# Learn from a Doormat



## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

I've created a mess for myself, due to my ability to avoid conflicts. To everyone that is reading this, learn from my mistakes. Don’t live in denial & self hate. I guess since I have allowed the below to happen to me, I suppose one could say I have been living a life of seld hatred or lack of self worth.

Ive posted on here before my entire story before.....

The story kind of starts back in February of 2012. We were having trouble conceiving a baby & had gone for fertility treatments. We were told that my wife was not responding to the treatments & that we would not have a child of our own. My wife was devastated to say the least. I had a hard time opening up about it & I basically shut down. But I knew we had options such as donor eggs. My wife though didnt want to do that. She felt that she would be resentful of having another person’s baby instead of her own. But I explained that it least my dna would be part of the child, but she would not accept that. She brought up adoption, but I wanted to try the donor egg route first.

She went on a downward spiral of feeling awful & self loathing since she couldnt have her own child. She drank more & more. She was belligerent to me quite often. I tried to be cheerful to her, but It was an awful time. On top of all that, we had layoffs at work & my friend that helped me get my job was laid off. So to say the least, I felt awful. 

Then I caught my wife in Aug 2012 in an FB/texting EA with an OM. I had a feeling something was wrong & I decided to snoop. I found out that they were texting all during the day, while I was at work, while she was at work, while I was away visiting family, etc, etc. By the time I caught her, they had progressed to sexting, sending videos, mutual masterbation via skype, etc.

The OM lives 900 miles away. It had been going on for about 2-3 months when I found out. Anyway, I find out...I confront...... she says it’s my fault, etc, etc. I move out of the home & take all my stuff with me. (1st mistake. I moved out for 6 weeks)
I expose to her family (her mother & brother) the next day. I send them copies of the text messages, etc. WW is furious that I exposed. Her mother makes a 180 & basically defends her daughters actions. Her brother says his sister is morally wrong. I think he & their mother argue about how he thinks it is wrong.

My WW & I talk about divorce, etc via texting, never in person. Her family (mother & father) pledge their support in her divorce against me. I don't think her father was told the whole entire story. I think he would have been mortified. They (WW & her mother) probably didnt want to tell him b/c they thought he would have a heart attack.

During the time I am out of the home for 6 weeks, WW sets up a few dating site profiles. (I know this b/c I am still able to snoop.) One is a dating site for larger women (my WW is a bbw). She uploads photos of herself, some are just face portraits while 2 or 3 are her in lingerie (which are selfies). Several men contact her & she texts a few of them thru the dating sites. A few end up sexting as well with her. She even sent selfies of her privates to some men on these dating sites. This is all at the same time she is still carrying on her relationship with the OM.

During this time she is talking on the phone now with OM rather than just texts. I see the phone bills...she talks & texts OM while she is at work, at home till 4 am, etc. She does this at the same time she is texting with these other men from the dating site. My WW at the time worked as an ICU nurse so how she got away with it while taking care of patients, I dont know. Remember, I am still out of the house.

During this time I am out of the house, she & I communicate via email & text. Mainly it is about how to take care of the house mortgage that is in both our names. She states that she will only help pay for the mortgage for 6 months until sold, if not sold by then, it is my problem. This kind of shows me what she thinks of me.

Anyway, 6 weeks go by from me leaving the house. After 6 weeks of living outside the home, she contacted me & asked for me to move back home. She said that it didnt mean that we were getting back together. But that she was having a hard time paying the mortgage...... that she would live in one bedroom & I live in another. Until we figure out how to take care of the house. So, I did move back in on Oct 1. 

Anyway long story short....I kept snooping. I found out that she ended the relationship with the original OM the day I moved back home (or at least I thought). But she instead of cancelling her dating site profile, she would go online often to read the comments left to her by the men from these sites. She wouldn’t respond back, just read their comments to her. I did find out that she did stay in contact with the original OM though. She was talking to him thru a text feature that was part of online word game installed on her phone. She also talked to him on the phone one or two times while I was at work. One phone call was about 90 minutes & I think she initiated the call. 

