# Feeling Cheap



## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

Ok... so my husband and I have been together since our teens and we are now in our 30s. We both came from poverty, and I was excited and looking forward to growing as adults and creating a future for ourselves. The years have progressed and as the "future" approached, I could see that I was the only one growing and creating a life. Being married to him has not been a partnership. He's a great guy, but frankly, I have worked so hard to create a comfortable life for us, to start our family, and encouragement (read nagging if you want) from me for him to do the same created a huge point of contention between us. Add to that the curveball of his poor health (due to his weight) which has meant that life was upended with me trying to manage his care. So all of this is background to understand why I can barely stand to be touched by him. We started getting counseling, but I have to say that I don't know if he understands how far gone I was/am. I did cheat on him. Which he has no idea, and he can't. But it was something I had to do. From it I felt a sense of vindication, liberation, and that I had regained some control over my own life. But I have lost my connection with him. Our sex life is so monotonous and obligatory that I feel like a pathetic piece of **** after. It's like I only do it because I have to. He touches me and it like, why bother let's just get it over with. Recently I had an experience with a woman, which is crazy and bizarre for me to say, but it did happen and it made me realize that I my sense of value and self worth is missing from our sex life, and also how important it was. We are rebounding in all other ways. And I'm committed, but I don't know how we can reconnect in the bed room. A typical night is me coming home from work, getting the baby ready for bed, maybe we have dinner. Then I come up and watch TV until I fall asleep while he plays video games. Then I wake up to him fingering me at 2am and I instantly get pissed at him for waking me up (sleep is so precious to me). I want us to be OK, but sex with my husband makes me feel horrible about myself.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Crickets said:


> Ok... so my husband and I have been together since our teens and we are now in our 30s. We both came from poverty, and I was excited and looking forward to growing as adults and creating a future for ourselves. The years have progressed and as the "future" approached, I could see that I was the only one growing and creating a life. Being married to him has not been a partnership. He's a great guy, but frankly, I have worked so hard to create a comfortable life for us, to start our family, and encouragement (read nagging if you want) from me for him to do the same created a huge point of contention between us. Add to that the curveball of his poor health (due to his weight) which has meant that life was upended with me trying to manage his care. So all of this is background to understand why I can barely stand to be touched by him. We started getting counseling, but I have to say that I don't know if he understands how far gone I was/am. *I did cheat on him. Which he has no idea, and he can't.* But it was something I had to do. From it I felt a sense of vindication, liberation, and that I had regained some control over my own life. But I have lost my connection with him. Our sex life is so monotonous and obligatory that I feel like a pathetic piece of **** after. It's like I only do it because I have to. He touches me and it like, why bother let's just get it over with. Recently I had an experience with a woman, which is crazy and bizarre for me to say, but it did happen and it made me realize that I my sense of value and self worth is missing from our sex life, and also how important it was. We are rebounding in all other ways. And I'm committed, but I don't know how we can reconnect in the bed room. A typical night is me coming home from work, getting the baby ready for bed, maybe we have dinner. Then I come up and watch TV until I fall asleep while he plays video games. Then I wake up to him fingering me at 2am and I instantly get pissed at him for waking me up (sleep is so precious to me). I want us to be OK, but sex with my husband makes me feel horrible about myself.


What do you think you would do if he found out that you've cheated?

And just so we're clear, why is it that you're feeling "cheap"?


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

If he found out... I can't even imagine. You would see it on the news. Devastated is not a strong enough word. And cheap because pretending, by going through the motions, basically putting on a show, but really just waiting for it to be over. It's dishonest and demeaning.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Crickets said:


> If he found out... I can't even imagine. You would see it on the news. Devastated is not a strong enough word. And cheap because pretending, by going through the motions, basically putting on a show, but really just waiting for it to be over. It's dishonest and demeaning.


So why not end your marriage?

Are you still cheating? If not, are you planning/hoping to cheat again?

And just so we're clear, I'd asked what YOU would do if your husband were to discover that you'd cheated -- not what he'd do.


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

Oh sorry I misread. I don't know what I would do. He's generally very unambitious. I was be shocked if he had the gumption to do something like that. I don't want to cheat any more. I'm friends with the guy and have no desire to sleep with him again. And I want to make my marriage work. We had something at one point, I want to get that back.


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

Sorry... what I would do if he found out I cheated. And still I have no idea. I don't think it matters.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Why do you want to stay married to this man? 

You feel cheap because you're offering your body with zero emotional connection. If you really really want your marriage to work, and I personally think you should divorce, than you're going to have to be honest with him.

His weight turns you off.
His lack of drive tuns you off.
His lack of awareness in helping around the house turns you off.
His game playing turns you off.
Being his caregiver turns you off.
You do not want him touching you.

And then there is that pesky affair....

Do you honestly think your marriage can come back from all of that with out him doing a complete metamorphosis? Secondly, is it really fair to him to make demands that he change himself so completely when you're lying to him?

Forget about sex. Generally your body follows your heart and since you are disgusted by him, your body is also disgusted by him.

Put this marriage out of its misery. Either complete honesty or walk away.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Crickets said:


> Oh sorry I misread. I don't know what I would do. He's generally very unambitious. I was be shocked if he had the gumption to do something like that. I don't want to cheat any more. I'm friends with the guy and have no desire to sleep with him again. And I want to make my marriage work. We had something at one point, I want to get that back.


Sooo... you've cheated w/ two different people? A man and a woman?

