# Are you down with the BPD?



## pidge70

While the title is tongue in cheek, it seems there is a BPD phenomenon running rampant on this forum. Another poster and I spoke on the phone about this. While I have no doubt as to BPD being prevalent, it seems it is now the "en vogue" thing now. 

So many people on here are so quick to diagnose their spouses with something to explain away irrational behavior. IMO, some people are just screwed up and by trying to label them with something you are trying to justify their bad behavior. 

I suppose thinking your spouse has a personality disorder might help in some way but, ultimately the decision to stay and deal with such a person is up to you. *Most * BPD'ers will *never* seek the help they need nor will they ever be *cured*.

Not really expecting many responses on this post, just something that has been on my mind for awhile.


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## pidge70

Amyd said:


> You are so off base but that's OK. BPD has gotten a bad name in the media. How many people with BPD do you know?


Me for one.


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## pidge70

While I thank you for your response, I have a firm grasp of my disorder.


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## thunderstruck

pidge70 said:


> So many people on here are so quick to diagnose their spouses with something to explain away irrational behavior. IMO, some people are just screwed up and by trying to label them with something you are trying to justify their bad behavior.


I've noticed this as well, and I went down that path with my W. I still think there is a possibility that she's a high-functioning BPD, but I'll never know. Maybe it doesn't really matter, b/c she has a number of issues, and all I can do is work on how I interact with her. That would include laying down rock solid boundaries, and knowing when it's time to end this.

Pidge, thanks for sharing your knowledge here.:smthumbup:


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## COGypsy

An MRI study doesn't provide any conclusive evidence that BPD could be a biologically based disorder rather than a personality disorder. 

Personally, while I have no doubt about the existence of the personality disorder, I agree with pidge and generally think it's become a convenient and trendy catch-all to justify adult erratic a$$holes, much like the all-pervasive ADHD for kids. Great strides have definitely been made in learning more about the actual disorder and the options for treatment are growing all the time, which is great. I just find it odd that so many people are getting "diagnosed" with a disorder that apparently most therapists and doctors won't tell their patients they have???


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## CandieGirl

To be diagnosed by medical professionals, not Forum Members or husbands and wives...or your own self! JMO.


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## pidge70

CandieGirl said:


> To be diagnosed by medical professionals, not Forum Members or husbands and wives...or your own self! JMO.


I agree with this for the most part. The posters I am aware of have not tried to diagnose just give an awareness of what could be the problem. Everyone exhibits BPD traits at one point or another. Whether or not they are at a diagnostic level though can only be determined by a professional.

FTR, I did NOT diagnose myself. I was diagnosed 7yrs ago by a psychiatrist after his observation of me and my taking the MMPI and the MMPI II.


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## pidge70

Amyd said:


> The "don't tell the borderline" thinking is changing. For one, in the DSM 5 the disorder will probably be move from Axis II to Axis I which infers it's treatable. But no matter what Axis it's on, it's treatable. Hard to treat but can be done.


Treat being the operative word. There is no cure.


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## Almostrecovered

Yeah you know me


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## Almostrecovered

I think many posters here get BPD mixed up with CBS (crazy b!tch syndrome)


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## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> Yeah you know me


Say what?


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## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> I think many posters here get BPD mixed up with CBS (crazy b!tch syndrome)


:rofl: I should probably be offended but, I'm not.


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## Almostrecovered

pidge70 said:


> Say what?


thought the title was a parody of the song "You down with OPP?"


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## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> thought the title was a parody of the song "You down with OPP?"


Duh on me.....lol I blame missing that on the brain surgery. You are in fact correct as that is where I got the title idea. I didn't realize you were a Naughty by Nature fan.


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## pidge70

Amyd said:


> BPD isn’t a straight forward diagnosis; there are many factors involved. One doesn’t go from having the disorder to healing easily. Many years of pathological living creates someone who’s self-destructive. IMO not everything about BPD is bad. Those who have this disorder can be creative, intelligent, witty and kind. It’s the loneliness, impulsiveness and past traumas that make dealing with the disorder difficult.


I am aware of this. One of the great things about being a "self aware" BPD'er is indeed my awareness.


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## Mavash.

Almostrecovered said:


> I think many posters here get BPD mixed up with CBS (crazy b!tch syndrome)


Well they are alike. There is no cure for that either.


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## Mavash.

Amyd said:


> Yep. I definitely can be described as a crazy ***** sometimes but it doesn't feel good: it feels out of control and hurtful.


I'm over that now. I can laugh at myself. I say I'm adoringly neurotic. However I have spent 4 years in therapy learning to just get through the day without wanting to run someone over so that helps. LOL


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## Almostrecovered

well the point I was making with my joke was that too many posters are too quick to leap to the BPD diagnosis after hearing a one sided account of someone's behavior.


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## YinPrincess

Almostrecovered said:


> well the point I was making with my joke was that too many posters are too quick to leap to the BPD diagnosis after hearing a one sided account of someone's behavior.


So true. I have noticed this as well and honestly, it gets a little annoying. 

Part of me thinks I "used" to be BPD, but given that they usually don't evolve into an awareness like Pidge, I'm skeptical of that now. I started changing my behaviors before therapy. Hell, even before I got married.

So maybe I'm just batsh!t. LoL!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> well the point I was making with my joke was that too many posters are too quick to leap to the BPD diagnosis after hearing a one sided account of someone's behavior.


I agree with you on the one sided point. To be fair though, BPD'ers are very manipulative. Even if we heard the other person's side, we still wouldn't know the truth. Unless we were observing the conditions inside the home would we even begin to see what an OP sees? Honestly, I don't know that I would immediately think someone was a fellow BPD'er or just a b!tch/azzhole.


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## Mavash.

For me the key is when I hear about their childhood. If they've had trauma that led to this type behavior then I think it makes it a high probability that they are in fact BPD. And sadly I don't think it takes much trauma to cause this either.


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## pidge70

Mavash. said:


> For me the key is when I hear about their childhood. If they've had trauma that led to this type behavior then I think it makes it a high probability that they are in fact BPD. And sadly I don't think it takes much trauma to cause this either.


Gotta love the childhood trauma. Thanks mom and dad!


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## pidge70

Amyd said:


> The sensitivity of the borderline brain makes it difficult to deal with uncomfortable situations. Plus, once traumatized the brain has a hard time adjusting itself back (emotional dysregualtion). Theres tons of research on this which I've immersed myself in for the past year.


No doubt. Trying to "rewire" one's brain is an arduous process.


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## Almostrecovered

pidge70 said:


> No doubt. Trying to "rewire" one's brain is an arduous process.



this explains the scars!! you cracked your head open and had a peek


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## argyle

...dunno...practically every mental disorder has the same problem.* The disorders mostly don't seem to exist in a binary fashion - it is just a matter of setting a threshold on a continuous 'how crazy are you' variable for diagnostic purposes. (That said, true crazy usually seems to involve positive feedback - so breaking that feedback loop often helps more than you'd expect.) (For evidence, look at the changes in DSM V.)

I think there's some merit in being aware of your spouse's personality. (what crazy are they?) As personality disorders and autism don't respond much to drugs...a spouse is mostly limited to changing their own behavior to adapt to the their partner's crazy.

Even though there is a lot of merit to the 'healthy behavior is healthy behavior' thesis, there are a broad range of healthy behaviors - some of which will work better depending on your spouse's personality. So, yep, figuring out if your spouse has traits characteristic of BPD - whether or not they actually have the disorder - can be helpful. As an example, a BPD spouse may react very well to validation...while an autistic spouse may meltdown because you're using too many words.) My opinion is that reading a few books and trying stuff at random is likely to be more effective than focusing on any particular trait group.

Also, there's some merit in gauging how crazy your spouse is. For an extreme example, consider MOSIAC threat assessment. (Online test that estimates the odds that your spouse will kill you at any given time. One acquaintance took it...moved abruptly with no forwarding address.) Hopefully more practically, many people in poor R/S aren't particularly aware of 'normal', and getting a baseline is also handy.

...in terms of nature versus nuture...separated twin studies have given a decent answer...about 50%. In practice, most MRI studies I have seen are fairly ambiguous in terms of causality. It appears that the physical structure of the brain changes behavior and that behavior changes the physical structure of the brain. For those seeking to change themselves, it may be best to think of the glass as being half full. Hard work and discipline are likely to change your brain.

--Argyle
*In terms of over-diagnosis, I suspect that BPD-tendencies are overdiagnosed as BPD, but that they tend to be problematic enough that some treatment is a great thing. I suspect that diagnosable BPD/NPDs tend to be underdiagnosed. (I know some insanely hateful women who show all the BPD traits and who are undiagnosed in their 70s. Their daughters are similar.)


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## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> this explains the scars!! you cracked your head open and had a peek


 You are a "funny" little turtle.......:rofl:


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I don't concern myself with someone's dx. What matters to me is how they can relate to me. Some folks make an effort to manage whatever their dx or emotional state is so that they can effectively and meaningfully relate to others. The experience of me plus the other person plus the environment we're in, is what matters to me, if that is a good thing, or leaves something to be desired.

Someone can have a trivial issue that causes really big problems...because they see it as trivial themselves and don't realize what a large effect it has on their relationship space...and someone can have a serious issue, that they manage very well, and thus have a great relationship space, whatever that is...friend, acquaintance, etc.

It's more about what they bring to the table, than what goes on in the kitchen.


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## that_girl

My therapist said BPD needs to be diagnosed. She said I teetered on it but it was more for defense rather than a disorder. Which I did work through. She was a behavioral psychotherapist and specialized in behavior issues. lol. We did a lot of deep therapy and it was hard...and it sucked. But I got a grasp on myself and no longer express those BPD traits.

It's like at work, parents are always telling me their children are ADD or ADHD. Um...has a doctor said that? No? cause I bet they are just CHILDREN. Children are ADD by nature :rofl: And hyper. Some people are just a-holes. There's not always a disorder/syndrome to blame.


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## argyle

...some things to be careful of...

In practice, 'personality disorders' are fairly squidgy. (Which is one reason DSM V is moving towards lumping them together.) So, something like 30% of BPDs have co-morbid NPD. It is probably clearer to think of someone as having a personality disorder with traits XYZ.

Also, in my experience (and the experience of a few others), high sensitivity autistic women can exhibit a lot of BPD traits. I suspect (but have no real basis) that a significant fraction of people with BPD diagnosis are at least mildly autistic and vice-versa. Something a lot of people don't realize is that about 30% of people diagnosed with autism are highly sensitive people. So, not like Spock. More like someone with a gag on their mouth, who sees everything in black and white, is out-of-touch with their emotions, has really high anxiety, and tends to meltdown and start hitting things when frustrated.

