# Why can't men really apologize?



## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


Not just men. Your husband is just like my wife when it comes to apologies. I don't get it either. But I have lived with it for 23 years. Other than that, how is the rest of your marriage?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sometimes, apologies can feel like weaknesses. Even when someone knows he/she is wrong, there is this feeling of weakness that comes up, and it becomes hard to say the words, ''I'm sorry.'' It isn't weak though, it shows strength.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> It isn't weak though, it shows strength.


 @deidre You give some of the best advice, but gotta disagree with you here. Some people just don't have the ability to say "I'm sorry".

BTW, I love the avatars you have been using especially the redheaded one.


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## Redactus (Nov 22, 2015)

It absolutely depends on the context. If you are wrong, then you should apologize. However, If you truly feel that you are right but your decision hurts somebody, you could apologize for the fact of hurting somebody's feelings. For example, you could say, "I'm sorry that you are hurt, but I did this for the following reasons.... and I do not believe my choice was wrong. Communication is key.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

If he hurts my feelings... And I tell him he did and why he did... I expect an apology bc I am hurt. And it's not about right or wrong in my opinion. It's like don't you care about my feelings? Don't you want to make me happy? Then Just say your sorry and you love me and hug me. The end. Instead it will carry on and on bc you can't apologize. It blows my mind that he is willing to carry it on and on, then be like I don't want to fight! It's like what! Then shut up and just say Your sorry!!
If my husband ever says... That hurt my feelings, I would right away feel bad and say sorry bc I would never want to hurt his feelings, or ever make him feel bad. It blows my mind that I saw you hurt my feelings because.... And his response is a rebuttal!


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I feel like my husband is literally incapable of apologizing. And I end up losing my temper and then I become the crazy one.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> @deidre You give some of the best advice, but gotta disagree with you here. Some people just don't have the ability to say "I'm sorry".


 That is true, but there are often reasons behind why people are the way they are, bad or good.  Not that we should excuse people of bad behaviors, however...just because they have reasons.



> BTW, I love the avatars you have been using especially the redheaded one.


lol thank you - the red headed one...my grandmother died last year, and she had long red hair in photos I've seen of her in her younger days, reminds me of her.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

If I back off, he goes on like nothing happened. 
I know that we need therapy for sure, we are just so busy it's hard to find time. However I'm forcing him to go because he doesn't want to. Just need to find the time and a therapist.
I can keep calm and articulate my point so well and he still doesn't get it. Sometimes I think he has passive aggressive personality. I just feel like he is making this this relationship impossible, and really hard.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


What would his apology mean to you and have you expressed that?

I think integrity of action combined with an apology or acknowledgement is where it's at. The apology is pointless if nothing changes. Way back in the day, my husband wouldn't apologize and it drove me nuts at times. What I learned was that it stemmed from his childhood. There were certain defense mechanisms in place. He started down the path of dealing with that stuff. Now, he has no issue either apologizing or acknowledging... with the action. It's a huge difference.

And for me, I can be fairly quick to apologize or express and mean it. However growing up British, I've needed to learn to say sorry when an apology is warranted rather than because it's raining today or some other thing that's out of my control.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

katiecrna;15247833... And it's not about right or wrong in my opinion. It's like don't you care about my feelings? Don't you want to make me happy? [/QUOTE said:


> Okay. This doesn't make sense. If he isn't wrong about whatever, than why would he need to apologize? So you're really saying that because you're upset then you must be right and he needs to apologize? Or you're saying that when you're right you just need an apology and you don't hold it over his head that he's wrong?
> 
> No I don't think it's his responsibility to make you happy. It's his responsibility to be a good partner. If that makes you happy, then fine. You can't make someone else responsible for your moods. It's a recipe for a dysfunctional relationship.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I certainly can and do apologize to my wife.

But only if I am wrong, not just because my wife's feelings are hurt about something where I have done nothing wrong.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


Is it an apology you want or a long chain of them. If everything he does is wrong, and you remind him of these "errors", he likely closes his ears. When he really does screw up he will not bother to say he is sorry because he then must continually apologize. He must admit that he IS A "flawed husband".

Some spouses continue to pick at the others perceived scab, keeping it from healing. After a while the other spouse just grits his/her teeth and refuses to acknowledge the sore.

Is this you?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Hmm this is interesting and I appreciate everyone's input. I think I am very emotional, and he is very insensitive. So is it wrong when he is insensitive? To me I think he owes me an apology, it's not that he did anything WRONG, but what he did wasn't nice if that makes sense. 
I think my bigger issue is that I feel a lack of respect from him. And my trigger point is when he says somthing insensitive and my feelings get hurt and I tell him I'm upset or sad or whatever and he doesn't acknowledge my feelings. He is not responsible for my feelings but there are consequences for our actions. 
I feel like he can just be a **** sometimes... And it's not that he is "wrong", but he's just insensitive and mean sometimes. Then he expects me to be happy and loving and sleep with him. There seems to be a disconnect.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Give us an example of what he does that you think is mean and insensitive, and we can give you more specific feedback.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Bigger issues afoot than saying sorry.

He sounds a bit immature in the emotional area.

BTW. Not a gender specific issue at all.

