# It's a slow and steady fall from love



## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Is my life really that bad. 

I've been asking myself that ever since I made the decision to invest in someone and help them to help me have a better life.

Today I answered that question with a Yes! 

We've been together for 12 years and married for 5 now. Have 2 kids, 4 and 1 and it may as well be a sexless marriage. 

The beginning was insane, daily or close to it for the first 3 years. Things start to taper off to 2-3 times a week then once a week to every couple weeks by year 10. Here we are at year 12 and if I beg and ask enough.. every 6 months. The oral tapered then stopped 3 years ago. There has been no 'intimate' touch from her in 2 years now. No hugs, no roll over in bed and hold me, no hand holding in public anymore. Basically all touch is gone. 

The last time we had sex (3 weeks ago) she wouldn't kiss me (slow decline like everything else) and I notice she always keeps her eyes closed the entire time now. We used eye contact for years and now she won't even look at me. I have always been a generous lover and always meet her needs. She's very orgasmic and has never had a problem reaching multiple O's in a night. She still does and the sex is always great when we do have it. 

We have talked about this lack of sex and intimacy many times over the years as we have good communication. I have told her many times I need touch and the desire to be needed. She understands her lack of desire and after the kids, says she just doesn't think about sex like she used to and blames the kids, doesn't feel in the mood, has a headache, work, life, money, groceries, bills, cranky-co-workers, dead flowers in the garden.. blah blah blah..

We talk and mend and end up in bed and things look good for a week... then it's back to normal life filled with masturbation depression and anger over why she won't touch me but showers our kids with love, attention and gifts. (I've thrown out more toys in the last 4 years than some kids get in their first 10!) She brought the kids into our bed from the beginning. (don't bother addressing this as I've been down all the roads about it) I've been working on getting the 4 yr out of our bed for the last 2 years with minimal to no help from her. He's usually on the floor in the mornings or sneaks in during the night. The 1yr old is usually in the bed and not the crib when I goto bed. This is a major issue with me after the difficulty with the older and has been the focus of hundreds of discussions but it's a moral belief and she won't budge on it. She's an only child and her mom spoiled her rotten with attention and love so its the only way she knows how to mother so I can't fault her for that.

The rest of our lives and marriage are perfect.. or at least to me they are. She has a great job that lets her work 3 days a week, I run a small business from home and watch the kids. We have never had a fight as we talk it out. We never belittle or make the other feel less of a person. We help each other and do equal work around the house. All of our dating and married friends ask us for advice as we have the best marriage they've ever seen. 

Well if it's so good.. then why aren't we having sex... !!!

We have no physical issues to stop us, I'm 40 and she's 37. We both had 50+ prior partners and have been sexually active since our teens. We both had high sex drives, broke our first bed and used every position imaginable. The last time we did anything other than me doing all the work on top.. 3 yrs ago. 

She's gained some weight after the kids and I've lost 50 lbs TWICE! I can tip the scales at 260 and 2 months later drop it all and be 200. I can do this easily.. she has trouble loosing a single lb and has tried every singe fad or other diet (about to buy the new pink diet and waste another $80 bucks when all she has to do is STOP EATING AND EXERCISE! 

Today I told her she's fat.. yep I sure did. I'm tired of hearing you complain for 8 years about your weight and doing nothing about it. If you don't like your body. Get off your ass and walk or something.. jebus! 

Today was the first time in 10 yrs that I didn't say I love you to her.. and I don't plan to anymore. 

Today was the first day that I realized my marriage isn't what everyone thinks it to be. 

Today I learned that I'm not the only one who's wife is reaping all the benefits of being married w/out having to pay the piper. 

Today is the first day of healing for me.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

*Today was the first time in 10 yrs that I didn't say I love you to her.. and I don't plan to anymore. 

Today was the first day that I realized my marriage isn't what everyone thinks it to be. 

Today I learned that I'm not the only one who's wife is reaping all the benefits of being married w/out having to pay the piper. 

Today is the first day of healing for me*
I wouldnt advise you to give up so quickly. You seem to be new here and I think you should wait for doing something drastic till you hear advice from people like us who may have been through it. Have you been to counselling. You complain about her weight that doesnt make her feel good and could be the very reason you have problems.
* She understands her lack of desire and after the kids, says she just doesn't think about sex like she used to and blames the kids, doesn't feel in the mood, has a headache, work, life, money, groceries, bills, cranky-co-workers, dead flowers in the garden.. blah blah blah..*
That sounds like she doesnt want you. Maybe you should start slowly, offer to do it in the dark etc. Dont watch her every movement. Giver her a chance to do it without being 'supervised'.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

It could be worse... have you read my threads? 

Yours in not a great marriage, but its better than mine. My current marriage makes me want to run back to my other marriage, it wasnt bad at all compared to this. Some days I consider it alot. My son however, really loves his stepdad.

