# My husband isn't attracted to me



## symphonious (Sep 27, 2011)

I've looked around online for other advice and a lot of the people posting have kids, have been married a long time, or their husband has something else going on like ED.

We haven't got kids, we've been married only 3 years (together for 4), and my husband doesn't have ED. He's not gay as far as he knows (and we have talked about it).

What this boils down to is that this is his first real serious relationship. There are a lot of problems other than his lack of attraction (communication, et cetera), but in general I just feel like he isn't proud of me. If we were out together and bumped into a friend of his, I don't know how excited he would be to say, "this is my wife!"... as a matter of fact, at the guy gaming night he attended a few weeks ago, everyone was complaining about their wives/girlfriends so he jumped in to complain about me too.

That aside, I'm not a skinny little thing by any means- but in my defense, I haven't changed at all in the time since we've been together. I'm still just as fat as I was then and I'm still the same person I was then... so I don't really understand why he would marry a person he wasn't attracted to. He told me that he doesn't think he's ever been attracted to me, but that attraction isn't everything. I told him that attraction is multifaceted and important in a marriage- you can be attracted to a person's emotional self, mental self, or physical self- and being attracted to all three means that you fully love that person. I told him that sometimes you can start dating someone who's passably looking, but over time you come to love them completely (and yes, even for their looks- I've been in relationships like that). He hasn't even come to that point with me. I have no doubt that he cares for me, but he doesn't touch me like he loves me. He doesn't put his hand on me just to be in contact with me. He doesn't come up behind me and hug me. He doesn't like to really be in contact at all (he claims he's too hot at night to cuddle) and only lets me hold his arm when I'm needing help walking (I have some spinal issues, making my mobility limited). I kind of just feel like it's economical for him to remain in this marriage and we're good friends so why not just stay married? That hurts me, honestly.

Even if a person is fat (or not), they deserve to be loved and treated like the most beautiful girl in the world by their spouse... otherwise, why get married? I mean, really? There are guys out there (harder to find, but still) who will love me completely for who I am and touch me like they love me and WANT to have sexual interactions with me. They will want to cuddle me, they will want to be in physical contact with me. They will kiss me like they mean it and not just peck me on the lips... but at what point do you decide it isn't worth it anymore and leave your husband in order to find the guy that will do just that for you? I love my husband, but I feel that it isn't fair to feel disgusting and repulsive in my marriage. It isn't fair to have my negative self-image reaffirmed by my husband's lack of interest, lack of expression of his attraction to me (which we've established isn't there at all), etc. I feel shortchanged in a way, and even though prior to meeting him I always felt I'd never get married because I couldn't stand a person long enough, and I feel that we are more compatible than any relationship I've ever had, I find that now I'm just being this meek doormat, waiting for things to get better and waiting for him to REALLY love me... and how long am I expected to wait?

My pastors at church have expressed that I should try to give it time to work because my husband is not yet on the same spiritual page as I am and therefore he shouldn't be held to the same standards as I hold myself to because he doesn't know any better yet. They are telling me to keep trying to work it out, I'm sure in hopes that he will decide that he wants to follow God also, but even if he magically decides to do that, I don't know that he'll also magically decide that I'm beautiful. I deserve to feel beautiful.

What would you do? It's so hard to find advice because our situation is so different than the examples I find online. We're not married a long time or with child or have already had kids; he isn't sexually hindered by something like ED (as a matter of fact, he looks at pornography, so I know he can 'get it up'.)... so I'm just so troubled.

Of course I don't want to divorce him, because I do love him, but I feel that he doesn't love me the way I love him and he doesn't love me the way a husband SHOULD love his wife... including being attracted to me. 

Help!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

symphonious said:


> My pastors at church have expressed that I should try to give it time to work because my husband is not yet on the same spiritual page as I am and therefore he shouldn't be held to the same standards as I hold myself to because he doesn't know any better yet. They are telling me to keep trying to work it out, I'm sure in hopes that he will decide that he wants to follow God also, but even if he magically decides to do that, I don't know that he'll also magically decide that I'm beautiful. I deserve to feel beautiful.


Very flawed advice. You are correct. Spiritual awakening has zero to do with his ability to become a good husband. That's like saying, maybe he will become a pro ballplayer if he has a spiritual awakening.




symphonious said:


> What would you do? It's so hard to find advice because our situation is so different than the examples I find online. We're not married a long time or with child or have already had kids; he isn't sexually hindered by something like ED (as a matter of fact, he looks at pornography, so I know he can 'get it up'.)... so I'm just so troubled.


You are very clear in what your emotional needs are in your marriage. Your Love Language is physical affection. Love in a marriage is not "feelings" as much as it a series of actions that one does to make their spouse feel loved and special. You have a husband that REFUSES to ACT in way that makes you feel loved, even when you have been very clear what those actions are. You two are conversing about "feelings of attraction" but the issue is his refusal to act as your husband, and this is totally by choice. 

