# LD religious wife that think i am a "freak"



## Overseas (Aug 23, 2013)

I am coming from a place where Islam ideology have taken place & even lives in the process, And i am "secretly" Atheist.

My wife got raised up by a very religious family that have strict rules and that's where i think the issue lies. 

We've been married since 9 months she's 19 and i am 23 our sex life has been so boring to the point that i enjoy masturbating more than sex and sometimes i can't even continue although she's pretty attractive & hot woman and she do all the house work she's very clean & take care of her body and she's also successful with work.

She's LD and i am HD we have sex once a month or twice she doesn't seem to be interested in sex at all,aside from that for her it's just like a "robot" thing that we should do it only in the traditional position with no oral or different positions or some of my special requests which i believe are every man requests aside from that she doesn't have any expressions like the one you see in "porn" movies i know they'r not all that real but i just think i am doing it with a toy instead of my W.

She'd be embarrassed if i dive in with oral or trying another position it makes her very uncomfortable she would refuse then i get turned off and end up sleeping in the other room. when i tried to show her a porn movie she literally threw up!

We talked about this in an open conversation and she thinks that what i am asking her to do is nasty and b#tches work! and that she's not a one. i told her you're my wife she replied with i am giving you your rights and that's my body and that we should have respect to each other body and some of this BS that doesn't make any sense at all for me. she thinks this is an " ethics " matter.

Every time i try to explain that i am not enjoying it she'd think that i am a freak, and she's really one of those egotistical girls. 

Now someone would ask why did i marry her this in the first place, Well things are little complicated here i actually didn't date her too much before marrying i just saw that she's pretty and attractive woman and i thought i will be able to later on convert her beliefs and that we'll be fine because we're going to spend a lot of time together, overall i just set high expectations.

we love each other and i am attracted to her and she is to me, kisses & hugs happens every day between us, but she just appear to have some insecurities when it comes to sex she would turn into completely another woman. Although in Islam so-called "sharia laws" oral sex is allowed only anal is forbidden.

My options are limited here because "D" isn't an easy one and i don't deeply want that to happen because i believe i can fix this, current status is that i am enjoying masturbating and fantasizing more than actually making sex and that frustrates me although i've been trying to be cold with her like ignoring her & trying not to talk or sit together so she knows she's not delivering but i don't really think that is the solution it's only my pride kicking in.

i need your thoughts of course i missed some details but my head right now is just little confused & sorry for my English as it's my third language.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sorry, dude. You had more red flags waving than a Chinese parade, and you still married her. Your options are limited. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mr. Overseas, Salaam Aleykum, I am also a Muslim just like you. Where are you from? Please PM me, maybe I could offer you a perspective from a fellow Ikhwan


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## lfortender (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm sorry man, you should tell her about your feelings. I don't know exactly how to do this, like i think if she doesn't want to change maybe you should get a divorce. I know how you fell, my wife is a christian woman, sometimes is hard to understand and sometimes i get very frustated. I even think of divorce sometimes.
If you look for a hooker?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So, you hid who you really are, married a religious woman without figuring this stuff out ahead of time.... At what point do you accept that you reap what you sew?


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

I am a muslim as well. Your wife does not understand Islam....a spouse cannot deny sex. As simple as that. applies to both man and woman.


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## tryingtoenjoylife (Mar 30, 2012)

It absolutely offends me when someone says that a religious person doesn't enjoy sex. I know of a lot of religious ladies that are very happy sexually inside of a marriage. I dated a lot of religious girls who were very active sexually - if only for the "being bad" part. 

First, I am glad that IM Tam confirmed this, but most I though the faith said this.

Somewhere along the lines your wife got a skewed view of sex. Whether it was religion or not I can not say. I know of a lot of ladies who never masturbated until they were in their 20s and as a result had an awakening of sex. I guess the first thing I would ask is has she ever done this. If she thinks this is against god/Alah/or whatever, then you have issues. 

If she does not, and is willing to try, encourage her to do so. Leave the house give her time. Once she does, she will find positions and things she enjoys and will hopefully share that with you. Best of luck.


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

On the one hand, it's WRONG to try and force her to do something she doesn't want to do. She's right; it's her body.

On the other, marriage is about making your partner happy too, and she knows what would make you happy. I think asking her to try something once, and if she doesn't like it you won't do it, is not unreasonable.

I'm guessing you aren't asking for wild-and-crazy porno-style sex, just maybe flipping positions or oral/bj's? In that case, I might try introducing something new in sex. Like during the act, maybe introduce sex in the spooning position (on your side) for example, and tell her afterwards how much you enjoyed that and ask for her opinion.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I will suggest having her meeting older women from the same culture, and hopefully discussing such things, and for the OP's information inly, some, how to put it, discreet collection of data from males from the same culture. This could provide some useful insights to her and to the OP both.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

John, you beat me to the punch, that was the advice I was about to give. 

Mr. Overseas, if there is an Ustadzah or a syaikhah (preferably the ones who has many children, and understood the meaning of Quran 2:223), then I advise to take your wife to meet this Ustadzah to hear her advice in regards to husbandly and wifely duties. InshaAllah the ustadzah will give you and her good advices.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Overseas said:


> I am coming from a place where Islam ideology have taken place & even lives in the process, And i am "secretly" Atheist.
> 
> My wife got raised up by a very religious family that have strict rules and that's where i think the issue lies.
> 
> ...



Secretly living as an atheist in a Muslim country, wow. But try this, I'm a God fearing Christian man and I too would have to live a secret Christian life in a Muslim country, lest I be shot, nailed to a cross or beheaded and yes its getting that bad again.

You have to talk with her and tell her the sex life is very boring and not too often either. You are a healthy sexually HD guy and she isn't meeting your needs. She has to be told this, go to marriage counseling or divorce her and move on. Many women out there who are of faith that have high crazy sex drives.

Myself, I am a high sex drive guy, loves adventurous sex and 1 - 3x day if I could. My wife is not of faith, her dad is an atheist, and she has a very low sex drive and its boring, just like your Muslim wife.

Marriage counseling and if she won't go, won't change, she isn't taking care of you and your needs and its time to move on brother.

You're only young once. Why waste it on a sexual prude?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

You would have been better off taking her there slowly when you saw how conservative she was instead of demanding things she was uncomfortable with. Maybe you can start over by having the most sensual missionary sex. Instead of talking dirty talk sensual and affectionate reassuring her how good it feels to you. Ask her during the act if it feels good or if she likes it. But do it in a sensual way. Find out what she responds to in traditional sex. Take her hand and entertwine her fingers while you having PIV. Put your arms underneath her so you can squeeze her tight. Caress her legs and hips gently. 

Maybe you can wake her body up and then move slowly up the ladder. It take patients since you got off on the wrong foot but maybe you can lead her to paradise.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Regardless of culture a 19 year old is barely an adult and with no life experience of her own it may be too much. 

The problem is that if you go fast and furious she will shut down, but if she goes slow and steady she will soon be in the jaws of the LD monster, getting accustomed to married life and once a month and that's all she wrote. 

What you want is to go slow, very slow, but see measurable progress over, say, a years time. The scientist in me would say to keep a log in some form or another of progress, 

Family could be of great help, an older cousin or sister or similar. Also, if you're both still living in said unnamed country you finding similar sources of input from the male domain (the role models I mentioned earlier) would help. You may consider yourself HD but you go based on the cultural stereotypes for where you grew up. 

I know it is hard to think that you should be able to have much more sex but culture and religion do get in the way it seems. Go slow and track progress...


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Did everybody miss the fact that he said he was secretly atheist?

He's not Muslim in his heart.

OP, your in trouble with this marriage. She will never change. Yes, Im speaking from experience.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Does she know you're an atheist? Did she know before she married you?


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Does she know you're an atheist? Did she know before she married you?


Those are 2 questions I want the answers to, in my opinion the OP pulled a bait and switch. He wanted her because she was beautiful and baited her by pretending to be a muslim like she is. Then he pulled the switch and revealed his true colors. Then on top of that he is surprised that she is not down with the program.

She cannot trust him because he misrepresented himself. Women can't be open sexually with men we don't trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Question. What is LD and HD?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

6301 said:


> Question. What is LD and HD?


LD = low sex drive
HD = high


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Over, think about what you have done. You married a girl who is devout and hid your lack of faith. Your planned to mold her into someone who you should have married if that was what you wanted. 

This is a serious breach of morality. This marriage is her whole life, she has been prepared by her family to be a good wife and mother. Unfortunately, his 19 yo girl's life hinges on a dishonest self-centered man. 

You have done your wife a massive wrong. You are at fault for your problems and you are required to solve them equitably. You dishonor yourself and you need to change the person you are. 

For a 19 yo, she has enormous self-respect, conviction and personal morality. You should treasure her because you are unlikely to have found a better woman. 

You married the wrong woman, she is not as pliable as you assumed. It is time for you to grow up and act responsibly. Love the fine woman she is. Absolutely stop the porn and never disrespect her again by asking her to look at it. 

That will solve much of your problems. Look up the effect of porn on how some men relate to women sexually. It interferes with development of an intimate sexual relationship. 

When you stop watching porn, you will be able to make love to your wife and make sex about both of you not a porn scene. 

Some of the suggestions about how to approach your wife sexually were very good. Try them. 

I don't know why you lost faith but you need something outside of yourself to heighten your awareness of right and wrong and personal responsibility. 

Most importantly, contemplate what you have done to her. If you even consider D, you destroy an innocent, good girl along with her family and yours. This would indeed be evil. 

As you know, you are be protected from the consequences of your deciet due to the protection that men in your culture enjoy. 

Perhaps that is why you thought you could get away with your dishonesty? But you know what you have done and if you make her suffer for your immorality, you will eventually suffer for too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

I don't think religion even comes into it to be honest.

