# Tettering here



## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

TEETERING HERE.....

Do any of y'all teeter between wanting to throw in the towel and trying to salavage a marraige?

My wife stayed home for a number of years with the kids, then she had trouble keeping a job, 2 companies folded and one was a high pressure sales job that she was let go from for performance. 

Within the past 5 years she has done really well with the current job and has been promoted and seems to have really found her niche. 

I still earn 40% more than she does, but her job is much more demanding and she has to travel a day or so every couple of weeks to her customer's location.

She is really into her job and I have been super supportive, but it is like her life revolves around that job now. It is all she talks about - she cannot even hold a conversation about anything else. She stays on her computer working at night and on weekends.

I've recently pointed this out and told her we really need to work on our marriage b/c we are drifting. I've made attempts to do things together, be more romantic with her (even though she is not the romantic type).

So, a little background story: 2 months ago I stumbled on her mildly flirty text messages (she is not flirty by nature, so by others' standards these texts might seem harmless, but in light of her being so prudish I took it VERY SERIOUSLY) and I hit the ceiiling. 

She maintains that this guy was being overly flirty with her, but he is at Director level and she felt she had to handle this delicately and play the game to not be passed over. I called BS and said no promotion is worth putting up with that.

I put a recorder in her car and in her office and hired a PI to follow her when she went out of town last time. I caught her lying twice (same timeframe as the text messages) about saying shhe was tired and back in her room, but found out from the text messages she went back out with all the work people. The norm is these guys always go out to extravagent dinners and drinks, etc. In one text the guy offered to "escort her to her room", but she replied "Already here, but thanks". 

So, she was avoiding him. However, she was also saying things like "Enjoyed hanging out with you" and "When are you going back to (customer site) and there were weekend text messages. He also kept pressing her to go on a business trip to Chicago, promising a bar crawl with the clients and going to baseball games. 

I blew up and she told me I was crazy and laughed at me. I was enraged. I found the guy's wife on FB and said "Hey, I found some worrisome text messages between our spouses and my wife says I'm over reacting - so if I am please just dismiss me as being a little too paranoid. But please share your thoughts". 

I sent screen shots of all the texts and she hit the roof. She said it was abvious that nothing happened, but the textts messages were inappropriate. I told my wife what I did and said, "Guess I'm not crazy afterall". We brawled. She said I was ruining her career and she would probably gett fired. BS. She is doing fine still.

Now she is on the brink of getting a promotion and will be directly reporting to this guy. I've taped their conversations and it is all business - he is actually being chilly to her. But I still do not like it.

So, since this mess occured I have made big attempts to work on us, but she is not really making any attemps.

we have a lot of sex and it is really great, I make sure she comes first - we do a lot of 69, etc- but we are not romantic or affectionate outside of the bedroom. And after sex there is no cuddling, etc. I tell her this is odd and I want more of a connection outside of the bedroom.

So, I told her yesterday as I was leaving to run a trail race that we needed to hug evey day and I gave her a hug. She made a b1tch face and said, "are we going to have to hug every time we see each other?".

I was pissed and sent her a text a few minutes aftter I left: "That was a b1tch thing to say. You dont have to hug me at all".

To me that seems like a straw that broke the camel's back. She screwed up with the texts, I've been picking up the slack while she goes on biz travel and eats extravagent dinners AND I'm the breadwinner! WTF.

I'm thinking today I'm going to tell her I'm done being the only one trying and I'm not bending over backwards to enable her work trips. I'm the principle earner and my job is going to be reprioritized b/c I've been neglecting it and being 100% commission this is effecting my earnings.

I also want to tell her that when I hugged her and she made that comment it made me feel like I have the ****tyiest wife on the planet and I just don't know if I want to work on this anymore.


(Married 19 years, S19 and D10)

I'm pissed.....


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Do you think the way you handled the texts had something to do with why she does not want to hug you now?


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

If I were her, I would divorce you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Hm. They were probably flirting and I agree it was inappropriate. That's definitely a red flag but doesn't necessarily mean they took it beyond being flirtatious.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Duguesclin said:


> If I were her, I would divorce you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What he did was protect his marriage, what he did was put his marriage first, he stop anything from possibly moving forward.....he is trying to work on this marriage, if you find something wrong that, than your right you should be divorced.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

jarhed said:


> I still earn 40% more than she does, but her job is much more demanding and she has to travel a day or so every couple of weeks to her customer's location.