...eg...my wife was diagnosed BPD, but with extremely low empathy. And she can't multitask, has mild sensory overload, communication issues, and really odd ritualistic behavior as a child. Kind of a neurotic female version of Data from Star Trek. Or, Rudy Simone (Aspie author), who apparently was diagnosed bipolar and institutionalized for a while. Or, the lady from an Asperger's support groups who seriously resembles my wife and is also in DBT. Or Penelope Trunk (see blog.)

The bright side is that the same sort of therapy is recommended for both groups...more or less - so misdiagnosis probably doesn't matter that much. The dark side is that at least some of those people are confused by parts of the BPD diagnosis. (And sitting in group feeling nothing in common with 'those silly emotional women.') My wife, at least, has been making more rapid adjustments since she figured out the Aspie thing - and coping techniques for Aspie women have had noticeable effectiveness on some of our more stubborn issues. I dunno, but I suspect autistic traits might be somewhat common in women with BPD diagnoses - and some of those traits may be more easily addressed when people are aware of them.*

The characteristics I've noticed (relative to very peripheral observation of more 'typical' BPDs)...a strange innocence (Oh....aigh...I just realized that all those men I dated probably wanted to sleep with me.)...extreme unempathetic honesty...atypical female violence (jumping in front of a tractor...threatening policemen...baseball bats)...lengthy monologues...unreasonable fear of people (did I offend him?)...weird conversational patterns.

...I am very far from an expert...but I've found limited support for this guess in the medical literature. (One paper indicating that autism predisposed people to BPD-like traits. I take that with a grain of salt...publication pressure is so fierce nowadays that you can find a paper indicating practically anything.) 

--Argyle
*Or, to put it another way, maybe some of our MCs would have been better able to control their temper's if they'd been aware that my wife was having genuine comprehension issues instead of faking misunderstanding to divert the conversation.


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## ScarletBegonias

pidge70 said:


> While the title is tongue in cheek, it seems there is a BPD phenomenon running rampant on this forum. Another poster and I spoke on the phone about this. While I have no doubt as to BPD being prevalent, it seems it is now the "en vogue" thing now.
> 
> So many people on here are so quick to diagnose their spouses with something to explain away irrational behavior. IMO, some people are just screwed up and by trying to label them with something you are trying to justify their bad behavior.
> 
> I suppose thinking your spouse has a personality disorder might help in some way but, ultimately the decision to stay and deal with such a person is up to you. *Most * BPD'ers will *never* seek the help they need nor will they ever be *cured*.
> 
> Not really expecting many responses on this post, just something that has been on my mind for awhile.


Have I told you lately that I <3 you?


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## pidge70

ScarletBegonias said:


> Have I told you lately that I <3 you?


Awwww, I <3 you too!


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## ScarletBegonias

awww warm and fuzzy BPD'ers


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## pidge70

ScarletBegonias said:


> awww warm and fuzzy BPD'ers


:rofl: Is that allowed?


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## ScarletBegonias

pidge70 said:


> :rofl: Is that allowed?


well sh*t,ya know I just don't know:scratchhead:

LOL


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## pidge70

ScarletBegonias said:


> well sh*t,ya know I just don't know:scratchhead:
> 
> LOL


We are probably just bi and don't know it. I shall refrain from trying to influence your sexuality......


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## ScarletBegonias

pidge70 said:


> We are probably just bi and don't know it. I shall refrain from trying to influence your sexuality......


yeah you keep your influences to yourself there missy!there will be no gay beach attendance for this one! *adjusting my halo*

 sexy b**ch


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## pidge70

ScarletBegonias said:


> yeah you keep your influences to yourself there missy!there will be no gay beach attendance for this one! *adjusting my halo*
> 
> sexy b**ch


I'm just having a MLC. That reminds me, I need to shave and put on some sexy panties.......:rofl:


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I dunno, I finished therapy, in fact got kicked out of it for overstaying my welcome. I take an Rx that's good for neurotransmitters, sedation (mild effect during the day as I take it at night), and also functions as an antihistamine and remedy for short-term memory loss (something to do with neurotransmitters.) I have no dx, but I get my care from the V.A and they don't need a dx. I only see a nurse now to have blood tests and check for side effects of the Rx. 

One thing from therapy I can not even force myself to be co-dependent. If I shouldn't be doing something for someone, I now feel absolutely no inclination to lift a finger. I might even say something empathetic, like, yah, I know how it feels when sh*t piles up and you have to dig yourself out...that makes it clear that I'm on vaca, and people need to take care of their own stuff, themselves, unless they are really in deep kimshi and have to ask/beg for help (and are doing everything they can to help themselves...) 

I also have pretty good boundaries now. That guy I dated once who grabbed for my popcorn...and texted me while I was working after I told him I didn't text while working...he's history. He made it to one date, I was pretty much done with him halfway through. I notice a lot more when I'm irritated with someone now.

I also notice when I click with someone. 

Really, I do think it's all about relationship space, and also how you treat yourself...if you get along okay and don't shoot yourself in the foot and don't have too many o-c behaviors, life is pretty good.


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## sandc

pidge70 said:


> We are probably just bi and don't know it. I shall refrain from trying to influence your sexuality......


I am now officially interested in this thread.


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## sandc

By the way, I might have BBPD because I border on having all the symptoms of BPD.


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## MrsOldNews

.....accidental post sorry.


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## pidge70

I do so love seeing people diagnose themselves with BPD.....lol Like I said, it is "hip" now.


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## that_girl

I'm down with OPP.

Yea, you know me.


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## dark side king

So is the opinion here that BPD traits may crest during seasons of one's life?


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## Uptown

dark side king said:


> So is the opinion here that BPD traits may crest during seasons of one's life?


DarkSide, there is growing evidence that the traits are the worst at puberty and subside somewhat by 18, at which time they level off. Then, it is believed, they subside a little more at about age 44. See, e.g., the 2008 study results at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions. The result is that there is much ballyhoo about BPD not being as "chronic" as previously thought. Well, that certainly is good news for the BPDers.

Yet, from the point of view of a "Non" having to deal with all the abuse, I don't think that "mellowing" gives much relief to the abused spouses. For one thing, does it really matter that a BPDer drops from meeting 100% of the diagnostic criteria to meeting only 80% or 90% of the criteria? 

To the _statisticians_, this improvement means A LOT because, given the absurd binary system now being used for diagnosis, the implication is that lots of people have switched from the "has BPD" category to the "has no BPD" category in their old age. To the _abused spouses,_ however, this improvement may mean only a reduction in temper tantrums from once every two weeks to once every two-and-a-half weeks. The misery index, then, barely changes. (What makes a radical change to the misery index is when that 1% of BPDers work hard in therapy, as Pidge and other BPDers on this forum have done.)

Another thing that bothers me about these studies is that I've never seen a distinction made between the BPDers who are _high functioning_ and those that are _low functioning._ This is troubling because, if nearly all the improvements are being made by low functioning people who are becoming high functioning, there may be little or no improvement happening with the folks who were high functioning to begin with. 

This is troubling for two reasons. One is that we Nons would not date the low functioning BPDers, much less marry them. Hence, if we are married to a BPDer spouse -- as I was for 15 years -- she is _already_ high functioning. So our lives will not improve AT ALL if the improvements are generally being made by only the low functioning BPDers. 

The other reason it is troubling is that, because LF BPDers are in such severe pain, they are far more willing to seek help and work hard to make improvements. In contrast, HF BPDers are extremely resistant to therapy and rarely have the self awareness to even acknowledge having the issues. For these reasons, I remain very skeptical that an abused spouse is going to see any substantial improvement when his BPDer partner reaches middle age. 

Certainly, I didn't even though I spent a small fortune taking my BPDer exW to a team of psychologists and MCs for weekly visits for 15 years. At the end, she had me arrested and thrown into jail on a bogus charge of "brutalizing her." If you would like to read about some of my experiences with a middle-age "improved and mellowed" BPDer, please see my post in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.


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## dark side king

I have begun to push back against her skewed sense of logic, and hope to bring a bit of balance for a few days. I know, silly approach, but I'm trying to stem this tide enough to focus the energy in healthier directions


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## ScarletBegonias

pidge70 said:


> I do so love seeing people diagnose themselves with BPD.....lol Like I said, it is "hip" now.


I seriously will never understand why people want to do that.If you're a woman and you self diagnose yourself as BPD,whatever man finds out about it will make sure you're forever labeled as that crazy chick he'll never want to date.

Don't self diagnose,people.Get thee to therapy.


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## Mavash.

I don't think BPD is hip at all. I've never been officially diagnosed with it but reading about it is like looking in a mirror. My therapist put ptsd with anxiety on the insurance form I think its just because she had to put 'something' there. So many things fit with me that she could have picked anything really. I was that messed up.

I call myself BPD here only because it resonates and then people know what the old me was like before 4 years of therapy. PTSD with anxiety just doesn't quite cover the magnitude of my craziness. LOL


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## pidge70

Mavash. said:


> I don't think BPD is hip at all. I've never been officially diagnosed with it but reading about it is like looking in a mirror. My therapist put ptsd with anxiety on the insurance form I think its just because she had to put 'something' there. So many things fit with me that she could have picked anything really. I was that messed up.
> 
> I call myself BPD here only because it resonates and then people know what the old me was like before 4 years of therapy. PTSD with anxiety just doesn't quite cover the magnitude of my craziness. LOL


You know thought that a therapist/psychiatrist is very unlikely to state BPD as most insurance companies will not pay for that diagnosis.


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## Mavash.

pidge70 said:


> You know thought that a therapist/psychiatrist is very unlikely to state BPD as most insurance companies will not pay for that diagnosis.


I've heard that. PTSD is probably covered so she puts that on there instead. My insurance pays for that. I don't give a crap what the diagnosis was I'm just glad I'm better now.


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## pidge70

Mavash. said:


> I've heard that. PTSD is probably covered so she puts that on there instead. My insurance pays for that. I don't give a crap what the diagnosis was I'm just glad I'm better now.


I'm glad you're better as well....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash.

I've tried so many times to explain to my husband what this feels like to no avail. He never understood what it truly feels like to have crazy thoughts, out of control mood swings and to be in constant emotional pain. To feel truly crazy at times. 

He also doesn't fully understand what it takes to keep this at bay either. As so many people say there is no cure for this it's only managed. Every day this gets easier but the crazy thoughts still pop up and I have to deal with them. Talk myself down, remind myself of the truth and that everything is in fact okay.


