# How kinky are Born-Agains??



## DaKarmaTrain!

Ok, hypothetical situation here:

I meet a hot girl who is a very strong born-again Christian. We date, we fall in love and we get married.

We wait until the wedding night to consumate our relationship. Obviously from person to person sexual tastes/prowess in the sack will differ. But are there 'guidelines' a born-again Christian will not cross in sexual relations with a spouse?

I'm not talking rape-fantasies or anything that is way out there. But what about oral/anal sex? Mutual masterbation? For instance would a really strong Christian wife be against anal sex with the sin of sodomy in the bible and what not? What about role-playing? Would that be considered sinful as the two of you are pretending to be people you are not, and in effect, lusting after someone else and commiting adultery/fornication in your heart etc etc etc? 

Or in a marriage is it a free-for-all in terms of what you and your wife can/can't do in the marital bed?


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## Maricha75

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Ok, hypothetical situation here:
> 
> I meet a hot girl who is a very strong born-again Christian. We date, we fall in love and we get married.
> 
> We wait until the wedding night to consumate our relationship. Obviously from person to person sexual tastes/prowess in the sack will differ. But are there 'guidelines' a born-again Christian will not cross in sexual relations with a spouse?


Can't speak for ALL, obviously, but here are the answers in my marriage.



DaKarmaTrain! said:


> I'm not talking rape-fantasies or anything that is way out there.


This would definitely be a "no way" for us. A little hair pulling, spanking is fine, but not getting carried away.



DaKarmaTrain! said:


> But what about oral/anal sex?


Oral - yes
Anal - no



DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Mutual masterbation?


Probably would if my husband was up for it, but otherwise, no. Most Christians I know still adhere to "no masturbation"



DaKarmaTrain! said:


> For instance would a really strong Christian wife be against anal sex with the sin of sodomy in the bible and what not?


I think that's probably likely for some. Others, it is the risk factors that come with anal sex, including pain, tearing, infections, etc.



DaKarmaTrain! said:


> What about role-playing? Would that be considered sinful as the two of you are pretending to be people you are not, and in effect, lusting after someone else and commiting adultery/fornication in your heart etc etc etc?


No role-playing here. Pretty much the reason you said. I mean, dressing up in sexy lingerie is fine, but to pretend you are a specific actress or actor or whatever, even the girl at the local Starbuck's... no.

In addition to this, no third, fourth, etc. parties involved either.



DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Or in a marriage is it a free-for-all in terms of what you and your wife can/can't do in the marital bed?


Not a free-for-all, but I think it is best if you make your preferences known ahead of time so you aren't blindsided after the vows. Some are even strictly against toys, some are not. As you said at the beginning "each is different".


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## DaKarmaTrain!

Thank you for your response Maricha75. Third, fourth parties would be absolutely out of the question here as well.

In terms of the role-playing, I didn't mean to suggest specifically identifying with a specific person in a fantasy (like you said an actor/actress etc) but as an unindentifiable non-person? Would it still be sinful to pretend to be the naughty nurse servicing a terminally ill patient without pretending to be anyone other than yourselves?

Maybe just an IMO, but interesting nonetheless.


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## Maricha75

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Thank you for your response Maricha75. Third, fourth parties would be absolutely out of the question here as well.
> 
> In terms of the role-playing, I didn't mean to suggest specifically identifying with a specific person in a fantasy (like you said an actor/actress etc) but as an unindentifiable non-person? Would it still be sinful to pretend to be the naughty nurse servicing a terminally ill patient without pretending to be anyone other than yourselves?
> 
> Maybe just an IMO, but interesting nonetheless.


Can't say for anyone else, but for me, it's a no-go. Well, I could probably do the nurse thing since I went to school to become a nurse (just never actually finished that course) and I am the family "go-to" for ailments before the go to the doctor...go figure lol. But I wouldn't be comfortable doing the schoolgirl thing or any others which aren't part of me/my personality. But that's JMO.


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## EleGirl

There is not one way of thinking for all who consider themselves 'born again'. Your best bet is to dicuss this with a woman before you get too far down the road to marriage.

Do not assume. For example do not assume that non-born again women enage in anal sex.. very few women will engage is it. It's not as common as porn will lead you to believe.

Each woman is her own person.. so ask her.


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## Lon

I think the answers are going to be ALL OVER the place... depends on how she viewed sex before being born again, depends on how being born again affects her feelings about her sex life before, eg. is she shameful, guilty, feeling sinful? Obviously of she takes her faith quite seriously then she will avoid anything she believes is sinful, and that all depends on her alone, and the level of interaction and preaching style of her congregation and spiritual leadership.

So... can't answer, sorry.


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## Mavash.

I too think the answers are going to be all over the place. Some think all things within the context of marriage are great and others think things like masturbation mutual or not are a no no.

I say this because I've done bible studies geared towards Christian women. I found them to be 'kinda' prudish but that's just me.


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## sandc

My wife is a devout Christian woman and trust me, she's no prude. We love fantasies, masturbation is fine as long as it involves one another. Even if I am not present she thinks about me when she does it which is fine. We don't do anal because we personally find it icky. There is no biblical reason for her to withhold any type of sex from you, assuming you marry.


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## RandomDude

It depends on how conservative HER individual beliefs are, nothing to do with whether they are born again or whatever


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## Lavender&Lace

I would think anything between a husband and wife that is mutally consensual would be fine. Ideally, it would be best to discuss the details before getting married.


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## wiigirl

Mavash. said:


> I too think the answers are going to be all over the place. Some think all things within the context of marriage are great and others think things like masturbation mutual or not are a no no.
> 
> I say this because I've done bible studies geared towards Christian women. I found them to be 'kinda' prudish but that's just me.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

I think to assume what ALL people of a certain faith are like will likely get you into trouble unless their faith flat out dictates what should and should not be done and the believer wishes to adhere to those tenets

I would think that some would be very comfortable and enthusiastic about sex within marriage and others have hang ups and taboos. While most would fall somewhere in the middle.

