# Love, Depression, Booze



## Loving Husband

Hello Everybody,


I would like to share a bit of my story cause I have no idea what to do any more. I am almost 40 years old and married 15 years this sept. We have 2 kids one is 8 and the other is almost 1.5 years old. I met my wife when she was only 16 and I was 20. It was a great time. She was wonderful trying to make me happy and I was loving the fact that I found a women who wanted to. Little did I know at the time she was diagnosed with being a co-dependant. She also suffered from low self-esteme. Now my wife is the baby of 4. Her father passed away when she was 8. I think that has a little to do with her issues. I also came from a broken family.. Dad was alcoholic and was never home. Divorced when I was just about a teenager but he wasn't around for years. Back to our marriage. We were married when she was 20. I thought it was great. I loved her a lot. As our relationship evolved I noticed I was the decision maker. I was ok at first cause I wanted to take care of her. I enjoyed trying to make her life easier. As the years went on I noticed it started to wear on me. I was responsible for more and more and I was getting tired. I started to withdrawl from our marriage cause I felt like I was getting no help. 7 years in we decided to have a kid. In hopes it would bring us closer and make our life complete. We also built a home the same year as our daughter was born. I then lost the job that allowed us to build it. I became the stay at home dad which burned her up as she was supposed to be doing that job. After 3 years of staying home she started to go through a change. She wanted to descover who she was. She blamed me for making her who she is now. I didnt try to but her low self-esteme allowed it. My fault was not seeing it earlier to help. I was probably an enabler not thinking about it. Any way we split but for 6 months and then tried to work on our relationship again. We were great at first. It was all good. I felt like she was happier. A few years later we had another kid. This seemed to make her depression even worse. She felt more trapped. Had no friends to turn to and no time to do anything. Now here we are going through this again with 2 kids. She thinks I am the one to blame for who she is. She said I made her this way. We continue to try and make it better but she is overwhelmed and said she is numb. She doesn't think seeing somebody would help her. So I suggest marriage counceling. Maybe together can get her the first step she needs. It will help me understand what she is going and how to help. BTW she is on anti-depression pills but trying to get off them. Mainly because we can't afford them but she hates its making her gain weight. She also drinks a lot. Which started 2-3 months ago. About a month ago we talked about what we felt and we made lists. Her list painted a very bad depression. She called herself worthless and ugly and fat among other things. I have tried to reassure her I love her no matter what she looks like cause I love who she is inside. Of course she took this the wrong way saying that if shes fat its ok.. Now all I am is the blame target. I have tried the approach that I will not complain or say anything negative that might trigger her rage. I have to walk on egg shells not to say anything that might upset her. It has worked at times cause she has said she doesnt know if she can ever be happy. At least looking at herself instead of me. I love my wife very much and I want us to be us again but it is frustrating seeing her beat me up (verbally)like this. I am hurt and dont know what to do.. Thanks for listening..

Mike


----------



## Corpuswife

Mike, I am sorry you are hurting. You came to the right place to share and vent and get some input.

Depression is a selfish disease. Alcoholism is a selfish disease (I know it's been only 2 months). With depression is hard to feel anything. The alcohol is obviously not helping the depression.

I would encourage anyone with depression that is on medication that may not be working is to see there doctor. There are many types of meds to choose from. Also, the mg might need to be changed. It takes from anywhere from 2-4 weeks to get into your system. So she is getting off of the antidepressants...what is her plan to help combat the depression? Will she exercise? Lay off of alcohol and caffeine? Will she attending counseling? Will she be eating healthy? Getting off anti-depressants won't cure her depression...maybe not even the weight gain?? I know money is a factor but if she had diabetes you'd find a way to get the meds.

Quit enabling your wife!!! She must live with the consequences of her behavior. She isn't owning up to anything you say. Set your boundaries and expectations of what you need to make this marriage work. Do it in as noncomfrontational way that you can. State..."I feel......(that I need help around the house as I am stressed out). or "I feel... (that I am always to blame for everything that goes wrong and it hurts). Basically, do this to not make her defensive and do it during a calm time.


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpuswife said:


> Mike, I am sorry you are hurting. You came to the right place to share and vent and get some input.
> 
> Depression is a selfish disease. Alcoholism is a selfish disease (I know it's been only 2 months). With depression is hard to feel anything. The alcohol is obviously not helping the depression..


She has been drinking heavy for about 3-4 months now. I know I said 2-3 months but I remembered it began a little earlier. Heavy I mean 2-5 beers a night. She told me its helping to coup with life. At first I liked it cause it helped her relax and I saw the girl I married happier. I then realized the effects of it over time. Anger was more and more. I was a big time target for her life.




> I would encourage anyone with depression that is on medication that may not be working is to see there doctor. There are many types of meds to choose from. Also, the mg might need to be changed. It takes from anywhere from 2-4 to get into your system. So she is getting off of the antidepressants...what is her plan to help combat the depression? Will she exercise? Lay off of alcohol and caffeine? Will she attending counseling? Will she be eating healthy? Getting off anti-depressants won't cure her depression...maybe not even the weight gain?? I know money is a factor but if she had diabetes you'd find a way to get the meds..


SHe has no plan to combat the depression. She has tried ant-depresants a few times and the all do the same thing. Make her less active. She drinks a lot of coffee in the morning. Doesn't eat right cause shes trying to keep the weight off and tells me she is to tired to exercise. I have offered to help her by walking together. I get turned down. For the counceling she thinks they are all quacks. I am going to go to marriage counceling with or without her. I am more prepared the second time around to not escalate it. I hope she comes with me and a therapist makes a diagnoses. Her GP is making these decissions and its not good ones I don't think. She told me earlier in the year that at different times she needs to take more cause she can feel it harder douring that time of the month. She has been on them for a year now..

.


> Quit enabling your wife!!! She must live with the consequences of her behavior. She isn't owning up to anything you say. Set your boundaries and expectations of what you need to make this marriage work. Do it in as noncomfrontational way that you can. State..."I feel......(that I need help around the house as I am stressed out). or "I feel... (that I am always to blame for everything that goes wrong and it hurts). Basically, do this to not make her defensive and do it during a calm time.


I am not sure what boundries you are talking about. I have to walk around on eggshells cause if something comes out wrong I am hung. The rage is vented. Right now she is numb and doesn't care. So all I am doing is being nice and telling her I love her. I took daughter out to dinner tonight. She didn't want to come. I brought her home some ice cream. Just to let her know I am thinking f her. BTW I have always done that. Like I said before I am more careful about the words and actions I use after dealing with this before. Our issues seem to stem from this depression. It goes back to the same pattern after the "honeymoon" portion wears off. She stops helping me out around the house and I get overwhelmed. I pull back cause I am exhausted and it goes down hill again. I am the pool boy/maid/butler/money guy/house take carer/food shopper/bill payer. You name it I end up having to do it cause it won't get done if I don't.. 

Thanks for your support..


----------



## preso

you know you can buy CD's to listen to at home how to improve self esteem... maybe you should shop online for something she can listen to? That would be a way to help without going to expensive long term therapy or her trying to find a way to work on it and making many mistakes.

?
Just be careful how you bring it up, you may say you want to buy it for yourself, to check it out...


----------



## Loving Husband

Well today was a little better in the morning. She was getting ready for work and came upstairs. I was on bed just waking up and asked her to come over. She sat down next to me and I mentioned just a week ago she was leaning over and kissing me on the cheek to get up. She said that she was trying for herself to see if she could try to make it work. After a little more talking she said said she feels like a prisoner in her own home. She can't do anything for herself. We do work opposite hours and days. We have 2 kids and a little support system but that’s not my fault. She said she needs to socialize with other people. I am ok with that if she can get a plan together. I said as long as it’s not with single men.  As she was about to leave we talked a little more about her feelings and she has a habit of holding stuff in until she explodes. If something bothers her I might not hear it or she might not let me know it’s important. I think this is where the counselor will help. I think this will teach us both to communicate. I also think she will help us work on giving my wife the time and ability to socialize. Now you have to understand my wife is on facebook from the time she’s home until bed. That could be 2am. I think she takes it extreme... I do think she wants to go to see somebody but is waiting on me to make the first move. She seems reluctant to show she is going to try until I make the first step... I hope we are headed in the right direction.


----------



## Loving Husband

I have called somebody and waiting for all the forms to be completed and hope to get a call this afternoon. I am going to see somebody regardless if she comes. I still feel she wants to go but wants me to do all the work. (What a surprise) That is how our marriage has been. Any way I hope I can learn a little bit about how to communicate with her or anybody. I have self help I can learn for sure.. We all do..


----------



## Corpuswife

Loving husband,

good for making the point of taking care of your marriage and yourself by getting some help!!

Boundaries: Basically set expectations of what you want and stick by it. It's your choice to what the boundaries will be. You say you do everything around/out of the house. Are you doing the shopping for her...buying beer/cigs/special food? Quit it. Are you washing her clothes? Quit it. Are you bringing her special things (ice cream) when she refuses to do things as a family. Quit it. These are some form of a boundary. Other boundaries may be if you don't quit drinking or get help....I want out! It is up to you and what you want. Perhaps a counselor could help you sort this out.


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpuswife said:


> Loving husband,
> 
> good for making the point of taking care of your marriage and yourself by getting some help!!
> 
> Boundaries: Basically set expectations of what you want and stick by it. It's your choice to what the boundaries will be. You say you do everything around/out of the house. Are you doing the shopping for her...buying beer/cigs/special food? Quit it. Are you washing her clothes? Quit it. Are you bringing her special things (ice cream) when she refuses to do things as a family. Quit it. These are some form of a boundary. Other boundaries may be if you don't quit drinking or get help....I want out! It is up to you and what you want. Perhaps a counselor could help you sort this out.



I got it now. I do need to do that. I have in the past bought Cigs/Beer for her. I am going to stop that. Funny thing is I come from the family in which my dad was the alcoholic. My mom was always afraid it would make us like that. None of us have so far.

Today was an interesting day. She called me from work asking if I picked up the milk. I said yes and she told me she was coming home. Sounded so nice. When she got home she went upstairs to relax and get into her moomoo. Thats what I call it.  Big loose dress type. She came down and we talked a bit on the couch. Low key nothing intense. I asked her how her day was and she did same for me. It was my day off I watched my kids like I do every mon and tue. So then I mentioned the MC. She got upset and said I'm not going to one. I have no need to I don't care. I said well I am going and would like you there. She then said why does it have to get to this point where I am ready to walk out before you make a move. I said two reasons. First of all you only let me knoe here and there with little comments that you are not happy. if you don't make it important I won't think its anything more then your upset. I said two its your responsibility to seek help if I am not geting it before it gets to this point. You are responsible for how people treat you and if you don't correct its your fault for letting it go this long. I got a long pause after that. She didn't have much to say other then say well I guess its all my fault then. (Normal habit of hers to do that.) It's like when I explain about being upset aobut something she is doing she always turns it back on me to hurt me in return. I am unable to say anything that I don't like without getting "well it's cause you did this to me". Drives me up the wall to this day. It's so hard to talk to her and express my feelings without it thrown back at me. I hope the MC can help this. We have lots of work ahead.. 

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## Loving Husband

This morning was interesting. My wife geting ready for work was getting dressed and trying on clothes. Nothing fit right to her. I woke up and leaned over and said you are beautiful to me. She went off and continued to change into many outfits. Said she should never have gotten on the anti-depressants and she should in a joking way get rid of the problem and looked at me.. I laughed. I told her she will always turn me on. I have shown her many times that being close to her gets me excited. Yet she continues to remember stuff 20 years ago that I might have said and never lets it go.. BTW It was just 1 comment.. Not a nice one when we were dating.. I can't get away from it.. So downstairs she is getting ready to leave and I tell her she makes it very difficult to make her feel good when she obviously hates herself. If she can't look at herself and be happy NOTHING I say will help reinforce the words. I am still blamed and hung no matter what happens. I will continue to work. Last night seemed to get a little better.. She seemed to drop some of the anger. We talked about her having space to see friends. I agreed and said we can find a way of compromise. She feels 15 years she has been trapped. Mainly I can tell you that was her part not trying. The past 5 years she is beginning to open up. I will do what it takes to have her life more fullfilled. Hopefully seeing the MC will help her see somebody on her own. That is a hope though.. At least seeing somebod together is the first step..


----------



## pgk453

Mike, put your foot down and nip this in the bud. You both need to be in counsuling. Work on yourself first! You may not want to spend the rest of you life with someone like her. I gave up 10 years trying to figure out a relationship like this. When I finalily got divorced and move on I could see the disfuction clearer.


----------



## Loving Husband

You could be 100% right. In fact my family has told me but I have 2 small children and they would be torn apart if we were not trying. I did talk to my 8 year old one day. I asked her what she thought of mommy and daddy. She said that she thought we loved each other. I asked why. She said we kiss each other a lot. Too me she has a positive feeling about our marriage. Now the 1.5 year old has no clue obviously. I don't want to continue this mess but I also want to raise my family together. If there is some way to get all to work I have to find it..

Thanks..
Mike


----------



## Corpuswife

Mike,

you are taking the first step. So, I take it she reluctantly agreed to counseling?


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpuswife,

I do not know yet. She is on the fence back and forth. She at times I feel would go but when push comes to shove she might fold and say no.. My family thinks she won't go I believe for fear of what the MC might uncover with her. As I said my wife would rather curl up into a ball then face anything. It is very scary and a reason why our patterns repeat. I just hope she can accept her part in the problems and stop hanging me as if "I" am the reason. She says she has a part to in this but I don't think that she's accepting the responsibility part. She thinks I lie to her all the time about wanting to help and make it better. She thinks I am just saying this stuff to get her back but in reality she doesn't follow through with what she wants. It falls on the way side and never happens. Another bad habit I noticed is she likes to start things but not finish them. Project get started all the time but very slow to finish. Not sure why.. It's nothing major but obviously an issue with everday life.


----------



## Corpuswife

My opinion, 

MC doesn't work when 1 person works and the other is 1/2 way in. I know this from my own experience and others.

If she doesn't go. You go for individual sessions. You will need the support to get through this crisis.


----------



## Loving Husband

Thanks Corpuswife.. I am going regardless. At least I can find out information from a professional. Maybe I am doing something wrong that triggers her to act the way she does.. Maybe I can't understand her. I do know I have to watch how a phrase things. I have a tendancy to be politically incorrect. Today I talked to her on the phone and she told me she is trying to get a hot tub for free. I am a little confused. She knows we are having problems but is trying to continue to build up the house. If for some reason we split up why bother with a hot tub?? Maybe this is a sign she isn't running?? I am so lost.. Her mother stays with us Tue-Sun to help with watching my oldest when I go to work and sticks around to help my wife on her weekend. My wife can't stand her coming cause she gets on her case too about get moving and doing something around the house. Her own mother feels like she is a maid when she comes over. Kind of scary...


----------



## Loving Husband

What I am shocked about is how can she risk the family because of being selfish?? I mean to risk the upbringing of your children cause you want more free time.. Seems a bit extreme. I am convinced she is either punishing me or waiting to see if the free time we talked aobut happens.. I am going at this blind cause I have to figure out how to do this with little help from her. Either way I am now complete backing off. It's going to be hard staying in same house without the ability to just leave but I can't let her just play these dumb games with my mind...


----------



## Loving Husband

Last night I stayed away and then went to bed. What is odd is she is thanking me for cooking dinner and making a point to say good morning to me. In our sleep she is cuddling up to me. Shes not awake. I am really lost. I asked her about the cuddling and said there is your want for me in your sleep. She tried to tip toe around the words but said anything she said will come out wrong. It's almost like she is afraid to upset me.. She is doing a little more around the house. Maybe she wants us to work on our issues apart before geting back together. I am lost!


----------



## preso

Loving Husband said:


> I have called somebody and waiting for all the forms to be completed and hope to get a call this afternoon. I am going to see somebody regardless if she comes. I still feel she wants to go but wants me to do all the work. (What a surprise) That is how our marriage has been. Any way I hope I can learn a little bit about how to communicate with her or anybody. I have self help I can learn for sure.. We all do..



That is a very good idea.


----------



## preso

Loving Husband said:


> Last night I stayed away and then went to bed. What is odd is she is thanking me for cooking dinner and making a point to say good morning to me. In our sleep she is cuddling up to me. Shes not awake. I am really lost. I asked her about the cuddling and said there is your want for me in your sleep. She tried to tip toe around the words but said anything she said will come out wrong. It's almost like she is afraid to upset me.. She is doing a little more around the house. Maybe she wants us to work on our issues apart before geting back together. I am lost!



Your going to have to be patient and see where this is going.


----------



## Loving Husband

preso said:


> Your going to have to be patient and see where this is going.


That is easier said then done. As you can tell I have a habit of talking about it alot. My mother-in-law tells me to stop also and I have a lot. Still It's like I am walking on eggshells.. This morning before I left she gave me a few kisses. I was in shock. I talked to her once today only to let her know the MC meeting is 8PM Tue. Still not sure if she is going. She bought some beer today and had 1 when I came home. I talked to her about it and pointed out how much she has been drinking. She is seeing the fact its a lot and said she would not have another one tonight.. Still 1 is too much.. I did lean over to give her a kiss and she moved a bit so I only got the side of her lips. Asked if she was mad and she said no she was hot. The air had not kicked on yet.. ANother night of just exsisting and no relationship talk.. Though in the pool I did talk about how we do things to each other that cause us to be bad. She said I guess we can't communicate. I said no the MC will help that then she got fussy and I dropped it.. Here's to a good night.


----------



## swedish

If you are heading toward MC soon, you may want to hold off on the relationship talk...sounds like she's making baby steps as far as affection towards you so why not just roll with that for now?


----------



## Loving Husband

I have been told if you give me an inch I take a mile. I am not sure how ever to proceed SLOWLY.. I never know if I should continue or not or just accept and not look for more. I think its how she has trained me when she gets this way. Remember this has happened before. I feel like a bundle of nerves not to say or do anything wrong..


----------



## Loving Husband

Got to VENT here. I came home and brought home a nice chicken for dinner. ALl I had to do was make side dish and veg. We all got changed and went in pool. Best part of my night. Came in and finished up dinner. Wife fed 1.5 year old and sat in front of FB. We all ate dinner. Mother-in-law cleaned up. I took kids outside to get some exercise and let wife watch soaps. Came in and had to do baths for both kids. Wife doesn't usually do them. Why? I have no clue. Then I hear wife getting upset about the kids doing something. BTW she was on at least beer#2. I will have to brush sons teeth in a bit so all she has to do is give him some milk and put him to bed. This is a normal night when I am home. Should I be the one running or her???


----------



## karajh

You seem like a nice guy... and in case you did not know.. you are being emotionally abused by your wife. I can tell you from personal experience that nothing you do will make her happy. Besides, no one makes anyone else happy, we have to be able to make ourselves happy! I am not saying for you to leave the marriage, I am saying you need to get some help for yourself to cope with the abuse you are putting up with at home. I wish my STBX would have put half the energy into trying to save our relationship that you have put into this one! It seems that all the men that are trying so hard are in the same boat as the women that are trying so hard.. Getting SCREWED!!!!

Good luck!!!!


----------



## Loving Husband

Thanks Karajh. My wife has told me that I am mentally abusive to her. I think cause I get on her case about doing nothing. Note: I don't degrade her or cal names. I just am looking for some help and want to take care of our home. Example. She gets laid off every winter. Coming up to it I ask if she has plans for big projects. Once it starts I keep on her cause if I don't nothing gets done. Last fall and winter I didn't push anything and guess what. 5 Months she did NOHING.. My family has already said she abuses me. That I am the one that should file for mental abuse. As for the happy I think you are right on. I tried something a month ago to see.. I made a point not to say ANYTHING negative and just do everything. Here we are a month later and still not happy. Yeah I just wish my wife would understand what I do and how good she has it. I asked my sister to get a bunch of her married friends and sit down with my wife and tell there stories. I think then she might realize how lucky she has it. Remember my wife has been with me since 16. She doesn't know any better. Thanks for the words..

Mike


----------



## Loving Husband

Really rough day for me inside. I just feel like crap. I am beating myself up inside thinking I should be doing something to help fix this. We as men try to fix everything. I just don't feel right not trying to win her back. It feels like if I don't try I will lose her.. Coming from a womens point of view is this space good?? Do I have to worry that she will completely fall out of love with me?? Her own lack of confidence would allow me to walk out of her life rather then stick her neck out for something she wanted..


----------



## Loving Husband

oppss.... Might have done a booboo. I made dinner for the family but didn't eat. Wife came in and said I would never ask you to do that. I would never expect it if you were not eating.. (sounded angry). I said its ok. I don't mind doing it for my family. I guess her comment got to me. I started feeling like nothing I do is good. I feel like no matter how hard I try and take care of my family I get flak.. So when she was over I went outside with her to smoke. I asked her why is it no matter what I do I get so much crap for it. No matter what nice/good thing I do come with so much anger. She said she wasn't anger and I took it the wrong way. Just she would never ask me if I wasn't eating dinner also. I then went on to a little bit of my own feelings of self worth. I said why is it no matter how hard I try to do good by you I am always wrong. I am always hurting. I said I try to give you the best of everything. I try to give you time. I try to make you happy and no matter what I do I still get grief that I am doing it wrong. I almost cried. She got frustrated and had nothing real to say but asked why keep taking 10 steps back. She's like you never learn.. Basically about not talking. It's tough.. For me really tough trying to speak logically to a women who it's thinking logical.


----------



## Corpuswife

Don't think that she is logical. You can't figure it out...depression and booze. It might not be logical. You have to protect yourself and the children. 

What is it the you like about her now?


----------



## Loving Husband

Funny thing is at times I see between all of the crap and I hold onto that. There are times she can be so gunine and I look for that to continue but it never does. She can be so loving and caring but the jeckyl/hyde routine continues The girl I married had more life then the one that is now with me but I am willing to work with her to hopefully get that back. I am so craving her to become a perso its killing me. I also can't turn my back on her. I watched the move fireproof and I recomend it if you haven't and the moral of the story is to never leave your partner behind. 

To answer your question there isn't much I currently like about her.

BTW: It looks like she is now hiding how much she drinks by brining it out to the recycle container instead of letting them pile up on table. All cause she knows I am watching her closer with her drinking.


----------



## Loving Husband

Last night more FB. She was having a few chat sessions and I came over. She immediately said he lives in Canada don't worry. So obviously she cares about our marriage and how I take things which I guess is good. Went to bed before her and this is the first night I didn't wake up in the middle of the night and snuggle up to her. Probably just exhausted. Nothing much said this morning except basics. Good morning. What time you working today and this weekend.. She said so she can plan for dinner if I am going to be home. Odd her cooking?? I guess since her mother here she has too as her mother isn't a cook either. No hugs/kisses.. I guess we back to square one and anytime I voice my frustrations it goes back to 1. Dropped kid off baby sitter and was talking to her a bit. My wife told her I am very affectionate. The babysitter told her she is lucky after this many years.. Now this was a day or 2 before she blew up at me for no reason. Why would any women after 18 years together complain or not want affection?? When we are together.. I complain if we have a "quickie". I am into making love and the whole process more then the end result and I can tell you its 90% all her too. I guess thats the giving side of me. I would do anything for her she wanted. That could mean in bed or life. I could not get same in return and it hurts cause I think thats the only thing stopping us from really connecting. At least in bed. We have other issues obviously. I really wish I wasn't around to help with this process she is going through..


----------



## GAsoccerman

Hey Mike, sorry to read all this...

Sometimes it is hard to figure things out.

Your youngest is 18 ,months old? She still amy suffer from PPD.

Depression mixed with alcholism is very dangerous.

Do you exercise? Maybe getting her in a walking routine with the kids? Some sort of routine to get her mind off things. Go on some hiking trips? canoing? etc

I like that you are trying and looking for ways to help.

Seek the professional help, but maybe a vacation if you can afford one, or something to insp[ire her to turn that corner to recovery. Maybe some date nights, make her feel special. 

What were some of the things she liked to do when you were dating? what are her interests? Get her out of her normal routine.

Try some new things maybe that can add a spark.


----------



## Loving Husband

GAsoccerman said:


> Hey Mike, sorry to read all this...
> 
> Sometimes it is hard to figure things out.
> 
> Your youngest is 18 ,months old? She still amy suffer from PPD.
> 
> Depression mixed with alcholism is very dangerous.
> 
> Do you exercise? Maybe getting her in a walking routine with the kids? Some sort of routine to get her mind off things. Go on some hiking trips? canoing? etc
> 
> I like that you are trying and looking for ways to help.
> 
> Seek the professional help, but maybe a vacation if you can afford one, or something to insp[ire her to turn that corner to recovery. Maybe some date nights, make her feel special.
> 
> What were some of the things she liked to do when you were dating? what are her interests? Get her out of her normal routine.
> 
> Try some new things maybe that can add a spark.


I don't really exercise.. I work on my feet and walk at least 6-8 miles a day at work and have very bad legs due to a car accident so I am pretty beat when I come home. Plus the kids take even more out of me. Since my wife is crawling up into a ball I have so much on my plate. It's wearing me down/ Why doesn't she understand that constant burden has worn me out. Why can't she see that all the good feelings get pushed back when you use somebody like that??? BTW I did last Sunday ask her if she wanted to go for a walk with me and the kids and she said she was too tired. This was after 10 hours sleeping.. We were supposed to go on vacation this summer but her wrk said no during the pool season. We were supposed to plan a vacation for ourselves for our 15 year annaversary in Middle of Sept but I guess thats gone from her head. With what she liked to do when we were dating was SOOO long ago I don't know. She was 16-19 and I think those things are different now based on growing up. This is part of the problem. She doesn't know who she is any more. She lost herself in this marriage and family. Remember I said she was a co-dependant. This is the wake up call and she is trying to do this in a marriage. Again being very selfish. I hope she goes with the MC with me. She needs the help from a professional to maybe get her thinking better. I obvioulsy am not helping..


----------



## Loving Husband

A little update.. Well big one. I came home last night and talked with mother-in-law.. Asked about how her talk went with her daughter and she said she didn't have it. I kept talking to ask if I was doing anything wrong snce she is here. 3-5 days a week every week to watch kids. She said no. As for the rest of the night well. I for some reason went upstairs and checked wifes cell phone. Looks like she was having an EA.. She was allowing a guy on FB to talk sexy to her. Well I blew up BIG TIME.. I lost it. I let all my anger built up out. I let everything I talk about here out. How I am being abused. How its not right you beat me up like this and so on. Well I almost kicked her out of the house. We talked till 4 am. Well I talked she sat there and cried. She really has nothing left inside. I asked she break off all ties with him. Which she said she would the next day. We woke up 2 hours later. I went to work but only worked hours as I was dead tired and not myself. Came home and well she was going to punish me for last night. The guard came up that I tore down last night and we back to square one. She is unsure about going to MC. She said she might sit there and do nothing. I think she is afraid... She won't open up and might only go once. She is so scared not sure what to do. Well she told me today she doesn't care about us. NOt about me either. Though I think its the depression. She would still rather run away or punish me until I am dead. So much was said. She is so hurt. Blaming me once again instead of looking at herself like last night.. Not sure this can ever get better.. BTW she Text him that she has to stop and break offf ties.. I think that shows a lot of respect for our marriage..


----------



## Loving Husband

Another bad day for wife. I went to work early and didn't talk to her at all until I got home at 5:30.. Mother-in-law called me at work to say she spoke to wife and she asked her to go to councelling together. Not sure what else was really said. When I got home. Wife was pissed. Drinking again.. Told me her mother called and told her to stay in this marriage cause of the economy. Was going off about it. I said I'm sorry.. I don't know what your mother said. We talked a little over the weekend about it but thats it. It was like she wanted to pick a fight. She asked what I thought was wrong. I mentioned my hours/days/money/time since we had our 2nd child was born has dropped. She was getting more and more mad. I don't know why. I keep asking her what I did wrong and she won't give me an answer. I finally told her i am tired of being broadsided. Nobody knows when she is mad.. Nobody knows when she is hurt. She puts on this happy face including to me and then hits me. I said I am tired of being hit. Your own family doesn't know. Then she said she doesn'y care what her family thinks. It's falling worse and worse and I can't help stop it.. It really seems like she wants to belive it can get better but doesn't think it will. I stress MC will help. Its a person not in this family/marriage who can give an honest opinion. She doesn't care as she tells me. She said I could do whatever.. She would like to leave but can't. I don't know what to do.. I don't want her to leave but not sure she will say anything at MC.... Its scary. My daughter is scared cause she yells all the time.. 

A little update at least to leave it a little better. After I gave son bath and got him ready for bed.. Said I have been with you more then half your life. Lets not make that a waste. Ithen said do it for the kids at least. She replied back "We will See" I think this is the first positive thing I heard from her. I left it like that. No other us talk. Just to leave it positive. BTW She didn't go out and get the milk for my son as were out. She was home all weekend. I said I'll get it but reminded her of what she would have done to me. That is yell at me and say you should have said something to me before I came home. I said I'm not going to yell at you like you do me just pointing out that is a situation you would have yelled at me..


----------



## Loving Husband

I think I hit a break through last night though.. After I got off here I took daughter upstairs She is so fragile right now.. I said how doy u feel abot mommy and daddy?? She said she loves us and wants us happy. I asked if she felt we were.. She said I don't know. I then said Mommy's and daddy's go up and down.. She said arew you guys going up now? I paused and said Mommy and Daddy are working on some things. She started cry hard. She asked if we were going to break up. I said I don't think so.. She was still crying hard. She then asked me to go downstairs I guess to cry by herself. I went down to the wife and said thats it. We need to fix this NOW.. Your daughter is very upset about us. We need to put down the anger and frustration and resolve the issues with a professional. There is no options. I do not want our family to go through this. I said I don't want to sweep the problems under the rug like last time and pt on a happy face. I want to get resolve and work on communicating together. I said it's not my fault about how you feel.. You didn't tell ANYBODY how bad you were feeling. I didn't know and then you blindsided me.. Our issues are 100% communication. See my wife for the past 1.5 years of a son hasn't done ANYTHING outside this home. She is trapped and feels like she has a baby sitter all the time. Her mother or me all the time.. This has made every issue 10 times worse. Combine that with money/work/home/me.. You got huge problems. I told her I think a MC will help with the communication. If she does the feelings we have for each other will be shown all the time cause neither of us will be holding resentment. I mentioned I think in comparassion to other marriages our issues are small. They are easier to resolve and move on. There is none of the majors. Abuse/Adultry/Gambling.. This morning she said I am going to warn you I will tell the MC I need space. I said tell her whatever you want. This about resolving issues we both have. Be as open as you can. I don't care if you hurt me. You need to finally resolve and move on. I said I can't keep paying for comments I made over the past 15 years. We need to move on from them.. So I think my daughter being very upset finally got her to think a little more rationally.. I am a bit scared though. I am hanging our marriage on this women I have never meet.. I have NEVER been to a councelor.. I am not worried about what she says to me. I am strong I can take it. I am more worried if she fails to get us to work together. My wife and I have a lot of passion for each other. That gets covered up because of life. My wife's way of resolving is to put on a happy face and hold it in. Then the vicious cycle continues..If we can stop that pattern It should improve. My kids don't need us to continue this. We need to act like adults and resolve. I will not accept a broken family in these situations.


