# May be calling it quits tonight- need advice- MLK day :(



## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

If you are reading this and can offer some insight I would greatly appreciate it. I found this site from an article about the effect divorce has on kids. I am just about to tell my wife I can't hang in there for the kids any longer (tonight) 

Long story short: Me- 43/to her 40y/o

Typical marriage of ups and downs. 12 years married, 17 together. Two kids over 6 and under 15. We have the perfect family life. We both have good jobs, great kids, friends, yadda yadda. At the end of the day, there is no us anymore. We co-exist. 

About 5 years ago I started to notice that my wife had less and less of a desire to be intimate and do all the fun things that couples do behind closed doors. So my curiosity got the best of me and I snooped into her email. I found a string of emails that were from another guy wanting to meet her for drinks(little older and bald). She was leaving work early to meet this guy. After I confronted her on this she said the he got her company business and that he told her she owed him a drink. From what I could see the initial email invite was several months before the day they tried to meet. She said that there was nothing to it and she wanted him off her back so she agreed to meet him. Well based on the emails they didn't meet (that day) even though they sure tried like heck. "Where we meeting" "what time" "hurry up and tell me, leaving work now". My wife is very cute and petite. Blonde, blue, size 0. Ok, so she tried to explain that away. I didn't buy it. She has a very felxible work schedule, works from home mostly and comes and goes as she pleases(God only know what I don't know). 

Fast forward. Her high school ex-boyfriend lived about an hour away and moved back into the area about a year ago. I know him(he is married) and I've seen texts on her phone that give me bad vibes. When he moved back she never told me. She knows I'm not a big fan of his but something I think she hid on purpose. 

Then she went on a business trip two years ago and her drink friend was there at the same conference. I checked the text log on our cell carrier and sure enough drink guy was texting her between 1-3am and again at around 6am the same morning while on the trip. I looked (and took pictures) of her lingerie drawer before, during and after she went on the trip. True to form some mystery red lingerie appeared after she returned. Wasnt there before or while she was away. She said she got it way back for our honeymoon. Ok, I get it. Pictures dont lie. btw, she hasn't worn any for me in about 6-7 years. She said it was in there and that it was on the bottom. It wasn't. She denies it all of course. She said she got her purse, which was always on top of her lingerie in the drawer and thats why the red lingerie was on top. LIE. No reason the drawer would be shuffled. Her diary is at the bottom of the drawer, but she didn't write anything in it at the time. 

Throughout these years I got the good for the goose syndrome. I am good looking, in amazing shape, workout a lot, take care of myself. Most females call me a hybrid dad. I have been pursued by many women over the years. I've had women tell me they want to f*ck me with no strings! I do everything inside the house, outside the house, grocery shopping, laundry, clean, don't spend money on stuff, church dad, coach kids sports teams, spend every second I can with my kids, like to please (but get nothing back in bed). We make great parents, a great team but she is completely disconnected. She tries a little once in a great while but the 1/2 ounce of effort doesn't scratch the surface. In the 17 years we've been together she's called me at work less thatn 10 times to say hi and see how my day was going. I used to work across the street from her office. She never called to have lunch. 2 years (before we got married even, sign?) She has no desire to cuddle, be intimate and playful. No desire to please me. We talk every 6 months about us. I tell her my needs, desires, expectations. Nothing happens and I tolerate it for the kids. She says having sex more than twice a week is above average and she doesn't want to, comparing us to some of her friends. We had sex about 6 times all of last year! I am a GUY! Beer, sports and sex and I'm happy. No sex and I am miserable. She knows but could care less. So I'm getting ready (tonight) to tell her I'm moving on. She has had her fair share of wondering about me over the last few years (goose). It kills me to divorce because I am 100% a family man. I love my family, kids, life, but I can't keep feeling alone in my marriage anymore. 

"The only thing worse than being alone is being with someone that makes you feel alone" -Robin Willams

I am so sad I want to puke over this decision. I've held off for years but can't keep pretending anymore. My blood pressure is high from all the stress. We do do stuff together, just us, date night, golf, etc. but its what is lacking on the intimacy and that she could care less about pleasing me that is killing me. She is like a blow-up doll in bed. Just sits there so I can please her. Been like that for YEARS! Puts no effort or energy into sex. I need someone who desires me, wants me, appreciates me. I told her years ago, I will treat you like a queen but you have to treat me like a king. Didn't happen. So I decided several years ago to mirror her in every way. I know, not a good idea but I want to be able to say "I give what I get". That's the gist of it. Always more but you get the idea.

