# Is it possible to avoid infidelity in this situation?



## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

My husband does not like sex. When we were dating, it was a long distance relationship--we lived about 90 miles apart. We did get to spend several weekends a month together and during that period we often had sex. He seemed to enjoy it and want it. But once we were married and living together it just stopped. Literally by the end of the first month of living in the same house he had stop wanting sex. 

He would try to have sex once a month, mainly to have children. I do not know why I stupidly agreed to have children with this man. At the time I was young and foolish, being in my twenties I thought it would help our relationship. Now I see all it did was make it harder for me to leave him. I wonder if this was his reason for wanting children all along; to keep me at his side?

Anyways this has been an ongoing problem for our entire married life. We have been to therapy, we have had many, many talks about and it has come down to one thing. My husband has said over and over and over that he simply does not want sex and that he feels sex is NOT an fundamental part of marriage and he can not change and I should be happy with that. 

I want to leave so badly, but I have no where to go. I have been searching for a job/career to help make it so that I can support myself and the two children. But nothing has turned up. I am working, but it is not enough. My husband makes about 30k. If I was to leave him I would not get much more than about $600 a month in child support. I have talked to lawyers and this is what they tell me. The average rent where I live is $800 for a 1 bedroom apartment. We pay nearly 1000 a month in rent. Me leaving him at this time means myself and the kids living in public housing where there is gangs and drugs. I can not subject my children to that. I have no family that is willing to help me. The last time I kind of brought this up, they made it perfectly clear that the only reason they would help me was if my husband was cheating or being physically abusive. 

So what am I to do? I want so badly to feel desired, to feel loved by a man. I want to have a man who wants me, to feel strong protective arms around me. To find me desirable, and not be something to check off of his "to do" list. Which is my husband's very words about sex. It's something he has to do, and not want to do.

If I find a lover to fulfill that need for me, everyone thinks I'm the bad person, the evil woman who has betrayed her husband's trust. That I'm to blame. Why doesn't anyone see that he has betrayed my trust? 

Some days it is all I can do to keep from dressing up and going out to some single's bar and finding some guy who is willing to give me some sex, someone who is willing and wants to be in my arms. Why is that so evil when I have a husband he refuses it to me?


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I'm not really sure what to tell you. 

My boyfriend is an over the road truck driver, and only home once a month, so that's the only time we have sex. I wish we could have more, but like your husband, I don't feel it's the most important part of our relationship. There's more to us than just sex. There's love, and shared dreams for the future, and conversation, and being there for each other, among other things. 

Obviously, you're not wrong here either. Sex is important to you, and your needs aren't being met right now. Does he do anything to make you feel loved and protected? Does he show physical affection at all? I mean, if it's just the sex act itself that is lacking, there's always taking care of yourself to release that tension. But if general affection and feeling loved is also missing, then it's not that simple. 

I also have to wonder, if it is general affection and feeling loved that's missing, perhaps you're citing sex as the problem, but the real problem is that you feel lonely and somewhat abandoned and that's why you feel this urge to seek out someone else? And if that's the case, then you need to change how you're approaching him with this. You need to go to him, and tell him you've realized it's not sex that's the problem, but instead that you need X, Y and Z to feel loved and secure, and that you're not feeling like you're getting those things. If he disagrees, ask him to give you some examples of how he's doing them. You might also consider counseling to help you guys really communicate and try to find some solutions to this.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Yes. 

An affair is not an option only a weak selfish choice you make alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

atruckersgirl said:


> I'm not really sure what to tell you.
> 
> My boyfriend is an over the road truck driver, and only home once a month, so that's the only time we have sex. I wish we could have more, but like your husband, I don't feel it's the most important part of our relationship. There's more to us than just sex. There's love, and shared dreams for the future, and conversation, and being there for each other, among other things.
> 
> ...


I have approach him this way. That to me the sex is part of needing to feel loved and secure. He feels that all I need, or what anyone other woman needs to feel secure is a working man who pays the bills. That is is unfair of me to ask for than that. That is all he can do for me and he thinks it is selfish and unfair to expect more. 

But I also feel that during our dating he was lying in a sense. He never let on during the year we dated that he did not like sex and was planing on stopping sex once I was securely tied to the relationship. He has told me that even when we were dating he didn't like sex all that much and was only doing it because I expected it and if he didn't I would not have stayed with him. How is that not being false?


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

RWB said:


> Yes.
> 
> An affair is not an option only a weak selfish choice you make alone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You think that having a spouse who refuses sex, affection, and emotional closeness is me making this choice alone? That his unwillingness for physical and emotional intimacy should have no bearing on our marriage? That he bears no responsibly in this relationship or it's outcome?


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

RWB said:


> You have the choice. You do not have to be unfaithful. Tell your husband that he has emotionally abandon you. If he is unwilling to change or work on it then divorce. You will find no true love in an affair, just another host of problems for a few hours of sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I want a divorce, badly. But how, when in 2 and a half years of job searching I have only been able to get a part time job as a cashier. I have a college degree in elementary education. Since 2008 the schools in my state has not be hiring hardly at all. I know people in the HR department in my local school district, they are getting 300+ resumes for every open job. I have had these HR people put my resume in the stack that goes to local principals, they have been told to not send out any resume to schools that does not have at least 5+ years of teaching experience. Where does that leave me? 

I have been looking into other areas. I have been actively seeking jobs in other related professions. I have tutored on the side as well. But with a disabled child who needs OT/Speech and now his doctors are telling I need to put him back into PT as well--and a second child--where am I going to get the money to support myself and two children? I just cannot up and leave because my husband is unwilling to work on the marriage. This is my dilemma. 

This is what I go around and around in my head with: it is moral of me to subject my children who have always had a rather middle class, even if it is on the lower middle class, to a life of poverty, to upsetting thier stable home life--one who is mentally disabled/physically disabled and would not understand it--because I have an un-loving husband? If we move out and into the project they will not be able to go their goods schools. My son who receives support at his current school, who has teachers who have known him since he was 6 years old, will have to go to a school in a bad neighborhood who will not have the funds to provide him with the services he gets at his current school. Believe me I have a background in education. I student taught at inner city schools I know what they are like. 

If it was just myself alone I would have been out of this marriage even if it meant living in the projects. But how can I justify that with two children?


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Maybe your husband has a low testosterone level. Have him go to a doctor and have his levels tested. If they are low, he can take weekly shots to raise his levels. He'll want to f*ck everything that moves!
Another possibility is that he's gay. If you can exclude that, then maybe it's something in his upbringing. Counselling may help that.
Lastly, I would sit down with him and tell him that you have been having thoughts about having your needs met elsewhere. This may be the wakeup call he needs to fix things. If he says "great, go f*ck others, then you would have his blessing". Goodluck.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

sailorgirl :

At the end of the day you have few options, you either separate from your husband, have an affair or resolve the marriage problems.

