# Husband Doesn't care about Retirement or Debt Payment



## Sally36 (Apr 19, 2017)

Hi Everyone, 

This is my first post. My husband and I have been married for almost 3 years (in June) together for 6. There is a 22 year age gap with him being 58, 7 years from retirement.
He is a social worker and I am a lawyer, but I work for a small firm and we make very similar income which can be considered middle class (58,000-60,000).

The problem is my husband has $40,000 line of credit which he recently added to the debt on the mortgage of the condo we live in, like a second mortgage (he bought the condo year before meeting me, but has no equity on it and this $40,000 debt) plus close to $9,000 in credit card debt. He has around $10,000 in retirement savings and no other savings or money in the bank. When we got married we kept our finances separate because I had serious concerns about his financial situation. I give him a fixed sum every month for common expenses and pay for all of our vacations and entertainment as well as internet. 

The main issue is he has an adult daughter from his previous marriage (23 in May) who has a bit of a princess syndrome. She wanted to do her undergrad in a different city instead of attending school in our home town which has 2 of the top universities in our country. The reason my husband has all this debt is because he had to pay for her housing and other expenses while she was away in university. Last June she graduated and has been sitting at home not working for almost a year. My husband gives her $400 a month (this is what he tells me but the figure may be higher, I just don't know.) Now the daughter has decided she wants to go to the U.S. to study for her Masters Degree (we live in Canada), she has no money and obviously hasn't worked for a year and has no plan on how she will be paying for this. My husband says shell get a loan but I seriously doubt the loan will cover all living expenses IF she can get a loan in the first place.

I am afraid he will be on the hook to keep paying and paying for her school and life style that neither him, the stepdaughter or even the ex wife can afford. The ex wife works 2 jobs and she is 60 to pay for her and her daughters expenses. I don't get how a person that lives at home has so much expenses.

I've had many discussions with my husband to stop the financial support and start focusing on paying of the debt and preparing for retirement, but all I get is "don't worry about my future," " I won't ask you for any money" "she is my daughter I have to give her money whether i can afford it or not" "you're a lawyer you don't need my money" and other things like that.

We've made an appointment to go see a marriage counsullor next week, but if this issue doesn't get resolved I don't think I can stay with him. It's not so much the money as he doesn't see us as a team and has no concern for our future as a married couple. I really feel sad and betrayed.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Get with a reputable credit counseling service, and they may just be able to help you see the light at the end of tunnel!

Debt repayment laws are habitually changing and it's well worth talking to these service companies about it!*


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

He really is in quite a pickle with being 58 and only $10,000 in retirement. And, debt on top of that. Yes, the daughter is a princess and he’s enabling her. He really isn’t doing her any favors. I’m always floored by parents now-a-days that pay for college quite frequently (even if they can’t afford it) and even after college expenses. It seems to be more of an expectation with millennials; entitlement at its finest. Being concerned about your marriage as a couple is valid. He likely will not be able to work in 10-15 years. So guess who will be supporting him and his retirement? It’ll be all you.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Your husband doesn't seem to have a marriage mentality. He sees "his" future, not "our" future. He sees "his" money, not "our" money. It might be hard to get him to embrace the idea of shared financial goals in the marriage, if bank accounts are kept separate. But given his philosophy on debt, I think you need to keep the accounts that way while striving for more cooperation.

Your husband seems stuck in the moment with his approach to debt. I imagine he sees it as manageable, because of low minimum monthly payments. I imagine he is overly fixated on his daughter's future, and not his own. In my opinion, these are the roots of the problem. You need to get him "marriage-minded", aligned on joint retirement goals, and away from the notion that his daughter is no longer an adult (she must fend for herself, else she'll remain dependent).

My advice would be to get your husband to understand the long-term constraints of that debt. Paint the picture very clearly by forcing him to consider the scenario where he stops working in a few years. What is his source of income (does the government provide any)? How does he service his debt given that income? At what rate is his debt growing, given outlays for his daughter? I'm guessing under some reasonable assumptions that if his income goes down and his debt goes up, you can show him that supporting his daughter and himself is eventually not possible without a capital injection from you. Your situation will become supporting three adults on one middle income salary (+minimal money from govt) while saving for retirement, which will be very hard to do. Tell him that you can't manage that, and tell him that he shouldn't expect your earnings to change (seems like he views you as "under potential", earnings-wise).

