# Why Did Our Spouses Not simply Divorce Us?



## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Does anyone understand this. If a BS is such a poor mate, why hurt them with an affair? 
I know I was doing the absolute best I could. If it was not enough, why the need to hurt me like this? I did nothing to intentionally make my wife unhappy with me.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Why are people people?

Consult the Bible, Shakespeare, Milton, Miles Davis...

People are people. And people have been asking your question since time immemorial.

There's not an answer. The hard thing to swallow is that everyone is doing the best they can. Yes, even your ex.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

The reasons my husband didn't divorce me:

1. he could remember a time in the marriage when we were very happy

2. he's Catholic

3. he has a huge extended family who would have greatly disapproved

4. he loves his kids and didn't want to be a parttime dad

5. he was probably afraid that he'd be taken to the cleaners in a divorce with a SAHM


I think a MUCH better question is, why didn't my husband ask me to attend marriage counseling? Now THAT is a question for the ages.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

I ask the same thing all the time. Why? Why? Why? I imagine there are as many reasons as there are cheaters. 

His answer: I knew you were crazy about me. I knew that you trusted me. I figured I could get by with it. Your trust made it easy. She wasn't YOU!! 

I believe there is an element of truth in those statements, but not the whole story. I also believe he was trying to hurt me with his answer. He did. 

I'm sorry you find yourself asking the unanswerable. I don't think we'll ever really know "all" the reasons. Too many things going on in their minds, all the emotions and hormones/chemicals make a definative answer (in our case at least) impossible.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Cake eating. There's usually something in the marriage that the cheating spouse doesn't want to give up--money, memories, children. etc. Therefore, they get an affair partner and enjoy both worlds (while it lasts). For example, my estranged husband said he didn't want to hurt the kids or me by getting a divorce.:scratchhead: Also, he said he couldn't run our business without me. 

At this point I've quit trying to understand a cheater's rationale for many things. I honestly don't think they know themselves.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I really don't think that the internet term "cake-eating" trumps anything that Shakespeare had to teach us about the human soul.

But I know I'm in the minority here.


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## Zippy the chimp (May 15, 2012)

I think for most of the WS they still love their spouses (not always) but what they think they need or are not getting drives them to do what they do. Don't get me wrong unless there is abuse in the marriage there is never an excuse for infidelity but many are just trying to fill a void. It is a very selfish act they are thinking of themselves so I guess in a way they don't want to give up what they have. I don't know haven't gotten a real reason for why it happened just some excuses (feelings in the marriage) that led up to the act.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

lamaga said:


> I really don't think that the internet term "cake-eating" trumps anything that Shakespeare had to teach us about the human soul.
> 
> But I know I'm in the minority here.


"Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?" (John Heywood's "A dialogue Conteinyng the Nomber in Effect of All the Prouerbes in the Englishe Tongue" 1546)


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

in my sister's case, I believe her exH was trying to set things up for things to be financially favourable before he cut loose.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)




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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

My husband's reasons as explained by him:

1. He was too emotionally immature and selfish to deal with all the ramifications of divorce
2. Didn't think he'd ever get caught 
3. Deep down, he didn't really want to divorce me
4. Didn't want me to be with anyone else
5. He would miss sharing a home with me
6. OW was an affair down 
7. He would be embarrassed to bring OW around family & friends

Reasons 1-7 = Greedy little cake eater


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I think a MUCH better question is, why didn't my husband ask me to attend marriage counseling? Now THAT is a question for the ages.



I asked my H this and he said, wait for it, "I was angry and resentful and I thought all our marital problems were YOUR fault so I didn't need counselling."

Now, thankfully he says, "I was a real immature a$$hole and it's shameful." And I give him props for seeking out IC in the weeks before D-day. Granted, the advice he was seeking was on how to get rid of OW quietly and whether to tell me of the A, but at least he was starting to own his choices and take some of the blame for our M issues.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

When you come down to it, it's just dastardly behaviour on their part.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My husband said he wanted to play around until the kids left home and I was more available, and that then hopefully we could work on our marriage and be happier together. He never wanted us to split up. What logic, eh? And he had also convinced himself that he was sneaky enough to never get caught.