I do have to say, having been in a more normal marriage prior to this one, I do remember what it was like trying to get pregnant, have babies, and raise them. Its like a mom goes into neutral mode for a little bit and doesnt think about sex and stuff. Some do, some are lucky to have hormonal BALANCE and still want sex and intimacy. Some have situations that are very supportive and conducive to continuing relations. I just remember not thinking about it and thinking it was ok to not think about it. We were so ok knowing we werent having sex with each other that we opened up the idea of open marriage... neither of us did, but wow, talk about communication skills and acceptance of each other. Sounds like you have that in your marriage. maybe those many years you had with the hot sex was just a phase in your marriage and now its in a lull... you still do infrequent as it may be. 4 and 1... your wife is still in lala land with sleep deprivation, feeling totally unappreciated, overwhelmed, and quite literally spent with nothing left. Its like a kid fog... I see many moms at school who are in it... and they thrive on doing all these things with their kids and the husbands are like in the corner sucking their thumb, or being super dad. 

Dont know the answer, but, it looks better from my perspective than it does from your frustrated one. I would hate to see you let the frustration get the better of you so you continue to not be able to see what you do have.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm not giving up anything yet, just in an observation stage as I figure out my next move.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I find my self asking the same question, is my life really that bad and i come with the same answer everything.YES.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

It's been a couple weeks now and I wish I had some good news. We've talked lots these weeks. We spoke deeply about how this is making me feel, what i'm missing emotionally and physically and how her lack of intimacy is hurting and angering me. 

She was receptive open to discussion. Lately she feels in a bout of depression due to life and things she can't control getting the best of her. Life is hard right now, work has been slow for me and the money has been lower than past years putting a burden on us. She thinks about it all to much and she feels overwhelmed. I explained that this is now and what you are feeling now can't explain for the last 5 years of your lack of intimacy. That discussion carried for an hour during a car ride and things got sorted somewhat.

The I loves you started back up and she's been making an effort although they don't feel from the heart, more a just to make me happy kinda thing. It's been a good week. i haven't made any comments nor advances hinting I want sex. It's been over a month, well 5 weeks now since we'd had sex and she even hinted after i mentioned some food items I was getting the other night might lead to, you know what'.. I replied with heartburn jokingly (its the right answer either way honestly..LOL)

Yesterday was a good day, filled with happy kids and a happy wife. We did things, went out and had fun. The day was ripe with love. Kisses here and there and some I love yous. It carried into dinner and bath/book time. I came to bed early and... 

I'ts 745 on a sunday morning and I've got the rejected blues. I'm angry, upset and very soon the kids will be up and I'll have to jump into daddy mode. 

Last night she didn't initiate anything nor even try.. just did her I'm here if you really want to have sex thing she does. I've learned to hate that move. lays flat on her back and turns her head the other way as i initiate foreplay. 
I rubber her belly a little and she rolled over to face me. I rubbed her back and legs a bit and she gave off the OK mood but I needed to feel wanted to so I kept slacking on giving attention to her waiting for her to give me some. I moved to force her to move twords me but nothing more than a leg over mine could get her to even rub a leg or move a hand.. 

All she had to do was touch me.. that's it.. just touch me! jesus is it that hard to pick up your arm and touch a guy.. reach out and TOUCH MEEE!! 

after an hour of this BS I said screw it so I finally rolled enough and went into my sleeping position. She rolled onto her back, classic move, and sighed with a bit of sarcasm laid on.. "I'm awake now.. do you want to have sex or what" and just laid on her back with the, if you want it.. then just do it ok so i can go back to sleep look. 

i rolled over and went to sleep.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your wife needs to lose weight. What have you doen to help her?

Do you take walks with her daily?


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Your wife needs to lose weight. What have you doen to help her?
> 
> Do you take walks with her daily?


It's more like what haven't I done to help her. You name the diet plan, she's done it. WE have done gyms, WE have walked since day 1.. SHE does nothing now and complains about it so now I do things. I run 3 days a week and I take walks with the kids. 

What she and the kids eat in this home are very healthy fresh foods. No starchy carbo loaded junk food as I'm a firm believer that diet and weight are controlled most by what and how much you eat. 

What she eats outside this house is up to her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> It's more like what haven't I done to help her. You name the diet plan, she's done it. WE have done gyms, WE have walked since day 1.. SHE does nothing now and complains about it so now I do things. I run 3 days a week and I take walks with the kids.
> 
> What she and the kids eat in this home are very healthy fresh foods. No starchy carbo loaded junk food as I'm a firm believer that diet and weight are controlled most by what and how much you eat.
> 
> What she eats outside this house is up to her.


Hm... without her to talk to it's hard to know what to say. My bet is that her body has not been responding to diet so she's given up.

Two things come to mind. I have developed a weight problem. I've tried every diet. I lose about 7 lbs on each and then can go weeks following them and not lose a lb. So for a long time I gave up.

Then this last summer I stayed with my brother a week to help him after surgery. He's following the Paleo diet. So he made me do it.. it's the only food he had in the house and he cooked all the meals. (I went out there to help him and he would not let me ... he had to do everything :lol And we walked 2-3 times a day for half an hour each walk. by the end of the week I was losing weight every day and I felt better than I had in years. I came back home and kept it up and was still losing weight ... like crazy.

Then I got a kidney stone that has been bothering me for weeks.. so I stopped walking.... long story short I'm going back on the Paleo and the walks... I have slipped back to the way I felt before. No energy etc. ... IT worked so I'm going back to it.

