# Looks like we're parting ways.



## ResignedWife

Husband and I have struggled through a 20-year marriage, and a couple weeks ago decided to bring it to an end. We have two kids, a couple pets, a home, and some modest debt (mostly mine). 

Fortunately, we are still friends - we hardly ever fight - and both (sadly) agree it is time to move on. The plan is to go to a mediator to create the legal separation documents. The night we decided to part, we went to dinner for 2+ hours and went through some of the basic logistics.

1) We'll sell the house and split the proceeds equally (I'll use part of my proceeds to pay off my debt and the rest on a downpayment on a new, smaller home).
2) He only wants a few furnishings from the house and the possessions he came into the marriage with (stuff like records, books, some of his parents' furniture).
3) He said I was the "better parent" and that he wanted me to have majority custody (most likely 255/110 day split) and that he'd gladly pay whatever our state deems appropriate for child support.
4) He takes the cat, I take the dog.

The only big decision is WHEN. That's the part we're in limbo about. Because we get along, and there is absolutely NO animosity at all, there's no rush (truly, since we decided to separate we've been more affectionate and friendly with each other - because the stress of "what if" is finally gone). 

I'm thinking the mediator can help us set up a long-term timeline for officially separating. Has anyone done this? 

Something like:

*February - April 2017:* go through all house belongings together and get rid of unwanted things, pack up wanted things and store off site in separate storage units for each of us. 
*May - June 2017:* make all house repairs we think would come up as an issue during sale process
*July 2017:* put the house on the market, assuming we'd be under contract within the end of the month. I'm not worried about selling the house - we're in a good part of town, in a sought-after neighborhood, in a great school district. This past year homes in our 'hood have been selling in under a week for an average of 98% of asking price. Even during the worst of the economic downturn, homes were still selling quickly because we are in a great area that is booming with growth.
*September 2017:* close on home sale and officially begin separation period.

The other question I'll have the mediator help with is WHEN do we tell the kids in this schedule? When school ends and before we put it on the market? That feels like the best time to me. I doubt they'd ask questions while we are decluttering or fixing up the house - they'll just think we're in "project mode" which happens from time to time.

Did anyone do a long-term timeline? And if so, when did you tell the kids?


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## TheTruthHurts

Personally I'd focus mostly on the kids. Do they have any idea? Were you two ever affectionate?

It's most important to give the kids a good role model for their future relationships. So I would think you should talk to a child psychologist or school psychologist and get their take on how to handle it.

IMO sooner rather than later. How old are they?

Can you both talk about it with them while you go through your scheduled plan? It may take a long time to process and they may have questions as they do process things.

Get your stories straight ahead of time. Can you both talk about what was missing and why it didn't work out? This is all they've known - if they should seek more in their relationships, you'll have to spell that out. 


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## Openminded

I did a long-term plan and told my ex-husband in advance in order to have everything settled before the divorce (it still wasn't totally settled but I did try). 

When children are younger, one of their biggest concerns about divorce is usually where they're going to live and will they have to change schools and lose friends. Give them as much age-appropriate information as you feel they need (or want). 

Like everything else in life, it takes time.


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## Betrayedone

This is just so sad.........


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## ResignedWife

Our kid are in middle school. Yes, my husband and I are occasionally affectionate in front of them - kisses after work, random hugs, "date nights" every now and again. In fact, as my husband and I left to go to the 2+ hour dinner to discuss what we were going to do, our kids said, "Are you going out for a date night?" *sigh*

They will not be leaving the school district and, in fact, based on where I can afford to live, they may be able to stay with their friends. As it stands right now, because of re-zoning due to a new school opening, next school year they'd both be going to brand new schools ANYway. So if we are able to sell the house and get settled by September, it's quite possible they'll be able to go to the schools they were originally zoned for, and therefore stay with their middle school friends. Or they'd go to the new schools, which was in the cards ALREADY even if my husband and I were not separating. 

Sadly, I think one child in particular will be happy to hear we are divorcing - he and his dad do NOT get along at all, I think both will be relieved not to be around each other as much (they are basically the exact same personality and therefore butt heads ALL the time). The other child may not take it as well, and is the one I'm worried about telling.

My husband and I will be meeting with the mediator in a couple weeks - I've told her the most important subject of that first meeting is the kids. Not only a parenting plan, but how/when to tell the kids.


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## browser

ResignedWife said:


> He said I was the "better parent" and that he wanted me to have majority custody (most likely 255/110 day split)


Good but not complete. You need to consider leap years. 



ResignedWife said:


> *July 2017:* put the house on the market, assuming we'd be under contract within the end of the month. I'm not worried about selling the house


As Spring breaks open in mid to late March the real estate market starts to pick up. Regardless of how strong the market is, you don't want to be missing the best few months where you're more likely to get a better price and deal with buyers who won't be so picky about fixing things because they don't have the negotiating power, because they may very well be competing with other buyers.

Also lots of people look for homes much earlier than the summer because they want to be settled in before school starts in September.


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## ResignedWife

Our housing market has always been very strong, and has been a seller's market since 2000 with a small brief period in 2009 where it was still a seller's market but homes took two weeks to sell instead of a few days. I'm not worried about people nitpicking the house to try and get a better deal. As such, my husband and I have made a list of things we are going to fix around the house in order to have it be as good as possible. If we can get it on the market sooner than July, we will - but we're in no rush since we know it'll sell the moment it hits the market, and we can always arrange for a 30-day closing if the buyers are worried about getting in before the school year starts. The only houses in our town that don't have bidding wars are those that are in need of a LOT of updates. But even those get snapped up quickly. Houses sell all year long here - there is no "cool" period.


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## ResignedWife

Husband and I talked real estate and friends last night - and we joked about the possibility that we may end up being neighbors after we separate. We both want to live in the same small subdivision of townhomes in town, and right now there are two for sale that are only a few doors away from each other. I told him I didn't care if we lived that close to one another, and it might be beneficial for the kids to know that he is so close by and available whenever they want to see him.

One of my kids has a friend whose parents did the same thing when they divorced (on good terms). They live in the same apartment complex, in the same building, and even on the same floor. But he's at one end of the hall and she's on the other. Their child goes back and forth freely between the two, even though the mom has primary custody. This may be a good option for my husband and me as well.

Also, he and I have hosted a huge annual party at the end of every year for almost 20 years and it has really become an annual tradition for many people - we agreed a couple days ago that if we are still amicable by the time the party date approaches, we would co-host the party. We share a lot of the same friends and we do not want them to take sides regarding our separation - co-hosting and continuing the party tradition could be a good way to assure our mutual friends that everything will be okay.

Lots to think about.


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## Herschel

Just remember that there is a possibility of 2 more people becoming involved in your situation, and often, they struggle in circumstances when the exes are fairly close (in various forms). Not that should be #1 concern, your kids are. But just something to take into consideration.


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## ResignedWife

Herschel said:


> Just remember that there is a possibility of 2 more people becoming involved in your situation, and often, they struggle in circumstances when the exes are fairly close (in various forms). Not that should be #1 concern, your kids are. But just something to take into consideration.


I'm not too worried about that on my side. I think I'm the "one and done" type of person, like my grandmother was. I've always been independent - and I think that was one of the main struggles through our marriage. I never RELIED on him for anything, never really PARTNERED with him. And he needed someone that would take care of him - even if his fever was only 99.1 degrees. I'm just not that type of person, and never have been. So I doubt I'd ever enter into a long-term relationship of any kind that would get to the point where I'd bring the other person around my kids. 

As for my husband, I hope he does find someone new once we've parted ways. He's a good guy - he deserves to find happiness with someone else. And if it came to the point where his new partner is worried about him and me living near each other, I'd be okay with moving. Besides, at that point I'd hope that I could afford to get an actual HOUSE again instead of staying in a townhouse. I am not a townhouse kind of person - I like not having my neighbors in such close proximity. But I'll do it for now until I can afford something else down the road.


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## ResignedWife

Hubby and I have made the first appointment with the mediator - she is considered the best one in our area and so we couldn't get on her calendar until early March. We thought we'd be able to see her in early February, but then a calendar conflict arose and now we'll wait until March.  She has confirmed the first meeting will solely be about building a parenting plan and how to tell the kids and our extended families.

Between now and that appointment, we're going to each rent storage units and begin going through the garage/attic together, dividing stuff and getting rid of anything neither of us wants, as well as making a list of all the furniture in the house and who gets what. We won't be able to start doing that until mid-February, but if we dedicate two full Saturdays to it, we should be able to get a lot done. The kids will not suspect anything since we've been talking about going through the garage/attic for a long time.

We've also made the complete list of all the repairs/cleanups needed around the house and will begin those immediately rather than wait - starting with all the stuff that we know we can do ourselves.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

It sounds like you both are rational and are going about this very amicably. I applaud you for that.


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## TheTruthHurts

Personally I think your "one and done" mentality is defeatist, dismissive, or an attempt to roll into a ball and hide from the world.


My MIL and FIL, as good Catholics, never remarried, meaning 40+ years without a significant other just because they believed the "failed" at marriage.

I sincerely encourage you to seek therapy - your dismissive attitude toward ever wanting a partner is probably a defense mechanism or shame over a failed marriage. 

And BTW your current marriage is in no way indicative of life on a new relationship.



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## ResignedWife

TheTruthHurts said:


> Personally I think your "one and done" mentality is defeatist, dismissive, or an attempt to roll into a ball and hide from the world.
> 
> My MIL and FIL, as good Catholics, never remarried, meaning 40+ years without a significant other just because they believed the "failed" at marriage.
> 
> I sincerely encourage you to seek therapy - your dismissive attitude toward ever wanting a partner is probably a defense mechanism or shame over a failed marriage.
> 
> And BTW your current marriage is in no way indicative of life on a new relationship.


I certainly don't intend to sound defeatist OR to hide from the world. I just think my social life will revolve around girls' nights out (I get invited to quite a few), book club, dinner club, my kids, and work. Despite being a wife and mother, I have a decent social life with other woman in my sphere. So I don't see myself hiding away because of a marriage coming to an end.

I have no shame over the marriage ending - we gave it a good 20 years, and we both acknowledge that we have a lot of REALLY fond memories (and inside family jokes galore) that we will continue to share with each other. But when I look at myself 8-10 years down the road, when the kids are out of college and/or on their own, I don't see myself being married again. And I'm not depressed at that idea - I think it's a perfectly reasonable outlook for anyone to have. 

I'm not anti-relationship, I just think I would be content being single going forward. That could change, but right now, that's what I see (and it doesn't bother me).


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## Openminded

I agree. 

I married young and was in a very long marriage. I love being single. The freedom is wonderful. No way I'd give that up.


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## TheTruthHurts

@ResignedWife and @Openminded I have nothing against being independent and happy.

Nor with "freedom".

My point is that you can and should have that in a healthy marriage.

I'm not here due to infidelity or relationship issues. I have different reasons. But I think I represent what some here refer to as the 1% of marriages (perhaps 1% here but WAY higher IRL). And I'm concerned you won't see what those of us in a healthy marriage see.

I've got 30+ years with my W. We're best friends and lovers. We still are very attracted to one another and accommodate each other's sexual and intimacy needs. I like her and she likes me. I see my friends when I want and I encourage her to see hers. I want to spend more time with her than I can and vice versa. Our kids are great.

We don't see eye to eye on everything but we respect each other's opinions. If I think she's coddling the kids too much... but they aren't entitled or spoiled and she wants to do that with her time, I'm ok with it. We defer to each other on things that mean more to one than the other.

My point is that companionship is a great thing and it's entirely possible to find your ideal relationship if you're open to seeing it. If you resign yourself to NOT seeing it, you'll miss it when it happens. That's all 


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## TheTruthHurts

@ResignedWife - rereading the end of your post (in a feminine, happy voice in my head  ) I think I better understand - and I think it's a very good attitude to envision a happy life with or without a partner - if that's what you're saying.


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## Openminded

TheTruthHurts said:


> @ResignedWife and @Openminded I have nothing against being independent and happy.
> 
> Nor with "freedom".
> 
> My point is that you can and should have that in a healthy marriage.
> 
> I'm not here due to infidelity or relationship issues. I have different reasons. But I think I represent what some here refer to as the 1% of marriages (perhaps 1% here but WAY higher IRL). And I'm concerned you won't see what those of us in a healthy marriage see.
> 
> I've got 30+ years with my W. We're best friends and lovers. We still are very attracted to one another and accommodate each other's sexual and intimacy needs. I like her and she likes me. I see my friends when I want and I encourage her to see hers. I want to spend more time with her than I can and vice versa. Our kids are great.
> 
> We don't see eye to eye on everything but we respect each other's opinions. If I think she's coddling the kids too much... but they aren't entitled or spoiled and she wants to do that with her time, I'm ok with it. We defer to each other on things that mean more to one than the other.
> 
> My point is that companionship is a great thing and it's entirely possible to find your ideal relationship if you're open to seeing it. If you resign yourself to NOT seeing it, you'll miss it when it happens. That's all
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You've gotten all of that in your marriage. My experience is that it's not very common to have a marriage like yours. I do wish all marriages were that way. 

Some people divorce and immediately remarry. Some people take their time and remarry eventually. Some never do remarry. That's a personal choice. Not everyone wants a relationship. The OP may decide down the road that she wants a totally different life. Or not. That's obviously up to her.


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## ResignedWife

TheTruthHurts said:


> @ResignedWife - rereading the end of your post (in a feminine, happy voice in my head  ) I think I better understand - and I think it's a very good attitude to envision a happy life with or without a partner - if that's what you're saying.


That's pretty much what I'm saying. :wink2:


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## Hellomynameis

I'm totally with you. Once my divorce is final I don't ever want to marry again. I hate being dependent on other people and I hate having other people dependent on me. Not because I'm a particularly independent person but because I've been betrayed so often I no longer trust anyone outside my immediate family. Honestly, I've reached a point in my life when my favorite days are the ones I am at left alone and can read all day without being interrupted.


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## ResignedWife

Last night I sat down and created a budget based on what my expected expenses will be once Husband and I sell the house and separate. When Husband and I discussed possibly divorcing a couple years ago, I was dreading it because my salary was very small compared to his, and I wasn't sure I'd be able to swing being a single parent - even with his custody payments to help. But according to the preliminary budget I created, I've determined I should be able to obtain a modest 3-bed house in our area in my price range with no problem, with a monthly mortgage I can more than afford after applying the 30% down-payment I'd put down.

While we won't be taking lavish vacations to Europe any time soon, it looks like I'll actually be financially okay with my husband providing a reasonable amount of child custody payments to cover some of their activities. 

That takes a HUGE weight off my mind since that was the main reason we did not pursue separation a couple years ago. My promotion and subsequent 10% raise in pay in 2016 basically enables me to be able mostly support myself and the kids now.


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## imnemtb

I am in total agreement with you. I have posted a similar amicable separation today on this site. I'm really glad I read your post. I thought I might have been the only one.


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## ResignedWife

Husband and I have decided to tell the kids over President's Day weekend about the planned separation/divorce. We were going to wait until after the first meeting with the mediator in March, but the kids keep talking about "this summer when we..." and "next school year when I..." - and it's getting hard to nod and smile and avoid answering specific questions since we may NOT be doing those things this summer and they may NOT be going to the school they expect to go to.

This is the part I'm dreading the most...


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## Openminded

It's a difficult conversation for sure. But children can adjust very well when their parents prioritize that. And it sounds like you and your husband are.


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## SunCMars

ResignedWife said:


> *Hubby* and I have made the first appointment with the mediator - she is considered the best one in our area and so *we* couldn't get on her calendar until early March. *We* thought we'd be able to see her in early February, but then a calendar conflict arose and now *we'll* wait until March. She has confirmed the first meeting will solely be about building a parenting plan and how to tell the kids and our extended families.
> 
> Between now and that appointment, *we're* going to each rent storage units and begin going through the garage/attic together, dividing stuff and getting rid of anything neither of us wants, as well as making a list of all the furniture in the house and who gets what. *We* won't be able to start doing that until mid-February, but if *we* dedicate two full Saturdays to it, we should be able to get a lot done. The kids will not suspect anything since we've been talking about going through the garage/attic for a long time.
> 
> *We've* also made the complete list of all the repairs/cleanups needed around the house and will begin those immediately rather than wait - starting with all the stuff that *we* know we can do ourselves.


If I may be *so Bold*. See what I bolded above? All those words. The specific usages. 

You said that no man [going forward] will be in your life. That is going backwards....IMHO.

Soon, there will be no more need for those words above that are bolded. 
Soon your bed will be empty and cold.
Soon your kitchen table will be empty....on those days when he has the little darlings. 
Soon his favorite chair in the living room will be empty.
Soon his kitchen chair will be empty.
Soon your arms will be empty.
Soon your lips will remain un-kissed. 
Soon that comfortable place between your thighs will be empty. 

All those words, the We's, Us's, Hubby's will be gone.

Soon you will be empty and all alone..... Once the children leave the nest

Most people cannot run on Empty. How can you?

I give you a two years before an irresistible "we" snuggles up to your face.


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## ResignedWife

SunCMars said:


> If I may be *so Bold*. See what I bolded above? All those words. The specific usages.
> 
> You said that no man [going forward] will be in your life. That is going backwards....IMHO.
> 
> ...
> 
> All those words, the We's, Us's, Hubby's will be gone.
> 
> Soon you will be empty and all alone..... Once the children leave the nest
> 
> Most people cannot run on Empty. How can you?
> 
> I give you a two years before an irresistible "we" snuggles up to your face.


Thanks for the post, but I respectfully disagree. Of course I talk of We and Us and Hubby - because I'm currently married and WE are a WE until WE are no longer a WE. And even after WE are not longer a WE on paper, we'll still be a WE in spirit because we'll be co-parenting our children.

I don't plan on running on empty. Although my marriage is ending, I have a full life. I have kids I adore, a job I enjoy and great coworkers, and several friends with whom I have fun on a regular basis. Those things won't END once my husband and I are no longer married. I'll still have kids I adore, a job I enjoy and great coworkers, and several friends with whom I have fun on a regular basis. And the same will hold true once my kids move out on their own in 4-5 years, too. 

