# Statistics



## GettingBetter

Well here is something that I have recently been thinking about. Just from reading the stories on TAM I see there are a lot more men here than women. I know the topic has been covered before, but its something else that has been boggling my mind for quite some time. Well, how do I start.
It seems that more guys than women regret their infidelity and/or divorce...there are more men than women as the ones "left behind", and statistics also prove this (75% of divorces initiated by women)....more men are asking how to win their wife back... Even searching the internet statistics show that women are usually happier after divorce. And that are less likely to go back to previous relationship. 
It seems women have much easier time moving on.
I know I will hear everything from "they have been unhappy for a long time", "more emotional support", "they got the kids, money and the house"...
But statistics also show that women are more bitter and angry with their ex husbands than the other way around and are still blaming thr ex husbands for the failure of the marriage. How is this possible if they are the ones that wanted out, are generally happier and at the same time blaming the ex husbands for the divorce...or are the statistics just BS?
In a way this shows me that maybe the men are the more emotional gender. They suffer more after the loss of the family, marriage, wife, friends...but at the same time less angry after few years. Do men process the divorce better, even after they were blindsided and given no chance to fix things?
I dont know....
BTW, I am just bored and TAM has been a bit slow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ExisaWAW

I totally get your point but I confess I have no idea why women are the way they are. They are a mystery to me, lol.


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## GettingBetter

I knew you would be one of the first ones to respond...lol. They will always remain a mistery...all the books for the guys how to be a good husband..a bit of beta and a little bit of alpha(never enough of one or the other) ...provider...listener..good father. Too much work...cant you just be who you are?! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hope4family

Did it ever occur to you, "everybody lies." One thing is certain, almost everyone on this sight is "blind sided" in some way. It doesn't matter how the "ex" feels. We are here to heal for ourselves. For all we know, our ex is on here posting in another part of the forum. 

The reason there are more men on here then women? Not sure. But when the student is ready, the teacher appears. We have a lot of insightful posters whose attitudes are geared towards helping men. 

I have seen other posters whose advice is more geared towards helping women. But admittedly, it doesn't appear as common. 

I found this site, originally looking for answers and opinions on sex in marriage. When my marriage failed, I joined the fray, and I do not peruse the sex in relationships side of this forum anymore.


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## nice777guy

hope4family said:


> The reason there are more men on here then women? Not sure. But when the student is ready, the teacher appears. We have a lot of insightful posters whose attitudes are geared towards helping men.


Here's a theory - women are more likely to open up to people in "real life." Men seem to struggle talking about things like this with each other - in "real life."

At least it applies to me and why I came here.


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## hope4family

nice777guy said:


> Here's a theory - women are more likely to open up to people in "real life." Men seem to struggle talking about things like this with each other - in "real life."
> 
> At least it applies to me and why I came here.


A good theory. 

There is strength though in multiple places for support. 

If I didn't have this forum, I'd be alright. But then again, there is a lot of insight. The ability to talk to other men who are going through things very similar to me. Is very helpful, uplifting and supporting.


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## HeartbrokenW

I'm a left behind Wife and I was bitterly angry at first. I came here originally in search of answers. My situation turned out to be a good thing, the karma bus struck hard. Why do I stay? not sure, still in healing mode and still searching for answers.


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## brokenbythis

GettingBetter said:


> It seems that more guys than women regret their infidelity and/or divorce...there are more men than women as the ones "left behind", and statistics also prove this (75% of divorces initiated by women)....more men are asking how to win their wife back... Even searching the internet statistics show that women are usually happier after divorce. And that are less likely to go back to previous relationship.
> It seems women have much easier time moving on.
> I know I will hear everything from "they have been unhappy for a long time", "more emotional support", "they got the kids, money and the house"...
> But statistics also show that women are more bitter and angry with their ex husbands than the other way around and are still blaming thr ex husbands for the failure of the marriage. *How is this possible if they are the ones that wanted out, are generally happier and at the same time blaming the ex husbands for the divorce...or are the statistics just BS?*In a way this shows me that maybe the men are the more emotional gender. They suffer more after the loss of the family, marriage, wife, friends...but at the same time less angry after few years. Do men process the divorce better, even after they were blindsided and given no chance to fix things?
> I dont know....
> BTW, I am just bored and TAM has been a bit slow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In my case he cheated got another woman pregnant and I filed for divorce. Yes I wanted out but only after he told me this OW was pregnant (and they are not together anymore).

Yes I'm bitter, yes I wanted out, but I am bitter because my ex did this and ruined our family. How can I stay with him now? Would you? What he did took away everything that was dear to me and yes I am angry but I was the one that filed.


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## angelpixie

Well, I would be one of those situations where the woman filed for divorce. But he was the one who cheated, and the one who wanted to split. But everything was dragging on forever for various reasons. He did not want to get a lawyer, but due to more issues than I could explain in one post (I have an old thread in GTDS if you have some time to kill ), I chose to get a lawyer and to eventually file, to protect myself and make sure things were done the right way and to my best benefit. I've read of other women filing after the man left, too. In some of these cases, the man wants to split, goes on with his affair partner, and doesn't care about finalizing child or property settlements. The woman filed to end the limbo and get a little control back in her own life.