----------



## Corpuswife

Marriage counseling....you do the work. It takes two. The marriage counselor will not save the marriage...she will guide you and give suggestions and get you to reevaluate things. You do 80% of the work! If your wife goes in there because she is forced, then you may not get much out of it as a couple. You will know, if she willing to work after about 4 sessions or so. During that time...ask yourself...is she showing or canceling or making excuses? Is she doing the homework or excercises? What is the attitude?

I am just giving you a "heads up" for this and what may/may not happen! Be prepared.

I would go to individual counseling, if I were you. I do and it's helps a great deal. You can't help your wife figure things out. She has to do it herself. In the meantime, get support for yourself.


----------



## Loving Husband

I plan on doing the work required. Worst case I make myself better in the future.. The fact that she said this moring she will tell the MC she needs some space to breathe is very good. It means she will be participating in it. If we can just resolve the issues of communication I think the rest will fall into place. As I said before we both came from broken families. My mom married a drunk and her dad died. I don't think either one of us learned how to communicate with the opposite sex. Its very hard when your driving without directions. That's why I think the MC will help us out a lot. We have got to stop damaging the relationship by avoiding the issues and not resolvig them and moving on. SOunds simple but obviously difficult..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well I think we hit another break through.. This morning I was a little upset and I can see she was.. She told me today that she thinks she will explode at the MC tonight. She is going to let out how she feels. I Think this is great. She needs to voice her frustrations/hurt feelings. She is going to bring up how I made her feel over the years. I must be dense when it comes to the things that happen.. It's not that I try to hurt her it's that I don't take things to heart as much. Now with her at its witts end and the way she feels it's hard to see her stop and try and make it work.. She used the anaolgy if she slept with 10 guys and told me then expcet me to move on would I?? I guess I understand her point but her communication to me has been the reason this keeps happening. Instead of resolving issues at the time both of us don't. She told me today she is going to go to hopefully have the MC translate her issues from her to me so I can understand why she is feeling this way. She said she wants me to coupe with it. Now I am not sure if that ment to make it better in the future or for me to understand and move on. If it did her future plans don't make sense. We talk about holidays and plan daycare and of course still sleeping in same bed. She said she can't accept my promise letter now.. I guess cause she is so mad. She did ask me to bring it to the MC session. Not sure why.. Now if she lets it all go I hope the MC gives her the strength to work on the issues. She thinks we are just horrible at this.. Marriage that is. Right now I am not sure how I feel... I am a bit scared she won't give this the chance again to make it better.. I hope and pray she does.. I hope she doesn't go there and let it out and then not go again cause I don't feel she would have learned anything and once again she will repeat pattern cause she expect guys to pick up on the little things and I can tell you most miss it..  If anybody can tell me if this is good or not I would appreciate it.. It looks dark right now... I hope she can move past this anger and frustration to feel my love for her.. Right now she can't as there is too much in front..


----------



## mistake maker

loving, i give you al the credit in the world, you are doing the part that my wife did for many years. the only difference is she would not tell me what i was doing to push her away. then she took the kids and left and I was lost. know we are trying to communicate, I was the one that went to counsoling first and she said she would go also. the first sesion went ok, we have not been back yet. only time will tell. 
I total understand the feeling of thinking that you will pull farther apart when they say they need space. I am having alot of trouble with that one. but I also know that if I want my family back I have to do it.


----------



## Loving Husband

I think my wife is toxic for me in her current state. Thats the problem. I can work on myself and learn as much as I can but if she doesn't open up also and work on herself this is bound to fail.. Nobody can hold a relationship together by themselves. My wife doesn't know how to reach out for help. She doesn't read. She doesn't do any investigating. She doesn't see anybody. She sits and waits for changes to happen. It's how our marriage has gone. No input. No drive for personal achievements.. Nothing to say I am here and want to enjoy life. Her way of socializing is sitting on FB and playing stupid games talking to former HS people. It's not reality. It's only an escape. like the drinking is.. I don't know what I will do if she can't open up at the MC starting tonight. She only said she would go tonight. I hope this is a long line of many appointments.. I pray for my wife to give her 100% effort on this marriage..

Well Tonight is the first MC meeting and according to my wife she is bringing a list of 4 pages to say. This in hope for me to cope on why she is leaving. Looks like this is going to be the end of our marriage.. I guess I will be going to MC meetings by myself.. I am very sad right now..


----------



## Corpuswife

Keep your chin up. Tonight will be a start.

The first session will be a get-to-know-you session. She may not get to read all of the (4) pages!! Who knows! It sounds like she avoids conflict with you. Maybe she will develop a rapport with the counselor and seek it individually.


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpuswife said:


> Keep your chin up. Tonight will be a start.
> 
> The first session will be a get-to-know-you session. She may not get to read all of the (4) pages!! Who knows! It sounds like she avoids conflict with you. Maybe she will develop a rapport with the counselor and seek it individually.



I told her tonight I am a blind man and I am finally seeking a guide dog to help. We have been going at this without help.. How can you turn your back before you get help?? It's not fair to me or the kids. I belive its things that have happened over the years that have either been said and I didn't take to heart and/or things that I thought were minor that she held onto. Again its a very toxic situation for any man to be in.. I hope its not the end. I hope its a beginning..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well it wasn't what I was expecting.. We drove down together and one of the issues we had came out. about how I treat her and why. I Simple put it that I get no help so I don't look at her very good. It got heated and she was ready to not go in when we finally got there. It was mainly paper work we did. Nothing on us. She did see I was anxious and she was too. We tried to talk a little about us but it didn't happen. She got my wife to promise to come back for the 5 sesions. At least thats a good thing. I have to be on my best behaviour though.. I can't talk to her about us.. Though on the way home my wofe was still shaken from our blow up on the way down and of course we talked about feelings. I said this is the major part of our relationship. I can never express how I feel without you hanging me. As if I was beating you. Now I will never hear the end of it cause you will remember and throw it back at me. This is a bad pattern which nobody can ever live with. You can't have a perfect man who will never say anything bad. Sometimes a fight is just that. To express what is upseting the person.. Then change needs to happen and we move on. Yet for my wife that won't happen.. I don't know if this cvan be saved.. I will avoid her all this week until our next MC session. She seemed to adjust well to both of us. Got my wife to calm down and not run.. Still she wants out.. Yet I bet she sleeps in my bed tonight...


----------



## snix11

if she does, make her feel cherished. make sure she knows you want her there.. Hugs to you both!


----------



## Loving Husband

snix11 said:


> if she does, make her feel cherished. make sure she knows you want her there.. Hugs to you both!


I can't when she is awake. She will pull away.. I unfortunately can only get close in her sleep. It's why I barely sleep now. I wake up in the middle of the night to spoon her. It is very tough.. I am glad she still sleeps in bed with me but it hurts same time.


----------



## Loving Husband

Every morning it seems like we are going through problems and time is needed to work through them. Every evening when she comes home it seems like she is more mad and not from me.. THE MC made me promise to leave her alone all week until next session.. I asked my wife to promise no sex of any kind wih any other person. Text/Email/Chat.. She agreed.


----------



## Loving Husband

After our blow up in the car Yesterday where I said I can't ever say anything bad without getting a rash of crap and how she was a bump on the log for a wife. She is a bit chipper today. Not drinking for 3 days now and making dinner before I got home. In general very nice to me.. Can somebody tell me where my wife is??? Hmmmm this is odd.. I will be leaving her alone though as I was told. Only the little nice things we say to each other.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well no sleep last night. I keep waking up and getting close to wife. Last night she in her sleep returned the feelings. She spooned me and also sissored me. It was nice to see her get close to me. Even if it was in her subcoucious.. I believe that is truely how somebody feels as they can't control their actions sleeping but she knows I am next to her.

As she was getting ready today I told her about her getting close to me and she just looked at me.. I said you know how I feel about it. That it's your true feelings without anything in front. Downstairs getting ready I mentioned that our 15 year is a month away and I really hope its not like our 10th which is what happened last time where we were not together. I then said I wonder where our marriage today wouldbe without our son born. She said don't blame this on him. I said I amnot but it added to it. She said you can't just keep beating somebody down and expect them to come back. Now my wife means by the help I was looking for and the way I communicated to her she took it as I was beating down on her when I think it was life overcoming us. I also mentioned that the counsellor will help us communicate that better so I don't make you feel that way. She asked if thats what I expected and I said I didnt. Yet if she can teach me to better communicate you so I don't make you feel this way I will do whatever it takes. I mentioned my jobs hours/days will be changing. They were accomidating me to have off Mon-Tue to watch son. Now I will rotate. Told her that and she brought up her friend who watched our son in a daycare service might be doing it again in Dec. Again showing future times with me in this house.. I think that is so positive. BTW last night before I went to bed I said good night and I miss you. She told me I don't have to hide upstairs since this is my house too but I think I need to in order to keep relationship talk to a min.. I hope I am doing right and I hope she sees that I am willing to do whatever it takes to make this better then ever..


----------



## Loving Husband

Last night was pretty quiet again. I did come down just before bed and ask her about FB and why shes on so much and why she seems to be secretive. She said this is her only social out since she says shes trapped in house. I understand. 2 kids and can't go any where. I don't have a problem with it. Also she said she doesn't want me coming down and reading a chat log and geting part of its conversation just to have to explain it to me.. I know what she means but at times its a little funny.. My whole issue is FB is consuming her. Avoiding her children and just being on FB. Sure she knows how to get son ready for bed.. Change diaper.. Give bottle.. Daughter she just tells her to brush teeth and go to bed.. No brushing sons teeth or giving kids baths. Nothing that would require her getting away from computer. I go to bed after. 1:am. I wake up cause she isn't next to me. I come down and she is still sitting there. Now she has had 2-3 beers to try and get tired. We did have a little relationship talk. She said she was going to the 5 sessions but she let out a little of her anger inside that has bothered her over the years. I think this is a little bit of what Tue is going to be like. She said its bothered her that I am a flirt. Now I don't even know I do it but evidently I must be naturally that way. She wants that from me. She said she feels like after we were married I put her in this hole and left her there. I guess she means I stopped flirting with her. I kept saying I am sorry and I know if I made you feel that way it wasn't right. She brought up something from like 12 years ago. When we were first married and our first computer in 96-97 area. She said I was Sex texting. Though I can honestly say I don't remember. She said it doesn't bother her but here is another issue of her feeling a certain way and I had no clue.. Just like how I made her feel unwanted. I didn't know.. I mentioned to her about the MC and our relationship. I said the MC is going to hit me hard I feel. She started to laugh. I told her I want to be hit with the truth. I also will go until she said I no longer have too.. That I will make the changes I need to give you what your looking for.. I also stressed that this isn't a situation where I cheated on you and hurt you to the core. We both caused this problem over the years and we both need to and work on bettering ourselves. One person shouldn't be able to end this. I said if we go to MC and we still can't see eye to eye then I will be more then happy to move on. At least we said we tried.. This is our FIRST real help in our marriage. Have to give it a shot. She continued to say she will go to the 5 sessions at least. Yet she did say she wasn't going to invest 6 months in it. Though I have a feeling if we start to move forward by session 5 she will continue...

Last night almost ZERO sleep. As I said she didn't go to bed until late.. Like 1:30.. She came up and I was able to put my hand on her thigh when she was awake.. A PLUS!!!! Any way I had a hard time falling asleep. She didn't though and slept all through night. I was up constantly from 1-4. She once again spooned me and sissored me. It felt nice having her hold me in her sleep and held her.. I really do miss that. I mentioned to her again this morning about it and she said I can't control it. I just told her its really nice to see and feel her. She knows ow I feel about that. The subconcious I feel is a more true expression of onces feelings then the councious because when your awake you can hide those feelings. When your asleep you can't.. Plus she knew I am in bed with her so it can only be me. Either way in her sleep she is wanting to get closer. How do I get around the trust issues?? She sees how much I care and how hard I am trying but one thing she keeps telling me is she can't trust me what I say will is true or wil be better.. I mentioned over time through the MC she will see it.. I guess that one is going to require a lot of time. I hope this isn't a big drinking weekend and long hours on FB. Though I think it will be.. She won't do anything with kids and I have to work this weekend..


----------



## Loving Husband

Not a good weekend.. Lots of little blow ups.. She is still sitting on FB 20 hours a day.. Talking to old HS people.. Drinking wine cause there is no beer. She did NOTHING with the kids or even picked up the house.. Dirty dishes and stuff every where.. While I was working and she wants out?? I think I married the laziest wife in the world. If it wasn't for my kids I would be gone long ago.. I told her she is free to leave.. I dont think I have much fight left in me.. I point out the obvious and all she does is get mad and cry. Her breathe smells of wine and all she does is vent anger towards me.. Now she has some need to reach out to an old HS boyfriend who only abused her before she met me. He lives halfway accross the country though.. Oh well I don't think MC can fix this.. She has too many issues to even start to work on us and she refuses to she needs help.. I told her tonight she better see somebody and stop blaming me cause all weekend she did nothing and I wasn't around. If I was the problem wouldn't she be happier without me here?? GRRRRRRRRRR bad night..


----------



## Loving Husband

A little update.. After that post it got really ugly. I called her unfit mother and basiclly usless. Which is true. She doesn't do anything with her kids and FB consumes her. Not even basics like Baths or brushing teeth.. Any way aguement got heated to the point she called cops.. Nothing physical s I would NEVER be like that and she knows it. They heard both sides and that ended our sleeping together. The police report didnt look good on her. Said she was highly intoxicated. out of control. All cause I told her she was unfit and I would go for custody of the kids if she went to divorce. Now since the blow up. She hasn't had a drink and finally gave our kids a bath. She also brushed son's teeth. Still on FB up all day and night though. Stil can't see how that is improving her social life. We have yet to have a real MC meeting. As last week she was sick. I finally have stopped talking to her about us.. Last Thur was the last time I said anything. Still she sits in the nice house living the good life not on her own and seeing reality. Her sister sees this picture so clear. She knows what her sister is doing wrong. Yet my wife can't see it. I think she will have a sit down as my wife has no clue what to expect if she goes on her own. The purpose is for m wife to see that the issues we have are something we can resolve through MC and not to run. My wife has a bunch of hurt feelings from the way I treated her.. Yet the things I said were because I am not getting the help and love from her. I nicknamed her Patti take cause that is what she does. I hope she sees what she is doing is wrong before it goes too far. So far she hasn't contacted a laywer but has the info ready. I just wish she would sop listening to people on FB as they have an influence on her..


----------



## preso

Gee Husband, sounds really bad.


----------



## H8M32DAY

One thing I can say for sure is that I feel for ya. You and your wife are in a terrible situation. From what I have read I think she has major, maybe even chronic depression. There is no way to talk her out of it, she can't talk or think herself out of it either. I'm sorry if I sound negative, but I want to offer some insight and advice. I have had depression, anxiety, and borderline personality for around 20 years. And yes, depression is a very selfish illness. While I don't know exactly what she is going through and what is insider her head I can tell you some of my experiences with this and hope it helps. I've been that bump on a log before- even then I felt guilty about it because I knew it had to be hard on my husband. Believe me, it is hard to pull back up from such misery. I've laid inside on the couch on beautiful sunny days because I felt too sad to enjoy it. I'd say to myself- It's too beautiful of a day to feel so sad. I'd still lay there wanting to cry but not having any tears left. At some point though, the meds would start to work right and I'd get off the couch and do something. 

What is sooo important is that you and your wife both read as much as you can about depressive illness. Learning about it and understanding it is one of the best things you can do. By learning so much about it I was able to accept that this is the way I am, this is the way I'll always be. Stop fighting it and learn how to deal with all the emotions, or lack of. 

Also getting and taking the right medications would be a life saver. Not all meds will make her sleepy and fat. I finally told my doctor flat out- If it makes me fat or a zombie, I refuse to take it! It took a long time, but I'm finally on the right combination of meds to "take the edge off" enough that I can be ok most of the time and think rationally. I admit though, sometimes I'm a total disaster. I'll start thinking crazy thoughts and not realize how irrational I'm being. Most likely it will take a few trys to get the right medication or combination of medicines. Usually then when the brain chemicals are working better it's easier to pick up and start living life again. Oh, she really needs to quit drinking, nothing good can come of it. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that with depression, things will never be perfect, but there is hope. I wish your wife would agree to see a psychiatrist to get on the right meds and go to individual counciling. I think it would make a world of difference. It's likely that she dosen't understand what's going on in her own head, which is normal for depression. I think she feels a lot of guilt, anger, confusion, and sadness. Sadly she is taking it out on the one person who wants to help her the most. Don't let her do the blame thing. She shouldn't be carrying something around that happened 12 years ago. It's water under the bridge. 

I guess I've made this long enough... I'm glad to see you have made such an effort to help her. It's more than a lot of people would do. I hope things change for the better.


----------



## GAsoccerman

LH, don't worry plenty of lazy wives out there and plenty of lazy Husbands.

I am working nights right now, I went home and went to bed, I woke up around 1:30PM went for a run. came back and then I went food shopping. Sat down for dinner and ate, then got ready for Big Brother on TV.

But in the mean time my wife has been on her new laptop the whole time playing various games and facebook as well (games on there).

I looked at our living room, it was a complete mess. I told my kids when they get hoe from school today it needs to be cleaned up.

Did you ever think about tuning out your wife? let her go on facebook for 20 hours, go out with your kids, go to the zoo etc without her. Soon ti will kick in to her...hey where is everyone? why are they gone? etc. 

I've done this to my wife when she gets wrapped up in her online games, I don't clean up after her, I just go about my business and play with my kids or do what I want. 

there was a glass of milk on our table for three days, she finally picked it up and put it in the sink, all nice and disgusting. After she poured it out or it clumped out in the sink I said, "what's this?" she was like "old milk" I replied, Whose was it? (we both knew the answer) she replied, "I don't know" I laughed and said, "good try" walked away and went about my business.

I bet your wife's mother always cleaned up after her, or her older sister did. 

Sometimes you just need to go on with your life and ignore her, take care of the kids, stop letting it bother you, my wife starts to miss me, the other day I ate and went up to our bedroom to watch TV, she said, Don't you want to spend time with the family?" I replied, "nah, I need "me" time, you know what you always say when the rest of us are doing nothing, why don't you go play on the computer or go read a book, since that is all you do anyway." as she storms out of the room, childish on both parts sure, but the point was made, she has gotten better but she still has her moments, and I am no saint either, I can be cranky, but we learned to adjust or accept each other and our faults.

the question when is it to much?


----------



## Loving Husband

Thanks guys... GAsoccerman Your wife sounds same as mine... I have since Thur stopped saying much of anything. The ony discussions we had since then was last night and this morning about FB and the "friends" on there. I said I don't care if she has friends on there. In fact I encourage her as long as its on the up and up. She keeps reassuring me nothing is going on and she has no interest. Once again showing signs of caring about our marriage.. I said this is a trust thing. You need to build up trust after you broke it down before.. As long as everything you say adds up and nothing is looking funny I don't care. She keeps telling me she has no interest in anybody.. I refuse to talk about "us" and probably when she comes home tonight I won't say much.. As for doing stuff with kids. Both my mom and me have been. Last Monday after the blow up I took my daughter to an amusement park.. At the time I said I hope in the future we can do this as a family.. She said we will see. Even back then there was a little hope. I will continue to do what I can with the kids.. I have also left things for her.. She does have her mom here though and she is like a maid... We will see how this goes. I ave to call to see about the MC session this week.. What time it is...I am hoping that through this MC will spark her wanting to go on her own.. This might get expensive hough. As her health care is worse. Together I get 5 free then 25 a visit after.. My mom yesterday mentioned to wife this will take more then 5 sessions to straighten it out. She said nothing.. Again my wife is VERY weak.. She is also very scared to speak up or pick herself up.. It took my complete blow up to get her to stop destroying herself and this family.. So far 1 week no drinking...

H8M32DAY

You give my hope that if I stick with my guns this hopefully can be corrected.. I will take 6 months or even a yearif it gives us 15 more years of a better marriage.. I wish she would focus her attention on learning whats going on with her instead of printing out domestic abuse reports trying to blame me instead of looking at herself but I cant control that. I hope the MC will help her learn whats going on with her.. When she talks to her family she makes mountains out of mole hills.. Quick to lie and make up rather then face it.. I haven't talked about us isnce last Thur and will not give her any fuel to vent to her family. I am going about my business and thinking about what I can do with the kids...


----------



## Loving Husband

I decided to continue to do thigs with my kids and basically ignore my wife as much as I can. Today I took my daughter to a potery place where she colored a dinosaur. They will fire it and get it back next week. I also took the time to mop the floors in the house.. Fix the pool which went green due to my wife not doing the part she said she would. The kids and I went in that afternoon. I then went to cut the lawn when the wife got home only to have the spark plug wire pull apart and now won't run. Another thing I need to fix. Her Windows copy I bought on eBay came but it didn't fix the problem with a couterfeit software. Need to call Microsoft.. 7PM came around and of course now I have ot worry about dinner.. I end up getting BK to make it simple for me.. Our daughter told my wife about the potery place and she was mad. She wanted to take her this summer but its the last week before school. She would never do it. My wife has always done empty promises. Any way our daughter talks abot it and the wife is getting more upset. At this time I end up walking away and go to my room for most of the night. Mean while FB up from the time she came home until she goes to bed.. Top it off she is the one trying to dump me?? What's wrong with this picture?? BTW I ordered the book the love dare from the move Fireproof. My mom thinks my wife needs it more but you can always learn...


----------



## Loving Husband

Today I woke up with her getting ready for work. I had this curosity on my mind if my wife was bing truthful.. I know snooping isn't right but I took a look at our family plan info of our cell company. I noticed that she was sending text messages to the person she was sex texting 3 weeks ago. So I confronted her.. Yes she got mad about me looking and how I have access. She has every right to feel that way. I am babysitting her. Still with that being said she told me he contacted her through facebook and she said she handled it and he won't be contacting her again. I said to her that this is why I don't have the full trust in you. This is why I question things and I don't want to.. Any way she kept reassuring me nothing is going on and she has no interest in a man.. She then turned the conversation into "us".. I said I didn't start this so tonight in the meeting don't make it seem like I did. She said she was getting mad at me hiding in the bedroom every night.. That she wanted me out with her. She thinks I was on vacation...I was just trying to let her to cool off. As the talks progressed it was much calmer.. She was saying things that showed her caring for this marriage. I mentioned I will do whatever the MC asks me to do to give you the things she needs to feel alive. Her biggest issue is having free time to have some sort of life.. I agree she needs an outlet. I have no problem.. Our issues are purely communication. He have a great attraction for each other that is surprising for an 18 year relationship. A bond I don't think either of us will find again.. So this is why its worth saving. Still as I talk with her more and more it sounds like she has doubts but I think she really wants to make it better. We talked about learning to forgive and heal. She said she is resenting me for telling my family about us. How she feels she needs to explain our dirty laundry to them. I told her i know its wrong but I needed an outlet. I needed to understand and what I needed to do.. Again I stressed we will both need to forgive and move on through MC.. She did say one nice thing.. She said I am hoping for the best but planning for the worst. I think that shows she wants this to work.. Yet she plans on the worst if it doesn't. I think the people in her family and my family telling her she needs to do the MC has sunken in.. Now I hope I can learn from my mistakes and better us. I have only wanted her happy but I told her that you can't broadside me and expect me to understand. Hopefully the MC will teach her to communicate those issues before the build and fester.. Tonight sn't going to be pretty. This is where she lays out our dirty laundry to the MC. I wil hope to be quiet and let her do it without any defense. She needs to be heard and that is the only way healing can happen..


----------



## Loving Husband

We went to MC for our first REAL session. I can tell you I think this is going to help our marriage a lot. I get the feeling she will guide us in what we need to do in order to work better together. She worked on me saying I need to be less critical. Which I know is 100% true. That no matter what my wife does it isn't good enough. I need to appreciate anything she does instead of focusing on what she doesn't do.. So my task this week to not say anything neagative. My wife's task is to limit FB and to make effort to do more around house.. She seems very open to this. The 4 page list she had on me was never used. I think she is going to work together on it. On the way home I mentioned I will do this until I am treating her better. When she is happier. Hopefully I can learn. I owe it to her and the kids. To give it my 100% effort. Here's to the good start..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well late last night was interesting. She wanted music on her phone and I showed her how. She was very close to me which is a first. Almost back to the way it was before all of this. I am guessing that her being heard really helped.. As she said in the car an hour isnt enough. I agree.. Still if we both can take a little from every session it will keep us focused. I think "The Love Dare" book I am going to get any day will reinforce what she is telling me in the MC. Since I already know the first few chapters from the movie I have started already. Ironically my challenge this week s the same as the first day love dare which is not say anything negative..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the ups and downs continue... Day 3 of love dare was to buy her something. I bought flowers last night before coming home and put them on kitchen table after she went to sleep.. Mother-in-law said she was on FB all night. Still ignoring our kids she loves so much. Still can't understand that. Any way she was PMSing as she puts it and took it out on her mother last night. I didn't see much of it at I came home late. Went to bed and in the morning she was even worse. Te flowers were only moved from the table to the island. She was ranting and raving abot everything. Hot.. Sticky.. pressure.. stress.. Had to get daughter to her other grandma to go biking. Still nothing about the flowers. yet I took the brunt of her anger. As it got closer for her to leave she stopped and said its not you I am venting.. There is nothing your doing wrong. Still the effects of being beat up is there. It hurts.. She then thanked me for the flowers I gave her. She said she might go out with the girls she works with after work.. This is part of her free time... I hope to get book today. I need to write down my 3 days so far. Tomorrow I need to ask her if she needs anything.. I wonder how long it will take before she realizes I am doing the book? We both watched the movie..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well last night she didn't go out with the girls. Plans fell through.. She said she might take kids to sister once again "Only place she goes with kids" To the boardwalk tonight but it might rain. If not she still might go out with the girls from work or go to a neighbors house. I said fine what ever you want to do.. Just let me know. She said she will call or text me.. She said she got her period so now she should be calmer.. Still think thats an excuse to rant and rave.... I mentioned I might go to my old teams softball cook out on Sat for a few hours. She tried to push me saying you need a break from all of this.. Go have a good time.. We usually did it as a family but since I working that won't happen.. Today's dare is to call her up and ask her if she needs anything.. I will do it later.. Still waiting for the book but have opened a word doc to write my experiences. Book should be here any day..


----------



## Loving Husband

LWell I think I am starting to get her thinking. I sent her a text saying she was beautiful and glad she is here. Normally I would get no response. Yet today she told me oh please that's a load of crap. Sorry a bit harsh but you have no idea what I dealt with. I said back I understand what your saying and I'm sorry but I can only improve now and show you a better me. No response.


----------



## Loving Husband

Day 5: I worked all morning and when I came home I had to ask her 3 things I do that Irritate her . I got one of the three with my badgering. The other two are my timing of things and I pick on her. Another thing I don’t realize I do and will need her help in correcting it.. She in return asked me 3 things that she does that irritate her. I said Belittle me.. Hold things in and doesn’t think of me enough.. I think it went rather well.. We had a little relationship talk and explained how I did not know how hurt she was and confused cause of all the things that led up to this didn’t say she was this hurt. Further stressed counseling will correct this and will not stop until she is satisfied its working.. 

Took daughter out to dinner and a movie. She liked it.. G-Force.. Came home and wife was in the mood to talk a bit. Once again stressed over and over how she holds things in and I didn't know. That just a few months ago we talked about a 3rd kid. Now this. She said she was trying to protect me but I said it only made it worse. She said when she looks at me she only sees the hurt I did and doesn't want to be around me right now. I said you can't hang me for something I didn't know. I can only hope you let that pain go so we can work on making it stronger. She once again said she doesn't know who she is and after 18 years wants to find out. Still I am to blame but she has to see this is her fault not mine. I never locked her up and said don't do anything. It is my fault that I didn't make feel more loved by me. I should have continued to let her know she was beautiful.. Still I think this is progress.

BTW: she figured out I a doing the love dare..


----------



## Loving Husband

The back and forth continues.... Yesterday er other sister got involved and fueled it worse. She heard my demented wifes side and over-reacted.. Told her to come up to her house and to get away. I talked to her when I came home.. Just to explain my side.. After a few hours she thinks my wife needs to see somebody on her own along with the MC.. I think I have figured out my wife LOVES negative attention. It must be her fuel as to why she goes back and forth. People fuel her hurt and it makes it worse. Seeing me only makes it worse. I suggested she go away for a week and of course her crazy mind said I would say in court she abandoned her kids when all I wanted was to give her a break. It still comes back to one thing. Her hurt feelings and se tells me I am just supposed to get over it??? I swear.. I read so many more complicated issues and my wife has a bunch of hurt feelings over 15 years.. Especially when she held them in and I wasn't aware since she puts this fake face on.. Still as the morning went on we discussed the kids and why I wanted custody. I told her once again I said they would be better off with me. I asked her what she has done with her 8 year old this summer?? Not one thing. She then broke down crying and said fine if you want the kids. I did follow her upstairs and said thats not my goal. I just want to see everybody happier.. It is amazing how much of a circle we are in.. I said she didn't be a partner in my marriage for so long and I mage comments that hurt out of frustration. She says my comments made her feel like crap and she pulled back.. A vicious cycle that needs to stop.. I just wish my wife would see that all she does is give empty promises.. She told me this weekend that she would give the kids a bath and didn't. That she would put the chemicals in the pool and didn't.. Like the promises she made to our daughter about doing stuff with her this summer that never happened. This weekend was another chance.. She could have packed our daughter up and our son and went to Walmart to do school supply shopping. Yet she rather trap her kids in ALL weekend and sit on FB from 7am to 2am.. Of course I am to blame. You know she says I suck the life out of her. If we were not together she would have LESS time. Only then I think she would see it isn't me.. I wish I could leave but I am not doing that to my kids. If I go they will sit in a house and do nothing.. Today I am going bike riding with my daughter at a park.. MC on Tue should be fun..

BTW: today is day 6 and I am supposed to list positive things I like about my wife and compliment her on one of them. This should be fun...


