# Lunch with the opposite sex??



## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

My wife was recently involved in a long term emotional affair with another man. It has been about two months since they last talked but I am still dealing with the pain every minute. 

Last week she went out to lunch with a male co-worker. It was just the two of them. She bought lunch even though she consistently says that she doesn't have any money. She never bothered to call me and told me about it that night. 

She doesn't think that she did anything wrong, however I feel it is highly inappropriate for a married woman to go to lunch with some of the opposite sex. Especially as she has refused to talk to me about what she considers acceptable boundaries in a relationship. Am I out of line on this issue?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

No you are not out of line.

You can't control her but you can control what you tolorate.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You need to find a women that can affair proof a marriage.

You need to find a women that has at least some respect for you.

I'm afraid this is going to snowball, and years from now you will be kicking your self for not getting out now.

When was the last time you got tested for STD's?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

No you are not out of line and, in my opinion, you have every right yo tell her that you don't want it to happen again. Frankly, I don't think she'll stop (because she doesn't seem to understand boundaries), but you should draw the line.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Camby said:


> *My wife was recently involved in a long term emotional affair with another man. It has been about two months since they last talked but I am still dealing with the pain every minute. *
> 
> Last week she went out to lunch with a male co-worker. It was just the two of them. She bought lunch even though she consistently says that she doesn't have any money. She never bothered to call me and told me about it that night.
> 
> She doesn't think that she did anything wrong, however I feel it is highly inappropriate for a married woman to go to lunch with some of the opposite sex. Especially as she has refused to talk to me about what she considers acceptable boundaries in a relationship. Am I out of line on this issue?


Two months is barely out of withdrawal from the affair if she went NC.

Where was her EA? Is this how she started the other one. Does the EA guy work where she works?

Rather than make a general statement here, I will say given her recent EA that this was unwise.

Had she gone to lunch with a group that would be different.

Why would she pay? Just curious.

Also how do you know who she took to lunch?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

How long have you been married?


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

No idea why she would pay. The guy is a computer tech so he probably makes three times her salary. I don't understand it either and she is trying to justify it by saying it is not big deal.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

I've been married ten years, and we have two kids.


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

sounds like she's showing no remorse for her EA

was the EA guy a coworker too?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Camby said:


> No idea why she would pay. The guy is a computer tech so he probably makes three times her salary. I don't understand it either and she is trying to justify it by saying it is not big deal.


What were the details of the previous EA. Looking for a pattern here.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, it's a big deal. The fact that she doesn't understand that, after just coming out of an EA, says a lot. And won't discuss boundaries? You have a problem. 

She paid for lunch because she is the one who asked him and not the other way around.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

The emotional affair began with the best friend of her sister and brother-in-law. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that it was emotional although she has a pattern of lying to me until she is caught. She texted the guy around 700 times in one month, and was calling him and talking for hours at a time. She considers it no big deal even though it has destroyed my kids and family, and she lied four times about ceasing contact. One day she will say that she screwed up, the next day she will say it's no big deal. She was going to a therapist for a while in addition to being put on anti-depressant medicine but she has since quit therapy and says that she doesn't need to go as she has nothing to talk about. 

Since the emotional affair the relationship with her sister is very strained and she has blamed me for discussing the situation with her sister.

The guy is twenty years older than her but she denies that he would ever try to have a sexual relationship with her. And no, I'm smarter than that, I know what he was doing she's just in denial.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

The only reason I am still married to her is because she has been through much trauma and pain in her life and she has lost too many people. However, as you can tell by my post she is very disrespectful to me, she is angry all the time, and is unwilling to be consistent with getting herself help. She blames me for everything, tries to justify her bad behavior by comparing it to what someone else does, and it is a constant battle with drama in the house. I don't want the kids to lose their family as they want us together, but she has been emotionally abusive for a long time and has thus far refused to accept responsibility for any of her actions.

I still have feelings for her but I am at the end of my rope. She was on hormone therapy which was improving things but she has quit twice. She has quit marriage counseling three times. She has quit individual counseling three times. She also had a second texting affair with a local farmer which is a complete other story.

Everything is a battle. I would like nothing better for her to go to therapy and get help. After what she has put the family through I think it is the least she could do, but she is too stubborn. I feel her lack of cooperation with the therapists is very disrespectful to me and the kids but she doesn't see it that way.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

So it was not work.

Are you sure she did not by this EA guy lunch? How do you know?


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

I really think that it depends who it is. Some guys are simply no threat at all, some are. They know who they are and your wife certainly knows. But unless I knew who it was I'd say uh uh.

Just sayin, there are a few women I work with that would be no threat at all to my wife if I had lunch with them. On the other hand, I know a few who I know would absolutely be a threat. Thats why it depends.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

Entropy3000 said:


> So it was not work.
> 
> Are you sure she did not by this EA guy lunch? How do you know?


The guy she had the emotional affair with wouldn't show up in town. I made it clear to him when I served him with a restraining order that I was not afraid to go to prison for my kids. She told me who the guy is that she went to lunch with and they went to a local restaurant. We live in a small town and I've already heard from one person wanting to know who she was eating with. 

If she ever talks to the guy she had the affair with, I will not hesitate to file for a divorce the same day and throw her stuff on the back porch. That will be enough abuse for one lifetime.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Ok. 

Anyway, she seems to seeking attention. 

Not sure it would help but have you tried doing His Needs Her Needs together?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

I had a few thoughts in reading this. In the ordinary course, married men and women should be able to maintain and should I believe have friendships with members of the opposite sex. Healthy, I think. Lunch too. But what's up with your wife having an affair with a deadbeat guy 20 years older. That is weird.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

roostr said:


> I really think that it depends who it is. Some guys are simply no threat at all, some are. They know who they are and your wife certainly knows. But unless I knew who it was I'd say uh uh.
> 
> Just sayin, there are a few women I work with that would be no threat at all to my wife if I had lunch with them. On the other hand, I know a few who I know would absolutely be a threat. Thats why it depends.


I agree. I would say that a year ago I had 100% trust in her and trusted her more than probably 99% of the husbands out there. But she took complete advantage of me multiple times and now I don't trust her at all. She sees the lack of trust as my problem and doesn't accept the responsibility that she is the cause. I suspect she doesn't care if I trust her or not. I doubt she will ever realize what she had with our relationship until I'm gone.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

roostr said:


> I really think that it depends who it is. Some guys are simply no threat at all, some are. They know who they are and your wife certainly knows. But unless I knew who it was I'd say uh uh.
> 
> Just sayin, there are a few women I work with that would be no threat at all to my wife if I had lunch with them. On the other hand, I know a few who I know would absolutely be a threat. Thats why it depends.


