# How to know if son would be better off if I divorced?



## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

My son is 15 years old. He's very smart...an honors student. He's polite, thoughtful, funny, and athletic. Honestly I couldn't ask for a better son. 

Here's the deal: in all of my agony of deciding whether divorce is right for ME, I realize I had been focusing so much on my own feelings that I put my son's situation on the back burner. His situation is this: at home, he stays in his room ALL THE TIME. He listens to his iPod, plays his computer, reads, whatever. He doesn't like to watch TV. The only time he comes out is to eat...OR, when my H isn't home. My H has always been hard on him, expecting a lot out of him behaviorally. I remember saying to my H when our son was 3, "He's THREE, not THIRTY!" He criticized him for everything, like chewing with his mouth open (I hate that too, but to get mad at a 3 year old for how he eats?), always expected him to be quiet, never run in the house, etc. 

Yes all of these things are proper to teach kids about, but when your ONLY interaction with your kid is to scold them, demean them, criticize them, etc, it has to wear a kid down. As my son grew, the expectations shifted. I told my H proudly that our son got all As and one B on his report card...my H's response was "What did he get a B for?" He has criticized his clothes throughout various stages of experimentation that kids go through, especially in middle school. For a while, my son would wear nothing but dark skinny jeans and rock band t-shirts. This school year, he's been more into sports, so he wears a lot of Under Armour and other sports type clothing. My H criticizes his clothes constantly. He thinks our son should wear khakis and polo shirts to school. Why? I don't know...he just thinks that we let our son identify himself too much by his choice of clothing. I say if he's a good student and not mouthy and not into drugs, etc, I don't give a flying crap if he wants to wear Under Armour t-shirts and warmup pants every day of the week! 

I've tried to talk to my son about these things and I always try to build him up and let him know how great of a kid he is. My H has been trying to reach out to him more and be more caring and fun with him, but my son just thinks it's awkward. If I tell my son I have to work but he and H will be home together, his shoulders slump like he's really disappointed. But if I try to talk to my son about why he stays in his room all the time or why he doesn't like to be home all day with his dad, he just says everything's fine, he's ok with it, he's not mad, etc. 

I'm really tempted to tell my son I've been thinking about divorce because I want to see what he really thinks about the idea of living away from my H. I know he hates living in this trailer and he NEVER has friends over because of it. I know it's not right to talk to your kid about divorce before you drop the bomb on your spouse, but what I'm wondering is whether my hesitating on telling my H I want a divorce is actually hurting my son more. I know there's no crystal ball either. Any thoughts on this?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Sounds like your son would BENEFIT by being out from under the thumb of a hypercritical, unsympathetic, rigid father.

Moving out would allow him to 

consider having friends over
interact with you more (rather than hiding in his room)
be free to be himself IN HIS OWN HOME
Consider getting your son into short-term therapy to DEAL with his feelings about his life, his home life, his father, etc.

Check out your state's laws to see if visitation with his father is MANDATED or is based on the wishes of a 15yo. YOU should be encouraging him to have a relationship with his father (even if/when you move out). Do not allow him to believe it is OPTIONAL if you know that, BY LAW, it is NOT. Let him know WHAT to expect. REMIND him that his father LOVES HIM even if he's not gone about showing it in the way that YOU would.

Good luck!


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I would definitely encourage/support him visiting his dad regularly. My H is not a bad father...he's responsible and always makes sure of our son's physical needs. He's never been physically abusive (if he was, he'd have been history a long time ago). He's just more of a disciplinarian, not fun, not carefree, gets agitated at the least interruption in "normal" planned things (not spontaneous). He just never spends time with him alone. It's always all 3 of us. Or just my son and I. 

Those things you bullet pointed are exactly the things I thought of as far as how things would be different if it was just him and I. My son obviously doesn't know any different so I don't think he even realizes how oppressed he is in our home. I just wish there was a way to "feel him out" about how he would handle the whole thing without basically telling him before I tell my H.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Have you given thought to the possibility that your husband's rigidness mixed with your more liberal views might be a balanced mix that provides a bit of a foundation for him? Boys will open up to mom's more on some issues. On a primal level you act to ensure your son's survival, your husband's instincts are to inspire him to be a man. 