Sorry was longer than expected. I NEED SOME ADVICE QUICK!!


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

If you think she is a cheater, post in the CWI forum. It seems like she is. 

You need to read NMMNG (no more mr nice guy) and MMSLP (married mans sex life primer). One or both will help you identify how you need to improve you.

My simple advice is stop doing so much for her. Your kids, do all you want, her minimal. She obviously doesn't respect you, either because you hold her on a pedastal or she is/was cheating and disrespects you for not putting the hammer down to stop it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What have you done to try to work through your issues in your marriage?

C


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

naiveonedave said:


> If you think she is a cheater, post in the CWI forum. It seems like she is.
> 
> You need to read NMMNG (no more mr nice guy) and MMSLP (married mans sex life primer). One or both will help you identify how you need to improve you.
> 
> My simple advice is stop doing so much for her. Your kids, do all you want, her minimal. She obviously doesn't respect you, either because you hold her on a pedastal or she is/was cheating and disrespects you for not putting the hammer down to stop it.


I do hold her on a pedastal. I love her. That's what we are suppose to do as a married couple. Unfortunately its a one way street. I do a lot for her. She does a lot for the family but for me, nada.


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

PBear said:


> What have you done to try to work through your issues in your marriage?
> 
> C


I refuse to go to marriage counseling. I can tell you she will never change her ways. She takes takes takes and gives little to nothing. We've talked many times. I've expressed my desires to no avail.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

bobmarley said:


> I do hold her on a pedastal. I love her. That's what we are suppose to do as a married couple. Unfortunately its a one way street. I do a lot for her. She does a lot for the family but for me, nada.


Where the hell did you get this idea.? You're the maid butler babysit,.etc. Why would a woman respect that.

Get the two books below,especially mmslp. You're in for a shock. You are as responsible for this as she is.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

bobmarley said:


> I refuse to go to marriage counseling. I can tell you she will never change her ways. She takes takes takes and gives little to nothing. We've talked many times. I've expressed my desires to no avail.


Sounds like begging doesn't it.... You sound like the stay at home dads that get cut off. Also , she meets other men, lies about her lingerie and you do nothing?

Look up neuklas thread.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Bob: From what you're conveying, I'd say that there is some "probable cause" for concern, over the cumulative events of your relationship with her. More especially with deception.

If a womn doesn't want to be with a man sexually, but has to because of a marital relationship, if and when she readys herself for that event, she is going to give only bare bones participation ~ greatly meaning just laying there like a blow up doll whether its intercourse or oral that you're providing; and don't even bother thinking about being the recipient of oral from her; that just ain't happening! Her heart just ain't into banging you any longer ~ it's greatly into banging somebody else who you probably have no knowledge of! You have been summarily relegated to being her brand new "Plan B!"

Your personal investagatory skills are noteable! If you took time to do a secret inventory, and she disputes it ~ she just doesn't want to be outed and will defer her explanations either to you being stupid, or even a snoop!

At this juncture, I would talk with an IC(individual counselor) and then with an attorney to explore protecting yourself financially. Additionally, read No More Mr. Nice Guy and  The Married Man's Sex Life Primer and devote yourself to immediately doing "the 180" on her! 

But do continue with your investigating her, albeit through her email and cell/text phone communications. And if she makes out-of-town business trips, continue doing an inventory on her lingeree drawer. She seems to be a rather deceptive "sneaky snake" ~ stay on top of it!

Sorry to see you here at TAM, but you definately came to the right place!*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/192194-im-tired-trying.html


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm sorry. It does suck when you realize you're the giver and all the other person does it take.

Sounds like you have reached your wit's end. It does happen. No matter how this shakes you, you will be ok.


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## tippingpoint (Jan 6, 2015)

It doesn't sound like you're in a place to speak in a sober manner that's not wrapped up in animosity. This has all the red flags of a nasty divorce if you proceed along those lines. Do you want to drag your kids thru that? 

Your story could be my story (see my original post) minus the infidelity. For me, I'm struggling to make the call because like you the marriage works 90% of the time. I can't decide whether my needs trump the fallout I would cause breaking up the family home. Ultimately, the situation is unsustainable. For me, if/when I tell my wife the conversation will be completely free of drama/anger/resentment because mentally I have already divorced myself from her. Are you there yet?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Be very careful when comparing your wife's lack of intimacy to wh0res on the street who offer nsa sex, and if they're propositioning married men that's exactly what they are. The intimacy aspect of a ltm is complex and subject to many factors that you won't have with someone with whom you have no history. It's exactly the same mentality that a cheater uses when they get caught up in how much the ap listens and treats them better. Because they're not dealing with the day to day crap you are. 

