# My wife the liar, how could she do this to me.



## shocs12

My wife and i have been married for 12 years, the trust i had in her is gone. I am a religous man who believes in virginity till marriage and when i met my wife she new all about my faith. After a month of getting to know her a bit i told her i was a virgin and wanted to marry a virgin woman. I told her there women who i know where raped or defiled who i would marry if they kept pure till marriage. Well she said she was a virgin and 2 years got married, she told me earliar that she broke her hymen cheerleading. Fast forward two kids and a happy marriage, but she was so uneasy around her friends when they visited, then one day her best friend blurted out how wonderful it was for me to have a partner with so much experience especially that i was a virgin. I was numb when i heard that, now i cant even look at my wife i dont eat her food am just in limbo. Has any gotten through such? I havent slept with her in over a month.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## couple

Nearly all women lie or fib, or bend the truth, or have 'selective memory' with regard to sex. Men too. Sad fact of life.


----------



## tacoma

I'm in direct opposition with your beliefs about no sex until marriage as it's just far too problematic in a relationship bound to have enough problems already.
(this OP and dozens of others are evidence of this fact)

However, she intentionally lied to secure your commitment.
It would be understandable if this were a deal breaker for you.

I advise trying to work it out however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shocs12

I have my beliefs and they have helped me make decisions that where good for my health. I cant get past the imagery of her acts. I keep thinking did she do this with them. Its so unfair because i was truthful to her and i let her make her decision of continuing our relationship then. But she never gave me the same option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Since you are a religious man, I would recommend that you talk to a religious marital counselor to advise you on how to proceed based on the teachings of your religion. This forum may not be able to provide the answers that you seek because of its secular nature.


----------



## Bartimaus

Everyone except Christ was and will aways be defiled from conception. No matter how holy you think you have been or think that you are...you will never be (in this world) nothing more than a corrupt sinner guilty of breaking the entire and whole law of God! If you can't forgive your wife then how do you think that God can forgive you? 
You might get torched with this thread.
I understand that you now have a reason to have lost trust but we are not under the law but under grace and you have the obligation because of Christs example to forgive your wife for that lie. Brother she wasn't pure and neither are you and neither am I. 
You sound to be either very young or very dogmatic and on a 'holiness' kick. Either way my friend you have alot of wakeing up to do and a hard life ahead of you if you can't except that your wife wasn't a virgin before marriage as she told you. 
I understand you being hurt though as I was under the impression that I married a virgin at the age of 19. But oh my what has transpired since then now has me looking back and thinking how foolish I was to want a Godly woman that would be and remain my virgin till death do us part and stake my heart and soul on anothers purity and Godly living. 'Welcome to my world...won't you come on in...' the old song says.Lol.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Bartimaus said:


> Everyone except Christ was and will aways be defiled from conception. No matter how holy you think you have been or think that you are...you will never be (in this world) nothing more than a corrupt sinner guilty of breaking the entire and whole law of God! If you can't forgive your wife then how do you think that God can forgive you?


Wow.

While I don't adhere to the original poster's views, the issue is this: he was lied to. This was a foundation of his marriage, which he now learned that is shattered. 

What are you more upset about, the lying wife or the poster seeking help?

Shocs - I imagine that this is a relatively known issue within religious denominations. There could be counseling material that focuses on this issue specifically, from a religouis-based counseling group.


----------



## golfergirl

Whip Morgan said:


> Wow.
> 
> While I don't adhere to the original poster's views, the issue is this: he was lied to. This was a foundation of his marriage, which he now learned that is shattered.
> 
> What are you more upset about, the lying wife or the poster seeking help?
> 
> Shocs - I imagine that this is a relatively known issue within religious denominations. There could be counseling material that focuses on this issue specifically, from a religouis-based counseling group.


I think poster's point was 'let thee who has not sinned cast the first stone'. 
It's a shock, deception and shakes you to the core. What kind of wife has she been for the marriage? Is she a good mom? Faithful? Loving? What does she say about her past? Is she willing to come clean? Let the shock wear off and speak with a counselor. 
I do respect your values, but maybe look at the bigger picture. Who she has gorwn to be.
On another note, what a crass friend to discuss that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

Maybe you should look into Focus on the Family online forums for more helpful support. In my opinion, the issue is deceipt, and no more. The woman wanted to be with you, and made a lie of omission. That is a powerful thing, knowing that her motivation was only to be with you. From the moment you came into her life, all thoughts of the past get pushed behind. Please don't let insecurities ruin a good thing. Speak to a pastoral counselor.


----------



## that_girl

Do you think it's something that will go away with time? That feeling of betrayal? I ask because it's been 12 years ...how has the marriage been? I don't know why she lied to you about her virginity--- you must be pretty awesome  She really wanted to keep you. 

I can understand how you feel though. I hate being lied to. It's a big deal to me. I really hope you can work through this emotionally and with your wife.


----------



## that_girl

golfergirl said:


> On another note, what a crass friend to discuss that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right? Holy crap, how old are these friends? So classy.


----------



## Halien

Maybe its a good idea just to stick to the deceipt that went on. To some people of religion, having sex with another person in a prior relationship is marriage in God's eyes. While I really, really hope and believe that isn't true (I can't even remember the names of more than a couple of them), it really isn't the point of the thread.


----------



## Whip Morgan

Shocs, if there is one near you, I'd try browsing through a religious bookstore. One near me has a relationship section, perhaps you could find something to begin reading through.


----------



## bryanp

I do not agree with your views but I respect them. The bottom line is that you married her under false pretenses. She deliberately lied to you. You have a core belief belief system and she was dishonest to you. She was very foolish to believe that it would not be found out.

What has your wife now told you about her past? What do you plan to do?


----------



## LovesHerMan

Ask her to apologize. Then decide if you can forgive her. You are learning that life is not black and white, but full of shades of gray. If you two can work past this, your marriage will be stronger than ever.

If you can learn to forgive, you will understand the true meaning of being a Christian.


----------



## shocs12

Does it matter how she has been in our marriage?? How am i suppose to know the core reason why she has been good to me, may be guilt? That she has been lying to me for 12 years. Some times our guilt makes us want to do great things to subdue our decietful actions. Shes slept with 8 guys, 3 of these guys are community friends, who when we go to parties we talk to them. I feel fooled, she says its the past but you know what its my present. I cant take that she probably was comparing or even reminincing about her sexual past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovesHerMan

It's tough that some of these guys are mutual friends. However, she wouldn't have had a happy marriage with you for 12 years if she was comparing you sexually to them. 

You need to tell her everything you are feeling, and give her a chance to apologize to you. I think she will want the opportunity to help you heal from this.


----------



## golfergirl

shocs12 said:


> Does it matter how she has been in our marriage?? How am i suppose to know the core reason why she has been good to me, may be guilt? That she has been lying to me for 12 years. Some times our guilt makes us want to do great things to subdue our decietful actions. Shes slept with 8 guys, 3 of these guys are community friends, who when we go to parties we talk to them. I feel fooled, she says its the past but you know what its my present. I cant take that she probably was comparing or even reminincing about her sexual past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


95 percent matters who she is now. Have you ever made a mistake? In her beliefs, sleeping with others isn't a mistake. She doesn't share that belief of yours. Lying is her mistake.
I understand you're upset, but drop the holier than thou attitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

golfergirl said:


> 95 percent matters who she is now. Have you ever made a mistake? In her beliefs, sleeping with others isn't a mistake. She doesn't share that belief of yours. Lying is her mistake.
> I understand you're upset, but drop the holier than thou attitude.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I strongly disagree. When he met her he was very adamant with regards to his religious beliefs and to the importance of him marrying a virgin. 
*
Her lying is NO mistake but a deliberate choice to deceive him into believing that she was something she was not.* He entered into the marriage under false pretenses. If she was capable of this kind of deceit what else is she capable of doing since they got married?

You and I may not agree with regards to his religious beliefs but they are his and we should respect them and not shame him for having them.


----------



## Chaparral

shocs12 said:


> Does it matter how she has been in our marriage?? How am i suppose to know the core reason why she has been good to me, may be guilt? That she has been lying to me for 12 years. Some times our guilt makes us want to do great things to subdue our decietful actions. Shes slept with 8 guys, 3 of these guys are community friends, who when we go to parties we talk to them. I feel fooled, she says its the past but you know what its my present. I cant take that she probably was comparing or even reminincing about her sexual past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your fears are all about your insecurities. Get counseling.
It sounds like she's been a good wife. You will be a fool if you throw this marriage away over this.

I know you dont see any humor in this but almost all women used to lie about this.


----------



## aug

Starting a marriage based on deceit is always a bad idea. Here's an example.

Will this discovery be the start of a slow disintegration of the marriage? Once faith and trust in the spouse is breached, now what?

I would say she wasnt smart enough to disengage with her past friends. And she's still hanging around her past lovers. 

There are danger signs all over.


----------



## Bartimaus

Whip Morgan said:


> Wow.
> 
> While I don't adhere to the original poster's views, the issue is this: he was lied to. This was a foundation of his marriage, which he now learned that is shattered.
> 
> What are you more upset about, the lying wife or the poster seeking help?
> 
> Shocs - I imagine that this is a relatively known issue within religious denominations. There could be counseling material that focuses on this issue specifically, from a religouis-based counseling group.


Maybe I wasn't clear enough about what I am upset about.
It is that he seems to want out of this marriage because of a lie she told him very early on,years ago. And though with the info.we have so far she seems to have been faithful since the vows..or did I miss something? I am not really upset but speaking from a 57 year man's perspective that knows that though his reasoning is right to have wanted a virgin and she lied about being one that he is coming across to me as a man that's wanting to base everything they have on her being pure in her sex life previously,before marraige and he impresses me as someone that is depending on everything in life that this other person has been a holy saint before the vows . Nothing wrong with that desire but it is very,very unrealistic especially should the two of them live in the USA. He may be viewing her from what he thinks is Gods perspective and not viewing himself and her from his own sinful lifes perspective. Sure she seems to have told a bad lie but he is under obligation to forgive her if indeed she has been faithful since the vows. 
In comparison...the things that she could have done if she wanted to ***** around since the vows,would make the things that she done before the vows look like simple little nothings!
You don't put full trust in anothers excuses, lies,or even their current behavior even if there is a self-made halo they wear. You will be hurt and let down. Only one can be trusted,God. This is what I think he needs to come to terms with. And to ask himself how did God view him before he came to God? 
Not excusing her at all. But there are alot of guys on here that would just laugh at the idea of being devastated over what their woman was before the vows,as compared to what she has been and done "SINCE' the vows.


----------



## couple

We have very different morals. I have no problem with a partner/wife having sex before me. I do however, feel that a person's sexual past is a very important part of who they are. Sexuality is a very important part of a person and a person's sexuality is significantly shaped by their past sexual experiences.

It's sad that people feel that they need to lie about their past with their partners. It's understandable though why they do when they feel that they will not be accepted for it. Because sexuality is so important in a person, I have a hard time with hidden pasts. It's kind of like being with someone and having no idea who their parents are or where they grew up or what kind of schooling they have had.


----------



## morituri

aug said:


> Starting a marriage based on deceit is always a bad idea. Here's an example.
> 
> Will this discovery be the start of a slow disintegration of the marriage? Once faith and trust in the spouse is breached, now what?
> 
> *I would say she want smart enough to disengage with her past friends. And she's still hanging around her past lovers.*
> 
> There are danger signs all over.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## Whip Morgan

Holier than thou attitude? OP just learned about his wife after years of believing in something that wasn't true. Additionally, some of his friends are men his wife has sex with before marriage. It can be very humiliating when everyone knows but him. He has a right to be humiliated and angry. Those emotions aren't based only on religion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arnold

In contract law, there is a concept called "fraud in the inducement", I think. It voids the contract.
I think this guy is justifed n feeling baboozled. It has nothing to do with my views on pre-marital sex and everything to do with being defrauded.
Attacking his view on the importance of virginity is a red herring.


----------



## morituri

shocs12, have you consulted with religious counselors regarding your situation?


----------



## michzz

aug said:


> Starting a marriage based on deceit is always a bad idea. Here's an example.
> 
> Will this discovery be the start of a slow disintegration of the marriage? Once faith and trust in the spouse is breached, now what?
> 
> I would say she wasnt smart enough to disengage with her past friends. And she's still hanging around her past lovers.
> 
> There are danger signs all over.


I agree. 

Is the past really past if she still socialized with these people.

Btw, the friend who told on her sounds crass, but had some reason for airing this.

I'd want to know if there is more that friend could reveal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

michzz said:


> I agree.
> 
> Is the past really past if she still socialized with these people.
> 
> I guess my point is, if this is based on religious beliefs then forgiveness is the basis of those beliefs. And not forgiving and divorcing is a 'sin' on the same level as a lie.
> If this is based on morals and pride, then forgiveness doesn't come in to play.
> The ability to lie on such a huge level for so many years is huge. But if she has been a loyal, respectful wife for 12 years. A true partner and good mom and upholds the morals she probably wished she had when she met you, is that not worth taking a breath and exploring if this can be solved and forgiven?
> What does she say?
> Your concern of her comparing partners sounds like pride speaking, not necessarily your religious beliefs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

golfergirl said:


> I guess my point is, if this is based on religious beliefs then forgiveness is the basis of those beliefs. And not forgiving and divorcing is a 'sin' on the same level as a lie.
> If this is based on morals and pride, then forgiveness doesn't come in to play.
> The ability to lie on such a huge level for so many years is huge. But if she has been a loyal, respectful wife for 12 years. A true partner and good mom and upholds the morals she probably wished she had when she met you, is that not worth taking a breath and exploring if this can be solved and forgiven?
> What does she say?


Just because a thief has not stolen in years doesn't absolve him/her from facing the consequences of the past.



> Your concern of her comparing partners sounds like pride speaking, not necessarily your religious beliefs.


And why should he not feel this way? When we (male and female) were betrayed, weren't there times that we also compared ourselves to our cheating spouses lovers? Not only that but she has continued being friends with previous lovers unbeknownst to him who they were to begin with.

Just like in affairs, it is not just the sex with a lover that hurts but more so the lies and deception to his/her betrayed spouse which causes him/her the most painful injury.


----------



## Locard

Ouch. That hurts. Do you have children?


----------



## aug

Locard said:


> Ouch. That hurts. Do you have children?


He mentioned 2 kids in the first post.

Hmmm, I wonder if he needs to do paternity tests on them? The test are fairly inexpensive, about $100 each.


----------



## sadcalifornian

Well, in this day of age, seeking a virgin seems a bit too conservative, but then again, there are people who seem OK with open marriage and swapping, and there are people who try to hang on to the extreme end of conservatism and purity. So, I respect and understand your sentiment. I think your premise of marriage with your W has been found to be based on deceit. 

Frankly, you are screwed now, since I know you cannot divorce her because of this, and your W knows this too. There is not much you can do other than some apologies you can get out of her. Beyond that, I don't know what you can do. 

Her past sexual partners were people you have been interacting without knowing hurts very much as well. Although I never sought a virgin, if I had found out my W led me to interact with people she had sex with without telling me, I would be enraged and humiliated as well. In your case, the hurt would be much much worse. 

No answer here. You just have to suck it up, I guess. Sorry.


----------



## golfergirl

morituri said:


> Just because a thief has not stolen in years doesn't absolve him/her from facing the consequences of the past.
> 
> 
> 
> And why should he not feel this way? When we (male and female) were betrayed, weren't there times that we also compared ourselves to our cheating spouses lovers? Not only that but she has continued being friends with previous lovers unbeknownst to him who they were to begin with.
> 
> Just like in affairs, it is not just the sex with a lover that hurts but more so the lies and deception to his/her betrayed spouse which causes him/her the most painful injury.