Just like the rest of humanity


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## Maneo

EleGirl said:


> There is not one way of thinking for all who consider themselves 'born again'. Your best bet is to dicuss this with a woman before you get too far down the road to marriage.
> 
> Do not assume. For example do not assume that non-born again women enage in anal sex.. very few women will engage is it. It's not as common as porn will lead you to believe.
> 
> Each woman is her own person.. so ask her.


What EleGirl said.


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## Created2Write

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Ok, hypothetical situation here:
> 
> I meet a hot girl who is a very strong born-again Christian. We date, we fall in love and we get married.
> 
> We wait until the wedding night to consumate our relationship. Obviously from person to person sexual tastes/prowess in the sack will differ. But are there 'guidelines' a born-again Christian will not cross in sexual relations with a spouse?
> 
> I'm not talking rape-fantasies or anything that is way out there. But what about oral/anal sex? Mutual masterbation? For instance would a really strong Christian wife be against anal sex with the sin of sodomy in the bible and what not? What about role-playing? Would that be considered sinful as the two of you are pretending to be people you are not, and in effect, lusting after someone else and commiting adultery/fornication in your heart etc etc etc?
> 
> Or in a marriage is it a free-for-all in terms of what you and your wife can/can't do in the marital bed?


The Bible says that the marriage bed is undefiled. In premarital counciling our Pastor said that that basically means, so long as both spouses consent to the actions being done, and no outside party is ever included, anything goes. 

Anal sex is tricky. Some women love it. Others, like me, have tried it and hate it. It can hurt a lot, plain and simple. But each woman will be different. 

Oral, on the other hand, is something I practice regularly in my marriage. But again, each woman will be different. Roleplay is interesting. My husband and I roleplay, and who we're playing aren't always married. However, _he and I_ are married, so even if the people we're playing out, I don't see how that could be considered fornication. It's a fantasy, at best, but it's still being acted out with your spouse. 

I say, it's all good.  So long as she is comfortable with what's being done. 

Also, I striptease for my husband and he and I were raised in church, and serve Christ.  Some of us can be really kinky.


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## Almostrecovered

Noah liked ball gags, true story


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## Created2Write

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Thank you for your response Maricha75. Third, fourth parties would be absolutely out of the question here as well.
> 
> In terms of the role-playing, I didn't mean to suggest specifically identifying with a specific person in a fantasy (like you said an actor/actress etc) but as an unindentifiable non-person? Would it still be sinful to pretend to be the naughty nurse servicing a terminally ill patient without pretending to be anyone other than yourselves?
> 
> Maybe just an IMO, but interesting nonetheless.


This is what my husband and I do. We create fictitious people, sometimes who even have our names, and play out dates and such. It's fun. Hubs doesn't care much for it, since he doesn't think he's a good actor. I love it though. 

Also, mutual masturbation is a heck yes for us.


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## Dr. Rockstar

sandc said:


> There is no biblical reason for her to withhold any type of sex from you, assuming you marry.


This. :iagree: There're verses that actually backs this philosophy up.


> The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs. The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations...
> 1 Corinthians 7:1-5 (NLT)


 Sexual preferences really depend on personal values of the person in question. I think this is generally molded by the individual church that person goes to, since there are Believers out there that just accept what others in the church say without challenging it.

But no, there is no biblical reason for withholding sex, and just about everything else is acceptable at the discretion of the couple.


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## Cee Paul

EleGirl said:


> There is not one way of thinking for all who consider themselves 'born again'. Your best bet is to dicuss this with a woman before you get too far down the road to marriage.
> 
> Do not assume. For example do not assume that non-born again women enage in anal sex.. *very few women will engage is it*. It's not as common as porn will lead you to believe.
> 
> Each woman is her own person.. so ask her.


I have been with 4 women in my lifetime and not one would even _consider_ anything that had to with anal sex, and I have heard of many other women who refused to as well so you are right about that I believe.


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## hope4family

I just want to drive this point home. I am assuming in this scenario that at least YOU were sexually active at one point in your life or another. 

Communication is going to be the key here. The rest is not relevant. You need to be able to discuss everything. In my mind a woman who cannot communicate sex openly is probably going to have more barriers then the norm. YMMV and yes when they become active that all might change. 

Really its a crapshoot, but if the person you are "into" is very open, honest, and really excited/willing to try anything then you have a potential gold mine.


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## DTO

Dr. Rockstar said:


> This. :iagree: There're verses that actually backs this philosophy up. Sexual preferences really depend on personal values of the person in question. I think this is generally molded by the individual church that person goes to, since there are Believers out there that just accept what others in the church say without challenging it.
> 
> But no, there is no biblical reason for withholding sex, and just about everything else is acceptable at the discretion of the couple.


Totally agree.

Unfortunately, many people choose to ignore this part of Scripture in their marriage. Some allege that sex is commanded only for lack of self control, and thus the solution is to tame one's sexual urges instead of expecting release (which is misreading the relevant passages). Some wives, notably, say that the command to love your wife as Christ loves the church means you cannot press her on sex (again, not true).

The way to handle this is exactly the same as in the secular realm. You make your needs and expectations known beforehand, along with a clear message that those will be ongoing, not temporary and not a "phase".


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## Created2Write

DTO said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> Unfortunately, many people choose to ignore this part of Scripture in their marriage. Some allege that sex is commanded only for lack of self control, and thus the solution is to tame one's sexual urges instead of expecting release (which is misreading the relevant passages). Some wives, notably, say that the command to love your wife as Christ loves the church means you cannot press her on sex (again, not true).
> 
> The way to handle this is exactly the same as in the secular realm. You make your needs and expectations known beforehand, along with a clear message that those will be ongoing, not temporary and not a "phase".


I can't tell you how many times I have seen that this is true. Biblically speaking, the women I have known who fight against the importance of sex in a marriage use the verse where Paul says it's better not to marry unless one burns with passion. Which is a complete misinterpretation of that verse. 

In actuality, sexual relations between a husband and a wife is incredibly encouraged in the Bible. Moreover it is said _not_ to deny one another.


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## Runs like Dog

Many saved people I've met were ex biker ex street person types so being kind of freaky came naturally to them.


