# New Member - I need HELP Please



## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi Everyone

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Tom and I'm a 65yr old retired for 7 years gentleman. I am in my second marriage for the past 15 years. My wife is 11 years younger than me and we've got along as two best friends for the first 10 years. 

I am to the point where I am not sure if I am losing my mind or something is going on her end. I will try and be as brief as possible but get to the details.

We have been together for 25yrs. After my divorce I did not remarry for 14 years. We were married in 2002. Believe me, it couldn't be a better friendship. To date I/we have 7 grandchildren from my two boys who she treats like her own. There has never been any problems with our relationship with my 2 boys or the Grandkids. Thank God.
After a few years of marriage she had a hysterectomy with no input from me. She told me her doctor recommended it because her monthly periods were vicious. I couldn't say no that's for sure. She was always a normal weight and height. Out of nowhere a few years later she said she was having a lap band (stomach tied) cause her doctor recommended it. She only weighed 125lbs. The excuse was her Dad passed away from esophageal cancer and she was being preventative. I couldn't say no that's for sure.
As the years went by in 2010 I retired in the spring. Yipeeee I worked for 42 yrs and couldn't be happier. We always talked about she would retire along with me. She always said "I'm not going to retire at 65 cause you will be 74. I want to have fun first". The both of us were always in agreement. Money was no issue so life was good. 
In the fall of 2010 I came up with the idea, lets buy a house in FL and live the good life 12 months a year. So we did. What an awesome house in a prestigious golf community on the west coast. Life couldn't be better. At the time she was working for a huge firm from home and told me she wanted to work a few more. Fine  we agreed she would work M-F and I would play golf with my friends. I promised I would never play golf on weekends while in FL and that was our time together to travel and see the country. It was great for the two years. Winters in FL and Summers up north. We owned both houses outright and had it made. Everyone we knew was jealous of us and we loved it.
After the second year while we are up north she claimed her hip was hurting. We went to multiple doctors who vis MRI, X-Rays, tests said nothing is wrong. She finally found a doctor who would agree with her and replace the hip. I could do nothing but be a good husband and be supportive. Make a long story short, by 2015 she had both hips and both knee's replaced. I would get mad when her doctors would say they see nothing wrong but would replace the joint upon request. Again, what could I say???
During all the surgery time of 2012 to 2015 one doctor after seeing many agreed with her she had pain and classified it RA. The amount of drugs she takes today is phenomenal. I am still beside myself. That's all when she turned in to someone else. Today she is not the same person I married. From a quiet lady she has turned in to a Harley Davidson Biker with friends I want nothing to do with. It started with one small Tattoo. Today she has 15 and if I do not step in she would cover her body. Piercings everywhere. She cut all her hair off and her hair cut looks like Justin Beeber. The color is now the same as Lucile Ball. OMG people ask me what's going on??? I'll be honest with you I don't know.
For the past few years she refuses to go to FL. She'll complain all day the cold hurts her arthritic bones, but refuses to go. I go alone for a couple months at a time. I do feel guilty leaving her at home.
The latest thing is she wants to buy a gun. Hey, I believe in the 2nd Amendment, but I choose to have no guns in the house. It's a constant battle.

I could go on forever. But, she is nowhere the same person I married. 

My question is; Am I wrong by not going along with everything that is going on. She likes to fight so arguing with her gets the both of us nowhere. For the past few years I've been going to FL for the winter alone. She says to me all the time to go to FL and enjoy your retirement. As she says FL is not for me. 

I've tried getting her to go for counseling. After about 10 meetings she told the Doctor to go F himself. 

Help me please. 

Thank You

Tom


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

One quick example:

Yesterday we attended her family's seafood cookout. I look forward to it yearly. Great food and a great time.

During the event she sat next to me with a plate of food. In her plate was about 10 steamed muscles. I said "Why did you get the steamers, you hate them" She replied "Are you F'n stupid, I've eaten these all my life" 

Believe me, she has hated clams, steamers, quahogs since I've known her.

Am I dead and this is a dream?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

My friend, I had a wife like this too. She wasn't a biker and didn't have any tattoos. But the "drugs" part was the same.



golfer6760 said:


> The amount of drugs she takes today is phenomenal. I am still beside myself. That's all when she turned in to someone else.


Bottom line: you can't change someone else. No matter what you do, the other person does what she wants to do.

Mid-life-crisis is the time when latent desires in the person come to the surface. Your wife has probably wanted to be a biker for a long time, but
has made the rational, correct judgement that it is better to have a conventional lifestyle. Deep inside, she knows these things will lead to sorrow
and regret for her, but the drugs are shutting up the internal "voice".... and she is now giving herself permission to listen to the "other voice".



golfer6760 said:


> Am I wrong by not going along with everything that is going on.


No, sir, you aren't. You are right, and she is WRONG. You can't make her come from wrong back to right. The rational thing you can do is to go right ahead and do what you want to do to enjoy your own life. It is a shame that you won't have your wife to enjoy it with.

Move the lion's share of the money out of her reach. I'm not saying you shouldn't support her with medical care, food, clothing, and sustenance. But she is acting without rational judgement and will, if allowed, spend you into oblivion.

I know, sir. I know exactly what it is like to have useless doctors who simply give the patient what she wants and take the money. My W eventually got there. 3 doctors quit before she found one with no balls. One of them came to me and said "..Mr. W....I want to show you the list of your wife's medications"....and as he showed me, he said, "...that is a picture of malpractice, right there...."...and then, he informed me that he would no longer treat her as a patient. 

The doctor with no cajones put her in the hospital 5 times with overdoses. I went to everyone, including the state police. Even they told me "...there's nothing we can do about this, if he has a license to practice medicine, and your wife doesn't take street drugs...".

The only option you have is to see a lawyer. I did. Thank God, he was an honest one. He told me "....you can't get rid of a person like this... it will cost you radically and you will still wind up paying for the medicine she is going to kill herself with....". That lawyer, sir, was also a prophet. That is exactly how she died. All the other times, I caught her passing into the stupor and got her the ambulance. This time, I was too late. When I found her, she was cold.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

For starters she sounds like she has some kind of disorder that makes her crave unnecessary surgeries. An internet search would reveal if there is a documented disorder of such. 

And any surgeon that does a lapband surgery on a healthy, 125lb woman should be reported to that state's licensing board. But unfortunately there are a lot of surgeons who basically do surgeries on demand. But that is a whole other issue. 

As far as your wife, I will say that you are not crazy or dreaming - this is really happening. 

I am 53 so your wife and I are right around the same age and I will say that people my age (men and women) do develop a bit of a "screw-you. I-am-going-to-do-what-I-want" attitude. 

At her early-mid 50s, she is no longer bearing and nurturing children, she is no longer striving and struggling to move up in her career, no longer being the good little supportive wifey supporting her husband's career, and she is financially secure enough that she can go out and buy a Harley and cover her body in inch if she wants. 

This is the age that many women simply just walk away from their husbands and their previous lifestyles and do whatever they want. And when their adult children whine and moan about how they are disrupting Christmas dinner plans with their selfishness, they tell these adult children to suck it up and grow a pair and deal with it because she's not cooking any more turkey dinners or shopping for the perfect place mats anymore. 

Your wife is not doing anything illegal or harmful. She is simply becoming who and what she is wanting to be and that may or may not include being your wife or who you want her to be. 

cont...


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi TJW

You sound just like my friends . Yes when I head to FL this winter one of the things I have to do is get my will in line. Seeing a lawyer is great advice. Thank You. 

I have a list of prescription meds she takes. We share the list as it gets updated and changed for the just in case scenario. The drugs like Methotrexate 4 times a day are the ones that bother me. It hurts to see someone slowly kill themselves. She is smart. I doubt she would ever OD. But, she will continue with these doctors who help keep her feet a couple of inches off the ground. 

I'm not looking forward to the day she's laying in bed cold. It's something I really don't want to see. Ya know she was my buddy. The thing that gets me is she see's life as normal and is oblivious to what those see around her. 

We don't dine with friends anymore cause she doesn't fit in with people who know which fork to use for the salad. Her only conversations are Motorcycles, Tattoo's or Piercings. She could care less about the rest of the world.

I guess I'm now coming to the realization that she's never going to be the person I married again. We haven't been intimate for many years. I'm not the husband that's going to run around for sex. But, I feel in my older years I'm being deprived of enjoying what the world is offering you.

I would never get divorced. I know what it is like to start all over again as I did that once before. At 65 I doubt it would be fun. Plus if I did, she couldn't afford to live or medicate herself as I am the primary source of income & health coverage. 

I'm still kinda stuck in between decisions

Tom


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now as what you can do about it, you are kind of in the same situation and have the same options. 

You are retired, have no minor children together and you have the financial ways and means to live the kind of life you want to live. 

If she isn't fitting into your lifestyle wishes and plans, I am sure you have some buddies that are lawyers and accountants and you can all devise a plan to dissolve the marriage, protect an acceptable amount of your assets and each of you can amicably split and each of you go do your own thing. 

Good chance you will be able to find lots of retired grandmothers that would love to tend to the house while you golf and would love to bake Christmas dinner for the grandkids and would love to travel with you. 

And being a bit of a biker myself (although I traded my Harley for a Triumph a few years back LOL) I know as fact she will have a myriad of tattooed, bearded, leather-clad bikers that would love to have her along for the ride. 

You both are at an age and a station in life where you can each do whatever you want and pursue whatever lifestyle you want. If those goals and objections and future plans line up and click with each other, that is great. 

But if you each have different wants and desires and different goals and agendas, then there really is no lasting harm or damage in each of you wishing each other well, giving each other a hug and going on your separate journeys.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> For starters she sounds like she has some kind of disorder that makes her crave unnecessary surgeries. An internet search would reveal if there is a documented disorder of such.
> 
> And any surgeon that does a lapband surgery on a healthy, 125lb woman should be reported to that state's licensing board. But unfortunately there are a lot of surgeons who basically do surgeries on demand. But that is a whole other issue.
> 
> ...


Holy Cow do you know her????? We have heard those exact words sooooooooo many times. I feel bad for the kids.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I’m afraid I agree with TJW...it sounds like drug addiction to me. As long as they are prescribed, she’s going to think it’s ok. Addiction changes the whole persona. The surgeries are probably just a good excuse to get some more. 

I don’t really have advice for you. Addicts only get clean when they’re ready to and she may never be. 

I like the advice about locking the money down before your savings are shot. Protect yourself. Other than that, I doubt there’s much you can do for her. She has to want it for herself. 

My sympathies...opioid addiction is rampant these days 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> Hi TJW
> 
> You sound just like my friends . Yes when I head to FL this winter one of the things I have to do is get my will in line. Seeing a lawyer is great advice. Thank You.
> 
> ...


So you're just going to suck it up and be her non-intimate cash cow as you both head off into that dark night with no awakening? If you died right now do you think she'd care or calculate how to get another source? Addiction is scary ****. Are you willing to be treated this way for the rest of your life? Are you willing to watch her spiral and be her anchor through it all?


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Hi Oldshirt

I've gone that route with friend Attorneys financial advice. I stand to lose too much and I do not want to give up anything I spent many years working for to be honest with you. Plus, she wouldn't be able to live. Her income is spending money. It would cost me to fully support her plus, I carry the health insurance. Upon divorce it immediately stops. 

That's why I am trying to avoid divorce. If I want I can keep the status quo and spend 6+ mos in FL every year and leave well enough alone until either one of us passes on. 

That's the part I struggle with if I should shrug everything off and continue life that way.

Tom


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

growing_weary said:


> So you're just going to suck it up and be her non-intimate cash cow as you both head off into that dark night with no awakening? If you died right now do you think she'd care or calculate how to get another source? Addiction is scary ****. Are you willing to be treated this way for the rest of your life? Are you willing to watch her spiral and be her anchor through it all?


That is what I am fighting with deep inside. Should I/shouldn't I

I gotta run right now, I'll talk to yas later. Thank you so far x 1,000


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> any surgeon that does a lapband surgery on a healthy, 125lb woman should be reported to that state's licensing board.


