# between a rock and a hard place



## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

Hi 

I recently discovered my wife has been having and emotional affair for about a year, she has downplayed the significance of this, and only has admitted things if i drag them out of her, she said from the beginning it was only a friend, but yesterday i she admitted that maybe they fell in love with each other but never said it. the one msg log i found it was evident that they did admit it, he saying i love you and she responding me too. she said that it was just in a friendship way but prior in the conversation he said he would be dreaming of her, which to me is not in a just friendship.

thing is, she wants to just forget it and move on, and my heart (and everything i have read) says that will not work. we just moved to a different country and our things still haven't been sent, and she wants to go back to get rid of anything that she had saved between them, she has already done that here where we are. and to top it off she wants total privacy.

in her mind she says we need to fix our financial issues then deal with this but that she loves me and would never break up our marriage as she could not do that to our children.

please let me know if you think i'm an idiot to even try in this situation


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

You are not an idiot to try, and you came to the right place.

You got her to step one, which was admitting it. Step two is remorse, and she isn't doing this. Until she is remorseful, she is very apt to continue the affair under your nose. The fact she has refused to be transparent with you is a huge red flag they are still in contact. She needs to cut it off with him and show you her NC (no contact) note/letter/whatever as proof. Then she has to give you access to her passwords and such. 

Until you get to this stage, there is no point in giving you more advice on what happens after that. It's just the beginning. But there is always hope that you can salvage your marriage. Good luck.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

I don't want to hijack this thread, but if my wife and her girlfriend talk about love and loving each other in their correspondence, is it different because it's another woman?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Privacy means the ability to keep secrets in the marriage and that will kill the marriage.

She wants to both rug sweep, and have total privacy do she can continue the EA without problem or threat from you. Both would be a disaster to your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Hard and blunt here:



q4truth said:


> Hi
> 
> I recently discovered my wife has been having and emotional affair for about a year, she has downplayed the significance of this, and only has admitted things if i drag them out of her, she said from the beginning it was only a friend, but yesterday i she admitted that maybe they fell in love with each other but never said it. the one msg log i found it was evident that they did admit it, he saying i love you and she responding me too. she said that it was just in a friendship way but prior in the conversation he said he would be dreaming of her, which to me is not in a just friendship.


What utter B.S. This was not a friendship, like you said it was an affair. Are you sure it wasn't physical to? She's gas lighting you and giving you trickle truth here.



q4truth said:


> thing is, she wants to just forget it and move on, and my heart (and everything i have read) says that will not work. we just moved to a different country and our things still haven't been sent, and she wants to go back to get rid of anything that she had saved between them, she has already done that here where we are. and to top it off she wants total privacy.


Again, utter B.S. She's rug sweeping it, likely trying to go back and reestablish contact and she has less than zero right to privacy. Her privacy got you a cheating wife didn't it?



q4truth said:


> in her mind she says we need to fix our financial issues then deal with this but that she loves me and would never break up our marriage as she could not do that to our children.
> 
> please let me know if you think i'm an idiot to even try in this situation


And the final installment of B.S. She would never break up your marriage because you are her safety net, comfort, fall back, and likely financial supporter. Why leave when she's got you doing the work and her OM to fill her emotional needs?

Bottom line is she's not even the least bit remorseful and you can't even begin to reconcile without remorse on her part. Understand remorse is different than guilt but it doesn't sound like she's got that either. How do you know the affair is over? Based on your post I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it's still going on. She's reading from the waywards script damn near verbatim. You are not wrong to feel like she's not dealing with this. Unfortunately until she takes some ownership, gets some remorse and does the things necessary to reconcile like willingly giving up privacy your efforts will likely be wasted and may in fact be counter productive.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

well the only reassurance i have that it wasn't physical is that the OM in question is overseas, through pictures on his facebook profile it seems that he has the ability to travel for work conventions at least
the fact that my wife wants to get rid of whatever she was saving makes me nervous, as how devastating can it be that she requires a trip to make sure i don't find it


