# Wife had affair 2 months after we got married



## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Few months ago I descovered very harshly that my wife who I just married was out cheating on me. We have 2 year old girl and 6 year old boy togather we've been togather 8 years and just got married recently. The wedding was very stressful as it was very expensive I was very busy working 6 days a week plus side work to pay for it. She was under impression I was not wanting anything to do with it because I did not care and honestly did not think me paying for it wasn't enough involvment. We worked opposite schedules me 6am to 6pm I would pick up the kids from sitters as she started her work at 5pm usually 4-5 days a week and she usually worked till 10-2am depending on how busy. Problem was after we got married we never see each other. We've determined the flaws in the relationship it's been 5 months since it happened .she attempted suicide about 2 hours after she returned home the night I discovered her cheating with the kids awake in her care in the house as I called her and told her I was to much of a mess to watch the kids and she needs to come home. I found her upstairs overdosed on over 200 random pills .called 911 ect... I spent night in emergency right beside her crying cleaning her puke and foam or what ever was coming up ,I hadn't even got a chance yet to speak to her about it now I was in emergency and she was overdosed looking like she was dying. It was by far the most traumatic events in my life so far and I am no stranger to trauma 12 years ago an attempt on my life was made and a serious car crash so I'm pretty good at coping and traumatic situations. 


So after all this she spent 4 days in hospital in which I was beside her almost the entire time ,I told myself she just made a mistake I'm going to be her husband hero ect. Well few weeks after all this happened she swore she told me everything but I uncovered more real hurtful things and went absolutely crazy I went into a rage I cannot remember like a bad dream with no control except all I wanted to do was drag her into the basement so the kids would not hear me scream at her. I did drag her out of bed shook her drag her down stairs ,I lost it and I couldn't even remember much of what happened I am very fortunate I did not do anything more than I did I never hit her but I did emotionally and physically abuse her . Before any of all this happened I uncovered she had been up to no good and she straight up told me she had been kissing somebody and its felt so good to cheat on me. After I kept uncovering more the blame was completely shifted onto me. And after I went off the deep end the blame was 100% me I am the bad guy now and I feel that it's unrepairable. She was and is still bringing up everything bad I've ever said or done over the 8 years we been togather ,she went to her parents after and showed them bruises and told them I abused her and all the bad I've ever done ect.. Two sides to each story she played a bad part over the years too but anyways aside from all that she shifted the blame to me and I'm not sure exactly what she wanted to accomplish her parents were the first people I told she was cheating. Now I think it was to make it seem like what she did was not so bad to them. 

I'm not sure that a person that can tell me to my face she enjoyed cheating on me deserves forgiveness ,or a person who could traumatized me so badly with a serious suicide attempt and turn that around because I freaked out on her. I probably should not have even been at home I'm suffering real bad from ptsd and at that moment I had no control but I did take full resposibility appoligized called her dad appoligized to her family and took it like a man. She holds that on me like I am the biggest piece of crap ever . 

I would like some advice.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

You are no good for each other. Best to part ways. Make sure you get yourself and your kids into counseling.

Good luck my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

She has later been diagnosed with bpd I pretty much have to force her to go to the doctor and psyciatrisst 

She is intelligent has a bit higher iq than me we are both successful togather we have built so much I don't want to give up but I feel like I'm holding onto something that is not there. Somebody who is sorry would not shift the blame onto me. I understand in the beginning when I uncovered it but after that I've gone through a terrible amount of stuff here and she is the selfish person that has put me through it.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

I really want us to stay togather I love her I just hate the situation she has forced me to be in


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

She has cheated multiple times, and has used suicide as a way to deflect the attention of her affairs off of herself. All this with a few months of marriage.

She pushes your buttons to the point that you get enraged and are physical with her.

I don't see how this relationship can get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

We have done a lot of counselling I've also got a lot of help at hospital for post traumatic symptoms and see my doctor regular.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> Few months ago I descovered very harshly that my wife who I just married was out cheating on me. We have 2 year old girl and 6 year old boy togather we've been togather 8 years and just got married recently.


DNA the kids.

I'll read the rest later.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> She has cheated multiple times, and has used suicide as a way to deflect the attention of her affairs off of herself. All this with a few months of marriage.
> 
> She pushes your buttons to the point that you get enraged and are physical with her.
> 
> ...



She says she only cheated one night with this guy. My friend happened to be DJ at a bar and seen them out. She was supposed to be at work instead she was extremely deceitful brought change of clothing to work and went out after while I was in bed watching the kids. I even remember texting her photos of our daughter to her that night around 10pm than she still had it in her to cheat on me. It's hard to believe first time it ever happened my friend busted her and I seen phone text records shows about 2 weeks of conversations between the two of them. I know for a fact only reason she stopped was because I broke it up. I am no slouch this guy is terrified of me he is a parasite who apparently had been repeatedly tried to get her after work many nights .she worked in a pub. She could have easily got rid of him herself but because of us not seeing each other and her being a bit stressed out I guess the moon was aligned just right for her to do it. Well that's her story. I think it was planned. She says it was one time only and they never barely texted but I see over 60 texts over 12 day span some were late night and 8 am next morning. Very alarming to me as she denied everything to the death almost. 


-She quit the pub job

-She stopped contact with all those friends and all the looser friends that were just parasites on our marriage. 

-We did do lots of therapy 

-her mental illness was brought to light she is getting help


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> DNA the kids.
> 
> I'll read the rest later.


The kids are mine lol


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

We have made a lot of progress intensity is down frequency is down maybe I have one blowout per week. I still think about a few things like her telling me she enjoyed cheating on me and that she shifted the guilt and tried to make me look like the bad guy. But besides the hurt I have Been getting better she has too but what really does she have to get better from all the bull**** we are going through she caused. I would just like to know if it's normal after 4-5 months to still be angry sometimes and have a blowout or fight a few times a month


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> The kids are mine lol


without DNA testing you don't know.

And the point is shock and awe to her that you do not trust her to that extent.

she is a classic cheat and blameshifting her cheating to be your fault. this is classic cheater script.

you're the crazy one... and she will re-write marital history to make you the evil vile creature she makes you out to be.

expose her to family and friends. they need to know the truth to support you and your marriage. exposure also gives her consequences.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Many betrayed spouses can still be angry many years after the fact.

What has she done to try to be remorseful? Or are you doing all the heavy lifting trying to fix things? Beyond quittjng the job and ditching the toxic friends- what is she doing to help YOU heal from this?

Regarding DNA The kids. That wasn't mentioned to be glib. There are many dads out there who say "they are my kids" later to find out, nope they aren't. But you seem confident they are yours. That's fine and I'm sure they are. But you run the test to show HER just how much she has f--ked up your trust, that the very foundation of everything you've come to believe is now in question due to her vulgar behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Q tip said:


> without DNA testing you don't know.
> 
> And the point is shock and awe to her that you do not trust her to that extent.
> 
> ...



I have extremely strong german genetics My kids looked exactly like my dad at birth and all my brothers and me. Only way they are not mine is if she slept with one of them lol


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

do not let her rugsweep. you too. if she does not face and own 100% responsibility, she will continue her waywardness.

this may help her understand, share it if shes ready...

=========cut here=========


Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacksö assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

mattpf1 said:


> I have extremely strong german genetics My kids looked exactly like my dad at birth and all my brothers and me. Only way they are not mine is if she slept with one of them lol


We've seen that too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> I have extremely strong german genetics My kids looked exactly like my dad at birth and all my brothers and me. Only way they are not mine is if she slept with one of them lol


thats not the point. its the message she gets from testing them. its chess, not checkers.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

I do understand why you guys say get the tests done. She has destroyed my world our finances our everything pretty much right now. I don't sleep. What I seen when she was overdosing in the hospital was insane. She was dying they just saved her and I witnessed it. 

I have pretty much done majority of the heavy lifting. Well that's how I feel and that's why I'm still a bit pissed. If I cheated on her I would have said I'm sorry and made it better just as I did when I lost it on her. I'm not sure she is a type of person deserving of forgiveness it's been 4 months and a bit. When ever I bring anything up she says she already answered that question or usually gets heated. That's not sorry to me. I know I would answer the same question a million times if needed for her.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

if shes not lifting a finger (serious mega heavy lifting) here, file for D. you can always cancel or delay at any time. you need to give her serious consequences that you will back up.

this is no game. DNA the kids, File,have her served. Now you have leverage.

if shes not a crying, snot bubbling pile of human stain on the ground before you, totally remorseful and begging for a real chance - you'll know what to do. better free of her than a lifetime of this.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

She told her parents because you had told them about her cheating first. I'm not saying either of you did wrong, but she was feeling all of the judgement and guilt alone for her actions. She wanted to tell them because, for most people, cheating is very bad, but if you are cheating on someone who physically abuses you, it won't seem quite as bad, and the abuser will lose most of the sympathy they had. It certainly can make a possible reconciliation more difficult because now you both have to deal with the opinions and judgement of other people beyond yourselves, unfortunately.

You guys have just got to get into marriage counseling, or I don't see much hope. She needs to come clean on every detail of any boundaries she crossed, but she now has very good reason to fear doing so. You need to do your best to decide if you still want to be with her, even if you do get the full truth. Try to decide if you think you'll be able to forgive her in time if she is doing the right things to help you heal, or if you'll just never be able to move past it and trust her again. The counselor can help you with all of this.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

yes, any physical or emotional abuse is seriously wrong


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Q tip said:


> do not let her rugsweep. you too. if she does not face and own 100% responsibility, she will continue her waywardness.
> 
> this may help her understand, share it if shes ready...
> 
> ...


I found this online few months ago and made her read it. She is very resentful towards me reading things online because she will always say things like "your going to let Google decide your relationship" 

She is also mentally ill you guys. Bpd is a pretty serious thing. She is smart though and functions until stressed. Usually when I mention I'm hurting she will turn it around on her and say you don't care about how I feel. 

I just do t know how to get out of this rut or if there even is a point. Bottom line is I love my family her included. It will be a shamed to split up. I just can't bare the thought of living with a marriage attached to a traumatic infidelity . The suicide part has really messed with my brain and I think probably one of the reasons I even stayed I felt so bad after and just wanted to be her hero after but was not even looked at as one. I saved her life.child service police were all at my house after than her mother came over and was trying to down play it to them "ohh it was just a cry for help" the child services lady said no it was very serious and she could be dead he saved her life. Her family has been terrible support for her with all but terrible advice to her.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

You are correct- that's an issue. Rule of thumb if you need a question answered 100 times, she answers it 100 times. Barking back at you tells me she just wants to move on, your feelings be damned.

If I may ask what did she OD on? I can't imagine having 200 of any pills around, maybe Tylenol. And "all" that will do is mess up your liver.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Q tip said:


> if shes not lifting a finger (serious mega heavy lifting) here, file for D. you can always cancel or delay at any time. you need to give her serious consequences that you will back up.
> 
> this is no game. DNA the kids, File,have her served. Now you have leverage.
> 
> if shes not a crying, snot bubbling pile of human stain on the ground before you, totally remorseful and begging for a real chance - you'll know what to do. better free of her than a lifetime of this.


^
Nailed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Q tip said:


> if shes not lifting a finger (serious mega heavy lifting) here, file for D. you can always cancel or delay at any time. you need to give her serious consequences that you will back up.
> 
> this is no game. DNA the kids, File,have her served. Now you have leverage.
> 
> if shes not a crying, snot bubbling pile of human stain on the ground before you, totally remorseful and begging for a real chance - you'll know what to do. better free of her than a lifetime of this.


Her mental illness will set her over edge. I bet she would commit suicide. That's what I'm scared of. I'm scared to go back to work because if I text her when I'm upset stressed she freaks out and cannot cope. Her way of coping was trying to slit her wrist the first time. Than I actually found out what happened called her mom and dad and than she mixed about 200 random pills into wine and made a lethal ****tail and went into an overdose state for 10 hour or longer.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Google has never cheated on you, tell her.