You are probably trying to keep yourself from being pushed away emotionally by his attitude which is causing you terrible frustration because you are trying to save your relationship as he keeps harming it.

Stop and collect yourself.

If he won't work to improve, you can't make him and even though I know it is probably breaking your heart, you might have to let him go.

If you continue for too long in a relationship like this, enough damage could accumulate to make cheating seem like a good idea or you might become a lifeless shell of the woman you use to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


This is a nice way of letting your husband off the hook. If you blame it on him being a man, then it is not really his fault. However, such gross generalizations are (whether about men or women) nonsense. (I am an Englishman and can look back on only one English girlfriend who ever said sorry without a "but" or a "that you're taking it all wrong").

There are some people who just will not apologize. There are also people to whom I have learnt not to apologize, those who will never concede anything themselves and will always use it an a weapon in arguments. 

Put the sexist excuse away. If your man is childish, it is his fault and not the shape of his genitals.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Not just men. Your husband is just like my wife when it comes to apologies. I don't get it either. But I have lived with it for 23 years. Other than that, how is the rest of your marriage?


I'm glad it was the first reply. My marriage is the same. I'm very quick to apologize, my wife is the complete opposite. 

How about we not stereotype an entire gender for the behavior of some?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

larry.gray said:


> I'm glad it was the first reply. My marriage is the same. I'm very quick to apologize, my wife is the complete opposite.
> 
> How about we not stereotype an entire gender for the behavior of some?


Disordered people often have PTSD. It's an incredible struggle to get them to apologize for anything.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I only apologise when I know I'm wrong and when I mean it, but if I start apologising for everything even when I don't mean it then the value of my apologies will only end up less.

I would rather a stubborn and argumentative woman than a woman telling me "sorries" and never mean it.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> I feel like my husband is literally incapable of apologizing. And I end up losing my temper and then I become the crazy one.


You have described my 28yr relationship with my wife, it never got any better, only worse. :frown2: It seems like I'm the one who has to always apologize even when I'm not in the wrong. 


In the 28 years we have been together, she's only apologized twice, because I demanded an apology. You are right, it's made me crazy too!:surprise:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> I only apologise when I know I'm wrong and when I mean it, but if I start apologising for everything even when I don't mean it then the value of my apologies will only end up less.
> 
> I would rather a stubborn and argumentative woman than a woman telling me "sorries" and never mean it.


Agreed.

Sorry to break it to you OP, there are MEN and WOMEN who cannot effectively apologize, this is not just a "man" issue


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i think the inability or reluctance to apologize comes from a place of insecurity.

either insecurity in the relationship, or insecurity in a broader personal sense.
btw, the spouse may promote that insecurity by being overly critical putting the other spouse always on the defensive.

when we refuse to apologize, what we are showing is an inward sense that "i'm not ok with myself. every apology cuts me down a notch."

if i'm secure and confidant with myself and with my spouse, when i screw up or even if i did not necessarily mean harm, but hurt my wife, i should be
ready and willing with an apology. why shouldn't i? after all, i know my screw-ups and immature moments are rare, so when i do fail, i own up.

by lack of apology, i am admitting to myself that i realize i'm probably an immature dolt and pretending nobody else knows it. 
either that, or my wife is constantly on my @ss and an apology will just encourage her.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

OP, can you give a specific example of an argument between you and your H. Your descriptions are pretty vague/general.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I apologize if I mess up and it's a big deal. Otherwise I don't waste my time sweating the little things and I would never just apologize to appease an emotional woman because it shifts the power dynamic in a way I'm not comfortable with.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Without a concrete example it's really hard to say what's going on. We know the OP considers herself emotional and her husband an a$$, but that's about it. 

It could be that it's more about the tone he takes with her than anything else. She could be in the wrong about something and if he comments on it in an unkind way that could deserve an apology, except he's not apologizing if he's right or believes he's right.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I think Katie is pretty resolved on this. She hasn't returned today. But, I see this kind of thing so often that I think advice to the forum in general is not out of line. 

Way back when you were in Grade School you and some other guy in your class got into a playground scuffle. You were caught, and some older woman forced the two of you to apologize. Her intentions were good, to help you learn good manners, but her action was blatantly ineffective. You knew what caused the fight and you knew that taking action was not just fun but necessary, you could still feel the sting of his last strike and the gravel in your knee. And here you are repeating meaningless words like it is some magic spell that will make everything better. But it doesn't work. In fact all that the woman achieved was to put off the conflict until it was out of her jurisdiction. 

Fast forward to Katie. Who for some reason insists on hearing those magic words. You know and the proof is en-grained in your memory that this is just putting off what needs to be resolved. Not rug swept. Some do gooders are telling you that you are wrong, impolite, or have low EQ, but you have been there. And you know you are RIGHT. What you have forgotten, and What Katie is quickly on the road to forgetting is that being Right is not the goal here. You can be Right all day and all night and It won't fix the relationship. He can offer empty apology over and over and it won't create happiness. I'm sorry those words aren't that magic. 

Here is the key to this. Being happy is more important than being Right. Way more important than winning an argument. In fact the only reason you should have to force you Rightness is safety. I'm a-O-K with pulling her back if she is going to get hurt. 