Also from what I've gathered on here, the walkaway spouse gets over things faster, man or woman. The betrayed spouse takes longer, man or woman. 

I have also seen the statistic that women are generally happier after their divorces than men are. I don't know about that personally, but I'm happier now than when I was married. But then I'd be surprised if my ex didn't say the same thing, lol. He got everything he wanted. I got away from him, and over time, have come to see this as a positive.


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## EleGirl

GettingBetter said:


> It seems that more guys than women regret their infidelity and/or divorce...there are more men than women as the ones "left behind", and statistics also prove this (75% of divorces initiated by women)....more men are asking how to win their wife back...


I don’t think you can tell if a person regrets their infidelity by who files for divorce. 
There is a thread around here somewhere that talks about the supposed “walk away wife” thing. A divorce attorney participated in the thread. He said that the idea that women are walking away in droves from good marriages is a myth. According to him about 80% or so of the divorces initiated by women are initiated due to either because their husbands are abusive and/or he cheated.



GettingBetter said:


> Even searching the internet statistics show that women are usually happier after divorce. And that are less likely to go back to previous relationship.


This makes no sense at all. It is impossible for more men than women to go back to previous relationships. If a man goes back to a previous relationship… then the woman also does. Thus the number of men who return to previous relationships is equal to the number of women who do this.



GettingBetter said:


> It seems women have much easier time moving on.
> I know I will hear everything from "they have been unhappy for a long time", "more emotional support", "they got the kids, money and the house"... But statistics also show that women are more bitter and angry with their ex husbands than the other way around and are still blaming thr ex husbands for the failure of the marriage. How is this possible if they are the ones that wanted out, are generally happier and at the same time blaming the ex husbands for the divorce...or are the statistics just BS?


Please provide a link to the statistics that show that women are more bitter angry with their exH’s.

If the attorney was right in what he posted that something like 80% of the women who file for divorce do so because their husbands were cheating and/or abusive then it does make sense that these women would hold their exH more responsible for the demise of their marriage. Abuse and cheating are two of the worse things that a spouse can do.


GettingBetter said:


> In a way this shows me that maybe the men are the more emotional gender. They suffer more after the loss of the family, marriage, wife, friends...but at the same time less angry after few years. Do men process the divorce better, even after they were blindsided and given no chance to fix things?
> I dont know....
> BTW, I am just bored and TAM has been a bit slow.


What makes you think that men who are divorced are blindsided and given no chance to fix things? I doubt you will find one woman on here who is divorced did not try very hard to get their husband to work on their marriage long before, years before, finally filing for divorce.


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## angelpixie

GettingBetter said:


> It seems women have much easier time moving on.


Proof, please? 



GettingBetter said:


> In a way this shows me that maybe the men are the more emotional gender. *They suffer more after the loss of the family, marriage, wife, friends...but at the same time less angry after few years.* Do men process the divorce better, even after they were blindsided and given no chance to fix things?


Proof, please?

'Internet statistics,' unless obtained using rigorous scientific methods, may not be any more believable than 'internet penis size.'  Where and how were they gathered? Voluntary participation? Were other variables accounted for, such as the ones elegirl and I mentioned for other possible reasons wives end up filing instead of husbands?

I would use the stats I find as things that make me go "Hmmm" but certainly not anything from which I'd draw hard and fast conclusions.

But that's just me, and TAM has been kind of slow.


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## hope4family

angelpixie said:


> Proof, please?
> 
> 
> 
> Proof, please?
> 
> 'Internet statistics,' unless obtained using rigorous scientific methods, may not be any more believable than 'internet penis size.'  Where and how were they gathered? Voluntary participation? Were other variables accounted for, such as the ones elegirl and I mentioned for other possible reasons wives end up filing instead of husbands?
> 
> I would use the stats I find as things that make me go "Hmmm" but certainly not anything from which I'd draw hard and fast conclusions.
> 
> But that's just me, and TAM has been kind of slow.


Funny, let me talk about some real statistics. 

When I was in the courtroom. The judge looked at me and said, "I am not comfortable with the fact that there is no child support. Statistics show (he quoted real statistics) that after so many years, the father moves on, and lives a new life. New friends, weekends at the beach, houses, new girlfriend. Meanwhile the Mother is left to raise the child solo, so child support is important." 

Then my lawyer mentioned that I was the vast majority caregiver. 

"Very well. You should reconsider child support for yourself at a later date. Divorce approved." 

So regardless of what you feel about statistics on this site. I think the truth is, that a lot of men on this forum are probably just abandoned. Reality is that its the other way around.


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## HeartbrokenW

I asked for no support as well. He's got all he can do to take care of himself. He finally got an apartment about a month ago. DD has gone to his place exactly twice. She doesn't want to go anymore. There's nothing to do there and he doesn't spend any time with her. I won't force her to go. It's his loss.


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## hope4family

On a side note. I have a friend. Whose husband just up and left her one day. Gave no reason. Just left, poof gone. 

She filed. I don't think she is on this site. But she is doing her personal best to move on. Which to me says something.