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

today i was going to send her some links to have her read the best way to repair trust and rebuild the relationship, then i thought that she might think i was just pushing my side, so i told her what i was thinking of doing and that it would be best if she researched it for herself so that she could understand, i guess there is not much hope as she said again that she didn't even have time for that, that her priority was for us to get established first then deal with it, (a far cry from i will do anything to fix things she said when i had left the house with my passport)


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

another little interesting tidbit, she had gone into my facebook acct and blocked the OM, originally denied it then admitted to it, and after discovery day, and she notified the OM of discovery, he blocked me. sounds soooooo innocent doesn't it?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

To put it simply: she's still in the affair.

She's now, in fact, going to hide it better.

You now need to decide for yourself if you want to stay with a cheater.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> And the final installment of B.S. She would never break up your marriage because you are her safety net, comfort, fall back, and likely financial supporter. Why leave when she's got you doing the work and her OM to fill her emotional needs?


thats the thing, we have been going through financial problems for a long time, and i am not her financial supporter/fallback/safety net.

Her parents think I was harassing her trying to resolve this after discovery and we got into a big fight, i went to leave and she freaked out like i have never seen, its soo confusing


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

q4truth said:


> thats the thing, we have been going through financial problems for a long time, and i am not her financial supporter/fallback/safety net.
> 
> Her parents think I was harassing her trying to resolve this after discovery and we got into a big fight, i went to leave and she freaked out like i have never seen, its soo confusing


Full transparency, no privacy no secrets, nothing else to say.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

There is one more thing that must be said here. It is no longer her say in the matter. Your wife lost that right with her EA and her love for another man.

It is up to her to help you heal under your terms.Her submission will help you heal or her continued effort to put up the wall will screw up the marriage.

There is only one question....does she want to stay married to you?

The answer to this wll tell you if she has the commitment to fix this bs...


I hope her answer is yes and the new q4truth has specific terms that need to be met for a healthier marriage.

Be warned your wife may have some of her own term for a healthy marriage, but the main thing here is that her adultorus behavior be addressed and learned from, so that it never happens again.

So for this sole purpose her A must be put on the table and opened up. A consequence she needs to face and learned from.

Looking at this ughly pain and shameful event in her marriage is ...IMO the healthiest way to prevent it from happening again... years from now!


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed do you think your wife would be so accepting as you have been? Her actions indicate that she has little respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed do you think your wife would be so accepting as you have been? Her actions indicate that she has little respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


thats part of the problem, she has hung onto mistakes i have made, (never an A) and the problems we have been going through financially for quite a long period, she has also had to shoulder the burden of her parents helping us, none of this is an excuse for her behavior, but I think she has talked herself into the EA, I understand how it could happen given our situation, I just can't deal with sweeping it under the rug or deal with it later mentality.

she just told me contrary to what she had said earlier today that she would read up on what it takes to get through this, not sure where that fits in as she was clear earlier she had no intention, but now says thats not what she said. 

She is super stressed and probably depressed. not so much with our relationship as far as i can tell but with the situation we have been going through, today I thought about telling her we are going to separate until she decides she wants to deal with it, hopefully a wake up call to her, but our youngest son's birthday is in 3 days, and i can't do that to our kids at this point. I have taken off my ring today (i believe she noticed that) and have made myself mostly unavailable especially for bs.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm sure she noticed, that why she's back peddling on her earlier statements.
The indifference you are showing maybe getting her to think twice about healing the marriage, and excepting one of the consequences of her infidelity(owning it and facing it).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> and she wants to go back to get rid of anything that she had saved between them, she has already done that here where we are.


I did not understand this part. What did she save and why does she need to go back to get rid of them?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

q4truth said:


> Hi
> 
> I recently discovered my wife has been having and emotional affair for about a year, she has downplayed the significance of this, and only has admitted things if i drag them out of her, she said from the beginning it was only a friend, but yesterday i she admitted that maybe they fell in love with each other but never said it. the one msg log i found it was evident that they did admit it, he saying i love you and she responding me too. she said that it was just in a friendship way but prior in the conversation he said he would be dreaming of her, which to me is not in a just friendship.
> 
> ...