I agree with this logic. I'm sure many qualified health-care professionals will, too. But, I want to tell you that the same logic applied when my wife's doc kept on giving her horse-doses of oxycontin even though it was reported to him that she was hospitalized with ODs. I reported it. They did nothing.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If you don't want to divorce, you can legally separate. Or just informally separate. You can spend your time in Florida and she can spend her time wherever.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Along with the MLC, which usually appears at age 45-49, she is having a Death Crisis.

She sees her body failing. She has rheumatoid arthritis and likely on powerful pain killers. Some of these are mood changers, big time.

She knows [or think she knows] that her productive and good years are almost over. She is burning the candle at both ends. 

She was bored. Not now!

Oh, she is getting laid left and right by these biker dudes. That is a given.

You may be older than her [*this factor plays into this]. But you will live a better life.

You are golfing and doing normal retirement activities. She finds this boring.

Let her go.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

golfer6760 said:


> Hi Oldshirt
> 
> I've gone that route with friend Attorneys financial advice. I stand to lose too much and I do not want to give up anything I spent many years working for to be honest with you. Plus, she wouldn't be able to live. Her income is spending money. It would cost me to fully support her plus, I carry the health insurance. Upon divorce it immediately stops.
> 
> ...


You're only 65! You could have multiple decades of life left. In my opinion, you're foolish not to divorce. You do NOT have to give up the rest of your life for hers.

A divorce would hopefully equitably split the assets you aquired during the marriage. 

It's nice of you to worry about her health care, but she is pretty young. Maybe that's for her to figure out either through employment, or the healthcare assistance that's out there. 

You two are certainly not moving through life as a "married couple" anymore.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Golfer...it sounds that the both of you will stay married but separate lives...if that is what you want understand she might still be intimate but not with you....and if she is still working then I would limit the funds you provide her for her wild side...I would strongly suggest controlling your funds so she is not supporting a boy toy like Larry king wife did.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@golfer6760

With all due respect, you need to seriously wake up and smell the coffee and you also need to seriously challenge your beliefs and examine your core values. 

You are correct that she is *NOT* the person you married. She has changed/morphed/evolved into someone else and this person does not respect you, desire you, is not sexually attracted to you and does not want to be a part of your world. 

This may be sad, it may be distressing and it may even be heartbreaking- but it is a reality. You are going to have to face and deal with it whether you like it or want to or not. 

You need to challenge your beliefs about divorce and pursuing your own dreams and protecting your own well being and self interests.

You need to examine your own core values and determine if your own well being and long term health and happiness is worth the short term pain and expense of a divorce. 

What's hurting you and keeping you in such a sucky situation is not really her bad behavior, but rather your beliefs and values of what a marriage should be. 

You need to go to the mountain and meditate on this and come up with a plan for preserving your own well being and future life going forward.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

..... And as a side note, you say you haven't had sex in years.

The truth is YOU haven't had sex in years.

She's been having a lot if it and probably as recently as last week. 

You are being naive, irresponsible, have your head in the sand and are played as a fool.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Lap band on a 125 woman sounds crazy but on the other hand you dis not hention how tall she is. At 5'5 125# is a great weight. But not so much if she is 4'8


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> Help me please.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Tom


After reading your post to my husband, he says:
"Contact a good divorce lawyer."

You literally have no idea what she's doing for entire winters at a time.
If this is a serious post, I'm shocked you have let things go on for this long.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She's a biker girl and takes lots of medication.

She got a lap band at 125#'s?

Yeah, she's riding more than bikes.

I'm sorry. You sound like a great, no SUPER, enabler, and also a very nice person.

Youre65, you're not dead yet. Show some grit.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> I stand to lose too much and I do not want to give up anything I spent many years working for to be honest with you. Plus, she wouldn't be able to live. Her income is spending money. It would cost me to fully support her plus, I carry the health insurance. Upon divorce it immediately stops.
> 
> 
> 
> Tom


This is what people are referring to when they say you are enabling. 

You are using her failings and inadequacies as your excuse for inaction. 

Her income, her spending habits and her health insurance are HER problem and her issues to deal with and address. Not yours. 

You are just using this as an excuse for your own inaction and your own misery. 

There are no martyrs here and no coddling. You will get tough love and direct advice on how to best deal with the realities of your situation. You will not get spoon-fed on what soothing words to tell her so that she magically transforms into June Cleaver. 

If you want to live a life where you are not being taken advantage of and used as a bill-payer and Cash Cow for a pill-popper and tattooed biker's old lady who is screwing a band of bikers while you pick up her prescription from Walgreens, then you are going to have to grow your own pair and take responsibility for your own life and your own well being.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

Bikers, dope, wacked out broad, and a gun....what could possibly go wrong?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Methotrexate has probably damaged her brain.

The side effects 'can be' horrendous.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Well before showing some grit or getting a divorce I have looked in to a lot of what can happen if I bite off my nose to spite my face.

I doubt she is sexually involved with anybody. She spends 97% of her time within my sight besides work 3 mornings a week. I know her well and that's not her. Her bike sits in the garage 99% of the time all summer. The only times she associates with the Biker crowd is for fund raisers & I have a couple of friends who belong to the club and know my situation. So, I doubt any sex is involved.
Her involvement in Motorcycles is all a surprise to me in the past 5 or so years. Every day she gets up and wears Harley clothes. Never anything else. It's almost like Halloween every day.

As far as getting divorced I've already been told by my attorney I would be a fool. Between her and I we own two properties. One up North and the other in FL. Value close to 1.2 Million. The rest of our assets accumulated together are small. We always had His accounts, Her accounts then ours to run the household. We have no debt between us so that will be a non issue.
So, If I get divorced the two homes will need to be liquidated for starters. I myself do not want to lose either of them. I like them personally. For me to buy her out, I would need to cough up $500K. Or, buy her out then sell one. Neither scenario do I want to do. 
No way in hell could she ever afford to buy me out. That would be impossible.

The other thing I was warned about in divorce by my lawyer was Alimony. With her small income and health condition (RA) it would be a shoe in for her to be awarded Alimony. Then there's the issue of Health Care. The Attorney said that could become my responsibility in court depending how things went.

So, rather than bite off my nose to spite my face do I keep my mouth shut for 5 months a year and let her to have her fantasies & prescribed drugs under my nose 5 months a year in return for 6-7 months of peace and quiet in FL during the cold weather months. ????????????

There's a lot of things I could lose. Besides my houses, I own 3 Corvettes, a Monte Carlo and a couple of ne daily drivers for both of us. I belong to two Country Clubs. One in FL and one up North. Numerous musical instruments and so on. Yes I live good right now and I know that. My fear is messing it all up.

You also have to understand this was my buddy. It's hard to walk away and say FU. We did everything together. In fact, when I'm around now we still do everything together. But, the Tattoos, Piercings, Harley Davidson Attire and the mouth was never my vision of my future wife 10 years ago. At times it can be downright embarrassing.

So I am stuck IMO and don't really know what to do. 

Tom


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Methotrexate has probably damaged her brain.
> 
> The side effects 'can be' horrendous.


I understand that. Plus, Lyrica injections once a week & Tramadol daily.

Now she just started infusions of Rituxan 3 times 2 weeks apart every six months.

This is all prescribed by a doctor. I've tried to complain and I am told the HIPA laws even though we have a Proxy make me mind my own business.

Even the AG office says they feel bad for me and cannot step in.

Any suggestions????


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> This is what people are referring to when they say you are enabling.
> 
> You are using her failings and inadequacies as your excuse for inaction.
> 
> ...



Like I said, I doubt she is screwing anybody. I'd be surprised for sure. As far as me, I can do anything I want. If I said to her I'm leaving for FL tomorrow she'd say have fun, drive me to the airport and give me a kiss on the cheek goodbye. 
There's never been any mistrust in our relationship. The problem is the change of personality in to some one else and how do I handle it. separate or ignore. I know I will never change it.

I'm not looking for anything sugar coated. I just need people to talk to and get constructive advice that is correct.

Tom 

Tom


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

golfer6760 said:


> Well before showing some grit or getting a divorce I have looked in to a lot of what can happen if I bite off my nose to spite my face.
> 
> I doubt she is sexually involved with anybody. She spends 97% of her time within my sight besides work 3 mornings a week. I know her well and that's not her. Her bike sits in the garage 99% of the time all summer. The only times she associates with the Biker crowd is for fund raisers & I have a couple of friends who belong to the club and know my situation. So, I doubt any sex is involved.
> Her involvement in Motorcycles is all a surprise to me in the past 5 or so years. Every day she gets up and wears Harley clothes. Never anything else. It's almost like Halloween every day.
> ...


I'm not trying to be mean, be why did you even post for advice?

You have assets such that even if you had to divide ALL of it in half, you could still live a comfortable life. You just don't want to. You don't want to give up your million dollar properties and your other "stuff". So if your material things are more important than getting free of a marriage that isn't a marriage and you have already made that determination, what are you looking for here??


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Well, sir, I've BTDT, so I know that your attorney is telling you the absolute truth. Like my attorney told me, "...you can't get rid of someone like this....". You may indeed be wise to keep things as they are. It may cost you a hell of a lot less to just let her have her "personality change".... after all, you pretty much do what you want and have plenty of assets to live the rest of your life without having been taken to the cleaners.

The advice I would give you is to be sure she can't get hold of your assets and spend them out from under you while you pursue what makes you happy. Drug addicts cannot be trusted. And, you cannot make "deals" with them. BTDT, too. The most important thing in the world to them is their next "fix". And, that is just as true of prescription drugs as it is of street drugs.

They will send you to hell in a rowboat to get it. No one matters as much as the drugs. No thing matters as much as the drugs.



golfer6760 said:


> So, rather than bite off my nose to spite my face do I keep my mouth shut for 5 months a year and let her to have her fantasies & prescribed drugs under my nose 5 months a year in return for 6-7 months of peace and quiet in FL during the cold weather months. ????????????


Bottom line: You cannot keep her from having prescribed drugs. If it were street drugs, you could turn her in and have her put in the slam. But no law enforcement activity will do anything about drugs prescribed by a doctor.

Bottom line: Her fantasies are not something you can change. She will have her fantasies whether she lives them out or not. And nothing you can say, nothing you can do, will make her change her mind about them. There are no "magic words which change her into June Cleaver"


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

It all comes down to costs vs benefits. 

If you would rather live with some pill-popping, fireball haired, foul mouthed biker broad that screws other dudes but hasn't touched you in years so you don't have to put a house or a car on the market, that is your perogative. 

I don't know what more you want from us then. There is no magic phrase or magic words that will turn her into June Cleaver or transform her into a Stepford Wife or one of the other country club women.

This is largely about boundaries and personal preferences and limits to what you will take. And as long as your houses and cars and country club memberships are intact, you have no other boundaries or limits to what you will endure. 

If you are ok kissing her good night knowing where that mouth has been, as long as it doesn't inconvenience your checkbook in any way; that is your business.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

golfer6760 said:


> I understand that. Plus, Lyrica injections once a week & Tramadol daily.
> 
> Now she just started infusions of Rituxan 3 times 2 weeks apart every six months.
> 
> ...


Make an appointment to see the main prescribing doctor yourself. If possible, get a 'Medical Power of Attorney' signed by her. Tell your' wife you are concerned and wish to discuss the side effects with her doctor. Is this a specialist or her primary care doctor, PCP that is doing most of the prescriptions?

Bring a list of all medications taken by her to the doctor. Explain the sudden change in behavior. 

Good luck. If you do succeed, you are going to have a wild women on your' hands. She sounds like she is falling apart.

And yes, she is going to need her sexual needs attended to. That was a mistake on your' part. 
*A spouse whose enjoys sex must never be abandoned and left to their own devices. *
Unless, of course, she pushed you away, repeatedly.

Wow...:|


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> Hi TJW
> 
> You sound just like my friends . Yes when I head to FL this winter one of the things I have to do is get my will in line. Seeing a lawyer is great advice. Thank You.
> 
> ...


Methotrexate. The last time I heard of this drug in the USA was that it is prescribed for only a set period, then the patient is taken off it for three months. This is because it is a dangerous drug.

It's possible your wife has some form of dementia-related condition. Has this possibility been addressed?