But?



> She is really into her job and I have been super supportive, but it is like her life revolves around that job now. It is all she talks about - she cannot even hold a conversation about anything else. She stays on her computer working at night and on weekends.


But?



> I've recently pointed this out and told her we really need to work on our marriage b/c we are drifting. I've made attempts to do things together, be more romantic with her (even though she is not the romantic type).


Result?



> I put a recorder in her car and in her office and hired a PI to follow her when she went out of town last time.


Probably not salvageable, if you are spying on her every move.




> I told my wife what I did and said, "Guess I'm not crazy afterall". We brawled. She said I was ruining her career and she would probably gett fired. BS. She is doing fine still.


So, the idea is to fight each other and from that will come love?


> Now she is on the brink of getting a promotion and will be directly reporting to this guy. I've taped their conversations and it is all business - he is actually being chilly to her. But I still do not like it.


:surprise:


> So, since this mess occured I have made big attempts to work on us, but she is not really making any attemps.


Do the attempts to "work" on the relationship, involve pressure and force? There is no such thing as "working" on the relationship.


> we have a lot of sex and it is really great, I make sure she comes first - we do a lot of 69, etc- but we are not romantic or affectionate outside of the bedroom. And after sex there is no cuddling, etc. I tell her this is odd and I want more of a connection outside of the bedroom.


 Actions precede feelings.


> So, I told her yesterday as I was leaving to run a trail race that we needed to hug evey day and I gave her a hug. She made a b1tch face and said, "are we going to have to hug every time we see each other?".


 "We needed to" 

:scratchhead:


> I was pissed and sent her a text a few minutes aftter I left: "That was a b1tch thing to say. You dont have to hug me at all".


Pressure and force. This relationship is being held hostage.


> To me that seems like a straw that broke the camel's back. She screwed up with the texts, I've been picking up the slack while she goes on biz travel and eats extravagent dinners AND I'm the breadwinner! WTF.


You are the victim. As such, you can do no wrong.


> I'm thinking today I'm going to tell her I'm done being the only one trying and I'm not bending over backwards to enable her work trips. I'm the principle earner and my job is going to be reprioritized b/c I've been neglecting it and being 100% commission this is effecting my earnings.


I thought you were working on the relationship?




> I also want to tell her that when I hugged her and she made that comment it made me feel like I have the ****tyiest wife on the planet and I just don't know if I want to work on this anymore.


So, when you give great negativity, the idea is that she will feel like crap, and from that a great relationship will flow from?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I think your actions were excessive for the situation, but now the mistrust is there and the damage done. May as well get divorced now, as that's where you're headed eventually, IMO.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I think you were smart to be alert, but I agree you have taken it too far.

Try not belittling her hard work for the family also...

It sounds like she is working too much, and perhaps with a kind, understanding approach you could help her see the need to work less and enjoy her family on the evenings and weekends.

You have put her on the defensive over and over. She will most likely completely shut down to you soon. Time to consider changing your approach. 

How horrible it would be to throw away a 20 year marriage mostly because that boss sent her flirty texts. I hope you guys can work on this and be happy. All my best.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Your problem is you are trying to control her. You can't. You can tell how you feel, see how she reacts and then you decided what you want to do. Tell her what the consequences will be if she cheats, ask her is she having doubts. 

This is life there are no certainties. 

At this point you should apologizes for all your blow ups.

Your approach is wrong. You say when she doesn't hug me I feel like I have the ** wife on the planet. You should tell her how it makes you feel about her love for you. You are not being vulnerable with her. When you lash out at her she is going to be defensive. If you entreat her maybe she will understand where you are coming from. 

Before you blow up 20 years I think you need to write her a letter (I say this because you don't seem to have a handle on your anger right now). It needs to be like this. When you started flirting with this guy it worried me because of all the years we have had together. Do you need another man to flirt with you to make you feel good. Imagine I was away for days at a time and you found me flirting with strange women. What you you do it that was the case? How about our 20 years? When you don't want to hug me it makes me think maybe you don't love me anymore. If that is the case then maybe I should move on. 