One last thing: in the states, Dave Ramsey (https://www.daveramsey.com/fpu) runs a program that has helped millions of folks get debt-free and enjoy a fuller life. I recommend you enroll yourself and your husband in his online program (no groups in Canada, sorry), and see if that helps. The program cost (~90 USD) seems minimal when compared to the possible benefits from changing one's views on debt and money. If you call into his radio show and explain your situation, he may waive the program cost for you and your husband. Just an idea... Good luck!


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Sally36 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> This is my first post. My husband and I have been married for almost 3 years (in June) together for 6. There is a 22 year age gap with him being 58, 7 years from retirement.
> He is a social worker and I am a lawyer, but I work for a small firm and we make very similar income which can be considered middle class (58,000-60,000).
> ...


In the US, your money would not be considered legally separate...but I don't know of Canada. As you're an attorney, you're in a better position to know if your money becomes 'marital property'. All I'm saying is be careful in assuming that you have done what you need for your financial records, credit history, etc, to not be considered one with his.

Since the two of you earn the same amount, I'd say stop giving him money. In study after study, people spend less as they age. Kids gone, house paid for, all the big ticket things once yearned for in youth have proven to add less happiness than expected, etc. This despite inflation. At 58, he should be down on the personal spending curve. If his daughter chooses to be a princess, that's her decision.

Most counselors will tell you that money debates are usually control debates. However, I like to think that there are limits to how un-frugal one can be and be healthy. The counselor may well ask what else he spends money on. What's the debt? Did he buy stuff to compensate for feeling unhappy about something? Can that something be addressed?

In my eyes, $40k of debt isn't much. But you haven't said if there's any savings. If not, at age 58 - this feels very uncomfortable. In the US, $60k income at 58 years old is below average. If he's been earning below average his entire life, then he "should" have also learned to lead a below-the-Joneses lifestyle - that is, spend less than you earn. Assuming this, he would have known his daughter cannot live like a princess. But it sounds as if he has not really accepted the financial position he's chosen based on job/income. That would be the real problem. Also, I don't have any idea what Canada's retirement system is like.

i used to volunteer in consumer credit counseling. If your husband, as a 58 year old single dad, came to us with $60k income and $40k debt, our advice would be:
- The debt isn't all that bad. Generally, by adjusting lifestyle, with some adjustments temporary and some permanent, you can pay off a debt of 2/3 your income in about 18 months.
- However, at your age, simply getting rid of the debt may not be enough to be able to retire at the normal age. 
- Deal with the debt first.
- You will do an austerity program. Some items you'll need to do permanently, given looming retirement. Some may be temporary. You will only know which is which by doing a yearly checkup and prediction.
- Your children must participate in the austerity program

Austerity program:
List your expenses a couple of different ways. You don't have to list all of them, but make sure to list anything that takes more than 10% of annual income.
One way is "wants" verssus "needs". A "need" is anything required to keep you alive and employed. 
Another way is to consider whether the outflow is creating an asset or is simply burned away and irrecoverable.
Another method is to list the biggest expense first.
All methods are useful.

Reduce "needs". 
- You need to eat. But you don't need to eat out. Meals out average 4X the cost of meals made at home.
- You need heat and cooling at home. For most, this is a very large expense. All large expenses (this is why you made one list with biggest at the top) are ripe for biggest savings. You may not be able to reduce the mortgage, but you can reduce utilities. Wear sweaters in the winter and wet bandanas on the neck in summer, leading to heating and cooling less. If you're in a building with many other units, this works really well. One cold Michigan winter, when I was on my own max-austerity program, I shut off the heat completely. My apartment got down to 62 and stayed there - got enough from the rest of hte building.
- Got a car? Less than 5 years old? Modern cars, especially a few Asian brands, can go 250k miles without any expensive work. Sell the 5 year old car, get a 15 year old car. Enlist the aid of a friend who knows cars well for this - dealers are not your friend. In most places, you'll not only get cash back to apply to the debt, but you'll reduce running costs, by having lower insurance and registration fees.
- If you have any other significant sellable items like a boat, please sell them too. Sadly, many westerners pour their money into consumer electronics, which have very little resale value. 
- Clothing - let it wear out. Stop buying any. At your income, it's highly unusual to have a special event that actually requires new clothes. If critical items (underwear) wears out, replace.