After being back in the home for about 2 months or so, we found out that she needed a hysterectomy surgery. She planned it for the day after Christmas due to the only available time slots. Well, she wanted to go on a cruise before having this surgery. So we did...against my family & friends wishes. They still felt that she was untrustworthy & that I just needed to move on. Well, during the cruise she got extremely drunk one night & said a few things that she later couldn’t remember. She said stuff like she didnt know if we could ever work thru it all, etc, etc.

We get back from the cruise & she had the surgery the day after Christmas. At this time I had been home for 3 months (moved back in on Oct 1). I found out that while she was in the recovery room in pain...that she was still looking at the dating site comments. She was also texting the original OM thru a word game app. She was telling the OM that she made it thru surgery ok. After I found out, this hurt me a lot. I was the one there supporting her thru her surgery, yet she was still deceptive enough to contact the OM thru a word game app on her phone & tell him she was ok.

Last year on Easter of 2013 (6-7 months after Dday) while shopping, we ran into her old personal fitness trainer. We both trained with this personal trainer way back before Dday..back in 2006 for several months. She started going back to train with him about a year or so before DDay. But she quit going to him just before Dday. Anyway, when I saw the guy I shook his hand but I noticed my wife & the guy were acting odd. Well we kept shopping & she blurted out with a terrified look on her face that the trainer guy had kissed her one time while she was working out. She was doing a shoulder press & he was helping her. When she lifted the weight to the top, he reached around & kissed her.

Then she explained that is happened 3 separate times. The last time, he tried to pull her into the restroom with him, and she resisted. This was at his place of business & his wife was there running the tanning salon. This was just before DDay. Actually she ended her membership on DDay. 

Anyway, sorry for the long story. 
DDay was mid August 2012, so its been about a year & a half since then. As you can tell lots of things happened since then & I learned a lot about my wife...some things not so nice. 
We did briefly talk about what happened around the time of her surgery. She explained that when she was told that she couldn’t have her own children, she fell into a depression. She felt that she was keeping me from having my own children. She also felt that I was not there for her emotionally. That I should be able to find someone else to have a family with. This may be true in how she felt, I can just imagine the pain & sadness. BUT why in the world get involved with someone else, dating sites, etc.

Since her surgery in 2012 we have been going thru life on auto-pilot. We haven’t had any major fights or really talked about what she did. We did go see an adoption counselor about the process of getting a child. I was reluctant, but I didnt want to start a fight with her, so I went anyway.
She does not know that I am aware of what she did during the time I was out of the house (dating sites, etc). She also does not know that I am aware of her talking to OM right after her surgery. All she knows that I am aware of the EA with the OM & the kissing (non-mutual according to her) with the fitness instructor.

Over this past weekend I visited my family who live about 80 miles away. As I have stated, my WW has not had contact with my family since before DDay. All she knows is that they are aware of the EA & thats it. I have told them about everything else too.

I came home on Sunday evening & I noticed that she had some papers on the dining room table. They were adoption forms we got from the counselor that we visited together about a year ago. She had filled some of them out. I assume she will ask me to fill out some information.

I feel sad most of the time b/c I think she has swept this all under the rug & expects to go on with life. I have been going to see an individual counselor since March 2013. I guess I have been looking for assurance that I am not crazy for feeling sad . The counselor has stated that my WW is still not remorseful since she has not been totally honest with me about what all she did. The counselor also stated that my WW must be just fine with the fact that she hasnt talked to my family in two years.

This is where I guess the moral of the story is. I have put off confronting her for so long that it has gotten to this point. She wants to adopt a child & I know it is not in my best interest to do that. Ive asked her many times, but my WW has not been to see a counselor at all. I really don’t feel she is really remorseful....that given the chance she would blame this all on me.

My world is about to go nuclear with a confrontation, just because I wouldn’t face it & stand up to my WW...and being a doormat. Maybe I should have filed for divorce after DDay. Maybe I should have filed divorce right after I found out she was still in contact with OM during her surgery.