Is your husband a cruel man or just one set in his ways? If the latter, don't involve your son with divorce decisions, it will only taint and scar his relationship with his father.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

My H is not "cruel" so to speak. He's just very critical and sometimes demeaning. He micromanages both of us, which is hard for both of us to take. My son just feels like he can't do anything right to his dad sometimes. 

Yes, my H is more rigid about things and he has pushed our son to take more responsibility as he's gotten older, such as household chores and so on. And this is good and I appreciate his desire to teach him things. But...the way he goes about it is to micromanage, point out every little mistake, challenge him in a defensive way to explain why he does something a different way than he was shown (even though it's not wrong, just a different way). 

I agree with and support his efforts, but when he starts getting unkind about it, I step in to defend my son, which infuriates my H. He says I always "take our son's side" when he's trying to discipline him. I say I only do that when I feel like his discipline crosses the line into demoralizing our son. I take the approach that there are certain things that kids must learn on their own...sometimes you have to let them "mess up"'and experience the consequences. As they get older, you can do this more. Of course, I don't throw him to the dogs to fend for himself. But...for example, he chose to do his science fair experiment a little differently than how he originally told my H he would do it. My H launches into 50 questions about it, asking if he thought of this or that, how that's not going to work, how does he know for sure it will turn out, does he really need those supplies, those supplies won't work for that...on and on and on. My son was getting so exasperated, I finally jumped in and said "this isn't YOUR science experiment. It's HIS. He's in Honors Biology...if he says he's going to change his experiment, we need to trust that he knows what he's doing. If it fails, he'll still learn from it." My H got mad and slept on the couch that night. That's the kind of atmosphere that exists in our home on a regular basis.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Do NOT discuss your divorce plans with your son until you've actually filed and your husband is fully been put on notice. Basically until you're about ready to pack your bags and leave you keep this news to yourself. That's too much to put on a kid regardless how well intentioned you may be. 

But to answer your other question I think your son would benefit from living away from your husband. Just getting him out of that trailer would be HUGE.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

I prayed from about 10 through 18 that my Mom would decide to divorce my Dad. He was scary, passive aggressive, had no idea how to deal with his children and never talked to us unless it was to yell about someone leaving an empty coke can on the counter.

Maybe if she would have left him I would not have chosen to date men (who I now realize) are like my father. 