----------



## Loving Husband

Last night I gave her one of the positive things about her I like.. I said her love and affection.. It didn't come out right cause the way I said that I have to compliment her on one it came out sarcastic. I said its cause it was awkward. She was curious as to what it was but didn't offer much reaction. She was a bit calmer yesterday. Did school supply shopping for daughter and came home around 7:30. Most likely stalled cause she didn't want to come home.. Todays dare I need to share a success my wife had recently.. To be honest I don't think she did have one.. She just goes to work and comes home. Maybe a FB app she had success in?? oh wait I can't break day one and say nothing negative.. I spoke to her sister last night before she came home and she had a different attitude about us. She thanked me for being so open with her. She seems to feel bad for me and my kids. Saying I don't know how many men would ever put up with this. Made me feel good that I am doing right by them. She has a little influence over my wife but she has seen how my wifes anger has flared up with her... Tonight is MC.. Going to be interesting...


----------



## Loving Husband

Looks like it will get worse before better. The MC session wasn't that good. She called my wife in before me to get to know her true feelings and intenet.. Well my wife kept telling her she is done.. The session wasn't to good as that was the focus. I am to meet with her alone next week. I am sure she is going to try and get me to understand her current feelings and a course of action for me.. On the way home was more talking about us. More of me tring to understand how she went from trying a few months ago to putting her foot down now. How her letter to me said she needed my help or she wasn't going to make it or he fact she wanted to do things with me more. Still the only thing I get out of our problems is a bunch of hurt feelings over 15 years. Most of which I hear was 15 years ago.. Like how she blames me for who she became. So after we got home I talked some more and said why not give it 6 months with the MC to see if it can work. 6 months with a professional. She was like I don't want to waste any more time. I don't have the strenght to do this again if it doesn't work.. She gets so upset with me cause it has to be my way or no way. I understand what she is saying but her way is a divorce. She keeps asking me if she should be miserable here. I said staying doesn't have to be miserable thats why I am doing he MC and the book..After all that she is trying to get me to move out.. Not sure I should or not.. One part of me says yes. It wil give her a chance to miss me. It will also give her a chance to cool down.. The part says no cause this is my house and I won't see my kids that much. especially my son who would probably never stay with me over night due not having the accomodations. I hardly slept last night. 3 hours straight and then pieced together another hour after that. If anybody has any insight on how to eliminate her hurt feelings I would love to know..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the roller coaster ride continues in my life. This morning she was still stuck on this seperation.. I thought about it at work and called her.. Said I might as well move out.. She sounded surprised when i said it. I got off the phone and thought about it. I started to realize if I did I would move into my mom's and I would continue to deposit all my pay check into our bank. I would be rent free but if I needed money I always had savings I set up a while ago for vacation money. I am the only one that can touch it. Still I thought about how the arragements would work and started to get mad. Due to being 45 mins away I would never see my kids. I work weekends and nights a lot of times. She has school. So I text her back "Do you realize due to my hours and days and school I will never see my kids?? I hope this is worth it to you"? After work I called brother and gave situation he got pissed at me. Said if she wants out tell her to leave. Don't let her push you around. Well needless to say it got me all round up.. After I got the food I went home. She arrived almost same time.. Son was inside and saw me. He went bonkers with excitement. I turned to wife and said THAT IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME! She said fine then we all stay and be miserable but there is no us. I said fine and stormed in.. As I was putting food away I showed her I puicked up one of her favorite lunches and said I think of you all the time even during this. She smirked away from me and I said what's that smirk for?? She said if you are trying to get brownie points you have a bad way of showing it.. I said what did I say?? She said the sarcastic remark I made at the end.. I said about the smirk?? She thought I was being sarcastic but I was stating a fact. Still don't know what that smirk was for.. Then I started on dinner and she worked on our green pool I left since she was to take care of it this past weekend when she was off. Her mother clened up and I watched a movie with our daughter. This is so much fun.


----------



## Xusan

Hello LH,

I'm so sorry that you're having such a tough time. It seems like as you're trying to tackle your old problems, new things happen to make everyting even more complicted (like the smirk incident). Our situations have a lot of similarities. My husband and I were also just talking about having another child. He was soo happy. We both were. I too, cherish the small, precious touches, the spooning in his sleep, etc.

I think it's good that you're both in the house. Love Dare would be much tougher otherwise. Hang in there. Things can only get better. I'll send positive vibes your way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Xusan,

I can't get away from our old problems. My wife refuses to let ANYTHING go. In the MC session she brought up when she was 16 how I told her how to wear her hair/make up/clothes... How can I defend that?? Yes when we started dating I did try to help her mature a bit cause her mother was so upset. It helped her build a relationship with her mom that she has today. Still after that I never said anything. She buys what she wants. She changes her hair the way she wants. In the past she has always asked me what I think about doing it a different way.. I would give my opinion.. This is a classic relationship about a women marring to young and losing herself in the marriage before she discovered herself completely. Now with 2 kids involved the struggle continues. Still this isn't the perfect way for my life. Yet I don't hold her responsible. My kids life and future are more important then mine and I can tell you most sane people think the same way. Her sister who knows her better then anybody in her family is trying to knock sense into her slowly. Nobody wants her miserable but she has to live with the choices she made and for once stand up for them. It's something my wife isn't very good at doing.. I work late tonight so I won't see much of her...


----------



## Loving Husband

Not a good day for my wife and her mother. I didn't talk much to my MIL but from what I gather she is giving up on her daughter. My wife is just being so damn stubborn.. She is only looking at herself and nobody else she effects. It's a shame my kids will be the one to pay dearly and my daughter is very sensitive. My wife tried to tell her in July about us breaking up and she cried so hard. Now if I am not around it will mess her up for life. I do not know why my wife can't see that effort needs to be done here.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well this morning the wife talked to me about us a little. First she asked if my text message to her had to do with the love dare. I said no. I mentioned I was trying to improve how I interact with you and give you compliments when I thought of them. Something I didn't do much when we were married. She does deserve them.. It's a fault I know must change.. Second she asked if I contacted that guy who she was sex texting. I said no cause she said he contacted her about a bizzare message. She said she ignored it. After that I talked to her about us and said you told me why does she have to make the first move always. I said well if you look at it.. I made the first move this time. I am the one that contacted the MC. I am the one that is doing the love dare. So if you see I am making the strides to change. She then said I see you going through the motions but I don't see a change. I said its only been 9 days of the book and 3 MC sessions. You need to give it time. Though I did point out ways I am listening to the MC. I am not being critical. I am not on top of her checking out anything she is doing and I am trying to compliment her more.. 


I discussed min more detail about the talk her mother had with her. She said she is tired of nobody believing her.. Her whole family is against what she is doing. Now she has given her side to each one and they all mentioned to her that she needs to giv every effort to work on this marriage. It obviously isn't what she wants to hear. Now my MIL told me that last night she was in another bad mood. Once again NOTHING to do with me. As I didn't see her. She has to realize that the anger is coming from within and not a product of me.. I really wish I wasn't here at times to have her see it but of course she would make an excuse as to why she is angry. I also sent her this article from the Washington Post that explains "good" divorces are not better then staying in marriages that are low-conflict. That all thos good divorce books focus on the parnets and not the effects of the kids. A study of 1500 kids proved there had lingering issues when they were adults. That people at every cost should try and work it out. Now they do say extremem situations where violence is involved would be worse to stay in it.. Yet they say 2/3 of divorces are not that way.. I hope she realizes before its too late cause my daughter will be messed up this year at school.. She is too sensitive..

BTW I did my Day 9 love dare a day late. I missed yesterday due to my reaction when I saw my son and wife. I was to greet her to reflect my love for her. I called her dear and said hows it going today?? Like I said before she was upset and of course got little reaction.. Onto day 10..


----------



## Xusan

Hello LH,

Day to day is tough, isn't it? I'd love to see that article. It's a question I have as well. It seems most peope think the oposite, that a "good" divorce is better than a broken marriage. But, things aren't black and white. What if your marriage is broken, but on the mend? The state of our marriages is always in flux. I'm with you. I'm going to give it all I have before thinking of leaving.

Keep on with Love Dare! Only good things can come of it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Xusan said:


> Hello LH,
> 
> Day to day is tough, isn't it? I'd love to see that article. It's a question I have as well. It seems most peope think the oposite, that a "good" divorce is better than a broken marriage. But, things aren't black and white. What if your marriage is broken, but on the mend? The state of our marriages is always in flux. I'm with you. I'm going to give it all I have before thinking of leaving.
> 
> Keep on with Love Dare! Only good things can come of it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Here you go.. There seems to be a lot of studies on this. Most counter act the mth its better to seperate then stay in a marriage. Now they do stress LOW CONFLICT.. Which most marriages are. They get a long just not functional..

Just Whom Is This Divorce 'Good' For? - washingtonpost.com


----------



## dobo

I'm curious what she wants you to change exactly. She said you're going through the motions but she doesn't see change. Isn't change action? You aren't doing this because she told you you'd better shape up or else. You've initiated everything.

Also, is she still drinking? If she is, does the MC know about this?

I agree that she needs could use some individual counseling. An individual therapist will not let her blame you for everything. They will deal with her feelings about what has happened in the past, and they will discuss with her how she can turn those things around and how she can better focus on the present. 

Also, is she still on anti-depressents? I hope so, even with the weight gain. But if she's still drinking, she's pretty much wasting the drugs. So she needs to get that sorted out. The weight gain can be dealt with with exercise and diet. Her depression probably can't be. 

I don't want to discourage you from what you're doing because I think it is wonderful. But if she's got an addiction problem and that isn't dealt with first, you may be wasting your time. Addicts rarely take responsibility for themselves and that's the first step in solving any relationship issues.

Don't underestimate alcohol as a primary part of your problem. It isn't the underlying cause (depression likely is) but with it there, you're unlikely to have the kind of success you'd prefer.

And same for her. She can blame you until the cows come home but if you divorced her (and I agree -- DO NOT MOVE OUT. If anyone goes, she goes) she'd have to stare in the mirror. Oh, she'd burry it with partying and alcohol, but she won't be any more happy. And you'd think this would free you from taking all of the blame but it won't. It'll still be all your fault. You could move to Mars and it will be your fault. 

The booze has to go.


----------



## Loving Husband

Dobo,

Thanks for the input.. What she is looking for is a genuine change on how I talk and treat her everyday. She wants to feel loved and respected without being critical or picked on. It is an endles cycle. Last time we did this I moved out. I left her alone and 2 months later she came back. She said cause her family told her. Now she reminds them of that all the time.. She said to me that it was great at first and then it all stopped. It went back to the old me once she was back. This is where she doesn't understand. I made the improvements to her but she never made any changes and what happened I pulled back. Now if I did learn to love her unconditionally I might not have went back to the old me. I should have pushed for counseling then.. 

She isn't drinking. Her last drink was the day the cops came. She is also off the meds. Yet the anger and rage is there still. She is like a ticking time bomb. Ready to explode any minute. She used to say that was cause of me but I haven't been around much lately especially last night and her mom said she was in a really bad mood snapping at everybody.. She should be on some meds and the first MC session she tried to get my wife to see somebody but she has no interest..

I agree the only way for her to see the real picture is if I wasn't around.. Yet I am not moving out now. She will have to just file for divorce to make our situation change. I need to be here for my daughter who starts 3rd grade this year. If I am not here I know her school work will suffer cause she is very sensitive. My kids are the ones I feel sorry for the most and the reason I am pushing for us..


----------



## dobo

Mine started 3rd this year too! She says she likes being a big kid. <g>

I'm glad she's not drinking. Or rather, I hope she isn't and isn't hiding it from you. 

She does need meds. I don't know what she was on but she can try others until one works for her. It takes weeks for things to stabilize, though, so she needs to give it a chance. 

You once mentioned the economics and that you can't afford them. From my POV, that's a very unloving thing and it would bother me if you felt that way about me. She needs help. You have to put her health above all else. Depression kills. And it certainly isn't any help to the family, as you well know.

I can understand why you pulled back. But then again, you only have control over yourself. If you do everything you feel that you can and you try and try and try and her heart doesn't change toward you, the only thing you can do is say "Enough!" and file for divorce. You cannot pull back and then blame her for causing you to pull back. That's not fair. She didn't cause you to do anything any more than you caused her to do what she does.

It is really normal to want to pull back. But if you don't see changes now, what are you going to do? Live in misery?

She doesn't feel loved. Yeah, that's clear. But is that really entirely your fault? You said she has self-esteem problems. What is she doing to work on those issues? Is it realistic or fair for you to be responsible for overcoming her limitations? She's the only one who can give herself what she needs there. You can love her and tell her she's beautiful and give her a lot of physical affection (apart from sex) and pay attention to her and she will still feel unloved because she doesn't love herself. You simply cannot fill a bottomless pit! 

She needs therapy on her own. Encourage her. Not for you. Not for the marriage. For herself. That is a wise investment.

Further, the therapy should be for her about her and none of your business. If she wants to talk to you about it, let her. But don't ask how things went apart from a "did your session go well? good" kind of thing. 

It can take a long time for a therapist to get through to her so don't expect miracles if she does go. A good one will be supportive, not attack her in any way, and will lead her to the proper conclusions over time. I think a good therapist is like someone who teaches yoga. they start out so gently that by the time you're doing difficult things you don't even know that they were supposed to be difficult!

I hope you can talk her into this. And what about going back to school? That's a great way to increase self-esteem.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the Meds would ahve cost another $200 a month and We are barely scraping by now.. She knows that. I would love to see her go back on the right ones. She has been on them 2 times now. Both after the birth of our children so Post Pardom might be an issue. She took herself off cause she also didnt want to be a pile of mush as she calls it.. They made her a zombie..

I have tried so much but if she is sick when do you give up?? My kids need both of us all the time. The only time I say quit is when we are divorced or she has an affair.. I pull back cause I am not geting the partner in this marriage. She has always been like a kid to me since no matter how many times I try to get her involved she has no say.. For years the decisions fell on me cause she wouldn't step up.. If she doesn't make any changes I will have 2 choices. 1 I can leave or 2 accept her for her and love unconditionally. That is te path I want to go down..

As for the therapist its an issue with her. She told me she is afraid of them. Mainly cause they wil get to the root of her issues and she told me she doesn't want to relive them.. 1 is the fact before she met me she was raped.. It's an unresolved issue along with her dad dying at age 8. Her whole family has tried to get her into couseling..


----------



## dobo

I was going to ask you if there were any underlying sexual abuse issues. She's got to know that she's not alone and that she's not responsible for what happened to her. She's only responsible for what she does now. And she doesn't have to go into what happened to her to make positive changes. My therapist dropped going into certain things with me because it wasn't helping me in the present. The residual thinking could be dealt with without reliving the very unpleasant events of the past. 

A lot of companies are now helping out when someone can't afford their drugs. Look into that as an option. And don't be afraid to share the financial problem with the doctor. 

The right dose shouldn't make her a zombie. It should help relieve some of her dark periods. Exercise is another good prescription. Does she work out at all? 

If you want to love her unconditionally, do you think you are up to it? I believe that's the ideal but I also don't believe it is possible. We all have conditions. You've stated two of yours, for instance. I wonder how much your guilt plays into this decision. While I agree with your decision to try, I also think you might be in a no-win. Further, if she's still locked into adolescence which it sounds as though she is, you do her no favors by taking care of her in this way. In a way, you're enabling her. 

I wonder if you've looked into any co-dependent literature. Maybe you need to stop doing so much for her and let her do things for herself. You can still love her but have expectations of her as well. For instance, if you do all of the laundry, stop doing hers. It isn't loving to make someone dependent on you. It is loving to teach them to fish.

You're in a tough spot. I hope you can find a way to be happy even if she cannot.


----------



## Loving Husband

Since she is afraid of counselors I don't expect her to see anybody. We exhausted all options for drugs besides her gp provided them and she won't see a therapist. She never exercises and I have asked. We got wii fit and when her weight went up she stopped using it. Mine dropped and showed her to encourge her. I also asked her to walk with me and no go. I try not to be a bad husband
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

She'd have to see a pych for the drugs and not all of them require therapy (which is often not with a psychiatrist but instead with a psychologist or a MSW) so she wouldn't necessarily have to go into therapy to get medication. 

Encourage her on the medication. She's not crazy. Emphasize that. She's got a biochemical imbalance and that's not her fault. Being female doesn't help with hormone fluctuations (a pox on the person that came up with that system!)


----------



## Loving Husband

I 100% agree but if I say something I am telling her she is the problem and needs to get medicated. I think this is more to do with post pardon as this cycle continued after each kid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

dobo has some great information. 

Your family doctor can also RX antidepressants if the psychiatrist don't work out.

You are right the pharmaceutical (sp?) companies have guidelines for reduced/free meds. Perhaps,she can first get samples to try then ask for the reduced price meds. 

As for counseling...it's very common to get anxiety regarding the initial treatment. In fact, some people have panic attacks prior but they have panic attacks anyway in regular life. It's a trigger for them. 

An idea would be to ask her to meet with the counselor for 3 times. If she doens't feel comfortable then she can bail. If you set a number, she may feel overwhelmed that she'll be there forever.

She really needs help. If she had cancer and refused treatment what would you do? You'd try anything. 

Of course all this burden is on you. Not fun. However, I think fixing her is a key to fixing your marriage....


----------



## Loving Husband

She agreed to 5 mc sessions with me and last week was #3 now the next she wants to see me alone. Probably cause the wife said she wants out of the marriag and will try and help me cope with that. Then she agreed to come back to the 5th one. At the first the mc tried to get her to see somebody but she rejected it. She is fighting me on it but yet it seems like she is looking for a change from me as she said today she hasn't seen it yet. I would love to get her to see somebody but she keeps rejecting me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

I came home and wife was getting ready to go to bed. I asked her if she read the article. She did.. I said there are some stats that prove your good divorce isn't better then a low conflict marriage. She tried to tell me ours isn't low conflict. Yet for the most part we didn't fight that much.. Plus no violence. I then talked about her past a bit. How she lost her father at age 8. How my father was a drunk and never home. I said don't you want better for your kids?? Don't you want there quality of life better? She said yes. So I said lets do the work needed to make their life better. A divorce will only make it worse.. Then she turned and said nobody cares about me any way. That is a poor Patti statement. She likes to wallow.. I then said no Patti I want to see everybody happy. Let’s get our hands dirty and go to MC until we can fix this. I have no problem going as long as possible to give everybody something they want.. I then asked about when we did this 5 years ago. I asked her to promise to me that this would never happen again. She said well you didn't follow through either. I said there again we both did damage. We both need to work.. She didn't have much to say after that. She has to stop running eventually. The problems will only grow if she continues to run because it will open up so many more problems.. Man this isn't fun. It's like I am talking to a bratty teenager. Who is just being defiant as possible..


----------



## Loving Husband

I printed out a report on passive aggressive and man it's like looking at my wife. Especially this part..

*The passive aggressive will say one thing, do another, and then deny ever saying the first thing. They don't communicate their needs and wishes in a clear manner, expecting their spouse to read their mind and meet their needs. After all, if their spouse truly loved them he/she would just naturally know what they needed or wanted. The passive aggressive withholds information about how he/she feels, their ego is fragile and can't take the slightest criticism so why let you know what they are thinking or feeling? God forbid they disclose that information and you criticize them.*

I could never say anything bad to my wife or I would get beaten up bad.. I am going to show her this article in hopes she will see somebody.. I will get a lot of flak from it I am sure..


----------



## Loving Husband

Btw she is looking into insurance for seeing somebody. Maybe she will get help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

I scewrd up today. I showed her the report about passive aggressive. Stupid me. I apologized to her that it wasn't right and I am truely sorry. She said I keep making it worse. I agree but said I am trying by catching myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Xusan

You knew she would react badly. Why did you show her the article? I don't think you were really expecting her to have an "Aha!" moment?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Xusan,

Sometimes my emotions get the better of me.. Though I did appologize and I think it helpped cause when I got home she was in an ok mood. Yet I was able to accomplish Day 11: What need does your spouse have that you could meet today? Example: Choose a gesture that says “I love you" and do it with a smile. She text me that we needed milk. I said I would love to get the milk. Though when I came home I wasn't happy. She was sitting at the computer again. Son was running around in a full diaper. Daughter still in PJ's and she said they didn't eat yet. It was 7:00pm.. Wife then says she wants to go out to sisters. She is 45 mins away. She took my daughter. She also said she might meet up with her HS friends for a little while. Tried to reasure me nothing is going on. Not looking to do anything. Nobody I would do anything with any way. I said ts ok. I said I needed to be more flexible to go out and socialize. I said its fine. As she was leaving. She gave son a kiss and asked if I was mad or pissed. I said nope. Have a good time.. Then they left. I expect them late. My daughter shouldn't be out that late but hey. Who am I?? It will give me time to read the love dare some more. To get caught up. I was able to give son a bath. he needed it as my wife has not for almost a week. I work nights. This was the first chance I got to.. I brushed his teeth and gave him some milk. Now I am finally able to rest after working all day and putting son to bed. Hopefully I recovered pretty good. Now watch her sister lay on her tonight. She is totally opposed her doing this also.


----------



## Xusan

LH,

I hear you loud and clear. I think I make mistakes daily.

It's wonderful that you're there for your son. At least you were able to bond with him and care for him. I keep repeating to myself that we need to love even if our spouses don't deserve it. This is so hard to do while being in so much pain, but it's necessary. We have to do this. It's what will make our marriages worth saving. We have to want to stay with our partners even after he kids are raised. She's not being a good mother, so you have to be that much more of an excellent father. Good call on letting her keep your daughter out late. It will show your wife that you trust her. Hang in there LH. Even in Fireproof, the wife didn't open her heart until much past Day 40. Hope. Faith. Love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

Wow! Loving Husband you are a great dad! I am worried that you you get a divorce that you won't be the one awarded custody.

You Wife is neglectful to your children. The bath thing got to me...after a week? Still in PJ's at night. Not feeding kids.

Does this worry you or have you accepted the situation as "nothing you can do?"


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpus,
This has been an issue of mine with my wife for a while. She tells me her kids are everything but I have yet to see ANYTHING that says she puts them first. I mean ANYTHING. It really hurts me... FB has come in front and before that it was the TV.. Sat her mom was here part of it. It should have been an opportunity to do something together... Go to a park. Go out to a store. Yet my wife thinks they are bagage and not her kids. The place wasn't picked up except where her mom did before she left. Right now they are running amuck and I have to go to work. With no interest in them or their daily life. She will make sure they are fed most part. My problem is why can't she see this is HER issues and I am not the problem here?? I can guarantee her butt won't move much from the couch. My daughter will be on my computer playing games and my son running around getting into trouble cause hes being ignored. He is so attached to me. He crys hard when I leave but nothing when my wife does.. I keep saying I am doing this heartache for my kids. They deserve better. I owe them and my family..

BTW my wife also admits to suffering from OCD.. She is crazy about washing hands all the time and dirt. Yet she is lazy too.. So can you get the picture?? She will let things pile up and not touch them cause she is lazy and its dirty.. One would normally think if you suffered from OCD you would be a cleaning freak.. Not mine the opposite. She will let everything pile up..


----------



## Corpuswife

You have your hands full. 

I hope she accepts individual counseling at some point. She is a mess. I know you know that. I commend you for sticking with her. 

The FB is a symptom of her problems. Once she calms herself down (mentally) and is able to refocus on her life...FB will calm down. She has many issues to be dealt with and it will take a good while. 

I wonder if she is "sick" of her life or if she's ever mentioned that?


----------



## Loving Husband

Yes she is sick of it.. She sees no hope and no good side. Everything is a routine. In the past I would ask don't you look forward to certain days or events? she would say no.. I have nothing in my life. Yet she has made little effort to fullfill her life. Like she is waiting for somebody else to do it. My family has always thought I have to fuel her happiness and I can't do it. I make her happy for a short time and then it goes back.. She never had a life she will tell me. She is very paronoid of everything. She thinks people are trying to babysit her. Watching over her every move.. While nobody is. Her mom is here to help take care of the kids and I am here to help the family.. She has always been able to do what she wanted but her own lack of confidence and laziness has gotten in way.. I haven't said much to her today.. She said your ingnoring me. I said no.. Just not a lot to say. Then brought up the love dare from yesterday about getting milk.. She is obviously curious about this book.. I offered to read part of it and she said no so I backed off.. If she wants too she will tell me...


----------



## Corpuswife

Loving,

I was never as bad of as your wife, but I went through depression. It sucks the life out of you. You have no REAL reason to feel that way you do and you are searching for answers. "Why am I so unhappy. It must be______." 

Having depression is a very selfish disorder. Not fun for anyone. I eventually made my way through it. I praise God that I will never have it again. I didn't look forward to anything. I faked my smiles and laughter for the most part. I was dead inside. 

My H has it now. He wouldn't admit it. Afterall, it's the marriage that made him unhappy. Perhaps, it was a catalyst but not the cause. Not now. I pray for him.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the spiral continues.. She tried after she stopped the pills to get better but I see it going down hill. SHe started the day by throwing a load of laundry in and vacuuming the floor.. Sounded like a positive start. Sad part when I got home nothing else was done. The dishes from the day are still sitting there. She had a glass of wine. Though it seems like only one. Our daughter still didn't get a bath/shower.. Which I did when I got home. She put our son to bed but didn't brush teeth and said hes been a pain all day. Another weekend gone and stil no bonding with kids. Now she went out to get cigs and I bet to talk on the phone. Oh well I need to read the book some more. Todays love dare is to give in on a disagrement. I am still trying to think of one. Seriously we didn't have a lot of them. I might have to think about it until tomorrow and pick it up then,.. I could always ask her but what point would that be??


Corpus,

I got that letter from her 2 months ago.. She asked why she is this way. Why she can't stop. She knows its wrong but unable to change. She called herself a mess. At the very end she stated she needed my help or wasn't going to make it. She wanted to do things with me and this family. Then asked for me to be around more. Yet now she wants to run from me. Blame me as the problem..


----------



## Loving Husband

In an odd move the wife came into the office and sat down asking me a question. Said why did I get my family involved. I said I needed an outlet. I needed some one to talk to. She said it makes it harder cause she has to walk around with her tail between her legs. I said sorry but sometimes you have to do the hard things. I know its tough but when me core is being ripped from me I have no where to go. Since my home is in dysfunction. She said if we were your core then why you let it get like this. I mentioned the book and it explains how we allow all the bad to come in and treat the ones we love worse. Worse then co-workers. I am trying through the book to better myself and already see me catching myself in areas that would have cost me more pain. I asked if she wanted to read the book and she asked me to leave it near her which I did. I mentioned its very powerful. Every dare you will see what you have been doing wrong. She then said your not the only one to blame. I said no but you point the finger right at me. You take it upon yourself to go to the extreme.. you could have said Mike we need to see somebody and worked from there..You didn't have to upset everybody. There are better ways to handle things. I then told her I am taking the kids out tomorrow. She said why do you pick on me for my upbringing. I said I don't.. (This was about her not doing anything with kids). I said you should want to give them more. She agreed but you have to do something with them.. Then she asked why I do things with the kids but not her. I said we worked opposite hours and days. It's not my fault. Yet I said nothing stops you from doing anything with your kids on your days off.. Yet she doesn't.. I don't think its up bringing. I think its desire to make your kids happy. Its a drive that she is lacking cause of depression. She asked if I was moving out. I said I am not. I can't cause it will disturb the kids too much.. She said nothing..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well today was another in the line of interesting. We woke up and I spent time upstairs thinking and watching fireproof again. I came down and talked to wife that I was going to take the kids to a local zoo. Its only 10 minutes away. We there only about an hour or so as it was small. Daughter saw puppies and was bugging me for one. I know we are not going to right now as all responsiblities fall on me. When I got home wife initated more us talk. We went over more of the same. She was even joking a bit and said you have some pretty good timing at avoiding the biggy anniversaries. Of course she was smiling.. We ad a litle sex talk. She was trying to see if I was interested and I said no I amnot as long as we are this way.. She then tried to cover her grounds by saying I wouldn't mess with your heart like that. She also asked if getting undressed in front of her teased me. I said no.. I am thinking about other things. It still goes back to her forgiveness and compassion which she obviously isn't ready to do. She did a lot of crying and everytime she sees me she cries some more. I ask hr whats wrong and I get no response. Took daughter out to eat diner. Asked if she wanted to go and of course not. Then went to Friendly's and took home a dessert for her.. Which she ate.. I know I shouldn't have but I can't help it. I genuinely try to give my wife everything I can to make her happy..


----------



## Loving Husband

After got home from Dinner Wife seems to have shut down again. Not sure why but she is disinterested in everything. Mainly on FB and barely put son to bed. Has very little emotions right now. Might be drained from our day of talking. Man this drama is driving me up the wall. For the most part all I did was play with my kids. My son has a ball with me...


----------



## Loving Husband

Wife ran late this morning.. We had a little "sex" talk.. She discussed for instances about masturbating. She asked what would I do if I came down and saw her?? I said I would offer to help. .. She said right now that would complicate the situation. I agree but the man in me would always come out first.. After that we talked about her not feeling like she was good enough. I said I didn't try to but I wanted to be adventure some. She just mentioned I went about it the wrong way. I then moved into complimenting her. Saying I love the way she looks. Her curves and appearance. That has not swayed in 18 years.. I hope she can see I am making more of a point to express my desire for her more then just sexually..


----------



## dobo

I have to point something out to you -- your wife isn't wrong about everyone watching her and babysitting her. They are. You are. You watch her every move and amplify it by giving everything so much weight.

The biggest problem I see is that you aren't loving her unconditionally though you say you want to. You are doing the love dare because you want her to change. You aren't doing it only because you love her and want happiness for her. Don't you think she knows that? 

You've got to stop watching her 24/7 and coddling her and catering to her.

Tell her to get into the bathroom and give the kid a bath. The kids need to eat -- feed them. 

Don't ask her. Tell her. And if she says no, tell her that she needs to remember that she refused to care for her children. She made the decision, you didn't make it for her. Then suggest the love dare for her toward your children. Not toward you, but toward them. If she can't love you properly, the very least she can do is try to love them.


----------



## Loving Husband

dobo,

I guess my wife feels that way cause she doesn't move from that couch. Her days and nights are spent tehre. SO I guess we are watching over her in a way but trust me she has plenty of of alone time when she stays up till 4AM on the weekends or 2am weekdays. We are all asleep. I am doing my best on the love dare. I am understanding the reasons but still trying to find my way through it. It is taking time and being up to day 14 it's still fairly new though I have learned a lot.. She doesn't think you can ever love somebody unconditionally. Not saying me specifically just in general. As for telling her what to do that is some of the things that got me here. She feels like I treat her as a child. This is why I have backed off. I already mentioned giving the kids a bath and doing more. Yet she blames her up brinnging on not doing stuff with kids. Though as we all know excuses are just that. She has had thoughts but never follows through. It was like the concert she wanted to see. I said why didn't you do it?? She said she just forgot. I can tell her till I am blue in the face. She has to figure it out for herself. All she does is says she is either a miserable wife or a bad mother and nothing improves. 


