# Need some outside perspective



## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Hello,

I have encountered a situation with my serious girlfriend of 3 years that I need help in evaluating. 

We are both in our early 50’s, and we live in different cities, about 30 miles apart. She knows a lot of people, young and old, in her town, and often when we go out, she runs into someone she knows, usually male. The conversation centers around things they have in common, and I am often left feeling like a spectator.

Several times, while together at a lounge, she will somehow engage a conversation with a complete stranger, putting me in an uncomfortable position. Additionally, I have twice come out of the bathroom to find some random guy chatting her up, and have to wait patiently in my seat until she gets the hint.

It initially angered me to the point we almost broke up, but she insisted that she just doesn’t know how to resist an innocent conversation due to her friendly disposition. I agree that she is super friendly, but am growing tired of having to remind her about the predatory nature of guys. She argues there is no blame to be had, as she is not the one seeking out these interactions.

Twice, I have noticed her so enthusiastic about a conversation that she will tap or grab a stranger’s arm to emphasize her point, which has really set me off (and discussed with her).

I would say in the past 2 years I have been made uncomfortable 7 times, so certainly not every time we go out. However, they add up over time and are hard to forget once another episode develops.

The reason I’m posting today is that it happened yesterday. We finished a bike ride at a local bar for a beer to wrap up the ride. A couple sat down next to us, and my girl decided to make a comment about the restaurant displayed on the guy’s shirt. Well, it didn’t take him long to settle in to a nice long chat about it, and I had no horse in the race. Even if I did, I can’t tolerate being drawn into a conversation that further engages this guy with my girl.

After getting him out of the picture, and finishing our drinks, I left to use the bathroom. I had resisted going, due to my worry about leaving her alone, but figured we were about to leave so I should. When I came out, 45 seconds later, my girl was up at the bar cashing out, standing right next to the guy and saying goodbye. 

I brought up the incident and how it made me feel (again!) immediately. She got really defensive and said she left her seat to open it up for others, and the guy made a comment to her about leaving without saying goodbye, so she engaged him while cashing out. Completely innocent banter...

So, in a nutshell, I believe my girl is sincere about just being friendly and is not interested in anything other than social chatting with these guys. However, it puts me in a bad place every time.

So, what do you think? 

Do I just need to chill out and let her continue to have her fun, do I join her in this game and seek to engage with strange women in front of her, or do I just give up and move on? Serious questions...what is your advice?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Loveherorleave? 

In my opinion, this may be SOMEWHAT related to an introvert/extrovert kind of personality mismatch, and MORESO related to a person with poor boundaries. Here's what I mean:

I am what I call an omnivert--I recharge like an introvert, and can not stand large parties, huge concerts, carnivals or festivals crammed full of people, giant churches, etc. You get the idea. And yet, I am very friendly, and I've had instances where I'm in the grocery store and see my pastor, or I'm at the library and see our banker, and I'll strike up a very surface, civil, polite little conversation. I like peole and I like to talk, so a little social chit chat and we're done. So if maybe you are an introvert or lean that way a little, and she is an extrovert and leans that way a LOT...there may be some level of mismatch going on that the two of you could be aware of and reach a mutual agreement.

However, I think the poor boundaries is a bigger issue her. Over and over again, you have indicated your discomfort with one-on-one discussions with males (period) and she does it anyway, thus she knows it bothers you and doesn't mind bothering you. Over and over again, you've tried to discuss that you think many of the guys have an ulterior motive--and they may or may not but suffice it to say, some do!--and she knows that some guys have an ulterior motive and does it anyway. This is poor boundaries surrounding PROTECTING THE EXCLUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. 

Now here's what I mean--an example. First, I don't talk single males when I'm out and about period. If they say "hi" or wave, I'm not a jerk, but I wave and move on...or I say "Hi! I'll let Beloved Hubby know I saw ya and say hi for ya!" and move on. Next, I'll talk for a minute to my pastor, because he's married, he's my minister, and about 99% of the time I run into him when I'm with my mother-in-law! So the message is clear that I'm talking groceries and I'm with my family whom I love and there is no room for anything untoward. Next if Beloved Hubby and I are out and about and I run into the guy who he works with... I may say "Oh hi!" and smile, and then I grab hubby and bring him into the conversation! 