Part of me feels bad for waiting this long to confront this. The other part of me feels as if I have given her enough support.....she has had a year to come clean & be totally remorseful but has chosen not to do so.

People, don’t do what I have done. Be strong ..... do what is morally right & best for you. Don't be a doormat....Ive been one for a long time.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

FarmerJ,

The true value of your testimonial will be better realized by others, when you finally decide to follow your own advice. Just because you've been a door mat, doesn't mean you have to continue to be one.

Do what you need to do, then come back and tell us how your own advice worked for *you*; how you got to a better place.

What are you waiting for?


----------



## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

Sorry for everything you've gone through. Don't feel bad, a lot of us loved our wives so much that we messed up early on in trying to save the relationship.

I'm hoping you're not thinking about going ahead with an adoption. I feel that would be a huge mistake. Like you said, she's not remorseful for what she's done.

Only you know what's right for you though, but I think you do know what needs to be done. The hardest part is just doing it.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

nickgtg said:


> I'm hoping you're not thinking about going ahead with an adoption.


:iagree:

Don't compound your problems.


----------



## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Farmer_J said:


> Last year on Easter of 2013 (6-7 months after Dday) while shopping, we ran into her old personal fitness trainer. We both trained with this personal trainer way back before Dday..back in 2006 for several months. She started going back to train with him about a year or so before DDay. But she quit going to him just before Dday. Anyway, when I saw the guy I shook his hand but I noticed my wife & the guy were acting odd. Well we kept shopping & she blurted out with a terrified look on her face that the trainer guy had kissed her one time while she was working out. She was doing a shoulder press & he was helping her. When she lifted the weight to the top, he reached around & kissed her.
> 
> Then she explained that is happened 3 separate times. The last time, he tried to pull her into the restroom with him, and she resisted. This was at his place of business & his wife was there running the tanning salon. This was just before DDay. Actually she ended her membership on DDay.


I am not trying to be hurtful with what I am about to tell you, I am trying to be direct and realistic.

It seems that even if you realize that you were a doormat, you have not changed and you are still a doormat and naive, do you really think that it was just 3 kisses all her contact with this guy?

if she never accepted his advances why she put with the first move a returned to do the same in two ocassions?, if she really didn't wanted nothing to do with him then she would had informed you inmediatly and quitted after the first attemp, most likely she had sex with him at least once and is when she quit for guilt or shame, obviously if she was the one being harrased and she would have refused when he pulled her to the restroom she would have informed you inmediatly, no reason to keep quiet about it if you are the victim. Most likely, yes he pulled her, yes they had sex and after the encounter and when the sexual tension was out her system she felt shame and guilt and she quit (in the best escenario, in the worst she had many encounters and she quit when his wife found about it or when she realized the stupidity of the affair)
,* we have had many many cases here when the wife always confess "just kisses" the less harming in hope that that will be enough to the husband to stop snooping and thinking that that would decrese their sense of guilt.*

she is selfish and impose her willing over yours, you are right if the kid at least can have the DNA of one of the both of you why not doing it, she can also have the experience of bearing the child, but instead as her DNA is not going to be in the child she don't want yours neither to be in the kid, and she is pressuring you to adopt when you obviously are not convinced of wanting to do it (which is understable, if you have the choice of having a child with your DNA and the reason you are not doing it is because she feel capricious anyone in your place would feel the same).

OP, my advice, your marriage is not in a place where you can adopt a child, you have many doubts (which is normal giving this story) and unresolved problems that the two of you have to address before invoving an innocent third party in your lives, first, find the whole truth about the the past, use the polygraph method to force her to reveal you the truth, after all this affairs problems are uncovered (even if she was saying 100% the truth which I doubt) you still have to deal with honesty the matter of adopting a child, Will you be really happy and satisfied adopting a child knowing that you can have one with your DNA delivery by your wife?, and the only reason she does not want it this way is her selfishness for the fact that the kid will have just your DNA.

adoption should be an option for a solid marriage where both parts are excited and commited to the idea, which is not the case here.