Either way, your husband isn't likely to change, at least not w/o some sort of motivation or prompting. So tell him how far gone you are.

Tell him the truth.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Either complete honesty or walk away.


Agreed.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Agreed.


Well holy crap, think I'll buy a lottery ticket!


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your description of your emotions about the cheating and your emotions towards him now are a classic example of the fog. It always the WS the freedom to do horrific things to the BS. It is a must read for new posters that are BS and refuse to acknowledge what their BS are and will do. Gramon, and jasoncanpbell are two recent examples of what a WS cab do. Read them, see if you like the WS. 

You are trapped in a relationship that is dead. You feel cheap when your husband touches you, not when you cheat. You need to switch around. Divorce him quickly. 

You will not find any support here for cheating. But you would find support to end a bad marriage. What do you want?


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

I don't want/need support for cheating. I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Crickets said:


> I don't want/need support for cheating. I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.


Start with honesty.

Anything else would be manipulation.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't think her complaints about her H are a revisionist version. She's not in any fog. She doesn't want to continue to be unfaithful. She is trying to wade through all the muddled emotional stuff. There is much more than an affair going on here. And this isn't CWI.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Crickets said:


> I don't want/need support for cheating. I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.


You spend time with him. You remain intimate with him. Not just physically intimate but emotionally intimate. Emotional intimacy can only be achieved through honesty. If you're unhappy about something, you have to be honest. If you're happy about something, again honesty. Hiding your emotions is blocking emotional intimacy.

Practical advice would be, fake it till you feel it. 

You still haven't answered why you want this marriage to work.


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

Our relationship was built on friendship. He's deeply in love with me, and would easily trade his soul for me. But we started off as children and I Think that now we are adults, there is more to it than either of us had the opportunity to learn. We've come too far in life together to give up. I have to find a way to let go of my resentment, but I think it has to be replaced with something better. How can I be honest when I don't really know what I need from him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crickets said:


> I don't want/need support for cheating. I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.


Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs".

Read them, do the work they say to do yourself.

Then talk to him and tell him that you want to fix some things in your marriage and ask him to read the books with you. Then both of you do the work. 

And both of you make the changes and live them every day.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Crickets said:


> I don't want/need support for cheating. I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.


Your cheating has harmed your connection with your husband at least as much, and probably more, than anything he has done.

You need counseling together and all your issues need placed on the table, including your unfaithfulness.

The people you were unfaithful with need to be ejected from your lives immediately.

If you both get all your shyt out on the table, you will at least know what you have to work with to improve your marriage.

He sounds like a chump and you know what you are.

Not a good combination.

If you want to improve and have a chance at a healthy marriage, get yourselves into counseling and get everything out in the open.

Is your husband friends with either of the people you have cheated with?

You want to get rid of them fast! Your husband needs to know you are a cheater but keeping the idiots around that think sleeping with a married woman is funny is heaping insult on top of injury.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Crickets said:


> Our relationship was built on friendship. He's deeply in love with me, and would easily trade his soul for me. But we started off as children and I Think that now we are adults, there is more to it than either of us had the opportunity to learn. We've come too far in life together to give up. I have to find a way to let go of my resentment, but I think it has to be replaced with something better. How can I be honest when I don't really know what I need from him?



This is the inevitable problem when children get married. 

Step one, stop killing the marriage.
I know a thing or two about resentment. You won't be able to work toward reconciliation until you've communicated your resentments, he has heard your resentments, he stops doing the things you resent and he somehow acknowledges his behavior. That's why the book Love Busters is important to read, so that you both understand that love killing behavior must stop before love can really grow.
http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=pdf-lb-ch1

Step two, start building love.
Your friendship with this man made you fall in love with him but friendship alone isn't enough to sustain love. To sustain and build love you both have to meet each other's emotional needs. The need for affection, for fun together, for conversation, for respect... We fall in love because that person is meeting our deepest emotional needs. That is why you need to read this book, 5 languages of love. Language Profile | The 5 Love Languages®

Here is a PDF that talks about emotional needs, print out two and each of you should complete the questionnaire in as much detail as you can.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/enq.pdf

The thing you should know is that those affairs will prevent you from fully reconciling with your husband if those people are still in your life. So if you absolutely want to reconcile you must get those people out of your life for good. 

There is bitter debate about whether you should tell your spouse about an affair. Most people here at TAM insist that you must confess. I don't. If you can carry the burden of this guilt and never ever fess up, because even addressing it 20 years from now will affect him as if the affair was just yesterday, then keep it to yourself. But you must get those people out of your life.

You mentioned one of those people was a woman. I guess you're wondering if you might be bisexual. Who knows? The question you have to answer is, does it matter? Can you find peace and contentment loving only your husband for the rest of your life? From what you've disclosed, I can see why the love of another woman might be appealing. You've been a caregiver and it has burned you out. Women tend to be better at nurturing than men and this woman probably made you feel nurtured. Can your husband make you feel nurtured? Men can do it, if they know how and sometimes they have to learn how. Can your husband learn this?

This is a good place for support but your affair will be a sticking point since many members here have had spouses who cheated on them, leaving them angry and bitter. You will face some harsh judgement from them. This may drive you away, though I hope you stay. Wading through everything going on in your marriage will take time and posting here can really help.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Maybe you're trying to hang onto something that isn't working because it's all you know. He doesn't sound like a particularly good partner and you have dealt with it poorly. 

This doesn't sound worth saving to me. I cut out my bf of 25:years a few years ago and while I know it's not the same thing I too struggled with the come too far thing. I'm much happier without her. 