To the men: Figure out somehow, where you need to stop protecting your ego and start protecting the relationship. That is strong.

To the Women: I hope you are catching on that his apology is not often going to look like those magic words you learned on the playground. Very often the man has apologized, but the woman didn't see, perceive, accept the apology, because it was in an unexpected form. Stop waiting for it. Start healing the relationship.
MN


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I apologize when I'm wrong.

Which is to say that it's never happened.

:lol: :rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


Funny, my W does not apologize effectively either.


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## captainstormy (Jun 15, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> If he hurts my feelings... And I tell him he did and why he did... I expect an apology bc I am hurt. And it's not about right or wrong in my opinion. It's like don't you care about my feelings? Don't you want to make me happy? Then Just say your sorry and you love me and hug me. The end. Instead it will carry on and on bc you can't apologize. It blows my mind that he is willing to carry it on and on, then be like I don't want to fight! It's like what! Then shut up and just say Your sorry!!
> If my husband ever says... That hurt my feelings, I would right away feel bad and say sorry bc I would never want to hurt his feelings, or ever make him feel bad. It blows my mind that I saw you hurt my feelings because.... And his response is a rebuttal!


He hurt your feelings, but was he wrong?

You apologize for being wrong, not because someone feels you should.

Sent from my PURE XL using Tapatalk


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Just a little thing can become a big thing bc he can't just be like... Yea I'm sorry I said that. For example... I'm exhausted, and tired from the stresses of the week, it's Saturday, I clean the house and did some hw and I finally want to just sit down and watch tv (which I rarely watch). He comes in and is grumpy bc he is tired and stressed too. I was watching some trashy tv show on mtv, and he kept going on and on about how stupid that show is and blah blah, I told him I was just relaxing and I was hooked on this episode. He kept going back and forth to the bedroom and to the living room where I was watching tv and he wouldn't shut up about the show. Then he started to get personal and say things like... Your an educated person blah blah how can you watch this, but the way he said it, it was mean and belittling. I was just freakin tired and I told him that but he wouldn't stop being nasty. Then he finally was like I can't watch this trash anymore and grabbed the remote and changed the channel to soccer, then laid on the couch and instantly fell asleep. I just said something to him about how after a long week stressful week I just want to relax and chill and idc if he doesn't like the show I'm watching he doesn't have to take it so far and talk down to me... And he couldn't accept this and didn't acknowledge that he did anything wrong. The more I tried to explain how it made me feel the more frustrated I got bc he was being so stubborn and couldn't just be like, yes I'm sorry that was a little too much. So it became thing big thing over nothing! And I told him that if he just acknowledged that maybe he took it too far this argument didn't have to go on and on for so long. 
This is an example about somthing so simple that is not a big deal and I understand that, but it's like he can't even see where I am coming from. He's like no, this is a trashy show and you are educated therefore I didn't say or do anything wrong! It's exhausting honestly.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

My husband doesn't want to do therapy bc he is so busy and doesn't want to spend his few time off doing therapy. I don't know what he wants to do to help this marriage. I honestly think he just wants me to not make such a big deal out of things. But I don't feel like I do, but it always becomes such a big issue. It's like, if he thinks I am criticizing him at all he goes on super defense mode and becomes a different person who is incapable of empathy. I don't think I criticize, I'm like chill all I am saying is you were a little harsh.... And he takes this as... I think he is a horrible husband and can't do anything right. But I don't think this at all but there is no convincing him.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

We all have different needs in our marriage. My husbands needs are more physical... In a way he likes when I take care of the house and laundry and cook and clean. That makes him happy that I take care of him by providing a nice home. Of course he is capable of doing these things but it's just what he appreciates. For me it's completely emotional . What I need is more listening to me, understand me, hug me when I'm sad or whatever. I 100% feel loved when he knows I had a bad day and he is there for me. But if I come home and he did the laundry like that doesn't make me feel better if he doesn't acknowledge my feelings and my rough day. I just really emotional I guess and words don't describe how it feels when I'm understood. Anyway... I feel like I satisfy for the most part his need of me keeping the house nice for him but he doesn't come close to satisfying my emotional needs. He usually makes me feel worse when j come to him. And yes, I have told him these things and all he says is... I just disagree, or I'm doing the best I can or sorry I'm not good enough. He makes it about himself usually. But he doesn't ever seem to understand if that makes sense


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> Just a little thing can become a big thing bc he can't just be like... Yea I'm sorry I said that. For example... I'm exhausted, and tired from the stresses of the week, it's Saturday, I clean the house and did some hw and I finally want to just sit down and watch tv (which I rarely watch). He comes in and is grumpy bc he is tired and stressed too. I was watching some trashy tv show on mtv, and he kept going on and on about how stupid that show is and blah blah, I told him I was just relaxing and I was hooked on this episode. He kept going back and forth to the bedroom and to the living room where I was watching tv and he wouldn't shut up about the show. Then he started to get personal and say things like... Your an educated person blah blah how can you watch this, but the way he said it, it was mean and belittling. I was just freakin tired and I told him that but he wouldn't stop being nasty. Then he finally was like I can't watch this trash anymore and grabbed the remote and changed the channel to soccer, then laid on the couch and instantly fell asleep. I just said something to him about how after a long week stressful week I just want to relax and chill and idc if he doesn't like the show I'm watching he doesn't have to take it so far and talk down to me... And he couldn't accept this and didn't acknowledge that he did anything wrong. The more I tried to explain how it made me feel the more frustrated I got bc he was being so stubborn and couldn't just be like, yes I'm sorry that was a little too much. So it became thing big thing over nothing! And I told him that if he just acknowledged that maybe he took it too far this argument didn't have to go on and on for so long.
> This is an example about somthing so simple that is not a big deal and I understand that, but it's like he can't even see where I am coming from. He's like no, this is a trashy show and you are educated therefore I didn't say or do anything wrong! It's exhausting honestly.