That may be true, but the fact that she is just a couple of months removed from an EA should prohibit her from even _thinking_ about having lunch alone with another man.

She just has piss poor marital boundaries, and is probably riding her previous trials and tribulations as a free pass to do so.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

Harken Banks said:


> I had a few thoughts in reading this. In the ordinary course, married men and women should be able to maintain and should I believe have friendships with members of the opposite sex. Healthy, I think. Lunch too. But what's up with your wife having an affair with a deadbeat guy 20 years older. That is weird.


She is emotionally lost. She has no goals in life, no priorities, severely depressed, in denial, and is looking for anything in life that will make her happy. She does not recognize the reason she is not happy is the depression, so she is hurting the people who love and care about her while trying to find something that will make her happy.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

Entropy3000 said:


> Ok.
> 
> Anyway, she seems to seeking attention.
> 
> Not sure it would help but have you tried doing His Needs Her Needs together?


I haven't tried that particular book (if it's a book). We tried marriage counseling but once we got into the heart of the counseling and the counselor called her out on things she was saying about me that were untrue, and the counselor caught her lying multiple times, she quit going. She has not made any legitimate suggestions on how to improve the marriage. She seems to be under the impression it's all my fault and problem.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Going to prison wouldn't be "for your kids" in any way shape or form. But I get your point.

What kind of position does your wife hold at work? Sales? Project manager? 

It isn't uncommon for a sales person to take a coworker out to lunch and pick up the tab, when a non-sales person helped out on a project or deal or whatever, and may or may by be compensated with any kind of bonus.

All that said with her history you have a right to he upset.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

It's a book and it's OK but mostly an apology.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Going to prison wouldn't be "for your kids" in any way shape or form. But I get your point.
> 
> What kind of position does your wife hold at work? Sales? Project manager?
> 
> ...


She's a customer service rep and the co-worker is in the computer field in a completely different building. She isn't involved in any sales or projects. She's in an entry level position with no need to take out clients, co-workers, or supervisors.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

Harken Banks said:


> It's a book and it's OK but mostly an apology.


I'll check it out now. We were watching the marriage today videos online but she stopped that a long time ago. She doesn't show any sincere interest in changing her ways to save the family.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Camby said:


> She's a customer service rep and the co-worker is in the computer field in a completely different building. She isn't involved in any sales or projects. She's in an entry level position with no need to take out clients, co-workers, or supervisors.


Ugh bad news bro
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Camby has she done any ic?
You were absolutely not out of line she has to figure out why she is constantly seeking validation.
It may take the threat of telling her you are just done with this crap.
Weightlifter, a guy here told his w he was done.
Boy she took him seriously and she totally turned around.
Do not know if this will work for you just consider it and PM him if you have any questions.
Wish you the best.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Ugh bad news bro
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
VAR in her car asap!!!
Sigh...


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

You are not out of line. Your wife's boundaries are non existant as demonstrated by her belief that her last affair was no big deal.

I'm struggling with believing the long term EA part. You think he was hanging around long term without sex? Does that sound normal to you? Maybe you could expand on long term?

Consider dropping VAR in her car and or a key logger on her pc.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

workindad said:


> You are not out of line. Your wife's boundaries are non existant as demonstrated by her belief that her last affair was no big deal.
> 
> I'm struggling with believing the long term EA part. You think he was hanging around long term without sex? Does that sound normal to you? Maybe you could expand on long term?
> 
> Consider dropping VAR in her car and or a key logger on her pc.


:iagree:


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Camby said:


> However, as you can tell by my post she is very disrespectful to me, she is angry all the time, and is unwilling to be consistent with getting herself help. She blames me for everything, tries to justify her bad behavior by comparing it to what someone else does, and it is a constant battle with drama in the house.


Here's the thing Dawg. She's disloyal, untrustworthy, disrespectful, and harping all the time. My guess is your sex life sucks. (no pun intended) And despite her recent "activities" she has no concern about your peace of mind. You can keep putting up with this horse sh-t if you want, but I wouldn't.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She doesn't see the problem and I don't see what leverage you have (that you are willing to use) to make her see it. MC is apparently out. Telling her you can't live that way (and backing up that threat if you have to) is out. She's the one driving the bus.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Openminded said:


> She doesn't see the problem and I don't see what leverage you have (that you are willing to use) to make her see it. MC is apparently out. Telling her you can't live that way (and backing up that threat if you have to) is out. She's the one driving the bus.


Time to file to turn the bus around.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Camby said:


> She's a customer service rep and the co-worker is in the computer field in a completely different building. She isn't involved in any sales or projects. She's in an entry level position with no need to take out clients, co-workers, or supervisors.


I wouldn't even call this guy a "co-worker". Your wife asked him out on a lunch date? How did you find out about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Camby said:


> My wife was recently involved in a long term emotional affair with another man. It has been about two months since they last talked but I am still dealing with the pain every minute.
> 
> Last week she went out to lunch with a male co-worker. It was just the two of them. She bought lunch even though she consistently says that she doesn't have any money. She never bothered to call me and told me about it that night.
> 
> She doesn't think that she did anything wrong, however I feel it is highly inappropriate for a married woman to go to lunch with some of the opposite sex. Especially as she has refused to talk to me about what she considers acceptable boundaries in a relationship. Am I out of line on this issue?


This is 'personal boundaries 101'. If you have to ask this question then are part of the problem. If she's not doing the heavy lifting that she's earned then you're in false reconciliation. Which means nothing has changed and she's still out there looking for a replacement.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Camby said:


> No idea why she would pay. The guy is a computer tech so he probably makes three times her salary. I don't understand it either and she is trying to justify it by saying it is not big deal.


If it was not a big deal, then it would not have mattered if she had not gone either.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> I had a few thoughts in reading this. In the ordinary course, married men and women should be able to maintain and should I believe have friendships with members of the opposite sex. Healthy, I think. Lunch too. But what's up with your wife having an affair with a deadbeat guy 20 years older. That is weird.


Why would it be healthy for a particularly unremorseful WS, 2 months out from an affair, to have lunch with someone of the opposite sex?

