# Help me break from codependency! Pretty please :)



## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

This thread is inspired by another member here who has helped me a ton so far in my recovery from codependency. Every night however seems to be a battle for me, I thought it would be a good idea to come here, post some examples of what is going on in my marriage, how I handled them, then you tell me what you would have done, and then I can see just how far I have come in my recovery. 

We will start with last night. Anyone who has read my previous posts knows that I am in a rather frustrating relationship. Wife could have (Borderline Personality Disorder) but has not been diagnosed because she will not take the initiative to go see a therapist, though she knows she needs help. 

My wife worked really late last night, which has been pretty common lately, however last night was different. I went through all day not talking to her, I used to text her throughout the day but have recently stopped doing that, since I stopped she has really not taken the initiative to text me, which does hurt honestly because it's nice to know every once in awhile she is thinking about me. So, all day we both are at work I hear nothing. My day comes to an end at 4:30pm and I am home by normally 5:30pm or so.

So I come home, begin cleaning the house and think why am I going to go through this and clean for her like I always do. So I decide to play some video games. Before I know it, it's 9:00 and I have not even heard from her. 

She texts me around 9:15 and says "Still at work", I reply "Sorry hun, see you soon." I lay down for bed and she comes home from work around 10:30pm and I am sleeping. Wake up this morning, she is getting ready to go back to work and I just said "morning", did my things and left for work. 

She texts me this morning and says "I love you, miss you" I said "I am just a text away" and that is the last I heard. 

So, how did I do?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I probably would have responded with a smiley and left it at that. Or a thank you would have sufficed.

It's not the words. It's the actions. Pay attention to her actions and you'll know for sure where her head/heart is at any given moment. And again... spend less time being in HER orbit and work on creating your own.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

My point in saying that was to get through to her that her words are meaningless to me without action. It may have been a bit harsh but I honestly have tried just about everything else. I understand what you mean though. Since I have responded I have not gotten anything back. 

She sensed that I was not happy this morning. She asked and I said "It's not that I am mad, just frustrated, I rarely see you, and when I do we are separate anyway"

So her text to me was (I believe) her telling me what I wanted to hear. She does that often when she feels like something is wrong, then once I start feeling close to her, she pulls away again. It's mentally exhausting me. 

I need to move my mind forward but I am such an analytical person I replay events in my head, think of what I could have done different, my mind wanders to who she might be talking to, what reasons she is not contacting me. 

I have been wanting this closeness from someone my whole life, I used to dream about it as a kid, being married to my best friend, how fun! I have not ever really gotten that from anyone in my life and I am now 30 years old... It's time for me to make me happy.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You have to get your emotions off your sleeve and become difficult to read. Muddy your water. She can read you like a book right now, and it doesn't work to your advantage, it ends up hurting you even more.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Mavash, thank you. I know I need to, A bit much has been helping me and has expressed the same exact type of thing. I really do need to leave for a few days and just show her I am not willing to take this crap anymore. She always tells me the reason why she does not text at work is because she is "busy". 

What person does not have like 30 secs to say a genuine I love you? 

About 2 months ago, and I completely forgot about this, but thought it was important to bring it up. My wife and I were out clothes shopping. I was starting to lose weight (when she mentioned the threesome stuff it scared the crap outta me and started to really get myself back in shape). We work like 2 miles from each other. I asked if we could go out to lunch sometime since we work so close to each other and said I would pick her up from work. She kinda grimaced a little and I asked what is wrong. In a nutshell she told me "I would feel more comfortable if you lost some weight before meeting my coworkers" then she proceeded to tell me how none of her coworkers comment on our pictures about me and how cute I was. 

I was completely floored when she said this. I had no idea how to take it, and I still hold major resentment for it. I must have completely blocked it out of my mind because I just remembered it a couple days back. What wife does this to her husband?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Is she having an Affair?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> You have to get your emotions off your sleeve and become difficult to read. Muddy your water. She can read you like a book right now, and it doesn't work to your advantage, it ends up hurting you even more.


It's been my largest issue, I have no idea how not to! Do I just try to hide all emotion and stay stone faced?

I think I do understand what I need to do. Just live my life as if she were not in it. Live it for me as opposed to her. It's so much easier said than done. 

I am going to look into a hotel or something and maybe stay till the weekend and then come home on the weekend and see how things are. 

I know how that will go though, I will leave and text her and let her know I need some time alone. She will either flip out completely like she did the last time I stayed with my parents and break and throw away all of our pictures, call me the worst names I have ever heard, and will just push me further away. That's what I struggle with, when it gets to this point, and she does know it. 