I agree with all but just like an affair, take step back and look at big picture and if fixable. Decide what she can do if anything to fix it. If the 12 years were good, aren't they worth exploring if repairable before pulling plug? If pulling plug is even an option based on OP's beliefs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arnold

I think he would be more amanble to forgiving, had she come to him and admitted the lie and asked for forgiveness.
As someone mentioned, living that lie all this time also speaks volumes about her, in additon to the initial lying.
It was terribly wrong and selfish of her to have done this. There is no obligation to extend the gift of forgiveness. 
Is she remorseful at all?


----------



## cowgirl70

You need to forgive!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Ya know, I think I can empathize with the OP. I would feel fooled too, knowing now that the men she slept with are mutual friends. How awkward. Now he not only knows she slept with others before marriage but he knows WHO THEY ARE. I think that's worse.

On a personal note, my father was a cad (RIP) and had 2 children older than myself that I still have never met. My mother believed I was his first child. That she was his first marriage. Wrong. I found out one night from my dad when he and I went drinking (I was 21). I was shocked. I was mortified. I never told my mom. Why? Because that would make her whole marriage a lie. EVEN THOUGH they divorced, I couldn't burst that bubble for her.

So, to the OP...i feel for you, I really do. I also hope, in time, that things can be smoothed out.


----------



## ClipClop

I love how ppl tell the op to abandon his values because they themselves do not hold them and further because it means that they too would fall from this ideal.

The op believes what he does, has compassion for women who were raped and would marry one if he fell in love with them. His wife knew his values and lied to get him. That is horribly selfish and unloving. But what bothers me most is that others who are far less important knew what her husband did not.

She needs religious counselling, not him. 

And as far as values are concerned, I thought on this forum, ppl would understand how much deception hurts. Being deceived into marriage is horrible to experience. I'm seeing that a lot of people can't see someone else's pain if it involves conviction. I find that ironic since so called liberals give everything else a pass and say to each his own except in such cases. Lying and marriage do not go together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

Why is this thread in CWI?

Has there been an infidelity?


----------



## that_girl

> But what bothers me most is that others who are far less important knew what her husband did not.


Yea, that bothers me too...it's embarrassing and total betrayal.


----------



## that_girl

tacoma said:


> Why is this thread in CWI?
> 
> Has there been an infidelity?


Par the OP, I think he considers it cheating.


----------



## ClipClop

It feels like it to him. 

Why was it necessary to ask that question? Another way of showing contempt for his convictions I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shocs12

Forgiving her is going to be a long process, til then i dont want her near me for now. People say the past makes you who you are, i believe the past is there to remind us where we come from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shocs12

tacoma said:


> Why is this thread in CWI?
> 
> Has there been an infidelity?


to me its all the same, isnt infedelity decieving,lying? Thats how i feel. She betrayed my trust, she is selfish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

shocs12 said:


> to me its all the same, isnt infedelity decieving,lying? Thats how i feel. She betrayed my trust, she is selfish.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you're seriously over reacting.

While I`ve already stated that the lie she is guilty of is understandably a deal breaker for you, to state that her sex life before you were involved constitutes infidelity is overly dramatic.

Simply incorrect by any definition of the word.


----------



## tacoma

ClipClop said:


> It feels like it to him.
> 
> Why was it necessary to ask that question? Another way of showing contempt for his convictions I guess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps you should read my first post in this thread before you attempt to "divine" my intent.

There are people here who are truly suffering from infidelity.

What this man is suffering from is not.


----------



## chattycathy

Other than this one, horribly upsetting lie about her past, how has she been as a wife? Has she been a good friend, supportive, loyal, patient? Has she shown that she loves you?
You two could find a faith based counselor to work this out.
She is yours now. No one elses. Yours. True to you now.

If she lied about this, you meant so much to her that she knew the only way she could marry you was if she didn't tell you her truth.

Be open to forgiving her and welcoming her partnership as your wife should she be otherwise a decent woman.


----------



## sadcalifornian

Frankly, I don't have such strong resenment about her lying about her virginhood just because of how I am. However, the part that bothered me was the fact that she allowed her H to interact with those men she had sex with without telling him her past relationship with them. Knowing her H's value system, she made her H feel like an idiot talking to all these guys who slept with her, and this must cut deep. To me, this seems a double betrayal of sort.


----------



## ClipClop

tacoma said:


> Perhaps you should read my first post in this thread before you attempt to "divine" my intent.
> 
> There are people here who are truly suffering from infidelity.
> 
> What this man is suffering from is not.


I guess you get to define infidelity for everyone else then. You are minimizing how he feels. He feels he has been cheated on. I would say he has been robbed. She cheated. Cheating is dishonest and she led him to marriage with this lie. She stole his virginity with this lie. 

I really think you don't get how devastating it can be to have someone con you into something so important. He was left with no choice because she withheld the information. She cared more about herself than him.

She sounds like a cheater to me.

If you don't share his values the least you can do is accept that he knows how he feels whether it meets your definition. Arrogance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arnold

ClipClop said:


> I love how ppl tell the op to abandon his values because they themselves do not hold them and further because it means that they too would fall from this ideal.
> 
> The op believes what he does, has compassion for women who were raped and would marry one if he fell in love with them. His wife knew his values and lied to get him. That is horribly selfish and unloving. But what bothers me most is that others who are far less important knew what her husband did not.
> 
> She needs religious counselling, not him.
> 
> And as far as values are concerned, I thought on this forum, ppl would understand how much deception hurts. Being deceived into marriage is horrible to experience. I'm seeing that a lot of people can't see someone else's pain if it involves conviction. I find that ironic since so called liberals give everything else a pass and say to each his own except in such cases. Lying and marriage do not go together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very well stated.I t amazes me that some people cannot make the distinnction between whether they feel his values are valid and the real issue re:lying to trap someone into marriage. WTF,Suppose a gay person lies about his or her sexuality to trap a partner? No difference.


----------



## NotLikeYou

shocs12 said:


> to me its all the same, isnt infedelity decieving,lying? Thats how i feel. She betrayed my trust, she is selfish.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, wait. What makes infidelity so horrible is that your spouse lies about what he or she was doing with another person? If they would just say, "Honey, I was banging the neighbor like the gong in a buddhist temple," that would be okay, because honesty would kill the pain of your spouse exchanging bodily fluids with somebody else? Dang. Here I thought that the pain of infidelity was caused mainly by the spouse getting naked with somebody else. I always figured that if they didn't do that, they wouldn't have to lie about it and cause more pain, but apparently, lying is the main component of infidelity. Got it.

What an amazing definition of infidelity you have!

Depending on her original motivations, your wife did anything from falsely representing herself as pure in order to secure a nice meal ticket to finding you so attractive that she was willing to lie about something very important to you, in order for you to consider her a suitable wife. And the truth is..... well, you don't know, because your pride is grievously butthurt, and you haven't bothered to figure it out. 

If you had had a little bit more worldly experience with women you might have known that they sometimes lie about stuff, but, hey, you made the choice to remain true to your convictions, and ignorance is bliss, right up until it isn't blissful because you're no longer quite as ignorant as you were.

Unfortunately, your wife's omission of her sexual history has caused you to socialize with some of her previous partners. and that was truly a crappy thing to inflict on you. That, to me, is definitely worth staying mad over. 

You're obviously very upset about this situation, and the best advice I can think of has already been offered- seek some counseling from someone within your religion. As I recall, pride is one of the deadly sins and forgiveness is one of the virtues. It sounds like you could use some help with both. 

Maybe you could talk to your wife and tell her how badly she has hurt you? I mean, I know she's a sinner in the hands of an angry God and all, and a man of your superior moral posture has no business soiling his person talking to such a wicked sinful creature, but, really, you should try.


----------



## Arnold

Well, pride may not be an issue here. He specifically informed his wife that virginity was important to him. He trusted her to be truthful. She betayed that trust, thus depriving him of the ability to make an informed decision.
Why someone would do this, is beyond me. It ceratinly is not loving or respectful, and those qualities would seem to be important in a marriage.
His level of experience with women or the frequency with which this is lied about is immaterial. This did not come about as the result of his lack of experience(as if that is something to be ashamed of) or because other women have lied about this. It happened because his wife made a unilateral decison that he was not entitled to make an informed decision about something as sacred as marriage.


----------



## that_girl

And for 12 years! Letting him get to know her previous lovers unbeknownst to him.

Bleh.


----------



## Arnold

tacoma said:


> Why is this thread in CWI?
> 
> Has there been an infidelity?


It's okay. I authorized it. Carry on.


----------



## tacoma

ClipClop said:


> I guess you get to define infidelity for everyone else then. You are minimizing how he feels. He feels he has been cheated on. I would say he has been robbed. She cheated. Cheating is dishonest and she led him to marriage with this lie. She stole his virginity with this lie.
> 
> I really think you don't get how devastating it can be to have someone con you into something so important. He was left with no choice because she withheld the information. She cared more about herself than him.
> 
> She sounds like a cheater to me.
> 
> If you don't share his values the least you can do is accept that he knows how he feels whether it meets your definition. Arrogance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You assume far too much about everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NotLikeYou

Arnold said:


> Well, pride may not be an issue here. He specifically informed his wife that virginity was important to him. He trusted her to be truthful. She betrayed that trust, thus depriving him of the ability to make an informed decision.
> Why someone would do this, is beyond me. It certainly is not loving or respectful, and those qualities would seem to be important in a marriage.
> His level of experience with women or the frequency with which this is lied about is immaterial. This did not come about as the result of his lack of experience(as if that is something to be ashamed of) or because other women have lied about this. It happened because his wife made a unilateral decision that he was not entitled to make an informed decision about something as sacred as marriage.


Man, Arnold, I don't know where to start!

It takes a person of rare intellect to combine the statements "he trusted her to be truthful" and "his experience with women or the frequency with which this is lied about is immaterial" in the same post to make a point. Since you missed it, I will say it plainly- IF he had more experience with women, he might not have been so trusting. That is entirely the point. If he chose to steer clear of intimate relationships until marriage, that's his business, and he is welcome to it. He is also welcome to the results, which he is now having to deal with.

"Why someone would do this, is beyond me. It certainly is not loving or respectful, and those qualities would seem to be important in a marriage."

Yeah. Hmmm. Maybe his wife wasn't too proud of herself for having been promiscuous. Maybe she met the OP and was amazed to find such a devout and decent man. Maybe she looked around and said to herself, "guys like this are one in a million, and I will do whatever I can to become his wife and love and respect and cherish him forever after." And so, when he explained to her how important it was to him that she be virginal, she said, "he'll never know," and, being younger herself, didn't much think about what would happen years later when her previous history came to light.


Naw, it couldn't be anything like that. It had to be because she was a lying treacherous harlot, acting out of evil motives to ruin our poor hero's life. 

OP doesn't mention her cheating on him after they took their vows. He doesn't list out her failings as a wife and a mother. I'll go out on a limb here and bet that she attends the same church as he does, so she respects his religion. He doesn't gripe about her spending all his money, or going out for Girls Nights Out. The OP is upset because his wife lied to him about something 12 years ago and then seems to have been a pretty solidly good wife ever since. 

Yeah, where did I get the idea that his pride might be bruised, anyway? Personally, I think his wife did him wrong, and should have been honest with him from the get-go. He wanted an honest virgin, and he got neither.


----------



## Chaparral

ClipClop said:


> She stole his virginity with this lie.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think this is pretty par for the course. In the recent past all girls proclaimed their virginity. More to keep their partner from being embarassed with his inexperience than hiding their past.
This is a case of looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Wink wink nudge nudge.


----------



## aug

NotLikeYou said:


> Yeah. Hmmm. Maybe his wife wasn't too proud of herself for having been promiscuous. Maybe she met the OP and was amazed to find such a devout and decent man. Maybe she looked around and said to herself, "guys like this are one in a million, and I will do whatever I can to become his wife and love and respect and cherish him forever after." And so, when he explained to her how important it was to him that she be virginal, she said, "he'll never know," and, being younger herself, didn't much think about what would happen years later when her previous history came to light.


Yeah, that's it! That's why she still keeps company with her old lovers... /sarcasm


----------



## Chaparral

aug said:


> Yeah, that's it! That's why she still keeps company with her old lovers... /sarcasm


What's he doing hanging out with such low lifes?


----------



## TRy

NotLikeYou said:


> Yeah. Hmmm. Maybe his wife wasn't too proud of herself for having been promiscuous. Maybe she met the OP and was amazed to find such a devout and decent man. Maybe she looked around and said to herself, "guys like this are one in a million, and I will do whatever I can to become his wife and love and respect and cherish him forever after." And so, when he explained to her how important it was to him that she be virginal, she said, "he'll never know," and, being younger herself, didn't much think about what would happen years later when her previous history came to light.


What you are missing is that her friends and her past lovers were all in on the secret. They all kept it from him. He must have sounded like a fool talking to one of her past lovers or one of her friends about him and his wife having old fashion values about being virgins at marriage. 

Many men, even men that were sexually active, would not feel comfortable socializing with their wife's past lovers. He was not given that option because of this lie. This was not a 12 year old lie. The lying did not stop 12 years ago, it kept going until just now.


----------



## shocs12

PRIDE? Yes i agree my pride is hurt, who wouldnt be? When i held my wife so high just to find out shes just the same as the rest. I worked hard to give her a good life, my business are doing okay and she was my inspiration, my jewel i new many women dont wait till marriage so i worked harder for her. Now my jewels are my two girls. She should have told me, and yes i wouldnt have married her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

May I suggest you get your 2 daughters tested for paternity? The tests are inexpensive. Probably fatherhood is not an issue, but just in case for your peace of mind.


----------



## morituri

aug said:


> May I suggest you get your 2 daughters tested for paternity? The tests are inexpensive. Probably fatherhood is not an issue, but just in case for your peace of mind.


:iagree:

I would also suggest that she undergo a polygraph test to help find out if she has ever cheated on you during the time the two of you have been together.

Lastly, consider placing VARs (voice activated recorders) underneath the drivers seat of her car and in every room inside your home. And if you can afford it, hiring a PI to follow her around.

A woman who lied to her husband about her sexual past, had sex with 8 men prior to marriage, and who still maintains a continued friendship with 3 of her ex-lovers unbeknownst to her husband for more than twelve years, is a woman of dubious credibility.


----------



## shocs12

morituri said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I would also suggest that she undergo a polygraph test to help find out if she has ever cheated on you during the time the two of you have been together.
> 
> Lastly, consider placing VARs (voice activated recorders) underneath the drivers seat of her car and in every room inside your home. And if you can afford it, hiring a PI to follow her around.
> 
> A woman who lied to her husband about her sexual past, had sex with 8 men prior to marriage, and who still maintains a continued friendship with 3 of her ex-lovers unbeknownst to her husband for more than twelve years, is a woman of dubious credibility.


thats what am also thinking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Whip Morgan

I think in most threads, the combination of continued lying and maintaining contact with former lovers would have almost every poster here going "red flags!"

One of the most important things I've learned here is that a spouse keeping contact with past ex's is usually not a good thing. I think that applies to this case now, regardless of Shoc's religious beliefs.

Shoc, I assume you're feeling (in addition to anger over the lies) humiliation over this, how everyone knew but you. Particularly when you are friends with some of these men. You have not mentioned (unless I missed it) how your wife is reacting: is she showing signs of remorse over hurting you? 

I hope you're staying as composed as possible around her - any outburts of anger won't help anything. And have you been looking into any religious-based counseling? I'd start with your denomination's church/group first.