I know several people who are divorced, and none of them are sitting at home doing nothing just because they do not have men in their lives. Is companionship a good thing? Absolutely. But companionship doesn't have to be STRICTLY a dating/marriage relationship. =)


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## SunCMars

ResignedWife said:


> Thanks for the post, but I respectfully disagree. Of course I talk of We and Us and Hubby - because I'm currently married and WE are a WE until WE are no longer a WE. And even after WE are not longer a WE on paper, we'll still be a WE in spirit because we'll be co-parenting our children.
> 
> I don't plan on running on empty. Although my marriage is ending, I have a full life. I have kids I adore, a job I enjoy and great coworkers, and several friends with whom I have fun on a regular basis. Those things won't END once my husband and I are no longer married. I'll still have kids I adore, a job I enjoy and great coworkers, and several friends with whom I have fun on a regular basis. And the same will hold true once my kids move out on their own in 4-5 years, too.
> 
> I know several people who are divorced, and none of them are sitting at home doing nothing just because they do not have men in their lives. Is companionship a good thing? Absolutely. *But companionship doesn't have to be STRICTLY a dating/marriage relationship. =)*


That is what I wanted to hear. I get upset when even one women gives up on men. Gives up on companionship !!

That is women talk for getting something fixed around the house by a "companion". Then making the companion dinner. 

Then him doing some more needed repairs under the "sheets". He puts your plumbing in good order. 

And then you send that handy man home with a smile on his face.


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## ResignedWife

Latest update:

Hubby and I worked on a few things over the weekend. We realized the custody days we had "assigned" were not enough for him - we had counted wrong. So we looked over the calendar (assuming a July separation start) and finally got it up to 115 nights for him, which is what he wanted. The rest of the nights go to me, with some flexibility whenever the kids just plain ol' want to be with their dad. He calculated the child custody amount on the state custody calculator (which I've read the mediator will use as a starting point) and didn't even bat an eye when he saw how much it was per month, and said it was totally fine with him. Since it was more than I was expecting, I'm fine with it too, but if the mediator thinks it should be lower based on other factors the calculator doesn't consider, I'm fine with that as well. I certainly would never request it be higher than what my husband calculated though.

We also did some finetuning to the "who gets what" list for the furniture and such. We moved some things around on the list, which were all fine with me. Our hope is to have that list pretty much final BEFORE we go to the mediator so that there's no need for discussion or quibbling over who gets what. We agree that we don't care about the VALUE of the items in the house (although he did say that one item he requested was due to the fact that I'll be getting the piano). But as of today, that list is pretty much final on all the big things in the house.

This weekend we did the paperwork to reopen a HELOC so that we can make some house repairs in preparation for selling it, and I've got an email into our contractor to get on his schedule to begin work in March. I also have emailed a landscaper we used in the past to get on his calendar to begin cleaning up the yards and add some curb appeal (my husband and I are lazy gardeners) as we head into spring. Once the work is done we'll call in a few realtors and get their opinions on listing prices and whether we need to do anything else to the house to make it as desirable as possible for a quick sale.

Lastly, we worked through how we're going to tell the kids, and when we'll tell our families. I think the plan for telling the kids, and what we'll each say, is a good one. I'm feeling much better about it now that we have a tentative "script" in place. A few weeks after we tell the kids, I'll travel to my parents' house to tell my family in person. My husband said he's in no rush to tell his family since he rarely talks to them as it is.

And that's the update. I continue to be impressed with how well it is going, especially with regard to the custody and parenting plan that Hubby and I have come up with. We both feel strongly that the less we have to pay the mediator, the better. We really want to figure everything out on our own so that we're only paying the mediator to finetune and document our decisions. So far, so good.


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## Openminded

You're doing a great job!


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## farsidejunky

ResignedWife said:


> Latest update:
> 
> Hubby and I worked on a few things over the weekend. We realized the custody days we had "assigned" were not enough for him - we had counted wrong. So we looked over the calendar (assuming a July separation start) and finally got it up to 115 nights for him, which is what he wanted. The rest of the nights go to me, with some flexibility whenever the kids just plain ol' want to be with their dad. He calculated the child custody amount on the state custody calculator (which I've read the mediator will use as a starting point) and didn't even bat an eye when he saw how much it was per month, and said it was totally fine with him. Since it was more than I was expecting, I'm fine with it too, but if the mediator thinks it should be lower based on other factors the calculator doesn't consider, I'm fine with that as well. I certainly would never request it be higher than what my husband calculated though.
> 
> We also did some finetuning to the "who gets what" list for the furniture and such. We moved some things around on the list, which were all fine with me. Our hope is to have that list pretty much final BEFORE we go to the mediator so that there's no need for discussion or quibbling over who gets what. We agree that we don't care about the VALUE of the items in the house (although he did say that one item he requested was due to the fact that I'll be getting the piano). But as of today, that list is pretty much final on all the big things in the house.
> 
> This weekend we did the paperwork to reopen a HELOC so that we can make some house repairs in preparation for selling it, and I've got an email into our contractor to get on his schedule to begin work in March. I also have emailed a landscaper we used in the past to get on his calendar to begin cleaning up the yards and add some curb appeal (my husband and I are lazy gardeners) as we head into spring. Once the work is done we'll call in a few realtors and get their opinions on listing prices and whether we need to do anything else to the house to make it as desirable as possible for a quick sale.
> 
> Lastly, we worked through how we're going to tell the kids, and when we'll tell our families. I think the plan for telling the kids, and what we'll each say, is a good one. I'm feeling much better about it now that we have a tentative "script" in place. A few weeks after we tell the kids, I'll travel to my parents' house to tell my family in person. My husband said he's in no rush to tell his family since he rarely talks to them as it is.
> 
> And that's the update. I continue to be impressed with how well it is going, especially with regard to the custody and parenting plan that Hubby and I have come up with. We both feel strongly that the less we have to pay the mediator, the better. We really want to figure everything out on our own so that we're only paying the mediator to finetune and document our decisions. So far, so good.


It is nice to hear two people working on parting ways amicably on this site for a change.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

farsidejunky said:


> It is nice to hear two people working on parting ways amicably on this site for a change.


Amen to that! 

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## ResignedWife

Last night I did a "practice run" on a good friend of mine, telling her about the impending separation. This friend did not know until last night that this was happening, so it was a way for me to tell the story ahead of telling my family, to gauge how it might go over.

Well, I didn't realize just how invested my friend was in our "successful" marriage. She did not take the news well at all. She took it with humor, but kept trying to give me advice on how to save the marriage. I explained how we had gone to counseling several times during our marriage and that while it helped us build a decent relationship, it wasn't a great marriage. She just couldn't fathom that the husband and I made the mutual decision to separate. 

Despite my attempts to tell a balanced story - and assign no blame - she immediately took "my" side and said she never wants to talk to my husband again. I tried to tell her that there was no right or wrong in this situation - that we were not divorcing because of any trauma or bad behavior. It was merely a case of two people who had grown apart over the years and realized they were just friends, but not best friends/soul mates. She wouldn't accept that at all.

She and I talked again this morning and while she said she is resigned to it, she's very sad and still has no plans on speaking to Husband ever again. The good news is she lives in another state, and so rarely talks to my husband as it is, but it's still worrying that this test run in announcing the news did not go as smoothly as I hoped.

Last night after I got off the phone with my friend, I went back through the conversation in my mind to see if I had said anything biased against my husband that might have triggered such a reaction, and I honestly couldn't think of anything. But clearly I need to figure out another way to announce it to my parents next month.


----------



## Openminded

Expect everyone to be opposed (and vocal about it). 

All my friends and family were in shock that I was ending a very long marriage. They all tried extremely hard to convince me to stay. Until then I hadn't realized how many people had an emotional investment in our marriage and wanted it to last forever. They thought it was absolutely perfect but it was so far from that. It was a difficult time (some of my friends and family never accepted it) but life moves on. 

I got through it a step at a time. You will too.


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## aine

Just wondered, were you guys in love when you got married?
There have been many ups and downs in my marriage - i"m still in it but I could never imagine being so indifferent to the break up of the marriage. I just wonder how did you both get to this place. I admire what you are doing but know I could never do it, I'm an all of nothing kind of person I guess.


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## jsmart

Your friends reaction is because society usually puts the blame on the men. Aren't all men dogs but a woman is "empowered."

Anyway, your story saddens me. If you're able to go about this so amicably, then I feel there is enough to work through any issues. 

I don't know your back story, if there was adultery on either side to cause the distance between you two but it just seems a shame for this to end. There is still something there worth fighting for.


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## ResignedWife

aine said:


> Just wondered, were you guys in love when you got married?
> There have been many ups and downs in my marriage - i"m still in it but I could never imagine being so indifferent to the break up of the marriage. I just wonder how did you both get to this place. I admire what you are doing but know I could never do it, I'm an all of nothing kind of person I guess.





jsmart said:


> Your friends reaction is because society usually puts the blame on the men. Aren't all men dogs but a woman is "empowered."
> 
> Anyway, your story saddens me. If you're able to go about this so amicably, then I feel there is enough to work through any issues.
> 
> I don't know your back story, if there was adultery on either side to cause the distance between you two but it just seems a shame for this to end. There is still something there worth fighting for.


Yes, we were in love when we got married. But we have had issues from the very beginning of our marriage. I won't go into details, but over the course of 20 years we dealt with issues including TERRIBLE fighting, untreated clinical depression, significant weight gain, lack of sexual and emotional intimacy, two long distance moves away from family/friends/support systems, porn addiction, and one case of an emotional affair, among a few other things.

In year 2 we discussed divorcing, but decided to keep trying. In year 10 we went to counseling and discussed divorcing, but decided to keep trying. In year 17 we went to counseling and discussed divorcing, but decided to keep trying. Four months ago we discussed divorce, but decided to wait a bit longer. Six weeks ago we both realized we were beating a dead horse.

I may have said this in a prior post, but when the emotional affair (which was on the verge of becoming physical) came out, that's when we dealt with our hardest emotions. Anger, bitterness, resentment - discovery of the almost-affair is when those emotions were spent. But then came forgiveness, counseling, and an agreement to keep trying. AGAIN.

But at what point do you say, "I'm done trying - nothing is IMPROVING for either of us despite all this effort."

For us, the only thing that improved was that we stopped fighting so much. But we were never able to improve our emotional vulnerability and intimacy with each other, which he and I both believe married couples need to have. At this point there is too much water under the bridge and it's time to cut our losses and allow each other to move on.

Trust me, we're not indifferent to it. There is definitely pain there - otherwise we wouldn't have cried with each other the night we made the final decision to move forward with a separation. But there's a greater sense that we NEED to be amicable and do this the "right" way for our kids.

ETA: I'll also say that when I told my friend the story, I did my best to tell a balanced, fair story that put no blame on one person. I was up front about the fact that we both made mistakes during our marriage and mutually decided to divorce. Admittedly, she was friends with me before I even met my husband, so she has greater loyalty to me in the long run, but it saddens me that she took a side despite my specific request that she NOT take a side because there was no side to take.


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## Betrayedone

It all sounds so very clinical.......I understand the emotion has dwindled over time. Very similar to my situation. Still almost killed me though even though I knew it was coming.


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## ResignedWife

Betrayedone said:


> It all sounds so very clinical.......I understand the emotion has dwindled over time. Very similar to my situation. Still almost killed me though even though I knew it was coming.


Just yesterday I was talking to a coworker about it (she has known about our troubles for 10 years) and began crying. It may sound clinical and cold here online, but in real life, it's not.

Trust me, we're not robots.


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## mickybill

ResignedWife said:


> I don't plan on running on empty. Although my marriage is ending, I have a full life. I have kids I adore, a job I enjoy and great coworkers, and several friends with whom I have fun on a regular basis. Those things won't END once my husband and I are no longer married. I'll still have kids I adore, a job I enjoy and great coworkers, and several friends with whom I have fun on a regular basis. And the same will hold true once my kids move out on their own in 4-5 years, too.


As a divorced guy mid 50s I meet quite a few women in this same mindset. I think many "mature" women (not 20-30 year olds) come out better after a divorce because of exactly what you say, They have a home, a good job, a nice social network and the kids. AkA a life. Different priorites than when they got married 20-30 years ago. While a few I know are looking for H#2 many are pretty happy with their new lives, have a good dating life without a "OMG I need a husband attitude". They aren't hermit man-haters but date when and with who they want. Finding a husband is not A#1 on the to do list. IT'll happen when it happens.
A couple men I know jumped out of the frying pan and in to the fire because they NEEDED W#2 (#3 in one guys case..) 
Of course your mileage may vary...

I like your avatar - shows a good attitude :smile2:


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## ResignedWife

My sister's family is coming into town today to stay the night on their way to Florida. It turns out, my parents are also stopping through (I had thought they were flying directly to Florida to meet my sister's family). 

This morning I told my husband that I thought that tonight would be the perfect time to tell my side of the family, and my husband immediately and adamantly opposed telling them. I reminded him that the only other times I could tell them would be my sister's birthday weekend (since I'm going up there for that), or Easter - which is way too long to wait. 

I told him the only other alternative is to tell my sister (at least) NEXT weekend when they stay with us on their way home from Florida. Then maybe I go go up early for my sister's birthday and stay with my parents for a night, and tell them.

I don't know this as fact, it's only my assumption, but I think he's really afraid to be there when we/I tell my parents. My parents are very old-fashioned, and very religious, and I think he feels that they will judge HIM for the separation, as opposed to taking us at our word that it was a mutual decision.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

There will never be a good time to tell them. If the decision is final, just do it. And tell everyone all at once so the chances of them hearing it from someone else would be slim.


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## ResignedWife

I agree, tropicalbeachiwish. I'll give him the morning to think about it and then email him and ask him why he is opposed to telling them (although I already know what he'll say). 

Once he tells me he's worried about telling them and how they'll react, I'll tell him that we can tell my sister next week, since our kids will know at that point (and really, we SHOULD tell the kids first), and then ask my sister's permission to drive up and tell my parents the day before her birthday celebration next month.


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## EllaSuaveterre

If you both have no hard feelings toward each other and seldom argue, why aren't you staying?


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## ResignedWife

EllaSuaveterre said:


> If you both have no hard feelings toward each other and seldom argue, why aren't you staying?


Because it's effectively a loveless marriage. At least, loveless in the sense that it's not a MARRIED kind of love. My husband has admitted on a few occasions that he wants PASSION and EXCITEMENT. In the words of a friend of mine, very few married-for-a-long-time couples are gettin' busy on the kitchen counter or sneaking off in the middle of a party to go at it in the bathroom. So I don't know what kind of romance novels he's reading (j/k), but when I look around at my friends and family who are married they are not living PASSIONATE, EXCITED lives. They work 40 hours a week, have a couple kids, a mortgage, a gym membership, and at least one family vacation a year. A typical married, settled, suburban life. 

That's not enough for him, and while it is enough for me, I have enough sense to know that I'm not going to force him to stay in the "friends only" marriage just because it's convenient for me. If I do that, he'll continue to be depressed, feel that he's missing out somehow, begin to blame his situation on me and, most likely, cheat on me. And while I'm not responsible for his personal happiness, I feel that I can at least contribute a little bit by setting him free to go find passion and excitement with someone else.


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## jsmart

I've been with my wife for 30 years, 27 married. We have 4 kids with the youngest turning 15 in a few days. I love my wife and still find her sexy and very desirable. Our love life is not as passionate as I'd like but sex about 3 times a week is far from dead. And your right, we aren't having sex on the kitchen counter either, unless she wants too  but that doesn't mean you don't try to add some passion.

You mentioned weight gain and an "almost" affair. Are you saying that your husband became over weight and you no longer are able to have sex with him? 

I think your husband doesn't want to tell your parents because then it becomes more official. He's having doubts about busting up the family. Being in a sexless marriage is soul crushing but he still obviously loves you, which is what your friends see, hence their shock.


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## ResignedWife

jsmart said:


> I've been with my wife for 30 years, 27 married. We have 4 kids with the youngest turning 15 in a few days. I love my wife and still find her sexy and very desirable. Our love life is not as passionate as I'd like but sex about 3 times a week is far from dead. And your right, we aren't having sex on the kitchen counter either, unless she wants too  but that doesn't mean you don't try to add some passion.
> 
> You mentioned weight gain and an "almost" affair. Are you saying that your husband became over weight and you no longer are able to have sex with him?
> 
> I think your husband doesn't want to tell your parents because then it becomes more official. He's having doubts about busting up the family. Being in a sexless marriage is soul crushing but he still obviously loves you, which is what your friends see, hence their shock.


It was the opposite way around - I gained weight after the birth of our two kids, and he subsequently lost all physical attraction for me when the weight didn't come off. He has been very open about the fact that he feels horrible about not being attracted to me anymore, but that's just how it is. I've attempted to lose weight over the years, with varying degrees of success (and failure) - but the fact is, I'll never been the 130 pound woman he met 20+ years ago. I'm not huge, by any means, but I'm bigger than he'd like.

But the fact is, that's not what is ending our marriage - as I told him, I think that even if I lost all the weight today, we'd still not have the kind of marriage we both wanted. There's too much water under the bridge at this point.

We are planning to tell the kids this Thursday night - if he balks at telling them, then he and I will need to sit down and have a talk about whether he really wants to do this or not. I don't mind waiting another year, if that's what he wants. But we need to decide if he's getting cold feet.


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## TheTruthHurts

FWIW I do believe you can recreate passion in a long term marriage. It takes deep commitment though because of life's distractions and the tendency of one to become complacent as you have mentioned.

It's a shame your H has external judgements and thoughts clouding his judgements. Thinking you have to be a certain weight flies in the face of who you are today. That's what I mean. Of course you've tried to lose weight. But there are many ways of wrapping up what you have and making it appealing.

Anyway good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars

Openminded said:


> I agree.
> 
> I married young and was in a very long marriage. I love being single. The freedom is wonderful. No way I'd give that up.


Your post is apropos to Resigned Wife's. As in, RW's future, down the road travels on the winding roads, hilly roads, lonely dark roads.

"Openminded", how do your Suitors feel about this? This feeling of independence of *yours*?