You really need to see what she is trying to hide. That and the privacy things point to the fact that there is way more going on. She's desperate to cover something up.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> I did not understand this part. What did she save and why does she need to go back to get rid of them?


She had saved any contact or correspondence, chat logs, emails etc to a flash drive she had her with us, that way i wouldn't find it on her computer, she said that drive was erased and given to her mother, i have not seen it since.

I had found a very inappropriate conversation on her facebook chat, that was the second give away, the first was when i accidentally found her asking friends on facebook what to buy as a present for a good friend (this question was blocked from my account and i only found it as a friend of mine wanted to share a post of hers that he had seen on my computer and couldn't find the post, so as i was looking through her account on his phone i came across it.

the things she wants to travel to dispose of from what i gather is another flash drive and perhaps some letters.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I suggest you get those items and verify exactly what she is hiding. If you want honesty then she had best start by letting you read what she said and what plans she made with this guy .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Obviously, she is ambivalent about her M at this point, but OM is overseas and therefore, she is not sure that this relationship can evolve to anything real either. So, she is fencesitting now, and her family is semi-condoning this relationship with OM. 

You have to push her hard to make the decision. She will probably try to continue some kind of communication with OM to keep that option open till she is sure what to do.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Keylogger time ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> Obviously, she is ambivalent about her M at this point, but OM is overseas and therefore, she is not sure that this relationship can evolve to anything real either. So, she is fencesitting now, and her family is semi-condoning this relationship with OM.
> 
> You have to push her hard to make the decision. She will probably try to continue some kind of communication with OM to keep that option open till she is sure what to do.


I agree with you that I think I will have to push hard, and that there may be some communication ongoing, she is playing dumb as to technology and what she says she knows, but her having figured out to block the OM on my facebook acct? well i wouldn't have thought of that and I am very tech savy.

I don't think she is ambivelent about the M, but i don't think she grasps the gravity or wants to take responsibility for the EA, in EVERYTHING that I have read, the most successful reconciliations come with full disclosure and transparency, I already told her not knowing makes my mind wander to the worst possible scenarios, is this the only guy? how long has this been going on (with the OM in question i'm pretty sure i know as just after first contact she asked if would be ok for him to send cd's that weren't available where we were, she was very open at that time) but i told her my mind could wander to are the kids mine? everyone here knows full well what happens.

as for her parents, the did not condone it at all, they said they were ashamed of her and wanted to know that it was over. They told me I have to accept she is telling the truth and move on, they are old school, Latin and do not speak English well, but are very proper. they considered me trying to get her to full disclosure or finding things for myself were harassing her, her father threatened on 2 occasions to call the police, so now i am in limbo...


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

i'm sure this has been posted somewhere before but i just came across it, to me it makes perfect sense, has anyone tried anything like this and what were the results?

Joseph's Letter


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

methinks u r obsessed with finding the truth, for truths sake; this is good/ok, tho' some purists would argue u should be primarily motivated by saving your marriage for both yer sakes.

i think, u hint at being desperate to keep yer W and what u had
once upon a time. faaaahhhggeeeeetttaaaabout it, THATS gone, long gone, was gone before u knew about it.

u r not alone. look around this site. theres "bodies" everywhere, dead/wounded/"in the line of fire"/suspicious-skeptics/& accidents waiting to happen but dont know it yet.

i think u need to stop entertaining yerself (and us) by preparing
an exit strategy instead of obsessing on how much intel u can gather (to do what exactly?) on what seems perfectly clear:

Yer W has been (for some time longer than u know, perhaps more episodes or men u dont know....sorry...but "man up" mon)
looking elsewhere for "love needs"/financial security etc, and
may or may not stop at nothing to achieve it, covertly or overtly.

methinks u need this cold slap in the face even tho' i pray 
the best for yer future marr'd life together; for it seems the 
way u write u r in some degree of denial as well as obsession.