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## Cosmos

Perhaps this might help, OP:- Permitted or Prohibited: Bible Principles for Sex Practices


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## Dr. Rockstar

I think the worst part of the "sex only for breeding" mindset isn't the women who close off relations, but their men taking Ephesians 5:25 too literally. They read 'submit to your husbands,' and think that means submit in every occasion, including sex. These husbands expect that their women will give them sex whenever the man needs it, however he needs it, whether she wants to or not. In their minds, the don't care if the woman has any say in it, nor do they care if they enjoy it.


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## 33N 96W

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> ...But what about oral/anal sex? Mutual masterbation? For instance would a really strong Christian wife be against anal sex with the sin of sodomy in the bible and what not? What about role-playing? Would that be considered sinful as the two of you are pretending to be people you are not, and in effect, lusting after someone else and commiting adultery/fornication in your heart etc etc etc?
> 
> Or in a marriage is it a free-for-all in terms of what you and your wife can/can't do in the marital bed?


IMHO, 
Oral sex is not prohibited in the Bible. Several Denton, TX pastors teach a study in the Song of Solomon (youtube) which is supposedly sprinkled with oral sex euphemisms. If you want to watch Bible teacher nearly go in cardiac arrest suggest Song of Solomon as the next book to study.

Masturbation is not prohibited in the Bible. What is prohibited is fantasizing sexual relations with someone other than your spouse while masturbating or any other time. The Bible specifics certain sexual acts as sin. No where in the Bible is masturbation mentioned. God did not "forget" to prohibit masturbation let alone mention it. And no HE was not vocabulary limited. The sin of Onan often used (inaccurately) as an anti-masturbation reference was the sin of disobedience. 

Regarding a statement like this,
"Masturbation is almost invariably sinful because it will be coupled with lustful thoughts." 

I am often tempted to ask, 
"Sir are you speaking from experience?" 

Regarding anal sex. Sodom's first sin was the way they treated strangers coming to their town. The threat of men gang raping two strangers was the specific sin. IMHO if the wife says anal is OK, it is OK. (My wife (a virgin) suggested anal on our 2nd night of the honeymoon due to soreness. We tired it but I wasn't invited back .)

Regarding Christians and sex, if it is legal we do it and many do it with great vigor!

_What the Bible says and what some folks wish it said are often quite different._


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## Sweetmaya

Whatever you do, TALK, DISCUSS these concerns BEFORE marriage. If not you are going to be posting in another thread about how fed up you are because your partner doesn't do this or that. 

In the other hand... Please, Please do not let these religious, sometimes man-interpreted guilt ruin your marriage. I know of women that were taught not to act freakish in the bedroom because they were expected to act like they were doing it in the sanctuary!!!

As long as you and your spouse communicate and agree, go on and be as freaky as your heart desire.


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## Dr. Rockstar

I agree with Sweetmaya. Unfortunately for many Christians like myself who remain abstinent before marriage, we can't really talk about what we'd like to see in the bedroom because we simply don't know what we like. For me it turned out that my wife, who had more experience than I, preferred plain vanilla sex, while I wanted to be more experimental. That's frustrated me a lot over the years (just check out some of the threads I've started). There are a lot of times when I wish I did have sex before marriage, just so I could have enough experience to have that discussion with my wife.


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## CAN52

DaKarmaTrain!

She is obviously fallen enough as a Christian to marry you. Then she is willing to follow you into sexual desire. Three simple biblical boundaries:

1. Keep it between the two of you only.
2.	Keep it respectful, meaning mutually desirable, meaning without dishonor to one another.
3.	Do not deny one another, meaning making sex a weapon.


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## 28down

All is well within the confines of your marriage and with consent of you spouse!


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## Gabey

My wife is born again and devout Catholic as they come (I'm just the opposite). Some things are off limits to her - like anal, but not for religious reasons. Watching porn may be the only thing that has her uneasy because of religion.

She told me once that she believes God condones all that a married man and his wife do together in their bedroom.

She is very reluctant to share her experiences and fantasies with me, but will do most of what I want in bed. I am the more creative one even though she has more experience than me. For her, there was sex before being born again.

We were extremely attracted to each other, but while dating I thought sex and kinkiness would be off limits. To my surprise (and pleasure), nothing could be further from the truth.

But every individual is different. Hollywood stomps all over the reputation of Christians while canonizing pedophiles like Woody Allen & Roman Pulanski. Don't believe their tripe!


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## anxiousbones

Great question. You should read Song of Solomon (book of the Bible) for some idea of how God wants us to enjoy our spouse. There's some pretty passionate stuff in there, and I'm pretty sure they include oral sex.

Also when you are in a relationship and moving towards marriage, I highly recommend getting a copy of "Sheet Music" and both of you read it. I buy it for all my engaged friends.


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## RoninJedi

I'll just throw in my $0.02 here.

My wife and I are Christians (I'm a pastor) and have a pretty good sex life. Sometimes it's kinky and dirty. Maybe a little rough, some sexy dress-up, oral, even anal (rare occasions). Sometimes it's just "normal" I guess you'd say. It really depends on what we're in the mood for and (having 3 kids) what we have time for.

Bottom line - your bodies are designed to fit together for a reason. You are to *enjoy* each other's bodies. When the two of you come together, you are absolutely free to do whatever you want as long as 

1.) It's just the two of you
2.) You both agree (i.e. no one's being guilted into it with that "if you loved me, you'd do it" crap)
3.) No one's getting hurt

As long as those 3 conditions are met, then by all means have at it!


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## Fozzy

RoninJedi said:


> I'll just throw in my $0.02 here.
> 
> My wife and I are Christians (I'm a pastor) and have a pretty good sex life. Sometimes it's kinky and dirty. Maybe a little rough, some sexy dress-up, oral, even anal (rare occasions). Sometimes it's just "normal" I guess you'd say. It really depends on what we're in the mood for and (having 3 kids) what we have time for.
> 
> Bottom line - your bodies are designed to fit together for a reason. You are to *enjoy* each other's bodies. When the two of you come together, you are absolutely free to do whatever you want as long as
> 
> 1.) It's just the two of you
> 2.) You both agree (i.e. no one's being guilted into it with that "if you loved me, you'd do it" crap)
> 3.) No one's getting hurt
> 
> As long as those 3 conditions are met, then by all means have at it!