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## Dollystanford

HeartbrokenW said:


> I asked for no support as well. He's got all he can do to take care of himself. He finally got an apartment about a month ago. DD has gone to his place exactly twice. She doesn't want to go anymore. There's nothing to do there and he doesn't spend any time with her. I won't force her to go. It's his loss.


Exactly the same as mine. He got a flat (I bought him out of the house) 3 miles away, D hasn't even spent one night round there. She has no interest in him. She's awesome. He's a loser


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## Bluecollar

I think many of the problems lie in the entitlement way of thought and the downfall of our economy. I am amazed and disappointed at the couples that blame some difficulty or shortcoming on their SO while our corrupt government sits there stuffing their pockets with kickbacks while the exodus of jobs and our good lifestyle continues.
I could write a book about this, but you get the point.


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## maincourse99

My wife left, moved in with POSOM and now works 7 nights a week plus 2 full days just to keep her head above water. Sees our daughter maybe 6 hours a week. Daughter doesn't really care to visit anyway. Nor does my ex seem particularly bothered by the lack of time she has her.

. Now she texts me messages of regret. Oh well, things were pretty good here I guess. Maybe it's the culture of personal happiness/fulfillment/having it all that's behind both men and women leaving their marriages.

I would guess it's pretty close to 50/50. Some people just don't want to face the work of maintaining a long term relationship, mine was 18 years.


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## Daisy82

GettingBetter said:


> and statistics also prove this (75% of divorces initiated by women)....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My personal thoughts and experience from the way I preceived it, he was perfectly happy being unhappy. I initiated the seperation/divorce. He didn't want the seperation at first yet was unwilling to take any steps that might have been able to help our trouble marriage. He shot down any and all suggestions I made (I have to work, we don't have the money, who will watch the kids were his reasons why). Yet he made no suggestions of his own. 

For me, I wasn't happy being unhappy anymore. Things had to change. Maybe counseling wouldn't have helped or the date nights to try to get to know each other again or the marriage bootcamp happening at a local church. But I was willing to find out and he wasn't.


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## EleGirl

Daisy82 said:


> My personal thoughts and experience from the way I preceived it, he was perfectly happy being unhappy. I initiated the seperation/divorce. He didn't want the seperation at first yet was unwilling to take any steps that might have been able to help our trouble marriage. He shot down any and all suggestions I made (I have to work, we don't have the money, who will watch the kids were his reasons why). Yet he made no suggestions of his own.
> 
> For me, I wasn't happy being unhappy anymore. Things had to change. Maybe counseling wouldn't have helped or the date nights to try to get to know each other again or the marriage bootcamp happening at a local church. But I was willing to find out and he wasn't.


I don't get why some people will not do the things necessary to improve their marriage. We see it over and over again. And yet they are so shocked when the marriage continues to spiral to the point that there is nothing left. 

There is a lot of good material out there that can help a couple. There is good support like the marriage bootcamps, marriage enrichment, marriage enounters, etc. But some just will not do anything. 

I've lived through it as well.... with spouses who refuse to do anything to fix things.


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## hope4family

EleGirl said:


> I don't get why some people will not do the things necessary to improve their marriage. We see it over and over again. And yet they are so shocked when the marriage continues to spiral to the point that there is nothing left.
> 
> There is a lot of good material out there that can help a couple. There is good support like the marriage bootcamps, marriage enrichment, marriage enounters, etc. But some just will not do anything.
> 
> I've lived through it as well.... with spouses who refuse to do anything to fix things.


I think that this becomes a double edged sword. 

I said a lot in our marriage that we needed MC. Finally when she said we need it, I was like great I really think we can conquer this. 

She kept saying, "I don't understand." 

I didn't. To her MC was a method of telling me it was over. Not "lets work on it now." 

That hurt, a lot. Hurt even more when I realized that she didn't want to go to a MC because "they'll likely be pro-marriage".


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## ExisaWAW

hope4family said:


> To her MC was a method of telling me it was over. Not "lets work on it now."
> 
> That hurt, a lot. Hurt even more when I realized that she didn't want to go to a MC because "they'll likely be pro-marriage".


EXACT-A-MUNDO!!!

Same here. Mine wouldn't even go. She was terrified to hear that she might be partly to blame. Her personal shrink had already told her that our marriage was probably beyond fixing & that was exactly what she wanted to hear.

I can remember one of her GFs coming over to our house to talk with us & offer her help. We talked awhile & she looked up at my x & asked, so are y'all going to try and work through this? My x said, no, I want to D. I was blown away. Even her GF was shocked.

The true WAW (not the one who has complained for years & years only to be ignored, etc.) just wants OUT!

They don't want to fix it. It's a real punch in the gut for we LBSs who are left holding the emotional pieces. That's why it can take us longer to heal & move on. It just seems unimaginable how this person we loved could cheat on us & walk away & never look back.


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## working_together

The guy I'm seeing was "blindsided" by his ex wife. He thought he had a perfect marriage (or so he says), and one night she came up to their bedroom and announced she was leaving him. He had no idea this was coming.

