# Sexless, affectionless marriage. Just want out?



## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Is it ever OK to walk away without trying MC?

18 year marriage, no kids, sexless the last 3 years, very irregular for many years. Classic “bait and switch” - tons of sex while dating, once married, no more oral on her part (always on my part, leading to one or more earth-shaking orgasms for her), frequency never has been weekly and typically went months. I honestly question if we’ve had more sex in 18 years of marriage than in a year plus of dating.

We spend quality time together daily. I have had many discussions with her. Asked her to talk to her doctor/get her testosterone levels checked. She “forgot” multiple times, finally was tested (Doc initially gave her someone else’s "normal" test results, oops!), then eventually diagnosed with low testosterone. Prescribed steroid cream, which she filled the prescription but refused to use with “I don’t know how to use this”.

Had many long talks with her. Started reading this site, bought NMMG, MMSL. I definitely was too “beta”/submissive (I pretty much took care of everything: finances, cars, yard/lawn, cleaning, cooking, grocery shopping, laundry, etc.). Also purchased/read 5 Love Languages, His Needs, Her Needs.

Started to run the MAP - which has led her to become way more suspicious/accusatory at times, but has not led to any increase or desire. I mean, it’s not just sex - I can’t even remember the last time I was kissed. It’s been years. A hug? 6+ months or better.

After reading it I gave her the Five Love Languages book back in March (I am touch and acts of service, suspect she is quality time). Recently brought it up again, and asked her if she’d ever looked at it. “I’m not much of a reader”. Didn’t even know where she’d put the book. Huge red flag.

We should probably have gone to counseling years ago. I know she has self-esteem issues (but she blows up if I mention those two words - zero to pissed in 2 seconds), also likely depression (she had cardiac surgery back in ’99, has been on Effexor XR 75 mg for years. She lost a job in Dec 2009 and it took her 13 months to begin looking/didn’t get a full-time job until June 2012/caused us a ton of financial stress). She was also seriously affected by the suicide of her cousin - who was like a brother to her, both were of a similar age and only children. He was a great guy/I got along with him as well, and miss him terribly.

Me? I am not without flaws. I have never cheated, but in the last year I have developed close friendships with females. Nothing sexual, but a lot of texting/chatter that I have really scaled back on after I realized what I was doing was wrong. I mean, most of them I would not have an interest in if we were both single, but one or two of them... I am obese and not physically attractive (balding glasses-wearing geek type), but I know that I am intelligent and have a huge heart. I consider myself a “good guy” (without the negative connotations of “nice guy” as I am trying to avoid those behaviors).

Anyway, I have reached that point again where I cannot sleep at night. It’s affecting my job performance. She actually brought up MC the last time we talked, but right now I am so full of bitterness/anger from chronic rejection… I just want out. If finances weren’t an issue, I would likely be gone tomorrow (make a decent salary/no kids other than 14 1/2 yr old dogs). Laying here late at night, in a king-size bed as physically far away as I can be from my spouse (she’s fine with it/makes no effort to touch me/sleep near me). Never knew one could feel so lonely/alone laying next to someone.

Am I a bad person for not even wanting to try MC? Have I simply let this go on too long? Am I a horrible person if I just decide it’s done and walk away? I keep thinking of those marriage vows. My wife may be sick (depressed, she’s also an insulin-dependent diabetic who does not take care of herself, i.e. never checks her blood sugar, doesn’t eat right. She is obese as well).

I am just sick and tired of the status quo. I am so filled with anger/bitterness/resentment, sometimes I can be such a sarcastic ******* to her (although I really try not to - I don’t like the person I am becoming). I keep feeling that I am missing out. I have an older brother with severe prostate cancer (would be dead by now if he wasn’t on experimental drug therapies). He is impotent. I get tested regularly but I have a fear that, in a cruel joke, I will leave, find someone, and suddenly the low-mileage equipment will break down.