What I would recommend to you is get a copy of the "Five Love Laungages". Read it yourself. Ask him to read it. Then ask him if he is ever going to choose to love you in the way that you require to be loved. Give him the choice to love you in the way you need it, or to leave.



symphonious said:


> Of course I don't want to divorce him, because I do love him, but I feel that he doesn't love me the way I love him and he doesn't love me the way a husband SHOULD love his wife... including being attracted to me.
> Help!


It is sad to be a giver of love and not be a receiver. But, young and childless as you are (and please do not bring a child into this), it would be even sadder for you to waste your life in this way.


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## Mrs1980 (May 6, 2011)

I'm in a similar boat-just a few different circumstances.

My h at home loves to touch me-tell me how sexy I am ect. But then his actions leave me feeling like a frog. He checks out other women in front of me, flirts with other women at work, had an issue with porn (still think that's going on), doesn't defend me, stand up for me, brag about me ever. Then he wonders why I have low self esteem. He thinks if he gives me lip service that my self esteem will just flourish. I can't believe those compliments-they are all empty to me when they are not backed up by actions.

I know it's not our h's duty to make sure we have self esteem but they fail to see how their actions affect our lives and then in turn affect the marriage. 

Now he is having problems climaxing during sex...He doesn't understand how much it hurts me to know that he would rather masturbate to porn that have sex with me. I'm 31...My sex drive is the highest it has ever been. Just this last weekend-I gave him the "I'm out soon speech". I love him but it's not fair for me to settle with just being. I want passion. And I'm bitter. I want all those times back during my 20's when he wanted sex all the time-he would wake me up at 3am and I would go along-even if I was half asleep. Now, I beg and I might get lucky and have painful long sex ending with both of us not feeling satisfied.

I know this sounds harsh-but you're young-If he doesn't change soon you are going to get stuck. I feel stuck now-I have a few years left to try to have children and 1) I don't want to start thinking about kids until our relationship gets better 2) it's kinda hard to get pregnant when there is no sperm. 

He needs to realize that you are not going to stick around in this current situation. Maybe that will motivate him. Maybe it will not but you have to make sure that both he and you know what you need. If you move on, you are then armed with the knowledge of what you need and deserve in the next relationship. I wish I had done that at a younger age.


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## symphonious (Sep 27, 2011)

Mrs1980 said:


> I'm in a similar boat-just a few different circumstances.
> 
> [...] But then his actions leave me feeling like a frog. He checks out other women in front of me, flirts with other women at work, had an issue with porn (still think that's going on), doesn't defend me, stand up for me, brag about me ever. Then he wonders why I have low self esteem. [...]
> 
> I know it's not our h's duty to make sure we have self esteem but they fail to see how their actions affect our lives and then in turn affect the marriage. [...]


My husband doesn't stand up for me, be proud of me, brag about me... I wish he did, you know, just maybe every so often, it would make me feel more like he LIKES being married to me... which is what I meant about it feeling like he's just in it because it's economical, you know?

The problem is, I keep trying to make this work because I DO love him and I DO like having him in my life, but how much do I have to sacrifice (in this case, being made to feel like a beautiful person or at least marginally attractive, among other things) to do that?

Thanks for all the advice so far.


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## Mrs1980 (May 6, 2011)

*
The problem is, I keep trying to make this work because I DO love him and I DO like having him in my life, but how much do I have to sacrifice (in this case, being made to feel like a beautiful person or at least marginally attractive, among other things) to do that*?

Be careful here....You may be willing to sacrifice too much and that is part of the problem. You don't want to loose yourself, your self worth by allowing him to define it. That's what I am struggling with so much. I catch myself hating me-why? B/c my h has pix of a co-worker (female crush) on his phone. It's VERY hard..but you have to start realizing that his behavior-It's on him. You have to start doing things that you love that builds up your self confidence. It's a slow process but I've been running, reading-doing things by myself that I enjoy and make me happy. The more confidence you have in yourself and he sees that you don't need him to be happy-might be the catalyst. And if not, you are working on building yourself up as a person for the future. I am in the very fragile beginning phases of trying to rebuild myself and it's not easy and I know it's going to be a long road. I love my h very much-he's the only person I have been in love with but as I told him this weekend-I can't stay and allow myself to be constantly pulled down to 0 self esteem. My h is working on it but sometimes I can sense he's not trying hard enough or is slipping back into habits and I respond with my plans when that happens. 

If he loves you-he won't want to see you in that state over and over.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I don`t know what to tell you symphonious other than to stop taking counsel from your pastors and never sacrifice too much of yourself just to be with someone.

Its never worth it as it`s never enough.
Since much of what you sacrifice will never be realized you always lose in the end


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

To me, it sounds like you are living with a good friend that "doesn't have THOSE feelings for you...", and you will feel like you are missing out on the intimate aspect of the marriage...

You are correct in saying that everyone deserves to feel beautiful and loved...not just okay looking and liked a lot as a friend...that's for a room mate, not a soul mate...

If there are no kids, try to go to counselling first but if that isn't gonna happen, it may be time to cut your losses and move on...he isn't the only one out there and you will find someone that appreciates you for being you...