Do they eventually feel that it Suits-her, but not them. Do "them" have a say? 

When they get too close, do you send them on their way? When they look back at you as they are walking out of "your" shadow, do they turn around looking for reprieve? Or do you snap their necks prior to the goodbyes?

As a single women, if you let a man kiss your lips and let a man do his duty, does he not want more? You may not. You say you are resolute in your pursuit of independence.

Oh, I know, friends with benefits. You get, he gets. 
THAT gets old and stale after awhile. 
Snap neck, move on.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

These are questions, nothing more. 

Celebrating 'Independence Day' every day of the year, is a big responsibility. And doing so, while remaining intimate with others has the potential of heart wrenching drama...from another loving and giving heart. 

If one were low to medium passion, I guess this would work for you. If you are high passion, with a high sex drive.....I see a trail of males, un-suit-able to you. In your wake, a trail of broken hearts and limp peters laying wounded in the weeds.

This is all conjecture: that you continue to maintain intimacy with attractive males. Maybe you are now celibate. And happy being so. Dunno.


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## Openminded

SunCMars said:


> Your post is apropos to Resigned Wife's. As in, RW's future, down the road travels on the winding roads, hilly roads, lonely dark roads.
> 
> "Openminded", how do your Suitors feel about this? This feeling of independence of *yours*?
> 
> Do they eventually feel that it Suits-her, but not them. Do "them" have a say?
> 
> When they get too close, do you send them on their way? When they look back at you as they are walking out of "your" shadow, do they turn around looking for reprieve? Or do you snap their necks prior to the goodbyes?
> 
> As a single women, if you let a man kiss your lips and let a man do his duty, does he not want more? You may not. You say you are resolute in your pursuit of independence.
> 
> Oh, I know, friends with benefits. You get, he gets.
> THAT gets old and stale after awhile.
> Snap neck, move on.
> ..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
> 
> These are questions, nothing more.
> 
> Celebrating 'Independence Day' every day of the year, is a big responsibility. And doing so, while remaining intimate with others has the potential of heart wrenching drama...from another loving and giving heart.
> 
> If one were low to medium passion, I guess this would work for you. If you are high passion, with a high sex drive.....I see a trail of males, un-suit-able to you. In your wake, a trail of broken hearts and limp peters laying wounded in the weeds.
> 
> This is all conjecture: that you continue to maintain intimacy with attractive males. Maybe you are now celibate. And happy being so. Dunno.


I will attempt to answer. 

I am LD and have been since I first began dating many decades ago. When I was married, intimacy was something I focused on for my husband. Now I don't have to focus on it and I don't. I'm very comfortable alone. I prefer that. When I do date (very rarely) it's as friends only and I make it very clear I am not interested in anything more. Yes, the men I've always dated are very attractive (I can enjoy their looks and their company without feeling the need for anything more). Yes, they try to convince me to change my mind (but I don't). 

I was the ultimate caregiver for all the decades I was married. My focus was always on others. I had very little idea who I really was besides wife and mom. When I divorced I wanted a much different life and I got it. I wouldn't change anything about it. Not everyone would be happy with my new life but I am. I stayed on TAM after my divorce to let women coming out of very long marriages like mine know it's okay to take a different path going forward.


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## ResignedWife

Husband and I have decided to go out to dinner on Wednesday night to go over the fact that we plan on telling the kids on Thursday night - I've told him he needs to be 100% sure this is what he wants before we tell the kids, because then it's "real" and word will begin to get out (even moreso once I tell my sister on Saturday as she's coming back through town).

I told him I wanted to make sure that this is what he wants right now, or whether he wants to wait another year and not rush the selling of the house and moving. By waiting until April 2018 to put the house on the market, this would also mean less chaos for our kids since they'll both be in high school at that point, versus having our younger one go to a brand new school for one year (Aug '17 - May '18) because of the lack of housing in my price range in our current middle school zoning. 

So we'll see what Husband decides on Wednesday.


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## SunCMars

Openminded said:


> I will attempt to answer.
> 
> I am LD and have been since I first began dating many decades ago. When I was married, intimacy was something I focused on for my husband. Now I don't have to focus on it and I don't. I'm very comfortable alone. I prefer that. When I do date (very rarely) it's as friends only and I make it very clear I am not interested in anything more. Yes, the men I've always dated are very attractive (I can enjoy their looks and their company without feeling the need for anything more). Yes, they try to convince me to change my mind (but I don't).
> 
> I was the ultimate caregiver for all the decades I was married. My focus was always on others. I had very little idea who I really was besides wife and mom. When I divorced I wanted a much different life and I got it. I wouldn't change anything about it. Not everyone would be happy with my new life but I am. I stayed on TAM after my divorce to let women coming out of very long marriages like mine know it's okay to take a different path going forward.


How lucky you are.

You can cruise through life un-ruffled. 

Every hair in place. No smeared lipstick.
............................................................................................................
Me, being single?

I would plunge into the deep end. I would plunge into women until one hooked me good....dragging me to the surface and into her net.


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## ResignedWife

SunCMars said:


> How lucky you are.
> 
> You can cruise through life un-ruffled.
> 
> Every hair in place. No smeared lipstick.
> ............................................................................................................
> Me, being single?
> 
> I would plunge into the deep end. I would plunge into women until one hooked me good....dragging me to the surface and into her net.


And that's YOU. YOU would be that way. Not everyone would. You keep trying to apply YOUR feelings on post-divorce single life to other people (women in particular, in this thread), but every person is different and approaches things differently. Some divorced women get married again. Some don't. Who cares what someone decides to do? 

I don't know why you keep assuming that the women who choose single life after divorce will be miserable or unfulfilled.


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## SunCMars

ResignedWife said:


> And that's YOU. YOU would be that way. Not everyone would. You keep trying to apply YOUR feelings on post-divorce single life to other people (women in particular, in this thread), but every person is different and approaches things differently. Some divorced women get married again. Some don't. Who cares what someone decides to do?
> 
> I don't know why you keep assuming that the women who choose single life after divorce will be miserable or unfulfilled.


Sorry.

I bid you to convince me. I enjoy the repertoire. Some people can reach out and touch a nerve.

Your tingling is painful. I see that.

I worry too much about others.

This forum is all over the board with advice. Pick your own heroes, ignore the chatter. 

Yes, my advice is.............you fill in the blank. My feelings are not important!


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## ZedZ

ResignedWife said:


> Husband and I have decided to go out to dinner on Wednesday night to go over the fact that we plan on telling the kids on Thursday night - I've told him he needs to be 100% sure this is what he wants before we tell the kids, because then it's "real" and word will begin to get out (even moreso once I tell my sister on Saturday as she's coming back through town).
> 
> I told him I wanted to make sure that this is what he wants right now, or whether he wants to wait another year and not rush the selling of the house and moving. By waiting until April 2018 to put the house on the market, this would also mean less chaos for our kids since they'll both be in high school at that point, versus having our younger one go to a brand new school for one year (Aug '17 - May '18) because of the lack of housing in my price range in our current middle school zoning.
> 
> So we'll see what Husband decides on Wednesday.



Looking from the outside....long time married (30+
years) I am sensing that there seems to be some doubt or hesitation...I may be picking it up from your husband end not really sure...if it's easier on the kids to wait and you guys are OK with it I might wait it out for the year...you never know what life has in store.. Just my 2 cents...


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## wilson

I feel it might be better to wait to tell the children. You're pretty pragmatic about the situation, but I expect the children to be much more emotional. It will be like when you told your friend, only worse. I would expect them to be confused and deal with a lot of emotions. I would expect them to also pick sides. I think it will be harder to try to all live together after you tell them. 

Before you tell the kids, would you consider talking with a family counselor to get professional advice? They would likely have dealt with this situation many times and would be able to give very relevant advice on when you should tell your kids.


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## TheTruthHurts

You only have a little more time to show your kids how to pick a mate and have a good marriage before they're gone - and your influence wanes.

I think it's better to do this now so they can process this and ask questions and confront the problems you've encountered. "You mean it's not acceptable to just be an ok partner and get along? You mean there can be more to a marriage? You mean there can be love and respect and attraction and sex? You mean I should look for more than a pleasant roommate?"

They will model your behavior and choose a passionless partner and have a passionless marriage if that's what you show them. If you show then that that isn't enough - and are willing to leave with no safety net because IT TRULY isn't enough, you'll at least have them searching for more for themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ResignedWife

ZedZ said:


> Looking from the outside....long time married (30+
> years) I am sensing that there seems to be some doubt or hesitation...I may be picking it up from your husband end not really sure...if it's easier on the kids to wait and you guys are OK with it I might wait it out for the year...you never know what life has in store.. Just my 2 cents...


I don't think his hesitation is about ending the marriage, per se, but about TELLING people that the marriage is ending, and facing their disappointment or (potentially) disapproval. I know he absolutely wants to move on from our marriage (which I accept after all the work we've put into our relationship that has not fixed all our issues) - of that there is no doubt.

I think he's petrified of telling my sister and my parents. I even think he'll be fine when we tell the kids. But my parents are a rare breed and a bit intimidating. I've told him that's why telling my sister this weekend is imperative - it gives HER a chance to absorb the news so that when we/I tell my parents next month, my sister will be there to support us and also help my parents grieve.


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## ResignedWife

wilson said:


> I feel it might be better to wait to tell the children. You're pretty pragmatic about the situation, but I expect the children to be much more emotional. It will be like when you told your friend, only worse. I would expect them to be confused and deal with a lot of emotions. I would expect them to also pick sides. I think it will be harder to try to all live together after you tell them.
> 
> Before you tell the kids, would you consider talking with a family counselor to get professional advice? They would likely have dealt with this situation many times and would be able to give very relevant advice on when you should tell your kids.


Last night I talked with a friend of mine from church who divorced a few years ago and had to tell her kids. I told her about my impending separation, and ran through the "script" that I had come up with for telling the kids. She said that it was pretty much exactly what she and her XH told their kids (they also divorced amicably). She said her kids took it pretty well at the time and it's really only been now (three years later) that one of her kids is struggling with having to bounce between two households. When she saw her daughter struggling, she immediately took her to therapy in order to work through her emotions, and my friend that said has helped tremendously.

I do not think my kids will pick sides if there are no clear sides to pick. As I said, we don't fight, so it's not like the kids have been witness to battles in the household in which there are clear right actions and wrong actions. And our goal is to stress that NO ONE is to blame and that we decided TOGETHER that this is what we needed to do. My friend said that she and her husband did exactly that, and their kids did not pick sides. 

As for continuing to live together, if we do end up telling them on Thursday, then things will move very quickly - with the goal of the house being on the market within the next 6-8 weeks, and closed within 30-45 days after that so that by the time school is over, we'll be in separate households.


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## Openminded

SunCMars said:


> How lucky you are.
> 
> You can cruise through life un-ruffled.
> 
> Every hair in place. No smeared lipstick.
> ............................................................................................................
> Me, being single?
> 
> I would plunge into the deep end. I would plunge into women until one hooked me good....dragging me to the surface and into her net.


Yes, I am very lucky. And very happy. 

I still miss my ex-husband (we met at 18 and were together for many decades) but I don't miss my former life. 

We all have different paths. I finally found mine.


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## ResignedWife

Husband and I had an interesting dinner last night. We both agreed to slow down and not feel rushed to end things. We will still end the marriage (that's a definite), but rather than give ourselves a fast deadline, we'll ease into it. We've agreed to give ourselves 10-12 months to get everything done (home repairs, legal separation documentation, get finances in better shape (that's means me), get better job situations (a new job for him and a large (promised) raise for me)) and make sure we're both in healthy places for when we officially separate. The new plan is to tell the kids in January 2018, put the house in the market in March 2018, and be in new places by June 2018.

When we first began the discussion last night I told him I saw three scenarios - 1) continue to move forward now (and tell the kids tonight), 2) wait a year and do things methodically and cleanly over the next year), or 3) wait until the kids are out of high school (five years). He immediately balked at waiting five years, but did say that since we get along well despite growing apart romantically/emotionally, he can definitely handle waiting another year. 

And so just like that the decision was made to wait a year. During that time we can:

1) Get the house in order - rather than rush to get the repairs done all in one go, we can do them slowly over the course of 2017, as well as slowly go through the entire house and get rid of stuff neither of us wants/needs. We have VERY old indoor-only cat that is ruining the carpet and we don't want to replace it now if she's going to potentially ruin the new stuff, so we can save on that expense for another 8-10 months since neither of us think the cat will last that long.

2) Not worry about schools - by waiting to list the house in March 2018, it guarantees that our youngest can remain in his assigned middle school. After that, both kids will be in high school and the housing market widens significantly for me.

3) His job and my raise - he is actively seeking new employment and he did say that he was worried that a new job, a new house and being newly separated may be a bit too much change for him (he dislikes change in general). By focusing right now only on finding a new job, he will hopefully be well settled into that when the time comes to formally begin our separation. Additionally, my boss has said she wants me to get a 15-20% raise this year, and is working on that - once I have that (likely this summer), my finances will vastly improve (a win for me) AND the amount Husband would need to give me for child support also decreases (a win for him).

4) Mediation - we will still go to the mediator to begin drawing up the legal paperwork, starting in March. But instead of feeling like we have to get it all done very quickly (6-8 weeks), we can take our time and do it right and make sure no one is making short-term rash decisions that may affect our long-term futures.

The other benefit to waiting is that it may mean I can keep the house - we'd be one year further into our 15-year mortgage, and if I refinanced into a 7/1 ARM (which we've done before so I'm familiar with them) AND increased the mortgage amount in order to buy him out, I may be able to afford the payments if my promised raise comes through. This way the kids and I wouldn't have to move at all. That was another idea I mentioned to my husband last night, which he thought sounded great since he knows how much the kids would probably prefer to remain in the only house they remember ever living in.

We both felt good about this decision to wait a bit longer, but also both agreed that if either of us changed our mind and decided we should go ahead and separate sooner, we'd tell the other spouse and begin to move more quickly to complete the process.


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## aine

Resigned Wife,

May I ask, how do you feel about this decision? It appears that your H has decided he is not attracted to you anymore and therefore you should part ways, though you both enjoy each others company, do things together, there is no animosity, etc. How do you feel about all of this?
Even you name says that you give in without a fight, is this what you wanted too, or did you just simply give in to your H?
You know sometimes people don't know what they want. There are many marriages in a worse state than yours, yet love can be revived.

I get the feeling that you two will go ahead with this and realise that you both made a mistake and that in fact 'far away fields are not really green.' just wondering.


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## ResignedWife

aine said:


> Resigned Wife,
> 
> May I ask, how do you feel about this decision? It appears that your H has decided he is not attracted to you anymore and therefore you should part ways, though you both enjoy each others company, do things together, there is no animosity, etc. How do you feel about all of this?
> Even you name says that you give in without a fight, is this what you wanted too, or did you just simply give in to your H?
> You know sometimes people don't know what they want. There are many marriages in a worse state than yours, yet love can be revived.
> 
> I get the feeling that you two will go ahead with this and realise that you both made a mistake and that in fact 'far away fields are not really green.' just wondering.


I am fine with the decision, despite my username (which was just something I came up with when my first few choices were already taken).

We have both been unhappy for a while - but for different reasons. When the idea of divorce came up a few years ago, the ONLY reason I said no at the time was finances - I just knew I COULDN'T make it on my own salary, even with child support. Had I been in a better place financially, we'd already be divorced a couple years at this point.

The fact is, that while he is not happy with me, I'm not happy with him either. I can't speak for all of HIS reasons (aside from knowing he doesn't like the weight gain after I had kids that I was never able to lose), but for me, I have issues with:

1) his lack of engagement with the kids (I know this won't necessarily change once we divorce, but at least the kids won't be exposed to it every day, like they are now).

2) his impatience - he's not violent in *any* way, but he is not a patient man and can get annoyed over the smallest thing very easily, which results in a snide attitude along with rude comments. And rather than letting it go, he'll harp on it for days. Not a fun thing to be around day in and day out. 

3) his lack of Christian faith - I grew up in a Christian household, and am a Christian myself. He was not religious when we got married, but did claim to have a conversion experience a few years after we got married. But it is clear now he was only going through the motions at the time. And while I'm not super-religious, I do go to church and am active in a ladies Bible study, and wish that my husband would lead the household as a man of faith. But he recently told me that while he believes in God, he doesn't care much about the rest. He doesn't begrudge me my spiritual life (or my decision to take the kids to church), but he won't actively participate himself.

That's just three I can think of right now, but I know there are more. He's a good man in many ways, and I know he'll make someone else very happy someday. But after all this time, it just isn't ME. He doesn't make me happy. And while I do not believe other people have a *responsibility* to make me happy, I do think other people can naturally create happiness just by being around. My kids, for example, bring me GREAT happiness and joy. I love being around them and being involved in their lives and helping them become happy, kind, well-adjusted, responsible and caring people. My husband does not.

So yes, I am a ResignedWife, but I still must stress that it was a MUTUAL decision.


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## ResignedWife

Just wanted to write down some thoughts I'm having this week.

Part of me has started to think that I DON'T want to wait until next year to separate. I think this summer might be best after all. There are a few things I've thought of over the past few days that make me think this - 

1) the real estate market is warming up again (more listings coming on the market) and the houses coming on the market in my price range are wonderful. I fear if we wait a year those types of homes may appreciate in value just enough that I can no longer afford them. Alternatively, if we wait to sell the house - the market could very well TANK in the next 12 months (although it has never dropped in our market - only flattened) and we won't be able to get top dollar for our home like we could now.