But if you're bent on holding onto this i agree with anon, you've got to put all your cards on the table. And think about this: is he really deeply in love with or deeply dependent on you? You sound like his mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Your cheating has harmed your connection with your husband at least as much, and probably more, than anything he has done.
> 
> You need counseling together and all your issues need placed on the table, including your unfaithfulness.
> 
> ...



Him playing video games and waking her up at 2 am tells me this ain't fog talking. Nobody is going to be turned on by a guy like this. .... and one whose weight she has to manage on top of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe you're trying to hang onto something that isn't working because it's all you know.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This!


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## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Me and my wife have also been together since we were teenagers and are now in our 30s. She has an aversion to 99% of sexual things. We have been in counseling now for a month and trying to hash out the root of the issues. Whether it's the way she is, or if it's something that can change. I've only recently really told her that this is something that I NEED, and it's becoming a deal breaker. Throughout the years she's also been upset about things that I do or don't do. But she's never came out and sincerely said 'Listen , this is something I absolutely NEED from you to make this work, etc' So I asked her if she'd think about it for a day or two and come up with what she truly expects from a husband / marriage. Brought it up yesterday after our counseling session so haven't seen the list yet. But thought it was a good idea to ask her to think about it. So we can really put it all on the table. It'd be good to know what is really NEEDED from one another. No false expectations. Then we can provide to each other. ... Or we can not. Either way 

Maybe instead of 'encouraging , nagging etc ' You need to sit him down and really say, 'Listen this is what I NEED and expect from my husband, etc , and if needs aren't met..........'


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Either complete honesty or walk away.





Crickets said:


> I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.


If the foundation of a relationship is trust and communication, you are actively degrading BOTH by not being honest with your husband about how you feel and hiding the fact that you cheated. 

It is like you are saying that you have made a bed out of a ground up brier patch, but you can't sleep well and you are ask what lotion will help numb your skin or make it thicker. 

Just so you know, the fear of not wanting to hurt someone can do way more harm than just being honest and telling the truth of how everything is. It is like living in a house with a bad foundation, you are going to have to tear it down and rebuild everything with your husband or someone else if you want to see any improvement. Otherwise you are just sitting on a ticking time bomb. It is better to get out in front of it and try and manage the problem rather than sitting quiet and waiting for when it will all blow up in your face. 

Just be brave and be honest! Then you either work through it and rebuild or part ways. 

If you already are planning on parting ways, then obviously a lawyer would tell you to keep your mouth shut and begin quietly planning.

Good luck, 
Badsanta


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Him playing video games and waking her up at 2 am tells me this ain't fog talking. Nobody is going to be turned on by a guy like this. .... and one whose weight she has to manage on top of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think she is in a fog at all. I think she is a cheater and needs to own it and deal effectively with it.

Her husband needs a hell of a lot of work as well.

She is a cheater and he is an unattractive slob.

They need to get this crap out in the open and work to fix the problems.

OP wants to focus on his issues to fix her marriage without working on her own which are at least as big as his.

Unless you believe fvcking other people is a minor marital issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anon. Not bringing an affair into the light to be dealt with is not addressing it fully and fixing the damage done.

Hiding an affair is at least as damaging as ignoring or not addressing any other problems in marriage.

How do you expect OPs husband to lay his cards on the table, become vulnerable to scrutiny, his poor behaviors and bad habits, so that he can work to improve on his side of the marriage but tell OP to never acknowledge her major problem and just act like it never happened?

Very lopsided advice to have the husband work on his damaging behavior but tell the cheating wife to hide her issues.

I guess because it is harder to lie and hide being fat than it is to fvck other people and get away with it, it must be ok.

So your advice is to hide anything that your spouse doesn't know is a problem and act like it isn't there?

Or is it only ok to hide if you like to fvck other people to solve your problems?

Make no mistake. OP feels fully justified and entitled to have fvcked others. She goes so far as to claim it was necessary and good to cheat.

She won't even admit her actions have caused massive damage to an already hurting marriage.

If she doesn't own her part in this failing marriage, it will continue to fail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Crickets said:


> I don't want/need support for cheating. I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.


Excellent question!

People are human. They make mistakes. Some learn from their mistakes and don't repeat them. Others repeat there mistakes a limited number of times. Still others who have no self control just keep on doing what they want and delude themselves with excuses.

I will assume you are a person who has self control and as such should take your cheating secret to your grave with you and never tell ANYONE, including posting it on-line.

Now as to re-establishing emotional connection. Marriage counseling is a great first step and a lot cheaper than hiring two divorce attorneys. If sex and sexuality is your problem then it is better to get a sex therapist and they will have the skills to attack the sexual problems within your marriage. My feeling is you and your H could benefit from both types of help.

As to your H's weight and health conditions. Does he want to regain his health? Seriously, some people say that but aren't willing to put down the fork, go for gentle walks or swims, or stop eating junk food. Once upon I time I was morbidly obese. I have lost over 55 pounds and have a BMI that is just slightly over-weight. It took 5 years, going from walking to jogging to running and from short 10 minutes on a treadmill to multi-hour half marathons. It took radically changing what I eat, even when I go out to dinner or in a buffet line. 

If your H really would like to loose weight and regain his health you know him best. You can help motivate him. Divide up his desired weight loss into small increments, say 5 pounds or 10 pounds. Then figure out ways to reward him for attaining his goals. They should not involve food or eating. If he would enjoy attending a sporting event, going fishing, going to a car race, going out to a movie, getting a night out at a casino, you taking him to a strip club or out shopping for him, some form of sex with you that you can handle but aren't thrilled with. Then help motivate him. Praise his success and make sure he knows how close he is to the next reward.