Watch money-burners:
Anything that you buy via subscription is a money-burner. You never get that money back, you do not have a saleable asset.
- Cable TV? Dump it. Lots of free sites on the 'net to watch movies, etc.
- The phones - make sure you're not paying for more than you need
- Printed magazines. No.
- How about for-pay websites? Dump all you can. Remember - if it doesn't keep you alive or employed, it's a luxury.

Shopping centers - stop thinking of shopping as a form of entertainment, and consider it drudgery. Helps a lot.

This becomes a habit after a while. I haven't been to a mall in over ten years.


Retirement - again, I don't know the Canadian system. In the US, if his present $60k income was arrived at by working this kind of work since he started working, and his raises have kept up with inflation, then at age 67, he'd be eligible for retirement income in the US of $20k per year. That's the budget he has to shoot for, long-term, to live on. Corrected for US/Canadian difference, of course.


I have always felt that money arguments could be solved by looking at the math, but I was not prepared for money being an emotional attachment. For me, it's only been math, all along...gotta have enough, yeah I'm spending too much, and that's emotional, but I can apply math and see what my goals should be. I basically didn't obey my own goals until age 40, at which time I implemented austerity - nothing like as severe as some - was debt-free in a year, found gobs of ways to be happier while spending less and crossed the million dollar boundary without even knowing I had.

Good luck.

DD


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Sally36 said:


> I am afraid he will be on the hook to keep paying and paying for her school and life style that neither him, the stepdaughter or even the ex wife can afford. The ex wife works 2 jobs and she is 60 to pay for her and her daughters expenses. I don't get how a person that lives at home has so much expenses.


Forgot to mention this. "On the hook" means obligated.

The only way for him to be on the hook for this is to volunteer to be on the hook. 

I don't know if this will appeal but - "Make your own choices, do not volunteer to support a lifestyle someone else wants". In the US, daughter is legally an adult. It's entirely possible to work your way through college, and would do her well.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Sally36 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> This is my first post. My husband and I have been married for almost 3 years (in June) together for 6. There is a 22 year age gap with him being 58, 7 years from retirement.
> He is a social worker and I am a lawyer, but I work for a small firm and we make very similar income which can be considered middle class (58,000-60,000).


You can stop right there. If I'm reading this correctly...guess who the retirement fund is? You. A 22 year age gap. Your H retires in 7 years. Gets his SS and probably some sort of retirement from government social work. You pick up the slack as you continue to work financing retirement for your H.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You obviouslly didn't marry him for his money. Does he bring a lot to the marriage? Hopefully you two are in deep love and can remain in love when he hits 60, 70, and 80. 

From my view, this seems weird to me, especially since the finances are really causing division. 

His daughter has been there for 22 years. He's going to pick her over you I'm fairly certain. From his point of view, you are trying to divide them and cause conflict and he won't like that. I don't see this happy marriage lasting long if you start to resent him over him supporting his daughter.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

IMO, end this marriage. I don't know what divorce laws are like in Canada where you live, but if you wait and build up assets, he'll probably get half. And if he stops working to retire, you may be liable for spousal support if his sources of income amount to less than yours. You could lose a lot - and as a spouse, you may be liable for any new debt he takes on. Yes, get out ASAP, and get legal advice on how to do that at the least cost to yourself now and in the future.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> You can stop right there. If I'm reading this correctly...guess who the retirement fund is? You. A 22 year age gap. Your H retires in 7 years. Gets his SS and probably some sort of retirement from government social work. You pick up the slack as you continue to work financing retirement for your H.


I agree. He doesn't need a retirement plan because he has you. Which, to be frank, is a crock of ****.

In addition to marriage counseling, he needs financial counseling. 58 and only $10k for retirement? Oh. My. God. I nearly spit out my drink when I read that. Did you guys not discuss finances before you got married? Hell, I know EVERYTHING about my partner's finances (the good, the bad, and the ugly), and he never intends on getting married again, so we're not even close! 