The sad thing is, I often wonder how many people actually DO get away with it for YEARS and then quit cheating and get happy with their spouse again and live out the rest of their lives blissfully happy together. I cannot imagine living with such a secret till the day you die. What must that do to your soul?


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I cannot imagine living with such a secret till the day you die. What must that do to your soul?


I saw what it was doing to my H's soul pre d-day and it was not pretty. He was drinking too much, his skin looked horrible, he wasn't sleeping, he was crying a lot, his heart was racing and he was an angry, sad mess. I thought he was suffering from severe depression. He said the guilt was slowly killing him.

At least I know he has a soul though.

If he had been cool, calm and collected, that would be scary.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Inertia.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Cake-Eating. Selfishness. Lack of Respect for the BS. Not wanting to end the gravy train of free money, child-care, etc.

One of the big things my cheating ex-wife did was carefully control any access I had to her "friends" and family. After I divorced her, I found out she had been telling her friends that "She was going to divorce me, but I was always pleading with her not to" and that was the only reason she was staying with me. 

The truth was that I was the one who decided to divorce, and through out the whole process she kept saying she never wanted to D and wanted us to R. Even after the D was final, and to this day in fact, she tells (me at least) that "she never wanted to D" and "it's all my fault we have a 'broken family' with our kids". Not once has she ever admitted to me what she told her friends and family. 

I'm sure she did that to manipulate appearances, and never thought I would actually find my ba**s and stop putting up with her abuse. To her, saving face and never being 'at fault' for anything bad (i.e. a majority of a her actions), is far more important than the truth. But, according to her, she is the most truthful person alive. Really. Just ask her.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

I suppose cake-eating is the generally accepted answer.

I say cowardice. Cowardice in addressing a marriage's problems, cowardice in dealing with these problems, and cowardice in how the cheater handles their own cowardice during the marriage, affair and aftermath.

They're damned good at running away and deflecting.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Get your loyal wife to do almost everything in bed, then tell your other women that your wife is frigid and that they are hot, and make them feel like they are making up for your terrible marriage that you can't leave because you're such a great guy and you really have to take care of your wife and especially her children...but make sure they are so unhot that your wife believes you when you say nothing is going on, you don't go for fat chicks, or chicks with tattoos either, or anyone in the military. Sounds like a lot of fun for a psychopath, enough to keep a fellow entertained for a long time (or until he gets caught in a small lie that becomes the thread that unravels everything.)

I drove by my ex yesterday with the kids in the car, he was standing by the road watching some construction with another guy. It was all I could do to keep myself from laughing, I screwed up my face and held it in, just barely. 

I know I have a lot to offer, am hot, talented, tend towards happiness, manage my sh*t a lot better than most, stick to therapy, am flexible and have a good attitude. He messed up big time. Now he has to pay for his big old house on his own. The funny thing is he pretended to want to build a house, etc. I thought he really did! So I made a personal sacrifice to move there out of the way of everything and to live in a house that had wall to wall carpeting which I hated and tile I hated (I detest how new houses are built) I kept my mouth shut when he blasted the hillside and destroyed some wetlands and joked about it...I kept my mouth shut on the stupid driveway design that he had to pay afterwards to have fixed, I opened my mouth to say patly nice things over his garage and how he organized it...(the truth is I would rather have lived in a yurt but at the time loved him and wanted him to have his house and to be building up equity while he was deployed, and did not mind my name not being on the house because I am not interested in houses and would not want to inherit it if something happened to him...but didn't say anything like that, just accepted his explanation that the house was in his name because he wanted to be able to afford it on his own if anything ever happened to me, I kept my mouth shut about having worked in mortgage loan processing and how bs that statement was...) So imagine his shock when I insisted at the divorce case management hearing that my name come off everything of his including his will and bank account that I wanted nothing to do with him and no interest in the house. LOL, better than digging your own grave, build it. I guess he thought I was doing the same as him, PRETENDING my feelings about a house, that I would never leave him because living in a big a** house was important to me. Ummmmm, nope, I was telling the TRUTH. What a surprise.

