up!

Make a plan that includes no more bullsh!t from her. Your job now is to get your own life on a more secure path, whether it is with her or without her. So, get going with that. Make a concrete plan:

- Inform the OM's wife immediately. Immediately. If by some minuscule chance they actually have an open marriage, it does no harm. If they don't - which, of course, is the more likely reality - then you have done the right thing. Don't be afraid to do this! Stop with the fear! What is your WW going to do to you when she finds out? Have you put in chains? No, all she can do is pitch a fit and try to 'unsettle' you. So what? Stop letting your fear stop you from doing the right thing.

- See an attorney to see what a divorce would look like. Get into the driver's seat on this. Do you really want to keep living with a wife who cheats, lies, and holds you in contempt? I'm sure you don't, so find out from an attorney what you need to do to free yourself from her abuse.

- Get an STD test. Who knows what she's exposing you to? Don't be afraid to do this. Lots of innocent people get infected with serious diseases because they are having sex with liars.

- Read up on the 180 and follow it in order to build some emotional distance and strength:

The Healing Heart: The 180

- Keep yourself hydrated; eat healthy; work out. Take care of yourself.

Stiffen your spine and stand up for yourself. She is walking all over you. This is not a way to live & certainly not a recipe for saving a marriage.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> If she wants the marriage, she needs to be transparent. Plus, her protecting him is because she is in love with him and could only see him in a positive light as he stimulates that excitement and new desire that comes from novelty into her. She is protecting that source. Exposing it may mean the end of it and she may have went underground to keep her new addiction.


I think it more about carpet sweeping. If nothing bad happens then no harm done - therefore she did nothing wrong (ie just had fun).

To me, sounds like OP married a party girl. One who doesn't like the boring world the rest of us live in. He and family are the homework that others (Mom/Dad/rest of world) "expect" her to do. A fun fling for a while but scene is starting to drag man.....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So she takes powerful psychoactive medication whilst drinking copious amounts of alcohol?

That can lead to all sorts of issues.

She needs to be seen by a doctor who is appraised of her drinking like a fish whilst on meds.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Look you know what is the most unattractive thing is for a woman is a very weak man. She's disrespecting you in every form. You think it's a emotional affair please he's digging her out. If you're afraid to lose your marriage because she's going to get mad and divorce you. What about you like maybe you might be mad that she sleeping with another man. This being weak doesn't pay off they just lose even more and more respect towards you. For your own sake and nobody else's get some balls buddy stand up and be a man.! you certainly haven't been anything resembling like a man. Women do not like nor are attracted to a weak man, they despise a helpless weak man witch in her eyes that is you. Everybody here has gone through or is going through the same unfortunate situation you're here for. 

I don't understand why you would want to work it out with her she cheated she's cheating on you. But OK this is what you want. Why don't you do yourself some good and listen to what these people have to say. First thing you need to do notify the OM wife exposure tell everybody her parents your parents everybody. Affairs thrive in the dark and it's secrecy, bring it out to light.
This should help knock her out of her affairs fog that she's in. File for divorce this to the help knock her out of the fog. like someone else's told you don't have to go through with it, I don't know why you wouldn't but OK The amount of disrespect she has shown you oh and don't forget "sleeping with another man".! should be enough for you to end. Try having a little respect for yourself she certainly doesn't Love or respect for you.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I have to agree that if you think this hasn't gone physical yet, you are deluding yourself. You need to think logically and see this for what it is.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

You CANNOT reconcile with an unremorseful wife. You cannot. Because until she feels the pain of what she did to you, she will do it again, and again. Hell, she's still talking to him! She feels no pain for what she did. She thinks it's fine, she deserved to have her affair, and she doesn't care a single bit how she's hurting you. You cannot reconcile this until she wakes up, and sadly, she may not.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Everyone one says do not expouse is wrong. Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums. 

