# Unknown credit card debt



## Cam84 (May 19, 2017)

I am have been with my partner for 8 years. Just this year we were married. I wanted a cheap wedding.. she promised me it would be cheap. My parents gave us $10k for the wedding and my sister gave us $2k. Her parents gave nothing.

She also organised 2 credit cards with a $15k limit and Frequent Flyer points every purchase, she said we just had to pay it off.

She earns about $100k a year I earn about $50k a year. We have a combined account, since she is the bread winner I give her full control of the finances.

I knew we had some debt from the wedding, I was thinking along the lines of $20k, which didn't really bother me too much.Just recently, I stumbled across her mobile banking app. I noticed we were $38k in debt. I immediately questioned her about it and she went into denial- but it was blatantly clear. I did some simple math... and figured that she also probably hadn't paid back the debt from the other 2 credit cards.. which I was correct. We owed $30k combined at about 18% interest. She crumbled and admitted that she originally paid the two frequent flyer cards off but then ended up maxing them again. So we were about $68k in debt.

After further exploration, I discover that the couch that we bought hasn't been paid off $2k,m and another credit card with $2k outstanding.

By this time I'm spitting chips, I'm losing my mind. Once upon a time when in my early 20s I was terrible with money- but nothing like this!

She says things got out of hand, she was secretly trying to pay things off but the debt was spiralling out of control. I decide to take over the accounts. She can't be trusted. I sit down and figure out everything that needs to be paid off. We wait for the date that we are both getting paid and decide to divvy out what needs to be paid off first . We also give ourselves strict rules about spending.

Pay day rolls around and I say I will be in charge. I look at the bank account and notice there is $500 missing... I question her and she denies, I look her in the eye and question again. Turns out the new car she bought about 4 years ago hasn't been fully paid off. She told me it had. We still owe $7k on it.

All up we are about $80k in debt.

She is looking for a new job, there is a position in Melbourne ( we are from Sydney). Paying about $10k less. But it is career progression. I am a freelance photographer and would need to set up my network there. Her payout (long service leave etc) from her current job would apparently be about $30k 

Is it a wise move to move to another city ? We are both 32. No kids.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Some folks, well frankly most folks, say about 85%, are not capable of handling credit cards.

Cancel them!!! Then set up a payment schedule to put them out of your misery. Then accept the fact that you will be using debit cards from now on. You may bottom out, but you won't sink to the bottom of the ocean.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Having all this debt speaks to some serious character flaws and on top of it she was lying to you about it. You already said that you can't trust her with money and credit cards. I would be worried about what else she's hid from you. Before you even think about moving you have to sit her down and have a serious conversation with her about lying and trust. 

I would be very skeptical about continuing in this marriage. Some who is lying to you this frequently about major things is not someone you want to be married to and start a family. I got lied to shortly after we got married to and it basically wrecked our lives. I was foolish and continued to stay in the marriage. Now I wish I hadn't. Don't be a fool like I was. With all these red flags waving get out while you can. Don't move to another city and have to redo you client base.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Get the debt under control as @syhoybenden said; cancel the credit cards, cut them up.

This debt problem may spill out and over into the emotional reserve tank. It will taint and drain that too.

Money problems is one of the top reasons for divorcing.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I am not in Australia, however, I am a financial professional in another commonwealth country, Canada, therefore, our laws are somewhat similar. I seriously recommend that you go to a credit counselor in Sydney. I do not recommend moving or taking another position at this time, your incomes are needed to satisfy your debts, and every other consideration is not possible at this time.

If your figures are correct, between the two of you, you earn combined Aus$150K. Your debt stands at around Aus$87K. That represents nearly 60% of your annual gross income, deduct income tax, which, I understand is fairly high in Australia, much like Canada, so we are looking at minimum deduction from pay at $37,5K, and your take-home (if you have pensions, it will be lower as well) or Aus$113, making your income/debt ratio 77% of net take-home. That ratio is significant. Under normal circumstances, could you live on the balance so that debt can be satisfied within a year? I believe that such a ratio should qualify you for credit counseling. If the banking/credit laws are similar, then you should be able to make a consumer proposal, wherein you could have your debt reduced, and a payment schedule lasting 1, possibly 2 years could be arranged.