Stuff like that. You doing this makes me feel like this. Not you are a jerk because you did this. That second will get you no where.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Xenote said:


> What he did was protect his marriage, what he did was put his marriage first, he stop anything from possibly moving forward.....he is trying to work on this marriage, if you find something wrong that, than your right you should be divorced.


Best not to start bombing before you even start negotiations.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I would advise you to breathe here my very tense friend... just breathe.

It could possibly benefit you to establish some boundaries here... perhaps in the ratio more heavily on yourself.

For her, I would recommend talking about her work and her work habits. 

Wanting to do a really good job and prove yourself is admirable as she has pride in her work and wants to show her mettle to her employer and at 5 years she is well established, but it cannot consume all other things around you and be healthy. Tell her she needs to set some realistic boundaries for her work outside of work... understand and share you understand she needs to spend some time each evening to prepare for the next day but this needs to be in the 30-45 minute time-frame, definitely not more than an hour and have her set a timer against it, not you, you are the balance, not the check. 

The flirty messages must go... friendly and professional is one thing, flirty and nightly/weekend exchanges should cease immediately. There is no reason if it is work that email on the company server should be the standard and I would expect somewhere in a company policy, and if not, should be in her policy... nothing says trust than to keep it in a written record so ask her to keep all communications there.

For you, you have the hard part from what you shared, I would recommend taking a step back and reviewing your trust.

Being angry will cloud your judgement... it already has and I base my feeling on that in the extent of your tracking her movements the way you are. Also, are you sure you are aware of the impact your dictating so many things is creating your distance with her? The best way to drive her further away is to tell her how she must react... take a step back and let it flow without expectations of what you will get. All you are doing is making her so tense that if every interaction with you feels like walking on eggshells, she will thread lightly. Simply relax more... wind down before approaching her and you may be surprised how easily she will want to approach you in return.

Conversation and communication about work should be contained in the first 15-20 minutes of "how was your day?" and then learn to direct it to more couples-centric conversations, go for walks (without phones) or play board-games, work on house projects, spend some time conflict-free.

Trust... this is a hard one for you I understand. Her messages were probably more friendly than you liked. The boundary I feel best for her should be yours as well, think about the best way to approach it with her so she understands the value of new behavior and not defend the old. Share with her that you know the out of town meetings include going out for drinks and dinners and that sales have the reputation as meat-markets looking for hookups at times but that this is not the norm for most honorable people and you are glad she is one of those honorable ones. Let her know truthfulness is a cornerstone of your relationship and that if she is going out in mixed company you would like to know as openness is trustworthy and you enjoy trusting her. If then she seems to be hiding things, ask her real-time but for goodness sakes ditch the PI until you have something worthy of proving, not perhaps her keeping things from you because she cannot trust your reaction.

Mostly stop looking at yourself the way you are... you do sound like a victim of your relationship from all your complaining. Please abandon that place, your disappointments are sabotaging your relationship by creating reactions that put pressure between you, not releasing pressure. Be that pillar of confidence, she will appreciate that so much more even when challenges come.

What I am sharing I have gleaned from both sides of my boundaries I set for myself... may they help you somehow as you review your past practices and think about your present.

Be with peace.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Your problem is you are trying to control her. You can't. You can tell how you feel, see how she reacts and then you decided what you want to do. Tell her what the consequences will be if she cheats, ask her is she having doubts.
> 
> This is life there are no certainties.
> 
> ...


Aye... "when you, I feel" and "when I, I feel", there is a lot of self understanding that needs to happen here.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

jarhed said:


> TEETERING HERE.....
> 
> *I still earn 40% more than she does*, but her job is much more demanding and she has to travel a day or so every couple of weeks to her customer's location.
> 
> * I'm the breadwinner!* WTF.


There are many red flags her. Drinking with coworkers, bar crawl etc. Extremely high risk behavior for a married person that has no boundaries. It always starts with the flirting. 


Try to put your emotions aside. Do you want to stay married to a person who does not respect you, that values her job over her family, and that would rather play with her coworkers than spend time with her husband and kids?

Why does she need to worry about housework? She knows you will do it. She wants to live the single, corporate climber life. She is at the right age and length of marriage to throw in the towel and leave her family. She did the mom thing. That was not enough. She found her new life and she no longer needs you. 

