# Not A Good Wife



## Wishes

I am new here. Joined today. If I am posting in the wrong section please let me know. I looked over the different options and this seemed to apply.

I will start this by saying that I cheated on my husband. I really do not understand how or why I could have done such a thing because it is so deeply out of character. I have always been a nice girl, loving and faithful wife, and a good mother. It was not a case of temporary insanity because I had many reality checks along the way but always found a way to keep the affair going. I cannot say I was unhappy because, before the affair, I was happy nearly all the time. I can’t say that it “just happened.” It didn’t. I allowed it to happen.

My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally. I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him. I do not know what possessed me!!!!! What was I thinking????? He forgave me for some inappropriate texting but once he learned the affair went physical, he walked away and never looked back. Our divorce was final last month and I am dying. I can’t eat, I can’t sleep, I can’t stop weeping and the stress and sadness is sometimes overwhelming. I’ve lost a husband who literally worshipped the ground I walked on and I also lost the respect of my children as well as many of my friends.

He left me a year ago and I have believed this entire time he would forgive me and take me back. I thought I knew him better than he knew himself. He never gave me any hope that my affair was forgivable, however, throughout the years he had conditioned me to believe he could not live without me. I truly believed he could not live without me. I thought he would give me another chance. I figured that if I got myself into therapy, proved to him how incredibly sorry I was, did the right things, said the right words, that eventually he would give me a chance to prove how so very sorry I am for what I did. That hasn’t happened. Obviously, he can live without me after-all, however, I do not believe I can live without him.

I think sometimes that I literally cannot live another day. It never leaves my mind and there are times that the pain is so great that I just fall apart. Sometimes, out of nowhere my eyes will well up and I began sobbing. Sometimes uncontrollably and anywhere; in a restaurant, at home, at the grocery store, at work, I will suddenly just fall apart. I had a perfect, wonderful and blessed life that for some reason I felt I had to completely trash. My husband was perfect in every way imaginable. He was faithful true and kind to the fullest extent. 

When my husband first voiced his concern with the volumn of text messages between me and ‘just a friend’, I was terrified that he would think less of me. He had always had me on this pedestal and I somehow knew that it would be easier to convince him that he was the problem and not me, so I proceeded to tear him down, convincing him that he was narrow minded, controlling and just plain jealous. I convinced him that he was the one who needed therapy. Not a proud moment.

Some months later he found some inappropriate texts and pictures between me and OM, but, by this time I had become the liar and cheater and everything in between that I loathed in a person. I was also deep in the fog. I loved my husband but truly needed to continue my relationship with OM so we took it underground. We bought burner phones, set up new email accounts and would meet whenever possible. At this point it was not a PA and that’s where I drew the line. I enjoyed being able to drive OM crazy, he complimented me like crazy and he was always starving to see me.

I never intended for the affair to get physical. I had myself convinced that it was just some harmless fun. I was not looking for love or sex, my husband gave me an abundancy of both, however, I had become addicted to the attention and I used sex to make sure I continued to get it. Sick, I know it.

I am not expecting anyone to understand this because, after all this time, I do not understand it myself. It is something I just did. I cannot tell you how I wish I could undo it. I wake up crying when I realize it is not just awful dream. I actually did this. I deserve absolutely no pity or compassion from my husband, my children, friends, family nor anyone reading these words. I did not confess to my infidelity. My husband caught me and I will never forget how horrible it was. With tears in his eyes he shouted and screamed at me. He wanted to know how could I do this to him, to us, to our family…..My God. I don’t know. All the while I stood there shaking, ashamed, humiliated and in shock, knowing there was nothing I could say. 

The most awful, heartbreaking and terrifying thing I remember about that day was witnessing his love and care for me turn into pure hatred and distain. I hate me too. I hate every day. I am in therapy and although I have a little more insight into why I did the things I did, it certainly does not excuse my behavior. My now X-husband is a beautiful person, a wonderful man and a great father and yet, I cheated on him anyway. I do not know what I was thinking and I still do not know what is wrong with me. I have always loved him so much. I adore him and know that I do not want to live this life without him. How could I have hurt him the way I did. I do not know how to fix what I’ve broken and I do not even know what is broken within me. One of my therapist said it was my attempt at self-medicating a traumatic childhood. If that be the case, I am here to say that it did not work, it only left me feeling angry, empty and filled with more self-loathing. My upbringing was inconsistent and horrifically verbally and physically abusive particularly from my daddy; so yes, I have serious daddy issues, but I never had issues with my husband. 

Why did I write all this? Because I want my husband back and I will wait for him. What else can I do. I have done a lot of reading in this forum and others and it seems that in most cases, eventually the BS will give the marriage or relationship another chance. My now XH said he could make no promises. that the divorce is something he had to do for now and that who knows what the future might hold. He told me to live my life and that one day he might be knocking on my door; or not.

My question to you is very selfish, I know. Most or all here have experienced betrayal. After hearing my story, and considering your experiences with this forum, do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance? Hope was wonderful this last year, but since the divorce, I find it very difficult to hold on to hope.

Please, try not to bash me. I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. I am asking for something constructive to help me either, move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely. I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.


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## Sports Fan

Wow. Just wow. It is great that you have accepted responsbility for your actions. After a year apart i would say chances are minimal that he will take you back. Obviously despite his unconditional love for you his line in the sand was a Physical Affair.

All you can do from now on is to continue to learn and better yourself as a person, so hopefully in the future you can be a good partner to another man.

That said if ex husband sees that you have moved on along with the genuine, remorseful changes you have made in your life he just might reconsider and take you back. 

But after a year apart the more time that passes the less hope there is.

Wishing you all the best.


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## GusPolinski

Sounds like he's moved on.

You should probably do the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

So what was it about the POS you craved so much

sex different..better..kinkier

Just compliments

The thrill of deceit


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## Truthseeker1

Wishes said:


> I am new here. Joined today. If I am posting in the wrong section please let me know. I looked over the different options and this seemed to apply.
> 
> I will start this by saying that I cheated on my husband. I really do not understand how or why I could have done such a thing because it is so deeply out of character. I have always been a nice girl, loving and faithful wife, and a good mother. It was not a case of temporary insanity because I had many reality checks along the way but always found a way to keep the affair going. I cannot say I was unhappy because, before the affair, I was happy nearly all the time. I can’t say that it “just happened.” It didn’t. I allowed it to happen.
> 
> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally. I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him. I do not know what possessed me!!!!! What was I thinking????? He forgave me for some inappropriate texting but once he learned the affair went physical, he walked away and never looked back. Our divorce was final last month and I am dying. I can’t eat, I can’t sleep, I can’t stop weeping and the stress and sadness is sometimes overwhelming. I’ve lost a husband who literally worshipped the ground I walked on and I also lost the respect of my children as well as many of my friends.
> 
> He left me a year ago and I have believed this entire time he would forgive me and take me back. I thought I knew him better than he knew himself. He never gave me any hope that my affair was forgivable, however, throughout the years he had conditioned me to believe he could not live without me. I truly believed he could not live without me. I thought he would give me another chance. I figured that if I got myself into therapy, proved to him how incredibly sorry I was, did the right things, said the right words, that eventually he would give me a chance to prove how so very sorry I am for what I did. That hasn’t happened. Obviously, he can live without me after-all, however, I do not believe I can live without him.
> 
> I think sometimes that I literally cannot live another day. It never leaves my mind and there are times that the pain is so great that I just fall apart. Sometimes, out of nowhere my eyes will well up and I began sobbing. Sometimes uncontrollably and anywhere; in a restaurant, at home, at the grocery store, at work, I will suddenly just fall apart. I had a perfect, wonderful and blessed life that for some reason I felt I had to completely trash. My husband was perfect in every way imaginable. He was faithful true and kind to the fullest extent.
> 
> When my husband first voiced his concern with the volumn of text messages between me and ‘just a friend’, I was terrified that he would think less of me. He had always had me on this pedestal and I somehow knew that it would be easier to convince him that he was the problem and not me, so I proceeded to tear him down, convincing him that he was narrow minded, controlling and just plain jealous. I convinced him that he was the one who needed therapy. Not a proud moment.
> 
> Some months later he found some inappropriate texts and pictures between me and OM, but, by this time I had become the liar and cheater and everything in between that I loathed in a person. I was also deep in the fog. I loved my husband but truly needed to continue my relationship with OM so we took it underground. We bought burner phones, set up new email accounts and would meet whenever possible. At this point it was not a PA and that’s where I drew the line. I enjoyed being able to drive OM crazy, he complimented me like crazy and he was always starving to see me.
> 
> I never intended for the affair to get physical. I had myself convinced that it was just some harmless fun. I was not looking for love or sex, my husband gave me an abundancy of both, however, I had become addicted to the attention and I used sex to make sure I continued to get it. Sick, I know it.
> 
> I am not expecting anyone to understand this because, after all this time, I do not understand it myself. It is something I just did. I cannot tell you how I wish I could undo it. I wake up crying when I realize it is not just awful dream. I actually did this. I deserve absolutely no pity or compassion from my husband, my children, friends, family nor anyone reading these words. I did not confess to my infidelity. My husband caught me and I will never forget how horrible it was. With tears in his eyes he shouted and screamed at me. He wanted to know how could I do this to him, to us, to our family…..My God. I don’t know. All the while I stood there shaking, ashamed, humiliated and in shock, knowing there was nothing I could say.
> 
> The most awful, heartbreaking and terrifying thing I remember about that day was witnessing his love and care for me turn into pure hatred and distain. I hate me too. I hate every day. I am in therapy and although I have a little more insight into why I did the things I did, it certainly does not excuse my behavior. My now X-husband is a beautiful person, a wonderful man and a great father and yet, I cheated on him anyway. I do not know what I was thinking and I still do not know what is wrong with me. I have always loved him so much. I adore him and know that I do not want to live this life without him. How could I have hurt him the way I did. I do not know how to fix what I’ve broken and I do not even know what is broken within me. One of my therapist said it was my attempt at self-medicating a traumatic childhood. If that be the case, I am here to say that it did not work, it only left me feeling angry, empty and filled with more self-loathing. My upbringing was inconsistent and horrifically verbally and physically abusive particularly from my daddy; so yes, I have serious daddy issues, but I never had issues with my husband.
> 
> Why did I write all this? Because I want my husband back and I will wait for him. What else can I do. I have done a lot of reading in this forum and others and it seems that in most cases, eventually the BS will give the marriage or relationship another chance. *My now XH said he could make no promises. that the divorce is something he had to do for now and that who knows what the future might hold. He told me to live my life and that one day he might be knocking on my door; or not.*
> 
> My question to you is very selfish, I know. Most or all here have experienced betrayal. After hearing my story, and considering your experiences with this forum, do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance? Hope was wonderful this last year, but since the divorce, I find it very difficult to hold on to hope.
> 
> Please, try not to bash me. I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. I am asking for something constructive to help me either, move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely. I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.


Did the affair ever go physical? If so for how long? 

The highlighted portion tells me he has not closed the door but he has not left it wide open either. The only thing you can do now is work on you- become a better you. I'm not going to lie for some BSs it is simply a deal break and even if you do R it will take YEARS to recover somewhat form this. 

Aside form therapy are you doing any reading about affairs? How are oyu dealing with your kids?


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## tech-novelist

agenda said:


> Why the freak does someone feel the need to quote the entire original post?
> 
> BANDWIDTH people!


One 30 second video uses 100x the bandwidth that quoted text took. Relax.


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## Truthseeker1

technovelist said:


> One 30 second video uses 100x the bandwidth that quoted text took. Relax.


I guess TAM has quote monitors now....I'll consider myself warned...:surprise:


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## GusPolinski

Truthseeker1 said:


> Did the affair ever go physical? If so for how long?
> 
> The highlighted portion tells me he has not closed the door but he has not left it wide open either. The only thing you can do now is work on you- become a better you. I'm not going to lie for some BSs it is simply a deal break and even if you do R it will take YEARS to recover somewhat form this.
> 
> Aside form therapy are you doing any reading about affairs? How are oyu dealing with your kids?


She mentioned that it went physical, which is what prompted her ex to file.

She also mentioned that she has no idea why she did it, what allowed her to do it, how to fix it, etc. And I'll bet that her ex is aware of this.

My guess is that he fed her a line about not knowing what the future holds to grease the wheels on the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist

agenda said:


> I'm referring to the personal bandwidth of the people who are reading these threads and have to scroll past all that duplicate text.


It is very easy to scroll past a big block of quoted text.

Although I agree that just quoting the whole thing and appending a one-line response is a bit lazy.


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## Truthseeker1

GusPolinski said:


> She mentioned that it went physical, which is what prompted her ex to file.
> 
> She also mentioned that she has no idea why she did it, what allowed her to do it, how to fix it, etc. And I'll bet that her ex is aware of this.
> 
> My guess is that he fed her a line about not knowing what the future holds to grease the wheels on the divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right I missed that Gus...thanks... you are right it could have been to grease the skids on the divorce..sounds like the OPs husband took decisive action and did not look back...it could take him a long time to process it all and to the OP even if you do R what you had before the affair is dead and gone - you need to accept that you lost that - you and your XH would have to build something new and he will never foget the betrayal...


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## WorkingOnMe

Read @tears


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## tech-novelist

agenda said:


> People need to take pride in their posts.
> 
> Just pretend your mother or father are reading your posts. Would they think "That's a fine, streamlined, helpful post" or would they say "Just like our son technovelist, always leaving his stuff around not bothering to clean up after himself".


Um, I wasn't the one who quoted the big block.

So would your mother think "Just like our son agenda who accuses someone of something that someone else did"?


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## lifeistooshort

Well I'd guess the marriage wasn't as perfect as you describe and you've romanticized it in your desire to get him back. 

It's imperative you understand why it happened and why made the choices you did. 

When I say the marriage wasn't perfect I'm not suggesting your hb wasn't an impeccable hb, I'm sure he was. I'm saying that it's highly unlikely in 25 years you guys didn't have normal issues like everyone else.

So take an honest look at your marriage and why you made the decisions you did. Whether your hb takes you back or not you need to understand this, and he might be more inclined to reconsider if he knows you get it.

See right now you've lost everything so of course you feel terrible, but you don't know why you did it.

That is a problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1

lifeistooshort said:


> Well I'd guess the marriage wasn't as perfect as you describe and you've romanticized it in your desire to get him back.
> 
> It's imperative you understand why it happened and why made the choices you did.
> 
> When I say the marriage wasn't perfect I'm not suggesting your hb wasn't an impeccable hb, I'm sure he was. I'm saying that it's highly unlikely in 25 years you guys didn't have normal issues like everyone else.
> 
> So take an honest look at your marriage and why you made the decisions you did. Whether your hb takes you back or not you need to understand this, and he might be more inclined to reconsider if he knows you get it.
> 
> See right now you've lost everything so of course you feel terrible, but you don't know why you did it.
> 
> That is a problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree 100% now is the time for digging and uncovering why you made the cvhoices you did. You are still not a safe partner for your XH - you need to keep working on yourself that is the only think you have control over at this point.

Remember "R" is not an entitlement or a guarantee the only thing you can truly control is becoming a better you.


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## ConanHub

Sorry.

Has your ex started dating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61

Wishes thank you for writing a very hard & poignant reflection on you last year and yourself journey,  I pray that others will read it not with distain but with gratitude that there remorseful people in this world, I truly hope you find peace. Perhaps in being with someone else your husband will it in him to realize that there may be magic left between you too.


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## ConanHub

BTW. Many betrayed do simply divorce.

It is pretty common.

Keep bettering yourself and become a healthy individual.

Who knows?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dash74

Op do you have any similarities with this please dont fib we dont know who you are

http://i.imgur.com/X98dKaX.png


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## Thound

Well you can't do anything about the past all you have is today. Keep working on yourself and move forward.


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## DoneWithHurting

dash74 said:


> Op do you have any similarities with this please dont fib we dont know who you are
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/X98dKaX.png


There's no hope for us good guys is there?
Maybe change my name to constantlylookingovershoulder
:wink2:


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## Happilymarried25

I almost feel sympathy for you as you are in so much pain, but I can imagine your husband was in more pain when he found out about your affair. I would move on with your life, odds are he is going to. From what I have read not many husbands take their wives back after they have an affair, especially if it has gone physical. Wives tend to be more forgiving when their husband cheats. Your husband divorced you so I think he was telling you that he is done. If he hadn't of then I would think there was more of a chance that he would have forgiven you. As to why did you cheat when you had such a good marriage, I'm thinking like a lot of cheaters, you loved the attention and how desired you felt when you were with him.


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## happy as a clam

agenda said:


> Why the freak does someone feel the need to quote the entire original post?
> 
> BANDWIDTH people!


I believe I once posted this identical question. Imagine that!

P.S. I like your new avatar, agenda.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## becareful

You want to know why you cheated on your husband? It's because you are a person of low moral character. I don't say that to be cruel or to look down on you as I'm not a righteous person, either. You say you love your husband, but when he expressed concerns over the volume of text messages, what did you do? You tore him down, you tried to convince him that he was narrow-minded, controlling, and just plain jealous (your words). You convinced him that he was the one who needed therapy. You were so open-minded, you took the emotional affair underground until it turned into a physical affair. You didn't care about your husband's feelings until it was too late.

Go read Lonely Husband's thread on his wife's infidelity. It may help you with your situation. His wife injected a toxin into his soul with her affair, just as you did to your husband. In his case, he leaned on God to restore his marriage. He and his wife started praying together. They sought counseling not only from a secular marriage counselor, but from their pastor as well. 

There are only a handful of people who can help expel the poison from your husband's heart. That's God, you, and maybe his next wife or girlfriend. He may be too proud to ask you to help him heal, as he would rather stew in his disgust, hatred, pain, and depression and allow it to slowly eat away at him until he dies a broken man. Offer to help him heal the brokenness that you caused by going to marriage counseling. Be completely transparent with him. Don't just tell him you're sorry; rather humble yourself before your husband and beg him for his forgiveness. Saying "I'm sorry" means nothing; anybody can say that. Say "Please forgive me" or "I ask for your forgiveness" as those words are more contrite and humbling. Seek forgiveness from God, your husband, and your children. Rather than spend your waking hours letting this pain consume you, why not pour your heart out before the Lord and ask Him to restore your marriage. Even if you are not religious, what would it hurt to give God a try? Pray without ceasing, if the restoration of your marriage is that important to you. I speak from experience; that when you cry out to God from the depth of your soul, He will hear you and He will answer you. Just don't give up if He doesn't answer right when you want Him to.

In my humble opinion, only truly remorseful spouses deserve a second chance. You seem very remorseful but now you have to do the heavy lifting.


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## Peaf

The biggest favor my ex husband did me was to cheat on me (my H feels the same about his ex wifes infidelity). It gave us the opportunity to leave a marriage were we we not cherished,* respected,* valued,* and find someone who would give us all those things and more.*

This is one thing I'd never forgive in a relationship. You had your chance to reconcile when the texting was going on, sounds like you missed the boat. Let this poor guy move on. 

"My now XH said he could make no promises. that the divorce is something he had to do for now and that who knows what the future might hold. He told me to live my life and that one day he might be knocking on my door; or not."

This is probably just to appease you and get the hell out of the marriage with the least possibly resistance.


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## Marc878

Some cannot get over infidelity so do the right thing and move on quickly.

I suspect your husband knew his capabilities and decided not to waste time/life on this.

If that is the case he's done you a favor and not put out hope that this marriage could continue.

You need to understand this and move on like he has. I assume he filed almost immediately after he found out. If you were caught in the act itself it may explain why there could have been no way to fix this.


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## TheTruthHurts

Wishes -I think TAM can help you. This forum is filled with folks who are hurting and might lash out at you if you seem too much like their WS - but even that can help you see the pain that I'm sure you ExH tried not to let you see.

You say you don't know why you did this. That answer will ensure that you don't heal and you don't have a chance at R.

Instead, take your time and explore the A step by step with us. You might discover something.

For example, how did it start? Was it online? In person with a neighbor? Friend? Old acquaintance? Coworker?

Was he older of younger? Good looking? Better looking than H? Be objective and honest. Married or in a relationship?

What did he initially say or do that caught your attention?

It's important to understand how your boundaries were weakened and eventually discarded.

Start there


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## Marc878

Although it's to late for your xH you need to fix yourself for the rest of your life. 

Do this for you. Everyone has a choice in life. Consequences follow the actions we make/take.

Therapy is a good place to start. Take your X's advice and don't waste your life waiting for him.


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## alte Dame

You say that your husband put you on a pedestal, treated you well all the time, loved you unconditionally (he appears to have had at least one condition, though), and gave you the sense that he would forgive you.

It seems to me that this is why you did what you did. You felt entitled. You wanted your cake and eat it, too. Lots of people break the hearts of the people who love them, assuming (often rightly) that they won't face divorce. I don't think your 'why' is that complex. I think you believed you could get away with it even if you got caught, so it was worth the risk. The OM made you feel good for whatever reason and you didn't think you had to stop yourself.

I hope you are leaving your H in peace so that he can heal and move on with his life. You should try harder to move on with yours, in my opinion. Go to counseling and make an effort to give back to society so that you stop focusing so much of your energy on yourself. That is what got you into this in the first place. Try to become a better person by showing some selfless behavior.


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## Affaircare

Wishes said:


> My question to you is very selfish, I know. Most or all here have experienced betrayal. After hearing my story, and considering your experiences with this forum, do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance? Hope was wonderful this last year, but since the divorce, I find it very difficult to hold on to hope.
> 
> Please, try not to bash me. I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. I am asking for something constructive to help me either, move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely. I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.


Wishes, 

A few things for you to know. I believe agenda is a troll, so read posts with a grain of salt, and if a disagreement ensues, don't get pulled into it. Just bear in mind that not all people are hear 'to be helpful'--in fact I suggest that you read EVERYONE's posts with that same thought in mind. It may assist you in winnowing productive advice from less-than-productive advice. 

Second, I also had/have an AMAZING dear hubby, and I also was unfaithful, so I've been in your shoes. So I say this to you as someone who is not a bitter loyal spouse (not that all are bitter, but rather I meant that's just not where I'm coming from), but a recovered disloyal spouse: 

It's time you accept something, and I mean wrap your head and arms and life and mind around it--you hit your marriage with a nuclear bomb and destroyed it. It is dead and gone. And when you hit someone with a nuclear bomb, they do not owe you a second chance. 

Now I'm not trying to make you feel bad here. I actually care about you! I'm trying to reduce your pain by helping you to accept something that you are denying: reality. I know it makes you feel like the dog poop on the bottom of a worm's shoe, but the truth is that the responsibility for your choices is you--and of all the choices in the universe that you could have chosen, you picked "be unfaithful" rather than being honest and facing the truth. 

When an adult person makes that choice, the just and reasonable consequence to that decision is to lose the person to whom you are being unfaithful--outright LOSE them. Never see them again. Never hear from them again. Never smell their cologne or feel their touch or taste their lips. A second chance IS NOT to be expected!!

I tell you this, because you say that you thought you knew him better than he knew himself, and it sounds to me as if you had the expectation in your head that if you did and/or said the right "magic words" that you expected him to give you a second chance. Nope. That's not how it works. 

Here's how it works: envision murder. Your dear hubby was alive and you made a choice and did an action that resulted in his death. He is DEAD now. And you can not say magic words to make him be alive or make him be "the way it was." Even if he did, somehow, by some miracle, come back to life, as a result of the action you took, he would be forever changed--maybe paralyzed or brain damaged or scarred. That is reality. 

So no second chance is owed to you, and if by the grace of God he did give you a second chance, whatever you'd have would be ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than what you had before. HE would be forever profoundly changed. You will also be forever profoundly changed--and you get to choose if you are changed for the better or for the worse. You can choose if you are going to grow as a person and face your issues and mature...or if you are going to continue to run from yourself and continue to make immature choices. 

I'm not going to tell you if you should "wait and hope" he gives you a second chance or if you should give up hope and move on. That is YOUR choice to make. What I am going to tell you is that it is not JUSTICE for you to expect him to give you a second chance. You dropped a bomb on the marriage and what that was is now nuclear waste. It's gone. Stop looking for that second chance and start facing the fact that "the way it was" is dead and gone. 

If you want to embrace that the old marriage is dead and can not be revived, and you still choose to take the time to show him you have changed--with your ACTIONS and not your WORDS--then that is your choice. You can choose that, it's cool. But bear in mind you made the choice to willingly, voluntarily WAIT and give him the time he may need. It may be forever. He may not be able to get passed it and that is HIS choice to make. 

Okay?


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## aine

I hear your pain, but after getting caught with all the texting that did not stop you, you took it underground, so to my mind, you would still be at it until your poor long suffering H actually caught you. You didn't stop for one moment to think about he was hurting, as the saying goes, what goes around comes around.
Unfortunately, in life there are usually consequences. Most of your post is about poor you, someone once wrote that cheaters usually go through a 3 fold process to pull the wool over the eyes of the BS, 

charm their way out
use indignant anger
self- pity

I bet you tried all three and now are in the self pity mode. I am sorry to say (and happy for your poor H) he has moved on and I hope he finds a woman who will treat him the way he deserves.
I am not buying your sob story about your past, many of us have Daddy issues, ****ty upbringing, etc that's a pile of BS and you know it. You made your bed dearie, now lie in it.


----------



## aine

Affaircare, 
nice to see you online and as usual a balanced, considerate and compassionate response


----------



## NoChoice

Wishes said:


> I am new here. Joined today. If I am posting in the wrong section please let me know. I looked over the different options and this seemed to apply.
> 
> I will start this by saying that I cheated on my husband. *I really do not understand how or why I could have done such a thing* because it is so deeply out of character. I have always been a nice girl, loving and faithful wife, and a good mother. It was not a case of temporary insanity because I had many reality checks along the way but always found a way to keep the affair going. I cannot say I was unhappy because, before the affair, I was happy nearly all the time. I can’t say that it “just happened.” It didn’t. I allowed it to happen.
> 
> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally. I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him.* I do not know what possessed me!!!!! What was I thinking*????? He forgave me for some inappropriate texting but once he learned the affair went physical, he walked away and never looked back. Our divorce was final last month and I am dying. I can’t eat, I can’t sleep, I can’t stop weeping and the stress and sadness is sometimes overwhelming. I’ve lost a husband who literally worshipped the ground I walked on and I also lost the respect of my children as well as many of my friends.
> 
> He left me a year ago and I have believed this entire time he would forgive me and take me back. I thought I knew him better than he knew himself. He never gave me any hope that my affair was forgivable, however, throughout the years he had conditioned me to believe he could not live without me. I truly believed he could not live without me. I thought he would give me another chance. I figured that if I got myself into therapy, proved to him how incredibly sorry I was, did the right things, said the right words, that eventually he would give me a chance to prove how so very sorry I am for what I did. That hasn’t happened. Obviously, he can live without me after-all, however, I do not believe I can live without him.
> 
> I think sometimes that I literally cannot live another day. It never leaves my mind and there are times that the pain is so great that I just fall apart. Sometimes, out of nowhere my eyes will well up and I began sobbing. Sometimes uncontrollably and anywhere; in a restaurant, at home, at the grocery store, at work, I will suddenly just fall apart. I had a perfect, wonderful and blessed life that for some reason I felt I had to completely trash. My husband was perfect in every way imaginable. He was faithful true and kind to the fullest extent.
> 
> When my husband first voiced his concern with the volumn of text messages between me and ‘just a friend’, I was terrified that he would think less of me. He had always had me on this pedestal and I somehow knew that it would be easier to convince him that he was the problem and not me, so I proceeded to tear him down, convincing him that he was narrow minded, controlling and just plain jealous. I convinced him that he was the one who needed therapy. Not a proud moment.
> 
> Some months later he found some inappropriate texts and pictures between me and OM, but, by this time I had become the liar and cheater and everything in between that I loathed in a person. I was also deep in the fog. I loved my husband but truly needed to continue my relationship with OM so we took it underground. We bought burner phones, set up new email accounts and would meet whenever possible. At this point it was not a PA and that’s where I drew the line. I enjoyed being able to drive OM crazy, he complimented me like crazy and he was always starving to see me.
> 
> I never intended for the affair to get physical. I had myself convinced that it was just some harmless fun. I was not looking for love or sex, my husband gave me an abundancy of both, however, I had become addicted to the attention and I used sex to make sure I continued to get it. Sick, I know it.
> 
> I am not expecting anyone to understand this because, after all this time, *I do not understand it myself*. It is something I just did. I cannot tell you how I wish I 29E7743B-91B2-4E5E-AFA3-BBD0FB4A24CD undo it. I wake up crying when I realize it is not just awful dream. I actually did this. I deserve absolutely no pity or compassion from my husband, my children, friends, family nor anyone reading these words. *I did not confess to my infidelity*. My husband caught me and I will never forget how horrible it was. With tears in his eyes he shouted and screamed at me. He wanted to know how could I do this to him, to us, to our family…..My God. *I don’t know.* All the while I stood there shaking, ashamed, humiliated and in shock, knowing there was nothing I could say.
> 
> The most awful, heartbreaking and terrifying thing I remember about that day was witnessing his love and care for me turn into pure hatred and distain. I hate me too. I hate every day. I am in therapy and although I have a little more insight into why I did the things I did, it certainly does not excuse my behavior. My now X-husband is a beautiful person, a wonderful man and a great father and yet, I cheated on him anyway. *I do not know what I was thinking and I still do not know what is wrong with me*. I have always loved him so much. I adore him and know that I do not want to live this life without him. How could I have hurt him the way I did. I do not know how to fix what I’ve broken and* I do not even know what is broken within me.* One of my therapist said it was my attempt at self-medicating a traumatic childhood. If that be the case, I am here to say that it did not work, it only left me feeling angry, empty and filled with more self-loathing. My upbringing was inconsistent and horrifically verbally and physically abusive particularly from my daddy; so yes, I have serious daddy issues, but I never had issues with my husband.
> 
> Why did I write all this? Because I want my husband back and I will wait for him. What else can I do. I have done a lot of reading in this forum and others and it seems that in most cases, eventually the BS will give the marriage or relationship another chance. My now XH said he could make no promises. that the divorce is something he had to do for now and that who knows what the future might hold. He told me to live my life and that one day he might be knocking on my door; or not.
> 
> My question to you is very selfish, I know. Most or all here have experienced betrayal. After hearing my story, and considering your experiences with this forum, do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance? Hope was wonderful this last year, but since the divorce, I find it very difficult to hold on to hope.
> 
> Please, try not to bash me. I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. I am asking for something constructive to help me either, move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely. I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.


OP,
This is very problematic. Without the knowledge and subsequent understanding of why you did this how can your exH know, with any degree of certainty, that you will not repeat this behavior?

Until you discover the answer as to why and how you could do such a thing you will not be a good spouse to anyone. It is easy to divert blame by claiming ignorance but in reality you are, at your heart, a very selfish, self serving immature person.

Until you can come to grips with that and truly change, from the core of your being, if that is even possible, then your ExH would be taking a huge risk in reconciling with you. In fact, any dedicated man would be risking injury by entering into a relationship with you.

You mentioned how deeply you love your exH but there is someone you love much much more, yourself. It is highly unlikely that you will/can see and accept this fact but you will continue to be a very high risk investment until you do.

If you have any real concern for your exH do not even attempt to rejoin with him until you correct this issue. Does he not deserve at least that? Your willingness to attempt reconciliation with him in your current state shows that you are more desirous of your wants than his safety for without an understanding of your actions you cannot guarantee that you will not repeat this behavior.

And you will then have the knowledge that he forgave you once and will most likely do so again. You are feeling your pain and loss but until you can truly feel his and place his happiness above your own, then you are simply continuing to act out of selfishness.

Severe hardship does occasionally spur growth and perhaps this has caused you to experience a small amount but you have much more to learn about yourself, you're not there yet, not by a long shot.

Continue to work on bettering you and allow your exH to find someone who will put him above all else. If you truly care for him, his happiness would supersede your own and that is what you would want for him. I wish you good fortune as you attempt to grow up.


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## plomito

Here is the thing, i can't tell you he moved on because we don't know what he is going through, for all we know he can be reading this and feeling the same way.

In my case when i discovered the affair i was hurting for a while and for as much as i wanted to fix things between us, my anger and hate for both was so big that any attempt to fix things would had failed. The best move at that moment was to make no moves at all. I just decided to remove myself from the equation, and go find me again, learn to let go of that episode and that hate that i had in me. Would i consider ever fixing things with her? I can't answer that yet.

I believe he is hurting but he removed himself to avoid hurting you or doing something that later he will regret. Have faith, don't beg and move on. Work on you, start doing activities that will help you build yourself back, and you never know, maybe one day he will be at the corner waiting for you to say hi.


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## Marc878

This would be a good read to put yourself in his shoes. 

Most folks only think of themselves. It's all about your feelings/pain, etc.

Things that every wayward spouse needs to know - LoveShack.org Community Forums


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## always_hopefull

@Wishes, I'm truly sorry you are hurting, however, I can assure you your ex's pain is much greater. Due mostly on the fact that you chose to have an affair. Your ex didn't willingly roll the dice, he reacted to your choices and actions. That being said I truly hope you are getting some counseling. I suggest you start moving on with your new life, starting by letting go of your exh. Do not wait for him as you will be wasting your life if he never shows.

As for more information, do you have children, do they know? Are you, or were you a SAHM, or did you/do you work? What happened to your OM, was he married, did he face any consequences?


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## whitewolf

I am pretty sure I have read the story of Wishes affair, as told by her husband, on another forum. He described the marriage and the affair the same way Wishes did. He posted an update after his divorce was final. He even said he loved his wife with all his heart but could not live with her after he found out about the PA. He describes everything the same way Wishes did. His posting is in much more detail.


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## GusPolinski

dash74 said:


> Op do you have any similarities with this please dont fib we dont know who you are
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/X98dKaX.png


Read through some of that.

Wow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

dash74 said:


> Op do you have any similarities with this please dont fib we dont know who you are
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/X98dKaX.png


You should post this over in SIM.


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## sparrow555

How often do you keep in touch with him ?

Is he dating someone ?

Who was the guy you had the affair with ?


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## farsidejunky

Affaircare said:


> Wishes,
> 
> A few things for you to know. I believe agenda is a troll, so read posts with a grain of salt, and if a disagreement ensues, don't get pulled into it. Just bear in mind that not all people are hear 'to be helpful'--in fact I suggest that you read EVERYONE's posts with that same thought in mind. It may assist you in winnowing productive advice from less-than-productive advice.
> 
> Second, I also had/have an AMAZING dear hubby, and I also was unfaithful, so I've been in your shoes. So I say this to you as someone who is not a bitter loyal spouse (not that all are bitter, but rather I meant that's just not where I'm coming from), but a recovered disloyal spouse:
> 
> It's time you accept something, and I mean wrap your head and arms and life and mind around it--you hit your marriage with a nuclear bomb and destroyed it. It is dead and gone. And when you hit someone with a nuclear bomb, they do not owe you a second chance.
> 
> Now I'm not trying to make you feel bad here. I actually care about you! I'm trying to reduce your pain by helping you to accept something that you are denying: reality. I know it makes you feel like the dog poop on the bottom of a worm's shoe, but the truth is that the responsibility for your choices is you--and of all the choices in the universe that you could have chosen, you picked "be unfaithful" rather than being honest and facing the truth.
> 
> When an adult person makes that choice, the just and reasonable consequence to that decision is to lose the person to whom you are being unfaithful--outright LOSE them. Never see them again. Never hear from them again. Never smell their cologne or feel their touch or taste their lips. A second chance IS NOT to be expected!!
> 
> I tell you this, because you say that you thought you knew him better than he knew himself, and it sounds to me as if you had the expectation in your head that if you did and/or said the right "magic words" that you expected him to give you a second chance. Nope. That's not how it works.
> 
> Here's how it works: envision murder. Your dear hubby was alive and you made a choice and did an action that resulted in his death. He is DEAD now. And you can not say magic words to make him be alive or make him be "the way it was." Even if he did, somehow, by some miracle, come back to life, as a result of the action you took, he would be forever changed--maybe paralyzed or brain damaged or scarred. That is reality.
> 
> So no second chance is owed to you, and if by the grace of God he did give you a second chance, whatever you'd have would be ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than what you had before. HE would be forever profoundly changed. You will also be forever profoundly changed--and you get to choose if you are changed for the better or for the worse. You can choose if you are going to grow as a person and face your issues and mature...or if you are going to continue to run from yourself and continue to make immature choices.
> 
> I'm not going to tell you if you should "wait and hope" he gives you a second chance or if you should give up hope and move on. That is YOUR choice to make. What I am going to tell you is that it is not JUSTICE for you to expect him to give you a second chance. You dropped a bomb on the marriage and what that was is now nuclear waste. It's gone. Stop looking for that second chance and start facing the fact that "the way it was" is dead and gone.
> 
> If you want to embrace that the old marriage is dead and can not be revived, and you still choose to take the time to show him you have changed--with your ACTIONS and not your WORDS--then that is your choice. You can choose that, it's cool. But bear in mind you made the choice to willingly, voluntarily WAIT and give him the time he may need. It may be forever. He may not be able to get passed it and that is HIS choice to make.
> 
> Okay?


Have missed you around here, @Affaircare

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## EllisRedding

Some people are just unable/unwilling to look past a cheater (tbh I would be one of those people). After reading your post I would like to think the way you describe your H is how my W would describe me. If my W ever cheated I would react the same way as your H, no matter how strong my feelings are for her I would lose all respect for her and simply move on with my life with no chance of reconciliation. It sounds like your H has already done that, and I don't believe you will ever really be able to move on with your life if you hope that one day he will come back to you. Now is the time to work on yourself and most importantly, try to fix the damage you have done to the relationship with your children.


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## farsidejunky

jld said:


> You should post this over in SIM.


Why?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## jld

farsidejunky said:


> Why?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


It might offer some understanding to others going through the same thing.


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## Wishes

Sports Fan said:


> Wow. Just wow. It is great that you have accepted responsbility for your actions. After a year apart i would say chances are minimal that he will take you back. Obviously despite his unconditional love for you his line in the sand was a Physical Affair.


 Your "Wow. Just wow," send shivers down my spine, but I get it. I do. Pretty bad, huh? His line in the sand, as he explained it was, three strikes, you're out. First he registered his concern with my preoccupation with texting; then he discovered the disgusting texts and pictures exchanged between myself and OM, and third strike is when he assumed it was a PA. 
I appreciate your support.



GusPolinski said:


> Sounds like he's moved on.
> You should probably do the same.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He has moved on but I cannot do the same. There is no place for me to go. 



G.J. said:


> So what was it about the POS you craved so much
> sex different..better..kinkier
> Just compliments
> The thrill of deceit


The Power was intoxicating and the ego trip.




agenda said:


> Your cheating was not out of character.
> Your actions define you.


 Books have been written on that subject. Is my character defined by the 46 years I lived before my affair, the 9 months of my affair or the year that has passed since the affair? I am not necessarily making a statement, I am asking a question?


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## Truthseeker1

Wishes said:


> Your "Wow. Just wow," send shivers down my spine, but I get it. I do. Pretty bad, huh? His line in the sand, as he explained it was, three strikes, you're out. First he registered his concern with my preoccupation with texting; then he discovered the disgusting texts and pictures exchanged between myself and OM, and third strike is when he assumed it was a PA.
> I appreciate your support.
> 
> 
> He has moved on but I cannot do the same. There is no place for me to go.
> 
> 
> The Power was intoxicating and the ego trip.
> 
> 
> *Books have been written on that subject. Is my character defined by the 46 years I lived before my affair, the 9 months of my affair or the year that has passed since the affair? I am not necessarily making a statement, I am asking a question?*


 @Wishes - there is where your work lies - to figure out why now? why would you engage in such devastating behavior? perhaps this is a side of you that was doormant for decades and then popped out - perhpas not but only you can figure that out...


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## MattMatt

It was not the cheating that made him realise that there could be no reconciliation.

It was the fact that you deliberately tore him down, smashed his psyche and convinced him that he was mentally ill.

In fact your games DID make your husband mentally ill to some extent.

You relied on your husband's love for you to enable him to forgive you.

And you know something? Had you not tore him down and broke his manhood and his sense of self, he may well have forgiven you.

You have apologised for cheating on him

Have you apologised for tearing him down? If not, do so.

You never know that just might help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wishes

Truthseeker1 said:


> Did the affair ever go physical? If so for how long?
> 
> The highlighted portion tells me he has not closed the door but he has not left it wide open either. The only thing you can do now is work on you- become a better you. I'm not going to lie for some BSs it is simply a deal break and even if you do R it will take YEARS to recover somewhat form this.
> 
> Aside form therapy are you doing any reading about affairs? How are oyu dealing with your kids?


 Yes, the affair did go physical for about two months. I would have to read the text messages to know exactly but probably about two months and I absolutely have no desire to read over the sick, sick, sick text messages exchanged between myself and OM.

The part that you highlighted is the place my life is hanging right now. I have not been able to pressure him for reconciliation because that is a subject he will not discuss with me. He has never discussed it. In the beginning his anger was such that he did not trust himself to speak to me at all. Several months later we did discuss in detail everything that I had done. 



GusPolinski said:


> She also mentioned that she has no idea why she did it, what allowed her to do it, how to fix it, etc. And I'll bet that her ex is aware of this.
> 
> My guess is that he fed her a line about not knowing what the future holds to grease the wheels on the divorce.


 No, I do not know why I did it. All of the rationalizations I used at the time are really sad. 
No, he did not need to feed me a line to grease the wheels. I told him from the beginning I would not contest the divorce nor would I seek representation by attorney. When he brought papers for me to sigh, I did not even read. I signed. 
It wasn't much but it was the least I could do.


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## Truthseeker1

MattMatt said:


> It was not the cheating that made him realise that there could be no reconciliation.
> 
> It was the fact that you deliberately tore him down, smashed his psyche and convinced him that he was mentally ill.
> 
> In fact your games DID make your husband mentally ill to some extent.
> 
> You relied on your husband's love for you to enable him to forgive you.
> 
> And you know something? Had you not tore him down and broke his manhood and his sense of self, he may well have forgiven you.
> 
> You have apologised for cheating on him
> 
> Have you apologised for tearing him down? If not, do so.
> 
> You never know that just might help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excellent points - when a spouse cheats its like pulling the pin on a hand grenade - you don't know what the exact results are going to be but it's not going to be good. By you tearing him down that compounded the damage - the affair is bad enough but combined with sh!tty behavior you must be able to see why he left and never looked back. "R" is not an entitlement - a gift when give which in effect allows the cheater to get away with their affair on some level. Which is why true "R" is rare.


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## Lostinthought61

I hope you stay around TAM, for several reasons, first to help others grasp the other side of the coin, you can provide a perspective to BS who are trying to understand what is going on in their spouses head.... providing a refer of reference that they themselves can not see. additionally you might find it cathartic, in dealing with your own issues and hopes. an opportunity to further express the various paths that brought you here, much in the same way that brings us all here, and help in taking us to our next version of ourselves.


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## Wishes

lifeistooshort said:


> Well I'd guess the marriage wasn't as perfect as you describe and you've romanticized it in your desire to get him back.
> 
> It's imperative you understand why it happened and why made the choices you did.
> 
> When I say the marriage wasn't perfect I'm not suggesting your hb wasn't an impeccable hb, I'm sure he was. I'm saying that it's highly unlikely in 25 years you guys didn't have normal issues like everyone else.


 This is a problem. My marriage was almost perfect. My husband? Well, I would have to think hard and long to come up with a flaw. He is the product of very good parenting, a very gently nature and forgiving spirit. I am the one who brought baggage into the relationship and he never really seemed to notice.

I will finish this later today. Have to leave for work now. 
And by the way, another result of my adultery...work.
I was a sahm; not anymore.


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## philreag

Something positive....You write well.


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## Marc878

I'm assuming there are children involved. Is there much contact now other than over the children?

Did you explain/apologize for manipulating, tearing him down during the affair?

I'm assuming this was to hide the affair and/or to justify it? Perhaps both?


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## GusPolinski

@Wishes, you mentioned that your ex caught you in the affair... did he actually catch you in the act w/ OM?

Was/is OM married? If so, was the affair exposed to his spouse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

There are no excuses for this behavior but it sounds like your husband may have been to nice causing you to lose respect or at least take advantage of him. Even so this was 100% on you.

The other thing is a MLC gave you the added excuse to go over the edge. I'm not convinced on this theory but it seems plausible. 

Again a lot of people have bad childhoods, go through MLC's and don't cheat. Was this behavior or thought of this behavior always there?


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## Truthseeker1

Wishes said:


> This is a problem. My marriage was almost perfect. My husband? Well, I would have to think hard and long to come up with a flaw. He is the product of very good parenting, a very gently nature and forgiving spirit. I am the one who brought baggage into the relationship and he never really seemed to notice.
> 
> I will finish this later today. Have to leave for work now.
> And by the way, another result of my adultery...work.
> I was a sahm; not anymore.


Perhaps your husband was too trusting and too naive about your baggage? That is a problem being too trusting or naive about what other people are capable of will bite you in the end.


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## jorgegene

wow. 25 years down the drain.

this is really sad for both of you.

you sound sincere and devastated (as you should be).

time will only tell, but hopefully you will both heal and find some degree of serenity and happiness again.


----------



## bfree

Truthseeker1 said:


> @Wishes - there is where your work lies - to figure out why now? why would you engage in such devastating behavior? perhaps this is a side of you that was doormant for decades and then popped out - perhpas not but only you can figure that out...


Agreed.

Wishes, what is your husband's last memories of you? Is it the faithful good wife and mother he saw for decades? Or is it a deceitful adulteress who cruelly gaslighted him and tore him down? Which woman do you think he sees when he looks at you in his mind's eye. You ask who you are. I'm sure he wonders the same. And if neither of you know who you are then why should he ever trust you in a relationship again?


----------



## michzz

Wishes said:


> Your "Wow. Just wow," send shivers down my spine, but I get it. I do. Pretty bad, huh? His line in the sand, as he explained it was, three strikes, you're out. First he registered his concern with my preoccupation with texting; then he discovered the disgusting texts and pictures exchanged between myself and OM, and third strike is when he assumed it was a PA.
> I appreciate your support.
> 
> 
> He has moved on but I cannot do the same. There is no place for me to go.
> 
> 
> The Power was intoxicating and the ego trip.
> 
> 
> Books have been written on that subject. Is my character defined by the 46 years I lived before my affair, the 9 months of my affair or the year that has passed since the affair? I am not necessarily making a statement, I am asking a question?


Your character incorporates all of your behavior. You can't excise a piece of it because your true nature was found out.

What you can do is dilute the impact of that part of you that is willing to behave badly, by never doing that again.

Will doing so bring back your ex-husband? Probably not.

But that is not the point, it's not goal-oriented with a reward.

Other than, of course, personal integrity.

Going back to your original posting, it is confusing to me to see that you say that you do not know why you betrayed your husband, a man you describe as a really great husband.

I believe that you know why but do not want to claim the reasons as your own.

You will not progress until you own those reasons and can admit to them.


----------



## Jeffery

Hello and wellcome. . 

You briefly mentioned your children. How many and how old are they? What do they know as to why you are divorced? How do they treat you ? Who do they live with? 
Also what makes you think your exh has moved on?


----------



## ThePheonix

Wishes said:


> This is a problem. My marriage was almost perfect. My husband? Well, I would have to think hard and long to come up with a flaw. He is the product of very good parenting, a very gently nature and forgiving spirit.


The problem is you lost interest in him because he was not a challenge. You had him lock, stock, and barrel and because of that he lost that certain mystique. You are now chomping at the bits because he's now a challenge. As the saying goes, "people tend to want what the don't have".
I keep warning these guys about not remaining a challenge, even after married a number of years. I'm likely one of the most senior members here and I, like your husband said to you, will love my wife forever. But I, like your husband, knows that when forever is over, we're gone. Maybe he'll drift back to you someday, but its not likely melady.


----------



## EllisRedding

Wishes said:


> No, I do not know why I did it. All of the rationalizations I used at the time are really sad.


Can you expand on what the rationalizations were? Just curious since everything you say about your H, I have a hard time wrapping my head around what the rationalizations could have been, except agreeing with @ThePheonix that you lost interest b/c he wasn't a challenge and the idea of something forbidden appealed to you.

Also, what do you think your H could have done, if anything, that would have kept you from cheating?


----------



## funengineer

I'm just curios 

who is the other guy and where did you meet him? was he younger or older? was he better looking than your husband? and your first physical where was it and was it planned? the rest of your physicals where did they take place?


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## Acoa

@Wishes, 

I know very well your XH emotional journey. It very closely parallels my own. Read http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/62404-need-help-coping.html if you want for my journey. 

Our marriage was not as perfect as the one you describe, but it was pretty good. Perhaps you are idealizing things, but I don't think that matters. Minor flaws or no flaws, I don't think it changes your XH's response.

Your response to his inquiry on texting was the fatal mistake. Yes, what you were doing was awful. Toying with another man's affections to inflate your own ego is a moral defect of character. But twisting your husband's suspicion and making him feel crazy for even questioning you was unforgivable. My XW did the same to me.

Now I question so much our past. Small details come back to me, fragments of memories where I question what really happened. How many lies did she feed me? I see in hindsight some of the things she said were really evil. All in an effort to keep me from knowing the truth. 

We could never reconcile, as I will never trust her again. The lies were many, and they were awful. She used my love for her as a weapon against me. So, I'll never give her that power again.

My advice to you is to learn from your experience. Live a genuine life. Monogamy isn't for everyone, if it's not for you just be honest about that. If you think it is for you, then dig deep and understand why you sought out another man's attention when you had a perfectly good H at home. 

And be honest in all things. When trying to hold up the image of being a 'good wife', it's easy to see why one wouldn't admit to having illicit communication with another man. But that cover up is the gasoline you tossed on the match. True intimacy requires absolute honest. If, on Dday 1 my XW would have been 100% honest about her affairs (yes, there were multiple), we could have made things work. I even told her this. But she was more concerned about her 'good girl' image. So, she lied. And worse, made me feel crazy for suspecting. Then even worse, continued the affairs and continued lying and playing the victim. It was because of that we will never reconcile. 

Perhaps your H is in a similar spot as me. I don't hate my XW. I loved her for decades. We have 3 beautiful kids together. But I'll always guard my heart against her. To even consider a second attempt R makes me depressed. The anxiety and mistrust would kill me. I would become and angry, jealous and controlling man. And that's not who I am. Or worse, i'd fall for her again and risk the type of pain I've already went through. I don't think I could survive that. No, best that I move on. Best for everyone involved.


----------



## LonelyinLove

I suspect things were not as great as you think they were or the attention from someone else would not have been so meaningful.


----------



## TDSC60

Many times both spouses become too comfortable in the marriage. This looks like what happened here. As a SAHM, she got addicted to the thrill and attention she got from OM and eventually took it physical to keep the attention coming (an all too common story). Her husband (of 25 yrs?) was so comfortable and trusting with her he just could not imagine the possibility of her cheating on him. This is a trap that many SAHMs with a lengthy marriage fall into.

Wishes - your husband might come to talk to you about R in the future, but your treatment of him (try to place the blame on him) will not be an easy thing to get past for him. It may take a long time. But if you are willing to wait - who knows what could happen. One thing for sure is that if he gets word of you dating, he will be done with you.

Are you still in contact with him? Does he appear interested in how you are doing and how therapy is progressing? If so, he might be willing in the future.


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## ConanHub

LonelyinLove said:


> I suspect things were not as great as you think they were or the attention from someone else would not have been so meaningful.


Or...

She had it good for a long time and started feeling complacent, entitled and took her good marriage for granted.

It honestly appears from her posts that she did take her husband for granted and let herself do some playing on the side.

She isn't the first person to blow a good thing and unfortunately won't be the last.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad

Anyone else think this bait, I mean story, was TOO well written?

Spider.... senses..... tingling..... Hope I'm wrong.


----------



## snerg

BetrayedDad said:


> Anyone else think this bait, I mean story, was TOO well written?
> 
> Spider.... senses..... tingling..... Hope I'm wrong.


I swear this same story was here something like 6 or 7 moths ago.

The thing that made me wonder was that "he had to go through with the divorce". The other story was big on that part as well.

If it's not, then it's a pretty good indicator that almost all affairs follow the same rules (yeah, there is a nuance here and there that's different).

I would say in this case, it a matter of selfishness and entitlement.
OP you said you were in IC - ask about the above two items. How does your counselor think they figure in to your actions and attitude?


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## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> This is a problem. My marriage was almost perfect. *My husband? Well, I would have to think hard and long to come up with a flaw. *He is the product of very good parenting, a very gently nature and forgiving spirit. I am the one who brought baggage into the relationship and he never really seemed to notice.
> 
> I will finish this later today. Have to leave for work now.
> And by the way, another result of my adultery...work.
> *I was a sahm; not anymore.*


I think it took a lot of courage for you to come hear and tell us your story. 

So that we can get a better picture of this situation, can you answer some questions for me? Answering these might allow us to come up with more refined suggestions as to what you can do for your XH going forwards. 

1) How old are you and your husband? 

2) Are your children grown or still at home? 

3) You said your husband caught you and that is how he found out. What were the circumstances? Did he actually catch you with the OM, find your texts or emails, or catch you in the act of sexting the OM? 

4) Once the affair went physical, how many times total did you meet with the OM to have sex?

5) Where did your meetups with the OM take place? 

6) Did you ever have sex with the OM in your own home or on the marital bed? 

7) How much of your shared household money went to fund your affair? 

8) Was the OM a friend of the family or friend of your husband's? 

9) How old is the OM? 

10) How does your husband stack up to the OM? Is he uglier, more handsome, in better shape, in worse shape? 

11) Were you still physically attracted to your husband when you started up with the OM? 

12) How was your husband in bed? Were you satisfied sexually with him? Was the OM a better lover? 

13) You said the texts/e-mails between you and OM were pretty lurid. Were there things you did sexually with the OM that you had beforehand refused or shied away from doing with hubby?

I'm not asking these questions to embarrass you, but these questions are the same questions that are churning in your husband's mind, I can guarantee you.


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## bandit.45

snerg said:


> I swear this same story was here something like 6 or 7 moths ago.
> 
> The thing that made me wonder was that "he had to go through with the divorce". The other story was big on that part as well.
> 
> If it's not, then it's a pretty good indicator that almost all affairs follow the same rules (yeah, there is a nuance here and there that's different).
> 
> I would say in this case, it a matter of selfishness and entitlement.
> OP you said you were in IC - ask about the above two items. How does your counselor think they figure in to your actions and attitude?


This story has been repeated a dozen times in the 4 years I've been on this site. The script doesn't change much.


----------



## bandit.45

ConanHub said:


> Or...
> 
> She had it good for a long time and started feeling complacent, entitled and took her good marriage for granted.
> 
> It honestly appears from her posts that she did take her husband for granted and let herself do some playing on the side.
> 
> She isn't the first person to blow a good thing and unfortunately won't be the last.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't forget boredom, and maybe empty-nest syndrome. She was a SAHM for most of the marriage. Once the kids are gone or no longer dependent on mom driving them back and forth, many SAHMs end up with lots of time on their hands, lots of time to surf the web, and lots of opportunity to get themselves into trouble.


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## Decorum

Can someone pm me a link to the husbands thread?

Thanks


----------



## farsidejunky

Decorum said:


> Can someone pm me a link to the husbands thread?
> 
> Thanks


Same.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Truthseeker1

bandit.45 said:


> This story has been repeated a dozen times in the 4 years I've been on this site. The script doesn't change much.


QFT - no it doesn't the cheating playbook is used by all cheaters - the Op seems to be taking full responsibility for her decisions - but that still doesn't guarantee a successful R


----------



## Decorum

Wishes,

This is so disturbing. Wishes I feel sympathy for you, it is sad you have so badly damaged your life. I am sorry.

My wife and I have been married for 30 years; I can’t imagine looking into my partners eyes and seeing this unspeakable level of hurt and pain and knowing that I put it there. I am sure the pain must be crushing for you as well.

There are reasons why a man wont reconcile. It might be helpful to know what your husbands are. I am not suggesting you ask him, but maybe give it some thought.
In some cases a man will feel there will always be a third person in bed with the two of you, he will never know the truth of how he compares, or that he wants to be compared at all. A life time of that is simply too much.
Why you did it may be important, but it may not even be on the top of his list.

Sometimes they are not willing to live with the daily pain and reminder for the rest of their life. Every day the sun comes up and they have to compartmentalize the affair.

Here is another problem, reoccurrence.
If we would have asked you at some point beforehand, you would have insisted you would have never done something like this, so pre-meditated, so cruel, so against everything, you are, believe, have taught your children, etc. Yet here you are.

I am sure now as before you would say with equal or even greater conviction, this will never happen again!! But lets say you reconcile, and a few years from now things are good, and the desire and opportunity presents itself, what will you do? Do you believe you will never be tempted again?

Even you must look back on how heartless and cruel you were to him and wounder where that came from?

How can your husband know?

You have been humbled by the consequence of your loss. Humility brings a certain grace to our souls to be honest and sorrowful for what we have done. It is a type of integrity but it has its origin externally to us, who can know if you have truly internalized the integrity? Absent the external impetus what is your lowest common denominator? Who can say?

If I were your husband I would want to know. Maybe you have a weakness, what permanent precautions are you committed to take?
How can you show, now in real life a change in character?

There are more, but can you think of anything specific to your husband or anything he has said?

The previously asked questions; How did you come to know the Om? Are you still in contact with him? Are important to your situation, it would be helpful if you could answer them.

We don't always see the aftermath here, usually its the betrayed partners life that comes into view, especially after the divorce. I can see this is very hard for you.

I really do wish you well, take care.


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## bandit.45

Gaslighting (making someone think they are crazy or irrational for something that they have every right in the world to be concerned about) to me is an ultimate betrayal that, in my opinion, is equal to the adultery itself. 

As a husband, I task myself to protect my wife emotionally, physically and mentally. I expect my wife to do the same. When a person gaslights his/her spouse, to me that is a direct mental and emotional assault on a person. 

Remember our beloved member Ing? His WW and her OM were gaslighting the OMW for months on end and literally had the poor woman going psychotic with their lies and manipulation. Ing tried to help but the OMW wasn't listening. It was tragic. And evil.


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## michzz

bandit.45 said:


> Gaslighting (making someone think they are crazy or irrational for something that they have every right in the world to be concerned about) to me is an ultimate betrayal that, in my opinion, is equal to the adultery itself.
> 
> As a husband, I task myself to protect my wife emotionally, physically and mentally. I expect my wife to do the same. When a person gaslights his/her spouse, to me that is a direct mental and emotional assault on a person.
> 
> Remember our beloved member Ing? His WW and her OM were gaslighting the OMW for months on end and literally had the poor woman going psychotic with their lies and manipulation. Ing tried to help but the OMW wasn't listening. It was tragic. And evil.


I agree with you, about the impact of gaslighting.

My ex-wife used gaslighting techniques so much that i finally got to the point that I questioned everything that came out of her mouth. I often wondered if there was actually air in the room if I saw her breathing. Why? Because if she looked like she were breathing, then there could not be air. Everything else out of her mouth was deceitful, so why not air?


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## Truthseeker1

bandit.45 said:


> Gaslighting (making someone think they are crazy or irrational for something that they have every right in the world to be concerned about) to me is an ultimate betrayal that, in my opinion, is equal to the adultery itself.
> 
> As a husband, I task myself to protect my wife emotionally, physically and mentally. I expect my wife to do the same. When a person gaslights his/her spouse, to me that is a direct mental and emotional assault on a person.
> 
> Remember our beloved member Ing? His WW and her OM were gaslighting the OMW for months on end and literally had the poor woman going psychotic with their lies and manipulation. Ing tried to help but the OMW wasn't listening. It was tragic. And evil.


Great points - its the covering up, lying, blame shifting that further destroys whatever is left of the marriage...I think it is very rare for couples even those in R where a WS takes full responsibility and gets it - many never ever do...if you blame your spouse AT ALL for your affair you are not remorseful IMO...just lucky your spouse ate their sh!t sandwich and stayed...The OP does not seem to be doing that at all...thankfully


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## SoulStorm

I think I read your husband's side of the story. You turned the whole situation around on him. You convinced him he was crazy. You even made him go see a therapist. You even had your daughters fooled and told them you weren't doing anything and their father needed help. Once he finally had proof that you were indeed physically cheating, you made him go to three marriage counseling sessions before you gave him the passwords to your laptop and phone. He did go and after you gave him the passwords plus the burner phone, he found out how badly the OM would berate him. I think he even caught you two at a restaurant and the OM was playing footsie with you under the table while your trusting hubby sat there and was happy that you were meeting an old childhood friend. He did put you on a pedestal. He said you were his world and it all collapsed once he found out what you were really doing. He had to rebuild his relationship with his daughters because you had them believing he was accusing you and you said you were doing nothing. Now they tolerate you. It was very cruel how you did him. He would have a hard time believing that you would change after such behavior. I really hope you do change if this was you. I believe you can. I think your husband will always love you, but trust will be a whole different issue.


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## Truthseeker1

SoulStorm said:


> I think I read your husband's side of the story. You turned the whole situation around on him. You convinced him he was crazy. You even made him go see a therapist. You even had your daughters fooled and told them you weren't doing anything and their father needed help. Once he finally had proof that you were indeed physically cheating, you made him go to three marriage counseling sessions before you gave him the passwords to your laptop and phone. He did go and after you gave him the passwords plus the burner phone, he found out how badly the OM would berate him. I think he even caught you two at a restaurant and the OM was playing footsie with you under the table while your trusting hubby sat there and was happy that you were meeting an old childhood friend. He did put you on a pedestal. He said you were his world and it all collapsed once he found out what you were really doing. He had to rebuild his relationship with his daughters because you had them believing he was accusing you and you said you were doing nothing. Now they tolerate you. It was very cruel how you did him. He would have a hard time believing that you would change after such behavior. I really hope you do change if this was you. I believe you can. I think your husband will always love you, but trust will be a whole different issue.


Wow can you send me that thread?


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## straightshooter

Wishes,

Your behavior was not unique for a WW, maybe more gaslighting ( which he swallowed) than blamshifting, but the lying, deceit, are all par for the course.

The difference quite frankly is that while MOST men will make the statement that cheating is a deal breaker, in fact most men do not leave the first time it happens. At least not like your husband apparently did.

Unfortunately, it appears that whether it was the sex, gaslighting, or whatever, he has made his choice.

You know what you did was very bad, and you are reaping the consequences. You have lost your husband and you are now working full time to support yourself. And through it all, you are still hoping and it appears to me at least remorseful.

People reconcile after much worse, and people divorce with even less. That all depends on the BH involved.

Too bad a lot of WW do not give it the effort you have. You are not the worst person on the face of the earth and it is probably time to accept your situation and stop chasing something that will not happen.

You made terrible choices, you know that, but it happened and that cannot change.


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## convert

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow can you send me that thread?


Here it is. don't know for sure it is wishes's husband

long thread


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## Acoa

convert said:


> Here it is. don't know for sure it is wishes's husband
> 
> 
> 
> long thread
> 
> 
> 
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Now she is SO sorry



Very close to my story. Triggers abound. 

Good take away lesson for any wayward who may stumble across this thread... This is what lying and covering up Discovery of the affair leads to. Complete and total destruction. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## convert

Acoa said:


> Very close to my story. Triggers abound.
> 
> Good take away lesson for any wayward who may stumble across this thread... This is what lying and covering up Discovery of the affair leads to. Complete and total destruction.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yep the emails the betrayed husband read were soul crushing


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## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Gaslighting (making someone think they are crazy or irrational for something that they have every right in the world to be concerned about) to me is an ultimate betrayal that, in my opinion, is equal to the adultery itself.
> 
> As a husband, I task myself to protect my wife emotionally, physically and mentally. I expect my wife to do the same. When a person gaslights his/her spouse, to me that is a direct mental and emotional assault on a person.
> 
> *Remember our beloved member Ing? His WW and her OM were gaslighting the OMW for months on end and literally had the poor woman going psychotic with their lies and manipulation. Ing tried to help but the OMW wasn't listening. It was tragic. And evil.*


As I recall, "Boob", the OM in RDMU's narrative, spent years doing the same to his own wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Doc Who

I doubt if her BH is actually Done Gone. DG has not yet filed, but getting ready to. Apparently, Wishes is actually divorced.


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## wmn1

convert said:


> Here it is. don't know for sure it is wishes's husband
> 
> long thread
> 
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Now she is SO sorry


yep, I bumped that thread over there and he just updated it.

I wonder if this is DG's wife.

If so, the OM got his arse handed to him physically and in court.

The reason I don't think this is DG's ex wife is because Wishes said he caught them in the act, DG never caught them in the act.


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## convert

Doc Who said:


> I doubt if her BH is actually Done Gone. DG has not yet filed, but getting ready to. Apparently, Wishes is actually divorced.


no no read the update they are divorces like last week or so

I looked a post he made on February 14 he said his divorce was final in January.


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## Tron

SoulStorm said:


> I think I read your husband's side of the story. You turned the whole situation around on him. You convinced him he was crazy. You even made him go see a therapist. You even had your daughters fooled and told them you weren't doing anything and their father needed help. Once he finally had proof that you were indeed physically cheating, you made him go to three marriage counseling sessions before you gave him the passwords to your laptop and phone. He did go and after you gave him the passwords plus the burner phone, he found out how badly the OM would berate him. I think he even caught you two at a restaurant and the OM was playing footsie with you under the table while your trusting hubby sat there and was happy that you were meeting an old childhood friend. He did put you on a pedestal. He said you were his world and it all collapsed once he found out what you were really doing. He had to rebuild his relationship with his daughters because you had them believing he was accusing you and you said you were doing nothing. Now they tolerate you. It was very cruel how you did him. He would have a hard time believing that you would change after such behavior. I really hope you do change if this was you. I believe you can. I think your husband will always love you, but trust will be a whole different issue.


If this is indeed Wishes' story, I know it. Very sad. And Affaircare's comparison to a nuke is quite accurate. The gas-lighting and humiliation suffered by your H at the hands of you and your AP was especially heinous. 

And, if this is the story I am thinking of, he is now dating your AP's ex-wife. And she has lot more going for her than you, morally, financially, etc. She didn't mess around with your loser AP either, just dumped his a$$ that fast.

If she doesn't snatch him up right away your XH will find dating quite remarkable. 

OP, I honestly wish I had something hopeful or good to tell you. My advice would be to continue to focus on yourself, continue with whatever IC you need to come to terms with the what, where and how this happened. You will also need to come to terms witht eh fact that you've lost your H. You are still alive, can still be a good mom can make it your goal to be a better person in the future. Get healthy, fix your compass. 

Without that, there is no path back to your XH...or any other decent man for that matter.


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## GusPolinski

SoulStorm said:


> I think I read your husband's side of the story. You turned the whole situation around on him. You convinced him he was crazy. You even made him go see a therapist. You even had your daughters fooled and told them you weren't doing anything and their father needed help. Once he finally had proof that you were indeed physically cheating, you made him go to three marriage counseling sessions before you gave him the passwords to your laptop and phone. He did go and after you gave him the passwords plus the burner phone, he found out how badly the OM would berate him. I think he even caught you two at a restaurant and the OM was playing footsie with you under the table while your trusting hubby sat there and was happy that you were meeting an old childhood friend. He did put you on a pedestal. He said you were his world and it all collapsed once he found out what you were really doing. He had to rebuild his relationship with his daughters because you had them believing he was accusing you and you said you were doing nothing. Now they tolerate you. It was very cruel how you did him. He would have a hard time believing that you would change after such behavior. I really hope you do change if this was you. I believe you can. I think your husband will always love you, but trust will be a whole different issue.


Damn.

If even half of this is true, I don't see him ever coming back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter

Wishes,

If that thread that they said was your husbands is it, you have no chance at any reconciliation and he should be committed to an asylum if he even responded to you.

gaslighting and lying is one thing. using the kids is in a league of its own.


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## jsmart

I too, thought this was Done Gone's XWW. If so, he ain't taking her back. He was emotionally abused by his ex. Even had their daughters turned against him. He did get a chance to not only kick POS's @ss but may be dating the OBW. 

If not the same person, this guy won't take her back unless, he goes out and sows some oats himself and if she waits, then maybe she can win him back. Thinking about the regular LSers that just recently had a baby after the BH divorced and dated for 3 years while his XWW stayed by herself.


----------



## WasDecimated

bandit.45 said:


> Don't forget boredom, and maybe empty-nest syndrome. She was a SAHM for most of the marriage. Once the kids are gone or no longer dependent on mom driving them back and forth, many SAHMs end up with lots of time on their hands, lots of time to surf the web, and lots of opportunity to get themselves into trouble.


This was part of the cheating equation for my XWW.

My Story is much like Wishes except I am the one who was cheated on. I always thought we had a great marriage and she claimed we did too. I put her on the proverbial pedestal…treated her like a queen and she became selfish and entitled. There were a lot of things that were happening at the same time. She was approaching 40, the kids were getting older and much more independent (more time on her hands), working only part time, she discovered Fakebook and jumped in deep, her parents had passed away with in in months of each other…etc. 

My XWW reacted the same as you Wishes. I initially caught her texting OM. She claimed they were just friends. I told her if she continued I would divorce her. I gave her another chance. Guess what, she continued but took it underground. I was too trusting and naive. I didn’t find out for another 1 ½ years that it was still going on. After that she claimed it was only a EA. Again, I told her to stop talking to him or I would divorce her. I gave her yet another chance. Then I found out that the EA was lie and it was actually a PA the entire time. Her next step was the same as yours. She lied, gas-lighted, blame-shifted, insulted and humiliated me. She did her best to convince me that suddenly I was a piece of s**t. She said things that were so cold and cruel that I can never forget. Unlike you, she was unapologetic and had no empathy for me or our family that she was destroying. He only thoughts were about herself and her POS married boyfriend.

Needless to say, I divorced her. Her lack of empathy was one of the reasons but the fact that I gave her many chances to stop. Hell, every day from the beginning, was a new chance for her and she chose to blow them off in favor of lying and deception. 

Honestly, I would never take her back. In my mind, cheating = divorce. Lying, gas-lighting, blame-shifting, lack of empathy with no remorse = I will never speak to you again…you are dead to me.

You do have one thing going for you, at least you are now remorseful and it seems as if you want to change and figure out your whys. You need to continue to pursue this regardless of what your BH wants in the future. You both getting time on your own to sort this out but I would consider this divorce real. Nobody goes through the D process unless they are serious.


----------



## raven3321

wmn1 said:


> yep, I bumped that thread over there and he just updated it.
> 
> I wonder if this is DG's wife.
> 
> If so, the OM got his arse handed to him physically and in court.
> 
> The reason I don't think this is DG's ex wife is because Wishes said he caught them in the act, DG never caught them in the act.



This actually may be DG's wife. He wrote the divorce was finalized in January and she never said she was caught in the act. She only said she never confessed......he caught her. I'm re-analyzing this thread in light of DG's thread but the more I think about it, the more it looks like her. If it is, there probably won't be a reconciliation. The last post I saw from DG was the OMs drop dead gorgeous stbxw, invited him out on a date. Apparently they've both grown close over the past year.

Yeah. He ain't coming back.


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## Cynthia

Based on your op, I think I know what caused you to cheat.
You do not have an internal sense of self containment or integrity. You get your value from outside of yourself. You feel you cannot live without your ex. If you cannot live without him, you are not a safe person, because you base your worth on how he feels about you. You went looking for someone else, because you had a void that you were trying to fill. This is because another person will never be sufficient for giving you value. If your value doesn't come from your beliefs about yourself and your place in the world, you will never be safe or secure.
Until you feel that you are a person of value and that you are able to live without feeling lost without someone else to give you that sense of peace, you will not be a safe person for your ex. You may never get him back, but until you are okay with that and care enough about him that you let him go, he shouldn't take you back anyway. Until you resolve your internal issues, you could go off the rails again at any time.


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## MattMatt

convert said:


> Here it is. don't know for sure it is wishes's husband
> 
> long thread
> 
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Now she is SO sorry


Oh, my.... I just read his first post. It really chilled me. 

Triggered me, made me realise how fortunate I am to have my wife, as broken as she is.

Wishes, in effect, drove a stake through his heart and wonders why he just won't get up.


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## Marduk

Baloney.

I'm sorry to be insensitive, I'm just not buying it. Any of it.

Of course you know why you had the affair. You just don't want to own up to it. 

Of course you knew you were risking your marriage. You did it anyway.

And I don't buy that you're this broken up about it now, either. I mean, in your whole diatribe, nowhere do you speak to how devastating this must have been to your husband.

In short... Don't buy any of it.


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## Be smart

Welcome to TAM my Lady.

Never lose hope. Who knows maybe someday you will start dating each other and marry once again. Life is full of suprises 

You said you have kids together,so you know you are going to be in each other lives for so long. Try and work from there. Be a good mother and a good friend to your ex-husband.

I have to ask this. Are you still in contact with the OM ? Was he a good friend of your husband,co worker ... ?
Did you ever apologize to your husband,tell him the whole story and the truth ?

Are you working together for kids sake? Is there any other men in your life right now ?

How about your family,do they know ?

Most important thing - I hope you learned your lesson and you never do this again. No matter if we are talking about your ex-husband or the next one.

Sorry so much questions from me.

Stay strong my Lady.


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## eric1

If you really love him wouldn't you rather he be with someone better than you have proven yourself to be?


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## TDSC60

Just read the posts on SI of DoneGone. If he is indeed the XH of Wishes, then my advice to her is to move on with her life - there is no hope of R with XH. Her remorse at this point seems real, but after what she did to him, remorse is too little, too late. He will not allow her back in his life. In one of his last posts he admits to loving her but says being away from her hurts far less than being around her.


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## Doc Who

If you are DoneGone's xww, all I can say is how do you live with yourself and what you did to that man? Cheating is one thing, gaslighting is horrific torture, but trying to turn his daughters against him?? What kind of person does that? There is a level of evil that people should not cross and you've stepped wayyyyy over too many of them.

I hope you are in therapy because you are definitely broken.

And I am sure Done Gone is hurting, but at least it appears he has traded up.


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## person123

Wishes, I feel for you, just as I feel for your husband.

I think you should move on with your life, because I don't think he will ever come back. This is because of the following reasons. This is based on what I believe to be his thread.

1) He completely doted on you and worshipped you. It is much harder for someone who idolized his wife as being perfect to come to terms with her not being perfect. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

2) He is very strong emotionally, and has an incredibly strong moral compass. 

He is unusually strong. He subsumed all of that while he was with you, and you thought you knew him better than he knew himself, but I think that was a misperception. 

I don't think you, or anyone else, can bring him to bend. He would have bent for you for anything before the affair, but that was under 100% different circumstances. It sounds like he still loves you. But you are no longer his wife, and frankly, you stopped being his wife the moment you slept with your AP. Men like that don't bend their principles even for someone who they love when she stops being his wife.

Some people can forgive affairs. For others, there is no question os forgiveness, because the marriage dissolves the moment the partner cheats, and there is no choice to be made - the die has been cast.

3) He is dating a much more attractive person, and he's 45, well-off, and seemingly attractive. At that age, men are still very desirable. He's learning that he is in high demand.

The only possibility that might bring him around, the only thing that brought me around (but I don't think most other people see things the same way) was a book called Sperm Wars. After reading that, I came to understand the biological imperative that rears its ugly head when women are finished raising one set of children and her biological clock is running out. But for you, I think it may be too late.


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## ConanHub

Good God! Sperm wars! LOL!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

Wishes said:


> I have already lost everything.



Sometimes selfishness combined with foolishness explains everything.

Dont try to dig too deep here. 

If your husband is already connecting with another woman he is not comming back anytime soon if ever, best to just accept that.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sapientia

Guilt is overrated. Don't let those who are suffering here make you pay for sins you didn't commit.

You can't unring a bell. You screwed up, bad. You know it and it cost you. Cause and effect. Learn your lessons and treat yourself and your next partner better; communicate more.

I wish you happiness and love in future. Everyone deserves this chance, including your ex going forward. Forget him.


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## happy as a clam

Wishes... Are you coming back?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WorkingWife

Wishes said:


> He left me a year ago and I have believed this entire time he would forgive me and take me back. I thought I knew him better than he knew himself. He never gave me any hope that my affair was forgivable, however, throughout the years he had conditioned me to believe he could not live without me. I truly believed he could not live without me. I thought he would give me another chance. I figured that if I got myself into therapy, proved to him how incredibly sorry I was, did the right things, said the right words, that eventually he would give me a chance to prove how so very sorry I am for what I did. That hasn’t happened. Obviously, he can live without me after-all, however, I do not believe I can live without him.
> 
> I think sometimes that I literally cannot live another day. It never leaves my mind and there are times that the pain is so great that I just fall apart. Sometimes, out of nowhere my eyes will well up and I began sobbing. Sometimes uncontrollably and anywhere; in a restaurant, at home, at the grocery store, at work, I will suddenly just fall apart. I had a perfect, wonderful and blessed life that for some reason I felt I had to completely trash. My husband was perfect in every way imaginable. He was faithful true and kind to the fullest extent.
> ...
> The most awful, heartbreaking and terrifying thing I remember about that day was witnessing his love and care for me turn into pure hatred and distain. I hate me too. I hate every day. I am in therapy and although I have a little more insight into why I did the things I did, it certainly does not excuse my behavior. My now X-husband is a beautiful person, a wonderful man and a great father and yet, I cheated on him anyway. I do not know what I was thinking and I still do not know what is wrong with me. I have always loved him so much. I adore him and know that I do not want to live this life without him. How could I have hurt him the way I did. I do not know how to fix what I’ve broken and I do not even know what is broken within me.  One of my therapist said it was my attempt at self-medicating a traumatic childhood. If that be the case, I am here to say that it did not work, it only left me feeling angry, empty and filled with more self-loathing. My upbringing was inconsistent and horrifically verbally and physically abusive particularly from my daddy; so yes, I have serious daddy issues, but I never had issues with my husband.
> ...My now XH said he could make no promises. that the divorce is something he had to do for now and that who knows what the future might hold. He told me to live my life and that one day he might be knocking on my door; or not.
> 
> My question to you is very selfish, I know. Most or all here have experienced betrayal. After hearing my story, and considering your experiences with this forum, do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance? Hope was wonderful this last year, but since the divorce, I find it very difficult to hold on to hope.
> 
> Please, try not to bash me. I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. I am asking for something constructive to help me either, move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely. I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.


Wishes, your post is just heartbreaking.

First, regarding the part I underlined, my response to your therapist is that's a fine start, that might indeed be why you did it, but since you can never change your childhood what you need to know is how to prevent yourself from ever doing it again.

You can't undo the affair but you can learn from it and be a wonderful wife to someone else.

What I strongly urge you to do is get and read the book "Surviving and Affair" immediately. And read everything on this page (it's the website by the author of the book) Steps to Recover from an affair/infidelity in marriage

It may help you understand your actions and help you know how to prevent a repeat.

My _*suspicion *_is that your H is gone, but who knows. One thing in the "Surviving an Affair" book is a checklist of precautions every couple should have in place to make sure an affair can't happen in the first place. The fact that you don't know why you cheated would be unnerving to any prospective partner, so how can your ex trust you to take you back? Well if you put these precautions in place he may feel more secure.

Regardless of what can/will happen with your ex, your life is not over. You have learned a valuable lesson, and with the right precautions you can move forward and find someone else just as wonderful as your ex to love and share your life with, and know you will not repeat the mistake.

Please read the link I gave you and get the book. I would not wait for my ex if I was you. You waiting and pining for him is just not going to be attractive to him even though you are the one "in the wrong." 

I would try to keep the lines of communication open with him, start working on myself following the advise in the book, and know that you can have a very happy future - maybe with your ex, but if not, with someone else. You attracted and picked a good one the first time, you can do it again.


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## Dyokemm

I don't know why posters have suddenly come to believe this is Done Gone's WW.....but I would agree that IF it is, then Wishes needs to come to terms with the fact that her BH is never coming back.

The sheer level of sh*t talking and disrespect that DG's WW's POSOM expressed in the conversations he recovered and the fact that she STILL continued to have an A with a turd who constantly called her BH every vile and insulting name he could while posing as a more 'alpha' man who really knew how to screw her unlike her 'loser' BH.

It was a very happy moment when poser POS went after DG for exposing the A to his BW.....and got his a** handed to him and then arrested when the cops showed up.

Add that to the fact that his WW tried to get their grown daughters involved to pressure him to back down on getting her passwords....and blaming DG for the end of the M because he was paranoid and had anger issues.

GAME OVER.

Wishes, if this is indeed your story, then you need to find a way to move on.

I feel for you that your happy M and life have been irrevocably destroyed by the A, and I understand the heartbreak that must bring to you.

But your BH is NOT coming back.


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## happy as a clam

Agree... Why is everyone so sure this is DoneGone's wife (from SI forum)...

Wishes, ARE you DG's wife???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dyokemm

Doc Who said:


> I doubt if her BH is actually Done Gone. DG has not yet filed, but getting ready to. Apparently, Wishes is actually divorced.


No....he posted an update a few days ago that his D went final in January and he actually was starting to date POSOM's xBW.

Still not sure why so many are convinced this must be DG's WW.

I'm not convinced it is for sure.

But if it is, then Wishes needs to begin to find a way to move on in her life and build herself into a better person for her next relationship (as I posted above).

Because DG isn't going back to his former M....I would bet money on that.


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## ing

In case you haven't got it yet. This is all about sex.

Your husband ceased to interest you on a sexual level. You sent disgusting, filthy (and very sexy texts) and photos to this other man. 
You bought burner phones, made new email address and gave this man everything. You sacrificed it all for this feeling. 

You lied to have sex with this man
You lied again to have sex with him
You bought burner phones and hid to have sex with him
When the stakes were raised you had sex with him
Then you kept doing it.
. 

In your heart you know that you can never feel that way about your Ex Husband. He is your Husband. The Father of your children, Provider and the man of the house. He is and never will get you weak at the knees and changing underware in the middle of the day.

He knows this and that is why it is over for him. 

It is about sex


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## ing

bandit.45 said:


> Remember our beloved member Ing? His WW and her OM were gaslighting the OMW for months on end and literally had the poor woman going psychotic with their lies and manipulation. Ing tried to help but the OMW wasn't listening. It was tragic. And evil.


Hey.. Dude. I am not dead


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## Evinrude58

I have zero sympathy for the OP.

She trashed her marriage and will probably be unhappy from now on. Thing is, she had it all before, and still wasn't happy or she wouldn't have banged the other man so long she got herself caught.

One thing I'll bet, as a betrayed spouse myself, is he sure as hell is not coming back to OP. She needs to accept that and move on to lower pastures.

Don't know why you did it, OP?
It's probably because you wanted some strange penis and secret excitement. 
So you got it, and now you're still unhappy. I'll bet your husband is happier! You already know he can find contentment. Hopefully he'll find it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

ing said:


> Hey.. Dude. I am not dead


You're not Ing. Ing is living in a cave on a mountain in China somewhere, conversing with the spirits.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

Wishes said:


> I have already lost everything.


I dont think she loved her husband then, and I dont think she loves him still.

She lost her life and her male slave, thats why she is so sorry.

She has feelings for him, he is more like a beloved family pet to her, but a family pet would not have gotten in the way of her selfish lust. His bad luck.


Anyone remember the wayward wife sometime back who complained after getting dumped by her Husband and AP who said, "Now I don't have anyone to love me." Thats what we have here. No real remorse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

bandit.45 said:


> You're not Ing. Ing is living in a cave on a mountain in China somewhere, conversing with the spirits.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Off in the distance we hear the sound of voices in unison resounding a continuous deep, overlapping, prolonged, "Ooooooooohmmm". :grin2:


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## wizernow

From a Christian perspective, this book may help you figure out why you ended up doing what you did.

http://www.amazon.com/Every-Womans-Battle-Discovering-Fulfillment/dp/0307457982


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## bandit.45

Boy, it only took us a little over seven page to scare her off. We're getting better at this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

bandit.45 said:


> Boy, it only took us a little over seven page to scare her off. We're getting better at this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it was the reference to the other site.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ivory

*Reasons why*

I'm a believer in therapy too. It's helpful to find ones own soul and with that comes the possibility of becoming closer to other souls. And if there is a good to come from tragedy, it is that it brings the opportunity to find some depth of of own selves. So your parents were a mess and you get to inherit some chaotic behavior... join the club.

My wayward, her excuses... yeah okay. What she never did say was that she did it because it was fun, there was lust, she was horny. Duh. I suppose that's a self evident truth. So she says he was nothing like me, oh the sex wasn't all that. Sure... that's why she kept doing it. Even in denial I knew she had a woopty good time behind my back and from the way she put me off it was much more exciting than our affection. 

So after she is like "why did I do it". Because it was fun and exciting! Sure her daddy was a little wacko but still she obviously and thoroughly enjoyed herself at my expense. No, her sex with her guy was more important than me. I was no competition, until I was gone. Don't deny that it would have been physically impossible to have intercourse if you weren't turned on. Bottom line is that is a big reason why it hurts. For me, it revealed how vulnerable I was to jealously... knowing that she had enjoyed her other more than she enjoyed me. And that's the way it is with the forbidden and somehow I knew that long before I read it here.

So you wish. I wish too. So you say you are giving up hope. My call is for you to go ahead with your life and allow your sparkle to return. Not give up hope and move on, but keep the hope; being that is what you want. What you are saying is that you are losing that thought of him reconciling with you, but you shouldn't lose that vision... don't lose your dream if you want it to come to be because your vision of that future makes it more likely that it can come to be. 

We tried to make it work after but it was a total rug sweep and the wheels quickly came off. We are still friends though and I care. Your's wouldn't be a rug-sweep. You are totally willing; there is certainly a possibility that it can come to be. 