What we have, looking at what we've been told is this. A very new relationship between two young people. The girl is only 19. Patience and understanding are essential.

I once read that the peak sex drive happens in men at 18, and women at 30 (on average of course, there will be exceptions). My experience seems to support that theory. 

Good sex is the ultimate act of intimacy. You are not just bearing your flesh, but your spirit and soul too. Some people are comfortable making that submission sooner than others, but 19 is very young.

When my wife and I first got together, on more than one occasion I looked her straight in the eyes and told her I would never ask her to do anything she was not 100% comfortable with. Its paid off. We generally have good sex now, way better than any of the sex we had when were young. The reason is simple. We now know and trust each other enough to totally give ourselves to each other. It wasn't always like that.

OP said the love is there. The kissing and the hugs etc, so there is clearly everything that is needed. Call me an old romantic but I know from experience that if the love is there, everything else can just be made to fit in place. My wife and I have had to fight through some horrendous situations together, but we got through them together because the love was there. If the love truly goes both ways then OP will be patient. He will respect his young wife, and appreciate that she is trying to keep up with him even though she doesn't feel entirely at ease and ready. He will then not ask her to meet his 'needs', but make sure she knows that he is not going to expect her to do anything she isn't comfortable with. If he does that, and proves it by never pressuring, then if the love really is there, she will gradually submit more and more.

Sorry @Overseas, it can take a few years. If you love your wife you will just be patient with her. If you can't be patient with her, then you don't love her. Simple.

And its not a case of low sex drive or high sex drive. Its a matter of trust, and a connection of spirit, body and soul. If its just physical, then I'd suggest you shouldn't be married but rather end it now and give her chance to rebuild her life while she's still young enough to have the best chance of doing so.


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## Overseas (Aug 23, 2013)

i did mention that she doesn't know about my real beliefs, i don't pray neither do i fast, but yes i used to pretend to pray & fast because in no way her parents would've accepted an Atheist to marry their daughter, In the meantime she just think that my relationship with god need to improve.

i'd like to keep this matter away because i don't think it's the root of the issue.

i do appreciate her moral code,dedication,beauty and more of the reasons i am still with her but it's just hard to get her to be sexually active at least we need to have sex everyday so we can 'develop' our love and make it more attached if that's the words especially after our recent issues that i am going to mention below.

She doesn't enjoy being on top, After penetration she claims it hurts & also make her uncomfortable so she stops, and i am fine with that for now, as we need to get this fixed step by step, she continue to lie on her back,open her legs, close her eyes and ask me to turn the lights off! No i am not going to do it this way anymore, i can't actually feel the flow in that case... what causes confusion is that she kisses me along with a warm hug i just don't understand her.

From about 2 months we went to one of her relatives she's an old woman that she'd trust, last time i did that it ended up being evolved into anther long issue, she made it sound like i am exaggerating & being obsessive and that she's giving me all my rights, i couldn't stand her BS so i went home and left her with that old woman and she doesn't return home she went to her parents for a week, i texted her with a "Qur'an" quote that she should obey her husband although never wanted to be controlling but it's just her behavior that caused me to do it "her way" if she prefers that, and she ignored my text message, so i went into my car, drove to her parents house their was our in-law "husband of her sister" trying to solve out things with his wife before they get divorced...

He's a real hypocrite that i deeply hate and never liked him,And i made it clear for him in the past to mind his own business. At this moment, my head wasn't straight & all tolerant, he starts being rude throwing out some jokes & mocking about his wife and he tries to talk trash about my wife, and the rest of my wife's family, i told him to get out of my way & sight, But he continued his crap talk about how i am a failure because of a poor car decision i made in the past that isn't even his business, i just got fed up and ended this by beating the hell out of him let all my anger out until i got off him by the hands of the neighbors and my wife's family members so i just went back home without even talking to my wife as i couldn't care anymore at that moment.

Anyways, Her father was on my side & knew that guy was wrong and he's actually getting divorced with their daughter, i don't want to drag this into his personal issues but just to make the image clear for those judgmental folks in here, after all this issue ended up being solved in a "Family matter" and i end up paying money for his wounds.


Back on topic

My W got back home after we solved that in-law issue, we had a long in-depth conversation about our relationship and she said she's perfectly comfortable with me and loves me and thinks I'm a great husband - she's just not very interested in sex. and she says she's very happy, As a result I have a lot of confusing feelings, I know I'm just annoying her when I suggest that we have sex more often & more openly.

I feel guilty for always thinking about her body, and how hot she is, and all the things I wish she was interested in doing. Then I feel like she should be thinking about ME, and I've worked really hard to be attractive - a little on the slim side, but well muscled and defined. I work out 4 times a week, and I've been told I'm reasonably good looking & attractive. It makes me wonder about our relationship even when everything else seems to be going great, because I'm not secure as a husband and feel like I can't please my wife. Most of the time she's completely oblivious- out of sight out of mind. When I bring it up she just feels hurt because there isn't anything she can do about it. I don't know if something is broken in me to make me so physically attracted to her all the time...or if something is broken in her that she's not, neither do i want to turn into some "pushy kind" as i think their should be a "way back" in case things doesn't get sorted out.

And hey, Thanks for everyone's responses.

Overseas


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

What woman would be overjoyed at the prospect of being a prop in someone else's movie? This is what you want from your wife by asking her to emulate porn. You want to 'do things' to her- to see what you can get from a nice looking body, you do not want to have genuine intimacy with another person- to make love.

Much of porn is men simply 'doing things' to *****s (because that is the tone of porn) for their own selfish gratification. Almost all of it is completely fake. You wife's disgust at being shown this filth is entirely rational and reasonable. You could have picked some of the more sensual porn to show her that included the acts which you wish experience with your wife, I'm guessing you didn't by the sound of her reaction (throwing up).

What would be best would be for you to acknowledge that you, along with a significant proportion of the male population, are completely entrenched in porn culture and that you need to expunge it from your life. It's not doing you any favours. Your wife is not a beautiful body to **** jack-hammer porn style while she screams in an exaggerated fashion, she is a complete human being whose humanity you need to deal with. Stop dismissing her views and actually listen to her.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Overseas said:


> I feel guilty for always thinking about her body, and how hot she is, and all the things I wish she was interested in doing.


She's your wife. You are allowed to covet her as much as you want. You shouldn't feel guilty for that - ever, and you certainly shouldn't apologize for it.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Gruff said:


> What would be best would be for you to acknowledge that you, along with a significant proportion of the male population, are completely entrenched in porn culture and that you need to expunge it from your life.


??? :scratchhead:

Did you actually read the OP's posts, or did you just see the word "porn" in there and assumed the problem was about porn? There are real issues here, and porn has nothing to do with it.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry @Overseas, but let me see if I can put this into perspective based on the discussion so far.

You've been married for less than 1 year and you're already going to other people within the family and outside it to find out what's wrong.

Your very young wife is not as sexually adventurous as you would like her to be, so you think she is at fault in some way. In fact the title of this thread clearly puts the emphasis on your young wife's 'faults'.

You worked hard at your marriage by working out 4 times a week to keep yourself looking handsome.

I think you need to wake up to the fact that married life is not one never ending porn movie. You said your wife wont go on top because she claims it hurts. Have you even considered that maybe it does? If she is not fully aroused and 'preped' it will hurt. Even aside from that, have you considered that she may not be horny because YOU are not turning her on? She may love you and be comfortable with you, but it takes more than that. Good sex is in the mind, heart and soul. The body is just the machine that facilitates the physical act. You need to be patient with her, talk to her without applying any pressure, and NOT going running to the family because you're not happy about something to do with your wife. Have you considered how it might make her feel that it became necessary to involve the family in such a deeply personal matter?

Sorry to be brutally frank, but before you start looking for faults with your wife, you need to look inwards at yourself. Is your wife's attraction to you based on the fact that you are slim and muscular and work out 4 times a week? If it is, then sorry but you don't have a marriage, because we don't stay young and fit forever. If it is not, then what is it about you that is attractive to her? Is she in love with you? If she is, why is that? What made her fall in love with you, that you maybe need to do more of?

Anecdote warning When I met my wife, she was 21 and I was 23. Walking her home one night after a date, we passed a kids play area. We went in, and I started larking on like a big kid. She larked on a bit too but I could see she was a bit self conscious, so I told her something along the lines of she should just have fun like she was a kid, so she did. We ran round that park and swung on the swings, slid down the slide and generally acted like 5 year olds for half an hour or so til we'd both ran out of energy. As we sat down resting, she turned to me and said "this is what I love about you, I can be myself when I'm with you, you don't judge". 15 years on when live in a house together with our two lovely kids and the day to day mundanity of normal life, but play fights still brake out regularly, and at bed time, neither of tells the other what they should do. If things happen, things happen. If they don't, they don't. If they do, and one tries something new, if it doesn't work we simply laugh and move on.


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## Overseas (Aug 23, 2013)

ShyEnglishman said:


> I think you need to wake up to the fact that married life is not one never ending porn movie. You said your wife wont go on top because she claims it hurts. Have you even considered that maybe it does? If she is not fully aroused and 'preped' it will hurt. Even aside from that, have you considered that she may not be horny because YOU are not turning her on? She may love you and be comfortable with you, but it takes more than that. Good sex is in the mind, heart and soul. The body is just the machine that facilitates the physical act. You need to be patient with her, talk to her without applying any pressure, and NOT going running to the family because you're not happy about something to do with your wife. Have you considered how it might make her feel that it became necessary to involve the family in such a deeply personal matter?
> 
> Sorry to be brutally frank, but before you start looking for faults with your wife, you need to look inwards at yourself. Is your wife's attraction to you based on the fact that you are slim and muscular and work out 4 times a week? If it is, then sorry but you don't have a marriage, because we don't stay young and fit forever. If it is not, then what is it about you that is attractive to her? Is she in love with you? If she is, why is that? What made her fall in love with you, that you maybe need to do more of?


