# OK...is it time for the 180



## HusbandInPain (Nov 8, 2011)

Right then.

So I know my wife is now adhering to NC. I have complete access to all phones, email accounts, FB accounts etc. I am 99% sure that she is telling the truth about NC. I can't be 100% because I just cannot believe what she is saying at the moment as she has already lied about NC once. But she tells me she loves me, and cuddles me all night in bed. So she's on board. She's trying to hold my hand all the time as I am craving attention, and doing little things like making sure she always says nice things about me on FB etc. 

But she's not completely behind the marriage. She says she is, but these are words. Her actions say different. She'll say she's too busy to just call me all the time, but if I freak out she suddenly finds the time - I go up in her priorities. She never raises any discussion about us - it's always down to me, and usually ends up in either an argument because I feel her getting defensive, or just silence. She will kiss me, but if try to initiate love making she just says she can't and has "barriers up" because she is hurt herself. She says she still finds me attractive, but is so messed up at the moment. She will never initiate a conversation about the affair, my feelings or her feelings.

When we are around other people she tres to act completely normally, and succeeds, whereas I am left feeling lonely, ad angry because she feels to be absolutely fine whilst I am left shattered. If I complain, she starts to show me more attention, but again it's only when I raise the priority.

I am not getting the support I need. She is certainly not "heavy lifting". She says she struggles to remember the good things sometimes, because when she looks at me, all she sees is pain and suffering. She wants the marriage to work and says she is trying but in her view just keeps keeps getting it wrong. In my view just hasn't stepped up to the plate. for those who haven't read my other posts this is following a 1 month EA/PA, with the initial no contact agreement broken, and a no contact forced last Tuesday after an ultimatum.

so WTF is going on. Is this Limbo? Is this fog? Is this normal? Is it 180 time?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Probably time. Your wife is having a pity party. But remember, the 180 is for you, you will be detaching emotionally from her. You will be thinking about you and your children. Don't be surprised if this changes her attitude.


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## Mindful Coach (Sep 15, 2011)

I know you are hurt about the affair, but everything you are talking about is her. What are YOU doing? 

Sure, she's the one that needs to do heavy lifting, but what lead to the affair to begin with? Chances are she wants the marriage to work, but she hasn't been getting her needs met for so long, that she broke down and had an affair. It's not an excuse and she shouldn't have done it, but if her needs were being met in your marriage, she may not have made such a horrible choice in the first place. So, she has to do things, but so do you. Sitting back and waiting for her to do all this heavy lifting, while you do nothing but monitor her is not going to save your marriage.


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## HusbandInPain (Nov 8, 2011)

Mindful Coach said:


> I know you are hurt about the affair, but everything you are talking about is her. What are YOU doing?
> 
> Sure, she's the one that needs to do heavy lifting, but what lead to the affair to begin with? Chances are she wants the marriage to work, but she hasn't been getting her needs met for so long, that she broke down and had an affair. It's not an excuse and she shouldn't have done it, but if her needs were being met in your marriage, she may not have made such a horrible choice in the first place. So, she has to do things, but so do you. Sitting back and waiting for her to do all this heavy lifting, while you do nothing but monitor her is not going to save your marriage.


i have arranged Marriage counselling. I have arranged individual counselling for both of us. I have reorganised my working life so that I can spend more time with her. i have rearranged my personal life to direct more free time towards us rather than me. I have admitted that our marriage had issues that we were both guilty of, and elements that would need to be addressed on both sides. I have steered towards useful resources, and shown her that I am still the loving , caring man I was BEFORE she had the affair. I have also given her a second chance, after I discovered her, and then a 3rd chance after I caught her calling the OM to warn him about the NC letter and even calling him to tell him how OUR Marriage counselling went. I have held HER at night when she cries, I have reassured her constantly that I love her. Meanwhile I have been personally melting down with little support of my own. What she does is try to carry on as normal. Well, things arn't normal.