Having said all that it does sound like your marriage is in a bad place. Have you asked her if she wants to be married to you and if so why? 

FYI I'm good for 2-3 times per week, if my hb was badgering me for more I'd have a tough time. Does your wife have her own sexual needs, and do you know what they are? Is she satisfied when you do have sex? Think carefully because this board is full of men who swear their wives get off multiple times but don't want sex. That doesn't add up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/192194-im-tired-trying.html


Thank you!


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> I'm sorry. It does suck when you realize you're the giver and all the other person does it take.
> 
> Sounds like you have reached your wit's end. It does happen. No matter how this shakes you, you will be ok.


Thank you. Not what I want but what _I_ need at this point.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

bobmarley said:


> I refuse to go to marriage counseling. I can tell you she will never change her ways. She takes takes takes and gives little to nothing. We've talked many times. I've expressed my desires to no avail.


Well, then that is that and just D I guess.

You need to not make your woman your mission. Read MMSLP and you may begin to understand that everything you thought about women is wrong.


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Be very careful when comparing your wife's lack of intimacy to wh0res on the street who offer nsa sex, and if they're propositioning married men that's exactly what they are. The intimacy aspect of a ltm is complex and subject to many factors that you won't have with someone with whom you have no history. It's exactly the same mentality that a cheater uses when they get caught up in how much the ap listens and treats them better. Because they're not dealing with the day to day crap you are.
> 
> *My point with that was that I am a good looking, in shape, incredible lover who loves to give but gets nothing back in return. I've stated this many times and nothing changes.*
> 
> ...


*If I give give give and she takes takes takes, I stopped giving and caring about what she "needs". I told her straight out. She is more than satisfied when we have sex. Orgasms every time. Then I have to sync up orgasms with her, otherwise I'd be on my own not long after.*


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bobmarley said:


> *If I give give give and she takes takes takes, I stopped giving and caring about what she "needs". I told her straight out. She is more than satisfied when we have sex. Orgasms every time. Then I have to sync up orgasms with her, otherwise I'd be on my own not long after.*



I totally get the take, take, take aspect and it blows. My ex was like this. She's detached emotionally, otherwise she'd worry about your satisfaction. Can you elaborate on what she does? Does she get hers and then roll over? What are you asking of her? Big difference between demanding star sex and basic spousal satisfaction. 

I believe you that you're good looking and in great shape, I was just pointing out that marital intimacy is complex because, let's face it, life gets in the way. It makes no sense to be punitive though, if you've asked her what she needs in order to meet your needs, you've done what she's asked for, and you're still left hanging, just cut your losses without anger. There's always a chance she doesn't realize she's about to lose you, or she's just not that into you. 

You did say though that she makes efforts and it's not enough. What kind of efforts does she make? Any chance she feels like when she tries it's never enough?

What do you think your wife would say if she was here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

*I understand. I have asked before and she said she does. That was a while ago. Will be asking as part of the conversation. 6 times all of last year doesn't cut it. Granted I spent the better part of the year not talking to her much. Her needs are met. Once every two weeks for 3 minutes. Lays there and thats it. Thats her needs. 
*



lifeistooshort said:


> Be very careful when comparing your wife's lack of intimacy to wh0res on the street who offer nsa sex, and if they're propositioning married men that's exactly what they are. The intimacy aspect of a ltm is complex and subject to many factors that you won't have with someone with whom you have no history. It's exactly the same mentality that a cheater uses when they get caught up in how much the ap listens and treats them better. Because they're not dealing with the day to day crap you are.
> 
> Having said all that it does sound like your marriage is in a bad place. Have you asked her if she wants to be married to you and if so why?
> 
> ...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sounds like someone who's either not that into you or harboring deep resentment. I'll assume you've tried to figure out if there's resentment and why?

Either way it must be a soul sucking way to live.

We all have our own version of our marriages, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. But in the end the marriage either works for you enough to stay in it or it doesn't. Clearly for you it doesn't. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> I totally get the take, take, take aspect and it blows. My ex was like this. She's detached emotionally, otherwise she'd worry about your satisfaction. Can you elaborate on what she does? *nothing
> 
> * Does she get hers and then roll over? *pretty much *What are you asking of her? *more effort and not just take take take* Big difference between demanding star sex and basic spousal satisfaction.
> 
> ...


