# Wife in a midlife crisis and acting crazy



## Norba_racer

Hello all,

This is my first post and have been going through this hell for about two months, but it has gotten real bad the last month. We have been married for 11 years and together for 19 with two girls 8 and 6. She turns 40 this month and has blamed me for all her misery. She has started avoiding our kids too. She said it is just a phase with the kids, but not sure about us (lmbnilwm). She has stayed out all night several times in the last two weeks and I have found 550 text between her and our 24 yr old tennis instructor. Some of the text have been at 1, 2, and 3 am. She says he is only a friend and nothing has ever happened other than mild flirting. I don't have proof, but she has shown all the signs of cheating (lost wt, new undies, new younger clothes, shaved). She is a very attactive woman so I can see the tennis guy being attracted to her even though she is 16 years older. He has also been texting her tennis girlfriends too (all in their 40s), but I don't know if it is the same volume of text. Very weird to me. 
I confronted him at the courts and he denied that they fooled around or anything. After that he has not contacted her except breifly about tennis (according to her). He even cancelled their last lesson. 
More background: she starting being distant just before Xmas last year 2012. Staying out shopping late, any chance to leave she would. Jan 8th she said she needed space and started going out with her friends more drinking and smoking pot. She never smoked pot the last 10 years. She bought a new Audi that I didn't want her to get. Says she never wanted kids and that I am drowning her.
She has threatened to leave, but never does. I don't say ILU or cry and beg. I did take off for a couple days and she was nice when I was gone, but was a real ***** before I confronted the tennis boy. I drew up divorce papers to give her the out and predated the separation for 1 year to make it a quick break. She was a little shocked when I showed her the papers. She has also given the option of working it out for 8 more weeks and then reevaluate a divorce. Live in the same house or for her to move into a small apartment to find herself. I have started playing hardball more and not sure what I should do next. Although she is not willing to give me access to her cell phone so I build some trust in what she says. Says I am tring to control her and I shouldn't care so much.

Would it better for her to leave during the 8 weeks or to stay in the house? Valentines day is coming up as well as her birthday. What do I do for her if anything? I wanted to give her surprise party, but not sure about it now. I want her to stay with me and kids in hopes that she will snap out of her fog after her BDay. Any ideas on my next steps?

Oh I have been making changes too. Lost 20 pounds, been working out, trying to look nice, blah blah blah

Sorry about making this a long post, but I wanted to give some details.


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## Jasel

Keep playing hardball, file for divorce, don't do anything for her B-day or valentines, and kick her out if possible. Follow this formula until she offers to do the heavy lifting required to work on your marriage. Don't bring up reconciliation or "working on the marriage" to her. That kind of talk will just drive her away even further. You need to show her that you can live/move on without her. And if she isn't interested, you've already started the process of moving on anyway. You can't "nice" your wife out of that type of behavior nor should you try.

But that's just my opinion.


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## Shadow_Nirvana

First of all, sorry you are here. 

Your approach with the tennis instructor is not what I would have done, but it is something that can work in some instances. But refrain from doing it again because if he had talked to your wife about what you had done, it would have made you seem as pathetic and would lower your class.

I would refrain from getting her a present on Valentine's Day. She told you she's not in love with you, therefore she isn't your valentine and you aren't her valentine either.

She's acting like she wants out of the marriage. So, screw the birthday too.

Do not take crap her. You didn't rape her and held her hostage when she gave birth to your children. Meaning she is just trying to get rid of her anxiety and pain by blameshifting.(She may not have gotten what she wanted in marriage but it's ALL YOUR FAULT.-,n her mind, of course.-)

It's great that you are working on yourself. It will also be better if you were to get complimented from the opposite sex, better yet in front of your wife.

Read Married Man Sex Life Primer. Although you seem to have a hang of it already, it can give a polish to your Married Game.

I don't have that much experience in MLC(I think it's a bit bullcrap) but it is said that it generally lasts for 2 years so prepare for a bumpy road. I will certainly be keeping an eye on your thread.


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## Norba_racer

Thanks Jasel. Filing for divorce is a big step. I can get the ball rolling on it, but can't help to be a little nervous about it.


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## Norba_racer

Thanks for comment shadow. 2 years is a long time to put up with this crap. Although, she hasn't gone out this week and says she is done going out for awhile. Thanks for the reading tip. I find reading about this helps. She seems to go through bipolar spells or depression, but says she feels upbeat. BS in my mind.


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## alte Dame

She has all the signs of a wife who is cheating or wants to cheat. I think you should kick her out and make motions toward a divorce. She's not being a decent wife to you & it sounds like she is failing in her role as mother. There are lots of threads here about wives who suddenly start partying with gfs and accuse their husbands of stifling them. Pretty much always, there is a particular man that they have in sight that they are or will be cheating with.


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## EleGirl

Read the book "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harely. 

She most likely has cheated on you. Maybe the boy toy dumped her and that's why she's not going out for a while. Or maybe the divorce papers scared her.


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## KeepLoveGrowing

What do YOU want? Do you want this marriage to work? If so, then I would say fight for it, but only as hard as she is willing to. Your giving it 8 weeks.. but how are you judging these 8 weeks? Are you trying new things? Take her out on a few spontaneous dates. Sounds like she is bored and trying to rediscover some of the fun things about being young. Instead of standing on the side lines and getting left behind, try doing it with her. Take her out for silly dates, etc. Pretend you're just dating again. If she wants to make it work then she will likely meet you half way.

If you're not sure you do want it to work out.. Well then send her packing and file for divorce - no sense in waiting 8 weeks if the decision is already made for both of you.


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## dgtal

Dont let her move to an apartment. What she will find there you wont like it instead she will find herself in different sex positions with the OM or maybe OM's. Regarding the POS tennis instructor tell him you will shove his raquet in his axx if he doesnt back off
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dgtal

in regards to her MLC, you have to accept it (less the OM). 2 years? no way, it will take longer, maybe will never get out of MLC. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with looking young and beautiful. The destructive part of MLC is that impulsive surge to get attention from other(s) men.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel

KeepLoveGrowing said:


> What do YOU want? Do you want this marriage to work? If so, then I would say fight for it, but only as hard as she is willing to. Your giving it 8 weeks.. but how are you judging these 8 weeks? Are you trying new things? Take her out on a few spontaneous dates. Sounds like she is bored and trying to rediscover some of the fun things about being young. Instead of standing on the side lines and getting left behind, try doing it with her. Take her out for silly dates, etc. Pretend you're just dating again. If she wants to make it work then she will likely meet you half way.
> 
> If you're not sure you do want it to work out.. Well then send her packing and file for divorce - no sense in waiting 8 weeks if the decision is already made for both of you.


No offense but that is bad advice. If she's having an affair or cheating on him the last thing he needs to do is reward her bad behavior and bring on the romance. This pretty much never works and more often than not drives cheating women off even further.

Your advice is perfect for if she decides to work on the marriage, reconcile, shows remorse, and through her actions that she's willing to do the heavy lifting to help repair the marriage and the damage she's caused.

But while she's in the fog of her current mentality and running around like an immature teenager? She needs to realize there are consequences for her current behavior and she can't expect her husband to passively sit by and be her safety net in case she changes her mind. 

Which is why I'm for filing for divorce ASAP or at least kicking them out. The longer you let this type of behavior go on without dealing with it directly, the harder it is to get your spouse to snap out of it. If you even can.


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## Norba_racer

KeepLoveGrowing said:


> What do YOU want? Do you want this marriage to work? If so, then I would say fight for it, but only as hard as she is willing to. Your giving it 8 weeks.. but how are you judging these 8 weeks? Are you trying new things? Take her out on a few spontaneous dates. Sounds like she is bored and trying to rediscover some of the fun things about being young. Instead of standing on the side lines and getting left behind, try doing it with her. Take her out for silly dates, etc. Pretend you're just dating again. If she wants to make it work then she will likely meet you half way.
> 
> If you're not sure you do want it to work out.. Well then send her packing and file for divorce - no sense in waiting 8 weeks if the decision is already made for both of you.


I do want it to work, but not sure how to get her to go somewhere with me. She has a cold at the moment too so that might be partly why she is staying in. We have talked alot the last couple of days. She said she doesn't know about us and would like to get an apt on her own for awhile so she can learn to be independant and clear her head. I hope letting her go and be on her own for awhile might help? 

Her whole personality changed almost overnight. Not the same person she was 3 months ago. Almost like a mental illness. WE live in a really nice house and both have great high paying jobs. We have just started going to a MC and her solo visit is Monday. Then we come back together the following week.

Norba


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## jfv

In a situation like this you cannot let her be on her own for a while without filing for divorce. 

She needs to see very clearly that there are consequences for single behavior while she is married to you. If she gets her own place while you wait for her you will lose her. 

Even worse, she might come back to you but only after she's been ridden by every 20 something male with a cougar fetish. Sorry for that visual, but this is how you need to think about what is happenning because this is the reality. 

Did your vows make an allowance for her to have other men inside of her until she got bored and came back to you. Why would you be okay with sharing your wife for even a second.? And why would you want her back after you have shared her? Unwillingly of course.

She has unilaterally changed the rules for this marriage. Void it... or at least threaten to.


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## Anon Pink

Something doesn't add up here.

So for the past 9years she's been a SAHM with two kids? Or am I just assuming due to the Tennis Instructor? Why does a SAHM with two kids all of a sudden not want to be around them? There is something more here that you're either not aware of, or left out.