BTW, that you make more money thing and the i am the breadwinner thing are weak or meaningless arguments. She is as much a breadwinner as you. She does not see it like you do - that you are the provider and she follows. 

This is not about money. It is about power and control. She has the upper hand because she values the marriage less than you do. Sex is not an issue for her. She clearly knows she can get sex whenever she wants from others besides you. In fact, she actively has to decline it rather than seek it out. 

And don't be fooled. It is a lot easier to hide an office affair than you think. 

There is nothing wrong with the wife being a workaholic. Change the gender and most people would see nothing wrong with it. But often the wife puts up with it because she has less options. He provides and she needs the money to support the kids. Here, you both have options.

ETA: I posted this before reading OPs other threads starting 2012.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

You're getting sh1tloads of bad advice from several members on this thread. Move it over to Coping with Infidelity and get some better heads in the game, if you want my opinion.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Xenote said:


> What he did was protect his marriage, what he did was put his marriage first, he stop anything from possibly moving forward.....he is trying to work on this marriage, if you find something wrong that, than your right you should be divorced.


Let's reverse the roles. OP earns 40% less than his wife. His boss, a male, likes to go to strip clubs. OP does not care about it, but feels that if he does not go along he would be passed on for a promotion.

He also knows that his wife is dead against him going to strip clubs to the point of irrationality.

OP decides to go with his boss and not tell his wife.

OP's wife hides an audio recorder in his car and snoops on his phone.

She goes berserk when she finds out. She informs the boss's wife.

What should OP do?

He obviously cannot be straight with his wife. He cannot trust her.

I think this is how his wife feels about him.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

syhoybenden said:


> You're getting sh1tloads of bad advice from several members on this thread. Move it over to Coping with Infidelity and get some better heads in the game, if you want my opinion.


No need. He knows the drill. Go read his first post in his first thread.

She stopped intimacy at marriage. He put up with it for 15+ years. She stayed home changing diapers, housework and yoga. He thought she has the perfect life. (Wrong) He finally (after 1.5 decades??) gets pissed there is no intimacy (maybe it was no sex), even told her he can go elsewhere. He thinks he was the perfect husband. He checks out of the marriage, goes off to do his own things, then HE has a 3 year affair. AP wants him to choose. He goes back to family. All that in thread #1 Dec 2012.

IMO he defines himself in his role as provider. That is gone. He "put up" with the lack of intimacy because he was fulfilled in role of provider and father. Now he is no longer needed as a provider. 

No wonder she won't hug him. She didn't before. Then he cheats. I beat she triggers on hugs, thinking him hugging the OW.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Cripes. I did not know this history. Thanks. I'll be on my way.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

jarhed said:


> TEETERING HERE.....
> 
> Do any of y'all teeter between wanting to throw in the towel and trying to salavage a marraige?
> 
> ...


Couple things....

What is it that you really want? I mean, the obvious would be that you desire clossness, a connection with your wife...your current method, is actually kinda typical, counterproductive of course, but typical. It feels as if you are losing control, but what is really happening is your wife is recieving validation and praise from something other than you.....its okay ya know...you can never be everytjing to her, nor should you try. 

In simpler terms...as a prediction, since every action creates a reaction....

As you further attempt to dictate and control your wife...establish your dominance and reinforce your position as provider, benefactor, leader what have you...her probable reaction will be to further detach from you...think about it...she will need to prove to herself, and you, that she has value, has the ability to succeed, can provide for herself...see how that works?

You have a ton of baggage in your marriage...given the many things that have transpired...not insurmountable by any means but it will take work. 

Maybe a better method of providing the clossness and connection you desire would be to support her hard work. Enjoy her success and encourage her to achieve the goals she has set for herself. Show her that the world doesnt revolve around you and your needs. Words will never work, you will have to demonstrate this, over time. Simple kindness is a good first step. Treat her kindly and respectfully, as you would anyone you desire to be closs too. 

But, it all really comes back to a question. 

What do you actually want?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

MarriedDude said:


> As you further attempt to dictate and control your wife...establish your dominance and reinforce your position as provider, benefactor, leader what have you...her probable reaction will be to further detach from you...think about it...she will need to prove to herself, and you, that she has value, has the ability to succeed, can provide for herself...see how that works?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Psychological reactance......


