# Just wondering what your collective thoughts on this might be ...



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

While I have been around for a little while, this is my first actual thread on TAM. I was hoping to get your thoughts on what I have to say and would first like to give you some background context on why I am asking for this.

On another forum to do with surviving cheating (for want of a better phrase), there is a betrayed husband posting having caught his breadearner and competitive athlete of a wife cheating with her training partner who is also their friend. The OM is wealthier and is also fit. The WW is the main breadearner and they both decided on this. The OP had a specialist career that he gave up when they moved for her job and decided to be a SAHD to raise the kids.

The WW started sleeping with her training partner and was almost caught by the OBS and then later by the OP (the BH). When confronted she was initially quite aggressive towards him while he was the complete opposite. She did not even agree or commit to end the affair and go NC. He did move her stuff into the guest room saying that since she stepped out on the marriage, she should leave the marital bed.

Her response to this was that she had paid for the bed and could sleep in it if she wanted and that if he did not want to sleep in the same bed, he should be the one to move out. This aggressive response carried on until two things happened - first, the OP informed the OBS and she tore a new one in the OM who committed to then end the affair and work on their marriage; and second, the WW went to see a lawyer who pretty much told her that she would lose a lot if they went down the divorce route. Then she suddenly had an epiphany and decided that she would end the affair and work on the marriage and OP is now trying to reconcile while to-ing and fro-ing between leaving and staying. As you can imagine he has been getting all kinds of advice but he kind of feels that she is genuniely remorseful since she is doing all the right things ... now.

That's the background.

While trying to advise the BH, I pointed out what I believe to be true in that many women do not respect SAHD's who do not work at all and that his WW might have seen him in a less than positive or respected light as a result. I do not agree that this is right (many SAHD's work very hard and sacrifice a lot to take care of their families) but nevertheless, it is prevalent. So I have two questions on this:

1. Am I wrong to say that this happens and he should be aware of it?
2. Is it a ban-worthy comment?

I got banned from this forum by a moderator that I do not believe knows enough to understand the difference between advice being given based on experience and findings as opposed to a malicious attack on a BH who is already down. It maybe that this moderator was just having a bad day or something struck a personal issue type nerve with her.

I am not sure what qualifies a moderator to be a moderator on different forums but I find the ones on TAM the most understanding and empathetic with those who are truly trying to help even if it sometimes involves 2X4's. The other forums not so much - it seems pretty much anyone is made into a moderator and they almost have facist-like power to do what they please with no repercussions.

I would welcome comments from all on this as it really got me thinking about these forums and maybe the need to have some kind of common guidelines for moderator training on some of them.

Feel free to PM me if you need more details on this.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Man, i have been following that thread as well, as well as the thread started by the OM's wife...honestly i have more respect for her (OM's wife) for running over the OM's prize bike than i do for this guy...he was gunho about taking her down but suddenly he has so backed off and is not a wimp. I have no respect for him.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

I suspect you are correct. By dropping his career, getting out of shape, and becoming Mr. Mom, he essentially cut his own nuts off. His wife lost respect for him as a man, and stopped viewing him as a virile mate.

But, I do not think she is sorry. Her affair partner ended things, which left her with nothing. Even so, her first reaction wasn't to reconcile, it was to seek divorce. Only after being told she'd be raked over the coals in a divorce settlement did she become "remorseful".


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

I think the same thing manfromlamancha, and I don't think it is anywhere near bandworthy.

Having said that it is a bit like the sharks on Finding Nemo trying to deny nature and convince themselves that "Fish are friends not food".

Whatever forum that is might be trying to enforce a world view that does not make sense. 

Can you give a hint what forum and thread?

Best!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I think this guy should talk to a lawyer so that he knows his rights in getting a divorce and what he needs to do now to maximize the split in assets.

