# Wife's affair continues during divorce



## Melrose8888

Hi all, lurker since cracks appeared in my marriage 2 months ago and felt it time to share my story, as the posts of other helped me emensely in early days. This story could equally go into the divorce forum but it's the affair that dominates my thoughts.

Background is married for nearly 8 years, realtionship for 17 years with a small break early on, 2 boys aged 7 and 4, based in the UK. Usual issues in marriage, lack of sex, emotional interest, poor work life balance for both, very few opportunities for time alone and lack of sleep.

A few times I've voiced my frustration about the issues, occasionally threatening to leave and building emotional walls. A couple of months ago ex took one of these comments and turned it into a request for space. At this point I respected that wish and stayed with friends when I could. I gave it a 1% chance of an EA or PA at that time.

Started couples counseling but could tell she was only there to appear supportive but was cold and unengaged.

On returning home I noticed red flags, spending ages getting ready, new clothes, new underwear, shaving, new hair, long hours at work etc. A bit of light Facebook snooping revealed her telling the mums from school that I was making her unhappy and she didn't love me any more but nothing more.

Early December she planned a weekend to see family, I had my suspicions so I checked her weekend bag and found sexy underwear and directions to a hotel. As I had the kids to look after, i managed to stop myself following her but on her return, asked her a few normal questions about the weekend to see if she would own up. Nothing but I could tell she was lying.

So next morning I took her mobile, felt so guilty but opening revealed 200+ texts between her and her boss (older man, director of a large organisation who had just given her a new role and payrise...) Lots of flirting, sending descriptions of underwear and saying what a great weekend they had and how they will work through the complexities to be together. Further digging revealed he is also married with teenage kids. Took photos of all the texts.

Clearly devastated, I asked who she was with this weekend and if she was having an affair. She denied it, saying it was a friend with similar issues meeting to talk at dinner. I pushed (without revealing I had seen texts) and she eventually said they had kissed but 'there was no overlap, as it was after she asked for space'!). Further snooping showed an EA as early as June...

I asked her to stop seeing him and to work on our marriage but she refused and said she planned to move out in the new year but that he isn't the reason she was leaving. I told her I was divorcing her and filed unreasonable behaviour before Xmas, looking to agree 50/50 shared custody of boys and financial settlement through midiation. I have risen to be the better man and have bitten my tongue so many times to ensure the best for my boys. I still believe this is a likely outcome but I don't believe a word she says anymore, so am guarded.

However, in lead up to Xmas and new year, we attempted to keep civil for the boys but she continues to text, call, him, hide phone from me, meeting him for lunch and was clearly destracted from being a mother (not to mention many serious lacks of judgment such as meeting him for drink during work time, then drink driving (came home stinking of booze) with my eldest son!). So I told her I knew everything, all the texts and that is her boss and threatened to call her work to tell them. She pleaded with me, still saying she's done nothing wrong. This is the only emotion I've seen out of her in last month. I've not told her work or his wife, yet, but am tempted once financial settlement is sealed by solicitor?

Shes agreed to move out end Jan but spent new year's with him and it's eating me up inside. I can't bear the thought of them together and what they've done to our family. I know that if he hadn't told her what she wanted to hear, we would have worked through our issues and that feels so unfair.

Do I give up, let her move out, carry on with divorce or give it one final try?

Apols for length of first post but it's been great just to get this down in black and white.


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## Spicy

First of all, welcome to the Forum, but I'm sorry for you and your boys as to why you are here.

In reading your description, I would say, "Yes, you should give up." She is giving no indication of wanting another try. She is blatantly carrying on an affair with her boss, and rubbing your nose in it. She's done with you. She's not coming back.

You absolutely need to tell her bosses wife and HR at their company ASAP. The other betrayed spouse deserves this knowledge immediately. 

Take care of yourself and your boys right now. Eat healthy, get sleep, exercise. It is time to move on. You deserve way better than this woman.


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## Grapes

sorry you are here! That is a rough story but know you are not alone! I feel for you! Its painful and staying strong for your kids is #1 priority.

I would tell the OM's wife ASAP. Like yesterday! Only you know the financial situation. It is VERY likely they will get fired if you go to HR. If that impact YOU negativly then I would hold off. If you dont think it will then expose it ASAP. BUT tell the other mans wife asap!. 

From the read it sounds like R is out of the question and frankly even if you want to or not the path is the same. Youve already filed so thats really good on you! Time to start thinking of yourself. Hit the gym, eat right, put kids first and learn about your laws.

It sounds like she is deep in the fog and all you can do is detach, 180 and get your life together for the kids because she wont.


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## Lila

@Melrose8888, so sorry to hear that you are in this situation. It's a sad one all of the way round. 

You asked whether or not you should try to work it out with your wife or continue with the divorce and IMO, you should continue with the divorce. 



Melrose8888 said:


> Background is married for nearly 8 years, realtionship for 17 years with a small break early on, 2 boys aged 7 and 4, based in the UK. *Usual issues in marriage, lack of sex, emotional interest, poor work life balance for both, very few opportunities for time alone and lack of sleep.*





Melrose8888 said:


> *A few times I've voiced my frustration about the issues, occasionally threatening to leave and building emotional walls. *A couple of months ago ex took one of these comments and turned it into a request for space. At this point I respected that wish and stayed with friends when I could.


Her affair was the straw the camels back but it looks like you and she have been having problems for years, so much so that you have threatened divorce on more than one occasion. If you've considered divorcing her in the past then why would you want to continue in such a dysfunctional relationship? You're only kicking the can down the road. 

See this as your opportunity to move on. Free yourself to meet someone who is a better match than your current wife. 2017 can be the year of the phoenix for you.


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## lostmyreligion

Get tested for STDs. 

As you tell her that she also needs to get tested, you can let her know you're having the the boys paternity tested as well.

Outside of that don't ever threaten or warn. In fact read up on the 180 and minimize interaction as much as possible. 

And just go straight to doing what has to be done. At this point it's telling the OM's wife and HR.


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## 2ntnuf

> Started couples counseling but could tell she was only there to appear supportive but was cold and unengaged.


This is the only red flag you need. She was gone before counseling.



> Do I give up, let her move out, carry on with divorce or give it one final try?


Yes, give that divorce one more try. This time, don't let your feelings for the woman you thought she was get in the way. She is nothing to you now. She is the mother of your child. That's all. Any woman could have been the mother of your child. Treat her as such for you son's sake.

Forget trying to bring her around. She can come back around after you've divorced, if she has the notion. I doubt she really wants you. She probably just got dumped by the guy or he is having second thoughts about how long he wants to be with her. That's her mistake and not yours. 

Don't feel bad for her. She left your marriage long ago. She won't return as the same woman you married. 

Get the divorce and your child. Give her nothing you don't have to give by law. Fight to keep all you can. She left the marriage when she left her feelings for you drift away.


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## farsidejunky

You leverage the identity of the POSOM in order to secure the best possible divorce settlement.

That is how you seek justice in this situation.


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## EunuchMonk

You are supporting the affair by not telling OM's wife and HR at her workplace. She is getting unfair favour because of the sexual favours she is giving her superior. Expose, expose, expose. Your old lady will fall off the cloud she is on when she realises OM is just with her for sex (a walking, talking bathroom to relieve himself). Damn, Melrose, you have all the cards right now. Use them, brother.


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## Rubix Cubed

Spicy said:


> First of all, welcome to the Forum, but I'm sorry for you and your boys as to why you are here.
> 
> In reading your description, I would say, "Yes, you should give up." She is giving no indication of wanting another try. She is blatantly carrying on an affair with her boss, and rubbing your nose in it. She's done with you. She's not coming back.
> 
> You absolutely need to tell her bosses wife and HR at their company ASAP. The other betrayed spouse deserves this knowledge immediately.
> 
> Take care of yourself and your boys right now. Eat healthy, get sleep, exercise. It is time to move on. You deserve way better than this woman.


^ This^ All of it.
I would also add don't give her until the end of January to move out, if she plans to keep blatantly rubbing her affair with her boss in your face.
Give her the boot NOW!


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## bandit.45

Expose and divorce. It is your only recourse. Your wayward wife has checked out...finito.


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## Danny4133

Welcome Melrose,

You're in the best place here, you've got the ball rolling with the D, cudos for that, next ensure you see it through she leaves the property. Change locks when she does so, close off all joint bank accounts, change all passwords on your email, bank accounts pin numbers, wipe her from all your social media accounts.

Expose to your family and friends they will hopefully support you or her, the point being you'll know who stands up in the storm. Don't be fooled that R is an option here, she wants to test drive the POSOM and let her go ahead and do so with your blessing.

Expose to his family as they need to know, make the call quick sharp with all the proof you have.

Read up on the 180 and live it as your life in interation with your ex from now on...she's well ahead of you in the emotion game and checked out a good while ago. Time to catch up sir, take a firm line. Kids are still quite young yet to know whats going on, some here advocate going scortched earth and telling them everything about why mummys abandoning them, me personally would take the professional 3rd party apporach.

Remember your kids need you now more than ever, their POS mother is about to walk out on them. So to be their rock you have to look after yourself, sleep properly, eat and excercise. Reach out to your family for support here, try and keep a routine as best as possible.

You will get through this, it will pass, and one day in the future the page of the book will turn and you will see she actually set you free.


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## Marc878

Ask yourself this? What is helping hide their affair getting you?

You don't have to worry about pushing her away she's already gone.

With the other man in your marriage you've got zero chance.


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## sokillme

First off you also posted on SI didn't you?

I know it's painful but is sounds like she is done with the marriage. You need to accept the reality. If you can't then start asking yourself why you are willing to settle for begging a woman who is willing to abandon her family. You can do better in your life, and whether you know it or not watching this is not healthy for your kids. Next blow up the guys life, he deserves it, and so does your "wife".

Finally almost all (I would say all) of us who have gone through this and dumped the people who did this evil to us ended up much better for it. There is a reason people like your wife can do this. Most cheaters are people who are less evolved in the trait of empathy. Think about it could you do this to her? Even now could you? That is because you are not that type of person. For the most part these people are missing something in them that makes them a bad choice to have a long term relationship with. It's the same reason that they sleep like babies why braking the person that loved and supported them for years, while destroying their own children lives no less. Right now you see her with the cloak of love, so it is hard to see these facts. Never the less they are the facts. People like your wife are emotional vampires, they suck all the emotional love out of a relationship and then they move on to the next one when things settle down to normal, like all marriages do.

Believe me with time you will no longer care at all about your wife except for the fact that she is the mother of your children. But that will be about how her behavior affects their lives. I have only one feeling for the person who did evil to me, pity. To me she is just an undeveloped person. My life would have been hell trying to somehow teach her to be a descent person, to understand how her actions caused me pain. It was too late for her she never learn this growing, maybe she is not capable of it, who knows. THANKFULLY I found out and moved on. 

There are hundreds of thousands of women out there who are looking for men like you. Once you heal you will be in demand. You can have a great life with a person who has honor. You can create a healthy relationship with someone who is capable of it. Just think of it, is your wife capable of being that example now that she is having an affair with a married man? Do you want your kids to learn this and one day follow suit? Do you want your grandchildren to be affected because your son learn to emulate his mother? My father cheated, learning that and seeing how it affected my life and my Mothers put me on the path that allows me to write this stuff on here. I never wanted to be the person who could do this. 

Don't settle for less and you will be if you continue to pursue something with this broken person. Even if she comes back to you. You can still do so much better in your life. Your kids will learn from your example either way, what are you teaching them by continuing to ask her when she shows you she has no respect for you? Is this really the lesson you want them to learn? Do you want to one day see your teenage son begging for his cheating girlfriend to come back to him? Or do you want him to be strong and accept no less than to be treated with respect no matter what? I know what I would want.


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## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, lurker since cracks appeared in my marriage 2 months ago and felt it time to share my story, as the posts of other helped me emensely in early days. This story could equally go into the divorce forum but it's the affair that dominates my thoughts.
> 
> Background is married for nearly 8 years, realtionship for 17 years with a small break early on, 2 boys aged 7 and 4, based in the UK. Usual issues in marriage, lack of sex, emotional interest, poor work life balance for both, very few opportunities for time alone and lack of sleep.
> 
> A few times I've voiced my frustration about the issues, occasionally threatening to leave and building emotional walls. A couple of months ago ex took one of these comments and turned it into a request for space. At this point I respected that wish and stayed with friends when I could. I gave it a 1% chance of an EA or PA at that time.
> 
> Started couples counseling but could tell she was only there to appear supportive but was cold and unengaged.
> 
> On returning home I noticed red flags, spending ages getting ready, new clothes, new underwear, shaving, new hair, long hours at work etc. A bit of light Facebook snooping revealed her telling the mums from school that I was making her unhappy and she didn't love me any more but nothing more.
> 
> Early December she planned a weekend to see family, I had my suspicions so I checked her weekend bag and found sexy underwear and directions to a hotel. As I had the kids to look after, i managed to stop myself following her but on her return, asked her a few normal questions about the weekend to see if she would own up. Nothing but I could tell she was lying.
> 
> So next morning I took her mobile, felt so guilty but opening revealed 200+ texts between her and her boss (older man, director of a large organisation who had just given her a new role and payrise...) Lots of flirting, sending descriptions of underwear and saying what a great weekend they had and how they will work through the complexities to be together. Further digging revealed he is also married with teenage kids. Took photos of all the texts.
> 
> Clearly devastated, I asked who she was with this weekend and if she was having an affair. She denied it, saying it was a friend with similar issues meeting to talk at dinner. I pushed (without revealing I had seen texts) and she eventually said they had kissed but 'there was no overlap, as it was after she asked for space'!). Further snooping showed an EA as early as June...
> 
> I asked her to stop seeing him and to work on our marriage but she refused and said she planned to move out in the new year but that he isn't the reason she was leaving. I told her I was divorcing her and filed unreasonable behaviour before Xmas, looking to agree 50/50 shared custody of boys and financial settlement through midiation. I have risen to be the better man and have bitten my tongue so many times to ensure the best for my boys. I still believe this is a likely outcome but I don't believe a word she says anymore, so am guarded.
> 
> However, in lead up to Xmas and new year, we attempted to keep civil for the boys but she continues to text, call, him, hide phone from me, meeting him for lunch and was clearly destracted from being a mother (not to mention many serious lacks of judgment such as meeting him for drink during work time, then drink driving (came home stinking of booze) with my eldest son!). So I told her I knew everything, all the texts and that is her boss and threatened to call her work to tell them. She pleaded with me, still saying she's done nothing wrong. This is the only emotion I've seen out of her in last month. I've not told her work or his wife, yet, but am tempted once financial settlement is sealed by solicitor?
> 
> Shes agreed to move out end Jan but spent new year's with him and it's eating me up inside. I can't bear the thought of them together and what they've done to our family. I know that if he hadn't told her what she wanted to hear, we would have worked through our issues and that feels so unfair.
> 
> *Do I give up, let her move out, carry on with divorce* or give it one final try?
> 
> Apols for length of first post but it's been great just to get this down in black and white.


Yep!

Also, read up on and implement the 180.


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## MattMatt

@Melrose8888

Ask her to watch these videos 









Then ask her to explain what is the difference between your wife and the cheating women on the Jeremy Kyle Show?


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## weltschmerz

Once she moves out (and make sure she does, aye?) and the financial settlement is done and dusted get a hold of his wife, her family and everybody who cares to listen and tell them that she's having an affair. Be matter of fact about the entire episode. I'm sure his wife would like a few photos of the texts.

Did you say he gave her a raise? Well, did you discuss this with your lawyer? It could possibly be leveraged. Do you have a list of her coworkers? If she's got a linkedin profile, that's where you need to start looking. You need to get it into your head that she is the enemy and that you're on a mission to protect your life, relationships with your kids and your dignity and that means willing to undertake black bag ops which might seem dirty and make you feel guilty. 

Those serious lacks of judgement that you've listed sound ripe for the picking. Document and discuss options. Most solicitors would want a less complicated and protracted case cos it's easy money but you should still discuss your strategies to get a favourable deal.

I'm an idiot when it comes to giving emotional support advice but it sucks and I understand all too well. You're not alone, mate.

Boss-employee relationships usually end up with the female employee getting **** all in addition to all the ****ing that they do get. Crass, but the truth is disagreeable and unpalatable.


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## weltschmerz

And personally, I would shut up about telling the OM's wife, her company etc unless I was completely convinced that she couldn't possibly compromise my life (read kids and money) by turning into a raging half mad cow overnight. Cheaters do that sometimes when they get into their heads that you're not missing them nearly as much as you should.


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## bandit.45

I can't understand a fvcking thing Kyle says. He might as well be speaking Martian.


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## Evinrude58

Don't second guess it. She's a cheater. Divorce her. Never look back


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## weltschmerz

bandit.45 said:


> I can't understand a fvcking thing Kyle says. He might as well be speaking Martian.


You should come up north.


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## Evinrude58

Once the divorce is final, I'd relish telling the HR dept and OM's wife.
Actually, it would hurt to tell the OM's wife, because I know it would hurt, but I'd do it. She deserves to know.


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## Melrose8888

Firstly, thanks to all of you for your responses and kind / straight words of support. Apols if I don't respond to all of you.

Great first response @spicy, in answer to telling her HR department and bosses wife, we have a financial mediation session this week, where I plan to use her guilt (if any) to offer her a settlement figure that allows me to buy out her equity share of the house. Therefore, as @Grapes suggests, I'm a little nervous to rock the boat in this area until it's been sealed by my solicitor?

I feel for the OW of the POSOM but I'm not convinced I should get involved and make this a 4 way? I am kind of hoping when I tell her work, it will get back to her that way instead.

I guess I'm still not clear what exposure will achieve? Perhaps make me feel less like an enabler and hopefully stop her bad judgment caused by sneaking and lying?

I started the 180 when I had my suspicions and reading it again, I've done pretty well, a couple of fails on wanting to know her whereabouts and the occasional snide comment but that's to be expected, I think.

@lila wow! I guess it only hit home now, you are right, I was terribly unhappy. I guess I saw the kids / idea of staying being faithful etc as what we should do in these circumstances and that all will get better in time. Clearly it wasn't / didn't...

Great advice @Danny4133 the kids are, always have been, number 1 importance but it difficult watching her be so 'normal' with them when it's her turn to play mum. I love the setting me free thought, a long way off perhaps but something to hold on to.

@sokillme this is actually my first online post about this. What I realised, and gave me some comfort, it that there are loads of so similar stories. I guess it shows we are only human after all... Huge thanks for the insight into what the mother of my children is really like and you are 100% correct, my boys will be brought up to know this is unacceptable.

@weltschmerz, in UK law, nothing she does can really affect the settlement, very unfair in my opinion but the best I can hope for is to use her fear or guilt to get the best I can for the boys (I get enough cash to buy out house, they stay here 50% of the time and have a stable few years).

Looks a though keeping her out of the house and continuing divorce is current opinion of most.

Thanks for the advice and support all.


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## sokillme

I am sorry for you OP as I know the pain you are feeling, by the way I thought you were this guy. You guys should have a beer. 

Anyway I know that taking control of your life will help you with the pain, part of the suffering is this feeling of loss of control of ones own life. I remember it well. Being assertive gives you back that control. It's like a wave you can ride it back to the shore of healthiness, but you have to start to use it. I know it doesn't feel like it now but you are going to be alright. Use this as strength, remember if you can get through this you can get through anything. Again, if you take control it will allow you to see yourself as a strong person who overcame a terrible injustice. Not as a victim of adultery.


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## arbitrator

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, lurker since cracks appeared in my marriage 2 months ago and felt it time to share my story, as the posts of other helped me emensely in early days. This story could equally go into the divorce forum but it's the affair that dominates my thoughts.
> 
> Background is married for nearly 8 years, realtionship for 17 years with a small break early on, 2 boys aged 7 and 4, based in the UK. Usual issues in marriage, lack of sex, emotional interest, poor work life balance for both, very few opportunities for time alone and lack of sleep.
> 
> A few times I've voiced my frustration about the issues, occasionally threatening to leave and building emotional walls. A couple of months ago ex took one of these comments and turned it into a request for space. At this point I respected that wish and stayed with friends when I could. I gave it a 1% chance of an EA or PA at that time.
> 
> Started couples counseling but could tell she was only there to appear supportive but was cold and unengaged.
> 
> On returning home I noticed red flags, spending ages getting ready, new clothes, new underwear, shaving, new hair, long hours at work etc. A bit of light Facebook snooping revealed her telling the mums from school that I was making her unhappy and she didn't love me any more but nothing more.
> 
> Early December she planned a weekend to see family, I had my suspicions so I checked her weekend bag and found sexy underwear and directions to a hotel. As I had the kids to look after, i managed to stop myself following her but on her return, asked her a few normal questions about the weekend to see if she would own up. Nothing but I could tell she was lying.
> 
> So next morning I took her mobile, felt so guilty but opening revealed 200+ texts between her and her boss (older man, director of a large organisation who had just given her a new role and payrise...) Lots of flirting, sending descriptions of underwear and saying what a great weekend they had and how they will work through the complexities to be together. Further digging revealed he is also married with teenage kids. Took photos of all the texts.
> 
> Clearly devastated, I asked who she was with this weekend and if she was having an affair. She denied it, saying it was a friend with similar issues meeting to talk at dinner. I pushed (without revealing I had seen texts) and she eventually said they had kissed but 'there was no overlap, as it was after she asked for space'!). Further snooping showed an EA as early as June...
> 
> I asked her to stop seeing him and to work on our marriage but she refused and said she planned to move out in the new year but that he isn't the reason she was leaving. I told her I was divorcing her and filed unreasonable behaviour before Xmas, looking to agree 50/50 shared custody of boys and financial settlement through midiation. I have risen to be the better man and have bitten my tongue so many times to ensure the best for my boys. I still believe this is a likely outcome but I don't believe a word she says anymore, so am guarded.
> 
> However, in lead up to Xmas and new year, we attempted to keep civil for the boys but she continues to text, call, him, hide phone from me, meeting him for lunch and was clearly destracted from being a mother (not to mention many serious lacks of judgment such as meeting him for drink during work time, then drink driving (came home stinking of booze) with my eldest son!). So I told her I knew everything, all the texts and that is her boss and threatened to call her work to tell them. She pleaded with me, still saying she's done nothing wrong. This is the only emotion I've seen out of her in last month. I've not told her work or his wife, yet, but am tempted once financial settlement is sealed by solicitor?
> 
> Shes agreed to move out end Jan but spent new year's with him and it's eating me up inside. I can't bear the thought of them together and what they've done to our family. I know that if he hadn't told her what she wanted to hear, we would have worked through our issues and that feels so unfair.
> 
> Do I give up, let her move out, carry on with divorce or give it one final try?
> 
> Apols for length of first post but it's been great just to get this down in black and white.


*Sounds exactly like a reenactment of my first W's affair!

An older corporate VP-boss man with the promise of corporate promotion!

If I had only known everything about marital infidelity that I've learned here at TAM back then that I know now!*


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## TaDor

Wow... UK trash shows are pretty much just as trashy as American ones. The guest look just as typical as Americans as well. Host seems more insulting... I've avoided such crap the decades... Until now.

Watch the 3rd video when they get to the DNA tests for her daughter... The cheating woman didn't know for sure who the father was... Shaking and freaking out. 

To the OP:
She is your enemy. Period.
Use leverage to get what you want.

But expose to his family after final orders. A year I believe. She deserves to know as much as you did... Right?
You didn't blow up her marriage. Her husband and your wife did. 

Be strong. Don't trust your stbxw at all. Buy a VAR. Use it Everytime you interact with your stbxw... Your ride is still just starting. See a therapist as well. Hit the gym. We tell you this because we've ALL been there.


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## MattMatt

weltschmerz said:


> You should come up north.


Or the West Midlands, even!


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## Lostinthought61

One of the reasons you want to expose this affair is to ensure that the soon to ex does not try to rewrite history as is often happens...there are several on here who took the high ground and are now paying the price....the exposing now may sound mean but it must be done so as protection for you in the future....be selective but definitely do it....and her family should know so the can not try to influence the kids in the future....and the ow should know because like you the should at least have options for their future, you take that away with out telling them.


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## Tatsuhiko

Another reason for exposure is the potential to bring your wife back to reality. Often the OM has no intention of leaving his wife, but is rather just using your wife for sex. When his own wife finds out, he's suddenly 100% in reconciliation mode. He might throw your wife under the bus, completely cutting her out, showing her just how "true" their "true love" was. It's at that point that a WW often realizes how much "true love" she still has for her own husband. And it's at that point that you can decide whether there's enough for reconciliation.


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## Chaparral

Exposure is used to break up the affair. Few cheaters can shoulder everyone knowing what they really are.
If you want a chance to save the marriage expose. If you just want to dump her, use the affair as a bargaining chip and expose after she can't renegotiate the deal.
It is that simple.


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## inging

Sorry you are here.
This sort of contempt is not that uncommon but that does not make it any less confusing. You are now the enemy to her happiness and as you detected they just have to work though some complexities so that they can be happy ever after. 
They both genuinely believe this..

*Blow it all apart.*
This is vital as without full exposure to family and friends she will rewrite history and before you know it you will be getting every second weekend visitation to your own children at their new home.
*Tell your children what is happening. *
They are most likely thinking it is something they have done. Stick to the facts and make it age appropriate. 
*Encourage her to move out*
This should be easy. She will move with indecent haste and you should not argue. 
*Continue Divorce*
Move this along as fast as you can. She believes in rainbows and unicorns at the moment and her main focus is to be with her new man. Take advantage of that to get a good deal on the breakup

*Your family*
No longer includes her or your inlaws
*
Money*
Secure finances. Cancel all credit cards and cancel shared phone plans
*Work*
Keep doing it. That is all. 

*Contact with her*
Do not engage about anything other than money issues with the kids. You are going to have to change your life to accommodate the kids. Do it

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE.


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## turnera

Are you trying to get her back or just move on?


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## lostmyreligion

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888
> 
> Ask her to watch these videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc6-U8KkpFs
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XIA_6SeT_k
> 
> Then ask her to explain what is the difference between your wife and the cheating women on the Jeremy Kyle Show?


Thanks for that Matt. I went and watched. Just like you suggested. 

Now I have to scrub my eyeballs. With steel wool.

And while I'm on about it, when did the language tack an 'r' on the end of 'idea'? Even the frickin' Royals say 'idear' wink2.


----------



## MattMatt

lostmyreligion said:


> Thanks for that Matt. I went and watched. Just like you suggested.
> 
> Now I have to scrub my eyeballs. With steel wool.
> 
> And while I'm on about it, when did the language tack an 'r' on the end of 'idea'? Even the frickin' Royals say 'idear' wink2.


I have no idear.


----------



## arbitrator

lostmyreligion said:


> Thanks for that Matt. I went and watched. Just like you suggested.
> 
> Now I have to scrub my eyeballs. With steel wool.
> 
> And while I'm on about it, when did the language tack an 'r' on the end of 'idea'? Even the frickin' Royals say 'idear' wink2.


*Hey Lost! What product did you use to scrub those eyeballs of yours? 

I just saw those videos and I pray that there is a store still open here so that I can go buy something to scrub mine!

And with due apologies to all canines, well, let's just say that cur dogs have far more scruples than that trash posing as refugees from the Jerry Springer Show!*


----------



## Melrose8888

Jeremy Kyle aside (!) lots of useful debate, so thanks.

@sokillme - amazing, read all of that link and it is almost an exact copy of my situation! I've taken steps again today to take control, told her she won't be staying overnight at the house and have stuck to the 180 rules on communication.

I have IC tomorrow and can't wait to start on my individual recovery.

As soon as I have the seal on the financial settlement, I'll be exposing the affair to all parties and will start to tell my side of the story too. There is simply too much to lose to do it right now but I feel for the OBS.

Plus, it might sound familiar to those who have been through this but all the evidence I've seen and heard, it sounds as though they are obsessed with each other and he too will divorce and get together with the 'mother of my kids'. (See, I'm learning!) 

I must also be honest, there is still the tiniest part of me that hopes she will come back pleading for R but I think that is so I can play along for a day and then tell her where to stick it.

The eldest kid is very smart but very emotional, he knows what is coming and when he and his brother are older, he will know why.

Any tips on how to turn the anger, rage and upset that rears it's ugly head into positive thinking / actions? It's still the part I struggle with, even on 'good' days like today.


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose, 

The anger still remains somewhat (7 months) it won't properly dissipate until she's out the house properly, nor will the real healing begin until that time either fella. This is why the 180 us effective, it helps to keep her from pressing those buttons to get a rise from you, and beleive me she will try because she knows how. Even anger will feed her attention. Sucking it in, politely excuse yourself and punch the pillow out of her sight just after.

Excersise will help you flush of the frustration and pent up anger you hold inside. Think every bead of Sweat you push out is the poison she's lanced you with. Lift weights, go power walking, sing loud to your favourite tunes on the way to and from work in your car. 

Don't throw bullets at her, boy it feels good to do it! I know this, but you have to retrain your brain and become as emotional as a rock in front of her. Closed ended responses only when necessary in a monotone way.

Follow this and you're on the track mate, trust me I'm living it atm and it works. Remember this is for YOU and YOUR healing. No more emotional abuse for Mr Melrose.


----------



## honcho

Melrose8888 said:


> Jeremy Kyle aside (!) lots of useful debate, so thanks.
> 
> @sokillme - amazing, read all of that link and it is almost an exact copy of my situation! I've taken steps again today to take control, told her she won't be staying overnight at the house and have stuck to the 180 rules on communication.
> 
> I have IC tomorrow and can't wait to start on my individual recovery.
> 
> As soon as I have the seal on the financial settlement, I'll be exposing the affair to all parties and will start to tell my side of the story too. There is simply too much to lose to do it right now but I feel for the OBS.
> 
> Plus, it might sound familiar to those who have been through this but all the evidence I've seen and heard, it sounds as though they are obsessed with each other and he too will divorce and get together with the 'mother of my kids'. (See, I'm learning!)
> 
> I must also be honest, there is still the tiniest part of me that hopes she will come back pleading for R but I think that is so I can play along for a day and then tell her where to stick it.
> 
> The eldest kid is very smart but very emotional, he knows what is coming and when he and his brother are older, he will know why.
> 
> Any tips on how to turn the anger, rage and upset that rears it's ugly head into positive thinking / actions? It's still the part I struggle with, even on 'good' days like today.


Don't pin too much hope on your silence to obtain a good financial deal. Wayward are in lala land during an affairs and if you can get a fast quick deal done you may get a favorable financial deal but all to often the "real world" starts to creep into affair land and they fall apart. Many times once the paperwork stage starts the affair partner will bail because they are just looking for fun, not a relationship. 

Time is not your ally, get a deal cut quickly, don't plan on her guilt to play into anything (she won't have any). Most affairs fall apart rather quickly. It will be a whole new ballgame once she gets dumped....


----------



## bandit.45

Also, don't hope that she will come crawling back. They rarely do. We have rarely seen such behavior on TAM. 

Most waywards would rather live their lives miserable and alone than give up their pride and admit they screwed up and ask for forgiveness. It does happen, but very rarely. 

Check out my thread "Myth: They Come Crawling Back".


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Melrose8888 said:


> ...all the evidence I've seen and heard, it sounds as though they are obsessed with each other and he too will divorce...


Easier said than done. It sounds more like he knows what words to use to get into your wife's pants. If I had to bet, I'd say he'll still be married to the same woman years from now (once she forgives him).


----------



## sokillme

Tatsuhiko said:


> Another reason for exposure is the potential to bring your wife back to reality. Often the OM has no intention of leaving his wife, but is rather just using your wife for sex. When his own wife finds out, he's suddenly 100% in reconciliation mode. He might throw your wife under the bus, completely cutting her out, showing her just how "true" their "true love" was. It's at that point that a WW often realizes how much "true love" she still has for her own husband. And it's at that point that you can decide whether there's enough for reconciliation.


And then you are stuck forever being plan B, no thanks. No one should accept this as a good deal, it's not. I feel bad for anyone who does, especially when there are SO MANY better people out there. I mean all you need is a basically decent person and you end up 1000 times better then a cheater. In my opinion no one accepts this as their fate really recovers.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> Jeremy Kyle aside (!) lots of useful debate, so thanks.
> 
> @sokillme - amazing, read all of that link and it is almost an exact copy of my situation! I've taken steps again today to take control, told her she won't be staying overnight at the house and have stuck to the 180 rules on communication.
> 
> I have IC tomorrow and can't wait to start on my individual recovery.
> 
> As soon as I have the seal on the financial settlement, I'll be exposing the affair to all parties and will start to tell my side of the story too. There is simply too much to lose to do it right now but I feel for the OBS.
> 
> Plus, it might sound familiar to those who have been through this but all the evidence I've seen and heard, it sounds as though they are obsessed with each other and he too will divorce and get together with the 'mother of my kids'. (See, I'm learning!)
> 
> I must also be honest, there is still the tiniest part of me that hopes she will come back pleading for R but I think that is so I can play along for a day and then tell her where to stick it.
> 
> The eldest kid is very smart but very emotional, he knows what is coming and when he and his brother are older, he will know why.
> 
> Any tips on how to turn the anger, rage and upset that rears it's ugly head into positive thinking / actions? It's still the part I struggle with, even on 'good' days like today.


Yeah use the anger and rage to make yourself the best you can. Use it to get in best shape of your life, do the things you always wanted, make the most money you ever made or anything else you always wanted to do. Basically use it to prove her wrong, prove everyone wrong who was ever down on you. Now eventually you won't care but when you do you will wake up in such a better place then you would have been then if you ruminated on it and ended up wasting years being depressed about it. I always looked at it like I lost in a sporting event, the only think I wanted to do was bet better and go back and win. I somewhat still do. I am a good husband to my wife, who deserves it, even if that other fool doesn't know it, it's her loss.


----------



## VladDracul

sokillme said:


> First off you also posted on SI didn't you?
> 
> If you can't then start asking yourself why you are willing to settle for begging a woman who is willing to abandon her family. You can do better in your life, and whether you know it or not watching this is not healthy for your kids.


Over the many moons I've been around, and seen this type thing play out time and time again, I concluded there a two reason that are applicable to 90+% of the cases. First, its like the many folks that continue to hold bad investments they've made. Its a shot to the ego to "certify" you've made a mistake and your judgement was off. There's a big similarity between hanging on to a stock thinking (wishing and hoping) it will come back and holding on to a bad marriage.
Second, there are a number of guys out there who, deep down, believe they "maxed out" when they won the hand of the now disloyal wife and don't have what it takes to do better and/or don't have it in them to try. They believe letting go is just proof they are just a flop with chicks and proof they can't "hold" a woman's interest. 
The third reason you hear about is that they want to stay in married to their spouse for the kids, financial reasons, don't believe in divorce, et cetera, et cetera. The majority of guys saying these things a both deceiving themselves and attempting to deceive their audience; all to save face. They really fall under the first or second reason they continue to hold out. I kinda think our boy Mel fall under number one.


----------



## sokillme

VladDracul said:


> Over the many moons I've been around, and seen this type thing play out time and time again, I concluded there a two reason that are applicable to 90+% of the cases. First, its like the many folks that continue to hold bad investments they've made. Its a shot to the ego to "certify" you've made a mistake and your judgement was off. There's a big similarity between hanging on to a stock thinking (wishing and hoping) it will come back and holding on to a bad marriage.
> Second, there are a number of guys out there who, deep down, believe they "maxed out" when they won the hand of the now disloyal wife and don't have what it takes to do better and/or don't have it in them to try.
> The third reason you hear about is that they want to stay in married to their spouse for the kids, financial reasons, don't believe in divorce, et cetera, et cetera. The majority of guys saying these things a both deceiving themselves and attempting to deceive their audience; all to save face. They really fall under the first or second reason they continue to hold out.


I agree with the sunk cost fallacy assessment. So many people seem to fall for this. Not a good way to live. 

My theory on why so many of these these guys are on here and accept such conditions is because this was and is their nature. The WS could sense this consciously or subconsciously and therefor picked them to marry precisely because they were an easy mark so to speak. Again as I have said before parasite and host, that is the dynamic here. People with a stronger sense of self-esteem (or whatever you want to call it) would probably have been long gone or made it so difficult for the WS that they would have never gotten as far as marriage. This is why we keep seeing threads like this over and over. It fits the pattern, the BS is the kind of person who doesn't fight back, so unless they are lucky they end up with people who treat them terrible. Just like the Bully on the school yard picks the weakest kid to torment, they never mess with the kid who will punch them in the nose. This is really the same dynamic.

This doesn't mean people with strong wills don't get cheated on, it means that a person with good sense of self worth, boundaries or whatever divorce pretty quickly when cheated on. There SO is an a55hole and don't try to hold on to them because who wants to be with an a55hole. These aren't the type of people who post on boards asking "what they should do", because it's pretty obvious to them that it's time to move on. Even though it is very painful.


----------



## ILoveSparkles

Let's not forget that she has no problem putting their kids' lives in danger - driving drunk with them in the car.


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## Melrose8888

I think the bad stock analogy is correct but I do see it as bad now but will only give it away at a low cost to me.

Update is that after telling her not to stay at the house, tonight she tells me she is staying at a girl friends in our town (but left with new makeup and outfit on!). Facebook snoop showed she wasn't and in fact, that friend was telling her to 'have a great night '.

I know I shouldn't care and I can't control her actions but still, here I am, still being lied to and now her dippy (married) friends are fully behind her affair?! Are we in a society that just sees these things as the norm these days?!

My ask here is how do I communicate my side of the story to her friends and family so that the truth doesn't get rewritten? What forms of communication are best, without making it a public, she said, he said?

Financial discussion is tonight, if I don't see signs of me getting what I need for my boys stability, I think it might well be time to expose...


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Update is that after telling her not to stay at the house, tonight she tells me she is staying at a girl friends in our town (but left with new makeup and outfit on!). Facebook snoop showed she wasn't and in fact, that friend was telling her to 'have a great night '.
> 
> I know I shouldn't care and I can't control her actions but still, here I am, still being lied to and now her dippy (married) friends are fully behind her affair?! Are we in a society that just sees these things as the norm these days?!


She lying to you but to all the friends of the marriage too. Make no mistake the rewrite is well underway and has been with her friends for some time. You are now finding out that theses people were never your friends. They were and are hers.
She deserves more. You ignored her. This new man will be good for her. She looks so happy. etc, etc. 




Melrose8888 said:


> My ask here is how do I communicate my side of the story to her friends and family so that the truth doesn't get rewritten? What forms of communication are best, without making it a public, she said, he said?
> 
> Financial discussion is tonight, if I don't see signs of me getting what I need for my boys stability, I think it might well be time to expose...


Do not bother with the rewrite. Unfriend all these people. They are not your friends. He family is no longer your family beyond a link as grandparents. They are not on your side.

Expose the affair and watch the fireworks as they go in to damage control. Sitting on this will do you no favours. Your boys need to see their Dad being strong and taking a stand at this absurd behaviour. TExpose using names and dates. Be specific as she will try and cover her tracks. Tell the Other mans partner. this is important. She is being gaslighted and it needs to end.

You need to stand strong for your boys. Be stable, be a rock. Start NOW as they already are adrift and don't know why.
This is modeling how they will behave in the future

Here is the primary loop you need to run in your head. There are no "if" statements. 
while
Wife in affair
do 
exit
done


----------



## sokillme

Time to let the lawyer take the reins just get the best lawyer you can. 

As far as her friends go. You have no idea what they really think. She is off in la la land, life will catch up to her. Just work on you.


----------



## Melrose8888

Quick update, too tired...

Had financial chat tonight, started with a few frank questions, as I heard via friend that the POSOM separated from his wife last week. So I need to know if they were moving in together, as this would affect the finances. Apparently not but as if I believe a word she says anyway.

Started with very low ball number that she scoffed at. Got to a number she liked and i told her it was unworkable and I'll have to go all the way to court and the fact she is with her high earning boss will be in my favour for spousal maintenance (she is higher earner now - proves sleeping with your boss gets you £...).

Met half way (that is 30/70 of assets to me as I will take on family home for boys stability) but I'm now concerned that our financial mediator and ultimately the judge who presides over consent order, will see that as 'unfair'? (Not really, her *** ing her boss while married to me is unfair...).

I'm glad to be shot of the cheating beeatch but the affair and them being together continues to derail my 180 plans.


----------



## lostmyreligion

Have you read sun tzu?

If not, you should read sun tzu.

If you've read it before, you should read it again.

Divorce is heinous and bloody battle.


----------



## TaDor

Melrose8888 said:


> Update is that after telling her not to stay at the house, tonight she tells me she is staying at a girl friends in our town (but left with new makeup and outfit on!). Facebook snoop showed she wasn't and in fact, that friend was telling her to 'have a great night '.
> 
> I know I shouldn't care and I can't control her actions but still, here I am, still being lied to and now her dippy (married) friends are fully behind her affair?! Are we in a society that just sees these things as the norm these days?!
> 
> My ask here is how do I communicate my side of the story to her friends and family so that the truth doesn't get rewritten? What forms of communication are best, without making it a public, she said, he said? ~I think it might well be time to expose...


She's be lying about her affair and she is lying to you know. You pretty much won't know when she is ever telling you the truth. May want to ask her "Lying all the time - is not healthy for the kids, you are teaching them that lying and cheating is acceptable". Her slooty friend is most likely a cheater too. If you really feel like getting involved, ask that friend's BF "Do you know your wife supports my wife cheating? She covered for my cheating slot wife - maybe she had covered for you?"

Look up Exposure 101 to do it properly. But ya, because at this point - what people are thinking is that YOU both have separated and she is "open for business" because you're a jerk or whatever junk she has said about you. share / show proof - such as pics, recordings, whatever - but maybe not stuff you can use against her in court. Not everything, but enough to get the point across. (Whatever I shared with the public wasn't even 1% of what I had).


----------



## emmasmith

Want to ask her Lying all the time is not healthy for the kids and you are teaching them that lying and cheating is acceptable.


----------



## JohnA

30 percent to who? Seems like a foolish question but read enough threads.....

Second strive for a cash equity buy out not future payments. Future payments may or may not happen, especially if they both are fired in the future. A year from now POS may fire her and promote new toy. 

My ex's pos BW took most of the equity in the home for reduced child support. Six months later he was fired and had nothing. Dumb ****.


----------



## alte Dame

What is the attitude over there re bosses having A's with their (direct?) reports? Most companies here are very concerned about it for many obvious reasons. Your WW is being given preferential treatment because she has a relationship with a higher-up. The company is vulnerable to all sorts of legal action because of what they are doing. If the A goes south, she can easily claim sexual harassment, whether it's valid or not.

I would do what others have said - blow this up both at their work and with the OMW. You've heard that the OM left his BW, but the chances are VERY high that the poor woman has no idea that he is cheating. He likely gave her an excuse out of the cheater's handbook like he 'needs space' or he 'feels disconnected and has to leave for a while.'

His BW has a right to know, for sure, but I would also write a legal letter to the company to report the illicit relationship.


----------



## Melrose8888

Interestingly enough, I drafted a letter for the company today, after I found their policy regarding relationships online. Generally, UK firms are ok with intra company relationships but on two grounds, that there is no conflict of interests and that disclosure is made immediately.
My POS wife's situation is in breach of both, so they'd be in the sh1t, especially given she has a huge financial promotion last month.

However, the financial negotiations are going ok and I am hopeful of getting what me and my sons require. So I will hold off for now but it will be used if things don't work out next week.

She really annoyed me today, she told our boys about her moving into a rented house next week, while I was out. I was clear that any comms with the boys are best done together. Game playing I'm sure but another example of her terrible mothering skills lately and doesn't bode well for co parenting...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Focus on your kids and quit trying to "catch her" unless it benefits you through the legal system. Of course she told them without you, this is why I am NEVER a fan of the "let's keep it quiet" or "kids do not need to know" comments which tend to float around. No, I am not saying the need to become your confidant or sounding board at all. Depending on the ages, none of them need the full gory details, a simple "mommy has a new friend she likes better than daddy, she's leaving" or something like that is much better than playing catch up IMO. 

Actually, this isn't "terrible mothering skills," it is smart. It is called damage control. She has already informed them of something you are hiding. 

Manipulation 101, be first.


----------



## honcho

Melrose8888 said:


> Quick update, too tired...
> 
> Had financial chat tonight, started with a few frank questions, as I heard via friend that the POSOM separated from his wife last week. So I need to know if they were moving in together, as this would affect the finances. Apparently not but as if I believe a word she says anyway.
> 
> Started with very low ball number that she scoffed at. Got to a number she liked and i told her it was unworkable and I'll have to go all the way to court and the fact she is with her high earning boss will be in my favour for spousal maintenance (she is higher earner now - proves sleeping with your boss gets you £...).
> 
> Met half way (that is 30/70 of assets to me as I will take on family home for boys stability) but I'm now concerned that our financial mediator and ultimately the judge who presides over consent order, will see that as 'unfair'? (Not really, her *** ing her boss while married to me is unfair...).
> 
> I'm glad to be shot of the cheating beeatch but the affair and them being together continues to derail my 180 plans.


Get whatever agreement written up by a lawyer as speedy as you can and signed. Odds are in two weeks she will change her mind. One of the great problem with negotiations without legal guys around is its basically meaningless and wayward tend to treat it as a game more than anything. 

She is not "officially" with her higher earning boss so that is meaningless in any posturing for court. If he has indeed split with his wife she's gonna want her "fair" share " so his spending will be curtailed significantly. These are the real world things that start to wreck affairland. Get a legal agreement done and over with fast.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> She really annoyed me today, she told our boys about her moving into a rented house next week, while I was out. I was clear that any comms with the boys are best done together. Game playing I'm sure but another example of her terrible mothering skills lately and doesn't bode well for co parenting...



I know this is hard to get your head around but she is seeing you as the enemy Anything you do, say or plan with her is being discussed with her new man. Her doing this without you about is all about her controlling the message and limiting fallout. Please let your boys know about WHY this is happening calmly and on your own.

Your children will be blaming themselves with no logical explanation forthcoming and I can guarantee that the lies she told them make no sense at all to them.

You MUST expose NOW to family, friends and most importantly the OMW to stop this rubbish propagating. 

As @alte Dame says "You've heard that the OM left his BW, but the chances are VERY high that the poor woman has no idea that he is cheating."

This is almost always the case with cheating men. They lie to the mistress because, well. why not! As long as she keep providing free dirty sex and she keeps believing him he will string her along for as long as possible. 

I see no point in exposing her at work. Everyone at work will know anyway and frankly it is better she is working and making some money.

Exposing to the OM wife will have much more effect

I believe that regardless of Divorce you must kill this affair. I have seen too many men lose access to their children by being too soft believing this is the right way. It isn't. 

Main advice.. .
*Take a dose of concrete and toughen the fck up . *


----------



## Melrose8888

honcho said:


> Get a legal agreement done and over with fast.


Yep, frantically working on getting her to agree, without looking too pushy. But I do realise I need to use their 'bubble' to at least get a decent deal out of this sh1i=tty situation.


----------



## Thor

honcho said:


> Get whatever agreement written up by a lawyer as speedy as you can and signed. Odds are in two weeks she will change her mind. One of the great problem with negotiations without legal guys around is its basically meaningless and wayward tend to treat it as a game more than anything.
> 
> She is not "officially" with her higher earning boss so that is meaningless in any posturing for court. If he has indeed split with his wife she's gonna want her "fair" share " so his spending will be curtailed significantly. These are the real world things that start to wreck affairland. Get a legal agreement done and over with fast.


If you go to mediation, be sure to get an agreement signed and notarized. Mediation isn't official without some kind of signed contract. Even if it isn't as comprehensive as a contract written by a lawyer, a signed mediation agreement makes it very difficult for her to change her mind along the way. Once you get the signed mediation agreement, immediately (that same day if possible) file the uncontested divorce papers. If you can get uncontested papers filed it is nearly a done deal.


----------



## Evinrude58

Great advice given.
You have no idea the importance of speed and legal papers getting filed.

So absolutely correct. Days, hours matter. 
Influence of girlfriends, breakups with AP's, etc. hugely impact your divorce agreement.
Once she thinks she's on her own, she's coming after you in every way possible.

Use her desire to get out to your advantage. Fast. Fast fast.
Narrow window of opportunity here.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi all, quick update and ask for opinion, as I head to mediation.

To set the scene, I don't want R, I want out, fast (divorce petition was actually served to her on Weds) and to do that I want to be able to keep home for our boys, by settling 50/50 on all assets but 70/30 on house (as I put in 75% of deposit three years ago), she pays lump sum child maintenance (as higher earner = £25k) and I let slide that her pensions are £15k more valuable than mine.

Do any of these revelations change the above:

1) She continues to claim 'no overlap'. Her timeline supposedly read (with dates based on my snooping) is:

April - She starts new job, meets boss for first time
June - gets promoted
1 Nov - gets very big (temporary but likely to be perm) promotion
11 Nov - we talked about unhappiness in marriage
14 Nov - She stayed in hotel with boss for team nigh tout, after that her comms to me were different (fewer texts, no kisses, no intimacy)
21 Nov - Asked me for space, which I gave by staying at friends and at this stage we are in MC, my aim / hope to R
9 Dec - I was suspicious and found she was staying in hotel with him that evening
12 Dec - I asked is she having affair. She denied and said just friend in a similar situation, eventually admits to kissing but 'no overlap'
13 Dec - I ask for R, she refused, I filed for D
Since then - she continues to text and call, see him at work (obvs, as her boss!) and staying in hotels with him. Claims sex only happened on 27 Dec for first time.

For me, you don't just go from unhappy to opening your heart, kissing, cuddling with no previous emotional relationship prior to that (I have no hard evidence prior to 14 Nov but can see from FB history, she was searching for him since June and looking at ways out from September). Point is, if I hadn't snooped around and uncovered the infidelity, I would still be none the wiser, even today.

2) They are staying in the same hotel room, he is helping her move out this weekend, is buying her gifts for her rental, are planning to stay at each others rented accommodation (he told wife and kids he was divorcing last week), planning holidays away in June YET on her financial disclosure (form E) she answered no to 'do you plan to cohabit in next 6 months' - what is the definition here? They are both BIG earners, so it surely could impact financial settlement?

3) All (yes, ALL) of her friends are 100% behind her because the story she tells is she was unhappy, she asked for space, happened to get together with boss, no overlap, now she is happy. Leaves out the fact that I had to discover the infidelity myself! Aside from the not actual giving examples of her unhappiness until 21 Nov, this history re-write is so frustrating but ultimately, does it matter given my aim?

4) Given the advanced stage of her new relationship, my biggest fear in all of this, is how soon she introduces him to our boys. I have seen for texts that he is dying for her to meet his kids (teenagers) and given the amount of time they are spending with each other, I know he wants to get involved with our boys. Surely it is reasonable (especially if her time line is as above - she hardly knows this guy) to ask that he has nothing to do with them for X number of months, until boys are settled. But realistically, how is that possible given they are obsessed with each other?

I still just don't get it - why would someone who is unhappy, jump straight into another relationship instead of working on our marriage for us, for the kids. Been wracking my brain to think of signs in the past and the list I can some up with is A) when no sex (2.5 years ago) she said I was free to get a prostitute - not only did she miss the point that I wanted sex with her but she probably built up anxiety that she wasn't fulfilling my needs B) I called her a good Mum but a terrible wife, because she put all kids needs first (selfish of me, I concede but I was low) C) We disagreed on many things to do with the 2nd child, she wanted to do opposite of what we did with first (who is a well balanced young boy) D) AS previously mentioned, I threatened to leave and also started to call her names because of these frustrations (petty, yes but proved unhappiness, I suppose).

I don't know what to expect in mediation today but will update afterwards.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, quick update and ask for opinion, as I head to mediation.
> 
> To set the scene, I don't want R, I want out, fast (divorce petition was actually served to her on Weds) and to do that I want to be able to keep home for our boys, by settling 50/50 on all assets but 70/30 on house (as I put in 75% of deposit three years ago), she pays lump sum child maintenance (as higher earner = £25k) and I let slide that her pensions are £15k more valuable than mine.
> 
> Do any of these revelations change the above:
> 
> 1) She continues to claim 'no overlap'. Her timeline supposedly read (with dates based on my snooping) is:
> 
> April - She starts new job, meets boss for first time
> June - gets promoted
> 1 Nov - gets very big (temporary but likely to be perm) promotion
> 11 Nov - we talked about unhappiness in marriage
> 14 Nov - She stayed in hotel with boss for team nigh tout, after that her comms to me were different (fewer texts, no kisses, no intimacy)
> 21 Nov - Asked me for space, which I gave by staying at friends and at this stage we are in MC, my aim / hope to R
> 9 Dec - I was suspicious and found she was staying in hotel with him that evening
> 12 Dec - I asked is she having affair. She denied and said just friend in a similar situation, eventually admits to kissing but 'no overlap'
> 13 Dec - I ask for R, she refused, I filed for D
> Since then - she continues to text and call, see him at work (obvs, as her boss!) and staying in hotels with him. Claims sex only happened on 27 Dec for first time.
> 
> For me, you don't just go from unhappy to opening your heart, kissing, cuddling with no previous emotional relationship prior to that (I have no hard evidence prior to 14 Nov but can see from FB history, she was searching for him since June and looking at ways out from September). Point is, if I hadn't snooped around and uncovered the infidelity, I would still be none the wiser, even today.
> 
> 2) They are staying in the same hotel room, he is helping her move out this weekend, is buying her gifts for her rental, are planning to stay at each others rented accommodation (he told wife and kids he was divorcing last week), planning holidays away in June YET on her financial disclosure (form E) she answered no to 'do you plan to cohabit in next 6 months' - what is the definition here? They are both BIG earners, so it surely could impact financial settlement?
> 
> 3) All (yes, ALL) of her friends are 100% behind her because the story she tells is she was unhappy, she asked for space, happened to get together with boss, no overlap, now she is happy. Leaves out the fact that I had to discover the infidelity myself! Aside from the not actual giving examples of her unhappiness until 21 Nov, this history re-write is so frustrating but ultimately, does it matter given my aim?
> 
> 4) Given the advanced stage of her new relationship, my biggest fear in all of this, is how soon she introduces him to our boys. I have seen for texts that he is dying for her to meet his kids (teenagers) and given the amount of time they are spending with each other, I know he wants to get involved with our boys. Surely it is reasonable (especially if her time line is as above - she hardly knows this guy) to ask that he has nothing to do with them for X number of months, until boys are settled. But realistically, how is that possible given they are obsessed with each other?
> 
> I still just don't get it - why would someone who is unhappy, jump straight into another relationship instead of working on our marriage for us, for the kids. Been wracking my brain to think of signs in the past and the list I can some up with is A) when no sex (2.5 years ago) she said I was free to get a prostitute - not only did she miss the point that I wanted sex with her but she probably built up anxiety that she wasn't fulfilling my needs B) I called her a good Mum but a terrible wife, because she put all kids needs first (selfish of me, I concede but I was low) C) We disagreed on many things to do with the 2nd child, she wanted to do opposite of what we did with first (who is a well balanced young boy) D) AS previously mentioned, I threatened to leave and also started to call her names because of these frustrations (petty, yes but proved unhappiness, I suppose).
> 
> I don't know what to expect in mediation today but will update afterwards.


No one can tell you why your wife did this, the prostitute thing is pretty telling though, something is broken in her. Her reaction was not normal. She may not even know. You will make yourself crazy trying to figure it out. You are not detaching if you are trying to figure it out. Let her boss deal with it now. From her actions I doubt she is going to be someone who is capable of have a successful long term relationship with anyone. Understand you can be the best husband in the world and it still takes two to make it work. So failure might have always been the destination.

Dude let it go. Work on you. LET HER GO MAN. The sooner you do the better you will feel. There is better out there for you.


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## turnera

Stop trying to understand. Cheaters are drug addicts. They get a high from the affair and it's irresistible and turns them into people you don't recognize. Accept that that happened and move on. She followed the female cheater path to a T. She'll eventually wake up, probably when her boyfriend runs back to his wife when he sees how much money he's going to lose. By then, you won't need her any more.


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## Evinrude58

I'm so sorry. I know this is rough.
HOwever, you have seen her true colors and are doing something about it! THat's freaking awesome and will get your life going again no matter what. You'd be surprised how many people just do nothing and kind of quit. Those are the ones that suffer the most. You are suffering, but you're not going to continue to suffer. For those posters that said you have to let it go and not try to figure it out---- that's the best advice you can get. You will NEVER figure out what happened. If you could talk to her years from now, she'd probably convince you how this was all YOUR fault. And you must know that a large part of this is her fault, and ALL of the affair stuff is her fault. ANyone that has 1 brain cell knows there was "overlap". That's disgusting of her to say and just laughable.

Your wife telling you to get a prostitute is quite telling--- this should tell you that she NEVER planned on having sex with you again and in her mind the marriage was over. No woman would do that.
Her screwed up mind can equate all the evil crap she's done as ok because she was "done" with you a long time ago.

My advice: move on like you're doing, put her in your rearview, and find another woman with more character to spend your life with. I promise you, no matter how you feel now, you are capable of finding love again. And next time it should be far more fulfilling if you choose wisely.
Good luck


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## Thor

Melrose, something is broken inside her. I have some suspicions, but the exact reason doesn't matter. She and her OM are in lurve. Now is the time to strike on the D. Later on you may get some better clues and perhaps some better perspective on why she has chosen this path. I don't think you're going to figure it out any time soon.

As to the cohabitation, I think yes it is relevant to your settlement. But you have to prove it. Your lawyer is the one who can tell you how it may help and how to prove it.

I do know a divorcee who lives with her long term bf. He maintains a cheap separate apartment so that it appears on paper they aren't living together. This way she gets to keep receiving alimony. Bee-otch! But in this state it is possible to prove they are living together if one hires a PI and shows frequent overnight stays. Your lawyer can give you guidance on how it works where you live.


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## Grapes

There is no understanding crazy. To even try will bring you the same fate.


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## 2ntnuf

She probably doesn't really know, beyond she wanted more out of life than she had, a powerful man with money was showing her she was interesting and sexually desirable and she needed that at the time. 

You could have been showing her these things and it wouldn't have the same effect on her because you are her husband and you have to do those things for the sake of the marriage, children, family, pride, etc.

You can discuss that stuff with a counselor, too. 

As for the divorce, go for the most you can get. Don't let her make you feel badly. Don't blame yourself. She made her choice. Get everything you can, including the children at least fifty percent of the time.

Follow what many here have told you already. 

Look up the 180 and follow it.

Exercise and eat right, even if you have to force yourself.

Make sure you have a good attorney.

This is a very confusing and difficult time. It will get better, if you want it and work hard for it. Keep moving forward.


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## browser

turnera said:


> Stop trying to understand. Cheaters are drug addicts. They get a high from the affair and it's irresistible and turns them into people you don't recognize. Accept that that happened and move on



This. ^^

You need to refocus and treat the relationship with your soon to be exwife as a rapidly fading distant memory. The more you dwell on the "why" the more it will hold you back. There's no rhyme or reason to it anyway, you're looking for answers that simply do not exist. You'd be better off trying to figure out how the universe is infinitely large or something of that nature. That one always baffled me. How can the universe simply "go on forever". And if it doesn't go on forever, what's after it? But I digress.


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## 23cm

Your marriage is toast so just accept that. Devote the energies you'd be putting to finding out what, why and when of her affair to researching her affair partner, the man who will likely be spending time with your kids. What kind of work? Temperament? Any arrests? Drinking/dope habits? Can you run a credit check? Just do a full Sherlock Holmes on him. Protect your kids. And, get rid of the woman who suggested you see a prostitute for your needs...get rid of her fast and while she's still in the fog.


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## bandit.45

Melrose your wife is a "grass is greener" type. She will never be satisfied with what she has. She will be happy with this new schmuck for a while, but after a few years she will tire of him and be looking for a new pasture. 

DO NOT let her badmouth you to others or lie about how the marriage failed. You need to protect your reputation, and if that means putting out the Facebook clarion call to all your mutual friends then you need to do it. Wait until the divorce is finalized first, but make sure you set the record straight, or you will never forgive yourself.


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## JohnA

None of what you wrote changes a thing. Focus on the terms of your divorce. Also any child over the age of four must be told about the adultery in an age appropriate manner. 

She is rewriting the marriage history to fit the narrative of her fantasy. Do not allow this to occur and don't argue with her about. Going forward share the facts if someone wants to know and you are willing to share and walk away.


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## JohnA

At this point do not expose to work. Someone else will do it for you from within the company. If the UK is like the US the courts will not give a damn if she gets fired in six months. Pay up or jail. Yea jail in the US in many cases. So get it done! 

Timeline use that as the basis of your exposure letter to both families and friends. Man, I pray you get then terms discussed!!! Primary custody in current home - huge long term win for you!


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## inging

I know the timeline seems ridiculous but it could well be true. She fell in love and now she is going to introduce your teenage kids to her new man. This will not go well..

She is in full fantasy mode. It could last for years so the less contact you have with her the better. Everyone has said gets things signed quickly. The moment she tries to introduce her kids to Mr Wonderful her world will start to crumble as most kids don't like the person that took away their family. It is very important that you tell your kids about this guy. If you have his name so much the better as she will attempt to introduce him as someone she miraculously met and as the good guy. Next step he is staying over and your kids are in the house with him.. 

You are doing great. Keep moving forward and don't talk to her anymore. She will take every opportunity tell you of her happiness, how it will all work out. It won't her life is now officially ruined.


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## Marc878

Your kids are old enough to know the truth. Full exposure on this.


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## Melrose8888

Thanks all for your continued support and reminding me that (most of the time) I am doing the right thing.

My feelings today? Relief, a hint of peace and a hint of expectation.

Why? Because I came home from a weekend away with my kids and, as agreed, the ex had actually moved all of her things out of the house into her new rental. It felt less sad than I was expecting and actually gave me hope for my future.

Plus, she just sent back the divorce acknowledgement papers, so we are well on the way to Decree Nisi.

Also, mediation on Friday went nearly as well as I could have hoped on the finance front, we arrived at a figure that just about allows me to take on the mortgage and stay in the home with the boys. On paper, it looks as though I am getting a decent deal (but it's all for the stability of the boys, nothing done here out of spite), so until the mediation paperwork is signed, the consent order is officially drafted and the court stamps it, I will remain guarded but given we both want out ASAP, I hope this will pass OK in next 6-8 weeks.

She did make some non financial demands: 1) don't tell her work about the fact she is ****ing her boss 2) That she wants us to communicate better 3) she wants me to meet the OM so we can all move on and be friends (!!!) 4) She asked how I knew where she was all the time, if I had put a tracker on her! (told her I actually just found clues, texts and blagged the rest!)

The co-parenting plan started OK too, I let the ex take the lead, still agree in 50/50 and I simple ended by saying, I want to parent the boys exactly as I do now but without your direct input and support, so I will communicate in appropriate means as and when. However, I did then ask her when she was hoping to introduce the POSOM to the boys. She started by saying that OM is going to be a big part of her life, expects them to be together and he has a lot to offer the children (I hated that expression, for some reason), so she wants him to meet them ASAP...

I refused on the grounds that, the boys need stability in transitioning to our new shared living arrangements and according to her timeline (!), her and the OM have only known each other 9 months and been in a 'relationship' since early December and no one really knows what he is like, especially around someone else's kids. She reluctantly agreed to use Divorce date as a target for first meeting but I expect she will ignore that and have him stay over when they are all there next week.

We then had a chat alone afterwards - I've been full 180 aside from odd slip up, so no comms for ages, so she had a lot she was dying to tell me and I needed a couple of answers for my mind.

In a nutshell, she is in the pursuit of happiness above all else and it 'just so happened' that her boss was there at the time she had a light-bulb moment...

She started by admitting the marriage wasn't that bad but mentioned a possible MLC again (almost always comes up when we did talk over past 2 months) and said she turned 40 last year, decided she had reached the limit of what she was prepared to 'put up with', the need to feel 'alive' and a longing to 'live her life'. She would have felt 'trapped' if I had got ill / made redundant and she 'had to look after me' and that we had drifted apart and had different views. Everything felt like an 'effort'. She tried to play the no overlap game again, at which point I stepped in and made it clear that I had to discover the infidelity, so despite telling me she wanted a break, kissing and cuddling and emotional support for months is still infidelity. She said it's 'the only part she regrets' and 'can see' how hurtful that was for me. I asked her to correct any story she may have told that omits this fact, else it makes ME look like I am bitter, twisted and crazy.

That said she mentioned hadn't felt anywhere near as much emotion / sadness about the breakup as she expected and is taking that as a sign that it is the right decision. Also mentioned that me filing for D actually made her push on quicker with her new relationship with OM, as it felt natural...

Aside from discussions over the kids and wrapping up finances and the D itself, that conversation was actually useful for me. So although I agree with the 180, there does come a time (often after you have finalised as much as you can re the D) and certainly if you are parents, that I feel you do need to have the cathartic 'closure' discussion. It's done me good, I no longer blame myself but realise I should have got out / asked for MC when the prostitute offer was made all those years ago.

It is onwards and upwards, I'll hold my head higher, even when the rollercoaster of emotions kick in again.


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## Mr.Fisty

She is kidding herself if she beleives you can be friends with the OM. The only communication you need between the two of you is for the children and an amicable relationship is best. It will help detach you further from her and being buddy, buddy will only muddy those waters. She is not your friend.


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## Melrose8888

23cm said:


> Your marriage is toast so just accept that. Devote the energies you'd be putting to finding out what, why and when of her affair to researching her affair partner, the man who will likely be spending time with your kids. What kind of work? Temperament? Any arrests? Drinking/dope habits? Can you run a credit check? Just do a full Sherlock Holmes on him. Protect your kids. And, get rid of the woman who suggested you see a prostitute for your needs...get rid of her fast and while she's still in the fog.


Well, I know who he is, what he does (IT Director of a large organisation), where he and his wife live (well, not now that he is staying with my ex), all his past jobs and directorships. The other parts are not clear, though he has been staying in hotels for months if not years, during the week and even the texts I've seen between him and ex, he talks about drinking in the bar lots and jokes he is 'going to pick up a lady', presumably to keep my ex on her toes. So I expect he is an 'expert' at this...

Anyway, I think this is one I'm just going to have to judge from distance and (when the inevitable happens and they meet) from what the kids tell me.


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## Melrose8888

Mr.Fisty said:


> She is kidding herself if she beleives you can be friends with the OM. The only communication you need between the two of you is for the children and an amicable relationship is best. It will help detach you further from her and being buddy, buddy will only muddy those waters. She is not your friend.


I totally agree, just need to make sure the balance is right to make sure the kids aren't affected.


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## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> ANyone that has 1 brain cell knows there was "overlap". That's disgusting of her to say and just laughable.


I guess that means all of her friends only have 1 brain cell!


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## Melrose8888

2ntnuf said:


> She probably doesn't really know, beyond she wanted more out of life than she had, a powerful man with money was showing her she was interesting and sexually desirable and she needed that at the time.
> 
> You could have been showing her these things and it wouldn't have the same effect on her because you are her husband and you have to do those things for the sake of the marriage, children, family, pride, etc.
> 
> You can discuss that stuff with a counselor, too.
> 
> As for the divorce, go for the most you can get. Don't let her make you feel badly. Don't blame yourself. She made her choice. Get everything you can, including the children at least fifty percent of the time.
> 
> Follow what many here have told you already.
> 
> Look up the 180 and follow it.
> 
> Exercise and eat right, even if you have to force yourself.
> 
> Make sure you have a good attorney.
> 
> This is a very confusing and difficult time. It will get better, if you want it and work hard for it. Keep moving forward.


Boy, this is all so true...hard to take nonetheless but it's so crazy to imagine it seems that simple, in her mind.


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## Mr.Fisty

Since she is going to bring on the chaotic factor, they need a safe harbor for stability. You cannot stop her from introducing the OM and that is dumb on her own end as children like to form attachments. The only time someone should introduce a partner is when the relationship is stable for a long time, not during some magical high of a new relationship.

Is it too late to add in a clause where she cannot introduce a new man until the divorce is over for at least a year? I am banking that their relationship will not last that long but who knows. I highly doubt she will agree with that on her own without it. You really do not want her to introduce a string of men into their lives as this will affect how they will treat relationship. The best you can do is litigate some of her being a poor role model by being an exemplary one yourself.


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## inging

Oh this is priceless. She really is playing by the handbook!

She genuinely believes that this will all work out. The Unicorns saddled up and flying in formation.

No you will not be friends. Friends stab you in the Front

It will take longer than the Divorce to come though so just duck and cover for a while. Stay away from her and never answer her phone calls. Always call her back a bit later. It will drive her crazy and give you a chuckle when she gets annoyed. Petty but we all deserve a chuckle.


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## Lostinthought61

Melrose have you and the OM wife spoken? Perhaps you should if only to compare notes...there is power in numbers.


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## Melrose8888

Xenote - nope, I did want to tell her (my moral stance that she had the right to know) but all my mates told me not to take responsibility for that (and any fall out) and my IC said the same "he needs to tell her".
That said, the STBXW did admit on Friday, that the OM wife doesn't know about her...
But what would be the benefit now anyway?


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## Melrose8888

Mr.Fisty said:


> Is it too late to add in a clause where she cannot introduce a new man until the divorce is over for at least a year?


Mediation is writing up that Divorce date is the target - that said, as I am the petitioner, that date is in my control, (STBXW could push for final D but only 6 months plus 6 weeks after Nisi is issued)


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## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Xenote - nope, I did want to tell her (my moral stance that she had the right to know) but all my mates told me not to take responsibility for that (and any fall out) and my IC said the same "he needs to tell her".
> That said, the STBXW did admit on Friday, that the OM wife doesn't know about her...
> But what would be the benefit now anyway?


I thought you had told her.. You need to tell her now. She is being gaslighted and is about to be hit even harder than you were. Would you want to be told? Yep thought so. Keep it factual and brief. Leave contact details if she wants to talk further.


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## Tatsuhiko

There is a good chance this will all end up as a big disaster for your STBXW. You really know nothing about the relationship between OM and his wife. It's possible that he's lying to your wife and is still fully-engaged in his marriage. He's telling his wife that he's "working late" etc., but having regular sex with her. When his wife gets wind of the affair, OM might do everything in his power to save his own marriage, going no contact with your STBXW. She might have an epiphany at that point. 

I think you have an ethical obligation to tell his wife. No betrayed spouse should be kept in the dark about the real nature of their marriage.


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## Melrose8888

I hear what you and inging are saying but aside from morals (of which I do agree), what benefit is this going to be to me now? I have the financial agreement lined up, agreement to have my boys 50% of the time and I don't want anything to do with the ex.

From the texts I've seen from him as recently as last week (yes, I know they could be BS) it all seems over on his side too, e.g. OM wife angry that he is moving out and leaving the kids behind, wants financial security etc.

This sounds harsh to the OM wife but it's not my problem, I need to look after myself now, not get involved in the other marriage that clearly has / had major issues as much as mine did, if the OM is doing what my STBXW did to me.


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## turnera

You can tell her after the divorce is final.


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## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks all for your continued support and reminding me that (most of the time) I am doing the right thing.
> 
> My feelings today? Relief, a hint of peace and a hint of expectation.
> 
> Why? Because I came home from a weekend away with my kids and, as agreed, the ex had actually moved all of her things out of the house into her new rental. It felt less sad than I was expecting and actually gave me hope for my future.
> 
> Plus, she just sent back the divorce acknowledgement papers, so we are well on the way to Decree Nisi.
> 
> Also, mediation on Friday went nearly as well as I could have hoped on the finance front, we arrived at a figure that just about allows me to take on the mortgage and stay in the home with the boys. On paper, it looks as though I am getting a decent deal (but it's all for the stability of the boys, nothing done here out of spite), so until the mediation paperwork is signed, the consent order is officially drafted and the court stamps it, I will remain guarded but given we both want out ASAP, I hope this will pass OK in next 6-8 weeks.
> 
> She did make some non financial demands: *1) don't tell her work about the fact she is ****ing her boss *2) That she wants us to communicate better 3) she wants me to meet the OM so we can all move on and be friends (!!!) 4) She asked how I knew where she was all the time, if I had put a tracker on her! (told her I actually just found clues, texts and blagged the rest!)
> 
> The co-parenting plan started OK too, I let the ex take the lead, still agree in 50/50 and I simple ended by saying, I want to parent the boys exactly as I do now but without your direct input and support, so I will communicate in appropriate means as and when. However, I did then ask her when she was hoping to introduce the POSOM to the boys. She started by saying that OM is going to be a big part of her life, expects them to be together and he has a lot to offer the children (I hated that expression, for some reason), so she wants him to meet them ASAP...
> 
> I refused on the grounds that, the boys need stability in transitioning to our new shared living arrangements and according to her timeline (!), her and the OM have only known each other 9 months and been in a 'relationship' since early December and no one really knows what he is like, especially around someone else's kids. *She reluctantly agreed to use Divorce date as a target for first meeting but I expect she will ignore that and have him stay over when they are all there next week.*


If I were you I'd let her know that if she breaks the agreement about the kids meeting OM you'll immediately inform HR.



Melrose8888 said:


> I hear what you and inging are saying but aside from morals (of which I do agree), what benefit is this going to be to me now?


What benefit do we get from helping you? What benefit was it to me to give you that advice above? Don't be so selfish, tell her.


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## Satya

If you want to wait that's your choice, but perhaps the om's wife will feel like a right idiot when she learns AFTER her divorce that her husband was cheating. She may feel entitled to more recompense than she was allowed to pursue due to lack of knowledge. Entirely your choice though.


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## Melrose8888

OK, so I know you guys are right. I really feel for her and I know I'd want to know if it were reserved.

But yes, I am being selfish for the first time in ages, because I've worked so damn hard to get what I need from this sh1tstorm. Telling would risk it all, given how unstable the STBXW is acting at the moment.

Is it fair enough to wait until the consent order for boys and finances is sealed, then tell? 6 weeks, probably.


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## Melrose8888

Nucking Futs said:


> If I were you I'd let her know that if she breaks the agreement about the kids meeting OM you'll immediately inform HR.



Great idea, had missed that opportunity - thanks!


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## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, so I know you guys are right. I really feel for her and I know I'd want to know if it were reserved.
> 
> But yes, I am being selfish for the first time in ages, because I've worked so damn hard to get what I need from this sh1tstorm. Telling would risk it all, given how unstable the STBXW is acting at the moment.
> 
> Is it fair enough to wait until the consent order for boys and finances is sealed, then tell? 6 weeks, probably.


I think it's fair to wait but not forever, remember you have suffered through this, part of the pain you are going through right now is that you don't know the full details. There is another human being out there who may be feeling the same thing, and you may have it in your hands to help her. What kind of person do you want to be? Do you want your wives bitter actions to change you to be "selfish" as you call it? 

Part of recovery is using a terrible event to get stronger as a person. It's like morally and emotionally lifting weights. You can take pride in knowing you are a better person than a lying cheat like your wife. It talks some of the sting away because she gave up you (a decent person who went out of his way to help someone being abused) to be with the guy doing the abusing, and even helping him do it. Then later when he moves on (and he will) and your wife is being particularly difficult you can throw it in her face. "Oh and by the way I told his wife." Fun. 

If it was me I would tell her anonymously and if I was asked by my wife I would deny deny deny. This is a workplace affair it's not like others don't know about it. After everything is done, I would introduce myself to the wife and explain why I did it anonymously. Probably take her out for drinks too.


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## Evinrude58

Take care of you. Once you are able without injury to yourself or those dependent upon you, then do what you can to give the other man's wife the full story.

You are thinking and acting wisely.
Keep it up.


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## farsidejunky

Get the agreement signed before you tell the OM wife.

Period.


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## 2ntnuf

Melrose8888 said:


> Xenote - nope, I did want to tell her (my moral stance that she had the right to know) but all my mates told me not to take responsibility for that (and any fall out) and my IC said the same "he needs to tell her".
> That said, the STBXW did admit on Friday, that the OM wife doesn't know about her...
> But what would be the benefit now anyway?


Depends on how court proceedings go. I think it's a good idea to talk to her later on, if you desire to close some loopholes and she's willing and needing some answers, too. I think she will, since she is going to be blindsided. She has a husband who makes good money and is taking care of her. She will want to hammer him as hard as she can and take all she can get from him for now and the future. She may need information from you to do that. 

It's up to you what happens. They won't likely tell her how to get in touch with you. 

Also, your wife asked you not to say anything to her. Why? Because she is worried he will lose too much when she finds out the truth. I think he deserves to lose as mush as possible. I think that because of what he did to your children. I know they are older and probably have seen this coming, but it has to hurt them, too. 

Don't know if this AP has children, but if he does, he did this the wrong way and hurt them, too. 

In the end, I wouldn't willy nilly tell her or anyone, but I might let someone else send her an untraceable message letting her know you(or there is information available) do have information if needed or maybe just that you are willing to talk. I wouldn't tell her you are willing to talk unless your divorce is finished.

There will be members with more ideas on how to do this, if you decide to take it further. There will be some who say no way. Don't do it. Ultimately, if it doesn't hurt you or your children and helps the AP's ex and his children, I think it is right to do and almost a responsibility. If it isn't. 

You have to take care of you and your children first, though. Don't jeopardize your deal. Get it signed and done and then you can decide about this. I hope this goes as quick as you think it will. If you have what you want and the best you can get out of this mess, you might want to keep things quiet till it's finished.


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## 2ntnuf

If his ex is decent looking, you two could hook up and get all that anger out in sex. I know that's crazy. Someone here did that before. I can't remember the circumstances. I was an errant thought.


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## Tron

farsidejunky said:


> Get the agreement signed before you tell the OM wife.
> 
> Period.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

As soon as there is a point where there is no going back on the agreement then do it.


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## KaggyBear

your wife sounds terrible. give up


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## Sparta

OP You need to tell the OMs wife and I would definitely report it to HR she did you wrong payback is a b!tch.


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## bandit.45

I would tell the OM's wife now. Because, well... it's the right thing to do. You can spin it to yourself anyway you want, validate your reasons anyway you want, make up any reason that comforts you to not inform her. 

There is a woman out there who is being taken advantage of in the same way your WW is taking advantage of you, except there is a good chance she doesn't know she's being victimized. Like a person with leeches latched onto her privates. 

But it's up to you. Do what is most profitable to yourself, and fvck everyone else I guess....


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## TX-SC

I think you are doing the right thing by staying quiet until the divorce is done. You need to play softball will her for now. Get a good settlement and get your divorce over and done with before causing trouble. In fact, I wouldn't tell her job at all. If she is to pay you monthly, keep her working!

Your wife had an exit affair. It sucks for you but she was leaving your marriage one way or the other. Let her go. Worry about you and your kids only. But, to [email protected] with meeting and being friends with that douche bag! 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 Your wife is very troubled. Far more troubled than you might realise.

How so? She equates sexual intercourse with herself with sexual intercourse with a prostitute.

She might -even unconsciously- see sexual intercourse with her wealthy boss in the same way as a prostitute sees sex with a client. Mainly as a business proposition.


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## Chaparral

Some people do the right thing, other people are weasels and don't. I find that is generally the map their lives follow and they get the results they deserve.


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## MattMatt

Chaparral said:


> Some people do the right thing, other people are weasels and don't. I find that is generally the map their lives follow and they get the results they deserve.


With natural British reticence this is what you get.


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## Melrose8888

OK, so wait for seal from court on consent order, then tell OM Wife - got it.

Still not sure how to do it, anonymously is preference, as I don't really want to be supportive (tongue in cheek here: she probably isn't much of a looker if the OM is anything to go by...  )


And no, I don't want to be friends with him but the connection with my kids (still both very young) is bound to come up sooner than I hope - the problem is my boys are very sociable and will probably connect with him straight away, which will hurt so much.

To reaffirm what she said after mediation, she really believes that both of us will be much happier because of this and she's has freed us both.

What is still playing on my mind is how I am left dealing with all this crap, while she ploughs on with her life, getting laid, taken out for meals, going for weekends away, holidays booked with him for the summer already. Resentment? Fear? Maybe.

I AM concentrating on myself and my needs but given I want to get to what she currently has, ASAP, it's too easy to compare ATM.


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## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, so wait for seal from court on consent order, then tell OM Wife - got it.
> 
> Still not sure how to do it, anonymously is preference, as I don't really want to be supportive (tongue in cheek here: she probably isn't much of a looker if the OM is anything to go by...  )
> 
> 
> And no, I don't want to be friends with him but the connection with my kids (still both very young) is bound to come up sooner than I hope - the problem is my boys are very sociable and will probably connect with him straight away, which will hurt so much.
> 
> To reaffirm what she said after mediation, she really believes that both of us will be much happier because of this and she's has freed us both.
> 
> What is still playing on my mind is how I am left dealing with all this crap, while she ploughs on with her life, getting laid, taken out for meals, going for weekends away, holidays booked with him for the summer already. Resentment? Fear? Maybe.
> 
> I AM concentrating on myself and my needs but given I want to get to what she currently has, ASAP, it's too easy to compare ATM.


Melrose,

Its been said that people usually affair down and in this case its no different.
A wise person said it's not how you start but how you finish that counts, how is this situation with lover boy likely to progress? everything has happened so fast, they both think they've found their soul mate, the fantasia castle they've built life on in Disney Land is actually a Mud Hut on a Sandy Beach waiting for the tide to come in and easily erode it away. 

You're a man of virtue, integrity and honour.
Yes, what's happened to you is really dire and it will take a year or more to come back from this, but come back you will my friend. 

You will find a better person and from day 1 will have those boundaries in place to prevent such a deplorable act from being committed against you again. But you will have a new relationship with someone who has values, has honour and integrity also. The foundations of that relationship will be set deep and will have a better chance of working out, because my friend it will be built on truth, on reality. Not sneaking around in the shadows being a POS.

I assure you that you will see life in Technicolor for the first time, you will look back on the relationship with your POS Ex and it will be like a bad black and white B movie.

Rest assured YOU will be the better parent, YOU will lead by example, YOU will be ok. In all honesty you're the favourite in the Kentucky derby and those who appear to be setting off in to the sunset are actually limping out the starting gate and rolling up to be the 250-1 outsiders of the race.

You will be ok.


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## Melrose8888

Danny - you are so good with your supportive words. Thank you.


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## Steve1000

Melrose8888 said:


> Danny - you are so good with your supportive words. Thank you.


Yes, it is currently not fair at all that your wife is seamlessly going on with her life with dates and travel plans. Someday you will know that you have recovered when you don't care at all about what is happening in her life. The goal is your peace and happiness. If your wife came crawling back, it would temporarily dull the immediate pain you're going through, but it would also prevent you from ever truly being happy again.


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## Evinrude58

I disagree with Bandit on this being your moral responsibility to do immediately. Yes, you should tell the OM's wife, and do it as quickly as you can. But this divorce will affect the rest of your life. OM's wife is not your top priority. Your kids and yourself should be your priority. You can't take care of your kids if you haven't taken care of YOU. Once you are in the clear, absolutely tell the OM's wife. Do it in person, not anonymously. You don't have to let her cry on your shoulder, you don't have to be her friend. But do it straight up face to face, and tell her you'd have let her know sooner if you felt you could have without putting the welfare of your kids first. She should understand that.

For all you know, OM's wife could have known about this all along. SHE is not your first responsibility. Your kids are. The divorce affects your kids.

I know your self esteem is at an all time low, you are embarrassed, you are sad about losing the future you had planned. I know you are so screwed up emotionally you don't know which direction you should go. My advice is listen and follow your attorney's advice. Realize that if you are not crazy, have a decent job, don't have any addictions, and are generally a decent guy---- YOU are the hot commodity at your age. Most people are totally nuts, have addictions that make it worse, and don't have a steady job. You will be amazed at how easy it is to catch a woman's interest.
Dating was far more productive in my early 40's than in my early 20's when I had hair and a good physique. I had a lot more interest from younger, far more attractive women than I had earlier in life. I suspect that you will find that to be true as well.

You'll get over this. The first few months are complete misery. But when you start getting better, and start dating and getting your mind on other things, you will improve dramatically. In a couple of years, you might even think it all happened for the best and see that the Old man upstairs was taking care of you a lot better than you thought. I hope that for you. What your wife did is completely wrong.


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## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 I would recommend counselling for you and for your boys, too.


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## 2ntnuf

I meant if M8 wanted to inform her now, before the divorce is final, he may want to do it anonymously. After the divorce, he probably will want to talk with her. If the other BS is okay with talking, he can tell all face to face then. 

He has to protect himself, his children and their divorce agreement until it is over. Pissing her off could backfire. You'd have to check with your attorney about the chances of that. 

I see nothing wrong with seeing her later when your divorce and/or custody agreements are finished. Is there going to be a custody agreement? I can't remember how old they are?

If she comes to you looking for information, I'd give it to her.


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## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> I disagree with Bandit on this being your moral responsibility to do immediately. Yes, you should tell the OM's wife, and do it as quickly as you can. But this divorce will affect the rest of your life. OM's wife is not your top priority. Your kids and yourself should be your priority. You can't take care of your kids if you haven't taken care of YOU. Once you are in the clear, absolutely tell the OM's wife. Do it in person, not anonymously. You don't have to let her cry on your shoulder, you don't have to be her friend. But do it straight up face to face, and tell her you'd have let her know sooner if you felt you could have without putting the welfare of your kids first. She should understand that.
> 
> For all you know, OM's wife could have known about this all along. SHE is not your first responsibility. Your kids are. The divorce affects your kids.
> 
> I know your self esteem is at an all time low, you are embarrassed, you are sad about losing the future you had planned. I know you are so screwed up emotionally you don't know which direction you should go. My advice is listen and follow your attorney's advice. Realize that if you are not crazy, have a decent job, don't have any addictions, and are generally a decent guy---- YOU are the hot commodity at your age. Most people are totally nuts, have addictions that make it worse, and don't have a steady job. You will be amazed at how easy it is to catch a woman's interest.
> Dating was far more productive in my early 40's than in my early 20's when I had hair and a good physique. I had a lot more interest from younger, far more attractive women than I had earlier in life. I suspect that you will find that to be true as well.
> 
> You'll get over this. The first few months are complete misery. But when you start getting better, and start dating and getting your mind on other things, you will improve dramatically. In a couple of years, you might even think it all happened for the best and see that the Old man upstairs was taking care of you a lot better than you thought. I hope that for you. What your wife did is completely wrong.


Thanks, Evinrude, this all makes sense in my mind and I will tell the OM wife once the consent order is final, in approx 6 week time. This allows the finances I need to take on the house (but leaves me flat broke and owing money to my parents). The boys are 7 and 4 and will be shared 50/50, as written up in mediation agreement, no court order / custody terms here.

I hope I do get the success you did in meeting new partners, clearly just want a bit of fun for now but in years to come, I hope to find someone else who does deserve to share everything I still have to give.


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## Lostinthought61

Question as part of the agreement are you not allowed to report them to HR?


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## Melrose8888

Xenote said:


> Question as part of the agreement are you not allowed to report them to HR?


This was mentioned during mediation but I'm not expecting it to be written into the memorandum. Should get documents today.

I don't really want to report them, it was always there as an option, if mediation failed.


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## Melrose8888

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888 I would recommend counselling for you and for your boys, too.


I'm in IC (wasted 3 sessions on MC...). I have considered it for the boys but what kind of things do they support with?


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## inging

After the Divorce you can do what you want. She has no hold on you and you hardly slandering her good name if you tell the truth.

You do not have to meet this guy. Men don't leave their wives for a Mistress. They ADD the mistress and replace her when she is too much trouble. She is about to become a whole lot of trouble especially when his wife finds out. i suspect the new "happy families" is entirely in her head or he just mouths the words. Don't even consider it at this stage. His world is about to fall apart. So far he has just had a bit on the side.

In case you haven't seen this stat. 97% of all these affair relationships fail before or at 5 years. The reason there are no stats for ten years is that they could either not find the people or the people did not want to talk. Read what you like in to that.


Try and take some time for you and the boys to do something nice. Something new you have wanted to do for a while. 


It can feel like you are at war. Even a few mins R&R is better than nothing


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## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> I'm in IC (wasted 3 sessions on MC...). I have considered it for the boys but what kind of things do they support with?


Reassuring them that they did not cause the problems that lead to the divorce, coping with the loss of their family, that sort of thing.


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## JohnA

I know it is a burden to buy and carry the house. But the house s your children's home. The older they grow the more settled they will become in the house. Custody may be 50/50 to start but as they age they will want to be "home" more with there friends and social circle. It also keeps you rooted and emotionally stable.


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## Marc878

Friends are loyal, trustworthy, honest. She's not your friend.

In order for you to move on and have a good life you'll need to purge her. Hard 180. Only email or texts kids, business only. Never answer a phone call direct. Delete anything not in you guideles. No response necessary.

If you can do this you'll be surprised at how quickly you can move on.

Having her in your life will just hold you back


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## turnera

Children nearly always blame themselves when parents split up. You have to remember that you and their mom are 90% of their whole world, and they're young, so they think in very basic language - food, house, parents, play, fun...it's all they know, so if something goes wrong, they don't have the skills to consider outside forces or actions caused it, so they'll fill that void with themselves.


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## Thor

inging said:


> After the Divorce you can do what you want. She has no hold on you and you hardly slandering her good name if you tell the truth.
> 
> You do not have to meet this guy. Men don't leave their wives for a Mistress. They ADD the mistress and replace her when she is too much trouble. She is about to become a whole lot of trouble especially when his wife finds out. i suspect the new "happy families" is entirely in her head or he just mouths the words. Don't even consider it at this stage. His world is about to fall apart. So far he has just had a bit on the side.
> 
> In case you haven't seen this stat. 97% of all these affair relationships fail before or at 5 years. The reason there are no stats for ten years is that they could either not find the people or the people did not want to talk. Read what you like in to that.


First, I am all for exposure to OM's W. 100%.

Having said that, I don't endorse vindictiveness just to be vindictive. If OM leaves his wife and wants to have a LTR with OP's stbxw, I see no reason to poison it. No reason to celebrate it either. But no reason to set out to destroy them just for the fun of it. Presumption being that OM's W is informed and they split.

My mom married her AP. They've been married 26 or 27 years now. It has been a very good marriage for them, much better than the first marriage each had. Yes this is a rarity. Most OM's are just looking for a little fun on the side with no intention of leaving their wife. This man was divorced when he met my mother, and she had an exit affair.

If in OP's situation it turns out this OM is just a dirtbag serial cheater who is just using OP's stbxw for some temporary tail, yeah blow his life out of the water. Turn him in to HR. Spread the word about him being a low life.


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## Lostinthought61

Melrose, i clearly understand when you say that it seems she found the grass greener, and you left holding the bag so to speak, but i would like to suggest something that you actually possess implicit power that if they truly thought about it could be to their determent. First at some time in the future you could potential impact their lives, certainly his by reporting this to HR. Second you have the power to inform the OM wife of all of the Shenanigans that has been going on, and together could also impact them their lives. Thirdly you have the power of exposure to your sons first and foremost (perhaps when they are older, but i promise you they actually get it) but to friends and family members...don't underestimate your power...and more importantly neither should they. 
Now statistically speaking their odds of staying together is less than 30%...considering the hate on both sides of the families....and the other issue is trust....when you start a relationship on deceit, how can you build any foundation


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## dubsey

1. Create new email address with zero information tying it to you in the name. Actually, make the username gibberish. 
2. Send OMW email from new address stating "I think your husband is sleeping with one of my co-workers named XXXX. I thought you should know"
3. Never give up how you know or that you're not an employee. Let her do the work.


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## sokillme

I know it's hard but try to think clearly about what we have here. You soon to be ex is a cheat. That means generally she doesn't have a high value when it comes to relationships, this is why cheats hide their nature, if they were honest about it there would be few takers. She is deceitful and clearly has poor boundaries. The dude she is with is the same. Right now emotionally you are seeing her through the rose colored glasses of love. When that goes away you will see her for what she is a bad choice. This will get clearer with separation. You were never going to have a happily ever after with someone like that. She isn't capable. Those two won't either, they may stay together but they both have to deal with the fact that they know what they are capable of. It's like having a tiger as a pet, looks nice, nice to pet, but it may kill you. 

You need to turn off your emotions and see her for what she is. Her value to a long term relationship isn't much. Her punishment is being the type of person she is, his too. 

Also when the divorce is finalized blow this s*it up. Who cares the reason, F them.


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## 2ntnuf

I wouldn't worry about their happily ever after. They weren't worried about yours.

They knew there were children involved. If they thought it was an issue, they'd have waited till their divorces were final.

Would they have stopped if you begged them? Nope. 

They would have brought it into the open and tormented you with their relationship. 

They would have tried to get you to give up the house and all you bought together so she could have more. 

They would have done all of this at the advice of her attorney. 

You would have been given no quarter. 

And, it would all have been legal.


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## Melrose8888

Thor said:


> Having said that, I don't endorse vindictiveness just to be vindictive. If OM leaves his wife and wants to have a LTR with OP's stbxw, I see no reason to poison it. No reason to celebrate it either. But no reason to set out to destroy them just for the fun of it. Presumption being that OM's W is informed and they split.


So, I think this is an important point. My gut (and texts I've seen) tells me that this will be a LTR, so what benefit will it be for me to blow it up, other than spite and revenge? Well, to stop a POS cheater bringing up my boys 50% of the time might be another good reason...
The OM W will be told in 6 weeks though.


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## Melrose8888

Xenote said:


> Melrose, i clearly understand when you say that it seems she found the grass greener, and you left holding the bag so to speak, but i would like to suggest something that you actually possess implicit power that if they truly thought about it could be to their determent. First at some time in the future you could potential impact their lives, certainly his by reporting this to HR. Second you have the power to inform the OM wife of all of the Shenanigans that has been going on, and together could also impact them their lives. Thirdly you have the power of exposure to your sons first and foremost (perhaps when they are older, but i promise you they actually get it) but to friends and family members...don't underestimate your power...and more importantly neither should they.
> Now statistically speaking their odds of staying together is less than 30%...considering the hate on both sides of the families....and the other issue is trust....when you start a relationship on deceit, how can you build any foundation


And I think this power has got me to a decent financial agreement in principle, shared custody and currently on track to finalise D less than 6 months after we first discussed unhappiness. Out of all of this, one piece of advice I do feel qualified to give to any others who have been wronged, is file for D immediately, get it done quickly because either way (D or R) it is the only way to save yourself and start healing.


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## TX-SC

I'll reiterate, don't rock the boat. Get your ducks in a row with your separation before doing something to piss her off. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Melrose8888

TX-SC said:


> I'll reiterate, don't rock the boat. Get your ducks in a row with your separation before doing something to piss her off.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Well, ducks are settling nicely, just did final handover of kids with her in the house, before the co-parenting plan kicks in, and as she left I asked for her keys back. A small but momentus moment for me; My boys and I have a safe home from which to heal.


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## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, ducks are settling nicely, just did final handover of kids with her in the house, before the co-parenting plan kicks in, and as she left I asked for her keys back. A small but momentus moment for me; My boys and I have a safe home from which to heal.



You do mate and this is a small but significant win, you will get more wins like this the more you heal, work on yourself and move on. The other wins you get won't be as obvious as this is but they'll be obvious to your ex no doubt about it. The whole "don't give a rats ass" will come eventually and that'll be the silver bullet.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, ducks are settling nicely, just did final handover of kids with her in the house, before the co-parenting plan kicks in, and as she left I *asked for her keys back*. A small but momentus moment for me; My boys and I have a safe home from which to heal.


Change the locks anyways. She has destroyed all trust. How do you know she didn't make a duplicate?


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## Melrose8888

Hopeful Cynic said:


> change the locks anyways. She has destroyed all trust. How do you know she didn't make a duplicate?


Good point, though I've changed the alarm code, so that in itself might be more amusing!


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## JohnA

Is the paper work signed yet? If so what are the non-financial details that are legally binding? For example exposure at work, to his wife etc? 

Do not allow your sons to meet OM without your sons knowing the truth. She will lie, correct the re-write. Was the marriage slowly dying - true. Truth part two: she had a choice try to fix marriage the marriage first then divorce or just cheat and get a "boyfriend". She chose to cheat. Truth part three: MOM not only had the same choice but he could have been a friend of the marriage he choose instead to help destroy it. He chose poorly. Your sons must know this. If you allow otherwise when the truth comes out they will wonder why you didn't tell them. They will view you as weak. They will also had been fooled into believing MOM is a great person and feel loyalty to him. 

As to her friend. If I was her husband or boyfriend and had a half a brain I would dump her. If she has not already screwed around she will. Of course if it is a boyfriend who is their for sex only it is all good.


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## Melrose8888

JohnA said:


> Is the paper work signed yet? If so what are the non-financial details that are legally binding? For example exposure at work, to his wife etc?
> 
> Do not allow your sons to meet OM without your sons knowing the truth. She will lie, correct the re-write. Was the marriage slowly dying - true. Truth part two: she had a choice try to fix marriage the marriage first then divorce or just cheat and get a "boyfriend". She chose to cheat. Truth part three: MOM not only had the same choice but he could have been a friend of the marriage he choose instead to help destroy it. He chose poorly. Your sons must know this. If you allow otherwise when the truth comes out they will wonder why you didn't tell them. They will view you as weak. They will also had been fooled into believing MOM is a great person and feel loyalty to him.
> 
> As to her friend. If I was her husband or boyfriend and had a half a brain I would dump her. If she has not already screwed around she will. Of course if it is a boyfriend who is their for sex only it is all good.


I'm not expecting the solicitors Consent Order to include the requests that the STBXW made, these were more of a list of things that she needed to say, as I'd been in full 180 and not communicated for ages. Likewise, I don't really think my request of not introducing the POSOM until at least after divorce, is legally binding but it will be signed. So those options are still available, especially if (when?) she introduces OM against my wishes.
(He is actually round her rental building the kids new bed as we speak...).

My 7yo boy knows part of the story but a huge thank you for laying out the facts. I oft forget about the OM part in this episode. I think I will draw both boys a picture of stickmen, to show 2 families and how things should happen if people are unhappy in relationships and another picture of what these POS did to us.

Her newer friends (moved to town 3 years ago) were always, IMHO, bad choices but clearly she has been in a this mind set a while, so needed them on side for what she was about to do. What is strange is her older friends backing her to the hilt and believing that there was no overlap, so she hasn't cheated?! I guess, in hindsight, these friends weren't particularly approving of me in the early days (15+ years ago) so it might make sense.


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## Satya

My personal favorite (I think this is at least partial credit to @Affaircare and possibly others, paraphrased):

Daddy learned that Mommy has a new boyfriend. Daddy doesn't believe in having boyfriends or girlfriends when you are married so Daddy and Mommy are going to live in separate houses and not be married anymore. You'll get to visit Daddy sometimes and Mommy sometimes. Remember that Daddy and Mommy love you very much. Even though we won't be married anymore, our love for you will stay the same.


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## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, to stop a POS cheater bringing up my boys 50% of the time might be another good reason...
> .


Yep. That is the reason. By his actions we know he is a dirt bag and you do not want him around your kids. It is possible without exposure to the OMW but when asked by someone why you are breaking up. Tell the truth. It is amazing what pressure that puts on them. Right now they are constructing a cosy reality. Do not allow that lie. 

Time and truth is what is needed. You know I would blow it up now with his wife. Regardless of money precisely for this reason. For him it is still all fantasy and has cost him nothing so far.

Your wife is reading things into his actions that may be more hopeful than anything. He just wants to get in her pants and he will say anything to do that. When his wife finds out one of two things are going to happen
1. He dumps your wife
This is possible but not probable at this stage. He believes his own BS.

2. He is kicked out for cheating or leaves his wife.
In this case he will have his life turned upside down - Just like you - and will cost him a fortune and pretty much everything he has worked for. He will lose 50% access to his kids. I wonder how the business finances work in his house..

There are more important things than money. You are on the spot but 6 weeks is a long time to wait and it allows them to become entrenched. Expose him anon via email if need be but destroy this fckers life now.


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## Melrose8888

inging said:


> Yep. That is the reason. By his actions we know he is a dirt bag and you do not want him around your kids. It is possible without exposure to the OMW but when asked by someone why you are breaking up. Tell the truth. It is amazing what pressure that puts on them. Right now they are constructing a cosy reality. Do not allow that lie.
> 
> Time and truth is what is needed. You know I would blow it up now with his wife. Regardless of money precisely for this reason. For him it is still all fantasy and has cost him nothing so far.
> 
> Your wife is reading things into his actions that may be more hopeful than anything. He just wants to get in her pants and he will say anything to do that. When his wife finds out one of two things are going to happen
> 1. He dumps your wife
> This is possible but not probable at this stage. He believes his own BS.
> 
> 2. He is kicked out for cheating or leaves his wife.
> In this case he will have his life turned upside down - Just like you - and will cost him a fortune and pretty much everything he has worked for. He will lose 50% access to his kids. I wonder how the business finances work in his house..
> 
> There are more important things than money. You are on the spot but 6 weeks is a long time to wait and it allows them to become entrenched. Expose him anon via email if need be but destroy this fckers life now.


Not a day goes by without me thinking about telling the OMW. It would be scenario 2 for sure and you know what, I don't think the OM or my STBXW give a damn. He'll still be driving around in his Discovery, buying shedloads of gifts for ex, for her new house, booking holidays....

It isn't all about money but I can barely afford to take on the house for the boys as it is. But the OMW deserves to know the truth and I don't want a POS bringing up my kids (just the thought of him helping set up their new room at the ex new house, fills me with tears and fears). A few more weeks and it can be done.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Not a day goes by without me thinking about telling the OMW. It would be scenario 2 for sure and you know what, I don't think the OM or my STBXW give a damn. He'll still be driving around in his Discovery, buying shedloads of gifts for ex, for her new house, booking holidays....
> 
> It isn't all about money but I can barely afford to take on the house for the boys as it is. But the OMW deserves to know the truth and I don't want a POS bringing up my kids (just the thought of him helping set up their new room at the ex new house, fills me with tears and fears). A few more weeks and it can be done.


The more you detach and go your own way the less this will matter. Ghost her except for issues with the kids. Get rid of anything in your home that was her, pics, mementos, etc.

You'll be surprised at how that will benefit you.


----------



## Evinrude58

My ex has a rich husband that's never had a job.
If it helps, I have gotten used to it. My kids don't dislike the guy, he spends money on them to buy their love, and they are old enough that his influence will be minimal. It's not like my ex's character and what she has done as an example could be topped by other bad examples.

I think it may be worse to have a poor guy be their "step dad".
I know, believe me I know, how you feel. But, you will get over this and be happy. It's just a matter of time and willingness to move forward instead of dwelling on the past.
Good luck.

I suspect your wife will be his ex not long down the road.


----------



## JohnA

Your adulterous wife and adulterous partner are basing this relationship with their work relationship. In that relationship he is the kindly unstinting supportive mentor, lifting her up to heights professionally that she could never achieve professionally. I wrote this based on a bullet point post by I believe Marduk's post on how ex's hook up again. As you read it image your every day relationship with your WW and ask how well reality will be different. Bottom line at work he is the man the leader, word and judgment unquestioned. Well personal relationship are based on partnership. Fantasy is great, reality rules. 

Work place E/A P/A

I have modified a post I read on how an EX can entered back into a spouses life. *A work place relationship cam and often is *a far more dangerous situation to a marriage. *It creates a strong bonding experience of working as a team, developing goals, implementing a plan of a plan of action, overcoming problems, and sharing a successful outcome. *These are common traits in a successful marriage. *

A perfect storm is about to happen.*

They talk about and basks in their shared success,
They eagerly look forward to new challenges working together and achieving the next high of success.*
They begin to discuss their children and how great they are,*
Their families
How you're an excellent parent, you respond how great they are as a parent,*
How lucky your spouses are to have such great spouses.*
How you' each of you is a wonderful suppose.*
How great their jobs are.*
But how the job keeps both of *you busy
How the *job keeps you away
How they sometimes feels a little lonely and disconnected
How they sometimes feels a little overburdened because the spouse is not pulling their weight.*
How they sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How they *feels that their spouses don't ALWAYS listen to them
How they *feels that there spouces *don't ALWAYS understand them.*
How they feel that sometimes their spouces are just "not there" for them.*
How, okay... Their spouse are not ALWAYS such a wonderful person.*
How they loved working together with each other,*
How they wish their spouses where as easy to work together like the *
**two of you.*
How they feel young again
How they find feel appreciated, something their spouses don't do.*
How they feel attractive again
How it's so nice to have someone who just LISTENS to them
How it's been so, so long since their spouses *made them feel that w
Then BOOM their eyes have now been opened
How they *now realizes what *truly they want and *how they natural give each other this.
How they *now realizes that there spouses could NEVER give them that
How insensitive their spruces *can be be some times
How they *can be a real jerks sometimes
How they wonders if they should say married*
How they *now realizes that they never really loved their spouse*
How they *now realizes that they want in a *marriage what they have at *
work with each other.
How they ever could have fallen for a jerk like their spouses*
How their spouses the biggest a++hole they have ever known
How their spouses are *standing in the way of her true happiness
How their spouses ruined their life
How they *made a big mistake marrying their *spouses
How it would be a bigger mistake letting not being with each *each other*
How now they see that the two of you are really meant to be together
How they desperately need *to get away from their *spouse*
How they definitely going to leave their spouse*
They are now comparing notes from *talking to divorce lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever with their children. *
How there is no real room in the children's life for the ex(s). *


----------



## JohnA

@Satya great start, could you work in how people need to have health boundaries to avoid this from happening. That it is up to each person to build and maintain. That when they don't people in there lives get unfairly hurt. 

Mel: over time you will be amazed how important it was to stay in the home. Keep it drama free, unlike your exWW home in the near future.


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> My ex has a rich husband that's never had a job.
> If it helps, I have gotten used to it. My kids don't dislike the guy, he spends money on them to buy their love, and they are old enough that his influence will be minimal. It's not like my ex's character and what she has done as an example could be topped by other bad examples.
> 
> I think it may be worse to have a poor guy be their "step dad".
> I know, believe me I know, how you feel. But, you will get over this and be happy. It's just a matter of time and willingness to move forward instead of dwelling on the past.
> Good luck.
> 
> I suspect your wife will be his ex not long down the road.


It's an interesting POV, I guess it is better to have a rich guy but not now, not only 2 months since they 'fell' for each other. Far too early.
Given the link in our lives, my boys, I find that so difficult to detach from the stbxw and her new life - I see POSOM driving round my (small) town...


----------



## Melrose8888

JohnA said:


> Your adulterous wife and adulterous partner are basing this relationship with their work relationship. In that relationship he is the...


This is a great read and is exactly how it played out but in any case, it's all too late, she fell for it hook, line and sinker. She's not the same person I met 17 years ago, our marriage was a sham and is over.
I just need to detach but am getting stuck in thinking of her and her bf, especially as I know they see each other every day in and out of work.


----------



## JohnA

Your marriage is dead period until the adultety ends. The first goal of a BS should be to end the adultety either though the WS ending relationship and 100% NC or divorce. You know what and how. Based on the the how you know it will blow up with your children caught in the middle unprepared. Have you read my link on exposure and drafted plains to expose to your sons?


----------



## TaDor

Melrose8888 said:


> But the OMW deserves to know the truth and I don't want a POS bringing up my kids (just the thought of him helping set up their new room at the ex new house, fills me with tears and fears). A few more weeks and it can be done.


How about getting MAD and DISGUSTED that the POS has anything to do with YOUR KIDS!

As I told my wayward back then. Our son will HATE you. There is no future. I'd get into it with her at first about the POSOM being anywhere near my son. Told her, that POSOM will never be welcomed as he would be PART of the reason that our child will have a broken home.

I read an article not too long ago from young and ADULT children from parents who cheated. They *ALL* hated the cheating parent. Even if they found out years later.
Finding out my dad cheated, almost 20 years since his death - made my view of him go rock bottom. F-him. Sure he's dead. Whatever.

Cheaters don't put their children priorities where they belong. There should be a simple law on that. Cheat, you lose primary rights to the child(ren).


----------



## ulyssesheart

Evinrude58 said:


> My ex has a rich husband that's never had a job.
> If it helps, I have gotten used to it. My kids don't dislike the guy, he spends money on them to buy their love, and they are old enough that his influence will be minimal. It's not like my ex's character and what she has done as an example could be topped by other bad examples.
> 
> I think it may be worse to have a poor guy be their "step dad".
> I know, believe me I know, how you feel. But, you will get over this and be happy. It's just a matter of time and willingness to move forward instead of dwelling on the past.
> Good luck.
> 
> *I suspect your wife will be his ex not long down the road.*


Amen. A prayer to Count Karma.

Hope is Eternal. I Hope this too. Hope lives in Canada.

Hope Hops over Heinous Hordes of Hoglike Humans.

Hope is Fulfilled when WW's Hope is Un-Fulfilled. 

May Her Dreams Come to Naught. May She Cum Not. Not Evermore.


----------



## Melrose8888

I'm thinking of sending a quick email to STBXW immediate family and friends, just to counter the re-write of the marriage history. Nothing too emotional, just the facts, the timeline and the fact she had an EA then PA before I had any idea AND that I had to uncover the affair. Sound fair enough?

One more thing, would a mod be able to move this to the Private Members Section, please? Thinking I need to be a little careful until the consent order is sealed... thanks.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Where is your divorce at?
What will it do to negotiations?
How close are you to her family?


There are many things to consider before worrying about the marital rewrite. If you have the info save it, wait until the order is signed and then be vindictive.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi philly, she has agreed to D petition and returned form, agreed finances and co-parenting but consent order won't be sealed for 6 weeks.
Not close to family at all.

It is food for thought on when the right time might be, I want to tell the truth to them (and the OMW but that is another action to ponder) to allow me to move on, detach and to stop thinking / worrying about what she has done / is doing. That is my motive, my healing.


----------



## inging

The other motive is the very real possibility that you will lose real access to your kids. She is NOT your friend. She has in her mind a new family where you simply cease to exist. Look up what happens to dads in divorce. 
Nuke it. Now


----------



## JohnA

Again you cannot allow your children to meet MOM without warning. Here is a summary a poster wrote on the bullets points to covered

Children at 4 years old know that lying, sneaking, cheating, is bad.
Children at 4 know what a BF and GF is an know the concept to love a person.
Children at 4 know that a mom and dad who are married should only be going out on dates with each other rather then as BF/GF.
There is no need to give facts other than this. There is no mention of sex or anything that is age inappropriate.
Children are not expected to do anything about stopping the affair.
Children will blame themselves for their family falling apart because they are not told the truth that their family is no more because the WS had an affair.
Children by knowing the truth will know not to place any blame on themselves for the marriage failing.

Both MOM and WW chose to break these rules and as a result their parents must divorce. 




This conversation would not have been necessary if the two of you had divorced several years ago. So construct the story around these points.


----------



## Melrose8888

JohnA said:


> Again you cannot allow your children to meet MOM without warning. Here is a summary a poster wrote on the bullets points to covered
> 
> Children at 4 years old know that lying, sneaking, cheating, is bad.
> Children at 4 know what a BF and GF is an know the concept to love a person.
> Children at 4 know that a mom and dad who are married should only be going out on dates with each other rather then as BF/GF.
> There is no need to give facts other than this. There is no mention of sex or anything that is age inappropriate.
> Children are not expected to do anything about stopping the affair.
> Children will blame themselves for their family falling apart because they are not told the truth that their family is no more because the WS had an affair.
> Children by knowing the truth will know not to place any blame on themselves for the marriage failing.
> 
> Both MOM and WW chose to break these rules and as a result their parents must divorce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This conversation would not have been necessary if the two of you had divorced several years ago. So construct the story around these points.


Thanks John, and this is the story they have been told. 

However, in lala land, the counter story from pos ex to the kids (I heard her say this) is that ,'the reason I moved out is I was unhappy and we will all be happier in new lives'. When I pushed on the OM, she said to them 'yes, ok, there is another man but he isn't the reason why I have a new house'.

It's the closest I've ever come to being violent...

Still, I have the texts, I have the evidence and I have this thread to show them when they are older. They can decide who to believe then.


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## Lostinthought61

And you should remind her that you have all of the evidence and tell her the boys will be shown all of it...so stop lying.


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## Danny4133

It's the long game Melrose, all the proof, may be useful to combine any texts and emails if you have too. Note how she'd acted and tested you and them. Document document document. Keep it for your kids, get on with being the better parent and the beacon of light in the cesspool or darkness pos ex has brought upon you all. 

The truth can not be rewritten with all the proof to align with the real story. 

My L suggested to me if I swap the D points and exclude her cheating she may be more aimiable. I baulked at that and said no chance, it remains accurate to the events, I don't care. It will stay so as my kids will see all this one day.


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## manfromlamancha

Melrose, i thought I would step in and add my tuppence worth.

First of all, for Chrissake, he drives a Discovery! Some big man he is! I thought you might have said Jag, or even a Merc CLS - but a Discovery ?!?!?!? Add to that IT Director ? I know what they earn so he cannot be that comfortably off. Not a CIO right ?

Now as to whether this is a LTR or not depends on you. She only sees him as "good" because of his earnings right ? From what you have said he aint much to look at. When (not if) you inform HR (as soon as everything is watertight), they both will get fired. See how fast this goes down hill then. As soon as stress steps in I guarantee you things will not look so rosy anymore. So you need to blow up this [email protected]@rd's life (and hers too).

I am glad you have decided to tell the OMW. She could be giving him a softer deal in her negotiations not knowing what is really going on. Once you tell her about your stbxw and the POS, she will go scorched earth on his a$$ ! I was beginning to think of you as a lesser man when you were thinking of "not getting involved" and telling her. Do it as soon as you can.

And I disagree with what the general thinking is - you need to let your boys know what the hell is going on now! They need to understand that he is a [email protected] POS and that your wife was behaving very very badly. And that they should know how your family was destroyed. You can do this in as much of an age appropriate manner as you wish, but it needs to be done.

Finally, expose far and wide - publish any evidence that you have so that it is irrefutable. Do this, again, once the agreement is watertight and you have received your one off child support payment.

Time to reclaim your life and balls.


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## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Melrose, i thought I would step in and add my tuppence worth.
> 
> First of all, for Chrissake, he drives a Discovery! Some big man he is! I thought you might have said Jag, or even a Merc CLS - but a Discovery ?!?!?!? Add to that IT Director ? I know what they earn so he cannot be that comfortably off. Not a CIO right ?
> 
> Now as to whether this is a LTR or not depends on you. She only sees him as "good" because of his earnings right ? From what you have said he aint much to look at. When (not if) you inform HR (as soon as everything is watertight), they both will get fired. See how fast this goes down hill then. As soon as stress steps in I guarantee you things will not look so rosy anymore. So you need to blow up this [email protected]@rd's life (and hers too).
> 
> I am glad you have decided to tell the OMW. She could be giving him a softer deal in her negotiations not knowing what is really going on. Once you tell her about your stbxw and the POS, she will go scorched earth on his a$$ ! I was beginning to think of you as a lesser man when you were thinking of "not getting involved" and telling her. Do it as soon as you can.
> 
> And I disagree with what the general thinking is - you need to let your boys know what the hell is going on now! They need to understand that he is a [email protected] POS and that your wife was behaving very very badly. And that they should know how your family was destroyed. You can do this in as much of an age appropriate manner as you wish, but it needs to be done.
> 
> Finally, expose far and wide - publish any evidence that you have so that it is irrefutable. Do this, again, once the agreement is watertight and you have received your one off child support payment.
> 
> Time to reclaim your life and balls.


Some direct words there lamancha, just as well I'm having a 'good' day... 

A brand new Discovery with personalised number plate is seen a pretty good deal in the UK (and in any case, it is 4 times better than my car - ha!).
No, he is seen as good because he's played this like a pro, told her everything she needs to hear - he is her 'soul mate' she feels like she's 'known him all my life' but yeah, the £££ for the hotels, nights out, things for the new house, the new underwear, it all helps I guess...

Older boy does know, younger will in years to come.

I agree, OMW does deserve a fair divorce, so that is 85% of the reason why I am telling her. 15% is spite and me hoping for a popcorn moment.

I have no desire to blow it right up, she needs £ to bring up the boys well, so if when I tell the OMW, that means POSW work finds out, then so be it.

The truth will out with appropriate proof and context but it will be done with dignity. I will hold my head higher and rise so much higher. With my balls fully in tact. Balls deep.


----------



## Thor

Ok, my perspective is not one with small children in the picture. My folks divorced when I was in my late 20's, and I've divorced with my kids all 20+. Admittedly I did decide a long time ago that divorce was not an option specifically because I did not want another man raising my kids.

The kids should not be polarized. They deserve to have a good relationship with both of their parents. Including their immoral cheating mother. Her actions do harm the kids. She was disloyal to them in addition to being disloyal to her husband. However, that does not mean the kids should be taught to hate her. I would tread carefully in discussing this with children. They need to know the truth, most especially if she is lying to them. Best case really would be to tell the kids as little as possible, along the lines of mom and dad no longer want to stay together, and it is in no way because of the children. Both parents want the kids to have as good and loving a relationship as possible with both parents. It probably makes sense to explain that mom wants to live with or have as a bf this other man. The kids should know enough that they don't hold dad responsible - if there are going to be bad feelings toward a parent it should be towards the guilty party. But, bad feelings towards a parent can cause long term problems for a child, so best case is to foster a neutral feeling about the divorce.


----------



## ulyssesheart

Thor said:


> Ok, my perspective is not one with small children in the picture. My folks divorced when I was in my late 20's, and I've divorced with my kids all 20+. Admittedly I did decide a long time ago that divorce was not an option specifically because I did not want another man raising my kids.
> 
> The kids should not be polarized. They deserve to have a good relationship with both of their parents. Including their immoral cheating mother. Her actions do harm the kids. She was disloyal to them in addition to being disloyal to her husband. However, that does not mean the kids should be taught to hate her. I would tread carefully in discussing this with children. They need to know the truth, most especially if she is lying to them. Best case really would be to tell the kids as little as possible, along the lines of mom and dad no longer want to stay together, and it is in no way because of the children. Both parents want the kids to have as good and loving a relationship as possible with both parents. It probably makes sense to explain that mom wants to live with or have as a bf this other man. The kids should know enough that they don't hold dad responsible - if there are going to be bad feelings toward a parent it should be towards the guilty party. But, bad feelings towards a parent can cause long term problems for a child, so best case is to foster a neutral feeling about the divorce.


A kind post from a kind man.

I respectfully disagree.

Earlier and loyal kindness from Melrose did not, in the end, prevent this tragedy. He needs to bring Justice into the settlement. Exposure and honesty. Let the children see the evidence. She deserves what she deserves. No mitigating here.


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## Lostinthought61

Melrose, just a thought....I know your going to tell the OMW, after the six week, but you might just send her an anonymous email or note a head of time to tell her not to settle so quickly that you have info that will help her but you need to wait however long. This way she does not get into trap where she has no recourse.


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## thenub

Are you 100% certain om is going through a divorce? Ww's lie!
Obs may be blindsided by the info. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Melrose8888

Xenote said:


> Melrose, just a thought....I know your going to tell the OMW, after the six week, but you might just send her an anonymous email or note a head of time to tell her not to settle so quickly that you have info that will help her but you need to wait however long. This way she does not get into trap where she has no recourse.


From what I can tell (if you can believe the texts the Posom sends my stbxw) they are separating for divorce. So in the UK, that means 2 years before any paperwork.

Now, once I have my deal stamped, exposure will allow her to file for unreasonable behaviour if she so wishes and although infidelity / adultery don't make any difference to the settlement, she will be in a better place, IMHO.


----------



## Melrose8888

thenub said:


> Are you 100% certain om is going through a divorce? Ww's lie!
> Obs may be blindsided by the info.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Last texts I saw, 2 weeks ago, seemed to point to a very real separation, with OBS worried about finances, their kids, not happy at him spending money on renting etc.

But who knows, then again, not my circus, not my monkeys...


----------



## *Deidre*

What makes you think that the OBS doesn't know? She might, and she might just be choosing to stay. Not every betrayed spouse leaves, and what would be interesting, is if they don't get divorced, and your wife always stays his secret. And then, she'll come back to you...crying and apologizing...but you'll have moved on.

If I was a fortune teller, this would be my prediction.  (seriously, I think this likely will happen, considering that he hasn't filed for divorce)

Stay strong, hope things get better.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I was concerned that this guy is a [email protected] and not good for your boys to be around. Your "wife" seems to be acting very recklessly around them and it would be wise to help them protect themselves (not to do with getting them to hate their mother but to be careful around who she brings home - trust me this is a very real danger).

When you say the older boy knows, what does he know ?