I'm suggesting this as it worked so well for me and I think your wife is having the same problem I did.. nothing really worked so we give up. The issue with women tends to be the development of insulin resistance. A person with insulin resistance has a very hard time losing weight.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Simply put.. Diets don't work.and the one you are on now will fail you like all the rest. 

Change the way you look at food for the REST OF YOUR LIFE... not the next 2 weeks or year to lose a few lbs. 

Nutritional intake and exercise to maintain metabolism are the key. 
Like I said earlier, I can drop weight easily with food diet alone, i however can't get below 200lbs w/out exercise. The metabolic rate needs a kick start to burn fat stores to drop to my target 175 lbs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> Simply put.. Diets don't work.and the one you are on now will fail you like all the rest.
> 
> Change the way you look at food for the REST OF YOUR LIFE... not the next 2 weeks or year to lose a few lbs.
> 
> ...


YOu misunderstand the word 'diet'. A diet is nothing more than an way to eat. A diet can be for life... do not assume that when a person uses that word they mean a few days of fad eating.
Men lose weight at a very much different rate than women do. And if there are things like insulin resistence going on it gets even worse.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Screenp2 said:


> It's been a couple weeks now and I wish I had some good news. We've talked lots these weeks. We spoke deeply about how this is making me feel, what i'm missing emotionally and physically and how her lack of intimacy is hurting and angering me.


I suggest you look at some resources like Married Man Sex Life for information. I suggest you stop talking to your wife about sex. She doesn't like it and she's not willing to change her behavior. So stop doing what doesn't work. You're wasting your time.

What might work is changing your behavior. Lose weight down to your 175lb target. Start asserting yourself in your relationship. The chances are good that she will become attracted to you again and be willing to put out. And if she doesn't, you'll be better suited for your next relationship.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> Last night she didn't initiate anything nor even try.. just did her I'm here if you really want to have sex thing she does. I've learned to hate that move. lays flat on her back and turns her head the other way as i initiate foreplay.
> I rubber her belly a little and she rolled over to face me. I rubbed her back and legs a bit and she gave off the OK mood but I needed to feel wanted to so I kept slacking on giving attention to her waiting for her to give me some. I moved to force her to move twords me but nothing more than a leg over mine could get her to even rub a leg or move a hand..
> 
> All she had to do was touch me.. that's it.. just touch me! jesus is it that hard to pick up your arm and touch a guy.. reach out and TOUCH MEEE!!
> ...


Well, is it possible that she wants to have sex in a different way - you know, with you really being more in charge of the situation?

If she won't put her hands on you, then take her hands and PUT them on you, TELL her what you want her to do, sweep her up in your desire.

I like it when my H takes charge in the bedroom. You don't have to be mean or forceful at all - just ... driven. That is very erotic. Work on PULLING her toward you like an irresistible magnet (PHTlump's post gives you a resource for learning about that).

In your scenario above, what would have happened when she would have asked "I'm awake now... you want to have sex or what?" if you had reared up in the bed, thrown the covers off, rolled over on to her, said "yes, dammit, I'm dying for you!", kissed the living daylights out of her, and .... 

Best wishes.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Well, is it possible that she wants to have sex in a different way - you know, with you really being more in charge of the situation?
> 
> 
> In your scenario above, what would have happened when she would have asked "I'm awake now... you want to have sex or what?" if you had reared up in the bed, thrown the covers off, rolled over on to her, said "yes, dammit, I'm dying for you!", kissed the living daylights out of her, and ....
> ...


It would have been just like the last 12 times we had sex..... take charge or pull her to me.. it's always the same lay on my back here I am if you want me and don't forget the foreplay. I have toys that are more fun than her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Somehow you are not meeting your wife's needs. There is no passion in the relationship for her.

What does she say about the relationship?


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Not to make her a total villain here, I can take the blame for something. I may not be meeting her family commitment emotional needs. 

It's tough running a home based business and trying to be daddy at the same time. On the days she does work, (12 hr shift 3 days a week) the business runs with phone calls only and I'm daddy all day with the kids. On her days off is when I do my production work, those are the days and nights when I make money to support this family. On those days she asks me to take on daddy duties when I'm doing the 9-5 in the garage. If I refuse because I'm 'working' she gets prissy and sarcastic how fine I'll take them with me on my shopping trip while you stay here by yourself. You need to take more interest in your kids she'll holler as the door slams shut.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> Not to make her a total villain here, I can take the blame for something. I may not be meeting her family commitment emotional needs.
> 
> It's tough running a home based business and trying to be daddy at the same time. On the days she does work, the business runs with phone calls only and I'm daddy all day with the kids. On her days off is when I do my production work, those are the days and nights when I make money to support this family. On those days she asks me to take on daddy duties when I'm doing the 9-5 in the garage. If I refuse because I'm 'working' she gets prissy and sarcastic how fine I'll take them with me on my shopping trip while you stay here by yourself. You need to take more interest in your kids she'll holler as the door slams shut.


Bingo!

All it takes is ONE person in the relationship to make a real faith effort to start the ball rolling to improve things. Are you willing to be the one?