I never thought about asking her to do the love dare on her kids.. That would be interesting. Maybe thats a way to get her to read it. I was thinking about going to church more in hopes she would come. I really think she could use a little good feelings...


----------



## dobo

Loving Husband said:


> dobo,
> 
> Yet she blames her up brinnging on not doing stuff with kids. Though as we all know excuses are just that. She has had thoughts but never follows through. It was like the concert she wanted to see. I said why didn't you do it?? She said she just forgot. I can tell her till I am blue in the face. She has to figure it out for herself. All she does is says she is either a miserable wife or a bad mother and nothing improves.
> 
> I never thought about asking her to do the love dare on her kids.. That would be interesting. Maybe thats a way to get her to read it. I was thinking about going to church more in hopes she would come. I really think she could use a little good feelings...


So how long does she get to use the "it is my parent's fault?" card? And, what's she goign to say when your children pull the same card out to excuse their failing in school or their inability to maintain a relationship or to hold a job? Her upbringing is in the past. What's now is what is important. 

There's a great line in a Mary Chapin Carpenter song -- "we've got two lives, one we're given and the other one we make" -- she was given a life that she's not fond of. Great. Haven't a lot of us. (I could tell her a thing or two hundred about having a ****ty upbrining.) But now it is HER fault. Yes, she is a lousy wife and mother. Who makes the choice to be that each and every day? Her parents? You? Did you guys get together and vote on it or something? 

IMO, if the love dare doesn't work you need to put her on her own. This is to the point of ridiculous. Yes, she's depressed and who knows what else is wrong with her. But if she doesn't want help, then she doesn't get to be a burden on you and the children because she can't gather the strength to give a rat's ass about anyone but herself.

If she wonders why she feels like nobody cares about her or loves her she needs to look in the mirror to see who it is that abandons her first thing every morning -- herself.


----------



## Corpuswife

dobo, that is a strong post. Many good points that make sense. 

It all about her....depression is horrible. She needs help.


----------



## Loving Husband

I agree with him and my family feels the same way. I can't keep enabling her to sit and do nothing but it will always be in mt nature to help and care for my family when they in trouble. She sees the light but will she walk to it? Her past makes me hair doubts. She needs dr phil 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

I agree with him and my family feels the same way. I can't keep enabling her to sit and do nothing but it will always be in mt nature to help and care for my family when they in trouble. She sees the light but will she walk to it? Her past makes me hair doubts. She needs dr phil 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Btw she told me yesterday that I almost got her to the point where she wad about to leave her kids here. She didn't say when that was as I don't think its within the last week or two. I believe it would be in everybodys best interest if she did leave. It would keep her from blaming me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Xusan

What a thing to say! Yes, she has issues with you, but how could she say she wanted to leave the kids, too? Maybe she realizes you take better care of them? If so, she should see that she needs help! I don't know how you're not pulling your hair out. I wish I had some advice for you. At least you have your children. They are extremely lucky to have you as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

I know she thinks I take better care of the kids. I just talked with her mom and she agrees. If my wife could take 2 weeks at her moms and her mom stay here maybe she will think about it. It would give her a chance to think in peace. That would have her address reality now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well this lovedare is puting me to test. Wife came home from work and she loked mad and tired. I asked her if she was ok she said i'm fine. I said you mad at me? She said no.. So I left it alone. She sat on couch and started to fall asleep. I sent daughter outside to ride bike. I got dinner ready. Fed the kids. Asked the wife to wake up to eat ad take care of our youngest as tonight I had a MC session by myself. I went there and let it all out. The MC hopefully now has a better picture of our marriage and life. She agreed my wife has depression and shouldn't make any life decions based on her current state. She also thinks itss best for the kids to work on it. As our marriage isn't at a point where ts hurting them as much right now. Not more then any ther married couple having some problems. Our daughter being super sensitive would have problems if we did divorce. I came home and wife asked me about the session. I said the MC thinks it would be a bad decision to make any life decisions right now. She got really defensive and said I have not contacted a laywer. I haven't done anything. I said ok just stating what she said.. Then here is where I was tested. The dishes were still left from dinner i made. She then said our daughter needs a bath for tomorrow and she asked me. I was thinking you were here for 2 hours and you couldn't manage to give them a bath?? Well needless to say I kept it in and tried to refocus on just doing the tasks because I want to not because its a chore. So I cleaned up the dishes and gave our daughteer a bath. She did help get our daughters school supplies ready and got my son ready for bed. That was a help.. 

After the kids went to bed she tried to get more info on the MC session but I didn't say anything. She then went on about our current situation. She was geting really upset. Said her mother will be here every weekend and she feels like she is being baby sat. I mentioned this all falls back on my job 5 years ago when I was laid off. Everything went down hill. In 2001 we built a house. had our first kid.. I lost my job. I became the stay at home dad while she went back to work. I know she resented me for that. That is what led up to our first split.. Now here wer are 5 years later but in another stressful situation. Both have to work. I work odd hours and days and she hates her mom here but she helps ouy with the baby sitting. You get the picture?? She always has somebody here.. Watching over her.. Even though I haven't been. Our REAL issues are our life.. It's the main reason for our problems. She even agrees with that. If we didn't have our son I almost bet we wouldn't be like this.. So she realizes life has compounded this. Why can't she see that you need to wait it out.. I guess it's building again cause school starts tomorrow.. 

Btw: todays love dare was to not do an activity I normally did and spend time with her. I am usually on computer at night. This night we watched TV together.. I need to pary a lot to help me with this.


----------



## Xusan

You are doing so well LH! You have a strong will. I have lots of hope for you both. Hopefully your MC will be able to help your wife tackle her depression, so you will have a more level playing field. Hang in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

The MC said she will try to get her to keep coming. I really think our situation is compounded with life. Sure I know I did things that hurt her but its only part. She feels so trapped because of our situation. The life I chose us to go. So I get that thrown at me in many ways. Not that she says it but the effects of it. I am seeing her reaction. That plus this mid-life crsis. This desire to be a little free. I need to keep reading and trying to mold me into a less confrontal person so she has no where else to look except herself..


----------



## dobo

While I agree that the stress of another child can push a relationship to the brink, don't you think that the underlying foundation was already broken and that any stress would have caused this kind of upset? It isn't the kid being born. It isn't "life". It is the people experiencing that life and what they're made of. Your wife not only doesn't have the tools, she is afraid to get them. And that sucks. She's more attached to her deficiencies than she is to your family because she chooses them over you guys continuously.

I don't remember -- does the Love Dare say that you should be a doormat? 

That said, I agree that you should get your ass off the computer at night and spend that time with your wife. It shouldn't take a book to tell you that you need to spend time with her in low-to-no conflict situations, relaxing and having fun in order to rebuild your marriage. 

Your wife isn't the only person trapped in a difficult situation. But her biggest trap is in her mind. She's holding herself back. She thinks the only way to freedom is to dump everyone. She doesn't want the responsibilities of children. Too late. She's got them. So tough on what she wants on that front. Time to look toward other areas to gain strength and perspective.

What does she do for herself? Encourage her to find a hobby or a group or something to join and to express herself in. Then her mother being around will be a true blessing because her mother will be seen doing something useful (which she is) rather than watching her. 

Is there something she's always wanted to do that she needs "stuff" for that you can buy for her as a gift out of nowhere? If you could tell her that you understand that she feels trapped and that because of guilt, she will sit on the couch and veg and avoid things she knows she has to do. And wouldn't it make more sense for her to take that time to do something that instead, makes her happy? Then she'll have used that time wisely and will have energy to bring back to the family. She's denying herself all pleasure because she knows she isn't living up. 

She really needs to get individual counseling of her own -- not the MC, but for herself. I can't say this strongly enough. 

Also, tell her that if she does stay with the MC that you won't ask her what they discussed. Individual sessions are individual for a reason. If she feels like talking, that's fine. But if she doesn't, that's fine as well. She has to have some place that's just for her and I don't see that she has anywhere to turn at the moment.


----------



## Loving Husband

Dobo you have it pretty down pat. My wife is totally afraid to face any of life's problems. She would rather run and blame then look at herself in the mirror. I remember her telling me she would say sorry to me and I very rarely did but there is a big difference between saying sorry and taking responsibility for that sorry. She says but never faces it. The love dare doesn't say be a doormat but it also believes you should be more constructive on the problems instead of flying off the handle which gets nothgin resolved. Then again I am used to it with my wife cause I would try so hard not to make her explode.. 

See thats her whole problem she doesn't do anything for herself. She tells me all the time. She doesn't know who she is. Yet she struggles with her identity all the time because of it. Blames me for so much of it. yet it's her personality that has caused her to not discover it.. It stil goes back to her not knowing what she wants. She has a full time job most of the year and of course 2 kids she needs to watch. It is hard for her to break away long enough I guess. Though I thought the drive of each person would make sure of it. Maybe mines just stuck..

She keeps saying she wants to go to counseling but as I stated before what she says and what she does is 2 different things. Example. She wanted to take daughter to movies and to a potery class this summer. Did she do it?? No I had to a week before school started. She says she wanted to quit smoking years ago.. Did she?? No.. I even gave her a deadline or I would divorce her and she still couldn't do it.. I am not holding out hope for ANY change she tries in the near future. Not cause I don't want her to improve I don't think she will from past..


----------



## dobo

She sounds like she has an anxiety issue in addition to depression. She's afraid.

There are non-judgemental counselors out there. Maybe you could offer to help her find one -- go out and pre-interview. Don't tell your side of things. Promise her that you won't. Just explain what she needs (understanding, gentle encouragement, no judgements, someone with experience with people who have been pretty much taken care of all of their lives and who have anxiety and depression issues, someone struggling because she knows it is time to grow up and she doesn't know how) and then see who strikes you as someone able to relate to her on the level she requires.

She needs help. She just doesn't realize it is out there.

Her fear is really quite rational. She thinks everyone else knew what to do instinctively and that that part is missing in her. She doesn't realize that everyone struggles. She's actually more normal than she thinks. If she didn't have underlying issues that prevent her from growth, she'd be just like everyone else. So she need sto address those underlying issues.


----------



## Loving Husband

She takes meds for anxiety. She loses it a lot. She tells me about the heart palpitations and I am concerned she won't see50
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

She takes meds for anxiety. She loses it a lot. She tells me about the heart palpitations and I am concerned she won't see50
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

She takes meds for anxiety. She loses it a lot. She tells me about the heart palpitations and I am concerned she won't see50
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

She takes meds for anxiety. She loses it a lot. She tells me about the heart palpitations and I am concerned she won't see50
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

She takes meds for anxiety. She loses it a lot. She tells me about the heart palpitations and I am concerned she won't see50
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Man my phone kept sending the same post.. Oh well..
I am getting a different feeling from the wife now. We both came home same time.. I had a bad day at work. The stress at home combined with work is giving me problems. I had to talk with HR today about it. They were trying to find out what is wrong with me. As I am very negative right now. I tried to explain I am under an unsual amount of stress. As I told the wife this she said she was allowing me to vent. As she was listenin she made a comment about dumping more on me. I agreed and said its getting to be too much stress. She said the stress is high on her too right now. I thought to myself then what the hell are we doing this to each other.. We then discussed about her taking a long vacation to her moms. Whether its 5 days or a week plus. She needs to destress. She needs time to clear her head. She asked what if it works ot worse for you? I said I am hoping you miss us. I am hoping it gives you the chance to see clearer that we allwant you here and happy. Then she said your not going to wonder if I am cheating. I said this is about you feeling better about us. Not a roll in the hay. I said besides your not like that which she agreed. We discussed about the issues that got us here. She brought up our son. She said you wanted him so bad look at what it did to us. Pushed us to the breaking point. Now she did say she would never not want him but because I asked for him she puts it on me. She wanted him also just made it easy to blame me. Hell I did a lot of the midnight feedings any way. She then took a shower and I went upstairs.. Shes now on FB as my MIL reads to our daughter in bed.. I hope she does take a long vacation from here.. She did ask me at first but if I left she would have more stress as now she has to do it all... I was on day 16 and I prayed for her this morning..


----------



## dobo

Can't she go somewhere other than to her mother's? Sitting there having her mom look at her, judging her the entire time (as in, "you belong home with your family") isn't what I'd call a place to destress.

BTW, ask her to be very careful talking about your son. If he overhears, it will mess him up. My younger overheard me say something to my ex- about getting pregnant (how unhappy I was because my marriage was unhappy) and she didn't hesitate to ask me about it in a round-about way. I felt like dirt. She's always been more clingy and this didn't help in that area at all. :-(


----------



## Loving Husband

Her mom would stay with me. She would be alone.my son is only 2. But I think its bad she feels that way about son.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

It has a lot less to do with your son than the circumstances. 

For me, when I got pregnant again (like what was I thinking? That it couldn't happen? Yes, sort of. It'd been 5 years since the 1st.) I was like, "I don't like him as the father to the 1st one, how can I do this with another one?" It seemed like it'd be all burden on me and none on him. It wasn't about the baby. It was about the marriage. 

Looking back, I'm so sorry I verbalized it. But it was a commentary on how much I didn't want to be married and obviously if I don't want to be married I have no business having an other child.


----------



## Loving Husband

Her mom would stay with me. She would have total peace and quiet. My son is less then 2 but he's tighter with me then her but its a shame she looks at him like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well it was a combo of her lack of knowing who she is and the burden of another kid. I Gabr gotten 2 stories from her but those are both reasons she got upset again. Going back to baby after 6 years and herself. Now I hope she can see it will get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Now the drinking has calmed down. She still has some wine but nothing that would make me think its starting again. She isn't eating very much at all. Now my wife isn't happy about her weight. I said I was concerned cause she's not asking for lunch when I go to store. She also only rats dinner half tke time. I asked her and she says she's hungry but in the past to lose weight she would do this. ISm getting concerned. Yet no matter what I say I am not able to help. I hope she doesn't stress her body trying to lose weight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

Does she have any real friends? People who love her and will encourage her to take care of herself.

If you have to, borrow money to get her into see someone. Tell her you'll do anything to help her be well. She needs it so badly.

I really feel sorry for her (and you) but mostly her. She's so lost and alone.


----------



## Harvard

Moving out stinks but in this situation is best. You obviously want the best for the kids and that's great! There is no telling if she will file for divorce in my opinion but your presents is not helping matters only making them worse. In teh event you do get divorced you will receive and agreed order of visitation anyway, maybe being apart will help both of you realize what you need what you want and what you reuse to live with any longer...good luck


----------



## Loving Husband

Dobo no she has no friends that is part of problem. Nothing giving her hope and her family is trying but they are trying to get her to face the problems not run away which is making her more upset cause nobody is supporting her running away. Even if they are right she I'd overwhelmed. I feel bad but she can't always run.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

If she were rational she'd know nobody is going to support her running away. However, people can support things that involve her taking care of herself (eating well, exercising, having time alone, time to do things she wants to do, down-time/rest/restoration). 

I don't nkow how much of a girly-girl she is. Would she enjoy a weekend at a spa where she's pampered? You know, nails, massage, hair, and that sort of thing? She *needs* something. 

No, it doesn't solve everything, but these are the sorts of things that people do for themselves to replenish all that's been taken out of them. She's running on empty and nobody can continue to do that.

Can anyone else think of ideas of short-term "getaways" that might help this woman? A weekend here and a weekend there can do a lot for someone. If she can just catch her breath she might come to the proper conclusion in other areas, too -- most specifically investing in herself enough to find a good therapist.


----------



## Loving Husband

I suggested that. She is a girly girl. I think I did that in aug. I will try again as she needs it. Thanks for the info.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

Don't suggest it. Buy her a weekend, silly man!!

Men. Can't live with them, can't make them figure out that you don't ask someone if they want a gift before you give it to them, you just give it to them. It is called a surprise. ;-)

(Just ribbin' ya.)


----------



## Loving Husband

Lol I am a bit thick like that. I wil do the research tonight and find a close one. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the wife was once again touchy.. Last night she was on FB like normal and she was chatting with a guy. It's a single guy she knew and she talks to him daily. I said to her that I am concerned when a single guy chats basically every day. Then she got upset about it. Saying nothings going on and he's been a perfect gentleman. I said I understand just uneasy feeling. I asked her to reverse it andshe said she would react the same. We then went on talking more about our situation. I still keep getting I am only part of it. Yes I have said things in the past that hurt her. Yes we haven't been connected in a while. Mostly due to our job and home situation. Our 2 kids play a huge part. Our son probably set us over the limit. Yet my issues with what she is doing is the fact she said she wants to find herself but in the past has never made the effort. She has conformed to our lifestyle. I can not be blamed for that. Now she says she is fighting for it. I said ok but what is it you want?? What do you need?? She would tell me I don't know. All she knows is she wants change. She wants to be happy but doesn't know who she is.. I then let her fall asleep last night. We did a little more talking this morning. I think I am only part of her issues. I know my job plays a part. I said I would look for another job. She then said your not going to find one now. It's too tough. I work mostly wed-sun. Can open or close which is till 11PM. For years I have done this and its worn on her. By her response I know she wants me ot have a normal job.. That's part of it. She feels so trapped. Same day in and day out life. She has her mom here and me here 7 days a week. She thinks looking over her but I try to leave her alone as much as I can. Still I ask what she needs and she doesn't know. What will make her happy. She doesn't know. I keep offering her to stay at her moms and she keeps avoiding to commit to it. I mentioned that if you allowed your life to go like this I can not be blamed. If 5 years ago ou needed more and didn't work towards that it's not my fault. I can not be blamed for her lack of drive to want more. I have been more then willing to work with her but facts are she doesn't try and I think thats cause she doesn't know how to go about it.. As I was finishing tlaking to her she got an anxiety attack. I asked why and she said she gets them when I am around. I asked why cause I only was talking soft and trying to listen.. It's mainly because of the stress between us. So how do we let go that stress?? I hope she takes the break needed.. To clear her head.. I still can not believe I am blamed for her lack of trying to make a life for herself. It hurts cause if she did this 3 years ago I would be doing the same thing. Trying to help give her what she wants. I only wish she knew..


----------



## dobo

I'm thinking it is time to take a break from all of the relationship talk. You're not moving forward. You're beating a dead horse. So drop it for a while. Talk about other stuff. Do things together. Live life instead of talking about it for a bit.


----------



## Loving Husband

Yeah and the best way is for one of us to move out. Trying to get her cause she is the stressed one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

She blames you because you are the one there and she has no answers!

Understand this...I am telling you this because I have been in your wifes position and frame of mind (not as severe perhaps). There is nothing that you can do for her. Just be patient and kind. Whatever you suggest she will make excuses not to do...for the most part.

I started BACK to life about 4 years ago. Up until then I was going through the motions. I was a stay at home mom for 10 years or so...I lost myself. I begin individual counseling for about 4 months in which I was able to start living my life. I began work on my graduate degree. A class at night. I started interacting more on MY behalf..not my families. I STILL didn't feel great about my life. However, I was taking action (the key). One step at a time.

Along the way, I progressed but it took time to start feeling better. One good thing built upon the other. There were setback as well. However, the main thing that I would like to point out was it had nothing to do with my H. Sometimes, he would annoy me or I'd question his commitment or love, but it was never him. I was searching for my happiness when all along it was right here.


----------



## Xusan

What did you both enjoy doing before you had kids? What about setting up a weekend (or even just an evening) of fun time for just the two of you? Her Mom seems to be willing to take care of the kids already. It seems she doesn't know what she wants, so I don't think you should ask her. Just start it rolling. This will go very well with Day 18's Dare. And, yes, no relationship talk!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpus I can see what you are talking about. Nothing I have ever done was enough and her lack of who she is I can not be blamed. She looks at me as controling cause she would never step up. Yet that is my fault. I never wanted to be but if I didn't no decisions would have been made. For years I wanted her input but she has a problem making decisions. I am going to make every attempt to stand by her as long as she doesn't become destructive. I see she is lost still hurts being blamed cause I tried to be good.

Xusan she has no interest in spending time with me. She still is mad and views me as the enemy. Its my fault. Its my job. Its me wanting a 2nd child. My decision to move closer to our jobs and away from her family. My fault I work odd hours and days. My fault for having her dress a certain way when she was teenager. You get the picture? I am the problem. Oh I also told her to not talk to her friends and not exercise.. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## feylovelyheart

Mike...

I understand your shoes but you can't blame your self (or you just being sarcastic  ). you might be part of it but your wife has part of it too. Her fault is not letting the past behind her. she should step up for herself. 

She is a mess. I am sorry to say that. but it seems she doesn't realize how much pain she caused. I think she's being selfish for only thinking about her, but I can't blame her due to her circumstance. she really NEEDS to see somebody. She won't ever get better without helping from psychiatric. 

She needs her meds so badly so she can have more positive attitudes. Abandon her children like that is shown that she can't function properly. She is chronic depress. I know how hard it would be for you because I am in your position right now. If she doesn't want help her self then you need to help your self for you and the children. 

I hope you will find the best solution for your problem.

Keep a good work Mike. I am proud for what you have done. Keep it that way.


----------



## Loving Husband

I just feel really bad and powerless to make it better. Last night I came home and got a text at 7pm from her saying her stomach really hurt and her daughter needed to eat and we needed milk. Now she was off all day.. I asked if she was ok and needed anything.. She didn't want anything for her stomach but food. So I pickd up subs and milk and brought it home for them. Same as usual though. On couch with FB. Son running around with no attention. Daughter playing on computer. So they eat. Wife is having a few glasses of wine. SHe actually rubed my arm and I looked at her. She said yeah I know I am touching you. First time in a while. Probably from a the wine. Not much was really said as I was trying to distant myself from her. I did ask about one incident in July in which I tell her she is very confusing. It was an issue where I was doing the dishes and she came up to me and said if the kids were not here I would ____ ___ you right now. I mentioned that and said these are some of the examples as to why I was confused. I am just trying to show her I didn't know she was this upset cause I saw at times that she was happy and for her to do that she had to be in a good mood. Still as the night went along I avoided much of her and basically left her alone.. Though just before I went to bed she was chatting with a guy in california. She sarcasticlly said is 3000 miles far away.. I said its fine I don't care. Though she wouldn't chat with him. I said be my guest go ahead. She still didn't want to but finally did. She was talking to him about the Love Dare I was doing to her. It's like she was making fun of me for doing it. SO I walked away and she tried to stop me to talk about it but I just said good night and went upstairs to bed. It almost seems like this is all a joke or a way to get attention for herself. Like she is punishing me and the more she keeps me attached the more control she has over it. I need to go back to just talking to her about basics of life and ignore her. I am going to go to bar after work to watch football.. I don't want to be here. I will surely get flak cause she is home with kids. BTW she reminded me she was supposed to go out last night. I said you could have I was here. It's not my fault. Once again pointing out times when she has let them pass by..


----------



## Corpuswife

She is one selfish woman!

You seem down and at a loss at this point. 

So sorry that you are going through this....I know you have to do what you can and not look back to save your marriage. I am afraid she isn't capable of doing much saving herself.

Don't forget to take care of you. You are important in this marriage and family. It's good that you are going after to work to relax and watch some football. 

I can't believe the amount of FB time that your wife and others spend time. They truly will never have a fulfilling life...how can they expect this if they are on the computer all day/night? It's beyond me. How can you have a normal IQ and not get it? You aren't living your life. This goes for the gamers addicts as well. WOW!


----------



## Loving Husband

Its an escape from reality with the ability to still interact. I did it so but as bad as I still took care 
of family and house. Hers is worse. Her mom barely talks to her cause of it. She leaves early sat cause she ignores her mom. Now she text me today that I took her chat the wrong way. It just proves she cares about our marriage. I know I am going to get crap for going to barl. Her stomach hurts still and she asked if I was coming home from work. I haven't told her yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

Coupla observations :

You're in a rut, too. You're covering the same ground time and time again. Let it go for a while.

The best way to avoid talking about the state of your relationship is to stop talking about it. You have control over you, right? If she leaves it is easier but she's not going so... I think that's something you just need to drop.

Also, don't rise to her bait. Don't say you don't care because she knows it is a lie. Don't lie about how you feel. Just don't talk about it. You aren't required to say boo to her when she's taunting you.

Get out with the kids. Go bowling. Find some other dad and their kids and go out. 

IMO, you're at a position where nothing is progressing but nothing is going backward, either. That's a time to take a breather. Stop asking her about things. Stop telling her things. Just live your life. If she wants to join you, she will. If not, you'll know what to do.


----------



## Loving Husband

Dobo tie advise is right on. I will try and read the book and watch what I say. I text her I was going to bar and she said go ill live. It was drama through out day. Like I can't get upstairs to look for antacids. I forgot about allthe drama I dealt with. Any way I told her if she needed me home zr anythumg to text me. Then said I love you. Not expectimh to hear from her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

She's making some odd moves but they are still hopeful. So have some fun on your own.


----------



## Loving Husband

It lasted 45 mins. She text me this is bs I'm in pain and your at a bar come home
D take care of your kids. So I'm going home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

When you get home and she's not in real pain, leave again. Tell her not to text you for things she can handle on her own. That's not fair. You're allowed down time just the same as she is and since she gets a boat load of it, you require some as well.


----------



## Loving Husband

I wemy home packed up the kids and went to my sisters. She did thank me but I don't know how much real pain she is in. I guess I will never know. Will enjoy the night with my kid
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

She's in a lot of pain and it's not the stomach.

I feel for you that you want to save a marriage that she doesn't do (1) thing to participate in...not even in her kids lives.

You must have strength somewhere deep inside. Strength enough for you kids. Just remember to carve out some time for you every once in awhile.


----------



## Loving Husband

My strength comes from looking at my kids and what they need. If I leave my hours and days will make it hard to see them if I domy get custody or live on same town. I came from a divorcedduly and it sucks. I never learned my dads side and I can't do that to them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well came home and son was about to fall asleep. Changed him for bed and got his milk ready.. She did give it to him and put him to bed. I then told daughter to get ready for bed. I went upstairs and she stayed on couch. I did come down before bed and said you know your stomach or the ulcers is probably from not eating. She said you might be right. I mentioned I was bugging you for over a week about you not eating. You can't do that or your body will shut down. Now she is going to stay home. I am getting daughter off to school and son up.. She is asleep still.. Probably didn't go to sleep until late. Going to be a fun day with both of us home.. Maybe i'll do the lawn or take the baby out..


----------



## Loving Husband

Me time... Today I took care of the green pool.. Threw out the dead solar cover. Cleaned our shower and tub and bathroom.. Came down and did her dishes from the weekend.. Went outside and vacuumed out my 2 cars. Didn't touch hers.. Then went to bank deposited money and took money out of savings to fix our window well leak problem.. Now in a few hours I am going back out to see Monday night football. Especially since I lost out yesterday. I will not come home from her texts this time. Though she knows I am safer now cause I meet our church softball guys their and there is no chance of a hook up.. She has gone with me in the past so she knows the situation.. I might take my daughter also.. She likes going for the food..


----------



## MrsVain

OMG!! when you told me to check out your post, and then the first thing i saw was "Today I took care of the green pool..." i had to laugh, becuase i did that last week. lmao.....
i havent read all your post but i can tell that we are in the same situation. WoW. it is nice to know i am not alone, but it still sucks.


----------



## Loving Husband

Yeah I said it's like a mirror image except different sex of spouses. I just told her aobut the MC and not doing it any more. I said I think you need to do step 1 before step 2.. She was I think you got it backwards bub. I said I think you need to go see somebody. We can't do any marriage stuff before yourself. She seems to think she doesn't have any problems and it's all me.. My fault for everything. I didn't get into it and just held my tongue like I am supposed to do.. Just let it roll. Let her keep thinking I am the issue. The more she blames the more she doesn't see it. I asked her if she was going to see somebody but I don't think that will happen. I guess I will stop MC for now.. It's like beating a dead horse..

I decided to take daughter to bar with me. Now I am really safe.. 

I also asked aobut her moving out and she is still putting things off and said when she feels better. Of course her stomach problems are from not eating which was from stress and depression..


----------



## MrsVain

well, i got to like page 6 or 7, so i still havent read it all. So you were going to marriage counceling? with her or just by yourself? How did that work?

I have thought about doing that but havent yet. I still might but i actually dont think it will help. I mean, i feel like i am doing or trying all the right things he is just unwilling. And 2, he has been in and out of some kind of counselling all his life. I dont think people like him see counselling has a tool to get better. Probably just another excuse for him to be able to put the blame on someone else.

And i am not sure if anyone has already said this but i think you should stop asking your daughter how she feels about mommy and daddy. Believe me she will let you know. I am not saying stop talking to the child, just be careful in what you say. Instead of asking what she thinks about mom/dad, just say so what do you think, she will say about what, you say oh anything, if it is bothering her she will tell you. Or just ask her How do you feel. period.

it hard, i know. i cant tell you how many times i have to bite my tongue, but i dont say anything about the problems i am having with my husband to the kids and dont talk badly about him either. Very hard to do when you are about to blow your lid and the child innocently asks you where is daddy. lol. i know they get vibes but i rather them get vibes but remain clueless then for them to be crying because daddy hurt mommy feelings again or whatever.

i am glad to hear you are spending time with your daughter, and i am sure you dont mean bar but somewhere else? or is it a bar and grill thing? if she moves out then you have coustody, which would be good for you.


----------



## Loving Husband

My daughter is very sensitive and she will not talk to us aobut much. It concerns me cause I think she is afraid that if she talks about it something will happen like me moving out. So I am not going to push it. Last night when I left my sisters she was crying cause she wanted to stay there.. The MC isn't working cause she isn't read yot address her issues. She most likely never will cause thats who she is. Always blame never take responsibility.. I only went to one session by myself not sure when we will go again..


----------



## MrsVain

hmmm, that is just too bad all around. Maybe your sister can talk to your daughter. 
and my husband is somewhat similiar with never taking responsiblity either. in my case, after 3 years of sh*t i have almost given up. i am just waiting, and watching.

good luck with you thou


----------



## Loving Husband

BTW the bar is a restaurant that has a bar their. A lot of us bring the kids cause its mainly a gathering for food and drinks. It's a nice time out..


----------



## Corpuswife

Glad you got to go out! 

MC isn't much use when the other spouse doesn't admit faults or participate. 

It is best she do it on her own. Maybe you might want to do you own individual as well. It's great to vent and direct your thoughts. I know it's been helpful for me.

You are a strong man.