Take care of yourself wishes and keep the door open. In the mean time... go ahead and let yourself back in. :wink2:


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## 2ntnuf

It's a shame.

No one knows for sure, who she is or if she has anything to do with that other thread.

If she is that woman, she still needs help to get through all the stuff she is dealing with and help to become a better woman.

At issue for me, and you know how I feel about cheaters, is that she may go out and do it again to another unsuspecting, loving man, whether she is that woman or not. I mean, at least be honest with a partner and tell them you don't want to be exclusive. That takes courage and acceptance. It takes knowledge of who you are. Above all, it shows empathy. Isn't that what many waywards lack? 

Also, I don't know of one marriage where one spouse is completely at fault. There are always issues on both sides. It's perception, coaching, toxic friends, lack of choice, ignorance of what choices they really have and how those will impact the rest of their life, personal integrity and character which cause some to choose infidelity as a coping mechanism. Well, that's my belief. 

She never really got a chance to get into it before many were asking questions that would help them understand their personal experience. I understand, but I've had enough time and counseling to know that for many, there is no way of knowing what was going on. It's all guessing and we can only know them by their actions, which proved they did not want their spouse. 

And believe me, I have plenty of reasons to be cynical and bitter.


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## RWB

Wishes said:


> *Is my character defined by the 46 years I lived before my affair, the 9 mos of my affair *or the year that has passed since the affair? I am not necessarily making a statement, *I am asking a question?*


W,

After 30+ years of marriage, I caught my wife cheating. It had been going on for years, 3 OM, all PA.

My wife asked this exact question... _"I was a faithful wife for 25 years, doesn't that count for something?"_

I remember looking at her and saying... _"Actually, NO. Your affairs will define who you are for the rest of your life."_

Life altering?


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## bfree

wizernow said:


> From a Christian perspective, this book may help you figure out why you ended up doing what you did.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Every-Womans-Battle-Discovering-Fulfillment/dp/0307457982


Actually from a Christian perspective this book would have given her a solid guide on what not to do.


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## Wishes

happy as a clam said:


> Wishes... Are you coming back?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi Happy. I don't know. I am just reading all this and am in shock.


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## MattMatt

RWB said:


> W,
> 
> After 30+ years of marriage, I caught my wife cheating. It had been going on for years, 3 OM, all PA.
> 
> My wife asked this exact question... _"I was a faithful wife for 25 years, doesn't that count for something?"_
> 
> I remember looking at her and saying... _"Actually, NO. Your affairs will define who you are for the rest of your life."_
> 
> Life altering?


Would that defence work for all cases all the time? For example: "For the first 42 years of my life I never even hit anyone. So I then became a serial killer and murdered 4 people.

"Does the fact that I killed 4 people define who or what I am? Don't the first 42 years count in my favour?"

No. Because such a person would always be a cheater. Sorry! I mean serial killer.

Actually I think you will see what I did there. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

Wish's if your the women in the other thread on another site by GoneDone/DoneGone all you can do is wait to see what happens

The wife in that thread manipulated him at every turn .......and using her children which damaged them is beyond my understanding


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## farsidejunky

Wishes said:


> Hi Happy. I don't know. I am just reading all this and am in shock.


Is that your husband? Is that you?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 2asdf2

Wishes said:


> Hi Happy. I don't know. I am just reading all this and am in shock.


Don't be too scared. It is just CWI's way of welcoming a WS. It gets better after that.

When people get to know you, and are satisfied that you are repentant and remorseful, TAM -and CWI specifically- is enormously supportive, by and large.

Divorce is not the end. It is, however, a statement of disapproval that BS often need to make to regain their self respect.

Would you be willing to maintain a relationship with your husband that is platonic, rather than romantic?


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## NoMoreTears4me

Ok I will give my 2 cents and they will probably not be popular.

I have no sympathy for adulterers.

First to commit adultery you must perfect lying and deception. At some point you did that or at least to some level. Therefore there can never be any trust ever again between you too. 

All cheaters are selfish people. And even though you appear remorseful, you are still selfish in wanting him back knowing that things can never be the same. He has moved on. Leave him alone. You will never understand the pain you caused. 

If he takes you back he will never love you like he did before. And that is the price you pay for the betrayal. Neither him nor you can ever fix that.

A part of him will always care for you but he will never love you or look at you the same again. Respect is important and I personally could never respect a cheating spouse again. Trust me I know.


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## Clay2013

If your Husband is DoneGone I have followed his thread for while now. I am not a person that believes in reconciliation but I do believe people can change and become better people. I hope you continue to work on yourself and try to be the best mother you can for your children. I do agree with the others I would let him go. Some things you just can't fix or come back from. 

I hope you will just focus on your treatment and helping him co parent your children. I doubt seriously you will ever be able to fix things between you and him but that does not mean you can't show him the respect he deserves and let him go. 

Thank you for coming and posting. You will see there are some other great WS's that have gone through similar situations and have learned to be safer partners. 

SI is a good place for WS's too. You might want to consider that as well. There is nothing wrong with getting all the support you can in your path to healing. 

Good luck.

C


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## EllisRedding

RWB said:


> W,
> 
> After 30+ years of marriage, I caught my wife cheating. It had been going on for years, 3 OM, all PA.
> 
> *My wife asked this exact question... "I was a faithful wife for 25 years, doesn't that count for something?"*
> 
> I remember looking at her and saying... _"Actually, NO. Your affairs will define who you are for the rest of your life."_
> 
> Life altering?


Wow, I am seriously floored that she could have asked the bolded


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## Acoa

EllisRedding said:


> Wow, I am seriously floored that she could have asked the bolded


Then you don't understand cheaters. You are supposed to focus on the good and ignore all the bad stuff they do. If you didn't catch them it wouldn't have ever been a problem. 

:scratchhead:


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## michzz

My ex-wife commented tearfully in the marriage counselor's office: "I was a good wife and didn't cheat for 16 years, doesn't that count for something?"

Um, no it doesn't and as I found out much later, that 16 year figure? Pure applesauce!

She cheated during that period of time too. 

She was trying to sell a package back then, that she had a one-time lapse in judgment. 

In reality? A long-term affair was still ongoing and there were earlier ones.

Points for convincing tears!


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## Devastated an lost

Xenote said:


> I hope you stay around TAM, for several reasons, first to help others grasp the other side of the coin, you can provide a perspective to BS who are trying to understand what is going on in their spouses head.... providing a refer of reference that they themselves can not see. additionally you might find it cathartic, in dealing with your own issues and hopes. an opportunity to further express the various paths that brought you here, much in the same way that brings us all here, and help in taking us to our next version of ourselves.


Yes, I would like to hear when you figure out, Why you cheated when you had a good marriage. My H said he was happy I was the perfect wife, There wasn't one thing I could change to make me a better W. That makes it so much harder to understand & get past. Reading through your post have helped me to see how it could happen. Keep posting & know that you're helping someone to understand the other side better...


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## TheTruthHurts

Wishes - I know you're out there.

Please just post this "I enjoyed the sex. I enjoyed the thrill of the lust and desire the OM had for me. It made me feel lusty. I didn't have that feeling with my H"

If you can type that - or an equally honest and VULNERABLE confession, you can start to heal.

I honestly think you can't start until then.

Kind of like what I imagine a 12 step program works like.

If you want R to work you HAVE to admit what we all assume.

Please take the risk.


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## TheGoodGuy

Wishes, have you taken a look at the SI thread linked a few pages back? Is that your exH?


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## jorgegene

WISHES:

can't blame you if you don't come back.

it can be brutal here as well as cathartic. but as i learned a long time ago, getting at the truth is never easy, but it's worth it.
i'm not saying everything everyone's saying here is the truth. what i'm saying is that the truth is somewhere in the mix of all this.

i learned the hard way back 3 years ago. people here zeroed in on the problem pretty precisely.
and with God's grace i came out the much better for it.


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## Jimhardc

As a bs I can say it will be very difficult for your XH to ever look at you the same. The woman he fell in love with and thought that everything was perfect with that he had sunk 25+ yrs of his life into just told him he means nothing to her without ever saying a word. Can you tell us have you completely cut the OM completely out? Do you still know his number him you? If so you have not cut him out. Your EH will not only want to make sure you Have NO CONTACT WITH THE OM he also should not have to say it if you haven't changed your number that is a must it don't matter how long you have had it. If you work with the OM you need to seriously consider new employment (not always realistic) but you have 25 yrs invested in your EH if your job takes priority then just start working on moving on now save yourself the trouble of reconciliation it won't work. If by the smallest chance in hell your EH wants to talk to begin healing plan on telling him EVERYTHING without holding anything back it will hurt but it will also help him understand that you Want a new start WITHOUT ANYTHING HIDING. last thing you need is something you left out coming back to haunt you. Honesty is your only hope now. Also remember zero contact not a text phone call email nothing because as far as your eh is concerned that is as good as an ongoing affair. I hope you can reconcile not many can but good luck and honesty and transparency is the only chance you have.


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## TDSC60

TheGoodGuy said:


> Wishes, have you taken a look at the SI thread linked a few pages back? Is that your exH?


The similarities seem to be a little more than coincidental. The length of marriage, OM being an old school friend, the terrible gaslighting the husband was subjected to, involving the children in placing the blame on him, and the fact that she never confessed. In DoneGones thread on SI, he says that he was provided proof of the extent of the affair, that it had gone physical, and about the depth of deception (secret email accounts, burner phones, how his wife and OM were laughing at him and deriding him behind his back) by OMs wife when she found OMs burner phone and secret emails. This is what finally made up his mind to divorce and not look back.

Edit: The one incident that was over the top for me was when he found them together at lunch. He said he was happy his wife was connecting with old friends. He sat with them for awhile then left telling them to "Have Fun". In subsequent emails his wife and OM made fun of play footsie under the table in front of him and his comment to "have fun" was his permission to keep fvcking behind his back. Sick. He read all of this in emails and texts given to him by OMs wife.


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## jigga114

Should we really be directing Wishes to her possible XH's thread? I don't think so. It's probably too late for that, but I feel she should not read his thread, just as he should not read her thread. They both deserve their space to vent and say their truth without worrying about people in their real lives reading their thoughts. Just my 2 cents.


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## Graywolf2

Wishes said:


> Why did I write all this? Because I want my husband back and I will wait for him. What else can I do. I have done a lot of reading in this forum and others and it seems that in most cases, eventually the BS will give the marriage or relationship another chance.
> 
> My now XH said he could make no promises. that the divorce is something he had to do for now and that who knows what the future might hold. He told me to live my life and that one day he might be knocking on my door; or not.


As other have said I think your chances are low. To have any chance at all you need to make it very clear that you will take him back in a heartbeat. Don’t date other people even he does. You rejected him down to his core. Now he needs a chance to reject you. 

Your kids will be a good bridge to him. Make no excuses with them, speak well of their father and let it be known that you have no desire to date. Don’t overdo it but dress nicely around him and your kids. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and time may help. 

I remember a case (I think on this forum) where a happily married woman had an affair with a neighbor. She explained that it was like going to your favorite restaurant and always ordering your favorite dish (her husband). Then you find out that the restaurant is closing (she was around 40) and you never had ordered any of their other dishes that looked great (other men). 

She got caught, she quit her job and her husband paid for an apartment for her. Her kids, especially her young daughter, hated her. This went on for two years. She just remained sorry with no excuses and her husband came around. He was a good family guy and I think he wanted familiar sex. She started looking good to him again and was a sure thing.


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## G.J.

Ken something his name was..he got banned I think


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## michzz

Graywolf2 said:


> She got caught, she quit her job and her husband paid for an apartment for her. Her kids, especially her young daughter, hated her. This went on for two years. She just remained sorry with no excuses and her husband came around. * He was a good family guy and I think he wanted familiar sex. She started looking good and was a sure thing.*


That last line depresses me. He settled when he could have found better.


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## GusPolinski

Sounds like KingwoodKev. He was banned once it came to light that he was using a second account ("CincyBluesFan", IIRC) to post in the LTSiM forum.

He was recently found to be using yet another account, and that one was banned as well.

As I recall, each of his personas had a different story. Based on that alone, I wouldn't be too quick to believe anything that he posted via any of them (especially KK).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

Wishes said:


> Hi Happy. I don't know. I am just reading all this and am in shock.


Multiply that shock by 10 to the 100 power, and you'll get an idea how he felt when your BH found out about your affair.

"My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally. I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him."

I'm curious how you can say this. Loving a man "with ALL your heart" and cheating on him is not possible. At least a little of your heart was at the very least in love with you, and the other man.

You came here asking if there was a way to get him back. Well, he's had a year to get over the shock of what happened. He's still not back.

You can do nothing about the past. We (as in all of us, including myself) deserve severe penalties for our sins. But, I'll bet your husband and everyone that loves you is willing to forgive you. That doesn't equate to taking you back. That is more than he may be capable of, even if he wanted to.

You DO have another chance at love and happiness, if you're willing and COMMITTED to be honest and loyal to someone who is the same with you.
I'm just saying, I seriously think there's a 99.9% chance that it's not going to be with your ex husband. 

Your behavior was just awful, and it lasted for a long time, and would have continued indefinitely had you not been caught. This is why he can't take you back. He loved you. Don't you think he wanted to take you back?????? You should move on.


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## wmn1

I know Wishes is in shock by the response here. Of course someone was able to piece this story and link it to DG. Some very intelligent people here.

I do think Wishes initial post was very thoughtful.

I agree with those who say DG won't come back. Too much damage there. However, I am curious as to what her update is and how it progresses as opposed to what DG posted the other day.

I am glad he's healing. Her road will be a long one too, as is his. I was very active in that thread over there. Horrible story


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## Marduk

wmn1 said:


> I know Wishes is in shock by the response here. Of course someone was able to piece this story and link it to DG. Some very intelligent people here.
> 
> I do think Wishes initial post was very thoughtful.
> 
> I agree with those who say DG won't come back. Too much damage there. However, I am curious as to what her update is and how it progresses as opposed to what DG posted the other day.
> 
> I am glad he's healing. Her road will be a long one too, as is his. I was very active in that thread over there. Horrible story


Why do you think it's thoughtful?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

marduk said:


> Why do you think it's thoughtful?


It certainly is "_after_thoughtful".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ivory

*these are messages for the BS*

She isn't looking for guidance here. The singular goal is obvious.

I read these threads started by the very remorseful WW and think... these desperate words are meant for her BS who she knows uses this forum for support.

Desperate justifications... desperate declarations of determined commitment to one that is lost if he would only return. 

"Baby I've changed. Please come back". 
-Don Henley


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## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> It certainly is "_after_thoughtful".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I struggle with connecting "thoughtful" or even "after thoughtful" with "I don't know why I cheated on my amazing spouse."

And "help me get him back because he's moved on."

If she loved him, she would want him to be happy, yes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

Almost got a tear with some of that. That's no joke. 



Evinrude58 said:


> Multiply that shock by 10 to the 100 power, and you'll get an idea how he felt when your BH found out about your affair.
> 
> "My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally. I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him."
> 
> I'm curious how you can say this. Loving a man "with ALL your heart" and cheating on him is not possible. At least a little of your heart was at the very least in love with you, and the other man.
> 
> You came here asking if there was a way to get him back. Well, he's had a year to get over the shock of what happened. He's still not back.
> 
> You can do nothing about the past. * We (as in all of us, including myself) deserve severe penalties for our sins. * * But, I'll bet your husband and everyone that loves you is willing to forgive you. That doesn't equate to taking you back. That is more than he may be capable of, even if he wanted to.
> *
> You DO have another chance at love and happiness, if you're willing and COMMITTED to be honest and loyal to someone who is the same with you.
> I'm just saying, I seriously think there's a 99.9% chance that it's not going to be with your ex husband.
> 
> Your behavior was just awful, and it lasted for a long time, and would have continued indefinitely had you not been caught. This is why he can't take you back. *He loved you. Don't you think he wanted to take you back??????* You should move on.


Damn...

I'm saying, do the work for yourself, Wishes. Don't do it to get him to notice you. The first time you do, he'll run for the hills. Just learn what you did wrong, why, and how to avoid it ever again. Then, you will be living as a woman he would be proud to call his wife. But then, so would other men. So, it's a win-win for you, in my book. 

ps: I did read some of that thread at SI. I don't want to read further.


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## ConanHub

I really can't comprehend why you think you love your husband?

Do you think your actions have shown anything but hatred and contempt for him?

How can you say you love him while so viciously betraying him on so many levels?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1

marduk said:


> Why do you think it's thoughtful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Look, few were harder on her than I was over in that thread. I crushed this woman every single post for a long time. And I DO NOT take what I said back. I think DoneGone made the right decision and in fact I accused him of taking too long to make it.

My 'thoughtful' comment was not to appease Wishes. It does take balls to come on to CWI and admitting to everything she did when she could have probably gone to Loveshack where she would have been pronounced a hero in some circles. 

That's pretty much what I was saying. Maybe the term 'thoughtful' wasn't the best one to use. Though I will say this After reading the other side of this story and finding out the impact it now has on both sides, I am interested to see how things turn out. very interested.

Sure, I would like to see 'Wishes' recover and make something out of this mess she created, now that it is certain she will not gain from her adulterous actions. if she was going to gain from them, then obviously I would feel like DG didn't do enough. I want to see DG bounce back and have a great life from here on out. She already lost everything she pretty much has. Wishing her more bad luck on top of the consequences she has already faced would be pointless. He's not coming back to her anyway so in a way, I am wishing her some luck in finding a recoverable route.


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## alte Dame

I certainly think that it will take balls for her to stay here. Posting the OP is a good first step, but actually hanging in here is where the rubber meets the road, in my opinion. SI is a much gentler place to land and will enable her much more, I think. Here she will get some tough love - some of it reasonable, some not so reasonable. If she indeed is DoneGone's ex, she truly needs some very tough love if her goal is to become a better person.


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## 2asdf2

*Re: these are messages for the BS*



ivory said:


> She isn't looking for guidance here. The singular goal is obvious.
> 
> I read these threads started by the very remorseful WW and think... these desperate words are meant for her BS who she knows uses this forum for support.
> 
> Desperate justifications... desperate declarations of determined commitment to one that is lost if he would only return.
> 
> "Baby I've changed. Please come back".
> -Don Henley


You may well be right. It is usually an odds-on bet.

However -there is always a however- here in CWI there is ample evidence that sometimes, rarely but sometimes, WS do change and want to atone. They often want to atone by somehow making up with their BS. That may be an unrealistic expectation, but a natural one. Usually BS and WS alike have a terrible time distancing from each other.

Wishes has not posted enough for me to even guess what her level of remorse is. If it is as high as I hope it is, I wish her well in her effort.


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## Iver

Wishes,

I'm sorry you are in this situation. The affair was a critical error in judgment on your part and you are now paying a very high price for it.

The only real advice I can give you is to take care of your self - mentally and physically. Guilt and grief can do real damage. See your doctor or a psychiatrist for medical treatment to address some of what you are experiencing. Exercise will help as well. 

I don't know if you are the WW referenced by DoneGone in another forum but that was tough to read. Affairs with strangers are bad enough but having the connection really hits that much harder. DoneGone showed some text messages where the OM went on a tear against your husband. Frankly he (the OM) sounded like an obnoxious jerk. (yes, I'm well aware that jerks are attractive to women)

Was this part of the "schtick" he engaged in - putting your husband down? Your husband read the emails/texts between you two so I'm curious if that was a recurring theme for you. That obviously does not bode well for a reconciliation down the road.

Also if you are the WW in question I have to ask...what in the world were you thinking by involving your daughters in all this? They should never been exposed to any of this.

Lastly, you got caught. If that had not happened would you still be in the affair? Where did you see it going?


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## MattMatt

Wishes stick with it. You will find it helpful, eventually. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wmn1

MattMatt said:


> Wishes stick with it. You will find it helpful, eventually.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I agree Matt. Hopefully she does.


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## GusPolinski

marduk said:


> I struggle with connecting "thoughtful" or even "after thoughtful" with "I don't know why I cheated on my amazing spouse."
> 
> And "help me get him back because he's moved on."
> 
> If she loved him, she would want him to be happy, yes?


OK, so maybe "hindsightful".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

You are gutsy for posting here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> You are gutsy for posting here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Gutsy? Wouldn't "stupid" be a better word?


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## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> "Gutsy? Wouldn't "stupid" be a better word?


Nope. I respect someone who posts here and owns their shyt.

Take time and stick it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eric1

Wishes said:


> "Gutsy? Wouldn't "stupid" be a better word?


That's a pretty good one.

You're going to get raked over the coals to be sure, but I recommend reading LosingHim's thread. She's probably the best former wayward that I've read in the years of reading infidelity websites. 

She accepts her faults, and folks here don't let her do otherwise. There are other sites out there which will look to rug sweep what you've done, but you're lucky you've stumbled upon here. It's just like going to the gym for the first time in a long time, you're GOING to come home feeling like crap. But the next day it gets easier, and the day after that even better. 

I mean this in a very sincere way, but you need to first accept that you did not do a bad thing, but that you are a bad person. We all have the capability of doing bad things in us. You truly need to figure out what it was that made you do what you did. You need to do this before you even consider starting a relationship with someone else, much less the guy whose life that you decimated.

Would you rather get treated with kid gloves, or would you really want to get helped? I don't consider you coming back stupid at all. I was ready to come into this thread and dump on you some more, but you had the guts to post again. Good for you.


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## Decorum

Iver said:


> I don't know if you are the WW referenced by DoneGone in another forum but... DoneGone showed some text messages were the OM went on a tear against your husband. Frankly he (the OM) sounded like an obnoxious jerk. (yes, I'm well aware that jerks are attractive to women)
> 
> Was this part of the "schtick" he engaged in - putting your husband down? Your husband read the emails/texts between you two so I'm curious if that was a recurring theme for you.
> 
> Also if you are the WW in question I have to ask...what in the world were you thinking by involving your daughters in all this? They should never been exposed to any of this.


Taking pleasure in degrading and humiliating her husband.

Willingly harming her daughters to further harm her husband.

Exposing the most intimate details of her husband to another man as fodder for his ridicule, and that to another man who is owning his wife sexually.

Women are not wired to harm those they care for.

Whatever wires DG's wife (whomever she is) was running on, it had nothing to do with genuine love.

Subsequent maudlin sentimental ruminations prove nothing but a heightened level of self-delusion or a real world lack of empathy.

Sometimes fantasy is better than reality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

Well,
I haven't read the other forum's post yet. Never been there. But it's obvious by her lack of a negative response that she's the WW in question. 

Certainly a person can choose to do right. I personally think that behavior like this says a lot about a person's true character. But we all have lousy character in one form or another. What we do about feeding the good parts of us and starving the bad parts is what counts the most.

I hope the OP has chosen to starve the bad and feed the good. If so, I encourage her to continue this. I also encourage her to take some healing time, and move on with her life as far as relationships. The one she is "wishing" for was killed by her own hand. I don't think anything less than the healing hand of God can renew this marriage.

I will say that just typing up a post about how sorry she is, and then never discussing it again alludes to a possible ulterior motive for the post to begin with.


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## MattMatt

Evinrude58 said:


> Well,
> I haven't read the other forum's post yet. Never been there. But it's obvious by her lack of a negative response that she's the WW in question.
> 
> Certainly a person can choose to do right. I personally think that behavior like this says a lot about a person's true character. But we all have lousy character in one form or another. What we do about feeding the good parts of us and starving the bad parts is what counts the most.
> 
> I hope the OP has chosen to starve the bad and feed the good. If so, I encourage her to continue this. I also encourage her to take some healing time, and move on with her life as far as relationships. The one she is "wishing" for was killed by her own hand. I don't think anything less than the healing hand of God can renew this marriage.
> 
> I will say that just typing up a post about how sorry she is, and then never discussing it again alludes to a possible ulterior motive for the post to begin with.


Maybe she has said all she can think of for the moment?

I am sure Wishes will answer questions when she feels able.


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## Marduk

Wishes said:


> "Gutsy? Wouldn't "stupid" be a better word?


Look. What do you want?

You're not likely going to get him back. You screwed him over royally, and if you want him to be happy because you love him, you'll stay far away from him. 

So you wanting him back is not loving him. It's loving yourself.

Which is basically all you said in your diatribe. That you are sorry for yourself and are hurting and want him back. 

Step one for reconciling is realizing that you made a mistake. 

That implies that you know you made a mistake, and why you made it. 

I don't see any evidence that you know either. I just see evidence that your comfy world went away and you want it back. 

So start there. Why did you have an affair?

And why do you think you deserve a second chance?

Those are real questions that deserve real answers, not that you want someone to fix your mistake for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart

I never read other forums,TAM is the best option for me and you can really find the best answers,support,gentle and hard comments or anything like that. What is even better is that TAM members are so open about their opinions and I respect that. I learned a lot just reading some of the threads. 

I really wish this Lady learned her lesson and she will never do this again. Maybe she can try and be a better mother,better role for her kids. 

I still cant belive about this thread on other Forum. Please say it was another "troll post". 

Noone deserves this kind of hurt,pain and betrayel. My ex-fiance hurt me a lot,but I would never wish her this things you did My Lady. 

Stay strong and work on yourself to become a better person. Your kids are going to need you and their father,your ex-husband is going to be in your life for so long.


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## MattMatt

Sometimes, well, perhaps often, people who struggle to cope with infidelity are the infidels themselves...


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## donny64

What a damn tragedy. Especially if Wishes is in fact DoneGone's WW. I read the entire forty-some pages over there. Guy seems like everything she said he was. Stand up guy, devoted to family, adored her, would have walked through fire for her. Good provider, and they had a great relationship by both their accounts. Not a doormat type nice guy (seems he didn't have anything to even be upset about with her until he discovered the cheating), but a good guy, and was completely blindsided. Thrown away for sex with and compliments from a loser who sat on his azz without a job for 12 years playing x-box while his wife supported him, and who now spends time splitting living between his mother's garage, and in his car. Walking down the street with his x-box begging friends to let him use their Wi-Fi. In the OM and OMW case, that relationship appeared pretty screwed up due to OM being a worthless POS, and the OMW likely got exactly the motivation she needed to escape that loser, but Wishes and her H had something good going. Above average to be sure. And thrown away over what? A dopamine rush.

Thanks for posting Wishes. I often visit these forums to keep myself centered on relationship issues. Recently an "opportunity" presented itself to me when a very attractive female I'd not personally known, but knew of for years, and who was on the fringes of my main circle of friends planted a semi-drunken kiss on me one night. And I stopped it. Took a second to even register what was happening, myself being not quite sober, but by that time, it was done. Brushed it off and wrote it off. Months later, she made very clear to me that if I wanted to, she was very interested, and willing. I was fighting the first stages of the "fog". I knew I couldn't and wouldn't, but man, the thoughts were there, buried in the back of my brain somewhere. Not too hard to see how the fog can come about, and snapping out of it is not easy. Never thought I'd ever be in that position, as I never pursue anyone, and make it quite clear I'm "not that guy". But when presented with an aggressor, and taken by surprise, my guard was down momentarily. But snap out of it I did. Your story, and DoneGone's story are a very serious exclamation point on why I snapped out of it. I could not bear the thought of bringing that kind of pain into the life of the most wonderful woman I've been blessed to be with. She is irreplaceable. One in a million. And I'm thankful every day I was able to snap myself out of my little mini-fog before anything happened that I'd have regretted for the rest of my days.


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## SoulStorm

Be smart said:


> I never read other forums,TAM is the best option for me and you can really find the best answers,support,gentle and hard comments or anything like that. What is even better is that TAM members are so open about their opinions and I respect that. I learned a lot just reading some of the threads.
> 
> I really wish this Lady learned her lesson and she will never do this again. Maybe she can try and be a better mother,better role for her kids.
> *
> I still cant belive about this thread on other Forum. Please say it was another "troll *post".
> 
> Noone deserves this kind of hurt,pain and betrayel. My ex-fiance hurt me a lot,but I would never wish her this things you did My Lady.
> 
> Stay strong and work on yourself to become a better person. Your kids are going to need you and their father,your ex-husband is going to be in your life for so long.


Unfortunately it's true


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## alte Dame

As the pages multiply, it looks like she might be the WW that people suspect. If so, I think she should do her ex a favor and stop posting. She can get help in many, many ways. Right now, DG has been pointed to 'another forum' and told that she is in sorry shape. Since he is a very decent man, he has shown some concern about this. He has moved on in a healthy way, it appears, and him reading this could set him back.

If Wishes truly loves him and not just herself, I think she should let him have his peace on these forums. There are other places for her to go.

(Just my opinion, although I realize that it most likely won't be popular.)


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## gpa

Well i also visited dg's thread. After 46 pages in one of his last messages revealed that his ww lost her parents and diagnosed with cancer right before the affair. That alone for me explains a lot for her selections and choices she made.


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## Tron

Wishes said:


> "Gutsy? Wouldn't "stupid" be a better word?


No, not stupid. There is a hint of desperation in the tone of your posts though...desperate times call for desperate measures. Sounds cliche, I know. You posted for a reason. What you've been doing isn't working. 

Are you interested in becoming something better than what you were? What you are now isn't good enough. 

Simply wishing for your XH to come back to you and reboot the relationship to before the affair is not going to happen. What you did cannot be undone.

There have been a few success stories here, some couples that tried again, got back together but didn't make it and a lot of divorces. 

Your XH believes that you are a weak person, that you can't handle the scrutiny. 

In order to become a woman worthy of your ex, you will need to scrutinize everything. 

Do you want to keep reading or do you just want to crawl into a shell and wallow in self-pity? 

It's up to you really.


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## Iver

gpa said:


> Well i also visited dg's thread. After 46 pages in one of his last messages revealed that his ww lost her parents and diagnosed with cancer right before the affair. That alone for me explains a lot for her selections and choices she made.


I believe she ran into the POS at her mothers funeral. Think how different her life would be if it wasn't for this off chance meeting.

It's not an excuse but it does explain a lot. At a real low point in her life and then have the bad fortune to meet a PUA. 

Again...not an excuse.


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## ing

ConanHub said:


> Nope. I respect someone who posts here and owns their shyt.
> 
> Take time and stick it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not sure why there is a connection to the SI thread. I have just read it and what strikes me is that they take so long to get to the damned point. 

Wishes. 
This site is not about being nice. It is about reality. If your husband had posted here he would have been hit with the TAM 2x4 just as hard and you would have been divorced quicker. 

I know you think you are being remorseful and truthful but you really aren't. You are pretending to be and because of that you are getting your a.ss kicked.

The reason you had an affair?

You wanted to.

The reason you lied, manipulated and continued to have the affair?

You wanted to.

It really is that simple. Anything else is just disrespectful to your Ex Husband and your children.

Own it. You made choices because it felt good. You enjoyed it at the time. 

25 years is a long time, you grew up together, you went through a lot together. You had a future planned set out when you were young. Perhaps a few dreams got broken along the way. That's life.

You gave him no choice except to Divorce you and start again if he was to regain any self respect. 
Stop with the hand wringing. Go through every action and be honest. Tell yourself the truth. 

Without that there is no end to the pain.


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## TheTruthHurts

Loss triggers a lot of people to have affairs. Life and death, you know. A cancer diagnosis can f up your perspective immediately. I've got the C and it has impacted my perfect relationship too.

It explains a lot actually. Anyone who has not been there should not judge - in the way that someone who hasn't been betrayed shouldn't judge the "wimpy" and "pathetic" responses BS exhibit on TAM as they process their loss, grief, etc.

I haven't read the other thread and am not inclined to. In on with the understanding it is really, really bad. Like sucks sometimes as it does now for OP and her EXH and kids.

Moving forward - that's something I am currently struggling with...


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## Evinrude58

I've read the other thread and the email exchange. OP just wanted some strange.
Sadly, by her own admonition, she miscalculated her dumbo ex husband. Not only did he love her deeply, he loved her purity and his dignity as well. It appears the guy is quite a man--- and a man of strength in dealing with this.
OP is quite a woman, as well. It seems she just had a weakness.
She chose....................poorly.

After reading this story, I feel unable to continue with this thread. It's too heartbreaking. I have my own troubles, and this type of thing is too hard to read. I've been thinking very hard on all the time I spend on TAM and hoping I can put this forum behind me. 

One thing I've gleaned from this thread and others. There does seem to be something going on if this thread is real. The BS seems to find someone that is a major trade-UP after they get over the ex WW. I know I have. Good luck to all, including the OP. Even though I'm a betrayed spouse, I do see that she just had a weakness. Everyone has them, it's a sad thing for her that her one weakness cost her such a loving husband.


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## jsmart

That thread confirmed how many times WWs affair down. There was nothing there where it came to the POS. She was buying the hype. The guy was all fluff, but she ate it up. There text exchange showed that she was so sexually charged for this loser. She mistook her husband's loving trust as weakness. Talk about being such a poor judge of character. Can see a young girl falling for the bad boy hype but a late 40s mother in a 24 year marriage?

Despite all this, I think if OP stays by herself while allowing him to have a relationship to get it out of his system, I think he loves her enough to possibly take her back. If she goes back on the market, she'll never get him back. A man of this quality is worth the wait.


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## Affaircare

Wishes said:


> "Gutsy? Wouldn't "stupid" be a better word?


Hi @Wishes, 

Nope, it's not stupid. Stupid would be being so prideful that you never admit to yourself or anyone else that what you did was wrong. Stupid would be backing up something you know is wrong because you won't admit it was wrong. Stupid is knowing something is wrong and continuing to do it...and worse. 

Gutsy is posting on a forum of loyal spouses who have been horribly hurt by their disloyal spouses and admitting out loud that you're struggling. Gutsy is knowing that it's fairly likely you aren't going to get the answer you "like" or "want" and posting anyway. Gutsy is taking the hits a bit so that you can get to the good stuff. That takes COURAGE! 

Plus I think often loyal spouses are so hurt by what has happened to them and struggling with what is happening in their own lives so that they can forget that disloyals struggle and wrestle and strive with ourselves too. You know how people are--we all tend to think of our own lives and project that onto the person who's talking. So you're getting a big, whopping helping of projecting what happened on SI onto you, and big, whopping helping of projecting their spiteful disloyals onto you, and a big, whopping helping of projecting guesses here and there based on the few words you've shared. Shoot, I've seen these guys argue with each other for PAGES over stuff that was never even said by the original poster! LOL  I usually try to stay out of that myself. 

So here's one nugget though that I want you to think about. It's been a year, I think you said, and you (quote here) "still don't know why you did it." To a loyal person's ears, what that sounds like is that for no apparent reason the affair just started and for no apparent reason it just ended...and thus it could happen again at any time because you have no idea what was a catalyst inside you, where you went off course, what you can do to change that, etc. See, the goal is to examine yourself enough to be able to demonstrate to your (currently ex) spouse "Here's what I have done to ensure that this will NEVER, EVER happen again." If you can't even tell "why" it happened, then you sure as shooting can give any reasonable assurance that X, Y, and Z have been changed to protect them!!

Make sense? 

And here's the very tricky part: when you examine yourself be sure you do not cross over into blame. You want to identify the circumstances surrounding the start of the affair, and where you have a weakness that lead to adultery. 

I'll give you my own personal example: my dear hubby and I are in our 50's now but at the time of my affair it was more like late 40's and I hadn't yet hit menopause. We both LOVE children and had hopes that I might hit the jackpot and become pregnant, and we were not doing infertility treatments or anything but we were doing all we could naturally do to encourage it. Anyway, I did become pregnant and lost the baby--this sent me into grief--and the way I deal with grief is to share it, hug, and cry with someone. The way my dear hubby deals with grief is to withdraw, think, ponder and contemplate until he has reached a conclusion. I didn't know that, and so just when I needed him, to me it felt like he withdrew. Then I tried to get his attention but he was in a pretty deep grief so he didn't notice. (Again, all this makes sense NOW, but at the time I didn't know it). 

Here's where I went off track. I needed to connect with someone, so I started to play a game that had some interaction like a forum. I started with the intent of "I enjoy this game--I think I'll play it" but it became, "Others are noticing I'm good at this game" and I felt like a winner because I had skillz. It started with including dear hubby and telling him what I was doing and how I won, etc. but since he wasn't interested I began to not include him...and then it became EXCLUDING dear hubby! See, there it is. My Achilles' Heel-- #1 I didn't understand our differences in dealing with things, #2 I didn't know I have a need to feel connected pretty much all the time, and #3 I began to EXCLUDE the person who has 100% access to all of me (thoughts, feelings, everything). 

Now, can you see how it is ... well "comforting" if you will...comforting to my dear hubby to see that I've examined myself enough to know that I have those three weaknesses that could be a ***** in the armor, and that because I know I have those weaknesses, I've done X, Y, and Z about it? A) I'm not afraid to be honest with myself!! (I think you are beginning to be at this point but haven't taken the time to really look deep because it hurts too much.) and B) I know what went wrong and I've taken steps to avoid that in the future! 

Anyways--hope this gives you a place to start.


----------



## drifter777

jsmart said:


> T
> *Despite all this, I think if OP stays by herself while allowing him to have a relationship to get it out of his system, I think he loves her enough to possibly take her back. *If she goes back on the market, she'll never get him back. A man of this quality is worth the wait.


I disagree regarding their chance to reconcile down the road. He's been gone a year and has disengaged enough to start dating. He's "made it" - he'll never go back now.


----------



## alte Dame

TheTruthHurts said:


> Loss triggers a lot of people to have affairs. Life and death, you know. A cancer diagnosis can f up your perspective immediately. I've got the C and it has impacted my perfect relationship too.
> 
> It explains a lot actually. Anyone who has not been there should not judge -


What about the people who have been there and understand what it does to you to face your mortality with a cancer diagnosis and the death of parents? I've been there - to both places. Both when I was far younger than most.

Yet, I judge. I know how lost you can feel, like your reality has been rewritten. I also know that these experiences can profoundly change your outlook, personality, expectations. Within a decade of my early adult life, I lost my mother, had cancer treatment, and had two dangerously premature babies. To say that I was a different person at age 32 than I was at 22 is mostly correct.

No matter what, though, I don't believe I would have hurt someone who loved me in the careless way that Wishes did. It is wrong. It is unloving and disrespectful & how would I like it if someone did that to me?, etc., etc. There are so many reasons that I never would have done it. I would have had to have a character-transplant to do something like that.

Wishes was loved, cherished and spoiled by her XH. She was so secure in her position with him that she could devalue him the way she did. She didn't think he'd find out, but assumed she could talk him around if he did. After all, he adored her, didn't he? But, as we know, he has surprised her, although I'm not sure why. He is a man of character, and she has always known that, I think. It's just that some people get so comfortable in the pleasant place that others provide for them that they mistake love and caring for entitlement.

Honestly, if I had cheated on my H when I was facing my own mortality hell, I would not at all consider it an excuse. I'm not even sure it would be an explanation.


----------



## Billdan

Let me suggest that getting your husband back is not something you can control.

What you can do is become a better person - to work to understand why you did what you better. This is what you should do whether your husband takes you back or not.

In my own case I was greatly betrayed. Part of the reason I reconciled was because my wife fought very nobly to better herself. Overtime I found myself admiring what she was doing. To be clear I am not talking about love notes - I am talking about facing things about herself she did not like - and doing the work to change. 

Here is the irony - the best chance you have to win your husband is to work on yourself. When that happens people sense it. They know it isn't born out of calculation but stems from something deep inside.

There is another post that people in this thread are asking about. This is irrelevant. What is relevant is what you want to do, what you hope to accomplish, and how you are going to accomplish it.


----------



## straightshooter

Wishes,

I hope at some point the "pounding" of you stops. The initial question was if or what you could do to get your husband back. Based on what has been stated over and over, I think the general consensus is that that is not going to happen. 

That being said, you still have a life to lead. You have to find out what caused you to do these things as best as you can, and try to become a safe partner for someone.

Anything can happen, but you need to move on. And you are pretty remorseful at this point ( too late) in posting here and taking the lumps.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

alte Dame said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Loss triggers a lot of people to have affairs. Life and death, you know. A cancer diagnosis can f up your perspective immediately. I've got the C and it has impacted my perfect relationship too.
> 
> It explains a lot actually. Anyone who has not been there should not judge -
> 
> 
> 
> What about the people who have been there and understand what it does to you to face your mortality with a cancer diagnosis and the death of parents? I've been there - to both places. Both when I was far younger than most.
> 
> Yet, I judge. I know how lost you can feel, like your reality has been rewritten. I also know that these experiences can profoundly change your outlook, personality, expectations. Within a decade of my early adult life, I lost my mother, had cancer treatment, and had two dangerously premature babies. To say that I was a different person at age 32 than I was at 22 is mostly correct.
> 
> No matter what, though, I don't believe I would have hurt someone who loved me in the careless way that Wishes did. It is wrong. It is unloving and disrespectful & how would I like it if someone did that to me?, etc., etc. There are so many reasons that I never would have done it. I would have had to have a character-transplant to do something like that.
> 
> Wishes was loved, cherished and spoiled by her XH. She was so secure in her position with him that she could devalue him the way she did. She didn't think he'd find out, but assumed she could talk him around if he did. After all, he adored her, didn't he? But, as we know, he has surprised her, although I'm not sure why. He is a man of character, and she has always known that, I think. It's just that some people get so comfortable in the pleasant place that others provide for them that they mistake love and caring for entitlement.
> 
> Honestly, if I had cheated on my H when I was facing my own mortality hell, I would not at all consider it an excuse. I'm not even sure it would be an explanation.
Click to expand...

Judge away ad.

I never said these things are an excuse.

My point is these things can impact your judgement and destroy your world view. When that happens, you can question what you even know as facts.

You probably understand this.

I began to rewrite my own marriage. W did nothing wrong but my grief confused me. I KNEW what I was thinking was wrong - wasn't true! But I still thought it.

I saw a sex therapist because I thought I was going crazy. I'm an otherwise rational, completely grounded guy.

And the sex - that's an outlet like a drug by itself.

If someone from a safe place and a safe time approached me when I was crazy... I would like to think I would have made a different choice. But I'm honest enough to admit that I no longer know for sure.


----------



## TX-SC

I do not post here very often. I am very familiar with the story of DoneGone over at SI. I have followed it closely from the very beginning. That was one of the saddest stories I have read over at SI, here, or anywhere else for that matter. When I think of how I would feel if I read messages like THAT from my wife to another man... I honestly don't think I would have handled it nearly as well as he did. 

Wishes, I realize that you do love your husband. I don't honestly know what happened in your line of thought to push you to do what you did, but what's done is done. As a married man, I would NEVER let another person, male or female, speak that way about my wife. EVER. If I did have an affair (I won't), I still would never be able to disparage my wonderful wife. Why did you allow this sort of conversation to blossom? In your one conversation you even told OM that you didn't want to lose your husband so he needed to be more careful (after the footsie incident under the table). Surely at that time you would have come to your senses about what you were going to lose? Or was the thought of his "joystick" just too much to ignore?

I don't know if you will ever post here again. I hope you do. There are a lot of angry people here, as in most infidelity forums, because most of us have been hurt at one time or another. I lost a fiancee' to infidelity. Luckily, I later found someone else and have now been married 20 years. I honestly don't think there is much hope that you and your ex will ever get back together. He seems to be fairly happy with the OM's ex-wife now and they seem to be hitting it off. I hope that she realizes what she is getting and can be a great partner to him. I also hope that you can find someone new and make a new life for yourself. Just make sure that you learn from your mistakes here. Never take anyone for granted. You love your husband and he was a good partner. You threw that away for what? A 7-inch "joystick" (assuming he wasn't exaggerating)?

At one point you told the OM, "This better be worth it!" Well, was it? 

Oh, and I'm kind of sad to see the SI post linked here. I think SI was a place for DoneGone to post without worrying over his wife reading it. I guess that's no longer the case.


----------



## 2asdf2

ing said:


> -----------snip for brevity-------------------------
> 
> I know you think you are being remorseful and truthful but you really aren't. You are pretending to be and because of that you are getting your a.ss kicked.
> 
> -----------snip for brevity-------------------------


I don't think one can tell that she is not remorseful. I see no evidence that she is pretending anything.

I see someone who -regardless of her own actions- is hurting.

She is also asking for help.

I agree that self-examination is her next step, whatever the future holds for her.


----------



## bandit.45

The whole thing is very sad. I hate to see any marriage go kablooie because one partner decides to get selfish and stupid. 

Wishes, coming here to TAM was not stupid. Having your affair was stupid. 

You don't need to spend the rest of your life making stupid decisions. Get into therapy and learn to know how to tell the difference.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> The whole thing is very sad. I hate to see any marriage go kablooie because one partner decides to get selfish and stupid.
> 
> Wishes, coming here to TAM was not stupid. Having your affair was stupid.
> 
> You don't need to spend the rest of your life making stupid decisions. Get into therapy and learn to know how to tell the difference.


Amen! :iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## alte Dame

TheTruthHurts said:


> Judge away ad.
> 
> I never said these things are an excuse.
> 
> My point is these things can impact your judgement and destroy your world view. When that happens, you can question what you even know as facts.
> 
> You probably understand this.


We all judge, imo. This is what society does to protect itself. And, sure, these things have life-changing impacts that can inform your reflection on your actions after the fact, but they must be viewed societally from the perspective of the whole. As a society we can look at the contributing factors and acknowledge and learn, but we can't collectively give a pass to the dysfunctional behavior as a result. If you are grieving and not in your right mind and hold up a bank, you will still be arrested and tried. Society has to judge the action in terms of the commonweal.


----------



## ConanHub

TheTruthHurts said:


> Judge away ad.
> 
> I never said these things are an excuse.
> 
> My point is these things can impact your judgement and destroy your world view. When that happens, you can question what you even know as facts.
> 
> You probably understand this.
> 
> I began to rewrite my own marriage. W did nothing wrong but my grief confused me. I KNEW what I was thinking was wrong - wasn't true! But I still thought it.
> 
> I saw a sex therapist because I thought I was going crazy. I'm an otherwise rational, completely grounded guy.
> 
> And the sex - that's an outlet like a drug by itself.
> 
> If someone from a safe place and a safe time approached me when I was crazy... I would like to think I would have made a different choice. But I'm honest enough to admit that I no longer know for sure.


Those things just strip you down and reveal what you're made of.

All of us have some ugly but not all of us start fvcking on the wrong side of the sheets and trying to murder the soul of someone we "say" we love.

I've been through possibly more death than life and managed to keep my damn pants on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## becareful

TX-SC said:


> You threw that away for what? A 9-inch "joystick" (assuming he wasn't exaggerating)?


The OM claimed it was a 7-incher, but when DoneGone mentioned that to the OM's wife, she laughed and said she wasn't sure what that meant unless her husband was referring to his X-BOX joystick. lol


----------



## TX-SC

becareful said:


> The OM claimed it was a 7-incher, but when DoneGone mentioned that to the OM's wife, she laughed and said she wasn't sure what that meant unless her husband was referring to his X-BOX joystick. lol


Oh, correct, I gave him too much credit on that one. I have modified my earlier post.


----------



## Broken at 20

So, maybe we should hang off on speculating who OP is/related to. It can cause posters to become jaded if they think it is one of their own, so to speak. And it doesn't really help OP out. Just saying...


Wishes, 
First thing is, treat your issues. Because all this is for nothing if you don't treat or at least figure out what led you to stray in 10 years if your ex does forgive you and reconcile. And you might argue with me and say that you could never do this again, but I would argue that 25 years ago, did you think your marriage would end with you cheating? 

Secondly, going only off what you said, I think you broke your husband. Not his heart, but him as a person. Though without really hearing/knowing anything from him, it's tough to know. 

From your post, your husband loved you dearly. He was a family man, who had beaten the 50% divorce statistic, and had kids, and a wife, and life was perfect for him. 
Until this blew up in his face. 
And you also said you thought he would always forgive you, given the fact his life revolved around you. He likely picked up on this at some point during the fallout from the affair. So he either feels like Plan B, or worse, something you abused and never expected to actually leave. 


As what the end result is when someone finally breaks, results vary.
Again, you haven't brought up your husband, so who knows where he'll go or what mental state he is in. But from what I've seen (both me, life-relationships, and from here):
Some say they'll never trust women again, and refuse to get in any serious relationship with them. 
Others grow incredibly cynical and jaded, and swear off the other sex entirely. 
Other BS eject the WS ASAP, and try to quickly fill the void left by the exWS. 
And I've just become extremely apathetic.


----------



## Decorum

Hurting, no matter how badly, does not necessarily equate to remorse.

Regret, guilt, shame not the same either.

These others motivate and crowed us to make it right if we are willing, but remorse empowers.

Its a matter of (willingly) accepting responsibility and doing the right things, for the right reasons.

Self-interest is ok, but the object of remorse is recovery and resitution for the injured party.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kobold

Wishes said:


> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him.
> 
> We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally.
> 
> I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him. I do not know what possessed me!!!!! What was I thinking?????
> 
> He forgave me for some inappropriate texting but once he learned the affair went physical, he walked away and never looked back.
> 
> Our divorce was final last month and I am dying. I can’t eat, I can’t sleep, I can’t stop weeping and the stress and sadness is sometimes overwhelming.
> 
> I’ve lost a husband who literally worshipped the ground I walked on and I also lost the respect of my children as well as many of my friends.
> 
> He left me a year ago and I have believed this entire time he would forgive me and take me back.
> 
> I thought I knew him better than he knew himself. He never gave me any hope that my affair was forgivable, however, throughout the years he had conditioned me to believe he could not live without me. I truly believed he could not live without me. I thought he would give me another chance.
> 
> I figured that if I got myself into therapy, proved to him how incredibly sorry I was, did the right things, said the right words, that eventually he would give me a chance to prove how so very sorry I am for what I did. That hasn’t happened. Obviously, he can live without me after-all, however, I do not believe I can live without him.


I quoted the parts of your post that I think are most vital in explaining why this happened and why your chances of reconciliation while not non-existent aren't great. 


*RELEVANT FACTS SO FAR: *

(I'm not including anything about the post people are alleging to be your EX here since you haven't actually confirmed if this is your husband or not.)



You had a husband that for all intents and purposes did everything right, treated you like a queen, put you up on a pedestal etc. 

You were sure that he could never leave you no matter what you did to him. i.e. You felt entitled to his love and commitment regardless of your behavior. 

You had an affair with another man. 

On discovery of your immoral behavior(texting the OM) you tried to convince your husband that he was crazy, jealous and controlling in an attempt to throw him off course so he wouldn't realize the full extent of your betrayal. 

Your husband has divorced you.

Now looking at all of this I must concur with the masses here and admit that your chances don't look particularly good measured next to the usual cases of a BH taking a WW back(which is rare enough in less brutal affairs) The best thing that you can do IMO is to get yourself a good therapist, not one who coddles you and tells you how this is all your EXH's/mom's/dad's/Easter bunny's fault as many are apt to do in your shoes. 

You need somebody to hold your feet to the fire, personally I would advise you to study the bible and find a good Christian counselor with a strong focus on owning one's sins, but I know a lot of people don't wanna hear that, so at the very least you should find somebody who will give you some much needed truths that aren't designed to let you off the hook or make you feel like you had no better options. Anything less than that is just gonna keep you stuck in the same selfish and entitled attitude that's left you with a broken family. 

You should be focused on trying to become a healthy and safe person again for the sake of your kids, they may not want to have a whole lot to do with you now if they're still angry, but most kids come around eventually especially with their mom. I'd advised you to stick around here, you might not like what you're hearing right now, but think of it like medicine. Medicine doesn't taste good going down but it's good for you. That should be the attitude a truly remorseful person takes if they're trying to become a better person, not hiding from uncomfortable truths. 

And who knows, if you make enough genuine changes and the kids and family members notice then it will eventually get back to the EX and just maybe he might give you another chance at this, stranger things have happened.


----------



## jim123

Wishes

I hope you hang in. Think about Gladiator. Win the crowd, win your freedom. If you can win the crowd here, you can learn how to win your husband back.

It can be done and has been done.

You need first to find your empathy and that starts here.


----------



## sapientia

This is utterly tragic. The consequences of an affair, splayed out in all its gore like a flayed and quartered corpse.

@Wishes - You cannot undo your choices. But you do now have a new choice: to continue down this horrible path of self-destruction or to endure and improve.

NOONE here is immune from poor choices. They may not involve an affair, but no question there are other mistakes made. Noone here can forgive you; nor do they have this power over you. Only you can forgive yourself, learn from your mistake and move on.

For those quoting the bible it is ALSO Christian to forgive (something many TAM members forget).

I wish you peace and happiness in your life. You have clearly suffered and hopefully learned. This is also something that is only yours to decide -- not anyone here on TAM. 

My advice: Be kinder to yourself in future, be stronger in your choices, and don't allow others to make you stray from self-respect.


----------



## sapientia

jim123 said:


> Win the crowd, win your freedom. If you can win the crowd here, you can learn how to win your husband back.


How disgusting. She isn't required to "win the crowd" here. TAM approval has nothing to do with improving herself on her journey. What a judgmental comment this is. A large proportion of the mob isn't interested in her improvement, they just want to flog her for sins she didn't commit - a substitute for whomever did them hurt.

I do agree with the Bread and Circus metaphor.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

sapientia said:


> jim123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Win the crowd, win your freedom. If you can win the crowd here, you can learn how to win your husband back.
> 
> 
> 
> How disgusting. She isn't required to "win the crowd" here. What a judgmental comment this is.
Click to expand...

Your lens is interesting. I agree - if a WW can win over a group of hurt BS, then she has demonstrated true remorse and understanding and has a chance at winning back the hurt heart of her EXH


----------



## sapientia

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your lens is interesting. I agree - if a WW can win over a group of hurt BS, then she has demonstrated true remorse and understanding and has a chance at winning back the hurt heart of her EXH


Why did you leave out this sentence?

"TAM approval has nothing to do with improving herself on her journey."


----------



## sapientia

TheTruthHurts said:


> if a WW can win over a group of hurt BS, then she has demonstrated true remorse and understanding and has a chance at winning back the hurt heart of her EXH


This^ simply doesn't follow. She is unlikely to win back her ex regardless of what she does or doesn't do on TAM.

She doesn't owe anyone here a demonstration of "true remorse and understanding". Her journey is her own.


----------



## adriana

sapientia said:


> How disgusting. She isn't required to "win the crowd" here. TAM approval has nothing to do with improving herself on her journey. What a judgmental comment this is. *A large proportion of the mob isn't interested in her improvement, they just want to flog her for sins she didn't commit - a substitute for whomever did them hurt.*



Absolutely.... I agree 100%.


----------



## Truthseeker1

I think @Wishes is not coming back and all our arguing from this point out is just about us and not her. Infidelity has such tragic consequences - it drenches ones life in tears - these posts are all so sad - so much human destruction for nothing. In the end infidelity can destroy both WS and BS.


----------



## sapientia

Oh, I'm quite sure she is reading the posts.


----------



## Truthseeker1

sapientia said:


> Oh, I'm quite sure she is reading the posts.


If she is not engaging us then the arguing is about us and not her - without a give and take this serves no purpose but to anger everyone involved.


----------



## sapientia

Sometimes posters need a chance to think about things before they come back. Some never do. All true.

Anyone who gets angry over the interwebs needs more than TAM can provide. LOL. Anyway, good evening Seeker.

- Sapi


----------



## Broken at 20

sapientia said:


> For those quoting the bible it is ALSO Christian to forgive (something many TAM members forget).


Well, let's see what the Bible says:

Leviticus 20:10: If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death

So...according to the Bible, I would say Wishes got off pretty easy. 


Might I offer some advice? Don't use religious text that are super long, and super old, to make a point. Because someone will always be able to poke a hole in it, and make you look bad (and that would also apply to WS who might try using this as a argument for forgiveness)

And just so you know I'm not picking on you, according to Deuteronomy 23:2, I am not allowed in the Lord's House, nor are my next ten generations of kids. 

Though I doubt she is coming back. Connecting her to another thread, whether it actually was her or not, was a poor move. 
Although, this forum is also not known for exactly welcoming WS in the first place...


----------



## TheTruthHurts

sapientia said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> if a WW can win over a group of hurt BS, then she has demonstrated true remorse and understanding and has a chance at winning back the hurt heart of her EXH
> 
> 
> 
> This^ simply doesn't follow. She is unlikely to win back her ex regardless of what she does or doesn't do on TAM.
> 
> She doesn't owe anyone here a demonstration of "true remorse and understanding". Her journey is her own.
Click to expand...

I disagree and think you're wrong. 

You want her to owe someone something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you're adding something in your own head that I didn't say, which is likely.


----------



## sapientia

TheTruthHurts said:


> I disagree and think you're wrong.
> 
> You want her to owe someone something but I have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you're adding something in your own head that I didn't say, which is likely.


You seem to have an input problem. I don't think she owes anyone here anything. My post was clear she certainly does NOT; at least one other seems to agree. Sorry you don't understand.

Oh and you forgot to explain your selective quote:



> Why did you leave out this sentence?
> 
> "TAM approval has nothing to do with improving herself on her journey."


----------



## sapientia

Broken at 20 said:


> Well, let's see what the Bible says:
> 
> Leviticus 20:10: If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death
> 
> So...according to the Bible, I would say Wishes got off pretty easy.
> 
> 
> Might I offer some advice? Don't use religious text that are super long, and super old, to make a point. Because someone will always be able to poke a hole in it, and make you look bad (and that would also apply to WS who might try using this as a argument for forgiveness)
> 
> And just so you know I'm not picking on you, according to Deuteronomy 23:2, I am not allowed in the Lord's House, nor are my next ten generations of kids.
> 
> Though I doubt she is coming back. Connecting her to another thread, whether it actually was her or not, was a poor move.
> Although, this forum is also not known for exactly welcoming WS in the first place...


I wasn't the one who first mentioned the bible. You might want to get caught up on the thread before making that attribution to me.

I agree, TAM is not welcoming to WS. Rabid, is the word that comes to mind.


----------



## ing

2asdf2 said:


> I don't think one can tell that she is not remorseful. I see no evidence that she is pretending anything.
> 
> I see someone who -regardless of her own actions- is hurting.
> 
> She is also asking for help.
> 
> I agree that self-examination is her next step, whatever the future holds for her.


There is huge minimization of the affair. A total omission of how much she enjoyed it and went to great lengths to hide it.
It is a special remorse that is designed to appease the man she thought she knew. 

Yes she is hurting and that will continue until she faces the truth. Not for her Ex not for children but for her.

That. I believe is helpful.


----------



## SoulCrushed16

Truthseeker1 said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not the cheating that made him realise that there could be no reconciliation.
> 
> It was the fact that you deliberately tore him down, smashed his psyche and convinced him that he was mentally ill.
> 
> In fact your games DID make your husband mentally ill to some extent.
> 
> You relied on your husband's love for you to enable him to forgive you.
> 
> And you know something? Had you not tore him down and broke his manhood and his sense of self, he may well have forgiven you.
> 
> You have apologised for cheating on him
> 
> Have you apologised for tearing him down? If not, do so.
> 
> You never know that just might help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> Very true MattMatt,
> She tore this man down after he gave her TWO chances to right her mistakes. I think that she went into this affair knowing EXACTLY what she was doing and using her husband as her Plan B, thinking well " he worships then ground that I walk on so why wouldn't her forgive me?". This is the attitude of a narcissist and things never end well for individuals like these. Apologizing might not be enough in this case. I think allowing this man who was destroyed during this whole ordeal the time to heal is what he needs. It doesn't matter what the OP needs. It sounds like he's already moved on anyway. OP needs to go to IC and figure out why this took place so she can avoid doing it to someone else later on.
Click to expand...


----------



## SoulCrushed16

funengineer said:


> I'm just curios
> 
> who is the other guy and where did you meet him? was he younger or older? was he better looking than your husband? and your first physical where was it and was it planned? the rest of your physicals where did they take place?


These are good questions. What exactly did OM have that your husband didn't? It sounds like your husband is a great person and you lacked for nothing. So what really happened?? Were you bored? Was your husband "too nice"??


----------



## jigga114

The mob and pitchfork mentality does nothing for those who bare their soul to strangers on the internet. People must remember that when people post their stories here, they are in a bad place, and they are hurting. Piling on only adds to that hurt, and IMHO, that is not the purpose of this community. It exist's to help people get to a better place. Sometimes people need tough love to open their eyes to their reality, but when someone acknowledges they f*cked up royally, hammering on said f*ck up only adds to the pain that brought them here. Yes, Wishes did a terrible thing, but that does not necessarily make her a terrible person. How she reacts to her f*ck up says more about who she is as a person than the f*ck up itself. 
@Wishes... keep your chin up. Yes you messed up, and you may not get exactly what you desire. The past can't be changed, and the future is not promised. We only have control of the right here and now, and you have a choice to make. You can wallow in self pity, or you can grab the reins and take control of your situation. Use this time to figure out exactly what happened (why you made the choices you made), and to work on making a better version of yourself. Do it for yourself... not for your ex or anyone else. Real change comes from within. 

As to whether your ex will come knocking at some point in the future, no one can say definitively. All you can do is make sure that if he ever does, you have done the work to make yourself worth the giant risk he will be taking. R is not a right. It is a gift, and if you ever get the chance, you must treat it as such. However, do not hang your hat on the chance your ex will give you another chance if you do xyz. Do those things for your own benefit, and for the benefit of your children. Good luck OP, and remember, you are not defined by the worst things you do. That story is yet to be written, and the good news is you have the pen and blank paper. Make of it what you will.


----------



## SoulCrushed16

convert said:


> Truthseeker1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow can you send me that thread?
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is. don't know for sure it is wishes's husband
> 
> long thread
> 
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Now she is SO sorry
Click to expand...

Wow. Just read this as well. That is a broken man. As a woman, I would NEVER let someone like him go.


----------



## ConanHub

How many kids do you have? 

Ages?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Did I read Done Gone's thread right? He's dating the OM's ex wife now? Well....gee-willikers.....how is that for a Hollywood ending? 

Hmmmmmm.....here we go again. I'm thinking both TAM and SI got hit by a bridge-dweller. I'm not buying these stories.


----------



## Acoa

bandit.45 said:


> Did I read Done Gone's thread right? He's dating the OM's ex wife now? Well....gee-willikers.....how is that for a Hollywood ending?
> 
> Hmmmmmm.....here we go again. I'm thinking both TAM and SI got hit by a bridge-dweller. I'm not buying these stories.



I'm not convinced, but certainly possible. Even if this isn't factual it has generated an interesting discussion. 

The other possibility is that this is real and she didn't get the outpouring of sympathy she wanted to support her mindfrack. So she shutdown and stopped posting.

She wants her XH to pity her. Love bombing him would be next. She has played this song so many times, she doesn't understand why it's not working. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

Anyone know about the kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RWB

bandit.45 said:


> Hmmmmmm.....here we go again. I'm thinking both TAM and SI got hit by a* bridge-dweller.* I'm not buying these stories.


Bridge-Dweller... :grin2:

What's really scary is the stuff a BS knows for fact is generally just a fraction of the sordid sh!t a WW actually did and said in the affair. 

Bits and pieces left in the Trash/Sent Folder, un-deleted text messages, and all those downplayed admissions when caught red-handed.


----------



## Wishes

Evinrude58 said:


> I've read the other thread and the email exchange. OP just wanted some strange.
> Sadly, by her own admonition, she miscalculated her dumbo ex husband. Not only did he love her deeply, he loved her purity and his dignity as well. It appears the guy is quite a man--- and a man of strength in dealing with this.
> OP is quite a woman, as well. It seems she just had a weakness.
> She chose....................poorly.
> 
> After reading this story, I feel unable to continue with this thread. It's too heartbreaking. I have my own troubles, and this type of thing is too hard to read. I've been thinking very hard on all the time I spend on TAM and hoping I can put this forum behind me.
> 
> One thing I've gleaned from this thread and others. There does seem to be something going on if this thread is real. The BS seems to find someone that is a major trade-UP after they get over the ex WW. I know I have. Good luck to all, including the OP. Even though I'm a betrayed spouse, I do see that she just had a weakness. Everyone has them, it's a sad thing for her that her one weakness cost her such a loving husband.


If I've hurt you, I am sorry and please forgive me. Evinrude58, please do not leave because of the likes of me. I spent a good deal of time yesterday reading the profiles of people who were posting to me. If was through ignorance that I ended up in a forum of mostly BS. It was not my intention and I am truly sorry that you have experienced pain as a result of my colossal mistakes. I promise you, I did not come here to do this and your post just breaks my heart. I am sorry that my bad behavior has hurt yet another person. Please forgive.


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## sparrow555

The last post from Wishes broke my heart.

There is a person here for help and in a very vulnerable mental state. She is not evading any responsibility like the usual WS in fog do. I think people can be a little more considerate.


The mods need to step in here.
@EleGirl, @Amplexor, please have a look this thread.


----------



## Truthseeker1

bandit.45 said:


> Did I read Done Gone's thread right? He's dating the OM's ex wife now? Well....gee-willikers.....how is that for a Hollywood ending?
> 
> Hmmmmmm.....here we go again. I'm thinking both TAM and SI got hit by a bridge-dweller. I'm not buying these stories.


That would be two in a row..I may need to take a forum break for awhile.


----------



## WasDecimated

gpa said:


> Well i also visited dg's thread. After 46 pages in one of his last messages revealed that his ww lost her parents and diagnosed with cancer right before the affair. That alone for me explains a lot for her selections and choices she made.


I agree 100%. The death of a parent, child, close friend, loss of a job, being passed up for promotion, or a brush with serious illness are all triggers that are commonly present in a mid-life crisis/infidelity. If this is DG's XWW then she got a double whammy by loosing both parents within a short amount of time. My XWW lost both parents, 6 months apart. She turned into someone I didn't know and within 8 months, she was cheating with a old high school friend.


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## convert

can anyone who quoted me that had the link to SI in it delete or edit it please.

mattmat, I think you quoted me could you please edit the quot


----------



## TheGoodGuy

Decimated said:


> I agree 100%. The death of a parent, child, close friend, loss of a job, being passed up for promotion, or a brush with serious illness are all triggers that are commonly present in a mid-life crisis/infidelity. If this is DG's XWW then she got a double whammy by loosing both parents within a short amount of time. My XWW lost both parents, 6 months apart. She turned into someone I didn't know and within 8 months, she was cheating with a old high school friend.


Same with my ex. She lost both her parents within about a couple of years of each other, and then a couple of years after that she was going through a crisis of self at work and crying on her boss' shoulder and "fell in love" and abandoned her family.

I'm not saying that going through a traumatic experience isn't supremely difficult and life changing. However I still don't agree that it's a good excuse to cheat on your spouse/SO and further nuke everyone's world so that they go down the tubes with you (not you Decimated, the collective you).
@Wishes, if these stories are real, and you are here to gain some insight and (eventually) healing, then I hope you stick around for a while. Keep reading others' stories and learning and maybe you can also help future WS.


----------



## G.J.

Wishes said:


> I never intended for the affair to get physical.
> I had myself convinced that it was just some harmless fun.
> I was not looking for love or sex, my husband gave me an abundancy of both, however,
> I had become addicted to the attention
> I used sex to make sure I continued to get it. Sick, I know it.
> 
> I am not expecting anyone to understand this because, after all this time,
> 
> I do not understand it myself.
> 
> It is something I just did.
> 
> My now X-husband is a beautiful person, a wonderful man and a great father and yet, I cheated on him anyway.
> 
> I do not know what I was thinking and I still do not know what is wrong with me.
> 
> I have always loved him so much.
> I adore him
> I do not want to live this life without him. .


I normaly keep away from this type of thread as it just brings out emotions I don't want to feel but after a year and your no further 
forward in facing what you really are is mortifying

You say your husband gave you everything a women could want and you still decided to lower your self to 
the gutter and give in to basic instincts based all around you

You knew your husband would be devastated
you knew your kids would be destroyed
you knew what you were doing

You are an intelligent women and decided to use that in what you did

Nothings broken in you, look deep enough and you will find your a selfish person who did what you did because you wanted to
and had a perfect husband who believed body and soul in you

*Tell me I'm wrong and how up to that point when you decided to lower your self you were a giving person who put people first 
who you wouldn't say was in the least bit selfish ?....*

Maybe you do have empathy for others when it suits you but to compartmentalize that behaviour is cold and its built in you perhaps ?.....

If you are the person who used her children in the S.I. thread *which I don't think you have denied* explain to me how a caring mother 
could use her children to re engage her husband...?

I personally after reading think you do not face up to the person you are...not broken ....just selfish

The arm chair psychologists can mull over the funeral etc but that sort of event brings out emotions that are in built in us....not create new ones
It NORMALLY brings us closer to our loved ones

Really hope your husband and children if your the person in the other thread heal with out too many scars

Keep posting as it will help you face your demons


----------



## zozon

DoneGone said:

I am starting here because it is easy. I had emails between XW and OM saved. It took a while to find but here is her reference to having a threesome. I apologize if it is too vulgar and if against site rules would ask moderators to remove. Anyway, here is transcript of emails. 
They exchanged many emails but this is the one that hurts the most. I am not really sure why other than the fact that she insinuates that OM out manned me at restaurant which she used as deciding factor to take the adultery physical. 

I happened upon my now XW and OM in a restaurant on the other side of town. She explained, at the time, that she had "ran" into an old family friend and they were just catching up. I sat at the table and talked with them a few minutes and left. 

This is the email exchange between them concerning that incident. 

WW ....huge deal. My husband is my life and you were screwing with my life today. You may think it is daring and bold but it was childish and reckless. Worst of all, you were very disrespectful to my husband (BS). If you disrespect my husband you disrespect me. It is one thing to do what we are doing but it is something else entirely to practically rub it in his face. I do not appreciate what you did. Had it been OMW sitting there instead of BH I’m sure it would not have been so entertaining for you. This was supposed to be fun and I told you from the very beginning that my husband was off limits and you were playing with him. What was that? 

OM Relax. Your wonderful man is a ****ing moron, no more. Straight out of the gate, he is a jerkoff. I was not disrespectful to no one. And if anyone was disrespected it was me. We were having a great time till in walks asshat like he owns the place and you were all over him. That arrogant prick walks in and it is like I was not even sitting there. My seat may as well have been empty. I am not used to being ignored. If anyone deserves to be pissed it’s me 

WW was all over him. My husband caught us together, what would you suggest I have done? Ignore him? 

OM That wouldn’t have hurt nothing. You know you are worried about a ****ing moron who can’t tell his head from a hole in the ground, right? You already know this so what is the big deal? 

WW This has to end. What’s with the name calling? What has he done to you? You are the one being arrogant. You were being very rude and he was nice to you and he certainly did not have to be. 

OM Whats with the name calling? You’re totally not serious? You called him dumbo your own damn self. Twice. You called him dumbo while he was still in the parking lot and then you do it again when he leaves. So what’s the big difference with me calling him arrogant? Name calling only permitted for you? I call it the way I see it. He is either too dumb to see whats in front of his own damn eyes or he is too damn arrogant to see beyond the end of his nose. Same results, I win, so where’s my damn prize. Oh, and he wasn’t nice to me. He was nice to you. What has he ever done for me other than **** my girlfriend and I’m getting pretty damn sick of that. I have bested him in every way, you said so yourself. Then BH walks in and it’s like I wasn’t there no more and I’m suppose to be alright with that. 

WW was having to keep his attention diverted so he would not catch on to what you were doing. OM good lord, what was I doing???? 

WW under the table dufus? 

OM To what “we” were doing under the table. You cannot tell me that you were not reciprocating. It was fun as hell and you liked it. 

WW No, I did not. I was pinning your foot to try and get you to stop. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion. This has got to be over. I told u in the beginning that we had to be super smart and here you are playing footsies with BS sitting right there. Talk about BS not having a clue! I am not leaving him for you nor am I going to lose him because of you. I am his wife and I have made a huge mistake. My husband is my life and I am seriously screwing up here. You said there is no way this could turn bad and here you are taunting him. You behave like this is a game. Just stop. 

OM Can I call tonight? Can we talk about this? You really are making too much fuss about this. I get it, I scared you. I am sorry. I guess I thought you would think it was funny. When you called him dumbo in the parking lot I guess I thought you were up with it. 

OM are making me crazy but I can’t lose you. After we tried so hard to meet up then him walking in was a huge disappointment. You know I would do nothing to hurt you baby. 

OM Ok, I learned my lesson. NO harm was done. ****, when he left, he even told us to enjoy ourselves. You gotta admit, that was funny as hell. You laughed too. What’s changed so all of a sudden? From here on I will play this the way you say. I’m gonna call you tonight? 

WW you dare call. I cannot get caught. I cannot even have my husband doubting me for a second. I cannot live with that. 

OM Baby, we played it cool. Sweetheart, what did he do? He got up and left us there. He even paid the damn tab and told us to enjoy ourselves. He told us to enjoy ourselves, didn’t he? 

OM tell us to enjoy ourselves? 

WW lol, he did tell us to enjoy ourselves didn’t he? 

OM He did. I shoulda hit him up for the motel. 

WW He’s a nice guy, something you obviously know little about and he would never suspect me of this in a million years. Lol, he’s smart about everything else but dumb when it comes to me, thank jesus. I bet you everybody in there knew what was going on except for him. 

OM You must be the smart one. . 

WW Smarter than you. Playin footsies with hubby sitting right there. If he had looked down he would have seen what you were doing. You scared the Dejesus out of me. 

OM OK, what I was doing. I’m going to make it up to you baby, I can promise that. Anyways, why the **** you worried bout him? The dumb ass don’t have the sense he was born with. Holding your damn hand while we played footsies. Aint tht some **** 

WW Could that be classified as my first threesome? 

OM Threesome? Honey, you’ve never even had a twosome. ****, you’re still a damn virgin cause you’ve never really been ****ed. You are going to see what you have been missing. I am the real deal, seven inches of real steel. Hell, I know you want your marriage and I respect that, but you deserve a real grown up man and I’ve got the goods. You have waited tooooo looong 

WW I am curious, curious… but I have never given him a reason not to trust me. Don’t mess this up for me Please do not ever do anything like that again. You have every bit as much to lose as I do. I can’t lose BH over this. I’ll walk away in a second. I feel bad enough without you making me feel worse. 

OM It’s my job to make you feel better and you are not going to walk away. You know you want this as bad as me and you said it yourself that you are mesmerized by my sexual power. 

WW I said I was mesmerized by your raw, animalistic, super-horny presence. God I’m horny!!! When he told us to have fun, I knew then that I wanted ‘us’ to happen. You are so baaaddd! God. I think he will be out of town on Tuesday and Wednesday….. 

OM 
Now we are talking baby. I will rock your world and I guarantee you will not be sorry. 
WW But I need you to promise not take stupid chances. That is what will make me feel better. I love him and I am not going to lose him over this. My marriage and family are the most important things in the world to me and I will not jeopardize them for this, whatever this is! Maybe we can have fun, but not at the expense of my marriage. Please promise me that you will not do anything ridiculous. He might trust me but he’s really not stupid. 

OM Oh he’s stupid. You called him dumbo yourself. The m’fers blind too. He is not going to catch on to anything. Compared to me he is in kindergarden. It is time for you to experience pleasure from a real grown-up man. 

WW Hmm, grown up man, I like that! After all this, you better not be all talk…. 

OM My bite is much worse than my bark. You’re making a good trade, lol, a dipstick for a JOYSTICK. 

WW Ooh, I like. Suppose I were to trade my dumbo for your jumbo? 

OM Horny alert! Horny alert! 

WW Later, he’s home. 
OM DON’T HAVE SEX WITH HIM. Winner takes it all baby. He is my adversary and I bested him. Ain’t nothing like the real thing baby. Don't have no more sex with him. 

OM don’t forget who the real man is 

OM You there? Can you call me later?


----------



## G.J.

Yes but she hasn't said that's her husband has she ?


----------



## 2asdf2

zozon said:


> ...


Now people people go to the trouble to register on TAM to post incendiary material that's unhelpful to the original poster.


----------



## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> If I've hurt you, I am sorry and please forgive me. Evinrude58, please do not leave because of the likes of me. I spent a good deal of time yesterday reading the profiles of people who were posting to me. *If was through ignorance that I ended up in a forum of mostly BS. It was not my intention and I am truly sorry that you have experienced pain as a result of my colossal mistakes.* I promise you, I did not come here to do this and your post just breaks my heart. I am sorry that my bad behavior has hurt yet another person. Please forgive.


Then stick around and work the problems with us. Look Wishes, if you are for real and you are DG's ex wife, then maybe if you stick it out and hang with us we might be able to help you get the clarity to are looking for. But the only way to get clarity is to do the hard work. 

Are we a tough crowd? You bet. Our Modus Operandi is to break you down to your core and find out what makes you tick. We take the excuses you have been making, the lies you have been telling yourself, and we hold them up in front of you so you can see them in all their ugly splendor.

It is the only way to purge all the delusion out of you. 

You wont get SI to do this. You will be hard pressed to find a counselor who will do this. We are offering you some good therapy here, and all it will cost you is you time and your courage. 

There are a lot of angry, hurt people here. There are many here who have read DG's thread on the other site. They are disgusted and appalled... as they should be. This is a free speech site and there is no way, other than the Mods warning them or banning them, to protect you from them. 

There are a lot of people here who are willing to help you if you have the courage to withstand the barbs. And, if you did not know, there is an "ignore" function where you can block comments from the meanies.


----------



## bandit.45

zozon said:


> DoneGone said:
> 
> I am starting here because it is easy. I had emails between XW and OM saved. It took a while to find but here is her reference to having a threesome. I apologize if it is too vulgar and if against site rules would ask moderators to remove. Anyway, here is transcript of emails.
> They exchanged many emails but this is the one that hurts the most. I am not really sure why other than the fact that she insinuates that OM out manned me at restaurant which she used as deciding factor to take the adultery physical.
> 
> I happened upon my now XW and OM in a restaurant on the other side of town. She explained, at the time, that she had "ran" into an old family friend and they were just catching up. I sat at the table and talked with them a few minutes and left.
> 
> This is the email exchange between them concerning that incident.
> 
> WW ....huge deal. My husband is my life and you were screwing with my life today. You may think it is daring and bold but it was childish and reckless. Worst of all, you were very disrespectful to my husband (BS). If you disrespect my husband you disrespect me. It is one thing to do what we are doing but it is something else entirely to practically rub it in his face. I do not appreciate what you did. Had it been OMW sitting there instead of BH I’m sure it would not have been so entertaining for you. This was supposed to be fun and I told you from the very beginning that my husband was off limits and you were playing with him. What was that?
> 
> OM Relax. Your wonderful man is a ****ing moron, no more. Straight out of the gate, he is a jerkoff. I was not disrespectful to no one. And if anyone was disrespected it was me. We were having a great time till in walks asshat like he owns the place and you were all over him. That arrogant prick walks in and it is like I was not even sitting there. My seat may as well have been empty. I am not used to being ignored. If anyone deserves to be pissed it’s me
> 
> WW was all over him. My husband caught us together, what would you suggest I have done? Ignore him?
> 
> OM That wouldn’t have hurt nothing. You know you are worried about a ****ing moron who can’t tell his head from a hole in the ground, right? You already know this so what is the big deal?
> 
> WW This has to end. What’s with the name calling? What has he done to you? You are the one being arrogant. You were being very rude and he was nice to you and he certainly did not have to be.
> 
> OM Whats with the name calling? You’re totally not serious? You called him dumbo your own damn self. Twice. You called him dumbo while he was still in the parking lot and then you do it again when he leaves. So what’s the big difference with me calling him arrogant? Name calling only permitted for you? I call it the way I see it. He is either too dumb to see whats in front of his own damn eyes or he is too damn arrogant to see beyond the end of his nose. Same results, I win, so where’s my damn prize. Oh, and he wasn’t nice to me. He was nice to you. What has he ever done for me other than **** my girlfriend and I’m getting pretty damn sick of that. I have bested him in every way, you said so yourself. Then BH walks in and it’s like I wasn’t there no more and I’m suppose to be alright with that.
> 
> WW was having to keep his attention diverted so he would not catch on to what you were doing. OM good lord, what was I doing????
> 
> WW under the table dufus?
> 
> OM To what “we” were doing under the table. You cannot tell me that you were not reciprocating. It was fun as hell and you liked it.
> 
> WW No, I did not. I was pinning your foot to try and get you to stop. I can’t believe we are even having this discussion. This has got to be over. I told u in the beginning that we had to be super smart and here you are playing footsies with BS sitting right there. Talk about BS not having a clue! I am not leaving him for you nor am I going to lose him because of you. I am his wife and I have made a huge mistake. My husband is my life and I am seriously screwing up here. You said there is no way this could turn bad and here you are taunting him. You behave like this is a game. Just stop.
> 
> OM Can I call tonight? Can we talk about this? You really are making too much fuss about this. I get it, I scared you. I am sorry. I guess I thought you would think it was funny. When you called him dumbo in the parking lot I guess I thought you were up with it.
> 
> OM are making me crazy but I can’t lose you. After we tried so hard to meet up then him walking in was a huge disappointment. You know I would do nothing to hurt you baby.
> 
> OM Ok, I learned my lesson. NO harm was done. ****, when he left, he even told us to enjoy ourselves. You gotta admit, that was funny as hell. You laughed too. What’s changed so all of a sudden? From here on I will play this the way you say. I’m gonna call you tonight?
> 
> WW you dare call. I cannot get caught. I cannot even have my husband doubting me for a second. I cannot live with that.
> 
> OM Baby, we played it cool. Sweetheart, what did he do? He got up and left us there. He even paid the damn tab and told us to enjoy ourselves. He told us to enjoy ourselves, didn’t he?
> 
> OM tell us to enjoy ourselves?
> 
> WW lol, he did tell us to enjoy ourselves didn’t he?
> 
> OM He did. I shoulda hit him up for the motel.
> 
> WW He’s a nice guy, something you obviously know little about and he would never suspect me of this in a million years. Lol, he’s smart about everything else but dumb when it comes to me, thank jesus. I bet you everybody in there knew what was going on except for him.
> 
> OM You must be the smart one. .
> 
> WW Smarter than you. Playin footsies with hubby sitting right there. If he had looked down he would have seen what you were doing. You scared the Dejesus out of me.
> 
> OM OK, what I was doing. I’m going to make it up to you baby, I can promise that. Anyways, why the **** you worried bout him? The dumb ass don’t have the sense he was born with. Holding your damn hand while we played footsies. Aint tht some ****
> 
> WW Could that be classified as my first threesome?
> 
> OM Threesome? Honey, you’ve never even had a twosome. ****, you’re still a damn virgin cause you’ve never really been ****ed. You are going to see what you have been missing. I am the real deal, seven inches of real steel. Hell, I know you want your marriage and I respect that, but you deserve a real grown up man and I’ve got the goods. You have waited tooooo looong
> 
> WW I am curious, curious… but I have never given him a reason not to trust me. Don’t mess this up for me Please do not ever do anything like that again. You have every bit as much to lose as I do. I can’t lose BH over this. I’ll walk away in a second. I feel bad enough without you making me feel worse.
> 
> OM It’s my job to make you feel better and you are not going to walk away. You know you want this as bad as me and you said it yourself that you are mesmerized by my sexual power.
> 
> WW I said I was mesmerized by your raw, animalistic, super-horny presence. God I’m horny!!! When he told us to have fun, I knew then that I wanted ‘us’ to happen. You are so baaaddd! God. I think he will be out of town on Tuesday and Wednesday…..
> 
> OM
> Now we are talking baby. I will rock your world and I guarantee you will not be sorry.
> WW But I need you to promise not take stupid chances. That is what will make me feel better. I love him and I am not going to lose him over this. My marriage and family are the most important things in the world to me and I will not jeopardize them for this, whatever this is! Maybe we can have fun, but not at the expense of my marriage. Please promise me that you will not do anything ridiculous. He might trust me but he’s really not stupid.
> 
> OM Oh he’s stupid. You called him dumbo yourself. The m’fers blind too. He is not going to catch on to anything. Compared to me he is in kindergarden. It is time for you to experience pleasure from a real grown-up man.
> 
> WW Hmm, grown up man, I like that! After all this, you better not be all talk….
> 
> OM My bite is much worse than my bark. You’re making a good trade, lol, a dipstick for a JOYSTICK.
> 
> WW Ooh, I like. Suppose I were to trade my dumbo for your jumbo?
> 
> OM Horny alert! Horny alert!
> 
> WW Later, he’s home.
> OM DON’T HAVE SEX WITH HIM. Winner takes it all baby. He is my adversary and I bested him. Ain’t nothing like the real thing baby. Don't have no more sex with him.
> 
> OM don’t forget who the real man is
> 
> OM You there? Can you call me later?


Meh....

We've seen far worse than this.


----------



## ConanHub

Definitely wasn't loving her husband or children despite what she said.

Love is actions. Hers showed nothing but contempt and hatred for her H.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2asdf2

ConanHub said:


> Definitely wasn't loving her husband or children despite what she said.
> 
> Love is actions. Hers showed nothing but contempt and hatred for her H.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We are trying to get beyond ten pages of all that, and be helpful to the OP.


----------



## jorgegene

she got a real prize of an OM.

boy is her OM picker screwed up.


----------



## just got it 55

TheGoodGuy said:


> Wishes, have you taken a look at the SI thread linked a few pages back? Is that your exH?


I really don't think Done Gone Thread should have been posted publicly

Now DG had to drop his pants without any warning in the event he did not want his WW (Wishes) to read his inner thoughts

If he still needs it he lost his safe place

JMO

55


----------



## gpa

Decimated said:


> I agree 100%. The death of a parent, child, close friend, loss of a job, being passed up for promotion, or a brush with serious illness are all triggers that are commonly present in a mid-life crisis/infidelity. If this is DG's XWW then she got a double whammy by loosing both parents within a short amount of time. My XWW lost both parents, 6 months apart. She turned into someone I didn't know and within 8 months, she was cheating with a old high school friend.