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Do I need to lay the sarcasm on any thicker... jesus.

The ball is in her court now. I've pushed it up and down hills for years now and I'm tired. It's her turn.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> Do I need to lay the sarcasm on any thicker... jesus.
> 
> The ball is in her court now. I've pushed it up and down hills for years now and I'm tired. It's her turn.


Yes. You have to use the little smilie thing for sarcasm otherwise we can't 'hear' it. 

Well, if you're at this point and you're that tired in trying to work it yourself, what are you willing to do? How willing is she to pick up the ball, and how willing are you to wait for her to pick it up? How long are you willing to wait?

Have you two ever done MC together? Have you ever considered IC for yourself?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> Not to make her a total villain here, I can take the blame for something. I may not be meeting her family commitment emotional needs.
> 
> It's tough running a home based business and trying to be daddy at the same time. On the days she does work, (12 hr shift 3 days a week) the business runs with phone calls only and I'm daddy all day with the kids. On her days off is when I do my production work, those are the days and nights when I make money to support this family. On those days she asks me to take on daddy duties when I'm doing the 9-5 in the garage. If I refuse because I'm 'working' she gets prissy and sarcastic how fine I'll take them with me on my shopping trip while you stay here by yourself. You need to take more interest in your kids she'll holler as the door slams shut.


I'm writing up a response to this post but have some questions... does your wife owrk in a hospital? Is she a nurse, repertory therapist, doctor? I’m assuming she does work in a hospital as the 12 hours/3 days a week is pretty normal.. does she do the one extra shift every 4 weeks? Thus 84 hours one pay period and 72 the next pay period? The answers to these are important to the response i'm writing.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

yes she's a nurse and only does 3 12's per week.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

First of all let me say youre not alone. Not that that helps. She only wants sex to please you and thats not what you want. Does she get an orgasm. Believe me its very hard to force a woman to want sex. Was it ever better and when and why has it gone like this. I cant really offer much except my previous advice.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Have you two ever done MC together? Have you ever considered IC for yourself?


It's right around the corner. I've already checked my insurance to check coverage, next step is call my doc for an appt.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> Not to make her a total villain here


She is not a villain at all.


Screenp2 said:


> I can take the blame for something.


You own 50% of the blame.. it takes two.


Screenp2 said:


> I may not be meeting her family commitment emotional needs.


 It's tough running a home based business and trying to be daddy at the same time. On the days she does work, (12 hr shift 3 days a week) the business runs with phone calls only and I'm daddy all day with the kids. On her days off is when I do my production work, those are the days and nights when I make money to support this family. On those days she asks me to take on daddy duties when I'm doing the 9-5 in the garage. If I refuse because I'm 'working' she gets prissy and sarcastic how fine I'll take them with me on my shopping trip while you stay here by yourself. You need to take more interest in your kids she'll holler as the door slams shut.[/QUOTE]
Very good, this is something that can be dealt with…

are both basically working opposite shifts even tough you are in the house when you work your shifts. Opposite shifts are hard on marriages and families. Add to this the ‘working at home’ problem. One of the issues with working at home is that everyone thinks you’re available and just at home. I’ve been through this entire scenario in my own life. 

You say that on the days when your wife is not working, you work day and night.

A large part of the solution to this is to hire a baby sitter to cover for part of the time. Switch to do as much of your work as possible during her work hours. Have a sitter come to your house and watch your children while you are working. If you do most of the work while your wife is at work, that puts the two of you on mostly the same schedule. Now you can work a lot less on the days when your wife is off work. Not only that but the sitter can watch the children and give you and your wife some time together as well.

We did this; we hired a high school junior to come take care of our son when I was running a consulting business with the main office in our home. It worked great. She did this with us for several years…. Leaving only once she graduated from college. She even lived with me for a few months one time when my husband had to go off for a few months of study.

Another point, you wife does not work part time. 36 hours is considered full time, especially when a lot of it is on her feet. I wonder if she gets upset and thinks you are putting her own with this.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Screenp2 said:


> It's tough running a home based business and trying to be daddy at the same time. On the days she does work, (12 hr shift 3 days a week) the business runs with phone calls only and I'm daddy all day with the kids. On her days off is when I do my production work, those are the days and nights when I make money to support this family. On those days she asks me to take on daddy duties when I'm doing the 9-5 in the garage. If I refuse because I'm 'working' she gets prissy and sarcastic how fine I'll take them with me on my shopping trip while you stay here by yourself. You need to take more interest in your kids she'll holler as the door slams shut.


It sounds like your wife has clearer boundaries than you do. When she is at work, she is 100% at work with absolutely no kid duties. When you are at work, you are still expected to be available for the kids. Even when your wife is at home to relieve you, she still wants you to be the one to relieve her.

So you have to set boundaries. When she is home, tell her your work hours. From 9-12 and 1-5, you are unavailable to your family. You can take your lunch with them. If she needs to go to the store, she can find a sitter or take the kids with her. If you still need to work after 5, you can try to split your attention to make yourself as available to your family as possible.

If your wife is getting 36 hours a week away from the family to work, you should get the same consideration.