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## ScarletBegonias

Mavash. said:


> I've tried so many times to explain to my husband what this feels like to no avail. He never understood what it truly feels like to have crazy thoughts, out of control mood swings and to be in constant emotional pain. To feel truly crazy at times.
> 
> He also doesn't fully understand what it takes to keep this at bay either. As so many people say there is no cure for this it's only managed. Every day this gets easier but the crazy thoughts still pop up and I have to deal with them. Talk myself down, remind myself of the truth and that everything is in fact okay.


That's the hardest part it seems.Getting people to understand the depth of what you go through daily.

My ex used to say "oh sweetie that's everyone at times.don't let a doctor label you with some crazy disorder when you're just normal!!"

 I'm still amazed at his reaction.


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## Twofaces

I think unless your diagnosed by a psychiatrist after a very thorough vetting, its hogwash. I also say to every woman aged 38 - 55........... MENOPAUSE. Its most likely the issue. Probably 98% of the s/x are the same. Just something to think about


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## ScarletBegonias

Twofaces said:


> I think unless your diagnosed by a psychiatrist after a very thorough vetting, its hogwash. I also say to every woman aged 38 - 55........... MENOPAUSE. Its most likely the issue. Probably 98% of the s/x are the same. Just something to think about


This has to be a joke.


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## Mavash.

ScarletBegonias said:


> That's the hardest part it seems.Getting people to understand the depth of what you go through daily.
> 
> My ex used to say "oh sweetie that's everyone at times.don't let a doctor label you with some crazy disorder when you're just normal!!"
> 
> I'm still amazed at his reaction.


I've had to accept the fact that my husband will never truly understand what I go through daily. He's made some insensitive comments over the years too. Didn't understand why I couldn't just "get over it" and you know be happy. Right like it's so easy. LOL

He's better now and does acknowledge how hard I've worked and when the opportunity presents itself I tell him the crazy thoughts that are in my head like how I just had to talk myself out of anxiety over seeing chairs not lined up perfectly or how I felt when he left me to go to the store.

This is far from normal. LOL


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## Twofaces

ScarletBegonias said:


> This has to be a joke.


No, it is not a joke. Do some research. If you truly have BPD, i empathize. 

But no, its not a joke. Menopause and peri menopause are very real and debilitating and can mimic other conditions.


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## Twofaces

Amyd said:


> At 26 I swallowed two packs of sleeping pills because my boyfriend didn't call me back.
> 
> ...just something to think about.




Im very sorry. Im glad you pulled through. Please note, i said for women aged 38-55. The symptoms a lot of us experience are astonishing. And like someone said, if you dont experience it, you cant possibly understand. 

I am in no way diminishing anyone with BPD or any other brain disorder. I have a great amount of empathy for all. I only wanted to point out that if you suddenly begin experiencing things around peri or meno age, its worth looking into. 

No offense or belittling or diminishing anyones experience intended. I hope you will see that was not my intent. 

Again, i am glad you pulled through.


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## Ostera

When my wife and I went to counseling I told the counselor I thought she was bi-polar. Counselor said no, probably borderline. My wife has never had stable relationships, has cheated on every man she has been with. Has huge anxiety, wakes up nightly to panic attacks and can't breath, has grandious thoughts. She often relates our marriage to some old romantic movie. She was shot when she was 27 while bartending. Has a very sensitive personality and is easily offended. I think she also has symptoms of NPD. She never apoligizes. When I ask her apologize she comes back with, "I've already forgiven myself." She openly says, "It's all about me." With our relationship issues. She constantly insults me and gives me ultimatums. She threatens to leave me (she actaully did 2 months ago) if I don't meet all her demands.


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## pidge70

So you've been diagnosed now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias

Amyd said:


> I've explained to you the situation. Plus, you have access to my blog. If you want to believe I'm not borderline because I was never "officially" been given the label then that is your right.


I can't speak for Pidge but I don't think her question was because she doesn't believe you or whatever. I think she was genuinely curious with no underhanded motives for asking.

I know it's hard not to be defensive but the ladies who have commented here are basically in the same boat as you..we're not here to make you feel pushed aside or doubted.


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## Mavash.

Amyd said:


> I so get what you're experiencing. The holiday's are a particularly hard time for me. i'm so clingy right now to my husband...like a tumor.


In addition to the holidays my husband is out of town for ELEVEN WEEKS. Can you only imagine? LOL

He's done really well with keeping in touch with me every few hours but yesterday he didn't and I flipped out. Now let me explain he could have kept in contact but he chose not to. Instead he LIED by omission to me. In case you haven't read about nice guys - they lie a lot to spare your feelings.

I was proud of myself though. We talked about this calmly and I think I finally got through to him how silence = abandonment. Better to take 10 seconds to send me a text every few hours while he's gone (this is a reasonable request given his schedule) than to do what he did yesterday.

Now today I will have to get back grounded. I'm still feeling a bit icky after yesterday.


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## Mavash.

Amyd said:


> The "quiet" borderline (me) unfortunately presents as too calm and reality based.


I can totally relate to this. I dealt with my anger issues early on in therapy so my husband only saw my quiet, calm side so he had no idea the chaos that was still inside me. This is why I've chosen recently to let him in so he can support me the way I need him to.

It's a risk because I feel it makes me needy and weak. I don't for example like admitting that yes I need him to stay in contact every few hours while he's out of town. I think I should be strong enough to stand on my own but sadly I'm not. I can do it yes but not without some anxiety which flows down to my kids. It's just not worth it.


----------



## Mavash.

Amyd said:


> Eleven weeks is eternity in my world; you must be stronger than you realize to be separated from your husband for that length of time. I think a text every few hours is very reasonable.


I just finished therapy so yes I'm stronger now than ever. I just need a text every few hours and I'm good. I cried at least once a day for the first 3 weeks but I've since calmed down. It's almost over now. I leave next Friday to go spend the last week there with him then he will ride back with us. 



> It's scary to "let" yourself be needy but truth is: you're going to be needy anyway; might as well admit to it.


Yes just figured this out. Finally got to where I was willing to admit it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Amyd said:


> I've explained to you the situation. Plus, you have access to my blog. If you want to believe I'm not borderline because I was never "officially" been given the label then that is your right.


BPD Fight!!!


----------



## Mavash.

You crack me up AR. 

When will people learn not to mess with BPD'ers. When I get triggered I could easily kick someone's ass.

.......just kidding. That's the old me.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

LOL @AR

TIMMEH!!!! omg i love that show..it's so mindlessly funny


----------



## pidge70

I don't have a blog and I really wish you would quit pushing yours on my thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

there's only room for one BPD'er in this forum...


----------



## ScarletBegonias

:rofl:


----------



## Almostrecovered

I can't imagine it's going to be very hard to instigate a fight between two BPD'ers


----------



## pidge70

Funny AR.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Almostrecovered said:


> I can't imagine it's going to be very hard to instigate a fight between two BPD'ers


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> I can't imagine it's going to be very hard to instigate a fight between two BPD'ers


She's a "self diagnosed" BPD'er. Not quite the same.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

pidge70 said:


> She's a "self diagnosed" BPD'erWITH A BLOG. Not quite the same.


had to.I sori


----------



## pidge70

I still <3 you.....lol

xxlovexx


----------



## Almostrecovered

pidge70 said:


> Funny AR.



it's okay because once I start to pull away you'll start the love bombs


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Almostrecovered said:


> it's okay because once I start to pull away you'll start the love bombs


omg I'm dying :rofl::rofl::rofl:

someone knows bpd.


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> it's okay because once I start to pull away you'll start the love bombs


Gawd! Why am I friends with you?


----------



## Almostrecovered

crazy likes crazy


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> crazy likes crazy


----------



## ScarletBegonias

There's good crazy and bad crazy.Being unaware of your BPD is bad crazy.Being aware is good crazy bc you get all the passionate,sizzling lover traits AND you're able to talk yourself down from crazytown spirals.


----------



## Almostrecovered

and swimming naked in a public fountain while manic is always a blast


----------



## Mavash.

ScarletBegonias said:


> There's good crazy and bad crazy.Being unaware of your BPD is bad crazy.Being aware is good crazy bc you get all the passionate,sizzling lover traits AND you're able to talk yourself down from crazytown spirals.


Was thinking this very same thing today. BPDers do have passionate, sizzling lover traits. That's the part of me that I've chosen to keep. As long as I talk myself down from those crazytown spirals I'm a fabulous wife, friend, mother, etc. Intense, fun, full of life and passion. Free and alive!!


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> and swimming naked in a public fountain while manic is always a blast


Glad I don't have to worry about that......


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

My relationship with a BPD was the best and worst relationship I've ever had. She was amazing in every way, but when I got close, she seemed to get distant. When I tried to help for our mutual benefit, I was "controlling". I tolerated her moods and jabs because quite simply, I loved being around her... and I became quite good at talking down her up and down episodes. I thought it made me the perfect guy for her. But I always felt insecure... knowing she needed gobs of attention and every guy she met was a potential threat. I became paranoid, with reason... eventually confirming her cheating.

My own problems made things worse of course.

Oh man if I could just relive the fist couple months for the rest of the my life though... I've never fallen so hard for someone.


----------



## pidge70

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> My relationship with a BPD was the best and worst relationship I've ever had. She was amazing in every way, but when I got close, she seemed to get distant. When I tried to help for our mutual benefit, I was "controlling". I tolerated her moods and jabs because quite simply, I loved being around her... and I became quite good at talking down her up and down episodes. I thought it made me the perfect guy for her. But I always felt insecure... knowing she needed gobs of attention and every guy she met was a potential threat. I became paranoid, with reason... eventually confirming her cheating.
> 
> My own problems made things worse of course.
> 
> Oh man if I could just relive the fist couple months for the rest of the my life though... I've never fallen so hard for someone.


That "mirroring" thing we can do is amazing and yet it isn't a good thing.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Almostrecovered said:


> and swimming naked in a public fountain while manic is always a blast


hahaha, my x gf stripped down naked in the passenger seat after one night out. That was interesting.

The days she would slept till 3pm, lie about hanging out with other guys while I was working, or getting with other people when we took "timeouts", or hit or cursed me, not so much.

But wow could she be awesome.


----------



## Mavash.

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Oh man if I could just relive the fist couple months for the rest of the my life though... I've never fallen so hard for someone.
> 
> But wow could she be awesome.


See THIS is what I see in myself now. BPD'ers are quite charming, fun and full of crazy passion. Once I learned how to weed out the bad stuff and just keep my fun side I'm awesome too. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I'm still crazy but now in a good way...a fun way. 

