# What is the different between **** test and abusive behavior?



## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

So how can you tell the difference between the two?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

For me, they're the same.

My wife doesn't give me sheet tests and if she started to, we'd have a little sit down. One of the MANY reasons I married her, she doesn't play those games.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Dad&Hubby said:


> For me, they're the same.
> 
> My wife doesn't give me sheet tests and if she started to, we'd have a little sit down. One of the MANY reasons I married her, she doesn't play those games.


Good for you! I my wife does, which causes me asking this question... 

My question is mainly for those "nice guys experts", 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

joshbjoshb said:


> Good for you! I my wife does, which causes me asking this question...
> 
> My question is mainly for those "nice guys experts",
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh I'm a nice guy expert. Because I was a doormat in my first marriage and a "strong" nice guy in my current marriage.

I've posted about the difference but I know what you're describing.

If you wife gives you a sheet test. Don't respond to the topic. Respond to her actions. Respond to the root, the fact that she's giving you a sheet test.

Can you give an example?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Somethings are easy to distinguish...

Things that are **** tests.... these are abuse

If he/she hits you
If he/she throw and break things
If he/she screams and yells
if he/she belittles you on regular basis (If done once or twice is a marriage that's the spouse being a jerk once or twice)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

joshbjoshb said:


> Good for you! I my wife does, which causes me asking this question...
> 
> My question is mainly for those "nice guys experts",


Can you give an example of what she does that you call a **** test?


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Well, in one article I found online - it was the first result on google on the topic of being abused by wife - is that your wife is trying to make you feel bad, focusing on your flaws, tries to disconnect you from family etc. etc.

So my wife calling me - just few days ago - "the stupidest person I ever saw", yelling at me etc. would be kind of abusive.

However, and here comes the big BUT, she is not doing it on a regular basis. Basically when she is in a bad mood, I'd get it over my head. If she is not, than no issues. I had periods of time that for many weeks she had none of those issues, and then weeks that were all full of that kind of behavior...


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I think abusive behaviour is sh!t tests taken to a new level. Sh!t tests aren't evil by nature, but failing them causes a woman to lose attraction and respect. Failing them consistently, makes you a pest in her eyes, so the sh!t tests get dialed up and BAM! you got yourself abusive behaviour.

When you look at most abusive behaviour, it starts small (she's late 15 minutes preparing for a night out). If it isn't nipped in the bud, it shows that you are willing to take that abuse because you are unwiling to lose her. So, it gets larger(She is 45 minutes late for a family outing and shouts at you in the car because "you are an idiot who cannot drive fast enough"). If you let it continue, it turns into a sh!tstorm.(She's complaining to her friends and family about how much of an incompetent fck you are and putting you down at every opportunity.) Then of course, divorce follows suit, either by her-because she sees you as basically dirt on her shoes- or you-because you see her as an evil b!tch who obviously hates you for no reason-.

Of course the examples probably differ, I used a bit of exxagaration here, but the sick part is I didn't exaggarate that much. The increase in the volume of sh!t test happens so insidiously, that most men come to their senses at the sh!t storm or divorce phase. But it probably is too late by then.

Of course there are the sociopathic ones who will torture you physically and emotionally and their sh!t tests are generally impossible to pass, so the only way to save yourself is to get out quickly. But such people aren't that common. They are obviously not endangered species, but they aren't dime a dozen either.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm wondering what it says about a person who married the "stupidest person they ever met" ? 

There are putting themselves down more are they not? 

And yeah that's sh*t test IMO. 

Next time act, not react there is a difference. Try humor.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

joshbjoshb said:


> So how can you tell the difference between the two?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


**** test is a kind of abusive behavior. They don't have to be late on purpose just to see what you will put up with. If they do that then you're an object they're manipulating.

Naturally we distinguish between the personality disordered, who have no other way to interact with people except to manipulate. Normal people will get manipulative when they fear harm. We call them defense mechanisms in that context. 

Calling you the stupidest person they ever met is abusive, yes. You don't marry those people.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

I like what all of you are saying... basically this is what I was thinking.in other words, abuse is when the victim allows it to happen, which kind of put the blame on the victim...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Will give you my personal interpretation and experience.
"You are the stupidest person I ever saw ..." is NOT a sh!t test.

Not everything is a sh!t test.

At it's simplest and most basic ... a sh!t test is your spouse presenting you with an opportunity to succeed by demonstrating emotional intelligence and self-control, or fail and act like a kicked puppy.
And if you fail, odds are that the tests will continue as she feels LESS confident and secure about the relationship.

Abuse is not a sh!t test. Your spouse calling you an idiot to your face is not a sh!t test.

I am confident in telling you josh, your spouse isn't fitness testing you at all. She is already firmly entrenched in disrespect and disinterest.

You trying to color her behavior as sh!t or fitness testing is not seeing the behavior for what it is, and grossly downplaying and minimizing it.

And until you make the conscious decision to reject such behavior each and every time it manifests ... _with extreme prejudice_, then nothing will change, and both of you will remain
in the circumstances which both of you have built, and that you continue to enable.

