# Thought we were gonna have kids, wife doesn't want any...I'm not sure.



## onceler1

NOTE: I'm well aware my problems are basically tiny compared to a lot of things aired on this forum. I do not expect replies. Anyone who cares to though, certainly appreciated. Everybody has anxiety about life, even those who aren't doing that badly...

My wife's 37, I'm 34. Early in our relationship I asked her if she wanted kids and she said yes. I kinda assumed we'd eventually have kids. We haven't tried yet. Occasionally my extended family tries to guilt trip me into having kids, but the funny part is I'm the man, I can't have them, haha. And she doesn't want them. Her extended family is nowhere near as supportive of her as mine is of me, and are actually an emotional drain on her. She had a rough time growing up (her dad committed suicide), I had a good childhood. I was an only child though, and always happiest by myself without many other people around.

I think about my relationship with my parents, and, while I had a good relationship with my dad, I don't have a whole ton of memories of JUST being with my dad when I was little. Like, he was there, but not like INTERACTING with me like with sports or what not, if that makes sense. He was very much into his work. Not to the point of ignoring me or anything, just, it was a big deal to him.

I'm sort of the same way? Only not. He's super successful, I'm just a working stiff. I have hobbies which make me really happy, which could have something to do with not having kids yet. I'm to a point now where if kids happened, I wouldn't feel like they were holding me back. Yet I don't really really want them the way you hear about women wanting them.

I sometimes get fearful of the future of not having kids, like I'll regret it---this is what I keep hearing. And so I bring it up with my wife sometimes. She hasn't COMPLETELY shut the door but...it's really beginning to seem like it's not gonna happen. She's also worried about health problems, her mom had some messed up problem with her lady parts that had to get fixed later in life due to having kids and she's afraid of that happening, partly because she's really small/petite framed. I don't blame her really.

We sometimes talk about adoption. Maybe that's what we'll do? I dunno. I think everything's fine because like I said, as a man my thoughts have never been occupied with being a dad someday. I just assumed it would happen. And then there's the guilt. But pressuring my wife or leaving her because of others guilt tripping me doesn't seem like a good plan.

Especially because everything else in our marriage is great. We're both happy and very healthy. This forum actually helped me improve some things with our marriage, back in 2015, I just kinda switched off the "condescending man" switch in my brain and let her be who she is. So things are good.

Another sad thing is we're really well off financially. Part of me feels like its almost immoral not to have kids because of that, like we could provide so well for one. But again, just doing it out of guilt doesn't seem like a good plan...

Just felt like getting this off my chest, not sure if anybody cares to read it or not, lol. Thanks.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Your wife is getting to the age where the doctors say, "If you're going to have kids, you need to start now". 

I can tell you that I never thought I wanted kids and I married my h stating that. He was on the same page. At about the age your wife is, I started to regret it. It's too late for me. 

It's possible that she may still change her mind (just like I did) but like I said even if she wants kids down the road, biologically it gets more risky & difficult. That door is gently closing each month. 

Not sure that I really have any advice for you though.


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## Yeswecan

> My wife's 37, I'm 34. Early in our relationship I asked her if she wanted kids and she said yes. I kinda assumed we'd eventually have kids.


You have been baited and switched.


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## onceler1

Yeswecan said:


> You have been baited and switched.


Heh, I certainly don't perceive it that way. We're both weird antisocial isolated people who are happiest not seeing other people very often. I think this has something to do with us not wanting kids possibly. Like, dating was never easy for me before I found my wife. The idea of leaving her because of kids horrifies me. I have no network. No friends, no nothing (well, very few). I'd be starting completely from scratch. Admittedly as a 34 year old man it'd be easier than if I was a woman, but...we have so many other great things.

I forgot to mention she is not employed, which further makes it odd she doesn't want kids. She could be a stay at home mom. Instead she keeps the house clean, takes care of me and our cats,AND, helps me "give birth" to video games that I program by doing all the art for them. This means a lot to me, like maybe almost as much as kids might to some folks? So...I'd be losing a TON if I left her, and like I said, it'd JUST be because people are guilt tripping me.

It'd be another thing entirely if I'd spent years YEARNING to be a dad. And the truth is I just haven't. I spent years yearning to make video games and now I am. Haha. Oh well...


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## Yeswecan

So what is your question?


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## onceler1

Yeswecan said:


> So what is your question?