I met him about 8 months after his separation. Eventually she found out he was dating, and oddly, wasn't happy about it. She is a bit jealous of our relationship, even though she's been in one since the separation. My guy says even though she ended it, she isn't really all that happy, and itsn't in a great relationship. Bottom line is that sometimes people believe the relationship or marriage is making them unhappy, but really it's about themselves not being content in general.

I think everyone is bitter with the end of a marriage whether they ended it or not, it seems normal, it's a failure of some sort. I was bitter at the beginning, but after more than a year, I am happier, and I think my ex is as well. I don't blame him for the failure of our marriage, we both did some crappy things when we were together.


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## legiox

Some people are just in love with the fact of being married and not willing to put fourth the effort of keeping it.


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## hope4family

legiox said:


> Some people are just in love with the fact of being married and not willing to put fourth the effort of keeping it.


To generalized. But I get what you mean. 

Some people are in love with that high. Get married while they are at it. 

I won't be surprised if my ex-wife remarry's soon.


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## southbound

ExisaWAW said:


> EXACT-A-MUNDO!!!
> 
> Same here. Mine wouldn't even go. She was terrified to hear that she might be partly to blame. Her personal shrink had already told her that our marriage was probably beyond fixing & that was exactly what she wanted to hear.
> 
> I can remember one of her GFs coming over to our house to talk with us & offer her help. We talked awhile & she looked up at my x & asked, so are y'all going to try and work through this? My x said, no, I want to D. I was blown away. Even her GF was shocked.
> 
> The true WAW (not the one who has complained for years & years only to be ignored, etc.) just wants OUT!
> 
> They don't want to fix it. It's a real punch in the gut for we LBSs who are left holding the emotional pieces. That's why it can take us longer to heal & move on. It just seems unimaginable how this person we loved could cheat on us & walk away & never look back.


Similar to my situation. Once my x wife announced she was no longer happy and wanted a divorce, she refused MC and acted as if it was just hogwash. We also had people talk to us and try to help; they were also stunned at her attitude.

It makes me wonder why some are willing to work on making the marriage work, while others are not; they would rather just hit the trail.


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## Daisy82

Obviously I don't know your exw or the way your marriage was. But is it at all possible that she felt that she had been actively trying for months or even years without it getting better? It's just a thought. I know for me, I tried for years. I talked and tried to take action without him ever taking much interest. And it just came to a point that I was done. He wasn't "active" in trying to save/improve our marriage until the very end and even that was just words not real action.


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## whitehawk

EleGirl said:


> I don’t think you can tell if a person regrets their infidelity by who files for divorce.
> There is a thread around here somewhere that talks about the supposed “walk away wife” thing. A divorce attorney participated in the thread. He said that the idea that women are walking away in droves from good marriages is a myth. According to him about 80% or so of the divorces initiated by women are initiated due to either because their husbands are abusive and/or he cheated.
> 
> 
> This makes no sense at all. It is impossible for more men than women to go back to previous relationships. If a man goes back to a previous relationship… then the woman also does. Thus the number of men who return to previous relationships is equal to the number of women who do this.
> 
> 
> Please provide a link to the statistics that show that women are more bitter angry with their exH’s.
> 
> If the attorney was right in what he posted that something like 80% of the women who file for divorce do so because their husbands were cheating and/or abusive then it does make sense that these women would hold their exH more responsible for the demise of their marriage. Abuse and cheating are two of the worse things that a spouse can do.
> 
> What makes you think that men who are divorced are blindsided and given no chance to fix things? I doubt you will find one woman on here who is divorced did not try very hard to get their husband to work on their marriage long before, years before, finally filing for divorce.



Seems to be nearly all the women that walk don't try to fix it , say very little if anything to him and seem more unaware than he does to me.
Mine was and I've read similar a 1,000 times since.
Women are no better wives or any more in tune than guys , most of them are clueless from what I see.
They might be in tune to themselves but ha , what does that tell ya ?
And I can say one thing since becoming single and getting into a few single female heads - man they are as scary as all fk ! Yet to meet one I'd touch with a 1o foot pole , starting to think to hell with them to be honest they're too fkd up for me.


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## Camelia

My husband and I were having problems and we both knew it. However, we had different ideas on how to handle it, and differing ideas on whether or not it could be fixed. He was determined that it could not be fixed, and put no effort into reconciliation what so ever. I tried. I talked. I apologized. All of it. However, some things in me had changed, and he just couldn't stand/handle it. So, after almost 6 mo. of separation, I said okay, I give up. I am ready to get on with my life because you are obviously not interested in being the kind of husband I want and need in my life anymore, and you will not accept me as I am, you are just holding a grudge. So, we are selling the house, the children and I are moving, and I have plans to build myself a new future. I put my whole life into my marriage, 16 yrs. He is already happy as can be. No one to answer to, no kids annoying him in the evening, etc. But his life that he has created is lonely and empty. I want a full life, with love and laughter. Why do women move on better? Because we have to. Why are we bitter? Maybe because we love deeper, especially when we have created children with our spouse. The lion is the king of the jungle, but it is actually the lioness who is the bad ass!!