Your wife will likely test you on this. You may have had this conversation already. So you have to be ready to push back when she pushes you. If she says something crabby, ignore it. Or, sit her down and scold her. She will probably start respecting your boundaries once you're willing to enforce them yourself.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

It's been a month and I have some updates. 

In a nut shell,
Our love languages don't match and what we need to be happy is not what the other naturally gives.

We did the talk, walked the walk, had sex a couple times and nothing is ever going to change from the way it is now. 
She's not going to reach out to me the way I want her to and we can't afford to buy her the life she wants. 

She's a mom in her late 30's with 2 young kids and when she does think about sex, it's every few months and very rarely does it involve me. She's trying to be affectionate and understanding of my needs, she's making an effort but I'm a guy.. I need your hand on my schlong.. not a love note in my journal. 

When we do have sex it will always be the same, in the same fashion and take the same amount of time. She will never be on top again and that BJ I got 6 years ago _was_ the last one. Sex will drop as time goes on to the point that a full calendar year will go by without a red circle to let me know when the last time was. 

This is the life ahead of me If I decide to stay on this path. 

Work really hard to save a soon to be sexless marriage or start facing the emotional separation steps that will happen sooner or later.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Somehow you are not meeting your wife's needs. There is no passion in the relationship for her.
> 
> What does she say about the relationship?


Typical female response to turn it around on the man.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Screenp2 said:


> This is the life ahead of me If I decide to stay on this path.
> 
> Work really hard to save a soon to be sexless marriage or start facing the emotional separation steps that will happen sooner or later.


It's ok to go.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Hang on in there please and don't give up. I know when my children were young and I was working 30 hrs a week I was exhausted and felt very resentful towards my H because I wanted to be a SAHM. The sex was the first thing to go and I didn't want him near me. Then the post natal depression set in. So all in all our sex life was pretty bad for a long while. I also fell out of love with him BUT it cam back. As the kids got older and we BOTH weren't so exhausted from the baby/work/life treadmill things did change and I couldn't keep my hands of him.

Don't pressurise her for sex, this won't work, but continue to be affectionate and giving. My H used to run my bath, paint my toenails, help with the kids and the housework.'watch a movie together and have a snuggle, share a bottle of wine. Then go to bed and just hold her. No pressure of sex for now. And just see how it goes.'of course I'm not saying to go on like this indefinitely but you both need to give it your best shot for the sake of your children. If you still love her then don't give up.

Good luck x
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## monkeyface (Dec 2, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Hang on in there please and don't give up. I know when my children were young and I was working 30 hrs a week I was exhausted and felt very resentful towards my H because I wanted to be a SAHM. The sex was the first thing to go and I didn't want him near me. Then the post natal depression set in. So all in all our sex life was pretty bad for a long while. I also fell out of love with him BUT it cam back. As the kids got older and we BOTH weren't so exhausted from the baby/work/life treadmill things did change and I couldn't keep my hands of him.
> 
> Don't pressurise her for sex, this won't work, but continue to be affectionate and giving. My H used to run my bath, paint my toenails, help with the kids and the housework.'watch a movie together and have a snuggle, share a bottle of wine. Then go to bed and just hold her. No pressure of sex for now. And just see how it goes.'of course I'm not saying to go on like this indefinitely but you both need to give it your best shot for the sake of your children. If you still love her then don't give up.
> 
> ...


:iagree: You DO sound like you have a wonderful marriage aside from the sex right now. That's just life with small kids, period. I hope you see how lucky you are and what you could potentially be throwing away if you decided to leave. Hang in there!! There is no perfect marriage, and you could wind up with someone who gives you sex 5X a day and is bat sh*t crazy!


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## Template (Aug 2, 2011)

You went over your love languages and your ENs are affection and sex and hers is financial support?
Are you, by any chance, under employed? Does the majority of the financial responsibility fall on her shoulders with her job? Could you do some other work that might generate a higher income? Maybe become an employee rather than be self employed so there is a steady, weekly income with benefits? You may be living your dream being self employed, but it may not enable you to meet her ENs.

Perhaps she wanted to be a SAHM or work real part time hours, like 16 hours a week but couldn't because you are self employed. Perhaps there is resentment on her part because you are not meeting that EN for her. Over time, resentment kills libido for women. It just reduces sex to a marital obligation. She may feel this will never change for her because she does not expect you will ever meet her ENs.

Try His Needs Her Needs by W. Harley or the website Married Man Sex Life. Both of these encourage married folks to be the best they can be for themselves and in meeting the needs of each other. Both have some really interesting and good ideas.


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## Flower25 (Jan 9, 2012)

Screenp2--

Sounds like you are in a tough spot right now...

And when the kids are 1 and 4 and sleeping in your bed - it's VERY hard to act like a husband and a wife instead of a Daddy and a Mommy. I think many marriages go through a kind of a sex "lull" when the kids are that little...I know that mine did.

My only suggestion would be establishing a clear boundary between Mommy/Daddy roles and Husband/Wife roles. IOW - date nights, adult activities without the children, and try and get the kids out of your bed (once in a while when they are sick or something I can see....but not every night.).

