# Need Advice



## heartsick_and_fearful (Jul 29, 2016)

My wife and I have been married for 18 years and have known each other for 28 years. There are a number of issues in our marriage currently that are troubling to me and I'm having a hard time in dealing with things. I truly believe we need to get into counseling which I am researching at the moment. 

The advice (or opinion) I need is in regards to our roles in the marriage. When my wife and I first married we both worked and I went back to school so I could have a career where I could support the family. My wife had always stressed she wanted to stay at home with kids if and when we had children. A few years into our marriage and that situation occurred. I wanted things to be clear to her on how I stood with her staying at home so I told her I would love for her to stay at home but the stipulation was she was responsible for the household chores (cooking, cleaning, washing ...). Well, there was no push back when we had this discussion but fast forward 11 years and now my wife seems to think that I should take 5 minutes to clean a commode or such. Am I just being a royal a$$ in expecting her to clean the bathroom on a regular basis while I am at work? As a side note, I work full time but work from home the majority of the time. Also, I do take care of the yard work and any other outdoor chores which need to be taken care of. 

Also, I have helped with things in the past but now it has come to my attention that she thinks I do this solely to score brownie points to have sex. While I do enjoy sex and our marriage is sorely lacking I actually did those things to help out. I now feel like never helping again.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

You don't say how old your children are now... are they pre-teen?


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## heartsick_and_fearful (Jul 29, 2016)

My children are 12 and 8 years old.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I work a full time job AND I have to do all the domestic chores at home, as is the case for the clear majority of most women even in today's supposedly more equal world. And for women with kids, they get to do all that AND the majority of the child-rearing, as well.

I'd love to know what it must be like to feel so entitled that I don't have to lift a damned finger every single night when I got home from work. Alas, I'll never know.

Oh - and when you leave the office or the plant at 5pm? For you, your work is done for the day. Hers *isn't*. She's just gearing up for her second job, the night shift. And on the weekends when you're off, she's still on - caring for the kids, picking up your dirty clothes off the floor, vacuuming the constant crap you all drag into the house, preparing 3 meals a day *every* day for you all, and the list just goes on and on and on.

If all you have to do occasionally is scrub a toilet when you get home, then you'll forgive me if I have a real hard time trying to choke up a tear for you.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

And how many of the chores do they do?

Please, put your pride aside (feeling like never helping again is stemming from this) and have more conversation toward the reasons things are changing from your agreement. A lot of things change in 11 years and managing children was her focus I'm sure, there is a tonne of time lost in raising children and frankly, while your job has essentially grown in different ways with a probable variety of new encounters and options, her's is still the same-ole/same-ole hum-drum of toilets, cooking, cleaning... no variety there.

Not defending her, just perspective.

Now is the time to increase your children's contribution to the nucleus... you and your wife would benefit their growth by leading them in a schedule that places home chores they are capable of into their grasp and from there they will learn what it means to be part of a team... valuable lessons in life that will carry with them into adulthood. Show them that these are all for the common good of the house and to do them with a good attitude and ethic... but you must show that good attitude first.

Build a schedule (place you in it as well as they will follow your actions more than just your words), share the mundane, give pointers to better the jobs they are tasked with, (explanation, demonstration, and practical application), and live by the truth in your words.

Your wife will see this too... I'll bet she changes her perspective of the bartering she thinks she sees.


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## heartsick_and_fearful (Jul 29, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt
You might need to brush up on reading comprehension. I stated in my post that she is a stay at home mom by choice. She doesn't work all day outside the home and then come home to have to clean. I wouldn't put her in that position and as a matter of fact when she did work we split the house hold chores. 

Emerging Buddhist
Thank you for the insight. She has mentioned that her day is boring and I have asked her if she wants to go back to work but that doesn't seem to appeal to her. In this schedule, should I include into it the things I do now. Such as mowing the yards, trimming the bushes, cleaning the pool ...


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Anything within their capability of safely doing... don't forget they cannot do the level of work you can with the heavier things like a full lawn or a full hedge... that is a great place to team (each to their capable percentage that will increase as they become older, stronger, and more capable). Please be patient, try not look for perfection and accept it may not be enthusiastic but compliment them on their effort and lead them with conversation when it isn't. Occasionally, and after a particularly tough task, think about how you can give them a small bonus... perhaps next time (1 time) take on more of their part or maybe something simple like an ice cream with a walk in the park or a movie out, but be sure you take them together and not isolate one over another. If one has a poor attitude, discipline separately, and try to reward them together... remember you are building esprit de corps.

