# The One who works is the fool



## Rrr (Dec 15, 2019)

but we are in Europe
unless both of us work at least 75% of total capacity at minimum wage, we hover at the poverty line.
Currently, we are at 65%

The savings rate is 30 € a month on average
The wife keeps talking about the money she would receive from home.
It hasn't happened in 2 years. They are paying for her flights there though.

I have 2 investment milestones at 800 € each. It hurts to see that what I wanted to gift myself for Christmas has only been achieved less than halfway.
I have total tolerance for humans living this way. This is how I feel, however.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

This is has been creeping upon us for the past 2 or 3 decades. That is, expertise, skills, experience are not rewarded in the workplace as they used to be. It's ownership that brings in the lion's share of gains.

Driving your own car to pick up strangers gets dressed up as entrepreneurship. but it's not that lucrative.

The other trend in the economy that I don't agree with is that private enterprise can do everything cheaper, faster, better. this is simply not true.


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## Rrr (Dec 15, 2019)

NextTimeAround said:


> This is has been creeping upon us for the past 2 or 3 decades. That is, expertise, skills, experience are not rewarded in the workplace as they used to be. It's ownership that brings in the lion's share of gains.


Western civilizations impoverishment due to permanent overseas-war.
Milestones reached in 2007, soon the next one is coming.

I actually work in a crisis-free sector, geriatric nursing. While the rest of the country dabbles with a recession, here all is a steady-state.



notmyjamie said:


> Driving your own car to pick up strangers gets dressed up as entrepreneurship. but it's not that lucrative.


Here we have Amway agents. Their stuff isn't that cheap. But they do it. For small commission.
Yet Amway saves on not paying them any wages. 



notmyjamie said:


> The other trend in the economy that I don't agree with is that private enterprise can do everything cheaper, faster, better. this is simply not true.


In the next 25 years, the world will change more than in the last 150.
So it's like going from the German Empire to modern-age Germany in that many years.

I don't know what we can do to be safe in this economy. Most likely by the time I retire, my pension won't be enough to buy fire-wood even.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I dislike when politicians quote employment statistics. From where I sit, as an accountant, reviewing the financial situation of approximately 400 families, I see something completely different. I see highly educated people struggling to find full time jobs. I see them in the "gig" economy holding down 2 sometimes 3 "contract" positions. Those so-called positions are not even classified as jobs as they are kept by independent contractors and are deemed "entrepreneurial". The employers get off cheap. No benefits, no tax dept interference, no workplace safety concerns. It turns a workplace into a "right-to-work" environment where you can be discharged at the boss' whim. Best of all, these jobs are not in the official statistics promoted by the politicos of the day. Things look encouraging on paper, but truth be told, they are not. I see some very disturbing trends. I see a definite economic dip coming. You will hear a lot about those who had a few "contracts" that were terminated, and have no recourse whatsoever.


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## Rrr (Dec 15, 2019)

When I was in school, they taught school children that a 5% unemployment rate is full employment.
As this was the rate of fluctuation within the workforce.

Nowadays the MSM make a fuss about it being lowered from 4,2 to 3,8%

So we are over-employed.

But that's just a story. Just like the one where they taught us that countries with nuclear power plants could never fail.
See Ukraine.


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## Rrr (Dec 15, 2019)

And when I thought of asking a trade union to help get things better at our company, the first thing they want me is to chip over part of my salary to them.

All I asked for was a handful of flyers...


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## seb345 (Feb 14, 2020)

Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. It's irksome at the least and very very annoying (boarder-line on breaking up maddening). I get it that a lot of you are going to be like oh but she can find someone who is earning more. I am at least working. She doesn't have stable employment. I mean the other day I got some mail regarding my 401k and she was like what is a 401k. (in case you don't know it's basically a retirement bank account that you can't access until you retire. If you do you pay a fee). So you can understand why I am kind of angry. She is 100% dependent on me when it comes to money but she also is always giving me attitude. I don't want t be the type of person who is emotionally abusing his partner when it comes to money so I need advise.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. It's irksome at the least and very very annoying (boarder-line on breaking up maddening)


This is what we refer to as a "red flag". Run.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. It's irksome at the least and very very annoying (boarder-line on breaking up maddening)


Welcome to one of many women's point of view.

To be sprinkled with "I'm unhappy because you spend too much time working" when the man ( or primary earner) spends the necessary time to make the extra coin.

Not all, but this is common. 

Ahhh, the complexities of life..


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

She is free to want someone who makes more money. You are free to want someone who doesn't nag. 



seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. It's irksome at the least and very very annoying (boarder-line on breaking up maddening)


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

seb345 said:


> She is 100% dependent on me when it comes to money but she also is always giving me attitude.