Couldn't have said it any better.


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## bandit.45

sandc said:


> My wife is a devout Christian woman and trust me, she's no prude. We love fantasies, masturbation is fine as long as it involves one another. Even if I am not present she thinks about me when she does it which is fine. We don't do anal because we personally find it icky. There is no biblical reason for her to withhold any type of sex from you, assuming you marry.


"Sodomy" in the Bible generally refers to homosexuality in general, rather than the act of anal intercourse, since that scientific term did not exist during the time of King James. 

Here is the closet the Bible comes to in saying what kind of sex a man and wife can have: 



> 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 ESV
> Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.


So essentially, the Bible deals with sex by basically saying it is reserved for married people. That's it. There are no boundaries listed in the Bible which limit the type of sex a husband and wife can have. Which inferrs that, as long as both partners are okay with certain acts, God doesn't stick his nose in it.


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## Lordhavok

I'm with bandit on this one, "sodomy" was a reference to homosexual activity. Between man and woman, I think its all good. And as a side note, some of the biggest perverts I've ever met where christians.


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## sandc

bandit.45 said:


> "Sodomy" in the Bible generally refers to homosexuality in general, rather than the act of anal intercourse, since that scientific term did not exist during the time of King James.
> 
> Here is the closet the Bible comes to in saying what kind of sex a man and wife can have:
> 
> 
> 
> So essentially, the Bible deals with sex by basically saying it is reserved for married people. That's it. There are no boundaries listed in the Bible which limit the type of sex a husband and wife can have. Which inferrs that, as long as both partners are okay with certain acts, God doesn't stick his nose in it.


And to clarify... I never said the Bible forbids anal sex between husband and wife... I said my wife and I find it icky. That's us, not Scripture.  Like I said in my original post, there is no BIBLICAL reason for a woman to withhold any type of sex from her husband. As long as all the requirements you outlined are met, have at it!

Besides, I'm sure we do some things that other folks would find 'icky'.


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## Lon

*Re: Re: How kinky are Born-Agains??*



Lordhavok said:


> I'm with bandit on this one, "sodomy" was a reference to homosexual activity. Between man and woman, I think its all good. And as a side note, some of the biggest perverts I've ever met where christians.


To be more accurate it says between husband and wife. As for me, I'm more pervy largely because my Christian mother wanted me to be pure and straight, but it has worked out for the best because my gf like me being a pervert.


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## OhGeesh

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Ok, hypothetical situation here:
> 
> I meet a hot girl who is a very strong born-again Christian. We date, we fall in love and we get married.
> 
> We wait until the wedding night to consumate our relationship. Obviously from person to person sexual tastes/prowess in the sack will differ. But are there 'guidelines' a born-again Christian will not cross in sexual relations with a spouse?
> 
> I'm not talking rape-fantasies or anything that is way out there. But what about oral/anal sex? Mutual masterbation? For instance would a really strong Christian wife be against anal sex with the sin of sodomy in the bible and what not? What about role-playing? Would that be considered sinful as the two of you are pretending to be people you are not, and in effect, lusting after someone else and commiting adultery/fornication in your heart etc etc etc?
> 
> Or in a marriage is it a free-for-all in terms of what you and your wife can/can't do in the marital bed?


There is no right answer I'm sure you know that, right? The only real hangups I see are obviously no cursing or filthy role play and anal may pose some problems........which for many the latter does anyway.

Other than that it's all about communication. As long as your hope isn't to say things like "Su$k this d$ck you *****" I'm sure it will be fine!!


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## bandit.45

sandc said:


> And to clarify... I never said the Bible forbids anal sex between husband and wife... I said my wife and I find it icky. That's us, not Scripture.  Like I said in my original post, there is no BIBLICAL reason for a woman to withhold any type of sex from her husband. As long as all the requirements you outlined are met, have at it!
> 
> Besides, I'm sure we do some things that other folks would find 'icky'.


I don't like AS either.


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## bandit.45

anxiousbones said:


> Great question. You should read Song of Solomon (book of the Bible) for some idea of how God wants us to enjoy our spouse. There's some pretty passionate stuff in there, and I'm pretty sure they include oral sex.
> 
> Also when you are in a relationship and moving towards marriage, I highly recommend getting a copy of "Sheet Music" and both of you read it. I buy it for all my engaged friends.


what I always understood about Song of Solomon, is that it is a love poem on two levels. 

On the surface level, it is love poems between Solomon and one of his wives, where he is basically seducing her. Then on the spiritual level, the S of S is the love song between God and Israel, speaking about how God wishes to have spiritual intimacy with his people.

Later, after Jesus' death and resurrection, and the passing of the new covenant to believers, the S of S is expanded to the love affair between Jesus and his Church.


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## DTO

bandit.45 said:


> what I always understood about Song of Solomon, is that it is a love poem on two levels.
> 
> On the surface level, it is love poems between Solomon and one of his wives, where he is basically seducing her. Then on the spiritual level, the S of S is the love song between God and Israel, speaking about how God wishes to have spiritual intimacy with his people.
> 
> Later, after Jesus' death and resurrection, and the passing of the new covenant to believers, the S of S is expanded to the love affair between Jesus and his Church.


It's worth noting that some Christians deny the sexual aspect of this book. That is, some will claim that this book is strictly a metaphor about the relationship between Jesus and his Church, and has nothing to do with sex.

I strongly disagree, and YMMV as well. But, there it is.


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## SimplyAmorous

I never liked the term "Born Again".. I tried to be a christian when dating, when we married.. probably not a very good one....

I was pretty vanilla minded.. .we didn't talk about sex... he was vanilla too, even though he could have cared less about Belief...he was just a good guy....if I could go back in time.... I would have read many more books, secular even to open up a variety of ways we could have pleased each other... Unfortunately -In *my* head.... I associated Oral sex with what Porn women do... or Bad girls..... 