Regarding his being an SAHD, I could've sworn that someone here referred to a research survey that said that women are more likely to cheat when their husband is an SAHD. Does anyone remember it or know of such research?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Decorum said:


> I think the same thing manfromlamancha, and I don't think it is anywhere near bandworthy.
> 
> Having said that it is a bit like the sharks on Finding Nemo trying to deny nature and convince themselves that "Fish are friends not food".
> 
> ...


Forum is SI. BH (OP) is Bahama. Moderator is SassyLee.

I would love to get hold of the survey and send it to her.

I agree with all of the responses here and thank you for them. 

Bahama is "afraid" of the WW and says things like "financially, she has all the power" etc. This I have come to expect from some betrayed spouses. I am bewildered at being banned for the advice I gave him by this SassyLee (who came out of nowhere with this but seems to be empowered to do so).


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It might be that SI encourages recpnciliation.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

SI is the site where the BS (especially the BH) go to learn how to digest and tolerate **** sandwiches. Anyone pointing out how the BS is being played, what they are doing wrong, or (god forbid) how to get even, will be warned or banned. You should cut and paste the PM you got.

SI is a **** site with **** moderators.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Also I found out that the moderator who banned me has a SAHD for a husband and must have taken it personally. Who knows ?

And yes, it is not as effective as TAM in dealing with really getting to the bottom of things. Especially since it claims to be dealing with Infidelity where as TAM deals with marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Poor fellow needs TAM. Anyone who is on SI can you send him a PM inviting him here please?


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> Poor fellow needs TAM. Anyone who is on SI can you send him a PM inviting him here please?


To clarify, I liked this because it is a good point, not that I am on SI and sending a PM. 

So this guy still needs someone to point him in the right direction (here).


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I suspect it was the way you said it "...no matter what she says, women do not respect stay at home dads". If you had said 'some' women. there likely wouldn't have been a problem. Another male member flat out said "oh by the way get a job" with no repercussions. Generalized statements can be fraught with danger.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

The idea that marriages are less satisfying when women earn significantly more than the men they marry has been heavily studied. I suspect that those attitudes will soften over time, but today they are very real. From what I've read, women's respect declines as they increase their earnings and consequent social status relative to their husbands and men's insecurities increase at the same time. It's not fair. It's not right. I don't think it will always be that way. But that's the way it is.

Here are a few studies.

https://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/identity.pdf
https://www.jstor.org/stable/353538?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
http://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/aug16asrfeature.pdf


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FalCod said:


> The idea that marriages are less satisfying when women earn significantly more than the men they marry has been heavily studied.


I'm not sure it even has anything to do with satisfaction or happiness. 

I'm willing to bet if you were to ask these women on the day before they met their AP about their marital happiness and satisfaction, many would say they were happy and satisfied and that things were going well. 

I big number would even say their marriage and home and family life was great while they were having the affair. 

I think it is a very deep instinctual thing that is driven more by respect and primal sexual attractions that determine whether potential mate is "worthy" of her sexual attentions or not. 

I hate to get too redpill but a person's conscious mind may crunch the numbers and consciously decide that it is fine to go out into the world while the husband stays home and tends to the offspring while everything is going fine. 

But way down deep on a deep primal level, there is going to be a little voice that says you need a strong man that can slay dragons and bring home meat when the next drought, plague, famine or ice age comes along. 

Sexual attraction and desire are not choices and they don't care about what is happening on good days in the 1st world. They are about strength and fitness and ability to survive and replicate on the Plains of the Serengeti.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> 1. Am I wrong to say that this happens and he should be aware of it?
> 2. Is it a ban-worthy comment?


No, and no.

It seems to me this BH is already quite aware that his wife utterly disrespects him and considers herself superior. He probably sees his actions of staying home and caring for their children as benevolent and sacrificial. Which, by God, it is, and this reward is what his haughty, selfish wife bestows on him for it.