Tell me more about her wanting to distance herself from her kids. What kind of mother has she been prior to this?


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## Shaggy

She's cheating, that much is plainly obvious.

You need to put a couple of voice activated recorders around where she likely to be with this guy.

I'm betting they are already having sex, hence the shaving and undies. They clearly aren't for you.

Talk to his boss at the club.


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## Norba_racer

Anon: She has worked full time and has been a very good mother up till now. Says she took care of them for 8 years now it is my turn. She is now quick to snap at them and never did that before. I too am starting to think something is going on like perimenopause with a little midlife crisis mixed in. After reading about perimenopause it fits her 100%. She now hates for me to touch her, makes her feel uncomfortable. We have not had sex in 3 months. I have asked her to get her hormones checked but she doesn't.

Shag: I have made it uncomfortable for him so I don't think he will continue. I can only hope that I got in the middle in time. She has not admitted to anything, except being inappropriate talking to a 24 yr old. She has been a mental case the last month and very well could've slept with him. I will never know one way or the other. She has never fooled around before or even flirted with other men. Like I said earlier she a very attractive woman and am sure other men notice her, but she never has cheated before. She has been talking about implants and has a couple consulting appointments coming up. Her good friend has implants and she wants to do the same. Why? She says to feel better about her self image. Says when she looks in the mirror she sees an old woman......she looks 30. 

I don't know if her willing to go to MC is all for show or she really wants to see if we can work it out. If she was having an affair why would she make the appointments for the MC? Although, she isn't ready to do heavy lifting for our relationship. Like not giving me access to her phone.

Norba


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## Cubby

She wants new implants? Norba racer, forget about perimenopause, midlife crisis, her self image, etc. This is all about cheating. She's experienced sex with another man (or many others?) and SHE LIKES IT. Her new exciting life trumps her old boring life with you and her children. New implants will make it even more exciting.

The separation and marriage counseling are only ways to keep you, her meal ticket, pacified. If she admitted to an ongoing affair then she fears you might do something drastic like, oh I don't know...file for divorce?


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## Aunt Ava

Without access to her phone and all the text messages flying between them you really don't know for certain what you are dealing with. At the very least it's an emotional affair, but it really sounds like its gone physical. 

Turning 40, acting single, sexy undies, shaving when she didn't before. Staying out for several nights....married women don't have sleepovers. She's all but wearing a sign that's says I'm available. 

550 text messages with the tennis boy? Single guys don't give that much attention to females unless they are getting something in return, and I don't mean warm fuzzies. 

How are your children handling the new mommy? I just can't fathom her behavior towards her 6 and 8 year old daughters. By avoiding them she is really setting them up for serious emotional issues in the future. Please consider counselling for them. 

It takes two to save a marriage, and she needs to be completely transparent with you. That means handing over email passwords, phone passwords etc. I doubt she's willing to give you that. 

Sometimes, in order to save a marriage you have to be willing to lose it. Next time she complains you are controlling her explain the you are trying to protect the marriage. She is in complete control of her behavior, and you have the option to leave if you disagree with it. You have been strong so far. 

What is she really saying when she says "you shouldn't care so much"? I mean she sounds like she spouting fog babble, but what's your take?


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## Norba_racer

Ava: Not sure what she means by don't care so much. 

Tonight she said she wants to follow through with a quick divorce. I agreed to give her that and walked out. She followed me around the house asking if I was Ok. I said yes that I had been expecting her to say that. She left and got a hotel room around the corner. She called me again and ask me to call her if I need to talk. I didn't call her back. At this point I am checking out. Sounded like she is having 2nd thoughts, says lets sleep on it and talk again tomorrow morning. I am done talking to her. F___k it. Never thought I would be divorced at 45. Hurts like hell and I can't help to feel like a failure.

N


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## ComicBookLady

I am sorry you're going through this 

First of all, what your wife is initiating with the instructor is WRONG of her. There is no reason in the world, nothing you could do to her, that would make that okay.

Secondly, just to maybe help clarify, if a woman starts down the path to an affair, it's often to get something from another man that her husband denies her EMOTIONALLY. Again, it's not RIGHT, but this could be why, and may help your marriage if things haven't progressed to far, and you're willing to forgive the texting.

_If_ you want to save the marriage, sit down with her and OBJECTIVELY listen to all she has to say. (did I say "objectively" loud enough?  ) Find out from _her_ what is missing in your marriage, and work together to fix the issue (not argue with her about it; her needs matter in the marriage just as yours matter) And in these moments, all past issues and resentments need to be off the table, including the texting. This needs to be a path forward sans difficulties.

Of course her actions are not good, but if you love her, you need to help pull her through this phase she's in. Of course she needs to do work on her side as well, but you can do a lot also.

On the topic of Valentine's and B-Day, it sounds like you honestly still want to make it work, but are unsure on how to fix it all yet. She hasn't gone TOO far down the wrong path yet (though it's up to you on what's forgivable). If there's any hope at all for your mariage in your heart, I would show her you love her on both days. I feel like doing otherwise than following your heart would be pride keeping you from doing what is needed. Also, from her side, not receiving love on those days is a surefire signal for her that you DON'T want things to work.

I hope all goes well for you, and I'm very very sorry you're going through so much.


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## alphabravo

Doesn't anyone read any more? 

The midlife crisis is text book. There is so much data on this going back to the 30's! Tons of books.

The only way to get a spouse back during a mid-life is to not hunt them down and harass them like a rat ( which is what you are doing).

She needs space. Tons of it. Give her the biggest leash of her life because at some point, she is going to hang herself with it ( not in a literal sense, just that no midlife crisis ends on a positive note of self discovery).

You love her right? So if you love her, then why can't you love the new her? Can't you see she is hurting inside and has been trying to fill that gap with you for many many years and it just hasn't worked. You already had your chance so give her this chance.

If your love is solid, she needs about 6-9 months to clear this up. You are lucky she's not a guy....they need 9-16 months to clear it up.


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## the guy

You are not a failure. You are getting tortured by a messed up chick and it happens to the best of us.
Stay the course, she will continue to second guess her self, but util she stops her GNO and ONS's she will be in the fog.
Sorry man it sucks but in my experience your old lady is screwing around with some strange and no matter hwo hard you try she will have those young guys to fill her voids.

This isn't about some tennis instructor....this is about any and all guys that a twenty something and show her attention.

My point is her current/ new beahvior is not about you, uts about her and how she handles her own issues. She is making unhealthy choices. She is making dicision that are only short term relief for her current state.

So my man, never ever think you are at fault.....you are not failing....she is...she is failing to make healthy choice that will give her logn term satisfaction.

Her current addiction is giving her short term satisfaction. You can not fight this addiction to young guys, but you can show her the consequences for her disicions to have this unhealthy life style.

Keep up the tough love, its all you got to keep her second guessing her self. As long as the reality of her choices keep hitting her in the face she will continue to think twice.


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## the guy

alphabravo said:


> Doesn't anyone read any more?
> 
> The midlife crisis is text book. There is so much data on this going back to the 30's! Tons of books.
> 
> The only way to get a spouse back during a mid-life is to not hunt them down and harass them like a rat ( which is what you are doing).
> 
> She needs space. Tons of it. Give her the biggest leash of her life because at some point, she is going to hang herself with it ( not in a literal sense, just that no midlife crisis ends on a positive note of self discovery).
> 
> You love her right? So if you love her, then why can't you love the new her? Can't you see she is hurting inside and has been trying to fill that gap with you for many many years and it just hasn't worked. You already had your chance so give her this chance.
> 
> If your love is solid, she needs about 6-9 months to clear this up. You are lucky she's not a guy....they need 9-16 months to clear it up.


IDK about this, I agree don't hunt or harass, give them enough leash to hang them selves, but letting my chick bang strange for 6-9 month would be a deal breaker. Hell she might find a convict to fall in love with and now your kids a visiting mommy in the getto with her felon boyfriend... Just saying its possible.


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## Plan 9 from OS

alphabravo said:


> Doesn't anyone read any more?
> 
> The midlife crisis is text book. There is so much data on this going back to the 30's! Tons of books.
> 
> The only way to get a spouse back during a mid-life is to not hunt them down and harass them like a rat ( which is what you are doing).
> 
> She needs space. Tons of it. Give her the biggest leash of her life because at some point, she is going to hang herself with it ( not in a literal sense, just that no midlife crisis ends on a positive note of self discovery).
> 
> You love her right? So if you love her, then why can't you love the new her? Can't you see she is hurting inside and has been trying to fill that gap with you for many many years and it just hasn't worked. You already had your chance so give her this chance.
> 
> If your love is solid, she needs about 6-9 months to clear this up. You are lucky she's not a guy....they need 9-16 months to clear it up.


The midlife crisis...It's mostly crap IMHO. What I see is a woman that has not been satisfied with something going on in her life - whether it's a lack of attention from the OP, kids being bad all the time or something else - and she made a conscious decision to cheat on her spouse instead of communicate her feelings. Typical selfish behavior from a petulant child pretending to be an adult. 

OP, if you want the divorce, you have the opportunity to get the sole custody of the kids and may even be able to make the break without owing your WW anything. She says she doesn't want the kids, well get that in writing. It's up to you on what you want to do, but making a play for the kids, giving her the divorce papers like you have and working on you only while giving her little or no attention is the right thing to do to splash the cold water of reality in her face. 