I guess I'm still trying to sort out how much *I* want them so I can determine whether to muster the courage to leave. People keep scaring me like I'm going to regret it and hate myself forever if I don't have them. And...I thought about it a while and the truth is, like I said above...I spent years yearning to make games. I never "yearned" for kids. I just thought I'd probably make a good dad IF my wife wanted them, and assumed she would.

I know life will always have anxiety no matter what. like, if we did have kids, it's not like life wouldn't have peril and anxiety in it. In fact it'd probably have more potential for that. I realize the rewards could be pretty big too though (satisfaction, happiness etc). so..who knows.

My guess right now is we'll wind up adopting...she seems to find that idea appealing. So it'll probably all turn out fine, I guess I'll just never know how it feels to have actually fathered a kid. That idea does scare me though, we have severe autism on both sides.

Maybe we're just both from super fragile genetic lineages and maybe shouldn't have any lol. Oh well...


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## AtMyEnd

Things change. My wife always talked about having a big family since she was an only child, after our son was born that topic died out for a while. Eventually when it started to come up again was when I started to see issues in our relationship so I just kind of blew it off.


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## Yeswecan

onceler1 said:


> I guess I'm still trying to sort out how much *I* want them so I can determine whether to muster the courage to leave. People keep scaring me like I'm going to regret it and hate myself forever if I don't have them. And...I thought about it a while and the truth is, like I said above...I spent years yearning to make games. I never "yearned" for kids. I just thought I'd probably make a good dad IF my wife wanted them, and assumed she would.
> 
> I know life will always have anxiety no matter what. like, if we did have kids, it's not like life wouldn't have peril and anxiety in it. In fact it'd probably have more potential for that. I realize the rewards could be pretty big too though (satisfaction, happiness etc). so..who knows.
> 
> My guess right now is we'll wind up adopting...she seems to find that idea appealing. So it'll probably all turn out fine, I guess I'll just never know how it feels to have actually fathered a kid. That idea does scare me though, we have severe autism on both sides.
> 
> Maybe we're just both from super fragile genetic lineages and maybe shouldn't have any lol. Oh well...


Games and kids are two totally different things. A kids is something you cannot shut off, reboot or do over. 

You are correct, children bring a host of things. Good times as well as concerns. It is a decision not to be taken lightly. I have 2 daughters. I worry all the time. It is apart of parenting. 

Now...adopting...your W finds that appealing. That is telling. Why is she ok with adopting but not a child of yours/hers?


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## MrsAldi

I'm 30 years old and currently pregnant, I must be honest and say how tough the pregnancy has been on my body. I cannot imagine doing this again at a later age. 

Be careful with extended family trying to guilt you into having kids, people act like it is easy and don't dare tell you the hardship and sacrifice ahead of you both. 

Don't feel obligated to have kids just because everyone else excepts it, sit down together and go through the pros and cons. 

For example...

Are you ready to go through the tough process of going through the trying part for 2 years and the IVF treatments? 

That's just the beginning, go to a book store and pick up a parenting/baby book, it's like an encyclopaedia! 

I'm not trying to put you off, but just know that it's not an easy thing and consider all your options beforehand. Get all the information you can and make the decision that feels best for both of you. 




Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## onceler1

I know she's really really afraid of childbirth. As mentioned above her mother suffered some kind of injury that she had to get fixed later in life due to having kids. And also had some injury right after having kids, prob due to also being small. When I ask her she always says she's afraid of giving birth and thinks she would not be a good mother. I know she would be , though, she's very nurturing, especially with the cats. Haha. She also thinks newborns are ugly. She likes the idea of raising a kid that is already like 8, when they are not so dependent. I guess it could be selfishness, but, I can't blame her for any of these things. I only have to do the fun part. Haha

And yeah I'm fairly aware of the amount of sacrifice that would be required. Some of the biggest things I wanted to accomplish in life, I've accomplished already. They're just hobbies, but they're what I wanted to do. So I'm at a point where I wouldn't consider myself "non-self-actualized" should I have kids...


...On a side note, both of us always feel like all our peers are infinitely older than us. It's odd. We're 34 and 37 and frequently get mistaken for 20 just from our appearances (we're small and baby faced, both of us lol). It bothers me sometimes but at other times, I just accept that we are who we are...and life IS good otherwise...


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## SunCMars

MrsAldi said:


> I'm 30 years old and* currently pregnant*,


About stinkin' time!!:grin2:


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## Red Sonja

Don’t have kids unless both of you truly desire to be a parent, otherwise it’s not fair to the child. I’ve seen too many children of parents who had them because “thought they should” or “everyone else is doing it” and then neglect their kids or worse resent them.

