# avoiding a sexless marriage part 2



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I have read a few key phrases many times of late. The first is "you are too controlling". And the second is "She resents me for ....". 

The best example of the too controlling was this. The H says his W goes to see her Mom and then she typically comes home later than planned. So he calls her - repeatedly because "he wants to know if she is coming home for dinner". This kind of stuff just kills me. First of all my W is my life partner, not my employee. She isn't punching a time clock. AND she isn't perfect which means she may have prioritize staying out longer than planned with friends and family when she is having a good time and not bother to call me. The H in the example above is behaving in a toxic way. It isn't about her or about dinner at all - its about him. 

The SANE behavior in that situation is to make dinner at the later end of the timeframe you usually eat, and if she isn't home by that time, eat with the kids and put her plate aside for her to warm up later. Of course it is fine to check on your partner if you are truly worried about there well being and it is ok to send a quick text message if they are way late asking if they are ok. But pressuring someone to come home "just because" they gave you an initial timeframe is a bad thing to do unless you have something specifically planned together that is either important or involves other people. 

As for money - a popular topic too fight about - you agree on a discretionary budget and then hold each other to it. You ignore the "line items" and simply address the overall spend levels. And you frame that in a constructive manner. "We need to provide the kids a financially stable environment. If you wish to spend more, one/both of us needs to EARN more. 

As for resentment, I have a few general thoughts and this is based on the fact that I have quite a good memory. Just like LOVE is a choice, RESENTMENT is a choice. 

In EVERY area of our marriage there have been situations where my W has hurt me. And if I wanted to, I could dwell on those situations. For example for a period of years when the children were young we had a LOT of sex. And yet the preamble was often me getting angry because my W came to bed late and I had to sacrifice a good nights sleep to have sex. The very self focused way to look at that time period goes like this:
- My W repeatedly did something that made me feel hurt, rejected and angry. I resent her for it and am holding that against her. Oh yeah - and there is nothing she can do about it now and I am not sure when (if ever) I will get over it. 

The balanced way to look at it is this:
- During that time my W felt presssured (and YES my bad - I was pressuring her) to have more sex than she wanted. AND I didn't have Athol Kay's clever bag of tricks (read MMSL) to kick things off earlier and in a playful/fun way. And part of the way she expressed her resentment was coming to bed late. So I am just as guilty if not more so than she was. 

The LOVING way to look at this is:
In addition to the bit above about the pressure factor - we have overall had a great/wonderful sex life AND even during that time while she came to bed late she rocked my world almost every night. 

So sure, I could focus on HER part in this and say with a straight face that for a few years she did this MEAN thing to me and I am NOT going to forgive her. WTF. Why would I do that? In fact, if I did that, it devalues and disrespects all the love, commitment and effort she HAS shown in the bedroom for 20+ years. It isn't just unfair to focus on the bad stuff - it is wrong. 

I may get flamed for this but the way it looks to an outsider is that the one partner no longer wants sex and they then CHOOSE to focus on resentments as an excuse not to have any. Notice what is happening to Tryingtofigureitout. She is "over" her supposed resentments and they still aren't having sex. 

A BIG part of a healthy marriage is not choosing to focus on the small percentage of mistakes your partner made over a long period of time. And instead focusing on the "overall" way they have treated you. 

I realize this sounds harsh but my reaction to some of this stuff would be: So I did something that hurt you 10 years ago, and then I fixed it after you told me, and I have respected your desires for 10 years and you are still upset? My guess is, if you haven't forgiven me after 10 years of good behavior, it is because YOU DON'T WANT TO. And that is your choice. Please don't for one minute think that I am ok with you treating me badly/ignoring my needs over that type stuff. If it was really that bad, you should have divorced me.


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## deiswoman (Dec 5, 2011)

Sounds like attachment focused therapy would help you turn your marriage back into something loving and fulfilling again. Try reading "Hold Me Tight"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

DW,
This was written for others. The last paragraph I wrote does not happen in my marriage. I was speakinging hypothetically. 

I have no long term resentments and to my knowledge, neither does she.



deiswoman said:


> Sounds like attachment focused therapy would help you turn your marriage back into something loving and fulfilling again. Try reading "Hold Me Tight"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I realize this sounds harsh but my reaction to some of this stuff would be: So I did something that hurt you 10 years ago, and then I fixed it after you told me, and I have respected your desires for 10 years and you are still upset? My guess is, if you haven't forgiven me after 10 years of good behavior, it is because YOU DON'T WANT TO. And that is your choice. Please don't for one minute think that I am ok with you treating me badly/ignoring my needs over that type stuff. If it was really that bad, you should have divorced me.