Been married 21 years and I'm back to the free spirit I was when I first started dating my husband. I just had to get back in touch with her. My husband can't get enough of me now.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

pidge70 said:


> That "mirroring" thing we can do is amazing and yet it isn't a good thing.


Yep. Now factor in my being a narcissist and trust me... it eventually deteriorates into a giant chess match of manipulation.

I've since learned that narcissists and borderlines are like matter and anti-matter irresistably drawn to each other with devastating effects.

I made the mistake of thinking I could manage her or provide balance with my heavy rational thinking and lack of emotional swings. I could be her knight in shining armor and help her be the awesome person and avoid the self-destructive one. I came up short. The closer you get, the more you get pushed away. The closer you are to leaving, the more you're pulled back in. "I hate you, don't leave me" ... I didn't get it when my therapist recommended the book... I totally get it now. Unfortunately with a host of other things I'd rather not have learned about first hand, like mirroring and projection.

Worst thing is that BPD is contagious. After awhile, I could see myself exhibiting her behaviors... and I'd wonder later why I did that.

She ate my lunch, but my ego didn't allow it for very long. My only vindication is that she's chewing the new guy up. And yet I still miss her. lol


----------



## pidge70

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Yep. Now factor in my being a narcissist and trust me... it eventually deteriorates into a giant chess match of manipulation.


I can only imagine the intensity of that. Unpleasant I'm sure.


----------



## Twofaces

So, do any of you take meds for bpd? If so what? Or just therapy? Hell, im wondering if im bpd myself........


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

pidge70 said:


> I can only imagine the intensity of that. Unpleasant I'm sure.


Well, let's just say its amazing how quickly I would go from being the most amazing man in the world to satan himself and back again.


----------



## pidge70

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Well, let's just say its amazing how quickly I would go from being the most amazing man in the world to satan himself and back again.


My H knows that feeling well. I was like that for years..not sure why he stayed. He said he stayed because he hoped the "real me" would come back. Slowly but surely I've making progress to normalcy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Well, let's just say its amazing how quickly I would go from being the most amazing man in the world to satan himself and back again.


If I had to pick a most dreaded part of being a bpd'er,the inability to feel the feelings in between love and hate would be the most dreaded.

I couldn't just dislike a part of someone,I had to dislike the ENTIRE someone. Then love them intensely the next day 

Every now and then I'll catch myself doing it and it sucks.That's when I have to sit the person down and explain myself to them,hoping they'll understand and work with me.


----------



## Almostrecovered

just curious if you guys love or hate me today


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

Almostrecovered said:


> just curious if you guys love or hate me today


You are a freakin' nut case!


----------



## Almostrecovered

yeah, and...?


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

That's all.


----------



## Almostrecovered

thank you?


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

Almostrecovered said:


> thank you?


You betcha!


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> just curious if you guys love or hate me today


I'm undecided.......:rofl:


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

pidge70 said:


> I'm undecided.......:rofl:


Pidge i am wondering if you could enlighten me as to how pre menopause can affect BPD symptoms. My stbxw seems to have gone way off the reservation. I stayed for 13 years hoping something would change..it did and not for the better. 5 mos since she asked for D and it has ben a roller coaster. Would love it if you'd take a look at my thread in div/sep and give me your insight.

Thanks so much and congrats on your recovery, from what Ive seen it is rare. kudos to you.

tltl


----------



## Mavash.

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Pidge i am wondering if you could enlighten me as to how pre menopause can affect BPD symptoms.


I had my BPD symptoms under control (for the most part) and then I hit peri menopause. Then suddenly none of my usual coping methods worked. I was losing 2-3 weeks a month to bad moods, moodiness, and anger. I was smart enough not to take my moods out on my husband but it was HARD.

I've read women like me will struggle more with menopause. I sought help with hormone therapy and I'm all better now.


----------



## pidge70

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Pidge i am wondering if you could enlighten me as to how pre menopause can affect BPD symptoms. My stbxw seems to have gone way off the reservation. I stayed for 13 years hoping something would change..it did and not for the better. 5 mos since she asked for D and it has ben a roller coaster. Would love it if you'd take a look at my thread in div/sep and give me your insight.
> 
> Thanks so much and congrats on your recovery, from what Ive seen it is rare. kudos to you.
> 
> tltl


I am 42 now and perimenopausal. I feel I am doing better now than I was before. I was diagnosed when I was 34 as a BPD'er. I was a horrible person before that and after until I hit rock bottom 2yrs ago. I am by no means "normal" yet but, I am doing all I can to reach some semblance of normalcy. 

Thanks for the congrats and kudos.....I'm not fully recovered but, I am "Almostrecovered".


----------



## pidge70

Mavash. said:


> I had my BPD symptoms under control (for the most part) and then I hit peri menopause. Then suddenly none of my usual coping methods worked. I was losing 2-3 weeks a month to bad moods, moodiness, and anger. I was smart enough not to take my moods out on my husband but it was HARD.
> 
> I've read women like me will struggle more with menopause. I sought help with hormone therapy and I'm all better now.


Funny, it is having the opposite effect on me. Then again I am not having any "menopausal" symptoms. The only thing I have going on is a lack of a menstrual cycle.


----------



## Mavash.

My perimenopause didn't start causing me problems until I hit 43 and it got worse until I sought help at 45. I'm 46 now.


----------



## pidge70

My gyno keeps telling me I am too young for menopause....lol I told her she needed to inform my reproductive system because it apparently doesn't realize that.


----------



## Mavash.

My doctor said the same thing. He actually made me cry at my last appointment. He's a stupid man. All he did was hand me a prescription for anti depressants and sent me on my merry way. Evidently he's great for delivering babies and doing pap smears but sucks at menopause issues. I've read it can start as early as in your 30's.


----------



## pidge70

Shoot, mine made me get a biopsy of my uterus done.....good times....lol 

I had my cycle last in April of this year. The last one before that was July of last year. I can only assume that my menstrual cycle is coming to an end.


----------



## Mavash.

I'm jealous. I'm still cycling....every 3 or so effing weeks. Fun fun. NOT!!

My whole life I've had long cycles and now this? Sucks.


----------



## Almostrecovered

pidge70 said:


> i am "almostrecovered".


imposter!!!


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> imposter!!!


:rofl: Sorry!


----------



## Almostrecovered

uh-oh


AR-









Pidge-


----------



## ScarletBegonias

i love how he does the little head nod as he comes around the turn. lalala-lalala so cute


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

ScarletBegonias said:


> i love how he does the little head nod as he comes around the turn. lalala-lalala so cute


The fact that you capture that much detail out of a little animation is just scary...


----------



## Almostrecovered

she also has ADD


----------



## ScarletBegonias

bobka said:


> The fact that you capture that much detail out of a little animation is just scary...


You scare too easy then.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Almostrecovered said:


> she also has ADD


----------



## pidge70

ScarletBegonias said:


>


Holy Hell!......:rofl:


----------



## Almostrecovered

there was an interesting pamphlet on ADD at the doctor's office but I couldn't get thru the whole thing


----------



## COguy

ScarletBegonias said:


> I seriously will never understand why people want to do that.If you're a woman and you self diagnose yourself as BPD,whatever man finds out about it will make sure you're forever labeled as that crazy chick he'll never want to date.


Unless he wants crazy initial attachment sex, that could be a good plan.

"Hi, my name is Joe and I'm here to rescue you for the next 4-6 months while you bang the snot out of me like a psycho. When you realize my flaws you can hate me and I will kindly exit."


----------



## Too Little Too Late?

pidge70 said:


> I am 42 now and perimenopausal. I feel I am doing better now than I was before. I was diagnosed when I was 34 as a BPD'er. I was a horrible person before that and after until I hit rock bottom 2yrs ago. I am by no means "normal" yet but, I am doing all I can to reach some semblance of normalcy.
> 
> Thanks for the congrats and kudos.....I'm not fully recovered but, I am "Almostrecovered".


Your hubby waited..i tried to but she had a posOm as soon as she asked for D. I have been NC since she sent a letter telling me... thanks for the memories but I'm in love with someone else..been with posOm 5 mos. Problem for my stbxw is that she won't admit there is anything wrong. takes no blame whatsoever. Lost cause?


----------



## pidge70

Just an update, still a work in progress. Two steps forward, five back it seems. I'm still trying.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

I haven't read this entire thread but: 

Borderline Personality Disorder Resource Center


states that BPD affects 2-6% of the general population.

So, if you consider a relationship comprises 2 people, then the odds of at least one person in the relationship having BPD doubles, ie 4-12% of relationships. Which is no small number.

Considering that most relationships with a BPDer fail, or have troubles, it's no wonder that we see many befuddled spouses/partners make their way to this place.


----------



## pidge70

ThreeStrikes said:


> I haven't read this entire thread but:
> 
> Borderline Personality Disorder Resource Center
> 
> 
> states that BPD affects 2-6% of the general population.
> 
> So, if you consider a relationship comprises 2 people, then the odds of at least one person in the relationship having BPD doubles, ie 4-12% of relationships. Which is no small number.
> 
> Considering that most relationships with a BPDer fail, or have troubles, it's no wonder that we see many befuddled spouses/partners make their way to this place.


I'm not sure what to think of that....Yay I'm not alone or Damn, that makes me sad.


----------



## john117

Make the best of it for you and your kids and if your partner is open to it for him or her too.


----------



## mikealone

ThreeStrikes said:


> I haven't read this entire thread but:
> 
> Borderline Personality Disorder Resource Center
> 
> 
> states that BPD affects 2-6% of the general population.
> 
> So, if you consider a relationship comprises 2 people, then the odds of at least one person in the relationship having BPD doubles, ie 4-12% of relationships. Which is no small number.
> 
> Considering that most relationships with a BPDer fail, or have troubles, it's no wonder that we see many befuddled spouses/partners make their way to this place.


And 40% entered in the Comprehensive Psychiatric Emergency Program have Borderline of which is the highest in personality disorders.


----------



## Uptown

ThreeStrikes said:


> Borderline Personality Disorder Resource Center states that BPD affects 2-6% of the general population.


3Strikes, the 6% figure is the result of the only large-scale study ever done to determine the incidence of BPD in the general population. That study lasted several years because the research team did face-to-face interviews with nearly 35,000 American adults. It was funded by NIMH. See 2008 Study in JCP.

In contrast, the 2% figure was based on the actual percent of the population given a clinical diagnosis of BPD. As I've discussed in other threads, the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning and are never told the name of their disorder because therapists are loath to list the diagnosis as BPD (in order to protect these BPDer clients). Instead, they list it only as a co-occurring clinical disorder such as bipolar, PTSD, GAD, or depression, all of which are covered by insurance. 

