# Am I really a Selfish Jerk?



## Bigrascal (Aug 12, 2011)

My W and I have been having some problems lately, talking about separation. She feels that I think about myself primarily and don't take on responsibility for her. I am a "me" and not an "us." I have done some things in the relationship that have validated that, but I'm also not as bad as she thinks.

Last night we go out for an early dinner. When we get back, we decide that I will go get groceries and that she will work on stripping our porch of paint. She specifically says that the porch is a one person job (she has a construction background and I defer to her on some of these projects).

She begins her project and I go get groceries. I come back about 30 minutes later, put the groceries away and go check on her. Compliment her on her progress and go back in the house. I go online and then start answering some emails and looking at some work material. This takes about 30 minutes.

She comes in and says "what are you doing" in a nice but slightly annoyed tone. I say some work. Her: "I thought you were caught up." Me: "yes but these just came in" Her " and you have to do them now at 8pm?" (this was apparently my opportunity to have apologized and diffused the entire argument - she says).

This devolves into an argument where I am told I should have offered to help her. I become "defensive" by telling her I had work to do and I thought it was a one person job and that she could have asked for help. I have no intention of apologizing while we are talking about it b/c I feel like I am being unfairly criticized. She says that she should be more important than my work and that I should take the initiative to help her. 

I apologized 30 minutes later once I had cooled off. Her response is "NO." We briefly discuss later and she tells me she will not live with this anymore and that she will not put up with it. She tells me to just listen and then tells me how selfish I am and that I didn't even help her put her stuff away.

I have a pissed wife. I think this is petty and being blown out of proportion. She would say that she has let stuff like this slide too much in the past and that she won't put up with it any more. We are going to our second MC session this week.

I agree that I should have asked if she needed help. 

Am I living in reality here or is what I did really that bad? I guess If my wife thinks it's that bad it really doesn't matter what I think. I need to change my behavior and be more thoughtful.

Any thoughts or comments? I really would like to be more thoughtful and sensitive to her needs, but for some reason have a hard time doing it to the level she wants.


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## HappyWife40 (Aug 23, 2011)

I don't want to offend, but she sounds like a brat.

Check out Married Man Sex Life - BlogTopSites.com He has a great blog on "manning up" and "married game."

If you allow your wife to act like a brat and treat you badly, she will. Just my two cents.

I have more I could say, but I tend to get to "preachy" and I'm trying not to be.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

she testing you in my opinion.

stick to your guns she said its a one person job. and that you should go shopping. 

and then after you go shopping she wants help.


what you should have done is say no you go shopping and I'll strip the porch. and when you get back you can strip for me you sexy lady!!! wink wink.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sorry you and the W are going through this.
It sure sounds like she has some resentment built up in this relationship, for whatever reason. Hopefully MC will help you two communicate better, but I can tell you from experience that the "I'm not going to apologize because I'm right" attitude will not work. Whether this one situation is that important doesn't really matter. If she feels there is no "us" in your relationship, then you taking care of your work while she was taking care of the home you two share ....... well you see where I'm going. There wasn't an "us" for her.
Good luck


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## North (Aug 30, 2011)

Is this really about you not offering to help, or is it because you were checking your work emails at 8pm? 
Speaking as wife to someone who appears unable to switch off from work, I can tell you it really riles me when he disappears to check email or similar when it is meant to be down time. 
Just wanted to add a further perspective...

PS I don't think you're a jerk


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## HappyWife40 (Aug 23, 2011)

I noticed on one of your other threads that you are already reading Athol's blog. Sorry for giving advice on something you were already doing. 

By the way, my answer to your original question "Am I a selfish jerk?" is a resounding "No!"


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## Bigrascal (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks guys. I appreciate your perspectives and comments. Perhaps this is just some crazy making behavior where she sets me up for failure. I don't know.

She sent a me a text this morning saying that b/c I got up late and took a shower first that I made her late b/c she needed to wash her hair. It wasn't a pleasant text. I apologized via return text for that and for last night. 