It clearly should not be a "ban-worthy" statement on a website which purports to help those in adultery situations. But your comment probably "pushed buttons" because it points out just what a despicable, arrogant, self-aggrandizing POS this WW is. And, that she is in no way "remorseful", she is "justified", this is the BH's "fault", not her own evil concupiscence.....

It's just more blame-shifting, done abstractly on an executive level.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> So I have two questions on this:
> 
> 1. Am I wrong to say that this happens and he should be aware of it?
> 2. Is it a ban-worthy comment?


You aren't wrong. It DOES happen.

I don't think the comment is ban worthy. However, I do not go to SI for a reason and that reason is I think its a protective bubble for snowflakes who can't handle reality. I'd assume the snowflakes there would find your comment ban-worthy for its not so pretty truth.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> While I have been around for a little while, this is my first actual thread on TAM. I was hoping to get your thoughts on what I have to say and would first like to give you some background context on why I am asking for this.
> 
> On another forum to do with surviving cheating (for want of a better phrase), there is a betrayed husband posting having caught his breadearner and competitive athlete of a wife cheating with her training partner who is also their friend. The OM is wealthier and is also fit. The WW is the main breadearner and they both decided on this. The OP had a specialist career that he gave up when they moved for her job and decided to be a SAHD to raise the kids.
> 
> ...


The wife, in this case, is not being remorseful, but is willing to put up with her husband because her AP have abandoned her and her divorce will cost her a lot. Her husband should not reconcile under these circumstances because his wife does not respect him one bit and she would (internally) RESENT him even if she stay with him. He needs to apply for a job, seek Individual Counseling (IC), and file for divorce. Otherwise, he is PLAN B, and have no incentive to be a better man who deserve much better then this nonsense. This is my take based on your disclosure.

As for your ban, looks like you struck a nerve. However, you could make a better case for your point by highlighting relevant studies in your post. Perhaps the moderator felt that you were being disrespectful to SAHDs?

And if it is possible for you, then advice the husband to come to this forum to receive best possible advice.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Amazing how many cheaters become remorseful when their AP dumps them and they realize what a divorce will cost them. Suddenly the same old boring spouse doesn't look so bad -- at least until the next AP comes along to shake things up again. 

Sounds like many of the posters and mods over there prefer a fantasy world. I say leave it to them.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Were you really banned for that comment or did you argue the validity of the comment with the mod via PM and piss her off? The comment was not ban-worthy unless you go by a very strict “no generalizations” rule, and since they allow millions of “every WS does xyz” comments I doubt that was the case. 

I can’t speak for all women with SAHD’s but I did not respect my XWH. But he was a lousy SAHD so I resented the crap out of him for making me have to cover work and the homefront. I don’t know if I would have felt the same way if he had that side of the street humming along.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

I read the thread and wondered about why you were in the doghouse. I have received a few of those "Skerzoid, you have a private message." announcements on SI myself. 

What is also interesting is that the OBS is also posting on SI so we get to see what is going on in the other household for what its worth. She posts under "Ladybugmaam". She and "Bahama" are both totally devastated by their incredibly cruel spouses' actions. They (the APs) had even developed a "decision tree" to decide whether to stay with their spouses. How professional of them. Triathletes are another breed.

Both betrayers are now acting soooo remorseful. It probably helps to be remorseful when you are going to be devastated financially by your SAHS in a divorce.>


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

No, it wasn't ban-worthy. However, moderation on that forum is apparently performed by 14 year olds with PMS, so they don't really care lol


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not sure it even has anything to do with satisfaction or happiness.
> 
> I'm willing to bet if you were to ask these women on the day before they met their AP about their marital happiness and satisfaction, many would say they were happy and satisfied and that things were going well.
> 
> ...


*
*

I'm calling bs on this. Many, many, many women have affaired down so far from their spouse that the AP would need a ladder to touch a snake's belly. Case on point - Swat70's wife.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I agree with your sentiments re: SAHDs. Sad, but true.