Your first input was well thought one, but not this one.

Let me make this clear enough, i didn't ask her to act like a porn actress, neither do i watch porn everyday, i do deserve and believe that my "Wife" should be filling those gaps, when i "DIY" or masturbate the fantasizing part is all about my Wife and rarely on a porn movie, i'd never reach out for a hooker.

The last thing I would ever do is try to force sex on my wife, or just beg for it without making any effort to get her involved and "ready." Generally when I do bring up sex - I'll give her a quick massage on her shoulders, and then try to initiate kissing afterward - However, she's said that stuff just makes her feel more pressured to "perform", like somehow she has to try really hard to engage sexually, and it's not something that comes naturally. I don't understand, but it's been a problem.

And she was very open to talk to her relative old woman that she - trust - and i mentioned that earlier, Besides, her family never knew what was the real reason of our issue, However, at some point and in case things won't improve i am going to just let them know about our situation to "get them in the picture".

Overseas


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Overseas said:


> Your first input was well thought one, but not this one.
> 
> Let me make this clear enough, i didn't ask her to act like a porn actress, neither do i watch porn everyday,


With respect, you've misunderstood my point entirely. I'm not suggesting you ask her to be a porn star or that you watch porn all day. I simply mean that media portrayal of a healthy married life are often grossly unrealistic. When you have some experience, you will realise that. In the meantime you can only judge by what you've seen in the media, or grossly exaggerated tales from your friends.

Psst, I'll let you into a secret. The reason why everyone else has a more adventurous sex life is because when they're boasting about it, they are exaggerating and sometimes blatant lying.



> i do deserve and believe that my "Wife" should be filling those gaps,


Sorry, I'm gobsmacked. I think we may have found the problem right there. Everything about that statement just shows a terrible attitude towards your wife. "I do deserve". Why? Why do you deserve anything? Your wife agreed to marry you. That is one of the greatest honours and privileges a man can ever be given. Nobody 'deserves' it. Then what's with the 'wife' in quotes? That implies to me that you feel she is not a proper wife in some way. Let me tell you something. Your wife is not only a 'wife', she is a person. She was a person before she was a wife and if you keep that kind of attitude, she will continue being a person after she's finished being your wife. "filling those gaps", what an insensitive way to describe the deeply intimate highly personal thing like the union between two people.




> The last thing I would ever do is try to force sex on my wife, or just beg for it without making any effort to get her involved and "ready." but generally when I do bring up sex - I'll give her a quick massage on her shoulders, and then try to initiate kissing afterward - However, she's said that stuff just makes her feel more pressured to "perform", like somehow she has to try really hard to engage sexually, and it's not something that comes naturally. I don't understand, but it's been a problem.


There's another problem. Generally you give her a "quick massage" then initiate kissing. So in other words, you ask her for sex. Its not words, but its still the same thing. You have a technique that you use to try to get her 'ready'. When I was 21 I was in a relationship with a lady who once told me her 'switch'. It worked a treat the first couple of times, but then it became just me asking for sex. There is no 'generally' when trying to seduce a woman. If you have a technique you are doing it wrong. It is all about reading the signals. You have to work WITH your wife. What would happen if instead of 'generally giving her a massage', what if you just gave her a great big squeezy cuddle instead and just relaxed with her? Does she ever fall asleep in your arms? The first time my wife fell asleep in my arms she apologised afterwards. I told her not to apologise because I took it as an honour even greater than sexual consent. During sex, as deeply intimate as it is, a woman is still aware of what is happening and can control the situation at any time. To fall asleep in your arms leaves her entirely at your mercy. If she feels comfortable enough to let herself fall asleep in your arms then you're onto a winner.



> And she was very open to talk to her relative old woman that she - trust - and i mentioned that earlier, Besides, her family never knew what was the real reason of our issue,


But the issue is that she felt that there was an issue because you've made her feel that way. Your wife, anyone's wife, should ideally not feel there is an issue. She should be 100% confident that everything is ok between you. If she is not, she should be able to talk to you and you should listen and compromise. From what you said, she has gone to her older relative to seek advice because she thinks she's getting it wrong. You said she is giving you sex, she is 19, you've been married less than a year, from what I can tell there is no issue with your wife but rather your expectations of what a wife should be.



> However, at some point in case things don't improve i am going to just let them know about our situation to "get them in the picture".


Great. So you plan to humiliate your wife in front of her and your family? Why do they need to be "in the picture"? Sorry, I'm not sure how things work where you are but my understanding of marriage is that it is a union between TWO people, who promise to love and support each other no matter what. Its all very well coming to a forum like this and seeking advice. That's great, its healthy. We don't know each other. If I walk past you in the street immediately after posting, I wont think "there's that lad who's not happy with his sex life". Going to the family is different entirely. Its going to cause embarrassment, resentment and distrust and a whole host of other negative things.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

ShyEnglishman said:


> I'm not suggesting you ask her to be a porn star or that you watch porn all day. I simply mean that media portrayal of a healthy married life are often grossly unrealistic. When you have some experience, you will realise that. In the meantime you can only judge by what you've seen in the media, or grossly exaggerated tales from your friends.
> 
> Psst, I'll let you into a secret. The reason why everyone else has a more adventurous sex life is because when they're boasting about it, they are exaggerating and sometimes blatant lying.


Hmmm... well, you can accuse me of lying if you wish, but my wife and I have "porn star sex" on a regular basis, at least once a week, and if we were still in our 20s like the OP, then we would be doing it even more often.

*Sex is not difficult or complicated when both people want it.* It's instinctual. After all, wild animals with less than 1% of a human's brainpower still manage to figure it out and have sex. If you're thinking too hard about it, chances are you're doing it wrong.

Of course there's nothing wrong with considering your partners feelings, and you should always take them into account. But if it is so difficult, if everything has to be just right, if you have to consider someone's sensitivities from every angle before becoming romantic, then frankly chances are that one or both of the people involved just aren't into it. In this case, it sounds like it's the OP's wife. I'm not saying the OP is the perfect husband, but in my experience, women with truly high libidos will still have sex under almost any conditions. 

I recommend couple's therapy, so they can hopefully find some common ground here. I really think they need someone outside their culture for this. If she calls him a "freak" for what sounds like pretty normal sexual curiosity, then it would be helpful for her to get some outside opinions and broaden her view of relationships.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You thought you'd be able to later convert her views.

That's the problem right there. She is who she is. Now you're married to her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And not everyone lies about their sex lives  Don't listen to that. YOU know what you need sexually. I was once a HD woman (Before health issues and bullshet)...and my husband is also HD. We did it almost daily. That's not a lie.

But I knew that going into a relationship with him. I didn't think I could change him later on.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Theseus said:


> She's your wife. You are allowed to covet her as much as you want. You shouldn't feel guilty for that - ever, and you certainly shouldn't apologize for it.


Good luck with this attitude in that part of the world. There's a reason the chador was invented 

My experience is that such attitudes at best are not as accepted there as here by women, mostly because attitudes about sexuality are not quite the same there as they are here.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

ShyEnglishman said:


> Psst, I'll let you into a secret. The reason why everyone else has a more adventurous sex life is because when they're boasting about it, they are exaggerating and sometimes blatant lying.
> .


It's not any different than how much money everyone claims they make vs what they make. 

That is why the OP should find out what the situation really looks like when seen from his culture's point of view, not the western culture of TAM, someone who grew up, or heck, who is still growing up in such a culture would have a drastically different frame of reference, expectations, and standards than a western woman.

I'm speaking from experience here, as my own wife was born and raised in the heavily religious, rather oppressive sexually (and otherwise ) People's Republic of Farawaystan. Even in the USA after 30 years she still has the old country in mind, which makes for some hilarious moments but also a lot of conflict that needs to be addressed.

Even 2nd generation kids born to -istan parents in the USA are not immune from such issues. Not everyone can shed a culture quickly (as I did, adopting a Citizen of the World culture) or switch cultures instantly as needed (my daughters) but in general it's a long LONG process.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

john117 said:


> Good luck with this attitude in that part of the world. There's a reason the chador was invented
> 
> My experience is that such attitudes at best are not as accepted there as here by women, mostly because attitudes about sexuality are not quite the same there as they are here.


Theseus was talking about wanting HIS OWN WIFE. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with HIS OWN WIFE. The chador is meant to deter the attention of other men, NOT her own spouse. Big difference there.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Of course there's nothing wrong with considering your partners feelings, and you should always take them into account.


You just have to take your partners feelings into account? Your partners feelings should be absolutely key. Especially where, as in the case of OP's wife, she has already said she experiences physical pain when trying certain positions he wants. If my wife says 'ow that hurts' when trying something new, should I A) Back off immediately from whatever is causing her pain, or B) go on the internet and tell the world my wife is LD (which, I'm sorry to say, means 'not turned on', it does not mean frigid). I choose A every time, and at least partly because of that my wife and I usually enjoy a good sex life.



> But if it is so difficult, if everything has to be just right, if you have to consider someone's sensitivities from every angle before becoming romantic, then frankly chances are that one or both of the people involved just aren't into it. In this case, it sounds like it's the OP's wife.


Indeed. I agree. She is just not 'into it'. That's the point. OP needs to work out why. His posts refer to HIS rights and HIS technique for initiating sex, and HIS expectations from HIS wife. So far the only thing he's suggested he might do about it is to humiliate her in front of their family.

Is his wife really "LD", or is she just not turned on by someone who focuses solely on HIS needs and 'rights'?

Sorry to be brutally frank. I hope it all works out well, but sometimes I think things need to be said.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

The cultural context is one of the most important aspects here. Couples counseling? What's that? 