You may think an affair is the answer, it is not, you will destroy your own well being, your children's view of you, your relationship with your family and friends and most likely your marriage. Everything you have written that you do not want to lose you will lose in an affair and have a world of hurt to go with it.

If you feel a separation is the only route, start planning for it. Be direct with your husband, men do not understand indirect conversations. Lay your cards on the table if he values the marriage he will change, if not plan to move on. 

Your existing financial and schooling issues will be minor compared to the pressure and guilt of an affair. 

If you are pushed , the easy route today is to separate, take your time it may occur over a few years at least you then have a goal you are working to.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> You think that having a spouse who refuses sex, affection, and emotional closeness is me making this choice alone? That his unwillingness for physical and emotional intimacy should have no bearing on our marriage? That he bears no responsibly in this relationship or it's outcome?


No one is 'making' you make a choice. No one can EVER 'make' you make a choice. Ever. A choice is something _you_ do because you are human. All of your reasons for why you want to cheat would become excuses, should you actually cheat. Right now, they are facts that you must consider in order to make a decision. Preferably the right one.

The question is not, "Is my spouse, who has abandoned my marriage, making me choose to cheat on him?' It is, "Is cheating the right thing to do or not?"

And concurrent with that: what would the choice of cheating be teaching your children? You claim to be a teacher: surely you must understand that an adult doing immoral things teaches children that these things are acceptable! 

So the real question is: are you a person who is willing to do the wrong thing to get what they want, and the kind of person who is willing to teach their children to do the wrong thing to get what they want!



> I want a divorce, badly. But how, when in 2 and a half years of job searching I have only been able to get a part time job as a cashier


The courts will set up deferred, or even use other people's money (taxes) to fund a divorce. When you file, include child support. Even if your 'ex' husband only made minimum wage, child support payments are substantial. 

My opinion, though, is that you have already found someone and are already cheating: your 'reasons' sound more like fog than the real thing.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

As others have said, you say you can't afford to separate or divorce. But what are you going to do if you're found out? How supportive will your family be in that case? How will you afford to live on your own then?

C


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> No one is 'making' you make a choice. No one can EVER 'make' you make a choice. Ever. A choice is something _you_ do because you are human. All of your reasons for why you want to cheat would become excuses, should you actually cheat. Right now, they are facts that you must consider in order to make a decision. Preferably the right one.
> 
> The question is not, "Is my spouse, who has abandoned my marriage, making me choose to cheat on him?' It is, "Is cheating the right thing to do or not?"
> 
> ...


I have seen two separate divorce lawyers--they felt the most I could get would be about $600 a month in child support. I owe $400 in student loans a month. My husband owes $4k in student loans from 7 years ago and never once made any sort of payment on them. He does not pay his bills. Even if the court awarded me $600 a month he wont pay it. 

I have not actually cheated, but I have in many ways I have become more emotionally detached from him. I want out. I want to be able to support my children without any help from him. I am, though, at the point where I don't really know if I could resist an affair if the situation presented itself. And yes, I have told him this. All he said was, if you want out file for a divorce. I asked him, where would the kids and I go? He said it wasn't his problem.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Assume you do not start an affair and your husband is not going to adapt or change, you should sit down and work on a plan for yourself. Decide what your ultimate goal is and work to secure yourself financially, life will not always be kind however if you persevere with a clear head and determination you will secure your family .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

One of the reasons I am having trouble with the idea of leaving the area where I currently live is that I have spent so many years building a life for my son. He is autistic and has special needs. There are resources here that I have worked for. He is 14 and is currently starting a program that will help him become a more independent adult. It will provide job training and independent living skills such as living with 2 or 3 other young men who have similar needs, and having a counselor to keep tabs on him as well as myself. 

My sister is a teacher up in the Appalachian mountains of Tennessee. She maybe able help me get a job there, but there are no programs there like this. Her school is pre-k-8th. They have 500 students in all. There have no resources to serve disable children. Children in that area who have special needs spend 1 and half hour bus ride into Knoxville or Nashville. And any program like he is in now we would have find one, and then spend several years on yet another waitig list. 

I think if my son was a normal child I would have left long ago. But he is not. I feel so chained and tied down. 

Sometimes I’m so stressed out and angry, dejected and sad that I want for him to get angry at me and just kick us out. That way the decision would be made for us. That I wouldn’t have this pressure cooker of a marriage life, KWIM? I feel so much pressure to keep things together that some days I just want to get in the car and never come back. Ever. Why can he not see that? Everyone talks about this “fog” that the cheating spouse is in, but what about the “fog” that the noncheating spouse is in. That somehow it is ok for him to do what he is doing? Why does he get to smell like a rose bush all the while when I even think of cheating and I’m some sort of horrible monster?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have seen two separate divorce lawyers--they felt the most I could get would be about $600 a month in child support. I owe $400 in student loans a month. My husband owes $4k in student loans from 7 years ago and never once made any sort of payment on them. He does not pay his bills. Even if the court awarded me $600 a month he wont pay it.


If the court declares support, he would have no choice: in essence, failure to pay would result in his wages being and taxes being garnished. 

He is right - it is not his problem where you go if you divorce, but he is required (both morally and legally) to support the kids. 

As Eli-Zor writes above, you need to figure out what you are going to do. Creating excuses for 'why you cannot' do 'X, Y, and Z' are a waste of time. People take this step all the time. 

It isn't a problem of 'cannot' - it is a problem of 'will not' - and hence, it is advisable that you sit down and work this through. 

And stay away from infidelity: that would put your husband on the moral high ground. This is, of course, assuming your statements reflect reality and are not justifications to cheat!


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Assume you do not start an affair and your husband is not going to adapt or change, you should sit down and work on a plan for yourself. Decide what your ultimate goal is and work to secure yourself financially, life will not always be kind however if you persevere with a clear head and determination you will secure your family .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am working on an exit strategy. I’m working out how much I would need to make in order to cover the bills, what sort of job, ect… But it’s so hard. Not just the finical aspect of it. The emotional loss, the feeling of being abandon by my spouse, the lack of real intimacy—it’s so hard to deal with. I feel so stretched, and fragile. 

Then I have such doubts about my ability. I mean I choose a real loser of a husband, then to top it off I stupidly agreed to have kids, thinking it would fix things. I’ve made such a mess of my life—how can I expect to make it right again?


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> If the court declares support, he would have no choice: in essence, failure to pay would result in his wages being and taxes being garnished.
> 
> *He is right - it is not his problem where you go if you divorce, but he is required (both morally and legally) to support the kids. *
> As Eli-Zor writes above, you need to figure out what you are going to do. Creating excuses for 'why you cannot' do 'X, Y, and Z' are a waste of time. People take this step all the time.
> ...


