# Help: I don't know if I have a problem, or if I AM the problem.



## Iidoni (Mar 2, 2014)

Hi folks... I'm new here. I've just reached a point where I don't know what's going on and I'm hoping a bit of outside perspective can shed light on things.. you see, there's a controlling arsehole in my marriage... I just don't know which one of us it is.

The thing is that I've always been afraid that my wife was trying to control and minimize me. She flies into absolute rages over things and refuses to compromise. She says that she compromises over lots of things, and that I just don't notice, whereas I feel that the key things to compromise over are the things that we're screaming at each other about, rather than relatively unimportant things that we wouldn't have argued over anyway. 

Part of the problem, I suspect, is that we're both scared to give in case the other just takes everything. That's certainly my point of view. 

I always feel she's uncompromising, defensive and prone to rages, and she accuses me of the same. 

The problem is this: when I look at these "do you have a controlling partner?" lists on the internet, I always find myself noticing my own behavior in them. 

But it's so hard to trust her (or anyone else: yes, I know it's a problem). Either I'm being controlling, or she's gaslighting me into thinking I'm controlling in order to get control. If it's genuinely me, then I need to sort myself out and change my perspective... but what if it isn't? One of my problems is that I already feel that whenever we argue I always end up apologising and giving in: I gave up my best friend when she and I got married, we live in the part of [insert city here] that she wanted to live in, I work full time (and run my own business in my spare time) and she stays at home making a few hundred pounds a month from her art, making our split of the bills 80/20. 

On the other hand, she says similar things about me. I love her and I want to stay in the marriage. I've become a much more positive person because of her influence, and that's without her ever telling me that. It's just that our marriage brought a level of discipline and stability to my life that I've never known before. 

I had a rather chaotic and emotionally unstable upbringing, which has left me with all kinds of loose toys in the attic, which is another factor that I have to take into account. Again, she doesn't throw these things in my face... but there are things that I see myself throwing in her face.

I even do the thing of threatening to leave her really easily. Is it me? Am I the controlling one? I literally just don't know.


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## RoninJedi (Jun 22, 2013)

Based on what you've put here, I would say it's probably both of you. 

You said you've always been afraid she's trying to control you. Why would you marry someone you feel that way about in the first place?

You said "Part of the problem, I suspect, is that we're both scared to give in case the other just takes everything. That's certainly my point of view."

*BIG RED FLAG*

A marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not a competition. 

Without having more information, it's hard to say much, but I would definitely suggest the two of you getting into counseling. Begin to get to the root of these issues. If these fears of controlling are mutual, then you both should additionally seek individual counseling. As you've admitted that this is your own position, I would recommend counseling for yourself, as well.


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## Iidoni (Mar 2, 2014)

RoninJedi - lmao. Yeah, that was option three. Yes... everything you're saying basically rings true. 

I have enormous issues, and I'm the first to admit it... or at least I am these days. I grew up with one mentally ill, functional alchoholic parent, and another parent who was blind to their faults regardless of how many times they got drunk and called me names/shouted abuse at me. I was That Kid™ in the small town who can't go out because all the other kids taunt them and beat them up. I grew up before the internet, and so didn't have friendship with a real-life person of my own age until I was in my early 20s. 

On the other hand (and from your handle, I think you'll understand situation) my wife is was a single woman in Japan who didn't want to get married and become a housewife. She only got married in her 30s when she moved to the UK. She grew up in an incredibly difficult environment as well.

I think you're right, counseling – possible both together AND separately – might be the answer.


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## Iidoni (Mar 2, 2014)

Miss Froggie - the biggest thing might also be trust. We actually manage to talk about our points of view pretty calmly... but I can't trust that she means it, and that she's not just saying anything she can think of to win the argument. 

I know that sounds odd (and that's because it really is odd) but in the early days of our marriage she had a really bad habit of doing exactly that, and once I caught on that she was she doing it, I found it really hard to believe her when she gave her point of view about something. She says that she's changed now... and I suppose that she probably has... but I don't trust easily and it's really hard to get back to a point where I can give my trust back to her.

On the subject of the point scoring: yes, I totally agree. It's unhealthy, and it's all me.


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## Iidoni (Mar 2, 2014)

Miss Froggie - thank you. You really do have a point. There are a couple of free Marriage Counseling places in my area, and my other half has agreed to go to them. I just need to feel safe so that I can listen to her and trust what I'm hearing. I'm even prepared to believe that some of the things I'm seeing in her are me projecting my own fears and worst motivations... but I need that outside perspective from a neutral observer or I'll always have that paranoid voice in the back of my head asking, "Really? Are you sure?"

It might be that the paranoid voice is there to say and that I just have to find a way to live with it, but I want to believe there's another way.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It is hard when you are from different cultures. My dh is French, and I am American. But I doubt our differences are as difficult to bridge as yours with an Asian wife.

I would urge you both to be as completely open and honest as you can be, but is that possible with someone from her culture?

At the same time, if you are going to stay in the UK, she needs to adjust to the openness of the West.

You sound like you are willing to be honest with yourself, and you set a good example by taking responsibility for your actions. Combine that with MC, and I bet things will get much better.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You are an adult child of alcoholic(s) so based purely on that, I'd say yes, you're probably pretty controlling. You're also likely to get involved with others who are, too, though, so you're also probably right about your wife. 