This guy is a vampire destroying your families life. Drive him off now, if that means the WS goes too, accept it and proceed.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Sorry that I am rather late to the party, but if you employ the "iceberg principle," you will greatly find that the info that you have in your W represents the part of the iceberg that sticks up out of the water, that what you really don't see and know about her clandestine exploits represents the massive part of that same block of ice that quietly floats, all too hidden, beneath the ocean!

Methinks that she is selfishly attempting to pull the wool down over your eyes! Consider doing "the 180!"

Please gather as much more info that you can possibly amass, then visit a good "piranha" family attorney to assess you of all of your legal proprietary and custodial rights, and also have your MD give you a once-over for the presence of STDs!*


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

LosingHim said:


> You CANNOT reconcile with an unremorseful wife. You cannot. Because until she feels the pain of what she did to you, she will do it again, and again. Hell, she's still talking to him! She feels no pain for what she did. She thinks it's fine, she deserved to have her affair, and she doesn't care a single bit how she's hurting you. You cannot reconcile this until she wakes up, and sadly, she may not.



Great! Now follow that advice as well please.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

thegman said:


> I don't feel like I have any say in anything at all at this point because anytime I say anything I get blasted so I just didn't say much at all.


Nah. Why?

You can't tell her where to go and what to do. Are you cool with her having a boyfriend? Is that alright with you?

Do you have a say about what happens in your life and how you expect to be treated?

If you don't feel you have a say in your wife having a boyfriend or another man being romantically interested in your wife and you're ok with it then cool.

If you're not okay with your wife having a boyfriend, going to a city to meet this boyfriend, them having sex, you possibly contracting an STD, your wife leaving you then pal, why wouldn't you say no, I'm not ok with this, and if you want to have a boyfriend, someone to write sweet nothings to, to go to the big city and have fun then go ahead but not as my wife..

unless you're ok with all that?

Are you ok with all that?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Gman:

You really only have two choices:

1. Live in infidelity. This entails what you are doing now, which is trying to force her to turn away from her AP through words.

2. Get out of infidelity. That entails getting sick and tired of being sick and tired, then doing something about it. File, 180, expose far and wide, stop being her emotional tampon, and remove her ability to eat cake. 

If you do 2, she will lose her sh!t, and that is okay. Why? Because you have taken control away from a wayward, and waywards nearly always love control. Then the onus is on her.

"Wife, I will not share my partner. Since it is clear you have no intention of being monogamous, I am moving on."

She will scream. She will holler. She will blame shift. She will gas light.

Your response?

Shrug your shoulders and tell her you would rather leave her than share her, then walk away.

Take control back from your WW.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

Dude, just wanted to say that these folks are telling you correctly- listen to them. My WW affair with a coworker started because of the nature of those mother-effing work trips and conferences that are like one big party. They are like a adult vacation with a little work thrown in for a reason to justify it. You are exactly right there- and she has got her a taste of that lifestyle and rubbing elbows with coworkers in that fantasy setting and probably fell for this ******* just like my WW did. 

As long as she travels for her work to those events you will never shake her out of this mindset she is in. She's gotten used to having a double life- one at home with you and kids- and another when shes off gallivanting with her coworkers. She knows she can manage you and keep you in the dark and guessing. Since she knows you are onto her now, she'll go to secret apps and work phones to communicate. She knows you cant penetrate her work environment and she can carry on forever with this **** unless you stop her. That involves you not putting up with her ****. Transparency on all devices, no more travelling like that, her seeing counsellor etc. If she wont do it- I hate to say you are better off without her. The guys saying you have to risk the marriage to save it are 100% correct. File for D- and only stop it when she has committed back to saving the marriage by her actions- not just words.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Why? Because you have taken cilantro away from a wayward, and waywards nearly always love control.


Please please please disable your auto-correct. It just leads to miscommunication. May the dweeb who wrote the app die of ass cancer.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your goal should be divorce, detachment, get healthy mentally, and find someone else. The last part is not as hard as the first.

It hurts, but it is something you will overcome even though you think you can't. Have faith. You will get through this. It seems like the end of the world now, but you will look back on this and realize that you couldn't have fixed this no matter what--- and that it wasn't even close to all your fault. 