i could understand the obsession if what u found was ambiguous, cloudy, etc, but c'mon....its clear n stinky as
dogshat on yer shoes now treking into yer home. ya digg me/feel me yet?

i dont get her parents unless theres something u r not telling us
specifically about u and how u relate to them; then again, u know what they say about blood thicker than water, right?

wtf do u need to care bout what they think!? u need to treat them as lawyers say,"hostile witnesses" to the crime of infidelity yer W has perp'd on you. leave them out, as u dont
need to fight two or more fronts in a war u r currently battling
with NOT flesh n blood but, prinicpalities n powers (spirit realm).

read around TAM; do yer homework. u'll save alot of time n energy as well as saving us & u from pages n pages of repetitive childs play we've all seen too often here before. we wanna help but come
on, do some legwork here to save yer leg work out there (in the real
world, comprende?)

praying "the fog" leaves her & OM soon, real soooooon.

shalom


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

thanks cb45....quite eloquent, 

no i am not obsessed about finding the truth, like most people here i love my wife deeply and my family and would like to be able to salvage that if at all possible, disclosure is one of the main steps to my healing and from what i understand the other option is the trickle truth which will at best delay any proper reconciliation or destroy any chance.

your comment that i am desperate to keep my W to what was before is also way off the mark, I am fully aware there is no going back, but as i told her this can make us stronger if we deal with it correctly.

as for what do i care what her parents think, normally i could care less unless that was to put stress on my wife, but in the current situation we are living with them until we can get settled, makes things a little more complicated.

if everything was cut and dry and i thought my wife didn't love me i wouldn't be here, its trying to find the best way through this mess as what most people seem to be doing here.

I have been reading around this board as well as many other sites, thank you for your input but very little is of use


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

q4truth said:


> She had saved any contact or correspondence, chat logs, emails etc to a flash drive she had her with us, that way i wouldn't find it on her computer, she said that drive was erased and given to her mother, i have not seen it since.
> 
> I had found a very inappropriate conversation on her facebook chat, that was the second give away, the first was when i accidentally found her asking friends on facebook what to buy as a present for a good friend (this question was blocked from my account and i only found it as a friend of mine wanted to share a post of hers that he had seen on my computer and couldn't find the post, so as i was looking through her account on his phone i came across it.
> 
> the things she wants to travel to dispose of from what i gather is another flash drive and perhaps some letters.


 What kind of evidence would require an overseas trip? Sex tapes?I think this is going to end up ugly. How can she try to R without honesty?


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

warlock, you misunderstood, we have moved and have to have our things sent to where we are now, its not overseas, but it makes wary, she says the details the i miss you's etc will just hurt me, she doesn't get it....or it is something terrible, who knows thats why i'm here


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

chapparal said:


> [


:scratchhead:


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

Well hopefully it looks like things are looking up.

I shared a modified version of the letter (link above) that i found on another site along with a barrage of links on how to properly get through this and she changed her tune, we are going together to close the sale on our house and at that time, we will ensure she doesn't destroy what she kept there regarding the EA and we will give it to a MC and she will respect their decision as to the need to disclose.

I have made it perfectly clear, if it come to light that this is not over, or if it happens again, I will be gone so quick she won't have a clue what hit her. 

The truly positive thing about this, is that she has agreed to counseling, I have suggested it many times in the past and she just blew it off. Now this is one of my terms....non negotiable!


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Counseling is only a step but not a cure and not a way of showing remorse. Alot of cheaters go just to shut the other spouse up and stop riding their backs. Ok, I'll do counseling, and then dead silence during sessions or just attacking the LS as the cause of the problems.

She shows zero remorse and wants to give zero transparency. You're screwed, she's got worse things to hide and you're gonna bury your head in the sand on this one.