The concept in all of these examples of protective boundaries is INCLUSION rather than EXCLUSION. Ideally, both partners make the effort to include their partner in every single conversation, either by talking about their partner, bringing up their name, pulling 'em over into the discussion, introducing...something! But even deeper than that, you'd include your partner in your thoughts, include them in your actions, include them by being caring and kind to them, include them by being thoughtful of their requests, etc. 

So I can't tell you if you should "love her or leave her" but if I were you, I'd sure evaluate carefully. Poor boundaries don't get better with time unless the person makes the effort to grow and mature.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Sorry, sounds too much like my ex wife.
She did exactly the same things at bars and locations.
I'd tell your gf "It's time to go" see if she leaves with you. Right then.
If she doesn't get the message, leave both her and the relationship. 
She desires attention too much from other men and that my friend can sink a ship....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I have a different take.

You’re both in your 50s. You both know who you are. 

When she says she’s innocent and unable to “resist” talking to strangers, she’s lying. She knows what’s up. When you’re on a date with her, she views it as an opportunity to go spend time with everyone, not just you. And that’s OK if that’s what she wants.

But I suspect it’s not what you want.

When I was in my 20’s, I dated someone like this. I brought it up a couple of times - that when I took her out, she ended up being chatted up by every guy in the place. She called it jealousy, I called it respect. She agreed to tone it down, and I told her I was only going to do 1-1ish kinda stuff with her. Which worked out ok.

Until I walked out of the bathroom at a cozy restaurant I had taken her, and some dude was sitting with her in the booth, in my spot. She was happily chatting away. I walked up, she said “Hi, this is whoever, and he was telling me about this great place we could go to after dinner...”

And I just said “Hi whoever, I’ve paid my half of the bill, she’s all yours. I’ll warn you though, she’ll only be interested in you until the next guy comes along.”

And I walked out the door. I’m very glad I did. 

You two want totally different things. You’re in your 50s. Go find someone where it isn’t a bunch of hard work and jumping through hoops just to date them. And she obviously wants to play the field, even while on a date. Being with these kinds of people is infuriating. I even had a woman ask me out, only to find out she asked another guy out at the same time. She was literally on a date with both of us at the same club, and didn’t know why that was a big deal. Again, with her I just walked away. 

Life is short. She’s not being honest with you. When she goes on a date with you, she’s scanning the room and open to Mr. Next. That’s just not cool, even if you’re not exclusively dating.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

My take is that she likes the attention she is receiving, and you have 'Nice Guy' tendencies, and you both have poor boundaries.

I would think that if a stranger engaged her in conversation (as in the bar when you used the restroom and some dude was chatting her up when you came back), the correct and respectful thing to do would have been to introduce you as her boyfriend and then thank him for the chat but we're on a date night so later dude. But you also sit passively by and allow this to happen. It's perfectly acceptable for you to introduce yourself as her boyfriend, and then give the friendly send off (f-off if you will) - hey nice to meet you pal, but we're here on a date night, so thanks for the chat but we'll be getting back to our date.

Without being too specific, can you describe what she does for a living?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I would leave the restaurant if a date pulled this crap. 
You’re in your fifties as is she. If she can’t give her attention to the guy she’s with at her age she never will. 
You are being naive and she is also gaslighting you. She loves the attention it’s that simple. 
Life is too short for to accept this behavior.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Leave. Her behavior is disrespectful and not conducive to a long-term relationship. At best, she's naieve about men's intentions if she genuinely thinks they're just being friendly. There's really no point in trying to change this part of her. You can get on her case and maybe she'll rein it in for a little while, but she'll eventually go right back to it. This is the kind of personality trait that dating is meant to expose. And not only is it just an incompatibility, it's not appropriate for someone in a relationship. It's time to move on to find someone else.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

You have expressed your concerns with her enough. I would cut ties with the last and final explanation. She should not be surprised. You will not change. She will not change. At the end of the day, I think she likes the attention.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Serious girlfriend = exclusive girlfriend? What does she see from her side of the table? Are you an exclusive boyfriend, and more than that, someone she sees a future with? Or are you someone to pass the time with for a few years? Not even interested in "till death do we part" possibilities? 