It therefore is believed that the 2% figure represents the low-functioning BPDers who must be diagnosed and usually must be institutionalized for a while -- and the remaining 4% represents the high functioning folks having full-blown BPD. In addition, there also are high functioning people who satisfy only 70% or 80% of the BPD diagnostic criteria and, thus, "do not have BPD." You nonetheless would miserable if you tried to stay married to one of them.


----------



## pidge70

So, I found an therapist here that deals with people like me. I start IC next week. Hopefully I won't have to go for years but, we shall see. Joe and I have had issues for forever and now we have them with our youngest daughter, seeing as how the common denominator is me, I can only assume it is all my fault. Not trying to play victim, just stating what I see as fact.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

pidge70 said:


> So, I found an therapist here that deals with people like me. I start IC next week. Hopefully I won't have to go for years but, we shall see. Joe and I have had issues for forever and now we have them with our youngest daughter, seeing as how the common denominator is me, I can only *take responsibility for my part*. Not trying to play victim, just stating what I see as fact.


Fixed that for you. Much better attitude than fault.


----------



## pidge70

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Fixed that for you. Much better attitude than fault.


Awwwww, thanks!


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Good luck lady!  cheering for you!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70

Well, it seems my disorder is en vogue this month.......lol


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Pfft whatever...you're not even human.so there


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70

ScarletBegonias said:


> Pfft whatever...you're not even human.so there
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are now split black so.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## COguy

Pidge I'm confused. I've heard you talk about this before and admitting it and all that. I assumed you had a lot of therapy to work past your issues, what has changed recently? It seems from your post that you're just now realizing that you have some issues to work through?


----------



## pidge70

COguy said:


> Pidge I'm confused. I've heard you talk about this before and admitting it and all that. I assumed you had a lot of therapy to work past your issues, what has changed recently? It seems from your post that you're just now realizing that you have some issues to work through?


I'm not quite sure what you are referring to?


----------



## Uptown

pidge70 said:


> I'm not quite sure what you are referring to?


Pidge, I suspect Colorado is referring to post #130, where you briefly mention new problems. As Colorado apparently was, I felt concerned for you when reading that. You state:
_So, I found an therapist here that deals with people like me. I start IC next week. Hopefully I won't have to go for years but, we shall see. Joe and I have had issues for forever and now we have them with our youngest daughter, seeing as how the common denominator is me, I can only assume it is all my fault._​


----------



## COguy

pidge70 said:


> I'm not quite sure what you are referring to?


Well I figured since you were admitting you had BPD for a long time and it seemed like you were already in therapy. In your post you made it seem like you just realized it and were going to start getting help.

I assumed (maybe incorrectly?) that you were already in therapy for this.


----------



## pidge70

I had been in therapy off and on for the last 10yrs. The only time my BPD was specifically treated, I was given medication. Obviously the medication did nothing to help.


----------



## pidge70

Maybe it's the BPD, maybe it is the major recurrent depression or maybe it is the dysthymia, I don't really care anymore. Things suck here, I honestly wish I were dead. No worries, I'm not going to try anything. Way too many failed attempts since I was 14, plus, if I were to fail again, I have no desire to return to the psych floor at our local hospital. 

I was crying my a$$ off about an hour ago and then I started laughing. My mother was right. I have no friends. Freaking 44yrs old and no friends. Fvcking pathetic. I am going to withdraw from college on Monday. Stupid, stupid idea anyway. 

Yeah, I'm feeling sorry for myself. What else is new?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

We like you.


----------



## Almostrecovered

so what do friends have to do with college exactly?

college is for learning, let the 18-24 year olds party as you get your diploma


----------



## soulpotato

pidge70 said:


> Maybe it's the BPD, maybe it is the major recurrent depression or maybe it is the dysthymia, I don't really care anymore. Things suck here, I honestly wish I were dead. No worries, I'm not going to try anything. Way too many failed attempts since I was 14, plus, if I were to fail again, I have no desire to return to the psych floor at our local hospital.
> 
> I was crying my a$$ off about an hour ago and then I started laughing. My mother was right. I have no friends. Freaking 44yrs old and no friends. Fvcking pathetic. I am going to withdraw from college on Monday. Stupid, stupid idea anyway.
> 
> Yeah, I'm feeling sorry for myself. What else is new?


I'm sorry you've been feeling so awful.  And I'm glad you're not going to hurt yourself. I hope you didn't withdraw! Hang in there.

Friendship is a *****.


----------



## pidge70

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> We like you.


Thank you, that's very sweet of you to say.


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> so what do friends have to do with college exactly?
> 
> college is for learning, let the 18-24 year olds party as you get your diploma


I just meant that it would be nice to have a "real life" friend to talk to. I have trust issues, shocker, so I don't feel I have anyone "safe" to talk to.


----------



## pidge70

soulpotato said:


> I'm sorry you've been feeling so awful.  And I'm glad you're not going to hurt yourself. I hope you didn't withdraw! Hang in there.
> 
> Friendship is a *****.


Thank you sp. Although the thought of death seems like a great idea, I won't go there. I'm fairly certain my kids love me, so.....yeah. I'm not gonna lie, there are days where I wish I could just slam my vehicle into the back of a semi. I've had too many failed suicide attempts to realize, someone wants me to live. For what reason, I have no idea.

I didn't withdraw, I will actually be picking up my books next Monday.


----------



## Almostrecovered

are you still in therapy?


----------



## pidge70

Nope


----------



## Almostrecovered

hmmmmmm


----------



## Almostrecovered

and not to be snarky, but based on what you're saying it appears you need to reenforce the tools you've learned to overcome your disorder


----------



## pidge70

You know, when you hear often enough that your perception of reality is skewed, you question yourself a lot. Are the things that are causing me resentment things that would cause resentment in a "normal" person? I am literally exhausted, physically, mentally and emotionally. I'm tired of thinking I am always the one at fault. Plays into that whole "victim" mentality my people have.


----------



## Almostrecovered

pidge70 said:


> You know, when you hear often enough that your perception of reality is skewed, you question yourself a lot. Are the things that are causing me resentment things that would cause resentment in a "normal" person? I am literally exhausted, physically, mentally and emotionally. I'm tired of thinking I am always the one at fault. Plays into that whole "victim" mentality my people have.


I get that, I do
I often wonder if I am suppressing my negative feelings so much if it's unhealthy (out of fear of losing control)

did the previous therapist at all help with such feelings, perhaps a new one could help?


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> I get that, I do
> I often wonder if I am suppressing my negative feelings so much if it's unhealthy (out of fear of losing control)
> 
> did the previous therapist at all help with such feelings, perhaps a new one could help?


I briefly saw a psych who mostly harped on my OCD. She kept asking me why I couldn't just not clean? I was like, seriously? What part of Obsessive Compulsive do you not get? All anyone in my area ever wants to do is drug my a$$ up. That sh!t does not work. She briefly thought about Lithium, but my multiple suicide attempts deterred her. Apparently if you OD on that, you have very little chance of survival.


----------



## Almostrecovered

pidge70 said:


> I briefly saw a psych who mostly harped on my OCD. She kept asking me why I couldn't just not clean? I was like, seriously? What part of Obsessive Compulsive do you not get? All anyone in my area ever wants to do is drug my a$$ up. That sh!t does not work. She briefly thought about Lithium, but my multiple suicide attempts deterred her. Apparently if you OD on that, you have very little chance of survival.


surely there must be some sort of expert that could help you in your area

are you in rural Misery or near a city like StLou?


----------



## pidge70

Almostrecovered said:


> surely there must be some sort of expert that could help you in your area
> 
> are you in rural Misery or near a city like StLou?


I am in Swampeast Misery. Aka, Hillbilly Hell.


----------



## Almostrecovered

ever look into online counseling?

just throwing out suggestions


----------



## pidge70

Maybe they have some sort of services for students at the college....would they even see me? I guess since I am a student, albeit an old one, they would have to? I dunno.


----------



## Almostrecovered

if it's only option then at least go and see

I am hesitant because the mental health center at my college was rather poorly run at the time, (most of them psych post grads) but that was 23 years ago


----------



## john117

pidge70 said:


> Maybe they have some sort of services for students at the college....would they even see me? I guess since I am a student, albeit an old one, they would have to? I dunno.



If your college has a decent psych program (grad) sure. I know the clinical / behavior grad students back in my days did see people as part of their studies. The cognitive / experimental (like me) or organizational grad students did not. 

Also if your college has a nursing, medical, or social work program that could be worth checking out.


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## john117

pidge70 said:


> You know, when you hear often enough that your perception of reality is skewed, you question yourself a lot. Are the things that are causing me resentment things that would cause resentment in a "normal" person? I am literally exhausted, physically, mentally and emotionally. I'm tired of thinking I am always the one at fault. Plays into that whole "victim" mentality my people have.



Everyone's perception of reality is skewed - that's why we are all different. 

And a lot of the things that cause you resentment cause resentment in other people as well. 

It's the degree of the emotional response that differs. Some people can filter out or compartmentalize things and others don't. Focusing on the "basics" and steps to follow when situation XYZ occurs is very useful, like CBT.


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## COguy

I understood that a huge part of therapy for BPD was the group therapy sessions. I can imagine that hearing other people discuss their internal dialogue from a similar perspective would be very enlightening.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can escape the "is everything a result of my skewed perception?" dialogue because it's a reality of your current situation. Until you get help for this you won't have a good frame of reference for what is normal and what is the disorder.

Recognizing that you have a problem is much more than half the battle in terms of BPD. By admitting it, you have a high chance of success, don't sell yourself short. You owe it to yourself to overcome this.


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## pidge70

Honestly, I think it was easier to deal with before I became aware. Easier for me obviously. I've said it before, I'd prefer to wrap myself up in my big, BPD blanket and just say eff it. I didn't give a sh!t what people thought then and I wasn't always doubting myself. Such as the disorder goes, everything was black/white. I despise all the shades of gray.


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## COGypsy

Oh it was a million and twelve times easier to deal with life before awareness and diagnoses. I don't have Borderline, but I do have bipolar II and it was SO much easier to not give an eff and swing every which way in a wild orgy of non-existent impulse control!

Now it's all about being grown-up and aware and responsible and sh!t and it frankly sucks [email protected]

One thing that struck me though, you mentioned earlier is comparing your thoughts and feelings to a "normal" person. I used to try to do that until I had an epiphany one day. I changed the question, mostly because I don't give a flip about what other people think or feel compared to me. It became a lot more productive to try and ask myself if what I was thinking or feeling was *valid* or if it was just my stupid broken brain trying to trick me. 