I have so many divoriced friends, mothers that is, who have never gotten what they were legally awarded. Of all the single moms I know only one gets what she is owed every month. A close friend of mine's ex-husband makes 120k a year. She is suspose to get 4k a month. She is lucky to get 4k a year. She has tried all sorts of ways to get the money from him, but to this date--3 years since the divorce--nothing has happend. Her case is in back-log. So it is a real concern for me. I have to be able to suppor the kids without help from him. And the sort of support I have to provide is not just a home for my children. My son needs much more than what "normal" childern need.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Everyone talks about this “fog” that the cheating spouse is in, but what about the “fog” that the noncheating spouse is in. That somehow it is ok for him to do what he is doing? Why does he get to smell like a rose bush all the while when I even think of cheating and I’m some sort of horrible monster?


The problem is that he is not here, and as such, is not available for data: reasons, excuses, etc. And while it is certainly true that both spouses are often in a fog, the one that justifies cheating is one that gets addressed here most often. 

On top of that, you are looking for an exit, not a way to fix your relationship, so there really isn't reason to discuss his problem, is there? If you had intended to fix the marriage, rather than looking for people to support your idea of cheating, the advice would be a whole lot different.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have so many divoriced friends, mothers that is, who have never gotten what they were legally awarded.


How many of them have special needs children?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

It is called patience, lots of patience, each day will take you closer to your goal. Put a little aside each month eventually it will be enough to move on. The work will come again this is patience, keep looking, perhaps change where you are looking try an admin job. Sometimes you have to take a slight detour on the journey then when ready step back onto the original route.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> How many of them have special needs children?


3. Two of them are moms in our autism support group and one is a leader in my girl scout service unit. She has a daughter with leukemia. None of them gets what they are owed. They get some, and as long as the ex is making some sort of payment then the courts don't seem to care much.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> The problem is that he is not here, and as such, is not available for data: reasons, excuses, etc. And while it is certainly true that both spouses are often in a fog, the one that justifies cheating is one that gets addressed here most often.
> 
> *On top of that, you are looking for an exit, not a way to fix your relationship, so there really isn't reason to discuss his problem, is there? If you had intended to fix the marriage,* rather than looking for people to support your idea of cheating, the advice would be a whole lot different.


I have tried for many, many years to fix this. But how can I when my husband has pretty much come out and said he refuses to change I just have to deal with it. I have told him how much it hurts, how painful it is. He response is that I should leave if it hurts, but I can not expect him to change.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> It is called patience, lots of patience, each day will take you closer to your goal. Put a little aside each month eventually it will be enough to move on. The work will come again this is patience, keep looking, perhaps change where you are looking try an admin job. Sometimes you have to take a slight detour on the journey then when ready step back onto the original route.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you. I know. It's just some days it feels so much harder than others. This has just been such a horrible week. I usually have a somewhat good support group--mainly other moms with autistic children, but I have never discussed my married life with them. So sometimes it just builds up and I have no real release valve in this area like I do with other areas of stress. 

Even though I am currently part time I did just get a 6 month evaluation at my current job and they are seriously considering moving me up to a front line position. It is not a lot more, but it isn't something that most part timers do not get offered.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

One step at a time one day at a time. Good things come to those who wait, be strong for yourself and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have tried for many, many years to fix this. But how can I when my husband has pretty much come out and said he refuses to change I just have to deal with it. I have told him how much it hurts, how painful it is. He response is that I should leave if it hurts, but I can not expect him to change.


Please note, I am not trying to be argumentative here - I do care about people, and my main goal, when I discuss these issues, is the personal growth of the person to whom I'm speaking.

Now, since you have lists and lists of excuses why you "can't" do things (including finding places where it doesn't work for others, and inducing that onto yourself), the main goal is simple: 

At some point, you will need to start thinking of what you will and will not put up with - and the steps you will take, if "X,Y, and/or Z" should happen (the things which cross your boundaries). Unless you are willing to actually take risks, to make choices, take personal responsibility, and simply do what you must, you will remain where you are: immobile and impeded by all the things you have convinced yourself are keeping you from doing what you need to do.

The main issue (with regard to your thread here) is that cheating on your husband will not solve these problems. Instead, it will add it's own set of problems to the ones you already have, thus making life even more difficult than it is.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Please note, I am not trying to be argumentative here - I do care about people, and my main goal, when I discuss these issues, is the personal growth of the person to whom I'm speaking.
> 
> Now, since you have lists and lists of excuses why you "can't" do things (including finding places where it doesn't work for others, and inducing that onto yourself), the main goal is simple:
> 
> ...


I'm not saying that cheating is going to make things better. I'm saying that I'm furious that so many spouses and other people think it is ok for to refuse sex. It grates my nerves that my husband sees no wrong in expecting me to give up sex for him. It grates my nerves that I'm seen as the big meany because I want what most spouses want. Oh noesy I want a sex life with my spouse. How horrilbe is that? 

I know I should leave, but I can not just up and walk out with children. I have to be secure. It is morally wrong of me to subject them to that without just cause. I have to think of thier futures. But knowing what I have to do does not make it any easier. 

I come in here to blow off a little steam, and you want to shake your finger at me and tell me that I'm making excuses. I'm not making excuses I'm facing reality. Yeah, sure, we could leave tommorrow. But where would I go? I have $200 till Friday. And then on Friday all I will get would be another $150. What sort of life can I start with that? Maybe I could get a crumy hotel room for a week. Where do I go from there? Public hosing across town? up root my children, take them from good solid schools where my son is getting his needs taken care of and put them into bad schools where he would not get his needs met? Have them live in crime and drug filled gettos? All because I'm unhappy? That is reality. It is not an excuse.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I come in here to blow off a little steam, and you want to shake your finger at me and tell me that I'm making excuses. I'm not making excuses I'm facing reality. Yeah, sure, we could leave tommorrow. But where would I go? I have $200 till Friday. And then on Friday all I will get would be another $150. What sort of life can I start with that? Maybe I could get a crumy hotel room for a week. Where do I go from there? Public hosing across town? up root my children, take them from good solid schools where my son is getting his needs taken care of and put them into bad schools where he would not get his needs met? Have them live in crime and drug filled gettos? All because I'm unhappy? That is reality. It is not an excuse.


I inferred above (when I said that "...I am not trying to be argumentative here...") that I am not 'shaking' my finger. These are excuses, whether you want to use them or not - that isn't the issue. Any time a person offers a reason for why they "can't" do something, it is an excuse. It 'can' be done, even if it is not comfortable, or acceptable, or even desirable.

Any of the options you offer above: Cheap motel, public housing, whatever, are still options - even if you don't like the ideas. They must still be listed in your table of options, no?