Definite boundary issues but I don't know how the two of you got to be 50 years old without figuring this stuff out at the start (establishing boundaries). Both of you have past relationships that did and didn't work out, right? There were no red flags? How did you meet this woman?

I'm reluctant to blame her for everything without knowing what each of you has made clear, in terms of commitment, to the other.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You could muscle in on the conversations? If you did, what would happen?

There seems to be a personality mismatch, here.

What do you want to happen?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I see it as you are the warden and soon maybe the marriage warden, she has no respect for you! No honor, only indulgence for herself. Why do you want someone like that a tease and flirt. No way no how, you will spend the rest of your life, as her daddy. You know the ones who deifying daddies warnings and rolling her eyes you know like she already does.

Move on Sir, she's too loose and maybe in the caboose.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

OP:

1. First of all, let's decide if her behavior is acceptable or not acceptable. 

It has become fashionable these days that when a guy criticizes the behavior of a female partner, typically over these type of "boundary issues", the guy is called "controlling" or "insecure." I am going to explain why I think that sort of labelling doesn't fly.

I'll use two analogies to illustrate my point. (Maybe you could use them to explain your point of view to your girlfriend.) In the first, I would point out that I come from a mixed ethnic/racial cultural background, including language. It would be considered very rude in my family for two people to speak in their common language and exclude the third (or more) people who could not understand. There is an obligation to include everyone in the conversation. You are being marginalized in an analogous fashion. (Her decision to discuss with guys the "things they have in common", "leaving you as a spectator" is essentially the same thing.)
A second, and more important analogy would be one of a professional appointment. If you had an appointment with a doctor or lawyer, and started to discuss important issues, you would not appreciate it if someone else came into the room and the doctor/lawyer started spending 20 minutes talking about issues common to them, leaving you just sitting there. That interloper would be intruding on time set aside for you and that doctor/lawyer. It's even worse that the doctor/lawyer doesn't recognize the commitment they have to give you all their attention in the allotted time. It means they don't value you and the time set aside for you. In a similar fashion, your "date time" with your girlfriend is time set aside for you both to build a relationship. It is just as rude and demeaning for her to spend YOUR date time focusing on another person, as it would be for a doctor/lawyer to spend your appointment time on other people. 

So, my answer is, no, her behavior is NOT acceptable. And you're NOT being "controlling" or "insecure", so don't accept any labels like that if they come up.

2. Since we have established that her behavior is NOT acceptable, you have to consider the implications/outcomes here.

a) She may be a person who does not have the capacity to be introspective enough to recognize when her behavior is violating the limits of acceptable behavior, as illustrated in my analogies. If so, she is unlikely to be able to change at her age. Behavior patterns tend to be too ingrained in your 50s. It's a bad sign for a long-tern relationship, and you probably should follow through on your impulse to break up. But now you can feel justified.
b) She may realize her behavior is violating the limits, but just not care enough about you. (I think this is less likely, but let's consider that.) If so, that's an even WORSE sign for a long-term relationship. You can't be with someone who doesn't value you. 
c) It's possible that she was just oblivious to these perspectives, and when shown how it impacts and demeans you, she may completely change. That would be a good outcome if it occurred, but I think that's unlikely to happen. You have ALREADY expressed your displeasure with her boundary violations, yet the problem persists. I therefore think she is unlikely to be able to make a lasting change, especially in her 50s. I hate to be pessimistic, but I think you also have to be realistic. She might be able to pull off a short-term change, but I think the odds are against it being a lasting change. 

3. Given that her behavior is NOT acceptable, and that the odds are that she won't be able make a lasting change, if I were you I wouldn't persist in the relationship.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have encountered a situation with my serious girlfriend of 3 years that I need help in evaluating.
> 
> ...


She's wrong.

And she's wrong because regardless of who "seeks out these interactions", she has an OBLIGATION to focus her attention on you when she is with you. It's just like the analogy I used in the prior post---when you are at a doctor or lawyer appointment, that professional has an OBLIGATION to focus their attention on you during that time, not spend it talking with other people on your time. And if they don't recognize that, it means that the doctor/lawyer doesn't value you or your time with them. 