The OBS needs to know - we both agree on it. If she needs advice on how to dismantle his "player" infrastructure (access to funds, private number plates and free spending on gifts and hotels) she should be given this advice. She can tie him up so that he has to account for every penny - especially since he not only has a wife but kids as well (whether they are divorcing or not). So knowing about his affair is one thing, but knowing about what he is spending and doing right now (e.g. hotel or rental room includes your "wife") will be more useful to her at this stage. They will put a freeze on his spending and therefore end his "big spender" status/image.

Getting them both fired will then obliterate it. I work in the IT industry and if it gets out as to why he was let go, nobody will touch him with a barge pole.

With her kids knowing what she did, her "Lothario" in tatters and ruins, you will soon have your popcorn moment.


----------



## Livvie

manfromlamancha said:


> I was concerned that this guy is a [email protected] and not good for your boys to be around. Your "wife" seems to be acting very recklessly around them and it would be wise to help them protect themselves (not to do with getting them to hate their mother but to be careful around who she brings home - trust me this is a very real danger).
> 
> When you say the older boy knows, what does he know ?
> 
> The OBS needs to know - we both agree on it. If she needs advice on how to dismantle his "player" infrastructure (access to funds, private number plates and free spending on gifts and hotels) she should be given this advice. She can tie him up so that he has to account for every penny - especially since he not only has a wife but kids as well (whether they are divorcing or not). So knowing about his affair is one thing, but knowing about what he is spending and doing right now (e.g. hotel or rental room includes your "wife") will be more useful to her at this stage. They will put a freeze on his spending and therefore end his "big spender" status/image.
> 
> Getting them both fired will then obliterate it. I work in the IT industry and if it gets out as to why he was let go, nobody will touch him with a barge pole.
> 
> With her kids knowing what she did, her "Lothario" in tatters and ruins, you will soon have your popcorn moment.


If the OBS and her children are in any way dependant upon the husband's salary, she isn't going to want to get him fired and then subsequently be unhireable.

If OP's ex loses her job even after the divorce is final, she can go back and ask that support be recalculated. A job loss is a huge change in circumstances.


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## Melrose8888

*Deidre* said:


> What makes you think that the OBS doesn't know? She might, and she might just be choosing to stay. Not every betrayed spouse leaves, and what would be interesting, is if they don't get divorced, and your wife always stays his secret. And then, she'll come back to you...crying and apologizing...but you'll have moved on.
> 
> If I was a fortune teller, this would be my prediction.  (seriously, I think this likely will happen, considering that he hasn't filed for divorce)
> 
> Stay strong, hope things get better.


Very true! I expect OM & OBS will be separated for 2 years, then D. After all, if my ex is willing to give up her marriage and family, for a married man with kids, who is her boss and move in with him, I don't think waiting 2 years for it be 'official' is going to change her current perspective.
But I am prepared for the day she does show some remorse be it 6 weeks, 6 months, 6 years...

Thanks for your support - going on a 'date' (with clear view to make new friends) next week, which has done my self-esteem the power of good! Just chatting to a friendly, attractive women via whatsapp, has taken my mind away from the 'all women are evil' mind set (don't worry - I know they aren't! ) but it helped hugely.


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> When you say the older boy knows, what does he know ?


I gave him the reassurance this wasn't because of him, I love him, will always be his only Dad but that Mummy wanted a bf while she was married and that Daddy doesn't think that is right, so I am D and we will live apart. Still be one family but sometimes you will stay with me, other times Mummy.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Livvie said:


> If the OBS and her children are in any way dependant upon the husband's salary, she isn't going to want to get him fired and then subsequently be unhireable.
> 
> If OP's ex loses her job even after the divorce is final, she can go back and ask that support be recalculated. A job loss is a huge change in circumstances.


His wife works in IT and will find a new job fairly quickly unless she is over 50 and even then not so bad as other jobs. What she won't have is a sugar daddy boss pandering to her every request. She can go back and ask for the figure to be recalculated but once the judge sees what industry she is in, if she doesn't have a job at the time, the judge will ask why not (I have seen this happen).

As for the POS, its not his wife that will get him fired, it should be Melrose (OP) himself. Again, he will probably get a more junior position (IT Manager) somewhere - enough to support his family but not to galavant around screwing his female staff.


----------



## inging

manfromlamancha said:


> Melrose, i thought I would step in and add my tuppence worth.
> 
> First of all, for Chrissake, he drives a Discovery! Some big man he is! I thought you might have said Jag, or even a Merc CLS - but a Discovery ?!?!?!?


*Top Gear*
Jeremy: We know Saabs are driven by architects, yes? We know Audis are driven by people who play golf. We know Land Rover Discoveries are driven by murderers.
James: Ah, now...
Jeremy: What?
James: I'm going to have to pull you up on that, as I think you'll find murderers drive a Renault Espace.
Jeremy: Well, Kenneth Noye was a murderer, he had a Land Rover Discovery.


----------



## inging

inging said:


> *Top Gear*
> Jeremy: We know Saabs are driven by architects, yes? We know Audis are driven by people who play golf. We know Land Rover Discoveries are driven by murderers.
> James: Ah, now...
> Jeremy: What?
> James: I'm going to have to pull you up on that, as I think you'll find murderers drive a Renault Espace.
> Jeremy: Well, Kenneth Noye was a murderer, he had a Land Rover Discovery.


I drive a Discovery :surprise:


----------



## Affaircare

:lol:


----------



## *Deidre*

Melrose8888 said:


> Very true! I expect OM & OBS will be separated for 2 years, then D. After all, if my ex is willing to give up her marriage and family, for a married man with kids, who is her boss and move in with him, I don't think waiting 2 years for it be 'official' is going to change her current perspective.
> But I am prepared for the day she does show some remorse be it 6 weeks, 6 months, 6 years...
> 
> Thanks for your support - going on a 'date' (with clear view to make new friends) next week, which has done my self-esteem the power of good! Just chatting to a friendly, attractive women via whatsapp, has taken my mind away from the 'all women are evil' mind set (don't worry - I know they aren't! ) but it helped hugely.


Often times, what happens with two cheaters who leave their partners for others, is that they realize that who they're with...is a cheater. lol Not like they ended up with ''good people,'' so right now they're on a cloud, but when things go back to normal, and they are living the day to day...they won't trust each other, they will wonder if the other is cheating on them. Nothing good comes from developing a relationship with someone that you had to sneak around with to even have the relationship to begin with. :scratchhead:


----------



## Melrose8888

Well here is an interesting development (which I called earlier on...).

I ended up calling stbxw Mum, who, through the tears, managed to tell me she knew it wasn't my fault at all it's all her daughter's and what a great man I am. Pah.

She mentioned 'a work friend' helping ex through this. I told her she is intelligent enough to know what that means. She sighed and agreed. (Interestingly enough, the Mum had an overlap at end of her marriage, albeit her husband was a compulsive gambler who spent all the savings, so I will give her some slack. Still, history repeating and all that).

Then, without prompting, she told me not to worry as that 'friend' is getting a new job, to avoid any issues.

I called it, OM is obsessed, he leaving his top job for her!

I guess this actually a good thing, I felt worried for my son's stability if the ex lost her job on top of everything else that is going on.

Final thing I called earlier, they will buy a house together in a little village near me in 6 months time. Wait and see.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Then, without prompting, she told me not to worry as that 'friend' is getting a new job, to avoid any issues.
> 
> I called it, OM is obsessed, he leaving his top job for her!
> 
> I guess this actually a good thing, I felt worried for my son's stability if the ex lost her job on top of everything else that is going on.
> 
> Final thing I called earlier, they will buy a house together in a little village near me in 6 months time. Wait and see.


I haven't seen this posted in a while. The whole series is applicable..

https://soulmateshmoopies.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/part-1/


----------



## TaDor

As *Deidre* says... relationships from affairs RARELY ever lasts. 

The "success rate" like 10+ years of marriage is less than 1%. Off the top of my head, out of 3000 male cheaters, about 1% of them married their affair partner and IF you throw on that the divorce rate is about 50% on the first marriage and about 60+% on the 2nd AND throw on cheaters... its horribly low.

So Melrose, maybe around that time - when your wife wakes up from her fog... maybe she'll have remorse, but mostly regret. But if that is 6+ months from now or more and you got yourself a hottie that is faithful to you and your children... your wife will regret even more of her idiotic choices.


----------



## TaDor

Oh... its nice that her mother is giving you a thumbs up and all. But keep her at arms length. Be nice, welcome any kind of info she has. But don't offer anything in return. At most, disinformation or little info that can be meaningless. Even if her mom is NOT your enemy, she can feed her mom BS to get intel from you.

Played that game...

I know one thing is for certain is if my son grows up and was to do that to another person - I would spank his butt and give him hell, even if I am 70 years old.


----------



## Melrose8888

TaDor said:


> Oh... its nice that her mother is giving you a thumbs up and all. But keep her at arms length. Be nice, welcome any kind of info she has. But don't offer anything in return. At most, disinformation or little info that can be meaningless. Even if her mom is NOT your enemy, she can feed her mom BS to get intel from you.
> 
> Played that game...
> 
> I know one thing is for certain is if my son grows up and was to do that to another person - I would spank his butt and give him hell, even if I am 70 years old.


Good advice. I'm a little stuck with the need to correct the re-write of the marriage and to tell people that my ex did cheat on me. But slowly, with support of TAM and friends, I'm not sure that it is the correct time to do so. Need to get the D finalised and then see how I feel. In most cases, I don't even want to be 'friends' with the people who the stbxw has told lies to. The people who are important to me, are the one's who know the truth. In this case, her Mum was borderline, so I did tell her and her reaction was positive (for my healing, anyway).

Tough day today, with thoughts of should have given R a 'better shot', which is odd, as I've had a great few days where the future without her seems really bright... :scratchhead:


----------



## Blondilocks

Sorry to be a wet blanket. Since you are already starting to date, thought it would be prudent to mention that you need to discuss with your IC the need for improved interpersonal skills with a partner. Threatening to leave and calling a partner names is not conducive to a good relationship. Both behaviors are emotionally abusive. Women will not emotionally invest in nor want to have sex with a man who employs these tactics. 

Hope your divorce goes smoothly and your sons are affected as little as possible.


----------



## Melrose8888

Blondilocks said:


> Sorry to be a wet blanket. Since you are already starting to date, thought it would be prudent to mention that you need to discuss with your IC the need for improved interpersonal skills with a partner. Threatening to leave and calling a partner names is not conducive to a good relationship. Both behaviors are emotionally abusive. Women will not emotionally invest in nor want to have sex with a man who employs these tactics.
> 
> Hope your divorce goes smoothly and your sons are affected as little as possible.


Thanks for the reality check, Blondilocks. In fact, in the 2nd MC session (before D-Day) I faced up to my shortcomings in the marriage and even used the phase 'emotional abuse' when admitting to what I had done and gave these as examples. The ex just shrugged them off because, well, because she already her AP...

So am I fully aware of my contribution in the breakdown but you know what makes me realise this is for the best? I knew exactly what I needed to do to make the marriage better (including stopping these empty threats / poor negotiation methods) but I didn't do it because the ex wouldn't have even been willing to meet me half way.


----------



## TaDor

Get the D done, then expose. Something like a celebration FB post if you want (that *IS* what I did) which makes it stick to top of your wall for a while.

"Yeah! I am finally done with the divorce with my cheating wife and her scumbag AP Bob that she work with"
"In case she told you otherwise, she was having sex with BOB starting in XYZ 2015, I caught her in ZYX 2016 and she rather the marriage fail. I'm moving on but I wanted to set the record straight. Look here, I'll post a screenshot of their text".

Whatever works... you got time to work on it.


----------



## Melrose8888

Applied for the Decree Nisi today! Only 6 weeks after D-day!

Sometimes I think this is moving too fast but whatever will be, will be and as I maintain, whatever the final LT outcome of this, I think I'd always recommended a fast D process, as it provides something tangible to support recovery from infidelity.


----------



## Melrose8888

Something is troubling me today and I'm not sure if is healthy or that important in the grand scheme of things.

Given how stoic I have been and having lived the 180 since D-day, in my limited dealing with the ex around D, finances and kids, she seems to think everything is fine and that everyone is happier.

She really doesn't see the pain and hurt I am going through and certainly doesn't appear to think / care that her infidelity has caused any problems to anyone. Not sure how choosing another man over seeing her kids every day isn't a problem...??

So given I am close to D and the settlements that I need to move on, is it now worth highlighting to her the real impact this has caused everyone (me, the boys, friends, family, strangers!!)? Or is it just something I have to put up with?


----------



## Marc878

At this time she doesn't care or see anything other than the affair. It trumps all. For closure after you get the documents signed expose.


----------



## Danny4133

IMHO No

You know the long term prospects, she knows but refuses to see the damage (LaLa land causes blinkers)
You professing the damage shows she means something to you, acting like you're better off (fake it till you make it) and not giving two sh((ts is the best approach, as is the long run you will be better off mate, you know what, you won't give two either!!!.

She does see the pain, her fog, lies and delusion cause her to ignore it, you verbally explain anything will only fuel her ego. 
Showing her departure has zero impact and in fact Melrose gets to crack on in life and fire up the afterburners is actually the best revenge of all. Who's life has the better future ----- Yours mate, tell yourself that every day!!

That long game is so important to keep focus on, building a better life, showcasing yourself to your kids on what a person with honour and integrity does. 

I feed, function, breathe knowing that when I look my POS EX in the eye she KNOWS I'm the better person. She Knows the kids will know what she did and understand it better when their older. She has to exhaust herself with the validation and self delusion to get past that. I keep the good relationship and hold my head up high in public, you should do to my friend!!!

You may not see it now but trust me you get the golden goose here.


----------



## Affaircare

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Something is troubling me today and I'm not sure if is healthy or that important in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> Given how stoic I have been and having lived the 180 since D-day, in my limited dealing with the ex around D, finances and kids, she seems to think everything is fine and that everyone is happier.
> 
> She really doesn't see the pain and hurt I am going through and certainly doesn't appear to think / care that her infidelity has caused any problems to anyone. Not sure how choosing another man over seeing her kids every day isn't a problem...??
> 
> So given I am close to D and the settlements that I need to move on, is it now worth highlighting to her the real impact this has caused everyone (me, the boys, friends, family, strangers!!)? Or is it just something I have to put up with?


 @Melrose8888

She might see it, but she may just not care that you are in pain and hurting.

Or she dare not acknowledge the pain you are in or your suffering, or the distress she is causing the children, as that would mean she would have to admit to herself that she had done wrong and had hurt you and them.

That would be a bullet through the heart of her unicorn...


----------



## Melrose8888

MattMatt said:


> She might see it, but she may just not care that you are in pain and hurting.


Ouch. That last shot hurt. But her indifference is killing me.


----------



## Danny4133

She does see it mate, 
Melroses best oneupmanship is to give her a front row seat to how he rebuilds and puts his life back together. 

Melrose mate, it's your choice, you either be bitter or better, sadder or stronger.
We've got those kids pal, my role model was my grandad, the strongest guy I ever knew, this happened to him. He flourished because of it, lived his life to the max, his 7 kids loved his bones. WFW was a split decision, arguments rained at his funeral when her family showed up after 30 years. His kids wouldn't allow it . But he was number 1 to all his kids. 

I prefer to take his route, you like me are young enough to bounce back mate, I feel by your posts you're still emotionally invested in her somewhat. That's ok, that's the good in you, but you will get to that point. By that point I mean before you met her, when you'd have seen her in the club, the street and walked on by if you'd have known the stuff she's capable of pulling off.


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> She does see it mate,
> Melroses best oneupmanship is to give her a front row seat to how he rebuilds and puts his life back together.
> 
> Melrose mate, it's your choice, you either be bitter or better, sadder or stronger.
> We've got those kids pal


I want to rebuild my life, it's the connection to the kids that make this so very difficult.

How can you truly detach when 50% of your time is spent raising the kids to be better than she is and the other 50% of the time wishing you were with the kids?

I love them unconditionally, of course, but sometimes wish I hadn't had the boys but instead, met somebody who shared my life map. Somebody who was able to resist temptation and raise a family together. As one.


----------



## 2ntnuf

M8, in spite of all the issues you are concerned about, you are doing very well. I even noticed how you considered not telling the OBS. That shows real progress. I'm not discouraging you or encouraging you to expose. It's up to you. I'm just really glad to see you thinking about others instead of dwelling on the mess. 

Keep up the good work.


----------



## Melrose8888

Quick update, I've got my boys this week and it's amazing to be around them. They really lift my spirits and are a joy in this sh1t sandwich.

Also had some small thoughts of indifference towards the STBXW which were unexpected but v welcome.

I got the paperwork through from the mediation solicitor. Only issue is, the memorandum of understanding doesn't mention my concern about the AP meeting and rasing my boys before they settle into the new routine. (Plus any married father (and boss) who happily gets involved with another married mother is a long way from decent enough to be near the kids he's directly impacted!).

The financial part is correct and will made into a legally binding consent order but is this my only chance to stop the POSOM being around my kids until after divorce (at least)? I guess the consent order is only finance related? (though I will ask my other solicitor).

Anyone been through mediation / similar? Thanks.


----------



## Marc878

Unfortunately there is no good way to stop your stbxw from introducing your kids to other man. You'd be wise to spend your time and effort into being the best father you can be. Kids aren't stupid. They'll figure it all out long term. Don't lie to them about how/what happened but do it in an age appropriate way when the time comes. 

You have zero control over her but you would be smart to have very tight boundaries around yourself such as extremely limited contact with your wayward wife. Never answer a phone call directly from her. Let it go to voice mail. If it's not about the kids = no response. Same thing with texts or emails. Don't worry about hurting her feelings. She didn't mind hurting you did she? If you can't do this you'll just linger in this mess. Rise above that and go your own way. Avoid any type of interaction with her. If you can't it'll just ruin your chances of a better life and future relationships. 

Unfortunately that's how these things work. You'll never develope with her in the mix.


----------



## MJJEAN

Melrose8888 said:


> Quick update, I've got my boys this week and it's amazing to be around them. They really lift my spirits and are a joy in this sh1t sandwich.
> 
> Also had some small thoughts of indifference towards the STBXW which were unexpected but v welcome.
> 
> I got the paperwork through from the mediation solicitor. Only issue is, the memorandum of understanding doesn't mention my concern about the AP meeting and rasing my boys before they settle into the new routine. (Plus any married father (and boss) who happily gets involved with another married mother is a long way from decent enough to be near the kids he's directly impacted!).
> 
> The financial part is correct and will made into a legally binding consent order but is this my only chance to stop the POSOM being around my kids until after divorce (at least)? I guess the consent order is only finance related? (though I will ask my other solicitor).
> 
> Anyone been through mediation / similar? Thanks.


Realistically, you may not be able to legally keep her from introducing the kids to her AP/BF unless she either agrees to delay for a time or he has something on his record that would give the court reason to believe he is a danger to the kids.

I don't remember where you are from, but here it is relatively common to ask for 2 things. 

1) No unrelated adults of opposite sex can stay the night in the home while the kids are in residence, which is basically a "morals clause". This would usually apply to you both. 

2) First refusal. This means that, should either of you need a babysitter during your parenting time, the other parent gets first crack at the extra time with the kids before anyone else is asked to mind them.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Something is troubling me today and I'm not sure if is healthy or that important in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> Given how stoic I have been and having lived the 180 since D-day, in my limited dealing with the ex around D, finances and kids, she seems to think everything is fine and that everyone is happier.
> 
> She really doesn't see the pain and hurt I am going through and certainly doesn't appear to think / care that her infidelity has caused any problems to anyone. Not sure how choosing another man over seeing her kids every day isn't a problem...??


It has taken a very long time for my ExW to accept that it was her actions that led to the position she is in now. Everyone is pushing you to take advantage of the lala land stage and get out before it wears off. This can be anywhere between now and never. You simply can not expect it to happen. It so often does not.
It will not be lost on your kids that she chose another man over them and it will ruin her relationship with them in the long term. In the medium term expect the following:


Accusing you of poisoning there minds against her
Interfering in her new relationship 
Bad mouthing her to her friends
Ruining her life
failing to provide friendship rights

Let time do its work after exposure. It is almost fun to watch them try to control the message once it is out. Let go of trying to work her out. You can't .

You must let go of the hope of things getting better. Hope is a very human emotion and one that holds us back sometimes.
Just stay in the day to day without worrying too much about the long term. i guarantee that your life will improve and joy and laughter will return in the most unexpected ways. Hope will too.


----------



## Melrose8888

Marc878 said:


> Unfortunately there is no good way to stop your stbxw from introducing your kids to other man. You'd be wise to spend your time and effort into being the best father you can be. Kids aren't stupid. They'll figure it all out long term. Don't lie to them about how/what happened but do it in an age appropriate way when the time comes.
> 
> You have zero control over her but you would be smart to have very tight boundaries around yourself such as extremely limited contact with your wayward wife. Never answer a phone call directly from her. Let it go to voice mail. If it's not about the kids = no response. Same thing with texts or emails. Don't worry about hurting her feelings. She didn't mind hurting you did she? If you can't do this you'll just linger in this mess. Rise above that and go your own way. Avoid any type of interaction with her. If you can't it'll just ruin your chances of a better life and future relationships.
> 
> Unfortunately that's how these things work. You'll never develope with her in the mix.


I agree, they will work it out but at what cost in the meantime? They are young, impressionable and sociable, so will take to him quickly, no matter what he is like (plus his deep pockets will support).

That advice is exactly how I am currently playing it with ex, it's good for my future but it lets her walk away thinking everyone is happier and better off. It's difficult to watch, even from a detached distance.


----------



## Melrose8888

MJJEAN said:


> Realistically, you may not be able to legally keep her from introducing the kids to her AP/BF unless she either agrees to delay for a time or he has something on his record that would give the court reason to believe he is a danger to the kids.
> 
> I don't remember where you are from, but here it is relatively common to ask for 2 things.
> 
> 1) No unrelated adults of opposite sex can stay the night in the home while the kids are in residence, which is basically a "morals clause". This would usually apply to you both.
> 
> 2) First refusal. This means that, should either of you need a babysitter during your parenting time, the other parent gets first crack at the extra time with the kids before anyone else is asked to mind them.


I'm in England, so law and time is not in my side.

I think the first request will get a short response. "He's got so much to offer them" quote will no doubt reappear.

I will make the second official though, it was discussed but nothing wrong with it being formal.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> It has taken a very long time for my ExW to accept that it was her actions that led to the position she is in now. Everyone is pushing you to take advantage of the lala land stage and get out before it wears off. This can be anywhere between now and never. You simply can not expect it to happen. It so often does not.
> It will not be lost on your kids that she chose another man over them and it will ruin her relationship with them in the long term. In the medium term expect the following:
> 
> 
> Accusing you of poisoning there minds against her
> Interfering in her new relationship
> Bad mouthing her to her friends
> Ruining her life
> failing to provide friendship rights
> 
> Let time do its work after exposure. It is almost fun to watch them try to control the message once it is out. Let go of trying to work her out. You can't .
> 
> You must let go of the hope of things getting better. Hope is a very human emotion and one that holds us back sometimes.
> Just stay in the day to day without worrying too much about the long term. i guarantee that your life will improve and joy and laughter will return in the most unexpected ways. Hope will too.


I'm working on it as fast as I can!

Fortunately I've limited comms to just kids and D but I do hear and sense the odd disbelief that we can't all be friends...!

It's good advice, I am trying to focus on my long term goals, for exactly hope, but I can see benefit in taking it day by day too.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> I agree, they will work it out but at what cost in the meantime? They are young, impressionable and sociable, so will take to him quickly, no matter what he is like (plus his deep pockets will support).
> 
> That advice is exactly how I am currently playing it with ex, it's good for my future but it lets her walk away thinking everyone is happier and better off. It's difficult to watch, even from a detached distance.


She'll be wanting to be friends as if nothing happened. Cut her out of your existence. Right now she isn't seeing anything except the affair. After the paper work is in place go full exposure all at once with no warning. Keep up a hard 180. 

Nothing Is fair about this. Exposure brings reality to the affair. Most die quickly after.


----------



## manfromlamancha

When the "but he has so much to offer the kids" comes up - you can counter with "yeah, like how to lie and cheat (ask his wife and me, her husband) - I don't want my kids looking at him as any kind of role model".


Actually you will find that English Law can be fairly understanding of different circumstances and not wanting your impressionable (yes, use that term instead of social etc) kids around an adulterer, liar and a cheat will not be looked upon unreasonably.


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> When the "but he has so much to offer the kids" comes up - you can counter with "yeah, like how to lie and cheat (ask his wife and me, her husband) - I don't want my kids looking at him as any kind of role model".
> .


Wish I had said this during mediation when it came up! Probably best i kept quiet on that occasion though.


----------



## JohnA

Your wife seems to be trying to replace her children's father! No ! 

Since the divorce is final(?) you need to stress to her she is not your friend, the two of you are allies not friends! There is a huge difference. 

Hold firm on the no to attending the wedding. 

She can prevent the children from going to a particular IC, but not you to go the same one's. So, go learn and implement what you learn. At this point you should write your ex's IC and withdraw your permission for her to work with your children.


----------



## inging

I had this..
She wants to be friends. She wants you as the husband and Father. Just not the lover.
I had a very short answer to that.. 

Please keep all communication to a minimum. 

I had an inside route to the affair partners email communications. This gave me a very clear insight into the way they were thinking.
1. Everything you say to her is being discussed with him. I mean everything
2. They are both strategizing about how to best deal with your unreasonable behaviour.
3. They both totally believe that it will all work out in the end. After some initial struggle
4. She believes that your behaviour is somewhat abusive. 
5. She genuinely believes that this is right. This may never change.

This led to me running some experiments.. 
False data is sucked up just as fast as real data. She believes that you will tell her the truth.
Total silence drives them nuts. The more silent you are the more they have to deal with each other. 
Saying something that implied that i did not care what happened caused massive communication spikes and much work by the OM to soothe her. 


You are required in their relationship as it is parasitic. Remove yourself as much as possible. Do not be drawn into any talk with her. Expose and stand back..

here is what will happen if i ever get in that situation again..

her: "but ing ing I want to do this. so sorry.. love you not in love with you. wonderful father .. fallen in love. not my fault blah blah fckin blah."

me: Okay: Bye.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> I had this..
> She wants to be friends. She wants you as the husband and Father. Just not the lover.


Spot on, this is exactly her mindset. Her ego is huge, she thinks she can have the world and all that is in it.

Sounds like you went through a tough time but were on top of the game! I recognise many of those observations you have made from the texts I've seen. Unfortunately the OM is delighted that I filed for D so quickly, have cut all be necessary comms and that she moved out.


----------



## TaDor

No comm does drive them nuts (hell, I experienced the other side of it - before I got here and trying to figure out WTF happened). To make it easier on me, I installed an APP that blocked her calls and text messages. (it logged them - but intercepted the messages so my phone wouldn't be going off. It was a crappy app so a few would get through). So in a matter of 2~3 days of no contact, she was acting "nuts" - repeating text messages 20x to get me to respond, etc.

Not sure how to handle the POS, but on my way of thinking: NO NO FU! NO! "He is not of moral character. He could be a child molester. A drug user. I want a full criminal background check on him. etc".

I told my WW that the POSOM is not to be around "my son" = piss her off too. That "he is a drug user, a drunk and not trust worthy"
WW said "I trust him". My response "hahahaha! Are you F~ kidding me? I don't even trust you!" I did file against her and for child custody, etc. POSOM did cocaine with his MOM in front of my WW not long after I filed against her. But she was still in her bubble, it did put a crack in it thou.

As inging says, her fog may lift "between now or never" and so you don't wait and you are not waiting. She is your enemy for a good while.
Also as others have said, do NOT warn about exposure... get it prepped the way you want. No made up crap. If you got screenshots of proof - do it right. (I made on the fly-errors that I shake my head when I look at them - ugh, my mental state was NOT calm. I posted "proof" with a screenshot of my WW and a toxic friend of her's conspiring against our relationship) but for some bone-head reason at the time that makes zero sense to me. I had blacked our their names/and most of their avatars. Since my post was blocked from toxic friend - who was publicly attacking me, another WW friend reposted my screenshot - the toxic friend went silent. Then I saw my error. I was thinking about posting the unedited version - but by then, I was cut-off.

So follow exposure 101, except you are not looking for support to help break the affair - you are way past that point IMO. My exposure was also NOT to get her back, but to put the truth out there. Damn the consequences (Even today - don't give a damn). So by doing it without emotion should work out better for you - and blow up her world.

Also about this time, I would recommend you share this tidbit with you - if she is engaging with you. Think of it as parting words of wisdom as I used something like this on the young POSOM as well as my WW. "Successful relationships from affairs are less than a 1%. Marriage is already challenging - but relationships built on lies and destruction of another relationship are doomed to fail. There was never anything special about your affair, it was just chemical reactions in your brain. You will realize that you broke up a family over cheap sex to be with a cheater. You are both liars and cheaters which mean you will be cheated on sooner rather than later. Our children will know the truth, they deserve that and if you research it yourself - they ALL hate the cheating parent, no matter the age. You will figure this out someday, you will be ashamed of yourself for everything you LOST - even if you never tell me."

I did this very early on - it did mess with the POSOM head... that my WW would CHEAT ON HIM! This was about 10 days after D-Day too and my WW had moved out.

In one of our recent serious talks with my wayward "wife": As I was free and started dating - my love for her was dying by the day, which was good but also I did NOT like it. She had about 2~3 weeks left before it would have been impossible for me to take her back. She and POSOM were planning on getting matching tattoos - and that WOULD have sealed it for me.

From others here, in general - do NOT wait if they don't want to fight to keep their marriage.

Keep this in mind. There is no such thing as an AF who gives a damn about WS/BS's kids. If they did, they wouldn't have F-d up their world.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> I agree, they will work it out but at what cost in the meantime? They are young, impressionable and sociable, so will take to him quickly, no matter what he is like (plus his deep pockets will support).
> 
> That advice is exactly how I am currently playing it with ex, it's good for my future but it lets her walk away thinking everyone is happier and better off. It's difficult to watch, even from a detached distance.


I understand yout thoughts but your wife is no better and perhaps worse than her OM. You can't keep your kids from her either. It's out of your control no matter what. 

Not much you can do. Maybe hope your exposure after blows it up.


----------



## inging

*The OM is all mouth and trousers. *
Lets see how he feels when his employee is in bed with him in the morning with ( insert awful thing you know here) . When he has to fork out child support, negotiate TWO sets of pissed off kids and inlaws. Battle to keep his business going through this. The questions by some clients that will result in their loss. It will not be nice..

Whatever radical things you think you are doing now you will look back and shake your head in disbelief at how damned soft you were. Ramp it up. make their lives as uncomfortable and inconvenient as possible. It is not your job to cheer on this ridiculous fantasy. It is your job to make your kids life easier. 

The funny thing is that society is very unforgiving of this type of relationship. It is not taken lightly and your wife and the OM will suffer ongoing consequences for many, many years. Sadly it is your wife who will suffer most. Unfair as it is a woman who leaves her children for a man is seen as the lowest of the low. I suspect you know this and are shocked at her stupidity. 


*Kids*

Keep on being there. Hold them close, don't allow them too much time alone as they are feeling lost and lonely. 
Be on time for pickup every single time
Be on the end of the phone
Go buy things that they need in both houses. Shoes, undies and pants and do not send them to the other place in them..your wife will play stupid games with things being "in the wash". 
Start new traditions now. Dad things. You can not be their mom but you can take them to ( insert forbidden place) and pig out on chips and burgers.

*Dating*
I had a Girlfriend within 6 weeks. i I would not recommend it solely because she may well be brilliant and gorgeous but a relationship will not survive these awful years . On the upside. Getting laid by someone who likes you is awesome Just be aware of the limitations.

PS
I did go through the wringer and it was very similar situation to this.


----------



## aine

Melrose, when are you going to tell the other BS? Doesn't she have a right to know the details of her POS OM activities?


----------



## Melrose8888

TaDor said:


> No comm does drive them nuts (hell, I experienced the other side of it - before I got here and trying to figure out WTF happened). To make it easier on me, I installed an APP that blocked her calls and text messages. (it logged them - but intercepted the messages so my phone wouldn't be going off. It was a crappy app so a few would get through). So in a matter of 2~3 days of no contact, she was acting "nuts" - repeating text messages 20x to get me to respond, etc.
> 
> Keep this in mind. There is no such thing as an AF who gives a damn about WS/BS's kids. If they did, they wouldn't have F-d up their world.


The STBXW is pretty good at the no comms back actually, makes me wonder if she is doing the 180! Or perhaps just busy in lala land...

All your advice is useful, I guess I am still a way off full exposure but at that time, comms probably ramp up a bit and I will have the chance to get these shots in. That said, I might not even be that bothered by then.

That last statement is true though, he doesn't give a rats about my boys but he tells her he does all the time, cause he tells her exactly what she wants to hear to ensure her "dark blue panties" are constantly coming off for him.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> *The OM is all mouth and trousers. *
> Lets see how he feels when his employee is in bed with him in the morning with ( insert awful thing you know here) . When he has to fork out child support, negotiate TWO sets of pissed off kids and inlaws. Battle to keep his business going through this. The questions by some clients that will result in their loss. It will not be nice..
> 
> Whatever radical things you think you are doing now you will look back and shake your head in disbelief at how damned soft you were. Ramp it up. make their lives as uncomfortable and inconvenient as possible. It is not your job to cheer on this ridiculous fantasy. It is your job to make your kids life easier.
> 
> The funny thing is that society is very unforgiving of this type of relationship. It is not taken lightly and your wife and the OM will suffer ongoing consequences for many, many years. Sadly it is your wife who will suffer most. Unfair as it is a woman who leaves her children for a man is seen as the lowest of the low. I suspect you know this and are shocked at her stupidity.
> 
> 
> *Kids*
> 
> Keep on being there. Hold them close, don't allow them too much time alone as they are feeling lost and lonely.
> Be on time for pickup every single time
> Be on the end of the phone
> Go buy things that they need in both houses. Shoes, undies and pants and do not send them to the other place in them..your wife will play stupid games with things being "in the wash".
> Start new traditions now. Dad things. You can not be their mom but you can take them to ( insert forbidden place) and pig out on chips and burgers.
> 
> *Dating*
> I had a Girlfriend within 6 weeks. i I would not recommend it solely because she may well be brilliant and gorgeous but a relationship will not survive these awful years . On the upside. Getting laid by someone who likes you is awesome Just be aware of the limitations.
> 
> PS
> I did go through the wringer and it was very similar situation to this.


Thanks ing - I will dig out your story when I get the chance.

I feel like I care less and less about them everyday. Obvs the concerns on his dealings with the boys are real for me but even then, I know I can act if anything seems off during the early days (I'm very close to my 7yo son, he will tell me anything and everything).

Kids list is the thing that keep me strong and going - really enjoying the freedom to be the Dad I've always wanted to be.

The girlfriend comment makes me laugh. Think I'm in a similar situation and I have very low expectations...

It's actually my 8 year anniversary tomorrow. At least I made it past the 7 year itch. Hahaha!!


----------



## Melrose8888

aine said:


> Melrose, when are you going to tell the other BS? Doesn't she have a right to know the details of her POS OM activities?


Hope I am less than 6-8 weeks from consent order being sealed, so then.


----------



## TaDor

When you start dating, next month or whenever - be up front and honest of with the women you date - that you are looking ONLY for short-term relationship 2~4 weeks, or hang out with friends, start networking. Keep it NSA for over a year.


----------



## Melrose8888

So the wife seems to be stalling on signing the Mediation documents (some bull about not seeing my prompts for her to sign cause messenger isn't working, despite her ability to still like posts on FB seems OK...).

The real tough event this week came from my 7yo son - putting him to bed, he has a picture of me and the STBXW on his bedside, a happy, cuddly photo from over 10 years ago. He just turned to me and burst out crying, saying "I just want you to be together like that photo, it always makes me cry when I look at it".

Of course this set me off too but I managed to tell him this was a happy time, there will be sad times for him ahead too but we must remember the good times too. Then reiterated that it wasn't his fault (went as far to say its your mother fault, this time) and that we will always love him and be there for him in the happy and sad times too.

7 years old and his emotions are so strong - it scares me for the future


----------



## Grapes

catching up on your story. Sorry man.. i can relate!

My biggest fear in my my situation has nothing to do with my posw but with the future of my awesome boy. He is 1 + a few months right now and he is the happiest bundle of joy i have ever seen. Just always smiling, laughing and he melts my heart. If my situation takes that away from him i will devastated. For you to hold it together when your boy broke down like that shows how strong you really are! Witnessing these little innocent beings get emotional is heart wrenching. I'm sorry man.

My psow will more then likely have a revolving door of men is my guess. All we can do is be that solid consistent fixture in their life.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> So the wife seems to be stalling on signing the Mediation documents (some bull about not seeing my prompts for her to sign cause messenger isn't working, despite her ability to still like posts on FB seems OK...).
> 
> The real tough event this week came from my 7yo son - putting him to bed, he has a picture of me and the STBXW on his bedside, a happy, cuddly photo from over 10 years ago. He just turned to me and burst out crying, saying "I just want you to be together like that photo, it always makes me cry when I look at it".
> 
> Of course this set me off too but I managed to tell him this was a happy time, there will be sad times for him ahead too but we must remember the good times too. Then reiterated that it wasn't his fault (went as far to say its your mother fault, this time) and that we will always love him and be there for him in the happy and sad times too.
> 
> 7 years old and his emotions are so strong - it scares me for the future


The mindset is that your wife is entitled to it all. She is starting to realize that this affair comes with costs. Do not think this means anything. She will soon start the pity party for herself. Ignore it.

It is good your son can talk to you. He is dealing with the fact that his Mother decided that there was something better or that you must have been really horrible to her. In some ways the latter is easier to accept for him in the short term. The truth is that he feels betrayed by both of you. It is not fair on you but hey.. Add it to the list.
This is why I was banging on about being there. Being consistent. yada yada.


----------



## Melrose8888

Grapes said:


> catching up on your story. Sorry man.. i can relate!
> 
> My biggest fear in my my situation has nothing to do with my posw but with the future of my awesome boy. He is 1 + a few months right now and he is the happiest bundle of joy i have ever seen. Just always smiling, laughing and he melts my heart. If my situation takes that away from him i will devastated. For you to hold it together when your boy broke down like that shows how strong you really are! Witnessing these little innocent beings get emotional is heart wrenching. I'm sorry man.
> 
> My psow will more then likely have a revolving door of men is my guess. All we can do is be that solid consistent fixture in their life.


Thanks Grapes, I've dipped in and out of your story without realising you were thread starter. I can't imagine how tough this must be with a boy of just over 1 but the beauty here is you hold all the cards to make sure he grows up the way you want him to be. I hope you get more than 50% but even that, verses the way it sounds your POSW acts, will stand him in good stead. We can teach them right from wrong, we have the painful experience to prove it!


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> The mindset is that your wife is entitled to it all. She is starting to realize that this affair comes with costs. Do not think this means anything. She will soon start the pity party for herself. Ignore it.


I think this late realisation is due to us trying to put on a united front for Christmas, for the boys. This gave her a false sense that we were going to be friends. Until I chucked her out on Boxing Day, that is!


----------



## Marc878

Going forward ALL holidays, birthdays etc should be separate. Do not in anyway associate yourself with her once she's gone. Let her sleep in that bed alone.


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose,
Seems a few of us are in this situation.
Practical advice helps in this storm the POS EX has whizzed up and took us and our innocent children along for the ride.

It's really helped me engraining my 2 munchkins in to my family. My rels and I have always been solid, I have no brothers and sisters but I have 5 aunts and 2 uncles. Typical Irish family, no TV in the 60s I guess lol.

My aunts and uncles and mum all had a mum who was a POS WW too. Gramps booted her out and between him and his sister they brought those 7 kids up and they worshiped the ground they walked on.

Nobody knows infidelity like my aunts and uncles. I've always been very close to all of them. Since D Day my family has closed ranks and shut shop around my girls and I.

My advice to you is to ensure your family is well embedded with your children. This is beneficial to you to lean on them a bit, adds stability to both you and your kids chaotic situation and is only beneficial to all of you.

The long game means they'll be closer to your side of the family than exes. They'll have more people to play with, reach out to and confide in. 

It's a win win situation and will help get you all back on an even footing quicker.

Lean on those people, that's what family's are for. - To healing !!!!


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> Melrose,
> Seems a few of us are in this situation.
> Practical advice helps in this storm the POS EX has whizzed up and took us and our innocent children along for the ride.
> 
> It's really helped me engraining my 2 munchkins in to my family. My rels and I have always been solid, I have no brothers and sisters but I have 5 aunts and 2 uncles. Typical Irish family, no TV in the 60s I guess lol.
> 
> My aunts and uncles and mum all had a mum who was a POS WW too. Gramps booted her out and between him and his sister they brought those 7 kids up and they worshiped the ground they walked on.
> 
> Nobody knows infidelity like my aunts and uncles. I've always been very close to all of them. Since D Day my family has closed ranks and shut shop around my girls and I.
> 
> My advice to you is to ensure your family is well embedded with your children. This is beneficial to you to lean on them a bit, adds stability to both you and your kids chaotic situation and is only beneficial to all of you.
> 
> The long game means they'll be closer to your side of the family than exes. They'll have more people to play with, reach out to and confide in.
> 
> It's a win win situation and will help get you all back on an even footing quicker.
> 
> Lean on those people, that's what family's are for. - To healing !!!!


Great advice Danny. My side of the family is Irish too, so 10's of cousins but all still in Ireland. My folks are 2 hours away though, are very close to them and are the only one's to have looked after the boys. (un)fortunately, the MIL and stepdad are harmless but not fit to look after them for 5 minutes, let alone overnight. So that is a good thing.

I need to expand my local support network though, the POSW has a monopoly on the school mums. I'm working on the nursery mums (so to speak...!)


----------



## Danny4133

Oh mate, I know what you mean about the "playground click" personally I think they think I'm hot stuff now I'm available and looking the shizz, hence they don't engage me lol. It doesn't bother me though. All that's missing from that crew is a bloody cauldron and a black cat.

Tbh I'd surmise most of them are at the same thing. No big loss, the truth always comes out in the end.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Love your analogies Danny. It is the Irish humor built into your genes.


----------



## Evinrude58

"All that's missing from that crew is a bloody cauldron and a black cat"

Roflmao.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Melrose8888 said:


> So the wife seems to be stalling on signing the Mediation documents (some bull about not seeing my prompts for her to sign cause messenger isn't working, despite her ability to still like posts on FB seems OK...).
> 
> The real tough event this week came from my 7yo son - putting him to bed, he has a picture of me and the STBXW on his bedside, a happy, cuddly photo from over 10 years ago. He just turned to me and burst out crying, saying "I just want you to be together like that photo, it always makes me cry when I look at it".
> 
> Of course this set me off too but I managed to tell him this was a happy time, there will be sad times for him ahead too but we must remember the good times too. Then reiterated that it wasn't his fault (went as far to say its your mother fault, this time) and that we will always love him and be there for him in the happy and sad times too.
> 
> 7 years old and his emotions are so strong - it scares me for the future


Do something fun with him. Take some nice pictures of you two smiling and laughing. Replace that picture on his night stand with you and him together. You can let him remove that picture when he is ready. Make new good memories of you and him together.

Guess I'm a little late, but it seems we all have the same general idea.


----------



## becareful2

Danny4133 said:


> Melrose,
> Seems a few of us are in this situation.
> Practical advice helps in this storm the POS EX has whizzed up and took us and our innocent children along for the ride.
> 
> It's really helped me engraining my 2 munchkins in to my family. My rels and I have always been solid, I have no brothers and sisters but I have 5 aunts and 2 uncles. Typical Irish family, no TV in the 60s I guess lol.
> 
> My aunts and uncles and mum all had a mum who was a POS WW too. Gramps booted her out and between him and his sister they brought those 7 kids up and they worshiped the ground they walked on.
> 
> Nobody knows infidelity like my aunts and uncles. I've always been very close to all of them. Since D Day my family has closed ranks and shut shop around my girls and I.
> 
> My advice to you is to ensure your family is well embedded with your children. This is beneficial to you to lean on them a bit, adds stability to both you and your kids chaotic situation and is only beneficial to all of you.
> 
> The long game means they'll be closer to your side of the family than exes. They'll have more people to play with, reach out to and confide in.
> 
> It's a win win situation and will help get you all back on an even footing quicker.
> 
> Lean on those people, that's what family's are for. - To healing !!!!


Don't mean to threadjack, but did the karma bus ever run your wayward grandma over?


----------



## Danny4133

becareful2 said:


> Don't mean to threadjack, but did the karma bus ever run your wayward grandma over?


If you count grandad winning custody of all 7 kids 4 of the 7 never talking to her again or attending her funeral. Ma and all of them counting their aunt who gave up her life in Ireland to raise them as their mother. Her side of the family trying to engage my aunts uncles and such at gramps funeral to agree the man laid to rest that day was a hero buried with his sister together. Not a POS

I'd say yes overall Karma did its duty.


----------



## Melrose8888

A day of deep reflection for me.

Let's just park the infidelity for now and go back to basics.

Hands up, my part in the deteriation of my marriage can be listed:

1. I was emotionally abusive for the past 3 years. I allowed my anger with not getting what I wanted (sex, my voice heard, my parenting style adopted etc) to spill over into threats to leave and name calling.
2. I had to validate everything I did with my wife. If she disagreed or blanked me, I thought something was wrong with our marriage. This led me to be very defensive in arguements.
3. I have a deep need for respect in any relationship and when I feel it goes missing, I tend to go missing too.
4. I wasn't a natural father at the start of fatherhood. I found it incredibly difficult to get involved with them at an early age. I lacked confidence in this area and I gave myself a hard time over it. This spilled over into my marriage, as I felt I was letting my wife down.
5. I took too much personal responsibility for the family. I made decisions over jobs, commutes, house purchases, which friends to see, vastly reduced 'me' time, because I wanted the best for my wife and kids. But I held resentment when my needs weren't reciprocated (linked to points 1-3).

There are more but of course, I'd never accept that any of the above justifies someone having an affair but it does go a long way to understanding why it occurred. My STBXW did put up with a lot of sh1t from me, did initially try to get us to MC years ago and used to try to get me to talk about it calmly.

It's also true to say she had given up on this a long time ago, perhaps years ago and I suspect she didn't love me for a lot longer then before the AP came along. Then again, she didn't tell me this, possibly because of 2 above.

It also made me realise, I need to keep up my IC, to avoid any mistakes I made, in future relationships.

Perhaps the biggest outcome of this, is that I can actually see that I need to change. This couldn't have continued. The box of darkness was a gift.

I'd even go as far as saying that, under textbook remorse circumstances, I would now consider R. Not that I wish for, nor expect it.

If the good people of TAM have any views on the above, good or bad, I'd welcome them.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Melrose8888 said:


> A day of deep reflection for me.
> 
> Let's just park the infidelity for now and go back to basics.
> 
> Hands up, my part in the deteriation of my marriage can be listed:
> 
> 1. I was emotionally abusive for the past 3 years. I allowed my anger with not getting what I wanted (sex, my voice heard, my parenting style adopted etc) to spill over into threats to leave and name calling.
> 2. I had to validate everything I did with my wife. If she disagreed or blanked me, I thought something was wrong with our marriage. This led me to be very defensive in arguements.
> 3. I have a deep need for respect in any relationship and when I feel it goes missing, I tend to go missing too.
> 4. I wasn't a natural father at the start of fatherhood. I found it incredibly difficult to get involved with them at an early age. I lacked confidence in this area and I gave myself a hard time over it. This spilled over into my marriage, as I felt I was letting my wife down.
> 5. I took too much personal responsibility for the family. I made decisions over jobs, commutes, house purchases, which friends to see, vastly reduced 'me' time, because I wanted the best for my wife and kids. But I held resentment when my needs weren't reciprocated (linked to points 1-3).
> 
> There are more but of course, I'd never accept that any of the above justifies someone having an affair but it does go a long way to understanding why it occurred. My STBXW did put up with a lot of sh1t from me, did initially try to get us to MC years ago and used to try to get me to talk about it calmly.
> 
> It's also true to say she had given up on this a long time ago, perhaps years ago and I suspect she didn't love me for a lot longer then before the AP came along. Then again, she didn't tell me this, possibly because of 2 above.
> 
> It also made me realise, I need to keep up my IC, to avoid any mistakes I made, in future relationships.
> 
> Perhaps the biggest outcome of this, is that I can actually see that I need to change. This couldn't have continued. The box of darkness was a gift.
> 
> I'd even go as far as saying that, under textbook remorse circumstances, I would now consider R. Not that I wish for, nor expect it.
> 
> If the good people of TAM have any views on the above, good or bad, I'd welcome them.



Here is a view from a different perspective. It does not include what I think you did wrong. 

1. You didn't get what you needed in your marriage.
2.Your wife refused to work with you on marital decisions.
3. Your wife didn't respect you.
4.No one is a natural father. If your wife loved being a family with you, she would have helped you learn some of the things you needed to know to help her. She was selfish and entitled.
5.Your wife only cared about what she did. Your marriage was less important to her than you and she did not care to spend the time necessary to make compromising decisions based on what was best for the family. 


Your wife had no vested interest in anything other than being married. When she found out it wasn't what she thought it would be and it became difficult, she looked for fantasy to replace the hardship of responsibility. She chose, just as you, to get married. It's a huge responsibility. Some get overwhelmed and lose themselves. I think she did. 

Issues I see in you. 

- you wait too long to get out when you know things are not right, then you get angry

- you expected her to do things you never asked when you did things she never asked(covert contract NMMNG), you were not working with her, but telling her what to do, that's only okay when you are her guardian or parent and she is a child


The infidelity occurred because she knew no other way to handle her issues. It had less to do with you than you realize. It was about her and for her. 

There are other ways to handle dissatisfaction, frustration and loneliness that do not include infidelity. 

Blame yourself for her decisions and you run the risk of living in a fool's paradise. 

You only need blame yourself for what you did, not what she did.

Yes, see your counselor for further instructions and understanding. It takes time to figure all of this out and feel good again. 

Do not blame yourself for her choice to be unfaithful. It is not true, unless you held a gun to her head and told her to strip while having another man or woman have sex with her. 

I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. Right?


----------



## farsidejunky

Melrose8888 said:


> A day of deep reflection for me.
> 
> Let's just park the infidelity for now and go back to basics.
> 
> Hands up, my part in the deteriation of my marriage can be listed:
> 
> 1. I was emotionally abusive for the past 3 years. I allowed my anger with not getting what I wanted (sex, my voice heard, my parenting style adopted etc) to spill over into threats to leave and name calling.
> 2. I had to validate everything I did with my wife. If she disagreed or blanked me, I thought something was wrong with our marriage. This led me to be very defensive in arguements.
> 3. I have a deep need for respect in any relationship and when I feel it goes missing, I tend to go missing too.
> 4. I wasn't a natural father at the start of fatherhood. I found it incredibly difficult to get involved with them at an early age. I lacked confidence in this area and I gave myself a hard time over it. This spilled over into my marriage, as I felt I was letting my wife down.
> 5. I took too much personal responsibility for the family. I made decisions over jobs, commutes, house purchases, which friends to see, vastly reduced 'me' time, because I wanted the best for my wife and kids. But I held resentment when my needs weren't reciprocated (linked to points 1-3).
> 
> There are more but of course, I'd never accept that any of the above justifies someone having an affair but it does go a long way to understanding why it occurred. My STBXW did put up with a lot of sh1t from me, did initially try to get us to MC years ago and used to try to get me to talk about it calmly.
> 
> It's also true to say she had given up on this a long time ago, perhaps years ago and I suspect she didn't love me for a lot longer then before the AP came along. Then again, she didn't tell me this, possibly because of 2 above.
> 
> It also made me realise, I need to keep up my IC, to avoid any mistakes I made, in future relationships.
> 
> Perhaps the biggest outcome of this, is that I can actually see that I need to change. This couldn't have continued. The box of darkness was a gift.
> 
> I'd even go as far as saying that, under textbook remorse circumstances, I would now consider R. Not that I wish for, nor expect it.
> 
> If the good people of TAM have any views on the above, good or bad, I'd welcome them.


It is always healthy to take a long look at ourselves. 

Use this time to become the man you want to be, Melrose.


----------



## 2ntnuf

M8,

Block anyone who is telling you it's your fault. Do not accept pm's from them. Do not read their posts. This is very important. Do not think I am being mean or unfair. 

I am being quite fair and my compassion is with you. 

Do it!

Then, talk to your counselor. Don't try to get counseling here. Get advice to get you through your divorce here. Get opinions here. 

Do not believe counseling about whose fault it was, from this place. 

Talk to your counselor about your feelings. If you don't have one, get one. This is very important, M8. 

Please at least consider what I am posting here. Others will throw you into the worst depression of your life, if you let them. 

Do not let them. They are wrong. Their compassion is false. They feign compassion for you. Their compassion does not lie with you. 

You have the power to deny them this abuse. Stick with the 180 until you see a counselor for a while.


----------



## inging

2ntnuf said:


> Do not blame yourself for her choice to be unfaithful. It is not true, unless you held a gun to her head and told her to strip while having another man or woman have sex with her.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that didn't happen. Right?


Quoted so you read it twice.


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks 2ntnuf for putting a balanced view on it.

I don't blame myself for the infidelity but I do believe an important part in recovery is understanding how it could have happened. These are the factors that create the how, the ex's state of mind is the why.

Why I continued my behaviour, despite knowing is was not good for my marriage is key.

And you are spot on, I do hang around too long, in bad jobs, with bad friends, in bad relationships. I need to make decisions quicker, even when there is so much to lose.

I used to be very different before I got engaged, certainly not a nice guy but felt marriage, being a father, that I should cut out the flirting, keeping the ex on her toes, take less risks, was the right person to be. It wasn't.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> I used to be very different before I got engaged, certainly not a nice guy but felt marriage, being a father, that I should cut out the flirting, keeping the ex on her toes, take less risks, was the right person to be. It wasn't.


Explain this? What are you saying here? Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying being a flirty risk taker would have put you in a better position? This sounds like Red Pill. Being strong doesn't mean flirting while you are married or jumping out of an airplane. It means being assertive, having honor, and expecting respect. 

By the way their are plenty of guys who are worse then you and don't get cheated on. Look be the best spouse you can be, but that has nothing to do with her bad character. Everyone has troubles, it's the way you handle them that makes you a good choice. She is not.

See your post shows you are not getting the lesson. The lesson is even if you do this and are the best spouse in the world, if you choose to be with a 5hitty person they will cheat on you. So now you are now going to take all the blame redouble your efforts, and run the same risk of picking a bad choice. Unless you get the lesson you will always be at risk. CHEATERS CHEAT BECAUSE OF LACK OF CHARACTER, that's really it. It's not because of the conditions you set up. 

Did the things you did hurt your marriage? Maybe but that is a different subject entirely. If you think you need to work on that then good go for it. However if you think working on this is going to in anyway prevent the same thing from happening you are on a fool's errand. Again the thing that keeps people from cheating is character. You weed out bad character by expecting nothing less, not by trying to do everything right. You accept that you are going to make mistakes, and so is she, but character issues are non-starters. 

Frankly your whole post sounds passive aggressive and right out of the nice guy playbook. You are setting up those nonverbal promises already with a person you have never even met. I will be the best spouse I can be, and then you won't cheat on me. Sorry it doesn't work like that. The reward for being the best spouse you can be may not be having a faithful spouse. The way you get a faithful spouse is by picking someone of character, and being ready to bail at the first sign that they don't have it, way before you get married. Even then there are no guarantees, because of that you just have to accept that and don't put all your eggs in one basket.


----------



## TaDor

Melrose8888 : I agree in general with others here... You need more time to work on yourself. And even I did a lot of mistakes that requires work. Never forget that anything you did, has little to do with her having sex with others. Did it weaken your marriage?

Things my wife did (Drinking) weakened our marriage. Then I put some distance between us - making the crack bigger.

You've just stated the dreaded considering of the R word. In the end, it doesn't fully matter what we all say to you. We're a bunch of buds in a room sharing stories and see how things may work.

You are 1 month into D-Day pretty much, the affair is still very fresh. You may really want your old life back. But that will never happen. I'm in R. Its my choice. But it took 5 months of false starts, jail time (not me), self-reflection from both of us. Then we asked each other if he wanted to do R.

I'm crashing out soon...

But remember, you can always stop D at any time. When my wayward wife and I were in court to sign final orders (meaning, divorce/child custody is officially done) - the bailiff told us "If you are in R, you can post-pone or not do final orders" I / we wanted this part over... no court limbo. I told my wayward that during R, that I will NOT stop the court issues that are already in motion. She would have to be willing to take a chance that *I* would not screw her over. She had opened all her legal stuff to me to go over. She was in a weak position, which I already knew - and that her lawyer was just taking money from her and lying to her what he was doing, which was nothing.

So, if you decide to talk to your STBX about R all of the sudden. - DON'T jump into it. As most just take it into consideration. At least discuss here if you can. And you should tell us the feedback/actions she does to and others here can give you an idea if she is being sincere.

I am agree with others here in general. Keep doing 180. What you have said about her... has not sold us. Her coldness and such, its been a month or so since D-Day... she seems to switch her behaviors.

Going to sleep soon.


----------



## Melrose8888

sokillme said:


> Explain this? What are you saying here? Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying being a flirty risk taker would have put you in a better position? This sounds like Red Pill. Being strong doesn't mean flirting while you are married or jumping out of an airplane. It means being assertive, having honor, and expecting respect.
> 
> By the way their are plenty of guys who are worse then you and don't get cheated on. Look be the best spouse you can be, but that has nothing to do with her bad character. Everyone has troubles, it's the way you handle them that makes you a good choice. She is not.
> 
> See your post shows you are not getting the lesson. The lesson is even if you do this and are the best spouse in the world, if you choose to be with a 5hitty person they will cheat on you. So now you are now going to take all the blame redouble your efforts, and run the same risk of picking a bad choice. Unless you get the lesson you will always be at risk. CHEATERS CHEAT BECAUSE OF LACK OF CHARACTER, that's really it. It's not because of the conditions you set up.
> 
> Did the things you did hurt your marriage? Maybe but that is a different subject entirely. If you think you need to work on that then good go for it. However if you think working on this is going to in anyway prevent the same thing from happening you are on a fool's errand. Again the thing that keeps people from cheating is character. You weed out bad character by expecting nothing less, not by trying to do everything right. You accept that you are going to make mistakes, and so is she, but character issues are non-starters.
> 
> Frankly your whole post sounds passive aggressive and right out of the nice guy playbook. You are setting up those nonverbal promises already with a person you have never even met. I will be the best spouse I can be, and then you won't cheat on me. Sorry it doesn't work like that. The reward for being the best spouse you can be may not be having a faithful spouse. The way you get a faithful spouse is by picking someone of character, and being ready to bail at the first sign that they don't have it, way before you get married. Even then there are no guarantees, because of that you just have to accept that and don't put all your eggs in one basket.


What I'm saying is I changed, the way I used to be worked before, the new me didn't, not in this marriage anyway. And of course I understand that all could be 'perfect' and it could still happen but the most important part of your reply for me, is this:



sokillme said:


> The way you get a faithful spouse is by picking someone of character, and being ready to bail at the first sign that they don't have it, way before you get married. Even then there are no guarantees, because of that you just have to accept that and don't put all your eggs in one basket.


I did pick someone of character. Every one of my friends or family said, "no, not STBX, that isn't her style at all". But what I did was influence her in a bad way, so that her character changed. I reiterate, this does NOT make my fault that she cheated but I did contribute to the situation. I honestly believe (and the BS here will no doubt laugh) that if I had wanted this marriage to work and hadn't acted in this way, we would have been OK. I am sure she would have had a perfect working relationship with her boss but it wouldn't have turned into 'not just friends'.

The non verbal contracts part is very true though but that was down to poor communication after I had tried to comm on my unhappiness but got the 'go get a prostitute then' line. Yes, red flag, should have got out quicker / or gone to MC.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> What I'm saying is I changed, the way I used to be worked before, the new me didn't, not in this marriage anyway. And of course I understand that all could be 'perfect' and it could still happen but the most important part of your reply for me, is this:
> 
> 
> 
> I did pick someone of character. Every one of my friends or family said, "no, not STBX, that isn't her style at all". But what I did was influence her in a bad way, so that her character changed. I reiterate, this does NOT make my fault that she cheated but I did contribute to the situation. I honestly believe (and the BS here will no doubt laugh) that if I had wanted this marriage to work and hadn't acted in this way, we would have been OK. I am sure she would have had a perfect working relationship with her boss but it wouldn't have turned into 'not just friends'.
> 
> The non verbal contracts part is very true though but that was down to poor communication after I had tried to comm on my unhappiness but got the 'go get a prostitute then' line. Yes, red flag, should have got out quicker / or gone to MC.


I think you're wrong. Every one of your family and friends were wrong too, it was her style obviously. Cheating is cheating bad marriage or not. People cheat in good marriages people cheat in bad ones. It's the people who cheat that are the problem. She could have just left you. 

I also think having an affair with your boss and thinking you are going to have a happily ever after is a really stupid decision and it will blow up in her face. I suspect stability will be a missing element of her life for a while. Just watch and see. Your wife has character issues whether you chose to see them or not. 

But it's your life.


----------



## Melrose8888

TaDor said:


> Melrose8888 : I agree in general with others here... You need more time to work on yourself. And even I did a lot of mistakes that requires work. Never forget that anything you did told her to have sex with others. Did it weaken your marriage?
> 
> Things my wife did (Drinking) weakened our marriage. Then I put some distance between us - making the crack bigger.
> 
> You've just stated the dreaded considering of the R word. In the end, it doesn't fully matter what we all say to you. We're a bunch of buds in a room sharing stories and see how things may work.
> 
> You are 1 month into D-Day pretty much, the affair is still very fresh. You may really want your old life back. But that will never happen. I'm in R. Its my choice. But it took 5 months of false starts, jail time (not me), self-reflection from both of us. Then we asked each other if he wanted to do R.
> 
> I'm crashing out soon...
> 
> But remember, you can always stop D at any time. When my wayward wife and I were in court to sign final orders (meaning, divorce/child custody is officially done) - the bailiff told us "If you are in R, you can post-pone or not do final orders" I / we wanted this part over... no court limbo. I told my wayward that during R, that I will NOT stop the court issues that are already in motion. She would have to be willing to take a chance that *I* would not screw her over. She had opened all her legal stuff to me to go over. She was in a weak position, which I already knew - and that her lawyer was just taking money from her and lying to her what he was doing, which was nothing.
> 
> So, if you decide to talk to your STBX about R all of the sudden. - DON'T jump into it. As most just take it into consideration. At least discuss here if you can. And you should tell us the feedback/actions she does to and others here can give you an idea if she is being sincere.
> 
> I am agree with others here in general. Keep doing 180. What you have said about her... has not sold us. Her coldness and such, its been a month or so since D-Day... she seems to switch her behaviors.
> 
> Going to sleep soon.


Thanks TaDor, sorry to hear your issues, especially with the booze involved.  

I know that old life has gone but for the first time I can see how I could change, to allow R (albeit one that would clearly take years) to have a chance. Now, that is OK from my side, reality is, the ex is nowhere near considering R, and as you rightly point out, she herself is not acting with any remorse and affair continues but I wanted to see if it did appeal to me. It does but the conditions won't be right for a minimum of years, all the way to never. So, I press on with D but I guess, with keeping 180 going, the ex doesn't know that I even think like this. If she did, might she be less stubborn and consider it?!

I caught the affair very early (EA was going on for 3 months) but truly, I knew the night the PA started (she stayed an a hotel 10 miles away for 'work' on a Monday!!) and I called it the day after, only for her to deny it. It took a few more meets for me to get the evidence. So with that in mind (of course they PA with each other all the time now) but what women doesn't have history? At least I know hers, I know who he is and I'd know if she was genuinely ready to give it another go.

All of this might well be irrelevant but it does help me take small steps forward, I have to consider R before I can reject it entirely.


----------



## Melrose8888

sokillme said:


> I think you're wrong. Every one of your family and friends were wrong too, it was her style obviously. Cheating is cheating bad marriage or not. People cheat in good marriages people cheat in bad ones. It's the people who cheat that are the problem. She could have just left you.
> 
> I also think having an affair with your boss and thinking you are going to have a happily ever after is a really stupid decision and it will blow up in her face. I suspect stability will be a missing element of her life for a while. Just watch and see. Your wife has character issues whether you chose to see them or not.
> 
> But it's your life.


Yes, she does have character issues, she couldn't just leave me, she had to have someone else waiting, she couldn't be alone.

But I changed her character. I have to admit some of THAT blame, else I might pick someone else with 'good' character and make the same mistakes again and change her.

My ex was a pretty decent woman all in all (we both made mistakes, as we all do, in the lead up to way before her EA) and she can still be that decent woman again. So why wouldn't I consider it? Why should POSOM be the one to reap the benefits?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> Yes, she does have character issues, she couldn't just leave me, she had to have someone else waiting, she couldn't be alone.
> 
> *But I changed her character.* I have to admit some of THAT blame, else I might pick someone else with 'good' character and make the same mistakes again and change her.
> 
> My ex was a pretty decent woman all in all (we both made mistakes, as we all do, in the lead up to way before her EA) and she can still be that decent woman again. So why wouldn't I consider it? Why should POSOM be the one to reap the benefits?


You can't change another persons character. Her character is what determined her reaction to your behavior. No matter how bad your behavior, if she had good character she would not have cheated. It's as simple as that.

Your behavior may have provoked her into some kind of response, but it was her inherent lack of character that made cheating possible. Not you.


----------



## sokillme

Nucking Futs said:


> You can't change another persons character. Her character is what determined her reaction to your behavior. No matter how bad your behavior, if she had good character she would not have cheated. It's as simple as that.
> 
> Your behavior may have provoked her into some kind of response, but it was her inherent lack of character that made cheating possible. Not you.


:iagree:


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## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> I'm in England, so law and *time is not in my side.*
> 
> I think the first request will get a short response. *"He's got so much to offer them" *quote will no doubt reappear.
> 
> I will make the second official though, it was discussed but nothing wrong with it being formal.


As long as the bolded statement above applies, as long as it remains active and true you are at a distinct disadvantage.

*The only thing that you really have on your side IS TIME. 
*
If he was so low as to steal another's wife he will likely do something equally egregious to your WW. Well, not quite that bad. He cannot hurt your wife as SHE HURT YOU. She is a social climbing butterfly with a heart of stone. Any future pain that she might receive will be felt in her "pocky book". The one that is glued to her sticky mind.

Her puzzy is gold clad and is subject to peeling and tarnish. She is a Gold Digger.

Hopefully, the POSOM frog will realize that her poop is riff with broken, silver-backed glass. He will dump her by applying the Broken Mirror superstition. Seven Years bad luck. 

She broke the mirror that held her families image in it. She ate the glass and now has voided it on his Black Lily pad. He knows he cannot trust her. Their relationship is based on lies and deception.

In time, your children will know the truth. The truth that Mommy left Daddy for another man. She left him for 13 pieces of silver.................. backed mirror.


----------



## Melrose8888

Nucking Futs said:


> You can't change another persons character. Her character is what determined her reaction to your behavior. No matter how bad your behavior, if she had good character she would not have cheated. It's as simple as that.
> 
> Your behavior may have provoked her into some kind of response, but it was her inherent lack of character that made cheating possible. Not you.


OK - this I understand and agree with. Yes, I provoked her and no, if (when the) roles were reserved, I wouldn't have (didn't) cheat.


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## straightshooter

*I don't blame myself for the infidelity but I do believe an important part in recovery is understanding how it could have happened. These are the factors that create the how, the ex's state of mind is the why.*

Melrose,

Understanding or trying to understand why it happened will drive you bat **** mad. Women in absolutely happy and "perfect" marriages cheat. it's all over this forum. As a matter of fact, my wife would have told you as she told me our marriage was perfect. Could not find one thing wrong with me. guess what??/ it mattered not.

Thousands of women are in much worse relationships than your wife had and do not cheat. Concentrate on yourself but i would not waste time trying to understand how it could have happened.

There is no one on this forum or any other who has any guarantee at all that it will not happen again regardless of what you do. That is the chance you have to be willing to take and accept in order to consider reconciliation.

She did it because she wanted to, and her behavior recently is because she wanted to. That is all you really need to know.

Hang in there


----------



## jb02157

straightshooter said:


> Women in absolutely happy and "perfect" marriages cheat. it's all over this forum. As a matter of fact, my wife would have told you as she told me our marriage was perfect. Could not find one thing wrong with me. guess what??/ it mattered not.


The only other thing is that they have to be morally bankrupt enough to do it. Then it becomes something that's just a fun activity that there's really not any harm in.


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## 2ntnuf

straightshooter said:


> *I don't blame myself for the infidelity but I do believe an important part in recovery is understanding how it could have happened. These are the factors that create the how, the ex's state of mind is the why.*
> 
> Melrose,
> 
> Understanding or trying to understand why it happened will drive you bat **** mad. Women in absolutely happy and "perfect" marriages cheat. it's all over this forum. As a matter of fact, my wife would have told you as she told me our marriage was perfect. Could not find one thing wrong with me. guess what??/ it mattered not.
> 
> Thousands of women are in much worse relationships than your wife had and do not cheat. Concentrate on yourself but i would not waste time trying to understand how it could have happened.
> 
> There is no one on this forum or any other who has any guarantee at all that it will not happen again regardless of what you do. That is the chance you have to be willing to take and accept in order to consider reconciliation.
> 
> She did it because she wanted to, and her behavior recently is because she wanted to. That is all you really need to know.
> 
> Hang in there


M8,

There are many truthful posts about her infidelity and your responsibility in this thread. I chose this one to quote because it has the simplest truth. She wanted to cheat. She did. That's really it. 

Oh, you can say she wanted more money or better places/people to spend her time with. Are they better? If they like POSOM, I'm not sure. 

You can say she did it because she was horny and lonely and felt like she wasn't appreciated. 

When you gain perspective other than her, her, her, you will find that none of it matters. What does matter is how you handle yourself from here. Okay, you have some issues. Work on them. If you do, one of two things will happen. Actually, more than that are possible, but these are a start.

1. You will cause her to notice changes in you and want to come back. I seriously, seriously doubt this. She made her mind up to cheat or actually, to make a decision Not to love you anymore, long before she cheated. It is highly unlikely she will change her mind, but if she does, know that you are second fiddle to her POSOM, and always will be. Because, she decided to move on from you. Women don't usually go backward. They move forward, even if it is not the best choice. 

2. You will become the man you wish you were, or actually, someone better than you wish you were cause you don't yet know what is the best you can be. You haven't tried, yet. You have to focus on yourself to do that. You haven't yet. You focus on her and what you did to her and her pain at whatever. **** that! You will say this with time and self improvement. 

Then, you will either find a much better woman, or you will find you don't want or need a woman to complete you and you will only want to be with women who are like you. Strong women, women of great character, all others will turn you off. Sure, you may think they are sexy, but you won't be interested in anything serious.

In a day or so, come back and read the illogical bull crap you want us to believe. 

You said something like, "I changed my wife to make her cheat", "I have to change so that she doesn't cheat".

Okay, so why not change her so she doesn't cheat? You changed her so she would. Now, change her so she won't. 

Can't? Why not? You changed her so she would cheat. Didn't you? I guess maybe you don't have the power you think you do? 


You will never change if you do it for her or your marriage. You will only make lasting change if you want to do it to be a better man, so that you will have more pride in yourself, more courage, more self-respect, greater character. 

It's all for you. If a woman wants to come along for the ride, that's up to her. It isn't up to you. You can't play some game so that your wife or any woman will want you. You can clean yourself up, act the best you can and do the best you can. Then, take your chances. 

No one, no one, can guarantee that another spouse or girlfriend won't cheat. Look up some threads here on the subject of "Affair Proofing". It is impossible to completely eliminate the option of cheating. You can only be the best man you can. Your spouse has to choose on her own. You can't be with her all the time. You can't *make *her happy. That comes from within. 

Read over these posts again in a day or so. They may make some more sense to you than they do now. 

M8, don't throw away your life to be her second choice. Find someone for whom you will be a first choice. 

Get into counseling and get help to learn better boundaries, self-esteem and how to say no. 

Listen to this song when you find yourself getting weak. 

Self Esteem - The Offspring

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## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 There's a good chance that even if you had been as near to perfection as possible, your wife may well have found a reason (aka an excuse) to cheat on you.


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## Melrose8888

OK, I want to hate her for what she has done to me and my boys.
I want use that hate and anger to move on.
I want to forget about her and the POSOM.
How do I go about that?


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, I want to hate her for what she has done to me and my boys.
> I want use that hate and anger to move on.
> I want to forget about her and the POSOM.
> How do I go about that?


Don't hate her just take the rose colored glasses off and see what she has done. How would you feel about her if it wasn't you in the situation, if you didn't have all that history. See her for what she is. You don't need hate, what you need to do is kill the love you have in your heart. The best way to do that, is what you do whenever you are dreaming, throw cold water on it. Cold naked truth. That will change her in your mind and then your heart will catch up. Eventually you will just see her is not worth anything not even hate, maybe pity. Like a bucket that has no bottom. Useless.

One of the worst things about cheaters is that they continually waste your time. They are a trap. Like a giant time sink in your life. You need to repeatedly remind yourself that, the any time wasted on your ex is time you will never get back. And time you could spend on someone who will treat you better.


----------



## straightshooter

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, I want to hate her for what she has done to me and my boys.
> I want use that hate and anger to move on.
> I want to forget about her and the POSOM.
> How do I go about that?


Melrose,

The best revenge is to be happy yourself. Work on you and stop trying to figure out her. 
Nothing wrong with anger. Usually that follows denial and the "pick me game". 
Next step is detachment and ambivalence.

You will get there, but no if you keep trying to get inside her mind. If she was remorseful and sorry maybe trying to understand why or how might matter. I know you do not feel that way now, but she has made it actually easier for you. You are not in limbo like so many trying to do what ink so many cases comes to a false R that consumes you for years. 

No more D Days for you.


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## jsmart

Hating her just gives her power of you. Indifference should be your goal. To get to the point where she's just someone you used to know.

Let God, Karma, the Force rectify the wrongs. 

As for you, get busy living a fabulous life. Which after all, is the best revenge.


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## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, I want to hate her for what she has done to me and my boys.
> I want use that hate and anger to move on.
> I want to forget about her and the POSOM.
> How do I go about that?



You do that my lad by remembering you were in love with *who you "thought" she was, not who she really is*.

Keep reminding yourself how she's treated you, get mad it's healthy to turn that bile and anger in to motivation for moving on, she's always hidden herself from you, well this part anyway.
She's not broken, (well she is) but the more accurate term is - she is morally bankrupt, she isn't and in all likelihood never will be a safe partner. 

I don't hate my POS ex, I pity her because she has 50% of my kids and I'll always be connected to her. That sucks, but at the same time she gets a podium place to see me continually re build, make a real fist of the new me. 

I don't need to do that by buying a bigger house than her after the D or going on better holidays, I do that by building a stronger and more stable connection with my girls, by taking photos of all the times these last 7 months we've gone out, gone on holiday and had fun. Proof to them when their older that their pappy loves them, that he navigated the storm and took the lead when he's been abused. - And don't for one second think that what's not happened here isn't anything other than abuse my man!. Emotional and physical, emotional as WW is devoid of remorse, physical as in physically violated by being in an open marriage and sharing partners without consent.

You do it by taking a full root and branch assessment of your life, what's lacking, what I need to do, make the long and short term plans to achieve them goals. And for me (may not work for everyone) go out and knock boots with a few women and give yourself that ego boost to show you're a good catch who can entice the girls, just make it clear that it's nothing serious and your children are and always will be your priority.

You wont achieve all you desire immediately, I highly doubt you ever return to a full state of normality, but at the same time you come through the storm. You recover to a point when you say 
"Fcuk me, that was the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with and yeah I'm some strong son of a biitch for coming through that" because of that chaos you get a tough underbelly to deal with any **** life dishes out to you in future. 

That's my two penneth on the matter anyway mate, 7 months in from D day, long way to go, but it will and does get better, do the root and branch assessment and make a very small lean towards YOUR goals each day.

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## Melrose8888

Thanks to everyone who has responded over the past day or so, they are all helpful posts that hold valid points and useful tips on how to get through this dark patch.

I have to stop and think, D-day was only 2 months ago. I need to cut myself some slack on recovery. Of course I want to come out fighting fit, but I have to be realistic. This takes time.

It was all triggered by increased communication and further requests from the POS ex to 'come and see my new house' or 'we need to be able to talk' (about things other than the kids). I need to nip her perfect world scenario in the bud - but how to approach it within 180 rules?

Here is my brief email I propose to send, the final comms that aren't about my boys or the divorce. Builds are welcome:

_STBXW,

I actually wrote a long letter to you but, instead, I think it best summarised in the following.

When you chose to start an emotional relationship with another man, we were still married. When you chose to cross the line further, and it turned physical, we were still married. Thus, your infidelity choice resulted in, among other things; the end of our marriage, the end of you seeing our children every day, the end of our friendship.

Although I continue to be fully committed in communicating with you as part of co-parenting the boys and also to finalise our divorce amicably, please don’t expect me to accept invites to visit the new house or to be friends.

I never want to be friends with you.
I do not need a friend who has that character, one who is willing to be unfaithful to their partner.
Given the way we have ended up in this situation, you cannot, and will not, ‘have it all’.

As the mother of my boys, I wish you all the best and hope you find the complete happiness you seek,
Melrose_


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## Danny4133

That's good Melrose, IMO maybe a bit too polite, me, I'd include - 

Only someone with Stockholm Syndrome would consider being friends with their abuser, I'm pretty sure I'm not suffering from that issue, so have no desire. 

180 is hard when you have kids, I have to ignore 80 % of texts from STBX as it's all irrelevant babble, long and waffling stuff about the kids, most of it unnecessary and a blatant attempt to fish for a text back.....I don't.

Any attention you give POS EX (good or bad) is still attention to them, still shows that in some way they matter to you....we don't want to give them that boost, it took a good while to realise that firing bullets are great in the short term but YOU get the recoil. Only on rare occasion do I indulge myself, it's always a carefully prepared and well thought out come back and is usually the last word before I drive away.

Door step conversations on pick up and drop off are all one way with a "uh hmm" or a nod, I save my smiles and focus for my kids when greeting hello or goodbye.
Generic reply is "I'll consider and email you" or "email me as I have no appetite to engage" sometimes I have to be curt and shut her the fuuck down. 

Remember zero attention really riles them up, I know this through connections and it's epic when you do it right and they feel pi$$ed, do it until it becomes second nature.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks to everyone who has responded over the past day or so, they are all helpful posts that hold valid points and useful tips on how to get through this dark patch.
> 
> I have to stop and think, D-day was only 2 months ago. I need to cut myself some slack on recovery. Of course I want to come out fighting fit, but I have to be realistic. This takes time.
> 
> It was all triggered by increased communication and further requests from the POS ex to 'come and see my new house' or 'we need to be able to talk' (about things other than the kids). I need to nip her perfect world scenario in the bud - but how to approach it within 180 rules?
> 
> Here is my brief email I propose to send, the final comms that aren't about my boys or the divorce. Builds are welcome:
> 
> _STBXW,
> 
> I actually wrote a long letter to you but, instead, I think it best summarised in the following.
> 
> When you chose to start an emotional relationship with another man, we were still married. When you chose to cross the line further, and it turned physical, we were still married. Thus, your infidelity choice resulted in, among other things; the end of our marriage, the end of you seeing our children every day, the end of our friendship.
> 
> Although I continue to be fully committed in communicating with you as part of co-parenting the boys and also to finalise our divorce amicably, please don’t expect me to accept invites to visit the new house or to be friends.
> 
> I never want to be friends with you.
> I do not need a friend who has that character, one who is willing to be unfaithful to their partner.
> Given the way we have ended up in this situation, you cannot, and will not, ‘have it all’.
> 
> As the mother of my boys, I wish you all the best and hope you find the complete happiness you seek,
> Melrose_


This is good, think about this letter Melrose. What kind of person would treat someone like she did to you, and then want to be friends? By the way, they are all like this, they really have less understanding of the pain they have caused you than we total strangers on here have. We get it, and we have no history or kids with you for crying out loud. They don't and are not capable of getting it. They sleep well at night. This shows the depths of her emotional retardation. This is how you need to see your wife. She may be a nice person in other ways but she is just on an emotionally lower level. 

Again this means she is useless when it comes to the kind of relationship you were trying to create with her. She is Pergo, she is never going to be hardwood. Remind yourself of this fact when you start to romanticize your relationship. I contend that eventually the long lasting pain from the relationship will not be what she did to you but all the time you wasted on her. This is why moving on quickly is paramount.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Don't send it, M8. In some time, you will be able to write another and save it. These are all able to help you get this off your chest. In the end, you can delete them....or you may decide you have found the perfect email and send it. Just don't do it yet. 

I think, if you go back and read some of your thread, you have some posts about what you might do for yourself to move on. The suggestions range from you eating right to exercising, getting a few hobbies and making some speeches. Taking a class at the local community college or high school, might be interesting to some. We can't tell you exactly what to do, but only give suggestions. We don't know your financial state or the availability of free time or any of that. 

The idea is to do things that take your mind off of your problems and redirect it to you and fun, safe activities. 

You also can focus on your child. Do some things that will be fun for you two and figure out what he likes to do, eat, etc. Of course, you may know these now. Apologies, if you do. Tough to guess. 

You must make memories for you and your child. That is the point. New good memories will replace the old ones. You will slowly find you like what you are doing now. You will find yourself and a relationship with your child, you never knew you could have.

Get rid of those old things that remind you of her. Keep only what you have to keep. Put them in storage. Get new furniture. Paint your home. Buy new window dressings. Change the kitchen cabinets and the bathroom. Buy a new or new used car. Replace all you can. 

Get help from an interior decorator, or whomever you think you can trust, if you need help. Read books like Boundaries, No More Mister Nice Guy, When I Say No, I Feel Guilty, Holding On To Your N.U.T.S., and Awareness by Anthony De Mello. 

Work on you. Be a little selfish. Don't neglect your child, of course, but be a bit nice to yourself and get something you want. Reward yourself when you get through some difficulty. You don't have to purchase the moon, but you can do something small and nice for yourself. You would have done that when you were single. 

Do nice things for your child, too. Get new clothes that stay at your place and don't go to mum's. Lot's of things to do, if you think about it.


----------



## JohnA

It was perfect, send it! Yes just about everyone she shows will agree it is harsh, a great many will think "what did you exept!". Your reply is about how you feel and how it make you feel. 

So use the free medical care and get into IC to find out why you act the way you do sometimes and grow. First class you should take is cooking!!


----------



## TaDor

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks TaDor, sorry to hear your issues, especially with the booze involved.
> 
> I know that old life has gone but for the first time I can see how I could change, to allow R (albeit one that would clearly take years) to have a chance. Now, that is OK from my side, reality is, the ex is nowhere near considering R, and as you rightly point out, she herself is not acting with any remorse and affair continues but I wanted to see if it did appeal to me. It does but the conditions won't be right for a minimum of years, all the way to never. So, I press on with D but I guess, with keeping 180 going, the ex doesn't know that I even think like this. If she did, might she be less stubborn and consider it?!
> 
> I caught the affair very early (EA was going on for 3 months) but truly, I knew the night the PA started (she stayed an a hotel 10 miles away for 'work' on a Monday!!) and I called it the day after, only for her to deny it. It took a few more meets for me to get the evidence. So with that in mind (of course they PA with each other all the time now) but what women doesn't have history? At least I know hers, I know who he is and I'd know if she was genuinely ready to give it another go.


A few years? You won't care. Really. Currently, your STBX is deep in her affair. You need and will blow it up when it's legally safe for you to do so as you have discussed earlier.
Yout don't owe her any favors. So let say, 24 months from now - you get a phone call "can we talk?" but by then, you've gotten your body in better shape and you're dating/having NSA sex with women who are 10~15 years younger than your wife. I don't know your ages, but I'd guess you are about 37yrs old. As long as you're in good shape, picking up women in their early 20s is easy. And I support older women picking up younger men BTW. I know a few guys in their 60s who date/pick up women in their 20s.

So being realistic. You're EX would have spent 2 years destroying your family. You have two boys at 6 and 9+ years old who will have issues. (My 3yr old still have issues with mama being kicked out for only 3 & 8 weeks or so). You'd have a few more ladies under your belt by then, maybe even a girlfriend who is 27 - hot and in love with you. You're really going to just toss future GF away like trash? What kind of a person would you be if you did? By then, I doubt you will care and your EX-W will be ashamed to say a word and will just find another penis.

Caught it early? Families have been destroyed from a week-old EA/PA (I think such cheaters have major issues. Same as teachers who fall in love with their 14yr old students). In the states a month or so ago, a woman-cheater murdered her two children with a knife after her husband gave her divorce papers to sign. Cheaters **DON'T** think normally. I was catching on to my WW's EA within a week or two. But I did everything wrong for 7 weeks - before I ended up here. I can still remember the breakdown she had, when the EA was new and her brain was fighting that she was doing something wrong. But she wouldn't tell me and I didn't know. "okay, tell me when you can" - supportive. blah.

Between the time of your ww affair, today and until sometime in the future - you have no idea what is in her head. And in reality, we NEVER know whats in ANYONE's HEAD. I don't fool myself and think my wife is 100% safe. Nor anyone for that matter. But so-far, she has been doing great. Last spring, I'd pick up when things were not right... but was unsure of myself - and things exploded. I even tried to get here first for advice, but wasn't able to.

I wish you well on your desire... but work on yourself first. If it happens, it happens.



> All of this might well be irrelevant but it does help me take small steps forward, I have to consider R before I can reject it entirely.


I cannot fault you for that Melrose8888. Her affair is running full steam. She hasn't been exposed, the POSOM is not exposed... the fantasy continues. Her kids don't matter than much to her at this moment. You want her back, and I know that feeling.

In 4 weeks, it will be easier. 4 weeks after that, it will be easier still. Just don't jump back with her suddenly... like "Hey honey, lets do R and not do D." if you agree to that - you're being played.
I mean it. On our first face to face talk about *US* last May, in which I drove out for us to have dinner and talk. I said "I'm not going to stop child custody. You don't fight me on it and we get it over quickly" She said "okay". I do have primary rights to our son. How much? Like 90% me, 10% her.

I still have trauma from the affair. I still twitch and/or jerk when I am stressed or certain random thoughts hit those damaged neurons - even if they have nothing to do with the affair.

For myself, my heart... I love her so. And comparing OUR relationship to that of many others. I am very happy to be in R.
Otherwise, I'd be living the single life. Having sex with a new woman at least once a month, getting drunk on weekends, etc.


----------



## TaDor

SOme say send it, some don't. That's up to you. If you do, let it be the last.

I told my wife something like "I wish I didn't have a kid with you" at D-Day. Her reply was "You wish you didn't have <sons name>?"
"No. I wish I haven't wasted my time and had A KID WITH YOU, who deserves a much better mother."


----------



## jsmart

I agree with the others that it was so polite. Made me think of the Chevy Chase movie "European Vacation." The part of how the folks in the UK are so polite and proper even when they're getting screwed over.

Personally I wouldn't bother sending any letters. In her mindset she couldn't give 2 ****s what you think. The best thing you need to do is focus on living a good life. Put her in your rear view mirror. As you keep driving forward, the image gets smaller and smaller.


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----------



## Chaparral

Melrose8888 said:


> Yes, she does have character issues, she couldn't just leave me, she had to have someone else waiting, she couldn't be alone.
> 
> But I changed her character. I have to admit some of THAT blame, else I might pick someone else with 'good' character and make the same mistakes again and change her.
> 
> My ex was a pretty decent woman all in all (we both made mistakes, as we all do, in the lead up to way before her EA) and she can still be that decent woman again. So why wouldn't I consider it? Why should POSOM be the one to reap the benefits?


The Posom is reaping the benefits. The benefits of two women because you didn't have the stones to blow up the affair when you 
You first found out about it. You're reaping the harvest you sowed when you found out and left Posom 'a wife swinging in the wind for this whole period. Your correct in your assumptions about your character by not doing the right thing. Instead you played this in an attempt at your own personal gain instead of what's right for all involved.
Your wife simply sees a man who would cheat on his family as a better option. Let's see how this turns out if you ever actually expose the ba$tard that wants to take over your fatherly duties.


----------



## Melrose8888

2ntnuf said:


> Don't send it, M8. In some time, you will be able to write another and save it. These are all able to help you get this off your chest. In the end, you can delete them....or you may decide you have found the perfect email and send it. Just don't do it yet.
> 
> I think, if you go back and read some of your thread, you have some posts about what you might do for yourself to move on. The suggestions range from you eating right to exercising, getting a few hobbies and making some speeches. Taking a class at the local community college or high school, might be interesting to some. We can't tell you exactly what to do, but only give suggestions. We don't know your financial state or the availability of free time or any of that.
> 
> The idea is to do things that take your mind off of your problems and redirect it to you and fun, safe activities.
> 
> You also can focus on your child. Do some things that will be fun for you two and figure out what he likes to do, eat, etc. Of course, you may know these now. Apologies, if you do. Tough to guess.
> 
> You must make memories for you and your child. That is the point. New good memories will replace the old ones. You will slowly find you like what you are doing now. You will find yourself and a relationship with your child, you never knew you could have.
> 
> Get rid of those old things that remind you of her. Keep only what you have to keep. Put them in storage. Get new furniture. Paint your home. Buy new window dressings. Change the kitchen cabinets and the bathroom. Buy a new or new used car. Replace all you can.
> 
> Get help from an interior decorator, or whomever you think you can trust, if you need help. Read books like Boundaries, No More Mister Nice Guy, When I Say No, I Feel Guilty, Holding On To Your N.U.T.S., and Awareness by Anthony De Mello.
> 
> Work on you. Be a little selfish. Don't neglect your child, of course, but be a bit nice to yourself and get something you want. Reward yourself when you get through some difficulty. You don't have to purchase the moon, but you can do something small and nice for yourself. You would have done that when you were single.
> 
> Do nice things for your child, too. Get new clothes that stay at your place and don't go to mum's. Lot's of things to do, if you think about it.


Some great tips here and glad to say, I am progressing in these areas. Finances are stable for now but will become debt based post D and critical if anything major goes wrong with car, house, health. Deal with that if it comes.

Moving to 50% time with my boys will actually be a step back, I'd estimate time spent with them pre D-day to be 60/40 me. But I can now take them to mates for playdates or away to family, without having to fit into the POS ex weekly plan. But I agree, I can already see how better I am as a father in her absence and feel closer than ever to DS2.

Out for a few whiskies in central London, for International Scotch Day tomorrow, that will be a nice treat!


----------



## Melrose8888

TaDor said:


> A few years? You won't care. Really. Currently, your STBX is deep in her affair. You need and will blow it up when it's legally safe for you to do so as you have discussed earlier.
> Yout don't owe her any favors. So let say, 24 months from now - you get a phone call "can we talk?" but by then, you've gotten your body in better shape and you're dating/having NSA sex with women who are 10~15 years younger than your wife. I don't know your ages, but I'd guess you are about 37yrs old. As long as you're in good shape, picking up women in their early 20s is easy. And I support older women picking up younger men BTW. I know a few guys in their 60s who date/pick up women in their 20s.
> 
> So being realistic. You're EX would have spent 2 years destroying your family. You have two boys at 6 and 9+ years old who will have issues. (My 3yr old still have issues with mama being kicked out for only 3 & 8 weeks or so). You'd have a few more ladies under your belt by then, maybe even a girlfriend who is 27 - hot and in love with you. You're really going to just toss future GF away like trash? What kind of a person would you be if you did? By then, I doubt you will care and your EX-W will be ashamed to say a word and will just find another penis.
> 
> Caught it early? Families have been destroyed from a week-old EA/PA (I think such cheaters have major issues. Same as teachers who fall in love with their 14yr old students). In the states a month or so ago, a woman-cheater murdered her two children with a knife after her husband gave her divorce papers to sign. Cheaters **DON'T** think normally. I was catching on to my WW's EA within a week or two. But I did everything wrong for 7 weeks - before I ended up here. I can still remember the breakdown she had, when the EA was new and her brain was fighting that she was doing something wrong. But she wouldn't tell me and I didn't know. "okay, tell me when you can" - supportive. blah.
> 
> Between the time of your ww affair, today and until sometime in the future - you have no idea what is in her head. And in reality, we NEVER know whats in ANYONE's HEAD. I don't fool myself and think my wife is 100% safe. Nor anyone for that matter. But so-far, she has been doing great. Last spring, I'd pick up when things were not right... but was unsure of myself - and things exploded. I even tried to get here first for advice, but wasn't able to.
> 
> I wish you well on your desire... but work on yourself first. If it happens, it happens.
> 
> 
> I cannot fault you for that Melrose8888. Her affair is running full steam. She hasn't been exposed, the POSOM is not exposed... the fantasy continues. Her kids don't matter than much to her at this moment. You want her back, and I know that feeling.
> 
> In 4 weeks, it will be easier. 4 weeks after that, it will be easier still. Just don't jump back with her suddenly... like "Hey honey, lets do R and not do D." if you agree to that - you're being played.
> I mean it. On our first face to face talk about *US* last May, in which I drove out for us to have dinner and talk. I said "I'm not going to stop child custody. You don't fight me on it and we get it over quickly" She said "okay". I do have primary rights to our son. How much? Like 90% me, 10% her.
> 
> I still have trauma from the affair. I still twitch and/or jerk when I am stressed or certain random thoughts hit those damaged neurons - even if they have nothing to do with the affair.
> 
> For myself, my heart... I love her so. And comparing OUR relationship to that of many others. I am very happy to be in R.
> Otherwise, I'd be living the single life. Having sex with a new woman at least once a month, getting drunk on weekends, etc.


A lot of this resonates with me. Yep, I'm 38yo - NSA does appeal but I think I need to find the right channels to 'get that'! Can't imagine anything serious for months, years...

Oddly enough, catching it early and filing for D within 10 days, actually meant she pushed on with the PA quicker! That is probably a good thing, cause if I hadn't snooped, it would have been going on without me knowing.

Fair play to you for navigating the choppy waters of R. I like the idea of it for stability, my kids, finances but even today, I can see how I WILL be better off with someone else.

If I can deal with the triggers and the trauma better, I will be in an OK place.


----------



## Melrose8888

TaDor said:


> SOme say send it, some don't. That's up to you. If you do, let it be the last.
> 
> I told my wife something like "I wish I didn't have a kid with you" at D-Day. Her reply was "You wish you didn't have <sons name>?"
> "No. I wish I haven't wasted my time and had A KID WITH YOU, who deserves a much better mother."


No comms on this to the ex due to 180 in action but I have told friends and family the very same thing. I love my two boys but I wish I had children with someone who shared my life map and values. What a waste.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chaparral said:


> The Posom is reaping the benefits. The benefits of two women because you didn't have the stones to blow up the affair when you
> You first found out about it. You're reaping the harvest you sowed when you found out and left Posom 'a wife swinging in the wind for this whole period. Your correct in your assumptions about your character by not doing the right thing. Instead you played this in an attempt at your own personal gain instead of what's right for all involved.
> Your wife simply sees a man who would cheat on his family as a better option. Let's see how this turns out if you ever actually expose the ba$tard that wants to take over your fatherly duties.


Hi Chaparral - not sure of your back story but I have two small boys to think of. And that is all I do when deciding on actions and strategy on D; it's for my boys.

My balls, albeit rather large for other reasons right now (!), are firmly in place, ready for the right time. In fact, not due to lack of balls but the time might never be right, purely due to my mind-set at that time and whether I give a damn or not.

Blowing it up immediately on D-day, for example, would have resulted (among other things) in the loss of her job, a ruined Xmas for the boys and a less than straightforward divorce settlement but I know, from the texts etc, that it would have only pushed them closer together.

It matters not, I have considered R and know that I am better off by myself for now and someone new in the future.


----------



## ButtPunch

Don't send the letter. 

They never accomplish what you want.


----------



## bandit.45

Don't send her that letter. She doesn't give two squirts about your feelings. All it is going to do is prove to her that she still matters to you. All it will do is pad her ego. 

Don't go there.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... Sorry that you are here bro. I wrote a letter to my 1st love back in late 1990.

I never sent it. I re-wrote one six months later. About nine months after our last split, I received 

a birth announcement in the mailbox, from 1st love. The dates did not match so, I was fine.

I ran into her at a counter at a mini mart and she asked me to come by next day.... wanted to talk.

She was married at the time. I gave her the updated letter because IDGAF what she thought

or felt. She was stung badly but still wanted to sleep with me. FF about.... three years,

I'm divorced, let's sleep together. Denied. I was with someone. FF a few other and to, 2010....

she's married again, still wants to sleep with me but at that time, I was married. I showed my then W

what she posted, if I hadn't guess what happens if I kept it hush hush.

My W told her I am not chained to her, call if you want but I doubt he will respond.

She blocked me on FB LOL.... until she caught wind of my divorce in 2013. Yeah... all hows yousa doin baybee...

She even dropped by my house, I was divorced but seeing another girl, she got a hug, nothing more.

She brought JD and Scotch for me since I virtually wrote a paper for class, for her.

She learned I broke up with post-D g/f... made her move. Told me they were separated, living apart.

We had sex, 1st time in almost 25 years..... she was a soulless creature when I looked up at 

her... like a corpse. Granted she is a mega-hottie. But she is damaged, always was.

I just didn't see it when I was 17-18 y / o. But pop did.... and warned me. He was right.

I don't know for sure but I think pop was with a girl like her back in the 1960s. So..... he knew.

Today she still stalks me. I refused to see her anymore when she still posted pics of her H

and kids. Separated my arse! She made the choice to depart as my 1st love and since 

early 1991, she has paid for that.... and still is. We will never have a tomorrow. Yes we had sex but....

that meant nothing towards a re-capture. It re-affirmed the fact, we aren't teens anymore.

Melrose..... this is exactly what your STBXW will do with you, or try to. Get a D ASAP.....

cut ties, get custody set up. She will make more reaches for you in the future than a Roman bathhouse

on dime beer night. Trust me.... reading your thread was more of a flashback of my past


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Melrose..... Sorry that you are here bro. I wrote a letter to my 1st love back in late 1990.
> 
> I never sent it. I re-wrote one six months later. About nine months after our last split, I received
> 
> a birth announcement in the mailbox, from 1st love. The dates did not match so, I was fine.
> 
> I ran into her at a counter at a mini mart and she asked me to come by next day.... wanted to talk.
> 
> She was married at the time. I gave her the updated letter because IDGAF what she thought
> 
> or felt. She was stung badly but still wanted to sleep with me. FF about.... three years,
> 
> I'm divorced, let's sleep together. Denied. I was with someone. FF a few other and to, 2010....
> 
> she's married again, still wants to sleep with me but at that time, I was married. I showed my then W
> 
> what she posted, if I hadn't guess what happens if I kept it hush hush.
> 
> My W told her I am not chained to her, call if you want but I doubt he will respond.
> 
> She blocked me on FB LOL.... until she caught wind of my divorce in 2013. Yeah... all hows yousa doin baybee...
> 
> She even dropped by my house, I was divorced but seeing another girl, she got a hug, nothing more.
> 
> She brought JD and Scotch for me since I virtually wrote a paper for class, for her.
> 
> She learned I broke up with post-D g/f... made her move. Told me they were separated, living apart.
> 
> We had sex, 1st time in almost 25 years..... she was a soulless creature when I looked up at
> 
> her... like a corpse. Granted she is a mega-hottie. But she is damaged, always was.
> 
> I just didn't see it when I was 17-18 y / o. But pop did.... and warned me. He was right.
> 
> I don't know for sure but I think pop was with a girl like her back in the 1960s. So..... he knew.
> 
> Today she still stalks me. I refused to see her anymore when she still posted pics of her H
> 
> and kids. Separated my arse! She made the choice to depart as my 1st love and since
> 
> early 1991, she has paid for that.... and still is. We will never have a tomorrow. Yes we had sex but....
> 
> that meant nothing towards a re-capture. It re-affirmed the fact, we aren't teens anymore.
> 
> Melrose..... this is exactly what your STBXW will do with you, or try to. Get a D ASAP.....
> 
> cut ties, get custody set up. She will make more reaches for you in the future than a Roman bathhouse
> 
> on dime beer night. Trust me.... reading your thread was more of a flashback of my past


Hey Chuck, sorry to hear my story gave you a flashback.

I'm not sure I could cope with what happened to you. I need complete detachment, which in practice will be impossible given we have 2 young boys. But popping up after years to ask for stuff - no thanks. Hope you are in a good place now.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... just a flashback, not painful at all. I've always considered it funny she

still chases me. I will always be her friend since she had such a tormented childhood.... even

if she broke my heart in 1990 and 1991. You can't fully detach since you have kids.

You need to set your boundaries and ENFORCE them when ever they are crossed.

As a kid... I would ride my bike near a large intersection. Mom would tell me if I did it again,

she would whip my arse. I would do it again, and again. Mom would keep warning me

maybe 6-7 times before she whipped me. Pop.... would tell me the same thing, next time I did it,

he whipped my arse. Guess who I took more seriously.

When you become serious with her, she will take you seriously and respect your boundaries.

That will be critical for years to come due to you having to co-parent with her.


----------



## Danny4133

Chuck71 said:


> Melrose..... just a flashback, not painful at all. I've always considered it funny she
> 
> still chases me. I will always be her friend since she had such a tormented childhood.... even
> 
> if she broke my heart in 1990 and 1991. You can't fully detach since you have kids.
> 
> You need to set your boundaries and ENFORCE them when ever they are crossed.
> 
> As a kid... I would ride my bike near a large intersection. Mom would tell me if I did it again,
> 
> she would whip my arse. I would do it again, and again. Mom would keep warning me
> 
> maybe 6-7 times before she whipped me. Pop.... would tell me the same thing, next time I did it,
> 
> he whipped my arse. Guess who I took more seriously.
> 
> When you become serious with her, she will take you seriously and respect your boundaries.
> 
> That will be critical for years to come due to you having to co-parent with her.


Totally agree with this, those boundaries are because you respect yourself.
Consistency is the key here until it becomes second nature. Keep convo to the absolute bare bones and really consider "does that require a reply". 

Healing will be put in to the turbo zone when you do this, I'm down to a couple of sentences a month a 2 maybe 3 words tops at pick up and drop off. 

Once you master this it'll be like some Jedi Shizz, use the force Melrose :smthumbup:


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, I want to hate her for what she has done to me and my boys.
> I want use that hate and anger to move on.
> I want to forget about her and the POSOM.
> How do I go about that?


It becomes easier when you don't waste time and energy on the big emotions. I say big because love and hate are big and blinding. Most of us know or knew a person SO in love, they miss all of the warning signs and bad things happen. Same goes for people so fueled by hate, they miss the warning signs and bad things happen. 

I'm not saying it will be easy and you will reminisce, but when you focus on the kids, their future, your future and your own happiness it's funny how she will become an afterthought. It sounds silly and like a cliche, but the truth is live your life. Now, if you want to use some anger to fuel you go ahead, but keep it focused and directed. Never ever direct it at your wife or kids in person. Direct it at her and the POSOM's actions. Get as much custody as you can, get everything about her out of your living spaces, get your own accounts etc etc etc. Stay Angry about all of this crappy work you have to do to become indifferent. Hate is an ugly place and she doesn't deserve any head space you can use for yourself and your kids.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... Philly is spot on. We say "get to 50k feet and observe" because... if you are in the weeds of 

co-dependency, you are clouded, blinded, clueless. At 50k... you observe what she is doing,

and everything else.... without any emotion. Then you can make clear and concise choices,

without your heart playing a role. When my XW wanted to come back in 2013 and 2014....and

when my post-D live-in wanted to come back in 2015, they tried to play with my heart. Did my heart want

them back... in some ways yes but my head said "oh he!! F no," so... that was that.

Most men think rationally, most women think emotionally (most not ALL) but when a man is Co-D

heavily.... he too, thinks with emotions. To some degree every human is Co-D... to a point.

Some are 0.2%, some are 98%. Focus on you, your kids, your work, your recovery.

What were your hobbies before you got M?


----------



## Melrose8888

I have always been very emotional but my common sense plus gut feel outweigh and win out most of the time.

Hobbies were, are, always have been, playing football, golf, long distance running. Beer and whisky nights with friends, going to watch football. Cinema, films, researching trips abroad and providing financial advice / finding good deals for my family and mates.

All of these are obviously easier now, on the days I don't have my boys.

On that note, I've now had my boys 33 of the last 50 nights. This is a fair reflection of where they sit in my POS WW priorities at the moment. Suits me though, building a stronger bond.


----------



## 2ntnuf

> Most of us know or knew a person SO in love, they miss all of the warning signs and bad things happen.



That would be me. That's probably why I am so hard on you. I know how it hurts when you don't move on quickly. It will destroy your life. 

It looks like you have your hobbies. Now, you also have your son. Make a journal and write when he is with you and what you have done with him. You may need it, if you have to go to court.

Some anger is better than reminiscing about the good times. Falling backward is normal, but it will only prolong the pain. Use the anger to make some great changes in your life that will move you beyond this. Changes like, getting a better home, learning to benefit your career, becoming the father you wish you had been, or any other things that may come up for you.


----------



## Chuck71

Get with a few guys and have some whiskey. Talk about guy stuff, your ex g/fs (NOT your 

recent XW), soccer / World Cup, ask if they have holidayed anywhere off the beaten path.

Me... I would love to travel to Seychelles, Reunion Island, Pitcairn Island and Mariana Islands.

Yes I am a weird one LOL but.... research these places. You go solo or with friends to one,

take the kids on the other. It's not hard for guys to bond..... we have sports.

I've been a sportswriter for over 20 years.... if there's a sports bar nearby, I always have 

something to do. Staying busy is very important. It gets your focus off of your pathetic STBXW


----------



## Melrose8888

Ugh, saw POSOM and POS WW driving round town today. Felt like a kick in the guts.

Words of advice on what to tell myself when this happens?

Need to detach, detach, detach...


----------



## 2ntnuf

You have to learn to pity her. Find those reasons and you are there. It's easier when you are moving forward with your life. In time, you will find out things that she did that disgust and revolt you. You will not hate her for those, but you will pity her for being so stupid. You will also comfort yourself with the knowledge that you couldn't have known she was like that. If you did, you would not have married her. You will then want to comfort yourself for being tricked and not knowing. 

You will find forgiveness for yourself. 

This was in her. She just found the right excuse to bring it out. She could have easily done it any time. It took her a while to justify it in her mind, so she could blame it all on you. 

That's all fantasy. She had to do that to keep her sanity.


----------



## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> I have always been very emotional but my common sense plus gut feel outweigh and win out most of the time.
> 
> Hobbies were, are, always have been, playing football, golf,* long distance running. Beer and whisky* nights with friends, going to watch football. Cinema, films, researching trips abroad and providing financial advice / finding good deals for my family and mates.
> 
> All of these are obviously easier now, on the days I don't have my boys.
> 
> On that note, I've now had my boys 33 of the last 50 nights. This is a fair reflection of where they sit in my POS WW priorities at the moment. Suits me though, building a stronger bond.


On THIS...bolded above, above my fur collar.

Back in the day, on an un-named foreign military base, my Army buddies and myself were drinking beer and some whiskey. We had been drinking for hours.

I really cannot drink much but that day I put down about 6 beers and a couple of shots.

There were a couple of running fanatics in that barracks and I asked everyone how about us all going for a run?

They laughed their asses off. They told me it was ten below outside and it was snowing and blowing to beat all hell.

I said, I was going and anyone who did not join me was a puzzy. 

One stalwart friend called me on it and said I was bluffing.

I put on my running clothes [about 25 layers!], laced up my running shoes and said, "Let's go!"

My friend, not wanting to back out, got his gear on and followed me down the road. We got a mile out and he turned around and said he had enough and was going back in. 

I yelled "Puzzy" and kept going. I came back an hour later totally iced over, from head to foot. My face covering Balaclava was solid ice.

The damn beer in my belly was never an issue, though it certainly slowed me down. I made one very long piss-stop and yellowed a one-acre plot.

If I tried that today, I would not make it a hundred yards.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Ugh, saw POSOM and POS WW driving round town today. Felt like a kick in the guts.
> 
> Words of advice on what to tell myself when this happens?
> 
> Need to detach, detach, detach...


She's HIS problem now. Anytime a guy dates a WW.... he knows good and well she will 

cheat on him too. Give it a few months.... they'll have commitment issues LOL

Is the POSOM married?


----------



## Melrose8888

2ntnuf said:


> You have to learn to pity her. Find those reasons and you are there. It's easier when you are moving forward with your life. In time, you will find out things that she did that disgust and revolt you. You will not hate her for those, but you will pity her for being so stupid. You will also comfort yourself with the knowledge that you couldn't have known she was like that. If you did, you would not have married her. You will then want to comfort yourself for being tricked and not knowing.
> 
> You will find forgiveness for yourself.
> 
> This was in her. She just found the right excuse to bring it out. She could have easily done it any time. It took her a while to justify it in her mind, so she could blame it all on you.
> 
> That's all fantasy. She had to do that to keep her sanity.


Thanks for immediate advice, it's a mindshift required to move to pity. I guess I am just jealous but must remember she is damaged goods.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> She's HIS problem now. Anytime a guy dates a WW.... he knows good and well she will
> 
> cheat on him too. Give it a few months.... they'll have commitment issues LOL
> 
> Is the POSOM married?


They are both married, both with 2 kids, both work together and both pieces of dog turd. Perhaps the world should be thankful they've paired up!!

But they are 'soul mates'. Nothing could possibly go wrong....!!!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> They are both married, both with 2 kids, both work together and both pieces of dog turd. Perhaps the world should be thankful they've paired up!!
> 
> But they are 'soul mates'. Nothing could possibly go wrong....!!!


Have you informed the POSOM's wife yet? 

Maybe you and the BW should go driving too.

Have you informed their work about their escapade?

Soul mates my arse LOL .... they're simple **** buddies.


*{Moderator Note: I spelled out the profanity. Please follow forum rules in regards to the profanity filter.

8. Filter Bypass/Obscenity: A profanity filter is in place and any attempts to bypass it are forbidden. You MAY type words that are filtered, as long as they are not abusive towards other quests or violate any other rules; however, you must allow the filter to do its job. Do NOT try to filter the word yourself and do not try to use creative spelling to bypass the profanity filter. Also, posting images of videos of obscene gestures, linking to obscene web sites, posting obscene or graphic descriptions of a decidedly adult nature, and violating a standard of decent behavior is not allowed.

February 21st is the deadline for full enforcement of the measure.

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----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Have you informed the POSOM's wife yet?
> 
> Maybe you and the BW should go driving too.
> 
> Have you informed their work about their escapade?
> 
> Soul mates my arse LOL .... they're simple **** buddies.


Ha! Think BW is likely to be at least 10yrs older than me!

Waiting for seal on financial order (est 7 weeks to go) before informing all parties. Any earlier, my son's will be financially worse off and have to move out of our home, she might lose job, so financially weaker and BW might go ape sh1t and turn on anyone involved. Not needed.

I've read all the texts, they are obsessed with each other. 'it hurts when I think how we might not have met', 'if the motorway swallows me tonight, remember I loved you always', 'there comes a time in your life when you know you just have to be with someone', 'if we are together from now until death, the nights together won't be enough'. Etc etc...

He helped her move in to her rented and even paid for half the stuff in it, as well building my two sons furniture...


*{Moderator Note: I spelled out the profanity. Please follow forum rules in regards to the profanity filter.

8. Filter Bypass/Obscenity: A profanity filter is in place and any attempts to bypass it are forbidden. You MAY type words that are filtered, as long as they are not abusive towards other quests or violate any other rules; however, you must allow the filter to do its job. Do NOT try to filter the word yourself and do not try to use creative spelling to bypass the profanity filter. Also, posting images of videos of obscene gestures, linking to obscene web sites, posting obscene or graphic descriptions of a decidedly adult nature, and violating a standard of decent behavior is not allowed.

February 21st is the deadline for full enforcement of the measure.

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----------



## Danny4133

Even EL James knows no happy ending will be forecast for these bastards.

That's why Melrose it's so crucial you put the effort in to regain stability and routine asap.
It's crucial because she will in all likely hood crash at some point, a month, a year, two.

Problem is your kids will feel the reverberations of this, I'm spurred on to do this work, to complete the D, drag her through the process she has no appetite for to get to that point as fast as possible thus securing the foundation. When things go wrong kids remember, I'm not talking about the here and now, yes that's bad, but lala land gives off a powerful smoke that has the power to engulf and dupe kids too.

Things will go to sh!!t for her in the future, that's where a strong and stable parent puts themselves in the zone. Be the reassurance them kids need, over love them, tell them you love them, hug kiss and hold them and tell them you'll always be there for them.

This will only strengthen and lock in the bond, WW focus is on POS, that's the gods honest truth, do the work mate and you will be and remain a beacon for them.

I know you'll be fine pal, it's that old cliche.......time, but time isn't your enemy if you use it to recover, work through the sh!tty time your dealing with, invite it in and sit with it until your ready to see it out the door. Don't deny its existence, accept that that's how it will be for a good while. That's how best you deal with it.

Know that this month your better than last and will be better again next


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## 2ntnuf

She's deep in infatuation and lurv. She will fight for him like a wounded tiger defending her cubs. You are right to wait. In time, she won't feel so putridly romantic. 

She will see that he has faults. We all do. Will those faults bother her? Yes. Will she cheat on him? I doubt it, because he has money. She will likely use him and make him feel like he can't do enough for her. All the while, he will be spending his hard earned income to keep her from leaving him and ruining his reputation. 

Remember, she knows more than you about what went on. He will have to watch what he does. 

None of this will matter. You will be stronger and have moved on to a happier life. You have the will. There is a way. You just have to keep at it.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Ugh, saw POSOM and POS WW driving round town today. Felt like a kick in the guts.
> 
> Words of advice on what to tell myself when this happens?
> 
> Need to detach, detach, detach...


 @Melrose8888 yep. Been there, done that. And yes, it hurts like hell.

You just have to try to get through it. Calming, relaxing breathing, might help.


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## Marc878

The only thing you have control over is you.

The hardest 18o you can pull!!!!!!!!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... I understand your objective and find it the right choice. BUT... in the meantime...

set up all your ducks, write out what you are going to do in detail. Who will you expose to first, 2nd, etc.

You know how she will re-act, just lay the traps and she will walk right into each one,

on her own. The best thing to happen to the POSOM is for him to be drained dry by your WW.

Let him be her walking ATM. But... keep in mind, that will be taking food off of his W and kids'

table. Those three are innocent bystanders. His W deserves to know. If she discovered their

fling before you, you would want her to tell you.

Use this time to be precise, calculating, and devious.... y'know just like she did when 

she hid the affair from you. 

Just think..... in the not too distant future.... your WW / STBXW will be listening to songs like this......


----------



## turnera

I would try to look at her and feel sorry for her. Because she WILL suffer for this one day.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I have to say that reading those lovey-dovey teenage texts made me more dubious about their long-term future together. This is more of a midlife-crisis infatuation than anything of substance. But that's neither here nor there; you should continue on your present course and let the chips fall where they may.


----------



## Melrose8888

Tatsuhiko said:


> I have to say that reading those lovey-dovey teenage texts made me more dubious about their long-term future together. This is more of a midlife-crisis infatuation than anything of substance. But that's neither here nor there; you should continue on your present course and let the chips fall where they may.


Pretty sure it is a MLC but she's a stubborn mule, so it could take years...As you say, not my concern.
Happiness is within me, just need to give it the space to grow without jealousy and resentment taking over.


----------



## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> They are both married, both with 2 kids, both work together and both pieces of dog turd. Perhaps the world should be thankful they've paired up!!
> 
> But they are 'soul mates'. Nothing could possibly go wrong....!!!



This reminds me of two peas in a pod. Two entities that look alike. A man and his dog. A women and her cat

When you are really alike as be two magnets, then your pluses and and your negatives form the tightest bond. 

But when there are mostly negatives in these two defective magnets, then repelling is coming. Down the cliff to the bottom shore line..and a 300 ft drop to sea bottom.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Pretty sure* it is a MLC* but she's a *stubborn mule*, so it could take years...As you say, not my concern.
> Happiness is within me, just need to give it the space to grow without jealousy and resentment taking over.


I'm not a physician... but I have always seen MLC as a pizz poor excuse for doing schit.

When you are unhappy with your life... that precipitates a MLC? -BS

My XW was a stubborn mule too.... until she realized I had moved on.

Then she was pride goeth before the fall.


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, I did send the email to her and she responded:

_POS STBXW,

When you chose to start an emotional relationship with another man, we were still married. When you chose to cross the line further, and it turned physical, we were still married. Thus, your infidelity choice resulted in, among many other things; the end of our marriage, the end of you seeing our children every day, the end of our friendship.

Although I continue to be fully committed in communicating with you as part of co-parenting the boys and also to finalise our divorce amicably, please don’t expect me to accept invites to visit the new house or to be friends.

I never want to be friends with you.
I do not need a friend who has that character, an abuser, one who is willing to be unfaithful to their partner.
Given the way we have ended up in this situation, you cannot, and will not, ‘have it all’.

As the mother of my boys, I wish you all the best and hope you find the complete happiness you seek,
Melrose
_

Hi,

There are certainly some strong words here, which took me a little by surprise compared to some previous messages, but I understand where you are. I only offered the friendship hand because I thought it would be better for everyone, but if that’s not what you want, I will accept that.

I am certainly not trying to ‘have it all’ but was simply trying to get to a better relationship with you, as I thought that would help us and the children.

I honestly hope that you will, eventually, also find true happiness.

POS STBXW​


----------



## manfromlamancha

_Hi,

There are certainly some strong words here, which took me a little by surprise compared to some previous messages, but I understand where you are. I only offered the friendship hand because I thought it would be better for everyone, but if that’s not what you want, I will accept that.

I am certainly not trying to ‘have it all’ but was simply trying to get to a better relationship with you, as I thought that would help us and the children.

I honestly hope that you will, eventually, also find true happiness.

POS STBXW_

Some interesting points to note:

She sees this as "stronger" words than your previous messages - you were pulling your punches before and being too nice. I think that your message was too mild!

"I only offered the friendship hand" - she offered!!!! She still thinks she is in control of things and didn't really want friendship but thought it would be good for everyone!?!?!? What a shameless low-life!

And she hopes that you ALSO will find true happiness implying that she has found true happiness with dipsh!t.

I would almost be tempted to reply:

So you didn't really want friendship but offered it because it might be good for everyone. I already knew this. One of your character traits that I have recently discovered.

And the biggest joke is that YOU THINK YOU HAVE FOUND TRUE HAPPINESS !?!?!? WITH YOUR BOSS WHO PAID YOU FOR SEX !?!?!?! Wow!


----------



## farsidejunky

Don't reply to it.

Let it go. The more you focus on this, the more stunted your healing.


----------



## ButtPunch

Never send the letter.....lesson learned again


----------



## Melrose8888

I sent it for me. Her requests and invitations were driving me mad. Now she knows.

Previous messages (in last 4 weeks) have only been about divorce and kids, so are polite and to the point. I will continue to be polite in those comms. There will be no more comms on any other topic.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> I sent it for me. Her requests and invitations were driving me mad. Now she knows.
> 
> Previous messages (in last 4 weeks) have only been about divorce and kids, so are polite and to the point. I will continue to be polite in those comms. There will be no more comms on any other topic.


.


----------



## Chuck71

farsidejunky said:


> Don't reply to it.
> 
> Let it go. The more you focus on this, the more stunted your healing.


He reminds me of Unbe


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> He reminds me of Unbe


Good call. What say you, @unbe?


----------



## Evinrude58

What you're going through, and the things you're doing, are all things that when you're over this ****, you'll say to yourself/-- I wish I hadn't done that.
Your wife is a horrible, horrible person.

There's lots of women like her/-- they love you one minute, then cold as a wedge the next and are "in love" with someone brine else.

Know it won't last Melrose. She supposedly loved YOU once. Selfish, narcissistic trash like this dont know what love is. She will screw over this rich guy just like she's done you. He'll be standing around with empty hands and empty bank account, while his own kids hate him, and your ex will be long gone with the next "love".
Even if she stays with rich boy, she will only do it for his money and she will cheat on him,too.

You will see one day that the He was taking care of you by removing this festering sore from your life.
Hurts now, though. And for that, I hope you know we all feel your pain.


----------



## Satya

Melrose8888 said:


> I sent it for me. Her requests and invitations were driving me mad. Now she knows.
> 
> Previous messages (in last 4 weeks) have only been about divorce and kids, so are polite and to the point. I will continue to be polite in those comms. There will be no more comms on any other topic.