There's lots of resentment built up between us so I think we fail to see things rationally sometimes.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Bigrascal said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your perspectives and comments. Perhaps this is just some crazy making behavior where she sets me up for failure. I don't know.
> 
> She sent a me a text this morning saying that b/c I got up late and took a shower first that I made her late b/c she needed to wash her hair. It wasn't a pleasant text. I apologized via return text for that and for last night.
> 
> There's lots of resentment built up between us so I think we fail to see things rationally sometimes.


did she tell you she needed to wash her hair so you could take your showrer eariler?

shes got you right where she wants you! apoligising for her inability to comunicate in a respectfull manner thinking you should be able to read her mind and when you can't acts pissed off.

I say call her on it and stick to what you know is right


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## HappyWife40 (Aug 23, 2011)

Bigrascal said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your perspectives and comments. Perhaps this is just some crazy making behavior where she sets me up for failure. I don't know.
> 
> She sent a me a text this morning saying that b/c I got up late and took a shower first that I made her late b/c she needed to wash her hair. It wasn't a pleasant text. I apologized via return text for that and for last night.
> 
> There's lots of resentment built up between us so I think we fail to see things rationally sometimes.


She seriously needs to learn that you are not a mind reader. I would not apologize for that.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

just my two cents...

no you are not a jerk... and you shouldn't be a mind reader either. This is such a common scenerio... she's busting her a$$ in hard labour and you're goofin' around on the computer... of course all on misconceptions and misunderstandings...

as I have BTDT... here is my perspective... 

the underlining issue she is feeling is that she would like you to take initiative and be thoughtful. For example...

when you get home from fetching groceries and still see her working hard on the deck... again offer her your help, or ask if there is anything else that needs to be done around the house to help out. 

or... even better yet... look around the house yourself and take initiative... is there a baskeet of laundry to be folded? dishes to be washed? a toilet to be scrubbed? something else to do for the general smooth running of your ship?? If you are unsure of a specific task and to the standards of which is expected, then either ask her... or complete the task far beyond any expectation. ie.. the toilet is so clean it is gleaming white! No one, man or woman, could argue.

In essence, she doesn't think she really needs to tell you, like a child, to help out... you're a grown up, you should really be able to think of this yourself. Hence the mind-reading problem...

If by 8pm.. you are tired, and wish to gear down for the day... its time to bring her along with you.. go out to the porch where she is working... comment on how much she has done and that the project is going well.. gently tell her she's worked hard..explain that you've had a long difficult day, its getting late and that you are going to switch gears for the day.. and suggest that she do the same... invite her to wrap it up...

once she sees the toilet, the empty laundry basket, and there are no dishes in the sink... she will thank you greatly!!

its a division of labour issue, and when major household projects come along that involve intense work, and in this case, a role reversal, which is perfectly ok, however as the old saying goes, " many hands make light work" .. and in this case... I'm sure while she's working on the deck her mind is full of chores that need to be done inside... you do some of them.. she'll definately notice.. it will blow her mind... and she will express her gratitude!! 

unfortunately, this has not been my case with my H, even though I have explained it to him as I have above, but it has resounded with my sons. Their thoughtfulness for the care of the household, understanding that we all exist within this home, and each need to do their part... well.. lets say my mind is blown on a daily basis... and they are thanked for their care of our ship.... and there are calm seas!


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't think the porch is a one person job.  Are you sure she said that, because I'm very confused.

I have done a lot of home improvement stuff and only got resentful if i thought my ex H wasn't helping or doing his share. 

if he was at work all day and i worked around the house all day and did home improvement stuff then i felt no resentment. 

If however we were both at home and I did a lot more then him and he didn't step up and do his share without acting like a child who needed me to tell him what to do, then yes i would be resentful.


You don't have to be a mind reader, just be an adult and see what needs to be done and think about what is fair.


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## Kricket (May 10, 2011)

WhiteRabbit said:


> I feel like these little petty issues are being blown out of proportion bc there are bigger issues that never got resolved...
> 
> only reason i say that is because i would pick at H for 'little' things just bc my patience was worn so thin and everything annoyed me. none of our huge issues got fixed so everything small just piled on top of those big issues making the mountain even bigger.
> 
> usually snapping over dumb stuff is a clue to larger problems just under the surface.


:iagree:


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Syrum said:


> I don't think the porch is a one person job.  Are you sure she said that, because I'm very confused.


I was thinking that too... She is setting up a no-win scenario for you... you either have to disagree with her judgement on it being a one person job, thereby starting an argument... volunteering help once you got home, implying she is incapable of a one person job, thereby starting an argument... or taking her at her word and leaving it to her, thereby starting an argument.