I am friendly with men at work but have no desire to go out to lunch or do anything with any of them outside of work. I also don't purposely cultivate friendships with men in other areas of my life. I don't go out of my way to be unfriendly either, just not concerned. I'm not sure why having opposite sex friendships are a marker of health either. 

Clearly, for some, opposite sex friendships do nothing but lead to trouble.

IDK, I have my uncles, cousins, in-laws.... no shortage of familial male companionship; in addition and secondary to, of course, my WS. Although I have good boundaries and have never cheated, I just don't see what the point would be for me to have a male friend I went about trying to make social plans with on a regular basis.

After my experience as a BS, I think many opposite sex friendships are akin to playing with fire. Not worth it.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Hello EA number 2. This behavour is most unacceptable and should not be tolerated.

The problem is what consequences if any did you offer up the first time.

I have a feeling that no consequences were offered up by you with the first EA, so now your wife feels its ok to do whatever she pleases.

Just to clarify no it is not ok for a married women to go out alone with another man, ESPECIALLY so Given that she had an EA Affair previously.

I would also hide a VAR underneath her car seat and strap it with velcro. Bet you find out a lot more things.

Sorry you are going through this but man up and dont tolerate this behavour.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sports Fan said:


> Hello EA number 2. This behavour is most unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
> 
> The problem is what consequences if any did you offer up the first time.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

The lunch is just a symptom. Your wife has problems that are marriage killers. Very sorry, but if she won't address her issues, your marriage will more than likely be destroyed. You probably need to start acting in the interest of yourself and children.

Hope she wakes up. Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Well let's take stock.....

She consistently lies to you. She rug sweeps and blameshifts. She makes it clear to not have love or respect for you or your marriage. She has loose boundaries where men are concerned. And she continues to lie. 

Gee, I dunno, but I sense a few issues here...

My best opinion is that you are simply going to have to get tough and set some lines she cannot cross over. Among those are some MC for the both of you, she is going to have to give you better answers than she has, she is going to have to stop lying, she is going to have to agree to have much tighter boundaries....

Clearly there are some disconnects here and I see nothing but more heartache until the marriage implodes. If you are willing to try and forgive she will need to ask for it. You two need to seriously work on rediscovering your love.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> Why would it be healthy for a particularly unremorseful WS, 2 months out from an affair, to have lunch with someone of the opposite sex?
> 
> I am friendly with men at work but have no desire to go out to lunch or do anything with any of them outside of work. I also don't purposely cultivate friendships with men in other areas of my life. I don't go out of my way to be unfriendly either, just not concerned. I'm not sure why having opposite sex friendships are a marker of health either.
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to say that anyone should seek out opposite sex friendships as part of a more balanced life. Healthy friendships generally develop organically it seems stilted and a bit stifling to wall off half the population. I also think externally imposed or otherwise artificial boundaries tend to invite resistance, even defiance. 

My best friends throughout my life have been guys. But I also have have and have throughout my life had some friends who are women. Some I know are more chummy with other guys who happen to be guys. Doesn't bother me and I don't think about it; I don't make that good a girl friend and I know it and don't care. I understand that some people here feel that a married man or woman has no business being friends or having lunch with a member of the opposite sex. I don't feel that way.

Now, wife of OP here seems to have a problem. But bad cases make bad law.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Nothing to be said here that hasn't already been said for 10 post previously before mine.

No YOU ARE NOT GOING Nuts.. Though that is what they want you to believe..


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> I didn't mean to say that anyone should seek out opposite sex friendships as part of a more balanced life. Healthy friendships generally develop organically it seems stilted and a bit stifling to wall off half the population. I also think externally imposed or otherwise artificial boundaries tend to invite resistance, even defiance.
> 
> My best friends throughout my life have been guys. But I also have have and have throughout my life had some friends who are women. Some I know are more chummy with other guys who happen to be guys. Doesn't bother me and I don't think about it; I don't make that good a girl friend and I know it and don't care. I understand that some people here feel that a married man or woman has no business being friends or having lunch with a member of the opposite sex. I don't feel that way.
> 
> Now, wife of OP here seems to have a problem. But bad cases make bad law.



The boundaries shouldn't be artificial. One should care enough and respect their mate enough to not have friendships that even hint at being improper. And in this case sharing a private lunch with with someone of the opposite sex especially after an ea hints that she is working on developing her next affair partner. Not proper, not at all.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Acoa said:


> The boundaries shouldn't be artificial. One should care enough and respect their mate enough to not have friendships that even hint at being improper. And in this case sharing a private lunch with with someone of the opposite sex especially after an ea hints that she is working on developing her next affair partner. Not proper, not at all.


I agree.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I was trusting of my wife having an opposite sex friendship with a male coworker and going out to dinner with him.

Was fine with it until dinner turned into drinks and he was sexting her later that night.

Will there be more one on one meals with opposite sex coworkers? Nope.

She had the benefit of my trust, and it was abused. OP your wife did the same thing. She had your trust,and she abused it. So going forward any of this type behavior can't be tolerated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Out of line, no way. You are right on target. Anyone having an EA will go to a PA in a hot minute. The fact that she told you after she went to lunch with a guy from work, that has zero range. It's better to beg for forgiveness than blah blah blah in her world. No respect. She probably knew you would say no. You did the right thing, do what these pro's are telling. Var the car, check cell records, watch for red flags. BTW, I have depression as well, doesn't give me the right of way for making bad choices. Good luck.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

TryingToRecover said:


> Why would it be healthy for a particularly unremorseful WS, 2 months out from an affair, to have lunch with someone of the opposite sex?
> 
> I am friendly with men at work but have no desire to go out to lunch or do anything with any of them outside of work. I also don't purposely cultivate friendships with men in other areas of my life. I don't go out of my way to be unfriendly either, just not concerned. I'm not sure why having opposite sex friendships are a marker of health either.
> 
> ...


I agree. Some people are capable of these kind of relationships, but this woman is not one of them.

And if you have a generally decent social life, why go down this path at all? I have female "friends" I suppose, but I do not do things one-on-one with them.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing Dawg. She's disloyal, untrustworthy, disrespectful, and harping all the time. My guess is your sex life sucks. (no pun intended) And despite her recent "activities" she has no concern about your peace of mind. You can keep putting up with this horse sh-t if you want, but I wouldn't.


You are absolutely correct.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I was trusting of my wife having an opposite sex friendship with a male coworker and going out to dinner with him.
> 
> Was fine with it until dinner turned into drinks and he was sexting her later that night.
> 
> ...