Ok, now we have enough information to get somewhere.

Here's how I see this.

If you are doing everything around the house that you need to be doing, and then want to watch some trashy TV (or non-trashy, for that matter), you have the right to do this. Of course he has the right to think (and even say) that it doesn't do anything for him, but he shouldn't ride you about it.

So he actually *is *wrong in making a big deal out of something unimportant, and should apologize for doing that.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. *My mom says... That's how all men are.* What is the deal guys please help me understand!


Your mum is wrong. It is not a gender specific trait, it is a human trait that some people seem to have. IME it is more prevalent in people that are generally unable to take responsibility for their own actions.

My first husband was a non apologiser. My current partner absolutely apologises when he stuffs up and then he will go on to learn why the issue happened and what to do to prevent it happening again.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Holland said:


> My first husband was a non apologiser. My current partner absolutely apologises when he stuffs up and then he will go on to learn why the issue happened and what to do to prevent it happening again.


Same experience here. The difference in treatment is like night and day. Respect between two mature people is cyclical and reciprocal.

I think the OP's husband has a very basic lack of respect. I just don't understand the behavior. I didn't understand it when I once dealt with it and I'd never catch myself accepting it now.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

And OP you are adding adding emotional chaos to his lack of respect. Get control of that emotional hurricane and be more directional. For instance, instead of letting him get you all wound up and hanging on waiting for him to apologize... Be more clear about what you will and will not tolerate. Rock him back on his heels if you have to. You dont have to accept poor attitudes, but make sure you get rid of your own poor attitudes if you are going to hold him to the same standard.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

Maybe he just doesn't put much stock in the words 'I'm sorry', I know I don't.

I hardly ever apologise, because I find it pointless. It irritates me when people tell me they're sorry. My opinion is 'dont tell me you're sorry, that changes nothing, if you are sorry then change your behaviour'. So when I'm sorry, I wont say it, but I will change my behaviour.

Then again, it sounds like your husband isn't changing the way he behaves so why not concentrate on fixing that rather than the words?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

JJG said:


> Maybe he just doesn't put much stock in the words 'I'm sorry', I know I don't.
> 
> I hardly ever apologise, because I find it pointless. It irritates me when people tell me they're sorry. My opinion is 'dont tell me you're sorry, that changes nothing, if you are sorry then change your behaviour'. So when I'm sorry, I wont say it, but I will change my behaviour.
> 
> Then again, it sounds like your husband isn't changing the way he behaves so why not concentrate on fixing that rather than the words?


Excellent point... I see room for improvement in both of your attitudes towards each other.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> Just a little thing can become a big thing bc he can't just be like... Yea I'm sorry I said that. For example... I'm exhausted, and tired from the stresses of the week, it's Saturday, I clean the house and did some hw and I finally want to just sit down and watch tv (which I rarely watch). He comes in and is grumpy bc he is tired and stressed too. I was watching some trashy tv show on mtv, and he kept going on and on about how stupid that show is and blah blah, I told him I was just relaxing and I was hooked on this episode. He kept going back and forth to the bedroom and to the living room where I was watching tv and he wouldn't shut up about the show. Then he started to get personal and say things like... Your an educated person blah blah how can you watch this, but the way he said it, it was mean and belittling. I was just freakin tired and I told him that but he wouldn't stop being nasty. Then he finally was like I can't watch this trash anymore and grabbed the remote and changed the channel to soccer, then laid on the couch and instantly fell asleep. I just said something to him about how after a long week stressful week I just want to relax and chill and idc if he doesn't like the show I'm watching he doesn't have to take it so far and talk down to me... And he couldn't accept this and didn't acknowledge that he did anything wrong. The more I tried to explain how it made me feel the more frustrated I got bc he was being so stubborn and couldn't just be like, yes I'm sorry that was a little too much. So it became thing big thing over nothing! And I told him that if he just acknowledged that maybe he took it too far this argument didn't have to go on and on for so long.
> This is an example about somthing so simple that is not a big deal and I understand that, but it's like he can't even see where I am coming from. He's like no, this is a trashy show and you are educated therefore I didn't say or do anything wrong! It's exhausting honestly.


The show is a little thing. His behavior isn't. He's acting like a tool. Don't argue with him. Just say, "When you stop acting like a d!ck we can hang out together" and leave the room. Besides, watching soccer isn't exactly a high intellectual pursuit. I thought you were going to say he turned off the TV and started reading some Shakespeare. 