Not only are you guys not on the same page financially, you're not even reading the same book! Are you sure you want to stay married to this man, when you are clearly SO incompatible financially? Unless he gets his act together, he is going to be a huge financial burden on you once he retires, because not only will you be supporting him and paying his debt, your money will also be going to support his daughter. And if his debt isn't paid off when he dies... guess who will be on the hook for that?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

> And if his debt isn't paid off when he dies... guess who will be on the hook for that?


Bingo!

Your H is very clever.


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## Sally36 (Apr 19, 2017)

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply,

The way I've made calculations we can definatly pay the debt back within 2-3 years if he agrees to cooperate with me, make and stick to a budget and stop giving his daughter money every month. The issue is he doesn't want to make a budget, isn't concerned about the debt and pretty much has said he won't stop giving his daughter money.

Most of the debt is related to the daughters education, my husband doesn't buy anything for himself (he has no money to do so) and he has no bad habits like smoking gambling etc...If he doesn't agree to take this issue seriously and work with me on it i will have no choice but to leave.

The funny thing is without me he would just barely have enough to pay his bills and nothing more for debt payment, savings or for his daugther.

He has no savings what so ever except $10,000 in retirement savings. We actually expect a hefty $5000 condo bill we have to pay for renovations next year and I've asked him to start saving for his share of that but he is not concerned about that either.


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## Sally36 (Apr 19, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> You obviouslly didn't marry him for his money. Does he bring a lot to the marriage? Hopefully you two are in deep love and can remain in love when he hits 60, 70, and 80.
> 
> From my view, this seems weird to me, especially since the finances are really causing division.
> 
> His daughter has been there for 22 years. He's going to pick her over you I'm fairly certain. From his point of view, you are trying to divide them and cause conflict and he won't like that. I don't see this happy marriage lasting long if you start to resent him over him supporting his daughter.


He does bring alot to the relationship and no i did not marry him for his money at all. We do love each other very much and have over come a lot of obstacles. While I didn't marry him for his money I also didn't marry him with the understanding that he would be supporting his grown daughter indefinitely while refusing to build a future with me. I was hoping once the daughter got her BA she would get a job and a life and he would be able to focus on us, but it's clear to me now that that is not going to happen.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Yup, you are going to have to leave. He has made up his mind come hell or high water. He can own his mind "full of it ways". You need to take care of you. 

You had a marriage with your own separate clauses so to speak. It was weird since the beginning. Weird meaning not good. It's not a marriage of til death due us part. It's more until $ due us part along with the age difference as well. 22 years difference is not something you can dismiss that easily over time you know (pun intended). Most don't marry a partner with that much age between them and for good reason.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Sally36 said:


> He does bring alot to the relationship and no i did not marry him for his money at all. We do love each other very much and have over come a lot of obstacles. While I didn't marry him for his money I also didn't marry him with the understanding that he would be supporting his grown daughter indefinitely while refusing to build a future with me. I was hoping once the daughter got her BA she would get a job and a life and he would be able to focus on us, but it's clear to me now that that is not going to happen.


I can see assisting a child with the first 4 years of college. My W and I have with our two daughters. Going beyond a BA is on their tab. I'm not one for financing a "career" student. 

I think you need to talk to your H about the continuing college education. Priorities change. You and your H do not owe the daughter additional education to boot.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

And I thought I was not prepared for retirement. First off, the age gap is going to zap you sooner or later. Do you think that at 58 when you are still active, that you want to deal with a husband who is 80? Care for an elderly man may mean 24/7 care from you. I live in a retirement community and see this happen all of the time. I never worried about medical problems or dying until I hit 60 years old 5 years ago and saw people near my age or even younger, dying every day. Men who are vital all of a sudden struck with a stroke and need constant care.

I was like your husband. I make more than double your combined income and yet, I have friends with low paying jobs who have more money in the bank than me. We spent it as fast as we got it. My wife and I are both from very poor families and all of a sudden I made it in my profession and we showered ourselves with anything we wanted. I have owned 9 large homes and we each bought a new car every two years since we were 21. Custom made and designer clothes, Private clubs, limos, 4 vacations a year, etc.. We never had kids so we had all of that money to spend also. I supported my wife and our long time girlfriend who lived with us. We partied and I had lots of money for parties and the stuff that lowers inhibitions. We did not save much. 