Since both of you have had a spotty credit history, I recommend that after your debts are satisfied, you either do not use credit, or restrict yourself to one card and develop a relationship with it so that it is paid off by the 15th of the following month.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@farsidejunky


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Divorce her, ASAP. People that hide debt from you and can lie to your face will never change. The debts will always be there, even if you monitor her cards and take control of the finances. All that happens is they'll get sneakier about how they hide their debt. Next thing you know she'll be stealing from her retirement account to cover hidden bills from you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Cam84 said:


> Is it a wise move to move to another city ? We are both 32. No kids.


Your financial house is on fire, and your question to the folks on TAM is whether or not you should try to wipe down the counters before you execute your fire escape plan?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Cam84 said:


> I am have been with my partner for 8 years. Just this year we were married. I wanted a cheap wedding.. she promised me it would be cheap. My parents gave us $10k for the wedding and my sister gave us $2k. Her parents gave nothing.
> 
> She also organised 2 credit cards with a $15k limit and Frequent Flyer points every purchase, she said we just had to pay it off.
> 
> ...


I would set up a Budget plan to pay off dept, she is now on a budget like a teenager any expenses go through you, Cut her off from credit, meaning you have access to monthly credit reports so you can make sure she can't open a secret account. She gets counseling for her spending addiction. Tell her it's her last chance.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

What was the debt spent on?

It sounds like the debt was racked up rather quickly.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Do what @Taxman suggests.

Make sure that you pull both of your credit reports (I assume you have that in your country).

Also, get the book *Smart Couples Finish Rich: 9 Steps to Creating a Rich Future for You and Your Partner* . Both of you would benefit from reading it.

It is important that both you and your wife are active in the financial management in your marriage. Do not just take it over and do it all by yourself. Part of fixing this is for the both of you to get on the same page and review everything at least once a month. Set up a monthly (if not weekly) financial meeting between the two of you.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Cam84 said:


> I am have been with my partner for 8 years. Just this year we were married. I wanted a cheap wedding.. she promised me it would be cheap. My parents gave us $10k for the wedding and my sister gave us $2k. Her parents gave nothing.
> 
> She also organised 2 credit cards with a $15k limit and Frequent Flyer points every purchase, she said we just had to pay it off.
> 
> ...


Do you own your own home or do you have sufficient equity in it to arrange a personal loan to pay off at least some of this credit card debt.I don't know the interest rates in Australia but I would think a loan or even a remortgage would be at a lower interest rate than you are paying.Moving from Sydney right now would be foolish in my opinion,you say it would be ten grand less in salary but with a thirty grand pay off,but what about all the moving costs involved,this is a journey of about nine hundred KM if I recall correctly.Would this payoff be taxed.You can't run away from this debt and adding more on to it is a ridiculous undertaking for some "career advancement"that may never match the salary she is earning.
Wtf is someone eighty grand in debt doing paying two grand for a couch.What size car does she drive if after four years the loan is still five hundred a month and how much does it cost to run.You are self employed,can you drive her to work and collect her or can she use public transport.Cut up the credit cards immediately,sell one or both cars and get something smaller and cheaper to run.You are screwing up your credit score for years to come if you don't take action to reduce this debt.
Both of you are living a lifestyle that you can't afford and you can't blame your wife for everything,you had your head in the sand over the preparations for the wedding and now you are paying for it.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Paying off the debt by selling the home will only be a bandaid, if the core problems for the debt aren't dealt with.

Mr. IMFAR and I have been in debt twice. The first time we paid it off by cashing out some investments (that we had never intended to cash out) to pay off the debt. We didn't get on a budget, or have a plan, so debt rose again, and this time I put my foot down and refused to cash out what was left of my inheritance. We put ourselves on a strict budget and are $4K from paying it off, which should take 5 months at the rate we have been going. Then we have agreed to never have debt again (except a mortgage.)

I'm not a financial planner, but this is what worked for us:
1. You both have to be 100% honest and on the same page regarding finances.
2. Make a budget of all the costs you have, or will have, including what you can afford to allow yourselves for "mad" money (coffee, etc.) You each have your own "mad" money. Never spend $ you have not budgeted for. All excess $ goes toward paying off debt.
3. If you have run out of money for a certain category in your budget, then you can spend no more until the next budget cycle.
4. Cut up all but one credit card, and use it only for bills that must be paid using a credit card. Pay the card with the $ you have set aside in your budget for that bill.
5. After the debt is paid, you can begin to set aside $ for things like car, vacation, new house, etc.
6. Never buy something unless you have already saved the $ to pay for it. If you have to use a card (i.e. vacation) then pay off the card with the $ you pre-saved for the vacation.