2) my husband went out for a drink by himself last Friday night. I'm not a big drinker, but my husband does enjoy his microbrew beer (he likes trying weird, unique brews and we have a beer fridge in the garage where he keeps stuff he has bought to try). He dropped a receipt on the floor over the weekend when he was heading out to the gym, and it was for Friday night at 8 p.m. He had one beer at a brewery in town and then came home. I asked him about it when he got home from the gym (completely non-judging) and he said that yes, after he had gone to the gym he went to get a beer. I said, "Did you meet someone there?" "No," he said, "I just felt like grabbing a beer before coming home." I had two reactions in my head. I thought, "That's what alcoholics do - they drink alone." And then I thought, "But he's not 'mine' anymore, so if he wants to go out for a beer (despite having 40-50 beers in the garage fridge to choose from), then he should be able to go out for a beer." My outside reaction was, "Okay, you dropped your receipt on your way out - can I throw it away?" (he uses his receipts for budgeting)

3) But that got me thinking about his life post-separation. What is he going to do? He has no friends (he has made very little attempt in the years we've lived here to make them), and no social life to speak of. Is he going to sit at home and just drink beer every night? Currently he keeps himself to 2-3 beers over the course of an entire evening - so he doesn't overindulge, really. He has one with dinner, and maybe one (sometimes two) once he's home from the gym. But if we're separated, and he only has the kids every other weekend, is he going to stay at home and say, "Hey, the wife and kids aren't here anymore - I can drink more" which could lead to overindulging? This is a real worry of mine for him since he tends to overdrink when he is depressed (which he may continue to be even after we separate).

4) And that leads me to my last thought. I think him moving back to our hometown (from which we moved away 11 years ago) would be the best choice for him. He'd be back in the town he loves (and misses), with much better job options. He'd be back near his family (who all live there) and some of his friends who still live there. His options for having a social life and NOT staying home every night would vastly improve. The only negative is that our hometown is four states away, so he would not see the kids nearly as much - just summers and school vacations, really. 

So as "easy" at it seems to be for our plans, I'm starting to have doubts as to whether we should wait or just go ahead and get it over with, but rather than push to list the house in April, just plan for June, knowing we can do a quick closing if need be in order to get settled into new places by summer's end before school starts.

This weekend I began going through one of my bookcases figuring out what books I can donate and get rid of so that it's that much less for me to pack down the road. And this weekend I'll be doing the rest of the bookcases in the house as well as going through the clothes in my closet to get rid of some of those things that I don't wear anymore. 

We meet with the mediator next week. I may bring up during that first meeting the idea of going ahead with the separation now rather than waiting, and see what the mediator has to say (she may recommend against waiting for fear of future breakdown in communication and trust).

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to write down some of the things I've been thinking since the weekend.


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## farsidejunky

I know you know this, but none of those things are your concern anymore. 

I promise you he will figure something out.

Also, speaking as an alcoholic, if your husband wanted to consume excessive amounts of alcohol, neither you talking to him nor your proximity to him would affect his choices to consume more.

I think his evening out was him realizing that he needs to step out of his comfort zone and start to make friends with people.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

I believe that if you've solidified the decision to split then just get it over with. I don't understand the dragging it out over the next year. It sounded like it was just a delay to tell family members which is going to have to happen whether it's now or whether it's in 8 months. It has to be done, so just do it. 

Selling the house now is a great time. You're right; you don't know what the housing market is going to be in 1 year. 

It sounds like you suspect your husband of having a drinking problem? It could very well be, but there isn't anything that you can do about it. My husband is an alcoholic and I can tell you that alcoholics are known for hiding their drinking and/or downplaying it. At this point, I don't think this should be your focus. Your focus needs to be on moving forward with the split. And as Farside said, he could just be starting to branch out socially. 

Continue to prep the house for selling, meet with your mediator, and talk to family/friends about the divorce. You could talk to a realtor and they would be able to give you tips on how to prep your house for the market.


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## ResignedWife

I don't think he has a drinking problem, but I do know that when he gets severely depressed he drinks more than a normal person. After the almost-affair was discovered a few years ago, he began drinking 3-4 beers a night, but when I confronted him with my concerns, he completely agreed and went down to only having 1-2 beers per week for a very long time. Then he went back to having one with dinner every night, which I don't mind at all. Then a few months ago I noticed an uptick, which I mentioned to him again, and he agreed that he was drinking more and that it was because of how stressed he is with work. 

Is he an alcoholic? Definitely not. I've known alcoholics and he's not even close. But he has a proclivity to overindulge on occasion (at parties) or when he's feeling down.

I agree that it's possible he only went out to get the drink to see if he could be social - he mentioned to me a month or so ago that the beer app he uses can tell him if people that use the app are out at nearby bars/breweries having a drink. It's very possible one popped up on Friday at the place nearby and he decided to stop in after his workout.

As for the delay in separating, it was mainly so that he could find a new job without having TOO much change at one time. But my fear is that the job market is so limited that it will take him FOREVER to find a new job - and I don't want to live in limbo that long the more I think about it!


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## Openminded

My ex-husband and I continued living together, but separated, for almost a year after I told him I was divorcing him. There were very good reasons for handling things that way but it was a miserable time. He spent most of that period at his girlfriend's but that didn't make it easier because he still came home. He finally moved out a few months before I filed and I felt like a huge burden had been lifted. Life was good from that point on.


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## ResignedWife

Since my post this morning I've gone over it again and again in my mind, and I've decided I want to go ahead and move forward now rather than wait. But I'll wait until we're with the mediator to let that subject be brought up.

As far as his job, I think that if we sell this spring and divide the proceeds, he'll get a nice chunk of change from the sale. There's no reason he has to put all of it down as a downpayment on a new place. If he holds back $20K, and then gets laid off (which he is worried about right now), he'll have the $20K in cash reserves, his severance pay (which would be a minimum of 5 months' pay) and his unemployment coverage. He'll be fine until he finds a new job.

As for housing, *my* fear was not finding a house in the right middle school zone, but just today 3 houses in my price range popped up in that school zone - which tells me by the spring I should have no problem finding something in my price range in the right zone. 

So I think we'd be better off doing it now, since two huge barriers (his job fears, my housing fears) would most likely turn out okay.


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## ResignedWife

This is the week things will start to happen.

Our meeting with the mediator is on Thursday evening. It'll mostly be about the parenting plan, but I plan on bringing up the idea of moving forward now versus next year during that initial session. 

Over the past week I've deliberately stopped sending my husband potential job listings, to see if he would take action (considering how much he hates his job) and begin searching himself. He has not. I'm not going to be the one to put in all the work to help him find a new job - he has to do it. But he continues to go into work every day, come home and complain, and take no steps to get out. He had a recruiter call him a couple weeks ago about a possible job, and other than one email to say, "I'm interested," he's done NOTHING to followup with the recruiter to make sure the interview gets scheduled. I'm sure that opportunity is long gone at this point. This just tells me that it is all the more reason to move forward now, so that he'll feel the pressure that *he* has to invest time and energy into getting himself out of his work situation. Not just me.

We close on the HELOC this week, with work to begin two weeks from now. My hope is to tell the kids what is happening sometime between Thursday's first session and the first visit by contractors to begin fixing up the house. I'm convinced more than ever that we'll be able to sell the house quickly once it's on the market - we found out that a house down the block from us sold a couple months ago for about $20K more than we were going to ask - and yet from the pictures, our house is in better shape (even without the intended repairs we're doing), with more going for it. The only negative is they were 200 sq feet larger than our home. But we have an extra room (9) compared to them (8). So we know our intended asking price is viable for the market.

I've been looking at short sale homes in our area - one very cute home popped up on the market last week in a neighborhood I've always liked. And a FSBO that I found over a month ago is still on the market - it is an ugly house (bad 1970s modern) and only has one bath. For those two reasons I think it has not sold, despite the good sale price. I'm not concerned about only having one bath because the house is priced low enough that I could easily afford to have a 3/4-bath put in. And then there's another home in foreclosure in the same area that is also a bit ugly on the outside (this neighbor really loved the bad 1970s modern architecture back in the day) but the inside is beautifully redone - and it's in my price range. The main negative to that house is the backyard is not fenced (which I would need since I have a dog). I am not worried about buying a foreclosure because I can rent a short-term apartment as long as need be while waiting to close. My parents bought a foreclosure a few years ago so I'm familiar with the process as well as all the pitfalls and delays involved (it took them almost A YEAR to close on their house because there were so many complications).

So that's my update. I'll obviously have more on Friday after our first session with the mediator.


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## ResignedWife

Tonight we meet with the mediator. I've spent a couple days typing up a *very* lengthy outline of a parenting plan using bits and pieces that I found online and modifying it to fit our needs. My husband is reviewing it to provide his comments or change suggestions, and the plan is to take that agreed-upon plan to the mediator tonight to see if we missed anything, and go over anything for which we may not completely understand the long-term ramifications (notably: what happens if my husband decides to move out of state, what happens if we want to take the children on international travel).

We both continue to be on the same page that we want to do as much as we can BEFORE we meet with the mediator in order to keep costs down. The mediator had said that the parenting plan can take a minimum 2-3 sessions with the mediator - more if the parents cannot agree on everything. Our hope is that we can reach a finalized agreement in one.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Good luck tonight! I hope this goes as smoothly as possible.


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## ResignedWife

First session with the mediator went really well. I can tell she has been doing this a long time (over 30 years). She said she is positive we can be done in just 3-4 sessions because we are so agreeable and friendly with each other, and because we already know answers to the majority of the issues she'll be asking about. 

Last night we discussed most of the parenting plan outline I had come up with, and she suggested some modifications in language that we both liked and agreed to. She will be creating a formalized version of what we ended up with for our review and change requests, and at the next meeting we'll sign off on it. Then we'll begin work on the financial stuff, for which we told her that we had mostly figured out that stuff as well.

We also decided during last night's meeting to continue with the plan to wait until January 2018 to move forward with the separation, but gave each other the "out" that if things started to get bad then the other spouse could speak up and request we move towards separation sooner. My feeling based on last night's conversation is that once he's able to find a new job, he'll be ready to go ahead and separate - and that's fine with me.

Our next meeting with the mediator is in just under 2 weeks. We'll spent the duration gathering all our financial details to present to her, and outline our intentions.


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## prunus

farsidejunky said:


> It is nice to hear two people working on parting ways amicably on this site for a change.


Yes. Our legal separation was very amicable, too. People thought it was odd how well we settled things and that from filing date to the Final Decree was only 7 weeks. We agreed on everything before I filed. There are some choices of his that really angered me at first, but things are going really well. We get along so much better now that the marriage has ended. Good luck!


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## ResignedWife

This week have been gathering all of our net worth and liability information in preparation for our meeting with the mediator next Monday. The good news is that my husband and I already agree that what's his is his, what's mine is mine (both assets and debts) and what is joint will be divided in half. 

We have been very open about finances during our whole marriage - so there is no fear of either of us hiding something from the other. But gathering all the documentation is SUCH a hassle - especially since she wants paper copies of the latest statements.

Yesterday we emailed back and forth about whether one of us can keep the house and after some quick math agreed we'd both be better off selling it and getting smaller places. He can probably afford to buy me out and keep the house, truth be told, but it's a big house for a person to live in full-time. If we were doing a true 50/50 shared custody it would make more sense for him to keep it. But it's not 50/50 - it'll be more like 35/65 when all is said and done. Plus, he hates doing yardwork and HATES our HOA (I do too), so he wants to move to a townhouse in a non-HOA neighborhood.

This morning we received the draft of the Parenting Plan from the mediator - it looks good and only need a few minor edits, which I added and forward on to my husband for his review and comment. But it pretty much looks like we're done with the parenting plan. That was the major hurdle for us to cross, so I'm happy about that being done, and so easily as well.


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## Some chick

ResignedWife said:


> I certainly don't intend to sound defeatist OR to hide from the world. I just think my social life will revolve around girls' nights out (I get invited to quite a few), book club, dinner club, my kids, and work. Despite being a wife and mother, I have a decent social life with other woman in my sphere. So I don't see myself hiding away because of a marriage coming to an end.
> 
> I have no shame over the marriage ending - we gave it a good 20 years, and we both acknowledge that we have a lot of REALLY fond memories (and inside family jokes galore) that we will continue to share with each other. But when I look at myself 8-10 years down the road, when the kids are out of college and/or on their own, I don't see myself being married again. And I'm not depressed at that idea - I think it's a perfectly reasonable outlook for anyone to have.
> 
> I'm not anti-relationship, I just think I would be content being single going forward. That could change, but right now, that's what I see (and it doesn't bother me).


Um sorry. Am I missing something? None of this sounds right. Why are you throwing away your vows again?


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## Betrayedone

........Because it's easy and considered socially acceptable........That's the story I was given when it happened to me.


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## browser

Some chick said:


> Um sorry. Am I missing something? None of this sounds right. Why are you throwing away your vows again?


Because they no longer want to be together.

It's as good a reason as any.


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## ResignedWife

Some chick said:


> Um sorry. Am I missing something? None of this sounds right. Why are you throwing away your vows again?


Because despite going to marriage counseling multiple times, and despite many attempts to bring the spark back, my husband has decided that he no longer wants to be married to me. He has made it plain for many years that he has been unhappy, and while I have not been happy either, I was content with the status quo of ending up as mere roommates versus having a deeper love that a married couple should have.

We're not throwing away our vows - this decision came after 18+ years of not being happy together. Had we thrown away the vows, it would have been done when the word "divorce" came up on our 2nd anniversary vacation. But we kept trying, and trying, and trying. That's not callously throwing anything away. That's finally admitting we're not good together the way a married couple should be.


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## ResignedWife

Betrayedone said:


> ........Because it's easy and considered socially acceptable........That's the story I was given when it happened to me.


Certainly not an easy decision - we've struggled for years and did our best to make it work. But it just wasn't going to, and I finally had to be the one to agree to let him go when he so clearly WANTED to go but was doing what he felt was the right thing by staying (but making us both unhappy as a result). He just needed my permission, which after 20 years, I finally gave him when I was ready to accept it.


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## ResignedWife

Last night's meeting with the mediator to discuss financial issues went well. She brought up a couple things we hadn't thought of, so he and I will do some research to get her the answers in the next week or two. 

When the subject of my debt came up, she kept mentioning to my husband that it could be considered family debt if any part of the incurred debt was for family vacations or other family expenses. I insisted that maybe only a third of the charges were family expenses, and that I wasn't going to have him be responsible for it since he also charges family expenses but he just happens to pay off his balances every month. 

We calculated out a "worst case" scenario on the home sale, and using those numbers, I outlined how I'd be able to pay off my debt, have a 20% down-payment on a new house AND still be able to put a substantial amount of money into an emergency savings account. I also said that I hadn't used my credit cards several months and am paying much more than the minimum payments on them in an effort to get them paid off. In a year, when we plan on begin officially separating, the debt will be reduced by at least a third, if not more, so I'm not too worried it. The mediator accepted that assertion, and she stopped hinting that he should pay for half of it.

And with that, other than the one big issue we need to investigate, the financial stuff is done. We also finalized the parenting plan and calculated the child support based on our salaries today. We added a clause that at the end of each year after we separate/divorce we need to show each other our year-end paystubs to verify whether or not child support should be adjusted due to salary increases/decreases over 5%.

All in all it went REALLY well and with no arguments or disagreements at all. Last night he mentioned the appraisal of our piano, to which the mediator asked if there was anything he wanted in the house that was comparable. He shrugged and said, "Not really," at which point she said, "Your car is worth more. You have more in retirement assets. You won't be responsible at all for her debt. Is that a fair exchange for the piano?" He said, "When you put it like that....sure." *lol* I did mention my engagement and wedding rings, and he without hesitation said that I should keep them. 

For our next meeting in April, she's going to write up a draft of the financial plan, and said that she'd only need another hour with us to review the plan together, make any edits, and print a final version of both the financial and parenting plans for an attorney to review on our behalf. At that point we'll be done and will only need to come back to her if we have significant life changes before we move forward on separation next year.

We do not need to file the paperwork when we separate, but can attach the plans to our request for divorce when we submit those forms to the court at the end of our one-year separation. Total cost for mediation, document creation and attorney review will end up being about $1500.


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## TheTruthHurts

Your marriage sounds like reading Moby ****. It's a long ordeal that is supposed to be great but in reality just drags along and by the end you really don't care too much but there's still 50 pages left.

Maybe after this you should try a few short stories. Even if they're not that great, they'll end quicker 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## browser

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your marriage sounds like reading Moby ****. It's a long ordeal that is supposed to be great but in reality just drags along and by the end you really don't care too much but there's still 50 pages left.
> 
> Maybe after this you should try a few short stories. Even if they're not that great, they'll end quicker


From what I read they're moving ahead with the divorce (because that's what he wants) and they've already had at least one mediation session. 

Divorce tends to be a rather slow process.


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## ResignedWife

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your marriage sounds like reading Moby ****. It's a long ordeal that is supposed to be great but in reality just drags along and by the end you really don't care too much but there's still 50 pages left.
> 
> Maybe after this you should try a few short stories. Even if they're not that great, they'll end quicker
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*lol* It has certainly FELT like Moby **** over the years. Doubt I'll be into short stories once we're done - at least, not until the kids are out of secondary school. I wouldn't feel comfortable writing any short stories while they are still under my roof. :wink2:


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## ResignedWife

This weekend the kids and I went away for the weekend to visit my family and it was a good trip (husband stayed home to take care of the pets so we didn't have to board them). I had lunch with a friend of mine (the one who was devastated when I told her what was happening but now that she knows a bit of what's gone on over the past 20 years she can't WAIT for the separation to begin). We talked briefly about my current state, as well as my potential future state, and I think she's even more excited than I am about my next chapter.

The contractor is finally on the schedule for mid-April to begin working on the house to take care of some long-needed repairs and painting. Of all the projects I'm most excited about the painting of the foyer and second floor.

Recently we found out that several homes in our neighborhood are going on the market in May (about 7 out of the 400 in our subdivision) - which has solidified our decision to put the house on the market in MARCH 2018 to beat the rush next spring. All of the homes I've been following on various real estate sites since January are under contract or have completed their sale process - including ones that needed a lot of renovation or updating. I'll be curious to see how long the homes in our neighborhood take to sell once listed this May - especially those that are the same size as ours.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

ResignedWife said:


> This weekend the kids and I went away for the weekend to visit my family and it was a good trip (husband stayed home to take care of the pets so we didn't have to board them). I had lunch with a friend of mine (the one who was devastated when I told her what was happening but now that she knows a bit of what's gone on over the past 20 years she can't WAIT for the separation to begin). We talked briefly about my current state, as well as my potential future state, and I think she's even more excited than I am about my next chapter.