I agree with what others have said about the apology. It means nothing without actions to back it up.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

JJG said:


> Maybe he just doesn't put much stock in the words 'I'm sorry', I know I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, it sounds like your husband isn't changing the way he behaves so why not concentrate on fixing that rather than the words?



He can't fix a problem he doesn't acknowledge or understand. Which is why I try to explain it to him but no matter what he doesn't see the problem or see that he was being Insensitive.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> He can't fix a problem he doesn't acknowledge or understand. Which is why I try to explain it to him but no matter what he doesn't see the problem or see that he was being Insensitive.


He will understand it when your feet start walking.


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## Bitteratwomen (Jun 21, 2014)

Ive experienced the opposite. Ive never met a woman that could apologize for anything, even when facts show she was wrong. Maybe its the areas Ive lived in.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> I was watching some trashy tv show on mtv, and he kept going on and on about how stupid that show is and blah blah, I told him I was just relaxing and I was hooked on this episode. He kept going back and forth to the bedroom and to the living room where I was watching tv and he wouldn't shut up about the show. Then he started to get personal and say things like... Your an educated person blah blah how can you watch this, but the way he said it, it was mean and belittling. I was just freakin tired and I told him that but he wouldn't stop being nasty. Then he finally was like I can't watch this trash anymore and grabbed the remote and changed the channel to soccer, then laid on the couch and instantly fell asleep. I just said something to him about how after a long week stressful week I just want to relax and chill and idc if he doesn't like the show I'm watching he doesn't have to take it so far and talk down to me... And he couldn't accept this and didn't acknowledge that he did anything wrong.


This is very controlling behaviour. If it is a pattern with him, I'd say he is abusive towards you.

Being mean or belittling *is* doing something wrong, and if he can't apologize for that, and keeps insisting that he is in the right, then I'd suggest you think very seriously about how to better protect yourself.

Personally, I would walk. Far!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> i think the inability or reluctance to apologize comes from a place of insecurity.
> 
> either insecurity in the relationship, or insecurity in a broader personal sense.
> btw, the spouse may promote that insecurity by being overly critical putting the other spouse always on the defensive.
> ...


Agreed! And the insecure person will often use the refusal to apologize as a power play, a way of keeping the upper hand while putting the other person down.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> He can't fix a problem he doesn't acknowledge or understand. Which is why I try to explain it to him but no matter what he doesn't see the problem or see that he was being Insensitive.


Oh, he sees the issue. He's just digging in his heels because he doesn't want to change. He's waiting for you to change! 

So stop explaining already and move on to the next phase. You can state (calmly) "I'm never going to be okay with this d!ck behavior. I'm not going to explain it or argue about it anymore. If you want me, you won't do it any more."


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

OP, his behavior you detailed is controlling and abusive. Consider reading "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans, and "Boundaries" by Townsend and ????.



No shame in feeling hurt or upset.



Understandable you want him to see how he mistreated you and apologize. However, much more important for your happiness and the viability of your marriage is that you obtain knowledge about boundaries, limits, and verbal abuse, so that you can see his bad behavior as it is happening for what it is, and so your natural reaction in the moment and hours or days afterwards convincingly conveys he has crossed a limit you value enough to enforce.



If you get duped into believing somehow his behavior is 'typical male' or that you should feel ashamed for being sensitive to it, or if you convince yourself it is something you are strong enough to endure so you might as well be quiet about it to keep the peace, then you will likely see the problem grow -- and, simultaneously, you would lose more and more of yourself, especially your self esteem and resiliency.

Don't settle for this. Don't focus on convincing him to see it your way and change right now. Equip yourself. Train yourself. Know what your limits are and feel in your bones that you are worthy of respect and loving behavior.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> OP, his behavior you detailed is controlling and abusive. Consider reading "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans, and "Boundaries" by Townsend and *Cloud*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:nerd:


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

OP, I didn't read through all the threads. but how old are both of you ? also how long married ?

We only get your side of this so .... I have to wonder if you are making a big deal out of something he sees as insignificant ?
MY X wife was bad about this . 
It sounds like you both need marriage counseling .


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

It sounds like you want him to apologize when he doesn't feel he is in the wrong. This seems to be an ineffective tactic, to force an insincere apology from someone who isn't ready to give it. Man, women, or kid:

Don't Force Kids to Say They're*Sorry

it does seem like it just doesn't resolve conflict. Your communication with each other could use some work. His behavior seems a little mean in this one incident, but isn't outside of what I've seen a married couple say to each other. It's tough, because when you live together for a long time, little things that wouldn't bug you at the beginning of a relationship start to really grate. Now, it's all well and good for you guys to get along when everything is perfect, but when you're both tired (like the situation you described) maybe it'd be a good idea to shelve the discussion until you both have had some sleep and are in a better place mentally to where you can talk about it without getting upset. Sometimes I need distance from an argument, and to really think about it, before I can determine if I was in the wrong, or if this is going to be the battle that I choose, or if it's maybe not a big deal, and something I can let go. Sounds like this incident really upset you, though, so it's worth trying to talk over it calmly the next day and ask without a huge amount of emotion, what it was about that situation that caused him to snap at you? Maybe own that you were tired and had a short fuse that day, but say that what he said felt belittling, and really hurt your feelings, and that you think it would go a long way if he would apologize for that. Ask him what he thinks.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I never ask for an apology. If you have to ask it means absolutely nothing.

instead why not confront him when hes acting that way.


something like why are you so pi$$y today. I don't care if you think what I watch is trashy. I feel a lot of what you watch is not my cup of tea but I never try to make you feel bad about it. your trying to bully me and I don't appreciate it


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This is a genderless topic.. it's not just men.. my experience with my husband is very different.. he has ALWAYS been quick to apologize, wanting to make something right , if his conscience bothers him.. he would own up to that.. I very much respect this.. and it goes a long way in marital harmony.. on both sides....