So, yes, there is blame to be had. The blame is not recognizing and fulfilling her simple social/human OBLIGATION she has during her time with you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

30 miles is a long distance.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's a personality trait... she is not going to change in her '50s and, if you don't like it, you should stop seeing her, especially because it's clear you don't trust her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OP

No reason to hang around for her pleasure while being second fiddle.

Find someone you won't have to have these worries with. At this time in life, you and she know what things are about. 

She's using you. 

Split my man. You deserve better.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She may consider herself to just be friendly but that's not the message she's sending to these strange men she's talking to. Whatever the situation really is, she likes it and she's not going to change. 

Ever wonder what goes on when you're not around? You should.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

A couple of observations. One, she is clearly inviting these interactions somehow. Men dont normally just approach women who they can see is out with another guy, as a general rule. (yes, always exceptions) On the very rare occasion a man approaches me, I make sure that I acknowledge him in a decent manner, (ie, dont be a b!tch) but then dismiss and move on with my date. The fact that she sits and actively engages shows interest, and this is clearly a boost for her ego when this occurs. The second observation is how you sit there passively allowing this to happen. Why? You dont have to start a fight with the guy to indicate he needs to move along. You are unintentionally showing her that you are ok with this, but then telling her you are not. 

This may be her base personality, but by not reining it in, she is showing you tremendous disrespect because she knows it bothers you. And to me, that is your hint to bow out of this and find a woman who only has eyes for you when you are out.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> This may be her base personality, but by not reining it in, she is showing you tremendous disrespect because she knows it bothers you.


It's difficult to change your personality in 5 minutes when you are over 50... I couldn't... :laugh: she is the way she is. I think they are just not compatible.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

You are asking her not only to change her behavior, but her very personality, and I think that's asking too much. You two are in your fifties, your personalities are well formed. I think she will never be happy only talking to you and you will never be happy sharing her. 

So....seems like a mis match to me.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

No such thing as "Just friends"


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So @Loveherorleave?, how are things going? Have you discussed with her? Have you seen any more actions on her part positive or negative?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> 30 miles is a long distance.


Maybe in the UK it is. 
I’ve often driven thirty miles for pizza.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Cooper said:


> You are asking her not only to change her behavior, but her very personality, and I think that's asking too much. You two are in your fifties, your personalities are well formed. I think she will never be happy only talking to you and you will never be happy sharing her.
> 
> So....seems like a mis match to me.


Yes, her personality of treating her boyfriend like dirt by flirting with every guy at the bar in front of him is well-formed, and any claim she's just friendly should be dismissed out of hand. As a 50-year-old drinker/bar-goer, she knows exactly what she's doing. 



StillSearching said:


> No such thing as "Just friends"


Agreed. If half the time she was talking to other women, maybe, MAYBE you could chalk this up to her simply being a chatty Cathy, and not knowing how to say no to other guys. But it sounds like in every case, she's chatting (flirting really) with some guy. Hope he moved on.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

This was awkward to read because you pretty much described me. :surprise:

It doesn’t matter where I am or who I am with, strangers engage with me. I’m a friendly person, and I like visiting with other people. 

My H would agree with you, that when it is men, he thinks they are all trying to get in my pants. Probably true some of the time, but not always. My XH disliked that I was so “nice”. He only wanted the focus to be on him, all the time. My H now is less bothered by it for sure. He is friendly also, and much less threatened by others talking to me, thank goodness.

In these scenarios, I am NOT flirting, these men have zero chance with me. I only have eyes for Mr Spicy. Plus it’s women sometimes too! My personality is such that people talk to me. It has always been this way. I can’t control it. It’s a bizarre thing, but my mom has the same issues with strangers. 

So my response to your question is: either chill out and stop trying to change her, or free her to be who she is. She is friendly. There are a lot worse qualities out there...and guess what...I bet *you* were drawn to this quality of hers. So ruminate on that idea for a while.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Spicy said:


> This was awkward to read because you pretty much described me. :surprise:
> 
> It doesn’t matter where I am or who I am with, strangers engage with me. I’m a friendly person, and I like visiting with other people.
> 
> ...