There may be a deeper reason for all this stuff, but basically it sounds like she was just setting you up to fail. Her communication is awful.

Then again, you chose what probably looks to her like the laziest option out of the three, so she's going to feel pretty justified in going after you. The cycle will probably continue until the communication improves.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The deeper reason is that these interaction dynamics become utterly and absolutely entrenched.

You are currently caught up in the 'Dancing on Eggshells' dynamic.
Take a step back and think about how utterly insignificant and downright insane many of her challenges are ... but she throws the bait and you keep taking it. You engage. You fight. You feel bad. You apologize. And following this strategy is going to kill what remains of your marriage.

She is LOOKING for reasons to fight with you, for the sole purpose of validating her reasoning to leave you. And the more you fight ... the more you validate.

We already know she feels insecure and for whatever reason, undervalued ... this is obvious given her need to consistently take swipes at, and undervalue YOUR decision making abilities.

Stop apologizing. Particularly over sh!t like this. Make your apologies count for something worthy of an apology TO YOU. If you feel like you seriously screwed up, own it and apologize. If you are apologizing for your failure to successfully tap dance over eggshells, you are hurting yourself more.

She believes you are selfish jerk. Therefore she purposely sets up scenarios to reinforce her belief that you are a selfish jerk. You fail her sh!t test, and apologize ... in essence acknowledging that you are in fact a selfish jerk.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

RoseRed said:


> when you get home from fetching groceries and still see her working hard on the deck... again offer her your help, or ask if there is anything else that needs to be done around the house to help out.
> 
> or... even better yet... look around the house yourself and take initiative... is there a baskeet of laundry to be folded? dishes to be washed? a toilet to be scrubbed? something else to do for the general smooth running of your ship?? If you are unsure of a specific task and to the standards of which is expected, then either ask her... or complete the task far beyond any expectation. ie.. the toilet is so clean it is gleaming white! No one, man or woman, could argue.
> 
> ...


I like this advice! Honestly, I probably would've just about acted the same way as the Wife in the OP's situation... I just get really mad if I'm working on something for the house and he's sitting on his ass surfing his phone or the TV. And I can almost see this scenario at my house except ours is about laundry! He's cleaning the kitchen or something productive and I'm folding clothes, he finishes cleaning the kitchen and instead of asking me if I could use help, he plops down on the couch... I say BS and I've called him on it before.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Pluto2 said:


> Sorry you and the W are going through this.
> It sure sounds like she has some resentment built up in this relationship, for whatever reason. Hopefully MC will help you two communicate better, but I can tell you from experience that the "I'm not going to apologize because I'm right" attitude will not work. Whether this one situation is that important doesn't really matter. If she feels there is no "us" in your relationship, then you taking care of your work while she was taking care of the home you two share ....... well you see where I'm going. There wasn't an "us" for her.
> Good luck


I was going to say the same thing.

It wasn't the porch - it was the accumulation of porch 'moments'. Be honest with yourself. Do you really put her first, or just when it's convenient? 

Here's a great way to figure it out. Go to marriagebuilders.com and find and print out the Love Buster questionnaire (avoid their toxic forums). Both of you fill it out, and then give yours to her and vice versa. It will tell you HOW you make her unhappy, all your 'porch moments.' And you have the opportunity to tell HER but bugs YOU.

Once you both know these things, you should be making a conscientious effort to STOP doing the things in that questionnaire. You can't stay in love if you keep LBing each other.


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## Bigrascal (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks guys.

It is the accumulation of porch like moments. I am being baited into situations where I can act like a selfish jerk and I am getting sucked into them. I need to stop. 

Defensiveness is a problem that I have and I need to address it ASAP.

The eggshell example is spot on. I have to break this cycle ASAP.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

Bigrascal said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your perspectives and comments. Perhaps this is just some crazy making behavior where she sets me up for failure. I don't know.
> 
> She sent a me a text this morning saying that b/c I got up late and took a shower first that I made her late b/c she needed to wash her hair. It wasn't a pleasant text. I apologized via return text for that and for last night.
> 
> There's lots of resentment built up between us so I think we fail to see things rationally sometimes.