What logical reason would the wife be shaving the vag for unless one of her BF's likes it? It's definitely not swimming season...


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## Toffer

Norba,

Her affair is not your fault. While you may share the responsibility of some of the probelems in the marriage, she's 100% responsible for the affair

I also believ that MLC is just an excuse for bad behavior


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## Norba_racer

Thanks for all the comments. The only thing I know how to do at this point is let her go. She has been looking at 1 bedroom apt.s and that might be a good idea just so I can't see her. She just keeps flipping back and forth. She called me this morning and asked if I could talk to her this afternoon. Should I not answer and return her call later or hear her out? Deep down I don't think she wants a divorce, but in her fog it would be the thing to do at this moment in time. 

I have minor surgery on the 15th of Feb and she said she would like to take care of me during recovery. What is all that about? My mom said she would be willing to come stay with me and I might take her up on that and tell wifey she is not needed. Any advise from MLC experts?

Everything I have read on MLC says to stay clear of them, don't argue, give them rope, don't hover, don't call, don't say I love you, don't cry in front of them, be nice with a smile and give it time. Am I off base here?

As far as the affair, I think I caught it in time and she is not texting anymore at all. I am sure it was at least an EA. So far she has been true to her word, but not willing to put any work into our marriage. Says she has checked out, but her actions don't show it as mentioned above. Could our marriage be over yes very easy, could our marriage workout not sure at this point.


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## Aunt Ava

alphabravo said:


> Doesn't anyone read any more?
> 
> The midlife crisis is text book. There is so much data on this going back to the 30's! Tons of books.
> 
> The only way to get a spouse back during a mid-life is to not hunt them down and harass them like a rat ( which is what you are doing).
> 
> She needs space. Tons of it. Give her the biggest leash of her life because at some point, she is going to hang herself with it ( not in a literal sense, just that no midlife crisis ends on a positive note of self discovery).
> 
> You love her right? So if you love her, then why can't you love the new her? Can't you see she is hurting inside and has been trying to fill that gap with you for many many years and it just hasn't worked. You already had your chance so give her this chance.
> 
> If your love is solid, she needs about 6-9 months to clear this up. You are lucky she's not a guy....they need 9-16 months to clear it up.


She is married, as such she should honor her vows. She is acting single, and is apparently breaking her vows, so he is right to draw a line in the sand. He is trying to protect the marriage. 

Say he gives her plenty of rope and she's 'living the dream' screwing every swinging dlck that comes near....why would he ever want to reconcile with her? Surely, you agree that at point her value to him is nil, she will have broken their intimate sacred bond. She will have killed his love for her.


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## Aunt Ava

Norba_racer said:


> Thanks for all the comments. The only thing I know how to do at this point is let her go. She has been looking at 1 bedroom apt.s and that might be a good idea just so I can't see her. She just keeps flipping back and forth. She called me this morning and asked if I could talk to her this afternoon. Should I not answer and return her call later or hear her out? Deep down I don't think she wants a divorce, but in her fog it would be the thing to do at this moment in time.
> 
> I have minor surgery on the 15th of Feb and she said she would like to take care of me during recovery. What is all that about? My mom said she would be willing to come stay with me and I might take her up on that and tell wifey she is not needed. Any advise from MLC experts?
> 
> Everything I have read on MLC says to stay clear of them, don't argue, give them rope, don't hover, don't call, don't say I love you, don't cry in front of them, be nice with a smile and give it time. Am I off base here?
> 
> As far as the affair, I think I caught it in time and she is not texting anymore at all. I am sure it was at least an EA. So far she has been true to her word, but not willing to put any work into our marriage. Says she has checked out, but her actions don't show it as mentioned above. Could our marriage be over yes very easy, could our marriage workout not sure at this point.


Personally, if she's checked out of the marriage I wouldn't want her to do me any favors. Especially ones that involve her seeing me at my weakest. I think you should tell her thanks but no thanks...Mom's here for me. 
I also think you should do the 180, protect yourself. That make wake her up.


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## Norba_racer

Thanks Ava and all,

Helps to put my feelings into words. She called me today to let me know she is going to her solo MC visit at 11:30am and that she would like to talk when I get home after work. Talk aobut what? I guess on how we are going to split up everything. I really don't want to go home until late.

N


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## Aunt Ava

If you don't want to talk tonight, just tell her that's not going to work for you. Go dark on her, tell her to text you only about kids and money. 
If you do meet with her to talk, don't let her blame-shift, or rewrite history. She alone is responsible for her actions.


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## tom67

Tell her you are going out tonight no specifics. Let her wonder where you are going or who you are with. Plant the seed you are moving on.


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## Toffer

I agree with the approach of telling her she isn't needed for the surgery. Just tell her "Never mind, I've got it covered" No need to tell her it's your mom. 

Also agree that you tell her that you can't see her tonight because of previous plans. Be vague.

Tell her she can email you with any specifics and you'll get back to her when you can.

Do Not speak with her. Go as dark as possible and only deal with financial or child issues. No pleasantries on how your day was kind of stuff


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## warlock07

Norba_racer said:


> Thanks for all the comments. The only thing I know how to do at this point is let her go. She has been looking at 1 bedroom apt.s and that might be a good idea just so I can't see her. She just keeps flipping back and forth. She called me this morning and asked if I could talk to her this afternoon. Should I not answer and return her call later or hear her out? Deep down I don't think she wants a divorce, but in her fog it would be the thing to do at this moment in time.
> 
> I have minor surgery on the 15th of Feb and she said she would like to take care of me during recovery. What is all that about? My mom said she would be willing to come stay with me and I might take her up on that and tell wifey she is not needed. Any advise from MLC experts?
> 
> Everything I have read on MLC says to stay clear of them, don't argue, give them rope, don't hover, don't call, don't say I love you, don't cry in front of them, be nice with a smile and give it time. Am I off base here?
> 
> As far as the affair, I think I caught it in time and she is not texting anymore at all. I am sure it was at least an EA. So far she has been true to her word, but not willing to put any work into our marriage. Says she has checked out, but her actions don't show it as mentioned above. Could our marriage be over yes very easy, could our marriage workout not sure at this point.


She is 100% in an affair. I would have bet on it if there is a chance.. You just need to smart about snooping on her if you want the evidence. If she uses data plan and smart apps to chat fucntion to keep talking with other guys, they don't show up on her record. Get a keylogger on her computer. GPS and VAR her car. You can also track her phone but that will need a bit of work(what phone does she have , in between). You will have to catch her if you need the closure and the final nail in the coffin of your marriage.

And don't let her take care of you. It is for assuaging her own guilt. Ask your mother for help.


Read this link. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/64964-she-doesnt-think-she-cheated-7.html#post1419058
Then read the rest of the story from the beginning. One thing you can trust a cheater about is that they will consistently lie and deny their affairs.


Maybe she is hoping to get back once she had her flings and when they don't work out. make sure you address that too.


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## Chaparral

Tell her any time your family needs a lying cheating @#×&€, she will be the tirst one you think of.

She wasnt spending the nights out for an emotional affair. I have no doubt there have been more guys than tennis kid.


----------



## Norba_racer

Damn if she didn't call me again at work. Wanted to talk about separation. I said I had to go and would talk to her tonight. My plan is to stay away as long as I can and to avoid her when I go home. Although this will be hard with the kids. I told her she needs to start looking for a place to move into.

As the affair goes......I am over it to a degree and ready to move on with my life.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana

Separation is a wayward's paradise, don't forget that. While you're crying yourself to sleep holding her picture, she'll be finding herself... having sex with lots of different guys, or lots of times with the same guy.

Okay I exaggarated but you know the worst part? I didn't exxagarate that much.


----------



## tom67

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Separation is a wayward's paradise, don't forget that. While you're crying yourself to sleep holding her picture, she'll be finding herself... having sex with lots of different guys, or lots of times with the same guy.
> 
> Okay I exaggarated but you know the worst part? I didn't exxagarate that much.


Forget separation and just go for divorce. Separation is just so she can sample other men.


----------



## Norba_racer

If she wants a separation there is nothing I can do about it. Hell I will even help her pack. If she has sex with 100 guys so be it. Will I like it? No. Will I be around for her? No. If she takes the time to see what she left then I can forgive as long as she is transparent with me.

She is still planning to attend the MC next week with both of us and she just got out of a session. I don't understand why she would waste time going if she wants out so bad.


----------



## bandit.45

She's going to MC for the express purpose making herself look as good as possible so that when divorce is filed she can leave you with a clear conscience. 

"Hey I did everything I could to save the marriage. I even went to counseling and it still didn't change anything. He's a jerk and he won't change or let me be who I deserve to be. I tried".

Its all an act to passify you and assuage her own guilt. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## This is me

Norba, I have been in your shoes. Since you have kids I think this is even more important. She is in a fog. Read up on the MLC. It can take a couple of years, but she will see more clearly once she gets the shock of the reality of what she is doing. It is a mental glitch.

If you can be patient and can forgive some of the insanity her warped mind is temporarily running through her head, you can likely save your marriage and save your kids from the broken home.

Divorce Busters and Divorce Remedy are very informative and helpful for those looking to stick it out.

It is a mental illness without a doubt and who knows why some people get it, just like cancer.

My advice if you want to save the marriage is do all you can to mitigate the damage so the repair is less painful. This does not mean be weak, just be the bigger person and think from a sound strategy as outlined in the books.