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## whitehawk

Camelia said:


> My husband and I were having problems and we both knew it. However, we had different ideas on how to handle it, and differing ideas on whether or not it could be fixed. He was determined that it could not be fixed, and put no effort into reconciliation what so ever. I tried. I talked. I apologized. All of it. However, some things in me had changed, and he just couldn't stand/handle it. So, after almost 6 mo. of separation, I said okay, I give up. I am ready to get on with my life because you are obviously not interested in being the kind of husband I want and need in my life anymore, and you will not accept me as I am, you are just holding a grudge. So, we are selling the house, the children and I are moving, and I have plans to build myself a new future. I put my whole life into my marriage, 16 yrs. He is already happy as can be. No one to answer to, no kids annoying him in the evening, etc. But his life that he has created is lonely and empty. I want a full life, with love and laughter. Why do women move on better? Because we have to. Why are we bitter? Maybe because we love deeper, especially when we have created children with our spouse. The lion is the king of the jungle, but it is actually the lioness who is the bad ass!!



But see , again . 
"I have needs " - so what and what he doesn't - were his "needs" being met ?
Not the kind of husband "you want him to be " - were you the kind of wife "he wanted"
So " you " and the kids are skedaddling , great , bet they love the idea of not having a family and a dad anymore !


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## angelpixie

Camelia said:


> My husband and I were having problems and we both knew it. *However, we had different ideas on how to handle it, and differing ideas on whether or not it could be fixed. He was determined that it could not be fixed, and put no effort into reconciliation what so ever. I tried. I talked. I apologized. All of it. *However, some things in me had changed, and he just couldn't stand/handle it. So, after almost 6 mo. of separation, I said okay, I give up. I am ready to get on with my life because you are obviously not interested in being the kind of husband I want and need in my life anymore, and you will not accept me as I am, you are just holding a grudge. So, we are selling the house, the children and I are moving, and I have plans to build myself a new future. I put my whole life into my marriage, 16 yrs. He is already happy as can be. No one to answer to, no kids annoying him in the evening, etc. But his life that he has created is lonely and empty. I want a full life, with love and laughter. Why do women move on better? Because we have to. Why are we bitter? Maybe because we love deeper, especially when we have created children with our spouse. The lion is the king of the jungle, but it is actually the lioness who is the bad ass!!





whitehawk said:


> But see , again .
> "I have needs " - so what and what he doesn't - were his "needs" being met ?
> Not the kind of husband "you want him to be " - were you the kind of wife "he wanted"
> So " you " and the kids are skedaddling , great , bet they love the idea of not having a family and a dad anymore !


_See the bolded text above. I think you missed something in her post. As we say to BS time after time here on TAM, one spouse cannot fix a marriage alone._


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## whitehawk

angelpixie said:


> _See the bolded text above. I think you missed something in her post. As we say to BS time after time here on TAM, one spouse cannot fix a marriage alone._


Yeah that's true . at least one side of every story and I bolded a few very very common other sides to the story too !

See I don't mean this to be pointed at the poster as such , no body really knows a couples real story except for them but my x said almost identical things.
Yes I wound up in an EA , but I didn't really realize there was such a thing at the time no' 1 . Whenever gf's or my x were ever that close to other guys it was conveniently always oh I was jealous or I was possessive .
But what put me there. All my "needs" had been neglected for four yrs. I also had major Cluster fk from starting up in a whole new area , starting a business and trying to buy a home for my family.
She says oh but I tried so hard . Ah , no you actually ignored anything I've complained about or asked for for 4 yrs now , me included , yet look at how hard I worked to get all this for my family.
And she did. She never ever valued us time near the end and usually wasted precious hours and opportunities on the phone , watching tv . Stopped asking me if I wanted to come to bed early like we'd always done. She wasn't very affectionate it always had to come from me first, she got really loud , got very bossy , piled on weight .
I asked and warned for years about all this stuff and how it was making me distant.
She always said oh but I do this and I do that , well so did I too !

Funny thing too that during the separation , everything from the dog on the street to government hand outs , counselors , was all about the poor separated wife with the kids .
Even she admitted it . She also admitted that she still loved me and would never find another us . We were in a rut , point is we both got fkd up . We were both missing out !


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## whitehawk

southbound said:


> Similar to my situation. Once my x wife announced she was no longer happy and wanted a divorce, she refused MC and acted as if it was just hogwash. We also had people talk to us and try to help; they were also stunned at her attitude.
> 
> It makes me wonder why some are willing to work on making the marriage work, while others are not; they would rather just hit the trail.


Comes down to guts. Some women have none and are self centered but others have some intelligence and bounds of guts about things.


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## whitehawk

angelpixie said:


> Well, I would be one of those situations where the woman filed for divorce. But he was the one who cheated, and the one who wanted to split. But everything was dragging on forever for various reasons. He did not want to get a lawyer, but due to more issues than I could explain in one post (I have an old thread in GTDS if you have some time to kill ), I chose to get a lawyer and to eventually file, to protect myself and make sure things were done the right way and to my best benefit. I've read of other women filing after the man left, too. In some of these cases, the man wants to split, goes on with his affair partner, and doesn't care about finalizing child or property settlements. The woman filed to end the limbo and get a little control back in her own life.
> 
> Also from what I've gathered on here, the walkaway spouse gets over things faster, man or woman. The betrayed spouse takes longer, man or woman.
> 
> I have also seen the statistic that women are generally happier after their divorces than men are. I don't know about that personally, but I'm happier now than when I was married. But then I'd be surprised if my ex didn't say the same thing, lol. He got everything he wanted. I got away from him, and over time, have come to see this as a positive.