As he threatened, he will go to her family pretending to be a devout man with the intension of making a good marriage. He will say she is not a good wife because she will not have sex with him. 

He will fail to mention that he is a poseur. He will fail to mention that he looks at porn and has gotten his appetite for sex from porn. He will not tell them that he expects her to act like a porn actress. 

Is that OK? All is fair to get sex? 

She will be pressured by her family to be the kind of wife a good faithful girl should be to a good and faithful man. Maybe she will let them know why she refuses to have sex the way he wants, she should tell them about the porn. 

Would anyone but a person capable of manipulative, amoral deceit be able to face her family and pretend to be devout in oder to coerce her to have porn sex with him? 

A good man would have some pangs of guilt or shame about going to face her family and tell more lies to get sex. 


The most important thing here is that the girl is married to someone she does not know and cannot trust. Nothing of empathy or compassion for this girl who is at the mercy of a man who seems totally self-absorbed, unrepentant and sex addled. 

But that's ok because the main thing in life is for him to get sex out of her. Her humanity means very little.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> The cultural context is one of the most important aspects here. Couples counseling? What's that?
> 
> As he threatened, he will go to her family pretending to be a devout man with the intension of making a good marriage. He will say she is not a good wife because she will not have sex with him.
> 
> ...


Catherine nailed it. We need to look at her post and really think about what the OP is conveying with his post. His wife has every reason not to trust him, he married her under false pretenses and the first thing to come to some of these posters mind is "how to get her more confortable with sex"? Are you guys kidding me?!

Some of you have got to be joking. If an LD woman came on this board and said "I pretended to be HD to snag this handsome guy into marrying me, now that we are married I want him to just forget about sex." I imagine that would go over well....not!

The OP has admitted to lying about who he really is to a young lady (19) and her family and will continue to lie to get sex. He is relying on that misogynistic society to have his back in this.

I pray for his wife, I really do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tryingtoenjoylife (Mar 30, 2012)

techmom said:


> Catherine nailed it. We need to look at her post and really think about what the OP is conveying with his post. His wife has every reason not to trust him, he married her under false pretenses and the first thing to come to some of these posters mind is "how to get her more confortable with sex"? Are you guys kidding me?!
> 
> Some of you have got to be joking. If an LD woman came on this board and said "I pretended to be HD to snag this handsome guy into marrying me, now that we are married I want him to just forget about sex." I imagine that would go over well....not!
> 
> ...


Thing is, a lot of guys on this board - myself included have that exact issue. A wife that was HD or pretended to be such and now could cares less if she ever has sex again.

Religion should play a very small role in the bedroom of a heterosexual married couple.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Is this HD / LD thing a US thing? Its a new one on me in the UK. Here, we just figure that people's sex drive depends on many factors and can therefore change very rapidly as different factors come into play.

Example. When I first got with my wife (ie before we were wed), her bitter ex said to me in the pub once, "you can have her, she is **** (rubbish) in bed anyway". I can honestly say that that was not true then, and is not true now. It was true for him, because towards the end of their relationship she simply didn't fancy him any more. That's not to say that low sex drive ALWAYS means that someone has gone off their partner. Over the 15 years my wife and I have been together we've both lost our drive on more than one occasion. Once after a very traumatic experience, a couple of times during bouts of depression (on my part).

The idea of a woman 'pretending' to be "HD" until you're married is not a new one. There are innumerable anecdotes and jokes about it. But something so often overlooked is this. Before you are married, you do some dating. When dating you make a real effort. Everything about each other is new and exciting because you're still getting to know each other. Generally you're still young and fit (though not always of course). So many factors come into play to make it exciting. Then you get wed, move in together, know each other so well that neither can surprise the other any more, and worst of all, you become complacent and take your partner for granted. Totally unintentional of course, but it happens nonetheless.

When I was a 23 I was fit, well toned, very active, very jovial etc. At one point I piled on so many pounds I was actually obese. I smoked too much so stunk of cigarettes, and add to this instead of living an adventurous life, I was working the 9-5 to pay the bills, budgeting, not doing much else. Surprise surprise, my wife's sex drive dropped. I guess in this LD /HD language, my wife became LD. I wonder why? I since realised the errors of my ways (helped by a crisis of health landing me in hospital), and took steps to get myself back into shape, re-prioritised my life to put the focus back on my relationship with my lovely wife, and inject a bit more fun back into life. Surprise surprise, my wife's sex drive came back. I guess you could say she became 'HD' again.

So I think before we condemn our wives (or even husbands) as "LD", we should first look at ourselves and the life we have together with our partners, and think how it has changed since the "LD" partner was "HD".


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

tryingtoenjoylife said:


> Thing is, a lot of guys on this board - myself included have that exact issue. A wife that was HD or pretended to be such and now could cares less if she ever has sex again.
> 
> Religion should play a very small role in the bedroom of a heterosexual married couple.


This has nothing to do with religion, it is all about trust. He misrepresented who he was, he lied. She trusted that he told the truth. We don't even know if she is LD, she is with the OP because she does not trust him. 

If she was with someone who was honest and upfront with who he was then maybe she would feel differently. She is 19, just became an adult. Give her a break already geez.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

He could have lied about his beliefs, but treated her with respect and care then it would have made a difference. How in the hell do you marry a girl who is raised in such a conservative climate then expect her to be turned on by porn right off the bat?

Why didn't he marry a girl with a western mindset? Maybe she would be more HD like him, and he would be more happy? This is what I wonder, why don't we marry the person who matches our beliefs instead of baiting a cute girl and hope afterwards that she complies with our wishes?

The OP is a coward, I'm hoping someone in the girl's family stands up for her. She seriously needs an advocate in this, and her hubby is not it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

tryingtoenjoylife said:


> Thing is, a lot of guys on this board - myself included have that exact issue. A wife that was HD or pretended to be such and now could cares less if she ever has sex again.
> 
> Religion should play a very small role in the bedroom of a heterosexual married couple.


However the Christian religion and even Islam were against withholding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

ShyEnglishman said:


> You just have to take your partners feelings into account? Your partners feelings should be absolutely key.


Yes. Including the husband's.




> Especially where, as in the case of OP's wife, she has already said she experiences physical pain when trying certain positions he wants.


So that explains why she doesn't like to be on top. But it doesn't explain her aversion to everything else. 




> Indeed. I agree. She is just not 'into it'. That's the point. OP needs to work out why. His posts refer to HIS rights and HIS technique for initiating sex, and HIS expectations from HIS wife.


Has it even occurred to you that *SHE* should also try to find out what the problem is? That *SHE* should also try and initiate sex? The fact that she isn't even interested to try and fix this is a pretty strong clue that she is really LD. You harshly criticize this guy for trying everything to make this work, but he has to try something, because she isn't doing it. A marriage takes two, not one. Even though his solutions are not the greatest, at least he's making an effort. She isn't. And that's why I put the burden of the problem here on her. 




> So far the only thing he's suggested he might do about it is to humiliate her in front of their family.


Like I said, not all his solutions are great ideas, including this one. But that's another issue.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

tryingtoenjoylife said:


> Thing is, a lot of guys on this board - myself included have that exact issue. A wife that was HD or pretended to be such and now could cares less if she ever has sex again.
> 
> Religion should play a very small role in the bedroom of a heterosexual married couple.


Yea maybe but honesty, self revelarion and transparency plays a really big role as you no doubt know. In OP culture religion is a large part of the choice of who to marry obviously he would not have been acceptable to her if she knew what he was. 

Just like your wife would not have been acceptable to you if she revealed herself. He lied to get into her bedroom and continues to lie to get her to be a porn star for him. 

If that does not excite outrage in you then please don't expect your wife's actions to illicit any sympathy for you. If deception is ok to get into a marriage in this case then it is acceptable for the old bait and switch in all cases. 

It is ok to allow self interest to rule your beliefs but at lest recognize the fact and don't expect more than you can give.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

ShyEnglishman said:


> Is this HD / LD thing a US thing? Its a new one on me in the UK. Here, we just figure that people's sex drive depends on many factors and can therefore change very rapidly as different factors come into play.
> 
> Example. When I first got with my wife (ie before we were wed), her bitter ex said to me in the pub once, "you can have her, she is **** (rubbish) in bed anyway". I can honestly say that that was not true then, and is not true now. It was true for him, because towards the end of their relationship she simply didn't fancy him any more. That's not to say that low sex drive ALWAYS means that someone has gone off their partner. Over the 15 years my wife and I have been together we've both lost our drive on more than one occasion. Once after a very traumatic experience, a couple of times during bouts of depression (on my part).
> 
> ...


Shy, one of the best posts on this site. Al I hear is how wives are treating their husbands bad and should be having more sex with their husbands; nothing about how the wife might just have a reason for having less sex. Few people on this site think how the man might not be treating his wife right, might have list his wife's respect for not working or handling the finances well, etc. Nothing about the man might have packed on weight or have bad hygiene habits. Nothing about a worn out working mom who also does all the work at the house with a husband who barely helps. Does anyone ever ask the husband if there is a reason his wife doesn't want sex with him? Rarely on TAM. They just start talking about her being LD and the bait and switch. 

While I'm sure there are a lot of men who are good to wives who do not have sex with them, my suspicion is some of the men here do things that cause their wives to lose interest. Instead of taking some blame, they come here and start complaining and a lot of people start telling them how terrible their wives are and how they should divorce them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

techmom said:


> This has nothing to do with religion, it is all about trust. He misrepresented who he was, he lied.


He lied, but it's not like he lied about a criminal record or that he was born a woman or anything like that. He lied about being a Muslim. But he is in a culture that doesn't accept atheism. 