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Sorry that you are going thru this rotten experience.
Please confront before going thru with the adoption.

If she is still not remorseful, I hope you decide to end the play and give her the divorce papers.

Good luck.


----------



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I've been overweight, I've been underweight, I've been sick, I had three miscarriages, I've lost jobs, I've moved............

But.........I have never cheated on anyone or used my bad luck or insecurities to cheat. 

Yes, your wife needs counseling and no, don't adopt a child. This is not a healthy relationship right now.


----------



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Also, it's good you recognize you have been complacent (not a doormat).

Most of us become complacent in relationships, sometimes it's just easier than what we think the fallout will be.

I think in your case, the timing is right.


----------



## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

I appreciate everones comments and words of encouragement.
Yes i have been complacent for a long time. 

I will not go along w adoption right now. Part of my apprehension is that she has not had any couseling at all. I think she believes that everything is ok now and she doesn't need it. My wife has a hard time dealing w stress. She has changed jobs 4 times at the hospital where she works. She would fall apart emotionally at each job, which in her mind meant transferring to a different job.

I will require her to get couselling if we are to pursue adoption....if at all.
She will have to tell the whole truth. I think she feels that she can trick a couselor by lying by omittance. Shes done this before.

After being married for about 1-1\2 years, we went to a marriage counselor. It was for her to deal w her weight issues......and according to her, for me to deal w my social anxiety issue (which i think is bs).
Anyway, it was during this time that she contacted 2 men she knew before me. One was a classmate and the other she knew from a dating site (bbw).
She was emailing them, talking on the phone.....while i was away visiting family or on her way back from work each day. This was when text messaging wasnt as easy or popular like it is now....pre smart phones (2007).
Anywy i found out about it and confronted during a couselling session. I was proud of myself for sticking up for me.

Anyway i guess she and i just aren't cut from the same cloth. I dont see us being together the rest of our lives. Im sad to think that. But I don't want to be alone. Im 43 now, and the thought of being by myself scares me a little. I dont feel as though I'd be able to find anyone new.
Hence my ability to be a doormat 24/7....


----------



## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, every day you have the option of choosing your path in life. Do not let inertia keep you on a path of misery and do not bring a child into this environment.

FWIW, every day you chose to stay on your current path is another day of your life wasted. Take action!


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

To adopt a child right now is going to be a nightmare and I'm glad you realize that.

Look. It's time you sit her down and lay your cards on the table about her behavior. Fat lot of good it does if she tries lying to a MC. She needs to come clean with you and you need to show her what you got and let her face it. she bought it, she owns it and the sad part is your the one wearing her dirty laundry around your neck. 

Stop wasting time and put it out there. Once she knows that you know about her activities then she's going to understand the reason why your not going for the adoption. She needs to hear it from you and you need to tell her. The longer you wait, the harder it will be.


----------



## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

I think you're right. This sounds just like what my counselor would say.
Actually I‘ll see my counselor tomorrow. She has been helping me see that I'm not unreasonable for feeling sad and upset about what happened.

What has compounded my issues of complacency and fear is that my first wife left me for another guy. When i got married for a second time to my new wife, she knew of my past, and i thought she would never make me go thru a similar experience again.


----------



## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

Update:
I realize how much my WW is willing to go in order to fulfill her wants.

Last night when my WW wasnt looking, I looked at the adoption forms. She had filled them out over the weekend while I was away visiting my family.

In the adoption process, one of the requirements is to get a reference from family and/or friends.

I noticed that my wife had put her mom as the sole reference & marked 'not-applicable' across the others. It looks as though she is not wanting my family to jeopardize anything for her.

My family has already said that if they are asked, that they would tell the whole story about what happened with my wife's EA & the aftermath that followed.

I went to see my counselor today & told her about what I had found on the forms. She was kind of taken aback at all. She asked me hows does it make you feel...