Whatever you do, don't marry her. You will have a lifetime of being *****ed at, and no matter how much you earn, it should have been more, and it should have consumed less of your time to do it. Meanwhile, she will contribute little or nothing, and she will consume 75% of everything.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. It's irksome at the least and very very annoying (boarder-line on breaking up maddening). I get it that a lot of you are going to be like oh but she can find someone who is earning more. I am at least working. She doesn't have stable employment. I mean the other day I got some mail regarding my 401k and she was like what is a 401k. (in case you don't know it's basically a retirement bank account that you can't access until you retire. If you do you pay a fee). So you can understand why I am kind of angry. She is 100% dependent on me when it comes to money but she also is always giving me attitude. I don't want t be the type of person who is emotionally abusing his partner when it comes to money so I need advise.


Why would you stay with a woman who has this attitude? I don't get it. If she wants more money, she can figure out how to earn it.

Why do you think that you are emotionally abusing her about money?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Why do you think that you are emotionally abusing her about money?


Is "emotional abuse" her terminology ? If so, you can completely blow that off. It's another meaningless buzz-phrase.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TJW said:


> Is "emotional abuse" her terminology ? If so, you can completely blow that off. It's another meaningless buzz-phrase.


There is true emotional abuse. What he has described in this thread does not sound anywhere near real emotional abuse.


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. -SNIP- She is 100% dependent on me when it comes to money but she also is always giving me attitude. I don't want t be the type of person who is emotionally abusing his partner when it comes to money so I need advise.


I am a woman, and I fully don't understand why you are putting up with HER emotional abuse! Unless she has a crippling disability, she can get out and contribute to the household. Please, please don't marry her; she is an albatross.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. It's irksome at the least and very very annoying (boarder-line on breaking up maddening). I get it that a lot of you are going to be like oh but she can find someone who is earning more. I am at least working. She doesn't have stable employment. I mean the other day I got some mail regarding my 401k and she was like what is a 401k. (in case you don't know it's basically a retirement bank account that you can't access until you retire. If you do you pay a fee). So you can understand why I am kind of angry. She is 100% dependent on me when it comes to money but she also is always giving me attitude. I don't want t be the type of person who is emotionally abusing his partner when it comes to money so I need advise.


Sir, I am and have been an accountant for over 42 years. I am also the father of two children that are financially independent of my wife and myself. Ferociously independent. My son recently terminated a relationship as she displayed immaturity with respect to finances, and time management. To be brutally honest, you are doing her no favours. She has to learn to stand on her own two feet. I can forgive financial ignorance, but there are no prizes for dependence on others for sustenance. Her attitude with respect to this is a deal-breaker for me. I would tell her that you are neither her husband nor her parent and consequently you have no obligation, or further want to support her.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Well, one of my millennials has just struck a blow against this "gig" economy. He was working as an independent "Logistics consultant" (he was working as the company shipper, as an independent contractor). As the company was teeming with these kinds of employees, staff training and safety concerns fell by the wayside. He was injured on the job. There was no provision for disability insurance. So, he contacted one of the litigators that we recommended. Litigator determined that the employer's situation was so egregious, that he applied to the court for an advance of settlement. Good news, the lawsuit exceeds the employer's insurance limits, if they even cover this under their "all risks" coverage. If and when my client wins, a lot of less than ethical employers, and this goes all the way to our government will have to reassess their employment policies.


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## maree (Jun 13, 2011)

seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. It's irksome at the least and very very annoying (boarder-line on breaking up maddening). I get it that a lot of you are going to be like oh but she can find someone who is earning more. I am at least working. She doesn't have stable employment. I mean the other day I got some mail regarding my 401k and she was like what is a 401k. (in case you don't know it's basically a retirement bank account that you can't access until you retire. If you do you pay a fee). So you can understand why I am kind of angry. She is 100% dependent on me when it comes to money but she also is always giving me attitude. I don't want t be the type of person who is emotionally abusing his partner when it comes to money so I need advise.


Tell her that it’s 2020, not 1950. As a woman she can go out and make money. I’m a woman and I’m the breadwinner, a lot of women are. So why isn’t she making more money?


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## shortbus (Jul 25, 2017)

I'd quit and go fishing, tell her, she's in charge from now on. I can smell those pan fried fillets now. Let's crack a cold one.


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## Ella-Bee (Apr 18, 2020)

seb345 said:


> Oh yes my girlfriend is all over my case just because she thinks I am not earning enough for her liking. [...] She doesn't have stable employment. I mean the other day I got some mail regarding my 401k and she was like what is a 401k. [...] She is 100% dependent on me when it comes to money but she also is always giving me attitude.


