# The Invasion of the Body Snatchers



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

In the WalterWhite420 thread, the OP (Walter) noted that he wrote a very detailed exposure email and distributed it to family, including the WW's parents and relatives. Within that letter he showed some artistic flair and vividly painted a Singer Sewing Machine metaphor to highlight the effect of the OM being on top of the WW and penetrating her. One commenter took offense at the graphic nature of the exposure letter and particularly the effect that this style of letter would have on the WW's parents, arguing that they simply didn't need to have such a vivid description of the exposure moment. I disagree.

The basis for my disagreement is that most people simply don't really know much about affairs and the trauma involved. A bull-figher and a bull are both involved in bull fight but both have vastly different experiences of the same event. A car-driver and a pedestrian are both involved in an accident but each has a different experience. A BS and a WS (and the AP) are involved in the affair/marriage, but their experiences are vastly different. Now take a step away from those experiences. You read about a bull fight, a pedestrian being hit by a car and an affair and, absent direct experience, your view is less informed.

We all walk around with a bunch of knowledge stuck in our heads, but most of that knowledge is not independently derived, it is accumulated wisdom passed onto us in basic form. We all know the basic outlines of what constitutes an affair, we all know that the BS has their feelings hurt, that the WS acted on desire and stepped out. For a lot of people, that constitutes their understanding of affairs. If people really had a true understanding of what a BS goes through would WS's be so cavalier about starting affairs? Even after exposure of the affair, many WS don't quite grasp the full extent of the damage they've done to the BS and they get the benefit of having a front-row seat to the aftermath, instead their experience of "the affair" comes from having lived the WS's side of the experience. Same, of course, can be said of the BS really understanding the full grip of The Fog and the exciting sex which comes from sneaking around, having secrets, living in a fantasy, etc.

The BS gets a front-row seat to watch the "body snatcher" transformation of their WS playing out before them and they can't believe what is happening. Good luck to those further removed from the "body snatcher" transformation understanding what is really going on with The Affair. Most people, I would guess, simply have a rudimentary and abstract understanding of what is going on and they assume that everything is playing out by choice and reason, no brain chemicals involved, no compulsions, everyone in full possession of their will-power and mental faculties. And finally, everyone knows that sex is involved in an affair, but what is blotted out is the powerful emotions unleashed within the BS from the sexual, and emotional betrayal (and of course even fewer people understand the dynamics of emotional affairs) and it's here that a more graphic exposure letter can deliver a greater impact to the reader, making the gravity of the affair more real.

In real life, my wife and I, come from families where there has been no divorce or infidelity (that we know of) in our parent's generation and our grandparent's generation, but we've seen the fallout from families of our schoolmates and neighbors. Then we were kids and our understanding was only an inch-deep (some kid's parent got a new boyfriend/girlfriend and a divorce was going to happen). Later, at university and early adult-life, we saw the effects on three of my male friends of serous girlfriends, fiancees, and wives, stepping out. Later still, there were two of her male friends who suffered the same outcome. Now things became more real, we saw the devastation playing out before our eyes but even here it was a sanitized version, we weren't deep in the trenches with our friends, they came forward a few days after their D-Days.

What we found interesting in the aftermath of these incidents was how often others, more removed from the friends in question, offered up glib solutions. What's the big deal? Get over it. Reconcile already. What's clear to me is that the more removed one is from an infidelity experience, the more shallowly one models it as an experience. This actually pisses me off and I don't have any skin in this game! (knock on wood.) On a few occasions I've played a game with a man who talked this way at a casual social gathering. I asked him to look at his wife's face, then to take a very good look at his friend's face, study the structure of that guy's face, then to close his eyes, picture himself having sex with his wife, now shift his "camera" position from on-top over to the side of the bed, sitting in a chair, watching his wife have sex with him, kind of an out-of-body experience, and to know substitute his friend in place of himself. Then I amplified the scene by having his wife increase her enthusiasm for the sex-act and to be positioned in the most lewd fashion he could imagine and to be moaning in delight, in ecstasy, the friend's name, then have her proclaiming that the friend is so much more of a man, a better lover, than her husband. Then I asked him how we has dealing with the visions in his head? Every single time I pull this gag the guy doesn't take it too well. Then I note that BS, of both sexes, see these movies playing in their heads for the rest of their lives. They are no longer so committed to their flippant remarks about the suffering of others.