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Wow. You destroyed your marriage with your affair. You apparently have no idea how much this hurt your wife. Now your wife has thrown herself into her work, probably because you never took the necessary steps to help her heal from your affair and now all your marriage problems are her fault? Did I get that right?

Looks to me that you have a lot of work to do to prove yourself and stop thinking only of yourself. Your wife has detached from you most likely because you destroyed her. 

What I see going on here is a complete lack of understanding of or care for your wife. Demanding hugs like she owes them to you is not the way to resolve this. There are deep, deep issues that need to be addressed and they start in your own heart, so you can learn how to properly love and treat a woman.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

syhoybenden said:


> Cripes. I did not know this history. Thanks. I'll be on my way.


Wrong response. Just because he is a WS does not mean he does not need help. He has a wife and kids. 

Help can come in the form of convincing him to leave, to free her for a better man.

Help can come in the form of convincing him not to abandon his family, since his wife (may) has stayed with him these years after the A.

Help can come in the form of helping the wife not cheat. 

I was only pointing out the he is familiar with TAM and with infidelity.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Duguesclin said:


> If I were her, I would divorce you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, great. The Tag Team are here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OP, you blew your marriage up.

Now your wife is flirting.

You need couple's and individual counselling.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hmm, so you had a three year affair and can't understand why there's no emotion behind sex. 

Why would there be? You made clear it's about sex when you fvcked another woman. 

YOU'RE the breadwinner with 40% more? Let's do some quick math here:

Let's she makes 50,000; that means you make 70,000. My hb and i have a bigger spread than that and I would never belittle him and his job by poo pooing him like that and declaring myself bread winner. 

Do her an enormous favor and leave. Maybe your ho is still available.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Okay, you are the same guy I said was not listening to his wife just a month or two ago. I wasn't the only one.

Are you surprised she wants nothing to do with you?


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Oh, wow. I didn't realize the OP had cheated on his poor stay-at-home-wife for 3 years. Sorry, hombre, but I can't muster any sympathy for you. You do know that it takes years for your wife to get over your betrayal, and only if you show genuine remorse and are doing the heavy lifting to help her heal? You do know that, right?


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

So, this has become a sh!t storm of a thread - understandably with our history.

Those who are judemental and want to bash me offer no help or insights and like making themselves feel righteous. 

Before the A I did much heavy lifting to make my marriage better. Some background: her mother was schitzo and this was in an era when little was known about the condition. Her parents had a horrible marriage and her childhood wasn't great. There was little communication in her home. I battle to get her to talk. (My mom was a psycologist so we talked about everything and I can't stand not talking about issues! - drives me nuts)


After the A I never dreamed of going back, but she convinced me to and for the sake her and the kids I went back and committed myself 1,000% to making this work. We went through 3 marriage couselors (She picked them and then decided she didn't like them when they had tough talks with her).

As a matter of fact, I asked TODAY if we could see a MC and she said, "I don't think MC will help us - we need to find another way". She has a career coach she wants me to talk to (via phone - she has never met). I agreed. 

I am and aside from the A have always been the driver behind communication, asking her how she wants to be loved, etc.

It isn't just me saying, "I want wife that does this or this" - I want her to be happy! I believe if she is happy things will be better between us.

As far as wanting control: I asked myself if I was threatened by her job sucess and maybe not needing me as much. While I still earn $70k more than she does and pay 100% of my son's tuition, the mortgage, etc she has more independance - this is a fact. 

If she were traveling for work and just doing the 9-5pm thing I would not have a problem. It is the going out after hours drinkin, etc that is the issue. Take it from somone who knows - alcohol and bars after work hours is a gateway to bad things. I didn't do it before the A and I won't do it now - it isnt appropriate. 

Someone mentioed boundaries: I set these boundaries for myself - no bars and going out, I expect that of her too. Do I say if you want this lifestyle Im out? How do I go about setting these boundaries without sounding threatening?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Dude...good luck.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

jarhed said:


> Someone mentioned boundaries: I set these boundaries for myself - no bars and going out, I expect that of her too. Do I say if you want this lifestyle Im out? How do I go about setting these boundaries without sounding threatening?



You can't... you are still way to angry to to see a humble path right now... and trust me, she sees your anger as clear as the dawn of each day. Until you can control your own triggers, boundaries will never work because you will never be convincing without calm.