**The idea is that without a budget, people will spend all they have, and then some, no matter how much they make. That is exactly what we did. You have to designate where all your money will go, so the $ isn't spent frivolously, and never, ever, use a credit card unless you have set aside the cash to pay it off in full that month.

We learned all these principals from Dave Ramsey. You will find his program called Financial Peace University online. It works. If we had learned this in our 20's we would be millionaires with no debt by now.

If your wife still owes $7K on her car, perhaps she needs to sell it, and buy a less expensive car, and use the excess cash towards other debts. Is there anything else either of you can sell, of value to pay the debts.

By no means move, or take a lower paying job until the debt problem has been dealt with.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

First, read EleGirl's post, then read it again.

I have taken the position that since these two are rather young and have their entire lives before them. FIRST they do not have handle on the word "No", when it comes to purchases. Unfortunately, this has been my experience through 40 years of practice. Many kids make their way through school with mom and dad footing the bill, then they get out making a decent salary and have absolutely no idea how to handle money. Once they get a handle on their finances, I cannot stress how important a biweekly meeting to discuss finances will be for your future. Given both of your incomes, when this is all done, you will have a much better time discussing investments, mutual funds and treasury bills.

My eldest is finishing her residency in Obstetrics and Gynecology. She has been asked into a practice. We are looking at a significant starting income, with some startling expenses on a monthly basis. I am grateful that both her medical school and her residency program ensured that the young doctors had a year's worth of classes in handling money. The practice that she is going into comes with it's own accountant. I will be consulted, but I do not want to be part of the day to day. I will not be around forever, and I want to ensure that she will know how to handle income and reduce debt. (Professional loans granted on admission to medical school-I have never seen bankers trip over themselves to lend her a quarter-million, on signature. Wow.)


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Make double, triply sure she doesn't get pregnant.

That's a whole lotta money. What is there around the house, in her jewelry box, etc. etc.; that would account for the debt?

If you can't connect any physical purchases with the debt---then where did the money go?

If there are a lot of high ticket items about, if she's taken lots of trips, buys $500 shoes, etc. etc., then where did you think she was getting all the money?


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> *Mr. IMFAR and I have been in debt twice.* The first time we paid it off by cashing out some investments (that we had never intended to cash out) to pay off the debt. We didn't get on a budget, or have a plan, so debt rose again, and *this time I put my foot down and refused to cash out what was left of my inheritance.* We put ourselves on a strict budget and are $4K from paying it off, which should take 5 months at the rate we have been going. Then we have agreed to never have debt again (except a mortgage.)



Imfar,

Did you feel like you had to become the "mommy", at least in the financial sense? Or, if not the "mommy", did you feel like you were the financial adult; and your husband was the naughty boy who had to be looked out for and managed.

I ask for personal reasons. I resist like crazy being the boss or mommy in my marriage. The idea of it is repulsive to me. I was wondering how this worked for you. {or maybe that dynamic didn't take place}


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Imfar,
> 
> Did you feel like you had to become the "mommy", at least in the financial sense? Or, if not the "mommy", did you feel like you were the financial adult; and your husband was the naughty boy who had to be looked out for and managed.
> 
> I ask for personal reasons. I resist like crazy being the boss or mommy in my marriage. The idea of it is repulsive to me. I was wondering how this worked for you. {or maybe that dynamic didn't take place}


Hi nmrn4. No, I didn't feel like the mommy. I felt like I was just done with dealing with him. This was his last chance for me to stick around. Initially I asked him to make a budget, and after 6 months he hadn't so I made it. If he doesn't follow the budget, I'm done.