Well, I hope you both the best and really hope it works out but it you never fix the problem the 1st time, you'll be back.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> Counseling is only a step but not a cure and not a way of showing remorse. Alot of cheaters go just to shut the other spouse up and stop riding their backs. Ok, I'll do counseling, and then dead silence during sessions or just attacking the LS as the cause of the problems.
> 
> She shows zero remorse and wants to give zero transparency. You're screwed, she's got worse things to hide and you're gonna bury your head in the sand on this one.


Agreed, she has showed some remorse, and some transparency,
definately not going to bury my head in the sand.

I do NEED OPINIONS from the people who have been on this board for a time.

My wife continues to say that the cause of her infidelity and all of our problems is financial, that as soon as things get on track that all our problems will be solved as she says it is our arguing about money issues and the pressure from her parents helping us, that is the root of everything, (her being lonely as we only argued about money).

To me, this is a load of crap, it may have been a contributing factor but i believe more so her not wanting to deal with past issues and resentments have lead to a lack of respect, that coupled with shear selfishness on her part put her in a place where she allowed herself to partake in the EA.

from what i have read, not once have i found the reason for an affair, emotional or physical to be financial, if you have read or experienced otherwise please let me know.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah it's BS. So she says she cheated because you have financial problems? Maybe she should have asked for some $ then from the AP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

yeah, it's only a valid excuse if she was charging him


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I guess in some ways you could say my husband's affair had a financial element making him vulnerable. He felt disconnected in our financial goals as a couple, he felt depressed that he hadn't achieved the financial freedom yet he had always dreamed of, and the fact I wasn't working (although we agreed I'd stay home for one more year) built up a lot of resentment in him. 

So yes, finances made him weak to the fantasy of what the OW offered. She was a career woman working full time, she stroked his ego, and she agreed with all his financial "goals". Of course he fell for the fantasy. He choose to ignore that if we got divorced the financial blow would take him further from his financial goals. He ignored the fact the OW wanted him to "take care of her" so she had no intention of keeping her job if they got together. Of course the OW wanted his "financial dream" because in the dark corner of a bar, it was a great dream. But in reality, it never could've happened.

It's why affairs are so addicting to the WS. The AP let's the WS dream the dream, encourage the fantasy, and never rains on their parade. As the LS, we're sitting at home giving daily doses of reality and make the WS more depressed about their own perceived failures in life. They start to see the LS as the cause and obstacle to their dreams.

Fundamentally, it's still a problem within the WS to make the poor decision to cheat. Many people have financial difficulty or disagreements and remain faithful. In my opinion, the money is just a reflection of the WS personal issues . . like selfishness, greed, ego, insecurity, etc. 

Your wife seems to be saying that if there aren't financial issues, then she wouldn't have and wouldn't cheat. Maybe true, but what if you have financial problems again? All the financial problem did was bring to light and help manifest problematic issues within your wife. Being faithful should not be dependent on your finances, if money problems make someone want to stray, there's a reason behind it. It could be from insecurity issues in childhood or selfishness and always wanting more or the need to escape their problems by living a fantasy or in many cases, all of the above.

Yes, finances can be a reason a WS justifies the affair, but it's just another factor in a long list of problems. The WS still needs to look inside themselves and understand why the finances made them susceptible. Marriage is supposed to be in good times and bad, there will be bad times again. So the issue as to why she felt the need to stray during tough times must be addressed or she will be weak to an affair again.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't think you are ever an idiot to try but you need to know when to cut your losses, so to speak. A marriage takes two and if she's not willing to be completely open about anything and everything with you, then you maybe should consider steppinhg out at least until she would become completely transparent with you.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

good, i think i'm on the right page, its tough as i'm concerned about the amount of stress she puts herself under, i think deep down she knows what needs to be done, and i even think she really wants to, but as they say we humans try to avoid pain and i don't think she can see the long term gain in the short term pain.
I hope it doesn't take something drastic (give her a breakdown which would just complicate issues) but she does need to open up, Saffron may be right on the money with her issues, she had someone who cheated on her that did major damage, and i don't think she has ever truly dealt with it to allow herself to trust, even me who has always had her well being and happiness in mind.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

IF the financial situation is the "Root of all evil" in this, perhaps you should just tell her that divorce is the easiest remedy to that. Split all the debt and assets in half and move on. 