Usually I don't give a helping hand to cheaters. But if this story is real I have to look at it with a different eye. Both OPs from their writing and expressions appear to be educated and well established persons. I am extremely impressed by dg's decisiveness. Although he proclaimed his unconditional love to his ww, her behavior was terrible and her choices miserable (at least) to such an extend, that living with her was unbearable to him any more. Such a reaction is absolutely normal and expected by all BSs as human beings.

But in the same time he was certain and assured himself that his ww was remorseful and devastated for her affair. Nevertheless after so many months and posts he revealed that his ww was diagnosed with cancer and lost both her parents, right before the affair, only the last week of his final posts. In my opinion the importance of these facts was to serious to be kept hidden until the end. 

I'm thinking that OP here made a life time mistake if I am using the correct expression. But on the other hand the same time I strongly believe that she was in a very bad mental stable when she took those decisions. And this is quite obvious. I mean she is an educated woman, with good marital history as a wife and a mother. Nevertheless she decided to be impressed and bedded by an idiot who proclaimed his charm by stating and speaking about the length of his d...k! And who played xbox the whole day living and hiding under his wife skirt (Greek expression)! 

What I want to say is that OP's behavior was gross. In such an extend that only a mental unstable person could exhibit. And we have all the signs here. Cancer diagnosis (I would be devastated in her shoes), loss of both parents (the same), mothers funeral the day of the beginning of the affair etc. OP was distracted and as we say in European Law the misconduct was not willful. I think she needs help in order to understand and prove and explain to her xH all the reasons that led her to such a terrible behavior. And if he really loves her he may look at her with a different eye.


----------



## SoulStorm

When I referenced her husband, I had no intentions of connecting the two forums together. I just recognized her story and the extent she went to make sure her husband never found out what she was doing.

I think she has been humiliated and embarrassed enough by the revelations of her actions . They were enough for her husband to divorce her, even though he still loves her.

I think we can be a bit more mature here and not keep airing both sides of the fences into this forum.

She needs help. I apologize for opening this up Wishes.

There are people here who do wish to help you.

I do believe that the best form of love you can show your ex-husband is letting him go.
He can never see you as the same person. 25 years means nothing if you are not consistent in your treatment of him.

A mistake is one thing, but what you did was not a mistake. It was an intentional act and you did it for a while.
How can he ever see you as the Queen he once deemed you after that?
Let him go.

Keep fixing yourself and if you get with someone else, never repeat those actions again.
You paid a huge price and the payoff was nothing but tragedy and emptiness....


----------



## gpa

G.J. said:


> ....
> The arm chair psychologists can mull over the funeral etc but that sort of event brings out emotions that are in built in us....not create new ones
> It NORMALLY brings us closer to our loved ones....


I agree but... many times works the other way around!


----------



## Marduk

Feeling sorrow isn't going to help you.

Acting on it to be a better person and coming up with real answers for your behaviour will.


----------



## SofaKingWeToddId

Looks like DG is closing his thread on SI. 

I don't think his thread should have been posted here. We tell people all the time not to share their thread with their wayward spouse. Maybe share it via PM or in the private forum. Not trying to rip on the people that posted the link, but I think everyone should be more careful in the future.

@Wishes. I think there is still a lot you can learn posting here. Let's hear your side. You should probably lower your expectations that he will ever take you back, but there is still a lot you can gain from posting.


----------



## FMOOD

> _I do believe that the best form of love you can show your ex-husband is letting him go.
> He can never see you as the same person. 25 years means nothing if you are not consistent in your treatment of him.
> A mistake is one thing, but what you did was not a mistake. It was an intentional act and you did it for a while.
> How can he ever see you as the Queen he once deemed you after that?
> Let him go.
> Keep fixing yourself and if you get with someone else, never repeat those actions again.
> You paid a huge price and the payoff was nothing but tragedy and emptiness...._


soulstorm,
from your above words, and actions - posting the thread of her husband's thread from SI on here - sounds to me like you are a cold blooded sociopath, that gets a kick out inflicting more suffering and pain on others... I am sure you advice, trolling, and negative actions are not appreciated by most... get a life... and try not destroy others lives / souls... which by the looks of it, you seem pretty good at doing...

Wishes,
I would not take andy advice or listen what ss has to say on here... he is bad news... 

I would say and think your husband is not as cold blooded as ss is, so where there is hope, and I do believe there is hope from reading both of your stories - never say never, and never give up...


----------



## GusPolinski

OK, so apparently Wishes is indeed DG's XWW.

And it looks like OMW may have somehow caught wind of this thread and shared it w/ Wishes'/DG's kids...?

That's pretty messed up.

Not sure it will have the effect she was probably hoping to see. Hell... if anything, it might wind up bringing Wishes and DG back together...

...which would be pretty messed up as well.

Then again, @bandit.45 may very well be correct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

GusPolinski said:


> OK, so apparently Wishes is indeed DG's XWW.
> *
> And it looks like OMW may have somehow caught wind of this thread and shared it w/ Wishes'/DG's kids...?
> *
> That's pretty messed up.
> 
> Not sure it will have the effect she was probably hoping to see. Hell... if anything, it might wind up bringing Wishes and DG back together...
> 
> ...which would be pretty messed up as well.
> 
> Then again, @bandit.45 may very well be correct.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh is this a recent development?


----------



## ConanHub

2asdf2 said:


> We are trying to get beyond ten pages of all that, and be helpful to the OP.


It is absolutely necessary that she realize that she was not loving her husband at all while engaging in an affair with her AP.

She still believes you can love your spouse while fvcking an idiot who makes fun of your spouse right after you slammed them as well.

Her definition of love needs to radically change if she is to change for the better.

She needs to reclassify her behavior as extreme contempt and hatred of her H and, by extension, her children.
@Wishes. How many children? Ages?

What is happening with them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## adriana

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> @Wishes. *I think there is still a lot you can learn posting here. *Let's hear your side. You should probably lower your expectations that he will ever take you back, *but there is still a lot you can gain from posting.*



She would have to be a fool to actually believe that.


----------



## 2asdf2

ConanHub said:


> It is absolutely necessary that she realize that she was not loving her husband at all while engaging in an affair with her AP.
> 
> *She still believes you can love your spouse while fvcking an idiot who makes fun of your spouse right after you slammed them as well.*
> 
> Her definition of love needs to radically change if she is to change for the better.
> 
> She needs to reclassify her behavior as extreme contempt and hatred of her H and, by extension, her children.
> 
> @Wishes. How many children? Ages?
> 
> What is happening with them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has already renounced that. In her original post, I believe.

The point has -in any case- made, repeatedly, excess of fifteen pages.


----------



## ConanHub

gpa said:


> I agree but... many times works the other way around!


Yup. Mom died. Better find a moron to fvck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoulStorm

FMOOD said:


> soulstorm,
> from your above words, and actions - posting the thread of her husband's thread from SI on here - sounds to me like you are a cold blooded sociopath, that gets a kick out inflicting more suffering and pain on others... I am sure you advice, trolling, and negative actions are not appreciated by most... get a life... and try not destroy others lives / souls... which by the looks of it, you seem pretty good at doing...
> 
> Wishes,
> I would not take andy advice or listen what ss has to say on here... he is bad news...
> 
> I would say and think your husband is not as cold blooded as ss is, so where there is hope, and I do believe there is hope from reading both of your stories - never say never, and never give up...


Before you make assumptions, you should look and see if I posted a link. I just referenced the story..I posted no link..so your assumptions are wrong..anyway..whatever


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Oh is this a recent development?


Seems to be.

I also find it curious that DG, upon learning of this thread, outwardly acknowledged that she is "not a strong person" (or something to that effect), which is to say that he more or less echoed a statement that she made herself toward the end of her initial post to this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigfoot

I'm feeling salty. Having followed and re-read DG's thread on SI, and now this one, I have some serious doubts. I'll play along, but in light of what this poster wrote here, for OBS to have made the connection and then shared it with DG's daughters is pretty spectacular. There are a bunch of forums, LS, DB, Ch. Ldy, etc.

Besides, from DG's thread, his wife had involved the kids in this, they had chosen sides and then felt betrayed when the truth came out, thus I can't for the life of me figure out why he'd be angry at OBS or why he'd close his thread and announce that he was going to post under another name, thereby giving away the plan. It was the facts that gave it away not screen name. 

In any event, I see this playing out in the following fashion: DG is so protective of his XW that he's monitoring her posts and trying to protect her. He needed to divorce to prove a point. She now tells us how "perfect" he was and how she blew it and gets raked over the coals by angry BS's and then he comes to her rescue by defending her on these sites and they get back together. Real or not, that is how I see it playing out.>


----------



## ConanHub

2asdf2 said:


> She has already renounced that. In her original post, I believe.
> 
> The point has -in any case- made, repeatedly, excess of fifteen pages.


I will double check but believe she still claims to have AWAYS loved her husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> Looks like DG is closing his thread on SI.
> 
> I don't think his thread should have been posted here. We tell people all the time not to share their thread with there wayward spouse. Maybe share it via PM or in the private forum. Not trying to rip on the people that posted the link, but I think everyone should be more careful in the future.


Sorry. I don't agree. These are open, public forums. If a person doesn't want their story passed around from site to site, then that person shouldn't air dirty laundry in public. It is not the job of the posters on these sites to be assessing what is and what is not proper fodder for public discussion. It is not our job to decide what is ethical or what is not. 

Such are the pitfalls of free speech.


----------



## bandit.45

ConanHub said:


> I will double check but believe she still claims to have AWAYS loved her husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I loved my 1965 Plymouth Fury. And I still have fond memories of that tank. 

But I didn''t hesitate to sell it when I found a Jeep CJ I wanted.


----------



## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> Seems to be.
> 
> I also find it curious that DG, upon learning of this thread, outwardly acknowledged that she is "not a strong person" (or something to that effect), which is to say that he more or less echoed a statement that she made herself toward the end of her initial post to this thread.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll be blunt.

I think the outcome she is looking for is to find a way to emotionally manipulate her husband into coming back now that she has encountered difficulty in her life and wants support.

And I suspect if that difficulty were to vanish, so would wanting her husband back, or any attempts to improve.

She executed a strategy to get what she wanted in the short-term, and now that the long-term is playing out, she wants to turn back time. This is like pissing all your money away before you retire, and then saying 'poor me' when you're too old to work.

At any rate, I believe the only way she will improve her happiness or her lot in life is if she stops throwing herself a pity party over her own decisions.


----------



## Wishes

FMOOD said:


> soulstorm,
> from your above words, and actions - posting the thread of her husband's thread from SI on here - sounds to me like you are a cold blooded sociopath, that gets a kick out inflicting more suffering and pain on others... I am sure you advice, trolling, and negative actions are not appreciated by most... get a life... and try not destroy others lives / souls... which by the looks of it, you seem pretty good at doing...
> 
> Wishes,
> I would not take andy advice or listen what ss has to say on here... he is bad news...
> 
> I would say and think your husband is not as cold blooded as ss is, so where there is hope, and I do believe there is hope from reading both of your stories - never say never, and never give up...


Thank-you FMOOD. You certainly are a brave soul but now I fear you are going to be preyed upon by ferocious predators seeking to extend their feeding frenzy.


----------



## GusPolinski

Wishes said:


> Thank-you FMOOD. You certainly are a brave soul but now I fear you are going to be preyed upon by ferocious predators seeking to extend their feeding frenzy.


Not really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> Thank-you FMOOD. You certainly are a brave soul but now I fear you are going to be preyed upon by ferocious predators seeking to extend their feeding frenzy.


Predators? 

Cool. Can I be a wombat?


----------



## 2asdf2

Wishes said:


> Thank-you FMOOD. You certainly are a brave soul but now I fear you are going to be preyed upon by ferocious predators seeking to extend their feeding frenzy.


I was once called a puzzycat. ........I think it ended in cat...


----------



## Decorum

By


----------



## Wishes

bandit.45 said:


> Predators?
> 
> Cool. Can I be a wombat?


ha. I was thinking more in the line of Piranhas.


----------



## Wishes

2asdf2 said:


> I was once called a puzzycat. ........I think it ended in cat...


yes, you are a puzzycat


----------



## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> ha. I was thinking more in the line of Piranhas.


Hey, at least Piranhas don't play favorites. And we leave you alone once we've had our fill. :grin2:

Seems like you want to talk, so talk to us.


----------



## bandit.45

From S.I. today. 

*
"I am ending this thread, it is beginning to cause problems for my ex and children. thanks to everybody. I can never repay. 
another marriage forum got a hold of my posts and are posting and causing damage. really sorry to have to go...."

"Let me close with this. I do love my wife and always will. she gave me three beautiful daughters and was a wonderful mom and wife. She is being attacked on another forum and OMW whom I have dated several times shared these with my kids. This is cold and calculated. I called Ex wife and told her to get off that site and register here. If she does, please treat her kindly."
*
*[This message edited by DoneGone at 11:45 AM, February 24th (Wednesday)]*

Well Wishes, are you going to obey your ex?


----------



## Jponce06

I've followed DGs thread and I deeply sympathize with him. Only story I can truly say I got tears reading and really had high hopes for him to make it safe.
As for those that accused SI is being too slow and not getting to the point. I have to commend SI the people there didn't jump and posted this thread openly to DG a courtesy that was not returned by TAM memembers. 
As an SI and a person who really hopes the best for DG I'm disappointed that people decided to post his thread here. Had it been an ex wife escaping a mentally abussive ex husband (which I feel wishes made him feel "insane with Othello syndrome"). People here would of been outraged.
Wishes I agree with your ex husband leave this forum and register in SI. I've never really followed TAM but the feeding frenzie here makes loveshack.org forums seem tame. You will not get any closure here or emotional support. The midecum of helpful comments are drowned out by pure hateful ones. I agree you may deserve them but it's counter productive


----------



## EllisRedding

I am convinced this whole thread was the mastermind of the TAM moderators to bring in new users :grin2:


----------



## 2asdf2

Jponce87 said:


> I've followed DGs thread and I deeply sympathize with him. Only story I can truly say I got tears reading and really had high hopes for him to make it safe.
> As for those that accused SI is being too slow and not getting to the point. I have to commend SI the people there didn't jump and posted this thread openly to DG a courtesy that was not returned by TAM memembers.
> As an SI and a person who really hopes the best for DG I'm disappointed that people decided to post his thread here. Had it been an ex wife escaping a mentally abussive ex husband (which I feel wishes made him feel "insane with Othello syndrome"). People here would of been outraged.
> Wishes I agree with your ex husband leave this forum and register in SI. I've never really followed TAM but the feeding frenzie here makes loveshack.org forums seem tame. You will not get any closure here or emotional support. The midecum of helpful comments are drowned out by pure hateful ones.* I agree you may deserve them* but it's counter productive


You could not help yourself, could you?

Oh, the irony!


----------



## Wishes

bandit.45 said:


> Hey, at least Piranhas don't play favorites. And we leave you alone once we've had our fill. :grin2:
> 
> Seems like you want to talk, so talk to us.


...said the spider to the fly...


----------



## donny64

Unfortunate the stories were linked. It's going to create even more unnecessary pain for all involved. 

Wishes.....You will be a better person at the end of this. You know your heart is good, but for a serious lapse in judgement. It was a mistake with serious and long lasting regrets, repercussions and consequences. But this does not have to define you for the rest of your life. 

Your H is likely gone for good. You will have to let go of any hope of reconciliation before you can move on with your life. You want that, and your H wants that for you. He does not seem the type to wish everlasting ill upon you because of what you did or the pain you brought to him. He understands it seems you are a good woman who made a grave error. An error he could not forget, as much as it seems he wished he could. Now it is time for you to understand that about yourself as well. 

Continue your counseling, keep making amends to your kids and ex the best you can, but let go completely of him and start rebuilding your life. The days where you can't breath and are a basket case will slowly start to be replaced with less difficult days, and eventually happy days. 

Some day his anger will subside enough to where you can again be a solid (albeit broke up) family. From the way both of you sound, and your kids, I feel certain you will all adjust to this new family dynamic after a while, and will begin to function as a family unit again, and find pleasure in each other's company as a family. Seems impossible to think that can be the case, but it can. I had such a hatred for my ex many years ago over what she did to me that I knew it would be impossible to ever be in the same room with her again without losing it. Fast forward 10 years and envision us sitting side by side, smiling, laughing, and sharing stories as our child graduated. She and my now W get along just fine. Her now H is an outstanding man I respect and am thankful to have as "the other dad" to our child when I am not there. As impossible as it seems now, it can and likely will happen judging by both you and your ex's words and temperaments. But it will take time.

Look forward to, and work towards that day. Begin to heal, and believe me, there are still quality men out there searching for quality women. Your infidelity does not have to define you going forward. Become that quality woman again, never make this mistake again, and you will find happiness. It may be tinged with regret, but you will find it. Until then, one foot in front of the other, take that next breath, and keep going. 

Repair yourself, repair your family to the extent possible, let him go and move forward.


----------



## GusPolinski

Decorum said:


> NO! NO! NO!... (she shared some messages with DG's children, that were found between Om and his ex) this happened before wishes even posted on TAM!!
> 
> Has nothing to do with this thread.
> 
> Btw childrens ages...
> 
> He was not happy about his Gf doing that. She (New GF) won't do something like that again.
> 
> Word on the other thread is that wishes left alot out, but DG doesn't want her beat up. He is done and wants to move on without drama.
> 
> These recrimination are silly, but imo this thread has run its course, I'm out.


Ah. Well damn. Seems I misunderstood.

Anyway, I can't see DG not dumping OMW after that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

Poor kids

Used and abused


----------



## Decorum

By
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

GusPolinski said:


> Ah. Well damn. Seems I misunderstood.
> 
> Anyway, I can't see DG not dumping OMW after that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No you were right Gus Bandit quoted a post by DG I hadnt seen.
I have edited out my error. Sorry.

Please edit out my incorrect statements if you have a mind to thanks.

I agree, but she did what she did and will maybe lose her chance just like wishes did. Actions have consequences.

Thats life.





bandit.45 said:


> From S.I. today.
> 
> *
> "I am ending this thread, it is beginning to cause problems for my ex and children. thanks to everybody. I can never repay.
> another marriage forum got a hold of my posts and are posting and causing damage. really sorry to have to go...."
> 
> "Let me close with this. I do love my wife and always will. she gave me three beautiful daughters and was a wonderful mom and wife. She is being attacked on another forum and OMW whom I have dated several times shared these with my kids. This is cold and calculated. I called Ex wife and told her to get off that site and register here. If she does, please treat her kindly."
> *
> *[This message edited by DoneGone at 11:45 AM, February 24th (Wednesday)]*
> 
> Well Wishes, are you going to obey your ex?


Thanks Bandit for the correction!!!

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FMOOD

> Thank-you FMOOD. You certainly are a brave soul but now I fear you are going to be preyed upon by ferocious predators seeking to extend their feeding frenzy.


I think the hateful posts are the unforgiving bitter spouses where the spouses left them, and probably for the better anyway - they need someone to project their anger & frustrations on, and you seem be to an easy scapegoat. 

With that said, I have been on your husbands end, and I wish my wife had a fraction of the remorse that you have shown throughout your ordeal. As one poster mentioned about how this plays out - maybe it will bring the two of you together again. You messed up, we all mess up, but where there is a will, there is a way, and the way you expressed yourself in your first post without your husband knowing, I am sure he knows now... I am hopeful for the two of you. Hang in there... Best of luck to you...


----------



## TBT

I don't see what the problem is really. Infidelity happened. His take is on SI. Her take is here. Essentially the same story. Help or not.


----------



## just got it 55

bandit.45 said:


> Then stick around and work the problems with us. Look Wishes, if you are for real and you are DG's ex wife, then maybe if you stick it out and hang with us we might be able to help you get the clarity to are looking for. But the only way to get clarity is to do the hard work.
> 
> Are we a tough crowd? You bet. Our Modus Operandi is to break you down to your core and find out what makes you tick. We take the excuses you have been making, the lies you have been telling yourself, and we hold them up in front of you so you can see them in all their ugly splendor.
> 
> It is the only way to purge all the delusion out of you.
> 
> You wont get SI to do this. You will be hard pressed to find a counselor who will do this. We are offering you some good therapy here, and all it will cost you is you time and your courage.
> 
> There are a lot of angry, hurt people here. There are many here who have read DG's thread on the other site. They are disgusted and appalled... as they should be. This is a free speech site and there is no way, other than the Mods warning them or banning them, to protect you from them.
> 
> There are a lot of people here who are willing to help you if you have the courage to withstand the barbs. And, if you did not know, there is an "ignore" function where you can block comments from the meanies.


Wishes.......... take your lumps that are due and the ones that are intentionally hurtful brush off to ignorance and / or cruel stupidity

Oh you know what you did... but you should still stand up for yourself and remind posters you are here for help.

The Mods will keep the hounds at bay and posters like @Bandit45 and @happyman64 will show you the tough love you need to help get you to a better place.

Don't go away

Your life will be changed forever but

The best thing God has ever made is another day

55


----------



## ConanHub

2asdf2 said:


> She has already renounced that. In her original post, I believe.
> 
> The point has -in any case- made, repeatedly, excess of fifteen pages.


Well thanks. Just reread the OP and came to the exact same conclusion.

She claims to have loved her husband while conducting her affair and later said she had always loved him.

Wrong in both her statements and she is in serious need of a redefinition of love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

FMOOD said:


> I think the hateful posts are the unforgiving bitter spouses where the spouses left them, and probably for the better anyway - they need someone to project their anger & frustrations on, and you seem be to an easy scapegoat.
> 
> With that said, I have been on your husbands end, and I wish my wife had a fraction of the remorse that you have shown throughout your ordeal. As one poster mentioned about how this plays out - maybe it will bring the two of you together again. You messed up, we all mess up, but where there is a will, there is a way, and the way you expressed yourself in your first post without your husband knowing, I am sure he knows now... I am hopeful for the two of you. Hang in there... Best of luck to you...


LOL!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

FMOOD said:


> I think the hateful posts are the unforgiving bitter spouses where the spouses left them, and probably for the better anyway - they need someone to project their anger & frustrations on, and you seem be to an easy scapegoat.
> 
> With that said, I have been on your husbands end, and I wish my wife had a fraction of the remorse that you have shown throughout your ordeal. As one poster mentioned about how this plays out - maybe it will bring the two of you together again. You messed up, we all mess up, but where there is a will, there is a way, and the way you expressed yourself in your first post without your husband knowing, I am sure he knows now... I am hopeful for the two of you. Hang in there... Best of luck to you...


Wishes? Is that you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FMOOD

> Wishes? Is that you?


:grin2: LOL - that is funny, but no, just someone trying to show someone who is obviously suffering a little compassion...


----------



## Tron

I haven't seen a lot of name calling here. And, with a few notable exceptions I think the general consensus for Wishes is to figure out what broke, fix it and become a better person. If this leads to a reconciliation then great but if not at least she can move on with a more hopeful future. 

I don't think it's abusive to tell her that she left her XH broken-hearted and that there isn't much hope for a future with him. That's real.

We can get pretty flowery and dramatic with the language, and I guess that can be hurtful. 

Experience tells me that if you are a wayward trying to reconcile you had better toughen up. What TAM throws at waywards can often not compare in the slightest to what a Betrayed spouse thinks and often verbalizes to their wayward spouse. I've been called all kinds of foul names, been put through the emotional wringer, been broken down crying in the shower and even taken a few good punches to the ribs and head. And you know what... I deserved every bit of it and maybe more.

Wishes, you're reading it seems. Now talk.

And I don't mean just taking potshots from your keyboard at meanies on the interwebs. 

What was going on with you? What were you feeling at the time? How were you feeling? What led you down that destructive path? And why?

As a few of the posters have mentioned, these are the steps you have to take to make yourself a safe person for your XH, for your kids, for anyone...TO BECOME A GOOD WIFE AGAIN!

It's not impossible. I did it, you can too. 

How about it?

Some of us actually would love to help you.


----------



## GusPolinski

FMOOD said:


> I think the hateful posts are the unforgiving bitter spouses where the spouses left them, and probably for the better anyway - they need someone to project their anger & frustrations on, and you seem be to an easy scapegoat.
> 
> With that said, I have been on your husbands end, and I wish my wife had a fraction of the remorse that you have shown throughout your ordeal. As one poster mentioned about how this plays out - maybe it will bring the two of you together again. You messed up, we all mess up, but where there is a will, there is a way, and the way you expressed yourself in your first post without your husband knowing, I am sure he knows now... I am hopeful for the two of you. Hang in there... Best of luck to you...


He takes note of her excessive texting and voices his concerns; they're dismissed w/ the usual "He's just a friend..." bit.

He catches her sexting and again confronts -- for this he's treated to the ol' "You're controlling/crazy/insecure!"

He catches her in a PA and (as he says himself w/ the title of his thread) NOW she's sorry?

What's _that_ worth? If you want to know, ask her ex... he did, after all, divorce her.

What she's feeling doesn't necessarily read as remorse. My read? It's a healthy dose of shame coupled w/ confusion, shock, and hurt (and maybe even a bit of anger) at realizing that she didn't hold quite as much sway over her ex as she apparently thought she did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> LOL!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want


----------



## bandit.45

EllisRedding said:


> I am convinced this whole thread was the mastermind of the TAM moderators to bring in new users :grin2:


No. Our TAM moderators aren't that smart. :ezpi_wink1:


----------



## just got it 55

EllisRedding said:


> I am convinced this whole thread was the mastermind of the TAM moderators to bring in new users :grin2:


OR TAM will be acquiring SI or Vice Versa

55


----------



## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want


Not at all. FM just cracks me up!

Gonna interact?

I don't hate you by any means.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want


Well, no....we don't "want" you. 

But we would like you to settle down and give us a chance to help. 


IF....you are who you say you are.


----------



## G.J.

Really would help you wish's to take a few knocks and actually start to open up

A lot of one liners wont cut it

Mind you the more you post the more of your self will come out..afraid?


----------



## Tron

Wishes said:


> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want


I'm not bashful. 

I don't want to insult you. 

I want you to start thinking and start talking. That's all.

If you are not up for it, I worry that you may not be cut out for any kind of reconciliation with your XH. 

I've read some of the wayward threads on SI. My sense is that it isn't much more than a virtual group hug. That and 5 cents won't even get you a cup of coffee, much less your XH back.

Counseling, a hard look in the mirror and some thought provoking discussion might prove to be a lot more beneficial.

Would you like us to suggest some good threads for you to read?


----------



## jsmart

I haven't seen any bashing of OP. 2x4 to help her be truthful with herself. So I don't get this, the bitter BHs are crucifying her. 

I've followed the other thread since last year and got was very sad for Done Gone. I practically did back flips when he kicked POS's @ss. I'm very happy that he D and extra happy that he's dating OBW. Having said all that, I can also have sympathy for OP. She, like so many WWs got lost in the fog. These woman do incredibly hurtful things while in the fog.

I said it earlier and I'll say it again. I think that OP can MAYBE win her husband back if she gives him room, stays off the market, and allows him to have an STR with OBW to relieve stress & anger. 

I say this based on how much he still obviously loves her. The second he learned that others were harsh to her in this thread, he went into protective mode over her. The new woman can be a looker, smart, and offer a bright future together but everyone can see that OP is the one he wanted to grow old with.


----------



## Marduk

Wishes said:


> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want


Ok. Everything else aside. 

What do you want to get from being here? Knowing that you're not likely to ever get your husband back?

All we can offer is our truth. It can feel and be harsh, but you're likely to walk a pretty harsh road to improve and grow. 

The real question I want to ask you is: do you want to feel better or do you want to be better?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

I have liked TAM for a long time, but what transpired in this thread and the apparent inaction of the moderators... 

For a long time I hoped TAM would add a special subforum for (former) waywards and the option of BSes posting with a stop sign for WSes and WSes posting with a stop sign for Bses, I thought it would really help the forum and people who seek help here. This thread reinforces this hope and I wish the TAM owners/power-that-be will implement some changes to protect both BSes (here or on other sites) and WS that come here looking for help. 

Wishes, I hope you will find help to become an emotionally healthy and safe person, a person of integrity, for yourself, your kids, friends&relatives and eventually a future partner. Despite what the words of some may imply, you are certainly not beyond redemption and I truly wish you will find healing in your life. I suggest you start by finding a great individual counsellor for yourself. Best wishes!


----------



## bfree

Sooooo...if we point out things that would hinder your goal to get your exH back then we're piranhas and spiders?

Wishes, I understand the responses you receive can be overwhelming but if you don't have an open mind and an open heart we can't help you.

You said that you've been reading on TAM. If so then hopefully you've read LosingHim's thread. She is a former WS that came here looking for answers. It was rough in the beginning but she stuck it out and continued to interact. By hearing what others have said and having the maturity to keep an open mind she is so much more self aware than she was. Frankly it's (she's) quite amazing. And her marriage which seemed inevitably over appears to be turning around and is now on the upswing. Only you can decide where you want your life to go from here but I cannot think of a better place for a reality check then TAM.


----------



## 2asdf2

bfree said:


> Sooooo...if we point out things that would hinder your goal to get your exH back then* we're piranhas and spiders?*
> 
> Wishes, I understand the responses you receive can be overwhelming but if you don't have an open mind and an open heart we can't help you.
> 
> You said that you've been reading on TAM. If so then hopefully you've read LosingHim's thread. She is a former WS that came here looking for answers. It was rough in the beginning but she stuck it out and continued to interact. By hearing what others have said and having the maturity to keep an open mind she is so much more self aware than she was. Frankly it's (she's) quite amazing. And her marriage which seemed inevitably over appears to be turning around and is now on the upswing. Only you can decide where you want your life to go from here but I cannot think of a better place for a reality check then TAM.


Obviously, she was joking!

And I was a puzzycat!:smile2:


----------



## FMOOD

> I say this based on how much he still obviously loves her. The second he learned that others were harsh to her in this thread, he went into protective mode over her. The new woman can be a looker, smart, and offer a bright future together but everyone can see that OP is the one he wanted to grow old with.


my thoughts exactly...


----------



## Iver

Wishes,

Here's a question you can try to answer...what factor started this whole debacle? If the OM was a symptom what was the cause?


----------



## bfree

2asdf2 said:


> Obviously, she was joking!
> 
> And I was a puzzycat!:smile2:


I know. I was as well. I should have put an emoji.


----------



## GusPolinski

Iver said:


> Wishes,
> 
> Here's a question you can try to answer...what factor started this whole debacle? If the OM was a symptom what was the cause?


Dude had mad Xbox skills.

Imagine if he'd owned a PS4!

:lol: :rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Here is a snippet from a thread from a WW over at the Waywards forum over at SI. 

This is really high-level intellectual stuff guys. So you may need to keep a dictionary close at hand. Very cerebral so prepare yourselves:





> *About four months post DDay my BS and I got tattoos to reemphasize that our relationship is permanent no matter what.
> 
> He got my initial on his arm and I got his initials on my butt cheek. We did it together and were really happy about them. He loved it! It was my first tattoo.
> 
> About a month or so later, he went to get work done on his sleeve and I went with him. I decided to get his name tattooed on my vagina. He loved the idea and enjoys the tattoo very much.
> 
> Now we're six months post DDay and for the past week or so, DH has completely withdrawn emotionally. He simply has no tolerance for me.
> 
> We have a very sexual relationship. It's our way of recharging. My Aunt Flow is in town and so 'Gina has been out of commission for the past week. This past week has also been the one year anniversary of the email he found that led to my discovery. Tensions are running high.
> 
> I don't regret my tattoos because I want to be celibate if our marriage fails, but I wonder if DH regrets his? He has recently been open about finding what he wants in a wife elsewhere if it doesn't work out with us.
> 
> Has anyone else gotten tattoos to symbolize recommitting their relationship? What do you think about this idea?
> 
> If you're against tattoos, then don't bother responding because your opinion will be obvious and redundant. I'm asking individuals who are ok with tattoos in general.*



:rofl: I'm telling y'all, there is some entertaining sh!t over there.


----------



## donny64

jsmart said:


> I said it earlier and I'll say it again. I think that OP can MAYBE win her husband back if she gives him room, stays off the market, and allows him to have an STR with OBW to relieve stress & anger.
> 
> I say this based on how much he still obviously loves her. The second he learned that others were harsh to her in this thread, he went into protective mode over her. The new woman can be a looker, smart, and offer a bright future together but everyone can see that OP is the one he wanted to grow old with.


I doubt a short term relationship will do it. They both need to move on, and maybe in the distant future, once all hatchets are buried, maybe then. But that is likely years off. 

She may....may possibly get her H back down the road. But if she holds onto that hope, her life will be miserable. She's got to work to make amends to all those she hurt, and work on herself, and just let him go completely (besides, I believe it unfair to him for Wishes to hold out this hope and potentially impart a feeling onto him that his decision to leave and not return is painful for her, as he obviously does not enjoy her pain). She needs to be okay with, and happy with being on her own for a while. Once she is again happy with herself, and the pain has eased in him, maybe they can re-connect as substantially different people with some new unshared experiences (other relationships) that may show them the rarity of what they had pre-affair, and make them both believe that despite the huge wound to their marriage, it is worth trying again.

Until she completely lets go of all hope, and resumes a new life for herself without thought or effort of winning him back, I can't see it happening. This is an educated, self assured, confident guy. He is not going to settle for or be attracted to "damaged goods" (no offense to Wishes or DG). She needs to make herself no longer "damaged goods". He will have to come to her, and I don't see that happening if she is going after him. The faster she moves on and puts this behind her and again becomes a good, happy woman, the better the chances are...slim as they may be.

I consider myself a reasonable person, and realize people make mistakes. I, however, could not take my ex back. And she tried. I walked away and never looked back. And it was painful for a lot of years. There was loneliness. Doubt. Uncertainty. Failed relationships. Frustrations. That did not sway me. While we get along great now, there is no way I would ever connect with her on a romantic relationship level again. Just no way. While it did hurt to see the woman I once loved in pain, it was not...could not be enough to change my mind or allow me to be attracted to her again in that way. She broke me, and I suffer effects of it to this day. I put myself back together, and feel I'm a better man for it all now. But that doesn't erase the memories of the pain inflicted, and the fact that I could never look at her that way again. Some injuries are just too deep.

Despite the desire to sometimes, some people have the self awareness to realize it is something they just can't get past....as much as the heart tries to tell us and make us do different. 

Wishes...when you can honestly make amends to DG and your kids without hope it will somehow sway him to come back, and you are doing it solely for the reason you wish to repair a heart you hurt with nothing to gain but his healing, then you will be getting somewhere positive.


----------



## ing

We are not very good at the virtual group hug. ((((( MEH )))))))I have no idea and frankly do not care if you are the same person as in the SI forums. 

As @Bandit says. We have seen worse anyway. In fact it is rather run of the mill, just written rather better than most. Affairs destroy lives every single day. 

So now you know the BS reaction to your words. I have attempted to explain why. You could write that off as a betrayed spouse bitterness but you would be wrong. 

My Ex is destroyed. In her mind she has lost almost everything. kids, family, the OM did not work out. The truth is that she did not 'lose ' anything. She threw it away. 


You speak as though you are entitled to your husband, tell us how great he is, how special and what a good Father.

Do you desire him as the man you married Wishes?

If you can not honestly answer a resounding and enthusiastic yes to that question then the love you feel is him as a family member and that is not enough for reconciliation. 

I suspect some of the pain comes from the fact you no longer feel that way. That after so long it has gone. That is normal in a long term relationship and is negotiated together, over many years as desire waned. 

It is simple, elemental and to very core of your relationship. Originally there were just two of you holding hands, looking into each others eyes. Burning with desire. He remembers that, he knows what you are capable of and that you felt that for another guy. Recently. 

Can you summon that up with your ExH Wishes?


----------



## bandit.45

*Ing *had far worse done to him by his xWW.


----------



## bigfoot

EllisRedding said:


> I am convinced this whole thread was the mastermind of the TAM moderators to bring in new users :grin2:


Or somebody. That's why I figured I'd go ahead and finish the story early. Cliff notes version.


----------



## Evinrude58

I am not trusting of anyone on these forums anymore. 

With the Hurtdude thread and his shenanigans, I see too many similarities.

Th DG guy's wife has an affair, he catches her in coincidental circumstances with an OM who is a jobless "gamer", he then gets in a fist fight with the OM and gets the best of him whereas the OM shortly thereafter lands in jail when the cops come, and winds up dating the OM's pretty wife. Oh, and the whipped OM asks OP to "call his wife and tell her he's been knocked out". Ridiculous. Does anyone but me see the similarities?
I'm in disbelief that a woman in these circumstances would fool around with a guy that hasn't had a job in 12 years. The OM then brags about "besting him", in spite of the fact that OP says she loves her husband and would never leave him. That is stupid. Even my ex wouldn't go out with some guy that had no income.
He also didn't actually post a copy of the conversation, he typed it out. Who does that?

I think there's a possibility this might be real, but am doubtful..............

As for the cheating wife........ She truly does seem remorseful, yet the emails seem nonsensical. She is turned on by that loser with the immature nonsense he was spouting about a joystick? That wouldn't turn on an 18 year old, for goodness sake. He also supposedly in making her uncomfortable about saying bad things about her husband, then immediately she reacts like a sex-starved idiot with his comments about his "real manliness and 7" of steel". And it's after the husband catches her, that she on the same day decides she wants to screw the OM.

Last of all, the DG guy has shown what I believe to be excessive amounts of strength in all this, like "Hurtdude" supposedly had. I don't believe it. He probably WOULD have caved to her if she stopped all nonsense, became transparent, and showed true remorse. 

Then again, like "hurtdude", "wishes" is all about the one-liners in response to things she reads. Who does that, too?

Maybe I'm the only one seeing fiction here.


----------



## ing

Evinrude58 said:


> Maybe I'm the only one seeing fiction here.


If I hadn't lived my very own B movie I would say the same!

I tend to agree on this one though.


----------



## NewPhoenix5

I'm a crossover from SI. At SI there are more hugs and stuff. I've gotten my share of 2x4's at both. Both places have given me great advise, great insight, and just the right amount of help. I fled here to post without my WW seeing my posts. It definitely is difficult for DoneGone to express himself now with the xWW there (and possibly his daughters?). My WW seems very similar to her. I wish him well and also Wishes.


----------



## Decorum

Wishes said:


> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want






2asdf2 said:


> Obviously, she was joking!
> 
> And I was a puzzycat!:smile2:




I don't think so, she is manipulating the situation.

This has worked out well for her.

Her competition has likely disqualified herself.

Her husband is in protection mode.

She gets to communicate remorse to him through posts.

She appears as a victim willing to suffer for him.

The criticism here has not been that bad, not for someone as experienced and intelligent as she is.

She is sitting back laughing at us. Hell she spent the day yesterday reading our profiles to see who she could manipulate the easiest.

She may be hurting, but her agenda is clear and she is more than capable of seeing it through. She is still the same person who manipulated and disrespected her husband.

She is just throwing out a few short answers, just enough to keep it going. Its a buzz bait in the water.

Lets get back in touch with DG and get his perspective on this.


----------



## ing

bandit.45 said:


> *Ing *had far worse done to him by his xWW.



It was a long long time ago in a far off land 

I had access to all that inside information rather than it being particularly bad. The thing is they are all bad. All of them. There is never a good outcome for anyone including the WS


----------



## Wishes

Evinrude58 said:


> I am not trusting of anyone on these forums anymore.
> 
> With the Hurtdude thread and his shenanigans, I see too many similarities.
> 
> Th DG guy's wife has an affair, he catches her in coincidental circumstances with an OM who is a jobless "gamer", he then gets in a fist fight with the OM and gets the best of him whereas the OM shortly thereafter lands in jail when the cops come, and winds up dating the OM's pretty wife. Oh, and the whipped OM asks OP to "call his wife and tell her he's been knocked out". Ridiculous. Does anyone but me see the similarities?
> I'm in disbelief that a woman in these circumstances would fool around with a guy that hasn't had a job in 12 years. The OM then brags about "besting him", in spite of the fact that OP says she loves her husband and would never leave him. That is stupid. Even my ex wouldn't go out with some guy that had no income.
> He also didn't actually post a copy of the conversation, he typed it out. Who does that?
> 
> I think there's a possibility this might be real, but am doubtful..............
> 
> As for the cheating wife........ She truly does seem remorseful, yet the emails seem nonsensical. She is turned on by that loser with the immature nonsense he was spouting about a joystick? That wouldn't turn on an 18 year old, for goodness sake. He also supposedly in making her uncomfortable about saying bad things about her husband, then immediately she reacts like a sex-starved idiot with his comments about his "real manliness and 7" of steel". And it's after the husband catches her, that she on the same day decides she wants to screw the OM.
> 
> Last of all, the DG guy has shown what I believe to be excessive amounts of strength in all this, like "Hurtdude" supposedly had. I don't believe it. He probably WOULD have caved to her if she stopped all nonsense, became transparent, and showed true remorse.
> 
> Then again, like "hurtdude", "wishes" is all about the one-liners in response to things she reads. Who does that, too?
> 
> Maybe I'm the only one seeing fiction here.


Oh I get it. You stomp the heart out of a trusting soul and snuggly declare that it wasn’t real. Who are you? Who does that? Just another days work?


----------



## Tron

Wishes said:


> Oh I get it. You stomp the heart out of a trusting soul and snuggly declare that it wasn’t real. Who are you? Who does that? Just another days work?


Are we even reading the same thread?


----------



## ing

Wishes said:


> Oh I get it. You stomp the heart out of a trusting soul and snuggly declare that it wasn’t real. Who are you? Who does that? Just another days work?


Are you going to answer my question Wishes?


----------



## ing

Cue the on hold music


----------



## sam59

Wishes, DoneGone,

You need to take ownership of the fact that you went to the internet for advice. I post on SI too ! You should assume the risk associated ! 

FMOOD seems wants to be the WHITE KNIGHT HERE . Who is he ?


----------



## Marduk

Answering 1% of questions with questions, while ignoring the rest...

Fascinating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

Wishes said:


> Oh I get it. You stomp the heart out of a trusting soul and snuggly declare that it wasn’t real. Who are you? Who does that? Just another days work?


Boo hoo hoo.

And those are your good points Evinrude58!

Ha! Ha! Just kidding Evinrude58.

You have payed your dues here! You don't get to be the scapegoat today.

Wishes you are a big gurl, pull up your big gurl pany's and stop hiding being that victim mask!

I don't buy it.

If you want to talk fine, but what you are doing now is bull****.


----------



## Wishes

I am disappearing so quickly I fear tomorrow I will be nothing more than a vapor.


----------



## sam59

A Vapor would clearly be you greatest use in life !


----------



## just got it 55

Evinrude58 said:


> I am not trusting of anyone on these forums anymore.
> 
> With the Hurtdude thread and his shenanigans, I see too many similarities.
> 
> Th DG guy's wife has an affair, he catches her in coincidental circumstances with an OM who is a jobless "gamer", he then gets in a fist fight with the OM and gets the best of him whereas the OM shortly thereafter lands in jail when the cops come, and winds up dating the OM's pretty wife. Oh, and the whipped OM asks OP to "call his wife and tell her he's been knocked out". Ridiculous. Does anyone but me see the similarities?
> I'm in disbelief that a woman in these circumstances would fool around with a guy that hasn't had a job in 12 years. The OM then brags about "besting him", in spite of the fact that OP says she loves her husband and would never leave him. That is stupid. Even my ex wouldn't go out with some guy that had no income.
> He also didn't actually post a copy of the conversation, he typed it out. Who does that?
> 
> I think there's a possibility this might be real, but am doubtful..............
> 
> As for the cheating wife........ She truly does seem remorseful, yet the emails seem nonsensical. She is turned on by that loser with the immature nonsense he was spouting about a joystick? That wouldn't turn on an 18 year old, for goodness sake. He also supposedly in making her uncomfortable about saying bad things about her husband, then immediately she reacts like a sex-starved idiot with his comments about his "real manliness and 7" of steel". And it's after the husband catches her, that she on the same day decides she wants to screw the OM.
> 
> Last of all, the DG guy has shown what I believe to be excessive amounts of strength in all this, like "Hurtdude" supposedly had. I don't believe it. He probably WOULD have caved to her if she stopped all nonsense, became transparent, and showed true remorse.
> 
> Then again, like "hurtdude", "wishes" is all about the one-liners in response to things she reads. Who does that, too?
> 
> Maybe I'm the only one seeing fiction here.


Wait ... What ? Hurt dude is a troll ? :surprise:

55


----------



## Marduk

Wishes said:


> I am disappearing so quickly I fear tomorrow I will be nothing more than a vapor.


Are you looking for someone to rescue you?


----------



## ing

Wishes said:


> I am disappearing so quickly I fear tomorrow I will be nothing more than a vapor.


And that is when you start again. When everything is lost.


----------



## G.J.

Wishes said:


> I am disappearing so quickly I fear tomorrow I will be nothing more than a vapor.


You have to start again its that simple

This time build from the ground up so you have a solid foundation

What things are coming out from your talking with your I.C. ?


----------



## Decorum

Wishes said:


> I am disappearing so quickly I fear tomorrow I will be nothing more than a vapor.


OMG so melodramatic.

Answer some questions, engage in dialogue, or just continue trying to shame people into acquiescence and keep making vague threats to yourself.

Either way I'm out.
I have to drill through some tile to try and hang some spice racks (oh goodie!) so I will leave you to your fawning audience.


----------



## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> I am disappearing so quickly I fear tomorrow I will be nothing more than a vapor.


Weight loss is great but isn't that a little extreme!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FMOOD

> FMOOD seems wants to be the WHITE KNIGHT HERE . Who is he ?


SAM59,

Who is he???? You have 9 posts on here... and you act like you know everyone on this forum... who are you? maybe you can introduce me to everyone, as you seem to know everyone on a first name basis.


----------



## TX-SC

Wishes seems to have a flair for the dramatic. She won't answer ANY questions and just feels the need to poke those that do respond. Agreed, there is some harsh crap here, but then that is to be expected when infidelity is discussed. You'll get that here, you'll get it at LS, you'll get a butt load of it at R/Relationships. Hell, it's to be expected! You will come off a little easier in the Wayward form at SI, since you can specifically request that only WS respond (stop sign). But even there, you'll catch SOME flack over this.

The problem is, you won't TALK to us. If you came here to talk, talk! 

Why did you do it? What did the OM provide that the WS did not? You say the sex life with WS was good. So, why mess that up and try something new?


----------



## bfree

FMOOD said:


> SAM59,
> 
> Who is he???? You have 9 posts on here... and you act like you know everyone on this forum... who are you? maybe you can introduce me to everyone, as you seem to know everyone on a first name basis.


Hi, I'm Bill. Nice to meet you.


----------



## Be smart

OK. I wasted 2 hours of my night shift reading this on TAM and other forum. I got yelled from a nice old Lady because I drink two coffes over this and our shift just started.

It is the same writing all over again. People are asking questions,some of us are trying to help you and then some of us are attacking you. This is what I love about TAM.

Now back to. Looking at you replies my Lady you are being sarcastic. You did comment on 3 or 4 occasions and it looked to me like you were making fun of some of us. Not me,but other TAM members. 

If you want to win crowd like someone said,you did it with me. My first post was about support and never losing hope,because life is full of suprises.

But now I have to change my mind. Why you would ask. You came here asking for help,maybe even got some plan how to win your Husband back but you are doing almost nothing. 

You should answer some of the questions but NOT TO US - To yourself. Start from the beggining and try to help yourself first then you can go and help or want back your husband. 

Dont get me wrong. SOme of my words could sound harsh,but it is because I cant expres myself better.

Stay strong.


----------



## alte Dame

ing said:


> .... ((((( MEH )))))))


This was my laugh for the day. Thank you, ing. This is such a train wreck of a conversation that the laugh saved me.


----------



## alte Dame

Wishes,

In your OP you say that you want nothing more than to have another chance with your XH. Wouldn't honoring his wishes now be a reasonable thing to do if you really want him to regain some respect for you?

From what I gather, your ex is on another forum and is not happy with what is happening in this thread. Apparently, he has asked you to not post here anymore.

Is this true? If so, why are you continuing to post? And why are you continuing with childish posts?


----------



## Evinrude58

Wishes said:


> Oh I get it. You stomp the heart out of a trusting soul and snuggly declare that it wasn’t real. Who are you? Who does that? Just another days work?


Just the facts, ma'am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NoChoice

Incredulous in its entirety.


----------



## Kobold

Wishes said:


> Thank-you FMOOD. You certainly are a brave soul but now I fear you are going to be preyed upon by ferocious predators seeking to extend their feeding frenzy.





Wishes said:


> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want





Wishes said:


> Oh I get it. You stomp the heart out of a trusting soul and snuggly declare that it wasn’t real. Who are you? Who does that? Just another days work?





Wishes said:


> I am disappearing so quickly I fear tomorrow I will be nothing more than a vapor.


----------



## Jasel

Maybe this thread just needs to be closed? Don't really see anything productive towards helping the OP. Not to mention the exBH over on SI requested his own thread be closed because of the problems this thread is causing him and his family. Really don't understand why members on both sites felt the need to point out the other threads existence either :scratchhead:


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## GusPolinski

alte Dame said:


> Wishes,
> 
> In your OP you say that you want nothing more than to have another chance with your XH. Wouldn't honoring his wishes now be a reasonable thing to do if you really want him to regain some respect for you?
> 
> From what I gather, your ex is on another forum and is not happy with what is happening in this thread. Apparently, he has asked you to not post here anymore.
> 
> Is this true? If so, why are you continuing to post? And why are you continuing with childish posts?


To be fair, he's advised her not to post here because he's displeased w/ much of the feedback that she's received.

He's probably also a bit put off by the fact that someone has connected the dots w/ respect to the two narratives. In SI he found what he believed to be a safe place where he could slowly open up and share what has probably been the single most painful chapter in his life. Hell, he may have even made some friends over there.

Anyway... now, all of a sudden, his ex starts telling the story from her perspective, and she doesn't quite get the "shoulder rubs and ego kibbles" treatment that waywards usually get over at SI.

I get it. He loves her. She was his wife and will always be the mother of his children. They shared something like a quarter of a century alongside each other, shouldering and sharing every tragedy and triumph along the way. And now it's all gone.

Except... it's not.

So yeah, I can understand that he'd be significantly less than thrilled about having his readership more or less instantly (at least) doubled by a bunch of people that claim to be "on his side" and yet, from his perspective, are yelling at the love of his life.

After all, he's gotten all the support that he needs over at SI. He doesn't need any more.

Still, she's not going to grow in any way that will matter at all if she doesn't start to admit to many of the truths that she already knows.

And that really is all that many of us are saying.


----------



## JWTBL

Wow, that was a waste of an evening.


----------



## Bibi1031

Wishes, two wrongs a right don't make. You came here asking for help. Some of the advice was really good and you focused on the one that made you shut down and retaliate. 

Please stop attacking and also feeling victimized. Use want you need and toss the rest. Kudos for even posting! 

I am truly sorry for everything you lost due to falling prey to infidelity when you were at a very vulnerable point in your life. YOU are Human and with time your children will forgive you and hopefully respect you again. Your X still loves you and so do your children. That is obvious. They are just very hurt and rightfully distrustful. Their behavior is perfectly NORMAL. 

Give them and yourself time and space apart. Work on you through your therapist. Let time do its thing to help everyone heal. 

You're marriage is gone forever. Your husband will NOT be yours again. Sorry, but love has to come with trust and respect and you lost everything except his love. Obviously his love is not enough to make him come back to you. Your transgression caused a point of no return. 

Please refocus your efforts on regaining your children's respect and trust. Work on YOU for YOU. There are NO shortcuts; there is no reconciliation card on your table. Let it go.


(((((Hugs))))))

I wish you peace and patience in these some very stressful times in your life.

Bibi


----------



## Iver

Evinrude58 said:


> ...I'm in disbelief that a woman in these circumstances would fool around with a guy that hasn't had a job in 12 years....Even my ex wouldn't go out with some guy that had no income.


Many valid points made but while I'd say the above seems true to me in theory I've actually seen attractive, presentable women (both early 40's) get involved with ridiculously disgusting low-lifes. I wouldn't have thought it possible if I hadn't seen it personally. 

An affair with a jobless low-life jackass is unfortunately quite believable to me.


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## bandit.45

I played the game to see if she was for real. 

I don't believe any of it.


----------



## alte Dame

GusPolinski said:


> To be fair, he's advised her not to post here because he's displeased w/ much of the feedback that she's received.
> 
> He's probably also a bit put off by the fact that someone has connected the dots w/ respect to the two narratives. In SI he found what he believed to be a safe place where he could slowly open up and share what has probably been the single most painful chapter in his life. Hell, he may have even made some friends over there.
> 
> Anyway... now, all of a sudden, his ex starts telling the story from her perspective, and she doesn't quite get the "shoulder rubs and ego kibbles" treatment that waywards usually get over at SI.
> 
> I get it. He loves her. She was his wife and will always be the mother of his children. They shared something like a quarter of a century alongside each other, shouldering and sharing every tragedy and triumph along the way. And now it's all gone.
> 
> Except... it's not.
> 
> So yeah, I can understand that he'd be significantly less than thrilled about having his readership more or less instantly (at least) doubled by a bunch of people that claim to be "on his side" and yet, from his perspective, are yelling at the love of his life.
> 
> After all, he's gotten all the support that he needs over at SI. He doesn't need any more.
> 
> Still, she's not going to grow in any way that will matter at all if she doesn't start to admit to many of the truths that she already knows.
> 
> And that really is all that many of us are saying.


I agree with what you are saying, Gus. I think, though, that given the dynamic that has developed, she is much better served finding another way (forum, therapy, etc.) to confront her demons.


----------



## sparrow555




----------



## edwardpresto

A year is not enough to heal wounds. If you believe you two could get back together then you should first fixed yourself.

Stop seeing the other person and do something that will help you improve yourself and get over the pain you are experiencing right now.

Give some time. I cheated on my wife and it took me a lot of time and hard work before I gained her trust and love.

I'm not sure the weight if a wife cheated on her husband but it still it takes time for healing and you should be patient.


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## manfromlamancha

Wishes, the most hurtful and disrespectful thing I have read in a long time was the exchange between you and your boyfriend with regard to your (ex) husband! I really don't know how your husband kept himself out of jail - if it had been me I would be locked up for a double homicide!

Your POS boyfriend felt he "outmanned" your husband and you even went as far as to say that it was at that moment that you decided to fvck him - agreeing that your husband had been outmanned.

How can you possibly expect your ex-husband back ? And your ex-husband is still defending you on his thread !

What you did was vile and I guess you know it. Your ex-husband needs to know that you really, really know what he went through and felt at the time and this is an almost impossible task for you - because you are not a man, not a husband and certainly not your ex-husband!

I do think your ex-husband is a noble man and if you really do love him, let him go and let him heal. Be the best you, that you can be and maybe, just maybe he might see this and come back.


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## manfromlamancha

And by the way the title of your thread is a gross understatement (which is also part of the problem). "Not a good wife" doesn't even begin to describe what you have been to your ex-husband.


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## eric1

Rather than playing Monday Morning Quarterback on what was done, Wishes is obviously looking for help. 

Wishes, do understand that there are many people here willing to help. These people are very qualified and have been through what you've been through and, obviously, been victims of what you've been through.

"Help me get my ex-husband back" isn't helping you though. I think at this point that you realize that this could be futile. Perhaps your initial post here was a cry for help. The reason why we can't help you with that is that is *results-based* assistance. We can't help you achieve a single thing, since to even consider getting there so many other things need to happen.

Ironically if you were to ever be in position to be with him again, you would not necessarily be trying for him.

So where does this land us? You clearly need to work on you. I'm of the school of thought that you can't go out and be all 'you need to find empathy!' Because while that's factually correct it doesn't necessarily help you.

Much like betrayed spouses after just finding out, you need to put one foot in front of the other and take decisive, determined action. Do ONE thing, and get good at it.

Can you describe your relationship with your children at this point (and to other posters, yes i am familiar with how she used them, so no recap necessarily needed  )


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## ConanHub

I think her relationship with the kids is a good place to start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

There has been a lot of question asked to of you Wish's and no answers

If you can not face anonymous people in a forum with just type written words what chance have you of facing your self


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## happy as a clam

Just an observation, but the recent one-line zinger posts by Wishes don't seem at all like the original heartfelt remorseful posts by Wishes.

I'm beginning to wonder if we're even still talking to the real Wishes... Perhaps her account was compromised? Someone figured out her password?

Especially since her husband asked her to take down the thread as it is harming his children, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that she would keep lobbing these one-liners...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wishes

eric1 said:


> Rather than playing Monday Morning Quarterback on what was done, Wishes is obviously looking for help.
> 
> Wishes, do understand that there are many people here willing to help. These people are very qualified and have been through what you've been through and, obviously, been victims of what you've been through.
> 
> "Help me get my ex-husband back" isn't helping you though. I think at this point that you realize that this could be futile. Perhaps your initial post here was a cry for help. The reason why we can't help you with that is that is *results-based* assistance. We can't help you achieve a single thing, since to even consider getting there so many other things need to happen.
> 
> Ironically if you were to ever be in position to be with him again, you would not necessarily be trying for him.
> 
> So where does this land us? You clearly need to work on you. I'm of the school of thought that you can't go out and be all 'you need to find empathy!' Because while that's factually correct it doesn't necessarily help you.
> 
> Much like betrayed spouses after just finding out, you need to put one foot in front of the other and take decisive, determined action. Do ONE thing, and get good at it.
> 
> Can you describe your relationship with your children at this point (and to other posters, yes i am familiar with how she used them, so no recap necessarily needed  )


Eric, I do agree with you. I spent several months on this site before registering to see if there was help for me. There are people here willing to help and I sense you are one of them, however, you have misquoted me. I never said, “Help me get my husband back.” My question was whether I should continue ‘hoping’ or ‘give up hope.’ Nothing more. No doubt, the people on this site have seen enough of these type situations as to know what I could reasonably expect. During the year we have been separated, I did entertain the expectation that we would eventually get back together. Once the divorce was final and he was moving on with his life in a different direction, that hope was gone.

Yesterday, I thought it quite unfortunate that I had placed myself in the midst of a gang of the angry betrayed, but today, I see things quite differently. It was my mistake to assume I would be received any differently than I was. If I were here to get my husband back, I would take it all and more, however, being flayed alive is a bit much. But who could better tell me just how my BH felt but others who have walked the same road of betrayal. So I apologize to you and also, I thank-you. Please overlook the disturbance I have created.


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## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> I think her relationship with the kids is a good place to start.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thank you Conan, you've been a bad boy, but I forgive you:smile2:


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## TheTruthHurts

Others who read her BS thread said he believes Wishes is not a strong individual.

What if Wishes is in fact a quiet, reflective, sheltered woman who doesn't really have any hard edges? The BS crowd here clearly includes guys who were once gently, trusting, nice guys. After DDay, maybe not so much.

But thread after thread here is a group of people screaming at the BS saying "she is not who you think she is". What happens??? Nothing. They still see the beautiful, gentle, loving wife and want desperately to find her again.

Why wouldn't a WW also believe this? Why do you expect Wishes is NOT still in shock, trying to get back and hit the reset button? Isn't that what EVERYONE wants?

So why aren't we soliciting more and judging less? How can a WW get past the shock if we only have 2x4 in the toolbox?

Maybe Wishes IS that WW who still is what all the BS really want - someone who made a life altering set of choices, but is still not strong, gentle, vulnerable?


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## naiveonedave

@Wishes you have nothing to apologize to this board for (your family OTOH). I feel for you that your horrible choices ruined your M and hope you can use this forum to improve yourself.


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## Slow Hand

Drop your guard, Wishes, if you truly want to get help. There is no other way, you must humble yourself. 

I hope things are looking brighter for you and your XH, never give up hope.


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## happy as a clam

Wishes said:


> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want





Wishes said:


> thank you Conan, you've been a bad boy, but I forgive you:smile2:


Ok, is it just me or are these last two comments bordering on flirtatious?

It's becoming clearer and clearer how Wishes got caught up with her "bad boy from the wrong side of town" in the first place. These comments don't sound like they are coming from a mortified wife...


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## TheTruthHurts

happy as a clam said:


> Wishes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Leave FMOOD alone, it's me you want
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes said:
> 
> 
> 
> thank you Conan, you've been a bad boy, but I forgive you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, is it just me or are these last two comments bordering on flirtatious?
> 
> It's becoming clearer and clearer how Wishes got caught up with her "bad boy from the wrong side of town" in the first place. These comments don't sound like they are coming from a mortified wife...
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. My W sometimes has a naive playful side - but she is very trusting, gentle, not cynical. So it depends on the person. I agree someone could take that as flirtation, but a naive, trusting person would not intend or read it that way.


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## happy as a clam

TheTruthHurts said:


> ...but a naive, trusting person *would not intend* or read it that way.


Hence, my comment how she got into trouble in the first place. I doubt she was "intending" to have an affair when it all started... 

A truly remorseful wife (and she's had a year) would be keeping her boundaries firmly in check. Especially realizing that her ex-husband is likely now reading this thread.


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## Tron

Wishes,

The last 10 pages have for the most part been folks waiting for some substance. 

We'd like to help but need to know what we have to work with.

You apparently have some claws and a bit of a temper. 

Is that all? Who are you? 

What else do you have to offer? 

The suggestion to start talking about your relationship with your kids is a good one I suppose. If that is something you are willing to talk about then at least we can get a dialogue going.

And if not that, what do you feel comfortable talking about?


----------



## G.J.

ConanHub said:


> I think her relationship with the kids is a good place to start.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes good place to start Wish's


----------



## manfromlamancha

Wishes, I have no wish to flay you or dash your hopes.

My statements were made to make sure that you completely destroyed him not just by having the affair, but also what was said at the time to your POSOM! To say it was hurtful would not even begin to cover it.

Anyway, it sounds like you know what you have done. As I said, I believe that you can (and should) always hope for the best result you desire. But it is going to take some hard work with no assured results.

Being the best you that you can be is what it is going to be about. And as Conan said, starting with repairing the relationship with your kids is a good starting place. They need to see a strong but remorseful mother who clearly understands the damage caused and has empathy with all. They need to see how much you love them and their father and how sorry you are. And it has to be honest and sincere - they will see through any act that you put on. It has to be heartfelt and when you are being honest, you will need to admit to difficult stuff.

Next, it is clear to me that your ex-husband still loves you and that is a lot to hold on to and work for - even if you are divorced and never get back together again. Make sure that he sees the improved you and by this, I do not mean begging him to come back, but genuinely helping him in any way you can and continuing to be a stronger, better you.

I get that you know and own that you screwed up badly here, but my real question is (and you need to answer honestly to yourself): "Why do you want your ex-husband back ? - Really".

Is is because you are afraid of being alone, being exposed financially, love him even though you sometimes find him boring, etc etc. You need to list the real reasons you would like him back and then decide for yourself the best course of action. 

You could find another man I am sure. You will be OK financially from what I understand. You now have a freedom to live it up that you never had before. So why do you want him back now that everyone has gone through the pain of the breakup ?

And if the answer is that you truly are in love with him, desire him and want to help and support him, then carry on and you will get a number of people who will support you (not just on online forums like this one). But you need to figure it out for yourself and be truthful to yourself.

I really do wish you the best of luck with this and hope that you see that I am really trying to help.


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## Marduk

OK @Wishes.

To answer your question directly -- yes give up hope to get your marriage back. Realize that you killed it long ago and your actions mean that you no longer deserve your husband.

You can be a better person. To do that means you will either need to accept criticism from yourself or others to grow. Which one is it going to be?

If I leave you with one thing, it is this -- feeling sorry or bad will get you nothing from life. Throwing yourself a pity party is a waste of effort and a plea for empathy that is not returned. You need to take all that energy and turn it into positive action.


----------



## eric1

Wishes said:


> Eric, I do agree with you. I spent several months on this site before registering to see if there was help for me. There are people here willing to help and I sense you are one of them, however, you have misquoted me. * I never said, “Help me get my husband back.” My question was whether I should continue ‘hoping’ or ‘give up hope.*’ Nothing more. No doubt, the people on this site have seen enough of these type situations as to know what I could reasonably expect. During the year we have been separated, I did entertain the expectation that we would eventually get back together. Once the divorce was final and he was moving on with his life in a different direction, that hope was gone.
> 
> Yesterday, I thought it quite unfortunate that I had placed myself in the midst of a gang of the angry betrayed, but today, I see things quite differently. It was my mistake to assume I would be received any differently than I was. If I were here to get my husband back, I would take it all and more, however, being flayed alive is a bit much. But who could better tell me just how my BH felt but others who have walked the same road of betrayal. So I apologize to you and also, I thank-you. Please overlook the disturbance I have created.


I think that we are on the same page, and perhaps just haven't made the connection in the middle.

You probably should give up hope at this point and work on yourself. That in itself is working towards and outcome where you can conceivably produce the emotion of hope again. But when you begin producing hope again, if what you've done has worked, then you will not be hoping for him. The end result may BE getting him, but you're hope will be centered more upon your happiness being a product of surrounding yourself with healthy relationships.

It is a lot of work cultivating healthy relationships. The previous (and let's be honest, probably current) you has defined happiness by what felt good to you. That's like eating a Snickers, feeling good for 8 minutes, then crashing and needing more.

True happiness is making others around you happy because you yourself are happy. It's a pretty great state of being that is incredibly difficult to get to and incredible difficult to maintain. But being incredibly happy -- you will NOT be thinking things like "can I ever get him back?". If he's with someone else, and he's happy, your only (material) thought will be how to make that even better for him, the father of your children. Not how to break up his current happiness and return him to you like some sort of possession.

That part of your life is over if you want it to be. I'd encourage you to consider this route.


----------



## G.J.

eric1 said:


> true happiness is making others around you happy because you yourself are happy. It's a pretty great state of being that is incredibly difficult to get to and incredible difficult to maintain. But being incredibly happy -- you will not be thinking things like "can i ever get him back?". If he's with someone else, and he's happy, your only (material) thought will be how to make that even better for him, the father of your children. Not how to break up his current happiness and return him to you like some sort of possession.


gold

.


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## wmn1

My question for Wishes is if she has a gameplan yet ?

If I was her, I would break out a notebook and devise a gameplan to take care of my physical health, my mental health, to start and rebuild the relationship with the kids, have a gameplan to improve relations with the ex husband, and job oriented goals.

I would track these and improve my situation daily but also learn to take a breather. 

She has been penalized for her actions and rightfully so but she also needs to learn to forgive herself (while not rugsweeping - and I have no fear that she will rugsweep) while simultaneously getting the rest of the family to forgive her. Wishes needs peace of mind at some level now.

Also, writing a journal and reaching out to friends for activities and finding new hobbies would help Wishes as well.

She needs to pass the time while doing some constructive things. It will help her move on.

I wish Wishes the best of luck and despite the mauling she took here, she has stuck around. That takes guts.


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## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> thank you Conan, you've been a bad boy, but I forgive you:smile2:


You have no idea how bad but absolutely faithful as well.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NewPhoenix5

Wishes,

My WW and you seem to be quite similar in the response to the outing of the affair. Yours is probably better than hers only because DG has responded more vigorously than I have to the betrayal.

He has divorced you and I am trying to reconcile, but who is suffering more now? I wake up at 2 am to 4 am every morning, hyperventilating. I look over at her and she is there holding me. I try to be still to not wake her, but the thoughts and mind movies of her OM and her race through my head. The injustice of it all. Her having the affair as she raged on me, as she asked her children to help cover up the affair when she slipped up, the laughing at me as I tried to convince her to stop the affair... I think about them every day, for hours. There is no place I can go, nothing I can do to stop the pain from flooding over me.

I rage at her in my mind. I scream at her and the OM as I drive to and from work. The rage simmers below the surface. I keep it hidden at home because I am trying to R and my children are around. My wife withdrawals and shuts down when I bring it up--she is too ashamed to really think about the whys. If I out the other man (he has no family) the damage would only circle around to hurt my children. If I inflict consequences on my wife, they primarily would fall upon my children. There is no hope there is no recourse for justice or appeasement. I only sit and my hurt and resentment and anger eats away at me.

My wife tells me she loves me and that she would never betray me again.  I thought that the first time. I know the pain I show to her may not even matter, because when I was in MC and IC regarding her affair, she continued on with it for months and months. There is nothing I can believe in now. 

She has not had any consequences. Sure I make her go to IC and MC now. Sure her eldest daughter knows of her cheating. But she still gets to be held in my warm embrace, she still is living in our beautiful house. She still has 100% access to our children. We still go on vacations and we still, from the outside, are the perfect couple with five beautiful children. We have it all.

But the injustice of it all is eating at me. I am thinking more and more about divorce, that I can't absorb what has happened. That the OM goes off to wreck the next family and my wife gets to carry on as if nothing happened... It galls me. It eats at me. I'm not sure how much more I can take...

But DoneGone is healing. Sure, he's lost the love of his life. Yes he will never forget what was done. But he is getting better every day. He's becoming whole again, slowly and surely. As an individual, he is becoming strong and healthy. Yes he's lost his marriage. But he has his honor and dignity.

You want to still be married with him, that I can see. But would you have him be the healing man that is getting better or the bitter and resentful man that is dying a slow death on the inside.

I don't know what will happen with me and my WW. We are still just a few months out from my last DDay (though the first DDay was Aug of 2013). It's been two and a half years of hell and I can't see an end in sight. But I'm still married... What would you wish for your husband?

Perhaps in a year, when he is a full and healthy person, when you have faced your demons and worked on yourself, you both can approach each other as two unique and whole individuals and once again wed. I don't know DoneGone, nor you, but I am guessing that he will require his next bride to be a whole and complete and healthy woman. You be that person when he may be ready.

NP5


----------



## ConanHub

How many and how old are your kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wishes

*NewPhoenix5*


"You want to still be married with him, that I can see. But would you have him be the healing man that is getting better or the bitter and resentful man that is dying a slow death on the inside

I don't know what will happen with me and my WW. We are still just a few months out from my last DDay (though the first DDay was Aug of 2013). It's been two and a half years of hell and I can't see an end in sight. But I'm still married... What would you wish for your husband?"



Yes, I want to be married to him. The problem is that when you love a person, you think your love can fix whatever is broken, even if you did the breaking. I have heard many voices saying that I do not love my ex-husband. It would be great, if I didn't. Don't you wish you did not love your wife? 

Just as your wife, I did everything I could to hold on to my husband. He chose to divorce me and I do not blame him. To answer your question, I believe his life will be better without me. I believe he can be happier again quicker, without me being there as a constant reminder. 

He has made it very clear that he is probably not done with me, but I believe he is. He is going to have justice. He is too good a person to have a revenge affair(s), but he fully intends to have 'relationships.' So, my chances are slim to none.

I don't know your wife, but if she is anything like me, then she is crushed and sorry. She is ashamed, humiliated and sad. But this is not about the way she feels, it's about the way you feel. My husband did not want to suffer with me for 5 or 10 years and then end up leaving anyway.

I am sorry you are enduring this and in my own way, I feel somewhat responsible.


----------



## Iver

My advice to NewPhoenix5 (and Wishes) is please see their physician and discuss what they are going through. Perhaps anxiety medication is called for. 

Please do not suffer needlessly. 

Those medications exist for a good reason.


----------



## Marduk

Wishes said:


> *NewPhoenix5*
> 
> 
> "You want to still be married with him, that I can see. But would you have him be the healing man that is getting better or the bitter and resentful man that is dying a slow death on the inside
> 
> I don't know what will happen with me and my WW. We are still just a few months out from my last DDay (though the first DDay was Aug of 2013). It's been two and a half years of hell and I can't see an end in sight. But I'm still married... What would you wish for your husband?"
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I want to be married to him. The problem is that when you love a person, you think your love can fix whatever is broken, even if you did the breaking. I have heard many voices saying that I do not love my ex-husband. It would be great, if I didn't. Don't you wish you did not love your wife?
> 
> Just as your wife, I did everything I could to hold on to my husband. He chose to divorce me and I do not blame him. To answer your question, I believe his life will be better without me. I believe he can be happier again quicker, without me being there as a constant reminder.
> 
> He has made it very clear that he is probably not done with me, but I believe he is. He is going to have justice. He is too good a person to have a revenge affair(s), but he fully intends to have 'relationships.' So, my chances are slim to none.
> 
> I don't know your wife, but if she is anything like me, then she is crushed and sorry. She is ashamed, humiliated and sad. But this is not about the way she feels, it's about the way you feel. My husband did not want to suffer with me for 5 or 10 years and then end up leaving anyway.
> 
> I am sorry you are enduring this and in my own way, I feel somewhat responsible.


Finally. 

You're ready to begin moving forward. Whatever your mindset was when you wrote this post, please spend some time there. 

I recognize that took courage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> How many and how old are your kids?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmm, how can I say this without flirting. I got it. You already know how many and you also know how old. Why are you asking a question when you already have the answer? (stern tone)


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## bandit.45

Wishes are you in therapy? What parts of you are you working on ?


----------



## Wishes

bandit.45 said:


> Wishes are you in therapy? What parts of you are you working on ?


I was only joking.


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## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> Hmm, how can I say this without flirting. I got it. You already know how many and you also know how old. Why are you asking a question when you already have the answer? (stern tone)


Didn't see it posted. I'll go back and check.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

Wishes said:


> Hmm, how can I say this without flirting. I got it. You already know how many and you also know how old. Why are you asking a question when you already have the answer? (stern tone)


Contrary to some opinion the force is strong in this one


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## eric1

NewPhoenix5 said:


> Wishes,
> 
> My WW and you seem to be quite similar in the response to the outing of the affair. Yours is probably better than hers only because DG has responded more vigorously than I have to the betrayal.
> 
> He has divorced you and I am trying to reconcile, but who is suffering more now? I wake up at 2 am to 4 am every morning, hyperventilating. I look over at her and she is there holding me. I try to be still to not wake her, but the thoughts and mind movies of her OM and her race through my head. The injustice of it all. Her having the affair as she raged on me, as she asked her children to help cover up the affair when she slipped up, the laughing at me as I tried to convince her to stop the affair...  I think about them every day, for hours. There is no place I can go, nothing I can do to stop the pain from flooding over me.
> 
> I rage at her in my mind. I scream at her and the OM as I drive to and from work. The rage simmers below the surface. I keep it hidden at home because I am trying to R and my children are around. My wife withdrawals and shuts down when I bring it up--she is too ashamed to really think about the whys. If I out the other man (he has no family) the damage would only circle around to hurt my children. If I inflict consequences on my wife, they primarily would fall upon my children. There is no hope there is no recourse for justice or appeasement. I only sit and my hurt and resentment and anger eats away at me.
> 
> My wife tells me she loves me and that she would never betray me again. I thought that the first time. I know the pain I show to her may not even matter, because when I was in MC and IC regarding her affair, she continued on with it for months and months. There is nothing I can believe in now.
> 
> She has not had any consequences. Sure I make her go to IC and MC now. Sure her eldest daughter knows of her cheating. But she still gets to be held in my warm embrace, she still is living in our beautiful house. She still has 100% access to our children. We still go on vacations and we still, from the outside, are the perfect couple with five beautiful children. We have it all.
> 
> But the injustice of it all is eating at me. I am thinking more and more about divorce, that I can't absorb what has happened. That the OM goes off to wreck the next family and my wife gets to carry on as if nothing happened... It galls me. It eats at me. I'm not sure how much more I can take...
> 
> But DoneGone is healing. Sure, he's lost the love of his life. Yes he will never forget what was done. But he is getting better every day. He's becoming whole again, slowly and surely. As an individual, he is becoming strong and healthy. Yes he's lost his marriage. But he has his honor and dignity.
> 
> You want to still be married with him, that I can see. But would you have him be the healing man that is getting better or the bitter and resentful man that is dying a slow death on the inside.
> 
> I don't know what will happen with me and my WW. We are still just a few months out from my last DDay (though the first DDay was Aug of 2013). It's been two and a half years of hell and I can't see an end in sight. But I'm still married... What would you wish for your husband?
> 
> Perhaps in a year, when he is a full and healthy person, when you have faced your demons and worked on yourself, you both can approach each other as two unique and whole individuals and once again wed. I don't know DoneGone, nor you, but I am guessing that he will require his next bride to be a whole and complete and healthy woman. You be that person when he may be ready.
> 
> NP5


I am happy that you responded here because I was thinking a little of your situation when I responded back a few posts ago. While the end results may be different between these two situations, funny enough I really think that they're VERY similar.

"I am reconciling" and "I have decided to divorce" are two _things_. DoneGone has decided to divorce, and that decision seems to have served him well. I believe that it's served him well because he quickly understood who he was and what he needed to be happy.

This is also why I didn't get along with the moderators over at SI. They used to shoot me PMs when I'd suggested divorce... well in many cases the simple fact is that I don't look at divorce as this evil thing which needs to be avoided at all costs. 

Maybe Wishes and DoneGone are the right people for each other. Judging by the responses here (and that DoneGone has apparently moved on) perhaps they aren't. Maybe NP5 and Edith are the right people for each other. Nobody knows, not even the players.

I have this pretty strong feeling that as long as you are working towards happiness for yourself in a constructive manner that everything will work itself out in the end. "I am going to save this marriage" and "how do I decide to move on" and "this is not working out for us" are all results-oriented thinking which does not dovetail nicely into my view of the world. 

My view of the world is that if you're gunning for a particular outcome then you're going to have to make compromises along the way to get to THAT goal. That's awesome. Some people become incredible athletes and success businesspeople using just that formula. I feel strongly that this doesn't work with people though. You don't "get" people. You don't "achieve" people. You don't "save" relationships. You do what is true to yourself, and if you do that then things have a way of working out. 

It's why I've been so fascinated by your adventure for so long. It's like imagining two people from different religions from different parts of the world sitting down with each other and having a civil discussion on how to fix a problem. I like my way, it's served me well... but the alternate method that Ive been exposed to , which does include a tremendous amount of tenacity and persistence, also has served me well in many other parts of my life.

How does this apply to Wishes? I really think that she needs to sit back and evaluate what she has. In some senses she's been given a gift of a wake-up call. She doesn't need to be this person any longer and if she becomes a better person then she'll look back on this experience with extreme gratitude. You don't get there by not boiling it down to extreme basics.


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## Vulcan2013

Glad you're opening up. As a former wayward, I'm not going to rage on you, but I think you need to really face the depths of what you've done. 

My infidelity was the tip of the iceberg. Gaslighting my wife and abusing her trust were far worse. Expecting her to take me back (entitlement) and "get over it" was also terrible behavior. 

I have finally developed some empathy for her. The key was facing the fact that I've been a terrible person. I stopped defending and minimizing. And recovery means fixing those low life, rotten parts of my character. We are separated, may R or not, her call. But for where I am, the plan is the same: be a better man. Not dependent on R at all. 

I don't think you should give up hope, just put hope in being a better person and making amends as best you can.


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## eric1

Wishes said:


> *NewPhoenix5*
> 
> 
> "You want to still be married with him, that I can see. But would you have him be the healing man that is getting better or the bitter and resentful man that is dying a slow death on the inside
> 
> I don't know what will happen with me and my WW. We are still just a few months out from my last DDay (though the first DDay was Aug of 2013). It's been two and a half years of hell and I can't see an end in sight. But I'm still married... What would you wish for your husband?"
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I want to be married to him. The problem is that when you love a person, you think your love can fix whatever is broken, even if you did the breaking. I have heard many voices saying that I do not love my ex-husband. It would be great, if I didn't. Don't you wish you did not love your wife?
> 
> Just as your wife, I did everything I could to hold on to my husband. He chose to divorce me and I do not blame him. To answer your question, I believe his life will be better without me. I believe he can be happier again quicker, without me being there as a constant reminder.
> 
> He has made it very clear that he is probably not done with me, but I believe he is. He is going to have justice. He is too good a person to have a revenge affair(s), but he fully intends to have 'relationships.' So, my chances are slim to none.
> 
> I don't know your wife, but if she is anything like me, then she is crushed and sorry. She is ashamed, humiliated and sad. But this is not about the way she feels, it's about the way you feel. My husband did not want to suffer with me for 5 or 10 years and then end up leaving anyway.
> 
> I am sorry you are enduring this and in my own way, I feel somewhat responsible.


It's not that you don't love your husband, it's that you love yourself more. You wouldn't have done what you did if it was opposite. Hell, you even compromised your poor children in all of this. I'm not throwing out conjecture, I'm just stating a fact. You need need need need need to completely understand this. 

For you to rebound from this you need to become the person who puts others first. I cannot help you get there, but myself and others here can be an anonymous (albeit at times hostile) sounding board for you to use. We'll be one of many tools that you need to independently become a better person.

The biggest gift of all of this is that your children will see what you are doing, and this will be their takeaway. Each of your girls will be a bad person at some point in their lives, it's how fast they recover for it and how they try to change themselves is what matters. Please work on this, they're your children that you brought into this world and it's critical that you help them blueprint what a healthy person does in situations like this. 

NP5 has a different problem in this sense, his wife still puts herself first. That's why the path he's on will never work out. He's been leading that horse to water for almost two years, and she'll drink when he pushes her head down hard enough. For you to be what you need to be you need to kick the stupid ugly horse in the face and drink the damn water yourself.


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## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> I was only joking.


grrr....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wilson

Wishes, you can get great help here, but you need to change your communication style. Please don't take offense at this, but you're coming off very flippant, flirty, and distant with your replies. Don't try to be cute or defensive. Just try to talk from the heart and respond to the questions people are asking. Again, don't take offense, but your style is similar to many of the phony people who make up stories here to get their jollies (they're called trolls). You need to either take this seriously or else everyone is going to give up.

We're all just regular people like you with different opinions. You're not going to agree with everyone and vice versa. People won't remember every detail, so don't get mad if someone asks you something you answered 20 pages ago.


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## Iver

Wishes said:


> Just as your wife, I did everything I could to hold on to my husband.


I'm not sure this is accurate. Do you think a straight forward confession would have been better than engaging in a long drawn out drama that also entailed getting your children involved? I suspect that made your situation much worse. It certainly hurt your relations with your children.

What did you think was going to happen once your husband saw the emails between you and the OM? Since that was going to happen why continue to hold on to the "just in-appropriate friends" story line?

A slight tangent. Why was the OM so over the top antagonistic towards your husband? It seemed quite personal with him. Was that ongoing or a one time thing?

As for NP5's wife, I wouldn't be surprised to find that she and her OM were plotting to kill him...and that's why she doesn't want her emails read. Believe me, no one familiar with his ordeal would be surprised...


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## G.J.

Nicely put Wilson


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## G.J.

Why not tell us YOUR side from the start like DG did

There are always 2 perspectives to every event

some will be the same some will be more revealing

Its a big task as it will open you up completely

It will allow us to actually talk to you and not keep getting snippets

It will be hard if your fully open


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## NewPhoenix5

Yes, I want to be married to him. The problem is that when you love a person, you think your love can fix whatever is broken, even if you did the breaking. I have heard many voices saying that I do not love my ex-husband. It would be great, if I didn't. Don't you wish you did not love your wife?.

*No, I wish away the pain, anger, and resentment, not the love. I believe that the love will outlast the others, if I do not feed them. Perhaps I can hold on until the tide turns. My wife has told me that she never stopped loving me. I believe her because she has really been working on herself and making an effort to change. She is not any good at showing remorse. Horrible at it. Came on SI and was defensive as a mother bear with a wounded cub. But her actions and her attitude, of late, and her love shows me she is.*

Just as your wife, I did everything I could to hold on to my husband. He chose to divorce me and I do not blame him. To answer your question, I believe his life will be better without me. I believe he can be happier again quicker, without me being there as a constant reminder. 

*That may be so, but I do know that when I am hurting, when I am seething and angry, and when she takes hold of me and says she's so very sorry, everything gets better for a time. Like I said, I don't know how this will play out.*

He has made it very clear that he is probably not done with me, but I believe he is. He is going to have justice. He is too good a person to have a revenge affair(s), but he fully intends to have 'relationships.' So, my chances are slim to none.

*This is where he can heal. He is going about healing in an honorable way. You may face him finding a new love. But he says he still loves you, even through all the hurt, the horrible things you have done and said. The love is still there. There is hope. I loved her when I met her, I loved her as I watched her drive off to see the OM, and I will always love her. But love is not enough sometimes. You need trust, humility, kindness, and appreciation for each other -- how can you show that? By letting him know you're waiting for him, that you are fixing yourself, that you appreciate him for who he is, that you value his wellbeing, that you are kind to him and his children, and that you show you're responsible again. This includes letting him make the choice that's best for him to heal.*

I don't know your wife, but if she is anything like me, then she is crushed and sorry. She is ashamed, humiliated and sad. But this is not about the way she feels, it's about the way you feel. My husband did not want to suffer with me for 5 or 10 years and then end up leaving anyway.

*How I feel is DEEPLY affected by how she feels. Without her remorse, my R is doomed. I know this. Does she? Does she know that the ball is in her court? Does she know that I am waiting for her to prove herself safe, honorable, loving, and true? Some things you cannot tell someone. They either get it or learn it or they don't. I can't R for her, and you can't R for him. But you do your part by posting here and engaging. These are VERY experienced people. I have learned so much from them and others on SI. One line answers don't help them help you. Sometimes you have to open yourself up to fix what's inside. I did and it has saved me.*

I am sorry you are enduring this and in my own way, I feel somewhat responsible.[/QUOTE]
*
Thanks Wishes, best of luck.*


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## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> Didn't see it posted. I'll go back and check.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I'm sorry. I was looking for traps.
I have 3 kids, all about grown and out of the house.
I have a great relationship with them, which I owe to BH.
They were very upset for awhile and wanted to disown me but
BH would have none of that.


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## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> I was only joking.


No seriously, are you in any counseling currently?


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## TheGoodGuy

Wishes said:


> Yes, I want to be married to him. The problem is that when you love a person, *you think your love can fix whatever is broken, even if you did the breaking.* I have heard many voices saying that I do not love my ex-husband.