Yet no ones pointed out right - that the women generally get the house and the kids ! Wonder why they might be statistically more happy.
Does any female here have a clue what it's like to have to organize visits - to see your own children.
To watch them live with a newly mummy appointed stranger daddy while you- their own father lives somewhere else and has to make appointments to see your own kids - and you may have to put up with him while your there, console your kids , say goodnight to them over the phone while somehow trying to make it good and sense of it for them as they cry on the other end ?
Or to have to start from scratch after working your [email protected]@ of for 20 yrs for your family as what seems to happen to many guys.
No clue why women might generally be happier , it's a mystery to even my wittle brain !


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## Camelia

whitehawk said:


> But see , again .
> "I have needs " - so what and what he doesn't - were his "needs" being met ?
> Not the kind of husband "you want him to be " - were you the kind of wife "he wanted"
> So " you " and the kids are skedaddling , great , bet they love the idea of not having a family and a dad anymore !


WH, you read into my post what you wanted to see I think. I actually tried to save my marriage, but during most of our separation all he would do was tell me how much I had failed him in the last two years. Just so you know, I was fighting major mental illness for those two years, and for him to decide the fate of our marriage on those two years is cruel in my opinion. He brought all of his complaints again last night in the form of accusations. "You didn't buy groceries or make dinner every night. You stopped cleaning the house like you used to. You went back to college because you wanted to and you could do that, but you still couldn't step up around here." And my personal favorite "You've gained so much weight that I find you to be physically unattractive." Going grocery shopping was making me have extreme anxiety attacks, I gained weight because I was taking carb craving side effect medications, and suffering from major depression. I have made a lot of progress, but not fast enough for him. He judged me. I like the idea of not being judged by the person who loves me, shoot me!

And as far as me skedaddling, he left us and hasn't looked back. He has admitted to me that he prefers being able to go 'home', have his dinner, take his bath, watch a little tv and go to bed without anyone bothering him. He doesn't miss seeing his children everyday. He enjoys his nice quiet life. He quit us. what would you have me do? Wait around in case he changes his mind? 

Am I happy my marriage ended? Absolutely not. It hurts so much that I think there is a crack in my heart that resembles a fault line in a tectonic plate. I didn't marry my husband and have children with him because he was some guy. I married him because I loved him and believed our love would last until the day we died. Are my kids happy? No, but they don't miss angry Daddy yelling at them either. And how do you think they would feel knowing that their Daddy doesn't even miss them? I am protecting them, and believe me, I take good care of their emotional needs so that they can make it through this as best as they can. It hurts me to know that this has happened. But life has to go on, even when it hurts.

And to answer your question about his needs, no they were not met. I didn't clean the house, grocery shop, prepare meals, exercise, etc. to meet his expectations. And I have admitted to all of those things, and tried to commit to doing better. He didn't want to meet me halfway. The only thing I did right in those last two years was take good care of our children in his own words.


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## angelpixie

whitehawk said:


> Yet no ones pointed out right - that the women generally get the house and the kids ! Wonder why they might be statistically more happy.
> Does any female here have a clue what it's like to have to organize visits - to see your own children.
> To watch them live with a newly mummy appointed stranger daddy while you- their own father lives somewhere else and has to make appointments to see your own kids - and you may have to put up with him while your there, console your kids , say goodnight to them over the phone while somehow trying to make it good and sense of it for them as they cry on the other end ?
> Or to have to start from scratch after working your [email protected]@ of for 20 yrs for your family as what seems to happen to many guys.
> No clue why women might generally be happier , it's a mystery to even my wittle brain !


Uh, you obviously haven't been following a lot of the stories around here, including mine, so I'll just encapsulate. 

I did not 'get' the house. My ex and I split the house. He bought out my 1/2 of the mortgage, and I used my part to buy another house, after living in a crappy rental for nearly two years. He also got 1/2 of my retirement. He didn't have one, therefore I got nothing in exchange. Not an uncommon arrangement where I live. 

We did get 50/50 custody, but *everyone* who is no longer living with their child(ren) full-time is 'arranging' time to see their child(ren), whether it's through a formal parenting agreement, or arranged a visit at a time. It hurts me when my son is not with me, and it hurts his dad when my son's with me. Sucks for everyone. I demanded from the get-go that I would see DS every day if possible, even if only an hour or so after school. That despite what 'society' and 'everyone else' said, _I_ was not happy that the demise of my marriage would keep me from being a full-time parent. Ex balked at first, but we worked it out, and we both do this now. 

