# What do you do when you're not at the extremes?



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

This will probably end up being one of those threads where I'm going to get the "well, there's not much you can do...". We're not a sexless couple where we need to figure out how to reconnect to have a healthy sexual relationship. We're also not a couple that's screwing our brains out left and right where one of us is trying to figure out how to slow this train down.

I'm in the middle. The lonely region where you're "too rich to get help" but "not rich enough to be affluent". When it comes to sex, we're definitely living in the middle class neighborhood. So continuing the analogy of having a "middle class sexual relationship", how do we move to the more affluent community? So more specifically, how do you convince your wife to move to the more affluent community when she is quite content to live where we currently are?

I guess it comes to how do I raise my wife's libido? How much of this can be changed via the art of persuasion/seduction vs how much of this is purely physiological and cannot be changed?

Some background on us recently. Last year was more challenging for us with intimacy due to a sudden case of dryness and a lower libido. I think the lower libido was traced back to her thyroid, and now it's looking like the moisture is coming back to normal again and she has more energy again. Before her last period, we had some awesome sex and she was telling me it looks like her libido has been bumped up due to getting herself regulated. I was PUMPED UP!! So I was waiting for her to go thru her period and afterwards I was expecting to see a change. Well, I'm not exactly seeing that change. But we are sexually active for sure, and her period started right during the beginning of this year so that crimps our sex life. But here I am, sitting at 4 encounters for the year and wondering why we're not seeing that boost like my wife was thinking was going to be our new reality? 

Regarding starting a thread on here, me coming here and saying we're only at 4 for the year looks trivial. Those in a sexless or near sexless marriage are wondering why am I bothering to post about it? Those on the hyperdrive side are probably thinking meh, he's right in the area for a healthy sex life so what's the big deal? But seriously, I'd love for my sex life to be more. I'd love to break 200 for the year. My libido could easily do it daily. But the wife will not augment with BJs and/or HJs. Right now, that's not in the cards.

So any ideas to address my wife's libido to nudge it higher? IMHO, libido is 1 part chemical and 1 part mental. So how do I address the mental side? Sorry guys, but it seems like I can give the advice well enough when looking at other threads, but when it comes to my own issue about sex I think I'm drawing blanks at the moment.

If you're in a sexless marriage and this thread bothers you, please don't respond and just ignore it. This is a legit concern for ME. I'm sorry if this triggers you if you're sexless, but I'd like to solicit some help on this forum too. Thanks.


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## jdd (Aug 30, 2013)

What happens if you just ask her more often, does she turn you down?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> This will probably end up being one of those threads where I'm going to get the "well, there's not much you can do...". We're not a sexless couple where we need to figure out how to reconnect to have a healthy sexual relationship. We're also not a couple that's screwing our brains out left and right where one of us is trying to figure out how to slow this train down.
> 
> I'm in the middle. The lonely region where you're "too rich to get help" but "not rich enough to be affluent". When it comes to sex, we're definitely living in the middle class neighborhood. So continuing the analogy of having a "middle class sexual relationship", how do we move to the more affluent community? So more specifically, how do you convince your wife to move to the more affluent community when she is quite content to live where we currently are?
> 
> ...


Oh wow. I feel compelled to say something here because I am at one of those extremes, but I understand what you are saying and don't want you to feel any more marginalized than you already do.

As far as 1 part chemical, 1 part mental, I am not sure that balance is the same all the time. I think it changes quite often. It seems like when things are god in the marriage, the 1 part chemical is what holds things where they are and when things are bad, it's the mental part that is the bottleneck. Both can be challenging to overcome. I suspect in your case it is actually the chemical part you are up against from her side. She simply doesn't have the physical urge to up the frequency. Is she in a mental place where she would feel comfortable increasing for no other reason than to please you? Not exactly duty sex in the traditional sense, but not physically driven either if that makes sense?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I am afraid you are correct about the response.

I will say that maybe you are being a bit too hopeful on the time frame for her to recover. It may be a mental thing as much as a physical thing and she needs to regain some confidence in herself.

I am in the middle of the road just like you. Once a week of very enjoyable but extremely routine sex and sometimes a bit more. I used to ask for twice a week and while she most often made the effort I finally decided to except quality over quantity.

I did finally start to get her to give me oral sex as part of foreplay though the last few years starting out with just a tiny bit and really after a few months she started putting some gusto into it. But she would never just offer a BJ or HJ just because I would like one.