----------



## Bartimaus

RWB said:


> Agreed, she lied, but not unfaithful...
> 
> I would be more concerned about her remaining friends, seeing, socializing with former lovers... Inviting a future affair when time get tough... Like now.


Yes,to me this is the issue. She has shown some pretty incredable disrespect by socializing with them. This would upset most people I would think.
I am now wondering if this woman is naive,ignorant and blind to her husbands feelings should this ever be made known to him about these past lovers as current friends or if she has some unknown desire to have socialized with them? It doesn't 'appear' that she may be cheating on him but I can't figure out how she can be so blind to want the marriage to continue knowing that she told him a lie and that she is taking such a gamble being around past lovers?? Something doesn't add up! 
Maybe there is some more info. needed here other than what is being given. I just can't understand this. Has he since the vows,told her that it would be ok if she hadn't been a virgin and she feels safe interacting with past lovers? Geesh,,,this one has me bumfuzzeled...but that's not hard to accomplish.


----------



## NotLikeYou

shocs12 said:


> PRIDE? Yes i agree my pride is hurt, who wouldn't be? When i held my wife so high just to find out shes just the same as the rest. I worked hard to give her a good life, my business are doing okay and she was my inspiration, my jewel i new many women don't wait till marriage so i worked harder for her. Now my jewels are my two girls. She should have told me, and yes i wouldn't have married her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shocs- I actually do sympathize with your situation, even though it might not sound like it. As I said earlier, having you interact with previous partners and not knowing her history was crappy and worth staying pissed off about. 

You asked originally if anyone had been through something like this, and I can't say that I have.

But.

You probably aren't going to find too many people who have been through this kind of situation, due to the strength of your faith. No insult intended here- most people just aren't as devoted as you are.

So instead of trying to speculate about the situation, I would rather pose questions to you.

What do you want to do? Reconcile? Separate? Try to rebuild trust? Try to find out the truth? Try to start over with someone else? 

Your wife has hurt you deeply, and been really flat out stupid to have had you interacting with previous partners without having known it (although in her weak defense, you did say she has always been uncomfortable around her old friends). If you can put those actions off to the side, and evaluate your marriage, what kind of wife has she been? Was she meeting your needs before you found these things out? Was she your inspiration a month ago?

The reason I put these questions out here is that you probably need to answer them in order to start moving forward, towards whichever ending you want. 

That's really what it comes down to. Your wife violated your trust and your beliefs, and now you have to balance that against the good things she brought to the union.

What do you want to do?


----------



## frootloop

tacoma said:


> I think you're seriously over reacting.
> 
> While I`ve already stated that the lie she is guilty of is understandably a deal breaker for you, to state that her sex life before you were involved constitutes infidelity is overly dramatic.
> 
> Simply incorrect by any definition of the word.


Online webster shows:


> Definition of INFIDELITY
> 1: lack of belief in a religion
> 2 a : unfaithfulness to a moral obligation : disloyalty
> 2 b : marital unfaithfulness or an instance of it


Seems to me like you're the incorrect one.


----------



## sadcalifornian

Although as far as you know, she did not sleep with any OM, this is a serious betrayal of trust in marriage. I put this right up there with infidelity. Also, you have to know that a woman who had permiscuous life style before M has high likelihood of infidelity during M as well.


----------



## tacoma

frootloop said:


> Online webster shows:
> 
> 
> Seems to me like you're the incorrect one.



So when my wife lied to me about buying that $80.00 pair of shoes she was guilty of infidelity?

By your definition she was.

I`m not prepared to rape the English language in such a manner.

You feel free to twist it however you like though..enjoy.


----------



## that_girl

If my husband had me socializing with people he screwed before me and I didn't know about it, I would be mortified.

So...all the while when I'm talking to some chick about whatever, she's thinking "I banged your husband and you have no idea!"

Eff.That.


----------



## morituri

tacoma said:


> So when my wife lied to me about buying that $80.00 pair of shoes she was guilty of infidelity?
> 
> By your definition she was.
> 
> I`m not prepared to rape the English language in such a manner.
> 
> You feel free to twist it however you like though..enjoy.



There is such a thing as financial infidelity you know. If you don't believe me, look it up


----------



## Chaparral

I'm assuming your a Christian. As a Christian you have to forgive her if she asks for it.

Unless you can prove adultery you can't divorce her and go looking for a real virgin. 

From the lack of info I have to assume she has led a fine Christian life and done a wonderful job taking care of you and raising two wonderful girls.

I think you have saved this woman and she now sounds like a better person than you have become. You need to ask her forgiveness also. Talk to your pastor.

You certainly aren't acting man enough to save your family. I sure wish and pray this was the biggest problem posters on this site had to face.

In case I haven't made myself clear, I think your being ridiculous.


----------



## shazam

chapparal said:


> I'm assuming your a Christian. As a Christian you have to forgive her if she asks for it.
> 
> Unless you can prove adultery you can't divorce her and go looking for a real virgin.
> 
> From the lack of info I have to assume she has led a fine Christian life and done a wonderful job taking care of you and raising two wonderful girls.
> 
> I think you have saved this woman and she now sounds like a better person than you have become. You need to ask her forgiveness also. Talk to your pastor.
> 
> You certainly aren't acting man enough to save your family. I sure wish and pray this was the biggest problem posters on this site had to face.
> 
> In case I haven't made myself clear, I think your being ridiculous.


Not true really. There are a bunch of bible verses that indicate that he can divorce based on this, especially if he was a virgin. I would personally just do a lie detector test and ask questions like why she married him, if she was afraid of losing him, etc... One thing that needs to happen is those friends need to disappear.


----------



## that_girl

To say someone is ridiculous for how they feel is insulting.

He has every right to feel how he feels without being ridiculed, even if you do think he's making a big deal out of it.

I do think, with a little time, this will all work itself out. I think the initial shock brought him here to vent. And that's ok.


----------



## shazam

And not to add more problems to this, but imagine if she withholds sexually from him in order to pretend she's some pure virgin. Who knows what she's done with their friends or other guys.


----------



## morituri

that_girl said:


> To say someone is ridiculous for how they feel is insulting.
> 
> He has every right to feel how he feels without being ridiculed, even if you do think he's making a big deal out of it.
> 
> I do think, with a little time, this will all work itself out. I think the initial shock brought him here to vent. And that's ok.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

The man has been a victim of FRAUD perpetrated by the one person he trusted above all others, his partner for life, his wife. Compounding this is the humiliating disrespect she's shown during their 12 years of marriage by maintaining ties with 3 men who were her lovers before she met her husband.

IMNSHO his religious beliefs are irrelevant when the situation is framed in the terms I listed above.


----------



## Chaparral

morituri said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> The man has been a victim of FRAUD perpetrated by the one person he trusted above all others, his partner for life, his wife. Compounding this is the humiliating disrespect she's shown during their 12 years of marriage by maintaining ties with 3 men who were her lovers before she met her husband.
> 
> IMNSHO his religious beliefs are irrelevant when the situation is framed in the terms I listed above.


I generally agree with you Morituri but on this issue we have to part.

If this is a case of fraud a very large fraction of the population has been defrauded over the centuries. 

If people live in the same community they grew up in there is going to be contact with ex boy/girl friends. I doubt there is a group of people whispering behind OP's back about past relationships. Pretty much everyone is in the same boat. 

I note that OP has not mentioned any thing about the last 12 years. 

He has a higher responsibility to his family and as a gentleman than to act like this is the end of his world. 

I personally have no idea what my wife did before we became engaged and could care less. The proof is in the pudding.

If OP wishes to destroy his family that's up to him. I'm guessing as with most people he should worry less about the speck in someone elses eye and take care of the log in his. He might want to start with that pride thing.


----------



## golfergirl

My only thoughts on this is if OP considers this a dealbreaker, then by all means, it is his call and do what he must.
But HE brought up the religious angle which is what puts him between a rock and hard place. If his reasons are based on religious beliefs as HE said, then if his wife asks forgiveness, he must forgive and he cannot divorce.
If he does divorce, then he is as much a sinner as his lying wife.
On another note, because she had a promiscuous past, doesn't mean she's a cheating skank now. OP doesn't seem to have a bad word to say about her behaviour for past 12 years (other than poor choice in friends).
I don't know what I'd do. But I would base my decision more on past 12 years than the lie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

I do think, and I could be totally wrong, but that the OP came here to vent and will eventually get over it.

I have done that many times in life. What seems to be "the end of the world" doesn't seem so huge after some sleep and a chance to really think about it.


----------



## Whip Morgan

If this post was about Shoc's wife kept up counication with her ex boyfriends on Facebook, this board would be lit up saying she should not be emailing them. 

Yet she has maintained in person contact, with multiple men, under dishonest circumstances, for years. Yeah, there is a big problem there, he has every right to be upset and concerned about what else he may not know. Log in his eye- yeah, right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

If OP cant get over the breach of trust, he'll need to do something about it so that his ill feelings do not fester. 

He should gather more info about his 2 daughters, the past interactions with the 3 ex's, etc. Once he gets more info, he can decide what to do.


----------



## shocs12

Trust me guys, my two daughters are mine, am black and my wife is white and my babies are biracial. All her past exs where white.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

shocs12 said:


> Trust me guys, my two daughters are mine, am black and my wife is white and my babies are biracial. All her past exs where white.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am truly glad she didn't take that from you with her lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

So shocs, care to give us an update?


----------



## Bartimaus

There 'MAY' be one more thing worth taking into consideration here guys. Though highly unlikely in most of our minds it is a possibility. 
This is a christain couple. What she did was in the past. When one repents and turns to God their past sins are washed away and God forgets those sins. 
Could it be that this woman has been a faithful wife since the vows though she seems to have told an awful lie and decieved the huband before the vows and that she has expected the husband to see that she has been a devoted christain and faithful wife and expects the husband to understand that she has changed permanently,expects him to see her loyalty and devotion to God and that since that lie, has been a pure and changed woman that is innocent of any wrong since the vows. 
I may not be saying this right but if you understand my drift...maybe she has been ignorant by socializing with past lovers but in her mind thinks that should the husband ever find out, that she expects him to see her devotion and purity since the vows? Like her saying, "Yes I decieved you but I wanted a good man because I will now be a good christain faithful wife".
I mean...don't christains expect God to view them like this???? 
She does seem to have displayed a good amount of ignorance if the details we have are true! But could it be that she has been faithful since the vows and in her mind she is innocent because she has truly changed and somehow expects him to see this Godly change in her heart?
But she needs to repent to the husband of the deciet,sure but [[[IF]]] she has been true and faithful since the vows I think the responsibility of this whole thing falls upon the husband to now forgive and go on with the marriage. Though he might be justified in asking her alot of questions and justified in doing some checking her out.
Just a thought,who knows?


----------



## MrK

that_girl said:


> If my husband had me socializing with people he screwed before me and I didn't know about it, I would be mortified.
> 
> So...all the while when I'm talking to some chick about whatever, she's thinking "I banged your husband and you have no idea!"
> 
> Eff.That.


I am not a religious person. Not anti-religion, just agnostic. I have no problem w/ premarital sex. I think you should kick the tires before buying. My wife happened to be a virgin before we met. I wasn't looking for a virgin, that's just who I met and married.

But if today I found out that she'd had 8 previous sex partners, significantly more than I'd had, and that 3 of them were my friends? So how many mutual friends know about these relationships when he DIDN'T? Was it a joke in the neighborhood? "Hey, guess what? Shoes thinks his wife is a virgin. Me and Bob both banged her. And that guy Hank we met at the New Years party last year had her. And evidently she got around in college a little. Poor sap. I'd hate to be him".


----------



## morituri

MrK said:


> Poor sap. I'd hate to be him".


Guess what, you were a 'poor sap' and so was I and all of the men and women here who have been betrayed. The OP MAY have been saying the same thing about us, though in his/her case it was said more in a sadistic manner.


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

shocs12 said:


> but she was so uneasy around her friends when they visited, then one day her best friend blurted out how wonderful it was for me to have a partner with so much experience especially that i was a virgin.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This person wanted you to know for some reason. Why do you think? :scratchhead:

Drunk? Had a falling out with your wife? Mocking you? Wanted you to know about something still going on?


----------



## Arnold

I do not think it is ridiculous, at all. it is an important part of his faith and just because some of us do not have the same type of faith or value system does not invalidate his desire to abide by this.
I mayhave missed it, but has she even asked for forgivenss and has she offered to make amends.
I also agree that this type of fraud is grounds for annulment in some bible based faiths, although iam no scholar on that.


----------



## PHTlump

tacoma said:


> I'm in direct opposition with your beliefs about no sex until marriage as it's just far too problematic in a relationship bound to have enough problems already.
> (this OP and dozens of others are evidence of this fact)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Statistically, virgins who marry are significantly less likely to divorce than more experienced people. And as the number of prior partners increases, so do the odds of divorce.


----------



## PHTlump

tacoma; said:


> I`m not prepared to rape the English language in such a manner.


+1 for best ironic post. :smthumbup:


----------



## Arnold

PHTlump said:


> +1 for best ironic post. :smthumbup:


Good catch, PHT.


----------



## ClipClop

Ironic ppl blame him for being a virgin when the past is meaningless to those same apl. He was a virgin up until marriage. Sorry he can't go back and screw a bunch of women to prevent being lied to. 

Are you also blaming ppl who have been cheated on by their spouse for being naive? Would more premarital sex have saved them from being deceived, stolen from and humiliated? 

The logic is ridiculous, not this guy's beliefs or feelings.

This thread is an example why ppl suck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hicks

To the OP... What does your religious belief direct you to do? I will assume that you are a Christian but I'm not really sure that matters. What does God want you to do? He wants you to live up to your marital vows, raise and care for your children, and love your wife as you vowed to do. He will handle the judging of her sins.


----------



## aug

Hicks said:


> What does God want you to do? He wants you to live up to your marital vows, raise and care for your children, and love your wife as you vowed to do. He will handle the judging of her sins.



Does this theory also apply with adulterous spouse?


----------



## Hicks

aug said:


> Does this theory also apply with adulterous spouse?


I'm no expert in the bible, but I think that adultery is one of them 10 cemmandment thingies.


----------



## morituri

Some folks can't see past his religious beliefs and ridicule him for having them and yet they fail to acknowledge the great elephant in the living room *DECEPTION from his wife before and after marriage. Her deception makes everything about her and the marriage questionable.*


----------



## golfergirl

morituri said:


> Some folks can't see past his religious beliefs and ridicule him for having them and yet they fail to acknowledge the great elephant in the living room *DECEPTION from his wife before and after marriage. Her deception makes everything about her and the marriage questionable.*


It has nothing to do with ridiculing religious beliefs. But if you stand by your religion, you can't pick and choose what you follow. If you're devout, you believe it all - even the not so easy stuff. Even if a commandment was broken, if she asks forgiveness, he must give forgiveness. 
That's my only issue regarding the religion aspect. You can't pick and choose the parts that suit you. You believe it all or don't hide behind that aspect of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

golfergirl said:


> It has nothing to do with ridiculing religious beliefs. But if you stand by your religion, you can't pick and choose what you follow. If you're devout, you believe it all - even the not so easy stuff. Even if a commandment was broken, if she asks forgiveness, he must give forgiveness.
> That's my only issue regarding the religion aspect. You can't pick and choose the parts that suit you. You believe it all or don't hide behind that aspect of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We don't know for a fact if he's a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, etc. until he tells us, your assertion that he is picking and choosing is questionable.


----------



## Hicks

golfergirl said:


> It has nothing to do with ridiculing religious beliefs. But if you stand by your religion, you can't pick and choose what you follow. If you're devout, you believe it all - even the not so easy stuff. Even if a commandment was broken, if she asks forgiveness, he must give forgiveness.
> That's my only issue regarding the religion aspect. You can't pick and choose the parts that suit you. You believe it all or don't hide behind that aspect of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was my point exactly.