BPD is very serious, but it's not an excuse to cheat or a get out of jail free card. 

You aren't obligated to stand by her through her BPD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

google is not deciding your relationship, her cheating has.

therapy now, file now DNA the kids now. have a plan, now.

what is your desired result. how feasible is it. what alternatives have you considered.

the kids are a priority. exposing them to a cheating, sick mother, not so much???


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> Her mental illness will set her over edge. I bet she would commit suicide. That's what I'm scared of. I'm scared to go back to work because if I text her when I'm upset stressed she freaks out and cannot cope. Her way of coping was trying to slit her wrist the first time. Than I actually found out what happened called her mom and dad and than she mixed about 200 random pills into wine and made a lethal ****tail and went into an overdose state for 10 hour or longer.


ok,so you can be manipulated by her. work on that. you gotta be strong, bro.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> You are correct- that's an issue. Rule of thumb if you need a question answered 100 times, she answers it 100 times. Barking back at you tells me she just wants to move on, your feelings be damned.
> 
> If I may ask what did she OD on? I can't imagine having 200 of any pills around, maybe Tylenol. And "all" that will do is mess up your liver.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



There was a large bottle of 200 extra strength Tylenol with a few missing she took all of them. A bottle of mydol I have no idea where it came from ,full box of heavy duty sleeping pills I just bought 19 pills I take a half and I'm knocked out for 10 hours and the hospital said there was few thousand milligrams of Benadryl in her to mixed up with some left over wine from our wedding. If I did not catch her that soon upstairs her liver would have been toasted. She had no real perminant damage they seen ,she texted me saying please don't let the kids upstairs in the morning. I was almost asleep crying upset from just finding out few hours before she screwed some guy when I got this text. I went upstairs and seen her all goofy looking and found suicide letter. So I called 911. 
She didn't really seem to care until I told her I called her mom and dad that's when she took the pills.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It might be fixable. But only if she takes ownership of her actions.

BTW - Have you ever gone into a fugue state before?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> I have extremely strong german genetics My kids looked exactly like my dad at birth and all my brothers and me. *Only way they are not mine is if she slept with one of them* lol


Uhhh... that happens.

Read Lone Shadow's thread.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Ah, so the suicide attempt was to manipulate her parents then.

Clearly she needs professional help. If I were you I would divorce and file for full custody. Your kids need to be priority 1 and 2.

Signing off for now- good luck Matt 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Because of the mental health of your wife I can not advise you the way I would handle it in the normal course

1.Ask for timeline
2.All details
3.Tell her you will check out all her details and if there is one untruth found you will D immediately (if you want to D you still can, lie)
4.D.N.A kids
5.If you feel confident enough see the guy with a friend who will stop it getting out of hand and ask him "was it just the 5 times you f**ked my wife (lie about the amount to see response)
6.Expose POSOM to his partner
7.Expose wife to all family
8.File fro D - you can stop the D at any time if she doesn't seem to be putting 110% effort into wanting you back
9.180 if you Want to continue D

BUT as your wife has already tried to commit suicide this may lead to another attempt


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Liver.

If you want, have her take Milk Thistle daily. It will help detox the liver.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

I made her do an std test and she texted her mommy after complaining Matt made me go for std test today she was expressing how pissed she was. She had unprotected sex with this parasite twice in one night .than the 3 weeks later when we did the phone call togather. She was so angry at me After because she was negative for everything. I absolutely snapped on her after this because it was super embarrassing I was even on the phone listening to my wife's std test to begin with. She was treating me as if she was in the wrong. Bpd or not she might look at things differently but reality is reality. If I screwed some chick with no condom on I would for damb sure do any text she wanted no fighting no questions asked. I had to blow a gasket just to get her to go to the effing clinic


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

When you say BPD are you talking about bi polar disease or borderline personality disorder? We see both here and there is a big difference.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> It might be fixable. But only if she takes ownership of her actions.
> 
> BTW - Have you ever gone into a fugue state before?


Not sure what fugue state would look like. What drugs I would have to take sounds like a good time about now lol. I've just read on Google what it was no I don't think I have. Only time I lost all control was when somebody attempted murder on me 12 years ago and when I went crazy recently after what my wife put me through. I had no control but I was still myself felt like a bad dream both times with little control over my body with huge burst of angry and adrenalen


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> You are correct- that's an issue. Rule of thumb if you need a question answered 100 times, she answers it 100 times. Barking back at you tells me she just wants to move on, your feelings be damned.
> 
> If I may ask what did she OD on? I can't imagine having 200 of any pills around, maybe Tylenol. And "all" that will do is mess up your liver.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Collecting large amounts of prescription medicines can be a sign of mental illness. Some people collect them so they can kill themselves.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

face it, you cannot control her actions any more than i control my W.

you can control what you do about it. if she manipulates you into staying with her - id say thats not right.

shes responsible for her actions. if you D and she does something stupid, its on her. if you stay and she does something stupid, its on her. if she goes to therapy and does something stupid, its on her. get it?

do whats right for you and the kids. she will do what she does.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Bpd- boarderline personality disorder 
Bp1 bi polar 1
Bp2 bi polar 2

The doctor thought she was bipolar 2. Hospital says she is bpd and narcissistic personality disorder. Along with ADHD


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

wow...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So what have you found out about borderline personality disorder and the long term outlook for that?

We've had several cases of that here.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

It's not curable. She doesn't know how to cope. Although she may look like she has amazing coping abilities they are actually self destructive acts. Like drinking which was her go to before. Her suicide attempt .her defecting the guilt onto me after she cheated as a way for her to shut out what she was going through seeing me crying upset ect. She simply made me the bad guy and shut out the pain. She wants to sweep under the rug and move on quicker than I am able to. She says I'm not able to cope and I'm just punishing her.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Do you guys think after 5 months I am still angry sometimes maybe 4-5 days a month ,I still feel need to talk about it sometime is a punishment to her ? She tells me I'm punishing her. It has been escalating into massive blowouts. She will not do much For me in this regard. Usually it just makes her angry than I snap


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't know why you are still in this relationship. The longer you stay in, the more complex it will be.

First, any physical violence you did was completely inexcusable, as was any of her cheating.

You both have issues (she probably has more/worse ones, but you have terrible anger issues) and you both need to fix yourselves. Maybe one or both of you can't be fixed, but it is a toxic situation to stay together as you both are.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Sorry, Matt. Maybe I missed it in your account, but why exactly are you staying with this woman? From your description she sounds totally unlovable. I'm seriously afraid that she's going to finally drive you to the point that you're going to do some real physical hurt to this lady. Neither of you are getting anything out of your current situation. Maybe it's time to run up the white flag, admit defeat, and just move on. Please be careful. If your lady is truly bipolar, she may not be able to control her own actions. Try to be gentle with her, if possible. I know sometimes I come off like Pollyana, but everyone deserves to be happy. If that's not possible in your marriage, then do each other and your children a favor, and end it.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

i don't want to get into any argument about physical violence it may offend some people some people are way to over sensitive ,it's ok for a women to hit a man but under no circumstances is it ok for a man to a women. After an event like this many people have gone onto a lot worse than what I did ,I loved my wife and family so much and to go through watching her in the hospital like that and all the other abuse and lies I am greatful I only dragged her around and screamed at her. When a man cheats he is a dog and all her friends and family say to leave him but when a women does it the relationship must have had problems or she was unhappy. I don't buy that crap. Lots of people get angry . Then there is the actual real piece of **** abusive men who are real pieces of garbage that many people like to get normal people mixed up with. I will defend this till the day I die. I probably should not have even been home had seen that trauma but somebody had to be with the kids. She apparently told me all the truth in the hospital and I gave her the opportunity to there. We got home and I found out extremely painful lies and truths after me being there by her side I should have just left her the minute I found out and she would be dead or have perminant liver damage. Than no place to go after she got released. Instead I did what any good husband would doand got screwed over. Call me abusive I don't give a crap. everybody has issues. I know I have angry outburst but there isn't one normal man or women that would not have freaked been in the state I was left in given the information I just discovered.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

years ago I was almost murderd. That is physical abuse. 

I can forgive my wife for most of it minus some of the lack of compassion towards my needs to speak of it , I'm still really pissed she shifted the whole guilt onto me made me the bad person and I gave her an opportunity my own stupid mistake but if she was truly sorry would she be doing that or was she just plain angry scared and mentally ill. We live togather it's been 5 months. About 1-2 a week I will ask a few things about it and it will escalate into a fight because I don't think she wants to lift a finger.shealready answered that or whatever she snarls back. I can't get past this stuff. It's where we get stuck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> There was a large bottle of 200 extra strength Tylenol with a few missing she took all of them. A bottle of mydol I have no idea where it came from ,full box of heavy duty sleeping pills I just bought 19 pills I take a half and I'm knocked out for 10 hours and the hospital said there was few thousand milligrams of Benadryl in her to mixed up with some left over wine from our wedding. If I did not catch her that soon upstairs her liver would have been toasted. She had no real perminant damage they seen ,*she texted me saying please don't let the kids upstairs in the morning*. I was almost asleep crying upset from just finding out few hours before she screwed some guy when I got this text. I went upstairs and seen her all goofy looking and found suicide letter. So I called 911.
> She didn't really seem to care until I told her I called her mom and dad that's when she took the pills.


this is the rest of your life?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> It's not curable. She doesn't know how to cope. Although she may look like she has amazing coping abilities they are actually self destructive acts. Like drinking which was her go to before. Her suicide attempt .her defecting the guilt onto me after she cheated as a way for her to shut out what she was going through seeing me crying upset ect. She simply made me the bad guy and shut out the pain. She wants to sweep under the rug and move on quicker than I am able to. She says I'm not able to cope and I'm just punishing her.





mattpf1 said:


> Do you guys think after 5 months I am still angry sometimes maybe 4-5 days a month ,I still feel need to talk about it sometime is a punishment to her ? She tells me I'm punishing her. It has been escalating into massive blowouts. She will not do much For me in this regard. Usually it just makes her angry than I snap





mattpf1 said:


> Bpd- boarderline personality disorder
> Bp1 bi polar 1
> Bp2 bi polar 2
> 
> The doctor thought she was bipolar 2. Hospital says she is bpd and narcissistic personality disorder. Along with ADHD





mattpf1 said:


> years ago I was almost murderd. That is physical abuse.
> 
> *I can forgive my wife* for most of it minus some of the lack of compassion towards my needs to speak of it , I'm still really pissed she shifted the whole guilt onto me made me the bad person and I gave her an opportunity my own stupid mistake but if she was truly sorry would she be doing that or was she just plain angry scared and mentally ill. We live togather it's been 5 months. About 1-2 a week I will ask a few things about it and it will escalate into a fight because I don't think she wants to lift a finger.shealready answered that or whatever she snarls back. I can't get past this stuff. It's where we get stuck.


did she even ask for it?


this sounds like a horrible relationship


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

I feel badly because the bpd she has I love her I want to be with her and my family it's my priority. But I am pissed at the situation now I'm forced to be in a marriage that has an affair attached to it. And it was only 8 weeks into our marriage. I worry a lot about leaving her I won't get full custody not in Canada anyways its a battle I won't even waste money on because I will loose. I do believe deep down she is a good person that did a bad thing but the person she was when I uncovered this and the person that comes out when she is stressed is a bad evil person that doesn't deserve forgiveness. That person comes out when she is not happy or stressed. In life there will be stress so I am stuck here again. She did work now she can't because of this the doctors don't think she's ready nor do I want her to because who knows if she's stressed or something.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

If i were you i would keep Roff the table until she accepts her guilt, if she doesn't and it happens again...and trust me, it will happen again....she need to face what she did...i would her that until that happens that you will engage with a lawyer to file for D...you need her to write down on paper and acknowledge EVERYTHING including taking a polygraph otherwise its D...you need to hold this over her head and see what happens.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

warlock07 said:


> did she even ask for it?
> 
> 
> this sounds like a horrible relationship


If I typed all the good in the relationship you would still be reading lol. I just typed the bad to get to the point. Of course it's not just this horrible. Yes she asked forgiveness but it's what's she's willing to do now for it which is bothering me. It's not a horrible relationship guys. She's very loving women. I'm a very loving husband. I just started with the bad parts didn't see point in typing 5 pages people would get bored reading it. She is real good until stressed. Only problem is I'm a horribly stressed and she caused it. Her bpd makes it so she has absolutely no coping abilities or she has never really developed real ones. She usually will never hit anything head on.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I'm American so can't speak to custody in Canada, but she seems really unfit? If this isn't a situation where the father gets full custody I don't know what is.

