# Don't even know where to put this...



## X42 (Nov 9, 2011)

So I've written a couple of threads over the past couple of years dealing with my issues regarding my wife's cheating. This is completely unrelated. It's a long story so bear with me but I am so f***ing confused I just need to tell it.

So 6 years ago, my wife's brother, who it turns out, is a a raging alcoholic, left a party at our house and subsequently got a well deserved DUI. Since that time, he's gotten 2 more DUIs, been arrested for battery Leo, as well as 3 domestic violence charges. A real piece of work. His parents refused to admit that their son had a problem, and actually blamed me and my wife for the cause of his troubles. They thought someone had called the police because he was too drunk to drive, and thus had him arrested. So they blame me for the start of their sons troubles. He's 35 now btw. I'd say he's a legitimate adult.

After his latest bout with the law, another domestic battery arrest back in November of 2012, he moved in with her parents. They didn't tell us. They knew we did not want him around our daughter because he is a violent drunk and mentally unstable to say the least. So what did they do? They hid the fact that he moved in with them. They would have him leave their house before we brought our daughter over and he would return when we left. This went on for 6 months until his now ex wife told us that he had been living there. We confronted them, they confirmed that he was living there, but offered no apology. Still haven't because to them, blood is thicker than anything, parental wishes be damned. 

Needless to say, I lost it when I found out. I called her parents, was firm, angry, but relatively calm when I spoke to them. I basically got told to go pound sand. That we were the reason he's so messed up because that first DUI ruined his life etc. We haven't talked since march of this year. 

Well, now her dad is in the end stages of life. Cancer, late diagnosis, no cure, etc. He hates me. He despises me. And I don't care because I know what they did was wrong. He, nor she, has never apologized for what they did, exposing our daughter to a violent, insane drunk on numerous occasions knowing full well we would have never let her be around him. My wife had the audacity to suggest that I go apologize to him so that he could die peacefully. Needless to say, I have declined to do that. I didn't curse, I wasn't disrespectful in our conversation. He just did not agree, to say the least, with my viewpoint. 

but here's the kicker. My wife tells me tonight that her mother told her that the fact the "family has been torn apart over the last 6 years" is the reason her dad is dying. In other words, blaming us, but me in particular, for causing strife. That because we couldn't just overlook the fact that her brothers violent and destructive behavior was the root cause of problems. I refused to participate in their family events if he would be present because they chose to rug sweep the issue, not tell anyone, and refused to kick him out or get him help.

I am so mind blown that people can be this daft. This actually has the potential to tear our marriage apart. Her family's seething anger toward me is affecting my wife, but I refuse to cave to the insanity that her family seems to think is normal and acceptable. 

Even on his deathbed, this man does not want to come to terms with his faults or mistakes. He wants to blame me. And his wife, my mother in law, apparently agrees whole heatedly. 

This is just insane. Or is it just me. Thoughts?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I have just two thoughts: 

1. Your wife comes from an enmeshed, dysfunctional family.
2. You can be "right," or you can be "happy," but I doubt you'll find both with this situation. 

Sometimes it's okay to let other people think they are right. If you could say to your wife, "I will apologize to him in order to keep the peace, but I do not believe for a moment that we're the cause of your brother's problems, and I will always hold them accountable for deceiving us. I will go through the motions for one reason and one reason only - because I love you," and you trust that she won't turn it around on you later and use your words against you, then it might be worth giving in on this - not to save your relationship with her family, but to improve your relationship with her.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

Did you tell your in laws why you we're so mad, that they exposed your daughter to a drunk? How long was your daughter there and was she ever alone while he was there? 

It sounds like your in laws have a serious perception problem if they blame you for his drinking. That is ridiculous. They are obviously enabling him and his behavior by giving him a place to crash after his disasters. Your right about that too imo. 

If your daughter was intermediately exposed to him just when he was sober she probably never saw anything bad, but I don't know how often and long she exposed to her drunk uncle. Kids are fairly resiliant, again I don't know how old she is either but she probably has no idea that he's a drunk.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

X42 said:


> This is just insane. Or is it just me. Thoughts?


I totally agree that your BIL's troubles were his own doing, and it wasn't right for your in-laws to blame you for that. It also wasn't right for them to deceive you. 

However, I also think you are overreacting over this issue, and I have a strong feeling that their version of the story would sound different. It's obvious you care about your daughter. But should they care about their son any less? Should they have thrown him out in the street? Yes, they deceived you about him living there, because they wanted to see their granddaughter and you were being so inflexible. 