----------



## that_girl

Interesting about divorce rates of virgins compared to those who slept around.

I think it's more of a mindset. My previous partners were people I respected and cared greatly for..no ONS in my list. His were long term gfs. We can count the sum of our previous partners on two hands  

I have only known 2 couples where the man and woman were both virgins. Both couples are divorced now. Marriage lasted about 5 years each.


----------



## desert-rose

I'm sorry to hear that you feel so betrayed. However, it might be a good idea for you two to go to counseling together to see if it's an issue you can move past and forgive or not. She lied to you about something that was important to you and that's a shame. But...is the rest of the marriage good? Has she been faithful and loving and a good partner? Try to look at the big picture instead of the details and see if you can find a way to understand this situation. And, definitely go to counseling. I also recommend talking to a religious leader or counselor from your religion to help you make sense of this.


----------



## aug

What's forgiveness? It does not mean he has to stay married.


----------



## PHTlump

golfergirl said:


> It has nothing to do with ridiculing religious beliefs. But if you stand by your religion, you can't pick and choose what you follow. If you're devout, you believe it all - even the not so easy stuff. Even if a commandment was broken, if she asks forgiveness, he must give forgiveness.
> That's my only issue regarding the religion aspect. You can't pick and choose the parts that suit you. You believe it all or don't hide behind that aspect of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree that you should follow your religion regardless of whether it is convenient or easy. However, religion is often not cut and dried.

In Christianity, followers are commanded to forgive. However, it isn't explicit what that means. Does that mean the wrong-doer shouldn't face consequences? If so, should law-breakers be let off the hook if they ask for forgiveness? Is the criminal justice system violating Biblical precepts by punishing criminals?

In terms of marriage, Jesus himself allowed for divorce in the case of adultery. Does this mean Jesus didn't want adulterers to be forgiven? Certainly not. But the betrayed spouse certainly has options for proceeding that are each sanctioned by God.

Catholic marriage, which is viewed as a sacrament and thus not easily annulled, can be viewed as invalid ab initio when certain false pretenses are in place before the vows are exchanged. Although, I don't think lying about virginity would be sufficient reason for a Catholic annulment.


----------



## MrK

Will you people take your private discussion about religion and virginity elsewhere? This poster needs to know what to do about 12 years of serious betrayal in his life.

OP - I don't remember where you have talked to your wife about this yet. It's all just been dumped on you, but not by her. Have you spoken to her? Does she know you know? What did she say? Does she show remorse? Why did she do it? She must be smarter than to think it would never come out. 

You're going to have to start by talking to her. There's no other way. Make sure you have a plan when you do. A script. But also know that the script will go awry as soon as her lips start moving. 

And ignore the idiots that questioned your "right" to be posting in this section. You have a serious problem and need help. If a moderator feels you're in the wrong section, they'll move you.

Good luck.


----------



## sadcalifornian

that_girl said:


> Interesting about divorce rates of virgins compared to those who slept around.
> 
> I think it's more of a mindset. My previous partners were people I respected and cared greatly for..no ONS in my list. His were long term gfs. We can count the sum of our previous partners on two hands
> 
> I have only known 2 couples where the man and woman were both virgins. Both couples are divorced now. Marriage lasted about 5 years each.


I believe permiscuity before M is a huge factor, but more importantly it is the maturity that matters more.


----------



## Saffron

It is an issue of trust. When you take many of us on this thread dealing with whatever level of betrayal we experienced, it all boils down to trust.

I trusted my husband to be faithful, he was not. I thought I'd divorce if my spouse ever broke our vows, but I've decided to work on the marriage. I no longer trust him like I did the past 15 years, but there's an opportunity to have a better relationship and marriage regardless. We have a new definition of trust now, it's no longer blind.

Your wife broke your trust, but she didn't trust you enough to tell the truth in the first place. Maybe you loved her enough to marry despite her lack of virginity, but she probably didn't believe that your love for her was stronger than your religious beliefs.

You could take this as an opportunity to become closer to your wife, get to know the part of her she's kept hidden from you. It's very difficult for people to reveal the side of themselves they deem unloveable or ugly, because we don't trust that we'll still be loved despite it.

If you would've chosen to end the relationship prior to getting married had your wife revealed her sexual experience, then you might not be capable of moving forward. She was wrong to hide her past from you, but she was not wrong in her assesment that religion was/is more important than your relationship. If you feel you would've married her regardless, then it may be possible to move forward. There's still a trust issue, but at least you'd feel like you would've still chosen this woman for your wife regardless of her past. 

Your wife lied, but she can be truthful in the future. This is something you can work on in your marriage if you choose to move forward. However, your wife's past can not be changed. If her prior sexual history is a deal breaker for you, then there may be nothing to be done. 

Keep in mind that the mind movies will fade and it may be better to get her past all out in the open. If you do decide to R, you might need to get full disclosure in order to bury it in the past. Just remember, it was all long in the past. She did these things before she even knew you. Some of us have to deal with mind movies that occured after our vows were spoken and yet we are still willing to R. It can be done if it's what you want.


----------



## that_girl

sadcalifornian said:


> I believe permiscuity before M is a huge factor, but more importantly it is the maturity that matters more.


:scratchhead:? Regarding the OP or your own life...


----------



## Arnold

I've read that both the number of partners and the age at which one becomes sexually active are indicaotrs of the probability of cheating.


----------



## that_girl

Arnold said:


> I've read that both the number of partners and the age at which one becomes sexually active are indicaotrs of the probability of cheating.


Which would be?


----------



## shocs12

that_girl said:


> Interesting about divorce rates of virgins compared to those who slept around.
> 
> I think it's more of a mindset. My previous partners were people I respected and cared greatly for..no ONS in my list. His were long term gfs. We can count the sum of our previous partners on two hands
> 
> I have only known 2 couples where the man and woman were both virgins. Both couples are divorced now. Marriage lasted about 5 years each.


maybe the husband or wife found out one of them was not a virgin. To answer everybody question am christian.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

shocs12 said:


> maybe the husband or wife found out one of them was not a virgin. To answer everybody question am christian.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, they were. I was close to all. Not THAT close to know personally, but I do believe they all were.

One man became addicted to porn and it led to some bad things. Job loss and molestation of his daughter (he said it was the porn...I think he was just sexually twisted). They were Christian. Missionaries in the Philippines to be exact. We were all childhood friends.

The other woman of the other couple realized she didn't like sex at all and didn't want to be obligated to do it.


----------



## shocs12

I have spoken to my wife, she does feel remorsefull and says that she didnt mean to hurt, she says she did it out of love and not wanting to lose me, she new i had dumped previous women because they where not virgins. Tha only problem i have is she doesnt regret sleeping with them guys because she says it has made her a better person. I have no idea what that means.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Why should she regret sleeping with them? It was all in the past.

She should be remorseful of lying to you though. There's no excuse for that, even if she thought there was.


----------



## Arnold

People can regret past actions, that. In fact, I think the only things one can regret are in the past.
It seems inconsistent with Shoc's values that she would not regret it.


----------



## Arnold

shocs12 said:


> I have spoken to my wife, she does feel remorsefull and says that she didnt mean to hurt, she says she did it out of love and not wanting to lose me, she new i had dumped previous women because they where not virgins. Tha only problem i have is she doesnt regret sleeping with them guys because she says it has made her a better person. I have no idea what that means.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shoc, how is she, intellectually? That "better person" stuff seems quite idiotic.


----------



## that_girl

Arnold said:


> People can regret past actions, that. In fact, I think the only things one can regret are in the past.
> It seems inconsistent with Shoc's values that she would not regret it.


True. Although, at the time, she did it-- by choice. I can see if she planned to be a virgin for marriage and then slept around and felt bad. Maybe she didn't feel bad for sleeping with them. What's done is done...why regret?

I was just saying that her 'regret' should be the lying.


----------



## Arnold

that_girl said:


> Which would be?


The younger and greater # of partners, the more likely to cheat.


----------



## aug

shocs12 said:


> I have spoken to my wife, she does feel remorsefull and says that she didnt mean to hurt, she says she did it out of love and not wanting to lose me, she new i had dumped previous women because they where not virgins.* Tha only problem i have is she doesnt regret sleeping with them guys because she says it has made her a better person.* I have no idea what that means.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The "no regrets" makes sense if she thought sleeping around made her a better person. Into someone who didnt mind using deceit in an important life decision? 

I hate to see what she was like before she slept with them guys.


----------



## morituri

WOW I didn't know that having pre-marital sex with other women would make me a better man, but hey I'm willing to give it a try. OWW!! -GF just gave me jab on the side


----------



## Arnold

:lol::lol: Nice.
No wonder I am such a ****. My wife was my first lover.


----------



## that_girl

I wouldn't say my past lovers made me a better person....but I don't regret sleeping with them. I was picky and they meant something to me at the time. *shrug* But I don't have strong religious convictions, so what do I know about this anyway.


----------



## sadcalifornian

that_girl said:


> :scratchhead:? Regarding the OP or your own life...


More like in general.


----------



## morituri

Even though in this case there was no breaking of marital vows - that we know of - the trust OP had in his wife has been completely broken. So much so that it is possible that he may even be questioning whether she has continued having sex with other men, including the 3 men who were her lovers and which she has kept close ties with. 

The only possible way I can see of putting these doubts to rest is if his wife agrees to take a polygraph test. If she passes, and he chooses not to divorce her, she is going to have to submitt to total transparency and be accountable to him about her whereabouts.


----------



## shocs12

A better person in a sense that, she knows what she wants now and that she wouldnt go to another man because she knows whats out there. What if she brought some incurrable disease from out there. Since she does nt regret, she must be comparing me to her lovers. Why should i get a wife who was soiled for free and i provided security, food and shelter, emotional support while those guys it was just a fun thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Well, if you can't forgive, then you'll have to move on. Seeing that you're Christian, isn't divorce out of the question?

I mean, calling her 'soiled'? Good grief. A liar, yes. Soiled? Hrm.


----------



## shocs12

that_girl said:


> Well, if you can't forgive, then you'll have to move on. Seeing that you're Christian, isn't divorce out of the question?
> 
> I mean, calling her 'soiled'? Good grief. A liar, yes. Soiled? Hrm.


yes soiled.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ClipClop

I have no idea what to statistics about virgins have to do with this marriage . which 1
With 50 percent of marriages ending in divorce . About 50 percent of men admit to cheating . therefore if your husband cheats on you can't get upset about it . of course if you weren't a virgin it's less likely for that to happen . because lord knows premarital sex makes you smarter .

This gets more and more ridiculous . 

I suspect who ever said that this man was just posting to vent and try to collect his thoughts was right . I very much hope then work it out . I really wish the people that don't share this man's values would just take it elsewhere. we get it . virginity bad religion is bad .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

that_girl said:


> I mean, calling her 'soiled'? Good grief. A liar, yes. Soiled? Hrm.


Can't you just agree to disagree about sin? Christianity teaches that premarital sex is a sin. I can accept that, regardless of whether or not I agree. Why can't you?


----------



## ClipClop

Because the anti religious are amongst the least tolerant ppl on the planet pht.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

shocs12 said:


> A better person in a sense that, she knows what she wants now and that she wouldnt go to another man because she knows whats out there. What if she brought some incurrable disease from out there. Since she does nt regret, she must be comparing me to her lovers. Why should i get a wife who was soiled for free and i provided security, food and shelter, emotional support while those guys it was just a fun thing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Better because she knows whats out there -- this make sense to me. And should be given some weight if she or you can prove she has been faithful throughout the marriage. 

But the fact that she still socializes with her ex-lovers (who are part of what's out there) negates the weight somewhat.


It's inevitable though for most people not to think of past lovers, especially the memorable (good or bad) ones.


----------



## morituri

shocs12 said:


> yes soiled.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What 'soiled' her is not so much that she wasn't a virgin before you married her but that she lied and deceived you so that you would marry her and still maintained friendship with 3 of her former lovers throughout all your marriage unbeknownst to you. THAT is what makes her soiled.


----------



## MrK

ClipClop said:


> Because the anti religious are amongst the least tolerant ppl on the planet pht.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know, right?

Look. See my post above. I'm not a religious person and have no problem with premaritlal sex, but she's done enough lying and deceiving to where I'm pretty sure I'd leave her. It would be hard to stay anyhow. Add a second big problem (the nature of the deceit) and I'm gone. People who share his religious convictions can comment on that part. If you don;t, you're just blowing steam. Give it a rest and help this man.


----------



## Halien

shocs12 said:


> Tha only problem i have is she doesnt regret sleeping with them guys because she says it has made her a better person. I have no idea what that means.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shocs12,

She's probably referring to a very common theme in the Bible. Are you trying to suggest that the prodigal son wasn't truly repentent when he asked his father to take him back, even as a servant? The father took him back because he saw that he had become a better person. He learned from his mistakes, and became wise.

You are posting this as a Christian theme, so my advice is to listen to what God wants you to do. Lying to you was a deception that impacted you, so you have a right to question it. But before saying that she is ruined as a woman for not being a virgin, are you willing to lay the same charges against yourself for your own sins?

Our religion is not a religion of saints here on earth. It is a religion of sinners with hope. Its about the only thing all of us have in common. So, I guess we're all soiled, right?


----------



## morituri

shocs12 said:


> The only problem i have is she doesn't regret sleeping with them guys because she says it has made her a better person. I have no idea what that means.


A truly Christian woman would have said the opposite of what she said and would never have kept her former lovers as friends and introduce them to her husband so that he would also become friends with them, all the while hiding from him the truth about what they were to her in the past.

With her justification mindset, it wouldn't surprise me if his wife has continued having sex with these men throughout the years that they've been married. I truly hope I'm dead wrong about this.


----------



## PHTlump

Halien said:


> She's probably referring to a very common theme in the Bible. Are you trying to suggest that the prodigal son wasn't truly repentent when he asked his father to take him back, even as a servant? The father took him back because he saw that he had become a better person. He learned from his mistakes, and became wise.


You're talking about repentance. Shocs said she thinks she's a better person not because she sinned and repented, but because she now has more experience than a virgin. That has nothing to do with Biblical principles.



Halien said:


> Our religion is not a religion of saints here on earth. It is a religion of sinners with hope. Its about the only thing all of us have in common. So, I guess we're all soiled, right?


Ours is a religion of redemption. All have sinned, but redemption is offered and it is possible to live a holy live after repentance. Shocs seems to relate that his wife is unrepentant. At least about her premarital sex. I think he said she regrets lying to him, but doesn't regret the sex.

I can understand the distress. It would be disconcerting to find out your wife robbed a bank before you were married and was only sorry that she didn't tell you about it.


----------



## morituri

I wish shocs12 would consult with a religious marital adviser that could guide him and help him make a decision that he could live with based on his religion's principles.


----------



## Halien

PHTlump said:


> You're talking about repentance. Shocs said she thinks she's a better person not because she sinned and repented, but because she now has more experience than a virgin. That has nothing to do with Biblical principles.


Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. I'm referring to what the OP said, and not the conjecture that has been supposed by others. I think that was the purpose of quoting him.

Look at this earlier statment from the OP.



> A better person in a sense that, she knows what she wants now and that she wouldnt go to another man because she knows whats out there.


This is what you would call a close paraphrase of what the prodigal son said to his father. She had seen what was out there. Now, she knows what she wants.