Everyone can pitch in on the pool... with mine, if they wanted to swim, they all did their part and they learned to team by themselves to get the job done more quickly.

My wife was a SAHM until our youngest was driving, then she re-entered the workforce slowly until she found where she wanted to be working, and still that is only part time but she is happy and that helps us be happy.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I would like to add to be humble and empathetic in your discussions with your wife, and do your best to follow through with your words by your actions... compassionate words and recognition for her struggles dealing with routine, strong resolve, stronger love. We all need a hand up every now and then, be the spouse you promised to be.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I have a short answer to your question, which was: are you a royal ass for expecting your wife, who is a stay at home mom to two children who are in school full time, to clean the bathroom on a regular basis. The answer is no.

I was a SAHM for 13 years. Cleaning the bathroom was part of the gig. My husband worked full time.


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## Married27years (Jun 16, 2016)

Seriously? You think you two need counseling because she wants you to clean the toilet? Skip the counseling, spend 5 minutes cleaning the toilet and be happy that your "problem" is so minor.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I work from home, my wife doesn't work and I clean the toilet.

And... so bloody what? :scratchhead:


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Kids are at school, she has nothing to do with herself during the day since she is apparently bored. I don't think there it should be an option; she needs to go back to work.

I wanted to be a SAHM too. When both kids started school, I started PT work while they were at school. We need something outside of ourselves, such as job satisfaction, to remain in a positive mental state. Being bored as an adult is a BAD THING. It should never happen. There should be so much to do that she couldn't imagine having the time to feel bored. She should VALUE her time to herself, but she cannot because she has way too much of it.

It sounds like neither of you have any real long term goals. Why aren't you both striving towards something? How is it that only one of you needs to get up and go to work everyday? Don't you have any ambition as a couple?

Edited to add: Oh yeah, as for the toilet, YES you should clean the toilet. WTH is wrong with people. It's like, "I have someone to clean so I'm going to act like I'm too high and mighty to lift a finger". Get off your high horse. You go to work, so what, so should she.

Note that I have absolutely no problem with people being stay home parents after the kids start school as long as they are still doing stuff that is of value to the people around them and society in general. I know a SAHM with older kids who is the coordinator at the school tuckshop. Others who volunteer a lot of their spare time to useful causes. I've met people who don't work who are so busy they're never at home.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Okay, man to man: quit your b*tching and clean the damn toilet. She cooks, you wash the dishes. Mowing the lawn, cleaning the pool, and trimming the bushes are not everyday chores but rather periodical. Why are you keeping score with your wife? Take out the trash, wipe the counter, do the grocery shopping not because you want sex but because you love her. You're making mountains out of molehills.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

She needs to be toilet scrubbing, the kids are at school all day there is no reason she can't get it done.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Have you considered that its not about toilet scrubbing?

Have you considered that the agreement you both made 11 years ago...was made by 2 different people? Meaning, over this time...you have both changed. Maybe she was a young woman starting a family with the love of her life and she would have agreed to anything if it would please you? I could be wrong...who knows.

Most importantly though, i think the toilet is the symptom, not even cleaning it as requested would heal what needs attention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

If your kids are 12 and 8, WHY is she still staying home?? While I think you refusing to scrub a toilet is for sure a d1ck move...I mean you DO live there too... she has no children at home during the day. There is no reason that she shouldnt have everything done. Seriously, what does she DO all day?


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Your kids should keep their rooms clean, and if they have a bathroom that they share together; they should clean that too. But make sure to protect them adequately from some of the strong cleaning chemicals that are required to disinfect and remove soap scum.<<<< Reasons like that are why I really think your wife should be doing this stuff, but anyways.

Your kids should help out setting the table at dinner (mind the 8-year-old handling things like steak knives, and so forth), or helping prep the food, or washing the dishes afterwards.


They can support you doing the yardwork.

But if your wife stays home all day, cleaning and cooking is her job. Your kids job is to do well at school, stay out of trouble, and do some chores to help out their family. Kids, if at all possible, should have extra-curricular activities; this is their childhood after all, when their gifts and talents should be discovered and developed.


Don't treat your kids like live in servants, unless you want to create a boatload of resentment in them. If they do end up doing most of the chores in the house to free up your wife's time confused, then you must give them an allowance if they complete the work well. Otherwise, you are teaching them that their labor and contributions are not worth anything. It will make it much harder for them to negotiate for raises at work when they are employed as adults.