Anyway, that was his game. He got caught in his own web. His job is kind of tentative, he's 50 years old and has a mortgage and the real estate market absolutely s*cks. The place where he works is being sold, packed up and shipped somewhere else. (It's a power plant, hasn't been making energy for years...he mows the grass and that's about it.) He'll have options but he will have to drive a long way or close the house up or try to rent it out. Not my problem.

And oh, when he asked for a second chance and I gave it to him, when something came up after a few months and I wanted to discuss it with him, his words were that maybe we should GET A DIVORCE. I accepted. Boy, was he livid. He turned a 180 and what came out of his mouth was the lowest stuff ever. I told him it was a wonderful idea given his response to his own suggestion being accepted, that I was going to walk the dog and that when I returned, I expected him to be out of my apartment that had only my name on the lease, that he had a house with just his name on it and that was where he belonged. 

I still think he is trying to get over the shock that I actually did file for divorce and got a quick one, no attorney, plus a clause that he cannot harass me or my children.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

This reply may seem a bit knee-jerk, but my first thought was:

Because they're f*cked in their heads.

Honesty. My best friend and worst enemy all in one!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Jibril said:


> I suppose cake-eating is the generally accepted answer.
> 
> I say cowardice. Cowardice in addressing a marriage's problems, cowardice in dealing with these problems, and cowardice in how the cheater handles their own cowardice during the marriage, affair and aftermath.


Yes, I think cowardice runs neck and neck with cake-eating. It was probably more true in my H's case than cake-eating, TBH.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I think it's funny that he finally did suggest a divorce (again and again and again, but only because it was his way of winning an argument...when I had moved out he wanted a second chance...) and in the end I accepted. Then he acted like I was very meanspirited for doing that. Grow up, you're 49. What a baby. If only his mother had said fine and handed him a suitcase and dropped him at the bus station with a 20 dollar bill whenever he threatened to run away on her, he might have learned not to make suggestions that turned out to be idle threats. Or idle threats that turned out to be really BRILLIANT suggestions. Now he is divorced. See, because he asked for it (even though it backfired on him). How cool is that?


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

During the 3 month span when the OM was raw-dogging my
wife during her lunch breaks, she'd come home and start
the biggest arguments over the silliest sh!t.

Then she'd build into a resentful rage and threaten ME with D.
(Her miserable life and inability to "cope" without f*cking someone else was my fault)


Are you kidding me?!?!?!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

cantthinkstraight said:


> During the 3 month span when the OM was raw-dogging my
> wife during her lunch breaks, she'd come home and start
> the biggest arguments over the silliest sh!t.
> 
> ...


I heard one of my exH's OW was doing that to her H too, going off at him constantly. I finally explained to him the reason his W was crazy, he called her and left work immediately and went home to confront her. If nothing else, I liberated a man for all my efforts, nothing like the truth to set one free.:rofl:


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## ImStillHere (Apr 25, 2012)

Jibril said:


> I suppose cake-eating is the generally accepted answer.
> 
> I say cowardice. Cowardice in addressing a marriage's problems, cowardice in dealing with these problems, and cowardice in how the cheater handles their own cowardice during the marriage, affair and aftermath.
> 
> They're damned good at running away and deflecting.


:iagree:

My WH didn't even have the cojones to tell me about DDay face-to-face. He called. 

Then, of course, he blamed me for all of the problems in the M. He has always resisted IC/MC. He's selfish and entitled even though I was the main breadwinner. And finally, the kicker: he said that he was "torn" between me and the OW...that's why he didn't file for D. 

What a joke.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Why are people people?
> 
> Consult the Bible, Shakespeare, Milton, Miles Davis...
> 
> ...


No,everyone is not doing the best they can.Some are,some are not.
Doing the best you can means not giving up,you work at whatever the problem is.You dont hurt someone to get someone or something you want.
There is always a respectable way to bow out of a relationship or marriage.
You dont try or do youre best when you dont care or think of your consiquences that drag a family down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> During the 3 month span when the OM was raw-dogging my
> wife during her lunch breaks, she'd come home and start
> the biggest arguments over the silliest sh!t.
> 
> ...


That's the thing that makes me crazy about infidelity. It's the injustice and unfairness of it all. It's downright poor sportsmanship! 