THIS ^^^^^^

I prefer talking to men. Women can be competitive and snarky. 
Its her personality. 
You two are simply incompatible. You wont change and neither will she.
Be true to your own personality and find someone that you fit better with.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

What attracted you to her in the first place? And how did you reciprocate to her? Is she doing something outside of her personality? But being as I am l would never ever place myself 2nd, and you have told her already but where the problem occurs is you not being assertive to the other men. Time has come to get some balls. So who cares if you get your butt kicked or not. Bruises go away but scars to your heart don't.

Just be a braver/bolder man and put yourself out there. Next time a man has your seat in the booth gets his attention first, and look him in the eye and tell him to get out and move along. And be ready to back it up! You need some balls, and if she doesn't like the new you it is time to move on.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Spicy said:


> This was awkward to read because you pretty much described me. :surprise:
> 
> It doesn’t matter where I am or who I am with, strangers engage with me. I’m a friendly person, and I like visiting with other people.
> 
> ...





aquarius1 said:


> THIS ^^^^^^
> 
> I prefer talking to men. Women can be competitive and snarky.
> Its her personality.
> ...


This seems to be one of those things men and women frequently disagree about... friends or flirting. 

I like to think there could be some objective standard both sexes agree on, of when which is which. And while not also engaging in double standards (e.g. "_it's okay if I talk to guys, because I trust myself not to go further, but it's not okay for him to talk to other women, because... reasons_") 

I never had an issue with any partner talking to other guys generally, but it was usually obvious to me when it was innocent, and when the guy wanted in her pants. If he had the decency to be respectful, or courteous to me, that was big tell. And I presume the same goes for women.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Loveherorleave? said:


> and often when we go out, she runs into someone she knows, * usually male.* The conversation centers around things they have in common, and I am often left feeling like a spectator.
> 
> he got really defensive and said she left her seat to open it up for others, and *the guy made a comment to her about leaving without saying goodbye,* so she engaged him while cashing out. Completely innocent banter...


The red flag is that the people she talks with while on dates with you are usually male. She has poor boundaries, and loves the attention. I would think that a woman in her 50's would have more in common with other women.

The fact that she is in her 50's tells you that she has been this way for many years, and she is not going to change now.

The guy saying she was "leaving without saying goodbye" was definitely flirtacious. Strangers have no obligation to say "goodbye" to each other. She was under no obligation to continue talking with him just because he said that.

The two of you are definitely mismatched. She has no sense of propriety when on a date. Let her find a guy who doesn't mind her flirting with men even when on a date, so you can find one who only has eyes for you.

Trust yourself. The woman is not behaving like she wants to settle down with one man.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Aaack! Flashback to a date I was on about 20 years ago. 

Semi long time GF and I went to a bar and of course she's chatting with everyone, paying about 20% of her attention to the date we were on. Eventually there 5 of us at a table, the other couple left and the other guy stayed and would not leave...I went and paid our tab came back to the table, and then I said are you two good? I'm taking off. 
I left she chased me down and said I embarrassed her, she was sorry but she liked to meet people. We broke up soon after that.

The thing is, that is what attracted me to her at the start, but after a while it drove me crazy.


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## Loveherorleave? (Oct 7, 2019)

Thanks for the replies. We are still together, and she has claimed over and over that she loves me like no other, and wants to be with me the rest of our lives.

I believe her, and don’t question her fidelity. I’m still just trying to figure out to what extent I need her to modify her behavior versus me modifying my expectations.

I suppose, if it happens again, I will just head for a cute single lady at the bar and strike up my own conversation. Then she may finally get clarity on the issue!


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Loveherorleave? said:


> Thanks for the replies. We are still together, and she has claimed over and over that she loves me like no other, and wants to be with me the rest of our lives.
> 
> I believe her, and don’t question her fidelity. I’m still just trying to figure out to what extent I need her to modify her behavior versus me modifying my expectations.
> 
> I suppose, if it happens again, *I will just head for a cute single lady at the bar and strike up my own conversation*. Then she may finally get clarity on the issue!


Why play this one to one game?

Life is hard.

Why are you making your life harder?

Why even "if this happens again I'll ....."?


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