Now the emotional part. Sexual connection may come after emotional connection. May I suggest MW Davis book the Sex Starved Marriage. She really helped me understand the Sex Starved Marriage I was in was caused by both my wife and myself. Whether you know it or not. You are probably part of the problem. You need to work on fixing yourself and that means getting a life and becoming the most fascinating and improved wife you can be for your husband. That does not mean that your husband doesn't have problems (he does) that need to be fixed.

What also worked for me was understanding Chapmans 5 languages of Love, so I could provide my wife with the love she needed in HER languages of love, which were totally different than mine. Then I learned how to give her unconditional love without expecting anything in return. She noticed the changes and started to open up to me.

Good luck. You can't force your husband to change. You can however change yourself and serve as a roll model to your husband that change is possible. You can help support and encourage change your husband initiates. That is not changing him, that is supporting him. You too can make changes in your life that will result in regaining emotional closeness, if you get lucky and it is also what your H wants.

Good luck to you.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Anon. Not bringing an affair into the light to be dealt with is not addressing it fully and fixing the damage done.
> 
> Hiding an affair is at least as damaging as ignoring or not addressing any other problems in marriage.
> 
> ...


I disagree and agree.

If she realizes she made a mistake, doesn't intend to do it again, knows that she has failed her husband, then that may be enough.

In Catholic confession, you reviewed your past actions, you strive to do better, you confessed your sins not in public but to God and his representative, you showed sorrow for your sin or true contrition, you do Penance, you ask for God's help to live a better life, and you go back to living. Hopefully you are forgiven and move away from your sinful behavior. There is nothing in there about telling your spouse what you did or the person you harmed.

I do agree with you that she does need to "own" that she was/is a cheater. Not only does she need to own it, she needs to not kid herself about it and to take sincere and positive steps to change her behavior.

Ripping apart her husband's heart by confessing something out fo the blue doesn't sound like a win-win to me. If he finds out, or questions her, that is another story.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@ConanHub,

We can go round and round about disclosing and we simply will not agree. I am aware of all the arguments and reasons why you feel she should disclose and I still do not agree. 

Her part in this failing marriage is that instead of taking her loss of attraction to and love for her husband to him so they could work it out, she had an affair. In having her affair she came to see that the bond she has with her husband is a good enough foundation on which to try to reconcile.

She was disengaged and disconnected from her husband because of his behavior. It is his behavior combined with her lack of communicating her dislike that left her open and vulnerable to having an affair. Fix his behavior, fix her communication skills and they can move forward.

Is it fair to ask her husband to undergo such enormous personal change on the chance that she can regain her love and respect for him without disclosing her affairs? I personally think it is unfair to him. But if her goal is to save this marriage no matter what, disclosing her affair would be counter productive. 

Whether or not their relationship survives, her husband would be better off attempting to correct his behavior. If the affair is disclosed, what are the chances of him correcting his behavior? I think slim to none since he will be wrecked by her infidelity. If she discloses she has less chance of him ever correcting the behavior that lead to her having an affair. If she doesn't disclose, he has a stronger chance of correcting thus a stronger chance of salvaging the marriage.

Providing her infidelity is absolutely never going to ever happen again, she should not disclose.

I think it's completely unreasonable for any spouse to allow themselves to become bloated, lazy, unambitious slobs and expect their partner to remain attracted to them.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Is it fair to ask her husband to undergo such enormous personal change on the chance that she can regain her love and respect for him without disclosing her affairs? I personally think it is unfair to him. But if her goal is to save this marriage no matter what, disclosing her affair would be counter productive.


Is it a noble goal to save a marriage "no matter what", if the "no matter what" means you need to deceive and manipulate the other person in order to save it? It may be "counter productive" to tell the truth if your goal is to save a marriage "no matter what", but it's plenty productive if your goal is instead to either have a healthy relationship based on trust, or to allow the person you supposedly love to make an informed decision on his own happiness.

What's more, if a person is turned off by feeling like the caretaker of another who isn't acting like an 'adult', then isn't making their emotional choices for them just furthering that dynamic? If the desired goal is to get away from that, and aim for a marriage of two adult partners instead, he needs to be making his own decisions.. and this is a big one.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> @ConanHub,
> 
> We can go round and round about disclosing and we simply will not agree. I am aware of all the arguments and reasons why you feel she should disclose and I still do not agree.
> 
> ...


We don't have an argument about a lazy slob of a spouse but I have not seen your good scenario outcome that you are posting about hiding an affair.

I have seen the opposite of what you are suggesting in practice.

More often than not, when full truth is laid out, people are surprisingly resilient and able to cope. People that hide any major damaging behavior from their spouse never fully deal with it or address what led to the behavior.

It is bad advice for her and their marriage. She is still treating him like a little boy and manipulating him for her desired outcome. That is something she wants to overcome. She wants him to start acting like a man while still manipulating him like a child.

She can't have both. 

Either she starts learning to treat him like a man and work with him on their marriage or keep treating him like a helpless dough boy and shut up about the video games and 2 a.m. fingering.

She isn't willing to invest in his manhood so she should not be surprised that she is getting a boy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Really, I haven't seen much resiliency from BH's here at all. I've seen a few but the majority don't bounce back well.