Gotta stick to my guns.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Is she having an Affair?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No she is not. I know that sounds completely ignorant of me to bluntly say that but I really really do not think she is, there are no signs of it. Her phone is wide open, have access to her apple find my iphone account and she is where she says she is. No reason to believe it, she never texts with anyone around me, never on the phone.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

YOU can't fix her. What you can do is continue to work on yourself, and the only way to do that is to keep the focus on getting yourself to a healthy state of mind. Obsessing over her is NOT healthy. She's not an object. She's a person completely seperate from you with feelings and wants and needs of her own.

If you think getting a room somewhere will help you then do it, but I honestly think you need to train yourself to be in the same space as her and NOT engage her. Practice makes perfect. Imagine yourself disengaging like she does. You have to keep her at a distance. You have to not worry about being mean, it's not mean to establish boundaries or protect yourself from hurt. How could it be? You're not any less important than she is.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

What things did you do before she came along in your life?
Do some hobbies you enjoy and stop coming across so needy 
her.Does she always work so late?If so it dosen't sound like
you two have much time to have a healthy relationship.
Most healthy relationships give each other some space.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

I think that's where I get things crossed up. I am ok with being alone, I am fine with doing things in my own, that has never been an issue. The thing I struggle with is that I am in a marriage, it is her responsibility to meet these very basic needs. 

I do not think that I am coming across as "needy" more like I expect the basic emotions of love from my wife, and when I don't get that I get upset.

I understand living life for me and not making her my orbiting moon but at what point does it become two people living together who have sex occasionally?

I don't need her to text me, I don't need her to want me, I don't need her to desire me but if she doesn't show it then when does this marriage just become a marriage without true love? 

I seem to be expecting the very basic here. I feel that if I felt like she was trying even a little I would see that and not be so over critical of these other things.

But because it feels like everything in my marriage is missing it makes me feel empty and lonely, I got married to spend my time with the woman I love, I understand she needs space and I give that to her but when you give and give and give you expect even just a little back and when you don't get it, this is what happens.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't think you should bottle up your emotions. Express them directly in a few words then let it go. When she gives excuses just repeat what you've said and walk away. For instsance " I feel disrespected when you work late and I'm not told." That was really rude of her. She needs to be told. If she does it again add a consequence. Tell her how you feel again and say if it happens again don't expect me to be here when you get home....or whatever consequence you want to give. This will have more impact rather than just texting her that you need space when you have said nothing about her behavior and just acted mad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Your response to her text tells her everything is ok. She got the desired response. You are telling her its ok to treat you badly as long as she throws you a bone all will be well.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I'm going to argue with you. It's YOUR responsibility to get your needs met. Your life is YOUR responsibility.
> 
> Here is an extreme example. Lets say I'm in an abusive marriage. He yells and hits me. I come on here and say hey it's his responsibility to meet my basic needs. Sounds good right? Problem is he can't/won't. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
> 
> ...


I see, I understand what you mean by this. I was assuming if I was to stay in the relationship. You are right I have allowed it, the issue for me is letting go. I love her, I want this to work, I am trying, but she is not, or it doesn't seem like it, she says she does try and when I ask "What is it that you think you have done to meet these needs I am asking for" she cannot come up with a single thing and just says "You know the times I do it". 

So what you are saying is basically, if my needs are not being met by her it is my responsibility to either take it or leave. I understand that I cannot control her and I really do not want to, I just want peace, love, and a best friend, a real best friend not someone who just says they are to make me happy then calls me fat to my face and tells me they are ashamed of me. 

In a normal relationship I would be getting that, but because I am in a broken relationship with a broken person she is just not capable.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

I am aware of the middle areas and the inbetweens, I guess I have been there "in the middle" for years now. I have been dealing with this for far to long to be honest and right now I am just wanting to be with someone like me, who loves me, who wants to talk to me, text me, make love to me, etc. 

I think that staying away for a few nights at this point is the best thing to do, and if she reacts angry then that further cements the fact that she is not mature enough to be with me. 

Thanks you guys for all your help, I know you may have better things to do and appreciate you taking time to give me (a complete stranger) the advice you have. I really appreciate it. 

I am just so tired, worn down, and flat off exausted of trying to repair (codependent) this marriage. If I am going to be married I want to be close with my spouse, not this, so there is literally no point for me to stay in this anymore. Time to move on.... now I just need to gather the courage and balls to actually do it, I did it once before with her and I can do it again.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Hang on.. I haven't read all your posts besides this thread, but just a couple of observations on the situation you described:

If she texts you "I miss you, I love you"; and you respond with "I'm just a text away"-- it can come across that the text she did send was a disappointment to you. "I'm just a text away" translated= "why didn't you text sooner??" Keep in mind that you hadn't spoken to her all this time either. She made the first contact. When she does put in effort, maybe be more encouraging. If there's something you want and she's not doing it, be direct in asking her for it. It doesn't sound like you ever asked her specifically for what you wanted, but maybe you have already tried that in the past.