Very little you can say to her about social boundaries with your past, it can be thrown back in your face quickly as the hypocrisy it would be, that is why I offered my suggestion to you when I spoke of trust.... if you cannot negotiate it, you sure as tomorrow will not dictate it. A three year affair is not trivial and you will have a hard time selling what is appropriate or not.

The best way to know if you can trust her is to trust her.

How would it be proven she can trust you today?

Then begin building on that...


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I agree that the after hours activities are a slippery slope and I doubt anyone would be particularly happy in a marriage where one spouse is either working or socialising with work mates and spending little time with them.

Your approach regarding the hugging seems very authoritarian. If she has not been affectionate for your entire marriage, ordering her to suddenly be affectionate is not going to be received well, and it should be of little surprise to you that her reaction was one of irritation rather than acceptance. What you said to her when you didn't get the response you wanted was nasty and very telling about how you treat her in general.

I also think approaching her bosses spouse was high-handed. You saw that because you couldn't get the desired response from her, you would go around her and force it to happen anyway.

The way you write about her, the things you've done, show a person who doesn't particularly care about his partner and only about getting what he wants when he wants it, regardless of how she feels.

Maybe she is working so much because she's not happy in the marriage.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

If you really did not want to go back to her after the affair, perhaps you should not have. If she wanted you back, and still wants you, she needs to make an effort to meet your needs, too.

Are you sure you still want to keep trying in this relationship? It is going to require some significant work on your part. Hers, too, but you have no control over that. You only have control over your own part.


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

MarriedDude said:


> Couple things....
> 
> What is it that you really want? I mean, the obvious would be that you desire clossness, a connection with your wife...your current method, is actuYES -- an intimate and close relationships with mutual kindness and respect.ally kinda typical, counterproductive of course, but typical. It feels as if you are losing control, but what is really happening is your wife is recieving validation and praise from something other than you.....its okay ya know...you can never be everytjing to her, nor should you try. Over the past 5 years I have been really supportive and those times when she lost jobs I was always there to pick her up. I brag on her accomplishments to our friends b/c she deserves it and I believe that her language of love is affirmation
> 
> ...





Emerging Buddhist said:


> You can't... you are still way to angry to to see a humble path right now... and trust me, she sees your anger as clear as the dawn of each day. Until you can control your own triggers, boundaries will never work because you will never be convincing without calm. I agree, while my anger has waned I've become frustrated that I want to make things better and she appears not to. Yesterday I asked her what I could do to make things better and told her the things I'd done, ie suggesting we hug more and do things together. She couldn't really suggest anything. I asked her how she was trying to make our marriage better and she said "I'm working on me and you just don't see the benefits". It's almost as if she's become heady or ****y with her new found power. I think self confidence is wonderful and encourage it. I've boosted her self confidence over the years and encouraged her to be more sure of herself as it relates to work. Now she seems to have this chip on her shoulder
> 
> Very little you can say to her about social boundaries with your past, it can be thrown back in your face quickly as the hypocrisy it would be, that is why I offered my suggestion to you when I spoke of trust.... if you cannot negotiate it, you sure as tomorrow will not dictate it. A three year affair is not trivial and you will have a hard time selling what is appropriate or not. We talked about this yesterday. I said I needed help in the area of trusting her. She did throw it up in my face. I pointed out that once I rededicated myself to her and the marriage I changed. I consciously bent over backwards to put her mind at ease if I saw there was a trigger. I offered up my phone, called her more often and eliminated going out without her to bars or staying out late unless it was a roadtrip for kayaking, backpacking, skiing, etc I want to trust her badly b/c I don't like being in this place. This is new to me (and I don't like it) - I don't like being suspicious and untrusting. This is frustrating to me. I also apologized to her and said this must have been how she felt
> 
> ...





breeze said:


> Your approach regarding the hugging seems very authoritarian. If she has not been affectionate for your entire marriage, ordering her to suddenly be affectionate is not going to be received well, and it should be of little surprise to you that her reaction was one of irritation rather than acceptance. What you said to her when you didn't get the response you wanted was nasty and very telling about how you treat her in general.I didn't order it. I think my words here paint me as a ball buster and I'm not. I playfully suggested we hug more. I'm very playful and kid alot. Not just with her but everyone.
> 
> I also think approaching her bosses spouse was high-handed. You saw that because you couldn't get the desired response from her, you would go around her and force it to happen anyway. I respectfully disagree. I would do it again. No job is more important than my marriage. The fact that this guy's wife thanked me and said I did the right thing reinforced my decision. She said he is 53 and acting like a single 30 year old on hi social media. My wife says he now wears his wedding ring and is not going out drinking late with all the minion like he used to
> 
> ...