Your parents and her parents have no say in the decision of future children … you need to shut those conversations down.


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## uhtred

You both need to be on the same page wrt having kids. What was said in the past doesn't matter - you need to agree one way or the other now, or separate. This is too important a decision, and there is no compromise.

My wife and I never had kids, and most definitely do not regret it (we are in our late 50s). We do not feel that we've missed something important in our lives.

Others of course will feel differently.


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## EleGirl

Yeswecan said:


> Games and kids are two totally different things. A kids is something you cannot shut off, reboot or do over.
> 
> You are correct, children bring a host of things. Good times as well as concerns. It is a decision not to be taken lightly. I have 2 daughters. I worry all the time. It is apart of parenting.
> 
> *Now...adopting...your W finds that appealing. That is telling. Why is she ok with adopting but not a child of yours/hers*?


Probably because pregnancy and child birth concern her. Op stated that her mother had/has health issues related to child birth and his wife is concerned that she will too.


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## EleGirl

onceler1 said:


> I guess I'm still trying to sort out how much *I* want them so I can determine whether to muster the courage to leave. People keep scaring me like I'm going to regret it and hate myself forever if I don't have them. And...I thought about it a while and the truth is, like I said above...I spent years yearning to make games. I never "yearned" for kids. I just thought I'd probably make a good dad IF my wife wanted them, and assumed she would.
> 
> I know life will always have anxiety no matter what. like, if we did have kids, it's not like life wouldn't have peril and anxiety in it. In fact it'd probably have more potential for that. I realize the rewards could be pretty big too though (satisfaction, happiness etc). so..who knows.
> 
> *My guess right now is we'll wind up adopting*...she seems to find that idea appealing. So it'll probably all turn out fine, I guess I'll just never know how it feels to have actually fathered a kid. That idea does scare me though, we have severe autism on both sides.
> 
> Maybe we're just both from super fragile genetic lineages and maybe shouldn't have any lol. Oh well...


Most adoption agencies will not go along with an adoption of an infant of someone who is 40 years or older. They do not want the age between the baby and the child to be more than 40 years. There is good reason for this. There are about 36 couples willing to adopt a child for every infant available for adoption. So the agencies can select younger couples. After age 40, typically people have less energy and patience to deal with a young child.


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## Yeswecan

EleGirl said:


> Probably because pregnancy and child birth concern her. Op stated that her mother had/has health issues related to child birth and his wife is concerned that she will too.


Genetically predisposed to problems during pregnancy?


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## onceler1

*Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

This one really eats at me. The reason it eats at me is I feel like I'm failing others because I don't have kids (I'm a man, 34, wife 37, doesn't want kids). It's really hard to talk to my wife about this. She's afraid she'll be a bad mom, afraid she'll have physical problems her mom had from childbirth so she's afraid of it.

I know this is a big one, and you should work this out BEFORE you get married.

Well, I thought I did. We discussed it early on and we both said we wanted them.

Thing is though, I always just sort of ASSUMED it would happen and that my wife would eventually want them and that I wouldn't have to push the issue. Now I'm in this weird situation where I, the man, worry about this MORE than my wife does and she doesn't seem to care?

I don't know what to do. The rest of my relationship with my wife isn't perfect but it isn't BAD. It isn't the most amazing relationship ever but knowing the sort of suffering possible out there, man I could really be a lot worse off than this.

Like, I couldn't have possibly HAND PICKED a woman that was more EXACTLY what I wanted than my wife. Except she doesn't seem to want kids.

Is that enough to blow everything up and start over?

I'm really thinking it can't be. It may be a cross I have to bear. It probably WILL be a regret. It probably WILL hit me like a ton of bricks later "I never fathered my own children" and it will be painful.

Is that possibility worth the pain of a divorce?


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## uhtred

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

The simple answer is "yes", it is worth a divorce. Not because either of you is *wrong* but because it is something on which there can be no compromise and which is extremely important to each. Its worth the most friendly, fair divorce you can manage.

Having children is the largest decision you make in your life. It changes everything for the rest of your life. Its a decision that can never be undone, or taken back. There are huge positives (having children in your life), and huge negatives (the enormous time and cost). 

Whether or not she wanted children when you got married, she doesn't want them now, and pressuring someone on this is not OK. Trust my statement from personal experience on this - never bring a child into the world who will discover that one of their parents regrets having them. (I grew up knowing this and it is a TERRIBLE thing to know).

