# Stay or Go? Can you look into my marriage and tell me what you see?



## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

I'm confused...to the max.

I have been trying to understand if I'm overreacting to this or if I genuinely should thinking about leaving my wife.For some reason this is not clear to me at all and I dont know what to do. 
I dont have any family close by and she only has one aunt left and a cousin. Everybody lives 3+ hours away.
I'm a consultant, she is a teacher, both making decent salaries. We have been married for 6 years no kids mainly because she doesnt want them, after 1 year of engagement and 1 year from meeting online the first time. She owned a house and asked me to move in within 2 months of dating, which I thought was kind of odd, but since we were getting along well i thought "why not".

Honeymoon in Italy where I'm from and visiting every year with wife. We almost never fight but we have different views on life in general. I'm very easy going, love people and talk to them, while my wife does like to talk to them but to her people are black or white. Either great friends of enemies. I dont see it like that. 

The very first odd thing I noticed is that when we were with people, she would often do something I call "steal my conversation". For example when I would be telling a story, she would jump into the conversation and finish the story for me, and sometimes put me down as in "you are not telling it right" or "you dont remember it". She would also try to one-up everybody, by saying things like "oh thats nothing, listen to what happened to me...". Another thing I noticed is that she never wants to know more about somebody. All her friendships, including some she had for decades, are very shallow. While her friends know a lot about her, she know very little about them. When I ask her about this or that friend something more specific, she cannot answer. For example if I ask How did such and such meet before they got married, she simply doesnt know, and when I ask her why doesnt she know, she says she never really asked. There are a lot of details about her friends that I know, that she doesnt, and when I tell her these details she is often puzzled and asks me "how do you know all this??" and I simply tell her that I asked her friends and they told me. I'm puzzled by these shallow friendships.

Rages:
She would also go into explosive rages for very simple reasons, like I didnt clean the kitchen counter from crumbs after using it or that I dont close a door properly or I dont deal with the trash in the right way. One time we had a huge fight (well she was screaming at me while I was being defensive) over the fact that I dont like the color Turquoise for the walls for one of the bathrooms.

Foreclosures:
A year after we were married I was at home while my wife was at work and the Sheriff showed up to serve foreclosure papers. Not just for the house we were living in, but for another property my wife had in her name. At that time I would pay half of the morgage and give the money to her. When I saw the foreclosure papers arrive I freaked out, took out all my savings and paid all $13,000 in fees and back mortgage in fear of losing the house. The problem went away but I had to take over both mortgages since somehow she could not manage to pay them. Fine. When I tried to discuss the mortgage and foreclosure issue, she will brush it off as not important, and if I insisted she would get mad at me and start screaming again. We have not talked about money in 4 years now, because of her behavior. I avoid the topic completely, just pay for everything and never bring it up. Somehow she never has money while earning a teacher's salary of over 55K. I have access to her bank account, and I see a lot of personal purchases from Amazon, Eddie Bauer and other online retailers. I dont think she has a shopping issue. I think so far I paid close to $130,000 just to fix her issues with previous debt. She also has $170K in student loans but thats a whole new story.

Other Financial issues
She literally handed all the financial things to me. I pay all the bills, make sure that taxes are done right, pay for the bills, pay for dinners and other entertainment. Yet she seems not to have any money.

Engagement Ring
A smaller issue I noticed was with my engagement ring and eventually the wedding ring. I gave her an engagement ring (only a $2000) and she wore it for about 2 months, after that she started wearing her grandmother's $17,000 rock which we had to insure. However my engagement ring was gone and she could not tell me where it went. After the wedding, she never wore the wedding band, but continued to wear the grandmother's rock. Not sure what to make out of this.

Christmas and birthday presents
We celebrate Christmas, and while I'm a pretty good gifter, she is a lousy one. I'm ok with it but she completely gave up on gifts and puts no effort in them. To put it in perspective, I give her things such an iphone, jewelry, clothing and shoes. Some of the most ridicolous things she gave me were: a print out of a present she wanted to give me, but wasnt sure I would like so she printed out the page from Amazon and gave it to me in an envelope. Four used books about a topic I never liked (comic strips), Socks and Uderwear (walmart quality), a tshirt with a unicorn on it, board games (I dont play them and never had) but she said it was so we could do an activity together).

Health Insurance
I get heath insurance through my wife. I was with my accountant while filing taxes and he informed me that in 2016 I didnt have health insurance. I assured him I did through my wife, but he showed me the paperwork. Apparently the IRS keeps track and because of this I would have to pay a penalty of $2600. I was shocked to find out, after talking to my wife, that she simply cancelled my insurance without telling me. When I asked her why she said "you never go to the doctor so why should I pay it".

