# Any thoughts....



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT. 

All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...

WHY? Why say things like that to an atheist? How am I suppose to respond?

I tried to tell her that was not really helping me...I don’t mince words well. I was polite don’t get me wrong but I can’t understand it.

After we chatted and I said I had to go she said...I will pray for you and try hitting your knees and see what happens. 😳

Any thoughts or advise on how to handle conversations like these in the future?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...


Umm.... Don't.

I'm a Christian and I can't stand ridiculous advice like that.

People like that allow for truly bad things to happen because they are useless and enable bad guys.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You have to understand for her whether you accept God as existing or not, she believe God can help you. 
Take it as it is intended a message of love.

Also maybe not call the religious person for support if you don't want religious support. It's her way. She isn't liable to change.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Umm.... Don't.
> 
> I'm a Christian and I can't stand ridiculous advice like that.
> 
> People like that allow for truly bad things to happen because they are useless and enable bad guys.


It just hurts. She KNOWS I don’t believe. How does she think she is helping...


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

She probably isn't sure how to help.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> You have to understand for her whether you accept God as existing or not, she believe God can help you.
> Take it as it is intended a message of love.
> 
> Also maybe not call the religious person for support if you don't want religious support. It's her way. She isn't liable to change.


Why can’t religious people understand that others don’t believe and offer advise without the religious connotations?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Not sure it's specific to religious people - what will be will be philosophy just denies us all any personal responsibility for our actions, whether it's religious (leave it with God) or areligious (que sera sera). But I would go elsewhere for guidance. Or learn to "interpret" what she is saying.

I'm not religious, but my grandma was and one of her favorite sayings was "god helps those who helps themselves." She was the kindest person I ever met, who did her best to be kind to everyone, and help everyone, but she believed in and pushed us to be confident in our own abilites. I learned to read the larger message and ignore the God part, because it wasn't relevant to me and it didn't have meaning, but the larger messages she taught about morals and treating other people the right way do resonate (we weren't raised religious). Sometimes, like you did, though, you need to know when to ask for help, so nothing's perfect!

I think if I read it correctly, your sister in law was trying to be encouraging when she said "God never gives us more than we can handle," she's trying to say you are tough and you will get through this.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> Not sure it's specific to religious people - what will be will be philosophy just denies us all any personal responsibility for our actions, whether it's religious (leave it with God) or areligious (que sera sera). But I would go elsewhere for guidance. Or learn to "interpret" what she is saying.
> 
> I'm not religious, but my grandma was and one of her favorite sayings was "god helps those who helps themselves." She was the kindest person I ever met, who did her best to be kind to everyone, and help everyone, but she believed in and pushed us to be confident in our own abilites. I learned to read the larger message and ignore the God part, because it wasn't relevant to me and it didn't have meaning, but the larger messages she taught about morals and treating other people the right way do resonate (we weren't raised religious). Sometimes, like you did, though, you need to know when to ask for help, so nothing's perfect!
> 
> I think if I read it correctly, your sister in law was trying to be encouraging when she said "God never gives us more than we can handle," she's trying to say you are tough and you will get through this.


I appreciate your insight. I guess my point is she knows I’m atheist. We have had many conversations about it. Maybe I’m being sensitive but it’s offensive. Imagine if the roles were reversed and I told her to pray to Thor...😂


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

you could also come back with Render on to god what is god and on to Caesar what is Caesar....in other words when you husband cheated i don't think that god was there, so in divorcing him the the laws of the state matter....I am with others here, your SIL while kind, unfortunately is truly helpless in trying to be helpful. For her the only answers she has are found in the bible. It's like that old expression, if all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail. 
Just thank her, and limit what you will share with her and others like her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Why can’t religious people understand that others don’t believe and offer advise without the religious connotations?


You reached out to her. She offered what she could. Why can't you be grateful that she took the time to listen to your story and offered advice based on what is in her toolbox? Now, you know that she isn't capable of offering advice that you consider to be helpful. No need to burden her with your problems further.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Lostinthought61 said:


> you could also come back with Render on to god what is god and on to Caesar what is Caesar....in other words when you husband cheated i don't think that god was there, so in divorcing him the the laws of the state matter....I am with others here, your SIL while kind, unfortunately is truly helpless in trying to be helpful. For her the only answers she has are found in the bible. It's like that old expression, if all you have is a hammer every problem is a nail.
> Just thank her, and limit what you will share with her and others like her.