Maybe she just needed some time to absorb the information? Now that she has had time to think about it and you gave her more background, she's decided to support you. That's good. Good friends are hard to come by; hopefully, you guys can build your friendship for mutual support.


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## ResignedWife

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Maybe she just needed some time to absorb the information? Now that she has had time to think about it and you gave her more background, she's decided to support you. That's good. Good friends are hard to come by; hopefully, you guys can build your friendship for mutual support.


I agree. She has always been a good friend - but I've always been very private about my very intimate affairs and don't share much more than surface level stuff with anyone (i.e., "Husband and I couldn't agree about which curtains to buy for the living room," or "Husband thinks I should have grounded Son for getting a C in Math, but I helped him study for his next test instead."). That's why it was such a shock to her when I initially told her.


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## ResignedWife

Cross your fingers, folks! My husband got a call from a recruiter about a position for which he applied on Friday. The recruiter is a specialized recruiter specifically for my husband's industry, so he/we are very hopeful that even if this particular job doesn't work out, he'll still remain high on their list for other potential opportunities.

That's one of the major hurdles to our impending separation - he REALLY wants to be in a new job so he can have peace of mind in that regard when it comes to 1) buying a new place with solid employment in place, 2) ability to comfortably pay the alloted child support, 3) so much change all at one time (which he's not good with).


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## ResignedWife

Update: nothing happened with the recruiter. Husband met with them and heard from them a few days later about one job, but never even got a follow-up call about an interview being set up with the company. But he did meet with another recruiter this past Monday and my husband said he was hopeful they would find something.

We meet with the mediator this Friday to finalize the documentation on the financial plan and received finalized printouts of both that and the parenting plan.

Contractor begins repair work on the house tomorrow.

Family life continues to be okay - Husband was out of town for work most of last week and the kids and I had a nice, easy time together and it was an appreciated small glimpse of what life could be like once Husband and I are separated.


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## aine

ResignedWife said:


> Update: nothing happened with the recruiter. Husband met with them and heard from them a few days later about one job, but never even got a follow-up call about an interview being set up with the company. But he did meet with another recruiter this past Monday and my husband said he was hopeful they would find something.
> 
> We meet with the mediator this Friday to finalize the documentation on the financial plan and received finalized printouts of both that and the parenting plan.
> 
> Contractor begins repair work on the house tomorrow.
> 
> Family life continues to be okay - Husband was out of town for work most of last week and the kids and I had a nice, easy time together and it was an appreciated small glimpse of what life could be like once Husband and I are separated.


Resignedwife, this all sounds so civilised and clinical almost. I wonder how are YOU actually. You have resigned yourself to this process. Have you already done your grieving? Have you already got past the hurt of rejection, of marriage failure, or your H basically abandoning you? I know these might sound like cruel questions but when you write it is so business like, so functionalist. Who is Resignedwife, what were your dreams, hopes. I guess I am trying to ask, HOW ARE YOU? Will you get IC after this?


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Have you told your kids yet? If not, are you worried about them finding out through the grapevine or accidentally overhearing conversation?


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## farsidejunky

aine said:


> Resignedwife, this all sounds so civilised and clinical almost. I wonder how are YOU actually. You have resigned yourself to this process. Have you already done your grieving? Have you already got past the hurt of rejection, of marriage failure, or your H basically abandoning you? I know these might sound like cruel questions but when you write it is so business like, so functionalist. Who is Resignedwife, what were your dreams, hopes. I guess I am trying to ask, HOW ARE YOU? Will you get IC after this?


I think after the dust has settled, her divorce is final, and after she has had a month or two to decompress, the grief will hit.


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## ResignedWife

aine said:


> Resignedwife, this all sounds so civilised and clinical almost. I wonder how are YOU actually. You have resigned yourself to this process. Have you already done your grieving? Have you already got past the hurt of rejection, of marriage failure, or your H basically abandoning you? I know these might sound like cruel questions but when you write it is so business like, so functionalist. Who is Resignedwife, what were your dreams, hopes. I guess I am trying to ask, HOW ARE YOU? Will you get IC after this?


Thanks for the questions. Yes, at this point it is very clinical - all our emotion was spent three years ago when I discovered his EA. Back then there were a LOT of tears and anguish (on both sides), but we decided to try counseling AGAIN to see if we could get back on track. But the problem is that by that point, I think we were both done - but unwilling or unable to say it. Him unable because of fear of admitting failure; me unwilling because I know I could not support myself and the kids as a single parent.

When we both made the decision this past January to separate, we both felt RELIEF. It was palpable for both of us. Since then, his depression has all but disappeared (other than dissatisfaction about his job) and his drinking has lessened as a result. 

I don't feel rejected (I did 3 years ago though, but got over it), I don't consider 20 years of marriage a failure, and I don't believe my husband is abandoning me. 

My dreams are to raise two healthy (physically, spiritually and mentally) kids to adulthood, continue to grow in my career, continue to hang out with my friends when my schedule allows, continue building my retirement savings, and take some really amazing vacations here and there (in places that the husband refused to go over the years).

I don't feel I need IC when this is all done. I'm not the type to sit and wring my hands in despair wondering WHY WHY WHY.


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## ResignedWife

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Have you told your kids yet? If not, are you worried about them finding out through the grapevine or accidentally overhearing conversation?


No, the kids do not know yet. The only time we talk about what's happening is when we are out by ourselves or over email. Never at home.

I'm not worried about the grapevine. The only people who know do not engage with my kids at all - either because they live in another state or because they do not have kids that would overhear THEIR conversation and then tell my kids.

The plan is still to tell the kids next January with a goal of putting the house on the market by late March/early April.


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## ResignedWife

farsidejunky said:


> I think after the dust has settled, her divorce is final, and after she has had a month or two to decompress, the grief will hit.


Truly, my grief was experienced three years ago when I discovered the EA my husband was having. That was a TOUGH TOUGH time for me. 

I'm pretty stoic by nature, but would sit in my office at work weeping on and off all day for several weeks after the discovery. 

I'd lay awake at night (with him next to me), wondering if staying and doing marriage counseling was the right thing to do.

I'd crunch numbers and lament the fact that my salary (even with child support added in) just wasn't at a level that allowed me the opportunity to even TRY to separate.

I'd come into the TV room to find him on his phone and think, "Is he texting someone?" Or he'd come home late from work and I'd think, "Was he with someone?" Or he'd take longer at the store than I thought it should take and think, "Is he sitting in his car talking to her on the phone somewhere?" 

It was truly a HORRIBLE time for me, and it took me at least a year to get past it - even with the counseling. That's when my grief was spent.

Now I only feel, as I said just now in a previous post, relief that we are separating, relief that I can actually afford (thanks to a promotion and large raise) to be a single parent, and excitement about knowing that once we're separated, I won't have to worry, or wonder, or doubt ANYthing because he won't be my problem at that point.


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## ResignedWife

Just got back from the final meeting with the mediator. Both plans are approved (but will not be signed until Husband and I actually separate). Just prior to official separation we'll meet with the mediator one more time to update our financials, and possibly recalculate child custody if our salaries have dramatically changed. We'll then sign and notarize our plans the same day we close on the house sale, signifying that the one-year separation period has officially started. 

She said that when the separation year is up we'll need to come back to her to get a signed form signifying that we went through mediation as part of our separation agreement. We'll then attach that form to the parenting and financial plans and submit them all to the court with our divorce paperwork.

And just like that we're 90% done with mediation. Grand total spent thus far: ~$1300. We'll pay a bit more next spring when we're ready to actually separate.

Now it's just the waiting game - finding a new job for him and taking our time getting the house and landscaping ready to list the house next spring.


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## ResignedWife

Ugh. Bad morning this morning. My husband and I differ in two distinct ways that have always been a source of arguing. This morning they both reared their heads.

I was talking about my job and the discussion moved into talking about his, and his unhappiness. After a brief rant, he said, "It doesn't matter - I'm quitting in 3 months anyway."

"With a job, though," I said.

"I don't care - I just know in three months I will no longer work there."

"But with a new job in place."

He shrugged and said, "Maybe not."

I said, "It doesn't work like that. If you truly want out of there, you need to step up your search and find a new job. THEN quit." (I did not mention at this moment in the discussion that 90% of his job search has been ME doing the searching and networking, not him). I then asked, "Have you followed up with any of the people you've spoken with thus far?" (I already knew the answer - he has not).

At this point he went to get in the shower and saw a glass I had put on the dresser from the night before. He snarled, "Don't forget to take your glass downstairs when you go - I shouldn't have to do everything around here." With that he got in the shower and we didn't speak another word to each other before I left the house for work.

And there are the two things. First, he can be MISERABLE about something (i.e., his job, our marriage) and he does nothing about it. He'd rather wallow in misery. I'm Type A when it comes this kind of stuff, he's Type B. Granted, when it comes to our marriage, I have stayed in it as well, but I found happiness where I could. But when it comes to employment, if I'm unhappy, I find something a new job or figure out a way to make my current employment get better. He was only going to spend a year with his current employer - but he's now been there 10 years (and miserable for 8-9 of those years). 

I've tried to hang back to let him be Type A of his own life. But he just isn't. It was only when I finally let my Type A go into action and told him we should end the marriage, that's when things started to move. I can't be Type A for his job hunt - I certainly can't email the recruiters and say, "What are you doing to find my husband a job?" A helicopter wife is even worse than a helicopter parent - and I'm neither.

The second thing was his throwaway comment about doing everything around the house. Now, I'll be the first to admit he does a lot, but that's because when it comes to the house he is a Type A personality. I'm much more Type B. After dinner he wants the dishes done right away, whereas I think it's okay to leave them there for an hour or two and just relax for a bit. If laundry is done, he wants it out of the dryer and folded while it's still warm, whereas I'm okay leaving it in the dryer (or the laundry basket) for a few hours and doing it later. It will always GET DONE, but on a different timeline. As a result, it can look like he does more - but it's only because he feels a need to get it done NOW, versus later. It's almost as though he thinks that if he doesn't do it, it'll never get done. But that's not true. I do them, but at a less rushed pace.

There have been times over the years that he has "tested" me and deliberately left things not done and guess what? They GOT DONE. 

So what is this post about? Who knows. I just needed to vent, really. This morning was the first time in a long while that we've sniped at each other. I know he griped about the glass out of defensiveness because he knows I'm right about his job hunt. 

Old Me would have gone in and apologized to him in order to make peace (I've been doing that for 20 years), but this morning I did not. He never apologizes for ANYthing, so why should I continue to apologize even when I know I did nothing wrong?


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## TheTruthHurts

Ugh. Soon to be over.


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## farsidejunky

RW:

You are divorcing. What he does or does not do about his job is not your problem.

As to the apologizing, try to do your best to be the bigger person. Not easy with someone like that, but you will build emotional resiliency in yourself while not stirring the pot in the delicate period of negotiation.


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## arbitrator

*I cannot help but think that you are doing the right thing and that you are handling the matter in an extremely mature manner!

So sorry to see you going through all of this! My heartfelt wishes go out to both you and the kids!*


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## ResignedWife

farsidejunky said:


> RW:
> 
> You are divorcing. What he does or does not do about his job is not your problem.
> 
> As to the apologizing, try to do your best to be the bigger person. Not easy with someone like that, but you will build emotional resiliency in yourself while not stirring the pot in the delicate period of negotiation.


But it WOULD be my problem if he chooses in three months to quit his job without having a new one because then I am the sole breadwinner - and we certainly cannot afford to live on just my salary alone (I make 30% less than he does). I'd much rather he wait and get laid off (if that's in the cards (he thinks it is)) because at least then he'll get severance pay and be eligible for unemployment, which will help soften the financial blow of being out of work. If he quits, he gets nothing. 

Although I suppose a "benefit" would be that we'd separate sooner because we'd have to sell the house because we can't afford the mortgage on my salary alone.

He sent me a [email protected] apology email saying he's sorry we aren't "on the same page" about his job hunt. But he did thank me for the help I've provided thus far. So that's something, I guess?


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## ResignedWife

So last night Husband acknowledged he was wrong in the argument we had yesterday morning. He agreed that he needed to take charge of his job hunt and that he would not quit until he either had a new job or was laid off. He emailed all the recruiters and network contacts I found for him to check in and see if they had heard of anything, and to provide a cleaner, updated resume to all of them.

I mentioned to him the possibility of looking in other cities - Chicago, Houston, NYC, Atlanta, Boston, etc. - since their job markets might be more robust than our local metro area. He said he was considering it but wanted to wait another month or two before expanding his search outside our area. I told him that if he ended up having to relocate for a job, we'd figure out a new plan for the separation timeline and child visitation, and not to let that concern him at all.


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## ResignedWife

**Long post ahead - sorry!**

Today I had a doozy of a phone call from my husband at work. He's fallen back into severe depression about his job, with very little hope. But in the midst of that discussion, he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to separate and that he wanted to try marriage counseling again.

I told him that since we weren't planning on separating until January, I would be willing to go to counseling, but only if he went to individual counseling for himself AND got on anti-depressants to help balance himself out. He agreed immediately to both. I then said it was up to him to find a counselor for us to see, and to find another one for his IC, and to go see his doctor to get the meds. He said he would.

I'm not sure how I feel - I suppose my initial thoughts are of the "Wait and see" variety. Wait and see if he finds a counselor (usually I'm the one that researches things and makes appointments). Wait and see if he'll actually go to IC. Wait and see if he not only gets the meds but TAKES them faithfully every day. Wait and see if his actions show that he wants us to become better with each other.

What I suspect is actually happening is that he is still deep in the throes of the lowest chasm of his midlife crisis, and that he's realizing what his post-separation future may look like if he doesn't make a change. To me, his post-separation life looks very lonely. He has no friends in the town where we live (in 10+ years we've lived here he's made NO EFFORT to make friends - no one that he can call and just say, "Wanna hang out and watch a game?"), no connections with anyone, and he has no hobbies to speak of. I've encouraged him MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times, "Hey, why don't you call Guy A and see if he wants to come over and watch the game?" or "Hey, why not call Guy B and see if he wants to go grab a beer with you." But he does nothing, makes no attempts.

And it's the same with the kids and me. "Hey, the kids and I want to go see 'This Movie' - want to come?" And he'll scrunch up his nose and say, "No, that's not the kind of movie I'd want to see." Or I'll say, "I recorded 'That TV Show' because I know you like This Actor - want to watch it together?" And he'll shake his head and say, "No, not really. You can watch it without me." "Hey, This Singer is coming to town for a concert - I know you love her and have all her CDs - wanna go?" "No, I don't like her enough to pay for tickets to a concert." After a few hundred times over the years, I've stopped asking. 

As such, he is very isolated and really only has me to talk to, and his interests have become very narrow: craft beer and sports. I don't drink beer, and I hate sports. I've gone to sporting events over the years because I know he likes them (in fact, we're traveling four hours this June to see his favorite baseball team play), and I've not frowned at all on his desire to go to beer festivals (although I'm not a fan of how inebriated he is when I pick him up at the end). 

On the other hand, I have people I can talk to at work, at church, at home; and I have weekly/monthly social events I attend, and I'm much more connected with the kids as well.

But I can't do "life" for him. If he wants a new job, he needs be proactive and do the work to find one - not me. If he wants friends - he needs to engage with people and build relationships - I can't do that for him. If he wants to have a good relationship with the kids - he needs to spend time with them and not just one hour between getting home from work and going to the gym. 

If he wants to fix the marriage - well, I'll be honest - I'm not sure if that can be fixed. 

Let's say that tonight I instantly lose the weight that bothers him. I'll never feel like I've lost enough to please him. Is 10 pounds enough? 20? Would that suddenly cause him to realize he loves me more than ever? Is he that shallow? What happens if I slowly gain the weight back? Will he suddenly go back to not wanting to be with me? 

What if I regain my sexual interest in him (bear in mind, I lost interest a few years ago when he announced he had no physical attraction for me and no longer wanted to have sex (this led to his starting an EA that almost turned physical before I discovered what was happening))? I'll always feel like he's just "settling" by being with me, because of what he has said in the past. I'll always feel like he is just going through the motions versus really WANTING to be intimate with me.

What if we are magically able to be vulnerable and open with each other starting tonight? There may be too much that was said in the past that can be forgiven, but not forgotten. Actions can be forgotten, but words cannot. They are pernicious and stick around for years and years. I can remember where we were standing, and what time of day it was, and the exact words he spoke when he said some pretty harsh words about me and our relationship.

Thoughts?


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## 3Xnocharm

Hm, kinda tough. 

So what makes him think that MC can fix this, when he has no physical attraction or desire to have sex with you? What you stated about him telling you that, then almost getting into a physical relationship with someone else, really bothers me. Not only because he may be prompted to cheat, but that its blatant that the lack of desire only pertains to YOU. He doesn't want to spend time with you, doesn't care to have a social life. What kind of life is that for YOU? I hope he does get on some meds and get some help, but even if he does, I hold little hope that suddenly he is going to have interest in and attraction to you. Can you live with him as a roommate only for the rest of your life? Can HE?