Holidays
She started going away for all major holidays except Chistmas. In 2016 she missed my birthday (she stopped doing anything for my birthday after 2 years or marriage while I celebrate hers with home made cake which I make for her, presents and a special dinner) because she was in florida, then she missed Easter because she was in Europe with the school (and I understand that) but usually we would go to one of her aunts for Easter dinner and when she left, her aunt didnt invite me. They just left me out. Then she missed 4th of july because she was in Florida again visiting her father while I was remodeling the house. One day in August she texted me one morning that she accidentally bumped into her cousin and they planned a spontaneous Thanxgiving trip to England. She didnt ask if it was ok for her to go since I would be home alone (again), she just planned it and told me it was all set. I wasn't really invited because this was all organized and planned as a "cousin's trip". While I understand how fun this must be I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that she simply forgot about me, and planned something else with somebody else, without even telling me. On Thanxgiving we will go to some swanky place for a couple of days, spa and massage and 7 course thanxgiving dinner, but this year I will end up doing nothing, or at best volunteer at a shelter or something.

Forgetting I exist (marriwd for 6 years going on 7:
- when I ask her what is my favorite food, she doesnt know what to say. (it's pasta and I told the like 100 times)
- She texted me one time and asked me to spell out my last name (we have different last names and kept it that way after married)
- one time she was eating cucumbes (which I hate) and I said just to test her: "cucumbers are my favorite food". She replied "yes I know!". SAme thing happened with another test I did with cottage cheese (which I also hate).
- she was telling some friends about a dinner with 2 other couples her and I went to about 3 years earlier. The 2 other couples were flirting a little too much with each other and this bothered her so she said: "It bothered me because I was there by myself. I wish I had a boyfriend there too, you dont flirt with your boyfriend in front of your single friend." This shocked me because I was there at that dinner too, and I still remember it like it was yesterday. 
- I was a little sick one time, just cough and fever, and she had a friend visit and stay at our house planned for the weekend. I told her it might not be a good idea for the friend to come, and I might get worse if this is flu. The visit was not cancelled at all, her friend came. My wife gave her our bed to sleep in and we were supposed to sleep on a small sofa in the living room for one person. Around 2 AM after not being able to sleep much and with a fever, I transitioned on the floor with a blanket and spent the night there. Nothing was discussed the next day. She did wake up at night when I left the sofa, but didnt ask how was I doing, just kept sleeping happy I gave her room on the sofa.

Recently I started to question how much she was actually emotionally involved with me, as opposed to how much she needed me for support-help, money, emotional support, a body to have when she comes back home or as somebody to yell at (and sex).
When I started looking into my marriage I found out that EVERYTHING is on my shoulders, and the responsibilities of life are heavily skewed. I made a list of everything she does and here it is:
- Grocery shopping (for herself and some common things like sugar or paper towels and I buy my own stuff)
- Some cooking when she feels like it (about 5-10 times a month)
- Occasional vacuuming or floor washing (our house is 1500 sq/ft and we have a cleaning person which she requested)
- Laundry (2 times a month which at some point I had to take over because she was complaining that it was overwhelming for 2 people. Then she wanted the job back)
- Changing the bed sheets (but I have to help)
- Cleaning the litterboxes for the cats. I honestly cannot think of anything else. When she does these things she is also complaining about them, constantly requires my attention, comes to me and says things like "look how neatly I folded all these tshirts" and reqires praises for mundane tasks (you didnt even notice how clean the floor was...).

I would like your opinion on this. PLease ask more questions, I will be monitoring this post and replying quickly.
Is this abuse? Am I overreacting? Somebody suggested whe might be a Narcissistic manipulator, but I still dont know.

EDIT: yestrday I had a little emotional meltdown in the car while driving, I was really mad at my wife for bringing me to this poit of questioning her behavior and involvement in the relationship. I'm fine now.


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## turtle1214 (Oct 11, 2017)

It's hard to believe that this person is a teacher! Kind of tangent, but maybe related to spending habits, but how does a teaching degree result in $170k in student loans? I have two degrees and I'm not even close to $100k.

She definitely has a narcissistic personality disorder. Literally everything in her life is how she perceives it which means she's incapable of empathy. She will never try to see things from your point of view and that, among other things, is absolutely essential in an healthy relationship. This has been going on long before you met her. If anything, I'd say you're UNDERreacting. This is not a person you want to spend the rest of your life with. You already know that.

You can't even say she's manipulating you at this point because that would involve giving you some kind of incentive to stay in this marriage. From what you've explained, there is literally nothing she's done to make you want to stay.

File for divorce. When she is served, she will blame you. She will be unable to recognize how her behavior contributed to your decision. She will only be able to see her side. If there was ever a marriage where someone is set free after divorce, it's yours.

Don't be afraid of that freedom. You don't have the marriage you thought you had. You were led into a cage, trapped, and made to feel like you belong there. Break free!


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

I am wondering if it is borderline personality disorder, rather. Some of what you described definitely sounds familiar.