I said that it makes me feel sad & angry.....sad & angry that my wife would be willing to ignore an ugly chapter in our life in order to get a child. An ugly chapter, that if the adoption people knew about, would probably extinguish our chances of adopting a child.
And on top of that, she will have her mom to go along with it.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Run

One of the few times here that it sounds like the BS should have stayed out of the house away from this WW.

I wish you a lot of luck here


----------



## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

Your best position in this marriage is being out of it.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Whether you stay or go, this is not an environment to bring a child into right now. If she is not willing to get the help she needs and come clean, then she doesn't need to have another person to possibly corrupt and hurt in her pursuit of motherhood.

She needs to grow up and take responsibility for her actions as the things she has sent and posted are out there for many to discover, including this child when they get older.


----------



## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Farmer_J said:


> I appreciate everones comments and words of encouragement.
> Yes i have been complacent for a long time.
> 
> I will not go along w adoption right now. Part of my apprehension is that she has not had any couseling at all. I think she believes that everything is ok now and she doesn't need it. My wife has a hard time dealing w stress. She has changed jobs 4 times at the hospital where she works. She would fall apart emotionally at each job, which in her mind meant transferring to a different job.
> ...


For God's sake, NO for YOUR sake, Farmer, get out of this poisonous marriage. You don't have children to worry about, so this should be an easy choice for you. Let the selfish b**ch go on and pursue these other guys and see what that gets her. Then you'll be able to sit back and have the last laugh as she pours out her heart to you and begs for "just one more chance." :smthumbup:


----------



## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

Infertility can be quite a blow to anyone. It makes you face issues of mortality, self-worth, even punishment from God.

When I found out I couldn't have children, well, I don't remember exactly what I thought. Probably felt I was destroying my wife's dream of being a mom.

But when we looked at the first option (using frozen, donated sperm) I came to realize that those little kids would be 1/2 my wife's DNA, and I would love them to death! I even pictured them with long curly hair like she has. It brought a smile to my face.

However, it never worked. Even after 10 months. My wife's eggs looked fine--so it was a mystery. Almost all people got pregnant by the 3rd time.

More time passed, and we were both ready for the next step: Adoption. Lots of paperwork. Lots of interviews with social worker. The wait took years. It is a very trying time.

Today we have 2 great children.

But when our marriage recently faced some serious issues, I felt horrible that these kids might have to face divorce, ugliness, and disruption. When they get older, they're already going to have to face the stigma & questions of their birth parents---were they abandoned? why? is there something wrong with them? are the birth parents dead?

I believe going through a divorce would just cement these issues even worse. 

Personally, I think you've been through too much hell and witnessed too much betrayal from your wife to continue the relationship. But that is something you'll have to work out. But as far as the adoption process goes -- you seem to already know the answer to that. 

Heheh, it's true. You already see the confrontation coming. You KNOW that you can't continue on that tract, yet she's eventually going to wonder why not eventually. Well. It's actually a good thing life is sending this ultimatum/line in the sand to you. Sometimes it's hard for us to get off the fence. Stay strong. It only hurts for a second.

By the way, it's unlikely your wife will be able to cheat her way out of the paperwork, like you said she is doing (using only her mom as a reference). This is just the first step. You will have to get a local social worker to do the next steps, and in those interviews, they will be asking questions about your life & marriage. They will notice if there is something wrong with the dynamics. Our own social worker has admitted that a few times one of the spouses (who didn't actually want to adopt) used that opportunity to say what was really on their mind. In fact, if you find yourself being a complete doormat, & chicken out during the paperwork stage, you can always use those interviews as a way to sabotage the adoption process.

Adoption is a difficult challenge. The waiting & rejection & travel (if international) is tough. It's hard to go through, and you'll need your spouses' strength to get through it. And if you're already having problems--it's unlikely to work. Then when the kids come home, they have additional needs! Depending on their age, background, addictions, ethnicity, etc... they are going to need to enter a loving family, just to have a chance. And these kids are going to look up to you 2 and emulate your actions. Right now that means they'd learn how to be a cheater and a doormat.