One possible thing to try - which my wife and I did. Take in a shelter care foster child - this is usually for several months, but not permanent. See what life is really like with a full time child in the house before either of you makes an irreversible decision.


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## onceler1

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



uhtred said:


> The simple answer is "yes", it is worth a divorce. Not because either of you is *wrong* but because it is something on which there can be no compromise and which is extremely important to each. Its worth the most friendly, fair divorce you can manage.
> 
> Having children is the largest decision you make in your life. It changes everything for the rest of your life. Its a decision that can never be undone, or taken back. There are huge positives (having children in your life), and huge negatives (the enormous time and cost).
> 
> Whether or not she wanted children when you got married, she doesn't want them now, and pressuring someone on this is not OK. Trust my statement from personal experience on this - never bring a child into the world who will discover that one of their parents regrets having them. (I grew up knowing this and it is a TERRIBLE thing to know).
> 
> One possible thing to try - which my wife and I did. Take in a shelter care foster child - this is usually for several months, but not permanent. See what life is really like with a full time child in the house before either of you makes an irreversible decision.


That's an interesting idea, taking in a foster kid temporarily.

That makes me remember, back in 2010 or so we actually had my wife's sister and her child (she's a single mom) living with us for about half a year because she was able to get away from an abusive situation (thank goodness).

While I have a couple of fond memories of interacting with my wife's nephew (such as building a snowman) the rest of the time I was hiding in my office with headphones on because of all the screaming and noise.

I guess it's possible neither my wife nor I are really cut out for it.

I didn't mention she doesn't work or drive, I would have to do all the driving and continue doing all the breadwinning. Though, maybe that's a fair trade since she'd have to do nearly everything else. I don't know.

It's tough. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of life choices. Though there's a chance it could actually be really great if you do. So I don't know. Being a man I feel like it's different. My sisters and mom act like I'd really regret it. But what I continue pursuing in life is all hobby oriented, nearly all my motivation surrounds my hobbies.

My wife's family is a big drain on her. Especially her mother. Her mother complains to her all the time and is totally unsupportive. And she doesn't have a dad (he committed suicide when she was 6). So I mean I think there are a lot of factors here.

A divorce would be so awful. I'm also the sole person on her mother's mortgage, so that would be a huge mess to clean up. Though thankfully I and my family have money so they could probably save me from that? But yeah, it would be very very very very ugly and hard.

I really think I have to count my blessings here. Maybe kids just aren't in the picture for me.

I forgot to mention my sister had a son with autism, and...my god,...the pain she went through for the first few years (blaming herself, etc.) was just awful. I don't think I am even capable of imagining. And my other sister had a stillborn. So yeah... I really don't know. I WON'T pressure my wife to have them, because I myself could NOT imagine taking the risks involved (health, pain wise)...


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## GuyInColorado

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

If you have a great marriage, great sex life, and enjoy traveling, don't have kids. I love my kids but they require 100% of your focus and attention. Life is never the same. I sometimes envy people without kids.


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## katiecrna

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

It's a deal breaker for me. If I were you, I would sit down with your wife and tell her you love her but you want different thintsS


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## brooklynAnn

As a mum of two...let me tell you...you don't normally hear of the toll having kids take on the marriage, finance ,your body and mental health. The first 5 years were hard, our finances took a hit because our son was sickly and then had learning disabilities....i had to quit my job to stay home. 

Our sex life ...was once every 6 weeks. My son was sick so much I had to sleep with him in his room to keep an eye on him. First 6 months he slept on my chest. As he grew bigger...he had more health problems. 

Thank God at least the girl was good. We were constantly stressed out. My H avoided being at home by working long hours. How our marriage survived? I don't know. All I know is that it made us stronger. 

I now have two beautiful young people. Still costing a lot but I became a better person because of them. My H always said, I would have been rich if not for these people. But he loves his kids, especially his daughter. 

Everything in life is a trade off. You have to decided what you are willing to work for and what you can give up. What will bring you the greatest happiness and allow you to live your life to the fullest.

I wouldn't have traded any of those sloppy wet kisses for anything in the world. My life is full and I get to see two amazing people grow and strive. I can't wait to see what else they do. I am enjoying my middle years and looking forward to spending time with my hubby....


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## Satya

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

If you're really on fire to have kids, then go find a woman also on fire to have them with you. You'll come to resent your wife if you seriously acquiesce when you REALLY do want kids. 