To suggest that she was actually equating this with the thrill of sowing her oats only applies to the conjecture of other posters, and an OP who takes a pre-christian (OT) view of the subjugate role of women. I think this thread makes an excellent Biblical principle. Jesus never called a woman soiled, and he talked to more than one 'non-virgins'. He made a point of stressing this.


----------



## PHTlump

Halien said:


> Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. I'm referring to what the OP said, and not the conjecture that has been supposed by others. I think that was the purpose of quoting him.


I was referring to his quote as well. I don't know how you got a sense of repentance from his quote. It wasn't there.

Let's look at a later sentence from the OP in the post you quoted.



shocs12 said:


> Since she does nt regret, she must be comparing me to her lovers.


So shocs is saying that his wife doesn't regret her premarital sex.



Halien said:


> This is what you would call a close paraphrase of what the prodigal son said to his father. She had seen what was out there. Now, she knows what she wants.


You misunderstand the parable of the prodigal son. The happy ending wasn't that he went out, had a good time, weighed his options, and ultimately decided that the pious life was for him after all with no regrets for his experimenting. The happy ending came after the son turned his back on his family, sinned, ended up as low as one can get, and was ultimately redeemed after turning his back on that life and turning back to a pious life. You can bet the prodigal son regretted his sins.



Halien said:


> To suggest that she was actually equating this with the thrill of sowing her oats only applies to the conjecture of other posters, and an OP who takes a pre-christian (OT) view of the subjugate role of women. I think this thread makes an excellent Biblical principle. Jesus never called a woman soiled, and he talked to more than one 'non-virgins'. He made a point of stressing this.


I don't have to rely on conjecture when the OP states that his wife is unremorseful. I think you're the one conjecturing on the OP's view of the subjugation of women. Is believing that people (women and men alike) should remain chaste until marriage a pre-Christian view that subjugates women? Please explain how.

Jesus did preach to sinners. That doesn't mean he advocated sin or dismissed sin as unimportant.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

morituri said:


> I wish shocs12 would consult with a religious marital adviser that could guide him and help him make a decision that he could live with based on his religion's principles.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I would also suggest that shocs12 take his time to make sure that works with this advisor to make the proper decision. These are some very big decisions to make, and I suspect there will be a rollercoaster of emotions here in the short term. Taking your time and working through the issues will increase your chances of making the best decision.


----------



## PHTlump

Angel5112 said:


> Although I am not proud of my past, I am proud of what I have become because of it.


I can understand this sentence. Although, I suggest that it is possible that you have become the person you are in spite of your past, rather than because of it.



Angel5112 said:


> I do not regret any past actions but I do regret how the actions made others who cared about me feel.


I don't understand this sentence. You regret making people feel badly, but you don't regret doing the things that made them feel badly? I don't see any difference there.



Angel5112 said:


> On a side note though, could you please, before you continue to label your wife as soiled, think about how you would want your daughters treated if they chose to have sex before marriage? I hope you would not call them soiled and love them less because of it. I am just trying to put things into perspective.


I know labels count. But given that the OP is a Christian, and Christians believe in the injurious effects of sin on a sinner (staining, or soiling, the person in the eyes of God), it seems inconsistent with the tenets of his religion, not to mention very arrogant, to argue that sin soils the sinner, except if the sinner is a member of his immediate family. In that case, there's no problem.


----------



## aug

Halien said:


> She's probably referring to a very common theme in the Bible. Are you trying to suggest that the prodigal son wasn't truly repentent when he asked his father to take him back, even as a servant? The father took him back because he saw that he had become a better person. He learned from his mistakes, and became wise.


It's not possible for the father to see that the prodigal son was truly repentent from that far away. Note:


> But *while he was still a long way off*, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.


The father took him back because he was his son. 

Note that the prodigal son does not get what was left of the father's estate. To the older brother who stayed, the father said:


> 'My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and *everything I have is yours*.'


NIV version, Luke 15:11-32


The younger brother (prodigal son) need to bear his consequences.


----------



## morituri

socs12 needs to consider having himself and his wife tested for STIs because some *Sexually transmitted infections* exist without symptoms.



Angel5112 said:


> I do not regret any past actions but I do regret how the actions made others who cared about me feel.


I take a different stand on this and have to say that I do regret some of my past actions because they could have cost me my life and thus devastated my parents. If I am still alive it is only through divine intervention or pure dumb luck.


----------



## that_girl

shocs12 said:


> yes soiled.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you not soiled?

All sins are the same in your God's eyes.


----------



## morituri

Angel5112 said:


> I don't regret my actions because they made me realize they destructive path, psychologically, that I was on and helped me have a better awareness for certain things now, but I regret that my actions hurt my family and my friends.


But what if those actions you don't regret had cost you your life or your marriage?

Believe me that if I had to relive my life, I would never repeat the dangerous boneheaded actions I took in the past.



> They test for STD's/STI's at your first prenatal visit. Doesn't the OP have 2 children? Unless she has been unfaithful in the marriage or lives in a country where they don't test as a precautionary measure, I don't think this would be necessary.


Since she has proven that she is capable of great deception, the question of her faithfulness is one that remains unanswered.


----------



## PHTlump

that_girl said:


> All sins are the same in your God's eyes.


That claim is frequently made. However, there is little Biblical support for this position.

But most of the religious debate on this thread is not germane to the discussion. The OP does need to talk to a religious adviser from his denomination, or at least versed in the OP's views to explore several questions, including the following:

Does the false pretense of virginity render a marriage void ab initio?

Does the continued deception regarding his wife's prior virginity constitute an offense worthy of ecumenical divorce?

Is the OP required to forgive his wife for her past sexual experience when she has no remorse for her actions?

Is it possible for the OP to forgive his wife and still divorce her?

If the OP obtains a civil divorce that isn't church-sanctioned, can he freely remarry, or would that constitute adultery against his current wife?

He should also explore the possibility of reconciliation. I wish him luck.


----------



## Bartimaus

I am sorry to say this but I seriously think that Shocs12 is between a rock and a hard place and perhaps is angry because he will not be justified doing what it appears to me that he wants to do. Maybe I am wrong but...
1. Fact:When she did those sexual acts they were not married.
Therefore I can't find anywhere in scripture that he can be
justified in divorcing her!!!
2. Fact: And I do believe that he is now required to have to
show grace towards her according to scripture or he will be committing sin and though not sexual sin,he will be soiled and thus just as guilty as her because on judgement day...God won't catorigise sins. A sinner will be guilty of breaking the entire law(including adultery) if found guilty of any sins come judgement day!
So any arguements he makes now,as painful as this may be to him, are in my opinion him speaking as a man outside of scripture. Though in mans eyes he does have reason,but not Gods. If you use the law to hurt,destroy,kill you too will be judged by the law. I know many will disagree but the way I see it he is bound by the law AND BY GRACE to forgive her and stay married. And as another said,it is the OP that brought religion and his beliefs into this thread and what he seems to want to do. Oh my how life can hurt sometimes!


----------



## that_girl

PHTlump said:


> That claim is frequently made. However, there is little Biblical support for this position.


Is there a list of which sins matter more or less?

Point being, we're all sinners if we a judged by the God in the bible. The OP just has to decide if he can get through this with God's help or not.


----------



## that_girl

Isaiah 64:6 
"We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind."

Luke 17:3-4 
“If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks forgiveness, you must forgive.”

Looks like this is telling the OP what he needs to do.


----------



## PHTlump

that_girl said:


> Is there a list of which sins matter more or less?


There isn't a comprehensive list of class A sins versus class B sins in the Bible. But, there are several verses in both the Old and New Testaments that discuss unforgivable sins, greater sins, sins that lead to death, etc. That's the basis for the Catholic doctrine of mortal sin versus venial sin.



that_girl said:


> Point being, we're all sinners if we a judged by the God in the bible. The OP just has to decide if he can get through this with God's help or not.


We have all sinned. That's true. But God's judgment isn't to determine who has and who has not sinned. It's about grace and repentance. In Christian theology, it is possible for person A to commit a sin, repent, live a holy life, and go to heaven while person B commits the identical sin, never repents, and is excluded from salvation. The actions are identical, but with opposite outcomes.


----------



## Halien

PHTlump said:


> But most of the religious debate on this thread is not germane to the discussion.


Actually, to a believer, it is germane, if the OP uses his faith to justify his actions. Better believe it would be germain if we were talking about some other religious beliefs, like some growing religions across the world. Her being called soiled would be the least of her worries.


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

shocs12 said:


> but she was so uneasy around her friends when they visited, then one day her best friend blurted out how wonderful it was for me to have a partner with so much experience especially that i was a virgin.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I'm still stuck on this fact that her friend decided to reveal that his wife had been sexually active, *12 years after the fact*???? Why? And why was your wife uneasy when the friends came to visit? Afraid of someone spilling a 12 year old secret?

It almost smells like she was trying to let on that something else has been going on more recently with his wife and these men, or else she's *incredibly *lacking in social graces.


----------



## morituri

StrangerThanFiction said:


> I'm still stuck on this fact that her friend decided to reveal that his wife had been sexually active, *12 years after the fact*???? Why? And why was your wife uneasy when the friends came to visit? Afraid of someone spilling a 12 year old secret?
> 
> It almost smells like she was trying to let on that something else has been going on more recently with his wife and these men, or else she's *incredibly *lacking in social graces.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Indeed. Something IS going on.


----------



## chillymorn

did not read the whole thread but from what I did read i would say.


GET OVER IT. if your marriage was as good as you say before you knew this then thank your lucky stars for a good marriage.

some simply truths of life.(I know someone will chime in and say I never did that but I don't believe it for a minute)

everybody lies the average person lies 14 times a day.
everybody masterbated at least once (weather they came or not is a differnt story)
everybody wants to feel desired emotionaly and sexually.


----------



## that_girl

I haven't lied today. Honest. 

I haven't masturbated.... yet....LOL This music is making me horny though. Hubs is in his own little world right now.


----------



## Arnold

chillymorn said:


> did not read the whole thread but from what I did read i would say.
> 
> 
> GET OVER IT. if your marriage was as good as you say before you knew this then thank your lucky stars for a good marriage.
> 
> some simply truths of life.(I know someone will chime in and say I never did that but I don't believe it for a minute)
> 
> everybody lies the average person lies 14 times a day.
> everybody masterbated at least once (weather they came or not is a differnt story)
> everybody wants to feel desired emotionaly and sexually.


Just once? In a lifetime?


----------



## chillymorn

that_girl said:


> I haven't lied today. Honest.
> 
> I haven't masturbated.... yet....LOL This music is making me horny though. Hubs is in his own little world right now.


thats a lie


----------



## Soccerfan73

chillymorn said:


> did not read the whole thread but from what I did read i would say.
> 
> 
> GET OVER IT. if your marriage was as good as you say before you knew this then thank your lucky stars for a good marriage.
> 
> some simply truths of life.(I know someone will chime in and say I never did that but I don't believe it for a minute)
> 
> everybody lies the average person lies 14 times a day.
> everybody masterbated at least once (weather they came or not is a differnt story)
> everybody wants to feel desired emotionaly and sexually.


I never did that! 

Seriously though, I think the issue is a great religious divide of which I don't understand. I would be more worried about if she was a good woman for the past 12 years or not.


----------



## that_girl

chillymorn said:


> thats a lie


That I haven't lied? LOL I haven't. Even when my boss asked if he offended me. Yes, he did and I told him such


----------



## morituri

shocs12 care to give us an update?


----------



## PHTlump

chillymorn said:


> did not read the whole thread but from what I did read i would say.


I suggest that speaking from a position of willful ignorance is never the right strategy. If you don't want to read the thread, that's fine. Just don't comment.



chillymorn said:


> some simply truths of life.(I know someone will chime in and say I never did that but I don't believe it for a minute)
> 
> everybody lies the average person lies 14 times a day.
> everybody masterbated at least once (weather they came or not is a differnt story)
> everybody wants to feel desired emotionaly and sexually.


Here's another truth of life. Almost every rule has an exception. Someone who states definitively that every person has done A, B, and C is definitely wrong.

Otherwise, thanks. I guess no internet thread would be complete without ignorance and logical fallacies interjected.


----------



## morituri

O


PHTlump said:


> I suggest that speaking from a position of willful ignorance is never the right strategy. If you don't want to read the thread, that's fine. Just don't comment.
> 
> 
> Here's another truth of life. Almost every rule has an exception. Someone who states definitively that every person has done A, B, and C is definitely wrong.
> 
> Otherwise, thanks. I guess no internet thread would be complete without ignorance and logical fallacies interjected.


:iagree:

ITDS - It's The *DECEPTION* [email protected]#%


----------



## Locard

Well all this religion talk this an that...she should be glad they aren't under the old law. To lie about virginity gets one stoned to death per deuteronomy. 

I think with kids involved I would try and move past this for their sake with my radar on full alert.


----------



## morituri

Locard said:


> Well all this religion talk this an that...she should be glad they aren't under the old law. To lie about virginity gets one stoned to death per deuteronomy.
> 
> I think with kids involved I would try and move past this for their sake with my radar on full alert.


I disagree with the sweeping under the rug that some people are advocating - especially the offensive comment 'get over it'.

I would recommend that he still get a paternity test done on all the children to verify if he is their biological father, as well as a polygraph test for his wife to find out if she has had extra-marital sex with some of the previous lovers she has introduced as friends. If either or both things turn out to be true - children not his and/or wife cheated - then he has more than enough religious backing to divorce his wife.


----------



## Locard

Can't argue with you there, we don't know how deep this rabbit hole is....


----------



## PHTlump

Paternity seems fairly certain.



shocs12 said:


> Trust me guys, my two daughters are mine, am black and my wife is white and my babies are biracial. All her past exs where white.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

PHTlump said:


> Paternity seems fairly certain.


That doesn't prove anything except that they may not be the 3 previous lovers biological children. It is possible that she may have had an affair with another black man. Like I said before, I hope I'm wrong, dead wrong in my suspicions and that she has been a faithful wife that he can open his heart to forgive for lying to him about her virginity.


----------



## Arnold

PHTlump said:


> Paternity seems fairly certain.


Uh, that would be the past exs he knows about, right? Thought I read somewhere in this story that she lied to him once


----------



## PHTlump

Arnold said:


> Uh, that would be the past exs he knows about, right? Thought I read somewhere in this story that she lied to him once


The lie in this thread is the state of the wife's virginity when she married. Is that significant? Yes. Does that mean she's cheated, had other men's children, or joined Al Qaeda? Probably not.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Just thinking to myself how abstaining from premarital sex for both of us would have affected the marriage. I wonder if it would have been as bad as some presume. First experience with first experience, no preconceptions or pasts to live up to or "out-do"...
It seems like it might have been kind of amazing.


----------



## shazam

Angel5112 said:


> *"Tha only problem i have is she doesnt regret sleeping with them guys because she says it has made her a better person. I have no idea what that means."*
> 
> 
> I can sympathize with the theory of this. I was very promiscuous as a teen; I cannot count my past partners with just my two hands, and had a serious drug and alcohol abuse problem. Although I am not proud of my past, I am proud of what I have become because of it. I do not regret any past actions but I do regret how the actions made others who cared about me feel. I am not non-regretful because of things my actual partners did, but because my own actions made me realize and learn things about me. My actions helped me become a better person by learning from my mistakes and taught me how I need to treat others and, more importantly, treat myself. It taught me self respect.
> 
> That same reason doesn't make sense coming from her since she lied about her past. I don't agree with your beliefs or that she is "soiled". I do understand why you feel betrayed though. It makes it even worse that she socialized and allowed you to socialize with past partners when you weren't aware of whom they were. That is sick and twisted.
> 
> That being said, I still think forgiveness is the best option. I do think you have to take into account how your relationship has been the last 12 years. I also think you should talk to a Christian counselor, whether it is a minister, priest, or just a Christian psychologist is up to you.
> 
> On a side note though, could you please, before you continue to label your wife as soiled, think about how you would want your daughters treated if they chose to have sex before marriage? I hope you would not call them soiled and love them less because of it. I am just trying to put things into perspective.