My situation is different, and you commented on my thread...so I will leave it at that...but if he has admitted that he doesn't find you attractive after four years of being together...he probably never will...I have met lots of women that I didn't initially find overly attractive, but as I got to know them the attraction grew...and you suddenly realize that you are flirting with someone you never really thought of "in that way" before...

Best of Luck!!

Later.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

symphonious said:


> I'm still just as fat as I was then and I'm still the same person I was then... so I don't really understand why he would marry a person he wasn't attracted to. He told me that he doesn't think he's ever been attracted to me, but that attraction isn't everything. I told him that attraction is multifaceted and important in a marriage-


Although he never told you that he married you for your looks you are now telling him that he must find you attractive anyway? You are the one changing the rules not him. 

Also, he is not complaining about you being fat, he is happy with you as you are, he just does not find fat people attractive. He cannot change what he is attracted to, but you can change from being fat if you want to. 

You have a choice, either accept that you will be fat and he will not find you attractive, or lose the fat. It is all up to you.


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## symphonious (Sep 27, 2011)

TRy said:


> Although he never told you that he married you for your looks you are now telling him that he must find you attractive anyway? You are the one changing the rules not him.
> 
> Also, he is not complaining about you being fat, he is happy with you as you are, he just does not find fat people attractive. He cannot change what he is attracted to, but you can change from being fat if you want to.
> 
> You have a choice, either accept that you will be fat and he will not find you attractive, or lose the fat. It is all up to you.


The rules aren't necessarily being changed as much as it is that he -used- to treat me like he was attracted to me. When we were first together (and even when we had first moved in together and yes, even after we were first married), he would do all the things he doesn't do anymore (touch me with desire, want to initiate sex, kiss me just because, hug and touch me just because, want to be close to me all the time, etc). I'm sure part of it is the 'new-toy' feeling wearing off, but still. The fact is, he was once attracted to me in a way where he showed it, and he isn't any longer.

I talked to him about it last night and expressed my concerns that something had changed and I didn't know what it was because I'm still the same person. He couldn't really articulate what had changed (he's an 'I dunno' guy) and this has been a conversation we've had before to which he sees where I'm coming from, tells me he will work on it, and then promptly goes back to doing nothing.

When I ask him why he wants to stay married, he says it's because he loves me... but then I ask him why he is intent on not cooperatively working together to repair damage that's been done and issues that need repairing. Of course his answer is always 'I dunno', but in all seriousness, that's what he does. He knows what the issues are somewhere deep inside, but his conscious only remembers what applies to him (he's got a major selective memory) and he remembers things from YEARS ago that illustrate his point. We have discussed, in depth, what needs to be worked on... but still, he's happy to just let me do all the work.

He made a comment last night while we were talking about how we interact sometimes and that he doesn't always like it. I explained to him that I'm not psychic and I need him to point something out to me if he doesn't like it, and that just as it's in my power to fix this problem, it's in his power, too. His reply? "How is it my responsibility to fix this?" Read: 'This situation is not my problem'... He is very sensitive and takes things too personally sometimes, so I explained to him that while he can explain to me what he is unhappy with, he could also work on taking things less sensitively- e.g. teamwork. The comment just illustrates this whole process though- he's approached it like none of this is his problem and it's my responsibility to fix it... yet, I'm not even the one who had the emotional affair. -_-;

So, frustration city. Sorry to rant. I just intended to reply saying that he was attracted to me in the beginning. :X


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

symphonious said:


> Sorry to rant. I just intended to reply saying that he was attracted to me in the beginning.


OK so now that the "newness factor" has worn off he does not find you attractive because you are fat. 

This really does not change much as the answer is still the same as I said before. "You have a choice, either accept that you will be fat and he will not find you attractive, or lose the fat. It is all up to you." 

Why are you ignoring the fact that you can lose the fat if him finding you attractive is important to you? You can talk to him all you want but that will not change what he finds attractive. He has told you that he loves you and has not made an issue of it, but you keep trying to change him instead of you working to improve yourself.

I will be blunt and tell you that it is time for you to put up or shut up. You will never be able to nag him into finding you attractive, so stop trying.


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## Mrs1980 (May 6, 2011)

TRy said:


> OK so now that the "newness factor" has worn off he does not find you attractive because you are fat.
> 
> This really does not change much as the answer is still the same as I said before. "You have a choice, either accept that you will be fat and he will not find you attractive, or lose the fat. It is all up to you."
> 
> ...


Wow-You really get off on insulting someone-Can you use the word 'Fat" again? I am 5'5" and 145 pounds and have experienced similar problems to her. Are you going to call me fat now and that all my problems with my h are b/c of my weight?


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

All *TRy* is saying is that she sees herself as "fat" and we all have the ability to make different choices and change that...but I really don't see where that is the issue here...



symphonious said:


> ...I haven't changed at all in the time since we've been together. I'm still just as fat as I was then and I'm still the same person I was then...