QFT


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Camby, you are getting good advice here. As someone whose wife also had a deep EA with a good male friend of hers, I can feel your pain.

Your wife, though, also has other problems. Borderline Personality Disorder maybe? She seems completely narcissistic and unable to think about anyone but herself. This pattern appears it will never change. 

If I'm you, I give this one last try, as follows:

You lay out the boundaries very clearly - list all the changes you require. Cite her past EAs as support. Hold your ground hard. Then tell her the next violation will be her last as your wife. 

Your kids might want you guys to be together, but you said yourself they feel it. The kids will be fine, probably even better off, without this tension between their parents, even if that means splitting time.

Good luck.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Given that she had an affair, you're not out of line. At least she told you about it that same day.

Aside from such special circumstances, I have no problem with my wife or SO - or myself - having lunch with a friend or coworker of the opposite sex. I have done so often in the past, and my SOs never had a problem with it either. One woman in particular I had lunch with about once a month. When her husband had a business trip to Hong Kong, I arranged for him to meet my girlfriend who lived there to show him around - and I'd never met him in person. There were never any problems or inappropriate behavior.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> Your wife, though, also has other problems. Borderline Personality Disorder maybe? She seems completely narcissistic and unable to think about anyone but herself. This pattern appears it will never change.


:iagree:

It really seems like your wife has some larger issues than just her demonstrably piss-poor boundaries. There are clearly some serious emotional problems there. From what you describe, she seems to have a history of displaying strong traits one of the Cluster B personality disorders. A firm conversation about boundaries isn't going to fix that. You need to decide what you're going to do - have a real, actionable, plan in place - when (not if, when) she pulls her next stunt. 

I'm really sorry.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

C, clothes on the back porch need to be for all the other stuff she is doing now.
We understand from the kids view point, but if dad is not healthy and happy, it's better to split.

As for the lunch, maybe she was picking up a few pointers on covering her tracks on the net, so she can contact guys again.
The only reason she mentioned it is cause she was seen, and knew you would find out.
Motive my man, motive is readying to rev up her affairs.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think you can be a hell of a lot better...well at the very least happier father with out this toxic partner you call a wife.

I have a gut feeling, that if you did bug her car or any other place she takes calls, you might find out this is more then emotional cheating and a lot more physical cheating then you care to admit.

Funny thing about small towns...even though ever body knows every body...when it come to some one sleeping around folks seem to mind their own business. Maybe I'm wrong...

I can remember a thread were the couple was in a small down and every one knew the wife was sleeping around except the husband.

My point is you might want to do some investigation and find validation that she really needs help or to pull the trigger on a divorce.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Camby said:


> No idea why she would pay. The guy is a computer tech so he probably makes three times her salary. I don't understand it either and she is trying to justify it by saying it is not big deal.


It was made a big deal by her own actions concerning a previous EA. The trust has not been earned back. Not telling you does not grow trust. It does anything but. You don't have to tolerate it.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Camby said:


> I agree. I would say that a year ago I had 100% trust in her and trusted her more than probably 99% of the husbands out there. But she took complete advantage of me multiple times and now I don't trust her at all. She sees the lack of trust as my problem and doesn't accept the responsibility that she is the cause. I suspect she doesn't care if I trust her or not. I doubt she will ever realize what she had with our relationship until I'm gone.


Sometimes you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. You might be at this point.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Just "lunch," huh?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

thummper said:


> Just "lunch," huh?


Anyone ever see the ad for that matchmaking service called It's Just Lunch? It shows really hot, professional people meeting up for lunch through this service. I've seen this in airline mags.

I wonder how many married people use this service.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Camby said:


> I'll check it out now. We were watching the marriage today videos online but she stopped that a long time ago. She doesn't show any sincere interest in changing her ways to save the family.


 If that's the case then it's up to you to rattle her cage and let her know that her behavior, attitude, and lack of respect sucks big time and you putting her on notice right now and if she doesn't wise up, get help, and start acting like a wife, mother and responsible woman, she going to find out real quick that what she once had will be gone and her new life will be far different from the one she now knows.

And you have to stop taking steps backwards, draw a line in the sand and let her know that your not putting up with her ignorance any longer and do it in a way that she FULLY UNDERSTANDS that she's got one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave and any more of her blatant lack of respect will be the end of the marriage.

 It's up to you. Either make your stand and stay with it or it will get worse.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It is not, of necessity, wrong for someone to have lunch with a co-worker of the oposite sex.

But with your wife's history as a cheater it is most definitely wrong for her to have a lunch with a co-worker of the oposite sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Since no one really addressed it, put away the white knight shield and armor. Just because someone has problems, it doesn't mean you let them abuse you and drag you down as well. I'm willing to bet your mental stability is failing, your health is failing, your stress is rising and your kids are suffering because you feel guilty. You feel bad because she has depression and trauma so, leaving her would be wrong. I'm nto saying not to try to save the marriage, but if she doesn't care don't go down with the ship becauseyou have children.

If you have to cut ties, so be it. You shouldn't spend the rest of your life cleaning up another person's mess. I had a friend die, IMO, from chasing around his sick, cheating unrepentant wife. So, maybe I am jaded.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

My WW started with an EA then it went to PA after meeting for lunch each week. Camby you need to shut this down hard, now! However you decide to shut it down is your choice but if I had known about the lunches I would have had an attorney at the ready. Nothing good will come from your wife having lunches with the opposite sex. I know this only too well now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WatchmansMoon (Mar 6, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> It is not, of necessity, wrong for someone to have lunch with a co-worker of the oposite sex._Posted via Mobile Device_


I wouldn't so much agree with this, in that I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to have lunch with the opposite sex if you're married to someone else. Honestly, even if it's a work related lunch, I would challenge the idea that your employers would require it. Bring someone else along if you must meet. This is just general respect and boundaries for any marriage and spouse. 

That said, your wife doesn't appear to respect any boundaries that she should have been forced to hold to from the last affair since. She's not even sticking to seeing a counselor. What promises has she made that she's keeping since the last known affair? There's a book called Love Must Be Tough, that you should consider reading. I appreciate that you love her, which is right, but you have to be tough too, not just loving. You may only allow you and your children to be further hurt otherwise. HUGS to you. I'm so sorry.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Cheaters will cheat, lunch or otherwise. 

If two coworkers want to boink they are going to do it regardless of whether they go to lunch or not.