If you can live without kids (and this would require you really thinking about where you want to be in the future), then stay in the marriage, appreciate the good things, and find a way to be content and not resent your wife for her choices.


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## oldshirt

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

If you have a deep, innate yearning to have children, and your wife doesn't, then yes of course that is valid grounds for divorce.

Even the Vatican and the Catholic Church will recognize that as valid grounds for divorce. 

What I would mostly strongly urge you NOT to do however is to pressure or threaten or manipulate your wife into having them.

People who do not want kids make terrible parents and most of them do not " come around" or change their attitude.


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## oldshirt

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



onceler1 said:


> I didn't mention she doesn't work or drive, I would have to do all the driving and continue doing all the breadwinning. Though, maybe that's a fair trade since she'd have to do nearly everything else. I don't know.
> 
> .


Why doesn't she drive or work?

Is she one of these borderline-functional people that always has a lot of problems and basically comes up short or outright fails at everything she does?

If that is the case, then how effective of a mother would she be if she would have to do "everything else"?

A 37 year old failure-to-launch person that isn't developed or functional to the point of maintaining a driver's license or holding down a job at McDonalds or Wal Mart is not the kind of person that would be responsible for the life, health and well being of a baby.


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## GusPolinski

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

If you want children then yes.


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## Adelais

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



onceler1 said:


> I didn't mention she doesn't work or drive, I would have to do all the driving and continue doing all the breadwinning. Though, maybe that's a fair trade since she'd have to do nearly everything else. I don't know.


If your wife can't or won't drive or do any grocery/clothes/etc. shopping, then it is not a fair trade at all.

Staying home as a homemaker is a lot of work, but she also needs to leave the house during business hours (with the children while they are younger, or while they are in school when they are older) to get some things done, like shopping, going to the bank, post office, taking them to doctor's appointments, the dentist, etc.

When they get older, she will need to shuttle them around at times, to school if they miss the bus, home after extracurricular activities, to the movies with their friends, etc.

I spend a lot of time in the car, for my family, while my husband is at work. He couldn't possibly do it all himself, especially when he is out of town working.

Are you thinking you can have a full time job and do all that too?

IMO you should either not have children with your wife, or divorce your wife, and marry someone who will be able to contribute to do more than just the "at home" jobs.

Also: you said you talked about this before you married, and you thought your wife's attitude about having children would change. You married her knowing how she felt. She was honest with you from the start. It is not fair on your part to be upset with her that she hasn't changed her position.

Let her go find a man who loves her the way she is, and has the same position regarding children that she has.


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## uhtred

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

I haven't talked about this much here, but the foster kid test basically saved my life. My wife and I initially didn't want kids but at one point she decided that she did. I suggested the foster child approach. The idea was to both experience having kids at home and do a good deed for a child in need.

We spent 6 months taking care of a 5 year old girl. We learned a lot. To me, the child who I viewed as my own, became the most important thing in the world. My job, my relationship with my wife suffered. The child was important - but to be honest I didn't like what my devotion to her was doing to me. 

My wife discovered that she didn't like kids. That while they were fun at times, that the reality of the time investment was huge. That kids are interested in very different things from adults - that they are well - childish. You take them to the aquarium and the most fascinating thing is the funny lids on the trash cans. 

I'm convinced that if we had had kids, I would now be a miserable single father, saddled with a child that I never wanted but that I was bound to care for for the rest of my life. 

Try it - you may discover that you don't really want kids, or your wife may discover that she loves kids. 










onceler1 said:


> That's an interesting idea, taking in a foster kid temporarily.
> 
> That makes me remember, back in 2010 or so we actually had my wife's sister and her child (she's a single mom) living with us for about half a year because she was able to get away from an abusive situation (thank goodness).
> 
> While I have a couple of fond memories of interacting with my wife's nephew (such as building a snowman) the rest of the time I was hiding in my office with headphones on because of all the screaming and noise.
> 
> I guess it's possible neither my wife nor I are really cut out for it.
> 
> I didn't mention she doesn't work or drive, I would have to do all the driving and continue doing all the breadwinning. Though, maybe that's a fair trade since she'd have to do nearly everything else. I don't know.
> 
> It's tough. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of life choices. Though there's a chance it could actually be really great if you do. So I don't know. Being a man I feel like it's different. My sisters and mom act like I'd really regret it. But what I continue pursuing in life is all hobby oriented, nearly all my motivation surrounds my hobbies.
> 
> My wife's family is a big drain on her. Especially her mother. Her mother complains to her all the time and is totally unsupportive. And she doesn't have a dad (he committed suicide when she was 6). So I mean I think there are a lot of factors here.
> 
> A divorce would be so awful. I'm also the sole person on her mother's mortgage, so that would be a huge mess to clean up. Though thankfully I and my family have money so they could probably save me from that? But yeah, it would be very very very very ugly and hard.
> 
> I really think I have to count my blessings here. Maybe kids just aren't in the picture for me.
> 
> I forgot to mention my sister had a son with autism, and...my god,...the pain she went through for the first few years (blaming herself, etc.) was just awful. I don't think I am even capable of imagining. And my other sister had a stillborn. So yeah... I really don't know. I WON'T pressure my wife to have them, because I myself could NOT imagine taking the risks involved (health, pain wise)...