So back to my opening remark about the WalterWhite420 Singer Sewing Machine reference. There are a lot of people who seem to have very shallow understanding of what infidelity actually, truly, translates to, and so an exposure letter which blasts through such shallowness and conveys the full gravity of the betrayal, which come with a shock value, I would think would generate greater levels of revulsion and disapproval and more pressure on the WS to cease and to get their marriages repaired or to do what the BS is trying to accomplish with the exposure letter.

Convey the full gravity, the seriousness, of what is going on because for many of us, what that BS is experiencing is abstract at some level, and the more people that "get it" the better this acts as a deterrent because some of those people who come to "get it" may one day find themselves to be in the precipice of an affair and that deeper level of understanding may be just enough to give them second thoughts.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Then I note that BS, of both sexes, see these movies playing in their heads for the rest of their lives.


For all of your pontificating about others having no idea about infidelity, you do exactly the same here and make it clear that you also have no idea as well.

Since what you have written above has not ever been my experience (I was cheated on by my ex-wife 29 years ago). Yet I wasn't traumatised, I didn't break down, I didn't have suicidal thoughts or suffer from any depression or anxiety, or have any other mental ills as a consequence. Plus I've never had mind movies of the experience either.

Oh and I also got over it (because that's healthy and sensible) and moved on, while having plenty of fun with other women along the way.

What I do find ironic however is that here you are carrying on about this, while suggesting others can't know what it's like without experiencing it. All while you have absolutely no personal experience of this either.

So with that said I think you should try to get a grip of yourself, and try to get over it. Since infidelity isn't the end of the world.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> For all of your pontificating about others having no idea about infidelity, you do exactly the same here and make it clear that you also have no idea as well.
> 
> Since what you have written above has not ever been my experience (I was cheated on by my ex-wife 29 years ago). Yet I wasn't traumatised, I didn't break down, I didn't have suicidal thoughts or suffer from any depression or anxiety, or have any other mental ills as a consequence. Plus I've never had mind movies of the experience either.
> 
> ...


I don't see the irony you see. I'm learning from the experiences of others, I made an effort to highlight how my understanding increased with greater levels of exposure to infidelity. You've, apparently, got some burr up your ass about my viewpoint. Fine. This forum though is filled with stories of BS being surprised by the drastic changes they see taking place in their WS as they go deeper into the infidelity. Many are surprised by the strength and depth of their own reactions. Why are so many people surprised? Why aren't they know-it-alls like you? Maybe we're dealing with a selection bias problem here, the only folks who post here asking for advice are the people not well versed in typical behavior patterns seen in infidelity, and those people, like you, who know much, well, they simply have no need to post here. Maybe that's it. I don't know.

You should though engage with what I wrote, not what you imagined I wrote. I made no suggestion that others CANNOT know without experiencing, I noted that many people don't. I'm writing descriptively, you're casting my view as being categorical.

You got over it? Got over what? You just wrote that you didn't experience any negative effects So what did you get over? I'm curious, you note your ex-wife. How long after her betrayal did you decide to divorce? Was divorce your solution? Out of sight, out of mind, hence no effects?

Infidelity is not the end of the world. Again, I never wrote that it was. I wrote that I see it as an H-Bomb in marriage. If divorce was your response, then wasn't her infidelity also the vehicle which destroyed your marriage? Again, I don't know your story, I'm simply making an assumption here. I sure don't want to experience it and I want to prevent. I don't think I'm like you, nonchalant about my life being upended against my will.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> You read about a bull fight, a pedestrian being hit by a car and an affair and, absent direct experience, your view is less informed.


I concur with this and agree you are less informed.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> I concur with this and agree you are less informed.