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Livvie said:


> I'm not trying to be mean, be why did you even post for advice?
> 
> You have assets such that even if you had to divide ALL of it in half, you could still live a comfortable life. You just don't want to. You don't want to give up your million dollar properties and your other "stuff". So if your material things are more important than getting free of a marriage that isn't a marriage and you have already made that determination, what are you looking for here??


You are right, I do not want to give up half of what I worked hard many years for. Granted she was a part of the growth we accumulated over the years. Only she was on a much smaller scale. You can't help that when it's called "Us". What I am looking for are different views and to feel like I should be leaving for FL again in November and returning in May or June. Of course I will return for the Holidays before anybody asks. I still have two grown children and seven grandkids.




SunCMars said:


> Make an appointment to see the main prescribing doctor yourself. If possible, get a 'Medical Power of Attorney' signed by her. Tell your' wife you are concerned and wish to discuss the side effects with her doctor. Is this a specialist or her primary care doctor, PCP that is doing most of the prescriptions?
> 
> Bring a list of all medications taken by her to the doctor. Explain the sudden change in behavior.
> 
> ...



The only person I have been able to sit with and have a conversation regarding her prescribed drugs was a local Pharmacist. We reviewed each one and he explained the good and the bad. Twas a great education. As for advice, he recommended a local home for people just like her who are having drug addiction problems. The only problem is she will not agree or acknowledge she has a problem. In her mind, life is normal.
As far as the sexual problems, she has told me she has no desire for sex. Period. That's not my fault and something she is adamant will never change.

Her doctor and other doctors have refused to talk to me about her medications or prognosis.



MattMatt said:


> Methotrexate. The last time I heard of this drug in the USA was that it is prescribed for only a set period, then the patient is taken off it for three months. This is because it is a dangerous drug.
> 
> It's possible your wife has some form of dementia-related condition. Has this possibility been addressed?


Yes it is possible there's another problem. I have always leaned toward Bi-Polar. She seams to fit all the symptoms. Every time I mention something as a side effect or another avenue for help or diagnosis she says "Oh since when have you become a doctor". Her idea of looking up something regarding her drugs or prognosis is kids stuff she says. So, I back off.


To all who have posted so far:

I am not looking to get divorced. Yes I agree I can run away with half the assets and still live a good life. But, I am not interested in spending a couple of years dealing with Lawyers & the Court system and then starting over at 65. It's not something I am up to taking on right now. Things that suck are the no intimate times with the opposite sex. I ponder whether I should just find another person of the opposite sex during my stays in FL and enjoy the years I have left. Or, continue waiting for someone to change back (which I am getting closer to the realization it will never happen) to the person she once was. 
We had a million things on the bucket list to do as retiree's. Now the bucket has a lid on it, but I can open it if I want. But, I'm not sure if I should pursue the items in the bucket on my own. Believe me if I cam home one day and said hey I shipped one of the vettes to northern CA and I'm gonna take a couple weeks and drive down Rt 1 to see the coast next week she'd say go ahead have fun. These bucket list things were supposed to be done by Us, and now that's never gonna happen.

So, do I give up $500k+++ in assets and a couple years getting my feet on the ground or do I just ignore her letting her live in her clouded world and do what I want when I want.

Again I will say: I know her and I will say you have better odds hitting the lottery than her having a sexual relationship with someone else.

Tom


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@golfer6760, she needs a professional evaluation.

There are several issues that are potential causes for concern.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Meh...just go ahead and let her commit a drawn out suicide and do what you want to do. Is that what you wanted to hear?

My God man. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

“I need HELP please” is the title of your thread. The stuff you’ve posted and the responses you’ve given make it sound like you just want someone, ANYone to tell you that you are helpless and have been all along and looking for justification on your inaction. You LET this car roll in the ditch a LONG time ago and now you want someone to say awww...there there. You poor poor soul. Something to point to when the medics come for her body and say this person told me not to do anything! I don’t think you’re going to get that here dude. 

You sound like a greedy, selfish to me. Materialistic to the bone. No wonder she stays high.

Good luck with that. 

Edited to delete the stuff that would send me to ban land 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Ok...

Now, some hard love.
And a tight grip on your' money.

Control her spending as best as you can.
Enable her wild life style.

She will be dead in a few years, long before You Old-Timer.

Pretty harsh advice that you probably will like...not me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> . But, I am not interested in spending a couple of years dealing with Lawyers & the Court system and then starting over at 65.


You're going to be 65 in a couple years whether you keep her on your payroll and keep being her parent or whether you split up and live your own life.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> So, do I give up $500k+++ in assets and a couple years getting my feet on the ground or do I just ignore her letting her live in her clouded world and do what I want when I want.


So have you actually met with an actual divorce lawyer that works with high-end divorces in your jurisdiction and had them go through your situation and have them give you an honest assessment of what a divorce would really be like for you or are you just taking your buddy's word for it who could be a patent lawyer or a corporate lawyer or an estate lawyer that you brought up in passing during a golf game for all we know?

Does your wife want a divorce? Would she be ok with taking only what she needed to live reasonably just to get away from you? 

Have you actually discussed any of this with a real divorce attorney in your jurisdiction or are you just making assumptions based on general comments you've overheard at the country club?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now I am going to say something that you will probably appreciate and have been wanting to hear -

I don't care if you start hooking up with other women or not. 

She has stated to your face that she does not want to have sex with you and that it will not change. 

Some of the other posters will disagree but as far as I am concerned, since she hasn't had sex with you for many years and has stated up front that she won't be sexual with you in the future, what you do with your genitalia is none of her business. IMHO she has waived all exclusive rights to your sexuality and has no say in what you do with your junk. 

As far as I am concerned, you can bring women home and pound them in the guest room or even ask her to vacate the marital bed for a night so you can bring other women home. 

The catch here is quality of woman that will accept being a side piece while you subsidize your pill-popping biker chic of a wife, but if you are good with it, then so be it. 

If you choose to remain celibate and subsidize a woman who denies you while she screws bikers, that is your choice. 

But if you choose to try to get what poon you can while subsidizing her so you don't lose a 'vette, that is your choice as well.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Far from the truth Liz. I'm reaching out trying to figure out what to do and how to do it correctly for the both of us. And of course I have to think of myself. I'd be a fool not to. I've exhausted the let's sit down and talk or the doctor knows best BS. She's not going to listen to me. She like taking the bottle in a bag from the wine o on the street corner. He'll fight you to the death if you touched that bottle. Same scenario here, don't mess with my meds. I've heard it 100 times. I'm torn between giving up or not. If I was worried about me only I would have gotten divorced when this all started. But, I've hung in there for years being there and hoping for a positive change. So, don't rag on my ass for something you are totally assuming and know little about. 

Believe me if I don't financially & medically stick around she'd be in the gutter or dead. That's the last thing I want. In a nut shell, I would like my honey back for my greed and her sake. IMO I don't call that selfish sweetheart. It's called tough love.

Tom


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

At least take steps to protect yourself financially. Money alerts on withdraws and such. You can get text to warn you. Put savings away so she an make large withdraws with out effort and you knowing about it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> So, do I give up $500k+++ in assets and a couple years getting my feet on the ground


Since you are a man of dollars and cents and materialism and you obviously have some financial acumen, have you pulled out a calculator and figured up how much she is costing you if you keep her?

Assuming you live another 25 years, how much is her annual upkeep and ongoing expenses are times 25 more years. 

$500k upfront now to get rid of her might be getting off cheap and easy. 

The thing is, if you keep her around, you know it's only going to get worse and you won't be able to live the life you want with her around. It may cost some bucks up front and it may take awhile for everything to be signed, sealed and delivered; but you will wake up every day with it being a new day with new possibilities and a clean slate. 

If you keep her around, you know you will be stuck in the status quo. 

I agree with Elizabeth that you are a very selfish, materialistic person.....but I'm not sure you are calculating all the costs into this thoroughly and looking at your true costs and benefits. 

There is such a thing as being penny wise and dollar foolish. 

If she was laying you like tile and was good sugar baby or even a good housekeeper, cook, house manager and keeper of the social calendar, I'd give you some slack. 

But she sounds like deadweight to me. For someone that's been gloating about your property, financial assets and social status, you don't sound like a good accountant or house administrator to me. 

Enlighten us again on what benefit she brings to the table here to justify the ongoing costs associated with keeping her???


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Oldshirt

I'm stuck between a hard place and a rock. Who she is today is the person I don't like anymore. But, I still have a heart and could never throw her out on the street. Don't forget she was my best buddy for a lot of years, so it's hard to walk away. 

As far as losing half my assets, you bet your rear end I don't want to. I worked hard to earn what I have and I'm not about to give half of it away to a person with a problem. Spouse or not. She would pee through that money or assets in no time. That would be dumb relinquishing half my assets to be thrown away. As much as possible by law will go to my grandkids when that time comes. At least while I am around I can and still control all the finances & my money. She has proven she cannot handle the responsibility of household finances and knows it very well. She pee's away the little income she makes working part time on who knows what, and I don't care. It's her little portion of independency IMO, so have a good time. I don't give her one red cent anymore. Yes, I pay for everything needed to survive, but when it comes to blow money, she's on her own.

And again for some reason you do not want to listen. She's not screwing with anybody. That much I know and trust. Believe me on this or I would have walked away at first knowledge.

Should I seek an intimate relationship??? That's something I'm still stuck on. Do I or don't I. I haven't convinced myself of either scenario yet.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> Again I will say: I know her and I will say you have better odds hitting the lottery than her having a sexual relationship with someone else.


This is simple denial. 

If you want to know the actual truth, simply shell out a few bucks for a PI to go through her computer, email, social media, phone and txt records and place a VAR and GPS in her car(s) and you will have your answer in very short order. 

I was a serial AP in my younger single days. I can tell you from first hand experience that cheating wives do not do the moonlight walks on the beach till the wee hours of the morning or candlelight dinners at 5-star restaurants or even Saturday night dates to the movies. 

When married women have a lover on the side it is a 5 minute BJ in the back of the park on their way home from the grocery store or taking the cat to the vet. It is parking in the back of shopping mall parking lot walking quickly through the alley to back door of the Holiday Inn Express and the clothes hit the floor as she walks in the room. 

And yes, when you are out of town or away for business or golfing with buddies, the OM(s) will slip into the house. 

You're gone out of state for months over the winter, do you honestly think she is hanging out with these bikers and not boning them? C'mon man, if you are sincere about wanting to address your issues are you really going to sit there and tell us that pill-popping, 125lb woman with a lapband, covered in piercings and tattoos with colored fiery red hair is really not hopping on these bikers she is hanging with? 

Ok, she's not doing it every day and she's not doing it the days you are home and doing things with her, we get that. But are you going to sit there and tell us that she been celibate all these years despite all these other behaviors???

At some point everyone has to wake up and face their own reality.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Oldshirt I can't quote anymore. The system only allows 10

The cost to me is minimal. Her blow money is her own earnings. I don't know how much it is and I don't ask. Every other cost goes through me. Whatever it may be. She goes Christmas shopping as an example & I pay the bill. Simple. As I said, we've gone this nasty route once already and she knows she sucks handling the money & Bils. That left her hands years ago.

Yes she is deadweight to you. But you forget, I've known this person for 25 years. Things were great till 5 yrs or so ago. I'm not the kind of person to throw her out cause she's changed. Yes I don't like it. But, I'm trying to figure a way to handle it. 

I am appalled you and Liz call me selfish. Why would I want to release so much money to someone who I know will pee through it in a few years and end up with zero. I'm trying to figure a way to be happy without losing half our assets and everything we've worked for 20 years. You throw away half of everything you own not to have a PIA by your side. I'd call you dumb for sure.

This all started with a person who's personality changed 180 degrees. I asked for help how to handle it and what to do. I never mentioned Divorce or I can't wait till her death. You and some posters did. Please don't stretch this out of proportion.

Tom M


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Oldshirt

It's not denial. One, I do trust her. Again we've been friends for a lot of years. Two, she doesn't go anywhere without me when I'm around. To work and from is the only time she drives. Or I'll have her drive one of my cars to a show if I'm displaying two. That's it.