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

*I haven't asked about the resentment. I think there is a bit of insecurity with her. Have had women hit on me/flirt in front of her. I dont know anymore. I'm pretty sad about all of this.*



lifeistooshort said:


> Sounds like someone who's either not that into you or harboring deep resentment. I'll assume you've tried to figure out if there's resentment and why?
> 
> Either way it must be a soul sucking way to live.
> 
> ...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bobmarley said:


> *I understand. I have asked before and she said she does. That was a while ago. Will be asking as part of the conversation. 6 times all of last year doesn't cut it. Granted I spent the better part of the year not talking to her much. Her needs are met. Once every two weeks for 3 minutes. Lays there and thats it. Thats her needs.
> *


*Oh, it gets a whole lot better, Bob! The next step in the process will be her flatly telling you to go "screw yourself" and not in your bedroom!*


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bobmarley said:


> *I haven't asked about the resentment. I think there is a bit of insecurity with her. Have had women hit on me/flirt in front of her. I dont know anymore. I'm pretty sad about all of this.*


Hmm. What was your reaction when women were flirting with you in front of her? A woman who perceives that her guy is participating in any way with flirting women right in front of her might shut down real quick. That's very rude..... imagine some guy hitting on your wife right in front of your face. How did you handle this?

The more I think about this the more I think you're describing someone who's hostile toward you. At this point it may or may not be worth it to you to explore this, but if you're still looking for ways to address it this could be worth exploring. 

There was another poster here whose wife cheated on him and he admitted that he flirted with other women in front of her and rationalized it was ok because he wasn't cheating. Except that while he was getting off on the attention his wife detached and found someone else. Never got the feeling that he saw anything wrong with what he did, but if he took that attitude to the next woman he likely had the same problen.

Not suggesting you did anything like that but stuff like that has to be handled carefully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> bobmarley said:
> 
> 
> > *I haven't asked about the resentment. I think there is a bit of insecurity with her. Have had women hit on me/flirt in front of her. I dont know anymore. I'm pretty sad about all of this.*
> ...


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

If you suspect your wife is cheating or has cheated, then clearly it's not an issue of being too tired, being stressed, or having a sincere lack of physical desire. She simply doesn't want intimacy with you. That begs the question of why. There is never a justified reason for cheating, nor did you in any way deserve it if that is what happened. But you have to take a step back and attempt to look at this as objectively as possible. You have said you are good looking, in great shape, are an involved parent, attentive to her needs.... On paper you sound amazing. There's more to the story. She's not getting what she wants/needs from you in some facet of life. You've said she would refuse marriage counseling, but have you considered individual counseling? She can refuse to participate, but perhaps an outside observer could provide you with some answers/guidance that you can't see for yourself. If nothing else, it would give you some clarity in regards to your decision of whether or not to consider ending your marriage. It's worth a shot.


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## bobmarley (Jan 19, 2015)

SoVeryLost said:


> If you suspect your wife is cheating or has cheated, then clearly it's not an issue of being too tired, being stressed, or having a sincere lack of physical desire. She simply doesn't want intimacy with you. That begs the question of why. There is never a justified reason for cheating, nor did you in any way deserve it if that is what happened. But you have to take a step back and attempt to look at this as objectively as possible. You have said you are good looking, in great shape, are an involved parent, attentive to her needs.... On paper you sound amazing. There's more to the story. She's not getting what she wants/needs from you in some facet of life. You've said she would refuse marriage counseling, but have you considered individual counseling? She can refuse to participate, but perhaps an outside observer could provide you with some answers/guidance that you can't see for yourself. If nothing else, it would give you some clarity in regards to your decision of whether or not to consider ending your marriage. It's worth a shot.


When she attacks me or accuses me of various things that I prove are incorrect it upsets me to the point where I shut her out for weeks and months. I've tried not to do this but thats how I handle things. She said she distances her self each time I do this. She has a wall up and has for many years. We are badly broken. Family life is perfect. We are just two different people.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bobmarley said:


> When she attacks me or accuses me of various things that I prove are incorrect it upsets me to the point where I shut her out for weeks and months. I've tried not to do this but thats how I handle things. She said she distances her self each time I do this. She has a wall up and has for many years. We are badly broken. Family life is perfect. We are just two different people.


That's a very poor way to handle issues. That is the silent treatment and it is emotionally manipulative and controlling. I know because I'm prone to it too and really have to make an effort not to.