Again, MEM, you are working on the principle that everyone is willing to pull the house down on top them if the house isn't how they like it. Not everyone is. I know people will say "I have my pride", but if you destroy the whole edifice and end up financially sodomised and separated from your children, your pride won't feed you, shelter you or grant you access to your children. I've seen men do this. There might not be many winners, but there are plenty of losers and all the ones I've seen have lost, miserably.

Just saying...


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

I remember I used to call my wife to figure out why she was running late. I'm a 15 minutes early type. I absolutely hate being late with a passion. I had an expectation that everyone need to be like that. My wife had no concept of time. She would think she could pack 2 hours worth of errands in twenty minutes. So we'd plan stuff and be running late. Anyway, being tired of stressing myself about that issue because I figured out that me hounding her didn't help any, I had a discussion and explained that the poor planning showed a lack of concern for our time together. I stopped callling if she was out and her behavior changed for the better after a while. Now she usually texts me if she's running late. I don't answer the texts or even bring up the lateness anymore. The effort is there.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> Again, MEM, you are working on the principle that everyone is willing to pull the house down on top them if the house isn't how they like it. Not everyone is. I know people will say "I have my pride", but if you destroy the whole edifice and end up financially sodomised and separated from your children, your pride won't feed you, shelter you or grant you access to your children. I've seen men do this. There might not be many winners, but there are plenty of losers and all the ones I've seen have lost, miserably.
> 
> Just saying...



To be frank, if you're not willing to pull the plug then you're saying your happiness isn't that important. If you're (Not you specifically) willing to be in a sexless relationship then make the best of it and quit the complaining. Recognize your fate like "Runs" and live with it. If your relationship partner realizes that your needs don't need to be their concern then they won't be.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's not resentment it's avoidance of a behavior or a result you know ends badly. Correcting my wife for example. Always a terrible idea. Trying to end a discussion where you get the last word. Always a terrible idea. Suggesting a change of plans. Always a terrible idea. Pointing out that punctuality is something other people expect too - always a terrible idea. Always. You may as well poke her it the eye and tell her she's fat and has a mustache. You get the idea. Many 'battles' aren't worth fighting. It's not resentment per se it's acceptance. 

Word to the wise - if you want to find who's the passive aggressive in your relationship, listen for which one of you complains about how much they hate passive aggressive behavior. THAT'S the one.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

We absolutely hate that most in others which is most present in ourselves.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Kobo said:


> To be frank, if you're not willing to pull the plug then you're saying your happiness isn't that important. If you're (Not you specifically) willing to be in a sexless relationship then make the best of it and quit the complaining. Recognize your fate like "Runs" and live with it. If your relationship partner realizes that your needs don't need to be their concern then they won't be.



On this I’m reminded of an incident a few years back with a bloke I used to work with. He arrived at work one morning with a lip swelled fat enough to trip a pig. After a bit of pressing, I got the tale out of him of what happened.

He’d been talking to his grownup son who asked him why he had left his mother. He said it was over sex, and the next thing he knew he was picking himself off the floor.

The son’s next words were to ask if the father thought that he and his two sisters spending their childhood in a variety of grotty rented flats, never seeing their mother because she worked two jobs, was a fair return for him not getting his end away.

The bloke I worked with didn’t have a good answer. And his son told him if he ever laid eyes on him again in his life it’d be too soon.

If your needs drop everyone else in the pisspot for years after, especially those who are innocent bystanders, maybe you should question your “right” to have them met…


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> On this I’m reminded of an incident a few years back with a bloke I used to work with. He arrived at work one morning with a lip swelled fat enough to trip a pig. After a bit of pressing, I got the tale out of him of what happened.
> 
> He’d been talking to his grownup son who asked him why he had left his mother. He said it was over sex, and the next thing he knew he was picking himself off the floor.
> 
> ...



...... What happens when that same son finds himself in a sexless marriage.

Women do bear lots of responsibility. Wasn't all the man's fault. It's equally the wife's fault for not satisfying her husband.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> On this I’m reminded of an incident a few years back with a bloke I used to work with. He arrived at work one morning with a lip swelled fat enough to trip a pig. After a bit of pressing, I got the tale out of him of what happened.
> 
> He’d been talking to his grownup son who asked him why he had left his mother. He said it was over sex, and the next thing he knew he was picking himself off the floor.
> 
> ...