I wanted a D after I realized he had allowed the debt to grow. He was "watching" the finances, because business was his strength and what he studied in college and he was really interested in Finance. I had other responsibilities running the home and schooling the children. I was shocked when I found out how much we owed to the bank, and on a couple of credit cards. I had helped spend the $, but I had no idea how big the debt had grown, because he was always telling me how he was covering things (juggling payments back and forth to avoid penalties.) By the time I realized how huge the debt was I was already fed up with him (he had already had an A years earlier, then he went back to watching porn when he said he wanted to stop and I wanted him to stop, then I discovered he had lost $ in bad investments without my knowing he was even investing in losing stocks on a regular basis.)

He is actually relieved to be on the budget. Just like he says he was relieved when I discovered he was using porn. He was out of control, and didn't know how to stop. I put the budget together, and we follow it. Because he is on board, we talk about changes that need to be made to it, and if we don't both agree, we don't do it. He has actually thanked me for the budget with tears in his eyes.

I have to add that I sometimes struggle with trusting him, because of his past behaviors. To keep myself from being paranoid, I know that if I find out he is lying about finances, or doing things without my knowledge, I remind myself that it is his problem, not mine, and if he does it, it will be another nail in the coffin of our marriage, making it that much easier to D him if the time comes. However, he seems to really love the budget and knowing how much $ we have to spend on different things (like our anniversary) because we have been putting away $XX for a whole year. He also likes knowing that we paid our own debt, nobody had to rescue us by dying and leaving an inheritance.

His parents were terrible with money. His father lived comfortably off of debt and then went bankrupt. His mother (divorced from his father because he quit his lucrative job) had to be put on a budget by her millionaire 3rd husband. She spends (other people's money) like it is water.

I don't feel like a mommy. I feel like a rock that won't be budged.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I don't feel like a mommy. I feel like a rock that won't be budged.




That's great. I don't think I could do that; but it's good that you were able to make it work emotionally for you.

And good luck on paying off the rest of your debt.:smile2:


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> Having all this debt speaks to some serious character flaws and on top of it she was lying to you about it. You already said that you can't trust her with money and credit cards. I would be worried about what else she's hid from you. Before you even think about moving you have to sit her down and have a serious conversation with her about lying and trust.
> 
> I would be very skeptical about continuing in this marriage. Some who is lying to you this frequently about major things is not someone you want to be married to and start a family. I got lied to shortly after we got married to and it basically wrecked our lives. I was foolish and continued to stay in the marriage. Now I wish I hadn't. Don't be a fool like I was. With all these red flags waving get out while you can. Don't move to another city and have to redo you client base.


Good advice! I dated my ex wife 4 years and was married to her 14 more. I knew she lied constantly and hid debt and spending from me. I NEVER thought she'd lie to me about cheating or was even capable of it. Geez, I was an idiot. A liar is a liar. I'd definitely rethink things. She won't change. You'll be in debt the rest of your time with her. She will start claiming you're controlling.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I don't feel like a mommy. I feel like a rock that won't be* budged*.


Yes,

But you will be budgeted.

Two Budgies in a cage, now merrily 'cheaping' your way out of his debt load...the messy load that he left on the paper at the bottom of your marital cage.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Cam84 my first question is how could this possibly happen? Any person with an ounce of common financial sense could tell you were living beyond your means. She lied and decieved but you evidently lived the good life ignoring the obvious. I dont care who controled the money, $85k in debt is a lot of overspending that should have been very obvious.

OK, your spankings done. You have a lot of work and sacrifice in front of you, with the history of poor financial sense between you two you need professional help.

No you should not quit your jobs and move, you should both be working two jobs until you get out of debt.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> That's great. I don't think I could do that; but it's good that you were able to make it work emotionally for you.
> 
> And good luck on paying off the rest of your debt.:smile2:


Only $4K left! Then we'll sell our 5400 sq ft home on 1.6 acres and buy a more modest home with a lower mortgage. I won't be sucked into agreeing to more than I need housewise, leaving out what I really need (outside) again. I want a smaller home, with a nice yard, trees, room for several raised beds with a path between, a large cutting flower garden, and I'm good to go. Traded all the greenery/planting area for a huge home, with promises to put in the green....which never happened. His large home made him feel good, like his parents would be proud of him. I don't need that. My parents were practical, died with all their debts paid. That's me.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Good advice! I dated my ex wife 4 years and was married to her 14 more. I knew she lied constantly and hid debt and spending from me. I NEVER thought she'd lie to me about cheating or was even capable of it. Geez, I was an idiot. A liar is a liar. I'd definitely rethink things. She won't change. You'll be in debt the rest of your time with her. She will start claiming you're controlling.