The comment about losing weight was uncalled for in my opinion too, but some people are just blunt like that and think they're being good by being brutally honest. Next time, I'd strongly suggest firing back with something equally questionable, yet honest. You don't need to be vicious, but if you don't want to keep hearing that kind of thing, fire back.

I'm guessing you've tried many approaches already, but those are my two cents.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi Pravius,

You did great with leaving the martyr behind!

Did you clean because YOU WANTED a clean house or because you wanted her love?

Did you play video games because that is what you wanted to do or because you wanted to "show her" that you are not her doormat?

You stopped yourself from texting her Bravo! Well done!

Your reply to her text was, I think, another cry for more shows of affection from her. Keeping in mind, she can probably read between the lines from you better than you can, was your intent to encourage more communication or to acknowledge what she gave? 

As you leave behind martyrdom you are facing your level of need for emotional connection and how that gels with her propensity/ability to give said connection. From her, you want a constant or consistent show of affection, you are willing to give the same to her. But understanding you can't control someone while advocating for what you want is a tricky balance. 

This is why you really need to find yourself. Rediscover who you are and what you're made of outside of this relationship. As you work on you (gee how often does that phrase pop up?) your level of need for her to behave a certain way will decrease.

What are some activities you can engage in that interest you? Classes, sports, arts, music...? Check your local paper for these types of activities and GO.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Anabel said:


> Hang on.. I haven't read all your posts besides this thread, but just a couple of observations on the situation you described:
> 
> If she texts you "I miss you, I love you"; and you respond with "I'm just a text away"-- it can come across that the text she did send was a disappointment to you. "I'm just a text away" translated= "why didn't you text sooner??" Keep in mind that you hadn't spoken to her all this time either. She made the first contact. When she does put in effort, maybe be more encouraging. If there's something you want and she's not doing it, be direct in asking her for it. It doesn't sound like you ever asked her specifically for what you wanted, but maybe you have already tried that in the past.
> 
> ...


Anabel, 

Yes I have been through this before. I have made it incredibly clear what my expectations are of her. In fact just on Sunday we had a long conversation about my needs in this marriage and her not meeting them. She assured me on Sunday that things would be different, I am still waiting. 

Your right about my text to her, it was a bit passive aggresive, that's just my frustration. I think the reason she sent that text was because she was trying to say what I wanted to hear, not because of her feelings (her actions speak louder than her words, and her actions have not told me that she misses me). 

So my response to her was me indirectly saying, if you really mean what you say then show me. The fact that I still have not gotten a single word from her today speaks volumes to me.

I do not want to give anyone the wrong understanding, I know I sound like a whiney needy biatch! If I felt her love in other area like when she was around me, I would not even care about a text message. The point is, I have been STARVING for this love that she is just not giving me, so I seek it in literally every way, anything I can get feels amazing to me. This is just something that I will do for her and I do not even think about it, it's just in my nature. 

These are some of the things I have asked her for, just to give you guys an example so you get the full story. 

- A note when you leave in the morning. 
- A text showing me you are thinking about me. 
- Initate sex more often and do not make it feel forced and fake. 
- Try to take more control in the bedroom, (super lame sex life, missionary is about the kinkiest she knows) 
- I have to ask for this stuff which makes me seem super critical of her, do not make me have to ask!
-Anytime I ask for a massage, scratch, she tells me she will work overtime and buy me a massage. 
- She is married to work, up at 4:30am not home till 8-10pm, she has not made an effort to change this, which makes me think its more important then me. 
- Hug and kiss me, hold and touch me, unless I initiate physical contact, it just does not happen. 
- Lift me up when I feel down, instead of shoving me down further. 

She knows I have always had a self image issue with my weight. I am not fat either, just have always tended to carry a few extra pounds. At my heaviest I was 260 and 5'10... I am a stocky dude naturally, I had a gut, but I was not some major fattie. I have had these issues since shildhood where I would battle with weight loss and she knows it, so to say that... that's almost as bad to me as saying your penis is small, which she has made a point to tell me that some of her ex's have been more well endowed than me. 

I am just so tired of being humilated by my wife, no one should ever have to take that from the one person in this life that is supposed to be closer to you, understand you more, than anyone else in this world. I want a women who is proud to be with me, someone who supports me, and someone who genuinely loves me and is able to show that the way I need.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Pravius, I wanted to post a quick note to tell you that I have been going on the same journey you seem to be on... I started mine about 4 years ago. 