I haven't seen where she treats him like a child? I must have missed that part somewhere. I haven't seen where she manipulates him either.

I'm not excusing her affair either. Frankly I don't think this marriage has any shot of fully recovering and for that reason her husband is better off not knowing so he can have a modicum of confidence in bettering himself for his next wife.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> I disagree and agree.
> 
> If she realizes she made a mistake, doesn't intend to do it again, knows that she has failed her husband, then that may be enough.
> 
> ...


Still bad relationship advice. So are OP and her husband Catholics?

I have never once seen that hiding any damaging behavior has ever resulted in growth and health.
Would you say that lying to your spouse, much less anyone close to you, is a healthy trait?

Start writing marriage books on how successful your marriage is because you lie about huge issues to your wife everyday of her life.

Because that is the "good" advice you are giving here.

You are telling OP to lie to her husband for her entire life.

I would be interested to see how you came to this conclusion.

Personal experience? Can you illustrate with your own marriage how lying to your wife daily, forever has made you a better person, husband? How it has improved your marriage and improved intimacy and trust with your wife?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

What so many people seem to overlook in the whole "Why should I confess my infidelity to my spouse?" discussion is this -- you HAVE to assume that, at some point, your betrayed spouse WILL discover the affair on his or her own. You just have to. Additionally, if and when that happens, it will be sooo much more difficult to contain or mitigate the damage than it would've been if the WS had just confessed of his or her own volition.

Maybe one of OP's APs will decide that he or she wants more of her, at which point she's back in an affair and eventually gets busted. Or maybe she has the fortitude to say "No, I don't want to cheat anymore...", at which point the AP gets pissed and discloses the affair to her BH.

Or maybe she leaves some damning piece of evidence laying around and her husband discovers it.

Or maybe someone that knows about the affair decides to tell her husband all about it.

Or maybe any one of about a thousand different scenarios in which he finds out about it either on his own or from someone other than her comes to pass and BAM, OP is suddenly scrambling to keep her entire life from going to Hell in a handbasket.

Bottom line -- for as long as she fails or outright refuses to confess to the affairs, she's denying her husband the right to make his own choices w/ respect to his future in general, and specifically regarding whether or not he wants to continue in marriage w/ her.

Oh and also? Everything that OP's BH has done (in her eyes) to poison their marriage is out in the open, and they're both fully aware of it, even if he downplays it, minimizes it, or even _outwardly_ denies it.

Can't say the same for her. She's dealing w/ him in a very uneven-handed manner.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> I disagree and agree.
> 
> If she realizes she made a mistake, doesn't intend to do it again, knows that she has failed her husband, then that may be enough.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but this is both stupid and naive. Confessing to God is one thing, but _no one *marries* God._

If I strike my wife, she'll be aware of it. She'll have felt it. There will be a mark, a bruise, or whatever, and others will know as well. Not so w/ affairs.

A WS is accountable to his or her BS for an affair, and failure to confess to it is little more than an attempt at escaping accountability for it. And w/o accountability, there can be no atonement.

Want to change? That's awesome. Start by accepting accountability for your actions.

And you do that by confessing your transgressions to those to whom you are rightfully held accountable for them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Really, I haven't seen much resiliency from BH's here at all. I've seen a few but the majority don't bounce back well.
> 
> I haven't seen where she treats him like a child? I must have missed that part somewhere. I haven't seen where she manipulates him either.
> 
> I'm not excusing her affair either. Frankly I don't think this marriage has any shot of fully recovering and for that reason her husband is better off not knowing so he can have a modicum of confidence in bettering himself for his next wife.


She is still treating him like a child because she won't trust him with the truth. She is manipulating him, or trying, by hiding her catastrophic marriage failure and wanting to focus on his shortcomings so as to get what she wants.

She really can't have it both ways.

Spouses that hide affairs are manipulators. They never fully own what they did and use lies to manipulate the outcome they want with their spouse.

I have seen a far healthier response in real life to full disclosure. TAM, as we are constantly reminded, is not representative of most people.

The folks I deal with have never posted on a marriage site and probably never will. They are in some of the healthiest marriages I have ever witnessed.

You advised OP to read Dr. Harley's advice. I will agree with you that she should follow it as a wayward and give full disclosure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm not excusing her affair either. Frankly I don't think this marriage has any shot of fully recovering and for that reason her husband is better off not knowing so he can have a modicum of confidence in bettering himself for his next wife.


I disagree that not knowing about the affair will fill him with more confidence in the event of a split. If presented with a scenario where I was suddenly divorced by the person I loved because of who I am, versus a scenario where I was suddenly divorced by the person I loved who fell into infidelity... I know which one makes me feel better about myself.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Gus, your post number 34 makes a lot of sense to me. But I still feel that OP's marriage has a better chance at reconciling without disclosure. 

Honestly, there are few adults who actually function in a healthy way. More marriages are based on a merging of dysfunction than there are marriages based on a merging of healthy behavior.

The healthiest people I encounter are those who are grateful members of AA. She, OP, will decide if she wants her marriage to be a merging of healthy behavior or a merging of dysfunction.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> ...You are telling OP to lie to her husband for her entire life.
> 
> I would be interested to see how you came to this conclusion.
> 
> Personal experience? Can you illustrate with your own marriage how lying to your wife daily....


Let's just say we don't agree. Examples....

"Honey, you don't look fat in those pants."

"Honey, I can't imagine marrying any other woman in the world."