Didn't you end up cheating though? So your past made you into a cheater more or less? I mean this doesn't really help the whole my past made me what I am argument, no offense.


----------



## morituri

Angel5112 said:


> I think jumping to the "she's a harlot and your kids are not biologically yours" is really quite a leap. That's just my opinion though.


I would agree with you if it weren't for two things. One, she lied on purpose that she was a virgin in order for him to marry her - something that no one who truly loves another person would do. And second, she maintained friendship with 3 of her former lovers from her promiscous past. This latter one is the biggest of the two red flags for it begs the question of Why would a pious married woman would want to maintain friendship with 3 of her ex-lovers and promote them to become friends with her husband unbeknownst to him who they were in relationship to her past? If I were him I would seriously consider the paternity tests and the polygraph test.


----------



## that_girl

Shooboomafoo said:


> Just thinking to myself how abstaining from premarital sex for both of us would have affected the marriage. I wonder if it would have been as bad as some presume. First experience with first experience, no preconceptions or pasts to live up to or "out-do"...
> It seems like it might have been kind of amazing.


Unless it's bad or nonexistent.


----------



## Soccerfan73

Angel5112 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think jumping to the "she's a harlot and your kids are not biologically yours" is really quite a leap. That's just my opinion though.


That boggled my mind actually. 

I understand not being thrilled with her lying about something that was stated as important to him 12 years ago. 

But the whole "she's soiled" and the suggestion that she must be tramping around was way over the top IMO. 

I'd be a lot more concerned about her actions over the past 12 years personally. But that's just me. Good luck to him on his journey.


----------



## tacoma

Angel5112 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I think jumping to the "she's a harlot and your kids are not biologically yours" is really quite a leap. That's just my opinion though.


Thank you!
Finally a voice of reason in this surreal twilight zone of a thread.


----------



## ClipClop

that_girl said:


> Unless it's bad or nonexistent.


You are pretty negative.

Much early sex isn't wonderful. It takes time to learn how the opposite sex works as well as how your own body works.

And non existent can be worked through. It isn't always the disaster you see on this site. 

And let's not forget bait and switch which blindsides many of those premarital sex relationships.

Premarital sex guarantees nothing except that you aren't a virgin. It also means you could pick up an std, and you could wind up a parent.

This is getting old. I wouldn't be surprised if the op gave up on this place. The agenda is clear. Clear, but irrelevant to this man's life. Not that many of you care. It is all about defending and pushing your beliefs on other people. 

I am totally with Shoo on this one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

morituri said:


> I would agree with you if it weren't for two things. One, she lied on purpose that she was a virgin in order for him to marry her - something that no one who truly loves another person would do.


One could argue that she lied because she truly loved him. She knew that if she told the truth, he would probably dump her. Therefore, by lying, she was able to give herself the best chance of spending her life with him.



morituri said:


> And second, she maintained friendship with 3 of her former lovers from her promiscous past. This latter one is the biggest of the two red flags for it begs the question of Why would a pious married woman would want to maintain friendship with 3 of her ex-lovers and promote them to become friends with her husband unbeknownst to him who they were in relationship to her past? If I were him I would seriously consider the paternity tests and the polygraph test.


It is possible that she considered her sexual relationship with those men in the past. It is also possible that she didn't want to alert her husband to her prior lie. I mean, if she married her husband and then announced that she could no longer associate with these men, her husband might inquire as to why. That would certainly be an awkward conversation for a self-proclaimed virgin.


----------



## shazam

I think a lot of this might depend on their sex life. Is she really attracted to him or is he just some nice guy sucker she lied to because he was nice and stable? That would probably sting the most, especially if she was more attracted to the friends.


----------



## aug

The marriage as it was is now at the end. 

How this marriage proceeds depends mostly on what shocs12 is comfortable with. If he stays the deceit can gnaw away the relationship. If he divorce, other factors get triggered.

a tough spot to be in, for sure.


----------



## ClipClop

One could argue that she lied because she truly loved him. She knew that if she told the truth, he would probably dump her. Therefore, by lying, she was able to give herself the best chance of spending her life with him.

Yeah. Love and lying go together really well. Not!

She was selfish. Love would demand she tell him, ask his forgiveness and allow him to decide the qualities he wants in a wife.

Do you advocate not confessing infidelity after marriage if the person thinks they love their spouse and doesn't wish a divorce? 

Lying to keep someone is selfish. Nothing else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

PHTlump said:


> It is possible that she considered her sexual relationship with those men in the past. It is also possible that she didn't want to alert her husband to her prior lie. I mean, if she married her husband and then announced that she could no longer associate with these men, her husband might inquire as to why. That would certainly be an awkward conversation for a self-proclaimed virgin.


I truly hope that you are right and that I'm wrong, otherwise we're looking at a truly devastating situation.


----------



## PHTlump

ClipClop said:


> She was selfish. Love would demand she tell him, ask his forgiveness and allow him to decide the qualities he wants in a wife.


I agree that she was selfish. Given that the OP was seriously considering ending a 12-year marriage with children because he found out about the lie, it's a safe bet that he would never have married her if she had been honest. So the option to the wife was to be honest and lose him forever, or lie and have a chance at a lifetime together.



ClipClop said:


> Do you advocate not confessing infidelity after marriage if the person thinks they love their spouse and doesn't wish a divorce?


That's an interesting question. And I'll take it seriously.

Let's assume we're talking about a one night stand that is immediately recognized as a mistake and the disloyal wife (we're talking about a wife in this thread) vows to herself never to repeat it and remain loyal to her husband in the future.

That gives the DS two options. First, confess to her husband and hope they can work through it. Let's say this has a 50% chance of success. Second, she can go through life regretting her deceit and staying married to her husband. Let's say other issues pop up during the marriage that give her a 10% chance of divorce going that route.

So, we have one option that has a 50% chance of success and another option with 90% chance of success. Given that divorce will permanently harm any children involved, permanently lower the wealth of the family, etc., it's certainly worth considering going with the more effective, more dishonest option.



ClipClop said:


> Lying to keep someone is selfish. Nothing else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suppose it depends upon your point of view. I'm not saying it's noble. But the outcome from lying can be preferable to the outcome from telling the truth.


----------



## that_girl

ClipClop said:


> You are pretty negative.
> 
> Much early sex isn't wonderful. It takes time to learn how the opposite sex works as well as how your own body works.
> 
> And non existent can be worked through. It isn't always the disaster you see on this site.
> 
> And let's not forget bait and switch which blindsides many of those premarital sex relationships.
> 
> Premarital sex guarantees nothing except that you aren't a virgin. It also means you could pick up an std, and you could wind up a parent.
> 
> This is getting old. I wouldn't be surprised if the op gave up on this place. The agenda is clear. Clear, but irrelevant to this man's life. Not that many of you care. It is all about defending and pushing your beliefs on other people.
> 
> I am totally with Shoo on this one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How is that negative? It could be bad  It could be good. But if you marry someone without having any sex beforehand, you don't know WHAT you're getting. Some people are harmonious and have a good sex life. Others discover the person doesn't want sex ever!

Negative? No. Realistic. LOL premarital sex isn't the end of the world for many. Not everyone who has sex before marriage is a wh0re or sl*t or anything of that sort. So stop pushing YOUR views on us. Thanks.


----------



## that_girl

aug said:


> The marriage as it was is now at the end.
> 
> How this marriage proceeds depends mostly on what shocs12 is comfortable with. If he stays the deceit can gnaw away the relationship. If he divorce, other factors get triggered.
> 
> a tough spot to be in, for sure.


I agree. It's a horrible decision to have to make and I really don't know what I would do if I was so devout as he.


----------



## ClipClop

that_girl said:


> How is that negative? It could be bad  It could be good. But if you marry someone without having any sex beforehand, you don't know WHAT you're getting. Some people are harmonious and have a good sex life. Others discover the person doesn't want sex ever!
> 
> Negative? No. Realistic. LOL premarital sex isn't the end of the world for many. Not everyone who has sex before marriage is a wh0re or sl*t or anything of that sort. So stop pushing YOUR views on us. Thanks.


What views were I pushing? Defending the right of someone to choose the characteristics they want in a partner? Or their right to choose to wait until marriage? 

I certainly didn't call her a ***** and never would. I had premarital. I would be a hypocrite. But I do wish I had waited. 

If premarital guaranteed anything I would be with you. It does not. I wonder why you are harping on it so much. But it must be a personal issue. It certainly isn't about this man's life. He has stated his values clearly. If you can't accept that they are his values and he has every right to hold them perhaps you could at least see that you've stated your case and that it is irrelevant to ppl who do not agree or who defend another's right to choose what to believe.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

that_girl said:


> But if you marry someone without having any sex beforehand, you don't know WHAT you're getting. Some people are harmonious and have a good sex life. Others discover the person doesn't want sex ever!


Frankly, even if you have premarital sex, you still don't know what you're getting. These boards are full of people whose spouses baited them with sex before marriage, and then pulled the rug on them after marriage. Or who had a healthy sex life for years after marriage only to see it whither away to nothing. Or who had a lousy sex life for years only to see it evolve into greatness.

There is a chance that a virgin who waits until marriage will discover that he/she has no interest in sex. But that risk is fairly (extremely?) small.

The negative aspects of premarital sex (risk of pregnancy, disease, and later divorce) seem to outweigh the potential benefits of indulging.

And then there's the religious aspect, which also comes down in favor of abstinence.


----------



## that_girl

ClipClop said:


> If premarital guaranteed anything I would be with you. It does not. * I wonder why you are harping on it so much*. But it must be a personal issue. It certainly isn't about this man's life. He has stated his values clearly. If you can't accept that they are his values and he has every right to hold them perhaps you could at least see that you've stated your case and that it is irrelevant to ppl who do not agree or who defend another's right to choose what to believe.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe you didn't read my other posts to the OP. I understand his issue. Read before you jump on me about not accepting his values. Holy crap!

But harping on it? LOL It's not a personal issue. I have no problem with my sexual past 

Are you ok?


----------



## that_girl

PHTlump said:


> Frankly, even if you have premarital sex, you still don't know what you're getting. These boards are full of people whose spouses baited them with sex before marriage, and then pulled the rug on them after marriage. Or who had a healthy sex life for years after marriage only to see it whither away to nothing. Or who had a lousy sex life for years only to see it evolve into greatness.
> 
> There is a chance that a virgin who waits until marriage will discover that he/she has no interest in sex. But that risk is fairly (extremely?) small.
> 
> The negative aspects of premarital sex (risk of pregnancy, disease, and later divorce) seem to outweigh the potential benefits of indulging.
> 
> And then there's the religious aspect, which also comes down in favor of abstinence.


That's true. I just haven't experienced it. Yet. I say yet because I don't know the future.

I had a ton of guilt about sex from my mom's religious brainwashing. After that was done, I had no problem with sexuality. Or any negative effects from premarital sex. 

Not that this has ANYthing to do with the OP....who hasn't returned. I wonder what happened? I hope he's been able to talk to her or make a decision...if it's even real. Who knows.


----------



## shocs12

morituri said:


> shocs12 care to give us an update?


sorry guys i have been stressed out more these past few days, i havent had time to log in. Well today i asked my wife why she kept that lie from me, answer she was scared id divorce her, i also asked her why out of tha 3 guys i new none of them proposed to her, answer they where not financialy stable was i? Nope i worked hard to be where i am. Am not free of sin, and if she didnt want to marry me because of sumthn in ma past i wud undastand, consequences of ma action. I dnt want to lose my religous beliefs but i want to cheat on her to get back at her, some of her friends are very flirty with me shouldnt be too hard. I knw very unchristian right? Bt like most people are saying i should be fine after i ask her for forgiveness ryt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shocs12

morituri said:


> I would agree with you if it weren't for two things. One, she lied on purpose that she was a virgin in order for him to marry her - something that no one who truly loves another person would do. And second, she maintained friendship with 3 of her former lovers from her promiscous past. This latter one is the biggest of the two red flags for it begs the question of Why would a pious married woman would want to maintain friendship with 3 of her ex-lovers and promote them to become friends with her husband unbeknownst to him who they were in relationship to her past? If I were him I would seriously consider the paternity tests and the polygraph test.


Let clarify something most people have misunderstood, she did not maintain her friendship with those men, but i stated that when we where invited to parties or community gatherings 3 of her exs would be there. She would not associate with them, bt i would just small talk about football,business etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

shocs12 said:


> i also asked her why out of tha 3 guys i new none of them proposed to her, answer they where not financialy stable


So it was a lie that she married you because she loved you, instead she married you because you were her meal ticket?



> I dnt want to lose my religous beliefs but i want to cheat on her to get back at her, some of her friends are very flirty with me shouldnt be too hard. I knw very unchristian right? Bt like most people are saying i should be fine after i ask her for forgiveness ryt?


Are you drunk? An affair is like shooting yourself in the head to get rid of a migraine. And yes you will lose your religious principles if you go and cheat on your wife. It's called adultery, remember?


----------



## shocs12

To answer another question that has most of you puzzled, she didnt cheat in our 12 year marriage atleast thats what she told me, shes showing alot of remorse for lying and decieving, most people dnt get it, in the states premarital sex is glorified by the media, movies etc. Most actresses like jennifer lopez, cameroun diaz make romantic flicks that end up in marriage but in real life its so easy. My wife has brought alot of buggage in our marriage, i mean how would you feel to know that your wife has done most intimate acts with 8 guys??? Am playing it in my mind the images are driving me crazy, am stressed out and i cant sleep. Am being very strng for my gals trying to act normal, wondering will it get better??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shocs12

morituri said:


> So it was a lie that she married you because she loved you, instead she married you because you were her meal ticket?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you drunk? An affair is like shooting yourself in the head to get rid of a migraine. And yes you will lose your religious principles if you go and cheat on your wife. It's called adultery, remember?


am not drunk, am hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Turner9

Right now, I don't care about others comments towards me for what I am about to say to you. I do hope that you will respond. 

1. Stop looking at your wife like she is some type of Lying *****! Nut Job! 
2. I am also God Fearing Man, my faith runs real deep yet I have seen 1st hand my so called brothers and sisters in christ! comment the worst of sins under the sun! Especially those surrounding sexual morals and ethics. You are the one with too many issues, not your Wife??. A Virgin??? Your wife is not Mary! what on earth is wrong with you?? The simple fact of her being a virgin only means, she is that less experienced and God forbid has only known sexual bliss from only one man. Not, as if that is a bad thing but I would want my wife to be somewhat balanced. 
4. But, I heard your exception to the rule, yet, really, how many lovers did your wife have before you got married? Was she the Town *****? If not! Stop acting like it! Before you loose her for good. 
5. Yes, you feel betrayed, taken advantage of, lied to, etc etc etc , all of those are tough emotions to deal with, yet none of which done in malice! I believe your Wife truly Loves YOU! you knuckle head, she has to, to have given birth (as painful as that is) to your now beautiful children. 
6. Think about it, despite the Men she was formerly with, she choose YOU! Take comfort in that, and, Eat her food, break bread with your wife! who in turn helps to make you a better man!
7. I don't know your faith, catholic, seventh day advent, Baptist, Methodist, Non Denominational or Mormon? It would help me if I knew the foundation your reasoning rest upon, because obviously it has nothing to do with forgiveness! Just Ego, like you are without some sort of Sin? I've seen this behavior before, The I have sinned, but not that kinda of Sin? Excuse. Sin is Sin, Broken fellowship with God is broken fellowship, but its not forever, hell! some are restored the same day the offense is made. 
8. As it is Written : "Come now and let us reason together, says the LORD, though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." (Isaiah 1:18) "For as the heavens are high above the earth, so great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us." (Psalm 103:11-12) I also conclude, he says, "and remembers it no more! 