I would also suggest MC and IC - your wife may very well be experiencing depression and needs to be treated for that...

Good luck!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Do you want to understand "your" role in this? Because "man to man" I see some major factors here that you need to own. 

But - ummm - I think to be fair you need to want to know how you helped create half this monster. 




Screenp2 said:


> Is my life really that bad.
> 
> I've been asking myself that ever since I made the decision to invest in someone and help them to help me have a better life.
> 
> ...


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

Template said:


> You went over your love languages and your ENs are affection and sex and hers is financial support?
> Are you, by any chance, under employed? Does the majority of the financial responsibility fall on her shoulders with her job? Could you do some other work that might generate a higher income? Maybe become an employee rather than be self employed so there is a steady, weekly income with benefits? You may be living your dream being self employed, but it may not enable you to meet her ENs.


Yes this is the root. I don't meet her needs for financial support or family needs which has shut her off completely. 

The incident that started it all, the incident that I can trace back to when the sex went from yeah to nah was back in 06' when I lost a top level management position worth 75k a year. To this day I have not been able to get back in that income bracket due to obligations to raising a family. I went were the work was before the ring went on. Now my family roots prevent me from doing that kind of travel work and w/out the good work, I don't make the good money anymore and she's had to pick up a large portion of the household expenses. Trying to keep her 'happy' and inside her standard of living high has cost us, not just our love life but very soon our financial tower is going to collapse. 

She is now in therapy for depression and taking bupropion 

I have my first session next week


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Wow, that was real nice of you destroying her self esteem. 

My husband is 6'1" and 145-147 lbs. naturally I weigh more then him since I broke my neck and can't run. I didn't gain much, but I'm far from being toned like I once was. Even upon gaining 100 pounds per child he never has called me fat. I did lose the weight by running.

Your wife is exhausted, she's taking care of your 1 year old baby, which is extremely exhausting. That's why she's not into you at the moment. After your comment, I doubt she'll ever be comfortable with you.

My husband and I went months without sex or touch. Not once did he get mad at me. Ever. 

My husband is my world, I'm his world. We are the best of friends, even though I've gained a couple pounds. I'm disabled and homebound. My husband has always put my needs before his own. He is always making sure I'm okay. Never once would he put me down.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Wow, that was real nice of you destroying her self esteem.



Destroyed her esteem.. LOL.. please! 
She's not that sensitive, if anything it helped remimd her of how we used to be. I've lost 30 lbs since then and she's down 15.

As for needs, she put mine on a shelf years ago, I put her needs on a shelf a couple of months ago.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Screenp2 said:


> I'm not giving up anything yet, just in an observation stage as I figure out my next move.


You have come to the right place my friend. I am going through something similar (as are tons of people here) just coming here and venting makes me feel better. I understand the feeling of wanting to give up. In fact, in some ways I have given up hoping for my marriage to get better. Did you read up on the 180?


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Screenp2 said:


> Destroyed her esteem.. LOL.. please!
> She's not that sensitive, if anything it helped remimd her of how we used to be. I've lost 30 lbs since then and she's down 15.
> 
> As for needs, she put mine on a shelf years ago, I put her needs on a shelf a couple of months ago.


Wow, I can feel your anger and frustration in just the few words you type. I completely understand what you are going through. Rejection hurts like hell. Is your change of heart lately been hurting your wife? 

Do you think you would ever have an affair? Have you ever strayed or gotten lost in internet chat sessions with the opposite sex? I ask this because that is usually what happens next. Beleive me, I have been there. I am STILL there, so you are not alone.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

endlessgrief said:


> Wow, I can feel your anger and frustration in just the few words you type. I completely understand what you are going through. Rejection hurts like hell. Is your change of heart lately been hurting your wife?
> 
> Do you think you would ever have an affair? Have you ever strayed or gotten lost in internet chat sessions with the opposite sex? I ask this because that is usually what happens next. Beleive me, I have been there. I am STILL there, so you are not alone.


It's not rejection on her part as she isn't directly saying no, she's not having her EN's met that fire the switches to allow her to feel sexual. 


affair.. nah. To much work for to little reward. I'm part of the problem my wife is broken, don't need to shatter anything over meaningless sex. I won't lie and say I'd like for something like that to happen, an event that just awakens my sexual being to get that rush that comes with new great sex while the one you just left hasn't even dried her crying eyes yet, a feeling that i chased like a high as I cheated on many a girls in my past.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Screenp2 said:


> Not to make her a total villain here, I can take the blame for something. I may not be meeting her family commitment emotional needs.





Screenp2 said:


> Do I need to lay the sarcasm on any thicker... jesus.
> 
> The ball is in her court now. I've pushed it up and down hills for years now and I'm tired. It's her turn.





Screenp2 said:


> It's not rejection on her part as she isn't directly saying no, she's not having her EN's met that fire the switches to allow her to feel sexual.


You sound so ridiculous to me. And, you're not listening to yourself either. How is it that you confess to being, at least in part, the cause of the problem but still expect miracles from her? I don't understand this.