Tracking a person is simple. Todays new cars with GPS and phone controls provide real time car locations via your phone. She knows how to use the systems just as well as I do. When I'm away, the house is secure via security & cameras. She's a homebody and in bed every night by 7:30pm. I'd know immediately if any window or door was open or is there was any motion outside. And, so wouldn't she. So, I'm not in denial cause nothing is happening. And if I am that stupid shame on me.

The same goes for the house in FL. She knows when I'm coming and going. When the garage doors open or close. The immediate video will tell if a vehicle left or not. 

Again, there is trust between the both of us there. Tattoos, Piercings and fire red hair doesn't mean a person is porking everything in sight. To you maybe. But not to most.

Again I asked for help, suggestions and experiences. Not assumptions without facts.

Thanks

Tom


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> And again for some reason you do not want to listen. She's not screwing with anybody. That much I know and trust. Believe me on this or I would have walked away at first knowledge.
> 
> .


OK, I will listen to what you are basing this assertion of her fidelity on. It's hard to prove a negative, but share with us what honest, and good-faith investigation you have done into what extracurricular activities she may be involved in. 

Have you hired a PI to follow her and investigate her activities while you are out of town or you are in Fl for the winter?

Have you hacked into her computer and installed keylogging programs to see if she has any hidden email accounts or social media accounts? 

Have you hacked into her phone or made serious attempts to recover any deleted txts or any Snapchats or other two-way communication apps?

Have you obtained phone records from her provider to cross reference any phone incoming or outgoing phone calls?

Have you searched every single inch and nook and cranny of the house and her vehicles for a burner phone that she may be using to communicate with other people?

Have you placed VARs and GPS monitors in her car(s) to see what conversations she may be having in her car or other places she may be having private conversations? 

Have you gone through the house with a fine-tooth comb like a CSI gut to see if she has any lingerie or sex toys or paraphernalia that she has never had around you? 

Have you searched every inch of the house for any hotel keys or anything from a hotel that you were not involved with? 

Have you contracted with a licensed, credentialed and reputable polygraph examiner and had her under go a thorough polygraph examination?

Have you ever met with and had a serious one-one discussion about her fidelity with any of her best friends or close relatives and outright asked them if they think she has ever strayed and then watched them closely for any signs of lying or covering for her?

Have you sincerely put your heart and soul into looking for any kind of evidence and consistently come up empty handed each and every time?

In essence what I am asking you is other than seeing her at home frequently (which I do not question) what evidence do you have that she has not been with anyone else at any time during the years of your sexual drought????

Other than your word that she is at the house when you are there most of the time, what evidence of her fidelity can you give us?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

golfer6760 said:


> *Should I seek an intimate relationship???* That's something I'm still stuck on. Do I or don't I. I haven't convinced myself of either scenario yet.


The answer to the bolded is NO. You are married. If you want an intimate relationship, get divorced, then find another woman.

You won't find anyone on this site who will encourage you to have an affair. If you want another woman in your life without getting divorced the only way to do it is to ask your wife if she minds if you have a woman on the side. (I am not in favor of this, BTW) 

If she says yes, go for it, and get ready for her to do the same (if she is not already.) 

You might also get ready for her to blow up at the suggestion of it. That might just put the fire in her to get her act together, or to divorce you for suggesting such a thing.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

She's a mess, that is for certain.

She's a hypochondriac who is indulged by her doctors. She's also at that age where some women feel a very powerful primal scream. A lot of this is hormonal; a lot is just being completely fed up with taking care of everyone in their lives but themselves (at least that's how they see it).

It sounds like you used to have a partner with class and judgment. Now you have someone with no class and poor judgment.

You don't want to divorce for financial reasons, so why not separate, as some here have suggested?

She needs a professional to throw away all the drugs so that she can detox. Then they can take a fresh look at her health issues, hopefully prescribing a saner and healthier approach.

Look, Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson both had doctors prescribing for them & their treatment killed them.

Your W needs an intervention and help. She's definitely disturbed.

If you think any effort on your part is hopeless, then separate and let things play out with her.

I don't blame you one bit for not wanting a wife like this.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Golfer, I get it you have more to lose getting divorce then living with her behaviors..bot old shirt does have a point, you really don't know what she is doing while your in Florida on the golf course..let's be honest....I am assuming there was no pre-nun in place right?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> Again I asked for help, suggestions and experiences. Not assumptions without facts.


You and I were both posting at the same time so it appears we are going in circles but we're really not. 

But anyway, from my perspective YOU are the one making assumptions not facts if you have not made an honest effort to investigate her possible extra curricular activities. 

I don't have to prove she is cheating. All I have to do is raise the question based on reasonable suspicion and urge you to make an honest effort to uncover the truth. 

You asked for help and advice on your situation and many of us immediately picked up suspicious behaviors on her part that leads to questioning her sexual fidelity. 

All we have to do is raise the question and then point you in the direction on how to investigate it. 

My multiple posts are not meant to badger or harass you or abuse you, but rather seeking an explanation on why you are so positive that she hasn't stepped out of bounds at some point. 

If you come back and say that you have done all of the things I mentioned in my previous post, then I would say that you have done your homework and your due diligence and if everything came out negative, then it would be best to shift your time and efforts into other avenues. 

But on the other hand, if you have not done ANY of those things, then you have not done your due diligence in addressing some pretty glaring red flags. 

I'm really not trying to be a jerk, we're all on your side here, just trying to get some answers and addressing some concerns that to the rest of us that have been on these forums for years, see as immediate warning signs.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TJW said:


> My friend, I had a wife like this too. She wasn't a biker and didn't have any tattoos. But the "drugs" part was the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for this story. I know someone it may benefit.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Oldshirt

No I have not done one thing you mentioned. I still don't believe I need to. My wife is honest and getting Tattoo's, Piercings, friends with people who like Motorcycles or prescribed drugs for RA immediately labels her as a cheat. I don't believe it and probably never will. She has been honest with me for 25 years and visa versa. IMO getting caught snooping like CSI would constitute a divorce. I am dealing with a personality change not a criminal.

Alte Dame

I think you are on the right path. She is obsessed with going to doctors for every little fart. She goes back and forth from being constipated to the rivers flowing out of control. We finally got an appointment with a Gastroenterologist Specialist. We both sat & went over her diet, habits, drug list and talked in general. He had no problem with the drug list. (I do) and recommended a few dietary changes and to see her doctor about adjusting her Thyroid medication. Here we sit a week later and nothing has been done. It's status quo. She will sit on her thumbs until I push the issue. Why is she not helping herself? To date: The diet has not changed & no phone call to the doctor for her Thyroid med adjustment.

I can go on and on regarding doctors she has seen that have recommended something and it goes in one ear out the other. WHY?????

I go to every appointment she has no matter what the problem besides the Dentist. If I'm in FL I hop right on a plane and I'm there in 4hrs. Lots of times I fly up and head back the next morning for a tee time. I'm interested in helping with the problem not being nosey. It is my wife. She does the same for me if I need to go to the doctors for something above a rotten cold.

Lost in Thought 61

Yes I have more to lose than hanging in there. My goal is to fix the problem for the both of us. IMO getting divorced is the selfish way to go. 

Araucaria 

I don't have any intentions of having a relationship with anybody else. That would be downright wrong. I wouldn't like it done to me so why should I do it. Yes, as a normal male at times I do get the urge. I'm not dead. Instead I move on with one of my hobbies. I don't drink or smoke or take drugs. Also, I'd rather shoot a 68 in golf than have sex. That's what life becomes at 65.  

To the Forum

I am looking to find out why this is happening to her. All of a sudden out of nowhere after being put on RA medications she falls in love with Tattoo's, Motorcycles, Piercings and has changed her eating habits and likes Steamers :-o. It's not so much liking the steamers as I could care less. It's telling me she liked them all her life which I know better. She's hated them for 25 years that I know of.
I also have the guilty side bothering me. Was it something I did??? I never cheated so I know that's not the problem. I don't drink or do drugs. If I'm home after the street lights go on that's late for me. We have most everything in life one would want. We're not super rich, but do very well for ourselves. Toy's & social lives were great. Freedom is ours. We have a beautiful family with two great sons and seven grandkids. So, I keep on saying to myself where's the cliff and how did she fall off. My goal is to catch her before she hit's the bottom. Again, she has been and is my buddy.
I know she doesn't like going to Florida. She's told me 100 times she is not interested in hanging out with people her mothers age who's idea of social fun is going to a restaurant with a bunch of old ladies who are disproportionate to weight & height as she says and down bottle of wine at lunch and rag on how their husbands suck. Then on top of that drive. Holy cow she would get mad and tell them so. On the other hand she's said 100 times, go to FL with your friends and enjoy your retirement. Play golf and have fun with your cars. Most of my friends are jealous of me cause their wives don't trust them. 
I've been living with her for many years and we shared everything. IMO something happened. Did she look at life and puke when she became 50??? Both her parents passed away young. Her mom of congestive heart failure at 52 and her dad at 56 of esophageal cancer. Are the drugs and joint replacements her way of staying alive??? Are the Tattoo's, Piercings & Motorcycles her way of staying young? I know she is pro staying young and very fit. She goes to the gym 3-4 times a week and works out. She's on my ass contently to eat right. The only time I have a burger with fries is after golf when she's not there. I don't have to listen to the lecture then  I hope that's not called cheating :-o. 

So hear me out and stop assuming she's screwing every motorcycle that drives by & I should watch more CSI to learn their techniques for conducting the perfect investigation. The problem is elsewhere, Mentally or Physically and I need help finding the root cause to either help her if possible or understand what's happening myself.

Tom


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Livvie said:


> I'm not trying to be mean, be why did you even post for advice?
> 
> You have assets such that even if you had to divide ALL of it in half, you could still live a comfortable life. You just don't want to. You don't want to give up your million dollar properties and your other "stuff". So if your material things are more important than getting free of a marriage that isn't a marriage and you have already made that determination, what are you looking for here??


I was going to post the same thing, but didn't want to sound mean, either. I totally agree, however. The "stuff" is more important. :|

That's just not a concept I can wrap my head around. I get that one has worked hard for everything, but at the end of the day, it's still just "stuff".

I'd rather spend my golden years with one house, one car (and maybe one "cool" car), and a loving, caring spouse to do things, like golf, with, than all of this.

To each their own, though.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Tom, what you FAIL to understand is that you can no longer assume ANYTHING about your wife or what she'll do or not do.

You keep contradicting yourself!

One minute, you're claiming she's this different creature with spiked bozo orange hair and 15 tattoos whose acting like a different person. She's eating things she never liked before while CLAIMING she's liked them her whole entire life, she's got different hobbies now, different ideas, she dresses like a middle-aged cliche with her silly poser biker clothes every day, and she has a different persona altogether - and you want to know where the wife that *used *to be your best friend has gone.

But then you turn around and angrily proclaim that she couldn't POSSIBLY be cheating on you because you know her better than anyone else and you know with 100% certainty that she's simply incapable of crossing that line. Period. End of subject.

So which is she? A stranger with a completely different outlook and personality, or is she the same woman you've always known and therefore, can be *100% positive* that she wouldn't cheat on you?

Which is she, Tom?

You never thought she'd have orange hair. You never thought she'd have a bike. You never thought she'd be a middle-aged tattoo queen. You never thought she'd start hanging around with bikers. You never thought she'd become completely uninterested in your retirement life in Florida. You never thought she'd completely stop having sex with you. You never thought she'd wake up every day and dress like a 'biker chick.' You never thought she'd become so utterly disengaged from you and your marriage.

My point is that she's done a whole *lot* of things you never thought she'd do, hasn't she?

Time to pull your head out of the sand.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> Again I asked for help, suggestions and experiences. Not assumptions without facts.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom


 @golfer6760:

Help: It's here and I'm sure other more experienced posters can help you.

Suggestions: Same answer.

Experiences: Same answer. In fact, go do some reading for a few days. Read other betrayal stories here that started out with the BS (betrayed spouse) assuming that there was nothing underhanded going on. Watch nearly every one of those stories change to shed light on the actual truth: cheating or infidelity in some way, shape, or form. SOMETIMES a spouse just changes, checks out, wants out and there is no other person. This is always a possibility. The majority of the outcomes here, IMO, show that there is either another person or person(s) that are getting the lion's share of the emotional investment, and most often, the intimate investment as well.