So the mom had no responsibility here at all?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The guy figured out that sex was important when exactly?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> On this I’m reminded of an incident a few years back with a bloke I used to work with. He arrived at work one morning with a lip swelled fat enough to trip a pig. After a bit of pressing, I got the tale out of him of what happened.
> 
> He’d been talking to his grownup son who asked him why he had left his mother. He said it was over sex, and the next thing he knew he was picking himself off the floor.
> 
> ...


the son should have punched mom also as it takes two for a marriage to work.

that boy would have got an a** kicking.
sounds like mom failed as a mom and a wife.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> ...... What happens when that same son finds himself in a sexless marriage.
> 
> Women do bear lots of responsibility. Wasn't all the man's fault. It's equally the wife's fault for not satisfying her husband.


The point is that everyone involved LOST. There were no winners.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> the son should have punched mom also as it takes two for a marriage to work.


And only the father brought the temple down on top of him...



> that boy would have got an a** kicking.


From whom, precisely? His father? The son had already demonstrated he was quite capable to beating seven colours of sh*t out of the old man.



> sounds like mom failed as a mom and a wife.


THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! THEY ALL FAILED! THEY ALL LOST!

The kids lost out - what exactly is their responsibility in their parents' sex life?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Conrad said:


> The guy figured out that sex was important when exactly?


Some way into the marriage - she wasn't doing at much as he wanted, they argued, he left, the kids picked up the tab...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> Some way into the marriage - she wasn't doing at much as he wanted, they argued, he left, the kids picked up the tab...


Sounds like he fiddle-farted around as things were going off track.

How many kids?

How little sex?

Did he magically think things would improve?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like he fiddle-farted around as things were going off track.


Story of his life. He was f*ck-all use when he worked with me



> How many kids?


Three



> How little sex?


 Dunno. In a sense, does it matter? It wasn't enough for him. Guessing, I'd say very little indeed.



> Did he magically think things would improve?


No, he thought if he chucked his weight about she'd put out, when she didn't, he spat his dummy and left. Never seemed to have much of a sex life afterwards, based on the amount of time he was single.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

While I think he handled it poorly, this forum is REPLETE with nice guys who had a decent physical life and completely let it go following birth of child #1.

After a couple years of nothing, she approaches him wanting child #2 - and Mr. DumbAssNiceGuy says, "Sure thing, baby"

There are moments men have some leverage - well before 3 children exist who will be left fatherless.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> And only the father brought the temple down on top of him...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


None..apart from staying out of the way.

It is both partners responsibility to create a mutually satisfying sex life. If THEY want to destroy the marriage by not finding a way to do that then everyone looses.

I'm sick and tired of hearing that a husband should not stand up for his right to get sex from his wife at a level a acceptable to both! It takes TWO.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> None..apart from staying out of the way.
> 
> It is both partners responsibility to create a mutually satisfying sex life. If THEY want to destroy the marriage by not finding a way to do that then everyone looses.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of hearing that a husband should not stand up for his right to get sex from his wife at a level a acceptable to both! It takes TWO.


No -one is saying he shouldn't. What I AM saying is that if you decide that the only way is to pull the house down on top of you, OTHER people, who were no part of the mess, get hurt too. And maybe years down the line, you won't get a pat on the back for "doing the right thing", but what this muppet got instead.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> On this I’m reminded of an incident a few years back with a bloke I used to work with. He arrived at work one morning with a lip swelled fat enough to trip a pig. After a bit of pressing, I got the tale out of him of what happened.
> 
> He’d been talking to his grownup son who asked him why he had left his mother. He said it was over sex, and the next thing he knew he was picking himself off the floor.
> 
> ...


LOL. Everyone has a right to happiness except the father? Please. Sorry but I grew up poor with a single mom that worked multiple jobs. Should I get pissed and my mom because she left my cheating father? I mean as long as he was providing financially whats the big deal.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> And only the father brought the temple down on top of him...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


one fat lip dose not equal an a** kicking in my book.

now if the boy said why wern't you in my life you irresponsible SOB that would be different. dad should of took care of the children. at least financaly


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> one fat lip dose not equal an a** kicking in my book.