They spend 8/9 hours a day together. So that is ok but not an extra hour for lunch?

It's got nothing to do with lunch but rather the trustworthiness of the parties involved.

As I said earlier, OP has a right for concern given wife's history. The lunch itself isn't the problem as much as her failure to respect his boundaries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Camby said:


> She considers it no big deal even though it has destroyed my kids


I'm just curious, I hear this phrase a lot, "it has, it will, it did" DESTROY my kids. Can you elaborate?


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Acoa said:


> The boundaries shouldn't be artificial. One should care enough and respect their mate enough to not have friendships that even hint at being improper. And in this case sharing a private lunch with with someone of the opposite sex especially after an ea hints that she is working on developing her next affair partner. Not proper, not at all.


:iagree:

The boundaries I have don't feel artificial at all. It's really just what I do without thinking about it. I get along with the men I work with, whether working on a project or sharing laughs. I just have no need or want to share such times outside the office. 

I think it would feel awkward to go out for 1:1 lunch with a guy from work, IMO. Just not who I am. Someone who is fresh off an EA has zero business doing this and I can only surmise this WW is on the hunt again .


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> :iagree:
> 
> The boundaries I have don't feel artificial at all. It's really just what I do without thinking about it. I get along with the men I work with, whether working on a project or sharing laughs. I just have no need or want to share such times outside the office.
> 
> I think it would feel awkward to go out for 1:1 lunch with a guy from work, IMO. Just not who I am. Someone who is fresh off an EA has zero business doing this and I can only surmise this WW is on the hunt again .


I'm the same TTR. I feel odd going to lunch 1:1 with a woman. I was in sales and part of that was going to lunch with the customer. Sometimes a woman. Most times I preferred to bring the lunch to them and eat together in their office which usually had others around. And like you, I have my laughs and share some family funny stuff that happens with women I work with. Other than than, I have no desire to do any activity outside the office with them. I see them all day. I want to see my W and family when not at work. 

And agree, fresh off an EA does not need to be dinning with anyone but their H and family.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Camby. define in GENERIC terms what the EA entailed.

"Emotional bonding" or "She started with bikini pics that eventually led to nudes and dirty talk" is sufficient. Not looking for a play by play.

How much was he directly feeding her self esteem?

Read the top link in my signature for how to monitor should you feel necessary.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

I know I'm in the minority here, but I regularly have lunch with women, and my wife regularly has lunch with men. Co-workers, friends, etc. 

Some of it is work related - I certainly would not want to discriminate against female employees by never inviting them to lunch when I invite male employees.

Even recreation is fine - my wife goes to the opera with male friends because I don't like the opera and she likes the company. I go to movies that my wife doesn't want to see with friends - some male, some female. 

I trust her. She trusts me. If the weren't true I'd leave - no point in being married to someone you can't trust.


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

Your description of her screams borderline personality disorder to me.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Camby said:


> Am I out of line on this issue?


No, you are not.

Lunch with an opposite sex coworker? Normally, and if its not a regular occurrence, it shouldn't be a problem.

But once she has proven herself unfaithful, if she had a brain in her head she wouldn't even think about having lunch with another man. She F'd that up.

And she refuses to talk about boundaries? Probably because she doesn't want boundaries. Doesn't sound like a remorseful WS to me.

I am predicting this isn't going to be a good life for you if you stay with such an entitled, pretend to do no wrong wife.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I regularly have lunch with women, and my wife regularly has lunch with men. Co-workers, friends, etc.
> 
> Some of it is work related - I certainly would not want to discriminate against female employees by never inviting them to lunch when I invite male employees.
> 
> ...


I try to stay in groups for work reasons. 

One on one is very different than with multiple people.

One on one to me is too much like a date. 

There have been times, like at the airport I do have lunch and even drinks with female colleagues. Otherwise I make a point of being in a group.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Camby. define in GENERIC terms what the EA entailed.
> 
> "Emotional bonding" or "She started with bikini pics that eventually led to nudes and dirty talk" is sufficient. Not looking for a play by play.
> 
> ...


Calling and texting all hours of the night, talking to him about leaving me, about our sex life, going out on a date with him for drinks when she was supposed to be going to a friends funeral, emailing him, going to lunch with him after a motorcycle ride. I blame myself for that one, I trusted her too much and I thought the guy was much older, a friend of the family, and it wouldn't be a big deal. I should've known better. She told me four times she would stop and continued to do so behind my back.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

changedbeliefs said:


> I'm just curious, I hear this phrase a lot, "it has, it will, it did" DESTROY my kids. Can you elaborate?


My kids just want a regular family, mom and dad, no drama, family events, going out, having a good time. 

She wants drama, fighting, emotional abuse, and it's draining all of us.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Camby said:


> My kids just want a regular family, mom and dad, no drama, family events, going out, having a good time.
> 
> She wants drama, fighting, emotional abuse, and it's draining all of us.


Well dad, it looks like you need to do what you can for the benefit of your children. But a marriage takes two.

It seems she is looking for someone to replace you or at least to eat some cake.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You saw proof none of these meet ups were not hook ups?

Eesh. Almost straight forward player 101.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Camby said:


> My kids just want a regular family, mom and dad, no drama, family events, going out, having a good time.
> 
> She wants drama, fighting, emotional abuse, and it's draining all of us.


Perhaps your next wife may be what your looking for but brother this one ain't it and something tells me she will never be....time to move on for your sanity and for the sake of your children....someone has to be the responsible adult in the family.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

roostr said:


> I really think that it depends who it is. Some guys are simply no threat at all, some are. They know who they are and your wife certainly knows. But unless I knew who it was I'd say uh uh.
> 
> Just sayin, there are a few women I work with that would be no threat at all to my wife if I had lunch with them. On the other hand, I know a few who I know would absolutely be a threat. Thats why it depends.


I would think the more relevant facts are that she has already proven she has crappy boundaries in this area, and she hasn't even begun to earn trust, and she's already testing his boundaries.

Of course, to quote Jerry Seinfeld, "I'm pretty sure enforcing the boundary is the most important part of the boundary".

And what can you do? Stamp your feet and throw a fit? Doesn't usually even work for two-year-olds. Hold your breath until you turn blue? Never even met a stubborn and rebellious 9-year-old capable of pulling that one off 

Move on? Oh yeah, you can do that. 

"You Just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy

...

Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free ", Paul Simon


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Cam don't be caught in the trap where you and your kids want a regular family, mom and dad, no drama, family events, going out, having a good time all the while hoping she is going to come to her senses, straighten up and fly right. Unless you make it so, it ain't gonna happen my man. This chick doesn't have any respect for you and likely has little interest in you and what you want. Things like that never improve and only get worse. When a woman gripes, complains, fights, emotional abuses you, and sees other men, it means she hates being stuck with you. 
Remember the biggest fallacy said is, "I need to overlook her actions and keep the family together for the kids sake". You ain't fooling the kids by play acting you're June and Ward Cleaver. By your own admission, they are being emotionally abused by her nonsense. Besides, you may look the other way regarding her abuse but rest assured she's not.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I regularly have lunch with women, and my wife regularly has lunch with men. Co-workers, friends, etc.
> 
> Some of it is work related - I certainly would not want to discriminate against female employees by never inviting them to lunch when I invite male employees.
> 
> ...


It isn't a matter of trust where I am/ where my boundaries are concerned, my WS knows he can trust me around other men. It isn't as though I think, "I must maintain these specific boundaries lest an affair happen, should I go to a 1:1 lunch/movie/the opera/or whatever with a guy." I personally just have no interest in hanging out with men one on one who aren't, for example, my husband or my two adult sons. It just wouldn't occur to me to do otherwise. 

Honestly, after working 40-50 hours a week, taking care of house/yard, three dogs, and engaging in hobbies/interests when possible, we barely have enough time, some weeks, to scratch out anything resembling a social life with either gender, lol.

At any rate, given the situation the OP is justified in feeling the way he does and his WW doesn't sound remorseful whatsoever. She should be more concerned with making her BS comfortable, not finding more ways to make him suspicious of what she's_ really _doing throughout the work day.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> It isn't a matter of trust where I am/ where my boundaries are concerned, my WS knows he can trust me around other men. It isn't as though I think, "I must maintain these specific boundaries lest an affair happen, should I go to a 1:1 lunch/movie/the opera/or whatever with a guy." I personally just have no interest in hanging out with men one on one who aren't, for example, my husband or my two adult sons. It just wouldn't occur to me to do otherwise.
> 
> Honestly, after working 40-50 hours a week, taking care of house/yard, three dogs, and engaging in hobbies/interests when possible, we barely have enough time, some weeks, to scratch out anything resembling a social life with either gender, lol.
> 
> At any rate, given the situation the OP is justified in feeling the way he does and his WW doesn't sound remorseful whatsoever. She should be more concerned with making her BS comfortable, not finding more ways to make him suspicious of what she's_ really _doing throughout the work day.


You have touched on something here. When life gets busy and spouses no longer find time for each other or use their time together taking out frustrations that's pretty much the recipe for an affair, if you are prone to that sort of thing. That at least is as kindly as I can look at what my wife did and she was the one with no time and only frustrations.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> You have touched on something here. When life gets busy and spouses no longer find time for each other or use their time together taking out frustrations that's pretty much the recipe for an affair, if you are prone to that sort of thing. That at least is as kindly as I can look at what my wife did and she was the one with no time and only frustrations.


You make a valid point but no, WS and I make a concerted effort to spend time together, despite both having busy schedules. Whether that means a workday lunch, a fun event over the weekend, or regular vacations. 

Right now we're actually on vacation a few states away from home, hanging out in our room relaxing after being out all day :smthumbup:.

Frustrations in life are inevitable but over the years we've gotten better about not taking them out on each other.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> You make a value point but no, WS and I make a concerted effort to spend time together, despite both having busy schedules. Whether that means a workday lunch, a fun event over the weekend, or regular vacations.
> 
> Right now we're actually on vacation a few states away from home, hanging out in our room relaxing after being out all day :smthumbup:.
> 
> Frustrations in life are inevitable but over the years we've gotten better about not taking them out on each other.


Well good luck to you both. Obviously the affair bs cannot continue.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Cheaters will cheat, lunch or otherwise.
> 
> If two coworkers want to boink they are going to do it regardless of whether they go to lunch or not.
> 
> ...


Phillyguy13

Each lunch, dinner, meeting for drinks, etc etc is a date to the cheaters. This is how it became a PA for my wife. WW's AP would buy her lunch and to the both of them they were on a date. So the EA transitioned to a PA fairly easily after having these lunch dates. I'm not trying to be offensive here but your wife went on a dinner date and sexted a few hours later. The transition from the dinner date to sexting was easily blurred by your wife. Boundaries get crossed and the next thing the WS says is I didn't go looking for an affair it just happened. My WW spouse refuses to now go to lunch unless both sexes are there and in a group setting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Cheaters will cheat, lunch or otherwise.
> 
> If two coworkers want to boink they are going to do it regardless of whether they go to lunch or not.
> 
> ...


That sounds great but this reminds me of that insurance commercial. You know where they tell that lady it just doesn't work that way. Someone trustworthy would be having lunches with someone else this way. Just saying trust me is not a boundary.

Instigation
Isolation
Escalation

Those hours of work do count. However, lunch becomes a date. It increases intimacy. I know folks, especially those who have been netrayed do not want to give affairs any legitimacy HOWEVER while that can be very much a fantasy, in practice the mating ritual stays much the same as it did when you dated your spouse or anyone else that you had a relationship with. You bond emotionally, start thinking in romantic terms and it can turn sexual. Dating is part of this.

Saying someone who is going to cheat will cheat is nonsense. It does not work that way for most people. Most people who fall into affairs have poor boundaries and have no intent to cheat. Many of these are high character people. To say know is just being in denial but mostly it is because of naiveté. Not understanding EAs. 

Can lunch be innocent ... maybe. How does one tell? intentions do not tell us. Character does not tell us. Perhaps measuring brain chemicals could. But what happens is that people think they are just fond of the other person and the person they are really in denail with is themselves. They feel great around the other person. They are having needs met. But to them, they are not doing anything wrong. This is ok. They are just friends. 

Indeed at some point they start hiding this stuff. But they justify it. Others might not understand. By this time they have fallen out of love with their partner and in love with the AP. Yeah more complex than this simple example but close enough. People can say people with high character would not do this until they are blue in the face. Having high character is essential. But having a clue is critical as well. Having solid boundaries. Not dating another person.

So is it ok to go hang out at that other persons apartment? Go to movies with them. Go drinking with them? Is dinner ok? Go on trips with them. I am just trying to see where the boundary is.

One lunch should not kill a marriage. But where do you draw the line?