I am like this too.. though more hard headed over him.. with less patience.. yet I am quick to admit my faults.. 

Sounds your mother and you have had similar experiences with men...so your worldview is that all men are like this.. 

It's an unfortunate human condition for many...a lack of humility.. 

The thing is : True humility shows strength in character -when one owns their faults and is self aware enough to admit that before those they care about , this builds bridges & emotionally heals many ills.. But people don't like to look within, it's easier to blame others.. so they are not responsible, or they delude themselves to think this.. while their relationships slowly wither.. it's very frustrating being in a relationship with someone like this..


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

chillymorn said:


> I never ask for an apology. If you have to ask it means absolutely nothing.
> 
> instead why not confront him when hes acting that way.


 I agree with this.. we may feel someone owes us an apology.. but we can't make someone respect us, or care about us...and if they do.. they are just plain stubborn headed... . 

Asking for it, I also feel it renders it meaningless.. is it really heartfelt then? Or just going through the motions to appease, it surely removes it's "intent".... at least for me.. 

Though stating how you feel about the situation in the moment.. nothing wrong with that... speak your peace.. if this doesn't resonate with him.. move him to see his ways.. what else can you do.. it's like beating your head against a wall. :banghead:


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

joannacroc;15266193[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-j-bennett-md/dont-force-kids-to-say-th_b_3551603.html said:


> Don't Force Kids to Say They're*Sorry[/url]


Better than average Huff post. What you have posted is a lot of what I was trying to say earlier. This childhood experience doesn't teach us very well how to handle conflict. At best it is a modeling of acceptable behavior. Kids would be better taught to understand and express their real emotions. 

How can we handle real and important emotions if we are rugsweeping and lying about how we feel. Sure at 3 or 5 or even 12, all you may get is I'm really mad right now, or I'm really hurt right now, but isn't that a step in the right direction?

Would our OP have been happier had her Husband said, "I'm frustrated, because I wanted to be with you and everything you want to do is boring"? or did she really need "Oops I hurt your feelings" ? Which statement would help resolve the situation, and prevent further episodes?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

How do I enforce boundaries? If I draw and line with acceptable and unacceptable behavior, say my husband crosses that line. I tell him that it's unacceptable for him to treat me that way bc blah blah blah. I be firm and stand up for myself. But I always do this, and he doesn't see my side, so how am I suppose to enforce boundaries? And I supose to give them the silent treatment or "punish" him is another way? This is my problem, yesterday again we got into a fight. I had a perfect reason why I was upset and articulated my view well, I was firm and stood my group. He didn't agree wth me, complained that he didn't want to fight on his one day off, and that was that, he went to bed bc it got late and we got nothing done. I can't force him to understand but at the same time what am I suppose to do?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Oh, he sees the issue. He's just digging in his heels because he doesn't want to change. He's waiting for you to change!
> 
> So stop explaining already and move on to the next phase. You can state (calmly) "I'm never going to be okay with this d!ck behavior. I'm not going to explain it or argue about it anymore. If you want me, you won't do it any more."




I agree with this but it's the next phase that I struggle with. I always firmly tell him it's unacceptable behavior and he needs to change for me to stay in this relationship... Nothing changes. I don't know how to set boundaries. I mean when he crosses them, then what do I do? Nothing I say makes a difference with him, and he turns it around somehow and makes it about him and switches subjects somehow.


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## metallicaluvr (Feb 25, 2016)

the answer to this is simple: male ego.
source: I'm male.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Mr. Nail said:


> Better than average Huff post. What you have posted is a lot of what I was trying to say earlier. This childhood experience doesn't teach us very well how to handle conflict. At best it is a modeling of acceptable behavior. Kids would be better taught to understand and express their real emotions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would be so happy if her said I wanted to be with you but everything you do is boring. At least he is telling me how he feels and we can make adjustments. He never tells me how he feels about anything, except that he disagrees with me.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with this.. we may feel someone owes us an apology.. but we can't make someone respect us, or care about us...and if they do.. they are just plain stubborn headed... .
> 
> Asking for it, I also feel it renders it meaningless.. is it really heartfelt then? Or just going through the motions to appease, it surely removes it's "intent".... at least for me..
> 
> Though stating how you feel about the situation in the moment.. nothing wrong with that... speak your peace.. if this doesn't resonate with him.. move him to see his ways.. what else can you do.. it's like beating your head against a wall. :banghead:




Exactly, I feel like I do the best I can to articulate my feelings about the situation but it's like talking to a rock.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Let's not confuse the various steps in this process:

1. To admit to having done the wrongdoing. There are a lot people who engage in selective sight, hearing and memory. And then there are those who wil refuse to say that they did whatever even in the face of photos, videos, signed whatevers and so on....