Firstly, she's still mad about the porch...so anything small and trivial will be amplified...

Secondly, you do know each others morning routines and schedule, you know approximately how much time each of you need to take sharing a bathroom...
scenerio... you sleep in... you either 1) shower demon fast, and get finished in nanoseconds in consideration of her routine 2) if you have another bathroom, shower there, or 3) wait until she's finished her routine and then you have access... 

Isn't this common sense?? A common courtesy?

I would definately not want to inconvience or hamper anyone elses morning routine because of my goof up of waking up late... of course you don't maliciously sleep in just to mess up her routine... it was an innocent mistake...

I would hate to make my spouse late for work because of my sleeping in...

I don't think I'm off base... and this isn't rocket science...


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Bigrascal said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> It is the accumulation of porch like moments. I am being baited into situations where I can act like a selfish jerk and I am getting sucked into them. I need to stop.
> 
> ...


When under attack we do tend to defend! But you may be a bit weak and immature with your ego defence mechanisms. Take a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/28845-defence-mechanisms-manning-up.html and focus on the Mature Defence Mechanisms. #13, with humour is really good but so are the others as well.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Deejo said:


> The deeper reason is that these interaction dynamics become utterly and absolutely entrenched.
> 
> You are currently caught up in the 'Dancing on Eggshells' dynamic.
> Take a step back and think about how utterly insignificant and downright insane many of her challenges are ... but she throws the bait and you keep taking it. You engage. You fight. You feel bad. You apologize. And following this strategy is going to kill what remains of your marriage.
> ...


Maybe it’s that some of the men just don’t take the initiative, that it’s their wives doing that and it’s where their wife’s frustration and fitness testing comes from. It’s like being either proactive or reactive. The more proactive a person is the less they have to react. If a person is being proactive the less they have a need to “defend” and the more they are leading and taking the initiative.


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## Bigrascal (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks Rose Red. I agree that everything is amplifed b/c she is already made. I hate to make my spouse late too. Unfortunately I don't know her hair washing schedule. Perhaps I should ask!

Thanks AFEH. I'll check out the link.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

afeh said:


> maybe it’s that some of the men just don’t take the initiative, that it’s their wives doing that and it’s where their wife’s frustration and fitness testing comes from. It’s like being either proactive or reactive. The more proactive a person is the less they have to react. If a person is being proactive the less they have a need to “defend” and the more they are leading and taking the initiative.


 most definitely!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Bigrascal said:


> Thanks Rose Red. I agree that everything is amplifed b/c she is already made. I hate to make my spouse late too. Unfortunately I don't know her hair washing schedule. Perhaps I should ask!


More appropriately, you should OBSERVE!

I know my husband's bathroom routine because I make it my business to know it. Just as I do in other aspects of his life, I make it my business to find ways to (1) know what it takes to make his life tick, (2) look for ways to make it more enjoyable, and (3) pay attention enough that I know when he's suffering in some way so I can step in and do what a partner is supposed to do - show love and caring and concern.

If you don't even know your wife's bathroom routine, maybe you should spend a little more time observing her, rather than just cohabitating with her. 

Maybe THAT is why she's getting tired of being married to you.


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## RoseRed (Aug 27, 2011)

turnera said:


> More appropriately, you should OBSERVE!
> 
> I know my husband's bathroom routine because I make it my business to know it. Just as I do in other aspects of his life, I make it my business to find ways to (1) know what it takes to make his life tick, (2) look for ways to make it more enjoyable, and (3) pay attention enough that I know when he's suffering in some way so I can step in and do what a partner is supposed to do - show love and caring and concern.
> 
> ...


EXACTLY!!!!

Couldn't have said that any better....
All it takes is watching and observing... it doesn't take much either.... just watch... and LISTEN!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

WhiteRabbit said:


> I feel like these little petty issues are being blown out of proportion bc there are bigger issues that never got resolved...


:iagree:

There's more to this than the porch and hair-washing routines, and some things are leaping out as blazingly obvious.

1) Stop apologizing for these scenarios. You need to push back and stop cowering to her every complaint. It makes you look weak and that probably just further frustrates her. If you accept you're in the wrong with one of her complaints, you can actually show strength while still showing her you see her point.