And you are dead on when you ask "All because I'm unhappy?" My argument there would be that happiness should _never, ever_ be the prime reason to do anything. 

But this leads to the exact point that both Eli-Zor and I have been making:

You are at a crisis point: what are you going to do? And our suggestion is to sit down and write out, and then consider _all_ of your choices (immoral or not).

It's ironic that you bring up the idea of 'immorality' here:



> It is morally wrong of me to subject them to that without just cause.


...while at the same time you write:



> Some days it is all I can do to keep from dressing up and going out to some single's bar and finding some guy who is willing to give me some sex, someone who is willing and wants to be in my arms. *Why is that so evil when I have a husband he refuses it to me? *


It may well be that you define 'just cause' differently than I do (does your desire to have sex 'justify' an affair)? I doubt you think that - but this is the exact reason why it is so useful to do a careful inventory of ALL your options, reasons and needs - as well as a list of things you are willing to sacrifice to get what you want. 



> I'm saying that I'm furious that so many spouses and other people think it is ok for to refuse sex. It grates my nerves that my husband sees no wrong in expecting me to give up sex for him. It grates my nerves that I'm seen as the big meany because I want what most spouses want. Oh noesy I want a sex life with my spouse. How horrilbe is that?


This is a valid complaint - and one on which I may hold a rather rare view. A person who refuses to meet their spouse's needs is one who has abandoned the marriage. In this case, divorce is an acceptably moral choice (and I speak this as a _very_ orthodox Christian). It is NOT horrible to believe that you should have a sex life with your spouse - from my viewpoint your body belongs to him, and his belongs to you, and to withhold sex is as immoral as cheating.

Note that I say _as immoral as_... A choice to stray is JUST as wrong - and two wrongs don't make a right. Nor does a wrong give you a right to respond with evil (just to play with words). 

So again: patiently write out a list of every single option, every single excuse, every single need, etc... - and then work on being able to define and express them as clearly as if you were talking about the weather. When you do that, your answers will jump out at you. 

My reason for writing in the style I have is to raise your awareness of the issue so that there are no stones left unturned. A divorce and an affair are both insidiously harmful to children, and therefore must be considered carefully before approached.


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## CktBridge (Jan 11, 2011)

My situation started about 15 years ago. My wife also essentially lied about her own preferences for intimacy and sexual relations. 

I was in the military and met her about 1.5 years prior to going overseas. We were friends for awhile and decided to start dating after a few months. During the next 6 months we had the usual surge of sex at the beginning of a relationship. Within 2 weeks of getting married and a positive pregnancy test she decided that was enough and the intimacy stopped (sex, closeness, etc.). Being young and stupid I didn’t really question this. We had kid #1 and I then went overseas. On my return she wanted sex and intimacy again and I thought all was good…Of course 3-4 months later she was pregnant and everything stopped. Since she didn’t want more kids it has been that way since.

I did try counseling. Many long talks also. Essentially it boiled down to her not being interested in sex. She also admitted I was a convenient way for her to feel safe and have kids. She also believed that I should be happy with the whole arrangement.

My reasons for staying were different since I made all the money. She is a good mother. I have access to be a father and she has promised to use the courts to essentially take them away if I go. Knowing how divorce courts treat men not to mention the problems divorce causes kids I have stayed. I still care for her also. This doesn’t mean that I am happy.

I understand the need to blow off steam (regularly). If you are truly ready to leave you can take the good advice of some of the other posters even if it feels like “shaking a finger at you”. Exploring your options logically helps you see opportunities that you might miss. 

One person I have been listening to for the last couple of years is “Dan Savage”. He does a podcast and has a web site. He has explored our problem from many angles when answering people’s questions. I don’t always agree with him but he has an interesting point of view.

I do thoroughly understand the needs you described in your first post on the thread. None of them are evil. All of them are desirable preferably from your spouse if you still love him. 

I realized many years ago it helps to understand it is not your fault as long as you are not doing something to reject him. I know I kept looking at myself for what was wrong with me (still do sometimes). It took me a very long time to figure out there was nothing I could change since it was the other person creating the situation.

If you decide after looking at it from all angles to stay in the marriage and have an affair be prepared for the worst before you do it. This of course means making lists and trying to figure out what you would do…..

Hope this helps.


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## jamesa (Oct 22, 2010)

sailorgirl said:


> I come in here to blow off a little steam, and you want to shake your finger at me and tell me that I'm making excuses.


You should realise that there are people on this forum who are victims of infidelity and there are also some who hold very conservative religious views and will make comments from that perspective. Don't worry about it, you have done nothing wrong and you have every right to be frustrated.

Sexual intimacy is your right within a marriage and if your husband is not able to hold up his side of the marriage contract you are right to explore your options.

Good luck, I hope you find a way out of this predicament.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

jamesa said:


> You should realise that there are people on this forum who are victims of infidelity and there are also some who hold very conservative religious views and will make comments from that perspective. Don't worry about it, you have done nothing wrong and you have every right to be frustrated.
> 
> Sexual intimacy is your right within a marriage and if your husband is not able to hold up his side of the marriage contract you are right to explore your options.
> 
> Good luck, I hope you find a way out of this predicament.


It just frustrates me that over all in society people take this harsh view on people leave their marriage when there is no psychical abuse, no financial ruin or cheating. If I leave tomorrow I'd catch so much flack from friends and family--they'd see me as some sort of callus selfish woman for leaving what they consider a "good man." Never mind the lack of emotional and physical intimacy. I would be considered a home-wrecker. 

As for infidelity, I have known women who were like my husband, didn't like sex, was not interested in it and refused sex to their husbands more often than not. Then they act surprised when they find out he is cheating or when he files for divorce. I hate to say it, but I feel very little sympathy for spouses like that. Maybe that makes me callous, but I know personally how soul crushing it is to be on the receiving end of such treatment.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> It just frustrates me that over all in society people take this harsh view on people leave their marriage when there is no psychical abuse, no financial ruin or cheating. If I leave tomorrow I'd catch so much flack from friends and family--they'd see me as some sort of callus selfish woman for leaving what they consider a "good man." Never mind the lack of emotional and physical intimacy. I would be considered a home-wrecker


I think the unfortunate part of this stems in part from how often this happens. The divorce rate is far higher that the actual percentage of people who are suffering an complete lack of emotional and/or physical intimacy - and even less for marriages where BOTH emotional and physical intimacy are missing. 

By far most divorces occur exactly because people are 'selfish' (by that I mean whose sole interest is in their own wants). The claims are quite often 'lack of emotional intimacy,' etc., but in reality the problem is that these people are not committed to the marriage, they are committed to themselves.