Male on female, female on male, domestic violence is domestic violence and it's wrong. Shouldn't be tolerated no matter who is the aggressor. I'm not going to label you an abuser given your situation but that said you need to control your anger around her. She knows how to push your buttons. And be especially careful around your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Stop looking at her through rose colored glasses. She is no misunderstood princess but she is neither the daughter of Lucifer. She is a human being. A broken human being. But so are you because you seem to have co-dependency issues that prevent you from acting in a constructive fashion.

A two month newlywed bride giving herself body and soul to another man. Like it or not, your marriage is a sham because of your wife's behavior. If you choose to remain married to her and she stabs you in the back again, it will all be on you. You have been warned.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

I know what I did was abusive. No doubt about it. I take full resposibility for it and did. mentally the state I was in was questionable I was not well I did check myself into urgent mental care shorty after that happened and spent few nights in hospital myself. If I did not see and go through all that trauma I don't think I would have had a problem controlling myself. I was in a black out state almost I had a few beers on the deck was relaxing than the idea of calling my wife affair buddie became a good idea. That's how I found out she was still lying I was having a good night relaxing but instantly that turned.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> Stop looking at her through rose colored glasses. She is no misunderstood princess but she is neither the daughter of Lucifer. She is a human being. A broken human being. But so are you because you seem to have co-dependency issues that prevent you from acting in a constructive fashion.
> 
> A two month newlywed bride giving herself body and soul to another man. Like it or not, your marriage is a sham because of your wife's behavior. If you choose to remain married to her and she stabs you in the back again, it will all be on you. You have been warned.


Being togather for 7 years before doesn't change your mind at all


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

We never seen each other worked opposite schedules and were not connected when it happened. If I were in her situation at that time I can't say I wouldn't have cheated or not I don't know I'm very loyal I know that and if I did I would have treated her a lot better if I was trying to reconcile. But again maybe I forced it on her maybe she didn't want to be with me and that's why she did it. We were not happy we fought lots but I loved her a lot still than and was very comfortable on content. 

The thought crosses my mind all the time maybe I forced her to stay. I was instantly there for her in the hospital. I never gave her a chance to say no. I scared the guy away police were involved later (that's a different story)


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

It was hard to have a relationship when I never seen my wife. She worked till 2am. I would see her sleeping when I woke up at 6 am everyday. The only day we would get was Sunday and she would usually sleep all day to catch up. It was difficult for her to meet my needs and me to meet hers. But we were doing it for money and that's what I though she was doing it for. She starting going out drinking a lot after work it bothered me and I was miserable after we got married it got worse. I was unhappy with her so she cheated on me. I was miserable and let her know it willing I was not scared to tell her . It just pisses me off that was her way of dealing with our small relationship problem. She could have came home we could have worked it out reduced her shifts fixed our problem real easy. Instead her solution was to get drunk and have sex with a guy in the back of a car than go back to his house after for more sex. She was cheating with some parasite that would always hit on all the waitresses in her pub. Her boss and friend were also in the car with her screwing each other cheating on there families. It was like a cheating orgy except the guy my wife was with was some ugly drunk .Her friend wife and 3 daughters husband at home ,boss 2 kids wife at home. My wife 2 kids . Lots of devastation that night occurred her friends played role i influencing her. She was also very drunk


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Bpd , relationship problem, bad influence and alcohol problem are the root issues of this. She cut all contact to that group. Not willingly at first. I forced all of them to stay away.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

OMG will you stop taking the blame for her, dear god she has really messed with your head, that or you must think that because her IQ is higher she is right and you must be wrong. Will you please be a man and step up to the plate and take control of this situation. otherwise you might as well go down to your local hardware store and buy a doormat and wear it.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

If they were having sex in front of each other then took it back to his house my guess is it may have gone to swopping etc
no wonder she freaked


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

You are co-dependent, get professional help ASAP.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Why the **** are you still with her??


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Having been there and done that...maybe the reason I'm still alive is cuz of this thread!

Any way my 1st seven yrs of M were phucked up. It's then my old lady started screwing around and I started slapping her around. That shyt went on for 13 yrs.

So...back in '98 I knew my old lady was scvrewing around and we did a half @ss attempt to fix our shyt.....but after 5 yrs of going straight she was back at it.

Now to the point.....It was 2010 when I finaly had enough of a crappy life and owned my crap. It was then my old lady realized it wasn't me...it was *also* her!

I don't think your old lady is there yet.

Give it a few yrs ( in my case 5yrs) and your chick will be back at it with a new job, a new group of toxic friends, and a new phuck buddy.

Granted...God bless your wife for trying in the next few yrs...but at the end of the day it was all your fault she did what she did and hasn't learned a phucking thing this time around!

I hope I am wrong...I usually am.


I wish I had some great advice in avoiding this...but it really is up to your old lady how she is going to behave when you are around and when you are *not*!

It really is up to your old lady in what choices she makes in the future in affair proofing the marriage.

I know for a fact that no matter how shyty things get I...me...will never hit her again...that is something I can control.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

G.J. said:


> If they were having sex in front of each other then took it back to his house my guess is it may have gone to swopping etc
> no wonder she freaked


No shyt!
That is one hell of a walk of shame.
It's sad she was used so bad by her coworkers and OM that she wanted to die.

Again, I hope I'm sooooo dam wrong and OP doesn't have to deal with what I experienced.

Maybe his WW learned a life changing lesson...a horrible lesson that will in fact affair proof their marriage to the end of time.
On the other side of the coin OP's WW could go even darker due to her lack of self worth and self esteem?

That may have happened to my old lady...naaa she just liked to phuck!

I think in a case like this both have a lot of heavy lifting to do to heal.


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## Xenote2 (Feb 26, 2015)

Please a newer these questions:
1. Has she done any counselling?
2. Have you gone to couples counselling
3. Since this happened has she been drinking to cope?
4. Is she getting help for her BPD?
5. Is she currently on any prescriptions to help cope?
6. Do you think she is fit to raise children?
7. Has she showed any alarming behaviours?
8. Has she made herself an open book?
9. Was there anything after the wedding that may have pushed her away or caused her BPD to think you don't love her. 

Having borderline is a serious issue and you aren't obligated to be with her through this. If you truly want to forgive her and move forward you need to make yourself aware of her BPD sensitivities and insecurities. It sounds like both of you are going tot need help to make it through this. You either need to unite or call it a lost cause.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

mattpf1 said:


> Bpd- boarderline personality disorder
> Bp1 bi polar 1
> Bp2 bi polar 2
> 
> The doctor thought she was bipolar 2. Hospital says she is bpd and narcissistic personality disorder. Along with ADHD


 This all may be true but she has one more disorder and it's called GYBTB disorder Got You By The Balls disorder and true to form your letting her. 

Look friend there's no doubt she way smarter than you because she's way more deceitful and your letting her. 

There comes a point in time when you got to stop being the patsy and refuse to take any more blame for her ignorance because she's already got you believing that this whole mess is your fault. Time to put it her lap and for her to do the lifting.

Time to throw caution in the wind and let her know that her days of pointing fingers and blaming everyone but her self is over. Let her know that she's the one who cheated and if she wants this marriage to work then she better start doing the hard work and prove she wants it and I would also let her know that if she wants to play that pill eating card again, then it's on her head and if she survives she's going to be alone because you'll make sure that the courts know that she's unstable and shouldn't be around the kids unless it's supervised and so far she's doing it for you so wise up and take the bull by the horns or she'll run you down like road kill.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

codependents are the only ones attracted to narcissists. or tolerate them.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

being in a relationship with a BPDer is hell. You think day to day is bad? - try breaking up with one. 

This will turn out poorly for you. She sees you as completely expendable and will have no qualms about trying to destroy you. 

Shrink 4 Men – for men who are recovering from relationships with abusive women and the non-abusive family and friends who love them


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> We have made a lot of progress intensity is down frequency is down maybe I have one blowout per week. I still think about a few things like her telling me she enjoyed cheating on me and that she shifted the guilt and tried to make me look like the bad guy. But besides the hurt I have Been getting better she has too but what really does she have to get better from all the bull**** we are going through she caused. I would just like to know if it's normal after 4-5 months to still be angry sometimes and have a blowout or fight a few times a month


What are the blowouts/fights like? 

4-5 months is barely a drop in the bucket. It takes 2-5 years for the BS (betrayed spouse) to recover from infidelity. You have a long way to go still.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

i think she is keeping what actually happened that night a dark secret. shes done what she can to prevent you learning the truth.

bail now or suffer the rest of your days.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> Her mental illness will set her over edge. I bet she would commit suicide. That's what I'm scared of. I'm scared to go back to work because if I text her when I'm upset stressed she freaks out and cannot cope. Her way of coping was trying to slit her wrist the first time. Than I actually found out what happened called her mom and dad and than she mixed about 200 random pills into wine and made a lethal ****tail and went into an overdose state for 10 hour or longer.


What are you doing to get support for yourself?

Are you in individual counseling? You need to be. 

You might need antidepressants after all of this.

If you leave her, she will have your children unsupervised for a good part of the time. You need all the help you can get.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Xenote2 said:


> Please a newer these questions:
> 1. Has she done any counselling?
> 2. Have you gone to couples counselling
> 3. Since this happened has she been drinking to cope?
> ...


1. Yes she has done counselling 
2.yes lots of couples cousilling. Infact I hired the best infidelity specailist I could find in my city. It's expensive we have done about 10 sessions. 
3.no alcohol was a boundary set by me and she did not break it yet. She has been good at not drinking she is aware now. 
4.she just got through the system it took 2 months now she sees psyciatrist weekly but she says she is not opening up to them and hitting the issues she has face on. She was abandoned by her father at young age her mother has children with different men and she was raised by a man that was not her father that she said treated her mean when she was small. She has shown resentment to men always. This all stems from daddy issues I think. That's common for BPD 
5.she had a major mess up with prescriptions ,she was on them than stopped than started on natural stuff without supervision from Dr. I put a quick end to that and said a condition for me staying was she needs to be back on Meds. She is back on Meds antidepressents for now it's only been about 25 days now next visit to Dr I think she will get mood stabilizers and dose increased possibly. 
6.she is a real good mother besides this 
7. Everything alarms me now so it's hard to answer this. 
8.she quit that job ditched toxic parasite friends ,changed phone numbers and I do have access to all her person messages and I do read them. When we fight she does send her mom and friend things and deletes them when she is venting. 
9. Yes but it was created by her self. She would not make time for us opposite work schedules were real hard on relationship. We were not connected I let her now of how pissed I was getting we fought frequently but it was mostly because she would get off early and get drunk Instead of coming home to have sex with me and love me. All I wanted was sex and I'm happy she neglected me I was unhappy I let her know I was not nice to her but she was not committed to us she was even bringing police home drinking and driving on one occasion and the police helicopter she was so drunk and got reported driving home. I was furious and at times treated her the way she made me feel. She was doing what she wanted and I got upset so she cheated on me . A simple problem turned into a huge one. 


I'm aware of the BPD it's really hard to deal with ,I am upset she cannot even handle stress about this. She copes by turning it off and deflecting or downplaying what happened or how hurt I should be ect. If I mention something sometimes I'm punishing her that's one method she uses to cope which is toxic and selfish. Another is the guilt shift she will blame me for things I did before the marriage years ago ect that are irrelevant to the situation maybe to make her not feel so bad about it.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Q tip said:


> codependents are the only ones attracted to narcissists. or tolerate them.