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## MovingForward

ResignedWife said:


> **Long post ahead - sorry!**
> 
> *I would be willing to go to counseling, but only if he went to individual counseling for himself AND got on anti-depressants to help balance himself out. *
> 
> You are a good person to give him a chance to work on himself and the marriage again, not many would.
> 
> *He has no friends in the town where we live (in 10+ years we've lived here he's made NO EFFORT to make friends - no one that he can call and just say, "Wanna hang out and watch a game?"), no connections with anyone, and he has no hobbies to speak of. I've encouraged him MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times, "Hey, why don't you call Guy A and see if he wants to come over and watch the game?" or "Hey, why not call Guy B and see if he wants to go grab a beer with you." But he does nothing, makes no attempts.
> 
> As such, he is very isolated and really only has me to talk to, and his interests have become very narrow
> * -
> 
> The above was me but the fear and shock of D helped me snap out of it, for me it was two fold it was partially lack of self esteem and confidence which had crept up over the years so did not feel like I had anything to really offer anyone and secondly I worked and wanted to be there for my family all the time but that also resulted in me probably smothering and looking needy and pathetic. My W constantly encouraged me to reach out to people and forced me to multiple social events but I just could not open up at the time, I m in a much better place in that regards have a couple of friends and started some new hobbies finally it started with one and I managed to branch out from there, one thing that has worked is I accepted any social invitation regardless of if i wanted to go or not and once I got out i actually really started to enjoy it again, was your husband social in the past?
> 
> I am still a little lonely and still have the urge to isolate myself occasionally but maybe try taking him to some of your social outlets and leaving him with some of the other husbands so he is forced to engage with people and then some follow up meetings after some smaller groups??? i am just throwing out ideas because I have been that lonely Isolated person and it is not nice and is hard to get past it but you obviously have to look after yourself first.
> 
> *But I can't do "life" for him.* - no you cannot at some point he has to take responsibility for himself
> 
> *If he wants to fix the marriage - well, I'll be honest - I'm not sure if that can be fixed.* - the fact you are willing to go and the fact he is willing (we think) to go then I would say it can as long as he works on his issues in IC which I hope he does even if you do still seperate, I would not wish loneliness or isolation on anyone.
> 
> *What if we are magically able to be vulnerable and open with each other starting tonight?* - I would be willing to do anything to have the opportunity to not be getting D and to have kept my family together and built a stronger relationship with my W hopefully if you want that is, he see's this as an opportunity to start again and makes it right so you both get happiness.
> 
> *There may be too much that was said in the past that can be forgiven, but not forgotten. * - That is something you have to decide for yourself, I have said some nasty things to people in the past and have said them while hurt to cause hurt which is an awful thing to do deflecting your pain onto someone else but I have done it and i regret it having never really meant the things i have said.


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## TheTruthHurts

Ok I totally disagree with your notion that words said have long term power to them. Totally untrue - you empower them. I say **** all the time and forget it. It has no long term meaning - I respond to the world around me and I live and I change. What I said last year? Meh if the circumstances have changed.

Other than that I think you have your head screwed on straight


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## ResignedWife

@3Xnocharm - we've lived as "roommates" for the past several years, so it wouldn't be any different. Before we talked in January about getting divorced, I had always thought I'd wait until the kids were 18+ years old and then ask him for a divorce. This way we wouldn't have to worry about a potential custody situation.

@MovingForward - thanks for the responses, especially about your own isolation and loneliness. Perhaps, I think, a lot of men go through this as they get older? Women seem to have besties from childhood, but men - not so much.

@TheTruthHurts - most things I can forget, but in this case, the words he said have effected the last several years of our marriage because circumstances (and his opinions) have not changed. And he and I both know it.


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## ResignedWife

I've started and deleted a new update several times over the past couple of days.

My husband had another emotional outburst earlier this week - talking about the futility of it all (looking for a new job), feeling like a failure about our marriage, and a few other things. 

After the kids went to bed, we had a two hour talk where I just let him get it all out of his system. He is VERY afraid about the financial future if he is laid off without severance. We'd have to sell the house immediately, and when I gently told him that we'd go ahead and separate at that time, I could see the look of fear in his eyes. He asked, "We wouldn't move together into a new house?" I said, "No, there's no reason to since we are planning to separate ANYway. We'd just move up the timeline." He was not happy to hear that, but I assured him he'd be okay because he would live quite comfortably on his half of the sale proceeds, which would equal more than a year's salary. But I reminded him that we would not be able to afford the mortgage on the current house on just my salary, even if we refinance back into a new 30 year mortgage. 

I also told him his depression was spiraling much deeper than is healthy, and I asked him to get into IC immediately, see his doctor to get different meds since the ones she gave him last time do not seem to work, and to lessen his beer drinking since the amount he drinks only makes his depression deeper rather than alleviating it. He agreed about all three. He saw his doctor this morning for new meds, and he has contacted at least one therapist this week (but wasn't able to make an appointment since she is not taking new patients at the moment). 

The next day I sent him 32 job listings that I found online, and that night he began applying. He is now willing to take ANY job - even if it pays 30% less than he's currently earning. He is that desperate to find a new job before getting laid off, so that he doesn't have to worry about whether or not he'll get severance. He believes he has at least 2 months before any layoffs occur because they have a major deadline in late June for a project, and they need all hands on deck for it. After that, who knows.

It has been a very stressful week. My husband is the kind of person who bottles up all his stress and fear and then just explodes and dumps it on me unexpectedly.


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## MovingForward

ResignedWife said:


> I've started and deleted a new update several times over the past couple of days.
> 
> My husband had another emotional outburst earlier this week - talking about the futility of it all (looking for a new job), feeling like a failure about our marriage, and a few other things.
> 
> After the kids went to bed, we had a two hour talk where I just let him get it all out of his system. He is VERY afraid about the financial future if he is laid off without severance. We'd have to sell the house immediately, and when I gently told him that we'd go ahead and separate at that time, I could see the look of fear in his eyes. He asked, "We wouldn't move together into a new house?" I said, "No, there's no reason to since we are planning to separate ANYway. We'd just move up the timeline." He was not happy to hear that, but I assured him he'd be okay because he would live quite comfortably on his half of the sale proceeds, which would equal more than a year's salary. But I reminded him that we would not be able to afford the mortgage on the current house on just my salary, even if we refinance back into a new 30 year mortgage.
> 
> I also told him his depression was spiraling much deeper than is healthy, and I asked him to get into IC immediately, see his doctor to get different meds since the ones she gave him last time do not seem to work, and to lessen his beer drinking since the amount he drinks only makes his depression deeper rather than alleviating it. He agreed about all three. He saw his doctor this morning for new meds, and he has contacted at least one therapist this week (but wasn't able to make an appointment since she is not taking new patients at the moment).
> 
> The next day I sent him 32 job listings that I found online, and that night he began applying. He is now willing to take ANY job - even if it pays 30% less than he's currently earning. He is that desperate to find a new job before getting laid off, so that he doesn't have to worry about whether or not he'll get severance. He believes he has at least 2 months before any layoffs occur because they have a major deadline in late June for a project, and they need all hands on deck for it. After that, who knows.
> 
> It has been a very stressful week. My husband is the kind of person who bottles up all his stress and fear and then just explodes and dumps it on me unexpectedly.


I hope you both find happiness in all this.


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## 3Xnocharm

I think he just had a come to Jesus moment about the reality of actually being on his own. That's a good thing though, because it motivated him into action.


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## ResignedWife

3Xnocharm said:


> I think he just had a come to Jesus moment about the reality of actually being on his own. That's a good thing though, because it motivated him into action.


I absolutely 100% agree with you.


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## ResignedWife

Folks, I don't know if I'm coming or going.

Last night we had another "come to Jesus" conversation - about his job, about our marriage. Very productive because this time instead of holding back and just letting him talk, I took control on the conversation let loose about everything that has made me unhappy in our marriage.

And I mean EVERYTHING. There's a lot of little things that I didn't post about on here, but have taken a toll on our marriage. Last night I finally let it all out. I told him that I didn't want to dump on him while he was already feeling down about his job situation (the company is definitely working to fire him rather than just lay him off so they can avoid giving him severance pay), but that I had some things I needed to say so that all the cards could be on the table.

Among many other things, I told him that I thought the only reason he wanted to stay together was because he was comfortable with me and afraid of what life would be like without me there to handle stuff. He agreed and said that was definitely part of it, but that he was also sad that he didn't love me enough to appreciate me and the things I have done during our marriage, and that he can see now that I bring a lot of positive things to his life that he doesn't want to lose. 

In the end, we decided to keep trying to work on our marriage. But this time, instead of just paying lip service to "making it better" - we'd both actively try to make it better. I gave him several "must haves" and that if I didn't get those things from him, we'd be back to talking about separation/divorce. I also agreed to his "must haves" although mine don't make/break a marriage, per se.

I don't know if we'll be successful because there is so much more history than what I've shared here, but we're going to try nonetheless.


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## MovingForward

ResignedWife said:


> F
> In the end, we decided to keep trying to work on our marriage. But this time, instead of just paying lip service to "making it better" - we'd both actively try to make it better. I gave him several "must haves" and that if I didn't get those things from him, we'd be back to talking about separation/divorce. I also agreed to his "must haves" although mine don't make/break a marriage, per se.


Good for you, if you both want it and both actively work at it then you should be successful and if he does not you can walk away head held high knowing it was not meant to be and you can move on and find happiness again.


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## wilson

ResignedWife said:


> In the end, we decided to keep trying to work on our marriage. But this time, instead of just paying lip service to "making it better" - we'd both actively try to make it better. I gave him several "must haves" and that if I didn't get those things from him, we'd be back to talking about separation/divorce. I also agreed to his "must haves" although mine don't make/break a marriage, per se.


I'm glad you're trying to work it out, but I think you may need to soften your stance. I get the sense you're a type-A person who likes things well planned out, while your H is the complete opposite. He prefers to float through life, deciding which way to go as he needs. It is very unlikely he will be able to live up to your standards--he's just not wired to think that way. Even if he tries really, really hard, he won't be able to do it very well. 

I'm not sure what your must-haves are, but if they are essentially "become more of a type-A person", then it's probably not going to happen. Think about the type of person he is and what type of changes that type of person is capable of. I'm sure the changes you want are reasonable, but is he the kind of person who is capable of making those kinds of changes?


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## TheTruthHurts

wilson said:


> I'm glad you're trying to work it out, but I think you may need to soften your stance. I get the sense you're a type-A person who likes things well planned out, while your H is the complete opposite. He prefers to float through life, deciding which way to go as he needs. It is very unlikely he will be able to live up to your standards--he's just not wired to think that way. Even if he tries really, really hard, he won't be able to do it very well.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what your must-haves are, but if they are essentially "become more of a type-A person", then it's probably not going to happen. Think about the type of person he is and what type of changes that type of person is capable of. I'm sure the changes you want are reasonable, but is he the kind of person who is capable of making those kinds of changes?




Disagree. She's been almost out the door for a while so I see this as quite a concession on her part. Honestly I think she has to be absolutely firm; if he can't change under duress he'll certainly backslide at the first chance 


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## ResignedWife

wilson said:


> I'm glad you're trying to work it out, but I think you may need to soften your stance. I get the sense you're a type-A person who likes things well planned out, while your H is the complete opposite. He prefers to float through life, deciding which way to go as he needs. It is very unlikely he will be able to live up to your standards--he's just not wired to think that way. Even if he tries really, really hard, he won't be able to do it very well.
> 
> I'm not sure what your must-haves are, but if they are essentially "become more of a type-A person", then it's probably not going to happen. Think about the type of person he is and what type of changes that type of person is capable of. I'm sure the changes you want are reasonable, but is he the kind of person who is capable of making those kinds of changes?


My three must haves are: 1) stay on anti-depression meds, 2) seek individual counseling for assistance on personal issues with which I cannot help him, 3) drink less. Those seem pretty easy regardless of whether someone is a Type A or a Type B.


We had a good weekend. We didn't necessary do anything special even though it was Mom's Day weekend, but he did participate in family activities in which he normally does't participate. He drank one beer yesterday while watching a baseball game, and kept it to just that one. That was the only one he had the whole weekend. And as much as he hates watching non-sports TV, he sat and watched a movie with my daughter and me on Friday night, and again last night. 

As for me, lately I've made a point of going to bed the same time he goes (this has always been an issue for us - I'm a night owl that stays up until 1 a.m. whereas he goes to bed at 10 p.m. every night), and have helped around the house more than I already do (and made sure it was noticed so that he knows he doesn't do "everything around the house" as he has accused me in the past).

The result? I noticed that he was KINDER to me this weekend, and seemed to be in a relatively positive mood.


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## TheTruthHurts

ResignedWife said:


> My three must haves are: 1) stay on anti-depression meds, 2) seek individual counseling for assistance on personal issues with which I cannot help him, 3) drink less. Those seem pretty easy regardless of whether someone is a Type A or a Type B.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We had a good weekend. We didn't necessary do anything special even though it was Mom's Day weekend, but he did participate in family activities in which he normally does't participate. He drank one beer yesterday while watching a baseball game, and kept it to just that one. That was the only one he had the whole weekend. And as much as he hates watching non-sports TV, he sat and watched a movie with my daughter and me on Friday night, and again last night.
> 
> 
> 
> As for me, lately I've made a point of going to bed the same time he goes (this has always been an issue for us - I'm a night owl that stays up until 1 a.m. whereas he goes to bed at 10 p.m. every night), and have helped around the house more than I already do (and made sure it was noticed so that he knows he doesn't do "everything around the house" as he has accused me in the past).
> 
> 
> 
> The result? I noticed that he was KINDER to me this weekend, and seemed to be in a relatively positive mood.




Hmmmmm. Time will tell


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## ResignedWife

TheTruthHurts said:


> Hmmmmm. Time will tell


Agree. It has only been five days - there's a long way to go! :wink2:


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## ResignedWife

Another few days have past, and things continue to go well. We're talking and sharing more, and being open about stuff. A complete turnaround from our prior communication which was always "all business." We've both been attempting to be more physically affectionate with each other - something we haven't done in a long time because we've been "all business." He has been more vocal about expressing appreciation for what I do for him, the family and the household, and I've continued to be encouraging of him as well as helping around the house more.

His job hunt is ongoing and his misery at work is at an all-time high, but he did finally get a request for a phone interview this week, which is a positive sign. We're taking steps to reduce our monthly expenses just in case he has to take a lower salary - so far so good on that front. 

Since May 10 he has avoided alcohol completely other than the one beer he had over the weekend while watching a baseball game. This week he started drinking a cup of coffee after dinner instead of beer. His general outlook has been improved as a result.

I also think the anti-depression meds are helping - his temperament has been much more leveled out and he seems better able to handle the stress at work. He is still having sleep issues, but I know once he gets a new job that will resolve itself. In the meantime, he manages it by going downstairs and turning on the news, and once he gets tired again he comes back upstairs and falls asleep in bed.

So that's my update - things continue to go well.


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## ResignedWife

Weekly update - my husband's phone interview went well and he is optimistic. They spoke to him for almost 45 minutes, which I felt was a strong positive because if they felt he wasn't a good candidate, they'd have ended the call much sooner rather than drag it on. They told him they'd contact their top two phone candidates next week to set up in-person interviews. We're hoping he gets a call as it seems like a good opportunity based on the phone interview.

His moods continue to be more regulated thanks to the lack of alcohol and continuation of his meds. Since May 10 he has only had 3 beers in total (yes, I'm tracking), and he sold a beer festival ticket he had because he didn't want to go anymore. He has continued to be much more understanding and kind to the kids and me, as well as physically affectionate. Basically, our household has been a pleasure to be in over the past couple weeks because of the open communication and ability to "vent" the small stuff rather than let them build up and explode in a heap of drama and misery.

In other news, I've opted to begin looking for a new job myself, and applied for a GREAT opportunity. I have a friend who is good friends with one of the executives there, and he wrote a glowing recommendation on my behalf when I applied a few days ago, so I'm hopeful that I'll get a call for an interview in the next week or two. I love my current job, but some recent changes among leadership has me worried that in 1-2 years I may be deemed "unnecessary," and I'd rather leave while I'm on top versus being asked to leave. My company is big enough that I could probably transfer to another area, but I'm not sure I want to do that at this point.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

@ResignedWife

Glad to hear there are positive things going on! Is your husband an alcoholic?


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## ResignedWife

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> @ResignedWife
> 
> Glad to hear there are positive things going on! Is your husband an alcoholic?


No, he isn't not an alcoholic, but he does drink when he is depressed, and it effects his personality (he becomes sarcastic, rude, and disengaged). In our conversation a couple weeks ago I told him I thought he was a problem drinker in that he goes to booze to self-soothe his depression, but drinks just enough that his depression gets even worse. He agreed and said he'd cut back.


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## turnera

Have you guys read His Needs Her Needs? Now would be a good time.


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## ResignedWife

turnera said:


> Have you guys read His Needs Her Needs? Now would be a good time.


No, he's not a reader so he wouldn't read it, and I'm not a fan of self-help books in general as there is no "one size fits all" to any given situation. Also, I'm not a fan of any book that will make either spouse feel bad for not being in the best physical shape at all times. Not everyone can be a size 8 or less (women) or a 28/30 waist (men).

As I have told my husband, I may lose weight or I might not, but his love for me should not BE BASED on whether or not I lose weight because then it's an unattainable standard for me and even if I reach size 8, I'll still feel like it's not enough FOR HIM. And NO ONE should be put in that position EVER.


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## turnera

ResignedWife said:


> No, he's not a reader so he wouldn't read it, and I'm not a fan of self-help books in general as there is no "one size fits all" to any given situation. Also, I'm not a fan of any book that will make either spouse feel bad for not being in the best physical shape at all times.


First, huh? What makes you think it talks about people's weight?

Second, I read it out loud to my H, who also was not a reader. 

Third, you would be surprised how much bearing this book has on your marriage. It is based on basic human psychology and would provide you a lot of a-ha moments, should you read it.

For example, it talks about men's and women's typical top needs in a marriage and, as much as you want to think it won't apply to you, in my 15+ years on forums, I've only run across a couple of people who fell outside this norm:
Men's Needs
1. Sexual Fulfilment 
2. Recreational Companionship 
3. An Attractive Spouse 
4. Domestic Support 
5. Admiration

Women's Needs
1. Affection 
2. Conversation 
3. Honesty and Openness 
4. Financial Commitment 
5. Family Commitment


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## ResignedWife

turnera said:


> First, huh? What makes you think it talks about people's weight?
> 
> ...
> 
> Men's Needs
> 1. Sexual Fulfilment
> 2. Recreational Companionship
> 3. An Attractive Spouse
> 4. Domestic Support
> 5. Admiration


Umm...See #3 under men's needs? Today's culture (and I'm sure this book) implies "attractive" mainly means thin, or at least "not overweight." And should a man (or woman) feel his/her spouse is not attractive due to weight, it could lead to a lack of #1. Thus putting the pressure, once again, on the not-thin spouse to lose weight to "keep" the love of the other spouse.


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## turnera

And that is why you sit down together and come to an AGREEMENT on which of his needs you can and will meet, and vice versa. It's not a manifesto or something. 