Actually, you sound like a kid wanting everything to just happen. What you have done; all that you seem to expect reward for; all the pushing up and down hills will get you nothing more than what you have. As you can see, what you have gotten is what you asked for. She offers you sex, but you're still not satisfied and are entirely unwilling to do what it takes to get what you want. "_The ball is in her court_" is a ridiculous statement and is the reason you feel the way you do and also the reason you don't get what you want.

You want passion. You want to be wanted. You want her to be more aggressive. You want her to touch you. But, you have to ask for that too. The only thing is that the asking is not about the words formed to make the request. It's about what you do to make her want to do all those things.

Sometimes, I feel bad for men like you. I am trusting your statement that you don't mistreat her, disrespect her, put her down, or make her feel bad about herself - telling her she's fat nothwithstanding (that caused more damage than you can possibly imagine). So, I feel bad for you because you're not necessarily doing anything wrong (save that statement). You're just not doing anything right. And, I know you don't understand this.

There is a most unfortunate fact of life that men and women are very, very different with very different needs. Most of the complaints by men on this forum are just like yours - no sex. There are many reasons that apply to each of those situations, and yours is simply not giving your wife what she needs in order to want you. Therefore, all that you feel you have done; all the work you feel you have put into getting what you want are all for naught since what you have done is not what she needs you to do. So, it was all just useless. If you tune up and fix the lawn mower, that won't help the car to run.

There is a saying that "men need sex to feel loved, and women need love to want sex." That is very true.

And, you might have heard it stated here or there that women need to be made love to all day long if you want her to make love at night. That also is true.

If at all you are able to accept and understand those last two assertions, then you will know you have some real work to do, and you'll realize it was up to you all the long. After all, you did all these things when you met her. It was important to you then that she should like, want, and fall in love with you. Ever hear the song "The Same Thing It Took To Get Your Baby, It's Gonna Take The Same Things To Keep Her." Those words are also very true....not that you fear losing her, but you do want those early years back. Right?

You need this and this. You should watch the movie together and do the book together. You both deserve it. Even if she doesn't, you still should do them if you want results for yourself.

Note: The movie and book are religious-based. If that bothers you, then pay those references no mind because the principles set forth are universal.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

I would like to give some different opinions. 

You mentioned somewhere "I cannot buy the life my wife wants now". You lost contract/income. Your wife has to work to provide. 

That's enough for a wife to lose respect for you, even though this is unfortunate and not anyone's fault. When a woman loses respect, she does not have desire for the man. 

Loving a man beyond everything takes years to learn, your wife might not have learnt that, and she is in no shape to do that now with kids and work. 

Many years ago, when my H was unemployed and I was in training, all I could think about was "I did not bargain for this life". This is very immature. It is to ignore love. It is materialistic. It is vanity. But sometimew women's mind operate that way. I remember going to a wedding and saw an old college classmate happily married and glowing. She did not have to work. I watched her in a beatiful gown and got jealous. I had lots of resentment. Now, 20 yrs later, I have finally grown to understand "till death do we part, rich or poor, healthy or sick......blah blah blah". 

Working in the medical field is extremely stressful. Sometimes you bring home emotion of the patients after work. When you wife comes home she probably desprately wants to relax. However, she needs to face the kids. No wonder she shouts at you. If you had enough financial resources you could hire someone, but now you cannot afford it. If I were your wife, I would feel trapped. 

Good luck.


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## Screenp2 (Dec 4, 2011)

River1977 said:


> you're not necessarily doing anything wrong (save that statement). You're just not doing anything right. And, I know you don't understand this.


I understand it perfectly NOW.. I didn't have a clue 3 months ago when this all began. I was just your average guy walking around with a smile on his face who wanted to keep his wife happy for a happy life. It wasn't until I stuck my hand in the hornets nest looking for some honey that I learned about EN's. then to my shock I found out the root of the problems. 


Feel sorry for me all you want.. How do you think I feel after finding out after 6 years of marriage, that all of our problems are from ME not having a good enough job. Take away everything, I mean everything then put a sign in front of your face that says "doesn't make enough money".. now wear that sign every time you look at your husband.. you can't even see him as you're blinded by that sign. Like I said, I can't buy her happiness with my salary. 

Kind of ironic that I was the one who funded her schooling, and told her she didn't have to work while she was in school and get that nursing degree. I made an investment in her, an investment in our future lives together. One that we talked about, told her about starting a business one day.. an investment into our lives that would pay off in the end. Maybe she forgot about that part, forgot that this was all part of the plan that we were to build together. I guess she got blinded by the vanity bling and is stuck in the 'this life isn't what i bargained for'

I can forsee a number of things happening... what exactly happens, who knows but a good direction could be.. 

1.. she will spend a bunch of her money on therapy to learn how to love a man who makes less money than she does

2. she will keep her money and leave me for a man who does make more money than me

3. I will get that big job or successful business to fill her bank of financial needs and we live happily ever after. Maybe that would explain the incredible sex and happy filled weeks that followed the big bonus checks and the current eye roll and headshake at the sight of my paycheck. 

4.. I will learn to live with this the best I can or develop and exit plan. I have a bunch of stuff to talk to the MC about, first appt is Tuesday morning. 

