# Bringing up painful words/actions of the Evil Twin



## Neverwouldhave guessed (May 5, 2010)

For the "experts" out there-

I have very calmly asked my H a few questions about some _very_ painful things that he said/did when his Evil Twin was visiting - while the affair was in full swing. There are about five instances where what was said/done was so over the top is was truly shocking. We have been together 23 years (married 21), and of course during that time we both have said things in the heat of an argument that were hurtful, but I cannot think of a single instance where we did not apologize within a day or so. I realize (and he is beginning to) that there were other actions that we did not see that, over time, broke down the marriage.

However, I am talking about *crazy, crazy *stuff (e.g., "My mom has _always_ hated you" - I already knew that, but did he have to say it? What was to be gained by saying anything so nasty?) Anyway, when I have mentioned these instances, he acts as though I am nuts. Like I am making it up. I almost think he really does not remember saying this kind of stuff. Could he really not remember?? Should I leave this stuff alone?? I'm not really sure there is a purpose anymore to mentioning them. I try to only bring them up once, but I see that it really is not getting me anything but frustration - just thinking maybe he has total self-induced amnesia.

We both want things to work out, have been intimate within the past week for the first time in (get this) 18 months, and are making plans for him to move back home (been gone 11 months.) Could he really not remember this stuff????


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm no expert just a guy and when W brings up the mean and hurtful things I have said/done, I too say "I don't remember".
I beleive I do this because I know they were hurtful and it pains me to bring somethings back up. 
Its dumb behavior on my part, but thats just my guy thing.


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## yogachick (Aug 9, 2010)

NWHG,

Sounds like "affair fog" BUT...If he really does not remember that could be a mental health issue. My husband functions in society quite smoothly because he keeps everything "business like" and brief. He is however seriously mentally ill and two therapists have suggested he may have a dissociative disorder. You would never know it unless you got to know him very very well. Good luck with the "evil twin" aka "THE IMPOSTER"!!!

LOTS OF LOVE, Yogachick <3


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

My H also says he does not remember the horrible things he said to me when the evil twin. He told me, "I probably just said it to hurt you". He seems to not remember even acting differently during that time.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

yogachick said:


> ...If he really does not remember that could be a mental health issue. ...


I'm no expert but the most hurtful thing anyone ever said to me was the day when my father was diagnosed with cancer and my mother said it was my fault he developed cancer (he has since died). She vehemently denies ever having said that; like her memory has been wiped. I have only realised recently that she has a Personality Disorder and that such selective memory loss/denial is a trait of the disorder (details are in my thread "Elderly Mother Conflict"). 

On the other hand, as "the guy" says, your husband may remember but just doesn't know how to explain/justify the behaviour - so simply says he cannot remember to kill the conversation. 

I _LIKE _to think that I am the type of person who will hold may hands up/own up if confronted with a truth. Conversely, I'm afraid this means I cannot stand people who will not own up. Makes me loose all respect for them and for me it just adds insult to injury when they insult my intelligence in this way.


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## LuvMyH (Nov 11, 2009)

NWHG, thank you for posting about this. I wondered if I was the only one experiencing it. On the rare occasions I bring up my H's words or actions that occured during the bad times, he vehemently denies them. "If I said that, it must've been to hurt you.", "That never happened!",etc. It's so frustrating. I've forgiven him and we're so much happier now, but sometimes, I still need to talk about how I feel about everything that's come to light. He just can't seem to help me with that.

I don't think it's just the "fog". I think now that we've found our way back to each other, he can not cope with the thought that he was capable of being so hurtful and selfish. He will say that he's made a lot of mistakes and he's sorry for everything, but he can not discuss specific incidents. In a way, it's like he traumatized himself with his behavior and he just wants to bury it all and never look at it again.

I understand because I wasn't a good wife to him before and during that time and I don't like to think of the things I did and said that were wrong. Even though I never cheated, there were mistakes made by me that make me feel awful when I think of them. 

I thought that him not owning up to everything was just a matter of dishonesty, but lately, I've started to see it as a symptom of trauma. Is that possible?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm sorry... I understand the concept and all but adults should be held accountable for their actions. Not saying you have to hold every single thing over your spouse's head, but this "evil twin" business is a little ridiculous to me. Especially depending on the length of time this person has been acting a certain way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

People say things in fights all the time that they don't remember - when emotions are running amok, it is quite easy to spit out whatever enters your head. And it is also common for a person to remember the _gist_ of what was said, but not the exact verbiage. I'm pretty sure everyone has done that once or twice in their lives.