You have a future. Look to it.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

destroyd said:


> As long as she travels for her work to those events you will never shake her out of this mindset she is in. She's gotten used to having a double life- one at home with you and kids- and another when shes off gallivanting with her coworkers. She knows she can manage you and keep you in the dark and guessing. Since she knows you are onto her now, she'll go to secret apps and work phones to communicate. She knows you cant penetrate her work environment and she can carry on forever with this **** unless you stop her. That involves you not putting up with her ****. Transparency on all devices, no more travelling like that, her seeing counsellor etc. *If she wont do it- I hate to say you are better off without her. * The guys saying you have to risk the marriage to save it are 100% correct. File for D- and only stop it when she has committed back to saving the marriage by her actions- not just words.


Yup! If she won't save the marriage, then it's not worth saving, is it? Marriage isn't like a group project where if one person doesn't pull their weight, the others can work extra to still make it successful. In marriage, if one person isn't doing their bit, you don't have a marriage anymore.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

syhoybenden said:


> Please please please disable your auto-correct. It just leads to miscommunication. May the dweeb who wrote the app die of ass cancer.


LOL, yeah... I just corrected that.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

(Not a fan of cilantro....)


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Did I just get a new nick name? 

(Hiding my head)


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Sorry. I don't see the humor in thread jack joking in a thread in which an OP is facing infidelity and possibly losing his marriage and wife. But that's just me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Sorry. I don't see the humor in thread jack joking in a thread in which an OP is facing infidelity and possibly losing his marriage and wife. But that's just me.


You are right.

Thank you for reigning me in.

Back to the OP.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

"depression, anxiety, and OCD"

my bet would be she is also undiagnosed bipolar.
She may be clinically unable to resist cheating on you. Bipolar people have a strong need for others to compliment them, and to prove they are still beautiful/sexy by submitting to all sorts of kinky extramarital sex.

But the important thing is, IF you get them on the right medications, AND they stay on their meds, they can suddenly reappear as the loving monogamous wife you are searching for.

If I were you, I would look up the symptoms of bipolar people, and see if it matches her. If so, TRY to get her into counseling. But only if you still love her and are up to it, because it will not be a n easy road or you. There is often backsliding, cheating on taking the meds, etc.

On the right meds, a bipolar person CAN safely travel for business, for instance.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Talker67 said:


> "depression, anxiety, and OCD"
> 
> my bet would be she is also undiagnosed bipolar.
> She may be clinically unable to resist cheating on you. Bipolar people have a strong need for others to compliment them, and to prove they are still beautiful/sexy by submitting to all sorts of kinky extramarital sex.
> ...




Sorry but if my spouse were bipolar and cheated I'd definitely leave. Life is too short to choose lifelong heartache, insecurity and caregiving. My dad was a shrink so yes I know this sounds callous but I also learned that you can not change basic characteristics like this and it's ok to decide to take care of yourself first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Sorry but if my spouse were bipolar and cheated I'd definitely leave. Life is too short to choose lifelong heartache, insecurity and caregiving. My dad was a shrink so yes I know this sounds callous but I also learned that y*ou can not change basic characteristics like this* and it's ok to decide to take care of yourself first.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that is most likely correct. i just wanted to give the OP some hope!


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

QFT:

You have taken cilantro away from a wayward, and waywards nearly always love cilantro.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @TaDor can chime in here I believe he had past experience and could confirm that the open relationship status isn't an excuse.