She hasn't changed since the marriage...maybe her self image has changed (or not??)...but yes, he has changed the rules on her, which isn't fair play!!



symphonious said:


> ...he -used- to treat me like he was attracted to me. When we were first together (and even when we had first moved in together and yes, even after we were first married), he would do all the things he doesn't do anymore (touch me with desire, want to initiate sex, kiss me just because, hug and touch me just because, want to be close to me all the time, etc). I'm sure part of it is the 'new-toy' feeling wearing off, but still. The fact is, he was once attracted to me in a way where he showed it, and he isn't any longer...


Maybe our situations aren't that different...do you spend anytime together...not on the couch watching TV, but out for walks or on a date night? I think that is the problem with my marriage, and has been for quite some time...maybe this applys to you as well??

Later.


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## symphonious (Sep 27, 2011)

TRy said:


> OK so now that the "newness factor" has worn off he does not find you attractive because you are fat.
> 
> This really does not change much as the answer is still the same as I said before. "You have a choice, either accept that you will be fat and he will not find you attractive, or lose the fat. It is all up to you."
> 
> ...


@TRy: Uh... okay?

My point in saying that he was attracted to me before SHOWS he's not bothered by me being fat. As a matter of fact he's told me he doesn't place emphasis on body type anyway, I'm just mentioning that because of my own insecurities.

I'm just really confused why you're putting so much emphasis on my being fat, like it's so out of the realm of possibility that someone could ever be attracted to a fat person? I mean come on. What the real issue is, is that he WAS attracted to me for a decent period of time and now he isn't, and I'm the same size now as I was then.

And believe me, if it was as cut and dry as 'go to the gym, not fat anymore', I'd be all for it because tbh, being fat is uncomfortable- but there are a lot of disability issues I have- mainly, a spinal condition, that prevents me from doing the strenuous activity required to 'hit the gym'... so before you start insulting me and saying that it's my fault for being fat and he just finds me gross, maybe you should think that perhaps there's more to it. :x

@coldshoulder: We do spend time together, yes, but it is mostly hanging out around the house. He works a lot of weird shifts (retail hours) whereas my job is days only. He is usually tired when he works late, but on nights he's home at a decent time (around when I get home) we usually eat dinner together, play video games together, watch TV together (we like to watch Tosh.0 because we can both just laugh and feel silly). He usually goes with me everywhere he can anyway (even to the store) in case I need help, but also (I like to think, anyway) that he just likes to come along for company.

We have had a marked decrease in 'fun events' because of my spinal condition- Ren Faires, cedar point, concerts, etc- I just can't stand/walk that much- but we have started playing a fun card game together that he's been teaching me to play and working with me on (Magic:The Gathering, if you're familiar)... which, I might add, that I picked up as an interest because I knew he liked to play it and I thought it would help us have a common interest. Turns out I like it, who knew. Regardless- I'm trying, but a lot of the issue is he'll say that I never do what he wants to do and it's always what I want to do, but when we are talking about what to do, he's always, "I dunno, whatever" and never offers up suggestions or anything. :x

I just forwarded him a list of things to do (by Mort Fertel) and hopefully he'll think they're worth doing together. (stuff like make a point to compliment, go out to eat together, cook dinner for one another, etc)


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

symphonious said:


> He told me that he doesn't think he's ever been attracted to me, but that attraction isn't everything.





symphonious said:


> What the real issue is, is that he WAS attracted to me for a decent period of time and now he isn't, and I'm the same size now as I was then.


I call BS and I can do it using your own words hearing only your side of things. He told you clearly what he thinks. Stop projecting what you wish he would think and try Listening to him.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

That first quote is from a statement from him recently...but his actions when they were first together say something quite different...



symphonious said:


> ...he -used- to treat me like he was attracted to me. When we were first together (*and even when we had first moved in together and yes, even after we were first married*), he would do all the things he doesn't do anymore (*touch me with desire, want to initiate sex, kiss me just because, hug and touch me just because, want to be close to me all the time, etc*). I'm sure part of it is the 'new-toy' feeling wearing off, but still. The fact is, *he was once attracted to me in a way where he showed it, and he isn't any longer*...


So the guy is being a *DORK*...maybe there is a totally unrelated reason for him pulling away, but unless he comes on and makes a statement to enlighten us...we will only be speculating...

It frustrates me to hear about women that want more sexual attention, when mine wants me to basically leave her alone...

Good Luck!!

Later.


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## chattycathy (Aug 19, 2011)

My two cents.

Maybe he is watching porn and his sexuality is over in that solo, secret space of life.

Men who watch it have the 'contrast' effect to actual real women they live with. You can not look like a woman in porn who dedicates her life to being like a 'barbie doll on steroids'.