No, because the son stopped short of stamping his ribs in. The the kid could kick **** out of the father any time of the day or night. The only more stupid thing the father could actually have done would have been to have stood up and decided to try and have a go. As it was he had enough sense to know that all he was going to get was a real hiding. Sometimes sons are perfectly capable of kicking the **** out of their fathers. It's a fact.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

And actually this is kind of a mindset thing with me that is deeply wired. I am unable to think of a scenario where I file for divorce. EVEN if she cheated - don't think I would file. 

That said, I WOULD create a situation that "I" could live with and then if she filed I wouldn't fight her. So it is fair to say I am willing to do things that in my opinion make for an overall "balanced/fair" situation and if she couldn't live with that, I would accept that. Subtle but important (to me) difference. 

Runs is WAY beyond sexless. His W treats him in a way that I would not tolerate for ONE DAY. 




Kobo said:


> To be frank, if you're not willing to pull the plug then you're saying your happiness isn't that important. If you're (Not you specifically) willing to be in a sexless relationship then make the best of it and quit the complaining. Recognize your fate like "Runs" and live with it. If your relationship partner realizes that your needs don't need to be their concern then they won't be.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Trenton said:


> The story ended (or continues on) with no one being happy. I think that is the point. I highly doubt the wife was happy to begin with.


So we should stay in a situation that we are unhappy with because we may still be unhappy if we change? That doesn't make sense to me.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Kobo said:


> So we should stay in a situation that we are unhappy with because we may still be unhappy if we change? That doesn't make sense to me.


The CHILDREN also got to be royally miserable as a result of their parents' p*ss-poor sex life. 

He was unhappy before, and unhappy after. He just took his children down with him.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> The CHILDREN also got to be royally miserable as a result of their parents' p*ss-poor sex life.
> 
> He was unhappy before, and unhappy after. He just took his children down with him.


Actually, the parents took the children down with them.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> The CHILDREN also got to be royally miserable as a result of their parents' p*ss-poor sex life.
> 
> He was unhappy before, and unhappy after. He just took his children down with him.


You are leaving out a LOT of information. Just because someone leaves their wife or husband does not mean they do not or cannot provide a happy life for their children. Your whole idea of possibly bringing the whole thing down on yourself is basically living in fear. Second, his choice to leave was not out of the blue moon. His wife chose not to meet his needs. His leaving is a consequence of that. The children not being happy to the point where the son is beating up the father probably has more to do with the mother vilifying her former husband than her husband leaving. Either way I refuse to operate out of fear. I won't be immobilized in a situation where I am unhappy because I fear a future possibility. I have a good 65 years on this earth and I won't waste them.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Actually, the parents took the children down with them.


OK, fair point. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. But the kids still got to pick up part of the tab.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Kobo said:


> You are leaving out a LOT of information. Just because someone leaves their wife or husband does not mean they do not or cannot provide a happy life for their children. Your whole idea of possibly bringing the whole thing down on yourself is basically living in fear. Second, his choice to leave was not out of the blue moon. His wife chose not to meet his needs. His leaving is a consequence of that. The children not being happy to the point where the son is beating up the father probably has more to do with the mother vilifying her former husband than her husband leaving. Either way I refuse to operate out of fear. I won't be immobilized in a situation where I am unhappy because I fear a future possibility. I have a good 65 years on this earth and I won't waste them.


Whatever...

Suffice it to say in this case the man in question did not, nor did he make any effort to, provide any sort of life for his children.

I just don't understand the metric that says your children having a crap life is a fair tradeoff for your own happiness. YMMV.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> Whatever...
> 
> Suffice it to say in this case the man in question did not, nor did he make any effort to, provide any sort of life for his children.
> 
> I just don't understand the metric that says your children having a crap life is a fair tradeoff for your own happiness. YMMV.


Why would I fear my children living a crap life because I divorce their mother? Unless you believe that children cannot live a happy life after a divorce. That has not been my experience or belief.


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## OOE (Mar 17, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> I just don't understand the metric that says your children having a crap life is a fair tradeoff for your own happiness. YMMV.


Is it possible that the children really just went from one crap life to another? Maybe their split was early enough that the son didn't remember how bad things were before.

It's easy to look at a a single frame and say "this life sucks." Of course, life isn't a snapshot. It's a filmstrip.

I hope the son's anger over what his father "did" doesn't turn him into an incurable nice guy.


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