I can tell you that after all this time, by visiting TAM, going to IC, etc., I really feel like I'm a changed person. I think you will too if you keep at it. I look at some of my older posts and think, "Wow, was that really me?"

In a way that you can't see right now (and I couldn't either when I was at that point), your posts are still heavily angled to what she's thinking and doing. That will fade over time and it will be replaced by a voice that is more stand-alone, and more observant. Instead of saying things like, "I'm so tired, I want a woman that loves me.", it will get replaced by a calmer, more assured voice that will say, "I deserve a relationship with a woman who loves me. This is how I think I should go get that."

Maybe not explaining it perfectly, but keep at it. There's a lot to look forward to on the other side.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Pravius the more you describe her the more disgusted I get. She's not the girl for you. No way no how.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I agree with a bit much in that from what I have read your wifes attitude and behavior toward you is disgusting. I also see you have not been able to assert yourself, specifically your boundaries although you have made your feelings known and have attempted to assert yourself for years.. she knows full well what you want/need. She also knows she can get away with not giving those things. You seem to be coming to the end of the rope, that's good. You are very aware of your problem but understandably have difficulty changing your behavior. You need help making this transition. More help than a forum can give you imho. The point I want to make whether you stay or leave is that you have not learned yet to stand up for yourself. if you don't ge IC you a very likely to take these behaviors into your next relationship. You seem like a good man with much to offer and you deserve someone who will appreciate all you have to give.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I feel like I started a novel on page 100.

What's the problem here again? Both my wife and I work. We routinely, as in almost every day, go 11 hours without exchanging a single word, real or texted. If I have to work overtime, I let her know. If my arrival time is unexpected, I MIGHT send a message saying I'm on my way, but I might not. 

Absolutely everything I read in the original post on this topic, and I haven't read the others, sounded to me like a perfectly normal day in my life. 

I guess I'm not clear on what's bothering you about this.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Cletus, you and I are just incredibly different people with different goals and objectives in our intimate lives. You may be ok with some if the things I have listed, I however am not.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Pravius said:


> Cletus, you and I are just incredibly different people with different goals and objectives in our intimate lives. You may be ok with some if the things I have listed, I however am not.


Ummm, ok, fine. I was legitimately confused. 

I feel like you're a little bent at me for asking. I can't imagine our goals for our intimate lives are all that different.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Ummm, ok, fine. I was legitimately confused.
> 
> I feel like you're a little bent at me for asking. I can't imagine our goals for our intimate lives are all that different.


Not bent at all. I just do not see the point of coming onto a thread where someone is asking for help breaking a behavior they have been in their whole lives, and basically saying

"Well, this is how I live, what's the problem?"

My posts explain my situation and while I cannot expect you to read through my very long posts, I would hope that you would have gathered the information necessary to make a helpful post.

It maybe what you accept, but it's not what I accept. That's what makes us individuals and one of the coolest things about being a human being. We are so similar but our brains make us so different.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

I think I did a bit better last night and this morning. Last night she came home a bit earlier than the night before which was nice, but she seemed to read my detachment quickly. She walked in around 8:30p, I was watching "Zero Hour" (love that show) and she came and sat next to me on the couch and started kissing me, I recriprocated and hugged her she said "I love you", I said "I love you too". Then she asked "Are you watching this?" I said "Yea" and she went to eat and she said she was going to take a bath. 

It's now about 9:30p and she is eating dinner and I let her know I was tired and needed to go lay down, but I let her know I will be watching TV for a bit before I go to sleep in bed. (I told her that incase she wanted to come in with me, initiate, cuddle, etc). I went to go lay down in bed and about 30 min later she joined me. 

It's now around 10:15p and I am tired she is spooning me which was nice, I would occasionally reach around and rub her leg, and held her hand, I was hoping she would take it a little further, but I ended up just falling asleep around 10:45p while she was spooning me. 

Woke up this morning, we did not say much, I am trying to get her to initiate conversation. The more I do this, the more I realize how much I actually do initiate just about everything. Conversation, physical contact, just about every interaction I seem to start and I never realize how bad it gotten. 

Anyway, I finish all my stuff, tell her I love her and I will see her later, and she says "Hun, you are not yourself, do you want a divorce?" I said "Not yet, you know what I want, what I need, I love you" and walked out and drove to work. 

The last part I really did not analyze before I said it to be honest so I hope it did not come across as mean or angry but I want her to know that I am not happy and this is the last straw for her, and she is not going to control me anymore. 