absolutely. I've asked her to go out for drinks with me and our friends and she declines. But when she is working she is all about "let's go get a drink" and staying out late. Not a good sign


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

You really cannot blame her for holding a grudge in all this, perhaps the working on herself will release it so that "chip" will be whittled down in time. Also, she probably finds her confidence exhilarating considering the ego bust she had to experience at home and the doubts of successfully reentering the workforce. You are going to have to truly accept that the hurt you created has possibly caused more harm than you could have imagined. Would you be surprised if what she is doing now is "only for the children"? 

Every time you say "look what I'm doing to fix this" I am sure she is saying to herself "but you broke this to begin with". You are offering to repair, but the problem is more than just replacement... where is the guarantee... what warrantee can you offer in the repair? 

I have a car that was new when I got it and now it has some milage on it and I accept the little dings and scratches but I can trust the reliability, then somebody hits me and causes extensive damage... not enough to total it, but it can be repaired and it is, but I'll never look at it the same way I did before the damage and I'll think "is this car really worth putting the time and effort into it now? How reliable will it be in the future?" Sure, I'll keep driving it and keep the cheapest maintenance going on it, but I'll hesitate to sink time, effort, and money past a certain point. The analogy may not be perfect but it may possibly give you a little insight to your wife's world right now with you. I am not saying this is how it is, but I know how I would feel in her shoes.

If I hurt somebody through an affair, and apology would be incomplete without the emotional gnashing of teeth and ash on my head (I'm not Christian, but it is a fitting picture of repentance). It feels as there is still a lot of pride in your words, it might be best and follow her lead of self improvement by working on yourself in this area, and if you do, your behavior and actions will tell a better story than your words and in time things will improve by those actions.

For me, regaining broken trust is twofold... I have to let go of the disappointment and believe in what it can be and I cannot be afraid of any outcome after it is reestablished.

If you know how she handles the way you approach her and it is stressful, how can you change your approach?

You must see you are driving her further away from the emotional closeness you want to heal.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Richly given all of the facts that have come out, I honestly do not think that this marriage is in any way salvageable and further advocate that without lengthy commitment to MC, that a filing for mutual divorce is in the cards!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She likes drinking with her coworkers but not you and her friends. Thats probably because they are blowing smoke up her skirt and makes her feel attractive.
They're blowing smoke for a reason whether she admits it or not. Keep checking up on her.
Look up Marduk's post about how you mirror her behavior.She has you on a string now. See if she cares if you act like she does. The proof is in the pudding. I'm guessing she no longer cares for you.


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> She likes drinking with her coworkers but not you and her friends. Thats probably because they are blowing smoke up her skirt and makes her feel attractive.
> They're blowing smoke for a reason whether she admits it or not. Keep checking up on her.
> Look up Marduk's post about how you mirror her behavior.She has you on a string now. See if she cares if you act like she does. The proof is in the pudding. I'm guessing she no longer cares for you.


I've been checking up for the last 4-5 weeks since this happened. Hours of taped conversations, a PI (That was a knee jerk reaction I retained him, so I had to use the money - tracked her 2 days on biz trip where the guy was there too- nothing, even had cameras set up on her room). Nothing. Not even a hint of a flirt (taped conversation). She says he was flirting and she was playing the game and never would have let it progress. There was no reference to anything physical in the text messages, but he was definitely trying to get her on a trip and arrange bar crawls with her and the client and baseball games, etc>

My theory is that she attaches her self worth to this job now. She said her self confidence was low and the work people tell her how great a job she does and that validates her. 

We've been talking more and more over the past few days. The sex has been really good. We had it the day she went out of town and the day she returned, which was Thursday and then again on Saturday and Sunday. Our 10yr old was on a trip, so we had some extra free time. 

I think we can make this a lot better. She wants me to talk to her Shawman. I said sure. (If you'd have told me 5 years ago I'd be talking to a Shawman I'd have laughed at you).


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