I just hate to give up and admit defeat. I would have never thought that I would be in the position where I would be walking away from my marriage. I feel like I’ve stayed and tried to make things work, have clearly communicated my feelings/desires, and there’s been no effort from the other side. I just have feelings of guilt about walking away (no, I’m not Catholic ;-)

I guess I just needed to vent… I have started to come up with various exit scenarios (where I’d live/started looking at CL for roommates), when I’d leave (after the first of the year), how I’d afford it (liquidate 401k post 01/01 to pay off HELOC/car debt). It’s tough to actually go through with them, but I feel pretty determined at this point.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

I've made the decision to go. One long conversation this past weekend didn't give me any hope. Problems are all my fault... 19 1/2 years of my life spent with this person. Should have done this sooner. Now to figure out how to do this... I know she will be devastated.

Despite my bitterness over things, I really do not wish bad things for her. I'll probably always care about how she is doing... but just not as her spouse any more.


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## DesertRat1978

Your story and mine share some similarities. Your marriage has a longer life span but there are some common threads. My story is all over the Sex in Marriage thread. The wife and I have been passionless for 2.8 years or so. With a child on the way, I fear that it is only going to get worse. 

About MC, if you have already checked out of the marriage MC may be a waste of time and money. It sounds like you would both be happier if you moved on.


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## Married but Happy

Sometimes, it's just over, and you know MC will only delay the inevitable. If that's your situation, why waste time? The only thing it may do is give your wife some time to adjust to the idea of you leaving. On the other hand, she shouldn't be too surprised under the circumstances.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Maybe there would have been hope if we'd gone sooner. I've decided that I am, indeed, checked out. I honestly think my wife would not respond well to MC as (IMHO of course), her version of reality needs the most adjustment, and I don't think that would lend her to want to continue.


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## WorkingOnMe

You've put your own happiness on the back burner for far too long. No kids? Time to move on friend. No guilt warranted. It's the right decision.


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## cdbaker

I get the notion that the odds of successful MC are low, and that you feel checked out and such. With that said, I can't imagine many scenarios where a couple shouldn't AT LEAST give MC a try for few sessions, like once a week for a month. Especially given how long you have both been together, I struggle to see why another 30 days of solid effort would be a big deal. If it fails, and I understand it's likely that it will fail, then you can both walk away and not wonder "what if." Plus, if she wants MC but you think that she won't be able to actually handle it, then why not let her find out and avoid her blaming you for the divorce for the rest of your lives over not having given MC a chance?


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## WorkingOnMe

If you did give MC a try, I would make daily sex a condition for attending. After all, why should you bother if all she's trying to do with MC is getting you to accept a crappy marriage. 

But to be clear, my advise is still to dump her and not go anywhere near MC.


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## cdbaker

WorkingOnMe said:


> If you did give MC a try, I would make daily sex a condition for attending. After all, why should you bother if all she's trying to do with MC is getting you to accept a crappy marriage.
> 
> But to be clear, my advise is still to dump her and not go anywhere near MC.


Terrible, Terrible advice. They need to get together in MC to try to figure out why there is a sexual issue to begin with. Past sexual trauma? OP utterly disgusting and out of shape? Performance anxiety? Trust issues? Etc.

Either something legitimate is driving the libido problem, or your wife is just an evil ***** who intentionally prefers to starve you of affection. I'm betting that the latter is not the case here, so trying to force her into having sex with you repeatedly on threat of immediate divorce sounds like one of the least loving acts you could attempt here, and would only speed up the divorce process and make it more painful all around.


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## WorkingOnMe

Cdbaker please post a link to your thread so th op can see the result of allowing his wife to take with no expectations. He needs to see the results of your great advise.


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## caladan

cdbaker said:


> Terrible, Terrible advice. They need to get together in MC to try to figure out why there is a sexual issue to begin with. Past sexual trauma? OP utterly disgusting and out of shape? Performance anxiety? Trust issues? Etc.
> 
> Either something legitimate is driving the libido problem, or your wife is just an evil ***** who intentionally prefers to starve you of affection. I'm betting that the latter is not the case here, so trying to force her into having sex with you repeatedly on threat of immediate divorce sounds like one of the least loving acts you could attempt here, and would only speed up the divorce process and make it more painful all around.