So, how did I do last night?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

If Mrs. Pravius were here, I bet she'd write this:

_The other night I could tell P was ticked off that I got home so late, so I came home earlier. He wants me to initiate more, so I initiated kissing and I said 'I love you' first. He seemed distant. I asked him if he was watching TV, and he said yes, so rather than tick him off and disturb him, I found some other things to do.

He came back an hour later and said that he was going to bed but before he did that, he wants to watch TV. So, I gave him a little time to watch TV (I did not want to intrude...I figure he must have said that so that I would not interrupt his show), and then I initiated some intimacy by spooning him. He seemed rather cold... he held my hand and drifted off to sleep, even though I was completely available to him._

I am not trying to say that I take your wife's side in any of this, but there was no way she could win last night and I bet her blunt and awkward "Do you want a divorce?" stemmed from that.

In other words, you seem to want her to initiate things, but last night by your own admission she initiated every interaction and yet you are not satisfied. You may need to resolve this in your head - what do you really want?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Pravius said:


> Not bent at all. I just do not see the point of coming onto a thread where someone is asking for help breaking a behavior they have been in their whole lives, and basically saying
> 
> "Well, this is how I live, what's the problem?"
> 
> ...


After reading the introductory post, I actually did not understand what you were upset about. I thought I conveyed that in my response. When you describe what is to me a perfectly normal day as some sort of relationship failure, I have to infer what the issue is beyond my own experience. I can guess, or I can ask. Apparently I chose poorly.

At this point, I'm not sure I care to understand, though I'm starting to gain some sympathy I might not otherwise have had for your wife.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Acorn said:


> If Mrs. Pravius were here, I bet she'd write this:
> 
> _The other night I could tell P was ticked off that I got home so late, so I came home earlier. He wants me to initiate more, so I initiated kissing and I said 'I love you' first. He seemed distant. I asked him if he was watching TV, and he said yes, so rather than tick him off and disturb him, I found some other things to do._
> 
> ...


I had a feeling something like this was coming. Yes, I can see your point, but I think you may have missed mine completely. I acknowledged her doing this for me, and I made sure she could feel that I do appreciate what she is doing. The point is, when she feel threatened she will normally always give me exactly what I am asking for, once I start feeling better about things she pulls away again leaving the whole cycle to be repeated. 

Yes, I love when this attention is given, hoewever, it is only conditional and is only done to meet her agenda, it is not done out of love but rather out of fear of abandonment, then once that fear goes away, I am stuck feeling empty and lonely again. 

I know it is hard to understand but unless you are BPD and understand the traits, or are living in a situation like this, it's hard to completely grasp.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Cletus said:


> After reading the introductory post, I actually did not understand what you were upset about. I thought I conveyed that in my response. When you describe what is to me a perfectly normal day as some sort of relationship failure, I have to infer what the issue is beyond my own experience. I can guess, or I can ask. Apparently I chose poorly.
> 
> At this point, I'm not sure I care to understand, though I'm starting to gain some sympathy I might not otherwise have had for your wife.


It really kinda just goes back to what we heard as kids so often, at least I did. "If you don't have anything nice to say do not say it at all."


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

If my husband told me I was too fat to meet his co-workers, my fat ass would be visiting a lawyer.

Seriously.

I don't know your entire story on this forum but from this thread your wife sounds emotionally & verbally abusive. I accept no excuses for this behavior NOW. BPD, bipolar, bad childhood, etc., etc. be damned.

I lived with it for it 22 yrs. with Husband Numero Uno...not as a "victim" but as a "volunteer" because I was free in reality to leave anytime & yes I loved him like you love your wife.

When I finally figured out the love shouldn't hurt, I got a divorce.

Currently married to a non-abusive man & celebrating out 2 yr. anniversary today 

BTW - I am not a fat-ass.......


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Pravius said:


> It really kinda just goes back to what we heard as kids so often, at least I did. "If you don't have anything nice to say do not say it at all."


Ok, deep breath. 

You're not getting it. I didn't understand your point and I asked for clarification. I didn't say anything mean, disparaging, hurtful, or spiteful in my reply. YOU got offended where no offense was implied or intended. I tried to get more information to understand the problem, and you reacted like I'd punched you in the nose. 

I just went back and re-read my response. Yup. I see me explaining that I feel confused, which I did, that you just described what I consider a normal day, and then a question for clarification.

WTF? Do you want to have a conversation about this with people from varying backgrounds and experiences or not? Are you willing to entertain the notion that your problem might not have been obvious to some of us who have no experience with your frustrations from the words you posted?


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Ok, deep breath.
> 
> You're not getting it. I didn't understand your point and I asked for clarification. I didn't say anything mean, disparaging, hurtful, or spiteful in my reply. YOU got offended where no offense was implied or intended. I tried to get more information to understand the problem, and you reacted like I'd punched you in the nose.
> 
> ...