What's interesting about being a lurker who delves deep into the archives is that such people get to read a lot of comments and get to know the regulars here and learn by working backwards through time, knowing the outcomes for many and then reading about their earlier stories and knowing how those stories will turn out. It's a fascinating experience.

I've read a number of your comments.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> You got over it? Got over what?


Marital infidelity, do keep up.



> I'm curious, you note your ex-wife. How long after her betrayal did you decide to divorce?


I can't remember it was a long time ago, that said I separated from her within 24 hours of her confession (my finding out about it).



> Was divorce your solution?


Of course it was the solution, since she forfeited her opportunity to remain with me as a consequence of her betrayal.



> If divorce was your response, then wasn't her infidelity also the vehicle which destroyed your marriage?


Which was also the vehicle that afforded me new opportunities and a kaleidoscope of great experiences.

The end of a marriage can be a good thing gong forward.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> I've read a number of your comments.


Aw shucks, it's such a burden being popular.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> Marital infidelity, do keep up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you think, maybe, just maybe, that your ability to bypass so many negative effects had something to do with you pulling the rip-cord on the marriage within 24 hours of finding out about infidelity. That's a power-move, you take control of the situation, you don't put yourself into a situation where you are some victim of her actions. So, what do you imagine you would have experienced if you had tried to stay and reconcile with her? How much pride would you have had to swallow and what effect would that have had on you?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Do you think, maybe, just maybe, that your ability to bypass so many negative effects had something to do with you pulling the rip-cord on the marriage within 24 hours of finding out about infidelity.


Maybe it's because I don't see much point in worrying about things I can't control. When things change, you adjust accordingly.



> That's a power-move, you take control of the situation, you don't put yourself into a situation where you are some victim of her actions.


Life is too short to waste on choosing to be a victim.



> So, what do you imagine you would have experienced if you had tried to stay and reconcile with her? How much pride would you have had to swallow and what effect would that have had on you?


There's nothing to imagine. A few weeks after the beginning of our separation, following her begging and prostration, combined with pleas from her and my parents. I gave reconciliation a go for two weeks. So after ****ing her for those two weeks, I told her I was done the last time I had her.

The experience was fine, since as always the sex was great because like me she was exceptional at it. It's just that I was done with her as a consequence of her betrayal, so the best thing was simply to let her go.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> Maybe it's because I don't see much point in worrying about things I can't control. When things change, you adjust accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You were there in body, not spirit. This puts you in a very different mindset than folks who desperately want to salvage their marriage and are still deeply invested in their spouse. The way I interpret your remark is that you were pushed, guilted, into a reconciliation effort. When you acted on your own free-will you bailed within 24 hours, that takes a level of detachment, or a wall of some sort to compartmentalize what you had felt about her 48 hours prior (assuming you didn't suspect and she had not disengaged yet.)


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> When you acted on your own free-will you bailed within 24 hours, that takes a level of detachment, or a wall of some sort to compartmentalize what you had felt about her 48 hours prior (assuming you didn't suspect and she had not disengaged yet.)


I was blindsided by her confession. She had got with a guy at a party while I was away for work, then she fessed up shortly after my return. Of which although I found her behaviour appalling, I found her supplication and prostration to be more distasteful than her infidelity. No compartmentalisation, just practical if people **** you over, you **** them off out of your life.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> I was blindsided by her confession. She had got with a guy at a party while I was away for work, then she fessed up shortly after my return. Of which although I found her behaviour appalling, I found her supplication and prostration to be more distasteful than her infidelity. No compartmentalisation, just practical if people *** you over, you *** them off out of your life.


 There's lots of folks who report feeling like a switch turned off in them, one moment they love their spouse, the comes the reveal of the infidelity, and boom, either hatred or indifference just washes over them. That has to make the decision to divorce much easier. Your reaction is not what people desperate to reconcile seem to experience. They're feeling betrayal and simultaneously wanting to be comforted by their betrayer. Mind Shock right there. That's going to unleash all of those negative effects you bypassed.