Leaving the religion is called "apostasy" and many Muslims believe the penalty for that should be death. I have been overseas in Iraq, Kuwait, and Afghanistan and seen this attitude first hand.



techmom said:


> How in the hell do you marry a girl who is raised in such a conservative climate then expect her to be turned on by porn right off the bat?


Are we even reading the same letter here? There is no indication that he exposed her to porn "right off the bat". In desperation he showed it to her, she reacted negatively, so he dropped it. 



> Why didn't he marry a girl with a western mindset?


Because you don't need a "western mindset" to enjoy sex with your husband. Frankly, that statement is culturally centrist, if not outright racist.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Has it even occurred to you that *SHE* should also try to find out what the problem is? That *SHE* should also try and initiate sex?


Briefly yes. But...



> The fact that she isn't even interested to try and fix this is a pretty strong clue that she is really LD. You harshly criticize this guy for trying everything to make this work, but he has to try something, because she isn't doing it. A marriage takes two, not one. Even though his solutions are not the greatest, at least he's making an effort. She isn't. And that's why I put the burden of the problem here on her.


...She is 19. We don't know if she even wanted to marry him. Certainly he has shown his own attitude to be questionable. Check his reason for marrying her...



Overseas said:


> Now someone would ask why did i marry her this in the first place, Well things are little complicated here i actually didn't date her too much before marrying i just saw that she's pretty and attractive woman and i thought i will be able to later on convert her beliefs and that we'll be fine because we're going to spend a lot of time together, overall i just set high expectations.


So what we have is, a very, very young woman who has not been given time to get to know her husband, and a young man who from the outset decided he would convert her to suit himself. The OP has said this himself. Its right there in the opening post.

So based on that, why should we believe there is a problem with her? Low sex drive doesn't mean she is faulty in some way, have you even considered that she just might not want sex with him?

Why on earth would any woman, regardless of culture, want to give herself completely to a man that hasn't even spent time to get to know her properly, and then brings the family into it at the very first hint that he's not getting it all his own way?

Why should the girl seek help for low sex drive? Sex is not a right. Maybe if she had a husband that was patient and understanding, and was willing to work with her, taking as long as it takes, then maybe in time, and quite possibly a short time, the OP might find that she really opens up but as it stands, that isn't going to happen because the young man's attitude appears to be that he is disappointed with his defective possession.

If I am harshly criticising this guy, that is not really my intention. I don't know the OP or his culture or circumstances. It could be that he genuinely knows no different, but that changes nothing. A young woman, a person with a spirit and soul, is being asked to do things she currently is not comfortable doing, and the result will be more emotional discomfort later. As a consequence of this a young man is frustrated and struggling to understand why life isn't a bed of roses. If this is personal to him and his wife, he needs to be told it. If this is a cultural thing, then that culture needs to change because it is oppressive to women. And I never thought I've ever catch myself saying that, because I'm not one for 'women's lib' and all that, I believe all should be equal.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

ShyEnglishman said:


> Briefly yes. But...



Then maybe it should be more than a "brief" consideration. She is half of this marriage after all. 



> ..She is 19. We don't know if she even wanted to marry him.


He is only 23! Barely older. They are BOTH adults and both made a decision to marry, so they are both responsible for their decisions. She doesn't get a free pass here. 



> So what we have is, a very, very young woman who has not been given time to get to know her husband, and a young man who from the outset decided he would convert her to suit himself. The OP has said this himself. Its right there in the opening post.


Although he had little sexual experience (Im assuming), she had zero experience, so naturally he's going to try to teach her a few things. 

Like I said earlier, this couple really needs marriage counseling independent of a religious setting. You can trash talk the husband all you want, but that's not helping this couple.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

PBear said:


> Sorry, dude. You had *more red flags waving than a Chinese parade, *and you still married her. Your options are limited.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:

Oh PBear.... Classic!


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Then maybe it should be more than a "brief" consideration. She is half of this marriage after all.


She should be. She clearly isn't. The OP has told us in his own words. This marriage is him, her and his family, and her.



> He is only 23! Barely older.


If he was 83 it still wouldn't be right for him to expect her to do anything with him that she wasn't comfortable doing with him.



> They are BOTH adults and both made a decision to marry, so they are both responsible for their decisions. She doesn't get a free pass here.


Indeed, and she isn't getting a free pass. OP has already told us that she 'gives him his rights' and that she has approached an older female relative seeking advice. It sounds to me like she is trying to keep up with his demands, to meet his 'high expectations' which OP himself, in his owns words, says he had. She shouldn't have to. If the marriage is based on what he think could be rather than what _is_, then it is a marriage built on lies. It is anyway, OP has already told us he lied and continues to lie. She is married to a man that wants to mould her into something she isn't, who is pretending to be something he isn't, and despite this she is trying to conform. Doesn't sound like a free pass to me.



> Although he had little sexual experience (Im assuming), she had zero experience, so naturally he's going to try to teach her a few things.


That's fair enough, if she feels comfortable enough to be receptive to that.



> Like I said earlier, this couple really needs marriage counseling independent of a religious setting.


Maybe so. Maybe they'll find a counsellor who can explain how to make a marriage based on lies work.



> You can trash talk the husband all you want, but that's not helping this couple.


I don't seek to 'trash talk' anyone, but I'm not going to sit here and say everything's fine and its ok to treat a 19 year old woman like a possession. If you ask for opinions on a public forum, you should expect to get opinions that may not be quite what you'd hoped. What would be the point if everybody just said 'yeah dude, you're right, its ok to lie. Its ok to expect a young woman to give herself fully when you haven't even given her the time and attention she needs to truly get to know you' etc.

If OP's wife was your little sister or your daughter, would you still hold the same opinion?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Overseas said:


> i did mention that she doesn't know about my real beliefs, i don't pray neither do i fast, but yes i used to pretend to pray & fast because in no way her parents would've accepted an Atheist to marry their daughter, In the meantime she just think that my relationship with god need to improve.
> 
> Go back and reread Catherine's post. For someone of such a strong faith to find out that their spouse is an atheist will break down any semblance of trust, not that you've bothered to build any....
> 
> ...


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I wish you the best in this situation brother and I hope everything can be worked out. :smthumbup:

The way I see it, someone's faith or non faith or just doing whatever they want (still no faith) shouldn't influence their sexual desire for their husband or wife. They got married because of the emotional and physical connection and yes that means a lot of sex.

Her Muslim faith is very important to her but its killing your sexual part of the marriage. If she truly loved you, she would be all over you sexually because she's in her young prime and has no kids. What her parents and relatives think is irrelevant. She didn't marry them, she married you.

She doesn't have to stop being a Muslim but sacrificing her sex drive because of her faith shouldn't be happening either. What you both do sexually together doesn't matter and the sky is the limit because its between the two of you, in the holy bonds of marriage. When a faith says you can't do this or that and you're married, that's just old school thinking and tradition more than anything else.

Like I said, either she goes to marriage counseling with you and works through this sexual repressive issue of hers or you divorce her and move on. More than likely she will not change for you, which is sad. Did she marry you or more her Muslim faith?

Women mature mentally and physically much sooner than us men, so she's 19, she's a woman already but a 19 - 21 year old guy is still a young man and not a man yet. See? I wasn't ready for a serious relationship and marriage until I turned around 24 years old. When I was younger than that, nope and not happening. My wife was similar when she turned around 20 years old.

And she should be communicating her sexual desires and fantasies with you and wanting to do them with you. At age 19 she should be usually in the mood and not a sexual prude already. She doesn't have to watch porn, goes against her Muslim faith but she should want to do all sexual positions, and use toys, oils, candles and the sky is the limit with you.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

ShyEnglishman said:


> If he was 83 it still wouldn't be right for him to expect her to do anything with him that she wasn't comfortable doing with him.


Whoosh! My point went right over your head. So in other words, you are saying his youth is no excuse, but on the other hand, she's too young to know what she was doing? I don't want to make accusations but it really looks like you have a huge bias here; it's like you see her as a child and him as a predatory adult. 



> OP has already told us that she 'gives him his rights' and that she has approached an older female relative seeking advice. It sounds to me like she is trying to keep up with his demands


What?? So her talking to an older married woman for advice is "keeping up with his demands"? But I don't see it as all for his benefit, since she's part of this marriage too. 



> Maybe so. Maybe they'll find a counsellor who can explain how to make a marriage based on lies work.


So they should just quit then?

You and others here seem to be really fixated on the issue of him lying to her. Unless I'm missing something the only lie he told was that he now considers himself an atheist instead of a Muslim. First of all, as I pointed out, in Islam, leaving the faith can be a death sentence, so you might be willing to cut him a little slack on that. And frankly, I consider that deception to be irrelevant anyway. *Even if he was a devout Muslim, he would still be horny*, and his wife still would have the same hangups about sex.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Theseus was talking about wanting HIS OWN WIFE. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with HIS OWN WIFE. The chador is meant to deter the attention of other men, NOT her own spouse. Big difference there.


In a western context, you are correct. In a non western, Islamic context, not so.

In an arranged or nearly arranged marriage it could be that the wife was not fully agreeing to all this. It's not all Love Story, piano music, etc. 

As for the chador, or in general many other behaviors of women we find strange, I would not be so sure again. The chador etc may have been intended for use "against" others, but in practice it extends on everyone. 

We often host parties for expats and they are either family gatherings or women only gatherings where men are not allowed including the host's husband i.e. me once the guests arrive. Invariably the women only meetings feature considerably more revealing outfits than the mixed meetings . For couples who have known each other for decades this is quite noticeable 

I have dealt with this culture for 31 years and it never ceases to amaze me how different it can be when viewed from a westerner standpoint, especially in the dating, relationships, etc. realm.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is fascinating.

Here we have men whose are suffering in marriages to wives who deceived them about their motives and feelings about the marital contract and sex. The wife got a husband, provider and father for kids. The husband got a ball and chain. 