And I've been here awhile. I've never ever known you to be a mean spirited poster. I'm puzzled as to why you would be banned in this instance.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you all for your comments and confirming that I did not do something banworthy and was honestly trying to help the BH in that case. I guess maybe I had to make it clear that this was not meant to attack all SAHDs but point out the fact that it does happen and WWs do often feel this way (superior to a SAHD).


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

lucy999 said:


> I agree with your sentiments re: SAHDs. Sad, but true.
> 
> And I've been here awhile. I've never ever known you to be a mean spirited poster. I'm puzzled as to why you would be banned in this instance.


Thank you. I try not to be. I sometimes do get passionate about some stuff and despise cheating.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Bluesclues said:


> Were you really banned for that comment or did you argue the validity of the comment with the mod via PM and piss her off? The comment was not ban-worthy unless you go by a very strict “no generalizations” rule, and since they allow millions of “every WS does xyz” comments I doubt that was the case.
> 
> I can’t speak for all women with SAHD’s but I did not respect my XWH. But he was a lousy SAHD so I resented the crap out of him for making me have to cover work and the homefront. I don’t know if I would have felt the same way if he had that side of the street humming along.


I got banned and was completely surprised. No chance to argue the validity of it etc. And yes it was a generic view on SAHDs being cheated on. C'est la vie I guess.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

is the ban on SI a permanent thing or more of a time out like it usually is here?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> [/B]
> 
> I'm calling bs on this. Many, many, many women have affaired down so far from their spouse that the AP would need a ladder to touch a snake's belly. Case on point - Swat70's wife.


You may think she affaired down. And the general consensus of other people may be that the BS was a fine man and that the OM was a *********. And perhaps she may even want stay married under the same roof and have him continue to nanny her offspring while she goes out and does her thang...…


But there is a part of her that deems him unworthy of her sexuality and thinks that the OM is the Bigger, Better Deal in terms of sexuality. 

It may not be logical and it may not be "right" in the big scheme of things. But this is a very real thing and a real big risk for SAHDs. Even Dr Laura Schlesinger when she had her syndicated talk show would warn of the dangers of being a SAHD and that there was always an element of risk of the wife losing respect and admiration and ultimately desire for her H if she was the one out slaying dragons and not him. 

One can argue why something is the way it is and argue about which mechanisms are making it happen, but I think it is quite evident that SAHDs are at a special risk of wives losing respect and desire for them and are at extra risk of their wives hooking up with other dudes.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SI is designed to be exactly what it's title suggest. Have people survive infidelity and just "survive" infidelity. 

As far as that thread, only on SI could you actually see someone tell that BS that he was lucky. This because his wife one night broke down about how sorry she was. His wife had an affair with a friend for months, he just found out and someone tells him he is lucky. That sentence sums up SI better then anything else. 

I also find it interesting how the BS always assumes the WS's tears are for them. I think a much better assumption is they are for the lost love affair they were just in. If they look sad it's probably not about you! They were just stabbing you in the back remember? 

So in the last page or so she seems to be sad and everyone is telling him he is headed in the right direction. Such bad advice. He has only really gotten to the starting place. First of all she is probably no were near remorse, just regret. But lets just say she is at remorse, Remorse is a REQUIREMENT for reconciliation, not the reason for it. The most important thing he is going to need to figure out in the coming months, years, decades is can he live with it. At this point he has no idea what that would even mean. 

Don't feel bad. Lots of us have been banned for "wrong think" on that site. Good for us!

As for your comment, I don't think you are wrong, though it's not PC, I don't believe in stay at home anyone anymore, accept before the kids start school. Maybe that worked in an older time before both sexes were defined by their work but it doesn't work like that anymore. In today's day and age it just seems like there are too many potential problems. Often the SAH person grows to become entitled. It often creates a parent child dynamic. It causes resentment. It leaves both spouses unprotected because they are at the mercy of the workings spouses salary if the marriage should brake up. 