Yeah, I'm not in the best place right now, but hopefully that doesn't keep me from making a little sense trying to explain that shift. It's kind of odd--seems like everyone I know with a mental health dx is in a really bad place right now. Just have to grit our teeth, dig in our nails and hang on. At least I know that if nothing else, this mood will pass!


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## soulpotato

Almostrecovered said:


> surely there must be some sort of expert that could help you in your area
> 
> are you in rural Misery or near a city like StLou?


It's ridiculously hard to find BPD experts.


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## john117

BPD people are no different than others in a lot of aspects. My wife has few problems dealing with the corporate world for example. That's because her line of work is (pardon the pun) absolutely black and white, and no emotions are involved (except when her Indian coworkers hit on her  long story)

But they may not do as well in areas of gray or areas involving emotions like family or intimacy.


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## soulpotato

john117 said:


> BPD people are no different than others in a lot of aspects. My wife has few problems dealing with the corporate world for example. That's because her line of work is (pardon the pun) absolutely black and white, and no emotions are involved (except when her Indian coworkers hit on her  long story)
> 
> But they may not do as well in areas of gray or areas involving emotions like family or intimacy.


Yeah, but those areas in which we do differ from others make a WORLD of difference. Both to us and to those who interact with us.


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## john117

I know. And it's easier to bridge the gaps if you think how we are all alike versus start with the idea that we are different. Both scenarios are correct.

I know it's easier said than done, but it really boils down to thinking about how best to accomplish your goals - CBT more than DBT. 

My wife spends huge amounts of time working to make sure her Indians did it right. That's THEIR problem more than it is HER problem. So instead of trusting them more which is difficult for her, I ask her to look at how best to split the work and NOT have to do everything herself. Sometimes it works 

I know it's a trivial issue when comparing it to the more intricate personal relationship issues we face. But it's a baby step and a long way is made up of many baby steps.


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## pidge70

Yeah, I have a hard time letting other people deal with things I feel are my responsibility. I don't feel they will do it correctly. That might be more of an OCD thing. Any way you slice it, I have control issues.


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## john117

That's where learning to trust people (for work) is crucial.,my team is a dozen people from all kinds of specialties. I don't know all of them so I trust what they do. Perhaps if you start trusting them it may help with trust issues in general?


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## soulpotato

john117 said:


> I know. And it's easier to bridge the gaps if you think how we are all alike versus start with the idea that we are different. Both scenarios are correct.


See, the problem is that we START with the idea of thinking we are like other people. Then we are painfully and repeatedly beaten with the knowledge that we are NOT like other people. So it's a little hard to ignore a fvckload of real-life experience there. It would be downright delusional to do so, actually.



john117 said:


> I know it's easier said than done, but it really boils down to thinking about how best to accomplish your goals - CBT more than DBT.


Truly an understatement, LOL. I know nons have both textbook knowledge and actual experiences with BPDers that make them think that they know what it's like, but truly, they don't. Not that those experiences and opinions aren't valuable, however.



john117 said:


> My wife spends huge amounts of time working to make sure her Indians did it right. That's THEIR problem more than it is HER problem. So instead of trusting them more which is difficult for her, I ask her to look at how best to split the work and NOT have to do everything herself. Sometimes it works


I get it. I often find if I trust people to do something for me, whether in my personal life or at work, they fvck it up. Quite disappointing and frustrating. And amazing how often it occurs, actually.


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## john117

See, we have common points of reference with each other - we are not necessarily like each other. Heck, the main difference is emotional processing, but otherwise we are not that far apart. Think of things common in all of us, not things "I have XYZ so I can't relate". Bridge building. Small things first, and build on those. 

You are correct, we don't know what it feels to have to deal with BPD. But we try to. I can predict my wife's behavior neuron by neuron. The black and white model of thinking leads itself to being very predictable, much more so than the shades of gear model. Armed with this knowledge I can go backwards from her decision and try to feel how she feels, and try to help her mitigate some of her concerns and raw emotions.

People do fvck up on a regular basis. I do too. As long as they own up to it and do the right thing does it matter? 

Think by adding a third category between black and white. Call it Orange. Orange is for "it does not matter". If you paint things orange you don't see them...


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## soulpotato

john117 said:


> See, we have common points of reference with each other - we are not necessarily like each other. Heck, the main difference is emotional processing, but otherwise we are not that far apart. Think of things common in all of us, not things "I have XYZ so I can't relate". Bridge building. Small things first, and build on those.


The emotional processing issue is a PITA.



john117 said:


> You are correct, we don't know what it feels to have to deal with BPD. But we try to. I can predict my wife's behavior neuron by neuron. The black and white model of thinking leads itself to being very predictable, much more so than the shades of gear model. Armed with this knowledge I can go backwards from her decision and try to feel how she feels, and try to help her mitigate some of her concerns and raw emotions.


It's interesting that you find your wife so predictable. I mean, people in general tend to be unpredictable to some degree. I have heard several times from the people close to me that I am unpredictable and still surprise them.



john117 said:


> People do fvck up on a regular basis. I do too. As long as they own up to it and do the right thing does it matter?
> 
> Think by adding a third category between black and white. Call it Orange. Orange is for "it does not matter". If you paint things orange you don't see them...


It depends on their attitude about fvcking up and whether or not they actually DO the right thing (and how often it happens, because it can begin to seem passive-aggressive when it happens a lot). In _my_ experience with people who fvck up, there is less owning up and apologizing and more defending and a bad attitude happening. It wouldn't be as bad if they WOULD own up to it and do the right thing, I suppose.

LOL, give me that orange, I will pour it all over everything!


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## soulpotato

pidge70 said:


> Yeah, I have a hard time letting other people deal with things I feel are my responsibility. I don't feel they will do it correctly. That might be more of an OCD thing. Any way you slice it, I have control issues.


I think it is tough to come out of certain backgrounds without picking up control issues.


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## pidge70

The way it was explained to me, at least the OCD aspect, I clean because I can control that. I had no control over anything as a child. I never knew if when my mother came home drunk, if I would be her "baby" or the world's worst person ever. I remember one night waking up with her sitting on my chest, punching me repeatedly. Good times.

Another control thing, I was raped when I was 14. I became extremely promiscuous after that. The psych said that if I was "giving it away", a man could not take it from me. 

My psych profile reads like a novella. Frigging ridiculous how much my childhood screwed me up. Despite it all, I have forgiven my mother. I had to, for my sake. My sperm donor though, he can rot in Hell.


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## john117

SP, people are predictable especially if you know them. And they are immensely predictable if you know them well.

After all, we are all driven by the same basic software - mental models - and all that changes are the inputs and their weights. Figure out what is important to them and you're nearly there.

To do so you have to be able to "read" people and pick up nuances. You have to observe, record, sort, summarize, and classify tidbits. It's not as hard as it sounds. That's where empathy helps.


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## soulpotato

john117 said:


> SP, people are predictable especially if you know them. And they are immensely predictable if you know them well.
> 
> After all, we are all driven by the same basic software - mental models - and all that changes are the inputs and their weights. Figure out what is important to them and you're nearly there.
> 
> To do so you have to be able to "read" people and pick up nuances. You have to observe, record, sort, summarize, and classify tidbits. It's not as hard as it sounds. That's where empathy helps.


I personally believe that it would be a mistake to imagine that we know people so well that they are 100% predictable, or that we can completely know them at all. People can shift and warp in unexpected ways. There are always hidden things, hidden parts.

I read people very well in some ways, not so well in others. Naturally the greatest problem is with reading people I care about, because I am emotionally involved and therefore unable to be more objective. My own emotions get in the way and cloud things. 

I think all of us BPDers tend to have a problem when it comes to reading people when our emotions are involved. It's not that we generally lack empathy, contrary to popular belief. I believe there has been some research that found that BPDers have trouble properly reading facial expressions, social cues, etc. I think I've related this somewhere on TAM before, but one of my therapists once said that people with BPD are like [the emotional equivalent of] those who are hearing impaired.


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## badcompany

ScarletBegonias said:


> If I had to pick a most dreaded part of being a bpd'er,the inability to feel the feelings in between love and hate would be the most dreaded.
> 
> I couldn't just dislike a part of someone,I had to dislike the ENTIRE someone. Then love them intensely the next day
> 
> Every now and then I'll catch myself doing it and it sucks.That's when I have to sit the person down and explain myself to them,hoping they'll understand and work with me.


This must be hard to voice about yourself, but this is also such valuable information to spouses dealing with BPD'ers as well as the few that may read the tendencies that could self-realize. Your own point of view is so much better than the generalizations found in a book or online. I would like to know more, if you can.


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## Uptown

soulpotato said:


> My own emotions get in the way and cloud things. I think all of us BPDers tend to have a problem when it comes to reading people when our emotions are involved. It's not that we generally lack empathy, contrary to popular belief.


SP, that is my understanding too. My experience is that BPDers typically are very empathetic to other peoples' feelings as long as their fears are not triggered. Once the fears get triggered, however, the BPDer's feelings become so intense that they color and distort her perception -- or "cloud things," as you say. Of course, this distortion caused by intense feelings occurs to all of us. The BPDers differ from nonBPDers in that such intense feelings occur more frequently and the BPDers -- lacking self soothing skills -- are much slower to recover. The BPDers therefore are burdened with these thought distortions more frequently and more intensely that is true for the Nons. This, at least, is my understanding.



> I believe there has been some research that found that BPDers have trouble properly reading facial expressions, social cues, etc.


I suspect that would be true only while the BPDer's perceptions are distorted by intense feelings. When those intense feelings are absent, my experience is that BPDers generally are very good at reading facial expressions and social cues. Indeed, I recently read about study results (reported in a newspaper) that found BPDers generally are quicker than Nons in picking up on facial expressions. 

That experiment showed a series of videos in which a face was transforming into either a smile or a frown. The test subject was told to push a button for "smile" or "frown" as soon as he/she could determine which way the face change was headed. The results showed that BPDers were substantially quicker in correctly pushing the buttons. If I run across that study again, I'll post a cite for it. It concluded that BPDers seemed to be somewhat hypersensitive to emotional cues revealed in facial expressions.


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## Flying_Dutchman

I get tired sometimes trying to explain that BPDs have empathy AND that they aren't defined by their condition.

They have the same range of personalities as the rest of us.

The difference (simplistically) is that a slight, fleeting desire for us is a tunnel vision must-have for a BPD.

As a result, it can be difficult to refocus them.

It's the underlying personality - assisted or not by other cluster b effects - that determines whether they persue positive or negative things.