...Had I read a few books like this back then...it could have really opened my eyes....to how these things are beautiful & encouraged within marriage also... 

Sheet Music: Uncovering the Secrets of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage: Kevin Leman: 

Under the Sheets: The Secrets to Hot Sex in Your Marriage: 

The Good Girl's Guide to Great Sex: (And You Thought Bad Girls Have All the Fun): Books

Speaking for us...He was content.. I was content .... but looking back.. I feel we missed a lot of FUN... so trying to make up for it in Mid Life... 

This is the largest christian sex forum on the net... I bet many questions similar to this have been asked....

 The Marriage Bed - sex and Intimacy for Christians


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## arbitrator

*As a Christian, I feel that there is nothing really wrong with the term "born again." In fact, it is scripturally correct. I could cite it verbatim, but I don't really think that doing so in this particular thread would be all that relevant.

That being said, I don't think that God designed us physically to be a bunch of prudes or Victorians. He gave us the gift of sex chiefly for procreation, but secondarily for pleasure. It is that "pleasure principle" if you will, that keeps the lines open for the procreation end of things.

I really feel that God gave us the sexual ability to love each other with as a near infinite passion as he possibly could. But He gave us that greatly under the guise that it was to be done within the framework of a loving, committed, and married relationship. And it was to be done whereby one partner, while seeking a loving sexual gratification of his own, would not come to offend his partner in obtaining that and vice-versa; always striving to maintain an aura of trust between each other that there would be no other participants in this union, and that the union itself lent psychological as well as physiological protection to the partners.

And just as God's love for us is totally boundless, so it is that He wanted our marital/relationship with each other to mirror that love as much as humanly possible. 

The way I see it, for as long as we subscribe to those tenants, and for as long as we continue to offer our eternal abiding love to our partners and continue to protect them, and them us, then "the sky is the limit" for as long as we don't violate our partners physical(hurt/pain) or mental trust(infidelity/breach of security)!*


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## LostViking

DTO said:


> It's worth noting that some Christians deny the sexual aspect of this book. That is, some will claim that this book is strictly a metaphor about the relationship between Jesus and his Church, and has nothing to do with sex.
> 
> I strongly disagree, and YMMV as well. But, there it is.


What is so unique about the Bible, is that many versus such as those in the S of S have multi-level meanings... both referring to physical and the spiritual.


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## sandc

LostViking said:


> What is so unique about the Bible, is that many versus such as those in the S of S have multi-level meanings... both referring to physical and the spiritual.


And some you have to think about in this day. For instance, "you are like a mare among Pharaoh's chariots" What would that mean to anyone today? But if you know that the Pharaoh only had stallions to pull his chariots, and if you knew what a ruckus it would cause to have one mare among hundreds of stallions... well then you'd see what the author of that particular love poem was getting at.

Translated to today: "You are so hot you drive every man crazy!"


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## Rev. Clonn

The two purposes of sexual congress are to procreate and to bring together the flesh of a man and wife into one. Anything that helps in those purposes is valid and approved sex. When you are with your wife and you both like something that either draws you together or aids in producing children then it is good. So go forth and multiply, or at least practice multiplying.


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## bandit.45

God created us to get jiggy wid it.


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## over20

I will do anything for DH and he loves it......all within the bounds of Scripture of course


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## Tony Conrad

I am kinky as ever but my wife is not. However she is comforable with doing the main thing I like and even need.

However she is not comforable with oral, anal, toys, roleplay etc. but one has to respect that.


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## arbitrator

*There was a book out not too awfully long ago about Christian Marriage and Sex. I wish that I could remember what it was called. But within those bounds that were expounded upon in that book, God simply did not intend for us to be "prudes," but much rather, to be fruitful and multiply. And there is a semblance of order and a sense of decorum in which He wants it all done.

The largest of which is that we will not knowingly offer to offend our spouse nor should they ever offer to offend us, as love should be freely, lovingly, unselfishly and unfearfully given to each other.

If the spouses truly know, respect, and love each other and truly want to monogamously pleasure one another, then there should be absolutely no bounds within their sexual regimen, other than perhaps for inviting in third parties into the their monogamous, heartfelt, and loving relationship!

And I, for one, ain't exactly into that!*


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## sandc

Sex and the Supremacy of Christ by John Piper is an excellent book on all sexual topics. Especially good sections for married men and women. But it also has sections for singles.


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## arbitrator

sandc said:


> Sex and the Supremacy of Christ by John Piper is an excellent book on all sexual topics. Especially good sections for married men and women. But it also has sections for singles.


*Damn, Sandy! That's the book! Thanks for reminding me!*


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## sandc

All part of the service.


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## Tony Conrad

So what does the book say about kink as this is the subject of the forum?


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## sandc

Well what does kink mean as what is kinky to you may be plain vanilla to me?


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## Tony Conrad

Youv'e got me there. I suppose it is what is in one's mind. I suppose it means different or not the norm in the bedroom. Something you would want to keep really private between you because others might judge it differently or get the wrong idea because of associations they have read about which might not be the case at all.


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## sandc

Exactly. *This* Christian couple is as kinky as they want to be. :smthumbup: Anything we choose to do within the bounds of our marriage (just between her and I) is generally okay.

The question as asked, "how kinky are Born-Agains?" Well really, the answer is, as kinky as everyone else. And all that that implies. Now if the question were, "how kinky are Born-Agains allowed to be based upon the Bible?" That would open up a whole different dialog.

And from my point of view, that answer to that question is, anything that happens between a husband and wife, that doesn't bring third parties to the marriage, and is not perceived by either partner as harmful or demeaning, then it's completely okay. Have fun! Kink it up!