When I hit 58 I saw the light. Sold off our house and cars, bought a small ranch house and a Honda CR-V. We buy our clothes from a department store made by companies we never heard of. No more going out to eat several times a week. No more limos or any of that other stuff. At 58 we move to our retirement community and saw the cost of retirement and how health issues can disable or kill you in a day. I spent $20,000 on medical and dental care in the last 12 months. My wife spent over $30K. Cannot afford to retire right now but am lucky due to my salary and 25% of the net profits so of the company. Still I have to work until at least the age of 69 and that is with giving up a lot of stuff like extra channels on cable and only one cell phone between us. No more fancy cars either. At 58 I paid off all of our debts with the profit we made from the sale of my old house. The only thing I owe is what is left on my small mortgage and I may pay that off at the end of this year. I saw the light because I live among others my age and older. I saw what can happen and the consequences of not being prepared.

You also have your age difference as a problem. My sister married a man 20 years older than her. When they were much younger it was no problem until she found herself carrying for an old man who could not do anything and had a lot of medical problems. She felt that in her early 50's she had to give up her life. No more dancing, vacations or anything. She divorced him an even had to buy him out of the house because like your husband, he had not planned for retirement and had nothing. My sister had to marry the first guy she met with a pension to survive old age and is also working and will do so as long as she can. 

My sister did one smart thing though, she had her husband take out a large insurance policy on his life before they married. She got that in her divorce so when he dies, she gets enough money to live on but he is still going in his mid eighties despite heart problems. You need to make your husband think of you and not just himself. I too thought that the future will take care of itself but learned that it does not and is worse than imagined. Good luck.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Sally36 said:


> Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply,
> 
> The way I've made calculations we can definatly pay the debt back within 2-3 years if he agrees to cooperate with me, make and stick to a budget and stop giving his daughter money every month. The issue is he doesn't want to make a budget, isn't concerned about the debt and pretty much has said he won't stop giving his daughter money.
> 
> ...


Have you told him this? You need to have a Come to Jesus talk with him, and if he still doesn't take this seriously, you need to be prepared to walk.

This man is going to ruin you financially if he doesn't come around to reality.


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## Sally36 (Apr 19, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> Have you told him this? You need to have a Come to Jesus talk with him, and if he still doesn't take this seriously, you need to be prepared to walk.
> 
> This man is going to ruin you financially if he doesn't come around to reality.


I have tried to discuss all this with him, but when it comes to this topic he just doesn't hear me at all. Thats why I agreed to counselling, maybe a neutral third party will be beneficial in helping us communicate, otherwise i am preparing myself mentally to leave, if he is willing to let me go over this I am probably better off.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Sally36 said:


> I have tried to discuss all this with him, but when it comes to this topic he just doesn't hear me at all. Thats why I agreed to counselling, maybe a neutral third party will be beneficial in helping us communicate, otherwise i am preparing myself mentally to leave, if he is willing to let me go over this I am probably better off.


If he's willing to let you go over this and not hear your concerns, he's not a good partner nor is he a team player. 

I hope you guys can work this out, but he sounds stubborn and tone-deaf.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Sally36 said:


> ....The problem is my husband has $40,000 line of credit which he recently added to the debt on the mortgage of the condo we live in, like a second mortgage (he bought the condo year before meeting me, but has no equity on it and this $40,000 debt) plus close to $9,000 in credit card debt. He has around $10,000 in retirement savings and no other savings or money in the bank. When we got married we kept our finances separate because I had serious concerns about his financial situation. *I give him a fixed sum every month for common expenses and pay for all of our vacations and entertainment as well as internet. *
> 
> 
> ....I've had many discussions with my husband to stop the financial support and start focusing on paying of the debt and preparing for retirement, but all I get is "don't worry about my future," " I won't ask you for any money" "she is my daughter I have to give her money whether i can afford it or not" "you're a lawyer you don't need my money" and other things like that.
> ...