Finally though it's not PC and I know this is where you are going, I think in general women are wired to want their man to be a provider and men are wired to want to do so and a great part of their self worth from that. Now maybe intellectually those same people might wish that they were not emotionally wired that way, but we all know how well most people are able to overcome their emotional makeup. I think it's the rare person who can do that, frankly I think as ones sex becomes irrelevant to ones career both men and women will probably start to feel this way. 

Before I started reading on here I had a romantic notion of this I no longer do. As far as I am concerned it doesn't work anymore in the 21st century.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Forum is SI. BH (OP) is Bahama. Moderator is SassyLee.
> 
> I would love to get hold of the survey and send it to her.
> 
> ...





MattMatt said:


> Poor fellow needs TAM. Anyone who is on SI can you send him a PM inviting him here please?


So I found his thread and invited him here. Maybe later I will send him one of those studies depending on how he responds.

Good job, I love you guys!
:grin2:


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> is the ban on SI a permanent thing or more of a time out like it usually is here?


I asked the same thing - was told it was permanent. They are not as sophisticated as TAM.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> One can argue why something is the way it is and argue about which mechanisms are making it happen, but I think it is quite evident that SAHDs are at a special risk of wives losing respect and desire for them and are at extra risk of their wives hooking up with other dudes.


It also puts the wives at extra risk of the SAHD hooking up with other women. When the wife loses respect and desire for him, what better way to fix that ego than go out and find some strange who thinks you are amazing and unappreciated. “Hon, rough day with the kids, do you mind if I go out for a bit?”


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> jlg07 said:
> 
> 
> > is the ban on SI a permanent thing or more of a time out like it usually is here?
> ...


Sorry about the ban. That is craziness. Your post wasn’t even time-out worthy. But they do all or nothing there.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> SAHDs are at a special risk of wives losing respect and desire for them and are at extra risk of their wives hooking up with other dudes.


People who commit adultery, and who "lose respect" for their spouses, do so because of their own moral wickedness and are, in the basic, disrespectful of God. They are self-centered and haughty, considering themselves better than their spouses.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> While trying to advise the BH, I pointed out what I believe to be true in that many women do not respect SAHD's who do not work at all and that his WW might have seen him in a less than positive or respected light as a result. I do not agree that this is right (many SAHD's work very hard and sacrifice a lot to take care of their families) but nevertheless, it is prevalent. So I have two questions on this:
> 
> 1. Am I wrong to say that this happens and he should be aware of it?
> 2. Is it a ban-worthy comment?


1. NO, you are NOT wrong to say that happens because it does happen. The moderator may not like that it happens, but her feelings don't change reality. You can make a generalization about an overall group and have it be true. That doesn't mean anything about any one individual in the group. 

And one "truth" about men and women in general is that relationship where the woman is the breadwinner and especially where the husband does not work tend to have big problems. It just goes against the way most men and women are wired respectively.

2. No. Of course not. Now if you told the guy "You're a pathetic, fat, weak loser, no wonder she's cuckolding you." That would probably be ban worthy. But if you're just trying to give him some insight into the dynamic they're experiencing, "Women tend to lose respect for their husbands when the woman earns a lot more." that's actually helpful.

I have noticed some people get really freaked out over any generalization these days even when they're obviously true.

As for this particular situation, it's not LOGICAL for the wife to lose respect for him because they decided as a couple that he would give up his work and be a SAHD so she could pursue hers. But that's why your insight was actually very valuable, because she many not have been aware of what drove her to have such contempt for her husband. If they had both understood the dangers of their plan they might have avoided it.

Here's another generalization for you -- Men who don't have a career tend to get depressed and feel bad about themselves. That might help explain why he let himself get out of shape and is behaving so weakly now. Understanding that might help motivate him to make changes in those areas.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I got verbally pounced on by few for saying similar comments on another thread many months ago. In my case it was a woman, who took offense because she was a SAHM, as though the 2 things are the same. 