2. To get someone to apologise: Even if they admit to doing what WE consider as wrong, they may not think so. My sister keeping an ex boyfriend informed of my activities to make it easier for him to stalk me (back in the pre digital age) is met with "I can be friends with whomever the he!! I choose. 

You have to accept that you will not get an apology out of that person. Better, IMO, to do something (legal and that won't lose you friends) that will make them wish that they had apologised a long time. Sometimes finding a third party in the situation whose opinion they value can make the difference.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

You said this earlier in the thread...


katiecrna said:


> *Sometimes I think he has passive aggressive personality. I just feel like he is making this this relationship impossible, and really hard.*


Can you share what some of these arguments are about.. the exchanges...so we can weigh in... how he is completely blowing you off, not caring how you feel. 

I thought this was a good article.. all about the passive aggressive male...

>> The Boomerang Relationship: Passivity, Irresponsibility and Resulting Partner Anger


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

katiecrna said:


> How do I enforce boundaries? If I draw and line with acceptable and unacceptable behavior, say my husband crosses that line. I tell him that it's unacceptable for him to treat me that way bc blah blah blah. I be firm and stand up for myself. But I always do this, and he doesn't see my side, so how am I suppose to enforce boundaries? And I supose to give them the silent treatment or "punish" him is another way? This is my problem, yesterday again we got into a fight. I had a perfect reason why I was upset and articulated my view well, I was firm and stood my group. He didn't agree wth me, complained that he didn't want to fight on his one day off, and that was that, he went to bed bc it got late and we got nothing done. I can't force him to understand but at the same time what am I suppose to do?


I know I keep throwing articles & books at you.. but the explaining in many of these could help ...this book will help you understand why you & he are Stuck on this merry go 'round...and can't get past where you are...giving you new ways to respond to his behavior - to enforce your own Boundaries..as really this would be the 1st step in getting his attention.. seeing the change in YOU.. not harping on him anymore.. but consequences you have in your own control.. Something like that... anyway.. 

>> Boundaries in Marriage: Henry Cloud, John Townsend: Books



> Learn when to say yes and when to say no--to your spouse and to others--to make the most of your marriage . Only when a husband and wife know and respect each other’s needs, choices, and freedom can they give themselves freely and lovingly to one another.
> 
> Boundaries are the “property lines” that define and protect husbands and wives as individuals. Once they are in place, a good marriage can become better, and a less-than-satisfying one can even be saved. Drs. Henry Cloud and John Townsend, counselors and authors of the award-winning best-seller Boundaries, show couples how to apply* the 10 laws of boundaries* that can make a real difference in relationships.
> 
> ...


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

This is our cycle... My husband does somthing wrong (i.e. Buy a car even though I told him not to, the TV thing above, he will do things that we both discuss he shouldn't like talk to him parents about our finances, like making decisions without telling me for example renewing his cellphone plan with HIS MOTHER even though we talked about is going on a plan together, my other post about Valentine's Day". 
So I tell him why I'm upset/mad and I explain it. He gets defensive, denies it, says he disagrees, starts deflecting blame pointing the finger at me trying to switch the subject. I then explain why I'm upset and how it makes me feel. He again disagrees and denies everything. Then he try's to make it about him... I'm the worst husband ever, I work so hard and this is my one day off i don't want to fight, I can never make you happy, he does this all the time so he doesn't have to admit to what he does. I respond to this why explaining more, usually I get emotional and cry bc I just so frustrated how he can't see it, and he always makes it about himself, and how he doesn't want to always fight and he's so tired and blah blah. We literally get no where and one of two things happen, I loose my temper and flip out of him and he gets mad and now I'm the bad one, or nothing changes, I get so frustrated and that's it... We never come to a conclusion and I continue to be mad until I just let it go bc I don't want to be mad forever. So he never admits or acknowledges any wrong doings, and we fight about the same thing over and over, and in the end nothing changes. He literally does whatever he wants to do bc he somehow gets away with it.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

@SimplyAmorous thanks so much for the article. This is 100% our relationship. And I do my best to talk straight to him and re direct him when he try's to deflect and switch subjects but nothing ever changes. I'm so aware of his tatics that I point them out as they happen to him bc I have showed him information about passive aggressive personality, so during a fight I always tell him, stop switching subjects, let tackle this one issue at a time, or stop being passive aggressive and let's just talk normally without getting sarcastic, and I end up being a therapist kind of to him and kind of putting him below me if that makes sense. We just had a fight, and he was crossing his arms, looking down and when I made a point about somthing he wouldn't say anything, so I would be like do you understand or do you agree with that? And he would nod his head or be like okay! Then I have to be mommy and I told him, stop acting like w child, look at me when we have a discussion, show my some respect and contribute to this conversation, don't nod your head and say one word things like OK. It's like I'm so aware of what he is doing and why he is doing it bc I've read so much on this passive aggressive problem and his behavior always repeats itself during conflict that I know it's going to happen before it does. 
I'm sure it's not good for me to "mother" him or talk down to him, but I honestly have to bc his Behavior is so childish it pushes me over the edge! And at one point he literally walked to the stairs and sat on them during our conversation, (so I couldn't see him while we were taking!). I had to tell him can you please look at me when we talk! Show me some freakin respect! I don't want to treat you like a child so stop acting like one. Can't we have w conversation like a normal adult husband and wife? It's just really difficult to deal with this behavior. I know we need therapy but right now that is just unable to happy bc how busy we are.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Your husband sounds like he has a personality disorder, many people like this tend to be passive-agressive.