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## sokillme

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

Time is running out, after the age of 40 women's chances of having a child with down syndrome grow.


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## Primrose

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



onceler1 said:


> While I have a couple of fond memories of interacting with my wife's nephew (such as building a snowman) *the rest of the time I was hiding in my office with headphones on because of all the screaming and noise.*
> 
> I guess it's possible neither my wife nor I are really cut out for it.


The bolded is every parent. Parenting isn't always fun. There are days I wonder what the hell I got myself into. Days where I wonder why I decided to have a second. Then a third. Days where I envy those who are childless.

But the days where I cannot imagine a life without these little rugrats? They far outnumber the bad. 

And it is my opinion that it is MUCH more difficult parenting a child that is not yours. It's why some wonderful mothers do not make good babysitters. Or why they do not like to babysit, rather.


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## onceler1

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*

I was thinking about the foster kid test idea and, I thought to myself, I wouldn't even want to do that *right now*. And I'm the one worrying about this. I think I'm worrying about it because enough people are saying I'll regret not having them. So, I think it'd be accurate to say, I don't have a deep yearning to have children, it's more that other folks keep scaring me into thinking I do or should or what not.

Yeah I've often thought about my wife not driving and that that would be very difficult if we had kids. Nice thing is I do work from home and have a flexible schedule, and that's *probably* going to not change? Hard to say though.

I feel in a weird way both me and my wife are "failures to launch." Even though I have a job and am gainfully employed, I'm not moving up. I'm focused on my hobbies and I actually decided last year that my hobbies ARE more important to me than my job.

I forgot to mention my wife actually helps me with one of these hobbies. This hobby was one of my childhood dreams and she actually helped make it come true and continues to do so.

I can't leave her. Even if not having kids is something I'm going to feel great pain over later, I can't leave. It would ruin me, and it would ruin her. I don't think I'd ever be the same. I don't think I would ever find another woman. Or if I did, she wouldn't be like my wife. She wouldn't be able to reproduce helping me with this amazing hobby of mine. She wouldn't have the exact same tastes in everything (we do).

It's really hard to imagine another woman actually being attracted to me. Finding my wife to begin with was really hard. I had had several relationships before her, but they were utterly disastrous, often ending with a failed sexual encounter. That's really attractive isn't it? Haha. For some reason it didn't fail with my wife, and never has.

I had had a good relationship in highschool...and when I broke up with her, I had a meltdown and actually fainted and was pulled out of school that year (LOL, how pathetic am I?). Since I still have almost no friends, the only support network I have is my aging parents (in their 80's) and my sisters who live far away. I fear I would basically wither away and die if I left my wife. It really would be a bad decision, no matter how painful not having kids will be...

Thanks for being my sounding board all it is helping.


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## arbitrator

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



onceler1 said:


> This one really eats at me. The reason it eats at me is I feel like I'm failing others because I don't have kids (I'm a man, 34, wife 37, doesn't want kids). It's really hard to talk to my wife about this. She's afraid she'll be a bad mom, afraid she'll have physical problems her mom had from childbirth so she's afraid of it.
> 
> I know this is a big one, and you should work this out BEFORE you get married.
> 
> Well, I thought I did. We discussed it early on and we both said we wanted them.
> 
> Thing is though, I always just sort of ASSUMED it would happen and that my wife would eventually want them and that I wouldn't have to push the issue. Now I'm in this weird situation where I, the man, worry about this MORE than my wife does and she doesn't seem to care?
> 
> I don't know what to do. The rest of my relationship with my wife isn't perfect but it isn't BAD. It isn't the most amazing relationship ever but knowing the sort of suffering possible out there, man I could really be a lot worse off than this.
> 
> Like, I couldn't have possibly HAND PICKED a woman that was more EXACTLY what I wanted than my wife. Except she doesn't seem to want kids.
> 
> Is that enough to blow everything up and start over?
> 
> I'm really thinking it can't be. It may be a cross I have to bear. It probably WILL be a regret. It probably WILL hit me like a ton of bricks later "I never fathered my own children" and it will be painful.
> 
> Is that possibility worth the pain of a divorce?