_anonymous_ said:


> ,,,,,One last thing: in the states, *Dave Ramsey (https://www.daveramsey.com/fpu) runs a program that has helped millions of folks get debt-free and enjoy a fuller life. I recommend you enroll yourself and your husband in his online program (no groups in Canada, sorry), and see if that helps.* The program cost (~90 USD) seems minimal when compared to the possible benefits from changing one's views on debt and money. If you call into his radio show and explain your situation, he may waive the program cost for you and your husband. Just an idea... Good luck!


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

The Dave Ramsey Debt Relief program is simplistic and not totally correct from a financial perspective, but it seems to have the simple discipline that some people need to learn how to change their spending habits. 

His program is called Financial Peace. Many Churches offer the program as well as groups. You can watch some of the parts of the program on YouTube and you can call and sign up for his books/workbooks. *Discuss this with your marriage counselor.*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sally36 said:


> He does bring alot to the relationship and no i did not marry him for his money at all. We do love each other very much and have over come a lot of obstacles. While I didn't marry him for his money I also didn't marry him with the understanding that he would be supporting his grown daughter indefinitely while refusing to build a future with me. I was hoping once the daughter got her BA she would get a job and a life and he would be able to focus on us, but it's clear to me now that that is not going to happen.


I looked up asset/debt split in divorce in Canada. Apparently it's basically like community property state in the USA. 

That means that what you had before marriage is yours alone as long as you did not mix marital assets/income with it. Mixing it can convert sole property to community property if you are not careful. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

With that in mind, if you were to divorce him, he's getting half of anything in your accounts that you acquired since you married him. And, you will get half is debit. This is a pretty serious breach on his part.

Like you said, without you to support him, he could not be giving all this money to his daughter. This means that you is basically giving your money to his daughter.

I get a parent wanting to help their child through college.

Years ago I told my son that as long as he was in college and doing well he could stay at home. If he wanted to go to a school out of state, then he would have to find his own way to find his living expenses. He is still living at home. He has two BS degrees in physics and applied mathematics. He has finished his MS in Physics. And while getting his MS hw worked as a teaching assistant which paid in an income and covered all his tuition, books and fees. It's not a lot of money but it covers a lot of his bills. He is very frugal. Now he has a fellowship, doing research and working on the PhD in Physics. 

So I do get him wanting to help his daughter. But what he's doing is not really helping her. It's spoiling her. For him to give her money to sit home for a year is beyond ridiculous. If she wants to pursue a Masters in the USA, she needs to get student loans, apply for a TA position, find a job and/or some other way to fund it.

What is her degree in?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, does Canada have a credit rating system like we do in the USA? If you do, I suggest that you pull both of your credit reports. You just might find some surprises on his credit report.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Yeswecan said:


> You can stop right there. If I'm reading this correctly...guess who the retirement fund is? You. A 22 year age gap. Your H retires in 7 years. Gets his SS and probably some sort of retirement from government social work. You pick up the slack as you continue to work financing retirement for your H.


Except her income isn't high enough to support two, particularly the way he spends it. If he were marrying for money, he'd have done better with someone his age who has actually saved at the normal rate.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Sally36 said:


> Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply,
> 
> .... my husband doesn't buy anything for himself....
> 
> ...




Boy, something does not add up. How does a guy earning $60k make it to 58 and only have $10k in savings, if he spends nothing on himself and has no bad habits? 

How did he make ends meet before he met you? Maybe that's a good start? "Darling, how did you spend before we got married? You know I don't earn any more than you, so I don't think it's right if you're using my added income to increase your spending. Given our modest incomes, this is clearly not a marriage for money, so how about we figure out what lifestyles we had before and just keep them?

$5000 is nothing today. A furnace replacement. A major car repair. If $5000 is something you have to "save" for, then life has some real dissappointments in store for you. You need a minimum of $15,000 easily-accessible or six months' worth of net income, whichever is higher, in case of unforeseen expenses. After all, the furnace could crap out, the car could need a sudden repair AND the roof could fail, all in the same week! I've actually had two of those things happen the same week, then I got laid off. This is the reality of life. 

He has to get with the program and allow the two of you to save as if you're planning to succeed in life.

Marriage should never be about money, and I am saddened by those whose marriages include money obsession. But in your case, the incomes are modest enough that the only way to make it work is to either carefully control spending so that the daughter can be spoiled to the point where nobody will like her - or live a normal life and force the girl to act like an adult. OK, maybe a bit extreme, but you get the point. Said daughter is not being helped by the largesse.