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## arbitrator

sandc said:


> Exactly. *This* Christian couple is as kinky as they want to be. :smthumbup: Anything we choose to do within the bounds of our marriage (just between her and I) is generally okay.
> 
> The question as asked, "how kinky are Born-Agains?" Well really, the answer is, as kinky as everyone else. And all that that implies. Now if the question were, "how kinky are Born-Agains allowed to be based upon the Bible?" That would open up a whole different dialog.
> 
> And from my point of view, that answer to that question is, anything that happens between a husband and wife, that doesn't bring third parties to the marriage, and is not perceived by either partner as harmful or demeaning, then it's completely okay. Have fun! Kink it up!


*Amen, Brother!*


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## Tony Conrad

Wow thank you for that. That is very helpful. Thank you both.


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## over20

Tony Conrad said:


> I am kinky as ever but my wife is not. However she is comforable with doing the main thing I like and even need.
> 
> However she is not comforable with oral, anal, toys, roleplay etc. but one has to respect that.


Is your wife open to reading books on marital sex from a Christian perspective? That is what changed me. Maybe, if she is open to it, the two of you could spend "devotion time" reading a chapter at a time drawing the two of you closer together. She may learn some new things and also gets to spend time with her Dh.


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## Philat

Lord have mercy.


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## arbitrator

Philat said:


> Lord have mercy.


*Yes, Dear Lord! You have my permission to please just let some good-looking Christian woman get as totally unreligious as she wants to with me!*


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## minimalME

Kinky enough that there are often thoughts going through my mind that will forever be kept only between me and God.


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## sandc

It's not what a lady reveals that makes her sexy it's what she keeps hidden.


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## SimplyAmorous

arbitrator said:


> *There was a book out not too awfully long ago about Christian Marriage and Sex. I wish that I could remember what it was called. But within those bounds that were espoused in that book, God simply did not intend for us to be "prudes," but much rather, to be fruitful and multiply. And there is a semblance of order and a sense of decorum in which He wants it all done*.


Here are some other good Christian sex Books.... 

*1*. Sheet Music: Uncovering the Secrets of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage: Kevin Leman: Books

*2.* Intended for Pleasure: Sex Technique and Sexual Fulfillment in Christian Marriage: Books

*3.* Under the Sheets: The Secrets to Hot Sex in Your Marriage 

*4.* The Good Girl's Guide to Great Sex: (And You Thought Bad Girls Have All the Fun): Books

Personally I'd rather read something like this -written by a Sex therapist...one of my favorites..

Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man: Ian Kerner: Books



> Transform Yourself from "Passion Victim" to Passionista!
> 
> In the smash hit "_She Comes First_", Ian Kerner singlehandedly waged battle against male sexual "ill-cliteracy," and women everywhere benefited from his "viva la vulva" philosophy of female pleasure.
> 
> Now, in Passionista, it's time to learn all about what turns men on—and makes them stay on. In this point-by-point, "blow-by-blow" guide, Kerner makes giving as much fun as receiving as he covers every angle of male sexuality, unlocks the secrets of satisfaction, and offers knowledgeable answers to the questions every woman wonders about. His advice is the closest you'll ever come to waking up in a guy's skin and knowing what truly makes him sexually tick.
> 
> Written in the same witty, insightful, and utterly readable voice that has made She Comes First and Be Honest—You're Not That Into Him Either so popular, Passionista is the empowered woman's guide to enjoying sex to the fullest—and ensuring that he does the same.


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## Adeline

whoa, this is a really old thread. But, I gotta say, this is a common misconception. I am a Christian, and I would role play with my husband and had "dress up" skimpy outfits like a cop, school girl, etc I felt no guilt in that! Mutual masturbation, check. Oral, check. Pretty much the only thing that would be off limits because of my beliefs (and personal morals) would be a threesome. Otherwise, I like me some kink and fantasies.


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## Tony Conrad

over20 said:


> Is your wife open to reading books on marital sex from a Christian perspective? That is what changed me. Maybe, if she is open to it, the two of you could spend "devotion time" reading a chapter at a time drawing the two of you closer together. She may learn some new things and also gets to spend time with her Dh.


She doesn't seek those books but has kind of read one I suggested. I don't think that is the main problem. I think handling my own kinkyness is. Whether it's right or wrong and if she does it to please me and how much she actually enjoys it like I do. She does very well actually. Surprisingly so, even though she is not comfortable wih oral or anal etc.


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## over20

Tony Conrad said:


> She doesn't seek those books but has kind of read one I suggested. I don't think that is the main problem. I think handling my own kinkyness is. Whether it's right or wrong and if she does it to please me and how much she actually enjoys it like I do. She does very well actually. Surprisingly so, even though she is not comfortable wih oral or anal etc.


I think it is about baby steps. Sounds like it's working for you two. Try not to judge yourself to harshly about kinkiness. Maybe don't even use that word. It is about what you sexually desire and need.


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## Tony Conrad

Thank you. I suppose I can overact to some peoples negative views instead of putting into action my personal faith between just us two.


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## over20

God made sex between a husband and wife. The world twisted it. Their is no shame what a wife desires or what a husband desires.


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## Fozzy

The Song of Solomon pretty much lays it out. Married people are supposed to have sex and enjoy it. That book gives a pretty good blueprint of how a married couple should behave toward each other, sexually and romantically, and NOWHERE int is is any prohibition on any kind of position, equipment, costumes, etc. Basically, everything's on the table between a husband and wife, as long as they both enjoy it.


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## over20

Fozzy said:


> The Song of Solomon pretty much lays it out. Married people are supposed to have sex and enjoy it. That book gives a pretty good blueprint of how a married couple should behave toward each other, sexually and romantically, and NOWHERE int is is any prohibition on any kind of position, equipment, costumes, etc. Basically, everything's on the table between a husband and wife, as long as they both enjoy it.


Great point!!! I have often told myself If God took the time to write a whole book on married sex, it must be very important.

The so very frustrating thing is that the church raises us, especially young women, to resist and say no....but then fails us at the altar when we are suppose to go from "NO" to "HO" for our DH's.......a woman cannot just change overnight...even amongst the Christian girlfriends I have it's all about piety and good works, none of them would ever make a comment or have a discussion about sex....it is STILL so TABOO......I as a Christian woman feel very alone on this issue...I have even lost a girlfriend over topics about married sex.....she told me I was to worldly for performing oral on hubs.....:scratchhead:


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## Fozzy

Depends a lot on your denomination, and specific congregation in some cases. I grew up in a church also that taught that sex is dirty, evil, & gross, and that you should save it for the one you really love (ha, ha). The church i'm attending now has a very much different take on it and is very pro-marriage and pro-sex (marital sex, anyway). 