I'm with WorkingOnMe on this one I'm afraid. If one party wants kids, and the other doesn't want any at all, how then do you reconcile? Have "half-kids"? This one needs to be tagged as "irreconciliable differences" in my opinion.

I didn't want kids, but managed to get myself convinced to have one, then two. I love my kids to bits, but if I got the chance to do it all over, I wouldn't have any. Raising kids has been the most difficult activity of my entire life. And I'm a guy.


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## now_awake

LOYAL BUT LOVELESS MARRIAGES - YouTube

Watched this video today and it describes my marriage before we had our DDay. 

It sounds like it might help you too. Even if you leave, I think you'll have to become more self aware or you may end up repeating your patterns in future relationships (your wife too, I'm certainly not trying to put the blame all on you or on her).


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## now_awake

Also, maybe you should read Not Just Friends by Shirely Glass. My husband thought he was a 'good guy' too. He now sees that he's a kisa (knight in shining armor) and has terrible boundaries. It's not only betraying your spouse, but you leave yourself open for others to take advantage of you. You need to learn to care about yourself too.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Been away for two days (work trip). Actually slept through the night last night, 8+ hrs and am hoping to get at least that much tonight. I have to say that I don't care that I am alone. I'm a hell of a lot happier than being around her. I could ask her for sex, but you know what I've realized? I don't want it from her anymore. I am just way too bitter/angry/frustrated/pissed off. 

I've decided I'm going to counseling by myself first. Going to have to be talked into MC. Meanwhile, I'm looking at CraigsList ads for roommates...


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## cdbaker

WorkingOnMe said:


> Cdbaker please post a link to your thread so th op can see the result of allowing his wife to take with no expectations. He needs to see the results of your great advise.


Our situations aren't the same here at all. And for the record, I'm not saying that he should promise her no expectation of sex for any stretch of time. I'm just saying that when the marriage is on such shaky legs and both partners are unsure of how they want to move forward, that demanding that she spread her legs for you every night for a month as proof of her willingness to change just sounds horrible. She'd probably feel like she's being raped every time but too afraid to say no over fears of divorce and how she'll emerge from that. A woman needs to feel loved and cherished by her husband, but she'd probably feel utterly used, no more valuable than a plastic sex doll.

My marriage includes multiple affairs, abuse, a 3 year separation, etc. I want to save my marriage first, build a quality sex life second, and I think doing it in that order is the only way it'll work. I'm not a marriage therapist, and I know I haven't done everything right myself in trying to rebuild my marriage, but I can't imagine any marriage counselor advising that the best thing to do to try to save a sexless marriage is to demand that sex from your wife every day for 30 days straight, from a woman who struggles with sex as it is, on threat of divorce. Even if she were to give in to that, I can't imagine anything positive coming out of that as far as the marriage is concerned.


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## Anon Pink

I can emphatically state that insisting on daily sex in order to keep a marriage at least somewhat bonded WILL work.

The bottom line, does she want to be his wife? If so, then prove it by having sex with him, enthusiastically, every day for 30 days. She may hate it at first. He may hate it at first. But it will encourage bonding, encourage touching, encourage intimacy, encourage vulnerability, encourage honesty... How important is this marriage?

OP, with no kids... I would walk away and not look back!


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## DesertRat1978

It would seem that maybe taking a break from the wife and married life would be good for the OP. It would give him an indication of whether or not he prefers the married life or not.


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## ToothFairy

Why are you obese? are you working on this?


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## Anon Pink

ToothFairy said:


> Why are you obese? are you working on this?


Ooh, missed that!

That's a game changer OP.


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## scientia

Anon Pink said:


> I can emphatically state that insisting on daily sex in order to keep a marriage at least somewhat bonded WILL work.
> 
> The bottom line, does she want to be his wife? If so, then prove it by having sex with him, enthusiastically, every day for 30 days. She may hate it at first. He may hate it at first. But it will encourage bonding, encourage touching, encourage intimacy, encourage vulnerability, encourage honesty...