If I was you, I'd run away from this toxic woman. It's SOOOOO easy without kids. Then I'd work on yourself (NMMNG & other books) and eventually find (or be found by) a loving, caring person to share your life with. Then create a family... either through adoption or the old fashioned way.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Powerful post Farmer.

WL


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Farmer_J said:


> Anyway i guess she and i just aren't cut from the same cloth. I dont see us being together the rest of our lives. Im sad to think that. But I don't want to be alone. Im 43 now, and the thought of being by myself scares me a little. I dont feel as though I'd be able to find anyone new.
> Hence my ability to be a doormat 24/7....


I just turned 44 today and let me tell you its EASIER now for me to get women than it was when I was 20. 

Don't ever let the fear of being alone or thinking you won't find someone else dictate your decisions, its irrational. Of course you'd find someone else BUT you need to be self reliant first, never be desperate. The day you stop needing a woman in your life is the day they line up at your door.


----------



## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

I appreciate the kind words of hope.

I do hope there is a future life of happiness for me.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Farmer_J said:


> I appreciate the kind words of hope.
> 
> I do hope there is a future life of happiness for me.


Only if you choose one. Hope has nothing to do with it.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Farmer_J said:


> *I will not go along w adoption right now. *
> ....
> 
> Anyway i guess she and i just aren't cut from the same cloth. I dont see us being together the rest of our lives. Im sad to think that. But I don't want to be alone. Im 43 now, and the thought of being by myself scares me a little. I dont feel as though I'd be able to find anyone new.
> Hence my ability to be a doormat 24/7....


Not ability, you are the ultimate doormat, have you learned from this, no.

You just are not allowed to have responsibilities with this woman ever, NO KIDS!

You should have taken the first opportunity to get rid of her. Pronto.

But then you still have yourself as your problem. Untill you have fixed yourself in this area, and got to some self confidence and self respect, you should not be in any relation, woman or child or anyone else actually.

No More Mr. Nice Guy should be your bible from now on. Read every day in it and practice every day. 

Grow strong!


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Farmer_J said:


> *I've created a mess for myself, due to my ability to avoid conflicts.* To everyone that is reading this, learn from my mistakes. Don’t live in denial & self hate. * I guess since I have allowed the below to happen to me, I suppose one could say I have been living a life of seld hatred or lack of self worth* . . .
> 
> Since her surgery in 2012 we have been going thru life on auto-pilot. We haven’t had any major fights or really talked about what she did. We did go see an adoption counselor about the process of getting a child. * I was reluctant, but I didnt want to start a fight with her, so I went anyway.*
> *She does not know that I am aware of what she did during the time I was out of the house (dating sites, etc). She also does not know that I am aware of her talking to OM right after her surgery.* All she knows that I am aware of the EA with the OM & the kissing (non-mutual according to her) with the fitness instructor . . .
> ...





Farmer_J said:


> I appreciate the kind words of hope.
> 
> *I do hope there is a future life of happiness for me.*


Dear Farmer_J,

Please download and read this book (https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf) . . . now!

You are suffering from what is called the "nice guy" syndrome. It is fixable but it will take work on your part. The first step is to understand why you are a being doormat (to use your word), then to start changing the behavior that gets you into situations in which you feel powerless to push back and finally to give you the self-respect and confidence that will enable to do what is best for you as opposed to deferring to the needs of others.

There is a future life of happiness for you, but only if you fix yourself.

Good luck.


----------



## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

The ongoing profile & checking messages thing bugs me. I guess part of it is that it is such a foreign concept to me. It's like an ongoing, never ending betrayal.

Then it dawned on me. Farmer_J is Plan B.
The 900-mile OM and the PT were her ticket out of there, but they didn't pan out. I also agree with others that she put out for PT until she got booted by OM's wife, or he got what he wanted and sent her packing. 

The online profiles & checking messages make sense now. She's hoping someone finds interest in her and she can work on a new Plan A.


----------