Is this relevant. Most people can be labeled codependent after affair especially after a decade long with two kids and life built togather. I would seriously challenge any persons mental wellbeing if they were able to just simply walk and not be "co dependent" after almost a decade long relationship. A lot of that psyciatrist stuff online us normal folks don't understand. Every person on this forum has traits of BPD but doesn't make them BPD. You need to know what your doing if your a psyciatrist I am very sorry but I don't think you are. And if you are please chime in more.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> What are you doing to get support for yourself?
> 
> Are you in individual counseling? You need to be.
> 
> ...



I've got lots of counselling before and after this. I've lived a pretty troubled life. I was already on antidepressents before this happened. But I have switched to a very mild one I want to start weaning myself off pills. Will before pill. I have major problems with sleep though and ptsd bad dreams and stuff like that. I have seen her looking like the girl from the exorcist foaming puking peeing herself overdosed with 4 Iv hooked up to her. It was very traumatic sight that night. I am getting better but I have irritation and depression that swings like a roller coaster. Some times I cry for no reason. Sometimes it feels like all my past was also added on top of this smacked right back in my face. And I also think about how hard I worked for our wedding and for her to cheat 2 months after it is a slap in the face. I did say to her we should not have got married after we did but that was because she was running around drinking like an idiot doing whatever she wants. I also got her a nice mercedes e550 as wedding gift. It was important to her until about the second day she drank and hit a curb .this was after I said no more drinking and driving after work but she did not listen not even after the cops followed her home that night. It was a path of destruction from before our wedding about when she made this new group of toxic friends .she returned to work January 2014 from maternity leave and was out of control by end of February .i did not even want her to go back to work there but her mat leve was up and extra money was nice. Obviously she doesn't care so now she is at home with no job and not capable or educated for a professional job. I would prefer her to stay home and raise our amazing daughter anyways but I worry about spousal support if we split up than?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> Is this relevant. Most people can be labeled dependent after affair especially after a decade long with two kids and life built togather. I would seriously challenge any persons mental wellbeing if they were able to just simply walk and not be "co dependent" after almost a decade long relationship. A lot of that psyciatrist stuff online us normal folks don't understand. Every person on this forum has traits of BPD but doesn't make them BPD. You need to know what your doing if your a psyciatrist I am very sorry but I don't think you are. And if you are please chime in more.


co-dependent vs dependent

There is a different.

Co-dependent is when a person puts the needs of someone else above their own to their own detriment. It's a normal reaction to a bad situation. It's easy for anyone who cares for someone else to slip into.

I feel for you because you have quite a struggle. Dealing with this is very hard. I surely do not have the answers. I also would not leave my children solely in her care. It's quite a catch 22.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Q tip said:


> i think she is keeping what actually happened that night a dark secret. shes done what she can to prevent you learning the truth.
> 
> bail now or suffer the rest of your days.


Actually I found out with phone records and a phone call to this guy. He later called the cops on me but did tell me some stuff. This is how I found out he was the one who said sorry yes we did it. Than she was cornered. But I don't know if he told me everything or not. He is a very ugly guy very unthreating ,I am good looking I am good provider and I love having sex and very good at it and could easily replace her if I wanted ,she is not sexual never really has been. 

So She is willing to sign a post marital agreement basically putting her half on the line than doing a polygraph if she fails we divorce she gets nothing. That is a higher level of commitment to me .polygraph is $500 post numb is $3000. Or I fight with her potentially loose half to a parasite that doesn't desreve half of what i have built. She was not working hard at work and at home. I was she doesn't deserve half. She may be bluffing though


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Why would anybody suggest I need help if I had enough courage and kindness to put her needs above mine. Codependent would not be a flaw in my eyes that needs help. I think the person who sees it as a flaw needs help. She effed up badly She has BPD we been togather almost a decade . I set boundaries in which took her 3-4 months to finally agree and come to terms with but now she seems content. 

But I don't trust her outside the house in any situation that poses a threat to us. No drinking no late night social events ect. I am a firm believer in removing the temptation all togather. Willpower has failed us


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

From *Co-Dependency*



> *Questionnaire To Identify Signs Of Co-dependency*
> 
> This condition appears to run in different degrees, whereby the intensity of symptoms are on a spectrum of severity, as opposed to an all or nothing scale. Please note that only a qualified professional can make a diagnosis of co-dependency; not everyone experiencing these symptoms suffers from co-dependency.
> 
> ...


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

She needs to start doing some heavy lifting as another member mentioned. And she needs to do whatever it takes to Make me feel better and not worry about anything else but her family. She needs to get better and stay home with her family. I will not tolerate her out with toxic friends anymore . She still has some bad advice coming in but I don't fully believe those friends are toxic. I have no problem removing toxic people from my wifes life. She may think I'm being controlling but I don't tolerate bull**** anymore.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

You will not tolerate if she breaks your boundaries but what consequences does she face if she does?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> If I typed all the good in the relationship you would still be reading lol. I just typed the bad to get to the point. Of course it's not just this horrible. Yes she asked forgiveness but it's what's she's willing to do now for it which is bothering me. It's not a horrible relationship guys. She's very loving women. I'm a very loving husband. I just started with the bad parts didn't see point in typing 5 pages people would get bored reading it. She is real good until stressed. Only problem is I'm a horribly stressed and she caused it. Her bpd makes it so she has absolutely no coping abilities or she has never really developed real ones. She usually will never hit anything head on.


I think you are uninformed about most of the stuff that is happening in your life. You have the best of intentions but it is like you are cutting meat with a bluntstone. You are barely scraping on the surface of the problems and trying to bulldoze through the issues with (what you think is )sheer love for your wife and family.

You do not seem to understand mental illness and how they work in general. You probably do not have a proper view of a good marriage and relationship. You are talking like one of those women who still go back to their physically abusive husbands saying that he only hit her because he cared enough...

I can see a disaster but there is nothing I can say that will get into your head. Ask honestly if you are looking for answers or validation.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> Why would anybody suggest I need help if I had enough courage and kindness to put her needs above mine. Codependent would not be a flaw in my eyes that needs help. I think the person who sees it as a flaw needs help. She effed up badly She has BPD we been togather almost a decade . I set boundaries in which took her 3-4 months to finally agree and come to terms with but now she seems content.
> 
> But I don't trust her outside the house in any situation that poses a threat to us. No drinking no late night social events ect. I am a firm believer in removing the temptation all togather. Willpower has failed us




:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

So what do you suggest. I give up half of my life's earnings to her ,let her take the kids ages 2 and 6 just give up on everything because she cheated. I love my family she is part of that. I hate the situation I'm forced to be in . I'm upset angry all sorts of things about it go through me at any given time. I'm just so effed up myself. I don't know how we will be in the future but who does. I have an idea that I will be pretty pissed for quite some time. She has given a partial effort at best is the bottom line though. She doesn't know what to do. Should I punish her for that ?


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

She did not treat me good at all after me discovering it ,she still doesn't really and is quick to fight about it and throw my flaws in my face. Is she a good person that did a bad thing ? she is scared and has crappy support from her family and friends. Best thing she has going in her life is me and the kids. I am old school I dont believe in divorce the way it is now these days relationships and marriage have been mixed togather and now people treat marriages like high school relationships. It's real easy for anybody to say I'd leave her or him if they did this until it actually happens to them. Do I have a lot of faith right now in us ? Take a guess what do you think landed me here. Looking for support but there seems to be a lot of jaded people. Will I be happy with out her NO. Will I be happy with her ? Not with what she has dealt us no but I do truly love her and will always. I have not made this anymore easy for her. I am no peach ,iam not happy I let her know and I have been real hard on her . So some of these problems I may have very well helped create.


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## dtc37 (Nov 18, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> Best thing she has going in her life is me and the kids. I am old school I dont believe in divorce the way it is now these days relationships and marriage have been mixed togather and now people treat marriages like high school relationships.


The reality of the matter is right there. You're old school while your wife is "new"school you both have different values. You want a codependent quaint little life. While she goes and gets banged by bartenders. And here's the crazy part SHE IS BLAMING YOU!! And trying to make you feel guilty by seeking attention. Stop giving her the glory. Shut her spotlight off. I don't care what type of mental "disorders" she has. She will do this again and again. File for divorce. Or at least separate for a while not weeks. Months. Revisit some of the things you like to do Get your life back. Your real life Your kids will always be your kids. No mater what happens. Trust me if you really want her to change. separate. You will see how quickly things start going your way when you live your own life.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Matt, I'm going to address some of your points you made overnight. This may be a bit of a hodge podge.

You have been put in a really crappy situation. I feel for you. We all do. I know next to nothing about mental disorders. I don't know if she will get better, worse, or status quo. Folks here are advocating divorce not because we are jaded, but because she has treated you terribly, in many ways. you have a lot of time together. We get that. She is sick. We get that. What you need to understand is you are not obligated to conitinue to put yourself and your kids well being in jeopardy just because you love her. I think you love the idea of who she used to be. You aren't ever going to see that person again. You certainly won't ever trust her again. Do not sentence yourself and your kids to a life with her.

Financially, you may take a hit. Sure. Not sure about the laws in Canada but you havent been married that long. If I were in your shoes I would trade every dime if it meant stability and peace of mind for my kids and myself. And frankly, again I'm not Canadian, can't see any judge awarding her custody after a suicide attempt with two young kids in the house under her care. Finally you can and will be happy with someone else you just don't know it yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dtc37 (Nov 18, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Matt, I'm going to address some of your points you made overnight. This may be a bit of a hodge podge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nicely put.. Exactly what I was trying to say. Sorry for the lack of compassion Matt. I'm used to tough love lol


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## NosborCrop (Feb 25, 2015)

BPD? Run like wind man =/


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

From Mattpf1

i don't want to get into any argument about physical violence it may offend some people some people are way to over sensitive ,it's ok for a women to hit a man but under no circumstances is it ok for a man to a women.


****** I agree that there is a double standard and it exists in the courts too. In Domestic Violence courts, there is discrimination against men. I get why you did what you did, though wrong, you snapped. Many guys would snap after being what you went through. However, dealing with what you are, anger management may still be good for you for yourself and your own benefit.

Mattpf1: After an event like this many people have gone onto a lot worse than what I did ,I loved my wife and family so much and to go through watching her in the hospital like that and all the other abuse and lies I am greatful I only dragged her around and screamed at her. When a man cheats he is a dog and all her friends and family say to leave him but when a women does it the relationship must have had problems or she was unhappy. 


****** I agree with you here. And I see it among some of the posters on this board. Cheating is cheating and wrong is wrong and those who look at it through gender colored glasses have major issues IMO. BTW, I also consider cheating 'emotional abuse' so if you get the line thrown in your face, you were abused too.


******* Just whatever you do, protect yourself and make a decision asap and ahve a plan but don't let it get you in trouble


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Q tip said:


> if shes not a crying, snot bubbling pile of human stain on the ground before you, totally remorseful and begging for a real chance - you'll know what to do. better free of her than a lifetime of this.


She is a borderline! You will never get this from her. Or if you do, an hour later you are the one to blame and she is the victim again. That is what they do.

In her mind, the fact that you both were not connecting, and that she wasn't getting any attention from you (FOR WHATEVER REASON) means that you didn't love her anymore.

There is no easy answer Matt. I don't think you are going to get 100% of what you need to get over this anytime soon, if ever. You will get small pieces here and there. It isn't that she won't want to do it for you. She can't. The disorder won't allow it. It would require too much self examination and her self esteem is already $hit. 

If, knowing that, you decide to stay with her, you are going to have to establish firm boundaries with consequences. You cannot go off on her any more, can't blow up, can't rage. She will immediately get defensive and things will escalate. You have to remain calm.

Have you been reading any books on BPD?