I had to take a similar route with my ex H. Our correspondence had been me primarily acting like I had wounded bird syndrome and he wanted to stay friends. He was not amused once I finally found my lady balls and told him in the most diplomatic, classy fashion I knew how to leave me alone.

Good on you for sticking by your values.

Now keep the rest to strictly business.


----------



## Melrose8888

Satya said:


> I had to take a similar route with my ex H. Our correspondence had been me primarily acting like I had wounded bird syndrome and he wanted to stay friends. He was not amused once I finally found my lady balls and told him in the most diplomatic, classy fashion I knew how to leave me alone.
> 
> Good on you for sticking by your values.
> 
> Now keep the rest to strictly business.


Shame she didn't value my friendship or seeing her 2 boys 100% of the time, as much as her 'happiness' with the POSOM.

Think I know how that balance will work out in the long run...

What relationship do you have with your ex H now then, Satya? Any contact at all?

Meanwhile, in UK divorce land, with our crazy laws, a WW was refused a Divorce:

Woman appeals against divorce refusal - BBC News


----------



## Chuck71

Evinrude58 said:


> What you're going through, and the things you're doing, are all things that when you're over this ****, you'll say to yourself/-- I wish I hadn't done that.
> Your wife is a horrible, horrible person.
> 
> There's lots of women like her/-- they love you one minute, then cold as a wedge the next and are "in love" with someone brine else.
> 
> Know it won't last Melrose. She supposedly loved YOU once. Selfish, narcissistic trash like this dont know what love is. She will screw over this rich guy just like she's done you. He'll be standing around with empty hands and empty bank account, while his own kids hate him, and your ex will be long gone with the next "love".
> Even if she stays with rich boy, she will only do it for his money and she will cheat on him,too.
> 
> You will see one day that the He was taking care of you by removing this festering sore from your life.
> Hurts now, though. And for that, I hope you know we all feel your pain.


Veteran testimony.


----------



## Chuck71

Satya said:


> I had to take a similar route with my ex H. Our correspondence had been me primarily acting like I had wounded bird syndrome and he wanted to stay friends. He was not amused once I finally found my *lady balls* and told him in the most diplomatic, classy fashion I knew how to leave me alone.
> 
> Good on you for sticking by your values.
> 
> Now keep the rest to strictly business.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Love it!


----------



## Chuck71

Chuck71 said:


> Have you informed the POSOM's wife yet?
> 
> Maybe you and the BW should go driving too.
> 
> Have you informed their work about their escapade?
> 
> Soul mates my arse LOL .... they're simple **** buddies.
> 
> 
> *{Moderator Note: I spelled out the profanity. Please follow forum rules in regards to the profanity filter.
> 
> 8. Filter Bypass/Obscenity: A profanity filter is in place and any attempts to bypass it are forbidden. You MAY type words that are filtered, as long as they are not abusive towards other quests or violate any other rules; however, you must allow the filter to do its job. Do NOT try to filter the word yourself and do not try to use creative spelling to bypass the profanity filter. Also, posting images of videos of obscene gestures, linking to obscene web sites, posting obscene or graphic descriptions of a decidedly adult nature, and violating a standard of decent behavior is not allowed.
> 
> February 21st is the deadline for full enforcement of the measure.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/350914-posting-guidelines-forum-rules-2016-a.html }*


Specific elaboration would be conducive.....

ETA: None needed.... I saw the others


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, I did send the email to her and she responded:
> 
> _POS STBXW,
> 
> When you chose to start an emotional relationship with another man, we were still married. When you chose to cross the line further, and it turned physical, we were still married. Thus, your infidelity choice resulted in, among many other things; the end of our marriage, the end of you seeing our children every day, the end of our friendship.
> 
> Although I continue to be fully committed in communicating with you as part of co-parenting the boys and also to finalise our divorce amicably, please don’t expect me to accept invites to visit the new house or to be friends.
> 
> I never want to be friends with you.
> I do not need a friend who has that character, an abuser, one who is willing to be unfaithful to their partner.
> Given the way we have ended up in this situation, you cannot, and will not, ‘have it all’.
> 
> As the mother of my boys, I wish you all the best and hope you find the complete happiness you seek,
> Melrose
> _
> 
> Hi,
> 
> There are certainly some strong words here, which took me a little by surprise compared to some previous messages, but I understand where you are. I only offered the friendship hand because I thought it would be better for everyone, but if that’s not what you want, I will accept that.
> 
> I am certainly not trying to ‘have it all’ but was simply trying to get to a better relationship with you, as I thought that would help us and the children.
> 
> I honestly hope that you will, eventually, also find true happiness.
> 
> POS STBXW​


Nice job! You've set your boundaries now it's time to enforce them. Sounds like it was time. Mr Nice Guys just get walked on. She liked the idea of you supposedly accepting her adultery on good terms. Cut it out now.

Any pickups and or drop offs should be @ 5 minutes. Under the circumstances you don't owe her any chit chat sessions. Hi, bye. Why feel bad about this? She's screwing another man for gods sake. 

Everything should be civil but very short. If anything at all. A friend of mine never speaks. He's done a hard 180 and said its worked wonders for him. You can and should do the same.


----------



## bandit.45

There are a lot of cheaters who leave their respective spouses to marry each other, and they go on to have successful marriages. 

Melrose, there is no guarantee your WW and her OM will be miserable together. 

You have to accept that people are just cruel and selfish, and that causes them to victimize others. You were victimized, and it is not fair, but that is life. I'm sorry my friend, but don't hold out hope for karma. Move on with your life, be the best dad you can be, and hopefully fate will bring a new and much more worthy woman into your life.


----------



## Chuck71

But I just can't see OM divorcing his wife. Now if he were single.... different story.

But even then... they rarely last.


----------



## Tron

--


----------



## Tron

Chuck71 said:


> .


Chuck,

HA! That's a nice photo of bannister rails. I'm thinking that was supposed to be a load of 2x4's... 

Try this one. Plywood plus 2x4's with a few 4x4's thrown in. Delivers the message pretty well.


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## Chuck71

At this rate, I'll drop the Redwood Forest on him next time.


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## Melrose8888

bandit.45 said:


> There are a lot of cheaters who leave their respective spouses to marry each other, and they go on to have successful marriages.
> 
> Melrose, there is no guarantee your WW and her OM will be miserable together.
> 
> You have to accept that people are just cruel and selfish, and that causes them to victimize others. You were victimized, and it is not fair, but that is life. I'm sorry my friend, but don't hold out hope for karma. Move on with your life, be the best dad you can be, and hopefully fate will bring a new and much more worthy woman into your life.


I have always fully expected them to stay together LT.

Had a quick fb snoop, first in a while, WW is telling friends that he has told his wife and kids about her (tho I doubt he admitted an affair), they are divorcing and selling their family home.

Plus he's sending WW flowers, messages on national radio, gifts etc and she is loving how fast her life is moving.

Of course, all this information is interesting but doesn't really change my stance. If anything, it shows I need to continue to concentrate on my recovery.


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## phillybeffandswiss

See, that letter? Always remember how she put it on you. She says your words are harsh, but she offered friendship for the kids and "us." Interesting, she had an affair and you are using harsh words. I thought that was why you were married for the "us" portion of the relationship. I wouldn't have sent it because letters tend to resurface and be used to hurt people. Still, now you have confirmation she is long past being rational.

Stop following or worrying, it isn't your job anymore. Long term, short term, today, tomorrow who cares? It doesn't matter. Strengthen yourself.


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## SofaKingWeToddId

For your own sanity, you should stop snooping. It will only cause you pain. Plus if she finds out it could cause legal issues with your divorce.


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## farsidejunky

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> For your own sanity, you should stop snooping. It will only cause you pain. Plus if she finds out it could cause legal issues with your divorce.


Yep.

It is called "Pain Shopping".


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## Melrose8888

farsidejunky said:


> Yep.
> 
> It is called "Pain Shopping".


I convinced myself it was to gather Intel for the divorce but you and sofa... are right, it must stop.


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## Melrose8888

Here's an interesting one 

We all know about trickle truth.

What about trickle exposure?

Bare in mind my aim is amicable divorce with zero impact on my 2 boys.

I've been telling her family and friends, one by one, in my personal priority order, over the past few weeks. All reactions so far have been disbelief (if you believe them..) or very sympathetic.

I'm now on to non mutual (I.e. her friends), to see their reaction.

Yes, yes, I know, who cares, detach, move on, 180...But. It's interesting, right?


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## Marc878

IMO exposure gets you a form of closure. Why not?


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## Marc878

Now that you've informed her of your expectations of limited contact do a hard 180.

That will get you where you need to be


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## 2ntnuf

No, it's lethal to your recovery. Most of them know. Those who don't, won't be all that surprised. They will justify her to others and themselves.

Get that damn divorce. Get out there and find another woman to soothe your pain for a short time. Then, find another. Each time, learn more and more about yourself and others. 

Take care of your responsibilities. The faster you move on to another woman without all this in every conversation, the faster you will heal. 

Time to see a counselor, M8. You need to get some help with your grief. 

I'm not joking.


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## Melrose8888

Most of them know HER side of the story.

But if that is what they believe then I have no problem in accepting I'll never speak to them again.

This IS all for me, my recovery. I'm enjoying it actually. Learning tons.

I'm in IC, it's going well. I don't stop talking.

But I do agree, short term woman after short term woman. I need a lay.


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## Chuck71

Melrose..... When my D went down, all of my XWs friends stopped talking to me. I understood....

they don't want to look like they're taking sides but, they were. After it was over, the D, maybe

several months after, I ran into a few. A few acted like I had ebola and "took off" but a few others,

smiled, greeted, caught up but I NEVER brought up the D. Way I see it, I don't give a damn

what they were told... a true friend for the last 15 years would come to me, regurgitate said 

accusations and, I can verify or deny them. Then it is up to them, to decide what to and not to

believe. You are NOT responsible for what others think of you if you are doing what you think is 

best for you and your boys well-being.


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## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Melrose..... When my D went down, all of my XWs friends stopped talking to me. I understood....
> 
> they don't want to look like they're taking sides but, they were. After it was over, the D, maybe
> 
> several months after, I ran into a few. A few acted like I had ebola and "took off" but a few others,
> 
> smiled, greeted, caught up but I NEVER brought up the D. Way I see it, I don't give a damn
> 
> what they were told... a true friend for the last 15 years would come to me, regurgitate said
> 
> accusations and, I can verify or deny them. Then it is up to them, to decide what to and not to
> 
> believe. You are NOT responsible for what others think of you if you are doing what you think is
> 
> best for you and your boys well-being.


Thanks Chuck. You do find out a lot about who really is a friend at times like these.

In fairness, lots of people don't care either way after the initial drama. They just return to their life, their problems and don't even give a second thought. Which is why I feel infidelity is so widely accepted these days. Noone who isn't directly impacted, gives 2 hoots about what happened LT.


----------



## MovingFrwrd

Agreed on what Chuck said. None of the friends we had when we were friends with the 'other couples' have asked either my wife or I any questions. In fact, they all dropped off the face of the earth. It was sad, as I did like a few of the other couples, but I've reached the point where I could give a rats ass about them or what they think.

I wanted to tell them all for quite some time, but in the end after I reviewed my motives with my counselor, it was just to feed my own ego and pain - totally and understandably human - but unnecessary. I'm glad I let it go. Now if I get asked, my standard answer would be 'Circumstances dictated that the friendship ended.' No more. They can ask the other couples why.

You hit the nail on the head as well with your own observations. You find that you are the only one who carries the level of anger and pain, and somehow expect others to feel the same - but they don't. Close friends and family may have a level of empathy and understanding, but in the end it's really all about how you can deal with it.

If any friends ask, and they really want the truth to support you (not to gossip with) you may find the need to tell them the whole truth. But don't go feeding a gossip mill just to make yourself feel better. That comes from within, not from taking it out on others.


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## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks Chuck. You do find out a lot about who really is a friend at times like these.
> 
> In fairness, lots of people don't care either way after the initial drama. They just return to their life, their problems and don't even give a second thought. Which is why I feel infidelity is so widely accepted these days. Noone who isn't directly impacted, gives 2 hoots about what happened LT.


Melrose.... as sad as it is to say, most of your friends will not give two schits about what happened

outside of the fact it is gossip. -My gosh I can't believe they are getting D- And back to their daily

lives. Most don't care.... until it happens to them. When I ended things with DC back in 

November, I had my Hangover Crew, TAM and former TAM friends to bounce my decisions off of.

Even though I knew I was doing the right thing.... you always want a 2nd opinion.

I am well know to be bull headed so that's why I always bounce my intent off others.

Sometimes you have to let go of friendships you thought would last a lifetime. Last year I cut ties 

with my HS running buddy and we were really tight, 25 years. Same thing with a female friend

I knew for 25 years. They never brought positivity anymore, only their self interest and negativity. 

Who needs that?

When my XW did come back "home" after being away three years, of course she wanted us to

"catch up." My mother was in the final stages of cancer and we did talk. One thing I just threw out 

there was, "I have no idea why xxxx, xxxx,xxxx, xxxx, and xxxx stop and run away from me

anytime they see me. Did you tell them a load of crap when we were getting D?"

Silence...... -Why no Chuck, you know I wouldn't do that- I looked at her and could tell

she was lying. Every time she lies about something her nose twitches and she blinks fast.

But I'm sure it made for tons of gossip about me and how much of an arse I was in 2012-13.

1% of me thought about acting as if we are thinking of getting back together just to see her squirm

when all the people she lied to about me come asking -but didn't you say Chuck ............ -

All I did was hold her accountable. During the D, when she kept getting hit with NSF charges

because I refused to do the household finance (now I do mine, you do yours),she of course 

attempted to lash out at me. "I see things from an entirely different angle" and I left the room.

Course.... Chuck does like to throw it back at people who try to anger dump on him.

I cranked up the stereo and played....... (btw HUGE Heart fan)


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

What will be interesting is your wife's reaction when it gets back to her you are telling people what happened.

Be careful though because even if you warn them to stay silent, somebody will eventually ask her questions or tell her what you are doing. Cheaters, gender need not matter, HATE the light of day and some tend to react badly. Yes, even the ones who successfully reconcile. Be prepared for some ugly blow back if you aren't careful.

Your revelation does add an interesting context to the letter you sent and her reaction.


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## Chuck71

phillybeffandswiss said:


> What will be interesting is your wife's reaction when it gets back to her you are telling people what happened.
> 
> Be careful though because even if you warn them to stay silent, somebody will eventually ask her questions or tell her what you are doing. Cheaters, gender need not matter, HATE the light of day and some tend to react badly. Yes, even the ones who successfully reconcile. Be prepared for some ugly blow back if you aren't careful.
> 
> Your revelation does add an interesting context to the letter you sent and her reaction.


Think....... the allegory of Plato and The Cave


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## phillybeffandswiss

Chuck71 said:


> Think....... the allegory of Plato and The Cave


Can't. He wants "amicable" and her being prisoner to her own false reality will not diminish her anger, it'll make it worse. I'm telling him to be prepared if her false reality is shattered. We see it in the world everyday, some people do not like reality and react poorly.


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## Chuck71

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Can't. He wants "amicable" and her being prisoner to her own false reality will not diminish her anger, it'll make it worse. I'm telling him to be prepared if her false reality is shattered. We see it in the world everyday, some people do not like reality and react poorly.


I totally agree! The Cave was for Melrose. How people see shadows and are unable to

see the light they haven't seen in so long. I wish he could expose sooner but the 

rationale he presented was a solid reason not to, at this time.


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## 2ntnuf

It works for his wife, too. She is in a world of her own. Eventually, she will be exposed to what is reality. This won't sit well with her and she will lash out, preferring the dark cave to the blindness of those who have seen the sunlight and cherish it. 

The reality of the exposure will force her to fear for her sanity and try to protect the false reality she knows. 

M8 is the former prisoner who was dragged into the light. He does not like it, but is slowly going to adjust to the light of day. He may want to free her, but she won't react well. 

Better to let her live her reality than to drag her into the light.


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## Melrose8888

I like The Cave analogy. In this case, however, it will all work out for them. It won't be straightforward and there will be issues of trust and respect and the usual life issues down the line. But she's got too much 'to lose' for it not to work out. Whether that balance will make her happier? Well, again, as long as the boys are happy, then I cannot ask for much more.

I forgot to mention in last post, the OM BW has, apparently, already met someone else too. So that's 3 out of 4 of 'us' happy in new relationships. That leaves me, taking it steady, taking stock and building slowly. Have often felt like the odd one out, but this time, it feels right to be that one.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> I like The Cave analogy. In this case, however, it will all work out for them. It won't be straightforward and there will be issues of trust and respect and the usual life issues down the line. But she's got too much 'to lose' for it not to work out. Whether that balance will make her happier? Well, again, as long as the boys are happy, then I cannot ask for much more.
> 
> I forgot to mention in last post, the OM BW has, apparently, already met someone else too. So that's 3 out of 4 of 'us' happy in new relationships. That leaves me, taking it steady, taking stock and building slowly. Have often felt like the odd one out, but this time, it feels right to be that one.


Then it shouldn't be a problem to inform her of what's going on should it? However, that may or may not be the truth. Especially if it came from you stbxw


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## Melrose8888

What's the point of telling her now?
It came from my snooping of the stbxw (which I have stopped today) so likely is true, and thinking about it, I reckon BW had this going on for a while, POSOM realised and decided to go for my wife and break up another marriage. What a real POS he is.

It's like these people think they are in a movie or soap opera, not real life.


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## 2ntnuf

Melrose8888 said:


> What's the point of telling her now?
> It came from my snooping of the stbxw (which I have stopped today) so likely is true, and thinking about it, I reckon BW had this going on for a while, POSOM realised and decided to go for my wife and break up another marriage. What a real POS he is.
> 
> It's like these people think they are in a movie or soap opera, not real life.


They are each a POS. They haven't cornered the market, either. There are plenty of them out there. 

There are no real consequences to be had. Even exposing is being attacked as inappropriate and some are being sued for it. Another victory for cheaters is on the horizon.

Unfortunately, all BS who have never cheated must find acceptance and live in their reality. It is very tough to find a non-cheater.

Just move on and do what you must. Learn as best you can to find someone with better character for a long-term commitment. 

Take care of you and your children. That's what's important. Keep moving forward. You are doing well. You will be okay and, if you work at it, you will find great peace and a happy life in the near future.


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks. I am finding peace within myself but it does feel there are no consequences for cheaters and that sits uneasy with me.

I have given up spending energy on trying to understand why but I do see how messed up the stbxw must be, to stop caring for a 4 year old, not seeing him everyday (barely 40% at the moment), instead booking dirty weekend away, nights out for dinner etc, all so she can spend, even more time that everyday at work, with her boss. Ah I forgot, he's her soul mate

Bad choice for me? She sure was.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks. I am finding peace within myself but it does feel there are no consequences for cheaters and that sits uneasy with me.
> 
> I have given up spending energy on trying to understand why but I do see how messed up the stbxw must be, to stop caring for a 4 year old, not seeing him everyday (barely 40% at the moment), instead booking dirty weekend away, nights out for dinner etc, all so she can spend, even more time that everyday at work, with her boss. Ah I forgot, he's her soul mate
> 
> Bad choice for me? She sure was.


It takes awhile but you'll get there. Maybe sooner than most. After the D her life, etc will have nothing to do with you. Just keep a hard 180 and never let it down.

Live your life for you and your child.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... your POS-WW and this "punk" have maybe a 10% chance of making it, as you and she did.

Isn't the D rate 53% in England? I'm not a math major but, those odds ain't good.

Expose when you feel it is right, but the sooner.... the better. These people want what fits them

"in the here and now" and never worry about the afterbirths down the road. Reason why she has panty-lines 

in the victim chair already. What was your STBXWs childhood like? With parents? Siblings? Aunts / uncles?

It's 3AM here in the EST of the US.... my favorite time..... I sent this to DC maybe a week before

I called it with her. It was a hint.... she ignored it, I knew she would. It helped me to become 

cold when I told her we are through.


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## Melrose8888

They certainly do need luck for it to work but they are going to give it the best shot. Neither have anything else to lose, given they have already given up on both of their marriages and kids etc.

Realistically, exposure won't be until the consent order is sealed. This is taking much longer than I had wished, so still 6 weeks away? I have the letter, copies of the texts and the timeline all ready to send though.

STBXW, only child, parents divorced when she was 8 (Dad gambler) and he Mum 'protected' her from that truth until an adult. She never got on with her Mum, preferred her Aunt (single, big drinker) instead, who pretty much raised her. She spoke to Dad once or twice in our 17 years together then he died April 2016 and she didn't go to funeral....

Ha - nice song!!


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## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> They certainly do need luck for it to work but they are going to give it the best shot. Neither have anything else to lose, given they have already given up on both of their marriages and kids etc.
> 
> Realistically, exposure won't be until the consent order is sealed. This is taking much longer than I had wished, so still 6 weeks away? I have the letter, copies of the texts and the timeline all ready to send though.
> 
> STBXW, only child, parents divorced when she was 8 (Dad gambler) and he Mum 'protected' her from that truth until an adult. She never got on with her Mum, preferred her Aunt (single, big drinker) instead, who pretty much raised her. She spoke to Dad once or twice in our 17 years together then he died April 2016 and she didn't go to funeral....
> 
> Ha - nice song!!


Child of divorce, her drunk aunt raised her, rocky relationship with mom.... knew little about 

her father. This SCREAMS damaged! What were your ages when you started dating?

Her dad died in April 2016...... when did her affair start? Not just the PA, but the EA too.

Virtually every female goes the EA to PA, super rare for them to go straight to PA.


----------



## Melrose8888

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong I knew all this and we got together me 21, her 24. She only had 3 serious bf before me.

The Dad thing is obvious too. Her boss is 5 years older at 46, bald, old looking and very Dad like. EA likely started in June, post PA snooping revealed she was searching for him around then and in hindsight, she talked so highly of him around the same time.

So glad the crazy cow is out of my life but still concerned the impact on my kids. Picked them up from school today after them being at hers for last 5 nights, both were shattered. Eldest told me in tears they didn't sleep well (they're in same room bunks at hers, separate at mine).


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh yeah, don't get me wrong I knew all this and we got together me 21, her 24. She only had 3 serious bf before me.
> 
> The Dad thing is obvious too. Her boss is 5 years older at 46, bald, old looking and very Dad like. EA likely started in June, post PA snooping revealed she was searching for him around then and in hindsight, she talked so highly of him around the same time.
> 
> So glad the crazy cow is out of my life but still concerned the impact on my kids. Picked them up from school today after them being at hers for last 5 nights, both were shattered. Eldest told me in tears they didn't sleep well (they're in same room bunks at hers, separate at mine).


Crazy cow.... LMFAO!!! She was emotionally stunted as a child. She had no father figure.

Girls who grow up without a father or a strong father figure usually fare much worse in life,

as do the ones who did. Her father's death emotionally put her back at the age she was stunted.

Enter POSOM / daddy figure. My 1st love's dad would punish her by taking a toothbrush.... 

to her vagina as a kid. She was damaged the day I met her when she was 16.

Had we met in 1968 instead of 1988, we would have married right out of high school.

10-12-15 years later.... she would have been your STBXW.... unless she faced her issues.

Neither did, that's why you are here Melrose.


----------



## Melrose8888

Got confirmation today that bank will let me take on the mortgage myself. Big relief and although it is an almighty financial commitment, it feels so important to allow stability for my two sons.

Youngest has ear infection, so was at home with me today. Even ill he is such a fun and clever little boy. I hope this all has minimal affect on him LT.

Then it was eldest sons parents evening. This was the first social occasion with stbxw and myself since pre xmas. Her POS Friends were there, who I ignored. After acknowledging her presence, I ignored the stbxw until it was time to speak to the teacher. ex was dressed like the slapper she is, got my attention but for the wrong reasons! She tried to engage in small talk after but I held 180, just asked her why boys are complaining they don't sleep well at hers. She suggested they were fibbing.... Ahem.

Eldest son cried at bedtime again, referencing photo of us together, again. I told him this time, this is for the best, he is always welcome here and it will be alright. I talk a good game, just need to convince myself now...


----------



## Chuck71

Example #1 why married couples with no kids get off easy. BTW... we had no kids together.

But pain, is.... pain. Just from more directions in your case.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Get some pictures of you and him together with youngest....smiling and having fun. Frame at least one good one and place it somewhere he will see it when he is there. 

Keep up the good work. You are doing very well.


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## Chuck71

Melrose...... always remember..... you can only control what YOU do.

Every one else is accountable for their own actions.


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## Thor

Melrose8888 said:


> Got confirmation today that bank will let me take on the mortgage myself. Big relief and although it is an almighty financial commitment, it feels so important to allow stability for my two sons.


They say the biggest financial mistake women make in divorce is keeping the house when they cannot afford it. I would encourage you to keep this in mind even though you aren't the mom! Obviously the stability for your kids is extremely important, but driving yourself to financial crisis would be very traumatic for the kids. If the burden is too large to stay in the house, don't wait too long to bail out. The kids will adapt to a new home. Keep an ongoing open mind about whether this home remains affordable.


----------



## Chuck71

Thor said:


> They say the biggest financial mistake women make in divorce is keeping the house when they cannot afford it. I would encourage you to keep this in mind even though you aren't the mom! Obviously the stability for your kids is extremely important, but driving yourself to financial crisis would be very traumatic for the kids. If the burden is too large to stay in the house, don't wait too long to bail out. The kids will adapt to a new home. Keep an ongoing open mind about whether this home remains affordable.


110% agree. They think the POSOM or future dumb-sheet will be folly enough to help her pay the mortgage.

After she is "passed around and used up" by her circle of friends, reality sets in.

Karma 101


----------



## honcho

Thor said:


> They say the biggest financial mistake women make in divorce is keeping the house when they cannot afford it. I would encourage you to keep this in mind even though you aren't the mom! Obviously the stability for your kids is extremely important, but driving yourself to financial crisis would be very traumatic for the kids. If the burden is too large to stay in the house, don't wait too long to bail out. The kids will adapt to a new home. Keep an ongoing open mind about whether this home remains affordable.


My crazy ex could not afford the house but it was like a crown jewel to her in the divorce. I know her mom has bailed her out on at least 3 different occasions over the last few years to stave off foreclosure. She has told friends of hers that the house also feels like a "prison". She feels trapped by all the memories. 

I would have like to have kept the house as I could easily afford it but the constant reminders in the place made it an easy choice to move and let her "win" the house.


----------



## Chuck71

honcho said:


> My crazy ex could not afford the house but it was like a crown jewel to her in the divorce. I know her mom has bailed her out on at least 3 different occasions over the last few years to stave off foreclosure. She has told friends of hers that the house also feels like a "prison". She feels trapped by all the memories.
> 
> I would have like to have kept the house as I could easily afford it but the constant reminders in the place made it an easy choice to move and let her "win" the house.


Maybe she is following through with those porn tapes she accused you of making with her.

Even though you didn't even have a recorder at that time.


----------



## honcho

Chuck71 said:


> Maybe she is following through with those porn tapes she accused you of making with her.
> 
> Even though you didn't even have a recorder at that time.


Another royalty check or two and I can retire :rofl::


----------



## Melrose8888

This is a general divorce question but is relevant to my situation.

So a couple gets married, buys house, gets jobs, has kids, etc then one wants out to 'feel alive' again. Well, what a perfect opportunity, agree shared custody with kids and you are free to go and do all the things you wanted. Find a SO to join in and you have the additional cash to support your 'dreams'.

What I can't understand is why they think giving up half of seeing their kids, half their assets, friendship and the upheaval is worth it, especially by cheating with an OS. I perhaps get it in truly destructive marriages but not everyone can maintain the levels of romance, sex, attention they seek, when coupled with two kids, two jobs, bills.

Is it any wonder infidelity appeals. True happiness seems so easy, when you haven't got 50% of normal life in the way to stop you?


----------



## Marc878

They have a selfish character and nothing means as much to them (spouse, family or kids) except what they want. In essence they only care for themselves.

From your outlook why would you want someone like that in your life? I'd bet if you were single you wouldn't be looking for that as a wife would you?

So what she does shouldn't concern you now. Yeah, it'll take you awhile to get through and over this but you're going to be fine.

You do have to completely cut her out of your life to get there.


----------



## Chuck71

Instant gratification....... newer is always better. How's that usually work out?

I am prepped for dropping the Redwood Forest on you....... 

GET YOUR F MIND OFF OF HER


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## Chuck71

double post............ just to reaffirm.... she is your adversary, not your W.

A W has your back, defends you. That ain't her.


----------



## inging

Hi Melrose
I just caught up with your thread and if it is any help, all is going just about as it normally does.

Seven years ago I was in your shoes, two kids, and a life with the my first real love. At the time I was blindsided by the events which I won't go into because they are almost identical to yours. Twenty five years together. It never occurred to me that she would cheat.
Well, she did and now I am Divorced.
I think that a big mistake was staying in the family home for too long. It held me back from moving on, it allowed her to think that it was all okay. 
Two years ago I moved with my kids to a smaller house on the other side of town. It is newer and easier to clean ( the value of this can not be underestimated.) and totally different to the house I used to be in. 

I wish i had done it sooner. Sort out the money and then sell and move. 

Your skanky STBXW
I am sorry but that is who she has proven to be. Parading around town with her new guy who she left her husband and children for. Yeah. Welcome to a hell of her own making

it is early days and you are still in a lot of pain. You still miss her and want her. That may last a while. It may last your whole life. The thing is the person you loved probably never existed. I suggest that you projected a lot on her. 
Only time and other experiences will heal that.

Your life
It is going to get better. Much better. 
You will not believe where you are on the attractiveness scale now. You need to fix your person picker before you do more than hook up though. That is a bad case of "Do as i say. not as I did"

Letting Go is the key. ask yoruself what you really want from life. Ask he BIG questions now

Have to go and see my GF now. She cooked me dinner and really, really wants to see me. Tough life...


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks inging for further sharing your experience.

I'm, currently at least, OK with remaining in the home, I have surprisingly very few triggers from it, though I concede that I likely need to go a full year before that is confirmed. I think stability is the key here, I can see the upheaval moving causes, not just to the boys but me. That said, I am fully prepared to let go when the time is right. I don't hold emotional attachment to it and you are right, it is too big when I am there on my own.

You understand exactly where I am, in trauma for the loss of what we had but I am, thanks to people like yourself on TAM, very aware that what we had was a sham for many years.

Here is where I need to be honest, I am snooping far too much on her and it has to stop. I am using the excuse that I want to get information to avoid any bumps in the Divorce / Financial settlement road. Indeed, without snooping around D-day, I would potentially still be separated and expecting R, so it does/did serve a purpose. But now, all it does is, is give me details of her dates, sex life etc. of her and the POSOM. Not good but hard to not look... I guess I'd like to believe STBXW life is going to be hell but it doesn't sound like it and I have to accept it may never be. Circus, monkeys etc...

I have my list of big aims and I am dipping my toe into dating - the self-esteem boost is amazing.

One QQ - what do you mean by this? "I suggest that you projected a lot on her"?

Hope dinner was fun. She sounds great - good work!


----------



## Evinrude58

I would seriously consider doing whatever it takes to get her out of your head, even seeing other wonen. If you keep dwelling on her, your life will be a nightmare. And it's so easy to do with nobody but your kids in your life.

Don't ever let yourself visualize her in a good way. She is a despicable person. What she is doing and has done to you is pure evil.
Get the devil out of your head.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> That said, I am fully prepared to let go when the time is right. I don't hold emotional attachment to it and you are right, it is too big when I am there on my own.


It is just a thing. Stay for as long as you need it for your stabilty. You are in fact your boys stability and a new house is an adventure that in 12-18 months you all may need



Melrose8888 said:


> Here is where I need to be honest, I am snooping far too much on her and it has to stop. I am using the excuse that I want to get information to avoid any bumps in the Divorce / Financial settlement road. Indeed, without snooping around D-day, I would potentially still be separated and expecting R, so it does/did serve a purpose. But now, all it does is, is give me details of her dates, sex life etc. of her and the POSOM. Not good but hard to not look... I guess I'd like to believe STBXW life is going to be hell but it doesn't sound like it and I have to accept it may never be. Circus, monkeys etc...


 We all did it mate. Cut yourself some slack. 
Block her on all social media. Now..
Change her ring tone.
Delete her texts from your phone after you have dealt with them
Forget her. She can never be the person she was. 
You have a life to lead so that your boys remember a Dad with a smile



Melrose8888 said:


> One QQ - what do you mean by this? "I suggest that you projected a lot on her"?


I know nothing about your STBXW but let me paint a little picture and see how close I am.

When you met her she was charming, bright, attentive awesome in bed. Lets not forget hot. 

Over the years that person became harder and harder to find. You tried lots of things to get her to be that person. You changed yourself over time. She talked of success and other people. You felt less for it.
Occasionally you would see "that girl". The one you fell in love with but you could never work out why and it was increasingly difficult for her to be happy around you. You did not know why. She was tired all the time. Grumpy and resentful that she had to look after the kids while you got to get out of the house.


Now. There are two boys. You have them a lot and somehow things still seem to get done, somehow you are filling in the things she used to do and although it is extra work it doesn't feel like it is that much harder. Why is that?

As you get a little more organized it will get easier still. 

As an aside..Here is a single Dad tip. 
Get the kids to undress in front of the washing machine and toss their clothes in. There is only one setting. Cold water for a long time. If clothes don't survive it. Wrong clothes 
The clothes line is an outdoor closet.


----------



## Melrose8888

Oh my, inging, you've made me laugh! Spot on - on all fronts!

See, that is what gives me hope, I'm not weird, I'm not alone, this **** goes on all over the world, all the time. Sadly...

New house will be fun when time comes, agreed. I am 'taking a break' from her on FB, so I don't see any updates but its the logging in snooping that has to stop.

Right. I feel better again today. Date lined up for next week (she seems a bit nervous / lacking in confidence but nothing ventured...).


----------



## Evinrude58

I think going on a date is a great idea...... no... LOTS of dates.
And people will tell you all the rebound stuff and be careful. I think that's wise, but if you find the right person, and you fall in love with them, you WILL be able to put that rotten ex wife out of your mind. And focusing on your kids, your work, your hobbies, and any freaking woman on the planet other than your wife---------- that's the recipe for getting happy and healthy mentally again. Right now, other than getting rid of the anchor legally, and getting mentally healthy by focusing on things that improve your life---- that's what your main goal should be.

You are NOT alone. This has happened to lots of men. Happened to me. Accept that this is not all your fault, not even close. Accept that she is not who you thought she was. Accept that when she crashes and burns years later, she'll probably come begging back, or just accept her own misery because she knows what a POS she is and won't try to get you back. Accept that YOU can find happiness, because YOU know how to be happy. 
It's all in acceptance. What you don't have to accept is that your mind will be filled with hurtful thoughts about her the rest of your life. There will be bad days, but they will become few and far between when you build a new life with someone else.

good luck to you Melrose. You WILL be happy again. I know, because you are willing to work for it.


----------



## Marc878

With Time and no contact you're going to be fine. 

Your mental outlook appears to be strong


----------



## 2ntnuf

Good luck on your dating. You will be okay, M8.


----------



## Melrose8888

Arrrggg! Met with mutual friends who are over from California for a prearranged short trip, they are great family but link is her friend really.

Had great time, went to the football, I mostly avoided ex chat but the female friend did tell me 'stbxw told me you think she cheated on you, why is that?'. Because she did, was my answer. Then played the I'm glad she is happy now, line as I know she will see them this weekend.

I guess the sad realisation is I cannot be friends with this family anymore, if I truly want to disconnect and move on. Such are the losses from infidelity and divorce, I guess.

I so wish I could expose with all the timeline, dates, texts etc before history rewrite takes over further but there is just too much to lose to do it right now.

Breathe.

I will get through this. Just hate the audacity of the story telling to avoid the truth that she is really a cheater.


----------



## Evinrude58

The devil can't stand to see herself in the mirror.


----------



## Marc878

Yep, probably an enabler. Cut them off. You don't need that in your life.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Arrrggg! Met with mutual friends who are over from California for a prearranged short trip, they are great family but link is her friend really.
> 
> Had great time, went to the football, I mostly avoided ex chat but the female friend did tell me 'stbxw told me you think she cheated on you, why is that?'. Because she did, was my answer. Then played the I'm glad she is happy now, line as I know she will see them this weekend.
> 
> I guess the sad realisation is I cannot be friends with this family anymore, if I truly want to disconnect and move on. Such are the losses from infidelity and divorce, I guess.
> 
> I so wish I could expose with all the timeline, dates, texts etc before history rewrite takes over further but there is just too much to lose to do it right now.
> 
> Breathe.
> 
> I will get through this. Just hate the audacity of the story telling to avoid the truth that she is really a cheater.


When you stop basing your emotions on what others think of, or your impending D,

or your character.... will be the day you will embrace true freedom. 

You are so close.....


----------



## inging

Chuck71 said:


> You are so close.....


The link below is NSFW

*Apparently in America this word is still considered offensive. In Australia. Not so much Life change. Hmm.. yes *


----------



## Melrose8888

OK, so on exposing the affair, should I not give a ****?

If I don't care what others think, why spend time exposing the truth?

She is making up lies about me to anyone who will listen - claiming I am being a **** for not wanting to be friends because she 'didn't cheat'. Is that not a situation that is worth giving a ****?

Most here are very pro-exposure but then most also say you shouldn't give a **** about her.

Can't have it both ways, can we?

Man, I truly cannot wait for all this **** to be over!!!


----------



## Satya

Let her say what she will. 
You stand steadfastly in your truth. 

Exposure is your choice, just be wary it can backfire and make you look like a man desperate to slag her off, even if it is the truth. 

IMO, better to just cut the people off who take her side... They have the right to emotionally invest as they choose.

Some people (I am one such) do not form allegiances based on history or words but present facts and actions. They see through people to the core. Hence I have only enough true friends to count off the fingers of one hand. Many just assume a "friend" supports them automatically no matter what they do or how they behave. Not in my mind. A friend tells the truth - often what you don't want to hear, but need to. 

So, I'd just quietly eject from your life anyone not willing to be open to seeing your truth. Those that tell you the truth - even if it stings - hold onto those ones. They will be like a tonic in your life and see people for who they are. You may even find yourself dating one such person some day.


----------



## Melrose8888

Satya said:


> Let her say what she will.
> You stand steadfastly in your truth.
> 
> Exposure is your choice, just be wary it can backfire and make you look like a man desperate to slag her off, even if it is the truth.
> 
> IMO, better to just cut the people off who take her side... They have the right to emotionally invest as they choose.
> 
> Some people (I am one such) do not form allegiances based on history or words but present facts and actions. They see through people to the core. Hence I have only enough true friends to count off the fingers of one hand. Many just assume a "friend" supports them automatically no matter what they do or how they behave. Not in my mind. A friend tells the truth - often what you don't want to hear, but need to.
> 
> So, I'd just quietly eject from your life anyone not willing to be open to seeing your truth. Those that tell you the truth - even if it stings - hold onto those ones. They will be like a tonic in your life and see people for who they are. You may even find yourself dating one such person some day.


You have summed this up perfectly, Satya.

This is why, on the whole, (and despite being called a guy with no balls from some on here for it) I am not overly bothered about mass exposure. I have told the truth and full details to the people who I believe matter to me / are true friends.

I guess I shouldn't care if any of her POS friends believes I am not being friends with the stbxw just because I am bitter over divorce, rather than the truth, which is I don't need or want a deceitful, lying abuser as a friend.

I have shipped friends, hell, even best friends, out of my life in the past because of their lack of ability to tell truth and hold integrity.

In the interests of truth telling, it was 12 years ago but I did have to remind myself just last night, that I did cross the EA line with someone but I did immediately recognise it and broke it off with the ex. I would be amazed if that is the reason why she feels 'entitled' to do what she has done now (12 years, a marriage and 2 kids later) but stranger things have happened...


----------



## MattMatt

If anyone asks the "why do you think she cheated" question say "well, Wifeypoo (or whatever her name is) obviously wanted to move on and form a meaningful relationship with her married boss.

"It's just that it would have been more humane of them if they had told myself and his wife in advance of them leaving their clueless spouses so that we could have prepared our children and extended families for the major changes that would be coming to their lives.

"If I am honest then yes, the way Wifeypoo has treated the children and me had made me feel a little bitter but I am not allowing her actions to define who or what I am. I am going to be better than that."


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, so on exposing the affair, should I not give a ****?
> 
> If I don't care what others think, why spend time exposing the truth?
> 
> She is making up lies about me to anyone who will listen - claiming I am being a **** for not wanting to be friends because she 'didn't cheat'. Is that not a situation that is worth giving a ****?
> 
> Most here are very pro-exposure but then most also say you shouldn't give a **** about her.
> 
> Can't have it both ways, can we?
> 
> Man, I truly cannot wait for all this **** to be over!!!


It's called evening the score.

Don't live for it, just let it happen.

Do you watch Star Wars?


----------



## Chuck71

One should care how someone treats you.

One should not care how you re act.

Better served, how they think you re act.

You owe others nothing. 

How they re act, is THEIR problem.

This is YOUR time.

Simple, precise, calculating.....

How can it backfire if you are astute with your actions?


----------



## Melrose8888

I do like a bit of Star Wars!

I have the exposure written, I have selected the texts to share but it does come across as a little bitter, even to me.

Again, I guess I need to not care how others take the information, at least the information will be out there.

I guess it is scary that stbxw actually believes she is telling the truth! I know a lot of you told me this would happen but it is still hard to comprehend.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, so on exposing the affair, should I not give a ****?
> 
> If I don't care what others think, why spend time exposing the truth?
> 
> She is making up lies about me to anyone who will listen - claiming I am being a **** for not wanting to be friends because she 'didn't cheat'. Is that not a situation that is worth giving a ****?
> 
> Most here are very pro-exposure but then most also say you shouldn't give a **** about her.
> 
> Can't have it both ways, can we?
> 
> Man, I truly cannot wait for all this **** to be over!!!


Where do you live? Be as general or as specific as you like, but more specific than "western hemisphere" and less specific than "123 45th St, Apt 67, Anytown, USA, 98765".


----------



## Melrose8888

London, England.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> London, England.


I'd rethink the exposure letter. It wasn't too long ago that we had a Brit wind up in hot water w/ the law after exposing in a very similar manner. Something about sending the letter out to multiple people or somesuch.

What sucks is that it didn't matter that he was telling the truth, only that he'd caused his WW emotional distress or some other commie nonsense.

Not sure how it turned out for him, but hopefully he's OK.

Do you use social media at all? If so, how many of the people to whom you're looking to expose are in your circles?


----------



## Melrose8888

Yes, UK is messed up on this. It is a big risk to expose.

Most FB friends that matter already know the story from me, 'her' friends, I guess I'd like to let them know the truth but I see that is doesn't really matter. Her work friends, who are not mutual, well that would be fun, given they are still sneaking around at work as boss and direct report, without telling anyone.

I think one to one calls with those that matter is better and those that are worth keeping as friends, I can physically show the texts to those who are interested or doubtful.


----------



## ButtPunch

No point in exposing unless you are trying to save your marriage and break up her affair.

Move on with your life. 

I don't know the whole story but if OM has a wife she deserves to know.


----------



## Melrose8888

Nope, marriage is over, I don't want R.

I am moving on, until someone pops up and tells me 'I don't understand why you can't be friends - it's not like she cheated on you'. FFS.

OM Wife knows (apparently) and (apparently) has a new man too (probably did already have one during all this). POS everywhere!!!


----------



## ButtPunch

Melrose8888 said:


> Nope, marriage is over, I don't want R.
> 
> I am moving on, until someone pops up and tells me 'I don't understand why you can't be friends - it's not like she cheated on you'. FFS.
> 
> OM Wife knows (apparently) and (apparently) has a new man too (probably did already have one during all this). POS everywhere!!!


I would have just said that if banging your boss isn't cheating then she probably didn't cheat and laughed it off. Don't do the full on bitter letter with screen shots thing. This marriage is done. good luck and have a good life without her


----------



## SofaKingWeToddId

Exposure is a tool to break up an affair. Since you are divorcing, I don't see any benefit to you. There are too many risks. (The only exception is telling the other spouse. I think it is the right thing to do to tell OMW).

That doesn't mean you can't tell the truth if people ask why you are divorcing.


----------



## Melrose8888

Just emailed the OMW, to offer to talk.

Not sure she will respond, esp. if it is true that she, too has a new man. But at least the offer is there, now.


----------



## GusPolinski

So obviously I'm not a) British, b) a lawyer, or c) a British lawyer, and I mention that because I want to make it clear that I'm not comfortable giving what might wind up amounting to legal advice.

Having said that...

Were I inclined to get the word out in what's _really_ gone on, the only thing that I _might_ do is to post something like this on social media...

"What do you call it when a spouse begins a romantic relationship -- sexts, sex, the whole nine yards -- with someone who is NOT his or her spouse WHILE still married to his or her spouse?

Cheating. You call it cheating.

Suppose also that someone enagaged in such a relationship a) has children with his or her spouse and b) attempts to leave his or her marriage without disclosing the affair.

Still cheating, right?

Now suppose this person's 'affair partner', if you will, is in the exact same boat -- married with kids, leaving the marriage, lying about why, etc.

So now, by the actions of these two people, two families are irrevocably destroyed.

Sounds great, right?

Just throwing out a topic for discussion here, folks. No reason for things to get heated -- no reason we can't all be 'friends'."

IOW, name no names, level no direct charges or accusations, etc.

I might tag her, though.

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## bandit.45

ButtPunch said:


> No point in exposing unless you are trying to save your marriage and break up her affair.
> 
> Move on with your life.
> 
> I don't know the whole story but if OM has a wife she deserves to know.


Bull****. 

He has a reputation to protect. If she is out there lying about him and blaming him for the demise of the marriage, he has a right to defend his honor. **** her.


----------



## Chuck71

GusPolinski said:


> I'd rethink the exposure letter. It wasn't too long ago that we had a Brit wind up in hot water w/ the law after exposing in a very similar manner. Something about sending the letter out to multiple people or somesuch.
> 
> What sucks is that it didn't matter that he was telling the truth, only that he'd caused his WW emotional distress or some other commie nonsense.
> 
> Not sure how it turned out for him, but hopefully he's OK.
> 
> Do you use social media at all? If so, how many of the people to whom you're looking to expose are in your circles?


Unfreakingbelieveable.......


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> London, England.


----------



## Affaircare

@bandit.45 and @Chuck71, 

I will need to politely disagree with you about the exposure, ONLY because @Melrose8888 is in England. The law there for harassment (PHA) is MUCH, MUCH different than the law here in the USA, because it says (essentially) that if you say or write or email something to more than two people with the intent to persuade them, and the action "causes alarm." For example, if he were to email to four people, attempting to persuade them that his STBXW was a cheater, and being called a cheater "caused her alarm" she could literally have him arrested. 

So my thought for @Melrose8888 would be twofold. As some of these people speak to you, one-on-one say on social media or in real life, I would absolutely tell them the truth in a factual way, and by that I mean saying: "I'm not trying to persuade you to think one thing or the other, but the facts were: ___, ____, and ___ ...draw your own conclusions." I see no reason not to speak the truth ESPECIALLY if you have documentation to prove it. 

But then secondly, I'd share with you a story from my own divorce. In my first marriage, my exH was physically, emotionally and verbally abusive, and he cheated. I asked him to stop and he would not stop cheating. I spent about a year going to counseling and trying to see if the marriage could be saved, but he did not want to change (i.e., he wanted to continue to abuse). We divorced, and naturally in my head the reason for our divorce was a) he cheated, b) he was abusive, and c) he didn't want to change either of those two! His opinion differed, and he told everyone that I had anger issues and was a violent person. Well I'm about as non-violent as people come (  ) so rather than joining the drama circle and talking a bunch of crap about him, I decided to not "talk" but to like my life and my actions speak for themselves! Honestly I felt like you--like I had to defend my honor--but I also knew that anyone with eyes and a brain would eventually see the truth. 

So he went around for ... oh six months or a year badmouthing me, being a real jerk, continuing in his cheating, and refusing to follow court orders, and I was quiet and raised the kids while he cavorted around. Pretty soon, our former customers and former friends came to me and said, "Wow he's still ranting and raving. He's really the one with the anger issue, isn't he?" (and I'd just nod). Or one client came to me after basically ignoring me for a year, and they said, "We listened to him talk smack about you for a year, and we thought you were just the most awful person. But then we'd go to a conference with him, and he'd scream all week long. Or we'd go to a service call and he'd call our customers names and flip out on them! It never was you raging, was it?" 

I think if I had bad-mouthed him back, those former customers and friends would have thought it's just He Said/She Said and ignored us both, but since I didn't, and just went about my life living well and being sane, they could see the contrast without me having to say a word. See, even after divorce actions speak WAY louder than words.


----------



## Melrose8888

Right then. Here's one for all of you who were persistent on me telling the OMW.

So I emailed her this afternoon saying I'd be happy to talk, she replied immediately with contact details, so have just spent the last 2 hours on the phone with her. She had been contemplating telling me her suspicions for months but, just like me, had too much to lose to risk it.

So much Information, I can't remember half of it but the main points:

OMW said she knew he was obsessed with my STBXW from day 1 she joined the work, back in April 16, so EA from April
OMW also met POSOM at her work and he played exactly the same game with her
POSOM was married when OMW met him and had already left another at the alter!!
POSOM had an affair 6 years ago - played the same routine again, took her to all the places he is taking my STBXW. OMW forgave him for sake of kids
She thinks POSOM and my ex had sex in October 16 but has no firm proof
He told her he they only got together late Jan 17 - I set her straight
He is broken about leaving his kids as they both hate him now but the kids also blame OMW, because he blame shifted and told them it was her fault
OMW and POSOM had a perfectly normal marriage, regular sex, right up to end of Nov 16
POSOM is telling his wife to cut back on spending, yet he is spending a fortune on my ex

Told her to get into financial mediation next week and take him to the cleaners - checking every piece of spending over past 6 months (with me if she likes). He told her they didn't need it and he will make sure she is looked after! Pah! Told her what I thought of that!

We are now teasing our STBXW/H about having spoken with each other.

Yes, this is a potential risk to my financial settlement / Divorce but you know what, I don't give a ****. I'm over this. Whatever will be, will be.

Looking forward to my new life, be it in this house or another. Be it will 50% of the kids time with me or more. Be it if I have to get a new job. Be it if I have to find a new path.

It really is going to be alright.

And most of you were right too - it's going to be living hell for the POSXW.

Bonne Chance.


----------



## *Deidre*

I'm so happy that you are doing well! And looking forward to the future!  Good things are going to come. Sorry this all happened to you. That OM sounds like a narcissist/sociopath, tbh. Good luck to your stbxw ...because he will cheat on her, too...if he isn't already. 

Happy weekend to you!


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks Affaircare, some very sensible advice here, backed up with a real life story of why everything will be OK in the end. The people that really matter will see the truth. Sad fact is, most female friends back her idea that 'in the pursuit of happiness' its OK!

I will rise to be the better man on mass exposure but stick to the facts with those who need to know.


----------



## Lostinthought61

pursuing one's happiness doesn't come cheap and even you think giving up on everyone and everything that real matters for that elusive happiness of your dreams... it will most likely never come at all....leaving you alone, and shattered.


----------



## MattMatt

There are ways to let people know she is a cheater without calling her a cheater.


----------



## Melrose8888

Let me just throw this out here, so I can nip it in the bud.

It is natural to be massively emotionally drawn to the OMW in these situations? Just because you are grieving the exact same thing and can resonate with everything they say?

I see some on here joke about revenge sex with OMW but (having texted back and forth all evening after our call) I can easily see how it happens.

Sorry, bit of a left-field question after a very eventful day!!!


----------



## *Deidre*

Melrose8888 said:


> Let me just throw this out here, so I can nip it in the bud.
> 
> It is natural to be massively emotionally drawn to the OMW in these situations? Just because you are grieving the exact same thing and can resonate with everything they say?
> 
> I see some on here joke about revenge sex with OMW but (having texted back and forth all evening after our call) I can easily see how it happens.
> 
> Sorry, bit of a left-field question after a very eventful day!!!


I get it, I guess. But, honestly? At this point, you should stop texting and talking...because she IS still married. To a jerk, but she is still married.


----------



## Melrose8888

Quite right, Deidre. Just got a little too excited with my positive thinking...

Bud nipped.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Right then. Here's one for all of you who were persistent on me telling the OMW.
> 
> So I emailed her this afternoon saying I'd be happy to talk, she replied immediately with contact details, so have just spent the last 2 hours on the phone with her. She had been contemplating telling me her suspicions for months but, just like me, had too much to lose to risk it.
> 
> So much Information, I can't remember half of it but the main points:
> 
> OMW said she knew he was obsessed with my STBXW from day 1 she joined the work, back in April 16, so EA from April
> OMW also met POSOM at her work and he played exactly the same game with her
> POSOM was married when OMW met him and had already left another at the alter!!
> POSOM had an affair 6 years ago - played the same routine again, took her to all the places he is taking my STBXW. OMW forgave him for sake of kids
> She thinks POSOM and my ex had sex in October 16 but has no firm proof
> He told her he they only got together late Jan 17 - I set her straight
> He is broken about leaving his kids as they both hate him now but the kids also blame OMW, because he blame shifted and told them it was her fault
> OMW and POSOM had a perfectly normal marriage, regular sex, right up to end of Nov 16
> POSOM is telling his wife to cut back on spending, yet he is spending a fortune on my ex
> 
> Told her to get into financial mediation next week and take him to the cleaners - checking every piece of spending over past 6 months (with me if she likes). He told her they didn't need it and he will make sure she is looked after! Pah! Told her what I thought of that!
> 
> We are now teasing our STBXW/H about having spoken with each other.
> 
> Yes, this is a potential risk to my financial settlement / Divorce but you know what, I don't give a ****. I'm over this. Whatever will be, will be.
> 
> Looking forward to my new life, be it in this house or another. Be it will 50% of the kids time with me or more. Be it if I have to get a new job. Be it if I have to find a new path.
> 
> It really is going to be alright.
> 
> And most of you were right too - it's going to be living hell for the POSXW.
> 
> Bonne Chance.


Hmmmmm, doesn't match the story you were told. That OMW was ok with the situation now does it?

Cheaters lie a lot. You were fed that to keep you quiet and in control.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

*Deidre* said:


> I get it, I guess. But, honestly? At this point, you should stop texting and talking...because she IS still married. To a jerk, but she is still married.


 According to a piece of paper she may be , but he (and M8's STBXW) broke the marriage vows hence the marriage months ago. Not condoning it necessarily but that marriage ship has sailed, so I don't see that as a viable reason. M8 and OMW's morals and commitment should guide that, not a government mandated piece of paper.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> Quite right, Deidre. Just got a little too excited with my positive thinking...
> 
> Bud nipped.



Keep the blood in the bud though. Who knows? Once she files for D, she may be amenable to some mutual soothing.


----------



## *Deidre*

Rubix Cubed said:


> According to a piece of paper she may be , but he (and M8's STBXW) broke the marriage vows hence the marriage months ago. Not condoning it necessarily but that marriage ship has sailed, so I don't see that as a viable reason. M8 and OMW's morals and commitment should guide that, not a government mandated piece of paper.


Probably best to heal from the bad marriage, before jumping into another relationship. And she is still married until...she isn't. 

Unless you want more drama in your life...


----------



## *Deidre*

Melrose8888 said:


> Quite right, Deidre. Just got a little too excited with my positive thinking...
> 
> Bud nipped.


I understand how you probably feel, but tbh, you should take some time to just ''find yourself'' again, without a woman. Heal. You might think you're interested in this woman, simply because you have this weird situation in common. But, you BOTH need to heal ...otherwise, you might end up in another bad relationship. I don't believe that saying ''to get over an ex, is to get under someone else.'' lol :scratchhead:


----------



## Tatsuhiko

What's apparent is that OM will eventually dump your wife for the next affair. Maybe it's petty, but at least you'll get the satisfaction of seeing it happen. But by then you won't care so much, because you'll have a wonderful woman that loves and respects you. Count on it. And your ex will hate you for it.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chuck71 said:


> Unfreakingbelieveable.......


Socialist Republic of Anglostan


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> Let me just throw this out here, so I can nip it in the bud.
> 
> *It is natural to be massively emotionally drawn to the OMW in these situations?* Just because you are grieving the exact same thing and can resonate with everything they say?
> 
> I see some on here joke about revenge sex with OMW but (having texted back and forth all evening after our call) I can easily see how it happens.
> 
> Sorry, bit of a left-field question after a very eventful day!!!


Yes.

Tread carefully.


----------



## JohnA

Remember your actions define you, not her's.

To clarify OMW was originally his OW like your wife, that MOM and his wife's started the same way as your wife and his did??

Stop teasing them about talking and do not share info gained from it. You will want to do so badly, but don't let her find out on her own. D not stand in the way of Karma.


----------



## Melrose8888

Marc878 said:


> Hmmmmm, doesn't match the story you were told. That OMW was ok with the situation now does it?
> 
> Cheaters lie a lot. You were fed that to keep you quiet and in control.


Thing about this is it's the POSOM lies. This was a private message from stbxw to her friends, she believes every word he tells her and wants to be believe the OMW is out of the picture and that everyone is going to be happy. She even wants to take the credit for all of this.

She keeps banging on (on private messages) about how everyone she knows is unhappy and that they should all leave husband's to find happiness they 'deserve'!! Lol.

(As a side note, I cannot believe stbxw hasn't changed her FB password...!).


----------



## Danny4133

Mate,

Your doing very well here, you have a plan for the future and like me prioritise kids, that's more than our POS EX can ever say.

Every step you take financially, exposing, interacting with this morally bankrupt person should be done so considering your kids and the future. 

When they understand what she's done and you're able to gently but clearly back everything up with hard proof it will be up to them to decide matters for themselves. How you conduct yourself is very important because it could come back to haunt you with he did she did in the future.

Cracking on to OBS would be a sweet as for the ultimate payback, if no kids were involved I'd be advocating you go have a bash. But this would only be a short term gain, we're BS yes, but what seperated us from rainbow chasers is the long game. You keep your morals keep your integrity and take the high ground as it will pay dividens in the future I promise. Consider this when you choose how you expose and what you say. Gus makes a good point by stating the facts subliminally.

Me personally would change status on social media to divorced, select show on timeline and when the questions come which they will, state you were in an open marriage for xxxx but wasn't informed. As you have kids and beleive in the sanctity of marriage you had no choice but to escape the abuse.

No names, no slander just facts.

Now I'm about 5 months ahead of you fella, legally about 4 months approx. But (and I may get hammered for this) but nothing helped speed me forwards in the healing process than clicking heels with another lady. It was 4 months past D Day and our meet up point just so happened to be a bar where EX was lol. Talk about what are the chances !!. I guess you could call that karma.

Anyway I made it very clear what the deal was, she'd just exited a relationship (a few weeks before) it was an ego boost, I rediscovered my manhood, mono and it put my healing in to turbo.

She started catching feelings after 2 months and I shut it off and ended it. Yes, not ideal but mate it was just the tonic at the time. Just be honest with them and yourself about what the crack is. And bale if things start getting heavy.

It redressed the balance somewhat and I was able to get back on a level again. I always priotised kids first, then my wellbeing, as long as you tune in to yourself and keep those things in mind you will be fine fella.

Trust me in a year from now life will be a lot better for us! Know why? Because we love our kids, have a plan for the future and have the motorvation to graft to get to that point.


----------



## Melrose8888

It's all about the kids, yes they make communication with posex necessary but they bring so much joy and hope to an otherwise despicable situation.

Yes, still proud of my actions, pity the blame shifting and lies go on elsewhere but I can't control others.

Won't be sniffing around OBS but she is a good laugh on texts, great hearing the other side of the story and the guilt of not telling her has been released. A huge release, actually.

I'm thinking mass exposure is against my 'being the better man' mantra but will provide facts, as suggested, in appropriate ways to appropriate people.

Date night on Weds, think she doesn't really want to be with a Dad but on the road to recovery, like you Danny, it could be just what I need.

Yep, we are both doing so well lately. 2017 will be a good year of consolidation and reflection. 2018 is going to be frickin awesome!!


----------



## Marc878

Exposure, consequences, revenge or whatever you want to call it done wisely (the truth only) IMO gets you some closure. I don't believe in internalizing much.

I could care less if someone thinks it's being bitter. It's for you to get off your chest. What do you really care what others think? If it works for you and makes you feel better. That's the point isn't it.


----------



## 2ntnuf

bandit.45 said:


> Keep the blood in the bud though. Who knows? Once she files for D, she may be amenable to some mutual soothing.


Yes, and it will still drive those POSs crazy. 


And, on another note unrelated to bandit's post....


M8,

It is normal, especially since you are still missing the "good old days" with your STBXW, to feel an attraction for the OMW. She is the closest you can get to "your wife", who never really existed, except in your mind's eye.

The real woman who is your STBXW is really not much like the woman you thought. You may lose that attraction once you move on in mind, body and spirit, from your old miserable life.


----------



## Taxman

On a completely different note; One of my clients married the OMW. His XWW and her AP had long since broken up, and she actually showed up at the chapel on the wedding day. Her kids adore the new step mom. The xWW gets little visitation due to the heinous nature with which she treated her family during the A. He thanked his Ex in front of all of his friends for causing him to meet the love of his life.

Karma bus rarely misses.


----------



## Danny4133

Taxman said:


> On a completely different note; One of my clients married the OMW. His XWW and her AP had long since broken up, and she actually showed up at the chapel on the wedding day. Her kids adore the new step mom. The xWW gets little visitation due to the heinous nature with which she treated her family during the A. He thanked his Ex in front of all of his friends for causing him to meet the love of his life.
> 
> Karma bus rarely misses.


Don't it just, love hearing when the balance gets redressed in this way :smthumbup:


----------



## Taxman

I wanted to share that tidbit. I work in a field where I see 2-3 of divorces a year. Usually, I retain one partner as a client, and the other goes elsewhere. I consult with a group of divorce specialists in asset division, mediation and of course psych referrals. To say the least, I have seen as many divorces as I EVER want to see. 

Many are calm and civilized. Most are not. I thank god that I dodged that bullet 30 years ago. However, that does not mean that when a client is being abused by their ex, I will not pick up my sword and do battle on their behalf. PS. My wife kind of knows when I have seen something particularly ugly (Short story-I had a couple that I thought were on the brink, they came to me with EVERYTHING divided, right down to medical receipts. As I am going through I see a receipt for a well known abortion clinic in our city. The husband looks at it and is quite surprised: his wife says, "Oh don't worry, it wasn't yours."), usually after something like that, I will just come through the door and hug her for a very long time. Sometimes I will say, "Thank you for being normal". Her response: "So...do you have a juicy story for me?"


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Melrose8888 said:


> She keeps banging on (on private messages) about how everyone she knows is unhappy and that they should all leave husband's to find happiness they 'deserve'!!


This is her way of addressing her guilt. If she can get everyone else to participate in the crime, then she won't look so bad in her own eyes.


----------



## Melrose8888

First up, am i overplaying the victim here a little? Just reflecting on past couple of weeks. Is it not best if I just 'get over' the affair, accept POS operate everywhere and I got played?

An update up on the OBS situation, POSOM claims I called to cause maximum damage, that I lie and my motivation is to hurt my stbxw. He claimed he was no influence in divorce proceedings and that he wasn't mentioned in mediation (reminder stbxw asked me to not tell her work, be friends with them all as part of mediation). Apparently the date he told his wife they'd got together was only a few weeks ago, 1st Feb!! She knew it was a lie already but I gave her my dates from texts.

He then went on to tell OBS that during my marriage i was extremely aggressive and that I am now behaving like a petulant child. He then praised her for her not acting like that and can't see why I can't be more like her about this!!

They are desperate to know how I found her for some reason. She didn't tell him. Err, duh, LinkedIn?!

Today he said to her that my timing was very interesting and he'd like to know what game I'm playing...

Stbxw friends are mixed, some say get a hit man to teach me a lesson (she really is the biggest slag this side of Nottingham - shout out to Danny!), Some say get a lawyer to warn me about my behaviour (err, what, calling another female??) but others say that she'd got away lightly before now and should expect me to be bitter, nasty and after revenge.

What revenge?! This is about morals, justice, truth, integrity.

Think I've ruffled a few feathers!!


----------



## honcho

Melrose8888 said:


> First up, am i overplaying the victim here a little? Just reflecting on past couple of weeks. Is it not best if I just 'get over' the affair, accept POS operate everywhere and I got played?
> 
> An update up on the OBS situation, POSOM claims I called to cause maximum damage, that I lie and my motivation is to hurt my stbxw. He claimed he was no influence in divorce proceedings and that he wasn't mentioned in mediation (reminder stbxw asked me to not tell her work, be friends with them all as part of mediation). Apparently the date he told his wife they'd got together was only a few weeks ago, 1st Feb!! She knew it was a lie already but I gave her my dates from texts.
> 
> He then went on to tell OBS that during my marriage i was extremely aggressive and that I am now behaving like a petulant child. He then praised her for her not acting like that and can't see why I can't be more like her about this!!
> 
> They are desperate to know how I found her for some reason. She didn't tell him. Err, duh, LinkedIn?!
> 
> Today he said to her that my timing was very interesting and he'd like to know what game I'm playing...
> 
> Stbxw friends are mixed, some say get a hit man to teach me a lesson (she really is the biggest slag this side of Nottingham - shout out to Danny!), Some say get a lawyer to warn me about my behaviour (err, what, calling another female??) but others say that she'd got away lightly before now and should expect me to be bitter, nasty and after revenge.
> 
> What revenge?! This is about morals, justice, truth, integrity.
> 
> Think I've ruffled a few feathers!!


In a few months you will look back and laugh at how silly and stupid some of the blame deflecting and excuses the ws uses to try and not be held accountable for anything. It's typical behavior that the om/ow is going to try and paint you as the "bad person". 

Has your stbxw started to figure out yet the om is probably going to try and save his marriage and dump her.


----------



## Melrose8888

I'm already laughing really but taking it a bit too personal when it results in people asking why I cant be friends with the mother of my kids, for the sake of the kids!? I am NOT being friends with her for the sake of the kids, so they know people shouldn't do this!!!

Well, given OBS has already let him cheat once, I believe her when she says it's over and she's not sad at all. No way back and she is encouraging me to be the same. But I know the guilt over his kids is massive, they hate him. That's got to be tough for a father after 15 years to hear that.

Still, they both only have each other now, so it's eggs in one basket time and I'm looking forward to pancakes!!!!!


----------



## Thor

A friend watches your back, not stab you in the back!

You can be cordial or polite when you need to have contact with her later on regarding the kids or other matters which require contact. But you don't have to be friendly, and you sure as hell don't have to be friends!


----------



## Marc878

Definition of friend = honest, loyal, trustworthy.

She's not your friend.


----------



## Satya

Know this is late and possibly pointless above by now... 

Don't stoop to the cheaters level. 

You and the OMW can bond over the mutual experience, but apart from that, you have nothing in common and you are both, for all intents and purposes, still married.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Let me just throw this out here, so I can nip it in the bud.
> 
> It is natural to be massively emotionally drawn to the OMW in these situations? Just because you are grieving the exact same thing and can resonate with everything they say?
> 
> I see some on here joke about revenge sex with OMW but (having texted back and forth all evening after our call) I can easily see how it happens.
> 
> Sorry, bit of a left-field question after a very eventful day!!!


I remember a feature interview in a UK daily paper 20 or 30 years ago.

There were two couples who were neighbours, they did everything together.

Without giving their BS any warning the WS ran away together.

After a year or two of merely providing each other with comfort and a good measure of fellowfeel (after all, they both knew what the other was going through) the BS fell in love with each other and got married.


----------



## Melrose8888

Fairly quiet day today, lovely laughter with my boys at bath time, that always seemed stressful when ex was around.

Did speak to MIL though, she's always is useless at best and came out with 'these things just happen sometimes, no one goes out seeking someone else when they are married'. Politely told her to **** off and that they knew exactly what lines they were crossing. Last time I speak to her! She did tell me that stbxw aunt (who effectively brought her up) had an affair with a married man for 20 years!!!! History repeating.

Glad to be rid of that useless family. What was i thinking back in the day?!?


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Fairly quiet day today, lovely laughter with my boys at bath time, that always seemed stressful when ex was around.
> 
> Did speak to MIL though, she's always is useless at best and came out with 'these things just happen sometimes, no one goes out seeking someone else when they are married'. Politely told her to **** off and that they knew exactly what lines they were crossing. Last time I speak to her! She did tell me that stbxw aunt (who effectively brought her up) had an affair with a married man for 20 years!!!! History repeating.
> 
> Glad to be rid of that useless family. What was i thinking back in the day?!?


You were thinking that they were as nice as they portrayed themselves to be. 

You thought you were getting 










But instead you got


----------



## Melrose8888

Duh, duh, duh, duh, click, click...


----------



## JohnA

Among the hardest things to accept is that adults are adults. They will do what they will. Your ordered good info, so drop it NMP. Now, you boys are not adults. That's worth discussing.


----------



## alte Dame

You sound like you are getting to that point of detachment where you can more naturally keep your eyes on the prize.

You are divorcing a lying, cheating spouse. You have your house and kids. You have all of the promise of a new life ahead of you.

Why spend even a fraction of a second getting worked up over her reaction to your not wanting to be a 'friend'? Who cares? It certainly shouldn't be you.

Everyone here knows to a complete certainty that with friends like her you would never, ever need any enemies. That job would be taken forever.

So why care about the friend thing?

And her friends who believe her lies? Well, they are enabling and hurtful, so axe them. Start fresh with your new fabulous life.

A consideration that isn't at all in the noise is her work situation.

She has managed a promotion by sleeping with the boss. Her company and co-workers need to know this. This, to me, is material and a worthy exposure. You have said that you would report this when the consent decree is finalized and I hope you are as good as your word in this regard.

As for your cowardly stbx who is terrified that her social world will discover her treachery? Who cares? The fact that she cares so much what these people think should mean that you don't need those people. Radioactive by association, imo. The posom is such a bald-faced, ridiculous liar that her choice of him over you means that she is in perfect company with this ridiculous crew of shallow enablers. ('Everyone deserves love'.....sigh.....rolleyes. Sure, I suppose, but you don't run over random people with a Mack truck to get it. Losers, the whole bunch of them.)

Anyway, having delivered my .02 and rant, I wish you the best. Take care of yourself and those children. That is your prize.


----------



## JohnA

@alte Dame either my IPad or this site is going buggy and the like button does not work. Anyway Mel, yea what she said.


----------



## JohnA

@alte Dame either my IPad or this site is going buggy and the like button does not work. Anyway Mel, yea what she said.


----------



## Melrose8888

alte Dame said:


> You sound like you are getting to that point of detachment where you can more naturally keep your eyes on the prize.
> 
> You are divorcing a lying, cheating spouse. You have your house and kids. You have all of the promise of a new life ahead of you.
> 
> Why spend even a fraction of a second getting worked up over her reaction to your not wanting to be a 'friend'? Who cares? It certainly shouldn't be you.
> 
> Everyone here knows to a complete certainty that with friends like her you would never, ever need any enemies. That job would be taken forever.
> 
> So why care about the friend thing?
> 
> And her friends who believe her lies? Well, they are enabling and hurtful, so axe them. Start fresh with your new fabulous life.
> 
> A consideration that isn't at all in the noise is her work situation.
> 
> She has managed a promotion by sleeping with the boss. Her company and co-workers need to know this. This, to me, is material and a worthy exposure. You have said that you would report this when the consent decree is finalized and I hope you are as good as your word in this regard.
> 
> As for your cowardly stbx who is terrified that her social world will discover her treachery? Who cares? The fact that she cares so much what these people think should mean that you don't need those people. Radioactive by association, imo. The posom is such a bald-faced, ridiculous liar that her choice of him over you means that she is in perfect company with this ridiculous crew of shallow enablers. ('Everyone deserves love'.....sigh.....rolleyes. Sure, I suppose, but you don't run over random people with a Mack truck to get it. Losers, the whole bunch of them.)
> 
> Anyway, having delivered my .02 and rant, I wish you the best. Take care of yourself and those children. That is your prize.


Huge thanks for your supportive and informative post, alte Dame.

I feel am I close to detachment, well, the best I can given the on-going Divorce and the co-parenting.

I care less this week about what others think too. There is being supportive to your friends and then there is utter stupidity. Most fall into the latter and that's not my problem.

I took some legal advice on the work exposure - apparently, even if the consent order is sealed, until Decree Absolute is granted, a job change or loss could result in a judge revoking the financial agreement. Plus, there is the OBS to think about, she too need the POSOM to be working, to allow her to get a fair settlement.
Issue is, divorce might not be until early July now and by then, who knows what the work situation will be. It is frustrating but I feel the decision has to be made based on the impact on my boys.

Thanks again for kind words, they mean a lot.


----------



## MattMatt

Ah, yes! The ex who wants to be your friend!


----------



## Danny4133

@MattMatt

Legend that is Jimmy Nail, love don't live here anymore, tune and a half.......true also. 
Great guy, great songs, auf wiedersehen Mrs Melrose


----------



## JohnA

Sometimes in life it boils down to "it is what it is" so accept it and move on. So the MOM and your WW have gotten themselves into a pretty tight crack since both you and the OBS know exactly what their current reality consist of.

Both spouse know fully the status of their relationship.

The employer does not, except for possible rumors. Rumors which if proven true will at the very least result in MOM termination as he holds the supervisor position. WW may hold onto position short term to avoid possible legal issues with work place harassment as she holds the subordinate position. 

Conclusion: both Waywards are in the position of playing a game of chicken with their betrayed. They showed up to a kinife fight the opposition showed up with knives, Ozzis, and assortment of anti-personal weapons. In short as a prophet once said "a load smith and Weston in hand beats a full house in hand every time". 

Does this summary accurately portray the current situation? 

If so limit contact with OBS with the goal of maximizing division of assets and custody. Be aggressive but not greedy in your demands. Keep in mind "dumb luck, beats careful planning every time" so get it done quick. Perhaps watch the movie the sting. Yea they cleaned the guy out, but he never knew the how and why. They accept what they could do, and did no more then that. A perfect example of "revenge severed as a cold meal".


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi John, I think that is a fair summary.

Work must know but I feel the POSOM is so senior and quite a controlling bully according to the OBS, so I think they will be fear for anyone to intervene, it will be obvious they are together, I'm sure.

But like I say, we both need them to stay in jobs to allow the settlement to go through.

I am pushing for quick divorce and can't do anything to speed it up. I have played hard but fair and am agreeing with stbxw request that we move forward. She might be considering challenging me on assets, now that I've contacted OBS but I'm ok with it, my mental health and boys are more important than £.

Going to drop my disappointment about her lying about me to others. I know the truth and my good friends do too.


----------



## JohnA

Your in a great spot mentally and emotionally and to grow as an adult, a man, and a father. Learning how is a trip, but worth it. 

Yea she may try to bully you about assets, and MOM will try to bully his BS. So what !!! Falling out of an airplane out 2O,000 feet you can argue with what ever and who ever you want. In the end the discussion ends with a single noun: splat. In this matter be an ally with OBS. Only an ally. Read Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends" and read her book. Yes it is about other sex friends but like really great concepts it lends insight into every relationship. Every relationship echoes parts of it for example are you your sons best friend or their dad? 

Another great book, it's about achieving business success is 7 habits of highly successful people. (need to double check title). So is "who moved my cheese" and "the sixty second manager" to a lesser degree.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Thing about this is it's the POSOM lies. This was a private message from stbxw to her friends, she believes every word he tells her and wants to be believe the OMW is out of the picture and that everyone is going to be happy. She even wants to take the credit for all of this.
> 
> She keeps banging on (on private messages) about how everyone she knows is unhappy and that they should all leave husband's to find happiness they 'deserve'!! Lol.
> 
> (As a side note, I cannot believe stbxw hasn't changed her FB password...!).


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

POSOM lies..... do tell! In the "fog" she believes every word he says. In truth... she "should"

not even raise her hand to feel the wall if POSOM said the house was on fire.

Push this D as fast as possible..... her "ideal world" is not far away from exploding.

If you have to wait until D final to expose, then wait. Yeah... yeah... you may break a law.

If I feel a conviction about something, I do it. Break a law, well... see you in court, chips fall

where they may. If the UK is like US, they don't want you in jail, they just fine the crap out of you.

The one thing a government never has enough of.... is money.

"When you stand for nothing, you risk losing everything." Again.. that's just me.

Also exposing in 3rd person may benefit you "wiggling" around things.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> I took some legal advice on the work exposure


I would not bother with any further exposure. The OMW knows. 

They will dig their hole. Just stand (way) back and watch them frantically digging harder and harder.


----------



## Chuck71

Just enjoy this for now Melrose................


----------



## Melrose8888

First date with a 'new' friend last night. I was really nervous, much more than my previous first date, think this was down to the fact she is extremely good looking. I have lost a huge amount of confidence and self-esteem due to the infidelity, going from a really outgoing, confident guy to, what feels like, a boring and timid guy, who has to justify everything I say.

That said, we had a couple of cocktails over 2.5 hours and I managed to listen WAY more than I talked, which was good. She is stunning, intelligent, talented (artist in spare time), independent and very laid back. I couldn't help but feel I wasn't good enough for her. Interestingly, she brought up kids and I asked if she wanted to have children and she does. So I sensed that she wasn't keen on a ready made family (she knew I had kids pre-date) but rather wanted one of her own, which is totally understandable.

I guess it is all good though, getting back out there, getting to see different personalities and seeing how the dating world works these days.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hmmm. OMW just called me. POSOM has told her he is moving back to near them, so he can see his kids and for her to expect my STBXW to be there too. (He currently rents in same town as their work, my STBXW rents in my town).
This new city is a 2 hour drive from their work / my home town and therefore, the boys schools.

So, either 1) STBXW is planning a swoop to move the boys up to this location (I will fight the POS EVERY step of the way) or 2) she is going to be in my town for the week she has the boys and be 80 miles away, then commute South to her work on the week she hasn't or 3) She is going to give up parenting them except for every other weekend / plan to somehow work it out that way?

OMW also knew POSOM had applied for jobs in a town 4 hours drive away from current work / my town, so 2 hours North from their planned new location.

This is scary, primarily because of the potential impact on my boys / my co-parenting but also their general thinking and decision making>>>???


----------



## farsidejunky

Contact your solicitor right away. Get everything prepared for it to be the worst case scenario of her trying to them away.


----------



## Nucking Futs

farsidejunky said:


> Contact your solicitor right away. Get everything prepared for it to be the worst case scenario of her trying to them away.


I agree. Preventing her from moving them away is a lot easier than getting them back after the move.


----------



## Chuck71

Have your lawyer on that immediately. I wouldn't put it past her to try and move the kids.

Selfish, inconsiderate people tend to do BSC things like this.


----------



## inging

This is their relationship hitting a wall of reality. Driving around in the Discovery,going on dates and pretending they have a future just ended. The reality is that one of them has to choose not to see their kids everyday. 

It is great that you now have intel because this allows you to act. Do not underestimate the level of entitlement here. 

See your solicitor but also make your home very attractive. Your kids are young so the best you can hope for is 50/50 but maintain that the kids are welcome any time because your STBxW will have times when she wants time to "herself". 
Take advantage of the selfishness and agree to pick the kids up anytime, anywhere and it will pay dividends.

After your brief interlude of quiet the war goes on.


----------



## Chuck71

When I hear the three words a BS silently says to their WS, it is like hearing gospel music at a creek

where they still baptize people (country folk).

"It got real"


----------



## Taxman

I find that it is one of my duties as an accountant, to point out the realities of the situation. And hang my hat on what will happen in the worst case. No scenario. I find that lawyers tend to talk in optimistic scenarios. I talk realities: You are, according to the documents provided, (in my business paper talks, people lie.) going to see your children on these days. You will need to increase your income by $X in order to meet these obligations and maintain your current lifestyle etc etc etc. In my country, child support is non-taxable, spousal support is. 

The fastest balloon popper is that meeting with the accountant after a split. I have had many a fog lifted in my office. I like to call it, the "Oh **** moment."


----------



## Melrose8888

Bit of an odd week, I’ve tried to step back from all the drama and view this situation at a distance.

On Sunday, the OBS, quite understandably given the POSOM was blackmailing her by saying she had to do what he said to ensure he plays financial ball, had a bit of a wobble. She actually threw a glass at him, locked him in the annex at their house (so he had to climb out of the window!) and then wrote a text to his boss and threatened to send it to their work! Fortunately, she told me this and I was able to reminder that it is in our interests that they both earn, so she backed down and things seem calm now.

Given all that, I had to speak to the STBXW for the first time in 3 weeks or so, as she was about to freak out. I was calm, told her I am moving on and all I want is to ensure POSOM is going to be a decent man around my children and for us to achieve the agreed financial clean break and divorce ASAP (estimated date is end of May). She took it all in but still so cold and heartless, which strangely, was quite comforting to me – I know I am free of that now!

She did, once again, offer for me to meet POSOM – what are people’s thoughts on that? Personally I have no desire but on one hand, I’d quite enjoy grilling him but on the other, I think it is playing to their beat that everything will be OK / they are in control?

Interestingly, OBS tells me that the POSOM came back from a work trip from USA (where he use to take her along too) in a very reminiscing mood and gave the line ‘I know I ****ed up’ and was looking for hugs (as, apparently, he was all over Christmas & New Year). She also tells me that there is a history of mental illness in his family and his Mum thinks he is ill, which is why he is doing this. Given all the stories form his past and how he is acting now, both myself and the OBS suspect that he is a narcissist. Good luck with that, STBXW!

Last few days, I’ve noticed me grieving (not depressively, nor tearful, just mentally) the loss of life map, some more – so the one family unit, working as a team, keeping finances in check, all for the best possible future for my boys. All of that is in smoke, and I can accept that but it still disappoints me, especially as my hand has been forced on the issue of only seeing my boys (at best) half of the time. I am also reading up on my need for Validation in this marriage, really good to be able to step back and see the unhealthy nature of this - something I hope I can change.

I also realise I’m not ready to date, I’m resisting setting up a second date with an amazing girl because of this. It’s a shame but I don’t want to mess her around.

Baby steps...


----------



## SID SNOT

Melrose8888 said:


> Last few days, I’ve noticed me grieving (not depressively, nor tearful, just mentally) the loss of life map, some more – so the one family unit, working as a team, keeping finances in check, all for the best possible future for my boys. All of that is in smoke, and I can accept that but it still disappoints me, especially as my hand has been forced on the issue of only seeing my boys (at best) half of the time. I am also reading up on my need for Validation in this marriage, really good to be able to step back and see the unhealthy nature of this - something I hope I can change.
> 
> I also realise I’m not ready to date, I’m resisting setting up a second date with an amazing girl because of this. It’s a shame but I don’t want to mess her around.
> 
> Baby steps...


Hi Melrose

I can totally sympathise with the above, I am in exactly the same place. I didn't want this, I loved my wife, being part of a family, seeing my children every morning and every night. Although I thought I was, I'm also not ready to date. I met a fantastic woman at the weekend, who under other circumstances would be perfect, but emotionally I am all over the place which isn't fair on her. You are right, baby steps.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I would NEVER shake the hand of the man who destroyed my marriage...and i would tell it too his face, and i would say that to the ex in no uncertain terms. And even the boys should know.


----------



## ButtPunch

Meeting him is not a good idea.

The time will come if they stay together.


----------



## Thor

Melrose8888 said:


> She did, once again, offer for me to meet POSOM – what are people’s thoughts on that? Personally I have no desire but on one hand, I’d quite enjoy grilling him but on the other, I think it is playing to their beat that everything will be OK / they are in control?


Don't meet him yet. At some point in the future you may be in a settled frame of mind to deal with it. But I think right now it would be needlessly upsetting.


----------



## DonaldDuck666

Melrose8888 said:


> Do I give up, let her move out, carry on with divorce or give it one final try?


Why in god's name would you even consider giving this another try??? Have some respect for yourself and your kids.


----------



## browser

There will be no benefit from meeting him, nothing productive will come of it. It's not like he's going to treat your kids any differently just because you met him in person, and at this point that's all you're concerned about. 

If anything the meeting will trigger you and get the mind games rolling as you picture him with your soon to be exwife.


----------



## Melrose8888

2 months ago, the answer to this wasn't clear.

It couldn't be clearer now!

Still doesn't stop me reminiscing about what I thought we had...


----------



## bandit.45

Tell her you have no intention of shaking the OM's hand, or going out of your way to be cordial. Tell her she is out of her mind if she thinks you are just going to play nice with him.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Bit of an odd week, I’ve tried to step back from all the drama and view this situation at a distance.
> 
> On Sunday, the OBS, quite understandably given the POSOM was blackmailing her by saying she had to do what he said to ensure he plays financial ball, had a bit of a wobble. She actually threw a glass at him, locked him in the annex at their house (so he had to climb out of the window!) and then wrote a text to his boss and threatened to send it to their work! Fortunately, she told me this and I was able to reminder that it is in our interests that they both earn, so she backed down and things seem calm now.
> 
> *Given all that, I had to speak to the STBXW for the first time in 3 weeks or so, as she was about to freak out.* I was calm, told her I am moving on and all I want is to ensure POSOM is going to be a decent man around my children and for us to achieve the agreed financial clean break and divorce ASAP (estimated date is end of May). She took it all in but still so cold and heartless, which strangely, was quite comforting to me – I know I am free of that now!
> 
> Why? She's not your problem anymore. Hard 180 is in your best interest. Quit looking for excuses to contact.
> 
> She did, once again, offer for me to meet POSOM – what are people’s thoughts on that? Personally I have no desire but on one hand, I’d quite enjoy grilling him but on the other, I think it is playing to their beat that everything will be OK / they are in control?
> 
> No!!! Just looking for the "lets be friends game". Not in your best interest. Again why are you engaging her. Stop!!!!
> 
> Interestingly, OBS tells me that the POSOM came back from a work trip from USA (where he use to take her along too) in a very reminiscing mood and gave the line ‘I know I ****ed up’ and was looking for hugs (as, apparently, he was all over Christmas & New Year). She also tells me that there is a history of mental illness in his family and his Mum thinks he is ill, which is why he is doing this. Given all the stories form his past and how he is acting now, both myself and the OBS suspect that he is a narcissist. Good luck with that, STBXW!
> 
> Last few days, I’ve noticed me grieving (not depressively, nor tearful, just mentally) the loss of life map, some more – so the one family unit, working as a team, keeping finances in check, all for the best possible future for my boys. All of that is in smoke, and I can accept that but it still disappoints me, especially as my hand has been forced on the issue of only seeing my boys (at best) half of the time. I am also reading up on my need for Validation in this marriage, really good to be able to step back and see the unhealthy nature of this - something I hope I can change.
> 
> This is why you need to stop any unnecessary contact. Wake up!!! It just drags you back down.
> 
> I also realise I’m not ready to date, I’m resisting setting up a second date with an amazing girl because of this. It’s a shame but I don’t want to mess her around.
> 
> Baby steps...


----------



## browser

Melrose8888 said:


> Still doesn't stop me reminiscing about what I thought we had...


That's the last thing that goes away.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Bit of an odd week, I’ve tried to step back from all the drama and view this situation at a distance.
> 
> On Sunday, the OBS, quite understandably given the POSOM was blackmailing her by saying she had to do what he said to ensure he plays financial ball, had a bit of a wobble. She actually threw a glass at him, locked him in the annex at their house (so he had to climb out of the window!) and then wrote a text to his boss and threatened to send it to their work! Fortunately, she told me this and I was able to reminder that it is in our interests that they both earn, so she backed down and things seem calm now.
> 
> Given all that, I had to speak to the STBXW for the first time in 3 weeks or so, as she was about to freak out. I was calm, told her I am moving on and all I want is to ensure POSOM is going to be a decent man around my children and for us to achieve the agreed financial clean break and divorce ASAP (estimated date is end of May). She took it all in but still so cold and heartless, which strangely, was quite comforting to me – I know I am free of that now!
> 
> She did, once again, offer for me to meet POSOM – what are people’s thoughts on that? Personally I have no desire but on one hand, I’d quite enjoy grilling him but on the other, I think it is playing to their beat that everything will be OK / they are in control?
> 
> Interestingly, OBS tells me that the POSOM came back from a work trip from USA (where he use to take her along too) in a very reminiscing mood and gave the line ‘I know I ****ed up’ and was looking for hugs (as, apparently, he was all over Christmas & New Year). She also tells me that there is a history of mental illness in his family and his Mum thinks he is ill, which is why he is doing this. Given all the stories form his past and how he is acting now, both myself and the OBS suspect that he is a narcissist. Good luck with that, STBXW!
> 
> Last few days, I’ve noticed me grieving (not depressively, nor tearful, just mentally) the loss of life map, some more – so the one family unit, working as a team, keeping finances in check, all for the best possible future for my boys. All of that is in smoke, and I can accept that but it still disappoints me, especially as my hand has been forced on the issue of only seeing my boys (at best) half of the time. I am also reading up on my need for Validation in this marriage, really good to be able to step back and see the unhealthy nature of this - something I hope I can change.
> 
> I also realise I’m not ready to date, I’m resisting setting up a second date with an amazing girl because of this. It’s a shame but I don’t want to mess her around.
> 
> Baby steps...


Meet the POSOM???? Seriously? Add in the fact mental illness runs in his family.... you should ask 

the judge for a psychological evaluation on him before he is permitted to be around your boys.

If you're not ready to date, don't. Your speed, your time table. Just remember... dating and seeking 

a LTR are two totally different things. Dating should be to have a blast, not to analyse the possibility

of that person being the next "The One." But most people don't see it that way. One thing I hear very often

from females today is -I hate dating- which tells me they are desperate for a LTR.

And what do desperate people do a lot of......... making bad choices.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> 2 months ago, the answer to this wasn't clear.
> 
> It couldn't be clearer now!
> 
> Still doesn't stop me reminiscing about what I thought we had...


That sure rings my memory bell. I knew long before DDay things weren't right with my now XW.

But I had this sillya$$ belief that once M, always M. How 1970 of me!

This one takes me back to maybe six months before DDay.... I was at the back deck brainstorming

for my 2nd book. Had late 80s music playing since the book started around that time.

The song hit me like a tank


----------



## Melrose8888

Ah, Chuck, you always cheer me up!
Never heard of this crew, they seem confused to whether they want to be GnR, Def Leppard or Bon Jovi! 
What was your 2nd book about? Lots of respect for those with true artistic talent.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Ah, Chuck, you always cheer me up!
> Never heard of this crew, they seem confused to whether they want to be GnR, Def Leppard or Bon Jovi!


Queensryche was huge in the States up until the mid-90s. That's about when music completely 

turned into schit. GnR is pretty much a -stand alone- band, one of a kind. Axl did get back with GnR

last year and played at the Troubadour. Bon Jovi.... that was my "coming of age" band.... Slippery when Wet

1986-87. They were hungry then. I haven't seen them hungry since then. But maybe it's just me,

expecting every album to be as good or mean as much to me as SWW. That's virtually impossible.

As for Def Leppard... Queensryche opened for them in 1988 and they kicked DL's arse. DL had the #1 hit

the week of the show -Love Bites- and took two encores for them to play it. Quite a few people

walked out of the arena. Below is Queensryche live in Germany about a month after I saw them.


----------



## bandit.45

If I recall, Geoff Tate was classically trained in opera.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> 2 months ago, the answer to this wasn't clear.
> 
> It couldn't be clearer now!
> 
> Still doesn't stop me reminiscing about what I thought we had...


She has shown you and told you who she is but you still don't want to believe her. 

Every time you engage or contact her you get met with cold callousness but yet you still try.

Quit letting your heart override your brain. It's betraying you by holding onto that faint sliver of hope that she'll have an epiphany and come back.

All contact gets you now is to tell her how much more woth she has than you (she doesn't) and you are weak. If you pursue or contact they move farther away. Always.

Quit keeping yourself in limbo hell. You know better.


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> If I recall, Geoff Tate was classically trained in opera.


I have heard that before but never saw it being verified. When I had the garage band right after

HS, we "wanted" to be GnR, Queensryche, Metallica, Skid Row, et. al. but none of us could come nowhere near

the high notes. I mean, schit, we were all Southern boys. So we slid into Survivor, 38 Special,

Tangier, Sammy Hagar, et. al. Looking back, we weren't half bad. Course we expected to be opening

for Ratt, Poison, Winger, or Cinderella by 1994-95. LOL ... by then we weren't around anymore 

and neither were they. We still jam at the lake from time to time. We sound like crap now

but we still have a blast and most of the crowd is too drunk to care!

There was a band, Band of Angels, out of Chattanooga back in the late 80s.... they never made

it and they were 10x better than us. Dr. Starr ... they never made it and they were awesome.

If you like cheesy 80s beach / teen hijinks and romance, check out Beach Balls (1988). Dr. Starr did the 

entire soundtrack.


----------



## inging

As everyone says.. 

The reason she wants you to meet the OM is to validate the new relationship she is in. 
Don't ever meet him. Don't ever validate this. This guy knowingly pursued a married woman with two kids. Your kids will work out that he is the one that took their Mum away half the time.. 

Your STBxW is a cold and calculating because that is always how she is with people who do not give her what she wants.


Stay frosty to her and stay out of drama. That is what she craves. She wants a reaction from you to prove she still matters to you. Then she can go back to her new man feeling good. 

The week without your kids.
It is a weird life. It can be lonely and the house will feel very empty. I started going out.. Joined meetup. I can't tell you how good that was. Went rollerskating, walking, met some cool women. Went to see bands. A no pressure date..


----------



## GusPolinski

I'd only consider meeting him for the opportunity to a) nearly break his hand or pull his arm out of the socket shaking it and b) get in his face to explain to him exactly what will happen to him should he harm my children.

Neither would be terribly productive though.

Probably the opposite.

Way too soon to even think about it, IMO.

And yeah, she just wants the validation.

Still, I'd take every opportunity to learn as much about him as possible.

Think PI.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> I also realise I’m not ready to date, I’m resisting setting up a second date with an amazing girl because of this. It’s a shame but I don’t want to mess her around.
> 
> Baby steps...



This is good. Maybe another time with this women. Don't meet the other guy unless you have to, I would never shake his hand. He is garbage. Your ex is doomed if he is a narcissist which is what he sounds like.

She sounds like garbage though so you deserve each other. No one would be impressed by them if they new the true story they would just feel sorry for whoever is with them. This is why holding on to people who are really worth so little in a relationship is a mistake. Most personally would feel badly for fokes in a relationship with these types. You are SO much better off. 

See the other man, how pathetic. Is she crazy?


----------



## inging

sokillme said:


> See the other man, how pathetic. Is she crazy?


Jeez. Get with the program.. 

Don't you know that if they met Melrose would immediately recognise what a good idea this was. That her new guy would be better for all of them in the end. That he is a deeply intelligent spiritual man who has her best interests at heart as well as the children. 
In fact ( as soon as melrose can get past his immature feelings) then can all have a BBQ and laugh about it.

Closes sarcasm tag.


----------



## bandit.45

Chuck71 said:


> I have heard that before but never saw it being verified. When I had the garage band right after
> 
> HS, we "wanted" to be GnR, Queensryche, Metallica, Skid Row, et. al. but none of us could come nowhere near
> 
> the high notes. I mean, schit, we were all Southern boys. So we slid into Survivor, 38 Special,
> 
> Tangier, Sammy Hagar, et. al. Looking back, we weren't half bad. Course we expected to be opening
> 
> for Ratt, Poison, Winger, or Cinderella by 1994-95. LOL ... by then we weren't around anymore
> 
> and neither were they. We still jam at the lake from time to time. We sound like crap now
> 
> but we still have a blast and most of the crowd is too drunk to care!
> 
> There was a band, Band of Angels, out of Chattanooga back in the late 80s.... they never made
> 
> it and they were 10x better than us. Dr. Starr ... they never made it and they were awesome.
> 
> If you like cheesy 80s beach / teen hijinks and romance, check out Beach Balls (1988). Dr. Starr did the
> 
> entire soundtrack.


One of my fave bands during the '80s was a band called Kindom Come. They had a really cool lead singer and had a definite Led Zeppelin vibe. I also dug White Lion. Vito Bratta was one of my favorite guitarists to come out of that era.


----------



## Melrose8888

I had to contact her, she was threatening to get solicitors back involved in our separation agreements and I am about to sign up for the house for me and my boys, so it was a preventative measure. First phone call to her in over 6 weeks.

I hate the drama and she is welcome to it and him. Last thing I need is her thinking I validate anything she's done.

Mid-May, this is all over, the only comms are about the kids and even then, I expect that to be minimal.

ing - the tongue in cheek BBQ story, is EXACTLY where the STBXWs head is right now. She really thinks it all is going to be OK....yeah, good luck with that!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888;17496978What was your 2nd book about? Lots of respect for those with true artistic talent.[/QUOTE said:


> The 2nd book of the trilogy covers the years 1990-2009. The main character is Mike Thomas. There are several lead females.... Angie Collins and Cara Miller who were introduced in the 1st book, and Nikki Cartwright in the 2nd. Holly Thomas plays a pivotal role in the 2nd, being she is Mike's daughter he was not aware of until she was four years old.
> 
> Thomas and me have a lot in common, where most ask if the book is about me. Well... I don't have kids, MT does. I have an excerpt in Crossroads II, May 2015, I's tink. It was near the end of book 2.


----------



## Melrose8888

Oh dear, what a difficult few days. I'm stuck in grieving for what might have been, the loss of one family unit - since i had kids, this is all i focused in on for life. The boys were my life and now they are barely half of it and this situation is nothing I'd ever consider being acceptable.

What triggers it, is when have my boys. In the joint calendar (used to arrange childcare to avoid comms) 9/10 when i have them it is written 'stbxw Unavailable' and i known this means she is away, staying in nice hotel and shagging the posom. I know i shouldn't care but i can't cope. The mind movies kill me.

As positive steps, i have just forced me to stop snooping at her Facebook, by removing the device from the safe list and even further i have actually unfriended the stbxw (and given the amount of photos of my boys on her wall, this was a very tough decision).

It's 3 months tomorrow since d-day but today, it felt as fresh as it ever has and i given i have at least 14 years of co-parenting with this pos, i cannot see how I'm going to cope


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh dear, what a difficult few days. I'm stuck in grieving for what might have been, the loss of one family unit - since i had kids, this is all i focused in on for life. The boys were my life and now they are barely half of it and this situation is nothing I'd ever consider being acceptable.
> 
> What triggers it, is when have my boys. In the joint calendar (used to arrange childcare to avoid comms) 9/10 when i have them it is written 'stbxw Unavailable' and i known this means she is away, staying in nice hotel and shagging the posom. I know i shouldn't care but i can't cope. The mind movies kill me.
> 
> As positive steps, i have just forced me to stop snooping at her Facebook, by removing the device from the safe list and even further i have actually unfriended the stbxw (and given the amount of photos of my boys on her wall, this was a very tough decision).
> 
> It's 3 months tomorrow since d-day but today, it felt as fresh as it ever has and i given i have at least 14 years of co-parenting with this pos, i cannot see how I'm going to cope


STOP snooping on FB. FB is bullschit, it's high school mentality. Your focus is you, and the kids.

WETF you married, the mule, trollop, skank, WTFE... is of ZERO concern to you. You should honestly

pity the POSOM for having to deal with her now. He and your WW.... set you free Melrose.

Do you recall the Romanian Revolution in 1989? Communist dictator Ceaușescu? He was a 

"cult of personality." Just like your WW. What became of him? Hint.... 12-25-89. Your WW is a supernova and

will explode, all bright and shiny.... then after she is forced to eat her 12 inch schit sandwich, she

will turn into a white dwarf. How attractive is that LOL. In the meantime, you will be Melrose 2.0

and your kids will enjoy it. So will a lucky female. You have the upper hand and do not even realize it.

But I get it, you're hurt. But STOP snooping.... no gain will come from it.

It's over with her.... you should not care if she sets up a booth in Newcastle upon Tyne and sells

her "wares" on a street corner. When it's over, it's over. You, kids, and that is your ONLY concern.

Don't make me 2x4 you.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh dear, what a difficult few days. I'm stuck in grieving for what might have been, the loss of one family unit - since i had kids, this is all i focused in on for life. The boys were my life and now they are barely half of it and this situation is nothing I'd ever consider being acceptable.
> 
> What triggers it, is when have my boys. In the joint calendar (used to arrange childcare to avoid comms) 9/10 when i have them it is written 'stbxw Unavailable' and i known this means she is away, staying in nice hotel and shagging the posom. I know i shouldn't care but i can't cope. The mind movies kill me.
> 
> As positive steps, i have just forced me to stop snooping at her Facebook, by removing the device from the safe list and even further i have actually unfriended the stbxw (and given the amount of photos of my boys on her wall, this was a very tough decision).
> 
> *It's 3 months tomorrow since d-day but today, it felt as fresh as it ever has and i given i have at least 14 years of co-parenting with this pos, i cannot see how I'm going to cope*


Every time you engage or snoop at this point is detrimental to you. Purge everything about her and keep a hard 180. Get rid of everything in your home. Pics, mementos, etc

At this time your own actions are keeping you in a bad place


----------



## Melrose8888

Keep the wood at bay, Chuck, i hear ya!

Yep Marc, quite right, that is why i took the snooping ability away from me today. I knew that was setting me back.

Actually took boys to print photos of us today, let them choose and frame them. All hanging up right now. Feels positive, just sad there are only 3 of us in them. I've always been a traditional family man of 4...


----------



## Chuck71

Your loving wife of years past, died in an accident. Her husband is left to raise two children alone.

But he WILL make it. Write an obituary about her death if you need to.

Because as far as you are concerned, the woman you married IS dead.


----------



## Danny4133

I feel your pain Melrose. I know this journey you're on mate and the only word I can describe to come close to it is - Brutal.

Brutal it is mate, but trust in yourself, trust in your ability to heal and come back from this because you will mate, I 100% promise you you will!.

You'll never be the same again, neither will I, but would we want to be? For if anything is be gained from this you need to understand the journey. Yes I'm 9 months in now, some days, some hours Are hard. But you know, I accept that's ok, that's how it's going to be until God knows when. 

I certainly know that I've never and will never of experienced such pain as the abuse infidelity has done to me. But with that understanding and acceptance comes resilance, hope, and Opportunity to Re wire myself and galvinise myself. I'll never be put in that place again. Think how this applys to you pal. Don't why away from self introspection, it's necessary to check in with yourself and put yourself first at times. Go spoil yourself a bit with a massage, haircut, night with the guys, watch a game of footy. 

Get out and stroll around, challenge yourself, what's your fears? Heights? Go indoor rock climbing. What ever it may be take a leap of faith now and again.

Healing isn't a race mate, a lot needs to go through you, you need to let the process happen. Things will be bumpy for a good while yet. But open the door to it and pull up a chair. We aren't defined by this, but we will take lessons from it. We will be some tough MF once through the factory Floor reconditioned and upgraded. Think A team montage lol.

While accepting this don't ever let it beat you though chap, as if you do your kids will be hurt by this, and POS STBX POSOM have successfully engaged and struck Target.

Stop the snooping because that's regressive and is pain shopping. The focus needs to shift from the pond life to your future with your two kids. The bond you can build with them two will make you a force, unbreakable. And trust me mate they need you, and boy they are really going to need you more in the future because ex will absolutely crash and burn. 

Don't wait with the marshmallows though. You'll stay stuck holding for the Karma. You can bring the Karma by slowly rebuilding and taking those steps forward. And you will mate.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Hang in there M8. We all had backslides. Pick yourself up. Dust yourself off. Take another step, just like you did. Keep taking those steps.......one at a time. It will get easier.


----------



## Marc878

Take all the crap left and have a bonfire in the back yard. You and the kids can roast marshmallows 

Out with the old in with the new.

Don't leave anything that says she was once there. Pics on the PC-delete

A new beginning!!!!


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> I had to contact her, she was threatening to get solicitors back involved in our separation agreements and I am about to sign up for the house for me and my boys, so it was a preventative measure. First phone call to her in over 6 weeks.
> 
> I hate the drama and she is welcome to it and him. Last thing I need is her thinking I validate anything she's done.
> 
> Mid-May, this is all over, the only comms are about the kids and even then, I expect that to be minimal.
> 
> ing - the tongue in cheek BBQ story, is EXACTLY where the STBXWs head is right now. She really thinks it all is going to be OK....yeah, good luck with that!


The plan your WS has is that you will meet him, realise he is a good chap, that you will meet another woman, marry her and then all four of you will have lovely civilised dinner parties together, perhaps with her OM's ex and her new bloke, too.

Dangerous stuff, unicorn milk milkshakes.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh dear, what a difficult few days. I'm stuck in grieving for what might have been, the loss of one family unit - since i had kids, this is all i focused in on for life. The boys were my life and now they are barely half of it and this situation is nothing I'd ever consider being acceptable.


That is the long term cost that you instinctively knew and tore you apart. It is okay to be stay angry about that. 



Melrose8888 said:


> What triggers it, is when have my boys. In the joint calendar (used to arrange childcare to avoid comms) 9/10 when i have them it is written 'stbxw Unavailable' and i known this means she is away, staying in nice hotel and shagging the posom. I know i shouldn't care but i can't cope. The mind movies kill me.


It is there to do exactly what it is doing to you.. She is being "unavailable" because she is waiting..That is her life. She will have to wait. Clear her calendar. Wait.. wait wait..



Melrose8888 said:


> As positive steps, i have just forced me to stop snooping at her Facebook, by removing the device from the safe list and even further i have actually unfriended the stbxw (and given the amount of photos of my boys on her wall, this was a very tough decision).


Well done Melrose. You need to create some new memories with your boys. Take some photos when you do things.


Melrose8888 said:


> It's 3 months tomorrow since d-day but today, it felt as fresh as it ever has and i given i have at least 14 years of co-parenting with this pos, i cannot see how I'm going to cope


It is fresh. I am SIX years out after a 25 years together and for a long time I did not know if I could cope. Thing is though. You don't have a choice. Your STBXW is not reliable. It is your job to be reliable and I that that hurts. 
I think the hardest thing is giving up hope that you can get your life back. You can't . You literally have to build a new one. 
Let go off the past as quickly as you can. Rip the previous life to shreds and start again. Choose what you want with no reference to her. 
Your family is you and your boys. Make it a good one! 

*Single Dad Tip #2*
Buy that (expensive) Sound system you always wanted. Turn it up loud and dance like a crazy person in the living room.


----------



## Evinrude58

Melrose.

Accept it. That's the hardest part. Nothing you can do. Your wife screwed you over. 

Embrace it. Change is hard. You probably were just like me and questioned God's plans for you. Worry that He's given up on you and left you in this because of something you did in the past, or didn't do. That is NOT true. You're being given a gift and just can't see that---- YET.
Know that only from this fiery furnace you're in inside your mind, that heat is going to temper your steel. From it will come a new man. And that new man will have been forced to be better. You'll see that nothing is permanent. That you are not in control of things. You will be a lot more able than most to start valuing the good things in life.

Don't allow your love and your memories of who you thought your wife was, to be used against you in the worst way possible. 

Pack her stuff and if you want to be respected in her eyes and respect yourself--- never show her again in the slightest way that she exists as a person to you.


----------



## MattMatt

Any of her stuff left at home? Have it placed in storage.


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks all, still tough today but great to wake up with my sons here and playing so nicely in, what we now call, 'the boys house'!

Great not to be tempted to look at FB / what she is doing and saying. Real positive move that and can't believe I didn't do it earlier.

She moved out in Jan, took most of her stuff but that very day I returned, I went round EVERY single nook and cranny and made sure EVERY single trace of her was gone. The only thing is a box that is full of all the wedding day stuff (and both of our wedding / engagement rings, as she left them on the side the day she moved out). Still undecided what to do about all of that but its well out of sight / mind.

I think it is in my nature to be fairly in control (not controlling) but wanting all of the information and facts before acting, so that is a change to be made but not necessarily a bad one.

We'll keep going, Danny!


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 have you thought about giving your house a new name or giving it a first name if it had no name at the moment?

Something that reflects the fact that you are divesting yourself of a cheating wife and forging a new life for you and your boys?


----------



## browser

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888 have you thought about giving your house a new name or giving it a first name if it had no name at the moment?
> 
> Something that reflects the fact that you are divesting yourself of a cheating wife and forging a new life for you and your boys?


Houses have names?


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks all, still tough today but great to wake up with my sons here and playing so nicely in, what we now call, 'the boys house'!
> 
> Great not to be tempted to look at FB / what she is doing and saying. Real positive move that and can't believe I didn't do it earlier.
> 
> She moved out in Jan, took most of her stuff but that very day I returned, I went round EVERY single nook and cranny and made sure EVERY single trace of her was gone. The only thing is a box that is full of all the wedding day stuff (and both of our wedding / engagement rings, as she left them on the side the day she moved out). Still undecided what to do about all of that but its well out of sight / mind.
> 
> I think it is in my nature to be fairly in control (not controlling) but wanting all of the information and facts before acting, so that is a change to be made but not necessarily a bad one.
> 
> We'll keep going, Danny!


Sell the rings and do something memorable with the kids


----------



## MattMatt

browser said:


> Houses have names?


Yes. It's quite a common thing.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/000-House-...1489342409&sr=1-106&keywords=names+for+houses


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh dear, what a difficult few days. I'm stuck in grieving for what might have been, the loss of one family unit - since i had kids, this is all i focused in on for life. The boys were my life and now they are barely half of it and this situation is nothing I'd ever consider being acceptable.
> 
> What triggers it, is when have my boys. In the joint calendar (used to arrange childcare to avoid comms) 9/10 when i have them it is written 'stbxw Unavailable' and i known this means she is away, staying in nice hotel and shagging the posom. I know i shouldn't care but i can't cope. The mind movies kill me.
> 
> As positive steps, i have just forced me to stop snooping at her Facebook, by removing the device from the safe list and even further i have actually unfriended the stbxw (and given the amount of photos of my boys on her wall, this was a very tough decision).
> 
> It's 3 months tomorrow since d-day but today, it felt as fresh as it ever has and i given i have at least 14 years of co-parenting with this pos, i cannot see how I'm going to cope


Man you do yourself no favors. Quit romanticizing this. You were never going to have that life with this disloyal woman. You know what you can still have it with someone else. Your life is not over dude. I have been their, not with the kids part but with the feeling that all my dreams are done. But I was SO wrong. My life has been better then even what I had before. You can't see it yet but allow yourself to start dreaming again. There are hundreds of thousands of women that you can choose from. Seriously you need to start using your logical brain to control your emotions. When you feel this way remind yourself of everything I just wrote and then force yourself to think of something else.

Write letters to your future wife, about how you feel. You don't have to show anyone but it will help you. Trust me you will have trips and times with your kids and just daily love with someone else. It won't happen until you give up on this bad person. See her for what she is. The sooner you move on, the sooner you can get over it, the sooner you will be ready for the right person. Most of all stop romanticizing someone who treated you like crap. They don't deserve it.

One other thing. Some of the best advice I ever got was, remember if you can get through this you can get through anything. This is your emotional boot-camp. If you use it as such, once you get it over and done and you don't feel the pain anymore you will operate from so much strength in life, you will never fear being cheated on again. You will fear in a shallow, oh **** I am going to have to do a lot of work to find a place to live type way. Not a oh **** I will never be happy again type way. Trust me, that is the one good thing that can come out of this. Learn this and you will be a benefit to you and anyone you are with because it will allow you to be totally honest.


----------



## sidney2718

Marc878 said:


> Sell the rings and do something memorable with the kids


Agreed, but wait until the divorce is final.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hmmm, house name. Fidelity Towers?!

On that note, meant to mention, it's not the affair that is getting to me (so easy to see how it happened) it's the fact someone walked away from an 85% decent marriage / family, without even blinking an eye. As if it was a decision on whether to have pizza or curry for dinner. Still, as per advice here, I've given up trying to understand, just be nice to think people aren't that strange but then, the stories on here show that is unrealistic.

Rings are probably only worth a few hundred quid but nice idea to treat boys once divorce is absolute.

I'm up for an emotional boot camp but the kids are a rewarding, yet draining main responsibility before i can fully embrace that. I also am a little concerned about the 4 year old only being around his mother 50% of the time. Even if she is BSC, my gut tells me he needs to see her more until he's a couple of years older?


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> On that note, meant to mention, it's not the affair that is getting to me (so easy to see how it happened) it's the fact someone walked away from an 85% decent marriage / family, without even blinking an eye.


OK, and think about that logically. Would this be a good choice in a person to spend the rest of your life with. Life is hard. Her way of dealing with that was cheating and then leaving. How could you or anyone else have a good marriage with a person who acts like that. This kind of decision making makes her a poor choice. Some things aren't meant to be. Her having a long marriage is one of them. Remind yourself of that and accept it.


----------



## Affaircare

Melrose8888 said:


> I'm up for an emotional boot camp but the kids are a rewarding, yet draining main responsibility before i can fully embrace that. I also am a little concerned about the 4 year old only being around his mother 50% of the time. Even if she is BSC, my gut tells me he needs to see her more until he's a couple of years older?


Speaking as a mom of seven, I would disagree with your "gut" that says he needs to be with his mom more than 50% of the time until he's a couple years older. What he REALLY NEEDS is to be with a parent--male or female--who will take the time and effort to PARENT HIM. This means not just "feeding and clothing" but also spending time with him, getting to know him, caring about his interests, and teaching him how to be an adult one day. Children are observant, and they mimic, so he will learn how to be "who he is" by watching the adult person he's with, and doing what they do. The idea is to have children with a parent who will teach them personal responsibility, honor, and morals BY TEACHING BY EXAMPLE. 

I'm not talking bad about your STBXW, but from what I can determine, her life right now would teach the 4yo that being self-focused is appropriate, that he is a burden, that blaming others for what you choose is acceptable, that running away from the truth is how you deal with unpleasantness, and that lying and cheating can be explained away. As his PARENT you can teach him, by your life, that it is loving to think of others, that he is wanted and valued, that when he does something wrong he can admit it and he's safe, that facing the truth is the wisest way to deal with hard time, and that honesty and honor are the way to live. 

So ... you tell me @Melrose8888.


----------



## Melrose8888

Indeed, Affaircare. I wish i could get the stbxw to read your post. But we all know how she'd react...

I guess i am just aware that a mother and son bond is so important, he will get all of what you said from me (and I genuinely appreciate the reminder of my responsibilities) but i still believe that bond is vital. I just want the best for them long term. I'm very confident that when they are older, they will settle with me but for now, consistency and doing what is expected seems best.


----------



## Danny4133

I also am a little concerned about the 4 year old only being around his mother 50% of the time. Even if she is BSC, my gut tells me he needs to see her more until he's a couple of years older?

I don't think so mate.
Obviously every situation is diffrent but your STBX puts her self and her needs first. My 2 yea 2 years old at the time loves me follows me round and comes a running when I go pick her up from STBX. I have a better connection than STBX ever did with my 6 year old, that always reckled her and it took me a while and several 3rd party opinions to conclude.

I'm emotionally available and open to my girls, I hug them, kiss them reassure them. Praise them, yes tell them off when they need it too. But she doesn't, she's a bit cold and her affection seems forced somewhat. 

Think about this and how it applies to you Melrose. Think about her gaps and how you can over compensate.

I don't agree that more than 50% with ex will have any benefits. Keeping kids together being the stable one and showing what you as a leader of the pack does. How you responded, stood up for yourself and rebuilt Your life after adversity.

This happened to my mum (1 of 7 kids) her ma pissed off with POS. She was 6 and recounts how Gramps responded. He was a leader, she is an alpha, now that's learned behaviour of the good type. 

Never underestimate.
Do it mate and it will be remembered.


----------



## inging

Your 4 year old is going to ask the older kids what happened. They will all have different accounts of the events but ultimately they will find the truth.

Their mother put them second and they know that is not right. You know that is wrong. Everyone knows it.

Society is harsh on people, particularly women, of children who leave a family because they "fell in love" . That level of selfishness is mind boggling. 

This does not include the situation where a man is abusive. Women should get out of that as fast as possible and take the children with them!
And This is why you have to be so careful now. For your STBXW to move from 'selfish" to "wronged" she needs to create a narrative where you were abusive to regain her position in society.. Document. Keep doing the Dad thing and provide a stable home that can not be slurred. If you are going to date sooner than later make sure it is all above board.

It was over 18 months later that I found out from other people that apparently i had been abusive. It tends to have little impact when your kids are clearly happier at your place.

Tip no3
Drive away scurvy..
2 lemons roughly chopped and then peeled, rosemary, olive oil and lots of salt. mix it up .. serve with seared mammoth and boiled spuds with butter.. Margarine must be removed from the house immediately  


He is better with you at the Boys house with someone who puts him first.


----------



## SID SNOT

Hi Melrose

My STBXW had numerous affairs throughout our marriage, I know about 5, no doubt there were others. She gave absolutely no consideration to our children whilst she was sleeping around our town, conducting the relationships during family time and whilst running up debts on credit cards. 

Now. Since I have been aware of these affairs she has carried out a smear campaign against me with parents at school, teachers, and all of our mutual family and friends. Apparently I was the reason for the break up as I was verbally, physically, and financially abusive, controlling, possessive, jealous etc, etc. The sad thing is that people have sided with her and in trying to defend myself and telling the truth in a series of emails, I was convicted with harassment. She is now trying to use this against me in family court to get full custody of our children. 

Tread very carefully mate. It sounds like your STBXW may well also be a sociopath and will stop at nothing to get what she wants. Keep you nose clean, document absolutely everything, absolute minimal contact, make any child care arrangements as clear and water tight as possible. Get yourself the best solicitor available, potentially someone that has dealt with this type of personality disorder before. 

Cheers

Sid


----------



## 2ntnuf

The start of it is so easy. No contact with you or limited and then she wants to be nice and you feel things for her she does not. She hates you and has to, or she would not have done these things. Doesn't matter what her reason is now. It only matters that you do not let yourself fall too far backward into some feelings of love and possessiveness. Those are the feelings that will make you self-righteous and force you to do something stupid in a moment. 

Just realize what all these folks are telling you, is true! It isn't something to make you feel bad or jealousy of any kind. It is hurtful only if you still pine a little for her. Don't let yourself. Stay busy and be sympathetic and kind to yourself. 

Don't worry about those kids. You will be a great dad and they will be fine. They just need your love. They don't see their mum when they look at you. They see you. They don't feel what you feel. They only don't understand and wish things could be different. They don't understand. They are innocent and naïve. Please don't project your feelings onto them. Let them be themselves.


----------



## Chuck71

SID SNOT said:


> Hi Melrose
> 
> My STBXW had numerous affairs throughout our marriage, I know about 5, no doubt there were others. She gave absolutely no consideration to our children whilst she was sleeping around our town, conducting the relationships during family time and whilst running up debts on credit cards.
> 
> Now. Since I have been aware of these affairs she has carried out a smear campaign against me with parents at school, teachers, and all of our mutual family and friends. Apparently I was the reason for the break up as* I was verbally, physically, and financially abusive*, controlling, possessive, jealous etc, etc. The sad thing is that people have sided with her and in trying to defend myself and telling the truth in a series of emails, I was convicted with harassment. She is now trying to use this against me in family court to get full custody of our children.
> 
> Tread very carefully mate. It sounds like your STBXW may well also be a sociopath and will stop at nothing to get what she wants. Keep you nose clean, document absolutely everything, absolute minimal contact, make any child care arrangements as clear and water tight as possible. Get yourself the best solicitor available, potentially someone that has dealt with this type of personality disorder before.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sid


I want that Hermes handbag!

Honey we can't, maybe later.

No... I want the handbag!

Honey we have a mortgage to pay. The whole family can't sleep in a Hermes.

You are abusing me, I'm going to cheat!

............And they wonder why we treat them as 5 y/o kids


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... most humans, if given the chance between the hell they do not know and the hell they

know, will choose the hell they know. It's familiarity, at least you know what you are getting into.

Dimly lit path or.... dark path. I have had 4-5 dark moments in my life, some darker than others.

Each time I strode towards the dark path, I knew it was not where I had been. Every damn time,

after the first few hillsides were climbed, a bright Sun shone down. There is not a damn thing

wrong with fearing change, refusing it though, is where many go wrong. Today... many people are 

either ultra-religious or not at all. I guess my fat arse is in the middle. I detest "organized religion"

but I do believe in monotheism. Not for everyone, just my deal. But you have to believe in something....

yourself, your kids, your parents / aunts / uncles / etc. Tell ya what.... try this.....

7/26 is my birthday. Set that date to be in such a better place. Set attainable goals, 5 easy, 5 semi-difficult,

5 long range. Chances are you will not go 15 / 15. But that's your start. About the 4 y/o.... 

ever think his "mom" may leave him in front of tele with tablet while she shags her POS OM?