*If the two of you originally agreed upon having kids prior to your marriage, thus making it a reasonable marital expectation, then it certainly can be construed as grounds for divorce arising out of deception, greatly provided that she can continue to physically bear children!

Very few men ever go into marriage not expecting to have children!*


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## onceler1

uhtred said:


> You both need to be on the same page wrt having kids. What was said in the past doesn't matter - you need to agree one way or the other now, or separate. This is too important a decision, and there is no compromise.
> 
> My wife and I never had kids, and most definitely do not regret it (we are in our late 50s). We do not feel that we've missed something important in our lives.
> 
> Others of course will feel differently.


I'm trying to get to the bottom of whether I would feel whether I missed something, or not.

One key thing I've noticed contrasting myself with men I know who are ultra family oriented is:

-Ultra family oriented men typically grew up with several brothers and sisters, around many other extended family and friends via church etc. and just couldn't imagine a life without family.

-I was the youngest of 3 and both my sisters are more than 10 years old than me. I was spoiled and very isolated. Almost no other children or extended family around. Happiest being alone and not bothered most of the time. That was true since early childhood for me.

My guess is that my temperament has been "trained" since very early childhood to be okay with relative isolation. It seems to me if I had been raised the other way, around lots of other kids, extended family, etc. etc. I'd be more in the "can't imagine life without kids" camp.


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## uhtred

I don't know any way to tell. I've never regretted not having children, but I had a pretty miserable childhood so I don't associate children with happiness in any way.



onceler1 said:


> I'm trying to get to the bottom of whether I would feel whether I missed something, or not.
> snip


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## onceler1

*Left out detail: me and wife may be on autism spectrum*

One thing that makes me not certain *I* want kids is I'm pretty sure I'm on the autism spectrum. My wife too likely. We've never been officially diagnosed, but our lives show many many signs of being different in big ways from most folks. That alone might be a good enough reason not to have kids? Though I'm sure some folks on the spectrum do. Plus, I know that I have a relatively low stress tolerance. Probably her as well, but definitely me.


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## Amplexor

OP, I have merged your three threads, basically on the the same subject, into a single thread. This will allow for easier moderation and more congruent information from you and responses from other posters.


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## onceler1

Amplexor said:


> OP, I have merged your three threads, basically on the the same subject, into a single thread. This will allow for easier moderation and more congruent information from you and responses from other posters.


Sorry about that, I suppose my thought was it's terribly flawed to give a tiny slice of one's complex life in a single thread so I was hoping to have multiple sounding boards going with slight variations on the same topic to try to unearth different details I could triage about myself since I don't want to invest in an actual therapist. Hopefully this works just as well though  It sure did already for me in 2015, at least one person here had a pretty big(positive) impact on me and my marriage.


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## Steve1000

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



onceler1 said:


> I forgot to mention my wife actually helps me with one of these hobbies. This hobby was one of my childhood dreams and she actually helped make it come true and continues to do so.
> 
> I can't leave her. Even if not having kids is something I'm going to feel great pain over later, I can't leave. It would ruin me, and it would ruin her. I don't think I'd ever be the same. I don't think I would ever find another woman. Or if I did, she wouldn't be like my wife. She wouldn't be able to reproduce helping me with this amazing hobby of mine. She wouldn't have the exact same tastes in everything (we do).


If you don't have kids, it is unlikely that you'll later experience such extreme regret. The chance that someday you may wish you had kids is not a good reason to divorce your wife and look for someone else who would like to try to have kids with you. You currently have a pretty happy life with a wife that you love and who is also your friend. Don't mess that up by worrying that someday in the future you might regret not having kids. If you have kids, you'll likely be glad to have them. If you don't have kids, you'll likely be happy that you don't have any.


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## onceler1

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



Steve1000 said:


> If you don't have kids, it is unlikely that you'll later experience such extreme regret. The chance that someday you may wish you had kids is not a good reason to divorce your wife and look for someone else who would like to try to have kids with you. You currently have a pretty happy life with a wife that you love and who is also your friend. Don't mess that up by worrying that someday in the future you might regret not having kids. If you have kids, you'll likely be glad to have them. If you don't have kids, you'll likely be happy that you don't have any.