What is fascinating is that these deceived men are advising their adversary on how to close the deal on his deception. He hid his agenda to get a porn sex stand-in and they are advising him on how to continue the deception and to use her families traditional values to coerce her to preform for him in bed. 

I am trying to figure out why they side with this deceiver so easily. I would think they would feel the position of the girl much more sympathetically having themselves been fooled. 

I wonder what would happen if a woman posted about how she got her husband by pretending to love sex and now needs advice on how to maneuver him into giving her a child and a large house so she can stop having sex. Before one person could give her advice, two brigades of the dogs of war would be on her in a flash. 

So what is going on?? These men don't seem to be adverse to deception, manipulation, and lies to get what is wanted. As long as they are not the ones deceived, I guess. 

That's cool. Their sense of right and wrong in relationships is conditional. In this case, the principal seems to be - if doing the right thing adversely effects the man's access to sex, then it's wrong, otherwise it's right.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

For what it's worth, there was a thread in the Men's Clubhouse where a guy wanted to marry a girl from the east because girls in the west had too many issues. I think that the OP targeted a woman from this region of the world because they seem more "compliant". The misogynist society aids this, this is why I pray for the eastern women to become more liberated to stop them from being preyed on.

Catherine is right, the men who are supporting the OP are supporting deceipt, the same deceipt that landed them into sexless marriages. 

That is my 2 cents, sex evidentially rules all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Theseus said:


> Whoosh! My point went right over your head. So in other words, you are saying his youth is no excuse, but on the other hand, she's too young to know what she was doing? I don't want to make accusations but it really looks like you have a huge bias here; it's like you see her as a child and him as a predatory adult.
> 
> What?? So her talking to an older married woman for advice is "keeping up with his demands"? But I don't see it as all for his benefit, since she's part of this marriage too.
> 
> ...


This is a remarkable bit of mental gymnastics. How did you do that? You managed to make a massive lie a bit of inconsequential cosmic dust. A lie about something as fundamental as a belief in God should not effect their relationship?

But of course that should not affect his sex life. He pretended to pray. Did you see that. Pretended! You don't see a character problem here? But of course that should not effect his sex life. 

If they were just sex partners i would agree with you. but they are husband and wife embarking on a LT mutually satisfying intimate relationship. 

You cant be intimate and trusting with an inauthentic person. They are acting a part. On some level it is detected. It matters. It matters big time. 

They need to trust each other. He does not get rewarded for his evil by having a happy fvck fest and living happily ever after.

He gets what he is getting now. Frustration at every turn. He deserves that and more. 

If there was a wise elder who would talk to him instead of to his wife. A wise man would tell him that he is frustrated because his lie has brought him a hollow victory. He is near but oh so far. that is is punishment for his wickedness. 

His only hope is to come clean, prayer for forgiveness and make amends by his wife. He needs to be the man he pretended to be. I will bet anything that she will forgive him for his initial deceit, love and respect him and be led by him anywhere he wants to go. 

He will have the girl of his dreams. If he carries on the charade, he will have frustration upon frustration and his life will be plagued by blockage. 

This is not Disneyland, it's life. That's how life works, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. He just blew up his life big time. He has a chance to save himself but not if sex is his god.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

You guys are missing a crucial point.

If this guy is an atheist and he is married to a Muslim woman as per Islamic rules. Then this marriage is not valid.

If he lives in a Muslim country and was a Muslim by birth he will be sentenced to death. He is a dead man walking.

Spare the poor girl and save your life.
Divorce her and go to Europe or America.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

There's no 'deceiver' and 'deceived' here. We have a pair of kids that are trying to figure this sex and marriage thing out from suggestions from people who largely do not have a clue about the culture in question.

The part about devout vs. non devout is hilarious. Unless one carries a card from the Actors Guild and can fake it with conviction it is impossible to fake religion in front of immediate family. The original characterization of 'Atheist' is likely a misnomer. He said he did not fast, right? you can't hide that from your spouse. Many other things, too. Can you pretend you're a believer so that you don't lose business, your job, etc. Sure. But people know. Been there, done that, etc. Likewise, you can't be watching porn with your wife and expect she won't get the message. 

Religion is not an issue, not in the western sense at least. The guy could be a Hajj for all we know, and it won't make an iota of difference.

Suggestions of counseling are equally western-based and impractical. In most of the countries we're talking about, it ain't happening. 

What I'm guessing is happening is that OP is either going way to o fast with an inexperienced and probably scared young woman or the marriage was arranged and she is not eager to get on wit h the program. It's not LD vs HD, Believer vs Infidel, or anything of the sort.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

im_tam said:


> If this guy is an atheist and he is married to a Muslim woman as per Islamic rules. Then this marriage is not valid.


Well, I'm still trying to convince the Peoples' Republic of Farawaystan that I married one of their subjects, er, citizens. Ain't working, even tho she's NOT Muslim, I'm not Muslim, etc. etc. Only way to recognize the marriage is to have me convert since the official paperwork is only designed for Muslims marrying NON Muslims, not for NON Muslims marrying NON Muslims... 



> Spare the poor girl and save your life.
> Divorce her and go to Europe or America.


Where, according to TAM, all of our sexual problems have been solved long ago :rofl:


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

This is why I have an issue with Islam. If you are a Muslim and decide its not for you and become an atheist, Christian or some other faith, you are a dead man walking. That sounds like a cult. Leave the cult and die. If its a loving faith, if you leave it, fellow Muslims should love and pray for you regardless, if Islam is a faith of tolerance and love for your fellow man. If you leave the Jewish faith, Christian faith or stop being an Atheist, no one tries to kill you in a Western country. Until this stops, the news and world will always see Islam as an intolerant and terrorist faith. Syria for example, 100,000+ dead already, Muslims killing fellow Muslims.

But if you're an atheist, Christian or Jew, you are a dead man in Muslim countries. In the old days, way back, Jews, Christians and Muslims got along and worshipped together in peace, King Solomon's temple era for example. Today, you get persecuted and killed off.

Whether I didn't believe in Jesus or not, I would still be horny.

Whether my wife was neutral about the issue or a Christian, I would still be horny.

Once she married him, regardless of her faith, she should be all over him because she loves him and is wanting to take care of his needs. Nuff said.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> But if you're an atheist, Christian or Jew, you are a dead man in Muslim countries. In the old days, way back, Jews, Christians and Muslims got along and worshipped together in peace, King Solomon's temple era for example. Today, you get persecuted and killed off.


It depends on the country we're talking about and the religion we're talking about. I have Christian friends working in many Muslim countries, nothing to it. Inconvenient at times, but not a major issue. 

There are some exceptions that are political in nature but for the most part it is not an issue. Christians in Iraq or Egypt, Zoroastrians in Iran, Jews in pretty much every place, and so on are pretty safe.


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Once she married him, regardless of her faith, she should be all over him because she loves him and is wanting to take care of his needs. Nuff said.


She is all over him, the op says she kisses and hugs him passionately. This tells me the wife desires intimacy. The turn off is his attitude- 'perform for me like the *****s in these videos', this is what is stifling the bedroom activities. A poster described the wife as a 'porn sex stand-in', I think this is an apt description of how the op views his wife.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Once she married him, regardless of her faith, she should be all over him because she loves him and is wanting to take care of his needs. Nuff said.


Heavens forbid any little thing like lack of trust get in the way of the almighty sex life! My god what is wrong with this woman? Ain't putting out for the king after he lied to her and her family about his lifestyle, religion, and whatever else it took to convince them to let her get married to him? How dare she?

Open them legs up and give it up to your almighty king, he needs his sex, everything else be darned


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

So the world news is over exaggerating it then?

I've watched news on Muslim African countries, going into Christian churches and shooting people, burning churches down and the latest was burning alive 30 kids, all because they weren't Muslim or would convert. Is that a faith of tolerance, love and peace, nope.

If a Jew went to Iran, he would disappear.

If a Christian went to Iran, he would disappear.

Christian churches are being shut down all over Iran and Christian's persecuted.

If you're gay or lesbian in a Muslim country, don't tell anyone or you will be killed. Either get a sex change or be killed. In Western countries, much more tolerant and you won't be killed or forced to have a sex change and no stoning either.

A former co-worker came from Iran because he wasn't a Muslim and the persecution is really bad. He is of the Bahai faith.

Now if a Muslim came to Canada, no problem. 

If a Muslim came to the US or Europe, no problem. We even let them march in the streets, denouncing everyone's faith and pro Islam chants, training terrorist cells, etc. 9-11 ring a bell?

All the airline attempts to bring down air plains that are thwarted?

Another suicide bomber again and again and again and again.....

If you walk into a Muslim country and have a Bible on you, you'd better run fast.

The world is scared of Islam and is catering to it, to try and minimize the terrorism, instead of really standing up to it. We'll there are some countries that are really standing up to it now and its starting to spread. Basically, respect those countries values or leave.

Do fellow Muslims try and stop their own from committing terrorist acts? Nope. That would stop it right there.

When this all stops, Islam will be a faith of true peace, tolerance, love and probably take over the world.

I've seen Muslim terrorists beheading people in the name of God. Just crazy.

If you say anything bad against Islam, the Koran or their prophet, in a Muslim country, you disappear. But its okay to knock all other faiths big time, destroy their holy books and Jesus?!

What about that story from England were two Muslims killed and butchered to death a British soldier in broad daylight? Are you kidding me???

I have yet to hear a Christian, Jew or Atheist suicide bomb a Muslim country, take down their airlines, go into Mosques killing off Muslims, etc. Everyone is trying to defend themselves from the terrorists.