Its A VERY bad excuse that her AP is in an OR. (Open Relationship). It's total BS. I'm sorry I didn't see the post this weekend, but if I were in the OP's shoes and KNOW now what I did before my nightmare... I'd let her go on her trip, but would have her locked out and filed against her by the time she got back (if possible). When D-Day happened, she was at work with the OM. I did *NOT* let her have access to home, police involved. Our friends who are in OR were very upset with her infidelity, lost friendships because of it.

thegman (and others). I'm on page 3 of this 5-page post... so as I know of things now:

As stated, you have NOTHING to lose by contacting the the OMW. Everyone here KNOWS she is Lying, but who knows what the truth is? You won't know until you call the OMW.
1 - OM is not in an OR, OMW will be upset and can work with you to find the truth.
2 - OM *IS* in an OR, OMW does NOT know her husband is dating your wife... but *WILL BE* angry to find out that his GF is cheating on you. She will not stand for it.
3 - OM *IS* in an OR, OMW knows her husband is dating your wife... but *WILL BE* angry to find out that his GF is cheating on you. She will not stand for it.

If your wife's OM was a proper OR guy, he would NOT be cheating with your wife. He would talk or meet or know about you first. (unless she is lying to her AP - which happens). I have dated a few married women, with knowledge from her man.

So, do buy yourself a VAR ASAP, use it everytime.
Do proper exposure101.
Your wife will be EXTREMELY mad at you, but so what. YOU start the divorce anyway.

Sorry you are here, it will be a very rough ride - but eventually will get better either way.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

If she is bi-polar and not medicated - then chances of affairs can be higher, and fall pretty hard too. If she is bipolar, taking meds and DRINKING - then the booze can make the meds infective...

You will not like much what is said here.

But honestly, many of the people here have HELPED me so much.

Trust *us* - we know your pain.


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## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

rzmpf said:


> Many people only allow ONSs


Many? Seriously, "many"? 

This open marriage **** is rare. For every man who actually has an open marriage, there are about 1000 men cheating on their wives and telling stupid lies about being in open marriages.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

Popcorn2015 said:


> Many? Seriously, "many"?
> 
> This open marriage **** is rare. For every man who actually has an open marriage, there are about 1000 men cheating on their wives and telling stupid lies about being in open marriages.


Relatively speaking, as in "many people of those people who have an open marriage/relationship". I just wanted to bring accross that even if the OM had an open marriage (which is unlikely) it is still unlikely that his involvement with OP's WW is acceptable for his wife which means there is no reason to not expose to OMW.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Talker67 said:


> "depression, anxiety, and OCD"
> 
> my bet would be she is also undiagnosed bipolar.
> She may be clinically unable to resist cheating on you. Bipolar people have a strong need for others to compliment them, and to prove they are still beautiful/sexy by submitting to all sorts of kinky extramarital sex.
> ...


And only if SHE commits to fixing herself.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

Just some thoughts... 

Every poster who said, *women hate weak men*, is correct. It's absolutely true. Women are repulsed by weak men. She has proven your marriage vows are insignificant. Meaningless. She justifies your pain and the damage to your relationship as necessary collateral damage to get what she wants, even deserves. Do you really want to be compared to this guy? No. Your marriage is done. Say it ten times, one hundred times, one thousand... say it until it sinks in. 

Women are incapable of loving a man the way he needs to be loved. They have no clue how important loyalty is to a man. Your wife isn't interested in being your wife or a mother. Her well-being supersedes your well-being and your kids' well-being. She's ready to destroy your family, and your kids' home, if you stop her from being with this guy. She has an exaggerated sense of entitlement, as most women do. So, get rid of your idealistic Disney concept of love. It doesn't exist in her world.

Take control. Make your well-being THE PRIORITY. You cannot be the father your kids need in your current emotional and mental state. Pain is a great motivator. Make changes today. As soon as you can, start tapering the meds. Long term, meds will not strengthen you or make you whole. Meds will only numb you. Ten years will fly by and you'll still be broken.

Focus on work; expand your skill set. Focus on being a great father. Take up an old hobby or find a new one. And, join a gym... the gym always gives you somewhere to go and disappear for a few hours. Lifting weights and exercise will get you out of your funk and depression. Most importantly, you will spend less time in that toxic environment your wife created. You will eventually meet new people, not necessarily women, just people who will value your friendship. You will start to feel better about yourself. 