Now really, I have no idea of the religion of the couple. I was just by analogy trying to say that confession does not always involve publicly admitting what you have done to the person you wronged.

Is it morally better to to confess in public all one's sins. Yes, if you are a martyr. Yes, if you are among very forgiving people.

I am old enough to know that people are human, people make mistakes, and some people are a little too judgmental. I also know that people can change and that they can atone for their mistakes. 

I do think that *"GusPolinski"* does raise a good point about confessing to the wronged party being better, if they eventually find out. 

I would point out that even doctors, when they are trained to deliver really bad news (like you have an uncurable terminal illness), don't just blurt it out, they work the people into the bad news and tell them when they think they are ready to hear the bad news. Is that lying?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Sorry, but this is both stupid and naive. Confessing to God is one thing, but _no one *marries* God._.......
> 
> 
> A WS is accountable to his or her BS for an affair, and failure to confess to it is little more than an attempt at escaping accountability for it. And w/o accountability, there can be no atonement.
> ...


From someone else more learned on the subject than myself, a nun said;



> No, nuns are not actually married to Jesus. It's a form of figurative speech to say nuns are the spouses of Christ.
> 
> In reality, as members of the Church, the Bride of Christ, we are all called to be "spouses" of Christ. Now since religious have taken vows not to marry a human spouse so that they may focus on Lord, they are an external witness to that unity with Christ to which we are all called. Their celibacy enables them to "thinketh on the things of the Lord" (1 Cor. 7:34) and is an encouragement and example to us non-religious of the detachment we should have from creatures and the attachment of love we should have for Christ.
> 
> ...


I have a question for you. If they actually have performed introspection and found their actions lacking and they are contrite, penitent and change, is that not taking responsibility for their own action and not just trying to sweep it away? 

I think that taking responsibility for one's actions involves examining them, and making changes where necessary. Public confession is not always part of the change process. 

You do make a good point about if the partner ever found out, it would have been better to confess earlier than later. 

Still, the OP wants to know how to emotionally reconnect to try to save her marriage. The first and most important advice is to stop the affair(s) and work on reconnecting emotionally.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> Let's just say we don't agree. Examples....
> 
> "Honey, you don't look fat in those pants."
> 
> ...


You are certainly making poor comparisons.

Also. Cheating is always a bad "choice". Not an accident, not a tragedy, not a mistake.

If you advocate lying about devastating behavior as good advice, I would like to know how you have employed lying about something as destructive as infidelity in your own marriage in a healthy manner.

I'm directly asking you how lying to your wife for your entire life about a major, destructive choice you have made concerning her directly as well as your marriage, has made you a better husband and made your marriage stronger as well as bringing greater intimacy and trust between you two.

I am consistently amazed at people who give advice they have never and will never follow themselves.

Have you followed your own advice that you are giving here in your own marriage or are you theorizing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Let's just say we don't agree. Examples....
> 
> "Honey, you don't look fat in those pants."
> 
> ...


I'll say it again...

Without accountability there can be no atonement.

Want to change? That's great, but start w/ the truth. Anything else is manipulation.

Additionally, a betrayed spouse cannot forgive his or her spouse's infidelity if he or she has not been made explicitly aware of it. So another way to look at this is that, in failing to confess her affairs to her husband, the OP is denying her husband the opportunity to learn and grow from the experience.



Young at Heart said:


> I do think that *"GusPolinski"* does raise a good point about confessing to the wronged party being better, if they eventually find out.


Hmm. Never seen anyone put my name (or my handle, I suppose) in quotes before.

Weird.



Young at Heart said:


> I would point out that even doctors, when they are trained to deliver really bad news (like you have an uncurable terminal illness), don't just blurt it out, they work the people into the bad news and tell them when they think they are ready to hear the bad news. Is that lying?


I can't tell if you're just trying to rationalize your previous post at this point or what, but it's worth noting that, whether said doc a) simply walks into the exam room and blurts out, "Well, you have terminal cancer. Sorry." or b) sits the patient down and slowly explains that he or she has cancer, _the doc is *STILL* telling the patient that he or she has cancer._

Oh, and another thing? The doctor probably didn't give the patient cancer. IOW, the doc likely isn't responsible for the patient's cancer.

Still, there is accountability there, but it's accountability of a more ethical, legal, and professional nature (i.e. making an informed diagnosis, the due diligence in arriving at such diagnosis, informing said patient of the diagnosis, and then following up w/ either treatment options or a referral to an oncologist or other medical professionals as appropriate) than a personal nature.

And here's another angle that we've yet to explore...

In choosing to engage in affairs w/ others, the OP has possibly put her husband's health at risk by exposing him to STDs.

He has a right to know this so that he can be tested and, if positive, pursue treatment for whatever she may have passed along to him.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

It does not look to me like your heart is in this marriage. But if you want to work on it, you would have to sit down with him and list all the things that create resentments, including his weight problems. And go from there - He either will join you in fixing marriage, or continue playing video games. That would be your answer.

I am with AP on keeping quiet on affair. Just do not do it again. If you feel like doing it again, it means you should go for divorce, and stop the sharade.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> From someone else more learned on the subject than myself, a nun said;
> 
> I have a question for you. If they actually have performed introspection and found their actions lacking and they are contrite, penitent and change, is that not taking responsibility for their own action and not just trying to sweep it away?


Yes, but let's be honest -- this rarely happens, and this is exactly where accountability comes into play. And I'll say it yet again...

Without accountability there can be no atonement.