You are giving her too much credit. Both my parents were very sharp financially. Pop started teaching

me but expected you to learn EVERYTHING the first time. I quit wanting to learn from him because

I was not fond of being cussed out all the time. Mom sat me down, patience, I learned.

That always bothered / pizzed pop off mom taught me. Whose fault was that again???


----------



## Melrose8888

SID SNOT said:


> Hi Melrose
> 
> My STBXW had numerous affairs throughout our marriage, I know about 5, no doubt there were others. She gave absolutely no consideration to our children whilst she was sleeping around our town, conducting the relationships during family time and whilst running up debts on credit cards.
> 
> Now. Since I have been aware of these affairs she has carried out a smear campaign against me with parents at school, teachers, and all of our mutual family and friends. Apparently I was the reason for the break up as I was verbally, physically, and financially abusive, controlling, possessive, jealous etc, etc. The sad thing is that people have sided with her and in trying to defend myself and telling the truth in a series of emails, I was convicted with harassment. She is now trying to use this against me in family court to get full custody of our children.
> 
> Tread very carefully mate. It sounds like your STBXW may well also be a sociopath and will stop at nothing to get what she wants. Keep you nose clean, document absolutely everything, absolute minimal contact, make any child care arrangements as clear and water tight as possible. Get yourself the best solicitor available, potentially someone that has dealt with this type of personality disorder before.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sid


Hi Sid - I read your thread a few weeks ago and couldn't believe what happened to you. I am sorry you ended up with the charge - if it can be positive, it did make me reassess my exposure plans and, in fact, instead I just contacted the OBW, to ensure we both knew what we needed to do, to get to divorce without rocking the boat.

Full 180 in progress and I can only pray, until the D is final around June time, that the narcisstic POSOM doesn't manage to influence her anymore than he already has.


----------



## Melrose8888

2ntnuf said:


> The start of it is so easy. No contact with you or limited and then she wants to be nice and you feel things for her she does not. She hates you and has to, or she would not have done these things. Doesn't matter what her reason is now. It only matters that you do not let yourself fall too far backward into some feelings of love and possessiveness. Those are the feelings that will make you self-righteous and force you to do something stupid in a moment.
> 
> Just realize what all these folks are telling you, is true! It isn't something to make you feel bad or jealousy of any kind. It is hurtful only if you still pine a little for her. Don't let yourself. Stay busy and be sympathetic and kind to yourself.
> 
> Don't worry about those kids. You will be a great dad and they will be fine. They just need your love. They don't see their mum when they look at you. They see you. They don't feel what you feel. They only don't understand and wish things could be different. They don't understand. They are innocent and naïve. Please don't project your feelings onto them. Let them be themselves.


We are down to minimum possible comms that co-parents of 2 small boys can possibly be and I do feel the benefit of that. I don't want her back, I know I am better off without her, I just fall back into the old life dreams but I will make a list of new dreams (15 in 4 months, Chuck?!? OK, will try!), after a little time out.

I think I need to be kinder to myself, life changing event, only 3 months in, I think things are a good as they can be.

I do find it a little difficult to get the balance of projecting my feelings on the boys / making sure they are comfortable sharing their emotions but I will get there, no doubt with a few mistakes along the way.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> We are down to minimum possible comms that co-parents of 2 small boys can possibly be and I do feel the benefit of that. I don't want her back, I know I am better off without her, I just fall back into the old life dreams but I will make a list of new dreams (15 in 4 months, Chuck?!? OK, will try!), after a little time out.
> 
> I think I need to be kinder to myself, life changing event, only 3 months in, I think things are a good as they can be.
> 
> I do find it a little difficult to get the balance of projecting my feelings on the boys / making sure they are comfortable sharing their emotions but I will get there, no doubt with a few mistakes along the way.


Again.... 5 easily attainable. Gets your confidence back.

5 semi-attainable. These required dedication. If you commit, they will be reached. Added confidence.

5 long range. Say.... Melrose will spend a weekend with my children and focus on nothing but

them and ME. The long range are a stretch the 1st time around. The 2nd time around, and you

make 15 more goals.... the 5 long range then become easily attainable. Make sense?

Example.... after my botched surgery, I had just started walking again with assistance and braces.

I wanted to win a 5k race. WTF? You are BSC Chuck! Those were mom's words exactly.

Two years later, I won that race. After winning, I lit a cigarette. Yeah, I was still angry.

I convinced myself if I could not win, I should just quit, roll over, and die. Was that true? No.

But I bought into it, thanks to Frank. By that time, Frank had died but his teachings lived on.

Channel your emotions.... use negatives to make positives. When no one believes in you,

the triumph is that much sweeter.


----------



## jlg07

Melrose8888 said:


> OK, so I know you guys are right. I really feel for her and I know I'd want to know if it were reserved.
> 
> But yes, I am being selfish for the first time in ages, because I've worked so damn hard to get what I need from this sh1tstorm. Telling would risk it all, given how unstable the STBXW is acting at the moment.
> 
> Is it fair enough to wait until the consent order for boys and finances is sealed, then tell? 6 weeks, probably.


Why don't you contact her anonymously giving info that can't be tied back to you? Seems to be the humane thing to do....


----------



## Melrose8888

jlg07 said:


> Why don't you contact her anonymously giving info that can't be tied back to you? Seems to be the humane thing to do....


Hi - I actually contacted her 2 weeks ago, spent 2 hours on the phone learning she knew about them / POSOM obsession with my STBXW long before I did and had lunch on Sunday with her, to get all the facts. Given what I learnt my STBXW and POSOM need all the luck in the world for it to work (that said, they are probably well suited...).


----------



## jlg07

Sorry -- I usually wait until the end of reading before I post!! I DID see that you contacted her.

I just want to say, you have come a VERY long way in such a short time. I realize that you are still hurting, but the entire tone of your posts has changed from your first post to now. You are MUCH more positive, and while not 100% out of the woods, you certainly seem to be back on track to enjoying your life. 

Shame the divorce is taking so long.... I wish the best to you.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi - I actually contacted her 2 weeks ago, spent 2 hours on the phone learning she knew about them / POSOM obsession with my STBXW long before I did and had lunch on Sunday with her, to get all the facts. Given what I learnt my STBXW and POSOM need all the luck in the world for it to work (that said, *they are probably well suited*...).


Schit begot schit


----------



## Melrose8888

I knew this week was going too smoothly...what can I do about this? This is strictly against what I asked for during mediation.

_Hi,

Just to let you know, this Sunday I am taking the boys on the steam miniature railway. They’ve been excited about it for weeks, but it doesn’t open until this weekend. Hopefully they won’t love it so much they demand to go every time they come to stay!

I would like to invite POSOM to join us on the train, to introduce the boys to him. As it would be away from the house, for a limited period of time and while doing a specific activity I thought it could be a good introduction for them and more acceptable for you. 

My thoughts are that meeting where something else (i.e. the train journey) is the focus makes it easier all round, and helps put a face to the name for the boys.

Please let me know if you’re OK with this.

Thanks,

POS STBXW

_


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> I knew this week was going too smoothly...what can I do about this? This is strictly against what I asked for during mediation.
> 
> _Hi,
> 
> Just to let you know, this Sunday I am taking the boys on the steam miniature railway. They’ve been excited about it for weeks, but it doesn’t open until this weekend. Hopefully they won’t love it so much they demand to go every time they come to stay!
> 
> I would like to invite POSOM to join us on the train, to introduce the boys to him. As it would be away from the house, for a limited period of time and while doing a specific activity I thought it could be a good introduction for them and more acceptable for you.
> 
> My thoughts are that meeting where something else (i.e. the train journey) is the focus makes it easier all round, and helps put a face to the name for the boys.
> 
> Please let me know if you’re OK with this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> POS STBXW
> 
> _


"I am not OK with this.

Save the introductions for when you are no longer a married woman committing adultery, else I may need to clarify things a bit for the boys.

And how am I only now hearing about this when the boys have been excited about it 'for weeks'?

This is no way to co-parent and is unacceptable."

Then take them yourself.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> I knew this week was going too smoothly...what can I do about this? This is strictly against what I asked for during mediation.
> 
> _Hi,
> 
> Just to let you know, this Sunday I am taking the boys on the steam miniature railway. They’ve been excited about it for weeks, but it doesn’t open until this weekend. Hopefully they won’t love it so much they demand to go every time they come to stay!
> 
> I would like to invite POSOM to join us on the train, to introduce the boys to him. As it would be away from the house, for a limited period of time and while doing a specific activity I thought it could be a good introduction for them and more acceptable for you.
> 
> My thoughts are that meeting where something else (i.e. the train journey) is the focus makes it easier all round, and helps put a face to the name for the boys.
> 
> Please let me know if you’re OK with this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> POS STBXW
> 
> _


Do you have an agreement worked out and signed? I went back a long way but didn't find it. I did get reminded though that there's a chance she might want to move your kids away from you to be with him, a lot of us told you to get your lawyer on that immediately but I didn't see an update. This could be step one of her moving your kids away from you. Have you taken any action on this front?


----------



## Melrose8888

There was an agreement in the mediation but this wasn't (it was never allowed / expected) to be part of the legal consent order (that is still awaiting stamping due to awaiting court dates / pronouncements. So, it was a verbal agreement of me to 1) not tell her work 2) communicate about the boys 3) tell he how I found out about the affair and in return, I asked for 1) That he is not introduced before the divorce date.

My solicitor is aware of the situation and is awaiting pronouncement (31st March) before challenging her response of 'No, she does not intend to co-habit in the next 6 months'.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> There was an agreement in the mediation but this wasn't (it was never allowed / expected) to be part of the legal consent order (that is still awaiting stamping due to awaiting court dates / pronouncements. So, it was a verbal agreement of me to 1) not tell her work 2) communicate about the boys 3) tell he how I found out about the affair and in return, I asked for 1) That he is not introduced before the divorce date.
> 
> My solicitor is aware of the situation and is awaiting pronouncement (31st March) before challenging her response of 'No, she does not intend to co-habit in the next 6 months'.


That's a very nice agreement. Remind her that you agreed not to inform her employer in exchange for her not introducing the kids to the pos. Ask her to confirm she no longer cares about that agreement. If she doesn't back down from introducing pos to the kids expose to hr.

You missed part of my point in the above post, though. Has your solicitor taken any legal action to prevent her moving the kids away from you?


----------



## Melrose8888

Nucking Futs said:


> That's a very nice agreement. Remind her that you agreed not to inform her employer in exchange for her not introducing the kids to the pos. Ask her to confirm she no longer cares about that agreement. If she doesn't back down from introducing pos to the kids expose to hr.
> 
> You missed part of my point in the above post, though. Has your solicitor taken any legal action to prevent her moving the kids away from you?


Indeed I will.

I understood your point but if Nisi is pronounced, that means she legally agreed not to co-habit, that then allows us to push back, legally, on any attempt to move. I don't expect her to move at this stage but it is very likely after 6 months.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> Indeed I will.
> 
> I understood your point but if Nisi is pronounced, that means she legally agreed not to co-habit, that then allows us to push back, legally, on any attempt to move. I don't expect her to move at this stage but it is very likely after 6 months.


I'm not conversant on brit law (other than the absolute ****ing divorce is for men) but in the US, it is possible to move with out co-habiting. It is also possible to get an order from the court preventing the children from being moved. That latter is what I and the other posters were trying to get you to do.


----------



## farsidejunky

Nucking Futs said:


> That's a very nice agreement. Remind her that you agreed not to inform her employer in exchange for her not introducing the kids to the pos. Ask her to confirm she no longer cares about that agreement. If she doesn't back down from introducing pos to the kids expose to hr.
> 
> You missed part of my point in the above post, though. Has your solicitor taken any legal action to prevent her moving the kids away from you?


This. Well played, NF.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose... honestly I don't think she plans on doing the meeting POSOM. BUT.... assume she will.

When it comes to BSC behavior, bet the farm she will do it. Some things... she will not follow

through with because she wants to jerk your chains. If an agreement has already been presented

and agreed upon, hopefully that will block any outlandish move. I have no clue on UK law but

there are instances in the US, during a D, if either parent moves the child(ren) either a) out of state,

b) out of county, or even c) out of school district, the other parent must sign in agreement

or it will deemed kidnapping and the said parent will be jailed.


----------



## Affaircare

Nucking Futs said:


> That's a very nice agreement. Remind her that you agreed not to inform her employer in exchange for her not introducing the kids to the pos. Ask her to confirm she no longer cares about that agreement. If she doesn't back down from introducing pos to the kids expose to hr.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: 

*QFT (Quoted for Truth)!!!*

I would also add that if she lies (about a 99.99% chance of that) and tells you she won't and then does it anyway, expose to HR.


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, i responded by saying no, it's not ok, reminded her of our agreement, told her this is about what is best for my boys, not us. Also mentioned i had no plans to introduce anyone (hee hee!) and that what i know about posom from OMW, he isn't suitable to meet then until after she is a divorced woman. Mentioned a small walk is more appropriate than a day out, anyway.

She replied just saying 'fine, i wanted to revisit, i understand where you are (her stock answer for everything) and she will stick to our agreement'. Hmmm...

Sub plot, because i texted the OMW about this, she offered up him to see his kids on Sunday, which he jumped at, so in the end he couldn't have come to see mine anyway! Good unified team work!

Will see stbxw at my son's karate grading in a few hours, just going to blank her. She got me so angry yesterday but i didn't / won't show it.

Just another bump in the road to freedom, i guess.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, i responded by saying no, it's not ok, reminded her of our agreement, told her this is about what is best for my boys, not us. Also mentioned i had no plans to introduce anyone (hee hee!) and that what i know about posom from OMW, he isn't suitable to meet then until after she is a divorced woman. Mentioned a small walk is more appropriate than a day out, anyway.
> 
> She replied just saying 'fine, i wanted to revisit, i understand where you are (her stock answer for everything) and she will stick to our agreement'. Hmmm...
> 
> Sub plot, because i texted the OMW about this, she offered up him to see his kids on Sunday, which he jumped at, so in the end he couldn't have come to see mine anyway! Good unified team work!
> 
> Will see stbxw at my son's karate grading in a few hours, just going to blank her. She got me so angry yesterday but i didn't / won't show it.
> 
> Just another bump in the road to freedom, i guess.


Nice job. It seems she was just testing to see if she had any control left over you.

Poor muffin. Foiled again. Hard 180!!!!!! Do not engage her. Give out the icy cold shoulder.


----------



## MJJEAN

Melrose8888 said:


> Sub plot, because i texted the OMW about this, she offered up him to see his kids on Sunday, which he jumped at, so in the end he couldn't have come to see mine anyway!


Or he'll decide to take his kids to the opening of the steam railway, too. 

I get you don't like it, but you're delaying the inevitable. The kids already know about him as evidenced by her saying they'd have a face to match to the name.


----------



## Evinrude58

Realize that all that court stuff doesn't mean too much because when it comes to getting that possum around your kids, she's going to do it anyway. What are you going to do about it--- take her back to court? She knows you can't afford to do all that. The court wouldn't give her much of a consequence if you did take her to court for breaking the agreement.

I hope you can get everything in writing soon. Your sleezy wife is going to screw you over every way imaginable when she figures out you no longer care about her and she's lost her power to hurt you based on your feelings for her. Once she realizes that, she will then try to hurt you with your feelings for your kids. Expect this to happen. Cheating wives are capable of anything.


----------



## Marc878

MJJEAN said:


> Or he'll decide to take his kids to the opening of the steam railway, too.
> 
> I get you don't like it, but you're delaying the inevitable. The kids already know about him as evidenced by her saying they'd have a face to match to the name.


Maybe but at least he didn't act like a damn doormat. It sets the stage for complete detachment which is his best option. There's no point in having any engagement or involement with her in the future.

A friend of mine does a hard 180. He's like iron. Never engages his stbxw in any way. On pickups/drop offs he never says a word. 5 minute exercise. He said after 9 months it was the best thing he could've done although she still texts and wants to be friends. He never responds unless it's kids only.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, i responded by saying no, it's not ok, reminded her of our agreement, told her this is about what is best for my boys, not us. Also mentioned i had no plans to introduce anyone (hee hee!) and that what i know about posom from OMW, he isn't suitable to meet then until after she is a divorced woman. Mentioned a small walk is more appropriate than a day out, anyway.
> 
> She replied just saying 'fine, i wanted to revisit, i understand where you are (her stock answer for everything) and she will stick to our agreement'. Hmmm...
> 
> Sub plot, because i texted the OMW about this, she offered up him to see his kids on Sunday, which he jumped at, so in the end he couldn't have come to see mine anyway! Good unified team work!
> 
> Will see stbxw at my son's karate grading in a few hours, just going to blank her. She got me so angry yesterday but i didn't / won't show it.
> 
> Just another bump in the road to freedom, i guess.


Utmost proud of you! :smthumbup:

I promise it will get easier each time you stand your ground. You may be Luke facing Vader in the 

early stages but you will reach Episode VI. The crazy part of this ordeal is....

anything WW says that is BSC, she will do. Anything she claims to do, which is logical and normal,

she will refuse. Counter-intuitive yes but examine who you are dealing with.

It's freaking sad life is so short and most people dealing with a WS have to exert so much energy 

dealing with their pathetic behavior for a long time frame.


----------



## Chaparral

Melrose8888 said:


> Bit of an odd week, I’ve tried to step back from all the drama and view this situation at a distance.
> 
> On Sunday, the OBS, quite understandably given the POSOM was blackmailing her by saying she had to do what he said to ensure he plays financial ball, had a bit of a wobble. She actually threw a glass at him, locked him in the annex at their house (so he had to climb out of the window!) and then wrote a text to his boss and threatened to send it to their work! Fortunately, she told me this and I was able to reminder that it is in our interests that they both earn, so she backed down and things seem calm now.
> 
> Given all that, I had to speak to the STBXW for the first time in 3 weeks or so, as she was about to freak out. I was calm, told her I am moving on and all I want is to ensure POSOM is going to be a decent man around my children and for us to achieve the agreed financial clean break and divorce ASAP (estimated date is end of May). She took it all in but still so cold and heartless, which strangely, was quite comforting to me – I know I am free of that now!
> 
> She did, once again, offer for me to meet POSOM – what are people’s thoughts on that? Personally I have no desire but on one hand, I’d quite enjoy grilling him but on the other, I think it is playing to their beat that everything will be OK / they are in control?
> 
> Interestingly, OBS tells me that the POSOM came back from a work trip from USA (where he use to take her along too) in a very reminiscing mood and gave the line ‘I know I ****ed up’ and was looking for hugs (as, apparently, he was all over Christmas & New Year). She also tells me that there is a history of mental illness in his family and his Mum thinks he is ill, which is why he is doing this. Given all the stories form his past and how he is acting now, both myself and the OBS suspect that he is a narcissist. Good luck with that, STBXW!
> 
> Last few days, I’ve noticed me grieving (not depressively, nor tearful, just mentally) the loss of life map, some more – so the one family unit, working as a team, keeping finances in check, all for the best possible future for my boys. All of that is in smoke, and I can accept that but it still disappoints me, especially as my hand has been forced on the issue of only seeing my boys (at best) half of the time. I am also reading up on my need for Validation in this marriage, really good to be able to step back and see the unhealthy nature of this - something I hope I can change.
> 
> I also realise I’m not ready to date, I’m resisting setting up a second date with an amazing girl because of this. It’s a shame but I don’t want to mess her around.
> 
> Baby steps...


Just catching up but I hope this wistfulness has passed and you are dating. That's how to heal. 

Read this as fast as you can.

https://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-...4&sr=8-1&keywords=married+man+sex+life+primer

And work out at the gym weight lifting. This IS more simple than you think.


----------



## Chaparral

play these videos on a good monitor/tv and sound system for a pick me up


----------



## Melrose8888

Niiiice, Chaparral. I like James Corden but i am surprised the land of the free 'get him'.

Bulletproof indeed.

Feeling good today, bouncebackability, i call it.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Niiiice, Chaparral. I like James Corden but i am surprised the land of the free 'get him'.
> 
> Bulletproof indeed.
> 
> Feeling good today, bouncebackability, i call it.


Fill the house with music and colour. 
It is also fine that your plans fall on their arse. That is normal at this stage too. Just keep making them!


----------



## Melrose8888

So, sat opposite side of the hall at my son's karate grading. Boys ran back and forth to me. Ex looked haggard and very, very stressed. I was cheerful and supportive of my amazing son.

At end she tried to engage me in small talk, then remarking how she liked my new shoes. I 'uh huh' back to her, hugged son's and left.

Drove to a mates with volume on max, smiling and singing at top of my voice. Had a low Sunday evening, when on my own, just disappointment on how life turned out so far and for my boys but managed to regain positivity about the future.

However, today i signed up for some CBT sessions. I want to be in tip top condition for my son's (and any potential future gf) and see no harm in utilising what I can right now.

OMW texted tonight, here is what she forwarded to me (to her from the POSOM after he spent rare day with his kids). He is also trying to get his wife to tell his kids that they must meet my STBXW! They don't want to. So, ladies and gentlemen, an insight into the world of the WS....

(For clarity, this is a text from POSOM to his wife)

Hi

I know it’s all too late, but I wanted to say I’m sorry. Spending the day here has given me just a tiny insight into the nightmare that you’ve had to deal with compounded by my selfish and unforgivable behaviour.

I’m so sorry on so many fronts. I can’t quite believe what I’ve done to the children (or you) and I hope that they may be able to forgive me in time.

I can’t really begin to imagine how difficult it’s been and I understand totally why you have reacted to me as you have.

It’s all too little too late, I know, but I truly am sorry.

I hope you’re enjoying your time away.

Bye and see you tomorrow.


----------



## GusPolinski

No response.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> Bit of an odd week, I’ve tried to step back from all the drama and view this situation at a distance.
> 
> On Sunday, the OBS, quite understandably given the POSOM was blackmailing her by saying she had to do what he said to ensure he plays financial ball, had a bit of a wobble. She actually threw a glass at him, locked him in the annex at their house (so he had to climb out of the window!) and then wrote a text to his boss and threatened to send it to their work! Fortunately, she told me this and I was able to reminder that it is in our interests that they both earn, so she backed down and things seem calm now.
> 
> Given all that, I had to speak to the STBXW for the first time in 3 weeks or so, as she was about to freak out. I was calm, told her I am moving on and all I want is to ensure POSOM is going to be a decent man around my children and for us to achieve the agreed financial clean break and divorce ASAP (estimated date is end of May). She took it all in but still so cold and heartless, which strangely, was quite comforting to me – I know I am free of that now!
> 
> She did, once again, offer for me to meet POSOM – what are people’s thoughts on that? Personally I have no desire but on one hand, I’d quite enjoy grilling him but on the other, I think it is playing to their beat that everything will be OK / they are in control?
> 
> Interestingly, OBS tells me that the POSOM came back from a work trip from USA (where he use to take her along too) in a very reminiscing mood and gave the line ‘I know I ****ed up’ and was looking for hugs (as, apparently, he was all over Christmas & New Year). She also tells me that there is a history of mental illness in his family and his Mum thinks he is ill, which is why he is doing this. Given all the stories form his past and how he is acting now, both myself and the OBS suspect that he is a narcissist. Good luck with that, STBXW!
> 
> Last few days, I’ve noticed me grieving (not depressively, nor tearful, just mentally) the loss of life map, some more – so the one family unit, working as a team, keeping finances in check, all for the best possible future for my boys. All of that is in smoke, and I can accept that but it still disappoints me, especially as my hand has been forced on the issue of only seeing my boys (at best) half of the time. I am also reading up on my need for Validation in this marriage, really good to be able to step back and see the unhealthy nature of this - something I hope I can change.
> 
> I also realise I’m not ready to date, I’m resisting setting up a second date with an amazing girl because of this. It’s a shame but I don’t want to mess her around.
> 
> Baby steps...


If and when you decide to meet OM, do it on _your_ timeline and not his or hers.

Don't give them any opportunity to prepare for it. Do it unannounced.

And make sure you spend the 3 months before that working out your arms, forearms, and wrists DAILY.

Buy a grip strengthener. Hell, buy two of them.

You'll need the second once you wear out the springs on the first.


----------



## bandit.45

Don't answer her text or message or whatever it was. Meet it with silence.


----------



## farsidejunky

Radio silence.

Congratulations, brother. You received what very many do not. Cherish it, let it be the last push you need to truly, fully detach from her, and really focus on living well.

As Chuck likes to say, her next move will be to show up at your door with a trench coat on and nothing underneath.


----------



## Melrose8888

Apols for lack of clarity in my post, the text is from POSOM to his wife...


----------



## Nucking Futs

That text was from posom to omw, not from stbx to Melrose.


----------



## bandit.45

Oh.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> So, sat opposite
> side of the hall at my son's karate grading. Boys ran back and forth to me. Ex looked haggard and very, very stressed. I was cheerful and supportive of my amazing son.
> 
> At end she tried to engage me in small talk, then remarking how she liked my new shoes. I 'uh huh' back to her, hugged son's and left.
> 
> Hard 180, in reality she's not even worth a "uh huh". Nice job, you can do this.
> 
> Drove to a mates with volume on max, smiling and singing at top of my voice. Had a low Sunday evening, when on my own, just disappointment on how life turned out so far and for my boys but managed to regain positivity about the future.
> 
> However, today i signed up for some CBT sessions. I want to be in tip top condition for my son's (and any potential future gf) and see no harm in utilising what I can right now.
> 
> Yes, this will do you a lot of good and build your confidence back!!!!
> 
> OMW texted tonight, here is what she forwarded to me (to her from the POSOM after he spent rare day with his kids). *He is also trying to get his wife to tell his kids that they must meet my STBXW!* They don't want to. So, ladies and gentlemen, an insight into the world of the WS....
> 
> I'd inform her what you did when your WW asked this.
> 
> (For clarity, this is a text from POSOM to his wife)
> 
> Hi
> 
> I know it’s all too late, but I wanted to say I’m sorry. Spending the day here has given me just a tiny insight into the nightmare that you’ve had to deal with compounded by my selfish and unforgivable behaviour.
> 
> I’m so sorry on so many fronts. I can’t quite believe what I’ve done to the children (or you) and I hope that they may be able to forgive me in time.
> 
> I can’t really begin to imagine how difficult it’s been and I understand totally why you have reacted to me as you have.
> 
> It’s all too little too late, I know, but I truly am sorry.
> 
> I hope you’re enjoying your time away.
> 
> Bye and see you tomorrow.


Cheater script nothing more. He's hoping to be friends. Tell her this "friends add loyal, trustworthy and honest" he's not your friend. Hard 180

Strategize together.


----------



## curious234

Can the remorse/regret be all about herself. What she imagined when she was playing behind your back with POSOM cheering/manipulating all the way is not materializing?
Ooops thought it is from your WW. looks like she is also having second thoughts for her to send it to you.
The email may cast doubt on her mind on the long term health of her plans. Hope his children keep rejecting him adding to his frustation


----------



## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> Oh.


Yeah, umm, missed that one...

Quietly slinking away...lol


----------



## Chuck71

Well..... your POSWW wanted the kids to meet POSOM.

OMW's POSWH wanted the kids to meet POSOW.

Neither went over well, whoodathunkit! Good bet those two imbeciles spent weeks planning that.

For those two... it WAS fun and exciting... now, it's REAL. Where can they get their "high"

from now? Oh... let's meet each other's kids! Melrose and OMW rebuffed that buzz.

They will chase anything for that next high. "Often" this is where their "love affair" ends abruptly. 

Who will the WW run to? *raises hand in the back* WW would attempt to get you back 

via hysterical bonding, or as I call it... vagina bombing. Hoping you will rugsweep everything and

act like the last six months never happened. Melrose... don't go down that road.

You might have wanted to back around the holidays but... you're far past that now aren't you?


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Well..... your POSWW wanted the kids to meet POSOM.
> 
> OMW's POSWH wanted the kids to meet POSOW.
> 
> Neither went over well, whoodathunkit! Good bet those two imbeciles spent weeks planning that.
> 
> For those two... it WAS fun and exciting... now, it's REAL. Where can they get their "high"
> 
> from now? Oh... let's meet each other's kids! Melrose and OMW rebuffed that buzz.
> 
> They will chase anything for that next high. "Often" this is where their "love affair" ends abruptly.
> 
> Who will the WW run to? *raises hand in the back* WW would attempt to get you back
> 
> via hysterical bonding, or as I call it... vagina bombing. Hoping you will rugsweep everything and
> 
> act like the last six months never happened. Melrose... don't go down that road.
> 
> You might have wanted to back around the holidays but... you're far past that now aren't you?


Yep, reality has been biting them for weeks now. I know my STBXW wants him involved because 1) she wants him to integrate into her life for security, because she is afraid that he might cheat (no ****!) / go back to his wife (he wishes!) / run away (very possible when he gets his new job) and 2) she cannot cope with my boys on her own, while trying to impress people at her work by doing 60 hours weeks, just in case anyone finds out about her affair with her boss and questions whether she 'deserved' that massive promotion....fun to watch.

Vag bombing!! I love it (perhaps literally....!!).

But no, I will not be entertaining her advances now, or in the future. Yes, I could do with a woman's touch right now but I am far too busy building myself back up, beyond where I was, to be interested in quick 'fixes'. Tempting to play games with her when it comes but I above that now and, honestly, as much fun as it is to watch all this, I do hope she disappears without a trace and can co-parent with the smallest possible amount of comms. (that is unlikely, as every child based text / email, has some kind of personal / work related update within it - errr, I don't care!!).


----------



## Chuck71

Communicating about the kids and throwing in their own agenda. Typical cheater script.

The last two attempts to get a BH back is through the kids, then... lastly.... via vagina.

Does every WW, no BUT an overwhelming majority do. Try buying a phone and teaching the oldest how

to use it, to communicate with you. If he is too young now, he will not be very soon. Also add to D papers,

they are to each have one and it is YOUR property to communicate with them. So when the WW gets 

pizzed off at POSOM, another guy, work, etc. she can't just walk in and take it away from them.

Coordinate with their school teacher and ?head master? to receive updates. This will cut down on

needed communication with your WW. Cause God knows... when her fairy tale life implodes, and you've

moved on and are dating a healthy female, she will blow up your phone over ANYTHING.

Melrose is flying high and WW is lying in the gutter. -It wasn't supposed to be like this- as she cries

crocodile tears into her gallon of chocolate ice cream.


----------



## MattMatt

Many cheaters want their spouse to be friendly with their lover.

"See? My cheating couldn't have been so bad for my ex, because he/she is so friendly with my new soulmate!"


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Yep, reality has been biting them for weeks now. I know my STBXW wants him involved because 1) she wants him to integrate into her life for security, because she is afraid that he might cheat (no ****!) / go back to his wife (he wishes!) / run away (very possible when he gets his new job) and 2) she cannot cope with my boys on her own, while trying to impress people at her work by doing 60 hours weeks, just in case anyone finds out about her affair with her boss and questions whether she 'deserved' that massive promotion....fun to watch.
> 
> Vag bombing!! I love it (perhaps literally....!!).
> 
> But no, I will not be entertaining her advances now, or in the future. Yes, I could do with a woman's touch right now but I am far too busy building myself back up, beyond where I was, to be interested in quick 'fixes'. Tempting to play games with her when it comes but I above that now and, honestly, as much fun as it is to watch all this, *I do hope she disappears without a trace and can co-parent with the smallest possible amount of comms. (that is unlikely, as every child based text / email, has some kind of personal / work related update within it - errr, I don't care!!).*


just ignore her and only respond on kids/business only. She'll probably stop after you ignore her for awhile. If it doesn't Once the D is final you could send her a message that she's no longer a part of your life and you could care less about her personal info, etc.


----------



## Melrose8888

MattMatt said:


> Many cheaters want their spouse to be friendly with their lover.
> 
> "See? My cheating couldn't have been so bad for my ex, because he/she is so friendly with my new soulmate!"


There is a large part of validation to this too. Deep down she still trusts my judgement, so she wants me to OK the relationship from an emotional as well as logical POV.

Well, it ain't gonna happen. I have no interest in meeting him. I have learnt enough about him from the OBW and that is all I need to know. The STBXW knows that, after D, if I get the slightest inkling that he isn't throwing straight dice around my boys, I go to the police.


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> Many cheaters want their spouse to be friendly with their lover.
> 
> "See? My cheating couldn't have been so bad for my ex, because he/she is so friendly with my new soulmate!"


"Baby please at least acknowledge my screwed up actions... maybe I won't seem as BSC to others.

I will love you forever for it." Good bet she's used that line more than once....


----------



## Melrose8888

I've identified a strange trigger today. Despite the fact that the POSOM is her boss, so they see each other everyday, when i pick up my boys i know it 'frees' her to go and continue her affair without the chains of being a mother. That gets me angry. The fact she can just handover S7 and S4 to me, go off and have fun with her bald, old boss makes me mad.

As you know, I've stopped pain shopping by no longer FB snooping, so i don't (want to) know what they are doing but it still riles me.

I've also noticed me getting a little impatient with S4, as he tends to call me mummy by accident a lot and often asks when he is going back to stay with her. He is so young, so clearly know i need to give him plenty of understanding at this uncertain time but i do sometimes project that disappointment on to him by getting snappy


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> I've identified a strange trigger today. Despite the fact that the POSOM is her boss, so they see each other everyday, when i pick up my boys i know it 'frees' her to go and continue her affair without the chains of being a mother. That gets me angry. The fact she can just handover S7 and S4 to me, go off and have fun with her bald, old boss makes me mad.
> 
> As you know, I've stopped pain shopping by no longer FB snooping, so i don't (want to) know what they are doing but it still riles me.
> 
> I've also noticed me getting a little impatient with S4, as he tends to call me mummy by accident a lot and often asks when he is going back to stay with her. He is so young, so clearly know i need to give him plenty of understanding at this uncertain time but i do sometimes project that disappointment on to him by getting snappy


Ok.... what if she had the boys 90 / 10? If she can't bring POSOM around the kids, would 

you feel better? I seriously doubt you would. All she would do is get a sitter.

If having your boys more so she can go shack up with POSOM bothers you... you are missing the point.

You have your boys. You are not dating anyone seriously or semi-seriously. But she's got HIM.

That is NONE of your concern. Picture heaven as London and Belfast as he!!.

Even the low end London is heaven. Even the palace in Belfast is he!!. She went from London

to Belfast. Pretty damn idiotic if you ask me. Melrose.... you worry about YOU and

WGAFF what she does. By the way... you are still pain shopping. But it's normal and it 

will pass. I was scared to death to run into my STBXW at the store back in early 2013. She left town, returned

last year. I did run into her. I saw her. I looked right through her. Felt nothing.

You'll get there...


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Ok.... what if she had the boys 90 / 10? If she can't bring POSOM around the kids, would
> 
> you feel better? I seriously doubt you would. All she would do is get a sitter.
> 
> If having your boys more so she can go shack up with POSOM bothers you... you are missing the point.
> 
> You have your boys. You are not dating anyone seriously or semi-seriously. But she's got HIM.
> 
> That is NONE of your concern. Picture heaven as London and Belfast as he!!.
> 
> Even the low end London is heaven. Even the palace in Belfast is he!!. She went from London
> 
> to Belfast. Pretty damn idiotic if you ask me. Melrose.... you worry about YOU and
> 
> WGAFF what she does. By the way... you are still pain shopping. But it's normal and it
> 
> will pass. I was scared to death to run into my STBXW at the store back in early 2013. She left town, returned
> 
> last year. I did run into her. I saw her. I looked right through her. Felt nothing.
> 
> You'll get there...


I like Belfast...

Good call though, Chuck. It has fleetingly crossed my mind, kids time with me vs her cake eating. Thing is, I can get cake whenever i want, each day my boys noticeable grow, evolve and I'm not going to to miss out on anything less than 50% of that. Yes, it's 50% less than my life map but this is where we are.

I know i can only control the way i react to knowing what she is doing. Feeling nothing​ is the aim. Pain is still, unfortunately, the game.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> I like Belfast...
> 
> Good call though, Chuck. It has fleetingly crossed my mind, kids time with me vs her cake eating. Thing is, I can get cake whenever i want, each day my boys noticeable grow, evolve and I'm not going to to miss out on anything less than 50% of that. Yes, it's 50% less than my life map but this is where we are.
> 
> I know i can only control the way i react to knowing what she is doing. Feeling nothing​ is the aim. Pain is still, unfortunately, the game.


I'm part Irish so I used Belfast. Maybe Dublin would have been better.

Anyway... on the surface it does sting WW being with POSOM and you have the kids.

Completely normal to think WTF about me!? If she focuses more on POSOM or WTFE is her

next "victim" she will ignore the boys. The boys will notice this. Children pick up on MUCH 

more than we give them credit for. When it is time for you to date, you will. When it is time you

want to seek out a LTR, you will. Small steps / 15 goals......

Honest question.... the parameters are probably different in UK than US but.....

do you feel your WW would be the type to seek out the most custody possible not because she 

wants to be with her children but to extract more money from your wallet?


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> I'm part Irish so I used Belfast. Maybe Dublin would have been better.
> 
> Anyway... on the surface it does sting WW being with POSOM and you have the kids.
> 
> Completely normal to think WTF about me!? If she focuses more on POSOM or WTFE is her
> 
> next "victim" she will ignore the boys. The boys will notice this. Children pick up on MUCH
> 
> more than we give them credit for. When it is time for you to date, you will. When it is time you
> 
> want to seek out a LTR, you will. Small steps / 15 goals......
> 
> Honest question.... the parameters are probably different in UK than US but.....
> 
> do you feel your WW would be the type to seek out the most custody possible not because she
> 
> wants to be with her children but to extract more money from your wallet?


Ha, perhaps!

So i slowly read each statement and answered.
It stings. The boys don't see the impact, yet, cause he isn't around, yet. I will revisit dating again, one will turn into LTR eventually. I have already met many of my goals (being accepted for a weeks charity work in June being a major one).

No hesitation, no, 99% sure she wouldn't do it for the money. Why? Cause her dad abandoned her when she was 8 and she wants her boys to see 50% of their father (and so she can cake eat). Mind you, D-day minus 7, i was 99% sure she wasn't the type of women to have an affair, so what do i know....


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Ha, perhaps!
> 
> So i slowly read each statement and answered.
> It stings. The boys don't see the impact, yet, cause he isn't around, yet. I will revisit dating again, one will turn into LTR eventually. I have already met many of my goals (being accepted for a weeks charity work in June being a major one).
> 
> No hesitation, no, 99% sure she wouldn't do it for the money. Why? Cause her dad abandoned her when she was 8 and she wants her boys to see 50% of their father (and so she can cake eat). Mind you, D-day minus 7, i was 99% sure she wasn't the type of women to have an affair, so what do i know....


A young male or female who grow up without a father figure are much more prone to dysfunction. 

A young male who has a father who drinks excessively and mistreats females is more prone to

follow the same pattern. A young female who has a father who drinks excessively and mistreats females

is more prone to.... pick a guy like her father or... follow the same pattern.

Melrose...... see the pattern?


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> I've identified a strange trigger today. Despite the fact that the POSOM is her boss, so they see each other everyday, when i pick up my boys i know it 'frees' her to go and continue her affair without the chains of being a mother. That gets me angry. The fact she can just handover S7 and S4 to me, go off and have fun with her bald, old boss makes me mad.
> 
> As you know, I've stopped pain shopping by no longer FB snooping, so i don't (want to) know what they are doing but it still riles me.
> 
> I've also noticed me getting a little impatient with S4, as he tends to call me mummy by accident a lot and often asks when he is going back to stay with her. He is so young, so clearly know i need to give him plenty of understanding at this uncertain time but i do sometimes project that disappointment on to him by getting snappy


Mate don't get cut up by your last 2 sentences. My 2 yo does it but my 6 yo tells me she calls for daddy when she's with POS EX. PM me and I'll go in to detail about the assurance stuff I do with my girls.


----------



## Evinrude58

Melrise,
Mine doesn't want 50% custody because it cuts into her travel/play time if out three kids are with her.
I suspect you are right. Yours doesn't want them full time, either.

Your kids will know who their father is. This POS your ex is with will show them his true colors eventually. My ex's h uses his money and buddy attitude to dazzle mine. But they will realize one day that he can be their buddy because he has no interest in their character. He doesn't want to provide discipline or a character example for them. 
It'll be the same for you.


----------



## inging

The fact that you notice that she is happy to hand them over to be with the old balding boss is something your kids will notice too. 
It is incredibly entitled. She is putting herself first and the kids second. Your kids see and hear everything . Just keep being on time. 

She is digging that hole as fast as she can and there is nothing you can do about it. There is nothing you should do about it either because she fired you from the "stop_me_from_messing_up' job. You no longer are wanted or needed for that. 

It can feel very quiet and you may even feel like you have lost something. You have.. Constant filtering and moral and ethical checking for someone else. 

Dude. Your picker is broken. Do not go into an LTR until you understand that or you will just rinse and repeat.

Kid called you mum.. Awesome. Mum is more than a label. It is recognition that you are nurturing and safe. 


Week on Week off may be too much for little ones.

1 night ( midweek) in the "off week" they stay with other parent. It is a pain to co-ordinate but worked well for my youngest. As an added bonus my Ex hated it because she had less blocks of time to devote to the old man. ( literally) 

Week one
Sunday ,Monday, Wednesday,Thursday, Saturday afternoon drop off
Week two
Tuesday Saturday afternoon pickup


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> Melrise,
> Mine doesn't want 50% custody because it cuts into her travel/play time if out three kids are with her.
> I suspect you are right. Yours doesn't want them full time, either.
> 
> Your kids will know who their father is. This POS your ex is with will show them his true colors eventually. My ex's h uses his money and buddy attitude to dazzle mine. But they will realize one day that he can be their buddy because he has no interest in their character. He doesn't want to provide discipline or a character example for them.
> It'll be the same for you.


Think this is my concern / fear, posom is such a rat, a player, that he does and tells anyone what they want hear. That includes sucking up to my kids and doing everything that my ex wants him too, pick them up, put them to bed, take them to cinema, take them on holiday..Etc etc. That should be me. Only me.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> The fact that you notice that she is happy to hand them over to be with the old balding boss is something your kids will notice too.
> It is incredibly entitled. She is putting herself first and the kids second. Your kids see and hear everything . Just keep being on time.
> 
> She is digging that hole as fast as she can and there is nothing you can do about it. There is nothing you should do about it either because she fired you from the "stop_me_from_messing_up' job. You no longer are wanted or needed for that.
> 
> It can feel very quiet and you may even feel like you have lost something. You have.. Constant filtering and moral and ethical checking for someone else.
> 
> Dude. Your picker is broken. Do not go into an LTR until you understand that or you will just rinse and repeat.
> 
> Kid called you mum.. Awesome. Mum is more than a label. It is recognition that you are nurturing and safe.
> 
> 
> Week on Week off may be too much for little ones.
> 
> 1 night ( midweek) in the "off week" they stay with other parent. It is a pain to co-ordinate but worked well for my youngest. As an added bonus my Ex hated it because she had less blocks of time to devote to the old man. ( literally)
> 
> Week one
> Sunday ,Monday, Wednesday,Thursday, Saturday afternoon drop off
> Week two
> Tuesday Saturday afternoon pickup


Arranging mother's day plans she emailed saying 'the kids are my priority too'. I replied saying i hope future correspondence and actions reflect that. She also mentioned some tall stories my older son was telling. I got the cheap shot in by saying it's a shame he appears to have picked up her skills in lying. 

Dropped boys off for mother's day and thought I would be the better man and buy some flowers for the boys to give her. Didn't even acknowledge the gift and within 10 mins of me driving away, she was calling asking why youngest has spots (which he had when she dropped them off Friday?!).

Agreed, bad picker and am working each day on self awareness. CBT starts on Saturday.

Thanks for scheduling advice. We mostly do Fri to Fri, so I asked to see them for dinner each Monday a few weeks ago but overnight nice idea too.

Sigh, still some way to go for me.

Good news is, it's Decree Nisi pronouncement on Tuesday. Bring. It. On.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> Arranging mother's day plans she emailed saying 'the kids are my priority too'. I replied saying i hope future correspondence and actions reflect that. She also mentioned some tall stories my older son was telling. I got the cheap shot in by saying it's a shame he appears to have picked up her skills in lying.
> 
> Dropped boys off for mother's day and *thought I would be the better man and buy some flowers for the boys to give her.* Didn't even acknowledge the gift and within 10 mins of me driving away, she was calling asking why youngest has spots (which he had when she dropped them off Friday?!).
> 
> Agreed, bad picker and am working each day on self awareness. CBT starts on Saturday.
> 
> Thanks for scheduling advice. We mostly do Fri to Fri, so I asked to see them for dinner each Monday a few weeks ago but overnight nice idea too.
> 
> Sigh, still some way to go for me.
> 
> Good news is, it's Decree Nisi pronouncement on Tuesday. Bring. It. On.


Knock that weak **** off.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Think this is my concern / fear, posom is such a rat, a player, that he does and tells anyone what they want hear. That includes sucking up to my kids and doing everything that my ex wants him too, pick them up, put them to bed, take them to cinema, take them on holiday..Etc etc. That should be me. Only me.


Dude you're overthinking this. It's really simple. As long as she puts her vagina in his face,

he is more apt to do what she asks. When she stops or pulls back, he will too.

Just because you rope a bull don't mean you can tie him... TRUST ME!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Arranging mother's day plans she emailed saying 'the kids are my priority too'. I replied saying i hope future correspondence and actions reflect that. She also mentioned some tall stories my older son was telling. I got the cheap shot in by saying it's a shame he appears to have picked up her skills in lying.
> 
> Dropped boys off for mother's day and thought I would be the better man and buy some flowers for the boys to give her. Didn't even acknowledge the gift and within 10 mins of me driving away, she was calling asking why youngest has spots (which he had when she dropped them off Friday?!).
> 
> Agreed, bad picker and am working each day on self awareness. CBT starts on Saturday.
> 
> Thanks for scheduling advice. We mostly do Fri to Fri, so I asked to see them for dinner each Monday a few weeks ago but overnight nice idea too.
> 
> Sigh, still some way to go for me.
> 
> Good news is, it's Decree Nisi pronouncement on Tuesday. Bring. It. On.


I'm assuming you still consider her a decent mother, I have different thoughts but that's not

important. It will mean a lot for them to see her on Mother's Day. I'm sure you are okay with that.

Here's the deal.... on this board I have seen NUMEROUS times where the guy lets her have them on

Mother's Day as long as he has them on Father's Day. Guess what happens on Father's Day....

two guesses LOL. Yeah... Get it written somewhere you get them, contact the police way beforehand,

get the kids a day before, or days if you can. Do NOT let her lead you to believe she has the 

Gdamn decency to willingly give you the children on Father's Day, if she can withhold them.

I've been on these board four years and I see this EVERY year. Lock it down ASAP.


----------



## Chuck71

Nucking Futs said:


> Knock that weak **** off.


----------



## Melrose8888

Jeeze, did you guys wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?! 

Don't see flowers bought with son's pocket money as weak.

Vaginal thrusting is not a pretty picture but i understand, after all, i too, am a man! Million times more decent than posom but i get it. 

She's an average mum at the mo but it's still good to take the easy wins. They are back with me at 5pm.

Father's day in June, well, she is on holiday in France with posom the week before. Handover due on father's day. So I'm relaxed. 50% minimum with them over the course of a year is all i work for. That itself is **** but best i can do.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Jeeze, did you guys wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?!
> 
> Don't see flowers bought with son's pocket money as weak.
> 
> Vaginal thrusting is not a pretty picture but i understand, after all, i too, am a man! Million times more decent than posom but i get it.
> 
> She's an average mum at the mo but it's still good to take the easy wins. They are back with me at 5pm.
> 
> Father's day in June, well, she is on holiday in France with posom the week before. Handover due on father's day. So I'm relaxed. 50% minimum with them over the course of a year is all i work for. That itself is **** but best i can do.


Mother's Day here is not until.... May is it? Yeah the law sucks, you can whine about it or 

attempt to change it. When you "settle" it shows. When you give people like her an inch, she will

try to take a mile. Just from experience... but WTH do I know...


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Jeeze, did you guys wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?!
> 
> .


Is hot here and it is supposed to be autumn. We live 5k from the Sun though..So yes. Grumpy.

The scheduling is a pain. It goes like this..
You agree on something. She agrees to it. Then she changes it, is late, is early. Generally anything to stop you having plans. 

If her interests were for her children she would not have done any of the things she has done. 

Lets, for the sake of argument, say you are a horrible overbearing and dreadful person. Lets say she has put up with you for years and hated the sound of your breath. hated everything about your hideous deformed mind..

Is it now okay to find a married guy and stuff up another families life? No. Didn't think so.

This is not a separation it is a wilful destruction of two families by two selfish, self absorbed people who don't give a rats bottom about anyone but themselves. .


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Melrose8888 said:


> I've also noticed me getting a little impatient with S4, as he tends to call me mummy by accident a lot and often asks when he is going back to stay with her. He is so young, so clearly know i need to give him plenty of understanding at this uncertain time but i do sometimes project that disappointment on to him by getting snappy


Once he starts school, he'll be calling you by the teacher's name!

I find this sort of thing is usually after school ends, and similarly with the mummy/daddy mixup, it's usually after handover. Then thing settle down. It's not a sign that the child would rather be with the other parent or back at school. It's just a matter of adjusting to the transition.

I sometimes call one kid by the other kid's name (or the dog's!) when I'm distracted. My parents called me by my sibling's name all the time and vice versa.

When the trigger happens, just remind yourself it doesn't mean anything emotional.

As for dealing with the inquiries about when he goes back to mum's, treat them as learning opportunities for reading a calendar. Have one on the wall and lead him to it and point to how many days away the return to mum is, then remind him what cool activities he'll have with you before then. "Two sleeps here, then swimming lessons, then we visit Grandma, then one more sleep here and you're back to your mum."

He's still trying to get the hang of the new routine. That's why it's best to be very predictable with the handovers and timing for kids that age.

It's good that you notice your disappointment and trigger, so you can work to diminish the snippiness and impatience.

Separation and divorce and child exchanges are a nasty balancing act between supporting your children's recovery and working your own along.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> Jeeze, did you guys wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?!
> 
> *Don't see flowers bought with son's pocket money as weak.*
> 
> Vaginal thrusting is not a pretty picture but i understand, after all, i too, am a man! Million times more decent than posom but i get it.
> 
> She's an average mum at the mo but it's still good to take the easy wins. They are back with me at 5pm.
> 
> Father's day in June, well, she is on holiday in France with posom the week before. Handover due on father's day. So I'm relaxed. 50% minimum with them over the course of a year is all i work for. That itself is **** but best i can do.


One year from today come back and tell me you still feel this way.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> Lets, for the sake of argument, say you are a horrible overbearing and dreadful person. Lets say she has put up with you for years and hated the sound of your breath. hated everything about your hideous deformed mind..
> 
> Is it now okay to find a married guy and stuff up another families life? No. Didn't think so.
> 
> This is not a separation it is a wilful destruction of two families by two selfish, self absorbed people who don't give a rats bottom about anyone but themselves. .


So perfectly put.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Once he starts school, he'll be calling you by the teacher's name!
> 
> I find this sort of thing is usually after school ends, and similarly with the mummy/daddy mixup, it's usually after handover. Then thing settle down. It's not a sign that the child would rather be with the other parent or back at school. It's just a matter of adjusting to the transition.
> 
> I sometimes call one kid by the other kid's name (or the dog's!) when I'm distracted. My parents called me by my sibling's name all the time and vice versa.
> 
> When the trigger happens, just remind yourself it doesn't mean anything emotional.
> 
> As for dealing with the inquiries about when he goes back to mum's, treat them as learning opportunities for reading a calendar. Have one on the wall and lead him to it and point to how many days away the return to mum is, then remind him what cool activities he'll have with you before then. "Two sleeps here, then swimming lessons, then we visit Grandma, then one more sleep here and you're back to your mum."
> 
> He's still trying to get the hang of the new routine. That's why it's best to be very predictable with the handovers and timing for kids that age.
> 
> It's good that you notice your disappointment and trigger, so you can work to diminish the snippiness and impatience.
> 
> Separation and divorce and child exchanges are a nasty balancing act between supporting your children's recovery and working your own along.


Thanks hopeful, that is very useful context and you're correct, I'm just little anxious about doing the right thing. We do count the days but have a spare calendar so will let the boys use it, good idea!

It's that advice you get on a flight safety demo. Fit your own oxygen mask before that of your children. No contact is just about that but if course, if it's kids related stuff, i am happy to respond.


----------



## Melrose8888

This is probably going to split opinion but given she is, after all, the mother of my young kids and realistically needs to function at some level for the next 10 years, until they decide where they want to live, is there any benefit to sitting back and letting it all go to sh1t?

I mean, I know what the POSOM is really like, a guy who abuses his position to prey on women (5 known cases from his ex, likely many, many more). OK, the STBXW ****ed up too, she is a cheat, but she isn't anywhere near his level of serial cheating. She just fell for his grooming - she doesn't realise this, she sees him as a soul mate. Doesn't she deserve to know?

She will have a breakdown when he cheats on her and, as the mother of my boys, I fear for her sanity and the impact on the boys when they are with her. Even if she stays with him and doesn't discover his cheating, he will still be around my boys, bringing them up with a lack of morals and teaching them being a cheating rat pays.

OK, some will say, not my monkeys.....but it is, this is the development of my sons at risk here.


----------



## Chuck71

You act as if he will be around long term. Just my opinion but I seriously doubt he will.

If all it took from him was come on lines for her to cheat, she already was with major issues.

Her meltdown if she learns he cheats is causality. You reap what you sew. 

Melrose.... knock that damn KISA out of you. It's creeping back in for some reason. Look at it this way,

if she does have the meltdown, you get the kids more. Who knows, you may date a wonderful 

woman with two kids of her own. You are not responsible for her actions and bad choices.

She's an adult, ripped apart a family of four, for her own "seemingly" desires and lust.

They both live in "Belfast" and that's not your fault or problem. Every one should be accountable 

for their own actions.


----------



## Taxman

Let him cheat on her. Let her have to commit herself to a psych ward. You have but one duty, sweep in and ensure your kids are safe. As far as you are concerned, they can put your STBXW into a coma, and keep her there for all you should care. As long as your kids are fine, she can rot. Scenario: she catches him messing about on her, she realizes that she just flushed you down the loo. She approaches, but you already have a good rewarding relationship with someone new and you certainly would never entertain bringing her particular brand of cancer back into your now settled and happy home. 

She loses it and has to commit herself to a hospital. You get full custody. Number of cares given by you=0


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose...... when she does catch him cheating or.... if she cheats herself, after it's all over

with him...... guess whose door she will be knocking on. Wanting to "try again." Clockwork


----------



## honcho

Melrose8888 said:


> This is probably going to split opinion but given she is, after all, the mother of my young kids and realistically needs to function at some level for the next 10 years, until they decide where they want to live, is there any benefit to sitting back and letting it all go to sh1t?
> 
> I mean, I know what the POSOM is really like, a guy who abuses his position to prey on women (5 known cases from his ex, likely many, many more). OK, the STBXW ****ed up too, she is a cheat, but she isn't anywhere near his level of serial cheating. She just fell for his grooming - she doesn't realise this, she sees him as a soul mate. Doesn't she deserve to know?
> 
> She will have a breakdown when he cheats on her and, as the mother of my boys, I fear for her sanity and the impact on the boys when they are with her. Even if she stays with him and doesn't discover his cheating, he will still be around my boys, bringing them up with a lack of morals and teaching them being a cheating rat pays.
> 
> OK, some will say, not my monkeys.....but it is, this is the development of my sons at risk here.


You'll be lucky if he is still in the picture by the end of the divorce. These things so rarely last.

She already knows what she got in him, she has lied to herself and told herself that he will never do it to her or nobody understands him like she does and whatnot. She isn't the innocent victim of Mr evil. All you can do it get out of the way and let the fiasco play out. The greater distance from the mess you have the less likely your gonna get caught up in the whirlwind when it happens.

My crazy ex fell for the serial Mr perfect cheater. I play kisa and told her all about what kind of a man he was, printed out all the restraining orders he had against him, convictions for domestic violence etc etc. Told her exactly how he plays his game, I've known the clown for over 30 years and he never varies from his pattern. She just excused the behavior, blamed all the other women who were "out to get him" and such. 

The meltdown was epic and the stuff of legend now in my small community. You can't do anything but get out of the way, be a strong father for your kids and let the train wreck.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> This is probably going to split opinion but given she is, after all, the mother of my young kids and realistically needs to function at some level for the next 10 years, until they decide where they want to live, is there any benefit to sitting back and letting it all go to sh1t?
> 
> I mean, I know what the POSOM is really like, a guy who abuses his position to prey on women (5 known cases from his ex, likely many, many more). OK, the STBXW ****ed up too, she is a cheat, but she isn't anywhere near his level of serial cheating. She just fell for his grooming - she doesn't realise this, she sees him as a soul mate. Doesn't she deserve to know?
> 
> She will have a breakdown when he cheats on her and, as the mother of my boys, I fear for her sanity and the impact on the boys when they are with her. Even if she stays with him and doesn't discover his cheating, he will still be around my boys, bringing them up with a lack of morals and teaching them being a cheating rat pays.
> 
> OK, some will say, not my monkeys.....but it is, this is the development of my sons at risk here.


Chuck is right, you're polishing up your armor to try to save her from the consequences of her actions and that's not going to help her to grow as an individual. Let her reap the crop she has sown. 

First flowers for Mothers day now you want to save her from her lover. Maybe you could crawl up to her on your knees next and beg her to take you back.


----------



## Melrose8888

Lots of opinion, which is great.

So, agreed, he might **** off soon, even more reason to not have him appear around the boys to suddenly disappear again. Can't have that being seen as normal by my sons.

I am still playing the typical fixer role, I know but that is what comes with being a Dad. I've made it clear, I don't want her back, we are incompatible, I could never think about touching her again, let alone anything else. Won't rise to the flowers or KISA jibes - I'm a great Dad, that is all there is to it.

honcho - That sounds exactly like my situation, why is it so difficult for me to stand by and watch - it can only be my fear of the impact on the kids. She is pretty unstable right now...

I like the differing views on here but each situation has it's own merits and a broad brush cannot be used for every case of infidelity. In this case, I have 2 very young children I have to consider, by using all the information I have to hand and assessing what I can control that will be in their best interests.

What we could do is let one son go and stay with her and POSOM, whereas the other one can stay with me. Then we can see in 15-30-45 years time, who was right, hey?


----------



## Satya

I understand that you don't want your kids to suffer from her poor choices or behavior, but they already are, and you're already working hard to ensure they stay safe and mentally healthy despite that. 

Children have to endure stress and discomfort at some point, else they lack chances to build coping mechanisms and resilience early on. They can become needy cling-ons incapable of handling upheaval in adulthood if they can't learn to process it in childhood. 

So, you can try to egg crate their entire existence with your stbx, or you can make sure they have counseling, bonding activities, quality time with you doing "dad things." in other words, outlets to ensure they have a safe place with you and emotional balance.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> This is probably going to split opinion but given she is, after all, the mother of my young kids and realistically needs to function at some level for the next 10 years, until they decide where they want to live, is there any benefit to sitting back and letting it all go to sh1t?
> 
> I mean, I know what the POSOM is really like, a guy who abuses his position to prey on women (5 known cases from his ex, likely many, many more). OK, the STBXW ****ed up too, she is a cheat, but she isn't anywhere near his level of serial cheating. She just fell for his grooming - she doesn't realise this, she sees him as a soul mate. Doesn't she deserve to know?
> 
> She will have a breakdown when he cheats on her and, as the mother of my boys, I fear for her sanity and the impact on the boys when they are with her. Even if she stays with him and doesn't discover his cheating, he will still be around my boys, bringing them up with a lack of morals and teaching them being a cheating rat pays.
> 
> OK, some will say, not my monkeys.....but it is, this is the development of my sons at risk here.


As long as you try to be this type of women's savoir no matter if it's your wife or just the next one you will develop this codependent relationships and you will get used and burned. Worry about your sons, not this women who treated you like crap. Even now you are looking for ways to ingratiate yourself to her, flowers, thinking about how she will recover. Just stop she is not worth the effort. 
When the bully in the school yard punches you the best reaction is to punch back. Well she is the mother of your kids so you can't punch. But you don't try to be their friend. People who suck up to bullies get bulled. Don't be your ex wife's toady please. Your are still not seeing your wife for what she is. She exactly the same type of person he is. She is not some duped Innocent flower. She is a married woman with kids who had an extramarital affair with her married boss. In the process blowing up the lives of her kids. There is not gray area, stop trying to look for one. There is very little difference in the two of them, he just has a head start.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> I am still playing the typical fixer role, I know but that is what comes with being a Dad.


It comes with being codependent and passive aggressive. You want to fix things, fix this in yourself, you will never have a solid relationship until you do. People like you are acting attract the same kind of abusive people over and over. It's not the picker that's broken it's what you tell people when you behave this way. You tell them, I will accept your nonsense. That is what attracts these shady characters to you. You will put up with them.


----------



## Danny4133

I got the cheap shot in by saying it's a shame he appears to have picked up her skills in lying. 

Haha, you win the award matey for making me smile.
The target appeared and you smashed the bullseye good on you fella. Quick witted all the way. I'm banking this one in case I need


----------



## Thor

Chuck71 said:


> Melrose...... when she does catch him cheating or.... if she cheats herself, after it's all over
> 
> with him...... guess whose door she will be knocking on. Wanting to "try again." Clockwork


This one is in my acoustic setlist. I'm hoping some day my ex shows up at an open mic...

https://youtu.be/ABx26x-EMQ4



> Surprise, Surprise
> 
> @ 2004 Craig Carothers & Randy Sharp
> 
> Sad and sorry here you stand
> Suitcase and humble pie in hand
> Guess you had a change of plan
> Surprise, surprise
> 
> I still recall your fare-thee-well
> When you told me I could go to hell
> Now you're trying to un-ring that bell
> Surprise, surprise
> 
> CHORUS:
> I don't know what you thought you'd find
> But I'm not the one you left behind
> So if you've come back lookin' for what used to be
> You're gonna need your fool
> But that's not me
> Cause I got wise
> Surprise, surprise
> 
> Don't tell me, let me guess
> You’ve had a change of heartlessness
> Now you’re crawlin' back to your old address
> Surprise, surprise
> 
> Gone for good" that's what you swore
> Nothin' here to come back for
> But now look who's darkening my door
> Surprise, surprise
> 
> REPEAT CHORUS
> 
> Maybe you've got nowhere else to go.. or
> Maybe you just wanna make amends, I don't know...
> 
> But if you've come back lookin' for what used to be
> You're gonna need your fool
> And that's not me
> No I don't know what you thought you'd find
> But I'm not the one you left behind
> No I got wise...
> 
> Sad and sorry here you stand...


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Lots of opinion, which is great.
> 
> So, agreed, he might **** off soon, even more reason to not have him appear around the boys to suddenly disappear again. Can't have that being seen as normal by my sons.
> 
> I am still playing the typical fixer role, I know but that is what comes with being a Dad. I've made it clear, I don't want her back, we are incompatible, I could never think about touching her again, let alone anything else. Won't rise to the flowers or KISA jibes - I'm a great Dad, that is all there is to it.
> 
> honcho - That sounds exactly like my situation, why is it so difficult for me to stand by and watch - it can only be my fear of the impact on the kids. She is pretty unstable right now...
> 
> I like the differing views on here but each situation has it's own merits and a broad brush cannot be used for every case of infidelity. In this case, I have 2 very young children I have to consider, by using all the information I have to hand and assessing what I can control that will be in their best interests.
> 
> What we could do is let one son go and stay with her and POSOM, whereas the other one can stay with me. Then we can see in 15-30-45 years time, who was right, hey?


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Lots of opinion, which is great.
> 
> So, agreed, he might **** off soon, even more reason to not have him appear around the boys to suddenly disappear again. Can't have that being seen as normal by my sons.
> 
> I am still playing the typical fixer role, I know but that is what comes with being a Dad. I've made it clear, I don't want her back, we are incompatible, I could never think about touching her again, let alone anything else. Won't rise to the flowers or KISA jibes - I'm a great Dad, that is all there is to it.
> 
> honcho - That sounds exactly like my situation, why is it so difficult for me to stand by and watch - it can only be my fear of the impact on the kids. She is pretty unstable right now...
> 
> I like the differing views on here but each situation has it's own merits and a broad brush cannot be used for every case of infidelity. In this case, I have 2 very young children I have to consider, by using all the information I have to hand and assessing what I can control that will be in their best interests.
> 
> What we could do is let one son go and stay with her and POSOM, whereas the other one can stay with me. Then we can see in 15-30-45 years time, who was right, hey?


You can't fix this. You're not getting full custody. You can only do your part in raising your kids when you have them. She fired you and if you're smart you'll stay fired.


----------



## Affaircare

@Melrose8888, 

When my exH left the kids and I for his Wistress, we owned a $1mil business, had a 4000sqft house with an inground pool, two new cars every kids, kids in private school, and they were not babies but young: 9 and 12 or so. He left all that for a restaurant Asst.Mgr. in another state who had 4 kids by 4 men. I'm not an idiot--I saw it coming. I wanted to pound him over the head and say, "How is her commitment if she has 4 kids by 4 different men?" but of course their love was "special" and they were different. Actually I think he thought HE was different, and since HE was so special, she would love him forever (haha!). 

Guess what happened? I don't think they last a YEAR, and he caught her with the bartender in the back room (of course)--doing what she did to men! He was too proud to even consider apologizing or making the attempt to repair his family (not that I'd have considered it), but he had no job, no home, no friends--burned all those bridges when he left--and he was literally living out of a monthly-rent hotel!!! Meanwhile, as he went traipsing around the country, I bought a townhouse, got a job, got the kids into charter but not private school...and took care of business. 

And I share this with you because even though I could see it coming, I could not MAKE him be a good person or a good parent. I could have spoken until I was blue in the face, and he would never have heard me because he was in his own denial land. And don't you think it affected a 9yo to have a father just leave him? And don't you think the 12yo was upset and hurt by his own father having to live in a hooker hotel? I'm sure it did! But I COULD NOT MAKE HIM BE A GOOD PARENT!!! 

What I COULD do--as a parent who did actually care about my children--is teach them how to deal with anger...and how to deal with fear...and how to deal with the hurt of your own parent leaving you...and how to deal with a parent who's lying to you...and how to deal with someone who has hurt you. 
@Melrose8888, if you go through your life thinking: "I'll save her from the obvious upcoming train-wreck" you will be a controlling jerk. You will. Because you can not control another human being, and the only way to force her to avoid the train-wreck would be to take the choice away from her--that is the definition of "controlling." Plus she fired you from the job of being even her partner--so you are mailman to her now!! Does the mailman have much effect on how you choose to parent? No! Nor should he!! What you can do is teach your children. Be there for them. Be the living embodiment of what a parent CAN BE and then when they grow older all they have to do is copy you.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> This is probably going to split opinion but given she is, after all, the mother of my young kids and realistically needs to function at some level for the next 10 years, until they decide where they want to live, is there any benefit to sitting back and letting it all go to sh1t?
> 
> I mean, I know what the POSOM is really like, a guy who abuses his position to prey on women (5 known cases from his ex, likely many, many more). OK, the STBXW ****ed up too, she is a cheat, but she isn't anywhere near his level of serial cheating. She just fell for his grooming - she doesn't realise this, she sees him as a soul mate. Doesn't she deserve to know?
> 
> She will have a breakdown when he cheats on her and, as the mother of my boys, I fear for her sanity and the impact on the boys when they are with her. Even if she stays with him and doesn't discover his cheating, he will still be around my boys, bringing them up with a lack of morals and teaching them being a cheating rat pays.
> 
> OK, some will say, not my monkeys.....but it is, this is the development of my sons at risk here.


Wouldn't matter if you told her. He'd just pass it off as his own STBXW spreading lies to sabotage them.

Let her find out on her own.

Tell you what -- write it all out in a letter, but don't send it. Be sure to date it, though.

Then, when it all goes to ****, give her the dated letter.

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## Chuck71

Affaircare said:


> @Melrose8888,
> 
> When my exH left the kids and I for his Wistress, we owned a $1mil business, had a 4000sqft house with an inground pool, two new cars every kids, kids in private school, and they were not babies but young: 9 and 12 or so. He left all that for a *restaurant Asst.Mgr. in another state who had 4 kids by 4 men. * I'm not an idiot--I saw it coming. I wanted to pound him over the head and say, "How is her commitment if she has 4 kids by 4 different men?" but of course their love was "special" and they were different. Actually I think he thought HE was different, and since HE was so special, she would love him forever (haha!).
> 
> *Guess what happened? I don't think they last a YEAR, and he caught her with the bartender in the back room (of course)--doing what she did to men! * He was too proud to even consider apologizing or making the attempt to repair his family (not that I'd have considered it), but he had no job, no home, no friends--burned all those bridges when he left--and he was literally living out of a monthly-rent hotel!!! Meanwhile, as he went traipsing around the country, I bought a townhouse, got a job, got the kids into charter but not private school...and took care of business.
> 
> And I share this with you because even though I could see it coming, I could not MAKE him be a good person or a good parent. I could have spoken until I was blue in the face, and he would never have heard me because he was in his own denial land. And don't you think it affected a 9yo to have a father just leave him? And don't you think the 12yo was upset and hurt by his own father having to live in a hooker hotel? I'm sure it did! But I COULD NOT MAKE HIM BE A GOOD PARENT!!!
> 
> What I COULD do--as a parent who did actually care about my children--is teach them how to deal with anger...and how to deal with fear...and how to deal with the hurt of your own parent leaving you...and how to deal with a parent who's lying to you...and how to deal with someone who has hurt you.
> 
> @Melrose8888, if you go through your life thinking: "I'll save her from the obvious upcoming train-wreck" you will be a controlling jerk. You will. Because you can not control another human being, and the only way to force her to avoid the train-wreck would be to take the choice away from her--that is the definition of "controlling." Plus she fired you from the job of being even her partner--so you are mailman to her now!! Does the mailman have much effect on how you choose to parent? No! Nor should he!! What you can do is teach your children. Be there for them. Be the living embodiment of what a parent CAN BE and then when they grow older all they have to do is copy you.


To newbys, 4 kids by 4 guys.... management in food industry.... No F'ing way. But if you've been around TAM long enough.... it is no shock at all.

AC.... -HUGS-.... you did what you had to do. SMFH... you can't make this stuff up. I recall when I first started here.... late 2012, I started posting on Garry-TXs thread and livinfree posted on it too. Those were two of the first stories I followed. Livinfree's W "met" a guy over the PS3 console and before even meeting him... told her H and son she was leaving. To travel 800 miles to live with him... in a run down trailer in the middle of nowhere.

Livinfree picked himself up, made sure his son was seeing someone about the ordeal and could not wait for her to leave. I think GroundPound said the following: (The W had a huge crate to be delivered to the house so she could pack her stuff and leave) "Shouldn't we call this the "EX-Box?" 

Melrose.... you can laugh or you can cry. Your choice. You were pulling away from her orbit... but are now being pulled back in. -But you mates are just over reacting to what I did- ........ Are we? Notice the ones who are, have been on this board a good while, seen the exact same thing happen. I have never had a R, not even an attempted R. So Chuck .... WTF do you know? I know the pain. Pain is not prejudice.

-But this is different- No it's not, reason why we all mention the "cheater script." Melrose.... I'm telling you...... you are about to be seduced by the Dark Side.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi all - thanks for input.

I can see that it is controlling and that is something I am more than willing to work on - the fine line between caring and controlling, I find it difficult.

I think my controlling nature started when I became Dad - lots of responsibility and the boys have to do what they are told to stay alive! My mum is seen as a very caring person, always putting others first but I was aware, from my teens, that she was in fact controlling and so I distanced myself from her and we had a tough relationship until after I moved out properly, in my early twenties.

I know the STBXW will just see it all as lies (after all this the man who tells her 'being with you for the next 50 years, wouldn't be long enough' and she laps it up). As the POSOM said before to his wife, they are convinced I am just out to cause 'maximum damage to them'.

I guess it is time to give up, give in to them, if she thinks him meeting the kids is a good thing, then who am I to disagree. Let them eat cake.


----------



## Chuck71

You are a H and father. You are the protectorate over three other people. Add more if you have 

old parents in ailing health. You lead by character and example. And guess what... you ARE NOT

perfect. When others expect perfection out of you is where you can already see "The Wall" being

built. My post-D g/f and live-in thought, I was "perfect." We live very near hiking trails. One day

I made it a point to jump into a small stream. Why? To show her, I can not walk on water. She saw it as 

funny, I didn't. I foresaw what was to come, and it did. "You made me think you were perfect 

and I put you on a pedestal." No dear that was your job.... and when you learned I was NOT

perfect YOU blamed ME. Then I made you OWN it and you did not like the **** sandwich. 

You are seen as "Jesus Christ" and "Judas" as one in the same. Again... NOT your problem.


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, Decree Nisi pronounced so, aside from sealing financial consent order, I am potentially 6 weeks and a day away from absolute divorce. That would be exactly 5 months since D-day...

Of course, as petitioner, that is now in my hands and can only be triggered by the STBXW in 22 weeks time.

Good to be in control (ha!) and I will choose when the time is right to apply for absolute.


----------



## Evinrude58

You will have to learn to accept that which you cannot change.

I just hope you don't take back this lecherous woman with no character or loyalty, when she is left destitute by this "man" she's chosen.

Based on what you've described, it's a strong possibility that she will show up in the future.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> I've identified a strange trigger today. Despite the fact that the POSOM is her boss, so they see each other everyday, when i pick up my boys i know it 'frees' her to go and continue her affair without the chains of being a mother. That gets me angry. The fact she can just handover S7 and S4 to me, go off and have fun with her bald, old boss makes me mad.
> 
> As you know, I've stopped pain shopping by no longer FB snooping, so i don't (want to) know what they are doing but it still riles me.
> 
> I've also noticed me getting a little impatient with S4, as he tends to call me mummy by accident a lot and often asks when he is going back to stay with her. He is so young, so clearly know i need to give him plenty of understanding at this uncertain time but i do sometimes project that disappointment on to him by getting snappy


 @Melrose8888 You are lucky. My dad was so forgetful that he used to call all the children by our dog's name. 

And I am not joking! :rofl:


----------



## Melrose8888

The POSOM just texted me!!

I told STBXW, a couple of weeks ago when she tried to force him to meet my boys, that any attempt from her to change the verbal mediation agreement we had about him not being involved until after divorce, would result in me breaking my side of the agreement, namely telling their work about their affair. So, when my boys told me yesterday that he brought his kids old toys to the house for them to play with (he wasn't there, so still hasn't met them), I lost it with ex and told her that was it, she is forcing his presence on them and I was telling her work HR. She pleaded with me not to and I'm guessing that got him rattled too.

He says: 

The toy gesture wasn't malicious, but perhaps in hindsight not very thoughtful in the wider context. Assuming that you will consider it at the appropriate juncture, I am content that I do not meet your children until you give your approval. It would be useful to meet to chat.

Don't worry, I'm not replying and I won't be meeting him or giving my approval.

The OMW has offered to speak to my STBXW, to tell her what her husband is really like but as discussed here in depth, I agree, it won't change a thing, they are in lala land. "you don't realise how different things are with him"


----------



## Chuck71

Testing boundaries.... you did well. Try to remain calm when they test it. They do want a rise out

of you. Looks like they are scared of HR finding out.... this is your trump card.

Do not throw it down until you HAVE to. It's a once-used only card. Maximize its effect.


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 there is another way to look at this incident.

OM to your ex wife to be: "Yes. I think the world of your children. So much so that I am bringing them some old, used toys from my old family, the family I am abandoning to be with you."

That's wrong on a multiplicity of levels.

Old toys should be taken to a charity shop, not dumped on the children of your love rival! 

What next? Is he going to give her his wife's used knickers?


----------



## Satya

Don't answer. 
Make him sweat. In the meantime, he will stay away from the kids since the matter is wide open and you hold all the cards. 

Carry on with the D, and I suggest you draft that letter/email to HR, get all the contacts for the company Board as well to CC them, and save the letter in your draft folder so if he pulls anything, you're ready to send it in 5 seconds.


----------



## Melrose8888

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888
> 
> What next? Is he going to give her his wife's used knickers?


Oh Matt, that is a great line. Will save that for post-divorce, should anything else like this occur!


----------



## Melrose8888

Satya said:


> Don't answer.
> Make him sweat. In the meantime, he will stay away from the kids since the matter is wide open and you hold all the cards.
> 
> Carry on with the D, and I suggest you draft that letter/email to HR, get all the contacts for the company Board as well to CC them, and save the letter in your draft folder so if he pulls anything, you're ready to send it in 5 seconds.


You folks at TAM have nurtured me well; said email has been sitting in my drafts for last 8 weeks....

It would throw financial settlement wide open but if necessary, what will be, will be.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> The POSOM just texted me!!
> 
> I told STBXW, a couple of weeks ago when she tried to force him to meet my boys, that any attempt from her to change the verbal mediation agreement we had about him not being involved until after divorce, would result in me breaking my side of the agreement, namely telling their work about their affair. So, when my boys told me yesterday that he brought his kids old toys to the house for them to play with (he wasn't there, so still hasn't met them), I lost it with ex and told her that was it, she is forcing his presence on them and I was telling her work HR. She pleaded with me not to and I'm guessing that got him rattled too.
> 
> He says:
> 
> The toy gesture wasn't malicious, but perhaps in hindsight not very thoughtful in the wider context. Assuming that you will consider it at the appropriate juncture, I am content that I do not meet your children until you give your approval. It would be useful to meet to chat.
> 
> Don't worry, I'm not replying and I won't be meeting him or giving my approval.
> 
> The OMW has offered to speak to my STBXW, to tell her what her husband is really like but as discussed here in depth, I agree, it won't change a thing, they are in lala land. "you don't realise how different things are with him"


Sounds like it's time to double down on your gym time.

If you reply at all, send a screenshot of the company website showing the number to HR.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Even his text message makes him sound like a right arseh0le! Wider context indeed! The wider context should be explained to him in public - that he used his position to pursue another married mother who worked for him and is now trying to buy her kids off with old used toys! No it wasn't malicious, it was just plain vile!

And if you ever do engage him, tell him since he has agreed not to meet your kids until he has your approval, tell him "OK, how does NEVER sound to you? You prepared to stand by that, you piece of ****? Of course you will because then you get the piece of a$$ without the bother of pretending to be nice to her kids!" All this should go down in public - especially people that he works with. It seems that the best place to hurt him is in the pocket and at work! Maybe his wife should be by your side when this goes down.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh Matt, that is a great line. Will save that for post-divorce, should anything else like this occur!


 @Melrose8888

Well, your wife may squeal her thanks at such a moving gesture.

After all, she took on his wife's used husband, her children's used toys, so why not her used Marks and Sparks knickers? >

She'd be like this 









or maybe like this


----------



## Satya

Honestly, if you were to reply with _anything_, it should only be: "There's nothing to discuss."

Because literally, there isn't. You set your boundaries and they are clearly spelled out in your agreement.
Any deviation constitutes a breach of that agreement. End of. So again, nothing to discuss.


----------



## Melrose8888

Asked my solicitor today, if POSOM and or STBXW losing their jobs would impact the financial settlement at this stage. He suggested, as they are both still of good age and employable, a court would see no reason to change the terms.

So i suggested to OMW that we turn up to their work next week (she completes on new house funded by POSOM then) and blow it wide open! She wrote back saying we should take our 4 kids with us, so everyone will see!! It's all in jest but very tempting...

However, i think I'm leaning towards letting her find out the hard way, what impact all of this is going to have on her life.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose I am all about consequences for [email protected] So hell yeah! Put some wrinkles on that bald head of his and cheating face of hers.


----------



## Evinrude58

Solve financial stuff and go to HR.

After he finishes with your wife, he'll be pulling thus sane **** with the next looker he has authority over. This NEEDs to be told.
He earned his reputation, now let him worry about living with it. He got your wife, you should feel no irritation about letting them both find jobs while they're feeling so great about their new fantasy life.

Giving his own kids old toys to the AP's kids? Yeah, he has no class, no respect for your wife's dignity, either. They are a perfect couple. 

You are. Try lucky to get rid of your leach. 
Your were done a solid by the old man....... you'll see it soon.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Asked my solicitor today, if POSOM and or STBXW losing their jobs would impact the financial settlement at this stage. He suggested, as they are both still of good age and employable, a court would see no reason to change the terms.
> 
> So i suggested to OMW that we turn up to their work next week (she completes on new house funded by POSOM then) and blow it wide open! She wrote back saying we should take our 4 kids with us, so everyone will see!! It's all in jest but very tempting...
> 
> However, i think I'm leaning towards letting her find out the hard way, what impact all of this is going to have on her life.


As long as WW and POSOM are respecting your boundaries and WW is not trying to tie up

the D in court, "stand still." Yeah... I'm all for exposure but as you indicated if you were to, it

would be after the D is final. The sooner this D is final, the better. You have not mentioned

you were getting shafted financially, sail in calm waters unless provoked. 








Maybe when the two "lovebirds" each have the kids, why don't you and OMW go out, have a few

drinks, have a blast. I'm not saying RA, just night on the town.


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> As long as WW and POSOM are respecting your boundaries and WW is not trying to tie up
> 
> the D in court, "stand still." Yeah... I'm all for exposure but as you indicated if you were to, it
> 
> would be after the D is final. The sooner this D is final, the better. You have not mentioned
> 
> you were getting shafted financially, sail in calm waters unless provoked.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK-AFHdD7Vw
> 
> 
> Maybe when the two "lovebirds" each have the kids, why don't you and OMW go out, have a few
> 
> drinks, have a blast. I'm not saying RA, just night on the town.


This. 

Please note that your solicitor used the word "should".

Don't let the reckoning risk, in any way, shape, or form, your financial future. 

Be disciplined, Melrose, and stop focusing on your STBXWW. There has been entirely too much of that as of late.


----------



## MattMatt

Exposure at this stage would be like juggling with chainsaws










It looks really, really cool but there's always the small chance that the end result would be











At this stage, @Melrose8888, I suggest you and the other BS keep your powder dry so that when the exposure comes it'll be beautiful, like *this*


----------



## Evinrude58

I'll go along with waiting.
I just hope melrose gives us the heads up as to the results of his coup de gras at HR.

These miserable cheaters deserve to get knocked out of their fantasy land of happiness when two families and two individuals whom they gave an oath to be faithful to, have been eviscerated by their betrayal.

I am personally looking forward to seeing melrose's description of their faces when they are axed from their company. And I suspect the word will spread to future employers.

The OM has exposed himself with his little email.

Melrose and the OM ex wife need to expose the same day, and go out for drinks together while the timer slowly winds down.

Yes, I'm triggering, and want my vicarious revenge.
Can't help it. They have it coming.
I, too, know your pain Melrose.


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## Danny4133

Agree fully with Matt and Evinrude 

Patience is a virtue and it's in short supply in our situ. You (and we) want to cause maximum damage, to do that you need perfect timing. It needs to be fast, well thought out and ideally from you and obs same day.

I've got the exposure weapon also Melrose, it's taken monumental patience to withhold it, but I'm using it to drive the divorce through. 

As has been said it's a once only card.
When you program the launchcode and hit fire you're doing so for you, your kids the obs, her kids and all of us that have been screwed over. 

Good on you mate.


----------



## Evinrude58

And here comes the dogooders saying "revenge is wrong", and "you should be above that", and "she's still the kid's mom".....

Well, letting people go uncontested with despicable behavior is what causes them to carry out repeat performances on their next victims.
My opinion, at least.
I'd relish exposing this predatory OM to his HR department, and I'd have the same amount of guilt he's carrying around over taking your wife and beating up your kid's home--- zero.

He will think twice about chasing a woman that he's got authority over at work. 

Your rotten wife..... why should you care what happens to her? You're going to take care of your kids now matter what

You're fired........ she needs to hear that. She'll know how it sounded when she told you the same.


----------



## Marc878

Revenge is a good thing if you do it right. Well planned and executed.


----------



## Melrose8888

Agree with all of you - wait until divorce is final - should be start of June. The OBS is very nervous about exposure, partly because he is paying the mortgage on her & kids new house, their school fees and is actually not willing to get divorced (shock, horror!) but rather sit out the 2 years of separation (some bull**** excuse about it being cheaper). I've told her that is crap and he is keeping her as Plan B / an exit plan. Told her to divorce on unreasonable behaviour and get clean break through mediation, with mortgage / school payments in it. She is stalling.....I believe her when she says she doesn't want him back but he's been so controlling (there is that word again!) over finances, that she is scared.

I've reassured her he'll have to keep paying the mortgage by hook or crook, else his credit is buggered for life. School fees? Meh, never been one for private schools myself but that is tough on her kids, I agree.

Likelihood is that he will have another job before June, apparently he has been looking since he hooked up with my ex in October. Not many CIO jobs around here though, hence the proposed move north that I mentioned a few weeks ago.

Off to a whisky show and gig in London tomorrow - need it after a week with 2 sick kids - youngest has chicken pox - never rains but it pours....


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## farsidejunky

Leverage the hell out of that for a favorable settlement.


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## inging

_In the wider context of a mature relationship one should be mature for the sake of the children. As responsible parents we should learn to manage the childrens expectations and allow for the inevitable change that is life. You are a marvelous Father and I am sure you would agree that harold is a perfect Father too. He brought some toys for the children and is anxiously waiting to meet them. It is not mature of you to stop this in the context of my new relationship. _

How am I doing with cheater speak? 
I have been listening to this twaddle for 6 years. It goes on and on and on and on while they attempt to normalize their relationship. Let them eat their own dogfood. Let them feel the weight of reality 

Stay away from this toxic swamp. Do not engage. Do not try to work it out with logic and stuff.

Exposure might backfire now. I am not even sure it is needed as it will all become painfully clear to employers as time is moving on. 
Blek.. Revenge is a dish best served cold my friend.


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## sokillme

You can but you should wait until it will have the best impact if it backfires on you then it won't. If you are not hurt by it and only she is the boom.


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## Chuck71

Evinrude58 said:


> *And here comes the dogooders saying "revenge is wrong", and "you should be above that", and "she's still the kid's mom".....*
> 
> Well, letting people go uncontested with despicable behavior is what causes them to carry out repeat performances on their next victims.
> My opinion, at least.
> I'd relish exposing this predatory OM to his HR department, and I'd have the same amount of guilt he's carrying around over taking your wife and beating up your kid's home--- zero.
> 
> He will think twice about chasing a woman that he's got authority over at work.
> 
> Your rotten wife..... why should you care what happens to her? You're going to take care of your kids now matter what
> 
> You're fired........ she needs to hear that. She'll know how it sounded when she told you the same.


You sound soooo much like my pop :smthumbup:


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## Melrose8888

inging said:


> _In the wider context of a mature relationship one should be mature for the sake of the children. As responsible parents we should learn to manage the childrens expectations and allow for the inevitable change that is life. You are a marvelous Father and I am sure you would agree that harold is a perfect Father too. He brought some toys for the children and is anxiously waiting to meet them. It is not mature of you to stop this in the context of my new relationship. _
> 
> How am I doing with cheater speak?
> I have been listening to this twaddle for 6 years. It goes on and on and on and on while they attempt to normalize their relationship. Let them eat their own dogfood. Let them feel the weight of reality
> 
> Stay away from this toxic swamp. Do not engage. Do not try to work it out with logic and stuff.
> 
> Exposure might backfire now. I am not even sure it is needed as it will all become painfully clear to employers as time is moving on.
> Blek.. Revenge is a dish best served cold my friend.


Hey ing, you've got some serious talent there  ...thankfully, this is the only place you'll get to use it, unlike the POS out there, that talk that way daily.

Exposure remains a threat to keep them in line but that is all.


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## Evinrude58

What particularly sucks to me about the step-parent, is that they get to be "buddies" with the kids. The kids think this is so great, the step-parent is so awesome! They don't fuss at us and give us problems like Dad does! Dad is such a pain in the arse compared to step-dad.

They won't get for many years that step-dad has no vested interest in the kids. The kids are only there because he likes their mom. The step parent is not required to care about the kids character or their future. They certainly don't usually have to be involved in discipline.

I get that step parents are often super good parents to their step children. But not all, and lots get to do the buddy thing.....

This leaves the real parent that loves the kids and wants to be parent and not a buddy, looking like an overbearing jerk.

I know this doesn't help, but at least you can expect this to happen.


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## Melrose8888

:iagree:

My biggest fear summed up perfectly in one post. But it works both ways, so if I get into a serious relationship again, the ex will have a counterpart and the dynamic will be the same.

I wouldn't mind as much if it were a 'normal' step-dad, rather than an AP, a serial cheater, who has older kids of his own, who he isn't parenting well either.


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## Chuck71

Evinrude58 said:


> What particularly sucks to me about the step-parent, is that they get to be "buddies" with the kids. The kids think this is so great, the step-parent is so awesome! They don't fuss at us and give us problems like Dad does! Dad is such a pain in the arse compared to step-dad.
> 
> They won't get for many years that step-dad has no vested interest in the kids. The kids are only there because he likes their mom. The step parent is not required to care about the kids character or their future. They certainly don't usually have to be involved in discipline.
> 
> I get that step parents are often super good parents to their step children. But not all, and lots get to do the buddy thing.....
> 
> This leaves the real parent that loves the kids and wants to be parent and not a buddy, looking like an overbearing jerk.
> 
> I know this doesn't help, but at least you can expect this to happen.


Let the step-parent be their friend.... because the parent.... has to be the parent.

One can be a parent and a friend to pre-teen and teen kids but only a VERY select few pull this off.

It's easy to be Clint Eastwood / Bobby Knight disciplinarian or a Kardashian / ?Spears? "let them 

run free because they still need parenting themselves." It's somewhere in the middle.

Children love and crave discipline. Yes they will cuss you under their breath and to their friends....

but they want to feel safe and secure.


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## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> My biggest fear summed up perfectly in one post. But it works both ways, so if I get into a serious relationship again, the ex will have a counterpart and the dynamic will be the same.
> 
> I wouldn't mind as much if it were a 'normal' step-dad, rather than an AP, a serial cheater, who has older kids of his own, who he isn't parenting well either.


Question..... two years down the road. You are fully ready to start a LTR. Would you prefer this

with a childless female.... or a female with children themselves? If you prefer one with kids,

would you prefer them to be same aged as yours, older, or younger?

I'm not curious.... I have reasons for asking.


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## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Question..... two years down the road. You are fully ready to start a LTR. Would you prefer this
> 
> with a childless female.... or a female with children themselves? If you prefer one with kids,
> 
> would you prefer them to be same aged as yours, older, or younger?
> 
> I'm not curious.... I have reasons for asking.


Hmmm, good Q.

Well, I don't want any more children, so if she is childless and is OK with that, then great.
Thing about someone else with kids is, I'll only have mine 50% of the time and during that time, I would like to give them my full attention, whereas someone else with kids, say we had them the 'same' week, would be around a little too much for my liking. If I did find another mother, same age kids would be better.
I'd rather have my kids, then have 'my' 50% of time without them, being with my new gf, so I get to enjoy something out of this **** situation...


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## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Hmmm, good Q.
> 
> Well, I don't want any more children, so if she is childless and is OK with that, then great.
> Thing about someone else with kids is, I'll only have mine 50% of the time and during that time, I would like to give them my full attention, whereas someone else with kids, say we had them the 'same' week, would be around a little too much for my liking. If I did find another mother, same age kids would be better.
> I'd rather have my kids, then have 'my' 50% of time without them, being with my new gf, so I get to enjoy something out of this **** situation...


Quite a quandary isn't it! Many blended families try to set it up to where one of the children are there

one weekend, then the others, the other weekend. Sounds great! But what about the couple? 

No true "us" time. Or if you each have the kids same weekend, one spends time with theirs, 

as does the other..... maybe meet all up a few times as a large group. That way you and her 

have the other weekend.... to yourself. You need a freaking PhD in planning to figure this out.

What if she works a different shift than you? What if she works weekends and you through the week?

I tip my hat to couples that pull this off successfully. Since you said you don't want any

more kids, you just jinxed yourself. You will meet a single female with no children who wants

children LOL..... Just the way it goes.....

The worst part has to be knowing the X spouse is exposing the kids to negative people.

And unless they are violent criminals.... you can't do a damn thing about it. THAT'S tough....


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## Hopeful Cynic

I would not do ANYTHING to rock the boat until everything is final and secured with paperwork complete, and nobody can change their minds.

And if you hold out long enough on giving your approval for the AP to meet your kids, it may never happen, if things are as unstable as you believe.

Lastly, it's hard, but you should probably hope that their relationship lasts long enough for you to recover from what happened and be settled in your new life before they break up. She'll be a wreck when it happens, and you want to no longer be a wreck yourself by that time.


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## Evinrude58

I hope she stays with the dude long enough for you too accept it's over and move on, too.
That was good advice.

That relationship is going nowhere, and when it crashes and burns, guess who is going to get the call from old squeaky?

Yep, you. And you need to be far too gone to ever look at this woman and reminisce about "the good times".

I would write down the bs she's trying of you and the evil she's done to you and keep it handy when she comes back wanting old melrose to fall back on.

You are going to have a hard time dealing with this. She is a piece of work. 

Sorry, man.


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## Melrose8888

Well, the STBXW has always maintained that she was always going to end our marriage and that she wasn't leaving me for the POSOM. This is because she told me she was unhappy and we are better off apart (albeit after their affair moved from EA to PA).

So even if it all goes tits up, in her mind "this is for the best" - and you know what? She's right!!!!! Yes, I know she is protecting her reputation (what's left of it!) in case it doesn't work out with him but I doubt very much she will come crawling back. I note she was searching for all of her ex boyfriends and uni friends a while back...

Either way, she knows its over, I've driven this divorce process on my own and continue to push it, without arousing her suspicions about why I want it done so quickly, so she knows she has zero chance of getting me back. Plus she thinks I have a GF (OBW told POSOM this as a little game playing and he passed this on to ex), so that is another thing to hold her back.

Positive today. Long may it continue!!


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## Chuck71

Evinrude58 said:


> I hope she stays with the dude long enough for you too accept it's over and move on, too.
> That was good advice.
> 
> That relationship is going nowhere, and when it crashes and burns, guess who is going to get the call from old squeaky?
> 
> Yep, you. And you need to be far too gone to ever look at this woman and reminisce about "the good times".
> 
> I would write down the bs she's trying of you and the evil she's done to you and keep it handy when she comes back wanting old melrose to fall back on.
> 
> You are going to have a hard time dealing with this. She is a piece of work.
> 
> Sorry, man.


Be not over-confident yet also be not the dustrug. Slippery slope. Calm waters unless provoked.

Never start a fight but be happy to finish it.


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## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, the STBXW has always maintained that she was always going to end our marriage and that she wasn't leaving me for the POSOM. This is because she told me she was unhappy and we are better off apart (albeit after their affair moved from EA to PA).
> 
> So even if it all goes tits up, in her mind "this is for the best" - and you know what? She's right!!!!! Yes, I know she is protecting her reputation (what's left of it!) in case it doesn't work out with him but I doubt very much she will come crawling back. I note she was searching for all of her ex boyfriends and uni friends a while back...
> 
> Either way, she knows its over, I've driven this divorce process on my own and continue to push it, without arousing her suspicions about why I want it done so quickly, so she knows she has zero chance of getting me back. Plus she thinks I have a GF (OBW told POSOM this as a little game playing and he passed this on to ex), so that is another thing to hold her back.
> 
> Positive today. Long may it continue!!


She has to end it on her terms.... she has to re-write history. Orwell 1984 style.

Tits up.....I'm stealing that line!!!! 

In other words, it's ALL your fault LOL

Don't think she'll come crawling back.... try me. I have helped friends with relationship issues

for nearly 30 years. THEY come back, 98%. NOW... the reasoning, that's the trick.

Many return wanting to rugsweep and return to the "way we were"

This is why I and others, say move past and grow.... because when she comes a 'nockin .....

and she will, <98%, -write it on the walls as my pop would say- YOU will be able to have a clear and 

concise choice... to take them back or not. BTW.... less than 10% do..... Guess why.

She is chasing yesterday .... which didn't work out WHY? I re-connected with my former g/fs from

the 90s, 1st and 2nd love, but not for re-capture. Would they want re-capture? Oh he!!s yes, 

admitted it. I know better.... Melrose..... you will too.

"Where you're going, I've done been." Popism.... He told to me, as I tell to you M.


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## Melrose8888

Hi all, quick update / advice request.

Off on holiday with my boys next week after a horrendous spell where S4 had chicken pox, S7 had sick bug and now I've got tonsillitis! Fingers crossed we all get some good health soon...

On divorce, Nisi pronounced and I've signed the consent order, the financial agreement for the judge to seal. STBXW has documents for her to sign, so should be entered to court next week. Pretty much home and dry if judge doesn't object.

I understand that POSOM is off to meet MIL & exs Aunt while I'm away. I've spoken to them both and both seem to think this was just something that 'happened' ie history rewrite.

Question is, I have my 'correction of history letter' waiting to go, nothing too emotional, just my disappointment at chain of events, asking for understanding about how our future relationship​ cannot be the same after this but hoping they support my son's more than ever. There is a timeline of events and one version​ that include some screenshots of the damning texts.

At this stage, do you think it's important to send that email to MIL before POSOM meets them and rewrites history further or should i just let it go and forget about the truth?


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## manfromlamancha

My view is, if you are sure the divorce terms cannot be derailed etc, then yes, send it. Make sure that it is clear that marital history is being rewritten and you need them to know the truth in order to best support your sons.


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## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, quick update / advice request.
> 
> Off on holiday with my boys next week after a horrendous spell where S4 had chicken pox, S7 had sick bug and now I've got tonsillitis! Fingers crossed we all get some good health soon...
> 
> On divorce, Nisi pronounced and I've signed the consent order, the financial agreement for the judge to seal. STBXW has documents for her to sign, so should be entered to court next week. Pretty much home and dry if judge doesn't object.
> 
> I understand that POSOM is off to meet MIL & exs Aunt while I'm away. I've spoken to them both and both seem to think this was just something that 'happened' ie history rewrite.
> 
> Question is, I have my 'correction of history letter' waiting to go, nothing too emotional, just my disappointment at chain of events, asking for understanding about how our future relationship​ cannot be the same after this but hoping they support my son's more than ever. There is a timeline of events and one version​ that include some screenshots of the damning texts.
> 
> At this stage, do you think it's important to send that email to MIL before POSOM meets them and rewrites history further or should i just let it go and forget about the truth?


Are you 100% sure the D is all written, checked, sealed and just needs to be signed off by judge?

If not... hold your fire. Do you still plan on exposure at their work? As for exposure to her family,

that is a mixed bag. Her family most likely already knows, this isn't her first meltdown.

Even if her family knows she F'ed everything up, still family and family would rather rugsweep

it rather than get into a cuss fight every time there is a gathering. Melrose.... what do you want

to gain from this? "Everything comes out in the wash" and it does. You want your side heard.

I 110% get that. Make sure the letter is short, precise, to the point. If you attack her... they will

be likely to dismiss the letter.


----------



## TaDor

Until that court order is *SIGNED*... don't rock the boat yet. Sorry, but until the judge signs that paperwork - any changes or wrenches can be thrown in.

When I made the final orders - she went over it, agreed to it before I printed it out. Luckily for my wife, I'm not the kind of person to screw someone over... I actually could have added more items and she wouldn't have bothered reading it.

Once judge signs "FINAL ORDER" - making any changes afterward is very expensive and tends to make them... ANGRY.

I think you SHOULD expose to her family. And here is a reason why you should ADD it to the letter (with pics) you want to send them.

"I am telling you about your daughter's affair because her "new" boyfriend is not what he seems. She meet him at XYZ (I forgot - I gather work) and was having a sexual relationship months before we broke up - even going out to see him after I found out. She made no effort to save the marriage. You should understand that I do not support or want *MY* children around her affair partner... for he was involved with breaking up *MY* children's home. He has hurt our children. My ex-wife has HURT my children. I will not be his friend and any interactions with my kids makes my skin crawl. Any family events in which he is there, I will not be there and neither will the kids if they are on my time.

Someday, our kids will know what their mother did and how the affair partner is. There is nothing that will keep that from happening".

Something like that. So they know why YOU don't want to be near the POSOM.


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## Melrose8888

No, the final divorce is not certain but it would be an incredible turn from where we are if that were to change. She tells friends she's "never felt love like it, that brings innate peace". So pretty sure the bubble is in tact.

I doubt an email to her mum will rock that boat. My intention is for people to see what really happened, what she is like but, because of my boys, what POSOM is really like, before he gets in front of them and starts spouting his **** song the lines of "he is aggressive and I have come to save and protect her" - this is what he told his wife....

I am still at war to ensure he never meets my boys and this feels any important opportunity to influence that.

The letter is balanced but makes it clear all i do, say and ask is for the sake of the boys.


----------



## BobSimmons

Melrose8888 said:


> No, the final divorce is not certain but it would be an incredible turn from where we are if that were to change. She tells friends she's "never felt love like it, that brings innate peace". So pretty sure the bubble is in tact.
> 
> I doubt an email to her mum will rock that boat. My intention is for people to see what really happened, what she is like but, because of my boys, what POSOM is really like, before he gets in front of them and starts spouting his **** song the lines of "he is aggressive and I have come to save and protect her" - this is what he told his wife....
> 
> I am still at war to ensure he never meets my boys and this feels any important opportunity to influence that.
> 
> The letter is balanced but makes it clear all i do, say and ask is for the sake of the boys.


Which people are those?

Surely the people that matter know the whole truth? Any campaign to let others know what happened (assuming it's friends and relatives of XW) will just be met with either he's lying/bitter or the marital rewrite which will make it look like this guy was the white knight who saved her life.

I don't get emails and letters. Surely this is something you'd say to your MIL's face or over the phone?


----------



## Melrose8888

BobSimmons said:


> Which people are those?
> 
> Surely the people that matter know the whole truth? Any campaign to let others know what happened (assuming it's friends and relatives of XW) will just be met with either he's lying/bitter or the marital rewrite which will make it look like this guy was the white knight who saved her life.
> 
> I don't get emails and letters. Surely this is something you'd say to your MIL's face or over the phone?


Hey Bob, yes this would just be MIL and Aunt, there aren't any others that warrant any interaction. I have spoken to MIL over the phone​ but last time she said "she wouldn't have meant to do this, sometimes things just happen". Well, yes they do, when you have serial cheater as boss who uses his position to groom your daughter away from husband and kids.

I've done a bitterness check on the content and acknowledge some of it appears that way but only in protection of my boys. Plus, her family are all very much in to written word, so it would be very well received...


----------



## Marc878

Don't expect much. Blood is always thicker than water. They'll probably take her side no matter what.


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## MJJEAN

If her mothers response was more or less "these things just happen" don't be too disappointed at an underwhelming response to your reveal. It sounds like her family will click their tongues and shake their heads, maybe some snarky gossip among cousins and whatnot, but that's about it. And, really, what are they supposed to do? She's an adult and their blood.


----------



## Evinrude58

You'll get nothing from her parents.

Her mom-- sometimes things just happen......

They totally don't give a damn about what their daughter has done.
Into the "written word"????
Well let's just say I have experience with inlaws like that.

You'll see how much their "beliefs" matter when they shrug their shoulders and start telling your kids how you were a bad husband and their mom just wasn't happy and they hate what happened, but glad their daughter found love again.

Don't even waste your time.
Seriously. People can spin anything against you.

End result: you're a bad guy and their daughter just wasn't happy. Thank God for Posom..... He moves in mysterious ways....

All is well. 

Just telling you--- be prepared.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose.... you have been given solid advice both ways. A-Don't send letter to family, move on and

live your life. B-You were jilted, painted black, and re-written as the "bad man / bad father."

You want to do to her, what she did to you.... 110% normal. You want things to be known for the 

sake of your boys.... 110% normal. Melrose... what do you want to do?

If you send it, do not expect a response. I have sent a couple letters similar to yours in my past.

Both responded but one... was years later. It didn't matter to me one way or the other.

If it will bother you by not getting a response, consider postponing or not sending. 

If you still plan on exposing to their work after D final, consider a 1-2 punch. The work thing will

certainly give her family reason to rally around her.

I do know people, male and female, M or just LTR, who did not send the letter to family.

When the one who walked away wanted a re-capture, they had them 'fess up to family about the whys.

Not in all cases but most, the jilted one told the other to then GFY and wanted nothing to do with them. 

Poetic justice....


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> No, the final divorce is not certain but it would be an incredible turn from where we are if that were to change. She tells friends she's "never felt love like it, that brings innate peace". So pretty sure the bubble is in tact.
> 
> I doubt an email to her mum will rock that boat. My intention is for people to see what really happened, what she is like but, because of my boys, what POSOM is really like, before he gets in front of them and starts spouting his **** song the lines of "he is aggressive and I have come to save and protect her" - this is what he told his wife....
> 
> I am still at war to ensure he never meets my boys and this feels any important opportunity to influence that.
> 
> The letter is balanced but makes it clear all i do, say and ask is for the sake of the boys.


Melrose, as you are being advised do not expose at work until the paperwork is all signed off by the judge.

However, you can let the family know exactly what happened and in the way you described it here. Acknowledge that sometimes people can change their minds, develop feelings etc when it comes to talking about your wife. However, point out that the POSOM used his position to do what he did, explain what he is like and point out that you sincerely believe that he is not good for your kids and you will be watching him like a hawk. Then mention that he will probably tell you what he has said to his own wife to justify what he is doing - that you are aggressive and he is saving your wife from you. Reassure them that this couldn't be further from the truth and that you have never been aggressive to her but to please not fall for his lies and to please watch out for your boys when you are not around (as you don't trust him). This can go out now before he gets to tell them otherwise. And you can add all the details at this point.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, quick update / advice request.
> 
> Off on holiday with my boys next week after a horrendous spell where S4 had chicken pox, S7 had sick bug and now I've got tonsillitis! Fingers crossed we all get some good health soon...
> 
> On divorce, Nisi pronounced and I've signed the consent order, the financial agreement for the judge to seal. STBXW has documents for her to sign, so should be entered to court next week. Pretty much home and dry if judge doesn't object.
> 
> I understand that POSOM is off to meet MIL & exs Aunt while I'm away. I've spoken to them both and both seem to think this was just something that 'happened' ie history rewrite.
> 
> Question is, I have my 'correction of history letter' waiting to go, nothing too emotional, just my disappointment at chain of events, asking for understanding about how our future relationship​ cannot be the same after this but hoping they support my son's more than ever. There is a timeline of events and one version​ that include some screenshots of the damning texts.
> 
> At this stage, do you think it's important to send that email to MIL before POSOM meets them and rewrites history further or should i just let it go and forget about the truth?


 @Melrose8888, bearing in mind what happened to @SID SNOT, please have that letter checked by your solicitor before you send it to anyone.


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888, bearing in mind what happened to @SID SNOT, please have that letter checked by your solicitor before you send it to anyone.


How did his get flagged?


----------



## sidney2718

Chuck71 said:


> Are you 100% sure the D is all written, checked, sealed and just needs to be signed off by judge?
> 
> If not... hold your fire. Do you still plan on exposure at their work? As for exposure to her family,
> 
> that is a mixed bag. Her family most likely already knows, this isn't her first meltdown.
> 
> Even if her family knows she F'ed everything up, still family and family would rather rugsweep
> 
> it rather than get into a cuss fight every time there is a gathering. Melrose.... what do you want
> 
> to gain from this? "Everything comes out in the wash" and it does. You want your side heard.
> 
> I 110% get that. Make sure the letter is short, precise, to the point. If you attack her... they will
> 
> be likely to dismiss the letter.


Chuck is right. Blood family will almost certainly take her side. Privately they may have other opinions but in public... 

Nothing wrong with sending them a letter, just don't expect them to come out on your side.


----------



## MattMatt

Chuck71 said:


> How did his get flagged?


He was found guilty of harassment for sending out an exposure email.

And under UK law, it's a crime full stop/period. We do not have the felony/misdemeanor distinction in the UK.


----------



## inging

Don't bother sending a letter to her family . The keywords there are "her family".

One of the benefits of Divorce is that you never have to go to one of her family events, ever again. I would maintain cordial distant relationship for your kids benefit. Allow the same access as before to your kids Grandparents. They will always come down on her side. 
Sending a letter is redundant Melrose. I get you'r looking for justice but you won't find it there

Let it go.
Live well


----------



## Thor

My opinion is don't bother trying to convince her family of anything. They'll rationalize her behavior as justified.

But, it is very important that they don't poison your sons against you with lies. This is where your letter may be of value. It is possible they don't know what the basic truth is, so give them some specific information and back it perhaps with some hard evidence. It doesn't have to be voluminous evidence, just one text she sent which can have no alternate meaning. Something to prove what you're saying is true. Ask them to respect the separation of the marital relationship from the kids by not involving them in discussions about the divorce, and to not tell them false information. If they do tell the boys false information you will consider it an attempt to alienate them from you, and thus you will fully inform them of the true reasons for the divorce and the behavior of their mother. Similarly, if they spread false information to others about you, you will correct the record.

What Tador wrote a few posts above looks good to me. Also I think there is value in what Manfromlamancha wrote about posom not being around your kids because he was integral to the destruction of your family, which is harmful to your children.


----------



## Evinrude58

They will alienate you from your kids--- anyone on her side of the family. There isn't jackpoo you can do about it, other than be a good dad. The kids will be able to look back when they're older and see the truth, if you're lucky.

Divorce sucks.
Staying with a cheater sux worse, I suspect.


----------



## Chaparral

Melrose8888 said:


> No, the final divorce is not certain but it would be an incredible turn from where we are if that were to change. She tells friends she's "never felt love like it, that brings innate peace". So pretty sure the bubble is in tact.
> 
> I doubt an email to her mum will rock that boat. My intention is for people to see what really happened, what she is like but, because of my boys, what POSOM is really like, before he gets in front of them and starts spouting his **** song the lines of "he is aggressive and I have come to save and protect her" - this is what he told his wife....
> 
> I am still at war to ensure he never meets my boys and this feels any important opportunity to influence that.
> 
> The letter is balanced but makes it clear all i do, say and ask is for the sake of the boys.


Keep it short. Tell them about the many affairs and what a scumbag he is and that he needs to be watched around the boys. He must be a smooth operator so warn them he will be trying to con them too. Give them his wife's phone number.


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks all, it's a tricky one. This will be the first meet with him so I see it as a one time opportunity to reinforce what really happened, so they have an opinion formed when they first meet him, before he turns on the sleazy cheater charm that seems to have got him so far in previous affairs.

Good warning Matt - I believe, that as this is a one to one private email correspondence, that is cannot be construed as harassment. Plus, the content is basically:

There are 2 sides to every story
POSOM could / should have been a friend of the marriage but broke it and my kids home
Boys are priority, please support and look out for them
My aggravation over affair, ex lack of respect and he disregard for marriage / her boys
Making it clear POSOM has wife and kids who are in same position
It is painful but boys are my priority and I wont let it affect them
Then a timeline of dates and facts to make it clear that there was an 'overlap', which the ex maintains there wasn't (still makes me MAD every time I hear that)
Ends thanking her for her love and support and making it clear things cannot be the same between us, so all the best but keep an eye out for boys

As with all of these decisions lately, hey are based on what I feel I need to do for my boys and also for myself. I'd be disappointed if I didn't get this off my chest now. As mentioned, this isn't mass exposure, there are just a handful of people who deserve to know. All of 'her' friends are dead to me and NC - I don't care what they think - if they can't see what really happened, then more fool you.


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> He was found guilty of harassment for sending out an exposure email.
> 
> And under UK law, it's a crime full stop/period. We do not have the felony/misdemeanor distinction in the UK.


Yeah.... civilians can't do that..... that's the government's job.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks all, it's a tricky one. This will be the first meet with him so I see it as a one time opportunity to reinforce what really happened, so they have an opinion formed when they first meet him, before he turns on the sleazy cheater charm that seems to have got him so far in previous affairs.
> 
> Good warning Matt - I believe, that as this is a one to one private email correspondence, that is cannot be construed as harassment. Plus, the content is basically:
> 
> There are 2 sides to every story
> POSOM could / should have been a friend of the marriage but broke it and my kids home
> Boys are priority, please support and look out for them
> My aggravation over affair, ex lack of respect and he disregard for marriage / her boys
> Making it clear POSOM has wife and kids who are in same position
> It is painful but boys are my priority and I wont let it affect them
> Then a timeline of dates and facts to make it clear that there was an 'overlap', which the ex maintains there wasn't (still makes me MAD every time I hear that)
> Ends thanking her for her love and support and making it clear things cannot be the same between us, so all the best but keep an eye out for boys
> 
> As with all of these decisions lately, hey are based on what I feel I need to do for my boys and also for myself. I'd be disappointed if I didn't get this off my chest now. As mentioned, this isn't mass exposure, there are just a handful of people who deserve to know. All of 'her' friends are dead to me and NC - I don't care what they think - if they can't see what really happened, then more fool you.


Totally agree. You are not carpet bombing people with emails. You are looking out for your boys. I don't know exactly what SidSnot put in his emails etc. but even that decision was tenuous at best. I really don't think you will have a problem contacting your wife's family (who happen to be your and your boys' family too - closer link than he has at the moment).

As for family, while I agree that they will take the part of their daughter (your stbxw), they still need to know the truth when it comes to POSOM. The tone of your letter sounds perfect. When all this settles, they may not be as accepting of him and his kids! Give them the truth. Don't expect anything back other than to watch out for your boys around him and let him do the rest. Brits are pretty good at seeing through smarm and slime - and they don't come any smarmier or slimier than a bald, pseudo successful CTO! 

I am well connected in the IT industry and wish I knew who he was - I would do my own damage and he wouldn't even see it coming!


----------



## Chuck71

3rd person writing is my specialty, just saying......

Does their jobs have a policy against in-house romances?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Chuck71 said:


> 3rd person writing is my specialty, just saying......
> 
> Does their jobs have a policy against in-house romances?


Without a doubt, you bet your bottom dollar they do!!! Especially when he gives her a promotion in return for a fvck!!!


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Totally agree. You are not carpet bombing people with emails. You are looking out for your boys. I don't know exactly what SidSnot put in his emails etc. but even that decision was tenuous at best. I really don't think you will have a problem contacting your wife's family (who happen to be your and your boys' family too - closer link than he has at the moment).
> 
> As for family, while I agree that they will take the part of their daughter (your stbxw), they still need to know the truth when it comes to POSOM. The tone of your letter sounds perfect. When all this settles, they may not be as accepting of him and his kids! Give them the truth. Don't expect anything back other than to watch out for your boys around him and let him do the rest. Brits are pretty good at seeing through smarm and slime - and they don't come any smarmier or slimier than a bald, pseudo successful CTO!
> 
> I am well connected in the IT industry and wish I knew who he was - I would do my own damage and he wouldn't even see it coming!


On reflection, her mum has very little influence on her daughter, their relationship is dreadful. That said, she is good for straight talking so could come in useful.

Oooh, don't tempt me to tell you who he is!!! Perhaps I will once this is over. I'm sure he'll be a LinkedIn​ connection of yours... Which is interesting considering he is trying to find a new job just in case they get caught!


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> 3rd person writing is my specialty, just saying......
> 
> Does their jobs have a policy against in-house romances?


Oh yes they do, they are a huge global organisation and this is strictly against policy, the direct report relationship and the non disclosure! And I found a copy of the policy on the internet. It's referenced in my draft email to HR that is sitting ready to go should anyone not throw straight dice.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi all, as I sit in the sun, half way through our holiday, I've had plenty of time to reflect.

First off, it's quite amusing sitting watching all the couple's here at the resort. We came here before, as a complete family but not sure i really ever noticed or studied others. Everyone seems stressed, I'm relaxed and so are my boys. Well, kind of, my mother replaced the ex and she has slowly wound me up with her meddling and controlling. I know sons are meant to be loyal to their mothers but i have had to provide her with a few home truths. Not easy but look where putting up and shutting up got me in my marriage!

I'm half way through 'His needs, her needs' and i must say, it all makes sense and I'm glad to say, on reflection, i was pretty good at meeting her needs as a priority. It all changed when she went off sex (PND likely) and came to a head when she came out with the now infamous 'get a prostitute' line. That was the moment i started to give up on her needs. Slowly but surely, the love bank emptied, as did hers and POSOM came along and filled hers up at work. Literally.

I said in a very early post, i knew what i needed to do to save my marriage months ago and didn't do it. I'm at ease with that and know that i hold on to bad investments for too long. One to keep an eye on in future.

For my next IC session, I'll be asking to focus on the reoccurrence of me not being able to communicate / be candid to those close to me until it's too late / or I let resentment build into a blow out.

In lala land, ex is still in lurrrrve and OBS tells me POSOM has been touchy feely and showing incredible signs of remorse / zero signs of moving their divorce forward...Popcorn moments for her!!


----------



## Chuck71

No one is perfect.... there's a book out there that talks about a guy that was but... well we humans

killed this person. Reflections are how you learn.... HTF do you think I write all these books LOL.

Each person takes blame in the fail of a M.... I did mine, poor communication, sound similar?

If you do not own your POS tenancies, you will repeat them. You.... Melrose... are learning....

Can't say that for the XW. You were willing to save everything, and she bailed. That's on HER.

The XW will pay for those decision, mark it on the wall. But you don't have to be around to see it....

You.... just........ know. A Jedi feels sheet without even knowing. I knew the outcome of 

DC and I months before it arrived.... FSJ called me on it. As DeMello stated... enjoy it for what it is

today. I did.... and it collapsed just as I foresaw it. Yeah it hurt... but I had a BLAST! That's life...

Even if you know the outcome... sometimes the ride is worth it. You have two kids, you had your XW

probably at her best. I really like how you are going deeper in your thoughts....

DeMellos "Awareness" rules.... when you have time.....


----------



## Melrose8888

Always good to hear your thoughts chuck.

I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday, i did have ex at her best but even that was flawed.

Had a quick Google of DeMellos, looks like a good to time to start challenging my way of thinking.

Still get a little stuck on how I'm going to cope with POSOM being a step dad to my kids and also how ex could've easily given up 50% of her time with my son's. Yes, i get she is broken but how naïve do you have to be to fall for this guys lines, to prefer to be with him rather than see your 4 and 7 year old every day??!!


----------



## Evinrude58

Melrose,
OM is getting all touchy-feels and not moving forward with divorce.
Surely you know he's already tiring of your wife. I really don't think you're going to have to worry about this particular OM much longer. When he bails and your wife goes all psycho on him wanting him back and texting him constantly and sending him crazy **** in emails----- he's going to get ugly with her.
Go buy a case of Orville Redenbacher. You're going to need it.

Then? Well she will likely come squirming back to old melrose, leaving a slime trail behind her.

Serious question: When OM dumps her, she will likely try to get you back. If you give her an inch, she will love-bomb you. 
Are you going to take her back after all this?


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> Melrose,
> OM is getting all touchy-feels and not moving forward with divorce.
> Surely you know he's already tiring of your wife. I really don't think you're going to have to worry about this particular OM much longer. When he bails and your wife goes all psycho on him wanting him back and texting him constantly and sending him crazy **** in emails----- he's going to get ugly with her.
> Go buy a case of Orville Redenbacher. You're going to need it.
> 
> Then? Well she will likely come squirming back to old melrose, leaving a slime trail behind her.
> 
> Serious question: When OM dumps her, she will likely try to get you back. If you give her an inch, she will love-bomb you.
> Are you going to take her back after all this?


Thing is, OBS is using POSOM remorse (see text from him a few pages back) to leverage financial agreement on her new house (slight delay means completion next Friday). After that, she is telling him to GTFOOH and he will have no spare key to her and her kids new house. At that point, POSOM has nothing, his kids hate him, wife is already dating others, he has to continue with my STBXW. Plus he's **** scared she / someone is going to tell their work, so it's blackmail / who blinks first. What a delightful situation.

I won't be taking her back. Comms are only a on divorce (so nearly no need for that soon) and kids (too much but a necessity). She is far too stubborn to even try and get me back, even if it went wrong with baldy. After all, i wasn't showing her the constant affection and attention she needs, so she'll just find another man to hook on to instead. Saw her flirting with my neighbours husband on the last dropoff. Clearly keeping plan b options open now she knows I'm not that option.


----------



## Evinrude58

Your wife is a piece of work.

Honestly, I'd love a front row seat when OM's wife dumps him and you expose him at his job.

This rotten $&@&?&& went after a married woman and was going to divorce his family and try to take yours?
I hope you screw up his world completely and have the satisfaction of watching your cheating wife's world implode also.

And you should have no guilt at seeing the consequences of their own actions being them down. 