That said, it would actually be worse if she was all sweet as pie and acting normally. (Sad as it is to say that about someone's H or W).

But at least you know, she was feeling some guilt. I've read the guilt comes out as anger during the A. It's the ones that feel NO guilt who you really have to be afraid of because apparently, they are less likely to feel true remorse and more likely to be NPD. 

Again, got to love that we get the anger dumped on us though.

My H had the nerve to say to me one day as I was working on the computer that I was setting a bad example for our daughters. I asked him how working was setting a bad example for them and he said, "Well, they don't know you are working!"

I recall asking him if he had lost his mind and then ended the conversation. After D-day, when he got his sanity back, he told me that the fact that I would rarely engage or would react calmly drove him nuts and made him feel like a huge a$$.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Both lordmayhem and I exchanged stories in another thread about how our spouses would pick fights with us during their As. I really thought I'd lost my mind, in the sense that I could not penetrate what he was thinking, always walking on eggshells and waiting for him to blow up as he misunderstood me yet again.

Since the affair ended, his irritability has vanished. We did have a decent-sized fight a couple of weeks ago, but we are learning how to fight fair. It sure helps now that he doesn't have his hidden agenda!


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

eah, I simply do not get the "everybody os doing the best they can" idea. Sounds a little too new age-ish and underanalytical.
If that is the case, then I guess Hitler was doing th best he could etc.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Divorce is a major life changing event. A little poon on the side usually isn't. Even if you get caught, the worst cases scenario is back to divorce, but there are several other options available that have a lighter sentence. 
Like shoplifting, people in affairs don't think they'll get caught. Truth is you can hide money, candy bars and the like. You can't hide emotion and the riggors of trying to lead two lives.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> eah, I simply do not get the "everybody os doing the best they can" idea. Sounds a little too new agaish and underanalytical.
> If that is the case, then I guess Hitler was doing th best he could etc.


I agree Liam and thank you for starting this thread. 

I, too, thought I was going insane when my husband would pick fights over nothing during his cheating. 

I think part of this whole issue is that the counselors are way too soft on cheaters. 

Yes both are to blame for problems in a marriage, but all marriages in time have problems. 

Cheating however is wrong and too many counselors make too light of it, IMO. 

One counselor I saw and fired told me it's been 3 months you should have forgiven him by now.

I have asked my STBEH many times why he did not take me up on my offer for counseling prior to his present affair or why he did not ask for a divorce. 

His answer is always: "I was never going to leave you". He says it as if I should be flattered. 

No. He wasn't going to leave because I was an easy mark, a dupe and trusting fool who was careful with our money. What a good deal for him.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I agree Liam and thank you for starting this thread.
> 
> I, too, thought I was going insane when my husband would pick fights over nothing during his cheating.
> 
> ...


Our old couselor actually told my wife that when the wife does have an affair its ALWAYS the husband fault...ugh,she told him he was full of it.
I'm resposible for half of the problems we had,
I'm not resonsible for her 4 month EA with her old hs bf,who turned out to be a low life scumbag who uses women for a place to live,use their vehicle,money..whatever he can get.She cant believe what she did,yep my fault...she was only doing the best she could......sigh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

calvin said:


> Our old couselor actually told my wife that when the wife does have an affair its ALWAYS the husband fault...ugh,she told him he was full of it.
> I'm resposible for half of the problems we had,
> I'm not resonsible for her 4 month EA with her old hs bf,who turned out to be a low life scumbag who uses women for a place to live,use their vehicle,money..whatever he can get.She cant believe what she did,yep my fault...she was only doing the best she could......sigh
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly Calvin. 

The fact however that your wife accepts full blame is such a good thing. IMO, your R will work. 

Best wishes.


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## Biting Bullets (Jun 7, 2012)

cantthinkstraight said:


> Because they're f*cked in their heads.


No kidding. According to my husband, the affair was an exit strategy. He did plan to divorce me but couldn't muster the decency to make a clean break. We both come from divorced parents, and in repeating that bit of history, he "didn't want to be the bad guy"... 