If he is using porn and having solo sex to it.....he would be more apt to have ED with you too.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I think a lot of times after the newness wears off in a marriage people come face-to-face with the reality of it and find that it doesn't meet their expectations. Here's a good series you may be interested in reading discussing this issue: When Expectations Meet Reality - Focus on the Family

It was suggested earlier that you read through "The 5 Love Languages". You sound like you are a physical touch/words of affirmation person. Do you know what your husband is? Do you know what his needs are? Here's the site where you can both take a quick quiz to find out. It may help give you more insight in to your husband and he in to you: The 5 Love Languages | The 5 Love Languages®

Do you think that your husband feels overwhelmed or smothered by your need for attraction? Sometimes, without meaning to, people can come across as being overly needy which can cause the other person to pull away. If this is happening in your relationship, you can pull back. Focus on doing things that you enjoy on your own, focus on yourself. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is that of self-respect - being able to validate our own worth, rather than relying on others for it.

And finally, two quotes on beauty that I want you to think about:



> “_Pretty is something you're born with. But beautiful, that's an equal opportunity adjective_.” ~ Unknown





> “_People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within_.” ~ Elisabeth Kubler-Ross


God Bless.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> That first quote is from a statement from him recently...but his actions when they were first together say something quite different...


From her point of view she says that he use to find her attractive. His point of view as stated to her is very different. Since we are talking about how he feels, his point of view on this matters.



coldshoulder said:


> but unless he comes on and makes a statement to enlighten us...we will only be speculating...


Agreed.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

You know I really don't think it would matter much if she did loose weight..



TRy said:


> OK so now that the "newness factor" has worn off he does not find you attractive because you are fat.
> 
> This really does not change much as the answer is still the same as I said before. "You have a choice, either accept that you will be fat and he will not find you attractive, or lose the fat. It is all up to you."
> 
> ...


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

symphonious said:


> I've looked around online for other advice and a lot of the people posting have kids, have been married a long time, or their husband has something else going on like ED.
> 
> We haven't got kids, we've been married only 3 years (together for 4), and my husband doesn't have ED. He's not gay as far as he knows (and we have talked about it).
> 
> ...


We are going through something very similar. My H however has never said that he isn't attracted to me, He doesn't have to tell me..

You have to do what is best for YOU.. You can not change him, he has to do that on his own...You can talk about it and talk about it.. In the end, change for him, is his choice. You can not make him.. You can only change yourself. It all boils down to can you live the way you have been living for the rest of your life? For me that answer is no.. I can't. 

I have been married 14 years.. 12 of them were the best years of my life.. Everything seemed to fit into place. We were happy for a long time... Things change, people change and people grow apart. 

You can only go so far with things being one sided.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

ladybird said:


> You know I really don't think it would matter much if she did loose weight..


I use to complain to my wife about not getting enough sex and guess what? The complaining did not make her want to have sex with me more.

I then realized that although I cannot change her, I can change me. So I began to pay attention to small comments she was saying and realized that she has been politely let me know what to do, if only I would listen. One of those things was to lose weight. Another was to find more alone time with her without the kids. There where other comments too. 

I did not tell her that I was going to start doing those things, I just quietly did them and more. What surprised me along the way was not only did the sex get much better, but I started having fun with my wife like we did when we first met. Another thing was that on her own she lost weight and started doing little things for me too.

I may have sounded hard in my past posts here, but I wish that someone and been as honest to me. Think of all the wasted time I spent complaining that could have been used having fun.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

TRy said:


> I use to complain to my wife about not getting enough sex and guess what? The complaining did not make her want to have sex with me more.
> 
> I then realized that although I cannot change her, I can change me. So I began to pay attention to small comments she was saying and realized that she has been politely let me know what to do, if only I would listen. One of those things was to lose weight. Another was to find more alone time with her without the kids. There where other comments too.
> 
> ...


I do agree the more you hound someone to do something, the more they are not going to want to.. She has to loose weight for HER not HIM. Listening to each other is very important. Part of the problem is this.. No one is a mind reader. You have to express feelings, options, wants and needs and so on. If the other person isn't willing to try then what is the point... Maybe she is going about it the wrong way, yes, but that is the only way she knows how.

Her husband can not change her and she can not change him. They have to want to change themselves..


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## symphonious (Sep 27, 2011)

TRy said:


> From her point of view she says that he use to find her attractive. His point of view as stated to her is very different. Since we are talking about how he feels, his point of view on this matters.



Behaviour says a lot, though. Even though he's saying NOW that he never was, he acted like he was. Maybe he was faking it, I don't know, but either way. He acted like he was, period. 

And for the record, I told him that I posted on this forum and that you have some odd fixation with my being fat and keep insisting it's because I'm fat that he isn't attracted to me. He said that I could be twice the size I am now and it still wouldn't matter because he doesn't concentrate on the physical aspect of things. He also told me that part of his lack of attraction has been my declining spinal health (he feels bad and doesn't want to ask for sex, for example), knowing that I feel very much in pain, and it also (he thinks, anyway) might have to do with a lot of the way we interact.

So now that he's really shed some sort of light on it (as much as he can, anyway), we can figure out where to go from here. We're going to try doing a 40-day challenge (The Love Dare, if any of you have heard of it), and hopefully after that we'll have at least some enlightenment about what to do next.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Maybe he is repressing his feelings for you cause he doesn't want to injure you more? Do the pain meds help alleviate pain?