Whoever said, _"... watch your wife lose her sh*t when you take control"_ was spot on. Leave early for work. Stay later. Go out with the guys. Do things you enjoy. That's taking control. She'll notice her well-being and happiness are no longer your priority; no longer a litmus test to measure your success as a man, father, and husband. She will ask questions, Be brief. Give short answers. Vagueness in your friend. Don't explain. 

Don't get mad or angry. Don't yell. Women know how to deal with an emotions, positive or negative. They are emotional beings. But, they have no idea what to do when you show no emotion. Be apathetic. Stop showing interest in whatever she's doing. When you do this, make no mistake, she will use sex to barter, to regain control. Refuse intercourse. No man wants to be his wife's second choice. Accept her offers of oral sex. When her efforts aren't producing fruit, prepare for a tantrum that any five-year-old would envy. 

Keep your head up. Ask for sole custody. I wish you well on your road to recovery.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

But it is easy for some people to mistake kindness and love for being weak.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah... like a "man" who acts like a jerk, puts the woman in her place, doesn't have much to do with bringing up the children, does his sex thing for 5 minutes and goes to sleep, hangs our with the boys all the time = real man. (lots of people respect these types)

While the "weak man" = Wants a partnership with his wife, wants to be involved with his children, likes to give in the bedroom as much as he receives, brings her flowers, still wants to date her (yet still some out with the boys time). = weak?

Hint, be the man who respects his family, cared about her needs... and will still pull her hair and make her squeal like a pig in the bedroom. 

I think some people live for the drama. Life is too much of a pain for childish drama as it is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> But it is easy for some people to mistake kindness and love for being weak.


Not if the man also has good boundaries and consequences; i.e., gives freely but not if he is being shat upon. And lets her know WHY.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

turnera said:


> And only if SHE commits to fixing herself.


i am not sure if a bipolar person CAN commit. I have talked to a couple who do FINALLY realize they need their meds, and consistently stay on them. But they are just one missed dose away from ruin....not a great situation.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

thegman said:


> *I don't want to be an enabler and just provide for someone that really isn't committed in the relationship.* Things have improved since this whole crisis happened but I don't know if it's just an act or something sincere...
> 
> I don't want to proceed on like this as it is very emotionally painful for me to try to work on a marriage while she is continuing whatever affair she is having.


Ok, first step... recognize, admit the problem. Second step, act accordingly. You state "I don't want to be an enabler." But, that's the path your taking. 



Stack said:


> Every poster who said, *women hate weak men*, is correct. It's absolutely true. Women are repulsed by weak men.
> 
> Don't get mad or angry. Don't yell. *Women know how to deal with an emotions, positive or negative. They are emotional beings. But, they have no idea what to do when you show no emotion.* Be apathetic. Stop showing interest in whatever she's doing. When you do this, make no mistake, she will use sex to barter, to regain control.


10 years ago, if this assessment of weak men and emotional women was presented to me... I would of laughed it off as male domination mumbo-jumbo. But after being cheated on for years and coming out the other side, one benefit you gain (of the vary few) is a sense of clarity. I've watched and listen to my fWW more intently over the last few years than the previous 20. 

Women have vary shallow respect for weak men. They want a H that takes charge, makes decisions, and does not waver, regardless of outcome. Add children to the equation and it intensifies. It's not chauvinism, it's DNA. 

As @Stack suggest, don't argue with your W in an emotional plea. State your opinion, voice your concern... and shut the hell up. Don't be fooled ore baited into an emotionally charged exchange. It just does not work. Remember, at the core, she really does want someone who is decisive and strong.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The problem with bipolar people is that when they're on the high, they don't 'need' the meds anymore.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

@thegman - you have access to some of the best of the best on the internet here. How are you doing?