But I can relate, I often find myself imagining that her sex drive increases and then am disappointed when it does not. The advice I give myself is to try to stop raising my hopes for something that will not happen and learn to have peace and see the good things. Make sex as good as possible and then entertain myself the rest of the time.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Have you thought of improving quality first, and then if quality is improved, use that as a rationale for improved quantity?

Try quality first then variety and then after (and if) she responds positively work to increase quantity... That is, make it worthwhile for both of you to increase quantity.

High quality does not necessarily increase quantity as I well know but in a healthy relationship it could.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We've had to face this in the past couple of years. We'd dropped down to about 5 or 6x a week - or about half our usual. In our case, it was hormonal. She wanted to fix it - we're both normally HD, and love sex, so it was disconcerting to us both to drop off so much. She found a hormone specialist, and they tried a variety of things. What ended up working is progesterone supplements - and it seems to matter what time of day she takes it. Also, low-dose testosterone cream enhances things occasionally. Wine is sometimes helpful to relax so she can focus on sex better, but we usually reserve that for weekends when we add in a few extra rounds to return to our average of about 10x a week. It's just recently that we found the right combination - it took 2 years, but was worth the effort.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm in the middle. The lonely region where you're "too rich to get help" but "not rich enough to be affluent". When it comes to sex, we're definitely living in the middle class neighborhood.


Right there with ya, brother. But, I'm still 0 for 2014. This blows.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Maybe you're putting too much pressure on her.

I know you don't want anyone to say it but 4 times in 10 days is nothing to complain about. That's more than most, even those who aren't in sexless marriages. Have more quality sex and quit focusing so much on numbers.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

jdd said:


> What happens if you just ask her more often, does she turn you down?


Generally it's every other day. If I initiate for 2 days in a row, I'll get turned down on the 2nd day most times.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Would you be happy if it wasn't intercourse, but just some nice sexual closeness and intimacy? Instead of sex every other day, could you just go for some making out, heavy petting and mashing?

I need those every day, and I think part of why my sex drive is so high is because I do get them every day. Whereas we average actual intercourse sex twice a week.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

john117 said:


> Have you thought of improving quality first, and then if quality is improved, use that as a rationale for improved quantity?
> 
> Try quality first then variety and then after (and if) she responds positively work to increase quantity... That is, make it worthwhile for both of you to increase quantity.
> 
> High quality does not necessarily increase quantity as I well know but in a healthy relationship it could.


Now that she is getting her natural lube back, I'm hoping higher quality will result in a higher quantity. I've thought about going down this path. I've lost a fair amount of weight and that has been improving quality, and I'm hoping to get a little better at it too. We had some hot sex tonight, all variants of missionary. As you suggest, I'm trying to up up my game with improving kissing and missionary. With the weight loss, I can do missionary well again and my wife seems to crave it this way now that I'm slimmer again. That plus her thyroid fix will help get her to desire it more.

I'm hoping.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here... but usually thyroid drugs take anywhere from 3 months to 18 months to regulate your system once you change the dosages. Just want to set your expectations correctly. People that have thyroid disease usually have to be checked regularly because it is not uncommon for thier levels to get out of whack ever so often. You will have to start watching for symptoms ie...libido dropping, hair loss, wieght gain, energy level is dropping..etc..so you know when she may need her meds adjusted.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't understand this obsession with numbers and keeping a tally.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Lyris said:


> I don't understand this obsession with numbers and keeping a tally.


It's just a way of measuring where you are vs where you'd like to be.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I don't understand this obsession with numbers and keeping a tally.


As you imply, not everyone believes that tracking your sex life is something that should be done ever. I can see where people think that you can lose sight of the important things in a relationship in favor of chasing a number, and that it makes intimacy look very "business like" or "clinical" as opposed to something that should be felt. 

I believe that keeping track of what is going on in your relationship when it comes to intimacy is useful provided that the only thing you are doing is simply recording. If you let the tally dictate your behavior, then that is a different situation entirely. I think tracking what is going on so you have an indicator of whether changes you make within your relationship are working or not is a good thing. As Fozzy wrote below, you need to develop a baseline of where you are at before you can determine what you want your future state to be. In our case my wife's thyroid needed to be adjusted, and it appears to be the root cause to some issues we had last year. Tracking what we do this year will give me an idea on whether the change in her meds was the issue. 

For the record, this is the first time I ever actually kept track. A lot of it is simple curiosity on my end too because I always have a rough idea of what we do, but this year I'd like to verify if my recollections of the past are accurate or not.