On some (low) level, he understood that by sneaking around and generally being sketchy, he would further erode my emotional ties to him. His hope was that by the time he suggested divorce, I wouldn't care. Seriously, what person wouldn't care that his or her spouse had been sleeping around?! He acknowledges now that his "rationale" makes absolutely no sense. 

This planned detachment works in the opposite direction, too. Although he hasn't said as much, I think he was trying to get over the me he had wanted me to become-- the me who never existed. 

Of course, all of it boils down to cowardice, another unpleasant byproduct of selfishness.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Some good replies!!

It's not so white in black imo.........I think every affair is different!!

Some people are happily married and love their spouse yet make a DECISION to cheat as a extracurrical activity "eating cake", "piece of strange", from time to time. I'm talking more of a ONS type of affair. No emotions, no strings, just sex and see ya.

I know there are affairs that last years with love, emotions, etc and in that type of affair I don't understand why at some point you wouldn't make a choice.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Divorce is a major life changing event. A little poon on the side usually isn't. Even if you get caught, the worst cases scenario is back to divorce, but there are several other options available that have a lighter sentence.
> Like shoplifting, people in affairs don't think they'll get caught. Truth is you can hide money, candy bars and the like. You can't hide emotion and the riggors of trying to lead two lives.


The poon on the side is a life changing event for the betrayed. Ask some of the guys whose wives you cheated with.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> Some good replies!!
> 
> It's not so white in black imo.........I think every affair is different!!
> 
> ...


How do you figure they love their spouses, if they cheat and expose them to life threatening diseases? Not to mention risking the destruction of the marriage and the abuse of the betrayed.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I agree Liam and thank you for starting this thread.
> 
> I, too, thought I was going insane when my husband would pick fights over nothing during his cheating.
> 
> ...


In our society, it seems, Sara, that counselors, lawyers, doctors, judges, professors etc. are given way too much deference.
I depose doctors weekly.Some are very dim bulbs. Same with us lawyers, as evidenced by my passing the bar exam, easily.
Some of the judges I deal with are absolutely dumber than rocks. 
It is the same with counselors. For God's sake, you'd think getting a PhD in psych was like , I don't know, difficult.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> In our society, it seems, Sara, that counselors, lawyers, doctors, judges, professors etc. are given way too much deference.
> I depose doctors weekly.Some are very dim bulbs. Same with us lawyers, as evidenced by my passing the bar exam, easily.
> Some of the judges I deal with are absolutely dumber than rocks.
> It is the same with counselors. For God's sake, you'd think getting a PhD in psych was like , I don't know, difficult.


What I didn't realize before (because I didn't have any reason to know) is that infidelity is its very own subset of human behavior. I dare say there are some very good counselors out there who just do not 'get' cheating. They haven't received any training in it.

I know a thing or two about cross-examination. Watching our very good MC gently probe and ask questions of my FWH was very eye-opening. He just knew what to ask and how to ask it. He wasn't going to let him off the hook. He didn't do it in an accusatory way, because all that would have done was anger my FWH and send him out the door. But he probed, and probed, and probed. 6 hours later I finally feel like we can stop discussing the affair and talk about the marriage itself. (I think we spent about 6 minutes discussing the affair with our first counselor...)


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sounds like you found a good one. Many are nuttier than fruitcakes.


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## slater (Feb 3, 2012)

I asked my wife this very question today in MC. Her response- she didn't want to get divorced, she felt we could still fix marriage. That's why we were in MC for 2 years while it continued. She said she sees now that it was absurd to try to fix the marriage with the A still going on, but that at the time it didn't seem illogical. You have to understand her affair was with someone she travelled with for work. They could go months between seeing each other and being together. She claims she tried to end it many times, but after several months they would be on a trip together and she would fall back into it. Apparently, he made her feel good about herself regarding her job etc.

I don't understand her logic at all. It makes no sense, so my reaction is to believe she is lying. She may be, or in her own weird, f'ed up world she may have actually been trying to end it and work on the marriage. That's one of the killers regarding R, even when the WS tells the truth, we don't believe them. I have no clue any more what TRUTH is.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> Some good replies!!
> 
> It's not so white in black imo.........I think every affair is different!!
> 
> ...