Assumptions without facts: It was suggested that you hire a PI to gather facts. If that's not of interest to you, then there are no facts that will become available to you, to then make a more informed decision. The suggestion is that you do what is necessary to gather the facts you seem to want. We can't do it for you, so all we have at our disposal are assumptions (and occasionally personal experience).


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*She's stilllgot it

You never thought she'd have orange hair. You never thought she'd have a bike. You never thought she'd be a middle-aged tattoo queen. You never thought she'd start hanging around with bikers. You never thought she'd become completely uninterested in your retirement life in Florida. You never thought she'd completely stop having sex with you. You never thought she'd wake up every day and dress like a 'biker chick.' You never thought she'd become so utterly disengaged from you and your marriage.

My point is that she's done a whole lot of things you never thought she'd do.
*
You are 100% correct. I never in my wildest dreams thought she would do any of the above 25 years ago. But, for the life of me I cannot digests the fact that she is intimate with anybody else. Maybe I don't want to or I can't. I'll be honest and have no idea how I would react if I found out she was.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

So it is cheaper to keep her then. So be it. Now, let's discuss the real issue here. Are you two really living like a married couple physically or are you just roomies?

You two have not had sex in years. Whose idea was that? I'm assuming there is no intimacy either. No snuggles, hugs, kisses and flirting and teasing going on either right? How do you two get your needs met that only a significant other can give? 

She may not need any of that because she is too drugged to miss anything, but that is NOT your case. What do you want and need from your significant other?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> *She's stilllgot it
> 
> You never thought she'd have orange hair. You never thought she'd have a bike. You never thought she'd be a middle-aged tattoo queen. You never thought she'd start hanging around with bikers. You never thought she'd become completely uninterested in your retirement life in Florida. You never thought she'd completely stop having sex with you. You never thought she'd wake up every day and dress like a 'biker chick.' You never thought she'd become so utterly disengaged from you and your marriage.
> 
> ...


That's why you need to do all the things listed above including the PI - so you know what's really going and so you will discover how you will react and can make informed decision on how to proceed. 

Right now you are basing all your future goals, objectives and wish lists based on a blind assumption she has been faithful to you despite many years of sexless marriage.

Your plans and future wants and goals may be completely different when you find out she has not been sexless.

That is why you owe it to yourself and to your future self to at least put in the due diligence and responsibility to find out. 

Otherwise you are basing your future on a naive and unsubstantiated assumption in the face of a mountain of red flags and warning signs. 

That is irresponsible and reckless.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

golfer6760 said:


> Oldshirt
> 
> *It's not denial. One, I do trust her. Again we've been friends for a lot of years.* Two, she doesn't go anywhere without me when I'm around. To work and from is the only time she drives. Or I'll have her drive one of my cars to a show if I'm displaying two. That's it.


She's had a personality change. She's not the person you've known all those years any more.



golfer6760 said:


> Tracking a person is simple. *Todays new cars with GPS and phone controls provide real time car locations via your phone.* She knows how to use the systems just as well as I do. When I'm away, the house is secure via security & cameras. She's a homebody and in bed every night by 7:30pm. I'd know immediately if any window or door was open or is there was any motion outside. And, so wouldn't she. So, I'm not in denial cause nothing is happening. And if I am that stupid shame on me.


Easily defeated. Take the part in bold. What's to keep her from driving somewhere and getting picked up by someone else? What's to keep her from leaving her cell phone in her desk at work, going out at lunch time with someone else and ending it with a quickie, or even spending her whole lunch hour in a hotel room instead of a restaurant. How are you tracking that? Is she an imbecile? Too stupid to figure out the obvious easy ways to defeat the measures you're counting on?



golfer6760 said:


> The same goes for the house in FL. She knows when I'm coming and going. When the garage doors open or close. The immediate video will tell if a vehicle left or not.


If she gives enough of a **** to bother checking.




golfer6760 said:


> Again I asked for help, suggestions and experiences. Not assumptions without facts.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tom


You are getting help, suggestions and experiences. You're rejecting it all because you're neck deep in denial. Look, none of us know if she's cheating on you or not. What we do know is that you're describing actions that make us all think she very likely is. That's the experience you're rejecting. We're trying to get you to do an actual investigation to find out where you really stand so the right people can give you the right advice for your situation. Frankly, if you're right and she's not cheating, I'll leave this thread because I have no experience that would be helpful. But that's why people keep harping on the same thing over and over, because the experience you're rejecting is informing the suggestions you're rejecting, and that's keeping you from getting the help you're seeking.

If you're adamant that you don't really want to know if she's cheating, and make no mistake, that's what you've been saying, then you're going to have to take her out of her comfort zone. She has no good reason to change anything. You're allowing her to get away with denying you a sex life, you're allowing her to get away with living a lifestyle you don't like, you're allowing her to continue with her medical games. I'm sure you're outraged that I think that because you've been trying to convince her but the fact is when your words fail you don't escalate, and she knows that ignoring your words is all it takes. So if you're unwilling to verify fidelity and she's ignoring what you say to her about it then you're going to have to take some kind of action to shift her reality from her current place of comfort to a place where _she_ decides that _she_ needs to do something to fix it.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Bibi1031

So it is cheaper to keep her then. So be it. Now, let's discuss the real issue here. Are you two really living like a married couple physically or are you just roomies?

You two have not had sex in years. Whose idea was that? I'm assuming there is no intimacy either. No snuggles, hugs, kisses and flirting and teasing going on either right? How do you two get your needs met that only a significant other can give? 

She may not need any of that because she is too drugged to miss anything, but that is NOT your case. What do you want and need from your significant other? *

You hit the nail on the head. IMO right now yes it's cheaper to keep her and live my partially happy sexless life. Also sex is available out there if necessary. So far I choose not to pursue it. That's what we are is roomies or brother and sister. No there is no teasing at all. I've been going along with the constant sexual problems from the RA for the past 5-7 years. I get my need by none. It's not the end of the world if you ask me.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

The Forum

I have either of two decisions to make after hearing all your points of view. 

One, Start to investigate and see what's going on. Hire an investigator, get aggressive and get to the bottom of this for my own self satisfaction. If the investigation proves me wrong then divorce & move on with my life as envisioned after the tornado subsides.

Two, Let the status quo be. Ignore what's going on & live my free flowing life as it is without a significant other. Put up with the 5 months a year I'm up north or then times I fly back (it's not for 7 months straight). No divorce, No loss of selfish material things and keep on going as is from 65 to ????? In the meantime straighten out all finances so as little as possible will be hers if something happens to me. In which case, most has been done. 

As we all know she will never change. So, the ball is in my court.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

Nucking Futs

I'll never disagree with you. If the correct way to go per the percentage of the forums experience & advice so far, I have to find a way to get out of the denial stage. Mind says yes and my heart says no.

Tough place to be in.

Tom


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

golfer6760 said:


> The Forum
> 
> I have either of two decisions to make after hearing all your points of view.
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. It is possible to recover from infidelity, but the infidelity has to be over. If it's ongoing you cannot recover from it. The advice you'll receive if you do find evidence of infidelity will be directed towards breaking the affair, and yes filing for divorce will be part of that advice but there is a difference between filing for divorce and completing a divorce. Divorce is a process, not an event, and it can be stopped at any time until the judge signs the order. And even then you can remarry.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Nucking Futs said:


> golfer6760 said:
> 
> 
> > The Forum
> ...


Why would he want to remarry her? If there is infidelity, and exposure stops it, he's still left with a woman he has nothing in common with, who refuses to have an intimate sex life with him... plus who was unfaithful.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Why would he want to remarry her? If there is infidelity, and exposure stops it, he's still left with a woman he has nothing in common with, who refuses to have an intimate sex life with him... plus who was unfaithful.


You got me, I don't understand it either, but some people are so afraid of being without their spouse that they won't risk losing their marriage to put a stop to infidelity.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Livvie*

*Why would he want to remarry her? If there is infidelity, and exposure stops it, he's still left with a woman he has nothing in common with, who refuses to have an intimate sex life with him... plus who was unfaithful. *

Nobody that I know of yet has been unfaithful. Innocent until proven guilty. I never was so that leaves her to be determined. I'll start the process of looking in to it as soon as I get to FL around the beginning of November. I'll have a few weeks to get the ball rolling then I will head back up north for Thanksgiving. 

Plus, why in the name of God would I ever want to marry again. OMG the thought sends chills down my spine.

*NuckinFuts*

To be honest if I am proven wrong I'm just not pumped up for the divorce bull****. You know she won't go down without a fight. She knows I am her bread & butter. Even though FL law an uncontested divorce only takes two weeks it's getting her to agree. Her mind is messed up now, imagine the psychotic frenzy & reactions. Bet you $10 she tries to put a bullet hole in me. She's not normal since using drugs.


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## a_mister (Aug 23, 2017)

I find this thread interesting. We have a few female friends with "RA", and I'm not sure what to make of the surprising prevalence of the diagnosis among people with addictive personalities. 

The LTR is a gentle soul and thinks it's scary that so many women around here have auto-immune disorders. You'd think there's something in the water, right? These are the same friends who go out for a drink and show up drunk because they had "a drink" after work, too, which the husband will quietly admit in a private moment was an entire bottle of wine. They also know every local doctor on a first name basis.

A cynic would conclude that they're addicted to pain-killers and that the RA diagnosis is sometimes misused as a catch-all of the mysterious and unexplained ailments of a pill-seeker. A cynic would suspect the same thing of someone who repeatedly demands joint replacements for mysterious and undiagnosable pains, seeing multiple doctors until she gets what she wants.

Sometimes legitimate medical treatment is an addict's first exposure to their own addictions and it's all downhill from there. That she's surrounding herself with new friends who are likely immersed in the drug culture raises a lot of red flags about what the future is going to be like. That she's eager to see you leave the area so she can be alone with her friends is worse. I'm very sorry you're going through this, but please remember to be careful. Just because you could trust your friend for many years does that mean you can trust the addict version of her. Protecting the addiction often comes before everything else for an addict, including family.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

golfer6760 said:


> *Livvie*
> 
> *Why would he want to remarry her? If there is infidelity, and exposure stops it, he's still left with a woman he has nothing in common with, who refuses to have an intimate sex life with him... plus who was unfaithful. *
> 
> ...


Florida is not a friendly state for men getting divorced. You should check with a lawyer in each state and choose the friendliest venue. 

And if she shoots at you, try to generate a miss. :grin2: And on the bright side, that should make it possible to have her evaluated by a pshrink.:smthumbup:


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, I am glad you will try to find out what she is up to. She may not be cheating, but you never know and it is best to rule that out. If you can tolerate being just roomies, then you need to not feel guilty for you two doing your own thing. 

If you ever miss getting your needs met, then you need to have a talk with your roomie and re-evsluate your options. Maybe once she realizes you are not dead inside and need love and intimacy, she may decide to give your marriage an honest try or allow you to open up the marriage. You have options too. You two need to communicate. If she doesn't listen, that will no longer be your problem. You were faithful and honest until you couldn't anymore.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Nucking Futs

Florida is not a friendly state for men getting divorced. You should check with a lawyer in each state and choose the friendliest venue. 

And if she shoots at you, try to generate a miss. 
*
I am a resident of FL. That's where a divorce must be generated from. I've already weighed my options with an attorney.

Great advice as a possible target :-o

*Bibi1031

If you ever miss getting your needs met, then you need to have a talk with your roomie and re-evsluate your options. Maybe once she realizes you are not dead inside and need love and intimacy, she may decide to give your marriage an honest try or allow you to open up the marriage. You have options too. You two need to communicate. If she doesn't listen, that will no longer be your problem. You were faithful and honest until you couldn't anymore. 
*
This situation didn't just happen yesterday. I've been in this situation for 5-7 years. We've had numerous talks that usually turn in to a fight in the end. She is tough and holds her ground that sex will not be a part of our relationship. End of subject for her and rather than waste my time & energy I don't ask. She claims her body hurts an 8 on a scale of 1-10 continuously. That's with all the medications she takes. I have made appointments with Marriage Councilors and been told to F off don't waste your or my time with Bull Poop.
Eventually I will probably be unfaithful. I have to get over the guilty feeling first. IMO I don't deserve being treated this way. Your opinion to that???