Does this mean that you, Sailorgirl, are one of these people? There is no way to tell.This is not an accusation, but a statement of fact. There is not enough data for anyone here to make any sort of decision about such a thing. In order to do that, we would need to hear your husband's side of the story, rather than your claims of what he says or does. 

However, it is very easy to point out the problems that divorce causes, and also to point out that if any of the situation you now face is in part due to behaviors or, more importantly, thought patterns, that you now have - unless those are dealt with, the problem will follow you from relationship to relationship.

In any event - a marriage is first and foremost a commitment to another person. No matter how that person treats you, the commitment YOU made is not nullified (theirs may be!) Breaking that commitment through cheating is wrong, and causes more problems than it solves - in fact, it compounds the existing problems. Doing things the right way _should_ (I rarely use that word) be how everyone proceeds. Hence, the advice is to avoid cheating, and either fix or leave your marriage, before you start seeking physical stimulation from someone else. 

Personally, I am still not convinced that your claims about your husband here are not simply the standard fog that all wandering spouses use to justify an affair. I've heard the _exact same claims_ from way too many people to simply assume that this is the case here - especially without input from your husband! 

My plea is still the same: list every single option you have, write the pros and cons to accompany each item - and use that to make an informed decision about what you will do - and then immediately 'get to it'. Hanging around experiencing anger and frustration day after day is harmful.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> ....
> 
> My plea is still the same: list every single option you have, write the pros and cons to accompany each item - and use that to make an informed decision about what you will do - and then immediately 'get to it'. Hanging around experiencing anger and frustration day after day is harmful.


You seem to be laboring under this notion that I have not done this, that I have not sought counseling and professional advice. 

I have. I have made list, I have written out pros and cons, I am working on an exit strategy. I have talked to more than one divorce lawyer; I have inquired into the services available to me as a single parent; and I am constantly looking for a better job. Just because I'm doing all those things does not make the situation any better. 

I'm sorry, I am not going to take my children form a nice middle class background, nice schools and a safe neighborhood and force them to live in some crime filled project, go to bad schools and live in an unsafe neighborhood just to fulfill _your_ idea of what I should do.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> It just frustrates me that over all in society people take this harsh view on people leave their marriage when there is no psychical abuse, no financial ruin or cheating. If I leave tomorrow I'd catch so much flack from friends and family--they'd see me as some sort of callus selfish woman for leaving what they consider a "good man." Never mind the lack of emotional and physical intimacy. I would be considered a home-wrecker.
> 
> As for infidelity, I have known women who were like my husband, didn't like sex, was not interested in it and refused sex to their husbands more often than not. Then they act surprised when they find out he is cheating or when he files for divorce. I hate to say it, but I feel very little sympathy for spouses like that. Maybe that makes me callous, but I know personally how soul crushing it is to be on the receiving end of such treatment.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't think society "as a whole" takes a harsh view of someone who divorces when their spouse has abandoned them. I think society takes a harsh view on people who have problems in their marriage and then rather than doing the right thing and ending the marriage, they turn to someone outside the marriage and cheat. 

For example, you say that some of your issues are sexual abandonment and emotional abuse, and I'm willing to think for the sake of this discussion that what you're saying is the truth. So if you spoke right up to him and said "You've abandoned me sexually and abused me emotionally, and if you are not willing to change, I need you to know that I am not willing to stay married" ... and he STILL refused to even try. And if you then went to your own personal counseling just to be sure there were no personal issues of your own that you need to work on. And after doing all those things to make sure you've taken care of all the issues on your side that you can fix, you were to leave the marriage....I doubt society would blame or judge you at all! You were abandoned and you did the right thing by doing all that you could to save it! 

But society DOES tend to get cranky about cheating For example, in your case, if you are sexually abandoned and emotionally abused--AND YOU TURN TO ANOTHER MAN for the affection and loyalty that you should be getting from your husband--then that's infidelity and that is where society gets pissed. I doubt there's a single person here--Tanelorn included--who would blame or judge you at all if you worked on your marriage all you could and he still refused, and if you worked on yourself with no stone unturned and ended up leaving...because he left long ago! The issue is when you use his promise breaking to excuse or justify YOUR OWN promise breaking. That doesn't fly. If he breaks his promise (which, if we assume what you're saying is true, he is) that does not give you a reason to break YOUR promise and cheat. 

Soooooo...long story short if you went to leave the marriage I doubt if anyone here would say a word, if you leave faithfully. If you turn to another man for "friendship" and "support" and "encouragement" while blaming your husband for your choice to turn to someone else--THAT is what we say :nono: to. That's not cool. So be faithful and honest while you are married, do your best to work on yourself and work it out with him, and if he refuses and you divorce him for leaving you--that's your choice made with a clean conscience. Okay?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

sailorgirl said:


> I want to leave so badly, but I have no where to go. I have been searching for a job/career to help make it so that I can support myself and the two children. But nothing has turned up.


Careers don't "turn up". You have to go GET them, and it takes tenacity that goes beyond looking in the jobs section of the paper. Thoughts

- Go to the library and get a cope of What Color is Your Parachute.
- Go to the department of labor in your state and get advice on jobs, training programs, ANY resources ... That is their job. Shake their tree.
- Research community colleges with jobs training programs....






> So what am I to do? I want so badly to feel desired, to feel loved by a man. I want to have a man who wants me, to feel strong protective arms around me. To find me desirable, and not be something to check off of his "to do" list. Which is my husband's very words about sex. It's something he has to do, and not want to do.


My husband wants touch. I don't. I don't give it to him because I "have to". I give it to him because I love him, and it is important that he is happy. Genuinely happy. Your husband does not seem to share that goal by telling you you "should" be happy. (Have I mentioned how much I think the word should be stricken from the marital dictionary?) 

He doesn't really have the right to tell you what should or should not make you happy. So you have to decide:
- Do I drag his butt back into counseling yet AGAIN (I am pretty sure you said you have done that) and see if he really WANTS to try to make ME happy
- Or do I quietly plot a long term exit strategy.

Seriously, cheating is a loser's way out. 



> If I find a lover to fulfill that need for me, everyone thinks I'm the bad person, the evil woman who has betrayed her husband's trust. That I'm to blame. Why doesn't anyone see that he has betrayed my trust?


Well he didn't really. He has a different value system than you do. And you both chose to get married and pursue children too soon before you really understood what that meant. The fact that you assumed a larger role of sex in marriage than he did does not really cross into the realm of breaking trust. It stinks... but there it is.