This is key, and I bring it up not to harp on it but because it's important. This is one reason the hurt is so deep and profound for a BS. That it was the one person who was supposed to love and protect, and be there for us when bad stuff happened. That one person WAS the one doing the hurting, causing the pain, doing the breaking. 

That's what your ex went through.

Thank you for sticking around to dig into it with us.


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## Wishes

wilson said:


> Wishes, you can get great help here, but you need to change your communication style. Please don't take offense at this, but you're coming off very flippant, flirty, and distant with your replies. Don't try to be cute or defensive. Just try to talk from the heart and respond to the questions people are asking. Again, don't take offense, but your style is similar to many of the phony people who make up stories here to get their jollies (they're called trolls). You need to either take this seriously or else everyone is going to give up.QUOTE]
> 
> No, I can't answer that. I happen to be at work and jumping on and off here. As per my personality? I am friendly and outgoing. I like people. I am bubbly in nature. I was (still am) in charge of all PR in our business, meet new clients, develop new leads, organize events and have developed this aspect of my personality over the years. But never flirt. My one liners yesterday were meant to cut through some of the tension and to see if any of you were human. After thinking about it last night, I chose your side against my own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iver said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure this is accurate. Do you think a straight forward confession would have been better than engaging in a long drawn out drama that also entailed getting your children involved? I suspect that made your situation much worse. It certainly hurt your relations with your children.
> 
> What did you think was going to happen once your husband saw the emails between you and the OM? Since that was going to happen why continue to hold on to the "just in-appropriate friends" story line?
> 
> A slight tangent. Why was the OM so over the top antagonistic towards your husband? It seemed quite personal with him. Was that ongoing or a one time thing?
> 
> As for NP5's wife, I wouldn't be surprised to find that she and her OM were plotting to kill him...and that's why she doesn't want her emails read. Believe me, no one familiar with his ordeal would be surprised...
> 
> 
> 
> OMW got my children involved and I lied. Yes, it was so wrong but I was hoping for it to go away.
> 
> I did not think husband would see the emails. He trusted me completely.
> 
> OM's tangent was based upon the fact that we had been buddies for over 6 months with no physical contact. He was upset because I was sleeping with my husband and not him.
Click to expand...


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## Wishes

bandit.45 said:


> No seriously, are you in any counseling currently?


I am. ex husband is also.


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## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> I am. ex husband is also.


That's good. Do you have a counselor who gives you homework? Holds your feet to the fire?


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## SoulStorm

OK..since I'm a sociopath and psychopath, I have a question;

Has the OM tried to get with you recently since your divorce was final and how do you feel about him now?


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## alte Dame

Sometimes you just hurt someone too much. People have breaking points where they know they need to save themselves. DG's thread made it clear that you hurt him too much. NP5 sounds like he is getting there.

What I see happen all the time is that a BS may try to hang on and save things and that becomes almost a fever for them. They are waging a fierce battle and hoping to win, the prize being an intact family with a newly committed spouse.

The aftermath of the battle, however, is what is telling. The affair was destructive; the WS and BS both know that. What they don't really process is the long-term damage the post D-day battle has wrought. So many BS's fight hard to R only to notice that they've lost respect - and love - for the wayward. It then almost becomes an issue of 'be careful what you wish for...'

In your case, Wishes, the aftermath was brutal. The gaslighting, manipulation, blatant positioning of the children for advantage - these all are marriage-killing independent of infidelity, in my opinion.

As I read it, NP5's WW was equally destructive. He has tried valiantly, but we now see that his aftermath is soul-killing for him. I hope he is able to find relief, just as DG has done for himself.

I believe that if you love your ex the way you say you do, you will really let him go. You regret what you did and you may feel remorse, but that is, I think, just a first step toward healing your own broken self and becoming a decent person again. 

Stop trying to figure out how to win him back. Work on yourself. He may tell you he still loves you, but the awful things you did to him have most likely changed deeply both his view of you and his view of his feelings for you.


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## Wishes

lifeistooshort said:


> Well I'd guess the marriage wasn't as perfect as you describe and you've romanticized it in your desire to get him back.
> 
> It's imperative you understand why it happened and why made the choices you did.
> 
> When I say the marriage wasn't perfect I'm not suggesting your hb wasn't an impeccable hb, I'm sure he was. I'm saying that it's highly unlikely in 25 years you guys didn't have normal issues like everyone else.
> 
> So take an honest look at your marriage and why you made the decisions you did. Whether your hb takes you back or not you need to understand this, and he might be more inclined to reconsider if he knows you get it.
> 
> See right now you've lost everything so of course you feel terrible, but you don't know why you did it.
> 
> That is a problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank-you for your thoughtful post and I appreciate your insight. I am not consciously romanticizing our relationship nor trying to characterize it as better, more interesting, or more exciting than it really was. It would certainly make me seem much less the fool if I could point out some problems. You are correct, we did have normal issues like everybody else, however, my husband was the kind of guy that never allowed anything to detract from our relationship. I could give examples all day.

We began having children soon after we were married and I thought we were supposed to put the kids first. It did not take BH long to notice this and he made it known that the kids did not come first but that we came first and that as long as everything was good between me and him, the kids would be fine. He was right about that. If definitely worked for us.

We often routinely traveled with our work. When he was in town, he would move mountains to make sure we met up every day either for lunch or dinner. Sometimes our schedules were in conflict so he would call and talk to me during his lunch. When he was out of town I would usually go with him or fly up for a few days. When i was out of town, he would do the same. We called these times our “mini-honeymoons.” Sometimes I questioned leaving the kids and his response was always, “We’re kids too.”

One last example. My ex-husband is a very good looking man. I was also very attractive when we met and married, however, the aftereffects of having our first child left me feeling very self-conscious. I had gained over 30 lbs and it seemed most of it was still there after the baby was born, I was uncomfortable with him seeing me unclothed and would literally hold something in front of my stomach to shield it from his view. One day he sat me down and gave me a reality check. He reminded me that my body had given us a beautiful baby and as much as he had loved my body before, he said that now he just worshipped it. Then, my husband, (a 22 year old kid), got down on his hands and knees and kissed my belly and thanked it for giving us a beautiful daughter. He gave me this reality check after the birth of each of our children and many times in between.

How do I romanticize that? These are the memories I live with. As far as taking an honest look at my marriage to determine why I made the decisions I did? My marriage had nothing to do with it. That was all me. I was broken and had been broken since early childhood and maybe since birth.


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## Iver

Wishes said:


> OM's tangent was based upon the fact that we had been buddies for over 6 months with no physical contact. He was upset because I was sleeping with my husband and not him.


Did he continue to attack and belittle your husband in your emails later? I'm asking because your husband read your emails and I wonder how much abuse from the OM he came across.

There's an old saying, "No matter how bad a situation is it's always possible to make it worse."

That would certainly make it worse.


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## Wishes

alte Dame

Thank-you for posting on my thread. I appreciate all that you have said and take it to heart.


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## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> OK..since I'm a sociopath and psychopath, I have a question;
> 
> Has the OM tried to get with you recently since your divorce was final and how do you feel about him now?


He's tried. Took out RO. He is a clown and pitiful excuse for a human being.


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## metallicaluvr

Wishes said:


> Thank-you for your thoughtful post and I appreciate your insight. I am not consciously romanticizing our relationship nor trying to characterize it as better, more interesting, or more exciting than it really was. It would certainly make me seem much less the fool if I could point out some problems. You are correct, we did have normal issues like everybody else, however, my husband was the kind of guy that never allowed anything to detract from our relationship. I could give examples all day.
> 
> We began having children soon after we were married and I thought we were supposed to put the kids first. It did not take BH long to notice this and he made it known that the kids did not come first but that we came first and that as long as everything was good between me and him, the kids would be fine. He was right about that. If definitely worked for us.
> 
> We often routinely traveled with our work. When he was in town, he would move mountains to make sure we met up every day either for lunch or dinner. Sometimes our schedules were in conflict so he would call and talk to me during his lunch. When he was out of town I would usually go with him or fly up for a few days. When i was out of town, he would do the same. We called these times our “mini-honeymoons.” Sometimes I questioned leaving the kids and his response was always, “We’re kids too.”
> 
> One last example. My ex-husband is a very good looking man. I was also very attractive when we met and married, however, the aftereffects of having our first child left me feeling very self-conscious. I had gained over 30 lbs and it seemed most of it was still there after the baby was born, I was uncomfortable with him seeing me unclothed and would literally hold something in front of my stomach to shield it from his view. One day he sat me down and gave me a reality check. He reminded me that my body had given us a beautiful baby and as much as he had loved my body before, he said that now he just worshipped it. Then, my husband, (a 22 year old kid), got down on his hands and knees and kissed my belly and thanked it for giving us a beautiful daughter. He gave me this reality check after the birth of each of our children and many times in between.
> 
> How do I romanticize that? These are the memories I live with. As far as taking an honest look at my marriage to determine why I made the decisions I did? My marriage had nothing to do with it. That was all me. I was broken and had been broken since early childhood and maybe since birth.


DAMN. That is just SAD that you lost a man like that. I can only dream of being as good a husband as he was.


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## Marduk

Wishes said:


> As far as taking an honest look at my marriage to determine why I made the decisions I did? My marriage had nothing to do with it. That was all me. I was broken and had been broken since early childhood and maybe since birth.


Can you talk more about that?


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## Wishes

Iver said:


> Did he continue to attack and belittle your husband in your emails later? I'm asking because your husband read your emails and I wonder how much abuse from the OM he came across.
> 
> There's an old saying, "No matter how bad a situation is it's always possible to make it worse."
> 
> That would certainly make it worse.


Only that one time did he attack my husband. He was very upset when hubby walked in and I lit up. That was the basis of his diatribe.


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## G.J.

This is going to be so bitty to follow with these snippets


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## eric1

Wishes said:


> Thank-you for your thoughtful post and I appreciate your insight. I am not consciously romanticizing our relationship nor trying to characterize it as better, more interesting, or more exciting than it really was. It would certainly make me seem much less the fool if I could point out some problems. You are correct, we did have normal issues like everybody else, however, my husband was the kind of guy that never allowed anything to detract from our relationship. I could give examples all day.
> 
> We began having children soon after we were married and I thought we were supposed to put the kids first. It did not take BH long to notice this and he made it known that the kids did not come first but that we came first and that as long as everything was good between me and him, the kids would be fine. He was right about that. If definitely worked for us.
> 
> We often routinely traveled with our work. When he was in town, he would move mountains to make sure we met up every day either for lunch or dinner. Sometimes our schedules were in conflict so he would call and talk to me during his lunch. When he was out of town I would usually go with him or fly up for a few days. When i was out of town, he would do the same. We called these times our “mini-honeymoons.” Sometimes I questioned leaving the kids and his response was always, “We’re kids too.”
> 
> One last example. My ex-husband is a very good looking man. I was also very attractive when we met and married, however, the aftereffects of having our first child left me feeling very self-conscious. I had gained over 30 lbs and it seemed most of it was still there after the baby was born, I was uncomfortable with him seeing me unclothed and would literally hold something in front of my stomach to shield it from his view. One day he sat me down and gave me a reality check. He reminded me that my body had given us a beautiful baby and as much as he had loved my body before, he said that now he just worshipped it. Then, my husband, (a 22 year old kid), got down on his hands and knees and kissed my belly and thanked it for giving us a beautiful daughter. He gave me this reality check after the birth of each of our children and many times in between.
> 
> How do I romanticize that? These are the memories I live with. As far as taking an honest look at my marriage to determine why I made the decisions I did? My marriage had nothing to do with it. That was all me. I was broken and had been broken since early childhood and maybe since birth.


Those sounds like some very nice memories and your husband seems like a really nice guy. 

I remember some great times from high school. In some senses it was the worst time in my life, in some senses it was the best. I carried this baggage onto me to college. I had a hard time making a large group of friends my first year because I was so preoccupied trying to recreate my social scene from high school. I just didn't _understand_. Like it never crosses my conscious self not understand.

So the next year I showed up to school and slowly began making a different social set. I guess I stumbled upon how to do it, or maybe somewhere deep down I knew that I needed to change because the world certainly wasn't going to change for me.

This is a trite example in the face of what you're going up against, but at some point I kind of needed to say "screw it" and point my eyes forward. I lost a lot of my awesome high school friends over the years because life has a way of doing that. Some moved away, some kind of just shuffled out of my life. But I still realize that times were pretty good.

You're in the stage that I was in. Right now you're flipping through your high school yearbook wondering if there was a way to re-capture those memories. There isn't.

You're still an adult in the prime of her life and you only get once chance at this. So the quicker that you detach, the quicker that you'll start healing. (this is earily similar to the advice given to betrayed spouses early on, eh?)

Do little things. Stop giving a ****. Go run five miles even if you can't walk up a flight of stairs. Drink 100 ounces of water a day and then do it again tomorrow. Achievable and realistic are your goals in the short term. Definable. It can't be "I want to wake up happy tomorrow!". Screw that, my life is pretty good and I can't control how I wake up. I can control the things that make me happy though - get to the gym, eat something that I like, do laundry so I don't have to worry about it, make money, watch a movie I like, try something new... whatever. But definable, achievable and realistic. Seriously just pick one thing to do by the end of the day that you wouldn't have done otherwise.


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## Iver

There's definitely animosity towards your husband that may not have been as apparent to you. He mentioned "besting him" repeatedly and you'd agreed with that earlier, so that was irrespective of your lunch meeting. Also mentioned was him being a "real man" You need to understand if he used that term later with you it was used as a put down towards your husband.

I suspect there was a lot more of this than you realized.


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## SoulStorm

You definitely sound like you have been doing a lot of introspection and researching why you did what you did.
I think that is good. I think you learned a very hard life lesson and this will be something you would never do again. It is hard to accept the fact that you lost a loving husband and even tougher to realize you were the cause of it. Good things can happen after chaotic events. I truly hope this one gets you to a place where you can reconcile your bad childhood and be a better partner for someone in the future. You never know..your husband could come back in time.....you have to keep showing that if he does, you will be worth it.


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## Wishes

marduk said:


> Can you talk more about that?


Very difficult. Very, very.
I was raised in an abusive household. My father was verbally, physically and emotionally abusive.
I did not dare open my mouth because it would give him an opportunity to scream obscenities and tell me how stupid I was.
I had two brothers that were just like him.
The crowd that hung around the house were just like them.
I stayed in my room all the time. I had nothing in common with any of them. To this day, most people that knew my family growing up would tell you that they did not know my parents had a daughter or that my brothers had a sister.

Only when I left home for college and met my future husband did my life take a wonderful turn. He was captain of football team and took and interest in me. I asked him why and he said it was my legs. He has never changed that story.


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## Wishes

eric1 said:


> Those sounds like some very nice memories and your husband seems like a really nice guy.
> 
> I remember some great times from high school. In some senses it was the worst time in my life, in some senses it was the best. I carried this baggage onto me to college. I had a hard time making a large group of friends my first year because I was so preoccupied trying to recreate my social scene from high school. I just didn't _understand_. Like it never crosses my conscious self not understand.
> 
> So the next year I showed up to school and slowly began making a different social set. I guess I stumbled upon how to do it, or maybe somewhere deep down I knew that I needed to change because the world certainly wasn't going to change for me.
> 
> This is a trite example in the face of what you're going up against, but at some point I kind of needed to say "screw it" and point my eyes forward. I lost a lot of my awesome high school friends over the years because life has a way of doing that. Some moved away, some kind of just shuffled out of my life. But I still realize that times were pretty good.
> 
> You're in the stage that I was in. Right now you're flipping through your high school yearbook wondering if there was a way to re-capture those memories. There isn't.
> 
> You're still an adult in the prime of her life and you only get once chance at this. So the quicker that you detach, the quicker that you'll start healing. (this is earily similar to the advice given to betrayed spouses early on, eh?)
> 
> Do little things. Stop giving a ****. Go run five miles even if you can't walk up a flight of stairs. Drink 100 ounces of water a day and then do it again tomorrow. Achievable and realistic are your goals in the short term. Definable. It can't be "I want to wake up happy tomorrow!". Screw that, my life is pretty good and I can't control how I wake up. I can control the things that make me happy though - get to the gym, eat something that I like, do laundry so I don't have to worry about it, make money, watch a movie I like, try something new... whatever. But definable, achievable and realistic. Seriously just pick one thing to do by the end of the day that you wouldn't have done otherwise.


OK. I like that


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## SoulStorm

Iver said:


> There's definitely animosity towards your husband that may not have been as apparent to you. He mentioned "besting him" repeatedly and you'd agreed with that earlier, so that was irrespective of your lunch meeting. Also mentioned was him being a "real man" You need to understand if he used that term later with you it was used as a put down towards your husband.
> 
> I suspect there was a lot more of this than you realized.


I think sometimes people just take others for granted. I think she thought that she could get away with it because he loved her so much. She thought that her love for him plus his love for her would help them get past her infidelity....the sad thing about taking someone for granted leaves a whole lot of room to disrespect 
them


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## Wishes

metallicaluvr said:


> DAMN. That is just SAD that you lost a man like that. I can only dream of being as good a husband as he was.


He also had a difficult childhood, in some ways worse than mine. He said his parents taught him 'what not to do' in being a husband and raising a family.


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## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> I think sometimes people just take others for granted. I think she thought that she could get away with it because he loved her so much. She thought that her love for him plus his love for her would help them get past her infidelity....the sad thing about taking someone for granted leaves a whole lot of room to disrespect
> them


He was all talk. He was always talking about the things he could do better. The 'besting him' comment, I do not remember, but I can assure you it was all in his mind.


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## Wishes

G.J. said:


> This is going to be so bitty to follow with these snippets


What do you want?


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## jigga114

After that initial beating you took when people made the connection to your ex, I must admit it took a lot of courage to come back and read through this thread. As rough as this board can be at times, there is a deep well of knowledge and experience here for those who know what they are seeking. After rereading your initial post, I realized there wasn't much of a question other than what the chances are you will get back together with your ex. So my question is, what do you hope to gain by talking about your experiences here? What are you looking for?


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## donny64

Glad to see you back and posting Wishes. 

This place can be brutal sometimes. A lot of BS's here re-live their pain and "trigger" when new WS's come along. In the beginning, there's typically not a lot of empathy given to the plight of a WS. Not until that WS has taken some lumps, sticks it out, and engages the forum and shows a true desire to accept responsibility and fix what's broken. 

Think of it almost like a prison "boot camp" for first time offending wayward youths. This place can tear you down, but IMO, like that boot camp, is the best option to get real direction, support, and rebuilding. You'll come out better at the end of it all, and the lumps taken are often necessary to bring about real and substantive change. 

You will be supported here, and you picked a good place to come....IF you don't want sugar coated support and advice that may do little to do much more than give you false hope. 

Its not a place where you'll get a "awww, there-there, its all going to be alright, you'll do just fine" pat on the back. It's a place where you're gonna get a well deserved kick in the butt, and later, some genuine and well deserved support and caring, IF you work for it (by work for it, that means you must work on yourself and the repairing of the damage you've done).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iver

Wishes said:


> He was all talk. He was always talking about the things he could do better. The 'besting him' comment, I do not remember, but I can assure you it was all in his mind.


The truth or not isn't the issue. It's the comments themselves and your acquiescence with them that are especially brutal. 

On a different note are you doing a workout routine? If not I'd recommend CrossFit or a group class like Barre3 or even a UFC gym workout (lots of women are doing these by the way.) Maybe one of your daughters could join with you?

Don't waste your time at a so-so gym slowly pedaling a bike thinking you are doing something useful. Group classes are the way to go. Really pushing yourself will also do a tremendous amount of good for your mental health.


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## Wishes

jigga114 said:


> After that initial beating you took when people made the connection to your ex, I must admit it took a lot of courage to come back and read through this thread. As rough as this board can be at times, there is a deep well of knowledge and experience here for those who know what they are seeking. After rereading your initial post, I realized there wasn't much of a question other than what the chances are you will get back together with your ex. So my question is, what do you hope to gain by talking about your experiences here? What are you looking for?


I guess I need to just have my catharsis, take a deep breath and move on. I accept the general verdict that my marriage is history. I am not here with expectations that my ex will read, have mercy and take me back. I showed up here at the end of those expectations.


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## eric1

I second crossfit. It's an easy target for criticism these days (due to people posting about it 800 times a day on facebook or the few bad gyms who don't put safety first) but

1. you go to a class with others and can't help but feel part of the group
2. you're being told what to do, and right now your head is swimming. getting SOME direction at this point is like a man in the Sahara finding a cold bottle of water.
3. you'll get your mind off of it for an hour. There is NO WAY you'll be dwelling on it while you're there.
4. you'll suck at it at first like everyone does. It will do wonders for learning about humility, and slowly help you re-establish confidence
5. it is a GREAT way to meet new people.


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## eric1

Wishes said:


> I guess I need to just have my catharsis, take a deep breath and move on. I accept the general verdict that my marriage is history. I am not here with expectations that my ex will read, have mercy and take me back. I showed up here at the end of those expectations.


And it's an important step. You could have just holed up and blamed the world. Good for you.


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## Wishes

Iver said:


> The truth or not isn't the issue. It's the comments themselves and your acquiescence with them that are especially brutal.
> 
> On a different note are you doing a workout routine? If not I'd recommend CrossFit or a group class like Barre3 or even a UFC gym workout (lots of women are doing these by the way.) Maybe one of your daughters could join with you?
> 
> Don't waste your time at a so-so gym slowly pedaling a bike thinking you are doing something useful. Group classes are the way to go. Really pushing yourself will also do a tremendous amount of good for your mental health.


Now you are talking. I do weight training and aerobics. A great stress reliever.


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## Marduk

Wishes said:


> Very difficult. Very, very.
> I was raised in an abusive household. My father was verbally, physically and emotionally abusive.
> I did not dare open my mouth because it would give him an opportunity to scream obscenities and tell me how stupid I was.
> I had two brothers that were just like him.
> The crowd that hung around the house were just like them.
> I stayed in my room all the time. I had nothing in common with any of them. To this day, most people that knew my family growing up would tell you that they did not know my parents had a daughter or that my brothers had a sister.
> 
> Only when I left home for college and met my future husband did my life take a wonderful turn. He was captain of football team and took and interest in me. I asked him why and he said it was my legs. He has never changed that story.


OK. So in some way your affair and subsequent behaviour towards your husband was in some ways validating what you were told as a child?

Now that you're an adult, how are you going to change your idea of yourself and future relationships?


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## Marduk

Wishes said:


> I guess I need to just have my catharsis, take a deep breath and move on. I accept the general verdict that my marriage is history. I am not here with expectations that my ex will read, have mercy and take me back. I showed up here at the end of those expectations.


In my experience, there's no catharsis. There is only a realization of where you want to be vs where you are, and starting the work.


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## TheTruthHurts

Really glad to see you posting . Made my day TBH

Didn't have the chance to read yet but will go back and catch up later tonight.


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## Wishes

marduk said:


> In my experience, there's no catharsis. There is only a realization of where you want to be vs where you are, and starting the work.


I will think about that tonight. I am getting ready to leave work.

Thanks everybody for talking to me.
I feel a little better.


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## karole

Wishes said:


> *He also had a difficult childhood, in some ways worse than mine. *He said his parents taught him 'what not to do' in being a husband and raising a family.


"This is a problem. My marriage was almost perfect. My husband? Well, I would have to think hard and long to come up with a flaw.* He is the product of very good parenting, a very gently nature and forgiving spirit."*

Wishes, did your husband have a bad childhood or a good childhood? You seem to somewhat contradict what you said earlier. Just wanted you to clear that up, please.


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## alte Dame

This is killing all of us, it's so sad. Honestly.

My reaction at the moment is that you, Wishes, have felt throughout your marriage like you couldn't quite believe your good fortune, that a man like your husband loved and honored you the way he did. Your background programmed you to expect a match with a lowdown type of man.

Your marriage was wonderful, your kids are wonderful, but you always felt a bit like it wasn't real. You felt a distance because you didn't really deserve it or fit within it.

You spend years subconsciously waiting for the ax to fall. It never does, because your H and kids love you and are well-adjusted. So, you self-sabotage; you bring on for yourself what your crummy self-image has told you you deserve.

The problem is that you don't really want that result. You really don't want the ax to fall. It's like one part of your psyche that you know is there, but you've been able to master over the years. The OM represents the comfort of that lowdown expectation. At the same time he horrifies you.

I don't know if this sounds familiar to you or not. You just strike a few chords with me in this regard.

Now that you are posting in a more 'normal' way, with the fervor died down, I might suggest that you ask that this be moved to Private. Your XH requested that you leave the forum. In the Private section, your posts won't be visible to everyone.


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## Wishes

karole said:


> "This is a problem. My marriage was almost perfect. My husband? Well, I would have to think hard and long to come up with a flaw.* He is the product of very good parenting, a very gently nature and forgiving spirit."*
> 
> Wishes, did your husband have a bad childhood or a good childhood? You seem to somewhat contradict what you said earlier. Just wanted you to clear that up, please.


no, always his explanation, not mine. he said he was the product of very good parenting and he knew exactly what not to do.


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## jigga114

Venting to strangers online who have no dog in the fight is actually a pretty good way to gain multiple different perspectives. Some of those perspectives will be useful to you, others will not. Take what works and leave the rest. Good luck OP.


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## Wishes

alte Dame said:


> This is killing all of us, it's so sad. Honestly.
> 
> My reaction at the moment is that you, Wishes, have felt throughout your marriage like you couldn't quite believe your good fortune, that a man like your husband loved and honored you the way he did. Your background programmed you to expect a match with a lowdown type of man.
> 
> Your marriage was wonderful, your kids are wonderful, but you always felt a bit like it wasn't real. You felt a distance because you didn't really deserve it or fit within it.
> 
> You spend years subconsciously waiting for the ax to fall. It never does, because your H and kids love you and are well-adjusted. So, you self-sabotage; you bring on for yourself what your crummy self-image has told you you deserve.
> 
> The problem is that you don't really want that result. You really don't want the ax to fall. It's like one part of your psyche that you know is there, but you've been able to master over the years. The OM represents the comfort of that lowdown expectation. At the same time he horrifies you.
> 
> I don't know if this sounds familiar to you or not. You just strike a few chords with me in this regard.
> 
> Now that you are posting in a more 'normal' way, with the fervor died down, I might suggest that you ask that this be moved to Private. Your XH requested that you leave the forum. In the Private section, your posts won't be visible to everyone.


You are so "right on" it is almost surreal. You said something at the very beginning of my post that affected me in the same way. My husband was always so much better than me and he had this way of making me think he thought I was better than him.


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## sapientia

marduk said:


> In my experience, there's no catharsis. There is only a realization of where you want to be vs where you are, *and starting the work*.


Marduk - I typically enjoy your to-the-point posts, however, you are supplying truisms that are, for people who have experienced her kind of abuse, not trivial to overcome. That said, it can be done, yes. But as hurtful as these people can be to others, it fundamentally comes from a place of being highly damaged.

So. How do you motivate someone who hasn't had the positive reinforcement you have perhaps learned? What specific steps do you recommend to get her on the path?

Said differently, "easier said than done". There is an entire literature on learned helplessness that explains just how difficult this can be for some. Again, not an excuse to not act, but for many this is a wide, terrifying river crossing for a non-swimmer, not a simple jump of a puddle.


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## Iver

alte Dame said:


> ...Your background programmed you to expect a match with a lowdown type of man...So, you self-sabotage; you bring on for yourself what your crummy self-image has told you you deserve...


My advice, despite it not being fair to the person in question, is to run from any long term relationships with a woman with a negative or chaotic family background. Too much bad programming gets imbedded in the operating system and never gets deleted.

This is conjecture on my part but I suspect the OM fit her childhood expectations of what a man is supposed to be like vs. her husband who was/is a nice guy. 

There's also the school of thought that a lot of what drives us are subconscious motivations. A thuggish person doesn't seem to make sense but the hindbrain likes what it likes for reasons that made sense in caveman days.

There's also the school of thought that says don't be a "nice" guy. It far too often doesn't end well for them.


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## jorgegene

Wishes said:


> Thank-you for your thoughtful post and I appreciate your insight. I am not consciously romanticizing our relationship nor trying to characterize it as better, more interesting, or more exciting than it really was. It would certainly make me seem much less the fool if I could point out some problems. You are correct, we did have normal issues like everybody else, however, my husband was the kind of guy that never allowed anything to detract from our relationship. I could give examples all day.
> 
> We began having children soon after we were married and I thought we were supposed to put the kids first. It did not take BH long to notice this and he made it known that the kids did not come first but that we came first and that as long as everything was good between me and him, the kids would be fine. He was right about that. If definitely worked for us.
> 
> We often routinely traveled with our work. When he was in town, he would move mountains to make sure we met up every day either for lunch or dinner. Sometimes our schedules were in conflict so he would call and talk to me during his lunch. When he was out of town I would usually go with him or fly up for a few days. When i was out of town, he would do the same. We called these times our “mini-honeymoons.” Sometimes I questioned leaving the kids and his response was always, “We’re kids too.”
> 
> One last example. My ex-husband is a very good looking man. I was also very attractive when we met and married, however, the aftereffects of having our first child left me feeling very self-conscious. I had gained over 30 lbs and it seemed most of it was still there after the baby was born, *I was uncomfortable with him seeing me unclothed and would literally hold something in front of my stomach to shield it from his view. One day he sat me down and gave me a reality check. He reminded me that my body had given us a beautiful baby and as much as he had loved my body before, he said that now he just worshipped it. Then, my husband, (a 22 year old kid), got down on his hands and knees and kissed my belly and thanked it for giving us a beautiful daughter.* He gave me this reality check after the birth of each of our children and many times in between.
> 
> How do I romanticize that? These are the memories I live with. As far as taking an honest look at my marriage to determine why I made the decisions I did? My marriage had nothing to do with it. That was all me. I was broken and had been broken since early childhood and maybe since birth.


good grief..........he really is a heck of a guy.


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## alte Dame

Wishes said:


> You are so "right on" it is almost surreal. You said something at the very beginning of my post that affected me in the same way. My husband was always so much better than me and he had this way of making me think he thought I was better than him.


OK, so talk to me, W. I, too, identify with my description. I am an  educated, successful, fortunate woman in a 33-year marriage with a handsome man. We have two wonderful, well-adjusted grown children.

Throughout our lives together, I have had a background sensation of play-acting my life, that it didn't somehow seem to fit me. My H is not at all the paragon that your ex is. He's pretty much a classic narcissist. Perhaps his own flaws have stopped me from self-sabotaging the way you have. I don't know.

I do know, though, that you have sadly lived down to your own expectations. I understand the impulse. It's somehow a relief to just let go of the expectations.

But here's the thing - you must have known early on that your OM was not the lowdown match that you deserved. You must have seen that you have evolved over the years to actually be a better match for the good man that your XH is. Trashy types often speak with contempt to and about respectable people like your XH. This usually bespeaks insecurity and is a sort of mendacious bravado. Your conversations with the OM show both a comfort level with his trashy self, but also a connection with your XH.

I think you felt entitled to do what you did, all the while feeling undeserving and inadequate. It sounds like a quandary, and probably is on many levels. The problem you have now, perhaps, is to figure out how to feel for the first time ever like a person deserving of the love of a man like your XH, all the while knowing that you have so recently proved that you are not.


----------



## G.J.

G.J. said:


> This is going to be so bitty to follow with these snippets





Wishes said:


> What do you want?





G.J. said:


> Why not tell us YOUR side from the start like DG did
> 
> There are always 2 perspectives to every event
> 
> some will be the same some will be more revealing
> 
> Its a big task as it will open you up completely
> 
> It will allow us to actually talk to you and not keep getting snippets
> 
> It will be hard if your fully open


Because you had to ask the question it shows the problem

The thread is developing into snippets...
a question here a question there 

I originally asked for a full account FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE

so it would be easy for all to engage

Of course it will take a LOT OF EFFORT to type out a full account

And less easy for you to fit answers to questions asked later

But will be more revealing to people to ask questions and zero in on parts


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## Tron

alte Dame said:


> I think you felt entitled to do what you did, all the while feeling undeserving and inadequate. It sounds like a quandary, and probably is on many levels. The problem you have now, perhaps, is to figure out how to feel for the first time ever like a person deserving of the love of a man like your XH, all the while knowing that you have so recently proved that you are not.


Brilliant!


----------



## Augusto

OK this thread is like a sad movie.


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## TheTruthHurts

Augusto said:


> OK this thread is like a sad movie.


Well it is


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## G.J.

DoneGone


> She has joined a forum? She's not a strong woman. If her story match's mine, .


Wish's

Your husband doesn't think your story will match his with his use of the word IF...interesting

I await your full story

unedited


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## SoulStorm

Do you have the answer as to why you went to great lengths to prove that your husband was crazy...I know you did it to hide the fact that you were betraying him, but did you do it because you knew he loved you and would do almost anything you asked?

And how could you say you loved him and still make him feel he was crazy while you watched him struggle? That was torture. You actually tortured him


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## farsidejunky

SoulStorm said:


> Do you have the answer as to why you went to great lengths to prove that your husband was crazy...I know you did it to hide the fact that you were betraying him, but did you do it because you knew he loved you and would do almost anything you asked?
> 
> And how could you say you loved him and still make him feel he was crazy while you watched him struggle? That was torture. You actually tortured him


That is simple. Fear, combined with toxic shame, and hoping that her gaslighting would be enough for him to not dig any deeper. She knew what he would find would be detrimental to the marriage.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Marduk

sapientia said:


> Marduk - I typically enjoy your to-the-point posts, however, you are supplying truisms that are, for people who have experienced her kind of abuse, not trivial to overcome. That said, it can be done, yes. But as hurtful as these people can be to others, it fundamentally comes from a place of being highly damaged.
> 
> So. How do you motivate someone who hasn't had the positive reinforcement you have perhaps learned? What specific steps do you recommend to get her on the path?
> 
> Said differently, "easier said than done". There is an entire literature on learned helplessness that explains just how difficult this can be for some. Again, not an excuse to not act, but for many this is a wide, terrifying river crossing for a non-swimmer, not a simple jump of a puddle.


Oh, I don't think it's easy. I think it's the hardest job imaginable.

But I don't think there's going to be a single, galvinating cathartic moment to fuel that change. It is going to be tough, messy, and full of setbacks.

Because nothing truly good in life is easy.

Sometimes, you just have to do the work. 

But the longer you fool around with rationalizations, easy answers, guilt, or feeling sorry for yourself... The further you get from your goal.

If you have guilt, use it. If you have anger, use it. If you're sorry for yourself, use it.

Otherwise, it's just a massive distraction and waste of energy. And she has precious little to spare for her journey ahead.


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## donny64

farsidejunky said:


> That is simple. Fear, combined with toxic shame, and hoping that her gaslighting would be enough for him to not dig any deeper. She knew what he would find would be detrimental to the marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


And there it is. People don't act within their normal parameters and thought processes when they are on drugs (dopamine). When addicted over a period of time, people can do and say some truly horrible sh!t to those they truly do love just to keep their habit hidden and to keep the high going and dopamine flowing. The more you have it, the more you need it to keep from falling into the abyss of withdrawl.

Affairs are truly like crack. Once you get that first rush, you want to keep chasing it, despite every fiber of your being telling you that you know it is wrong, where it will likely lead, are aware of the potential to destroy lives, and the nearly always inevitable pain the behavior will bring. Trick is not taking that first hit on the crack pipe.


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## Iver

I'd agree a chronological account would be helpful. 

I'd also want to know if you were aware of how reckless you were? Texting & emailing the OM in front of your husband was quite risky. You were very concerned about not getting caught in the email thread we saw but later your behavior seemed to be the opposite.

Did you ever consider running off with the OM? Any point did you see this as more than just a fling? I wonder if you realized you were slumming and just didn't care or if you thought this was more?


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## *Deidre*

Sometimes, the best apology Wishes, is to let someone go ...to be free...to let him/her heal. To keep trying to get your ex back is a bit selfish, in my eyes. Because I can't help but think, your 'new life' is a lot harder than it was with your ex...and he probably knows that, also. Do you really want your HUSBAND back, or your lifestyle back? I understand you're hurting, but these are honest questions to ask yourself before you continue in your heart and mind, to foster fantasies of 'what might have been' ...


----------



## tech-novelist

Wishes said:


> Very difficult. Very, very.
> I was raised in an abusive household. My father was verbally, physically and emotionally abusive.
> I did not dare open my mouth because it would give him an opportunity to scream obscenities and tell me how stupid I was.
> I had two brothers that were just like him.
> The crowd that hung around the house were just like them.
> I stayed in my room all the time. I had nothing in common with any of them. To this day, most people that knew my family growing up would tell you that they did not know my parents had a daughter or that my brothers had a sister.


Does your husband know this?


----------



## metallicaluvr

tech-novelist said:


> Does your husband know this?


 yes. Read his thread on SI

Apparentky because of her bad relationship with her dad, she would get upset if DG so much as raised his voice. So he always spoke to her in a calm tone. Always.


----------



## tech-novelist

metallicaluvr said:


> yes. Read his thread on SI
> 
> Apparentky because of her bad relationship with her dad, she would get upset if DG so much as raised his voice. So he always spoke to her in a calm tone. Always.


Thanks. I don't read SI, so I appreciate the information.


----------



## G.J.

YES SO WOULD I but Wish's seems reluctant to give us a full unabridged account so we could see the FULL story from her perspective

Now why do you think that is


----------



## eric1

I'd give her a break. She said she was heading home from work, and the effort at a complete timeline is understandably significant.


----------



## G.J.

eric1 said:


> I'd give her a break. She said she was heading home from work, and the effort at a complete timeline is understandably significant.


Of course it is Eric

Its just that because of the noise perhaps

1.Missed it 3 times

2.Relutant to type an unabridged perspective of *the complete story*

3.Conspiracy version..could the same person write two versions ?

4.A.N.Other


----------



## 2asdf2

G.J. said:


> Of course it is Eric
> 
> Its just that because of the noise perhaps
> 
> 1.Missed it 3 times
> 
> 2.Relutant to type an unabridged perspective of *the complete story*
> 
> 3.Conspiracy version..could the same person write two versions ?
> 
> 4.A.N.Other


After the schitstorm that broke out, it is to her credit that she is posting at all. I know that she got our usual reception, but she may not have been prepared for what happened. 

The discovery of the SI thread and the immigration of posters from SI did not make her task any easier.

She was posting from work. That may be her only web access point.

Give her another day or two to find her feet.


----------



## Fitnessfan

G.J. said:


> YES SO WOULD I but Wish's seems reluctant to give us a full unabridged account so we could see the FULL story from her perspective
> 
> Now why do you think that is


Oh good lord, you need to relax. You have a lot of demands.


----------



## G.J.

Fitnessfan said:


> Oh good lord, you need to relax. You have a lot of demands.


Sorry?

If I was any more relaxed id be asleep...now don't get up tight wait like the rest

You get up the wrong side of the bed?

May I suggest engaging with Tony Horton for 45 mins to work excess tension


----------



## bandit.45

marduk said:


> OK. So in some way your affair and subsequent behaviour towards your husband was in some ways validating what you were told as a child?


Toxic shame?


----------



## bandit.45

alte Dame said:


> This is killing all of us, it's so sad. Honestly.
> 
> My reaction at the moment is that you, Wishes, have felt throughout your marriage like you couldn't quite believe your good fortune, that a man like your husband loved and honored you the way he did. Your background programmed you to expect a match with a lowdown type of man.
> 
> Your marriage was wonderful, your kids are wonderful, but you always felt a bit like it wasn't real. You felt a distance because you didn't really deserve it or fit within it.
> 
> You spend years subconsciously waiting for the ax to fall. It never does, because your H and kids love you and are well-adjusted. So, you self-sabotage; you bring on for yourself what your crummy self-image has told you you deserve.
> 
> The problem is that you don't really want that result. You really don't want the ax to fall. It's like one part of your psyche that you know is there, but you've been able to master over the years. The OM represents the comfort of that lowdown expectation. At the same time he horrifies you.
> 
> I don't know if this sounds familiar to you or not. You just strike a few chords with me in this regard.
> 
> Now that you are posting in a more 'normal' way, with the fervor died down, I might suggest that you ask that this be moved to Private. Your XH requested that you leave the forum. In the Private section, your posts won't be visible to everyone.


She had to pop the bubble before it burst on its own.....


----------



## bandit.45

This thread once again reinforces my thought that child abusers need to be prosecuted to the same extent that hard criminals are, and then they need to be sent to institutions where they can be reprogrammed a la Clockwork Orange. 

I fvcking detest people who abuse helpless children.


----------



## MattMatt

sapientia said:


> This^ simply doesn't follow. She is unlikely to win back her ex regardless of what she does or doesn't do on TAM.
> 
> She doesn't owe anyone here a demonstration of "true remorse and understanding". Her journey is her own.


But if she does (as other former waywards have done) it will show she has become aware of what went wrong and can hopefully learn from the collective wisdom at TAM.


----------



## person123

Wishes, my kudos for staying on this forum despite some pretty harsh posts. You should understand that many of the worst posts are not about you but rather the posters and their WSs.

I do hope you can build a good life. It will be harder, since at age 45, it's difficult starting all over again, and you will have to settle for someone who's not the QB of the football team who treats you like a princess. Indeed, there are very few of those, other than your husband and Spaceghost0007, so I think you need to set your expectations.

I've read your husband's post, and he sounds like someone who NEEDS someone who's unsullied. There are just some men like that. It doesn't mean he's bad or weak, it just means that he can't get over the affair.

But you sound intelligent, resilient, quick witted, and... even cunning. So I think you'll do well. Best wishes.


----------



## G.J.

person123 said:


> But you sound intelligent, resilient, quick witted, and...* even cunning.* So I think you'll do well. Best wishes.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Wishes said:


> He's tried. Took out RO. He is a *clown* and pitiful excuse for a human being.











And there it is...:smile2:

If you stop feeding them, they'll eventually go away...


----------



## G.J.

Do we really pay for them to entertain our kids :surprise:


----------



## bandit.45

Clowns....I hate clowns....


----------



## volley

I was on the receiving end of my xh affair and many things ring a bell including the ridiculous amounts of text messages, underground cell phones, and getting torn down by my x. I am 3 years after the fact and almost 1 year from our divorce and I will never be the same. I can imagine how your xh feels and it is the worst feeling that anyone can ever feel and it improves but not sure it ever goes away (scarring). I still have bad days and I am in a relationship currently. My recommendation to you would be to focus on yourself and move forward. Let your xh heal!


----------



## bfree

bandit.45 said:


> This thread once again reinforces my thought that child abusers need to be prosecuted to the same extent that hard criminals are, and then they need to be sent to institutions where they can be reprogrammed a la Clockwork Orange.
> 
> I fvcking detest people who abuse helpless children.


Amen. There's a special circle of hell that awaits child abusers.


----------



## bfree

bandit.45 said:


> Clowns....I hate clowns....


Me too. Especially the ones that smell like cheese.


----------



## farsidejunky

bfree said:


> Me too. Especially the ones that smell like cheese.


Eh, what?!?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## someonesome

tech-novelist said:


> Does your husband know this?


Your question is addressed to Wishes but I hope it's ok for me to jump in: DG said relatively early in his thread on SI -March 2015, nearly a year before Wishes began her thread here- that she had suffered abuse:



> She was verbally abused by her father while growing up and made to feel like she could never please him or never do anything good enough. She brought that into our marriage and was always seeking to please me without any concerns for herself. I could give you a hundred examples. The word that comes to mind is selfless.


 (March 27, 2015)

It's worth noting that he wrote this when the wound was raw and he was extremely upset with her. Despite that, he wanted to point out this vulnerability in her.

I could be wrong, but I also felt that this abuse had something to do with the concern he expressed when he learned she was posting on other sites (he said that "she is not a strong person" and that "she will be eaten alive" on a site such as this).

Incidentally, I hope he is relieved to see that she has demonstrated a lot of strength, esp today.


----------



## someonesome

alte Dame said:


> This is killing all of us, it's so sad. Honestly.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Your marriage was wonderful, your kids are wonderful, but you always felt a bit like it wasn't real. You felt a distance because you didn't really deserve it or fit within it.
> 
> You spend years subconsciously waiting for the ax to fall. It never does, because your H and kids love you and are well-adjusted. So, you self-sabotage; you bring on for yourself what your crummy self-image has told you you deserve.
> 
> The problem is that you don't really want that result. You really don't want the ax to fall. It's like one part of your psyche that you know is there, but you've been able to master over the years. The OM represents the comfort of that lowdown expectation. At the same time he horrifies you.
> 
> I don't know if this sounds familiar to you or not. You just strike a few chords with me in this regard.
> [...]



I think this post is excellent and spot on. Wishes & DG kept coming to mind yesterday while I was reading a discussion on SI of self-sabotage resulting in cheating. 

What follows might be too long, psychobabbly, speculative, rambling and convoluted thinking-aloud: this surely will bother quite a few people, to whom I apologize: they might want to stop reading now.

As I just posted, a year ago, DG mentioned the abuse Wishes had suffered as a child. Later, he also mentioned a pile-up of tragedies in her life just before the affair began: the tragedy of losing both parents in a short period of time (my sincere condolences, Wishes; this pain is so hard to overcome. And a speculation: it's possible your father's death left many issues unresolved, since he was the primary abuser). There also was the cancer diagnosis (Wishes, if you are reading this: we haven't heard more about this since DG mentioned it; I truly hope you have come through that ok- I wish you health and freedom from worry). 

Given her 25 year long happy and fulfilling history with DG (to which both have attested separately and multiple times), it's incomprehensible why she should so abruptly risk so much for so little- It's hard to imagine that a person should metamorphosize overnight from kindness, generosity, decency to hurtfulness and destructiveness. I can think of only two possible explanations: A) there were indications earlier, but for one reason or another they escaped notice; in other words, the pattern of destruction is not new, just more visible now; or B) the pattern is a once-only response to extraordinary new triggers, which in turn reactivated traumas from the past. B to my mind suggests that if those childhood traumas & triggers are addressed appropriately, the self-sabotaging behavior (such as the affair) will not be repeated. And the others it hurt will be safe from such hurt in future.

I think Explanation A is unlikely: I'm pretty sure DG, the kids, and others would have had at least an inkling if Wishes had been narcissistic, entitled, selfish, sneaky, more loving of herself over others, and so on- the usual motivators cited for cheaters. But even retrospectively -after he learned of the affair- DG did not see a pattern of narcissism/entitlement etc in those 25 years. He has steadfastly maintained that she was a wonderful wife and mother before the affair. Therefore it's not a case of bad behavior hiding for 25 years only to bubble up without notice. 

More likely by far IMO is Explanation B)- childhood trauma erupting into the present b/c of new triggers. The trauma they reactivated was earlier abuse; she responded with self-sabotaging, having internalized that abuse at a very vulnerable period of her life, her childhood. FF to the present: she has a wonderful marriage, a joyful life; she has relished both until very recently. But now she is triggered back into feelings of unworthiness. So consciously or unconsciously she sets out to destroy both the good marriage and the good life. Gaslighting, dragging their daughters in at one point, and of course participating in that text/email exchange...all of these are indefensible behaviors, but to my mind they are also, consciously or unconsciously, forms of self-abasement, self-sabotage, excessive risk taking, that more or less guarantee disastrous consequences. The choice of a particularly revolting OM is significant- it shows self-abasement rather than self-indulgence.

At any rate, here are some follow-up questions if the self-sabotaging theory is true: To start with, Wishes, if you are reading this, has the question of self-sabotaging come up in your counseling? Do you think it should? Will it help to think about any earlier instances of it in your life- maybe milder, less damaging ones, but still following the broad pattern that emerged recently? Do you still have a tendency to set yourself up for failure- & sabotage yourself by thinking you aren't deserving of happiness? Second, is the IC that you are seeing now the same IC-turned-MC who was advising you (and DG briefly) some months ago? If so, do you now think that DG's reservations about this person were justified? From your opening post, it seems as though the IC and you have been working together for a while & made some breakthroughs, but even so, consider seeking deeper expertise & specialization now-- by going to a clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist specializing in childhood trauma- rather than a counselor. 

Wherever your lives take you, I wish you and DG and your family the very best always.


----------



## Wishes

*G.J.*



> But you sound intelligent, resilient, quick witted, and... *even cunning.* So I think you'll do well. Best wishes.


"Ah, if only you had known me better, you would have found greater fault still!"


----------



## G.J.

Wishes said:


> *G.J.*
> 
> 
> 
> "Ah, if only you had known me better, you would have found greater fault still!"


I dont know you..wasn't my original, i only quoted

Hows the FULL perspective from your side going.. ?


----------



## Wishes

volley said:


> I was on the receiving end of my xh affair and many things ring a bell including the ridiculous amounts of text messages, underground cell phones, and getting torn down by my x. I am 3 years after the fact and almost 1 year from our divorce and I will never be the same. I can imagine how your xh feels and it is the worst feeling that anyone can ever feel and it improves but not sure it ever goes away (scarring). I still have bad days and I am in a relationship currently. My recommendation to you would be to focus on yourself and move forward. Let your xh heal!


Volley, I am sorry for your pain. I know that it means nothing to hear me say that. I only wish to convey that my apology comes from the deepest recesses of my being. I also understand this probably means little or nothing to you. You ask me to allow my husband to heal? I can only assure you that directly, as well as indirectly, I am participating much in my husbands healing. I am not complaining, just stating a truth. As per focusing on myself, that will come.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wishes said:


> Volley, I am sorry for your pain. I know that it means nothing to hear me say that. I only wish to convey that my apology comes from the deepest recesses of my being. I also understand this probably means little or nothing to you. You ask me to allow my husband to heal? I can only assure you that directly, as well as indirectly, *I am participating much in my husbands healing*. I am not complaining, just stating a truth. As per focusing on myself, that will come.


Can you expand on that?


----------



## G.J.

Blossom Leigh said:


> Can you expand on that?


hehehe

yea its little bits ...feeding time

If I was a skeptical person I could say its drip fed to allow her to show she's a nice soul at heart but her past well you know 

and you never know hubby may be watching as he has a heart

But as I'm not I wont say that

I'm out


----------



## NoChoice

person123 said:


> But you sound intelligent, resilient, quick witted, and... even cunning. So I think you'll do well. Best wishes.


OP,
I would not use the adjectives above to describe you. I would be more likely to use words such as entitled, selfish, insecure and actually lacking in cognitive ability.

Many have referenced your childhood and I understand the effects of an abusive childhood but only if your mind remains in that childish state. As we mature, our thoughts should evolve into more rational and reasoned forms.

Use your H as an example, he was shown poor parenting skills as well but, once he matured, he saw those examples as being ones to avoid, not emulate. So, had you matured as well, you would have arrived at the same conclusion as did your H.

Your mind is, however, stuck in adolescence and as such you were not capable of the responses necessary to stop what you did before it even started. Chief among those traits is empathy, the ability to formulate and conceptualize the effects of your behavior on your H and others

Empathy requires a fair amount of cognitive ability and that is the reason that many people do not have any. In order to be empathetic you must be able to take an action, project a future from it, extrapolate possible outcomes based on probability, analyze the resultant data and then have enough understanding of your H to determine, with the highest probability, what his reaction will be to it AND be able to experience the resultant pain that he would feel and why.

You do not seem capable of this and it is for that reason that I believe you should make every effort to grow up. Your H has actually contributed to this by not understanding your level of immaturity and subsequently his treatment of you. He believed he was making life easier on you and giving the children the benefit of having their mother at home during their formative years.

In so doing, he made your life easier and easy requires little adaptation and therefore little growth. Your life will now become more difficult and as such you may experience some of the hardships necessary to mature. I sincerely hope this is the case for your sake.

As for your H, I would be very surprised if he wanted any further interaction with you going forward because of the depth of the depravity you exhibited. In my view, what you did to your marriage was not an act of justifiable homicide nor was it even involuntary manslaughter, what you displayed was cold blooded premeditated murder.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wishes, do you care to become non destructive in the future to yourself and others or are you here to play?

I was invited into this thread to *for* you and to help you, but if you are not going to engage, I'm not wasting my time. There are too many other people willing to open up to help. 

I won't hang around for games.


----------



## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> Volley, I am sorry for your pain. I know that it means nothing to hear me say that. I only wish to convey that my apology comes from the deepest recesses of my being. I also understand this probably means little or nothing to you. You ask me to allow my husband to heal? I can only assure you that directly, as well as indirectly, I am participating much in my husbands healing. I am not complaining, just stating a truth. As per focusing on myself, that will come.


From what I read at SI, it sounds like your ex-boyfriend's wife is participating in your ex-husband's healing too...or is she out of the picture?


----------



## ConanHub

bandit.45 said:


> From what I read at SI, it sounds like your ex-boyfriend's wife is participating in your ex-husband's healing too...or is she out of the picture?


This might be true but ouch dude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wmn1

my curiosity is if Wishes has a gameplan at this stage or not... and also ob Blossom's question. How is she helping XH ? That's not a trap question but an honest one


----------



## bandit.45

ConanHub said:


> This might be true but ouch dude.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well first they are together, then they are not, then they are....

She's either divorced and making her own way in life or exBH is still having romantic interactions with her. I just want to know which it is.


----------



## michzz

I had a first wife who did the mind-effing techniques:


Denied the obvious cheating, and how dare you for thinking I am.

Tried to up her reputation by telling her girlfriends, people i socialized with too, that I was cheating, not her!

Stink talked to our kids about how awful i was being to her, angry all the time (without cause, right? No mention of her extended crappy behavior as as the root of my agitation).

Would disappear for hours at a time and then say she was shopping, exercising, etc. Come home, exercise clothes clean, no purchases made. No accountability for time.

Was a full-time realtor during the real estate boom in SF Bay Area, stopped getting deals to complete. Why? Many excuses, except for the real reason: off screwing her BF instead of working. When asked to get a real job, she resisted and never did. it would have cut into play time.

Only after the divorce was in play did she begrudgingly admit to some of it, but still had excuses for them.

The kind of introspection and honesty needed to grow as a person, she completely skipped over. Instead, she moved far away and gets to construct a fantasy life as her "life" story.

The price of it? Hardly any contact with our kids, social isolation from people she used to care about. No employment. But pluses? Sure, thinks she is a good person, an energy healer (whatever that is), loads of free time. She gets to be in this extended childhood of no responsibilities. If she were a man we'd call her leeching bum. But since she is a woman, she can act like she was a stay at home wife who made a "mistake".

I hope the OP takes heart from this list I just made and avoids such behaviors.


----------



## MarriedTex

I don't think I ever saw whether Wishes confirmed that DoneGone was, indeed, her husband. Is the DoneGone posting indeed your XH. If so, do you think it was a fair portrayal of the relationship?


----------



## blahfridge

Wishes said:


> Volley, I am sorry for your pain. I know that it means nothing to hear me say that. I only wish to convey that my apology comes from the deepest recesses of my being. I also understand this probably means little or nothing to you. You ask me to allow my husband to heal? I can only assure you that directly, as well as indirectly, I am participating much in my husbands healing. I am not complaining, just stating a truth. *As per focusing on myself, that will come.*


Hi Wishes, 

I've read enough of your thread to find this last line troubling. I would argue that in order for your H to heal, you need to focus on YOURSELF. There is nothing you can do at this point to convince him to return to you. All your words are empty. The only thing that might change his decision, which I do not think you can count on, is for him to see that you have taken real steps to change yourself. Focus on yourself, try to unravel the reasons why you behaved the way you did and made the choices that destroyed your marriage. 
In the end, we can only change ourselves anyhow, and even that is extremely unlikely. Focusing on your H may make you feel better, but it won't fix the problem, which is you.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Augusto

bandit.45 said:


> Meh....
> 
> We've seen far worse than this.


Agreed....I would have killed to have only this kind of message to read than the one where she totally wanted to leave me. This is just sex nothing more. 7 inches?! LOL


----------



## Augusto

I hate to say this for the OP.....but He's probably going to date soon if not already started. He is going to want what he had and XW will be replaced very soon. OP should be ready to live with her children having a step mother no matter what. And it doesn't matter their age. I still chuckle at the 7 inch thing and cannot believe he was bragging. 80% of BS's are larger. The guy was acting like he was some kind of gigolo and then shoots off with 7 inches. Talk about a story building up and not having a climax(no pun intended).


----------



## Iver

I'd like to see a full recap of Wishes involvement with the OM; starting at the meeting at her mothers funeral. I believe that's where it started? (Can't help but think of the movie "Wedding Crashers" The PUA (pick up artist) Guru, played by Will Ferrell tells them funerals are where the action is...)

How did this escalate to the point the OM was calling Wishes his girlfriend when he was wigging out over hubby interrupting lunch? 

And especially Wishes over and over insists she can't risk her husband being suspicious in any way. From that to having her husband question her over her constant texting the OM which she pushes back strongly to easily getting caught sexting the guy* . 

I wonder why from just a sense of self preservation you didn't shut it down or at least take it underground when your husband starting getting upset over it? Self sabotaging? 

Where there any recreational drugs in play here as well? Cocaine or ecstasy, weed? (Don't tell me the OM isn't familiar with all this.) Who was paying for the motels if the OM is jobless? Or where you at his / your house? 


* I urge you to not consider a life of crime. Don't think you are cut out for it.


----------



## sapientia

marduk said:


> Oh, I don't* think *it's easy. I *think* it's the hardest job imaginable.


More of the same Nike trope, Just Do It.

You think. But do you KNOW?

World of difference. Explaining to a fish how to ride a bicycle.


----------



## sapientia

Wishes said:


> Volley, I am sorry for your pain. I know that it means nothing to hear me say that. I only wish to convey that my apology comes from the deepest recesses of my being. I also understand this probably means little or nothing to you. You ask me to allow my husband to heal? I can only assure you that directly, as well as indirectly, I am participating much in my husbands healing. I am not complaining, just stating a truth. As per focusing on myself, that will come.


Focussing on other peoples pain and story just acts as a barrier to focussing on solving your own issues. Don't fall into this trap. Clean up the sh!t in your own backyard before tackling anyone elses.


----------



## sapientia

MattMatt said:


> But if she does (as other former waywards have done) it will show she has become aware of what went wrong and can hopefully learn from the collective wisdom at TAM.


In a more generally supportive, less mob-mentality, rabid environment I might agree. Some posters on this site are a$$holes who post things they would never say to someone's face.

Agree to disagree, Matt.


----------



## MattMatt

sapientia said:


> In a more generally supportive, less mob-mentality, rabid environment I might agree. Some posters on this site are a$$holes who post things they would never say to someone's face.
> 
> Agree to disagree, Matt.


That's what the report button is for.


----------



## adriana

Augusto said:


> I still chuckle at the 7 inch thing and cannot believe he was bragging. *80% of BS's are larger.* The guy was acting like he was some kind of gigolo and then shoots off with 7 inches.



:surprise::surprise::surprise: Augusto, just out of curiosity.... what color is the sky in your world?


----------



## farsidejunky

One and done?


----------



## Vulcan2013

Resistance said:


> At the end of the day - you are the prototypical cheating woman:
> 
> Liberal/Left Wing in ideology/world view
> White in racial makeup
> Feminist either rabid or mellow
> 
> The vast majority of female cheaters fit into this archetype. Not all. There always exist exceptions to rules.
> 
> But if you were building a profile of a Female cheater from the ground up, that's the profile you would end with.
> 
> White, Liberal, with Feminist leanings.
> 
> It's why the one bit of advice I can give any White guy who's been betrayed by a White female - move on from them. The vast majority of them are low class anyway. Your chance of ending up with a good one is extremely low.
> 
> Muslim women, non-Westernized Asian women are the top echelon of females.
> 
> If I could speak with your husband - it's what I'd tell him. More than likely though, as White men are rather stupid when it comes to navigating the new landscape of womankind (Many still think White females are as they were in the 40s and 50s - wholesome) - he'll end up with any White woman who does the same, or he'll end up with you in which case you'll snap his heart into more than a million pieces.
> 
> Leave him alone.


TAM often posts "helpful" ads for Asian mail order brides for guys like you.


----------



## Vulcan2013

OP, I hope the interaction is becoming helpful to you. Given your background, I think I understand your responses as this unfolded. I have massive FOO (family of origin) issues myself. Can you work past your own (protective) delusions to face everything you've done? I've had a close friend call me out before on caring more about being perceived as a good person, rather than being a good person. There's a big difference. 

To everyone else: stop referencing the SI at thread! It is harmful at this point @Wishes, when you hit 30 posts, you can request this be moved to the private sub thread. 

I'll note, I'm a wayward, and I haven't had issues posting here. Mostly, I think, because I haven't made excuses, justified, or otherwise not owned my sh!t.


----------



## Evinrude58

MattMatt said:


> That's what the report button is for.





Resistance said:


> At the end of the day - you are the prototypical cheating woman:
> 
> Liberal/Left Wing in ideology/world view
> White in racial makeup
> Feminist either rabid or mellow
> 
> The vast majority of female cheaters fit into this archetype. Not all. There always exist exceptions to rules.
> 
> But if you were building a profile of a Female cheater from the ground up, that's the profile you would end with.
> 
> White, Liberal, with Feminist leanings.
> 
> It's why the one bit of advice I can give any White guy who's been betrayed by a White female - move on from them. The vast majority of them are low class anyway. Your chance of ending up with a good one is extremely low.
> 
> Muslim women, non-Westernized Asian women are the top echelon of females.
> 
> If I could speak with your husband - it's what I'd tell him. More than likely though, as White men are rather stupid when it comes to navigating the new landscape of womankind (Many still think White females are as they were in the 40s and 50s - wholesome) - he'll end up with any White woman who does the same, or he'll end up with you in which case you'll snap his heart into more than a million pieces.
> 
> Leave him alone.


Cough cough bullsh**....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Evinrude58 said:


> Cough cough bullsh**....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is BS? The TAM rule about using the report button?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58

Not that one, the white women are mostly *****s diatribe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Evinrude58 said:


> Not that one, the white women are mostly *****s diatribe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, I see! You confused me! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## someonesome

Vulcan2013 said:


> TAM often posts "helpful" ads for Asian mail order brides for guys like you.


good one 

- otoh why wish that fate on ANY woman - Asian or otherwise?


----------



## someonesome

Vulcan2013 said:


> To everyone else: stop referencing the SI at thread! It is harmful at this point @*Wishes*, when you hit 30 posts, you can request this be moved to the private sub thread.
> 
> .


I liked your entire post, but am quoting just the parts I wanted to address. Thanks- I appreciate your point about referencing the thread.

In my two posts about Wishes' situation, I did reference & even quote from the other thread. I had plenty of qualms before doing it, though, and am still second-guessing myself. I wish the threads had never been linked. But once they had, I felt that what he actually had said was being so dramatically misrepresented here that something needed to be said. So some of my references had to do with that: genie already out of the bottle.

But I was planning to edit out those refs & maybe take down the posts if/when the tone of the discussion changed. After reading your post, Vulcan, I might do this sooner rather than later. 

About the option of going private: as a newbie here, I don't know what exactly that entails but it sounds promising. I hope Wishes considers it.


----------



## Tron

Resistance said:


> At the end of the day - you are the prototypical cheating woman:
> 
> Liberal/Left Wing in ideology/world view
> White in racial makeup
> Feminist either rabid or mellow
> 
> The vast majority of female cheaters fit into this archetype. Not all. There always exist exceptions to rules.
> 
> But if you were building a profile of a Female cheater from the ground up, that's the profile you would end with.
> 
> White, Liberal, with Feminist leanings.
> 
> It's why the one bit of advice I can give any White guy who's been betrayed by a White female - move on from them. The vast majority of them are low class anyway. Your chance of ending up with a good one is extremely low.
> 
> Muslim women, non-Westernized Asian women are the top echelon of females.


What a load of tripe. 

You obviously haven't been on TAM very long.


----------



## bandit.45

Resistance said:


> At the end of the day - you are the prototypical cheating woman:
> 
> Liberal/Left Wing in ideology/world view
> White in racial makeup
> Feminist either rabid or mellow
> 
> The vast majority of female cheaters fit into this archetype. Not all. There always exist exceptions to rules.
> 
> But if you were building a profile of a Female cheater from the ground up, that's the profile you would end with.
> 
> White, Liberal, with Feminist leanings.
> 
> It's why the one bit of advice I can give any White guy who's been betrayed by a White female - move on from them. The vast majority of them are low class anyway. Your chance of ending up with a good one is extremely low.
> 
> Muslim women, non-Westernized Asian women are the top echelon of females.
> 
> If I could speak with your husband - it's what I'd tell him. More than likely though, as White men are rather stupid when it comes to navigating the new landscape of womankind (Many still think White females are as they were in the 40s and 50s - wholesome) - he'll end up with any White woman who does the same, or he'll end up with you in which case you'll snap his heart into more than a million pieces.
> 
> Leave him alone.


I agree with some of this but most I don't. 

But the Asian part? Are you serious? I have two friends who are married to Asians: one A Korean and the other a Filippina. Both men loathe their wives. The Korean wife is a money-grubbing ice queen who shut her husband off from sex ten years ago. He's only staying in the marriage for the kids. 

The other guy has been cheated on three times by his Filippina wife. She even ran off to the Phillippines for a year with their kids after he caught her the first time. She is a bonafide bimbo of the lowest order. That guy is also waiting for the kids to leave home and then he's giving her the boot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, is it just me or are these last two comments bordering on flirtatious?
> 
> It's becoming clearer and clearer how Wishes got caught up with her "bad boy from the wrong side of town" in the first place. These comments don't sound like they are coming from a mortified wife...


My spice racks went up without a hitch. Drilling tile was not that bad.

I'm not going to catch up here, just jump in. I happen to see this post.

Happy as a claim, I made this same observation to another member in a pm a while back with regards to her replies to bandit. 

It was creepy, but maybe she is just a bit protective with playfulness in personality who knows?

I'm still out  

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

Resistance said:


> Don't be so dramatic and insulting.


Huh...

Funny you should say that.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## froggy7777

I see absolutely nothing posted about any Spiritually. Did either you or your husband go to any church. Do you have any close friends that are real Christians that yo can go to and fellowship with? They should of course be women. With out going into a lot of detail; my life at one time was BAD. I have a wonderful and loving wife; but at times (many years ago ) treated her BAD and I mean BAD. It was only when I realized that there is more to life than just existing; having your own way and living for yourself. Until I gave my life completely over to the Lord Jesus Christ and asked Him to take control; I started to really live. You can as many people do; dismiss what I say; but you really don't know what life is, until you let him into your life and let him take complete control. Yes; I treat my wife now like the Queen she is and are marriage is strong and safe. We have over 55 years now and more in love than ever. I urge you to let Jesus into your life and you will never regret it. Will that get your X back, I can not say but it will give you a Peace that passes all understanding and in time if you have enough faith to believe and ask Him to help; its very possible to get your X back. Why not try it. I have seen many failed marriage restored because of people coming to the knowledge of Christ. He is the Son Of God.


----------



## dunce

resisance, if I didnt think you were pulling legs I'd reccomend psy help for you. remember this simple minds think in labels. see you you fit the bill


----------



## Marduk

sapientia said:


> More of the same Nike trope, Just Do It.
> 
> You think. But do you KNOW?
> 
> World of difference. Explaining to a fish how to ride a bicycle.


You only know by starting to do the work. I know of no shortcuts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Resistance said:


> If you frequent Infidelity related websites, you'll see a huge amount of Husbands whose Christian wives have cheated on them.
> 
> Western Christianity has become an immoral, sedentary, liberal cesspool full of sin and debauchery.
> 
> There is actually a quote and it goes like this:
> 
> "God save us from good Christian women".
> 
> There's actually one on the first page of that other site (SI).
> 
> I don't make this **** up.



I grew up in the Southern Baptist tradition, and the reason I am no longer a Baptist is because of the rampant hypocrisy I saw with my own eyes. When I was about twelve a Baptist church in another town went through a schism after the pastor slept with two wives of other men in his church. In my own church we had a deacon who was carried on a years long affair with the wife of another fellow churchgoer. When they got caught, instead of kicking his butt out, they let him stay on as a deacon and the jilted husband and his WW left the church and move away. It was all hushed up when it happened. I did not learn of this until I was in my twenties. By that time I had gotten so sick of all the shenanigans that I stopped going to church altogether. 

I'm a born-again Christian, I have my beliefs and I believe in God and Jesus, but I prefer to keep my own fellowship. I haven't been to church in years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

bandit.45 said:


> I grew up in the Southern Baptist tradition, and the reason I am no longer a Baptist is because of the rampant hypocrisy I saw with my own eyes. When I was about twelve a Baptist church in another town went through a schism after the pastor slept with two wives of other men in his church. In my own church we had a deacon who was carried on a years long affair with the wife of another fellow churchgoer. When they got caught, instead of kicking his butt out, they let him stay on as a deacon and the jilted husband and his WW left the church and move away. It was all hushed up when it happened. I did not learn of this until I was in my twenties. By that time I had gotten so sick of all the shenanigans that I stopped going to church altogether.
> 
> I'm a born-again Christian, I have my beliefs and I believe in God and Jesus, but I prefer to keep my own fellowship. I haven't been to church in years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would have had that deacon escorted out of my church.

Hearing things like this make me sad. It is no wonder people no longer see the church as a refuge anymore.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

So.... Any chance we can stop the racist stereotyping and get back to helping our WW poster Wishes who came here for help?


----------



## MattMatt

froggy7777 said:


> I see absolutely nothing posted about any Spiritually. Did either you or your husband go to any church. Do you have any close friends that are real Christians that yo can go to and fellowship with? They should of course be women. With out going into a lot of detail; my life at one time was BAD. I have a wonderful and loving wife; but at times (many years ago ) treated her BAD and I mean BAD. It was only when I realized that there is more to life than just existing; having your own way and living for yourself. Until I gave my life completely over to the Lord Jesus Christ and asked Him to take control; I started to really live. You can as many people do; dismiss what I say; but you really don't know what life is, until you let him into your life and let him take complete control. Yes; I treat my wife now like the Queen she is and are marriage is strong and safe. We have over 55 years now and more in love than ever. I urge you to let Jesus into your life and you will never regret it. Will that get your X back, I can not say but it will give you a Peace that passes all understanding and in time if you have enough faith to believe and ask Him to help; its very possible to get your X back. Why not try it. I have seen many failed marriage restored because of people coming to the knowledge of Christ. He is the Son Of God.


Yeah. Because this advice is great. Maybe not so great if you are a Jew, a Hindu, Sikh, etc?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Itwasjustafantasy

MattMatt said:


> Yeah. Because this advice is great. Maybe not so great if you are a Jew, a Hindu, Sikh, etc?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


...Humanist, agnostic, atheist.


----------



## lisamaree

Resistance said:


> Not pulling any legs. Everything I type I believe 100% and I've done research into it.
> 
> It's simply trends and statistical analysis put into a picture.


By "research" I'm guessing you mean Google. Can you cite an actual study? I won't hold my breath.


----------



## lisamaree

Hi Wishes,

You need to move on. You cannot force someone to heal from a deep betrayal. And it is unhealthy for you to continue false hope, because you need healing as well. Even *if* your x came to you to R, you are not in a healthy state of mind to deal with a relationship that now has rampant issues that need to be worked through day after day. Which is what your relationship with your x would be.

Continue your therapy. Plan for a life without your x. Heal as best as you can, with the expectation that no R with your x will ever happen. Focus on being a good mother and repairing your relationships with your children. Focus on building a good career for yourself. Focus on you, and building your own life-develop hobbies, develop an identity outside of being your x’s wife.

If your x comes back to you, be prepared. Your relationship will never be what it was before. The happy days you remember are history. Accept the memories as a gift… Your R relationship would be filled with the aftershock of deep betrayal and distrust. You may be disappointed if you expect your H to ever come back. This is what infidelity does.

You need to find out what caused you to do this. You can no longer say you don’t know why or how you did it. You cannot say that you don’t know what possessed you. That is very unsettling for a BS to hear. It means that you don’t understand the problem, hence it could happen again. How can you avoid something that you do not fully understand? Keep digging and get to the bottom of this before you begin a new relationship, or before you enter into any possible R with your ex (if ever possible).

I have a very similar childhood story, except I am a BS. I also have esteem issues, but instead of thinking I was undeserving of my H, I believed I was undeserving of a new life with an honest spouse. You need to heal from the abuse that you experienced in your childhood, and that will take a lot of time. You will be surprised how engrained abuse is in your mind. It will shock you to learn that many of the thoughts you have are a result of an abusive childhood, but I can tell from reading your posts that the abuse is quite imbedded in your mind. I am hoping that you can overcome this and move on to have a healthy life, with or without your X. *You do deserve to be happy.*


----------



## lisamaree

Resistance said:


> All kinds of research. I got into it while I was researching the rise and fall of civilizations as it pertains to modern Western Civilization. That led me down a road of social mores, changes, etc.
> 
> You're 27 and already complaining about your husband and sex. How long before you're in bed with another man?
> 
> You know it's true.
> 
> White Women in 2016 are incapable of monogamy.


I'm still waiting for an actual study.

Also I'll point out you don't even know what racial makeup I am (not white, by the way- nice try). Also, I'm not 27 and the sexual issues in my marriage are quite complex. You can read about that in my other threads, but I have a feeling you're too incompetent to read (which results in your highly ignorant and racist conclusions on an entire race of women, for example).


----------



## Red Sonja

sapientia said:


> Marduk - I typically enjoy your to-the-point posts, however, you are supplying truisms that are, for people who have experienced her kind of abuse, not trivial to overcome. That said, it can be done, yes. But as hurtful as these people can be to others, it fundamentally comes from a place of being highly damaged.
> 
> So. How do you motivate someone who hasn't had the positive reinforcement you have perhaps learned? What specific steps do you recommend to get her on the path?


I had a nightmare of a childhood and can tell you what I did to overcome the resulting feelings of worthlessness and toxic shame.

First, you have to realize what you feel (worthlessness, shame, etc.) and recognize at least one example in your life where these feelings caused you to make bad choices or forsake opportunities that would be to your benefit. At that epiphany you must have a burning desire to free yourself of this mess and seek help (therapy).

Second, in therapy you will learn to see your parents for the people that they actually are, you will learn the how and why of the wrong they did you and, learn that none of it was fair, deserved or even about you at all. You will learn to let go of the child’s inner yearning to have parents that loved and treated you well and, instead learn love and take care of yourself.

Third, and again in therapy, you will re-learn who you truly are without the impediment of your parents abuse.

@Wishes I strongly suggest that you do this.


----------



## bfree

Resistance said:


> All kinds of research. I got into it while I was researching the rise and fall of civilizations as it pertains to modern Western Civilization. That led me down a road of social mores, changes, etc.
> 
> You're 27 and already complaining about your husband and sex. How long before you're in bed with another man?
> 
> You know it's true.
> 
> White Women in 2016 are incapable of monogamy.


That's very interesting. I'll have to tell my wife about this. She's white. She's Christian. And she's always been faithful to me and our marriage. One question though, now that she's going to have to start dating and screwing other men what should I do with all that extra time? I mean up until now we've always spent our free time together. But I guess if it's inevitable that she won't be able to remain monogamous I should find myself a hobby right?


----------



## Evinrude58

I'm thinking that I had too few relationships before I married. I had never had a girl cheat on me. I didn't know how it felt. I'm thinking maybe early in one's development, if a person knows what infidelity feels like, they may be more inclined to avoid it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tech-novelist

Resistance said:


> At the end of the day - you are the prototypical cheating woman:
> 
> Liberal/Left Wing in ideology/world view
> White in racial makeup
> Feminist either rabid or mellow
> 
> The vast majority of female cheaters fit into this archetype. Not all. There always exist exceptions to rules.
> 
> But if you were building a profile of a Female cheater from the ground up, that's the profile you would end with.
> 
> White, Liberal, with Feminist leanings.
> 
> It's why the one bit of advice I can give any White guy who's been betrayed by a White female - move on from them. The vast majority of them are low class anyway. Your chance of ending up with a good one is extremely low.
> 
> Muslim women, non-Westernized Asian women are the top echelon of females.
> 
> If I could speak with your husband - it's what I'd tell him. More than likely though, as White men are rather stupid when it comes to navigating the new landscape of womankind (Many still think White females are as they were in the 40s and 50s - wholesome) - he'll end up with any White woman who does the same, or he'll end up with you in which case you'll snap his heart into more than a million pieces.
> 
> Leave him alone.


This is unacceptable thoughtcrime! Please report to your local reprogramming site immediately!


----------



## farsidejunky

lisamaree said:


> I'm still waiting for an actual study.
> 
> Also I'll point out you don't even know what racial makeup I am (not white, by the way- nice try). Also, I'm not 27 and the sexual issues in my marriage are quite complex. You can read about that in my other threads, but I have a feeling you're too incompetent to read (which results in your highly ignorant and racist conclusions on an entire race of women, for example).


Don't feed the trolls, Lisa.

It only emboldens them.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## just got it 55

Resistance said:


> All kinds of research. I got into it while I was researching the rise and fall of civilizations as it pertains to modern Western Civilization. That led me down a road of social mores, changes, etc.
> 
> You're 27 and already complaining about your husband and sex. How long before you're in bed with another man?
> 
> You know it's true.
> 
> White Women in 2016 are incapable of monogamy.


So are you implying Wishes is a victim of our society?

55


----------



## larry.gray

bandit.45 said:


> I grew up in the Southern Baptist tradition, and the reason I am no longer a Baptist is because of the rampant hypocrisy I saw with my own eyes. When I was about twelve a Baptist church in another town went through a schism after the pastor slept with two wives of other men in his church. In my own church we had a deacon who was carried on a years long affair with the wife of another fellow churchgoer. When they got caught, instead of kicking his butt out, they let him stay on as a deacon and the jilted husband and his WW left the church and move away. It was all hushed up when it happened. I did not learn of this until I was in my twenties. By that time I had gotten so sick of all the shenanigans that I stopped going to church altogether.
> 
> I'm a born-again Christian, I have my beliefs and I believe in God and Jesus, but I prefer to keep my own fellowship. I haven't been to church in years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You expect morality out of a church that exists solely because the baptist church came out against slavery and those in the south didn't like that stance?


----------



## marbou888

Graywolf2 said:


> As other have said I think your chances are low. To have any chance at all you need to make it very clear that you will take him back in a heartbeat. Don’t date other people even he does. You rejected him down to his core. Now he needs a chance to reject you.
> 
> Your kids will be a good bridge to him. Make no excuses with them, speak well of their father and let it be known that you have no desire to date. Don’t overdo it but dress nicely around him and your kids. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and time may help.
> 
> I remember a case (I think on this forum) where a happily married woman had an affair with a neighbor. She explained that it was like going to your favorite restaurant and always ordering your favorite dish (her husband). Then you find out that the restaurant is closing (she was around 40) and you never had ordered any of their other dishes that looked great (other men).
> 
> She got caught, she quit her job and her husband paid for an apartment for her. Her kids, especially her young daughter, hated her. This went on for two years. She just remained sorry with no excuses and her husband came around. He was a good family guy and I think he wanted familiar sex. She started looking good to him again and was a sure thing.


You are talking about Houston dad on SI


----------



## bandit.45

larry.gray said:


> You expect morality out of a church that exists solely because the baptist church came out against slavery and those in the south didn't like that stance?


Well they never taught us the history of the Baptists. Best to let sleeping dogs lie. I don't consider myself a Baptist anymore by the way. 

But tell me, why are you down on them Larry?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lisamaree

farsidejunky said:


> Don't feed the trolls, Lisa.
> 
> It only emboldens them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Be smart

Nice to read that you are trying to help your ex-husband in his healing procces. 

Dont forget about yourself. I am going to say this again,you never know what will happen in the future and maybe in a year you start dating him again.

To have this hope you need to show him and people around you (your kids and family) that you are changed,and it is for better. You need to ask yourself a question "why" you did all those things and make sure they never happen again.

Stay strong my Lady.


----------



## just got it 55

Resistance said:


> I doubt their exists a scientific study out there re: infidelity that would be believed by you unless it pointed to men cheating more, Lisa.
> 
> In sports we have what you call the 'Number Test', and the 'Eye Test'. The numbers might say one thing about a player, but when you watch him play the eye test will say another.
> 
> In the case of modern infidelity the numbers stay the following:
> 
> White Women have the highest infidelity rates of all women
> White Women have the highest amount of sex partners among all women
> White Women have the highest interracial sex rate of all women.
> 
> The Eye Test tells the same exact story.
> 
> If you want me to provide a scientific study - I'm sorry, that I cannot do. You are more than free to believe what you wish.
> 
> Given that you are a Female, none of this matters to you anyway. Unless you are lesbian or bisexual in which case you might have to avoid White Females.
> 
> And you are either White or Hispanic. My money is on White. Not sure why you won't own that.
> 
> Either way, going through your posting history a bit I can see what will happen in the future of your relationship.
> 
> You're going to cheat on your husband.


You Sir are bit out of line 

55


----------



## farsidejunky

Don't feed the trolls.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Evinrude58

Resistance said:


> Ultimately, each of us are responsible for our own actions. However, there does exist an external push for certain actions to be preformed by us. We call it 'Peer Pressure' when talking to our kids about their choices.
> 
> Western Society in the past 20 years has changed to become almost unrecognizable. These changes have largely been for the worse.
> 
> We have had a rapid decline in mores, values, and behavior.
> 
> Some of these changes have resulted in the following behaviors:
> 
> More Promiscuity among White Females
> More Infidelity among White Females
> More Mixing among White Females
> Declining birthrate among White Females
> More Narcissistic personality disorders among White Females
> More Entitlement among White Females
> 
> Now - we are focusing on a singular subject (The effect the decline in Western Civilization has had on White Women) but this has effected White Men, also.
> 
> White Men have become:
> 
> Weak
> Cowardly
> Feminized
> Unappealing
> Unattractive
> Needy
> 
> Most of these changes in behavior can be most often observed among the Liberal/Left Wing portion of the White/Caucasian peoples. The ones on the Conservative side/Right Wing spectrum have been resistant to it but not immune.
> 
> You know how cheaters typically go to therapists to find out their 'Whys' and it almost always comes back to FOO issues?
> 
> Same thing.


I kinda hate that I can't disagree with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Evinrude58 said:


> Resistance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, each of us are responsible for our own actions. However, there does exist an external push for certain actions to be preformed by us. We call it 'Peer Pressure' when talking to our kids about their choices.
> 
> Western Society in the past 20 years has changed to become almost unrecognizable. These changes have largely been for the worse.
> 
> We have had a rapid decline in mores, values, and behavior.
> 
> Some of these changes have resulted in the following behaviors:
> 
> More Promiscuity among White Females
> More Infidelity among White Females
> More Mixing among White Females
> Declining birthrate among White Females
> More Narcissistic personality disorders among White Females
> More Entitlement among White Females
> 
> Now - we are focusing on a singular subject (The effect the decline in Western Civilization has had on White Women) but this has effected White Men, also.
> 
> White Men have become:
> 
> Weak
> Cowardly
> Feminized
> Unappealing
> Unattractive
> Needy
> 
> Most of these changes in behavior can be most often observed among the Liberal/Left Wing portion of the White/Caucasian peoples. The ones on the Conservative side/Right Wing spectrum have been resistant to it but not immune.
> 
> You know how cheaters typically go to therapists to find out their 'Whys' and it almost always comes back to FOO issues?
> 
> Same thing.
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda hate that I can't disagree with this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

That's ok. No need to feel bad. Most of us can for you.

This is complete rubbish. The 1960s saw a huge change in sexual attitudes. That was 50 years ago - not 20. The 80s saw a rise in conservatism along with shaming and anti-gay, anti-feminism, anti-xxx subgroups. My brother talked of "young republicans" shouting out that God invented AIDS to kill off the "gays". Interestingly, the 80s were a hedonistic time for the conservatives who were awash in "deal" money and the "greed is good" mantra, freely available cocaine, freebasing, studio 54, etc. blah blah blah. My kids are NOW taught TOTAL ABSTINENCE in school from grade 1-12. I asked the program heads during a parent presentation what would happen if a kid asked a specific question about birth control, the actual statistical occurance if STDs due to oral sex, etc. Honest to God, they giggled and said "I hope they don't ask"! WTF

Anyone can weave whatever story they want about the liberalization of sex or the shaming of sex - liberal, conservative, progressive, communist, socialist, blah blah.

It's all complete BS. There are micro-trends and huge variation among highly stratified groups of individuals, and the movement between liberal and conservative patterns changes depending on environmental factors, and trends in other sub-populations.

Anyone thick-headed enough to make broad statements about "white women" monolithically behaving in a particular way "over the past 20 years" is probably only a fool.


----------



## bfree

farsidejunky said:


> Don't feed the trolls.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Oh but it's so much fun to watch them do tricks. Sit, stay, roll over, beg.....


----------



## bfree

Resistance said:


> I would say odds are very good she has already cheated on you either physically or emotionally and will most definitely step over that line in the future.
> 
> It all comes down to age and era. If you are both over 60 - you have a decent chance of escaping with no infidelity with a White Female (She was raised in a different era with better mores) if you are sub-60, then like I said - she's gonna be cheatin'.
> 
> And cheating and dating other men are different. You are describing a cuckold relationship - White wife dates other men; White husband allows it/gets off on it.
> 
> I wonder if it's a coincidence that cuckold porn is becoming the most popular among White Females and White Males?
> 
> Either way - Cheating is secretive. You won't know until you know.