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You didn't ask me, but for 5 to 7 years already you have chosen to stay in the marriage knowing there won't be sexual intimacy and that she doesn't give a rat's ass. You have plenty of money to survive a divorce and maintain a good lifestyle, no minor children together to consider, so really, this has been your choice to live like this. You tell us, since you chose this, do you *deserve* it?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

golfer6760 said:


> *Nucking Futs
> 
> Florida is not a friendly state for men getting divorced. You should check with a lawyer in each state and choose the friendliest venue.
> 
> ...


She is not a resident of Florida so you can file in either jurisdiction.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*A_Mister

I find this thread interesting. We have a few female friends with "RA", and I'm not sure what to make of the surprising prevalence of the diagnosis among people with addictive personalities. 

The LTR is a gentle soul and thinks it's scary that so many women around here have auto-immune disorders. You'd think there's something in the water, right? These are the same friends who go out for a drink and show up drunk because they had "a drink" after work, too, which the husband will quietly admit in a private moment was an entire bottle of wine. They also know every local doctor on a first name basis.
*
After 5-7 years living with an RA patient I have become very well versed on the prognosis. In my case it's my opinion my wife has no disease except for a few aches & pains like all of us. To date nothing conclusive from MRI's, Blood Work & X-rays have proven she has RA. My wife in the beginning claimed her hip hurt. She was about 48 at the time. Was physically fit and a real Tom Boy at heart. It would never bother her to dive in to second base playing softball. If it came to a fist fight between us I'd run if possible.
Then she went to see I'd say 10 doctors. She would get mad because they would all say there's nothing wrong with you, plus you're too young. She was persistent and kept on chugging along until she found an RA specialist who she lives for now. They started off slow and many of the medications she took and is taken set her back for a loop. I had no problem at the time confronting the doctor and saying Hey, if you can find anything conclusive then how can you say it's RA. He would reply with a patient does not have to have concrete evidence to have a disease. So, what can I say?? Nothing.
Then she was adamant the Hip had to be replace due to Arthritis which was (her prognosis) attacking every joint in her body. Again, I bet we went to another 10 Orthopedic Surgeons before she found the one that agreed the hip had to be replaced. I was never comfortable with the replacement and I was told to mind my business it's my (her) body.

I fought the issue with my wife many times before the Surgery. I contacted the Insurance company and sat with them regarding the IMO surgery that was not needed. The insurance company just about said buzz off and mind your business. I then went to the State AG Office to complain. I was told Hip Surgery can be "Voluntary Surgery" which is 100% legal. I was like WTF this is wrong. Well, to make a long story short two hips and two knee's later by the same doctor and same Insurance company later and here we are today.

Here's a list of drugs taken for RA that is as legal as it goes in alphabetical order

Alendronate Sodium 70mg 1x per week
Amitriptyline 25mg 1x per day
Adult Aspirin 1x per day
Folic Acid 1mg 3 each day
Leucovorin 25mg 1 x per week
Levoxyl .05mcg 1 x day
Lyrica 200mg 3 x per day
Methotrexate 25ml injection 1 x per week
Savella Tabs 100mg 2x per day
Simvastatin 20mg 1 x per day
Slow Mag 1 tab per day
Tizanadine 1/2 =2mg 1 x per day
Tramadol 50mg 4 x per day
Tylenol 500mg 4 times per day
Stool Softener 5mg 3 times a day
Xeljanz 5mg 2x per day

Now she just started having infusions of Rituxan 100ml twice two weeks apart every six months.

She goes to the doctor (I'm there) and when the doctor asks what's your pain today she will say 8 every time. The doctor never says a word.

They have looked at everything believe me. Last summer they thought some of her pain problems was MS. So, we went through a Brain MRI, Full Spine MRI and a Spinal Tap. The tests have been going through two rocket scientist doctors who haven't determined anything yet.

I can tell you this much. I feel doctors rather than deal with the unknown diseases like RA, MS & Lupis they blow the patients off with drugs and they feel better. Plus, doctors get a kick back from Pharmaceuticals for prescribing certain drugs. IMO Doctors and Politicians arte on the same level.

I can go on forever. 

Tom


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Nucking Futs

She is not a resident of Florida so you can file in either jurisdiction. 

*Yes & No. Per the attorney if I file I must file in FL as a resident. If she files she would file in the state of her residency. I cannot file in her state.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> *Nucking Futs
> 
> Florida is not a friendly state for men getting divorced. You should check with a lawyer in each state and choose the friendliest venue.
> 
> ...


If my wife told me our sex life was over today and that nothing would change her mind, I would be on the phone finding a divorce lawyer before the offices close at 5. 

I would be sad and mourn the loss of many years of good intimacy but I wouldn't be mad, bitter, resentful or do anything to screw her out of what she was rightfully entitled to. I would just exit stage-left with what I was legally entitled to and start my new life of doing what I want.

So the way I see it, you are choosing this life each and every day that you stay in it.

Not only is she not a 'wife' but she is even a crappy roommate. And she is a crappy roommate that is living off your payroll and she isn't even nice to you. 

You are being played for a fool and a chump.

She may have been all that and a bag of gumdrops 25 years ago and she may have been a good wife, stepmother and lover a quarter of a century ago.

But she is a liability and thorn in your side now..... But haven't got that memo yet. Your nostalgia for the past has clouded your vision of reality now. 

This is by your choice and your own hand. You can choose to keep your head in the sand and live in the past. 

The reality of today will still be here if you choose to wake up and open your eyes some time.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

@golfer6760, 

Like you, retired in '11, 65 now, golfer and snowbird too. I have had the opportunity to meet quite a few people, who's OH don't care to leave their lives back home to join them for whatever reason. No cheating involved. So it's not so odd a situation as others here would have you think and I think you know that. Some of them grudging accept it rather than divorce and some of them actually embrace it as a vital part relationship. Again, like you, it's not my cup of tea. I don't even like the idea of separate beds. I don't judge your wife's behaviors even though they are eccentric for most (I enjoy a trip to Bike Week in season), but she clearly doesn't see the same retirement lifestyle as you. Plenty of couples end up that way, so that's not unusual either. Your vision isn't her's. Since she obviously isn't going to change, you're absolutely right about the few choices you have. I understand your commitment to your long-term partner and the choice not to kick her to the curb. At this point, it's more than likely I'd do the same... offer support and live separate lives. Though no one could fault you if you left either. 

So my thoughts may be different from the others, but I can't offer you a fix. She is who she is, whether that's a mental or physical health problem (make no mistake it's one or both), it's not going to change it unless she recognizes there is one. Whats the likelihood of that? 

Find an IC, it might help you come to terms.

Best


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

...... So while perhaps no person "deserves" to be mistreated, the ones who allow it to happen and do nothing have no one to blame but themselves.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> Eventually I will probably be unfaithful. I have to get over the guilty feeling first. IMO I don't deserve being treated this way. Your opinion to that???


If you're unfaithful, you've given her a lot of leverage if she decides to divorce. She'll tell everyone how she never strayed but you fooled around on her while she's deathly ill.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> *Nucking Futs
> 
> Florida is not a friendly state for men getting divorced. You should check with a lawyer in each state and choose the friendliest venue.
> 
> ...


On a scale of 1-10 how much does she care about you?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> I've been in this situation for 5-7 years. We've had numerous talks that usually turn in to a fight in the end. She is tough and holds her ground that sex will not be a part of our relationship. End of subject for her and rather than waste my time & energy I don't ask. She claims her body hurts an 8 on a scale of 1-10 continuously.


Didn't you say a few posts back that she goes to the gym a couple hours a day and works out all the time?

So she is in so much debilitating pain she cannot have a marital love life with her husband but she is able to hit the gym every day?

Anyone else see the contradiction here?


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Didn't you say a few posts back that she goes to the gym a couple hours a day and works out all the time?
> 
> So she is in so much debilitating pain she cannot have a marital love life with her husband but she is able to hit the gym every day?
> 
> Anyone else see the contradiction here?


For the things we care about we find the time and energy to do them, no matter the cost.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Oldshirt

Didn't you say a few posts back that she goes to the gym a couple hours a day and works out all the time?

So she is in so much debilitating pain she cannot have a marital love life with her husband but she is able to hit the gym every day?

Anyone else see the contradiction here? 
*
Yes about 3 times a week for 1 to 1-/2hrs, One of the better things for RA is not laying on the couch. Moving and exercising is prescribed. If there's anyone on this forum with RA please chime in. I'd love to hear your experiences. Please don't twist going to the Gym as another opportunity to give someone a ****** in the parking lot. 

How much does she care about me. In my estimation a lot. She still does everything for me as any good wife would. The problem is the personality change, meds & lack of sex. Other than that she's still a good **** that has hair like Bozo as one poster said, Tattoo's which I do not like and a Motorcycle that i'm not a fan of two wheels. I'd hate to see her go out in the grill of a Peterbilt. Her friends are not my style and I don't think they've shot anybody. Any activity she takes on with the Motorcycle is for the Veterans in our country. That don't make anybody bad. 

Except how did the sudden change come about.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Malaise said:


> For the things we care about we find the time and energy to do them, no matter the cost.


Truth.

This applies to Tom as well. 

If he wanted to end this situation he would. But he feels the cost is too high for him currently.

He did state that he would eventually be open to hooking up with someone else. Makes me wonder if he were to meet someone else that tripped his trigger and who rode him like a big white, how long would it take him to toss her out, even if it meant selling a house and a car?


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Anchorwatch

Like you, retired in '11, 65 now, golfer and snowbird too. I have had the opportunity to meet quite a few people, who's OH don't care to leave their lives back home to join them for whatever reason. No cheating involved. So it's not so odd a situation as others here would have you think and I think you know that. Some of them grudging accept it rather than divorce and some of them actually embrace it as a vital part relationship. Again, like you, it's not my cup of tea. I don't even like the idea of separate beds. I don't judge your wife's behaviors even though they are eccentric for most (I enjoy a trip to Bike Week in season), but she clearly doesn't see the same retirement lifestyle as you. Plenty of couples end up that way, so that's not unusual either. Your vision isn't her's. Since she obviously isn't going to change, you're absolutely right about the few choices you have. I understand your commitment to your long-term partner and the choice not to kick her to the curb. At this point, it's more than likely I'd do the same... offer support and live separate lives. Though no one could fault you if you left either.* 

You are correct Anchorwatch. Many people I know at the club & community I live in the male lives in FL all winter, plays golf, has a few brews, lunch dinner with friends and his time is his before and after while their spouse lives up north working at her career or electing not to go cause they claim they hate FL. At times the female spouse who's usually younger than the male is not ready to retire & settle down to sitting home alone or hanging with the disproportionate grey hairs all day while the husband plays golf 3-4 times a week. Once in a while the wife flies down or the husband flies up north to keep the relationship going. While he's in FL he's either enjoying a quiet life and probably watching the young cleaning girl tidy up the house every two weeks.  

I've been going to FL alone for enough years to learn the whole routine. For some it's good and some it's not. To each their own IMO. 

At one time our vision was the same. She would retire when I did and we'd have a ball. All dreams changed when the RA and the Drugs came in to play for me. Or she got hit by lightning in the yard one day. I don't know.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> Except how did the sudden change come about.


The onset of sudden behavioral changes can be caused by physical disorders. Not to mention the cocktail of drugs she's on. 

Again, find yourself a psychiatrist and support group. You're dealing with something way out of your normal range of knowledge. You need a guide to make a proper decision. 

When she asks why you need that, just tell her it's for you. 

Best


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

golfer6760 said:


> *Oldshirt
> 
> Didn't you say a few posts back that she goes to the gym a couple hours a day and works out all the time?
> 
> ...


But do you see the contradiction?

She is in to much pain and debilitation to be loved and pleasured and have orgasms with her husband, but she can pump iron and get on a treadmill for an hour and a half. 

Pleasure and Orgasms vs treadmills. That doesn't seem like it should be a mutually exclusive choice.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

My mom has RA. She is in her late 70s. She is still a great partner to my dad, they do tons of things together, and they have a sex life.