What a guy this OM is---- just leave his wife and kids for a woman who has zero loyalty as well. Geez, they really are the perfect couple. 
I wonder how many times they've used the "soulmates" thing??? Hell, they may be! They are quite balanced in crappiness.


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is a piece of work.
> 
> Honestly, I'd love a front row seat when OM's wife dumps him and you expose him at his job.
> 
> This rotten $&@&?&& went after a married woman and was going to divorce his family and try to take yours?
> I hope you screw up his world completely and have the satisfaction of watching your cheating wife's world implode also.
> 
> And you should have no guilt at seeing the consequences of their own actions being them down.
> 
> What a guy this OM is---- just leave his wife and kids for a woman who has zero loyalty as well. Geez, they really are the perfect couple.
> I wonder how many times they've used the "soulmates" thing??? Hell, they may be! They are quite balanced in crappiness.


I need to work on OBS, she isn't keen on work exposure but I'll get her there.

They honestly think they've done nothing wrong because both marriages were unhappy. Well, duh, yeah, esp of you are focusing time and energy on the other 'greener' grass.

The texts from quite early on said stuff like: it hurts to think how i might never have met you, if we are together until death it won't be long enough, I've never felt love like it, the innate peace you bring me is overwhelming, soul mates used too. I honestly think they are though. Problem is, his cheating nature will creep back in and then what...

Bit odd that he is willing to take on step dad of 4 & 7 year olds given he has 14 & 16 to kids himself. This might be a line strung to ensure he gets his balls wet regularly...


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I'll be interested to see how this plays out. My guess is that reconciliation on the OM's part is still a possibility despite what OBS is telling you. That would be a wonderful outcome to watch. I'm investing in popcorn futures.


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> I need to work on OBS, she isn't keen on work exposure but I'll get her there.
> 
> They honestly think they've done nothing wrong because both marriages were unhappy. Well, duh, yeah, esp of you are focusing time and energy on the other 'greener' grass.
> 
> The texts from quite early on said stuff like: it hurts to think how i might never have met you, if we are together until death it won't be long enough, I've never felt love like it, the innate peace you bring me is overwhelming, soul mates used too. I honestly think they are though. Problem is, his cheating nature will creep back in and then what...
> 
> Bit odd that he is willing to take on step dad of 4 & 7 year olds given he has 14 & 16 to kids himself. This might be a line strung to ensure he gets his balls wet regularly...


A term used here are Schmoopies.


https://youtu.be/5T3ltrX6uv0

Check this out mate, this is a fly on the wall of the convo type you've said between them.

Cheaters get what they deserve, you Sid and I are well down the road mate. Kids remain main focus, leave the chaos and moral bankruptcy to their owners and creators.

Hope you're having a good Easter bh and holiday.
I'm sitting outside the local in the sunshine drinking a real ale. All is good today 0


----------



## Evinrude58

Melrose8888 said:


> I need to work on OBS, she isn't keen on work exposure but I'll get her there.
> 
> They honestly think they've done nothing wrong because both marriages were unhappy. Well, duh, yeah, esp of you are focusing time and energy on the other 'greener' grass.
> 
> The texts from quite early on said stuff like: it hurts to think how i might never have met you, if we are together until death it won't be long enough, I've never felt love like it, the innate peace you bring me is overwhelming, soul mates used too. I honestly think they are though. Problem is, his cheating nature will creep back in and then what...
> 
> Bit odd that he is willing to take on step dad of 4 & 7 year olds given he has 14 & 16 to kids himself. This might be a line strung to ensure he gets his balls
> 
> Work exposure may not be good, actually. She may be able to screw you over if she has no job. OBS may be screwed if he loses his also.
> All this instant love bs is garbage Melrose. I'll bet my next paycheck their relationship doesn't last another 6 months. OM is already sensing he has f'd up. Your wife is crazy. He is just a rotten cheat. Love her? Soulmates? We will see. They both have low character. The same problems you had with her, he will seee when the honeymoon thing is over.
> 
> Bide your time. A storm is headed her way. She IS the black cloud.


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> A term used here are Schmoopies.
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/5T3ltrX6uv0
> 
> Check this out mate, this is a fly on the wall of the convo type you've said between them.
> 
> Cheaters get what they deserve, you Sid and I are well down the road mate. Kids remain main focus, leave the chaos and moral bankruptcy to their owners and creators.
> 
> Hope you're having a good Easter bh and holiday.
> I'm sitting outside the local in the sunshine drinking a real ale. All is good today 0


Haha! Love it!

Focus is fully on. UK father's for justice in full force!!

Love a good real ale, enjoy the well earned long weekend!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> I need to work on OBS, she isn't keen on work exposure but I'll get her there.
> 
> They honestly think they've done nothing wrong because both marriages were unhappy. Well, duh, yeah, esp of you are focusing time and energy on the other 'greener' grass.
> 
> The texts from quite early on said stuff like: it hurts to think how i might never have met you, if we are together until death it won't be long enough, I've never felt love like it, the innate peace you bring me is overwhelming, soul mates used too. I honestly think they are though. Problem is, his cheating nature will creep back in and then what...
> 
> Bit odd that he is willing to take on step dad of 4 & 7 year olds given he has 14 & 16 to kids himself. *This might be a line strung to ensure he gets his balls wet regularly*...


If he thinks that.... he is a top-tier state certified idiot. 

"If I M this new gal, I'll have sex like I did with my W years ago."

The TRUE head games do not actually start until..... you M.

This numbskull is putting the cart before the horse.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> I need to work on OBS, she isn't keen on work exposure but I'll get her there.
> 
> 
> She's looking out for herself and kids don't expect anything form her on this
> 
> They honestly think they've done nothing wrong because both marriages were unhappy. Well, duh, yeah, esp of you are focusing time and energy on the other 'greener' grass.
> 
> The texts from quite early on said stuff like: it hurts to think how i might never have met you, if we are together until death it won't be long enough, I've never felt love like it, the innate peace you bring me is overwhelming, soul mates used too. I honestly think they are though. Problem is, his cheating nature will creep back in and then what...
> 
> Bit odd that he is willing to take on step dad of 4 & 7 year olds given he has 14 & 16 to kids himself. This might be a line strung to ensure he gets his balls wet regularly...


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Always good to hear your thoughts chuck.
> 
> I was thinking the exact same thing yesterday, i did have ex at her best but even that was flawed.
> 
> Had a quick Google of DeMellos, looks like a good to time to start challenging my way of thinking.
> 
> Still get a little stuck on how I'm going to cope with POSOM being a step dad to my kids and also how ex could've easily given up 50% of her time with my son's. Yes, i get she is broken but how naïve do you have to be to fall for this guys lines, to prefer to be with him rather than see your 4 and 7 year old every day??!!


DeMello's Awareness is on Pdf. I would send a link but I am still on the temp computer.

When you understand the difference in #1s, #2s, and #3s.... a LOT of things will make sense.

Too many men tie themselves to the hot water heater and scream they can not break free.

The key is ALWAYS within reach. Check out FrustratedMan 's thread. 

Melrose.... this guy ain't gonna want to raise two more young kids. Trust me....

Sit back like we are saying and watch their "world of love" turn into a flaming ball 'o sheet.

A "dad" stays up half the night reminding his kid that the nightmare they had was not 

real..... you think he's gonna do that???? If you think so, I am 3rd in line to the throne of GB.

I KNOW you sometimes feel empty and lost.... you're not. You are washing away the unneeded 

and seeking better. Remember... I was where you were at one time.... 

My XW is on POF and... sent me a message. Kid you not.... and she knows I want 0% to do with 

her..... Desperation 101. Check out this..... but pay attention to after 5:30 of the vid.

It speaks volumes. That song taught me many things over the years....


----------



## Melrose8888

Tough day. Back from holiday where I spent 9 wonderful days and nights with my boys, amazing bonding time, great chat with 7yo at beach bar one night about girlfriends, the new living arrangements and the POSOM...classic, he is so emotionally intelligent for such a small boy. He said 'how about I spend 1 million days with you at boys house and then 1 day with mummy'. I played the straight bat and said 'it's important to spend time with your mother too'. And breathe...

Problem is, I'm back to work and the STBXW has them now for a week - drop off was heart-breaking, hugs, tears, kisses from them, so hard to leave them; I feel empty without them. All the while the POS is standing there in the doorway with a huge smug grin on her face as if to say 'look at me, I'm so happy'. (shame about her bingo wings growing each time I see her, her pot belly sticking out and being dressed like a tramp). And breathe...

Then the anger starts, how could she do this, reduce the time I see my sons by 50%, stop me seeing them grow up everyday. It's so unfair. Add to that the POSOM raising them in my absence and I can feel myself losing it.


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> Tough day. Back from holiday where I spent 9 wonderful days and nights with my boys, amazing bonding time, great chat with 7yo at beach bar one night about girlfriends, the new living arrangements and the POSOM...classic, he is so emotionally intelligent for such a small boy. He said 'how about I spend 1 million days with you at boys house and then 1 day with mummy'. I played the straight bat and said 'it's important to spend time with your mother too'. And breathe...
> 
> Problem is, I'm back to work and the STBXW has them now for a week - drop off was heart-breaking, hugs, tears, kisses from them, so hard to leave them; I feel empty without them. All the while the POS is standing there in the doorway with a huge smug grin on her face as if to say 'look at me, I'm so happy'. (shame about her bingo wings growing each time I see her, her pot belly sticking out and being dressed like a tramp). And breathe...
> 
> Then the anger starts, how could she do this, reduce the time I see my sons by 50%, stop me seeing them grow up everyday. It's so unfair. Add to that the POSOM raising them in my absence and I can feel myself losing it.


**** Tags himself in to the ring***** 
"""Slap"""

I always was a fan of the old WWF, back in the good old days.

Mate I was right at that point of handover last Sunday, I sucked it all in and drilled in to my munchkins how much I love and miss them.
At handover I didn't so much as look at STBX and it took me a tremendous amount of energy to keep things straight and not launch, but we don't do that, because thems the ego boosts the morally bankrupt "day walkers" feed from.
I know all about how you feel that week without them too, luckily I pulled a 50 hr week at work last week with a couple of slots at the gym and a few trips to the pub and running the dogs. Keeping busy mate, it's not the cure but it sure does soothe the burn a bit.

Yep, all the stuff about how someone could do this to them kids reminds me of Pinocchio, where we have Jiminy Cricket I.E. a firmly present conscience, its prevalent that POS WW's are empty in that zone, something in their internal wiring isn't right. The question remains and may indeed never be answered about how they sleep so sound knowing what they've done to us and our kids. I've thought this through a few times and all I can surmise is NPD or SPD in one degree or another, no remorse, no empathy, no ability for self introspection. Effectively lying to themselves. 

Whilst it's crappy indeed that POS will be involved being the best dad, the most honest man and a leader with firm boundaries is the short term plan, keep steaming onwards and look at doing things you enjoy doing and things your kids enjoy too. I never realised how much fun a carpet picnic could be on a rainy day until I was suggested it the other week, I asked the kids what their fave foods were, got them to help me make it, most of it was "build your own", we made a den with pillows and cushions on the floor and had a right laugh replicating camping with food LOL.

Eventually mate you will find someone, that's the long game, when you are ready, 
They will love you for you and they too will share your children's life, who knows? they may have kids too and you too may be a part of their kids life as well, blending families is modern day stuff and whilst it can be a challenge, if done right it can be rewarding.

Good people don't do what our crappy ex partners did to people, good people don't do what their pos did to people, so everyone gets what they deserve in the end.

Keep going mate, I promise you it will get easier for us, it already is in some respects I'm sure you'll agree. 
We will always have a challenge of co parenting, but there's a whole lot of life to be living and a lot of fun times ahead for you and your kids.

We, my friend are all on this journey together.


"""Slap"""
Tags Out again.....

Keep going !!!!


----------



## manfromlamancha

Hang in there Melrose. He is not a catch and from what I have seen (character wise) neither is your stbxw. You will always be your sons' Daddy and they will always look up to you. He is a consistent screw up and if he screwed up his first marriage and relationship with kids, he will surely screw this one up.

And as per my PM there will be a karma bus heading their way so don't worry. In the meantime you are younger (heck you are younger than your wife), you are actually better looking than both of them and she has definitely traded down (all because of his smooth talking and abuse of his position). She will eventually see him for the weak person he is and if she does not, then you are well rid of her anyway. Just continue to be a great dad to your boys and they will be fine.

Find things to do with them that they like, you like, the POSOM doesn't like or cannot do and you will speed up the process e.g. if they like football, and you like football, and the POSOM cannot play football - then drive that home. Make football central to their life. The same for other interests what ever they may be.


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> **** Tags himself in to the ring*****
> """Slap"""
> 
> I always was a fan of the old WWF, back in the good old days.
> 
> Mate I was right at that point of handover last Sunday, I sucked it all in and drilled in to my munchkins how much I love and miss them.
> At handover I didn't so much as look at STBX and it took me a tremendous amount of energy to keep things straight and not launch, but we don't do that, because thems the ego boosts the morally bankrupt "day walkers" feed from.
> I know all about how you feel that week without them too, luckily I pulled a 50 hr week at work last week with a couple of slots at the gym and a few trips to the pub and running the dogs. Keeping busy mate, it's not the cure but it sure does soothe the burn a bit.
> 
> Yep, all the stuff about how someone could do this to them kids reminds me of Pinocchio, where we have Jiminy Cricket I.E. a firmly present conscience, its prevalent that POS WW's are empty in that zone, something in their internal wiring isn't right. The question remains and may indeed never be answered about how they sleep so sound knowing what they've done to us and our kids. I've thought this through a few times and all I can surmise is NPD or SPD in one degree or another, no remorse, no empathy, no ability for self introspection. Effectively lying to themselves.
> 
> Whilst it's crappy indeed that POS will be involved being the best dad, the most honest man and a leader with firm boundaries is the short term plan, keep steaming onwards and look at doing things you enjoy doing and things your kids enjoy too. I never realised how much fun a carpet picnic could be on a rainy day until I was suggested it the other week, I asked the kids what their fave foods were, got them to help me make it, most of it was "build your own", we made a den with pillows and cushions on the floor and had a right laugh replicating camping with food LOL.
> 
> Eventually mate you will find someone, that's the long game, when you are ready,
> They will love you for you and they too will share your children's life, who knows? they may have kids too and you too may be a part of their kids life as well, blending families is modern day stuff and whilst it can be a challenge, if done right it can be rewarding.
> 
> Good people don't do what our crappy ex partners did to people, good people don't do what their pos did to people, so everyone gets what they deserve in the end.
> 
> Keep going mate, I promise you it will get easier for us, it already is in some respects I'm sure you'll agree.
> We will always have a challenge of co parenting, but there's a whole lot of life to be living and a lot of fun times ahead for you and your kids.
> 
> We, my friend are all on this journey together.
> 
> 
> """Slap"""
> Tags Out again.....
> 
> Keep going !!!!


The Ultimate Warrior was my fav - probably the face paint...

I think I am being harsh on myself, I do keep myself really busy with work, footy, friends, gym, pub, mate dates etc. but my mind does go into full speed pondering mode at any opportunity for silence (or during music / lyric triggers).

I noticed that even any book I read, self help, fact or fiction, I end up thinking about how the ex fits the situation I've just read?!?

My Mum pissed me off this week by saying that she felt I was too strict with the boys. I am comfortable that I give them space to grow and be themselves but repeated ignoring of requests (we have a no 3rd time of asking rule) do require a stiff reminder of their part in this new household.

How great - after being let down by the British weather on a picnic promise a few weeks ago, I actually got the picnic rug etc, all out and did the very same in the lounge. Simple things are so fun at this young age and we must remind ourselves of that.

I agree, lots to look forward to once the anger subsides - I actually view me as 'only' being 38 now - a few months ago I felt I had no chance but pretty sure once I make myself obviously available, I can make sure my picker is fired up to be better this time.

Out of interest Danny, does your ex have any issues with your new gf meeting your kids, or do you think, because she doesn't fully know your world now, that it hasn't dawned on her? I presume the POSOM hasn't met your daughters?!


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Hang in there Melrose. He is not a catch and from what I have seen (character wise) neither is your stbxw. You will always be your sons' Daddy and they will always look up to you. He is a consistent screw up and if he screwed up his first marriage and relationship with kids, he will surely screw this one up.
> 
> And as per my PM there will be a karma bus heading their way so don't worry. In the meantime you are younger (heck you are younger than your wife), you are actually better looking than both of them and she has definitely traded down (all because of his smooth talking and abuse of his position). She will eventually see him for the weak person he is and if she does not, then you are well rid of her anyway. Just continue to be a great dad to your boys and they will be fine.
> 
> Find things to do with them that they like, you like, the POSOM doesn't like or cannot do and you will speed up the process e.g. if they like football, and you like football, and the POSOM cannot play football - then drive that home. Make football central to their life. The same for other interests what ever they may be.


Thanks lamancha. This is his second failed marriage (he left a third fiancé at the alter) and has had multiple affairs, so yeah, pretty sure eventually, this will go the same way. Hence the desperation to keep him away from my boys...

Hope that bus is a double decker tour bus with extra equipment on board!!

Great suggestion on finding opposite interests to him. Boys are already into football, karate and golf. I'm meeting the OMW for lunch again on Sunday actually, so will find out if (from what I know from snooping a while back) all POSOM likes is Basketball, drinking too much wine and stealing other man's wives...!!


----------



## MovingForward

Melrose8888 said:


> Tough day. Back from holiday where I spent 9 wonderful days and nights with my boys, amazing bonding time, great chat with 7yo at beach bar one night about girlfriends, the new living arrangements and the POSOM...classic, he is so emotionally intelligent for such a small boy. He said 'how about I spend 1 million days with you at boys house and then 1 day with mummy'. I played the straight bat and said 'it's important to spend time with your mother too'. And breathe...
> 
> Problem is, I'm back to work and the STBXW has them now for a week - drop off was heart-breaking, hugs, tears, kisses from them, so hard to leave them; I feel empty without them. All the while the POS is standing there in the doorway with a huge smug grin on her face as if to say 'look at me, I'm so happy'. (shame about her bingo wings growing each time I see her, her pot belly sticking out and being dressed like a tramp). And breathe...
> 
> Then the anger starts, how could she do this, r*educe the time I see my sons by 50%, stop me seeing them grow up everyday. It's so unfair. Add to that the POSOM raising them in my absence and I can feel myself losing it.*




Sorry your going through this, I hope it gets better for you. I have not had to deal with any of this yet but it will be coming and I am not looking forward to it.:frown2:

Take care and keep venting/updating us.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose...... I do not have kids so I'm not going to sit here and say I know how you feel. What I will tell you

is the same thing I told Danny and Collin. You will see your kids more than you think.

Your WW will have to devote time to men, to snag and M one. Just view Danny's thread.

It's ALL a fantasy in their minds. When their bubble bursts.... it all falls down.

Lil story.... Was 1994, was maybe 930pm, I stopped by the country store to gas up and grab a 12pack.

I rewarded myself with a 12pack every Thursday night because I had no classes on Friday.

I'm pumping gas, 1st love and her "Jed Clampet / pork rind" H pulled beside me. I smiled,

resumed what I was doing. "Hey... you're alone and I ended up with her.... haha ha ha."

I smiled.... "Yeah... you won. At least you think so." He did a doughnut and drove off.

Truth is... I looked at her and saw the sadness in her eyes but she M him, had kids with him,

so she made her bed. Plus.... 1st love had hounded me wanting to get together and "give her some"

Yeah..... he won.... but what did he win?


----------



## Melrose8888

MovingForward said:


> [/B]
> 
> Sorry your going through this, I hope it gets better for you. I have not had to deal with any of this yet but it will be coming and I am not looking forward to it.:frown2:
> 
> Take care and keep venting/updating us.


You too, MF - take special care of yourself at this time.

We cannot control the POSOM meets but at least use all the power you can in mediation to stipulate what you think you can best agree on. I was too soft in this area, and am probably lucky that I can use exposure to their work as a bargaining tool to discuss after divorce, else he would already be living with the ex and my kids. Wish I had written in no overnight for a year but hey.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Melrose...... I do not have kids so I'm not going to sit here and say I know how you feel. What I will tell you
> 
> is the same thing I told Danny and Collin. You will see your kids more than you think.
> 
> Your WW will have to devote time to men, to snag and M one. Just view Danny's thread.
> 
> It's ALL a fantasy in their minds. When their bubble bursts.... it all falls down.
> 
> Lil story.... Was 1994, was maybe 930pm, I stopped by the country store to gas up and grab a 12pack.
> 
> I rewarded myself with a 12pack every Thursday night because I had no classes on Friday.
> 
> I'm pumping gas, 1st love and her "Jed Clampet / pork rind" H pulled beside me. I smiled,
> 
> resumed what I was doing. "Hey... you're alone and I ended up with her.... haha ha ha."
> 
> I smiled.... "Yeah... you won. At least you think so." He did a doughnut and drove off.
> 
> Truth is... I looked at her and saw the sadness in her eyes but she M him, had kids with him,
> 
> so she made her bed. Plus.... 1st love had hounded me wanting to get together and "give her some"
> 
> Yeah..... he won.... but what did he win?


Love your stories Chuck, always make me smile!

The kids thing is a bummer, would be great if I never saw her again. I am actually at the stage that if she asks about the POSOM meeting them / any disruption to them settling into their split family life, I am telling her: Off you go then, into the sunset with POSOM and I will look after the kids 100%, no problem, if you can't live without the POSOM for 7 days max and cannot devote time to your 2 young son's then go off and have your fun without them being a burden.


----------



## MovingForward

Melrose8888 said:


> You too, MF - take special care of yourself at this time.
> 
> We cannot control the POSOM meets but at least use all the power you can in mediation to stipulate what you think you can best agree on. I was too soft in this area, and am probably lucky that I can use exposure to their work as a bargaining tool to discuss after divorce, else he would already be living with the ex and my kids. Wish I had written in no overnight for a year but hey.


Overnights for 6 months was as good as I could get, I want to push for 6 months on meeting the children but its a battle she is not wanting to negotiate on at this time and enforcement is very hard anyway so not sure worth the hassle since there are so many other factors that could go far worse if I am not careful, it sure does suck to be the one in mediation on the giving side and not the receiving end of much.

There has still not been any evidence or admittance of another man but I am sure he is out there.


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> The Ultimate Warrior was my fav - probably the face paint...
> 
> Out of interest Danny, does your ex have any issues with your new gf meeting your kids, or do you think, because she doesn't fully know your world now, that it hasn't dawned on her? I presume the POSOM hasn't met your daughters?!


Can't help but do a nature boy whooooooo!!! Now and again.
Same with a Hacksaw jim duggan Hoooo!

Issues? 
It's got F all to do with her mate.
POS hasn't been round my kids nope, I'm very certain of that.
Once STBX got wind of my NEW bird she escalated harassment of my family and friends. Made up lies that my cuz daughter told my 6 yo she's getting a new Mummy. 

That was a low blow and my cuz savaged her as her daughter doesn't know I've got a gf. A cheap shot to try and put the cat among the pigeons. 

I see it that she never come clean about pos so what's good for said goose. I shut down 4 people feeding back info to her immediately, it's driving her loopy, GF is being stalked by people from stbx side on social media, she doesn't give two fecks. And had said she is happy to meet STBX if/when necessary.

I'll intro GF to my girls once JC arrangement has been ratified by magistrate and my rights as pappie are locked in. 

Yep, she never considered I'd move on, file 2 weeks after separation & d day and make good on my promise that id find Someone better than her, someone with honour, character, integrity. Cheaters never look at the blast of reality that eventually engulfs them.

It's a massive bonus that GF has two girls too and they share all the same interests as mine. Better still that she's a TA for disabled kids and has an enhanced crb/dbs like I do. She's a divorcee from a POS also and is super understanding about the stages here and how kids come first. Her bond with her girls mirrors my own with mine and we are of course taking things slowly slowly, but everything this far feels good. 

Oh Karma how I welcome thee.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Danny, patience. Slow and steady you will arrive at your desired destination. Keep your "poker face" around her. Do not let her get under your skin. You are doing fine. All I can say is impressive.


----------



## Chuck71

Laugh or cry................... CHOOSE LAUGH


----------



## sidney2718

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks lamancha. This is his second failed marriage (he left a third fiancé at the alter) and has had multiple affairs, so yeah, pretty sure eventually, this will go the same way. Hence the desperation to keep him away from my boys...
> 
> Hope that bus is a double decker tour bus with extra equipment on board!!
> 
> Great suggestion on finding opposite interests to him. Boys are already into football, karate and golf. I'm meeting the OMW for lunch again on Sunday actually, so will find out if (from what I know from snooping a while back) all POSOM likes is Basketball, drinking too much wine and stealing other man's wives...!!


Don't be artificial about this. Your kids will detect you faking it if you are. Let nature take its course. You are not in a competition. You are their father and always will be.


----------



## Marc878

MovingForward said:


> Overnights for 6 months was as good as I could get, I want to push for 6 months on meeting the children but its a battle she is not wanting to negotiate on at this time and enforcement is very hard anyway so not sure worth the hassle since
> there are so many other factors that could go far worse if I am not careful, it sure does suck to be the one in mediation on the giving side and not the receiving end of much.
> 
> There has still not been any evidence or admittance of another man but I am sure he is out there.



Yep, you can't control this.* It does say there is another man in the mix.* If you're smart you'll do a hard 180 and go your own way. Never look back.


----------



## Melrose8888

Anyone got some 2x4 handy?

My birthday today and I am surprised how it has impacted me. Boys are with STBXW this week, I am having dinner with them later but I am upset that they weren’t there this morning when I woke up, to give me hugs, open cards etc. In fact, not had / heard anything from them.

Can me building a new life, without the ex, possibly compensate that loss of time with my kids? I highly doubt it.

It’s these feelings that lead me to wondering about R. I read on another thread here, about R, that the husband knew this was completely out of character of his wife and that he knew that, if he stopped the 180 and engaged in conversation with her, that she would engage. I believe they successfully R’d. I have a similar feeling right now, 180 / NC has been 99% hard line, she is stubborn / won’t show her true feelings to me (I’m convinced she is doing the 180 too) so if I broke down the ice between us, I might just get to see what she is really thinking. If that is ‘I am in love with POSOM, soul mate, unicorns’ then great, I’ve heard it from her first hand.

I also still have that need to tell her the truth about the POSOM too – it’s not KISA, it’s stopping this guy being in the boy’s life for a few months, then f-ing off when he finds his next co-worker to groom. I’d regret it if I didn’t tell her the facts, even if she is likely to dismiss them as me being bitter / revenge seeking, at least she can be wary of his bull.

I’m glad days like this are fewer and further between than they used to be but my brain races when they arrive and it’s difficult to slow it down.


----------



## Evinrude58

My God Melrose!
Yeah, bad days happen, but the unicorns and rainbows are a way of life for your wife. She will smell blood in the water and go straight for your nuts. Don't engage her, don't show her vulnerability, don't think there is any good left in annakin skywalkee/-- there isn't! She's DArth Vader.......

The person you once knew is gone and she will never come back. Don't, please don't. It will blow up in your face and leave you feeling like ****. She is GONE.

Let her go, stop hoping. Move forward.


----------



## Chuck71

1-Reading assignment.... it's long http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html

2-I have no F'ing words


----------



## Marc878

You can't fix her which is what you're trying to do. If you chase they move farther away.

You are holding onto that small sliver of hope which will show her your desperation.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> Anyone got some 2x4 handy?
> 
> My birthday today and I am surprised how it has impacted me. Boys are with STBXW this week, I am having dinner with them later but I am upset that they weren’t there this morning when I woke up, to give me hugs, open cards etc. In fact, not had / heard anything from them.
> 
> Can me building a new life, without the ex, possibly compensate that loss of time with my kids? I highly doubt it.
> 
> It’s these feelings that lead me to wondering about R. I read on another thread here, about R, that the husband knew this was completely out of character of his wife and that he knew that, if he stopped the 180 and engaged in conversation with her, that she would engage. I believe they successfully R’d. I have a similar feeling right now, 180 / NC has been 99% hard line, she is stubborn / won’t show her true feelings to me (I’m convinced she is doing the 180 too) so if I broke down the ice between us, I might just get to see what she is really thinking. If that is ‘I am in love with POSOM, soul mate, unicorns’ then great, I’ve heard it from her first hand.
> 
> I also still have that need to tell her the truth about the POSOM too – it’s not KISA, it’s stopping this guy being in the boy’s life for a few months, then f-ing off when he finds his next co-worker to groom. I’d regret it if I didn’t tell her the facts, even if she is likely to dismiss them as me being bitter / revenge seeking, at least she can be wary of his bull.
> 
> I’m glad days like this are fewer and further between than they used to be but my brain races when they arrive and it’s difficult to slow it down.


Stop.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Melrose8888 said:


> Anyone got some 2x4 handy?
> 
> My birthday today and I am surprised how it has impacted me. Boys are with STBXW this week, I am having dinner with them later but I am upset that they weren’t there this morning when I woke up, to give me hugs, open cards etc. In fact, not had / heard anything from them.
> 
> Can me building a new life, without the ex, possibly compensate that loss of time with my kids? I highly doubt it.
> 
> It’s these feelings that lead me to wondering about R. I read on another thread here, about R, that the husband knew this was completely out of character of his wife and that he knew that, if he stopped the 180 and engaged in conversation with her, that she would engage. I believe they successfully R’d. I have a similar feeling right now, 180 / NC has been 99% hard line, she is stubborn / won’t show her true feelings to me (I’m convinced she is doing the 180 too) so if I broke down the ice between us, I might just get to see what she is really thinking. If that is ‘I am in love with POSOM, soul mate, unicorns’ then great, I’ve heard it from her first hand.
> 
> I also still have that need to tell her the truth about the POSOM too – it’s not KISA, it’s stopping this guy being in the boy’s life for a few months, then f-ing off when he finds his next co-worker to groom. I’d regret it if I didn’t tell her the facts, even if she is likely to dismiss them as me being bitter / revenge seeking, at least she can be wary of his bull.
> 
> I’m glad days like this are fewer and further between than they used to be but my brain races when they arrive and it’s difficult to slow it down.


I think you should take your lead from @honcho. If he can reconcile with his wife, so can you.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Hey Melrose happy Birthday...


----------



## Thor

I had a few days like that, too, thinking if I just opened the door and was nice to her, she'd break down and be the girl I married. Uh, nope.

Your wife is showing you in no uncertain terms who she really is and what she really thinks. She is a cheater. She did that on her own before you even knew about it. Then she has chosen posom after you found out the affair.

You aren't where you are because you haven't given her a chance! You're where you're at because of all the many things she has chosen to do and continues to do. You can't Nice her back. She isn't waiting for you to blink first, and if she were it would be so she could have the dominant position in the relationship. But she isn't waiting for you to blink.

Stay the course. There is much less misery and a lot more happiness if you do.


----------



## Danny4133

Happy Birthday Our Melrose.
Mate get your behind to spearmint rhino or stringfellows. 

All that you are feeling especially today is natrul. It's human to mourn and wish diffrent. But it's also dangerous too. I'd bet most if not all BS have considered the roads you're looking down on their journey. I have.

But only for fleeting moments, for just like a hypnosis state it's 'click and your back in the room.
Let's consider if you did what you're suggesting and perhaps it worked.

What has she learnt, zero consequences that's for sure. Shes learnt she can play you like a ******* can strum a banjo. You'd be encased by a praying mantis. In all good conscience I can let you do that, neither for you but especially them boys.

I daren't think of the feck over you'd be set up for in the future. I gautentee you'd look at the guy in the mirror one day and be ashamed of yourself. It's inadvertently saying "yes abuse me, it's fine it's what I'm worth" that's even before how much of a battering your rep would get from friends and family.

This is why there is no time limit to healing, it's fluid, some days forward and others backwards. It's the same for me also but less so now. I only need to recount the lies, the being ripped off, her attitude in the months after D day before she was served then "click" I'm back in the room.

You too need to recount all the abuse, lies, stuff she's done, said, attitude, how she's acting, no remorse no empathy no character. And you will click I'm sure.


----------



## honcho

Melrose8888 said:


> Anyone got some 2x4 handy?
> 
> My birthday today and I am surprised how it has impacted me. Boys are with STBXW this week, I am having dinner with them later but I am upset that they weren’t there this morning when I woke up, to give me hugs, open cards etc. In fact, not had / heard anything from them.
> 
> Can me building a new life, without the ex, possibly compensate that loss of time with my kids? I highly doubt it.
> 
> It’s these feelings that lead me to wondering about R. I read on another thread here, about R, that the husband knew this was completely out of character of his wife and that he knew that, if he stopped the 180 and engaged in conversation with her, that she would engage. I believe they successfully R’d. I have a similar feeling right now, 180 / NC has been 99% hard line, she is stubborn / won’t show her true feelings to me (I’m convinced she is doing the 180 too) so if I broke down the ice between us, I might just get to see what she is really thinking. If that is ‘I am in love with POSOM, soul mate, unicorns’ then great, I’ve heard it from her first hand.
> 
> I also still have that need to tell her the truth about the POSOM too – it’s not KISA, it’s stopping this guy being in the boy’s life for a few months, then f-ing off when he finds his next co-worker to groom. I’d regret it if I didn’t tell her the facts, even if she is likely to dismiss them as me being bitter / revenge seeking, at least she can be wary of his bull.
> 
> I’m glad days like this are fewer and further between than they used to be but my brain races when they arrive and it’s difficult to slow it down.


She already knows the facts about her new Mr perfect and she has already convinced herself that he has changed. Their relationship is different and special, I'm such a catch he would never cheat on me etc etc. It's all just part of the fantasy script they write for themselves and your wasting your breath trying to tell her any different or warn her about him. All she will hear is playing the pick me game, not the facts. 

Don't try and "break the ice" with her either, she is showing her true feelings, your just not accepting them. Again anything you say all she will think is you playing the pick me game and she will also know that she can just walk right back into your life whenever she feels like it. It'll just blow up in your face, not help in any way shape or form.


----------



## wmn1

honcho said:


> She already knows the facts about her new Mr perfect and she has already convinced herself that he has changed. Their relationship is different and special, I'm such a catch he would never cheat on me etc etc. It's all just part of the fantasy script they write for themselves and your wasting your breath trying to tell her any different or warn her about him. All she will hear is playing the pick me game, not the facts.
> 
> Don't try and "break the ice" with her either, she is showing her true feelings, your just not accepting them. Again anything you say all she will think is you playing the pick me game and she will also know that she can just walk right back into your life whenever she feels like it. It'll just blow up in your face, not help in any way shape or form.


Melrose,

How can we help you if you won't help yourself ? 

Why are you capitulating to her after what she has done to you ?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Happy birthday Melrose! Take some time for yourself today. You deserve and need it.


I hear what you say about being able to speak to her. Right now she is being manipulated by a master [email protected] I deep down don't think that she really sees him as her soulmate - just someone who wooed her through material stuff (which says a lot about her too).

Melrose you need to come to the conclusion that she is not who you thought she was and that you are lucky to have her out of your life. Yes there is some collateral damage but the end result is still better than spending a lot more time with her and then finding out what she is really like. Look at the bright side of what happened.

Take care of yourself and go and find yourself some good ales and good mates to spend time with.


----------



## Melrose8888

Appreciate all the input. I feel like I'm letting down TAM supporters when i have thoughts like these. I know how sensible your advice is.

Had lovely dinner with boys, then dropped them back to ex (who incidently was dressed like a tramp)... Didn't engage beyond updating her on boys days. Then she pulls out 3 presents and a card from the boys... 😕

So I'm sitting here with a very expensive whisky (King George V), hitting bumble and tinder (both on fire!!) but still wondering what if. I know the evidence points to a broken person but this is so out of character, i just don't think this is the real her. Yes, we were both crap at meeting each others needs in the past years but she never showed any sign of this. Insecurity yes but cheating? No. I truly believe this is a MLC / pre-menopause situation. If i didn't investigate, I'd feel regret. That said, i do realise that i can carry on as i am and if she does snap out of it, i can choose to consider her at that point.

Perhaps it is just birthday blues. I'll sleep on it...Tomorrow is a new day.


----------



## Evinrude58

Melrose,

I have been through what you're going through. Yes, you're having a bad day. You are going to continue to have bad days until you truly accept she is gone. What did it for me is the actual divorce finalization. I accepted it totally at that point (she already had a bf) and didn't look back.
When you accept things totally, there will be few bad days.

Here is the truth: What you're feeling now, you won't feel a year from now. You will be able to look at her from a different perspective (seeing the real her) and all her faults. You still love her now, and therefore can't help but see her through love goggles.

Logically, she is a disloyal, untrustworthy, lying adulteress that turned her back on you and gave herself to another man. You are seeing her now as a poor victim of a MLC and husband who didn't show her enough attention that she had no choice but to look elsewhere for affection, attention, and sex.  Why? Because you want this to be all your fault and subconsciously believe if you fix your "problems" that she will want to come back to the marriage since she "loves" you. I assure you, she does NOT love you anymore, and she WILL NEVER love you again. T hat's how it works. Someone here said they not only flip the switch, but tear the switch out of the wall and jerk out all the wiring. I think that's very true. Even when this guy disappears, it's unlikely she will want you back. it's possible, but even if she does, she will leave again.

I urge you to listen to reason and not emotion. She shows ZERO signs of still loving you. 
Even if she did have some feelings for you, there is still the problem of her being an absolute cheater.
When you were a young man and still looking, would you ask out a woman that you knew if she dated you, she would be capable of cheating on you? Well your wife is capable and involved with another man NOW. Why should you want her back? Other than you love her because she is your wife and it's hardwired in your mind to love her. 

I can also tell you from experience that we are correct in telling you that if you approach her, she will detect the weakness and be repulsed, and greatly hurt you YET AGAIN. NO good will come of it, unless you just like having yourself robbed of your dignity (or giving it away to be stomped on).

Don't. Just Don't.


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> Melrose,
> 
> I have been through what you're going through. Yes, you're having a bad day. You are going to continue to have bad days until you truly accept she is gone. What did it for me is the actual divorce finalization. I accepted it totally at that point (she already had a bf) and didn't look back.
> When you accept things totally, there will be few bad days.
> 
> Here is the truth: What you're feeling now, you won't feel a year from now. You will be able to look at her from a different perspective (seeing the real her) and all her faults. You still love her now, and therefore can't help but see her through love goggles.
> 
> Logically, she is a disloyal, untrustworthy, lying adulteress that turned her back on you and gave herself to another man. You are seeing her now as a poor victim of a MLC and husband who didn't show her enough attention that she had no choice but to look elsewhere for affection, attention, and sex. Why? Because you want this to be all your fault and subconsciously believe if you fix your "problems" that she will want to come back to the marriage since she "loves" you. I assure you, she does NOT love you anymore, and she WILL NEVER love you again. T hat's how it works. Someone here said they not only flip the switch, but tear the switch out of the wall and jerk out all the wiring. I think that's very true. Even when this guy disappears, it's unlikely she will want you back. it's possible, but even if she does, she will leave again.
> 
> I urge you to listen to reason and not emotion. She shows ZERO signs of still loving you.
> Even if she did have some feelings for you, there is still the problem of her being an absolute cheater.
> When you were a young man and still looking, would you ask out a woman that you knew if she dated you, she would be capable of cheating on you? Well your wife is capable and involved with another man NOW. Why should you want her back? Other than you love her because she is your wife and it's hardwired in your mind to love her.
> 
> I can also tell you from experience that we are correct in telling you that if you approach her, she will detect the weakness and be repulsed, and greatly hurt you YET AGAIN. NO good will come of it, unless you just like having yourself robbed of your dignity (or giving it away to be stomped on).
> 
> Don't. Just Don't.


I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

I agree on her not loving me. Women cannot love two men at once.

Divorce is very close BUT it's the only weapon i have against POSOM meeting my boys, so I'm in no rush.

Thing is i do see and hear signs, she searches for me on FB everyday, she has recently started to tell friends that I'm 'a good man but we didn't make each other happy', she makes excuses to message me, in fact, she texted me today​ to wish me happy birthday and bought gifts (from boys). Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe i am better off not getting sucked back in.

It would be for the kids if did anything. That might not be a good enough reason.


----------



## manfromlamancha

You are not upsetting or letting down anyone - the way you are feeling is natural. This is the mother of your kids and up until recently, your wife and partner in life - so it is understandable.

And you may be right - this might be pre-menopausal or whatever - but it takes a lot to cross the line she crossed! Because I know who the POSOM is, I am pretty certain that she does not know who he really is or more importantly, what he really is. He was her boss, in a position of power, with the gift of the gab to put it mildly (a supreme bull$h!tter) and has used his position to lure women many many times (his history of cheating). He worked your wife over and when she was at her most vulnerable, he promoted her to a senior position making her beholden to him. So she did face a real tough test and succumbed to it. What that makes her I am not entirely sure. However, I am pretty sure that she is looking to find the good in him (hence the [email protected] about him having a lot to offer your boys - she is trying to convince herself more than you). She will probably immerse herself in her new job to not have to deal with the reality of what she has done or become. The novelty of the affair is probably wearing off fast now and reality will hit her full force pretty soon. 

You say she is too proud to accept that she was wrong but I say, wait and in time it will come. The question is whether you will still want her back at that time. You should have got her out of your system by then and the chances are you will not want her back at all. As others are saying, time will heal this. Its just that it could take a couple of years to be completely over this. One step at a time though.

By the way that is expensive whiskey you have been given - was that from her ?


----------



## bandit.45

It takes time Melrose. Time.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> I really appreciate you sharing your experience.
> 
> I agree on her not loving me. Women cannot love two men at once.
> 
> Divorce is very close BUT it's the only weapon i have against POSOM meeting my boys, so I'm in no rush.
> 
> Thing is i do see and hear signs, she searches for me on FB everyday, she has recently started to tell friends that I'm 'a good man but we didn't make each other happy', she makes excuses to message me, in fact, she texted me today​ to wish me happy birthday and bought gifts (from boys). Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe i am better off not getting sucked back in.
> 
> It would be for the kids if did anything. That might not be a good enough reason.


I got news for you pal if you chase they move farther away. *Always!!!* Your only chance is if she comes to you. She has told you and shown you who she is but you still refuse to believe it. Amazing at how many run down this dead end trail.

Your making excuses for her doesn't change a thing.

You'd better wake the hell up


----------



## honcho

Melrose8888 said:


> I really appreciate you sharing your experience.
> 
> I agree on her not loving me. Women cannot love two men at once.
> 
> Divorce is very close BUT it's the only weapon i have against POSOM meeting my boys, so I'm in no rush.
> 
> Thing is i do see and hear signs, she searches for me on FB everyday, she has recently started to tell friends that I'm 'a good man but we didn't make each other happy', she makes excuses to message me, in fact, she texted me today​ to wish me happy birthday and bought gifts (from boys). Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe i am better off not getting sucked back in.
> 
> It would be for the kids if did anything. That might not be a good enough reason.


Your better off pushing for the divorce, the more real you make this and the closer she gets to becoming a free and available woman the faster Mr perfect will dump her. You better off not getting sucked back in. Your still viewing your stbx as some innocent lamb being led to slaughter, she isnt. She's a grown woman who made this decision. 

I spent a good 6 months excusing her behavior under the midlife crisis/menopause angle in my situation, you will in time realize it's just an excuse for bad behavior. 

Women in very general terms don't turn love back onto to someone once the have turned it off. Your stbx has turned it off. Your the safe choice, the fall back position and that's why she is still checking up on you. Your an option for her for security. She is doing just enough to keep you hanging around and your trying to read between the lines feeding hope. She is doing nothing to try and win you back. 

Your having a bad day, these happen at birthdays, Christmas and holidays. It will pass and it does get better


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> You are not upsetting or letting down anyone - the way you are feeling is natural. This is the mother of your kids and up until recently, your wife and partner in life - so it is understandable.
> 
> And you may be right - this might be pre-menopausal or whatever - but it takes a lot to cross the line she crossed! Because I know who the POSOM is, I am pretty certain that she does not know who he really is or more importantly, what he really is. He was her boss, in a position of power, with the gift of the gab to put it mildly (a supreme bull$h!tter) and has used his position to lure women many many times (his history of cheating). He worked your wife over and when she was at her most vulnerable, he promoted her to a senior position making her beholden to him. So she did face a real tough test and succumbed to it. What that makes her I am not entirely sure. However, I am pretty sure that she is looking to find the good in him (hence the [email protected] about him having a lot to offer your boys - she is trying to convince herself more than you). She will probably immerse herself in her new job to not have to deal with the reality of what she has done or become. The novelty of the affair is probably wearing off fast now and reality will hit her full force pretty soon.
> 
> You say she is too proud to accept that she was wrong but I say, wait and in time it will come. The question is whether you will still want her back at that time. You should have got her out of your system by then and the chances are you will not want her back at all. As others are saying, time will heal this. Its just that it could take a couple of years to be completely over this. One step at a time though.
> 
> By the way that is expensive whiskey you have been given - was that from her ?


Ha, no, whisky was a gift from best mate for being his head usher!

As always, lots of sense here lamancha. I think, at the heart of this, is her fear of being alone. I occasionally threatened divorce (learning taken, won't use weak / emotional blackmail in future), so she was on the lookout for a new partner in case i did. Not justifying it in any way. You are right, he saw this opportunity and used his female co-worker grooming experience to mould her into his grasp using time, money and resources of their work to implement the capture by providing affection, admiration and conversation. I can see how she fell for it (though looking at him, it can't be physical attraction).

I dunno about affair cooling off though. Neither of them have a fall back now (in the past, the OMW put up with it for the sake of the kids but not this time, she threw him out). Plus they still have thrill of it being a secret at work.

Deep down, i do hope i am over the fear / disappointment of what this will do / has done to my kids before she comes back but today, it's difficult.

Thanks so for getting me through it.


----------



## Melrose8888

honcho said:


> Your an option for her for security. She is doing just enough to keep you hanging around and your trying to read between the lines feeding hope. She is doing nothing to try and win you back.


This resonates strongly with me. Thanks for pointing it out to me, it's quite right and obvious once i think about it / her insecurities.


----------



## Evinrude58

Honcho is exactly right. They all do this ****. They feed you breadcrumbs the make sure you're still pining away for them in case they need the old safety net.
She checks on Facebook because she's scared some other woman is going to take away her safety net.

Mine did all kinds of crazy stuff. Screwed with my head horribly.
It was all about her. No feelings for me at all. 
My greatest enemy was my hope she'd come back and I'd see my wife again. My hope kept me hurting. Don't let it do the same to you. She's run off with another man, melrose. No changing that.
Keep your self respect and find another woman who loves you.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose,

You are projecting your feelings about her onto her. This happens a lot. She does not feel about you as you do her. Hope will keep you bound tight to the notion of how you badly want her to be but that is not who she is now and perhaps never was.

You'd be smart not to delude yourself at this time.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> I really appreciate you sharing your experience.
> 
> I agree on her not loving me. Women cannot love two men at once.
> 
> Divorce is very close BUT it's the only weapon i have against POSOM meeting my boys, so I'm in no rush.
> 
> Thing is i do see and hear signs, she searches for me on FB everyday, she has recently started to tell friends that I'm 'a good man but we didn't make each other happy', she makes excuses to message me, in fact, she texted me today​ to wish me happy birthday and bought gifts (from boys). Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe i am better off not getting sucked back in.
> 
> It would be for the kids if did anything. That might not be a good enough reason.


You sound as if you are trying to convince yourself of something......


----------



## Melrose8888

OK, so today is a new day and I'm back on a bit more of an even keel. Back in the room, as Danny says. Thanks for the support all.

Slight wobble was getting birthday cards from both MIL and ex's Aunt this morning, both with kinds messages of support and hoping I am able to enjoy my birthday despite what has happened. Wasn't expecting that at all.

However, the dating apps fun last night reminded me of the potential that is out there and I shouldn't have to accept second best, no matter how good my intensions for R would be (my children). As long as I can be the one sane parent, I know the boys will be OK and, in time, I fully expect to find a new, better women who will be happy to have them in her life, at the appropriate time.

Had call from solicitor this morning, the very final legal document is complete and submitted to court today for approval. So, if I want to give up the 'control' of divorce being when POSOM can meet kids, I can be divorced in 4/5 weeks time. One thing that made me shake my head in disbelief, was the ex's letter to my solicitor explaining why she is declaring zero cash in her assets, after mediation showing she had £7k+; apparently this is due to the fact she has been providing me with sufficient funds to ensure the boys are comfortable in my home! She pays her half of the mortgage, her car loan and half of the boys childcare fees (the amount she sends doesn't even fully cover this but I wasn't going to rock the boat), that's it! And she earns 1.5 times what I do! What a witch putting that on a legal document as a reply!! (I know for a fact she spent Easter weekend away with POSOM in a beach hut that costs £690 for 2 nights....yep, all about the children isn't it dearest POS ex...?)

So, just in case, prepare me for when the ex does start to play the mind games or a potential return / remorse (still not expecting it but good to be aware). Is it as simple as keeping 180 / NC going?


----------



## Marc878

Hard 180!!!! Get out of the mindset that you would be willing to R for the kids and be her doormat cuckold. If you eat breadcrumbs or are available it just keeps you as a puppet on her string.

You have zero control over this. All you'll end up doing is keep yourself in limbo hell longer.

Stop letting your weakness define you. No one is coming to your rescue. You have to get through this and fix yourself in the process. Your kids need a father who is a man that they can look up to.


----------



## inging

Melrose.
I think all of us at one time, or another, has been talking to the Ex and for a fleeting moment seen the woman you loved. It is very common. She is trying to hoover you.

She is living with another man. Going on expensive holidays and fighting you about money for the kids. This is not someone who actually loves you. This is someone who is missing your attention and your love without any intention of returning it. She wants to return to the affair. It was exciting and safe. It was amazing for her. 

Sigh..

Here is what is supposed to happen in her mind.
After a decent period ( 6-12 months) you are supposed to get over the fact that you were lovers and become friends. You will offer support in the same way you did before and she will introduce you as her former husband, who is great/father/man but things just didn't work out. You may get a few girls but nothing will ever compare to her. You will live in perpetual state of loss for her. Longing like she does for the man she is with who is pulling away. She has no value to the OM now as she cheated on her husband and left her children for him. ( stop using logic)

Right. This is what actually happens
You hurt alot. You miss her. She throws you the friendship bone and you mistake it for something else. A few times. Maybe more than a few time.
Eventually you get tired of hearing her waffle . Her lies, her constant baiting and you answer the phone less and later. You stop hoping that she has made a mistake and you begin to look around. Your dating becomes more serious as you cycle through hurt people, learning. 
You don't let her know anything about your life. With this she tries more and more desperate things to restore you to the state of longing. You are wise now and pull further and further away.



When you are recovered you may meet someone who values you. Who treats you with respect and it is easy. Easier than you can even imagine now.

Be gentle on yourself. The less you engage with her the better it will be. She is not your friend and never was just a friend. 

She is this person now. Everything else is nostalgia.


----------



## bankshot1993

Melrose8888 said:


> So, just in case, prepare me for when the ex does start to play the mind games or a potential return / remorse (still not expecting it but good to be aware). Is it as simple as keeping 180 / NC going?


Stop concerning yourself about what to do if/when she comes crawling back, it doesn't matter if or when. The fact that your asking still tells me that you are pining for her and you need to stop that.

If she ever does come crawling back, this should never be a consideration for you because frankly you shouldn't care enough to even notice.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> Melrose.
> I think all of us at one time, or another, has been talking to the Ex and for a fleeting moment seen the woman you loved. It is very common. She is trying to hoover you.
> 
> She is living with another man. Going on expensive holidays and fighting you about money for the kids. This is not someone who actually loves you. This is someone who is missing your attention and your love without any intention of returning it. She wants to return to the affair. It was exciting and safe. It was amazing for her.
> 
> Sigh..
> 
> Here is what is supposed to happen in her mind.
> After a decent period ( 6-12 months) you are supposed to get over the fact that you were lovers and become friends. You will offer support in the same way you did before and she will introduce you as her former husband, who is great/father/man but things just didn't work out. You may get a few girls but nothing will ever compare to her. You will live in perpetual state of loss for her. Longing like she does for the man she is with who is pulling away. She has no value to the OM now as she cheated on her husband and left her children for him. ( stop using logic)
> 
> Right. This is what actually happens
> You hurt alot. You miss her. She throws you the friendship bone and you mistake it for something else. A few times. Maybe more than a few time.
> Eventually you get tired of hearing her waffle . Her lies, her constant baiting and you answer the phone less and later. You stop hoping that she has made a mistake and you begin to look around. Your dating becomes more serious as you cycle through hurt people, learning.
> You don't let her know anything about your life. With this she tries more and more desperate things to restore you to the state of longing. You are wise now and pull further and further away.
> 
> 
> 
> When you are recovered you may meet someone who values you. Who treats you with respect and it is easy. Easier than you can even imagine now.
> 
> Be gentle on yourself. The less you engage with her the better it will be. She is not your friend and never was just a friend.
> 
> She is this person now. Everything else is nostalgia.


Fantastic post, ing.

I don't actually see the woman I loved, I know she doesn't love me, I can see she is still very much in limerence but I can still tell that she is fooling herself, that there is something wrong with her. I've known her for 17 years, I know her true, deep down character. It's easy to say she was never the person I thought she was and that is true right now but in this case, it just feel like it is temporary.

That said, I just had a birthday wobble / trigger and I am back on track again. I know this is for the best.

Honestly, if I didn't have kids, I wouldn't even see her in my rear view she'd be so far gone and I wouldn't contact at all. I've already firmly rejected the 'offer of the friendship hand' and she knows why - because I don't need an abuser as a friend. I don't mistake that for remorse, I know it because she can then feel accepted about what she has done - well, she ain't ever getting that acceptance from me!

Got a date tomorrow, divorced mum, 9 years older, should be a new experience for me. I have a very strong suspicion that she works at the same (large) place of work as STBXW and POSOM, though...will save that question for the date.


----------



## bandit.45

inging said:


> Melrose.
> I think all of us at one time, or another, has been talking to the Ex and for a fleeting moment seen the woman you loved. It is very common. She is trying to hoover you.
> 
> She is living with another man. Going on expensive holidays and fighting you about money for the kids. This is not someone who actually loves you. This is someone who is missing your attention and your love without any intention of returning it. She wants to return to the affair. It was exciting and safe. It was amazing for her.
> 
> Sigh..
> 
> Here is what is supposed to happen in her mind.
> After a decent period ( 6-12 months) you are supposed to get over the fact that you were lovers and become friends. You will offer support in the same way you did before and she will introduce you as her former husband, who is great/father/man but things just didn't work out. You may get a few girls but nothing will ever compare to her. You will live in perpetual state of loss for her. Longing like she does for the man she is with who is pulling away. She has no value to the OM now as she cheated on her husband and left her children for him. ( stop using logic)
> 
> Right. This is what actually happens
> You hurt alot. You miss her. She throws you the friendship bone and you mistake it for something else. A few times. Maybe more than a few time.
> Eventually you get tired of hearing her waffle . Her lies, her constant baiting and you answer the phone less and later. You stop hoping that she has made a mistake and you begin to look around. Your dating becomes more serious as you cycle through hurt people, learning.
> You don't let her know anything about your life. With this she tries more and more desperate things to restore you to the state of longing. You are wise now and pull further and further away.
> 
> When you are recovered you may meet someone who values you. Who treats you with respect and it is easy. Easier than you can even imagine now.
> 
> Be gentle on yourself. The less you engage with her the better it will be. She is not your friend and never was just a friend.
> 
> She is this person now. Everything else is nostalgia.


:allhail: 

The Great and Poweful Ing has spoken.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> Got a date tomorrow, divorced mum, 9 years older, should be a new experience for me. I have a very strong suspicion that she works at the same (large) place of work as STBXW and POSOM, though...will save that question for the date.


Older women rock in bed. :grin2:


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Fantastic post, ing.
> 
> I don't actually see the woman I loved, I know she doesn't love me, I can see she is still very much in limerence but I can still tell that she is fooling herself, that there is something wrong with her. I've known her for 17 years, I know her true, deep down character. It's easy to say she was never the person I thought she was and that is true right now but in this case, it just feel like it is temporary.
> 
> Excuses to make her look better than she is because you just don't want to believe it. Still hoping she'll come back and it'll all just go away. It won't. Hoping won't get you where you need to be. Maybe when she moves the kids in with OM you'll wake up.
> 
> That said, I just had a birthday wobble / trigger and I am back on track again. I know this is for the best.
> 
> Honestly, if I didn't have kids, I wouldn't even see her in my rear view she'd be so far gone and I wouldn't contact at all. I've already firmly rejected the 'offer of the friendship hand' and she knows why - because I don't need an abuser as a friend. I don't mistake that for remorse, I know it because she can then feel accepted about what she has done - well, she ain't ever getting that acceptance from me!
> 
> Got a date tomorrow, divorced mum, 9 years older, should be a new experience for me. I have a very strong suspicion that she works at the same (large) place of work as STBXW and POSOM, though...will save that question for the date.
> 
> Do not talk about your STBXW for the D. No woman wants the X or memory of the X in her relationship


----------



## inging

Here is the thing melrose. You are probably right that it is just temporary. My Ex returned to wanting me and a life together ( for real) about 6 months ago. That was 5.5 years later. Her life is ruined.

What struck me when I talked to her (from my high castle of smugness) was that for the whole time she had seen herself as "struggling" yet valuable. While she was struggling with her MLC what had happened to me? I had been dumped like a a 1970's Leyland Allegro . 

That hurts the ego, quiet alot, so we tend to compensate by getting out there. We go on dates and get validated. We hopefully also get laid. Now we feel more like a somewhat dodgy Escort 2000.


This all happens while the Ex is struggling, while they are working themselves out and quite Incidentally being banged daily.. 

Years pass and one day you just don't give a fck. You are well maintained XJ6 V8 Jaaarg with walnut interior and worn in full grain leather seating.

You look at your Ex and she is worn out Alfa Romeo Alfetta. Once beautiful and temperamental. Now rusted and clapped out.

You have sympathy but prefer your girlfriends Tesla 

Hope that helps


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 I do hope the unicorn milk milkshakes she is guzzling down don't make her too fat.


----------



## Melrose8888

bandit.45 said:


> Older women rock in bed. :grin2:


The STBXW is older, and she didn't.
Well, tbf, she gave a great BJ. Aha! That might be the reason I contemplated R. :grin2:


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> Older women rock in bed. :grin2:


Exact reason why I dated them in my early 20s..... was either that or the -BS, games, drama,

pick me the college aged girls wanted to play. Plus... pop recommended it. As usual, he was right.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> Here is the thing melrose. You are probably right that it is just temporary. My Ex returned to wanting me and a life together ( for real) about 6 months ago. That was 5.5 years later. Her life is ruined.
> 
> What struck me when I talked to her (from my high castle of smugness) was that for the whole time she had seen herself as "struggling" yet valuable. While she was struggling with her MLC what had happened to me? I had been dumped like a a 1970's Leyland Allegro .
> 
> That hurts the ego, quiet alot, so we tend to compensate by getting out there. We go on dates and get validated. We hopefully also get laid. Now we feel more like a somewhat dodgy Escort 2000.
> 
> 
> This all happens while the Ex is struggling, while they are working themselves out and quite Incidentally being banged daily..
> 
> Years pass and one day you just don't give a fck. You are well maintained XJ6 V8 Jaaarg with walnut interior and worn in full grain leather seating.
> 
> You look at your Ex and she is worn out Alfa Romeo Alfetta. Once beautiful and temperamental. Now rusted and clapped out.
> 
> You have sympathy but prefer your girlfriends Tesla
> 
> Hope that helps


Oh my, I've always wanted an Alfa...I think we are really getting to the bottom of my issues today! :laugh:

I get it though, thanks for sharing your experience.

Counsellor said today that despite the wobble, I'm in a really strong place and suggested, given ex is so keen on being friends, that i can use that non rejection to my advantage. Essentially suggesting I relax my NC, to allow me to get ex to open up on POSOM, so i can keep an eye on him that way. I know what reaction that is going to get here on TAM!!


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh my, I've always wanted an Alfa...I think we are really getting to the bottom of my issues today! :laugh:
> 
> I get it though, thanks for sharing your experience.
> 
> Counsellor said today that despite the wobble, I'm in a really strong place and suggested, given ex is so keen on being friends, that i can use that non rejection to my advantage. Essentially suggesting I relax my NC, to allow me to get ex to open up on POSOM, so i can keep an eye on him that way. I know what reaction that is going to get here on TAM!!


Sounds like putting lipstick on a pig. Geeze 

You can't let it go you'll have no future of your own. Sounds extremely weak and passive. 

Appeasment is doormatish behavior. Strength is attractive, weakness is not. Always!!!


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Exact reason why I dated them in my early 20s..... was either that or the -BS, games, drama,
> 
> pick me the college aged girls wanted to play. Plus... pop recommended it. As usual, he was right.


I missed out on this window while plodding on with ex, so why not!

Lunch with OMW tomorrow too, she is 51...We've managed to keep our friendship mostly smut free but, if she offered to take me in the back of her Discovery, I'd probably last 2 minutes! :wink2:


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> I missed out on this window while plodding on with ex, so why not!
> 
> Lunch with OMW tomorrow too, she is 51...We've managed to keep our friendship mostly smut free but, if she offered to take me in the back of her Discovery, I'd probably last 2 minutes! :wink2:


51? Ooh! A hot young babe! 

Oh. Showing my age.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose...... Melrose......Melrose..... c'mere. Hands you some fine Jack Daniels. Let me take you to the lake.

1st love will always chase me, even though she will always have plenty of guys chasing her. Her completely F'ed up childhood lead to this.... She was desperate to leave her parents house as a teen. I convinced her to talk to some "sane" relatives. She did and they took her in. Those were good times for us because she did not have to run.

Maybe a year in... her brother (very mentally unstable), dad (VERY mentally unstable), and mom (unstable just by company) started interacting with her. Her feet got hoppy... it wasn't long before she put on her Nike shoes and bolted. She has ran ever since. WTF do you know Chuck? Not hard when they sit there and tell you that themselves. In a way she saw me not only as her b/f but a stable presence. In a round about way, pop kinda told me this would happen down the road. Walking down memory lane with her, awesome, it would be great to turn back time.... but we can't. I know that, 1st love knows that.... she just can't accept it.

2nd love..... popism "If you want to see how your sweet thang will be in twenty years, look at her momma." He was right. Her mom would have a different guy at the house every month almost, dating 2-3 at one time. Not a great role model for a teen daughter huh. Anytime her love life went in the crapper.... guess who she took it out on.... yep 2nd love and her lil brother. It got so bad I almost said something.

But guess who she would have taken it out on.... yep! Especially 2nd love, just to get to me. Pop never liked 2nd love much, liked her mom even less. Pop and mom both loved 1st love but pop warned me, she is damaged. 2nd love's mom was a manipulator and guess who 2nd love wanted to try that out on. Reason why we were just off and on the last two years. I refused to put up with it.
We reconnected after my D, well she did, sent me a friend request on our anniversary... yes that was intentional being we had not spoken in 17 years. 

Today 1st love is the same scared child she was 25-30 years ago. All she knows is to run. I will not "save her." She doesn't know how to save herself. So the cycle goes on and on and on and on.

2nd love.... she ended up exactly like her mother. M the next guy that came along after our last break-up. They D about 6 years in. He pays CS but she "lets him see his son when she decides he can." Because the D was ALL his fault. Sound familiar?.......... 2nd love is great for memory lane but that's about it. She is bitter. She is one of the most negative people I have ever met.... just like her mom. Sad thing.... I knew her when she had hopes, dreams, aspirations, was happy. I am blessed.... I could very well have been the only person to see that side of her. 

Now.... would Chuck take either back? God no..... never. See Melrose... when you walk away, everything becomes so clear @ 50k. I am blessed to have met both and they each shaped a part of who I am today. But they're damaged... and it's NOT my job to fix them. Even if I did.... would they truly want to be fixed?

I meant to mention my 3rd love/XW, post-D g/f UG.... and last year's DC. But... I think I wrote enough for now. You sort of get the idea where those three will go, be glad to expand on those too.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh my, I've always wanted an Alfa...I think we are really getting to the bottom of my issues today! :laugh:
> 
> I get it though, thanks for sharing your experience.
> 
> Counsellor said today that despite the wobble, I'm in a really strong place and suggested, given ex is so keen on being friends, that i can use that non rejection to my advantage. Essentially suggesting I relax my NC, to allow me to get ex to open up on POSOM, so i can keep an eye on him that way. I know what reaction that is going to get here on TAM!!


ONLY drop NC if you can get a better settlement. The ONLY reasons why she would be doing this

is to place you at Plan B with breadcrumbs or to ease her guilt for re-writing history.

No matter how you feel... full steam ahead with the D. If you ever go out / date her again

I would hurl for three hours but I'd much rather see you dating her as a single man than as a M one.


----------



## Evinrude58

Melrose8888 said:


> Oh my, I've always wanted an Alfa...I think we are really getting to the bottom of my issues today! :laugh:
> 
> I get it though, thanks for sharing your experience.
> 
> Counsellor said today that despite the wobble, I'm in a really strong place and suggested, given ex is so keen on being friends, that i can use that non rejection to my advantage. Essentially suggesting I relax my NC, to allow me to get ex to open up on POSOM, so i can keep an eye on him that way. I know what reaction that is going to get here on TAM!!


So your counselor thinks you should try to get back with a woman that's chosen another man over you, one that is married and is turning his back in his own family, and that is trying to worn his way interested your kids' life?

Because if so, letting your wife friend zone you is worse than losing her, in my opinion. You're going to listen to all her **** about the other man and how his **** hurts her a little because it's so huge but she still can't get enough of it? That he likes the anal you never got, but she's really not that into it and only gives it to him because she's so in love with him and it makes him happy?

If you are trying to get your ex back after what she has done, you're really not in a position of strength at all. If you're thinking you can let her friend zone you and get her away from another guy who is screwing her hard and regularly, you're delusional.

Fire your counselor. 

You've got a little attn from your wife by no contact. As soon as you start talking to her, she will cut contact again.
Any contact you have with her will put you back in limbo hell. If you like limbo hell with a wife who is getting plowed by another dude, go ahead and let her friend zone you. I'm sure hearing about that other man will be about as healthy for you as reading my God forsaken, horrible post I just typed in an effort to 2 x 4 you back into a little sense.

You gotta stop this man. Really.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> I missed out on this window while plodding on with ex, so why not!
> 
> Lunch with OMW tomorrow too, she is 51...We've managed to keep our friendship mostly smut free but, if she offered to take me in the back of her Discovery, I'd probably last 2 minutes! :wink2:


Don't have sex in a Land Rover. The shocks might break. And it would probably break down on the highway before she got it to the shop to get the shocks fixed. 

Send me some money and I'll ship you over a proper GMC pickup...or lorrie....or whatever horrible thing you call our beloved trucks over there.


----------



## bandit.45

Evinrude58 said:


> So your counselor thinks you should try to get back with a woman that's chosen another man over you, one that is married and is turning his back in his own family, and that is trying to worn his way interested your kids' life?
> 
> Because if so, letting your wife friend zone you is worse than losing her, in my opinion. You're going to listen to all her **** about the other man and how his **** hurts her a little because it's so huge but she still can't get enough of it? That he likes the anal you never got, but she's really not that into it and only gives it to him because she's so in love with him and it makes him happy?
> 
> If you are trying to get your ex back after what she has done, you're really not in a position of strength at all. If you're thinking you can let her friend zone you and get her away from another guy who is screwing her hard and regularly, you're delusional.
> 
> Fire your counselor.
> 
> You've got a little attn from your wife by no contact. As soon as you start talking to her, she will cut contact again.
> Any contact you have with her will put you back in limbo hell. If you like limbo hell with a wife who is getting plowed by another dude, go ahead and let her friend zone you. I'm sure hearing about that other man will be about as healthy for you as reading my God forsaken, horrible post I just typed in an effort to 2 x 4 you back into a little sense.
> 
> You gotta stop this man. Really.



This^^^^^^

Your strength so far is the ONLY reason she has treated you with a modicum of respect. Start being nice to her now and you will lose whatever milliliter amount of grudging respect you have earned from her. 

Your counselor is a fish. Tell him "No, I'm not doing that. Now that we have that settled, how do I work on ME this week?"


----------



## Chuck71

Evinrude58 said:


> So your counselor thinks you should try to get back with a woman that's chosen another man over you, one that is married and is turning his back in his own family, and that is trying to worn his way interested your kids' life?
> 
> Because if so, letting your wife friend zone you is worse than losing her, in my opinion. You're going to listen to all her **** about the other man and how his **** hurts her a little because it's so huge but she still can't get enough of it? That he likes the anal you never got, but she's really not that into it and only gives it to him because she's so in love with him and it makes him happy?
> 
> If you are trying to get your ex back after what she has done, you're really not in a position of strength at all. If you're thinking you can let her friend zone you and get her away from another guy who is screwing her hard and regularly, you're delusional.
> 
> Fire your counselor.
> 
> You've got a little attn from your wife by no contact. As soon as you start talking to her, she will cut contact again.
> Any contact you have with her will put you back in limbo hell. If you like limbo hell with a wife who is getting plowed by another dude, go ahead and let her friend zone you. I'm sure hearing about that other man will be about as healthy for you as reading my God forsaken, horrible post I just typed in an effort to 2 x 4 you back into a little sense.
> 
> You gotta stop this man. Really.


I'm quite certain if Melrose keeps seeing this "counsellor" who I can tell... is female...

WW will be driving around town with OPs balls hanging on her rear view mirror.

Currently loading up the 2x4s..... or in this case 4x8s.


----------



## Melrose8888

Counsellor absolutely doesn't want me to try for R. I don't want the ex back! I'm already in limbo, if I apply for decree absolute / final Divorce, that opens the window for POSOM to move in with ex and kids, as that is what was agreed in mediation. (well, we agreed to discuss it then, I'm sure ex takes it as she can do it).

She (yes, female) has actually made me see that this relationship had run it's course a long time ago (me holding on to a bad thing too long for wrong reasons) but fully understands why I don't want POSOM near kids. Given that and her knowing how I still require a degree of control here, is suggesting that I can achieve that by softening my approach with ex. I don't need to be 'nice' I just need to open a communication channel that serves ME a purpose.

The way I see it, after all, in ex's eyes I am still the evil man here, all she sees me as is the ex who is bitter, trying to break them up and therefore, I am actually pushing them closer together. If she doesn't see me as a threat but still firmly understands I'm doing great and will never be a Plan B, I can co-parent more comfortably, without the defensive and untrue assumptions she is making that I am not moving on, am bitter, twisted and just out to cause revenge.

Now, I know that is a risk and totally agree that an insane cheater still in limerance could use it to boost her ego. She could also react by understanding where I am at, concerned for kids, no concern at all for her doomed relationship with her boss.

Incidentally, the IC, like many of you, categorically believes their affair is doomed and laughs at my suggestion of how serious they are. We do work on me, I specifically asked about this topic today.

In terms of how this impacts D, all is done, the documents are signed and sent, it's all over bar the court stamp and that is a formality. No risk here. This is about protecting my boys and making it clear exactly why POSOM has always been a POSOM!


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## Evinrude58

Melrose, if only that were true.
You were talking about considering reconciling just a day or two ago.

You're using any excuse you can find to communicate with your ex.

POSOM or someone else is going to be around your kids. You have to accept that. It's not in your power to prevent. 
If you're talking about delaying the divorce to prevent POSOM from getting around your kids, what you're really wanting is to delay the divorce.

You have to realize that tons of us here have already been through what you're feeling, so we know when you're jerking our skirt.

You are still in love with your wife, its killing you, and you are wanting to keep any kind of contact with her possible because then you know what's going on with her and can keep up hope.

What experience tells us, is to advise YOU to drop all contact with her whatsoever other than concise texts about kids.

Otherwise, you're going to be hurting longer. And your lousy counselor should know that.

But you're going to do what your emotions tell you to do.

One positive thing: by golly you did file for divorce. That's the smartest, toughest, strongest move you've made. It will help you get past this in the end.


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> Melrose, if only that were true.
> You were talking about considering reconciling just a day or two ago.
> 
> You're using any excuse you can find to communicate with your ex.
> 
> POSOM or someone else is going to be around your kids. You have to accept that. It's not in your power to prevent.
> If you're talking about delaying the divorce to prevent POSOM from getting around your kids, what you're really wanting is to delay the divorce.
> 
> You have to realize that tons of us here have already been through what you're feeling, so we know when you're jerking our skirt.
> 
> You are still in love with your wife, its killing you, and you are wanting to keep any kind of contact with her possible because then you know what's going on with her and can keep up hope.
> 
> What experience tells us, is to advise YOU to drop all contact with her whatsoever other than concise texts about kids.
> 
> Otherwise, you're going to be hurting longer. And your lousy counselor should know that.
> 
> But you're going to do what your emotions tell you to do.
> 
> One positive thing: by golly you did file for divorce. That's the smartest, toughest, strongest move you've made. It will help you get past this in the end.


I appreciate being challenged on all of this by you and those who know.

So yes, i had a wobble on a trigger date, first birthday alone. I'll let myself off that one and ensure next year, boys are with me. Done.

Let me tell you though, I have no desire to lie to a group of people who are here to help me. I could drive round to STBXW house this very minute and start communicating in a instant, i don't need an excuse. I have been NC other than kids, divorce, stopping POSOM meeting kids and one email in Feb where I stupidly asked her how she was.

I'm OK with other men being around my kids, just not a serial home wrecking cheating ****.

D-day was 12th Dec. Only 4 months ago. My divorce is less than 4 weeks away from being final. I and I alone have driven this. Hopefully Danny or Sid will comment on how impressive this is in the UK. Not want a divorce? Rubbish. It was always going to happen.

R talk was for kids but i can see they will be fine in a new setup. Not my life map but I'll build a new one.

Yes, OK, so I do still care (love?) my ex. She is still the mother of my kids. 17 years. Not going to flip a switch like she did.

Heart has always been on my sleeve but I'm learning to slow down my brain.

I feel I need to know what is in her head about boys and POSOM, especially as he has just moved back up north, 60 miles away, in hope his kids will see him again. That could be a custody battle I need to be prepared for. Not going to accept listening to her limernace babble. Will shut it down.


----------



## Marc878

Hanging on is a needy, clingy form of the "pick me dance" no matter how hard you try and disguise it.

You will never have any control over her or who she introduces your kids to. If she introduces them to him tomorrow what could you do about it. Nothing. 

Quit your scheming and go your own way besides once she introduces the kids to him that's just extra burden on a bad situation anyway. Kids might push the fantasy out the window quicker than anything else.


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## JohnA

No, do not become friends. There are reasons why your marriage lasted 17 years. Those reasons are still there (his needs-her needs) but may or may not exist (actually I am sure there is lot wrong with it that will come out with time) and she will use you to support her current relationship. I have a friend who's call him at times about non children related matters. I challenged him with the fact that every time she called it was because boyfriend blew her off about what ever she called about. Yep, real eye opener for him.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> I appreciate being challenged on all of this by you and those who know.
> 
> So yes, i had a wobble on a trigger date, first birthday alone. I'll let myself off that one and ensure next year, boys are with me. Done.
> 
> Let me tell you though, I have no desire to lie to a group of people who are here to help me. I could drive round to STBXW house this very minute and start communicating in a instant, i don't need an excuse. I have been NC other than kids, divorce, stopping POSOM meeting kids and one email in Feb where I stupidly asked her how she was.
> 
> I'm OK with other men being around my kids, just not a serial home wrecking cheating ****.
> 
> D-day was 12th Dec. Only 4 months ago. My divorce is less than 4 weeks away from being final. I and I alone have driven this. Hopefully Danny or Sid will comment on how impressive this is in the UK. Not want a divorce? Rubbish. It was always going to happen.
> 
> R talk was for kids but i can see they will be fine in a new setup. Not my life map but I'll build a new one.
> 
> Yes, OK, so I do still care (love?) my ex. She is still the mother of my kids. 17 years. Not going to flip a switch like she did.
> 
> Heart has always been on my sleeve but I'm learning to slow down my brain.
> 
> I feel I need to know what is in her head about boys and POSOM, especially as he has just moved back up north, 60 miles away, in hope his kids will see him again. That could be a custody battle I need to be prepared for. Not going to accept listening to her limernace babble. Will shut it down.


For a divorce to be this quick in England/Wales (not sure on the different legal system in Scotland) is a near miracle.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... how's that JD going down? You know it's good when you think that female forest ranger is hot. I learned the most there when the moon beams would dance across the water. The trilogy I told you I wrote... the lake is where he goes, Mike Thomas. Course it's where I always go. Yeah... there's a bit of MT in me. That's what authors do.

Anyhow... I 110% get part of you still loves your STBXW. I STILL love who my XW WAS.... NOT is. God she was amazing years ago. But that part of her "died," just like it has with your WW. Of all the major loves I mentioned earlier.... 1st and 3rd love were the "true connections." There seemed something extra there. Like it WAS meant. And for awhile, it was.

But things happen along the way. If after my D in 2012..... if I was a professional rugsweeper, I would not be back with my XW, I would be with 1st love. But things happen along the way.... I do not forgive. Cheating is one, trying to manipulate me into doing something you know I would not do (in 1990) is another. She was guilty of both.... sad thing is, her worst transgression.... I haven't even mentioned. That alone will forbade a re-capture.

This POSOM.... he appears to not much care about his own kids.... do you think he would give two sheets about yours? If your WW has one ounce of decency, she would kick him to the curb for JUST that alone. But look who we're talking about......

You can not control who your WW into's her kids to. Be nice if you could... and if she had any decency she would not allow it until a good while after the D dust has settled. The kids already partially know who he is.... and is a part of the reason mommy n daddy are not together. Good bet they already don't like him.

I think it was maybe 4-5 months after WC and I started dating that she into'd me to her son. Even though he was already wanting to meet me. I told her I was in agreement but added, it's 110% your call anyway. She respected me for that.

The POSOM will not be a "replacement dad," I opine that might worry you a bit.... 110% normal. Wait till POSOMs BW finds out he gave your kids (insert ANYTHING... a Popsicle, a Matchbox car, a sandwich) and is not his own kids. She will be on the warpath.

I am semi-familiar with GB law / D / CS, etc. She will take POSOM to the cleaners. Then.... POSOM will bow his head, beg his BW to take him back. And leave your WW sitting on the couch with her thumb up her a$$. Don't think it will happen..... LOL .... just keep active on TAM until the holidays. 

Had.... to comment on your DDay. Mine was 11/3/12.... joined here 11/5. The night / day I let everything go... 12/11/12 (it's on my old thread) Starting on 12/12 she came home straight from work every night. I had already came out of the rabbit hole.... with boundaries. Just four years to the day.... your DDay and when the entire D and D final wait changed.


----------



## MattMatt

She wants to be friends? 










My first girlfriend told me she wanted us to be friends after she dumped me for someone else. 

I believed her. Well, I was young and naive.


----------



## Danny4133

MattMatt said:


> For a divorce to be this quick in England/Wales (not sure on the different legal system in Scotland) is a near miracle.


It sure is, 10 months and just at fooking Nisi.
Money going in the flames every month. I've had to push push push. Issue threats and deadlines to get action. This is what happened when pos ex stalls and puts head in sand. Frustrating is not the word. You did well in this regard Melrose


----------



## Chuck71

Danny4133 said:


> It sure is, 10 months and just at fooking Nisi.
> Money going in the flames every month. I've had to push push push. Issue threats and deadlines to get action. This is what happened when pos ex stalls and puts head in sand. Frustrating is not the word. You did well in this regard Melrose


The lawyers help...... billable hours. Reason why "Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith is required

reading for lawyers in the UK.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose, 

The best thing you can do for yourself and your kids is give her exactly what she wants. A fast D. 

POSOM is already trying to make up to his family. Set your wife free as fast as possible. The reality should come swiftly. She's free and he's ugh buying time. Won't take long for that to play out.

You are like a little boy trying to hold back the tide. Get out of the fog man.


----------



## inging

Don't buy an Alfa! Don't even think about it.. 


I think your counselor is seeing the anger and hurt and asking you to let that go.

There is no need to be friends or sit down with your Ex for a cup of tea but you may be feeding their relationship with your anger and pain. Think of her as an emotional vampire. Every time she sees or talks to you she is going to say or do things that incite a reaction from you. Any reaction is fine. She will feed on that and become stronger and happier and then go trotting back to her man with new stories.

I was with my Exw for 25 years. 

It takes time to separate the emotional bonds after 17 years. You will have wobbles and you will mourn the loss of the future you planned for your children. But, she left you, and your kids, for a married man. She has ruined her life and there is not a thing you can do about it. She is a grown up woman. 
She is willing and enthusiastic in this decision. That is all you need to keep in mind.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi all, had a purposeful break away from my thread, just to sit back and assess all that has gone on in the past 5 months and take in all the advice.

So what has happened in the last week? In summary, I did notify the STBXW about POSOMs past infidelities, the risk posed by them sneaking around at work and him still sleeping with his wife while dating my wife. I asked if she wanted the letter and she did, so handed her a written, sealed note. She opened it that evening and, of course, showed POSOM who challenged the facts and timings (FB snoop info). The next day, apparently POSOM told his boss about their relationship (but I am under no illusions that this won’t be the truth but rather that they ‘only just’ fell for each other) but at least they took some action.

No surprise here: ex wrote a note back to me, which I received Saturday, saying it was inaccurate and a shame I believed the lies etc etc. plus a few digs on happiness / refusing to take his kids old toys he gave to them away but ending by saying, no introductions until I am content.

Then I did some further FB snooping and found out that POSOM had posted me a “hard hitting” letter, which is expected to arrive today (Tuesday). So, I went on front foot, told ex I wasn’t surprised at her response, re-iterated my intensions were all to do with protecting boys in case POSOM only hung around for a few months, told her that I felt a weight off my shoulders for telling her the truth and that we should all draw a line under this and move on.

Well, that caused a bit of confusion and panic in unicorn land! Long story short, with a large amount of support from OMW, who cleverly told him that I have all the evidence to tell their work the real truth and if he was up to something, that he should call it off. Well, yesterday, he decided to text me (again!) saying he was angry and had to respond to me, to correct key points of the letter. He wanted me to take that into consideration when reading the content of the letter... He agreed that it is best to draw a line and apologised for causing me pain and sadness (!!!).

So, I did text him back, telling him I too was angry that he took my wife and 50% of time with my kids, that it must have been uncomfortable for him, me dragging up his past and (in context of being the bigger man here and striking a blow for swallowing pride) I said I wouldn’t actually open the letter at all…

Dramatic few days, I know 95% of you thought the letter was a bad idea but I feel 100% better for it. I made it clear to STBXW that I am returning to NC aside from kids / final divorce proceedings and that she should expect things to be quiet and stable for the next few months. If it isn't, then exposure of the truth, still remains the option but OMW needs his salary to secure new mortgage, so we will likely hold off for a couple of months (and who knows, I might not even care then?).

I also followed up a few of my dating matches last week, to have a drink with 3 different woman and one of them, there was an instant spark. She is pretty much the opposite of my ex, which wasn’t intentional but we’ve had 3 dates in the last week! Maybe it’s because I’ve been in a bad marriage for so long but she is so caring, thoughtful, loving, excited to see and hear from me, it’s incredible. She’s a 90 minute drive from me, which isn’t ideal but could work well, given I have boys and still want my independence (which she knows). The level of openness and honesty between us is the biggest draw - I feel she is an open book with no secrets.

Whatever happens in the long term with this new women, she has already added a tremendous amount of value to my life and my mind. It’s also allowed me to assess what the STBXW is feeling and I understand her desire to introduce the POSOM and integrate the children – why wouldn’t you want to do this when you have strong feelings for someone? Still doesn’t make the timing correct or the underhand interference, such as giving my boys POSOM kids old toys (and refusing to take them away, even though they both knew how distressing this was for me and OMW), right but good to understand nonetheless.

I guess it does show that dating is important in the recovery from infidelity but only when you feel ready in yourself and only if you are up front and honest about your situation / intentions.

On divorce, I expect consent order to be sealed in 2 week’s time, for me to take on the house first week of June and pay off the ex at the same time. Creates a new world for me, where financial uncertainty is the new norm but there is plenty of equity in the house should the **** hit the fan and there is more to life than £££.

That leaves applying for absolute, which I think I will do it in a couple of weeks. It’s the bind that stops POSOM meeting the kids (and I could delay it until end of September if I wanted to) but I feel we all must move on now and hope that the impact on my boys is minimal. Let’s hope POSOM can learn from all that has happened this week and change his spots….hmmmm…

So another few dates with the new GF planned this week, I have my social activities lined up, my counselling sessions, I’m running / going to gym, new GF has bought me a golf lesson (so thoughtful!) and work is busy but rewarding.

Only 141 days since D-day. Lots of progress and boy, do I feel a better person!!

I'm going higher...


----------



## manfromlamancha

Well done Melrose. As you know I know more about the POSOM and your situation and may I say to whole TAM forum here that she is DEFINITELY trading down in the looks, personality, fitness, attractiveness depts. Sounds funny I know (but if I were a woman, I would go for Melrose myself  ) - think Steve McQueen/Michael Fassbender versus Fester from the Addams family (I kid you not).

Melrose you are going to do so much better (your next gig is going to be younger, funnier, prettier and sexier - I promise) and unfortunately your stbxw will sorely regret her decision in time to come. Your boys will be fine as long as you are in their lives and (I have seen this play out before) will rebel against their mother when they are in their teens if she says anything disparaging about you. The POSOM will be long gone by then.

In the meantime the karma bus is headed their way.

Take care, protect you and yours and good luck with the dating.


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, had a purposeful break away from my thread, just to sit back and assess all that has gone on in the past 5 months and take in all the advice.
> 
> So what has happened in the last week? In summary, I did notify the STBXW about POSOMs past infidelities, the risk posed by them sneaking around at work and him still sleeping with his wife while dating my wife. I asked if she wanted the letter and she did, so handed her a written, sealed note. She opened it that evening and, of course, showed POSOM who challenged the facts and timings (FB snoop info). The next day, apparently POSOM told his boss about their relationship (but I am under no illusions that this won’t be the truth but rather that they ‘only just’ fell for each other) but at least they took some action.
> 
> No surprise here: ex wrote a note back to me, which I received Saturday, saying it was inaccurate and a shame I believed the lies etc etc. plus a few digs on happiness / refusing to take his kids old toys he gave to them away but ending by saying, no introductions until I am content.
> 
> Then I did some further FB snooping and found out that POSOM had posted me a “hard hitting” letter, which is expected to arrive today (Tuesday). So, I went on front foot, told ex I wasn’t surprised at her response, re-iterated my intensions were all to do with protecting boys in case POSOM only hung around for a few months, told her that I felt a weight off my shoulders for telling her the truth and that we should all draw a line under this and move on.
> 
> Well, that caused a bit of confusion and panic in unicorn land! Long story short, with a large amount of support from OMW, who cleverly told him that I have all the evidence to tell their work the real truth and if he was up to something, that he should call it off. Well, yesterday, he decided to text me (again!) saying he was angry and had to respond to me, to correct key points of the letter. He wanted me to take that into consideration when reading the content of the letter... He agreed that it is best to draw a line and apologised for causing me pain and sadness (!!!).
> 
> So, I did text him back, telling him I too was angry that he took my wife and 50% of time with my kids, that it must have been uncomfortable for him, me dragging up his past and (in context of being the bigger man here and striking a blow for swallowing pride) I said I wouldn’t actually open the letter at all…
> 
> Dramatic few days, I know 95% of you thought the letter was a bad idea but I feel 100% better for it. I made it clear to STBXW that I am returning to NC aside from kids / final divorce proceedings and that she should expect things to be quiet and stable for the next few months. If it isn't, then exposure of the truth, still remains the option but OMW needs his salary to secure new mortgage, so we will likely hold off for a couple of months (and who knows, I might not even care then?).
> 
> I also followed up a few of my dating matches last week, to have a drink with 3 different woman and one of them, there was an instant spark. She is pretty much the opposite of my ex, which wasn’t intentional but we’ve had 3 dates in the last week! Maybe it’s because I’ve been in a bad marriage for so long but she is so caring, thoughtful, loving, excited to see and hear from me, it’s incredible. She’s a 90 minute drive from me, which isn’t ideal but could work well, given I have boys and still want my independence (which she knows). The level of openness and honesty between us is the biggest draw - I feel she is an open book with no secrets.
> 
> Whatever happens in the long term with this new women, she has already added a tremendous amount of value to my life and my mind. It’s also allowed me to assess what the STBXW is feeling and I understand her desire to introduce the POSOM and integrate the children – why wouldn’t you want to do this when you have strong feelings for someone? Still doesn’t make the timing correct or the underhand interference, such as giving my boys POSOM kids old toys (and refusing to take them away, even though they both knew how distressing this was for me and OMW), right but good to understand nonetheless.
> 
> I guess it does show that dating is important in the recovery from infidelity but only when you feel ready in yourself and only if you are up front and honest about your situation / intentions.
> 
> On divorce, I expect consent order to be sealed in 2 week’s time, for me to take on the house first week of June and pay off the ex at the same time. Creates a new world for me, where financial uncertainty is the new norm but there is plenty of equity in the house should the **** hit the fan and there is more to life than £££.
> 
> That leaves applying for absolute, which I think I will do it in a couple of weeks. It’s the bind that stops POSOM meeting the kids (and I could delay it until end of September if I wanted to) but I feel we all must move on now and hope that the impact on my boys is minimal. Let’s hope POSOM can learn from all that has happened this week and change his spots….hmmmm…
> 
> So another few dates with the new GF planned this week, I have my social activities lined up, my counselling sessions, I’m running / going to gym, new GF has bought me a golf lesson (so thoughtful!) and work is busy but rewarding.
> 
> Only 141 days since D-day. Lots of progress and boy, do I feel a better person!!
> 
> I'm going higher...


The wheels turn mate and they slowly turn towards your favour, your future, with resilience, endeavour and yes being in tune with your honesty and feelings will work better for you and new bird in the long run.
I'm glad to hear you're getting your act together mate. Trailer is unhooking and you're leaving the morally bankrupt fire damaged stock behind in the trailer, the decree absolute will be the final uncoupling.
Putting youre kids needs first will only reap rewards for you in the long run and they are lucky to have a stable pappie in their corner. I know you'll keep on with that as it's who your are.

Good on you kiddo.

Things are still very recent in terms of the shock of everything, I whole heartedly agree with advice given to us that it'll take 1-3 years perhaps to get back to a sense of normality, but why put your life in to hiatus if you feel that you're ready to go dating?
It's your life mate and as long as you check in with yourself I see no problem, IMHO it certainly helped me move on faster to the zero fudges given stage.

With STBXW keep everything on an absolute down-low, only respond when absolutely necessary - and no more snooping !
Dealing with an abusive ex necessitates absolute minimal contact - oh and when you do have contact keep everything documented mate. when this go to pot for STBX and it's very likely to in future you need to be prepared for that in case it does happen.

Keep us up to date with everything mate and once you start to hit 150 yards with a 4 Iron off the deck I'd be happy to challenge you to a game :wink2:


----------



## turnera

Melrose8888 said:


> Lots of progress and boy, do I feel a better person!!
> 
> I'm going higher...


Please slow down on the new date. You're experiencing the exact same thing your wife felt with her lover. 

Never date someone more than twice a week for at least the first month. It keeps those pesky PEA (lust) chemicals from clouding up your brain and making you think you've never felt this good, you're on top of the world, there'll never be another love like this, etc.

It's fake. It's body chemicals from caveman days that kept the species going. The more often you see this woman, the harder you fall, whether it's the right person or not. But those 'feel good' feelings you're feeling from being around her so much? They don't last. Typically no more than 2 years, and then your body stops producing them. And then the lust is gone and you're wondering what you ever saw in this person and how you got yourself in this mess.


----------



## Evinrude58

Well, I'm glad you're dating. The starvation economics your mind was playing on you when the only person on the planet you thought you could live was leaving/--- it's not so darned bad when the supply increases by having a couple of other ladies you enjoy show interest.

The OM moved 60 mikes away?

Yeah, your STBXW is getting dumped in 6 months or less.
He's likely to convince his wife to stay if she's not careful.

Your wife will have a screwed up, sad life most likely. She is one of those people that can't be content.

You are doing well, and I think your self-assessment is accurate.

Glad to see you have made so much progress in your journey away from a huge poop-pile of pain. Sounds like you are still knee-deep, but are able to see clear to the land of normalcy again.

I think you're smart enough to keep from getting too emotionally hung up in the new gf. Enjoy it for what it is and if it becomes more, embrace it.

Good luck!


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Well done Melrose. As you know I know more about the POSOM and your situation and may I say to whole TAM forum here that she is DEFINITELY trading down in the looks, personality, fitness, attractiveness depts. Sounds funny I know (but if I were a woman, I would go for Melrose myself  ) - think Steve McQueen/Michael Fassbender versus Fester from the Addams family (I kid you not).
> 
> Melrose you are going to do so much better (your next gig is going to be younger, funnier, prettier and sexier - I promise) and unfortunately your stbxw will sorely regret her decision in time to come. Your boys will be fine as long as you are in their lives and (I have seen this play out before) will rebel against their mother when they are in their teens if she says anything disparaging about you. The POSOM will be long gone by then.
> 
> In the meantime the karma bus is headed their way.
> 
> Take care, protect you and yours and good luck with the dating.


Brilliant post lamancha! I literally burst out laughing at work - got some odd looks! I'll take that comparison any day and my goodness, Fester!!! Spot on!! :grin2:

Yep, I can see clearly now, this is a mess for her and my boys will have the security they need forever.

Really, really excited about my future. I've been stuck in a rut for far too long.

Load up that bus....


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> The wheels turn mate and they slowly turn towards your favour, your future, with resilience, endeavour and yes being in tune with your honesty and feelings will work better for you and new bird in the long run.
> I'm glad to hear you're getting your act together mate. Trailer is unhooking and you're leaving the morally bankrupt fire damaged stock behind in the trailer, the decree absolute will be the final uncoupling.
> Putting youre kids needs first will only reap rewards for you in the long run and they are lucky to have a stable pappie in their corner. I know you'll keep on with that as it's who your are.
> 
> Good on you kiddo.
> 
> Things are still very recent in terms of the shock of everything, I whole heartedly agree with advice given to us that it'll take 1-3 years perhaps to get back to a sense of normality, but why put your life in to hiatus if you feel that you're ready to go dating?
> It's your life mate and as long as you check in with yourself I see no problem, IMHO it certainly helped me move on faster to the zero fudges given stage.
> 
> With STBXW keep everything on an absolute down-low, only respond when absolutely necessary - and no more snooping !
> Dealing with an abusive ex necessitates absolute minimal contact - oh and when you do have contact keep everything documented mate. when this go to pot for STBX and it's very likely to in future you need to be prepared for that in case it does happen.
> 
> Keep us up to date with everything mate and once you start to hit 150 yards with a 4 Iron off the deck I'd be happy to challenge you to a game :wink2:


Great words and advice, as usual, Danny.

The stability the boys have on my side, me taking on the house and being there for them whenever they needed me, especially after D-day and over Xmas, will allow me to look back and feel proud of what I did.

Yes, it will take many ups and downs before we are fully free but you are spot on, a new interest, someone who understands parenting and that we all have baggage, is just what a needed to add a splash of perspective (that and the fact she is VERY high drive!!). ;0)

Stopping the snooping is something I'd ideally do immediately but the reality is, without it, I would have read his letter last night, blown my fuse, got solicitors involved and this would have been a whole lot worse. In the past, it allowed me to see that ex was over me and forced me into action to get D done ASAP. So it serves its purpose and I hope there is no need for me to go there again but the option will be left open (until she eventually changes her password, I guess!!).

I do need to update my journal on boys and the timeline on what games she has been playing - thanks for the prompt.

Challenge accepted; loser buys the Guinness afterwards!


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> Well, I'm glad you're dating. The starvation economics your mind was playing on you when the only person on the planet you thought you could live was leaving/--- it's not so darned bad when the supply increases by having a couple of other ladies you enjoy show interest.
> 
> The OM moved 60 mikes away?
> 
> Yeah, your STBXW is getting dumped in 6 months or less.
> He's likely to convince his wife to stay if she's not careful.
> 
> Your wife will have a screwed up, sad life most likely. She is one of those people that can't be content.
> 
> You are doing well, and I think your self-assessment is accurate.
> 
> Glad to see you have made so much progress in your journey away from a huge poop-pile of pain. Sounds like you are still knee-deep, but are able to see clear to the land of normalcy again.
> 
> I think you're smart enough to keep from getting too emotionally hung up in the new gf. Enjoy it for what it is and if it becomes more, embrace it.
> 
> Good luck!


Yes, very good to have a lovely distraction but certainly taking it slowly and with eyes open!

POSOM is moving and ex will be living there with him, when she doesn't have kids and commuting back down to work. Big flag that she will try to move boys in future, so on guard. 1% chance OMW will take him back but she is done from what I can tell and is dating (a lot!) too.

Their relationship will either be another year max or forever but by then, I really won't give a flying...


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose..... I knew you would feel better informing the WW. The thing me, and others, feared was if

she reacted in a way that set you back a month or two. In your case, that did not happen. 

Job well done Mrose! On the dating.... I'm glad you waited. These feelings you are having for her

are exact opposite of what WW was showing you BUT are the exact same as what WW showed you when

you and her first met. As ooey and gooey it may make you feel.... it's all the pattern.

As I scrolled down to post, I saw Turnera commented. I already know what it is about, and

she is exactly right. My only difference is "date" more often than she suggests. But when I say date,

do activities, talk, learn about each other.... sure make out like teenagers but stop there.... at

least for a few weeks. If you didn't have any strange since DDay... the first time, you are going to

feel ten feet tall and bulletproof. And no where near 50k feet.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Great words and advice, as usual, Danny.
> 
> The stability the boys have on my side, me taking on the house and being there for them whenever they needed me, especially after D-day and over Xmas, will allow me to look back and feel proud of what I did.
> 
> Yes, it will take many ups and downs before we are fully free but you are spot on, a new interest, someone who understands parenting and that we all have baggage, is just what a needed to add a splash of perspective (that and the fact she is VERY high drive!!). ;0)
> 
> Stopping the snooping is something I'd ideally do immediately but the reality is, without it, I would have read his letter last night, blown my fuse, got solicitors involved and this would have been a whole lot worse. In the past, it allowed me to see that ex was over me and forced me into action to get D done ASAP. So it serves its purpose and I hope there is no need for me to go there again but the option will be left open (until she eventually changes her password, I guess!!).
> 
> I do need to update my journal on boys and the timeline on what games she has been playing - thanks for the prompt.
> 
> Challenge accepted; loser buys the Guinness afterwards!


If you still have the letter, don't open it, send it to your solicitor.


----------



## Melrose8888

​


MattMatt said:


> If you still have the letter, don't open it, send it to your solicitor.


It's sitting, unopened, in my study drawer. Not even vaguely interested in opening it.
Probably a decent idea to send it to solicitor so he has it if swift action is required in the future. Let's hope not.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Melrose..... I knew you would feel better informing the WW. The thing me, and others, feared was if
> 
> she reacted in a way that set you back a month or two. In your case, that did not happen.
> 
> Job well done Mrose! On the dating.... I'm glad you waited. These feelings you are having for her
> 
> are exact opposite of what WW was showing you BUT are the exact same as what WW showed you when
> 
> you and her first met. As ooey and gooey it may make you feel.... it's all the pattern.
> 
> As I scrolled down to post, I saw Turnera commented. I already know what it is about, and
> 
> she is exactly right. My only difference is "date" more often than she suggests. But when I say date,
> 
> do activities, talk, learn about each other.... sure make out like teenagers but stop there.... at
> 
> least for a few weeks. If you didn't have any strange since DDay... the first time, you are going to
> 
> feel ten feet tall and bulletproof. And no where near 50k feet.


Cheers Chuck. Couldn't have done it without you guys and gals!

Ha! I never stopped 'there' even as a teenager!! I was enjoying the perks of girls from the age of 14...
But you are right, the sexual tension is flattering but I'm under no illusions. I'm a good catch. Going to make sure I take my time.


----------



## bandit.45

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES THE ABSURDITY IN ALL THIS? 

It's like kids passing notes in high school. 

Becky is mad at Tom because he took Suzy to the Harvest Dance instead of her. So Becky passes a note to Robert to pass to Kenny to tell Tom not to ask her on anymore dates because she hates Suzy and wants her to walk in front of a cement truck. Then Suzy gets word of the note and spikes Becky's Juicy Juice with Ecstasy at the Prom, and then Becky strips naked and pulls a train with the football team. Well Tom hears about this and is so angry at Suzy that he writes her a letter and gives it to Pam to give to Suzy telling her he never wants to see her again... unless she wears that little strapless number she had on at the Harvest Dance...and...

Melrose...divorce the slag and move on. Knock off all this tit-for-tat crap! There is nothing you can do now to keep the ex and this guy from shacking up. All this silly game-playing is beneath you.


----------



## Melrose8888

bandit.45 said:


> AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES THE ABSURDITY IN ALL THIS?
> 
> It's like kids passing notes in high school.
> 
> Becky is mad at Tom because he took Suzy to the Harvest Dance instead of her. So Becky passes a note to Robert to pass to Kenny to tell Tom not to ask her on anymore dates because she hates Suzy and wants her to walk in front of a cement truck. Then Suzy gets word of the note and spikes Becky's Juicy Juice with Ecstasy at the Prom, and then Becky strips naked and pulls a train with the football team. Well Tom hears about this and is so angry at Suzy that he writes her a letter and gives it to Pam to give to Suzy telling her he never wants to see her again... unless she wears that little strapless number she had on at the Harvest Dance...and...
> 
> Melrose...divorce the slag and move on. Knock off all this tit-for-tat crap! There is nothing you can do now to keep the ex and this guy from shacking up. All this silly game-playing is beneath you.


Yep. The whole thing is absurd. It's like a bad, straight to DVD, movie. But its the reality I'm in and sometimes you have to play the schoolyard games to keep the bullies away.

I agree, no further games. D is a matter of weeks away. I so take a little satisfaction in pissing the POSOM off, as I bet he would love to have 'got' to me through that letter but I ain't going to read it!


----------



## SunCMars

*Deidre* said:


> What makes you think that the OBS doesn't know? She might, and she might just be choosing to stay. Not every betrayed spouse leaves, and what would be interesting, is if they don't get divorced, and your wife always stays his secret. And then, she'll come back to you...crying and apologizing...but you'll have moved on.
> 
> If I was a fortune teller, this would be my prediction.  (seriously, I think this likely will happen, considering that he hasn't filed for divorce)
> 
> *Stay strong, hope things get better.*


Hope things will get better...

A likely thing THIS...

From *Bitter to Better to Butter *on Melba Toast, on English Muffins...eaten' in bed.

Delivered with morning coffee.... from the new Missus. 

From Mrs. Melrose II. That sweet women of fine breeding, fine lines, soft voice and soft skin. 

Aye..


----------



## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> Anyone got some 2x4 handy?
> 
> *My birthday today* and I am surprised how it has impacted me.


Happy belated birthday.. I am a few days behind on your post...your plight. Your mostly polite post.

*How old are you again?*
................................................................................................................................

2 x 4's are for wooden heads...the affinity thing. Wood slammed into wood.

Keep your sense of humor. It goes numb when depression opens up under your feet; takes you down so low you cannot see the light.


----------



## Melrose8888

SunCMars said:


> Happy belated birthday.. I am a few days behind on your post...your plight. Your mostly polite post.
> 
> *How old are you again?*
> ................................................................................................................................
> 
> 2 x 4's are for wooden heads...the affinity thing. Wood slammed into wood.
> 
> Keep your sense of humor. It goes numb when depression opens up under your feet; takes you down so low you cannot see the light.


Honoured to have SunCMars posting lyrical support on my thread!

I've just turned 39, so I have 350+ days before my MLC kicks in!! :grin2:


----------



## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> Cheers Chuck. Couldn't have done it without you guys and gals!
> 
> Ha! I never stopped 'there' even as a teenager!! I was enjoying the perks of girls from the age of 14...
> But you are right, the sexual tension is flattering but I'm under no illusions. *I'm a good catch. Going to make sure I take my time.*


A good catch.

I cheat.....I do.
...............................................................................




I cheat when I fish.
I have a fish finder on my boat. It shows "fish down there". It gives a hint to size, but not much else.

And "that there" lie-eth the problema. Those women down there are looking through your glass bottom boat.

What are they lookin' at?

Your bottom...your bum. Uh,huh one of the things women take interest in.
Your bottom, specifically your wallet. Is is slim? Or stuffed with cash? Or stuffed with debt?
Your bottom line...what do you own?

Your face. Is it an honest one? Or is he a gob smacker? A liar with a crooked smile.
Your face. What can he deliver to my flat? My "now" flat life. Will the bloke puff me up? Make me a pretty bird, and me alone?
.......................................................................................................................................................................
To the point, Bates, what is the upshot, the gist here?

Some ladies, will jump on your hook.

Or, in your haste, you will snag an eel on the pull up.
.......................................................................................................................................................................

Be polite to every last one of them, pull them into your boat and sample them. Sniff them. 
Stroke their fins. Stretch them out flat in the Sun and admire their form.

But throw the ones who do not meet your standards back in. Do not harm them.
The next fisherman who catches them needs them in pristine condition.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> Yep. The whole thing is absurd. It's like a bad, straight to DVD, movie. But its the reality I'm in and sometimes you have to play the schoolyard games to keep the bullies away.
> 
> I agree, no further games. D is a matter of weeks away. I so take a little satisfaction in pissing the POSOM off, as I bet he would love to have 'got' to me through that letter but I ain't going to read it!


You're an English man fighting a war in an English court with a female judge (am I correct?). The court isn't going to give a twiddle about what you want. British courts have repeatedly gone with the dictum that it is the mothers who are the only ones capable of giving the kids a stable home, and fathers are just there to provide money. British Courts don't give a crap about fathers' rights. 

You need to be steeling yourself to expect the worst.


----------



## Evinrude58

I really and truly would have a huge problem getting married and having kids in the U.K., after witnessing what happens in court to Dads that get divorced. It's even worse than the U.S., which is also pretty screwed up.
I'm worried for you, too, Melrose.
Really....
Those U.K. courts are brutal on men.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Cheers Chuck. Couldn't have done it without you guys and gals!
> 
> Ha! I never stopped 'there' even as a teenager!! I was enjoying the perks of girls from the age of 14...
> But you are right, the sexual tension is flattering but I'm under no illusions. I'm a good catch. Going to make sure I take my time.


Cheers Chuck? Sorry, but I immediately thought of the late and great Cilla Black! 
via Imgflip Meme Generator


----------



## Melrose8888

No court / judge sessions here, all agreed outside of court, in mediation and the only thing I have asked a judge to do (aside from granting me the allowance to D) is to seal the agreement that I have a clean break from her financially and that I am handed the deeds to the house, after paying her cheating ass off. That is the part that is 2 weeks away but doesn't require any attendance or discussions in court, all done behind closed doors by 1 judge alone.

Now, if the STBXW decides she wants to try and go against our mediation agreement of 50/50 custody and move the children to POSOM's new home town, then I will have to go down the court route but that will be separate to D and the financial settlement.

That is a horrid battle but one I will be fully prepared for and one I WILL win. (remember, I have the text proof that she drunk drive, was staying in hotels with POSOM instead of being at home with kids, used work time and resources to further her affair, got promotion and pay-rise from boss, got letter from POSOM harassing me...the list is long!)

Let's all hope it doesn't come to that. though, hey?


----------



## Danny4133

Stay positive son,
Dark doesn't need more dark, be good be happy be content knowing you have that moral compass the boys so desperately lack from POS ex.

Document still in case. Insist on comms that are written. Keep close to teachers etc.

Positivity breeds positivity. 

Lesson for us all chap


----------



## rockon

After reading numerous stories on TAM and other sources about the horrific divorce laws in Great Briton, why in the hell would any man even *consider* getting married.


----------



## bandit.45

MattMatt said:


> Cheers Chuck? Sorry, but I immediately thought of the late and great Cilla Black!
> via Imgflip Meme Generator












Damn are those her real teeth? Does her husband use a bit and bridle when they have sex?


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> You're an English man fighting a war in an English court with a female judge (am I correct?). The court isn't going to give a twiddle about what you want. British courts have repeatedly gone with the dictum that it is the mothers who are the only ones capable of giving the kids a stable home, and fathers are just there to provide money. British Courts don't give a crap about fathers' rights.
> 
> You need to be steeling yourself to expect the worst.


M-Rose..... you were going to inform WW regardless of what we said. Totally get that.

Now you did 'n wished you didn't. Dust yourself off, learn from it. Make sure it is a one-time thing.

Unbe did something similar to this and he regretted it later. All about learning.

-Does one ride bike for fun or just not to fall-

Notice what Danny's STBXW pulled as the D final date neared. Expect similar with yours.

Bet your asp your STBXW has asked multitudes of Brit females who are already D how the final

outcome goes. From what I hear.... unGodly slanted towards the female. STBXWs friends are

cheering her on, D him, take everything! As I and others have told you / Danny never be over confident.

I use Darth Vader as an example, Return of the Jedi.... he always thought he could whip 

Luke's asp... until.... he couldn't. One more example.... Rocky Balboa. Rocky won the belt. Why?

He was hungry, he had that fire. Until he won the title..... then he rested on his fame and Clubber Lang

came along and beat Rocky down. Rocky and Vader under estimated.... 

If anyone should be over confident, it should be your STBXW. You M-rose are Rocky in Rocky I.


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Damn are those her real teeth? Does her husband use a bit and bridle when they have sex?


This is a younger Cilla


----------



## azteca1986

bandit.45 said:


> You're an English man fighting a war in an English court with a female judge (am I correct?). The court isn't going to give a twiddle about what you want. British courts have repeatedly gone with the dictum that it is the mothers who are the only ones capable of giving the kids a stable home, and fathers are just there to provide money. British Courts don't give a crap about fathers' rights.
> 
> You need to be steeling yourself to expect the worst.


I've noticed you often post these scare stories, bandit. Your data is a bit out of date. You are correct that courts in England and Wales, Scotland and Northen Ireland (there's no "British Courts") "don't give a crap about father' rights" as such a thing does not exist:

*Key principles of Children and Families Act 2014:
*
The paramountcy principle: The child’s welfare is the paramount consideration. All considerations other than what is considered to be in the child’s best interest are secondary. 

Parental responsibility: This states that parents will have *equal* and enduring parental responsibility for their child before and after separation.

https://fnf.org.uk/law-information-2/the-law/what-does-the-law-say

Today a father who is determined to have 50/50 custody is more likely to get it as the law is on his side. That's why we like Equality on this side of the pond.


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> Cheers Chuck? Sorry, but I immediately thought of the late and great Cilla Black!
> via Imgflip Meme Generator


This is more to my liking.....


----------



## SunCMars

rockon said:


> After reading numerous stories on TAM and other sources about the horrific divorce laws in Great Briton, why in the hell would any man even *consider* getting married.


Hah!

For the same reasons everywhere on this Blue Green ball........... that we silly-ly fly around the Solar System on. 

Women have what we want. 

If one "special" lady has the goods on loan to us.....and on temporary terms and then she threatens to close the two legged gate on our amorous deeds, we sign the contract.

We do not want some other interloper priming the pump. We get jealous and possessive.

That is why God gave us ShortHairs....so women can get ahold of us. Trying to break free hurts too much. Those hairs have long tendrils, long roots.
The roots are connected to our heart strings, our rash-button [hidden under the belly button] and our go-nuts danglers.

Uh, huhhhh!


----------



## inging

A handy guide to British people 
British men are taught from an early age how to deal with rudeness..

*Normal polite mode*

Sorry
Excuse me 
Thankyou. Thankyou. Thankyou ( minimum required to buy a bottle of milk)
If you would possibly, when it is convenient, and you are not too busy.

Slightly Miffed

If you don't mind 
Oh really 
I am a little cross about this


Full Miffed

*SILENCE*
*[*]Hard Stare*


*Where Melrose is..*

*Upset*



100 year war
Invade your country and plunder it
Wage unending, patient, and relentless terrorism.
Get the children to burn on a efigie of man, every year, who tried to blow up parliament 400 years ago.

The British have still not forgiven the French for invading! Those Normans! 1066


----------



## Chuck71

inging said:


> A handy guide to British people
> British men are taught from an early age how to deal with rudeness..
> 
> *Normal polite mode*
> 
> Sorry
> Excuse me
> Thankyou. Thankyou. Thankyou ( minimum required to buy a bottle of milk)
> If you would possibly, when it is convenient, and you are not too busy.
> 
> Slightly Miffed
> 
> If you don't mind
> Oh really
> I am a little cross about this
> 
> 
> Full Miffed
> 
> *SILENCE*
> *[*]Hard Stare*
> 
> 
> *Where Melrose is..*
> 
> *Upset*
> 
> 
> 
> 100 year war
> Invade your country and plunder it
> Wage unending, patient, and relentless terrorism.
> Get the children to burn on a efigie of man, every year, who tried to blow up parliament 400 years ago.
> 
> The British have still not forgiven the French for invading! Those Normans! 1066


Left out IDGAF


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, what a difference a woman makes! Had 4th date with the new lady in my life, drinks out in town, came back to mine and I cooked dinner, I had the best 'first night' sex I've ever had in my life... Really made me realise what passion I had been missing and that I accepted my last few years as 'normal'.

She is on the same page as me; busy single parent, lots of work, lots of friends, lots of her own interests and she knows we can only see each other once a week at most. Although she would like that to be more, she is really content and I feel the balance is just perfect for me right now. I have made a commitment to her, especially after the infidelity I suffered, I want to be a decent guy and not mess her about.

If it doesn't feel like it is working out between us long term, we both said we would call it and we'd know that we've had a good time and that we've both enhanced each others lives. I told her, I don't want to change her, nor to control her, she must be herself (and I, myself) and if that doesn't work, then no biggie.

It is possible she is a very close match and I guess it is that that worries me a little. I've only had a handful of dates, so to think I am comfortable already seems a little too early / too good to be true. I am taking it steady and have never been this honest and open this early in a relationship but strangely, that honesty seems to spur her on even more!

In terms of the ex - was considering posting the content of my letter to her and the STBXW response on here, would it be useful for other BS to see what I did / said and how she responded? I dunno. Maybe I should just park all that now...


----------



## Affaircare

@Melrose8888, 

I think some other BS's might benefit from seeing what you did/said and how she responded, but I have to be honest--I suspect more BS would benefit from seeing that there comes a point in a person's life "post-affair" when you turn a corner and the whole world doesn't revolve around "the affair" or "the divorce" anymore. 

Regarding the new lady in your life, and your fear that you've only had a handful of dates but it's going to well--here's my thought. For right now it is a GIGANTIC confidence booster. For right now, you are not committing to her for a lifetime--you're just committing to dating one woman at a time! It sounds like you lucked out and ran into a good woman -- so maybe you just learned something from your previous marriage about how to choose a more healthy love interest. It sounds like she came along at the right time for her and for you -- so maybe you just knew you were ready to at least give it a try and she knew she was ready as well. And finally it sounds like neither of you is pushing or rushing but rather being honest and getting to know each other -- so maybe you just are the type of person who enjoys the companionship of another human. 

I don't hear "warning bells" or wedding bells either! I hear what sounds like a nice time getting to know another person and letting her get to know you. And honestly I think MORE BS's wold benefit from that then from "the exchange."


----------



## Evinrude58

Yep.....

Betrayed spouses only need to see that it's possible to be happy again after having one's life utterly destroyed by the person they loved most. That's it's possible not to think about the WS and be miserable. That someone will come along and make you forget the WS ever existed.

Letters to wayward spouses do nothing but reinforce the idea of a WS that they are something special to be receiving all that attention.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, what a difference a woman makes! Had 4th date with the new lady in my life, drinks out in town, came back to mine and I cooked dinner, I had the best 'first night' sex I've ever had in my life... Really made me realise what passion I had been missing and that I accepted my last few years as 'normal'.
> 
> She is on the same page as me; busy single parent, lots of work, lots of friends, lots of her own interests and she knows we can only see each other once a week at most. Although she would like that to be more, she is really content and I feel the balance is just perfect for me right now. I have made a commitment to her, especially after the infidelity I suffered, I want to be a decent guy and not mess her about.
> 
> If it doesn't feel like it is working out between us long term, we both said we would call it and we'd know that we've had a good time and that we've both enhanced each others lives. I told her, I don't want to change her, nor to control her, she must be herself (and I, myself) and if that doesn't work, then no biggie.
> 
> It is possible she is a very close match and I guess it is that that worries me a little. I've only had a handful of dates, so to think I am comfortable already seems a little too early / too good to be true. I am taking it steady and have never been this honest and open this early in a relationship but strangely, that honesty seems to spur her on even more!
> 
> In terms of the ex - was considering posting the content of my letter to her and the STBXW response on here, would it be useful for other BS to see what I did / said and how she responded? I dunno. Maybe I should just park all that now...


----------



## Melrose8888

More advice for the BS: So from the positive moments in my new life, back to earth with a trigger.

Sat in traffic this morning in my home town and STBXW & POSOM pull alongside me, both sitting in his Discovery, on their way to work together, smiling smugly at me. Took all my strength not to flip them the bird.

This still makes me mad, they are now quite happy to travel and arrive at work together (everyone is so happy they have found love in the last few weeks after both going through terrible divorces - pah!) after spending a night together.

It's the unfairness. That is my wife he has taken. That is the POSOM that reduced my time with my young sons by 50%. They get away with it and are having the time of their life. Not fair. Angry. Upset. Rage. Frustration.

I guess it shows I'm not quite as far forward as I had hoped and that these things do really take years to recover from.


----------



## manfromlamancha

You need to time their departures and next time you make sure that you have (pick one of the following):


a really sexy bird in a tight outfit hanging on your neck as you drive by;

two really sexy birds in tight outfits hanging on your neck as you drive by;

OBS (his stbxw) hanging on your neck as you drive by.

As I said they will get theirs soon. She is not going to be this happy same time next year - whereas you ….. you will be knee deep in poonani! (I try and keep up with the younger set)


----------



## eric1

Lose sleep over people you care about, not two random *******s.


----------



## Satya

Just ignore. 
It's a waste of your energy.


----------



## MattMatt

eric1 said:


> Lose sleep over people you care about, not two random *******s.


If they were genuinely two random *******s, your would have a point.

But they are not random individuals, they are two cheaters who have destroyed two families.


----------



## Melrose8888

MattMatt said:


> If they were genuinely two random *******s, your would have a point.
> 
> But they are not random individuals, they are two cheaters who have destroyed two families.


Exactly. I have to co-parent with this ***** for 13+ years...its going to be difficult to ignore her driving round my home town with the guy who groomed her for 9 months.

Just wait until he starts driving my kids around, in the front seat, without a car seat - that is when this **** will really start to get difficult...


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose, I dont operate by any given set of rules - make sure that when they get older, your sons know, in casual talk and also with other friends around that it is a generally accepted fact that the guy is a [email protected] and a ****wit. Don't make it sound like you are targeting him - just that it is as accepted as the moon going round the earth etc. Have others back you up with yeah we know that. Your sons will tend to avoid him and maybe even poke fun at him as they get older (I have seen this work really well). Other may tell you not to involve your sons in this, but all is fair in love and kids. It will unfortunately reflect badly on your WW but c'est la vie!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> More advice for the BS: So from the positive moments in my new life, back to earth with a trigger.
> 
> Sat in traffic this morning in my home town and STBXW & POSOM pull alongside me, both sitting in his Discovery, on their way to work together, smiling smugly at me. Took all my strength not to flip them the bird.
> 
> This still makes me mad, they are now quite happy to travel and arrive at work together (everyone is so happy they have found love in the last few weeks after both going through terrible divorces - pah!) after spending a night together.
> 
> It's the unfairness. That is my wife he has taken. That is the POSOM that reduced my time with my young sons by 50%. They get away with it and are having the time of their life. Not fair. Angry. Upset. Rage. Frustration.
> 
> I guess it shows I'm not quite as far forward as I had hoped and that these things do really take years to recover from.


Go back and re-read my 'lil story about running into my 1st love and her H (1994). 1st love was "The One"

in my eyes for several years. Notice what happened in the years after that meeting.....

In that story, you are me.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Exactly. I have to co-parent with this ***** for 13+ years...its going to be difficult to ignore her driving round my home town with the guy who groomed her for 9 months.
> 
> Just wait until he starts driving my kids around, in the front seat, without a car seat - that is when this **** will really start to get difficult...


You keep acting like they're going to be together for 87 years. The chances of them lasting over

a year or two are the same as me crossing the Atlantic, re-forming the band Glass Tiger,

turning them into a metal band, and going on tour with Iron Maiden.