Good luck. Sounds like a drag.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't think society "as a whole" takes a harsh view of someone who divorces when their spouse has abandoned them. I think society takes a harsh view on people who have problems in their marriage and then rather than doing the right thing and ending the marriage, they turn to someone outside the marriage and cheat.
> 
> For example, you say that some of your issues are sexual abandonment and emotional abuse, and I'm willing to think for the sake of this discussion that what you're saying is the truth. So if you spoke right up to him and said "You've abandoned me sexually and abused me emotionally, and if you are not willing to change, I need you to know that I am not willing to stay married" ... and he STILL refused to even try. And if you then went to your own personal counseling just to be sure there were no personal issues of your own that you need to work on. And after doing all those things to make sure you've taken care of all the issues on your side that you can fix, you were to leave the marriage....I doubt society would blame or judge you at all! You were abandoned and you did the right thing by doing all that you could to save it!
> 
> ...


Do you really thing society as a whole really looks deeply at a situation like this? They see, "oh he didn't beat her up, he had a steady job, didn't drink, didn't gamble, wasn't looking at other women, what more could a women want?" 

They don't think, maybe she is sick of being refused every other night, being told by her spouse that sex does not need to be present in order to be a good marriage. They don't think that maybe the spouse was tired of looking at the bad of her husband head all night while he played computer games. 

No they will make insinuation like this:



> By far most divorces occur exactly because people are 'selfish' (by that I mean whose sole interest is in their own wants). The claims are quite often 'lack of emotional intimacy,' etc., but in reality the problem is that these people are not committed to the marriage, they are committed to themselves.
> ...
> Personally, I am still not convinced that your claims about your husband here are not simply the standard fog that all wandering spouses use to justify an affair. I've heard the exact same claims from way too many people to simply assume that this is the case here ...


If I was to walk out tomorrow, I would get that--yeah she says she was emotionally abandoned, but I'm not convinced. But you know what, I wont let that stop me from leaving when the time comes. It just irks me how people like you and this Tanelornpete (if you two are not actually the same person since the profile picture looks the same) sit there and say one thing about how you should leave ect... and then turn around and says "tsk tsk, what a callous woman to leave her husband, upset her children and not work on their marriage..."


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Careers don't "turn up". You have to go GET them, and it takes tenacity that goes beyond looking in the jobs section of the paper. Thoughts
> 
> - Go to the library and get a cope of What Color is Your Parachute.
> - Go to the department of labor in your state and get advice on jobs, training programs, ANY resources ... That is their job. Shake their tree.
> - Research community colleges with jobs training programs....


I have a college degree in education. I have endorsement in ESOL, Mathematics, Science, and reading coach. I have have been seeking all sorts of help. I have my resume with every local employment agency and every school board in a 100 mile radius. 
I have friends in the HR department in my local school board who has sent out my resume to school principals. 

Why does everyone think that I'm not doing this? I'm exhausted from searching some days. But just becasue I'm doing all this does not mean I am going to get a good job. 




> My husband wants touch. I don't. I don't give it to him because I "have to". I give it to him because I love him, and it is important that he is happy. Genuinely happy. Your husband does not seem to share that goal by telling you you "should" be happy. (Have I mentioned how much I think the word should be stricken from the marital dictionary?)
> 
> He doesn't really have the right to tell you what should or should not make you happy. So you have to decide:
> - Do I drag his butt back into counseling yet AGAIN (I am pretty sure you said you have done that) and see if he really WANTS to try to make ME happy
> ...


I am plotting a exit strategy, I have even told him this. In fact just last night he asked me if we wanted to go house hunting this weekend. I have told him over and over that I am not going to buy a house with him, because I am planing on leaving when I have a good job and I don't want to have to go through the hassle of adding a house into a divorce settlement. But it's like it hasn't sunk in to him.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

I did not read all the way down here... And I confess I have not read the thread to exhaustion. But I wonder, do you care what society thinks? That way leads confusion!

There are a few problems with cheating while you execute your long term exit plan. And I give them in no particular order.

- You cause yourself risk of unnecessary grief when/if your infidelity becomes part if your divorce proceedings.

- You may be feeling abandoned. But at one time you loved this man. You probably don't want to be causing him pain, DESPITE the fact that he is causing you a great deal. 

- I believe, and this is a serious minority belief, that a person cannot really be happy meeting their needs through devastation of their character and integrity. Whatever your reasons, they amount to justifications for doing something you know is just wrong. We know that two wrongs don't make a right. We have all known this since kindergarten. So if you act in a manner that is contrary to character and integrity, you might get short term pleasure. But you will also pay in terms of remorse, confusion and lack of self esteem. 

It sounds harsh but the best plan seems to be
- Long term plan of escape (assuming you are done with the dragging him to counseling bit... I missed the emotional abuse part so not sure what that is all about)

- Hitachi magic wand.

- Divorce.

- Friend finder the second your divorce decree is dry.

Good luck.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Just to clarify something, I do not feel his abusing me emotionally--I see emotional abuse as when someone is constantly telling you mean things, cutting you down in private and/or public, etc... maybe others here have a different idea of what emotional abuse is but that is how I define it. 

I feel more like he has just emotionally left the marriage or maybe he was not ever emotionally in the marriage and I was too young and inexpedience to know. When I have asked him if the root of this problem is that I might not be fulfilling his emotional needs, he responds that he does not have emotional needs and as long as I'm there for him to come home too and not wanting sex then he is happy. 

He wants us to live like friendly room-mates.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I'm sorry, I am not going to take my children form a nice middle class background, nice schools and a safe neighborhood and force them to live in some crime filled project, go to bad schools and live in an unsafe neighborhood just to fulfill your idea of what I should do.


I can only wonder what "my idea of what you should do" is! Apparently you have not read my posts! I have said over and over that this is up to you, no one can make this decision for you. I have said that a person who is abandoned in a marriage has the right to divorce. 

The only advice I may have had is this: it would be a very bad idea to cheat, and that it would create more problems, and add those to the ones your are trying to escape. 

I also advised that you write out your list, and make sure you present all the pros and cons to each side. 

Other than that I have not once made any other suggestion. I pointed out a few options, but these were not 'my idea of what you should' do. 

You mention your immense training, hence I assume that you are skilled in logic. Because you are, and the only things I said that you 'should' do are 'avoid infidelity' and 'consider all options' then it stands (_and your well rounded training must certainly show this as a logical conclusion_) that you reject my ideas of 'avoiding infidelity' and 'considering all options' as "..I am not going to...fulfill your idea of what I should do..."

Other than that I can only conclude that you are inducing propositions into my posts that I never wrote, nor inferred. And making up things about people in order to disagree with them is silly indeed.

I too wonder why you consider what 'society' thinks. Infidelity and divorce are majority opinions (hence, more people in society divorce and are unfaithful than are not). This infers that society thinks these things are valid options. Why NOT choose what society thinks?