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

As you have no intention of Divorcing your wife at the present take the information advised by the posters that will help you formulate a plan of action so you can at least have a clear aim in the short term.
Priority for me would be

1.Establish *what constitutes enough remorse *or contrition from your wife that will *allow you* to move forward

2.People have suggested anger management BUT everything you have posted doesn't sound like you have an under lying anger problem only a fight reflex that most Alpha males have but in present day society will always be frowned upon SO if you have anger management it *may/could* be used against you in future if you get divorced by your wife.
As I have not looked into this, may be some one who knows could clarify if this is the case

3.See a lawyer and inform of all the facts and get understanding that if your marriage ends in D what are the details of the eventual outcome likely to be and would her condition count against her in any way

4.Record all details she does from now in a journal substantiated by proof where possible

5.You say she gets bad advice from people currently that needs cutting NOW

6.You must understand looking and checking her every day will be a lifetimes work unless she comes to understand the pain and anguish she has caused as currently she is blame shifting onto you so will never come to realize what she has done

7.You must start to become more independent with your thoughts and put your self first
Read literature suggested on this site or by posters

You have such an uphill struggle I feel for you

If you haven't already start going to the Gym and refocus a little on your body as funny as this sounds when the chemicals you produce kick in you steadily feel your body strengthen and your mind will follow


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

G.J. said:


> As you have no intention of Divorcing your wife at the present take the information advised by the posters that will help you formulate a plan of action so you can at least have a clear aim in the short term.
> Priority for me would be
> 
> 1.Establish *what constitutes enough remorse *or contrition from your wife that will *allow you* to move forward
> ...


Like this a lot. :iagree:

Take your anger out at the gym. 

Leave the boxing gloves there and take the velvet gloves home. With her, you just have to keep asking nicely for what you need.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"He later called the cops on me but did tell me some stuff."

Typical cowardly POSOM.

"Officer, officer...please help....I f*cked this guy's W and now I'm scared he's gonna want some payback."

Situations like these are the number one reason I could never be a cop.

sorry for the t/j

Matt,

Reread Tunera's post on the difference between dependency (ie loving support) and co-dependency in a relationship.

There is a major difference....and co-dependency not only destroys you, it enables your WW to continue the destructive behaviors that ultimately severely damage her as well.

My grandmother did this for years with my aunt's drug addiction....would do ANYTHING to prevent the full consequences of her addiction falling on her.

My aunt, who is now clean after my grandmother's passing, has told me that a major reason she never quit during her 30 years of using is because she knew that my grandmother would always be there to save her when the sh*t hit the fan...she said she is lucky that she survived at all since she had zero incentive to stop.

This is part of the damage of co-dependency as well....you will not be doing any favor to your WW by not showing her tough love and real consequences, even to the point of ending the M if she doesn't fix her damaging behaviors.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

mattpf1 said:


> Do you guys think after 5 months I am still angry sometimes maybe 4-5 days a month ,I still feel need to talk about it sometime is a punishment to her ? She tells me I'm punishing her. It has been escalating into massive blowouts. She will not do much For me in this regard. Usually it just makes her angry than I snap


Honestly... maybe it is. Obviously you don't have to forgive her, that's your choice, but the relationship is ultimately doomed if you can't find a way to forgive her. To clarify, that doesn't mean you have to forget about it, or pay extra attention to the possibility of a repeat offense, but it does mean you need to forgive her for the pain debt she has created in you. 

Think of it in financial terms. She hurt you enormously, lets equate that to stealing $100 from you. Effectively she owes you that money. You can choose to give reconciliation a chance, but you ultimately have to forgive her of that debt, deciding that she doesn't owe you that anymore, so there is no reason for bringing it up again at all. With that said, you can still be cautious. It's ok to keep your money a bit more secure, check to make sure it's still there more frequently, that sort of thing, but the debt needs to be forgiven. The alternative is that you keep bringing it up repeatedly for a long stretch of time even after all the relevant facts have come out. Those become like little barbs towards her, inflicting pain on her each time, effectively trying to get that pain debt repaid another way, all the while making both of you miserable, angry, violated, and creating an environment that is nearly impossible for trust and intimacy to be rebuilt. That's like repeatedly stealing $1 here, $2 there from her for months or years to get the debt paid back.

So everyone heals from this kind of betrayal at a different pace, maybe you need five months, but my question to you would be are you really trying to reach a point of forgiveness with her? Are you trying to get to a point where you can declare that she owes you nothing now as a result of those actions? If you are, then it's not punishment. If you aren't however, then yeah I'd say you might be subconsciously punishing her.



mattpf1 said:


> Has she opened up her life to you, is fully honest and hides nothing?
> 8. She quit that job ditched toxic parasite friends ,changed phone numbers and I do have access to all her person messages and I do read them. When we fight she does send her mom and friend things and deletes them when she is venting.


This underlined part is completely unacceptable. Part of the "Open life, no right to privacy" boundaries should be "Absolutely no deleting messages or logs of any kind for any reason whatsover." It's good that she took the other steps you described, but deleting messages is absolutely without question deceitful. (I'm not saying kick her out of the house for this or anything extreme, but you should make sure she understands this rule)


mattpf1 said:


> He is a very ugly guy very unthreating ,I am good looking I am good provider and I love having sex and very good at it and could easily replace her if I wanted ,she is not sexual never really has been.


I've got to comment on this part... It sounds like your wife faces issues with depression, self doubt, poor self esteem, etc. I'm not sure if you've said this, but I'm guessing she often feels like she isn't worthy of you or that you deserve better, maybe she feels like she can't possibly make you happy, and she obviously knew that there was a problem with the marriage because you had made that clear to her. For a woman in this situation, I believe it makes perfect sense why she would be tempted by another man who, if we're trying to be objective, would "rank" far lower than you might on the "Quality Potential Mate" scale, or something similar.

My wife did the same thing. I'm really not trying to boast or say that I'm a perfect guy by any stretch, but I work hard, I'm not overweight, full head of hair, average height, make decent money, don't cheat/smoke/drink/gamble/abuse, etc. My wife ended up in an affair with a man who is/was: Twice her age, bald, short (5'7"), had an $8 per hour job/25 year old car/two roommates in a small apartment, divorced twice with zero custody of his kids, two of whom were older than her and a lengthy history of going after very young women. (He later went to prison for sexually pursuing a 13 y/o girl for nine months before he was caught)

My wife is an attractive woman, maybe your wife is too, so why would she/they connect with men like these when surely they could have found far more appealing men without much effort? In a word, while these men certainly wouldn't be desirable from most any woman's perspective, they were "safe." Because this guy would likely never be "better than her," she would never need to worry about feeling inferior to him, not worthy of him, like she could fail him, etc. He would realize how insanely lucky he is to have her, knowing that she was way out of his league, and thus would probably do whatever he could to hold on to her. So he was safe. With a more desireable man, she might have to face the same concerns/fears she had with me (depression, feelings of inferiority/failing me/unattractive/etc. Holding on to a guy like him, for her, would be easy and she knew it.

Could you imagine something like that being the case with your wife? I know you obviously hate the other man, and likely view him in a far more negative light than the average person might due to your (very understandable) bias, but the way you describe him as ugly and all, made me wondering if there is a similar situation here?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> Is this relevant. Most people can be labeled codependent after affair especially after a decade long with two kids and life built togather. I would seriously challenge any persons mental wellbeing if they were able to just simply walk and not be "co dependent" after almost a decade long relationship. A lot of that psyciatrist stuff online us normal folks don't understand. Every person on this forum has traits of BPD but doesn't make them BPD. You need to know what your doing if your a psyciatrist I am very sorry but I don't think you are. And if you are please chime in more.


chime in, chime in

...chime out all the best. please be happy with those opinions you wanna hear.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

If your adamant about staying married for your kids and because you love her, you're going to have to develop an emotional detachment level where anything hurtful word towards you will bounce off you, where if she cheats again you won't be angry or hurt, and where if she chooses to divorce you years from now, you won't mind paying up to 30% of your income for spousal support for an indefinite number of years. Do you think you can do this? If you can then more power to you, but if you have serious doubts that you can and get screwed, then you have nobody to blame for your choices but you.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

mattpf1 said:


> She did not treat me good at all after me discovering it ,she still doesn't really and is quick to fight about it and throw my flaws in my face. Is she a good person that did a bad thing ? she is scared and has crappy support from her family and friends. Best thing she has going in her life is me and the kids. I am old school I dont believe in divorce the way it is now these days relationships and marriage have been mixed togather and now people treat marriages like high school relationships. It's real easy for anybody to say I'd leave her or him if they did this until it actually happens to them. Do I have a lot of faith right now in us ? Take a guess what do you think landed me here. Looking for support but there seems to be a lot of jaded people. Will I be happy with out her NO. Will I be happy with her ? Not with what she has dealt us no but I do truly love her and will always. I have not made this anymore easy for her. I am no peach ,iam not happy I let her know and I have been real hard on her . So some of these problems I may have very well helped create.


A bit baffled why you keep bringing up her negatives traits then berate people and call them jaded when they tell you to D?

Solution: Stay with her and work things out. There! Thread sorted and thank you.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Well thanks for advice. It does seem like a lot of people on here have had real bad experiences. There is a lot of good advice given. yes it is true one minute or day she will be sorry and the next she will be victim again and I will be the bad guy. This Is a very hard part to get past. It's plauged us for years and been brought to light through all this. I just don't know how to deal with it. Maybe kill her with love?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Stay consistant.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

cdbaker said:


> Honestly... maybe it is. Obviously you don't have to forgive her, that's your choice, but the relationship is ultimately doomed if you can't find a way to forgive her. To clarify, that doesn't mean you have to forget about it, or pay extra attention to the possibility of a repeat offense, but it does mean you need to forgive her for the pain debt she has created in you.
> 
> Think of it in financial terms. She hurt you enormously, lets equate that to stealing $100 from you. Effectively she owes you that money. You can choose to give reconciliation a chance, but you ultimately have to forgive her of that debt, deciding that she doesn't owe you that anymore, so there is no reason for bringing it up again at all. With that said, you can still be cautious. It's ok to keep your money a bit more secure, check to make sure it's still there more frequently, that sort of thing, but the debt needs to be forgiven. The alternative is that you keep bringing it up repeatedly for a long stretch of time even after all the relevant facts have come out. Those become like little barbs towards her, inflicting pain on her each time, effectively trying to get that pain debt repaid another way, all the while making both of you miserable, angry, violated, and creating an environment that is nearly impossible for trust and intimacy to be rebuilt. That's like repeatedly stealing $1 here, $2 there from her for months or years to get the debt paid back.
> 
> ...



Yes it may have been a similar situation. She did once tell me she is better than him and I am better than her. But it was a short affair. Two weeks of texts and one night of sexual acts that was admitted. I know there is hurtful details she won't ever tell me I am still a bit stuck at the wanting information part but I can move forward I think pretty easily. I never wanted her to feel like she is better than any body or that I am better than her. I did correct her instantly when she said that I am not better than her. We are both attractive people. Some of it still seems like it doesn't add up because everything I know I found out myself and that apparently is all there is to the story she says she is clean. So I know she is either the biggest liar or the worst cheater ever because the first night she goes out cheating my friend catches her and I become the best detective and some how im able to find out absolutely everything. I am still stuck here hopefully she sees why it's taking me so long it's very hard to believe I did infact find everything out. There was nothing she told me I didn't find out that's what made this suck so bad.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your old lady is all over the place...you may friend need to show her you are confident in what ever you do...chicks dig confident guys....so please be consistent in commanding respect.

If your going to kill her with love, then you better find out what her idea of love is and it might not be something you can compete with?

At the end of the day...she is the one that phucked up...not once but twice by trying to off her self and leaving thoser two kids with out a mom!

Sorry bro your old lady has issues she needs to face. You have no control of that. Alls you can do is be the best you can be for your self and see if your old lady wants to come along for the ride and reap the rewards as you work on being a better you for you and your kids.

You need to look ahead and if your old lady wants to join you great...but you are doing the heavy lifting to be a better you ..its up to her to keep up or not....again she has her own issues she needs to own.