I don't mean for that to sound harsh. I'm comfortable laying it out like that, because I lived through it myself.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

joshbjoshb said:


> Well, in one article I found online - it was the first result on google on the topic of being abused by wife - is that your wife is trying to make you feel bad, focusing on your flaws, tries to disconnect you from family etc. etc.
> 
> So my wife calling me - just few days ago - "the stupidest person I ever saw", yelling at me etc. would be kind of abusive.
> 
> However, and here comes the big BUT, she is not doing it on a regular basis. Basically when she is in a bad mood, I'd get it over my head. If she is not, than no issues. I had periods of time that for many weeks she had none of those issues, and then weeks that were all full of that kind of behavior...


This was, and still is to some extent, my wife as well.

I finally forced her into seeing a psychologist and a psychiatrist under the threat of divorce. She went, although unwillingly at first, and as it turns out, I was right about everything- she suffered depression, general anxiety disorder, mild bi-polar disorder, and my personal favorite but not an official diagnosis: martyr syndrome.

She's on a couple different drugs and she does take them. They do a good job of helping keep her evened-out, to a point, but certain things can still set her off, although she has only trashed the house once since going on the drugs a couple years ago, whereas before the drugs, the house-trashing was almost a quarterly event.

Hope this helps.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

joshbjoshb said:


> Well, in one article I found online - it was the first result on google on the topic of being abused by wife - is that your wife is trying to make you feel bad, focusing on your flaws, tries to disconnect you from family etc. etc.
> 
> So my wife calling me - just few days ago - "the stupidest person I ever saw", yelling at me etc. would be kind of abusive.
> 
> However, and here comes the big BUT, she is not doing it on a regular basis. Basically when shes in a bad mood, I'd get it over my head. If she is not, than no issues. I had periods of time that for many weeks she had none of those issues, and then weeks that were all full of that kind of behavior...


Doesn't matter what it is labeled, my W calls me "the stupidist person I ever saw" just one time, and she'll be collecting her clothes off the front lawn on her way to a hotel somewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Will give you my personal interpretation and experience.
> "You are the stupidest person I ever saw ..." is NOT a sh!t test.
> 
> Not everything is a sh!t test.
> ...


You know I have a lot of respect to your opinion, but - when you talk about **** tests, you don't describe the way it looks rather what it can lead to (or what are the real causes of it). My question is simple:

If abuse means when someone is causing you to feel bad, exploiting on your flaws, putting you under constant stress, etc - isn't exactly what **** tests are causing? Yet I have come to believe that the better you handle them, the less frequent they will become (it did quite work in my case!), so in other words **** tests are abuse in the making?

But I must agree that I am at a point of zero tolerance to any such behavior. 

Honestly, I think I reached a point of doing 180 without even reading about it. I just show much less affection (if any), not because I decided but because I kind of tired to be the one which is always nice, always initiating, always considerate and get nothing in return. I am still happy, cheerful (most times at least) and taking care of kids, helpful at home etc - except the little gestures I was so into it I do none of them.


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

donny64 said:


> Doesn't matter what it is labeled, my W calls me "the stupidist person I ever saw" just one time, and she'll be collecting her clothes off the front lawn on her way to a hotel somewhere.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You didn't think your comment was helpful, right?


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

joshbjoshb said:


> You didn't think your comment was helpful, right?


Actually, it is helpful, in the sense that there are a valid group of men who've been through that crap enough to lay down the law, hard.

For many of us, there's lines drawn. A woman may never say it, but she may have a no-slap rule. Her man slaps her, he then finds his clothes on the front lawn and a locked door. Why is it any different for men to have similar boundaries, regardless of the actual offense?


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

Okay, I am sorry but I am bit edgy today. I hope you guys take this with a grain of salt.

Your point is well made.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

joshbjoshb said:


> Okay, I am sorry but I am bit edgy today. I hope you guys take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> Your point is well made.


haha it's all good. I just fall into that know-it-all role at times where I see something I don't agree with and start pulling out the analogies and stuff.. We all have our bitter days.. if not then why are we all here 

It's valid also to question perceived bad advise  Especially here.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Josh,
I know you want to preserve your marriage AND improve it. Which is what the 'board' wants. 

I think you know this but, your wife's aggression is a Direct result of her Feeling Safe being aggressive with you. 

The 'stupidest person' comment is abusive. Her Yelling at you - is abusive. 

What did you do - when SHE said that to you? What are YOU doing to let her know that it is not ok? 

How are you teaching her to respect you? 

She knows she is being abusive. You have taught her it is ok to treat you that way. 




joshbjoshb said:


> Well, in one article I found online - it was the first result on google on the topic of being abused by wife - is that your wife is trying to make you feel bad, focusing on your flaws, tries to disconnect you from family etc. etc.
> 
> So my wife calling me - just few days ago - "the stupidest person I ever saw", yelling at me etc. would be kind of abusive.
> 
> However, and here comes the big BUT, she is not doing it on a regular basis. Basically when she is in a bad mood, I'd get it over my head. If she is not, than no issues. I had periods of time that for many weeks she had none of those issues, and then weeks that were all full of that kind of behavior...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Josh,
I respect your determination and commitment. And am sympathetic to your situation as it is a difficult one. 