You can't shut down on someone for weeks and months and expect to have a close relationship, which most women need to be sexually open. This could be a big source of resentment for her..... have you thought about addressing this? It's not fair for you to shut her out for large amounts of time while you essentially pout, then make sexual demands when you're good and ready. Only you know how often this happens though, what do you think? What kind of behavior on her part elicits this reaction from you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

To save your marriage you have to be ready to end your marriage. You have to be ready to put it all on the line, and to walk away if she doesn't step up to the challenge.

To save your marriage you'll likely have to tell her you have certain boundaries and needs, which if not met will mean you are not able to stay in the marriage. Do not say she has to do ____ or else you leave. Instead you are saying you have needs and you cannot stay in a marriage where those needs aren't being met. Furthermore if she has made specific transgressions you can label those boundaries - I cannot remain in a relationship with a woman who does _____ .

I think you are an enabler, codependent (maybe), and a rescuer. You do all this stuff around the house, and do a lot for her. Who asks you to do this stuff? Does anyone ever say "Dad, can you help me with this?", or "Bob darling, would you see if you can figure out what is wrong with the dryer?". I bet you jump in and fix things for others without them ever asking you to do it.

That can be the beginning of a Covert Contract. You do X and expect Y in return, but the other person doesn't know there is a contract which they are expected to do Y. You might think it obvious, but it may not be to your wife. So you start feeling unloved and resentful. Or it might be painfully obvious to her. The only time you give her a neck rub as she sits at her desk is when you're going to ask for sex. So as soon as you touch her she feels dread because she knows your gift isn't a gift it is a manipulation.

You really should read No More Mr. Nice Guy, and also visit the forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin .

Why won't you go to MC?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Where the hell did you get this idea.? You're the maid butler babysit,.etc. Why would a woman respect that.
> 
> Get the two books below,especially mmslp. You're in for a shock. You are as responsible for this as she is.


oye vey :banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

bobmarley said:


> *When she attacks me or accuses me of various things that I prove are incorrect it upsets me to the point where I shut her out for weeks and months.* I've tried not to do this but thats how I handle things. She said she distances her self each time I do this. She has a wall up and has for many years. We are badly broken. Family life is perfect. We are just two different people.


This isn't just two different people. If you act like this you have driven her away. Why would you be so lacking in self confidence you cant communicate any better than this. If you hold a grudge this long you need serious counseling. That's not handling things, that's letting issues fester and grow. I'm surprised she feel like she can talk to you about anything.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> This isn't just two different people. If you act like this you have driven her away. Why would you be so lacking in self confidence you cant communicate any better than this. If you hold a grudge this long you need serious counseling. That's not handling things, that's letting issues fester and grow. I'm surprised she feel like she can talk to you about anything.


Or she has beaten him down to where he can't have a rational discussion with her. He brings up something which is concerning him, but she turns it around and beats him up verbally about it. So he learns to stfu and stay away from her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> Or she has beaten him down to where he can't have a rational discussion with her. He brings up something which is concerning him, but she turns it around and beats him up verbally about it. So he learns to stfu and stay away from her.


Why would you assume that? It could just as easily be him that shuts down every time she tries to talk to him about something he deems wrong, then he wonders why he doesn't get engaging sex on demand. Did you notice how when I asked him what she would say he said she'd blame everything on him, blah blah. That doesn't sound a bit dismissive? I find it hard to believe there's nothing he could do differently. 

Even if you're correct it's not going be solved by demanding his need be met or he's gone. If he's that big of a grudge holer maybe she'd be better off without him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why would you assume that? It could just as easily be him that shuts down every time she tries to talk to him about something he deems wrong, then he wonders why he doesn't get engaging sex on demand.


I am not assuming anything. Chap offered his opinion that OP had driven her away. I offered a possible alternative which is that she has beaten him down to where he feels he cannot interact with her safely.

OP described her actions as attacking him or accusing him of things he can prove are not true. If he feels attacked, he is receiving a message of anger and aggression from her. He describes his reaction as then shutting down and disengaging from her.

This sounds a lot like learned helplessness and not feeling safe.

OP acknowledges that the dynamics are messed up, and has tried to not react by disengaging.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Clearly, you have very serious issues & they are all jumbled up together.

I suggest making a first decision cut by asking yourself if you want to try to save it at all.

If your honest answer is 'yes,' then I think you have to confront the fact that she has been cheating. This would be the first order of attack for me. It could be a deal breaker. If it is, the rest of the problems are irrelevant.


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