If your wife goes to the gym for multiple hours a week, she could definitely be having sex with you if she wanted to.

If she wanted to.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

But let's stop going round and round for a moment.

Does she have any other trusted friends or close relatives that are also concerned about her behaviors and her personality changes?

Could you and a group of friends and relatives that she loves and trust hold an intervention where all of you describe her changes and their concerns and convince her to seek a thorough assessment in a reputable rehab or chemical dependency center?


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Oldshirt

He did state that he would eventually be open to hooking up with someone else. Makes me wonder if he were to meet someone else that tripped his trigger and who rode him like a big white, how long would it take him to toss her out, even if it meant selling a house and a car? 
*


Nope. Not while married I'm not that stupid. Plus, right now I have no use for the species. The last thing I need is another PIA.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

* I have made appointments with Marriage Councilors and been told to F off don't waste your or my time with Bull Poop.

*
*She is tough and holds her ground that sex will not be a part of our relationship. End of subject for her *

How much does she care about me. In my estimation a lot. She still does everything for me as any good wife would.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Oldshirt

But let's stop going round and round for a moment*. YES you're wearing me out  

*Does she have any other trusted friends or close relatives that are also concerned about her behaviors and her personality changes?

Could you and a group of friends and relatives that she loves and trust hold an intervention where all of you describe her changes and their concerns and convince her to seek a thorough assessment in a reputable rehab or chemical dependency center?* 

Every event we go to that's all I hear is "You look great with short hair. Oh I love those Tattoo's. Look at those piercings around your whole ear. It looks great. Or Oh!!! That color Bozo Red looks awesome with your complexion. 

Nobody knows in her circle any of the Meds she takes. I'm not going to confide in them. That would be talking to the wrong people. My club friends are that, club friends. My close friends say Go for the ride and enjoy yourself in FL You deserve it. Get yourself a young cleaning girl to come in once a week. You will be happy and the house will be cleaned. My friends say to "Acknowledge & Ignore" is the best way to get along.

Her Brothers could give two craps. Her sisters say nothing and each got Tattoo's cause my wife talked them in to it. A couple weeks ago a lady that was really disproportional weight to height says " I love those Tattoo's" I said If you like them so much why don't you get one. Well that was good for World War 3 for a few hours Why I have to be an ass. 

All her friends have Tattoo's. Young and old. The grandkids love them. Grandma is cool. Her sisters kids at family functions can't wait to compare each others Ink. To me it's sickening. I couldn't tell you how long the debate lasted over her getting a nose ring. When I said what are you looking to do get tied off to a hitching post?? That was good for a fat FU. 

Believe me when I say I am the oddball outsider. And NO, no Tats for me.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

golfer6760 said:


> *Oldshirt
> 
> He did state that he would eventually be open to hooking up with someone else. Makes me wonder if he were to meet someone else that tripped his trigger and who rode him like a big white, how long would it take him to toss her out, even if it meant selling a house and a car?
> *
> ...


You do know that some of them are not total PIA'es. Or at least, I have heard such things.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> But let's stop going round and round for a moment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




THIS. For the love of God. 


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

The wife of our oldest friends has RA. She's 64. Over the years she had replacement knees, hips, a wrist, an elbow. I recognize a lot of those drugs on your list too. She gets around but prefers sedentary activities as she's always in pain. We know the physical act of sex was a major issue. About ten years ago they had their problems and it did include his infidelity. They readily admit they handled their situation badly. They are reconciled and do everything together. She's never going to get better. Hope that helps.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

When she said sex is no longer part of things and basically told you to F off, I think I'd be heading toward the door with littleguilt.
It's one thing to say it, but to say it without so much as an "I'm sorry"???? Yeah, no respect.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

What does she do when you are in FL? 

It seems like a really sad waste of your golden years to be married but spend so little time together. Especially if you've got money to burn. The world should be at your fingertips. 

Have you attended marriage counseling with her? I would make the appointment and tell her we are going. 

I know you've said you talked to her many times. Does she know you miss her? That you care about her? That you want to be intimate with her because you love her? 

What is the plan if somewhere down the line one of you ends up sick or disabled? I know she's "got RA" but I'm talking about unable to care for yourself anymore. Unable to live alone or travel alone, or travel at all. Would you be there to care for her, or would she be there to care for you? Would you WANT to be there, couped up in the same house being her caretaker? Could she say the same about you? 

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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your wife sounds pathological to me. She's so insecure about her body at this point that she treats it like a time bomb waiting to go off and kill her. She's got to fix things before their toxicity does her in. At this point, she's like the bionic woman with a medicine cabinet full of pills for the things she couldn't yet talk someone into surgically 'fixing' or replacing.

I think the hair, tattoos, and piercings are her way of 'fixing' the things that she has control of - she doesn't need a surgeon to color her hair orange. In doing these things, she says, 'See? I'm not old!I look like all the other young people out there.'

And in her head all of these things stave off old age, which is a very scary thing for some people. (Of course, menopause really concentrates the mind when it comes to dealing with impending old age, as well.)

It sounds like you love her, but at this point her inner monologue is different enough from yours that the two of you probably aren't compatible.

I understand why you're going with the flow in this situation. What I don't understand is why you drop everything to accompany her for her medical appointments. If you go to present a counterpoint, then OK. If you go to support, it sounds like enabling.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*alte Dame

I understand why you're going with the flow in this situation. What I don't understand is why you drop everything to accompany her for her medical appointments. If you go to present a counterpoint, then OK. If you go to support, it sounds like enabling. 

*I go to get the facts first hand and pursue if necessary.

Thank You


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

golfer6760 said:


> She is tough and holds her ground that sex will not be a part of our relationship. End of subject for her and rather than waste my time & energy I don't ask.


All I can say is you are a really nice guy.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

@golfer6760

A couple of questions.

I don't know if you mentioned your former line of work. If you don't need the benefits, can you get into consulting? That may make up some of the lost money if it comes to divorce. 

Also, in your research, what is the life expectancy of a person who is on that many drugs? I've never known any opiate adicts but crackheads seem to be able to live forever provided they don't OD.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Jus260 said:


> @golfer6760
> 
> A couple of questions.
> 
> ...


She is not taking opiates! I reviewed the list of drugs she is taking, most of them are immuno suppresant/anti-inflammatory drugs. The drugs used to treat RA are sometimes lower dose chemotherapy type drugs. In other words not exactly drugs you'd take for fun. The only drug on the list OP posted that is used for pain is a non-narcotic painkiller (Tramadol) which used to not even be a controlled substance since it has a very low potential for abuse. The drugs she is taking are NOT "fun" and don't produce a "high". She is an upper middle class white woman with obviously good health insurance. If she wanted "fun" drugs to stay stoned 24/7 she'd have zero problems finding a Dr. or several to Rx them for her.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

golfer6760 said:


> *N
> 
> 
> This situation didn't just happen yesterday. I've been in this situation for 5-7 years. We've had numerous talks that usually turn in to a fight in the end. She is tough and holds her ground that sex will not be a part of our relationship. End of subject for her and rather than waste my time & energy I don't ask. She claims her body hurts an 8 on a scale of 1-10 continuously. That's with all the medications she takes. I have made appointments with Marriage Councilors and been told to F off don't waste your or my time with Bull Poop.
> Eventually I will probably be unfaithful. I have to get over the guilty feeling first. IMO I don't deserve being treated this way. Your opinion to that???*


*

My opinion is that you have tried for years now to no avail. Have you talked to her about maybe opening the marriage to get your needs met? You say she really cares about you. If she does, she will accept that another can give you what she obviously can't or maybe won't. Honesty is the best policy in the majority of cases. Let her know that you are at your wits end and you need sex and intimacy plain and simple. You are not in constant pain, you are not of meds. You live, breath and feel. Sex is a big part of your needs and that you are in a sexually starved marriage. You don't want to stray as you love her and your life together, but something is gotta give yesterday.

If she doesn't listen, that is not on you. If she goes bonkers, then she really doesn't have your best interest at heart nor does she care for you and your needs as much as you think and she says. Walk away from her and live your life with whomever you want. Just make sure it doesn't leak to her. What she doesn't know won't hurt your marriage to her. People will go ballistic with my opinion, but enough is enough. You have gone sexless for too long. I would not do that period. The majority shouldn't either. You only have one life to live. Well, live it plain and simple!*


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*If she doesn't listen, that is not on you. If she goes bonkers, then she really doesn't have your best interest at heart nor does she care for you and your needs as much as you think and she says. Walk away from her and live your life with whomever you want. Just make sure it doesn't leak to her. What she doesn't know won't hurt your marriage to her. People will go ballistic with my opinion, but enough is enough. You have gone sexless for too long. I would not do that period. The majority shouldn't either. You only have one life to live. Well, live it plain and simple! 
*

I've tried oh have I tried. Today I attempted to talk about our relationship and she turned me off like a faucet. She walked away and say's FU with an extended time U. Yesterday she was talking to a girlfriend from work so I mentioned, "Hey invite her down to FL for a long weekend. He friend on the speaker phone said you bet I will be there. So, I went walked away saying to myself "That's cool". 

Today she was on the phone again with her friend and I felt bad so I mentioned "Hey I wasn't being rude but your husband is also invited" You should have heard the both of them. Efff him, why would I want to enjoy myself in FL with him. My wife was laughing out loud saying can you imagine hanging with that Effer all day hahahahahaha.

When my wife got off the phone she said to me they will not go anywhere together. They do not get along and both go their own ways. 

I felt like at least I wasn't alone in this world.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

golfer6760 said:


> *If she doesn't listen, that is not on you. If she goes bonkers, then she really doesn't have your best interest at heart nor does she care for you and your needs as much as you think and she says. Walk away from her and live your life with whomever you want. Just make sure it doesn't leak to her. What she doesn't know won't hurt your marriage to her. People will go ballistic with my opinion, but enough is enough. You have gone sexless for too long. I would not do that period. The majority shouldn't either. You only have one life to live. Well, live it plain and simple!
> *
> 
> I've tried oh have I tried. Today I attempted to talk about our relationship and she turned me off like a faucet. She walked away and say's FU with an extended time U. Yesterday she was talking to a girlfriend from work so I mentioned, "Hey invite her down to FL for a long weekend. He friend on the speaker phone said you bet I will be there. So, I went walked away saying to myself "That's cool".
> ...


If I were in the relationship you describe, and my wife told me to go F myself when I asked her to talk, I'd at the very least find an entertaining woman in Florida that didn't mind if I was married. To hell with being completely miserable while she says F Youuuuuuuuuuu...... I think you should divorce her, but if your attorney says don't, DON'T!!!!

However, the way she sounds, why would she even care if you had someone to have sex with and have fun with. I personally think that if she has any sex drive whatsoever left (and she may not), then she's getting her rocks of elsewhere.
You may be exactly right in that she just has zero interest in sex anymore. 

I think the best advice is this: Find a way to make your life BETTER. Nobody's life is perfect. If you talked to your wife and asked her if you could have a woman on the side that gave you sex and companionship since she won't really provide either, what do you think she'd say? IF she cares for you at all, don't you think she'd want you to be happy and have someone to spend YOUR time with and have sex with since you still want to? I don't think you are required to put an end to things that bring you happiness simply because she no longer wants to participate in your life. She shouldn't even want that. 

You either make changes, or you're going to stay miserable. I'm not telling you to cheat on your wife. I'm telling you I think she doesn't care anymore. Keep her in the money and maintain her crazy ass lifestyle and I suspect she would be fine with whatever the heck you do. Hell, ask her.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Golfer,

The other day a friend sent me this greek myth Tiresias...and asked me the same question that Zeus and Hera asked.