Interesting, what will your wife be doing when the 8-year-old is pushing the vacuum cleaner around, and the 12-year-old is in the kitchen, chopping up the onions for the evening meal? That's hilarious to me, in a bad way. It's their summer vacation; they should be having fun after they make their bed and rinse out their cereal bowls in the morning. Not making sure your wife doesn't have to do housework????


And, no, you are not unreasonable for expecting your wife to clean the "commode", since you are earning all the money. Possible exception: you have explosive diarrhea and the toilet is disgusting---yeah, clean that up yourself. But regular bathroom cleanings? No, not your job at this point.



> Also, I have helped with things in the past but now it has come to my attention that she thinks I do this solely to score brownie points to have sex. While I do enjoy sex and our marriage is sorely lacking



Uh-oh, here we go again


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You work from home. Clean the toilet after your regular work hours. No one would expect a person who works off premises to come home to clean a toilet. I'm prone to say that since you are the only one working and do all the outside chores then the housework is your wife's job. She has plenty of time to clean the house before the kids get home.

I suggest you strongly encourage her to get a job outside of the house. A part time job would be ideal until the kids graduate.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

In most instances yard work doesn't require as much time as housework. However, you work full time AND do all of the yard work. It seems reasonable that she should take care of the house. Cleaning and cooking would be part of that.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

If you do more work than her and she's on the couch watching soaps or on her social network sites, then there's definitely a problem. However, if she's working hard and asking you to spend five minutes to clean the toilet and you refuse, then you're the problem. Since you work from home, you save about two hours a day in commute and getting ready for work. You'd just have to walk a few paces to your home office or a couch and you're "clocked in." Your schedule is very flexible, but I get the sense that cleaning toilet is too icky or somehow beneath you. Both you and your wife must be on the same page, in that if either one sees something that needs taken care of, that person shouldn't wait for the other partner to do it. 

There's a story about former head football coach Jim Tressel of Ohio State. He was walking along the hall of the building, sees a piece of trash on the floor, and proceeds to pick it up. He didn't wait for someone else to come along to do it. He probably works just as hard if not harder than the general custodian but he was not above picking up trash when he sees it. Both you and your wife must have that mentality of not waiting for the other one to do it.

This issue is nothing compared to the real marital problems others on this site are experiencing,fwiw.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Having been a "Stay at Home".. I've always felt it was *a "privilege"*... in this vein.. I felt I needed to carry my weight.. feeling my husband has it harder -getting up 6am, driving to work.. facing icy roads, difficult bosses, stress on the job....so I wanted to get everything done when he's working for our family bringing in the bacon to keep us all afloat...I've always felt he carried the heavier weight.. so we could buy our dream house, take family vacations...dream a little..

In this vein.. I feel your wife is spoiled and being being ridiculous... does she DO everything else besides this ONE thing.. cleaning a toilet -is there some aversion to this one task I wonder??

I've also worked on the side.. sometimes as many hours as him in a week...I work about 30 + now...even still.. I've never expected him to touch my stuff.. we have more kids too.. 

It's very difficult for me to sympathize with stay at homes -that expect their husbands to help when they get home...(they always sound lazy to me)...if she is bored...then she needs to be doing more so there is no time to be bored... 

Though I must admit.. it goes a long way.. the attitude of our husbands too...my husband is the type to never complain and would have helped me.. 

I always felt I needed him for other things, those manly tasks... like fixing our cars, lawn mowers, helping with home projects, wood cutting, saws, plows, on the roof.... things I couldn't do.. there is enough of that to keep a man occupied when he gets home -unless of course he pays others to do those things.. (we never did)...

Both husband & wife need to contribute as much as possible ...to ease the burden for the other... it's a "teamwork" thing.... it's always a shame when you get 2 people who only see what the other is Not doing.. but can't see their own hand of "slack"....


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Both husband & wife need to contribute as much as possible ...to ease the burden for the other... it's a "teamwork" thing.... it's always a shame when you get 2 people who only see what the other is Not doing.. but can't see their own hand of "slack"....


This is what a healthy marriage is based on.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

CynthiaDe said:


> This is what a healthy marriage is based on.


 I believe so... but how does one put it into words that can "inspire" others to go a little above & beyond and somehow be happy about it ?? 