----------



## Yeswecan

Melrose8888 said:


> Sat in traffic this morning in my home town and STBXW & POSOM pull alongside me, both sitting in his Discovery, on their way to work together, smiling smugly at me. Took all my strength not to flip them the bird.
> 
> This still makes me mad, they are now quite happy to travel and arrive at work together (everyone is so happy they have found love in the last few weeks after both going through terrible divorces - pah!) after spending a night together.


Yeah...today they are happy on the way to work. Tomorrow either one will be b!tching at each other about the reality of life. It's coming trust me. Realize the land of rainbow farting unicorns has it's sh!tty days/weeks of storm and turmoil. Realize people do not change their stripes. This relationship will last up to the point of the new skirt that just walked in the office to begin her career. Your STBXW will have the same crappy attitude she had with you with the POSOM before long. 

Every dog has his day! 

Concentrate on you and your child. Happiness will come.


----------



## eric1

MattMatt said:


> If they were genuinely two random *******s, your would have a point.
> 
> But they are not random individuals, they are two cheaters who have destroyed two families.


I disagree completely. People only have as much hold over your life as you allow them to. 

He'll obviously need to have a co-parenting relationship with her. It's also obvious that she is not the optimal parent for either to parent or coparent, but effective people deal with reality rather than ideal. 

Also by removing emptional from the equation it'll allow him to co-parent more successfully. 

She's just a piece of dirt. Why dedicate even one iota of brain cell to caring who she is with. Easier said than done, but with some work he can get there.


----------



## Danny4133

I'm with you on this Eric, something is only of value to us if we let it be so. 

POS EX was of value to us when we thought they had a moral compass, character, respect, and so many other things that the shape shifting [email protected] lack so dearly.

Melrose, I suggest you practice something called Reframing. Being from the UK like I, you'll know who Paul McKenna is. He has lots of award winning shows and books on self help techniques. 

Paul McKenna: Make life better in a week! | Express Yourself | Comment | Express.co.uk

Have a check of the above link and a root around on Google. 

Think if you never had kids with POS EX and knew what you now know about her. Would you value her? Respect her? Think you could change her? You'd form a fast and I dare say accurate picture of her. 

There is no magic formula to getting to that place where you not only see her for who she is but accept it as well. Honestly POS could've been anyone, she is broken, she can not be fixed and sits in the same cheater group as mine. No morals, no guilt, no remorse. A lowlife. It's crap that you have to coparent with someone like this but hey, you 

Get to that place you will, the place where you look at her and you see her. I mean really see her for the first time ever. And no matter what she says or does you will have zero fuuks given. 

You are heading the right way doing all the right things. If you can get contact down to emails and texts and maybe once every two weeks or so. If you can take a diffrent route to work do it. 

Attatching value to her is effort, it's work and it's thoughts that will be better spent on looking after you, looking after your boys and doing things with your new bird. Better spent on planning ahead for a future for you and your boys, because that's the reality and it'll be a good one. 

Keep working, detaching is not linear it takes time. The lack of guilt, remorse all of that makes a great catalyst and motivator to steam ahead.


----------



## turnera

Melrose8888 said:


> Exactly. I have to co-parent with this ***** for 13+ years...its going to be difficult to ignore her driving round my home town with the guy who groomed her for 9 months.
> 
> Just wait until he starts driving my kids around, in the front seat, without a car seat - that is when this **** will really start to get difficult...


You know, I'm a really stubborn person. And vindictive. If I was left single with kids and having to deal with what you describe, I'd probably devote about 25% of my time to following up - and making certain peoples' lives miserable. Just for fun.

But only 25%.


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> I'm with you on this Eric, something is only of value to us if we let it be so.
> 
> POS EX was of value to us when we thought they had a moral compass, character, respect, and so many other things that the shape shifting [email protected] lack so dearly.
> 
> Melrose, I suggest you practice something called Reframing. Being from the UK like I, you'll know who Paul McKenna is. He has lots of award winning shows and books on self help techniques.
> 
> Paul McKenna: Make life better in a week! | Express Yourself | Comment | Express.co.uk
> 
> Have a check of the above link and a root around on Google.
> 
> Think if you never had kids with POS EX and knew what you now know about her. Would you value her? Respect her? Think you could change her? You'd form a fast and I dare say accurate picture of her.
> 
> There is no magic formula to getting to that place where you not only see her for who she is but accept it as well. Honestly POS could've been anyone, she is broken, she can not be fixed and sits in the same cheater group as mine. No morals, no guilt, no remorse. A lowlife. It's crap that you have to coparent with someone like this but hey, you
> 
> Get to that place you will, the place where you look at her and you see her. I mean really see her for the first time ever. And no matter what she says or does you will have zero fuuks given.
> 
> You are heading the right way doing all the right things. If you can get contact down to emails and texts and maybe once every two weeks or so. If you can take a diffrent route to work do it.
> 
> Attatching value to her is effort, it's work and it's thoughts that will be better spent on looking after you, looking after your boys and doing things with your new bird. Better spent on planning ahead for a future for you and your boys, because that's the reality and it'll be a good one.
> 
> Keep working, detaching is not linear it takes time. The lack of guilt, remorse all of that makes a great catalyst and motivator to steam ahead.


Thanks, Danny, will certainly read up on this. I am generally a much more positive person now but I guess the natural fear of the unknown and the protectiveness of my children, makes it difficult to reframe every situation into a positive. I can see no positives at all about POSOM being in their lives, as he is such a self obsessed and self serving POS with no moral compass and a complete lack of empathy. Power has gone to his and the STBXW head and they are a mess - it's difficult to sit back and watch that.

Case in point, she has the cheek to ask me to advance £1k of the divorce settlement so she can pay for the boys holiday in August, when the boys tell me she just got a new sofa bed, she went on holiday with POSOM and they are off to gigs / spending weekends away. This and she takes home £3.5k a month!!!

Sorry, rant over.

Good advice and I am certainly spending less time thinking about them each day and comms are already at the minimum you suggest (letter had to be done but no more things like that).

The karma bus (with a little help from some others - hey, lamancha?) will hopefully arrive and take care of these cheaters, when I'm not even looking / caring.


----------



## Melrose8888

turnera said:


> You know, I'm a really stubborn person. And vindictive. If I was left single with kids and having to deal with what you describe, I'd probably devote about 25% of my time to following up - and making certain peoples' lives miserable. Just for fun.
> 
> But only 25%.


Yep, I'm the same but learning / trying to let it go. It's the unfairness of it all that I get stuck on but then, life isn't fair, hey?

Interestingly, once her new house is sorted, the OMW has suggested she has many, many ways to hurt him and will gladly help me support in justice. It may well be that I don't care by then but if I do, it is a good option!


----------



## Melrose8888

Affaircare said:


> @Melrose8888,
> 
> I think some other BS's might benefit from seeing what you did/said and how she responded, but I have to be honest--I suspect more BS would benefit from seeing that there comes a point in a person's life "post-affair" when you turn a corner and the whole world doesn't revolve around "the affair" or "the divorce" anymore.
> 
> Regarding the new lady in your life, and your fear that you've only had a handful of dates but it's going to well--here's my thought. For right now it is a GIGANTIC confidence booster. For right now, you are not committing to her for a lifetime--you're just committing to dating one woman at a time! It sounds like you lucked out and ran into a good woman -- so maybe you just learned something from your previous marriage about how to choose a more healthy love interest. It sounds like she came along at the right time for her and for you -- so maybe you just knew you were ready to at least give it a try and she knew she was ready as well. And finally it sounds like neither of you is pushing or rushing but rather being honest and getting to know each other -- so maybe you just are the type of person who enjoys the companionship of another human.
> 
> I don't hear "warning bells" or wedding bells either! I hear what sounds like a nice time getting to know another person and letting her get to know you. And honestly I think MORE BS's wold benefit from that then from "the exchange."


Thanks Affaircare. It's been difficult leaving the affair part behind but I was always aware that I didn't want to overplay the victim. I guess one of the difficult things is because I chose not to carry out mass exposure (concerns over UK law and what happened to sidsnot) not many people know she is having an affair with her boss. That means, when people I haven't seen for a while ask what happened, I tell the story and the pain comes back. Only a little pain these days but still difficult.

I have enjoyed the confidence boost and the sex is amazing (even allowing for PET boosts!). She is also a BS and we have spoken about her past trust issues already but we've been so open, I can tell she is fine with me (as she should be) but there is an undertone of insecurity there, so just want to keep an eye on that. But you're right, this is just two single people getting together to share some good times. If a long way down the track this works out as something more, then great but I'm good for now.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Melrose8888 said:


> Exactly. I have to co-parent with this ***** for 13+ years...its going to be difficult to ignore her driving round my home town with the guy who groomed her for 9 months.
> 
> Just wait until he starts driving my kids around, in the front seat, without a car seat - that is when this **** will really start to get difficult...


I did it for 16 and it is only as difficult as you make it. No, it isn't hard at all unless you keep worrying about her life. You know like saying he groomed her when, she made an adult decision with an adult mind.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> Case in point, *she has the cheek to ask me to advance £1k of the divorce settlement so she can pay for the boys holiday in August, *when the boys tell me she just got a new sofa bed, she went on holiday with POSOM and they are off to gigs / spending weekends away. This and she takes home £3.5k a month!!!


And?

Are you going to?


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> And?
> 
> Are you going to?


 @Melrose8888 says:-


----------



## manfromlamancha

Stay strong Melrose - the karma bus is starting to strike as we speak - his name is mud at the IoD (Institute of Directors) and unfortunately (or fortunately) your stbxw has been painted to be a weak-minded floozie who has been promoted beyond her capability and should not be handling the change programs she has been put in charge of.

This is just the beginning. I now need to get to the Project Management boards and let them know about the low-life.

Take care.


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Stay strong Melrose - the karma bus is starting to strike as we speak - his name is mud at the IoD (Institute of Directors) and unfortunately (or fortunately) your stbxw has been painted to be a weak-minded floozie who has been promoted beyond her capability and should not be handling the change programs she has been put in charge of.
> 
> This is just the beginning. I now need to get to the Project Management boards and let them know about the low-life.
> 
> Take care.


Great timing, lamancha, had a bit of a wobble today, bit low and need to keep focus on the end goal. This reminds me of what they've done and how I'm better off away from these POS cheaters.

Thanks for your support, it much appreciated. Some may disagree with revenge but there are consequences to actions and I need this for my personal progression towards recovery.

I'd like to think I can get through this quicker than most but reality is, as everyone tells me, this takes years.

Keep me updated!!


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> Great timing, lamancha, had a bit of a wobble today, bit low and need to keep focus on the end goal. This reminds me of what they've done and how I'm better off away from these POS cheaters.
> 
> Thanks for your support, it much appreciated. Some may disagree with revenge but there are consequences to actions and I need this for my personal progression towards recovery.
> 
> I'd like to think I can get through this quicker than most but reality is, as everyone tells me, this takes years.
> 
> Keep me updated!!


For sure Melrose. I certainly am not one who doesn't agree with revenge! I get angry just reading your post let alone knowing who the [email protected] is. And as for your "wife", she is not the first to be this feeble minded and she certainly will not be the last. Unfortunately it will take you years, one of the "rewards" for being a good'un. But stay strong, revenge or not your future is going to be bright and it really is good that she showed you who she is now rather than later.


----------



## MattMatt

manfromlamancha said:


> For sure Melrose. I certainly am not one who doesn't agree with revenge! I get angry just reading your post let alone knowing who the [email protected] is. And as for your "wife", she is not the first to be this feeble minded and she certainly will not be the last. Unfortunately it will take you years, one of the "rewards" for being a good'un. But stay strong, revenge or not your future is going to be bright and it really is good that she showed you who she is now rather than later.


It's not revenge. It is the natural consequences of their actions.

It's like what happens after someone touch an electric fence, even though they knew what would happen


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> , eve
> It's not revenge. It is the natural consequences of their actions.
> 
> It's like what happens after someone touch an electric fence, even though they knew what would happen
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9CXSYGiAUw


Get
a
Hobby


----------



## MattMatt

Chuck71 said:


> Get
> a
> Hobby


I have several.

That is only one of them.


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> I have several.
> 
> That is only one of them.


That was NOT meant for you


----------



## bandit.45

MattMatt said:


> It's not revenge. It is the natural consequences of their actions.
> 
> It's like what happens after someone touch an electric fence, even though they knew what would happen
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9CXSYGiAUw


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha :rofl:


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi all - Busy couple of weeks, had a lads golf weekend away, where old colleagues and distant friends were very supportive and understanding, having heard my news through other friends. Great time in lovely weather and I finished 4th and got some prize money to help pay for the beer and whisky!

Also popped into to see my parents, sister also came round for dinner and had a very open and honest conversation with them all, about happiness etc. and what I am discussing in counselling sessions. They were a little take back to hear me talk so frankly about my childhood and how they have impacted my relationships and how I am as a father. Again, felt good to be open and honest.

Had a weekend away with the new GF, actually jumped on a flight to France for a long weekend – amazing food, wine and sex. I felt a little overwhelmed towards the end but she sensed this and we’ve had a good chat, she has backed off and has been very reassuring about what she expects out of our relationship. So refreshing after many years of terrible communication / listening (and, let’s face it, sex!) in my marriage. Had a major scare with her Monday (a few hours when she had convinced me that she was pregnant!!!!) but it was a very (in hindsight) amusing mix up…lesson learnt though!

This left me in a bit of a reflective mood, I'm concerned I'm not ready for any type of relationship. My head knows the Divorce is for the best but my heart is taking time to catch up and I don’t think I’m over the ex yet. That said, if GF is OK with this (we have spoken about it and she says she is) then I think why not let myself go a little and see what can happen??

As I told boys and STBXW about my GF, I have noted a slight ramp up in comms from the ex, any opportunity to email, message or send pictures (especially whilst I was away this weekend) was taken by her. Amusing to note but doesn’t change anything as far as I am concerned. I’m trying to keep NC going but lots of things around the boys to discuss and the divorce, so I took the opportunity to tell her that I’ll never be comfortable with POSOM, so, she may as well introduce the boys to him, providing the boys want to and also providing we discuss exactly how he is to be involved . I suggested that he should not be sleeping over with them for 6 months and that I have first refusal on pickups, sports clubs etc., if she can’t make it and was thinking POSOM can step in. I have to trust that he will be a long term partner and that he will treat my boys with respect, if nothing more than out of respect for his relationship with my ex.

Spoke to OMW last night too. PSOSOM is still dragging my name through the mud, calling me names, suggesting I am still out to hurt him (no idea what he mean, hey @manfromlamancha ?!), accusing me of delaying the divorce and purposely delaying when I sent ex the money as agreed!! I strongly suspect he spammed my email too – I am very careful when I use the address but recently have received 100s of spam (ED, debt, marriage, divorce, dating websites etc.). OMW tells me this is his style of ‘revenge’ and she too has had spam like this. He really is a nasty piece of work. TBH, it sounds as though they have major cash flow problems, he is in debt and they are still going out on dates and holidays together, yet she asks me to advance the divorce cash for the boys summer holiday!!

Just chased my solicitor on whether they have heard back from court on my financial consent order. If that is OK, it’ll be 2 weeks until divorce and I’ll take on the house and pay the POSXW a huge lump sum. Painful but a price worth paying to move forwards.

Still have some bad moments, triggers from songs, thoughts of how my life map could still be achieved etc. but I do snap back quicker to reality and the reminder of how broken and emotionally stunted the ex is.

One month until my charity work for WaterAid, at Glastonbury (a major UK music and Arts festival) and I cannot wait!!!

Melrose – rising so much higher, each day


----------



## turnera

Good progress. Two thoughts.

One, take it slow with GF. You yourself have reservations, so the only reason now to 'ramp it up' would be to get more warm fuzzies from being with her, and you know all about how warm fuzzies (PEA chemicals) cause people to act NOT in their best interests. IIWY, I wouldn't be talking to her more than twice a week, wouldn't be seeing her more than twice a month, at least for the next few months. You have to process the divorce finalization, and that shouldn't be muddled or masked with warm fuzzies; you need to hash it out, feel what you need to feel about it, and move on with certainty. THEN you may be ready to ramp it up.

Two, your stbx is going to blow through your wife's lump sum payment. IIWY, I would get your lawyer to put some kind of language in the divorce decree that, if she becomes unable to AFFORD raising her own kids through lack of money after you've given her the lump sum, then custody goes to you. I'm sure he can figure out how to word that. But what's going to happen is that she is going to run out of money fast, and then she will become some sort of godzilla trying to eke out every last cent from you for this, that, and the other. It's going to be a MISERABLE next year or two until things settle out again, if you don't protect yourself legally from this. If you get custody if she becomes insolvent, then she has no right nor reason to come after you for money just for herself.


----------



## Chuck71

turnera said:


> Good progress. Two thoughts.
> 
> One, take it slow with GF. You yourself have reservations, so the only reason now to 'ramp it up' would be to get more warm fuzzies from being with her, and you know all about how warm fuzzies (PEA chemicals) cause people to act NOT in their best interests. IIWY, I wouldn't be talking to her more than twice a week, wouldn't be seeing her more than twice a month, at least for the next few months. You have to process the divorce finalization, and that shouldn't be muddled or masked with warm fuzzies; you need to hash it out, feel what you need to feel about it, and move on with certainty. THEN you may be ready to ramp it up.
> 
> Two, your stbx is going to blow through your wife's lump sum payment. IIWY, I would get your lawyer to put some kind of language in the divorce decree that, if she becomes unable to AFFORD raising her own kids through lack of money after you've given her the lump sum, then custody goes to you. I'm sure he can figure out how to word that. But what's going to happen is that she is going to run out of money fast, and then she will become some sort of godzilla trying to eke out every last cent from you for this, that, and the other. It's going to be a MISERABLE next year or two until things settle out again, if you don't protect yourself legally from this. If you get custody if she becomes insolvent, then she has no right nor reason to come after you for money just for herself.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: Wise words. Melrose.... as for the g/f.... use PROTECTION.

Last thing you need now is another curtain climber. I estimate your WW is supporting POSOM

as he whispers -i wuvs yous- in her ear. She is eyeing the cash payout at the D. Their "love affair" will come

to a screeching end when the money runs out. Whiskey always flows when the cash is on the table.

It would not surprise me for OM to screw her out of the settlement money to bail his own arse

out of debt. Well... that's HER problem, not yours. As Turnera stated, get it written in D that you

receive sole custody if she becomes unfit. If it unfolds as I see it.... your WW will turn into a stalker 

and stir sheet with OM and his wife. Might want to give her a heads up. Oh.... and she will try to

do anything in her power to get you back. I am 110% certain. But recall... when she comes after you,

you were not a choice, you were the last man standing.

Oh..... her sending you pics, messages.... she already knows she F'ed up.... but will not admit it...

yet. Pride goeth before the fall.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> As I told boys and STBXW about my GF, I have noted a slight ramp up in comms from the ex, any opportunity to email, message or send pictures (especially whilst I was away this weekend) was taken by her. Amusing to note but doesn’t change anything as far as I am concerned. I’m trying to keep NC going but lots of things around the boys to discuss and the divorce, so I took the opportunity to tell her that I’ll never be comfortable with POSOM, so, she may as well introduce the boys to him, providing the boys want to and also providing we discuss exactly how he is to be involved . I suggested that he should not be sleeping over with them for 6 months and that I have first refusal on pickups, sports clubs etc., if she can’t make it and was thinking POSOM can step in. I have to trust that he will be a long term partner and that he will treat my boys with respect, if nothing more than out of respect for his relationship with my ex.
> 
> Yep, let her/it go
> 
> Spoke to OMW last night too. PSOSOM is still dragging my name through the mud, calling me names, suggesting I am still out to hurt him (no idea what he mean, hey @manfromlamancha ?!), accusing me of delaying the divorce and purposely delaying when I sent ex the money as agreed!! I strongly suspect he spammed my email too – I am very careful when I use the address but recently have received 100s of spam (ED, debt, marriage, divorce, dating websites etc.). OMW tells me this is his style of ‘revenge’ and she too has had spam like this. He really is a nasty piece of work. TBH, it sounds as though they have major cash flow problems, he is in debt and they are still going out on dates and holidays together, yet she asks me to advance the divorce cash for the boys summer holiday!!
> 
> Once he burns through her money the crap will hit the fan. You need to be fully detached!!! Don't worry about him. Everyone probably knows him for who he is
> 
> Just chased my solicitor on whether they have heard back from court on my financial consent order. If that is OK, it’ll be 2 weeks until divorce and I’ll take on the house and pay the POSXW a huge lump sum. Painful but a price worth paying to move forwards.
> 
> Don't look back at this train wreck
> 
> Still have some bad moments, triggers from songs, thoughts of how my life map could still be achieved etc. but I do snap back quicker to reality and the reminder of how broken and emotionally stunted the ex is.
> 
> One month until my charity work for WaterAid, at Glastonbury (a major UK music and Arts festival) and I cannot wait!!!
> 
> Melrose – rising so much higher, each day


You're on the right track now. Hard 180!!!!!!!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose...... I know you think we're crazy but we have seen this play out time and time again. It's virtually

scripted. As Marc said, you must be 110% detached. Her fall will be of epic proportion.

My XW fell a LONG way down..... and even though I was LMFAO at her fall from grace, a small part 

of me did feel sorry for her. But she made her bed, now she must lay in it.

You still love who the WW "WAS," and I get that. I will always love who my XW "WAS," but these two

women are dead. They're not coming back. When a WW is in a free fall... they will pull you down

with them. I've seen it on these boards numerous times and in real life. Give her exactly what

she thinks she wants. Sit back, pop popcorn and watch it fall faster than Rome in 476

(Rome actually was a disaster by 411 but that's just the history buff talking)


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose, 

Go get yourself snipped. You have a lot of screwing to catch up on and you don't need to bring any more dependents into this world.


----------



## Melrose8888

turnera said:


> Good progress. Two thoughts.
> 
> One, take it slow with GF. You yourself have reservations, so the only reason now to 'ramp it up' would be to get more warm fuzzies from being with her, and you know all about how warm fuzzies (PEA chemicals) cause people to act NOT in their best interests. IIWY, I wouldn't be talking to her more than twice a week, wouldn't be seeing her more than twice a month, at least for the next few months. You have to process the divorce finalization, and that shouldn't be muddled or masked with warm fuzzies; you need to hash it out, feel what you need to feel about it, and move on with certainty. THEN you may be ready to ramp it up.
> 
> Two, your stbx is going to blow through your wife's lump sum payment. IIWY, I would get your lawyer to put some kind of language in the divorce decree that, if she becomes unable to AFFORD raising her own kids through lack of money after you've given her the lump sum, then custody goes to you. I'm sure he can figure out how to word that. But what's going to happen is that she is going to run out of money fast, and then she will become some sort of godzilla trying to eke out every last cent from you for this, that, and the other. It's going to be a MISERABLE next year or two until things settle out again, if you don't protect yourself legally from this. If you get custody if she becomes insolvent, then she has no right nor reason to come after you for money just for herself.


Good suggestions @turnera thanks. I think they twice a week calling and twice a month meeting is exactly what we agreed we would do but then got a bit ‘excited’ early on. I have high hopes but quite right, the finalisation of the divorce is bound to have an impact on me – couldn’t guess how right now…

So, I’ve been clever and adamant that we have a clean financial break, that means zero come back for either of us, so if she goes on to earn £120k a year, I cannot (and would not want) a penny of it. Conversely, if it all goes tits up for her, she cannot come back and claim an extra penny off me. I also, a la Danny, have the log of the boys since D-day and will confidently go into any discussions about the boys, with the aim to take on full custody, should ANY opportunity arise to do that.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree: Wise words. Melrose.... as for the g/f.... use PROTECTION.
> 
> Last thing you need now is another curtain climber. I estimate your WW is supporting POSOM
> 
> as he whispers -i wuvs yous- in her ear. She is eyeing the cash payout at the D. Their "love affair" will come
> 
> to a screeching end when the money runs out. Whiskey always flows when the cash is on the table.
> 
> It would not surprise me for OM to screw her out of the settlement money to bail his own arse
> 
> out of debt. Well... that's HER problem, not yours. As Turnera stated, get it written in D that you
> 
> receive sole custody if she becomes unfit. If it unfolds as I see it.... your WW will turn into a stalker
> 
> and stir sheet with OM and his wife. Might want to give her a heads up. Oh.... and she will try to
> 
> do anything in her power to get you back. I am 110% certain. But recall... when she comes after you,
> 
> you were not a choice, you were the last man standing.
> 
> Oh..... her sending you pics, messages.... she already knows she F'ed up.... but will not admit it...
> 
> yet. Pride goeth before the fall.


She is using birth control but better safe than sorry, I suppose!

I too suspect he is using her for emotional kibbles and also financial gain / allowing him to fund a lifestyle of CIO. OMW is very clear on what might happen, she fully expects POSOM to be crawling back to her within 6 to 12 months – she says “no!” to that. OMW is more concerned with my ex meeting her 14yo daughter – she is afraid she’ll lose her. What I learnt from her last night astounded me – she hasn’t told her kids what POSOM has done, she rug swept it to ‘protect’ them!! I had strong words to tel her she cannot lie to her kids but she wasn’t keen to tell them.

I don’t think she does think she F-d up. As a back-up plan, she always maintained we’d be better off apart, POSOM or no POSOM, so she had convinced everyone she didn’t leave me for him, so even if this goes wrong, she’ll claim it’s for the best. And you know what? She’s right!!!

Popcorn is on stand by though…


----------



## Melrose8888

bandit.45 said:


> Melrose,
> 
> Go get yourself snipped. You have a lot of screwing to catch up on and you don't need to bring any more dependents into this world.


What are you trying to insinuate Bandit?! :grin2:


----------



## badmemory

Melrose8888 said:


> If that is OK, it’ll be 2 weeks until divorce and I’ll take on the house and pay the POSXW a huge lump sum. Painful but a price worth paying to move forwards.


Melrose,

I'm sure you've heard the old adage - "Do you know why divorce costs so much?"


----------



## turnera

Melrose8888 said:


> she hasn’t told her kids what POSOM has done, she rug swept it to ‘protect’ them!! I had strong words to tel her she cannot lie to her kids but she wasn’t keen to tell them.


Tell her about me. My mom also didn't tell me the truth. And dad sure as hell didn't. So I 'knew' what I saw: a dad who complained that my mom didn't treat him well enough so he had to leave and get 'better'; a mom who fell into work and then a bottle; that men have all the power and women have to suck it up and be 'good enough' to keep a man around. So that's how I lived my life: gave the man all the power, kept my mouth shut so he wouldn't leave me like my dad did, and went from depression to depression.

It wasn't until I 50(!) that my mom told me the truth - that yes, he'd cheated and yes, he wanted her to quit her job and be a SAHM. But that after about 6 months, he'd realized he wasn't any better than all the other divorced dads out there and he COULDN'T get any better, and he begged her to take him back. _And she refused._

All my life, I'd thought women had no power. But she CHOSE to give up a cheating ba$tard and live on her own because it was what she wanted. 

If I had known that one little thing - that she didn't share so as to protect me and to not make him look bad - it would have changed my entire life.

PS: I was 12 when he left.


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Melrose,
> 
> Go get yourself snipped. You have a lot of screwing to catch up on and you don't need to bring any more dependents into this world.


And frozen peas do help.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> She is using birth control but better safe than sorry, I suppose!
> 
> I too suspect he is using her for emotional kibbles and also financial gain / allowing him to fund a lifestyle of CIO. OMW is very clear on what might happen, she fully expects POSOM to be crawling back to her within 6 to 12 months – she says “no!” to that. OMW is more concerned with my ex meeting her 14yo daughter – she is afraid she’ll lose her. What I learnt from her last night astounded me – she hasn’t told her kids what POSOM has done, she rug swept it to ‘protect’ them!! I had strong words to tel her she cannot lie to her kids but she wasn’t keen to tell them.
> *
> I don’t think she does think she F-d up. As a back-up plan, she always maintained we’d be better off apart, POSOM or no POSOM, so she had convinced everyone she didn’t leave me for him, so even if this goes wrong, she’ll claim it’s for the best. And you know what? She’s right!!!*
> 
> Popcorn is on stand by though…


When she tells herself a lie long enough, she actually starts to believe it.


----------



## Chuck71

turnera said:


> Tell her about me. My mom also didn't tell me the truth. And dad sure as hell didn't. So I 'knew' what I saw: a dad who complained that my mom didn't treat him well enough so he had to leave and get 'better'; a mom who fell into work and then a bottle; that men have all the power and women have to suck it up and be 'good enough' to keep a man around. So that's how I lived my life: gave the man all the power, kept my mouth shut so he wouldn't leave me like my dad did, and went from depression to depression.
> 
> It wasn't until I 50(!) that my mom told me the truth - that yes, he'd cheated and yes, he wanted her to quit her job and be a SAHM. But that after about 6 months, he'd realized he wasn't any better than all the other divorced dads out there and he COULDN'T get any better, and he begged her to take him back. _And she refused._
> 
> All my life, I'd thought women had no power. But she CHOSE to give up a cheating ba$tard and live on her own because it was what she wanted.
> 
> If I had known that one little thing - that she didn't share so as to protect me and to not make him look bad - it would have changed my entire life.
> 
> PS: I was 12 when he left.


Frame this...... this is gospel


----------



## Melrose8888

Damn it.

No point trying to fool myself, it's been a tough few days, fake it until you make it, only works so far. It never really helps your heart catch up with your head.

I don't know if it's the cooling off of my new relationship, the fact that D is a 2 weeks away or that I'm taking on the house and the fear that goes with that but I am triggering every hour and cannot get STBXW out of my head.

It doesn't matter that you guys come on and tell me to remind myself who the ex really is, I still have visions of the future with her and my boys - the life map that I just can't seem to let go / get over. Any tips from anyone on that?

There isn't even a remote hint of this and I am strong enough to keep NC going but I have to admit, if she came round with her tail between her legs (or the infamous long coat with nothing on) I would really struggle to turn her away. Why the hell would I even be thinking like that???

It's particularly odd because I have the boys for 9 nights, have loads lined up for all of us, seeing friends, work is busy, weather is amazing, GF is still keen....

Sigh.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Melrose, cut yourself some slack....your still not over the grieving process, the wounds are still fresh, your heart is broken not so much from her transgressions now, as from what could have been for the future. It takes time, be patiences with yourself, you should take time to be by yourself and grieve. In every relationship there is always who carries more of the weight of that relationship then the other, and clearly in this case it is you, so don't force it, let it out but try to do it at a certain time, like when the boys are in bed...or before they wake out....this way you can learn to handle it the rest of the day.


----------



## Danny4133

Mate don't be too hard on yourself, you know what this is?............. Grieving 

Recovery and moving on isn't a linear movement, it takes time, back forwards, up, down, happy, sad. All of that. 

Trust me on this one as I'm on the same train as you at the moment. It's not fun, but it's necessary.....so many clichés, time, this too shall pass, but they are all on the money. 

Just when you wake up and think the sky is blue and you hear the birds again a tune will come on the radio and it triggers you. 
My response when that happens to give the V sign to the stereo and shout out a big F you several times over, followed by many other expletives that list what my STBXW is. It's good, it soaks out the poison. 
I remind myself that at 34 I've a whole load of life to crack onwards with my two girls, as you with your boys. We will not be beaten! 

There are times when I'm sitting still, no sound, nobody about and I feel a little heavy, and its ok. It doesn't last too long, but as I say I accept that, it's fine, it's ok and we gave a lot to these POS, more than they ever deserved or give us back. 
Thankful that we can turn this around to someone worthy, someone who appreciates us, our kids, our family, our birds, but most importantly ourselves. Be good to yourself, take the time out, chill, relax and be gentle too. It's hard, fooking hard mate, there is no doubt about it. But one day it wont be, just remember that. 

I accept these feelings and let it ride for a while, but I don't let it engulf me, nope, and neither should you. It's ok to grieve but don't ever think you're not a strong MF because you are.

There is no magic wand here and no obvious sign or way to predict when you're over this, but you know what, that's ok as well. 
You should be ok with feeling like this, you should accept that you will still feel this way every so often.

It's the good man and good pappie you are that keeps those embers burning still, but eventually they will extinguish mate, they will.

We all have regrets, we all wish things could of been different but when you get to the end of the tracks and it's our time to check out from these parts I guarantee if you could hit the rewind button and pause back at this point it's highly likely you'd tell you're current self - 

"be a little gentle on yourself and not to devote so much energy to your STBXW's bull ******"

Because good things will happen, just because things are a little difficult now and then - this will indeed pass, it will and you know it. 
And you'll be ever more grateful for it when good things come along because you were sitting in the valley at times and the work - the endeavour to work though these dark periods and strengthen yourself will make the feeling ever more rewarding.

Enjoy the Bank Holiday weekend, I hope you have some plans, maybe a pint or two and the FA cup final. Come on you gunners !


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Damn it.
> 
> No point trying to fool myself, it's been a tough few days, fake it until you make it, only works so far. It never really helps your heart catch up with your head.
> 
> I don't know if it's the cooling off of my new relationship, the fact that D is a 2 weeks away or that I'm taking on the house and the fear that goes with that but I am triggering every hour and cannot get STBXW out of my head.
> 
> It doesn't matter that you guys come on and tell me to remind myself who the ex really is, I still have visions of the future with her and my boys - the life map that I just can't seem to let go / get over. Any tips from anyone on that?
> 
> There isn't even a remote hint of this and I am strong enough to keep NC going but I have to admit, if she came round with her tail between her legs (or the infamous long coat with nothing on) I would really struggle to turn her away. Why the hell would I even be thinking like that???
> 
> It's particularly odd because I have the boys for 9 nights, have loads lined up for all of us, seeing friends, work is busy, weather is amazing, GF is still keen....
> 
> Sigh.


M'Rose....... Calm down..... this is 110% normal.. Like you said, your life was mapped out, all

the way down to you growing old together and baby sitting your grandkids. Everyone has triggers.

He!! even I did almost three years after DDay (VH-1 showed a Best of SNL... that was in the 

background when everything came down, same episode) and we had no kids, nothing to really fight

over, and I'm an expert at going ice cold once I turn the corner. So don't feel down.... you want back

what she WAS and will never again be. You have a hard time letting certain things go, nothing wrong

with that.... but let's say you took her back...... 6-9 months later after you are vagina bombed into

submission, resentment will set in. But after you take her back.... well.... ya can't exactly

bust her chops over your triggers... accepting her back makes the future triggers 110% on YOU.

Now... go read "NewPhoenix5" thread. His WW cheated on him 3-4 years ago and he took her

back and is utterly miserable. I worry about him... I worry about his health. Stress / hypertension.

If you were sitting across the table from me... I'd say follow through with the D no matter what.

IF..... she crawled back with croc tears, date her, bang her, but for the love of Green Stamps...

DO NOT re-marry her. M'Rose... I don't cheat, if I want out, I say bye-bye. That gives me the right

to say cheating is a deal breaker for me... I wouldn't care if we had 14 kids together. Pop told me if I ride

my bike near the busy intersection, he was going to whip my arse. I rode it there.... pop whipped

my arse. I will walk the F away from a female if she cheats. Consequences.... 

Men like familiarity.... you're comfortable with a woman you know, even though WW is gut-slime

you would not fear for your kids safety if she had them by herself a few days...... but you would any

with any other female (you date). We guys.... we don't like the unknown. If we can plan / map it 

out, no surprises. As a former public school teacher, I can attest to having to do lesson

plans (full model ones are asinine, condensed are recommended) and 99.9% of the time,

your full plan never goes as how you scripted it. Same thing with life.

Popism.... Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react towards it.

Hang in there Melrose


----------



## Chuck71

Lostinthought61 said:


> Melrose, cut yourself some slack....your still not over the grieving process, the wounds are still fresh, your heart is broken not so much from her transgressions now, as from *what could have been* for the future. It takes time, be patiences with yourself, you should take time to be by yourself and grieve. In every relationship there is always who carries more of the weight of that relationship then the other, and clearly in this case it is you, so don't force it, let it out but try to do it at a certain time, like when the boys are in bed...or before they wake out....this way you can learn to handle it the rest of the day.


Exactly and well-stated. Melrose.... below is the song that got me through many rough nights in

the first part of my wait for D. This was before I "stepped into the light/Tao."






lol and I don't care for country music......


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 Treat it like this, if you can:- https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> Mate don't be too hard on yourself, you know what this is?............. Grieving
> 
> Recovery and moving on isn't a linear movement, it takes time, back forwards, up, down, happy, sad. All of that.
> 
> Trust me on this one as I'm on the same train as you at the moment. It's not fun, but it's necessary.....so many clichés, time, this too shall pass, but they are all on the money.
> 
> Just when you wake up and think the sky is blue and you hear the birds again a tune will come on the radio and it triggers you.
> My response when that happens to give the V sign to the stereo and shout out a big F you several times over, followed by many other expletives that list what my STBXW is. It's good, it soaks out the poison.
> I remind myself that at 34 I've a whole load of life to crack onwards with my two girls, as you with your boys. We will not be beaten!
> 
> There are times when I'm sitting still, no sound, nobody about and I feel a little heavy, and its ok. It doesn't last too long, but as I say I accept that, it's fine, it's ok and we gave a lot to these POS, more than they ever deserved or give us back.
> Thankful that we can turn this around to someone worthy, someone who appreciates us, our kids, our family, our birds, but most importantly ourselves. Be good to yourself, take the time out, chill, relax and be gentle too. It's hard, fooking hard mate, there is no doubt about it. But one day it wont be, just remember that.
> 
> I accept these feelings and let it ride for a while, but I don't let it engulf me, nope, and neither should you. It's ok to grieve but don't ever think you're not a strong MF because you are.
> 
> There is no magic wand here and no obvious sign or way to predict when you're over this, but you know what, that's ok as well.
> You should be ok with feeling like this, you should accept that you will still feel this way every so often.
> 
> It's the good man and good pappie you are that keeps those embers burning still, but eventually they will extinguish mate, they will.
> 
> We all have regrets, we all wish things could of been different but when you get to the end of the tracks and it's our time to check out from these parts I guarantee if you could hit the rewind button and pause back at this point it's highly likely you'd tell you're current self -
> 
> "be a little gentle on yourself and not to devote so much energy to your STBXW's bull ******"
> 
> Because good things will happen, just because things are a little difficult now and then - this will indeed pass, it will and you know it.
> And you'll be ever more grateful for it when good things come along because you were sitting in the valley at times and the work - the endeavour to work though these dark periods and strengthen yourself will make the feeling ever more rewarding.
> 
> Enjoy the Bank Holiday weekend, I hope you have some plans, maybe a pint or two and the FA cup final. Come on you gunners !


Thanks Danny. Time. That old foe. Just keep singing Paula Abdul song, 2 steps forward...

I normally invoke a similar response to triggers and it's good to release. Just hope they become fewer and further between.

I'm already grateful for the improved things in my life. I guess part of it is feeling I am a better person, father and potential husband than I probably ever was and perhaps I feel it's a bit of a shame that I didn't manage to get to that place with the ex...

Had a crazy 20 minutes on Friday. Picking boys up, I had GF telling me she thinks I'm not over the ex and potentially in the relationship for wrong reasons (revenge!?). Then solicitor called me to tell me the consent order that I asked him to chase had been approved that afternoon! So that's it, clean financial break, I can complete and take on the house in my name and can apply for decree absolute!

So that's it. All over bar a piece of paper! Weird feeling with my new life overlapping with my old. I guess over next few days it will sink in and I can move on. Until he meets my boys and then a whole new world begins...

Still, for now, had a cracking boozy weekend in the sun with mates and all the boys played together nicely.

Things could be a lot worse and that is something to be thankful for.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Melrose8888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it.
> 
> No point trying to fool myself, it's been a tough few days, fake it until you make it, only works so far. It never really helps your heart catch up with your head.
> 
> I don't know if it's the cooling off of my new relationship, the fact that D is a 2 weeks away or that I'm taking on the house and the fear that goes with that but I am triggering every hour and cannot get STBXW out of my head.
> 
> It doesn't matter that you guys come on and tell me to remind myself who the ex really is, I still have visions of the future with her and my boys - the life map that I just can't seem to let go / get over. Any tips from anyone on that?
> 
> There isn't even a remote hint of this and I am strong enough to keep NC going but I have to admit, if she came round with her tail between her legs (or the infamous long coat with nothing on) I would really struggle to turn her away. Why the hell would I even be thinking like that???
> 
> It's particularly odd because I have the boys for 9 nights, have loads lined up for all of us, seeing friends, work is busy, weather is amazing, GF is still keen....
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> 
> 
> M'Rose....... Calm down..... this is 110% normal.. Like you said, your life was mapped out, all
> 
> the way down to you growing old together and baby sitting your grandkids. Everyone has triggers.
> 
> He!! even I did almost three years after DDay (VH-1 showed a Best of SNL... that was in the
> 
> background when everything came down, same episode) and we had no kids, nothing to really fight
> 
> over, and I'm an expert at going ice cold once I turn the corner. So don't feel down.... you want back
> 
> what she WAS and will never again be. You have a hard time letting certain things go, nothing wrong
> 
> with that.... but let's say you took her back...... 6-9 months later after you are vagina bombed into
> 
> submission, resentment will set in. But after you take her back.... well.... ya can't exactly
> 
> bust her chops over your triggers... accepting her back makes the future triggers 110% on YOU.
> 
> Now... go read "NewPhoenix5" thread. His WW cheated on him 3-4 years ago and he took her
> 
> back and is utterly miserable. I worry about him... I worry about his health. Stress / hypertension.
> 
> If you were sitting across the table from me... I'd say follow through with the D no matter what.
> 
> IF..... she crawled back with croc tears, date her, bang her, but for the love of Green Stamps...
> 
> DO NOT re-marry her. M'Rose... I don't cheat, if I want out, I say bye-bye. That gives me the right
> 
> to say cheating is a deal breaker for me... I wouldn't care if we had 14 kids together. Pop told me if I ride
> 
> my bike near the busy intersection, he was going to whip my arse. I rode it there.... pop whipped
> 
> my arse. I will walk the F away from a female if she cheats. Consequences....
> 
> Men like familiarity.... you're comfortable with a woman you know, even though WW is gut-slime
> 
> you would not fear for your kids safety if she had them by herself a few days...... but you would any
> 
> with any other female (you date). We guys.... we don't like the unknown. If we can plan / map it
> 
> out, no surprises. As a former public school teacher, I can attest to having to do lesson
> 
> plans (full model ones are asinine, condensed are recommended) and 99.9% of the time,
> 
> your full plan never goes as how you scripted it. Same thing with life.
> 
> Popism.... Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react towards it.
> 
> Hang in there Melrose
Click to expand...

Spot on as usual Chuck. I think I just like the idea of her coming back but I know it would end badly. Probably just me looking to get control of the situation I guess.

That is a huge positive GF actually, I would trust her 100% with my kids already!

I think the planning part is something I need to tone down but I enter into every relationship fully committed and expect it to be long term. Perhaps I need to change that attitude without it affecting my ability to make them feel secure.

Question for the gang. Do all women want to be adored? Because that is what POSOM did to win ex and that is what my GF wants. Can I offer that? Do I have to offer that?!


----------



## Marc878

Some things you should notice. 

The sun cones up in the mornings and the world didn't end did it? Just because your STBXW left. 

For your future think of it this way. You maybe better off with her gone. If you learn from it and make your life what you want rather than sitting back just taking what life gives you.

If you're smart you'll go as dark as you can with the X. She's not your problem now.

It's really all up to you and no one else.


----------



## sidney2718

Melrose8888 said:


> Spot on as usual Chuck. I think I just like the idea of her coming back but I know it would end badly. Probably just me looking to get control of the situation I guess.
> 
> That is a huge positive GF actually, I would trust her 100% with my kids already!
> 
> I think the planning part is something I need to tone down but I enter into every relationship fully committed and expect it to be long term. Perhaps I need to change that attitude without it affecting my ability to make them feel secure.
> 
> Question for the gang. Do all women want to be adored? Because that is what POSOM did to win ex and that is what my GF wants. Can I offer that? Do I have to offer that?!


Be a bit careful of forming new serious relationships this early. Rebound relationships don't have a great success record.

As for being adored, of course women want to be adored. So do men.


----------



## Melrose8888

sidney2718 said:


> Be a bit careful of forming new serious relationships this early. Rebound relationships don't have a great success record.
> 
> As for being adored, of course women want to be adored. So do men.


I guess that depends on the definition of success. I think this is where I have an opportunity to reframe, perhaps a few months with someone new can be deemed as a success, to be what we both need, for a while?

I think if you genuinely do adore someone, that will show through naturally. If you have to say and do what the other person wants, that would feel forced and just playing a game? This is where I struggle a bit with his needs, her needs - surely it should be natural to meet those needs? I'm not adverse to working in my relationships but surely too much effort shows you aren't fully compatible??


----------



## Satya

Melrose8888 said:


> I still have visions of the future with her and my boys - the life map that I just can't seem to let go / get over. Any tips from anyone on that?


Yes, as often as you need, picture in your mind, the image of that future flying out of an open window. 

Then imagine yourself shutting the window.

This is what I did, the morning I knew my marriage and future life was over. I kept imagining that image in my head, whenever I was nostalgic or sad. Life will and can be OK, as long as you take control of the things you can and should, and let go of those things you cannot.


----------



## Thor

Melrose8888 said:


> I think if you genuinely do adore someone, that will show through naturally. If you have to say and do what the other person wants, that would feel forced and just playing a game? This is where I struggle a bit with his needs, her needs - surely it should be natural to meet those needs? I'm not adverse to working in my relationships but surely too much effort shows you aren't fully compatible??


Have you read "5 Love Languages"? While we might genuinely adore somebody, our life experiences may not have taught us how to interact with the other person in a way which they receive the same message we are trying to send. Iow, they don't feel adored by us. We may not understand their needs naturally because we don't have those same needs.

I believe though that we genuinely make the effort to meet those needs even when doing so doesn't tickle us the same way. We get fulfillment out of knowing we have done something the other person likes. When we do something to get something, that is when it is not genuine and won't last.


----------



## turnera

Melrose, I've been reading back through the past couple days' of posts and at every post I've wanted to stop and reply that you are in NO condition to have a girlfriend. It isn't fair to her. I'm sorry, but it's not. You are using her to make YOURSELF feel better and SHE knows it. She even told you so. The fact that you fear you'd take your wife back if she just apologized? Jeez. That you're still asking how to get over her?

I'm sure I told you this way back when, but you're in no condition to be dating. You need to learn to be ok ALONE. You need to learn that you can survive alone. You need to look forward to being alone. Why? Because that will mean you are no longer needy. Everything you post reeks of codependency and neediness. You don't want to 'have to' adore your girlfriend? Good grief.

Take some time off. Some serious time off, with NO woman in your life. Give this girlfriend a break and let her off easy(easier) now, rather than later, after she's invested too much time.


----------



## sidney2718

Melrose8888 said:


> I guess that depends on the definition of success. I think this is where I have an opportunity to reframe, perhaps a few months with someone new can be deemed as a success, to be what we both need, for a while?
> 
> I think if you genuinely do adore someone, that will show through naturally. If you have to say and do what the other person wants, that would feel forced and just playing a game? This is where I struggle a bit with his needs, her needs - surely it should be natural to meet those needs? I'm not adverse to working in my relationships but surely too much effort shows you aren't fully compatible??


You are not wrong. But there is a lot of room between saying "I adore you" and saying nothing. And of course that's the problem. Hitting the right amount is sometimes very difficult.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Melrose, I've been reading back through the past couple days' of posts and at every post I've wanted to stop and reply that you are in NO condition to have a girlfriend. It isn't fair to her. I'm sorry, but it's not. You are using her to make YOURSELF feel better and SHE knows it. She even told you so. The fact that you fear you'd take your wife back if she just apologized? Jeez. That you're still asking how to get over her?
> 
> I'm sure I told you this way back when, but you're in no condition to be dating. You need to learn to be ok ALONE. You need to learn that you can survive alone. You need to look forward to being alone. Why? Because that will mean you are no longer needy. Everything you post reeks of codependency and neediness. You don't want to 'have to' adore your girlfriend? Good grief.
> 
> Take some time off. Some serious time off, with NO woman in your life. Give this girlfriend a break and let her off easy(easier) now, rather than later, after she's invested too much time.


I would agree, but with the caveat that he is not in the condition to have a *serious* girlfriend. 

I think its fine if he has several "girlfriends" or wants to hook up with the occasional lady for some impromptu lovin'. Just nothing serious for now.


----------



## turnera

I agree. Several is fine. Steady is not.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> Question for the gang. Do all women want to be adored? Because that is what POSOM did to win ex and that is what my GF wants. Can I offer that? Do I have to offer that?!


Waywards of either gender crave validation above all else.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

GusPolinski said:


> Waywards of either gender crave validation above all else.


 Nature of the beast ,that's what creates them and makes them waywards. Too bad there's not a shot for that.


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> I would agree, but with the caveat that he is not in the condition to have a *serious* girlfriend.
> 
> I think its fine if he has several "girlfriends" or wants to hook up with the occasional lady for some impromptu lovin'. Just nothing serious for now.


If she love bombs you anywhere near how your wife did..... guess what?

My post-D tried it, I saw it a mile away. We still dated / lived together for a bit over a year.

It takes that long to realize.... even if you have your B+ / A- game. You have to bring your

A+ game, every day you can. A+ sees this.... and keeps you from wasting 12+ months with someone

who is not what you are seeking. A+ can see "bandaged people" from much farther off

than someone on their B+ / A- game.

I'm living proof. I should have ended things 6-9 months in. So I wasted time I can never get back.


----------



## Melrose8888

Lots still going on. House completes on Friday, should be a moment of celebration but bloody scary thinking I've just bought a house in my own...! Decree Absolute applied for, so days away from formal divorce. Very busy at work but that is enjoyable.

Ex was asking questions about the GF, what I'm doing, where I'm going etc. She asked for cash advance of divorce settlement for boys holiday again and also told me POSOM is meeting boys in a couple of weeks. I'm not fussed by any of it but miss my boys and don't like the idea of him fathering them at all but nothing I can do.

Had a chat with new GF Sunday, she was seeking​ validation again, fishing for compliments and then misconstrued things I said. More red flags than I was comfortable with. Then I denied her sexual advances (her son was in the house at the time and I wasn't comfortable) and this 'rejection' upset her. Left it until last night when told her I don't feel ready for a relationship, which she twisted in to me not liking her, not wanting her...etc. so, on reflection, a real shame. So many positives to be taken but I am pleased I was able to call it and not get blinded by the physical side and her generosity.

So single again which is probably just as well, lots of emotional hurdles to get over this month.

Don't feel that bad about anything though. Just a little tired from the whole process.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Lots still going on. House completes on Friday, should be a moment of celebration but bloody scary thinking I've just bought a house in my own...! Decree Absolute applied for, so days away from formal divorce. Very busy at work but that is enjoyable.
> 
> Ex was asking questions about the GF, what I'm doing, where I'm going etc. She asked for cash advance of divorce settlement for boys holiday again and also told me POSOM is meeting boys in a couple of weeks. I'm not fussed by any of it but miss my boys and don't like the idea of him fathering them at all but nothing I can do.
> 
> Had a chat with new GF Sunday, she was seeking​ validation again, fishing for compliments and then misconstrued things I said. More red flags than I was comfortable with. Then I denied her sexual advances (her son was in the house at the time and I wasn't comfortable) and this 'rejection' upset her. Left it until last night when told her I don't feel ready for a relationship, which she twisted in to me not liking her, not wanting her...etc. so, on reflection, a real shame. So many positives to be taken but I am pleased I was able to call it and not get blinded by the physical side and her generosity.
> 
> So single again which is probably just as well, lots of emotional hurdles to get over this month.
> 
> Don't feel that bad about anything though. Just a little tired from the whole process.


Getting rid of one over-entitled princess and replacing her with another over-entitled princess would have been a very bad idea.

Well done for avoiding that trap.


----------



## turnera

I have a great book for you to read while you're 'between' women: Getting The Love You Want, by Hendrix. Talks about why you're attracted to the people you choose, and what it has to do with your FOO.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Melrose please tell me you did no advance her the money....also you might want to reach out to POSOM and remind him that you are their father and he has no role with them. and if he lays a finger on them you will have the courts involved.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Lots still going on. House completes on Friday, should be a moment of celebration but bloody scary thinking I've just bought a house in my own...! Decree Absolute applied for, so days away from formal divorce. Very busy at work but that is enjoyable.
> 
> *Ex was asking questions about the GF, what I'm doing, where I'm going etc. She asked for cash advance of divorce settlement for boys holiday again and also told me POSOM is meeting boys in a couple of weeks. I'm not fussed by any of it but miss my boys and don't like the idea of him fathering them at all but nothing I can do.*
> 
> *Why are you engaging? This doesn't get you anything.*
> 
> Had a chat with new GF Sunday, she was seeking​ validation again, fishing for compliments and then misconstrued things I said. More red flags than I was comfortable with. Then I denied her sexual advances (her son was in the house at the time and I wasn't comfortable) and this 'rejection' upset her. Left it until last night when told her I don't feel ready for a relationship, which she twisted in to me not liking her, not wanting her...etc. so, on reflection, a real shame. So many positives to be taken but I am pleased I was able to call it and not get blinded by the physical side and her generosity.
> 
> So single again which is probably just as well, lots of emotional hurdles to get over this month.
> 
> Don't feel that bad about anything though. Just a little tired from the whole process.


The 180 works if you use it.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Lots still going on. House completes on Friday, should be a moment of celebration but bloody scary thinking I've just bought a house in my own...! Decree Absolute applied for, so days away from formal divorce. Very busy at work but that is enjoyable.
> 
> Ex was asking questions about the GF, what I'm doing, where I'm going etc. She asked for cash advance of divorce settlement for boys holiday again and also told me POSOM is meeting boys in a couple of weeks. I'm not fussed by any of it but miss my boys and don't like the idea of him fathering them at all but nothing I can do.
> 
> Had a chat with new GF Sunday, she was seeking​ validation again, fishing for compliments and then misconstrued things I said. More red flags than I was comfortable with. Then I denied her sexual advances (her son was in the house at the time and I wasn't comfortable) and this 'rejection' upset her. Left it until last night when told her I don't feel ready for a relationship, which she twisted in to me not liking her, not wanting her...etc. so, on reflection, a real shame. So many positives to be taken but I am pleased I was able to call it and not get blinded by the physical side and her generosity.
> 
> So single again which is probably just as well, lots of emotional hurdles to get over this month.
> 
> Don't feel that bad about anything though. Just a little tired from the whole process.


Sneak preview of things to come. When she did not think you were jumping through her hoops,

she hit panic mode and went desperation. Did she need to.... course not, but this was her default.

Any relationship is easy when sex is "on the brain." Always remember.... the female has to woo

you too. BTW... sex is a by-product of woo(ing) but not in its true form. Hard to separate those two

when you're 24. Now... much easier. Stay focused..... and on you. If someone comes your way

that rocks your world, you'll know it. "Love is like a fart... if you have to force it, it usually isn't real."

The money advance.... document the schit out of it but loan it. Get the D finalized. THEN you can

afford to be an arse towards her. As John Cougar sang some 35 years ago...... her walls are


----------



## Chuck71

Lostinthought61 said:


> Melrose please tell me you did no advance her the money....also you might want to reach out to POSOM and remind him that you are their father and he has no role with them. and if he lays a finger on them you will have the courts involved.


It will be deducted from future payouts. He is "wiggling easy until his head is out of the lion's mouth."

Getting over a D is pale in comparison to having to accept your kids will be around a POSOM 50%

of the time. This POSOM will not be long term, she will bounce from guy to guy for awhile.

The kids have to witness this. Beyond sad....


----------



## Melrose8888

Communication is only on the children, so she takes that opportunity to ask questions etc. Doesn't mean I respond to it!! I've had one face to face talk with her (other than the unfortunately but rare times drops off have to be done in person) since January...

In legal terms, the divorce settlement cash is due to her tomorrow, when I complete on the house but I don't think she knows that, so playing a little delay tactic. So she will get the boys holiday money in good time, just grates that she spends **** loads on her and POSOM (they are on holiday together next week) but can't budget for her sons. Sense of entitlement is incredible.

Meh. What's the worst the POSOM can do with my boys. I have a strong bond with them and the eldest tells me everything, so anything dodgy, I'm all over it and I still have other ways, beside legal, to hurt POSOM and his failing reputation. Still think they are in this for the long term though, neither of them have a plan B anymore and neither of them have decent friends / support network not to get through this without each other. So I fear I'll be on TAM talking about that for years.

I have sat back from the failed post-D relationship and I can really understand why people on here tell me this is going to take years. I will not turn down the opportunity to have some fun with women but I know I need to be alone to work through this. Anger rises again when I think like that because, why couldn't the ex just have left and not have the affair? I would have still be hurt by loss of my wife and burning of my life-map but it wouldn't have affected my future relationships so much. Grrrr....

As we approach 6 months since D-day, I revisited the 'Goals' list I wrote in Jan, to see how I'm getting on, bold are done or in progress:

*Running*
*Gym*
Swimming
Whisky trip
*Gigs*
*Self help reading*
*IC*
Golf lessons
*Dating*
*Guitar playing*
*Bike riding with boys*
*Budget for holiday with boys*
*Visit / reconnect with friends*
*Cooking*
*Football matches*
Skiing holiday
*Work change / promotion*
*Late nights / lie-ins*
*Volunteering*


Really great to see that I have made progress on nearly all of them and that is without referring to the list at all. Pat on the back for myself for progress, lots still to do and time to write up some new, challenging future goals.


----------



## Chuck71

M'Rose.... you've stumbled, wavered but you have stood tall through all this. Fighters do this...

There is a huge difference between "dating" a woman / women and having a relationship / LTR.

You can date just one and still "just date." Too many times people get all their emotions involved

and one wants it to progress (PED Chemicals... see Turnera's comments on this) and the other

is not ready but doesn't want to lose what they have. Setting boundaries in the beginning is so

critical. M'Rose is not looking for anything serious at all at the present but would like to meet 

someone with like interests, be able to bring new things to the table, and who would want a close

friendship. If nothing becomes of this... okay. If romance blossoms.... okay. As with ANY first

meeting and date.... go in with ZERO expectations. 

As for the goals..... HIGH 5! Never stop with your goals. Remember... 5 easily attainable, 5 

attainable but with difficulty, 5 long range attainable. Most of the long range will be on your list

a good while... reason they're long term. Before you know it.... when you look back to see how

far you have progressed from that shaken and scared person from D-Day.... you can't see him anymore.


----------



## Thor

Chuck71 said:


> As for the goals..... HIGH 5! Never stop with your goals. Remember... 5 easily attainable, 5
> 
> attainable but with difficulty, 5 long range attainable. Most of the long range will be on your list
> 
> a good while... reason they're long term. Before you know it.... when you look back to see how
> 
> far you have progressed from that shaken and scared person from D-Day.... you can't see him anymore.


Tony Robbins says, quite accurately imho, that we tend to very much overestimate how much we can accomplish in 1 year, and grossly underestimate how much we can accomplish in 5 years. That's a good perspective to keep.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi gang, quick weekly update. House completed without any hitches and I’ve written the £65k cheque which is her payoff that in return, I get a clean break from her and zero come back on anything financial, whatever happens to either of us. Will hand that cheque over to her on Sunday, when I drop off the boys (they have been with me for over a week while she ****s off on holiday with POSOM).

Within the envelope is a request that she changes her name back to her maiden name. I don’t want her using our family name after the **** she has pulled off. I doubt she will go for this, especially as it’s her estranged (now dead) Dad’s name (her Mum remarried) so she hates it but hey, worth asking.

Absolute has been granted, so it is officially all over, exactly 6 months from D-day! Incredible it’s gone through that quickly but I pushed and pushed and that is the ‘reward’. I celebrated by posting a public message on Facebook along the lines of ‘I’m divorced from cheating wife, good luck to her and her married father boss boyfriend’ . It’ll take it down in a couple of weeks but I needed to mark the moment with the truth being told, somehow.

I am really thankful it has gone as smoothly as possible (look at Danny and Sid’s horror stories, I know this could have been so much more painful). So I guess at some point in the future, I will look back on the last 6 months and feel proud of my actions.

Right now though? It still hurts. I still feel loss for what might have been (but can see what can be on the future). I still hate POSOM for doing what he did (but I can see how weak and sad he is underneath the bravado, so that is reassuring).

The next milestone arrives in 9 days’ time, POSOM is meeting my boys for the first time. I’m away volunteering at a music festival, so it’s probably good timing really but I’m not sure how I’m going to react. For now, I feel OK. It’s the longer days out, the overnight stays, the holidays away as an extended family with his kids etc., that might get me worked up.

On the plus side, I have got Father’s Day this Sunday, lunch with my boys and my Dad, then a date with a stunning lass on Sunday and another with a local girl on Monday. Made it clear to them, nothing serious, just getting back out there.

Onwards….


----------



## Chuck71

(Holds up middle finger at you) And you thought you couldn't make it :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Truth is.... she should be charge with 1st degree murder. She maliciously killed Melrose.

What she didn't count on was Melrose 2.0 to rise out of the ashes. And to beat it all....

she is responsible for Melrose 2.0 and she gets zero benefit of it. She gets to sit on her arse

and watch all the others enjoy it. Funny how things work out......

Seems like yesterday I was where you are now.....freshly D. That was 4.5 years ago.

I've had good times, bad times, great times since. One thing I have not once felt is any regret

of walking away once she started reaching. Per her POF dating site pics and the one time

we did meet (mom's death)... she looked lifeless, spent, used up. That sparkle in her eyes

20 years ago is LONG gone. In time M'Rose.... you'll see that too with your XW.

It ain't the destination.... it's the journey that gets you there. The roads you walk alone....


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> Had a chat with new GF Sunday, she was seeking​ validation again, fishing for compliments and then misconstrued things I said. More red flags than I was comfortable with. Then I denied her sexual advances (her son was in the house at the time and I wasn't comfortable) and this 'rejection' upset her. Left it until last night when told her I don't feel ready for a relationship, which she twisted in to me not liking her, not wanting her...etc. so, on reflection, a real shame. So many positives to be taken but I am pleased I was able to call it and not get blinded by the physical side and her generosity.
> 
> So single again which is probably just as well, lots of emotional hurdles to get over this month.
> 
> Don't feel that bad about anything though. Just a little tired from the whole process.


Good for you! She sounds like a bunny boiler. You made the right call. 

Tell your STBXPOSWW not to ask about your personal life anymore. If you get to the point where you are auditioning a new mom for her boys, you'll let her know. Otherwise its none of her business.


----------



## Melrose8888

Hi all, back from my volunteering and the festival was everything I expected it to be, perfect balance of working, seeing friends, seeing bands and some time alone.

On the Sunday, while I was there, I knew POSOM was meeting my boys for the first time. I was reflective but at ease with the enevitable. Standing watching one of my favourite singers, front row, in the sun.....I get a text from POSOM. Along the lines of 'thanks for allowing me to meet your boys, they are amazing and a credit to you and ex wife'. How dare he, he ruined the moment. Didn't respond, number (new phone) blocked, but damage is done.

Then I pick up my kids. First thing youngest says, without any prompting? 'We met POSOM! Played football, puzzles and we're going to his house this weekend!'.

Dagger. Through my heart.

I know I have to go through this but its too much to take. I feel I'm losing them to him now too.

So, poll time.

I want revenge.

Should I go to their work HR with all of the evidence I have of the affair starting long before they hinted at marriage trouble, the evidence that it started just before she got promoted, or not?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, back from my volunteering and the festival was everything I expected it to be, perfect balance of working, seeing friends, seeing bands and some time alone.
> 
> On the Sunday, while I was there, I knew POSOM was meeting my boys for the first time. I was reflective but at ease with the enevitable. Standing watching one of my favourite singers, front row, in the sun.....I get a text from POSOM. Along the lines of 'thanks for allowing me to meet your boys, they are amazing and a credit to you and ex wife'. How dare he, he ruined the moment. Didn't respond, number (new phone) blocked, but damage is done.
> 
> Then I pick up my kids. First thing youngest says, without any prompting? 'We met POSOM! Played football, puzzles and we're going to his house this weekend!'.
> 
> Dagger. Through my heart.
> 
> I know I have to go through this but its too much to take. I feel I'm losing them to him now too.
> 
> So, poll time.
> 
> I want revenge.
> 
> Should I go to their work HR with all of the evidence I have of the affair starting long before they hinted at marriage trouble, the evidence that it started just before she got promoted, or not?



Answer to your question at the end: Yes absolutely! But be organised and make sure all your evidence is neatly laid out. Do not be aggressive with the organisation but do say something like "it is unfortunate that an organisation as established as _(the organisation)_ would support such alienation of affection activities" etc.

In the meantime start dropping hints to your boys like "I am glad that you had a good time but I want you boys to promise me to always be careful and vigilant around men like (POSOM) as we don't really know him, especially after what he has done" and if they ask what has he done, say you will tell them when they are older but that you expect the older son to take care of the younger son when they are around him.

I might have responded to the POSOM by saying something along the lines of "listen, ****4brains! We are not friends and we certainly are not going to be "getting along" for anyone's sake, so stop contacting me. You will always be a POS who used his position to **** an employee and break up her family. Do not contact me in future!"


----------



## TaDor

F the POSOM! F the POSOM! F the POSOM! 

Melrose8888, POSOM is NEVER EVER EVER your friend. Even be frank with him. "No matter what, you are *THE* enemy of not just me, but also to my children. FU. They WILL know WHO you are when they are old enough. I won't lie to them. I won't pretend you are something else, other than a damn cheater who helped caused this divorce. I hope you die in a horrible accident, and trust me - I will piss on your grave."

Never EVER EVER friend the OM / OW.


----------



## MJJEAN

At this late date, I wouldn't bother. The divorce is final. Exposing to HR now just makes you look like a nutty ex. If you were trying to reconcile and/or everything was more recent, I'd say go for it. As is, I expect the response will be underwhelming.

At this point, especially if your ex has been competent on the job, it could be more of a legal liability for them to try to oust either of them than to simply look the other way.

I also think exposing to the kids in an age appropriate way should have happened before they officially met OM. Now, I don't know. It could end up a hot mess unless your ex would admit it when the kids ask. If she'd deny it then you end up with kids who don't know who to believe.


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 it is possible he might feel some guilt. Good. That is not your problem. 

Should you expose them do so only after the cheque is cashed.


----------



## Melrose8888

I did tell the kids. In fact, I did it, with ex present, in my house 2 weeks after D-day. I told her to tell them why she was moving out and who POSOM was. I said tell them who the Other Man is. This became a little in joke with the cheaters. "who is this other man  ?!" they used to text each other. ****ers.

Since them, the eldest knows 'mummy had a new boyfriend when still married to daddy and that is wrong'. He got it. Completely. The youngest was told he is the man who took mummy away and ended our family. He tells me 'I know, you told me that' when I reminded him who POSOM is last week. So they know. But they are young and such friendly, outgoing little lads, they just get on with everyone. I guess I have to reframe this as positive. Still cuts though.

No worries, I have no intention of ever intentionally meeting POSOM, I guess the day will come when we run into each other but make no mistake, both ex and POSOM know I detest him and will never be friends with either of them. Of course, with her rewritten history of me, this makes me look BSC but I know, my kids know, my real friends know the truth, so, **** em.

All paperwork / money / legal etc has been completed. Completely. No come back. Still, I am really 50/50 on work exposure. Is it revenge driven. is it justice. Is it the right thing to do. Just hate the way they have got away with this and everyone at their work thinks they got together last month, helping each other through the break down of their marriages. What a pile of steaming horse manure.

Wish I didn't spend time and energy on this **** but they are so entitled, go and do what they want, text me without a concern in the world about how I feel and then I get dragged back in.


----------



## Nucking Futs

If you were in the US I'd say go ahead and expose, I'm a fan of vengeance. But the laws are so screwed up in the UK that I'd probably want to run it by a solicitor before I did. Truth is not an absolute defense in the UK and look what happened to Sid Snot.


----------



## MJJEAN

Melrose8888 said:


> I did tell the kids. In fact, I did it, with ex present, in my house 2 weeks after D-day. I told her to tell them why she was moving out and who POSOM was. I said tell them who the Other Man is. This became a little in joke with the cheaters. "who is this other man  ?!" they used to text each other. ****ers.
> 
> Since them, the eldest knows 'mummy had a new boyfriend when still married to daddy and that is wrong'. He got it. Completely. The youngest was told he is the man who took mummy away and ended our family. He tells me 'I know, you told me that' when I reminded him who POSOM is last week. So they know. But they are young and such friendly, outgoing little lads, they just get on with everyone. I guess I have to reframe this as positive. Still cuts though.
> 
> No worries, I have no intention of ever intentionally meeting POSOM, I guess the day will come when we run into each other but make no mistake, both ex and POSOM know I detest him and will never be friends with either of them. Of course, with her rewritten history of me, this makes me look BSC but I know, my kids know, my real friends know the truth, so, **** em.
> 
> All paperwork / money / legal etc has been completed. Completely. No come back. Still, I am really 50/50 on work exposure. Is it revenge driven. is it justice. Is it the right thing to do. Just hate the way they have got away with this and everyone at their work thinks they got together last month, helping each other through the break down of their marriages. What a pile of steaming horse manure.
> 
> Wish I didn't spend time and energy on this **** but they are so entitled, go and do what they want, text me without a concern in the world about how I feel and then I get dragged back in.


The kids know about the affair and know he was the OM, so nothing more you can do there. If they like him, anyway, they like him. It's better than having the kids spend 50% of their time with someone they don't like.

You'll probably run into him at sports events, school events, and/or family social events like weddings or christenings. Just do what my divorced friends do. Stay on the opposite side of the venue and ignore each other unless a brief greeting is unavoidable.

I'd bet no one at work believes they just started dating recently. People aren't that stupid. Half the place probably knew before you did. They just don't care and are willing to nod and smile when the subject comes up in front of your ex and her "new" SO.


----------



## TaDor

Your kids are very young. Once they get older, start dating at the teenage range and older (age 13+). And understand that the co-parenting situation was caused by your EX and POSOM - they *WILL* understand.
Something I read on another message board about children from broken families caused by an affair. At ALL ages, they are ANGRY or HATE the cheating parent. Things I've learned about my own father, long after he died about his past (cheater) makes me hate him more. I went from indifferent to disgusts about a dead man.

Of course, don't tell your kids to hate their mother. But in your own way, handle things. IMHO, I don't think its a problem that if the kids talk about the POSOM, you say "I don't want to hear about the bad man.".

About exposure to their employers: Since you are 50/50 on doing it. Checks are cashed. Things are done. Here is a smple truth... do you give a damn what her co-workers think about YOU? What are they going to do to you? Nothing. Chances are, at their work place - they know only this: You and her got divorced and she started dating the OM after the divorce process started.

So, perhaps do it this way. Make your "exposure kit" that is ready = a simple click to fire off to those people / dept. above them. Whatever evidence or info you think they need. Dates. Especially if they had sex at work or on their time. You see, the issue with "cheaters" is that they have also proven to be liars and un-trustworthy. What else are they willing to LIE about that is work related? Steal money? etc.

So perhaps make it like a land-mine. You already made it a point that you don't want anything to do with THEM. (right?) Up to you IF you want to tell POSOM that any more direct contact with you or other boundries you have set have been broken - are not to be broken. Of course don't tell him what you will do. So when they *DO* it , you expose them at their job the same day or the next.

Oh well.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I still say expose. And do it graciously and politely. You will not come across as a nutty ex. You want to do it with genuine concern yet with a cold, steely eyed look in your eyes. Make sure that HR understand that you are not fvcking around. You need to maximise the impact of the karma bus that will surely hit him.

Bottom line is that they HAVE enabled this by not doing anything about this.

Stay friends with his ex and somehow let him know that you are doing this - delivering a message subtly that she is a classy lady and any good in his kids are a credit to her not him. Two can play that game!


With regard to your kids, you need to keep driving the message home. They are young now and have been taught to be (correctly so) polite. Therefore confrontation is not something you would expect them to be comfortable with. However, reinforcing this message of us (the three of you) against them (mainly him) is a good thing to do. It will make them stronger in their bond with each other as well as with you. Your ex forfeited her right to be part of this bond.


And for those of you who are wondering, I happen to know who the POSOM is as well as Melrose's ex and neither of them are good at their jobs. POSOM mainly because he is a class A bullish!t artist who has been promoted well beyond his capability. Turnera should know this type because he came from a failed project manager background where every body else's success was claimed and none of his failures were owned. And Melrose's ex simply because while she was good at her previous role, she had been promoted into a role that she was not qualified for by the POSOM!

HR at POSOM's work place could replace him in a heartbeat and should only need the slightest excuse to kick him out.


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## bandit.45

Melrose I feel for you man. I have no advice to give about the boys, other than be the best dad to them you can be and love them with all your might. Be a man of integrity and kindness and fairness. Laugh and take joy in life whenever you are around them, and make sure your home is a warm and comfortable environment...a sanctuary for them. You are those boys' dad. The other man may take the role of step-father, he may woo them and ply them with fun trips and cool toys and all the bright spangly things, but that will never earn him the right to be called "dad". You are their dad, and you always will be. 

I can guarantee you the gold veneer of your exWW's marriage will wear off very quickly. Often, relationships founded on adultery don't last. And even when they do last, they are rarely happy ones. Your boys will watch the shine wear off in that marriage with their own eyes, and they will have a front row seat to watch what a life without integrity looks like. 

And you will still be there for them...their dad.


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## turnera

If exposure will get HIM fired and not HER, go for it. If it will get her fired - and she may come after you for more money, being unemployed, don't do it.


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## Melrose8888

Lamancha gives me strength, then Bandit brings a tear to my eye…what a day… 

She probably won’t lose her job but it doesn’t matter, we have a clean financial break. Zero come back possible. Yes, so if she can’t work, it could affect the boy’s lifestyle but I’ve just given her £65k, so, unless POSOM has drained that for his new Discovery he just bought, she’ll be OK for a few years, even if the worst happens.

Oh, and just to add to the fun, it’s eldest son birthday on Sunday – have to go to her house for the party and play happy families with her POS friends that supported her decision. 

Hurdle after hurdle at the moment.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> Lamancha gives me strength, then Bandit brings a tear to my eye…what a day… 
> 
> She probably won’t lose her job but it doesn’t matter, we have a clean financial break. Zero come back possible. Yes, so if she can’t work, it could affect the boy’s lifestyle but I’ve just given her £65k, so, unless POSOM has drained that for his new Discovery he just bought, she’ll be OK for a few years, even if the worst happens.
> 
> Oh, and just to add to the fun, it’s eldest son birthday on Sunday – *have to go to her house for the party and play happy families with her POS friends that supported her decision.
> *
> Hurdle after hurdle at the moment.


Why? Why not dodge the party and take your son out for your own party? Do something really awesome for him. He won't care about his party that his fake mom is throwing, that will be attended by her fake friends. 

Stop playing this game with her. You don't have to. Tell her that you will forego the party and take him out for his birthday on your own. Tell her you are through faking family with her. You are not his uncle...you are his dad. You are not her fiend and you never will be.


----------



## Thor

Melrose8888 said:


> Since them, the eldest knows 'mummy had a new boyfriend when still married to daddy and that is wrong'. He got it. Completely. The youngest was told he is the man who took mummy away and ended our family. He tells me 'I know, you told me that' when I reminded him who POSOM is last week. So they know. But they are young and such friendly, outgoing little lads, they just get on with everyone. *I guess I have to reframe this as positive.* Still cuts though.


I don't really have any advice for you other than to try to find a balance somehow. For your boys there is a positive if both parents are happy. If POSOM is decent towards the boys, it is a positive (compared to so many horror stories of step-fathers...). Otoh, of course it is not positive they are spending less time with you. I think you can have a strong close relationship with them still as their father, though it is not optimal. Maybe this is the way you step up to a higher level of being a father to them than most fathers who are a bit on autopilot with the kids.

My parents divorced when I was in my mid 20's, so my experience is different. But, I do see that my mom is much happier in her second marriage than when she was with my father. And, _from the perspective of the child not the spouse_ I have had a positive relationship with her second husband.

Of course my father hates her second husband with a passion. He won't even say the man's name. Yes, second husband was OM in my mom's exit affair.

I guess my point is that your boys' relationships with their mom and posom are from a totally different perspective than your relationship with her and posom. Also, your relationship with your boys will not be replaced by posom. He will be an additional relationship in their lives. As long as he is a positive to them, that is really the best outcome given the realities of the situation and the alternate terrible outcomes so many kids experience.

In the end I think your boys will understand the moral failings of their mom and posom.


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## bandit.45

Oh god, please don't tell us going to that party has to do with all that British propriety nonsense...:bsflag:


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Oh god, please don't tell us going to that party has to do with all that British propriety nonsense...:bsflag:


Of course it has, @bandit.45!

Do the right thing! Stiff upper lip! Someone bumps into you, you apologise to them!

It works like this





































And this? Well,* this *is why Barbecues never really became all that popular in Britain


----------



## bandit.45




----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 this is the email/letter that you might *want* to write to the POSOM, but which you will *never* send:

"Dear xxxx, thank you! Thank you so very much! 

"Why am I thanking you? Because when I was married to WS, she was obviously cheating on me, so was putting me at risk of catching STDs or even HIV.

"But now, that is no longer my concern or worry. 

"Because now, if she gives someone the clap, it's not going to be me, it's going to be you!

"Yours truly, Melrose8888."

>


----------



## MattMatt

This thread has been moved back to CWI at the request of @Melrose8888.


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## TaDor

Uh... POSOM = not worthy of ANY respect. Let him give you a new reason to pull the trigger and expose.

What is she gonna do? divorce you?


----------



## Satya

I wouldn't want you to get into any legal trouble, but I might consider sending an anonymous, untraceable letter to the Board of Directors. HR only really cares about staff. The Board cares about image and impropriety. Not sure how much cred they'd give if you hide your identity, but you could start pointing the finger at the OM for misuse of company equipment (if communication was over corporate computers/mobiles) and misconduct during working hours (if their liaisons occurred during office hours). That might be enough to kick off an IT investigation where they audit his email. Then they'll trace it to your ex-wife if there's anything to be found.

I suggest this with caution, though. Goodness knows I'm generally against revenge, as I consider it a waste of energy that could be channeled elsewhere, but I am more disturbed by abuse of company resources to further an affair. No company wants to be in the newspaper because they allowed it. Violation of acceptable use is one big reason why people get fired.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi all, back from my volunteering and the festival was everything I expected it to be, perfect balance of working, seeing friends, seeing bands and some time alone.
> 
> On the Sunday, while I was there, I knew POSOM was meeting my boys for the first time. I was reflective but at ease with the enevitable. Standing watching one of my favourite singers, front row, in the sun.....I get a text from POSOM. Along the lines of 'thanks for allowing me to meet your boys, they are amazing and a credit to you and ex wife'. How dare he, he ruined the moment. Didn't respond, number (new phone) blocked, but damage is done.
> 
> Then I pick up my kids. First thing youngest says, without any prompting? 'We met POSOM! Played football, puzzles and we're going to his house this weekend!'.
> 
> Dagger. Through my heart.
> 
> I know I have to go through this but its too much to take. I feel I'm losing them to him now too.
> 
> So, poll time.
> 
> I want revenge.
> 
> Should I go to their work HR with all of the evidence I have of the affair starting long before they hinted at marriage trouble, the evidence that it started just before she got promoted, or not?


That was staged and scripted. You already PO'd the POSOM so he wants to push back.

This may have been more concocted by him than your XW. Don't EVER think your kids have

any notion of auditioning new dads. That's pain shopping. Let's see how he likes staying up

half the night when one throws up and has dry heaves. As for the exposure....... UK has funny laws.

You should go at this in a 3rd person way. As with Danny..... this is a once used card.

If it does not work, can not re-use. Collaborate with friends in UK, brainstorm ideas.

Share here if you desire input. And the OMW..... I'm sure she would like to weigh in.


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Lamancha gives me strength, then Bandit brings a tear to my eye…what a day… 
> 
> She probably won’t lose her job but it doesn’t matter, we have a clean financial break. Zero come back possible. Yes, so if she can’t work, it could affect the boy’s lifestyle but I’ve just given her £65k, so, unless POSOM has drained that for his new Discovery he just bought, she’ll be OK for a few years, even if the worst happens.
> 
> *Oh, and just to add to the fun, it’s eldest son birthday on Sunday – have to go to her house for the party and play happy families with her POS friends that supported her decision.
> *
> Hurdle after hurdle at the moment.


Good god!!!! Have you learned nothing here?

Do something with him yourself. Where is is written you have to kowtow to this?


----------



## scaredlion

I am a firm believer in "what goes around comes around", better known as KARMA. I have observed that karma is sometimes instant and sometimes it takes years but eventually the karma bus arrives. Eventually the POS will sweet talk your x-wife out of the 65K, probably move on to another married target, and then the fog will clear and reality will slap her in the face. Very few relationships that were born of infidelity manage to survive. Time and fate is on your side. It may be next month or ten years from now, but the day will come when your x-wife will rue the time she replaced you with a POS. As for your boys, love them, take interest in them, show them attention and the POS will never wiggle his way in between you and them. Keep making changes in yourself. Keep going to the gym. Buy some new clothes. Get a new hair style and date the hottest women you meet. Life is only as good as you make it. I do wish you well.


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## Marc878

IMO when some one wrongs you revenge is great for closure. However, you plan it out well and then execute so that it can't affect you in any way.

There is no karma. To leave revenge on the table unused is cowardly.


----------



## JustTheFacts

All the best to you sir. I would go after the POSOM with everything you legally can. He needs to pay. You can't rely on Karma to do it.


----------



## scaredlion

Marc878 and JustTheFacts:

Karma, in the western eye, is getting back the hurt or wrong that you have caused someone else. Therefore, revenge is in many situations, is karma.


----------



## JustTheFacts

My point was "take action" and not wait for something that may or may not exist (Karma) to do it for you .


----------



## Melrose8888

Party done. Think it probably is a British thing but my son invited me and would have missed me not being there.

But you know what, it actually helped me. After not getting any sleep due to a Tinder date , I rocked up feeling on top of the world. Polite nods and acknowledgements to ex and her POS friends, then I launched into being entertainer for the kids. During all this I observed the ex and realised i no longer hold any feelings for her. No attraction, no hate, no anger, nothing but a hint of amusement of how **** her life must be. The way she went about the party, her annoying fake laugh, the constant organisation / planning, the stressful style she goes about things, reminded me of the things that used to annoy me when we were married.

So, an unexpected bonus to a potentially difficult day.

On exposure to his work, thanks for all the input. A lawyer friend suggested if I did want to do it, it's best done with a laywer present, to avoid counterclaims and for seriousness. I'll sleep on it. Probably a waste of money. Lamancha is supporting in charging up the karma bus, that might be enough for now...

As for POSOM, my 4yo brought me back to reality. He said he was 'upset that I don't like the man who took mummy away'. So going to ease off for now. What will be, will be. But I ain't going be friends with either of them. Ever.

Sleep time.


----------



## hylton7

hope you go after them.


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> Getting rid of one over-entitled princess and replacing her with another over-entitled princess would have been a very bad idea.
> 
> Well done for avoiding that trap.


Ah, maybe...

But he missed what is *so important in a man's journey*. Finding another forested hill to climb onto. To explore a cave. To twiddle his thumbs in natures beauty.

To smell a flower at close range, to nibble at it, taste its pungent flavor.

To hold nature tight, hold it while getting down with the earthy deity.

To lay on the lush vegetatation, feeling the little soft mounds that comfort a man's lips and soul.

To look for and find the moss and the snap dragon under its guard.

To gaze at the naval..orange plot.

Go skinny dippin' in that warm stream, jump in at the deepest point. Immerse your flesh and paddle around, back and forth, enjoying the God Given feeling of Joy.

This, this bum rush is one that comes but rarely. 

Mother Nature was calling Melrose,, wanted his in-put, his take, his taking, partaking. He passed and went down the hill, his eyes and mind elsewhere.

Live this life to the fullest. Partake in all that it offers.....and it offers these romps... rarely more than singular. 

Take the Rose, inhale, endure the thorns...pain is subjective.

Grasp life that Nature offers, pull it close to your chest....give it your best shot...and quiver in fact, later in memory.
@Melrose8888! Revisit this lady....give her what she wants....what you need. Eh?

Just Sayin'

SCM


----------



## SunCMars

Life offers no second chances.

The next time around is a new day, the old 'packed up' and went. 

Love the women that come to you. One at a time. 

Give each your most. And most will be grateful, then sometime, in some place, one of you will 'pack up' and leave and start a new day.

Your face has but one purpose, to press against a women, some beautiful, some... not so, but all worthy.

All are worthy of love. All are worthy of intimacy. Not all are forever.


----------



## Melrose8888

SunCMars said:


> Life offers no second chances.
> 
> The next time around is a new day, the old 'packed up' and went.
> 
> Love the women that come to you. One at a time.
> 
> Give each your most. And most will be grateful, then sometime, in some place, one of you will 'pack up' and leave and start a new day.
> 
> Your face has but one purpose, to press against a women, some beautiful, some... not so, but all worthy.
> 
> All are worthy of love. All are worthy of intimacy. Not all are forever.


Were you watching my Tinder date last night?! 

We had a worthy night...


----------



## Melrose8888

Wow - been over two weeks since I last posted on my own thread! It's good to show others going through what I did, that there does come a point that the pain and need for support reduces. I remember how I was posting hourly, checking for responses, waiting for guidance. But it does take time and lot's of people tell you that on here - its frustrating but true.

In fact, going back through what contributors told me, for anyone who has recently discovered they are a victim of infidelity, listen to what the experienced crowd say - they will be correct. I was told it will ease with time, that they have done me a favour, that I deserve better, she's not the same woman I married, if I can get through this I can get through anything, I'll never figure out why it happened, she was a bad choice etc. All totally correct but you wouldn't have convinced me in the early days. Now I know, they were right.

I guess some of the other predictions of others are outstanding, including that she will try to get me back. What I can say is, on this one I hope they are wrong. However, I am, partly thanks to having to spend 2 hours with her at my son's birthday, at place where I am indifferent to her and wouldn't even entertain taking her out on a date to find out 'what if?'. There are far, far, far better options out there, mother of my sons or not, this isn't a good enough reason to settle for second (or worse) best.

Arriving at this feeling is partly down to dating. I know some have opinions on whether dating so soon after (during, as it was) divorce is right, good or helpful but I think, as long as you go in open minded and honest approach but with the clear mind set that you will not be ready for anything serious, the interaction, the conversations, the touch of a new partner certainly helps. It did for me, it boosted my self-esteem, gave me a distraction on the days I don't have the boys and, most importantly for me, it gave me a chance to put into practice what I had learnt from the demise of my marriage and the part I played in it.

Things are good. Very good when I actually sit back and think of what might have been. I have my house, a decent job that just about allows me to maintain my standard of living (albeit with a large loan from my parents), I'm dating, have a great set of friends and neighbours. I have a new goals list now and am fitter / more toned than I have ever been. I even feel my confidence coming back at work / social situations. I have attention from females and the one's that I allow to get close to me, well, I have noticed that within a very short space of time, they see what a good catch I am and start to look for more ways to be together. So for all of you newbies (and perhaps oldies!) out there, single dads in their late 30's / early 40's, who have their **** together, are seen as a great catch, especially by other single mums and especially by those who also suffered infidelity. People on TAM told me this too - once again, they were right!

The fears are still there, for instance, the likelihood that the XW moves the boys to live with him 90 minutes away but I manage those thoughts so much better. IC played a big part in this, as did this forum and reading books. I have learn to reframe the potential negative situations into positive ones. It doesn't matter that you didn't choose the situation you are in, you can, and will, react to make it the best outcome.

The co-parenting is sometimes tough. I still get a slight hint of fear every time I see XW name appear on an email or text, because I don't know if there is going to be a life changing request, like the above, in there. The days we do have to meet for drop offs or sporting events do still provide me with a small amount of anxiety. However, each occasion passes, with me still following 180 rules and each time, I feel better. It's only been 7 months, so my expectation is that, come the new year, with an annual set of events out the way since D-day, I will be fully moved on and ready to tackle anything.

Let's see in January, hey?

For everyone on here; keeping posting, keep listening, keep supporting all of the threads - I know I wouldn't be where I am today without you, TAM!


----------



## turnera

Do you have something in your agreement about how far away she can move your kids?


----------



## Melrose8888

turnera said:


> Do you have something in your agreement about how far away she can move your kids?


Not explicitly but the biggest barrier would be we are now exactly 6 months into our Mediation agreement of 50% shared time. That sets a strong precedent to keep things that way, especially when I have emails from her, school reports, pre-school reports saying how great the boys are doing...status quo.

The mediation document and the official divorce financial statement form, both have her statement on the boys continuing to stay at their current schools, which are named. So, from that POV it is positive but I know that POSOM has full control over her - jump, how high control. So if he says I want you to move in, she would.

Now, none of this is 'legally' binding, in the sense that if she wanted to do what she wants, she could (see Danny and Sid's threads....). However, we would have to enter into mediation again and if we don't agree, then go down the legal route. I don't fear it as much as perhaps I should because I have all the documentation ready to go to fight the legal path if needs be. Just a ball ache - I have learnt to enjoy my new 'normal'. Don't need an unnecessary legal fight just so she can live with the bald ****.


----------



## Chuck71

How fareth thy has cometh. Hope someday you, Danny, Sid all have a few ales together.

You are far from out of the woods but you see a much clearer path than around Christmas.

Be nice to see you throw down some 2x4s to today's newbys as your posts decrease. 

Maybe 'ol fat n bald will tell her to leave the kids and run off with her.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> How fareth thy has cometh. Hope someday you, Danny, Sid all have a few ales together.
> 
> You are far from out of the woods but you see a much clearer path than around Christmas.
> 
> Be nice to see you throw down some 2x4s to today's newbys as your posts decrease.
> 
> Maybe 'ol fat n bald will tell her to leave the kids and run off with her.


I hope so...

I do read TAM more than ever and comment when I feel I can add value, just don't feel the need to post my own woes.

You know what, Chuck, this is a scenario I have planned for - I couldn't call it but if he gets a job in say, Dubai, I think she might just go for it and give it all up for a couple of years. I'd be OK with that, get a nanny, work through the logistics. Again, 6 months with me and a precedent is set. That said, unless she goes (even more) BSC, its good for the boys to have a mother, especially so young.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> I hope so...
> 
> I do read TAM more than ever and comment when I feel I can add value, just don't feel the need to post my own woes.
> 
> You know what, Chuck, this is a scenario I have planned for - I couldn't call it but if he gets a job in say, Dubai, I think she might just go for it and give it all up for a couple of years. I'd be OK with that, get a nanny, work through the logistics. Again, 6 months with me and a precedent is set. That said, unless she goes (even more) BSC, its good for the boys to have a mother, especially so young.


I do have to agree. I had a great mom overall. Pop didn't really take a huge interest in me

until I was about 11 or 12. But that's the way he was raised, not saying anything bad about pop.

Your experiences with D and the leading up to D, will come in handy with the newbys.

I just give advice and if I can relate it to a personal experience... to deepen my point,

I do. All anyone can do. Good thing about this board.... we do sympathize with you in the 

beginning. But once you are on your path to recovery and you slip, we 2x4 the crap outta ya.

I still remember the pain I went through, almost 5 years ago. Yes it is some solace watching her

continue to reach. With hopes.... which died along with the most stubborn leaves of the 

Fall 2012.


----------



## inging

Hey Melrose
I agree about almost everything there

It comes in waves. One day you will feel free and that life is all good and the next fall back a bit. This cycle continued for a long time for me. Those intense feelings still side swiped me it became far less often and they lasted for a shorter and shorter amount of time. 

Later still, those same feelings came and they were not connected to anything. Just a passing emotion.
Six years later and they no longer hit. I still get sad for my kids lost childhood. I still get angry at their Mothers continuing selfishness and vindictive actions towards them. 

Because my kids are no longer kids. I blocked my Ex. It was a nice feeling and one that I wished I could have done earlier as many of those feeling were triggered by contact with her. No matter how small

I think now.. Take it easy.. Be kind to yourself and don't rush anything. 
PS
50+ with grown up kids is dating catnip too


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> Hey Melrose
> I agree about almost everything there
> 
> It comes in waves. One day you will feel free and that life is all good and the next fall back a bit. This cycle continued for a long time for me. Those intense feelings still side swiped me it became far less often and they lasted for a shorter and shorter amount of time.
> 
> Later still, those same feelings came and they were not connected to anything. Just a passing emotion.
> Six years later and they no longer hit. I still get sad for my kids lost childhood. I still get angry at their Mothers continuing selfishness and vindictive actions towards them.
> 
> Because my kids are no longer kids. I blocked my Ex. It was a nice feeling and one that I wished I could have done earlier as many of those feeling were triggered by contact with her. No matter how small
> 
> I think now.. Take it easy.. Be kind to yourself and don't rush anything.
> PS
> 50+ with grown up kids is dating catnip too


Hi ing - really appreciate you commenting, especially today, you must have sensed I was having a bad day. Fake it until you make it only goes so far on bad days.

It’s so useful for me to hear what to expect, I know this takes time but boy, 6 years for the emotions to stop! I struggle with that timeline. How on earth do you get by in the meantime? I need these feelings to be over now! I know that is unrealistic but it affects every day life, my work, my new relationships, my friends, everything!

The other bit that really confuses me, although others will say don’t waste your energy on trying to work out the ‘why’ but why doesn’t the XW have any of these feelings? Are they are purely related to my reaction to the infidelity, so, because she is the WW, she doesn’t have any of the pain? Surely some of these triggers are related to the breakup of the marriage and so she should be feeling them too? Sigh…

Cannot wait until I can block her, how old were your kids when you did that? As mine are 7 and 4, I cannot see that for 10 years, at least.

Eldest sons sports day got postponed until tomorrow and the XW emailed to ask if I was still able make it, as she is off for a long road trip weekend away with POSOM, wanted an early getaway to beat the traffic, so can’t make it. The selfishness, the sense of entitlement, it is so hard to sit by and watch without comment. But I do, because I know picking battles and having these little examples to hand further down the line, will be very useful.

Trying to take each day as it comes and pat myself on the back but hell, it’s tough, so thanks for empathising.


----------



## turnera

What you do with and in your life alters the timeline. If you maintain the same routine you had before, work, tv, sleep, work, tv, sleep, your brain has nothing new to fixate on, so guess what you think about? How your life is missing your spouse. 

If you instead decide to make over your life, do all the things you never gave yourself permission to do, try new things, take some risks, chart new courses, your brain's gonna be filled with a TON of new stuff that gives you meaning and purpose, excites you, gives you something to look forward to. Before long, missing her won't even matter any more cos you have so much to look forward to.

It's all in your hands.


----------



## inging

Tunera is right. The things you do effect the timeline.

Having small children forces you into contact with her. This allows her to affect your life and generally attempt to fck it up. It was 6 years before my youngest turned 18.. Then. No contact.

Their relationship is essentially parasitic. It requires that you are inconvenienced, annoyed and hurt for their relationship narrative to work. Without you ( or the OMW) they having nothing to talk about and nothing to rail against. 

This is an example of her wanting to invoke a reaction. Which it did.
" I am off for a long road trip weekend away with schmoopie, and want get away early to beat the traffic. I can’t make it to <insert thing>."

Lets translate that into Shmoopie speak for a second

I don't need you! My new Boyfriend things so much of me he is whisking me away for a romantic weekend! He wants to spend lots of time together! We are leaving early and I am sooooo excited! 
I wanted to let you (and your son) that it is super important to me. I am not going to some stupid sports day as Schmoopie is desperate to have me.

And now into the reality
**** you. **** the kids. I am off. Deal with it 

So what is the correct response to that statement? 
Nothing.. Absolutely nothing.


*Living well as the best revenge.*
Not just you but your kids too.. Change all the rules. Change you wardrobe, dance, learn to sing, get an old car with no payments. Relax, laugh with friends. Include the kids, include their friends. Get a cirucular waterbed for yourself. Anything to force your brain to rewire. It is in your hands. 

I had been with the same person for 25 years so 6 years is not really that unreasonable. Really it is more like 3-4 years with an occasional glitch along the way. The glitchs being the continued mind boggling vindictive communications with her kids.

My life is totally different to 6 years ago though. I am totally different. It takes time to become a new man after so long. 
A better man but not for anyone else. Just for you. 
*You are doing the right things. *
Turn up, be reliable, be a constant, and show the kids that this is not the end it is a new beginning.

https://youtu.be/hPNXJx12j6Y


----------



## leon2100

You got to admire a woman whose consistent


----------



## inging

Oh, and Why?

Because she wants to.

No more, no less.


----------



## Chuck71

M'Rose..... accept things which are out of your control and change things within your control.

Expecting a WS to be a proficient parent is quite the tall request. Parenting is a 200% deal.

All you can do is uphold your 100%. Rest... up to WS. Consider a WS in the ecstasy stage.

All oohs and goos Saturday night to Sunday late afternoon. From early Monday morning to 

Tuesday morning it is a downward spiral. Google "Suicide Tuesday + ecstasy"

That about mirrors the rise, zenith, and fall of an affair fog. Give it time but your XW will, 

send out "save me, rescue me" requests. Almost all do. But as you have moved on... 

you somewhat can't help but to chuckle at these. I know time is not the answer you want to

hear but it is the answer you need to hear. How are those hobbies coming along? Been about six

months now...


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 this might help illustrate what is wrong with your wife by using the technique of mind mapping (well, sort of...)

A normal woman's brain:









Your EW's brain










You cannot understand your wife because she has chaotic thinking, perhaps she does have a mental health issue.

But that is not your problem. Not your monkeys, not your circus. Let the new ringmaster cope with her shenanigans.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose8888 said:


> Eldest sons sports day got postponed until tomorrow and the XW emailed to ask if I was still able make it, as she is off for a long road trip weekend away with POSOM, wanted an early getaway to beat the traffic, so can’t make it. The selfishness, the sense of entitlement, it is so hard to sit by and watch without comment. But I do, because I know picking battles and having these little examples to hand further down the line, will be very useful.
> 
> Trying to take each day as it comes and pat myself on the back but hell, it’s tough, so thanks for empathising.


Just take each little battle as it comes Melrose. And you are right...her sense of entitlement is what it is all about. Remember though, that she was raised in a society that promotes entitlement, so in a weird way it is not entirely her fault. She was most likely raised by an entitled mother, hangs out with entitled people...

Just bide your time, play the game, and get the outcome you want. Eventually her shenanigans will no longer affect you because you will come to a point where she means nothing to you.


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## Melrose8888

A thought for today, for all BS...


----------



## Melrose8888

Glen dies and my Dad was in hospital with heart problems over the weekend.

So, given that, something else I wanted to share, this is the letter I wrote to the XWW back in March. In this case, I think this was worth writing and sending. NC is best but occasionally, it pays to let them know the score. (for the record, she wrote back saying how it was all lies and that she is a good judge of character - I sent a text back saying, let's all move on then and forget it but I'm glad I told you the truth.)

My advice to BS; write these letters to yourself and although sending them rarely achieves anything but providing Ego Kibbles to the WW, I felt better for getting my thoughts down (Since D-day I have written 7, sent 2). I read one from a few weeks ago today, wow, I'm glad I didn't send it but it was great to remind myself how I felt then and how better I feel today.

27.03.17

STBXW,

As I sit to write this, I do so with one aim, to ensure that DS1 and DS2 are not impacted by the break-up of our family. Any joint decision on parallel parenting must be entirely in their interest, not self-serving in the slightest and certainly not just to make things easier for you or me in the logistics of any new relationships. There are many studies on the impact of introducing new partners to children, especially at such a young age and my motivation is to avoid any disruption to their growth during this difficult time for them.

With that in mind, to make it clear why I am so against a self-absorbed person like POSOM being introduced to and being so involved in the upbringing of my boys, you need to understand what I have, with a degree of regret, come to learn about him, all of which will resonate with your situation:

•	He was married when he met OMW, at their work, provided her with affection and attention for 6 months and dated her, all before she even realised he was married. He lied to her
•	To ensure he got what he wanted from OMW, he told her that his ex was ‘a deluded liar’, when in fact, OMW now realises it is POSOM who is the liar and a cheat
•	He had (at least) an emotional affair with a work colleague when OMW was 8 months pregnant with his DD1, sending inappropriate texts, which he lied about until OMW found proof
•	He left his first fiancé at the alter after lying to her
•	He had (at least) an emotional affair with a girl that worked for their consultancy business, at their house a number of years ago
•	I understand they might have had similar ups and downs to us but YOU were the main problem in OMW and POSOM marriage. She threw him out multiple times in 2016 because of his obsession, secret meetings and lies about YOU, yet another co-worker fantasy
•	He abused his senior position, authority, time and resources to forge an inappropriate relationship with you, his direct report. He has allowed potential for a sexual harassment case to arise and he continues to lie to your employer, to avoid being found in breach of policy xxxxxx
•	He continues to show remorse and regret to OMW (one example being his note to her on 20th March), he needed hugs / comforting from her over Xmas and when he returned from USA, expects to be fed, looked after by her and continues to look for opportunities for physical contact with her
•	He continues to plead innocence to OMW and tells her that you two only got together in February, after he moved out. He also refuses to allow her to tell close family or friends the truth about his infidelity
•	OMW and POSOM had sex in mid-December, can’t remember if that was before or after he told you he loves you but was certainly after you two had moved your emotional affair into a physical one

I would ask you, if you knew all these things about this man, despite your strong feelings for him, would you enter into / continue a relationship with him? Would you want him around your children?

In reality, who knows how many other instances there are – the women in the bars at the hotels perhaps? Other women at work, perhaps? Friends of his brother, perhaps? WAGS of the sports team, perhaps?

I am of course upset by having to uncover your infidelity, it has left my self-esteem and trust in tatters, but I reiterate, I don’t want you back, nor am I bitter or motivated at all by revenge. I don’t really want anything to do with you, but we have the necessity of parallel parenting as a father and mother. Ideally you and POSOM would run off into the sunset together but given we have committed to raising our children together, I feel the need to share this information with you.

As per my first letter to you, back in November, before I had hard proof of your affair, I mentioned us getting the balance wrong in our marriage. It’s tough us both having full time jobs, commuting, raising two small boys, multiple nights of broken sleep, running a household etc. All POSOM had to do, to make you his next conquest, unsurprising given he is obsessed with grooming female co-workers, was to do what we used to have time and energy to do, namely; Listening to each other; Complementing each other; Making each other laugh; Giving each other our time and attention.

I know I waned on providing affection and conversation last year, but this was only after a long period where my sexual fulfilment, companionship and admiration I received from you had also declined steadily. That said, I still believe that if you hadn’t crossed the boundaries that a married women should not cross, had you ended the affair, we would have worked together to resolve these missing needs in each other, I would have fixed my faults, to rebuild our marriage and we would have come out the other side as an even stronger couple. I was committed to this when you told me how unhappy you were in November but the uncovering of your relationship with POSOM, and your refusal to end it, was always going to result in me filing for divorce – I had to remove myself from infidelity at the first opportunity. I would never accept being someone’s Plan B. If you had come to me with remorse and the promise to stop your affair, I would have eagerly worked with you to become your Plan A again.

I guess the irony of you and POSOM not having any of the day to day responsibilities of normal life at work, having 9 hours+ each day to build your emotional relationship, is that, once again many of these needs are, to a certain extent, being met on both sides. However, for me, the main basis of a successful relationship is trust, honesty, openness, loyalty and family commitment; in light of the evidence you would have to agree, all of these are missing in POSOM.

You may see this disclosure as an attempt at controlling the situation and yes, I can see how that might come across but my ONLY motivation is to protect my children (and to some degree that involves protecting you, their mother). I do understand where you’re coming from, you fell in love with him, you’ve never felt this way before and you want to get back to ‘normal’ life, to have your married father of two boyfriend, accepted by our children. But you are not in a ‘normal’ relationship with POSOM, indeed, I see no progress of divorce on his side at all and that is yet another reason why I feel your intentions are misplaced at this time.

True, the boys need to grow, learn and experience things for themselves, I cannot be there to protect them forever. But right now, they are going through so much change that any other interfering, from a married, attention seeking, serial liar and cheat, who willingly chased a married women with 2 small kids, and the risk that carries, is just not warranted. 

I am very aware that I am telling you, a cheater, what you already know; that you are in a relationship with another cheater. But I know deep down, being a cheater is not like you at all. I am very aware that I am telling you, a liar, what you already know; that you are in a relationship with a liar. Again, deep down, you are not a liar. I also totally understand that you probably think you are different, that your love for each other feels so unique and that you can change him – I know he won’t change. STBXW, you are no different to any of the women mentioned above and, I’m afraid, will be no different to his next conquest once the issues that affect all relationships, start to appear again.

I don’t expect you to automatically believe me over whatever he is telling you, especially with you being in the addiction / infatuation stage of your relationship but, just as you are encouraging me to meet with him, perhaps instead, I can suggest you speak with OMW. You have a unique opportunity to find out about him, from a reliable source, someone who is also a mother and has been through exactly this situation before. At the very least, it will allow you to make an informed decision about whether you think having a man of his morals around our small children, is appropriate. 

If, even with confirmation of all the facts at your disposal, you insist on inflicting him on my sons once we are divorced, then I suggest there will be a necessity to enter into further formal talks about this.

I am also still concerned about the secretive nature of your relationship at work and how that risks your career and earnings. True, POSOM may well find his new job soon (although I fear this further damage to his reputation may be difficult to recover from) but as it currently stands, it puts all four children at risk of huge financial impacts.
To end this on a positive and supportive note, STBXW, you are strong enough not to need someone at this difficult time. I know that, if you keep your eyes open, your wits about you and then choose to take the best course of action here, that you will be OK. You should not fear being alone. You will certainly be better off alone, than with someone like POSOM.

As the mother of my sons and for what we had in the past 17 years, I don’t wish to see you left in a dangerous or hurtful space. For your own sake and for DS1 and DS2, I don’t want any of us to be hurt / affected by this anymore than we already have. I just want you to take care.

Melrose


----------



## Chaparral

Do you wonder how this would have worked out if you had followed the advice in the beginning to out him to his company, his wife and his family? He has no character. I totally believe he would have ran like a dog on fire.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chaparral said:


> Do you wonder how this would have worked out if you had followed the advice in the beginning to out him to his company, his wife and his family? He has no character. I totally believe he would have ran like a dog on fire.


Pretty sure I know how it would have worked out:

1) I wouldn't have got a great deal on the financial settlement of my divorce, as she would have lost her job and the pay rise she got by sleeping with him, that allowed me to reduce the lump sum I paid her

2) It would have made Co-parenting almost impossible - she is a stubborn ***** and would have used the exposure against me

3) She would have come crawling back - the ultimate disaster. I said it before, they did me a favour because if she hadn't had the affair, I would have tried to make it work and that would have just been kicking the can down the road

4) His wife and kids would have been impacted, as he would likely lose his job and, given he is a bull ****ter in his career, he is struggling to find a new job as it is. The OBS doesn't deserve that on top of the pain of infidelity.

Issue is, this all still might happen anyway and the only people I care about that are going to be affected? My sons...


----------



## Chuck71

If she eventually loses her job and / or she has a lower paying job, is she able to take you back to court?

I'd definitely hope not....


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> If she eventually loses her job and / or she has a lower paying job, is she able to take you back to court?
> 
> I'd definitely hope not....


Nope. Clean financial break. In this sense, to me, she is only the mother of my boys now, nothing else.

If she tried to move the boys away or tired to amend the 50/50 agreement, we would have to go to court, as that co-parenting agreement is non legally binding (but we've done the meditation already, so it would go straight to court).


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> Pretty sure I know how it would have worked out:
> 
> 1) I wouldn't have got a great deal on the financial settlement of my divorce, as she would have lost her job and the pay rise she got by sleeping with him, that allowed me to reduce the lump sum I paid her
> 
> 2) It would have made Co-parenting almost impossible - she is a stubborn ***** and would have used the exposure against me
> 
> 3) She would have come crawling back - the ultimate disaster. I said it before, they did me a favour because if she hadn't had the affair, I would have tried to make it work and that would have just been kicking the can down the road
> 
> 4) His wife and kids would have been impacted, as he would likely lose his job and, given he is a bull ****ter in his career, he is struggling to find a new job as it is. The OBS doesn't deserve that on top of the pain of infidelity.
> 
> Issue is, this all still might happen anyway and the only people I care about that are going to be affected? My sons...


Hi Melrose,

You have impressed the hell out of me in how you handled this. I am older than you and a little more experienced at this but you have conducted yourself in a well thought out and noble way. You are absolutely right in your predictions as to what would have happened - its just that most new BS's find this difficult to see or believe. As for point 4, I can vouch for the fact that his name is mud in many circles - and the thing is I didn't have to do much - all I'd mention is please let it not be <his name> when people were talking about a new CIO slot and the answers would be "oh you don't like him either" etc. And your care for the OBS is very admirable.

Did you get a response to that letter ?

On a different not, I didn't take you for a Glen Campbell fan! Not many Brits are to that extent (most know him for just Rhinestone Cowboy). I have been a fan of him not just as a singer and entertainer but a guitarist too (he was in many famous bands). My spirits were always raised when he came on the radio and although he was country at heart he was also good on the pop scene back in the day. I needless to say am a humongous fan and sad that another of my era has moved on! Well the Rhinestone clad Wichita Lineman with True Grit has moved on to the Galveston in the sky and will remain forever Gentle On My Mind! I will continue to Try A Little Kindness in your memory. RIP Glen!


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Hi Melrose,
> 
> You have impressed the hell out of me in how you handled this. I am older than you and a little more experienced at this but you have conducted yourself in a well thought out and noble way. You are absolutely right in your predictions as to what would have happened - its just that most new BS's find this difficult to see or believe. As for point 4, I can vouch for the fact that his name is mud in many circles - and the thing is I didn't have to do much - all I'd mention is please let it not be <his name> when people were talking about a new CIO slot and the answers would be "oh you don't like him either" etc. And your care for the OBS is very admirable.
> 
> Did you get a response to that letter ?
> 
> On a different not, I didn't take you for a Glen Campbell fan! Not many Brits are to that extent (most know him for just Rhinestone Cowboy). I have been a fan of him not just as a singer and entertainer but a guitarist too (he was in many famous bands). My spirits were always raised when he came on the radio and although he was country at heart he was also good on the pop scene back in the day. I needless to say am a humongous fan and sad that another of my era has moved on! Well the Rhinestone clad Wichita Lineman with True Grit has moved on to the Galveston in the sky and will remain forever Gentle On My Mind! I will continue to Try A Little Kindness in your memory. RIP Glen!


Thanks, lamancha. There are a group of you guys that have kept me going. You are one of them and there is no way I'd be as fair forward without this support and kind words of advice.

Glad to hear his name is mud. It's the best revenge I can enact right now.

The response from XWW was to tell me it was all lies, sad that I believed the OBS, that she has a great judge of character, one day I will see that and she enters with an open mind, heart and soul. * spew *

POSOM also wrote me a letter. I didn't open it until after my divorce was final (didn't want any impact on that) but it was a case of 'the man doth protest too much'. Even in that he suggested we meet so he could correct my 'wild accusations'. It was amusing to read from 50,000 feet, once all had been settled. It had an angry tone to it, I managed to rattle him.

As for Glen, that is the influence of my Dad. He had the 'Still Within The Sound Of My Voice' album loaded into this car tape player when he drove me to school in the 90's. I know every word to that album and once I started to teach myself guitar, I used Glen's songs as a base for learning. That man had quite a life!!

This example reminds me what influence I will have on my kids and drives me to be a better father than ever. I fear my Dad will die in the next year, a twice cancer survivor but I see a little part of him starting to give up and this latest heart scare won't help....


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks, lamancha. There are a group of you guys that have kept me going. You are one of them and there is no way I'd be as fair forward without this support and kind words of advice.
> 
> Glad to hear his name is mud. It's the best revenge I can enact right now.
> 
> The response from XWW was to tell me it was all lies, sad that I believed the OBS, that she has a great judge of character, one day I will see that and she enters with an open mind, heart and soul. * spew *
> 
> POSOM also wrote me a letter. I didn't open it until after my divorce was final (didn't want any impact on that) but it was a case of 'the man doth protest too much'. Even in that he suggested we meet so he could correct my 'wild accusations'. It was amusing to read from 50,000 feet, once all had been settled. It had an angry tone to it, I managed to rattle him.
> 
> As for Glen, that is the influence of my Dad. He had the 'Still Within The Sound Of My Voice' album loaded into this car tape player when he drove me to school in the 90's. I know every word to that album and once I started to teach myself guitar, I used Glen's songs as a base for learning. That man had quite a life!!
> 
> This example reminds me what influence I will have on my kids and drives me to be a better father than ever. I fear my Dad will die in the next year, a twice cancer survivor but I see a little part of him starting to give up and this latest heart scare won't help....


Good to hear and thanks for your kind words. I would predict that you are going to be a big positive influence on your boys - they will learn and grow and learn and grow until one day they will suddenly realise that while they love their mum (because she is their mum and has cared for them), you are the stable, rock on which their foundation is based. If the POSOM is still around they will recognise him for what he is. My advice - keep the communication channels always open with them even when you are not physically with them - they should be able to speak to you about anything (and I mean anything - no matter how much trouble they are in) at all times without fear and knowing you will always have their backs and their best interests at heart. Spend as much time with them in learning environments as much as in fun environments. They will remember both equally.

And your dad has good taste in music. He sounds like a strong character and he has raised a good boy so he can look back on that with pride! 

Take care of you and yours.


----------



## Danny4133

Can I just dip in Melrose.
I'm glad you didn't send that letter chap.
The flaws you discuss in your posew, you need not point them out as she knows them and boy she knows that you know too.

The flaws you point out in the POS, yep she and we all know that too. As with all cheaters they lie to themselves. The sense of entitlement and self importance crosses over in to the land of 

"I'm that special and I can change him/her"

Again it's lack of self introspection, the ability to deceive ones self and orchestrate project re hash history.

But too much focus is given above, thinking about people that are far beneath you my good man. 

Which brings me to my final point
The main reason I'm relieved about not sending is the fundamental cornerstone to all that is important about you moving forward. 

I can pin point the exact moment it happened to me and I seen it in my stbx's face. It's CONTROL and taking it back. Grasping the shiddy situation and taking control of it with two hands.

That letter relinquishes control To a great degree and would've handed your balls back to her. It smacks of you caring too much through the back door of using the boys as the point of concern. 

I get it, I see your intentions are honourable I can see that. But honourable and trustworthy, morality and all those words aren't in the cheaters vocab. 

So, baring in mind she's already firmly planted in the camp of I'm special I'm great I'm all that. when that's what engulfs her - grounded thinking is like a drunk Scouser offering you directions. 

Hard to understand when sober, impossible when steaming.

You're in control, you don't give a horses behind about her and her mistakes and life choices. You're too good for her, offering her advice implies caring you're far away from that.

I'm glad you didn't send it fella, use it as a benchmark when you read it to see how far you've come. 

Kudos to you mate.
I hope you're Dad is ok, you're due a spoonful of good fortune.


----------



## honcho

Melrose8888 said:


> Thanks, lamancha. There are a group of you guys that have kept me going. You are one of them and there is no way I'd be as fair forward without this support and kind words of advice.
> 
> Glad to hear his name is mud. It's the best revenge I can enact right now.
> 
> The response from XWW was to tell me it was all lies, sad that I believed the OBS, that she has a great judge of character, one day I will see that and she enters with an open mind, heart and soul. * spew *
> 
> POSOM also wrote me a letter. I didn't open it until after my divorce was final (didn't want any impact on that) but it was a case of 'the man doth protest too much'. Even in that he suggested we meet so he could correct my 'wild accusations'. It was amusing to read from 50,000 feet, once all had been settled. It had an angry tone to it, I managed to rattle him.
> 
> As for Glen, that is the influence of my Dad. He had the 'Still Within The Sound Of My Voice' album loaded into this car tape player when he drove me to school in the 90's. I know every word to that album and once I started to teach myself guitar, I used Glen's songs as a base for learning. That man had quite a life!!
> 
> This example reminds me what influence I will have on my kids and drives me to be a better father than ever. I fear my Dad will die in the next year, a twice cancer survivor but I see a little part of him starting to give up and this latest heart scare won't help....


Way back in the beginning of my mess I was one of the guys who sent the letter. The om in my situation is a real piece of work and I've known him for years. I sent her copies of all of his conviction's for domestic abuse and assaults, the names of his many affair partners that I knew of over the year's etc etc. 

She of course responded with what a great man he was, how all his legal problems weren't his fault and how all these other women who claimed to have had affairs with him were just jealous and making up stories and of course her still denying a relationship with him despite living in his house. I remember just busting out laughing when I got the response from her and I kept thinking that despite how I felt I had to try and get this divorce done fast while she was this far off the deep end.


----------



## MovingForward

Melrose8888 said:


> Wow - been over two weeks since I last posted on my own thread! It's good to show others going through what I did, that there does come a point that the pain and need for support reduces. I* remember how I was posting hourly, checking for responses, waiting for guidance. But it does take time and lot's of people tell you that on here - its frustrating but true.*
> 
> *In fact, going back through what contributors told me, for anyone who has recently discovered they are a victim of infidelity, listen to what the experienced crowd say - they will be correct.*
> 
> *The co-parenting is sometimes tough. I still get a slight hint of fear every time I see XW name appear on an email or text, *b.
> 
> *The days we do have to meet for drop offs or sporting events do still provide me with a small amount of anxiety.* However, each occasion passes, with me still following 180 rules and each time, I feel better. It's only been 7 months, so my TAM!


I am same on all these, I was frantic when I first came on here and wanted constant responses, advice and reassurance and everyone was right in the beginning she played me for a fool and i considered myself a good judge of character, married 12 years and finally saw the real her.

I am having a terrible time co-parenting with her, I do not like her and have a lot of anger towards her so get anxious any time I have to deal with her or see her especially drop offs which are 3 times a week its awful so really hoping it gets better.

Not dated much yet I have tested online but not a fan so think I will stay single for a while and hope I bump into someone somewhere or meet someone through a mutual acquaintance.


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> Can I just dip in Melrose.
> I'm glad you didn't send that letter chap.
> The flaws you discuss in your posew, you need not point them out as she knows them and boy she knows that you know too.
> 
> The flaws you point out in the POS, yep she and we all know that too. As with all cheaters they lie to themselves. The sense of entitlement and self importance crosses over in to the land of
> 
> "I'm that special and I can change him/her"
> 
> Again it's lack of self introspection, the ability to deceive ones self and orchestrate project re hash history.
> 
> But too much focus is given above, thinking about people that are far beneath you my good man.
> 
> Which brings me to my final point
> The main reason I'm relieved about not sending is the fundamental cornerstone to all that is important about you moving forward.
> 
> I can pin point the exact moment it happened to me and I seen it in my stbx's face. It's CONTROL and taking it back. Grasping the shiddy situation and taking control of it with two hands.
> 
> That letter relinquishes control To a great degree and would've handed your balls back to her. It smacks of you caring too much through the back door of using the boys as the point of concern.
> 
> I get it, I see your intentions are honourable I can see that. But honourable and trustworthy, morality and all those words aren't in the cheaters vocab.
> 
> So, baring in mind she's already firmly planted in the camp of I'm special I'm great I'm all that. when that's what engulfs her - grounded thinking is like a drunk Scouser offering you directions.
> 
> Hard to understand when sober, impossible when steaming.
> 
> You're in control, you don't give a horses behind about her and her mistakes and life choices. You're too good for her, offering her advice implies caring you're far away from that.
> 
> I'm glad you didn't send it fella, use it as a benchmark when you read it to see how far you've come.
> 
> Kudos to you mate.
> I hope you're Dad is ok, you're due a spoonful of good fortune.


You can ALWAYS chip in, Danny!

Unfortunately I did sent that letter in March (well, actually, I'm glad I sent it, it leaves no stone unturned - we all know where were are at).

Actually, the moment I told her that, after she replied to me saying its all lies, fine, let's all move on, I took back control.
The moment, the day after the Manchester bombing, I told her, I'll never be OK wit POSOM but life is too short, so the boys can meet him but ONLY for short meets, I took control.
The moment I got the divorce I needed after 6 months, I was in control.

Now, controlling emotions, that's a different game...!! Just about to split up with another girlfriend, because I'm not ready / there are things that concern me. Perhaps I will take the rest of the year off from dating but I would miss certain parts of it.... 

Off with my boys to see my Dad tomorrow - let's hope for lots of laughter between us all.