Don't let her hold you back in being the father and the man you want to be!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you think there is more and you think you don't know everything....you are screwe...it will be hard to get past this with your old lady.

In my case I had enough and things added up and I truly understood what I was up against and who my old lady had become.

If you continue to have doubts ( about her story/details) and you aren't sure *what* you are forgiving her for then you guys are toast IMHO.

Until you can except that she has truly come clean then you have something to work with.

Have you asked to take a polygraph?
Throw that at her and see if she gets pissed or is she willing to put her money were her mouth is?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Has your old lady given you a "hall pass"?

i ask cuz some chicks will face any and all consequences .....the ones that are selfish little bytches will never give up letting the man they hurt in the worst way go down that road.

Not saying you would do it, but has she offered?

I was never going down that road ..hell Mrs. the-guy would use it against me!
My point is .....does your old lady have that degree of submission to even make that kind of offer?

At the very least, let you bend her over the work bench in the basement and spanke her @ss red.....

Ya I'm wired different the most.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

mattpf1 said:


> One minute or day she will be sorry and the next she will be victim again and I will be the bad guy.... I just don't know how to deal with it. Maybe kill her with love?


With BPDers, Matt, it is impossible to love the problem away. No matter how much love you give her, you are always in a lose/lose position. The primary reason for this conundrum is that a BPDer's two fears lie at the opposite ends of the _very same_ spectrum. 

This means that, as you move close to her to assure her of your love and devotion, you will trigger her engulfment fear -- making her feel suffocated and controlled by you. That's when she will start projecting that scary feeling onto you, with the result that -- at a conscious level -- she will be convinced YOU are the source of the scary feelings.

Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will be drawing close to triggering her abandonment fear. The result will be the push-you-away (when she feels engulfed) and pull-you-back (when she feels abandoned) that you are describing.

Like you, Matt, I was married to a BPDer woman -- for 15 years in my case. My experience is that such relationships generally get worse over the years and eventually end at 12 to 15 years, at which time the BPDer walks out. As the years go by, her fear of abandonment keeps growing as she sees her body aging. At the same time, she becomes increasingly resentful of her husband's inability to make her happy (an impossible task).

If you would like to read more about my experiences with a BPDer, I suggest you take a look at my list of red flags at _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_ -- and my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Matt.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Matt, I'm going to address some of your points you made overnight. This may be a bit of a hodge podge.
> 
> You have been put in a really crappy situation. I feel for you. We all do. I know next to nothing about mental disorders. I don't know if she will get better, worse, or status quo. Folks here are advocating divorce not because we are jaded, but because she has treated you terribly, in many ways. you have a lot of time together. We get that. She is sick. We get that. What you need to understand is you are not obligated to conitinue to put yourself and your kids well being in jeopardy just because you love her. I think you love the idea of who she used to be. You aren't ever going to see that person again. You certainly won't ever trust her again. Do not sentence yourself and your kids to a life with her.
> 
> ...


Philly nailed it.


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## Blacksmith01 (Aug 12, 2013)

Uptown said:


> With BPDers, Matt, it is impossible to love the problem away. No matter how much love you give her, you are always in a lose/lose position. The primary reason for this conundrum is that a BPDer's two fears lie at the opposite ends of the _very same_ spectrum.
> 
> This means that, as you move close to her to assure her of your love and devotion, you will trigger her engulfment fear -- making her feel suffocated and controlled by you. That's when she will start projecting that scary feeling onto you, with the result that -- at a conscious level -- she will be convinced YOU are the source of the scary feelings.
> 
> ...


This sounds very familiar to me. Sounds like my ex wife and my first long time gf after getting divorced. I agree that you need to run away from this and don't look back. You can not fix this/them. They will only drive you nuts.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> The doctor thought she was bipolar 2. Hospital says she is bpd and narcissistic personality disorder. Along with ADHD
> 
> Bpd , relationship problem, bad influence and alcohol problem are the root issues of this.
> 
> I'm upset angry all sorts of things about it go through me at any given time. I'm just so effed up myself.



*The above are just a few of the things that I read that tell me that you are WAY OVER YOUR HEAD in this situation*. Your wife had a terrible childhood and tried to kill herself twice and was just lucky you showed up or she would have been dead.

You may be in one of those situations where two people are out in the deep water and drowning. You can try and save your wife but if you do you both will drown or you can swim to safety. I know that is very cold but that maybe your situation. I hope that I am wrong and may very well be wrong. However, you have two children to rise. If you have done all that you can for your wife and she will not cooperate and keeps up her destructive ways then you are one of the people out in the deep water with her and you can only save yourself. You can also ask yourself the question of are your children better off with you and your wife continuing the way things have been? Would you and your children be better off if you get better and stop being dragged down by your uncooperative wife?

I have head stories where the person that is so messed up but when they are on their own they are forced to get better. In that case you would be doing you and your wife a favor by leaving her so that you and the children can get better and maybe she will not have you to blame and be more cooperative to treatment from others. These are some of my thoughts after reading your posts and I am no PhD or even trained in mental illness so I hope that you will find a professional that can lead you correctly. I just see no way that you can resolve your anger and other issues while you have a wife with very serious mental issues and a strong will to oppose you and any other help.

*My question for you is this. Are you and your children going to be better off with her or without her?*


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> *The above are just a few of the things that I read that tell me that you are WAY OVER YOUR HEAD in this situation*. Your wife had a terrible childhood and tried to kill herself twice and was just lucky you showed up or she would have been dead.
> 
> You may be in one of those situations where two people are out in the deep water and drowning. You can try and save your wife but if you do you both will drown or you can swim to safety. I know that is very cold but that maybe your situation. I hope that I am wrong and may very well be wrong. However, you have two children to rise. If you have done all that you can for your wife and she will not cooperate and keeps up her destructive ways then you are one of the people out in the deep water with her and you can only save yourself. You can also ask yourself the question of are your children better off with you and your wife continuing the way things have been? Would you and your children be better off if you get better and stop being dragged down by your uncooperative wife?
> 
> ...


Our society is full of messages that says "love can overcome anything". As a culture, we latch onto this philosophy. We believe a marriage is stronger than anything else out there.

Princess has been poisoned and is a 100 year coma....solution....Love's true kiss.

Blah blah blah. Those things are only true as long as BOTH parties are working 100% together and in the same direction. It's not easy, and it's much rarer than people want to admit.

Love is hard...love is work...love is the choices you make. Love IS NOT A PANACEA that exists of it's own accord!

Matt, you can't save everyone. Your love can't fix your spouse. Only she can through lots of PROFESSIONAL help.

One of the hardest things in a marriage is to know when it's time to call it quits. When to recognize that the issues at hand are larger than the actual marriage.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

mattpf1 said:


> Yes it may have been a similar situation. She did once tell me she is better than him and I am better than her. But it was a short affair. Two weeks of texts and one night of sexual acts that was admitted. I know there is hurtful details she won't ever tell me I am still a bit stuck at the wanting information part but I can move forward I think pretty easily. I never wanted her to feel like she is better than any body or that I am better than her. I did correct her instantly when she said that I am not better than her. We are both attractive people. Some of it still seems like it doesn't add up because everything I know I found out myself and that apparently is all there is to the story she says she is clean. *So I know she is either the biggest liar or the worst cheater ever because the first night she goes out cheating my friend catches her and I become the best detective and some how im able to find out absolutely everything. * I am still stuck here hopefully she sees why it's taking me so long it's very hard to believe I did infact find everything out. There was nothing she told me I didn't find out that's what made this suck so bad.


And this is the problem, pushing aside all of her health and psychological problems. You can't ever know for sure, 100%, what the truth is. And that is what eats away at Betrayed Spouses. If you ever take the time to read my thread (don't - it's boring) you will see that my situation is so much more tame than most others on here. Flirty texts with her boss while away for work. But I still get angry from time to time. There is always small doubt that you don't know the whole story. And the betrayal I was shown was a fraction of what most folks on here feel. So while we may often come across as jaded, know that while each situation is unique, most follow a playbook as to how things play out. 

Your wife follows the traditional pattern of a spouse who was caught cheating and is not a candidate for reconciliation. 

Admits only to what she knows you know for facts. 

Seems to show very little remorse, only sorry she was caught. 

Turns it back around on you, making you the bad guy and her the victim. To the point of instigating trouble where you ended up putting your hands on her. 

Shows no desire to give you the whole story beyond what you know. Are you telling me you are Sherlock Holmes, finding every single fact on your own, but there was NOTHING else? Goes back to admitting to just what you know. 

Would rather rug sweep the situation away, let's stop discussing it. 

None of this is unique. Her and 10,001 other wayward spouses here follow the same pattern. All of the above make a healthy reconciliation impossible. And I didn't even get into the BPD and OD on pills and suicide attempts and the rest.

I know you love her. But in my worthless opinion she is not spousal material. If not for your sake, then for your kids', it's time to move on.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Your wife follows the traditional pattern of a spouse who was caught cheating and is not a candidate for reconciliation.
> 
> Admits only to what she knows you know for facts.
> 
> ...



I really like your point and I know all of you think she is not looking like a candidate for reconciliation. I'm sure many people on this forum have reconciled successfully after this and have given advice . She has 1 year and that's it. I've discussed this with doctors and therapist. They recommend not to dump her until the first year or so has passed. Given our history and how much I love her that is fair. It's been 5 months her head was not in it till only weeks ago and even now she is still realizing more and more of her behaviour and simple decision making patterns and behaviours are not that of two loving spouses. I know it will take her longer than the year and I will assess that. But I stand firm on the one year I am not divorcing her yet I'm not making any choice to stay or leave until the first year has passed so I have has some significant time to look at it. She will be absolutely devastated if she does loose me I know this and she will not do better than me she knows this. Her mess is her mess I'm not picking it up any more. 

Again as for candidate for reconciliation part I believe she is not a typical person with normal reactions. She's going to take longer. But I do expect to see a lot more out of her . When this all happened I was the one agressively researching booking therapy doing what ever my health benefits covered us I was so assertive and I have not seen much of that from her .
I expected her I guess to agressively appoligize and not fight not bring up anything but she's sorry but that never happened it was always "I'm sorry I cheated BUT It didn't give YOU any reason to do this or do that ect" she needs to reassure me she's not ever going to even put herself in that situation again. Will power is not an option any more ..illimination of the potential before it can even occur ,I've lived by this myself for years it works. Also I want to know how she can guarantee me she is not going to take off one day in a few years. She is going to be living with heavy guilt and shame and BPD ,recipe for disaster. I was thinking post marital agreement with heavy financial implications so she really has to think about her choices before she leaves. Like if our marriage ends in divorce she gets no financial assets .no spousal support ( she did always work we both did ) but now I am allowing her a huge second chance at proving herself to me winning me back and I'm going to give her the opportunity to get better herself which means she can take me for spousal support if I do support her while she is getting better and reconciling. I'd say that what I am offering her is huge because we could divorce now I would not have to give her spousal support because we both always worked and I could probably get 100% custody of the kids. I am giving her a huge opportunity to screw me over .its a leap of faith but it what Im willing to put down for her for us.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You're still the one doing the heavy lifting to save this marriage, because of this, you will fail.

Just about every one of us in successful R, are in R because the WS was the one who did the heavy lifting to save the marriage. A truly remorseful WS will move heaven and earth to save the marriage - that is a FACT. 

The BS already has their own heavy lifting to do, which is improving themselves and learning to forgive. The last part is the hardest of all.

Yet yours continues to blameshift? Hell fracking no! Without true remorse from your WW, you are in False R and it is doomed to failure. You're giving her a year? Seriously? What she should have been doing from the begining, if she was truly remorseful, is to help *YOU* heal, get it? You probably don't since it seems you're the one trying to fix her and save the marriage. The onus is on her, the WS. 

Merely saying sorry is *NOT* true remorse. There should be NO blame shifting. She should be doing everything she can to make you feel safe and secure. Instead, its the opposite. 