2) LISTEN. Really LISTEN to her. Observe her. Get out of your own mind-set of "Am I really a selfish jerk?" and start thinking "What is it that SHE really needs?" Open your eyes, ears and start paying more attention. 

She felt let down by you that you decided to spend time on work emails instead of helping her work on the porch or at the very least, hang out with her on the porch. She doesn't feel like you think of her. Then the hair-washing scenario: Guess what? She doesn't feel like you think of her there either. Do you think of her? Do you show her in ways that let her know you consider her? 

The men might disagree with me here but this is how I'd see an alternative of this playing out:

She comes in and says "what are you doing" in a nice but slightly annoyed tone. [pause - why is her tone slightly annoyed? To speculate: she's probably been working on the porch and wondering where you'd disappeared to for those 30mins and started to feel resentful for other times you haven't been around for her] I say some work. Her: "I thought you were caught up." Me: "yes but these just came in" Her " and you have to do them now at 8pm?" Response: _Good point. I'd rather be with you, let me shut this off._ Then follow her back out to the porch.

This devolves into an argument where I am told I should have offered to help her. I become "defensive" by telling her I had work to do and I thought it was a one person job and that she could have asked for help. I have no intention of apologizing while we are talking about it b/c I feel like I am being unfairly criticized. *She says that she should be more important than my work and that I should take the initiative to help her. * Bingo. Start LISTENING more - to words, tone, body language but do not apologize later just because you feel you should. Instead, try to become more accutely aware of what is happening in the first place. What is it she REALLY needs? This also doesn't mean you need to be attached to her hip at every moment in case she wants you around but she's TELLING you that she needs you to help her more. She wants to be considered by you.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Bigrascal said:


> Any thoughts or comments? I really would like to be more thoughtful and sensitive to her needs, but for some reason have a hard time doing it to the level she wants.


I just also wanted to commend you for questioning and wondering how to make your marriage work. It's not easy and I do wish you the best.


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## Parrothead (Jul 4, 2011)

Bigrascal said:


> My W and I have been having some problems lately, talking about separation. She feels that I think about myself primarily and don't take on responsibility for her. I am a "me" and not an "us." I have done some things in the relationship that have validated that, but I'm also not as bad as she thinks.
> 
> Last night we go out for an early dinner. When we get back, we decide that I will go get groceries and that she will work on stripping our porch of paint. She specifically says that the porch is a one person job (she has a construction background and I defer to her on some of these projects).
> 
> ...


Some female translations for you:

"Oh, you don't have to get me anything" means "You had better get me something or else".

"It's okay, go with your friends" means "don't move a muscle".

"This is a one person job" means "get off your arse and help".

See?


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

My read is that your wife appears to feel that you aren't giving her the time and attention she wants. If you want her to get off your back, you need to do your part to give her what she needs. When you can do a better job of being attentive, helpful, etc. she will give you more of what you probably want - less hassle from her, more sex, more respect and happy times.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I would just like to add that neither you or your wife should expect the other to be "mind readers". Tell her that you want to do a better job of meeting her needs and ask her specifically what you can do to make her happier. Take notes and do not comment on what she says, except to ask for clarification. Then DO what she asks. Giving a little bit can get you a lot. Your MC can help you with this, too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Laurae1967 said:


> I would just like to add that neither you or your wife should expect the other to be "mind readers". Tell her that you want to do a better job of meeting her needs and ask her specifically what you can do to make her happier. Take notes and do not comment on what she says, except to ask for clarification. Then DO what she asks. Giving a little bit can get you a lot. Your MC can help you with this, too.


 This is why the Love Buster questionnaire can be so valuable. It truly does 'speak for you.'


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## oneonone (Sep 1, 2011)

I am new to the site and learning how to comment etc...but I want to say I agree with the comment that was posted that said it is prolly a bout bigger issues. I am the same...I ***** and moan about the little, petty stuff, b/c I don't feel I am heard about the big stuff. SO true on finding the bigger issue!!! I agree 100%.


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## oneonone (Sep 1, 2011)

white rabbit's post was the one I wanted to go back and agree with...I have been like that so many times.


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## oneonone (Sep 1, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> :iagree:
> 
> There's more to this than the porch and hair-washing routines, and some things are leaping out as blazingly obvious.
> 
> ...


:iagree: I think this is totally right on!


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