I think I've done my share, to be honest. I'm ready to share the load.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Mindful Coach said:


> I know you are hurt about the affair, but everything you are talking about is her. What are YOU doing?
> 
> Sure, she's the one that needs to do heavy lifting, but what lead to the affair to begin with? Chances are she wants the marriage to work, but she hasn't been getting her needs met for so long, that she broke down and had an affair. It's not an excuse and she shouldn't have done it, but if her needs were being met in your marriage, she may not have made such a horrible choice in the first place. So, she has to do things, but so do you. Sitting back and waiting for her to do all this heavy lifting, while you do nothing but monitor her is not going to save your marriage.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

What are you reading? Love Busters, His Needs Her Needs, Five Love Languages? Its great you have achieved no contact but you have to move forward. This isn't going to happen overnight.. Go to Mens clubhouse section and read the threads at the top of the page. She has to reconnect and this takes time. also clik on the link below and read through Plan a Plan B. 

Too early for 180 but thats just MO.


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## Patricia B. Pina (Nov 22, 2011)

I think you should seek advice from a lawyer, not from this forum.


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## Mindful Coach (Sep 15, 2011)

The counseling is awesome. It sounds as if she's not where you want her to be yet, but also that she is making efforts of her own. Perhaps there is something you need that you haven't been able to communicate with her yet and maybe her efforts aren't speaking as clearly to you as she would hope they would. That's where the counseling will help a lot. If you feel you are doing everything you can, and if you do see some effort from her (The cuddling, words, actions even small ones...) then I would say hang in there, it's just going to take some time.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Tracy,

It would be unreasonable to expect the hurt one to go out of his way "fixing" the relationship. Maybe when the pain subsides. And the one in the wrong has to do all humanly possible for it. That's why heavy lifting is *heavy*.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

HusbandInPain said:


> She will kiss me, *but if try to initiate love making she just says she can't and has "barriers up" because she is hurt herself.* She says she still finds me attractive, but is so messed up at the moment. She will never initiate a conversation about the affair, my feelings or her feelings.



Allow me to be blunt. She cant make love with you because she's being loyal to the OM, her lover.

She'll do what she needs to do, but not sex.

Marriage counseling is a waste of time and money. Both spouses need to want the marriage to survive; your wife has no real intention for now.

She's smart enough to keep you hanging in there while she plays her own game.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't think it's 180 time, but you do need to change gears.

Stop pursuing her and stop being so ready to comfort her. You are approaching this like you need to help her feel better about her cheatng. That's the wrong goal, she actually needs to feel the pan and go through it otherwise she will do it again. What you need to be dong is setting the boundaries that you will accept her back into the marriage with. She trashed the marriage, and it must now be remade into a new different marriage.

Intimacy is critical here. Her opening herself up to you shows that she is actually returning to the marriage and accepting you as her husband and mate. Her rejecting you places you back into the pool of males that she knows in her life, but it excludes you from the one special place reserved for her mate.

When she had the PA, she chose to replace you with the OM in her physical mate role and emotional mate role. 

For the affair to be over, she must return you to the physical and emotional role of her mate. Until she does this, she is still giving herself to the OM even if she isn't engaging him in person, she is still keeping from you what is his.

My advice is to tell her that if she is back in the marriage, then she must also be intimate. Your not forcing her, you are telling her that if she will not return to the marriage bed, three she is keeping the affair and the OMs wedge in the marriage in place,.

If she refuses, then honestly it's a false R. She isn't returning to the marriage, she's just not actually contacting him.

Sadly, given her history, I think this is what's going on. She is using you as something to mske her feel better as she pines for her lover, but she won't physically join with you because that belongs to him, not you.

If you want the R to actually work out, call her on this. Tell her, just like you will not accept her continuing the affair by contacting him, you will not allow her to continue the affair by rejecting you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HusbandInPain (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm struggling with that. It reads an awful lot like I'm blackmailing my wife into sex.


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## madwoman (Oct 20, 2011)

She has detached from you. Guilting her into sex is a really bad idea. This has nothing to do with R. It's manipulation. It's needy. 

Stop doing that. It's like a dog wizzing on a fireplug. I don't think the 180 is uncalled for here. She either wants you or she doesn't, but you won't help her decide if you guilt her into it. 

This is your chance to either build a better relationship, or move on. But, it's not just your choice. It takes two. 

