# He has restricted my access to money - is this divorce grounds?



## hearthurts (May 9, 2010)

Hi,
Married nearly 20 yrs.
Supported him through numerous job loss episodes (incluidng being fired twice). 
I am now the one with no steady income and I have no access to money.
We have several children at home.
He has bank accounts in a variety of places but never has told me the numbers or how much is in them.
I have to ask his permission for money. Recently he worte to the bank saying their employee "breached security" because they tranferred money per my request itnto an acct I had access to (and yes, I had asked my husband permission first becuause the kids needed money for school & there was no money in that acct I requested. I said I would have to call back with the right acct number - the bank rep said he could find it - I had already identified myself as his wife).

I just found out about this letter. He doesnt know I know. 
I know I need a job - and I am looking. I need a car, too. Everything is in his name. 
We have struggled for years in our marriage but he would never leave. And I have no where to go. He has family, but I do not have a relationship with my family that I could ask to stay with them...andI have four children to move too. 

Is this money thing grounds for divorce? Or to get help to have him move out?

I have no money. No access to money save what he gives me. And now he has even told the bank not to allow me to have money?!??!?

Any advice would be helpful

Thank you


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Is this a new thing for him? did you have joint accounts before? do you have any idea why he'd restrict access to the money? is he controlling? have you spent a lot and caused debt in the past? It could be that he's felt insecure for so long that he harboring things for himself out of a self-preservation mode. maybe he hasnt felt like much of a man from losing those jobs and having you support him so he's over compensating by exerting the power he does have over you. if that is the case- then ya, its time to draw the line in the sand.


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## hearthurts (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for your response Blanca. 
I guess no - this isn't new for him. Taking it to this level is new. He has always demanded we be completely open and sharing in th emoney area- though it has been consistently confusing. 
Yes, we have had money struggles over the eyars but not from me running up debt. I have zero in credit card balances. I got a credit card in my name once to be held onto in emergencies - within a month he had maxxed it out on a car repair - it happened to also be during a time that he was unemployed. But again that was many years ago. 
He has kept the cars in his name. And now they are both paid off. I may just be truly waking up to a long time controlling husband. I wanted so much for thinsg to work - we have children. 

Early in our narriage my folks gave us money to pay off my student loan. He decided we should pay something else off first aand then we would start addressing my loan. That never happened. Now my stud loan is in default and that is the only reason my credit sucks.
The past number of year have been extremely troubling financially since our child died after an extensive hjospitalization...the his unemployments followed. 

So the past few years have been tenuous financially. I can't pretend otherwise. But I have stuck with him throughout it all. Paying bills - cable, phone, our kids tuition, food, kids clothes, etc - even a vacation - modest but a vacation no less. 

I am trying to understand if I - as his wife - has a certain legal right to this money.
I am caring for our children, clipping coupons, looking for work, consulting whenever an opportunity arises, freelancing every moment possible, doing his laundry, cleaning the bathrooms. 

Yes, he is controlling. I thought it was me not being clear enough. I have been quite clear, and it seeems it is making him more controlling. 

How can this be a marriage when he referred to me in a letter to the bank as "a family memebr" and "breach in security"? I told him before and after the transaction (of $30). Never hid anything. Was trying to get gas and food. Thats it

Anyway
Thanks


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes, you have a legal right to THE money--don't call it "his," b/c it belongs to both of you. Talk to an attorney--most will do a free consultation first. 

I am so sorry to hear you have had a child die. We all know that nothing is worse even though most of us cannot really even imagine how hard it would be. 

Would you be willing to consider counseling? Controlling behavior almost always stems from deep anxiety, and he may not even be aware of it. He may fear losing you/losing control over his life, whatever, so his behaviors reflect these fears. Counseling could be very helpful and if you have been through so much together. But if you are looking for a way out, then you have a different agenda and should definitely talk to a lawyer first. Good luck.


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

I would get into couseling and see if you can get him to go with you- most insurance pays for it so even if it is just you going you proabably wouldn't need to get money for it- hopefully...

It's not right for him to control you that way, does he have a temper- will he get angry if you go talk to a lawyer or will he maybe realize that he's pushing you too far and wake him up? I wish you the best and hopefully he can change his ways!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> He may fear losing you/losing control over his life, whatever, so his behaviors reflect these fears.


i think this is what it is. im so sorry about your child. whatever is going on right now is most likely not really about the money.


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## hearthurts (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for the insights and support. 