For Blue Moon - the "Evil Twin" idea in no way excuses a person from personal responsibility. It is a means of describing the way a spouse becomes something other than they normally are when the 'buzz' of the affair is in full swing.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Him saying that his Mother always hated you is just another way for him to "justify" his behavior. Unless he has some true personality behavior disorder (i.e Schizophrenia) there is little chance that he doesn't remember. 
There is no such thing as self enduced amnesia. That would imply that he could will his brain to forget. There are diseases that can do this to the human brain but the brain does not willingly deteriorate on its own accord. 
He is your garden variety cheater who doesn't want to "remember" what he did to you. I agree with Tanelornpete in that people argue and don't always remember what is said at that very moment but the remember the gist of it. You mentioned that he looked at you like you were crazy. He remembers and I wouldn't "leave this stuff alone". He NEEDS to be held accountable for his actions. Well that's just me.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Blue Moon said:


> I'm sorry... I understand the concept and all but adults should be held accountable for their actions. Not saying you have to hold every single thing over your spouse's head, but this "evil twin" business is a little ridiculous to me. Especially depending on the length of time this person has been acting a certain way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know what? I believe we agree. When a person is an adult they should be personally responsible for their words and actions. This is why vows are serious. This is also why disloyal spouses return to reconciliation with some agreed up limitations such as "access to all accounts..." BUT oddly enough your very reply actually sort of answers both the "Evil Twin" theory and the "Bringing Up Painful Words/Actions" question. 

The Evil Twin is just a concept and we have to give it some name that people can identify. We could call it "Alien Abduction" if that suits you better! LOL :lol: But the idea is that when a person goes through life for 12, 15, 20 or sometimes even 30 years and their entire character the whole time is one way...and then the affair occurs and they act in a way that is entirely outside of their character...THAT is "Evil Twin." That means that for 15 or 20 years the wife or husband in the affair was honest, hard working, happy, enjoying time with the kids, taking vacations, living life a certain way. Usually people do not "fake it" for 15 to 20 years, so it seems somewhat reasonable to think that their 15 to 20 years is their true character...the person that they REALLY are (or what they're really like).

However, during the affair, the person whose real nature was honesty will become dishonest, the person whose real nature was hardworking will get a severe entitlement attitude, the person whose real nature was happy will have "never been happy or in love," and the person who previously was a great parent and loved their kids would be more than willing to hurt them and give them up to be with their lover. Thus, the person who carries on the affair is not the real nature from 15 to 20 years and so we call it the Evil Twin! 

And actually that answers the second part of this question too. Since you brought up this topic, I have been trying to remember myself and discussed it at some length with Tanelorn, and to my mind, it seems that when a person is actively engaged in an affair, it is very muchso like when you are in a big fight, just enraged, and things just come out of your mouth. Normally you might not be a very angry person or abusive; normally you cruise through life doing your job being a spouse and parent...and then the fight comes up and buttons are pushed that really hurt and make you defensive. What happens? Things come out of our mouth that EVEN AT THE TIME you think to yourself, "OMG did I just say that out loud?" Some people call names, cuss like a sailor, and say the meanest most foul things during a fight, and it's not a pattern or really in their character. Once they calm down, do they remember it? 

Maybe...sort of. You do remember that you said some mean things. You may remember the exact words you said but usually you don't really mean it and you didn't start the night intending to say it and it's not really even like you to say stuff like that! So you might remember "Wow I do remember saying some really hurtful stuff" and not exactly remember what you said...the exact words. Then when you HEAR the exact words, it is so shocking and so unlike the real you that your first response is something like, "I would NEVER say something like that!" 

But you did. 

And if it's a person who already has some trouble admitting they were wrong, or a person who has some issues with pride or ego--they might decide to sort of defend that position! Or some part of them remember how horrible they were and they can not even face themselves, much less you. I still personally think that if a person is having an affair, and they really do say those horrible things, they should still be held accountable for their choices; and a much better way to deal with it is to say "I honestly do not remember saying those kinds of words to you, but I do remember being very self-centered and so blind that I could see how I'd act very selfishly and not even think of you or the kids." Fact is, when you commit adultery, there is some reasonable time that you have to "pay the price" and prove yourself! Nothing wrong with that!

I also think it would be nice if the loyal spouse presented the painful words/actions in a WTFS (that's "When you... I think... I feel... So I'd like to ask if you'd...) because when you're faced with being horrible, it's really helpful to have someone tell you what you can do to help fix it. Also it's nice if the loyal spouse can bring up ONE painful word/action at a time so it's not the Spanish Inquisition. 

Anyway I hope that helps!


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