I have never cheated. I don't know what it's like to cheat, so I don't know her motivations. I do know I want a partner who wholeheartedly wants to be with me out of love and committment, not guilt and shame.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

HusbandInPain said:


> I'm struggling with that. It reads an awful lot like I'm blackmailing my wife into sex.


Here's the thing, do not blackmail her. You are not threatening her. You are not trading X for sex.

However you are saying "sex is a core and expected part of a marriage and relationship. Clearly you think ths too snce you included sex in your affair."

Bottom line: I will knw you are actually working on R when you also include sex in what we are working on. The affair took away: trust, emotional connection, and sex. The affair is still a wedge in this marriage until all three have returned. By taking sex off the table, you how that you are not serious about R. Instead, you have agreed to stop meeting him on your terms, but not to R."

Look at it this way: nice guys feel guilty about pestering their wives for sex, and feel that they haven't measured up when they don't get it. AND they don't get it.

Alpha males are confident that sex is on the table and as reasonable to expect and is having conversation and eating diner with their chosen mate. AND they get sex, along with women pursuing them for it.

Your letting her define R on her terms completely and o let her turn tou into a Nice-guy in the process. You might live together again, but you won't be in a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

I find myself really relating to your post.

The DS has done what is expected and is trying to work on R.

What is the timetable for things to be "normal" or like they were.

I have heard that from the perspective of the BS take the time you want this take and multiply it by a factor of 10

The heavy lifting you have to do is limbo not knowing exactly how long this will take...

You have to accept the uncertainty if working on R and focus on yourself...

I think over time this will have a positive effect on your marriage. Not sure what the timetable is.

I agree with the comments above that instead of focusing on how to be a better husband, focus on how to be a better/happier person

I find a couple of the comments above (affair not over, loyal to OM...) harsh.

I think its very reasonable for BS to expect DS to do a lot of lifting etc. but reality is the situation is not fair.

DS does not want to be treated like a dog getting its nose rubbed in **** everyday (they deserve it but they don't this)

If all the time the air is heavy and they are made to feel guilty this won't be more appealing to them than what they had with OM

And I don't think its a math problem that can be solved with steps and timetables, everyone is different.

So I would say focus on 180 but not as a strategy or tactic but as a lifestyle change and hopefully after a while (probably much longer than you want) things will turn around.

A very good female friend of mine was a victim of infidelity and she talked to a lot of people who went through it and found with the ones that had success these were the key elements i.e. letting go, focusing on yourself etc.

My 2 cents

LTH


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## Sindo (Oct 29, 2011)

madwoman said:


> She has detached from you. Guilting her into sex is a really bad idea. This has nothing to do with R. It's manipulation. It's needy.


:iagree:

I think what is required here is patience. It has been less than a month since she cheated. She is still in the fog. 

Whatever decision you make, you need to stick to it. Whatever you do, it needs to be done consistently. Set yourself a definite time period, maybe two or three months, and only then re-evaluate.

If you decide to do the 180, see it through. Don't flake out at the first sign of progress.

If you decide against the 180, don't start second-guessing yourself in a weeks time.


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## HusbandInPain (Nov 8, 2011)

good advice guys, thank you.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> I don't think it's 180 time, but you do need to change gears.
> 
> Stop pursuing her and stop being so ready to comfort her. You are approaching this like you need to help her feel better about her cheatng. That's the wrong goal, she actually needs to feel the pan and go through it otherwise she will do it again. What you need to be dong is setting the boundaries that you will accept her back into the marriage with. She trashed the marriage, and it must now be remade into a new different marriage.
> 
> ...


I think that's very insightful.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

HusbandInPain, I wouldn’t look to your wife to help heal your wounds. At least not yet because her rejection will just deepen the wounds. Same with sex. Just don’t go there as yet because her constant rejection will just keep on hurting you.

If I was you I’d do two things. First off I’d get into the 180 right away, I wouldn’t hesitate. Secondly I think you need to find ways to help heal yourself. These times can be a great learning period. You’ve been wounded, not physically but certainly emotionally, these things affect our heart, soul and spirit. So look to ways to heal yourself. I studied Buddhism, spent time in churches for private prayer and meditating, took walks in the countryside and treated myself to various things. The overall goal is to massively reduce your dependency on your wife and to be much more of a strong individual. And to that latter end learn about, study and implement some personal boundaries.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

HusbandInPain said:


> She will kiss me, but if try to initiate love making she just says she can't and has "barriers up" because she is hurt herself.