He is in counseling. Has been for years. We tried couples a number of years ago and that didnt go very far. Funny how he spends 25 bucks twice a week for counseling plus money on meds -and i cant get 30 bucks for food and gas for the kids without a letter being written to the bank?!?!?!

Im not so sure I am open to anymore counseling or any of that. This is just wrong on so many levels. And he has treated me this way for so long. I am angry with myself - and taking my personal responsibility for this mess in that it really isnt all that new. There's always been something off-center here. And I continued to want to make this work. But it isnt - becuase he is not well. ANd for some reason he is using me as his scapegoat. We have struggled financially since we got married and he blames me. He quit a job for no reason other than he didnt like it 2 months after our second child was born. I went back to work ft for 9 mos - then he decided he wanted to work again. So, I got pulled. He has quit, lost, or been fired from jobs so many times I have lost count. 

How can anyone be well that writes a letter to the bank like that? I mean, his wife transferred 30 bucks. And he writes a letter (and cc's the National Credit Union ASsociation) saying that a bank employee "breached security" by allowing "a family member" access to his account that was identified when opened as for "his use and access alone." ?????
On one level, I am pretty mortified. It makes me sound like an irresponsible child. When in fact, I am quite thrifty and have always made do with what he has budgeted for us for food bills, clothing, etc (coupons, thrift shops, walmart, and dollar stores). And then I think - that poor teller. She could get in a lot of hot water for that. But she was talking to his wife who she identified. 

Anyway, he still doesnt know I know about this. He knows ai m a mad because days befor e me learning about this we had a talk and I told him I am trying to be supportive of his financial goals but without knowing the where, what and how much of our finances it is very difficult. That I need to be included in these accts. He wouldnt do it. Then, I learn of this letter - that was written even BEFORE our talk. 

He told nme he loved me yesterday. I looked at him and said, "I just have a hard time believing that with the actions you have taken. Is tehre something you want to tell me about?"
He responds, "I just did." and he walked out. 

Anyway, been calling leagal aid and the like and everyone keeps saying I need to talk to an atty. But I have no money for one. Legal aid doesnt do marital issues. 
I am looking for a job. i need a job (I was stupied when I allowed myself to believe him last fall when he said he would support me as i look for a new job). I need a car. And a new place for me and my kids. It just seems trust is totally gone. 

This isjust so wrong.

Thanks for listening.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Go to Join the Live United Movement and find your local office. Ask them to help you find legal aid that will allow you to pay on the end, not at the beginning. That's what United Way is for - to help people like you. And yes, he WILL have to pay to support you and the kids, at least until the kids are all 18. You DO have rights here. Don't tell him you're going to do it, though, because he's likely to hide the money.

I would also start snooping to get evidence of his bank accounts and whatever else he has, so that when you do go to court, you have the actual account numbers and such. Goes over much better in court.

I thought you said the cars (plural) are paid for. Why do you need a car?


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## hearthurts (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for the info Tunera.

Yes, the cars are both paid off - and in his name - like everything else. 
So, I guess, I am feeling anxious about being able to "get" it. And the second pont to that is the second car has over 210K miles on it. It is on its last leg. Whjich again, is fine - I am not picky. But that is why I said I need a car. Worry about getting anything and worry that the car wont hold up. 

I did make an appt with a lawyer for a consultation and I havent said anything yet.
It is all so sad. I am also looking aggressively for a job. I hope I can find something soon. I have no money. This is such a dreadful feeling, but I know things will get better - just probably get worse first ya know...

Thanks again

Anyone have any ideas on how to get him to move out? That is gonna be a tough one too. He will expect me to move out by myself since he pays the rent. But I have no where to go - he does.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You will have to have your lawyer kick him out, with the separation or divorce papers. And your lawyer will make SURE he pays a good chunk of your living expenses because he has a legal responsibility for his kids.

And the lawyer will make sure that you get one of the cars to drive, if not a new one.


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## Blonddeee (Dec 17, 2008)

It doesn't sound like he will make it easy on you to get what you have rights to- so do your best to find a job and get whatever info you can on the finances to take to an atty- hopefully you are able to find free legal aide. 
You don't deserve to be controlled like this! My guess is that he's not telling the counsler that he controls you like this- there's no way this is normal- you aren't trying to clean him out and take all his money and you do have rights! I wish you the best!


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## hearthurts (May 9, 2010)

Well, I couldnt stand it anymore. <aybe I was hoping for some resolve.
I tild him that I knew about the letetr he sent to the back.