Narcissistic BPDs can be a menace. Empathetic BPDs make great veterinarians and care workers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117

Narcissistic BPD's make incredible mathematicians or analytic workers  - the tunnel vision really allows them to hyper focus on one task.

As an ADHD I'm the exact opposite.


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## soulpotato

Uptown said:


> SP, that is my understanding too. My experience is that BPDers typically are very empathetic to other peoples' feelings as long as their fears are not triggered. Once the fears get triggered, however, the BPDer's feelings become so intense that they color and distort her perception -- or "cloud things," as you say.


I suppose it's rather like going into a lock-down mode. The distress can be so loud that one can't hear anything else right away. I haven't had that happen for a while, but before, I know that my (now ex) partner seemed to be the only person who was able to refocus me when I was like that. But she was also the one who could send me into that state most easily. Naturally.

Trouble is, some of those perceptions are accurate and some are not, so it can be very challenging to sort through them on the fly when in the middle of feeling distressed. The other person can help or hinder this process to some extent, at least in my experience.


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## john117

The big question is... Is this (emotional) lockdown permanent? My experience seems to suggest that it is.


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## DvlsAdvc8

The couple BPD gfs I've had were the most and least empathetic people I've ever known. It all depends on what they wanted most at that particular time (for better or worse).


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## DvlsAdvc8

pidge70 said:


> I was raped when I was 14. I became extremely promiscuous after that. The psych said that if I was "giving it away", a man could not take it from me.


You have this in common with the BPD women I've been with. The last was raped as a virgin at 12 by a 45 year old man she met on the internet.

I don't know if that's causal though or contributing. I mean, she had to already have some problem if she thought it was a great idea to sneak out to meet some 45 year old man she had been dirty chatting with.

And each of the women I've seen has had major self-esteem trouble. Like, they're absolutely gorgeous and incredibly intelligent women, yet they inexplicably feel deep down that they are completely unworthy of being loved. They trust nothing, least of all themselves.

The promiscuity was often a way to feel valuable. One common thing they did was immediately have sex with someone upon any breakup. Erase the feeling that someone didn't want you, by "proof" that someone new does.

It's weird, but I've come to associate what BPD women commonly do with what most women do... but with the volume turned up to maximum. It doesn't seem all that different to me, just more extreme.


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## soulpotato

john117 said:


> The big question is... Is this (emotional) lockdown permanent? My experience seems to suggest that it is.


No - at least, not for me. I would either cycle out of it once I calmed down, or could be brought out of it by the distress of my partner.


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## Uptown

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I've come to associate what BPD women commonly do with what most women do... but with the volume turned up to maximum. It doesn't seem all that different to me, just more extreme.


Advocate, yes, that is my experience also. The thought distortions that are so characteristic of BPD are more extreme in BPDers but also occur to varying degrees in the rest of us too. Hence, BPDers differ from everyone else only in degree, not in kind. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means we all exhibit BPD traits to some degree and those traits are basic human ego defenses that are universal. This means we are all somewhere on the BPD spectrum of intensity -- and our positions on that spectrum change at various points in our lives.


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## Xenote2

I hope this is ok to post here but I feel like from what I can see this is the best BPD forum so far. 
So today is my birthday. My husband is home. I thought since he never does much every year for me he would at least let me sleep in for once and him get up with the kids. I put everything out last mightn't make it easy but nope. I woke him up for him to bi*ch about how he didn't sleep well last night. He must've been to busy snoring in my ear last night to sleep. I feel like every year I always disappointed. It's my 30th this year and he made it clear I wouldn't be celebrating with my friends like I normally do but with him and the kids. That's totally fine but a part of me inside hurts because I know this day won't feel like mine. All I asked was to go to my fav sushi place for dinner tonight, instead he bought some aahi tuna steaks he plans on making instead. He loves ahi, he's absolute favorite meat out there. I on the other hand don't, and there is no f'ing way he doesn't know this as he always tries to push it on me and I always pass. Am I being a big baby? Is assuming I would at least get to sleep in on my birthday too much? He's off work right now so we are both home. I feel like this is déjà vu for Mother's Day. Guess who slept in? I don't know if it's my BPD or valid to feel disappointed and unappreciated. I haven't been a perfect wife and that is an understatement. I debated making my own thread but he is on here and I'm trying to keep my presence a secret. I've gone on other forums but this one seems the most active and there are BPD members on here who's comments etc I've read and I can obviously relate. I don't know. Is having bday expectations normal or am I just being a 30 year old baby?


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## DvlsAdvc8

Xenote, I think anyone would be upset with the conditions you describe. Your husband sounds extremely selfish. It is not unreasonable to anticipate or have expectations that someone who loves you will give you special treatment for your birthday.

The only BPD-related issue I see in your post is the hint at wanting the birthday celebration with your friends. Husband and children ought to be closer in intimacy, and it sounds a little unusual that you wouldn't prefer to celebrate your birthday with them.

You're not being a big baby about the birthday deal. Have you brought this up with him? I mean it could be he's simply clueless, but I agree with you that it sounds like a willful lack of care or interest in making you feel special (which shouldn't only apply to your birthday anyway, imo).


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## Pooh Bear

argyle said:


> ...dunno...practically every mental disorder has the same problem.* The disorders mostly don't seem to exist in a binary fashion - it is just a matter of setting a threshold on a continuous 'how crazy are you' variable for diagnostic purposes. (That said, true crazy usually seems to involve positive feedback - so breaking that feedback loop often helps more than you'd expect.) (For evidence, look at the changes in DSM V.)
> 
> I think there's some merit in being aware of your spouse's personality. (what crazy are they?) As personality disorders and autism don't respond much to drugs...a spouse is mostly limited to changing their own behavior to adapt to the their partner's crazy.
> 
> Even though there is a lot of merit to the 'healthy behavior is healthy behavior' thesis, there are a broad range of healthy behaviors - some of which will work better depending on your spouse's personality. So, yep, figuring out if your spouse has traits characteristic of BPD - whether or not they actually have the disorder - can be helpful. As an example, a BPD spouse may react very well to validation...while an autistic spouse may meltdown because you're using too many words.) My opinion is that reading a few books and trying stuff at random is likely to be more effective than focusing on any particular trait group.
> 
> Also, there's some merit in gauging how crazy your spouse is. For an extreme example, consider MOSIAC threat assessment. (Online test that estimates the odds that your spouse will kill you at any given time. One acquaintance took it...moved abruptly with no forwarding address.) Hopefully more practically, many people in poor R/S aren't particularly aware of 'normal', and getting a baseline is also handy.
> 
> ...in terms of nature versus nuture...separated twin studies have given a decent answer...about 50%. In practice, most MRI studies I have seen are fairly ambiguous in terms of causality. It appears that the physical structure of the brain changes behavior and that behavior changes the physical structure of the brain. For those seeking to change themselves, it may be best to think of the glass as being half full. Hard work and discipline are likely to change your brain.
> 
> --Argyle
> *In terms of over-diagnosis, I suspect that BPD-tendencies are overdiagnosed as BPD, but that they tend to be problematic enough that some treatment is a great thing. I suspect that diagnosable BPD/NPDs tend to be underdiagnosed. (I know some insanely hateful women who show all the BPD traits and who are undiagnosed in their 70s. Their daughters are similar.)


It would be nice if you would not use the term, 'crazy' to refer to mental illness. They are illnesses. 'Crazy' is derogatory.


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## Pooh Bear

pidge70 said:


> You know thought that a therapist/psychiatrist is very unlikely to state BPD as most insurance companies will not pay for that diagnosis.


Really? Why?


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## Pooh Bear

ScarletBegonias said:


> I seriously will never understand why people want to do that.If you're a woman and you self diagnose yourself as BPD,whatever man finds out about it will make sure you're forever labeled as that crazy chick he'll never want to date.
> 
> Don't self diagnose,people.Get thee to therapy.


A lot of people self-diagnose because they are in a lot of pain but uncomfortable talking with someone else about the symptoms. So it is possible that they have the illness but they have not seen someone who will confirm that for them yet. When they do see someone it is just confirmation of what they already knew. I have no idea why someone would diagnose themselves with a mental illness who does not have one. Although I see a lot of people trying to diagnose _other_ people with mental illness. I would find it hard to believe that that it happens a lot that people don't have the illness and decide they have it. 

And I am of the firm opinion that if someone rejects you because of your illness you are better off for it. The last one someone needs is someone in their lives who is ashamed or unsupportive of them because of their illness. Or even worse, abusive.


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## Pooh Bear

Mavash. said:


> See THIS is what I see in myself now. BPD'ers are quite charming, fun and full of crazy passion. Once I learned how to weed out the bad stuff and just keep my fun side I'm awesome too. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I'm still crazy but now in a good way...a fun way.
> 
> Been married 21 years and I'm back to the free spirit I was when I first started dating my husband. I just had to get back in touch with her. My husband can't get enough of me now.


That's awesome. Congratulations.  I'm really happy for you.


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## Pooh Bear

pidge70 said:


> The way it was explained to me, at least the OCD aspect, I clean because I can control that. I had no control over anything as a child. I never knew if when my mother came home drunk, if I would be her "baby" or the world's worst person ever. I remember one night waking up with her sitting on my chest, punching me repeatedly. Good times.
> 
> Another control thing, I was raped when I was 14. I became extremely promiscuous after that. The psych said that if I was "giving it away", a man could not take it from me.
> 
> My psych profile reads like a novella. Frigging ridiculous how much my childhood screwed me up. Despite it all, I have forgiven my mother. I had to, for my sake. My sperm donor though, he can rot in Hell.


I'm so sorry.


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## Pooh Bear

pidge70 said:


> Maybe they have some sort of services for students at the college....would they even see me? I guess since I am a student, albeit an old one, they would have to? I dunno.


Was the IC you were talking about the psychiatrist who tried to put you on meds for OCD?

I doubt they would have anyone at college, Pidge. They are all still learning. You need someone who knows their stuff. For the OCD you need exposure response prevention therapy. I don't know what they use for BPD.

I don't know if this is any good but you might look into it. They treat a lot of different mental illnesses aside from schizophrenia.

How We Can Help - Psychology - Doctor On Demand

Luckily, I live in a big city and was finally able to find the proper treatment for OCD. It took awhile though. I had the same problem you did. Medication. And talk therapy. Which I now know is useless for OCD and can even make it worse in some cases.  Do you know what therapy is generally the best for BPD? Do they use Cognitive Behavior Therapy? I have really black and white thinking as well because of the OCD. And I do not like uncertainty.


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## john117

I have tried DIY CBT with my BPD (having spent lots of money studying Cognitive Psychology ) and it did not work very well if you didn't have the exact situation or issue already "covered". Now granted, I'm an amateur, but getting to the point where she could make an inference or manage a new situation from existing CBT scenarios was never easy. 