This ain't no disney movie over here and the happy ending has yet to be written.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

I can appreciate your bitterness. Just want to say a few things since what you are saying can be what my H would have said 15 yrs ago. 

Yes you made an "investment". I understand this was mutual agreement and not just an investment in your wife as the moneymaker. However, even though you funded her studies, the schooling and training are hard, probably tougher than she had ever imagined. Plus, during this time she also had 2 kids. Additionally, she is in a field that you might not have a good knoweledge of. She probably does not talk to you too much about her job (she might SHOW a lot of the stress but she cannot voice exactly why). 

So, basically she can feel overwhelmed. You are thinking she is not keeping her promise, but she did not foresee the future. What if I say (just hypothetically, for example) a woman wants to study, get a degree, then have kids, spend about 1/2 time as a mom, 1/2 time working, still have some time to relax, still have some $ leftover to vacation, and have a husband making about same $ as she does? Most people would think this woman is not too unreasonable. (You know, there are women NOT willing to work, NOT willing to have kids). Your wife is working almost full time now, probably has a tough time to relax, probably cannot think about vacation. 

Certainly IC and MC would be helpful (if not, try a different therapist). I do not agree your (1), obviously spoken out of your anger, that your wife is blowing $ away to learn how to love a man that makes less. Any $ _invested_ in your future is worthy investment. 

Many years ago, my H bitterly said I only "care about numbers". He was unemployed. I was dying in medical training. Today, he makes so much more than I do. I am a well established medical professional. Older kid will be in university. We travel all over the world. We survived affair, infertility, years of in-laws living with us (my H's parents). So many give-and-takes happened. I am sure my H harbored resentment towards me based on my resentment during those years of financial struggle, but we are finally seeing thru all these to each other's true qualities. And materialistic things will pass. When we were young, we would kill for a Beemer. Now I drive the most economical car I can find, but this process took some time. There are some people who never get seduced by worldly vanity, but I was not one. It took a long time (and sometimes only after you have had enough materialistic things for a while) to realize what is TRULY precious in our lives. 

Again I can understand as a man how your pride would be tremendously hurt by all this, but I just wanted to relate and let you know how it can all turn out to be good. Take care.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

So, what we're saying here is that women are just not attracted to their husbands if they're not bringing home the coin that's due to them, yes it's shallow and pathetic but "that's just how they're wired". 

So what if you make a comfortable living, be responsible and sock away money for the kids education and retirement, the wife has the choice to work part-time or not and take care of the home, and it's still not enough? Have a couple of kids and they become the center of her life, and there just isn't any time or energy to waste on silly things like meeting the needs of your husband. Oh right, it's the man's fault because he didn't meet her emotional needs to unlock her sexual being!!

I will be having a talk with my sons when the time is right - marry with your eyes wide open to the very high possibility that the relationship you have with the girl you're courting will be gone once you have a family. You trade your love for your life for your children not because you have to, but because it's the choice that the quest to be the best mom in the world made.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

that would be trade love for your wife, not life


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

I have to disagree with River1977 pretty hard here. I don't think she understands the situation well enough. But enough of that.

One of the worst possible things a wife can do to her husband is to make her love for him conditional on just how much money he makes. Note that I didn't say "provides for his family", but rather that her love and respect for him are dependent on the degree to which he provides, and provides a life of luxury and/or leisure to her. I say "worst" because it sends a very strong message to the husband. "*The PERSON you are does not matter to me as much as the MONEY you have brought to me (today)*"

How is that any different from a husband saying to his wife "*I will love you ONLY as long as stay looking as youthful, slim and beautiful (as you were when....)*"? What the heck happened to all those vows of sticking with each other as you get older and go through life's up and downs?

I'm not saying that Screenp2's wife is a gold digger. I'm just pointing out what she is doing. She is making her respect and affection for him totally dependent on something that the continuation of and growth of is almost never fully in a man's control. And ScreenP2 has every right to be very unhappy about that.

/ RANT MODE: ON 

Life happens, and Money comes and Money goes. People lose jobs. Economies tank. Businesses close. People have to make hard choices (more money or more time with family?) and we don't get to have it all. Just because we made a lot money this year DOES NOT mean it will continue to happen. Yes, we will try our best, but it's one of those things that life NEVER guarantees.

Even acknowledging women's mate-selection preferences (status, capital accumulation, etc) it's indicative of a woman who doesn't truly see herself a one-half of a partnership, and maybe doesn't have a realistic understanding of what making money involves. If she did, her nature would be to be supportive, not punitive. For this test, I think a lot of women who believe themselves to be supportive are not.

/ RANT MODE: OFF

I'm not sure what to advise here. 

It's possible ScreenP2 could get his wife to see what she is doing and there's a way to heal his marriage without him landing a 6-figue job. 

But I would say that it's also more likely that is just the way his wife is, and she's not going to change. And that she is likely to stay not respecting or caring for him for a long time, even if he recovers the income in time. And during that time she may be receptive to an EA or PA with someone she respects more (i.e. someone who makes more money), and continue all the while to tear him down for not making 'enough' money.

It's a mess, and I'll just say: try for the best and have a backup plan for the worst. Once it's gone, it's often impossible to get the respect to fully come back.


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