Does your son feel like like he has to walk on eggshells? I used to hide in my room too to avoid my father. I can't imagine it would damage him to get out of that situation. What does your counselor say?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your son is an honor student, polite, intelligent, thoughtful, funny, athletic. That didn't happen by magic. Maybe dad had a little something to do with that. He expects a lot out of your son and apparently your son is capable of delivering. If you've lived with your husband all this time and your son is as great as you describe, he's not suffering from crappy parenting. 
Would your son prefer a buddy for a dad? Sure. He'd probably like to smoke dope, drink beer, and watch porn with his dad while skipping school. He probably wishes he could live without any 
parents in the home. 
The time to teach kids table manners is when they are around 3. Running in the house is dangerous for a kid. Anyway, the examples you provided of your husband being "hard" on the kid are 12 years old. Seems like if this guy was such a bad father than this child would be better off without him, there should be some heavy last-week, last-month examples of tyrant behavior. 
He actually parented and expected his son to behave and have manners. 12 years later, you have a polite honor student. Who can't be a total recluse because he said he's also athletic. Why don't you hold off on dropping a parent for another few years. Let this kid get into college, graduate making 6 figures and if he feels he had lousy parenting, he'll be more than capable of paying a therapist or he can tell his father himself. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Your kid isn't making bombs or playing with sniper rifles or going to juvenile hall. He's academically head and shoulders above his peers. I'd hate to trot that kid into a court room and try to convince a jury that he had a lousy parent. If you really believed this child was psychologically abused at age 3, you're a little slow getting him out of the situation. 
Maybe you aren't happy for your own reasons but "doing it for the child" would make a difficult, painful, decision much easier to make.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Reread what I said. I never said he's a "lousy" or "crappy" father. You're putting words in my mouth. Yes, my son IS a great kid, and I'm gonna take a chunk of the credit for that myself. I was the one to read to him every night while my H sulked that I couldn't just put him in bed and turn the lights off and walk away. I was the one who played with him outside and taught him to throw a ball, a frisbee, to play kickball, badminton. My H NEVER once did these things with him. He chose to sit inside and watch TV instead. I encouraged and defended him in his choice to join track, despite my H's dramatic bemoaning of how much he HATES sports, how terribly inconvenient this would be to have to pick him up after practice and after a meet (he has no intention of actually sitting through the meets...I do). I encouraged him to pursue the honors diploma track that he came home all excited about, despite my H saying that's just a big waste of time because colleges won't even look at they or care about that. So you want a more recent example? Ok, my son came out and helped us shovel the snow the other day. We were pretty much done and my son decided to finish off an area to the side of the garage. My H looks over at him and says "DON'T break the shovel like that!! You're digging into the gravel and you're going to break it!" Now, my son had just spent an hour shoveling and has shoveled in the past and has never broken a shovel. So my son thinks he corrected what my H yelled at him about and continued shoveling. My H watched him and then stomped over to him yelling "God damn it I just said not to do that..." I couldn't hear the rest but my son tried to explain what he was doing; my H continued to lecture him angrily and finally stomped away shaking his head. My son stood there not knowing how to shovel without making him mad, then just put it away and went into his room. Yes it sounds petty, but it's that kind of belittling sh*t that makes my blood boil.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Waking, you know the full story and you don't have to justify anything. Some of the posters here are simply contrary for the hell of it, passive aggressive bullying IMHO.

Just keep talking it through, this is a big process that no one knows the outcome of until it happens. Sending you strength.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

My son and I were home alone today and he helped me do some housework. He brought up some issues about my H that I could tell bothered him but he didn't want to complain. We had a long talk, and I'm again amazed at my son's ability to perceive underlying issues. He said that he thinks his dad has narrow interests and prefers to isolate himself, and that's why he never wants to socialize and do anything involving being around a lot of people. He says his dad seems to be stuck in the mindset of how things were for him as a child, so he can't/won't relate to my son having different priorities, interests, etc. 

He desperately wants to move out of this trailer, as I have for many years. We started talking about the prospects of moving (I never gave any indication I am planning to divorce)...my son's face lit up at the possibilities of being around other kids (we live in a trailer in the country and there's nothing to do out here), being closer to stores, restaurants, a neighborhood he can run in, and so on. 

He even said he doesn't want to go on a vacation this summer b/c he wants us to use the money to move. This is so important to him, to live in a real home in a real neighborhood and be able to have friends over. He mentioned that he notices my H complaining daily about aches and pains, being exhausted, and not wanting to be active like his friends' dads are. He said his grandpa (my dad) seems to be in better shape than my H. He's used to my H being this way, but the older he gets, the more he realizes how much his dad doesn't do things with him like other dads do with their kids. 

It was a very nice heart to heart conversation, and it was nice to get my son to open up about his feelings and needs. I told him that my goal is for 2013 to be the LAST year we will live in this trailer. Today's conversation gave me a little better idea of where my son is emotionally. I dare say he has already surpassed the level of emotional intelligence that my H has.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Waking, I agree with Mavash that you should not do or say anything giving your son the idea that he is involved in the D decision in any way. Instead, the D announcement should be presented as a decision you made entirely on your own. The danger is that, as young as he is, he is still sufficiently egocentric to feel he is the cause of all bad things happening around him. 

It therefore is important to impress upon him, when announcing the D, that it was due to an incompatibility between you and his father -- and your son had nothing to do with it. Certainly, this means you don't want to imply that you are D your H in order to better meet the son's needs for living in town. Such an implication likely would burden him unnecessarily with much guilt over being "the cause" for his parents' divorce. Hence, IMO, you should avoid asking any questions like "would you be happier living away from Dad?"