Here's where your argument falls off the cliff. I really don't fit into your neat little categories and neither does my wife. I consider myself conservative but I'm actually libertarian in my views. I'm Christian but I tend to tilt at windmills when it comes to the organized church. I loathe the terms alpha, beta, etc. But if you were to meet me I suppose you'd say I trended toward the alpha end of the spectrum (not that I give a damn.) I respect women and I feel they are equal but not the same. My wife shares that viewpoint. So not only do I advocate equal pay, equal rights but I also demand women take equal responsibility. I was cheated on in my first marriage. I didn't handle it well and subsequently I have a maniacal need for honesty and openness with anyone I have a relationship with. After years of alcoholism, drug abuse, getting into fights and being with many women I found strength in God and with His grace I finally straightened myself out. But I've still got rough edges and I always will. My wife and I live a completely transparent life. I know every single thing she says and does and the same is true in reverse. We spend virtually all our free time together, not because we have to (codependency) but because we want to. We actively, together and individually, look for ways to keep our marriage strong and healthy because neither of us would consider staying in a relationship that didn't add to our happiness in life. I am committed to my wife and my marriage but will walk away if need be. My wife feels the same way. Is it possible she will cheat? Is it possible I will cheat? Sure. There is a possibility for anything to happen in life. But I would say the chances are greater that you and I will end up married before either my wife or I would sacrifice our honor and integrity by breaking our vows to each other and God.


----------



## ConanHub

NotMeNotThenNotNow said:


> With all due respect: Your marriage is not special. I don't mean that to be insulting or demeaning. What I'm saying is this: Infidelity doesn't come into your front door while your looking. It happens in the shadows, beneath your notice.
> 
> And with White women there's a sign outside the door their White husbands cannot see. That sign reads: 'I'm a married White woman, but that means nothing. I'm unhappy. Make me happy.'
> 
> Most White husbands have no clue their White wives are cheating on them. Most White Men go through life (until the big reveal) believing in the feminist lie that Women don't really cheat, but men do. Or that women who do cheat do so because the husband did something to make them. Maybe he wasn't attentive enough. Not romantic enough. Not big enough. Not sexual enough. Not attractive anymore. Didn't dote on her, etc. They still think their White wives have the mores, values and general relationship outlook that most White women (like their grandmothers or some of their mothers) had in the 50s.
> 
> Just like you do. You are so sure your marriage is infidelity proof. You have trust (blind trust?) in your current wife. You've been through the gauntlet before, been burned by the fire so you are thinking "Nope. Won't happen to me again. I'm going to make sure this time!". You build walls higher than the great wall of China. You set your boundaries and like Gandalf you stomp your feet and say "You shall not pass!".
> 
> All the while your wife is growing resentful. She's felling caged. And then it happens. She's unhappy.
> 
> Then you get complacent, slothy, even happy. You become that same old fool of a White man who takes for granted the lessons of reality on White women that you had tortured into you in your younger years. You start thinking your wife is too old to have that cheating mentality, it's not going to happen. Marriage is too good. Boundaries are too solid.
> 
> Wrong. I cannot tell you how many stories like yours I've heard. White men so sure of their wives, so trusting that the idea would make them chuckle and joke about it. Until it happens.
> 
> Like I said, maybe you are your wife are guided by mores established in the 50s that have been eviscerated in the mainstream since then. Maybe you look to the culture of the West back then for your lessons, cultural outlooks and values. If that's the case - then maybe you're right and you got a good White woman.
> 
> I'm saying - I doubt it. That time and era like I stated above has been eviscerated by the mainstream at the behest of feminists. 50's values are 'archaic', 'misogynistic', etc. I doubt a White woman of 2016 would look back at the time for guidance with all the propaganda and social-engineering unless she is of an age when she lived during that era.
> 
> And in this era, today? White Women cannot remain faithful of monogamous. If it isn't the co-worker, it's the neighbor. If it isn't the neighbor, it's an old boyfriend or friend on social media. If it isn't an old friend, it's a stranger at a club. If it isn't a stranger at a club, it's a stranger during a vacation.
> 
> You cannot expect fidelity/monogamy from a group that exudes
> these traits:
> 
> Highest Infidelity Dates
> Highest Promiscuity Rates
> Highest Mixing Rates
> Highest Divorce Rates
> 
> It's simply a zero game.
> 
> Anyway. I was banned. So this is the end of our conversation. I wish you well in the future. Truly.


His marriage is normal and healthy. Mine is too. Normal healthy people aren't dumbass enough to cheat.

I will say that the more freedom people have, more people will do wrong with that freedom. It doesn't make freedom an evil thing.

Being a slave, like the Muslim women you promote, is not attractive to a man like me. I actually have a woman who desires me with all her heart and free will.

Enjoy having sex with slaves. I'm sure they really appreciate your ownership of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

I am specifically talking about women in countries without equal rights or freedom.


----------



## lisamaree

I can agree that Westernized society has become less moral and takes marriage less seriously. But I cannot agree that this has anything to do primarily with white women alone, or even women alone. It has to do with a large majority of the population, and in my opinion is due to the high divorce rate in baby boomers (sorry guys). Marriage is not taken seriously in western society by a majority of people because our parents did not take it seriously. 

The reason I requested a study is because there are actual studies about this subject out there, that have found that it is actually black women and black men who are the least loyal to their marriages. But to be honest that is really moot because as I stated before - it is western society as a whole that has seen a decline in marriage and an increase in divorce and infidelity.

Some people will try to make a racial issue out of everything because their hatred towards another race encompasses their entire thought process. You are one of those people.


----------



## ConanHub

lisamaree said:


> I can agree that Westernized society has become less moral and takes marriage less seriously. But I cannot agree that this has anything to do primarily with white women alone, or even women alone. It has to do with a large majority of the population, and in my opinion is due to the high divorce rate in baby boomers (sorry guys). Marriage is not taken seriously in western society by a majority of people because our parents did not take it seriously.
> 
> The reason I requested a study is because there are actual studies about this subject out there, that have found that it is actually black women and black men who are the least loyal to their marriages. But to be honest that is really moot because as I stated before - it is western society as a whole that has seen a decline in marriage and an increase in divorce and infidelity.
> 
> Some people will try to make a racial issue out of everything because their hatred towards another race encompasses their entire thought process. You are one of those people.


Oh yeah! Well said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheTruthHurts

All I know is fidelity is rampant among all the white people I know


----------



## bfree

NotMeNotThenNotNow said:


> With all due respect: Your marriage is not special. I don't mean that to be insulting or demeaning. What I'm saying is this: Infidelity doesn't come into your front door while your looking. It happens in the shadows, beneath your notice.
> 
> And with White women there's a sign outside the door their White husbands cannot see. That sign reads: 'I'm a married White woman, but that means nothing. I'm unhappy. Make me happy.'
> 
> Most White husbands have no clue their White wives are cheating on them. Most White Men go through life (until the big reveal) believing in the feminist lie that Women don't really cheat, but men do. Or that women who do cheat do so because the husband did something to make them. Maybe he wasn't attentive enough. Not romantic enough. Not big enough. Not sexual enough. Not attractive anymore. Didn't dote on her, etc. They still think their White wives have the mores, values and general relationship outlook that most White women (like their grandmothers or some of their mothers) had in the 50s.
> 
> Just like you do. You are so sure your marriage is infidelity proof. You have trust (blind trust?) in your current wife. You've been through the gauntlet before, been burned by the fire so you are thinking "Nope. Won't happen to me again. I'm going to make sure this time!". You build walls higher than the great wall of China. You set your boundaries and like Gandalf you stomp your feet and say "You shall not pass!".
> 
> All the while your wife is growing resentful. She's felling caged. And then it happens. She's unhappy.
> 
> Then you get complacent, slothy, even happy. You become that same old fool of a White man who takes for granted the lessons of reality on White women that you had tortured into you in your younger years. You start thinking your wife is too old to have that cheating mentality, it's not going to happen. Marriage is too good. Boundaries are too solid.
> 
> Wrong. I cannot tell you how many stories like yours I've heard. White men so sure of their wives, so trusting that the idea would make them chuckle and joke about it. Until it happens.
> 
> Like I said, maybe you are your wife are guided by mores established in the 50s that have been eviscerated in the mainstream since then. Maybe you look to the culture of the West back then for your lessons, cultural outlooks and values. If that's the case - then maybe you're right and you got a good White woman.
> 
> I'm saying - I doubt it. That time and era like I stated above has been eviscerated by the mainstream at the behest of feminists. 50's values are 'archaic', 'misogynistic', etc. I doubt a White woman of 2016 would look back at the time for guidance with all the propaganda and social-engineering unless she is of an age when she lived during that era.
> 
> And in this era, today? White Women cannot remain faithful of monogamous. If it isn't the co-worker, it's the neighbor. If it isn't the neighbor, it's an old boyfriend or friend on social media. If it isn't an old friend, it's a stranger at a club. If it isn't a stranger at a club, it's a stranger during a vacation.
> 
> You cannot expect fidelity/monogamy from a group that exudes
> these traits:
> 
> Highest Infidelity Dates
> Highest Promiscuity Rates
> Highest Mixing Rates
> Highest Divorce Rates
> 
> It's simply a zero game.
> 
> Anyway. I was banned. So this is the end of our conversation. I wish you well in the future. Truly.


My wife wants me to tell you that you and people like you are just one more reason she would never betray me. She said she knows that if she did cheat she would lose me. And then she'd be relegated to dating and the dating pool would include degenerates like you. Her words not mine. I personally just think you are one sad bitter person who really needs therapy.


----------



## helpthisguy86

Wishes said:


> Some months later he found some inappropriate texts and pictures between me and OM, but, by this time I had become the liar and cheater and everything in between that I loathed in a person. I was also deep in the fog. I loved my husband *but truly needed to continue my relationship with OM* so we took it underground. We bought burner phones, set up new email accounts and would meet whenever possible. At this point it was not a PA and that’s where I drew the line. I enjoyed being able to drive OM crazy, he complimented me like crazy and he was always starving to see me.


You wanna tell me why you NEEDED to continue cheating? That's a choice, not a need.


----------



## MattMatt

helpthisguy86 said:


> You wanna tell me why you NEEDED to continue cheating? That's a choice, not a need.


This is what it is like in the mind of a cheater in the fog. 

It is the same landscape but 90% of it has vanished from view. Husband/spouse, children, heck, they might be there, but where? :scratchhead:


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Yes wishes has admitted this.


----------



## happyman64

Wishes

So you were not a good wife. We get it.

How about focusing on being a good person, a good mother?

I think that would go a long way in making you feel good.

It might also go a long way with your family seeing you returning to the person that you originally saw yourself as.

The key is to focus on you. In a positive way.

Not on how anyone currently perceives you!

HM

PS
Actions speak louder than words.


----------



## eastsouth2000

My take, Don't rush things barely been a year on.
Healing takes time on both sides. It takes a lot of time.

I'd say give at least 2-3 years, before making decisions. take this time to heal yourself.

Whats done is done, we cant change the past and we must accept the consequences.

See what still you have now, the marriage may be over. But the family is not.
You may no longer be husband and wife.
But You still have your children and you still have a father to your children.


----------



## JimmyCrackCorn

I've read all of this thread and the entirety of DoneGone's thread on SI (several times). As has already been stated: *What a waste of a marriage!* It is truly a tragic story: an apparently perfect and happy marriage (from the account of both husband and wife) fell victim to an affair. It really leaves a sense of hopelessness since few marriages are so-called perfect. If a "perfect" marriage can fall apart due to infidelity, what chances do less-than-perfect marriages have?

The passage of your husband getting on his hands and knees to kiss your belly to comfort you about your added weight was very touching, and frankly brought tears to my eyes. To have that sort of maturity at the tender age of 22 is something else; I certainly didn't have that level of understanding or maturity at that age (perhaps not even now). Sorry to say this but you traded, if you will, a filet mignon (DoneGone) for hamburger (POSOM: clown, and a pitiful excuse for a human being). Of course, you already know the terrible trade you obtained.

Also, it's tragic from the point of view that if DoneGone had posted to SI (or this site) earlier, i.e. while the affair was still an EA, he would have received the standard advice: bust the affair wide open (expose to OMW), do the 180, obtain full transparency, install VAR devices, and even to serve divorce papers. This would have likely stopped the affair dead in its tracks, and their story would have had a happy ending (sort-of). As the saying goes: "_You've got to be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save the marriage._"

Instead, DoneGone immediately forgave Wishes upon discovering inappropriate texts and pictures between her and POSOM since he "just had to". Wishes promptly proceeded to take the affair underground where it eventually became a PA. This was DoneGone's deal breaker. Alas, it's not really useful to continually ponder the "What if?" type questions, but I cannot help myself especially when reviewing my own marriage.

So why did you do this? I would venture a guess that perhaps you didn't actually love your husband, but instead you loved all the things and pampering he did for you. At the very least you didn't respect him (which for many men is as important as being loved). Add a dash of selfishness. So when the POSOM appeared on the scene during a vulnerable time in your life (both parents recently passed away) that whatever crap he uttered when you connected at your mom's (or dads?) funeral stirred some feelings you haven't felt in years. Unfortunately, you acted upon those feelings. Of course, this is all conjecture, and isn't answering your question in your original post.

The question in your original post being: "_Do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance?"_ It appears the chances are very slim. Key statements, in my opinion, made in DoneGone's thread pertains to how perfect the marriage was _before _the affair, i.e. it would be impossible to reconcile and have such a perfect marriage again. Instead, it would be less than perfect since the memory of the once perfect marriage would always be on his mind.

One of the important reasons for attempting reconciliation with my WW is that the end goal is to attain a marriage much better and stronger than before the affair. I acknowledge that our marriage before the affair was far from perfect, thus there is lots of room for improvement going forward, and this is a huge motivation to reconcile, IMO.


p.s. I realize that Wishes has likely "left the building" and probably won't reply or perhaps even read this response.


----------



## kaybenn

This!

Sent from my Nexus 5


----------



## jorgegene

JimmyCrackCorn said:


> I've read all of this thread and the entirety of DoneGone's thread on SI (several times). As has already been stated: *What a waste of a marriage!* It is truly a tragic story: an apparently perfect and happy marriage (from the account of both husband and wife) fell victim to an affair. It really leaves a sense of hopelessness since few marriages are so-called perfect. If a "perfect" marriage can fall apart due to infidelity, what chances do less-than-perfect marriages have?
> 
> The passage of your husband getting on his hands and knees to kiss your belly to comfort you about your added weight was very touching, and frankly brought tears to my eyes. To have that sort of maturity at the tender age of 22 is something else; I certainly didn't have that level of understanding or maturity at that age (perhaps not even now). Sorry to say this but you traded, if you will, a filet mignon (DoneGone) for hamburger (POSOM: clown, and a pathetic excuse for a human being). Of course, you already know the terrible trade you obtained.
> 
> Also, it's also tragic from the point of view that if DoneGone had posted to SI (or this site) earlier, i.e. while the affair was still an EA, he would have received the standard advice: bust the affair wide open (expose to OMW), do the 180, obtain full transparency, install VAR devices, and even to serve divorce papers. This would have likely stopped the affair dead in its tracks, and their story would have had a happy ending (sort-of). As the saying goes: "_You've got to be prepared to lose the marriage in order to save the marriage._"
> 
> Instead, DoneGone immediately forgave Wishes upon discovering inappropriate texts and pictures between her and POSOM since he "just had to". Wishes promptly proceeded to take the affair underground where it eventually became a PA. This was DoneGone's deal breaker. Alas, it's not really useful to continually ponder the "What if?" type questions, but I cannot help myself especially when reviewing my own marriage.
> 
> So why did you do this? I would venture a guess that perhaps you didn't actually love your husband, but instead you loved all the things and pampering he did for you. At the very least you didn't respect him (which for many men is as important as being loved). Add a dash of selfishness. So when the POSOM appeared on the scene during a vulnerable time in your life (both parents recently passed away) that whatever crap he uttered when you connected at your mom's (or dads?) funeral stirred some feelings you haven't felt in years. Unfortunately, you acted upon those feelings. Of course, this is all conjecture, and isn't answering your question in your original post.
> 
> The question in your original post being: "_Do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance?"_ It appears the chances are very slim. Key statements, in my opinion, made in DoneGone's thread pertains to how perfect the marriage was _before _the affair, i.e. it would be impossible to reconcile and have such a perfect marriage again. Instead, it would be less than perfect since the memory of the once perfect marriage would always be on his mind.
> 
> One of the important reasons for attempting reconciliation with my WW is that the end goal is to attain a marriage much better and stronger than before the affair. I acknowledge that our marriage before the affair was far from perfect, thus there is lots of room for improvement going forward, and this is a huge motivation to reconcile, IMO.
> 
> 
> p.s. I realize that Wishes has likely "left the building" and probably won't reply or perhaps even read this response.


very thoughtful and articulated and probably very accurate.

i would only add that maybe now after looking back and realizing what she had and reflecting, maybe she actually does love him now.
all the more tragic.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Well I don't see it that way. I know - from personal experience - that some people simply have weak boundaries and a damaged childhood.

What that can mean, tragically, is that the adult is trapped emotionally in child like patterns and thinking. Yes - sad but true.

It also means that someone CAN love their spouse AND betray them and be UNABLE to process the obvious conflict

I realize that this will rile up a bunch of you who want to "explain" this or find a rational answer.

There is none. Wishes had a "perfect" marriage and loved he H. AND she allowed herself to be swept up in a simple mating game with a guy she knew from her past. AND she was conflicted throughout the affair.

There is no need to reconcile the concepts that Wishes loved her H and betrayed him. She did both and is living with the shame and loss that it brought

No need to pile on more explanations or acquisitions. 

It would be nice if Wishes would return and if TAM could help.


----------



## ConanHub

TheTruthHurts said:


> Well I don't see it that way. I know - from personal experience - that some people simply have weak boundaries and a damaged childhood.
> 
> What that can mean, tragically, is that the adult is trapped emotionally in child like patterns and thinking. Yes - sad but true.
> 
> It also means that someone CAN love their spouse AND betray them and be UNABLE to process the obvious conflict
> 
> I realize that this will rile up a bunch of you who want to "explain" this or find a rational answer.
> 
> There is none. Wishes had a "perfect" marriage and loved he H. AND she allowed herself to be swept up in a simple mating game with a guy she knew from her past. AND she was conflicted throughout the affair.
> 
> There is no need to reconcile the concepts that Wishes loved her H and betrayed him. She did both and is living with the shame and loss that it brought
> 
> No need to pile on more explanations or acquisitions.
> 
> It would be nice if Wishes would return and if TAM could help.


She does need to work on her definition of love.

Love is action. Her actions showed anything but love and she needs to examine herself in that area to effect positive changes.

WS's do not love their BS or children while boning idiots.

They might love themselves. Saying you love someone while ripping them to shreds is a pathetically easy to spot delusion if not an outright lie.

Feeling love for someone while you harm them is certainly something but not real love.

She needs a lot of work in that area.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JimmyCrackCorn

TheTruthHurts said:


> There is no need to reconcile the concepts that Wishes loved her H and betrayed him.


Previously I speculated that Wishes didn't love her husband. ConanHubs subsequent comment that “_She does need to work on her definition of love_” has merit. In other words, her definition of love might be skewed and doesn’t match the definition of many/most of the folks here.

Anyway, as mentioned in the previous post, IMO, Wishes at the very least did NOT respect DoneGone, at least not in this final phase of their marriage. Love and respect go hand in hand in my mind. One can respect someone but not love them, but can there be real love between husband and wife without respect?

It can certainly be argued that merely embarking upon an affair is showing lack of respect. Wishes actions throughout the affair compounded this basic lack of respect towards her husband.

Wishes referred to DoneGone as "dumbo" at least 3 times during the e-mail conversation between her and POSOM that occurred post the “_fast foot restaurant encounter_”. She was belittling her husband for showing a most sacred attribute between a couple, that is, *trust*. DoneGone completely and 100% trusted her and the thought of Wishes engaging in any sort of affair did not even enter his mind. I can personally relate to this blind trust as this happened to me for a long time. For that trust, he is deemed a "dumbo" which I find heartbreaking to read. This certainly doesn't show any respect.

The "tearing" down of DoneGone when he started to question her frequent texting with "just a friend" is not showing respect. To convince DoneGone that he was likely suffering from Othello Syndrome (aka delusional jealousy) and needed therapy to the point where he actually began making arrangements to visit a "shrink" is *beyond *"not showing respect". This is mental and emotional abuse, and another poster on this thread likened this behavior to torture. How can one inflict such punishment on such a loving and caring husband while professing to love and respect him?!? Certainly not a proud moment indeed; it's an *unforgivable *moment to not only betray DoneGone but to capitalize on his blind trust to convince him that he suffers from delusional jealousy in an attempt to deflect him from any further "digging".

Then to witness his complete devastation, pain, and hurt when DoneGone discovered inappropriate texts and (naked) pictures between Wishes and OM and then continue by taking the affair underground (and eventually becoming a PA) doesn't show respect (or empathy) for him.

The involvement of their daughters to pressure DoneGone to forgive Wishes (and to give up on his "unreasonable" quest to get the passwords for various devices) is disrespectful to the children.

While on the topic of respect, Wishes didn't show the POSOM respect, not that he deserved any sort of respect given the description of him by DoneGone and the OMW. Wishes stated in her opening post that initially her involvement with POSOM was just some harmless fun: she enjoyed driving OM crazy, i.e. to tease the POSOM using sex as a carrot. No respect there.

The point of the last 2 examples above is to illustrate an all-around tendency for disrespectful behavior. Disrespectful behaviour towards DoneGone, her daughters, and lastly the POSOM. Regarding her blatant disrespectful behaviour towards DoneGone, given that I believe that real love is not possible without respect, I contend that Wishes didn't really love DoneGone (at least not any more).

Again, this is all conjecture based on relatively little facts; although in this case it's a fairly unique situation in that information from both sides have been provided.


Yes, I've heard about how the "affair fog" can really cloud ones judgment and radically alter one’s normal behavior, but several of the above occurrences likely occurred before the fog was “thick”. The involvement of the daughters certainly occurred after the fog was lifted (since Wishes affair was pretty much uncovered at this point). I've never experienced "the fog" and will likely never will. I've always been a clear headed rational thinker, so perhaps I just cannot wrap my mind around the sort of behavior that results when one is enveloped in the "affair fog".


Wishes loved the pampering, care, and attention from DoneGone, but did she really love him? Perhaps with a skewed definition of love, but I contend not with a real love (as some/most of us would define it) due to lack of respect which has been blatantly demonstrated.



TheTruthHurts said:


> It would be nice if Wishes would return and if TAM could help.


We can agree on this point. My statement is not entirely altruistic, not that I can really offer any real assistance given that I’ve only researched the topic of infidelity for the past 3 or so months. In order to better “protect my marriage”, I would really like to understand how this affair got off the ground in an apparently perfect marriage.


----------



## 2asdf2

JimmyCrackCorn said:


> Previously I speculated that Wishes didn't love her husband. ConanHubs subsequent comment that “_She does need to work on her definition of love_” has merit. In other words, her definition of love might be skewed and doesn’t match the definition of many/most of the folks here.
> 
> Anyway, as mentioned in the previous post, IMO, Wishes at the very least did NOT respect DoneGone, at least not in this final phase of their marriage. Love and respect go hand in hand in my mind. One can respect someone but not love them, but can there be real love between husband and wife without respect?
> 
> It can certainly be argued that merely embarking upon an affair is showing lack of respect. Wishes actions throughout the affair compounded this basic lack of respect towards her husband.
> 
> Wishes referred to DoneGone as "dumbo" at least 3 times during the e-mail conversation between her and POSOM that occurred post the “_fast foot restaurant encounter_”. She was belittling her husband for showing a most sacred attribute between a couple, that is, *trust*. DoneGone completely and 100% trusted her and the thought of Wishes engaging in any sort of affair did not even enter his mind. I can personally relate to this blind trust as this happened to me for a long time. For that trust, he is deemed a "dumbo" which I find heartbreaking to read. This certainly doesn't show any respect.
> 
> The "tearing" down of DoneGone when he started to question her frequent texting with "just a friend" is not showing respect. To convince DoneGone that he was likely suffering from Othello Syndrome (aka delusional jealousy) and needed therapy to the point where he actually began making arrangements to visit a "shrink" is *beyond *"not showing respect". This is mental and emotional abuse, and another poster on this thread likened this behavior to torture. How can one inflict such punishment on such a loving and caring husband while professing to love and respect him?!? Certainly not a proud moment indeed; it's an *unforgivable *moment to not only betray DoneGone but to capitalize on his blind trust to convince him that he suffers from delusional jealousy in an attempt to deflect him from any further "digging".
> 
> Then to witness his complete devastation, pain, and hurt when DoneGone discovered inappropriate texts and (naked) pictures between Wishes and OM and then continue by taking the affair underground (and eventually becoming a PA) doesn't show respect (or empathy) for him.
> 
> The involvement of their daughters to pressure DoneGone to forgive Wishes (and to give up on his "unreasonable" quest to get the passwords for various devices) is disrespectful to the children.
> 
> While on the topic of respect, Wishes didn't show the POSOM respect, not that he deserved any sort of respect given the description of him by DoneGone and the OMW. Wishes stated in her opening post that initially her involvement with POSOM was just some harmless fun: she enjoyed driving OM crazy, i.e. to tease the POSOM using sex as a carrot. No respect there.
> 
> The point of the last 2 examples above is to illustrate an all-around tendency for disrespectful behavior. Disrespectful behaviour towards DoneGone, her daughters, and lastly the POSOM. Regarding her blatant disrespectful behaviour towards DoneGone, given that I believe that real love is not possible without respect, I contend that Wishes didn't really love DoneGone (at least not any more).
> 
> Again, this is all conjecture based on relatively little facts; although in this case it's a fairly unique situation in that information from both sides have been provided.
> 
> 
> Yes, I've heard about how the "affair fog" can really cloud ones judgment and radically alter one’s normal behavior, but several of the above occurrences likely occurred before the fog was “thick”. The involvement of the daughters certainly occurred after the fog was lifted (since Wishes affair was pretty much uncovered at this point). I've never experienced "the fog" and will likely never will. I've always been a clear headed rational thinker, so perhaps I just cannot wrap my mind around the sort of behavior that results when one is enveloped in the "affair fog".
> 
> 
> Wishes loved the pampering, care, and attention from DoneGone, but did she really love him? Perhaps with a skewed definition of love, but I contend not with a real love (as some/most of us would define it) due to lack of respect which has been blatantly demonstrated.
> 
> 
> 
> We can agree on this point. My statement is not entirely altruistic, not that I can really offer any real assistance given that I’ve only researched the topic of infidelity for the past 3 or so months. In order to better “protect my marriage”, I would really like to understand how this affair got off the ground in an apparently perfect marriage.


This has added absolutely nothing to a thread that already has gone 36+ pages.

Has it been of help to Wishes?

Does she need a few more posts like this one?


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## Iver

Wishes flushed a good marriage down the toilet and can't answer or explain why she did it. She was also caught mocking her husband, who she claims to love, with a man who sounded like a low IQ thug.

She needs to understand what drives her to act in such a self destructive way. At minimum this understanding will help her mend fences with her family and hopefully avoid raining anguish and heartbreak on future relationships.

So yes, she does need to face unpleasant realities.


----------



## happy as a clam

Iver said:


> She was also caught mocking her husband, who she claims to love, with a man who sounded like a low IQ thug.


:iagree:

His texts and poor grammar sounded like a low IQ thug 8th grader. What on earth did she see in him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

happy as a clam said:


> :iagree:
> 
> His texts and poor grammar sounded like a low IQ thug 8th grader. What on earth did she see in him?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe it was the 7" of steel, lol.
Yes, this guy was gumpy. 
Yet another reason I think this whole deal is likely a sham.

Would a reasonably intelligent woman really be able to have sex with such a crass low-life as he sounded in his emails? If this is all true, wishes could be a person that has no real conscience. I've only met a couple of people like this in my life.

To make fun of her good husband and have an affair partner that plays footsie under the table while her husband hold and caresses her hand?
She is really quite a piece of work. A person you really never want to meet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iver

Evinrude58 said:


> Would a reasonably intelligent woman really be able to have sex with such a crass low-life as he sounded in his emails?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I probably sound like a broken record but the answer to this is yes.

I've seen it repeatedly. An attractive woman with a disgusting lowlife.


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## Jeffery

Wishes

I am going to take an honest attempt at Answering the question you have asked in this thread: This is going to be my opinion only I hope i do not get flamed for it.

the question of should i "wait for Him" or "Move On"?

You say you love your ex Husband very much, that you want to be with him, and you can not live without him. That being said let me ask you, Why are you even asking this? 

Is it because the nice guy at work is showing you some attention or the handsome man chatting you up at the Gym, or the concerned man next door has you thinking about "Moving on"

If your goal is to help him heal as best as you can here is what i think:
It is widely accepted that it takes from Two to five years for someone to heal from Infidelity. Why not give him that much time before Moving on? How would your exH feel if he saw you moving on when your divorce is not even two months old? would he be even more determined that he made the right decision to divorce you. After all would all the remorse you have shown seem somewhat insincere, if you gave up now? To Him or your Children?

1- putting your actions in harmony with your words

2- putting him first and at least trying to make some recompense, , even if he never gives you another chance you will know you gave it your all and so will he. this can also give him time to heal without seeing you enjoying your freedom from him.

3- he has stated that he still loves you very much , but is so very hurt. with time this hurt can be softened, and crack the door open to becoming closer to R : it is Hope that would be much less if you "Dated" 

4- his relationship with ombs or another woman he would date at this point in time i don't feel would go very far, one he still loves you : so how long would a woman date a man who still was deeply in love with his ex wife? it will be a major roadblock for any woman to get closer than just Dating.

there is a member of TAM who divorced his wife after her cheating: she did not date even though he did some , worked on herself, and after a few years her ex husband gave her another chance and they have a new baby together. perhaps another member can remember his thread and send you a link . she also is a member of TAM and has her own thread ; they both can help you understand your ex and what it takes to get another chance at love and marriage with your ex husband. 

please find their threads and read them before "moving on"


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## Marduk

Evinrude58 said:


> I believe it was the 7" of steel, lol.
> Yes, this guy was gumpy.
> Yet another reason I think this whole deal is likely a sham.
> 
> Would a reasonably intelligent woman really be able to have sex with such a crass low-life as he sounded in his emails? If this is all true, wishes could be a person that has no real conscience. I've only met a couple of people like this in my life.
> 
> To make fun of her good husband and have an affair partner that plays footsie under the table while her husband hold and caresses her hand?
> She is really quite a piece of work. A person you really never want to meet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My ex wife was extremely beautiful, very intelligent, and made a lot of money. 

I had just started pulling nearly six figures, was super fit, and got hit on all the time.

And she started cheating on me with a part time security guard that was unattractive, out of shape, in and out of work, and dumb as a rock.

Or so I was told. Who knows the truth? Anyway, you hear this kind of thing all the time.


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## Evinrude58

Wow. Just wow.

I guess I agree that if wishes doesn't date and gives it 2-5 years, he may just be stupid enough to give her another chance. If this is real.
Thing is, what she did is so unforgettable, there's no telling if even that length of time will allow him to have some good untainted memories of her. I doubt she can go 2-5 years without banging another dude, as sex-starved or attention-starved as she appeared in her emails.

IF--- this is real. There is a hint of sadness and remorse in what she was doing in those emails. She did tell him not to badmouth her husband. But then called him dumbo and practically jumped at the thought of slapping nasties with this guy. It's pretty nonsensical. Another reason it's hard to accept as real.

Why can't Wishes talk about her thoughts on why this happened? I guess because she knows her husband is likely reading this, which was her plan all along. She just hates all the negativity toward the idea of her husband reconciling with her. I just don't see how she can expect otherwise.

She should maybe try what she wanted all along: Tell us (him) WHY she did this despicable deed, WHY he should believe she'd never do it again, and WHY she feels like he should consider reconciling. I'ts not like he could be a better husband. What could he possibly think he could do to prevent her from getting involved with some other dude? Just take her word she won't do it again? Heck, she's proven beyond all doubt that she is willing to lie, make him think he is insane and needs a shrink, and bang other dudes. He should be intellectually incapable of believing her ever again.

But as usual, she is dead silent. Because it's inexplicable.


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## Iver

I think this could be used as an example of someone who probably could do better...it's Charlie Manson and fiancé in case anyone is wondering...


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## ConanHub

2asdf2 said:


> This has added absolutely nothing to a thread that already has gone 36+ pages.
> 
> Has it been of help to Wishes?
> 
> Does she need a few more posts like this one?


Just a pretty good breakdown of why @Wishes needs to redefine love as one of her steps towards improving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingFrwrd

marduk said:


> And she started cheating on me with a part time security guard that was unattractive, out of shape, in and out of work, and dumb as a rock.


Just look at the Tiger Woods example. When you eat filet all the time, that Arby's roast beef sandwich looks awfully good.

Sometimes you've gotta wonder what the WS thinks about. I want to grab them and tell them what idiots they are.


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## Evinrude58

Lol, you're mentally incapacitated by air pollution I reckon.

One and done? I must have more of your wisdom. Please, do tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Evinrude58 said:


> Lol, you're mentally incapacitated by air pollution I reckon.
> 
> One and done? I must have more of your wisdom. Please, do tell.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Must be promoting **** websites.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

SnowyPersonality said:


> Meh. Insults bore me.
> 
> I'm simply educating you. You are extremely naive.


Naive


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## Evinrude58

Lenzi, I presume?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt

Evinrude58 said:


> Lenzi, I presume?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, this would be Resistance.


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## eastsouth2000

From what I hear on the other site. The OMW is actually lurking on TAM discovered this and like a woman scorned all hell broke lose. OMW and OP's adult children involved.

OP i know you want to mend things with your BH and get back together.

but didnt your kids threaten your BH, that if he ever considered getting back together with you. the kids say they would disown BH and lose all respect for him.
are the kids threats still there. I think you have to address that first?


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## Evinrude58

Le resistance nom de plume lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

This guy is like the poster child for the old lead paint removal campaign.

It's sad to see that they didn't get all of the window sill's cleared before you started teething on the woodwork as a toddler.

You first went by "Resistance", then "SnowyPersonality"...

Now I dub thee as ThermometerMan.

Well, if you came here to give laughter I have to tell you, I chuckle every time I see one of your posts.


See folks, this is why televisions don't make good babysitters.





SnowyPersonality said:


> Any White man who enters into a relationship, especially that of a marriage, with a White woman in this day and age and expects fidelity, monogamy or anything resembling morals, honor, values, and decency is as naive as a human can be.
> 
> They are exercising poor judgement based on a lack of wisdom about modern White women and their behavior and the primary traits exhibited by them.
> 
> They completely deny and ignore the experience other men like them have gone through and always try and say "not all of them are like that..".
> 
> 5 Years later he comes home from work early and Tyrone from the nightclub you wife was at on her 'girls night out' is upstairs in your bed making holes in the wall where the headboard is.
> 
> Completely naive.
> 
> And as a White man who is educated, knowledgeable and awakened - it hurts my heart to see my brothers continue to be eaten alive by these women when there exists far superior alternatives.


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## TheTruthHurts

Moderators Thank you for cleaning up the thread


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## metallicaluvr

can you guys STAY ON TOPIC FOR ONCE? You want to know why Wishes isn't coming back? Because you keep talking about race on her thread!


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## ConanHub

metallicaluvr said:


> can you guys STAY ON TOPIC FOR ONCE? You want to know why Wishes isn't coming back? Because you keep talking about race on her thread!


Having fun with a troll while reporting him.

Wishes has had many opportunities and is still skittish.

She needs to grow up a little and keep posting.

Best wishes @Wishes! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Just screwin' with a troll.

Surely, you, being who you are, can understand this?...:smile2:



metallicaluvr said:


> can you guys STAY ON TOPIC FOR ONCE? You want to know why Wishes isn't coming back? Because you keep talking about race on her thread!


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## JimmyCrackCorn

ConanHub said:


> Just a pretty good breakdown of why @Wishes needs to redefine love as one of her steps towards improving.


Exactly (and thanks). Certainly providing the breakdown of all the disrespectful behaviour in one place seems harsh and brutal, but if this happens to trigger some sort of realization in Wishes, then yes, my previous post is helpful. At least it's more helpful than the recent barrage of "White woman" related posts.


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## bandit.45

JimmyCrackCorn said:


> Exactly (and thanks). Certainly providing the breakdown of all the disrespectful behaviour in one place seems harsh and brutal, but if this happens to trigger some sort of realization in Wishes, then yes, my previous post is helpful. At least it's more helpful than the recent barrage of "White woman" related posts.


Jimmy, if you crack corn, but I don't care, does that hurt your feelings?


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## ConanHub

1. Your thread jacking.

2. Statistics point out higher infidelity rates among other ethnicities.

3. I have white skin but am part black.

4. Is my black portion cheating with my white wife when I am not looking?

5. Now you have me paranoid about my other personalities.

6. No! Shut up! Sorry....The voices in my head are getting a little loud.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## happy as a clam

This thread is amazing. Wishes hasn't been back in ages, and it still keeps going like the Energizer bunny...



_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

ConanHub said:


> 1. Your thread jacking.
> 
> 2. Statistics point out higher infidelity rates among other ethnicities.
> 
> 3. I have white skin but am part black.
> 
> 4. Is my black portion cheating with my white wife when I am not looking?
> 
> 5. Now you have me paranoid about my other personalities.
> 
> 6. No! Shut up! Sorry....The voices in my head are getting a little loud.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's not what the voices said.


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## happy as a clam

Snowy... Why are you so focused on all this race cr*p??

Conan is right... You are seriously thread jacking.

Move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kobold

Snowy, why not just start a new thread? I think it's an interesting topic and would make for a lively debate.


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## michzz

A number of pages back this thread had good points to make about infidelity. It is non-useful now. A pity. Leaving it to those who think it's all a joke.


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## bandit.45

We're getting dive-bombed by SI trolls.


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## NewPhoenix5

Wishes,

Your affair and my Edith's affair are so similar... It's amazing. I discovered her EA, didn't believe it and just warned her and trusted her. Then she taking it underground and making out that I was controlling and seeing things. Then making it a PA as I tried to get her to stop what I suspected was an EA. Bringing in my eldest daughter to help cover it up... finally breaking into the text messages / emails and our world coming apart....

But,

I continue to limp along with a somewhat remorseful wife that wants to sweep it under a rug. DoneGone chose to D. Perhaps it is because my children are young and yours are grown that we chose different paths.

So you, to me, represent what my wife may have felt had I chose to D. If I continue on in this way, with a M that is nearly mortally wounded, will it ever heal? Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, "Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway..."

Wishes, what would you have done if DoneGone had just swept it under the rug once again and forgiven you? Do you think you would have been as remorseful or clear headed now? I really am having a hard time dragging her to the R water trough sometimes. What would you recommend I do to get Edith to feel what you now feel?

NP5


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## bandit.45

Wishes is gone folks.... I do believe....


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## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Wishes is gone folks.... I do believe....


After the infestation of her thread I am not surprised, to be honest.


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## bandit.45

MattMatt said:


> After the *infestation *of her thread I am not surprised, to be honest.


Good analogy.


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## JohnA

Actually @Wishes is still here but she is not posting. 

Your thread has been a roller coaster with a lot of anger being directed towards you. EI went though the same gauntlet. Although unlike you she felt justified in her actions. 

Her thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48469-how-much-detail.html

Later she joined her husbands thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html

At this point in time all you can do is work on yourself and rebuilding you relationship with your children.


----------



## weltschmerz

NewPhoenix5 said:


> Wishes,
> 
> Your affair and my Edith's affair are so similar... It's amazing. I discovered her EA, didn't believe it and just warned her and trusted her. Then she taking it underground and making out that I was controlling and seeing things. Then making it a PA as I tried to get her to stop what I suspected was an EA. Bringing in my eldest daughter to help cover it up... finally breaking into the text messages / emails and our world coming apart....
> 
> But,
> 
> I continue to limp along with a somewhat remorseful wife that wants to sweep it under a rug. DoneGone chose to D. Perhaps it is because my children are young and yours are grown that we chose different paths.
> 
> So you, to me, represent what my wife may have felt had I chose to D. If I continue on in this way, with a M that is nearly mortally wounded, will it ever heal? Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, "Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway..."
> 
> Wishes, what would you have done if DoneGone had just swept it under the rug once again and forgiven you? Do you think you would have been as remorseful or clear headed now? I really am having a hard time dragging her to the R water trough sometimes. What would you recommend I do to get Edith to feel what you now feel?
> 
> NP5


I read your thread, mate. Your wife is not 'somewhat' remorseful, she just isn't. She's using you, the kids everything to mask her shame. You're waffling and most likely will end up damaged in the long run

I've been reading up a lot of threads in a lot of different forums lately. Here are my conclusions.

1) Marriage is a fvcking piece of sh!t. Avoid it like the plague
2) Fools marry, myself included. I'm well on my way to remedying that situation I can assure you.
3) Decent blokes get fvcked the hardest and moan the loudest.
4) Women get bored with decent blokes.
5) Fear of losing the kids leads to paralysis and self doubt. Its best to go with the attitude that you have fvck all to lose. If it means running a black bag op to try and get more custody, more power to you. 
6) Cheaters are not decent people and they don't make good role models
7) People change, but people who need time to change and the right kind of motivation never truly change. It has to come from within.

Wishes would probably not have bothered signing up on this forum in the first place, if DoneGone hadn't thrown her to the dogs.

In my opinion, your wife is worse. Trying to get her to feel remorse will be harder than cutting your arm off with a pen knife and crawling on glass for hundreds of miles.


----------



## Wishes

NewPhoenix5 said:


> Wishes,
> 
> Your affair and my Edith's affair are so similar... It's amazing. I discovered her EA, didn't believe it and just warned her and trusted her. Then she taking it underground and making out that I was controlling and seeing things. Then making it a PA as I tried to get her to stop what I suspected was an EA. Bringing in my eldest daughter to help cover it up... finally breaking into the text messages / emails and our world coming apart....
> 
> But,
> 
> I continue to limp along with a somewhat remorseful wife that wants to sweep it under a rug. DoneGone chose to D. Perhaps it is because my children are young and yours are grown that we chose different paths.
> 
> So you, to me, represent what my wife may have felt had I chose to D. If I continue on in this way, with a M that is nearly mortally wounded, will it ever heal? Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, "Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway..."
> 
> Wishes, what would you have done if DoneGone had just swept it under the rug once again and forgiven you? Do you think you would have been as remorseful or clear headed now? I really am having a hard time dragging her to the R water trough sometimes. What would you recommend I do to get Edith to feel what you now feel?
> 
> NP5


I am not sure if you really want my advice or if you should even be listening to anything I have to say. However, if you are serious, then I feel compelled to give you my two cents worth, which, I’m sure you’ll be told that is about all its worth.
If indeed, I represent what your wife may have felt had you chose to divorce her, then, you need to file for divorce. The reason she is only ‘somewhat remorseful’ is because you are not demanding full remorse. You have to make it very clear that you will not entertain saving the marriage or consider moving forward until you know that she’s deeply sorry and that she understands exactly what this has done to you. If she does not feel remorse for this huge stab in the back and massive deceit, you should leave her.

*"Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, “Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway…"*

A mortal wound always precedes death, so what do you have to lose. Filing is a win/win. Either she will display an adequate, meaningful, specific and deep remorse and do her part in reviving the marriage, or demonstrate that she is no longer invested in the marriage. You’ll have your answer. 
If you are truly choosing to stay in the marriage because your children are still young, this still does not prevent you from filing for divorce. The threat of losing her family could have a huge impact on your wife. It’s worth a try.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Wishes said:


> NewPhoenix5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes,
> 
> Your affair and my Edith's affair are so similar... It's amazing. I discovered her EA, didn't believe it and just warned her and trusted her. Then she taking it underground and making out that I was controlling and seeing things. Then making it a PA as I tried to get her to stop what I suspected was an EA. Bringing in my eldest daughter to help cover it up... finally breaking into the text messages / emails and our world coming apart....
> 
> But,
> 
> I continue to limp along with a somewhat remorseful wife that wants to sweep it under a rug. DoneGone chose to D. Perhaps it is because my children are young and yours are grown that we chose different paths.
> 
> So you, to me, represent what my wife may have felt had I chose to D. If I continue on in this way, with a M that is nearly mortally wounded, will it ever heal? Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, "Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway..."
> 
> Wishes, what would you have done if DoneGone had just swept it under the rug once again and forgiven you? Do you think you would have been as remorseful or clear headed now? I really am having a hard time dragging her to the R water trough sometimes. What would you recommend I do to get Edith to feel what you now feel?
> 
> NP5
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure if you really want my advice or if you should even be listening to anything I have to say. However, if you are serious, then I feel compelled to give you my two cents worth, which, I?m sure you?ll be told that is about all its worth.
> If indeed, I represent what your wife may have felt had you chose to divorce her, then, you need to file for divorce. The reason she is only ?somewhat remorseful? is because you are not demanding full remorse. You have to make it very clear that you will not entertain saving the marriage or consider moving forward until you know that she?s deeply sorry and that she understands exactly what this has done to you. If she does not feel remorse for this huge stab in the back and massive deceit, you should leave her.
> 
> *"Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, ?Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway?"*
> 
> A mortal wound always precedes death, so what do you have to lose. Filing is a win/win. Either she will display an adequate, meaningful, specific and deep remorse and do her part in reviving the marriage, or demonstrate that she is no longer invested in the marriage. You?ll have your answer.
> If you are truly choosing to stay in the marriage because your children are still young, this still does not prevent you from filing for divorce. The threat of losing her family could have a huge impact on your wife. It?s worth a try.
Click to expand...

Very well said!


----------



## 2asdf2

Wishes said:


> ----------snipped for brevity----------------------
> 
> *The reason she is only ‘somewhat remorseful’ is because you are not demanding full remorse. *
> 
> ----------snipped for brevity----------------------



I believe full remorse is the product of a person's inner core values and driven by reflection, passage of time, observation of others, and introspection of self.

I am disturbed that your thoughts could be interpreted as a different form of blaming the victim.

I am sure you do not mean that.


----------



## ConanHub

Great post @Wishes

Very good advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weltschmerz

Wishes said:


> I am not sure if you really want my advice or if you should even be listening to anything I have to say. However, if you are serious, then I feel compelled to give you my two cents worth, which, I’m sure you’ll be told that is about all its worth.
> If indeed, I represent what your wife may have felt had you chose to divorce her, then, you need to file for divorce. The reason she is only ‘somewhat remorseful’ is because you are not demanding full remorse. You have to make it very clear that you will not entertain saving the marriage or consider moving forward until you know that she’s deeply sorry and that she understands exactly what this has done to you. If she does not feel remorse for this huge stab in the back and massive deceit, you should leave her.
> 
> *"Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, “Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway…"*
> 
> A mortal wound always precedes death, so what do you have to lose. Filing is a win/win. Either she will display an adequate, meaningful, specific and deep remorse and do her part in reviving the marriage, or demonstrate that she is no longer invested in the marriage. You’ll have your answer.
> If you are truly choosing to stay in the marriage because your children are still young, this still does not prevent you from filing for divorce. The threat of losing her family could have a huge impact on your wife. It’s worth a try.


This is good advice.

My question to you and the community in general is, if facing the consequences of your actions was the only way you felt remorse, that is, your husband being a hard arse was what spurred you on, then can it truly be categorised as remorse or more like fear that elicited the right reaction? Does that not mean your(any WS) actions are not purely self serving?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that.


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## ConanHub

weltschmerz said:


> This is good advice.
> 
> My question to you and the community in general is, if facing the consequences of your actions was the only way you felt remorse, that is, your husband being a hard arse was what spurred you on, then can it truly be categorised as remorse or more like fear that elicited the right reaction? Does that not mean your(any WS) actions are not purely self serving?
> 
> I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that.


People aren't automatically born knowing how to be remorseful.
Some learn early, others don't learn until they lose everything.
Hard repercussions often speed the process of learning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

ConanHub said:


> People aren't automatically born knowing how to be remorseful.
> Some learn early, others don't learn until they lose everything.
> Hard repercussions often speed the process of learning.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're right. Experience teaches us hard lessons. Some people are sheltered to an extent. They don't have many formative experiences to mold and shape them.


----------



## weltschmerz

ConanHub said:


> People aren't automatically born knowing how to be remorseful.
> Some learn early, others don't learn until they lose everything.
> Hard repercussions often speed the process of learning.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





bfree said:


> You're right. Experience teaches us hard lessons. Some people are sheltered to an extent. They don't have many formative experiences to mold and shape them.


I understand what you guys are trying to say here. I'm certainly not questioning Wishes' remorse nor Edith's(well maybe hers, a little). It isn't a question of what made a person remorseful.

What are the underlying motivations, did @Wishes remorse come from a place of fear? Is she feeling remorseful for the situation she helped cause or regretful for the situation she's in? Being able to discern the distinction between the two is hard for a BS, imo, it certainly is for me.


----------



## bfree

weltschmerz said:


> I understand what you guys are trying to say here. I'm certainly not questioning Wishes' remorse nor Edith's(well maybe hers, a little). It isn't a question of what made a person remorseful.
> 
> What are the underlying motivations, did @Wishes remorse come from a place of fear? Is she feeling remorseful for the situation she helped cause or regretful for the situation she's in? Being able to discern the distinction between the two is hard for a BS, imo, it certainly is for me.


Damned near impossible I'd say which is why true and successful reconciliation is so rare and difficult. You have to choose to trust the motivations of the person that broke your trust in the first place.


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## Blossom Leigh

She speaks...

Glad you're back Wishes.


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## wilson

weltschmerz said:


> What are the underlying motivations, did @Wishes remorse come from a place of fear? Is she feeling remorseful for the situation she helped cause or regretful for the situation she's in? Being able to discern the distinction between the two is hard for a BS, imo, it certainly is for me.


One way to tell is to see how they act when the spotlight is off them. When the WS is talking with friends, are they respectful of the BS or do they vent? When the BS makes a request, are they considerate in their response or do they snap back? Is the WS constantly looking for validation of their progress or are they eager to find new ways to make the BS happy?

As for Wishes specifically, from her posts here I get the feeling that she truly has changed. The shock of this whole mess has given her an epiphany and she is now a different, better person. I think she will remain faithful in the future because she knows it is inherently wrong to cheat rather than because of fear of getting caught. But you can never know another person fully, and you may not really even know yourself until you're in that challenging situation.


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## straightshooter

Wishes,

All of this bashing you is not helpful at this point, nor it the crap from the idiot who is trying to turn this into a racial argument.

You know you made some terrible choices. That has been done and cannot be undone. All this speculation of it takes 2-5 years, which may be true, is also not helping you because no one hasd a crystal ball here. I think the 2-5 years thing is mostly directed at folks where both pelople are actively tryin g to recincile. Not the case here.

If you want to play the percentages, it is quite unlikely your husband is going to get over what you did and the way you did the other things. I think you have accepted that unless he gets hit by lightning your outcome is not going to be what you now claim you want.

You do need to move on with your life. You are not an old woman and hopefully at some point you will at least have good relations with your kids. Punishing yourself is not going to change what you did to him.

You came here for help. 36-40 pages of blasting you is enough. Some things cannot be fixed. That you will have to live with.

PS- The advice you gave to New Phoenix5 was very well put and spot on. Just my opinion.


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## sapientia

ffs. I thought we had the 'no bashing' thing sorted pages ago. I was away traveling Wishes. I hope you are finding some answers in all these posts.

@Mods - a reminder *she did explicitly ask in her very first post* not to be mob-bashed.


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## eric1

I like Wishes. She did something really bad, paid a price and seemed to learn something from it. That last part puts her, unfortunately, in some pretty rare company. 

From one of the worst 'stories' to something resembling hope is pretty cool.


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## oneMOreguy

Wishes.....you and your ex's situation is truly heart rendering. It is clear that at this point you both care deeply for each other. No advice......just the promise of prayers for peace and God's blessings for you both.


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## NewPhoenix5

Wishes said:


> I am not sure if you really want my advice or if you should even be listening to anything I have to say. However, if you are serious, then I feel compelled to give you my two cents worth, which, I’m sure you’ll be told that is about all its worth.
> If indeed, I represent what your wife may have felt had you chose to divorce her, then, you need to file for divorce. The reason she is only ‘somewhat remorseful’ is because you are not demanding full remorse. You have to make it very clear that you will not entertain saving the marriage or consider moving forward until you know that she’s deeply sorry and that she understands exactly what this has done to you. If she does not feel remorse for this huge stab in the back and massive deceit, you should leave her.
> 
> *"Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, “Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway…"*
> 
> A mortal wound always precedes death, so what do you have to lose. Filing is a win/win. Either she will display an adequate, meaningful, specific and deep remorse and do her part in reviving the marriage, or demonstrate that she is no longer invested in the marriage. You’ll have your answer.
> If you are truly choosing to stay in the marriage because your children are still young, this still does not prevent you from filing for divorce. The threat of losing her family could have a huge impact on your wife. It’s worth a try.


Wishes, that is hard medicine! Why would I take medicine to kill myself to save myself? Why do I need to end the marriage to save it? Some will say it already is dead. That Edith killed it when she did what she did. OK, I see that. But if it is my desire to save it, and I see progress from Edith transitioning from defiant adulterer, to uneasy adulterer, to longing ex-adulterer, to regretful ex-adulterer, to somewhat remorseful ex-adulterer... 

I see progress, but is it enough? Does someone have to have a near death experience to make that transition if they initially don't get it after disclosure? Does trickle / staggered disclosure prevent that moment of feeling of losing all and prevent the fog from ever fully clearing?

Why does the decisive divorce driven fog clearing become the optimal route to go instead of the slow, tenuous self-driven fog clearing?

Edith ended the Affair and said goodbye to the OM in her own time when I was still oblivious to the PA and when it was deep underground. Does she get no credit for pulling out of it when she could have continued on?

I see that I am not demanding full remorse. You are right. Is remorse something she can just create from will? If remorse is a feeling, then she really isn't in control of that. I certainly am not in control of her feelings. It's like demanding Edith to make it rain. If she doesn't have it, it's not there.

Now she can do the things a remorseful spouse would naturally do, like posting about the feelings of the spouse, not posting about her feelings that she is giving too much. Like finding a website to get help and seeing a IC to work on yourself without prompting from the betrayed spouse. Like buying books to help fix yourself and not waiting for your BS to buy them for you.

I see why you said what you did, but it is so damn counter intuitive... Do the opposite of what you want to get what you want. 

I guess that is why God gave us free will and is willing to let us kill each other and do horrible things to each other in order that we can fully chose to love him.


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## Maxo

I have read this thread and the o ne at SI and the simple question that enters my mind is : how, if you love your husband, you could have treated him as you did? I , sincerely, do not understand this, as my XW. has claimed she loves me, but the level of cruelty she displayed during and right after her affairs was beyond belief. Kind of like yours.

I mean, I get the limerance-lust deal , but how, exactly, does that morph into such cruelty?


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## Hope Shimmers

wilson said:


> As for Wishes specifically, from her posts here I get the feeling that she truly has changed. The shock of this whole mess has given her an epiphany and she is now a different, better person. I think she will remain faithful in the future because she knows it is inherently wrong to cheat rather than because of fear of getting caught.


Granted, I haven't read all 40-plus pages, but whether or not she has changed matters nothing if her ex-husband doesn't see it. And is he looking?

What Wishes did was horrific. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone can do that even once, let alone over and over and OVER. I can't imagine how an ex-husband could ever forgive it. I don't think I could, if something like that lasted for years and not just months or weeks.

I think that at my point in life, I would just walk away and start over with someone else.


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## metallicaluvr

NewPhoenix5 said:


> Wishes, that is hard medicine! Why would I take medicine to kill myself to save myself? Why do I need to end the marriage to save it? Some will say it already is dead. That Edith killed it when she did what she did. OK, I see that. But if it is my desire to save it, and I see progress from Edith transitioning from defiant adulterer, to uneasy adulterer, to longing ex-adulterer, to regretful ex-adulterer, to somewhat remorseful ex-adulterer...
> 
> I see progress, but is it enough? Does someone have to have a near death experience to make that transition if they initially don't get it after disclosure? Does trickle / staggered disclosure prevent that moment of feeling of losing all and prevent the fog from ever fully clearing?
> 
> Why does the decisive divorce driven fog clearing become the optimal route to go instead of the slow, tenuous self-driven fog clearing?
> 
> Edith ended the Affair and said goodbye to the OM in her own time when I was still oblivious to the PA and when it was deep underground. Does she get no credit for pulling out of it when she could have continued on?
> 
> I see that I am not demanding full remorse. You are right. Is remorse something she can just create from will? If remorse is a feeling, then she really isn't in control of that. I certainly am not in control of her feelings. It's like demanding Edith to make it rain. If she doesn't have it, it's not there.
> 
> Now she can do the things a remorseful spouse would naturally do, like posting about the feelings of the spouse, not posting about her feelings that she is giving too much. Like finding a website to get help and seeing a IC to work on yourself without prompting from the betrayed spouse. Like buying books to help fix yourself and not waiting for your BS to buy them for you.
> 
> I see why you said what you did, but it is so damn counter intuitive... Do the opposite of what you want to get what you want.
> 
> I guess that is why God gave us free will and is willing to let us kill each other and do horrible things to each other in order that we can fully chose to love him.


I'm going to tell you what Wishes was trying to say nicely in a blunt manner: You need to show your wife that you have the BALLS to divorce her, that you refuse to be treated this way.

the world isn't going to end if you file for divorce. You come across as a wimp, tbh. And I'm not the only one who feels that way. We can only listen to you drowning yourself in sorrow on two different websites for so long until it becomes obvious that you're just going to sit there whining and not do anything about it.

Wishes' point is that her true remorse only really came about when she saw that her husband really was ready to leave her, that his world did not in fact revolve around her, as she, if you read her earlier posts, thought it did. edith thought she could do whatever she wanted because you'd never have the guts to leave her. And you're proving her right.

By staying "for your kids", after what she did to you with their music teacher, in FRONT of them, you're sending a horrible message to them. Tomorrow, if their husbands do to them what Edith did to you, they're going to take Daddy's example and just sit there and take it. Isn't that pathetic?

Btw, you need to focus on yourself as well. If there's even an iota of truth to what she describes your pre-A marriage as, then you, whilst not sleeping with other women, were a ****ty husband. After you file for divorce and attempt to reconcile either before or after it is final, you need to work on your OWN flaws.


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## TheTruthHurts

Thanks for returning wishes! To the people who keep beating her up - just remember she is living with the consequences every day - asking her "why" probably doesn't add anything to the conversation unless you just like the sound of your own voice

I'd like to ask Wishes to just share anything - even just a day in your life. What are you thinking - what are you doing.

I think if you filter out those that continue to bash you, you'll find a bunch of people who actually want to help you move forward.

Right now you're stuck. Talk to us about anything.


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## bandit.45

I applaud Wishes. It takes tremendous courage to own your sh!t and run the gauntlet of TAM just so that others can learn from your experience.


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## eric1

NewPhoenix5 said:


> Wishes, that is hard medicine! Why would I take medicine to kill myself to save myself? Why do I need to end the marriage to save it? Some will say it already is dead. That Edith killed it when she did what she did. OK, I see that. But if it is my desire to save it, and I see progress from Edith transitioning from defiant adulterer, to uneasy adulterer, to longing ex-adulterer, to regretful ex-adulterer, to somewhat remorseful ex-adulterer...
> 
> 
> 
> I see progress, but is it enough? Does someone have to have a near death experience to make that transition if they initially don't get it after disclosure? Does trickle / staggered disclosure prevent that moment of feeling of losing all and prevent the fog from ever fully clearing?
> 
> 
> 
> Why does the decisive divorce driven fog clearing become the optimal route to go instead of the slow, tenuous self-driven fog clearing?
> 
> 
> 
> Edith ended the Affair and said goodbye to the OM in her own time when I was still oblivious to the PA and when it was deep underground. Does she get no credit for pulling out of it when she could have continued on?
> 
> 
> 
> I see that I am not demanding full remorse. You are right. *Is remorse something she can just create from will? If remorse is a feeling, then she really isn't in control of that. *I certainly am not in control of her feelings. It's like demanding Edith to make it rain. If she doesn't have it, it's not there.
> 
> 
> 
> Now she can do the things a remorseful spouse would naturally do, like posting about the feelings of the spouse, not posting about her feelings that she is giving too much. Like finding a website to get help and seeing a IC to work on yourself without prompting from the betrayed spouse. Like buying books to help fix yourself and not waiting for your BS to buy them for you.
> 
> 
> 
> I see why you said what you did, but it is so damn counter intuitive... Do the opposite of what you want to get what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that is why God gave us free will and is willing to let us kill each other and do horrible things to each other in order that we can fully chose to love him.



Full remorse occurs when you see the results of what you did and the impact on people who you love more than yourself.

She's saying that your wife either doesn't love you more than she loves herself or she's still not seeing the results of her actions and that divorce is your last Hail Mary pass.


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## 2asdf2

NewPhoenix5 said:


> -----------snipped for brevity--------------------
> 
> *I see that I am not demanding full remorse. You are right. Is remorse something she can just create from will? If remorse is a feeling, then she really isn't in control of that. I certainly am not in control of her feelings. It's like demanding Edith to make it rain. If she doesn't have it, it's not there.*
> 
> -----------snipped for brevity--------------------


My very thoughts.

Oftentimes WS attempt to comply with the BS demands when their heart is not in it.

Only for the BS to find out later that it was just a false reconciliation.


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## Wishes

Maxo said:


> I have read this thread and the o ne at SI and the simple question that enters my mind is : how, if you love your husband, you could have treated him as you did? I , sincerely, do not understand this, as my XW. has claimed she loves me, but the level of cruelty she displayed during and right after her affairs was beyond belief. Kind of like yours.
> 
> I mean, I get the limerance-lust deal , but how, exactly, does that morph into such cruelty?


There are two sides to every story, and then there’s the truth; however, nothing I can say is going to be a mitigating factor that will excuse or justify my betrayal of my husband. Regardless my circumstances, there is no argument that I could give that should result in reduced charges or a lesser sentence. But, even as I admit I deserve what I got, still, there are silent “other thoughts” hanging on the end of that sentence, invisible, but still there.


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## Divinely Favored

Basically it seems like in a cheaters mind.......what she did is not bad/hurtful enough for you to end the marriage there for what she did is not reeaaallly that bad.....or you would be serving up more consequences/divorce. But since you will not go there She does not feel the remorse because, yeah you got upset...but she did not hurt you that bad since you are not looking to divorce.

Its like if someone does not see truely how bad they hurt you the remorse will not be there. The divorce papers can show her how badly you are hurt....there by make her see how bad her actions have affected you.


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## bandit.45

There is no such thing as a perfect husband or wife. Everyone has put up with crap from their spouses that, on paper, would be grounds for divorce: verbal abuse, neglect, psychological and emotional abuse, compulsive lying, sexual neglect, laziness, avarice, sexual incompatibility, financial infidelity, anger issues....the list goes on. All of these, when compounded over the years are grounds for one of the spouses to say "You know what? I'm done. I'm not happy....you will not change...I'm gone!"

None of them are grounds for cheating. 

You can argue all day that your spouse's behavior drove you into the arms of another, and you will be pissing in the wind. Frankly, if you want to be authentically remorseful....don't even go there.


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## Marduk

Wishes said:


> I am not sure if you really want my advice or if you should even be listening to anything I have to say. However, if you are serious, then I feel compelled to give you my two cents worth, which, I’m sure you’ll be told that is about all its worth.
> If indeed, I represent what your wife may have felt had you chose to divorce her, then, you need to file for divorce. The reason she is only ‘somewhat remorseful’ is because you are not demanding full remorse. You have to make it very clear that you will not entertain saving the marriage or consider moving forward until you know that she’s deeply sorry and that she understands exactly what this has done to you. If she does not feel remorse for this huge stab in the back and massive deceit, you should leave her.
> 
> *"Should I divorce to see if she can get the incentive to try and fix herself? Or will she just say, “Good, it was so tiresome dealing with your whining and complaining anyway…"*
> 
> A mortal wound always precedes death, so what do you have to lose. Filing is a win/win. Either she will display an adequate, meaningful, specific and deep remorse and do her part in reviving the marriage, or demonstrate that she is no longer invested in the marriage. You’ll have your answer.
> If you are truly choosing to stay in the marriage because your children are still young, this still does not prevent you from filing for divorce. The threat of losing her family could have a huge impact on your wife. It’s worth a try.


Epic post.

I hope some folks around here pay attention to it...


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## farsidejunky

NewPhoenix5 said:


> Wishes, that is hard medicine! Why would I take medicine to kill myself to save myself? Why do I need to end the marriage to save it? Some will say it already is dead. That Edith killed it when she did what she did. OK, I see that. But if it is my desire to save it, and I see progress from Edith transitioning from defiant adulterer, to uneasy adulterer, to longing ex-adulterer, to regretful ex-adulterer, to somewhat remorseful ex-adulterer...
> 
> I see progress, but is it enough? Does someone have to have a near death experience to make that transition if they initially don't get it after disclosure? Does trickle / staggered disclosure prevent that moment of feeling of losing all and prevent the fog from ever fully clearing?
> 
> Why does the decisive divorce driven fog clearing become the optimal route to go instead of the slow, tenuous self-driven fog clearing?
> 
> Edith ended the Affair and said goodbye to the OM in her own time when I was still oblivious to the PA and when it was deep underground. Does she get no credit for pulling out of it when she could have continued on?
> 
> I see that I am not demanding full remorse. You are right. Is remorse something she can just create from will? If remorse is a feeling, then she really isn't in control of that. I certainly am not in control of her feelings. It's like demanding Edith to make it rain. If she doesn't have it, it's not there.
> 
> Now she can do the things a remorseful spouse would naturally do, like posting about the feelings of the spouse, not posting about her feelings that she is giving too much. Like finding a website to get help and seeing a IC to work on yourself without prompting from the betrayed spouse. Like buying books to help fix yourself and not waiting for your BS to buy them for you.
> 
> I see why you said what you did, but it is so damn counter intuitive... Do the opposite of what you want to get what you want.
> 
> I guess that is why God gave us free will and is willing to let us kill each other and do horrible things to each other in order that we can fully chose to love him.


You are only your marriage if you are codependent. There is more to you, but you won't allow yourself to see it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

For wishes:

I'm thinking that this is the logic:
You want a great husband that treasures you and will support you and be there for you the rest of your life. Who wouldn't????
But wishes, you know you trashed yours and threw it all away. Only you know why.
He'd be an idiot to let you do it again. You know this.

The good: he and you had a great marriage before, so he likely wants that again. And in time, likely lots of it, he may come back. I doubt it.
But guess what? Only God knows out hearts, and he knows yours. And only God knows the future. If you and your husband reconciling is in the plan, it will happen. Nothing you can do or we can say to change it.
If you are truly remorseful, and are the woman to make your ex happy, I pray that it will all work out.
You know what you did and have to live with it. I will pray for you either way, and hope you won't hold it against me to point toward your mess up--- we all make them in some way or another.
And I'm thinking since you keep coming back, your story may be real--- it seemed far-fetched.
Some of my past comments were directed with thinking this was fake. I'm sorry for that.
Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

The Bible tells us that if we go before God fully contrite, and pray fervently for the deepest desire of our heart, that God will grant it if it is in keeping with his will.

So Wishes, I say go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help you become a safe partner again, and to guide your husband back to you.


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## eric1

Wishes said:


> There are two sides to every story, and then there’s the truth; however, nothing I can say is going to be a mitigating factor that will excuse or justify my betrayal of my husband. Regardless my circumstances, there is no argument that I could give that should result in reduced charges or a lesser sentence. But, even as I admit I deserve what I got, still, there are silent “other thoughts” hanging on the end of that sentence, invisible, but still there.



I see what you're saying. I agree that there is no excuse for what you did, and that you're there is tremendous.

But I think your point is that before the affair all was not perfect in Disneyland, but understand that in the context of this discussion that it is not material.

It gets into a whole other side discussion of what perfect really is and how you know things are perfect when you're experiencing them (and being smart enough to understand perfect is just some level of 'satisfied')


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## eric1

bandit.45 said:


> The Bible tells us that if we go before God fully contrite, and pray fervently for the deepest desire of our heart, that God will grant it if it is in keeping with his will.
> 
> 
> 
> So Wishes, I say go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help you become a safe partner again, and to guide your husband back to you.



Being contrite is one thing. But the only true reconciliation will happen with that type of contrition mixed with a 'I will never be that person again no matter the outcome of my relationship'. 

DoneGone is probably gone but let's say there was a part of him that could come back. The most effective nuclear bomb would be for him to unwittingly discover Wishes doing something completely on her own to fix what she did to herself and her family. Like if he was dropping off paperwork and she wasn't home...because she was at an IC he didn't know about, or similar


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## TaDor

@Wishes :

As others have said, you need to work on yourself. Each marriage or breakup is different and the ability to reconciliation will vary. What is generally the same is the HOW the cheater justifies their actions and the devastation caused to the BS.

The nuclear bomb phrase is pretty accurate.

I caught my wife doing lots of texting, things behind my back while I was trying to save our marriage. I didn't know about TAM or affair fog. My wife is an alcoholic in which the POM was a big time enabler. When the affair happened and she left, it was truly soul-ripping. Until that day, the word "betrayed" was not in my vocabulary. I never really experienced it before. Look at it... *YOU* did something, your husband would never have done to you.

I do thank you for your post, you both need healing. I recommend that both of you read the book "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass. Which explains affairs and how to possibly recover or at least start healing.

As someone told me elsewhere... the marriage is *dead*. My wife killed it just as you killed yours. I very much love my wife but still wanted her to be out of my life. But I'm giving her the only chance she has now and she is bending backwards to prove herself. She shamed herself to everyone we know, but worse - she destroyed me and harmed our son emotionally. 

With the therapy we are getting (+ AA meetings) and books, we are actually better at sharing our feelings and thoughts than ever before. We are learning NEW things about each other, so its almost like a new relationship. Even with that, we know that it will take a LONG time to rebuild that trust and while I can forgive her, I cannot ever FORGET what she has done.


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## ConanHub

bandit.45 said:


> The Bible tells us that if we go before God fully contrite, and pray fervently for the deepest desire of our heart, that God will grant it if it is in keeping with his will.
> 
> So Wishes, I say go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help you become a safe partner again, and to guide your husband back to you.


QFT..
Dang...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

eric1 said:


> Being contrite is one thing. But the only true reconciliation will happen with that type of contrition mixed with a 'I will never be that person again no matter the outcome of my relationship'.
> 
> DoneGone is probably gone but let's say there was a part of him that could come back. The most effective nuclear bomb would be for him to unwittingly discover Wishes doing something completely on her own to fix what she did to herself and her family. Like if he was dropping off paperwork and she wasn't home...because she was at an IC he didn't know about, or similar


God can always say "no". There are no guarantees.


----------



## Maxo

eric1 said:


> I see what you're saying. I agree that there is no excuse for what you did, and that you're there is tremendous.
> 
> But I think your point is that before the affair all was not perfect in Disneyland, but understand that in the context of this discussion that it is not material.
> 
> It gets into a whole other side discussion of what perfect really is and how you know things are perfect when you're experiencing them (and being smart enough to understand perfect is just some level of 'satisfied')


I get the imperfect marriage concept leading to cheating, although I think it is primitive and very hard to take seriously.
I was asking about the gratuitous cruelty, the disdain for her husband as shown in the mocking session with the O M and, especially by the willingness to let her husband suffer so much as he questioned his mental health with her encouragement.
Wouldn't someone who loved another defend that person from ridicule? And, wouldn't you intercede if you saw a loved one suffering from the fear of having lost it, mentally?
I am by no means a saint, but these types of things are beyond me, I hope.


----------



## eric1

Maxo said:


> I get the imperfect marriage concept leading to cheating, although I think it is primitive and very hard to take seriously.
> 
> I was asking about the gratuitous cruelty, the disdain for her husband as shown in the mocking session with the O M and, especially by the willingness to let her husband suffer so much as he questioned his mental health with her encouragement.
> 
> Wouldn't someone who loved another defend that person from ridicule? And, wouldn't you intercede if you saw a loved one suffering from the fear of having lost it, mentally?
> 
> I am by no means a saint, but these types of things are beyond me, I hope.



I have a tough time understanding how it happens as well. It's part of why I like coming here - deep down we're all pretty messed up.

But in general I agree with you. Someone who loves you doesn't do the things that Wishes did. We are our actions and D-Day may have been the action that taught her some important lessons. For true R to occur not only do you need the lightning in the bottle of a BS who can truly forgive but you need the wayward to really discover something in themselves. Like something needs to click and a brand new light shining down from the heavens discovery.

I'm pessimistic that many marriages can be saved even with two 'willing' participants. In this case DoneGone has probably done her a tremendous kindness and not kept her dangling from a rope.


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## owl6118

Wishes said:


> Is my character defined by the 46 years I lived before my affair, the 9 months of my affair or the year that has passed since the affair? I am not necessarily making a statement, I am asking a question?


Hello Wishes.

Since you are still with us, I wanted to turn back the clock to something you wrote in the first few pages of the thread, quoted above.

The answer to your question is, simply, "Yes."

You are the woman who was a loyal wife and good mother to your girls. And you are the woman who lied to herself, lied to her husband and her girls in a terribly destructive way, and the woman who is struggling to recover and rebuild. You are all three of those women, all at the same time. 

Wishes, some of us in life make horrible choices, and take horrible actions, which cannot be undone. Very often we did not realize the capacity to do such things was in us until we do them. But it was. The woman for 46 years before the affair is not a different woman from the women who chose the affair and so horribly botched the aftermath. Those women were inside her all along. 

For myself, I feel very strongly that when one falls into the deep moral and spirtual hole of addiction--to alcohol, to drugs, or to the sedutive high of illicit emotional intimacy and or sex--the essential facilitator of one's self-destruction is the capacity to lie. It begins, always, with lying to myself first. Lying that my problems are larger or less surmountable than they really are, lying to myself that my resentments justify doing what I "need" to do to anesthatize them. Then when contemplation tips over to actions, lies become the essential facilitator. I know what I want is wrong and self-destructive. I cannot do it in the open becuase it is, actually and objectively, wrong, and I would be ashamed to be known to be doing it. People who love me would see me doing wrong, and intervene, and I would be ashamed.

But I want it. Lies enable me to do it.

It's in this context that learning to be truthful and transparent is so important to me as a betrayer (full disclosure, my personal betrayals were not infidelity but rather hidden substance abuse and mental illness). I want to be a person who no longer betrays myself or others. Confronting my lies, ending them, and even more, confronting relying on lies to manipulate hiw people perceive me and to escape accountability for my choices are essential to recovery of my selfhood. Lies are the mechanism of betrayal. As long as I continue to lie, I am a betrayer in potential, sick in habit and in practice, and not safe to love.

So to go back to your very important question, you are not one woman or the other woman. That's compartmented thinking. It has in it the notion that there are two yous, a good you we can put in the good scale and a bad you we can put in the bad scale. But there never were two yous. There only ever was one. And I am willing to bet that the "good" you, you before the affair, was, inside, a maze of lies and compartments. You say you had terrible self esteem, and never felt you deserved the good things you had. But clearly you didn't represent that to the world. You made a compartment and tucked it away, and showed the world a lie self that less and less matched your inner self. And that habit of lying and falsly representing yourself grew and grew. Until false representation became your go-to coping mechanism. The mechanism which made possible your affair, and, sadly, made possible the even more destructive choices you made after exposeure.

But please listen to me now: have hope. Really, have hope.

Out of this wreckage you have a precious opportunity: an opportunity to live, for the first time in years, maybe decades, authentically. Without compartments. Without lies.

You will not get there overnight. No one overcomes a life-long pattern of lies and self- and other- deception overnight. You get there through reflection, guided by a good counsellor. Through reading. And most of all through accountability. Instead of walling off those bad decisions, you embrace and shoulder the weight of them. You seek out the people you hurt most, show empathy for their pain, and make what amends you can. And as you heal over the years, you can begin to turn your experiences into a source of compassion and empathy for others, and modeling for them how to change and recover.

Its a paradox, Wishes-- that the only road to no longer being the bad you is to accept that you always were only you. To accept that though your bad choices have whys and origins deep in your life's experience--things essential to understand and well worth rooting out--that you are ever and still responsible for them, that they did not come from outside you and were not done by someone else. 

You are Wishes. And today, and every day going forward, you choose and show who Wishes is. You have daughters who will always love you, who desperately need to see you model love, integrity, authenticity. You have people and will have people in your life, and you choose what role you play: you can bring authenticity and integrity and empathy to them, or show them a false self.

Work on you, Wishes. Work on the lies, the compartments, and the walls. Work daily on living with integrity, on hinesty to yourself about yourself, and then toward others. Do this, and what will be will be, and it will be ok, becuase you met it with integrity and compassion for others.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> The Bible tells us that if we go before God fully contrite, and pray fervently for the deepest desire of our heart, that God will grant it if it is in keeping with his will.
> 
> So Wishes, I say go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help you become a safe partner again, and to guide your husband back to you.



This is my favorite post on TAM ever.


----------



## bandit.45

Blossom Leigh said:


> This is my favorite post on TAM ever.


Not bad for the worst Christian on the planet.....


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> Not bad for the worst Christian on the planet.....


Lol... Trust me, you are not the worst Christian ever


----------



## Wishes

Blossom Leigh said:


> This is my favorite post on TAM ever.


How about? "Speak the truth in love."


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## Blossom Leigh

Wishes said:


> How about? "Speak the truth in love."


Something I advocate.

Why do you ask?


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## Wishes

Blossom Leigh said:


> Something I advocate.
> 
> Why do you ask?


I had an employee once who constantly said distasteful things about people. When I would call him on it, his reply always was, "Well, it's the truth ain't it." He did not use truth to help, he used it to hurt and he did a lot of damage to a lot of people. 
It is my belief that truth can be an awful thing in the hands of the wrong person. 
No reflection on you Blossom Leigh, I have read every available post you have written and it has been most helpful.


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## Wishes

Blossom Leigh said:


> Something I advocate.
> 
> Why do you ask?


BUT, for you to say that,"... I should go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help (me) become a safe partner again, and to guide (my) husband back to y(me)," is your favorite post of all time on TAM seems somewhat beneath who I believe you are.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wishes said:


> I had an employee once who constantly said distasteful things about people. When I would call him on it, his reply always was, "Well, it's the truth ain't it." He did not use truth to help, he used it to hurt and he did a lot of damage to a lot of people.
> It is my belief that truth can be an awful thing in the hands of the wrong person.
> No reflection on you Blossom Leigh, I have read every available post you have written and it has been most helpful.


I am very grateful to have helped. 

Thank you for sharing.


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> I had an employee once who constantly said distasteful things about people. When I would call him on it, his reply always was, "Well, it's the truth ain't it." He did not use truth to help, he used it to hurt and he did a lot of damage to a lot of people.
> It is my belief that truth can be an awful thing in the hands of the wrong person.
> No reflection on you Blossom Leigh, I have read every available post you have written and it has been most helpful.


It is true that truth in the wrong hands is deadly. However, I believe the absence and omission of truth is catastrophic. if we are withholding truth in the false belief that we are protecting someone, when the truth finally does come out, the aftermath is worse than if we had just told the truth in the beginning. Deception never protects, it only projects devastation.


----------



## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> It is true that truth in the wrong hands is deadly. However, I believe the absence and omission of truth is catastrophic. if we are withholding truth in the false belief that we are protecting someone, when the truth finally does come out, the aftermath is worse than if we had just told the truth in the beginning. Deception never protects, it only projects devastation.


I disagree. I believe the absence and omission of truth “can be catastrophic,” but I also believe that the admission of truth can also be catastrophic. Every day we make decisions with the truth, whether to reveal or conceal. Revealing can be just as catastrophic as concealing; depending on the circumstances. Truth-telling is the established prima facie norm for interactions between human beings, but there are exceptions and there are also times we should just keep our mouths shut. Using the truth to wound and inflict pain on another human being is perhaps one of them. 




Deception? I did not mention.


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## Evinrude58

So wishes,

Have you been making lots of judgements in the past few years about which truths are catastrophic, and which would be strictly hurtful, etc.?
I suspect your use of "truth" is what led to your problem. 

What the jerk at work was saying was just cherry picking people's imperfections in order to hurt them. The "truth" would be that he was trying to find their flaws and expose them to make himself less miserable about his own insecurity.

But hiding the truth, or warping it to fit our own needs or desires, is almost always a destructive thing.

A couple of questions: do you think your husband could live a happier life with you in it? Why do you think so?

If the truth is a yes, maybe you have a chance if reconciliation is ever offered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wishes

Evinrude58 said:


> So wishes,
> 
> Have you been making lots of judgements in the past few years about which truths are catastrophic, and which would be strictly hurtful, etc.?
> I suspect your use of "truth" is what led to your problem.
> 
> What the jerk at work was saying was just cherry picking people's imperfections in order to hurt them. The "truth" would be that he was trying to find their flaws and expose them to make himself less miserable about his own insecurity.
> 
> But hiding the truth, or warping it to fit our own needs or desires, is almost always a destructive thing.
> 
> A couple of questions: do you think your husband could live a happier life with you in it? Why do you think so?
> 
> If the truth is a yes, maybe you have a chance if reconciliation is ever offered.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Evinrude58*
I appreciate your question, but, it is based on an assumption of truth. Let me ask you, "Do you assume that everything you read on the SI post to be true?" If so, "Why?" 

My use of truth "did not" lead me to this problem. Most of the things I said to my husband, I would say again, although I would couch them more diplomatically.


----------



## Wishes

Evinrude58 said:


> So wishes,
> 
> Have you been making lots of judgements in the past few years about which truths are catastrophic, and which would be strictly hurtful, etc.?
> I suspect your use of "truth" is what led to your problem.
> 
> What the jerk at work was saying was just cherry picking people's imperfections in order to hurt them. The "truth" would be that he was trying to find their flaws and expose them to make himself less miserable about his own insecurity.
> 
> But hiding the truth, or warping it to fit our own needs or desires, is almost always a destructive thing.
> 
> A couple of questions: do you think your husband could live a happier life with you in it? Why do you think so?
> 
> If the truth is a yes, maybe you have a chance if reconciliation is ever offered.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Evinrude58*

I did not warp the truth to fit my needs, I spoke the truth, just not in love. I could have handled the truth differently and perhaps we would still be together today.

And your question. "Could my husband live a happier life with me in it?"
Of course I want to say yes, however, I do not know. I am still very much in his life in a business sense, however, we make a point not to be alone in a room. He can't be around me right now and I understand and do not push it.


----------



## owl6118

Would it change things if we spoke of living with integrity rather than truth telling?


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> I disagree. I believe the absence and omission of truth “can be catastrophic,” but I also believe that the admission of truth can also be catastrophic. Every day we make decisions with the truth, whether to reveal or conceal. Revealing can be just as catastrophic as concealing; depending on the circumstances. Truth-telling is the established prima facie norm for interactions between human beings, but there are exceptions and there are also times we should just keep our mouths shut. Using the truth to wound and inflict pain on another human being is perhaps one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deception? I did not mention.


Yes. But also finding out the truth when was lied to is very very devastating. Your own situation can present that. And wouldn't you say a lie is done with the intent of deception?


----------



## Wishes

owl6118 said:


> Would it change things if we spoke of living with integrity rather than truth telling?


*owl6118 * ...how dare you bring a gun to a knife fight, however, if Bandit can quote scripture so can I. This is what the Bible says about our integrity:

"“They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Real integrity is a rare commodity these days and hard to find


----------



## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> Yes. But also finding out the truth when was lied to is very very devastating. Your own situation can present that. And wouldn't you say a lie is done with the intent of deception?


YES, a thousand times YES.


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> I disagree. I believe the absence and omission of truth “can be catastrophic,” but I also believe that the admission of truth can also be catastrophic. Every day we make decisions with the truth, whether to reveal or conceal. Revealing can be just as catastrophic as concealing; depending on the circumstances. Truth-telling is the established prima facie norm for interactions between human beings, but there are exceptions and there are also times we should just keep our mouths shut. Using the truth to wound and inflict pain on another human being is perhaps one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deception? I did not mention.


Using the truth with the intent to harm is not a good thing, however having the truth is a good thing.Whether it was put out with mal intent takes nothing away from it being the truth. To withhold and lie is even more devastating. The bible that was mentioned has many good things about truth. Yet it condemns lies and speaks expressly of punishments for them, while it speaks great rewards for the truth. The truth may hurt, but it's a hurt that heals in the long run. Omitting it is the same as lying and presents the person omitting it as deceptive and cunning.


----------



## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> Using the truth with the intent to harm is not a good thing, however having the truth is a good thing.Whether it was put out with mal intent takes nothing away from it being the truth. To withhold and lie is even more devastating. The bible that was mentioned has many good things about truth. Yet it condemns lies and speaks expressly of punishments for them, while it speaks great rewards for the truth. The truth may hurt, but it's a hurt that heals in the long run. Omitting it is the same as lying and presents the person omitting it as deceptive and cunning.


there are many places that the Bible condones a lie and even God is said to have sent a "strong delusion so that they would believe a lie."


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## Evinrude58

Let's not infer that God lies. He doesn't. 

Wishes, accept that your lies brought your husband great pain. Pain you don't understand.

What is your plan for the future?
Are you going to try to win your husband back? If so, how?
Are you going to work on what went wrong with you and start dating?
If your husband moves on, will you move on as well?

Do you think you may be unfaithful again if you choose to remarry?
If yes, why. If not, why?

Last of all, have you forgiven yourself? If not, you should. Especially if you feel you know where you messed up and why/how you wouldn't ever again. 

I think that's the first thing to do before you can heal.
I do believe there is more than one person you can be happy with.
And you're an older, and hopefully wiser person than you once were. You may have what you once had again, and not take for granted how special it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> there are many places that the Bible condones a lie and even God is said to have sent a "strong delusion so that they would believe a lie."


Yes. However those lies or delusions had the intent of a lesson within them. You know that there is a difference in His intent with those delusions and the ones we often tell or delude. 
In that passage He sent strong delusion because they were told the truth and they rejected it. So He let them believe what they wanted and made it true for those who rejected His truth. It's contextual.