I would lean towards DBT and you'll need a therapist trained in the stuff, or more wholistic / integrated techniques.


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## happy as a clam

Pooh Bear...

I don't mean to single out your recommendation for Doctor on Demand, but I just CRINGE at the whole idea of being treated by doctors over the Internet. IMHO, it's just one more opportunity for a "breakdown" in a relationship where trust, body language, and a "safe place" are crucial to healing.

H*ll, now we can go to the local drug store and get "diagnosed" by someone in the pharmacy! I hope no one has a brain tumor, a rare disease, or cancer. It might not be "picked up" by the technician.

Sorry for the rant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pooh Bear

happy as a clam said:


> Pooh Bear...
> 
> I don't mean to single out your recommendation for Doctor on Demand, but I just CRINGE at the whole idea of being treated by doctors over the Internet. IMHO, it's just one more opportunity for a "breakdown" in a relationship where trust, body language, and a "safe place" are crucial to healing.
> 
> H*ll, now we can go to the local drug store and get "diagnosed" by someone in the pharmacy! I hope no one has a brain tumor, a rare disease, or cancer. It might not be "picked up" by the technician.
> 
> Sorry for the rant.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh no. It's fine. Different strokes for different folks. I have never tried it myself. But I have been on support sites for OCD where people just cannot find a mental health professional who can actually help them. Some states don't have anyone who does ERP. If I were in that situation I think I would try it anyway. It may not work. And I kind feel like those sites can help with relationship issues, etc - like any run of the mill counselor. I believe, though, with a lot of our illnesses we need a specialist and unfortunately that is always available.


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## Pooh Bear

*H*ll, now we can go to the local drug store and get "diagnosed" by someone in the pharmacy! I hope no one has a brain tumor, a rare disease, or cancer. It might not be "picked up" by the technician.*

I'm kind of talking about people who already know they have an illness and have some knowledge about the kind of treatment they might need. Unfortunately, mental illness isn't treated like physical illness and I have found you have to figure it out for yourself. Which stinks. And then, unlike physical illnesses it is difficult to find a specialist who can treat you. I really hope in the future they treat mental illness more like physical illness. A general counselor would recognize that there is something going on and refer you to a specialist who can diagnose and treat. A general practitioner does not try to diagnose and treat cancer but general counselor will try to diagnose and treat a mental illness. It makes no sense.


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## pidge70

Is it possible as a BPD'er to have a child with NPD? I honestly think my oldest is. Too many red flags there. Maybe she is just a BPD'er like me, and since I am self-aware I see the signs more clearly? I dunno.

I've also come to accept that Lil Joe most likely has Aspergers. The school thinks he does. I've read up on it, and he fits a lot of the criteria. I keep thinking somehow this is my fault for having him at such an advanced age. I'm still scared to have him actually tested for it. Denial is a strong suit of mine.


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## john117

I know two kids with Aspie and they're both awesome - one was the obligatory math genius before dropping out of college to pursue cooking education - he's such a good cook it's scary. I've had stuff he made.

The other is a friend of my younger girl. She's a successful college junior double majoring in physics and music.

Have him tested so that you know how to best work with him.


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## soccermom2three

Your oldest is a teenager, right? Could it be just the normal narcissistic traits that most teenagers exhibit?


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## thebard77

pidge70 said:


> Is it possible as a BPD'er to have a child with NPD? I honestly think my oldest is. Too many red flags there. Maybe she is just a BPD'er like me, and since I am self-aware I see the signs more clearly? I dunno.
> 
> I've also come to accept that Lil Joe most likely has Aspergers. The school thinks he does. I've read up on it, and he fits a lot of the criteria. I keep thinking somehow this is my fault for having him at such an advanced age. I'm still scared to have him actually tested for it. Denial is a strong suit of mine.


I've been lurking for a long time but I read this and thought that I could respond here as I have some familiarity with personality disorders. How old is your oldest? Personality disorders are considered to have their onset in late adolescence and early adulthood. To answer your question, yes it is possible for borderlines to have children with narcissistic personality disorder. Does your child engage in the use of social media?


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## pidge70

soccermom2three said:


> Your oldest is a teenager, right? Could it be just the normal narcissistic traits that most teenagers exhibit?


My oldest is actually 26. I have 4 children. Three girls and a boy. They are 26,22,15,and 6.


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## pidge70

john117 said:


> I know two kids with Aspie and they're both awesome - one was the obligatory math genius before dropping out of college to pursue cooking education - he's such a good cook it's scary. I've had stuff he made.
> 
> The other is a friend of my younger girl. She's a successful college junior double majoring in physics and music.
> 
> Have him tested so that you know how to best work with him.


The thing is, he doesn't tick all the boxes. He has a few speech issues that they are working on with him at school. Not anything major.....stuff like using the "B" sound instead of "V." Like saying "Bacuum," instead of "Vacuum." He has an above average IQ. They just have trouble keeping him on task. He makes eye contact , but he would rather socialize with adults than kids. Although he does interact with my 9yr old grandson a lot when he is here. 

I don't know. I just want him to be a happy kid. He seems fine not having friends. It bothers me more than him I think.


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## pidge70

thebard77 said:


> I've been lurking for a long time but I read this and thought that I could respond here as I have some familiarity with personality disorders. How old is your oldest? Personality disorders are considered to have their onset in late adolescence and early adulthood. To answer your question, yes it is possible for borderlines to have children with narcissistic personality disorder. Does your child engage in the use of social media?


My oldest is a 26y old female. She has FB. So many selfies it isn't even funny.


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## pidge70

I do love roaming around and reading how some people think all people like me are monsters. Unworthy of empathy, forgiveness, love, or anything it seems. Can't begin to wonder why I get so down on myself sometimes. I need to start a Social Group of all of TAM's Cluster B's......:laugh:


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## john117

Pidge, you have something that many vanilla flavored PD's in TAM or on real life lack - you're aware of what the three letter acronym means and you're managing it as you need. That makes you as much of a monster as I am due to high blood pressure 

One of my best friends and a former colleague (and a fellow psychologist to boot) has bipolar. He's very open about it, great guy, great designer, great father, etc. Not a monster either!

He has self confidence that defies explanation - but without going overboard like I often do. It's ok to be down on yourself sometimes but if you're doing a great job spike the ball once in a while!!


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## pidge70

john117 said:


> Pidge, you have something that many vanilla flavored PD's in TAM or on real life lack - you're aware of what the three letter acronym means and you're managing it as you need. That makes you as much of a monster as I am due to high blood pressure
> 
> One of my best friends and a former colleague (and a fellow psychologist to boot) has bipolar. He's very open about it, great guy, great designer, great father, etc. Not a monster either!
> 
> He has self confidence that defies explanation - but without going overboard like I often do. It's ok to be down on yourself sometimes but if you're doing a great job spike the ball once in a while!!


It is what it is. I find it more amusing than anything anymore. I used to let certain posters get to me. I would get pissed, or even cry. Now, I don't give a sh!t. I know who I am, I know where I am going, and I know how I got this way. I didn't ask to be abandoned by my sperm donor. I didn't ask to be emotionally, verbally, and physically abused by my mother. I didn't ask to be raped or any of the other godawful things that have made me what I am today.* BUT*, I wouldn't change any of it if I could. All those things are what have made me strong. Sometimes my strength is a facade, but most of the time it is not. I kinda liken myself to Jaime Sommers. :grin2:


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## Deejo

I always used to wonder just how bad it would be, getting kicked in the junk by Jamie Sommers.


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## john117

I got the bionic eye and it didn't cost $6M. That is, 50/20 distance vision for $250 per eye. Not bad. Beat that Jaime or Steve 

Can't kick to save my life tho.


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## pidge70

The more I think about it, the more I envy the BPD'ers who aren't self aware. I'm tired of the neverending guilt that is my life. I'm putting my BPD shroud back on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## giddiot

pidge70 said:


> The more I think about it, the more I envy the BPD'ers who aren't self aware. I'm tired of the neverending guilt that is my life. I'm putting my BPD shroud back on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Sorry.


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## pidge70

giddiot said:


> Sorry.


It's all good. Best way to protect myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray

pidge70 said:


> My oldest is actually 26. I have 4 children. Three girls and a boy. They are 26,22,15,and 6.


Wow.... 20, 16, 12, 1.. 3 girls and a boy.


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## larry.gray

pidge70 said:


> Is it possible as a BPD'er to have a child with NPD? I honestly think my oldest is. Too many red flags there. Maybe she is just a BPD'er like me, and since I am self-aware I see the signs more clearly? I dunno.


Those with cluster B have no issue with seeing it in others. The issue is a lack of self awareness. I can listen to my dad go on and on about my sister, unable to see his issues. My sis can do the same about him. They both tell tales stretching the truth beyond believable. At first I thought they were insulting my intelligence, then I realized they believed what they were saying. 

To directly answer: grandfather is definitely NPD, dad is probably NPD, sis is definitely BPD. None diagnosed, but geez, no doubt in my mind.



pidge70 said:


> I've also come to accept that Lil Joe most likely has Aspergers. The school thinks he does. I've read up on it, and he fits a lot of the criteria. I keep thinking somehow this is my fault for having him at such an advanced age. I'm still scared to have him actually tested for it. Denial is a strong suit of mine.


I would suggest testing. I suspected Asperger's in my son but it is not. He's got a processing disorder where he sometimes does not understand and gets stuck in a loop arguing his version of what he heard.


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## EllaSuaveterre

I have BPD. I was diagnosed with it after I nearly got myself killed doing something impossibly stupid that I REALLY don't want to talk about, and then upon realizing how reckless I'd been, wanted to kill myself. I went into the hospital 2 years ago and was diagnosed with BPD immediately upon release. 

I haven't had an episode like that in a while. I don't tend to put others in harm's way. I have an on-and-off relationship with mild self-harm and an eating disorder, but that's about it. No broken lamps, no drugs, no threats of suicide, no rampant sex, nothing like that. What it does to me most of the time is bring me into a severe cant-get-out-of-bed depression in a matter of moments, and make me worry intensely that my husband has fallen out of love with me. I never act on my worry except to occasionally ask him, "Hey, you still love me right?"

I absolutely hate the stereotype that all people with BPD are totally unmanageable psychopaths who will rip your heart out through your spine and burn your house down. I try my best never to hurt my husband, and 99.9% of the time, I don't. And when I do I apologize and try to make up for it. And actually, 99% of the time, when I think I've hurt my husband, it turns out it's my own fear and he's fine.


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