The book explains why learning what your spouse's needs are is so important because it opens the communication floodgates and lets BOTH of you come to a place of agreement that is mutually beneficial.

And the beauty is that, when your spouse is aware of your needs and is actively seeking to make you happy, the specific needs' importance tends to fade.


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## RoseAglow

The book does not say that an overweight wife will lose her husband's love. That is a huge assumption and it is not true.

The books says that in order to for your spouse to be in love with you, you have to meet some of their most important emotional needs (ENs) and you have to avoid doing things that drain their love. No one can meet every single one of the ENs- you focus on what you CAN meet and usually then, as Turnera states, the order of the importance of any given EN changes. 

I have heard Dr Harley (the author) talk about counseling couples where the H or the W told him that they were never attracted to their spouse. In particular he spoken about a H losing attraction to the W due to her weight gain. Once the wife was able to meet the other ENs, such as Admiration and Recreational Companionship, things improved. Once the H was meeting the W's ENs, sex improved. Once the wife was meeting Admiration, RC, and sex, the husband was back in love. He once again found his W attractive. He refers to this as making 'deposits' in the 'love bank'- the 'income' can come from several streams.

If weight is an issue for you, and you'd like your H to be more in love with you, then would be an important book. You can figure out how to make that happen. Unless your H's need for physical attractiveness is sky high, his feelings for you are not dependent on your weight.

However, honestly, if you were to talk to Dr H, he would tell you to not try very hard. He might ask you to think about things that you admire about your H and to tell them to your H often, to meet the EN of Admiration. He might suggest that you figure out what your H does find attractive and highlight that. Your H found you attractive enough to marry you and it was not all weight-related. He might also love your eyes, your hair, he might love it when you smile at him. Maybe do some small things to highlight whatever it is other than weight. Stuff like that won't hurt, but it not even close to being the whole story. 

But overall, he puts much more responsibility on the men. In reality, your H is not about to walk away. Your H had big words about it, but no action. You are the one who is more likely to walk away. You are just biding your time. If you H doesn't change, my money is on you leaving in a few years.

So Harley would put the onus on your H to get his **** together and to re-attract YOU. Once he met your ENs and stopped love busting you, you would be more wiling and able to do things like give him admiration, and want to spend time with him, maybe provide sex once he stopped making you feel badly about your weight. 


The book is on CD if you think your H would listen to it. My H wouldn't read it but he did listen to it. 




ResignedWife said:


> Umm...See #3 under men's needs? Today's culture (and I'm sure this book) implies "attractive" mainly means thin, or at least "not overweight." And should a man (or woman) feel his/her spouse is not attractive due to weight, it could lead to a lack of #1. Thus putting the pressure, once again, on the not-thin spouse to lose weight to "keep" the love of the other spouse.


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## TheTruthHurts

@ResignedWife I proposed to my w when she was her max weight - I think even pregnant with twins years later she weighed about the same

Don't assume that your view of attractiveness is the same as your H. We all tend to be self critical and lose sight of our positive qualities

In my case, I read the book and discussed it and did ask my w to improve her appearance. It was fine but not actually attractive from a male / female perspective. She works and is a mom but I also wanted a woman and wife. I pointed out that I see women dressed nicely, wearing makeup, etc all day at work and I would prefer to see my own w that way - I didn't want to look at other women - I'd rather ogle my w a bit. So it was simply asking her to take some time to bring back a little care and show me that I'm worth trying to attract - I'm not just a sure thing. At the same time I work on my appearance as well.

Weight is irrelevant unless it's unhealthy or sloppy (as in not caring about appearance). There are nice clothes for people of all shapes and sizes.



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## turnera

So true. My H still wants me all the time, even though I'm 60-80 pounds overweight. What he DOESN'T like is for me to wear sweats or not fix my hair; he's always commenting on women and how they dress. So I know that's his 'weight.' 

My best friend has been 250-300 since she was 22. She met her husband around age 35. He seems fine with it.

It sounds like the real person with the weight hangup (or shame, or fear of abandonment, or whatever) is you. it's surely mine; I think about it every.single.day. Yet I don't give up the habits that keep me at this weight.

Have you two really sat down and discussed this?

btw (here's that push again, lol), the questionnaires that go along with HNHN are made precisely BECAUSE they allow and encourage the two of you to sit down and work through how you're really feeling about each other.


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## ResignedWife

TheTruthHurts said:


> @ResignedWife I proposed to my w when she was her max weight - I think even pregnant with twins years later she weighed about the same
> 
> Don't assume that your view of attractiveness is the same as your H. We all tend to be self critical and lose sight of our positive qualities
> 
> ...
> 
> Weight is irrelevant unless it's unhealthy or sloppy (as in not caring about appearance). There are nice clothes for people of all shapes and sizes.


Weight is relevant when your husband has previously said on more than a few occasions that he is not attracted to you anymore because you are no longer a size 8.


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## turnera

What are his 5 top needs?


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## oldshirt

As in all things, it's a matter of degrees and context. 

If you are 20lbs overweight like every other middle aged person on the planet then yes, I agree with you, who needs the extra aggravation and guilt of reading that you should eat more vegetables and exercise more. Blah blah blah, how many times have we all heard that. 

And if you are a size 9 then your H is just *****'n and looking for something more to ***** about. 

But if you are actually obese (your doctor has said you need to lose weight) and you have gained 100 lbs since the day he proposed, then not wanting to the recommendation of attractiveness/weight is like not wanting to hear that you should change the oil in your car if you want your car to run reliably for a long time. 

-it just IS. 

There are certain things that are just fundamental truths in the world whether we want to hear them or do them or not. 

If you are 20 lbs overweight, then I'd bet the farm that your weight has no bearing on your relationship issues at all and you could live on rice cakes and spend several hours a day at the gym and it would have no positive impact (it would probably have negative impact in fact) 

But if you are 100 lbs overweight, then there is a list 2 miles long on why regaining your physical health and vitality should be your top priority and his attraction for you is only a drop in the bucket.


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## oldshirt

ResignedWife said:


> Weight is relevant when your husband has previously said on more than a few occasions that he is not attracted to you anymore because you are no longer a size 8.


Again, degrees and context. 

I proposed to my wife 22 years and about 15 lbs ago when I had maybe a 4-pack (I've never had a 6 pack). 

I know she doesn't necessarily dig the extra "skin" that I have around the middle, but if it were something that would make or break whether she loved me or ever wanted to have sex with me again or not, that would kind of be on her for being a shallow beeeeooootch and if she were to exit the relationship because of it, that would reflect on her character and values and mores. 

However on the other hand, if I had let myself go and lived on the couch with beer and chips and beer and Snickers bars and had put on 100lbs, no one could blame her for losing attraction and desire and that would be on me for allowing myself to get to that state. 

She accepted my proposal and wanted to be with me at 170 lbs and a 4-pack. She would not have accepted a proposal from some dude that was 100 lbs overweight in the first place, so why would she want to be married to one now?

I'm not getting on you or trying to rub any salt in your wounds. My point here is not that you need to lose weight. For all I know you may be 1998 Miss American and can still cause car wrecks while walking down the sidewalk. My point is that depending on the degree and context, it may be a legitimate factor and sticking one's head in the ground because they do not want to deal with that factor does not make it any less of a factor. 

Fitness and appearance are things that we do have some control over. Everyone can be healthy and vigorous and everyone can be hygienic, well groomed, stylishly dressed and look good. 

There is a difference between being good looking and looking good. Not everyone can be a runway model or be on the cover of a fashion magazine. But everyone can be fit and healthy and look good.


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## TheTruthHurts

ResignedWife said:


> Weight is relevant when your husband has previously said on more than a few occasions that he is not attracted to you anymore because you are no longer a size 8.




Sounds like he's looking for a way out or is just very shallow. Sorry to hear that 


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## RoseAglow

I remember you saying this earlier in your thread. It was my impression from your thread that your husband has basically "love busted" you, (e.g. said/did things that drained your love for him) for years, to the point where you were just biding your time until your last child was 18, and then you planned to move on. Your H just upped the timeline with his request, but even then, you have been good with the idea and were looking ahead to a new life. I would guess that you have been emotionally divorcing yourself from him due to his hurtful behaviors for years. You still look out for his best interests, but your walls are up. 

I hope that things have continued to go well. As I said earlier, I think HNHN would be valuable to your H, because you are actually the one most likely to leave and it might help him figure out how to stop and repair the damage.

But regardless, I hope that things have continued to improve. Hopefully you've all had a great weekend (maybe a Holiday weekend, depending on where you are in the world.)



ResignedWife said:


> Weight is relevant when your husband has previously said on more than a few occasions that he is not attracted to you anymore because you are no longer a size 8.


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## ResignedWife

@RoseAglow - yes, for a long time I was just biding my time, knowing a divorce would happen eventually. But I'm willing to try again if that's what he truly wants - time will tell. Will I ever feel passionate love for him again (not just sexual passion, but LIFE passion) - I don't know. But I'm willing to try and get that back.

And yes, things continue to go well. We had a good holiday weekend and did a lot of stuff together as a family, which is always a positive in my book.


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## aine

ResignedWife said:


> @RoseAglow - yes, for a long time I was just biding my time, knowing a divorce would happen eventually. But I'm willing to try again if that's what he truly wants - time will tell. Will I ever feel passionate love for him again (not just sexual passion, but LIFE passion) - I don't know. But I'm willing to try and get that back.
> 
> And yes, things continue to go well. We had a good holiday weekend and did a lot of stuff together as a family, which is always a positive in my book.


I admire your willingness to try again, I really hope that this works for you.

However, are you really prepared to live with a man who has basically said he doesn't want you anymore, has relied on your good graces to keep things together for years, and seems to only want to keep you because he is too scared to be on his own? You know you are worth so much more than that, right?


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## ResignedWife

aine said:


> I admire your willingness to try again, I really hope that this works for you.
> 
> However, are you really prepared to live with a man who has basically said he doesn't want you anymore, has relied on your good graces to keep things together for years, and seems to only want to keep you because he is too scared to be on his own? You know you are worth so much more than that, right?


I do know that I'm worth more than he's giving me credit for - absolutely. As I told him a couple weeks ago - I KNOW that he would rather stay with me and be a little unhappy than face being alone - completely alone (other than the kids every couple weekends) - if we separate. He admitted he feels comfortable with me (after all, we've been together 23+ years between dating, engagement and marriage) and is not sure he WANTS to "start over," which he'd have to do if we separate. As I've said before - he does not like change.

Having said that, yes, I'm prepared to continue to live with him and see if we can rectify our relationship.


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## ResignedWife

It has been a couple weeks - thought I'd give another update.

Our communication has been very good lately - we make a point of finding time to talk and connect (even to the point where a couple nights ago we were up in our room talking for about an hour after we got home from work, and our son hollered up the stairs, "Hey, when are gonna come downstairs and make dinner?").

He had a phone interview for a new job that went well, but they never called him in for an in-person interview, so he's back on the hunt. Work has been very, very busy for him - but he's handling it and avoiding conflict as able. As for me, on a whim I applied for a position I saw online when looking for jobs for HIM, and just had the phone interview this week. It went VERY well and the talent manager made it clear that I'd be called in for in-person interviews sometime in the next few weeks. It would represent a large increase in pay, which takes the pressure off my husband in his job hunt.

He is still mostly drinking less although we went to a baseball game this past weekend and he drank several beers - but I knew it wasn't out of being depressed so much as being out in the sunshine, watching baseball (and having his team win to boot). It was a fun, fun family day for all of us (to the point where when we got home late that night my son, after putting on his pjs, came into the master bedroom, hugged me and said, "I had a REALLY good time today," before wishing us goodnight and heading to bed.

He is still struggling with sleep, but got a new medication last week and it seems to be working. Two nights ago he did wake up in the middle of the night but was able to immediately go back to sleep. And last night he didn't wake up at all. He is also still faithfully taking his anti-depressants, which are definitely continuing to help there.

All in all, things are going very, very well.


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## aine

Really glad to hear this, I hope things keep going onward and upwards for you and the family.


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## Wife5362

That is a good start. I just worry that you are just postponing the inevitable due to his realuzation and fear of all the changes a divorce would bring. Are thetwo of you going to be really married? Have intimacy? Or are you still settling for his not being attracted to you? If so, that is not really being married.


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## ResignedWife

Wife5362 said:


> That is a good start. I just worry that you are just postponing the inevitable due to his realuzation and fear of all the changes a divorce would bring. Are thetwo of you going to be really married? Have intimacy? Or are you still settling for his not being attracted to you? If so, that is not really being married.


I won't go into details on our "intimacy" since I consider that to be private, but yes, we are taking steps to be more intimate with each other going forward.


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## ResignedWife

I also forgot to add that he has made an attempt to build friendships as well. He has gone out after work a couple times with a co-worker and found they have a lot in common. The co-worker is new to our area and new to the company. The plan is in the making for the four of us (them and the wives) to get together for dinner sometime soon. That's another plus that has occurred over the past few weeks.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

It sounds like positive changes have been made. I'm glad to hear this! You know what they say. . . You must be willing to lose a marriage, to save it. 

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## ResignedWife

So yesterday was the first time I had to call him out on beer consumption. Yes, I know it was father's day, but I also know he had at least 3 beers during the afternoon before I asked, "how many is that?" as he brought out fourth one after dinner.

"Uh...I don't know," he said. "My last one?"

"Yes. Yes it is."

I'll admit that when he told me a few weeks ago that I could call him out when I felt he'd had enough beer, I didn't think he'd really accept me doing it. But he did - no more beer the rest of the day/night AND no attitude when I brought it up. He also managed to stay awake until about 10:45 p.m. before heading to bed (normally when he has that amount of beer he's asleep by 9 p.m.).


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## ResignedWife

Another update - my husband was laid off on Friday. They chose to eliminate his position entirely. We noticed they almost immediately listed a new position online - with a new title - that basically is the same as my husband's, but looking for one subset of skills in particular that my husband did not have. It's a shame that rather than send him to training to get those skills, they opted to let him go.

Fortunately, he got severance pay and all his unused vacation time. Unfortunately, they gave him half the severance pay we feel he deserved given his length of service. But it's better than no severance at all. He is taking the first few days off to relax and do nothing with regard to a job hunt. We had to order a cell phone for him since his old phone belonged to the company. Once that arrives this week he'll update his resume with the new cell number and begin making as many appointments with recruiters as he can.

I had a sit down with the kids and explained the ramifications of their dad being out of work - specifically that extracurricular spending is being eliminated as much as possible, and that if their dad cannot find a new job in the next 3-4 months then we'll have to make some additional cuts, with an eye on drastic cuts near the end of the year if he's still unemployed (listing the house on the market to downsize and pocket the remaining profits). They took the news well - they asked whether they'd stay in the same schools (I said yes). The idea of moving into a smaller place didn't seem to faze them, even though our current house is the only one they remember since we moved in when they were young toddlers.

My husband seems okay emotionally. I think he's relieved to finally be out of there, even if it wasn't on his own terms.


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## MovingForward

ResignedWife said:


> Another update - my husband was laid off on Friday. They chose to eliminate his position entirely. We noticed they almost immediately listed a new position online - with a new title - that basically is the same as my husband's, but looking for one subset of skills in particular that my husband did not have. It's a shame that rather than send him to training to get those skills, they opted to let him go.
> 
> Fortunately, he got severance pay and all his unused vacation time. Unfortunately, they gave him half the severance pay we feel he deserved given his length of service. But it's better than no severance at all. He is taking the first few days off to relax and do nothing with regard to a job hunt. We had to order a cell phone for him since his old phone belonged to the company. Once that arrives this week he'll update his resume with the new cell number and begin making as many appointments with recruiters as he can.
> 
> I had a sit down with the kids and explained the ramifications of their dad being out of work - specifically that extracurricular spending is being eliminated as much as possible, and that if their dad cannot find a new job in the next 3-4 months then we'll have to make some additional cuts, with an eye on drastic cuts near the end of the year if he's still unemployed (listing the house on the market to downsize and pocket the remaining profits). They took the news well - they asked whether they'd stay in the same schools (I said yes). The idea of moving into a smaller place didn't seem to faze them, even though our current house is the only one they remember since we moved in when they were young toddlers.
> 
> My husband seems okay emotionally. I think he's relieved to finally be out of there, even if it wasn't on his own terms.


Good Luck to you both, glad it sounds like your personal life has gotten much better and hopefully your husbands professional life will also shortly.


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## ResignedWife

Update:

I got a call back for an interview with the company I spoke with a few weeks ago. It looks very promising.

He has continued to apply for jobs, with no call backs at all. While he is sleeping a bit better since the job loss (and MANY former co-workers have contacted him to say that they feel the company made a big mistake letting him go, which has been good for his ego), his drinking has upticked from his initial near-abstinence and I plan with speaking to him about it again. I know that being home all day makes it "easy" to have a beer or three during the day, but it also makes him sleepy and in no mood to job hunt. 

I'm basically going to tell him that the one thing I will not tolerate is an unemployed husband sitting at home drinking beer all day while I'm working hard to support and save the family. He's had a two week vacation from his awful job - now is the time to get moving on finding a new job.


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## Satya

I'd get rid of all the beer in the house or when he consumes the last, tell him that you feel there needs to be no beer in the house until further notice.

The sooner you crack down, the better.


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## happy as a clam

Satya said:


> I'd get rid of all the beer in the house or when he consumes the last, tell him that you feel there needs to be no beer in the house until further notice.
> 
> The sooner you crack down, the better.


Agree completely. I'm not opposed to alcohol, but it's a slippery slope for him and he doesn't handle it well. Do you really want to be a Beer Cop?

Best to just avoid altogether. Maybe with all his free time he can go to some AA or SMART Recovery meetings while continuing to job hunt. He might learn his drinking is more of a problem than he is willing to admit.


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## TheTruthHurts

Satya said:


> I'd get rid of all the beer in the house or when he consumes the last, tell him that you feel there needs to be no beer in the house until further notice.
> 
> 
> 
> The sooner you crack down, the better.