I have to say, WH, that your anger at women in general really gets old. I don't know why you would think it's harder for a guy to see a new 'daddy' figure with your kids than it is for a woman to see a new 'mommy' figure with her kids. The first time I had to spend my son's birthday without him, because it was his dad's night to have him, was so incredibly painful. I had spent every birthday night of his life tucking him in, starting the first one in the hospital, after _I gave birth to him. _Do you think that didn't hurt? So that my ex could have his own little party with his friends and my DS, without me? Maybe that's a penance I pay for women in general, because some come out financially better in a divorce? And yes, I have had to deal with my child crying because he didn't want to go to his dad's because he didn't like being thrown over for the live-in GF.

Now that my Ex has moved another woman into what had been our marital home, I have to see them being a 'family.' She is not DS' mom, but he likes her well enough, and he is at an age where having someone there for fun times is sometimes good enough for him. Doesn't matter if it's Dad and Mom together or Dad and posGF, as long as he's having a good time. Yes, that really hurts.

I do not believe that men don't hurt when they don't see their kids. And maybe things are changing in our society. For a long time, men who left their wives left their kids as well. They didn't care if there was money for school activities, or sometimes if there was even enough to keep up with new clothes as kids grew up. I knew far more women in this situation than men. There is a reason that wage garnishment laws for child support were needed, and that they were referred to as 'Deadbeat Dad' laws -- because it was overwhelmingly men that were the deadbeats. 

If the guys here on TAM are any indication, more men are stepping up and wanting a part in their kids' lives after divorce. They are not satisfied with weekends only. That's wonderful, and gives me hope. Unfortunately, I see more women walking away from their kids and living the same self-centered 'teen-age' lifestyle that many men did in the past. That's despicable, and I don't know what the hell they're thinking.

But really, check your anger at all women at the door, WH. Try to get a little perspective that maybe your situation with your marriage, dating, etc., is not the same as everyone else's. Just like everyone going through a split, you're not going to have a better life unless and until you own your issues and can stop pointing fingers all the time.


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## GettingBetter

Well aparently I was the one who had "issues" and refused to work on the marriage. This was her POV. I never heard complaints from her. A week before she told me she was done she was telling me and everyone else how much she loves me. Damn, she was even saying it to OM before they started the affair. When I said OK, lets work on this. Lets see what the issue is she refused. Said too late. She endured 12 years of abuse...justified it to herself and everyone willing to listen. Never admitted the affair, tried to rugsweep but I did not let that happen. 
Now everyone and their mother knows the truth. 
Is she a WAW, I do not know...was it exit affair? I really does not matter any more. It's over. I have moved on. Still feel bad about losing family, but not bad about losing her. The way I see it she lost me. And sometimes I think she is starting to realize that too. But I know she will never show it or say it, and that is fine. 
So WAS, cheater, bored...does it really matter? It's over. There are no right answers. I do know that I tried everything and am proud to say that. She would probably say the same thing, and who cares. We both know what she did was not right, but in her mind I pushed her to it.
Meh...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingBetter

Just like everyone going through a split, you're not going to have a better life unless and until you own your issues and can stop pointing fingers all the time.

I agree with this 100%. You need to own your own s**t before pointing fingers. Yes we get it, it's "their" fault, but in the end when the damage is done you just have to move on and not look back. And when you do look back only look at your self and what you did, own it and learn from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk

Camelia said:


> WH, you read into my post what you wanted to see I think. I actually tried to save my marriage, but during most of our separation all he would do was tell me how much I had failed him in the last two years. Just so you know, I was fighting major mental illness for those two years, and for him to decide the fate of our marriage on those two years is cruel in my opinion. He brought all of his complaints again last night in the form of accusations. "You didn't buy groceries or make dinner every night. You stopped cleaning the house like you used to. You went back to college because you wanted to and you could do that, but you still couldn't step up around here." And my personal favorite "You've gained so much weight that I find you to be physically unattractive." Going grocery shopping was making me have extreme anxiety attacks, I gained weight because I was taking carb craving side effect medications, and suffering from major depression. I have made a lot of progress, but not fast enough for him. He judged me. I like the idea of not being judged by the person who loves me, shoot me!
> 
> And as far as me skedaddling, he left us and hasn't looked back. He has admitted to me that he prefers being able to go 'home', have his dinner, take his bath, watch a little tv and go to bed without anyone bothering him. He doesn't miss seeing his children everyday. He enjoys his nice quiet life. He quit us. what would you have me do? Wait around in case he changes his mind?
> 
> Am I happy my marriage ended? Absolutely not. It hurts so much that I think there is a crack in my heart that resembles a fault line in a tectonic plate. I didn't marry my husband and have children with him because he was some guy. I married him because I loved him and believed our love would last until the day we died. Are my kids happy? No, but they don't miss angry Daddy yelling at them either. And how do you think they would feel knowing that their Daddy doesn't even miss them? I am protecting them, and believe me, I take good care of their emotional needs so that they can make it through this as best as they can. It hurts me to know that this has happened. But life has to go on, even when it hurts.
> 
> And to answer your question about his needs, no they were not met. I didn't clean the house, grocery shop, prepare meals, exercise, etc. to meet his expectations. And I have admitted to all of those things, and tried to commit to doing better. He didn't want to meet me halfway. The only thing I did right in those last two years was take good care of our children in his own words.