1. You made a great observation: some partners escalate from shlt tests to abuse if you are failing the shlt tests. 
2. Are you willing to share what you did to shape your wife's behavior after her stupidest person comment? 

I know you are in distress, so I will try to be tactful. I believe that you are choosing to avoid taking steps that would cause your wife to feel the same level of acute emotional distress that her abuse causes you. Your fear that she will leave is preventing you from being effective. My guess it will prevent you from taking the steps below even though they are fair. 

Let me be specific. If Mrs. MEM said that to 'me', this is what would happen until I got a verbal AND written apology. Oh yes - the beauty of email is it allows us to handle bad behavior in a way that prevents the abuser from denying a pattern of abuse. 

Until I got the apology: Where possible (meaning stuff that doesn't adversely impact the kids) every request for anything that Mrs. MEM made would get some version of this response. And my tone would not be angry or hateful. Nor would it be me 'smirking' with an 'you are so screwed' look. I would use a low affect, sincere tone that conveys - why would you think I will help you after you talking to me that way?

- 'That request requires the services of a fairly smart person. Given your prior comments, I am a bit confused why you are asking me'. 
- 'That request seems inconsistent with your stated view of my intelligence'
- 'That request is way too complicated for the stupidest person in the world to handle'

And then - when you get a half hearted - insincere apology: 
- Given your view of things, the best way to ensure I remember your sincere apology for that comment, is for you to email it to me, and then you can read the email aloud since the level of stupidity you attributed to me precludes literacy.
- Oh - and when future behavior on your part reminds me of this incident, realizing that I wont remember or be able to locate the original, you likely will need to forward the email with some acknowledgement that 'oops you did it again' maybe with the date for the anger management class you plan to take. 

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This type thing will only work if you are willing to allow your wife to threaten to leave without you reacting. She says - I can't take this anymore - and you remain silent. Don't argue - don't engage. Because 'I can't take this means': if you punish me for abusing you, I am going to divorce you. Ultimately she has to make that decision herself. If you participate by arguing - which is your tendency (I recognize it because I share that flaw) you are increasing the chances of a divorce. 

Arguing your point when she fully knows she is being abusive - will only make her more aggressive. 



QUOTE=joshbjoshb;1492703]You know I have a lot of respect to your opinion, but - when you talk about **** tests, you don't describe the way it looks rather what it can lead to (or what are the real causes of it). My question is simple:

If abuse means when someone is causing you to feel bad, exploiting on your flaws, putting you under constant stress, etc - isn't exactly what **** tests are causing? Yet I have come to believe that the better you handle them, the less frequent they will become (it did quite work in my case!), so in other words **** tests are abuse in the making?

But I must agree that I am at a point of zero tolerance to any such behavior. 

Honestly, I think I reached a point of doing 180 without even reading about it. I just show much less affection (if any), not because I decided but because I kind of tired to be the one which is always nice, always initiating, always considerate and get nothing in return. I am still happy, cheerful (most times at least) and taking care of kids, helpful at home etc - except the little gestures I was so into it I do none of them.[/QUOTE]


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> This type thing will only work if you are willing to allow your wife to threaten to leave without you reacting. She says - I can't take this anymore - and you remain silent. Don't argue - don't engage. Because 'I can't take this means': if you punish me for abusing you, I am going to divorce you. Ultimately she has to make that decision herself. If you participate by arguing - which is your tendency (I recognize it because I share that flaw) you are increasing the chances of a divorce.
> .


[/QUOTE]

Good words... what I do do, whenever she once threatened me with the D word, and I was pretty much saying how it would be hard for me, and blah blah but it's her decision. Last time she brought it up I said by all means, go ahead and do that. You are controlling your own destiny, so if this is what you want to do go and do it.

Needless to say she never brought it up.

The main thing is, I feel like she really has a lot of emotional baggage... maybe my focus should have been on "forcing her" into seeking help, instead of me trying to educate her.

Whatever. I am just sad today.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Josh,
Of course you are sad. You are trying very hard to improve things and your wife seems to be fighting you. 

Who is your wife's role model? Who does she speak with who could give her positive advice? 

There is a book about 'improving your marriage without talking about it'

You might benefit from that book. 

Your W is strong and determined and volatile. She is not willing to go to counseling (doesn't matter why - she just isn't). 



QUOTE=joshbjoshb;1503504][/QUOTE]

Good words... what I do do, whenever she once threatened me with the D word, and I was pretty much saying how it would be hard for me, and blah blah but it's her decision. Last time she brought it up I said by all means, go ahead and do that. You are controlling your own destiny, so if this is what you want to do go and do it.

Needless to say she never brought it up.

The main thing is, I feel like she really has a lot of emotional baggage... maybe my focus should have been on "forcing her" into seeking help, instead of me trying to educate her.

Whatever. I am just sad today.[/QUOTE]


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## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

I wish she would have one. She is never really confining in anyone - not even her mother, which imo is a total emotional mess herself - doesn't trust almost anyone...


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