I would love insight from all people with all different experiences. I understand that some people may not know my story, but honestly, if you wanted more clarification, look at my previous posts. I am simply saying that if you want to help that is fantastic and I appreciate it, if not, that's ok too. 

I just did not see a point in saying "This is how my life is, I do not see an issue", what were you trying to achieve when you asked that? What information were you looking for that I have not shared? If you took a minute and looked at my previous posts you would have found all your answers.

I am not offended, just do not think that what you said helped in any way. I am here for help, not to argue. Now let's just move on, and drop this, eh?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Pravius said:


> Yes, I can see your point, but I think you may have missed mine completely. I acknowledged her doing this for me, and I made sure she could feel that I do appreciate what she is doing. The point is, when she feel threatened she will normally always give me exactly what I am asking for, once I start feeling better about things she pulls away again leaving the whole cycle to be repeated.


I don't think you are seeing my point at all.

You are telling me that when you pull away, she does what you want. Guess what? Last night you pulled away, and she did what you wanted. You have proven the status quo. Congratulations.

What do you want?

Is it the right thing for you to forgive your wife of the past, and try to make it work? If it is, she deserves at least a token effort on your end too. Get off your butt and turn the TV off, for crying out loud. Getting over codependency does not equate to sitting on a couch or lying in bed like a dead fish waiting for your wife to act out your every wish. You actually have to participate. 

Is it the right thing for you to do to accept that your wife is abusive and the dynamic will never change? If it is, stop worrying about what she's doing and focus on you. Part of that is stopping your expectations of her. Once you make that decision, you are free. Free of her, free of marriage, and by default, cold turkey freedom from codependency on her.

Figure out what you want to do, and do it. From my vantage point, it seems like the options are to start actually putting some effort into the present and forgetting the past, or getting the hell out of there. Decide. Stop looking to her to make your decisions for you. You do not need her approval or validation. Just do it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm thinking that all of that attention last night was so that she could call today and inform you she was going out with her friends after work and would be coming home later than usual.

She doesn't do anything that doesn't produce something for her own interests.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Hijack - 

Happy Anniversary Emerald!!!! :smthumbup:


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> I'm thinking that all of that attention last night was so that she could call today and inform you she was going out with her friends after work and would be coming home later than usual.
> 
> She doesn't do anything that doesn't produce something for her own interests.


Your last sentence is dead on. That is a curious thought and I did not even think about her going out tonight. I suppose time will tell. I have not heard anything yet from her today but will for sure post if that happens. Thanks again for sticking with me on this. It is helping.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> "Hun, you are not yourself, do you want a divorce?"


I would have answered honestly.

"I'd be lying if I said I hadn't been thinking about it more and more lately."

Then I would have left for work. NO I love yous. No have a good day... 

It's not mean, it's being very truthful and matter of fact. No way to misconstrue you or your train of thought. It puts her on the spot to do some work if she wants more than that short answer.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Pravius said:


> Your last sentence is dead on. That is a curious thought and I did not even think about her going out tonight. I suppose time will tell. I have not heard anything yet from her today but will for sure post if that happens. Thanks again for sticking with me on this. It is helping.


If she doesn't do it tonight it will be over the weekend. If she keeps pouring it on, trust me there's a reason behind it, and it's not for YOU.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Pravius said:


> I am not offended, just do not think that what you said helped in any way. I am here for help, not to argue. Now let's just move on, and drop this, eh?


Fine.

I would like to point out that you believed you were under attack when you were not might be germane to the problem. 

Limiting the discussion to this _thread and this thread alone_, and rewinding to the point where our interaction began, you seemed hurt by the fact that your wife doesn't have any interest in sending or receiving "I'm thinking of you" texts during the day when you're apart. You interpret this as cold indifference.

That doesn't imply that she doesn't care about you, which is the point of my experience. Some people just don't see that as a necessary component of a long term committed relationship. If you build up a huge rationalization of hurt and perceived uncaring from your wife where none exists simply because she doesn't value that expression of intimacy, then the problem might just as well be your lack of understanding of her personality as her lack of understanding of your needs.

Since I haven't followed your story personally, I can only go by what I read in this thread. And that is my take away from what I read here.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Fine.
> 
> I would like to point out that you believed you were under attack when you were not might be germane to the problem.
> 
> ...


Cletus, 

Thank you. I do not think that any of my responses to you indicated that I felt like I was under attack. I just made it clear that we are not the same people and because of that we think different and have different needs in our individual lives, maybe I misunderstood your intentions but I never starting throwing insults, I just asked if you do not have something nice to say, then refrain is all. 