I got it that he was arrested multiple times for DUI and domestic violence. But did your in-laws leave her alone with him? I'm assuming no. I'm sure they felt that as long as they were there with your granddaughter, then she was safe. 

But this is all in the past, and it's time to try to reconcile before your FIL dies. I don't see the benefit in dragging this argument out any longer.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> I have just two thoughts:
> 
> 1. Your wife comes from an enmeshed, dysfunctional family.
> 2. You can be "right," or you can be "happy," but I doubt you'll find both with this situation.
> ...


Sometimes being right and alone is not the answer. I think Kathy has a great idea here. Maybe shed some light on codependy too, offer a book on it and explain to her that you don't want your nuclear family to be like that, ever.


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## X42 (Nov 9, 2011)

I appreciate the responses; I really do. But let me expound. We started suspecting something was amiss because when we would mention to our daughter (3 yoa at the time) that she would be gong to see her grandparents she would cry, and almost become hysterical that she didn't want too. It was only after we found out that they were hiding her brother and I was asking her why she didn't want to go over there did she tell us that her "uncle" and grandpa were fighting. It really sucks to have to try and grill your 3 year old as to why she didn't want to see her grandparents but I have no reason to suspect she was lying because, you know, she was 3 .

No, she wasn't alone in his presence, as far as I know, but they are less than honest so I'll never know.

I could be the bigger man and just apologize for the sake of doing it, but her father has expressed a deep hatred for me. Why would I want to put him through more stress when he can't stand me? Especially since he just can't admit his faults or wrongs? Does death really excuse that?

Her parents hate me, I know this, yet also resent me for not falling on the sword so that he can die peacefully. Just because you're facing death does not excuse your past wrongs IMO. 

Just so we are clear, there honestly isn't another side to this story. I've presented the facts as they are. Her dad even told me that if I was the one beating his daughters a** that its her problem because she married me.

They resent the fact that I called the police to their home when they weren't there because their sons ex wife called us to say she was being held against her will. I explained that as a cop I have a legal, but more importantly moral, obligation to act if someone is asking for help. Their response? It's none of your business they could've handled it,

I'll be glad to answer any more questions...

Edit to add: what's more important...being right because you're protecting your daughter or being happy to salvage the marriage?

And yes, I think it's pretty cut and dry regarding the emotional and mental health of our innocent child as opposed to the actions of a an adult. I don't think there's any comparison. Should they have kicked him out? Gotten him treatment? That's on them. But they do not and did not have the right to make parental decisions regarding who our daughter was exposed to when we had made our wishes clear. I do not think that given the circumstances that is unreasonable, unless I'm insane.


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

X42 said:


> I appreciate the responses; I really do. But let me expound. We started suspecting something was amiss because when we would mention to our daughter (3 yoa at the time) that she would be gong to see her grandparents she would cry, and almost become hysterical that she didn't want too. It was only after we found out that they were hiding her brother and I was asking her why she didn't want to go over there did she tell us that her "uncle" and grandpa were fighting. It really sucks to have to try and grill your 3 year old as to why she didn't want to see her grandparents but I have no reason to suspect she was lying because, you know, she was 3 .
> 
> No, she wasn't alone in his presence, as far as I know, but they are less than honest so I'll never know.
> 
> ...


Not insane. Your protecting your child. I wouldn't want my kid exposed to an insane drunk either. I just wish for you your wife was on your side. Sorry she isn't and I know that is your biggest problem. I wish I had advice. It's like her loyalties with her parents take priority over you two being a team. If she was on your side, you wouldn't have a problem. 

You've made your stand. Don't buckle. It may blow over between you two and she may just need time to digest it all. I'd leave her alone about for it awhile. If she's still mad, she will bring it up again.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

It has to be your fault. After all he was raised by perfect parents. Right?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I can relate that's why we moved across the country. My parents pulled many things like this, including trying to get my son to call my mother mom and me by my name, food poised my son and never apologized on the contrary they got mad at me for asking about it. They lost my kid, he was 15 months he wandered off to the streets, my father asked what the big deal was. I could go on forever. We moved, but that was no enough, I later got into therapy and learned about boundaries, our relationship is much better now. 

For now, keep your daughter away, pay for day care. I did this when my parents started spraying raid around by son because my mother thought she saw an ant. Send a clear message, when they bring up the cancer is your fault, leave. Tell them you will not start this conversation again, that's their way of stringing you. 

You can't argue with crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

By the way, I was raised to defend my parents and to not even dare to question them or their actions. Your wife is a victim, it's hard to explain but she's probably afraid of the emotional blackmail they unleash.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

ETA: just to clarify my "wife is a victim of the dysfunction" statement. I'm in no way associating this with her cheating.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

You could go there, pretend all is good, make peace, etc, etc, etc...