Sorry to hear all that Cam , sounds damn rough . I wasn't actually talking about yours so much because I did see what pointed out originally , shoulda used a separate post I know.
I can say and yet again today talking to a friend and his friends wife , yet again of she went and she's now screwing 1/2 the town and partying everynight-6kids.
Since we broke up if I had a dollar for every time I've heard or read similar stuff ! Even here , most of the guys wives have done something similar.
All I can say is my God , the stuff I have heard and read , horrific !
Sorry to put it this way but it's actually a damn relief to read one like yours .
Even in my local area , my God the stuff some of the wives have done - fkg mind boggling.

Anyway , glad you tried to save yours . If it goes belly up but we can at least say we tried , then what else can we do .


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## legiox

Only positive aspect about my failed marriage to my WAW and STBXW is that i tried to save it. I was willing to go to MC with her and hopefully rebuild what we lost. 

However, she did not. I showed up to MC with a nice shirt (tucked in) and nice khaki pants. She showed up looking like crap and non presentable. That right there showed me who was willing to keep the marriage intact and who wasn't. 

You know, when you blame your husband (ME) on getting a DWI after leaving a party (while im working by the way). Is pretty pathetic. I'm glad the B is gone. Much better for me out there!


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## Awakening2012

whitehawk said:


> Comes down to guts. Some women have none and are self centered but others have some intelligence and bounds of guts about things.


Um...some men, too!


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## hope4family

I think i've said it before, but i'll say it again. 

It doesn't matter what statistics say. People lie. 

I'll add this as well (if I haven't before) my ex-wife obviously wanted a divorce because she was unhappy. So go find happiness. Just understand, that you finding your happiness at the expense of tearing down what you helped built. Is going to fall on you someday. 

Go find your happiness. I and my son will find our own. Hopefully someday we can be "amicable" in terms of our interactions. Hopefully one day we have regular child swaps that don't include her thinking what her opinion of me is. 

In the meantime. I will enjoy what has been given to me. A new day, I new life, a chance to make me and my sons lives as best as possible. 

And one day upgrade to the wife I deserve.


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## EnjoliWoman

As I read the different stories, I always wonder about the other side. Especially from a bitter spouse. Mostly because I'm SURE of what my ex is telling others. 

In my ex's eyes, he fell in love with me tried hard to run his own business with my help. He would get so frustrated when I didn't try very hard. He thought I was careless in many ways such as car accidents or losing a target (we were PIs). He would tell you that I never listened, that I was stoic, had no passions in life, was lazy (because I needed more sleep than him) and low sex drive. He would also acknowledge that he shoved me because he was trying to get my attention and make me listen. He would tell you first that I coddled our child and then that I talked badly about him to her. He would also say that i had an affair with my boss because we left he parking deck at the same time one day. AND that I just wouldn't "sit down at the kitchen table and work it out".

REALITY (Mine and actual reality):

I fell in love (or admiration, not sure) and tried to help him in his business. I was proud of him. But I was not good at the same things he was even though I tried. He constantly criticized which made me even MORE afraid of making mistakes, MORE timid, MORE nervous. I am calm, unruffled, level-headed, practical. I do not have a specific passion or cause that I'm passionate about. I don't honestly know if I'm LD or HD or somewhere in the middle. The fact I didn't want to have sex was because he wanted sex ever night, was critical of my body and my intelligence/skills so I did nto feel emotionally connected, I do not respond to "wanna fvck?" as foreplay nor do I want to have sex immediately after throwing up (he actually asked). I did not feel special, loved, sexy or appreciated. He wanted sex in the morning as if to mark his territory, not out of loving desire. But I usually gave it because it wasn't worth the fight. I went to work exhausted because he was pissed if I couldn't keep my eyes open past 11pm and on occasion after dozing off while he was talking to me, he would keep me up as long as he could out of punishment. Words escalated to shoving, to choking, hitting and toward the end spitting and threatening with a gun. I did not coddle our daughter - yes when she was a baby if she needed me I went to her. I reassured her when we were fighting and he frightened her with his yelling. I asked him to go to counseling and he only said he just needed to control his temper and he didn't want anyone knowing his business. I tried to point out what things were hurtful. Finally I gave up, sought counsel, left, divorced. At this point our daughter was older and HE started to coddle her as his progeny she could do no wrong. He told her lies about me including accusing me of an affair. 

I find it very interesting thinking about his viewpoint. How skewed and different his perspective is. I often wonder about other people - how different the two stories would be. One is usually closer to the truth than the other.

Just an observation - not a commentary on anywhere here. I just tend to always think about the other side of ANY story or situation.


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## Awakening2012

Agree, there are two sides to every story and "truth" is in the eye of the beholder.


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## hope4family

Awakening2012 said:


> Agree, there are two sides to every story and "truth" is in the eye of the beholder.


Some people can lie until it becomes the truth. 

I'm not perfect, and am more then ready to own up to my personality faults. 

But when I sat in MC and heard her telling lies in the form of "changing a story" to benefit her "victim" status.


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