Not saying this should be your final solution but plantijng that bug may either wake her up to the reality of the situation and make her actually WORK t fixing her mistake or it may reveal that she is not serious about the marriage.

Q~


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks MrQuatto,

see thats one of the many things that has me torn, i told her, just take it all and i'll walk away, which is not insignificant as we just sold our house.

i was just thinking tonight how ironic things are, i remember back a couple of years ago, i had first signed up for a facebook account and she freaked, had me cancel it. which i did because it didn't really matter, then some months later, one of her old school friends talked her into getting on FB....and she ended up doing what she was so afraid that i would do


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

ok, need to keep on course

I have tried the 180 and it seems to have an affect, she is willing to go to counselling but we need to get out of my in-laws as it is an extremely dysfunctional relationship they have with my wife. I have been concerned about her having a breakdown or worse as she has mentioned suicide in the past, prior to discovery and possibly partially as an effect of the guilt.
did contact the OM, seems like an indiot so i'm not sure what effect that will have on my future respect for her, he says "just friends" when she has admitted it became more than that,
we are returning home to close the sale of the house, she has agreed to seal whatever is there until we see a MC

she keeps saying she needs to know that i'm not going to leave her and i have responded if she is willing to do what it takes to fix things then that should not be a worry,

my new question is in relation to the 180 rules, our anniversary is coming shortly, do i just ignore this? as far as gifts go?
i have been doing my best to follow the rules but not sure about this one, 

also I have made it clear that things are now different, and i'm not going to put up with crap or bad treatment just because she is soo stressed ( i have most likely been an enabler as she has been stressed for so long over our financial situation that i have tolerated a lot) I have made it clear it now angers me when this happens.
from everything i can tell there has been no contact.
she has apologized, shown remorse, not consistently but i have been trying not to bring it up.
am i on the right track? any words of wisdom?

sorry for the rambling but most of you should relate


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

*Re: between a rock and a hard place help!*

ok, hope i'm not just talking to myself as no one seems to be looking here anymore

just had a back and forth with my wife
have been trying to keep on the 180 as much as possible, tonight she was very upset with her parents and their dysfunction so i tried to be supportive in context, she said she is worried that we will be ok, and i told her if we can both work on it then it shouldn't be a problem, and she's like work on what? when our money situation gets better there will be no problem...i'm like no, we wouldn't be where we are if it was just money, as i said i have made what could be called mistakes (not infidelity) but there hasn't been much intimacy on her end for a long time, and a long time before that, so i have turned to porn at times and she didn't like that (funny after dday she tells me she has done the same, but the difference is she has used it as a wedge over the years and would make me feel guilty as it affected her self image etc.
now she claims thats not true, From the beginning i have been the more romantic of the two of us, i'm really beginning to wonder if there is some deep dark secret such as abuse that she is hiding.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

One of the mistakes you've made is that you assured her that you're not going to leave her. And now she says work on what? Once she was sure that you're not going to leave her, she now thinks she can sweep it under the rug. 

Her justifications for cheating are exactly what you said, it's a bunch of crap. So the way to deal with stress is to cheat? How stupid is that? I'm sure you were stressed about the financial situation too, but you didn't think about cheating. What about the next stressful situation that comes up? Is she going to deal with that too by cheating again? No, her excuses are just that, excuses. She cheated because she wanted to.

Another thing I want to address is that you THINK there is NC. How do you know this? Have you verified this through keyloggers/computer monitoring software and VARs? You should never, ever trust the word of a wayward spouse just recently caught in affair, that they have NC. This has to be verified by you. And another thing, one of the APs, either your WW or the OM, will "fish" for renewed contact, the affair addiction is THAT strong.