But, what about after? Would it be expected, then, that everything goes back to normal and all of a sudden you don't have a problem with your daughter (not to mention your wife) visiting a home inhabited by a violent alcoholic? And what about the next bit of dysfunction, and the next bit after that? It wouldn't end with this.

Your MIL is still there, enabling his destructive behaviour, and if you do what's asked you'd be doing the same thing. I agree with your principled and stance to protect your family from this man.

So that's good. But, it sounds like you really need to get into counseling, because the problem could be your wife seeing you as taking a stance against her side family rather than one which protects your immediate family.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I support your decisions. Your fil made his decisions, so he can lie in that bed. Toxic people don't like to take responsibility for anything, so whether they blame you is their problem. You must protect your daughter, period. Your wife has real nerve to suggest you apologize; besides, how would that help him die in peace? It's not like her father loves and misses you, it would only serve to let him die thinking he was right.
I have an extremely toxic sister, drug addict pos. For a time she was tight with my ex, who was still so angry with me for divorcing him that he was willing to look the other way while she told my young boys that I was a f!cking b!!tch. She ended up moving in with him and they also tried to hide it; turns out my mom knew and kept it from me. .When I found out I ripped her three new ones and threatened to take my ex back to court if he let her open her mouth to the boys, and after running to navy legal he realized I could actually do that. He ended up kicking her out and now at 37 she's mooching of mommy. 
While I don't wish ill on her, and I doubt she'd say the same about me even though i've never actually done anything to her except refuse to let her mooch off of me, if she comes down with terminal cancer I'l still never speak to her again.
F$ck your wife's family, they made their bed. Your daughter will grow up knowing you protected her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I also have a highly unstable, unpredictable BIL who's had various run-ins with the law. 

Granting that "normal" is relative, your in-laws' behavior was decidedly not normal. While everything they do is certainly not your business, you had every right to know that your daughter was being exposed to someone prone to violence and unpredictable behavior.

No disrespect intended, but your in-laws sound highly dysfunctional and not the least bit toxic. The placing of all familial blame at your feet is just ridiculous shaming. Be advised that your in-laws may be using all this to try and subversively cast you as the bad guy to your W. Has there always been a bit of animosity between you and them?

I do not blame you one iota for not apologizing. You did nothing wrong. However, as is being pointed out, bc your W is beginning to slowly move to their side, you have a choice to make. The problem is that it's hard to apologize without an implied admission of guilt or complicity, of which I think you are clear.

Only you can decide if it's worth not apologizing. I can honestly say if it were me I would not.


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## WatchmansMoon (Mar 6, 2013)

I feel badly for you. Your in-laws probably do have multiple dysfunctional issues they've never handled properly, and you can't expect that you'll be the one fix any of them. You do, however, have a committed relationship with their daughter, and you do have an obligation to keep that bond intact. I'd honestly consider getting some counseling to prevent any further damage to your marriage. Think of it more as damage control. Re mom and dad-in-law, my own mom was dysfunctional, and blamed me for crazy things in her life that she just couldn't handle. I've learned to shrug them off as her only means of coping - blaming someone else. Blaming you may be your in-laws only means of coping at this stage in life. It doesn’t make it right, but you know the truth. Try to focus on what matters the most: 1) your daughter's safety and emotional health, 2) your marriage. This dysfunction your wife's inadvertently been "stamped" with by her family probably will continue to have negative effects on your marriage. You probably both have issues you could use some help with, you know? For your sakes, please consider getting some good marriage counseling. It may be costly, but a possible future divorce costs way more, and the pain from that will be much greater than anything you've faced at this stage. Hugs to you and your little family!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

This really stinks you have done nothing wrong imo. I wish you the best.


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## hopelessromantic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

Didn't you know that being a responsible citizen, concerned family member, and good father (aka causing strife in an otherwise perfect family lol) causes CANCER?! Ok...these folks seem a little nutty to me, and I really hope your wife sides with sanity here. Let the old man die his way, he knows he's wrong even if he won't admit it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

X42 said:


> We started suspecting something was amiss because when we would mention to our daughter (3 yoa at the time) that she would be gong to see her grandparents she would cry, and almost become hysterical that she didn't want too. It was only after we found out that they were hiding her brother and I was asking her why she didn't want to go over there did she tell us that her "uncle" and grandpa were fighting.
> 
> * So BIL *was* there, or she had another (scarier) reason to fear going there. Otherwise, how would a 3 y.o. know they were fighting? *
> 
> ...


