# Boundaries with Members of the Opposite Sex



## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

These questions came from someone who reads my blog. I thought I would post my thoughts to her questions on this forum.

_Throughout my marriage there has been talk between my husband and I about appropriate boundaries in a marriage. Brian, I would love your opinion on the following questions:_

_Is it natural for a man to be attracted to other women and to look at them, scroll through facebook pictures of old girlfriends, and watch semi-inappropriate things on tv?_

Being attracted to another person is not a bad thing. It simply means that your hormones are working properly. Dwelling and fantasizing about this attraction is different and completely inappropriate. When a husband and wife are joined in marriage they make commitments to each other. Being faithful (not just phsyically, but also mentally and emotionally) is one of those commitments. Looking up old girlfriends is inappropriate. Watching semi-inappropriate things in movies or TV opens up the door for fatasizing about other women. There is a saying that says "You can't prevent a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop it from making a nest in your hair."

_My husband spends more time talking with other women than men. Is this okay?_

Some people get along better with members of the opposite sex than members of their own sex. However, husbands and wives need to be exceptionally careful when interacting with members of the opposite sex. Even if the husband or wife has no intentions of getting involved with any of the people he/she is talking to, they cannot control the thoughts and feelings of others. Other people may get the wrong idea or intention. I would suggest that husbands and wives should only talk to members of the opposite sex when their spouse is present or when there is a large group of both men and women. Being alone with a member of the opposite sex should be avoided.

_My husband doesn't have very many friends. How can I help him with this?_

There are many men who don't have very many guy friends. This is not necessarily a problem. Women often connect through social interaction. Men connect through doing things together. Men's connections can sometimes be formed through the workplace as he works together with co-wokers. A man's connection is also formed through his relationship with his wife. Often these connections are sufficient for his emotional needs to be met.

_Is it okay for another woman to have a pet name for your husband if it just all fun and games? _

NO! Though you or your husband may not be able to control this, you can approach the person and let them know you are uncomfortable with their behaviors. If all else fails, you can choose whether or not you associate with this person. 

_My husband wants me to dress modestly yet I often see him staring another woman who are dressed immodestly. How am I supposed to compete with that?_

Is your husband aware that he does this? Is he aware of how it makes you feel? If no, you should probably calmly tell him. Staring at another woman (or man for the wives) is inappropriate. A married man may have the initial visual contact of a woman who is dressed immodestly, but he should work on diverting his eyes and controling his thoughts after that initial contact. Maybe you can help him practice diverting his eyes. Praise him when he does divert his eyes. Gently remind him when he doesn't.

I hope these questions are able to help create discussions between you and your spouse. Talk to your husband or wife about your feelings regarding boundaries. Read this blog together. Maintaining good boundaries with other people is important if you want your marriage to last.

Originally posted at Improve My Marriage: Boundaries (after marriage) with Members of the Opposite Sex


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

A few follow up questions of my own:



Riverside MFT said:


> These questions came from someone who reads my blog. I thought I would post my thoughts to her questions on this forum.
> 
> _Throughout my marriage there has been talk between my husband and I about appropriate boundaries in a marriage. Brian, I would love your opinion on the following questions:_
> 
> ...


What, exactly, are "semi-inappropriate things" that are watched on tv?



> _Is it okay for another woman to have a pet name for your husband if it just all fun and games? _
> 
> NO! Though you or your husband may not be able to control this, you can approach the person and let them know you are uncomfortable with their behaviors. If all else fails, you can choose whether or not you associate with this person.


Do you see a distinction between a "pet name" and a nickname? If so, what would that distinction be? Also, would you take regional and/or generational customs into account (such as the use of "darlin'" in the American south)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> There are many men who don't have very many guy friends. This is not necessarily a problem. Women often connect through social interaction. M*en connect through doing things together. Men's connections can sometimes be formed through the workplace as he works together with co-wokers. A man's connection is also formed through his relationship with his wife. Often these connections are sufficient for his emotional needs to be met.*


This is very much me. I have some long term friends. All of them are colleagues I have befriended over the years. We can go months without interaction and yet pick up conversations like we were talking all week. We meet for lunch or a few drinks on occasion. Basically to catch up.