And yet another thing, you say your WW is remorseful. Um..just saying sorry is not being remorseful. That could just be guilt that she was caught. True remorse is showing compassion for your hurt. You should be able to bring things up about the affair without her being defensive or hiding things. Look at this chart that I found on another site. It's a good guide that shows the difference between true remorse, and rug sweeping, which is what you and your WW are trying to do. If she's not totally in the left column, then she's not remorseful and trying to rug sweep. You should be able to discuss the affair with her any time you want except for an argument about an unrelated matter.










But first, you need to VERIFY that the affair is indeed over, or if she's taken it underground.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

Thanks LM

I think i came to some of this realization this morning

I am going to tell her we going to separate.
I come from a home that fought all the time and i know my father stayed thinking it was better that i had a mother but i wish he hadn't remarried in the first place, so as i have read on here somewhere, if you take the children out of the equation, would you do the same? no, i made that clear when we got married that if i had a reason to be jealous, that was reason enough to leave (i am not a jealous person, but i have had people cheat on me before and i know the signs)

as for no contact, its about 99% that there is no contact, I finally got in contact with the OM when i promised her i wouldn't (just to torment him) he used facebook to prey on my wife and promotes the company he works for that is a multinational family oriented company and mentioned that they probably wouldn't look favourably on homewreckers being associated with them, had his bosses number withing 24hrs of DD, she said he is married but he does not have a wife listed on his profile and the women who appear in his pictures to be family are also not on his profile, so not able to notify the wife. i digress, knowing my wife, if she knew i had contacted she would have flipped and as she always says "flipped the tortilla" that i was terrible for breaking that promise, and that hasn't happened. 
But instead of reassuring me, transparency and full disclosure, her computer is locked as her mother instructed, she added email to her phone, which she previously said she had no need for, i checked her phone and it appears that she has also added msn and FB, and clears the browser history and possibly deletes calls or texts. i have no way of knowing the latter as BB's are harder

as the computer is locked keyloggers are not an option

we have kids screaming and playing so VAR is not going to be too effective either, i do have one that i used for recording phone calls with people i didn't trust or needed a backup.

wish me luck, just have to keep the anger out of it,


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

q4truth said:


> as for no contact, its about 99% that there is no contact,
> 
> _snip_
> 
> ...




I don't see how you can be 99% sure

let's see...

no real way of seeing if she's NC
no transparency
no remorse


time to show consequences-

1) if you can't find wife then expose to his work place
2) show her D papers and not separation- separation will essentially tell her, "go have your affair since we are separated, use shared finances to do so and maybe we'll get back together when you're done"


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sorry that MIL is enabling her daughter's affair. 

AR is right, there's no way to verify NC. If she's locking all her stuff up, then there's a reason for it. Sending you strength and wishing you luck.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

You are not listening to what your wife is really saying. She and her family are all about money. They value people according to their financial situation. It sounds to me like the OM has money and that her mother is encouraging the relationship with the OM because of it. You need to get out of that house ASAP.

Also, the EA is still on, that is the only reason for her locking her computer and moving everything to her locked phone. Tell her that full transparency is a requirement for you to continue in the marriage. She needs to give you full access. There is no reason for married people not to do this even without an EA in the picture, but with one it makes even more sense. Tell her that this is non-negotiable and that you will walk if she does not agree.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Much agreed - separation only makes sense in Divorce. Divorce papers. She moves out - not you. She's the cheater. She moves out on her dime, or she meets all of your conditions for continued marriage. 

Sounds like you aren't afraid anymore. You, sir, now have the power. Bust the OM at his work. Your wife want to get upset about a little promise to NOT bust him? Oh shucks, too bad! She broke a BIG promise of faith and fidelity to you before others and God. 

Strike while the iron is hot!

Good luck!


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Sorry that MIL is enabling her daughter's affair.
> 
> AR is right, there's no way to verify NC. If she's locking all her stuff up, then there's a reason for it. Sending you strength and wishing you luck.


I don't think that MIL is purposely enabling her daughter, they are very traditional old school latin (they have told my wife they are ashamed of her and i could tell they meant it) but they are very dysfuntional, the father had an affair that almost destroyed the mother years ago.