I can't agree with this. When you do therapy for sex related issues, typically the first thing you tell them is to stop having sex, not to have more sex. And, if the couple's issue is not related to sex but other things then modifying the sexual behavior isn't going to help. Sexual desire is also typically a prerequisite before getting into a relationship, not something you try to invent afterwards. It is very difficult to try to create sexual desire from nothing.

Secondly, not everyone has the same libido; the great majority of couples cannot sustain this level of sexual activity. Only 2% of couples normally have sex once a day. Just going through the motions can work somewhat with normal affection and if this were the only issue then I might agree with doing touching exercising even when they don't want to. However, I don't see how this could work with sex. Being pushed into sex is more likely to just make you feel resentful. Also, sexual memory tends to be based on intensity, not frequency. So, if you have thirty days of mediocre sex then it won't be memorable but if during that time you had, say, four occasions of really amazing sex, you would tend to remember that. If frequency is an issue then I might recommend working on intensity.

If affection is the main issue and they really do want to work on it then I would probably suggest alternating ten minute massages (her one day then him the next day). Most people enjoy massages and you then let the sexual desire build on its own. However, if there are sex related issues then those would have to be dealt with too.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

I'm an IT consultant/professional. Either sit in the car or sit at the client all day, or sit late into all hours of the night. Yes I am working on it, as time allows. FWIW, she is more obese than I am.

This week has seen bedtimes of 3:30am (Sun) and 5 a.m. (Tue), and I've been traveling the last 3 days. And I feel much, much happier being on my own/not being there. I should have been home tonight, but extended my trip another night precisely because i don't want to go back :-(


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Have signed a lease to share a house with another professional male (roommates - haven't had one of those since college). Can move in anytime after January 1. Also set up a separate checking account. Talking to a lawyer next week. Will be telling her, moving, and filing for divorce after the 1st of the year. It is time. I'd rather be alone and happy than together and miserable...


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## Thound

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> Have signed a lease to share a house with another professional male (roommates - haven't had one of those since college). Can move in anytime after January 1. Also set up a separate checking account. Talking to a lawyer next week. Will be telling her, moving, and filing for divorce after the 1st of the year. It is time. I'd rather be alone and happy than together and miserable...


Please keep us informed. It will be intresting to see if her sex drive miracously reappears.

Also work on your weight issues so that you live a long and healthy life.

Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AVR1962

No children and no sex in three years, leave. I am a woman and realize that when our interest gets to a point that there is no sex in 3 years, there is no interest in the marriage.


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## ThereToo

Marriage is a cruel joke of nature...


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## Fordsvt

No sex for 2-3 years in a marriage is not even real. The partner with holding sex is just being cruel and not meeting the spouses emotional needs. 

Demanding sex for 30 days straight??? come on-be real here. What does that prove? I'm with CDbaker on this. That sounds like rape and cruelty. 

It sounds like you have issues to. Over weight and poor health to name a few. I'd suggest you work on yourself first. You really need to read the MMSLP by Athol Kay. It is an incredible book.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

I have that as well, have been reading it. But for my next relationship, not this one.

FWIW I am a bigger dude but am incredibly healthy - only been in the hospital once in my life, take no prescription meds, no high blood pressure, no high cholesterol, no pre-diabetes. Still, I know this is a combination of good genetics and luck - and luck runs out. So I am working on this.

Did everyone miss the post where I pointed out that my STBX is far more obese than I? She is also insulin-dependent diabetic on 12 prescriptions, and has already had a heart attack/5 bypasses in 1999, and nearly died from a post-surgical staph infection?

I just can't stay any more. You are right it's cruel and has me bitter and angry and resentful. Have started to spend weekends away and it's amazing how much happier I am when I am not around her, and how much I dread returning. January 1 can't come soon enough... it will totally rock her world. But I can't take this any more.