Good post. Comforting to read. Thanks! Hoping it's not just what I want to hear but has a chance of being true 

Maybe next time somebody says I'll regret not having kids I should be like: "Do you regret not learning how to improvise classical keyboard music? No? Then leave me alone." LOL


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## michzz

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



oldshirt said:


> If you have a deep, innate yearning to have children, and your wife doesn't, then yes of course that is valid grounds for divorce.
> 
> Even the Vatican and the Catholic Church will recognize that as valid grounds for divorce.


No, the church only recognizes annulment.


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## onceler1

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



> If you have a deep, innate yearning to have children, and your wife doesn't, then yes of course that is valid grounds for divorce.
> 
> Even the Vatican and the Catholic Church will recognize that as valid grounds for divorce.


My sister certainly had an innate deep yearning. All I have is fear from people telling me I'll regret not having them.


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## kag123

OP - I haven't seen you give one real reason why you would later regret not having children except for "someone else told me I would". 



Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## onceler1

kag123 said:


> OP - I haven't seen you give one real reason why you would later regret not having children except for "someone else told me I would".
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I'm not sure I have any real reasons. Reasons cited to me are that it's one of the most fulfilling things one can do in life. Well, I have a couple of pretty incredible hobbies which would fit that description, but I definitely don't expect everybody to do them!


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## Steve1000

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



onceler1 said:


> Good post. Comforting to read. Thanks! Hoping it's not just what I want to hear but has a chance of being true
> 
> Maybe next time somebody says I'll regret not having kids I should be like: "Do you regret not learning how to improvise classical keyboard music? No? Then leave me alone." LOL


Truth is, we all have some regrets in life. I wish that I would have done some things differently. To deal with it, we think about those things that we did do correctly. If you feel that your wife loves you and values you, I think that is the most valuable thing you can have in life. That would be very difficult to replace. Leaving such a wife that is real (flaws and all) and exists in your daily life is something that very likely will lead to some very painful regrets in the future. Right now you feel content with life. You will likely keep that feeling if you keep the life you have. Also, be thankful that you have a hobby that you really enjoy.


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## onceler1

*Re: Is wife not wanting kids enough grounds for divorce if everything else is good?*



Steve1000 said:


> Truth is, we all have some regrets in life. I wish that I would have done some things differently. To deal with it, we think about those things that we did do correctly. If you feel that your wife loves you and values you, I think that is the most valuable thing you can have in life. That would be very difficult to replace. Leaving such a wife that is real (flaws and all) and exists in your daily life is something that very likely will lead to some very painful regrets in the future. Right now you feel content with life. You will likely keep that feeling if you keep the life you have. Also, be thankful that you have a hobby that you really enjoy.


You're quite right. Part of my challenge is my parents and my childhood were about as close to perfect as you can imagine, and my mother put an immense amount of effort into encouraging us to calibrate our lives to achieve as much of that as we could. It's been a process to reduce my daily anxiety level to a manageable level as a result.

It's hard not to compare myself to my parents and especially my dad. He never actively made me feel like I had to fill his shoes or anything, he's happy with who I have become. But sometimes I do feel like much less of a person than him. He married the love of his life, he has amazing hobbies, he has an even MORE amazing career, and three kids. So yeah. I really only got two of those. Haha. Which of course I'm grateful for, how many people can even say 2 out of those.


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## Satya

EleGirl said:


> Most adoption agencies will not go along with an adoption of an infant of someone who is 40 years or older. They do not want the age between the baby and the child to be more than 40 years. There is good reason for this. There are about 36 couples willing to adopt a child for every infant available for adoption. So the agencies can select younger couples. After age 40, typically people have less energy and patience to deal with a young child.


International adoption could be an option. I don't think there is as much age scrutiny or discrimination in that case.


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## oldshirt

I've never once regretted not doing something I didn't want to do in the first place.


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## sahtrader

Your problem is not tiny...kids are a big deal. When I first got married I did not want kids but my husband did. I'm glad I have a daughter, my life would be empty without her. I was adopted as a teenager by my parents who were in their 40-50s. They did not have any children together and later regretted it. My mom was my therapist when I was in foster care and my dad likes kids. I'm so glad they changed their mind about having kids. They gave me a loving family and a chance to do well in life.


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