My wife grew up catholic, but was never really devout. We did not save ourselves for marriage. Even though we both grew up in churches that didn't exactly preach from Song of Solomon much, we were both fortunate enough to not end up with a lot of religious baggage. Our baggage is entirely secular.


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## over20

Thank you Fozzy. We are Lutheran. I was raised VERY strict which didn't help either. Maybe it is just my church but there is no support for marital sexuality, let alone female sexuality. I have had to change my character and views myself through outside reading from Christian authors.


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## arbitrator

over20 said:


> Thank you Fozzy. We are Lutheran. I was raised VERY strict which didn't help either. Maybe it is just my church but there is no support for marital sexuality, let alone female sexuality. I have had to change my character and views myself through outside reading from Christian authors.


*Lutheran? Missouri Synod or the American Evangelical?*


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## over20

Lcms.......


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## Fozzy

over20 said:


> Thank you Fozzy. We are Lutheran. I was raised VERY strict which didn't help either. Maybe it is just my church but there is no support for marital sexuality, let alone female sexuality. I have had to change my character and views myself through outside reading from Christian authors.


I'd encourage you to find a church that values marriage, and not just pre-marital chastity. I think one of the areas that MANY churches let down their congregations in is that they focus their efforts on making sure people know what the right thing to do is right up until the point that you say "I do", then you're on your own. As everyone here well knows, marriage can be exceedingly difficult, and having a church that recognizes that and will help support its married parishioners can be a great service.


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## roseblssm6

I think it varies from person to person and what their church taught etc. My husband and I both were raised pretty conservative. He has had alot of guilt in the past, particularly early in our relationship about kinky sex stuff (fantasies, anal, all the normal kinky stuff) but has loosened up a bit. I've always enjoyed sex and what I liked and I don't really care about what my religion had to say. I know lots of women in the Christian circles who would never try anal, mutual masturbation, or roleplaying with their spouses because it's lust, or sodomy or whatever. I think if people want to still believe in no premarital sex that's their choice, but anything should go in marriage. People shouldn't have guilt having fun with their partners. I'm no longer Christian (I believe in God) but no longer devout or anything. I think my hubby still has guilt that we had sex before we were married. I feel like alot of churches inadvertently shame sex so much that even when you're married it sticks with you.


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## QuietSoul

I'm a born again Christian, and so is my husband of six years.

As others have said,I can't speak for everyone, but for us:

- Anal no way
- Mutual masturbation fine
- Oral fine
- Threesomes no way
- Role plays don't interest us personally, but I have had certain "types" of men who turn me on. But it's not something I would want to bring into our sex life in terms of fantasy or role play, because I feel it would be using my husbands body to lust after something or someone else when I shod be enjoying intimacy with him. That's my belief, but others may feel differently.

I was wondering if you could share why you are asking this? Is the hyperthetical situation a real one, or do you have a Christian gal on your radar? If so, it may be worth noting that in principle, Christians would typically only consider Christians for romantic relationships.

I hope my asking this doesn't offend you, but I also wanted to ask if you are trying to find out if the born again Christian scene is a potential pool of repressed nymphos who are down for it. Not saying you are asking for that reason, but I have met visiting men at my old church who I made effort to talk to and welcome them to the church, only to find out they were there to meet horny girls. Lol I have found myself in some very strange situations in church with visiting men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CAN52

Some make a lot of judgments about what the church teaches. What if the church was inconsistent with the Word of God concerning right and wrong sexual behavior inside of marriage? Would it matter to you? Well it would if they were imposing upon your marriage a burden not meant to bare. Say the Bible was liberating to your sex life within your marriage yet you functioned under the premise that you didn’t care if it did or didn’t. Would that not be silly? Say then the Bible condemned some of the things you do? What would you do about that how would you feel? It is important to know what the church believes, yes. But it is vital to know what the Bible says about your bedroom for the purpose of living in the freedom of worship. Without that knowledge you are guessing, acting in ignorance, and missing out on a tremendous blessing in your marriage.
We may say that some things are personal preference. But all things are either right or wrong biblically speaking. That is, I can say that I do not like that sexual practice and so we do not do it. But does the Bible condemn it? And if it does not would that affect my practice of that particular sex act? On the other hand suppose I loved and practiced one thing that the Scriptures condemn? Would I give it up upon learning abut such behavior? What is worse, practicing sex without knowing what God’s Word has to say about it or simply not caring one way or the other what it does say, or not say? 
I think most would be amazed at how few but powerful the sexual regulations are within marriage.


Consequently "Born-Agains", because that is what the OP called them, are not extremely free to be "Kinky". They are extremely free to be free.


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## bandit.45

Im a recovering B.A. Baptist. I'm a horndog and love kinky sex. 

As far as two MARRIED people are concerened, the Bible gives no specific guidelines or taboos as to what a married, consenting, adult couple do in the privacy of their bedroom. 

I thinkonce married, God could care less of what goes on in the bedroom and leaves his kids to our their own devices. It is just not that big of a deal to Him in the grand scheme of the universe.


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## Fozzy

bandit.45 said:


> Im a recovering B.A. Baptist. I'm a horndog and love kinky sex.
> 
> As far as two MARRIED people are concerened, the Bible gives no specific guidelines or taboos as to what a married, consenting, adult couple do in the privacy of their bedroom.
> 
> I thinkonce married, God could care less of what goes on in the bedroom and leaves his kids to our their own devices. It is just not that big of a deal to Him in the grand scheme of the universe.


Exactly. He has bigger fish to fry.