----------



## Loving Husband

I wish I was a little more of what my wife wants. As she tells me I am ****y/arogant/insensitive/uncompassionate. I don't know how much is me or a result of our relationship cause my wife is a huge drama queen and I might have tuned out some of her grips as that. I am not sure cause I show compassion for others. Was fun though but had to leave early cause daughter was tired and school tomorrow. I usally don't take her cause its later on most Monday nights. Figured it was a treat.. When I came home wife was a little cooler. Explaining that when she is in pain it just makes it worse. Then she brought up when she is pushed to limit it gets bad. She was explaining I guess our son and how much attention he requires. Still I don't know what to say to her. I talked to the MC and said no more. She asked if my wife could call her to maybe arrange a meeting for her to see somebody. I doubt my wife does..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well a little reality for my wife this morning. She gets up at 5 to start her day to go to work. Her side still hurts and she is a bit nasty because of that and she says she is hot. As I come down with son she is getting daughters stuff ready for school and she starts going off. Talking about helping her out and then she brings up the weekends lately when my son gets up I come down with him and drop him off and go back upstairs. I used to let her sleep. So now I point out. Unless I am doing it all I get the attitude. She just continues to go off about it not being right. I just continue to point out situations in which I made her life easy and if we were not together what would she do?? Giving her a glimpse of her path if she chooses. Yet it did prove my point to her. Unless I am her servant I get a load of crap.. Something everybody has noticed. So i went unphased. I just let her know what she was doing and was pleasant. Asked her about her side and to have a nice day..  Its day 21 and I am earning to bite my tongue more and react less unless its constructive.. 

Last night we talked about our personalities how the traits that are strong on me the confident side. The determination is what I am giving our kids. I said you are giving them the loving andcompassionate side which you are stronger at. Together we are completing our kids. Yet we have to be together for that to work. As I pointed out I didn't get the dad side in my life. I have very little confidence in doing much as I fear screwing it up. It's a part I probably miss from my father. I do not want that for my kids. Then she said so I should suffer. Again, I said no its called compromise. Still saying the work has to be done. Marriages need a lot of it as time tests us. It's coming out more and more that our son is the main issue right now. His stress has set us over and she agrees with me. I mentioned in a year he will be older and better. We need to ride this through which is exactly what others said.. Still trying to get her to take a week off. She strugled getting 1 kid out the door on one day as yesterday I did it. How is she going to do it 5 days a week?? Yet if I wasn't here who would she yell at then?? I hope she saw a bit of the issues might not be worth all the extra work. That I pointed out I don't have the biggy problems that make marriages end and of course she asked what those were. We all know the ones like affairs/drugs/alcohol/abuse.. So if I moved out and left her here would she be better?? Knowing all the work on the house falls on her. All the kids fall on her. Plus work.. I just can't do it to my kids cause I would never see them and they are not being taken care of now by her..


----------



## dobo

I'm really not happy with your son becoming the scapegoat for your family problems. It isn't fair to him. He didn't cause her to be stressed and to not help herself. He didn't do anything. He's INNOCENT. 

Don't you dare agree with her and let her put this on him. It is wrong, plain and simple.

Also regarding your daughter -- a lot of children believe in "magical" thinking. She's not unusual. You have to assure her that she's just not that powerful. She cannot think a situation into existence. And that if something happens that does match her thinking, it is because she could see and interpret the facts and understand that it could be an outcome. She's intelligent, she's not making anything happen.

I really think in a lot of ways you aren't helping your wife because you're a broken record on so much. She knows the reality. That she doesn't want to admit it to you shouldn't suprise you or anyone else. But you beating her over the head with it daily isn't giving her time to think and decide. You're essentially blackmailing her into staying with you. Is that what you really want? Her to stay at all costs and to once again, blame you for it? And this time she'd be right.

I'm starting to wonder what else you've pushed her into. Maybe her feelings are more valid than you consider.


----------



## Loving Husband

Her feelings are valid is some aspects. The way we have interacted has been hard. She is very quiet and I am strong. She has played the helpless female role for years and I have had to lead the family. As I said in past posts this has more to do with me being FORCED to be the decision maker more then wanting to be. I don't try and beat her over the head with it but I try to give her insight to future if she decides to go that route. I also try to prove in some aspects how good we can be together. My wife lets her emotions lead her and a lot of times doesn't think clearly about the big picture. Gets stuck on one aspect and that drives her. Kind of like her self discovery and that being the fuel to her being independant. 

I don't blame any of my kids for this. I have handled my responsibilities fine and even told her I have no problem putting my needs last. She told me she does the same but then why are her needs first now??? I throw it back on her shoulders for not stepping up to the plate with the decisions she made in her life. To be as selfish as she has been is uncalled for and not fair to me and the kids. Her mom even asked her you used to be a little spitfire but with Mike your not. She can't understand why. I have no problem with her standing up to me and I have NEVER once threatened to hurt her in any way. I would never so why she doesn't stand up more I don't know. It's why we needed MC but we can't do that before she does step 1..


----------



## swedish

To me it sounds as though she feels trapped, overwhelmed, unhappy with her life at the moment. From her standpoint, counselling will allow her to talk about it but she probably doesn't see that helping or changing the situation. She may be looking for something other than 'suck it up and go forward cuz I am'...she probably needs some real options for change that will make her feel less trapped.


----------



## Loving Husband

You know when I brought up the fact of me changing jobs to get better hours and days she didn't say no we need oyour income. She said you won't find anything in this economy and besides you never really had a 9-5 job. I did though for about 3 years.. That's when times were good. Just prior to kid number 1.. I understand your point and I think it plays a factor for sure..


----------



## dobo

Dude, she hasn't played the helpless female alone. You've been right there bolstering this behavior the entire time. You are a co-conspirator. 

I think you've given her as much insight as anyone can stand. She's not stupid. She knows. She gets it. 

Either you stop saving her and change the dynamic or you shut up about being all put out about saving her. What you do for your kids is one thing -- what you do for her is another. So stop confusing the two.

And you're lying about putting your needs last. That's what this entire thing is about. You are up to your eyeballs with putting your needs last. And nobody could blame you! 

Stop being Mr. Martyr. But do open your eyes to what you're perpetuating by going on and on about how awful her life will be without you. She knows. Why do you think she hasn't left? Not only because she has no place to go, but because she's not sure if she'll be allowed to come back if she does leave and she's afraid.

She doesn't need you to tell her to go. She knows she can. She just can't figure out a way to do it safely and to remain in her comfort zone. You're not helping. 

She also knows what she's not doing at home. I mean, everyone is telling her. How many ways does she need it pointed out? Is she low IQ? I doubt it.

You talk. You complain. You control. You push. And yet, there you are, saving her from herself.

Like I said -- do what you must for the kids and stop taking care of her. Do not rush to her every whim. Do not do her laundry, cook for her, clean for her, pay her bills, wash her car, anything she can do for herself she should.

The love dare is getting to be my biggest source of "what a bunch of crap" out there. Your problems have nothing to do with love or lack of love. Your wife has emotional problems. She hasn't grown up. Showing her you love her and that you're a different man won't make her grow up. The love dare cannot solve this problem. Did they market it as a panacea?


----------



## dobo

Loving Husband said:


> You know when I brought up the fact of me changing jobs to get better hours and days she didn't say no we need oyour income. She said you won't find anything in this economy and besides you never really had a 9-5 job. I did though for about 3 years.. That's when times were good. Just prior to kid number 1.. I understand your point and I think it plays a factor for sure..


She's negative. But does that mean you shouldn't do what you say you think is best?


----------



## dobo

Thinking about it -- don't you think that everything you are telling her bashes into her head that she's helpless, that she can't make it without you, that she needs you, that she has no choice but to stay married?

Is that the message you really want to deliver to her?


----------



## Loving Husband

Dobo I really do appreciate the hitting over the head with the frying pan. I am trying hard but I still keep slipping. No matter how hard I try to avoid tlaking to her about much of anything I keep allowing her to bait me in. It's my fault that I don't stop it. I will still try and focus.. Can't guarantee I won't need more hits over the head. 


I think your right about her moving out and she is afraid. I think there could be 2 factors. First of all what you said about being able to come back is one. Once she's gone she won't have an easy time moving in.. Second I think it would force her too look at herself and there will be nobody to blame. 

Like I said before my enabling is making it harder. It has always been in my nature to help her whenever I can and this has been my downfall at the same time.. This morning she left the dishes from last night and said if you don't do them I'll do them when I get home. I am tempted to do them cause I can't stand seeing them sit but I know I shouldn't.. 

I see what you mean with the love dare but I still think I can learn to be more compassionate and forgiving along with being able to speak to her without hurting a the same time. 

As for the job I hate what I do but it provides a good income and without it we would go under in less then 6 months. So it will make it tough to change now.. I would be more willing to change IF we sold the house and went into a smaller one but I don't think she would buy another house with me in the current state so I rather just stay where we are... 

Once again thinaks for all the reality info.. I have no problem listening to my issues and mistakes. That's the only way I can learn.


----------



## Loving Husband

dobo said:


> Thinking about it -- don't you think that everything you are telling her bashes into her head that she's helpless, that she can't make it without you, that she needs you, that she has no choice but to stay married?
> 
> Is that the message you really want to deliver to her?


No you right. It's not the message I want to deliver but I also only want to help her... This is why we need to be seperate. For us to act like a family is only making the issues worse. She still keeps relies on me cause I am here. If I don't do the things I normally do she yells at me.. What's the answer??


----------



## dobo

You don't have to take a position if it doesn't meet certain criteria. Figure out what those are and then start looking. Looking is the first step. Don't know what you do but spiffy up that resume, or whatever it is you need to do (update your portfolio, brag book, whatever.) If nothing better is out there, you don't make a move. 

Gotchya about the house and such. OTOH, if you had something in mind, a good position that would provide a lot of other benefits, then you can lay out a proposal to her. You don't know what she'd do. She might go along because the alternative is a lot worse!


----------



## Loving Husband

dobo said:


> You don't have to take a position if it doesn't meet certain criteria. Figure out what those are and then start looking. Looking is the first step. Don't know what you do but spiffy up that resume, or whatever it is you need to do (update your portfolio, brag book, whatever.) If nothing better is out there, you don't make a move.
> 
> Gotchya about the house and such. OTOH, if you had something in mind, a good position that would provide a lot of other benefits, then you can lay out a proposal to her. You don't know what she'd do. She might go along because the alternative is a lot worse!


Funny thing I do 2 things that require odd hours and days. I used to work in the internet field.. It's 24/7 job.. I am currently in sales. Yes that means weekends unless I ind a office sales job. Right now I am in retail...


----------



## dobo

But most internet things you can do from home, correct? And if you're talking hardware, you may be on call 24/7 but that doesn't mean you work 24/7. Sometimes you have to. Most times you don't.

I'm in a geek position, myself. I can work from anywhere.


----------



## Loving Husband

I used to when I was in the business. I went to work 3 days a week home rest. I was a Sr. network Engineer. POP mamgement which included hardware replacement.. But thats when we were doing well and I was up the food chain. Now if I start I will be bottom and that means 2nd and 3rd shifts. I try but unfortunately thats the case.


----------



## dobo

Consider going back to school.


----------



## Loving Husband

BTW: Thursday is our 15 year.. WOooohooo.. I guess that will be a quiet day...

Also,

Wife talked to me on phone. Said she might go out with a few of her HS girlfriends. Aske dif I was mad or ok with it. I said it's fine go ahead. She was like it's not confirmed yet as they are still talking about. I just said let me know... This just proves she is still in this marriage.. Though I have very rarely said no to her going out.


----------



## dobo

Being considerate is always a good thing.

What are you going to do about your anniversary?


----------



## Loving Husband

dobo said:


> Being considerate is always a good thing.
> 
> What are you going to do about your anniversary?



I don't think anything. She already made it clear she doesn't want anything. She joked around last week about me getting out of another big anniversary. Told her I would try it again at 20.. She laughed and said you would too.. I have tried gifts in the past and she told me not to do it so I didn't plan on anything. I tried to take her out to dinner on Sat and she said no..


----------



## Corpuswife

LH: I really believe that DOBO has hit the nail on the head or the frying pan on the head!!


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpuswife said:


> LH: I really believe that DOBO has hit the nail on the head or the frying pan on the head!!


Don't you start swinging too Corpus.. :2gunsfiring_v1:


----------



## Loving Husband

Well she went out last night for the first time in a while. She says she met with her HS girlfriends. The one she hasn't seen in 15 years.. She came home after 9.. I already fed kids. Did the dishes. Gave te kids baths.. Got their teeth brushed and put my son to bed. Also picked up the toys from the son. She came home and said she feels destressed. That she needed it. I just said good.. She then asked about daughters pictures and the options. I said it doesn't matter to me. She was like you always have an opinion. I said it's only to keep the money under control. So I left it up to her to make selection. Less then an hour later I went to bed. I wish she was out so she could miss the family more.. I wonder if I can keep up this quiet cool approach. Maybe if I play it off like I could take it or leave it might force her to make a move.. Since she has seen me persue. If I just exsist maybe a different reaction will happen.. Well work calls...


----------



## feylovelyheart

dobo said:


> I'm really not happy with your son becoming the scapegoat for your family problems. It isn't fair to him. He didn't cause her to be stressed and to not help herself. He didn't do anything. He's INNOCENT.
> 
> Don't you dare agree with her and let her put this on him. It is wrong, plain and simple.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## feylovelyheart

OOh mike...

It seems getting harder each day. I am proud of the effort you put on it. I feel for you. the drama that you face it everyday. Sometimes I don't understand how come you can be that strong. It seems you have long way to go. I am not sure if your wife will realize her mistake as my H never does. 

Can you just drag her to the psychiatrist and force her to confront her issues? 

I know this is not a nice thing to do and not a good thing to do. But she really needs to make a move for her sake.

Keep writing Mike...I hope good thing will happen soon.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well I think things are a little better. After I got ready for work we talked about her night. She thought I was pissed but I was tired last night. Though she agrees her personal needs are getting better she made a comment about us not. Right there she is looking to see us improve. I mentioned once we drop the resentment we might get better. I offered to be near her more like watching tv together. I guess we will see. I sent her a text for my dare letting her know I love her even if she doesn't love me right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well it's been quiet. I have started to just exsist with a smile and work like I have been. Wife was very angry yesterday. She said work towards end of day got to her and she didn't eat dinner. I went food shopping and came home. She picked up both kids. I made dinner for them but only daughter ate. I fed son.. She sat and had a glass of wine. I kept asking her if she needed anything.. I cleaned up dinner and did dishes. After that it was 7 already and I was tired. Sat around family room playing with son. At 8 I asked her if she wanted some popcorn. Which she said yes. I made it and thenwent upstairs to watch a movie. Bame down around 10 and said good night.

I am still doing the love dares and on day 23. Not all have to do something for her. I do feel different the past few days. I am just being nice and considerate. Regardless of what she does. Like yesterday not moving from the couch to help. It still seems if I do that she's ok. Which falls in line of if I am servicing her I am an ok husband. I still have to remember this is the price to pay to be with my kids right now it's worth it. Hopefuly we can be a family eventually.


----------



## Harvard

I have been reading parts of this looong saga and I do completely understand especially with your last statement; "Like yesterday not moving from the couch to help. It still seems if I do that she's ok. Which falls in line of if I am servicing her I am an ok husband. I still have to remember this is the price to pay to be with my kids right now it's worth it. Hopefuly we can be a family eventually."

Last March I went through a similiar situation. My wife had a place of her own all set up an dsecurity deposit paid for, she was ready to move in. I had to accept this and did but never wanted her to leave. Then one day she came home after having dinner with a friend and sat down next to me on my couch (bed) she said she wants to try and keep this marriage. We still have struggles and since then she has stayed with a friend for a week to think things over. (this wasn't that long ago) She once told me as long as we both care we will make it, you obviously care for your wife. Hopefully she will come around like my wife did on her own and sit down with you to talk. By the way, things started to change in her once I accepted what is...


----------



## Loving Husband

Nice story Harvard. I wish that someday she will do same but not holding breathe. Its ok though the love dare seems to be giving me more peace. Today is our 15th anniversary and I left a card by her purse. I text her happy anniversary let her know I loved her and asked her out to dinner. I also mentioned I wanted to spend time with her and asked if she got card. I got no response. Its ok though its hard to love when your not loved back but ita not bothering me as much. I feel a little better inside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

I think its getting to her. I text her cause she didn't respond and she said no about going so I said ok no big deal. So she responded back don't be like that. So I called her to understand what she ment and she wouldn't tell me. I said you know the hardest part about love is loving a person that doesn't love you back and she said in a low tone gee thanks. She sounded very tired and quite Calm with me even though she said its been rough for her. I have to keep the positive motions going
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

You better be careful or you may guilt her into leaving because you're playing the martyr.

Think about the difference in the message : 

- I love you.

and 

- I love you even if you don't love me back.

How does that make the other person feel? Grateful for your love or burdened by it?


----------



## Loving Husband

Not sure. Its a genuine feeling I have. Not trying to. Its a very emotional day and it hurts not to spend time with her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

Telling someone "I love you" is a gift. Telling someone "I love you even if you don't love me back" is anything but. That makes it about you not getting what you want from the other person.


----------



## Loving Husband

I understand what you are saying yet I seemed to let her know it was more of a determination statement more then a guilt thing. Still I will try and not come across that way. Still it will be hard for her to "Miss" us when I am home here doing everything to make her life easier.. No reason to change on her part. Don't know if I should keep on trying to get her to take some time away or just drop it..


----------



## Corpuswife

Dobo has a wonderful point!

I know you are trying to save your marriage and it's an uphill battle. You are sounding, as times goes by, a martyr. Be careful.

She may see you as one and that is the last thing she needs. Even though she doesn't step up to the plate....she doesn't have to..you do it all! Bless your heart. I can't believe the effort that you put forth. This is making her become a weaker person-if possible. She figures that she isn't able or capable of much. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy!


----------



## Loving Husband

This is why you can't liste to what she says.. She was in a very bad mood today. Probably cause of all the happy 15th year anniversary emails and cards. She let me have it at home.. Vented again about why she is mad. As the night went along she started to cool.. We had "sex" talk. She already told me she is very frustrated. So since we are married and still faithful I offered. Not as a pity thing but more to help and rather me then somebody else. She said that won't mess with your mind? I said does it matter? After her shower we came down and watched a little TV together. This is where the conversation turned more into working at saving it. She once again asked why I involved family. She said it makes it harder to come back cause she said she feels like she has to move foward and push for a divorce or how it will look. I can not believe that she would be worried about that over her kids hearts. I mentioned nobody wants us to split up but Patti this is hard work. The easy part is to run away from the feelings. The hard part is working at them. As for the sex it didn't happen but she made a joke since I am doing the love dare. Day 32 is sex and she said to me last night that it wasn't day 32. Sex has never been our issue.. Being together and doing things together hasn't.. its our circumstances and hurt feelings.. I keep asking her to move past our past. Hard though..


----------



## Loving Husband

Before I left today we were getting kids ready for school and we were constantly bumping into each otherp. I would get near her and put my hand on her hips or back or brush up against her. A little joking around about it. It was just some playful touching. She was ok with it. Forgot last night as she was falling asleep I gave her a kiss on the cheek. During the day I sent a few texts saying how nice it was to be close to her and joke around. That I felt the best I have in a few months. That I hope we can build on this. She didn't say anything in return but I did call to make sure no upset and she sounded fine. I hope we can build on this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

I honestly think that you talk too much. And I think you are co-dependent as hell.


----------



## Loving Husband

I do talk a lot but if I didn't her anger would have been boiling more last night. Allowing her to vent seemed to help. Now we did talk about her taking that breather still. It would be best just to relax. Not sure I'm a co-dependent I think I am just passionate about my wife. Somebody I adore. Dobo I like your posts usually but your a little off here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

Imagine if you hadn't talked and had turned off the TV and taken her hand and taken her into the bedroom...


----------



## Loving Husband

Never would have happened. She needs to feel safe. She was testing the sex with me. Seeing if I would be ok with it cause she said it would mess with my head. My wife is very sensitive. I hopefully opened up future connection. She also loves having somebody express desire for her. As she told me I didn't a 2:58:11 PM so she is sucking this up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Loving Husband said:


> Never would have happened. She needs to feel safe. She was testing the sex with me. Seeing if I would be ok with it cause she said it would mess with my head. My wife is very sensitive. I hopefully opened up future connection. She also loves having somebody express desire for her. As she told me I didn't so she is sucking this up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Btw when she was in the bathroom naked I leaned in and she pulled away. This was before our warm talk on the couch. So I did try
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Xusan

It's hard not to overanalyze, for me, so I imagine for you too, Mike. I think we do it because the connection we once had with our spouses is now broken. The flow of information/affection etc. that we used to take for granted is now something we have to work hard for. And, all the work is yielding a fraction of what we once had. I don't know how you do it LH. Not only are you dealing with a wife who is imovable as a rock, but you also have kids and work. You're very strong and such an inspiration to me. Thank you.

I'm glad you had some playful moments with your wife. Hold on to that memory. Let it gve you hope for the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Yeah its up and down. We are making some progress but until she learns to forgive her life will be angry and bitter all the time. She will have to learn forgiveness cause everybody will make mistakes. Its I feel the biggest reasons she has high blood pressure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

I kept quiet all night at work and let her relax. I got home after 11 and she was relaxing on FB. She was talking to one of her friends while I say next to her. She said she was talking about me and I saw her typing she needs to think about us and is confussed. She got off FB and talked to me. We discussed once again sex and she was concerned about no touching or anything intimate. I said its up to you but in a backwards way it might open door for us. After an hour or so of tv I made some suttle moves. She was acting playful saying you don't know I notice you itching
Your hand up? u said no with a smile. Well we did have sex. While it was awkward it was decent given the tension. I could see she is still torn by us. Afterwards she told me she has to think. So I left her and went to bed. The next morning we say on couch together very close with me rubbing her leg. She talked about the family going out for Halloween together all dressed up as vampires. Thought that was a nice sign of our future. I did dare day 26 where I took responsibility for my actions that hurt her. As I was leaving for work I tried to slip in a kiss and she turned away. Guess not ready for that. Its ok time is needed. Sent her a nice text telling her I am glad she is in my life and my wife. I am tempted to do the love dare over again after 40. Just to grill it into my head. I hope this contunes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Anothe nice night. We sat and watched the game together. Then we washed the dishes and I did some playful hugs and kisses on neck she seemed to like. More future talk. During her layoff she wants to paint our bedroom and bath and asked me to help. After the game I have her a peck on the cheek and said good night she smiled. Today is dare day 27.. Most likely my biggest causes of hurting my marriage. It's about how I didn't encourage her and how my high expectations hurt our marriage. It is the biggest hurdle I feel I have to get over. 

Edit:

BTW I sent her some flowers to follow up on the good weekend. I am trying to show her I don't just send when I am in a dog house but also when we are not fighting. Also, she bought a 12 pack of beer on Thur which was our anniversary and finished it on Sunday. I hope she isn't using it to get closer. maybe to help along the process of geting close?? Worries me for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

She is being considerate now. Telling me she has to go to Rite Aid to pick up some stuff and will be a little late. Another thing she hasn't been doing a lot lately. Mostly doing what she wants and not telling me much except for big stuff like going to her sisters for the day.. 

She sent me a text thanking me for the flowers.  This response is the most I have gotten in a while. I got all choked up when I saw her text.. Things seem to be going better for sure.


----------



## Loving Husband

After she came home from Rite Aid I made dinner. I did my love dare. I read the chapter to her cause this dare is the biggest problem I caused.. It was about how I have high expectations and push them on her which causes her to rebel. So I sat in front and looked he in the eye apologizing for the way I have made her feel and promised no more. Whatever she does is a gift and no more expectations. I have to allow her to be her and a human to see what she can do for herself without my expectations. After I gave her a hug and a peck on the cheek. I then helped her get the kids ready for bed. I took a shower and went out for Monday night football.. I gave her another peck on the cheek before I left and she sort of smiled or laughed. At the game I text her if she was mad.. She replied immediately back no.. I came home and the is the biggest surprise I have had from her in a long time. I sat next to her and she grabed my hand and held it. She then said hey and turned my head and kissed me.. I was floored.:bounce::smthumbup: She asked if I was mad.. I said are you kidding.. I was dying for this and you made my day. We sat and watched the rest of the show together and I then asked if she wanted to come up to our bed.. She said yes.. I was just happy to have her next to me.. I snuggled up and took a deep breathe. She then asked what would you do if I was naked here. Bingo a sign she wants to have sex. I had her touch my heart to feel it going crazy.. So we did and it was better then last time for sure. I told her after I was content on just sleeping next to you.. So she asked why I had sex. I said well I will never turn it down. When I was lying next to her I told her I loved her. She didn't say aything at first and then asked am I mad she doesn't say it back. I said Patti I do it cause I feel it. If you don't yet don't. I can wait. It is my gift to you and you saying it in return is a bonus but never expected. I also told her about sex. What I do for you is my gift. I don't expect anything back. If you choose to thats great but no more expectations.. I thought I was going to sleep great but I slept horrible. I was so excited she was in bed I hardly slept. She didn't sleep well either. It's been over a month and we need to readjust. Yet this is great news. I really think she is back... Obviously lots of work to do and today is day 28.. Will follow through on making these changes permanant. She left for work today with our daughter dropping her off at the bus stop.. I didn't get a kiss good bye so I was a little disappointed. Still I feel SOOOO much better. I want to see if I can really give her that opportunity to see what she has inside..


----------



## knortoh

WOW - I am sooo happy for you.........hold on tight to yourself 
be content


----------



## Harvard

That is progress. Don't let her know you feel bad about not getting a kiss goodbye. she sounds like she is still unsure about how she truly feels. Let it come to her naturally and don't nag her about what you feel or don't feel this will only prlong her progress. Hopefully she will feel love for you again soon. One more thing, you do talk a lot, be careful dude, make your points and shut up cause that drives women nuts. Good luck-I think we are all hoping for a happy ending on here.


----------



## dobo

Excellent news. Keep up the good work! But remember there will still be yo-yo behavior on her part. So continue your patience.


----------



## swedish

Loving Husband said:


> I came home and the is the biggest surprise I have had from her in a long time. I sat next to her and she grabed my hand and held it. She then said hey and turned my head and kissed me.. I was floored.:bounce::smthumbup: She asked if I was mad.. I said are you kidding.. I was dying for this and you made my day.


I must be emo today...this got the tears going...great to hear!!
:smthumbup:


----------



## Loving Husband

To be honest I think it had to do with day 27 dare. It is by far the biggest issues she has told me in the past. I think the fact of me admitting what I was doing was wrong. Tearing up as I said it and promising a much better future.. That with a followed up hug and peck on the cheek probably got her thinking. When I got home she wasn't even on FB. Which tells me she was really thinking. Tonight is back to school night. Going to be crazy. She already told me she is being hammered at work and barely got me a shopping list for the store.


----------



## Xusan

LH,

This is BIG news! I'm so happy for you! I want to add m encouragement to he others here. Keep it up. You've been awesome! Enjoy and try not to overanalyze. If things slip back a little, remember improvement isn't always linear. Hope, faith, love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Yep thanks guys. The slip back has started a little. Today after she got home I noticed her mood changed once we went to back to school night. My son was over tired and going nuts. She started to get a little anxious. When we got home she was having a full blown panic attack. We talked about her job which is a MAJOR stressor. Unfortunately it has to be discussed. When she will be on layoff the action plan on what to do. She makes good money when she works and her job in the past covered her benefits as long as she went in once a week. She doesn't have to pay into her medical for herself or the kids due to time served. Now with the Bankruptcy nobody knows and she could get laid off within a month. If she needs to find a job she needs to find one that not only will pay her salary now but a little more due to benefits I would have to pick up. So this is something always on her mind. I talked about possibly downsizing the house. Also, refinancing again... If I only got the position I was supposed to get she could find any job as my salary would have gone up 20K a year.. So combined that with her period coming she ended up taking a zanax. Now fell asleep on the couch. She said it's most likely the panic attacks as to why she is on the couch as she is feeling it. So I kissed her on the cheek told her i loved her.. Made the coffee for the morning and turned off all lights and tv.. Hopefully this is just a small speed bump..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well she woke up late from her night on the couch. She sat on our bed waking me up and said she needed that sleep. She took a whole zanax. That was probably the main reason she didn't move last night as she had no energy. I did slip when she was waking me up saying I miss her in bed with me.. She will think about coming back. Morning was crazy. Hard to get 2 kids out of the house. I got both kids ready go as I don't go into work until afternoon. Work late next 3 days.. Wife got dressed and I came from behind her and huged her and gave a peck on the neck. Said she looked beautiful and that I loved her. She asked if this was one of the dares. I said I don't think so but I mentioned I was going to express how I feel more.. Oddly enough it was part of dare day 29. So in a way I did do it.. As she was going and said byes she slipped me a peck on the cheek I guess since it was so quick as she was late kind of missed.  Either way it made me feel good.. Daughter missed bus as they were leaving and wife almost blew up. As you know she is so stressed. Imagine if I wasn't there. Maybe this is why she is working on us... Sinking in our problems are not as great as the consequences of me not being around much.. Joking yesterday she told me I could have the kids.. This was mainly cause it was very stressful.. Still it's going along pretty well. I just have to not push that much. Let her come to me. Though that is very hard when I see her..


----------



## dobo

Sounds like in general, your son needs to get to bed earlier. If you are like me, you allow the kids to stay up later than they should. For me, the excuse is that I don't get home until after 6 PM and if the little one didn't stay up, I'd never see her except to take her to the bus/sitter and to pick her up and eat dinner. But it really doesn't suit their needs. They need the sleep. And, your wife needs a break.

It *is* hard to get kids ready in the morning. Both my kids are independent -- the now 14 YO has been getting herself ready for school since 3rd grade I think, and when she was in 5th, she'd get ready, eat, and out to the bus before 6 (she went to a school 2 towns away and it took forever to get there.). The younger one is more difficult because she's a clothes freak and will change outfits several times before ever thinking about food of footwear... But anyway, please let your wife know she's not alone. We've missed the bus a number of times for lack of prep on our part.

Getting things ready the night before is always sound advice... but I wouldn't really know how it works out. ;-)

Your last 3 sentences are spot on.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the problems arise when he gets only 1 nap.. He took a nap from 11:30-1:30 and thats it. We put him to bed at 8pm. So I think that is early. Still it was tough on me. I cooked dinner and cleaned up. Then back to school night. Then I gave both kids a bath while she was starting her anxiety attack. She gave me a wink when I brought my son down after the bath. I think she appreciates my effort. Still I never know what I should be doing or not be doing. I am still struggling with that. I try to send her perk me up texts to help her feel better durring her day but I am not sure if that is good or not. I don't know I am so bad at this.


----------



## dobo

Don't worry about what you SHOULD be doing. There is no one right answer. So do what you feel is best in any given situation. Sometimes you will be wrong. You're human. You're not a mind-reader. If she has a need, encourage her to voice it. That's her job as a person in a relationship. Then the other person gets the choice as to whether they wish to fulfill the need or renegotiate or out and out say, "No, I cannot". Then it goes back to the 1st person to decide to either handle the need on their own or push the issue.