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

chattycathy said:


> My two cents.
> 
> Maybe he is watching porn and his sexuality is over in that solo, secret space of life.
> 
> ...


I'm curious . . . does the OP read romance novels or watch soap operas? Then perhaps it is she who has the unrealistic expectations about his willingness to be emotionally forthcoming, expressed as physical affection. Don't blame this on porn. Or if you do, then blame "romance" as well.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

symphonious said:


> Behaviour says a lot, though. Even though he's saying NOW that he never was, he acted like he was. Maybe he was faking it, I don't know, but either way. He acted like he was, period.
> 
> And for the record, I told him that I posted on this forum and that you have some odd fixation with my being fat and keep insisting it's because I'm fat that he isn't attracted to me. He said that I could be twice the size I am now and it still wouldn't matter because he doesn't concentrate on the physical aspect of things. He also told me that part of his lack of attraction has been my declining spinal health (he feels bad and doesn't want to ask for sex, for example), knowing that I feel very much in pain, and it *also (he thinks, anyway) might have to do with a lot of the way we interact*.
> 
> So now that he's really shed some sort of light on it (as much as he can, anyway), we can figure out where to go from here. We're going to try doing a 40-day challenge (The Love Dare, if any of you have heard of it), and hopefully after that we'll have at least some enlightenment about what to do next.


Can you expand on how you two interact? Is he basically always quiet and closed-off and you are always pursuing information from him?

Does he acknowledge that some amount of communication IS required within a marriage? Our spouses cannot read our minds unless we give them some information, yes?

I'm glad that he opened up to you some more. At least you are not totally in the dark anymore.

I know a couple who did the Love Dare and it has helped them (it was actually a couple where the husband was the 'hotter' partner trying to get a more reluctant 'cooler' wife to open up and talk to him more.) I hope that you find it inspiring.

Best Wishes.


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## symphonious (Sep 27, 2011)

IanIronwood said:


> I'm curious . . . does the OP read romance novels or watch soap operas? Then perhaps it is she who has the unrealistic expectations about his willingness to be emotionally forthcoming, expressed as physical affection. Don't blame this on porn. Or if you do, then blame "romance" as well.


Ah, no, I don't participate in either of those things. I don't really watch a lot of 'chick flicks' either, I tend to be pretty low-key on that. I spent most of my life growing up around guys, so mostly I'm pretty laid back, with the exception of this. I'm really just looking at how he USED to behave and how he behaves now.

I have discovered that he's visited porn sites on his phone, but he says he hasn't done it since I asked about it... so it's not CONSTANTLY. I don't even really know how he found time to do it, either, because like... during the time he was doing it, I was home 100% of the time, off on a worker's comp injury and couldn't really leave the house without his help. :X Where there's a will, there's a way, though.


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## symphonious (Sep 27, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Can you expand on how you two interact? Is he basically always quiet and closed-off and you are always pursuing information from him?
> 
> Does he acknowledge that some amount of communication IS required within a marriage? Our spouses cannot read our minds unless we give them some information, yes?
> 
> ...


He acknowledges that he needs to communicate more (he had a very suppressive childhood, so he's almost learning all over again to come out of his 'shell'), and in his defense he HAS made improvements since we got together (it was a bone of contention then, too, but it's taken him almost 4 years to make like, a 5% improvement). He has a therapist he sees, to which he gives partial, incomplete information, and then he comes home with her doctrines and suggestions and thinks they universally apply (she says, 'to be happy you have to do what you want', and he hears, 'do what I want all the time and no one or nothing else matters', for example)... I keep telling him that the advice has to be tempered. She's giving him general advice, which is true at its most purest form, but he has to take that and properly apply it (e.g. when you are married, you are in a partnership/family and every decision you make affects the other person in the partnership, so you can't just go off and do 'whatever you want' without at least thinking about the potential effects of what it is you're doing).

When we communicate about something, it usually is something he has a concern about. He will remember a situation or event and only remember the tipping point and say, 'this bothered me' (and usually it's 2 months ago, etc.) and then he'll add, 'I don't like how you treat me' as a blanket statement. For example, I'll mention something (and I'm trying to think of an example here) like "Hey, when you do laundry next time, can you make sure that you divide the dark clothes and the light clothes? The dark clothes bled into the light ones this time." He'll be like, "okay." Then, next time, he won't do it. He'll forget. I'll ask him about it, "How come you didn't divide the clothes?" He'll say, "I didn't know I was supposed to." I'll reply, "I told you about it last week when you did laundry and the clothes bled." "No, you didn't." "Yes, I did." Etc, etc, etc.

He will 'hear' me, but he doesn't 'listen'. He's also a huge procrastinator with things crucially important (paying his bills, making sure he's registered for financial aid for college, etc), so I find myself having to casually ask about it for a status update. He thinks it's nagging (and maybe it is), but the fact is, he hadn't given it a lick of thought since the LAST time I asked about it and is only thinking of it right now because I'm currently asking him about it (for example, to attend school in the winter, he's got to submit a petition because he failed his classes last term. He has to get documentation saying he can attend and complete courses. It's October, pretty much now, and registration for the winter term is going to happen in a few weeks. He's known about this petition since last fall when they told him he couldn't go that winter and put him on suspension... and he hasn't done a damn thing about it yet, knowing time is ticking). 