Terrible idea. She's not his mother and should not try to assume that role. Discussions are sufficient. If that doesn't work then I'm sure she will make the right decision for herself. He has to make his decisions


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ResignedWife

Satya said:


> I'd get rid of all the beer in the house or when he consumes the last, tell him that you feel there needs to be no beer in the house until further notice.
> 
> The sooner you crack down, the better.


I'm not going to get rid of the beer - he's a grown man and I'm not his mom. But I do think that reminding him of my simple request, "Drink less, please" and reiterating the fact that I think he may be a problem drinker (which I told him many weeks ago) is good for now.

And if the request cannot be met with success in the long term, then there is an issue and I will tell him to seek help ASAP or else the marriage is done. Truly, drinking less is a "must have" for me, and I'll stand by that 100%. But I'm willing to let him spend some time figuring out a way to sort that out (with gentle reminders when needed) rather than jumping straight to "I got rid of all your beer, you must go to AA and never drink again or else."


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## ResignedWife

TheTruthHurts said:


> Terrible idea. She's not his mother and should not try to assume that role. Discussions are sufficient. If that doesn't work then I'm sure she will make the right decision for herself. He has to make his decisions
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We cross-posted but I agree. =)


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## turnera

I would suggest that he spend half his time applying for jobs and half his time volunteering somewhere. Helps his ego, leaves no time for beer, and looks good on his resume.


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## Satya

Not suggesting you be his mom, but I can see how my post may have seemed that way. We each handle things in our own way. 

As for it being a terrible idea... It's an idea, no more, no less.


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## ResignedWife

So this weekend I just watched and observed my husband's drinking patterns - from Friday to Sunday he drank at least 13 beers. This morning I finally expressed my concern. I reminded him that his drinking less was a "must have" for me to consider working to repair our relationship. I told him I didn't want to be put in a position where I had to police his intake and that he should take responsibility for his own actions on how much he drank, knowing that there were limits before he slipped into "problem drinker" territory. 

His response was positive, albeit not effusive. He did not seem to get defensive at all, which I appreciated.
@turnera - I like your idea of having him volunteer. We actually have a friend that runs a charity group in our town; I may recommend he contact the guy to see about volunteering a couple times a week.


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## ResignedWife

Update - we're going out to dinner this weekend with the friend that runs his own charity group - hoping he can talk my husband into volunteering with him a couple days a week. He was also a career coach before he retired, so I'm hopeful he'll have some good info for my husband. His job hunt is still stagnant - there have been NO new job listings in his field in our area for the past 2-3 days, and he has applied to everything that was published prior to that.

My own job interview was this week and went very, very well. I was only mildly dissatisfied with one answer I gave. The answer was truthful, but it took me a while to formulate the correct words to answer the question, so it may have looked like I was equivocating - which I wasn't. But it was a pretty minor interview question compared to the others, so I'm not too worried about it. They said I'd hear back in 1-2 weeks about going to the 2nd round of interviews. The opportunity sounds like a decent one, and the two people I interviewed with were VERY VERY nice (they'd be my immediate bosses).


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## ResignedWife

Just heard today that the company with which I interviewed is not going to bring me back for round two. No reason given, but I suspect that I'm overqualified (I had even mentioned to my husband that in the long-term the job would probably be boring, but that I was willing to do it if it meant more pay and opportunity for advancement in a couple years).

Our dinner with our friends went well, but it turns out I was mistaken that he was a former career coach. He actually USED a career coach when they moved to our area many years ago. Big difference. *lol* Despite that, it was a fun night out and we really enjoyed ourselves. 

Drinking levels have remained low - only 5-6 beers a week since 7/10 when I called him out on that one excessive weekend. As a result - shocker! (not) - he has slept better and rarely gets up during the night now. He is also much more relaxed (despite the disappointing job hunt), and secretly vindicated when he hears through the grapevine that things have fallen apart at his former company since his forced departure because no one knows how to do his job.

There's a slight chance I've been able to find a contact within my company about a job across town that is something he could do even if he has no direct prior experience. My contact said that sometimes getting someone in a job that is teachable is better than getting someone that has already done the job and has preconceived ideas about how the role should function, so she's going to speak on his behalf to the hiring manager to see if she can at least get my husband "to the table" for an interview, if nothing else. Fingers crossed.


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## ResignedWife

Husband had a one-hour phone interview yesterday with a company about 30 miles away. He felt it went well and thinks he may get a call back for an in-person interview. It's a small, privately-held company who (for some reason) put their HQ in the middle of nowhere, so I doubt there are a lot of candidates willing to travel over to that part of the county. We'll see if that works in my husband's favor since he doesn't care about the commute time/distance or amenities near the office.

I had decided to not search for a new job after getting turned down last week, but then something fell in my lap that looked like a good opportunity, so I submitted my resume. Haven't heard anything yet, but I'm hopeful. It's a very similar position to the one I interviewed for a couple weeks ago, but it's a company that is in the same industry that I'm currently in (whereas the other one was something completely different). I'm hoping that makes me a good candidate that they'll consider contacting.

Relationship-wise, we're in a bit of a holding pattern. Better than we were many months ago, but not necessarily improving week over week. But I think we're both "in limbo" waiting for him to get a new job, and then we'll feel we can focus on our relationship. Right now the focus is on his job hunt. But communication remains good, he continues to be more actively involved in family stuff, he continues to be much nicer than he has been in the past, and his drinking seems to be evening out as well.


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## ResignedWife

Phone interview must have been good, because today my husband has an in-person interview with the company. I've got a prayer chain going in hopes that the interview goes well. If he charms them (which he is good at doing when he really turns it on), could it mean a verbal offer by Friday? We'll see!


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## aine

Hope all goes well for tommorrow and he lands that job!


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## JustAFamilyMan

ResignedWife said:


> Because it's effectively a loveless marriage. At least, loveless in the sense that it's not a MARRIED kind of love. My husband has admitted on a few occasions that he wants PASSION and EXCITEMENT. In the words of a friend of mine, very few married-for-a-long-time couples are gettin' busy on the kitchen counter or sneaking off in the middle of a party to go at it in the bathroom. So I don't know what kind of romance novels he's reading (j/k), but when I look around at my friends and family who are married they are not living PASSIONATE, EXCITED lives. They work 40 hours a week, have a couple kids, a mortgage, a gym membership, and at least one family vacation a year. A typical married, settled, suburban life.


Sorry, old quote. Close to something that stings, so removing my reply. Carry on.


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## thedope

Glad you are trying to work on things. He at least is making an effort to cut back on the beer. I hope you continue to work on things. I'm glad you are there for him when he isn't working, perhaps you can reassure him you always will be there for him.


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## ResignedWife

It has been a month since my last update -

For the position from a month ago, we thought he'd get an offer, but the company is delaying picking a final candidate (out of two, including my husband) and continuing to interview others. His recruiter has said if they can't find someone that has 100% of their "wants," then Husband may end up getting a call down the road. We're crossing this one off the list.

Another company REALLY REALLY wanted him - two interviews, lunch, and even upping the salary a bit, but in the end he turned it down because it required 90% travel for very, very low pay (even with the increase they offered when Husband balked) and he just doesn't want to do that (and I don't blame him). 

Then there was a third job that was kind of our "safety" job - we were 100% confident he'd get an offer just because of the nature of the position and the HEAVY positive networking involved. Alas, he received word over the weekend that he was no longer under consideration. We are not sure why, and we're hoping it was just a mistake (we've both emailed our contacts to get more details).

The fourth company said he'd hear back if he was being chosen for in-person interviews, and we have heard nothing back in over a week. So we're assuming that's a no go for 2nd round.

It's disheartening, really.


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## turnera

IDK, around here it usually takes 2 or 3 months to get a job. But I agree, it can be disheartening. It took me 3 years to get back to a permanent, non-contract job.

On Marketplace the other day, they were saying that because employers have had the upper hand the last decade, they've been asking for the moon for their employees' qualifications. But that it's all changing back to the job seekers having more clout as jobs are filled. But the employers haven't figure that out, really, and are still asking for ridiculous qualifications that aren't even needed for jobs. But not PAYING for those qualifications. And then complaining that they can't find anyone qualified. I took a $10,000/year pay cut to accept this job. They did say, though, that they are starting to get the message and start - finally! - offering people more money. We've been stagnant for the last 20-30 years; one of the reasons the middle class is disappearing.


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## growing_weary

I'm sorry your husband is having such problems finding a job. Hopefully things pick up now that summer is over. There's normally a lull during that time.


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## ResignedWife

turnera said:


> IDK, around here it usually takes 2 or 3 months to get a job. But I agree, it can be disheartening. It took me 3 years to get back to a permanent, non-contract job.
> 
> On Marketplace the other day, they were saying that because employers have had the upper hand the last decade, they've been asking for the moon for their employees' qualifications. But that it's all changing back to the job seekers having more clout as jobs are filled. But the employers haven't figure that out, really, and are still asking for ridiculous qualifications that aren't even needed for jobs. But not PAYING for those qualifications. And then complaining that they can't find anyone qualified. I took a $10,000/year pay cut to accept this job. They did say, though, that they are starting to get the message and start - finally! - offering people more money. We've been stagnant for the last 20-30 years; one of the reasons the middle class is disappearing.


I completely agree with that assessment. The job he turned down had a salary that was really offensive considering the work involved, and the EXPERIENCE required. They were offering entry-level wages for it. And even after being willing to raise the salary by 25% it was what my husband earned 10 years ago and still twice the workload. Yes, I want him to have a job - but not with that kind of backward compensation!


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## turnera

When my DD27 started college, a Masters in her field was earning about $50,000. Now that she has her Masters, all the jobs are offering around $30,000. While the price of college went up 400% in the past decade. It's ridiculous.


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## ResignedWife

ResignedWife said:


> Then there was a third job that was kind of our "safety" job - we were 100% confident he'd get an offer just because of the nature of the position and the HEAVY positive networking involved. Alas, he received word over the weekend that he was no longer under consideration. We are not sure why, and we're hoping it was just a mistake (we've both emailed our contacts to get more details).


An update on this job - turns out he may still be in the running after all! I got an email from my contact that said the department definitely wants to hire my husband, but for a different area than the one for which he interviewed. He has to interview with a different hiring manager, and that is set up for next week. But all signs point to "yes" on receiving an offer for this one after all! The new area has a slightly better work/life balance (no weekends, more holidays off, no late hours) for the same pay, so we're happy about that!


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## ResignedWife

The interview was today and went well. 

There are three spots available, so he has good odds even though they are interviewing a few other people this week. They want all three positions filled within the next 3 weeks, which bodes well for a quick turnaround if he gets one of the three spots.

In the meantime he'll continue to apply to other jobs and see what happens.


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## RoseAglow

Hi ResignedWife, I wish your husband lots of luck with this possible position! I appreciate your updates. I'm glad you two decided to stick together and push the divorce aside. This entire situation would be so much worse for everyone involved if a divorce was going on as well. Having a supportive person, being in a team with someone who has your back- this is one of the main benefits of marriage IMO. We talk about sex a lot on these boards, and sometimes this aspect of a good marriage gets lost in the discussion.


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## ResignedWife

It has been two weeks since that interview and no job offer. I don't know if it's because they decided they won't want him after all, or the company is that slow with presenting offers. *sigh* He emailed the interviewer last week to tell her he was still interested and to request an update, and he got no email back. That's not a good sign.

He continues to apply for jobs, but nothing is coming down the pike AT ALL as far as interviews, much less offers.


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## 3Xnocharm

Trying to find a job these days really sucks. The whole online process is so horrible, as are phone interviews. Seems the best way to find something now is to network in, know someone who knows someone. I'm sorry this has dragged on for so long for you guys.


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## ResignedWife

Okay, so he had a phone interview today that went well - he said that the job is basically EXACTLY what he did at his old company, so he knows he's more than qualified. They said they'll be calling candidates next week for 2nd round, so we'll see.

In other news, at my company I've been networking on his behalf and someone came to me this morning to see if he was still looking for work, as they may have an opportunity. I said he was, and she asked that I forward his resume to her, which I did. So we'll see if anything happens there.

Lastly, I recently applied to a job for which I am COMPLETELY underqualified - but the optimist in me thinks I might have a very slim outside chance of at least getting a phone call. The reason I know I'm underqualified? The salary is more than twice what I currently make, and it is in an industry *completely* foreign to me. But hey, you never know, right? All they can do is say no thanks!


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## turnera

You just never know what people are looking for, so never give up hope.


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## 3Xnocharm

If you don't ask, the answer is always no.


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## ResignedWife

3Xnocharm said:


> If you don't ask, the answer is always no.


Absolutely!

He had another phone interview today - this time with my company. The in-person for that has already been scheduled for next week. With any luck he'll be able to schedule an interview with the company from yesterday so he can have TWO interviews next week. That would be great.


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## ResignedWife

Checking in after almost two months.

Husband is still unemployed, although he has a phone interview on Friday and another phone interview being set up for next week with my company - he was told about the job back in early October and applied for it, but then they put a temporary freeze on hiring, so they are only just now starting to sift through applications. He just happened to check in with the peer of the hiring manager yesterday and she said she'd remind the hiring manager to pull his application and schedule the phone interview.

As for me, I will be officially turning in my notice at my company in a couple weeks. I have been applying for jobs and met recently with a company that really liked me - they called me within 24 hours to present an offer. After some negotiations on salary, I accepted their offer. It represents an 11% raise in pay, plus annual bonus every December, which is nice. Benefits are outstanding (better than my current company) and the work sounds really fascinating.

As for the relationship, we are continuing to do well for the most part. He remains engaged in family stuff, has continued to be much nicer and upbeat in general, and while I still think he could drink less he is not drinking nearly as much as he did at the height of his stress and depression before he got laid off. Let's just say he's not RELYING on alcohol, which is a big change. Now he's drinking it purely as a refreshment, and he's not overdoing it. I'm practically a teetotaler though, so to me I still think ~7-12 beers a week is more than enough (I drink maybe one glass of wine a month, if that), but 7-12 a week is still better than the ~20-25 he was drinking before.


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## Satya

Congratulations on your new job!


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## ResignedWife

Husband's phone interview went well on Friday although she told him they had a LOT of candidates (more than a few dozen). He had a good rapport with the woman on the phone call (and she'd be the person he reports to), and feels qualified, but with so many candidates in the mix, he's not sure if she'll add him to her short list.

In his plus column:
- He can start immediately (no 2-weeks notice required)
- His pay range is VERY flexible.
- He has experience in his background.
- I have an old co-worker that works for the company and after the phone interview I contacted him to see if he could network on Husband's behalf.

In his minus column:
- His experience is from a long time ago.
- His pay range may still be above what they are hoping to pay.
- If the hiring manager doesn't like my former co-worker, the recommendation from him may backfire (this is a slim chance - I don't know ANYone that doesn't like my former co-worker).


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## GuyInColorado

Are you able to verify he's doing these phone interviews? Why does he have a pay range? It should be at the bottom. 

From my chair, it would appear to me he could convince you he's trying for all these jobs, when in fact he's staying at home drinking while you're at work and hiding his alcoholism. Tell him to stop drinking completely. Is he a fat slob? How's he paying for his booze?


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## ResignedWife

GuyInColorado said:


> Are you able to verify he's doing these phone interviews? Why does he have a pay range? It should be at the bottom.
> 
> From my chair, it would appear to me he could convince you he's trying for all these jobs, when in fact he's staying at home drinking while you're at work and hiding his alcoholism. Tell him to stop drinking completely. Is he a fat slob? How's he paying for his booze?


Yes, he's doing the phone interviews - I was actually home when he did the one on Friday afternoon. And he only has a pay range when the job is truly in his field - if it's not, he tells them he is open to whatever their payscale is. In Friday's case, he has done the work before, so he does have somewhat of a modest range, but it is VERY wide (it represents at most a 50% paycut, which the lowest he/we can go). The unfortunate reality is that our metro area has very limited opportunities for jobs in his field - making his job hunt much tougher than it would be if we were in a different metro area like Chicago, New York or Boston.

He is not a fat slob and he's not sitting at home drinking all day. At some point I started tracking his intake (he is a diligent recycler and the recycle bin is on the side of the garage in which I park) and while I *personally* think 7-12 beers in a week is a lot, it equals less than 1-2 beers a day on average, which is not that much. And as I said in a previous post, it's MUCH MUCH less than he was drinking just prior to getting laid off when he was at his unhappiest, most stressed and most depressed. 

Since getting laid off he has taken over 100% of all house and yard work, gets the kids off to school each morning, helps son with homework once he gets home in the afternoon, and runs all our weekly errands. Since he was laid off I've not done ANY of that, which, when we both worked, we shared 50/50. So he's not sitting around doing nothing every day.

He has been on several in-person interviews since getting laid off (including a few at my company), and he always forwards me the phone-interview request emails so that I can see if there are networking opportunities there. 

I appreciate your comments, and I realize that you are forming that opinion based on what I post here, but the fact is, he DOES want to work, he has to show proof of employment searches on his unemployment paperwork, and he has asked me to network on his behalf for several phone interview opportunities that have come his way.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

@ResignedWife

How's it going for you?


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## ResignedWife

Sorry that I’ve been gone for the past couple of months or so. It has been busy in ResignedLand.

I started my new job in early January and it has been a great career move for me. I like my new company, love my new coworkers, and the work is manageable. I’ve gotten wind in the past week or so from folks at my old job that people are continuing to leave (or be asked to leave) since my own departure, so I think the timing couldn’t have been any better for me to find a new job.

In more good news, Husband *finally* got a new job – and he didn’t have to change careers!! He DID have to take a pay cut, but it was not as low as our bare minimum. He has been there for a couple weeks now and while it has been an adjustment to have him working again (morning/evening routine changes), I can tell it has made all the difference FOR HIM to be working and feeling valued for his skills and knowledge again. He has met several people he likes, and he said his team seems to be a good cohesive group with no drama. 

As for us, like any relationship there are ups and downs, but now that he’s working again (which was our main priority for the past year (if you recall - he was looking for work long before he got laid off because he knew it was coming)), we’re now attempting to work on the relationship and communicate a bit better with each other now that the stress of his unemployment no longer looms over us. So far, so good.


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