What matters is what you do, as a responsible adult.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> No they will make insinuation like this:


In reference to my noting the number of divorces in the U.S. alone (without considering the rest of the planet):

"...By far most divorces occur exactly because people are 'selfish' (by that I mean whose sole interest is in their own wants). The claims are quite often 'lack of emotional intimacy,' etc., but in reality the problem is that these people are not committed to the marriage, they are committed to themselves...."​
Note the word 'most' in the in the very first sentence. This is the logical equivalent to the word 'some' as opposed to the word 'all'. I say most, and it is very, very easy to look up divorce statistics in this country and verify the reasons given. People leave most marriages because 'they aren't happy' - revealing that their commitment to themself takes priority to the commitment to the marriage (and working on happiness within the relationship). 

1) That was a statement of fact, based upon national divorce statistics. 

2) It is very silly (if not somewhat insane) to read the word 'all' when the word 'some' is used. Confusing the two is a big mistake.

I then wrote, quite clearly: 

"...Does this mean that you, Sailorgirl, are one of these people? There is no way to tell.This is not an accusation, but a statement of fact. There is not enough data for anyone here to make any sort of decision about such a thing. In order to do that, we would need to hear your husband's side of the story, rather than your claims of what he says or does. .."​

Note again, '_does this mean you, Sailorgirl_ and _*there is no way to tell*_. In fact, I wrote: _this is not a accusation_. 

The reason it is not an accusation is simple: I gave that reason too: "_there is not enough data for anyone here to make *any sort of decision*_"

In other words, we have what you state, and have simply given you options.

One other thing to consider: given the rate of divorce in this country, and the number of times 'emotional abuse' or 'emotional neglect' are offered as reasons, you would be forced to conclude that the majority of people in this country are not interested in sex, nor in emotional commitment. And yet, when it gets down to it, very few people make that claim. 

It is that discontinuity that provokes thought, and forces a responsible counselor to seek additional data before making any decisions.

And then you apparently object to this statement:

"Personally, I am still not convinced that your claims about your husband here are not simply the standard fog that all wandering spouses use to justify an affair. I've heard the exact same claims from way too many people to simply assume that this isn't the case here..."​
You provide no proof to oppose this. All is hearsay and facts from ONE spouse in a marriage of TWO people. 

Hence the advice given: don't cheat, consider all options. There is nothing else that CAN be advised!



> If I was to walk out tomorrow, I would get that--yeah she says she was emotionally abandoned, but I'm not convinced. But you know what, I wont let that stop me from leaving when the time comes.


I'm sure it wouldn't stop you. That isn't the point: the point is that this argument has been used SO MANY times on this website alone (check out all the threads of people defending their affairs) - that _regardless of the reason_ cheating simply will make things worse. That is the ENTIRE point! Too bad you let your prejudices and assumptions come between you and clear, plain speech.



> It just irks me how people like you and this Tanelornpete (if you two are not actually the same person since the profile picture looks the same)..."


Again, pointing out the use of logic: are there other options you can consider about Affaircare and Tanelornpete that might leap to mind if you put your mind to it? How about the fact that we are married and run a marriage coaching center?



> sit there and say one thing about how you should leave ect... and then turn around and says "tsk tsk, what a callous woman to leave her husband, upset her children and not work on their marriage...


I challenge you to go back through every line I have written and find one single case of us telling you to work on your marriage. In fact, I'd point out one other quote from me that you either apparently did not read, or chose to deliberately ignore:

"...you are looking for an exit, not a way to fix your relationship, so there really isn't reason to discuss his problem, is there? If you had intended to fix the marriage, rather than looking for people to support your idea of cheating, _the advice would be a whole lot different._ ..."​
On top of that, I wrote specifically (and please read carefully - I write my posts with deliberate language) - 

"...This is a valid complaint - and one on which I may hold a rather rare view. _*A person who refuses to meet their spouse's needs is one who has abandoned the marriage.*_ In this case, divorce is an acceptably moral choice (and I speak this as a very orthodox Christian). It is NOT horrible to believe that you should have a sex life with your spouse - from my viewpoint your body belongs to him, and his belongs to you, and _*to withhold sex is as immoral as cheating*_...."​
Not sure why the hospitality to what we have been saying, other than I suspect once I mentioned the word Christian, you induced a whole set of ideas into my posts, completely ignoring the actual words written.


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete--

I have been making these list, pros and cons etc...that you keep telling me i should do. I have been doing them from the get-go; I have been doing this since long before coming here but it does not make the situation any easier. I don't expect it to make the situation any easier. But I am very stressed out this week. Things are just hitting me harder these last few days and I just need a vent a little. I was in no way looking for you to tell me what I should do, nor was I looking for approval to cheat. I was expressing my annoyance with what I feel is a double standard. My husband can be as emotionally detached as ever and yet I'm seen as the unfeeling wife--noting meaning you or anyone in particular in this forum, but in general. I was also expressing my irritation with him and others like him who refuses sex with their spouse and yet fully expects that spouse to remain faithful and/or not to eventually leave him. My husband really seems to expect me to be happy in this, not to think of other men etc...I don't get it. 

I have no idea about you thinking I am mad or upset with you about Christianity. I don't care what faith you are. I do not see how my response has change since you mentioned your faith. You keeping me what you think I should do...make list, do not cheat, etc...and I keep telling you I've done that I'm not cheating but I am stressed out this week and needed to get some stuff off my chest. Not looking for your approval.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

LOL  One thing that's really helpful to bear in mind is that Tanelorn has a personality that is an Introvert and a Thinker, so he's nothing but logic, logic, logic. When he says "argument" he doesn't mean arguing like a fight; he means "presenting his reasons"...his case...why he thinks what he thinks. So if you read him and think of a logic professor, it might be a lot easier! The fun part is that I'm a Feeler, so I've learned that rather than base something he's said on how he feels or I feel...use my brain and follows steps from one conclusion to another. You know?

That being the case, let's look at this part for a minute because it seems like it bothered you a little: 



> By far most divorces occur exactly because people are 'selfish' (by that I mean whose sole interest is in their own wants). The claims are quite often 'lack of emotional intimacy,' etc., but in reality the problem is that these people are not committed to the marriage, they are committed to themselves.


I think one thing that would help a lot is to realize that the term "selfish" doesn't mean that negative connotation "Oh you are so selfish" where the definition is self-centered to the point that you hurt others. This term "selfish" means more like "self-interested" or in other words, doing what is in your own best interest. Of course, that I know of, most people are self-interested. I am! I want to honor my marriage vows and all, but I do want what's good for me, what's best for me, what makes me happy, etc. But even taking marriage as an example, he can not "make" me happy--*I* choose to be happy or not! And if I choose to not be happy, it's still not in my best interest to be dishonest and turn to another man searching for happiness. That would add MORE problems and doesn't solve any! 