The issue is that this has been ongoing for 8 years now, the constant push and pull cycles, the insults and vengefulness, I am not implying that because she does not text me she does not care about me, it's her actions that convince me otherwise. 

She can say something to me which is all good and nice, but the next minute her actions completely contradict what she said.

My point with the texts were, it would be just a nice easy thing for her to do given the fact she is busy at work. Ultimately my thread is not about text messages though, I would be completely fine not talking with her throughout the day (I get it people are busy) but because I am not feeling fulfilled in other areas, I concentrate on the text part because when we are away from each other it's the only way we can commuinicate. 

Like for example, if last night she came home and said damn I miss you so much honey, and took the initiative to show me the love, I would not be here right now. But instead, she felt threatened because she could sense that I was upset, that is what motivates her love, not that she genuinely wants to show it to me.

The bottom line is, I need a certain level of love in my life. You may not need this in your life, and that is ok. But because I am not getting this very strong need for myself, I have become codependent trying to get it, and basically lost myself to trying to get her to love me. Now that I have recognized that, I am here trying to work past it, and get myself out of a broken relationship, I just need the help from people who have been through it, hence, this thread.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Pravius, is it accurate to say that your current mindset is that you are aware your wife gives you scraps, and that it is not enough to satisfy you, and you are quietly observing the pattern to gain enough strength to leave?


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Pravius, is it accurate to say that your current mindset is that you are aware your wife gives you scraps, and that it is not enough to satisfy you, and you are quietly observing the pattern to gain enough strength to leave?


Either that, or I have some sliver of hope that she may decide to change (to me, and I know it may not be to her, but to me these needs are not asking for very much). I know that I am not going to stick around for much longer in the current condition, but if there is *sustained* improvement, I do love her and would love to be in a *healthy* relationship with her.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Pravius said:


> I think I did a bit better last night and this morning. Last night she came home a bit earlier than the night before which was nice, but she seemed to read my detachment quickly. She walked in around 8:30p, I was watching "Zero Hour" (love that show) and she came and sat next to me on the couch and started kissing me, I recriprocated and hugged her she said "I love you", I said "I love you too". Then she asked "Are you watching this?" I said "Yea" and she went to eat and she said she was going to take a bath.
> 
> It's now about 9:30p and she is eating dinner and I let her know I was tired and needed to go lay down, but I let her know I will be watching TV for a bit before I go to sleep in bed. (I told her that incase she wanted to come in with me, initiate, cuddle, etc). I went to go lay down in bed and about 30 min later she joined me.
> 
> ...


You handled that very well and got a good response overall, it seems like. 

The problem is, there is such a massive difference between the effort you want her to put in and what she's willing to do.

Looking on the bright side, some of her good qualities are:
--She has a steady job (and I'm guessing contributes at least equally financially)
--She isn't cheating on you
--She isn't demanding or nagging
--She says I love you and is affectionate at least some of the time.

There have been people here talking about how they wish their spouses would only get a job, or say "I love you", and there's a whole forum about how to cope with affairs.. if maybe that helps give a fresh perspective. 

My impression is you two aren't compatible in many ways, and she may not always be purposefully hurting you or being neglectful of you. Don't get me wrong--I see your point of view. You feel like she gives you just enough attention to string you along, not an ounce more. At this point though, can she ever do enough to make it up to you? If you want to give it a try, you'll need to put in a huge effort in letting the past go. She'll need a little room to make mistakes as well without it being another mark against her. It may be too bitter a pill for you to swallow; only you can decide if it's worth it. 

If you don't have kids and you just can't or don't want to force yourself to give her a clean slate, separation might be the best thing to at least give you time to clear your head. Good luck


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## outNabout (Mar 2, 2013)

This sounds really familiar Pravius.
I'm working on this too. I'm tired of being taken for granted and treated like a doormat. It's hard though when all your life you've believed in being a 'nice guy' because it's who you are to the core. 

Maybe we can work on this together... maybe a regular support group here on TAM can be formed or something. 

It feels nice to be wanted. But do you think it's one sided that you're giving all the time and she's not reciprocating and only thinking about her own wants, needs and plans. 

I feel your pain.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Well this weekend was FANTASTIC. On Friday I did not hear from her at all during the day as mentioned here. However, it did not bother me like it normally would have. I was at work all day looking at things to do over the weekend for myself, it was great. 

On Friday I went out to a local bar with some friends from work. There was me, and 5 women and 1 other dude. We had a blast, just listening to music, drinking, good conversation and good friends. This girl who I work with I am good friends with (just friends) and she knows my situation and asked me to come out on Friday, I was not going to do it but I am so glad that I did. 