I get that all the time to. If I stop her spending so that we can pay the bills, that makes me controlling.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Good advice! I dated my ex wife 4 years and was married to her 14 more. I knew she lied constantly and hid debt and spending from me. I NEVER thought she'd lie to me about cheating or was even capable of it. Geez, I was an idiot. A liar is a liar. I'd definitely rethink things. She won't change. You'll be in debt the rest of your time with her. She will start claiming you're controlling.


I agree, she won't stop lying about money or debt, it's part of who she is. People who end up in as much debt as she's put you in never learn to stop. It's a character flaw you just don't walk away from.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

JMHO.


Run to a lawyer and get divorced.

you will be forever trying to bail her out of debt.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Cam84 said:


> I am have been with my partner for 8 years. Just this year we were married. I wanted a cheap wedding.. she promised me it would be cheap. My parents gave us $10k for the wedding and my sister gave us $2k. Her parents gave nothing.
> 
> She also organised 2 credit cards with a $15k limit and Frequent Flyer points every purchase, she said we just had to pay it off.
> 
> ...


Melbourne is slower paced, less opportunities, but could build a better life there I think. Sydney is packed to the brim and I'm tired of the people here - but I'm stuck because of ex-wife and daughter.

Your debt problems aren't going to disappear however. I wouldn't say your marriage is doomed, she's been willing to admit (although reluctantly) about her financial infidelity, and you have taken control of your finances so you can still work with that. So what is exactly the problem? If the problem continues get her a debit card, you guys earn enough with no kids, and will be fine in Melbourne.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

I'll add my opinions to the mix. Your indebtedness is really two problems, one part relational and another part financial.



Cam84 said:


> All up we are about $80k in debt.


Cut up the credit cards. Get onto a cash-only system. Budget everything. Get a clear sense of how much money you have each month to throw at debt (takehome pay net of actual living expenses). 

Rank your debts smallest to largest, and attack the smallest; of the smaller debts, you should focus on the ones with highest APRs. Look into balance transfers into lower APR cards, and refinancing loans at lower interest rates. Do all of these things, and you'll make progress on repayment. Cross off debts along the way to total repayment. It will take years, but with your combined income, it's doable.

If you have revolved debts and made minimum payments for years without missing payments, I would imagine your credit scores are actually pretty good. You should pull them anyway, just to make sure your wife didn't let debt go to collections, without telling you.



Cam84 said:


> Is it a wise move to move to another city ? We are both 32. No kids.


I agree with others that your wife not telling you these things is a very bad signal. You have serious communication and trust issues in your relationship. Hiding financial problems is a few steps away from hiding an affair, or something along those lines.

Look, you just got married, and have been with your wife for a long time. I think that's enough reason to invest a few years of your life, and try to get things back to good. Go to marriage counseling with your wife, to improve the communication and trust. Work together, and get out of debt. I encourage you to fight for your marriage, if you believe it's worth fighting for. 

---

If things don't improve after your best efforts, you can always leave your wife then and start over with someone else. 

Whatever you do, don't have kids with your wife until these problems clear up. Also, don't make any big changes (no switching cities or jobs). Good luck!


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## Honda750 (Feb 12, 2015)

Cam84 said:


> I am have been with my partner for 8 years. Just this year we were married. I wanted a cheap wedding.. she promised me it would be cheap. My parents gave us $10k for the wedding and my sister gave us $2k. Her parents gave nothing.
> 
> She also organised 2 credit cards with a $15k limit and Frequent Flyer points every purchase, she said we just had to pay it off.
> 
> ...


My wife racked up over $100,000 USD in credit card debts on me without my knowledge ........... You are headed in same direction , suggest you immediately disconnect her from all financial matters and get some legal advice !!! You are at a very good position to get your debts paid off , I was unfortunate to be at 58 years old when I discovered my wife had pulled this crap on me . I'm 62 now and still trying to pay down the debts , my wife has not lifted a finger to gain employment to help me pay off this debt , I'm separated from her right now and looking at divorce over this matter ....... Get control of this now while you are young and have time on your hands !!!


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## BeautyBeast (Feb 3, 2015)

you need a post-nup


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