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## Overseas (Aug 23, 2013)

Settle down Y'all drama queens, Even my own wife would make sense more than some of the replies here!

i won't bother laying out all the "fallacies" represented by what some of you have posted, that pretend to show a whole bad image about me which isn't true if you really read my posts .

i was looking for some practical advises that follow a pragmatic approach, i don't have the time to convert this topic into a what is really " ISLAM " and why you should lie about your atheism even pretend to pray and fast and even be a hypocrite with everyone you're living with.

Do i even need to attach a footage that shows a girl getting stoned by hypocrite Muslims that conspired against her because she refused to sleep with their "Sheikh".

-OR-

How about another real footage of a man getting his head cut off in a crowded yard with everyone screaming " Allah Akbar " because he just couldn't believe that "Mohammad" is the messenger of GOD ?

-or-

Do i even need to tell you about how your media "covers/hide" all the non-human actions that happen in those countries because there's some sort of " interest " for them to get OIL benefits?

Yeah, things aren't all shine and bright...

ugh, what does that change, why bother, you already witnessed 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan and if you really are all that "defenders of rights" as you claim to be here you would've made an effort. 
Thus, proves how hypocrite some of you are right now.

i couldn't ignore some of the non-direct trolling posts in here

Like Catherine602, i really don't know what's the point of dropping on me how miserable is your life that you failed big time! you think this would make me roll my eyes and be sad about myself just like you so you'd feel little better about yourself, well in fact i'd roll my eyes as an expression of someone getting disgusted of your "bloated bullsh!t".

-OR-

ShyEnglishman, Who suddenly "figured out" that he can misrepresent & bash someone for some unknown reason that i don't even care to know, why in your first post you were all wise and bright but just 'suddenly' a ButtHurt who contradicts himself and who "ADMITS" earlier on to have the same issue, when i "personally" corrected your misunderstanding 2nd reply, you started to contradict your first post by actually "criticizing" my first post! why didn't you criticize it in your first input? maybe you were too shy that you needed other members to give you the "flow" so you be more "self-confident" with your non-direct trolling that gets you the attention you crave as a result of an ignoring wife you had to deal with!





*@iDon'tCareWho*, that she feels bad about my wife marrying me and said she supports liberal girls movements and considered a Canned answer she think i am a "Mysogynist", well you haven't seen anything about Mysogynist! You should feel better that she isn't with a Real-Muslim guy who HAVE ALL THE RIGHTS legally and religiously to beat his wife if she refused to sleep with him


فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ

From the Qur'an verse 34 of Surah an-Nisa:



> *Men are in charge of women* by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], *strike them*. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.


Eh! How's that sound Ms.FeelingBadAboutMyWife Do you still feel bad that i need to pray and have a high power commanding me to beat my wife? or even worse How about if her Father didn't approve me as a Husband and she married a REAL MUSLIM GUY who would follow his so-called God quote rather than being in a non-eastern forum looking for liberated advises that respect woman rights? Any relation! 




When i suggested to "tell her family" i said: " later on - if things doesn't improve " which shows that i meant a possible divorce so they know the "reason". And that's the way it happens in our countries, but some of the "virtual ninja's " decided to bash on that and to misunderstand it "on purpose".

Actually i'd rather try myself to fix my own issues than to be here draining my energy while bothering to teach someone who's too ignorant to realize the facts about why, how and where, or he knows but just want's to have fun being all "harsh" as a result of missing that feeling in reality.

Overseas


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

You guys are confusing religon with politics.

and this hitting the wife thing.
Can you please give the full context on it.
How as per Islamic law the hit should be so soft that no one standing next to the person can even hear it.


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## Overseas (Aug 23, 2013)

> You guys are confusing religon with politics.


They choosed to drag this into religion and they're Welcome.



> and this hitting the wife thing.
> Can you please give the full context on it.
> How as per Islamic law the hit should be so soft that no one standing next to the person can even hear it.


Quran advise men to beat their wives if they disobey them period. Thanks, my wife married an Atheist who prefers dealing with her humanly!










That is A Logical Fallacy.

the text is clear enough" STRIKE " or " واضربوهن " and doesn't mention anything about how soft it should be.

So Per Islamic law is per "BS", it's not just a matter of "hitting softly" -even that doesn't change anything - it's a matter of " Man Are In Charge Of Woman", now those who tries to "fix" this "bug" by playing with words shall go create a new religion.

As a matter of fact, half of Muslims don't even know their real religion because their "sheikh's" have done the hard work to make it look all "Good".

It's pitiful for you that an Atheist teaching you about your religion.

There's more from the "Hadith" about how you should treat your wife that REAL-MUSLIMS follow, you should be thankful that i just quoted straight from the "Quran". 

Overseas


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Whoosh! My point went right over your head. So in other words, you are saying his youth is no excuse,


Correct. He is 23. By the age of 23 he should know better than to think it is ok to lie in order to win the affections of a girl he hardly dated but wanted to marry just because she was attractive. By 23 he should know better than to find fault with a girl just because she is not yet comfortable to do some of the things that more experienced women might do. At 23 he is old enough to know that if a girl says no because it physically hurts, you don't then blame her.



> but on the other hand, she's too young to know what she was doing?


I don't recall saying that she was too young to know what she was doing. Maybe I did, I just can't remember. What I am saying though is that she is young and inexperienced and according to the information provided by the OP, she has not had anything like enough time to get comfortable with him.



> I don't want to make accusations but it really looks like you have a huge bias here; it's like you see her as a child and him as a predatory adult.


Thank you for the clarity. I wouldn't have put it like that, but now you mention it. Older man lies to win younger girl. Older man is willing to humiliate younger girl in order to get his own way. Yes, thanks, your analysis is far more succinct than my previous attempts.



> What?? So her talking to an older married woman for advice is "keeping up with his demands"?


Yes of course it is. My wife is a bit younger than me and was less experienced when we met. I never went encouraged her to go and find out what's wrong with her and I never threatened to tell the family anything. I just treat her nice, give her time and lots of positive encouragement, and let her get more adventurous at her own pace. This is all I was advising OP to do before you drew my attention to all his faults.



> But I don't see it as all for his benefit, since she's part of this marriage too.


Indeed she is, but maybe she doesn't see the problem. She is giving him it, she is showing affection etc. She is pulling her weight. He needs to pull his weight by compromising. He just needs to treat her right, show some respect and patience, and not go threatening to tell the family that she's inadequate. If he can grasp that very, very basic point, then everything else will drop into place naturally in time, and quite likely not even that much time. 



> So they should just quit then?


That is there business. Neither you nor I have any right to even attempt to answer that question.



> You and others here seem to be really fixated on the issue of him lying to her. Unless I'm missing something the only lie he told was that he now considers himself an atheist instead of a Muslim. First of all, as I pointed out, in Islam, leaving the faith can be a death sentence, so you might be willing to cut him a little slack on that.


Fair enough, although if he fears for his life in one location, he could always leave for another.



> And frankly, I consider that deception to be irrelevant anyway. *Even if he was a devout Muslim, he would still be horny*, and his wife still would have the same hangups about sex.


Indeed. Absolutely spot on. This is why if he is a good husband and good man, he will be patient and supportive and give lots of gentle encouragement and reassurance, and not try to pressure her and threaten to humiliate her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

"First advise them."

This means to instruct, to teach, to guide. This takes time and must be undertaken with the same loving and patient attitude when teaching someone anything that is completely new, foreign, and possibly even frightening.

You haven't done this. You left it up to some other woman to instruct you bride to spread her legs...even though it hurts her (which you mention you don't believe-and that says a great deal about your own misunderstanding of female sexuality.)

"Then if they persist, forsake them in bed."

This could mean do not attempt to have sex with them, or it could mean do not bother to take measures that they might enjoy sex as you take your husbandly rights.

So you skipped the instruct part and went straight to the forsake part. Because if it hurts her, and you didn't believe that, clearly she is not aroused enough to have enjoyment that would lead to orgasm.

"And [finally] strike them."

Leaves no room for interpretation here. Except the word "finally" which implies after you have exhausted ALL possible measures to teach, guide, instruct and arouse her, she still doesn't willingly spread her legs (and it fails to mention exactly how often she is expected to spread her legs-and might I point out she is spreading her legs once a month) then you may strike her.

YOU are her husband and it is up to you to show her the wonders of her body, teach her the rightness of marrital sex, which will take a long time for a woman raised to think her sexuality is something to be suppressed and denied, and slowly bring out the healthy sexual response a husband wants to see in his wife.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Overseas said:


> ShyEnglishman, Who suddenly "figured out" that he can misrepresent & bash someone for some unknown reason that i don't even care to know, why in your first post you were all wise and bright but just 'suddenly' a ButtHurt who contradicts himself and who "ADMITS" earlier on to have the same issue, when i "personally" corrected your misunderstanding 2nd reply, you started to contradict your first post by actually "criticizing" my first post! why didn't you criticize it in your first input? maybe you were too shy that you needed other members to give you the "flow" so you be more "self-confident" with your non-direct trolling that gets you the attention you crave as a result of an ignoring wife you had to deal with!


I do apologise. I missed this post earlier. It puts your views into context far better than your previous posts did. I had you down as someone who was arrogant based on your lying about your religious faith (or lack of). I'd got it into my head that you were lying to your advantage to control your wife. I take from your more recent post that I was entirely wrong about that, sorry.

But lets pick up on some of what you've said directly at me as quoted.

I said earlier that I do not intend to 'bash' you personally. I was challenging your views. There is a problem in your marriage and I think you are, possibly unintentionally, a major part of that problem. You started this thread by pinning it all on your young wife. As long as you keep the focus on her, you will not look truly at yourself. If you don't look at yourself, you will never solve the problem in your marriage. If some of my comments are harsh, and I know they are, well sorry but tough. I want to make you think. I want to shatter any illusions you might have. Even if I am wrong about everything, and I could well be, I don't know you or your wife, if I make you think even for a second, then I have helped.