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## CAN52

bandit.45 said:


> Im a recovering B.A. Baptist. I'm a horndog and love kinky sex.
> 
> As far as two MARRIED people are concerened, the Bible gives no specific guidelines or taboos as to what a married, consenting, adult couple do in the privacy of their bedroom.
> 
> I thinkonce married, God could care less of what goes on in the bedroom and leaves his kids to our their own devices. It is just not that big of a deal to Him in the grand scheme of the universe.


Contrary to what you two fellows hold as truth the Bible has a lot to say about sex marriage including the following.

1. Marriage is to be free of immorality and adultery, Heb. 13:14.
2.	Husbands and wives are not to withhold sex from one another except in mutual agreement for reason of prayer, (1 Cor. 7:5). This would also indicate that sex during a wife’s period is not an issue and completely permissible in God’s eyes.
3. etc...

God does not fry fish and does care about the intimate details of our lives. 

Recovery from the Baptist church or continuance in ignorance?

CAN52


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## bandit.45

CAN52 said:


> Contrary to what you two fellows hold as truth the Bible has a lot to say about sex marriage including the following.
> 
> 1. Marriage is to be free of immorality and adultery, Heb. 13:14.
> 2.	Husbands and wives are not to withhold sex from one another except in mutual agreement for reason of prayer, (1 Cor. 7:5). This would also indicate that sex during a wife’s period is not an issue and completely permissible in God’s eyes.
> 3. etc...
> 
> God does not fry fish and does care about the intimate details of our lives.
> 
> *Recovery from the Baptist church or continuance in ignorance*?
> 
> CAN52


Wow..

A little angry are we?


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## ConanHub

CAN52 said:


> Contrary to what you two fellows hold as truth the Bible has a lot to say about sex marriage including the following.
> 
> 1. Marriage is to be free of immorality and adultery, Heb. 13:14.
> 2.	Husbands and wives are not to withhold sex from one another except in mutual agreement for reason of prayer, (1 Cor. 7:5). This would also indicate that sex during a wife’s period is not an issue and completely permissible in God’s eyes.
> 3. etc...
> 
> God does not fry fish and does care about the intimate details of our lives.
> 
> Recovery from the Baptist church or continuance in ignorance?
> 
> CAN52


The Bible does talk about sex but Bandit and Fozzy are right.

BTW if God doesn't fry fish, what does he do with them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink

God is so tired of this hair splitting!


View attachment 20906


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## RClawson

" Marriage is to be free of immorality and adultery"

Care to expound on where it details what is immoral in an intimate marital relationship or do you just want to share what you believe it is?


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## Machiavelli

RClawson said:


> " Marriage is to be free of immorality and adultery"
> 
> Care to expound on where it details what is immoral in an intimate marital relationship or do you just want to share what you believe it is?


I'm guessing the scripture she meant to refer to was Hebrews 13:4 which states "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral."

Adultery is self evident and the "sexually immoral" bit is the Greek word _porneía_. It means "prostitution" but is used in the New Testament as a term for certain sexual sins in Leviticus which, in addition to adultery (defined as wife having sex with male other than husband), include bestiality, male homosexuality, incest, and temple prostitution.


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## Mr Blunt

> *By Can52*
> Contrary to what you two fellows hold as truth the Bible has a lot to say about sex marriage including the following.
> 
> 1. Marriage is to be free of immorality and adultery, Heb. 13:14.
> 2. Husbands and wives are not to withhold sex from one another except in mutual agreement for reason of prayer, (1 Cor. 7:5). This would also indicate that sex during a wife’s period is not an issue and completely permissible in God’s eyes.
> 3. etc...
> 
> God does not fry fish and does care about the intimate details of our lives.
> 
> Recovery from the Baptist church or continuance in ignorance?
> 
> CAN52





I have no problem with those listed above. I don’t think anyone is saying that adultery and withholding sex is ok, *who are you arguing with?*



You asking bandit if he is “…continuance in ignorance?” seems rather condescending. *Why did you ask him that?*


Actually Bandit gave a very good answer on this issue, see below:



> *By Bandit*
> So essentially, the Bible deals with sex by basically saying it is reserved for married people. That's it. There are no boundaries listed in the Bible which limit the type of sex a husband and wife can have.


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## bandit.45

Thanks Blunt. Forgot I posted that. 

Seriously, except for sodomy, bestiality, homosexuality/lesbianism and rape, the Bible has no written expressed guidleines for what a married man and woman can or cannot do in the privacy of their bedroom, as long as they are honoring and loving one another and God at all times, privately and publicly.


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## Theseus

QuietSoul said:


> I also wanted to ask if you are trying to find out if the born again Christian scene is a potential pool of repressed nymphos who are down for it. Not saying you are asking for that reason, but I have met visiting men at my old church who I made effort to talk to and welcome them to the church, only to find out they were there to meet horny girls.


I remember back in college, my friends and I were definitely more interested in the new freshmen girls who came from strict religious families, because those were the ones who went hog wild once they were out of that strict environment. 

Interestingly, I saw the same thing happen in Iraq to female interpreters, once they were living on a US base (in a special section for interpreters) away from their families as well. Some of them would transform and flirt or sleep around with US soldiers, something they wouldn't even consider doing on their side of the fence. 



> _ Lol I have found myself in some very strange situations in church with visiting men._


I think I'd like to here some of those stories sometime. Probably in a different forum though...


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## sandc

*Re: Re: How kinky are Born-Agains??*



bandit.45 said:


> Thanks Blunt. Forgot I posted that.
> 
> Seriously, except for sodomy, bestiality, homosexuality/lesbianism and rape, the Bible has no written expressed guidleines for what a married man and woman can or cannot do in the privacy of their bedroom, as long as they are honoring and loving one another and God at all times, privately and publicly.


Bingo.
Give the man a cigar.


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## over20

bandit.45 said:


> Thanks Blunt. Forgot I posted that.
> 
> Seriously, except for sodomy, bestiality, homosexuality/lesbianism and rape, the Bible has no written expressed guidleines for what a married man and woman can or cannot do in the privacy of their bedroom, as long as they are honoring and loving one another and God at all times, privately and publicly.


It is very freeing...and should make Christians the horniest peeps on the globe!!


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