Young at Heart said:


> I think that taking responsibility for one's actions involves examining them, and making changes where necessary. Public confession is not always part of the change process.


Who's talking about _public_ confession? I'm not saying that she should go out into the street and confess her affairs to the entire neighborhood. She should, however, confess them to her husband.



Young at Heart said:


> You do make a good point about if the partner ever found out, it would have been better to confess earlier than later.
> 
> Still, the OP wants to know how to emotionally reconnect to try to save her marriage. The first and most important advice is to stop the affair(s) and work on reconnecting emotionally.


And tell the truth.

Look, she did these things. She's owned that. Now she needs to confess to her husband so that he can make an _informed_ decision w/ respect to the rest of his life.

And if he can't handle it then they can divorce.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> It does not look to me like your heart is in this marriage. But if you want to work on it, you would have to sit down with him and list all the things that create resentments, including his weight problems. And go from there - He either will join you in fixing marriage, or continue playing video games. That would be your answer.
> 
> *I am with AP on keeping quiet on affair.* Just do not do it again. If you feel like doing it again, it means you should go for divorce, and stop the sharade.


Wanda, respectfully, I feel that you should come forward w/ a bit of background information w/ respect to WHY.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> It does not look to me like your heart is in this marriage. But if you want to work on it, you would have to sit down with him and list all the things that create resentments, including his weight problems. And go from there - He either will join you in fixing marriage, or continue playing video games. That would be your answer.
> 
> I am with AP on keeping quiet on affair. Just do not do it again. If you feel like doing it again, it means you should go for divorce, and stop the sharade.


Really? She gets him to face all his shortcomings while she sits on the fact that she cheated, is still in contact with her AP and they haven't been checked for STDs?

Again. You are advising lying to your spouse for your entire life about one of the most destructive behaviors to marriage known.

Cheating causes way more problems than being overweight. I know many happily married overweight couples.

I know zero happily married cheating couples.

Have you actually employed the advice you are giving?

If so, did it establish greater trust and intimacy with your husband?

At the very least, I practice what I preach. I don't give advice I wouldn't take.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

Anon Pink said:


> Gus, your post number 34 makes a lot of sense to me. But I still feel that OP's marriage has a better chance at reconciling without disclosure.
> 
> Honestly, there are few adults who actually function in a healthy way. More marriages are based on a merging of dysfunction than there are marriages based on a merging of healthy behavior.
> 
> The healthiest people I encounter are those who are grateful members of AA. She, OP, will decide if she wants her marriage to be a merging of healthy behavior or a merging of dysfunction.


If there is no way for him to find out, I wouldn't say a word either....provided she never does it again


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OP. I'm bowing out of this thread. Marriagebuilders is a great site with fantastic material that can help your marriage if your husband wants to work on it.

I do not believe it will work however, because you are not on board with it.

You are still in a very bad place. You feel your affair was justified and even helpful.

As long as you, yes you, are adamant about your position concerning your cheating, your marriage will absolutely continue to fail and it will certainly be on your head.

Best wishes but you have at least as much fessing up and work to do as your husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

D1C said:


> If there is no way for him to find out, I wouldn't say a word either....provided she never does it again


People keep coming back to this, so I'll point out what should be obvious by now...

SHE'S ALREADY DONE IT AGAIN.

Two different affairs, people.


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

LostinNE said:


> Maybe instead of 'encouraging , nagging etc ' You need to sit him down and really say, 'Listen this is what I NEED and expect from my husband, etc , and if needs aren't met..........'


I don't think we KNOW what we need because we never had it. I might have a pain in my stomach but I don't know what's causing it, I just know how it feels. It's problematic that people like me and your wife expect our spouses to figure this out automatically. That's why I'm here, my husband is a good guy, and he's sincere but neither of us have any idea what we're doing. Therapy is good, but it's really hard to find the right person.


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> Crickets said:
> 
> 
> > I don't want/need support for cheating. I want to know how I can reestablish the emotional connection with my husband.
> ...


This is great advice. Ty. We learn a lot through our experiences, and mine is limited. But I want to learn. He was my first, and while I get that overwhelmingly the majority disagree with me, our issues run a lot deeper than sex, and my hope is that that will come back to us when we figure out the emotional part. I'll definitely check out that book. Ty.


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## Crickets (Sep 2, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> I am with AP on keeping quiet on affair. Just do not do it again. If you feel like doing it again, it means you should go for divorce, and stop the sharade.


Thanks so much. That was never a question. I want to WANT to be with him. Thats it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@Crickets, 

Have you been to any of those links? The one about emotional needs will help you identify what you need from your husband and it will help him identify what he needs from you.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Crickets said:


> Thanks so much. That was never a question. I want to WANT to be with him. Thats it.


You WANT TO WANT - it is not the same as want. You would like to feel the attraction and love again, but you do not. You would like to work on the marriage, but your heart is not in it. You would like to because alternative is too scary. 

But as long as you just "want to want", the chance of the new affair will only grow. Because this marriage is not meeting your emotional needs and has not been in a while.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Really? She gets him to face all his shortcomings while she sits on the fact that she cheated, is still in contact with her AP and they haven't been checked for STDs?
> 
> Again. You are advising lying to your spouse for your entire life about one of the most destructive behaviors to marriage known.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, yes, I did stray once. I am done wiht that part. I am in a way in similar situation as OP, where I "want to want" to be in this marriage. We will see if that will work. 
I used to believe what you are saying, and it applies to the marriage of two people who make each other happy. I do not count anymore on full intimacy and happiness in my marriage. I am hoping for contentment and relatively good life for my children.
That's all.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> What so many people seem to overlook in the whole "Why should I confess my infidelity to my spouse?" discussion is this -- you HAVE to assume that, at some point, your betrayed spouse WILL discover the affair on his or her own. You just have to. Additionally, if and when that happens, it will be sooo much more difficult to contain or mitigate the damage than it would've been if the WS had just confessed of his or her own volition.