Wife text me late on Friday around 8pm while I was at the bar asking if I wanted her to pick me something up to eat. This bar is about 2 miles from each of our places of work. I texted back and said no thanks but let her know I was at this bar, and asked her to join if she was interested. She declined because she was tired, I had a feeling she would, but did not let that effect me at all. 

Saturday morning when we both woke up, I think she really started to understand that I was on my last leg in this marriage. We talked for hours, and the cool thing about this talk was she was not as incredibly defensive as she normally is, mind you I know I may have triggered the abandonment fear. 

The whole weekend we talked about my needs (yes she knows but I made them incredibly clear to her), my recovery from being codependent, and we talked about intimacy. 

She admits she has a huge intimacy issue. she said the whole weekend that our marriage felt so different, we identified that it feels different because I am no longer initiating EVERYTHING. I am no longer asking, begging, pleading for loving sex, I no longer initiate physical contact, I want her to try. 

Ultimately after endless hours of explaining, talking, etc I told her my plan. I let her know that if I do not see serious changes that I just cannot continue on in this marriage and that both of us deserve to be happy. I let her know that this issue of hers will not get better unless she gets professional help, and she agreed and also agreed that this is a pattern she has had her whole life with men, and the only reason why it's different with me is because I am the only one who has stuck it out and tried to help her. I explained that most of me sticking around has been my codependency issue and that the behavior has not been healthy.

It was a great weekend. It was the beginning step to me taking my life back and I am so incredibly excited to live the life I have always wanted to live! Just wanted to update and say thanks to everyone who has helped me. I think I am really starting to come around.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

outNabout said:


> This sounds really familiar Pravius.
> I'm working on this too. I'm tired of being taken for granted and treated like a doormat. It's hard though when all your life you've believed in being a 'nice guy' because it's who you are to the core.
> 
> Maybe we can work on this together... maybe a regular support group here on TAM can be formed or something.
> ...


I am with ya bro! If you ever need help or support, or anything feel free to send me a message on here. We will get through this together


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

Pravius said:


> About 2 months ago, and I completely forgot about this, but thought it was important to bring it up. My wife and I were out clothes shopping. I was starting to lose weight (when she mentioned the threesome stuff it scared the crap outta me and started to really get myself back in shape). We work like 2 miles from each other. I asked if we could go out to lunch sometime since we work so close to each other and said I would pick her up from work. She kinda grimaced a little and I asked what is wrong. In a nutshell she told me "I would feel more comfortable if you lost some weight before meeting my coworkers" then she proceeded to tell me how none of her coworkers comment on our pictures about me and how cute I was.
> 
> I was completely floored when she said this. I had no idea how to take it, and I still hold major resentment for it. I must have completely blocked it out of my mind because I just remembered it a couple days back. What wife does this to her husband?


This is just incredibly mean. I'm sorry, it's been a long time since i've been on here and have not read your story, but to answer your question about what kind of wife does this...well, one that wants to squish your self esteem to keep control of you. The reason I say this is because that is what my man has done to me. I am still working on my esteem issues, I think I will always have to, just as you may have to also. i wish you the best!


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

Pravius said:


> It was a great weekend. It was the beginning step to me taking my life back and I am so incredibly excited to live the life I have always wanted to live! Just wanted to update and say thanks to everyone who has helped me. I think I am really starting to come around.


Good going! Keep on keeping on!!


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

stumblealong said:


> This is just incredibly mean. I'm sorry, it's been a long time since i've been on here and have not read your story, but to answer your question about what kind of wife does this...well, one that wants to squish your self esteem to keep control of you. The reason I say this is because that is what my man has done to me. I am still working on my esteem issues, I think I will always have to, just as you may have to also. i wish you the best!


You are absolutely right. Thank you very much and remember, you are a beautiful person, because you are unique and you are you, and need to keep that in mind, I have been doing the same. 

Feel free to send me a friend request, or messages if you need to talk. I will tell you, it has helped me a great deal just talking and getting feedback. I am here if you need some help and support.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Pravius said:


> Well this weekend was FANTASTIC. On Friday I did not hear from her at all during the day as mentioned here. However, it did not bother me like it normally would have. I was at work all day looking at things to do over the weekend for myself, it was great.
> 
> On Friday I went out to a local bar with some friends from work. There was me, and 5 women and 1 other dude. We had a blast, just listening to music, drinking, good conversation and good friends. This girl who I work with I am good friends with (just friends) and she knows my situation and asked me to come out on Friday, I was not going to do it but I am so glad that I did.
> 
> ...


Bravo!

Please acknowledge & thank her everytime she tries to meet your needs. It is going to be very hard for her to change the old tapes.


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