Does she have an irrational fear of abandonment? Did she experience a very traumatic event in her childhood, perhaps before the age of 8?
@Uptown


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I would say you are being used, for your income.

I would file for divorce and save what little of myself I had left.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

She sounds incredibly selfish and like a user. You are being taken extreme advantage of; you are an afterthought in her life... she gives lousy gifts, takes vacations that exclude you, abandons you on holidays and birthdays, and you are footing the bill for her overindulgent standard of living.

Not to mention her buffoonish behavior of stealing your conversations, and zero investment in getting to know her own friends.

I think it's time to toss this one back. Go out and forge a life with a true life partner. You deserve a woman who will love you properly. You sound like a really nice person; she does not.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

@*Ghost Rider*, thanks for the call-out. 



Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> We almost never fight but.... She would also go into explosive rages for very simple reasons


Hubby, I agree with *Ghost* that you are describing several warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling actions, and black-white thinking -- are some of the warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your W exhibits full-blown BPD (only a professional can determine that). Rather, I suggesting she might be a "BPDer," i.e., exhibiting moderate to strong traits of BPD.

Yet, if she were exhibiting strong BPD traits, you should also be seeing strong signs of emotional instability. It would be evident, e.g., in rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you). Significantly, you don't describe such flips as occurring. Instead, you seem to describe a woman who very consistently devalues you, shows no interest in what you do or like, and devalues you. 

If she were a BPDer, you also would be seeing a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. The "push away" would be evident in her starting fights over absolutely nothing or periods of icy withdrawal. Whether that is happening is unclear because you say "we almost never fight" but then seem to take it back by saying "She would go into explosive rages for very simple reasons." Which is it? Does she start a lot of fights by throwing childish temper tantrums over nothing?

A second possibility is that you're describing strong traits of narcissism. I agree with @*Turtle* that several behaviors you mention -- e.g., her lack of empathy, strong sense of entitlement, always "one-upping" people in conversations, and apparent lack of love for you -- are warning signs for narcissistic behavior (NPD). 

A third possibility is that your W exhibits moderate to strong traits of both BPD and narcissism. It is fairly common for BPDers (those on the upper third of the BPD spectrum) to also exhibit strong NPD behavior. A recent American study found that 32% of the women having full-blown BPD also have full-blown NPD. Moreover, you describe her as having such a complete lack of awareness of other peoples' intentions, feelings, and motivations that there might be some mild autism (aka, "Asperger's") in the mix. Yet, it is difficult to imagine how that could be possible if she's been teaching children or adolescents.

Hence, if you are not yet ready to leave her, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you've been dealing with for six years. And I would suggest that, while you're looking for a good psychologist, you take a quick look my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Hubby.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> I'm confused...to the max.
> 
> I have been trying to understand if I'm overreacting to this or if I genuinely should thinking about leaving my wife.For some reason this is not clear to me at all and I dont know what to do.
> I dont have any family close by and she only has one aunt left and a cousin. Everybody lives 3+ hours away.
> ...


Sounds like you two are living separate lives and she has little care or consideration for you. You have allowed this to happen. I would suggest you get your ducks in a row, go see a lawyer, sort out your rights, sort out your finances and file for divorce. If you want to save the marriage, sit down and make a list of what she has to do
1, household chores
2. transparence with finances
3. contribution to the household budget

These should be non negotiable. You are too easy going in your marriage. Time to be an alpha male and call the shots to get her to wake up, otherwise you will be a doormat forever if you do not divorce her.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Selfish, anal, irresponsible, and immature!

You don’t need that crap! Go see a lawyer!*


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I agree. Looks, sounds, smells, and tastes like BPD.

You'll never get her to change. Never. My best advice is to accept the sunk costs and leave her.

You had lots of red flags early on. Now you know that to ignore them in the future is to seal a perilous fate.


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

turtle1214 said:


> It's hard to believe that this person is a teacher! Kind of tangent, but maybe related to spending habits, but how does a teaching degree result in $170k in student loans? I have two degrees and I'm not even close to $100k.
> 
> She definitely has a narcissistic personality disorder. Literally everything in her life is how she perceives it which means she's incapable of empathy. She will never try to see things from your point of view and that, among other things, is absolutely essential in an healthy relationship. This has been going on long before you met her. If anything, I'd say you're UNDERreacting. This is not a person you want to spend the rest of your life with. You already know that.


OMG thank you for saying that. Why am I so confused about my feelings of loneliness and dont know if leaving is the right decision? I'm doubting myself like I have never done before. It snuk up on me at this stage of my life.



> You can't even say she's manipulating you at this point because that would involve giving you some kind of incentive to stay in this marriage. From what you've explained, there is literally nothing she's done to make you want to stay.