What I don't see you writing is that you were still deeply in love with her and made a conscious and rational decision. What it looks like is your feelings turned off, no battle between loving her and making a hard and rational choice to leave her. With feelings switched off, either by shock or that damn sudden switch, the decisions which followed came easier. I don't know, you were the one there, not me, but that sudden cessation of love is something that happens (learning from you guys, the experts). It seems to me that some people simply experience an acceleration of what happens to many people in reconciliation, they simply can't stomach it and notice a growing detachment and indifference.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Long story short-ish, I have been both a BS and a WS. I've also been very open about it, both irl and online. This has lead many closeted WS's (family, friends, and internet homies) to talk to me. I find human behavior interesting and, while I know "it's complicated", I tend to boil things down to the simplest form.



Lance Mannion said:


> One commenter took offense at the graphic nature of the exposure letter and particularly the effect that this style of letter would have on the WW's parents, arguing that they simply didn't need to have such a vivid description of the exposure moment. I disagree.


I find it ridiculous, too. The parents are adults who've clearly had some years life experience. I'm going to go with they've had sex, seen pornographic images/movies, and are well aware their adult child has sex, too.



Lance Mannion said:


> We all know the basic outlines of what constitutes an affair, we all know that the BS has their feelings hurt, that the WS acted on desire and stepped out. For a lot of people, that constitutes their understanding of affairs.


Well, really, there isn't much more to it than that. The WS did decide to betray and the BS is mentally and emotionally hurt by the betrayal. 



Lance Mannion said:


> If people really had a true understanding of what a BS goes through would WS's be so cavalier about starting affairs? Even after exposure of the affair, many WS don't quite grasp the full extent of the damage they've done to the BS


You want a real unvarnished answer? Yes. 

Something people tend to gloss over is that an affair never "just happened". It was actually a series of decisions that lead then from chitchat to flirting to breaking the touch barrier, to planning meetings, to being naked together. WS's know exactly what they're doing. Most either think they'll never get caught and are aware of the risks to their BS and decide to move forward anyway. Why? Because what they want is higher priority than their partners feelings.



Lance Mannion said:


> Same, of course, can be said of the BS really understanding the full grip of The Fog and the exciting sex which comes from sneaking around, having secrets, living in a fantasy, etc.


I'm just gonna say it. "The Fog" is psychobabble bullpucky.

Humans are chemical engines. We've constantly got hormones flooding our systems. Being jacked up on hormones doesn't negate the ability to judge right from wrong. "The Fog" is an excuse. It enables the WS and BS to blameshift. 

"It wasn't me! It was the hormones! I couldn't think clearly." 
"My spouse would never have done this to us if it wasn't for The Fog!"

Yeah, bullpoop. If The Fog were so all powerful the hormone laden brain wouldn't be able to function in daily life. Yet, the WS not only functions in daily life, they also are capable of doing any number of things to conceal and continue their affairs.

They know what they're doing, they know it's wrong, they know what they're risking, and they are choosing to take that risk because their own desires and pleasure are their priority.



Lance Mannion said:


> The BS gets a front-row seat to watch the "body snatcher" transformation of their WS playing out before them and they can't believe what is happening.


No one's body got snatched. The mask merely slipped.



Lance Mannion said:


> Most people, I would guess, simply have a rudimentary and abstract understanding of what is going on and they assume that everything is playing out by choice and reason, no brain chemicals involved, no compulsions, everyone in full possession of their will-power and mental faculties.


Because, as adults, we actually are expected to make choices and use reason. Hormones don't suddenly make us incapable of thinking, reasoning, or exercising self control. They merely incline us toward behavior. We choose whether or not to give in to the desire to act on our urges, both violent and sexual. This is why PMS is not a valid excuse for murder.



Lance Mannion said:


> What we found interesting in the aftermath of these incidents was how often others, more removed from the friends in question, offered up glib solutions. What's the big deal? Get over it. Reconcile already.


Well, what else are folks supposed to say? Frankly, the BS's pain is the BS's pain. It's not the pain of their friends and family. Friends and family can offer some sympathy and support, but the BS has to work through their pain and make the tough decisions themselves. No one can do it for them.