I think what happens is he blanketly applies "I don't like how you treat me" to anything that happens. If we EVER communicate about MY concerns, he immediately switches it to how it relates to him (I don't want to, I don't think I should have to, I don't like how you treat me, I never get to do what i want, you don't listen to me)... so we have more or less stopped communicating about things I'd like to have resolved and I just try to let it go, because it ALWAYS becomes about him. To put it into perspective, when he says he never gets to do what he wants, he's imagining he's told me what he wants and I just say no- the reality of it is, when asked what he wants, he doesn't know (I dunno), and can't offer up a suggestion, even as to where to go for dinner. In order to get anything done, I have to be the one to suggest activities, so naturally he's seeing me do this and is like, 'well, she always makes the decisions and we always do what she wants' and remembers that as truth.

His memory is very selective and he only remembers what applies to him or justifies his argument. His emotional behavior is very much like a dysfunctional female, whereas mine is middle of the road and possibly more on the male side (I forget arguments and spats pretty much immediately because they're 'resolved', but he remembers **** for EVER and throws it in my face later, even though at that time we had 'resolved' it), though being female myself I can't deny some female behavior (wanting him to behave affectionately like he once was, feeling hurt that he had an emotional affair on me and pushed me away for over a year while he did this, unknowingly to me).

Overall I think it's just general immaturity- before we got together he hadn't had very many serious relationships. I hadn't had any longer than 6 months either, but I had more than he did, so it's safe to say I've been around the block a few times and he hasn't left his porch. I cut him a lot of slack on this because I know if you don't know you have to learn, but he's happy to be like, 'well, it's all about me, so why do I have to learn anything!'.. so, again, just overall immaturity.

I'm hoping the Love Dare will show him some of the more meaningful qualities of being married, and not even from a Christ-following standpoint (I am and he is on the fence)- ultimately, the guidelines are pretty simple- respect your spouse and cut down on your defending of your actions and try to be better yourSELF and be better to THEM. It just so happens there's some bible verses illustrating that mixed in (it's reasonable, I checked)... so I'm happy he's at least willing to try.

And, dollar short, I forgot to put it in there up there somewhere (and it's too long to try and work it in)- when we communicate, he'll act like he gets it and agrees, but he doesn't agree so he's just giving lip service to shut me up (for example, he doesn't see anything wrong with badmouthing me to his guy friends. He also doesn't see anything wrong with flirting with his female coworkers... he doesn't agree that I think it's not cool to do in a marriage, so he says he won't do it, then secretly crosses his fingers when he says that, and just keeps on doing what HE thinks is right, so it ends up coming up in conversation over and over again).


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

You have to understand...most guys are immature, period...I'm sure my wife gets frustrated with me on that front as well, and I'm 41...I'm not trying to say that is is okay to be that way, I'm just saying that's the way it is...

On the school front...is the education something that he wants, or is it something that was an expectation of him...either from his parents or you? Because it doesn't seem like he has any real interest in making sure his time is well spent (could also be a maturity thing...I did the same thing my first time through college...failing courses and not taking it too seriously)...did he go to college straight after high school? I did, and it took me going out and getting a job...trying to make ends meet and not being able to afford the things that I really wanted before I got serious about a career...my second time through was a breeze and my marks were top of the class, even tutored other students...but I was 30 the second time around instead of 20...

I don't know what he is taking, or whether he is "into it" or not...but I didn't take college very serious until I spent some time in the "real world" trying to make a go of it and realizing that if I wanted the "nice stuff" like new cars, big house, travel I needed to get myself some education...but I just took it for granted when I went straight to college from high school...

I also took a step back and looked at what I really wanted out of life...the first time I went I enrolled in Electronics Engineering...sounded really cool, but the job opportunities were not that awesome...the second time around I took a Trade up (Electrical) and only had to attend school for two to three months at a time...so quite a difference, but I am probably making as much doing this as I would have if the Electronics had gotten me work, and a trade was much easier (I'm sure taking the engineering courses first made the trade school quite easy, hence the top of class stuff) Going this route has been a big confidence booster for me, and I am definately a good provider for my family...

Maybe it's time to just evaluate what he really wants to do for a career, not just what is "expected" or "sounds cool".

It almost sounds like he is depressed...which is where I think I was...

I hope this rant helps...

Later.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> You have to understand...most guys are immature, period...I'm sure my wife gets frustrated with me on that front as well, and I'm 41...I'm not trying to say that is is okay to be that way, I'm just saying that's the way it is...


Having a man who acts like a 'man child' is not going to make a wife attracted to her husband in any way, shape, or form. So, if you don't like the situation that you are in, coldshoulder, then YOU are gonna have to be the one to change it. It does not have to be that way just because "that's the way it is".