I wish you well!


----------



## This is me

Norba_racer said:


> I don't know if her willing to go to MC is all for show or she really wants to see if we can work it out. If she was having an affair why would she make the appointments for the MC? Although, she isn't ready to do heavy lifting for our relationship. Like not giving me access to her phone.
> 
> Norba


MC is a good sign. Mine separated and did this for 4 months while we were apart. It gave her time and space. Mine barely contributed which would have sent most to divorce court, but I can see in hindsight it helped her clear her head. At 3 plus months of limbo land, I told her it was time for us to pick a direction. She went left and at the last minute turned right. 

It was worth the wait.


----------



## Toffer

bandit.45 said:


> She's going to MC for the express purpose making herself look as good as possible so that when divorce is filed she can leave you with a clear conscience.
> 
> "Hey I did everything I could to save the marriage. I even went to counseling and it still didn't change anything. He's a jerk and he won't change or let me be who I deserve to be. I tried".
> 
> Its all an act to passify you and assuage her own guilt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

While not the case in all of these type of situations it surely is a common approach waywards take

Do not be her Plan B! When her current love interest dies out she'll probably come crawling back to you and the security you offer. You'll have to decide then to what it is you're willing to do


----------



## Machiavelli

Norba_racer said:


> This is my first post and have been going through this hell for about two months, but it has gotten real bad the last month. We have been married for 11 years and together for 19 with two girls 8 and 6. She turns 40 this month and has blamed me for all her misery. She has started avoiding our kids too. She said it is just a phase with the kids, but not sure about us (lmbnilwm).


ILYBINILWY has a very precise meaning 99% of the time; it means that she has copulated with another man or has decided to do so. Because of the way female brain chemistry works, she still has warm fuzzy feelings toward you, but she is not "in love with you", meaning not sexually excited by you. You provoke the bonding chemistry, which is oxytocin, but the dopamine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, etc are no longer stimulated by you. Most likely due to the fact that domesticity has erased any of your "bad boy" traits that women find sexually attractive. It's very hard for a woman to maintain the "in love" state beyond 7 years of an LTR. 

She can continue for years with both of you thinking she doesn't want sex and has "low sex drive" due to age or familiarity when the real problem is that you're no longer sexually attractive to her. When "Prince Charming" AKA POSOM comes along and reawakens her libido with a "kiss" she gets a flood of that crack-like brain chemistry from getting nailed by a hot new guy. It's not a mid-life crisis in the sense that an MLC causes an affair, it's just the opposite. The insane behavior is the result of the affair and her new craving for the "high" that comes from getting it on with new guys.



Norba_racer said:


> She has stayed out all night several times in the last two weeks and I have found 550 text between her and our 24 yr old tennis instructor.


She was with him the nights she didn't come home.



Norba_racer said:


> Some of the text have been at 1, 2, and 3 am. She says he is only a friend and nothing has ever happened other than mild flirting.


That's a lie, as proved by her behavior. Have her sit a poly and see how she fares.



Norba_racer said:


> I don't have proof, but she has shown all the signs of cheating (lost wt, new undies, new younger clothes, shaved).


People are convicted with circumstantial evidence all the time. There's more than enough to convict here. Young guys seem to have a preference for bare beaver, so it fits the profile of what a younger guy sees as "hot."



Norba_racer said:


> She is a very attactive woman so I can see the tennis guy being attracted to her even though she is 16 years older. He has also been texting her tennis girlfriends too (all in their 40s), but I don't know if it is the same volume of text. Very weird to me.


What's weird about it? It's very common for guys under 35 who coach women to score action and have a rotation of multiple women at any given time. It's one of the fringe benefits of the job and the customers enjoy it. A guy who's good in the sack can get client referrals based on that.

Have you never been to a commercial gym with male trainers?



Norba_racer said:


> I confronted him at the courts and he denied that they fooled around or anything.


Yes, the husbands enjoy it less than the clients. He's lying.



Norba_racer said:


> After that he has not contacted her except breifly about tennis (according to her).


More lying.



Norba_racer said:


> He even cancelled their last lesson.


For what reason?



Norba_racer said:


> More background: she starting being distant just before Xmas last year 2012. Staying out shopping late, any chance to leave she would.


That's when the sex started. The brain chemistry related to sex with a new guy(s) drives a huge urge to detach from kids and BH in order to start a new family with OM. This is the biological driver, even though your WW hasn't got a clue and has zero intention rationally of starting a new family. However, the frontal cortex of her brain has zero say in any of this. The limbic system rules.



Norba_racer said:


> Jan 8th she said she needed space and started going out with her friends more drinking and smoking pot. She never smoked pot the last 10 years.


What friends are these? Do you know them? Most likely these are toxic friends who are divorced or cheaters. They're going out to get action. Once your WW crossed the line with OM, she starts craving the dopamine, PEA, norepinephrine, etc. If OM is not available or can't keep up, any OM will do, except for you.



Norba_racer said:


> She bought a new Audi that I didn't want her to get.


She's planning on getting on the c0ck carousel, so a domestic looking car is not what she needs to be driving now. 



Norba_racer said:


> Says she never wanted kids and that I am drowning her.


This rewriting of history is all part of the detachment process. But, it's a process and doesn't fully happen all at once. All women hate cheaters; your wife does, too, even though she is one. She has to rationalize her actions to harmonize the values of her cortex with the actions of her limbic reproduction system.



Norba_racer said:


> She has threatened to leave, but never does.


She's still working through the detachment process. As long as her hand is not forced, she can continue "cake eating". This is you providing for her financials and her kids while OM(s) take care of her newly budding sex addiction.



Norba_racer said:


> I don't say ILU or cry and beg.


Excellent.



Norba_racer said:


> I did take off for a couple days and she was nice when I was gone, but was a real ***** before I confronted the tennis boy.


Before or after the confrontation? Usually they get pissed when you confront the OM. Did you warn her you were going to do it?



Norba_racer said:


> I drew up divorce papers to give her the out and predated the separation for 1 year to make it a quick break. She was a little shocked when I showed her the papers.


This is the best single thing you can do. It shocked her because she didn't thing you had it in you to pull the plug. She thought that, for the simple reason that she thinks you understand that you can't get another woman. Your wife is solipsistic; if she doesn't find you attractive, no woman will find you attractive. If you move on smartly, it must be because you have another woman. YMMV, but that's the basic standard profile. 



Norba_racer said:


> She has also given the option of working it out for 8 more weeks and then reevaluate a divorce. Live in the same house or for her to move into a small apartment to find herself.


Well, that giving her an option move wasn't the best play. Should be hard nosed with her through and through. You can't keep her from leaving if she wants to, but you should not go along with unless you're hard set on divorce. Almost impossible to reconcile from a WW affair and it's even harder when she's moved out and has her love nest to bring guys back to uninterrupted.



Norba_racer said:


> I have started playing hardball more and not sure what I should do next.


Show signs of moving on. More on this later.



Norba_racer said:


> Although she is not willing to give me access to her cell phone so I build some trust in what she says. Says I am tring to control her and I shouldn't care so much.


If her lips are moving, she's lying. It's all BS to keep her drug supply (wild sex) open without having to face your consequences. No need to control her or care if you've decided to move on, which is what you have to project whether or not that's your true feelings.



Norba_racer said:


> Would it better for her to leave during the 8 weeks or to stay in the house?


You stay in the house. She stays in the house, too, unless she has the wherewithal to get out without support from you. If D is the final decision, then try to get her out. You stay.





Norba_racer said:


> Valentines day is coming up as well as her birthday. What do I do for her if anything? I wanted to give her surprise party, but not sure about it now.


Do nothing. You're moving on without saying so overtly, remember? You're just showing signs and ignoring these days is a good sign.



Norba_racer said:


> I want her to stay with me and kids in hopes that she will snap out of her fog after her BDay.


She's not going to "snap out of" it, but she won't even drift out of it if you facilitate her departure before you decide that you are done with her. 



Norba_racer said:


> Any ideas on my next steps?


Continue remaking yourself and increasing your sex rank to women in general, but basically ignore your WW. Don't instigate conversation. If she does, keep open relaxed body language and facial expression as if you're just an amused acquaintance of the biggest slvt in high school. Keep cool, detached, and out of body, no matter how great the provocation. After all, you're the guy with options, which is attractive. Guys who have oneitis for their woman are screwed no matter what. You need to project the same aura as the guy who knows he's getting ready to put together a rotation of five or six 32 year old divorceés just as soon as his crazy cheating wive takes herself out of the picture.



Norba_racer said:


> Oh I have been making changes too. Lost 20 pounds, been working out, trying to look nice, blah blah blah


You need to do some very specific things.

1. Totally change your haircut to the opposite of what you have now. If it's long, buzz it and vice versa. It doesn't have to be permanent and you don't have to like it. It's a message.

2. Keep up the fat loss and start building muscle. Cut out all grain products and sugar intake. Lift heavy no more than 3 days a week, sticking to the big compounds. You want to get your body into the Golden Ratio which triggers the female limbic system to sexually arouse. I wouldn't waste any time on "cardio" personally.

3. If you have a "family" type vehicle get rid of it and get a Challenger or a Mustang. You need a single man's ride. An alternative is to get a Harley, not a dresser, and ride that most of the time when you don't have the kids.