----------



## Loving Husband

I had an odd afternoon so far. Sent a nice text to wife. No response usually don't get one but I wanted her to smile. Then got to work and I had a panic attack out of no where. All scared. No reason though. Called wife and she said she didn't do anything i said its not cause of you but just nervous. She offered a zanax which I said no. I was just looking for a pick me up text and she said she isn't in any position to right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

LH: I wish that you would both see individual counselors. 

You wife has an inability to cope with stress. Perhaps the counselor can teach her techniques for coping. Also, anxiety and depression are like sisters. It's very common to have both. Zanax is only a temporary fixer. The fixing need to be done by her with help.

For you...the amount of stress that you are under. Work...making your wife/marriage work, and taking care of the family/kids/house is crazy stress. You need a place where you can vent. 

I would stress the individual more than the MC at this point.


----------



## dobo

Sweetie, you need to find support outside of your wife right now. We're here for that. 

Do something nice for yourself, too. Treat yourself. You've been working hard. You deserve it.


----------



## Loving Husband

Dobo you know I'm at work and your comment almost made me cry and I'm not the type to do it. I must be wound up tight
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

Ok. Time for a group hug for LH.

{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}


----------



## Loving Husband

I feel bad I told the wife I was having a panic attack cause it showed a really weak side of me. Even though I said it wasn't her. I would have continued the good work if I left her out of it. Hopefully when I get home I won't have taken a step back. I feel a little better after talking to her sister. She won't tell wife as she on the side of making It work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Xusan

You're a good man LH. This is new and dificult terrain to travel for all of us in these situations. We have to remember to keep on, and not beat ourselves up for missteps. Hang in there. We're all here to lend an ear when you need it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well got home and wife was a little out of it.. She got her monthly visitor and that doesn't usually mean any good. She even reminded me about it as I was tlaking to her.. The reason being is it usually ends up in bad arguments not normally made because of it. We discussed the family/money/job situation and possible options. After that she started to get tired. I asked if she was going to come upstairs to bed and she said she still doesn't feel right. I said thats fine. I would like someday for her to come up but thats not yet obviously. Now another zanax and sleep again. I also discussed possibly going away together and she said no not now. I have had suggestions from family members about possibly going away might help us. She said that all our problems will still be here when we return but at elast we could work on us without distractions. Well thats not going to happen either right now. So the holding pattern continues. She even mentioned the sex was awkward. Yes the first was but I think the 2nd was better. Thats when she remineded me again about her monthly visitor which like I said means nothing but grumpy comes out of her mouth..


Need to change how I phrased something. It's not the sex was awkward. She did say it was good just didn't feel right.


----------



## Loving Husband

This morning was fine. I am convinced in order for her to move forward I think she needs some time away to clear her head. Away from the kids and the house. The responsibilities. I know what happened yesterday. She came home and cooked dinner and left everything else. I have a pile of dishes in the sink to do. She said she was sorry about leaving them. Still glad I gave kids bath on Tue. My next available time is Sat.. It seems what ever affection I want to give besides kissing on lips I can do. I am able to hold her from behind and kiss her neck. Told her this moring she is the glue to this family and she said to me the glue is defective. I am guessing this is how she views herself right now. This is only going to get tougher. Her sister is good motivation for me... Says give her time and space and she will come around. I wonder what would happen if I left for a week.. Not move out just left. I think she would lose it. I can not see her geting both kids out daily without me. She has yet to do that. I have but she hasn't. That might make her more mad at me though and I am getting closer.


----------



## Corpuswife

LH: I don't know about you leaving her with kids for a week. I think your kids might suffer a bit. She really need some help. 


I don't know...if you want to give her a break...then take the kids somewhere else. 

She has the lack of feelings...so classic to depression. She can't feel anything but hopeless and selfish. I've been there. I NEVER want to go back.


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpus I understand and that's where the "it doesnt feel right" comment she made about us and being intimate. It's not that it was bad but because she isn't ready to commit to this relationship fully it's giving her doubts. Yet when we talk in general it's only about doing things together. Nothing about divorce has come up.. She is really fighting leaving even for a short time and it has nothing to do with losing custody of the kids. It has more to do with herself facing her problems.. We just seem so stuck right now.. She doesn't go backwards and fighting moving forward. I gave her a peck on the cheek last night and she seemed to like that. It might be time for me to stop doing anything affectionate for a while to get her thinking. I might be prolonging her recover. I don't know..

Edit: BTW the beer is starting again daily. Even if its only 1 or more it's still picking up again.. Don't know how to approach it. From the past she uses it to escape from reality and I know right now that's what she wants to do. Lots of pressure and most isn't from me but life in general.


----------



## dobo

You can't leave for a week... Not for her, not for you. Not now, anyway. It'd send the wrong message. It'd seem like abandonment.

You have to get off her back about getting away. And did you look into a spa?

She also needs to get back on meds, and weight be damned. It will balance out after a while, anyway. She just has to give it time. There are meds that don't increase apetite, too. Do some research on your own. She needs help to get out of this dark hole.


----------



## Loving Husband

dobo said:


> You can't leave for a week... Not for her, not for you. Not now, anyway. It'd send the wrong message. It'd seem like abandonment.
> 
> You have to get off her back about getting away. And did you look into a spa?
> 
> She also needs to get back on meds, and weight be damned. It will balance out after a while, anyway. She just has to give it time. There are meds that don't increase apetite, too. Do some research on your own. She needs help to get out of this dark hole.


Ok so leaving isn't an option and obviously selling house is not an option either. Yes I looked into the spa but she is against it. Like most things she tells me she doesn't want to spend the money now and I would HATE to pay for it and her not use it.. Last time we did this I got her a gift certificate to a spa and not sure if she ever used it.. 

Dobo I have tried but this dark hole is deep. I want to help but everything I suggest falls by the way side. She has forever been known for having great intentions but almost never follows through. Like the halloween night. She still hasn't ordered the costumes or the past summer she wanted to do something with our daughter and nothing. The weight on me is so great.. How is she supposed to think with the crazy life we lead and somebody always here talking to her??


----------



## dobo

I think you need to put your foot down on her getting back to a psychiatrist and to deal with her depression. She has no choice. If she won't do it, nothing will improve and things MUST improve. The children require it.

This is one area you can't compromise on.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well I don't think I will do it the week of her visitor. Funny thing when I was tlaking to her last night she was saying a lot of negative things and then stopped and asked me to remember what time of the month it was. This was her signal to me to not listen basically to everything she says. This first started end of July and Where she got it the day before I was to have a pool party and we were going to have a nice weekend together. I think it all hit the fan and this started the process of where we are now.. I will push for the psychiatrist next week. I have reminded her in the past about her medical coverage on it but I ever got an answer as to what they cover. This is another area I have to tread lightly.. It's where I am telling her she is broke and in the past that has not gone over well. IE printing out the Passive-aggressive papers.. The best way is for her to have time to think with no stress.. This is the hard part.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well with the little step back I am treading lightly now with the help of her sister. I didn't contact her all day and came home late. She was going to sleep when I came home.. I gave her a peck on the cheek and she went to bed. I went a little later. The morning came and she only had to get daughter out door. I came down and wrapped my arms around from behind again and gave her a kiss on the neck. Asked if she was ok. Of course her period is bothering her. Complaining about how much it is and the pains. She said good by to son and me and left. I probably won't see her much or talk to her. Today is day 31.. Tomorrow is the Day 32 which is sex but given the situation I won't be able to do it. I might ask her for a rain check.. Hopefully next week I can talk to her about seeing somebody. Still don't know how to approach it.


----------



## valium

I really do not know what to say to you but you are giving her the space she needs by the sound of it. Hopefully things will get better but only time can tell.

Thinking of you.


----------



## dobo

I'm impressed that she recognizes that during certain times she's overwhelmed by her hormones and that she's not clear because of it. A lot of people don't! 

You know, she's not broken. She has a chemical imbalance. It isn't her fault. She didn't choose it. But it can be helped with medication. If the fridge needed new coolant because it wasn't holding temp, she'd want that looked at, right? If a hose was leaking in her car, she'd want it repaired. So why not repair the body when it is having a problem?


----------



## Loving Husband

Well it gets back to where I called her the glue of this marriage and she then told me the glue is defective. 

Dobo: yes your logic makes sense but if she puts herself LAST then those issues or problems maybe are not important enough to look into. I also don't think she thinks repair of herself is by chemical. It's like she is trying to fix herself on her own. She told me so many things that say she wants to improve but like I said in the past it doesn't happen... She told me about using the Wii fit more. It happened 1 day. She told me about giving the kids a bath. It happened 1 time. She told me about brushing our son's teeth it happened a few times. She mentioned in the future about the family going bike riding. That won't follow through. She mentioned about seeing a psychiatrist and unless I do all the work it won't happen. I do not know where bottom is for her.. Do you get my point?? So even if she is broken and needs to be fixed she doesn't follow through. 

As for the hormones. She has been living this way for a while and I guess enough of a pattern to see it..

She just called me to discuss my hours and days and babysiting arrangements. Next few weeks since now my days off are going to rotate. Nothing major. Asked aobut my weekend hours cause she is looking for my help to close the pool. I won't be around much though. Next weekend I go camping with daughter for a few days.


----------



## dobo

Listen, so do the work about a psychiatrist. Do this work. It is probably the most important work you can do. 

Have fun w/your daughter.


----------



## Loving Husband

dobo said:


> Listen, so do the work about a psychiatrist. Do this work. It is probably the most important work you can do.
> 
> Have fun w/your daughter.


This is a very touchy road. It's the road where I am telling her she is broke again and needs help.. I was already scolded for that. So how do I do this in a loving way without her getting defensive??


----------



## JackStack

Loving Husband said:


> This is a very touchy road. It's the road where I am telling her she is broke again and needs help.. I was already scolded for that. So how do I do this in a loving way without her getting defensive??


What do you mean boken again?? She was never fixed. Just remember that sometimes when things get a little better, it is human nature to not want to rock the boat. It is now your wife needs you and while you know this will cause aggrivation, hurt and pain, you need to be aware that the alternative is to stay with the status quo and your life (and hers and kiddies) will remain as is. We all deserve better than that.


----------



## dobo

She is broken. She even said so herself.


----------



## Corpuswife

If she had cancer and refused treatment what would you do? You talk to her about, you'd beg, you'd find the best damn specialist that you could find, etc!!

Tell her you love her...tell her you want her "whole" for herself and for her family. Tell her you will support her as much as humanly possible (you already proven that). Tell her you will help find a reputable doctor. Tell her that YOU feel like a failure that you can't even get your wife help when she so desperately needs it. 

So what if she gets her defensive. She is being selfish. I understand that (been there). I know she is sensitive. I know you don't want to upset her. I know you don't want to go backwards. 

The fact is you will gain a little momentum with all you do (Love Dare) but YOU cannot move forward in your marriage without HER HELP! She needs meds and counseling. Depression isn't always forever. This may be a temporary thing for her or not. The meds aren't perfect. There are different types and different milligrams. The fact that her periods are awful is an indicator that they are worsening her depressive symptoms. 

I can't tell you how many people have tried antidepressants. Many may say how they "hate them or would never want to try them again." The fact is you have to work with the different type and different milligrams. Every body is so different. They get one pill and it doesn't work in a week...it's adios (takes up to 4 weeks). Don't let her give up because she's tried it before. 

Counseling needs to be a part of her program as well. She needs to learn coping skills. 

As a father and husband, because you love your wife and family...it's time to put your foot down. Do it lovingly...be kind but do it.


----------



## Loving Husband

Jack the broke again statement came from me telling her about the passive-aggressive. I was telling her she was broke and how to fix it.. It was wrong of me.. So if I sit down with her about the depression I am afraid it will come off the same way. Dobo I know she's broke and she knows she's broke. The defective glue comment said that. 

Corpus since you know what she is going through your input is very valuable. I will try next week in a non confronting way. The way I do the dares with her. She seems to like it. I will try to talk to her about seeing somebody. She has been on anti-depressants 2 times now and both had horrible effects. Not that they didn't work but they didn't work the way they should have. Again it was her GP that prescribed them. What scares me is the beer is coming back again. Starting slow. 12 packs and 1 or 2 a night. Still makes me think she is trying to "escape" life again. That is more of the reason for her drinking.. Her smoking has picked up and I discussed helping her quit that. If I didn't say before we both smoked in the first 6 years of marriage. We agreed when we had kids to quit. We both did for the first but after birth she went back. I quit for good. She smoked during the second pregnancy. I was not happy. I have too many issues to help with.


As for the day. I am continuing to give the wife space. No texts. no calls unless she makes it. I worked late and came home. Went upstairs and watched a movie before bed. This morning woke up brought son down.. Made coffee brought it to her and gave her a peck on the cheek. I then went into office. Son got wifes coffee and made mess. wife flipped. I cleaned it up.. Said she was sorry to me.. I am seeing if the space helps a bit. Hoping the bitterness fades..

Edit: This confusion about what to do around her continues. On Sat-Mon this past week I was on her like a couple would be. Having sex 2 times and talking about future. Then Tue and her anxiety kicked in and I backed off. Just with little reminders I am here.. Like the hugs and pecks. So I am sort of distant right now and it feels odd like I am trying to avoid her. Though I am not just trying to give her space. I am going to struggle with this until I get a clear sign of what she wants. If I give her space will she have the strength or courage to find me??


----------



## Corpuswife

I can tell what she wants. She wants a reason to be feeling this way. Any reason would do. For now it's you/marriage and your youngest (stressful) and a job. The fact is depression hits you to the core. You don't really feel emotions in the normal way. EAch person is "hit" with depressive symptoms in a differnent way but there are many similarities. 

I think you are right to approach her in the way you have with the LOVE DARES. You know your wife best. IN the meantime...make some calls. Get a few referrals for a counselor or psychologist. A psychiatrist can RX meds (he's an MD) but the majority do NO counseling at all. More than likely a psychologist may be the way to go in pointing the direction to a good psychiatrist for RX management or a good GP for RX management. 

Since she's tried anti-depres. before....did she not like the side effects or where they too strong for her? She needs to share those things with the RXing doctor. She may be sensitive. 

Let's say she can't take meds. OK. There are other ways to help combat depression but she has to take an active part and it's not easy when you can barely get out of bed in the morning. Of course exercise and diet are important. I am willing to be she does no exercise and her diet isn't great. Plus drinking...not good of course. There is meditation or yoga which is good for the soul. What does she want out of life? 

Part of what helped me feel better was the seach for myself. Finding what mattered to me. Instead of jumping through the hoops and doing things for everyone else. 

Just some ideas.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well corpus you sound like her in the sense of trying to please others first. She told me that and nobody appreciated her for it. That's I think cause in her head she thought she was. Still I sent her a text to remind her of the Halloween costumes to order them and she said she will tonight. I asked her how's she was doing since I left her all rattled from the commotion going on with kids and she said she just needed to relax. Then asked her if she's been drinking. She asked why and I said you sound a lot more relaxed. She 
said she was. I said I was concerned about the drinking. She also said she was working on the pool and pruning. Glad she is outside 
but drinking only way to see her normal. That really worries me. 

She does not exercise at all but wants to. Her eating habits are horrible and I get on her about it. Hygene has been issue with showers. Only twice a week on norm. Doesn't sleep enough. I could continue the list. Not trying to beat her up just giving facts. Her meds in the past were to strong. Her GP is a horrible doctor. I am trying to get her to see a better one. Closer to home. She is an hour away. All I want is to see her have some life and appreciate what she has with our family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Not good when I came home. Wife was so stressed. She can't get away from it.. Kids going crazy after I got home and she was drinking alot according to MIL.. She tells me she is so miserable. All i keep asking her was how I can help and she just cries. She is in a very dark place. Tells me the sex had no feeling and she feels bad about it. Now this could be the anger talking or the beer or the depression or whatever. I know she had something that night. Now we are back to square one. I talked to her about seeing somebody she is ok with that but refuses to get on any drugs cause of what happened last time. Her mom got so upset with her cause after the pool she sat and did nothing while her mom did the work around the house. I gave the kids a bath when I came home while she sat outside crying in her car. I tried again to help her destress by asking her to leave and stay at her moms which I know I shouldn't push so much but she has to get away from this house. She still feels like everybody is on top of her. Yet I don't see how her life is any worse off then most families of 4.. We both work and take care of the kids. If anything she has it better.. As I pick up a lot of the slack.. I will still push for the couselor but I see her biggest problem is she thinks running is the answer and she is getting no support from anybody. I told her if everybody is telling you not to run what does that tell you?? They all wrong?? Then she would be like I don't care what they think.. There is no way love, compassion,forgivness will happen if sll she does is stay miserable. She said in the cry crying she is tired of being miserable. I said if thats the case then do something about it. Start making some positive moves forward. You can't have love if your siting in misery.. It won't happen. Like with Fireproof. If a women is bitter no love can happen until that goes away. Well day 33 tomorrow. Good for me..


----------



## Corpuswife

Make some calls to a counselor. Ask around at work or friends or family. If you can't find one...ask a trusted doctor. 

If her GP isn't good...get a new one. You will have to do the legwork for her. Have the numbers and names handy. 

Once she gets into a good counselor....she may change her mind on the meds. afterwhile.

I was such a people pleaser and total MOM! I left myself out of the equation for most of my adult life. I am still a great MOM but I allow myself to be first sometimes. 

I believe my H has depression...he drinks to cope. Not good as you know. 

I understand and commend you for hanging in there.


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpus thats great you were a total mom.. She's not even that. Her kids mean everything but refuse to do anything. I think what hurts the most is how hard I am trying and how many shots she throws my way. The book has helped me talk to her in a more loving way. The phrase "How can I help you" I used a lot outside with her. It is what I feel helped her cry outside. The bitternes about us not getting better I think had more to do with that time of month. The beer and the fact our neighbor behind us died. He was in his 40's and a really bad drinker. Lived alone. Didn't take care of himself. Looked like he was in his 60's. I am sure that played a part. We were not close to him but we did talk a bit. 

This last setback has me feeling like I need to give up.. I am so hurt and drained. Like when ou start a big project and feel like your half way done and then told you have to start over. How much effort you have left?? I guess the cold shots about not feeling anything with sex still stings.. Even though I know it's not 100% true.. Just hurts though.

Her sister talked to her a little last night but that was before she got bad. Her mother was very upset at her getting tired of being called a baysitter by my wife. She is only there to help and my wife doesn't appreciate it. I still don't see how our life is so different then others. I compared it to her sisters life and she said why do people always compare there lives to others. I said to show its common. What we are going through everybody does.. I asked about the neighbors. I said If we worked same hours and days tell me how much alone time do you think they get?? They are together as a family outside of work 7 days a week. They see each other more then we do.. The wife has even more pressure then you do.. How is she not being baby sat?? She doesn't answer on those cause its true. She just can't handle any stress or pressure.


----------



## Corpuswife

LH: It's hard to give, give, give and not receive. I'd understand why you are exhausted. In your situation, it's physically and emotionally exhausting.

How long has your wife been depressed?


----------



## Loving Husband

she has been for at least 5 years I would say. Thats how long anxiety pills been involved and about 3 years after daughter she was on meds.


----------



## Loving Husband

Her sister a while back said she was planing on having a heart to heart talk to her. Not just the loving kind but a gut check one. More or less a reality one. She said she might be very mad for a few days but she will hopefully see a lot clearer. Her sister is my age and her life is a lot harder. She works 10 hours a day and 2 kids and a husband who is on social security no and does little to help due to bad back. While she makes good money they have no assets and are stuck. Ao I think she is going to try and help her appreciate what she has. Yet the kids gloves are coming off. Hopefully she will help wake her up as her sister says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Another odd comment today my mil made. She said as they were closimg the pool that the wife was disappointed that the pool wasn't used much and they talked about how next year my son will be a year older and using swimmies and won't require being held as much. This goes in line with her wanting to paint our bed and bath this winter on layoff. For somebody who wants out they are thinjunk of the future together. Just find it odd
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

I know mixed messages. We hang on every one of their words! 

I wish life didn't have to be so hard.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well I was told that she needed food cause didn't cook again. So I left early to come home and bring food. She was SO STRESSED. Didn't want to handle kids. Drinking again today. I talked a little when I got hom and she got so anxious. She couldn't sit still. Just kept moving her legs. She doesn't look to goo either. Te lack of food is catching up.. What I don't understand is if your ok with leaving shouldn't you be happier and more positive?? The longer she fights this the worse she gets.. What does that say?? I think its her body saying she should't be doing this and this is what we see. I am concerned.. The lack of food with more beer and more smoking.. Lack of sleeping.. So I asked her where we stand. She said I don't know how I feel. That explains the sex issue. She said it was like she had sex with a stranger. So it's all adding up.. I hope this weekend with just our son will help her..


----------



## knortoh

LH I am worried about you -

Is there a point where you can protect yourself here? 

I read what you are going through and I just can feel your hopes get up - then they are deflated, then you are exhausted....

is there someone looking out for you?
do you ever have a day/night off?


----------



## Loving Husband

Knortoh- Looking out?? Sure a few people are. Helping out?? Her mom. my MIL is a HUGE help.. Without her I would have more on my plate. Her sister is giving me strength to continue. She tells me to please don't give up. She knows what's at stake more then my wife does.. Do I get a night off?? I get a few hours off.. Like MOnday night football. I leave arounf 7:45 and come home a little after 10. If I get of early on Sunday I might try to catch a footbal game but each time I did I was called to come home cause they needed something. This week I am working7 days in a row so I can have off this weekend to go camping. That will be my time off.. 2 days of relaxing.. 

Last night after she calmed a bit she told me just needed a night off from the stress. So I gave it to her. I went upstairs afteer young one went to bed and tried to go to sleep. I came down and said good night. I went to give her a kiss on the cheek and she was going to kiss me on my lips. Stupid me stopped. I pulled back and said that you were going to kiss me. She said yeah out of habit. I said no its cause you felt it.. She didn't deny it and told me to go to bed. I asked if I could give her a peck on the cheek she said yes but when I went to do it she lauhed and said go to bed. Now obviously the beer has some effect but thats proof she continues to feel something she is fighting. I hope the time I am away helps. She is stressing the body worse by fighting it..

EDIT: BTW I did talk about meds and seeing somebody again. She will consider it. She doesn't think she needs them but I said if you have a chamical imbalance you will need them. You can't use beer to escape. That's telling me you have a problem there. So hopefuly I can continue to work on this. She said she will also look at the love dare book. Not do the dares but read through it. I am trying to give her some positive areas to look at in life. Maybe then we can turn this around. It preaches a lot on forgivness and compassion. I am running out of ideas to help her feel good..


----------



## dobo

Don't listen to her when she's drunk and stressed. 

I do wonder why she's trying to kill herself though. It may not look like it, it may look like hanging on, but she's trying to kill herself by not taking care of herself. She's likely going to need hospitalization before you're through if she doesnt' turn things around. Just a warning. But that may be what it takes. You may have to stop propping her up and let her hit rock bottom.


----------



## Corpuswife

I am glad you mentioned the subject of meds and counseling.

Start asking around about counselors and a good GP doctor for med. management. If you are close to any women at work or friends mention that you are looking for a good GP or counselor (whichever you feel comfortable mentioning). 

If you can't find one that way...call some counselors around town. They will talk to you over the phone and you can get an idea. 

I know this is wearing.


----------



## Loving Husband

We'll this morning was odd another 180. She was sick and said she had a fever. She kept telling me that she wanted me to stay home with her but didn't know why. So I came over and held her for a while. Told her I was her for her and loved her. Said I couldn't stay home but will come home after work and spend time together. Was originally going to go back to my moms empty house before football since it was in same town. Now ill see if this is progress today when I get home.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Harvard

it's real difficult to know what is real and what is fake when a person is under the influence. Therapy sessions sound in order here and a lot of people lives are being affected by all of this. I wouldn't hesitate getting therapy for a minute. As always good luck


----------



## Loving Husband

Dobo: Yes I know and I am woried as I tell her often. That this isn't the way to handle life. This is how I brought up seeing somebody again and meds. I am very afraid of the drinking again. Not good for our kids to see. She is angry.. Drinking.. SMoking.. Doesn't eat well.. All the things our daughter is picking up on. She doesn't eat a lot but that could be normal for an 8 year old..


Today the wife was in bad shape. She got her car inspected for the first time ever..  I usually did it.. She didn't even get ready and asked me to pick milk up.. Daughter from school and her cigs.. So I did that. Came home and my wife was on couch.. I left her alone and noticed my daughters new bike was here. I set it up for her. Finished it and came in and fed son. Made dinner for our daughter and wife.. Cleaned the dishes.. I also gave the wife some flu medicine. After I finished dinner went into office to relax a bit. Going out to see monday night football.. She came in and sat on my lap and hugged me.. I gave her a few kisses on the neck and then our son got jealous and pulled us apart. Still this is baby steps again.. I am playing it cool this time and giving her space after every close encounter we have..


----------



## knortoh

LH

I tend to agree with everyone here -

she needs some professional help and so do you -

I am still worried you are going to crash one day

and I am worried that you are doing yourself damage.

a good friend of mine nursed his wife through Post Natal Depression and although he seemed to be okay at the time has ended up with post-traumatic stress syndrome

when people drink as yur wife is she is 'self medicating' pretty dangerous activity.


----------



## Loving Husband

Knortoh: I'll survive.. I have a strong heart and mind.. That doesn't know how to quit.. I vent a lot here and it helps... The only other place I really vent is her sister but thats via text. I understand the drinking is bad but what can I do?? I already mentioned its not good and its not like I can stop her.. She will then sneak it.. As Dobo says she needs to fall. Though I have a hard time with completely falling.

Well after a nice relaxing night at the bar I came home and brought her a shake. Gave her more flu meds and basically went to bed. She said she was going to come upstairs with me. Was nice to fall asleep holding her. She seemed to want to.. She got up at 5 to see if she was going to try and go to work but came back. she just wrapped her arms and legs around me as I rubbed her back. It was nice to have that closeness. I had to get up 30 minutes later so I just sat with her. This feels like real progress. Now the test. See if it builds and she continues to stay in bed and get closer or do we take a step backwards.


----------



## valium

I really have no idea how you are coping with this as I know that I could not do it and you must be so strong to go through this with her and love her so much.

I am thinking of you.


----------



## Loving Husband

I have a very deep love for her and no desire to me with anther womem as long as she wants me here. My kids also give me support by seeing them daily. Plus the support of her family helps. That with very strong beliefs in marriage. My faults are letting circumstance effect my feelings for her. Hence the love dare
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

The slow progress keeps going. We are recementing our relationship. Though I am running out of steam physically.. I work on my feet and on cement everyday for a major home improvement store. I lift a lot of ceramic tile and yesterday was my 7th day in a row. I came home after work and wife still sick.. I cut the grass and then came in made dinner ran the dishwasher and gave the kids a bath. Finally 8pm rolls around and I am able to relax. We put kids to bed and then watch TV till about 11PM. A few more signs of improvement. She personalized my phone number with OUR wedding song. I think that shows her heart is coming back. Since its an emotional song and she wants to hear it.. The other thing is she found out I have a FB account. I don't really use it.. She tagged me for some unknown reason. No clue what that means. I don't plan on getting involved. She told me make sure you don't put single the girls will flock to you. I don't care about that. She asked if it was ok to sleep up stairs again and I told her its your bed to your welcome to it any time. Last night we were both out of it. I don't think either one of us moved. She was very achy and I gave her a small back rub before we went to sleep. Woke up and got daughter out for school and I am home today. She seems to be a lot more intentive to my looks or actions. I feel another sign of getting connected again. I gave her a hug from behind and kiss on neck while she was getting ready. Still though no hug or kiss goodbye but I am not pushing it. She looks like she wants too but hasn't made the move. She will have to as I will not push it. My goal is to kill her with kindness. This weekend is key. She will be alone except for son. I hope she reads the love dare and misses me a bit..


----------



## dobo

Use FB to leave her cute notes.


----------



## Loving Husband

dobo said:


> Use FB to leave her cute notes.


Funny thing about the little notes. Yesterday at work I sent her the first chores to our wedding song and that night she was putting it as her ringtone for me.. Coincidence?
Maybe.. 

This is a bit ironic though. In the movie fireproof when she started to come around the scene was where she stayed home sick and she watched him through out the day go around helping her. Bringing food and medcine.. Thats what I did past 2 days. Now I might be pushing it here but after that she got closer to me. Still reserve I guess seeing if its real. The first sign was sunday night when she went to kiss me good night.. I might call out tomorrow and have a 5 day weekend. I really need the rest...


----------



## dobo

DO take care of yourself. I'm glad that you are recognizing the signs that you need to rest.


----------



## Loving Husband

You know I try to do some cute things but not always work.. I went food shopping decided to buy a few roses and leave them in her care. Well I have a Formula firebird as my fun car decided to take it today.. Well it doesn't work well hiding the loud exhaust. She text me you know you can't sneak in here with that car.. I laughed and said I tried.. She thanked me for the roses and asked what they were for.. I just wanted to surprise her..


----------



## Harvard

Cool! that sounds like healthy fun between spouses...FAST CARS!! Love them, got a modifed mustang myself.


----------



## Loving Husband

Yeah its slightly worked but it runs low 13s now and plan on working it more. Its 12 years old and under 40k miles. My daughter loves it cause it goes fast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Xusan

It's wonderful that you're sharing a bed again! It looks like you're having some beautiful moments. I think it's a very positive sign that she used your song as a special ringtone for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

You are on a very slow train but you are STILL moving forward! 

At least, that is how I picture your progress. 

Keep chugging along.

Glad you are getting rest. I commend your commitment. If only everyone had this kind of attitude.


----------



## Loving Husband

Thanks all for the positive comments. It is very HARD on me..


Yes it is very positive but the heart also yerns.. I know I shouldn't dwell on the little things bt the lack of a goodbye kiss and hug still gets to me.. I don't push it.. I let her lead but inside I feel it.. 