Love and peace to you and keep going as well!!


----------



## Melrose8888

MovingForward said:


> I am same on all these, I was frantic when I first came on here and wanted constant responses, advice and reassurance and everyone was right in the beginning she played me for a fool and i considered myself a good judge of character, married 12 years and finally saw the real her.
> 
> I am having a terrible time co-parenting with her, I do not like her and have a lot of anger towards her so get anxious any time I have to deal with her or see her especially drop offs which are 3 times a week its awful so really hoping it gets better.
> 
> Not dated much yet I have tested online but not a fan so think I will stay single for a while and hope I bump into someone somewhere or meet someone through a mutual acquaintance.


Yep, how fortunate are we. The mask of our WW could have been held until we were in our 60s, a whole life wasted. At least we have a chance.

Are you in IC to learn how to convert that anger into positive actions. By all means get angry but do it down the gym on the punch bag or weights. When you see her on drop offs, stone cold is the way forward. (check out Ben Folds song, Selfless, Cold and Composed, on this one).

OLD - I've struggled, the only advice I can give is just be honest, with them and yourself. Yes, everyone wants someone to love but let's all just slow down, hey? I, like you, hope I meet that next person through traditional means but only when I'm ready and people tell me that is going to be years... :surprise:


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Yep, how fortunate are we. The mask of our WW could have been held until we were in our 60s, a whole life wasted. At least we have a chance.
> 
> Are you in IC to learn how to convert that anger into positive actions. By all means get angry but do it down the gym on the punch bag or weights. When you see her on drop offs, stone cold is the way forward. (check out Ben Folds song, Selfless, Cold and Composed, on this one).
> 
> OLD - I've struggled, the only advice I can give is just be honest, with them and yourself. Yes, everyone wants someone to love but let's all just slow down, hey? I, like you, hope I meet that next person through traditional means but only when I'm ready and people tell me that is going to be years... :surprise:


OLD is a complete crap shoot. M'Rose and MF.... post your profiles on all the ones you know

of and.... get out and mingle with people. Try a place where people do not have their noses

stuck in their damn phones. During this time, check your profiles. Answer only the ones you

choose to. Yes guys can do this, I did. Yes guys must meet certain criteria for a female to

be interested but.... contrary to popular belief, the women must as well. Granted it was not this 

way when you were in your late teens / early 20s when you chased everything not nailed down.

But you're older, know more what to look for, know what you will not put up with. 

Melrose..... never regret sending the letter. It was confirmation of what you thought.

I have sent a few of them in my days and it really helped me. Especially when they come nosing back

around wondering where they stand with me. My last one, to UG was sent but was "time-stamped"

as in a three day window. She didn't know that..... she did when she came sniffing. 

You have to be at a certain point to send it. Most of the posters were not sure where you stood then,

I'm sure you, yourself were not sure. But in the end, it worked out for you, all that matters.


----------



## MovingForward

Melrose8888 said:


> Yep, how fortunate are we. The mask of our WW could have been held until we were in our 60s, a whole life wasted. At least we have a chance.
> 
> Are you in IC to learn how to convert that anger into positive actions. By all means get angry but do it down the gym on the punch bag or weights. When you see her on drop offs, stone cold is the way forward. (check out Ben Folds song, Selfless, Cold and Composed, on this one).
> 
> OLD - I've struggled, the only advice I can give is just be honest, with them and yourself. Yes, everyone wants someone to love but let's all just slow down, hey? I, like you, hope I meet that next person through traditional means but only when I'm ready and people tell me that is going to be years... :surprise:


Yes very true.

I am in IC go twice a month and started back at the gym to get in shape again and work off some frustrations.

Unfortunately the anger stays around as she keeps doing more things to annoy me, last night for example she was 2 and a half hours late to get them as she went for dinner(guessing with POSOM) she did warn me day before but was later than she told me, I could not keep them overnight as I had to be in work early and was not pre-scheduled so I dropped them off and she is with POSOM daughter and looked like she was staying over so takes more attention away from my children as usual, all her time with them is spent with him and his kids.

The Holiday she booked without telling me for 10 days cut into 2 of my work trips and I am left trying to figure out and pay for overnight childcare just little things she does without consideration for anyone but herself.


----------



## Melrose8888

MovingForward said:


> Yes very true.
> 
> I am in IC go twice a month and started back at the gym to get in shape again and work off some frustrations.
> 
> Unfortunately the anger stays around as she keeps doing more things to annoy me, last night for example she was 2 and a half hours late to get them as she went for dinner(guessing with POSOM) she did warn me day before but was later than she told me, I could not keep them overnight as I had to be in work early and was not pre-scheduled so I dropped them off and she is with POSOM daughter and looked like she was staying over so takes more attention away from my children as usual, all her time with them is spent with him and his kids.
> 
> The Holiday she booked without telling me for 10 days cut into 2 of my work trips and I am left trying to figure out and pay for overnight childcare just little things she does without consideration for anyone but herself.


Keep up the good work in IC and the gym - it all adds up.

A suggestion, if I may, although it doesn't fix the issue you have...probably best if, at the end of your time with the kids, that YOU drop them off. This way (and it works both ways) you don't interrupt or feel you are hanging around. Of course, if she is not there, this doesn't solve this but you could, in this example, have taken them to where she was for dinner and passed them over.

We'll never understand what goes through these self obsessed, entitled WS heads, so best not to try. Keep building a log of all these examples of bad co-parenting / comms...you never know when you might need them...

I do sympathise though as today, the expected happened; XWW told me POSOM is going on the holiday she has arranged for her and the kids, next week. The really odd thing was, she made a point of calling out that this doesn't change 'his role' and he is merely another adult in their lives. Oh, and that he will be sleeping in the lounge, not her bed.... This is probably even more confusing for my boys than if he did sleep in the bed. I mean, come on, they know who he is by now!!! Very odd...

As many said before, it's great when you can step back and view this from a distance, you can almost see the next 2 or 3 moves and, although it doesn't make it any easier, I can be prepared with my reaction and response. Today? It genuinely was a shrug of the shoulders, a deletion of the email without response and back to doing my work.


----------



## MovingForward

Melrose8888 said:


> Keep up the good work in IC and the gym - it all adds up.
> 
> A suggestion, if I may, although it doesn't fix the issue you have...probably best if, at the end of your time with the kids, that YOU drop them off. This way (and it works both ways) you don't interrupt or feel you are hanging around. Of course, if she is not there, this doesn't solve this but you could, in this example, have taken them to where she was for dinner and passed them over.
> 
> We'll never understand what goes through these self obsessed, entitled WS heads, so best not to try. Keep building a log of all these examples of bad co-parenting / comms...you never know when you might need them...
> 
> I do sympathise though as today, the expected happened; XWW told me POSOM is going on the holiday she has arranged for her and the kids, next week. The really odd thing was, she made a point of calling out that this doesn't change 'his role' and he is merely another adult in their lives. Oh, and that he will be sleeping in the lounge, not her bed.... This is probably even more confusing for my boys than if he did sleep in the bed. I mean, come on, they know who he is by now!!! Very odd...
> 
> As many said before, it's great when you can step back and view this from a distance, you can almost see the next 2 or 3 moves and, although it doesn't make it any easier, I can be prepared with my reaction and response. Today? It genuinely was a shrug of the shoulders, a deletion of the email without response and back to doing my work.


Same for me she had the children sleep over at his house and they told me she slept in his bed, i did not even bring it up with her as past trying to be reasonable or civil with her but it does grind on me and wear me down, they are becoming very clingy to me and last night my daughter did not want me to leave at drop off.


----------



## Chuck71

MovingForward said:


> Yes very true.
> 
> I am in IC go twice a month and started back at the gym to get in shape again and work off some frustrations.
> 
> Unfortunately the anger stays around as she keeps doing more things to annoy me, last night for example she was 2 and a half hours late to get them as she went for dinner(guessing with POSOM) she did warn me day before but was later than she told me, I could not keep them overnight as I had to be in work early and was not pre-scheduled so I dropped them off and she is with POSOM daughter and looked like she was staying over so takes more attention away from my children as usual, all her time with them is spent with him and his kids.
> 
> The Holiday she booked without telling me for 10 days cut into 2 of my work trips and I am left trying to figure out and pay for overnight childcare just little things she does without consideration for anyone but herself.


She is doing this to either annoy you or she just don't care. I think it is to annoy and.... it's working.

Don't let the small stuff phase you. You'll be surprised how fast it stops.

Remember......... 50k feet..... observe, no emotion. Much easier...


----------



## MovingForward

Chuck71 said:


> She is doing this to either annoy you or she just don't care. I think it is to annoy and.... it's working.
> 
> Don't let the small stuff phase you. You'll be surprised how fast it stops.
> 
> Remember......... 50k feet..... observe, no emotion. Much easier...


She just doesn't care I think she is in a world of her own and its all about her and POSOM

Sorry didn't mean to Hijack your Thread @Melrose8888


----------



## Melrose8888

No hijack issues!!
I used to feel the same, MF but I realised, that is what WW want you to think, how they want you to react. It might be difficult to believe but it's not all rosey on their side but they have to give off that impression because otherwise, what would that mean about the decision they made?
As Chuck says, step back, take a breath and view it for what it is. They have a 1% chance of happy for ever after and even then, the doubts will always be there for both of them. I'll take my chances elsewhere, thanks anyway.
Not easy to do but don't sweat it. In time we will look back and breathe a sigh of relief.


----------



## Melrose8888

My good TAM friends.

Been a while but today is 100 steps forward, 150 steps back.

Long story short, my eldest son was staying at my parents for the week. XWW asked if she could collecting him from there and go on to her holiday with the boys. No problem, arranged to have all of the eldest things packed up, provided X with an update on my son’s week via email and expected them to hand over to her car with youngest son already with her. Job done.

Tonight (while driving back from watching my football teams' unexpected cup victory, I might add – so in a great mood!) I call my parents. My mum answers. I ask if handover went without hitches. Pause. Do you really want to know, she asks. Well, yes. She then goes on to tell me she invites XWW in for a cup of tea….
POSXWW then proceeds to tell my mum that ‘there were major issues on both sides’ that ‘Chris (POSOM) wasn’t anything to do with the breakdown of the relationship’ and that ‘she knows that I am getting treatment for my depression, which is good’. Oh, and she also said 'i just wish we could all sit down over dinner, as friends, and discuss the boys one day'. So here I have my mum asking me if I’m depressed and what major issues I caused on my side?!?!?

Now, I am aware that I might be overacting here but if my parents haven’t got my back, then who the **** has?!

This raises another issue. I don’t really like my parents anymore. They don’t seem to understand me at all. One example that my Mum gave was how upset I was that I told her ‘that’s not helpful’ when, 10 days after d-day, she said ‘isn’t it such a shame, you had your whole life with her to look forward to’. I mean, just ****ing think before opening your gob. She never does. Controlling and opinionated. My Mum seems more obsessed with worrying about what I might say or so that might affect her feelings. I did discuss this in IC and have tried new methods of comms but it’s tough going.

I was depressed, yes, caused by my reaction to XWW inaction over the past 5 years. No sex, no respect, no admiration, no connection.

On top of this, and I know this sound ridiculous but POSOM, who is to join them a couple of days later, has given X his brand new Land Rover to drive down and around in for the holiday. For me this is so difficult as it acts as a symbol that they are living the high life and that cheating works and has no downsides. Well, apart from the irony that OBS tells me POSOM is depressed and suicide runs in his family...

Right now, I am back to anger, sadness and thoughts of revenge. I want to drive straight up to their workplace tomorrow and dump the evidence of the affair with HR and let them deal with the fallout. Cheating ****ers.

Honestly, I wish they would both disappear of the face of the earth……before I do.


----------



## turnera

Did your mom give you unconditional love? Or was she the kind who gave you love as long as you did what she wanted, or did she give sideways compliments?


----------



## Danny4133

Mate, I'm with you 150% with this.
Some of my "mates" thought they could minimise and stay friends with us both so I swiftly savaged them and made the decision for them with a swoop, block, delete numbers and set to pick up and put down any incoming calls via an app. Tec is brill nowadays.

But your nearest and dearest W.T.F
I'd have to pull most of my rels off POSEX if she turned up, a swift uppercut has been mooted a few times to my hilarity. Your Ma needs a talking to, you need to be frank with her about all your dysfunctional ex has done and she needs educating not to take what is said at face value, I mean what next an invite for tea and scones or a BBQ with POS cooking ? Advocacy shouldn't be a request for your children it should boot in automatically. 

It's hard enough rebuilding, dealing with the fall out of betrayal and protecting your boys as best you can without that shizz too. 

If I were you mate I'd arrange to go round your folks and keep an upbeat but professional tone about what it is exactly ex's done and is doing to you, tell her that it's wholly unacceptable for her to be inviting a stranger in to the house and not to discuss personal matters with such a "person". I'm sure you can provide a robust account why and exactly why she shouldn't be minimising the open marriage and narcissism you have to deal with each and every day. She's got no right to discuss anything about you with her, Roger That!

Consistency and knowing who's got your back is so important in daily life as it is. It goes under the microscope x1000 when you're dealing with what we have had dumped on our doorstep..

Keep going my friend, get back on it.
I was one goal off a 7 game acca tonight for £730. Wounded, bloody football.


----------



## Melrose8888

turnera said:


> Did your mom give you unconditional love? Or was she the kind who gave you love as long as you did what she wanted, or did she give sideways compliments?


Hard to give straight answer. When I was under 10, I think unconditional. Then we had big issues with my older sister (9 year age gap) and I almost became the peacemaker between her and any issues / my mum. Around then, I guess I was taught to work hard and I'll get my rewards. Mum and Dad were fighting then too and he threatened to leave her. History repeating, hey... As I said, all covered in IC and I know the impact all this had on me and won't make mistakes again.

I guess it's just sad that there might be a realisation that I have to 'let my parents' go if I can't stand them. They are too old to adjust to what I'm asking them. They will always be straight talking. It's an Irish thing...


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> Mate, I'm with you 150% with this.
> Some of my "mates" thought they could minimise and stay friends with us both so I swiftly savaged them and made the decision for them with a swoop, block, delete numbers and set to pick up and put down any incoming calls via an app. Tec is brill nowadays.
> 
> But your nearest and dearest W.T.F
> I'd have to pull most of my rels off POSEX if she turned up, a swift uppercut has been mooted a few times to my hilarity. Your Ma needs a talking to, you need to be frank with her about all your dysfunctional ex has done and she needs educating not to take what is said at face value, I mean what next an invite for tea and scones or a BBQ with POS cooking ? Advocacy shouldn't be a request for your children it should boot in automatically.
> 
> It's hard enough rebuilding, dealing with the fall out of betrayal and protecting your boys as best you can without that shizz too.
> 
> If I were you mate I'd arrange to go round your folks and keep an upbeat but professional tone about what it is exactly ex's done and is doing to you, tell her that it's wholly unacceptable for her to be inviting a stranger in to the house and not to discuss personal matters with such a "person". I'm sure you can provide a robust account why and exactly why she shouldn't be minimising the open marriage and narcissism you have to deal with each and every day. She's got no right to discuss anything about you with her, Roger That!
> 
> Consistency and knowing who's got your back is so important in daily life as it is. It goes under the microscope x1000 when you're dealing with what we have had dumped on our doorstep..
> 
> Keep going my friend, get back on it.
> I was one goal off a 7 game acca tonight for £730. Wounded, bloody football.


The mates part, I did the same and am fine with it. Easy cuts.

But family?! Well that is just another issue entirely! I'm in shock buy part of me know my mum wanted to get involved, it's her nature. She did use kids as an excuse to why she invited her in...
I guess I just can't believe the ongoing fallout from this event. It touches and shakes every part of your life. Can I really be at a stage where I lose my wife, relationship with my family and 50% of time with my boys?! Unthinkable just 9 months ago.

I'm aware this is incomparable to the hell you are going through, Danny, so I feel a little sheepish at complaining but these are life changing moments.

But I can just see the smug look on posxww face as she got to tell her side of the rewrite. *****.

Irony is, just today my boss gave me a payrise and an exceeds rating on my annual bonus. Just feels so up and down right now.

Hope it wasn't the Fulham result you needed...


----------



## Lostinthought61

Melrose, 
I am sick to my stomach at what your mother said, I would kindly inform her that if she wants a ting to do with the boys she better get with the program or she can spend the holidays with out them and you....she over stepped her bounds.....but I also have to say that I was opposed you give that money for the holiday to your ex....no good deed goes unpunished.....


----------



## turnera

I'm Irish, too. Half. Other half (dad) German. Dad the stubborn German, he chose to give up me to save his second wife from scrutiny (she did some heinous things to me and my husband). So I dropped him. After he blamed ME and called me a bad mother, I never spoke to him again for the next/last five years of his life. He lost out on watching his only granddaughter growing up and it wasn't until he was on his deathbed when I finally visited him, that he apologized for choosing her over his own daughter. Well, too bad. Today, my daughter doesn't even remember him, let alone miss him. HIS choice.


----------



## SunCMars

turnera said:


> Did your mom give you unconditional love? Or was she the kind who gave you love as long as you did what she wanted, or did she give sideways compliments?


Stop asking good questions!

Turmera, Dear, as you begin and continue the transplant of this ailing Rose [i.e., Melrose] to a better place in life', I note: you first search for the roots. 

You get down low, reach in the hole and expose the laterals offshoots with those [white-gloved] long fingers. You then take your small spade and dig out and down...extracting the Rose's root ball. The Root Cause, if you will. 

I believe it is your intention to show our English Gentleman that: His Mother is the Root Cause for his flawed picker, his aching swollen "pick-her". 
His mother denied him the love and the support that a boy needs to cope properly in the world. A world filled with intoxicating, quixotic femininity. Yes, he was guided by this poor role model, this mother. 

And he found it hard to spot the good ones, the worthy ladies....as many are not so. 

On the prowl, young men see the curves, the smile. They do not see the curve ball heading for their head. Not the large head, no it is the little one that gets knocked silly.
She fouls him at Home Plate.....marital supper plate of offings fit for a slave. Her new slave, her new boy. Raised by a Mother in Her Image, yay..

She nails him right in the nuts. And nuts he becomes until he leaves, he files. Files right out the marital squeaky-hinged door.

Baffling to a man are women who are cocksure and who withhold love and passion for 'oft" sundry reasons [sundry as seen by men]. Women who get their way by riding roughshod over weak men....polite men. Gentle-men. 

STBXWW claimed a dried up love...no amount of lube or foreplay could loose her rusty, slotted, clinker-clanker. 

Til a balding rich man, a suicidal boss inserts his knobbed key.
Inserts his key and starts the old lady tractor up. Her bushy whacker works like a young girls. Smooth, no pucker uppers. No hiccups...
No protest. 

She bargained away her slot. Well shucks, it's a slotty, well-oiled tractor. Ah-tractor. Attracted him...the old rich and lonely dude. 
She exchanged the slot for riches.
Some women are good bargainers. She was. A good bargainer. An older slot for a life of riches. From middle England to Upper Buckingham...bucking him in bed.

Women do not have OP's back. Save one, Melrose's dear daughter.
...........................................................................................................................................

Turnera!

Go outside....Look up!

My particulated, pixelated dusty form has been circling your house for days. I have been taken by Eastward going Wayward Winds from Jalalabad to the Gobi, then over the Pacific. I now be in a holding pattern over your house. Go outside and wave. I need a kibble. Take your neighbor kids slingshot and let me have it. You look good from up here....hear!

But what do I know. I am a Ghost...with no substance....only my blasted, blasting suffering words.

Ka, ka, ka...I yam what I yam...


----------



## turnera

I waved, Sun. 

Mel, listen to Sun.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> My good TAM friends.
> 
> 
> POSXWW then proceeds to tell my mum that ‘there were major issues on both sides’ that ‘Chris (POSOM) wasn’t anything to do with the breakdown of the relationship’ and that ‘she knows that I am getting treatment for my depression, which is good’. Oh, and she also said 'i just wish we could all sit down over dinner, as friends, and discuss the boys one day'. So here I have my mum asking me if I’m depressed and what major issues I caused on my side?!?!?


She is trying to normalize the new relationship. Your mother wants to hear that things could be better just like you did all those months ago. She has to go through her own cycle of denial and anger. Pull your head in and suck it up. Smile. 

Your Ex has managed to live in her bubble quiet nicely for quiet a long time and now you know how... 

What you are hearing there is her own justification of the her actions. I also got the "all sit down for dinner" and " under different circumstances you would really like him"

She is looking for your approval. Your continued refusal to provide that stops her being accepted by friends and family.

The Truth will Out

After over 6 years I only have one friend from that previous life. It is someone I have known since before I got together with my Ex. 

When we let go we have to let go of everything. It is not fair but ultimately liberating. It is you that gets the new life. Not her. She is condemned to live this hell of her own making for as long as she refuses to knowledge reality. Don't hold your breath . She may never do it.

Go kick a puppy or something:wink2:


----------



## Melrose8888

Still feel like ****.

I know my reaction is what causes the pain but how could I not react to any of this.

Sun – I agree with your musings, as always. I am a man after all and I can see POSOMs eyes light up as he realised his tried and tested ‘charms’ were started to reap rewards with my XW. He gets a (fairly) good looking piece of skirt, 6 years younger and she gets the attention and cash of a ‘successful’ CIO.

Smile, ing? If only…I know it often all seems great on the other side but it really does feel as though it is for them. I haven’t seen any downside for them, especially as they show no signs of remorse.

Would exposure to their work just be seen as a desperate and bitter revenge tactic, now, 9 months since affair went physical? It feels it is all I have left in my arsenal to make myself feel better.


----------



## SunCMars

Gawd, that @turnera is sooo hard to ruffle. So staid and proud she be.

I do believe that [she] does sense, realize, this rascal lady, that I have been doing this [to her] for centuries. 

Her skin is very delicate and thin...except with me. For me she has developed an extra coating of derma. To protect her from my Rays....me trying to get a Raise out of her.

I worked and worked on @Blondilocks. She folded and gave me some crumbs, a few kibbles. No compliments. She has them...plenty of them for me. But she is a Hoarder of Compliments.
She wants them for herself. She is a great person, a great Gal. But stingy. 

Now, Turnera is too clever. I can say more on her, on this...but I dare not. I am too powerful and will take out half the power stations in America if I choose to beam my truth..and then, self destruct.

I will keep silent, until...just before 12 Moons pass over the orbs. At that point I must sign......out.

In today's Jargon, we call it SunBlock. She rubs on at least SPF 50 to block my penetrating humor. She thinks it works.

It does not.....

The tan lines tell the truth. 

Nope, Never.....No red burns. No skin peel, maybe the nagging, pealing Bell of Adamo ringing in her head. Maybe the peeling paint, that her DH needs to attend to. 

No burns. Maybe Robert Burn. Maybe rope burns....from the Rope-A-Dope [that she does] when she ignores me. 

I Be, therefore I yam....

Get the slingshot....

Turnera! Melrose is getting impatient. He wants you to put him in a better place, a better mood. Do your 'best' feminine effort and soothe this Dear Chap. What a good man he is.

Just Sayin'


----------



## Affaircare

@Melrose8888, 

I would like you to think about something Think of the things that actually do bring you happiness. For me, I'm truly happy when I appreciate what I have. I'm truly happy when I am helping others--I feel like my life isn't so bad! I'm truly happy when I'm treating others the way I want to be treated. I'm truly happy when I am trying something new. 

You'll note that NONE of those things that bring me true happiness involve negativity or revenge. 

I think if you were going to OUT the cheaters at HR, the time to do so would have been closer to d-day or at least earlier in the timeframe. If I remember correctly, you were waiting until things were settled/ordered in the divorce enough so she couldn't mess with you, and THEN you were going to out them. But I sincerely think that to do so now would only be an attempt to hurt her so she hurts as much as you hurt, and you and I both know that behaving in a hurtful, vengeful way does not result in "feeling better" or "feeling happy." 

So I would say think of the things that do make you happy, and do more things like that. I get it--your list may not be my list. But whatever your happy list IS...do more of those things. As an example, when I am feeling particularly ****ty, I always go to the homeless shelter and help pass out meals for the day. I'm GREAT at being the maitre d and greeting people, and being the waitress who hands out drinks. And a few hours working there usually reminds me of how good I actually have it!


----------



## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> Still feel like ****.
> 
> I know my reaction is what causes the pain but how could I not react to any of this.
> 
> Sun – I agree with your musings, as always. I am a man after all and I can see POSOMs eyes light up as he realised his tried and tested ‘charms’ were started to reap rewards with my XW. He gets a (fairly) good looking piece of skirt, 6 years younger and she gets the attention and cash of a ‘successful’ CIO.
> 
> Smile, ing? If only…I know it often all seems great on the other side but it really does feel as though it is for them. I haven’t seen any downside for them, especially as they show no signs of remorse.
> 
> Would exposure to their work just be seen as a desperate and bitter revenge tactic, now, 9 months since affair went physical? It feels it is all I have left in my arsenal to make myself feel better.


No, the work chaps already know. Or will know. When he invites her to company gatherings.

Take the high road to London.

She and her OM have taken the low road. And the mules that pull their covered wagon have left droppings on that Cobble Road that will lead to their Dunkirk. Mule dung, stinky gooey, straw-man filled offage, on the road. In piles. For all to see. Let a blabber tell the truth. Find a blabber and fill his or her ear with 'your' truth.

The Truth, mind you, has indeed, set you free. He got the old cheating slot. You got freedom from a life of ongoing strife. 

I know you are bitter. I too, would find it hard....to not be Bitter Tea. 

The Cheating 'other man' got him a bitter lemon for his Tea. One big, big boobed, lumps worth. 
He is happy with the deal. Why! He is blind...and he is a fool. He latched onto a Cheater Wrench. Or shall I say a Cheater Wench?

What is a Cheater Wrench? It is a small wrench that is given leverage by sliding a pipe over top. Making the handle longer, giving it more torque.

A Cheater Wench is one that slides her Vee-Jay over a small pipe giving her more leverage over an old fool. Giving him more 'mental Torque'. 
THIS...from your STBXWW, an artificially sweetened Cheesy Cake, a Tort. 

In Realityham, somewhere outside Birmingham, she is a lying, cheating old Tart. 
Stale, her fur-lined Well was not Caissoned.....it was hastily brought back into service. 

It will soon run out of water, trickle dry....then collapse shut....again. She uses it to clamp tight on a man. Once the ink is dried on the Divorce papers, then the new Marriage Contract her slot tractor will sputter out. 

It is not sex that she wants and needs, it is outward riches.

You lost a Gold Digger...not a worthy Women.

I bring you back to life, to reality. @turnera? She asks you questions. I give you answers...Uh, Huh !!


----------



## SunCMars

turnera said:


> I waved, Sun.
> 
> Mel, listen to Sun.


I broke thru......to the 'Other Side'

I love you Dear. I have for Centuries.


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose 

Yesterday today and perhaps tomorrow you'll not feel good. But I urge you to look at the diamonds and not the cubic zirconia.

All the matters here are those boys and your relationship with them. If all the thought, time and effort expelled on matters to do with POS EX POSOM consider the gains if channelled to the children.

Don't waste too much effort on people that no longer matter and over time it'll dawn on you just how insignificant they are.

I get it mate, I really do, but the kids are the catalyst and the motivation for you moving onwards.

Based on your treatment by your family and POS EX rubbing your nose in it, you seek Validation and assurance. I want you to know that we find your mother and ex's actions and treatment of you abhorrent and you have more than every rite to feel hard Done to.

It's hard, I won't lie to you buddy. It isn't easy. I've lost a lot (of dead weight) and once where certainty lay there is at best ambiguity. But as the quote I once read and really resonates, "we cannot direct the way the wind blows but we can adjust the sales". You my friend are in control and on the right track and I want you to know that it's ok to feel the way you do. Just consider what adjustments you need to make to maximise the direction of the wind and power through the choppy waters.

Onward Brother !


----------



## turnera

Melrose8888 said:


> I haven’t seen any downside for them, especially as they show no signs of remorse.
> 
> Would exposure to their work just be seen as a desperate and bitter revenge tactic, now, 9 months since affair went physical? It feels it is all I have left in my arsenal to make myself feel better.


You're focusing completely on the wrong things. No wonder you aren't progressing. All you see is what was taken from you. What's wrong with looking at what you now can get for yourself? You're shedding a CHEATER. Now you can get on with your life and do all the things you gave up for her. Now you can try new things an older, wiser man may enjoy. Hell, you could move halfway across the world and open up a surf shack on a beautiful beach somewhere and look at hotties in bikinis for the rest of your life. 

Your whole world is ahead of you and you're too busy mourning a POS woman who couldn't keep her panties on when you should be rejoicing that you won't waste the rest of your life on a CHEATER.

T/J: Sun, funny you say that. I'm going in tomorrow to check on some possible skin cancer.


----------



## GusPolinski

I'd probably expose, but then I don't live in Anglostan.

I think about all the BS @SID SNOT has been through since exposing his WW's affair, and I'm not sure it would be worth it.

Still, if I thought I could do it in such a way that it wouldn't come back to haunt me (by way of a criminal record, jail time, fines, etc), I'd probably do it.


----------



## SunCMars

turnera said:


> You're focusing completely on the wrong things. No wonder you aren't progressing. All you see is what was taken from you. What's wrong with looking at what you now can get for yourself? You're shedding a CHEATER. Now you can get on with your life and do all the things you gave up for her. Now you can try new things an older, wiser man may enjoy. Hell, you could move halfway across the world and open up a surf shack on a beautiful beach somewhere and look at hotties in bikinis for the rest of your life.
> 
> Your whole world is ahead of you and you're too busy mourning a POS woman who couldn't keep her panties on when you should be rejoicing that you won't waste the rest of your life on a CHEATER.
> 
> T/J: *Sun, funny you say that. I'm going in tomorrow to check on some possible skin cancer. *


Ho, boy!

I am so sorry.

Aside: I am very psychic. Consistently. 

I must have read your mind.....again.

If it IS skin cancer, blame the Sun....

Blame Me. SunC is always peeking at you. Never peaking....more than enough radiating mental energy left.
....................................................................................................................................................

On cancer......I underwent radiation [+ a type of chemo] therapy last year. Very good prognosis. When they beamed me, I beamed back at them!

....................................................................................................................................................

It matters not. In every one of my incarnations, the Red Queen brings about my demise. As you know, I was blown to hell and back. I called "Broken Arrow"...twice. I got my wish. The Immortal Red Queen lost her Army, her Red Hair and her Red Dress. 

Initially, I was instantly turned to flying hamburger, then dried meat strewn on the rock croppings...steaming in the hot desert, finally, dust in the wind. 

Still in the air, I have moved on from your lovely house. Thanks for the wave.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> Smile, ing? If only…I know it often all seems great on the other side but it really does feel as though it is for them. I haven’t seen any downside for them, especially as they show no signs of remorse.
> 
> Would exposure to their work just be seen as a desperate and bitter revenge tactic, now, 9 months since affair went physical? It feels it is all I have left in my arsenal to make myself feel better.


You are still looking for signs of remorse. There will be none and any interaction just gives her power. 

It would be nice to be able to rage like some Game of Thrones character, but you have little kids and you have to set the example because their Mother sure as hell isn't.

She is still trying to hurt you. She will use your kids and every dirty trick in the book. And every bloody time it will sucker punch you. 

The reason it hurts is because you are a normal person, with some sense of empathy and compassion. It is why she chose you. It is why she continues to try and engage you. She found a mirror to her own selfishness in her new love and finds that irresistible.. She found someone new who "knows her" but he will never be able to be her emotional compass. That was your job and because of that she will attempt to hoover you back in any way she can.


If you detect anger it is because i am angry about the level of selfishness that is being shown. It is hard to fathom. But Melrose.. You have to. For the sake of your kids and for you to kick your self in the arse 20 times a day until you no longer need it. 

I am no longer in contact with my Ex. My kids are no longer in contact. It came to that. They are hurt and still can not understand and frankly I can not give them an answer that explains any of it. In the end ( the real end) you just shrug your shoulders..

You picked poorly. I picked poorly. Many of us did. 

*So what now..*

Here are some cliff notes of what will happen in the next year of so..

She will attempt to come back for sake of kids.

She had an argument with POSOM and is feeling lonely
She is feeling guilt. ( no relation to remorse)
She is missing her comfortable life
She is tired of being seen as a homewrecker
She is bored
 In moments she will appear remorseful.. ( that passes as soon as you respond)

She will attempt to rewrite history with friends and family
This will go on for a long time and at some point she will at least hint that you abused her. (that one is fun)



She will tell the kids lies
This will work until they are a bit older and the kids can see it for themselves. Hold your breath.. Count to 10 ( or 100)

She will ghost you
Refuse to take calls, be unavailable for extended periods, 
She will text bomb you
This one is odd. Long texts that make no sense. Love you/hate you . It is normally when she is feeling guilty or about to do something she will be guilty of. do not respond to them..

There are more.. But your Ex might not be as bad.. I hope

I suspect you are still in more communication than you let on and that is okay. it is incredibly difficult to get free of a narcissist . There. I said it.

https://youtu.be/jCBiUoe7YWA


----------



## SunCMars

inging said:


> You are still looking for signs of remorse. There will be none and any interaction just gives her power.
> 
> It would be nice to be able to rage like some Game of Thrones character, but you have little kids and you have to set the example because their Mother sure as hell isn't.
> 
> She is still trying to hurt you. She will use your kids and every dirty trick in the book. And every bloody time it will sucker punch you.
> 
> The reason it hurts is because you are a normal person, with some sense of empathy and compassion. It is why she chose you. It is why she continues to try and engage you. She found a mirror to her own selfishness in her new love and finds that irresistible.. She found someone new who "knows her" but he will never be able to be her emotional compass. That was your job and because of that she will attempt to hoover you back in any way she can.
> 
> 
> If you detect anger it is because i am angry about the level of selfishness that is being shown. It is hard to fathom. But Melrose.. You have to. For the sake of your kids and for you to kick your self in the arse 20 times a day until you no longer need it.
> 
> I am no longer in contact with my Ex. My kids are no longer in contact. It came to that. They are hurt and still can not understand and frankly I can not give them an answer that explains any of it. In the end ( the real end) you just shrug your shoulders..
> 
> You picked poorly. I picked poorly. Many of us did.
> 
> *So what now..*
> 
> Here are some cliff notes of what will happen in the next year of so..
> 
> She will attempt to come back for sake of kids.
> 
> She had an argument with POSOM and is feeling lonely
> She is feeling guilt. ( no relation to remorse)
> She is missing her comfortable life
> She is tired of being seen as a homewrecker
> She is bored
> In moments she will appear remorseful.. ( that passes as soon as you respond)
> 
> She will attempt to rewrite history with friends and family
> This will go on for a long time and at some point she will at least hint that you abused her. (that one is fun)
> 
> 
> 
> She will tell the kids lies
> This will work until they are a bit older and the kids can see it for themselves. Hold your breath.. Count to 10 ( or 100)
> 
> She will ghost you
> Refuse to take calls, be unavailable for extended periods,
> She will text bomb you
> This one is odd. Long texts that make no sense. Love you/hate you . It is normally when she is feeling guilty or about to do something she will be guilty of. do not respond to them..
> 
> There are more.. But your Ex might not be as bad.. I hope
> 
> I suspect you are still in more communication than you let on and that is okay. it is incredibly difficult to get free of a narcissist . There. I said it.
> 
> https://youtu.be/jCBiUoe7YWA


Very good post...very well thought out.

I lot of effort went into writing this. Thank you. Ing-Ing.

I hope Melrose's WW's ears are swollen, aching and ringing. 
Words of Judgement are coming her way from all corners of the world. 
Words hurt....
Ill thoughts beamed through our atmosphere do real damage.

Call these thoughts: Counterblow Prayers, from the angry Collective....that is TAM.
She blew OM. The Collective will blow {down} her future. 

Just Sayin'


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Melrose8888 said:


> Smile, ing? If only…I know it often all seems great on the other side but it really does feel as though it is for them. I haven’t seen any downside for them, especially as they show no signs of remorse.


 Stop looking for it. This is you wanting to stay miserable. Her happiness, or lack thereof, is not in your life description anymore. If she never has to work again, gets everything she ever wants who cares? As long as you love your kids, they love you and you are happy another sadness or happiness shouldn't affect you in any way. Nope, not saying it is easy just that you should change your views. When you stop looking for them to fail and live your life you'll stop caring either way. If you keep waiting for them to fail, you'll be perpetually depressed. Oh and you do realize everything isn't great right? History rewrites tend to appear when someone needs something or they are getting push back. Makes me wonder who in her family, who she was close to, balked and it had her run to your mom.


> Would exposure to their work just be seen as a desperate and bitter revenge tactic, now, 9 months since affair went physical? It feels it is all I have left in my arsenal to make myself feel better.


Yes, but I'm vindictive and I could give 2 ****s what anyone would call it.


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> Melrose
> 
> Yesterday today and perhaps tomorrow you'll not feel good. But I urge you to look at the diamonds and not the cubic zirconia.
> 
> All the matters here are those boys and your relationship with them. If all the thought, time and effort expelled on matters to do with POS EX POSOM consider the gains if channelled to the children.
> 
> Don't waste too much effort on people that no longer matter and over time it'll dawn on you just how insignificant they are.
> 
> I get it mate, I really do, but the kids are the catalyst and the motivation for you moving onwards.
> 
> Based on your treatment by your family and POS EX rubbing your nose in it, you seek Validation and assurance. I want you to know that we find your mother and ex's actions and treatment of you abhorrent and you have more than every rite to feel hard Done to.
> 
> It's hard, I won't lie to you buddy. It isn't easy. I've lost a lot (of dead weight) and once where certainty lay there is at best ambiguity. But as the quote I once read and really resonates, "we cannot direct the way the wind blows but we can adjust the sales". You my friend are in control and on the right track and I want you to know that it's ok to feel the way you do. Just consider what adjustments you need to make to maximise the direction of the wind and power through the choppy waters.
> 
> Onward Brother !


Kind guidance, my friend, thanks.

I guess the nature of this forum is that you post on your own thread when things are going bad. Given how little I have been posting over the past few weeks, I can see, all things considered, life is pretty great. I think this is why it has hit me so hard - a real setback supported by my nosey mother!

Sail is set to blow away from the drama and the boys are back with me Saturday for a week - that is always a lift in spirits I look forward to.


----------



## Melrose8888

turnera said:


> You're focusing completely on the wrong things. No wonder you aren't progressing. All you see is what was taken from you. What's wrong with looking at what you now can get for yourself? You're shedding a CHEATER. Now you can get on with your life and do all the things you gave up for her. Now you can try new things an older, wiser man may enjoy. Hell, you could move halfway across the world and open up a surf shack on a beautiful beach somewhere and look at hotties in bikinis for the rest of your life.
> 
> Your whole world is ahead of you and you're too busy mourning a POS woman who couldn't keep her panties on when you should be rejoicing that you won't waste the rest of your life on a CHEATER.
> 
> T/J: Sun, funny you say that. I'm going in tomorrow to check on some possible skin cancer.


I agree with you all, I do focus too much on them. I mentioned before, I'm a pretty bad loser, so (although many can argue I haven't lost but won freedom instead) it is painful to know how rich (in all senses) their life seems.

Time to get back to focussing on me - bad wobble this one but hopefully the last major event for a long time.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> You are still looking for signs of remorse. There will be none and any interaction just gives her power.
> 
> It would be nice to be able to rage like some Game of Thrones character, but you have little kids and you have to set the example because their Mother sure as hell isn't.
> 
> She is still trying to hurt you. She will use your kids and every dirty trick in the book. And every bloody time it will sucker punch you.
> 
> The reason it hurts is because you are a normal person, with some sense of empathy and compassion. It is why she chose you. It is why she continues to try and engage you. She found a mirror to her own selfishness in her new love and finds that irresistible.. She found someone new who "knows her" but he will never be able to be her emotional compass. That was your job and because of that she will attempt to hoover you back in any way she can.
> 
> 
> If you detect anger it is because i am angry about the level of selfishness that is being shown. It is hard to fathom. But Melrose.. You have to. For the sake of your kids and for you to kick your self in the arse 20 times a day until you no longer need it.
> 
> I am no longer in contact with my Ex. My kids are no longer in contact. It came to that. They are hurt and still can not understand and frankly I can not give them an answer that explains any of it. In the end ( the real end) you just shrug your shoulders..
> 
> You picked poorly. I picked poorly. Many of us did.
> 
> *So what now..*
> 
> Here are some cliff notes of what will happen in the next year of so..
> 
> She will attempt to come back for sake of kids.
> 
> She had an argument with POSOM and is feeling lonely
> She is feeling guilt. ( no relation to remorse)
> She is missing her comfortable life
> She is tired of being seen as a homewrecker
> She is bored
> In moments she will appear remorseful.. ( that passes as soon as you respond)
> 
> She will attempt to rewrite history with friends and family
> This will go on for a long time and at some point she will at least hint that you abused her. (that one is fun)
> 
> 
> 
> She will tell the kids lies
> This will work until they are a bit older and the kids can see it for themselves. Hold your breath.. Count to 10 ( or 100)
> 
> She will ghost you
> Refuse to take calls, be unavailable for extended periods,
> She will text bomb you
> This one is odd. Long texts that make no sense. Love you/hate you . It is normally when she is feeling guilty or about to do something she will be guilty of. do not respond to them..
> 
> There are more.. But your Ex might not be as bad.. I hope
> 
> I suspect you are still in more communication than you let on and that is okay. it is incredibly difficult to get free of a narcissist . There. I said it.
> 
> https://youtu.be/jCBiUoe7YWA


_She found a mirror to her own selfishness in her new love and finds that irresistible.. She found someone new who "knows her" but he will never be able to be her emotional compass_ - Wow, this is so correct it's uncanny.

Well, although I have chosen not to speak to OBS any more, she did ask me if I had been violent towards the XWW because POSOM had told her I was 'aggressive and he needed to protect her (XWW) from me'....so the abuse claims already hit a while back.

Communication - you raise a good point. Honestly? I have sent 5 texts in the last 3 months that were not about the children. These must stop. It got me thinking though, although it is children related, she does email / send pictures to me a hell of a lot. This is a difficult balance for me. I want to know what my kids are up to but on the other hand, it triggers me and contact is providing kibbles to her. So, today I blocked her on Messenger and have asked that we only have 1 email a week, on a Friday, to catch up on the kids. Eldest has a mobile, so I can contact him that way. Texts and call between me and XWW to be used in emergency only.

The history has already been re-written and I guess, in hindsight, my parents were probably the last people she hadn't managed to tell her BS story too, so hopefully that is done and I now have a nice 'clean' set of friends who have my back. Odd feeling that my Mum might not be part of that!!!

It's interesting that his wife called him a narcissist the first time I spoke to her back in April. It appears he has managed to turn my XWW into one as well - that that possible?! Ah, who cares!!!


----------



## Melrose8888

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Stop looking for it. This is you wanting to stay miserable. Her happiness, or lack thereof, is not in your life description anymore. If she never has to work again, gets everything she ever wants who cares? As long as you love your kids, they love you and you are happy another sadness or happiness shouldn't affect you in any way. Nope, not saying it is easy just that you should change your views. When you stop looking for them to fail and live your life you'll stop caring either way. If you keep waiting for them to fail, you'll be perpetually depressed. Oh and you do realize everything isn't great right? History rewrites tend to appear when someone needs something or they are getting push back. Makes me wonder who in her family, who she was close to, balked and it had her run to your mom.
> Yes, but I'm vindictive and I could give 2 ****s what anyone would call it.


Quite right - time to stop all thoughts of what they are / aren't doing. I think this time was heightened because she told me he was going on holiday with her and the boys for the first time. All these 'firsts' I just need to get through...

*Makes me wonder who in her family, who she was close to, balked and it had her run to your mom.* - Very, very interesting observation by you - part of this holiday was her meeting up with all of her family, as they are local to the holiday location. I think her Aunts and perhaps her Mother, would have been challenging to talk to about what is going on.


----------



## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> I agree with you all, I do focus too much on them. *I mentioned before, I'm a pretty bad loser,* so (although many can argue I haven't lost but won freedom instead) it is painful to know how rich (in all senses) their life seems.
> 
> Time to get back to focussing on me - bad wobble this one but hopefully the last major event for a long time.


Tell me about losing....

I go crazy [inside] when I lose. If I cannot overcome, override an obstacle, event, dream.....I start to rattle and vibrate. My face flushes, {Mars} my spine stiffens....get pissed. 

It causes me to thirty-two degree {veer} to the left or the right. If I cannot attain a dream and own it...I go around it. Not stopping, not going backward. And this is after several run-ups {against} the obstacle. Not as good, I know.

But, I did not quit.

Get pissed, be pissed.... go around the ***** and her little pudgy boss. Go to the gym....get hard as stone. 

Get a facelift, teeth overlaid, remove the gray from your hair, learn a Martial Art.

Look so good...be so good...her eyes will light her brain on fire when she sees that new and tight butt, V shaped torso. 

In the near interim, dress up nice every time she sees you. Hair cut and styled, looking fresh, shaved and smelling good. Smile a lot.

Smiles cut worse than a Rolls Razor, made with the highest quality Sheffield Steel. 

She thinks she won. Until she sees what she lost.

Yes, she lost the angry guy. The one that she would not part the Red gashed Sea...for. He is gone.

The English bastard that now fills his pants is another Chap. A hot one. 

The Razor is attainable. 

The angry, bitter, grouchy Man must go to Abbey Wood and go to the end of the line...disappear.

The Razor will take his place. He will cut a new swath of cloth in his old hauntings.

Smiles cut to the bone. Leaving no blood vessel un-knicked. Her knickers dropping dead off her still frame when her gaze lands on the new...you.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> I agree with you all, I do focus too much on them. I mentioned before, I'm a pretty bad loser, so (although many can argue I haven't lost but won freedom instead) it is painful to know how rich (in all senses) their life seems.
> 
> Time to get back to focussing on me - bad wobble this one but hopefully the last major event for a long time.


You like to win.. So win. It is a long game dude..

I live by the beach in a big old house with my two grown up kids and another one of hers with my awesome decade younger girlfriend.


It took a long time and a lot of effort to get here. I barely recognise the guy I was in 2010. 

I would not be being honest if I didn't say that winning feels good. All those looks of pity My Ex gave me over the years just spurred me on to move forward. All those little digs and happy photos posted, all those snide remarks wedged into conversation about the kids. The holidays she could afford to take them on. The offer of "help' when things got tough. 


I do know that feeling of hopelessness you feel for yourself but mostly your kids. . Hope is the last thing to die. Let it die. 

Mostly this will be related to your kids future, the life you had seen for them. Easier than yours. safer, more secure. it was not to be. 

It is too early to build yet. your wounds are too fresh. You will be okay. It will work out. You will win.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> My good TAM friends.
> 
> Been a while but today is 100 steps forward, 150 steps back.
> 
> Long story short, my eldest son was staying at my parents for the week. XWW asked if she could collecting him from there and go on to her holiday with the boys. No problem, arranged to have all of the eldest things packed up, provided X with an update on my son’s week via email and expected them to hand over to her car with youngest son already with her. Job done.
> 
> Tonight (while driving back from watching my football teams' unexpected cup victory, I might add – so in a great mood!) I call my parents. My mum answers. I ask if handover went without hitches. Pause. Do you really want to know, she asks. Well, yes. She then goes on to tell me she invites XWW in for a cup of tea….
> POSXWW then proceeds to tell my mum that ‘there were major issues on both sides’ that ‘Chris (POSOM) wasn’t anything to do with the breakdown of the relationship’ and that ‘she knows that I am getting treatment for my depression, which is good’. Oh, and she also said 'i just wish we could all sit down over dinner, as friends, and discuss the boys one day'. So here I have my mum asking me if I’m depressed and what major issues I caused on my side?!?!?
> 
> Now, I am aware that I might be overacting here but if my parents haven’t got my back, then who the **** has?!
> 
> This raises another issue. I don’t really like my parents anymore. They don’t seem to understand me at all. One example that my Mum gave was how upset I was that I told her ‘that’s not helpful’ when, 10 days after d-day, she said ‘isn’t it such a shame, you had your whole life with her to look forward to’. I mean, just ****ing think before opening your gob. She never does. Controlling and opinionated. My Mum seems more obsessed with worrying about what I might say or so that might affect her feelings. I did discuss this in IC and have tried new methods of comms but it’s tough going.
> 
> I was depressed, yes, caused by my reaction to XWW inaction over the past 5 years. No sex, no respect, no admiration, no connection.
> 
> On top of this, and I know this sound ridiculous but POSOM, who is to join them a couple of days later, has given X his brand new Land Rover to drive down and around in for the holiday. For me this is so difficult as it acts as a symbol that they are living the high life and that cheating works and has no downsides. Well, apart from the irony that OBS tells me POSOM is depressed and suicide runs in his family...
> 
> Right now, I am back to anger, sadness and thoughts of revenge. I want to drive straight up to their workplace tomorrow and dump the evidence of the affair with HR and let them deal with the fallout. Cheating ****ers.
> 
> Honestly, I wish they would both disappear of the face of the earth……before I do.



You really need boundaries with your mom. Yes hard to do.... but not much different than with your XW.

When you ask your mom to ......... Make it understood, nothing more, nothing less when it deals

with your children and XW. When your mom crosses your boundaries, act accordingly.

I had to with my mom, especially when dementia started creeping in. Your mom is NOT your IC, she

is NOT your psychologist, she is your mom. Rose '88 when you were growing up, did you always

enjoy seeking your mom's approval? 

The Land Rover.... didn't bother you. It was where you focused your anger from the incident with 

your mom. Hell I can be sporting around in a top end Porsche this afternoon..... until the payments

start piling up.


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> You like to win.. So win. It is a long game dude..
> 
> I live by the beach in a big old house with my two grown up kids and another one of hers with my awesome decade younger girlfriend.
> 
> 
> It took a long time and a lot of effort to get here. I barely recognise the guy I was in 2010.
> 
> I would not be being honest if I didn't say that winning feels good. All those looks of pity My Ex gave me over the years just spurred me on to move forward. All those little digs and happy photos posted, all those snide remarks wedged into conversation about the kids. The holidays she could afford to take them on. The offer of "help' when things got tough.
> 
> 
> I do know that feeling of hopelessness you feel for yourself but mostly your kids. . Hope is the last thing to die. Let it die.
> 
> Mostly this will be related to your kids future, the life you had seen for them. Easier than yours. safer, more secure. it was not to be.
> 
> It is too early to build yet. your wounds are too fresh. You will be okay. It will work out. You will win.


Thanks, ing. Fantastic advice from someone who has been there and literally done it.

I really challenged my thinking about the kids but it really is their future that I have fears about, not mine. Can I be a good enough single dad? Can I navigate them through the emotional turmoil? Can I be the bigger man and not react as they tell me all the stories about XWW and POSOM? Can I smile as they tell me all the presents he has bought them? Can I do this while keeping all the plates spinning. I'm sure I have it me but will I?

Where do I find these younger women...?


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> You really need boundaries with your mom. Yes hard to do.... but not much different than with your XW.
> 
> When you ask your mom to ......... Make it understood, nothing more, nothing less when it deals
> 
> with your children and XW. When your mom crosses your boundaries, act accordingly.
> 
> I had to with my mom, especially when dementia started creeping in. Your mom is NOT your IC, she
> 
> is NOT your psychologist, she is your mom. Rose '88 when you were growing up, did you always
> 
> enjoy seeking your mom's approval?
> 
> The Land Rover.... didn't bother you. It was where you focused your anger from the incident with
> 
> your mom. Hell I can be sporting around in a top end Porsche this afternoon..... until the payments
> 
> start piling up.


I don't recall seeking approval from mum but towards the latter years of my marriage, I did towards the ex wife. In fact, my happiness was determined by whether she agreed with my statements, my jokes, my choices of films to watch.
I know this came from my insecurities about her rejecting sex.

Fun this life game, hey??


----------



## inging

You can save yourself some time with dating. According to the data that ******* has ( and that is alot) men may say that they have all these requirements for a successful relationship but actually men will typicaly just try and nab the youngest woman who will take them 

"As you can see, a man, as he gets older, searches for relatively younger and younger women. Meanwhile his upper acceptable limit hovers only a token amount above his own age. The median 31 year-old guy, for example, sets his allowable match age range from 22 to 35 — nine years younger, but only four years older, than himself. This skewed mindset worsens with age; the median 42 year-old will accept a woman up to fifteen years younger, but no more than three years older."

data blog


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> You can save yourself some time with dating. According to the data that ******* has ( and that is alot) men may say that they have all these requirements for a successful relationship but actually men will typicaly just try and nab the youngest woman who will take them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "As you can see, a man, as he gets older, searches for relatively younger and younger women. Meanwhile his upper acceptable limit hovers only a token amount above his own age. The median 31 year-old guy, for example, sets his allowable match age range from 22 to 35 ? nine years younger, but only four years older, than himself. This skewed mindset worsens with age; the median 42 year-old will accept a woman up to fifteen years younger, but no more than three years older."
> 
> data blog


As a 39yo, my settings are 18 years younger - just lookin'  - and 13 years older. The 4 I've 'dated' so far have been 40, 36, 36 and 36...


----------



## Thor

My age limits are set at 21 yrs younger and 4 yrs older. I'm 56, so that makes my age range 35 to 60, but to be honest I'm not interested above about 58. Fifty seems to be around the age when the women's appearances and health become unattractive, though I do see a certain number of women over 50 who take care of themselves and look great. Maybe some good genetics there too, but the attractive ones are physically active still, not 50+ lbs overweight.

Idk if I would be able to connect well emotionally or intellectually with a 35 yr old given the age difference, but generally the younger women are more physically appealing.

There is a noticeable difference in what the older women put in their profiles than the younger women. The older women seem a lot more jaded. They are looking more for companionship than a soul mate. The younger are a lot pickier about what they're looking for (tall, handsome, athletic, rich), mostly shallow kinds of things.

Online dating is pretty crazy.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

To be used after hitting age 40. Half your age plus 15 years plus a exponential liquid assets to burn through as you hit your 90s. Good luck chasing that dragon.


----------



## just got it 55

Melrose8888 said:


> Still feel like ****.
> 
> I know my reaction is what causes the pain but how could I not react to any of this.
> 
> Sun – I agree with your musings, as always. I am a man after all and I can see POSOMs eyes light up as he realised his tried and tested ‘charms’ were started to reap rewards with my XW. He gets a (fairly) good looking piece of skirt, 6 years younger and she gets the attention and cash of a ‘successful’ CIO.
> 
> Smile, ing? If only…I know it often all seems great on the other side but it really does feel as though it is for them. I haven’t seen any downside for them, especially as they show no signs of remorse.
> 
> Would exposure to their work just be seen as a desperate and bitter revenge tactic, now, 9 months since affair went physical? It feels it is all I have left in my arsenal to make myself feel better.


Mel because your POSXWW brought this sh!tte to your mother's house

Thats all the justification you need to expose what will always be

*The Truth
*


Put your mind at ease and do it

55


----------



## Herschel

I am 41 and I am dating a 45 soon to be 46 year old. This is definitely out of my standard range, but I haven't had any real issues with it. She stays in shape and takes care of herself. She'd probably still out live me if we got married...lol


----------



## Chuck71

As for age, I'm 45 and she is 38 but.... hadn't dated long. Used to date older women in my 20s. No... Tom Leykis didn't tell me to, actually pop did, back when I was a teen. -You run into a lot of BS and games with those in their 20s- He was right. The longer I dated my college sweetheart, the more games she tried to play. But of course....it was "like mother, like daughter."

When I M my now XW, I was 25, she was 32. Something bout dems older women. Since the D almost five years ago.... mostly younger. Last year I was dating a girl 20 years younger. Course she was flaky and I called it, twice. She's engaged now (LMAO) and from what my Hangover Crew friend said recently, neither is posting anything the last couple months. Trouble in paradise?? 

Which.... Rose'88... leads me to this. I knew.... beyond a shadow of a doubt, my XW was going to crash and burn. Admittingly.... at first, I did want to see it and relish in it. But that was before I "stepped into the light" about halfway through our 60 day D wait to it to be finalized. I never checked her profile, not one freaking time, after that low point I had, 12-11-12. My HC friends did.....

They knew when I was ready to hear the dumbass things she did and laugh, even before I did. Ever since the spring of 2013, I get a laugh out of everything she does now. Hell I should do a Top 10 Dumbass Things my XW has done.

But.... you have to let go.... for it to happen AND for you to enjoy it. If you can't get past the fact things will never be the same, when she crashes and burns... before you know it, you'll be going all Mr. Fixer with her. Then you're right back to Square 1.

Can she live happily ever after? Maybe.... but the odds of that are very slim. It's all about forgiveness. What did Conrad say.....-forgive or re-live- Chances are you will not get to "witness" her spiral but.... you'll feel it, trust me. With children you will be very aware when it occurs. But you can't "wait for it to happen." What's that old saying -A watched pot never boils- 

Your best revenge is living a happy and productive life. I know that sounds like BS but it is the truth. And bet your last dollar she will realize this. It's like we tell guys who first come here.... and want their M back...... "Improve and work on YOU.... own your POS tendencies.... it will 1-Get her attention and notice your new "hotness" and maybe try to R or 2-You are upgrading yourself for your next LTR / M. Either way, YOU win." 

She knows what she's thrown away but denial is a strong force. "Never underestimate the power of denial" Ricky Fitts-American Beauty 1999. 

Don Henley-Heart of the Matter / Forgiveness (really helped me through first break-up with first love)


----------



## Satya

Odo is 52 and I am 36. He was out of my age range boundary when dating at first, but between his maturity and the fact that I have always been thought of as an old soul and mature beyond my years, the mental ages to him feel more like 52 and 46 (or 12 and 46 depending on his mood)!

We get along better than I have in any other relationship.


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, life goes on and things are really starting to stabilise and fall into the new routine and pattern. The triggers become less and less and even when the ex does try to wind me up in our only correspondence, a weekly email about the boys, I just don’t feel the need to respond and give her the attention she is seeking.

Recent example is that I suggested that it would be good to get to a point of consistency in major ‘rules’ in the two households, mainly focussing on encouraging my youngest son to sleep in his own bed, rather than her letting him join her (and AP…) in bed each night. She, however, said the only consistency required is their happiness and that we don’t need to address the sleeping situation. I find that disappointing in our aim to have a good co-parenting relationship but it won’t change the way I want to bring up the boys, in spite of her rules.

This feeling of complete indifference towards her is unexpected. It is quite hard to understand how I can get to that point after 17 years of being with someone but I see it as a huge positive that I see her for who she is NOW and that I’m not attracted to that at all.

Slight concern, although entirely understandable, my boys appear to be getting more emotional, for example my 7yo son cries every time the ex leaves and, as per above, the 4yo has huge separation anxiety at nights, so wakes me up multiple times. I feel more capable to deal with these episodes and encourage them to talk through their feelings with me any time they wish. Still saddens me to see them upset though.

I did offer up the ex to see the boy’s mid-week on ‘my’ weeks (we are 50/50 one week on, one off) but she refused saying that would be too disruptive and confusing for them. I find that response hard to believe and instead I believe it just wouldn’t fit in her routine of staying at AP’s house 80 miles away… Shame but I guess I shouldn’t have expected any less.

I’ve continued to distance myself from my mum after her willingness to listen to and believe the ex’s story and I find my mood in a much, much better place for not ‘having’ to speak to her. One to pick up in IC, as that must mean something…

Dating has been going well. Had a crazy period a few weeks ago and went on 5 first dates and one, a local lass (42, mum of one) went really well. Seen her twice more since, slight concern, mostly down to my fear of being labelled a hypocrite, is that she is still going through divorce. Got my eyes and mind open on that one but it feels good for now and she is HD, so feeling is at least that area is covered, although taking it slowly, learning from past dating!

Outside of all that I am still hitting the gym, seeing friends, playing football, going to gigs, running, playing the guitar more etc. and work continues to go well. All helps to keep the mind healthy. Smile and the whole world smiles with you…


----------



## Satya

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, life goes on and things are really starting to stabilise and fall into the new routine and pattern. The triggers become less and less and even when the ex does try to wind me up in our only correspondence, a weekly email about the boys, I just don’t feel the need to respond and give her the attention she is seeking.
> 
> Recent example is that I suggested that it would be good to get to a point of consistency in major ‘rules’ in the two households, mainly focussing on encouraging my youngest son to sleep in his own bed, rather than her letting him join her (and AP…) in bed each night. She, however, said the only consistency required is their happiness and that we don’t need to address the sleeping situation. I find that disappointing in our aim to have a good co-parenting relationship but it won’t change the way I want to bring up the boys, in spite of her rules.
> 
> This feeling of complete indifference towards her is unexpected. It is quite hard to understand how I can get to that point after 17 years of being with someone but I see it as a huge positive that I see her for who she is NOW and that I’m not attracted to that at all.
> 
> Slight concern, although entirely understandable, my boys appear to be getting more emotional, for example my 7yo son cries every time the ex leaves and, as per above, the 4yo has huge separation anxiety at nights, so wakes me up multiple times. I feel more capable to deal with these episodes and encourage them to talk through their feelings with me any time they wish. Still saddens me to see them upset though.
> 
> I did offer up the ex to see the boy’s mid-week on ‘my’ weeks (we are 50/50 one week on, one off) but she refused saying that would be too disruptive and confusing for them. I find that response hard to believe and instead I believe it just wouldn’t fit in her routine of staying at AP’s house 80 miles away… Shame but I guess I shouldn’t have expected any less.
> 
> I’ve continued to distance myself from my mum after her willingness to listen to and believe the ex’s story and I find my mood in a much, much better place for not ‘having’ to speak to her. One to pick up in IC, as that must mean something…
> 
> Dating has been going well. Had a crazy period a few weeks ago and went on 5 first dates and one, a local lass (42, mum of one) went really well. Seen her twice more since, slight concern, mostly down to my fear of being labelled a hypocrite, is that she is still going through divorce. Got my eyes and mind open on that one but it feels good for now and she is HD, so feeling is at least that area is covered, although taking it slowly, learning from past dating!
> 
> Outside of all that I am still hitting the gym, seeing friends, playing football, going to gigs, running, playing the guitar more etc. and work continues to go well. All helps to keep the mind healthy. Smile and the whole world smiles with you…


Are your boys in therapy?

If not, you should REALLY consider the benefit of them learning to process and release feelings to a neutral therapist, learn coping mechanisms for anxiety, etc.

It is good that you communicate with them, but you're not going to be able to be objective, especially not where your ex's behavior is concerned. A good therapist can and should be.


----------



## Bananapeel

Melrose8888 said:


> Recent example is that I suggested that it would be good to get to a point of consistency in major ‘rules’ in the two households, mainly focussing on encouraging my youngest son to sleep in his own bed, rather than her letting him join her (and AP…) in bed each night. She, however, said the only consistency required is their happiness and that we don’t need to address the sleeping situation. I find that disappointing in our aim to have a good co-parenting relationship but it won’t change the way I want to bring up the boys, in spite of her rules.


My XWW did the same thing. Only I wasn't as nice as you. I basically told her it was unacceptable for kids to be sleeping in bed with an adult non-parent due to the risk of sexual abuse (either then or in the future because the kid became accustomed to those abnormal boundaries). There is also a risk of physical abuse if she and her BF were to get in a physical altercation. I basically let her know that if she continued we'd be heading to court and I'd be fighting for full custody because that arrangement is detrimental to the kids. She couldn't afford a court fight and backed off and apologized.


----------



## Chuck71

'Rose.... you can't force her to be a good parent. How old was the older son when he started to

sleep by himself? She could be -playing stubborn- just to get under your skin, who knows....

I agree the kids need someone to talk to about how they view things, not a parent and sure

not your mom. Maybe a therapist saying something about your youngest's sleeping arrangement

will push her to have him sleep more alone. 

Time will come when your mom mentions why you have been distant. Tell her why.... and nothing

more. No arguments... "I'm sorry you feel that way" and exit. Hopefully she realizes this

and wants to better the relationship.... time will tell. I had to do this with mom for about a 

year. First time was HARD.... it got easier. Yes it was dementia but I also had to keep my distance 

for my own damn sanity. 

As for the dating.... like I told Gridcom... the older you get, the more broken people you meet.

It's a different world compared to when you were 25. Learn the difference between someone being 

"damaged" and "broken." You do not want any more kids so you are able to date, any age if you wish.

Be aware you will meet D females with children. Their backstory almost always makes the XH

out as the bad guy. Some are true, some are not, but almost all have doctored their D

spill, to meet their needs. If you listen close and observe, you can tell pretty quick.

Shy away from the ones wanting a LTR right out of the gate.... there's a reason why they do.

Be honest that you're still re-couping from the D and trying to stabilize the new life you

and your boys now have to lead. A healthy female will respect that.


----------



## Melrose8888

I did call my insurance to enquire about the kids counselling. Apparently, they need consistent proof of major regression in the boys before they consider it. Doesn't stop me going privately but my finances do. The eldest has a very decent non religious 'godfather', so thinking an afternoon out at the park with him, to let him chat objectively (he is a close mutual friend who doesn't not take sides) might be a good starting point.

The sleeping in the same bed as AP would have concerned me a few months ago but now, I don't know. As much as the AP is a cheating SOAB, the OMW gave him a good report of being a good father. I think I have to trust here as anything else would give the ex too much satisfaction that she is getting to me. I, of course, remind the boys to tell me of any odd behaviour from either the ex or the AP.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> 'Rose.... you can't force her to be a good parent. How old was the older son when he started to
> 
> sleep by himself? She could be -playing stubborn- just to get under your skin, who knows....
> 
> I agree the kids need someone to talk to about how they view things, not a parent and sure
> 
> not your mom. Maybe a therapist saying something about your youngest's sleeping arrangement
> 
> will push her to have him sleep more alone.
> 
> Time will come when your mom mentions why you have been distant. Tell her why.... and nothing
> 
> more. No arguments... "I'm sorry you feel that way" and exit. Hopefully she realizes this
> 
> and wants to better the relationship.... time will tell. I had to do this with mom for about a
> 
> year. First time was HARD.... it got easier. Yes it was dementia but I also had to keep my distance
> 
> for my own damn sanity.
> 
> As for the dating.... like I told Gridcom... the older you get, the more broken people you meet.
> 
> It's a different world compared to when you were 25. Learn the difference between someone being
> 
> "damaged" and "broken." You do not want any more kids so you are able to date, any age if you wish.
> 
> Be aware you will meet D females with children. Their backstory almost always makes the XH
> 
> out as the bad guy. Some are true, some are not, but almost all have doctored their D
> 
> spill, to meet their needs. If you listen close and observe, you can tell pretty quick.
> 
> Shy away from the ones wanting a LTR right out of the gate.... there's a reason why they do.
> 
> Be honest that you're still re-couping from the D and trying to stabilize the new life you
> 
> and your boys now have to lead. A healthy female will respect that.


Eldest was fully independent at bedtime before he turned 4 - we were fairly strict on him staying in bed. Part of our disagreements on parenting surround this. She wanted to bring up the youngest differently because he was 'different'. In hindsight, this change in tactics coincided with her getting her new job and being influenced by APs style. Funny how easy it is to see at 40k...

No idea where my mum's head is at but as I say, not really my concern and I'm in a good spot. I will follow your advice when she does reach out to me.

Damaged v. Broken. So simple yet so true. I think I can see that fairly early on. Current women I'm dating seems very genuine and her back story seems very honest.

Slight curveball - there is a woman at work (!) who I had always admired from a distance (I would call her 'dream woman' to myself). Well, guess who popped up on Tinder last night... Had no idea she was having marriage issues. She has 2 kids same age as mine and lives fairly close by. Think I would kick myself if I didn't at least ask her out for a drink but hesitate due to current dating situation and the fact she works here (albeit in a building with 700+ people, so manageable).

Food for thought...


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Eldest was fully independent at bedtime before he turned 4 - we were fairly strict on him staying in bed. Part of our disagreements on parenting surround this. She wanted to bring up the youngest differently because he was 'different'. In hindsight, this change in tactics coincided with her getting her new job and being influenced by APs style. Funny how easy it is to see at 40k...
> 
> No idea where my mum's head is at but as I say, not really my concern and I'm in a good spot. I will follow your advice when she does reach out to me.
> 
> Damaged v. Broken. So simple yet so true. I think I can see that fairly early on. Current women I'm dating seems very genuine and her back story seems very honest.
> 
> Slight curveball - there is a woman at work (!) who I had always admired from a distance (I would call her 'dream woman' to myself). Well, guess who popped up on Tinder last night... Had no idea she was having marriage issues. She has 2 kids same age as mine and lives fairly close by. Think I would kick myself if I didn't at least ask her out for a drink but hesitate due to current dating situation and the fact she works here (albeit in a building with 700+ people, so manageable).
> 
> Food for thought...


So, she just "popped up on Tinder", did she? You had no idea she was having marriage issues?

Was *that* what happened with your wife's OM? Your wife "just popped up on Tinder" and OM had no idea she was having marriage issues? :scratchhead:


----------



## Bananapeel

Don't date a married woman, even if she is looking for a tinder hookup. That screams that you have low self-esteem and can't find anyone unattached.


----------



## Melrose8888

MattMatt said:


> So, she just "popped up on Tinder", did she? You had no idea she was having marriage issues?
> 
> Was *that* what happened with your wife's OM? Your wife "just popped up on Tinder" and OM had no idea she was having marriage issues? :scratchhead:


Ha! POSOM single handily hired, groomed, promoted and chased my ex.

But I get your point... 

(This one is divorced, I checked!)


----------



## Melrose8888

Bananapeel said:


> Don't date a married woman, even if she is looking for a tinder hookup. That screams that you have low self-esteem and can't find anyone unattached.


Was my bad choice of words - she is divorced, I just would've never had guessed she was going through that!


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Was my bad choice of words - she is divorced, I just would've never had guessed she was going through that!


I see what you mean.

But how did OM know your wife was on the hunt of fresh prey?

Perhaps he didn't?

This could have been her view of him:-










Like the Big Bopper said all those years ago:-



> Chantilly lace and a pretty face and a pony tail hangin' down
> A wiggle and a walk and a giggle and a talk made the world go round
> There ain't nothing in the world
> Like a big eyed girl to make me act so funny make me spend my money
> Make me fool real loose like a long necked goose


She might have been on the prowl for the next sucker, sorry, husband.


----------



## turnera

Bananapeel said:


> My XWW did the same thing. Only I wasn't as nice as you. I basically told her it was unacceptable for kids to be sleeping in bed with an adult non-parent due to the risk of sexual abuse (either then or in the future because the kid became accustomed to those abnormal boundaries). There is also a risk of physical abuse if she and her BF were to get in a physical altercation. I basically let her know that if she continued we'd be heading to court and I'd be fighting for full custody because that arrangement is detrimental to the kids. She couldn't afford a court fight and backed off and apologized.


This is what I thought, too. It's the rare step-parent - and even rarer affair partner - who will love your kids as much as you do.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose, no matter what recommendations you got from OMW about him being a good father, him sleeping in the same bed as your son IS WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE! I know that you worry about it appearing as if she is getting to you, but for this sort of thing, it should get to you! Warn her in a very calm manner that if it continues, you will report him to the authorities. I know for sure that social services here in the UK will act on it immediately! And it will certainly get up his nose to be viewed in that light by all who know (including your eldest boy).


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Eldest was fully independent at bedtime before he turned 4 - we were fairly strict on him staying in bed. Part of our disagreements on parenting surround this. She wanted to bring up the youngest differently because he was 'different'. In hindsight, this change in tactics coincided with her getting her new job and being influenced by APs style. Funny how easy it is to see at 40k...
> 
> No idea where my mum's head is at but as I say, not really my concern and I'm in a good spot. I will follow your advice when she does reach out to me.
> 
> Damaged v. Broken. So simple yet so true. I think I can see that fairly early on. Current women I'm dating seems very genuine and her back story seems very honest.
> 
> Slight curveball - there is a woman at work (!) who I had always admired from a distance (I would call her 'dream woman' to myself). Well, guess who popped up on Tinder last night... Had no idea she was having marriage issues. She has 2 kids same age as mine and lives fairly close by. Think I would kick myself if I didn't at least ask her out for a drink but hesitate due to current dating situation and the fact she works here (albeit in a building with 700+ people, so manageable).
> 
> Food for thought...


Are you just dating your current gal or are you exclusive? Whichever answer you give, is

she aware of this also? Used to be just those two choices but today, people like to add a third......

Are we dating and having sex but are free to date others as long as sex is not on the table

with them? Y2Ks love the last one but to me, it's just a F' up waiting to happen.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> Slight curveball - there is a woman at work (!) who I had always admired from a distance (I would call her 'dream woman' to myself). Well, guess who popped up on Tinder last night... Had no idea she was having marriage issues. She has 2 kids same age as mine and lives fairly close by. Think I would kick myself if I didn't at least ask her out for a drink but hesitate due to current dating situation and the fact she works here (albeit in a building with 700+ people, so manageable).
> 
> Food for thought...


Dude.

Kick yourself in the ass right now.

No.

Married.

Women.

ETA: Just read that she’s divorced.

This is where I caution you on the perils of dating co-workers.

Or anyone from Tinder, really.


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Melrose, no matter what recommendations you got from OMW about him being a good father, him sleeping in the same bed as your son IS WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE! I know that you worry about it appearing as if she is getting to you, but for this sort of thing, it should get to you! Warn her in a very calm manner that if it continues, you will report him to the authorities. I know for sure that social services here in the UK will act on it immediately! And it will certainly get up his nose to be viewed in that light by all who know (including your eldest boy).


Well, something to keep in the locker, I guess.

Shame, every time I see your name pop up, lamancha, I hope you've got some terrible news on the POSOMs side!


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Are you just dating your current gal or are you exclusive? Whichever answer you give, is
> 
> she aware of this also? Used to be just those two choices but today, people like to add a third......
> 
> Are we dating and having sex but are free to date others as long as sex is not on the table
> 
> with them? Y2Ks love the last one but to me, it's just a F' up waiting to happen.


So just dating - no exclusivity yet - she is the one who has been separated for a year but isn't yet divorced. Not had sex yet.

I prefer to be exclusive, so I agree with you Chuck and would probably raise it when I see her on Saturday but, I think I have to scratch that work girl itch - I am well aware of workplace dating but think it could work well, in this case. I might not even be her type but only one way to find out - aftershave on tomorrow and ask he for a coffee!


----------



## Chuck71

If you are just dating, nothing wrong with this. If sex is off the table, not hard to see where you

stand. I would not recommend workplace dating to anyone over the age of 25 unless....

you are single, no kids, not into LTRs. Then it's just an ongoing party. Workplace dating has too

many additional intangibles. You break-up.... whole office knows about it, the fall-out is thrown

around the workplace, you're water cooler gossip, and half the office shuns you.

Sorry... we may work together, go out and party from time to time but I do not want everyone 

knowing my personal life. That just invites trouble. Plus... most affairs start..... in the workplace.

If you do meet her, be careful. All it takes is an allegation and your job is on the line......

whether it is true or not.


----------



## Melrose8888

OK TAM, dilemma time.
Current woman I'm dating is in the process of divorce. Sexless marriage that she worked at for years and 6 months after he told her i don't love you.
A year ago she decided to split and they separated.

Tonight, I asked about her dating since and she very willingly offered up a honest story that, straight after she split with her ex, that she joined a website to have casual (safe) sex to boost her self esteem.

I get that but, she had sex with two married men during this time...

On one hand I'm gutted that she'd do that but I can tell this was a 3 month period she had to go through and since then, she's dated but not had sex.

I expressed my disappointment that she had chosen to get involved with married men but gut feel is she has high morals and that this was just an easy way to validate herself after years of rejection.

I know many will say red flag and go find someone better but opinions welcome.


----------



## Marc878

Making excuses for a cheater? Really?

How did you like getting cheated on?

I suppose the married men she cheated with had great excuses too.

Maybe you should go over and kiss your wife's ass for cheating on you since it doesnt bother you now.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose you are kidding right?


----------



## TX-SC

Screwing two married men is a definate red flag. You probably don't have the whole, or correct, story of why they divorced. I'd move on.


----------



## 3putt

I'm really shocked you even have to ask this question.

Incredible.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> OK TAM, dilemma time.
> Current woman I'm dating is in the process of divorce. Sexless marriage that she worked at for years and 6 months after he told her i don't love you.
> A year ago she decided to split and they separated.
> 
> Tonight, I asked about her dating since and she very willingly offered up a honest story that, straight after she split with her ex, that she joined a website to have casual (safe) sex to boost her self esteem.
> 
> I get that but, she had sex with two married men during this time...
> 
> On one hand I'm gutted that she'd do that but I can tell this was a 3 month period she had to go through and since then, she's dated but not had sex.
> 
> I expressed my disappointment that she had chosen to get involved with married men but gut feel is she has high morals and that this was just an easy way to validate herself after years of rejection.
> 
> I know many will say red flag and go find someone better but opinions welcome.


Not relationship material.

Dump her.


----------



## turnera

What's the most important thing about a partner?


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> So just dating - no exclusivity yet - she is the one who has been separated for a year but isn't yet divorced. Not had sex yet.
> 
> I prefer to be exclusive, so I agree with you Chuck and would probably raise it when I see her on Saturday but, I think I have to scratch that work girl itch - I am well aware of workplace dating but think it could work well, in this case. I might not even be her type but only one way to find out - aftershave on tomorrow and ask he for a coffee!


I met my wife at work. Together 15 years. We didn't tell anyone we were dating for about half a year. She left the job (she wanted to do so for a long time so it made sense) about a half a year after we started to get serious. It can be done, but you have to be thoughtful about it. Both people have to be adults.


----------



## Evinrude58

Melrose8888 said:


> OK TAM, dilemma time.
> Current woman I'm dating is in the process of divorce. Sexless marriage that she worked at for years and 6 months after he told her i don't love you.
> A year ago she decided to split and they separated.
> 
> Tonight, I asked about her dating since and she very willingly offered up a honest story that, straight after she split with her ex, that she joined a website to have casual (safe) sex to boost her self esteem.
> 
> I get that but, she had sex with two married men during this time...
> 
> On one hand I'm gutted that she'd do that but I can tell this was a 3 month period she had to go through and since then, she's dated but not had sex.
> 
> I expressed my disappointment that she had chosen to get involved with married men but gut feel is she has high morals and that this was just an easy way to validate herself after years of rejection.
> 
> I know many will say red flag and go find someone better but opinions welcome.


She says she had sex with married men and your gut says she has "high morals"?
Dude, your gut is a lousy judge of character. Try using your brains instead.
That's one of the oddest commentss I've read on here. I have other thoughts but think better of typing them.
I'll just say this is the exact way your ex dealt with the cognitive dissonance of thinking the man she was cheating with was a good person.

Btw, "in the process of getting divorced" is otherwise known in some circles as still MARRIED.

I'm shocked that a betrayed husband would be this eager to date a married woman that has sex with multiple married men. 

Melrose, if you don't wise up you're gonna have some heartache.


----------



## Satya

Thank her for her honesty, then let her go if that doesn't suit your values.

Do we really have to choose for you? Have the confidence to know what you want, and follow through. We can't live your life or make adult decisions for you.


----------



## TaDor

@Melrose8888 : your wife cheated on you. She broke up your family... hurt you and your kids.

And you are dating a woman who maybe cheating on her husband to DATE you... and has had sex with two married men before meeting you. She has low-morals. You also lower your standards to continue this path. YOU should know better.

She's a cheater. Hell, you might as well have stayed with your wife and asked for an open marriage or something.

Dump her, try again.


----------



## MattMatt

It may be that her affair was a result of her husband "breaking her."

However if she could help other married people cheat on their spouses, that is not good.

She needs counselling and she needs to work on herself.

I was in a similar situation to you.

And did I eventually get cheated on? Yes. I did.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> OK TAM, dilemma time.
> Current woman I'm dating is in the process of divorce. Sexless marriage that she worked at for years and 6 months after he told her i don't love you.
> A year ago she decided to split and they separated.
> 
> Tonight, I asked about her dating since and she very willingly offered up a honest story that, straight after she split with her ex, that she joined a website to have casual (safe) sex to boost her self esteem.
> 
> I get that but, she had sex with two married men during this time...
> 
> On one hand I'm gutted that she'd do that but I can tell this was a 3 month period she had to go through and since then, she's dated but not had sex.
> 
> I expressed my disappointment that she had chosen to get involved with married men but gut feel is she has high morals and that this was just an easy way to validate herself after years of rejection.
> 
> I know many will say red flag and go find someone better but opinions welcome.


'Rose "gf" : POSOM

'Rose : OWH of 'Rose "gf"

You are OWH of your "gf"

I'm sure "everything" she told you is "true" 

50k..... observe, without emotion

What do you see?


----------



## Chuck71

MattMatt said:


> It may be that her affair was a result of her husband "breaking her."
> 
> However if she could help other married people cheat on their spouses, that is not good.
> 
> She needs counselling and she needs to work on herself.
> 
> I was in a similar situation to you.
> 
> And did I eventually get cheated on? Yes. I did.


Her boat to row..... don't be a string.

Get tested, like yesterday. When you play with fire.....


----------



## Melrose8888

Usual harsh but fair responses, thanks.

OK. So I'm thinking too much with my ****. I've not had sex with her but my god, if there ever was going to be someone who matched me in sexual drive, fantasies, frequency etc, it's her.

She's local, I've been round hers, I spoken to a mutual friend, I know her story is true (of course, he will have his side of the story too) but it all stacks up.

Irrespective, she is still married, I have told her that isn't something I find comfortable with and, when she called me this morning to ask how I felt about it today, I told her I found it disappointing that she chose an extra marital affairs website to seek her confidence boost, that she was selfish in thinking that was the safest option and didn't think of the impact on the OMW. She admits she made a bad decision based off sexual drive and reiterated that she was faithful throughout her 17 year relationship, up to that point. Usual line of, it's in the past. Well, isn't everything??

Chuck - viewing from 40k? She is a wounded, low self esteem, sex starved mother, who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it. She wants to move on, she wants to be adored, she wants lots of sex.

I'm not interested in a serious LTR atm and nor is she, so I guess it's weighing up my morals on both her marital status and whether no strings sex is worth it, knowing she did cheat in the past.

If I am coming across as too much of a hypocrite, feel free to knock me back down.


----------



## Satya

Melrose8888 said:


> Usual harsh but fair responses, thanks.
> 
> OK. So I'm thinking too much with my ****. I've not had sex with her but my god, if there ever was going to be someone who matched me in sexual drive, fantasies, frequency etc, it's her.
> 
> She's local, I've been round hers, I spoken to a mutual friend, I know her story is true (of course, he will have his side of the story too) but it all stacks up.
> 
> Irrespective, she is still married, I have told her that isn't something I find comfortable with and, when she called me this morning to ask how I felt about it today, I told her I found it disappointing that she chose an extra marital affairs website to seek her confidence boost, that she was selfish in thinking that was the safest option and didn't think of the impact on the OMW. She admits she made a bad decision based off sexual drive and reiterated that she was faithful throughout her 17 year relationship, up to that point. Usual line of, it's in the past. Well, isn't everything??
> 
> Chuck - viewing from 40k? She is a wounded, low self esteem, sex starved mother, who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it. She wants to move on, she wants to be adored, she wants lots of sex.
> 
> I'm not interested in a serious LTR atm and nor is she, so I guess it's weighing up my morals on both her marital status and whether no strings sex is worth it, knowing she did cheat in the past.
> 
> If I am coming across as too much of a hypocrite, feel free to knock me back down.


I won't call you a hypocrite, because what I may call you is irrelevant. What do YOU think of all this?

I will say one thing. You're quick to defend her choices. We all make poor decisions in life at one time or another. We all don't want to be judged for them. I told Odo every questionable thing I'd done in my past, and expressed my regrets. Thing is, I MADE SURE he had to give ample time to know for himself if I was actually the person I said I wanted to be going forward, or I'd I was still the kind of person from my past.

You're both probably horny, you're assuming she's exactly what you want/need. So, is she Ms. Right Now? Because I would say, given the way you describe her current state, that she's not anything close to Ms. Right. 

But it's your choice. I just can't really fathom with all the advice you've received here, that you can't seem to translate it to what I'd interpret to be the best advice for your own self.


----------



## GusPolinski

turnera said:


> What's the most important thing about a partner?


As in the one thing that should eliminate one from consideration as a potential partner?

Integrity.

Or, specifically, a lack thereof.


----------



## GusPolinski

Melrose8888 said:


> Usual harsh but fair responses, thanks.
> 
> OK. So I'm thinking too much with my ****. I've not had sex with her but my god, if there ever was going to be someone who matched me in sexual drive, fantasies, frequency etc, it's her.
> 
> She's local, I've been round hers, I spoken to a mutual friend, I know her story is true (of course, he will have his side of the story too) but it all stacks up.
> 
> Irrespective, she is still married, I have told her that isn't something I find comfortable with and, when she called me this morning to ask how I felt about it today, I told her I found it disappointing that she chose an extra marital affairs website to seek her confidence boost, that she was selfish in thinking that was the safest option and didn't think of the impact on the OMW. She admits she made a bad decision based off sexual drive and reiterated that she was faithful throughout her 17 year relationship, up to that point. Usual line of, it's in the past. Well, isn't everything??
> 
> Chuck - viewing from 40k? *She is a wounded, low self esteem, sex starved mother, who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it.* She wants to move on, she wants to be adored, she wants lots of sex.
> 
> I'm not interested in a serious LTR atm and nor is she, so I guess it's weighing up my morals on both her marital status and whether no strings sex is worth it, knowing she did cheat in the past.
> 
> If I am coming across as too much of a hypocrite, feel free to knock me back down.


...with married men.

Dude, you’re rationalizing. Get the hamster off its wheel and see her for what she is.

“Just sex” is fine and all... right up until you catch a terminal case of “the feels”.

Not worth catching it with her.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Your picker is completely broken. Send the GF on her adulterous way. Unless you are in need of more drama, then hang on to her.


----------



## Thor

Melrose8888 said:


> Tonight, I asked about her dating since and she very willingly offered up a honest story that, straight after she split with her ex, that she joined a website to have casual (safe) sex to boost her self esteem.


This part is what worries me for long term dating material.

Now perhaps divorce is a very long process where you live, but still she went from living with her husband to going online to hook up to boost her self esteem. She gets self esteem from men wanting to have sex with her.

The fact she is not yet divorced and you are at least the 3rd man she's had sex with tells me she is not likely to stick around with you. Something shinier is going to catch her attention. If this behavior of hers was years in the past, then it might be different. If she was already divorced for a few years before you met her and she'd had a ltr of some sort already, I'd be willing to accept she had moved from the phase of ego boosting sex _but would want to see no other red flags_ if I were to consider any kind of ltr with her.

Around here on the dating websites I have only seen one or maybe two women's profiles which say they are interested in dating someone who is separated. All the rest specify divorced, widowed, or never married. Lots of women write in their descriptions to not bother contacting them if you are not officially divorced yet. NSA sex is a completely different phase than long term dating.

Bottom line is I don't think she is long term material, so I wouldn't get attached. If she is fun to do things with and fun in bed, I don't see harm in casual dating and sex with her.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Usual harsh but fair responses, thanks.
> 
> OK. So I'm thinking too much with my ****. I've not had sex with her but my god, if there ever was going to be someone who matched me in sexual drive, fantasies, frequency etc, it's her.
> 
> She's local, I've been round hers, I spoken to a mutual friend, I know her story is true (of course, he will have his side of the story too) but it all stacks up.
> 
> Irrespective, she is still married, I have told her that isn't something I find comfortable with and, when she called me this morning to ask how I felt about it today, I told her I found it disappointing that she chose an extra marital affairs website to seek her confidence boost, that she was selfish in thinking that was the safest option and didn't think of the impact on the OMW. She admits she made a bad decision based off sexual drive and reiterated that she was faithful throughout her 17 year relationship, up to that point. Usual line of, it's in the past. Well, isn't everything??
> 
> Chuck - viewing from 40k? She is a wounded, low self esteem, sex starved mother, who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it. She wants to move on, she wants to be adored, she wants lots of sex.
> 
> I'm not interested in a serious LTR atm and nor is she, so I guess it's weighing up my morals on both her marital status and whether no strings sex is worth it, knowing she did cheat in the past.
> 
> If I am coming across as too much of a hypocrite, feel free to knock me back down.


If this female is wanting to live again, she is going about it, in the worst way. Perfect example

of a "crash and burn." Keep in mind.... often WS return to their spouse. When he asked for

transparency.....and gets it....he may very well come looking for you. I'm sure she painted him

black as coal (and most of it may be true) but.... wasn't that how your WW painted you?

-But Chuck.... my situation was different- Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you want to bang her, go

right ahead. Not saying you will feel this but when you trigger about your WW cheating.....

you won't feel really good about yourself.


----------



## lucy999

Melrose8888 said:


> I get that but, she had sex with two married men during this time...


NOPE.
NOPE.
oh, and
NOPE.


----------



## turnera

Melrose8888 said:


> She is a wounded, low self esteem, sex starved mother, who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it. She wants to move on, she wants to be adored, she wants lots of sex.


God, a nightmare if I ever heard one. I'd tell her you'll remain friends while she goes through the therapy she should be going through to realize her worth and you'll see down the road where things may lead. You SAY you won't get serious, but everyone says that. If you want to NOT get serious, don't contact her more than once a week. It's time - frequency - that causes you to get serious, even if you don't mean to.


----------



## sokillme

Melrose8888 said:


> OK TAM, dilemma time.
> Current woman I'm dating is in the process of divorce. Sexless marriage that she worked at for years and 6 months after he told her i don't love you.
> A year ago she decided to split and they separated.
> 
> Tonight, I asked about her dating since and she very willingly offered up a honest story that, straight after she split with her ex, that she joined a website to have casual (safe) sex to boost her self esteem.
> 
> I get that but, she had sex with two married men during this time...
> 
> On one hand I'm gutted that she'd do that but I can tell this was a 3 month period she had to go through and since then, she's dated but not had sex.
> 
> I expressed my disappointment that she had chosen to get involved with married men but gut feel is she has high morals and that this was just an easy way to validate herself after years of rejection.
> 
> I know many will say red flag and go find someone better but opinions welcome.


Yeah no man. Bad choice and you know it. That girl is a time sink.


----------



## Red Sonja

Melrose8888 said:


> I expressed my disappointment that she had chosen to get involved with married men but gut feel is she has high morals and that this was just *an easy way to validate herself after years of rejection*.


Sure it was easy not to think about the wife and children whose family she was putting at risk; all she cared about was getting what she wanted.

Was she also thinking "married men" because they might be more likely to just want sex (no attachments) and therefore not become a problem for her?

Ick, just ick.


----------



## TaDor

@Melrose8888 : After you have added more info. That a friend of yours says she's legit. Keep the following in mind.

You don't KNOW a thing about how good she at sex. I've had sex with many women - some that weren't worth 2 minutes to those that leaves marks. Whatever the two of your talked about is fantasy at this moment.

Good points by many.
I've had sex with a woman who was seperated (her husband was sleeping with other women during this period) and AFAIK - they were headed for divorce anyway, even thou she still wanted him back. That was years ago. The seperation lasted almost 2 years. They have been together since then, longer than before the seperation. Just ran into her a few weeks ago. We hugged, talked for about 10 minutes - they are doing great. 
We talked abit about the amusing sex we had - for a bit.(we did things I can't do with my wife) There is ZERO chance of us ever having sex with each other.

You don't know the full story about this woman. Since the divorce is confirmed - she is OPEN SEASON for sex with others. If I was in the same position as you, I'd hit it.
*BUT* the fact she made a point to have sex with married men (can easily be more than two guys) - makes her a cheater - and for that reason, I doubt I'd want to hit that.
And I agree with Chuck71 , your D-Day and breakup is very soon... You are likely to trigger. You'd have to be OKAY with a cheater to shag one - you are looking at possible problems.

I'd only put her in ONS / NSA box. If you really wanna go there - nobody here can stop you. You are both damaged people. Sex is fun and easy - hit it if you must. But don't talk to her daily. Don't really date. I mean, like only see her 2 times a month... with the GOAL of dating others.

When I was single and meeting chicks at clubs... ONS / NSA / Bootcalls meant I didn't talk with them much outside the bedroom. They were not on my mind. Their problems were not mine... mine was not theirs.

I'm not completely against that you should have sex with her. Single-me (pre-married) would have less problems with it. Post affair/BS dad means I do.
She said she made a mistake with those two guys... What can she do to make it GOOD?
I'd say - track down their wives, contact them somehow. Let them know their husbands are cheaters (Those guys have likely banged a few women on those sites).

Wear a condom.

Good luck.


----------



## SunCMars

turnera said:


> God, a nightmare if I ever heard one. I'd tell her you'll remain friends while she goes through the therapy she should be going through to realize her worth and you'll see down the road where things may lead. You SAY you won't get serious, but everyone says that. If you want to NOT get serious, don't contact her more than once a week. It's time - frequency - that causes you to get serious, even if you don't mean to.


Yes, I agree with all the advice 'against' dating her. Especially Gus's quip about her lack of integrity.
You are a nice guy with decent morals. That is why you are having problems with her situation.

You are waiting for enough of us to say, Yes, dip your wick.

I say, No. Even after her divorce is final. 

Unless you are 'just' looking just for sex. And you are not.

You say everything about her is exactly what you want in a women, especially the sex part, the sex drive.
Uh, you also said you have not slept with her Yet! So, how do you know?

You have put hope ahead of the the actual facts. Hope, not from Ontario.
What we want to be true, rarely is.

Hope is a well rounded proposition. We create it that way.
Truth is always sharp edged. Many angles, facets.

Just Sayin'


----------



## MattMatt

There can be a problem with some people. Their spouse "breaks" them in some way. Physically or mentally abuses them, cheats on them or leaves them for someone else.

There is a tendency for some of these people to lash out at society. They have been hurt so they share the hurt by helping other people to cheat or they seek out other people who are broken for one reason or another.

It's as if their ex has left a tiny iron filing stuck to their moral compass and they lose their way for a time.

Some can get their compass demagnetised others, sadly, can't.

After my first girlfriend dumped me for a con artist and my first LTR girlfriend dumped me for a woman, I felt broken and I lost my way for a while. It was strange, it was as if I had become someone that, previously, I would never have imagined myself as being.


----------



## bandit.45

You are better off going out and hiring an escort than trying to bed this woman. She's dangerous Melrose, and she's a lousy candidate for even a mere FWB.


----------



## TaDor

I had dated and had a FWB relationship with an ex-cheater. We're still friends today - and she helped me soon after D-Day... I'm good with her.

She cheated on her husband a number of times and the divorced before the age of 21. From that point on, she did not get into any monogamous relationships. She was honest with her sexuality and what she has to offer. I've known her for over 10 years. She's single and she is open that she isn't with any ONE guy. She's also not a sloot and just bangs any guy that wants her lady parts.

So with that, I respect her.
Maybe she gets points in telling you she was the OW to two men. But she didn't go hunting for innocent men either.

There are plenty of unattached men who would be happy to have sex wit her (or any woman)... so she should NOT do that again, ever.


----------



## ButtPunch

Dude...wake up!

Red flag can't get any bigger.


----------



## Melrose8888

It's true, she's not marriage material, low integrity but I'm not after a serious LTR (well aware feelings can develop quickly and have that flagged in my mind).

Will it sound harsh and accepting of her behaviour if I didn't trigger if we had sex?! For me, it shows I am actually mentally away from the lows that my EXWWs affair brought.

So, she made a mistake, a very bad judgment and she realises that now but she willingly told me the truth, which is worth something, no, worth a lot, in my book. I like the idea of asking if she would consider tracking down the wives of the men she met on that website, though - her response will be telling.

Despite what you guys may think, I am a pretty good judge of character - I see her at a stage I was a few months ago, in need of a little fun, a moral boost. If we can keep it that way and have some fun, then I think I'm OK with it.

Yes, there are plenty of other fish but right now, this is in a good spot for me - not perfect but I have no hesitation in calling it off in an instant - you guy's underestimate me - pretty strong right now. The concern was more on a moral / ethical one; as I said, I don't want to feel like I am betraying my fellow BS by having sex with someone who made the mistake to enable affairs in the past.

Will keep it at arms length for now. Thanks for the advice and challenges!


----------



## TX-SC

What a very sad state of affairs. Your being with her is in a very real way condoning what she has done. I wish you luck.


----------



## bandit.45

Why hasn't she made the moves on you yet? Does she want sex with you?


----------



## Nucking Futs

bandit.45 said:


> Why hasn't she made the moves on you yet? Does she want sex with you?


Maybe he's not married enough for her.


----------



## MattMatt

It would be foolish to start beating up on @Melrose8888. 

So how about that not happening, please?


----------



## Satya

Melrose8888 said:


> I see her at a stage I was a few months ago, in need of a little fun, a moral boost. If we can keep it that way and have some fun, then I think I'm OK with it.


Was she also having fun when she was "dating" married men?
Was your wife also having fun when she was "dating" her boss?

I'm not beating up on you, @Melrose8888, but I am sorely disappointed in your choices, considering all that you have personally been through.

However, they are your choices to make.
I hope you enjoy your fun.


----------



## GusPolinski

I guess OM isn’t such a bad guy after all.


----------



## TX-SC

GusPolinski said:


> I guess OM isn’t such a bad guy after all.


He was just misunderstood. He only wanted to have some fun with a married woman. Can't really blame him for that, right? At least he didn't go on a cheating site LOOKING for married women, cause that would just be wrong on so many levels!


----------



## Evinrude58

Takes too long to find a good woman to waste time on ones you wouldn't consider a LTR with..


----------



## MattMatt

TX-SC said:


> He was just misunderstood. He only wanted to have some fun with a married woman. Can't really blame him for that, right? At least he didn't go on a cheating site LOOKING for married women, cause that would just be wrong on so many levels!


Welcome back from your self imposed exile from this thread that lasted for all of three hours! >


----------



## TX-SC

MattMatt said:


> Welcome back from your self imposed exile from this thread that lasted for all of three hours! >


Yeah, I changed my post. I couldn't let it go...


----------



## azteca1986

Melrose8888 said:


> Irrespective, she is still married, I have told her that isn't something I find comfortable with and, when she called me this morning to ask how I felt about it today, I told her I found it disappointing that *she chose an extra marital affairs website* to seek her confidence boost, that she was selfish in thinking that was the safest option and didn't think of the impact on the OMW.


This is the biggest and only Red Flag you need. Hadn't she heard of Tinder, FFS?


> Chuck - viewing from 40k? She is a wounded, low self esteem, sex starved mother, who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it. She wants to move on, she wants to be adored, she wants lots of sex.


Rescuing damaged women is a terrible pastime. Now, go up to 80K and how do you see yourself? Are you behaving like someone that values their time and the people they associate with? 

It doesn't matter that you're not looking for LTR. You're already so invested that you didn't immediately walk away when she told you the above. Listen to the excuses you're giving her.


> If I am coming across as too much of a hypocrite, feel free to knock me back down.


Nah, you're coming across as someone who's self-esteem took an understandable hit recently. Don't leave it till tomorrow to make healthy relationship choices. Life's too short.


----------



## Affaircare

@Melrose8888









*BOOT TO THE HEAD!*



> ...viewing from 40k? She is a wounded, low self esteem, sex starved mother, who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it. She wants to move on, she wants to be adored, she wants lots of sex.
> 
> I'm not interested in a serious LTR atm and nor is she, so I guess it's weighing up my morals on both her marital status and whether no strings sex is worth it, knowing she did cheat in the past.
> 
> If I am coming across as too much of a hypocrite, feel free to knock me back down.


Read what you wrote again. What disloyal wayward spouse would not have said the exact same thing? What cheater ISN'T a "wounded, low self esteem, sex starved" person "who wants to feel alive again and isn't afraid to go and get it"? Seriously? 

What adulterer doesn't want to move on, want to be adored, and want lots of sex? What unfaithful person is interested in a serious LTR? They want no strings attached! 

You said to knock you back down if you were coming across as a hypocrite, so here I am--I'm knocking you back down!


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, I asked for it and I got it.

It's a huge disappointment to me, I told you the bad part to this woman but the good parts were great, really great. But hey, I made a promise to myself and I have the chance to avoid such women in the future. I'm beating myself up about why I'm finding this so difficult - my morals and expectations are very clear but you guys are right, I'm trying to find a reason to justify her history??

We had a long chat about it and, through that, although she shows remorse abut what she did, because it was a paid website (illicit encounters) she seems to think that the guys she did sleep with had good reasons for seeking out sex. Very difficult to hear her say this and for her not to think about / feel compassion for the unwitting wives who were sitting at home with the kids while she was out having, dinner, drinks, sex with their husband, in a hotel.

Good. Writing that out has helped me. Yuk. I don't care how lonely or down you are, that is not the way to seek out NSA sex.

Thanks gang.

See, I'm still learning / healing / hurting....


----------



## Satya

So, did you break up with her?


----------



## Chuck71

'Rose..... I was afraid if you did, it would set you back. I was not alone in this thinking. 

Maybe..... just maybe you wanted to be "on the other end of being cheated on." As in... THIS time

you got to receive the pleasure of the act of infidelity. Whereas.... what brought you here was the 

recipient of the pain of cheating. If that's the case, don't feel bad. That's virtually human nature.

She went on a pay site for sex with married men. Something like the Ash ley ******* sex site

in the States. -Life's too short.... have an affair- Their data base was hacked and LOL all the names

of the credit / debit card users were exposed. I bet there were many a restless nights in many

homes after that. Instant gratification now but you would later ask yourself, as Queen sang, 

"Was it all worth it" This gal obviously enjoyed what she did, she admitted to it twice. She is NOT

the type of woman you would ever want, covering your back. I wouldn't trust her to pour me a 

cup of coffee. Patience..... give it some time. You're going to meet a gal eventually who will

knock your socks off. But you can't force it to happen, "it...just.....happens."

And when you least expect it. Of my three relationships that have amounted to anything more than

a couple months (after D)..... they found me and..... I was not looking at the time. Make a trip to the States

sometime.... lemme intro you to some mountain gals. They don't mind getting dirty and clean up super nice.


----------



## Melrose8888

Well **** me.

Just when you thought this was the biggest thing to deal with guess what....

The ex is moving in with POSOM, with my boys.

She won't tell me where though - "not too far and it's going to be so positive for the boys". So have my solicitor on the case.

Months of great progress and I feel like I'm back at square one, shaking, triggering, angry, upset...


----------



## Danny4133

Melrose8888 said:


> Well **** me.
> 
> Just when you thought this was the biggest thing to deal with guess what....
> 
> The ex is moving in with POSOM, with my boys.
> 
> She won't tell me where though - "not too far and it's going to be so positive for the boys". So have my solicitor on the case.
> 
> Months of great progress and I feel like I'm back at square one, shaking, triggering, angry, upset...


Hey buddy,

You may not see this as good news, I understand. But the rate and pace this is all moving at for the POS's IMHO that this will all blow up soon enough.

As soon as they move in together, your boys with him, POSEW doing mummy things it will in my opinion go south fairly quickly.

I'd get my a** to the bookies and have £50 at 10/1 that it'll be game over by the summer.


----------



## Melrose8888

Danny4133 said:


> Hey buddy,
> 
> You may not see this as good news, I understand. But the rate and pace this is all moving at for the POS's IMHO that this will all blow up soon enough.
> 
> As soon as they move in together, your boys with him, POSEW doing mummy things it will in my opinion go south fairly quickly.
> 
> I'd get my a** to the bookies and have £50 at 10/1 that it'll be game over by the summer.


Danny, I know this may not seem much compared to the horror stories that you and Sid are going through but these boys are fragile. Moving away, in with the POSOM, disrupting their little lives further all so the selfish ****ers live in a nice house, close to work etc. No!!!

Honestly, I don't want them to split up, I just want them to **** off and leave me and my boys alone. They are welcome to each other.

My boys do not deserve to be used as some kind of toy while these two work out what is they are looking for.

I have (after legal advice) emailed her to say we must re-enter mediation immediately to discuss changes.

I also called their work - without providing names of course but the HR department was less than useless - they didn't seem interested at all and couldn't see what I was trying to tell them. She stopped short of saying 'so what' but I could tell from her tone. Given UK laws on exposure, I am going to see if my local solicitor will attend a meeting with their HR tomorrow.

Had enough of this ****.


----------



## Danny4133

May be worth raising a specific issue or prohibited steps c100 form with court. £250 To get the ball rolling and go for residency.


----------



## Chuck71

Didn't the decree say she could not move them xxx miles away? If it did, you have a gripe.

Yes it will disrupt your boys.... the day to day.... But I want to ask... is part of the reason you are

upset, she is moving in with POS and will be sleeping under the same roof with your kids... 

as many nights as you will?

BTW.... it would pizz me off too.


----------



## Affaircare

Danny4133 said:


> May be worth raising a specific issue or prohibited steps c100 form with court. £250 To get the ball rolling and go for residency.


Just to be technical, the Prohibited Steps Order is for matters such as schooling, medical treatment, and religion. A Prohibited Steps Order can remove a parent's right to make such decisions about their child's life.

To go for residency I think you'd go for a new Child Arrangements Order. A Child Arrangements Order sets out who a child should live, spend time or otherwise have contact with. Specifically, these newer style orders (they used to be Residence/Contact Orders) can establish where the children live and who they have contact with. There are two kinds of contact, direct and indirect. Direct contact includes staying contact (overnight), visiting contact, supported and supervised contact (with a third party present). Indirect contact includes contact by phone and via correspondence. 

Thus the first thing I'd do--pull out whatever order you've got now. See what it says about who the kids live with, who they can or cannot contact, where they can or cannot move, and who makes parenting decisions. 

If your order doesn't delineate any of that, then you probably could file for a Child Arrangements Order and go for them living with you, direct contact with her ONLY, and denying contact or no contact with males to whom ExW is not married. As part of the new Child Arrangements Order, include that you make parental decisions about schooling, medical treatment and religion, or that at minimumu all decisions must be JOINT AGREEMENT and not just made by one parent overriding the other parent's parental rights.

If your order does delineate any of that, then find the parts of the current order that she is disregarding, and petition based on her essentially disobeying a court order...and that based on the fact that she is in contempt, you are asking for....


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks Affaircare.

There is no order currently. As part of mediation (I believe most courts prefer this instead of but certainly ahead of an order) we agreed on joint custody, where the boys will be schooled and the finances. This is all in the final divorce papers and was presented with the financial consent order sealed as part of the divorce.

The ex, for whatever reason, is playing a game and won't tell me exactly where she is going (although she has already told my boys!!) but having spoken to OMW (for first time in 3 months) she tells me POSOM has just rented a big house in a small village that is a 15 minutes drive from the boys schools.

So although it is local-ish it's still disruption, living with her married boss, who hasn't even started divorce proceedings, (no petition from her or him yet, OMW told me that last night), who has 2 teenage kids (and sometimes their boy/girl friends) that stay with him in that house at least every other weekend. What an unsafe and unstable environment for my 4 and 7 year old to be put in. Yes Chuck, that worries me.

We also agreed in the financial consent order that is legally binding, that her child maintenance payments would be reduced (IE I paid her a higher lump sum) because when the boys turn 12 they will walk to school and will not need childcare. This change removes that possibility, so she is breaking that agreement.

So, I have, via email and purposely politely and informally without raising any of the above, proposed to her that the boys live here with me full time and she gets them every other weekend and to see them midweek after school.

If she declined then it's full steam ahead on a child arrangement order.

Please keep the advice coming.


----------



## Affaircare

Melrose8888 said:


> ... we agreed on joint custody, where the boys will be schooled and the finances. This is all in the final divorce papers and was presented with the financial consent order sealed as part of the divorce.
> 
> The ex ... won't tell me exactly where she is going [but] POSOM has just rented a big house in a small village that is a 15 minutes drive from the boys schools.
> 
> So ... living with her married boss, who hasn't even started divorce proceedings, ...who has 2 teenage kids (and sometimes their boy/girl friends) that stay with him in that house at least every other weekend. ...
> 
> We also agreed in the financial consent order that is legally binding, that her child maintenance payments would be reduced (IE I paid her a higher lump sum) because when the boys turn 12 they will walk to school and will not need childcare. This change removes that possibility, so she is breaking that agreement.
> 
> So, I have, via email and purposely politely and informally without raising any of the above, proposed to her that the boys live here with me full time and she gets them every other weekend and to see them midweek after school.


At this point, I agree with you that politely and informally raising the option of the boys living with you full time and her seeing them midweek and every other weekend is a wise step. If she accepts, I would say just go with it and do nothing more than being thankful you have the boys. "Don't let the door hit you in the ass! Bye bye now!"

On the other hand, if she refuses or starts going ballistic, here's what I see. So far she is breaking at least two of the three things she agreed to in the court documents, namely the WAY the boys will go to school and the finances. Now just to be clear, as I understand it she is not proposing that they change schools PER SE, but if they live 15 minutes away, they won't be walking to school and part of the reason you agree to "the school the boys will go to" was with the express understanding that they would be walking to school! This is even re-enforced in your financial agreement where you agreed to give her a larger lump sum and smaller CS because (quote) the boys will walk to school and not need childcare. (end quote) 

Thus if I were you, I'd absolute seek legal assistance (attorney, solicitor, parallel, etc.) in filing a formal Child Arrangments Order with you as primary parent etc. as you proposed, and get this formally ordered by the court. The biggest positive on your side is that you can show a judge that you two had agreed to three things, and here there's not even an order and she's already disregarding her "agreement" on two of the three things! Thus CLEARLY for your children's well-being orders have to be in place, and you'll likely need help enforcing the order because she's demonstrated that she will disregard a legal agreement.


----------



## Melrose8888

Her response:

Will reply fully later but I am absolutely not considering any change to child access arrangements. I wholeheartedly disagree that less contact with me would be in the boys' best interest.

Time for legal advice then...


----------



## Chuck71

Giving up time with the boys would take away her ability to try and control you. 'Rose.... it's a power

trip. She is used to you falling in line with what she wants. Well... not recently.....

1-You gave her an up front amount before the lump sum was paid. Was it deducted from full amount?

2-The courts will say "they are not 12 yet, or at least the oldest"

3-But this is a breach of agreement in as AC said, two areas. Do not blow up, be as happy

as a pot head walking into a pot garden. Just chill.... Let the lawyers line everything up.

I don't know UK law..... but at times... there will be six people in that house. Eight if their g/f or b/f

is over. That is a bit cramped. Who are his kids, who are their SOs, who are their friends? Do they

like to be hooligans and smoke weed or mess with bath salts? Who knows... but your boys will be

affected. This is an "unsuitable arrangement" for your YOUNG boys and as their father, you must seek

a resolution to maximize their safety.

The boys are going to be in an unstable environment.... and XW knows it... so much for her

priorities. Her next move will be to switch them to a closer school, for them. They have this mapped

out "in their head." Rose.... any one would know your boys would be given more attention and a 

better structured environ with you. Let's hope these spineless @%%^$# lawyers over there

can help you accomplish this. I already knew your XW was a crappy W.... add to the list a crappy

mom too.


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888, Full speed ahead with all guns blazing, all torpedoes launched and all planes in the air.

If she wants war, have it, Sir!


----------



## Melrose8888

Her email today:

Melrose,

The unexpectedness of your emails yesterday was a shock, and the varied tone and style was unnerving. You suggested and we agreed that a weekly email update concerning the boys was appropriate, unless in the event of an emergency. Yesterday’s contact was not only inappropriate and disruptive, but seemed concerned more with you not knowing details as opposed to the boys contentment. Please stop the irregular contact and revert to the weekly communication, unless you would like to discuss alternative arrangements.

Today’s emails about suggesting reducing the boys’ time with me were very upsetting. As is your assertion that I am disregarding agreements made. All I am doing is changing my address and giving you more than 5 weeks’ notice of the event. Plenty of time to adjust. The boys are happy, I am happy. I’m more than willing to discuss the matter in front of a solicitor, but it feels like a waste of money to me, and certainly not in the boys’ best interests; I propose that the current arrangements, which are working well, remain as is.

The interactions with you this week have felt intimidating, aggressive and have made me feel very uncomfortable. My focus needs to be on the boys not on your reactions to changes in my life and how I live. 

The Move Update

I am still intrigued how you know anything about me moving, as so few people know of it – as it’s still a way off. And they all deny having contact with you. But regardless of that, I have not raised it before now because a) it isn’t happening for a while, and b) I wanted to talk to the boys first. My focus is whether they are happy and I wanted to know what they thought before informing you. I have some great chats with DS7. Usually at very random moments when a memory or thought occurs to him. I have a very strong relationship with both boys and value their opinions.

As confirmed yesterday, I am not moving until mid-November. Both boys have been to the new house as POSOM has been living there since mid-September. They thoroughly enjoyed themselves there and have been extremely relaxed. DS7 has some concerns but they are 1) that I will leave all our furniture and things behind – I have assured him this is not the case, and 2) what your reaction will be. The country air and scenery of the new location is much more pleasant to be around than a housing estate on the edge of our town, and this move should be a good thing for the boys. 

As my residence will continue to be in our town until mid-November, I will give you the new address when I move. Currently, it is just POSOMs house and therefore there is no need for you to have his address.

As also mentioned yesterday, I spoke to the boys about it this week in order to allow a slow but steady adjustment period for them. I know you’re concerned about change for the boys, but there will be no change to their routine and only positive change in terms of their environment. I will have been in my current house for 10 months by the time I move, which is a long time in the memory of a child. Providing the boys with a stable, loving and warm environment to grow up in is our main responsibility. My moving does not change my ability or desire to provide that. In fact quite the opposite – it will enhance it. Teaching the boys that change happens and teaching them how to cope with it is an invaluable life lesson. Whether they have positive or negative reactions to change is largely down to the examples we provide.

With regards to my availability next week to discuss matters in front of a solicitor, I am free Tuesday afternoon.

POSWW


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> Giving up time with the boys would take away her ability to try and control you. 'Rose.... it's a power
> 
> trip. She is used to you falling in line with what she wants. Well... not recently.....
> 
> 1-You gave her an up front amount before the lump sum was paid. Was it deducted from full amount?
> 
> 2-The courts will say "they are not 12 yet, or at least the oldest"
> 
> 3-But this is a breach of agreement in as AC said, two areas. Do not blow up, be as happy
> 
> as a pot head walking into a pot garden. Just chill.... Let the lawyers line everything up.
> 
> I don't know UK law..... but at times... there will be six people in that house. Eight if their g/f or b/f
> 
> is over. That is a bit cramped. Who are his kids, who are their SOs, who are their friends? Do they
> 
> like to be hooligans and smoke weed or mess with bath salts? Who knows... but your boys will be
> 
> affected. This is an "unsuitable arrangement" for your YOUNG boys and as their father, you must seek
> 
> a resolution to maximize their safety.
> 
> The boys are going to be in an unstable environment.... and XW knows it... so much for her
> 
> priorities. Her next move will be to switch them to a closer school, for them. They have this mapped
> 
> out "in their head." Rose.... any one would know your boys would be given more attention and a
> 
> better structured environ with you. Let's hope these spineless @%%^$# lawyers over there
> 
> can help you accomplish this. I already knew your XW was a crappy W.... add to the list a crappy
> 
> mom too.


Wow! Spot on Chuck - on every level.

I didn't need to pay her a lump sum in the end, as I got the divorce through so quickly. However...she had spent all her cash, as you know. Half of that cash was 'mine' so she still owes me that half back £2.5k...

It is a breach and her disregard requires us to have a formal order in place. Huge shame but hey.

Correct on house; POSOM and his 2 teenage kids and OMW told me last night that their bf and gf also visit. So that is 8 in a house, age range 4 to 18 on kids and a 41 and 47 year adults.

She isn't doing this to those boys.


----------



## Melrose8888

POSXWW,


The earliest the mediator can do is Friday – I have pencilled in 10am, let me know if a different time on Friday is more suitable.

To set the scene for our mediation discussion, ‘urgent nature’ was in fact how I described any communication outside of the weekly emails. This is urgent. We have many years of co-parenting ahead of us and you not discussing a major decision about the boys with me, before taking action in both in terms of logistics and in telling the boys themselves, is wholly unacceptable. I am concerned about how many precedents you are setting regarding co-parenting, none of which are in line with our discussions during mediation in January. Your lack of respect for me, as the father of our sons, not telling me about your plans for them, is painful, disrespectful and upsetting, hence the urgent nature of my emails yesterday. Your continued disrespect of not even telling the location of where you are moving is causing unnecessary distress and angst to me.

My email this morning about making my house the boys main residence is a genuine offer and in no way reflects any opinion about you as a mother. It reflects the need for them to have stability. You are changing the current arrangements and moving the boys in with your married, father of two boyfriend who you work with and had an affair with. When the boys are with me, especially now I only have them 50% of the time, I make them my 100% priority, with no distractions. The set up at your boyfriends house will not provide you with the ability to do that. I find this difficult to understand. Therefore, I feel it much more appropriate for you to move in with your boyfriend as planned, but that the boys take up main residence here, in home town, in familiar surroundings with friends and familiar neighbours nearby.

One further, major child safe keeping concern. You have made your opinion on DS4 sleeping routine very clear – you do not mind him sleeping in your bed at night. So I will make my opinion very clear, is it wholly inappropriate for DS4 to be getting into a bed that you share with your married, father of two boyfriend who you work with and had an affair with.

Furthermore, our financial settlement was based on you negotiating a reduced Child Maintenance payment to me because the boys would walk to and from school when they turned 12. They will be unable to do this now and that goes against the reasons we selected the school the boys would attend, in mediation. I calculate the financial impact of such a change to be around £xx,000 but I would like to work through that in mediation to see if we all agree on that figure being the impact of your ignoring the consent order, as sealed in court. The fact you are already disregarding that agreement, without prior discussion, concerns me and although I’d like to reach a conclusion in mediation, I will not hesitate to enter into a formal order, if it is required.

Something else in terms of finances that I was more than willing to let slide in the interest of amicable co-parenting but I must, in light of your current approach, now review, is the value you declared in your personal current account during mediation. By the very nature of the split, and all cash funds entering one pot, half of that was my cash. Therefore, when it came to paying you the agreed settlement of £xx,000, that sum I paid you should have been reduced by half of your current account at the time of the agreement. I was sympathetic that you were low on funds after setting up the new home / having holidays / going to gigs / private beach holidays etc. and therefore, as I say, let it go at the time for the sake of the boys. I’d like to check those figures in mediation but I believe the correct figure you provided to be £xxxx. So a balance of £xxxx is owed to me.

As part of the mediation session I’d like to discuss all these aspects and I hope we can come to an agreement, otherwise I will be seeking to obtain a Prohibited Steps Order for short term resolution to your proposed move and work towards a Child Arrangements Order for the formal, ongoing arrangement with our children. All of this is done with the protection and stability of DS7 and DS4 in mind and avoids an unexpected changes that you attempt to solely make, in the future.

I will respond to the weekly update, separately to this correspondence, next Friday, unless you deem anything to be urgent.

Melrose


----------



## Melrose8888

And the final exchanges:


Melrose,

Friday at 10am is impossible. The meeting will have to be the following week if M has no other times available next week.

DS4 has not got into bed with POSOM and will not be. I have already factored that in in terms of practicalities. I am also very much focused on the boys' stability and find the current course of action you are taking as undermining that.

POSOM is a very calm and pleasant person to be around, and will only bring a positive influence to the boys' life. 

Further communication about either emotive or financial matters should now be left to the solicitors' office. I am not prepared to change any arrangements regarding the children's care. I am involving you in the change of address with plenty of notice, and there is no cause to make changes.

There are a number of other concerns I'd be interested in discussing with a solicitor present, so I welcome the appointment when it comes.

POSXWW
----------

POSXWW,

Perhaps you would do the courtesy of suggesting another time on Friday or a time on Thursday that might suit?

You have undermined me, as their father, by refusing to communicate ahead of a major change in the boys life. I will take necessary action ahead of the mediation, then. You are not going to move those boys in to another rental property, with a married man. End of.

Can't wait.

Melrose


I have my solicitor appointment on Monday, where we will draft and submit the Prohibited Steps Order, most likely around him still being married (he / they've not even petitioned for divorced yet, for f sake!).

She is right about one thing - what a waste of time, money and energy...sigh...


----------



## Danny4133

Mel,

It's a child safeguarding issue IMHO in that POSOM is in bed with your child.
CAFCASS will get this out of your son should they become involved, and I would make steps to have their involvement.

What wins residency of the children ? - a safeguarding issue - swear to god, from the CAFCASS officers mouth to me not 3 days ago!

Discuss with your legal representation, provide date time records and play your hand to its maximum ability mate.


----------



## Satya

Melrose, you literally roundhouse kicked her back about 100K feet with your response. Look at how weak her latest reply was compared to her first. Well done.