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## X42 (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. There hasn't always been animosity between us, but it did start to creep up over the years. Her family is large. Think big fat Greek wedding. Mine is small. So there were issues regarding attendance of out of state family events that we disagreed on. Additionally, as the income provider I could not take off work. They didn't and don't like that.

What really created the rift, however, was once her brother started getting arrested. Hell, I was ok being around him up until he beat the snot out of his wife. At that point I said no more. I told my wife she could go to whatever she wanted, family event wise, but my daughter and I would not be going. 

It took her 2 years to tell her parents the truth about why I wasn't at the family events anymore. All the while, they blamed his wife, yes his wife, for getting him arrested. Their response was "she shouldn't have gotten him so upset if she knows he has a temper. The alcohol has nothing to do with it". 

So it became my fault, over time, as to why the holidays etc were difficult. But I did not, have not, and will not waver in my position. 

It's a sh!tty situation, and it's not about who's right or wrong, for me it's about protecting my daughter. It sucks that her dad is dying. It sucks seeing her suffer emotionally.

But she is starting to get pulled back in to their mentality. Saying that the past is the past it doesn't matter anymore what he did etc. see I disagree. I would think that you would want to right your wrongs before death. Maybe not. 

Either way at the end of the day I'm not looking forward to the future here, as her mother will hold her anger over this for eternity.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Once you establish boundaries they will even like you, its odd but true.


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## X42 (Nov 9, 2011)

I've got to admit, Kathy, I'm kinda of confused by your responses. No offense but I'm reading them (or into them) as you thinking I'm being petty and intractable. 

I have not forbidden my daughter to see them, I just asked my wife that she be there with them so if the brother shows up she's there. Or can leave. I've just chosen to not participate in the charade. Nor do I want to be around someone who beats his wife. Or around people that essentially condone what he does. Am I missing something?


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

So the brother is a violent drunk? Their was a deceased Uncle who molested your wife? The parents lied to you about the drunk and kept you in the dark when you left your daughter with them?

Words fail me...but I'll try. 

Keep you daughter away from them. Obviously. Have nothing to do with them since they put your daughter in jeopardy. 

Your wifes behavior is alarming- she should be much more concerned with your childs safety than her parents messed up lives.

Is she in IC? If so this behavior needs to be addressed - if she isn't seeing a therapist now she needs to start.


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## CRexsWife (Nov 17, 2013)

I suspect they would have done exactly the same thing if he was a pedophile. Consider yourself blessed in that regard.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

OK I'll probably get a bunch of flack for this so here it goes.

If you and your wife have a good marriage and it's causing her problems, then to keep her from any more hassle, I would go and see the old man. No one says you have to shake hands and make up and be buddy, buddy but it might take the pressure off your wife. If the old man gives you any kind of $h!t you can always get up and leave and say that you gave it your best shot.

My Ex FIL was a real ass and one time he started choking my sister in law and I tried to calm him down and got between them so I has her behind me and him in front reaching over choking her and I got pissed and put him on his ass and the rest of my ex wife's actually were glad I did it. 

few years later and after I was divorced, he had cancer and was on his death bed and I actually went to see him just to put an end to a bad incident. he didn't like me and I didn't like him but I still did it and when I left, my head was high for what I thought was the right thing to do. 

That's just me but you do what you think is best for you but think of your wife and maybe it could be easier on her.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I am quite sure that if you are the bigger man and admit guilt that all will be forgiven, they will not harbor resentment toward you and they will no longer try to poison your wife against you.

After your FIL passes and your MIL is lying alone in her bed she will not blame you any more.

/sarcasm off

The way I see it your only real problem here is your wife.
She will face a "you or them" decision, the sooner you help her visualize signing the divorce papers the easier it will be for her to "get it".

Print some out, hand them to her when you bring this to her attention and ask her if that is what she really wants.

Make it clear "This is a life time loyality and respect decision you are making, be sure how you want this to go down."

I dont believe ANYTHING will get better for you if you admit guilt it will only fuel the fools fire of hate, resentment, and family co-dependency.

If you take the blame are you willing to live according to their "code" from now on?

If taking the blame would actually do any good long term then maybe, but you cannot reconcile with there people!!!!

Good luck, I do wish you well.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I agree with most of what Decorum said.

I would not apologize. It is not going to bring peace to him, he is going to be dead. It is for the MIL. She is the one who wants you to do this. The only people who would benefit from it is those who will still be alive, those you still have to deal with. It also sounds like no matter what you do the MIL will continue to blame you for all her woes.

As for your wife, you can have a calm conversation with her and let her know how badly you feel for her, that you love her, but apologizing to the FIL isn't going to change anything, if anything it will make it worse because then the MIL will hold that over your head FOREVER.