I don't think that you HAVE to assume anything. Stats are thrown around on TAM all the time that the vast majority of affairs are NEVER discovered. I have no reason to believe that's not true. My W would never have known about my infidelity unless I had not told her about it 10 yrs after the fact. Like Wanda, I was done with it as well. Fog or no, it wasn't what I was looking for.

If her H is none the wiser now, by confessing at this point, the OP would effectively be throwing a nuke into the middle of the M. I agree with Wanda and AP, it will not give her H motivation to improve his life/behavior or clean up his side of the street for the benefit of the marriage. And without that, I don't see her being able to rekindle any feelings for her H. They are at an all-time low at this point. 

Alternatively I see confession right now as nothing more than the quick route to divorce. An "exit affair" as it were.

Despite being a 2-time cheater, if the OP is COMMITTED to not cheating any more and getting to work on the exercises in 5LL, His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters, then it is possible with her H's help to create an environment where they can both get their needs met. On the other hand if the OP really enjoyed her romps on the side and has any thoughts on continuing that sort of behavior in the future then it really would be best for her to just file for D, get out and make the D as easy on her H as possible.

After the D she can go **** anyone she wants. She can go find her "validation" wherever she sees fit. Nobody will care and nobody gets hurt.


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## Joe75 (Oct 12, 2013)

Hi Crickets

In addition to this thread, I have also read your “A wife’s advice to all husbands” thread. I am responding here as I believe you should reconsidered telling your husband about your affairs. The following is offered for your consideration.

First of all I would suggest you read B1’s thread – ‘Wife's affair, how to move forward?’ – here on TAM. Eventually, his wife, EI, joined in. Just reading their posts and skimming the rest - it is a compelling account of these two trying to save their marriage (spoiler alert, it has a happy ending). 

One take away is that although E1 was absolutely responsible for her affair, B1 had a more significantly responsibility for the state of their marriage prior to the start of E1’s affair. It took the shock of D-day, in fact there were two D-days, which galvanized B1 to take action to fix his issues. IMHO, if he had not own his part in putting their marriage at risk, pre-affair, this marriage would have failed.

Your husband has issues. It may be obvious to you that he should be doing more to address them. Noting the marriage counseling, he is aware that the marriage has problems. However, being unaware of your affairs, I suspect from his perspective that the fact you are still in the marriage and still ‘absolutely’ his wife - ‘things could be worst’. In addition to being the right thing to do in your situation, the knowledge of the affairs may be the ‘2x4 to the forehead’ he needs to make him realize how close he is losing what he cherishes. It is not unusual to read about husbands who critically examine themselves and set on a course of self-improvement after the shock of learning of their spouse’s waywardness. Your husband may surprise you.

Second of all, I would suggest telling your husband about the affairs is for your own sake. Twice, you have sought emotional and physical solace in others as a reaction to the state of your marriage. The danger to yourself is the prospect that this developing pattern of behaviour will continue to be your ‘go to place’.

I remember an infidelity story concerning a wayward wife. She resolved to end her affair; however, she found that she couldn’t stop on her own. So she confessed to her husband in part to seek his help in ending her affair. Rough times followed D-day, but, eventually there was a 'happy ending'. Once again, your husband may surprise you.

Crickets, the above is not suggest that your husband has a shared responsibility for your affairs – that is yours alone. But he is not blameless for the state of the marriage, pre-affairs. And if you confess, there is no guarantee the above will result. However, by denying him knowledge of your affairs, denies him knowledge of the true state of this marriage. And further, with these affairs still in the shadows, you are denying yourself a genuine examination on why you went down this path. The connecting consequence is that your goal of re-establishing the emotional connection with your husband will likely remain elusive. 

With truth comes clarity. And with truth and clarity, the resulting actions are more likely be the right ones.

Respectively

Joe75


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Some men aren't that bright but he does need to know what he's up against. Make sure he knows you're serious.

Tell him what you want. Give him an timeline and then stick to it.

I'd give him a weekly/monthly report on where he's at.

This is your life too.

See a lawyer early and get your act together.

Best of Luck to you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Tron said:


> I don't think that you HAVE to assume anything. Stats are thrown around on TAM all the time that the vast majority of affairs are NEVER discovered. I have no reason to believe that's not true. My W would never have known about my infidelity unless I had not told her about it 10 yrs after the fact. Like Wanda, I was done with it as well. Fog or no, it wasn't what I was looking for.
> 
> If her H is none the wiser now, by confessing at this point, the OP would effectively be throwing a nuke into the middle of the M. I agree with Wanda and AP, it will not give her H motivation to improve his life/behavior or clean up his side of the street for the benefit of the marriage. And without that, I don't see her being able to rekindle any feelings for her H. They are at an all-time low at this point.
> 
> ...


You've kind of missed the point, but that's fine.


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## nick1776 (Sep 11, 2015)

What is your goal? For it is hard to hit a target if you can't define what it is. Do not pick a vague target like universal peace, love and understanding. Pick something you can see and verify. What precisely do you want from your husband, and what precisely will you do when he complies?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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