Last night pretty much the norm.. She came home and I made dinner and cleaned it up. Eating she was looking at a Khols catalog and pointed out some bedroom sheet sets she liked and thought about getting them.. Nice to still see future thinking. As I was making dinner her phone got a text. I made a comment and it was the one guy thats in CA.. She is friends with him. I have snooped a little to verify and it's only fun comments back and forth. They talk about our marriage at times and his life so I know theres nothing going on.. Any way she makes a comment to me that I thought you said somebody 3000 miles away isn't a threat. I said I know. It's fine.. As time goes by my phone goes nuts. 3 text messages come right in a row. Then an email.. She looks at me and says so theres your girlfriends text you now.. I said no.. It's emails too.. Makes same sound. I have Blackberry.. Yet the fact she got a little jealous is big. Just a month ago she told me I could be with whoever I wanted. I know the anger not really feeling that way.. Still shows she is getting attached again.. BTW the texts was from HER sister. To keep me going. We text a lot to each other... As the night went on we watched TV together and NO FB... I was a bit suprised. She slept again upstairs. Maybe she is finally staying in bed with me??Tonight is the last night I will be here.. As I am going to be gone fri-sun. I gave her a goodnight kiss on cheek and went up stairs. She came to bed and I spooned her till we fell asleep. In the morning got kids up and ready. She was upset cause nothing fit her right. So I discussed walking together and she made an excuse about not the time to do it cause she is geting over being sick. I said no next week we could. So I hugged her from behind and said you'll always be beautiful to me.. She doesn't take those comments well cause for one I didn't do that in the past and of course she doesn't view herself that way.. Still as I said before just said bye and left. I am not the most patient man when it comes to progress. I have been told when I get an inch I take a yard. You know how hard this is for me to not push harder?? Yet I tell myself to hold back.. It seems to work. Here's to another good day hopefully.

EDIT: BTW I think she is testing me on some of the things she had a problem with me to see my reaction.. We were watching TV and she said I am thinking about dying my hair red. She waited and I said thats cool.. Go ahead. She looked at me and said no I'm not going to do it just wanted to kknow what you thought. I said you can do whatever you want I only request you don't cut your hair short.. I also let her know I liked what our babysitter did which was have blonde streaks in her hair. Not taht she had to do it but I liked it.. Wonder if she will try it for me.. She has in the past when I suggested something done it..


----------



## valium

You are making good progress but remember Rome was not built overnight. It does take time for things to get better and the better it gets the more relaxed she will be. From experience when the other half starts doing something unusual constantly if it keeps going we do get suspicious and I have been there when my h had an affair. you said you liked the babysitters hair but I would not tell her these things as it may put ideas in her head.

My thoughs are with you anyway.


----------



## Loving Husband

valium said:


> You are making good progress but remember Rome was not built overnight. It does take time for things to get better and the better it gets the more relaxed she will be. From experience when the other half starts doing something unusual constantly if it keeps going we do get suspicious and I have been there when my h had an affair. you said you liked the babysitters hair but I would not tell her these things as it may put ideas in her head.
> 
> My thoughs are with you anyway.


Thanks for the input. I oly mentioned the hair cause in the past we tried to do it for her. A self kit and it didn't work. We pulled too much hair through. I told her if she wanted to get it professionally done I don't mind. She knows i wouldn't be interested in the baby sitter though.. She isnt my type and she is engaged.. She knows I made a comment cause I liked her hair only.


----------



## Loving Husband

Wife got daughter and came home. Made a nice dinner. last one for a few days. She is starting to be a bit playful again with little love taps to the stomach and she even hit me on the head with the remote. Not really hard but I made a comment. She was like I am getting ready for future hits on the head with a frying pan. Any way we playfully discussed the next 2 days. I said now you be a good girl.. She said you mean I have to?? in a playful voice. I said yeah.. So I can't have a bocinali (sp) event? said no.. She asked why the questions. I said I am just concerned. She paused and said your really that concerned and then I played it off and said no I;m not. Mean while my pone is oing off like texts coming in. She turned and looked at me. I joked and said I told my girlfriend not to text until after 11.. I smiled and went to look at my phone which was a spam mail.. As the night wore on her cold started to get worse and she went upstairs to bed. She said good night but I later went up and gave her a kiss on the cheek. I am up now for a bit.. Everything is progressing except her affections towards me. Future planing. Joking around. A little jealousy on both sides. We sit and talk and get along.. I just wonder how to play off the next step. Do I sit and wait for her to eventually want to touch me and hold me?? I know a few weeks ago she made the move and she said afterwards it might have set her back a bit cause she didn't get the feelings she was looking for. Maybe she is afraid now until she is sure.. I don't understand women.


----------



## Corpuswife

You are making significant progress. It's just now that you are...you want to jump right in!! It's because you have been ready. She not quite there. 

Coming back to the bedroom is significant. Playing around is significant as well. It's actually good that you are leaving on a good note. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.


----------



## knortoh

Take it easy. 

Patience you have loads. I honestly wish that I would have been more patient with my H when he was here - but I waas way too strung out....

you know in your heart that you have to wait for her to come to you...

the whole thing about love freely given


----------



## Xusan

LH, I feel for you! I know waiting is excruciating. I know the little things are huge. You miss goodbye kisses. I miss hearing "I love you." It is soooo hard to wait, but you have done so. I know you can keep it up. The playfulness is HUGE! You are reconnecting!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well it got the best of me today. I don't think it was really bad cause I didn't make it a big deal but in the middle of the night I woke up. When I came back to bed in her sleep she grabbed my arm and wrapped it around her. Now she was sleeping.. I know its not the same but to me thats more of your true feelings. So she wakes me up. After we got our D ready for school she asked me whats wrong. I said it's nothing major. Then it came out. I mentioned about the wrapping of her arm around me a night and she said thats good so why you down. I said cause when your awake I see the wall come back up. She told me she doesn't know how she feels yet. I said I understand but I am seeing it coming out. She mentioned that she only came back to bed to get some good sleep but now it seems to be the norm. I just said I liked it and it is helping. I don't think it will stop. So I hugged her and said I am hoping that wall comes down to see these changes are permanent.. I moved her chin to look at me in the eyes and told her your my everything.. I am hoping this softens her up and allows it to continue to move forward. Still in the morning she was joking around about her free time. Trying to get a rise out of me about being home alone.. We also discussed about out finances and what I have been working on for the past few years then she brought up her job and the possibility of losing it. I said don't worry I have built up a nice little nest egg now. We are a lot better off then a few years ago.. So I went over the finances with her.. To try and ease her mind from that. Still like everything it's been one more thing that has gotten in the way of us...


I hate I let out about not getting the affection in return but it was bound to come out.. The stress was building. At least it was done controlled and it doesn't seem to have gone backwards. At least I am hoping.. This weekend will be a true test if we are moving forward at all.. I told her I will leave her alone to think. I also asked her to please make the effort to read the book and possibly watch the movie. I said it can only help. Still all in all it was good. She is very attentive on my moods and actions. Asking me when she thinks I am upset. She is studing me which is another sign of reconnection. She responds to texts immediately.. As she was leaving she I told her she looked nice and she asked what about it that made her look nice. I said just the combo of the cloths you put on I think it makes you look good.. Then she went to work..

EDIT: i was thinking of texting her that I was sorry I did that to her this morning. I didn't want to pressure her but just wanted to get point across.. Is this a good idea or should I just let it go?


----------



## dobo

Don't text her. Don't back pedal on your feelings. They are what they are. You shared them. No big deal. Leaning on one another is a part of marriage.

Also, I agree about not telling her what you like about another woman. 

Hey, wanted to tell you that I bought The Love Dare. I figure better to do it now while things are good with my husband than to wait. It can't hurt, ya know?


----------



## Loving Husband

Thanks Dobo.. I was so close to sending her a text that I was sorry I pressured her. I even had it typed out then I disgarded it. I understand about the other women just hard not to put foot in mouth. She didn't get upset so I brush that off. That's great you got the book. In the beginning it feels like you are going through the motions but when you get into the 20's and 30's it really gets tough.. Mine was day 27. I feel it was the start of my wife seeing a change. This is a HUGE weekend. I plan on only texting her if she texts me first. She wants to know when I get there and when I am coiming home for things like dinner. She said she plans on being home all weekend with our son. I leave in a few hours and won't be able to read PM.. So I'll try and communicate thorugh my blackberry..


----------



## dobo

Have an awesome weekend. I hope your wife does, too.

I still have a lot to learn about what love looks like even though I'm very familiar with what it doesn't look like. Maybe I can experience some growth with this. I'm not a believer in unconditional love because that's an opening to doormatsville. But I could definitely stand to learn to be closer to unconditional than not with this fella' that I've got since he's such a loving person to begin with.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well wife came home to take over watching son so I could leave. I went over a few things with ghw house and pets like what I did. I then say her down and said have a relaxing time. Mentiomed a few things about us. Joked around about being good again and then she said make sure you don't meet some youmg chicky. I said to her your the only chicky for me. Was nice to see her worried a bit but then she remembered I have my daughter and she saif she would rat me out. She also mentioned that she wil be without her heater. Meaning me in bed. I am very warm. Still all good things. I can feel we are close.she sent me a nice text wishink me well and to stay safe and warm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## knortoh

all good stuff LH -
love hearing the positive stuff really do


----------



## Loving Husband

Long Post!!

Well I am back!!! The weekend was wonderful my daughter but not for me. Let me explain. It was peaceful don't get me wrong but it made me upset.. Let me explain the days...

Friday we got there and as I posted my wife and I have a little contact and was more of our goodbyes.. Friday night we got settled in and took a trip to the store and the camp grounds. Then had a fire pit and talked. I basically listened to music. We went to to bed and my daughter and I slept in a pullout. The trailer is great. 2 bunk beds for the kids. A master bedroom with a swival TV. Stove/Microwave/Sink/Shower Basically all like home.. Slept like crap cause it was like sleeping on sofa cushions. They also had 2 boxers and man they are crazy.. Licking you like nuts.. My daughter kept inviting them in... 

Next morning was the big day. We ate breakfast and I played catch with kids. Football. Taught daughter to catch and throw. Got dressed for trick or treating inside the camp grounds. They had events for everything.. Later came back and played a game of kickball.. Made dinner and played more catch.. After dinner was a few night activities. We went on a haunted hayride. My daghter braved it. She was so scared and wimpered like a dog.. It was funny. I had to carry her half way through. Still well worth it. Afterwards we headed back to camp to sit by fire. This is where I slipped. Made a big mistake. I text her about 9pm saying this was so hard not talking to her. She never responded so I called. She was putting son down and we were pretty brief. Went over a little of what we did and got off phone. I sat around the campfire and observed the interaction of the families and it made me upset that this is what I want. I want to see my wife there enjoying everything with me. So I text her about it but she doesn't text back. then ask her if she got the text and no response. About an hour later I call her but shes on her cell talking. Now of course my head starts to run with it. She's on the phone with that guy from FB.. So I call an hour later it's like 11:30 and she's still on. Then I call the house line and she doesn't pick up.. Now I am upset and worried.. She can hear that.... So after a few more calls to both phones she picks up the house phone and tells me shes ok and she was on the phone with sister and mother.. Asked why was I calling and I said I got more and more nervous when nobody picked up. She was drinking also.. So after our brief talk at the end she says love you.. OMG!!! I calmly said I love you too and hung up.. Did she mean that or was it a combo of beer and her feelings coming around??? Either way I slept better that night.

Sunday morning came around... Woke up and sister and husband cooked breakfast together. Was once again nice to see a functional family. Wife texts me. WTF was that nlast night. All upset with my calling and doesn't mention anything about the love you comment.. I don't bring it up either. Told her I would be home early afternoon and she said I will talk to you more when you get home.. 3 hours later she is asking if I left yet. Hmmm why is she so concerned?? I ask her if she was mad and she said no not mad just upset at what happened.. She said once again I will talk to you when you get home.. Now I am thinking this is either good or bad. Told my sister you might be getting a call from me if its bad. . Well I get home and she said I owe you an apology. I said for what? She was like I kind of lied and she was on the phone with the guy from CA. I said why didn't you tell me? She said it was late and didn't want to get into it that late as I would have asked her questions. She would have been right.. So I came from behind and said sorry about calling her Sat night. I then asked if she watched move or read book. She gave me more excuses about book and said no she didn't but it was moved from where I put it... hmmmm.. As for the movie she said she thought about watching it together.. I was in heaven.. I said thats great. Her sister and family came over. We picked up pizza for everybody. She left and I gave kids a bath.. Put both to bed after 8 and took shower.. Watched the movie together. Held her hand and afterwards talked about the movie and us. Talked about the hurt and letting it go cause its not helping her or us.. Talked about our circumstances. I brought up the friends issues. She mentioned I have a problem with every guy friend. I said you have to understand when you talk to somebody 4-5 times a week thats a relationship more then a friendship. She said he's 3000 miles away. Not going to take red eye to come see me. I said no but in the movie she was having an emotional affair with the doctor. She never progressed further but it kept her heart from her husband. Even if this is friends it's the same thing. I don't mind friends but friends don't need to speak so much. She said she understands and will cut back. Nothing wrong with once or twice a week saying hi whats going on.. After the hugging and kissing we did she said she needs some more time to think. I work nights and said you have that time.. We went to bed and I made a move for sex. Yes we had a quickie. Not my favorites but I could tell she was internally excited.. So she wanted to.. Our sexual chemistry has always been there.. Afterwards I held her as we fell asleep. Was wonderful..

Next morning she wakes me up by kissing me!!!! Asks me to get daghter up and ready which I do.. Get kid sout the door and I get my well needed and wanted goodbye kiss. Said we would see each other later. About 10 minutes later she calls me asking if I got daughters lunch and I said I did when I got her up. She said she does sae just didn't know if I did also. I said up.. Asked if she was ok.. She said yeah that she would see me later. I said ok. Then she said I love you. I said it back then she said I did it again didn't I. I said yup. I guess your feeling it in a happy tone.. It said it's ok... Thats how we left it...

I might be able to move this to reconciliation soon. Either way I plan on staying here and helping others to continue to see how fragile relationships are and to keep the driving going for mine. Seeing all the struggles will make me apreciate what I have and never to lose it again. I am planing on finsihing love dare by middle of week and doing it again. I still need a tone more work to mkae these changes permanent.. I am thankful to all of you that have been there for me... My heart needed this.. I have to make up our 15 year anniversary. Once I know we are really ok I am thinking of renewing vows somewhere.. Just don't know where..


----------



## knortoh

LH this is so full of suspense and drama and love -


----------



## Loving Husband

you know why?? cause I can be such an idiot at times and I make it goes 2 steps forward and 1 step back all the time. I can't tell you how bad I am at this stuff. yet I am trying to help others. I should be banned from helping others.


----------



## knortoh

I disagree - you are not an idiot - NOT at all....
you are amazingly strong and single minded and clear and wise -
and you are HUMAN - your story is amazing - there are no perfect relationships only REAL ones - 
forwards, backwards - who can see the pattern while you are walking it? 
and I for one am always thankful for your advice


----------



## Loving Husband

Well we are far from out of woods. lots to take on her part still. The booze picking up again.. The depression.. Tied to that is the exercise she needs to help her feel better.. I need to be supportive without trying to order. it seems to be a fine line.. I want to keep nudging her along but don't want her to feel it too much.. I will continue to update my thread.. Just might not be as often...


----------



## Xusan

You did it! Wonderful LH. I hope the positive momentum you've created continues. Thank you for all the help you've given me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dobo

You handled things well and she's coming around. I'm glad to see it. Saturday night/Sunday could have been a disaster if handled less skillfully than you handled it.

Whew!!!

I'm glad you're going to hang around. There are a lot of ways relationships can go wrong and not too many places to help people get their stuff back together. Your story and your experience is very valuable to a lot of people.


----------



## Corpuswife

You aren't out of the woods but man you are on the right trail! haha

Your wife has alot of work to do LH. You already know that and have provided a firm foundation for her. Hopefullly she will grab the reins for herself.

I am also glad that you will stick around. That is why we don't have reconciliation stories (much)...people start getting better and leave! Hey! Throw us a bone would ya...


----------



## Loving Husband

I forgot about a little thing she did that tipped her off to coming back. When she was outside talking to me she got cold and said she needed to get changed. She came down wearing one of our shirts that said mike and Patti. Didn't put it together that was her symbolizing we were back. I haven't seen that shirt in a while. 

Thanks for all the well wishes I will continue to work at this. One guy at work already noticed my changes and that means my wife must. I hope she did and wants to do dare also
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Loving Husband

Well this week stinks. I work till 11pm and she has to get up at 5am to go to work. When I got home she was on FB and we were talking about our future plans and I did my love dare for her. Last few days of it.. We had some drinks together. As the night went on she discussed FB and what she does.. One of the guys she talks to sent her a chat. She left it up and they only talked a few minutes. At the end he sent a flower and said good night sweety. She said I was afraid how you would take that. I said you know the line that is too much and I don't care about those things. It's fine to have fun. I said don't you think I call the girls at work Hun?? I said you have to be you... This is why I don't want to be your friend. In fact I blocked her..  She was jokingly mad at me. I said you need your outlet. A place where you can vent without repercussions. She seemed happy I said that. So then she signed onto my FB account and looked around. I said I don't do FB. I only have the account from 2 years ago somebody invited me. She said your boring. I said well I don't use it..  Any way she took a look at my ex-girlfriends and one that has an album up she thumbed through.. She looked like she let herself go.. Not good pictures. Well the rest of the might we spent joking and reconnecting. It was so nice to bond again with her. Kissing and holding each other.. We talked about our 15 year anniversary and I said I wanted to make it up.. I asked if she would renew our vows at Niagra Falls. She seemed to like that.. Didn't say yes or no but discussed plans to.. I will investigate.When we went to bed she initiated sex. Afterwards I said it was nice you did that. She was like why?? I said cause it's usually me that does it.. I hope that this continues cause it's really nice to see your wants and desires. The foundation we are building is a lot better then we ever had. 

This morning we worked so well together only getting 3-4 hours of sleep each of us.. Still this is going to be a fight Ican see how hard it is to maintain this type of drive.. She came down and handed me my wedding band. I put it back on. She said she will try to find hers tonight. She put one of her immitation ones on to at least have something. She asked why I wanted it on. I said its a symbol of our commitment and if we are going to do this might as well 100%.. Gave our kisses goodbye and I won't see her till tonight. Going to be rough his week. As she said to me we will get by.. I said I know just tired.. Something big is going to happen in our life in the next 6 months I can feel it... Hopefully it will be good..


----------



## Corpuswife

You really are on the right track. So is she! NOW you BOTH are on the right track. You are inspiring LH.


----------



## Loving Husband

Just wanted to give too guys a little update. Things going pretty good now. We are really reconnecting as if we are dating again. The wife is seeing how much of a bond we have. We have been having sex almost every day and she said its like she needs it all the time. Now its great in all and a lot of passion but its not love making yet. Today we discussed that and she is seeing the low self esteem issues she has. She told me she doesn't understand why she needs attention from men. We went into a pretty good comverstation and I hope it helped. we went shopping together and we were like a close couple again. She was picking out boots and asked me to pick ones out. Funny thing is the ones I pocked out she really liked. Memtioned cause I know her. Pointed out a few times about how well we get along. She is feeling it. No I love you back yet. I sent her a text telling her how she makes me feel but also how nervous p am cause heart on the line. So she texts me back to be happy about us instead of nervous. I'm enjoying this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

She is opening up to you and that is good! 

Sex is good as it puts all sort of hormones through the body and brain. Good for the depression! Just in case you were doing it for that reason. haha.


----------



## Loving Husband

She is opening up but sometimes its more of a problem then good. I talked to her a little more about the self-esteem issue and she said she kind of regrets telling me what she is going through cause now she has to deal with it and deal with me knowing it. What she was planing on doing was working it out by herself without telling me. This is the root of why she doesn't say I love you back. I think she can't love herself and isn't of sound mind how can she love me then?? Every other way we are a couple and it's something that will work its course according to her so I'm not really worried. Still it's very frustrating I can't help her.. We did a lot of hugging last night after I got home.. The house is toast. It's ok though its only materalistic stuff.. Nothing a good day of cleanup wouldn't solve either.. Well we went to bed last night I was spooning her and she was holding my hand. Told her it's so nice to hold her.. She squeezed my hand.. This morning was fun!!! She woke me up with just her panties... She felt I was excited. Had a nice quicky!!! Got up and got both kids ready for school.. Now I'm sitting here as I have to go work by 10.. I just got home at 11:30..  Then food shopping and I won't be home till 9pm and then back at work at 7am.. I am going to be dead..


----------



## knortoh

LH I am so happy for you - I am sure you will so value what you have .....


----------



## Loving Husband

Yes I do.. I think its very fragile and takes so much work. If I do that something else will fall but thats ok.. As long as I have my marriage I can handle everything else easier. Still a big change is coming.. I really want to sell this house and move but it doesn't seem to be what she wants yet. She likes our house. It is a beautiful home and it's hard to give up after we built it.. In our current situation its going to be tough especially if she loses her job.. I also feel some more pressure coming on to make that big change..


----------



## Xusan

Congratulations LH! It sounds like your wife is opening up more and more, and he two of you are tackling problems as a team!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## knortoh

LH - eventually I hope it will get to a more robust place.. where you guys are equal partners in life -
until then I guess you better than anyone knwo how to look after something that is fragile...
you are a superstar!


----------



## Loving Husband

Tanks all for the wonderful support... I do appreciate it.. Still working hard..

That might not be here. I know judging from last night it's not going to be easy cause we are running on fumes.. She's tired and so am I. I didn't have the "big" move talk yet but soon. I was too tired. I worked till 7 then food shopping.. Baths for kids. Dishes... I didn't sit until 9:30. I spent the next hour holding my wife or sitting next to each other holding hands watching TV. Talked about out "night" together which should be today. She is still having a hard time opening up as I call it or dropping the wall.. I asked if she could working on making tonight exciting by little playful texts and she responded your asking a bit much from me at this moment. I need more time. Same goes with our little playful gestures. She used to grab me as I walk by and I thought it was cute. Asked her about it and she said it will come back eventually. I guess she is just seeing if this is real.. Almost like I am giving you a shot now prove yourself. Though every action I have done confirms its genuine. One thing she realizes about herself is that she sees all the anger in her.. This is from so much stress. It's why we need the change. I'm afraid for my wifes health 5 years down the road.. Well heres to a good night of passion and love making..


----------



## knortoh

LH she has made so much progress, keep that in mind.


----------



## Loving Husband

Well she did try.. It was great. At work she was texting me about last night. Some playful texts and it led to a nice day/night. I came home around 3 or so and we talked a lot.. I finally got to speak my mind about the relationship and what I was looking for. I know she is capable of it.. In a nut shell I talked about how if she contrubutes who she is and how she loves to me I will give her everything back and then some. Yet she has to help continue the fire. I can not be the only person driving the desire. She is starting to understand. The day was the best I had in a VERY long time. There was so much kissing and hugging and flirting I was going to die by the night.. At times I was making her laugh so much her face hurt she said. kept pointing out our good points. Why we need to get away and be like this more often.. The night upstairs was great. I am exhausted and need to go to work but I can handle  it's a good tired..


----------



## knortoh

Best sort of tired!


----------



## Loving Husband

Well I am starting to get her to see herself. I am able to start talking about HERSELF more and more without it looking like I am blaming her.. I worked yesterday and came home and cut the lawn.. Cooked dinner and cleaned it up. Cleaned my sons mess as he trashed the house. Wife did a test before I came home and said house is trashed. I calmly said its ok ill be home in a bit to clean it up.. After dinner we got youngest to bed. We watched a movie together. Holding hands and being close.. Afterwards I started to talk to her. She pointed out how lazy she was. How that needs to stop. She said she feels empty inside and doesn't know why. This is why she says she can't say I love you.. This all goes back to depresion and not seeing any hope. Yet talked aobut how her heart is there. With all the closeness.. The jealousy.. The excitment.. The laughing. I said your there its just you seeing it. We talked about loving each other and how she has NEVER dropped the wall. She always held back.. I said if you want to have a greater love this HAS to happen.. You have to be exposed to be hurt in order to have that type of love. I hit some many things last night. I even said that she was only happy when I was killing myself. If I did everything then she was happier. If I didn't she wasn't. I said you should love me if I am doing everything or nothing. I should do same for you. Mentioned her to do Love Dare and that might happen. All in all I am finally got us on track and now I am trying to help her.. I might be dead after it though. I am fighting a cold now.. Lack of sleep.. Though she is back and looks like not going any where.  Makes it all worth it..

A few more things. We also discussed her need to get attention from men. I feel is what led us to our seperations 5 years ago and before we were married. She didn't deny it. That her self esteem was so low that she needed attention to make her feel loved since I couldn't provide that all the time. How before me she went from guy to guy to get that fill.. I think this was a big eye opener to her that I knew about it. That I also knew she always held back afraid to be hurt. How 5 years ago when we did this and she came back she didn't drop the wall. That all she did was come back. Now I stressed to her that wall HAS to be down if she wants to feel better. You can't go into this with one foot in.. You need to jump in and expose your heart. It's the only way to truely love.. What's so nervous is she knows it's true but don't know if she is capable of it..


----------



## knortoh

LH I am so amazed at your capacity to work through this - and all after a hard day's work - I know now what I am reading - it is pure determination - spirit - the strength to go on - despite hardship and 'tests' and you are smart as well...a very unique person you are LH....


----------



## Corpuswife

LH: Only good things will happen to you. You are a good man. Not that you won't have rough times...but I believe in Karma and you deserve the best!


----------



## Loving Husband

Thanks all.. I work so hard it makes me drained. I am trying to do this for both. Yet it's coming to a head soon.. I worked till 8 last night came home wife text me that the dishes were not done. I came home and did them even though she told me she was going to after she put son to bed. That was fine. I offered so it's not huge. She gave me a few kisses and thanked me. Afterwards we sat and watched TV. I was drinking a few beers and man I knew that was going to get me going. Well the thoughts I was thinking came out. We talked all about her and whats going on.. It mainly had to do with that wall that she has up and has had for a LONG time. I said you can't love somebody with one foot out the door. It's like you have an escape plan. I said you need to be ALL in or ALL out.. no inbetween. This is why we are struggling in our marriage. That if you can't give 100% I will notice. I pointed out instances of that and how it's made me feel. I said you loved me more when I killed myself and if I didn't you oved me less. I can not keep that up. I will drain like when we did this 5 years ago. You expected me to drive this for both and I can not. Nobody can. If you love me you need to love me. I can honestly say I don't think she has ever let go and loved me. Kind of scary. She might have but it hasn't been for a LONG time. I was even crying towards then end of our talks cause I was looking for her love and how much I needed it. Yet she couldn't look at me cause she knew I was in pain and she hates that she is causing it. She mentioned I deserve better.. That she knows everything she is doing wrong yet she continues to do it. She doesn't understand. So I stressed the love dare. I said you never look ito anything. You never try to learn how to improve. I said the love dare with help give you some focus. How to love better and yet you hesitate on doing it. I am not asking her to be totally a godly women just to learn to understand what love is and involves. Some sort of direction. By the end of the night she was looking for her wedding ring and engagement ring. Then we went upstairs and fell asleep together. Now we are finally working together to improve this. Hopefully I see this love I have always wanted to see. To feel she wants me and to make me happy.


----------



## knortoh

Wow these conversations must be so exhausting....


----------



## Loving Husband

knortoh said:


> Wow these conversations must be so exhausting....


Yes they are but it's helping. We watched the directors commentator version of fireproof where they talk about every scene.. It helped in the sense of enforcing what the message they were trying to get across. My wife really could understand how the Women in the movie felt and how these ministers knew how she felt and how to make it better. It's really giving my wife the lightbulb. I asked her if she knew how to love and she sat and thought for a minute and said maybe I don't. All good stuff.. Got Monday Night football tonight. Asked her if she wanted me tostay and said we will see. She's afraid of getting into a funk which she does before going back to work. She was off for 4 days.. More issues that stop us from being us.. It's frustrating..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well we went ou as a family.. Bought some mums and halloween stuff. Wife thought about going to Monday Night Footbal with me and drop kids at mom's but she instead wanted to spend night with me..:smthumbup: That means a nice night together.. She said I love you.. I hesitated and said you sure??? In a joking way. She said yes.. I said you control how good our mariage can be. All you have to do is work at it and put me first.. Then I made dinner. She was getting a few texts and after a bit asked me. You going to ask who they are from?? I said no as long as you a loving me and putting me first I don't care. I only had a problem when I wasn't first and others were getting more attention.. Then she kissed me I guess she was feeling better about more freedom.. We are on a better road for sure. Just now need to nip a few things.. The depression is always there.. The drinking to mask the depression.. Now at least she isn't running I can address these issues slowly.. Still need to work on her quiting smoking and getting into better shape. All in due time..


----------



## knortoh

LH honestly I tired just reading your posts -


----------



## Loving Husband

knortoh said:


> LH honestly I tired just reading your posts -


At least you don't have to live it.  One thing you we get from me is I am upfront and very honest. What you see and read is exactly how it is. I like that because I want people to understand the whole picture so just not to comfort me but maybe to help me see mistakes I am doing.. It did help a lot..


----------



## knortoh

Yes LH I get that feeling - you are a what you see is what get type guy...lay it on the line, tell it how it is....even you image says that to me - here I am !


----------



## valium

I am glad it seems to be going well for you. It is easier when both people are trying.


----------



## Loving Husband

valium said:


> I am glad it seems to be going well for you. It is easier when both people are trying.


It is geting better but I want MORE.. I think after the talks and progress we made I think this is my opportunity to turn it around onto her. I want a better marriage.. I will see how I can get her to want it also.


----------



## JackStack

Loving Husband said:


> It is geting better but I want MORE.. I think after the talks and progress we made I think this is my opportunity to turn it around onto her. I want a better marriage.. I will see how I can get her to want it also.


I think its great that your are making some progress but can you really have a better long term marriage if the core issue of her depression is not addressed? I think you run the real risk of undoing some of the great work you've done by just accepting your wifes situation. I am in a similar situation to yourself (although without the progress you've made!) With depression I just feel there is no 'finishing line' like there is with many other illnesses. Its a case of managing the depression as best she can. I really think that you need to encourage therapy to her so she can learn the coping tools so as not to slip back into old ways. 
Without this, your struggle will have been some what in vain. What I'm saying is I guess dont get too carried away with the new 'changes'. I've been there and without dealing with the underlying issue and with your expectations higher, you only set yourself up for another fall.

Well done so far. Believe me I know what you're going through. Its an unbelievable struggle.


----------



## Loving Husband

Jack I see this already and it is making me nervous. We did this 5 years ago and it slipped back. Mainly I believe because her side wasn't fixed. I brought this up last night to her. Saying I wanted a better marriage and not to slip back. She said she knows but needs to give her some time and not to push. To let her do this at her speed. There are so many issues she needs to tackle can only do 1 at a time. Yes she does need couseling problem is she rejects it. Makes it harder. In fact I think her sister is the best couseling. I think she has made a world of difference to get it where it is now.. She understands what I am looking for and can't see why my wife is unable to give herself into the marriage. I know there is a ton of work ahead yet its nice to be where I am now.