----------



## Wishes

Evinrude58 said:


> Let's not infer that God lies. He doesn't.
> 
> Wishes, accept that your lies brought your husband great pain. Pain you don't understand.
> 
> What is your plan for the future?
> Are you going to try to win your husband back? If so, how?
> Are you going to work on what went wrong with you and start dating?
> If your husband moves on, will you move on as well?
> 
> Do you think you may be unfaithful again if you choose to remarry?
> If yes, why. If not, why?
> 
> Last of all, have you forgiven yourself? If not, you should. Especially if you feel you know where you messed up and why/how you wouldn't ever again.
> 
> I think that's the first thing to do before you can heal.
> I do believe there is more than one person you can be happy with.
> And you're an older, and hopefully wiser person than you once were. You may have what you once had again, and not take for granted how special it was.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed, God does not lie. My inference is that there are times in the Bible where lying, although not necessarily condoned, was not condemned. God is Love, we are not. God is Light, we are not. God is The Way, we are not. God is Truth, we are not.

In saying my lies brought my husband great pain, would you explain what you mean? Are you referring to what has been oft quoted from the SI thread? Or, are you referring to what I have written in this thread?

No, I have not forgiven myself and I believe it is something I will live with. Perhaps I can forgive myself once my ex has forgiven me, and by that, I do not mean, once he has taken me back. He is well established in a new relationship now and hopefully that helps him heal.

I have continued my responsibilities at our company and repaired a lot of things that were broken, and I have done this for him. Not to get him back, but to take that stress from him.
His new girl gets to take pot shots at me all day long and hopefully that allows her to heal.


----------



## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> Yes. However those lies or delusions had the intent of a lesson within them.* You know that there is a difference in His intent with those delusions and the ones we often tell or delude.
> *In that passage He sent strong delusion because they were told the truth and they rejected it. So He let them believe what they wanted and made it true for those who rejected His truth. It's contextual.



The highlighted is my point. We went around in circles and agreed all along.


----------



## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> Yes. However those lies or delusions had the intent of a lesson within them. You know that there is a difference in His intent with those delusions and the ones we often tell or delude.
> In that passage He sent strong delusion because they were told the truth and they rejected it. So He let them believe what they wanted and made it true for those who rejected His truth. It's contextual.



I think that if you look closely at history, you will agree to many circumstances where lying was not only morally permissible but morally mandated.

The Devil may be the father of lies, but there is also, "a truth which is of Satan." For example, when we pass along a truth that injures someone, we are not excused simply because it is true. The Bible speaks of the Truth as being a weapon and we need to be very careful as to how we use it.

"While the Bible never condones lying for the sake of lying, it does condone lying in order to preserve a higher moral imperative. For example, Rahab purposed to deceive (the lesser moral law) in order to preserve the lives of two Jewish spies (the higher moral law). Likewise, a Christian father today should not hesitate to lie in order to protect his wife and daughters from the imminent threat of rape or murder

A teacher asks a child in front of the class whether it is true that his father often comes home drunk. It is true, but the child denies it. The child is not wrong to lie. It is the teacher who is at fault here rather than the child by abusing the relationship and the expectation that the truth be told within that relationship. The teacher exploits the obligation to tell the truth to force the student to reveal his father's weakness in front of the class and to violate his covenanted identity.


----------



## Marc878

At this time what's done is done. It's a tough thing to do but you both need a future. Put the past in the past where it belongs, forgive yourself and become a wiser better person for the rest of your life.

Don't expect anything more from this. No friendship, etc. there is no future here.

To much baggage/damage to even dwell on this now.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Proverbs 6:16-19, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

I'm not inferring my innocence. Just some clarification for you.


----------



## Wishes

2ntnuf said:


> Proverbs 6:16-19, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, *An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief*, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."
> 
> I'm not inferring my innocence. Just some clarification for you.


are you referring to, "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief...?"


----------



## Wishes

2ntnuf said:


> Proverbs 6:16-19, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, *An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief*, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."
> 
> I'm not inferring my innocence. Just some clarification for you.


are you referring to, "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief...?"

I have to board for my flight. I will say this. I was hoping the furor from the SI thread would have died down by now. You have never given me the opportunity to speak and have made it very difficult to do so because of "feet that be swift in running to mischief," between TAM and SI. 
I will say again, most of the dialogue that took place between myself and my husband, I would do again; some I wouldn't. My point is this, if you intend on continuing to condemn me for what you read on SI thread, then, there is no help to be found here.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Wishes said:


> are you referring to, "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief...?"


No I didn't mean to be accusatory, though I can understand how you might believe anyone is. 

I was simply posting what I found about how God feels about lying and along with that came some other things. None of them directly referred to you, but just simply to explain that God really does hate lying and does not like it in any form. 

He considers lying an abomination, which is strong language. Take what you want from that. I'm not throwing stones, just clarifying.


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> I think that if you look closely at history, you will agree to many circumstances where lying was not only morally permissible but morally mandated.
> 
> The Devil may be the father of lies, but there is also, "a truth which is of Satan." For example, when we pass along a truth that injures someone, we are not excused simply because it is true. The Bible speaks of the Truth as being a weapon and we need to be very careful as to how we use it.
> 
> "While the Bible never condones lying for the sake of lying, it does condone lying in order to preserve a higher moral imperative. For example, Rahab purposed to deceive (the lesser moral law) in order to preserve the lives of two Jewish spies (the higher moral law). Likewise, a Christian father today should not hesitate to lie in order to protect his wife and daughters from the imminent threat of rape or murder
> 
> A teacher asks a child in front of the class whether it is true that his father often comes home drunk. It is true, but the child denies it. The child is not wrong to lie. It is the teacher who is at fault here rather than the child by abusing the relationship and the expectation that the truth be told within that relationship. The teacher exploits the obligation to tell the truth to force the student to reveal his father's weakness in front of the class and to violate his covenanted identity.


Then why would God make one of the commandments
thou shalt not lie ?

That child is wrong for lying. He can simply not answer the question

There is no excuse for lying once you know the truth no matter how eloquent you paint it God judges it and says all liars will have there part in Hades.

He even goes as far to say He hates liars. So I still do not agree with you on that


----------



## bandit.45

Wishes said:


> BUT, for you to say that,"... I should go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help (me) become a safe partner again, and to guide (my) husband back to y(me)," is your favorite post of all time on TAM seems somewhat beneath who I believe you are.


Nice backhand. I wish you would have told me directly that you took issue with my post instead of insulting a good person who is trying to help you. 

Okay the knee pad part was dumb, but I wasn't being facetious about the prayer part. I have heard that it does work. And I have enough faith and belief left to believe that prayer can restore marriages. 

Oh, and I have been one of the people here supporting you by the way. 

I'll stay off your thread.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Wishes said:


> are you referring to, "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief...?"
> 
> I have to board for my flight. I will say this. I was hoping the furor from the SI thread would have died down by now. You have never given me the opportunity to speak and have made it very difficult to do so because of "feet that be swift in running to mischief," between TAM and SI.
> I will say again, most of the dialogue that took place between myself and my husband, I would do again; some I wouldn't. My point is this, if you intend on continuing to condemn me for what you read on SI thread, then, there is no help to be found here.


Never read the whole thing.

I guess this "you" is plural and in a general sense.

What I don't understand, and have never posted is, why would any sane person want to go back to a life that was so miserable or unhappy, that they felt compelled to make derogatory comments to a spouse they are supposed to love? What would be the purpose of trying to go back there, when the only way to feel better was to find someone else to love? 

What it reads like to me is you were very angry. You wanted to hurt him. You also wanted other things for yourself and found them in an affair partner. 

So, okay. What would the reason be for wanting to go back to all that? Why would you want to work so hard on yourself to change? Can you really make a lasting change in yourself? Is it possible for anyone?

Yes, I know there are those here that have reconciled and many more, but I believe there was something that they each needed and didn't think they could find in anyone else. I think they both realized they had poorer choices elsewhere and accepted their fates. 

Not sure I understand any of that. I am not looking for any responses to those questions. 

I hope you find a way to get some peace in your life.


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> are you referring to, "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief...?"
> 
> I have to board for my flight. I will say this. I was hoping the furor from the SI thread would have died down by now. You have never given me the opportunity to speak and have made it very difficult to do so because of "feet that be swift in running to mischief," between TAM and SI.
> I will say again, most of the dialogue that took place between myself and my husband, I would do again; some I wouldn't. My point is this, if you intend on continuing to condemn me for what you read on SI thread, then, there is no help to be found here.


That dialogue is partly why you find yourself in the situation you are now. I will say that your lies is why you find yourself divorced. It is funny that even now you try to place a cloud over what was said on SI. That is your ex husband's truth as he sees it and you lightly insinuate that it is somewhat diluted. You may not post that directly but you do imply it. If you pulled this kind of mental gymnastics with your ex after he confronted you..I see why he went the route he did


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wishes said:


> BUT, for you to say that,"... I should go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help (me) become a safe partner again, and to guide (my) husband back to y(me)," is your favorite post of all time on TAM seems somewhat beneath who I believe you are.


I did not see this comment by you earlier. I didn't take his comment to you as a slam on you, but as very supportive of you. You misjudged my comment. Just so you know.


----------



## Evinrude58

It seems like with all these questions about truth and such, there is some 
Major obfuscation going on here.
Wishes, if the stuff on so was not true, what is? What's your version of the truth?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Blossom Leigh said:


> I did not see this comment by you earlier. I didn't take his comment to you as a slam on you, but as very supportive of you. You misjudged my comment. Just so you know.


I'm beginning to realize that she misjudges a lot of things.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

I think you TAM folks are purposely threadjacking with all your holier than thou pronouncements and judgements.

Hey here's an idea - let's talk about what's on TAM and not what's on another site. And let's let Wishes try to get help rather than throwing the bible at each other. These are thinly veiled attempts to judge and convic OP.


----------



## VFW

*Wishes:* I had an employee once who constantly said distasteful things about people. When I would call him on it, his reply always was, "Well, it's the truth ain't it." He did not use truth to help, he used it to hurt and he did a lot of damage to a lot of people. It is my belief that truth can be an awful thing in the hands of the wrong person. 

I wholeheartedly agree. If your wife asks you “honey do these pants make my butt look big”? The answer to that question is an emphatic no, I don’t care if she is knocking lamps over with that badonkadonk, the answer is no. I am firmly convinced that God would never hold that against a fellow. 

There are many reasons that discretion is the better part of valor. I find that most people that want to be brutally honest, don’t really appreciate when that light is turn on themselves. Likewise infidelity is only one of a long list of things that people do that they should not have done. You have chosen to come to this site and bear yourself, while other have chosen to throw stones. You have already stated that you know what you have done is wrong, enough said. I challenge you instead to consider the entire relationship and look for things that you could have done better for the sake of the next relationship.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> Nice backhand. I wish you would have told me directly that you took issue with my post instead of insulting a good person who is trying to help you.
> 
> Okay the knee pad part was dumb, but I wasn't being facetious about the prayer part. I have heard that it does work. And I have enough faith and belief left to believe that prayer can restore marriages.
> 
> Oh, and I have been one of the people here supporting you by the way.
> 
> I'll stay off your thread.


It ok. She may not want my help. And thats ok.

I think her pain is high. Its going to take a good long while before she's ready to receive help without the gut reflex to self protect, hypercontrol, vigilance. Her distrust is high. Her past groomed her to be. Its why we are seeing these type of responses. I'll be available if she wants me to. No worries if she doesnt.


----------



## cledus_snow

that was intense. the crossposting between sites was overwhelming. 


listen, if you're gonna seek advice from an open forum, please be aware that there are plenty of internet sleuths that can put "2-and-2" together. i've seen it happen before with the same "other" site being involved. 

what i'm saying is, please don't come on these forums/sites without being aware of the risks concerning venting your "situations" for anyone to chime in on. take what you need and leave the rest. 

gotta have a thick skin, though... especially when it concerns infidelity issues.


----------



## TaDor

bandit.45 said:


> Not bad for the worst Christian on the planet.....


I'm sure there are easily much worse Christians.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

All though it's kind of entertaining watching you all try to out quote the other with bible verses, just remember that it is a book.

A book that was penned by men, for men. Though some of it most likely has accurate historical locations and events, much of it is an interpretation. By the time even the first edition had been inked, the original orators had long since passed.

Leaving the next generation to relay the tale. And just like Today, back then, everyone tended to put their own little spin on how they'd originally heard it told to them.

As you've probably figured out, I'm not a religious person. I however do hold those that believe and practice what they preach in higher regard then what you would probably expect from a "non-believer". 

It's strange to watch people that seem to hold the bible in such high regard, throwing its verses at each other like they were worded darts.

Let ye with no sin throw the first dart...* I mean stone.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Hey Wishes. I want to apologize. I really didn't have any clue you were being beaten up when I posted that. I actually did come in thinking it was some discussion rather than a slug fest. I'd never have posted a thing, if I'd realized that. 

I had unsubscribed from this thread a long time ago, just for the very purpose of not being a part of bashing you, but it looks like I unintentionally became a part of the mob. 

I will again unsubscribe. 

Again, I'm sorry.


----------



## farsidejunky

Spin, Wishes. It all sounds like spin.

Just own it. Don't own it with a "yeah, but...".

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Dyokemm

Interesting debate on truth here recently.

I completely agree that truth can be a terrible weapon when wielded with the intent to injure others.

But a life of lies and hidden deceptions is far worse IMO.

Lies are always more damaging than the truth....and I'm not speaking here of the little 'white lies' such as 'Honey does this make me look fat?' 'No dear'....I'm talking about the lies and deceptions about life altering, fundamental aspects of a person's existence.

The real trick comes in that word 'intent' when we disclose a truth, even a terrible one, to another human being.

Unnecessary cruelty should be avoided....but that does not mean that truths that are uncomfortable should be swept under the rug because they might make another sad or hurt.

Sometimes, those are the truths that most have to be confronted, even if there is pain.


----------



## Marduk

eric1 said:


> I have a tough time understanding how it happens as well. It's part of why I like coming here - deep down we're all pretty messed up.
> 
> But in general I agree with you. Someone who loves you doesn't do the things that Wishes did. We are our actions and D-Day may have been the action that taught her some important lessons. For true R to occur not only do you need the lightning in the bottle of a BS who can truly forgive but you need the wayward to really discover something in themselves. Like something needs to click and a brand new light shining down from the heavens discovery.
> 
> I'm pessimistic that many marriages can be saved even with two 'willing' participants. In this case DoneGone has probably done her a tremendous kindness and not kept her dangling from a rope.


Have you ever heard of the Stanford Prison Experiment?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

It's basically an experiment where they took two groups of people and randomly assigned them roles as prisoner and guard, to see what happened.

Within six days it had to be stopped, because the guards had started psychologically torturing the prisoners, and the prisoners had grown to tolerate it.

What does that have to do with cheating?

Situational Attribution. Which is a fancy term that basically means that a person's situation can determine their behaviour as much, or more than their personality.

And if their situation is one where they have authority, control, and superiority over another, they'll start to act on it. Which is basically what an affair is -- I have the affection, support, and sexual access to two people and you have partial access to one. Therefore, I get to pick what I want and am in a superior position to my betrayed spouse.

Therefore, I'm in charge and you aren't. And I must be superior to you, because I'm in this situation, and you must be inferior.

Queue the psychological torture...

Humans are strange.


----------



## Vulcan2013

I'd like to hear your side, Wishes. Sorry this thread was such a train wreck. Glad it's quieted down.


----------



## Marduk

Oh, BTW Wishes my last post wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at Eric's question.


----------



## CHGUY

He will never ever look at you the same... My wife does not understand this, but if he started thinking clearly, he will most definitely never ever see you the same. You may tell him you are sorry and will never ever do it again. You can tell him you love him and devout your only love to him. But he might see this the same as the original betrayal that you gave him. It was not spur of the moment you cheated on him, that makes the trust and betrayal worse. He saw that your happiness in the time of the betrayal seems out of place for the affair to happen. Everything you did, do and say he will never trust ever again. I think it hurts more to be on the side of being cheated on, than the cheater getting caught and reality of the destruction catches up. Imagine your pain now, think of a number and multiply that, then you are getting closer to the pain he had/has. He might never knock on your door, so embrace yourself a life without him.


----------



## NewPhoenix5

Wishes said:


> Why did I write all this? Because I want my husband back and I will wait for him. What else can I do. I have done a lot of reading in this forum and others and *it seems that in most cases, eventually the BS will give the marriage or relationship another chance.* My now XH said he could make no promises. that the divorce is something he had to do for now and that who knows what the future might hold. He told me to live my life and that one day he might be knocking on my door; or not.
> ...etc...
> Please, try not to bash me. I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. I am asking for something constructive to help me either, move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely. I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but most cases aren't like yours or Edith's. 

As the shock of the adultery fades, the foundation of the affair remains--the lies. When the astonishment, the pain, and the anger are spent, after the mind tires of the endless mind movies of the wife and affair partner, the lies at the heart of the betrayal linger. 

Why did she lie to me at my face to continue on with the affair for just another month, another week, another day... she was addicted to the way in which he made her feel. Alive, escaped, free, unbound, free from her moorings... 

To receive that text from someone who wanted her... she would do anything to get that little "bing" to come from her phone. The feeling of anticipation as she arrived at her office... would there be an email describing his weekend, his thoughts, his love for her? YES! It was there! Nevermind the consequences, she could keep them apart and she could manage it...

When one is addicted they will give up anything and everything.

I went to a church group yesterday and someone gave a "faithshare"... He was a good young man with what he described was a wonderful angel of a wife who gave him two dear children. But he had a drug habit and he could not give it up. She gave him chance after chance to clean himself up, only to fail again and again. She divorced him a few months ago and he was devastated. He gave up his precious family for one more high, one more "bing" from the iphone...

I asked him afterwards in front of the group, "Would you be here tonight, with contrition and remorse, had she not divorced you?"

He answered after a long pause, "No, I would not. The loss of her was the only thing that could have stopped me. Nothing else matters now, but to get them back, if only I can. Where I work, the drugs are all around me. These people are those that did hard time for hard crimes and I can't avoid seeing it. But the thought of doing it again is so repulsive to me, I can only think of her."

The passion and intensity of his statement made me think of you and Edith. Do you have it? Do you think of cheating again and are you filled with revulsion, not of yourself or your past, but of the inherent wrongness of the act and the hurt it bestows upon those you love?

I do believe I am seeing it some in you.

Wishes, good luck on your journey. I pray that you find a good and happy place to call home. And yes, I do think there is always hope.


----------



## MEM2020

Wishes,
You ought to avoid this type discussion at all costs with your ex. If you do speak to him in future, this type of conversation will make things worse. 

Because you gas lighted him. That's not just lying, it's a type of lying causes someone to question their own judgement, maybe even sanity. 

And long as the bible is, there are no examples of gas lighting portrayed in a 'justifiable' light. 





Wishes said:


> Agreed, God does not lie. My inference is that there are times in the Bible where lying, although not necessarily condoned, was not condemned. God is Love, we are not. God is Light, we are not. God is The Way, we are not. God is Truth, we are not.
> 
> In saying my lies brought my husband great pain, would you explain what you mean? Are you referring to what has been oft quoted from the SI thread? Or, are you referring to what I have written in this thread?
> 
> No, I have not forgiven myself and I believe it is something I will live with. Perhaps I can forgive myself once my ex has forgiven me, and by that, I do not mean, once he has taken me back. He is well established in a new relationship now and hopefully that helps him heal.
> 
> I have continued my responsibilities at our company and repaired a lot of things that were broken, and I have done this for him. Not to get him back, but to take that stress from him.
> His new girl gets to take pot shots at me all day long and hopefully that allows her to heal.


----------



## Marielle

Hi Wishes,

I have been following your story with a heavy heart, and I am sorry for the hell you and your ex-husband have been through. As you say, there's nothing I could say that you don't already know. But I have grown to care for you, your husband, and your girls, and would like to offer you my support and sympathy during a very painful time. 

Please feel free to PM me if you need someone to talk to or just to vent and cry. You are a valuable and worthwhile person. Please take care of yourself.


----------



## Doc Who

Wishes,

How about instead of speaking in nebulous generalities of "truth" and "lies" and that not everything in the SI thread is accurate, why don't you tell your side of the story? I hope you can see that your responses read as obfuscation - just enough in them to infer that DoneGone has blame in your affair, but nothing concrete enough to assess. That somehow what you told the OM and how you used your daughters to manipulate DoneGone was justified, but nothing concrete enough to provide real understanding.

If you have something to say about DoneGone's thread - please actually say it. Otherwise, telling people who accept it as factual representation of what happened that they are essentially idiots is not productive.

Electrons are essentially free and clearly you are a talented writer. I for one encourage you to tell your side of the story. Maybe your healing could start there?


----------



## Maxo

I was under the impression that the conversation with the OM was verbatim.


----------



## JimmyCrackCorn

Maxo said:


> I was under the impression that the conversation with the OM was verbatim.


Correct. According to DoneGone, he transcribed a series of e-mails between Wishes and OM that were sent just after the "fast food restaurant" incident.


----------



## jim123

Wishes,

The fact he left a window open does mean a lot. Most men do not.

Keep posting, keep searching. When you hit 30 posts you need to look up a poster Tears. It is in the private section. She won him back.

Continue to work on you and keep letting him know what you are doing.

He does love you.


----------



## Maxo

I was mystified by the choice of the OM in this case. Based on your writing and the exchange between you two re your husband being an idiot, it seems there must have been a minimum of 30 or so IQ points seperating you.?what was the attraction?


----------



## CoolItMan

Maxo said:


> I was mystified by the choice of the OM in this case. Based on your writing and the exchange between you two re your husband being an idiot, it seems there must have been a minimum of 30 or so IQ points seperating you.?what was the attraction?


You clearly read the texts.. Then you should know.

The attraction was **** size.


----------



## GusPolinski

MEM11363 said:


> Wishes,
> You ought to avoid this type discussion at all costs with your ex. If you do speak to him in future, this type of conversation will make things worse.
> 
> Because you gas lighted him. That's not just lying, it's a type of lying causes someone to question their own judgement, maybe even sanity.
> 
> And long as the bible is, there are no examples of gas lighting portrayed in a 'justifiable' light.


Word.



GusPolinski said:


> *He takes note of her excessive texting and voices his concerns; they're dismissed w/ the usual "He's just a friend..." bit.
> 
> He catches her sexting and again confronts -- for this he's treated to the ol' "You're controlling/crazy/insecure!"*
> 
> He catches her in a PA and (as he says himself w/ the title of his thread) NOW she's sorry?
> 
> What's _that_ worth? If you want to know, ask her ex... he did, after all, divorce her.


----------



## Maxo

CoolItMan said:


> You clearly read the texts.. Then you should know.
> 
> The attraction was **** size.


 I saw that but did not think his claim,even if true, was all that impressive.


----------



## CoolItMan

Maxo said:


> I saw that but did not think his claim,even if true, was all that impressive.


Well, for Western women (White women mainly for many reasons) **** size is extremely important to long-term fidelity.

This guy was 7 inches. The next guy woulda been bigger, etc.

There has been statistics that show the larger a mans **** the less likely he is to have experienced infidelity.

So yeah. She just started the chase, but by no means was she finished.


----------



## weltschmerz

CoolItMan said:


> Well, for Western women (White women mainly for many reasons) **** size is extremely important to long-term fidelity.
> 
> This guy was 7 inches. The next guy woulda been bigger, etc.
> 
> There has been statistics that show the larger a mans **** the less likely he is to have experienced infidelity.
> 
> So yeah. She just started the chase, but by no means was she finished.


I've read a rather contradictory article which states that women go for men with smaller penises for long term and bigger ones for affairs. Rather fascinating all these studies.


----------



## pappygrecko

Oh the measuring police is here everybody get your tape measures ready
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CoolItMan

weltschmerz said:


> I've read a rather contradictory article which states that women go for men with smaller penises for long term and bigger ones for affairs. Rather fascinating all these studies.


That's exactly my point. The smaller a mans penis the more likely his wife is to cheat on him, most of the time with a man with a bigger penis.

I bet if you took 1000 husbands with a 6 incher or less and 1000 husbands with an 8 to 7 incher the amount of those cheated will be astronomically higher in the 6inch or less husbands by around 80%.

Those are the numbers statistics bare out. 

White Males with a penis size between 6 to 4 have an 90% chance of experiencing infidelity.

And this is only really applicable toward a specific group, though.

And this is what happened here. This woman for all intents and purposes was happy with a good husband. 

But a man with a bigger **** came along and the chase started.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

I think this thread should be shut down


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Cooltman I hope you realize you're full of poop


----------



## 3putt

TheTruthHurts said:


> Cooltman I hope you realize you're full of poop


He's just a racist troll. His first time here was under the name Resistance.


----------



## Wishes

Originally Posted by *GusPolinski *

*He takes note of her excessive texting and voices his concerns; they're dismissed w/ the usual "He's just a friend..." bit.
He catches her sexting and again confronts -- for this he's treated to the ol' "You're controlling/crazy/insecure!"
He catches her in a PA and (as he says himself w/ the title of his thread) NOW she's sorry?
What's that worth? If you want to know, ask her ex... he did, after all, divorce her.*

Brilliant deductions Sherlock. The fact that you quote this twice, as far as I am concerned, is just you doing your "...bit..." No matter how many times you repeat a lie, does not make it true, or does it. Wasn't it Lenin who said, "A lie told often enough becomes the truth." But, you're just doing your song and dance, who cares about the truth, as long as you get a few laughs and likes along the way. Your allopathic approach diminishes me and dilutes the truth and gains you disciples. I understand now, the disciples are preeminent.

My suggestion would be for many of you to apply to yourselves the advice that so many of you liked so well,

*"The Bible tells us that if we go before God fully contrite, and pray fervently for the deepest desire of our heart, that God will grant it if it is in keeping with his will."

So... I say go to Home Depot and buy some of those comfy knee pads and spend the next six months kneeling on the floor in deep prayer every day, asking God to help you become a safe (poster) again, and to guide your (heart) back to you."*

I hope I also get a lot of likes for this. It seems to play well.

Gus, in your popularly appraised post you said,

* “He takes note of her excessive texting and voices his concerns; they're dismissed w/ the usual "He's just a friend..." bit.”” * 

Let me give you more to taunt, tease and laugh at me with.
Although I had worked closely with this man for many, many years, when BH noticed I was texting more than normal, he shut it down immediately and demanded a full, detailed explanation as to why I was interested in texting “another man.” My explanation was honest and truthful. This was not “just” another man, this was a close personal friend. I was going through a very difficult situation at the time and he was there for me.

I was in charge of NYD in our company which required frequent travel to the West Coast where I would collaborate with the development team. This process was quite unpredictable, unstructured and oft-times chaotic which cultivated a certain amount or comradery between team members. We consulted much, before, during and after these trips in order to manage the NPD process whereby technical solutions had to be developed iteratively to solve given problems at every stage of the process. One particular member of my team, I have known for more than 28 years. Over that period of time, not only had we developed a close working relationship but an honest, healthy friendship as well. I affectionately referred to him as my surrogate father. 

All was well. This was never an issue in my marital relationship with my husband. Several years ago, however, after an extremely successful launch of a new product, this friend and I began exchanging text messages and as the product continued to exceed all expectations, we began to communicate much through email and text messaging. My husband did not approve of my texting another man when it did not concern business. We argued much over this, till finally, I agreed to end the personnel friendship and limit our communications to business.

So, all this to say this: your saying I dismissed this with a “he’s just a friend…bit” is not the truth. I did not dismiss this. I was extremely agitated. I did (do) think ex was being unreasonable, controlling and jealous and told him so. This man was more of a father to me than was my biological father and 30 years my senior. After a lot of fuss and confusion, I obeyed my husband, ended the friendship, and I was deeply hurt.

Sometime later, I find out that my husband had taken it a step further and forced this person out of the company. Now, I was stunned and my husband absolutely felt justified in what he had done and indicated no remorse. Quite the contrary, he insisted that it was my blurring the boundaries between business and work that created this chain of events.

Now, I am sure you are going to do your, “well, you should have kept it simply business…bit.” For over 20 years when on the West Coast I stayed in this man’s home. His wife was and still is one of my best friends. I am the Godmother of their children and the first thing I did after being divorced was to convince him to come back to work for me.

You people, who are so apt at traveling from forum to forum, thread to thread, having everything figured out, before reading a damn word, I am sure will punch holes and find fault with this. You are your problem and none of my own.

Gus, as to my, “….just a friend bit…” You are mighty right, but also wrong. He is a friend, but not just a friend, he is a great friend and I am very sorry for what my ex-husband put him through. He did him a great injustice and I was wrong in acceding to it.


----------



## straightshooter

Cooltman,

It does not matter if you are a troll or not, you are an IDIOT either way so why don't you take your big black **** if you can get it out of your hand and chase some white Western woman off a high building.

Now that that is addressed.

Wishes,

Someone suggested you post your side of the story instead of everyone just hearing DG's. 

To me, the infidelity was one thing. You did it because you wanted to period, end of story, and you are not the first and will not be the last.

I think what got a lot of folks fired up and your husband, was the gas lighting, the involving your children, etc. If you had just turned over the Damm computer you would have had a much better chance, although not likely, of coming out of this in better shape.


----------



## CoolItMan

3putt said:


> He's just a racist troll. His first time here was under the name Resistance.


There is nothing racist about what I typed. Not to mention it's impossible for me to be racist on this subject.

Anywho - This woman is not remorseful. The more she opens up the more it becomes very clear.

She still has a lot of resent if not outright hatred for her husband.

She wanted to humiliate him with her affair. She wanted to rub it into his face that she was being banged out by a bigger guy.

Because she so loathed him she had herself convinced he wouldn't leave. He was a pathetic man to her, no doubt.

Only - he did leave. And I hope he stays Gone. Nothing but heartache in that past.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Wishes - glad you popped by. Ignore the trolls and racists.

Yes - people on TAM can have a knee jerk reaction, but many soften their approach and - shockingly - apologize when they get it wrong. You are correct there tends to be side banter and joking in the middle of terrible situations - it's not pretty but I do think you called it.

Did you have other friendships that EXH tried to shut down as well?

Why do you think EXH was so threatened by your decades-long friendship? Was this man very good looking? Have integrity issues? A bit too close? Or does EXH just insist his W not have opposite sex friendships?

Please keep posting and ignore the flame throwers as you move forward.


----------



## farsidejunky

Wishes, while your story of your friend may be true, you are avoiding truth regarding the affair.

Misdirection, my lady, serves noone; especially you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Wishes

farsidejunky said:


> Wishes, while your story of your friend may be true, you are avoiding truth regarding the affair.
> 
> Misdirection, my lady, serves noone; especially you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


"...and let the sideshow begin..."


----------



## farsidejunky

Who, deep down, is the real Wishes?

I am genuinely curious. 

So far you have shown mostly smoke in mirrors.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Slow Hand

farsidejunky said:


> Who, deep down, is the real Wishes?
> 
> I am genuinely curious.
> 
> So far you have shown mostly smoke in mirrors.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I agree, Wishes is tripping me out!:|


----------



## MEM2020

Wishes,
Is this actually helping you? If not, I will lock the thread. 

I also need you to understand something. Your original post - was fairly clear cut. And your mental state appeared to be fully remorseful. 

Your subsequent posts represent a lot of back tracking and defensiveness. Which has produced a fairly strong reaction. 

If the overall tone continues to degrade, the thread will be locked. 







Wishes said:


> "...and let the sideshow begin..."


----------



## Wishes

MEM11363 said:


> Wishes,
> Is this actually helping you? If not, I will lock the thread.
> 
> I also need you to understand something. Your original post - was fairly clear cut. And your mental state appeared to be fully remorseful.
> 
> Your subsequent posts represent a lot of back tracking and defensiveness. Which has produced a fairly strong reaction.
> 
> If the overall tone continues to degrade, the thread will be locked.


Please read my original post. There is NO back tracking. What you are getting here is information trolled and regurgitated from SI.

I was/am fully remorseful but have been victimized enough by the good and helpful people of TAM. I will not argue for a minute that my spouse’s behavior drove me into another man’s arms. I was simply pointing out that there have been many referrals to a thread on SI (which is not an accurate picture of what actually happened in our marriage). In no way does that detract from, discount, dilute, or decrease my responsibility for my behavior, however, most people's opinion of me on this forum have been shaped by what they have read on SI, and possibly, your own. But there are two sides to every story.
Point your finger as you will, but the abuse I have endured here has been unmerited and underhanded. Most of the feedback I have received has not been based upon what I have revealed about my situation. It has based, in large part, upon what has been regurgitated from SI. How wrong is that? If, however, it is the appropriate thing to do, then, perhaps I came to the wrong place to seek out the council of wise, caring and supportive people who I could trust to tell me the truth and help me rebuild my self-esteem. 
From the moment the SI thread was introduced here, I have been routinely subjected to a pattern of unwarranted and exaggerated criticisms delivered in the form of false accusations, distorted half-truths and smear campaigns. I discovered early that many on here have zero desire to help me heal, but instead, have used their pain to cause enormous emotional hurt. On a few occasions, after visiting here, I could very well have filled out a victim’s impact statement.


----------



## Slow Hand

Wishes said:


> Please read my original post. There is NO back tracking. What you are getting here is information trolled and regurgitated from SI.
> 
> I was/am fully remorseful but have been victimized enough by the good and helpful people of TAM. I will not argue for a minute that my spouse’s behavior drove me into another man’s arms. I was simply pointing out that there have been many referrals to a thread on SI (which is not an accurate picture of what actually happened in our marriage). In no way does that detract from, discount, dilute, or decrease my responsibility for my behavior, however, most people's opinion of me on this forum have been shaped by what they have read on SI, and possibly, your own. But there are two sides to every story.
> Point your finger as you will, but the abuse I have endured here has been unmerited and underhanded. Most of the feedback I have received has not been based upon what I have revealed about my situation. It has based, in large part, upon what has been regurgitated from SI. How wrong is that? If, however, it is the appropriate thing to do, then, perhaps I came to the wrong place to seek out the council of wise, caring and supportive people who I could trust to tell me the truth and help me rebuild my self-esteem.
> From the moment the SI thread was introduced here, I have been routinely subjected to a pattern of unwarranted and exaggerated criticisms delivered in the form of false accusations, distorted half-truths and smear campaigns. I discovered early that many on here have zero desire to help me heal, but instead, have used their pain to cause enormous emotional hurt. On a few occasions, after visiting here, I could very well have filled out a victim’s impact statement.



I know it's probably the trolls that bring out the worst in you, just let it roll of your back and bite your tongue. I'd rather not see you even respond like that, it makes me think different of you and now I don't even know what to think. 

You picked a good place to get help, but, you just have to weed through all the other stuff to get to the gems. Hang in there, good luck in life. 

:smile2:


----------



## sam59

Wishes, 

Thanks so much for clarifying this for us !

Let's see GusPolinski-Wrong

DoneGone- Wrong

TAM- Wrong

Wishes- Right ! OK I finally get it !


----------



## workindad

Wishes said:


> I will finish this later today. * Have to leave for work now.
> And by the way, another result of my adultery...work.
> I was a sahm; not anymore*.





Wishes said:


> Originally Posted by *GusPolinski *
> 
> 
> 
> Let me give you more to taunt, tease and laugh at me with.
> Although I had worked closely with this man for many, many years, when BH noticed I was texting more than normal, he shut it down immediately and demanded a full, detailed explanation as to why I was interested in texting “another man.” My explanation was honest and truthful. This was not “just” another man, this was a close personal friend. I was going through a very difficult situation at the time and he was there for me.
> 
> *I was in charge of NYD in our company which required frequent travel to the West Coast where I would collaborate with the development team.* This process was quite unpredictable, unstructured and oft-times chaotic which cultivated a certain amount or comradery between team members. We consulted much, before, during and after these trips in order to manage the NPD process whereby technical solutions had to be developed iteratively to solve given problems at every stage of the process. One particular member of my team, I have known for more than 28 years. Over that period of time, not only had we developed a close working relationship but an honest, healthy friendship as well. I affectionately referred to him as my surrogate father.
> 
> All was well. This was never an issue in my marital relationship with my husband. Several years ago, however, after an extremely successful launch of a new product, this friend and I began exchanging text messages and as the product continued to exceed all expectations, we began to communicate much through email and text messaging. My husband did not approve of my texting another man when it did not concern business. We argued much over this, till finally, I agreed to end the personnel friendship and limit our communications to business.


Wishes, Can you help me understand the bolded part versus your last response? Were you a SAHM or have you been working for years.

Trying to figure out if you left your job only to continue/pursue the affair? If this was covered, I missed it. 

There is no one on this board who can tell you if your H will ever reconcile with you. He is the only one who can provide insight into where his mind is. If I recall correctly, you said he indicated it was possible in one of your replies. If that is so, then continuing to work on yourself and maintaining an unwaivering message to him is the best course of action. Mixed messages will likely be seen very negatively and cause confusion. 

WD


----------



## Wishes

workindad said:


> Wishes, Can you help me understand the bolded part versus your last response? Were you a SAHM or have you been working for years.
> 
> Trying to figure out if you left your job only to continue/pursue the affair? If this was covered, I missed it.
> 
> There is no one on this board who can tell you if your H will ever reconcile with you. He is the only one who can provide insight into where his mind is. If I recall correctly, you said he indicated it was possible in one of your replies. If that is so, then continuing to work on yourself and maintaining an unwaivering message to him is the best course of action. Mixed messages will likely be seen very negatively and cause confusion.
> 
> WD


SAHM. I worked from home and was always available for the kids. Our company was actually my dad's company and husband and I ran it. I originated most of the products and saw them through to production which was mostly done from home, other than traveling once or twice a month. I went back to work full time after the affair. Thanks for being human to me.


----------



## Wishes

sam59 said:


> Wishes,
> 
> Thanks so much for clarifying this for us !
> 
> Let's see GusPolinski-Wrong
> 
> DoneGone- Wrong
> 
> TAM- Wrong
> 
> Wishes- Right ! OK I finally get it !


You left someone out.


----------



## just got it 55

Wishes I am very aware of DGs thread

You can's post on his thread on SI as rules prohibit it

If you really want your side of events out then tell your story as factually accurate as your memory allows.
Then you will see the real caring / helpful people of TAM. Gus included.

I think the point FSJ is trying to make is to tell it.

Otherwise you should close this thread as it is hurtful to you .
and others

I really do wish you well Wishes 

55


----------



## Wishes

Slow Hand said:


> I know it's probably the trolls that bring out the worst in you, just let it roll of your back and bite your tongue.* I'd rather not see you even respond like that, it makes me think different of you and now I don't even know what to think.
> 
> *You picked a good place to get help, but, you just have to weed through all the other stuff to get to the gems. Hang in there, good luck in life.
> 
> :smile2:


I am confused that you are confuse:smile2:


----------



## Maxo

Wishes said:


> Please read my original post. There is NO back tracking. What you are getting here is information trolled and regurgitated from SI.
> 
> I was/am fully remorseful but have been victimized enough by the good and helpful people of TAM. I will not argue for a minute that my spouse’s behavior drove me into another man’s arms. I was simply pointing out that there have been many referrals to a thread on SI (which is not an accurate picture of what actually happened in our marriage). In no way does that detract from, discount, dilute, or decrease my responsibility for my behavior, however, most people's opinion of me on this forum have been shaped by what they have read on SI, and possibly, your own. But there are two sides to every story.
> Point your finger as you will, but the abuse I have endured here has been unmerited and underhanded. Most of the feedback I have received has not been based upon what I have revealed about my situation. It has based, in large part, upon what has been regurgitated from SI. How wrong is that? If, however, it is the appropriate thing to do, then, perhaps I came to the wrong place to seek out the council of wise, caring and supportive people who I could trust to tell me the truth and help me rebuild my self-esteem.
> From the moment the SI thread was introduced here, I have been routinely subjected to a pattern of unwarranted and exaggerated criticisms delivered in the form of false accusations, distorted half-truths and smear campaigns. I discovered early that many on here have zero desire to help me heal, but instead, have used their pain to cause enormous emotional hurt. On a few occasions, after visiting here, I could very well have filled out a victim’s impact statement.


Exactly, you are a victin:crying:


----------



## GusPolinski

@Wishes,

I'd first point out that, though it may have been attributed to me (the lack of quote tags makes it somewhat unclear), the Home Depot/knee pads line wasn't mine.

Second, I quoted a portion of my previous post in support of MEM's assertion that gaslighting is an especially malicious form of lying. Because it is.

Third, I didn't post it for "Likes", laughs, or "disciples". To be fair, though, I seem to get a fair amount of both the former and the median. Still, that wasn't my goal in posting that, nor is it my goal in posting much of what I contribute here.

Fourth, the content of the post itself is a very rough overview of events taken from reading through your ex's thread over on SI. If I've gotten the wrong impression as a result of misreading much of what's been posted there, then I'll offer a sincere apology for that. If, however, I've gotten a wrong impression based on misinformation or lies, then that's not really on me.

And, of course, it happens to be right on the money, then... 

...well, there you go.

Fifth (and this is just an observation), it would seem that you've finally found something negative to say about your ex.


----------



## Maxo

CoolItMan said:


> That's exactly my point. The smaller a mans penis the more likely his wife is to cheat on him, most of the time with a man with a bigger penis.
> 
> I bet if you took 1000 husbands with a 6 incher or less and 1000 husbands with an 8 to 7 incher the amount of those cheated will be astronomically higher in the 6inch or less husbands by around 80%.
> 
> Those are the numbers statistics bare out.
> 
> White Males with a penis size between 6 to 4 have an 90% chance of experiencing infidelity.
> 
> And this is only really applicable toward a specific group, though.
> 
> And this is what happened here. This woman for all intents and purposes was happy with a good husband.
> 
> But a man with a bigger **** came along and the chase started.


Well, heck,she could have set her sights a little higher


----------



## Wishes

just got it 55 said:


> Wishes I am very aware of DGs thread
> 
> You can's post on his thread on SI as rules prohibit it
> 
> If you really want your side of events out then tell your story as factually accurate as your memory allows.
> Then you will see the real caring / helpful people of TAM. Gus included.
> 
> I think the point FSJ is trying to make is to tell it.
> 
> Otherwise you should close this thread as it is hurtful to you .
> and others
> 
> I really do wish you well Wishes
> 
> 55


I like Gus, I liked him long before I started posting. He is one of the reasons I came here, but I should have say.

All this talk about this thread being closed. So be it. I am speaking this way because I have given up on you guys. After you have successfully offed me, please go back and read this thread. 

The motivation to your posting on this thread has obviously been to take pleasure in my sufferings, which has ultimately created an atmosphere of opposition and conflict. You are no different than the school house bully who knocks someone down and then dares him to get back up, except in this case, it is a girl. 
Actually, you are no different than the bully in the hallway at school. Every time someone walked past him, he would write their name down on a list. Finally, one boy walked up to him and asked him what he was doing. The bully said, “I am writing down the names of everybody I can whup.” The other boy said, “Well, you can’t whup me,” and in a trembly voice the bully replied, “Well, I’ll just take your name off the list.” I finally have enough and let you know that you can’t whip me and what do you want to do: You want to close my thread and take my name off the list.


----------



## Wishes

GusPolinski said:


> @Wishes,
> 
> I'd first point out that, though it may have been attributed to me (the lack of quote tags makes it somewhat unclear), the Home Depot/knee pads line wasn't mine.
> 
> Second, I quoted a portion of my previous post in support of MEM's assertion that gaslighting is an especially malicious form of lying. Because it is.
> 
> Third, I didn't post it for "Likes", laughs, or "disciples". To be fair, though, I seem to get a fair amount of both the former and the median. Still, that wasn't my goal in posting that, nor is it my goal in posting much of what I contribute here.
> 
> Fourth, the content of the post itself is a very rough overview of events taken from reading through your ex's thread over on SI. If I've gotten the wrong impression as a result of misreading much of what's been posted there, then I'll offer a sincere apology for that. If, however, I've gotten a wrong impression based on misinformation or lies, then that's not really on me.
> 
> And, of course, it happens to be right on the money, then...
> 
> ...well, there you go.
> 
> Fifth (and this is just an observation), it would seem that you've finally found something negative to say about your ex.


Gus, allow me to quickly say, in case this thread is being closed, I am sorry that I misinterpreted. I'm sorry.


----------



## Maxo

Don't forget to take your ball.


----------



## Wishes

Maxo said:


> Don't forget to take your ball.


Not to worry, I have plenty of balls.


----------



## Maxo

Wishes said:


> SAHM. I worked from home and was always available for the kids. Our company was actually my dad's company and husband and I ran it. I originated most of the products and saw them through to production which was mostly done from home, other than traveling once or twice a month. I went back to work full time after the affair. Thanks for being human to me.


Sounds like you had a nice situation. Why messit up? Was your affair partner as crude as he seemed to be in your texting exchange? Did you have something against his wife?


----------



## Maxo

Wishes said:


> Not to worry, I have plenty of balls.


That is an understatement,


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Wishes - I asked a moderator to close the thread because it had gotten out of hand and you weren't posting any more. He won't close it if you want to keep posting - it was just an offer in the event you wanted it closed.

So, moving on.

I'd like to point out to the posters of TAM that there are threads hundreds of pages long - like cinnabomb and NewPhoenix5 - where the OP is clearly codependent and completely unable to take action to improve their horrible situations. Yet TAM continues to listen and try to help these guys see the truth they can't possibly allow themselves to see.

How about laying off the "you're a terrible person - why can't you see that" dialog and instead listen and respond and help her see things in due time?

Seriously - TAM members can help wishes - but we need encouragement FIRST. Wishes already lost her marriage - how about helping now?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I'm game TTH


----------



## MEM2020

Wishes,
Part of healing - is breaking the habit of deception. 

You were repeatedly asked whether the posts on SI were made by your ex husband. While I admit to not reading your entire thread, I read enough to see that you resumed posting after that link was posted - without saying anything about it. 

So my very simple question is this. Is that your ex husbands post?

I'm not asking if you fully agree with his depiction of events (though his story and your OP are closely aligned). Just asking if it is him. 








Wishes said:


> You left someone out.


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> Wishes - I asked a moderator to close the thread because it had gotten out of hand and you weren't posting any more. He won't close it if you want to keep posting - it was just an offer in the event you wanted it closed.
> 
> So, moving on.
> 
> I'd like to point out to the posters of TAM that there are threads hundreds of pages long - like cinnabomb and NewPhoenix5 - where the OP is clearly codependent and completely unable to take action to improve their horrible situations. Yet TAM continues to listen and try to help these guys see the truth they can't possibly allow themselves to see.
> 
> How about laying off the "you're a terrible person - why can't you see that" dialog and instead listen and respond and help her see things in due time?
> 
> Seriously - TAM members can help wishes - but we need encouragement FIRST. Wishes already lost her marriage - how about helping now?


Perhaps because she keeps alluding to inaccuracies in her XH's thread so vaguely, never correcting them.
Very strange style.


----------



## Slow Hand

Wishes said:


> I am confused that you are confuse:smile2:


It's the fog.......:wink2:


----------



## Wishes

CoolItMan said:


> There is nothing racist about what I typed. Not to mention it's impossible for me to be racist on this subject.
> 
> Anywho - This woman is not remorseful. The more she opens up the more it becomes very clear.
> 
> She still has a lot of resent if not outright hatred for her husband.
> 
> She wanted to humiliate him with her affair. She wanted to rub it into his face that she was being banged out by a bigger guy.
> 
> Because she so loathed him she had herself convinced he wouldn't leave. He was a pathetic man to her, no doubt.
> 
> Only - he did leave. And I hope he stays Gone. Nothing but heartache in that past.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Maxo said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes - I asked a moderator to close the thread because it had gotten out of hand and you weren't posting any more. He won't close it if you want to keep posting - it was just an offer in the event you wanted it closed.
> 
> So, moving on.
> 
> I'd like to point out to the posters of TAM that there are threads hundreds of pages long - like cinnabomb and NewPhoenix5 - where the OP is clearly codependent and completely unable to take action to improve their horrible situations. Yet TAM continues to listen and try to help these guys see the truth they can't possibly allow themselves to see.
> 
> How about laying off the "you're a terrible person - why can't you see that" dialog and instead listen and respond and help her see things in due time?
> 
> Seriously - TAM members can help wishes - but we need encouragement FIRST. Wishes already lost her marriage - how about helping now?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps because she keeps alluding to inaccuracies in her XH's thread so vaguely, never correcting them.
> Very strange style.
Click to expand...

She made no such assertions. She RESPONDED to continued references to another site where she never posted anything. Do you want her to litigate someone else's thoughts and posts? Well, she said she doesn't want to rehash her EXH's posts and she has every right to not want to do that. What's done is done and it has ended in divorce. So maybe we should talk about what wishes has on her mind.


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> She made no such assertions. She RESPONDED to continued references to another site where she never posted anything. Do you want her to litigate someone else's thoughts and posts? Well, she said she doesn't want to rehash her EXH's posts and she has every right to not want to do that. What's done is done and it has ended in divorce. So maybe we should talk about what wishes has on her mind.


That is inaccurate.


----------



## Wishes

MEM11363 said:


> Wishes,
> Part of healing - is breaking the habit of deception.
> 
> You were repeatedly asked whether the posts on SI were made by your ex husband. While I admit to not reading your entire thread, I read enough to see that you resumed posting after that link was posted - without saying anything about it.
> 
> So my very simple question is this. Is that your ex husbands post?
> 
> I'm not asking if you fully agree with his depiction of events (though his story and your OP are closely aligned). Just asking if it is him.


 Oh but, you conveniently ignore the back drop of those questions. You forget “why” they were asked. Again, accept my invitation to review. I am thankful to the people on this forum who posted on this thread ‘truly’ wishing to be helpful, and you have been. Your criticism has been constructive, you have offered valid and well-reasoned explanations and opinions that have been hard but not harsh. I respect you greatly.
Remember when you were a kid and another kid ran to the teacher or parent and “told on you”? We called people who did this “tattlers.” Being a tattletale was not a good thing but on this thread it is seems to be a badge of honor. In the last several days, I have become increasingly aware that any opportunity I had of receiving meaningful and unbiased guidance here has been seriously undermined by a pack or heartless, wicked, brainless scandal mongers. 
You know who you are. You portray yourselves as angels of light but you are anything but. With great delight you have slithered to another forum, in which my ex-husband has an active thread, in order to collect malicious information against me, and then, gleefully report back to this thread. Many of you, who have not directly gone to that forum, have made it known that you are receptive to any and all scraps and tidbits of garbage they collect against me. 
You tell me to leave my ex alone, however, you are annoying the hell out of him. Please take your own advice and leave him alone. You constantly remind me of the pain I brought to him, while you are actively engaged in being a royal pain in his ass. You have literally harassed the hell out of him, to the point that he has attempted to have all his posts removed. You don’t see a problem, which only goes to suggest how deeply in the fog you must be. In your mad rush to punish me, you have had no regard for yourselves or others. You castigate me for involving my children and then you do the same thing. 
I am not the first you have done this to and, sadly, I will not be the last. You continue on with impunity. When your hapless victims have finally had enough and cannot stomach any more or your ignorant, rude, and vile commentary, they abandon their thread, feeling like dirt, as you do a victory lap, he he, ha ha, haw haw, another one bites the dust. Then you slap each other on the back and brag about how quickly you ran them off and how effectively you were able to administer justice. You showed them and once again you punished somebody else for something that was done to you. 
Some of you have been on TAM for years and your early works actually indicate a warm beating heart. One can actually read your post and chart your moral decline. You consider yourselves beacons of righteousness and inquire as to how I could have degraded myself. Ask this same question of yourselves. How did you allow your moral decline to reach the point to where you have become nothing more than chickens pecking around in the barnyard searching for delicious morsels of **** to share on this thread? You ask how I could do such disgusting things behind my husband’s back; consider your own disgusting behavior. I look at you and find it much easier to live with myself. I am not so bad, after all. Indeed, you have helped me. Thank-you. and the damage you have so proudly inflicted. You ask how I could have involved my children when, in fact, you have also involved my children. 
I do not expect these simple words to resurrect your sense of compassion or empathy; quite the contrary. I believe it will be the impetus to effect the sinking of your claws even deeper into me as well as the next trusting, innocent victims who wonder into the vicinity of your lair. 
Even as I read your words of condemnation and reproach, I feel a deep sense of compassion and responsibility. I am sorry for you and I am sorry for my part in your being what you have become, and thankfully I can also say, “But by the grace of God, there goes I.” Sure, I did something terrible, but when I look at you, I realize I could have done something far, far worse. 
When someone triggers from reading my thread, I am horrified and even though I have met with reproach for being this way; I think I want to remain me. I have problems but this is not one of them. 
I am not the first you have done this to and I will not be the last. You continue on with impunity. When your hapless victims have finally had enough and cannot take anymore ignorant, rude and vile commentary; you taunt them, insult them and finally throw a hissy fit if they do not come back. You try and lure them back because you have come up with another tasty treat for them. One that will really fill them with shame and perhaps get you a few slaps on the back in the process. Once you decide they are gone for good, you then slap each other on the back and brag about how quickly you ran them off, all the while, being thankful that at least they stayed around long enough for you to get then in your sights and administer some justice. 
I realize it is myself and people like myself that have hurt you, but does that really give you the right to hurt others? You choose to stay, and come here and open the wounds day by day. I will probably choose to leave because I wish not to be further injected nor infected with your hateful, unyielding, bitter, self-righteous bull-ony. I assume you will use these words as a means to attack me (as you have done) and smugly sit behind your computer screens agreeing…he, he…ha, ha.. haw, haw…and another one’s gone, bites the dust, yea another ones gone, another ones gone and …..and this only goes to prove how deep in the fog you really are. The difference between you and I are: I will get better.


----------



## Wishes

maxo said:


> that is inaccurate.


that is accurate.


----------



## Wishes

Maxo said:


> That is inaccurate.


TTH is quite accurate. Don't speak with your mouth full.....


----------



## MEM2020

Truth,
It's unclear to me whether or not Wishes will ultimately benefit from being here. 

If she needs unconditional support - this is the wrong venue for her. If she wants tough love - maybe she will benefit from being here. 

Her opening post described her intense desire to reconcile. 

And yet, her tone on this thread is wildly inconsistent with that goal. 

Wishes,
I don't know your husband. All I know is that if he has anything close to the 'standard male circuit board', he will find this thread to be absolute confirmation that he made the right decision. 

True remorse, is like pornography - oh so difficult to define - and oh so easy to recognize. 











TheTruthHurts said:


> She made no such assertions. She RESPONDED to continued references to another site where she never posted anything. Do you want her to litigate someone else's thoughts and posts? Well, she said she doesn't want to rehash her EXH's posts and she has every right to not want to do that. What's done is done and it has ended in divorce. So maybe we should talk about what wishes has on her mind.


----------



## MEM2020

And just to be clear - your OP was excellent. And - gently - I suggest that you read the replies you got. Because I just did. And they were overall supportive. I'd say 90% supportive. 

Let me show you how to handle the SI cross posting cluster fvck that ensued shortly after you started this thread. 

This is me - ghost writing for you. 

All,
Yes. That is my ex H on the SI thread. If you read my OP here, and his posts there, you will see that I did the best I could to accurately depict how badly I hurt him. 

I ask that you not cross post between here and there. He is trying to heal there. I am trying to heal here. It will NOT help him for you to push this thread in his face. 

---------
If I'm your ex - and I end up here - I read that and think: what a kind gesture. 






MEM11363 said:


> Truth,
> It's unclear to me whether or not Wishes will ultimately benefit from being here.
> 
> If she needs unconditional support - this is the wrong venue for her. If she wants tough love - maybe she will benefit from being here.
> 
> Her opening post described her intense desire to reconcile.
> 
> And yet, her tone on this thread is wildly inconsistent with that goal.
> 
> Wishes,
> I don't know your husband. All I know is that if he has anything close to the 'standard male circuit board', he will find this thread to be absolute confirmation that he made the right decision.
> 
> True remorse, is like pornography - oh so difficult to define - and oh so easy to recognize.


----------



## Wishes

MEM11363 said:


> Truth,
> It's unclear to me whether or not Wishes will ultimately benefit from being here.
> 
> If she needs unconditional support - this is the wrong venue for her. If she wants tough love - maybe she will benefit from being here.
> 
> Her opening post described her intense desire to reconcile.
> 
> And yet, her tone on this thread is wildly inconsistent with that goal.
> 
> Wishes,
> I don't know your husband. All I know is that if he has anything close to the 'standard male circuit board', he will find this thread to be absolute confirmation that he made the right decision.
> 
> True remorse, is like pornography - oh so difficult to define - and oh so easy to recognize.


You are right, you do not know my ex-husband.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

One thing that is quite clear Wishes, you are a very intelligent woman.


----------



## TaDor

A line from my Al Anon book said something that helped me.

"Today I will love myself enough to recognize shame as an error in judgment."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh said:


> One thing that is quite clear Wishes, you are a very intelligent woman.


And in a lot of pain..


----------



## TX-SC

Could you at least indicate what misrepresented your cheating in DG's thread at SI? Did you not say and do the things he attributed to you and your OM? Were the conversations he posted wrong?


----------



## Wishes

MEM11363 said:


> And just to be clear - your OP was excellent. And - gently - I suggest that you read the replies you got. Because I just did. And they were overall supportive. I'd say 90% supportive.
> 
> Let me show you how to handle the SI cross posting cluster fvck that ensued shortly after you started this thread.
> 
> This is me - ghost writing for you.
> 
> All,
> Yes. That is my ex H on the SI thread. If you read my OP here, and his posts there, you will see that I did the best I could to accurately depict how badly I hurt him.
> 
> I ask that you not cross post between here and there. He is trying to heal there. I am trying to heal here. It will NOT help him for you to push this thread in his face.
> 
> ---------
> If I'm your ex - and I end up here - I read that and think: what a kind gesture.


MEM11363
I have not written anything for my ex-husband but I will say that he has read this thread, thanks to the kind gesture of some people here who PM'd him the info. He contacted me immediately and told me to get away from this site. I forget his exact words but said I would be eaten alive. He offered to leave the forum he was on to make room for me. So, I know what he thinks.

My replies were overall supportive until SI was introduced into the mix. You must admit, it has mostly been down hill from there. I have not withheld my side of this story. I did not feel it was relevant nor have I felt safe. It was only after being badgered and attacked over and over and over have I responded thus.

I can only wonder why it is now that you respond. Why allow them to pick me apart and suddenly when I say enough, here you are to put me in my place. Why?


----------



## CoolItMan

Really?

What I see is an unremorseful exwife intent on depicting herself as a victim. She even got defensive enough to tear another strip off her ex-husband. Read how she spoke of her friendship with a 'father figure' the hostility toward her husband bleeds off the page.

She harps on about her husband being controlling, jealous, rigid, cold, etc.

At the same time this is the same woman who would then go on to have an affair with another 'old friend'. A woman who, while the affair was ongoing was putting her husband down like a dog to the other man and marveling at the other mans sexual 'prowess'. Exerting she would like to feel like a real 'woman'.

A woman who tried to use her children against her husband, to hide truth from him, blackmailing him into staying in the marriage.

Give me a BREAK. There is no remorse from her. There was guilt and that quickly vanished to be replaced by anger, hostility, smugness and overt victimization as the thread went on and less and less people bought her ****.

The very wayward mindset that allows these emotional vampires to feed on Broken Spouses she is showing here and now!

You people don't know how to spot a charlatan for the forest, do you?

She's a court jester and you're all the dumb sheep being lulled to sleep by her.


----------



## eric1

Wishes said:


> I like Gus, I liked him long before I started posting. He is one of the reasons I came here, but I should have say.
> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about this thread being closed. So be it. I am speaking this way because I have given up on you guys. After you have successfully offed me, please go back and read this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> The motivation to your posting on this thread has obviously been to take pleasure in my sufferings, which has ultimately created an atmosphere of opposition and conflict. You are no different than the school house bully who knocks someone down and then dares him to get back up, except in this case, it is a girl.
> 
> Actually, you are no different than the bully in the hallway at school. Every time someone walked past him, he would write their name down on a list. Finally, one boy walked up to him and asked him what he was doing. The bully said, “I am writing down the names of everybody I can whup.” The other boy said, “Well, you can’t whup me,” and in a trembly voice the bully replied, “Well, I’ll just take your name off the list.” I finally have enough and let you know that you can’t whip me and what do you want to do: You want to close my thread and take my name off the list.



I don't want you to suffer and would be happy to act as a sounding board


----------



## Wishes

Slow Hand said:


> It's the fog.......:wink2:


ok slowhand, I laughed at that.


----------



## just got it 55

Wishes said:


> I like Gus, I liked him long before I started posting. He is one of the reasons I came here, but I should have say.
> 
> All this talk about this thread being closed. So be it. I am speaking this way because I have given up on you guys. After you have successfully offed me, please go back and read this thread.
> 
> The motivation to your posting on this thread has obviously been to take pleasure in my sufferings, which has ultimately created an atmosphere of opposition and conflict. You are no different than the school house bully who knocks someone down and then dares him to get back up, except in this case, it is a girl.
> Actually, you are no different than the bully in the hallway at school. Every time someone walked past him, he would write their name down on a list. Finally, one boy walked up to him and asked him what he was doing. The bully said, “I am writing down the names of everybody I can whup.” The other boy said, “Well, you can’t whup me,” and in a trembly voice the bully replied, “Well, I’ll just take your name off the list.” I finally have enough and let you know that you can’t whip me and what do you want to do: You want to close my thread and take my name off the list.


Wishes I am genuinely saddened by your response to my post.
If you knew me IRL you would know me to be THE ONE to stand up for the rights of others It's the way I was raised and the culture of all of my life long friendships as far back as childhood.

I would encourage you to review my only two posts on your thread 

They were supportive without question.

Your fear and pain are clouding your interpretations .

55


----------



## straightshooter

Wishes,

Forget the sex part of gthe affair for a minute. I just can't figure out what you thought you were going to gain by telling DG if you went to three MC appointments you would turn the electronics over to him knowing what was on them.????

OK, it was hurtful, you knew that. You did not take the computer and whatever else there was destroy them. Did you think the MC would then talk DG into not paying attention to what was on the computers during the three appointments.

To me, that was the period you killed your marriage or any chance to reconcile. Because I think that is when you got your kids involved and a lot of the gas lighting took place.

Up until then quite honestly your affair was not all that unique. A lot of women, and men probably for that matter
(1) cheat
(2) say some not so great stuff about their spouses. Sometimes that is necessary to demonize spouse in order to justify what they are doing.
(3) and have a lot of TT

If you had left it at the above, probably some chance of a different outcome. I still doubt if reconciliation is in the cards. If you original post was looking for advice on how to approach DG to give you another chance, I guess anything can happen.

But other than the stuff I just asked you about, your affair should not have been a deal breaker. The simple fact that DG hung around SI asking for advice until he got the computers kind of justifies that.

You were just in self preservation mode, just like many of the WW on here and SI, but just took at I think to a level more destructive to your husband.

That does not make you a devil. But it also does not make you a good candidate for him to come back to you. Too much emotional damage.

But anythiung can happen.


----------



## Wishes

just got it 55 said:


> Wishes I am genuinely saddened by your response to my post.
> If you knew me IRL you would know me to be THE ONE to stand up for the rights of others It's the way I was raised and the culture of all of my life long friendships as far back as childhood.
> 
> I would encourage you to review my only two posts on your thread
> 
> They were supportive without question.
> 
> *Your fear and pain are clouding your interpretations *.
> 
> 55


You are right,
I was wrong,
I interpreted in anger, I am sorry,
Please accept my apology.
I truly apologize.


----------



## just got it 55

Wishes said:


> You are right,
> I was wrong,
> I interpreted in anger, I am sorry,
> Please accept my apology.
> I truly apologize.


Accepted :smile2:

55


----------



## Wishes

straightshooter said:


> Wishes,
> 
> Forget the sex part of gthe affair for a minute. I just can't figure out what you thought you were going to gain by telling DG if you went to three MC appointments you would turn the electronics over to him knowing what was on them.????
> 
> OK, it was hurtful, you knew that. You did not take the computer and whatever else there was destroy them. Did you think the MC would then talk DG into not paying attention to what was on the computers during the three appointments.
> 
> To me, that was the period you killed your marriage or any chance to reconcile. Because I think that is when you got your kids involved and a lot of the gas lighting took place.
> 
> Up until then quite honestly your affair was not all that unique. A lot of women, and men probably for that matter
> (1) cheat
> (2) say some not so great stuff about their spouses. Sometimes that is necessary to demonize spouse in order to justify what they are doing.
> (3) and have a lot of TT
> 
> If you had left it at the above, probably some chance of a different outcome. I still doubt if reconciliation is in the cards. If you original post was looking for advice on how to approach DG to give you another chance, I guess anything can happen.
> 
> But other than the stuff I just asked you about, your affair should not have been a deal breaker. The simple fact that DG hung around SI asking for advice until he got the computers kind of justifies that.
> 
> You were just in self preservation mode, just like many of the WW on here and SI, but just took at I think to a level more destructive to your husband.
> 
> That does not make you a devil. But it also does not make you a good candidate for him to come back to you. Too much emotional damage.
> 
> But anythiung can happen.


We never went to a MC
not three times, not two times, not even once.

I had been seeing a therapist 6 months before any of the texting problems. I had never been able to get ex-husband to go to therapy with me, even though, he was the reason I was there.
I will not go deeper into that because it will be interpreted as rug sweeping. I take responsibility for what I did.

I needed BH to understand what he had done to me. I knew the marriage was over, emails or no emails. The marriage was over. He wanted the emails, I wanted him to speak with my therapist. So, I offered him the emails if he would go to therapy with me. I was not trying to stonewall. I knew the marriage was over. I only wanted him to understand what he had done to me.


----------



## MEM2020

Wishes,
I came - because a poster who was concerned about you - PM'd me.

This isn't a 'safe place', it's more of a 'tough love' place. 

I'm not going to debate you - any further - as to where your head is at. I do agree some of the posters have been out of line. Two were warned - one replied he understood. The other is now taking an infinite vacation from TAM for continuing to bait you. 

That said, you are also partly responsible for the tone of this thread. 





Wishes said:


> MEM11363
> I have not written anything for my ex-husband but I will say that he has read this thread, thanks to the kind gesture of some people here who PM'd him the info. He contacted me immediately and told me to get away from this site. I forget his exact words but said I would be eaten alive. He offered to leave the forum he was on to make room for me. So, I know what he thinks.
> 
> My replies were overall supportive until SI was introduced into the mix. You must admit, it has mostly been down hill from there. I have not withheld my side of this story. I did not feel it was relevant nor have I felt safe. It was only after being badgered and attacked over and over and over have I responded thus.
> 
> I can only wonder why it is now that you respond. Why allow them to pick me apart and suddenly when I say enough, here you are to put me in my place. Why?


----------



## Wishes

just got it 55 said:


> Accepted :smile2:
> 
> 55


I feel much better. 
Thank-you.


----------



## Wishes

MEM11363 said:


> Wishes,
> I came - because a poster who was concerned about you - PM'd me.
> 
> This isn't a 'safe place', it's more of a 'tough love' place.
> 
> I'm not going to debate you - any further - as to where your head is at. I do agree some of the posters have been out of line. Two were warned - one replied he understood. The other is now taking an infinite vacation from TAM for continuing to bait you.
> 
> That said, you are also partly responsible for the tone of this thread.


I take no responsibility for the tone of this thread. I have been very silent throughout the "tone" of this thread. Only when I spoke up was the "tone" of this thread addressed.
There is tough love to be kind, and then there is "being cruel to hurt, wound and destroy."


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Good Lord Wishes, what the hell have you been through. I can feel your pain at a visceral gut level. The more you talk, the more I am holding back tears that want to come flooding out. Whatever it is, I am deeply sorry for your pain. I may be way off base but from this side it feels like you've been through the bowels of hell only to survive and here talking to us.


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> We never went to a MC
> not three times, not two times, not even once.
> 
> I had been seeing a therapist 6 months before any of the texting problems. I had never been able to get ex-husband to go to therapy with me, even though, he was the reason I was there.
> I will not go deeper into that because it will be interpreted as rug sweeping. I take responsibility for what I did.
> 
> I needed BH to understand what he had done to me. I knew the marriage was over, emails or no emails. The marriage was over. He wanted the emails, I wanted him to speak with my therapist. So, I offered him the emails if he would go to therapy with me. I was not trying to stonewall. I knew the marriage was over. I only wanted him to understand what he had done to me.


Sounds like your husband held you to a real high standard. Because he worshiped you it appears he made sure you fit his standard of worship. Sometimes not in a healthy way...


----------



## sam59

OK,

Sam59 wrong

SI wrong.

Wishes, Guy said it on the first day Move ON ! Your Husband has !


----------



## Wishes

Blossom Leigh said:


> Good Lord Wishes, what the hell have you been through. I can feel your pain at a visceral gut level. The more you talk, the more I am holding back tears that want to come flooding out. Whatever it is, I am deeply sorry for your pain. I may be way off base but from this side it feels like you've been through the bowels of hell only to survive and here talking to us.


Dear Lord Blossom Leigh, Thank-you.
You've made me cry. I would hug you if I could.


----------



## Adelais

I have read your whole thread from start to finish. My impression from your initial post is that you were honest and contrite. In your initial post you gave the impression that your husband was nothing but a good husband and that you have always loved him.

You came here with the mindset of wanting your husband back, and wanting to know if the folks of TAM thought you had a chance of getting him back if you waited.

When someone posted your husband's side of the story, so people could get more of the whole picture, you became angry, defensive, and your tone began to sound like some trolls that have lead posters along in the past. People put a lot of time and thought into reading and posting for new members, and understandably, they didn't want to be strung along and their time wasted. Perhaps they should have PMed each other of their reservations rather than posting them on your thread, thus offending you. Several times you were asked if the thread on SI was your husbands, and you refused to answer. Just saying "Yes" or "No" would have helped, so people could move on and focused on your thread, keeping in mind the parts of the story you left out, so as to give you better input.

Below I've quoted your thread and deleted extraneous detail leaving some of the key elements that apply or can be explored further.



Wishes said:


> I am new here.
> 
> I cheated on my husband. I really do not understand how or why I could have done such a thing because it is so deeply out of character.
> 
> but always found a way to keep the affair going. I cannot say I was unhappy because, before the affair, I was happy nearly all the time. I can’t say that it “just happened.” It didn’t. I allowed it to happen.
> 
> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him???
> 
> I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him.
> 
> He forgave me for some inappropriate texting but once he learned the affair went physical, he walked away and never looked back.
> 
> I’ve lost a husband who literally worshipped the ground I walked on and I also lost the respect of my children as well as many of my friends
> 
> I had a perfect, wonderful and blessed life that for some reason I felt I had to completely trash. My husband was perfect in every way imaginable. He was faithful true and kind to the fullest extent.
> 
> When my husband first voiced his concern with the volumn of text messages between me and ‘just a friend’,
> 
> I somehow knew that it would be easier to convince him that he was the problem and not me, so I proceeded to tear him down, convincing him that he was narrow minded, controlling and just plain jealous. I convinced him that he was the one who needed therapy. Not a proud moment.
> 
> Some months later he found some inappropriate texts and pictures between me and OM, but, by this time I had become the liar and cheater and everything in between that I loathed in a person.
> 
> continue my relationship with OM so we took it underground. We bought burner phones, set up new email accounts and would meet whenever possible.
> 
> 
> I had become addicted to the attention and I used sex to make sure I continued to get it.
> 
> I deserve absolutely no pity or compassion from my husband, my children, friends, family nor anyone reading these words.
> 
> I did not confess to my infidelity.
> 
> My husband caught me and I will never forget how horrible it was. With tears in his eyes he shouted and screamed at me.
> 
> The most awful, heartbreaking and terrifying thing I remember about that day was witnessing his love and care for me turn into pure hatred and distain.
> 
> One of my therapist said it was my attempt at self-medicating a traumatic childhood. If that be the case, I am here to say that it did not work, it only left me feeling angry, empty and filled with more self-loathing. My upbringing was inconsistent and horrifically verbally and physically abusive particularly from my daddy; so yes, I have serious daddy issues, but I never had issues with my husband.
> 
> *Because I want my husband back and I will wait for him.* What else can I do.
> 
> My question to you is very selfish, I know. *do you think there is much chance for me to get another chance?*
> 
> Please, try not to bash me. I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. I am asking for something constructive to help me either, *move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely.* I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.






Wishes said:


> His line in the sand, as he explained it was, three strikes, you're out. First he registered his concern with my preoccupation with texting; then he discovered the disgusting texts and pictures exchanged between myself and OM, and third strike is when he assumed it was a PA.
> I appreciate your support.
> 
> The Power was intoxicating and the ego trip.
> 
> *Is my character defined by the 46 years I lived before my affair, the 9 months of my affair or the year that has passed since the affair?* I am not necessarily making a statement, I am asking a question?


Since your character seemed to change so drastically during and after your A, from your husband's perspective, I'd have to venture that it is defined from the day he discovered you were being deceptive with him. It doesn't seem fair to you, but you cannot expect anything else.

Have you explored and fixed the part of you that was willing to throw everything away for intoxicating power?



SoulStorm said:


> I think I read your husband's side of the story. You turned the whole situation around on him. You convinced him he was crazy. You even made him go see a therapist. You even had your daughters fooled and told them you weren't doing anything and their father needed help. Once he finally had proof that you were indeed physically cheating, you made him go to three marriage counseling sessions before you gave him the passwords to your laptop and phone. He did go and after you gave him the passwords plus the burner phone, he found out how badly the OM would berate him. I think he even caught you two at a restaurant and the OM was playing footsie with you under the table while your trusting hubby sat there and was happy that you were meeting an old childhood friend. He did put you on a pedestal. He said you were his world and it all collapsed once he found out what you were really doing. He had to rebuild his relationship with his daughters because you had them believing he was accusing you and you said you were doing nothing. Now they tolerate you. It was very cruel how you did him. He would have a hard time believing that you would change after such behavior. I really hope you do change if this was you. I believe you can. I think your husband will always love you, but trust will be a whole different issue.


SoulStorm's post was very valuable. Your husband is not only upset about the actual infidelity, but the person you became, and the way you treated/abused him emotionally to protect the affair. Have you dug into what allowed you to turn into that person?



Wishes said:


> I am not consciously romanticizing our relationship nor trying to characterize it as better, more interesting, or more exciting than it really was.
> 
> We began having children soon after we were married and I thought we were supposed to put the kids first. It did not take BH long to notice this and he made it known that the kids did not come first but that we came first and that as long as everything was good between me and him, the kids would be fine.
> 
> We often routinely traveled with our work. When he was in town, he would move mountains to make sure we met up every day either for lunch or dinner. Sometimes our schedules were in conflict so he would call and talk to me during his lunch. When he was out of town I would usually go with him or fly up for a few days. When i was out of town, he would do the same. We called these times our “mini-honeymoons.” Sometimes I questioned leaving the kids and his response was always, “We’re kids too.”
> 
> I had gained over 30 lbs and it seemed most of it was still there after the baby was born, I was uncomfortable with him seeing me unclothed and would literally hold something in front of my stomach to shield it from his view. One day he sat me down and gave me a reality check. He reminded me that my body had given us a beautiful baby and as much as he had loved my body before, he said that now he just worshipped it. Then, my husband, (a 22 year old kid), got down on his hands and knees and kissed my belly and thanked it for giving us a beautiful daughter. He gave me this reality check after the birth of each of our children and many times in between.


Your husband sounds like a quailty man.



CynthiaDe said:


> Based on your op, I think I know what caused you to cheat.
> You do not have an internal sense of self containment or integrity. You get your value from outside of yourself. You feel you cannot live without your ex. If you cannot live without him, you are not a safe person, because you base your worth on how he feels about you. You went looking for someone else, because you had a void that you were trying to fill. This is because another person will never be sufficient for giving you value. If your value doesn't come from your beliefs about yourself and your place in the world, you will never be safe or secure.
> Until you feel that you are a person of value and that you are able to live without feeling lost without someone else to give you that sense of peace, you will not be a safe person for your ex. You may never get him back, but until you are okay with that and care enough about him that you let him go, he shouldn't take you back anyway. Until you resolve your internal issues, you could go off the rails again at any time.


CynthiaDe is onto something. Keep digging on this hill.



Wishes said:


> *Evinrude58*
> I appreciate your question, but, it is based on an assumption of truth. Let me ask you, "Do you assume that everything you read on the SI post to be true?" If so, "Why?"
> 
> My use of truth "did not" lead me to this problem. Most of the things I said to my husband, I would say again, although I would couch them more diplomatically.


Did your husband lie about details on SI? If so, here is your opportunity to set the record straight. You are here, and we are here to listen, support, and give you our impressions. We aren't professionals, but we've either experienced one side of infidelity or the other, and have read 100's if not 1,000's of infidelity stories, and know the basic trends. 

There have been a few WS's here how have grown and become better people by allowing others to give their input. It is up to you to examine the input and see if it is relevant in your case, or not. You can use your control panel to put offending/aggressive people on ignore, so you aren't distracted by them.

You can get healing, but no promises you will ever get your husband back. That is not entirely up to you. If you become a better, more authentic, more stable person, you might become more attractive to him. But there might already be too much water under the bridge for him to ever consider you a valid partner again. Become the best person you can be for your next partner, whomever he may be!


----------



## GusPolinski

sam59 said:


> OK,
> 
> Sam59 wrong
> 
> SI wrong.
> 
> Wishes, Guy said it on the first day Move ON ! Your Husband has !


I'm assuming you meant "Gus".

If so, I'll point out that I didn't intend that the message within the post that I believe you're referencing to be received in the same tone that's coming across in your post above.


----------



## sam59

Sorry about the fat finger GUS ! I think that the advice you gave was accurate !


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Wishes - I loved your posts! Mostly because you're putting it out there now. I think it can be helpful to just get angry enough to let lose - particularly since you've seemed so very sad.

I'm not saying I'm glad you were baited - but you have used that to show a bit of yourself and your personality which is s big deal.

I have mixed emotions about addressing the A - it's true that stepping through your thoughts and actions here will allow the more thoughtful TAMsters to guide you through this and maybe act as a winding board to help you see things you might not be able to see yourself.

On the other hand - I'm also the kind of guy that is happy to let the poster determine the direction of the thread. I would never go to a different site to read a "back story" because it is the posters prerogative to decide not to rehash a past issue of they don't want to. It just may not be relevant at all to the topic at hand. From my perspective, anyone seeking help on a forum like this is insightful enough to know what they want help with, and may well have rehashed their past sufficiently.

So - if you absolutely don't want to step through the past at all - state that explicitly. And then when people bring it up, respectfully repeat that you aren't addressing that on this thread. Some won't get it but most will.

Can you tell us how you'd like to go forward? I know for a fact me, blossom and others really want you to express yourself and help you move forward.


----------



## MEM2020

Wishes,
If you can get him back, you should. He is a class act from start to finish. 

Hopefully you can find someone who will help you navigate through this situation to maximize your chance of a good overall outcome.

You would greatly benefit from a good advisor. 






Wishes said:


> I take no responsibility for the tone of this thread. I have been very silent throughout the "tone" of this thread. Only when I spoke up was the "tone" of this thread addressed.
> There is tough love to be kind, and then there is "being cruel to hurt, wound and destroy."


----------



## ing

@Wishes
I posted on your thread some time ago and then waited for the conversation to begin. 

There is very little content on this thread from you that is not related to this thread or your treatment on this forum.
Then we had bible discussion.. 

What do you want from people here? You need to say it. Plainly and openly.


----------



## J Valley

Wishes,

Sorry to see you here and what a big drama this thread has been. Are you still fighting for your ex husband's love and forgiveness? Is reconciliation still on the table or are you just using this thread to vent? I wish you well and hope that you will find whatever you are looking for in life.


----------



## oneMOreguy

Wishes said:


> Blossom Leigh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good Lord Wishes, what the hell have you been through. I can feel your pain at a visceral gut level. The more you talk, the more I am holding back tears that want to come flooding out. Whatever it is, I am deeply sorry for your pain. I may be way off base but from this side it feels like you've been through the bowels of hell only to survive and here talking to us.
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Lord Blossom Leigh, Thank-you.
> You've made me cry. I would hug you if I could.
Click to expand...


Moist eyes for me also.......this is tough stuff indeed.

Wishes...........can you kinda direct this a bit? There is no sense for all of us clashing on the dialog if it just keeps circling on the same stuff. Only you can tell your story thru your eyes. It will of course differ some from your exh......I would be concerned if it didn't.

Help us be helpful......but this does put a burden on you. And fwiw.....not all of us are from the really tough love group. Many of us also came here because we were not behaving like we should. .....we understand how behavior like yours starts and then takes on a life of its own. And even though it is heresy here, kinda anyway, we understand that very hurtful behavior can be done by someone who intends no hurt.

I have learned a lot from this place. ....mostly from those who are toughest on me. But some of the softer ones have given me much to ponder on. This place is good therapy for ending the worst of my behaviors.....yea, some is still a work in progress. You are always welcome here......you can filter out anyone you consistently find non helpful.


----------



## Maxo

Wishes said:


> Oh but, you conveniently ignore the back drop of those questions. You forget “why” they were asked. Again, accept my invitation to review. I am thankful to the people on this forum who posted on this thread ‘truly’ wishing to be helpful, and you have been. Your criticism has been constructive, you have offered valid and well-reasoned explanations and opinions that have been hard but not harsh. I respect you greatly.
> Remember when you were a kid and another kid ran to the teacher or parent and “told on you”? We called people who did this “tattlers.” Being a tattletale was not a good thing but on this thread it is seems to be a badge of honor. In the last several days, I have become increasingly aware that any opportunity I had of receiving meaningful and unbiased guidance here has been seriously undermined by a pack or heartless, wicked, brainless scandal mongers.
> You know who you are. You portray yourselves as angels of light but you are anything but. With great delight you have slithered to another forum, in which my ex-husband has an active thread, in order to collect malicious information against me, and then, gleefully report back to this thread. Many of you, who have not directly gone to that forum, have made it known that you are receptive to any and all scraps and tidbits of garbage they collect against me.
> You tell me to leave my ex alone, however, you are annoying the hell out of him. Please take your own advice and leave him alone. You constantly remind me of the pain I brought to him, while you are actively engaged in being a royal pain in his ass. You have literally harassed the hell out of him, to the point that he has attempted to have all his posts removed. You don’t see a problem, which only goes to suggest how deeply in the fog you must be. In your mad rush to punish me, you have had no regard for yourselves or others. You castigate me for involving my children and then you do the same thing.
> I am not the first you have done this to and, sadly, I will not be the last. You continue on with impunity. When your hapless victims have finally had enough and cannot stomach any more or your ignorant, rude, and vile commentary, they abandon their thread, feeling like dirt, as you do a victory lap, he he, ha ha, haw haw, another one bites the dust. Then you slap each other on the back and brag about how quickly you ran them off and how effectively you were able to administer justice. You showed them and once again you punished somebody else for something that was done to you.
> Some of you have been on TAM for years and your early works actually indicate a warm beating heart. One can actually read your post and chart your moral decline. You consider yourselves beacons of righteousness and inquire as to how I could have degraded myself. Ask this same question of yourselves. How did you allow your moral decline to reach the point to where you have become nothing more than chickens pecking around in the barnyard searching for delicious morsels of **** to share on this thread? You ask how I could do such disgusting things behind my husband’s back; consider your own disgusting behavior. I look at you and find it much easier to live with myself. I am not so bad, after all. Indeed, you have helped me. Thank-you. and the damage you have so proudly inflicted. You ask how I could have involved my children when, in fact, you have also involved my children.
> I do not expect these simple words to resurrect your sense of compassion or empathy; quite the contrary. I believe it will be the impetus to effect the sinking of your claws even deeper into me as well as the next trusting, innocent victims who wonder into the vicinity of your lair.
> Even as I read your words of condemnation and reproach, I feel a deep sense of compassion and responsibility. I am sorry for you and I am sorry for my part in your being what you have become, and thankfully I can also say, “But by the grace of God, there goes I.” Sure, I did something terrible, but when I look at you, I realize I could have done something far, far worse.
> When someone triggers from reading my thread, I am horrified and even though I have met with reproach for being this way; I think I want to remain me. I have problems but this is not one of them.
> I am not the first you have done this to and I will not be the last. You continue on with impunity. When your hapless victims have finally had enough and cannot take anymore ignorant, rude and vile commentary; you taunt them, insult them and finally throw a hissy fit if they do not come back. You try and lure them back because you have come up with another tasty treat for them. One that will really fill them with shame and perhaps get you a few slaps on the back in the process. Once you decide they are gone for good, you then slap each other on the back and brag about how quickly you ran them off, all the while, being thankful that at least they stayed around long enough for you to get then in your sights and administer some justice.
> I realize it is myself and people like myself that have hurt you, but does that really give you the right to hurt others? You choose to stay, and come here and open the wounds day by day. I will probably choose to leave because I wish not to be further injected nor infected with your hateful, unyielding, bitter, self-righteous bull-ony. I assume you will use these words as a means to attack me (as you have done) and smugly sit behind your computer screens agreeing…he, he…ha, ha.. haw, haw…and another one’s gone, bites the dust, yea another ones gone, another ones gone and …..and this only goes to prove how deep in the fog you really are. The difference between you and I are: I will get better.


Well played: Defense-Offense technique with a smattering of victimhood and DARVO. Page 7 of the handbook, as I recall.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Ok Maxo - tell us all why YOU'RE the victim here. You called out DARVO - go ahead and back it up. Sounds to me like you're playing the DARVO card because you're butt-hurt for being called out.


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ok Maxo - tell us all why YOU'RE the victim here. You called out DARVO - go ahead and back it up. Sounds to me like you're playing the DARVO card because you're butt-hurt for being called out.