You were right to protect your daughter and lay down boundaries. I am sorry your wife has not been able to do that yet. How old is she - your wife?

Dealing with dysfunctional families is difficult. I moved to another state to get away from mine, perhaps you could consider that.


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## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

X42,

You protected your daughter the best way you know how. Until the BIL is out of the house for good, I would not let your daughter visit. Period.

Your FIL hates you for some perceived insult(not attending family functions, blaming his son's DUI on you, etc). Even though you may be in the right, in times like these, it's best you be the bigger person. Go visit him. If he brings up the past, brush it off. Show him kindness. It's the right thing to do when a man is in his last stages of life. Your wife will forever be grateful for it. 

Do you want to prove you're right or do you want to do the right thing? 30 years down the road, you'll look back and know you did your best.

Good Luck!


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

Boricha said:


> X42,
> 
> You protected your daughter the best way you know how. Until the BIL is out of the house for good, I would not let your daughter visit. Period.
> 
> ...


I would agree to this, IF the FIL wanted to see him, but it is not his wishes, it is the MIL's wishes. Honor the FIL's wishes and stay away.


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## X42 (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, 2 days ago her father died. She called me at 0120 in the morning saying she received a text from the hospice nurse that her dads BP was dropping. I called my supervisor, came home, and told her to go down there in case this was it. She arrived just in time to be there when he passed.

I slept for about 3 hours, then woke up because our daughter was up. I ran all day on 3 hours of sleep. I was exhausted. She came home at 8 the next night, and I could tell something was wrong. I was in the middle of making a rubber band bracelet thingy for our daughter when she walked in. I asked how she was doing etc.

Oh, here's an interesting side note. While she was down there, her brother decided to throw caution to the wind and start drinking in front of her and her mom. Getting totally hammered. While his dad was hours from death. Plastered drunk. 

Then, at dinner, the wheels came off. I mentioned that since the funeral isn't till the end of the week, it gives us plenty of time to try and locate her brothers firearms to make sure they are all accounted for prior to the funeral. Yes, he is THAT crazy. She lost it. Got furious that I didn't go out and get a card and flowers for her while she was gone. I tried to explain that I was functioning on 3 hours of sleep, it wasn't an intentional slap in the face, I was just to keep my eyes open all day to focus on our daughter and the thought of running out didn't cross my mind. I got yelled at because I didn't even have our daughter make her a card. Again, it didn't enter my mind because we were playing all day, and I was exhausted. 

She took all this as an intentional, deliberate F U to to you and your family. Then she started in on how I never made an attempt to make things right with her dad. I calmly explained that it was not my place to apologize, he clearly did not want to see me.she started in on personal, vicious attacks, and I lost it. 

I said your dad is dead, your brother, the reason there is so much family strife is DRINKING AS HE'S DYING, and you're making this about my lack of attempt to reconcile. She said its not in his nature to be the bigger man and admit mistakes and wrongdoing. I was like...this seriously cannot be your argument for me needing to go down and see him? To apologize for protecting our daughter? Are you insane?

Yes, I know the timing was horrid but I could not take the grudge and guilt trip she was throwing at me coupled With the personal attacks. I, unfortunately, reached my boiling point. 

For the record, I was extremely supportive of HER throughout this entire process. Need me to take time off? Done. Need me to be home with you? No problem. Shoulder to cry on? Here. But no, I'm not going down to apologize when I, and we, didn't do anything wrong?!

She's made it clear that she is going to take this grudge to the grave, as is her mother. At a total loss here.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I am truly, so sorry.

Maybe time will change things, but as for now, it appears she has made her choice.

Again, I am sorry.....


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Is your wife in IC? It sounds like she needs it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Good for you, you have done nothing wrong. If you apologize it's an admision of guilt so there is no winning. Be ready for anything right now, a family like that can spiral out of control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

X42 said:


> She's made it clear that she is going to take this grudge to the grave, as is her mother. At a total loss here.


Why? This behavior is no different from her parents. She is copying the example that she has seen. I suspect she has seen alcohol abuse and domestic violence at home as well (in my experience, those don't pop out of no where). This is normal to her, and your refusal to go along with that normal is probably pretty confusing to her (and her family). 

So with that in mind, what is your next move?


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## DeusEx (Mar 7, 2013)

Dude, personally if I was in your place I would dump her @ss, take my daughter and take things to court to protect her this toxic family and be happy with my life. Because it doesn't sound your life is a happy one. AND she CHEATED on you? And this is how she repays you giving a 2nd chance? Dude really... For me its a no brainer... Seriously...


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