My current work environment consists of colleagues spread across the US. We do travel often enough and the company culture involves a lot of off hours bonding. That is plenty of guy time for me.

I am not into doing things on a weekly basis these days with guy friends. I have had my years where I played softball and was into cars more than I am now and so on. I do interact on occasion on facebook and email. 

My focus is on family, work and what I can do to improve myself and my marriage. Wow that sounds boring. But I am more at peace right now about things than at any other time in my life.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I never thought about it before, but I have a close male friend whom I adore and adores me. We have never dated but have been friends for 6 years (longer than I've known DH).

He calls me Kiddo and Babe and Dearie...but it comes from a different place than sexual. There are no weird vibes there.

But now I think maybe my husband is uncomfortable with this. I never thought about it because I never had ill intentions.

Hm...something to ponder. Thank you.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> These questions came from someone who reads my blog. I thought I would post my thoughts to her questions on this forum.
> 
> _Throughout my marriage there has been talk between my husband and I about appropriate boundaries in a marriage. Brian, I would love your opinion on the following questions:_
> 
> ...


Brian,

I really like the answers you gave to this lady! They are very well balanced and to the point. 

At the beginning of our marriage, I used to tell my husband not to joke too much with his female co-workers. I told him that I trusted him for not having any ideas in his mind, but others may misinterpret it. They might think that you like them and then they approach you shamelessly. I don't want my husband to be involved in unnecessary trouble. 

We also have an agreement not to send emails to opposite sex. It means we don't allow each other to have opposite sex friends. I attract men easily, but I maintain a very formal and open relationship with them in the public. On forums, I don't talk to men privately! My husband is the same. He only associates with men! 

Things on TV or computers don't bother me, I am pretty open with it! 

If he looks at other women on the street randomly, it doesn't bother me. I think some women make it into a big deal, it is really not! We can't control their eyes and ears. Admiring beauties on the street is not much different from admiring a piece of art! 

Men usually hang around men who have the same kind of hobbies. If women want their men to have more friends, then let them have some hobbies. But I think women want their husbands to have couple friends who they can associate together. It is difficult! Two men can be good friends, but their women may not have much to feel close to! Two women can sit together and talk for a long time, but their husbands may not share the same kind of interests.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Grayson said:


> Do you see a distinction between a "pet name" and a nickname? If so, what would that distinction be? Also, would you take regional and/or generational customs into account (such as the use of "darlin'" in the American south)?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would think so. I think you have to look at the purpose behind the nickname/pet name. If it is even borderline flirtatious, than I would say that it is inappropriate.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> I would think so. I think you have to look at the purpose behind the nickname/pet name. If it is even borderline flirtatious, than I would say that it is inappropriate.


Thanks.

That brings up another follow-up question, then:

What is/who determines what is "even borderline flirtatious?"


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Obviously I just throw words out there and leave the interpretting up to you. Maybe I should run for some political office 

I think most people are aware when someone is flirting with them or when they are just being friendly. I think the inappropriate flirting could be determined by how many other people do they talk to in the same way. For example if someone calls you "cutie pie" but also calls the mailman, the water delivery guy, and the boss "cutie pie" you probably have nothing to worry about. However, if you are the only person she calls "cutie pie" in the office and she does it with a wink everytime she says it, that would be inappropriate for a married man.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Hmmm...this would seem to not take different personality types into account. Some people have individual, playful nicknames for friends and co-workers that they encounter regularly, with no ulterior motives behind them.

And, I'm still curious as to what is "semi-inappropriate to watch." Late night Cinemax? True Blood? Glee? How I Met Your Mother? Something else entirely?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Grayson said:


> And, I'm still curious as to what is "semi-inappropriate to watch." Late night Cinemax? True Blood? Glee? How I Met Your Mother? Something else entirely?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In regards to this discussion, I think if the show arouses you and your next desire is to look at porn, than I would say the show is inapropriate.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> In regards to this discussion, I think if the show arouses you and your next desire is to look at porn, than I would say the show is inapropriate.