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

How do you know it was only an ea? I doubt it myself, they met up several times and didn't do anything physical? ?? She discussed leaving you??? Come on get your head out of the sand


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

That's my point. My wife is no longer allowed to go on one on one opposite sex meals, or drinks or anything else. There is now a marker of inappropriate behavior. Boundary established. 

There are many people who can go to lunch with an opposite sex coworker and it not leading anywhere to an affair. Note that is NOT the case for OP And his wife here.

But to outright forbid a spouse with no history of infidelity from having a meal with a coworker sounds medieval to me. It's not a date. It's only a date of they are thinking it's a date and they get to that point by spending 40 hours of work together. So yeah where do you draw the boundary, do you move it the other way? No school or work with the opposite sex? No going to church if men are there? Or the mall?

Lunch isn't the problem. A spouse with poor morals is the problem. She will find a way to cheat if she wants to. Just my opinion, but cheaters make the lunch a date, the lunch is a vehicle of convenience for the cheaters, making it easier for coworkers to cheat, but as I said if they are going to cheat they will find a way.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Thanks, cheaters. You've made lunch, everything much harder to deal with because you can't be responsible, and honor your vows.

Yep, my wife's crap (20 yrs ago) started on a lunch outing. Fuuck. Had another huge meltdown over it last night because of this thread.


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## Camby (Aug 29, 2014)

Forest said:


> Thanks, cheaters. You've made lunch, everything much harder to deal with because you can't be responsible, and honor your vows.
> 
> Yep, my wife's crap (20 yrs ago) started on a lunch outing. Fuuck. Had another huge meltdown over it last night because of this thread.


Trying to get past it is the most difficult part. It seems things will be going good for a while and suddenly the trigger is pulled and all the same feelings come flooding back like it just happened.


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## Haiku (Apr 9, 2014)

Camby - I'm sorry you're here and the experiences you're having. It must be hard.

I hesitate to give advice but want to briefly share what I've learned from my experiences. Think it over and decide for yourself if there's any value for you. 

Coming to terms with infidelity and the breakdown of a marriage was a process. The reasons for the infidelity isn't always clear and will likely never be. Determining how to address the infidelity (and why it took me a long time to do so) was also a process. 

Nothing came quick or easy.

I got into therapy right away. This was THE key for me. I could not make well reasoned decisions on how to deal with my marital problems until I understood myself a little better first. 

It didn't take long before the therapy helped me to see things more clearly. 

I finally learned about boundries, ego boundries, control, and pain management. 

Boundries and control, in my experience, has nothing to do with my spouse. They are about me. 

1. I can't control the behavior of others, but I have complete control over what I will tolerate. 

2. I thought hard and long about what those boundries were. I was confident and comfortable they were reasonable and fair. They aren't the same for every marriage/situation. They are mine. Not my spouses or anyone from this community. Mine. I learned that it was okay to take back control of what I tolerate. 

3. Having boundries and taking back the control of my life doesn't mean I have to be mean. I can still be caring, considerate, and compassionate. I can still be me. But I do not need to compromise my boundries. 

4. In my case it ended in divorce. It didn't feel good. The process hurt. Good days mixed with bad. But I realized that sometimes pain is involved in doing the right thing. The pain means I'm human. The pain does not mean I'm doing the wrong thing. 

5. I detest the chic word "closure." I'm not trying to be semantic at all but I just don't believe in it, and time does not heal any wounds. Time only helps the pain become more tolerable. 

The process of coming to understand and accept those five points made all the difference in the world for me. I am still learning.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> There are many people who can go to lunch with an opposite sex coworker and it not leading anywhere to an affair. Note that is NOT the case for OP And his wife here.


Many people can collect, count, and handle money but, as a banker, you likely wouldn't want a person who had sticky fingers in the past collecting, counting and handling money. What they did in the past is a good indication of what they are capable of doing in the future.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Forest

Sorry bro, I had the same triggers when I found this thread. The whole mess came flooding back as I recalled on d-day that they were having lunch together almost three times a week. Restaurants, forest preserves anywhere they could have their little "date". This thread is useful for BS but also a huge trigger. Now if I could incorporate trigger and OM together... Hmmm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

My wife dining or lunching with another man would make me VERY unfomfortable! I wouldn't like it one bit. From what I've read on this and other sites like it, these "innocent" meetings too often lead to meetings that are definitely NOT innocent. Too much temptation for me to be comfortable with it. issed:


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening PyillyGuy13
how do you enforce this boundary? What do / would you do if she breaks it?



PhillyGuy13 said:


> That's my point. My wife is no longer allowed to go on one on one opposite sex meals, or drinks or anything else. There is now a marker of inappropriate behavior. Boundary established.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening PyillyGuy13
> how do you enforce this boundary? What do / would you do if she breaks it?


Kick her to the curb.

My discussions with her have always been there is zero tolerance for this type behavior going forward. To be clear, this has been re emphasized after recent events.

She knows where I stand and she is welcome to test me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Since no one really addressed it, put away the white knight shield and armor. Just because someone has problems, it doesn't mean you let them abuse you and drag you down as well. I'm willing to bet your mental stability is failing, your health is failing, your stress is rising and your kids are suffering because you feel guilty. You feel bad because she has depression and trauma so, leaving her would be wrong. I'm nto saying not to try to save the marriage, but if she doesn't care don't go down with the ship becauseyou have children.
> 
> If you have to cut ties, so be it. You shouldn't spend the rest of your life cleaning up another person's mess. I had a friend die, IMO, from chasing around his sick, cheating unrepentant wife. So, maybe I am jaded.


:iagree:
You are not Jaded Philly. 
OP, what are you afraid of? In my case, I was afraid of never finding someone to love me as much as my ex. Not true. He never truly loved, only loved himself. 

Analyze your fears, how to face them, and get rid of them. Then, you will find how deplorable your wife's behavior is towards you and your children.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon PhillyGuy13
If you can't trust her, why not kick her to the curb now and find someone you can trust?

She's giving you good reason not to trust, why wait until she does something else wrong?




PhillyGuy13 said:


> Kick her to the curb.
> 
> My discussions with her have always been there is zero tolerance for this type behavior going forward. To be clear, this has been re emphasized after recent events.
> 
> ...


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Camby said:


> My kids just want a regular family, mom and dad, no drama, family events, going out, having a good time.
> 
> She wants drama, fighting, emotional abuse, and it's draining all of us.