Here's the kicker, though.... It's OFTEN the case with a spouse that we GAIN much more control if we stop trying to control. 

Let's get rid of that word entirely from your vocabulary. Try substituting the word "influence" instead (especially when you and your wife are going at things.) 

None of us are likely to say, "I want to control what happens here," but we might be willing to say, "I want to have influence on what happens here" without sounding like a jerk. And our partner's less likely to say no to everything we request because THEY will feel like a jerk if they don't give you some reasonable amount of influence, right? 

You'll still need to figure out how much influence is ok to allow another person. This might mean asking yourself "if I trust this person and get betrayed, how bad will the outcome really be?" Whenever we refuse to trust or we want to get our own way, we are making our "self" more important than the relationship. The only way a marriage can work happily is to reverse that and make the relationship more important than self. Obviously, if this is harmful to the self, then the relationship can't be a healthy one and should probably be let go.


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## Iidoni (Mar 2, 2014)

KathyBatesel said:


> You are an adult child of alcoholic(s)...(and so forth)


KathyBatesl - oooh... this is a hard one... but yes. You probably have a point.

The risk of faith/trust is the hardest. I think the worst thing my childhood left me with was the idea that any concession is a slippery slope: it's 100% or nothing. Rationally, I know this isn't the case, but I've lived a huge part of my life with manipulation, backsliding and enabling. My other half often says I have flashbacks, not in the literal sense, but because certain things happen and bam, I'm just back to certain incidents again as if nothing in between has ever happened.

I like the idea of getting rid of the word 'control.' 

My fear is pretty much exactly as you describe: one of the biggest fish to swallow is when we argue about things I've done or want to do (some activity I want to do, or have been doing that annoys her, or something I want to buy that she doesn't want me to get). I have a tendency to just say, "That's none of your business" and shut down into being aggressively defensive... and it's the hardest thing to let go of.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Iidoni said:


> The risk of faith/trust is the hardest. I think the worst thing my childhood left me with was the idea that any concession is a slippery slope: it's 100% or nothing. Rationally, I know this isn't the case, but I've lived a huge part of my life with manipulation, backsliding and enabling. My other half often says I have flashbacks, not in the literal sense, but because certain things happen and bam, I'm just back to certain incidents again as if nothing in between has ever happened.
> 
> *What you're saying here is "It is hard for me to allow myself to feel vulnerable." Yet when you avoid that vulnerability, you give those unhealthy people CONTROL over your life TODAY! It means THEY are strong, while you are not strong "enough" to make decisions for yourself.
> 
> ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> :wtf: It is absolutely possible with someone of ANY culture and ANY background to learn methods of better communication with their spouse. The MC will teach you how to adapt and work better together. The only thing that makes someone unable to learn is if they are UNWILLING to listen to the advice and practise the skills until they are improving things. A relationship between two people with different cultures can have issues due to these differences and you can address those in MC too, but to suggest it is impossible because of her culture is IMO quite racist.


Uh oh. I am sorry, MF. I did not mean to sound racist in any way. We had an exchange student from Japan last year, and he was very shy. I thought it might be hard for a woman from Japan to adapt. Please forgive.


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## Iidoni (Mar 2, 2014)

KathyBatesel said:


> *What you're saying here is "It is hard for me to allow myself to feel vulnerable." Yet when you avoid that vulnerability, you give those unhealthy people CONTROL over your life TODAY! It means THEY are strong, while you are not strong "enough" to make decisions for yourself.
> 
> In order to recover from the lessons of your childhood, it'll be important for you to ask yourself often, "How much vulnerability would I be risking if I did things this other way?" "What is the worst thing that can happen if I CHOOSE to let this other person make this decision instead of me?" "How can I show this person that I value them and want to cooperate?" *


I really like your ideas, in fact, inspired by your advice I asked myself the following series of questions:

*Question:* Why do I get so angry when she objects to certain things?

*Answer:* Because I feel she's unfairly trying to curtail my liberty and control me. These things don't affect her.

*Question:* Why is that bad?

*Answer:* because being controlled by someone else is bad.
*
Question:* Why?

*Answer:* because it is.

*Question:* Why?

*Answer:* because it is.

_*Repeat process recursively until the heat death of the universe*_

I honestly cannot get further than that, and the physical sensation of anger and horror is ridiculous. 

Yeah. Therapy time. I honestly do not want this mental block to be why my marriage ends.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

What I get out of this is that you two don't trust each other, so neither of you is willing to be vulnerable. Serious MC is in order here. Maybe it would help if you kept a log, in full view of both of you and that you both contribute to, of what each of you is compromising on. I'd suspect neither of you gives the other enough credit. I think it's encouraging that you can admit you do it too, that means you can be worked with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Iidoni said:


> *Answer:* Because I feel she's unfairly trying to curtail my liberty and control me. These things don't affect her.
> 
> *Question:* Why is that bad?
> 
> ...


See if this helps at all: 

"Being controlled by someone else is bad." Why? 

"Because it means I am weak and not making my own choices." 

"What if you chose to make a choice to be cooperative?" 

"Then I'm not being controlled, maybe?" 

I *do* think it's important to figure something out, though. You say that your perception is that she tries to curtail your liberty on things that don't affect her. If this is true, and not just your opinion that it doesn't affect her, then you probably have good reason to feel worried about cooperating. This is where good boundaries (and using them appropriately) comes in. 

How compatible are the two of you in general?


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