Tiresias was a priest of Zeus, and as a young man he encountered two snakes mating and hit them with a stick. He was then transformed into a woman. As a woman, Tiresias became a priestess of Hera, married and had children, including Manto. After seven years as a woman, Tiresias again found mating snakes; depending on the myth, either she made sure to leave the snakes alone this time, or, according to Hyginus, trampled on them and became a man once more.[68]
As a result of his experiences, Zeus and Hera asked him to settle the question of which sex, male or female, experienced more pleasure during intercourse. Zeus claimed it was women; Hera claimed it was men. When Tiresias sided with Zeus, Hera struck him blind.[41]
Since Zeus could not undo what she had done, he gave him the gift of prophecy. An alternative and less commonly told story has it that Tiresias was blinded by Athena after he stumbled onto her bathing naked. His mother, Chariclo, begged her to undo her curse, but Athena could not; she gave him prophecy instead.

After reading the myth I replied:

I guess it takes a blind man to see the future and a sighted man to see the past and ponder what could be.* But neither men to understand that the greatest pleasures from intercourse comes the person who has the most to.lose when the other leaves them.

Golfer that is you, for you have the most to lose...and I don't mean money I mean the feeling to be desired and wanted, she can walk away with little disregard while your heart is bleeding that puts you in weaken position in this relationship....I know this is not what you want, but in the end that maybe what you have.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

How sad to read about these types of men & women that as old as they are, they never grew a spine to be able to stand up for themselves. All they do is complain and play the martyr while life is passing them by.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

golfer6760 said:


> Today she was on the phone again with her friend and I felt bad so I mentioned "Hey I wasn't being rude but your husband is also invited" You should have heard the both of them. Efff him, why would I want to enjoy myself in FL with him. My wife was laughing out loud saying can you imagine hanging with that Effer all day hahahahahaha.
> 
> When my wife got off the phone she said to me they will not go anywhere together. They do not get along and both go their own ways.
> 
> I felt like at least I wasn't alone in this world.


What a surprise that your W's friend is like that. /sarc

Wonder who was the influence on who?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Have you broached the subject of an open marriage?


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Evinrude58

If I were in the relationship you describe, and my wife told me to go F myself when I asked her to talk, I'd at the very least find an entertaining woman in Florida that didn't mind if I was married. To hell with being completely miserable while she says F Youuuuuuuuuuu...... I think you should divorce her, but if your attorney says don't, DON'T!!!!

However, the way she sounds, why would she even care if you had someone to have sex with and have fun with. I personally think that if she has any sex drive whatsoever left (and she may not), then she's getting her rocks of elsewhere.
You may be exactly right in that she just has zero interest in sex anymore. 

I think the best advice is this: Find a way to make your life BETTER. Nobody's life is perfect. If you talked to your wife and asked her if you could have a woman on the side that gave you sex and companionship since she won't really provide either, what do you think she'd say? IF she cares for you at all, don't you think she'd want you to be happy and have someone to spend YOUR time with and have sex with since you still want to? I don't think you are required to put an end to things that bring you happiness simply because she no longer wants to participate in your life. She shouldn't even want that. 

You either make changes, or you're going to stay miserable. I'm not telling you to cheat on your wife. I'm telling you I think she doesn't care anymore. Keep her in the money and maintain her crazy ass lifestyle and I suspect she would be fine with whatever the heck you do. Hell, ask her.
*

I do not have a death wish. So, asking permission to have sex with another wouldn't go over very well. I'd probably die with a knife in my back. Thanks for the advice though.
I spoke with my Attorney today and we went over the pro's & cons of divorce. The Pro's outweighed the cons of not getting divorced. My attorney said today. You are the luckiest man around. You have a beautiful home in FL and the same up north. You can go to FL anytime you like for as long as you like. He said you have the world by the balls and every married guy is jealous of you. He recommended I go to FL in a couple of weeks & fly back and forth for the Holidays. He said even put Valentines day on the list. Play Mr. nice guy and be sweet. He said while you are in FL do what you want or have to do. It's your retirement, enjoy it. 
I did not agree or disagree with him. I took his words as his advice as a friend.

*Malaise

What a surprise that your W's friend is like that. /sarc

Wonder who was the influence on who? 
*

All her close friends are either single never married or married & divorced with no children. The one friend from work they are like two peas in a pod. Except her work friend can drink like a fish. Good thing my wife doesn't drink so at least she can drive and maybe save a life.

*Elizabeth001

Have you broached the subject of an open marriage?

*I would be a loser from the word go. Why wind her up. That would be a battle I would never win or get satisfaction from unless I was looking to piss her off.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So in the end, the final outcome here, is that you have decided: it's cheaper to keep her.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

golfer6760 said:


> *Evinrude58
> 
> If I were in the relationship you describe, and my wife told me to go F myself when I asked her to talk, I'd at the very least find an entertaining woman in Florida that didn't mind if I was married. To hell with being completely miserable while she says F Youuuuuuuuuuu...... I think you should divorce her, but if your attorney says don't, DON'T!!!!
> 
> ...


You're not giving your attorney the full story. He's advising you based on the assumption you're getting laid like tile in Florida. His advice might change if he knew the truth.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Dude ...if you want to wallow in your own misery, why did you post here?

Is it the moon phase with ignorant posters tonight or is it just me?

GAWD!



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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Make sure you record what a witch she is when you ask for time and attention from her. Continue asking her that you want your partner back so you have proof for the kids and grand kids as to the real state of your marriage and who has been terribly neglectful in this relationship. 

Don't step out of the marriage without proof that you had good reason to do so. You are not asking your wife for sex, you are asking for the life partner she should have been to you in the past 5- 7 years. With proof, no one will side with her. On e thing is to be ill, and another is to neglect her partner in the worst ways. You want a partner to enjoy life with. You didn't sign up for a roomate ever!

Once you have enough proof to disclose to your fsmily if need be, then you can live your life in Florida like the lawyer suggested. Forget her. She seems to think you mean nothing more than a husband for appearances sake and nothing else. Well, no more Mr. Doormat. Enjoy your life with a partner that wants to enjoy it with you. Nobody needs to know what you do with your time and attentions when you were constantly left alone to fend for yourself!


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

golfer, I am older than you and my situation isn't as bad as yours, but your W is way out of line in several departments.

My guess is she is having an emotional affair with someone or is in a mental alignment with her male and female friends and you are the "stupid old fart that doesn't know how to have fun. By the way I am also in that "stupid old fart" group according to my W based on her statement that she "doesn't have to worry about me having any female friends because no one would want me."

After being on relationship forums for 10 years, one piece of wisdom I have learned is, when you keep your mouth shut to avoid an argument, you will lose EVERY time and the other person will walk all over you without regret. A second part is the more the other person walks all over you, the less respect they have for you and your dumb opinions. In a way you are teaching your W what she can get away with and the more she gets away with, the less she sees you as a worthwhile person. You become weak to her and that drives her further away.

Lots of people stayed in a marriage because of the money and not wanting to give up what they worked for, for a long time. I read some of those people's stories 5 years after the divorce and everyone I know of said they wished they would have pulled the plug sooner and the biggest mistake they made was hanging on for too long. If they could have a "do-over" they would have done a legal separation or divorce much sooner.

As an outsider I was thinking about offering her 55% of everything now with the clause she would never ask for anything in the future. In effect I would pay her to leave ASAP. The way it is now, what you have now isn't worth the emotional cost and most likely will effect your mental and physical health in the future.

Divorce laws vary by state so check with different state lawyers to determine which state standards hurt you the least.

BTW, my W's income was her "play money" too. I have a lot of resentment because her income was hers and my income was "OURS." That is BS.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You allow crap to be talked about you. She has zero respect for you. One thing I agree with that another poster wrote, I agree that her hair and tats are her way of asserting control. Seems to be working. 

Is your life, and your decision seems to be made. All the best.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Satya said:


> *You allow crap to be talked about you. She has zero respect for you. *One thing I agree with that another poster wrote, I agree that her hair and tats are her way of asserting control. Seems to be working.
> 
> Is your life, and your decision seems to be made. All the best.


When you allow crap to be talked about you, you lose self respect. She sees this and her respect for you goes lower. Hence the F U with the extended U.

You know it won't get better.


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## golfer6760 (Oct 8, 2017)

*Livvie

So in the end, the final outcome here, is that you have decided: it's cheaper to keep her*.

No, I've made no decisions yet.

*Nucking Futs

You're not giving your attorney the full story. He's advising you based on the assumption you're getting laid like tile in Florida. His advice might change if he knew the truth. *

My attorneys/friend gave me suggestions pertaining to my situation. He knows the truth and knows my wife. 

*Elizabeth001

Dude ...if you want to wallow in your own misery, why did you post here?
*

Liz, I'm not wallowing. I still have a great life except for a partner & sex. I'm here to listen to the many different scenarios, get experienced advice and possibly talk to others in my situation. 

*Handy

My guess is she is having an emotional affair with someone or is in a mental alignment with her male and female friends and you are the "stupid old fart that doesn't know how to have fun. By the way I am also in that "stupid old fart" group according to my W based on her statement that she "doesn't have to worry about me having any female friends because no one would want me."

After being on relationship forums for 10 years, one piece of wisdom I have learned is, when you keep your mouth shut to avoid an argument, you will lose EVERY time and the other person will walk all over you without regret. A second part is the more the other person walks all over you, the less respect they have for you and your dumb opinions. In a way you are teaching your W what she can get away with and the more she gets away with, the less she sees you as a worthwhile person. You become weak to her and that drives her further away.

Lots of people stayed in a marriage because of the money and not wanting to give up what they worked for, for a long time. I read some of those people's stories 5 years after the divorce and everyone I know of said they wished they would have pulled the plug sooner and the biggest mistake they made was hanging on for too long. If they could have a "do-over" they would have done a legal separation or divorce much sooner.

As an outsider I was thinking about offering her 55% of everything now with the clause she would never ask for anything in the future. In effect I would pay her to leave ASAP. The way it is now, what you have now isn't worth the emotional cost and most likely will effect your mental and physical health in the future.

Divorce laws vary by state so check with different state lawyers to determine which state standards hurt you the least.

BTW, my W's income was her "play money" too. I have a lot of resentment because her income was hers and my income was "OURS." That is BS. 
*

Handy, I still say she's not having a physical relationship. I've thought about the cyber relationship and that could very well be the fact. I know none of her girlfriends are Married, Single with a Boyfriend or one is married and hates her husband. I asked about one long time friend who lives in FL and up North was divorced 25 years ago. They are the same age. She travels in the corporate world and is worth millions. I asked a long time ago why she doesn't get a mate. My wife replied, For what??? She needs a guy like a hole in the head. When she wants to get laid she just goes to the bar in the hotel and in seconds some fool is buying her drinks and the next thing you know she gets laid and wakes up with nobody there. My wife say's it's the perfect world. 

I choose to be the old fart as she say's. I do not allow the phrase "Old Man". If we do something together I put on the deaf ears. She'll complain the whole time. The restaurant is hot the restaurant is cold there's too many people here or I don't like the menu or the food is expensive. You know where I'm coming from. If we go to an out of town car event I let her pick the hotel. I'd be verbally punished if I picked a hotel and the towels weren't perfect. I learned years ago to sit back and say go ahead make the arrangements. My focus is on the car show. I could care less what hotel we stayed in. Why punish myself, just relinquish the responsibility.

Yes I've read some of the 5 years after stories also. I agree with you, When I was divorced in 1982 I was young and thought the world ended. But, yes after 10 years it was the best thing I ever did. Today I contemplate divorce or not. I can get divorced easily. But, I haven't gotten myself to giving up 50% of my earnings & material items that by law are half hers with out even contributing 10%. That's where I stand right now. I'm 65 and have what? 15 good years left?? I do have a great life except for the partner/sexual portion right now. There's got to be a way around it without losing anything. I can't see giving up all those assets for 10 years worth of good oral sex. You know where I'm coming from.

This is the way I look at it right now. If I get divorced today we will split the joint homes in FL and up north. We own them outright probably worth 1.2 mil. The rest is small cash/funds. We've each had our separate stock portfolio's and that will stay that way. We have no problem with that. Never has she ever put a dime in to the FL home. I just cannot fathom selling & giving half of it away. I feel like I'm being had by a gold digger. I'm just not ready or mad enough yet.

*Satya

You allow crap to be talked about you. She has zero respect for you. One thing I agree with that another poster wrote, I agree that her hair and tats are her way of asserting control. Seems to be working. 

Is your life, and your decision seems to be made.*

I agree  Control is one of her family traits 

TTYL


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