They seem to think that as it was an online EA with someone overseas that it is just fantasy and take my wife's word that it is over, so i should just get over it.

I just sent her the chart you posted this morning, which i had saved previously with the subject "which side are you on"

after dday i was losing it and sifting through everything i could find as she wouldn't come clean so thats why she says she did what her mother told her. huge red flag i know and i don't know if its the script or the fog or the multitude of problems she lets drag her down.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

q4truth said:


> after dday i was losing it and sifting through everything i could find as she wouldn't come clean so thats why she says she did what her mother told her. huge red flag i know and i don't know if its the script or the fog or the multitude of problems she lets drag her down.


Damn right that's a red flag. Look at the totality of the situation. She claims her mother told her to lock up her stuff, plus she adds email to her cell phone, AND she installs chat/messaging apps on to her phone, which is of course locked from you. What would be the logical conclusion to this? If this wasnt your situation, what would you be telling someone else if they told you their wife did this after DDay?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

seriously, what good reason is there to add apps she would likely use to communicate with OM?


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Damn right that's a red flag. Look at the totality of the situation. She claims her mother told her to lock up her stuff, plus she adds email to her cell phone, AND she installs chat/messaging apps on to her phone, which is of course locked from you. What would be the logical conclusion to this? If this wasnt your situation, what would you be telling someone else if they told you their wife did this after DDay?


this part is not that cut and dry
its not a claim, we were fighting and her mother ordered her to change her password, i was there
the phone is not locked and she will pass it to me, but if she wanted to she can delete calls, texts etc
i do know she has deleted her browser history as i changed the settings as to not clear most information and the next time i checked, it was back to clearing almost everything.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

q4truth said:


> its not a claim, we were fighting and her mother ordered her to change her password, i was there


Since when does a mother have a right to do such a thing to an adult woman? Why did you allow her to? The MIL is toxic to your marriage and is empowering the affair.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

TRy said:


> You are not listening to what your wife is really saying. She and her family are all about money. They value people according to their financial situation. It sounds to me like the OM has money and that her mother is encouraging the relationship with the OM because of it. You need to get out of that house ASAP.
> 
> Also, the EA is still on, that is the only reason for her locking her computer and moving everything to her locked phone. Tell her that full transparency is a requirement for you to continue in the marriage. She needs to give you full access. There is no reason for married people not to do this even without an EA in the picture, but with one it makes even more sense. Tell her that this is non-negotiable and that you will walk if she does not agree.


TRy, its not about money, that is one factor, and for the most part i don't have a pot to pi** in right now,i got screwed by a business partner with huge resources who blackballed me and then won't acknowledge my 15 yrs of employment. Try getting a job, its like i'm an ex-con.
Her parents have been helping us for too long (so that we didn't loose the house and the kids were provided for.) the phone isn't locked but I know she needs the transparency for any chance.
To the best of my knowledge he has no money and it was more about him always being happy.(easy to do when you don't have to deal with day to day problems...and she admitted that.)

her parents are hypocrites, the pressure and stress they have put on her are the root of most of our problems. (couldn't sell the house and live at a lower means, its their way of controlling and punishing her for leaving i think.


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

TRy said:


> Since when does a mother have a right to do such a thing to an adult woman? Why did you allow her to? The MIL is toxic to your marriage and is empowering the affair.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## q4truth (Nov 4, 2011)

TRy said:


> Since when does a mother have a right to do such a thing to an adult woman? Why did you allow her to? The MIL is toxic to your marriage and is empowering the affair.


for the first time in our marriage, my wife has actually said as soon as we are out of here, she is cutting ties with them, and i never have to see them, I can tell them not to come, they are not welcome. :smthumbup:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

q - why is the computer locked? I'll tell you why, she still feels free to carry on. She isn't stopping, and she is daring you to do something about it.

you don't have transparency, in fact you have her adding new ways to carry on and doing in your face.

sorry, to say it, but this situation isn't improving it seems. It just seems like she's playing the cheating game in new ways.


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