4. Start dressing like a guy 10 years younger who makes twice as much. Hit Esquire's web site and find out how to dress. There are others around the give you the same info. Overdress for every occasion unless you're changing your oil. Start wearing suits. Women eat that up and you're not necessarily dressing for your wife anymore.

5. Get new cologne and start using it. Ditch your old standby.

6. Get home, shower, dress in your new threads and head out. Especially if she has plans to be out, you just beat her out the door. If she asks where you're going , just say "Out. I'll be back later." If she presses, evade and leave. If she says she wants to go with you, tell her she's got five minutes. If she makes it, take her someplace fun and act like you're on a first date with someone you've known casually for a while. Very light.

7. Quit talking relationship unless she brings it up. Let her spew and keep quite. Evade on your opinions. Don't be sucked in, unless she's down on all fours begging for forgiveness.

All the above is designed to raise your sex rank and make it look like she's doing you a huge favor by making room in your bed for all the hotter, younger women you will soon be nailing in it, if she leaves.



Norba_racer said:


> Thanks for comment shadow. 2 years is a long time to put up with this crap. Although, she hasn't gone out this week and says she is done going out for awhile. Thanks for the reading tip. I find reading about this helps. She seems to go through bipolar spells or depression, but says she feels upbeat. BS in my mind.


It's the dopamine and the PEA. She's just like a crack addict. Affair sex is the best sex ever and she craves it, but she still has a spark of sanity under there somewhere. That's why she's acting like she's on a roller coaster ride. She's kind of like a meth/crack-wh0re from day to day. Gotta get laid to get the "drugs."



Norba_racer said:


> I do want it to work, but not sure how to get her to go somewhere with me. She has a cold at the moment too so that might be partly why she is staying in. We have talked alot the last couple of days. She said she doesn't know about us and would like to get an apt on her own for awhile so she can learn to be independant and clear her head. I hope letting her go and be on her own for awhile might help?


She wants to be able to experiment with OM(s) while keeping you on the string. Don't let her play that game. Once they're out, they usually don't come back unless they're very committed to one MOM and he throws her under the bus to go back to his BW.



Norba_racer said:


> Her whole personality changed almost overnight. Not the same person she was 3 months ago. Almost like a mental illness.


That's what I'm telling you, man. She never knew sex could be like that. No slam on you, but no affair sex is just about the ultimate sex high there is. Married sex can never compare, because affair sex is universally off the table. It's secret! It's extra kinky! 



Norba_racer said:


> WE live in a really nice house and both have great high paying jobs.


In that case, your R chances are lower.



Norba_racer said:


> We have just started going to a MC and her solo visit is Monday. Then we come back together the following week.


Waste of time and money. Especially so if she's still banging OM(s), which is a sure thing.


----------



## alte Dame

Just for the record, a legitimate MLC is triggered by a major event like the death of a parent or close friend, or a life-threatening illness. These things are shocks that cause a lot of internal anxiety and questioning, resulting sometimes in making last-ditch efforts at being young. In the absence of any serious triggering event, your W is probably just cheating and enjoying the excitement. She's following a cheater's script quite closely.


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## bandit.45

Holy crap Mach! You've gotten good at this chit....


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## Anubis

Post of the day, Machiavelli... Post of the Day. :smthumbup:

I came in here to make one of my high quality posts, but my work here was already done before I arrived.


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## Cubby

alte Dame said:


> She's following a cheater's script quite closely.


:iagree:Yes, quite closely. In fact, so close that I'm going to declare that this is the quintessential cheater's script. Reading norba racer's story made my cheater detector buzz so much, I have to change the batteries now.


----------



## Machiavelli

Norba_racer said:


> Anon: She has worked full time and has been a very good mother up till now. Says she took care of them for 8 years now it is my turn. She is now quick to snap at them and never did that before.


This is classic textbook detachment behavior as her limbic system works to set the stage for her "new family."



Norba_racer said:


> I too am starting to think something is going on like perimenopause with a little midlife crisis mixed in. After reading about perimenopause it fits her 100%. She now hates for me to touch her, makes her feel uncomfortable. We have not had sex in 3 months. I have asked her to get her hormones checked but she doesn't.


In this case, it's not about the perimenopause. She does not have reduced libido; in fact her libido is probably only slightly less than it was at 30. Once the new guy was "in" so to speak, you were "out." No mystery. At least she wasn't feeding you creampies and sloppy seconds, which is the usual dinner fare for cuckolds.



Norba_racer said:


> Shag: I have made it uncomfortable for him so I don't think he will continue. I can only hope that I got in the middle in time.


You were too late. Her actions that tipped you off were the post-coital effects of a woman attaching herself to a new sex partner.



Norba_racer said:


> She has not admitted to anything, except being inappropriate talking to a 24 yr old. She has been a mental case the last month and very well could've slept with him. I will never know one way or the other.


If you educate yourself about female behavior, you will know. You know already, deep down.



Norba_racer said:


> She has never fooled around before or even flirted with other men.


So? I'm betting she used to be a virgin, too.



Norba_racer said:


> Like I said earlier she a very attractive woman and am sure other men notice her, but she never has cheated before. She has been talking about implants and has a couple consulting appointments coming up. Her good friend has implants and she wants to do the same. Why? She says to feel better about her self image. Says when she looks in the mirror she sees an old woman......she looks 30.


The real reason is that she wants to laid by lots of different men. Women with breast implants were found by medical reaserchers to be *10X* more likely to have *more than 14 sex partners* than women with natural boobs. Also, 70% of women with implants report better sexual experiences. Your wife is getting ready to ride the c0ck carousel.



Norba_racer said:


> I don't know if her willing to go to MC is all for show or she really wants to see if we can work it out. If she was having an affair why would she make the appointments for the MC?


It's for show. Her Rationalization Hamster, the little creature that runs around in her brain to harmonize her cognitive dissonance, demands it. And she can tell everyone she even went to MC. After all, if she was really in an affair (like you're going to be saying) why would she go to MC? See how that works?



Norba_racer said:


> Although, she isn't ready to do heavy lifting for our relationship. Like not giving me access to her phone.


If she did that, you could watch her "home" videos and nasty sexts with OM, so access is definitely denied. At least for the BH.



Norba_racer said:


> Tonight she said she wants to follow through with a quick divorce. I agreed to give her that and walked out. She followed me around the house asking if I was Ok. I said yes that I had been expecting her to say that.


Very good show. This throws her for a slight loop, but that development is quickly set aside as the opportunity for a new "drug" injection takes place. 



Norba_racer said:


> She left and got a hotel room around the corner.


Did I tell you that strange semen contains mood elevating chemistry that a woman absorbs into her bloodstream making her feel that all is well with the world? That's why your wife never uses rubbers with OM(s).



Norba_racer said:


> She called me again and ask me to call her if I need to talk.


Must have gotten a rare guilt twinge after OM left and she calmed back down.



Norba_racer said:


> I didn't call her back. At this point I am checking out.


That's right. Follow the detachment came plan as outlined in that earlier post I put up. You're doing it instinctively. You've got good instincts.



Norba_racer said:


> Sounded like she is having 2nd thoughts, says lets sleep on it and talk again tomorrow morning. I am done talking to her.


She's just having temporary post-coital guilt pangs. She would have real second thoughts unless you can get her home and get her legs shut. If that fails, she won't come back around until she hits 55 and finds herself alone in a rented room with 6 cats and fifth of gin.



Norba_racer said:


> Thanks for all the comments. The only thing I know how to do at this point is let her go. She has been looking at 1 bedroom apt.s and that might be a good idea just so I can't see her. She just keeps flipping back and forth. She called me this morning and asked if I could talk to her this afternoon. Should I not answer and return her call later or hear her out? Deep down I don't think she wants a divorce, but in her fog it would be the thing to do at this moment in time.


If you can keep her at home, you've got a better shot at R. If she goes, she's going to be riding that carousel for a long time and you're going to start up your soft harem of younger, hotter women.



Norba_racer said:


> I have minor surgery on the 15th of Feb and she said she would like to take care of me during recovery. What is all that about?


It's standard textbook affair stuff. She needs to feel like you're still going to be friends and it's all going to be civilized and you're going to be all happy she's found a new love. Remember all women hate other adulteresses, except for themselves.



Norba_racer said:


> My mom said she would be willing to come stay with me and I might take her up on that and tell wifey she is not needed. Any advise from MLC experts?


The MLC is just the fallout from the fooking. Tell your wife you've got it all under control and your new friend "Carmelita" is going to help you out.



Norba_racer said:


> Everything I have read on MLC says to stay clear of them, don't argue, give them rope, don't hover, don't call, don't say I love you, don't cry in front of them, be nice with a smile and give it time. Am I off base here?


That is all anti-affair behavior and is the correct action.



Norba_racer said:


> As far as the affair, I think I caught it in time and she is not texting anymore at all. I am sure it was at least an EA.


No question it's a PA. Either she's gone underground with OM1 or she's on the carousel. We know this because she hasn't come down off the dopamine, et. al. She's still getting her drug from somebody or she would by down on the ground holding onto your ankles with both hands asking for forgiveness.