So see what I mean? This is a statement, not a judgement. Of all the things a person could choose to put as their #1 priority, some put their kids first (which also doesn't usually go well for the marriage). Some put their spouse first and exclude themselves (which leads to an unhealthy parent/child relationship). Some put themselves first and exclude their spouse (which leads to acting as if you're single). Many people stay married and/or stay in marriages when their spouse has had a stroke and they have no intercourse sex ever again--so that would fit the "symptoms" you have in this marriage (no sex)--and yet they don't divorce? Why? Well, maybe they have prioritized their spouse ahead of heir own needs, but more likely they prioritized their marriage commitment ahead of their self-interest. Make sense? 

It sounds like you heard this statement as judging you for being selfish, when in reality it was a statement that often when a divorce occurs, the person has reached a point where they put their own self-interest ahead of their spouse, their children, their comfort, their assets, or their commitment. It seems to me that the example of the spouse who had the stroke--well eventually the caregiving spouse might put their own need for a partner in life (self-interest) ahead of the priority of their commitment to the spouse who had the stroke. And that's when the caregiver might consider a divorce. Likewise, there could be good reasons for that--like if the spouse with the stroke is refusing meds, refusing treatment, refusing to participate in the marriage, being cranky all the time and blaming it on "their stroke", being controlling or mentally/verbally abusive and blaming it on "their stroke". See? 



> Personally, I am still not convinced that your claims about your husband here are not simply the standard fog that all wandering spouses use to justify an affair. I've heard the exact same claims from way too many people to simply assume that this is the case here ...


For this part, again I can see how it sounds pretty judgmental but in order for this to make sense you'd have to understand How Affairs Start and understand that often, when a disloyal spouse starts an affair, it's pretty common that most think they would NEVER commit adultery and somehow they find themselves in the middle of it! And it feels good! So they don't really want to stop... but by the same token, disloyal spouses know darn well that infidelity is wrong. So what to do? Well...very, VERY often they will justify the affair by looking back, re-writing history a little, blaming their spouse for X, Y, or Z ...and then using that as a reason why they were driven to do it! Sort of like this: _"Well s/he neglected me, treated me bad, ignored me, or was emotionally not there...so to fix that I found someone who paid attention, treated me well, and was affectionate."_ The TROUBLE is that even if s/he is a jerk, that doesn't give you absolution or "permission" (if you will) to also be a jerk. 

Now, knowing that very, VERY often a disloyal person will find these kinds of reason in order to validate and explain their affair, that's why Tanelorn says we can't tell...because we can't. We haven't heard one peep from your husband, and from his point of view he might say: "Okay it's true, I worked 70 hour weeks because I thought that showed I loved her, but apparently she didn't want money she wanted sex." Or he might say: "Wait, she never said right out to me that she'd leave if we didn't work this out. I thought we were sacrificing for now in order to build our <equity in some asset> and then we would reap the rewards of that one day in the future together...as a couple!" See what I mean? We only have your side, and that may very well exactly be how it's been for you (I'm not saying it's not) but his side most likely is quite a bit different and might be relevant--we don't know! So does that make sense? It's not a judgement, but again more like a statement. At this point we really don't have all the facts we need in order to reach a conclusion, but we do know that very often, when someone gets emotionally involved with another outside the marriage, they do use the tactic of blaming their spouse in order to justify why they are okay in committing adultery. We'll just have to see if that's the case here or not.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have no idea about you thinking I am mad or upset with you about Christianity. I don't care what faith you are. I do not see how my response has change since you mentioned your faith.


That was purely a guess, because it was pretty obvious that you were (or are) not really reading what I said, and people always have deliberate reasons (even if they haven't really thought about them) for what they do. 

You made all kinds of claims - we are 'judging' you for some reason or other, etc. - when all I was pointing out was the fact that without more data, there is no way any judgment can really be made. The only observation I made (with the data present) is this: your complaints about your husband are pretty much stock and trade comments made by pretty much every disloyal spouse I've encountered. An observation only, not enough data to go further.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

May I also point out (as an educated person, you surely must recognize the reality here): 

The title of your thread is "Is it possible to avoid infidelity in this situation?" This is a question (and you made no reference to it being rhetorical). It begs an answer, especially on an advice forum. If all you had intended was to complain in public about how horrible your husband is, and how badly you are being treated, why start with a question? By the very nature of this site, you will get people offering an answer. 

If you intend to vent- make it clear with the opening sentence. Or at least, make it the topical sentence in your first paragraph. You would have avoided any encounter with me altogether - I see no point in venting in public, and simply stay away from them...


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## sailorgirl (Jun 9, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> That was purely a guess, because it was pretty obvious that you were (or are) not really reading what I said, and people always have deliberate reasons (even if they haven't really thought about them) for what they do.
> 
> You made all kinds of claims - we are 'judging' you for some reason or other, etc. - when all I was pointing out was the fact that without more data, there is no way any judgment can really be made. The only observation I made (with the data present) is this: your complaints about your husband are pretty much stock and trade comments made by pretty much every disloyal spouse I've encountered. An observation only, not enough data to go further.


I never said you in particular was judging me. I mean that I feel society takes a pretty harsh view of women who leave their husbands when there is no physical abuse, no cheating and the husband is a good bread winner. I used your quote because it is exactly the kinds of things I hear.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I mean that I feel society takes a pretty harsh view of women who leave their husbands when there is no physical abuse, no cheating and the husband is a good bread winner. I used your quote because it is exactly the kinds of things I hear.


You know, I am not so sure 'society' (whatever that is - philosophical query and irrelevant comment) is actually making the judgments you perceive. Our current society is based upon the notion of 'do what is right for you', and divorce is by far the solution of choice to most marital problems (check the statistics). If society actually frowned on divorce, there would be far fewer. It is because it is highly approved that there are so many. My guess is that it might well be more the people with which you have more direct contact that may think this. 



> ...I never said you in particular was judging me...


True - you didn't use the _word_ judge (or any form of it) - but what does this infer?:



> It just irks me how people like you and this Tanelornpete (if you two are not actually the same person since the profile picture looks the same) sit there and say one thing about how you should leave ect... and then turn around and says "tsk tsk, what a callous woman to leave her husband, upset her children and not work on their marriage..."


If you aren't saying it isn't ME that is judging you, then how can you claim I am 'sitting there saying things'. Why use my name at all? Just curious. Clear thought is the answer to most problems.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

sailorgirl said:


> I have a college degree in education. I have endorsement in ESOL, Mathematics, Science, and reading coach. I have have been seeking all sorts of help. I have my resume with every local employment agency and every school board in a 100 mile radius.
> I have friends in the HR department in my local school board who has sent out my resume to school principals.
> 
> Why does everyone think that I'm not doing this?


Because you didn't say so?




> I am plotting a exit strategy,


Glad to hear it. Keep on keeping on.


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