LOVING A BORDERLINE - Inside the BPD Odyssey


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

WHO'S DOING YOUR DIRTY WORK? Deconstructing Passive Aggression


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

metallicaluvr said:


> the answer to this is simple: male ego.
> source: I'm male.


If you have an ego problem, that it is on you, not the rest of us men.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> I agree with this but it's the next phase that I struggle with. I always firmly tell him it's unacceptable behavior and he needs to change for me to stay in this relationship... Nothing changes. I don't know how to set boundaries. I mean when he crosses them, then what do I do? Nothing I say makes a difference with him, and he turns it around somehow and makes it about him and switches subjects somehow.


What he is doing is extremely manipulative and controlling, and as long as you keep trying to play by his rules, he will keep making your head spin around and yanking the rug out from under you.

He doesn't respect your boundaries because you keep letting him cross them.

Do you really mean it when you say he must change for you to stay in the relationship? Because this is the boundary he is testing you on.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> So I tell him why I'm upset/mad and I explain it. He gets defensive, denies it, says he disagrees, starts deflecting blame pointing the finger at me trying to switch the subject. I then explain why I'm upset and how it makes me feel. He again disagrees and denies everything. Then he try's to make it about him... I'm the worst husband ever, I work so hard and this is my one day off i don't want to fight, I can never make you happy, he does this all the time so he doesn't have to admit to what he does. I respond to this why explaining more, usually I get emotional and cry bc I just so frustrated how he can't see it, and he always makes it about himself, and how he doesn't want to always fight and he's so tired and blah blah.


What you describe here is emotional abuse. Please, please find ways to protect yourself from letting this tear you down. When you see him leading you into this same cycle, don't follow him there. If he must be a child, throw a tantrum, whatever it is he does to keep you upset and guessing, see it for what it is and don't follow him there. 

You cannot make him see anything he doesn't want to see, or take responsibility for something he wants to blame on you. The more you try, the more you will feel like you are beating your head against a brick wall. But you don't need to take responsibility for his games.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

metallicaluvr said:


> the answer to this is simple: male ego.
> source: I'm male.


Oh really? Explain this:



larry.gray said:


> I'm very quick to apologize, my wife is the complete opposite.
> 
> How about we not stereotype an entire gender for the behavior of some?


I'm thinking jorgene nailed it. To me that's a far better explanation.



jorgegene said:


> i think the inability or reluctance to apologize comes from a place of insecurity.
> 
> either insecurity in the relationship, or insecurity in a broader personal sense.
> btw, the spouse may promote that insecurity by being overly critical putting the other spouse always on the defensive.
> ...


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## B-you (Mar 27, 2016)

I think passive aggressive men are really angry or hugely resent something or someone from their past I.e. Parent, old girl/boy friend, but whatever happened, they take it out on you. It's like because they don't get or didn't get to divulge their anger onto the intended party, they use you as their scapegoat. They have to find a way to purge their own deep seated hostility, so they transfer it to you by making you so frustrated or crazy. Then, they give you that look like "why are you so upset; you need to calm Down ; what Happened?They smile inside, knowing that their perceived cool and calm demeanor is still intact, while they have made you look like an uber emotional, unglued crazy person. This is how they really are, but they got to mask it once again because the transferred all the crazy energy to you. So exhausting.


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## Redactus (Nov 22, 2015)

Traditionally, men are trained from youth that they will be the head of the family. They are trained and realize that they are responsible for making the decisions for the family. Whether they are "right or wrong" is not material. They make the decisions and live with the consequences. I think that this mindset is still prevalent today and so, they make their decisions and there is no reason to apologize for doing what they perceived was the best course to take at the time.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


Way to stereotype.

I've known plenty of women who also cannot apologize or make excuses to their behavior.

It's not a man versus woman thing, it's a human thing. It's in our nature to hide our faults. 

Set boundaries and learn how to honestly communicate with your spouse. 

For me personally, I am more likely to be honest if I know judgement of my character is not likely. If I screw up and confess that I want to know that I will be forgiven and it won't be held against me. If that's not likely then I don't feel safe enough to admit to wrong doing. 

Maybe try to tell him that you love him regardless and any faults can be worked out. That would speak volumes to my love languages if my wife told me that.


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## MikeTO (Aug 18, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I don't understand why men can't give an effective apology. Are they stubborn? Are they dumb? Do they not get it? Honestly his inability to apologize is pushing me over the edge and making me crazy, it's ruining our marriage. My mom says... That's how all men are. What is the deal guys please help me understand!


Same with women. Not a gender issue.


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