If you commit to posting daily, even if it's a short "I'm ok guys, there is no change" you'll find yourself with an incredible, incredible support network. I strongly recommend this. I'd be happy to help as well.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Scared away another one.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

There's a guy over on SI whose wife cheated with eight OMs, plus an additional three who had the sense to turn her down. He's still over there moaning and whining about his pain, and has yet to file for divorce. She has no respect for him. She smirks at him when he throws a temper tantrum and blames him for his pain. Still, he's looking for any sign of remorse so he can say, "See how remorseful my wife is? That's a sign that the marriage can be saved." I hope that guy's a troll because I can't imagine being that spineless, pathetic, and weak.


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## californian (Jan 28, 2010)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Part of the problem is that she has no respect for you anymore, because you've let yourself be walked over. That lack of respect has translated into a lack of attraction to you.


Eggs don't lay chickens. She already had neither attraction nor respect for him to start with. Now argue against it.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

becareful2 said:


> There's a guy over on SI whose wife cheated with eight OMs, plus an additional three who had the sense to turn her down. He's still over there moaning and whining about his pain, and has yet to file for divorce. She has no respect for him. She smirks at him when he throws a temper tantrum and blames him for his pain. Still, he's looking for any sign of remorse so he can say, "See how remorseful my wife is? That's a sign that the marriage can be saved." I hope that guy's a troll because I can't imagine being that spineless, pathetic, and weak.


Yah. Read that for a few pages. His WW is posting on the Wayward side. They kinda sorta feel like the same person. Smells like something wafting from under a bridge.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Please pardon my threadjacking, but while we're on the subject...

Personally, although the emotional outpourings were much more eye-opening on SI, I like this site better because when I was there it felt as though the Waywards were "quarantined" on their subforum. Gods help you if you said anything that could be even remotely construed as criticism to a BS when you weren't on the Wayward Side, and usually, even if you were. I once got angry at a BS for wishing her WH's suicidally depressed OW would have completed her suicide attempt. Being mentally ill myself, hearing someone feel actual _loathing_ towards someone else because that someone is suicidal... I snapped at her. I was then immediately banned. Was I in the wrong? IDK, but my conscience feels clean about the whole thing.

Okay, back to the original poster, sorry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

lostmyreligion said:


> Yah. Read that for a few pages. His WW is posting on the Wayward side. They kinda sorta feel like the same person. Smells like something wafting from under a bridge.


Did you see the one in the WW side where all she talks about is kink and stuff. Last I checked no one answered that one. Even for WW it's just too much. I wonder about that one too.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Please pardon my threadjacking, but while we're on the subject...
> 
> Personally, although the emotional outpourings were much more eye-opening on SI, I like this site better because when I was there it felt as though the Waywards were "quarantined" on their subforum. Gods help you if you said anything that could be even remotely construed as criticism to a BS when you weren't on the Wayward Side, and usually, even if you were. I once got angry at a BS for wishing her WH's suicidally depressed OW would have completed her suicide attempt. Being mentally ill myself, hearing someone feel actual _loathing_ towards someone else because that someone is suicidal... I snapped at her. I was then immediately banned. Was I in the wrong? IDK, but my conscience feels clean about the whole thing.
> 
> Okay, back to the original poster, sorry.


That site is a place for codependency. Their solution for surviving infidelity is to live in codependency sadly. I'm sorry but the only people thriving on that site are the ones divorcing, that is the happiest part of the site, everyone else seems miserable.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Weak doesn't mean kind, or emotionally open. Weak means wishy-washy, over emotional, indecisive, it also means not sticking up for yourself. It's scary to a lot of women if her man doesn't seem like he is taking care of her. She want to be nurtured that is in her nature. If you can't show that you have strength it means she has to take over, most don't want that. Also I think there is a thought, if he doesn't stand up to me he must not be worth much. This is kind of the male version of a word that use to be spoken about highly promiscuous woman - "Easy", no matter what you thought of that word the idea was that if she has sex with everyone she is not really that great because anyone can have her. Being weak makes these men "easy" to them. 

Strong doesn't mean ordering your wife around, or treating her like property. Strong means decisive and comforting. It means not taking crap and expecting respect as well as giving it. 