To be honest...very little. 10 months ago I told her I was going through some kind of personal crisis but could not put my finger on it. She became very anxious and sat me down to talk about it, but as soon as I started talking about my feelings and my wants, she brought the conversation back to her, what has she done, what does she want...etc. So it turned more into a conversation about what this personal crisis is taking away from her (like time spent together and me being more mentally present) rather than what I wanted and needed.



> File for divorce. When she is served, she will blame you. She will be unable to recognize how her behavior contributed to your decision. She will only be able to see her side. If there was ever a marriage where someone is set free after divorce, it's yours.
> 
> Don't be afraid of that freedom. You don't have the marriage you thought you had. You were led into a cage, trapped, and made to feel like you belong there. Break free!


I'm creating a nice group of friend who are also looking for new friends. Hopefully that will get me over the fear of being lonely, but like my therapist said "You are already lonely now...". I guess he has a point.
Thank you so much!


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

Ghost Rider I looked into that too, and it might be a combination of BPD and NPD. Her mother is bipolar on heavy meds and attempted suicide. Her father an alcoholic. She is always on the lookout for abandonment and asks about it all the time "you are just gonna leave me one day...". Is that BPD?


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

happy as a clam said:


> She sounds incredibly selfish and like a user. You are being taken extreme advantage of; you are an afterthought in her life... she gives lousy gifts, takes vacations that exclude you, abandons you on holidays and birthdays, and you are footing the bill for her overindulgent standard of living.
> 
> Not to mention her buffoonish behavior of stealing your conversations, and zero investment in getting to know her own friends.
> 
> I think it's time to toss this one back. Go out and forge a life with a true life partner. You deserve a woman who will love you properly. You sound like a really nice person; she does not.


I have been in therapy for a year now and thats exactly what we are coming up with. Building an emotional life that will be balanced. Give and receive in an equal way. It is so hard for me because I'm huge giver...so sometimes people are caught off guard when I give too much and want to reciprocate. I'm on a "giving diet" now as defined by my therapist, and only give when I really feel it (not when it's requested).


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

Uptown said:


> , thanks for the call-out.
> 
> Hubby, I agree with *Ghost* that you are describing several warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the temper tantrums, verbal abuse, controlling actions, and black-white thinking -- are some of the warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your W exhibits full-blown BPD (only a professional can determine that). Rather, I suggesting she might be a "BPDer," i.e., exhibiting moderate to strong traits of BPD.
> 
> Yet, if she were exhibiting strong BPD traits, you should also be seeing strong signs of emotional instability. It would be evident, e.g., in rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you). Significantly, you don't describe such flips as occurring. Instead, you seem to describe a woman who very consistently devalues you, shows no interest in what you do or like, and devalues you.


Ohhh boy! This whole thing rings a million of bells!!!!
Thank you so much for all the links, I'm definitely going to check them out. I do have the feeling that I will have some PTSD after this...and depending how vicious the divorce will be.
Thank god I manage all finances...


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## Lonely Hubby 75 (Oct 23, 2017)

aine said:


> Sounds like you two are living separate lives and she has little care or consideration for you. You have allowed this to happen. I would suggest you get your ducks in a row, go see a lawyer, sort out your rights, sort out your finances and file for divorce. If you want to save the marriage, sit down and make a list of what she has to do
> 1, household chores
> 2. transparence with finances
> 3. contribution to the household budget
> ...


Yes exactly we live separate lives, like literally. I started working 80 miles away so I'm home in the evening and she complains about this change as "not being present enough"
I did allow this, out of love. You know when you are in love with somebody and you dont see clearly? THAT! I also changed a lot, I'm less focused on my career and allow my feelings to surface and I allow my emotions towards myself to exist. I know...its weird but I always put myself last in every situation.

Getting my ducks in a row as we speak...and YES for crying out loud I'm too easy going. I have this motto live and let live but in this case it has worked against me. I'm working on being more assertive with my therapist and its working great. I'm glad we dont have kids, that would be absolutely horrible.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Lonely Hubby 75 said:


> Ohhh boy! This whole thing rings a million of bells!!!!
> Thank you so much for all the links, I'm definitely going to check them out. I do have the feeling that I will have some PTSD after this...and depending how vicious the divorce will be.
> Thank god I manage all finances...


I agree with what many other posters have said. Divorce. It's good to read that you seem to be serious about that option. Your wife's behavior, even if not her fault due to a possible mental disorder, is terrible.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

If it is as described, she has some serious problems, is unlikely to change, and you are fortunate not to have had children. Better document things if you get divorced because the self-centeredness you have seen will quadruple, and she will get to a nasty lawyer to try to soak you for money. I suppose this is like the movie, Get out.


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## NjGuy8282 (Jan 25, 2018)

turtle1214 said:


> It's hard to believe that this person is a teacher!
> 
> She definitely has a narcissistic personality disorder!


Yes. narcissistic


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