*So, stop recalling it in your mind, stop the negative role playing your are putting yourself through, forgive, forget, move on!

*Yet , ye continue to Judge? As it is written: "But why do you judge your brother(Inclusive Noun) ? Or why do you show contempt for your brother(Sister as well) ? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ!" (Romans 14:10)

(10) Listen, you don't have to judge your fellow Christians' lives, God will do this at the Judgment Seat of Christ. At that judgment we will not be judged to see if we are saved, but for rewards we will receive for our life of service after salvation. In 2 Corinthians 5:10 we see this same thing: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." God has given us talents and gifts to use for Him in this life, so we are very accountable to Him. 

Finally: I've gone out with alot of different women in the past, of many nationalities, attitudes, beliefs, etc and what I found in all, was who can be to me, my best friend! Who will stand by my side during hardships, struggles, moments of doubt? Who shall infuse strength in me besides God, when I am at my lowest? She did not come to me unblemished! She was not as I pictured her to be? 

Nope! she was indeed my opposite! in many things but strong on the core principals I believe in. She turned out to be a hippi! and one hell of a great medical RN. I am thankful to God! for her, for as long as she chooses! to be remained by my side. She is what I asked God for, someone who is not easily turned by the words of men! Not easily seduced, Strong, willing to fight! A Good Mother! who takes care of her family. 

I am assured that God placed your wife in your path to meet your needs, Pray that your are lucky she still decides to hear fathers voice.


----------



## StrangerThanFiction

Cutting to the chase, you don’t have many options. About three.
1.	You can kick your wife, the mother of your children, out like the Wednesday trash.
2.	You can stay with her but meanwhile constantly reminding her that she is garbage. Excuse me, soiled.
3.	Finally, you can get counseling and try to forgive her and move forward.
Remember, “But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
You really want to go there?


----------



## aug

Turner9 said:


> Finally: *I've gone out with alot of different women in the past, of many nationalities, attitudes, beliefs, etc *and what I found in all, was who can be to me, my best friend! Who will stand by my side during hardships, struggles, moments of doubt? Who shall infuse strength in me besides God, when I am at my lowest? She did not come to me unblemished! She was not as I pictured her to be?


I assume you slept with some of them? If so, therein lies the underlying difference between him and you. Then I could say that your position was born out of justification of your past actions.


----------



## PHTlump

Turner9 said:


> 2. I am also God Fearing Man, my faith runs real deep yet I have seen 1st hand my so called brothers and sisters in christ! comment the worst of sins under the sun! Especially those surrounding sexual morals and ethics. You are the one with too many issues, not your Wife??. A Virgin??? Your wife is not Mary! what on earth is wrong with you?? The simple fact of her being a virgin only means, she is that less experienced and God forbid has only known sexual bliss from only one man. Not, as if that is a bad thing but I would want my wife to be somewhat balanced.


In other words, you are a God fearing man who believes that the Biblical injunction against premarital sex should be ignored? Do you have a long list of Biblical precepts which you advocate ignoring? Are you counting on God's mercy to forgive you for ignoring his commands?



Turner9 said:


> 7. I don't know your faith, catholic, seventh day advent, Baptist, Methodist, Non Denominational or Mormon? It would help me if I knew the foundation your reasoning rest upon, because obviously it has nothing to do with forgiveness! Just Ego, like you are without some sort of Sin? I've seen this behavior before, The I have sinned, but not that kinda of Sin? Excuse. Sin is Sin, Broken fellowship with God is broken fellowship, but its not forever, hell! some are restored the same day the offense is made.


I must have missed the post where the OP stated he was without sin. I know he was a virgin when he married, which is the standard he is using now to judge his wife. That doesn't seem hypocritical to me. Do you think any particular denomination(s) advocate or dismiss premarital sex as a sin? Are you a Unitarian?



Turner9 said:


> I am assured that God placed your wife in your path to meet your needs, Pray that your are lucky she still decides to hear fathers voice.


Does that mean that the Holy Spirit encouraged her to have premarital sex and lie to her husband about it? Do you think the Holy Spirit would frequently use sin for such a higher purpose?

Just a few questions. You did, after all, encourage responses.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

Why would you commit the sin that you are so against in your wife? Destroying your own moral principles is not a way to make yourself a better person.


----------



## morituri

StrangerThanFiction said:


> Cutting to the chase, you don’t have many options. About three.
> 1.	You can kick your wife, the mother of your children, out like the Wednesday trash.
> 2.	You can stay with her but meanwhile constantly reminding her that she is garbage. Excuse me, soiled.
> 3.	Finally, you can get counseling and try to forgive her and move forward.
> Remember, “But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
> You really want to go there?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

There is a 4th option. You can cheat on her with 8 women. The problem of course is that you would be throwing all your religious values and principles out the window and becoming a 'soiled' man in the process. Not to mention your marriage would almost certainly come to an end and you'll end up seeing your daughters 4 times a month. You'll have your revenge affairs but at what price?


----------



## shocs12

morituri said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> There is a 4th option. You can cheat on her with 8 women. The problem of course is that you would be throwing all your religious values and principles out the window and becoming a 'soiled' man in the process. Not to mention your marriage would almost certainly come to an end and you'll end up seeing your daughters 4 times a month. You'll have your revenge affairs but at what price?


when i said cheat, i didnt really mean it, i was trying to be sarcastic because many people here where justifying her actions of premarital sex which is a deal breaker with me. You see when a guy lies say about liking hes girlfriend shoes, shel get over it when he tels the truth, but a physical,intimate exchange of fluids and emotions is not easy to get over with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saffron

Do not cheat! Your wife may have lied, but she did not commit adultery. When your wife slept with those men, she was not married to you and probably didn't even know you. She did not have sex with the intent to hurt you. If you have sex with one of her friends, you'd be committing adultery with the intent to hurt your wife. In my opinion, a far greater sin than having pre-marital sex and lying about it.

By having sex with one of her friends, you would be showing a lack of character, morals, and grace. It would be far from showing forgiveness for your wife's sins, so she should not feel compelled to offer forgiveness to you either.

My husband broke our marriage vows, so in my mind if I wanted to cheat . . I could. My vows are broken. But I am not a vindicative person who wants to hurt others, even those that have hurt me. I do not believe that's the type of person God wants me to be. Betrayal hurts like no other pain I've known, but by giving into it and becoming something ugly is not rising up to the challenges in life. If God wanted you to learn something from this experience, I highly doubt it's "get even" by breaking one the commandments.

I see my husband's betrayal as a way to improve myself and my relationships. I refuse to become a shell of the person I was prior to d-day, if anything I want to be far better. Yes I'm still hurt and of course I have thoughts of "getting even", but that's not the kind of person I was raised to be. My H's affair may have stolen my innocence and ability to trust, but it will not change my moral character.

Think long and hard before you decide to lash out in your hurt and anger. Intent even plays a role in the courts. Take manslaughter vs murder for example, the one with intent is judged and sentenced far more harshly.


----------



## Saffron

Just saw your post about not meaning it with the cheating . . . very relieved you weren't serious.


----------



## shocs12

Saffron said:


> Just saw your post about not meaning it with the cheating . . . very relieved you weren't serious.


am glad you cought my drift, when people are hurt and down thats when the devil pushes you to do wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Saffron said:


> Do not cheat! Your wife may have lied, but she did not commit adultery. When your wife slept with those men, she was not married to you and probably didn't even know you. She did not have sex with the intent to hurt you. If you have sex with one of her friends, you'd be committing adultery with the intent to hurt your wife. In my opinion, a far greater sin than having pre-marital sex and lying about it.
> 
> By having sex with one of her friends, you would be showing a lack of character, morals, and grace. It would be far from showing forgiveness for your wife's sins, so she should not feel compelled to offer forgiveness to you either.
> 
> My husband broke our marriage vows, so in my mind if I wanted to cheat . . I could. My vows are broken. But I am not a vindicative person who wants to hurt others, even those that have hurt me. I do not believe that's the type of person God wants me to be. Betrayal hurts like no other pain I've known, but by giving into it and becoming something ugly is not rising up to the challenges in life. If God wanted you to learn something from this experience, I highly doubt it's "get even" by breaking one the commandments.
> 
> I see my husband's betrayal as a way to improve myself and my relationships. I refuse to become a shell of the person I was prior to d-day, if anything I want to be far better. Yes I'm still hurt and of course I have thoughts of "getting even", but that's not the kind of person I was raised to be. My H's affair may have stolen my innocence and ability to trust, but it will not change my moral character.
> 
> Think long and hard before you decide to lash out in your hurt and anger. Intent even plays a role in the courts. Take manslaughter vs murder for example, the one with intent is judged and sentenced far more harshly.


Yea - agreed with Saffron here. Hate to say this, but while God paints any sin with the same disdain, the bible does go alot easier on fornication as opposed to adultery. there is a BIG difference here.


----------



## shocs12

I spoke to my christian elders, and i have been advised to take some time to cool down and not to make any decision while angry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Wise people. I'm glad you talked to them.


----------



## Bartimaus

I think I have read every post but maybe I missed something....I read where the OP is of the christain belief. But I have not read what country they live in. If America,then I can't help wondering about something. I presume they married at not a really young age? I presume the OP grew up in America??? Maybe not?
My point is,if he grew up in America with our culture being the way it is,why is he so sensitive about her sex before marriage as to call it a 'deal breaker'.? Is the real problem her lies -OR- her having sex before him? Sorry but I just don't get it if he grew up in America as to why he is so upset at this as to call it a "deal breaker". Was it the lie she told or the sex she had that is really eating at him? Uh..he has told lies before himself. So if it's the sex...I am now trying to figure out his psyche and why this is such an extreme point of view he has displayed that it is something so severly extreme and I am wondering why...does it have anything to do with his past or the way he views women in general or geesh who knows. It just doesn't seem normal to me. This seems to go much much deeper than him wanting to marry a virgin. Why??? What is driving that desire to be so great? I mean,if you do a poll and ask American men if this is as important to them as it is him...you would get very few if any people with the extreme view that he has displayed here. It doesn't seem normal to the extent he has taken it. And,how many American girls are going to be virgin even at the age of...20 for example? It's just me not understanding this mans mind and not me attacking his beliefs.What man wouldn't want to marry a virgin that has never told a lie? I hope he doesn't hate women that have had sex outside of marriage for some weird reason. I don't know?


----------



## PHTlump

Bartimaus said:


> Sorry but I just don't get it if he grew up in America as to why he is so upset at this as to call it a "deal breaker".


He grew up a Christian. Christian children are told to abstain from sex until after marriage. This became very important to the OP. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to abstain from premarital sex, unless you live in America.



Bartimaus said:


> And,how many American girls are going to be virgin even at the age of...20 for example?


Not many. I think it's admirable that the OP decided that he would significantly narrow his field of eligible brides right off the bat. Just for religious conviction.


----------



## Arnold

I agree with Pht,. What the heck does living in America(btw, Mexico, Canada, are also in America), have to do with Christian abiding by the 7th commandment?
And, I really do not think it is all that rare for one to be a virgin past 20 or that it is such a rarity that you would not find many people who value virginity. There are plenty of people that hold these values qand adhere to them.
Agai, however, the validity or popularity of his value in this area is not the issue. The fact it that his wife lied to him and caused him to make an uninformed decision. She took control of a decision which was his to make. That is terribly disrespectful.


----------



## Bartimaus

I didn't mean anything as offensive towards Shocs12 so sorry if it came across that way. But I was wondering if he may have grown up in another culture where virginity is considered more important than it is here in America. Or perhaps he was raised in a home where such things are considered as or more important than love. Or,could this be the first time his wife has ever betrayed his trust? It seems to me that it may have been a pretty good relationship up to this point for this to have had such a devastating effect on him. But then,maybe it's just me and what I have lived with after the vows that makes me wonder why he is experiencing anything like he is going through...well...at least from reading his words over the internet it seems he is 'totally' devastated.


----------



## Arnold

Yeah, well , some folks place a high premium on both virginity and having the ability to make an informed decision re who they marry, I guess. I can certainly see how having been decieved into marriage would be devestating to someone. In fact, i would be more surprised if it was not devestating.


----------



## shocs12

Bartimaus said:


> I didn't mean anything as offensive towards Shocs12 so sorry if it came across that way. But I was wondering if he may have grown up in another culture where virginity is considered more important than it is here in America. Or perhaps he was raised in a home where such things are considered as or more important than love. Or,could this be the first time his wife has ever betrayed his trust? It seems to me that it may have been a pretty good relationship up to this point for this to have had such a devastating effect on him. But then,maybe it's just me and what I have lived with after the vows that makes me wonder why he is experiencing anything like he is going through...well...at least from reading his words over the internet it seems he is 'totally' devastated.


so what your saying is america is a land of the unmoral? Girls should be expected to lose there virginity before 20? And whats love got to do with me wanting a virgin? Because i wanted to marry a virgin i wasnt taught love at home? The bible is all about love and thats what i learnt. You cant just decieve some one into a marriage. I made sure through out our 12yr marriage that my wife and kids where 1st in everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shocs12

And if she doesnt regret those men she slept with, why didnt any of them see her worthy enough to marry? They just slept with her. But she used me, because from the begining i told her, my idea of dating is courting to me she was a potential wife to be if i loved her and met just one criteria virginity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shazam

wifeofhusband said:


> Obviously she was so in love with you that she would rather lie than lose you. Not fair and selfish of her but you now have children involved in this situation which puts a whole different slant on things. I hope you will be attending marriage counseling.


Yes and maybe no. Shocs fears are a real possibility. He could be her plan B, meaning her plan A (previous boyfriends) did not want to marry her so she settled for him and lied in order to keep him. This is why I think their sex life is so important, was she sexually attracted to him? Has the sex been frequent and good? That's really one indicator that she has been genuine with him.


----------



## morituri

Shocs please consider the following. There a plenty of stories of infidelity on this forum where the two spouses were virgins from the get go but that didn't stop one from betraying the other by sleeping with another man or woman after they got married. Virginity does not equal fidelity.

Maybe the reason she told you she doesn't regret sleeping with them is in reality a defensive mechanism that allows her to not deal with the fact that she was nothing more than a f*ck toy that was temporarily used by them.

Nevertheless, the two of you need counseling in order to process this ordeal in a healthy fashion.


----------



## Almostrecovered

morituri said:


> Virginity does not equal fidelity.


I can attest to that, I was my wife's first and she actually said one of the reasons she cheated was the nagging curiosity of what it was like to be with another.


bottom line is this...


people who have had multiple sex partners pre-marriage can and will cheat
people who were virgins pre-marriage can and will cheat
people who are religious can and will cheat
people who are not religious can and will cheat
people who are heterosexual can and will cheat
people who are homosexual can and will cheat
people who are poor can and will cheat
people who are rich can and will cheat
men can and will cheat
women can and will cheat


I can go on, but my point is simple

there is a considerable percentage of the population who will betray their spouse by adultery of some form. The people who cheat span every social, religious, gender, racial, sexual preference and proclivity, and economic status.


----------



## PHTlump

The virginity in America post raised my curiosity. Counter-intuitively, the dating landscape is getting better for those who are looking for virgins. According to the CDC, the percentage of females aged 15-19 who have never been married, but have had sex was 51.1% in 1988, 49.3% in 1995, 45.5% in 2002, and 42.6% during 2006-2010. Males showed a similar trend. It seems our country is starting to reject the hookup culture in the dating scene.