With all due respect, that response doesn't add any information about whether or how they are "destroyed." It's not like your kids lived an entire life in a, what you call, "normal family," and now have this one to compare it to, and further, are "destroyed" at the lackings of it.

My question was loaded, I'll admit. I think people are copping out when they try to claim how much they children are/will be destroyed by a divorce, bad marriage, whatever. It's the images and wishes that THE ADULTS have in their mind, the life they were "supposed to have," that is destroyed. The kids have a blank slate, they don't have pre-conceived notions of life, they're winging all of it as they go. EVERY situation has the ability to go forward positively. I propose, take a group of people you consider "successful" - executives at a big company, small business owners, whatever. Close your eyes and toss a tennis ball into that crowd, and you'll hit someone who is the product of divorced parents. They weren't "destroyed," they adapted, and we all have to adapt to a hundred different things throughout our lifetime that may not be what they were "supposed to be." Parents splitting up is no different.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Time to move on without her.

She does not respect you, she is not trying.

How would she feel if the roles were reversed?


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

Camby, 

I went though a similar issue, poor boundaries, lack of respect, and dealing with several EA's and finally a PA that were "just friends". 
I found when I tried to step it up and be a better man, she got worse and pushed away more. When I stepped back or did "the 180" as we call it here on TAM, she chased. Push/Pull, she is always the victim, picks fights out of the blue....sound familiar? Time to check out the mental health/personality disorder section here on TAM. 
If she will not go to counseling or has quit counseling she is not repairable and is a lost cause. Your best bet is to move on. 
I did, and despite the fact I'm basically starting over from zero now, it's still the best move I could make.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Camby said:


> Calling and texting all hours of the night, talking to him about leaving me, about our sex life, going out on a date with him for drinks when she was supposed to be going to a friends funeral, emailing him, going to lunch with him after a motorcycle ride. I blame myself for that one, I trusted her too much and I thought the guy was much older, a friend of the family, and it wouldn't be a big deal. I should've known better. *She told me four times she would stop and continued to do so behind my back*.


Can't trust her. 

A marriage without trust is doomed.

Sorry bro, but if you stay with her, you can pretty much bank on more of the same.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Camby said:


> My wife was recently involved in a long term emotional affair with another man. It has been about two months since they last talked but I am still dealing with the pain every minute.
> 
> Last week she went out to lunch with a male co-worker. It was just the two of them. She bought lunch even though she consistently says that she doesn't have any money. She never bothered to call me and told me about it that night.
> 
> She doesn't think that she did anything wrong, however I feel it is highly inappropriate for a married woman to go to lunch with some of the opposite sex. Especially as she has refused to talk to me about what she considers acceptable boundaries in a relationship. Am I out of line on this issue?


This is of course a boundary issue. 

Having lunch with an opposite sex co-worker, even without her prior EA, would cross a marital boundary for a lot of married couples.

But for a wife that's had a prior EA. *Unacceptable.*

Ideally you would have already had the discussion about boundaries with her after her EA. If she refused to talk about them; *Unacceptable*. If she refuses to talk about them now; you guessed it.


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## CluelessWif (Jun 20, 2014)

Ah, your question is loaded. Is it appropriate for a woman to have contacts of both genders, and share a meal with them, if your relationship has trust. I can have lunch with whomever I please, but I have not given my husband a reason to doubt me in fifteen years.

It depends on your relationship. If you have legitimate concerns (you do) and she is not respecting you (she is not) then you need to do what is best for you and your kids.

If she doesn't respect you and empathize with the pain she caused then you don't have a marriage, you are in emotional bondage.


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## hf2011 (Mar 21, 2011)

Camby - please read what Haiku as written slowly because it's the way you suffer least. I went through the same and his words are wise.

You will suffer for some period, but you will feel better afterwards, you will be happier and your children will understand and also be happier too.

The decisions you make are your own responsibility as your wife are hers. She made a decision to cheat and she's perfectly happy with that situation. But you can choose to be free to look for nicer women, with values, moral and beauty. Nobody's perfect, but you can believe that there are better person's out there than your wife.

Have some confidence in your self. You will make it just fine. Go out, enjoy your friends company. Life is to be enjoyed, it's not a punishment.

Regards


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## Tasty (Mar 3, 2014)

I think your wife has behaved inappropriately, and I dare say, suspiciously. It is highly probable a lot has gone on with those men (or some other yet-unknown men) that is still under wraps. You should take a stand now and agree on what is acceptable or not in this marriage. If this is not done, I fear a lot more of these may occur and you and the kids will be the worse for it.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Tasty said:


> I think your wife has behaved inappropriately, and I dare say, suspiciously. It is highly probable a lot has gone on with those men (or some other yet-unknown men) that is still under wraps. You should take a stand now and agree on what is acceptable or not in this marriage. If this is not done, I fear a lot more of these may occur and you and the kids will be the worse for it.


:iagree:

Also, whether or not these interactions are innocent, she lost the privilege to be trusted alone with a man after she got caught cheating. She F'd that up and shouldn't expect to be able to be alone with another man and not raise a red flag to her husband. 

If she respects her husband and is truly remorseful for what she has done, she will avoid situations of being alone with other men.
But since she doesn't, IMO, she isn't remorseful and doesn't respect her husband. I think he needs to get rid of her.


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## ngrrsn (Jul 15, 2011)

I noticed you said her "affair" was an emotional affair. Not an affair in the normal sense as in sexual. And, she didn't leave you for another man...so that says something. It also seems, on the surface at least, you are very controlling. Why did she seek an "emotional" affair? What underlying cause/effect are involved in your relationship? Did, as a couple, you seek counseling? There are too many other questions here to formulate an appropriate response to your question about the appropriateness of her lunch with a coworker. I have been married 45 years. I love my wife, and I trust her and visa versa. An "emotional" affair would not threaten our relationship, but would probably result in us sitting down together or with a professional to figure out what was missing or damaging our relationship. She has traveled to other states on business with other men, and I to other places with women --- both married and single. She goes to lunches with coworkers. She doesn't report to me all her daily activities or engagements...nor should she need to. She is part of me, and yet she is herself and independent and free to be herself. On the surface I disagree with those who say you are NOT out of line...I believe you are. You need counseling...both of you. And you need to learn how to communicate and listen. At the rate you are going, your relationship is very weak. I wish you peace and seriously, seek some professional help!


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Lunch with OS parties depends on intent and what's on the menu.


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