Your girlfriend is one of those gold-digging skanks people joke about. And believe it or not, you get to see the 'nice' verison of her. When you're out of the room, trust me she is joking to all of her female friends about what an idiot you are for funding her lifestyle. I wish men could hear some of the sh*t that goes on when they are out of the room. Please, for the love of god, do not marry this woman. She will financially ruin you, cheat and/or divorce and take what's left of your money. I've seen it time and time and time again. In fact, I don't even think she warrants the description of 'woman'. She sounds more like a self-entitled four year old brat! Kick her to the curb and move on. I'm guessing she's pretty, which is why you've put up with this crap. But you can pay to look like a model these days. You can't pay for morals and personality.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

I can't remember who said it but someone said that the biggest determiner of your financial success or failure in life is who you marry. The point was not about marrying for money but rather about avoiding marrying someone who is bad with money and most importantly, avoiding "mistake" marriages that end in divorces which are very costly to financial well-being. These things are linked, of course, because many divorces are caused by money issues.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

@Ella-Bee is spot on, my friend. I have seen it first-hand. Thank God, I didn't marry her, I would have been financially ruined. You will be, too..... and there will be no end to the complaining, whining, nagging, comparing you to other guys who earn more.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> someone said that the biggest determiner of your financial success or failure in life is who you marry


Whoever said that is absolutely correct.


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## Ella-Bee (Apr 18, 2020)

"I can't remember who said it but someone said that the biggest determiner of your financial success or failure in life is who you marry."

This is so true! Spending day in day out working yourself into the floor only to have someone else spend it all is absolutely demoralising over time. In fact, I would argue the damage is worse than cheating. At least with cheating, you can kick them out and move on to someone else with the rest of your life relatively in tact. If you marry a gold-digger, even if you kick them out, you then have to spend months or years catching up financially. Assuming you even can.

Financial misalignment / infidelity is one of the leading causes of divorce. Even if you stay together, you can expect a very rough marriage. Either one of you ends up managing all the money and feels like a parent instead of an equal, or you spend a lifetime arguing and sneaking behind each other's backs. It just isn't worth it. My parents are the end result of a long marriage like this and both are nearing 70 as very bitter, angry individuals. Especially my dad, who feels as if he's wasted most of his life at work only to reach retirement with comparatively little to show for it.

There are only four reasons I can think of that an adult woman should not be working full time:

1. She has young children to look after and childcare would cost more
2. She is disabled to the point that she is unable to get a job
3. She is already so wealthy that she no longer needs to work.
4. She spends all day at home trading and earns far more than she ever could from a salary!

If none of those apply and she isn't paying her fair share, then she's a parasitic gold-digger and you should get away as soon as you can.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Ella-Bee said:


> "I can't remember who said it but someone said that the biggest determiner of your financial success or failure in life is who you marry."
> 
> This is so true! Spending day in day out working yourself into the floor only to have someone else spend it all is absolutely demoralising over time. In fact, I would argue the damage is worse than cheating. At least with cheating, you can kick them out and move on to someone else with the rest of your life in tact. If you marry a gold-digger, even if you kick them out, you then have to spend months or years trying to catch up financially. Assuming you can.
> 
> Financial misalignment/infidelity is one of the leading causes of divorce. Even if you manage to stay together, you can expect a very rough marriage. Either one of you ends up managing all the money and feels like a parent instead of an equal, or you spend a lifetime arguing and sneaking behind each other's backs. It just isn't worth it. My parents are the end result of a long marriage like this and both are nearing 70 as very bitter, angry individuals. Especially my dad, who feels as if he's wasted most of his life at work only to reach retirement with very little to show for it.


When you marry the right person, they also act as your partner and you help to make each other more successful in life, in your career, in your faith, and in your marriage.

When you make a bad decision in choosing a marriage partner, you will not be inspired to create a great career, your life's plans and dreams may be distracted by problems of addictions, legal problems, infidelity, arguing, destructive behaviors, undermining each other, wasteful spending, financial irresponsibility, and ultimately financially destructive divorce - further distracting fighting and family/children issues.

Like all decisions in life, sometimes it's very hard to see it ahead of time. Hindsight and all of that. Sometimes it's bad luck that you can't see in advance like with health problems that can create big challenges in marriage.

We work with a lot of people through the work of our church. Emotional factors like love, passion, sex, attraction, etc are important in a marriage but you need to also look carefully at the practical side of it. Who will make the best lifetime PARTNER to pursue your dreams? Do you have the same goals? Do they have the same focus on those goals that you have? Do you have a shared strategy for achieving your shared goals?

Being "madly in love" is not enough to make a lifetime marriage in my opinion.


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

When I was 14 I had a crush on the gal down the street. My father worked with her dad at a local welding shop. When he found out about me chasing her he told me when I’m over at her house pay attention to how Rach’s mother treats her dad; that is how Rach well treat you. What a bullet I dodge. At my 5 year school reunion, Rach came running over to me wanting to introduce Jon her 5th husband. Now FB friends with her and she is on #9.
So many red flags to look out for. My advice is: While I don’t know what I want, I sure as hell know what I don’t want when I’m in the middle of it. Feels off then walkway early.


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