"Reconcile already."

If the BS is still in the marriage or on the fence weeks after discovery and talking to their friends about it, at a certain point the friends want the BS to fish or cut bait. Either reconcile and move forward, split and move forward, but move forward because backward isn't an option. 

"What's the big deal?"

Some people don't think sex is a big deal. They don't place the same importance on sex and aren't as bothered by infidelity. For people in this category, planning to leave the relationship secretly with the AP or actually leaving might be the big betrayal. But sex and maybe a bit of limited emotional attachment? No big deal.

Not to mention this whole thing is a bad deal for friends and family. Whether the couple reconciles or splits, anything said during the limbo phase can and will be held against them. I don't think it's glibness so much as trying to avoid getting pulled in too deep and not being able to maintain a relationship with one or both of the spouses once the dust settles.



Lance Mannion said:


> so an exposure letter which blasts through such shallowness and conveys the full gravity of the betrayal, which come with a shock value, I would think would generate greater levels of revulsion and disapproval and more pressure on the WS to cease and to get their marriages repaired or to do what the BS is trying to accomplish with the exposure letter.


This really depends. As I mentioned, I was open about my own affairs. I know many others who were caught or came out as being involved outside their marriage over the years. For the most part, no one cared. There'd be some gossip, a snide remark or two, and a relative or friend that distances themselves, but life goes on. Most bystanders see it as a "not my circus, not my monkey" thing.



Lance Mannion said:


> he more people that "get it" the better this acts as a deterrent because some of those people who come to "get it" may one day find themselves to be in the precipice of an affair and that deeper level of understanding may be just enough to give them second thoughts.


Some know and don't care. Some know, care, and do it anyway. But some will have 2nd thoughts and nip it in the bud.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

I didn’t read the posts you refer to, but if people find the visual of a sewing machine offensive, they don’t want to spend a day in my head. For months all I did was visualize the pornographic mind movies all day long. I still have them, several times a day. And we aren’t talking about just the porn movies, I have movies that play of them flirting, her giggling, the day I found them together, the things I said, the texts and calls when I found out about them. I have thousands of movies that play at different times and days. 

I think the worst mind movie I have is when I actually saw him wrap his arms around her in the parking lot. That hit me right in the gut. And I see it all the time. A fictional mind movie I have is of his O face... over top of her. I had a dream last night I caught them in a hotel together and I beat the living crap out of her. (I’ve always partly wished I had messed her face up when I caught them so she’d have had to go home and explain to her husband and kids who rearranged her gigantic teeth and why... hence the dreams.)

I can only imagine what soldiers with PTSD endure and what their mind movies look like. I have a deeper appreciation for their pain and anguish and mine is not a comparison, but I do feel I understand so much more about trauma than I ever did before. All traumas for that matter. I’ll never be so flippant again.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Without reading all the long posts.....what is your game, OP? Why are you here? 

You said you haven't experienced infidelity. Nor, does it seem, are you a marriage or sex therapist.

So, again, why are you here?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> Something people tend to gloss over is that an affair never "just happened". It was actually a series of decisions that lead then from chitchat to flirting to breaking the touch barrier, to planning meetings, to being naked together. WS's know exactly what they're doing. Most either think they'll never get caught and are aware of the risks to their BS and decide to move forward anyway. Why? Because what they want is higher priority than their partners feelings.


In the opening act of the movie _Heat_, the criminals hold up an armored car, the guards are told to kneel down with their hands on their head while the criminals rifle through the armored car in search of their prize. One guard twitches and a criminals shoots him down. Now they're all on the hook for murder, so they silently know what must be done, they murder all of the remaining guards because there is no additional penalty for them and this way they leave no witnesses. Coolly rational.

Most people are not cool rational engines, silently weighing out all of the pros and cons of their decisions. Some are though. You might well be one of those people, but I think it's a mistake to presume that everyone is like that. Lots of people are reactors, reacting to emotional impulses. No rational person would choose to become a meth or heroin addict, but plenty of people do. Same with a gambling addict, same with a spendaholic. 