Yeah, a UK cheating hook-up site advertises itself as a website for: "bored housewives looking for a bit on the side."

It's a disgusting idea, but very descriptive. 

BTW, women who use the service get on it for free.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

slater said:


> I asked my wife this very question today in MC. Her response- she didn't want to get divorced, she felt we could still fix marriage. That's why we were in MC for 2 years while it continued. She said she sees now that it was absurd to try to fix the marriage with the A still going on, but that at the time it didn't seem illogical. You have to understand her affair was with someone she travelled with for work. They could go months between seeing each other and being together. She claims she tried to end it many times, but after several months they would be on a trip together and she would fall back into it. Apparently, he made her feel good about herself regarding her job etc.
> 
> I don't understand her logic at all. It makes no sense, so my reaction is to believe she is lying. She may be, or in her own weird, f'ed up world she may have actually been trying to end it and work on the marriage. That's one of the killers regarding R, even when the WS tells the truth, we don't believe them. I have no clue any more what TRUTH is.


Our stories have certain parallels, as you know


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> The poon on the side is a life changing event for the betrayed. Ask some of the guys whose wives you cheated with.


Unless, of course, poon on the side causes HIV in the body. 

You make a good point, BigLiam.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

For the most part, I don't think the cheating spouse sets out to hurt a loyal spouse, unless there's revenge affair stuff or passive aggressive controlling stuff or just meanness in the mix. Mostly, people are just too immature to care about the consequences of their actions.

I think that some people just choose the easy way of getting their kicks without being considerate enough to think about how it will affect the others around them. They see an opportunity and jump on it because getting one over on the system is a thrill or because they don't want to throw away a sure thing for a novelty until that novelty becomes more of a certainty. It sucks, but I think it is just selfishness or cowardice or opportunism or some other form of inconsiderate and foolish logic.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Good Dog said:


> So entitlement can be ugly, or it can be really ugly, especially when it comes to infidelity.


 :iagree:

Yes, that's a big one!


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> The poon on the side is a life changing event for the betrayed. Ask some of the guys whose wives you cheated with.


That's so true BigL. People often don't think about the damage until after the fact. Unfortunately, a lot things people do are like that.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Same with us lawyers, as evidenced by my passing the bar exam, easily.


And don't sell yourself short. The reason you passed with ease is because you knew the material. Many don't.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> How do you figure they love their spouses, if they cheat and expose them to life threatening diseases? Not to mention risking the destruction of the marriage and the abuse of the betrayed.


I'm never in the majority with my stance on this, but in most scenarios I still hold to the premise that's a decision a very piss poor decision it does not mean there is no love.

If it makes it easier for you to think that the WS has no love for the BS well then by all means believe that, but again it is not nearly that cut and dry.

People do horrible things to people they love all the time it's not a all or nothing "affair" for lack of a better word.

Running up hidden credit card debt, flirting, laziness, arrogance, seflish, gambling, getting drunk, porn, affairs, abuse physical and mental, lies, etc are all bad decisions........You can't just say "Oh they had a affair they don't love me!" without digging a whole lot deeper imo.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Anubis said:


> Cake-Eating. Selfishness. Lack of Respect for the BS. Not wanting to end the gravy train of free money, child-care, etc.
> 
> One of the big things my cheating ex-wife did was carefully control any access I had to her "friends" and family. After I divorced her, I found out she had been telling her friends that "She was going to divorce me, but I was always pleading with her not to" and that was the only reason she was staying with me.
> 
> ...


This is disturbingly familiar to me.


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## MtnDew (Jun 16, 2012)

I ask myself this same thing. Why didn't she just leave me? Why didn't she even talk to me about How she was feeling, how what she was thinking about doing.

I think that people sometimes don't know what they want to be honest. Maybe in the back of their mind they really don't want to leave you, but miss the old days...and hope that it will get back that way, though, in the mean time, they hurt you.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

cantthinkstraight said:


> This reply may seem a bit knee-jerk, but my first thought was:
> 
> Because they're f*cked in their heads.
> 
> Honesty. My best friend and worst enemy all in one!