I will say this after reading these boards it is very clear to me that there are some women posters who will immediately attack male posters if they at all show any signs of sadness or discontent about anything. Don't like saying that, makes me sad to say it, but I is there for sure. 

Women don't want to be with weak men. Men don't like weak men. The solution is to get strong.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> But it is easy for some people to mistake kindness and love for being weak.


Nothing wrong with kindness and love, but there is when that kindness is repeatedly abused and said values are given as the reason for continued inaction.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Weak.

Strong. 

And all of the multiple thousands of posts on all the multiple thousands of threads wrapped around those contextual concepts. 

It's all pretty moot. 

The *only* infidelity related advice that works is rooted in one very basic tenet - the only person that you can effectively and completely control in this situation is *you*. This has to be understood.

Understand that you *have* to act to get out of infidelity.

Understand *how* you have to act to get out of infidelity.

*Act* accordingly.

It's like going to a gym to get healthy and in shape. The strength may not be your primary reason for the program, but it builds and is an inevitable pleasant side effect regardless.

And just like the gym, waiting for or expecting other people to lift the weight for you is never going to work.

Oh, and you should definitely get someone who isn't your wife to spot. 

Attorneys are a good choice.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

becareful2 said:


> There's a guy over on SI whose wife cheated with eight OMs, plus an additional three who had the sense to turn her down. He's still over there moaning and whining about his pain, and has yet to file for divorce. She has no respect for him. She smirks at him when he throws a temper tantrum and blames him for his pain. Still, he's looking for any sign of remorse so he can say, "See how remorseful my wife is? That's a sign that the marriage can be saved." I hope that guy's a troll because I can't imagine being that spineless, pathetic, and weak.


Yeah. I've read her threads in the wayward section. Disgusting woman. 

People over there are like "Divorce her already!!!":cussing:


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

becareful2 - what thread is that? (I'm not really over there)

sokillme -


> "Strong doesn't mean ordering your wife around, or treating her like property. Strong means decisive and comforting. It means not taking crap and expecting respect as well as giving it."


Huge part of the population can't tell the difference between strong vs bully or strong vs abuse, and that goes for both men and women.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

TaDor said:


> becareful2 - what thread is that? (I'm not really over there)
> 
> sokillme -
> Huge part of the population can't tell the difference between strong vs bully or strong vs abuse, and that goes for both men and women.


A person can display strength without being a bully or abusive. It is called polite indifference. 

Talk calmly. Do not argue. Do not debate who is wrong and who is right. Keep interaction simple and keep on topic. End each conversation with "Have a nice day".


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Sorry you are going through this.

I would recommend saying to her at this point in our marriage i do not believe we are at a point where i can believe you are going on a girls weekend. Your recent lies and behavour have led me to this conclusion.

If you choose to go away rather than stay and fix our marriage make no mistake you will not be returning home to me.

Mate she will most likely, scream and carry on call you names, say your controlling etc, but stay strong. Only a firm attitude towards her can fix this behavour. And if she wont come to her senses be prepared to let her go. I know its tough believe me i do but staying strong and not showing weakness is the only way to go.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Did you see the one in the WW side where* all she talks about is kink and stuff.* Last I checked no one answered that one. Even for WW it's just too much. I wonder about that one too.


well that IS a valid thing. A lot of maried people have one who is LD and the other is HD. If your wife comes to you and says she just read 50 shades of gray, and wants you to tie her up and do nasty sex things to her....and you laugh at her and walk away, guess where she DOES go to find that kinky sex? to some OM. take care of things at home, and those probelms get nipped in the bud.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Talker67 said:


> well that IS a valid thing. A lot of maried people have one who is LD and the other is HD. If your wife comes to you and says she just read 50 shades of gray, and wants you to tie her up and do nasty sex things to her....and you laugh at her and walk away, guess where she DOES go to find that kinky sex? to some OM. take care of things at home, and those probelms get nipped in the bud.


This post was way more then Shades of Gray. I believe it's gone now. I think it was fake.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

So now that Christmas has come and gone, when's the divorce happening?


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