We read so much testimony in these stories. "What were you thinking when you were having sex with him?" "I wasn't thinking of you dear, I was just in the moment."

Your model presumes a full rational debate is taking place, with all pertinent facts and data on display. My model presumes that rational debate often doesn't take place, of if it does it happens at an early stage where no real harm is yet taking place and so, once having taken place the immediate decision, while acceptable, is allowed to dominate and there is no revisiting the rational debate as matters escalate, the rational debate was compartmentalized away. Simultaneous to this is the escalation of the "feel goods" which makes it harder for the decision-making mind to intervene and stop what is transpiring.

[quote[Humans are chemical engines. We've constantly got hormones flooding our systems. Being jacked up on hormones doesn't negate the ability to judge right from wrong. "The Fog" is an excuse. It enables the WS and BS to blameshift.[/quote]

If this view was operative, the being drunk would be a get-out-of-jail card, but no one is given that pass, people are held responsible for their actions while drunk, while sleepy, while enraged. People can be in the Fog and still held responsible for their damn choices. 

The ones trying to use The Fog as an excuse are of the same mold as those who use being drunk as an excuse for causing a motor vehicle fatality while driving drunk. No excuse.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Gabriel said:


> Without reading all the long posts.....what is your game, OP? Why are you here?
> 
> You said you haven't experienced infidelity. Nor, does it seem, are you a marriage or sex therapist.
> 
> So, again, why are you here?


I'm here because I'm scared of the experience and the costs of infidelity. I stumbled on the forum for something not associated with infidelity, clicked over to read out of curiosity and was pulled in and found the confessions and the advice given to be compelling reading. This got me paranoid! The more I read, the more real the trauma and devastation became.

My wife and I have always role-played important aspects of our relationship. We role play in the bedroom, of course, but we also role-play speeches we are preparing to give, role play interviews we may be involved in, role play negotiation behavior and tactics, role play various marital disputes before they arise, role play boundary enforcement due to flirtation, so that the modeled behaviors we develop become 2nd nature to us and don't have to be derived on the spot.

I have to travel for my business, so over the years I've come to terms with being away from my children for a week or longer. My wife has never had to unwillingly be away from the kids for a week. So, in my mind, I'm thinking that a 50/50 custody split is still an abstract notion in her mind. I'm kicking around the idea of role-playing what a split would really entail, to put that awful taste in both of our mouths, so that it becomes the equivalent of a learned response and, hopefully can act as an additional deterrent to some future infidelity impulse. As I mulled this over I came to realize that it would be difficult to role play out the drama of an infidelity reveal, the emotions are too damn raw, the Fog behavior is too alien to play-act out. I've still got a lot to think about before I engage with my wife about how to up the deterrents to these marriage-killing acts.

What I'm saying is that there is a difference, within me at least, from knowing that some couple is splitting and sharing the kids, or suffering the after-effects of infidelity, and then reading the stories here and seeing the devastation play out in more heart-wrenching detail. The costs of infidelity become more real to me by my exposure to the material here. I don't think I'm alone here, lots of people report that they once thought "it could never happen to me." Surprise. I don't want to be surprised in that particular fashion.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

QuietRiot said:


> I can only imagine what soldiers with PTSD endure and what their mind movies look like. I have a deeper appreciation for their pain and anguish and mine is not a comparison, but I do feel I understand so much more about trauma than I ever did before. All traumas for that matter. I’ll never be so flippant again.


I really like this thought of yours because it speaks to the exact same process I'm writing about. PTSD became more real for you as you came to see something similar play out in your own life, PTSD moved up the reality ladder and was no longer merely an abstract concept. Same thing, I believe, plays out for people with no exposure to infidelity.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I thought I was long winded. 

Carry on....


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Seriously, welcome to the discussion.

You should have divorced your wife instead of cheating. I wonder if you are really posting and reading hear because secretly you are dealing with the bad deal you accepted. 

The problem with R is the WS nature, or as I always say, it's in their nature.