So far she has been true to her word, but not willing to put any work into our marriage. Says she has checked out, but her actions don't show it as mentioned above. Could our marriage be over yes very easy, could our marriage workout not sure at this point.[/QUOTE]

You're most likely to divorce, based on your wife's actions and her revealed plans. She's having the sex of her life, her toxic friends put her up to it and it was everything they had promised. She's got to ride the carousel. She actually thought she could ride it like her married friends, with just some side action, just something for her, but now she's out of control and she knows it. It's just like some girls can snort coke for hotter sex on the weekend, but other girls turn into raging addicts. It's the same with side sex and involves the same brain chemistry. And yes, women in affairs start using drugs to enhance the sex and get horny. It's all one big ball of wax to the brain.


----------



## bandit.45

Mach is positively scintillating today.


----------



## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> Holy crap Mach! You've gotten good at this chit....


Sucks, doesn't it? I've got two clients going through this right now. The guys are both 70/71 and have 56 year old wives. One guy will have more women in about 5 minutes and the other guy won't. But he'll be getting some nice alimony as a consolation prize since STBXW is an MD.


----------



## Machiavelli

Norba_racer said:


> I have minor surgery on the 15th of Feb and she said she would like to take care of me during recovery.


I hope she didn't talk you into a vasectomy. This is something many women feel the need to do before or shortly after starting an affair. Can you guess why that is?


----------



## This is me

You know everything you read on the internet is true. I read it on the internet.

When reading some of the certainties you will need to remember that we all come here with our own back story and POV from that situation.


Having seen the MLC alien take over my wife and and make her into someone completely different from the former 18 years and then return about 2 years later, It is clear there is the potential for hope with patience and real professional help. Not the internet kind.

Mine lost a ton of weight, went crazy on exercising which she had never done in 18 years, got braces on her perfectly fine teeth, looked into a boob job, started having lunches with 10 year younger ex pro athlete (EA), etc....

There was no big event other than her aging and realizing her life was passing by and questioning whether this is all there is. I think this is the common story with the MLC sufferers.

I can tell you she is back and better. We both have a greater appreciation for each other having gone through this. 

Would you say you ever had a very good marriage? If so, it might be worth fighting for.... IMHO


----------



## Machiavelli

Norba_racer said:


> Damn if she didn't call me again at work. Wanted to talk about separation. I said I had to go and would talk to her tonight. My plan is to stay away as long as I can and to avoid her when I go home.


Get that haircut and some new threads on the way home. That will delay your arrival and will give her a jolt when you come in the door. Shower, change, and go out wearing new duds as described previously. Tell her "We'll have plenty of time to discuss the separation later, but I can't tonight, because I'm meeting someone. Don't wait up, but maybe we can talk tomorrow night. See ya!"



Norba_racer said:


> Although this will be hard with the kids. I told her she needs to start looking for a place to move into.


Again, this will encourage bad behavior on her part and will cement the D decision.



Norba_racer said:


> the affair goes......I am over it to a degree and ready to move on with my life.


My opinion, although many disagree, is that hard proof is a good thing to have for "shaping the battlespace" for the coming split and the "hearts and minds" issue with the kids and extended family. Follow the previous suggestions about VARs, GPS, etc. or get a PI. If for some reason R is a possibility, this hard proof can be quite a shock to the WW. Remember, WWs hate cheaters. Proof will sometimes be a silver bullet to the Rationalization Hamster's heart. That's why WWs are suddenly so hot for "separation" as they start to feel like BH is closing in on getting the real truth. They can't give up the OM and his magic sperm, but they don't want to be confronted with photographic proof, either. Separation also lets them say to their family "but we were separated at the time, so I'm not a cheater!" should proof come to light.



Norba_racer said:


> If she wants a separation there is nothing I can do about it. Hell I will even help her pack.


Don't help her with anything.



Norba_racer said:


> If she has sex with 100 guys so be it. Will I like it? No. Will I be around for her? No.


See, you've got good instincts.



Norba_racer said:


> If she takes the time to see what she left then I can forgive as long as she is transparent with me.


If she actually follows through and leaves and gets that fake rack, she won't be in her right mind for years. Especially if she's as hot as you say. 



Norba_racer said:


> She is still planning to attend the MC next week with both of us and she just got out of a session. I don't understand why she would waste time going if she wants out so bad.


If you can get the proof, you be the one to cancel the session. That's really going against the BH script, which you've been doing quite well at, for the most part.


----------



## Jasel




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## ComicBookLady

Just my opinion, but I disagree with a lot of what was said in this thread. The very fact that your wife wants marriage counseling means she wants to be married to you still. A lot of times women cry "separation" or "divorce" or even do stupid things like get attention from other men to get you to wake up and finally give her whatever it is she feels is missing in your marriage. Of course it's wrong of her to use those tactics, and they never work, but the root of the problem is solvable and your marriage is still within saving. It'll take a lot of listening on both parts to fix it all. 

Everyone here wants you to just assume she's a full on cheater, and maybe she is, but I feel that when a marriage and families are on the table, ALL information should be gathered before you jump right to a conclusion like that, or jump straight to "our marriage is over" in your own mind, because it's most likely not over, if you want to do the work to save it.

If the culprit is indeed a MLC, I would consider the post by the gentleman who had the wife who went through something similar and regained a healthy marriage before anything else, but of course, it's your decision.


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## Sigma Uber Alles

Nothing left to say... Machiavelli has outlined it all... and quite clearly in his usually astute way.

Oh maybe one thing to the OP:

Sorry Mate. Just know it's not really about you and you are not the only one that has been there... This is about 2.5 million years of human evolutionary bio-chemical behavior... So, chin up.


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## Faithful Wife

Mach said: "It's just like some girls can snort coke for hotter sex on the weekend, but other girls turn into raging addicts. It's the same with side sex and involves the same brain chemistry. And yes, women in affairs start using drugs to enhance the sex and get horny. It's all one big ball of wax to the brain."

It isn't clear here....do you actually think this applies to women and not men? Sex can be like a drug and cocaine is a drug and PEOPLE can be addicted to either or both. But you are straight up saying "women" do this and that.....why?

I get what you are doing to help with your message here. But when you make a statement like this one that seems to be saying that women are somehow different when it comes to addiction?

I assume you know that ALL of the same kinds of rationalization about affairs comes out of men's mouths when they get caught as well. You seem to hate cheaters, but only the female ones. Why?

I know you are well loved around her by some. But you clearly also hate women. That is sad.


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## Norba_racer

Mach you are on a roll to say the least.

THIS IS ME....... you sound like you went through what I am going through at the moment. I really hope this will not go on for 2 years. Not sure I can take it. I did buy the book you suggested. Good reading so far. Thanks


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## Machiavelli

T/J time, huh?



Faithful Wife said:


> Mach said: "It's just like some girls can snort coke for hotter sex on the weekend, but other girls turn into raging addicts. It's the same with side sex and involves the same brain chemistry. And yes, women in affairs start using drugs to enhance the sex and get horny. It's all one big ball of wax to the brain."
> 
> It isn't clear here....do you actually think this applies to women and not men?


How does that apply to OP's issues? His wife is a woman. Further, all my experience is with females, so I really don't have much to offer those who aren't involved with women.



Faithful Wife said:


> Sex can be like a drug and cocaine is a drug and PEOPLE can be addicted to either or both. But you are straight up saying "women" do this and that.....why?


OP's wife is a woman, so it is pointless to discuss whatever it is that men do, aside from how to keep them away form OP's WW.



Faithful Wife said:


> I get what you are doing to help with your message here. But when you make a statement like this one that seems to be saying that women are somehow different when it comes to addiction?


I never said anything about anyone being different or being the same. I made some correct statements about how women tend to behave when they are conducting adulterous affairs. Feel free to point out any errors. You do realize for instance that the typical male has to drink about twice as much as the typical female to get loaded, right? He's also sober in about half the time, as well. That's not the only difference, but drug use doesn't really concern me a whole lot, other than pointing out the similarities to being "in love."



Faithful Wife said:


> I assume you know that ALL of the same kinds of rationalization about affairs comes out of men's mouths when they get caught as well. You seem to hate cheaters, but only the female ones. Why?


I dislike adulterers at least as much as I dislike adulteresses, so I'm guessing you've most likely jumped to your conclusion due to the fact that I typically post to provide information to BHs. I have no idea how much if anything of what I know about WWs applies to WHs, because men and women do not have the same reproductive parts or programming. As for my likes and dislikes, I dislike adulterers, at least as much as I dislike adulteresses. This is why I advocate the reinstatement of the Paramour Law.



Faithful Wife said:


> I know you are well loved around her by some. But you clearly also hate women. That is sad.


Sad? No, that's hysterical. How did you come up with that one?


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## jim123

Norba_racer said:


> Mach you are on a roll to say the least.
> 
> THIS IS ME....... you sound like you went through what I am going through at the moment. I really hope this will not go on for 2 years. Not sure I can take it. I did buy the book you suggested. Good reading so far. Thanks


Do not accept seperation. If she wants to play around and she does, make her D. Do not let yourself be plan B. She wants to have her fun and if it does not work out she will come back to you. But honey I did not cheat we were seperated.

Make her make a choice and live with it. If she leaves do the 180 and move on with your life. Do not spend time looking back.


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## lonesomegra

Getting an Audi? That proves she is not thinking straight. Around these parts an Audi is called 'the poor man's BMW'!!!!


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## Norba_racer

Well after reading part of Divorce Remedy, I know I will need to do the lions share of the work at the moment. I came in later than usual last night and tried to be up beat (smiling as if nothing was wrong). She went to bed early and we didn't discuss much of anything. 