He didnt see any problem with it. He thought erferring to me as a "family member" in th eletter was fine. AS was everything else.
He did however go on to say that he felt my treatment of him the past week or so was bullying., He feels I am bullying him. 
I have retreated and been very quiet to him. Ut has been hard to even look at him. 
He was not able to give specific instances saying that it is a build up of things consistently that make me the bully. He says he feels bulied that unless he puts my name on the accts I wont be happy. 

I didnt say that. Nor did I imply. I did say I was unhappy with how things have gone and I dodnt understand it. 

Can I really be the bully in this situation? OR is he? Or are we both equally at fault - which is how I tried to address it with him asking for specifics on when I bully becuase that is not my intent. 

But my eyes are red from crying. 
I brought up happiness at one point and he said he didnt think we could make each other happy. Then when I mentioned we needed to discuss lawyers he began to say how I am fleeing th emarriage. 

He happens to be a counselor too.
And is in therapy. 
And it makes me wonder. IS his therapist putting this stuff in his hand? 
Is there are truth to it?
Or is he really twisted?

I have no access to money or funds or anything...unless I ask him.
I asked for food moeny on Friday. He agve it to me late Sat.

Am I bullying?


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

No, you are not bullying - you are trying to assert your role in this partnership called marriage and you have every right to either

a. Have equal access to joint monies.
b. Have an agreement otherwise. Some couples have it set-up where one pays the household expenses and the other goes to savings. Whatever works upon a mutual, consenting agreement for marital bliss.

But I don't recommend you continuing in this situation of financial ignorance. I know this is one of Suze Orman's (a financial guru on cable) sticking points - women often have no clue to the family finances and it does sound like your husband is conspiring to keep you in ignorance, whether intentionally or unintentionally. For all we know, you may have no credit history and that's a precarious place to be.

Marriage is very much like a business. As 50% owner in that business of child-rearing and asset management, you have a right to make sure the above is executed as a partner.

If your husband does not agree you have those rights, well, a judge will make it well known or his attorney will dutifully advise him of the law.

It just doesn't matter if everything that is owned is in his name from a legal standpoint. All property is presumed to be "transmutated" unless there is some extenuating circumstance ( a prenuptial agreement, etc.).

Good luck.

PS: And I don't care if he's a counselor. He can stuff his psychobabble in his ear. I am not anti-counseling. I very much liked mine and she was very helpful but his behavior is crossing into the legal realm and to me, his behavior is not civil.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He is gaslighting you. Look it up. 

It means that he, as a male, thinks he has the right and the wherewithal to pull one over on you because you are female.

In other words, he's a guy. He has the RIGHT to tell you what will happen, when it will happen, and how it will happen. Because he's a guy. 

It makes no difference that he's a therapist. Honestly, IMO, most people who become therapists do so because they have personal issues. Whether they LEARN something about themselves in their studies is a crapshoot.

It's time for YOU to stand up for yourself.


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## hearthurts (May 9, 2010)

Thanks again for the feedback turnera and scannerguard.
I have been looking nonstop for a ft job. 
Fingers crossed something opens up soon. 

We had it out about a week ago. And all in all he just wants to kiss and make up. I am not very good living in hostility so I am kinda trying to get along. If I could pick up and go I would. 
But I have trouble seeing how I could leave my kids behind - especially when they always come to me to talk about stuff. I just cant leave them. And he is not going. 

So, fingers crossed I get this job that comes with a company car. That would help tons. 

I will look up gaslighting.

He says he will put me on the other accts. Even if he does (hasnt yet) - the trust issue is deep in question. 

And I have a credit history - but a poor one thanks to the money decisions my husband hasmade. LIke paying his student loan but not mine. That has completely crippled me. And yea, I have been stupid and weak to allow it to go on this long 

Working on the change. 
Grateful for your ears and voices.
Very grateful.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have NO reason to leave your kids.

All you have to do is let your lawyer kick HIM out.


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## Harvard (Aug 11, 2009)

First off, he is a "control freak" and if it were anyone else he would be the same way so it is not you.

In a divorce situation as things are today, he must pay you alimony and child support.

As fas as where you and your kids will live you can work that out with your attorney, for him to be so greedy and ugly about money you need for the family is sick!! Do yourself a favor, tell him his therapy sessions arent working and you are filing for divorce. 

There is most likely a free agency in your county. If he is smart after you tell him this he will stop controlling you like some kind of piece of crap and start treating you like a wife! Good Luck!


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