I claim no victimhood. Just calling it like I seeit. Textbook Darvo.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I've read the thread on SI and much of this one here. Based on the details provided about this affair, I don't see how R is possible. IMHO, it's the emasculation of the BH by both the WW and AP that was the most painful aspect. However, it was the willingness of the WW to risk turning his children against him to cover her tracks that was the evil that became unforgivable. I could not forgive if I was in the BH's shoes. Sorry OP, I think your relationship is unrecoverable.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I've read the thread on SI and much of this one here. Based on the details provided about this affair, I don't see how R is possible. IMHO, it's the emasculation of the BH by both the WW and AP that was the most painful aspect. However, it was the willingness of the WW to risk turning his children against him to cover her tracks that was the evil that became unforgivable. I could not forgive if I was in the BH's shoes. Sorry OP, I think your relationship is unrecoverable.


H may well have been controlling based on the few posts about the past on TAM (I give no credence to posts off this site). Perhaps he too has changed and seen how he contributed to a less than perfect marriage. We don't have facts - only one side of the story. Lonely husband is a good example of a hardened BH who changed, embraced his own demons, accepted his WW's remorse, and is working - HARD - on R. I have no opinion about Wishes prospects with EXH - my concern is for her recovery and growth and emotional health. But your thoughts may be correct - who knows.


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> H may well have been controlling based on the few posts about the past on TAM (I give no credence to posts off this site). Perhaps he too has changed and seen how he contributed to a less than perfect marriage. We don't have facts - only one side of the story. Lonely husband is a good example of a hardened BH who changed, embraced his own demons, accepted his WW's remorse, and is working - HARD - on R. I have no opinion about Wishes prospects with EXH - my concern is for her recovery and growth and emotional health. But your thoughts may be correct - who knows.


In her initial posts, she extolled him. Now,another.Non-specific allusion to some offense.
Which is it? Shifting sands do not a firm foundation make.


----------



## Billdan

There are inconsistencies between this and the SI description.
You say this:
"We never went to a MC
not three times, not two times, not even once.

I had been seeing a therapist 6 months before any of the texting problems. I had never been able to get ex-husband to go to therapy with me, even though, he was the reason I was there.
I will not go deeper into that because it will be interpreted as rug sweeping. I take responsibility for what I did.

I needed BH to understand what he had done to me. I knew the marriage was over, emails or no emails. The marriage was over. He wanted the emails, I wanted him to speak with my therapist. So, I offered him the emails if he would go to therapy with me. I was not trying to stonewall. I knew the marriage was over. I only wanted him to understand what he had done to me."

According to SI the second session focused on how your H would feel if you moved on and found another guy. In the context of the time, that sounds inconsistent with what you describe here and frankly an effort to convince him to give you another chance. That, along with the sudden visit by one of your daughters at your request, seems profoundly manipulative and cannot be squared with your statement here that you knew the marriage was over.

I am a former prosecutor. In that job you see people, good people, who find themselves making profoundly immoral decisions. In many cases, these decisions are made in panic, and are the result of a chain of events with end consequences that no one would have foreseen. Those cases are very sad. Like many prosecutors I would find myself trying to square the result the law required with notions of mercy. See the book Les Miserables. 

And I see some of that in your story. But less, I think, than you believe. You never seemed to reach a point in the story your H tells where you decided to tell the truth out of respect for him. There were so frequently conditions, or the involvement of other people. In many ways those actions say as much about your boundaries and your inner compass as the affair itself. They suggest that you were very used to and confident that you could get your own way.

I say all of this not to pile, but rather to offer an honest assessment of the facts. The statement quoted here still suggests you struggle with truthfully acknowledging your intentions.

I have no doubt you loved him, and wanted desperately to keep him. I believe that led you to do things out of panic. But like the decision to have the affair, the decisions you made in panic did not suggest you respected or honored your husband. You say you wanted him to see his therapist because you wanted "BH to understand what he had done to me". The focus is on you -not him. Now you may be trying to say here that you wanted to see how badly you felt for the affair, but in so doing you substitute your own evaluation of what he needed to hear rather than agreeing to his request.

My wife cheated on me. She struggled with the idea that I should know everything - she tried to manage the situation and me - believing that this was for the best. Eventually, and long after I gave up hope, she came to see how disrespectful that was. And so she stopped trying to control the situation - she told me everything and let me make my own decision. And in that act she saved our marriage.

You never got to that point. I think, had you you told the entire truth from the beginning, you would still be married. I don't think you have reached that point even today.


----------



## MEM2020

I read his entire thread earlier today. 

It was also perfectly obvious from the get go, that he was focused on 'being better', not 'feeling better'. Which is why he benefitted so greatly from the feedback he got. 

He is a class act. The real deal. 





TheTruthHurts said:


> H may well have been controlling based on the few posts about the past on TAM (I give no credence to posts off this site). Perhaps he too has changed and seen how he contributed to a less than perfect marriage. We don't have facts - only one side of the story. Lonely husband is a good example of a hardened BH who changed, embraced his own demons, accepted his WW's remorse, and is working - HARD - on R. I have no opinion about Wishes prospects with EXH - my concern is for her recovery and growth and emotional health. But your thoughts may be correct - who knows.


----------



## Adelais

Wishes said:


> Oh but, you conveniently ignore the back drop of those questions. You forget “why” they were asked. Again, accept my invitation to review. I am thankful to the people on this forum who posted on this thread ‘truly’ wishing to be helpful, and you have been. Your criticism has been constructive, you have offered valid and well-reasoned explanations and opinions that have been hard but not harsh. I respect you greatly.
> Remember when you were a kid and another kid ran to the teacher or parent and “told on you”? We called people who did this “tattlers.” Being a tattletale was not a good thing but on this thread it is seems to be a badge of honor. In the last several days, I have become increasingly aware that any opportunity I had of receiving meaningful and unbiased guidance here has been seriously undermined by a pack or heartless, wicked, brainless scandal mongers.
> You know who you are. You portray yourselves as angels of light but you are anything but. With great delight you have slithered to another forum, in which my ex-husband has an active thread, in order to collect malicious information against me, and then, gleefully report back to this thread. Many of you, who have not directly gone to that forum, have made it known that you are receptive to any and all scraps and tidbits of garbage they collect against me.
> You tell me to leave my ex alone, however, you are annoying the hell out of him. Please take your own advice and leave him alone. You constantly remind me of the pain I brought to him, while you are actively engaged in being a royal pain in his ass. You have literally harassed the hell out of him, to the point that he has attempted to have all his posts removed. You don’t see a problem, which only goes to suggest how deeply in the fog you must be. In your mad rush to punish me, you have had no regard for yourselves or others. You castigate me for involving my children and then you do the same thing.
> I am not the first you have done this to and, sadly, I will not be the last. You continue on with impunity. When your hapless victims have finally had enough and cannot stomach any more or your ignorant, rude, and vile commentary, they abandon their thread, feeling like dirt, as you do a victory lap, he he, ha ha, haw haw, another one bites the dust. Then you slap each other on the back and brag about how quickly you ran them off and how effectively you were able to administer justice. You showed them and once again you punished somebody else for something that was done to you.
> Some of you have been on TAM for years and your early works actually indicate a warm beating heart. One can actually read your post and chart your moral decline. You consider yourselves beacons of righteousness and inquire as to how I could have degraded myself. Ask this same question of yourselves. How did you allow your moral decline to reach the point to where you have become nothing more than chickens pecking around in the barnyard searching for delicious morsels of **** to share on this thread? You ask how I could do such disgusting things behind my husband’s back; consider your own disgusting behavior. I look at you and find it much easier to live with myself. I am not so bad, after all. Indeed, you have helped me. Thank-you. and the damage you have so proudly inflicted. You ask how I could have involved my children when, in fact, you have also involved my children.
> I do not expect these simple words to resurrect your sense of compassion or empathy; quite the contrary. I believe it will be the impetus to effect the sinking of your claws even deeper into me as well as the next trusting, innocent victims who wonder into the vicinity of your lair.
> Even as I read your words of condemnation and reproach, I feel a deep sense of compassion and responsibility. I am sorry for you and I am sorry for my part in your being what you have become, and thankfully I can also say, “But by the grace of God, there goes I.” Sure, I did something terrible, but when I look at you, I realize I could have done something far, far worse.
> When someone triggers from reading my thread, I am horrified and even though I have met with reproach for being this way; I think I want to remain me. I have problems but this is not one of them.
> I am not the first you have done this to and I will not be the last. You continue on with impunity. When your hapless victims have finally had enough and cannot take anymore ignorant, rude and vile commentary; you taunt them, insult them and finally throw a hissy fit if they do not come back. You try and lure them back because you have come up with another tasty treat for them. One that will really fill them with shame and perhaps get you a few slaps on the back in the process. Once you decide they are gone for good, you then slap each other on the back and brag about how quickly you ran them off, all the while, being thankful that at least they stayed around long enough for you to get then in your sights and administer some justice.
> I realize it is myself and people like myself that have hurt you, but does that really give you the right to hurt others? You choose to stay, and come here and open the wounds day by day. I will probably choose to leave because I wish not to be further injected nor infected with your hateful, unyielding, bitter, self-righteous bull-ony. I assume you will use these words as a means to attack me (as you have done) and smugly sit behind your computer screens agreeing…he, he…ha, ha.. haw, haw…and another one’s gone, bites the dust, yea another ones gone, another ones gone and …..and this only goes to prove how deep in the fog you really are. The difference between you and I are: I will get better.


Wishes, this is not the post of a healthy, stable person. You really need help.

ETA link to DARVO: http://pages.uoregon.edu/dynamic/jjf/defineDARVO.html


----------



## Adelais

Wishes said:


> Let me give you more to taunt, tease and laugh at me with.
> Although I had worked closely with this man for many, many years, when BH noticed I was texting more than normal, he shut it down immediately and demanded a full, detailed explanation as to why I was interested in texting “another man.” My explanation was honest and truthful. This was not “just” another man, this was a close personal friend. I was going through a very difficult situation at the time and he was there for me.
> 
> I was in charge of NYD in our company which required frequent travel to the West Coast where I would collaborate with the development team. This process was quite unpredictable, unstructured and oft-times chaotic which cultivated a certain amount or comradery between team members. We consulted much, before, during and after these trips in order to manage the NPD process whereby technical solutions had to be developed iteratively to solve given problems at every stage of the process. One particular member of my team, I have known for more than 28 years. Over that period of time, not only had we developed a close working relationship but an honest, healthy friendship as well. I affectionately referred to him as my surrogate father.
> 
> All was well. This was never an issue in my marital relationship with my husband. Several years ago, however, after an extremely successful launch of a new product, this friend and I began exchanging text messages and as the product continued to exceed all expectations, we began to communicate much through email and text messaging. My husband did not approve of my texting another man when it did not concern business. We argued much over this, till finally, I agreed to end the personnel friendship and limit our communications to business.
> 
> So, all this to say this: your saying I dismissed this with a “he’s just a friend…bit” is not the truth. I did not dismiss this. I was extremely agitated. I did (do) think ex was being unreasonable, controlling and jealous and told him so. This man was more of a father to me than was my biological father and 30 years my senior. After a lot of fuss and confusion, I obeyed my husband, ended the friendship, and I was deeply hurt.
> 
> Sometime later, I find out that my husband had taken it a step further and forced this person out of the company. Now, I was stunned and my husband absolutely felt justified in what he had done and indicated no remorse. Quite the contrary, he insisted that it was my blurring the boundaries between business and work that created this chain of events.
> 
> Now, I am sure you are going to do your, “well, you should have kept it simply business…bit.” For over 20 years when on the West Coast I stayed in this man’s home. His wife was and still is one of my best friends. I am the Godmother of their children and the first thing I did after being divorced was to convince him to come back to work for me.
> 
> You people, who are so apt at traveling from forum to forum, thread to thread, having everything figured out, before reading a damn word, I am sure will punch holes and find fault with this. You are your problem and none of my own.
> 
> Gus, as to my, “….just a friend bit…” You are mighty right, but also wrong. He is a friend, but not just a friend, he is a great friend and I am very sorry for what my ex-husband put him through. He did him a great injustice and I was wrong in acceding to it.


Where does this fall in your history? People have asked you several times to tell your story, and it is very difficult to put it together if you give it out of order. We can not help you if all you do is attack, defend, attack again, and play the victim.

I know you are hurting from losing your husband, your 3 daughters, and your lover. You are very alone. You must be feeling horribly lonely. You must let your guard down, not only to us, but to your own pain, so you can heal. All your attacking and venom will not endear anyone to you, Wishes. Stop fighting us. We want to help you heal and grow.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

MEM11363 said:


> I read his entire thread earlier today.
> 
> It was also perfectly obvious from the get go, that he was focused on 'being better', not 'feeling better'. Which is why he benefitted so greatly from the feedback he got.
> 
> He is a class act. The real deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> H may well have been controlling based on the few posts about the past on TAM (I give no credence to posts off this site). Perhaps he too has changed and seen how he contributed to a less than perfect marriage. We don't have facts - only one side of the story. Lonely husband is a good example of a hardened BH who changed, embraced his own demons, accepted his WW's remorse, and is working - HARD - on R. I have no opinion about Wishes prospects with EXH - my concern is for her recovery and growth and emotional health. But your thoughts may be correct - who knows.
Click to expand...

Is that a TAM thread? If so point it to me. If not, then your analysts had no bearing here. It's just gossip and allegations as far as I'm concerned. And frankly I'm pretty disappointed you'd drag that junk into this thread.


----------



## MattMatt

Wishes. I really felt for you at first.

But the more you have posted the more disappointed in you I have become.

It really IS all about you.

You had an affair and you used and abused your own daughters and your husband to cover up your affair.

You have psychologically damaged your husband and also psychologically damaged your daughters.

It is almost as if you do not consider them as real people, merely pawns in a game of chess. "Oops! I put my Queen in danger! Well I can regain my control of the game long term if I sacrifice a knight and a couple of pawns."

You are now blaming your husband for your affair. You say you do not blame him for your cheating but the truth is that your words tell a different story and you ARE now blaming him for your affair.

I think your IC was doomed to fail because I believe that it was highly unlikely that you told the truth to your counsellor throughout your sessions.

And the fact that your counselling failed under those circumstances is entirely on you, not your counsellor. They are not miracle workers. It is a case of GIGO.

I believe (based on my qualifications) that it is possible that you have unidentified and as a result untreated mental health issues that are possibly beyond the pay grade of a MC.

I think you need to book yourself in with a psychiatrist for an assessment of your mental health issues. I would guess something like NPD. 

Your use of your family members and your friends without any reference to the likely negative impact on them of your actions is the clue here.

You need treatment and the sooner you start this the better IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

TheTruthHurts said:


> Is that a TAM thread? If so point it to me. If not, then your analysts had no bearing here. It's just gossip and allegations as far as I'm concerned. And frankly I'm pretty disappointed you'd drag that junk into this thread.


Actually I think their analysis has great bearing on this matter.

Why? Because I fear Wishes decided to gaslight the whole of TAM with partial revelations of the truth and with a bit of manipulative behaviour. 

Oh! That is what she did with her OM, her husband and her children.

She hasn't moved on at all! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## eric1

I like Wishes but agree that she does need to surrender herself a bit if she's going to help herself. It's not so much a punishment thing but the act of making oneself vulnerable is an important step. 

I hope that she sticks around, finds that vulnerability and finds whatever it is that she is (really) looking for.


----------



## MattMatt

eric1 said:


> I like Wishes but agree that she does need to surrender herself a bit if she's going to help herself. It's not so much a punishment thing but the act of making oneself vulnerable is an important step.
> 
> I hope that she sticks around, finds that vulnerability and finds whatever it is that she is (really) looking for.


I think she wants to eat her cake and yet keep it uncut and in pristine condition.

She also wants, to quote the grandmother of a friend of mine: "the moon on a stick."

It really IS all about her wishes. Hmmm. Is the clue in the name she chose for TAM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

Just nipped back on here to see if she has finally posted a FULL account from her perspective of the start, during and 
after...IN A FULL UNEDITED ACCOUNT

Nope still allowing her self to explain to her husband through this board excerpts

ADD
The parts she wants to talk about of course


----------



## G.J.

My apologies if I missed it


----------



## TheTruthHurts

G.J. said:


> Just nipped back on here to see if she has finally posted a FULL account from her perspective of the start, during and
> after...IN A FULL UNEDITED ACCOUNT
> 
> Nope still allowing her self to explain to her husband through this board excerpts
> 
> ADD
> The parts she wants to talk about of course


Why should she?


----------



## bfree

TheTruthHurts said:


> Why should she?


I assume she came here to solicit people's opinions on her situation. If people don't know her situation they cannot offer relevant opinions.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

bfree said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should she?
> 
> 
> 
> I assume she came here to solicit people's opinions on her situation. If people don't know her situation they cannot offer relevant opinions.
Click to expand...

She didn't. That's the point. Or more specifically - her "situation" is NOT something that someone else wrote on another site.

TAM has been a great disappointment here. For some reason, many feel justified in assuming they know the "situation", which has never been revealed by Wishes, and then proceed to ask pointed questions and accusations about this alleged behavior.

I don't understand how you guys can't see what's in front of your face.

Let me give an extreme example to paint what I see going on. Let's assume Dexter - a serial killer - comes to TAM because he's on death row and feels terrible about what his kid and sister are about to go through when he's executed. He doesn't have the best social skills so he reaches out to TAM to help find a way to minimize their pain. 

Actually, Dexter doesn't even know what to ask, but he wants some help and an ear so he can work through this.

Then for the next 100 pages, TAM folks relive each of his murders, asking for details, telling him "you should have thought about your son then!", telling him about the victims' families, talking about God, talking about how white men are the primary serial killers and it's because white women are more attracted to black &[email protected]; and are never faithful anyway.

Meanwhile, Dexter never gets feedback on the real issues he came for.

Think about why Wished isn't litigating her past. Maybe she first needs to start to heal and see what her life can be like. Then maybe she can work through other issues once she is more stable.


----------



## TX-SC

TheTruthHurts said:


> She didn't. That's the point. Or more specifically - her "situation" is NOT something that someone else wrote on another site.
> 
> TAM has been a great disappointment here. For some reason, many feel justified in assuming they know the "situation", which has never been revealed by Wishes, and then proceed to ask pointed questions and accusations about this alleged behavior.
> 
> I don't understand how you guys can't see what's in front of your face.
> 
> Let me give an extreme example to paint what I see going on. Let's assume Dexter - a serial killer - comes to TAM because he's on death row and feels terrible about what his kid and sister are about to go through when he's executed. He doesn't have the best social skills so he reaches out to TAM to help find a way to minimize their pain.
> 
> Actually, Dexter doesn't even know what to ask, but he wants some help and an ear so he can work through this.
> 
> Then for the next 100 pages, TAM folks relive each of his murders, asking for details, telling him "you should have thought about your son then!", telling him about the victims' families, talking about God, talking about how white men are the primary serial killers and it's because white women are more attracted to black &[email protected]; and are never faithful anyway.
> 
> Meanwhile, Dexter never gets feedback on the real issues he came for.
> 
> Think about why Wished isn't litigating her past. Maybe she first needs to start to heal and see what her life can be like. Then maybe she can work through other issues once she is more stable.


Okay, lets assume the family of Dexter is on another forum telling us what Dexter did and how much pain it caused. Dexter comes on TAM and says it's not the whole story but yet won't tell us what's missing. It's kind of hard to sympathize with good old Dexter when his posts are generally full of venom and anger. All Dexter needs to do is tell his side. It's not rocket science. Once we know his side, perhaps we can help more. The family of the victims had a very good thread going and explained their pain very well. All Dexter did was say he's sorry. The venom from Dexter only shows us that Dexter does indeed have a temper. 

This is an infidelity forum. Expect people to respond to that aspect of the issue. She cheated and apparently said some very mean things about her BS in some conversations with the OM. If that's not the case, or there are mitigating factors, then tell us and we'll respond accordingly. 

SI has a WS forum where you can get sympathy from other WS with only a little backlash. If she only wants support, that's the place to be. If she wants to see what others think, THIS is the place to be.


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## SoulStorm

> SI has a WS forum where you can get sympathy from other WS with only a little backlash. If she only wants support, that's the place to be. If she wants to see what others think, THIS is the place to be.


SI does have a protected forum for waywards BS's are not allowed to 2x4 them, but WS's can swing them like Hank Aaron. And some do


----------



## azteca1986

TheTruthHurts said:


> Think about why Wished isn't litigating her past. *Maybe she first needs to start to heal* and see what her life can be like. Then maybe she can work through other issues once she is more stable.


Heal from what, exactly? 

So far she's alluded to the fact that we've not heard the whole story. And then chosen not tell her side of the story. And there's some story about a very good friend she had. Who was fired.


----------



## TX-SC

SoulStorm said:


> SI does have a protected forum for waywards BS's are not allowed to 2x4 them, but WS's can swing them like Hank Aaron. And some do


Actually, they can get their hand slapped too if they get too harsh.


----------



## bfree

TheTruthHurts said:


> She didn't. That's the point. Or more specifically - her "situation" is NOT something that someone else wrote on another site.


I'm not going to acknowledge the whole Dexter diatribe because it's unnecessarily extraneous. She came here, posted a very vague account of her situation and when posters asked her to elaborate their requests were met with silence. In an effort to acquire more information someone was able to figure out who her xH is and used his version of events to fill in the blanks here. If she wanted help with her situation and didn't want someone else's account of events to "pollute" her thread she should have clarified things herself. If I may be so bold I would suggest that her thinking hasn't changed from when she was neck deep in her affair. She is now blaming TAM posters for her own curt answers and inadequate elaboration. She has also blamed the mods for not coming to her defense fast enough and for not rebuffing posters hard enough. Blame, blame, blame but never where it truly belongs. I've seen many posters, both WS and BS receive life changing advice on TAM but only if they are open and honest. We are simply voices in cyberspace. We cannot hurt her in any way. I agree that this thread should be closed. She is obviously not receiving what she wants from TAM. Which is truly sad because had she been more receptive she could have received what she needs.


----------



## MEM2020

Bfree,

Well said. 




bfree said:


> I'm not going to acknowledge the whole Dexter diatribe because it's unnecessarily extraneous. She came here, posted a very vague account of her situation and when posters asked her to elaborate their requests were met with silence. In an effort to acquire more information someone was able to figure out who her xH is and used his version of events to fill in the blanks here. If she wanted help with her situation and didn't want someone else's account of events to "pollute" her thread she should have clarified things herself. If I may be so bold I would suggest that her thinking hasn't changed from when she was neck deep in her affair. She is now blaming TAM posters for her own curt answers and inadequate elaboration. She has also blamed the mods for not coming to her defense fast enough and for not rebuffing posters hard enough. Blame, blame, blame but never where it truly belongs. I've seen many posters, both WS and BS receive life changing advice on TAM but only if they are open and honest. We are simply voices in cyberspace. We cannot hurt her in any way. I agree that this thread should be closed. She is obviously not receiving what she wants from TAM. Which is truly sad because had she been more receptive she could have received what she needs.


----------



## NewPhoenix5

Wishes has had her questions answered for which she came, "Is there hope". We keep throwing in our 2 cents and ask for more information.

But what does she really need to know?

It is evident that she did not think DoneGone would read this thread and was unaware of his SI thread, so it wasn't to show her XH her remorse. Was it to get remorse, or more of it? She obviously did not come to have mud slung at her or hear, "you got what you deserve".

So what has the purpose of the thread become and what can we provide her? Obviously we care for Wishes and DoneGone's well being (together or not) or we would not be here, other than those who want to start up a verbal stoning...

Wishes doesn't want the stoning, and what does it serve her? She has already fully absorbed the consequences of her actions.

Perhaps it is to understand where she went wrong and how. She says she is "Not a Good Wife". It appears she was a very good wife before the affair but somewhere along the way she became broken, either by her FOO or by her husband or by the various cruelties of life. Eric1 said elsewhere, not on this post, "Wives get bored, feel entitled, bang some loser, and chaos ensues". Wishes, from her statements on this post, state her childhood was really rough and through some cryptic statements (and not wanting to throw XH under the bus) had disappointments in her marriage--her second point of view. Then the dying parents. It seems to me some resentment and life events came together to form a perfect storm that raged down on Wishes.

Now Wishes did not ask for her FOO issues. Her life's mission of sacrificing for her children was completed and her parents died, which were very traumatic for her. She did not have control over DoneGone's actions. (And if DoneGone only made a quarter of the mistakes I have, the list is still long). So perhaps the question Wishes wants to ask herself is, "Why is it that I screw up and consequences rain down, but everyone else in my life gets a pass on their poor behavior?" Their poor behavior rains down consequences on her too. What is fair in that?

She admits she got what she deserved and there is no excuse for her actions. OK, so that's clear.

What she may be wondering is "Where were all of these d*mn consequences in the first 45 years of her life prior to her affair?" Is there no clemency in this world for what happened before her breakdown?

I propose, that yes, one's past can mitigate the wrongs done. Yes, there is a pile of wrongs that can be weighed and considered that gets one emotionally trapped. Those wrongs and that history can and should be considered when one considers divorce or separation. It is not just "a wife gets bored and entitled". It is clear to me that Wishes was unmoored and buffeted by life events, that when temptation came around she was set up for a far greater likelihood of failure.

I view my wife's infidelity the same, though she had mostly different issues that got her unmoored.

But one issue that is the same as my WW here is *resentment*. It was said in one post that "humans cannot forgive". Perhaps so because we remember the pain.

I will take a religious t/j momentarily, which I am sure many will hate:

The model prayer:

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
(Opening praise and worship)

Give us this day our daily bread,
(Asking for the basics to survive)

And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
(Asking to be saved from the evil and poison of resentment)

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
(And all the other sins...)

For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, for ever and ever
(More praise)

OK, so I see from this that resentment is so bad, so insidious, so poisonous, it deserves a special place in the Lord's prayer.

I personally see "resentment" as the greatest driver of infidelity. I know in my soul that my wife betrayed me because of resentment. With her it was pervasive and still is present.

And now I have it too.

Wishes, please take a close look at your feelings for your ex-husband and those whom have wronged you. Identify and isolate those feelings of decades of resentment that the people in your life have heaped upon you with their actions. Pray with all your might that God may heal you of your resentment and be free of them. It is far too heavy a burden for you to carry, be it alone, with DoneGone, or whomever may come after.

Peace for you.


----------



## alte Dame

After reading DoneGone's posts today, it seems to me that TAM has done her a huge favor. It's giving her what she wants. DG feels terrible that she was dealt with here much less 'gently' than is standard on SI and is now deciding that he wants to date his ex.

This is exactly what she wants. She asked us if she had a chance. She may not have had any hope until her XH did his normal thing, which was to be protective and decent. He apparently couldn't stand seeing the woman he loved for so long being criticized so openly by people who are much less prone to offer virtual hugs to survive the hard stuff.

Wishes should be thanking us for inadvertently advancing her self-absorbed interest in getting her XH back. Unless she decides that she should work on herself rather than work on luring DG back in, however, the dysfunction that led to her A behavior will still be there.


----------



## sam59

alte Dame,

x 1000 ! You nailed it !!!


----------



## G.J.

She's got what she set out for if DoneGone is going to see her again

One of the biggest manipulators I've ever had the misfortune to read


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Lol you TAM folks are a bunch of self righteous know-it-alls. Not all - but many on this thread.

Good thing me and Wishes conspired to trigger your rage and win back EXH! You're absolutely right - no crazy tin foil conspiracies here!

I'd seriously like to ask you guys to calm down and think about your reactions to Wishes thread. Because there is a lot of really dysfunctional thinking and projection going on. You should look in the mirror and make sure you're not bringing this toxic thinking into your current relationships.

Admittedly, I've never been betrayed and I'm a high IQ guy, so I see things more clearly than many of you. But you can heal yourselves if you take the time to examine your thinking in a calm, rational manner.

Good luck.


----------



## SoulCrushed16

alte Dame,

I agree with you 100%.


----------



## G.J.

TheTruthHurts said:


> Admittedly, I've never been betrayed and I'm a high IQ guy, so I see things more clearly than many of you.
> Good luck.


:lol: :rofl:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gzs9fBTRsmM

.


----------



## 3putt

G.J. said:


> :lol: :rofl:


You have no idea how much restraint it took for me to not respond to that comment of his.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

alte Dame said:


> After reading DoneGone's posts today, it seems to me that TAM has done her a huge favor. It's giving her what she wants. DG feels terrible that she was dealt with here much less 'gently' than is standard on SI and is now deciding that he wants to date his ex.
> 
> This is exactly what she wants. She asked us if she had a chance. She may not have had any hope until her XH did his normal thing, which was to be protective and decent. He apparently couldn't stand seeing the woman he loved for so long being criticized so openly by people who are much less prone to offer virtual hugs to survive the hard stuff.
> 
> Wishes should be thanking us for inadvertently advancing her self-absorbed interest in getting her XH back. Unless she decides that she should work on herself rather than work on luring DG back in, however, the dysfunction that led to her A behavior will still be there.


If DG is feeling compelled to date his ex again because of the treatment she received here, then the man learned nothing from his ordeal. Fool me once shame on you but full me twice? He will own that one...


----------



## MattMatt

TheTruthHurts said:


> Lol you TAM folks are a bunch of self righteous know-it-alls. Not all - but many on this thread.
> 
> Good thing me and Wishes conspired to trigger your rage and win back EXH! You're absolutely right - no crazy tin foil conspiracies here!
> 
> I'd seriously like to ask you guys to calm down and think about your reactions to Wishes thread. Because there is a lot of really dysfunctional thinking and projection going on. You should look in the mirror and make sure you're not bringing this toxic thinking into your current relationships.
> 
> Admittedly, I've never been betrayed and I'm a high IQ guy, so I see things more clearly than many of you. But you can heal yourselves if you take the time to examine your thinking in a calm, rational manner.
> 
> Good luck.


You have a high I.Q. and you have never been betrayed.

Not _*entirely*_ certain this has any relevance to this thread, but thank you for those thoughts.


----------



## Evinrude58

Between the genius who sees things more clearly than the normal guys, 
and the genius/jock/military hero/best lover in history/swinger/40-year-married guy that has had over 5000 threesomes, I'm feeling pretty inqualified to post here. I feel blessed just to read their posts.

OP, way to go on the ex dating. It appears that you have what you wanted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigfoot

Brief T/J. I would hope that folks don't flip back and forth between DG's thread and this one and cross post/respond. While I have my own suspicions about such threads, I also don't find it productive.

Its polarizing as people descend into camps. Its not therapeutic as posters are forced to almost give an account for their spouse's perceptions, as if there own perceptions are not valid. It also promotes competition between spouses (exes). Sort of a, "let's see who the gang thinks is right". None is productive to me.

End T/J.


----------



## MattMatt

I still feel Wishes should see a psychiatrist for an assessment.

If I were a gambling man I would put a Dollar on something like NPD or a BPD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adelais

TheTruthHurts said:


> Lol *you TAM folks* are a bunch of self righteous know-it-alls. Not all - but many on this thread.
> 
> Good thing me and Wishes conspired to trigger your rage and win back EXH! You're absolutely right - no crazy tin foil conspiracies here!
> 
> I'd seriously like to ask *you guys* to calm down and think about your reactions to Wishes thread. Because there is a lot of really dysfunctional thinking and projection going on. You should look in the mirror and make sure you're not bringing this toxic thinking into your current relationships.
> 
> Admittedly, *I've never been betrayed and I'm a high IQ guy, so I see things more clearly than many of you*. But you can heal yourselves if you take the time to examine your thinking in a calm, rational manner.
> 
> Good luck.


You have 900+ posts here and you have audacity to say "you TAM folks."

You haven't been cheated on, and yet you are Mr. Expert?

me and Wishes should be "Wishes and I"....even this average IQ gal knows that. 

Good luck to you!


----------



## tseratievig

A high IQ guy doesn't have to say "I'm a high IQ guy".


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> Lol you TAM folks are a bunch of self righteous know-it-alls. Not all - but many on this thread.
> 
> Good thing me and Wishes conspired to trigger your rage and win back EXH! You're absolutely right - no crazy tin foil conspiracies here!
> 
> I'd seriously like to ask you guys to calm down and think about your reactions to Wishes thread. Because there is a lot of really dysfunctional thinking and projection going on. You should look in the mirror and make sure you're not bringing this toxic thinking into your current relationships.
> 
> Admittedly, I've never been betrayed and I'm a high IQ guy, so I see things more clearly than many of you. But you can heal yourselves if you take the time to examine your thinking in a calm, rational manner.
> 
> Good luck.


Oh, I did not realze you were a high I Q guy. In that case, I am sorry I did not agree with you,initially. My bad.


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> Lol you TAM folks are a bunch of self righteous know-it-alls. Not all - but many on this thread.
> 
> Good thing me and Wishes conspired to trigger your rage and win back EXH! You're absolutely right - no crazy tin foil conspiracies here!
> 
> I'd seriously like to ask you guys to calm down and think about your reactions to Wishes thread. Because there is a lot of really dysfunctional thinking and projection going on. You should look in the mirror and make sure you're not bringing this toxic thinking into your current relationships.
> 
> Admittedly, I've never been betrayed and I'm a high IQ guy, so I see things more clearly than many of you. But you can heal yourselves if you take the time to examine your thinking in a calm, rational manner.
> 
> Good luck.


Shouldn' t that read : "wishes and I" , Mr. High I.Q.?


----------



## farsidejunky

I don't even know how to spell IQ (eye cue?) so I will have to bow out.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## eric1

TheTruthHurts said:


> She didn't. That's the point. Or more specifically - her "situation" is NOT something that someone else wrote on another site.
> 
> TAM has been a great disappointment here. For some reason, many feel justified in assuming they know the "situation", which has never been revealed by Wishes, and then proceed to ask pointed questions and accusations about this alleged behavior.
> 
> I don't understand how you guys can't see what's in front of your face.
> 
> Let me give an extreme example to paint what I see going on. Let's assume Dexter - a serial killer - comes to TAM because he's on death row and feels terrible about what his kid and sister are about to go through when he's executed. He doesn't have the best social skills so he reaches out to TAM to help find a way to minimize their pain.
> 
> Actually, Dexter doesn't even know what to ask, but he wants some help and an ear so he can work through this.
> 
> Then for the next 100 pages, TAM folks relive each of his murders, asking for details, telling him "you should have thought about your son then!", telling him about the victims' families, talking about God, talking about how white men are the primary serial killers and it's because white women are more attracted to black &[email protected]; and are never faithful anyway.
> 
> Meanwhile, Dexter never gets feedback on the real issues he came for.
> 
> Think about why Wished isn't litigating her past. Maybe she first needs to start to heal and see what her life can be like. Then maybe she can work through other issues once she is more stable.



I think that it is presumptive for anyone to know the situation. There have been a few folks over the years who I've gotten to know very well and even then I don't think that I know enough to be giving blanket statements like 'should you divorce?'. 

That's not to say that we all don't have a strong feeling in our guys as to what some action should be.

In this case Wishes is looking for help. I mean it's pretty obvious, she hasn't had limited three word posts and she's even managed to help others. She's not into manipulating her husband, because if she were it likely would not be here. I don't see the sense in not helping her, it's pretty obvious she knows what she did was wrong.

Onto Wishes it does speak well to her that she was willing to take a few punches to the jaw. She probably deserved them. She will admit that too. However that's not the way to get people to do things. 

My first (real) boss once told me that the key to both sales and managing were the same - paraphrasing - to get folks to do what you wanted by making them think that it was their idea. Here , and other sites, there seems to be a stress of coaching towards an outcome (I still have the screen caps of 'not being allowed' to recommend divorce on SI lol) whereby the correct method (I believe) is to go into it with the mindset that you are their journal, and you talk back to that individual person in a manner which will help them the most. That's why I only dedicate time to folks who put in the work, you get to know them well enough that you know what makes them tick. Sometimes you play the role of that annoying gnat who will not go away - I do this a lot particularly to those around d-day when folks are likely to rug sweep. Sometimes you are simply a sympathetic ear. Sometimes you are the a$$hole. Sometimes you are the friend.

The reason I say that is that Wishes isn't going to get her answers on any Internet forum, but she will definitely get the chance to participate. Why not nibble around the edges when it's clear she is getting pushed towards the edge? 

I know the top folks on most sites and right now in this thread, although their usernames may be different in some cases, is the best collection of minds that the Internet has to offer. This is an incredible chance for her to get that advice she's looking for. It would be a shame (and I wouldn't blame her) if she didn't think that it was worth her time because the signal to noise ratio was so off-kilter.


----------



## SoulCrushed16

TheTruthHurts said:


> Admittedly, I've never been betrayed and I'm a high IQ guy, so I see things more clearly than many of you. But you can heal yourselves if you take the time to examine your thinking in a calm, rational manner.
> 
> Good luck.


WTF??? 
So because you have a high IQ you are more qualified than other TAMers here to give advice? Don't forget you've never and I quote been "betrayed" before.


----------



## SoulCrushed16

Maxo said:


> Shouldn' t that read : "wishes and I" , Mr. High I.Q.?


My sentiments exactly!! LOL!! Some people ehh??


----------



## SoulCrushed16

So did OP get back together with ExH? I think a poster said they were dating now?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

eric1 said:


> I think that it is presumptive for anyone to know the situation. There have been a few folks over the years who I've gotten to know very well and even then I don't think that I know enough to be giving blanket statements like 'should you divorce?'.
> 
> That's not to say that we all don't have a strong feeling in our guys as to what some action should be.
> 
> In this case Wishes is looking for help. I mean it's pretty obvious, she hasn't had limited three word posts and she's even managed to help others. She's not into manipulating her husband, because if she were it likely would not be here. I don't see the sense in not helping her, it's pretty obvious she knows what she did was wrong.
> 
> Onto Wishes it does speak well to her that she was willing to take a few punches to the jaw. She probably deserved them. She will admit that too. However that's not the way to get people to do things.
> 
> My first (real) boss once told me that the key to both sales and managing were the same - paraphrasing - to get folks to do what you wanted by making them think that it was their idea. Here , and other sites, there seems to be a stress of coaching towards an outcome (I still have the screen caps of 'not being allowed' to recommend divorce on SI lol) whereby the correct method (I believe) is to go into it with the mindset that you are their journal, and you talk back to that individual person in a manner which will help them the most. That's why I only dedicate time to folks who put in the work, you get to know them well enough that you know what makes them tick. Sometimes you play the role of that annoying gnat who will not go away - I do this a lot particularly to those around d-day when folks are likely to rug sweep. Sometimes you are simply a sympathetic ear. Sometimes you are the a$$hole. Sometimes you are the friend.
> 
> The reason I say that is that Wishes isn't going to get her answers on any Internet forum, but she will definitely get the chance to participate. Why not nibble around the edges when it's clear she is getting pushed towards the edge?
> 
> I know the top folks on most sites and right now in this thread, although their usernames may be different in some cases, is the best collection of minds that the Internet has to offer. This is an incredible chance for her to get that advice she's looking for. It would be a shame (and I wouldn't blame her) if she didn't think that it was worth her time because the signal to noise ratio was so off-kilter.


This is good stuff, eric1

There have been a lot of presumptions made throughout this thread by many.

You guys know me around here. I am not known to cut women slack just because they are women. You also know I call abuse when I see it in a situation. This one will be no different. You also know I do not coddle waywards.

So I ask you... Why would I handle her completely differently? When have you guys seen me take the current approach I have with her? There is something here guys. And I think everyone needs to check up a bit and slow the roll on this one. Some well respected posters are not catching some things. I'm asking all of you to chill and pay closer attention.


----------



## sparrow555

Haha.. started reading the thread midway after a long time and all I see are Bible, God and proverbs.

WTF ?


----------



## eric1

Blossom Leigh said:


> This is good stuff, eric1
> 
> There have been a lot of presumptions made throughout this thread by many.
> 
> You guys know me around here. I am not known to cut women slack just because they are women. You also know I call abuse when I see it in a situation. This one will be no different. You also know I do not coddle waywards.
> 
> *So I ask you... Why would I handle her completely differently? When have you guys seen me take the current approach I have with her? There is something here guys.* And I think everyone needs to check up a bit and slow the roll on this one. Some well respected posters are not catching some things. I'm asking all of you to chill and pay closer attention.


I'm familiar with your approach and don't think that it's necessarily bad in this case. 

Even if it was "bad" I think that there is strength in diverse opinion. The problem for me arises when one or two posters tend to try to dominate a discussion for the purposes of influencing the tone of the dialogue. If you have a good opinion then it should be able to stand on it's own. 

My point - even if you have an opinion which could be considered incendiary - if it's delivered in a different package, then it might serve a greater purpose.

Not directed at you, again I honestly don't remember any of your posts in this thread so they must not have stuck out.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Blossom Leigh said:


> Good Lord Wishes, what the hell have you been through. I can feel your pain at a visceral gut level. The more you talk, the more I am holding back tears that want to come flooding out. Whatever it is, I am deeply sorry for your pain. I may be way off base but from this side it feels like you've been through the bowels of hell only to survive and here talking to us.





eric1 said:


> I'm familiar with your approach and don't think that it's necessarily bad in this case.
> 
> Even if it was "bad" I think that there is strength in diverse opinion. The problem for me arises when one or two posters tend to try to dominate a discussion for the purposes of influencing the tone of the dialogue. If you have a good opinion then it should be able to stand on it's own.
> 
> My point - even if you have an opinion which could be considered incendiary - if it's delivered in a different package, then it might serve a greater purpose.
> 
> Not directed at you, again I honestly don't remember any of your posts in this thread so they must not have stuck out.


It was just this one and another one recognizing how intelligent she is.

None of us are telling her things she doesn't already know, so I appreciated your perspective in your post eric1.


----------



## sparrow555

Wishes said:


> I take no responsibility for the tone of this thread. I have been very silent throughout the "tone" of this thread. Only when I spoke up was the "tone" of this thread addressed.
> There is tough love to be kind, and then there is "being cruel to hurt, wound and destroy."


A bit late into the whole discussion but when posters feel that you are being dishonest with the details or that you are being manipulative, there will be a backlash. 

The way you started the thread, the way you trickled the details, the way you were outed and the way you actually responded to some of the initial posters, intentional or not, you had responsibility on how this is turning out. You barely answered any questions and danced around the details. Of course the details are important and people are going to ask them. That is the least you could offer the people taking time of their life and trying to help you. 

Maybe some posters intentions are less honorable than the others but that is why you post on an anonymous internet forum and that is why people are not charging you for it. It comes with the territory of the internet.


----------



## sparrow555

Blossom Leigh said:


> It was just this one and another one recognizing how intelligent she is.
> 
> None of us are telling her things she doesn't already know, so I appreciated your perspective in your post eric1.


Intelligent as in how she writes and her use of vocabulary ?

If you go by her infidelity story, her OM is one the lamest and biggest losers I've ever read about in these forums. I honestly would question the intelligence of any one who would be impressed by a guy like him, leave about having an affair for several months 

His sexting was cringe-worthy, his insults were lame, unemployed and plays Xbox all day at his age. Got his ass beat by Wishes ex-husband, kicked out in the divorce and last I remember, lives in a trailer. Might have got a few details wrong but it was pretty low standards even for an OM


Actually I looked at a small paragraphs from her rant/quote.




> I do not expect these simple words to *resurrect *your sense of compassion or empathy; quite the contrary. I believe it will be the *impetus *to effect the *sinking of your claws* even deeper into me as well as the next *trusting*, innocent victims who *wonder *into the *vicinity of your lair. *


**wander**

The writing style makes me think that she does that at some level of professional capacity. Some kind of Fiction maybe ?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

sparrow555 said:


> Intelligent as in how she writes and her use of vocabulary ?
> 
> If you go by her infidelity story, her OM is one the lamest and biggest losers I've ever read about in these forums. I honestly would question the intelligence of any one who would be impressed by a guy like him, leave about having an affair for several months
> 
> His sexting was cringe-worthy, his insults were lame, unemployed and plays Xbox all day at his age. Got his ass beat by Wishes ex-husband, kicked out in the divorce and last I remember, lives in a trailer. Might have forgotten a few details wrong but it was pretty low standards even for an OM


That didn't get past me.... 

But self destructive decision and lack of intelligence are not always synonymous.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

sparrow555 said:


> Intelligent as in how she writes and her use of vocabulary ?
> 
> If you go by her infidelity story, her OM is one the lamest and biggest losers I've ever read about in these forums. I honestly would question the intelligence of any one who would be impressed by a guy like him, leave about having an affair for several months
> 
> His sexting was cringe-worthy, his insults were lame, unemployed and plays Xbox all day at his age. Got his ass beat by Wishes ex-husband, kicked out in the divorce and last I remember, lives in a trailer. Might have forgotten a few details wrong but it was pretty low standards even for an OM
> 
> 
> Actually I looked at a small paragraphs from her rant/quote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **wander**
> 
> The writing style makes me think that she does that at some level of professional capacity. Some kind of Fiction maybe ?


Hell for all we know that could have been auto correct... come on sparrow... I don't think its necessary to be unreasonably cruel even IF she employed cruelty in her choices. It does not warrant that we have to do the same and pile on top of those choices. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## sparrow555

Blossom Leigh said:


> Hell for all we know that could have been auto correct... come on sparrow... I don't think its necessary to be unreasonably cruel even IF she employed cruelty in her choices. It does not warrant that we have to do the same and pile on top of those choices. That's all I'm saying.


 That wasn't the intention in my mind when I posted it. I was making an observation with the kind of language she was using by highlighting the specific words. I think I red bold it out of some old habit when I saw the spelling mistake.

I honestly did not intend it to be cruel(and still don't think it is) and I can remove it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

sparrow555 said:


> That wasn't the intention in my mind when I posted it. I was making an observation with the kind of language she was using by highlighting the specific words. I think I red bold it out of some old habit when I saw the spelling mistake.
> 
> I honestly did not intend it to be cruel(and still don't think it is) and I can remove it.


I'm glad and if I misread your intent, I apologize sparrow..


----------



## wmn1

alte Dame said:


> After reading DoneGone's posts today, it seems to me that TAM has done her a huge favor. It's giving her what she wants. DG feels terrible that she was dealt with here much less 'gently' than is standard on SI and is now deciding that he wants to date his ex.
> 
> This is exactly what she wants. She asked us if she had a chance. She may not have had any hope until her XH did his normal thing, which was to be protective and decent. He apparently couldn't stand seeing the woman he loved for so long being criticized so openly by people who are much less prone to offer virtual hugs to survive the hard stuff.
> 
> Wishes should be thanking us for inadvertently advancing her self-absorbed interest in getting her XH back. Unless she decides that she should work on herself rather than work on luring DG back in, however, the dysfunction that led to her A behavior will still be there.




I agree with this completely Alte Dame. Completely


----------



## wmn1

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If DG is feeling compelled to date his ex again because of the treatment she received here, then the man learned nothing from his ordeal. Fool me once shame on you but full me twice? He will own that one...



yepper. Agreed


----------



## manfromlamancha

I read DoneGone's thread regularly and he has not really said that. He did however unleash a (deserved) scathing attack on the fact that Wishes thought she was broken when in fact she was not at all - she had it together right up until and through every step of the planned betrayal. I am not to sure that he wants to date her either. So I don't know where all this is coming from, but there are quite a few on SI (just as on TAM) that are reminding him that he didn't do anything to bring the cheating on and that his betrayal was quite vicious (I would have had the POSOM boiled alive in oil)!

I don't know what Wishes wants to achieve here and as someone said, perhaps we should ask her what she is trying to achieve here.


----------



## eric1

I do not think that anything here or there would influence DoneGone to do anything. Infidelity is a roller coaster and what we're seeing is one of those hills.


----------



## eric1

manfromlamancha said:


> I read DoneGone's thread regularly and he has not really said that. He did however unleash a (deserved) scathing attack on the fact that Wishes thought she was broken when in fact she was not at all - she had it together right up until and through every step of the planned betrayal. I am not to sure that he wants to date her either. So I don't know where all this is coming from, but there are quite a few on SI (just as on TAM) that are reminding him that he didn't do anything to bring the cheating on and that his betrayal was quite vicious (I would have had the POSOM boiled alive in oil)!
> 
> I don't know what Wishes wants to achieve here and as someone said, perhaps we should ask her what she is trying to achieve here.


All he has really committed to is going to counseling with her. Frankly even after what she did I think that counseling is a great idea. Even with grown children, a separated couple who can co-exist, atleast be in the same room, is an amazing gift to the children . Not only that, but I believe that they are in business together so there is that consideration as well.


----------



## convert

Wishes, your ex husband (donegone) wanted to meet for coffee just recently, why did you decline?


----------



## Adelais

manfromlamancha said:


> I read DoneGone's thread regularly and he has not really said that. He did however unleash a (deserved) scathing attack on the fact that Wishes thought she was broken when in fact she was not at all - she had it together right up until and through every step of the planned betrayal. I am not to sure that he wants to date her either. So I don't know where all this is coming from, but there are quite a few on SI (just as on TAM) that are reminding him that he didn't do anything to bring the cheating on and that his betrayal was quite vicious (I would have had the POSOM boiled alive in oil)!
> 
> I don't know what Wishes wants to achieve here and as someone said, perhaps we should ask her what she is trying to achieve here.


I reread DG's posts and I agree with you. Wishes is not the abused wife I was beginning to think she is. I've delete my previous post.


----------



## G.J.

The way she used her children I would be reluctant for her to parent my cat until she gets her self in I.C. and some deep questioning

She used anything at her disposal to help her

Perhaps I've misread some of DogGones posts though

Perhaps I've looked into the way she has used this board wrongly as well

Perhaps.......


----------



## Fitnessfan

Wishes, I pray it is true that there might be some hope for you and DG. It would be really great to see that considering you have been a family for so many years and have children together and it seems that DG still loves you. I hope your family finds the strength to get through this and you are able to give yourself some compassion for the mistakes you made that led to this. I pray for your whole family that you are all able to heal. Even good people can make horrible mistakes. I hope the bond of your family is able to become whole again.


----------



## ConanHub

I don't hope for her to get the marriage back she utterly destroyed.

I do hope she gets healthy.

She is very far from a good bet right now but with very hard work, she could be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wmn1

manfromlamancha said:


> I read DoneGone's thread regularly and he has not really said that. He did however unleash a (deserved) scathing attack on the fact that Wishes thought she was broken when in fact she was not at all - she had it together right up until and through every step of the planned betrayal. I am not to sure that he wants to date her either. So I don't know where all this is coming from, but there are quite a few on SI (just as on TAM) that are reminding him that he didn't do anything to bring the cheating on and that his betrayal was quite vicious (I would have had the POSOM boiled alive in oil)!
> 
> I don't know what Wishes wants to achieve here and as someone said, perhaps we should ask her what she is trying to achieve here.



DG doesn't know what he wants. he goes back and forth but right now is in a period of self blame that is really concerning. He should not be blamed for Wishes' betrayal of him.


----------



## blahfridge

I don't know how anyone can come back from what wishes and her H have been through. I am struggling with whether or not it is possible in my own situation. It takes a very special kind of person to be able to put it all behind them and say, "the past is past - let's bury it and move forward." I am in awe of those here who can truly reconcile after the devastation of infidelity. I hope for your sake and your H's, wishes, that it is possible for the two of you. From what you've written and the little I've read of his thread on SI, it is apparent that you both love each other. I hope that love is enough to carry you both over to the other side.


----------



## blahfridge

wmn1 said:


> DG doesn't know what he wants. he goes back and forth but right now is in a period of self blame that is really concerning. He should not be blamed for Wishes' betrayal of him.


I read his thread and I don't see that he is blaming himself for her affair at all. I think what he's saying is that he wishes that he had treated her with more compassion and understanding before the affair happened. That's very different and actually healthy for him to see. Whether he reconciles with her or not, he needs to work on his own issues and his agreement to see a counselor finally is a step in the right direction.


----------



## Maxo

I hope the guy acquaints himself with the information about Cluster B disorders.


----------



## Maxo

SoulCrushed16 said:


> WTF???
> So because you have a high IQ you are more qualified than other TAMers here to give advice? Don't forget you've never and I quote been "betrayed" before.


I would not take his word on the high IQ deal,based on what he has posted.


----------



## wmn1

blahfridge said:


> I read his thread and I don't see that he is blaming himself for her affair at all. I think what he's saying is that he wishes that he had treated her with more compassion and understanding before the affair happened. That's very different and actually healthy for him to see. Whether he reconciles with her or not, he needs to work on his own issues and his agreement to see a counselor finally is a step in the right direction.


yeah, blahfridge. I read it differently than you but that's ok.

he is being so hard on himself today that the lines are blurred. He's showing an openness to rekindling and accused himself of mental, physical and emotional torture and it is well hidden in his words that he's blaming himself. Or at least to me he is.

But we'll agree to disagree.

On the other hand, i think his guilt is so severe that his deciding to reconcile with her based on his 'bad treatment of her' or whatever he means by that, is IMO a bad decision. IMO Wishes came here contrite and has shown a different side of herself as of late and she did manipulate him very badly after he discovered the infidelity.

On the other hand, if he is truly serious on giving her another shot, he should stop dating around and get it over with. 

I have stated my opinion here and there on SI that I think it won't come out well. Too much damage but DG is not of rational mind right now. My opinion


----------



## Blossom Leigh

*This is what I am picking up on...*



Wishes said:


> One of my therapist said it was my attempt at self-medicating a *traumatic childhood*. If that be the case, I am here to say that it did not work, it only left me feeling angry, empty and filled with more self-loathing. My upbringing was inconsistent and *horrifically verbally and physically abusive particularly from my daddy*; so yes, I have serious daddy issues, but I never had issues with my husband.




*This is her why...*



Wishes said:


> *Why did I write all this? Because I want my husband back and I will wait for him. *


*



And a reminder about no bashing as requested by Wishes

*


Wishes said:


> *Please, try not to bash me*. *I have already lost everything. There is nothing you could say to me that I do not already know. * I am asking for something constructive to help me either, move on with my life, or continue in this holding pattern indefinitely. I would so appreciate any and all advice because I truly do not know how to move forward.



Now I know why I was picking up on some deep pain in her that was beyond the affair, though I did not know the details yet. I knew there was something there. Just now I thought I would go back to her original post and search for clues as to why my deep empath side was triggered with her and there it was... she wasn't an abused wife... *she was a severely abused child*. It doesn't excuse the affair choice, but it explains what I was hearing in her words right before telling her I could hear her pain and how deep it was. I felt compelled to pray for her and grieve for her right before I told her what I was sensing. 

There is only two other persons I have had that reaction to and one was a man SEVERELY abused growing up the other was a woman I saw arrested on TV. I could see it and feel it on her the depth of hell she endured as if I WAS her. I don't fully understand how I can pick up on that in some persons to the degree that I do. I haven't figured out the connection between the one's that I have but I agree with you @ConanHub I want healing for her in every way.


----------



## NewPhoenix5

blahfridge said:


> I don't know how anyone can come back from what wishes and her H have been through. I am struggling with whether or not it is possible in my own situation. It takes a very special kind of person to be able to put it all behind them and say, "the past is past - let's bury it and move forward." I am in awe of those here who can truly reconcile after the devastation of infidelity. I hope for your sake and your H's, wishes, that it is possible for the two of you. From what you've written and the little I've read of his thread on SI, it is apparent that you both love each other. I hope that love is enough to carry you both over to the other side.


Love is not enough, by itself to reconcile. In my case my wife and I love each other very, very much. But I struggle with staying with her and not filing for D. Marriage is so much more than love.

Power - There must be some power sharing arrangement that both can live with

Respect - Respect for each others individuality regarding temperament, space, control, passions, thoughts, love and many other preferences

Boundaries - knowing where you begin and I end. We need to acknowledge each others boundaries and be attentive to them. They will differ greatly from person to person. The golden rule, Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, doesn't work in marriage--it is not nearly enough.

Goals and Dreams - Are you two moving in the same direction regarding what you want in and out of life?

I'm sure there are lots of books on the subject, but I now see that the promises of fidelity and the feelings and intent of love are not enough to sustain a marriage. There is so much more.

At least that is my experience.


----------



## blahfridge

wmn1 said:


> blahfridge said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read his thread and I don't see that he is blaming himself for her affair at all. I think what he's saying is that he wishes that he had treated her with more compassion and understanding before the affair happened. That's very different and actually healthy for him to see. Whether he reconciles with her or not, he needs to work on his own issues and his agreement to see a counselor finally is a step in the right direction.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, blahfridge. I read it differently than you but that's ok.
> 
> he is being so hard on himself today that the lines are blurred. He's showing an openness to rekindling and accused himself of mental, physical and emotional torture and it is well hidden in his words that he's blaming himself. Or at least to me he is.
> 
> But we'll agree to disagree.
> 
> On the other hand, i think his guilt is so severe that his deciding to reconcile with her based on his 'bad treatment of her' or whatever he means by that, is IMO a bad decision. IMO Wishes came here contrite and has shown a different side of herself as of late and she did manipulate him very badly after he discovered the infidelity.
> 
> On the other hand, if he is truly serious on giving her another shot, he should stop dating around and get it over with.
> 
> I have stated my opinion here and there on SI that I think it won't come out well. Too much damage but DG is not of rational mind right now. My opinion
Click to expand...

We're not really far apart here at all. I think there may be too much damage as well, but it's worthwhile for them to try and especially for him to work on himself. He needs that whether he ends up back with his wife or not.


----------



## wmn1

blahfridge said:


> We're not really far apart here at all. I think there may be too much damage as well, but it's worthwhile for them to try and especially for him to work on himself. He needs that whether he ends up back with his wife or not.


agreed


----------



## blahfridge

NewPhoenix5 said:


> blahfridge said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how anyone can come back from what wishes and her H have been through. I am struggling with whether or not it is possible in my own situation. It takes a very special kind of person to be able to put it all behind them and say, "the past is past - let's bury it and move forward." I am in awe of those here who can truly reconcile after the devastation of infidelity. I hope for your sake and your H's, wishes, that it is possible for the two of you. From what you've written and the little I've read of his thread on SI, it is apparent that you both love each other. I hope that love is enough to carry you both over to the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> Love is not enough, by itself to reconcile. In my case my wife and I love each other very, very much. But I struggle with staying with her and not filing for D. Marriage is so much more than love.
> 
> Power - There must be some power sharing arrangement that both can live with
> 
> Respect - Respect for each others individuality regarding temperament, space, control, passions, thoughts, love and many other preferences
> 
> Boundaries - knowing where you begin and I end. We need to acknowledge each others boundaries and be attentive to them. They will differ greatly from person to person. The golden rule, Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, doesn't work in marriage--it is not nearly enough.
> 
> Goals and Dreams - Are you two moving in the same direction regarding what you want in and out of life?
> 
> I'm sure there are lots of books on the subject, but I now see that the promises of fidelity and the feelings and intent of love are not enough to sustain a marriage. There is so much more.
> 
> At least that is my experience.
Click to expand...

True on all points, NP5. I too love my H but it isn't enough to get me past all the resentments and disappointments I have endured over the years stemming from his treatment of me and his multiple affairs. We also have basic, long standing compatibility issues. I stupidly thought my own EA would help me get past those feelings but it only added to my confusion and despair. 

I don't know where we will end up, I do know that there will have to be a reckoning someday between us and that I both dread and look forward to that day. Good luck to you on your journey. Wherever it takes you, I hope you make it there safely and with peace and dignity.


----------



## Adelais

He does believe that somehow he drove her to cheat on him: " I was blind with anger [over the friend who was not an AP] and I had built a case against her that became a self-fulfilling prophecy."

Wishes has intense anger and trauma about DoneGone's treatment of her and their business partner prior to her cheating. DoneGone had been a wonderful husband during their entire marriage, and she had been a perfect wife (according to the two of them).

DG seemed to snap over Wishes texting with the business partner/friend. Wishes didn't help the matter by not giving DG the phone so he could read the texts and immediately see that she wasn't having an affair. Why didn't she give him the phone? Only Wishes knows that. It drove DG crazy.

Could DG have had a sort of midlife crisis/tantrum over Wishes' texting the friend, and then Wishes followed that by having her own type of rebellion via the actual affair with LoserVideoGameGuy?

Boundaries...that would have prevented the whole thing. A beautiful marriage laid to waste due to one person's poor boundaries and the other person's poor reaction. 

Do married people even need "friends" of the opposite sex? IDK. I don't have any, never have. After reading here on TAM, I'm inclined to think that it is far safer for a marriage if both people only have close friendships with people of one's own sex.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> He does believe that somehow he drove her to cheat on him: " I was blind with anger [over the friend who was not an AP] and I had built a case against her that became a self-fulfilling prophecy."
> 
> Wishes has intense anger and trauma about DoneGone's treatment of her and their business partner prior to her cheating. DoneGone had been a wonderful husband during their entire marriage, and she had been a perfect wife (according to the two of them).
> 
> DG seemed to snap over Wishes texting with the business partner/friend. Wishes didn't help the matter by not giving DG the phone so he could read the texts and immediately see that she wasn't having an affair. Why didn't she give him the phone? Only Wishes knows that. It drove DG crazy.
> 
> Could DG have had a sort of midlife crisis/tantrum over Wishes' texting the friend, and then Wishes followed that by having her own type of rebellion via the actual affair with LoserVideoGameGuy?
> 
> Boundaries...that would have prevented the whole thing. A beautiful marriage laid to waste due to one person's poor boundaries and the other person's poor reaction.
> 
> Do married people even need "friends" of the opposite sex? IDK. I don't have any, never have. After reading here on TAM, I'm inclined to think that it is far safer for a marriage if both people only have close friendships with people of one's own sex.


And could have triggered that childhood trauma setting off a self destructive bent.... Thats my best guess for now.


----------



## Adelais

Blossom Leigh said:


> And could have triggered that childhood trauma setting off a self destructive bent.... Thats my best guess for now.


And it seems that they are both owning their part, and forgiving one another.

I hope they do work it out and are able to reclaim the love they shared, now that their innocence is lost.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> And it seems that they are both owning their part, and forgiving one another.
> 
> I hope they do work it out and are able to reclaim the love they shared, now that their innocence is lost.


They are in a very tricky and complicated time in recovery whether they survive or not, without question. I feel for all of them.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

So I stepped away a bit after lobbing a few hand grenades and the usual suspects all tripped over each other to pile on them. 

A few of you were more reasoned as I expected, but I was disappointed in some TAMsters that I respect who still are triggered by this thread and aren't giving their usual objective feedback.

I did that because I was tired of the Wishes bashing - and since I'm quite resilient - I didn't mind the bashing I knew I would take.

I'm just saying have a bit of compassion for this woman and help her heal.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

And yes I am high IQ - I joined Mensa just to piss off a d0ucgbag at work who was a complete jacka55 who acted superior all the time. Those who've read my posts know I don't lord this over people. But I mention it because high IQ people often see differences among things others miss and see similarities others miss. It's the nature of our mental processes. And I was exasperated that you guys couldn't see what was so obvious to me - this thread is for Wishes to help her heal - not litigate her disastrous A which ruined her family.

And yes I alter my grammar in an attempt to not sound like a complete d0uchbag ALL the time. I'm a big enough a55 in real life


----------



## Evinrude58

It appears her husband is definitely willing to reconcile.
He speaks so highly of her before the affair. She must not be the monster that she showed herself to be in those emails, for that to be true. It's hard to understand some of the things she said. 
Apparently she's going to get her chance to reconcile, whether it's out of manipulation (she is adept at that) or the fact that she was such a good wife for so many years.

Either way, I'll be happy for the both of them if she stays faithful and doesn't bring anymore destruction on him or anyone else. Her ap was such a lowlife. I can't really see how a good woman could stoop to that level of person. 

Good luck to all involved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Evinrude58 said:


> It appears her husband is definitely willing to reconcile.
> He speaks so highly of her before the affair. She must not be the monster that she showed herself to be in those emails, for that to be true. It's hard to understand some of the things she said.
> Apparently she's going to get her chance to reconcile, whether it's out of manipulation (she is adept at that) or the fact that she was such a good wife for so many years.
> 
> Either way, I'll be happy for the both of them if she stays faithful and doesn't bring anymore destruction on him or anyone else. Her ap was such a lowlife. I can't really see how a good woman could stoop to that level of person.
> 
> Good luck to all involved.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


IDK - didn't read that thread - but it doesn't surprise me that someone with childhood trauma would A down - childhood trauma is a real f'd up thing


----------



## Evinrude58

If you do read it, he's getting good advice, but wishes husband wants her back badly. 
I just wonder if it's possible to get back what he had with her, and if not, he's better off walking.
If it is possible, I'm happy for 'em.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## oneMOreguy

TheTruthHurts said:


> And yes I am high IQ - I joined Mensa just to piss off a d0ucgbag at work who was a complete jacka55 who acted superior all the time. Those who've read my posts know I don't lord this over people. But I mention it because high IQ people often see differences among things others miss and see similarities others miss. It's the nature of our mental processes. And I was exasperated that you guys couldn't see what was so obvious to me - this thread is for Wishes to help her heal - not litigate her disastrous A which ruined her family.
> 
> And yes I alter my grammar in an attempt to not sound like a complete d0uchbag ALL the time. I'm a big enough a55 in real life


Meh.......I am also mensa. ....to me it just means I am a darn good test taker........math and verbal skills. Many other types of intelligence are just as important but don't show up on traditional iq tests.

But it was good of you to try to give wishes a break.......there is much going on behind the scenes with these two. But they both seem to be bright and moving forward with a decent dose of self awareness and a mutual caring for each other. I hope they give it a shot again, if for no other reason than to know they tried a final time and not second guess themselves.


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> And yes I am high IQ - I joined Mensa just to piss off a d0ucgbag at work who was a complete jacka55 who acted superior all the time. Those who've read my posts know I don't lord this over people. But I mention it because high IQ people often see differences among things others miss and see similarities others miss. It's the nature of our mental processes. And I was exasperated that you guys couldn't see what was so obvious to me - this thread is for Wishes to help her heal - not litigate her disastrous A which ruined her family.
> 
> And yes I alter my grammar in an attempt to not sound like a complete d0uchbag ALL the time. I'm a big enough a55 in real life


Yeah,I sort of sensed that.


----------



## jsmart

I'm saddened by Done Gone's recent changes. It is way to soon to talk about R especially with Wishes recent evolution from seeming to be a remorseful broken xWW to more and more playing the victim card. 

The ground work is already being set to make some prior fights justification in labeling DG as controlling. Almost every WW's go to excuse. Sadly DG is, like so many BHs, seems to be willing to go along with the rewritten history, so he can justify taking Wishes back. 

Wishes had an obviously very sexual PA for several months. DG needs to have a similar relationship. Knowing how wanton WWs get for their POS, a couple of hot dates is no way near enough to even things out. He's approaching Wishes in too needy a fashion which is why she can now lay back, knowing that DG's love for her will get him doing the heavy lifting that she should be doing.


----------



## Maxo

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> He does believe that somehow he drove her to cheat on him: " I was blind with anger [over the friend who was not an AP] and I had built a case against her that became a self-fulfilling prophecy."
> 
> Wishes has intense anger and trauma about DoneGone's treatment of her and their business partner prior to her cheating. DoneGone had been a wonderful husband during their entire marriage, and she had been a perfect wife (according to the two of them).
> 
> DG seemed to snap over Wishes texting with the business partner/friend. Wishes didn't help the matter by not giving DG the phone so he could read the texts and immediately see that she wasn't having an affair. Why didn't she give him the phone? Only Wishes knows that. It drove DG crazy.
> 
> Could DG have had a sort of midlife crisis/tantrum over Wishes' texting the friend, and then Wishes followed that by having her own type of rebellion via the actual affair with LoserVideoGameGuy?
> 
> Boundaries...that would have prevented the whole thing. A beautiful marriage laid to waste due to one person's poor boundaries and the other person's poor reaction.
> 
> Do married people even need "friends" of the opposite sex? IDK. I don't have any, never have. After reading here on TAM, I'm inclined to think that it is far safer for a marriage if both people only have close friendships with people of one's own sex.


That is one helluva reaction. I think it could have triggered a double reverse Oedipus-coversion reaction with schizoid overtones. But, one never knows.


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> And yes I am high IQ - I joined Mensa just to piss off a d0ucgbag at work who was a complete jacka55 who acted superior all the time. Those who've read my posts know I don't lord this over people. But I mention it because high IQ people often see differences among things others miss and see similarities others miss. It's the nature of our mental processes. And I was exasperated that you guys couldn't see what was so obvious to me - this thread is for Wishes to help her heal - not litigate her disastrous A which ruined her family.
> 
> And yes I alter my grammar in an attempt to not sound like a complete d0uchbag ALL the time. I'm a big enough a55 in real life


Did I mention I was recently accepted into double super secret MENSA? I HAVE THE DECODER RING.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Maxo said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yes I am high IQ - I joined Mensa just to piss off a d0ucgbag at work who was a complete jacka55 who acted superior all the time. Those who've read my posts know I don't lord this over people. But I mention it because high IQ people often see differences among things others miss and see similarities others miss. It's the nature of our mental processes. And I was exasperated that you guys couldn't see what was so obvious to me - this thread is for Wishes to help her heal - not litigate her disastrous A which ruined her family.
> 
> And yes I alter my grammar in an attempt to not sound like a complete d0uchbag ALL the time. I'm a big enough a55 in real life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention I was recently accepted into double super secret MENSA? I HAVE THE DECODER RING.
Click to expand...

Ha ha yes I've given a few of those out. Ever see Dinner for Schmucks?


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ha ha yes I've given a few of those out. Ever see Dinner for Schmucks?


Loved it. I was consulted re the script.


----------



## oneMOreguy

Maxo said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yes I am high IQ - I joined Mensa just to piss off a d0ucgbag at work who was a complete jacka55 who acted superior all the time. Those who've read my posts know I don't lord this over people. But I mention it because high IQ people often see differences among things others miss and see similarities others miss. It's the nature of our mental processes. And I was exasperated that you guys couldn't see what was so obvious to me - this thread is for Wishes to help her heal - not litigate her disastrous A which ruined her family.
> 
> And yes I alter my grammar in an attempt to not sound like a complete d0uchbag ALL the time. I'm a big enough a55 in real life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I mention I was recently accepted into double super secret MENSA? I HAVE THE DECODER RING.
Click to expand...


Drat......you must have been the person who got the last one on ebay.......


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Do you two need a pair of rulers next


----------



## Maxo

Blossom Leigh said:


> Do you two need a pair of rulers next



Yardsticks,maybe.


----------



## bandit.45

A troll playing tennis with his/herself. Wonder how long s/he can keep the volley up before this whole fiction collapses in on itself.


----------



## manfromlamancha

bandit.45 said:


> A troll playing tennis with his/herself. Wonder how long s/he can keep the volley up before this whole fiction collapses in on itself.


Wondered about that. What a tennis court! Across two forums/sites.


----------



## Jponce06

I've been following DGs thread from the start and followed this from the start as a fly on the wall. My spidy senses are tingling. Even if it's not a troll the whole none disclosure and spoon feeding information from wishes on here then DGs defense of her. By saying he had made mistakes and had hurt her a lot prior to her A..hmm. Seems as though she didn't give information to protect him to make R easier. Maybe she did know him better than he knew himself? and maybe she knew about his SI post before she posted here and it was all calculated. Not a lot of disclosure or a lot of gaps in info borderline flirting and bible quoting. At times I thought she was insane but without any real timeline or her side it's all open to interpretation.


----------



## azteca1986

Wishes said:


> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally.


This ^ is hard to reconcile with this:

DG:


> I effectively forced her into a situation where she was deliberately, systematically, and wantonly the victim of physical, emotional and mental torture.


----------



## Jponce06

azteca1986 said:


> Wishes said:
> 
> 
> 
> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally.
> 
> 
> 
> This ^ is hard to reconcile with this:
> 
> DG:
> 
> 
> 
> I effectively forced her into a situation where she was deliberately, systematically, and wantonly the victim of physical, emotional and mental torture.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The none conspiracy theorists in me assumes she was getting too emotionally attached to her mentor. DG got upset made her life living hell fired him she got back at him by having an affair with an old friend of her brother. DG still loves her enough to want her back. No amount of verbal abuse condones the footsie incident coupled with the emails. Divorced by this point would of been easier especially calling him dumbo and "threesome comments". This is all to much for me to wrap my head around.

This reminds me a lot of the couples at clubs hot beautiful woman and some handsome tall guy who Monday through Friday are the envy of everyone but can be found arguing outside the clubs shouting and yelling. Yet they can't seem to stay away from each other.


----------



## sparrow555




----------



## eric1

I will say this, it may have been DoneGone's insecurities that made him go after the mentor but in all of my years of participating in these sites...a spouse's spidey sense is very rarely wrong.

The guy 'being a friend to the marriage' is one of the age old tricks of vultures. It establishes trust and rapport.

There comes a point where male/female friendships need to be very careful, and if DG's spidey sense was going on, and seeing she actually did go and have an affair, then DoneGone should strongly consider if he is falling on a sword as a coping/ rug sweeping mechanism.

My concern here, as with all forms of rug sweeping, is that eventually the chickens come home to roost. With infidelity you need to first salt the earth, you need to then fix the soil and give it some time to rebuild naturally and only then is it time to plant a few test crops. Even if he isn't rug sweeping it is the only pragmatic course to take


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Maxo said:


> Yardsticks,maybe.


LOL!!


----------



## manfromlamancha

I invented the words decoder and ring!


----------



## wmn1

jsmart said:


> I'm saddened by Done Gone's recent changes. It is way to soon to talk about R especially with Wishes recent evolution from seeming to be a remorseful broken xWW to more and more playing the victim card.
> 
> The ground work is already being set to make some prior fights justification in labeling DG as controlling. Almost every WW's go to excuse. Sadly DG is, like so many BHs, seems to be willing to go along with the rewritten history, so he can justify taking Wishes back.
> 
> Wishes had an obviously very sexual PA for several months. DG needs to have a similar relationship. Knowing how wanton WWs get for their POS, a couple of hot dates is no way near enough to even things out. He's approaching Wishes in too needy a fashion which is why she can now lay back, knowing that DG's love for her will get him doing the heavy lifting that she should be doing.



agreed.


----------



## TX-SC

jsmart said:


> I'm saddened by Done Gone's recent changes. It is way to soon to talk about R especially with Wishes recent evolution from seeming to be a remorseful broken xWW to more and more playing the victim card.
> 
> The ground work is already being set to make some prior fights justification in labeling DG as controlling. Almost every WW's go to excuse. Sadly DG is, like so many BHs, seems to be willing to go along with the rewritten history, so he can justify taking Wishes back.
> 
> Wishes had an obviously very sexual PA for several months. DG needs to have a similar relationship. Knowing how wanton WWs get for their POS, a couple of hot dates is no way near enough to even things out. He's approaching Wishes in too needy a fashion which is why she can now lay back, knowing that DG's love for her will get him doing the heavy lifting that she should be doing.


Very well said. DG is being manipulated into a possible R. If everything he posted is correct, then the OM was actually correct: DG is a Beta personality. He is getting whipped back into following his wife's whims. A spouse can't complain about how controlling her husband was after she had an affair. Her husband was concerned about a possible EA and put his foot down. What did she do in retaliation, have an EA and a PA! She is even manipulating some on this board into buying her junk, even some with a high IQ and a superiority complex apparently.


----------



## wmn1

TX-SC said:


> Very well said. DG is being manipulated into a possible R. If everything he posted is correct, then the OM was actually correct: DG is a Beta personality. He is getting whipped back into following his wife's whims. A spouse can't complain about how controlling her husband was after she had an affair. Her husband was concerned about a possible EA and put his foot down. What did she do in retaliation, have an EA and a PA! She is even manipulating some on this board into buying her junk, even some with a high IQ and a superiority complex apparently.


I agree. His recent posts sound very beta


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## farsidejunky

manfromlamancha said:


> I invented the words decoder and ring!


And I can't spell dekodur or wreeng.

I'm screwed.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## manfromlamancha

farsidejunky said:


> And I can't spell dekodur or wreeng.
> 
> I'm screwed.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


No, I think you are deceiving us all - those are the actual spellings of those words in the language of the ancient ones.


----------



## farsidejunky

manfromlamancha said:


> No, I think you are deceiving us all - those are the actual spellings of those words in the language of the ancient ones.


You're onto me.

And my plan would have worked if it weren't for you meddling kids...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts

For those of you astounded by thoughts of R - and I have seen no evidence of that because I don't read crap on other sites and cross post and gossip about it - then I suggest you reread Lonely Husband's thread.

He bolted after discovering his WW's affair. But after consideration, he is deep in R. He took no responsibility for her A - and I'm sure it was as lurid as any other - but he did take responsibility for his own sh*t in the marriage. He accepted that he had not created a safe environment in his marriage to reduce the likelihood of infidelity. He was distant and probably cold. Not to be mean or even for any reason related to his W. But he was honest with himself and both he and WW are aggressively working on R and he is deep in IC and dealing with PTSD.

25 years is an entire adult lifetime. As devastating as betrayal must be, I get how one can decide there is enough good in the WS and enough love in the marriage to attempt forgiveness and attempt R.

Sure I'd love to say "f that - if my W scr3w3d some other guy I'd be gone in a heartbeat!" And I probably would be. But I've been fortunate to read of some folks on TAM with their heads screwed on straight, who get or remain involved in their faith, and take the difficult step of attempting recovery and reconciliation. So now I wonder if I wouldn't also take a step back, think about it, and try R too. Who knows.

But I wouldn't bash Wishes EXH for making that decision for himself, his kids, and his EXWW.


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## azteca1986

TheTruthHurts said:


> So I stepped away a bit after lobbing a few hand grenades and the usual suspects all tripped over each other to pile on them.


Apart from your "high IQ", what do you believe you're bringing to this thread?


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## manfromlamancha

farsidejunky said:


> You're onto me.
> 
> And my plan would have worked if it weren't for you meddling kids...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Ah I see you are on to me as well - for where I originate from we age in reverse - so yes I am indeed a kid!


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## manfromlamancha

I also believe that you in the land "that is across the pond" are familiar with one who spells like you do - Donald Trump!


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## NewPhoenix5

azteca1986 said:


> Originally Posted by Wishes
> 
> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally.
> 
> This ^ is hard to reconcile with this:
> 
> DG Quote:
> 
> I effectively forced her into a situation where she was deliberately, systematically, and wantonly the victim of physical, emotional and mental torture.


Wishes observed and watched the temperament of TAM before she dipped her toe in. She knew how her "broken" excuse / reason would fall flat here, so she held her tongue.

I do believe she told the truth when she said she was horribly sorry and remorseful and that she got what she deserved. This was not her manipulating.

But that wasn't the whole story...

She held it back, even in the face of "Open up Wishes!" and our calls to "Tell us your side!". She didn't want to throw DoneGone under the bus and knew a can of whup ass would be opened up, and it did.

It's not an excuse. But it is an important part of her "how". DoneGone certainly didn't bring her actions down upon himself. No one deserves to be betrayed by adultery, not even those who commit adultery. It is beyond horrible...

Wishes needs to have her personal "how" addressed by DoneGone. He is in no shape to do so right now. If she presses it, they are doomed. Neither want this, so she better be very careful about discussing it. But she can't just let it be. That would be a insincere at best and may doom the R if she tired it. She would be living a lie.

My WW has huge, huge issues with what I put her through pre affair and she has huge issues about what life has dealt her pre-affair. It broke her and she failed in a spectacular way. So too with Wishes. We are spectators to this slow motion train wreck and cannot look away--1000 posts on SI and nearly 900 here.

Like becoming madhatters, these two have the near impossible task of together digging through the insanity and pain and rebuilding. They must set aside their individual suffering to fully understand, acknowledge, and accept the pain they have caused. I'm doing it with my WW and keep hoping I will find the way through this maze of pain and betrayal. 

My recommendation is to take turns addressing the wrongs of the other. DO NOT MIX THE TWO. One did not cause the other's wrongs. They need to identify and realize the power struggle going on and set it aside. Wishes must not use her brokenness as a reason she committed adultery. It is too much for DoneGone to bear. At the same time, regardless of what Wishes did to DoneGone, he must acknowledge his part in breaking her and being abusive and cruel, whatever that may be. 

This is where I find myself. This is the path forward for me and my wife. I do admit hurting her and wearing her out, contributing to her breaking. I was selfish and inattentive of her needs and pain. I can and must accept that. It is imperative to her healing that I feel and convey and apologize for it. What I cannot and will not ever accept is that I caused her, in any way, to "have an affair". That is all on her.

When she brings up my cruelty and lack of compassion, I am not allowed to bring up the adultery. When I bring up the Adultery, she is not allowed to bring up my cruelty and lack of compassion. We have found that doing so is disastrous. Those issues are evil enough to deal with on their own.

So they each have their work ahead of them. They are 1% back together on their first coffee. They still have so much pain and suffering ahead of them. 

My prayers are for you two, you're going to need it.


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## wmn1

Both Wishes and DoneGone can heal and move forward, together or not. It seems like he's reflecting back as is she. I know Wishes has shown some remorse and some toughness here but some defiance too. Right as most tell her that it's done, DG seems to be opening up to having her back. The way he's doing it is concerning me as there seems to be a lot of self blame on his part and he's probably read this thread too much that now he's thinking about what he once had. 

If DG wants her to come back, part of me says "who am I to oppose", on the other hand, it's the whys behind his decision that has me concerned, as well as the fact that I couldn't do it. Wishes now is shocked about the swiftness of the divorce and consequences she has faced. Life has thrown her off her game. Also, if he is truly interested in taking her back, why is he seeking to date around and delay what his goal is ? That hurts him and her though I get the need to him to have 'his time' as well but that won't help matters down the road. 

My biggest question to Wishes would be what she is willing to do to help him heal from what happened in 2014-15 ? 

My question for him is if it is his self esteem issue or depression that is driving his desire to possibly get back together or is it his real unabated feelings ?

I don't know. Is there manipulation here ? Possibly. Is he a beta male ? possibly. Are the kids influencing this ? perhaps. Did DG do everything right ? Noone does but noone deserves an affair either.

For me it would be a no-go on reconciliation. DG may be willing to handle it differently.

I am not going to continue and feed the dire on this thread. I do think most here have been respectful and will keep the thread going. I am just going to drift off and be a bystander and see how it plays out from here


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## Jponce06

Only criticism are the few calling him beta..plenty of alpha personalities males get cheated on. Forgiving and wanting a wife of 25 years back doesn't make anyone beta or weak.


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## eric1

TheTruthHurts said:


> For those of you astounded by thoughts of R - and I have seen no evidence of that because I don't read crap on other sites and cross post and gossip about it - then I suggest you reread Lonely Husband's thread.
> 
> He bolted after discovering his WW's affair. But after consideration, he is deep in R. He took no responsibility for her A - and I'm sure it was as lurid as any other - but he did take responsibility for his own sh*t in the marriage. He accepted that he had not created a safe environment in his marriage to reduce the likelihood of infidelity. He was distant and probably cold. Not to be mean or even for any reason related to his W. But he was honest with himself and both he and WW are aggressively working on R and he is deep in IC and dealing with PTSD.
> 
> *25 years is an entire adult lifetime. As devastating as betrayal must be, I get how one can decide there is enough good in the WS and enough love in the marriage to attempt forgiveness and attempt R.*
> 
> Sure I'd love to say "f that - if my W scr3w3d some other guy I'd be gone in a heartbeat!" And I probably would be. But I've been fortunate to read of some folks on TAM with their heads screwed on straight, who get or remain involved in their faith, and take the difficult step of attempting recovery and reconciliation. So now I wonder if I wouldn't also take a step back, think about it, and try R too. Who knows.
> 
> But I wouldn't bash Wishes EXH for making that decision for himself, his kids, and his EXWW.


I really want to agree with you but can't. Insofar as a measurement the only purpose I can see for measuring a marriage by time is that during that time trust and love have had that timeframe to build up. Infidelity more or less cancels that out (if not more). 

Personally if my spouse of 25 years cheated on me I'd have a harder time reconciling it than a spouse of 5 years. After 25 years just finding out that I did not really know the person who make re-establishing trust a pretty hard nut to crack.

(my opinion only - I can certainly see why this would not apply to someone else)


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## Adelais

wmn1 said:


> My question for him is if it is his self esteem issue or depression that is driving his desire to possibly get back together or is it his real unabated feelings ?


Even in his worst moments, DoneGone would always say he hated her, but he loved her. He wanted to be away from her, but he couldn't imagine life without her. They were truly one before Wishes began distancing herself (first texting fiasco.) Even after she hurt him, he didn't stop loving her, and vise versa. They need to work out all the pain, own their part and get married again. They have learned their lesson, and can have an amazing marriage again.

Then they can come here and share how they did it, their low spots and successes, with us!


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## wmn1

Jponce87 said:


> Only criticism are the few calling him beta..plenty of alpha personalities males get cheated on. Forgiving and wanting a wife of 25 years back doesn't make anyone beta or weak.


let me break my silence for a second because I have to respond to this.

If you would review his entire thread on SI, which I was actively involved in BTW, there were many 'beta' moments from DG and a ton of pressure for him to act. While I agree that many Alpha personalities get cheated on too, the complete indecisiveness and the recent self mutilation that DG has done to himself over there is certainly not a sign of strength and in fact IMO does make him weak, at least in regards to this scenario. 

Forgiving and wanting a wife of 25 years back is not the weakness, His self blaming and his recent accusing himself of emotional, physical and mental torture of her doesn't sound to me as someone who is soundly strong right now.


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## sapientia

TheTruthHurts said:


> And yes I am high IQ - I joined Mensa just to piss off a d0ucgbag at work who was a complete jacka55 who acted superior all the time. Those who've read my posts know I don't lord this over people. But I mention it because high IQ people often see differences among things others miss and see similarities others miss. It's the nature of our mental processes. And I was exasperated that you guys couldn't see what was so obvious to me - this thread is for Wishes to help her heal - not litigate her disastrous A which ruined her family.
> 
> And yes I alter my grammar in an attempt to not sound like a complete d0uchbag ALL the time. I'm a big enough a55 in real life


There are lots of people who are high IQ who don't bother with those kinds of societies. Prometheus is another. 1/50 people who apply are eligible for mensa so its not exactly rare. I find people who flaunt it are generally insecure, which has nothing to do with IQ. Sidis died a virgin at 46.