This morning we small talked. I asked about her day and she mentioned she had a doubles tennis match with her best friend as her teammate. I got her to laugh a little, but it was a nice short conversation and I could see the exitement in her about wanting to win this last game for the winter season. She said she would call me to let me know how the game went. 

Things I learned in the book are to be patient and don't push. Never let her see me in a negative light. I plan on reading the rest today. I hope this works. Wish me luck and I will keep you all posted on the progress or lack of it.


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## Norba_racer

HA HA ..... yesterday the wifey called me while looking for an apartment. When she came home, she asked me why she had to move out. I said cause you are the one with the issues. She made up some BS and said I should be to one to go. 

My friend was sitting there and asked us why anyone had to move out. She said that in NC a married couple had to be separated for 1 year before divorce. His remark was why not work on it? Her sponse was that she can't fight for us anymore, she has no fight left. I told her to not work on it and let me do all the heavy lifting for a couple months and she agreed.

Now what? I plan to stay the course and to be patient, do my own thing for awhile and when she goes out I will let her know that I am taking the kids out somewhere fun. 

Any thing else I should be doing?


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## Machiavelli

Norba_racer said:


> Any thing else I should be doing?


The same stuff I posted before. What's your surveillance program? Did you VAR the car, GPS, etc?


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## tom67

Machiavelli said:


> The same stuff I posted before. What's your surveillance program? Did you VAR the car, GPS, etc?


That's the only way you are going to find out one way or another.


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## happyman64

Norba

She is selfish, selfish, selfish.

Do yourself a favor.

Make sure your half of the finances are secure.

Because while you may do the heavy lifting she will be getting the new boobs, lips and butt.

And someone else will be appreciating it.

So do not let her do it on your dime.

And if anyone goes it is her. Wanna know why? Because your kids will need you. Becauseyour wife will be ignoring them because she is on FB, texting or match.com.

So be careful, protect you and the kids.

And be prepared to see her become someone you barely recognize.

Hang tough. And deploy the VARS.

HM64


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## the guy

Keep the postive additude high, smile, and stay confident in your self. Hard? Sure! But a tactic that will raise your attraction level and as long as you keep her second guessing her self, you might have a chance.

One thing is continue to push the move, bring in the boxes, offer to help her pack.....bring her closer to her own reality in what she thinks she wants.

I also agree, bring in the VAR and even though you may not catcher cheating you will be a few steps ahead of her when it come to knowing what she will fight you for, and what you have to protect your self.

Now it seems you are at a disagreement on who should leave..becareful of false accuesations to get you out of the house.


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## NotSleeping

I'm going through something similar as you. My wife is going through a MLC (exercise, boob job, younger friends, new car, etc.). There can be other issues --> I found the book on the Passion Trap informative about pursuer and pursued behavior.

I think you are starting on the right track. All the advice I read is to give them space, not say "I love you", not beg, complain, or plead. To let them go their own way. If you want to save your marriage, and are willing to wait, then it will be tough, but this seems to be the best hope.

The other thing to do, is to up your attractiveness: physical fitness, clothing, etc. Be the dominant male.

I started 1 month ago, and since I'm reading my wife's email ,I know this is working.




Norba_racer said:


> HA HA ..... yesterday the wifey called me while looking for an apartment. When she came home, she asked me why she had to move out. I said cause you are the one with the issues. She made up some BS and said I should be to one to go.
> 
> My friend was sitting there and asked us why anyone had to move out. She said that in NC a married couple had to be separated for 1 year before divorce. His remark was why not work on it? Her sponse was that she can't fight for us anymore, she has no fight left. I told her to not work on it and let me do all the heavy lifting for a couple months and she agreed.
> 
> Now what? I plan to stay the course and to be patient, do my own thing for awhile and when she goes out I will let her know that I am taking the kids out somewhere fun.
> 
> Any thing else I should be doing?


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## AVR1962

I did not read all the replies but what I can say is your wife is showing the signs of having an affair whether anyone admits to it or not. My first husband was a player so I have been in your shoes. We divorced 26 years ago and while I was happy to be free from my loser husband who continued to cheat on every woman he has been with since, the divorce was very hard on the children.

I suggest seeking counseling together as a couple and if your wife refuses she is telling you she has no interest on working at the marriage.


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## Aunt Ava

Norba, Any updates? How are you doing?


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## Shaggy

Does she have the income to have her own apartment?

Btw, I don't think she was playing tennis.


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## Norba_racer

Update.....

I was out of town the last couple of days and my best friend was staying here to keep me informed. She didn't go out except for a couple hours while I was gone.

When I returned from my trip on Friday she wanted to talk to me. I listended to her and didn't argue just listended and confirmed. She said that she needs to feel independant and self supporting. So she said that she was going to sign a lease for 6 months today. Well I don't think she did. She is out with some of her girlfriends and has not came home with a least agreement. She invited me to go to a family party tonight at 6pm. 

She tries to rewrite history and bring up every bad thing I ever said to her over 20 years and that I am in her face all the time (BS). Said that she needs time away by herself to forgive me. I don't think she really wants to move out because of the money drain it would take for her to stay afloat. I know I am not paying for her to move, it will all come out of her pocket.


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## ComicBookLady

Norba_racer said:


> Update.....
> 
> I was out of town the last couple of days and my best friend was staying here to keep me informed. She didn't go out except for a couple hours while I was gone.
> 
> When I returned from my trip on Friday she wanted to talk to me. I listended to her and didn't argue just listended and confirmed. She said that she needs to feel independant and self supporting. So she said that she was going to sign a lease for 6 months today. Well I don't think she did. She is out with some of her girlfriends and has not came home with a least agreement. She invited me to go to a family party tonight at 6pm.
> 
> She tries to rewrite history and bring up every bad thing I ever said to her over 20 years and that I am in her face all the time (BS). Said that she needs time away by herself to forgive me. I don't think she really wants to move out because of the money drain it would take for her to stay afloat. I know I am not paying for her to move, it will all come out of her pocket.


First of all GOOD JOB for listening and confirming!!  You get major points for that!

If you feel like she REALLY doesn't want to move out I would trust your instinct there. If that's the case I *think* she' using that as a way to get you to show her how much you love her and how badly you want her to stay. To me it's a desperate attempt to get you to cherish her. She's wants to feel you to want her to stay more than anything else in this world. She's doing it in the typical female roundabout way, but that's what she's doing.

If you said something like " I understand you feel you want independence and want to leave (reflection = good validation). I want to support your needs, but I'm having trouble because I love you so much, and I want you to stay with me forever. What can I do to help you not leave and still feel your independence? Please help me do a better job."

And body language/ tone is KEY to women!! Don't say it stone faced!

If this breaks through to her, she'll let you know some very key insights to her REAL needs. Take note of them and consider them deeply.

As for "rewriting history", this is most likely not a fair way to think of the situation. You have a POV of what's happening, she has her own POV. Her retelling things from her view makes you say she's "rewriting history" when she's merely sees and feels things differently. It's up to both of you to understand each other's POV and find the common middle ground you can meet on. But you cannot understand someone else's view when you look through glasses clouded by your own views and resentment.

When she says you were always "in her face", focus on how that could make her FEEL and do not focus on the literal meaning. She FELT like you were in her face all the time. If she feels it, she desperately needs your validation. "I am sorry if you felt I was in your face all the time" (note: you are not admitting to actually being in her face; you are sorry for her hurt feelings - which you are, right?)

I don't know if any of that will help, but I hope you can view it all with an open mind. As a female I see her doing something completely different than you and most men think she's doing, so it may be worthy to consider it.


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## Entropy3000

Mach is dead on.

Note to self -- No male tennis instructors ( cliche ), golf instriuctore or personal trainers. Oh or private martial arts lessons ( elvis ).

Well you should never have gone for this tennis guy. But your first inkling of anything you should have fired him and insisted on NC. 

Essentailly you should have stould your gound on most of this self indulgent crap she started to go through. You spoiled her dude. 

Anyway, no spearation. Go to a lawyer. You need to stop supporting her lifestyle. And while she is the cheater you should make life miserable for any poacher. Stop paying the tennis guy iof you still are. Do not pay for any cosmetic surgery.


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## Anon Pink

Entropy3000 said:


> Mach is dead on.
> 
> Note to self -- No male tennis instructors ( cliche ), golf instriuctore or personal trainers. Oh or private martial arts lessons ( elvis ).
> 
> Well you should never have gone for this tennis guy. But your first inkling of anything you should have fired him and insisted on NC.
> 
> Essentailly you should have stould your gound on most of this self indulgent crap she started to go through. You spoiled her dude.
> 
> Anyway, no spearation. Go to a lawyer. You need to stop supporting her lifestyle. And while she is the cheater you should make life miserable for any poucher. Stop paying the tennis guy iof you still are. Do not pay for any cosmetic surgery.


Holy Cow I agree with Entropy!

Norba, it really seems to me that your wife is not being honest and so long as that continues, there is no hope for the marriage. Dont allow her to manipulate you back into counseling unless she needs therapists support to come clean. Tell her those exact words and when she denies any affair, politely end the conversation and proceed with divorce.

I am still working my way out of a MLC. Through it all I continued to insist my minivan with clouded windows due to hand prints and dog slobber was the sexiest car on the road, my implants came after cancer and my chase for lost opportunities was prompted by not wanting to die with regrets. When we truly wish to have no regrets, we MUST be fearlessly honest. No one who has read this thread sees honesty in your wife.