DD


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

You married an old man who is not compatable with you. 

You know what you need to do.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DustyDog said:


> Except her income isn't high enough to support two, particularly the way he spends it. If he were marrying for money, he'd have done better with someone his age who has actually saved at the normal rate.


Her H will get SS. Not enough to live on. He will probably get something from the state he has worked as a social worker. Conjecture he worked for the state. I don't know any social workers who work for any entity but the state. It may provide just enough. Her continued income will cover anything else.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

This is probably not true, per Census Department stats. For adults 55-64 with an income (from whatever source (, $60k puts him in the top one-third (the median is $42k). If you factor in that 32% of people that age had no income, he is close to top 20%.

If you look at men only, median income is $52k. And, again that ignores the one-quarter of this population having no income.

Sure this guy has issues, but falsely claiming he is a poor earner does not help the discussion.



DustyDog said:


> In the US, $60k income at 58 years old is below average.
> 
> DD


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Sometimes those government pensions are really good, something we cannot discount in this discussion.

Where I work now, someone who worked here his whole career can retire at 65 with 80% of income for like (with inflation adjustments).



Yeswecan said:


> Her H will get SS. Not enough to live on. He will probably get something from the state he has worked as a social worker. Conjecture he worked for the state. I don't know any social workers who work for any entity but the state. It may provide just enough. Her continued income will cover anything else.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Sally36 said:


> I have tried to discuss all this with him, but when it comes to this topic he just doesn't hear me at all. Thats why I agreed to counselling, maybe a neutral third party will be beneficial in helping us communicate, otherwise i am preparing myself mentally to leave, if he is willing to let me go over this I am probably better off.


I agree with fixing this or cutting him loose. This will delay and possibly prevent your retirement (or make it a financially strapped one).

It is his responsibility to make sure he is building an adequate retirement, at a minimum. And the age gap makes it harder, but that is what he chose.

Does he expect you to work until full retirement age (67, at which point he would be 90)? What if you have to retire early to care for him? If you get pregnant?

I simply could not behave like him. My GF is 15 years younger than me so I've had to give this some thought myself. Personally, I would not marry someone so young if I was not confident in my ability to provide.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Yeswecan said:


> I can see assisting a child with the first 4 years of college. My W and I have with our two daughters. Going beyond a BA is on their tab. I'm not one for financing a "career" student.
> 
> I think you need to talk to your H about the continuing college education. Priorities change. You and your H do not owe the daughter additional education to boot.


Agree that if you can't afford to pay for a child's tuition you should not. At the end of the day, the child can borrow tuition (and you don't have to spend a fortune to attend a quality school) but you are 100% on your own for retirement.

I agree with not financing a "career" student. But, I disagree with the implication that pursuing an advanced degree is what separates such a student from a supposedly more employment-oriented individual. I am an accounting and finance professional. It is a fact that you are at a disadvantage if you don't have an MBA degree or CPA license. In most of the USA you need five years of university study to qualify for licensure. Similarly, many other professions require more than 4 years of college (like teachers).


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

With his history of obviously poor money management skills and his current debt to income ration at the age of 58 I doubt he will ever get ahead, he is one of those that never "get it" and will struggle for the rest of his life. So OP you need to make some decisions. Do you love him enough to deal with the financial struggles that will be part of the rest of your life if you stay with him?

Honestly it doesn't matter if he turns over a new leaf today, he is too far under water. $40,000 loan, $10,000 credit debt, plus zero equity in the condo which means what? Let's say another $140,000. $190k of debt at 58 with only 10k in retirement is a financial death sentence in my eyes. And no savings? Seriously? 

I am sorry OP but staying with him will only drag you down. All the money you would need to focus on paying down his debt is money you could be saving for your own future. I should say money you NEED to be saving for your own future! I don't think it's worth you own financial security to fix his lifetime of poor financial planning.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

DTO said:


> This is probably not true, per Census Department stats. For adults 55-64 with an income (from whatever source (, $60k puts him in the top one-third (the median is $42k). If you factor in that 32% of people that age had no income, he is close to top 20%.
> 
> If you look at men only, median income is $52k. And, again that ignores the one-quarter of this population having no income.
> 
> Sure this guy has issues, but falsely claiming he is a poor earner does not help the discussion.