FALSE R all the way.

June 11, 2010 was my D-Day, we're almost 5 years into R. If my fWW did ANY of the things yours did, I would have told her to GTFO, I'm done. The only reason I'm here is because SHE busted her ass to save this marriage.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

the guy said:


> Has your old lady given you a "hall pass"?
> 
> i ask cuz some chicks will face any and all consequences .....the ones that are selfish little bytches will never give up letting the man they hurt in the worst way go down that road.
> 
> ...


we are wired similar. 
She has not offered a hall pass,although I am a very sexual person she knows this and I would only be willing to do something like that if she was the one who chose the person and set the boundaries and was involved. I have no interest in having sex with somebody else I just think it would be amazing if she could give me that experience and be part of that. ....... But she is way to selfish and jealous ,she is open to it for herself to get her own rocks off but would not be able to even fathom that thought of sharing me. i told her about a lap dance I got one time her head just about exploded still she gets furious about it. 
Hall pass would be interesting concept our therapist spoke of it and some couples do use this as a method of getting over it


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Your therapist spoke about hall passes?










Ok, my spidey senses are tingling now.


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## Xenote2 (Feb 26, 2015)

Ok so she's getting therapy, on Meds, not drinking or showing any destructive behaviours, is a great mom and has made herself 100% available. Is she still blame shifting to this day? I feel everyone is a bit quick to judge. Living with someone with BPD is hard, VERY HARD. it is not cure able but it is manageable. As the personality disorder was formed it can be overcome. I think if you are serious you need to commend her for the little bit she is doing. The fact she has gone to and is still going to therapy is HUGE. Narcissism is part of BPD so getting someone with this disorder to talk about their flaws and open up to a stranger is very mentally taxing. I think you are very strong and would best be served to educate yourself on this disorder best you can. If you are serious about making this work you need to be there for her. I. Believe love can overcome anything. I am not in any way trying to get off topic of the horrendous things she has put you through but if I understand correctly you are looking for support to get through this. Yes it is going to take a very long time and I'm sure you would like it to be over just as much as her. As long as she isn't a harm to you, herself or your children. Is a functional member of society and you do think you can overcome this than all the power to you. As far as getting over whether your detective skills were efficient enough I agree a polygraph is the way to go. Not only will it free you (either way) but also her. You don't want to live with the "what ifs" and she probably doesn't want to live with either the guilt or the accusations.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Stay away from hall passes... All its will do is complicate the situation 100 times over.

Matt - I wish you the best and I hope everything works out for everyone involved.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

All a hall pass does is make the initial affair "acceptable". 

Because now you've both done it. The hall pass is to "level the field".

The problem is, you're "leveling" by reducing yourself to the level of cheating.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

*Love is not enough for a happy and healthy committed relationship like marriage!*.

Be honest with yourself for a minute. What would you tell a friend if he met and was interested in pursuing a woman with the exact issues as your wife?


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Xenote2 said:


> Ok so she's getting therapy, on Meds, not drinking or showing any destructive behaviours, is a great mom and has made herself 100% available. Is she still blame shifting to this day? I feel everyone is a bit quick to judge. Living with someone with BPD is hard, VERY HARD. it is not cure able but it is manageable. As the personality disorder was formed it can be overcome. I think if you are serious you need to commend her for the little bit she is doing. The fact she has gone to and is still going to therapy is HUGE. Narcissism is part of BPD so getting someone with this disorder to talk about their flaws and open up to a stranger is very mentally taxing. I think you are very strong and would best be served to educate yourself on this disorder best you can. If you are serious about making this work you need to be there for her. I. Believe love can overcome anything. I am not in any way trying to get off topic of the horrendous things she has put you through but if I understand correctly you are looking for support to get through this. Yes it is going to take a very long time and I'm sure you would like it to be over just as much as her. As long as she isn't a harm to you, herself or your children. Is a functional member of society and you do think you can overcome this than all the power to you. As far as getting over whether your detective skills were efficient enough I agree a polygraph is the way to go. Not only will it free you (either way) but also her. You don't want to live with the "what ifs" and she probably doesn't want to live with either the guilt or the accusations.



This is the best response yet thank you. She knows whats wrong and what needs doing. I think sitting back and relaxing and watching how it plays out would be a massive mistake on my part,I partially am to blame because I did this for 5 months already she has crap advice the best help she will get is from me and best help I will get is from her. I am going to keep pressure on her .you are correct she does not like any of her flaws at all infact only her mother is aloud to say anything about them. I believe her mother played a huge part in the development of her BPD , and has become a toxic enabler with good intentions not knowing she is actually causing damage. 

Somebody else mentioned that bad advice she gets needs to be cut off and I do agree. Her family expected me to sweep this under the rug at first ,than we were supposed to wipe one hand clean of each other her stuff for what I did when I freaked out,which totally did not make any sense because it only happened because of her. There has been a lot of crappy advice on both sides I know if this was my son or my friend in this situation I would tell them to leave but being here now I know that's real easy to say ,and who knows next relationship maybe worse and I would not have both parents with my amazing kids. Divorce has never even been an option to me. I asked her yesterday "what's the difference between our kids her mom and me " she answered "we have sex my mom is my buddie and my kids are my kids " .well I stumped her after this got her really thinking "why can't you break up with your kids or your mom " I said ? My point is I don't think she knows proper family values also along with many people on these forums. Relationships change once you have marriage and children. Your husband and wife bond is supposed to be like brother or sister or father son. You can't break it. I don't even think she has ever looked at men like that. Her real father separated from her mom at young age abandoned her, she never met him to this day. Her mother had a daughter before with another man she gave away for adoption and later met another man and he actually came into my wife's life when she was a young girl and played all she knows as a father figure but in early years was probably very uncomfortable for her. She has an older sister from the same father as her that has even more issues mentally than her. I think both her and her sisters issues both stem from this childhood . I was raised with my 4 younger brothers and mom and dad and they are still to this day togather. She seen my parents fight before and would tell me they do not love each other. I did not understand why she would think that ,they have 5 boys togather we drove them insane my mom pretty much didn't leave the house for 25 years raising us ,of course there going to be a bit crazy to each other that is normal. I'm not sure if any of you guys can make anything of this ? I am not certain on how she could even correct these issues now. We are 30 years old our parents are both over 50 she still has not met her dad ,her sister was here last weekend and I suggested to them both they should meet there real dad .they both responded negatively .


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Dad&Hubby said:


> All a hall pass does is make the initial affair "acceptable".
> 
> Because now you've both done it. The hall pass is to "level the field".
> 
> The problem is, you're "leveling" by reducing yourself to the level of cheating.


 I would never want a hall pass. I'd want her involved play out a long time fantasy of mine. She was open to getting herself off elsewhere with a car full of people. Why could she not be open to pleasing me like that . I think it could possibly help with resentment and anger I had towards what she did plus it would play out a long time fantasy I had so she would kill two birds with one stone. But she is so Jelious and selfish I don't know if she could possibly share me. She is also not comfortable enough in our relationship anymore so I don't think I could ever get this. i would never want to go outside our relationship it would be to hurtful to her I know how it feels I would never want her to go through this.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OP, here is something that me be of help to you.

*The Big 5 Fears of Borderlines, and How to Use Them *

*Going Mental: What makes borderlines tick, tick, tick?*


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## Xenote2 (Feb 26, 2015)

I think you are very well onto something with the causes of her BPD. I don't think it is realistic to expect her to have the same level of constant unconditional feelings for you as she has for her mother (at this time). Because of her illness (no offence) chances are her mother very well could've been her only constant in her life. Since she could be a contributor to this illness she has a level of understanding and with that being said until she feels you understand her she won't feel the level Of acceptance from you she needs to be in her "safe zone". With your children I can assume she feels no judgement from them and as thier mother it is maternal anyways. The situation she has put you in is difficult. There are a lot of decisions and possibly sacrifices that you might need to make. Can you work on closure and forgiveness while helping her forgive herself? Is there going to be a point where she will allow herself to be vulnerable and express her internal day to day struggle IF she can even put it into words. I feel for you and can sense you are strong willed. You both have an immense amount of work and discovery ahead. You need to be clear and stand ground on what you need. Don't settle for less than what you deserve. Remember you didn't didnt bring any of this upon yourself. The fact she hasn't run away from her wrong doing and is still with you facing what she has done to you is defying her BPD instincts. I honestly don't know where the balance will be for you with BPD and R. BPD is calmed with love and peace but the amount of mending she OWES you is immense. She needs to find a way to end the viscous cycle. I hope she can stay strong and push through therapy. I hope she can fully grasp the extent of agony she has put you through. Stay positive, if you give her a year, when the time comes you may be faced with using your head instead of your heart. Best wishes. I hope you find peace.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You're big problem is her BPD, adultery is a symptom of that condition. Nothing you have posted leads me to think you understand this. I don't see where you have a handle on the BPD diagnosis.. 

I'm going to pm a member here that has first hand knowledge of BPD and see if she can comment.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Uptown said:


> With BPDers, Matt, it is impossible to love the problem away. No matter how much love you give her, you are always in a lose/lose position. The primary reason for this conundrum is that a BPDer's two fears lie at the opposite ends of the _very same_ spectrum.
> 
> This means that, as you move close to her to assure her of your love and devotion, you will trigger her engulfment fear -- making her feel suffocated and controlled by you. That's when she will start projecting that scary feeling onto you, with the result that -- at a conscious level -- she will be convinced YOU are the source of the scary feelings.
> 
> ...


OP, please read this post again and again. It is very true. I divorced a BPDer after 11 years. Lose-lose is standard operations for a BPDer.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> You are correct- that's an issue. Rule of thumb if you need a question answered 100 times, she answers it 100 times. Barking back at you tells me she just wants to move on, your feelings be damned.
> 
> If I may ask what did she OD on? I can't imagine having 200 of any pills around, maybe Tylenol. And "all" that will do is mess up your liver.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Overdosing on Tylenol will kill you, not just mess up your liver. It is a slow, agonizing way to die. Or so said the ER doctor when I was admitted for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I'm sorry you went through that Pidge. I had a friend in college who also ODed on Tylenol, granted it was only 60 pill bottle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

We remodeled a house for a family that lost their mother from a regular dose of Tylenol..........after two liver transplants.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> You're big problem is her BPD, adultery is a symptom of that condition. Nothing you have posted leads me to think you understand this. I don't see where you have a handle on the BPD diagnosis..
> 
> I'm going to pm a member here that has first hand knowledge of BPD and see if she can comment.


I am well aware that cheating is common among people with bipolar and BPD. But it's also common for normal people too. I won't allow her to use BPD as an excuse for her cheating. Her suicide was the BPD she could not cope. But I don't buy that she could not control herself because BPD that night no matter how hard I was being on her at the current time. She was hanging out with a ***** who was screwing her boss who was telling her the only way to truly be happy is to live a double life. My wife may have been influenced and very drunk that night and that is still not good enough for me. She made the choice to text him earlier she walked Along the fence for too long one side was reality the other was epic destruction. You guys have no idea we had everything going for us now financially mentally and the kids we have had our life's turned upside down. I foresee a huge issue in the near future with finances now that will play a huge stress on us.

I don't know how I get through this. I don't know what to even do. Most of what I have done was by force. That guy she cheated with was forcibly removed from my life and hers. If I had known he was creeping around her work at late hours I would have done it long before than. I feel sometimes that after she was in the hospital I didn't even give her a choice I just went there got her better and brought her home. Maybe I should have kicked her out than she would have hit rock bottom. I made her quit that job. I systematically removed all the problems myself with force (toxic parasite friends)She did not agree at the time but had no choice .i did come from a fairly rough background and could have got people involved in which this would have been a lot worse and those people she was toxic with would have been in some serious troubles. I bring this up to her now and she agrees with the choices I worry that she didn't want this change that I forced but it was my way or we break up and she just didn't seem to know how to shake these bad habits and parasite friends.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Wow, just read through this while thread. And i, for one, do not believe your situation is hopeless. Your wife may begrudge your terms for staying married, but she is following them. Yes, the bpd makes it very difficult for her to regulate her behavior, but she can learn. 