----------



## Soccerfan73

Almostrecovered said:


> I can attest to that, I was my wife's first and she actually said one of the reasons she cheated was the nagging curiosity of what it was like to be with another.
> 
> 
> bottom line is this...
> 
> 
> people who have had multiple sex partners pre-marriage can and will cheat
> people who were virgins pre-marriage can and will cheat
> people who are religious can and will cheat
> people who are not religious can and will cheat
> people who are heterosexual can and will cheat
> people who are homosexual can and will cheat
> people who are poor can and will cheat
> people who are rich can and will cheat
> men can and will cheat
> women can and will cheat
> 
> 
> I can go on, but my point is simple
> 
> there is a considerable percentage of the population who will betray their spouse by adultery of some form. The people who cheat span every social, religious, gender, racial, sexual preference and proclivity, and economic status.



:iagree:


----------



## shocs12

I will forgive her, but il never trust her ever. Il stick it out for my kids sake, when there old enough ill make another decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> I can attest to that, I was my wife's first and she actually said one of the reasons she cheated was the nagging curiosity of what it was like to be with another.
> 
> 
> bottom line is this...
> 
> 
> people who have had multiple sex partners pre-marriage can and will cheat
> people who were virgins pre-marriage can and will cheat
> people who are religious can and will cheat
> people who are not religious can and will cheat
> people who are heterosexual can and will cheat
> people who are homosexual can and will cheat
> people who are poor can and will cheat
> people who are rich can and will cheat
> men can and will cheat
> women can and will cheat
> 
> 
> I can go on, but my point is simple
> 
> there is a considerable percentage of the population who will betray their spouse by adultery of some form. The people who cheat span every social, religious, gender, racial, sexual preference and proclivity, and economic status.


:iagree:

I'm 100% positive I was also my ex-wife's first, yet she cheated. This one claims I was the first, but I'm not so sure, yet she had an EA and I'm 100% sure it would have gone PA if she had the chance. And:

level of education doesn't matter either
age of children or number of children doesn't matter
having a job or being a SAHM/SAHD doesnt matter
number of years married doesn't seem to matter worth a damn


----------



## aug

shocs12 said:


> I will forgive her, but il never trust her ever. Il stick it out for my kids sake, when there old enough ill make another decision.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Forgive but not forget -- that'll take some work and may make you a stronger and better person (or not?).


----------



## that_girl

I was 21 when I lost my viginity--- to a man whom I dated for 10 months.

My friends who waited til marriage were married at 18,19 years old. Wow. Long wait. LOLLL Had I waited til marriage, I'd never had sex because I never wanted to be married. I was married at 33...and no way would I have waited that long. 21 was a good age.


----------



## shocs12

that_girl said:


> I was 21 when I lost my viginity--- to a man whom I dated for 10 months.
> 
> My friends who waited til marriage were married at 18,19 years old. Wow. Long wait. LOLLL Had I waited til marriage, I'd never had sex because I never wanted to be married. I was married at 33...and no way would I have waited that long. 21 was a good age.


thats you, my resolve was strong and with faith i could wait as long as it would take.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovesHerMan

shocs12 said:


> I will forgive her, but il never trust her ever. Il stick it out for my kids sake, when there old enough ill make another decision.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shocs:

This suggests that you will stay together only for the sake of the children and you will divorce her as soon as they are grown. That is not a real marriage. You will continue to resent her if you do this. 

Has she expressed true remorse to you? You must decide if you can truly forgive her, which means that you will rebuild your relationship as a new marriage. The old marriage is gone, but if you really can forgive her, you can have a new relationship. It is the same as for people who forgive adultery. Their marriage is not the same, but the re-dedicate themselves to each other.


----------



## morituri

I understand why you said that you will never trust her but what that essentially will do is pull her away emotionally from you and later on leave you.

A marriage without trust is a sham marriage. Do you want a sham marriage?


----------



## shocs12

Thank you all, for your honesty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bartimaus

Although I have spent most of my life as a christain I have had times that I wasn't. From re-reading my posts in this thread I may be coming from a different perspective or view than most.
Most of the women in my family and my WW's family have been very bad cheats. Including our mothers. One of my wifes sisters was murdered because she cheated,her boyfriend killed her.
I have been surrounded by this all my life. 
But after reading this page of posts I am brought to think of the woman taken in the very act of adultry. "Neither do I condemn thee go and sin no more."
I think of the prostitutes and that life and it's drugs that have destroyed as far as man's opinion but how that God was able to forgive them and make something beautiful out of their once ruined lives.
Shocs12....I see your hurt,lost trust, and how you must view your life with this woman so far now and how you must view your future now. But I wish somehow you and I could change places for a little while and you walk in my shoes. I wish you could change places with the prophet Joel and have to walk in his shoes. Then I wish you could see what I have seen God do with wives and marriages that are alot worse than what you are in. How he can do the impossible healing in hearts and lives that have been devastated and lost all hope in life and in God. I wish this because if you could have lived what I have lived, you then could understand how that your life and situation are not quite as bad as you think it is.


----------



## shocs12

I have decided to get divorced. Is it possible that i may get to see my kids more than twice a month, am hoping the kids would stay with me for atleast a week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arnold

50/50 is a real possibility for dads these days.
How old are they? The court will listen to their desires if they are considered old enough.


----------



## aug

shocs12 said:


> *I have decided to get divorced.* Is it possible that i may get to see my kids more than twice a month, am hoping the kids would stay with me for atleast a week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is that a firm decision or are you thinking about it now?

You mention earlier you'll stay for the kids. Did something else happened?


----------



## lordmayhem

I had to re-read your thread and I didn't see any mention of infidelity. Let me get this straight: You want to divorce her because she lied to you about being a virgin, yet he has been faithful to you all this time? And that for you is a deal breaker. :scratchhead:

What commandments has she broken? What vows has she broken? What other men has she slept with since you've been married to her? If she's been faithful to you your entire marriage, I don't see how you can reconcile this with your religious beliefs. I thought that infidelity is the only valid reason for divorce according to christian beliefs, unless you're not a christian. 

So if you remarry to another woman, are you going to have a doctor examine her for proof of her virginity? And what about you? You certainly won't be a virgin for your virgin wife. Wouldn't that be hypocritical?

I really don't see how this thread is in the coping with infidelity forum


----------



## Initfortheduration

A religious man. Bummer. To bad your not a christian. Then you would be encouraged to forgive her. But being religious it makes it very difficult. Some religious people can be very unforgiving. They refuse to look at Christ on the cross and realize that its them that should be hanging there. I can also wager that you have your share of lies and deceit too. If by chance you do consider yourself a christian, here is a mirror for you.


*ALL* have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. 


That's right *ALL*. So cast that stone, you righteous man.


----------



## aug

Good thing the OP is not God (or have God-like abilities or capabilities?) -- he has much more leeway in what to do. 


Your wife maintained a fundamental lie throughout your marriage.

It's up to you to decide if you can live with such.

The lie will affect your marriage going forward. Whether or not you can live with that is up to you. 

If you do decide to stay, you'll need to learn to forgive your wife. And she needs to cut off all her ex-lovers and toxic friends. Find new common friends.


----------



## tacoma

lordmayhem said:


> I really don't see how this thread is in the coping with infidelity forum



Thank you, I got my head ripped off 6 pages ago for saying the same thing.

"Her lying is the same as if she was unfaithful to him."



Jeez..


----------



## Darth Vader

People! Quit condemning this man! He was lied to from the beginning! His wife should've been straight up and honest to him about screwing around before marriage! _His whole marriage is based on a lie_! (same as infidelity!) He probably wouldn't have married her if he knew, but because she lied to him she robbed him of a future with someone better! At least I feel he feels this way! If the roles were reversed, many of you would've said drop the bastard's ass if he was the one who lied!


----------



## lordmayhem

Darth Vader said:


> People! Quit condemning this man! He was lied to from the beginning! His wife should've been straight up and honest to him about screwing around before marriage! _His whole marriage is based on a lie_! (same as infidelity!) He probably wouldn't have married her if he knew, but because she lied to him she robbed him of a future with someone better! At least I feel he feels this way! If the roles were reversed, many of you would've said drop the bastard's ass if he was the one who lied!


I have to respectfully disagree here. And no, I wouldn't drop a spouse who has been faithful to me all this time just because she lied about being a virgin. IMHO, a marriage is based on a lie when a person marries someone who's heart belongs to someone else and that person keeps that other person in their heart and maintains a relationship with them. I think the biggest example of a marriage based on a lie is Bleeding's marriage. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/34736-wifes-ea-ex-bf-war-veteran-im-so-lost-please-help.html

When you've been nothing but a consolation prize, second place in someone's heart and mind. That's my definition of a marriage being a lie. To me, there's a difference between infidelity and lying. Yes, lying is a part of infidelity, but it's not infidelity itself. She's just guilty about lying about her virginity. If she hasn't been in an affair with anyone of these past lovers or anyone else for that matter while they were married, then I don't see how that can equate to infidelity. Just my two cents.


----------



## morituri

She KNEW before they got married that virginty was a big deal to him - he was a virgin himself - and yet she chose to deceive him that she was a virgin when she was not. It was a deal breaker for him that he would not get married to any woman who was not a virgin. Now he is applying the deal breaker. Agree or not with his beliefs, they are his. Just like an unfaithful wife, his wife lied and deceived. From the time they were courting, at the time of the wedding, and throghout their 12 years of marriage. If he holds true to his beliefs, he will never marry again.


----------



## tacoma

Darth Vader said:


> People! Quit condemning this man! He was lied to from the beginning! His wife should've been straight up and honest to him about screwing around before marriage! _His whole marriage is based on a lie_! (same as infidelity!) !


see?
I don't get it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

This is one of those 'let's agree to disagree' themes.


----------



## Locard

Lots of shaming going on here. Attacks based on his Christian faith are quite hollow to me.....People, it got you stoned to death in the old testament, don't be throwing stones at him.


----------



## Catherine602

I am not sure why this issue is such a contentious one. No one of us would takes being deceived in any area in our lives lightly, especially when it comes to love and lifetime committment. We would also take issue if our belief system were attacked. I think he has a right to his beliefs, he seems to be a good man and a husband any woman would cherish. So where is the problem?? 

The way I see it is that the deep love that develops after the honeymoon phase, is based on seeing a mates faults and authentic self and loving them anyway. He appears to have made that wonderful transition. So where is the problem?? 

I would go so far as to say that this man was not only decieved but defrauded. His wife hid an important part of herself and therefore, by the nature of her deception, denied him love and the full acceptance of an intimate relationship. This is no small thing and is really tragic because he was good and devoted and for his reward he is humiliated and disrespected. That is the problem. 

The issue of whether or not sex before marriage or a woman's choice to have sex is ok or the nature of his Christian beliefs, does not figure into it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Locard

A big AMEN. 

I can understand the feeling that maybe he is making a mistake if only for his kids sake. But it is his life.


----------



## TRy

Some of you are forgetting that some of the men that she sleep with were people that they knew and socialized with. That he spoke to these OM at parties where they knew that they had sleep with his wife and that the husband did not know. It was a big secret that people he knew including these OM kept from him. He was on the outside and everyone else including these OM were on the inside. 

Because of his strong religious conviction he was a virgin when he got married. He thought that she was the same. He probably over the years mentioned the fact that they were both virgins with pride in conversation to people, many of whom (including the other men that she slept with) knew otherwise as they kept the secret; some may have been laughing about it when they told others. He is imagining that they may have said things such as "he thinks that he and his marriage are so holy, little does he know, hehehe, and boy did she give a good BJ". He is imagining that much of what he said about his faith was laughed off by people that knew about the secret. He was made to be everyone's fool by her.

Another thing. How would you feel about it if your wife had been socializing with ex-lovers at parties without her having told you her history with them? You would feel betrayed and pissed and with good reason. His religious conviction does not give his wife a pass on this.


----------



## Ello1012

just like smopking weed, drinking alcohol, stealing, lieing..adultry and infidelity/Lust...has always been a moral issue that human beings should obstain from. trying to be a godo person is the key, don't do bad things, even if the devil whispers bad things into your ears or your head bringing evil desires..restrain from them. SEX IS GOOD when you're Married, besides that it's a trick and the end is worse then what you may feel in that sec. peace...even if you feel good. Good things are good things bad things are bad things, Adultry is a very bad thing.peace!Lol:!) So is premarital intercourse for many reasons too.peacE!lol:!)


----------



## morituri

There is also his statement that his wife said to him she did not regret having had sex with them because she became a better person for it ( :scratchhead: ). She obviously has a different set of beliefs than he was lead to believe, by her. Granted that his wife may be another mother Teresa and many a betrayed husband would like to have as a wife, but that takes a back seat to her lying and deceiving.


----------



## RClawson

tacoma said:


> So when my wife lied to me about buying that $80.00 pair of shoes she was guilty of infidelity?
> 
> By your definition she was.
> 
> I`m not prepared to rape the English language in such a manner.
> 
> You feel free to twist it however you like though..enjoy.


Try reading the definition again..........slowly.


----------



## TRy

morituri said:


> There is also his statement that his wife said to him she did not regret having had sex with them because she became a better person for it ( :scratchhead: ). She obviously has a different set of beliefs than he was lead to believe, by her.


Good point. Hard for him to forgive when she has no remorse.



morituri said:


> Granted that his wife may be another mother Teresa and many a betrayed husband would like to have as a wife, but that takes a back seat to her lying and deceiving.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Ello1012

morituri said:


> There is also his statement that his wife said to him she did not regret having had sex with them because she became a better person for it ( :scratchhead: ). She obviously has a different set of beliefs than he was lead to believe, by her. Granted that his wife may be another mother Teresa and many a betrayed husband would like to have as a wife, but that takes a back seat to her lying and deceiving.


Really?..ha. she could not only be lieing to him, but she might also be lieing to herself if she thinks Adultry has made her a better person lol! PEace!Lol:!)


----------



## Ello1012

But I don't know...my religion believes in mercy...


----------



## Ello1012

I believe in doing the right adn good things God willing, sorry for the back biting my lord ameen asalaam wah ASalaam Alaikum klol..peace!Lol:!)


----------



## Ello1012

you knopw everyone is flawed..she mgith have lied it's between her and the 1 and only..In my religion of Islam...you must be merciful to others in order to have God's mercya nd be accepted into ehaven. If she's a faithful loving wife, adn she wants to be forgiven for lieing to you and allowing something liek this to happen. have mercy... you might ruin a godo thing if we are all not merciful. May God guide you and your family, and lets hope only good thinsg happen now. Btw, having sex before marriage is definitly a big no no, have mercy God willing, if she wants to be with you forever god willingoklol..peacE! asalaam oklol..peace!Lo;0!


----------



## Ello1012

Adultry is another issue.


----------



## Ello1012

And God loves to test us, because he loves us. AlaahuAkbar maeen asalam wah asalaam Alaikum oklol..peacE!Lol!


----------



## tacoma

RClawson said:


> Try reading the definition again..........slowly.


For what purpose exactly?

I am aware of what infidelity is regardless of what your dictionary states it is.

Again...I will not stretch the meaning of a thing to fit into your pre-concieved box.


----------



## Arnold

To me, it is not important that this is not infidelity. This woman defrauded her husband and induced him into marriage through deception. He has every right to feel betrayed(he was).

If I stike a deal with someone and later learn that a critical element upon which I relied was fictitious, I would not want to deal with that person again. And, I would certainly not feel bound by the agreement.


----------



## [email protected]

any updates?


----------