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## WorkingOnMe

Stay on track. Ignore the haters. They just take snippets out of context and they lack empathy for what you're going through.


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## PeKyng

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> I just can't stay any more. You are right it's cruel and has me bitter and angry and resentful. Have started to spend weekends away and it's amazing how much happier I am when I am not around her, and how much I dread returning. January 1 can't come soon enough... it will totally rock her world. But I can't take this any more.


If her world would be rocked by your departure, then she should have considered her actions a little more. Stick to your plan. I am all for marriages working out, but it takes two. No one person can save a marriage all on their own.

It is all about compromise. Sometimes, you just have to know when to walk away in order to save yourself after giving your all.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

January 1 can't come soon enough... when I am around, waking up in the morning in the same bed as her, mornings like this, I am so full of anger. I ****ing hate being here. Anger, bitterness, resentment, table for one... I just need to be gone from here.


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## LongWalk

ThereToo said:


> Marriage is a cruel joke of nature...


Marriage is a human invention. Nature is cruel, too.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Bobby5000

You're not happy, she's not happy, not kids, what the purpose of keeping this.


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## Fordsvt

How is your MAP going. What have you done for yourself. Did you move out?
Give an update if you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Yes, moved out. Also filed. Saw the STBX yesterday, had to put down our 14 1/2 year old dog. She hit me up about counseling and, for the first time, took responsibility for many of the problems in our relationship. Had she done this before November, maybe I would have been willing to give it a shot. However, I've moved on and am excited for the possibilities in the future...


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Good for you, ZaphodBeeblebrox!

NOW she wants counseling? Yeah, a day late and a dollar short! Keep moving forward!


How is the healthier eating going? (I notice your location: Where cheese & beer prevalent)
How is the exercising going? We Americans can guess where you live; are you making it to a gym since it's undoubtedly too cold to be outside?
How is the roommate situation going? Everything alright?
Have you continued to READ self-help books and/or get into IC to help yourself?

Best wishes!


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

The healthier eating and the going to the gym (except for recreational/relaxing swimming) have kinda been on hold. Work has been crazy since early November and I've spent a lot of time at clients or on the road (between work and personal, 10k miles driven in the past 3 months) - averaging 14+ hr days. I haven't gained any weight, just maintaining, but have an annual physical (with a new doctor) forthcoming, so know I will get a talking to.

Roommate situation is fine. He seems like a nice guy (recent divorcee) and I am almost never there except to sleep.

I continue to re-read MMSP, NMMG, and Five Love Languages. Making sure the lessons are reinforced. If anyone has recommendations for other books, I'd love to hear them.

Also, to my complete shock, I've been chased by 3 different women already. And I think one of them might be worth pursuing/let her pursue me... But slowly...


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## Married but Happy

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> I continue to re-read MMSP, NMMG, and Five Love Languages. Making sure the lessons are reinforced. If anyone has recommendations for other books, I'd love to hear them.
> 
> Also, to my complete shock, I've been chased by 3 different women already. And I think one of them might be worth pursuing/let her pursue me... But slowly...


I highly recommend two books that will help you in choosing a new relationship by avoiding negatives and finding positives:

"Are you the one for me" by Barbara DeAngelis

"Please Understand Me II" by Keirsey (esp. section on best matching personality types - it's largely communication styles)


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Oh, I've read the "Are You The One For Me" but many many years ago. Before my marriage. Maybe I should re-read the latest edition ;-)

Thanks!


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## Why Not Be Happy?

You need to make time for your health------this is not optional!
Find hotels with a gym when on the road and get some form of exercise 5X/week (daily is better). Make it a habit.


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## LongWalk

Yes, you need to get in shape.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Yes I do, but I may be spending hours a day onsite at clients or in a car, not a hotel. Leaves little time but to go "home" and try to do laundry and get 6-8 hrs of sleep. We need to hire another engineer, pronto, and supposedly that's in the works. Until then... I am burning the candle at both ends.


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