And if you are a 'man child', then growing up - taking responsibility, being strong, being confident - will help you tremendously. I hope that you go read the 'man up' sticky thread in the Men's Clubhouse and take it to heart.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Thank-you for providing more information on your relationship. That makes things much clearer.

It does sound like you have more of a "man child" than a man, and you have to sometimes act like his mommy. I would suggest to stop trying to do that. For the laundry, do your own. Make him do his own. Sit down and make of list of chores, divide them, and each be responsible for doing your share. If his don't get done, don't do them for him. Do things for yourself if you have to, but let him try and do things for himself. He needs to learn to accept some responsibility for himself and needs to see the consequences if he doesn't follow through.

“_It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities_.” ~ Josiah Charles Stamp

Have you two considered doing marriage counselling? Or have you done IC yourself to try and figure out how you can live and move forward in this situation?

Best wishes.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

symphonious said:


> He said that I could be twice the size I am now and it still wouldn't matter because he doesn't concentrate on the physical aspect of things.


Read what he just said here. He dodged the question of if he would find you more physically attractive if you lost weight. You let him dodge because you do not want to really hear the answer. It is a well know fact that men are more visually oriented when it comes to sex. If you want to know the truth, then make him answer the specific question of "if I lost weight would you find me more physically attractive? BTW I only focused on your weigh because you first did without any prompting from me.



symphonious said:


> He has a therapist he sees, to which he gives partial, incomplete information, and then he comes home with her doctrines and suggestions and thinks they universally apply (she says, 'to be happy you have to do what you want', and he hears, 'do what I want all the time and no one or nothing else matters', for example)... I keep telling him that the advice has to be tempered.





symphonious said:


> If we EVER communicate about MY concerns, he immediately switches it to how it relates to him (I don't want to, I don't think I should have to, I don't like how you treat me, I never get to do what i want, you don't listen to me).





symphonious said:


> 'well, she always makes the decisions and we always do what she wants' and remembers that as truth.





symphonious said:


> His emotional behavior is very much like a dysfunctional female.


It is clear that you do not respect him or his opinions and that you even think of him a “dysfunctional female”, and you ask why he is not attracted to you? You cannot cut off a man’s balls and expect to have a good sex life.

Clearly you both have issues but you seem to think that the only problem is him and that he needs to change for you to be happy. You cannot change him but you can change yourself. If you change, then the way he interacts with you will change.


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## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Having a man who acts like a 'man child' is not going to make a wife attracted to her husband in any way, shape, or form. So, if you don't like the situation that you are in, coldshoulder, then YOU are gonna have to be the one to change it. It does not have to be that way just because "that's the way it is".
> 
> And if you are a 'man child', then growing up - taking responsibility, being strong, being confident - will help you tremendously. I hope that you go read the 'man up' sticky thread in the Men's Clubhouse and take it to heart.


before you go jumping off the deep end and telling me to "man up"...read what I posted...I was talking about myself 20yrs ago...and how I was quite immature...yes I said that I still have my moments that probably pi$$ off my wifey, but that doesn't mean that I am not aware of my obligations to family...

I was talking about her original quote and making the assumption that they are in their early 20s and still have lots of learning to do...



Symphonious said:


> We haven't got kids, we've been married only 3 years (together for 4), and my husband doesn't have ED. He's not gay as far as he knows (and we have talked about it).
> 
> *What this boils down to is that this is his first real serious relationship*. There are a lot of problems other than his lack of attraction (communication, et cetera), but in general I just feel like he isn't proud of me.


And I'm not trying to jump down your throat, but usually you are quite a good voice of reason...but I believe you miss understood what I was saying, or I said it in a way that others miss the point (very possible)

All I am trying to say is that she may be miss interpreting what his actions are saying...the "I don't know if I was ever attracted to you..." may have come out in the heat of an argument...some people fight that way, dirty and uncalled for (also an indicator of immaturity)

I'm by no means saying what he is doing or how he is acting is right or appropriate...but it could be his way of saying "I'm just not happy with where I am heading in life...", he may not even realize that this is the problem...I didn't "man up" until I was almost 30...but maybe he doesn't think he has any options of changing course other than to knock down the whole "deck of cards" and starting over...when really he just has to take a step back, talk to his partner about what he is having issues with and they can work through it together...lots of people are self destructive when it comes to change...they don't know how to make changes without crashing to the floor...

Later.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> before you go jumping off the deep end and telling me to "man up"...read what I posted...I was talking about myself 20yrs ago...and how I was quite immature...yes I said that I still have my moments that probably pi$$ off my wifey, but that doesn't mean that I am not aware of my obligations to family...
> 
> I was talking about her original quote and making the assumption that they are in their early 20s and still have lots of learning to do...
> 
> ...


I had taken your comment to mean that guys are just immature and that's 'just the way it is' when you said "most guys are immature period". If I misunderstood, I apologize. If my comment isn't applicable since I don't know all about your situation, simply disregard it.


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