Most men take pride in being able to allow their wife to be a SAHM. The opposite is not true. Most women want to look up to the man they love. Which is why their number 1 affair partner is their boss.
It may start of all egalitarian but women usually becomes resentful of being the sole provider. Over 50 years of social engineering is not going to change half a million years of evolution.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

WorkingWife said:


> 1. NO, you are NOT wrong to say that happens because it does happen. The moderator may not like that it happens, but her feelings don't change reality. You can make a generalization about an overall group and have it be true. That doesn't mean anything about any one individual in the group.
> 
> And one "truth" about men and women in general is that relationship where the woman is the breadwinner and especially where the husband does not work tend to have big problems. It just goes against the way most men and women are wired respectively.
> 
> ...


Thank you and I totally agree with you and in particular with the bolded part - a good insight and worth remembering.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

I've spoken to a lot of men who have discovered their wife was having an affair. Two things I hear again and again.

#1: Wife got a promotion/new job, or husband lost his job or he was injured and couldn't work.
#2: Kids.

With #1, the wife loses respect. That flips the switch, boundaries are down, the "must procure new mate" machine is off and running. Very common.

Kids just introduce the perfect storm of issues that commonly break down the intimate bond between a man and a woman. They become comfortable siblings caring for little humans. Show me an overworked mom with some screaming kids at home, and I'll show you the woman most likely to have an affair.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

What's SI? I'd like to have a peak at that site.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> 1. Am I wrong to say that this happens and he should be aware of it?
> 2. Is it a ban-worthy comment?



Wrong? No, but how dare you say it's a woman's fault or that she is faulty? OMG, that is so politically incorrect, "abusive", "narcissistic", and just plain "manly", it must be banned from society. 

Oops, answered both in one statement of sarcasm and partial realistic portrayal of today's thought processes and consequences. 

Probably not a place you want to be, anyway. Unless, you decide to keep your mansplaining to yourself and follow the leaders. 

>


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

This had all the signs of being an exit affair, at least for her. The OM got cold feet or snapped out of the fog when his BW did a shock and awe on him. The WW on the other hand was still all in. She reluctantly agreed to NC and that she would write a NC letter after days of the BH badgering her. The next day, instead of giving her BH a NC letter, she was sneaking off to see a lawyer find out her options. That's when she finally learned, that without a wealthy POS to branch off to, divorce was going to be painfully expensive.

They started with training about twice a week for an hour to getting together 5 times a week for about 3 hours. Now the BH has learned that she got on birth control pills even though he had a vasectomy. Yet she claims the sex was not important and he's eating it up.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> What's SI? I'd like to have a peak at that site.


SurvivingInfidelity.com


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

jsmart said:


> she finally learned, that without a wealthy POS to branch off to, divorce was going to be painfully expensive.
> Yet she claims the sex was not important and he's eating it up.


This is right on the money. It's right on the sex, too, but that isn't a trite colloquialism.

Chances are, that this BH did not actually have anything to do with the internal formulation which caused her to decide to affair. 

It's very likely that this unfortunate BH married sloppy seconds in the beginning. His wife didn't really want sex with him, even from the point she said "I do".

She married him because he was a "beta", and she had already given her sexual best to an "alpha", but alpha men are not "the marrying kind".

I can tell this poor cuckolded husband got this woman because he was a sperm donor and a man she could "control". An alpha man, when faced with the option of moving into house-husbandry, would have told her right then to take a flying phuck at a rolling donut. 

I can tell the POSOM is also an alpha, because he was not going to become the "branch-off" male. To adopt another trite colloquialism, he "milked it through the fence".

He's "eating up" the lie coming through the "trickle truth" from his POSWW. It's the sex with him that's "not important". He has been married for what he could provide to the family, the kids, etc. He's now remaining married because he's the nice, controllable beta who is allowing the POSWW to save lots of money.


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