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## Ihearyah (Nov 1, 2012)

I guess it's all perspective. I don't think i had sex 4 times last year and I would say since maybe the first month of relationship never 4 times in a ten day span.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Lyris said:


> I don't understand this obsession with numbers and keeping a tally.



That's how science works I'm afraid. Even during therapy there are numerous metrics that a good therapist tracks in order to assess status and progress.

I'm not saying to put the metrics ahead of the relationship but one needs an objective metric or two here and there.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

A great weekend for us from an intimacy standpoint. It's looking like her normal lubrication is back and I think she is having an easier time achieving arousal since her thyroid med adjustment. I'll be traveling for work so we'll be apart for several days, but things appear to be heading in the right direction so far. We made it to 6 times for the year as of today. I think I'll definitely have to take a wait and see approach and continue to focus as much on quality as I can and let the quantity come about more naturally. In other words, just use my common sense like many have advocated in this thread. 

Thanks everyone for the help so far. Always great to get some outside perspectives.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Just wanted to add that my last post looked like I was putting this thread to bed. That's not my intent, and I'm very interested in hearing more feedback. I've been taking some of the suggestions in this thread to heart regarding concentrating more on quality plus others in here "talking me off the ledge"...

Please, any thoughts, concerns or anything related to the topic you want to share (like an anecdote of your own) is most appreciated and desired!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I have done some traveling, so I missed out on close to a week out of the month, but things are improving from last year for sure. We have had sex 8 times this month. I don't know if the frequency is any different than last year - perhaps a little higher given our availability to each other, but the quality is definitely better. We've had great quality sex last year, but it was streaky and mixed in with more pedestrian sessions. So far this year, every encounter has been good to mostly great quality. A couple sessions I'd say were legitimate "porn sex" sessions.

You posters who advised working on quality first and then worrying about quantity second...SPOT ON! :smthumbup:


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

It looks like at the end of the day, I'm not going to see an uptick in frequency of sex. I'll say that overall quality has improved more during this time period - and I am very glad for that. Our frequency will never increase to once/day. I think at best we will range from 3 - 5 times per week. I need to embrace the blessings I have in my marriage from an intimacy standpoint and come to terms with the fact that a higher frequency than that will not happen - or at least not for the long term. We have good to great quality sex overall as I've lost weight and her thyroid levels have been regulated.

It's frustrating to me to a certain extent because I've always been HD from the get go, and the improved diet plus exercise is making me crave sex even more. However, I need to be grateful for what we have and to focus on quality.

I don't want to give up hope, but I do need to come to terms with it too. It's the frustration of being "middle class" sexually, because if you're at one extreme or the other you can cope with it. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do when you're in the middle. I need to come to terms with that.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Plan 9... IMHO, you are being way too analytical considering its your own marriage you are focussed on. The counting events, observing the lube, planning frequency is all preventing you from just enjoying it.

For a scientist to do this in the name of science makes sense, but you married in the name of love.

If you are so HD and need the physiological release I think taking matters into your own hands a little more often is part of the solution. Meanwhile if you need to express your love more often then listen to her love language and give her what SHE needs unconditionally.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Brief update. I've been traveling a fair amount for work so far, so there have been 3 to 5 day stretches where I'm not home. Despite that, I am pretty content with how things are going. I'm still keeping a tally for the year, but that's mostly for my own curiosity to see how frequently we'll have sex this year. I don't let the spreadsheet dictate my actions. I go with the flow and simply record only. We are having more sex this year. I think trying to focus more on improving performance from my end has helped. I've been a solid kisser in the past, but I've tried to make kissing more sensual than we did previously. That plus utilizing the missionary position is improving our intimacy. We still have good variety with other positions too, but missionary is my wife's favorite. 

If I had to venture a guess as to what helped improve our quality and increase quantity by a little more, I'd say it was paying more attention to kissing. Probably the most fundamental of activities for improving intimacy.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

But more importantly, statistics aside, are you happier with your sex life now than before?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Lon said:


> But more importantly, statistics aside, are you happier with your sex life now than before?


I'm definitely happier now than before.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: What do you do when you're not at the extremes?*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm definitely happier now than before.


Good! Then so long as you are not risking long term satisfaction keep doing what you are doing!


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

*Re: Re: What do you do when you're not at the extremes?*



Thunder7 said:


> Right there with ya, brother. But, I'm still 0 for 2014. This blows.


Thoughts Thunder. I'm at 0 for 17 months and there are plenty on here who are way longer than that. This does really blow!


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

That DOES suck. I'm not a n o'fer anymore. But, it has not been a banner year thus far.


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