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## wmn1

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Even in his worst moments, DoneGone would always say he hated her, but he loved her. He wanted to be away from her, but he couldn't imagine life without her. They were truly one before Wishes began distancing herself (first texting fiasco.) Even after she hurt him, he didn't stop loving her, and vise versa. They need to work out all the pain, own their part and get married again. They have learned their lesson, and can have an amazing marriage again.
> 
> Then they can come here and share how they did it, their low spots and successes, with us!



he did always say he loved her but then so does every betrayed spouse on these boards. 

Regarding getting married again, if that was the case, then why did he rush to divorce ? Are we saying he jumped too quickly at divorce ? or are we saying that it was good to end the marriage , then to remarry her in a new marriage (an argument I always hear especially on SI) ? But if that's the case, then if it is truly a new relationship, why go out with someone who has proven themselves to be a cheater ? That argument has never held water for me.

In the end, I do think there is a way for them to both move forward but as Eric eluded to, the working out of all that pain will be an enormous task that will take a long time. Is that worth it to them ? To her it is because she deep down inside she knows she screwed up and there were severe consequences and she wants redemption. With him, he doesn't really know what he wants let alone bounding himself to the commitment of the trust and long term effort to rebuilding. His heart and his mind are not meshing right now. the talk of remarriage is way too premature. they struggle just getting together for coffee right now


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## Evinrude58

HE went ballistic on the employee texting his wife who was just a friend. Perhaps a lurker, but seemed to be an honest friend. He even fired the dude. I don't think he's some weenie beta male, if there is such a thing. He's a guy that had his whole life crushed in an instant. He was unprepared and it makes a person do strange things--- it did me. My ex-wife thinks I'm overly "alpha". I would agree-- with everyone but her. I suspect it's that way with DG.
Now that I'm on the down slope, I don't think even if the ex wanted to reconcile, I'd ever consider it. She was a low-class, low-character, shiftless snake in the grass. I always knew she was a liar. I don't think she'll ever change and I'd never be foolish enough to trust her completely, nor think she actually loved me before or after.
I'd think about her cheating ways the rest of my life. I'm glad she's gone and will be happier when my kids are grown and I don't have to deal with her. She's never showed one smidgen of remorse whatsoever.

I think Wishes may be remorseful. If so, I do think they can remarry. But,in my opinion, this will be a black cloud that will hang over this man the rest of his life.


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## Adelais

wmn1 said:


> Regarding getting married again, if that was the case, then why did he rush to divorce ? Are we saying he jumped too quickly at divorce?


He needed to divorce her for her actions, without thinking about remarriage. Divorce isn't a game.



wmn1 said:


> In the end, I do think there is a way for them to both move forward but as Eric eluded to, the working out of all that pain will be an enormous task that will take a long time. Is that worth it to them?


It will most certainly be a long and arduous task, if they are going to deal with everything and build a new, strong foundation.



wmn1 said:


> the talk of remarriage is way too premature. they struggle just getting together for coffee right now


You are right. I'm just a romantic. They are both suffering, and love each other. I hope they have learned their lessons.


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## manfromlamancha

At this point, I do not believe for one minute that they truly "love each other". DoneGone is remembering the good ole days, and Wishes is trying to make her wishes come true!


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## SofaKingWeToddId

This thread is almost 900 posts deep and we still don't know Wishes side of the story.


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## ConanHub

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> This thread is almost 900 posts deep and we still don't know Wishes side of the story.


Would be nice. I'm not sure she even knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> This thread is almost 900 posts deep and we still don't know Wishes side of the story.


You never will

It didn't fit her agenda


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## OneTimeTooMany

Wishes,
Let me raise a white flag before saying anything, just so you would know I mean to help and not troll or hurt you. You must understand TAM is like a great Sea to every wayward that comes here, it is a journey they take towards the shores of true remorse and self improvement and ultimately renewed hope that you desperately
crave. Your reaction to a lot of the replies you got here is somewhat warranted but definetly expected, but you must know wishes that among the tides of hurt you recieve, there are small waves and even calm waters with the sole purpose of helping you, so yes wishes my advise is that you ride this sea of TAM, and it is a changing sea with strong stormy tides and then light comfy waves that please and lift you slightly with comfort. Your sole mission is to remain afloat wishes, your boat that carries you is your self, your the captain and like a sailor who attends to his and works on his boat all the time in the midst of his journey to carry him to the shore, so should you wishes. When ever your faced with a terrible strong tide, lets say a hurtfull post from a troll or simply a projection from a BS, take it, learn from it what you want and maneuver from it sailing towards calmer waves, I say waves and not calm waters wishes because you need the 2x4s sometimes but even then you will sometimes find yourself within calm peacefull waters with a light breeze and shining Sun and you'll feel proud of what you endured and deserved and reinvigorated to continue the journey knowing more will come.
Don't let those tides wash upon and fully consume you or you'll sink, and you have been sinking wishes by your recent posts, your defense, which don't get me wrong is warranted, is detracting from your journey and is taking you back where you started or nowhere at all. You must reroute to addressing your issues, speaking to all of us of what you have achieved in becomming better and what you plan to further do and how we can support and encourage you.
To start you must be honest to the fullest you must start by telling us your side because alot of things have become somewhat conflicted and is confusing us, alot of the posters here want nothing but to help, they seek no gain from your tragedy, they're willing to go out of thier ways, give their time to help.
Honesty wishes is important, so let us start this journey again.
Here is a little something that might get you to recommunicate, I've noticed some conflicting facts that you need to iron through. I've read all your posts and I'm focusing on the parts where you mention your husband (or now x-husband):



> ​
> I cannot say I was unhappy because, before the affair, I was happy nearly all the time. I can’t say that it “just happened.” It didn’t. I allowed it to happen/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> My husband was so good to me, loved and pampered me to such extremes, I cannot believe I did this to him. We were together over 25 years and he was the most loving and caring person I have ever met and the first person to love me unconditionally. I love him with all my heart and always will but I still cheated on him./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> I’ve lost a husband who literally worshipped the ground I walked on/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> I had a perfect, wonderful and blessed life that for some reason I felt I had to completely trash. My husband was perfect in every way imaginable. He was faithful true and kind to the fullest extent. /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> I was not looking for love or sex, my husband gave me an abundancy of both.../QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> My now X-husband is a beautiful person, a wonderful man and a great father and yet, I cheated on him anyway./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> This is a problem. My marriage was almost perfect. My husband? Well, I would have to think hard and long to come up with a flaw. He is the product of very good parenting, a very gently nature and forgiving spirit. I am the one who brought baggage into the relationship and he never really seemed to notice./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> You are so "right on" it is almost surreal. You said something at the very beginning of my post that affected me in the same way. My husband was always so much better than me and he had this way of making me think he thought I was better than him/QUOTE]
> 
> _*So wishes after all these, you have recently started quoting these that do not agree to some extent to the above and somewhat show a change that is leaning on blame-shifting (although you are taking responsibility but still)*:_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> There are two sides to every story, and then there’s the truth; however, nothing I can say is going to be a mitigating factor that will excuse or justify my betrayal of my husband. Regardless my circumstances, there is no argument that I could give that should result in reduced charges or a lesser sentence. But, even as I admit I deserve what I got, still, there are silent “other thoughts” hanging on the end of that sentence, invisible, but still there/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> In no way does that detract from, discount, dilute, or decrease my responsibility for my behavior, however, most people's opinion of me on this forum have been shaped by what they have read on SI, and possibly, your own. But there are two sides to every story./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> I had been seeing a therapist 6 months before any of the texting problems. I had never been able to get ex-husband to go to therapy with me, even though, he was the reason I was there.
> I will not go deeper into that because it will be interpreted as rug sweeping. I take responsibility for what I did./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> I needed BH to understand what he had done to me. I knew the marriage was over, emails or no emails. The marriage was over. He wanted the emails, I wanted him to speak with my therapist. So, I offered him the emails if he would go to therapy with me. I was not trying to stonewall. I knew the marriage was over. I only wanted him to understand what he had done to me./QUOTE]
> 
> You see wishes, the change in description of your marriage and husband. The posters want to help, but they can't fully do that if you don't tell your side honestly and completely from the beggining.
> I hate to bring things from the other thread, but now even your husband is blaming himself and saying how bad he has been towards you ( which is also a change from what he wrote in his posts about the marriage), i will not quote him because this is not his thread and it is not about him. This is about you. It does not make sense. The only logical explanation is that one of you or both of you is not being honest about the marriage. Trying to regain hope (I will not mention reconcilitaion just yet) this way is not the correct course for healing, for both of you. Even though any reason does not justify cheating, its vital to know these reasons and attempt to fix them, for you and not your marriage.
> Tell us your side from the start, the cheating, betrayal is done and done, you are divorced and remorseful, you've paid the price, now the healing part for you (and him) starts with honesty and stating the facts completely and clearly.
> I hope you all the best wishes, if you ever come back here or don't, remember this Sea is never going anywhere, whenever you want to sail again, bring your boat (true self), beleive me the other shore is worth it!
> P.S english is my 2nd language so sorry about the lack of paragraphs, i always had issues with that to the continous dismay of my english teacher a long time ago, i guess i never learned:laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
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> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## straightshooter

Well thought out ONE TIME TOO MANY.

on't know if she will be back though. I followed the DG thread a while on SI but let it go when the crap all started about her refusing the passwords to the computers and him refusing to just take them to an expert and get into them himself since he had them on his possession.
So i am not an expert on any of it .

All I know is resentment can be a factor in cheating, but sorry, giving up one guiy friend is not excuse to do what she did to the extent she did it. there has to be more.

who knows??? Only they do


----------



## Satya

OneTimeTooMany said:


> P.S english is my 2nd language so sorry about the lack of paragraphs, i always had issues with that to the continous dismay of my english teacher a long time ago, i guess i never learned:laugh:


I wouldn't fret. You articulated yourself perfectly in my opinion.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

straightshooter said:


> Well thought out ONE TIME TOO MANY.
> 
> on't know if she will be back though. I followed the DG thread a while on SI but let it go when the crap all started about her refusing the passwords to the computers and him refusing to just take them to an expert and get into them himself since he had them on his possession.
> So i am not an expert on any of it .
> 
> All I know is resentment can be a factor in cheating, but sorry, giving up one guiy friend is not excuse to do what she did to the extent she did it.* there has to be more.
> *
> who knows??? Only they do


This is a safe assumption.

If she wants to share she will.


----------



## wmn1

Evinrude58 said:


> HE went ballistic on the employee texting his wife who was just a friend. Perhaps a lurker, but seemed to be an honest friend. He even fired the dude. I don't think he's some weenie beta male, if there is such a thing. He's a guy that had his whole life crushed in an instant. He was unprepared and it makes a person do strange things--- it did me. My ex-wife thinks I'm overly "alpha". I would agree-- with everyone but her. I suspect it's that way with DG.
> Now that I'm on the down slope, I don't think even if the ex wanted to reconcile, I'd ever consider it. She was a low-class, low-character, shiftless snake in the grass. I always knew she was a liar. I don't think she'll ever change and I'd never be foolish enough to trust her completely, nor think she actually loved me before or after.
> I'd think about her cheating ways the rest of my life. I'm glad she's gone and will be happier when my kids are grown and I don't have to deal with her. She's never showed one smidgen of remorse whatsoever.
> 
> I think Wishes may be remorseful. If so, I do think they can remarry. But,in my opinion, this will be a black cloud that will hang over this man the rest of his life.


I agree largely in part but diagree in part regarding DG. Look I don't like the terms alpha and beta anyway.

One of the biggest things I see on this board and in real life is that guys can be 'Alpha' outside of their relationship and 'Beta' inside of it. I know many tough guys who cower to their wives but will be the first one to try and intimidate others. hell, I work with a bunch of them.

DG, in his entire thread, took a bunch of crap from his wife and daughters and had to be implored much of the time to be decisive and fight back. He had no problem kicking the OM's ass when attacked but when dealing with Wishes, he had his 'Beta" moments. Then later on after he found his spunk and divorced her, he turned to self blame which is another beta move.

Noone ever said this infidelity crap is easy and can't bring even the strongest people to their knees. However, his recent fall to self blame is not a sign of strength.


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## wmn1

manfromlamancha said:


> At this point, I do not believe for one minute that they truly "love each other". DoneGone is remembering the good ole days, and Wishes is trying to make her wishes come true!


I agree with this completely


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## sparrow555

People should stop putting any more time or effort into this thread. You all served your purpose, you ignorant plebs.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

We cannot always know why information is shared or withheld. It would be best not to assume the intent behind sharing or not sharing.


----------



## Satya

Well, I avoided posting here because I felt inadequate to dispense advice on the matter of chance of getting back together after infidelity. 

One should really read both stories to get somewhat of a complete picture. 

Wishes, I feel quite sad for you and your ex H, for different reasons. I'm sorry if you felt insulted here, but it takes quite a thick skin to come here. I am not active on the other forum, because I prefer the way advice is dispensed here.

I think the thing that saddens me the most is that neither of you seem capable of living without the other. Your ex H was quite adamant about protecting you. Part of me knows this is further testament to his impeccable nature that was often described, but part of me knows it's a sign he cannot let you handle things alone. To be a healthy individual, I believe it's essential you learn how to cope alone, in all respects, for as long is needed, so that you can believe it is possible.

I would say the same to your H. 

Good luck for the future.


----------



## Evinrude58

As stated, this thread was brought forth by her for one reason: to get her ex husband to interact with her. She posted nothing whatsoever that was honest and complete about her relationship with her ex, or the OM.

She has been doling out info for the sole purpose of getting her ex's attention. 

The more I think about it, the more manipulative she appears to be. And she us good at it. She's no dummy, for sure.

In all her posts, she has not posted one single reason for her cheating. 
She didn't post anything that might be misunderstood as negative about her husband for obvious reasons.

She won't be back, and never came hear but to get help in ensnaring her ex, which she has successfully manipulated into thinking things are all his fault.

I hope everything turns out ok, but the more I think about it, the more I think there's an obvious integrity problem with this woman which she won't address, and apparently not even she can explain a reasonable explanation for the flaw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

Sorry Wishs..... to some its so easy to see through

We aren't your husband I'm afraid


ADD

Go read L.H. thread and see how one of the very very very few women react when they are truly remorseful when they post

She is one of only a handful I would go out of my way to help

.


----------



## Jponce06

This is all assuming she knew of his thread and would think some one would tie hers and her ex husbands together. I'm a bit annoyed some one linked her ex husbands thread like in the third page which clammed her up. I know it's the Internet but I truly wish people would be more mindful when exposing BS threads to WS. If it were a WH finding their BW through some one linking it. I'm sure more people would of been upset and vocal about it.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Jponce87 said:


> This is all assuming she knew of his thread and would think some one would tie hers and her ex husbands together. I'm a bit annoyed some one linked her ex husbands thread like in the third page which clammed her up. I know it's the Internet but I truly wish people would be more mindful when exposing BS threads to WS. If it were a WH finding their BW through some one linking it. I'm sure more people would of been upset and vocal about it.


Don't get all reasonable on us! We're all here to bash wishes and make her pay for our own WS sins!


----------



## Maxo

TheTruthHurts said:


> Don't get all reasonable on us! We're all here to bash wishes and make her pay for our own WS sins!


Well, that and also to make sure our high IQs are recognized( even if it is not apparent from our post,so it has to be pointed out:grin2:


----------



## G.J.

TheTruthHurts said:


> Don't get all reasonable on us! We're all here to bash wishes and make her pay for our own WS sins!


now your getting in to the spirit :lol:

Even with a brain the size of a planet you can have a joke


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Just to restate the obvious - there is a real family behind this and at least two sides of the story. I'm sure it's not neat and tidy and all one person's fault. And I think the constant jabs and joking is actually pretty low and disturbing. I've been here only a short while - relative to long time TAM people - and this thread is a sad commentary on the TAM community. Just my $.02 - feel free to start up again now.


----------



## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> Would be nice. I'm not sure she even knows.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do know, but you're not ready for it. Not you personally ConanHub, but you as in TAM. Please do not respond to this. I already know what you are going to say. Please, just give me a break this one time,


----------



## Wishes

I change my mind.


----------



## Maxo

Wishes said:


> Despite your "low IQ" what are you bring to this thread?


7 inches?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Maxo said:


> 7 inches?



Can we have some dignity please


----------



## Wishes

*OneTimeTooMany* 

I also think that was a very real post. Thank you for asking honest questions. OneTimeTooMany, this reply is not directed at you personally.

My reply is that there is no conflict in my posts. There does seem to be, however, a conflict in the interest of posters on this forum. I posted my story, my heart, my hurt, my pain…but you are only interested in DoneGone's story, his heart, his hurt, his pain. Get it? I posted that there are two sides to this story because most of you have only been interested in DG’s side of the story. Are you in denial? Do some reading.

And before you claim that you gave me a chance to tell my side of the story, read again. Do some review. You asked me to give my side of the story so you could compare it to DoneGone’s version to see if I were lying or not. Being that DG wrote his while it was happening and I am writing a year later, I believe that puts me in a losing situation and will only give you more ammunition to use on me. Plus, you let me know that any inconsistency between my and his story would prove I am a liar.
So, I am telling you there are two sides to this story and then there is the truth, somewhere in the middle. There is no conflict here. DoneGone probably received a lot of therapy when he read your postings to me. I would say that is a conflict in interest,


----------



## Maxo

As the poster points out,your characterizationz of your husband' s role in your marriage and his role in your dissatisfaction are not consistent.
And,it seems that he was justified in not appreciating hour excessive texting with an earlier male contact,as,ultimately, you did start messing around with a guy.


----------



## 2asdf2

Wishes said:


> *OneTimeTooMany*
> 
> I also think that was a very real post. Thank you for asking honest questions. OneTimeTooMany, this reply is not directed at you personally.
> 
> My reply is that there is not conflict in my posts. There does seem to be, however, a conflict in the interest of posters on this forum. I posted my story, my heart, my hurt, my pain…but you are only interested in DoneGone's story, his heart, his hurt, his pain. Get it? I posted that there are two sides to this story because most of you have only been interested in DG’s side of the story. Are you in denial? Do some reading.
> 
> And before you claim that you gave me a chance to tell my side of the story, read again. Do some review. You asked me to give my side of the story *so you could compare it to DoneGone’s version to see if I were lying or not*. Being that DG wrote his while it was happening and I am writing a year later, I believe that puts me in a losing situation and will only give you more ammunition to use on me. Plus, you let me know that any inconsistency between my and his story would prove I am a liar.
> So, I am telling you there are two sides to this story and then there is the truth, somewhere in the middle. There is no conflict here. DoneGone probably received a lot of therapy when he read your postings to me. I would say that is a conflict in interest,


The part I bolded is a good stretch.:frown2:



The way you post, you seem to think everyone is against you and that we are all extreme-right thinkers.

I am neither.


----------



## Wishes

2asdf2 said:


> The part I bolded is a good stretch.:frown2:
> 
> 
> 
> The way you post, you seem to think everyone is against you and that we are all extreme-right thinkers.
> 
> I am neither.[/QUOTE
> 
> *2asdf2* you replied without doing your reading. Also, you know I was not talking about you. "The way I post?" 2asdf2, you have not been reading this thread, have you? (joke)


----------



## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> *OneTimeTooMany*
> 
> I also think that was a very real post. Thank you for asking honest questions. OneTimeTooMany, this reply is not directed at you personally.
> 
> My reply is that there is no conflict in my posts. There does seem to be, however, a conflict in the interest of posters on this forum. I posted my story, my heart, my hurt, my pain…but you are only interested in DoneGone's story, his heart, his hurt, his pain. Get it? I posted that there are two sides to this story because most of you have only been interested in DG’s side of the story. Are you in denial? Do some reading.
> 
> And before you claim that you gave me a chance to tell my side of the story, read again. Do some review. You asked me to give my side of the story so you could compare it to DoneGone’s version to see if I were lying or not. Being that DG wrote his while it was happening and I am writing a year later, I believe that puts me in a losing situation and will only give you more ammunition to use on me. Plus, you let me know that any inconsistency between my and his story would prove I am a liar.
> So, I am telling you there are two sides to this story and then there is the truth, somewhere in the middle. There is no conflict here. DoneGone probably received a lot of therapy when he read your postings to me. I would say that is a conflict in interest,


Well. If you like, you could hit the ignore feature on any poster you don't want to hear from and will not see their posts.

I have not referenced SI and actually am interested in your perspective. I obviously take no justifications and I speak hard but I'm also fair with honest people no matter what they have done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2asdf2

It is not the first time you have said I did not do my reading. :smile2: but I have.

But even then. The paranoia permeates the single post that I quoted.

There have been quite a few people that have supported you on this thread, even at least one, offering a personal sounding board for you.

Just don't kill it again today! :x


----------



## wmn1

Wishes said:


> *OneTimeTooMany*
> 
> I also think that was a very real post. Thank you for asking honest questions. OneTimeTooMany, this reply is not directed at you personally.
> 
> My reply is that there is no conflict in my posts. There does seem to be, however, a conflict in the interest of posters on this forum. I posted my story, my heart, my hurt, my pain…but you are only interested in DoneGone's story, his heart, his hurt, his pain. Get it? I posted that there are two sides to this story because most of you have only been interested in DG’s side of the story. Are you in denial? Do some reading.
> 
> And before you claim that you gave me a chance to tell my side of the story, read again. Do some review. You asked me to give my side of the story so you could compare it to DoneGone’s version to see if I were lying or not. Being that DG wrote his while it was happening and I am writing a year later, I believe that puts me in a losing situation and will only give you more ammunition to use on me. Plus, you let me know that any inconsistency between my and his story would prove I am a liar.
> So, I am telling you there are two sides to this story and then there is the truth, somewhere in the middle. There is no conflict here. DoneGone probably received a lot of therapy when he read your postings to me. I would say that is a conflict in interest,


DG feels you are not posting your side of the story in order to protect him. He said he would accept you posting your side if it would allow you to heal.

You have already acknowledged the damage you caused, yet you still love this guy and he still has significant feelings for you. 

So what is the barrier right now ? Are the kids trying to encourage you two to get back together ? 

BTW, I am not sure this thread has been 'therapy' to DG. It seems to have caused him so much confusion


----------



## Wishes

wmn1 said:


> DG feels you are not posting your side of the story in order to protect him. He said he would accept you posting your side if it would allow you to heal.
> 
> You have already acknowledged the damage you caused, yet you still love this guy and he still has significant feelings for you.
> 
> So what is the barrier right now ? Are the kids trying to encourage you two to get back together ?
> 
> BTW, I am not sure this thread has been 'therapy' to DG. It seems to have caused him so much confusion



the kids do want us back together and I could explain what happened between me and DG but it would just bring on a 'so what' moment. I understand that. Nothing I say is going to make what I did ok. 

Also, I have read DG's thread in it's entirely and he never lied, however, he did not have his facts straight either. He wrote what he thought was the truth and nothing he wrote really changes the fact that I cheated on him and I am 100% responsible for that. Once he realized the truth, I think it softened his position on me but does not really change anything.


----------



## Satya

Wishes said:


> I posted my story, my heart, my hurt, my pain…but you are only interested in DoneGone's story, his heart, his hurt, his pain. Get it? I posted that there are two sides to this story because most of you have only been interested in DG’s side of the story. Are you in denial? Do some reading.


If you are addressing a particular poster, then I apologize for responding more generally. TAM has far more BS browsing it than WS, so the desire for empathy with your situation isn't quite a fruitless endeavour, but it's certainly a tougher one here, coming from your side than perhaps it would be on SI (from what I've observed of its community they appear to have more resources focused on the WS side).



Wishes said:


> And before you claim that you gave me a chance to tell my side of the story, read again. Do some review. *You asked me to give my side of the story so you could compare it to DoneGone’s version to see if I were lying or not.*


As for the part I bolded, that statement could very well be true of some posters, but please don't assume all. Personally, I wanted to read both sides so I could have a more informed view, not because I was hoping to catch one or both of you in a lie. After all, lying isn't going to hurt me or any other poster, it would have inevitably hurt either you or DG were it found out. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing, so I don't quite understand why you would be upset at posters doing what I think would come naturally with such a discovery. 

Putting your story here does not guarantee posters will side with it. How they feel or what they do is their choice. SI has a nice little phrase that posters are safe there. I do not think anyone posting on the Internet is "safe," but I hope that the more valuable posts here were helpful, because there were quite a few posters trying to be genuinely helpful I believe.


----------



## bfree

Wishes, I've not read anything outside of TAM. I have no desire to do so. If your only purpose in creating this thread is to ask if you have any chance of getting your husband back I would say you've received your answer a long time ago. In that case I might suggest either stop posting or have a mod close this thread. If as I suspect, on the other hand, you actually would like advice on other aspects of your marriage, your affair, your relationship post divorce etc then I for one would be happy to help in any way I can. As I've posted in another thread there is no excuse for infidelity but there is usually an underlying current of miscommunication and some unmet needs at the very least that sets the groundwork for infidelity to occur. So if you are seeking help in order to heal I would encourage you to open up about the problems you perceived in your marriage pre affair, not to bash or otherwise denigrate your husband but to work through how those issues came to be at a level that caused the eventual destruction of the marriage. Again, I have not read anything other than what you've written here and have no preconceived ideas that would bias my thoughts.


----------



## eric1

Wishes if you post on SI please remember they're extremely manipulative behind the scenes. I was told that 'I am not permitted to discuss divorce', which I kindly told the guy to go **** himself. People come to these places for a variety of consensuses, not to assuage the conscious of a guy who was cuckolded by someone who looks like a hairless Grimace from those McDonalds commercials.

Where am I going with this? If you want to talk to your husband I do not see these forums being conducive to a direct connection between you too. All of these forums have their biases. 

You need connection, not advice, at this stage. Lock yourself in a room with him with a few bottles of wine and let it flow.


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> the kids do want us back together and I could explain what happened between me and DG but it would just bring on a 'so what' moment. I understand that. Nothing I say is going to make what I did ok.
> 
> Also, I have read DG's thread in it's entirely and he never lied, however, he did not have his facts straight either. He wrote what he thought was the truth and nothing he wrote really changes the fact that I cheated on him and I am 100% responsible for that. Once he realized the truth, I think it softened his position on me but does not really change anything.


Yes ,

I believe DG knows he went overboard with the co worker from CA.
He knows he was wrong in his assumptions. Yet you are still right that it doesn't justify the affair. I understand your plight as not posting your side. It would come off as excuses or justifications without you even meaning it to be. The truth of the matter is DG handled that situation poorly with the co worker from CA. And in kind, you handled his response to that situation poorly as well


The question is;

Once you release a raging bull in a china shop..is it worth it to put the pieces back together again..or start all over with a new China shop? Only you and DG know that.


----------



## Wishes

SoulStorm said:


> Yes ,
> 
> I believe DG knows he went overboard with the co worker from CA.
> He knows he was wrong in his assumptions. Yet you are still right that it doesn't justify the affair. I understand your plight as not posting your side. It would come off as excuses or justifications without you even meaning it to be. The truth of the matter is DG handled that situation poorly with the co worker from CA. And in kind, you handled his response to that situation poorly as well
> 
> 
> The question is;
> 
> Once you release a raging bull in a china shop..is it worth it to put the pieces back together again..or start all over with a new China shop? Only you and DG know that.


You are so right and DG is justified in doing what ever he decides to do. I get no say or deserve no say in his decision. When he was moving in the direction of divorcing me, he told me he probably was ‘not done’ with me. He explained there was an imbalance in our relationship and basically, he would not be making a decision about us, until he had restored balance.
I thought he was talking about getting even by having a revenge affair. To be honest, I almost died. I argued that two wrongs do not make a right. He assured me he had no interest in getting even. He said that in order for him to even the score, he would have to do something beneath himself and even then there would remain an imbalance because where I had cheated against a faithful lover, he would only be cheating against a cheater. He was not saying these things to hurt me but it hurt beyond any words I can say. This was his explanation as to why our relationship could never be balanced again. I told him that I would do anything but he asked me how I could possibly restore justice; how could I restore our marriage to its original state? He said that the pathway to reconciliation would be through divorce.

So, he holds the cards and I truly want him to do only what is best for him.


----------



## wmn1

Wishes said:


> the kids do want us back together and I could explain what happened between me and DG but it would just bring on a 'so what' moment. I understand that. Nothing I say is going to make what I did ok.
> 
> Also, I have read DG's thread in it's entirely and he never lied, however, he did not have his facts straight either. He wrote what he thought was the truth and nothing he wrote really changes the fact that I cheated on him and I am 100% responsible for that. Once he realized the truth, I think it softened his position on me but does not really change anything.


I think it's healthy that you are still taking ownership of your actions and what you say above is correct.

There are some here, myself included, who ultimately hope that the both of you come to a conclusion soon regarding where this is headed. And you do have a right to tell your story. While nothing justifies cheating, you obviously have some issues that you feel you may need to get off your chest. You have a right to be heard as well


----------



## Fenris

Wishes said:


> I told him that I would do anything but he asked me how I could possibly restore justice; how could I restore our marriage to its original state? He said that the pathway to reconciliation would be through divorce.
> 
> So, he holds the cards and I truly want him to do only what is best for him.


The marriage will NEVER be restored to its original state. Infidelity is to relationship as chainsaw is to tree. 

The best that can be hoped for is that a new relationship can be planted and sprout and grow strong. If you want a chance at having a relationship with him, you'll have to be incredibly patient, and even more hardworking. 

Good luck.


----------



## just got it 55

Wishes said:


> You are so right and DG is justified in doing what ever he decides to do. I get no say or deserve no say in his decision. When he was moving in the direction of divorcing me, he told me he probably was ‘not done’ with me. He explained there was an imbalance in our relationship and basically, he would not be making a decision about us, until he had restored balance.
> I thought he was talking about getting even by having a revenge affair. To be honest, I almost died. I argued that two wrongs do not make a right. He assured me he had no interest in getting even. He said that in order for him to even the score, he would have to do something beneath himself and even then there would remain an imbalance because where I had cheated against a faithful lover, he would only be cheating against a cheater. He was not saying these things to hurt me but it hurt beyond any words I can say. This was his explanation as to why our relationship could never be balanced again. I told him that I would do anything but he asked me how I could possibly restore justice; how could I restore our marriage to its original state? He said that the pathway to reconciliation would be through divorce.
> 
> So, he holds the cards and I truly want him to do only what is best for him.


Wishes this slight opening up will help the perception of you from other readers

Your defensiveness is understandable but not entirely helpful.

The ignore button is your friend as has been pointed out.

Your withholding your side at first seemed like you were hiding things

I understand your position on this but as your story unfolds you will be more humanized and not perceived as just a POS cheater.


The people here generally want to empathize I recommend that you do stand up for yourself but please just disregard the trash comments and eliminate your replies to them.
@EI and @LosingHim took tons of trash talk and they are now considered to be helpful honest posters to help people that are here for genuine help.

Hoping for the best in your life

55


----------



## SoulStorm

Wishes said:


> You are so right and DG is justified in doing what ever he decides to do. I get no say or deserve no say in his decision. When he was moving in the direction of divorcing me, he told me he probably was ‘not done’ with me. He explained there was an imbalance in our relationship and basically, he would not be making a decision about us, until he had restored balance.
> I thought he was talking about getting even by having a revenge affair. To be honest, I almost died. I argued that two wrongs do not make a right. He assured me he had no interest in getting even. He said that in order for him to even the score, he would have to do something beneath himself and even then there would remain an imbalance because where I had cheated against a faithful lover, he would only be cheating against a cheater. He was not saying these things to hurt me but it hurt beyond any words I can say. This was his explanation as to why our relationship could never be balanced again. I told him that I would do anything but he asked me how I could possibly restore justice; how could I restore our marriage to its original state? He said that the pathway to reconciliation would be through divorce.
> 
> So, he holds the cards and I truly want him to do only what is best for him.


In reading this response, despite what people may think,you love DG. I surmise this as to the fact that you went through with the divorce even though you didn't want it. Even DG didn't want it, but this was his way of trying to heal. So you surrendered to it. You defend him quite often. To your friends, to the OM and even to us with your silence of not implicating him. Love can let things go, even when the person wants to desperately hold on to that thing selfishly. You let DG go because he was justified to. You said you would do anything..you did. Now it's left to time and what you do with it.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

SoulStorm said:


> In reading this response, despite what people may think,you love DG. I surmise this as to the fact that you went through with the divorce even though you didn't want it. Even DG didn't want it, but this was his way of trying to heal. So you surrendered to it. You defend him quite often. To your friends, to the OM and even to us with your silence of not implicating him. Love can let things go, even when the person wants to desperately hold on to that thing selfishly. You let DG go because he was justified to. You said you would do anything..you did. Now it's left to time and what you do with it.


Now y'all are getting somewhere in reading Wishes correctly.


----------



## Evinrude58

I wouldn't worry. He's going to take you back. I'd bet my next paycheck. 
Since I am a betrayed spouse, I'm thinking he feels that for the rest of his days, he is not going to be good enough-- always second best in bed.
That you obviously don't need him. That you may find thst perfect guy tomorrow and be off again. 
He has no sense of security anymore In the marriage.

You wiukd have to spend years treating him like you loved him like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, to make him feel semi- secure again.

Why are you sorry? Why do you now want your husband? If you get him back, would you go back to wanting something more!
Why?

Anyway, he's yours. He never wanted to leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sparrow555

Just when the thread is dying down on both the site , DG started some more drama in SI. 

People should be wary about indulging these couple. 

Her logic is people won't believe me("not you though"). Then why the heck did you start posting in the first place ? Lots of words but zero content or substance and antagonizing the posters. 

At this point, I will take bandit's route and consider both of them as trolls trolling for attention. Posting on different forums is a very good way to cause drama(forum fights) and also skip the troll detector.


----------



## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> You are so right and DG is justified in doing what ever he decides to do. I get no say or deserve no say in his decision. When he was moving in the direction of divorcing me, he told me he probably was ‘not done’ with me. He explained there was an imbalance in our relationship and basically, he would not be making a decision about us, until he had restored balance.
> I thought he was talking about getting even by having a revenge affair. To be honest, I almost died. I argued that two wrongs do not make a right. He assured me he had no interest in getting even. He said that in order for him to even the score, he would have to do something beneath himself and even then there would remain an imbalance because where I had cheated against a faithful lover, he would only be cheating against a cheater. He was not saying these things to hurt me but it hurt beyond any words I can say. This was his explanation as to why our relationship could never be balanced again. I told him that I would do anything but he asked me how I could possibly restore justice; how could I restore our marriage to its original state? He said that the pathway to reconciliation would be through divorce.
> 
> So, he holds the cards and I truly want him to do only what is best for him.


Your ex is very insightful.

Your old marriage was certainly destroyed. You both may have weakened it through mishandling regular marital issues and you pushed the button that vaporized it completely.

Having a new marriage is only answer.

The question is, Will you be his wife in the new relationship?

To have a new marriage after cheating, you need to become a new person.

The person you were isn't trustworthy and hardly marriage material.
Becoming a different person is the only real answer.

You cheated because you wanted to.

Discovering why you wanted it, in all it's ugliness explored, will be necessary for you to change from someone that even considers cheating a viable choice, into someone who would not cheat if lives depended on it.

Self hatred, regret, remorse, disgust and self anger are all healthy responses to doing disgusting and harmful things.

The key is to use those negative feelings to destroy the backstabbing betrayer you were and replace her with a woman of honor, integrity and dignity.

Become a healthy woman and someone who is a good choice as a mate before trying too hard to get your ex back.

He needs an honorable and trustworthy woman as wife.

Become her and be available.

I'm sincerely hoping you are not dating or otherwise seeing anyone at all?

One of the biggest mistakes I have ever seen is when someone wants their betrayed partner back but accepts attention from others.

I know he seems to be moving on but I almost feel he is watching to see if you will change your life.

I know he is so damaged that he probably isn't thinking at full capacity but I believe he is not done with you as he says.

If you haven't become involved with anyone since you ended it with the biggest loser in the world then make sure to keep it that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jsmart

Wishes said:


> You are so right and DG is justified in doing what ever he decides to do. I get no say or deserve no say in his decision. When he was moving in the direction of divorcing me, he told me he probably was ‘not done’ with me. *He explained there was an imbalance in our relationship and basically, he would not be making a decision about us, until he had restored balance.*
> I thought he was talking about getting even by having a revenge affair. To be honest, I almost died. I argued that two wrongs do not make a right. He assured me he had no interest in getting even. He said that in order for him to even the score, he would have to do something beneath himself and even then t*here would remain an imbalance because where I had cheated against a faithful lover, he would only be cheating against a cheater.* He was not saying these things to hurt me but it hurt beyond any words I can say. This was his explanation as to why our relationship could never be balanced again. I told him that I would do anything but he asked me how I could possibly restore justice; how could I restore our marriage to its original state? *He said that the pathway to reconciliation would be through divorce.*
> 
> So, he holds the cards and I truly want him to do only what is best for him.


I've said it several times, I believe when he's even the scales a little, he'll want you back. Quite a few disagreed with me but it was clear he hated having to divorce you but it had to be done.

Only one woman can be his wife and mother of his kids.
He may find a hotter woman, but going by what he's written, there isn't another woman on this planet that could fill your position in his heart.

You had a very sexual PA for several months. As much as it pains you, he needs a chance to even the scales. It's unfortunate that he ended it with the OBS because she was the perfect revenge partner. Any other woman could end up hurt or who knows, steal his heart. But with the OBS, there would have been an understanding that they were using each other to ease the pain and even the score but that it wasn't going anywhere. 

Your penance would be waiting, knowing what's happening. But even if he were to have a sexual affair for as many months as you did, the scale would still be off not only because the depth of the betrayal but like he said, there would be no betrayal on his part.


----------



## convert

GusPolinski said:


> OK, so apparently Wishes is indeed DG's XWW.
> 
> And it looks like OMW may have somehow caught wind of this thread and shared it w/ Wishes'/DG's kids...?
> 
> That's pretty messed up.
> 
> Not sure it will have the effect she was probably hoping to see. *Hell... if anything, it might wind up bringing Wishes and DG back together...*
> 
> ...which would be pretty messed up as well.
> 
> Then again, @bandit.45 may very well be correct.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wishes, Gus maybe right if anything this thread and connecting it into DG's thread on SI might bring you two back together.

So if it does, TAM has helped you in an indirect and direct way even (especially) with all the 2x4's

the next time DG ask you out for coffee . GO


----------



## ConanHub

@Wishes

Ok. I had to check out SI to get more insight.

Your ex explained a lot and owned some of his shyt.

Please open up and overcome your fear.

It sounds like it was your fear of standing up to your husband that led to becoming entangled with a moron.

It is unhealthy and a good time to overcome it.

I have a better picture of you now and you could provide a better one.

Please don't make me scan SI to talk to you.

I want to talk to you here.

Your actions aren't excusable but understanding the dynamics of where you were at and what happened are vital.

You need to overcome your fear. I know this will be hard because you can't even trust yourself now.

It is necessary though.

I am truly sorry for your situation and how terribly you responded to it.

Overcoming your fears is a needed step. I am sincerely hopeful for your recovery.

Was some of your trash talking towards your then BH do to unresolved anger about marital issues?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> @Wishes
> 
> Ok. I had to check out SI to get more insight.
> 
> Your ex explained a lot and owned some of his shyt.
> 
> Please open up and overcome your fear.
> 
> It sounds like it was your fear of standing up to your husband that led to becoming entangled with a moron
> 
> It is unhealthy and a good time to overcome it.
> 
> I have a better picture of you now and you could provide a better one.
> 
> Please don't make me scan SI to talk to you.
> 
> I want to talk to you here.
> 
> Your actions aren't excusable but understanding the dynamics of where you were at and what happened are vital.
> 
> You need to overcome your fear. I know this will be hard because you can't even trust yourself now.
> 
> It is necessary though.
> 
> I am truly sorry for your situation and how terribly you responded to it.
> 
> Overcoming your fears is a needed step. I am sincerely hopeful for your recovery.
> 
> Was some of your trash talking towards your then BH do to unresolved anger about marital issues?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*It sounds like it was your fear of standing up to your husband that led to becoming entangled with a moron.*

The fear I experienced with my husband was a fear of falling short and disappointing him. I learned nothing about the outside world while growing up. I lived my childhood and adolescence hid out in my room. Whenever I was not in my room, I was in danger and sometimes bad things happened. My dad was extremely abusive and my mother was beat down and brainwashed.
When I left for college, I spent my freshman year pretty much like the first 18 years of my life; go to class, go to work, go to my room.
My sophomore year, I met my husband, or better to say, my husband met me and my world changed and was never again the same as it had been. 
So he was my world. He was my moral compass as to what was right and wrong, he was my tour guide through life. Pleasing him was not only the only thing I wanted to do, it was the only thing I knew how to do.
When everything came tumbling down, it was not because of my fear to stand up to my husband, it was that I had stood up to my husband and all fell on deaf ears. He had a sense of right and wrong that was inalterable. What was right for him had to be right for me. This is where our relationship developed cracks. 

*Was some of your trash talking towards your then BH do to unresolved anger about marital issues?*

It is difficult to answer this because I am not sure what the answer is. I was hugely disappointed in my husband but at battle with myself. He was my rock, anchor and support. I had invested the entirety of me in him, and just like that, everything changed and I didn't know what was real anymore.

I did what I did, eyes wide open. It was no accident, it was more a game that turned very serious. I never intended it to go as far as it did, but it did.


----------



## Wishes

jsmart said:


> I've said it several times, I believe when he's even the scales a little, he'll want you back. Quite a few disagreed with me but it was clear he hated having to divorce you but it had to be done.
> 
> Only one woman can be his wife and mother of his kids.
> He may find a hotter woman, but going by what he's written, there isn't another woman on this planet that could fill your position in his heart.
> 
> You had a very sexual PA for several months. As much as it pains you, he needs a chance to even the scales. It's unfortunate that he ended it with the OBS because she was the perfect revenge partner. Any other woman could end up hurt or who knows, steal his heart. But with the OBS, there would have been an understanding that they were using each other to ease the pain and even the score but that it wasn't going anywhere.
> 
> Your penance would be waiting, knowing what's happening. But even if he were to have a sexual affair for as many months as you did, the scale would still be off not only because the depth of the betrayal but like he said, there would be no betrayal on his part.


I agree, he had to divorce me, and now, I have reached the point to where I am glad he did. There is a lot of me that was lost, in which I would have never found, had we not been divorced. I was force to confront the real me outside his shadow. As I have begun to learn about me, I have discovered some redeemable qualities. I have been in therapy for 2 years and have worked through many childhood and adulthood issues.

He has not ended it with the OBS. Between other women, she is his FWB. They get along quite well.


----------



## Wishes

convert said:


> Wishes, Gus maybe right if anything this thread and connecting it into DG's thread on SI might bring you two back together.
> 
> So if it does, TAM has helped you in an indirect and direct way even (especially) with all the 2x4's
> 
> the next time DG ask you out for coffee . GO


Good thing I did not read this post yesterday because he invited me for drinks last night and I again declined. He is reading this thread so what I will say now is something he can explain.

Since the beginning of DG's relationship with OMW I get a text every now and then with this statement, "I just got me some more healing."

No, we won't be having drinks anytime soon. My journey to health does not include that kind of stop along the way.


----------



## ConanHub

Wishes said:


> Good thing I did not read this post yesterday because he invited me for drinks last night and I again declined. He is reading this thread so what I will say now is something he can explain.
> 
> Since the beginning of DG's relationship with OMW I get a text every now and then with this statement, "I just got me some more healing."
> 
> No, we won't be having drinks anytime soon. My journey to health does not include that kind of stop along the way.


Having a better understanding of you, I can say I'm actually proud of you.

Is your ex in any counseling or therapy?
He is making harmful choices and made a lot of them through the marriage.

His continuing behavior indicates a lack of good coping skills.
I'm obviously sorry for the devastating pain your affair caused him but also for his floundering while trying to heal himself.

His texts indicate a desire to hurt you some for payback, not for his healing or yours.

What are some things you are discovering about yourself since you are on your own?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TX-SC

Now that you are opening up some more, it's easier to see where you are in all this. DG is taunting you with his new relationship while still trying to win you back? That's just messed up.


----------



## Wishes

ConanHub said:


> Having a better understanding of you, I can say I'm actually proud of you.
> 
> Is your ex in any counseling or therapy?
> He is making harmful choices and made a lot of them through the marriage.
> 
> His continuing behavior indicates a lack of good coping skills.
> I'm obviously sorry for the devastating pain your affair caused him but also for his floundering while trying to heal himself.
> 
> His texts indicate a desire to hurt you some for payback, not for his healing or yours.
> 
> What are some things you are discovering about yourself since you are on your own?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That I exist.
I have discovered I have wonderful friends.
I have learned to forgive myself;
not just my horrible behavior with the affair,
but for the fear and loathing of myself throughout the years.
I have learned that the bad things that happened to me was
not my fault and I need no longer define myself by them.
I have learned deep compassion for the child in me and I want her
to know it going to be alright.
I have learned that I am not defined by the worst decision I ever 
made not more than I am defined by the best decision I ever 
made. When you learn from your past, you realize that you’re not
destined to repeat it. That’s life-changing, because it means you cannot be defined by old mistakes.
I have learned I will be ok.

My ex has agreed to come to therapy with me and take it seriously. This is yet to be seen I have told him this will not work while he seeing other women. So, as it has always been, the ball is in his court.

Thank-you ConanHub for caring about me as a person and making meaningful statements and suggestions.
Thank-you so much.


----------



## just got it 55

Wishes weather or not you are following my advise

It is apparent that you are in fact human.

Yes I am proud of your owning your **** and seems you have made progress.

The fact that DG seems to be wanting to punish and further hurt you is very sad.

After all he claims he did not want to but had to D you

In reading his two threads I would have never imagined he would do this.

The point is you have made progress not just running to him even if that's all you want is to be together again.

Wishes the best thing God ever made is another day.

Keep posting you are gaining ground to healing.

And possibly R

55


----------



## owl6118

Wishes, I only wrote to you once, on the subject of living with integrity. Sadly it came in the middle of the cross fire. From what you write today it sounds like you are asking great questions and making great strides toward self knowledge and integration, which is the foundation of integrity. Keep on bravely.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wishes said:


> Good thing I did not read this post yesterday because he invited me for drinks last night and I again declined. He is reading this thread so what I will say now is something he can explain.
> 
> Since the beginning of DG's relationship with OMW I get a text every now and then with this statement,* "I just got me some more healing."
> *
> No, we won't be having drinks anytime soon. My journey to health does not include that kind of stop along the way.


This upsets me greatly... Deeply cruel at this point


----------



## Wishes

Blossom Leigh said:


> This upsets me greatly... Deeply cruel at this point


I am used to it. It does not bother me so much anymore.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Wishes said:


> I am used to it. It does not bother me so much anymore.


I know cause you are a survivor. Its what us survivors do, compartmentalize the pain. Forced emotional agility if you will. But I call him out on that destructive attitude and challenge him to knock it off. He is still responsible for his destructive behavior regardless of what you've done. You've paid a big enough price. Adding to it is only sadistic at this point. He can choose a constructive way to manage his pain instead of choosing ongoing effort of inflicting injury on you.


----------



## farsidejunky

Thank you for your transparency, @Wishes.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Adelais

What DG is telling you now ("got some healing") is cruel, and he admitted to being cruel in his thread. It is also a little twisted, IMO.

It sounds like you are not desperate to be with him, and you are keeping good boundaries. Since you are divorced, you have no obligation to him. In addition, he is free to date whomever he wants. *However, you have the right to decide that you will not be one of several girlfriends.*

I'm so glad you are getting some understanding of yourself in IC. It sounds like DG was your guide through life, and then after he fell apart over the texting, he abused that position. Now you see him as a whole individual, with good qualities and with deep flaws too.

If he stops seeing OW, and the two of you get back together, it truly will be a new, different marriage. You have learned that you have something good to contribute to the marriage, and obviously he does too.

I'm so glad that you have come back, and that you are opening up! I can understand your journey, as I had to do some similar work, 28 years ago, in order to heal and become a secure person.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> What DG is telling you now ("got some healing") is cruel, and he admitted to being cruel in his thread. It is also a little twisted, IMO.
> 
> It sounds like you are not desperate to be with him, and you are keeping good boundaries. Since you are divorced, you have no obligation to him. In addition, he is free to date whomever he wants. *However, you have the right to decide that you will not be one of several girlfriends.*
> 
> I'm so glad you are getting some understanding of yourself in IC. It sounds like DG was your guide through life, and then after he fell apart over the texting, he abused that position. Now you see him as a whole individual, with good qualities and with deep flaws too.
> 
> If he stops seeing OW, and the two of you get back together, it truly will be a new, different marriage. You have learned that you have something good to contribute to the marriage, and obviously he does too.
> 
> I'm so glad that you have come back, and that you are opening up! I can understand your journey, as I had to do some similar work, 28 years ago, in order to heal and become a secure person.


Great post. Nor does she have to accept his verbal cruelty. You can't afford any more injury. If it were me I would insulate myself from his destructiveness until he stopped and began choosing better.


----------



## Adelais

Wishes, I hate to say this, but I need to say it before you meet with him in person. 

I am not trying to offend, but to protect you. 

Although sex is the last thing on your mind right now, you and your husband have a long history together, so things could move very quickly. *Do not have sex with him.* Make sure he knows that he needs to abstain from sex with other women, and have an *STD test* before you have sex with him. Did you know that AIDS has an incubation period of 6 months to a year? Did you have an STD test after you were with the other guy?


----------



## blahfridge

WIshes, thank you for coming back here and giving more of your side of the story. Some of what you have written brought me to tears, both for you and for myself as it reflects back on some of my own issues. I hope and pray that both you and your H can come out of all this as better people, whether that happens together or apart.


----------



## eastsouth2000

Happy Easter and I pray that you can find each other again!


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Welcome back wishes! I'm really glad you're posting and have people on your side to help you through the process of reviewing your past and letting the little girl in you understand what happened to her. That's a huge step forward.

As I said I never read EXH's thread, but he's sounding a bit more human now and not always in a good way.

With time you will be in a better position to know what you want with the rest of your life. You will have a new and better life in many ways by processing your past and getting free from it. I'm really encouraged and proud of you


----------



## blahfridge

Survivorgirl said:


> don't worry; she's probably not wearing underwear...so no worries there. eh? these people walk among us...or are bent over among us...either way..meh


You sound very bitter and angry and I'm guessing that has little to do with Wishes actions and more to do with what you've been through. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course, but I can't see how your last few posts are in any way going to help wishes move forward. It seems to me that she is aware of all that you have called her and more but the fact is some people ARE damaged by their FOO and without understanding how that contributed to their cheating, then no amount of beating up on themselves will change anything. 
She is trying to figure it out, so I think we should give her some credit there. As others have said many times before, the cheating is always on the WS, but the problems in the marriage are many times on both of them.


----------



## blahfridge

Survivorgirl said:


> There is nothing wrong with a little righteous anger and meh? bitter? lol..don't care if you, an anonymous poster, labels me bitter. What I am is honest. You should try it. I don't plan on coddling this cheater. That's not getting her anyway. Maybe she knows more the likes of you in real life, so she thinks this is okay behavior. It is not! FOO issues? cry me a river. Get her into therapy. Hitler had FOO issues. Caligula had FOO issues. She's got an ENTITLEMENT issue and no moral compass. Give her credit? is there something wrong with you? Give her credit? For what? You want her to get credit but THERE BE NO CONSEQUENCE. What is there to figure out? She wanted sex, got sex and now pays the consequences for it because her husband didn't want an open marriage.
> And yeah, the CHOICE of cheating is on the WS; they cheated! :x
> My advice is the best advice she is going to get and if she's a smart chica, she's gonna ignore you and listen to me. She has no moral compass and no boundaries. Get into serious theraphy, stop feeling sorry for herself and don't do it again. And if the consequence is she's lost her marriage and husband, then that's life. Signed, angry, bitter but keeping it real


I don't know where to start here with answering this, so I'll just paraphrase back to you your own words - I don't much care what you, an anonymous poster, think of me or my motivations. As for consequences, in case you missed it, her H did divorce her already and she is in serious therapy. 

She originally asked for advice on whether or not it was feasible to hold out hope for a reconciliation. Obviously, you think not, that she doesn't deserve that chance. So be it, you could have made that point without spewing vitriol on everyone that disagrees with you. 

Enough said, I don't want to contribute to thread jacking.


----------



## blahfridge

Her H just posted on SI again and, reading between the lines, I'd say she is not the only one who has been guilty of lying, manipulation, and cruelty. There's obviously more there than any of us are aware of and it seems to me that they BOTH need serious help.


----------



## EleGirl

Survivorgirl said:


> the only predator here is you, OP. You've got a lot of nerve reacting to the honest, real reaction you are getting here from posters. In your immoral, cheating fog, others like you cheer you on. Here, your actions are heinous, predatory and your woe is me crap isn't gonna fly. What did you think would happen when you disclosed the depths of your treachery? Did you think we would cuddle you and say, there, there. you feel bad? well, sweetcakes, it's all forgiven. Shall we add delusion to predatory?
> You haven't EARNED the right to call me a name but if you want to, start with frigging honest.


You attacks on the Wishes are crossing a line here. We are here to help people, even WS. We are not there to denigrate and insult people to come to TAM for help.

You also have not EARNEd the right to speak to and about the OP in the manner that you are. Cool it. 

(Speaking as a moderator)


----------



## blahfridge

Survivorgirl said:


> No problem, moderator. Do you also plan on chastising Blahfridge for calling me angry and bitter and will Wishes be getting a stern warning for calling the posters here who don't agree with her actions predators? Meh..I read her ex's thread before she started posting here; it was the posters over there who picked him up when she did what she did to him.
> I stick by everything I said.


Hey SG, I said you SOUNDED bitter and angry, not necessarily that you are, but I'll take it back, sure. You sound like a *****cat...better? :grin2:

I thank God everyday for my sense of humor. Happy Easter, everyone.


----------



## farsidejunky

I predict the ban hammer coming in 3... 2... 1...

But keep spewing vitriol. 2x4's are one thing. Judgement without a willingness to help is quite another.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

Now that wishes is actually talking, things are making more sense.
He is totally in the wrong in the "getting a little healing" comment. 
Very wrong.
I do think it would be wise for both of you to break off all communication if you're thinking of reconciling, even of its on the future. No sense piling in any more pain than there already is
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Wishes, I hate to say this, but I need to say it before you meet with him in person.
> 
> I am not trying to offend, but to protect you.
> 
> Although sex is the last thing on your mind right now, you and your husband have a long history together, so things could move very quickly. *Do not have sex with him.* Make sure he knows that he needs to abstain from sex with other women, and have an *STD test* before you have sex with him. Did you know that AIDS has an incubation period of 6 months to a year? Did you have an STD test after you were with the other guy?


Totally agree with this. Just wanted to add that there is a newer, more expensive, more reliable test. It can detect HIV, much faster than 6 months. Most gp's don't Eve. Know about it. I had to take it, And the whole battery of other tests before anything took place with current gf.
No fun waiting in results, even if you have practiced "safe" sex and had few encounters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## blahfridge

Evinrude58 said:


> Now that wishes is actually talking, things are making more sense.
> He is totally in the wrong in the "getting a little healing" comment.
> Very wrong.
> I do think it would be wise for both of you to break off all communication if you're thinking of reconciling, even of its on the future. No sense piling in any more pain than there already is
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wrong, yes...but somewhat understandable. I had the same thought with my H as far as my EA goes. I didn't say it, but he knew that was part of the reason. I agree that she needs to stay away from him until he works that out.


----------



## sparrow555

Blossom Leigh said:


> This upsets me greatly... Deeply cruel at this point





Wishes said:


> I am used to it. It does not bother me so much anymore.



I know I said I wouldn't post, but what the heck is this ? Am I watching some mexican sopa opera ? Suddenly she is the victim now ? 

Lest people forget, this is the woman who played footsie with her OM while her husband was at the table. This was the woman who mocked her husband to her lover and manipulated their daughters against him.

Yeah, he is trying to hurt her. After finding out that his wife emasculated him, mocked him, had an affair with a loser when there was nothing wrong in the marriage, can do wonders to a man's psyche. You(Wishes) set the whole house on fire, now you cannot argue that you did not want one particular room to catch damage. That is the reality of your behavior. 



Wishes said:


> Good thing I did not read this post yesterday because he invited me for drinks last night and I again declined. He is reading this thread so what I will say now is something he can explain.
> 
> Since the beginning of DG's relationship with OMW I get a text every now and then with this statement, "I just got me some more healing."
> 
> No, we won't be having drinks anytime soon. My journey to health does not include that kind of stop along the way.



What do you mean by "*that kind of stop*" ?

Open relationships, uncommitted FWB ? What exactly do you mean ?


----------



## Adelais

Wishes, ignore Survivorgirl, who only had 4 posts and quit posting on November 18, 2015. She only came back today to slam you with 8 posts on your thread. She does not represent the community of TAM with her 12 posts in all.

Oh it's 11 posts now that she (he) has been banned.

Moderators, if I am out of line saying that, please PM me, and I will delete this post.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

sparrow555 said:


> I know I said I wouldn't post, but what the heck is this ? Am I watching some mexican sopa opera ? Suddenly she is the victim now ?
> 
> Lest people forget, this is the woman who played footsie with her OM while her husband was at the table. This was the woman who mocked her husband to her lover and manipulated their daughters against him.
> 
> Yeah, he is trying to hurt her. After finding out that his wife emasculated him, mocked him, had an affair with a loser when there was nothing wrong in the marriage, can do wonders to a man's psyche. You(Wishes) set the whole house on fire, now you cannot argue that you did not want one particular room to catch damage. That is the reality of your behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "*that kind of stop*" ?
> 
> Open relationships, uncommitted FWB ? What exactly do you mean ?


The full extent of issues has not been revealed here sparrow. By her graciousness to me, I am privy to information no one on this thread or the SI thread knows. Therefore trust me when I say... Those comments are particularly cruel and she in no way excuses her own behavior. But her behavior in no way gives him license to abuse her over and above the natural consequence of divorce. She has endured enough trauma over her life time. And I am very upset at her husband for choosing to be that calloused. He was ruptured bad, but she was ruptured first and I would advise him to remember that and refrain from continuing to be so cruel.


----------



## larry.gray

Hey Survivorgirl, do you know wishes outside TAM?


----------



## eric1

Wishes said:


> Good thing I did not read this post yesterday because he invited me for drinks last night and I again declined. He is reading this thread so what I will say now is something he can explain.
> 
> 
> 
> Since the beginning of DG's relationship with OMW I get a text every now and then with this statement, "I just got me some more healing."
> 
> 
> 
> No, we won't be having drinks anytime soon. My journey to health does not include that kind of stop along the way.



I like you


----------



## Adelais

sparrow555 said:


> What do you mean by "*that kind of stop*" ?


It sounds like she means a stop at the bar to have a drink with DG.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Blossom Leigh said:


> The full extent of issues has not been revealed here sparrow. By her graciousness to me, I am privy to information no one on this thread or the SI thread knows. Therefore trust me when I say... Those comments are particularly cruel and she in no way excuses her own behavior. But her behavior in no way gives him license to abuse her over and above the natural consequence of divorce. She has endured enough trauma over her life time. And I am very upset at her husband for choosing to be that calloused. He was ruptured bad, but she was ruptured first and I would advise him to remember that and refrain from continuing to be so cruel.


I agree with Sparrow! What she did with the POSOM while her husband came to see her at the restaurant and thereafter is unforgivable no matter what her background! It was vile and disrespectful and she is trying to say that she is broken and thats why she did it ? Whatever DG had done before, it did not merit that behaviour. That was all her. DG may be trying to give her a dose of her own medicine now or may be he is undecided as to what he wants to do. Telling her about it sounds vengeful and while I don't condone it, I do understand it.

She is not the victim here. She may be a victim in a different story to be told, but here DG is clearly the victim and she is clearly the main offender! Kind of pretty black and white.

If she is truly remorseful, she should be working on helping DG to get better as well as on herself. The marriage is over no matter what DG or anyone else says. She must accept that. Maybe DG will start a new marriage with her, but having been through what she put him through, IMO, he would be crazy to do so. The damage has already been done to the kids, to DG, to the marriage and to Wishes herself. So why reconcile. The love is gone on both sides. There is no need to protect the kids now. So why? Both of them should just move on.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

manfromlamancha said:


> I agree with Sparrow! What she did with the POSOM while her husband came to see her at the restaurant and thereafter is unforgivable no matter what her background! It was vile and disrespectful and she is trying to say that she is broken and thats why she did it ? Whatever DG had done before, it did not merit that behaviour. That was all her. DG may be trying to give her a dose of her own medicine now or may be he is undecided as to what he wants to do. Telling her about it sounds vengeful and while I don't condone it, I do understand it.
> 
> She is not the victim here. She may be a victim in a different story to be told, but here DG is clearly the victim and she is clearly the main offender! Kind of pretty black and white.
> 
> If she is truly remorseful, she should be working on helping DG to get better as well as on herself. The marriage is over no matter what DG or anyone else says. She must accept that. Maybe DG will start a new marriage with her, but having been through what she put him through, IMO, he would be crazy to do so. The damage has already been done to the kids, to DG, to the marriage and to Wishes herself. So why reconcile. The love is gone on both sides. There is no need to protect the kids now. So why? Both of them should just move on.


She owns her behavior.

But she too was seriously victimized. 

Her own affair behavior does not invalidate what was done to her.

Nor does she justify her behavior by it.


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## manfromlamancha

As I said --- that's a different story to be told. Nothing to do with this one really - is it ? Unless she is justifying what she did. Her thread title is - not a good wife. I agree. And am prepared to offer opinions on what it takes perhaps, to be a good wife.


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## Blossom Leigh

manfromlamancha said:


> As I said --- that's a different story to be told. Nothing to do with this one really - is it ? Unless she is justifying what she did. Her thread title is - not a good wife. I agree. And am prepared to offer opinions on what it takes perhaps, to be a good wife.


I actually disagree with her title. I think she was an impeccable wife, despite her heavy fall from grace.

I wish I could share the tragedy that is this entire story because her past trauma and her marital trauma are inexplicably linked. 

But that is her place to share.

Her withholding is not to protect herself. Far from it.

That's why I've been stating that this one is not one you can make assumptions on.


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## straightshooter

Resentment can be a major contributing factor in justifying in someone's mind that what they are doing is OK.

But sorry, the most vocal thing expressed was DG taking away her texting relationship with another man that she was keeping secret and the reason matters not.

So if that was the trigger that caused it she traded her husband for her texting buddy 

At this point with these dueling threads on different forums you need a scorecard to keep track of it . 

I don't see this working out so great. He seems to be blaming himself like a newly betrayed . 

Good luck .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

Blossom Leigh said:


> The full extent of issues has not been revealed here sparrow. By her graciousness to me, I am privy to information no one on this thread or the SI thread knows. Therefore trust me when I say... Those comments are particularly cruel and she in no way excuses her own behavior. But her behavior in no way gives him license to abuse her over and above the natural consequence of divorce. She has endured enough trauma over her life time. And I am very upset at her husband for choosing to be that calloused. * He was ruptured bad, but she was ruptured first* and I would advise him to remember that and refrain from continuing to be so cruel.



At the risk of appearing callous what is the significance of that?:scratchhead:

He did not "rupture" her, those problems occurred well before they met, so who was ruptured first is not germane to these issues.

She "ruptured" not only her husband but also, callously and deliberately, her own children and the OMW, too, for that matter.

So who's on first doesn't play, in my opinion.

I hope that DG can heal without using OMW and refrain from being as callous and as cruel as Wishes was to him and their daughters.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

I hope that Wishes and DG can sort their differences out (even if solely to the extent of becoming good co-parents) if only for the sakes of their poor children.


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## Blossom Leigh

MattMatt said:


> At the risk of appearing callous what is the significance of that?:scratchhead:
> 
> *He did not "rupture" her*, those problems occurred well before they met, so who was ruptured first is not germane to these issues.
> 
> She "ruptured" not only her husband but also, callously and deliberately, her own children and the OMW, too, for that matter.
> 
> So who's on first doesn't play, in my opinion.
> 
> I hope that DG can heal without using OMW and refrain from being as callous and as cruel as Wishes was to him and their daughters.
> 
> "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."
> 
> I hope that Wishes and DG can sort their differences out (even if solely to the extent of becoming good co-parents) if only for the sakes of their poor children.


That is not wholly accurate.

That is why it matters that he considers refraining from cruelty going forward.


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## MattMatt

Blosdsom Leigh said:


> That is not wholly accurate.
> 
> That is why it matters.


Could you please explain what is not wholly accurate in what I wrote?

I am genuinely interested in learning more about this situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh

MattMatt said:


> Could you please explain what is not wholly accurate in what I wrote?
> 
> I am genuinely interested in learning more about this situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not at liberty to disclose those details.


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## MattMatt

Blossom Leigh said:


> I am not at liberty to disclose those details.


Then it would perhaps be helpful if you could refrain from aluding to "secret information that only you possess" as this runs the risk of making fools out of other members of TAM -like myself- who do not possess that secret information.

Because it means that we are unable to make valid comments or offer useful advice because we do not have the full picture of what happened or Is happening.

Maybe those of us without this secret information should avoid this thread?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adelais

@MattMatt, you put my own feelings into words. Both threads elude to issues that neither one will articulate, yet they are posting on forums. Without giving all the information, it feels like they are playing games, or lying. It is probably neither. It is that they are in an extremely dysfunctional and abusive relationship (the abuse going both ways, depending on the day.)

Wishes, I wish you and DG the very best.


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## Blossom Leigh

MattMatt said:


> Then it would perhaps be helpful if you could refrain from aluding to "secret information that only you possess" as this runs the risk of making fools out of other members of TAM -like myself- eho do not possess that secret information.
> 
> Because it means that we are unable to make valid comments or offer useful advice because we do not have the full picture of what happened or Is happening.
> 
> Maybe those of us without this secret information should avoid this thread?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is not intended to make fools of anyone.

I commented on what I perceived as cruel to Wishes earlier today and was questioned later.

I tried to provide as much clarity as possible on my position without stepping over a boundary with Wishes personal information.

No ill intent meant towards anyone.


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## Blossom Leigh

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> @MattMatt, you put my own feelings into words. Both threads elude to issues that neither one will articulate, yet they are posting on forums. Without giving all the information, it feels like they are playing games, or lying. *It is probably neither*. It is that they are in an extremely dysfunctional and abusive relationship (the abuse going both ways, depending on the day.)
> 
> Wishes, I wish you and DG the very best.


Correct.

They may not be able to fully disclose this one yall.

I'm just trying to ask everyone to be patient and refrain from assumptions.


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## sparrow555

Blossom Leigh said:


> The full extent of issues has not been revealed here sparrow. By her graciousness to me, I am privy to information no one on this thread or the SI thread knows. Therefore trust me when I say... Those comments are particularly cruel and she in no way excuses her own behavior. But her behavior in no way gives him license to abuse her over and above the natural consequence of divorce. She has endured enough trauma over her life time. And I am very upset at her husband for choosing to be that calloused. He was ruptured bad, but she was ruptured first and I would advise him to remember that and refrain from continuing to be so cruel.



By her graciousness to you ? How do you know that it isn't just one more point of manipulation ? CSA should never be used as a trump card to win victim Olympics. 

BL, look at my posts at the start of the thread. There was enough empathy for a woman looking for help. Then she started instigating all the drama either through frivolous replies or by attacking people. The benefit of doubt I gave her has long been exhausted.

Isn't it playing posters against one another if she is selectively revealing info to some and arguing with others. What is the point of this thread then ?

Maybe she can create a private group and only invite people she feels comfortable with. That would be better than what that is currently going on in this thread.

I


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## Blossom Leigh

sparrow555 said:


> By her graciousness to you ? How do you know that it isn't just one more point of manipulation ? CSA should never be used as a trump card to win victim Olympics.
> 
> BL, look at my posts at the start of the thread. There was enough empathy for a woman looking for help. Then she started instigating all the drama either through frivolous replies or by attacking people. The benefit of doubt I gave her has long been exhausted.
> 
> Isn't it playing posters against one another if she is selectively revealing info to some and arguing with others. What is the point of this thread then ?
> 
> Maybe she can create a private group and only invite people she feels comfortable with. That would be better than what that is currently going on in this thread.
> 
> I



If I'm wrong, it will be on me.

But I feel strongly that

Her intent is not about anyone here.

There are layers of reasons this thread has followed the path it has.

But none of them are centered on playing any of us against each other.

We can be mindful that her choice of when to reveal information and to whom are hers and hers alone. And though its understandable that assigning malintent is an easy go to, I wouldn't.

and @straightshooter her being ruptured first was not the cell phone incident.

Yes, graciousness meaning, the level of sensitivity surrounding her personal info in revealing these things to *anyone.* Her revealing to me was only due to the level of safety she felt with me. Its nothing special about me yall. She and I share a very similar past. I picked up on it mid thread and she realized that I could see it so felt confident to lean on me. I'm very glad she did. She is quite impressive and her story has resonated deeply with me.

Maybe time will bear her story here. If not, I hope to always be part of her journey to heal.


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## Blossom Leigh

Two other things I want to add..

She regrets deeply not choosing a different path than the one she chose. She'll tell you that, and has.


And I wanted to add a note to her exH DoneGone who I know is following here. I have been keeping up with your threads on SI and I am very glad to see your latests posts. It is the right and stand up thing to do. You are not owning her affair part of this and I'm sure she wouldn't want you to. Thats good. For you to stand up and say "I really fvcked up" because you did and realize it now, took guts. Thats a big thumbs up from me.


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## thequietman

Not a good wife,

You need to give your x-husband, children, and family members time to heal. Sadly, there's no time limit on healing for this type of betray. Not only you had an affair, you lied and used guilt and blame on your husband to cover your affair.

If you really loved your x-husband, you will fight for him instead of posting about it. To get the approval of others to fight or to move on.

Keep the communication open, let him, kids, and the family members know how you're doing in therapy. Let your x-husband know, that you still love him, and you are doing what it takes to get him back. Be a good friend, instead of trying to pickup in your relationship where you left off before you got caught. To help keep the communication open, ask if he's welling to have lunch or dinner with you at least once a week. Like on a Saturday or a Sunday. At your place, or his choice of a place. 

If your x-husband does take you back, your marriage may not be like before. Let your second marriage blossom on its own. And last bit of advice, don't screw up again. When you married, you telling the, All Mighty, you love your husband and you put off all other men "other relationship". Your husband might be forgiven the first time, he won't be so forgiven the second time.


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## eric1

Wishes -

Again, you need to slow it down for everyone's sake. It's clear that there are still some white hot emotions at play. Nothing of this nature can be fixed with emotions driving the car.

How to adjust emotions to the passenger seat for now is a different story. I strongly encourage professional help for both of you guys. Neither are in the right place now and trying to fix things could rupture them further, or more intrinsically than they are.

TLDR: Don't rush


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## MattMatt

I have a horrible feeling that we we are being played to a certain extent. 

Some of us are given super secret information so that not all of us know the full story.

Which puts the people with that super secret information in a difficult position.

If they see someone making a post from a position of apparent ignorance do they break a trust and reveal what they know? Sort of try to help that other member out by pointing out that they have information that would change the opinion of the other member if they had it?

Or just say nothing?

But let's play a little thought experiment here.

The daughters of Wishes and DG knew that something was wrong.

Instead of confessing to them Wishes gave them some super secret information that made the girls realise that it was all their father's fault and thst she was not a cheater.

In that instance that super secret information was actually a work of fiction that badly damaged her own daughters and their relationship with not only their father but with Wishes, too.

Am I accusing Wishes of lying?

Certainly not! Though I think she is is like a singer who uses Autotune to make their voice sound entirely different.

It's all about tone, timbre, speed and the like. 

It is amazing what you can do with the truth without needing to disemble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha

Blossom Leigh said:


> I actually disagree with her title. I think she was an impeccable wife, despite her heavy fall from grace.
> 
> I wish I could share the tragedy that is this entire story because her past trauma and her marital trauma are inexplicably linked.
> 
> But that is her place to share.
> 
> Her withholding is not to protect herself. Far from it.
> 
> That's why I've been stating that this one is not one you can make assumptions on.


So are you saying that she is an impeccable wife and her past has some bearing on why she did the vile things she did as a married woman to her husband (by the way this is justification for her cheating) ? In your opinion, is she justified or not ?

DG told us what she did in SI and she has not refuted it - she accepted that is what she did and could not explain how she could do this to a man that loved her and was a good husband (her words). Now suddenly a bad past or upbringing or trauma has come into it and she has gone to being an impeccable wife ? 

You don't need to share the details but you need to be clear about whether you think (and it would seem, she thinks) that her actions were justified or had some reason other than being able to scratch her itch or not ?

And saying that she was an impeccable wife might just about be the biggest insult to all those hard working, loyal wives out there who really have put up with all kinds of sh!t from family and husbands but have stayed in tact morally.


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## manfromlamancha

If she feels that DG is "abusing" her why doesn't she just move on with her life ? Why does she still keep coming back ? Because she loves him ? Give me a break ….


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## Blossom Leigh

Neither, I nor DG nor her will tell you she was justified. 

Impeccable because she obeyed him for decades, she was stellar, too stellar, and then obeyed him through something that none of you are going to be able to piece together without full disclosure. (It is not centered around the man in CA.) 

Neither of them anticipated the full effect her obedience would have on her. She regrets obedience during that time frame as well as her choices made following that devastation. She paid a very high price during that obedience. It caused severe new internal damage that blew apart their marriage before the affair of which she deeply regrets adding that act to what had just happened to her. Yet, the affair does not negate the severity of what happened to her. 



So my word impeccable is not designed to insult those who are trauma survivors who did not choose self destructive paths. It is to describe the level of obedience she chose to her H when she shouldn't have and her track record prior to that.

And no, her track record doesn't erase the affair.


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## Blossom Leigh

To clarify... My comments about stopping current cruel behavior are rooted in knowing she paid a high price prior to the affair, then the natural high price of divorce because of the affair.... It is enough, further cruelty needs to stop.


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## azteca1986

Blossom Leigh said:


> Neither, I nor DG nor her will tell you she was justified.
> 
> Impeccable because she obeyed him for decades, she was stellar, too stellar, and then obeyed him through something that none of you are going to be able to piece together without full disclosure. (It is not centered around the man in CA.)
> 
> Neither of them anticipated the full effect her obedience would have on her. She regrets obedience during that time frame as well as her choices made following that devastation. She paid a very high price during that obedience. It caused severe new internal damage that blew apart their marriage before the affair...


So why is it a subject for this forum? 

Withholding information, obfuscation & manipulation - all the traits that led Wishes to CWI in the first place. Anything prior to the affair can be discussed in any of the forums on TAM. But the Super Secret Info is here... creating an inextricable link to the affair. I suspect the only reason this thread exists is so that it can be _seen_. 

I hate being manipulated.


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## Blossom Leigh

azteca1986 said:


> So why is it a subject for this forum?
> 
> Withholding information, obfuscation & manipulation - all the traits that led Wishes to CWI in the first place. Anything prior to the affair can be discussed in any of the forums on TAM. But the Super Secret Info is here... creating an inextricable link to the affair. I suspect the only reason this thread exists is so that it can be _seen_.
> 
> I hate being manipulated.



Please remember this thread became public knowledge. So to ascribe manipulation to that is unwise. Her annonymity was compromised early on and was one of the layers causing her to shift her transparency.

So, I've said all I need to say on this.

She is not the monster being painted here.

And I for one am growing tired of callousedness towards me in my attempts to keep this story as accurate as possible given my limitations so she can get the help she was looking for when she came here. 

So with that, if she chooses to share further or not is her choice. I will not ascribe malintent to either choice.


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## Adelais

Blossom Leigh said:


> Two other things I want to add..
> 
> She regrets deeply not choosing a different path than the one she chose. She'll tell you that, and has.
> 
> 
> And I wanted to add a note to her exH DoneGone who I know is following here. I have been keeping up with your threads on SI and I am very glad to see your latests posts. It is the right and stand up thing to do. You are not owning her affair part of this and I'm sure she wouldn't want you to. Thats good. For you to stand up and say "I really fvcked up" because you did and realize it now, took guts. Thats a big thumbs up from me.


Do you see what you are doing here? You are speaking for her about very simple things which she could say herself. Is she a frightened child? Are you her parent? She is definitely not a child, no matter what happened to her prior to the marriage. She chose a very adult path, and did a very adult thing: have an EA, (or at least pretend she was having one to make her husband jealous) and then have a full on 9 month PA.

You are being played, Blossom. Perhaps some of the secret information she shared with you is true, but what she is doing with it is manipulation.

I dislike adultery, and feel for BSes. I dislike CSA, and feel for the victims. However, something I hate more is manipulative people, who use life's blows as excuses for their own bad choices.

I have a bad feeling in my gut regarding Wishes and DG. They came to marriage forums, pretending they were having marital issues stemming from adultery, all the while knowing that they were actively destroying their marriage in other, unspeakable ways, which are so horrible they can't even speak about it, long before the adultery.

If he forced her to have an open marriage, which most of us don't approve of, there is no need to hide it, as many spouses have been here complaining that their spouse wanted that, and they don't, even after they tried it.

If he raped her in his anger, they both need serious therapy, and they shouldn't get back together....ever.

If they murdered Wishes' and her AP's baby and buried it in the back yard, then Blossom, you need to call the authorities, and stop this charade.

Honestly, Wishes and DG's secrecy has me, and I'm sure others, wondering what horrible thing they have done. (Not what DG did to her, but what *they* have done.)

This thread feels very dysfunctional, and unhealthy. Both this one and DG's are not being used by the OP's for their growth, but to lead the members along, doling out crumbs to keep members coming back. They are not sharing any of the deep issues, events, or learning anything from the posters. In fact they are ignoring the contributes, or becoming angry when they are confronted.

This is not the place for them to deal with their issues. They obviously need to be in the offices of qualified psychotherapists, insane asylums, or in jail.


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## bandit.45

This thread is a troll party. 

DG and Wishes are the same person folks. S/he is making everyone fight, argue, and run around in a tizzy and getting her/his jollies watching it. 

Ban me if you like, but I don't like to stand aside and see good people being manipulated this way.


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## alte Dame

I hope that the mods close this thread.


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## Wishes

Listen guys, you get what you want. I am leaving this thread. I do not fault you for wanting more information but I have never thought anything that led up to my affair had any business being repeated on this forum. You are right. I came here asking a question and you answered it and I should have moved on. I guess I was looking for something else and I do not know what. 

I have been in therapy several years and part of my personal therapy was reading in this forum. I never believed I would be received the way I have been or I would not have come here period. In hindsight, I do not blame most of you. I am not antagonistic against your honest opinions and thoughts. Actually they have been helpful. 

But, I think you need me to leave, and I do not believe I should wait any longer for that defining moment. I have made many friends that I hope to stay in contact with and they alone have made this entire experience worthwhile.


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## Billdan

I find it very difficult to believe we are not seeing serious dysfunction between people who have very real issues with the truth. In terms of an internet forum this is mostly irrelevant, what people read here isn't the point: the point is to try and help the people who come here. It must be said that most of us would have similar issues if we took to posting intimate details about our lives. 

Neither DG nor Wishes can really be helped unless they learn to be honest: and I do not think either realizes how obvious it is that their dishonesty (whether intentional or not) prevents them from even beginning to behave in a healthier matter. After a career as a Prosecutor, these inconsistencies scream to me from the respective threads and grow with each passing post. Wishes ignores when these are noted - for the excellent reason that they have nothing to do with why she is posing here. Again, the point is not blast an anonymous poster seeking help with a difficult situation, but rather to try and draw attention to each their respective inability to confront their situation clearly. 

It should be noted that this this does not make Wishes and DG horrible or even bad people. It just makes them human.

The inconsistencies in what Wishes have posted in this thread, and between what DG has posted in his and Wishes has posted here are enormous. One cannot put what she has written here side by side and not see that her story has changed in significant ways. As best as I can piece together through the various and inconsistent accounts:

1. DG has had what Wishes believes to be a controlling personality. There appears in this thread to be some of a basis in religion for this, but that is speculation.
2. DG has some history of significant anger issues.
3. Wishes response to this has been to manipulate by misdirection. This is hardly unique - this was how mother dealt with my father for years. Passive-Aggressive behavior screams from both threads.
4. This passive-aggressive behavior was extremely successful for most of the marriage in getting Wishes what she wanted. 
5. As some point something happened that led Wishes to seek advice from outside of her marriage. If I read between the lines, this was in some ways a result of their respective communication styles. I suspect neither was very good at dealing with disagreement. Their fear of confrontation led both to behave in what in some ways was dishonest behavior. While this was manageable for most of their marriage (this problem is probably present in most marriages) it became intolerable.
6. Wishes inability to get DG to listen led her to start some relationship with a man outside of the marriage. Again - I suspect that her inability to articulate what was bothering her is at play here, as is DG's difficulty in really hearing what his wife was saying (I suspect he never really was attuned to what his wife was hinting at). It is hard not to read these threads, by the way, and not conclude that she is smarter than he is.
7. At this point, Wishes crosses a very big line - and one which DG is now minimizing - and he is wrong to do so. Taking a communication with another man underground is never appropriate, Period. One suspects, though she will deny it, that Wishes became somewhat intoxicated with the connection she had with the OM, even if that relationship was always platonic. In any event seeking advice about a marriage from someone who works for your husband is extremely inappropriate. Basically it says you do not know how to get your husband to hear you.
8. The affair starts, is uncovered. Wishes then engages in desperate, and profoundly disrespectful acts in a desperate attempt to save the marriage (see eg, the involvement of her children, the IC sessions described by DG).
9. Wishes starts posting here.

It is patently obvious that DG wants Wishes back, and Wishes wants DG back. In reading the Si thread, I think DG was really trying to find someone who would convince to do something other than what he thought was required (though this was probably subconsious). Wishes behavior prevented that to some extent. She started this thread by saying she had given up hope, but was willing to wait for him. There was enough dysfunction between the two of them, and enough has happened (ie the affair) to make each cautious, and so we get this dance played out.

This is the way people reconcile. 

There is no shame in any of it: there is in fact bravery. 

I could write a similar story that would make my own reconciliation after my wife's affair look no better. During that process both my wife and I were terrified at telling the other we were all-in, we had issues and problems that needed addressing before that could happen. My hope is that the two of them can look each other in the eye, talk openly to EACH OTHER, and begin their long path back to each other. One suspects a marriage purged of the difficulty in saying difficult things to each other would be quite rewarding.


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## Blossom Leigh

Wishes said:


> Listen guys, you get what you want. I am leaving this thread. I do not fault you for wanting more information but I have never thought anything that led up to my affair had any business being repeated on this forum. You are right. I came here asking a question and you answered it and I should have moved on. I guess I was looking for something else and I do not know what.
> 
> I have been in therapy several years and part of my personal therapy was reading in this forum. I never believed I would be received the way I have been or I would not have come here period. In hindsight, I do not blame most of you. I am not antagonistic against your honest opinions and thoughts. Actually they have been helpful.
> 
> But, I think you need me to leave, and I do not believe I should wait any longer for that defining moment. I have made many friends that I hope to stay in contact with and they alone have made this entire experience worthwhile.


I was going to advise you to leave TAM. You will not be served well here. My door is always open to you. You have made a big impact on me. 

And to those who think she cant speak for herself... She is more than capable and just like her intent has been misjudged. So was mine. 

This thread was a huge disappointment.


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## ConanHub

@Wishes

At some point information does need to come out for total healing.

I think you are very brave but still not seeing clearly through your history of being treated far less than stellar.

I get it. I shudder to share things that happened with me sometimes.

It can be pretty frustrating trying to share about my perspective while trying to protect my loved ones and myself and my identity isn't known here. My children don't read and neither do my other family members.

I don't have to imagine how you feel. I know because I've been there.

My story didn't play out like yours but you are so much sweeter and nicer than me.

If I shared everything about myself I am afraid of the reactions here.

If you can endure, please hang around if you receive any help here. You can block posters that aren't helping and feel free to P.M. me if you want.

Please be well and continue on your road to health.

I think you are probably a beautiful person.
@Blossom Leigh is my friend.

Ask her for a reference if you like. I will be another shoulder for you if you want.

Be blessed. Conan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

manfromlamancha said:


> If she feels that DG is "abusing" her why doesn't she just move on with her life ? Why does she still keep coming back ? Because she loves him ? Give me a break ….


Since barriers have been breached, go to SI and ask DG what the hell went down.

He has stated that he could give the aholes here on TAM ahole lessons and I suggest you believe him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

My wife has an expression that she uses with some people.

She believes that whatever they say is ended with a secret: "But not really."

As in "We apologise for the accident that took place on our premises. (But not really!)"

In the case of Wishes it seems to be: "I accept full responsibility for cheating on my husband, for talking s**t about my husband with my lover and for the deep psychological harm that I did to my daughters when I lied to them about the situation and coached them to start hating their father. (But not really!)"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

MattMatt said:


> My wife has an expression that she uses with some people.
> 
> She believes that whatever they say is ended with a secret: "But not really."
> 
> As in "We apologise for the accident that took place on our premises. (But not really!)"
> 
> In the case of Wishes it seems to be: "I accept full responsibility for cheating on my husband, for talking s**t about my husband with my lover and for the deep psychological harm that I did to my daughters when I lied to them about the situation and coached them to start hating their father. (But not really!)"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have seen that before as well but don't believe that is what is happening here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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