I can't say that I see the connection here. I can, for instance, say, "Deborah Ann Woll can bite my neck any day," or, "Heather Morris makes for a hotter 'Britney Spears' than Britney Spears does," or, "Alyson Hannigan is just as gorgeous as she was on Buffy" yet not have my "next desire" to be to look at porn. Please elaborate on the implied automatic progression from "arousal" by entertainment media to porn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Riverside MFT said:


> In regards to this discussion, I think if the show arouses you and your next desire is to look at porn, than I would say the show is inapropriate.


But some of us LIKE that, it is a form of spicing, I DO realize you are coming from a Christian persceptive, believe me, been there , done that, didn't do a darn thing for my mental outlook in the bedroom. Hindered ME pathetically, it is MY story and I feel strongly about it. 

Back in the day when I looked at sex almost like something that had to be hidden away, only 1 position was OK before God , under the covers, dirtyish in many of its forms -one thing that ALWAYS got me aroused was a HOT R rated movie with a little skin.... I didn't run off to look at internet Porn, I ran to my husband, I pulled him close. He was most happy I enjoyed such things! 

I very much dislike when people want to judge other's marraiges on these things. It is not all that black & white, it may be in a christian world view as you have been taught. But not all experiences are the same. One can hinder as well as the other can hinder -depending on the people involved. 

These are some of the 1st videos I bought after I did away with my religious up tight thinking on sex -wanting to FINALLLY explore more together, to enhance our marraige

Amazon.com: Better Sex Video Series: Sexplorations - Volumes 1, 2, 3 DVDs + FREE Music CD "Journeys" DVD/music CD Set: Dr. Linda Banner, Ph.D., Dr. Eli Coleman, Robin Millhausen, Dr. Eusebio Rubio-Aurioles, MD, Dr. Mark Schoen: Movies & TV


It spiced up our sex life very very nicely, gave us wonderful ideas- it was so much fun trying them. Darn wish I would have had this on our Wedding night -but I would have never laid my eyes on such a thing back then, that would have been blasphamas. Hearing how OPENLY these sex therapists talk about the benefit of these positions & our sexuality , how exploring can enhance your marraige. It was just "WOW - fantastic".  Christians would never allow such a program. To this, I say - "a shame". 

These things have been "a Blessing" for this couple.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Grayson said:


> Hmmm...this would seem to not take different personality types into account. Some people have individual, playful nicknames for friends and co-workers that they encounter regularly, with no ulterior motives behind them.
> 
> And, I'm still curious as to what is "semi-inappropriate to watch." Late night Cinemax? True Blood? Glee? How I Met Your Mother? Something else entirely?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Real Housewives of TAM. It's on the the TAint ( T&A International ) channel.

Sorry, I am being bad. 

Actually my wife is a sucker for movies like Body Heat, China Moon, Chinatown, No way out, Bull Durham, Big Trouble in Little China and so on. I guess she likes China. She does like the Porkys Trilogy.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Grayson said:


> I can't say that I see the connection here. I can, for instance, say, "Deborah Ann Woll can bite my neck any day," or, "Heather Morris makes for a hotter 'Britney Spears' than Britney Spears does," or, "Alyson Hannigan is just as gorgeous as she was on Buffy" yet not have my "next desire" to be to look at porn. Please elaborate on the implied automatic progression from "arousal" by entertainment media to porn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you are missing the point. The boundary is something that you an your spouse create. You define what is appropriate and what is not according to your morals and contextual relationships. This is not a one size fits all definition.

For instance Greenpearl and her husband don't allow opposite sex friends but my wife and I do. What is important is that boundaries are agreed upon and repected by both spouses. The point is to set boundaries that enable the marriage to be protected. You need to do what is needed to protect the marriage and only the spouses themselves know what weaknesses they have that need to be protected. So what is inappropriate for Greenpearl may be appropriate for us because we each have different weaknesses and strengths. Likewise I find open marriages inappropriate for me so I won't agree to those type of boundaries (and neither does my wife) but others find that appropriate.

The final consideration is that you and your spouse may decide something is appropriate and then discover that that one of you is heading down the path towards infidelity even in circumstances you both have agreed are fine. So one needs to account for a circuit breaker to stop it. For my and my wife we have a veto power over who we are friends with and what we do. It is not often used but my wife has exercised it and I respected it because I choose her over anyone else. That card was thrown before I had a real relationship with them which made it easier for me. One of my weaknesses is that I don't see flitatatios behavior.