Your statistics are correct only if you do not restrict age. However, mine were also not correct. My error was in considering family incomes - those are much easier to obtain, since they're easier to collect. The stats come from actual income tax returns, and the convenient method of gathering the data is to look at total gross. Having now found a more detailed evaluation of individuals, rather than families, $60k puts him at the 65th percentile, not quite in the top 1/3.

The census dept does not have access to financial records - for accurate figures, go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. They've got downloadable Excel spreadsheets that let you slice and dice it any way you want to.

For the SS payout estimate, I used the SS formulas for bend points, noted that at $60k "Average Annual Lifetime inflation-adjusted contribution", he'd have just barely cleared the second bend point. So, his payout would be proportionately higher than a higher earner. Once you've cleared the second bend point, you only get 15% more payout for every dollar more lifetime annual average.

The BLS also has some nice articles about that quarter of the population with no income. The majority are so by choice, such as myself. "I've saved enough, and don't want to promote someone else's goals any more" and intentionally stay-at-home parents, that sort of thing. By the end of the most recent article, they were pretty much supporting the notion that involuntary unemployment truly is low right now, in the 5% range. However, it is severely concentrated in blue-collar jobs, which means those who never had much to begin with are the ones hurting the most.

Of course, blurring all this is Canada. Ten years ago, when I lived in Canada, the correlation factor was 1.25. That is, for a given lifestyle in the USA, if you wanted to replicate it in Canada, you had to multiply by 1.25. A US lifestyle that cost $50k in the US would cost $57.5k in Canada - in Canadian dollars. I'm sure exchange rates have changed since then!!!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Good morning.

I did restrict age and got my stats from the source you specified. I looked at tables for ages 55-64, all workers and male only, 2014 income numbers.



DustyDog said:


> DTO said:
> 
> 
> > This is probably not true, per Census Department stats. For adults 55-64 with an income (from whatever source (, $60k puts him in the top one-third (the median is $42k). If you factor in that 32% of people that age had no income, he is close to top 20%.
> ...


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Yes I can see helping with a Bachelor Degree but not beyond especially since he hasn't taken care of his own financial issues.. The professionals say that retirement is much more important than funding for college. Youngsters can always take out loans but much harder for older folks to do so. My nephew is attending dental school. His parents got him thru 4 years and told him the rest is your responsibility. My friend was dating a super nice guy BUT had to break it off after 3 years because he wouldn't stop funding his own adult children.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Yeswecan said:


> Her H will get SS. Not enough to live on.


It's already been determined that Father Time's "retirement plan" is to suck off his 37 year old wife's earnings because he's STILL got the mentality of a dumb-ass 19 year old who knows nothing about money. 

This fool will ALWAYS pander to his little 'princess.' Everyone keeps asking where all his money has gone in his 59 years, and I'd be willing to bet a real good portion of it has gone to his daughter. If you actually stay with him, don't be surprised when you're *STILL* footing the bill - 15 years from now - for his self-entitled, greedy, ungrateful, lazy daughter - a monster *he* created. She'll always 'need' something - a new car, a house down payment, a cruise, new furniture, medical expenses, a $100,000 wedding, her $700 electric bill paid before it's shut off - the list will be *ENDLESS*.

I've seen more than my share of ignorant parents STILL pandering to their adult kids who are well into their 30's, and are still demanding that mommy and daddy give them everything they want. That's what *your* future is going to be like. Well that, paying off all this guy's debt, and then being his nursemaid when his health starts failing.

I'd be SO freakin' gone.


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## AlaMakled (Apr 28, 2017)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> He really is in quite a pickle with being 58 and only $10,000 in retirement. And, debt on top of that. Yes, the daughter is a princess and he’s enabling her. He really isn’t doing her any favors. I’m always floored by parents now-a-days that pay for college quite frequently (even if they can’t afford it) and even after college expenses. It seems to be more of an expectation with millennials; entitlement at its finest. Being concerned about your marriage as a couple is valid. He likely will not be able to work in 10-15 years. So guess who will be supporting him and his retirement? It’ll be all you.


I agree


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