Full steam ahead.


----------



## MattMatt

[/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]










This is one of my top cartoons of all times, I often think of it when confronted by idiots.


----------



## Evinrude58

I personally think Melrose may have given her an ideal opportunity to see what his arguments are, and for her to present them to her attorney so that he can come up with loopholes and bs on how to get around Melrose's arguments. I am wondering if he maybe should have not said a word about her shacking up with a married man and presented that to the court. Surely, even in the U.K., it's not acceptable to shack up with a married man and his kids, with one's own children. That's just plain downright trashy and a HORRIBLE example for them. 

I liked how she said "adapting to change" like it's just a casual thing to screw one's married boss and leave one's husband and totally disrupt the lives of one's children. Typical rationalizing bs that people of low character do.

Melrose: this is the kind of thinking your gf with the married fbuddies does. After dealing with your ex, I can't imagine how you weren't puking listening to her bs.


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> I personally think Melrose may have given her an ideal opportunity to see what his arguments are, and for her to present them to her attorney so that he can come up with loopholes and bs on how to get around Melrose's arguments. I am wondering if he maybe should have not said a word about her shacking up with a married man and presented that to the court. Surely, even in the U.K., it's not acceptable to shack up with a married man and his kids, with one's own children. That's just plain downright trashy and a HORRIBLE example for them.
> 
> I liked how she said "adapting to change" like it's just a casual thing to screw one's married boss and leave one's husband and totally disrupt the lives of one's children. Typical rationalizing bs that people of low character do.
> 
> Melrose: this is the kind of thinking your gf with the married fbuddies does. After dealing with your ex, I can't imagine how you weren't puking listening to her bs.


I hear ya, on all fronts.

I had to get her into mediation first, that is a necessary hurdle, so I had to bait her and also to let her think I have left loop-holes.

Her response to the rationalising if I raise that argument? "What's done is done and I'm trying to make the future better". Lost count the number of times that bull has come out of her tarty mouth.

Yeah, Ex-gf tried hard but ultimately, I can't be seen to be condoning that sort of behaviour.


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888, There must have been a lot of other willing females for him to catch.

Why your ex, with her two very young boys?

I mean, what lothario saddles himself with the young children of another man? That makes no sense to me, especially at his age when it'll be like starting again with young children.

Have you checked him against the Sex Offender's Register?


----------



## Evinrude58

I find it interesting that she says repeatedly that he is "pleasant to be around and a good influence on the boys"..... 
Makes me wonder if he's a psychopath.

How can a MARRIED MAN living with their mother, knowing he broke up the marriage between their mother and father possibly be misconstrued as a positive influence? What, is this the role model she wants for her boys? Disgusting. 

When they see her come out of the dude's bedroom in a nightgown all sleepy-eyed and know she slept with another woman's husband, some other kids' father, I'm sure there will be some idiotic reason why they won't be confused.....

Women like your wife have screwed up their own marbles so badly they don't have a clue what right and wrong really looks like.


----------



## Melrose8888

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888, There must have been a lot of other willing females for him to catch.
> 
> Why your ex, with her two very young boys?
> 
> I mean, what lothario saddles himself with the young children of another man? That makes no sense to me, especially at his age when it'll be like starting again with young children.
> 
> Have you checked him against the Sex Offender's Register?


Obviously a scary thought but the only good thing OMW would say about him, is that he is a good father. He doesn't appear there, just checked.

He is so senior at a major British institution, that he'd be risking more than just my boys if he wasn't throwing straight dice.

My ex is obsessed with him, he brainwashed her, groomed her, he's got an obsession with female co workers, he just sees my boys as a necessary way to maintain being adored. Only this time his wife threw him out, so he has to / may as well crack on. Plus, living here cuts his commute to work from 90 mins to 9 mins......


----------



## Melrose8888

Evinrude58 said:


> I find it interesting that she says repeatedly that he is "pleasant to be around and a good influence on the boys".....
> Makes me wonder if he's a psychopath.
> 
> How can a MARRIED MAN living with their mother, knowing he broke up the marriage between their mother and father possibly be misconstrued as a positive influence? What, is this the role model she wants for her boys? Disgusting.
> 
> When they see her come out of the dude's bedroom in a nightgown all sleepy-eyed and know she slept with another woman's husband, some other kids' father, I'm sure there will be some idiotic reason why they won't be confused.....
> 
> Women like your wife have screwed up their own marbles so badly they don't have a clue what right and wrong really looks like.


Selfish, entitled, smug cheater behaviour.

Plus the ex has serious childhood and daddy issues and POSOM is depressed with suicide running in his family.

What the **** was I ever thinking????


----------



## Chuck71

On her 1st response to you.... who wrote that, I seriously doubt she did. POSOMs HR department?

Nothing like going against an agreement with ex-spouse about the children's welfare just so it

would benefit the POSOM. POSOM or OMW hasn't even started their D proceedings.... like this

has "happened before." The $ she owes you... you will never see it.... ever. But... it may be used as

a bargaining chip, waive the $ owed if you (STBXW) put in writing the kids will remain at the same school

(or zoned school) for the duration of their education. The $ will be waived as owed upon completion 

of their secondary learning or age 18, whichever comes first. 

Your XW is acting like a child, treat her like one. I still say he will run for the hills eventually.

A predator such as him, moves on to the next victim, like a virus. Some 28 y / o hottie will start there,

one kid, much less mileage than your XW. She will then need a shoulder to cry on....

take a guess who will be "first in her rolldex......"


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> On her 1st response to you.... who wrote that, I seriously doubt she did. POSOMs HR department?
> 
> Nothing like going against an agreement with ex-spouse about the children's welfare just so it
> 
> would benefit the POSOM. POSOM or OMW hasn't even started their D proceedings.... like this
> 
> has "happened before." The $ she owes you... you will never see it.... ever. But... it may be used as
> 
> a bargaining chip, waive the $ owed if you (STBXW) put in writing the kids will remain at the same school
> 
> (or zoned school) for the duration of their education. The $ will be waived as owed upon completion
> 
> of their secondary learning or age 18, whichever comes first.
> 
> Your XW is acting like a child, treat her like one. I still say he will run for the hills eventually.
> 
> A predator such as him, moves on to the next victim, like a virus. Some 28 y / o hottie will start there,
> 
> one kid, much less mileage than your XW. She will then need a shoulder to cry on....
> 
> take a guess who will be "first in her rolldex......"


Tragically she does speak and write like that, as if she has a stick up her ass. POSOM also enjoys this style of writing, I'm sure he would have validated it (as he does everything she does).

Yes, it's all negotiation tactics, I just want her to feel uncomfortable but ultimately, i just want those boys under my wing and out of any situation where there is potential harm to them.

No idea why they haven't started divorce proceedings but given OMW is still entitled to half of everything, moving into another house with your affair partner is bafflingly for me. Hardly a stable environment, especially with his kids coming and going.

He'll probably move on when he gets a new job and go through the new flirty phase with yet another coworker. I hope not, needs to be some stability form the boys. Think the XWW would go (even more) potty if he left her.

She won't be back. Thank ****. Too stubborn, too proud. She'll just move on to other 'unhappy' husband's at her work or dads at the kids school.


----------



## RandomDude

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888
> 
> Ask her to watch these videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc6-U8KkpFs
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XIA_6SeT_k
> 
> Then ask her to explain what is the difference between your wife and the cheating women on the Jeremy Kyle Show?




British Jerry Springer! lol brilliant!


----------



## manfromlamancha

I happen to know who the POSOM is - he is known in some (very small - not the important ones) IT circles. The reason he targeted Melrose's wife is that Melrose's wife worked for him and was most impressed with him given that he looks like Lurch! Other women are simply not impressed by him or his position/power (which is not earned by the way - he bull****s for a living). Thats how he met his stbxw and thats how he met Melrose's stbxw. As soon as he is in another job (he is looking and being rejected left, right and centre) where there is another simple-minded woman working for him or where he recruits one, he will be off. He is like a cuckoo bird - moves into existing nests or at least onto married women.

Melrose, you need to accelerate the meeting with their HR - HR depts in general are renowned to be run by lazy, good-for-nothing people who try and avoid trouble while covering their ar$e$. Let them know that you expect a formal response from the organisation and that you are thinking of tabling this before the board (who would fire him on the spot for half of what he has done).

I thought you had said that your youngest did already sleep in the same bed as both of them or was that only a suspicion ? All of this has to be tabled both with the courts as well as where they work. I know of your stbxw and she values her position in this org very highly as well as what others think of her. This will be a death blow if you make it common knowledge especially details like the above! But lets see what the solicitor says first.


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> I happen to know who the POSOM is - he is known in some (very small - not the important ones) IT circles. The reason he targeted Melrose's wife is that Melrose's wife worked for him and was most impressed with him given that he looks like Lurch! Other women are simply not impressed by him or his position/power (which is not earned by the way - he bull****s for a living). Thats how he met his stbxw and thats how he met Melrose's stbxw. As soon as he is in another job (he is looking and being rejected left, right and centre) where there is another simple-minded woman working for him or where he recruits one, he will be off. He is like a cuckoo bird - moves into existing nests or at least onto married women.
> 
> Melrose, you need to accelerate the meeting with their HR - HR depts in general are renowned to be run by lazy, good-for-nothing people who try and avoid trouble while covering their ar$e$. Let them know that you expect a formal response from the organisation and that you are thinking of tabling this before the board (who would fire him on the spot for half of what he has done).
> 
> I thought you had said that your youngest did already sleep in the same bed as both of them or was that only a suspicion ? All of this has to be tabled both with the courts as well as where they work. I know of your stbxw and she values her position in this org very highly as well as what others think of her. This will be a death blow if you make it common knowledge especially details like the above! But lets see what the solicitor says first.


Knowing how ugly he is does make me realise how bad things were between me and ex wife (reminder to everyone we got divorced back in June!) for her to go for him!

She owes him for her £15k payrise and loves him splashing the cash too.

Although the majority of the time I believe they will be together, I must admit, given his past, I can't see him hanging around if he does ever manage to get a new job.

So solicitor tomorrow afternoon. Will ask advice on all aspects, from exposure, my evidence to restrictions on her moving the boys into his new rental house.

POSOM has been on holiday with them, so I can only suspect he has already been in bed with ex when youngest was too. Have no hard evidence. Irrespective, it's impractical for ex to suggest that situation can be avoided if they moved in together.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Knowing how ugly he is does make me realise how bad things were between me and ex wife (reminder to everyone we got divorced back in June!) for her to go for him!
> 
> She owes him for her £15k payrise and loves him splashing the cash too.
> 
> Although the majority of the time I believe they will be together, I must admit, given his past, I can't see him hanging around if he does ever manage to get a new job.
> 
> So solicitor tomorrow afternoon. Will ask advice on all aspects, from exposure, my evidence to restrictions on her moving the boys into his new rental house.
> 
> POSOM has been on holiday with them, so I can only suspect he has already been in bed with ex when youngest was too. Have no hard evidence. Irrespective, it's impractical for ex to suggest that situation can be avoided if they moved in together.


Best of luck Monday. Write everything down if you need to. Explore ALL options....

Always remember.... at least 75% of the time, the WS "affairs down." When a WS concocts a "new

reality" they don't care what you look like, as long as you fit their reality and buy into it.


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Knowing how ugly he is does make me realise how bad things were between me and ex wife (reminder to everyone we got divorced back in June!) for her to go for him!
> 
> She owes him for her £15k payrise and loves him splashing the cash too.
> 
> Although the majority of the time I believe they will be together, I must admit, given his past, I can't see him hanging around if he does ever manage to get a new job.
> 
> So solicitor tomorrow afternoon. Will ask advice on all aspects, from exposure, my evidence to restrictions on her moving the boys into his new rental house.
> 
> POSOM has been on holiday with them, so I can only suspect he has already been in bed with ex when youngest was too. Have no hard evidence. Irrespective, it's impractical for ex to suggest that situation can be avoided if they moved in together.


 @Melrose8888, exactly how attractive was he to her?

Did she see_ this_?










Or did she see *this*?


----------



## Melrose8888

Too much hair on Lurch, MattMatt...


----------



## Melrose8888

An informative meeting with my solicitor. As he worked on my divorce, he already had a good understanding of the situation and both my and the XW attitude to the process and the children. He noted how amenable we both were back April through to June.

His overriding advice was that the courts will only take the best interests of the children into consideration. That means, my exposure of the affair to her work and the inevitable financial and emotional loss that would bring, would work against me in any future potential Child Arrangement Order. Not to mention the UK law on exposure being so strict. Best thing here is if someone they work with raises the issue...

He agreed entering mediation is the first step in the process and if I still have concerns that the ex will, once again, ignore the agreements made in that, we could then move to legal options. Firstly a solicitor’s letter to affirm her responsibilities in co-parenting then, if required, he felt the natural next step would be to apply for full custody of the boys living with me (Ex sees them every other weekend and 1 evening a week). This would be under the grounds that the move out of town (and he suggested that even a small move can be seen as disruptive) is not in the best interests of the boys. This would also include terms that the boys would not move away from home town in the future.

He seemed to think that the marital status of POSOM is less of a concern but agreed, that if I felt their sleeping environment and being around teenagers could be proved (can it?!) as detrimental, then I could apply on this basis.

So all in all, he suggests to let things progress for now but to only wait a matter of weeks after the move in together, to action my concerns, although he believes that, in our case, having to go to court will be seen as a defeat for all.

He’s right in the sense we should be able to sort this out ourselves - mediation is Friday PM – I really just can’t see how I can trust her to stick to anything she says, when she doesn’t even have the decency to talk to me about his before she has given notice on her current rental (I can see it was immediately re-let to someone new) and told the boys they are moving.

Footnote that my eldest son mention last night that they stayed at this new house last weekend, that they are, once again, sharing a small bedroom in bunk beds and that my youngest did indeed wake up and run into ‘Mummy and POSOMs bed’. Sad day when you have to be told significant details through your son and I find using them as messengers as highly inappropriate.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> An informative meeting with my solicitor. As he worked on my divorce, he already had a good understanding of the situation and both my and the XW attitude to the process and the children. He noted how amenable we both were back April through to June.
> 
> His overriding advice was that the courts will only take the best interests of the children into consideration. That means, my exposure of the affair to her work and the inevitable financial and emotional loss that would bring, would work against me in any future potential Child Arrangement Order. Not to mention the UK law on exposure being so strict. Best thing here is if someone they work with raises the issue...
> 
> He agreed entering mediation is the first step in the process and if I still have concerns that the ex will, once again, ignore the agreements made in that, we could then move to legal options. Firstly a solicitor’s letter to affirm her responsibilities in co-parenting then, if required, he felt the natural next step would be to apply for full custody of the boys living with me (Ex sees them every other weekend and 1 evening a week). This would be under the grounds that the move out of town (and he suggested that even a small move can be seen as disruptive) is not in the best interests of the boys. This would also include terms that the boys would not move away from home town in the future.
> 
> He seemed to think that the marital status of POSOM is less of a concern but agreed, that if I felt their sleeping environment and being around teenagers could be proved (can it?!) as detrimental, then I could apply on this basis.
> 
> So all in all, he suggests to let things progress for now but to only wait a matter of weeks after the move in together, to action my concerns, although he believes that, in our case, having to go to court will be seen as a defeat for all.
> 
> He’s right in the sense we should be able to sort this out ourselves - mediation is Friday PM – I really just can’t see how I can trust her to stick to anything she says, when she doesn’t even have the decency to talk to me about his before she has given notice on her current rental (I can see it was immediately re-let to someone new) and told the boys they are moving.
> 
> Footnote that my eldest son mention last night that they stayed at this new house last weekend, that they are, once again, sharing a small bedroom in bunk beds and that my youngest did indeed wake up and run into ‘Mummy and POSOMs bed’. Sad day when you have to be told significant details through your son and I find using them as messengers as highly inappropriate.


Melrose, an idea might be for someone externally to raise it anonymously with the board and with HR copied in - I would be happy to have that done (or do it myself). I would include the fact that HR knows about this and has done nothing so far. My question is "would this damage your deal in any way ?" I ask this because she is in employment and is young enough to find new employment if she is fired (I doubt she will be - she'll probably get a rap on the knuckles figuratively speaking. He on the other hand will be tossed out).

As for the UK laws on exposure, I really don't know what comedy of errors Sid Snot went through but it is nowhere as bad as that as long as what you are saying is the truth and can be proved (just like in the USA). I did something similar in a different arena and got a warning letter from the other solicitors but when I proved what I said was true, nothing happened to me. I believe Sid crossed the line in who he was mailing with pictures etc and that was paramount to harassment. This would not be the case with you so don't be too worried about that at all.

You can PM me if you like so that this is not discussed in open forum. However, some of the advice from others here is very good.


----------



## Chuck71

I certainly agree it is sad about how you are being informed. As far as proving it would be detrimental,

the only proof would be from the oldest one's accounts and at 7.... courts would not weigh that

much, if at all. But one would think.... moving them so far away.... would be enough. But your

lawyer gave you solid advice. That is why he coached you for mediation. Things were amendable

earlier in the year because both of you wanted it over. Danny and Sid are still having to mess with

the circus I call Divorce in the UK...... would make a gut-wrenching mini-series, that is certain.

Bring up waving the $ she owes you as a last resort. Since you want them to remain in their

"base school" you may have leverage. Even in UKs odd form of courts, they also lean towards

stability. Now that the school year has started... get acquainted with his teachers and school psychologist /

social worker. Mention the D and how transitioning is hard for them.


----------



## Chuck71

manfromlamancha said:


> Melrose, an idea might be for someone externally to raise it anonymously with the board and with HR copied in - I would be happy to have that done (or do it myself). I would include the fact that HR knows about this and has done nothing so far. My question is "would this damage your deal in any way ?" I ask this because she is in employment and is young enough to find new employment if she is fired (I doubt she will be - she'll probably get a rap on the knuckles figuratively speaking. He on the other hand will be tossed out).
> 
> As for the UK laws on exposure, I really don't know what comedy of errors Sid Snot went through but it is nowhere as bad as that as long as what you are saying is the truth and can be proved (just like in the USA). I did something similar in a different arena and got a warning letter from the other solicitors but when I proved what I said was true, nothing happened to me. I believe Sid crossed the line in who he was mailing with pictures etc and that was paramount to harassment. This would not be the case with you so don't be too worried about that at all.
> 
> You can PM me if you like so that this is not discussed in open forum. However, some of the advice from others here is very good.


I still say doing it in "3rd person" gives you much wiggle room. "Rose... two questions.....

1-What do you want to happen if they are exposed?
2-What is most likely to happen if they are exposed?


----------



## Melrose8888

manfromlamancha said:


> Melrose, an idea might be for someone externally to raise it anonymously with the board and with HR copied in - I would be happy to have that done (or do it myself). I would include the fact that HR knows about this and has done nothing so far. My question is "would this damage your deal in any way ?" I ask this because she is in employment and is young enough to find new employment if she is fired (I doubt she will be - she'll probably get a rap on the knuckles figuratively speaking. He on the other hand will be tossed out).
> 
> As for the UK laws on exposure, I really don't know what comedy of errors Sid Snot went through but it is nowhere as bad as that as long as what you are saying is the truth and can be proved (just like in the USA). I did something similar in a different arena and got a warning letter from the other solicitors but when I proved what I said was true, nothing happened to me. I believe Sid crossed the line in who he was mailing with pictures etc and that was paramount to harassment. This would not be the case with you so don't be too worried about that at all.
> 
> You can PM me if you like so that this is not discussed in open forum. However, some of the advice from others here is very good.


Food for thought. Huge thanks for the offer, it feels so reassuring some people have my back.

It couldn't damage me directly at all. However there would inevitably be an impact on my boys - the ex would go even more BSC...
Will answer my motivation, in reply to Chuck, below.

Also, it's going to be obvious who supplied the evidence, as I am the only one who bothered to capture any of it. Sure, they could interview those who were at the hotel back in November when they were in her bedroom together (before the promotion...) or who work around them or those who were there the day they took the afternoon off to go drinking, missed meetings and 1 to 1s, then drunk drive home. But these people aren't going to want to risk their jobs and tell the truth?

My life feels like an endless walk way that keeps splitting in to two paths; work location - here or local, gf - one with morals or great sex, expose the ex - yes or no, fight for custody - yes or no....


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> I certainly agree it is sad about how you are being informed. As far as proving it would be detrimental,
> 
> the only proof would be from the oldest one's accounts and at 7.... courts would not weigh that
> 
> much, if at all. But one would think.... moving them so far away.... would be enough. But your
> 
> lawyer gave you solid advice. That is why he coached you for mediation. Things were amendable
> 
> earlier in the year because both of you wanted it over. Danny and Sid are still having to mess with
> 
> the circus I call Divorce in the UK...... would make a gut-wrenching mini-series, that is certain.
> 
> Bring up waving the $ she owes you as a last resort. Since you want them to remain in their
> 
> "base school" you may have leverage. Even in UKs odd form of courts, they also lean towards
> 
> stability. Now that the school year has started... get acquainted with his teachers and school psychologist /
> 
> social worker. Mention the D and how transitioning is hard for them.


Totally agree on all fronts, Chuck.

Been very active in going to the school, talking directly to his class teacher, the after school club leader, the sports coach, the lunchtime supervisor, the head of pastoral care...they all know how upset my eldest is and my concerns for him - all on the look out, as are the youngest's nursery. It's not a game, it's genuine concern but it all helps.


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> I still say doing it in "3rd person" gives you much wiggle room. "Rose... two questions.....
> 
> 1-What do you want to happen if they are exposed?
> 2-What is most likely to happen if they are exposed?


Let's be honest, this is revenge vs. indifference and letting it go as a really **** thing that happened to me and my boys.

I've been asked 1) by many, many friends. Where I currently am (despite what she's about to do my moving them in with POSOM) is I want a stable environment for my boys. That means quality time with me and their mother, with no unnecessary distractions, risks or upset. To achieve that, we both need to be working, bringing in stable income and living in a stable environment.

However, I want POSOM to be uncovered for the POS he is. To stop him doing this to the next family.

Difficult isn't it?

2) I imagine both would be suspended on full pay and he will use his weasel ways to negotiate a pay off so he can seek new employment elsewhere. If that happened, then ex will follow POSOM - to where who knows and then? She could try and move the kids or she could leave them behind. She could have a full blown breakdown. He could come seeking me for revenge. His kids could be affected financially. I might feel better for a bit but then the long term impacts could be seismic...


----------



## Chuck71

You have leverage..... and that's pretty good for a guy in UK courts. Two level headed Xspouses who

keep everything as best interest of the kids, shouldn't face any situations as this...

but we all know where your XWs priorities lie. Let's ask this.... you expose and...

1-POSOM leaves, finds work nearby. And you block their move and changing schools. XW will try EVERY

angle to exact revenge on you..... such as... keeping the boys from you, as Danny's did.

2-POSOM leaves, must move far away for work. XW follows. Tries to take kids... court will not allow

that. Makes exchanges difficult and she either... exacts revenge on you by keeping kids too much or 

chooses POSOM over the kids. Good for you but that would hurt the boys.

3-POSOM leaves, returns to his W. XW is kicked to curb.... Meltdown 101.

What I do not see happening is POSOM being pushed out and moving far away with XW.

His W will not allow him to leave and support someone else's kids before her own.

The dominoes are set up near perfect for an epic fall. But Rose... do you want the complete fall?

Your XW has a really good paying job, I don't see her following him. And giving up the kids....

she is not 'that' much BSC. POSOM gets walking papers and.... returns home to W.

My key thought is OMW will drive a D if he buys for your kids but not his or... when your XW buys for

her kids and not OMW. The unknown factor in this is OMW.

Nice chess game huh?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose8888 said:


> Let's be honest, this is revenge vs. indifference and letting it go as a really **** thing that happened to me and my boys.
> 
> I've been asked 1) by many, many friends. Where I currently am (despite what she's about to do my moving them in with POSOM) is I want a stable environment for my boys. That means quality time with me and their mother, with no unnecessary distractions, risks or upset. To achieve that, we both need to be working, bringing in stable income and living in a stable environment.
> 
> However, I want POSOM to be uncovered for the POS he is. To stop him doing this to the next family.
> 
> Difficult isn't it?
> 
> 2) I imagine both would be suspended on full pay and he will use his weasel ways to negotiate a pay off so he can seek new employment elsewhere. If that happened, then ex will follow POSOM - to where who knows and then? She could try and move the kids or she could leave them behind. She could have a full blown breakdown. He could come seeking me for revenge. His kids could be affected financially. I might feel better for a bit but then the long term impacts could be seismic...


I don't know that they have a "stable environment" at the moment. She got her stable job through an ill-gained promotion as a result of sleeping with the boss (as simple as that). That could go at any time - all it takes is for a few disenchanted employees to post it on glasshouse! What the loins giveth, the loins taketh away.

As for her going BSC maybe that will mean that you get your boys full time (are you prepared for that). But looking at this from the outside, he will not be able to give her a job where he goes next much less a senior one. I think he will be pushed out and she will get a warning. As for him coming after you, he would not dare try. I would be happy to then step in (breaking anonymity which i value) and tell him a thing or two about revenge - i.e. has he dug the second grave for himself too? So I wouldn't worry about it too much - he is a bull$h!tter and a coward!

Now - I do think there should be some repercussions for what he has done to you and to others before you. I have no problems whatsoever with taking revenge and always have my second grave dug and ready. I think a way to do this is to get a rumour mill going in the organisation - both in the IT dept but also in admin & HR. Get people talking about it without it getting back to you. Then deal the blow in quick succession by informing the board and HR too. Like I said, happy to assist with this.


----------



## MattMatt

It would be awkward if someone, who seemed to be a person previously hurt by POSOM, would get to hear about his current nefarious activities.

Especially if they should use an untraceable email account (such as mail.com, for example) to email details to HR.


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, had mediation on Friday. As I walked towards the solicitors, I see the ex wife step out of POSOMS car and, rather bizarrely, as she walked down the path towards the office, he drove along side the pavement looking out the window at her and stopped, waited to make sure she was inside. Most odd.

Anyway, no small talk, straight into the detail with same mediator we used for divorce sessions in Jan, so she knew the background but was amazed we were already divorced - she thought we were back because of issues before finalising divorce.

I set my stall out, keeping the focus on what is best for the boys and the ex had her say too. First really odd thing - he reason for not telling me about the move was she said that every time I contact her, be it via text or email (past 3 months its been a weekly email and the odd urgent text) she physically shakes, her heart rate rises and she has to be calmed down. Now, I might have said one or two emotionally abusive things to her over the past 5 years (*****, frigid, bad wife...) but to have this reaction about me, I find it difficult to comprehend?! You could see the mediator looking at me, wondering why - she then suggested that perhaps counselling would be good for the ex. Ha! She just laughed and said Melrose is getting IC but I don't need it...

Anyway, she then launches into a story about how POSOMs marital status has no bearing and that he was separated from his wife long before we were. I scoffed and got told by the mediator to show some respect. I immediately responded with, I've had no respect from ex for years, so no, I won't sit her and listen to lies in these circumstances without a response.

She also broke down in tears at my suggestion of taking my boys full time and her having access to them twice a week. Interesting, as I though she might have gone with that one...

In the end, she tells me she is moving to a village a few miles away and that everything is in place for the boys to have the 'perfect' environment for living. I raised all my concerns, he lack of communication, her going back on the agreements of co-parenting and in the end, with good pushing from the mediator, she agreed to 1) not sleep in the same bed as POSOM when my boys are there 2) That his kids won't stay over when my boys are there / won't bring BF/GF 3) The boys will remain in our local town for schooling until they are 18, so they won't move away even if POSOM does 4) I get first refusal on having the boys (i.e. PSOSM is not left with them / does not take them to school or activities 5) POSOM will not babysit nor will he be left alone with them

All this will be written up and any sign of her moving away from the agreement (difficult to prove, I know but think the boys will tell me), I get a Specific Issues Order raised at court and we move on to Child Arrangement Order too, where I will have a strong case to take the boys full time.

She also claimed I am stalking and snooping on her, even though I told her how I found out about her move, suggested that if I had been given her new address that I might have turned up there and "done something to POSOMs house" (?!?!?) and said that me sending her the two letters and this incident, led her to consider legal action on me stalking her. Un-****ing-believable.

She ended by saying her long term goal is for us all to have dinner together and how she wants me to meet POSOM when I'm ready, to see what a great, calm and good father he is...

Expensive way to have a conversation that should have happened between us long before any of this was actioned but I feel content with the way it turned out and if she doesn't throw straight dice, I can jump in and get the ball rolling on getting the boys here at mine full time. Some of he remarks, allegations and emotional games were just plain amusing to watch from a distance. She is one ****ed up individual but I just felt sorry for her, so disillusional and removed from reality that I do wonder how my boys are going to be affect by her craziness.

Rest of the weekend was amazing...3 nights out in London, gig, football match, friends for dinner and a date; that ended this morning... . So much fun and I'm knackered but I do feel very relaxed about everything - it might be misplaced but I just don't feel the ex will ever get to me much again. Good place to be in.


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> It would be awkward if someone, who seemed to be a person previously hurt by POSOM, would get to hear about his current nefarious activities.
> 
> Especially if they should use an untraceable email account (such as mail.com, for example) to email details to HR.


The untraceable email account should have frayed edges.
Little scraps of fluff that point to someone, but not definitively.

Use something [email protected] as Matt suggests.

The initials 'tgm' could be someone in the organization. Someone that would know about these things.
It is a 'false flag' pointer.

It is a sockpuppet that @EleGirl would sniff out. 

Dirty socks, yuk. :grin2:


----------



## SunCMars

Melrose8888 said:


> I'm knackered but I do feel very relaxed about everything - it might be misplaced but I just don't feel the ex will ever get to me much again. Good place to be in.


Being knackered is being rendered...
From being a Stallion to being dog meat.

Never, ever use that phrase again.
As a former Red Dog I shudder to think.

All those great men and women, whose sides be 'given in', ribs showing. Their backbone sagging in the middle.

Given in, given up.

Up, into that grinder, turned into canned dogfood.

Lest a good Mastif have you for lunch, I beseech you, stand tall, no slouch Thee.
And get your three squares.
Go to the gym and pump iron.

Let no SOB POSOM have you over for lunch...you being the main course for the low-life dog.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, had mediation on Friday. As I walked towards the solicitors, I see the ex wife step out of POSOMS car and, rather bizarrely, as she walked down the path towards the office, he drove along side the pavement looking out the window at her and stopped, waited to make sure she was inside. Most odd.
> 
> Anyway, no small talk, straight into the detail with same mediator we used for divorce sessions in Jan, so she knew the background but was amazed we were already divorced - she thought we were back because of issues before finalising divorce.
> 
> I set my stall out, keeping the focus on what is best for the boys and the ex had her say too. First really odd thing - he reason for not telling me about the move was she said that every time I contact her, be it via text or email (past 3 months its been a weekly email and the odd urgent text) she physically shakes, her heart rate rises and she has to be calmed down. Now, I might have said one or two emotionally abusive things to her over the past 5 years (*****, frigid, bad wife...) but to have this reaction about me, I find it difficult to comprehend?! You could see the mediator looking at me, wondering why - she then suggested that perhaps counselling would be good for the ex. Ha! She just laughed and said Melrose is getting IC but I don't need it...
> 
> Anyway, she then launches into a story about how POSOMs marital status has no bearing and that he was separated from his wife long before we were. I scoffed and got told by the mediator to show some respect. I immediately responded with, I've had no respect from ex for years, so no, I won't sit her and listen to lies in these circumstances without a response.
> 
> She also broke down in tears at my suggestion of taking my boys full time and her having access to them twice a week. Interesting, as I though she might have gone with that one...
> 
> In the end, she tells me she is moving to a village a few miles away and that everything is in place for the boys to have the 'perfect' environment for living. I raised all my concerns, he lack of communication, her going back on the agreements of co-parenting and in the end, with good pushing from the mediator, she agreed to 1) not sleep in the same bed as POSOM when my boys are there 2) That his kids won't stay over when my boys are there / won't bring BF/GF 3) The boys will remain in our local town for schooling until they are 18, so they won't move away even if POSOM does 4) I get first refusal on having the boys (i.e. PSOSM is not left with them / does not take them to school or activities 5) POSOM will not babysit nor will he be left alone with them
> 
> All this will be written up and any sign of her moving away from the agreement (difficult to prove, I know but think the boys will tell me), I get a Specific Issues Order raised at court and we move on to Child Arrangement Order too, where I will have a strong case to take the boys full time.
> 
> She also claimed I am stalking and snooping on her, even though I told her how I found out about her move, suggested that if I had been given her new address that I might have turned up there and "done something to POSOMs house" (?!?!?) and said that me sending her the two letters and this incident, led her to consider legal action on me stalking her. Un-****ing-believable.
> *
> She ended by saying her long term goal is for us all to have dinner together and how she wants me to meet POSOM when I'm ready, to see what a great, calm and good father he is...*
> 
> Expensive way to have a conversation that should have happened between us long before any of this was actioned but I feel content with the way it turned out and if she doesn't throw straight dice, I can jump in and get the ball rolling on getting the boys here at mine full time. Some of he remarks, allegations and emotional games were just plain amusing to watch from a distance. She is one ****ed up individual but I just felt sorry for her, so disillusional and removed from reality that I do wonder how my boys are going to be affect by her craziness.
> 
> Rest of the weekend was amazing...3 nights out in London, gig, football match, friends for dinner and a date; that ended this morning... . So much fun and I'm knackered but I do feel very relaxed about everything - it might be misplaced but I just don't feel the ex will ever get to me much again. Good place to be in.


When hell freezes over would be too soon..


----------



## Affaircare

Melrose8888 said:


> ... In the end, she tells me she is moving to a village a few miles away and that everything is in place for the boys to have the 'perfect' environment for living. I raised all my concerns, he lack of communication, her going back on the agreements of co-parenting and in the end, with good pushing from the mediator, she agreed to 1) not sleep in the same bed as POSOM when my boys are there 2) That his kids won't stay over when my boys are there / won't bring BF/GF 3) The boys will remain in our local town for schooling until they are 18, so they won't move away even if POSOM does 4) I get first refusal on having the boys (i.e. PSOSM is not left with them / does not take them to school or activities 5) POSOM will not babysit nor will he be left alone with them
> 
> All this will be written up and any sign of her moving away from the agreement (difficult to prove, I know but think the boys will tell me), I get a Specific Issues Order raised at court and we move on to Child Arrangement Order too, where I will have a strong case to take the boys full time.
> 
> ... Expensive way to have a conversation that should have happened between us long before any of this was actioned but I feel content with the way it turned out and if she doesn't throw straight dice, I can jump in and get the ball rolling on getting the boys here at mine full time. Some of he remarks, allegations and emotional games were just plain amusing to watch from a distance. She is one ****ed up individual but I just felt sorry for her, so disillusional and removed from reality that I do wonder how my boys are going to be affect by her craziness.
> 
> ...I do feel very relaxed about everything - it might be misplaced but I just don't feel the ex will ever get to me much again. Good place to be in.


This is a fantastic update--glad to hear it. I doubt she will ever "get it" that all she has to do is be adult and honor her agreements, but now she at least as the opportunity to be a civil person and a cooperative parent. She is so clearly making you the scapegoat for her own personal responsibilities that even the mediator can see it! But anyway, now she can either be a civil co-parent or lose time with the kids.


----------



## Evinrude58

Great, calm, good father...
Who leaves his kids' mom for another woman whose home he has demolished.
Who gives your kids hand-me-down toys from his.

Yeah, he calmly ****s up other people's lives for his own selfish benefit.

I wonder what she will say about him when she is boohooing about him doing the same stuff to her in a few years after the new has worn off?
Think he will be a "great, calm father" then?

She sees you all sitting down to supper together as great friends, and him stillbring this great, calm father. 

Yeah,she is definitely in the land of unicorns and rainbows. I'll bet it would be fun to be a fly on the wall with a good view of the karma bus rolling in doing 80mph.....


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, had mediation on Friday. As I walked towards the solicitors, I see the ex wife step out of POSOMS car and, rather bizarrely, as she walked down the path towards the office, he drove along side the pavement looking out the window at her and stopped, waited to make sure she was inside. Most odd.
> 
> Anyway, no small talk, straight into the detail with same mediator we used for divorce sessions in Jan, so she knew the background but was amazed we were already divorced - she thought we were back because of issues before finalising divorce.
> 
> I set my stall out, keeping the focus on what is best for the boys and the ex had her say too. First really odd thing - he reason for not telling me about the move was she said that every time I contact her, be it via text or email (past 3 months its been a weekly email and the odd urgent text) she physically shakes, her heart rate rises and she has to be calmed down. Now, I might have said one or two emotionally abusive things to her over the past 5 years (*****, frigid, bad wife...) but to have this reaction about me, I find it difficult to comprehend?! You could see the mediator looking at me, wondering why - she then suggested that perhaps counselling would be good for the ex. Ha! She just laughed and said Melrose is getting IC but I don't need it...
> 
> Anyway, she then launches into a story about how POSOMs marital status has no bearing and that he was separated from his wife long before we were. I scoffed and got told by the mediator to show some respect. I immediately responded with, I've had no respect from ex for years, so no, I won't sit her and listen to lies in these circumstances without a response.
> 
> She also broke down in tears at my suggestion of taking my boys full time and her having access to them twice a week. Interesting, as I though she might have gone with that one...
> 
> In the end, she tells me she is moving to a village a few miles away and that everything is in place for the boys to have the 'perfect' environment for living. I raised all my concerns, he lack of communication, her going back on the agreements of co-parenting and in the end, with good pushing from the mediator, she agreed to 1) not sleep in the same bed as POSOM when my boys are there 2) That his kids won't stay over when my boys are there / won't bring BF/GF 3) The boys will remain in our local town for schooling until they are 18, so they won't move away even if POSOM does 4) I get first refusal on having the boys (i.e. PSOSM is not left with them / does not take them to school or activities 5) POSOM will not babysit nor will he be left alone with them
> 
> All this will be written up and any sign of her moving away from the agreement (difficult to prove, I know but think the boys will tell me), I get a Specific Issues Order raised at court and we move on to Child Arrangement Order too, where I will have a strong case to take the boys full time.
> 
> She also claimed I am stalking and snooping on her, even though I told her how I found out about her move, suggested that if I had been given her new address that I might have turned up there and "done something to POSOMs house" (?!?!?) and said that me sending her the two letters and this incident, led her to consider legal action on me stalking her. Un-****ing-believable.
> 
> She ended by saying her long term goal is for us all to have dinner together and how she wants me to meet POSOM when I'm ready, to see what a great, calm and good father he is...
> 
> Expensive way to have a conversation that should have happened between us long before any of this was actioned but I feel content with the way it turned out and if she doesn't throw straight dice, I can jump in and get the ball rolling on getting the boys here at mine full time. Some of he remarks, allegations and emotional games were just plain amusing to watch from a distance. She is one ****ed up individual but I just felt sorry for her, so disillusional and removed from reality that I do wonder how my boys are going to be affect by her craziness.
> 
> Rest of the weekend was amazing...3 nights out in London, gig, football match, friends for dinner and a date; that ended this morning... . So much fun and I'm knackered but I do feel very relaxed about everything - it might be misplaced but I just don't feel the ex will ever get to me much again. Good place to be in.


That is one of, if not the best, posts you have made during this journey! High 5

Enforcing this will be hard.... but if this ever comes up again, you can "go for her throat"

Glad you got it in writing they will attend the same school district until 18. Children thrive

in stability. As for her "allegations" .... :rofl: ... but the way UK courts are.... if you're a guy and you

fart too loud and it offends a female, you may serve a few weekends in the clink.

......The dinner request....SMFH....but 'Rose I think you're finally seeing what we all were telling

you from the start. She is in a "spin cycle" and has created this alternative reality.... that she wants 

to be...... "her reality." POSOM bought into it.... or he wouldn't be the POSOM. But 'Rose....

you never bought into it. This bothers her more than you realize. When she realizes this alt-reality

can not be.... she will have a meltdown. And..... POSOM is, no more. That or.... POSOM leeches 

on to his next victim. She will have a meltdown. Either way XW is nearing a meltdown. Not if.... but when.

'Rose you are seeing things as they are..... that is progress. Be prepared for her next BS attempt.....

In the meantime.... get out and enjoy life. Meet new people, women. Let them woo you for

a change. One thing is certain..... your XW reminds me more and more of the female you wanted 

to bang from the married hook-up site. One is just a bit older with more mileage. But the other is 

gaining quickly.


----------



## SunCMars

This POSOM watched her make the walk.
From his car to the Inquisition.

He was there for moral support, from immoral roots.

On this, one cannot resist a chorus of snickers.
For her to claim he is pure and never pulled down her knickers.

Ah, he was separated prior to his dalliances.
But she was together with him prior to.
Her separation of former ass sets.

She wore her husbands ring.
He rang her bell.
She touched his still married thing.

Lying and hypocrasy. Gaslighting, rewriting the marriage and the facts.
This is so old, even in children's rhymes it will be told.


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 This is what your wife is trying to do:






Project an image of herself as a frightened little girl, so scared of the big, bad Melrose Monster that she is scared, scared I tell you, of her own shadow.

You need to make your Solicitor aware of this fraud before she can build up a case against you.

The reaction of POSOM tells me that he might have been fed a load of old bobbins about how abusive you were.

Or did his reaction indicate that he was not trusting her to go in to the office? If not, what's happening there?

Incidentally: "Let's all get together for dinner so you can see how nice POSOM/POSOW is and what a good father/mother they are. You'll really like them!" is a direct copy from the Cheater's Handbook and I have seen it on TAM a number of times since I joined.

I think she read this book:-


----------



## Lostinthought61

Melrose now will you go before the HR department at their office?


----------



## MattMatt

Lostinthought61 said:


> Melrose now will you go before the HR department at their office?


Well, in theory this might work. But the probability is that they'd say: "What our employees do outside of the office is nothing to do with us."


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> She ended by saying her long term goal is for us all to have dinner together and how she wants me to meet POSOM when I'm ready, to see what a great, calm and good father he is...


Only a ****ing doormat with a frontal lobotomy would do that.


----------



## honcho

Each and every ws seems to fall back on the fear/stalking nonsense as the go to excuse for everything. They can't justify why they do what they do so break the rules and blame "fear". They all seem to want you to be buddies with the affair partner afterwards too. I've never understood that.


----------



## Lostinthought61

MattMatt said:


> Well, in theory this might work. But the probability is that they'd say: "What our employees do outside of the office is nothing to do with us."



True Matt, that may be the case but it would be nice for him to stir a little disruption in their perfect life......

i can't remember if melrose is in england or US but there has been cases in which a betrayed spouse has sued the AP for damages to their marriage and family


----------



## MattMatt

Lostinthought61 said:


> True Matt, that may be the case but it would be nice for him to stir a little disruption in their perfect life......
> 
> i can't remember if melrose is in england or US but there has been cases in which a betrayed spouse has sued the AP for damages to their marriage and family


He's in England and, in reality, people rarely give a Tinker's cuss about such matters and alienation of affection was abolished in the UK as long ago as the 1920s, I recall.


----------



## Melrose8888

One year on…

Well TAMMERs, it’s arrived, the first anniversary of D-Day. Like every good review, I’ll start with the rating: 3.5 stars out of 5.

As I recall the 12th December 2016, creeping into our marital bedroom after a sleepless night on the sofa bed, making a grab for her phone, while she was in the shower, I feel only the slightest twang of pain compared to the feeling I had 2 minutes later, one year ago, when I finally had the hard evidence and when I found out it was her boss that she’d been having the affair with.

I’d narrowed it down to three guys but, given how older, balder, ugly he was, had dismissed him. I had even explained away a text I had seen from him to her, 2 weeks earlier that categorically placed him in a hotel room with her at a team night out. So, beware BS, it can be anyone and often the person you least suspect.

I still have moments but these are more moments of anxiety and self-doubt rather than anger, sadness or a sense of loss. In fairness, my progress over the past 3 months has been exponential and as well as TAM support, friends seeing me through, IC and making time for myself, for me, having a new GF has helped me regain some confidence. It has also allowed me to have more sex, better sex and reciprocal sex than I had in the past 7+ years. I need that. I deserve that.

XWW has moved in to a massive rental property with the OM and my boys are there with them (and occasionally his two, older children) the week I don’t have them. He is still nowhere near divorced but I understand from his wife she has finally sent the petition in.

The OMW called me last week to tell me her kids said how wonderful my two sons are and her 15yo son even said “I feel so sorry for those boys, not having their real Dad around”. I can see he takes after his mother not POSOM!

So what do I now feel on the few occasions I see the XW? Pity. Instead of imagining how great her life is, I now see it for what it is – a sham, with deceit and mistrust at the forefront of everything they do. But it’s not my circus. I have put my foot down and ensured the boys will always be near me and won’t be put at unnecessary risk when at that house. It’s all I can do. Yes, it hurts to hear / see their stories, such as them buying a Christmas Tree together like one big happy ‘family’. It irks me when I hear that instead of taking the boys to sports clubs, the XW takes them to watch the OM run or play Basketball. But these things are out of my control and I am, most of the time, at ease with that now.

I thank everyone for support, especially when telling me to focus on the boys. It would have been very easy to lose sight of just how important being stable for them is. It would have been very easy to not fight for the 50% of time I now have with them. They are wonderful and are really the only good thing to come out of my 17 years with the ex-wife.

I thought these first anniversary events would be more difficult but they are passing without too much thought. I have Xmas with the boys and have New Year free (last year was the lowest point of my life, ending the night in the foetal position, bawling my eyes out) so making sure I celebrate in style this year!

I wanted to be able to pass on advice to those BS that are going through the early stages of infidelity themselves. I don’t have any that isn’t already all over TAM; Gather evidence for future use / blackmail, hard 180, cut the ex out of your life completely aside from divorce or kids communications, get the divorce done ASAP (mine was complete exactly 6 months after D-day), block on social media, don’t snoop or stalk – pain shopping is not fun and serves no benefit, be kind to yourself, hit the gym, eat well, drink lots of water, get plenty of sleep, tell your employer what you are going through, reconnect with old friends, cut out the mutual friends who aren’t on your side, meet new friends, join clubs, tentatively date, tell your family friends and children how much you love them, try to see the positive in everything – good mental attitude is vital to recovery.

You will get through it, this too shall pass and you will look back and wonder why you got so upset over someone who could treat you that way. See it as a gift, they have freed you to find something better. Sure, let the emotions ride over you when they appear but then send them back to where they came with a clear message – I am stronger now.

I feel like I have come a long, long way in a year. I am a better person, an even better father, I feel healthier both mentally and physically, I have so much to be thankful for and, most importantly, I now view relationships in a completely different way. I will never fully connect my happiness to another woman, nor will I be scared of losing a GF, I will treat them well but I won’t seek validation from them or be reliant on them in any way. I think that is the biggest positive to come out of this – we were both pretty crap in our marriage, we didn’t really know what we were doing, we didn’t communicate well, I harboured resentment and the XWW never understood my need for sexual fulfilment. Some people are just not meant to be together forever, we’d stopped growing and that isn’t anything to be ashamed of.

I do still post here and try to offer advice when I can, so see you all around.

Season's Greetings,

Melrose


----------



## verpin zal

I always get overjoyed to see a betrayed perform self resuscitation.


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 it is good to hear this positive message from you.

It is helpful for the newly betrayed men and women here to learn that recovery of your self is possible and that there can be a good, positive and healthy life beyond your WS.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Great update. 

Screw her and her tree. Have fun making your own xmas tree with your children. 

Soon enough your kids will tell their Mom "Hey, not really interested in watching you watch fat guy run around. Boring! I am heading to my Dads to do things WITH him - not be a spectator, later".


----------



## Truthseeker1

How any WS who moves in with their AP gets even partial custody is beyond me. A parent who moves in with their AP is a lousy parent. PERIOD. They should lose custody IMO. Glad you are doing well.


----------



## Evinrude58

The more time you spend with your kids making memories and being happy--- the more they will see that their mother greatly wronged you and lose respect for her. Not a goal, just an eventuality.

You're doing good, Melrose. I hope you ditched the cheating gf, if you're the guy that was doing that..... I lose track since I don't come here much anymore.

I ditched my emotionally abusive girlfriend, and finally see my way past her now....... Life goes on. Glad it's going on decently for you.


----------



## MattMatt

A friend of mine was cheated on and she got 50/50 custody.

But over time her boys stopped wanting to go over to stay with their dad and his OW. My friend's lesbian best mate.  Well, former lesbian, perhaps we should say.

Eventually the boys had very, very little to do with their father. He was bitter about that but it was all his own fault.


----------



## Rick Blaine

PHP:







Truthseeker1 said:


> How any WS who moves in with their AP gets even partial custody is beyond me. A parent who moves in with their AP is a lousy parent. PERIOD. They should lose custody IMO. Glad you are doing well.


If the kids told their mom and a judge that they wanted Dad to have full physical custody the judge might listen. So might the Mom. OP should ask the kids how they feel about it.


----------



## Affaircare

@Melrose8888, 

BEST Christmas present EVER!!


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks all - feels good to get that day out the way, New Year is the last anniversary of 'feelings' and then it's onwards and upwards.

Just hoping for a long period of stability for my boys and hope the APs can stick to their side of the bargain and stay together / act adult for all involved.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> One year on…
> 
> Well TAMMERs, it’s arrived, the first anniversary of D-Day. Like every good review, I’ll start with the rating: 3.5 stars out of 5.


It took a couple 2x4s but you got it. It's you and your boys now. No POS WW to deal with.... well

for the most part. My D posts are still on here from five years ago. I hope yours will be as well.

You learned it is better to set free someone you love than to stay with someone you think.... loves you.

I hope you and Danny give @SID SNOT support in his UK struggles.

Date, have fun, get more head than a beauty shop on Saturdays. 

17 years wasted but... you learned, grew, and have two boys.


----------



## Chuck71

Chuck71 said:


> Set that date to be in such a better place. Set attainable goals, 5 easy, 5 semi-difficult,
> 
> 5 long range. Chances are you will not go 15 / 15. But that's your start.


How did you end up doing on these?

.....Also has your mom stopped "chit chatting" with your XW?


----------



## Chuck71

evinrude58 said:


> i ditched my emotionally abusive girlfriend, and finally see my way past her now.......


finally


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> How did you end up doing on these?
> 
> .....Also has your mom stopped "chit chatting" with your XW?


Hi Chuck - hope all is well.

Knocked off the first 10, the long range 5 are progressing well - got potential big work promotion lined up next year, it's my 40th next year too, so some of the bigger goals can be part of that and bought myself a bike for Xmas. Need to make a new list actually!

Yep, mum and I made up and she understood my POV - no correspondence at all between her and XW anymore. XMIL does still send me letter / cards now and again, latest one was "I really hope you can accept what happened". I just laughed and threw it in the bin!


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi Chuck - hope all is well.
> 
> Knocked off the first 10, the long range 5 are progressing well - got potential big work promotion lined up next year, it's my 40th next year too, so some of the bigger goals can be part of that and bought myself a bike for Xmas. Need to make a new list actually!
> 
> Yep, mum and I made up and she understood my POV - no correspondence at all between her and XW anymore. XMIL does still send me letter / cards now and again, latest one was "I really hope you can accept what happened". I just laughed and threw it in the bin!


A Padawan you no longer are...... the Jedi Temple is not far


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Melrose8888 said:


> Hi Chuck - hope all is well.
> 
> Knocked off the first 10, the long range 5 are progressing well - got potential big work promotion lined up next year, it's my 40th next year too, so some of the bigger goals can be part of that and bought myself a bike for Xmas. Need to make a new list actually!
> 
> Yep, mum and I made up and she understood my POV - no correspondence at all between her and XW anymore. XMIL does still send me letter / cards now and again, latest one was "I really hope you can accept what happened". I just laughed and threw it in the bin!


Send the next one from XMIL back unopened. With a letter stating "What happened happened because your daughter is a lying cheating slag who screwed her boss for a promotion and now our children live in a broken homes. I don't care to be reminded by you or anyone else that I have to live with that. Keep your acceptance to yourself and place it where the sun does not shine! ". 

Nothing wrong with telling people off who butt in with unsolicited nonsense that does nothing for you but rationalizes the choices of the people who hurt you. Tell her to mind their own business and f off.


----------



## Melrose8888

Happy New Year all! May 2018 be your year.

It was exactly 12 months ago that I joined TAM and made my first post. It was the first major step to my recovery and although, like many, like Danny et al, I still have some way to go. But that is fine, I'm excited about what I'll learn and how much I'll grow.

Spent 72 hours with my GF, spent new years with her group of friends and in bed 
Much better than crying in the fetal position like last NYE...
@MattMatt - lets move this back to CWI please, let's share the story and it may provide hope to someone who feels like I did a year ago.

All the best,
Melrose


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Happy New Year all! May 2018 be your year.
> 
> It was exactly 12 months ago that I joined TAM and made my first post. It was the first major step to my recovery and although, like many, like Danny et al, I still have some way to go. But that is fine, I'm excited about what I'll learn and how much I'll grow.
> 
> Spent 72 hours with my GF, spent new years with her group of friends and in bed
> Much better than crying in the fetal position like last NYE...
> 
> @MattMatt - lets move this back to CWI please, let's share the story and it may provide hope to someone who feels like I did a year ago.
> 
> All the best,
> Melrose


I hope I can speak for everyone by saying...... "you're welcome," and pay it forward.

Today......a newby will begin a post about his / her struggles with WS. Play your part in

advising them wisely.... and they will be making a post, just like this one..... 1/1/2019.


----------



## Marc878

May 2018 be your breakout year man!!!!


----------



## MattMatt

Melrose8888 said:


> Happy New Year all! May 2018 be your year.
> 
> It was exactly 12 months ago that I joined TAM and made my first post. It was the first major step to my recovery and although, like many, like Danny et al, I still have some way to go. But that is fine, I'm excited about what I'll learn and how much I'll grow.
> 
> Spent 72 hours with my GF, spent new years with her group of friends and in bed
> Much better than crying in the fetal position like last NYE...
> 
> @MattMatt - lets move this back to CWI please, let's share the story and it may provide hope to someone who feels like I did a year ago.
> 
> All the best,
> Melrose


 @Melrose8888 just moved it for you. Happy New Year!


----------



## SunCMars

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Send the next one from XMIL back unopened. With a letter stating "What happened happened because your daughter is a lying cheating slag who screwed her boss for a promotion and now our children live in a broken homes. I don't care to be reminded by you or anyone else that I have to live with that. Keep your acceptance to yourself and place it where the sun does not shine! ".
> 
> Nothing wrong with telling people off who butt in with unsolicited nonsense that does nothing for you but rationalizes the choices of the people who hurt you. Tell her to mind their own business and f off.


Yes.

I give this the official, computer Mouse Creeping Award.

It comes from @MattMatt's outfit. The New Millenial Beefsteak Club.

These Millennial Beefs are not carnage, not carnal, not protein, na boef.

They equate to, are slights, hurt feelings, that are provided relief by actions, not words of endearment concerning beef.

It is a Karma recognizing club. Karma played out in the first person. Not waiting on Fate to right the wrong.

A fine award, THIS..

The Martian-


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> @Melrose8888 just moved it for you. Happy New Year!


Ah, what a Man, what a Magician...

Happy New Year to you and to @Melrose8888.

I have a problem, too, one that needs moving.
Uh, I am constipated from all that hard, dry as dust, Hogmanay.
Can you reach out to me and get it flowing downstream.

And me back hoits, from all da Salt, Coal and Bread carried through Penn Station, in their front door out their back. 
I am hopin' to bring the Luck of the Scotch-Irish to those poor Blue Staters. And maybe a few smiles to their frowning faces.
And maybe I can get their bowels moving. Get them to crap out, flush away all their progressive leaders.

SunCMars- poised to attacked by Appalachian Banshees.


----------



## MattMatt

SunCMars said:


> Ah, what a Man, what a Magician...
> 
> Happy New Year to you and to @Melrose8888.
> 
> I have a problem, too, one that needs moving.
> Uh, I am constipated from all that hard, dry as dust, Hogmanay.
> Can you reach out to me and get it flowing downstream.
> 
> And me back hoits, from all da Salt, Coal and Bread carried through Penn Station, in their front door out their back.
> I am hopin' to bring the Luck of the Scotch-Irish to those poor Blue Staters. And maybe a few smiles to their frowning faces.
> And maybe I can get their bowels moving. Get them to crap out, flush away all their progressive leaders.
> 
> SunCMars- poised to attacked by Appalachian Banshees.


Prune juice.


----------



## SunCMars

Ah, yes prune juice.

You cannot drink it if is from the wrong source, also, if it has not aged.

Taken, drop by drop from an unhappy women. Not taken all. Please, No!

Leaving her some to flesh out, flush out her story of woes
Leaving some for some kind man to lick off her cheeks, off all of her, to her toes.

Holding her thin shoulders to his.
Comforting her and hoping...

Hoping she does not wake up and cast him away.
Away, as she has done to others who came her way.
...................................................................................................
Prunus domestica;

The women who @Melrose8888 married, The once sweet luxurious Briton Plum, she gave off her juices to an old fool.
Ah, that now vapid woman, she who morphed is now a dried prune.

She has her riches, and no virile man to share these fortunes with. 
No man to take those shoulders and rub them....to pain free.

Her pain... earned, taken, an offshoot from those that she injured.
More will come to her than so displayed.
Yes, a process slow in dispatch, one never to her, inured.

We hope. :smile2:


----------



## PDXGuardsman

Spicy said:


> First of all, welcome to the Forum, but I'm sorry for you and your boys as to why you are here.
> 
> 
> 
> In reading your description, I would say, "Yes, you should give up." She is giving no indication of wanting another try. She is blatantly carrying on an affair with her boss, and rubbing your nose in it. She's done with you. She's not coming back.
> 
> 
> 
> You absolutely need to tell her bosses wife and HR at their company ASAP. The other betrayed spouse deserves this knowledge immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> Take care of yourself and your boys right now. Eat healthy, get sleep, exercise. It is time to move on. You deserve way better than this woman.




I disagree with the idea of ruining someone else’s marriage by calling the boss’s wife. I know it hurts to find out your spouse is in an EA. I know it’s normal to feel like retaliating. But in the end this accomplishes nothing but BRIEFLY feeding your ego. Think about your own two children. Imagine the hurt you will cause the boss’s family. Do you want that on your conscience? The sooner you let it go and move on, the sooner you’ll be free of the baggage this sad situation has created.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

PDXGuardsman said:


> I disagree with the idea of ruining someone else’s marriage by calling the boss’s wife. I know it hurts to find out your spouse is in an EA. I know it’s normal to feel like retaliating. But in the end this accomplishes nothing but BRIEFLY feeding your ego. Think about your own two children. Imagine the hurt you will cause the boss’s family. Do you want that on your conscience? The sooner you let it go and move on, the sooner you’ll be free of the baggage this sad situation has created.


Nonsense. Do YOU want to go through life in a marriage where you don't know your spouse is cheating on you?


----------



## PDXGuardsman

turnera said:


> Nonsense. Do YOU want to go through life in a marriage where you don't know your spouse is cheating on you?




How do you know that the boss’s wife doesn’t know already? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## turnera

Well, if she already knows, then you're not 'causing any hurt,' are you? You've done your due diligence - informing a spouse that their spouse is cheating - and you move on. NOT informing that spouse is you maintaining some sort of control over their life that they may not be privy to.


----------



## 5Creed

PDXGuardsman said:


> I disagree with the idea of ruining someone else’s marriage by calling the boss’s wife. I know it hurts to find out your spouse is in an EA. I know it’s normal to feel like retaliating. But in the end this accomplishes nothing but BRIEFLY feeding your ego. Think about your own two children. Imagine the hurt you will cause the boss’s family. Do you want that on your conscience? The sooner you let it go and move on, the sooner you’ll be free of the baggage this sad situation has created.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You aren't ruining a marriage by letting the other spouse know. It's already ruined. It isn't retaliating at all. It is letting her have the knowledge and then allowing her to do what she needs to do. It isn't on the person telling. They didn't hurt the children, they didn't break up the family. HE did and she has every right to know. It is her life, her decision and her husband.


----------



## PDXGuardsman

5Creed said:


> You aren't ruining a marriage by letting the other spouse know. It's already ruined. It isn't retaliating at all. It is letting her have the knowledge and then allowing her to do what she needs to do. It isn't on the person telling. They didn't hurt the children, they didn't break up the family. HE did and she has every right to know. It is her life, her decision and.
> 
> 
> I tend to focus on me when I have a problem and not on others...because I have no control over others. If you want to talk about “rights,” let’s talk about the poster’s right to ruin another person’s marriage. The poster’s problem is with his wife. Not his wife’s boss or the boss’s family. Don’t you see that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nucking Futs

PDXGuardsman said:


> 5Creed said:
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't ruining a marriage by letting the other spouse know. It's already ruined. It isn't retaliating at all. It is letting her have the knowledge and then allowing her to do what she needs to do. It isn't on the person telling. They didn't hurt the children, they didn't break up the family. HE did and she has every right to know. It is her life, her decision and.
> 
> 
> I tend to focus on me when I have a problem and not on others...because I'm selfish and I have no empathy. If you want to talk about “rights,” let’s talk about the poster’s right to ruin another person’s marriage. The poster’s problem is with his wife. Not his wife’s boss or the boss’s family. Don’t you see that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Fify.
Click to expand...


----------



## turnera

No, I absolutely do not see that, not when it's ME who has the information that person needs to make an informed decision on his/her own life. That's like seeing a person about to step in front of a speeding car; I could ignore it, since, you know, it's not my family and none of my business. But I tend to care about being a better person and helping others. You don't care? Then don't. But don't try to convince people they're doing something wrong when we have years of evidence to support that people are thankful for being informed.


----------



## PDXGuardsman

turnera said:


> No, I absolutely do not see that, not when it's ME who has the information that person needs to make an informed decision on his/her own life. That's like seeing a person about to step in front of a speeding car; I could ignore it, since, you know, it's not my family and none of my business. But I tend to care about being a better person and helping others. You don't care? Then don't. But don't try to convince people they're doing something wrong when we have years of evidence to support that people are thankful for being informed.




It is not the same as seeing someone step in front of a speeding car. Not even close. If the shoe doesn’t fit. Don’t put it on. In other words...if you don’t like what I say...move on. What I share is my own opinion based on my experience


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nucking Futs

PDXGuardsman said:


> It is not the same as seeing someone step in front of a speeding car. Not even close. If the shoe doesn’t fit. Don’t put it on. In other words...if you don’t like what I say...move on. What I share is my own opinion based on my experience
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really? How much experience do you have with informing the other betrayed spouse?


----------



## Thor

Nucking Futs said:


> Really? How much experience do you have with informing the other betrayed spouse?


And how much experience being cheated on by a spouse while other people know about it but don't let the BS know?

That's ok, though. PDX is the fng here who has waded into an always contentious topic guaranteed to end up with rancorous infighting on the forum.


----------



## PDXGuardsman

Nucking Futs said:


> Really? How much experience do you have with informing the other betrayed spouse?




Seems like you have no problems giving advice with over 3000 posts. You must be a freaking genius...and one who is high drama. It’s a bad enough situation without having to make it worse. But go on...tell the guy that it’s ok. If he does I hope he shares the experience with all of us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nucking Futs

PDXGuardsman said:


> Seems like you have no problems giving advice with over 3000 posts. You must be a freaking genius...and one who is high drama. It’s a bad enough situation without having to make it worse. But go on...tell the guy that it’s ok. If he does I hope he shares the experience with all of us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, I'm going to guess by the way you "answered" my question that you have no experience, which means you're pulling your advice out of your ass.


----------



## turnera

PDXGuardsman said:


> Seems like you have no problems giving advice with over 3000 posts. You must be a freaking genius...and one who is high drama. It’s a bad enough situation without having to make it worse. But go on...tell the guy that it’s ok. If he does I hope he shares the experience with all of us.


Well, if our experience is any indicator, experience that spans 20+ years of helping people like him, they will be grateful to know and thankful for being informed.


----------



## SunCMars

PDXGuardsman said:


> 5Creed said:
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't ruining a marriage by letting the other spouse know. It's already ruined. It isn't retaliating at all. It is letting her have the knowledge and then allowing her to do what she needs to do. It isn't on the person telling. They didn't hurt the children, they didn't break up the family. HE did and she has every right to know. It is her life, her decision and.
> 
> I tend to focus on me when I have a problem and not on others...because I have no control over others. If you want to talk about “rights,” let’s talk about the poster’s right to ruin another person’s marriage. The poster’s problem is with his wife. Not his wife’s boss or the boss’s family. Don’t you see that?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> I see a man who would allow the world around him to disintegrate.
> When the ordinary man does nothing to stop evil, he is part of the evil.
> The overlooking, self absorbed part, kind of evil.
> 
> Saying to himself, "That is their problem, not mine".
> 
> The world does not revolve about you.....:surprise:
> It revolves about all of us.
> 
> We are in this atmosphere, this soup, together.
> For good, bad or for evil.
> 
> Climb out of your' shell, it is not a sanctuary.
> We can see in. Even if you cannot see out. :|
> 
> SunCMars-
Click to expand...


----------



## toblerone

PDXGuardsman said:


> How do you know that the boss’s wife doesn’t know already?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In which case, no harm is done, so why is it even an issue if he called her?



PDXGuardsman said:


> I tend to focus on me when I have a problem and not on others...because I have no control over others. If you want to talk about “rights,” let’s talk about the poster’s right to ruin another person’s marriage. The poster’s problem is with his wife. Not his wife’s boss or the boss’s family. Don’t you see that?


Hm. Yes. It was the phone call that ruined the marriage, not the cheating. Good point.


----------



## PDXGuardsman

SunCMars said:


> PDXGuardsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see a man who would allow the world around him to disintegrate.
> When the ordinary man does nothing to stop evil, he is part of the evil.
> The overlooking, self absorbed part, kind of evil.
> 
> Saying to himself, "That is their problem, not mine".
> 
> The world does not revolve about you.....:surprise:
> It revolves about all of us.
> 
> We are in this atmosphere, this soup, together.
> For good, bad or for evil.
> 
> Climb out of your' shell, it is not a sanctuary.
> We can see in. Even if you cannot see out. :|
> 
> SunCMars-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys...all of you who criticizes someone for sharing their perspective on an open forum are cracking me up. As for my shell...how many wars have you fought in? How many years did you serve in the military. People like you are bullies. When someone speaks their mind you criticize. My guess you need a sight like this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## Chuck71

PDXGuardsman said:


> Seems like you have no problems giving advice with over 3000 posts. You must be a freaking genius...and one who is high drama. It’s a bad enough situation without having to make it worse. But go on...tell the guy that it’s ok. If he does I hope he shares the experience with all of us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And 6500 likes received...... yeah... he's pretty damn good at giving advice....


----------



## PDXGuardsman

Chuck71 said:


> And 6500 likes received...... yeah... he's pretty damn good at giving advice....




It’s easy to give advice...especially for easy things like telling someone to retaliate. Opinions are like belly buttons...everyone has one and they all stink.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tatsuhiko

PDXGuardsman said:


> SunCMars said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys...all of you who criticizes someone for sharing their perspective on an open forum are cracking me up. As for my shell...how many wars have you fought in? How many years did you serve in the military. People like you are bullies. When someone speaks their mind you criticize. My guess you need a sight like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Now playing the victim... sigh. After having criticized others' perspectives, is now angry to have his own perspective criticized. Yeah, that makes sense. And because you were in combat, your opinions about obscuring the truth, and keeping some sucker in the dark have more relevance. Right. I, for one, am certainly tired of this "sight".
Click to expand...


----------



## toblerone

PDX:

While there is not an insignificant number of people here who'd recommend revealing the affair to the OM's wife just on account of 'revenge', there are a whole hell of a lot of people here who think revealing the affair is the right thing to do.

The train of thought is this:
They would have loved to have found out sooner if their SO cheated on them. It would have made things drag on less, or felt like a fool for a shorter amount of time. Less time would have been wasted in a sham marriage.

Does not the OM's wife deserve this as well, or should she kept ignorant of her husband's cheating? Is that doing right by her?

The vast majority of people here advocate revealing the affair not to share the hurt, but to fairly share the knowledge with someone else who deserves to know what's going on.

After all: wouldn't you rather know if your wife is cheating on you, rather than not?


----------



## SunCMars

PDXGuardsman said:


> SunCMars said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys...all of you who criticizes someone for sharing their perspective on an open forum are cracking me up. As for my shell...how many wars have you fought in? How many years did you serve in the military. People like you are bullies. When someone speaks their mind you criticize. My guess you need a sight like this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, a poor choice as a means of retort, a means of verbal retaliation.
> 
> I served just shy of forty years. Vietnam, Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom.
> 
> Now, I apologize for ruffling your feathers. I have had mine handed to me to chew on; oh, more than once! :grin2::grin2:
> 
> Now, keep in mind...be careful.
> Fighting on TAM is a banning offense. Been there, done that..
> Over, out.....
> 
> PS..
> I know what PDX is. yep, sure do.
Click to expand...


----------



## GusPolinski

PDXGuardsman said:


> It’s easy to give advice...especially for easy things like telling someone to retaliate. Opinions are like belly buttons...everyone has one and they all stink.


Don’t know about most, but I wash my belly button daily.

And you get that, per your quote, your opinion stinks?

Don’t get me wrong — I agree.

Because all you’ve offered thus far is moral escapism and cowardice.

Either way, it’s great that you favor facts over opinions, because that’s what we’re talking about giving to betrayed spouses — facts.

Fact: “Your spouse is cheating on you with my spouse...”

Opinion: “...and I think you should divorce.”

Truth never ruins anything — it’s the action (or, just as often, the inaction) taken both beforehand and afterward that does that.


----------



## Spicy

PDXGuardsman said:


> I disagree with the idea of ruining someone else’s marriage by calling the boss’s wife. I know it hurts to find out your spouse is in an EA. I know it’s normal to feel like retaliating. But in the end this accomplishes nothing but BRIEFLY feeding your ego. Think about your own two children. Imagine the hurt you will cause the boss’s family. Do you want that on your conscience? The sooner you let it go and move on, the sooner you’ll be free of the baggage this sad situation has created.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I stand behind what I said. *Whoever is being cheated on deserves to know.*

For me to do this, it would be the opposite of feeding my ego...it would devastate my ego to have to expose this betrayal...but I believe these few things:

The truth will set you free.
Knowledge is power.
Rug sweeping never works


----------



## Chuck71

PDXGuardsman said:


> It’s easy to give advice...especially for easy things like telling someone to retaliate. Opinions are like belly buttons...everyone has one and they all stink.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yet his likes show he is great at his craft here.


----------



## Melrose8888

If you hadn't made the serviceman reference I'd have suspected you were my ex wife or the boss himself...

In any case, I told the OM wife and she thanked me for the information. She had her suspicions and in this case, it allowed her to know the reason her husband was acting strange (she thought he was ill, in fact, she thought he was suicidal like his grand father and had her MIL over to talk to their children about it).

It also allowed her to get angry, to ensure she is going to get what she deserves in the ongoing divorce and move on instead of taking him back after yet another affair.

I debated long and hard about telling her, it was painful and scary at the time.

I'd say I did the right thing and would do it again.


----------



## Thor

PDXGuardsman said:


> You guys...all of you who criticizes someone for sharing their perspective on an open forum are cracking me up. As for my shell...how many wars have you fought in? How many years did you serve in the military. People like you are bullies. When someone speaks their mind you criticize. My guess you need a sight like this.


So, what's your story? Why are you here? All of your posts so far are basically hand grenades tossed into the fray.


----------



## SunCMars

Thor said:


> PDXGuardsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your story? Why are you here? All of your posts so far are basically hand grenades tossed into the fray.
> 
> 
> 
> Somehow the above quote and quoter, is attached to my hide.
> It is not mine, Kind Sir, I never uttered it! Wrote it, the above.
> 
> It is connected to @PDXGuardsman.
> 
> And shifted, by God, underhandedly, cleverly to me!
> 
> Wow! Put this puppy to bed.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> The real SunCMars
Click to expand...


----------



## Thor

Oops, sorry SunC. I didn't proofread after posting, and somehow picked up bad html code for attribution. It was intended for PDX.

I am curious about very low count posters who act like experts and do nothing but stir the pot on usually contentious issues.


----------



## Chuck71

Thor said:


> Oops, sorry SunC. I didn't proofread after posting, and somehow picked up bad html code for attribution. It was intended for PDX.
> 
> I am curious about very low count posters who act like experts and do nothing but stir the pot on usually contentious issues.


*Chucky sits in the back with his hand raised*

Some people will validate anything.... for attention. Negative attention always trumps no attention.

Misery.... always loves company. 

These holidays have a lot of downtime. Some people get board and.... well.... stir the pot.

As a mod on another site for ten years.... always had this around Christmas / NYE... and 

the summer break. They're like a fart in the wind, EWWWWW and they go away.

This site is like any other..... to have a respected opinion.... you have to earn it.

PDX has not earned anything..... mainly from his / her defensiveness and victim chair speak.

PS-TAM has an ignore function.....


----------



## annvictor56

Rubix Cubed said:


> ^ This^ All of it.
> I would also add don't give her until the end of January to move out, if she plans to keep blatantly rubbing her affair with her boss in your face.
> Give her the boot NOW!


I would give her the boot..get her out of the house asap...and welcome to tour new life . It's 2018 start it positive ..good luck with everything the boys needs you. Put yourself in counseling too

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

He can't just kick her out. Especially in England. Most of the time the courts give the wife the house and make the husband move out, even when the wife is the one who cheated and broke the marriage. Husbands and fathers have zero rights in England. Pretty sad.


----------



## Chuck71

bandit.45 said:


> He can't just kick her out. Especially in England. Most of the time the courts give the wife the house and make the husband move out, even when the wife is the one who cheated and broke the marriage. Husbands and fathers have zero rights in England. Pretty sad.


And WW know this. Enter broken homes. Followed by their children repeating pattern.

In the meantime, many decide M is not for them. Have children, sure... but no M.

Give it.... about three more generations. Late 21st century... M will be near obsolete in GB.

Fewer two-parents raising children. Social fabric..... destroyed. Best way to "kill" a nation, or make

it less relevant is not to fire a single shot or a single bomb....... Destroy it at it's foundation.

-But....but....that couldn't happen to mighty England in less than a century-

Compare England post-WW1..... to today. 

BTW-How's things 'Rose?


----------



## Thor

Chuck71 said:


> -But....but....that couldn't happen to mighty England in less than a century-
> 
> Compare England post-WW1..... to today.


I have many relatives in England born in the late 1920's to 1930's. What they have seen in their lifetimes has them very upset. One of my relatives said to me "I am glad I am on my way out, and not on my way in".

It is very sad.

The same kind of effects are quite apparent with our lower income classes, where the welfare programs actively encourage multiple children by single mothers with multiple unidentified fathers. The breakdown of the family has been a direct cause of poverty, crime, substance abuse, and failure of the society.


----------



## toblerone

Thor said:


> Oops, sorry SunC. I didn't proofread after posting, and somehow picked up bad html code for attribution. It was intended for PDX.
> 
> I am curious about very low count posters who act like experts and do nothing but stir the pot on usually contentious issues.


This forum doesn't seem to be able to handle quotes nested inside of quotes.


----------



## Chuck71

toblerone said:


> This forum doesn't seem to be able to handle quotes nested inside of quotes.


Wait till you make a post and can't see it for several days LOL

Or if you do see it, it is post #423 but the next to last one you can see is #397


----------



## Chuck71

Thor said:


> I have many relatives in England born in the late 1920's to 1930's. What they have seen in their lifetimes has them very upset. One of my relatives said to me "I am glad I am on my way out, and not on my way in".
> 
> It is very sad.
> 
> The same kind of effects are quite apparent with our lower income classes, where the welfare programs actively encourage multiple children by single mothers with multiple unidentified fathers. The breakdown of the family has been a direct cause of poverty, crime, substance abuse, and failure of the society.


Thank you for the input. I'd like your thoughts on this if you wouldn't mind........

I still say UT-Chattanooga is a third rate institution outside of the history and business department. I received my undergrad there bit over 20 years ago. There was a professor there, Dr. Linnermann.... he dressed like a janitor but would spout off three hour lectures with zero notes like we would scratching our head.

He often said...."For centuries, England was 'king chit'... the only war they thoroughly lost was the Revolutionary War but that was like the kid brother finally whipping his big brother's arse. They carved up Africa, not to mention other areas after WW1. They decided after WW2, they needed to liquidate some of their assets. They gave independence to too many countries, too quickly. Many of those countries, to this day (this was Fall 1993) have a government overthrow about every 5-10 years. What started their downfall? The pre started with the Boar Wars, then the Mau Mau Revolt. But what weakened England was the Suez Canal Crisis. They called England's bluff. And Eisenhower would not back them....some solid reason, some pathetic. But when Egypt called their bluff, everything changed. The poor showing in Indo-China further weakened them on the national stage."


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Chuck71 said:


> Wait till you make a post and can't see it for several days LOL
> 
> Or if you do see it, it is post #423 but the next to last one you can see is #397


 @Chuck71 
Try expanding the 'posts per page' amount to the max allowed. That fixed that problem for me months ago. Not sure why but it did. It does throw things off a bit when people talk about how many pages there are or give a page number.


----------



## Thor

Chuck71 said:


> Thank you for the input. I'd like your thoughts on this if you wouldn't mind........


While I am not any kind of expert on the topic, my theory is that colonialism became an unsustainable model with WWII. Too much international transportation, communication, and commerce. The industrial revolution mechanized so much of production, and that mechanization spread with the economic boom of early post WWII. The native populations of colonized lands had become part of fighting for freedom in WWII, or had been invaded by Axis powers and then seen liberation by the Allies.

Churchill made the saving of the British Empire a key part of his overall WWII strategy, but ironically it may have hastened the end of the empire. Had he ignored northern Africa, the middle east, and Asia at first, and had he concentrated on beating the Nazis within Europe, the war may have ended earlier. The Axis forces would have been orphaned and would have failed once Germany itself fell. Britain could have then walked back in as heroes to their colonies. Instead, local populations participated actively in fighting for their freedom, and/or suffered greatly from the fighting within their countries.

Europeans and Americans had a big awakening, too, with WWII. Prior to that, other cultures were seen as savage, primitive, generally inferior, or needing benevolent stewardship from educated wealthy western countries. At least from the standpoint of the general masses this was the view, due to a lot of ignorance. Explorers had barely been to the north and south poles! Great swaths of the planet were uncharted by westerners.

But WWII took Brits and Americans all over the planet. The will to use force to keep colonials under control after WWII evaporated.

The end of empires was inevitable. Even the USSR failed for the same kinds of reasons.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Thor said:


> While I am not any kind of expert on the topic, my theory is that colonialism became an unsustainable model with WWII. Too much international transportation, communication, and commerce. The industrial revolution mechanized so much of production, and that mechanization spread with the economic boom of early post WWII. The native populations of colonized lands had become part of fighting for freedom in WWII, or had been invaded by Axis powers and then seen liberation by the Allies.
> 
> Churchill made the saving of the British Empire a key part of his overall WWII strategy, but ironically it may have hastened the end of the empire. Had he ignored northern Africa, the middle east, and Asia at first, and had he concentrated on beating the Nazis within Europe, the war may have ended earlier. The Axis forces would have been orphaned and would have failed once Germany itself fell. Britain could have then walked back in as heroes to their colonies. Instead, local populations participated actively in fighting for their freedom, and/or suffered greatly from the fighting within their countries.
> 
> Europeans and Americans had a big awakening, too, with WWII. Prior to that, other cultures were seen as savage, primitive, generally inferior, or needing benevolent stewardship from educated wealthy western countries. At least from the standpoint of the general masses this was the view, due to a lot of ignorance. Explorers had barely been to the north and south poles! Great swaths of the planet were uncharted by westerners.
> 
> But WWII took Brits and Americans all over the planet. The will to use force to keep colonials under control after WWII evaporated.
> 
> The end of empires was inevitable. Even the USSR failed for the same kinds of reasons.


Well the United States emerged as the world power after WWII, and the US was never has an imperialistic appetite save for maybe the Spanish American War and Manifest Destiny. But there was a strong concern for a fostering a sphere of influence around republican democratic and free market principals. The Marshall Plan was a great model for getting weakened countries back on their feet and fitting within the freedoms of Western democracy.


----------



## MattMatt

MODERATOR MESSAGE 

Please stop with the socio-political threadjacking.


----------



## Melrose8888

Well, I did history at A level but I'm learning something!

All is good, Chuck. A period of stability which is good for all.

A few longer term concerns or, as I try to see them, opportunities. Will likely be made redundant at the end of the year. Pay off should cover any time out of work and it gives me a chance to get a local job (removes 2 hour round commute) and potentially a change in careers. Nervous given my mortgage and monthly outgoings but worst case I sell up and downsize to be mortgage free.

GF (of 3 months) is keen for her and her kid to meet my boys but I am taking it steady, so have declined for now. I think it's a big thing and I don't want them getting attached to anyone when I myself am still finding out about her, as well as finding out about myself. It's a slightly unwelcome hiccup in an otherwise great relationship but no need to rush anything and if she has an issue with it then it's a shame but I'm happy to enjoy what we had and move on.

Still a few odd communications from the ex. She took delight in telling me, via our weekly update email, how the boys have really grown close to their 'new family' as his kids have been around a lot of Xmas. I just laughed and felt sorry for everyone involved. Must be difficult for his kids too, especially with a 8-12 year age gap. Long may that friendly behaviour continue but I do get a sense of reality biting a little in paradise...

Started to make plans for birthday and already have holiday with my boys booked, lads golf trips, weekends away, gigs etc lined up. Lots to look forward to!


----------



## Marc878

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, I did history at A level but I'm learning something!
> 
> All is good, Chuck. A period of stability which is good for all.
> 
> A few longer term concerns or, as I try to see them, opportunities. Will likely be made redundant at the end of the year. Pay off should cover any time out of work and it gives me a chance to get a local job (removes 2 hour round commute) and potentially a change in careers. Nervous given my mortgage and monthly outgoings but worst case I sell up and downsize to be mortgage free.
> 
> GF (of 3 months) is keen for her and her kid to meet my boys but I am taking it steady, so have declined for now. I think it's a big thing and I don't want them getting attached to anyone when I myself am still finding out about her, as well as finding out about myself. It's a slightly unwelcome hiccup in an otherwise great relationship but no need to rush anything and if she has an issue with it then it's a shame but I'm happy to enjoy what we had and move on.
> 
> Still a few odd communications from the ex. *She took delight in telling me, via our weekly update email, how the boys have really grown close to their 'new family' as his kids have been around a lot of Xmas.* I just laughed and felt sorry for everyone involved. Must be difficult for his kids too, especially with a 8-12 year age gap. Long may that friendly behaviour continue but I do get a sense of reality biting a little in paradise...
> 
> Started to make plans for birthday and already have holiday with my boys booked, lads golf trips, weekends away, gigs etc lined up. Lots to look forward to!


Cut out the weekly updates. You don't need that. She has her time and you have yours.

The less contact the better for you.

Go your own way


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Well, I did history at A level but I'm learning something!
> 
> All is good, Chuck. A period of stability which is good for all.
> 
> A few longer term concerns or, as I try to see them, opportunities. Will likely be made redundant at the end of the year. Pay off should cover any time out of work and it gives me a chance to get a local job (removes 2 hour round commute) and potentially a change in careers. Nervous given my mortgage and monthly outgoings but worst case I sell up and downsize to be mortgage free.
> 
> GF (of 3 months) is keen for her and her kid to meet my boys but I am taking it steady, so have declined for now. I think it's a big thing and I don't want them getting attached to anyone when I myself am still finding out about her, as well as finding out about myself. It's a slightly unwelcome hiccup in an otherwise great relationship but no need to rush anything and if she has an issue with it then it's a shame but I'm happy to enjoy what we had and move on.
> 
> Still a few odd communications from the ex. She took delight in telling me, via our weekly update email, how the boys have really grown close to their 'new family' as his kids have been around a lot of Xmas. I just laughed and felt sorry for everyone involved. Must be difficult for his kids too, especially with a 8-12 year age gap. Long may that friendly behaviour continue but I do get a sense of reality biting a little in paradise...
> 
> Started to make plans for birthday and already have holiday with my boys booked, lads golf trips, weekends away, gigs etc lined up. Lots to look forward to!


-Let's see if I can make 'Rose jealous. POSOM... watch this!- Guess that went over like a wet beer

fart at a Saturday afternoon Baptist revival. Do I think she is full 'a sheet? Yeah, I do.

But the catch is, and you caught it, is to pay as much attention to her words as you would a 

street drunk at 4am. Future focus is you.... and the kids. No.....one......else.

If you ever feel down n out, read your posts from a year ago. Can't get any more clear.

The g/f..... keep boundaries firm. If ya ain't ready, ya ain't. Case closed.

And don't fall for -well you met my kids, when can i met yours- We know where that crap goes.......

Hey..... I know Englanders watch the Super Bowl..... what about the playoffs?


----------



## Melrose8888

Chuck71 said:


> -Let's see if I can make 'Rose jealous. POSOM... watch this!- Guess that went over like a wet beer
> 
> fart at a Saturday afternoon Baptist revival. Do I think she is full 'a sheet? Yeah, I do.
> 
> But the catch is, and you caught it, is to pay as much attention to her words as you would a
> 
> street drunk at 4am. Future focus is you.... and the kids. No.....one......else.
> 
> If you ever feel down n out, read your posts from a year ago. Can't get any more clear.
> 
> The g/f..... keep boundaries firm. If ya ain't ready, ya ain't. Case closed.
> 
> And don't fall for -well you met my kids, when can i met yours- We know where that crap goes.......
> 
> Hey..... I know Englanders watch the Super Bowl..... what about the playoffs?


I'm behind the Jaguars in the wild card. Shad Khan also owns Fulham FC in London, who I have a soft spot for.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> I'm behind the Jaguars in the wild card. Shad Khan also owns Fulham FC in London, who I have a soft spot for.


Nice! I'm hoping they beat Buffalo. My team, Pittsburgh has a bit of a score to settle the week after

with their punk ass RB. Just sayin'


----------



## GusPolinski

toblerone said:


> This forum doesn't seem to be able to handle quotes nested inside of quotes.


You can do it manually.


----------



## weightlifter

farsidejunky said:


> You leverage the identity of the POSOM in order to secure the best possible divorce settlement.
> 
> That is how you seek justice in this situation.


Revenge is a dish best served cold.


----------



## Melrose8888

Go Jaguars!! ?


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Still a few odd communications from the ex. She took delight in telling me, via our weekly update email, how the boys have really grown close to their 'new family' as his kids have been around a lot of Xmas. I just laughed and felt sorry for everyone involved. Must be difficult for his kids too, especially with a 8-12 year age gap. Long may that friendly behavior continue but I do get a sense of reality biting a little in paradise...



To Melrose
Your cheating ex-wife and her betraying BF/shack up will have FOUR teenagers to bring up in the next 10 years. It is very difficult to have a great relationship when you have to raise teenagers without having all the baggage that your ex-wife and the POSOM have. With the baggage that your ex-wife and the POSOM have it is almost impossible. Those two betrayers will start to experience their own selfishness in the years to come. No matter how they spin it; one truth is that they both chose to damage their children so they could get their selfish desires filled for a short period. They do not have good character; they have violated trust, commitment, loyalty, and honesty in a very powerful way that reveal the level of selfishness they both have. After their first year or two of their honeymoon period, reality will start to set in and they will either split up or compromise their belief in their fantasy world and live a life without real love for each other. My job in a family program is one that deals with men and women that violate character in powerful demonstrations such as your wife and the OM. I have had this job for over 30 years and the proof is undeniable.






> Started to make plans for birthday and already have holiday with my boys booked, lads golf trips, weekends away, gigs etc lined up. Lots to look forward to!


Melrose, keep up getting closer and closer with your children. There is no way that any OM can come close to matching a good father…The OM can play Santa Clause if he has the money to try and win your children but as they get older they will see plainly that the OM was a co-conspirator in harming innocent children on both sides. The bond between children and a good father cannot be broken!


----------



## Melrose8888

Mr Blunt said:


> To Melrose
> Your cheating ex-wife and her betraying BF/shack up will have FOUR teenagers to bring up in the next 10 years. It is very difficult to have a great relationship when you have to raise teenagers without having all the baggage that your ex-wife and the POSOM have. With the baggage that your ex-wife and the POSOM have it is almost impossible. Those two betrayers will start to experience their own selfishness in the years to come. No matter how they spin it; one truth is that they both chose to damage their children so they could get their selfish desires filled for a short period. They do not have good character; they have violated trust, commitment, loyalty, and honesty in a very powerful way that reveal the level of selfishness they both have. After their first year or two of their honeymoon period, reality will start to set in and they will either split up or compromise their belief in their fantasy world and live a life without real love for each other. My job in a family program is one that deals with men and women that violate character in powerful demonstrations such as your wife and the OM. I have had this job for over 30 years and the proof is undeniable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Melrose, keep up getting closer and closer with your children. There is no way that any OM can come close to matching a good father…The OM can play Santa Clause if he has the money to try and win your children but as they get older they will see plainly that the OM was a co-conspirator in harming innocent children on both sides. The bond between children and a good father cannot be broken!


Thanks for sharing your experiences, @Mr Blunt 

I really do hope it works out differently for them, for the sake of my boys but even I can see how a relationship build on deceit will struggle through the tough times that inevitably come. I think when his kids stop coming to visit over the next couple of years, he'll be left wondering just what he did. Then again, he's a player and will just go back out to play and, I think, my XW will let him. All very sad really but not my circus.

Feel so close to my boys at the moment, helped by having them 21 of the 31 days in January. Hopefully another sign of things to come, as she gives up more and more time with them, whilst she hot foots it around the UK on date nights and weekends away.


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Go Jaguars!! ?


Looked like your team showed up...... mine still sat in the locker room. Still confounded at how my team

shot off at the mouth..... but these are the times today. Maybe they should win one first, then

brag. Noll or Cowher would never have allowed this. But these are different times. 

The Jags..... are capable of smacking their AFC Championship opponent.... right in the mouth.

Their pop is back..... Tom Co.... no coincidence. I still have trouble believing what happened

to the Jags 18 years ago. 14-3.... all three loses to.... Titans. On paper.... Jags should have beaten them.

Course on paper my team..... egh.... best team won though.


----------



## Melrose8888

Today is first wedding anniversary since divorce and would have been our 9th.

I feel nothing bad about the day, no feeling or sadness in fact, it was good to remember back to what a great day it was and an old photo reminder popping up on Facebook made me smile. We seem so young, so happy, so carefree. It may well have all been a front by her but at the time it was fun. Looking forward to feeling like that again soon, minus the marriage 

Bit of a wobble last week, picked up youngest son after week without him and first thing he said was, mummy's boyfriend bought her a new Land Rover. I was sad because it was the first thing he said to me after I had been looking forward to seeing him and he was so excited for a material item. Then I over thought it and got annoyed that everything seems to be going so well for them and they have loads of cash to splash.

Seems so unfair but I guess it's good they aren't asking me for money and kinda funny that posom is repeating his routine with the women (I remember OMW telling me he did the same for her to "lock her in" to the relationship).

Over it now though and looking forward to a night watching the footy at mine with a few mates and a few beers.


----------



## bandit.45

Melrose you have something money cannot buy...something your XWW and her OM will never have: integrity.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Melrose8888 said:


> Today is first wedding anniversary since divorce and would have been our 9th.
> 
> I feel nothing bad about the day, no feeling or sadness in fact, it was good to remember back to what a great day it was and an old photo reminder popping up on Facebook made me smile. We seem so young, so happy, so carefree. It may well have all been a front by her but at the time it was fun. Looking forward to feeling like that again soon, minus the marriage
> 
> Bit of a wobble last week, picked up youngest son after week without him and first thing he said was, mummy's boyfriend bought her a new Land Rover. I was sad because it was the first thing he said to me after I had been looking forward to seeing him and he was so excited for a material item. Then I over thought it and got annoyed that everything seems to be going so well for them and they have loads of cash to splash.
> 
> Seems so unfair but I guess it's good they aren't asking me for money and kinda funny that posom is repeating his routine with the women (I remember OMW telling me he did the same for her to "lock her in" to the relationship).
> 
> Over it now though and looking forward to a night watching the footy at mine with a few mates and a few beers.


For every gift he gives her calculate how much per inch multiplied by how many times she had to surrender her anus to get that gift. Then laugh and be grateful she is out of your life as a women.

You can't buy love or respect. The most expensive, most precious thing we have is our time. Just continue being a great dad on your time. That is what your children will remember and will need so as to become confident and happy adults capable of maintaining loving trustworthy relationships. That is something they will not learn from her and you must step into that void.


----------



## Danny4133

Good day Melrose,

I'm with BiB and Bandit on this one. Especially bandit. I'll chip in on this with my own personal findings.....
Material things don't matter. Yes it's nice to have nice holidays with the kids, take them out bowling etc and I do that perhaps once a month or so..... But I tell you what's more rewarding and I speak here first hand.

It's the time and attention you give to your children. 
They aren't going to remember bowling or that trip to wherever a month or so down the line, as much as Daddy played this game with me or we did baking, had a laugh, sang songs. Watched a DVD and laughed till we cried. Whatever it may be, the activity is the action, the bigger picture is the TIME and EFFORT. Kids know who puts them first, it's the investment in them and your time with them. 

It's easy to vocalise that "you're my world, I love you" and all the horse sheet that both you and I swallowed off the w***** XW's over the years. But kids are more perceptive. 

It's the old cliché that actions speak louder than words. 

Yes, your son 'at this time' may find it interesting that mummy's got a 4x4 and that cuts I know, but it wares off. 
My daughters loved my new car for a while. But they aren't that bothered now. - They ARE bothered that I've taken the time to build them a playlist for the car of their fave songs which demonstrates I listen to them and have done something, albeit little, but still important (for them). 

You see my point - They see I think about them when they aren't with me, I've taken a bit of time and effort for them. I don't need to tell them that I do, I show them I do, and they appreciate it.
Hugs, kisses and listening to them, asking them "how was swimming club" how did that lesson go. My 7YO won't stop yapping at times about how she's doing well and also when she may be struggling slightly.

My daughter is doing a project at school on robots, I went out and brought her a robot making kit for kids and took pics of her building this thing and emailed them to her teacher. She got extra credit and a mention on the accolades book and at assembly and a certificate. Now that's the type of one up man ship I will gladly take part in.... LOL.

How do I know that this approach works ?
The detail in how my children demonstrate their love and affection for me. They always come running to me and walking back to XW on drop off and pick up.
We have cuddles on the sofa at night time and I get hugs and attention from them without the need to ask or start the action. 

My 7 YO tells me "I wish it was Friday again" at the end of our weekend together and a lot more besides.
My children talk to me, their happiness, fears, the full quota, and I go to all the parents evenings, school and nursery events I can to be plugged in to matters. 

Yes your POS EXW will always be their "mother" and you're not competing against her. 
But you are and you will remain the consistent in their lives, in actions and in words. The parent who puts their needs first.

I'm saying this to you because.......... 
Regardless what the other side, POS / POSOM do, it wont matter to you to any great extent in the long run. 
You're of the opinion that things are so great for them? on what basis? Material things.... Jesus, Mary and Joseph I shake my head. It makes no logic does it. What is more plausible is that material items cover cracks. 

Draw your focus away from these people. 

The best barrier, the best shield, the best tonic in all of this is your bond with your boys. When your kids give you some of that sweet stuff there are zero f**** given to anything else. 
Consider it the "lower volume button" on anybody else, because it's what it is !!! Yes, your boys may say things to you at times about them, it may stab you a little, - My response when that happens "I see" then we move on.

I know my kids love me, I know I have different type connection to my girls that POS EW does, better in my opinion, but I would say that. I'd bet my bottom dollar this applies to you as well my friend !
I mean it though I see it, I feel it. I know what they like, what they like to do and I and keep my investment in them. 

That stock is always going to rise, it's a sure fire lifetime investment it will keep on giving a million times more then you put in to it, it has the ability and power to cure all and shut out all the negativity.

You'd never hear an old geezer on his end of days saying " I wish I brought that car, I wish I brought that house" 
You would certainly hear people say "I wish we had more time, and did more things together"

In the end money, job, house, car, holidays what else matters than those that we love and love us.... Nothing


----------



## Melrose8888

Simply amazing post @Danny4133.

Thank you for your ongoing support.

You are the blueprint for how to cope with infidelity !!


----------



## Affaircare

@Melrose8888,

The first Christmas after my exH and I divorced, he took the kids on a ten-day vacation to Disney World. I was a poor, single mother who could pay the bills and feed everyone, but couldn't even come close to something like a trip...much less to Disney! (I couldn't help but giggle a little at the "real life Disney Dad" idea--coincidence? I think not!). The point is that it was the first big holiday after a divorce, I was alone, my ex was taking the kids somewhere cool and expensive, and I felt like an absolutely LOSER. There was no way I could compete with that!

So I was moping and my kids said: "Mom, what's up? Why are ya sad?" and I told them, right out loud how I was thinking and feeling (it turns out I'm a wee bit blunt - lol). Anyway they said something to me that I never forgot: 

_"Do you think we don't know who loves us? You take care of us. You spend time with us. You know our friends and like to have them over. You take us everywhere. This is the only thing Dad does with us, so if he's gonna offer, we'll take it. But YOU love us."_

@Melrose8888, your kids may temporarily be a little impressed with a new car. Hey, it's shiny!  But do you think they don't know who loves them?


----------



## LostAndy

Me too, mine left, called and told me how wonderful he is for thirty minutes. Divorced me for him. They blame shift and make it like you caused them to have an affair. I don't know why people do it, have affairs at all. One shouldn't get married in the first place. Yes, it hurts, but just start dating again and hopefully she wasn't so pretty.


----------



## inging

Hi Melrose!

Nice to hear from you and I am glad it is working out with a new woman. 3 months is time to evaluate and see. It may be time to throw some caution to the wind. 

I know that I was very very cautious with my "new" Girlfriend. It is 3 years since I met her. We all live together in a big ol house like some frankenstien family. 3 teenage girls.. Fun fun fun
Saying that it is many years since I separated. So ignore all that and take your time.

Anyway.. That "new family" 
I love the way they feel compelled to tell us how good it is. How everyone is loving each other and blah blah blah.

It is a message from the resident Happy!
"It is the best family. In fact you have never seen a family like it. Believe me when I say it is the first family to be that happy. It is the most biggly happy. NOT SAD!"


Keep on doing the dad stuff. In the end it is reality that counts.


----------



## Chuck71

LostAndy said:


> Me too, mine left, called and told me how wonderful he is for thirty minutes. Divorced me for him. They blame shift and make it like you caused them to have an affair. I don't know why people do it, have affairs at all. One shouldn't get married in the first place. Yes, it hurts, but just start dating again and hopefully she wasn't so pretty.


Why did you allow her to go on for thirty minutes about a POSOM? Advise them to attend a lecture this spring

University of Reality 
MWF 10:00-10:50
Cheater Logic 101

I-Blameshifting
II-Gaslighting
III-Re-writing of history


----------



## Chuck71

Melrose8888 said:


> Today is first wedding anniversary since divorce and would have been our 9th.
> 
> I feel nothing bad about the day, no feeling or sadness in fact, it was good to remember back to what a great day it was and an old photo reminder popping up on Facebook made me smile. We seem so young, so happy, so carefree. It may well have all been a front by her but at the time it was fun. Looking forward to feeling like that again soon, minus the marriage
> 
> Bit of a wobble last week, picked up youngest son after week without him and first thing he said was, mummy's boyfriend bought her a new Land Rover. I was sad because it was the first thing he said to me after I had been looking forward to seeing him and he was so excited for a material item. Then I over thought it and got annoyed that everything seems to be going so well for them and they have loads of cash to splash.
> 
> Seems so unfair but I guess it's good they aren't asking me for money and kinda funny that posom is repeating his routine with the women (I remember OMW telling me he did the same for her to "lock her in" to the relationship).
> 
> Over it now though and looking forward to a night watching the footy at mine with a few mates and a few beers.


'Oy Rose.... Completely missed this post. You're doing great. Don't think so? Re-read your posts

from March 2017. Best way to gauge progress. Land Rover huh.... whoopie-sheet

Good bet it's leased and her income is covering it. 'Rose88 ain't got one.... why?

Well he is a single dad raising two kids alone because the harlot he was M to decided to run off

to the land of BS, honey, unicorns, flying grasshoppers, milk, and delusional tainted atmosphere. 

Lil story (damn here he goes again LOL) My pop and I didn't get along well, I think you read

enough of my back story to figure that out. Sometimes my parents had "good money" but

sometimes it was tight.... really tight. I know one or both would eat a cheese sammy for lunch

to make sure I had lunch money, every day. We didn't do free / reduced.... they never allowed that.

It was just over 30 years ago.... a very critical time in my life. Everything had been slow paced in my

life until the year prior, then everything went "9-0." Anyhows... pop just up and said -weuns goin fishin-

We went, ran into a hornet's nest the size of a manhole, we were sneaking around it hoping

not to rile them up -Damn we're sneaking so much I feel like I'm trying to sneak back in the house

after drinking with the guys and ya momma not knowing- I still laugh at that to this day.

It was the last time only he and I went fishing, there were plenty other times but others came to.

But I still remember that.... fondly, to this day. THAT'S what it's all about.... not the damn material

items....There's more to the story (yeah I figured that)... everyone has things they believe in.

Some more odd than others..... I still love baseball bu not as I once did. The traditional purity ... 

well that's under attack all the time. I scream every year for a World Series game to be played

during the day.... where a kid can watch it, and adults... not everyone cares to stay up past

midnight or 1AM watching baseball, on a work night. All WS games were day games until, 1971.

Sixteen years later, saw the last WS game played during the day. I'll take additional revenue for $1400 Alex.

The last day game.... Game 6....1987. My fav team won, Minnesota. But I missed the game.

I went fishing with pop.....Glad I missed the game.

THAT is what kids remember......


----------



## Melrose8888

Hello TAMers! MattMatt contacted me a while ago and it feels appropriate to provide an update to you all. I joined TAM on 1st Jan 2017 after having a dreadful New Years Eve and deciding enough was enough, that I’d hit rock bottom and the only way was up.

It’s often said on here but reading back those posts, I don’t recognise the person writing them at all. I acknowledge it was me and I went through that but goodness me, I’ve come a long, long way!

As for now – well, things are pretty great actually! I’d say that over the past 6 months things have really calmed down into a routine for everyone. I still have my two boys, aged 8 and 5 now, 50% of the time, normally one week on, one week off and they are gorgeous young boys. They are both at school and doing so well, I’m very proud of them.

The XW and the OM are still together, living in a rented house in a village not too far from our home and very little drama from them these days. He is still married but apparently close to divorce and it seems everything is OK with them. Long may that continue! I rarely communicate with the ex aside from weekly emails about the boys and any urgent school business. That seems to work well and even when she tries to get a reaction out of me, I simply ignore.

As for me, I have kept to my goals and achieved all the short and medium tasks I set out last year and only a handful of long term goals remain. I got a massive internal promotion into a new role which really takes the pressure off the finances and I love the new challenges it brings. I had a second round of counselling in the summer, including EMDR which processed some deep routed issues. Felt amazing after that! I now meditate daily, practice mindfulness and exercise more, all of which have really helped me move forwards. Still some work to do on trying to remain calm around the boys when they kick off but I’m getting there…

On the dating front, I’ve had four semi-serious relationships since divorce and the current one is, again, good fun which is still what I’m after right now. I can even see the irony that these women I’m dating want more sex that I can handle – careful what you wish for, hey?! 😊 I can see a point in the very near future that I’d entertain something more serious but, to be honest, although I wouldn’t have chosen this path, my lifestyle is pretty amazing. I get a week to concentrate on my boys and then a week to play football, run, watch football, see friends, go to gigs, date and have fun nights out and in. Potentially giving that up would be a difficult thing to do, so will have to see how I feel!

I purposely withdrew from TAM to aid myself in keeping my mind clear but I will return soon to provide support and advice to those who are starting the new year off with challengers of their own. Too many people to mention to say thanks once again for supporting me but @Chuck71, @manfromlamancha, @Danny4133, @bandit.45, @Affaircare, @inging and @MattMatt know what they said/ did got me through the really tough times.

In the meantime, hope 2019 is everything you need it to be!

Melrose


----------



## MattMatt

@Melrose8888 Thanks for the update. So pleased things are going so well for you and your boys.

A lot has happened both not good and good for you during the past two years, but I thank God you found TAM and were able to draw on the deep, sweet well of TAM for advice, comfort and support.


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## manfromlamancha

@Melrose8888

This is great news! I always knew you had the strength to get through this and you have done an amazing job being there and not changing who you basically are for your two boys! 

They will come to really appreciate this later in life.

As for the POSOM I continue to monitor his progress (or lack of) all the time, making it clear to whoever I can that he is not a person of character (and the good news is that many people already know this). I will let you know when major damage is done. Does your wife still work for him and if so, have there been no repercussions or raised eyebrows at work ?

Good to know about the dating front and yes, you need to pace yourself :smile2:

Do come back and help some of the necomers here as your story will stand them in good stead.

Take care of you and yours and I wish you and the boys the very best for the new year!


----------



## inging

Hey. The week on week off can be great but also highlights the loss. So it is good to remember that...

https://youtu.be/w3xcybdis1k

Turn it up loud...

Also
They have Landrovers. They are fun for kids but if you want to "win" and have some fun while you at it. Get the rattiest, Series Landrover you can find and paint it with a roller on the weekends with them . They you can go camping places others can not reach. 

Be a bit careful though or you might end up like this
https://youtu.be/ukTjY9qj0Wo


----------



## Melrose8888

Thanks man...

As for the OM, as long as he sticks to his side of the bargain and treats my kids well, that's all I'm after. Don't want him being successful but, given his history of depression and infidelity, not sure it's in the interests of my boys that he suffers........yet......maybe when they are a bit older, hey? 

He put someone else (his mate) in between himself and my ex as her new manager to avoid any issues and, from the little I know, everyone is delighted they both found love so soon after their 'terrible' divorce situations... I'm sure the clever ones know what really happened, if that institution has any talent, that is!!

All the best for you and your family in 2019 and hope business is booming for you.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Melrose do you have to pay her anything ? Child support ? That is the only reason I would not blow up things at work (if she is earning and not taking money from you) - else if it was made known to the board of that institution, they would both get fired (after an investigation). Him putting his mate in between them wouldn't help that situation and would in fact make the mate seem suspect.

You are definitely a bigger man than I am as I am not sure I would cope this well (and you are coping as well as anyone could). I still do not get the attraction to the POS. You say he has depression - how do you know this? He just seems like a normal, run of the mill piece of crap that looks like Lurch from the Addams family.

You also say that your ex still tries to get a rise out of you - why? Does she still not acknowledge that she did something wrong let alone despicable? Does she blame you in any way? Unbelievable.

Stay close to your boys though and they need to understand at some stage just how bad the POS is.

Take care.


----------



## Melrose8888

No, it was a clean financial break, I bought her part of the house (reduced due to her, at the time, higher earnings than me), so as long as we continue to share the boys 50/50, there would be no financial impact on me per se but she must continue to earn herself to look after the boys. And, in fact, so does he for his kids (private school fees, mortgage on his wife and kids house etc).

In fairness, the ex does pay for a few more of the little things that crop up at school than I do, but imagine that is more mother-guilt than anything else.

Ha! I surprise myself at the moment, although karma hitting at some point does have appeal, no need for me to support that, I think. Pretty sure, in the long run, everyone from my kids to their colleagues will see what really happened.

He gave my ex undivided attention, gifts, affection and a pay-rise. All very powerful for an insecure single child from a broken family (no father figure since she was 5 right up to his death in 2016). I once provided that, when all things were equal but the balance had gone and so had my desire to fulfill that role. Couple that with OM being an expert in seducing co-workers and there we go. All pretty simple really, even if he isn't Brad Pitt 

Little comments on email to try and get a reaction out of me, the lies she makes up when she is too busy to put the boys activities / doctor appointments etc. ahead of her (and his) needs. As for acknowledgment, I got a "sorry for the way we ended" a month after I caught her. That doesn't even qualify as an apology and, last I heard, she still thinks I drove her to "have to go and find someone else". Guess that tells you everything you need to know.

Still, I won't be hanging around waiting for that to change and perhaps it's best it doesn't. Don't want her thinking she made a mistake now, do I?


----------



## Chuck71

Tits up Rose! LOL..... told you I'd steal your line. Thanks for updating your short, medium, 

long range goals. Seems another lifetime you felt like the only one who lost anything. FF and isn't it funny,

you seem to be the one who won so much. Strange how things work out.

WW and OM are content in their delusional world..... better that way. You have your kids 50%!

Don't be shocked if your boys want to be with you more as time passes. Date around, learn, explore....

getting serious should still be a good ways down the road. You were once a Padawan learner....

Now you stand amongst others..... as a Jedi.


----------



## inging

Melrose8888 said:


> the lies she makes up when she is too busy to put the boys activities / doctor appointments etc. ahead of her (and his) needs.


This will not go unnoticed. You just see the tip of the iceberg of selfishness. 

As @Chuck71 says. "Don't be shocked if your boys want to be with you more as time passes."


----------



## Danny4133

Good On Yer Melrose. 

I'm glad to see your star is shining bright and your boys are doing well too. Glad to hear that your job is kicking on also. 

Good things happen to good people, I'm certain of it. I'm glad this hasn't made you bitter and twisted. It could of easly done that to (us both). 

Living a good, honest life putting your Boys needs first will always get the best rewards. Keep in touch as I and many on here are not only impressed and willing you on, but know the good times will keep rolling in for you.

Best Wishes for 2019.


----------



## Chuck71

Danny4133 said:


> Good On Yer Melrose.
> 
> I'm glad to see your star is shining bright and your boys are doing well too. Glad to hear that your job is kicking on also.
> 
> Good things happen to good people, I'm certain of it. I'm glad this hasn't made you bitter and twisted. It could of easly done that to (us both).
> 
> Living a good, honest life putting your Boys needs first will always get the best rewards. Keep in touch as I and many on here are not only impressed and willing you on, but know the good times will keep rolling in for you.
> 
> Best Wishes for 2019.


Waiting for your update Padawan.... or are you still a Padawan?


----------



## Melrose8888

inging said:


> This will not go unnoticed. You just see the tip of the iceberg of selfishness.
> 
> As @Chuck71 says. "Don't be shocked if your boys want to be with you more as time passes."


The boys enjoy their time with their mother. Okay, maybe that is mostly due to them having unlimited things bought for them (Lego, Xbox One, replica toy Land Rovers... :laugh but I see it as a good thing if they enjoy both of us 50%.

Being a numbers man as long as this is true, then we are all doing a good job of this; 50% * 100% + 50% * 100% = 100%


----------



## Chuck71

How art thou going? Is that Brit uh-nuff?


----------



## Buffer

Sounds like exW has no remorse, or morals in relation to her children and EXBS. Surprised her workplace were ok with a boss entering into a relationship with a subordinate, granting a promotion, then condoning the relationship.

Buffer


----------



## MattMatt

Buffer said:


> Sounds like exW has no remorse, or morals in relation to her children and EXBS. Surprised her workplace were ok with a boss entering into a relationship with a subordinate, granting a promotion, then condoning the relationship.
> 
> Buffer


Didn't surprise me, to be honest. Not in the UK. Here, many firms do not care so long as it doesn't interfere with their work.


----------



## Buffer

But the clarity of the promotion by her lover at the beginning of the relationship. Wouldn’t there be bias, case of redress, clarity etc.
Buffer


----------



## Taxman

I have a Karma story that I tell BH. They were in their 50s . Marriage was not stale but complacent. She was put under a senior manager who transferred in. Sweet talking SOB. Married and divorced a few times. You would think people would calm down in their 50s. So they have an office affair. Found out and it destroys 30 years. He took early retirement in order to not be fired, she voluntarily resigned. They had six months. Her AP had a massive stroke. She now spends her days caring for him, feeding, bathing, wiping his backside. She sees her ex on Facebook with a new relationship enjoying his life and can’t help but feel she is serving a sentence. She has been advised to institutionalize him. That should put the final nail in their finances. Sorry gonna sound like a bastard but ya reap what ya sew.


----------



## Chuck71

Taxman said:


> I have a Karma story that I tell BH. They were in their 50s . Marriage was not stale but complacent. She was put under a senior manager who transferred in. Sweet talking SOB. Married and divorced a few times. You would think people would calm down in their 50s. So they have an office affair. Found out and it destroys 30 years. He took early retirement in order to not be fired, she voluntarily resigned. They had six months. Her AP had a massive stroke. She now spends her days caring for him, feeding, bathing, wiping his backside. She sees her ex on Facebook with a new relationship enjoying his life and can’t help but feel she is serving a sentence. She has been advised to institutionalize him. That should put the final nail in their finances. Sorry gonna sound like a bastard but ya reap what ya sew.


You so need to write a few books!

M'Rose...... where's yous at? How are the boys? How's your life going?

Heard from Sid or Danny?


----------



## MattMatt

Buffer said:


> But the clarity of the promotion by her lover at the beginning of the relationship. Wouldn’t there be bias, case of redress, clarity etc.
> Buffer


Probably not, in all honestly. The corporate world in the UK is basically so long as you don't get caught having sex on the desk at work, why would they bother?

If you provide the numbers, they tends to look the other way.


----------



## oldtruck

MattMatt said:


> Probably not, in all honestly. The corporate world in the UK is basically so long as you don't get caught having sex on the desk at work, why would they bother?
> 
> If you provide the numbers, they tends to look the other way.


in corporate America if it can be shown that a person in authority had an affair
with a subordinate and even if that person in authority did not have a quid pro quo
agreement with the subordinate and sex was not given in exchange for an special
treatment.

if that subordinate during the affair got promotions, better work schedule, raises,
it would not matter how much money that authority figure brought in he would be fired.

because the lawsuit payout that the corporation would have to pay would be greater
than all the profits that the authority figure had brought in.

also other people would be looking what went down to claim future discrimination lawsuits
claiming that the AF Person did not give the raise, promotion, whatever, because they refused
to have sex with them.

so to prevent future lawsuits the APF would be terminated because he had polluted the work
place environment.

Even the CEO of Fox News TV, finally got himself fired for using his employee list as his own 
personal dating app.


----------



## MattMatt

oldtruck said:


> in corporate America if it can be shown that a person in authority had an affair
> with a subordinate and even if that person in authority did not have a quid pro quo
> agreement with the subordinate and sex was not given in exchange for an special
> treatment.
> 
> if that subordinate during the affair got promotions, better work schedule, raises,
> it would not matter how much money that authority figure brought in he would be fired.
> 
> because the lawsuit payout that the corporation would have to pay would be greater
> than all the profits that the authority figure had brought in.
> 
> also other people would be looking what went down to claim future discrimination lawsuits
> claiming that the AF Person did not give the raise, promotion, whatever, because they refused
> to have sex with them.
> 
> so to prevent future lawsuits the APF would be terminated because he had polluted the work
> place environment.
> 
> Even the CEO of Fox News TV, finally got himself fired for using his employee list as his own
> personal dating app.


Oh, it can happen in Britain. But often times they look the other way.


----------



## Taxman

Corporate culture is dependent on the legal landscape of resident country. In the US the concept of punitive damages, coupled with a culture of avoiding negative press results in a great majority of companies advising that fraternization is strictly verboten. Britain functions rather differently. Accusations and slander are taken much more seriously by the British courts, ergo pointing the finger can bring civil liability.


----------



## Arkansas

I'm very late on this but let me say this

"once a cheater always a cheater" is exactly right and its because the person who cheated simply does't have love for the person they're cheating on

if they did? they'd not do it



the core problem isn't the cheating - its that they don't love the person they're cheating on


----------



## cp3o

Arkansas said:


> ................the core problem isn't the cheating - its that they don't love the person they're cheating on


I'm tempted to go further - my experience suggests that cheating is a (and only a) consequence of the cheat not only not loving the betrayed - but of not loving themself. I don't mean narcisistically - just being content with who they think they are.

My twopennorth.


----------



## colingrant

Taxman said:


> I have a Karma story that I tell BH. They were in their 50s . Marriage was not stale but complacent. She was put under a senior manager who transferred in. Sweet talking SOB. Married and divorced a few times. You would think people would calm down in their 50s. So they have an office affair. Found out and it destroys 30 years. He took early retirement in order to not be fired, she voluntarily resigned. They had six months. Her AP had a massive stroke. She now spends her days caring for him, feeding, bathing, wiping his backside. She sees her ex on Facebook with a new relationship enjoying his life and can’t help but feel she is serving a sentence. She has been advised to institutionalize him. That should put the final nail in their finances. Sorry gonna sound like a bastard but ya reap what ya sew.


Taxman. It NEVER gets old reading your stories. You should start a Karma Blog, to help BS see from reading that with counsel, conviction, and strength, they can win in the long run, regardless how dire their situation seems. I love reading stories of triumph after infidelity, or stories where the WS has what's coming to them. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## a_new_me

MattMatt said:


> Probably not, in all honestly. The corporate world in the UK is basically so long as you don't get caught having sex on the desk at work, why would they bother?
> 
> 
> 
> If you provide the numbers, they tends to look the other way.




Would a P...something. My French is terrible. Peugot? Reebok before Adidas...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Taxman

My wife and I took up yoga a few years back. I use it before working out to stretch out my lower back (child pose works!) The concepts of hindu spirituality started finding their way into my reading. Karma is one concept that appeals to me immensely. I was always of the belief that if you treated someone poorly, it would come back on you. To illustrate, a brief HS story: Kid in my class, knew him from grade 3 onward. TBH, this kid was for all intents and purposes, sociopathic. Loved to set people on one another. Tried to get me and a good bud to throw some punches, we popped him one, and reported him. He was plainly bad news. Well, there was a family business that he was virtually guaranteed a job for life. Dad passed, and his brothers took over the business. Turned out Dad did not have a will, and mom didn't care. The business was sold, brothers aced him out. He was a minor, and had no say, this was in the 60's and a guardian ad litem was not fashionable at the time. His share was given to mom, along with hers, she squandered both. Messed him up, and he never finished high school. I regularly hang with my buds from high school, and his name came up. Nobody talks to him, and at last report he was picking up small handyman jobs in a small town north of here. Karma.


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## Melrose8888

A splendidly good day to you all (English enough for ya, Chuck?!)

Lovely to hear from the old gang! Also interesting to re-read a few pages - how things change...!

Things are really good, thanks. Boys have found their rhythm, doing well at school and I feel closer than ever to them. 

I meditate daily, try to get to yoga as often as I can, back running (kids are now doing 5k Parkruns with me - my 6 year old is at county level already!), read more books that I can handle and just feel in a really good place, completely happy with myself.

Some uncertainty at work but all of the above makes me take it in my stride. I see any potential change there as an opportunity.

Dated 5 women for around 6 months each - without making it sound transnational, they all served a great purpose and we both got a lot out of the relationship in each instance but that was enough. Was tempted to take some time out on my own but ended up meeting a gorgeous women back in September who has enhanced my life and someone who I feel completely connected to, yet know we both have so much to learn from each other. A wonderful feeling.

Long term aim for ya, Chuck - to retire by the time I'm 55. Semi got a plan to pay debts off, sell the house and travel the world.

Ex and POSOM are still together, renting in a nearby village - quite pleased with the stability there tbh. She gets on with her half of the deal 90% of the time. The little attempts at a rise aren't successful and I feel no need to get involved in any drama. I'm much calmer and compassionate these days, even with her, but our communication is limited to weekly emails and the occasional sporting event / parent's evening. Good for my boys to see that I can get on with her.

Not heard from Sid (I did PM him but with no response), imagine Danny is going from strength to strength.

Cheaters not loving people? Not loving themselves? Perhaps. Ultimately, whatever their reasoning, I believe they are just, deep down, selfish, entitled people. How they got there, well, they will probably never have the interest in personal growth that would allow them to find out.

Hoping all is well in each of your lives and karma is in full force around the globe!

Don't be a stranger.
Melrose


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## Chuck71

You listened........reacted..........learned. And became a Jedi. Welcome!

As for them still together...... feces begot feces. Where YOU are at is the only important thing.

Kuddo's on your boys. Date around.... when you see something special, sit a spell.

Remember a LTR is 50% her terms but 50% yours as well. Don't be a stranger..... feel free to drop

a handful of 2x4s on the newbys.

At least once a year......for awhile, re-read your entire thread. Measure how far you have grown.

Note your Jaguars will be playing a couple NFL games on your soil next year....


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## Chuck71

HEY....................Melrose! How's things across the Ocean? Heard from Danny or Sid?


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