I think the problem is >> many "take advantage"... we see this a lot with co -workers..there are those who pull their weight & then some / model helpful employees, we ENJOY working with those types...and those who are "slackers".. taking advantage, sleeping on the job, trying to slide under the radar...

People are no different at home...it often causes contentions to rise... 

I may have a few complaints about my husband.. and he has of me over the years...but one thing we never fought over was one of us NOT doing our part -in the home, or out working... I have always validated him.. making it known HOW MUCH I appreciate his attitude, his work ethic, his handy man skills...I praise the man!....I've never been a wife whose had to Nag to get things done.. I am sure this "motivates" him as well.. 

And he's never had to push or complain for me to do my part.. I'd feel awful if I couldn't live up to my own expectations....he's always treated me as though my contribution is just as important.. even though I feel He works harder, longer.. and carries a heavier load...

But that's the beauty of it.. we are showing appreciation for each other... Life is hard enough without adding to it... we each have an important role to play. 

I'll always feel it a "privilege" being able to stay home & raise our children, if our husband's earn enough... Many do not want this lifestyle today...they even belittle it.. feeling all women should have a career (but that's another thread topic of course)...

When a woman is working outside the home.. a couple will need to decide who is responsible for what.. to avoid these type of issues rearing their ugly heads.... Life can be stressful if we have too much on our plates... 

Part of the problem in this particular scenario may be that this husband works from home (& she feels she does too)...so why can't he clean the toilet... I just don't know..


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Well in my admittedly Neanderthal male brain cleaning the toilet is one of those Man Jobs. Do it, if it makes her happy. 8 and 12 are great ages, Spend some time with those kids as much as possible. Homework help, family dinner hugs and bedtime daily. Weekly drives to scouting or sports. Dad outings 3 or 4 times a year. 

If you must make it feel fair (I don't believe in fair) trade her for a flower garden.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This is why you, and only you, should clean the toilet.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

OP, I'm curious about your screen name. Surely you're not heartsick and fearful over who's going to clean the toilet, so what's really going on?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I work a full time job AND I have to do all the domestic chores at home, as is the case for the clear majority of most women even in today's supposedly more equal world. And for women with kids, they get to do all that AND the majority of the child-rearing, as well.
> 
> I'd love to know what it must be like to feel so entitled that I don't have to lift a damned finger every single night when I got home from work. Alas, I'll never know.
> 
> ...




I have a full time job. And I do all the domestic jobs. Cook, clean, bills, laundry, lawn, cars, dog, etc. And I am primary caregiver to a very illness wife. I am NEVER off the clock. I don't complain. 

The wife here is lazy. She can clean the toilet. She is now changing the rules to fit herself. But that is not the problem. 

OP, we have seen many of these stories and it is NEVER about the toilet or cooking or cleaning. You have a more fundamental and serious marriage issue. 

It is about her role in the marriage and her purpose in life. Yours too. Because often once the kids finish school the marriage ends in divorce or affair.


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## Girl820 (Aug 4, 2016)

Running a household is not so easy Imo. Especially when you have kids. And I think everyone in the house should do what they can without complaining or feeling like they deserve an award for getting chores done. Please don't get me wrong I'm not downplaying your problem. My point is, please don't feel bad about this, because it's your house and it's getting cleaner- irrespective of who's doing the cleaning!
I'm sure it hurts when your spouse says you are helping out to get something in return. Maybe you should have an honest talk with her about how that is not the case and she hurt you when she said that. 
I am a stay at home mom by choice but my kids are much younger than yours. I do all the cooking, dishes, laundry, everyday cleaning, shopping, taking care of the kids school stuff, bathing them, teaching them, driving them around,watching them 24*7 so my husband is free to work without having to worry about much. He takes care of all the outdoor stuff, but sometimes helps with cleaning. About toilets, sometimes I do it and sometimes he does it. It has never been an issue, but that could be because we have some bigger problems in our marriage.

I worked the same job as my husband before my youngest was two. It was a very stressful full time job with a tiring commute. We went to and came back from work together on most days. But as soon as we got home, H's job was to play with the kids while I made and set up dinner for everyone, did the dishes, bathed the kids etc. on weekends, H did his own laundry while I did mine and the kids'. All other minor indoor chores were upon me too. There is often no equal distribution of chores in most households. It is unfair but it sadly happens a lot.

Your kids are old enough to pitch in too! If they are unwilling to help, there are lots of parenting resources which can help you figure out how to get them to join you in keeping the house clean.


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