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Unbelievable I was an honor student, well behaved, did all the right things. In dysfunctional families I took on the role of forget the name but its something like golden child. I know you know this. I tried to do everything right to fix my families problems. Sometimes the perfect child is just as messed up as the black sheep I know I was. I just hid it well under the guise of perfectionism and over achievement. I didn't crash and burn until I hit about 28.

I was also one that prayed for divorce but in hindsight I realize now it wouldn't have mattered as both my parents had problems. For years I thought it was just my dad and nope it was my mom too.


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Your son may be an introvert and his behavior has nothing to do with your husband. He simply prefers to spend his time on quiet pursuits. What is more damaging to an introvert is to constantly suggest there is something wrong with him because he is a loner. 

I would suggest you each take the MBTI and discuss your types with each other and learn about each other before you go labeling him broken.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Uptown said:


> Waking, I agree with Mavash that you should not do or say anything giving your son the idea that he is involved in the D decision in any way. Instead, the D announcement should be presented as a decision you made entirely on your own. The danger is that, as young as he is, he is still sufficiently egocentric to feel he is the cause of all bad things happening around him.
> 
> It therefore is important to impress upon him, when announcing the D, that it was due to an incompatibility between you and his father -- and your son had nothing to do with it. Certainly, this means you don't want to imply that you are D your H in order to better meet the son's needs for living in town. Such an implication likely would burden him necessarily with much guilt over being "the cause" for his parents' divorce. Hence, IMO, you should avoid asking any questions like "would you be happier living away from Dad?"


I understand what you're saying, and that makes sense. Even though it ultimately would be better for my son, IMO, and I do need to factor his needs into my decision to divorce, it needs to be my decision and I need to take full responsibility for it. 

Just for clarification, the conversation we had today was started by him completely out of the blue...he asked me if we were ever going to move like we've discussed off and on over the past couple of years. When he said "we", he was talking about all three of us. And I continued the conversation along those lines, never indicating that I am planning to divorce. He did ask, though, why I couldn't insist on us moving just as stubbornly as my H has insisted on us NOT moving. I said he had a good point, and maybe I need to start the process of looking at houses to get H's attention that we're serious about this. In this conversation, I was careful not to lead him on, but allowed him to express some thoughts he has about where we live and our lifestyle in general that he doesn't feel comfortable expressing to his dad for fear of ridicule or being belittled.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

What was your husband like? What made your son feel like he couldn't be himself around his dad?


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> My X and I were together all of our adult lives. Same for us...I was 15 when we met, 19 when we married.
> 
> He had a very dysfunctional childhood, he seemed to overcome all of that and we had a good life together. A series of events about the time he turned 40 started to change him. Over the course of a year or so, *he was less engaged in our family and seemed annoyed at much of his life. MLC? who knows. He also began to be depressed. I got him to counseling etc. It just seemed that no matter how hard I tried I could not reach him in the dark place he seemed to want to stay.* Same here, but he started this at a much earlier age. I practically dragged him to the doctor when he began indicating he was having suicidal thoughts. And I pushed and supported and encouraged him to treat his depression/bipolar 2 from then on.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your story. It's eerily similar to mine.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Your husband sounds a lot like my father when I was growing up. His way of providing structure was to yell, curse and criticize. He was very rigid and expected perfection out of me. Anything less and I would have to deal with his wrath. He was also an alcoholic on top of all that. 

I was an honor student, graduated in the top 5% of my college class and went on to become an attorney. I was successful by any objective standard. That doesn't mean that living full time with my father helped me or made me a better person. I actually spent a large portion of my childhood in fear of him and, like your son, used to stay in my room most of the time. Once I got a little older I lost some of the fear mainly because I knew if things ever got out of hand I could take care of myself. My mother would also step in and intervene in an effort to "protect" me from the barrage of verbal abuse. 

Today I don't really have much of a relationship with my father. If my mother had chosen to leave him back then I would have probably been relieved.


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