The point is to put the marriage first but allow freedom to still be the person you are without jeopardizing your marriage.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

meson said:


> I think you are missing the point. The boundary is something that you an your spouse create. You define what is appropriate and what is not according to your morals and contextual relationships. This is not a one size fits all definition.
> 
> For instance Greenpearl and her husband don't allow opposite sex friends but my wife and I do. What is important is that boundaries are agreed upon and repected by both spouses. The point is to set boundaries that enable the marriage to be protected. You need to do what is needed to protect the marriage and only the spouses themselves know what weaknesses they have that need to be protected. So what is inappropriate for Greenpearl may be appropriate for us because we each have different weaknesses and strengths. Likewise I find open marriages inappropriate for me so I won't agree to those type of boundaries (and neither does my wife) but others find that appropriate.
> 
> ...


100% agree! :iagree:

You are right, every couple is different! What is OK for us may not be OK for others. What is OK for others may not be OK for us! We have different weaknesses. 

I have a friend, she and her husband agreed: when she is shopping, for items over $100, she has to talk to him first! She is not happy with it, but she respects her husband's wish. Her husband's parents are missionaries, so we know that the way he grew up wasn't wealthy; her father works for Canadian government, they have good money! She tends to spend more, so her husband has to be strict with her, it is good for their finance. My husband won't let me buy things impulsively, I can't buy things I see and love at the first sight, he says I tend to regret later, and I totally agree with him, so I respect him for helping me control my impulsive buying habit. He says if I still want it the next day, I can buy it! Very often I don't go back to the store the next day! 

For choosing friends, both of us have agreed that we would rather have no friends than bad association. We both excise it. So when he is out with his friends, I know they are having good time talking and eating good food. I know they are not drinking heavily or taking drugs; I know they are not flirting with other girls. I don't panic when he tells me he is going out with his friends. We know we are adults, but good association protects our marriages, bad association can have bad influence. 

Porn doesn't bother me, but we agreed that we have to watch it together. Actually we watch very little porn. 

I think a couple has to have boundaries and both of them have to respect each other's wish. But the boundaries have to be reasonable, can't be too controlling. You can't live in a suffocating marriage either. 

In China, we have this movie named Journey to the West. In order to protect his master, the monkey usually made a big circle for his master to stay in while he had to go somewhere to get help. Inside the circle, his master was safe, other predators couldn't get in because of the magic. But the master could get out of the circle if he chose to do it. We all knew if he chose to walk out of the circle, he would be in danger. 

Life is the same. If we stay in our safe circles, we are well protected.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

meson & greenpearl, those are very fair and level-headed responses that I can appreciate. In comparison, it appeared that a one-size-fits-all response *was *initially being given...that, by responding to a question about "semi-inappropriate things" without elaborating in any way on what that means (either to the individual originally asking about them or to Riverside himself), individual tastes and judgments were being dismissed (as it also appears is being done regarding "pet names"/nicknames). There was also the leap of logic implied that the inevitable, immediate, direct result of "arousal" via media is to jump up and race to porn.

Now, it's no secret that I have no problem with porn, either, as long as it's not taking the place of actual interaction with one's partner. My wife feels the same way. We'll watch it separately (if one of us is "in the mood" and the other isn't) or together. We maintain a healthy perspective on what it is.

I was trying to get some clarification from Riverside, as it appears that his POV does not allow for such perspectives and has hard and fast "black and white" delineations on what is and is not "appropriate" for all. Just trying to get a stronger grasp on where he's coming from by clarifying statements made here in the thread.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I also am COMPLETELY in agreement with Meson, Greenpearl and Grayon on this thread. Me & my husband are probably a little more lenient in some of these areas than many marraiges could even "understand" or comprehend, but we have always been 100% monogomous, in heart, in spirit, neither of us have been with another- ever. WE KNOW *our *boundaries. We do NOT overstep them. 