Do not try to regulate her emotions. Her emotions need to be validated, and by that, she needs to know that it is ok for her to feel whatever she feels. It is ok to feel them, but that does not mean that it is always ok to act on them. 

I have a question for you... what is the one thing that you need the most from your wife? In other words, what specifically do you want her to do and/or say? 

She is carrying around an immense amount of toxic shame, so she is not likely to tell you how she really feels until she knows that her feelings have no bearing on whether or not you choose to love her. She needs to start thinking in terms of actions instead...

And so do you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Dogbert said:


> OP, here is something that me be of help to you.
> 
> *The Big 5 Fears of Borderlines, and How to Use Them *
> 
> *Going Mental: What makes borderlines tick, tick, tick?*


That is some majorly offensive crap.


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## Xenote2 (Feb 26, 2015)

mattpf1 said:


> I am well aware that cheating is common among people with bipolar and BPD.
> 
> Ok so just to clarify you are saying she is bipolar AND BPD? As these are very similar from my understanding she would be one or the other.
> 
> ...


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

This seems like it will be a hopeless battle. I am to all over the place. I am to emotional still and she is way to sensitive and always has been. I look back and I feel as if I've been in always impossible to win situations with her and for no reason. I am good about 60% of the time the other 40% I am choking on depression and all the symptoms from the post traumatic stuff. None of this is mixing well and I don't feel like she will ever truest let me in to her. Everybody is mean to everybody she just thinks that's unnatural .she looks back on her family life and says everybody in my life has been pretty mean to mean .i don't know if this is just a case of she is just such a fake whiner or it really is her BPD playing in to it. She was saying recently she doesn't even think she has BPD ect.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

I have no confidence moving forward in this relationship at all. It's very high risk now and I am a very low risk taker or only when needed. I am scared to go to work because things will go back to regular life stress and it will kill me even more. I don't know how this feeling goes away. I've gone to so much therapy now I am sick of it. 
i don't want to make my choice now I told myself for kids sake I will wait a significant amount of time like a year or two. It's on,y been months so ,and I have told her I am not decided yet as to moving forward or leaving I am just here to see how you are going to make this better and if there is even a chance at this working because I love her. I didn't want any of this at all.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

How old are you and your wife? You have only been together for eight years and recently married. She already cheated on you and you are living a horrible life. Can you live this way for the rest of your life?

See a psychologist to understand your mindset. I don't accept a bipolar disorder as a reason for cheating. You can help your wife by having her see a psychologist as well. Marriage counseling is in order for the both of you. However, I don't see a healthy relationship in the near future for you. It's your decision to stay in this marriage or not.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

D sounds pretty healthy here. This is messed up. She is responsible to take care of her issues. Many people with mental illness take measures to ensure they function normally. You are strong but she needs to grow up. You should be treated like a husband not a daddy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

I think you're going to find that trying to live in limbo for a year is going to be harder then you'd realized it would be.

You want to make the right choice. Or maybe, taking the right chance, would be closer to what you're having to decide.

Either way, they both have their risks. Do you stay and risk this happening yet again, or do you go and risk never knowing what would have happened?

I'm guessing that your head is telling you to leave to avoid anymore pain, but your heart is telling you to stay, because she's the familiar, the known.

What ever you eventually decide to do, you need to do it for you and you only. Not children, family, or friends sake, but for your own.

Make the choice, take the chance, on how it effects you and no one else. Decide on it for the right reasons and you'll be less likely to second guess this decision in the years to come.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

The emotional roller coaster ride you are on may not completely end a year from now but your emotional fortitude will be significantly greater than it is right now. The key will be how far your emotional detachment has progressed.

You will know when you are ready to make the right decision when you are ready to follow the same advice you'd give to a friend in a very similar situation.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

We have been fighting a bit ,but good 70% of the time she has taken off to her moms for a week seems like she has her foot out the door telling me things like "if I want to be her number 1 I will have to do this" 
We got into heated talk and she said if I wasn't such a Peice of sheits husband none of this would be happening. It's been over 6 months now we go up and down its pretty normal. She came home the other day saying she doesn't have BPD anymore and that she is normal and all her stress is just from me . 

We had our first child when we just met each other it was scary situation we rented an apartment and at age of 3 months she would call me a deadbeat father and all I would do was work and support my family and want yo come home and relax. Now the relevance to this is her issue is in her head. I was a deadbeat dad when in reality I was an excellent dad and provider for her and now after taking her back saving her life going through all this traumatic stress I am not her number 1 and have to earn that? I don't think I will ever be able to be nor do I ever think anybody will be. She is now become way overweight taking crazy advice from her mom and friends who are single moms who have new guys all the time. Her saying she is all better now doesn't have any mental issue at all after what happened she's only been to 4 sessions of therapy and hasn't followed up with the doctor infact I have had furious fights with her about the doctor I had to take her the first time. She is scared to get help and her mom has told her to not get labeled in the medical system because it looks bad and just make it look like its actually all me I recovered deleted texts between the two of them. I need advice things seemed good it got a bit rough but it doesn't seem like she is acknowledging the trauma I am suffering and taking resposibility for herself. She caused a huge scene because I was really heated about her now being 40 days past due her follow up with our family doctor.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Well, there's your answer right there. No. Remorse. At. All.

There's nothing to save. Unless you want to go thru this cycle the next 15-20 years. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

And I have been real hard on her recently I will admit that. But I descovered texts she deleted from her mom . The mom was telling her to go to her therapist tell her basically that I am the stress and a danger to our kids lol that one kills me apparently so there is a paper record of it which will hold no legal ground in a court anyways because it's still just her word.... It's just absolute destruction it's a common coping skill with personality disorders .her mom told her to get the label removed and when she got home from the therapist I said you need to go to the doc still it's been over 30 days. she freaked and we had a blow out. She refused the doc and ran away. She was all better. Didn't need the doc anymore said her therapist said she was all good ect. Than 3 days ago I recovered these juicy texts between her and her mom. Good job mom your screwing your daughter out of something good. Her mom also suffers serious mental illness. Pretends she is fine takes medication but doesn't believe in mental illness. She is the type that's in denial but needs Meds to function. I can't see this going on much longer. She wants to come home tomorrow and I clearly am so stressed and have no idea what to do or say. I feel so disconnected. I have the kids she has been gone for 7 days since this episode.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

mattpf1 said:


> I have the kids she has been gone for 7 days since this episode.


I hope you are documenting all this for your impending divorce.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

azteca1986 said:


> I hope you are documenting all this for your impending divorce.


Good God protect yourself and CARRY A VOICE ACTIVATED RECORDER whenever you deal with her.
She is a walking time bomb.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

A written journal with dated entries, is considered evidence in many family courts. Talk to a divorce attorney if this is true for your State or province.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

A journal is my word against hers and will only stand up as that in the end anyways. I'm not ready for divorce yet. I don't think I can leave her. What I have been through none of you will understand. I pulled her out of here so messed up than seen her in the hospital and seen things nobody wants to ever see. Looked like she was dying . I feel An attachment none of you would understand. She messed up and has issues .she right now needs to figure out what side of the fence she wants to be on and than completely take down the fence so it can't be walked along. Her moms advice is absolutely sick. Buts it's biased because she hears only the bad and she is the one who passed down the mental stuff to her and every time a story is told you know how it sounds especially from an angry personality disorder who feels they are being wronged but in her case she is because she doesn't understand that I do snap sometimes because I am stressed traumatized and when I am reminded of certain things sometimes I even have a bad dream of her dying or something like that and I am set off miserable for hours and she will have no problem barking back which is so messed up but that's her flaw and mine right now.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Matt gently...
She is the only one who can help herself and she doesn't want to.
This will only get worse without meds or therapy.
I'm sorry.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

mattpf1 said:


> I feel An attachment none of you would understand.












You may want to seek counseling yourself for your codependency issues. 

Good luck with living in limbo.


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## Rafi (Mar 25, 2015)

Why not considering moving away from her mother and her surrounding to another place. Look for another job, take your family and move.

You are dealing with a bunch of nuts and they will make you crazy at the end of the day.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> You may want to seek counseling yourself for your codependency issues.
> 
> Good luck with living in limbo.


And constant walking on eggshells.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> You are no good for each other. Best to part ways. Make sure you get yourself and your kids into counseling.
> 
> Good luck my friend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This was on Page 1. He's kind of a douche but in this case he's right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> This was on Page 1. He's kind of a douche but in this case he's right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doosh.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

mattpf1 said:


> I am good looking I am good provider and I love having sex and very good at it and could easily replace her if I wanted ,she is not sexual never really has been.
> 
> So She is willing to sign a post marital agreement basically putting her half on the line than doing a polygraph if she fails we divorce she gets nothing. That is a higher level of commitment to me .polygraph is $500 post numb is $3000. Or I fight with her potentially loose half to a parasite that doesn't desreve half of what i have built. She was not working hard at work and at home. I was she doesn't deserve half. She may be bluffing though


Some guy posted the above a little while ago

seemed good advice

I think if you followed it and armed with the answers you got either in the car park just before the test or during you would have no troble decideing what to do.............

And of course if she wouldnt do it.....well....no brainer


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

mattpf1 said:


> I'm not ready for divorce yet. I don't think I can leave her. What I have been through none of you will understand. I pulled her out of here so messed up than seen her in the hospital and seen things nobody wants to ever see. Looked like she was dying . I feel An attachment none of you would understand.


This is true, we don't understand. However what you're failing to understand is:

1. It takes two willing partners to make a marriage 
2. What a healthy marriage looks like
3. That you're clearly co-dependent
4. You don't have the skill-set to 'fix' her


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> 4. You don't have the skill-set to 'fix' her


Sadly neither does she or her mother.


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## mattpf1 (Feb 25, 2015)

lordmayhem said:


> You may want to seek counseling yourself for your codependency issues.
> 
> Good luck with living in limbo.





You guys I am in cousilling. I would have hung myself long ago no normal person would have been able to cope this long. I do have a past with some pretty intense trauma and I do have ability to cope with incredible amounts of pain. 


As for moving away from her family. They do live in a different city 200km North of us it's not far enough away unfortunately but running away my friends would never fix this. I will give her some time to fix her self she is a stubborn one and will realize she is the one who needs fixing. Manipulating therapist ect.... That's the kinda person who needs serious help she will grasp it she's smart she's just a slow learner. When I say do it she won't and because I did everything for her so far I'm going to let her sit in limbo now. 

As for codependency issues. I don't think it's an issue. I just went through a life threatening event with her surrounded by some real nasty stuff we have kids I love her period. If I want to disconnect i have many ways to do that. I'm not obligated to her problems and issues but I am obligated to my kids and us separating and her than living the life her mom did having kids with 3 different men the cycle will continue and my kids will have those issue and my kids issues are my issues.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

mattpf1 said:


> A journal is my word against hers and will only stand up as that in the end anyways.


Did you confirm that with a lawyer?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Mattpf1
> I bet she would commit suicide. That's what I'm scared of
> 
> I am choking on depression and all the symptoms from the post traumatic stuff.
> ...


The above are just a very few of your statements that tell me that you desperately need to grow some cajones between your legs or follow the instructions that you have been given time and time again.

Your marriage is a nightmare, you are so scared that you are becoming a weakling, and your wife has no intention of becoming the wife that you want. If she did she would show some remorse and some actions that prove that she is going to quit blaming you for her failures.

You are riding the fence and asking for advice but do not take the advice that would force this issue to break the destruction cycle. I am sure that the great amount of counselling you have had this last 6 months plus what some have told you on this forum have directed you to some actions that would improve te situation. You know what to do you but just make excuses as why you do not do them.* You can do better so don't give up but do take some action that will improve your nightmare.*


*Quit trying to save your marriage and save yourself and your children!*


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