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## Machiavelli

Norba_racer said:


> Update.....
> 
> I was out of town the last couple of days and my best friend was staying here to keep me informed. She didn't go out except for a couple hours while I was gone.


Day party at OM's place or maybe someone new? What did the GPS say?



Norba_racer said:


> When I returned from my trip on Friday she wanted to talk to me. I listended to her and didn't argue just listended and confirmed. She said that she needs to feel independant and self supporting. So she said that she was going to sign a lease for 6 months today. Well I don't think she did. She is out with some of her girlfriends and has not came home with a least agreement. She invited me to go to a family party tonight at 6pm.


Out apartment hunting with toxic friends? Maybe she wants to show you the lease in a group. Are you going?



Norba_racer said:


> She tries to rewrite history and bring up every bad thing I ever said to her over 20 years and that I am in her face all the time (BS).


Yeah, I think we covered that. Typical woman in affair mentality with the Rationalization Hamster running amok. This all by itself yells affair.




Norba_racer said:


> Said that she needs time away by herself to forgive me.


Did she say how many men she gets to bang before you've earned her forgiveness? that's what time away is all about.



Norba_racer said:


> I don't think she really wants to move out because of the money drain it would take for her to stay afloat.


If so, she thinks you're going to let her "eat cake" and maintain your provider drone role.



Norba_racer said:


> I know I am not paying for her to move, it will all come out of her pocket.


Good decision.


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## happyman64

Norba

Good job listening.

Amazing how you are in her face after just coming back from a trip.

Keep listening. Stop financing anything.

Your wife needs a good dose of reality.

Give it to her.........

HM64


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## Aunt Ava

Thanks for the update, and good job on keeping your cool. She's following the cheaters script by rewriting history, and geez who can remember every slight for the past 20 years....yeah, someone trying to justify their bad behavior. This is called fog babble...gas lighting....get the picture?


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## Entropy3000

Ok, I hate to say this. Hopefully she does not have a thing for your best friend....


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## Norba_racer

Sorry about the time lapse, but I wanted to follow up for others going through what I have been through. 

She moved out Feb 10th and signed a lease for 6 months. Said she just wanted time for herself. Well she kept seeing this tennis coach remember he is 24 and she is 40. They are very discrete about it all too (none of her friends know about it and they leave town). So yes they are having an affair and she is only seeing him. I think she is in love with a 24 yr old. hahahaha She still denies anything is going on.

She split the savings with me and didn't come see our kids or even call much at all. Nothing. Then she turned 40 on Feb 26 went to the beach with her girl friends and when she returned she wanted to start seeing the kids again. Although, she says she wants them half of the time she just picks them up from school and brings them to my house (she has a very small apt). Once they are in the bed she bolts out the door and I assume to see boy wonder. 

She has gone through most of her money and now wants "her" savings back. I have been stalling this and have no intentions on giving her anything. She even says that I should have been the one to move out and that I made her leave. Come to find out she is giving the POSOM, boy actually, most of her extra cash on trips, hotels and is planning a week vacation to St. Croix. This will cost her $5k. So she needs that money to fund her trip.

She has not spent much at all on the kids. I hate her for this and would like at least primary custody. I have filed for divorce and it should be final by June 2013. I am also trying to get him fired from our HOA tennis program. I hope that happens because I see him daily.

After she has exhausted all her funds and he dumps her, then I will see my sweet revenge. She is about to hit rock bottom and is close to getting fired because of her attendance. Although, after the house sells she will have more money to blow.

I have been put through the ringer and it sucks more than words could ever explain. My kids are paying a price for it too. Not much I can do to shield my kids from our divorce. It boils my blood thinking about that. Kids are the ones paying for it the most in the long run IMO. 

I have been trying to concentrate on me (working out, gaining more friends, and planned a solo 2 week trip to the Philippines) The women over there love me too. hahaha Nothing helps getting over her than talking to other women. Anyway, I am taking it day by day and planning for my future. 

PS For those going through this.........if you think she is cheating she more than likely is. Remember it is not your fault. Nothing you did deserves what she is doing. Plus she is a low life and the OM is too. They deserve each other!!!! Keep your chin up and move on.


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## happyman64

Norba

Why wouldn't you have a PI in St Croix take pictures of her and the tennis POSOM while on vacation.

Then take those pics and send them to your families and his job.

That is what I would do.

Then give her savings and 1/2 the house.

Your wife is an idiot.

And deserves to be treated like one.

I hope you can start healing sooner rather than later.

And it is good to see you protecting the kids as best you can.

HM64


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## Cubby

Norba Racer, you're in a healthy state of mind. Your kids need you, so be a great father to them. 

I'm sorry that your wife is delusional, but there's nothing you can do about that. It's so easy to see that she's going to regret her choices real soon now. 24-year-old-tennis-boy's going to move on, and then what? The dating market's not very kind to 40 year old women. 

Meanwhile, as you continue to improve physically and mentally, gaining interests and friends, good things will happen for you.


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## Norba_racer

Happy...... I don't want to spend any money on pictures of them. Our families know already. The WW avoids both sides of the family because of her guilt I guess. The whole tennis team will know if he gets fired so that will be good enough for me. 

Cubby...... Thanks, I look forward to the day she trys to crawl back. I am willing to bet it will be by the end of summer after I have moved on. I have been talking to some really cool women.


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## happyman64

Norba_racer said:


> Happy...... I don't want to spend any money on pictures of them. Our families know already. The WW avoids both sides of the family because of her guilt I guess. The whole tennis team will know if he gets fired so that will be good enough for me.
> 
> Cubby...... Thanks, I look forward to the day she trys to crawl back. I am willing to bet it will be by the end of summer after I have moved on. I have been talking to some really cool women.


Good attitude Norba. Keep moving forward.


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## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Good attitude Norba. Keep moving forward.


Well, get his @rse fired then, just do it. Go to his boss at the club.


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## TRy

Norba_racer said:


> Happy...... I don't want to spend any money on pictures of them. Our families know already. The WW avoids both sides of the family because of her guilt I guess. The whole tennis team will know if he gets fired so that will be good enough for me.
> 
> Cubby...... Thanks, I look forward to the day she trys to crawl back. I am willing to bet it will be by the end of summer after I have moved on. I have been talking to some really cool women.


 My guess is that if she does crawl back it will be just before the divorce is final. When she asks boy wonder for a long term commitment to her, he will not want to do it. When you are 24, it is one thing to bang a hot 40 year old that gives you money. It is a totally different thing to commit to growing old with her. Also, he will see that with her having to pay to live on her own, money will not be so free for her to spend long term even with the one time money that she gets when the house sells.


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## TRy

*On another note. Ask the mods to move this to the Infidelity section where it belongs.*


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## Machiavelli

Norba, You're doing great. Like I said before, it's time to put together a rotation of a half-dozen divorcees, all younger and hotter than your XWW.

It's almost impossible to keep a wife in the marriage once she actually moves out. She never really sees your increasing SMV, because she's away and into the OM. The WHs will come back, or try to, but the woman who moves out and leaves her kids behind won't be back, usually. i'm sure it's happened, just not among anybody I've known.


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## Norba_racer

Well I am glad it has happened now and not 10 years from now. I think she has a few years remaining to look good and then bye bye. Plus after this guy gives her the boot, I buy another house and she is left alone then she will be back. Not that I will have anything to do with her, but I am waiting for that day. As the saying goes the enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

Although, I am talking to the board of directors about him and hope they will fire him. It will be perfect timing.....he just bought a new BMW. HAHAHAHA All the other tennis complexes around here have already hired their tennis instructors for the summer too. SOL for him. Just hope it happens.

I will keep you all posted as this unfolds.


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## aine

happyman64 said:


> Norba
> 
> She is selfish, selfish, selfish.
> 
> Do yourself a favor.
> 
> Make sure your half of the finances are secure.
> 
> Because while you may do the heavy lifting she will be getting the new boobs, lips and butt.
> 
> And someone else will be appreciating it.
> 
> So do not let her do it on your dime.
> 
> And if anyone goes it is her. Wanna know why? Because your kids will need you. Becauseyour wife will be ignoring them because she is on FB, texting or match.com.
> 
> So be careful, protect you and the kids.
> 
> And be prepared to see her become someone you barely recognize.
> 
> Hang tough. And deploy the VARS.
> 
> HM64


I have read through all the posts so far and a part of the puzzle seems to be missing. It is not clearly evident that the wife is actually cheating. Maybe she is having a MLC or perimenopausal episode but the resounding response is she is a selfish lying cheat. I would like to ask Norba if he has done anything to precipitate this behaviour?
Wives put up with alot of crap for years in their marriages and hit a point when they decide to be 'bad' to see if the husband will wake up and pull his weight. Unfortunately, the wake up call required often involves changing her appearance, partying all night, drinking, having affairs, not coming home, etc. All quite useless and damaging but the behaviour comes from desperation and they do get the husband to pay attention. I am surprised Machi (being the expert) have not considered this angle. I fear that giving advice based on your own experiences only are dangerous and misleading. Only Norba knows his wife and how she got to this point. No wife suddenly changes overnight, the reality more than often is that the husband wasn't paying any attention for a long time and hence the shock. I think you (Norba) have to relook at your own role in these circumstances.

I would suggest you watch the you tube clip on "signs your marriage is over" by Barry Bilotta Good luck!


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## aine

stupid me ....old post


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