And yet, we enjoy opposite sex friends in our home, on facebook, we even talk about sex with them! But we only see them as a COUPLE , never alone. That is just a given! THough once our guy friend stayed with me while I had roofers doing my roof so I was not alone with strange men at my house. And once I went to a concert with him and 2 of my boys together -he had more interest in the band. None of these were issues with us. 

We also enjoy a little soft porn together, we even enjoy an occasional trip to the strip club! Please judge us now! But we seriously have a thriving marraige, we are like "glue", strapped to each others sides, miss each other every day. There is so much affection between us, others would likely be annoyed if they were married to one of us! 

It works for us. We have never been happier. We are not hurting the other in any way. If we was, we WOULD readjust, our communication is ongoing & always seeking of the others needs & understanding. 

I hurt my husband MORE in the past for being a stuffy inhibited conservative minded "everything is bad" type of wife- can not even be compared to what we share NOW.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> I think his response was pretty clear and to the point.?????


I beg to differ.

Had it been clear and to the point, I would not have requested elaboration. Without such elaboration, his "clear and to the point" response seems to draw a false conclusion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I also am COMPLETELY in agreement with Meson, Greenpearl and Grayon on this thread. Me & my husband are probably a little more lenient in some of these areas than many marraiges could even "understand" or comprehend, but we have always been 100% monogomous, in heart, in spirit, neither of us have been with another- ever. WE KNOW *our *boundaries. We do NOT overstep them.
> 
> And yet, we enjoy opposite sex friends in our home, on facebook, we even talk about sex with them! But we only see them as a COUPLE , never alone. That is just a given! THough once our guy friend stayed with me while I had roofers doing my roof so I was not alone with strange men at my house. And once I went to a concert with him and 2 of my boys together -he had more interest in the band. None of these were issues with us.
> 
> ...


This is true. You do have to find what works between you and your spouse. Not everything I write will be helpful for every marriage. Again, you have to figure out what works for the two of you. Boundaries are important. Having appropriate boundaries (that are decided between you and your spouse) are important for keeping spouses out of possible trouble in the relationship.

Ultimately, you both have to decide TOGETHER what is best. Be honest and respectful towards your spouse as you are creating these unique boundaries for your own relationship.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Riverside MFT said:


> This is true. You do have to find what works between you and your spouse. Not everything I write will be helpful for every marriage. Again, you have to figure out what works for the two of you. Boundaries are important. Having appropriate boundaries (that are decided between you and your spouse) are important for keeping spouses out of possible trouble in the relationship.
> 
> Ultimately, you both have to decide TOGETHER what is best. Be honest and respectful towards your spouse as you are creating these unique boundaries for your own relationship.


You know what ,YOU *IMPRESS *me with this reply.  Just wasn't what I was expecting. Maybe I have myself conditioned to hear the hammer fall from those of a more conservative mindset. I very much APPRECIATE when someone of a difference of opionion can look past their own worldview & not condemn another's if they are not as "strict" in certain areas. It is generally a *RARE *thing to find. 

If someone walked in my particular shoes with MY husband, or his shoes WITH ME, I really think they might understand some of the why's WE have allowed some of the things we have allowed, or if they knew the real "us". We can only convey so much on a forum. We all have a story to tell, a journey to better our marraiges. I like when others ASK or inquire further if they may not agree, but ask to further understand -even if out of sheer curisotiy. And in your case, I see GRACE, not condemnation. A good therapist that makes. 

That is the beauty of online anonymity, that we can truly share our marital experiences, even the more "out of the box" ones, where much of this just isn't discussed in real life with most people. I am not trying to impress, or in some cases trying to make myself look *BAD *! Just being REAL, ya know. If I said I regretted some of the "wilder" things we have done together, I would be LYING through my teeth. 

And I agree with YOU, each marraige needs to be on the "same page", boundaries they agree on and hold FIRM and UNWAVERINGLY too -carrying each other always with love , understanding and respect .


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What about old friends of the same sex...not in age  but friends from BEFORE marriage.

I have a few male friends who have pet names for me from that time in our lives we were close (not dating...none of them I dated). 

I have names for them.

My husband calls a girl Chorizo because of her hair. He's done that for 9 years.

I don't know...those things don't bother me. 

Now, if it's a NEW friend (made within the marriage) and this crap is going on....I don't think I could deal.


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