----------



## Loving Husband

Life is moving around like normal still the final barrier has to be met. One thing is that the thought of moing to Florida is being discussed more. She knows it's going to be hard to stay here if she losses her job because of the benfits and her salary willbe hard to be met. Her sister called her last night and talked to her fora bit but have no idea what was said. Her mother is here and told me she doesn't want to much affection until she tells her where we are. Funny thing is she is afraid how her mother woul react and think she would get a heart attack. Any way last night they had a chance but she didn't tell her. Well that last barrier is her letting go and as she tells me she isn't there yet.. Still don't understand how somebody can with hold affection and think its going to help marriage. Not sure how to tackle this problem. I am already running myself down a lot and last night I went to bed early cause my whole body felt like i was getting a cold. I was all tight and I barely got out of bed.. Well 3 more days of work..


----------



## Loving Husband

Ugh man that feeling I had was getting sick.. I went home early from work.. Noticed a few things that makes my wife odd. I sent her a text message I was going home sick and wanted her to come home and cuddle with me.. She wrote back... Aww.. Not something like I wish I could be there or when i came home I'll curl up to you.. Aww.. It's almost like I am being cute. I called her on it and she said she didn't mean it like that but I said thats how it came accros. She said she would work on it.. So I set my away message to out of the office. She replies back seeing that. I said yes I wanted to let my girlfriend know I wasn't there.. She sent a smiley back saying talk to the hand. So I wrote back I was playing and that she is the only one that has my heart. She responded you have mine too then asked if thats was ok.. I said that little response made me feel better and doing the little things helps nurture a relationship.. That this could lead to bigger things or a love she only dreamed of. I guess this is the baby steps I have to work at. Hopefully someday she will put me first like I do for her and our marriage will be great.. Now I have to get better as I am getting really sick..


----------



## knortoh

LH - look after yourself - watch lots of crap tv and relax - you need a break


----------



## Corpuswife

Sleeeeeep! Take care of yourself. Let her take care of you!!hehe


----------



## knortoh

LH I am just listening to a Bruce Springsteen song called "I'll work for your love" - don't know whether you know it but it so makes me think of you...


----------



## Loving Husband

K.. Thanks not sure I heard that one.. I'lll DL and listen to it.. Our song when we got married was Bryan Adams "Everything I do I do it for you". I picked it and I live by it.. Her on the other hand.. I don't think she has ever learned to love me close to that.. She's starting to get it... I am slowly working with her and giving her confidence to break that wall.

BTW that sick I got was like 24 hours. I bounced back the next day. Really odd.. Then again since I don't smoke.. I get exercise and take vitamins I am in pretty good shape.. Guess it helps.


----------



## Loving Husband

Last night was supposed to be a very intimate night. Turned into something else. I came home and she was happy and horny.. Started nice. Then well I started talking about our love and her wall. It is what's preventing us from the next level. Talked about her having 1 foot out the door all the time and she agrees.. I said you can't really love somebody that way. She once again understands. She questions why she does that. So shes looking inside herself.. She also started crying about getting married so young and saying she would try and stop anybody from doing that. I said I understand then she said you don't so I read off reasons why she felt that way and she knew I understood. Still I said you can't go back and can only move forward. That we are here here for her. We talked move about the love dare and I think she might try and do it. I said I know what we did wrong 5 years ago and I know how to fix it but I said you need to do the work on your side and she agreed. I said if you put me first ain everything you do you'll see the benefits. I mentioned I been with her almost 19 years I don't think I am going any where.  Going to be interesting to see if we move to that next level.. I am almost scared cause it's like the unknown frontier..


----------



## Corpuswife

She seems very receptive now. It's a good place for you to be....

Be careful not to push to far. She may end up being overwhelmed or think she's not capable and give up.

Just a thought.


----------



## Loving Husband

Yeah Corpus she is more open now then I have seen in years. She decided to stay home with me. As we tried to finally close pool. LOL.. She worked on it outside while I watched son.. After son went down for 2 hour nap that opened door for us to have a little fun.  She wanted to go to Monday Night football at the bar with me so I gave the kids baths fed our son and daughter and dressed them for bed. Dropped them off my mother's for a few hours. Went there and had my usual good time.. Wife kept taking notes. It's funny to see her looking at me differently. I would be very considerate with passing food and offering stuff for her. She would just look at me and smile. I didn't want to ask her cause I knew what she was doing. We left a little late and picked up kids took them home and put them to bed. Wife and I stayed up a few hours later talking and then round 2. . She keeps testing me with my feelings for her and only her. Trying to bring up different sceneros to see how I would react. To see if I would want to be with another women. If she allowed it but I didn't bite.  I didn't let her bring me in to see how I would react. Still lots of affection and that wall is coming down.. She is opening up and starting to see more of what she wants. Like she pointed out how we are both off next fri-sun. How we can have fun together. I said yes thats what I been telling you. Not to dwell on our bad schedules but to focus on when they line up and to make a nice day out of it. Sexually she is starting to come around. She is starting to see you only live once. So I might have a really nice end of year. Especially if her layoff is soon.  As long as no baby 3 on way we are good. I really need to see about getting fixed..


----------



## Corpuswife

That ending of your post. The last sentence is something you may want to think seriously about...soon. You mentioned that your last child put your wife over the edge. Imagine another! 

So wonderful to hear of your progress though.


----------



## Loving Husband

It's a scary thought.. Really is.. Though I know it's a concern of hers.. I can honestly tell you if the situation was right she would have another child with me. That situation though is comfortable with money and the ability to to stay home with the child. I doubt it's something I will be able to work out but if we moved to Florida there would be a shot. Maybe this is why she is willing to go now?? At least spend a few years with our son before he's too old to do that for. It's one of the hardest decisions to make.. When to say your totaly done. I can't say 100% I feel that way though it's almost there


----------



## Corpuswife

It wasn't too long ago that your wife blamed your child for some of her issues (or something like that). I recall this...read some of your old posts. It's more than just staying at home and being comfortable with money. That's a big bonus but not the cure. Childbirth, as you know, can be a big trigger to depression. Since she is already fragile...I would seriously consider doubling up on birth control. Have you considered that your wife is "waking up" partially due to time after child birth. Sometimes symptoms of postpartum can last 2 years.

I stayed at home for 15 years...I still had depression issues and ended up losing myself. It can be lonely and family focused if you don't make a concerted effort to put in "me" time.

Not trying to be a downer...just bringing up some points.


----------



## Loving Husband

C- I understand and yes she probably couldn't handle it in our current state. It's no something we are trying but due to certain issues its a risk. She can't take birth control due to age/smoking/high blood pressure and I refuse to wear a glove. So we have the pull out method going and as you know its not 100% I am just covering all possiblities. Now she has never gotten pregnant like that but you never know.. I think what we went through last 2 times was post partum.. We have made 2 beautiful happy kids and the fact during her last pregnancy they said all tests came back like she was in her 20's made it less of a concern.. I don't expect it or want it like that. I got my 2 kids.. Just in the past we talked about 3..


----------



## knortoh

LH take it from me that aint a reliable method...I am painfully qualified on this.


----------



## Loving Husband

k- LOL... You know they say as you get older your less fertile but as my wife said she thinks she is a late bloomer cause there are signs that her body is waking up more now then 10 years ago.. At least on the baby aspect..


----------



## knortoh

Yep LH less fertile, more fertile it doesn't matter - it can happen - and it does...


----------



## Corpuswife

There are other methods-diaphram, IUD, spermacide (good with condom that you won't wear).

If she got pregnant today...how would she react?


----------



## dobo

I've already called. Your appt for the "snip snip" is next Thursday. 

Seriously, you're playing with fire. Get fixed pronto.


----------



## Loving Husband

C-- To be honest she really did want another kid but its circumstances that would not allow it. My wife would never tell me she wanted our second but she knew we had to and is glad we did. Still no 3rd unless God feels like mesing with us.. Her negative feelings told me with her luck she would get pregnant with twin boys.. 

Dobo--- OUCH!!


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the wife is shocking me with her personal growth. Today I was having some fun talking to her about me needs. Hey I'm still a man. Well it that time of the month so I brouht a little me time and you know what I mean so she starts off by texting me the same old excuses for not thinking of me first and how she doesn't feel sexy which I understand. Then to my surprise a second text goes in about how she should think of my needs more. I was floored and text her back how impressed I was. She just said back I told you I'm trying to change. Sent it back that I thobj we really are on a better road. Made me feel like she is starting to get it. Maybe my constant reinforcement is helping 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corpuswife

The good point about you LH is that you are up front with your feelings.

You tell her how you feel and what you want. That is a big gift!


----------



## Loving Husband

Corpuswife said:


> The good point about you LH is that you are up front with your feelings.
> 
> You tell her how you feel and what you want. That is a big gift!


Or a curse. Trust me it can be..


----------



## knortoh

Why ? do you feel that you give away too much or get yourself into trouble? I am extremely open heart on my sleeve type person and i think my H with his NG tendencies found it confronting at times - so I learnt to hold back as well - but that sure didn't get us anywhere!


----------



## Loving Husband

Sometime people don't want to hear the truth. They don't want to see reality. My wife has told me that.. Yes I do give to much away also. It can get me in a lot of trouble.. Still I wish she was more like that then we would have a better understanding. I find myself all the time telling her what are you talking about I am not a mind reader.. With me she never asks that.


----------



## Loving Husband

Man this weekend was tough on the wife. I am just loving her and allowing her to see everything without me doing anything to distract her.. On Sat i worked like normal and came home after 7. It was to be a nice night cause she no work on Sunday and I had a rare day off. So Sat night was to be us. Well she continues to battle herself. Between what she wants to do and what she does. The panic attacks associated with it. She didn't do much and I came home bringing food cause she didn't cook and I bought her flowers. Mainly to show her I love her no matter what. She was happy at first but after dinner for them she sunk into her depression. She was mad at herself and said the problems are 100% her. That she knows she is doing things wrong and doesn't know why she does them.. That she also told me she can't function with out me. That was big. It was basically telling me she needs me. So she is making big strides in what is going on with herself. She doesn't know how to fix it but she wants to move. She thinks a fresh start will help. She has a love/hate relationship with the house. Still it looks like we will try to move soon.. Each day I am continuing to push her forward. Keep reinforcing to her that we are doing better. Supporting her growth and hoping she is reading the love dare like she said she would at work. Haven't asked her in a while. Keeps asking me to be patient with er but thinks she will get there. This weekend is supposed to be nice... We have off Fri-Sun together. I have off Monday also.. We are planing lots of intimate nights together.. )


----------



## knortoh

Go LH !


----------



## Loving Husband

I got a kick out of a comment my wife made yesterday. Show you how things change fast. We were discussing me transfering with my job as soon as I to get established there and she started to cry saying our son would miss me a lot. 2 months ago she was willing to divorce was she thinking about him missing me then? Just goes to show you things change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## knortoh

Feelings - they are slippery little things aren't they - that's what keeps me hanging on -


----------



## Loving Husband

K we are creatures of habit. The more he runs the more he will remember what you had. You are somebody he is comfortable with. You can not disappear that easy for him. Funny thing is the more you run the more you remember.


----------



## Corpuswife

You are a rock LH...a real rock! You wife is lucky to have a man willing to stand at the door and keep her from running.


----------



## knortoh

I so wish I would have been able to keep my H here with me - it was tough - it was horrible but at least he was here.........that is what I am thinking tonight


----------



## Loving Husband

CW- I have my doubts for sure.. Like tis was supposed to be us all weekend yet it seems like she is letting everything effect her feelings more then focusing on us. Still she says I am the most important person to her but I don't see I am. I see the same women making excuses why something doesn't happen. Rome wasn't built in a day. I continue to say things that prove how we need to be first. Like watching a movie together last night and talking about what has happened so far. Things like my DD class pictures looking horrible. She allowed herself to be mad all night. Ruined us. Explained that life is too short and we need to focus on what's really important.. Guess time wil tell..


K- You can't will somebody there but I am still confused as to what he is looking for really. Chasing images of what people want isn't real. He has to see that eventually.


----------



## Corpuswife

LH: I know you've discussed this before...will she consider getting help (counseling) at least? She may feel better after the counseling.


----------



## Loving Husband

She has a negative attitude about it so as you know it will do no good. I am just trying to get her to focus on reading the love dare. If she can I think it might open up counselling. As she told me she has to want it. Working on getting er to want it. So far she is still full of excuses..


----------



## knortoh

Thanks LH -
I think now he is scared - he says that he has an active imagination and has always lived in an 'imaginary' space a lot - fantasising about women - he did this to escape our marriage - which makes me so sad - I have been such a lovely and 'real' wife. Now he has left he hasn't 'made good' on any of the fantasies - (the OW) - but that is not to say that she isn't still a big part of his active imagination....he is scared that he will find out he was wrong I think...but even that isn't enough to bring him back - he wants to be able to have a 'real' relationship with someone new - he is just waiting now until he is 'over' the trauma and guilt of what he has done to me and our family.

You are so wise about your wife - she is stubborn hey?


----------



## Loving Husband

I don't think she is stubborn or afraid of change. She has a wall that is hard to break. It's a defense mechanism. Don't show your true feelings so you won't be hurt. Your husband is going through mid-life crisis. He knows what he has in you but doesn't know if thats good enough. So he is thinking the grass greener?? My W battled this too. She knows what she has but since I was really the only person she was with she was curious to know if its better or not. Thank god it never got that far for her to realize its not. For your H I am not sure if he will ever get to that point before D or not but he will eventually.. Marriage is better when you work at what yuo have then try to start over and think it might.. Hard to get them to see that. I am constant on my W. Even tonight I am still working. There was more talk about unconditional love and how I asked for so little in return.. I even teared up in the car and she saw. As she tells me I brought her down by how much of a schumck she's been. It's going to happen one day soon.. That wall is going to fall before the end of the year..


----------



## Loving Husband

Halloween was ok with the family. I wasn't that happy cause of the previous 2 days geting me down with the wifes excuses. I told her a few times why I wasn't happy and she said that she would make it up tonight. At her sisters I talked to her sister and I think the Wife over heard me talking about how frustrating it is when you work so hard on the relationship and only to have this wall block it. Then her sister would talk about how her marriage is and frustrated. her husband is collecting social security and she works 12 hours a day and comes home to take care of the house. She is fried and it burns her up to see her sister (my wife) not appreciate what do for her.. Any way on the ride home my wife was beating herself up about not loving me the way she should.. It was a bit of a downer but it wasn't bad.. We then got home and put the kids to bed. Decided to watch a movie beofre going to bed. It was a wierd one on showtime called the one eyed monster. It was a comedy about ron jeremy and his pecker.. Really stupid.. Well we went to bed and had a really nice night. Afterwards we talked and continued my work about opening up and unconditional love. She started to cry and I could see that wall cracking. Just doing the continous reinforcement of what's important in life.. She still says she will do love dare and maybe on me.. Will definately help her see the big picture.


----------



## Corpuswife

I hear that you are frustrated. The amount of time and effort that you are putting is working. 

I worry about your being burned out. You are a smart guy....know that sometimes you need a break as well.


----------



## Loving Husband

CW- Thanks but I am doing much better. Just tired. At least I am not going crazy and tired.  It is really starting to click in her and she is starting to open up more. Just having her to trust me that I'm not going to hurt her.


----------



## FloridaGuy

thats great you are making progress. I'm happy for you. i wish i had your skills as i am in a somewhat similar situation. i fear that much of what i have done since this all started for me has just made it worse. i guess i'm not very good with words sometimes. 

but your story gives me hope that maybe, just maybe i can pull off a miracle in my marriage. I got to have some hope if nothing at all

good luck


----------



## Loving Husband

Florida- It's not skills. It's just trying to get them to slow down and think. When they get like that they tend to let emotions run them over. What we need to do is be there as much as we can no matter how much they hurt us.. Be the better person. If she's got a heart she will see it..


----------



## Loving Husband

Man my wife still has work ahead.. Just today she told me that there is one thing that bothers her about unconditional love. She said the book tells you that even if your not in the mood to be intimate you should.. I said you need to trust your partner. She knows I am not like that but she missing the point and I told her its not that anything is being done in a selfish or vandictive way it's about offering yourself up to your partner. I said if I was very sick and she needed me to go get her something I would. It's not about taking advantage of somebody its about offering yourself to them.. I hope she does the book. She has to stop that constant negative thinking. It's very destructive. Someday she will realize I am not trying to hurt her..


----------



## Corpuswife

That's nicely put...."it not about taking advantage of somebody it's about offering yourself to them."

Isn't the true.


----------



## Loving Husband

I think I can safely say my marriage is in reconcile now. I sent her a few text messages once again showing her the true path to feeling better and she sent a text back about why I am so nice to her when she is a total sh_t. I mentioned cause I love you unconditionally. I also told her I am here for her for the rest of my life if she wanted me. She replied back yes I want you for the rest of your life.. We might not be "there" but I think we are on the path..


----------



## Corpuswife

Your are definitely on the parth LH. No doubt.


----------



## knortoh

Hey LH - just wanted to say hi - sounds good
K


----------



## Loving Husband

Still a work in progress. I have been a bit upset lately as I have seen little effort on her part to be connected. Once again her slipping into the taking mode. As she tells me she is not in a good place with her personal revelation. I continue to talk to her about putting me first and leading your heart to stay connected. She starts her usuall layoff next week so the time issue won't be a problem. At least I am not getting blamed for saying how I feel or what I want. I continue to show her how I put her first in everything I do no matter what that is.. I try to explain thats all I want to see. That I am important enough to make the effort for.. It could be anything but it is an attitude thats positive. Still think we are on a good path she is just having a hard time with it. Can't give up...


----------



## knortoh

Just wanted to share something with you LH. I really do see you as an inspiration - you are just clear - and you stay on track -

I don't hold out hope for my H and I - he is really so gone - but I kind of use you as a guide in how to be - I'll give you an example 

my H really pissed me off today and I had a bit of an argument with him - much later I wrote him an email - I didn't apologise - but I tried really hard to explain what I was thinking etc and to help him to understand things from my perspective. Where I am at now with him is that I want to continue to have as 'honest' and truthful a relationship with him as I can. It's about recognising that we still do have a relationship over the kids and it is going to be a life long one. I am determined to do everything I can to make it the best relationship it can be under the circumsatnces - I am not saying I want to be his friend - I don't think that is possible - I am saying that I want to be me throughout and I am not ever going to let him forget who I am - reasonable fair and honest - these are my best characteristics ....one day he will recognise these -

but I am doing it for me and for my kids and for the best parts of him - I know everyone says that you have to forget about the spouse and think about yourself only - but I think that isn't quite correct - not sure exactly what I am saying - but I think you'll knwo what I mean?


----------



## Loving Husband

K- I completely understand.. Being open and honest about every issue is what people need. Spelling it out and giving examples. What the hope is eventually the other person will see what you are doing.. That your intentions are genuine and he will see that. You have to stay on course or he will think its an act. This is how a relationship should ALWAYS be. But its funny how we all have to fail before we see what we need to do isn't it?? You are going to see your relationship getting better soon if you stay on this course. It might not be a marriage but at least better. He needs to accept his issues before you can have a marriage again..


I figured out what got my wife all messed up. She got her period a week early so this past weekend was PMS. It really effects her. Now that she got it she feels horrible.. 

I just text my wife I missed her and want to spend all day in bed with her.. Her response was sounds good. So I asked her to make it happen. Like I said I am going to make her be in this marriage even if it kills me..


----------



## knortoh

Thanks LH - new you'd understand - and dang those hormones - they really do get to us don't they???


----------



## Loving Husband

Man the wife is having such a hard time with handling life and pressure along with seperating priorities.. She was having a bad day at work and I was texting her. She really couldn't talk much which I understand but man after she got off work I never heard from her.. She would come home make dinner for her and the kids and her mother.. Then her shows were on. Mean while I worked until 7 and then went food shopping and didn't come home until 9.. I was pretty pissed at that point. Never heard from her in regards to the earlier texts. I text her after I got off work at 7 a few more times. Explaining how I need to be first in the marriage and I feel like I am not.. Examples. Her work is in front. The kids are in front. her shows are in front. Since obviously anything I said to her via text was ignored. I came home and put away the food. She said hi and I basically ignored her. After the kids went to bed she started to talk to me. Asked me about my day. I really wasn't in the mood. I told her how I don't feel first and she started to go off about her work and how upset it gets her. I said to her this is what I meant about your work in front. Its effecting you.. She is only going to go in 1 day a week but still upset about going.. After our little talk I walked up to her and whispered in her ear.. See how your work effected us just tonight. To give her an example of how by not putting us first it ruined the evening. We were not the normal loving couple we been.. I am hoping to get through to her one day. Stop making excuses and pony up to make this marriage better then before. Not sure she will ever get it though. She keeps telling me everybody wants something from her. She never gets a break. it's very hard with somebody that can't see the ray of light.


----------



## Corpuswife

It's hard LH. I know you want your needs met but it may be, when you ask, "put me first" it's overwhelming to her. Another thing she must tend to...although you aren't a "thing." It's just she knows you can fend for yourself. 

Plus..the depression and her perception doesn't help.

She may never "get it" they way you want her to...maybe she doesn't have the capacity to "get it" the way you would like. Personalities are different. So are expectations.


----------



## Loving Husband

CW- I understand about everybody being different. She can love me in the way she wants all I ask is for her to do that by putting me first. 

Yes I do believe it is overwhelming her. Even going on layoff she is still allowing it to run her life. Yet isn't that the case cause she is not prioritizing her life?? As I said it seems like everything else rates in front of "us". If everything lines up right our relationship is important enough to make time for. Yes I undersand thats how most people are but then again we are creeping up to 3/4 marriages failing.. She understands and by setting little reminders to her about where we went off track I am hoping she puts it together. She tells me my timing sucks and I do think I have some bad timing but life isn't easy or perfect. Sometimes you have to just go with it.. I do think she is capable of loving like that it's just she allows everything else to effect her more now then in yerars past. Why she wants to go to Florida now. To help with that..


----------



## Corpuswife

LH: Depression and anxiety are often "sisters." Sounds like she has a bit of anxiety as well. She's overwhelmed...

Has her drinking slowed since she's reconnected with you?

With her layoff...will she afford the time to see a counselor?


----------



## Loving Husband

She has anxiety very bad. She is on xanax for a reason. She doesn't pop them all the time only when panic attack is happening. As she tells me its been a bad few weeks. With her work getting on her hard since layoff was close. She really wants to be done with the place. Yet they are making her go in once a week. I try to say its only 1 day but she can't seem to le that part go. Then she tells me her period and that timing. I just felt like she was going back to he way it was before and I see what that does to me. I did try to use an example how she would understand. I said what if I stayed on computer again? Like I did in past where if I felt like I asn't getting the feeling of being important I retreated in here to get away. I said if I did that how would you feel knowing I am putting my time more into that computer then you.. She said she understands and that she loves me and is't going any where.. Yet as I told you before I want MORE. I want a better marriage.. One which we are both happy and satisfied. Right now I think she is a lot happier in the marriage then I am... I hope things get better on er layoff.. We are going to do this together.. Still very hard to get her to see it..

BTW: the drinking is there still. I am convinced it's there cause its an escape. It has to do with how she andles work.. The kids.. The house.. Of course me.. She gets all crazy in her head. Uses a few drinks to calm down. I understand to a point but not how much she does it... We all need a drink or 2 every now and then. She just has the every now and then more often.


----------



## Corpuswife

The drinking and anxiety are crutches. My H does the same thing...it's his coping skills. Not very good ones either.

Do you feel, after all of the effort that you put forth, that you may have some resentment toward your wife? The fact that she hasn't tried to meet your needs?


----------



## Loving Husband

The only resentment I have is fear about her not seeing what is needed to be in a fullfilling marriage on both ends. I don't think she has learned to love unconditionally and that's disappointing. I am not mad at her just frustrated at having a better marriage for both of us. I a going to push the Love Dare now that she is on layoff cause she said she would during this time. My main problem is her excuses. I keep getting them as to why she can't do what she says she will do.. As she tells me she knows she does things that are wrong and she doesn't know how to correct it. This is where I am trying to help her see. Like I told her if I retreated to office how would it make you feel?? Would you like that I am putting my time and effort into the computer over you?? She said no so i think she understands cause of the way she reacts after a few minutes letting her think about it..


----------



## Loving Husband

I try and talk to her and she says she knows and that I beat it into her but as I keep telling her I want it BETTER. Right now I see her slipping back into the old way. I mentioned that. I know the keys to success and I said I can't do it by myself. That if she puts effort into it we will be great. I said you make time for your FB stuff. Why not make effort into our marriage like that?? I said if you want something bad enough you'll make time for it.. Just do that for our marriage. I hope she gets it but I am so tired of the excuses..


----------



## Corpuswife

She can only hold up her end of the relationship for so long.

LH...she is sick. She is trying but needs to work on her own issues. Instead of pushing for attention...push for her to get help (weekly if needed). When she helps herself than you will likely get all of the attention you want. She can't give if she doesn't have it to give.

Just a thought.


----------



## Loving Husband

I get the feeling she doesn't want to see anybody and as you know if you don't want help like that it won't do any good.. She has to want help.. She has already told me she doesn't like to see therapists.. There is a good chance I might end up moving to Florida before them and she will be alone with the kids. Might help her clear her mind. I get conflicting stories from her when I talk.. She really wants to but I think her priorities are screwed up.. A day where her work bothers her she ruins the night cause of the bad day. An evening the kids are all over the place the night is over. I tried to explain that everything has a priority but if she allows those things that pop up to take center stage our relationship will always be a struggle. I know she understands. I see it. I am just hoping to help her work through it. I already reconfirmed I am not going any where as long as no affair.. We will get this no matter how long it takes. I just know what we need to do on both ends to make it work well..


----------



## knortoh

LH - if only I had your wisdom and patience I don't think I'd be in the mess I am - so hard to think straight when you are hurting like hell - your strength is that you know yourself - you are trying to help your w - but you are working to your own agenda - stay strong


----------



## Loving Husband

I think its determination. I REFUSE to have my marriage exsist only. I want better. I see what it takes to be better and I have a goal. I think this is why my son is so strong. He has such determination. If he can't figure something out he doesn't stop until he does figure it. He is simply amazing for a kid less then 2. 

I am trying to be her therapist but I am human and I have needs. They make it difficult to help her and still feel satisfied in the marriage. makes it very difficult cause I don't feel what she does. 

K- If I had this wisdom all along I wouldn't be here..  I wouldn't have gone through this 2 times now.. I just took time to listen. Read and learn what's going on..


----------



## knortoh

me - I am too angry at my H to listen to him anymore - in fact listening to him hurts me badly - my determination is to survive and have a great and happy life with my beautiful boys - 
you know LH when my H was still here we were 'talking' one night as you do when your world is crumbling and I said 
I am going to be fine - I can see myself in the future and the boys and I are in a happy place - 
my H said mournfully "I want to be there"....what a loser he was there ...


----------



## Loving Husband

anger=in love.. Your angry at your situation. Your angry he doesn't get it. Your angry your kids are suffering for no reason but selfish.. Your husband doesn't know what he wants.. he wants happiness but doesn't know how to find it.. He probably does want it with you but doesn't think that can happen. That is very frustrating. I know my wife has felt like that with me and our family. That she doesn't know if we will ever find the peace we are looking for. This is why Florida is going to happen. She wants a life altering change. I have told her for years we needed to do this. It was time to stop building and start reaping. We have a lot of money tied up in this house.. We are house poor. Once we sell we are going to be well off. At least until kids college.


----------



## knortoh

Perfect - sell the house and take more holidays ! 
I'd do anything like that if my H was back - anything - it's just a house - it don't mean anything - 
you are perceptive as always - he probably does want it with me but doesn't think it is possible - 
and nothing I can do to change that - those fatalistic lenses he wears are too pwerful...


----------



## Loving Husband

Once it's up I'll post the link so you can see the mess of a house we own.  Naa seriously it's a great house and very big but my wife is a pack rat and since i lost the job that built it we were unable to put the stuff inside we wanted too. We did a decent job but it still needs a LOT more.. Too much for us here.. My job won't provide it..


----------



## knortoh

sounds sensible LH


----------



## Loving Husband

My wife is still under extreme pressure and stress from life. Right now it's when I will transfer and move down to Florida and also the house up for sale and that for her is major cause people walk through judging her and with he low self esteem we know thats a problem. I got to be at work VERY early. Like 5am. Not fun. Last night we were to be close but that didn't work. She got in her funk and forgot I need to go to bed early. Due to all the different issues she snaped a bit. Since now I am a time issue for her anything I want is more pressure on her. I don't try to be but I guess my high drive can be a burden. She said I don't give her the chance to want to do anything cause I ask from her all the time. I know I have a high sexual drive and I said that's me. Nothing I can do.. She asked if it was on my mind 24/7. I said well I am a guy and from what I have seen any guy with a decent high testoserone level will be like that. She said her drive is high too though everything else effects her and that ends it.. After talking a bit more she said my drive wouldn't be a problem if the stress from everything else wasn't there. She is also very nervous watching son after he bumped head and bleed like crazy a few days ago.. She ends up taking a xanax more often.. I will try and get my mom to watch my kids one weekend day. See if that helps and she should go to Monday night football.. I guess I want that great connection so bad that its not easy with all the pressure she holds in. Got to keep woring at it..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well next step in happiness has happened. She is stuck with mixed emotions. We signed papers to put house up for sale. She still flip flops in her mind about the unknown. She wants to do Florida but is scared of the unknown. She isn't the type to embrase change. She knows I am here so that helps but it will effect our marriage for sure. I have to keep getting her to focus on US. That the rest will happen. So now the wheels are motion to finally reaping the rewards of my 15 years of planing. A little disappointing we might get a little less then we wanted but I already planned for worst.. her issues this week was with the house and moving. It's rough trying to keep her focused on me and the kids.. She is so emotional about every change..


----------



## Loving Husband

Well the battle of depression continues but she does see it better now. Still no where near there as this is work but it's all about her and no longer me. House still not ready for sale but is being worked on.. Up for sale though but the holidays going to make it tough. She has gotten out a lot more then she has in the past and I think sees it has nothing to do with me stopping her. Though she has invaded my Monday nights with the softball guys and has come 3 of the 4 last weeks. It's ok I don't mind and if she is having fun which she says she is then that makes me happy.


----------



## Corpuswife

You are a caring husband LH. So kind and patient. Many folks are like your wife...not liking change. If it will give you both a chance to work less or be financially better then it's a good move (stress wife).


----------



## Loving Husband

It's very hard and I slip a lot. Looking for anything from her. She has promised me never to go through this again and to love us first. Still words are words and the actions I would like to see follow. Still all the time I point out how she is fist in my life with EVERYTHING I do.. Even down to the littlest detail and I know she is grateful for it. She says she will get there eventually. Still at times I have told her I feel like a servant and thats a tough feeling. Hard to continue to love without asking for return. She has set backs all the time.. Days will go by and she gets in these moods.. Then I have to try and bring her out. She admitted she needs meds but we can't afford them currently.. Hopefully once we move it will be easier to afford..


----------