Sadly Yes, when it truly comes down to it, that's the truth. Something has gone "off" in the brain box that allows them to act like sociopaths.... It's normal to try and find a logical reason when you are on the receiving end, but eventually you come to the conclusion that they are damaged people.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> I'm never in the majority with my stance on this, but in most scenarios I still hold to the premise that's a decision a very piss poor decision it does not mean there is no love.
> 
> If it makes it easier for you to think that the WS has no love for the BS well then by all means believe that, but again it is not nearly that cut and dry.
> 
> ...


JMHO, but the actions speak volumes about the lack of love. Perhaps we define it differently.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> JMHO, but the actions speak volumes about the lack of love. Perhaps we define it differently.


Sounds like it  

If you have raised children you will see it all the time. Especially in teenagers 16-20 doing things you wouldn't in a million years condone! It's not that they don't love you they are making piss poor choices.

I do hear what you are saying for some the thought of a affair is unfathomable and for others it's easily compartmentalized and put away in a black box. We are all different.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

OhGeesh said:


> Sounds like it
> 
> If you have raised children you will see it all the time. Especially in teenagers 16-20 doing things you wouldn't in a million years condone! It's not that they don't love you they are making piss poor choices.
> 
> I do hear what you are saying for some the thought of a affair is unfathomable and for others it's easily compartmentalized and put away in a black box. We are all different.


Raised 5 kids. But, I distinguish between children's actions and those of adults. And, these affairs are ongong, long term deals as opposed to isolated incidences.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

LIam, This is an easy one. In order to have an affair, the WS must be dishonest, disrespectful, selfish, delusional, unloving, cowardly and stupid. Why would you expect anybody having those traits to be able to do the right thing?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> What I didn't realize before (because I didn't have any reason to know) is that infidelity is its very own subset of human behavior. I dare say there are some very good counselors out there who just do not 'get' cheating. They haven't received any training in it.
> 
> I know a thing or two about cross-examination. Watching our very good MC gently probe and ask questions of my FWH was very eye-opening. He just knew what to ask and how to ask it. He wasn't going to let him off the hook. He didn't do it in an accusatory way, because all that would have done was anger my FWH and send him out the door. But he probed, and probed, and probed. 6 hours later I finally feel like we can stop discussing the affair and talk about the marriage itself. (I think we spent about 6 minutes discussing the affair with our first counselor...)


You are lucky you found a well trained counselor. I think they are difficult to find and few and far between. 

There are actually reports that MC's have damaged the BS as much as the affair itself. 

I personally know several psychologists and psychiatrists, and Liam is right despite their training a therapist or counselor can be nuttier than a fruitcake and still counsel. 

In addition, some states do not even require that a psychologist or MC have a license with a board that oversees their behavior while treating patients. 

In those states, anyone with minimal training can hang out a shingle and call themselves an MC or a psychologist.


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## Honeystly (Mar 1, 2012)

mine did. it hurts like hell


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> Sadly Yes, when it truly comes down to it, that's the truth. Something has gone "off" in the brain box that allows them to act like sociopaths.... It's normal to try and find a logical reason when you are on the receiving end, but eventually you come to the conclusion that they are damaged people.


I agree. Affairs are reek of sociopathy or worse psychopathy. 

It's all about compartmentalization and splitting of the personality and all sorts a scary things related to the mask of sanity that most sociopaths and psychopaths present so well to the public while stabbing their spouses in the back by devoting emotional or physical energy to a long-term affair. 

Affairs steal from the loyal spouses is so many ways.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Honeystly said:


> mine did. it hurts like hell


Yeah, but he had to wait until his skank turned 18, and that took a while. I know it hurts that he did this to you, but knowing what little we do of him via your stories, you really did get the better end of the stick. The real shame is that you cannot be rid of him altogether because of the children.

I know this isn't something you want to hear--you have suffered so much. But even worse than what your H did would have been if he had NOT left you and had lied and claimed he wasn't still seeing her. He could have dragged it out for years. I know what he ACTUALLY did was just about as awful as one person can do to another. But thank God you are not still with that miserable man.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Honeystly said:


> mine did. it hurts like hell


I meant prior to cheating.


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