Wow, she is telling you to your face that "she is hurt herself" because she still pines for her lover. She will not have sex with you because that would make her unfaithful to the OM. You are not in R, you are in denial. You are not first in her heart and from your recent posts you seem to know it. It is time for you to leave. Not because she will not have sex with you, but because she does not want to have sex with you. 

I am so sorry that this has happened to you. I was wishing for a happy ending. You have done all the heavy lifting that she should be doing. You have made it too easy for her to cheat again since there have been no real consequences for her betrayal. Maybe before the divorce is final she will want to come back to you for real. Maybe she will want to earn you back. Maybe she will be willing to do the heavy lifting needed for you to heal. Unless that happens you need to leave. So far it has been all about her. You need to recognize that your needs matter too.


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## bangun (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm sorry if not right. For me: 

Marriage are physical and soul. (in sex there are alot of soul and physical, grope and passion, touch and happy) just say it to her for R.

Her decision to cheat is my ticket but love is unbelievable.
In my view there are three change for divorce and reconsiliantion. There is no the fourt.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Let me highlight the relevant things I found in your post.



HusbandInPain said:


> Right then.
> 
> So I know my wife is now adhering to NC. I have complete access to all phones, email accounts, FB accounts etc. I am 99% sure that she is telling the truth about NC. I can't be 100% because *I just cannot believe what she is saying at the moment as she has already lied about NC once*. But she tells me she loves me, and cuddles me all night in bed. So she's on board. *She's trying to hold my hand all the time as I am craving attention*, and doing little things like making sure she always says nice things about me on FB etc.
> 
> But she's not completely behind the marriage. She says she is, but these are words. Her actions say different. She'll say she's too busy to just call me all the time, *but if I freak out she suddenly finds the time - I go up in her priorities*. She never raises any discussion about us - it's always down to me, and usually ends up in either an argument because I feel her getting defensive, or just silence. She will kiss me, but if try to initiate love making she just says she can't and has "barriers up" because she is hurt herself. She says she still finds me attractive, but is so messed up at the moment. She will never initiate a conversation about the affair, my feelings or her feelings.


You're being *very needy*, which is not attractive at all, not one bit. You need to stop that. Because you're being so needy, you need to do the 180. The 180 is not to manipulate her, it's an empowerment tool to help you gain strength to move on with her or without her. You may have some codependency issues as well. Because of your neediness, she's going to continue to push you away.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

aug said:


> Allow me to be blunt. She cant make love with you because she's being loyal to the OM, her lover.
> 
> She'll do what she needs to do, but not sex.
> 
> ...


I agree, she is missing the OM and is "settling" now. It's not going to get better with the status quo, if anything she may be planning on leaving. 

What have been the negative consequences? Acting needy and trying to be a better husband? That sounds like a reward to me.

She has to do 110% of the work since SHE broke it. You are doing her a favor even allowing her in your presence. She should be proactively trying to make up for what she has done, not pacifying you when you whine about it.

She isn't going to change until you change in a way that she isn't going to like. When you 180 and start to cut her out of her life she is going to beg for you to go back to your old pathetic self. Right now she feels like she can control you, take that away and see how she reacts then.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Let throw out a warning here on what may come to pass:

In time she may get over the OM and stop yearning for him as she does now. In time she even let you in a little and begin sex again. But on your current course where you are letting her off and not engage fully in the marriage, she will in time find another guy who catches her eye and she will have a new OM.

This is why at this time, right now, you need to be demanding that she works and returns to the marriage -fully. It needs to be something she has to earn, something that she has too feel she is part of. That will help her value it and you. And the next time an OM is around, it will help her turn him down and come home.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Maybe the reason why she hasn't engaged in sex with you is because sex is a trigger of when she and the OM had sex.

Even if she were to initiate sex with you, are you sure you are ready for it? Can you transcend those mental images/video of her having sex with the OM?

The sex our wives (ex-wives) had with the OM is an important deal breaker for many of us betrayed husbands. It was for me anyway.

The answer is important because it can tell you whether your marriage is salvageable or not.


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