Lots and lots of folks started posting on here struggling with the aftermath while desperateness clinging to the happily R mindset only to later come to the realization that they were very very unhappy with the unfairness of it all. You wouldn't be the first.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

sokillme said:


> Seriously, welcome to the discussion.
> 
> You should have divorced your wife instead of cheating. I wonder if you are really posting and reading hear because secretly you are dealing with the bad deal you accepted.
> 
> ...


While I write a lot I see that I have to work on improving the clarity of what I write. No cheating, no divorce.

Cheating in the nature of the WS. I suspect that this applies to some, but I'm left wondering about those one-offs. Somewhere in the archives was the story of the mother who had a GNO, many such nights had preceded this eventful night and nothing had happened, but this night she ran into an old HS friend and his buddy, had a threesome with them, then stopped GNO forever after, lived 15 years as the model wife, carrying her guilt, and then confessed and all hell broke loose. If it was in her nature, then why did she not act on that nature before that night and then after that night?

I suspect for a lot of people, it's just a matter of poor impulse control combined with the effects of alcohol. That's scares me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lance Mannion said:


> While I write a lot I see that I have to work on improving the clarity of what I write. No cheating, no divorce.
> 
> Cheating in the nature of the WS. I suspect that this applies to some, but I'm left wondering about those one-offs. Somewhere in the archives was the story of the mother who had a GNO, many such nights had preceded this eventful night and nothing had happened, but this night she ran into an old HS friend and his buddy, had a threesome with them, then stopped GNO forever after, lived 15 years as the model wife, carrying her guilt, and then confessed and all hell broke loose. If it was in her nature, then why did she not act on that nature before that night and then after that night?
> 
> I suspect for a lot of people, it's just a matter of poor impulse control combined with the effects of alcohol. That's scares me.


Not sure how this disproves my theory. Obviously something was going on to allow her to have a threesome with someone, which involved all manner of lying, and then 15 years of lying after the fact. That women's nature is one of a liar (decades in fact to the primary person in her life, about the most important relationship). By very definition not AT ALL a model wife.

You also don't get to call it a ONS when you have been lying about it for 5475 nights (ignoring leap year cause I didn't feel like doing the math).

I swear if I have to read one more time about a WS who lies for years even decades being a model spouse.

It's a joke.

Imagine if it was money. Lets say a breadwinner (for the sake of this argument we will say the husband, I have to say this for those more sensitive out there) was overseeing the household budget and tells his wife that all the expenditures are in order that the margins are good and there is a small surplus for them to live on as they grow old. Then one day she comes across those crooked books only to find out he had lost a fortune on one night of reckless gambling years earlier. Rather then confessing, without her knowledge he took out a second mortgage on the house to pay back the debt. The proceeding years having been spent hiding the debt by slowly paying it off as to minimize the consequences, and in the process, spending a life time, cheating her out of the collateral or years of financial responsibility and moderate living. Not to mention the emotional tool that took on him and how that affected their relationship. Years that could have lead to financial prosperity and a more comfortable lifestyle. Would anyone say this person is a good husband? I wouldn't. Just the lying itself proves it not to be true.

You suffer from what most who R due. You set the lowest of bars.

It seems only with adultery are there apologist for lying for years. But I say lying for years is the worst of crimes in a marriage even worse then the adultery itself because it takes away your spouses agency. It prevents them from making an informed choice. It's like rape in that way.

No sir, no "model" spouses in that story.

I think a lot of people post on this board for clarity. But they don't understand or maybe even refuse to understand the clarity they are seeking. They write things like, a wife that lies for 15 years is a model spouse wholeheartedly believing it in their mind, but their heart knows this isn't just untrue, It's awful. There is a terrible disconnect because they try to intellectualize away what there heart rightfully tells them every day. 

The reason why they are desperately unhappy is because they are lying to themselves. The uneasiness isn't really about how people can cheat, they understand how people can cheat, we all do. Everyone understands lust. No it's the dissonance of trying to live with something they know is unlivable. It's trying to make themselves believe something their heart refuses too. It's unsustainable, and posting here is the first step to finding that out.


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