As for that last sentence, well that just demonstrates further how you struggle to tell the difference between imagination and reality. I have indicated more than once on this post that I don't have all the information. I can only go on what YOU have written. I have not written anything to indicate that my wife ignores me, so you have no basis at all for assuming that. In fact, quite the contrary, I have indicated that I have a good marriage, and this is true, but that is relevant only insofar as it means I have experience to draw on when trying to help someone else experience the same success as I and my wife have.

But back onto you, I'll ask a simple question of you.

Do you intend to take on board the advice that I and others have given you, that you should be patient with your young wife, take time to earn her trust and feel at ease with you, listen to her, give her gentle encouragement etc, or is this entire thread a waste of time?

I ask this not out of spite, but because so far I and others have spent a lot of time trying to help. If you are looking for validation that you are right, then I think you already know which members will give you that and which ones wont. if you are looking for help and advice from a wide range of people with a wide range of experiences, I am happy to continue.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ShyEnglishman said:


> *You started this thread by pinning it all on your young wife. As long as you keep the focus on her, you will not look truly at yourself. If you don't look at yourself, you will never solve the problem in your marriage*. If some of my comments are harsh, and I know they are, well sorry but tough. I want to make you think. I want to shatter any illusions you might have. Even if I am wrong about everything, and I could well be, I don't know you or your wife, if I make you think even for a second, then I have helped.
> 
> As for that last sentence, *well that just demonstrates further how you struggle to tell the difference between imagination and reality. *.
> 
> ...


Bingo! 50 points to the quiet Brit!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Overseas I think you realize that you have done something very wrong. You are a young man and you cannot grow without making mistakes. 

But you must acknowledge them and make them right. Now that you know, no amount of justification can crowd that knowledge from your mind. Do the right thing. 

If you lash out when you are wrong and don't reflect, you will delay maturing and not accomplish the self assurance you need. 

The incidence with your BIL would never have happened if you had command of yourself. You would have garnered the respect of others had you acted maturely. 

There have been many post with excellent advice about how to approach your wife with understanding, empathy and regard for her feelings. If you approach her that way, she will trust you and be led by you if you learn control. 

If you hurt her and try to coerce her, she will not trust you. You can throw her away like a dirty dish rag. That would be as bad as beating her and you know that. Besides, if you don't learn now, you will make the same mistake with the next wife.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> This is fascinating.
> 
> Here we have men whose are suffering in marriages to wives who deceived them about their motives and feelings about the marital contract and sex. The wife got a husband, provider and father for kids. The husband got a ball and chain.
> 
> What is fascinating is that these deceived men are advising their adversary on how to close the deal on his deception.


Catherine, I don't want to sound insulting, but your posts here are not very helpful. They are full of over the top exaggerations and conspiracy theories, and probably personal projections. Frankly it's painful and embarrassing to read some of the things you write. It would be more useful if you at least gave quotes over what you find so objectionable and addressed those things specifically. It is certainly better than your generalizations and making things up out of whole cloth. 

If you include me among these "deceived men" I will only say that I am not really defending the husband's behavior here. Instead, I have defended him from accusations of doing things that he didn't even write! 



> He hid his agenda to get a porn sex stand-in


And this is a classic example of what I'm talking about. Nowhere did he say he wanted a porn star. Believe it or not, real people do oral sex too. It's not just in porn movies. The only thing he said was that she acts like a "robot" and doesn't react with any passion. And he wants to enjoy sex with her more than masturbation. That is certainly understandable. 

Moreover, he hid his religion from her, not his desire for sex. He would have the same desire even if he were a devout Muslim. 



> and they are advising him on how to continue the deception and to use her families traditional values to coerce her to preform for him in bed.


Who are "they"? Quotes, please. I don't see where anyone has defended that. 



> I am trying to figure out why they side with this deceiver so easily.


Constantly calling him a "deciever" (which is what many Christian Churches call Satan) isn't helpful either. He's a human being. His entire life isn't defined by the fact that he went through the motions and didn't tell his wife he turned away from his religion. 



> Their sense of right and wrong in relationships is conditional. In this case, the principal seems to be - if doing the right thing adversely effects the man's access to sex, then it's wrong, otherwise it's right.


I can't speak for others, but I think the "right thing" is to increase access to sex for *both* partners, or help them find some compromise that they can be happy with. I don't see this as a struggle between good and evil. 



Catherine602 said:


> Overseas ... If you lash out when you are wrong and don't reflect, you will delay maturing and not accomplish the self assurance you need.


In his defense, I can't blame him for "lashing out" when people (like you) wildly twist and exaggerate the things he mentions in his question, and paint him as the Devil incarnate.


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## tojoso (May 16, 2013)

PBear said:


> Sorry, dude. You had more red flags waving than a Chinese parade, and you still married her. Your options are limited.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed unfortunately.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Theseus said:


> And this is a classic example of what I'm talking about. Nowhere did he say he wanted a porn star. Believe it or not, real people do oral sex too. It's not just in porn movies. The only thing he said was that she acts like a "robot" and doesn't react with any passion. And he wants to enjoy sex with her more than masturbation. That is certainly understandable.
> 
> Moreover, he hid his religion from her, not his desire for sex. He would have the same desire even if he were a devout Muslim.


Regarding the porn thing. I think that some are latching onto that particular thing because he DID say he tried to watch it with her, but that made her throw up (I believe those were the words he used?) My only concern here is that he DID know she was devout, conservative. And I wonder why he would even think she'd be open to that particular thing, knowing how devout she is.

As for the positions, and oral sex, etc. Well, we all knnwo that there are some who have hangups on oral. It seems the OP's wife is one of those women who does. I can't say that she will EVER want to do it, or have it done, but she IS only 19. When I was 19, I had never given nor recieved oral sex. That never happened until I was 23, with my husband. Even then, it wasn't an immediate thing. It took many months before I was comfortable with it. And this very well could happen with the OP's wife... IF he is patient about it. As for the positions... truly, the only thing I can think of is that she is not turned on enough before penetration...and yes, Overseas, that WILL hurt, in any position, if not properly lubed. That doesn't mean to go out and buy a bottle of lube though! Just pay a bit more attention to her body, MAKE SURE she is ready. And, even then, it could very well be that she just doesn't produce enough natural lubrication. If sex is still painful for her, even after taking time to be sure there is enough lubrication, get her to see a doctor. 

Look, I know, Overseas, that a lot have jumped on you here. Even you must admit that what you did was deceptive. You pretended to be something you are not, to marry her. You broke her trust, in that aspect. And, having broken her trust, it's going to take time to regain it. Now, I am speaking from the Western perspective (as has been pointed out by another poster), so I see religious beliefs as a personal choice. Well, it is, regardless, just you can't be "open" about it in some locations. But I digress. Don't lie to her about your beliefs. She knows, by now, so don't hide it. But now, work on rebuilding your trust, however you can. Only this time, DON'T lie to her about yourself. It will only push her further away.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

CuddleBug, I suggest you take more time to study the reality versus relying on news. There are many parts of the world where any difference is cause for a massacre. 

The Baha'i prosecution in Iran is reality, and as a result Baha'is are fairly easily guaranteed to be granted asylum most anywhere in the world. Christians, not as much. I'm not saying that life is rosy, but we're not talking Krystalnacht either.

They do not have our freedom of religion, or freedom from religion, that we enjoy, but for the most part it's not a free for all either. I have Christian friends from several Islamic countries (Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt) and things are relatively normal, as normal as they can be at least.

It's a crazy world but if you're living in many of those counties religion is the least of your problems. My in laws are mixed faith (one Muslim and one non) and the kids went all over the chart, from Muslim to non Muslim to N/A (my wife). The Muslim one gets to deal with the authorities  but for them it's a practical issue rather than screaming about injustice. 

Compared to our reality, nearly everyone there is prosecuted in one form or another if they refuse to play by the usually arbitrary rules unless they can work around them. I just finished reading the book about the two young iranian Christian women who spent 9 months in prison for being Christians. Well, not quite, but i wont spoil the plot, so my suggestion is to dig deeper. It's all a big game of power, and the only rule seems to match the old joke about outrunning the bear. To survive, you need to outrun the other guy, not the bear.

Since we're grossly out of topic i will leave it at that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Theseus said:


> Catherine, I don't want to sound insulting, but your posts here are not very helpful. They are full of over the top exaggerations and conspiracy theories, and probably personal projections. Frankly it's painful and embarrassing to read some of the things you write. It would be more useful if you at least gave quotes over what you find so objectionable and addressed those things specifically. It is certainly better than your generalizations and making things up out of whole cloth.
> 
> If you include me among these "deceived men" I will only say that I am not really defending the husband's behavior here. Instead, I have defended him from accusations of doing things that he didn't even write!
> 
> ...


Please don't burden yourself with any embarrassment for me, if you have any to spare that is. 

Is it not enough that you disagree? Have enough confidence in your opinions to allow them to stand without pejoratives. 

I don't think he needs defending, he seems able to handle himself. If he is angry, he is allowed. But I am surprised you completely missed my point about the way he handled his anger. Both to the posters here and to his BIL.

Lashing out when angered gives control to the person who makes you angry. The smart move is to cool down, reflect and then respond.

It is better to control yourself than be controlled by a person who provokes your to anger, no?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Overseas,

I don't know if you have left this thread or intend to come back...It seems like you have left and that is unfortunate because I just noticed this....



Overseas said:


> How about if her Father didn't approve me as a Husband and she married a REAL MUSLIM GUY who would follow his so-called God quote rather than being in a non-eastern forum looking for liberated advises that respect woman rights?


You have come to a western forum that has a wide, though not as wide as we'd like, belief in equal rights, and that does say a lot about where your heart is as you approach this problem.

I just wanted to acknowledge that. You are trying to do what's right by your wife and it's hard for me to keep that in mind.


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