I completely understand what you are saying. I guess through life I have had many interactions with acquaintances who don’t know my lack of religious beliefs who say things such as she has. I never correct them or say anything to allow them to think they are not in some way helping me. 
For me it is more that she knows me intimately. I’ve known her over 30 years. It’s a complete disregard of who I am.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> You reached out to her. She offered what she could. Why can't you be grateful that she took the time to listen to your story and offered advice based on what is in her toolbox? Now, you know that she isn't capable of offering advice that you consider to be helpful. No need to burden her with your problems further.


Because I have known her 30 years. It’s her disregarding who I am. I’m not sure I was burdening her. I have listened to her many times over the years.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She thinks she‘s right and you’re wrong. She’ll never change so if you want to talk to her you’ll have to take her as she is.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Often for people of faith, this is the only way they know to help.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Because I have known her 30 years. It’s her disregarding who I am. I’m not sure I was burdening her. I have listened to her many times over the years.


Are you not also disregarding who she is? Is she your husband's sister or your brother's wife?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Are you not also disregarding who she is? Is she your husband's sister or your brother's wife?


Brothers wife. How am I disregarding her?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Brothers wife. How am I disregarding her?


By expecting her to provide advice that you approve of rather than what she genuinely thinks will help you. You wouldn't hire a one-armed man to hang wallpaper would you? Then don't ask a religious person to provide non-religious advice. They aren't capable of it.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...*Now I know she is religious,* and she knows I am NOT.


You've known her for 30 years so you should have known what kind of advice that she would offer. If you didn't want her opinion, you shouldn't have asked. I'll never understand people who ask Christians for advice and then get offended when the advice involves God.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> By expecting her to provide advice that you approve of rather than what she genuinely thinks will help you. You wouldn't hire a one-armed man to hang wallpaper would you? Then don't ask a religious person to provide non-religious advice. They aren't capable of it.


With a due respect plenty of religious people are capable of giving excellent advise that have no religious connotations. Over the years she has come to me for help and advice should I have told her to pray to her deity for help?


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...


Sorry, I don't know a lot of the backstory, but were you expecting a different reaction? If you've known her 30 years, was this really out-of-character for her?

It sounds kinda callous, but at this point in my life, I know which family members I can count on to listen when I need someone to talk to, and which ones will try to proselytize/******** me, and I just avoid talking to the latter. It kinda sucks, because they're still family, and I'd be there for them, and I know that if they weren't so brainwashed we might have more to talk about, but I make that decision for my own sanity, and the sake of family relations.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diceplayer said:


> You've known her for 30 years so you should have known what kind of advice that she would offer. If you didn't want her opinion, you shouldn't have asked. I'll never understand people who ask Christians for advice and then get offended when the advice involves God.


I’m offended because she knows I don’t believe in God. I’m not a stranger.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TomNebraska said:


> Sorry, I don't know a lot of the backstory, but were you expecting a different reaction? If you've known her 30 years, was this really out-of-character for her?
> 
> It sounds kinda callous, but at this point in my life, I know which family members I can count on to listen when I need someone to talk to, and which ones will try to proselytize/****** me, and I just avoid talking to the latter. It kinda sucks, because they're still family, and I'd be there for them, and I know that if they weren't so brainwashed we might have more to talk about, but I make that decision for my own sanity, and the sake of family relations.


It hurts because over the years I have helped her numerous times. I was able to help them out of a very bad spot a few years ago. When she came to me should I have told them to pray and let me know how God handled it?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Why can’t religious people understand that others don’t believe and offer advise without the religious connotations?


I echo the Blonde one's sentiments.

That's all she's got so that's what she gives.

I'm a bit touchy about the advice because I've heard it muttered uselessly over the years but maybe she just doesn't know anything else to say.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

This is horrible advice especially given your circumstances. You are in an abusive marriage. Does she think God will swoop down from the sky and lift you into safety without you doing anything other than praying? He won't. God helps those who help themselves. He gives you the ability to do things for yourself. Faith is very helpful but it can't be used alone to solve problems, especially one as big as yours.

Might I suggest a support group? There are many out there even in times of Covid. Please consider it...I think it will help immensily and you may make a few new friends which I think are always good to have but especially some friends who get what you are going through are invaluable.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I assume you were looking for some practical advice and maybe a sympathetic ear. If so, she’s not who you need to talk to.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> It hurts because over the years I have helped her numerous times. I was able to help them out of a very bad spot a few years ago. When she came to me should I have told them to pray and let me know how God handled it?


Of course not. However, after this last talk with her you should!


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I appreciate your insight. I guess my point is she knows I’m atheist. We have had many conversations about it. Maybe I’m being sensitive but it’s offensive. Imagine if the roles were reversed and I told her to pray to Thor...😂


You just have to learn to interpret the religious advice into something useful for you. For example when someone suggest to me that I pray on it, I interpret that advice to be, keep thinking about it and you'll figure out the best solution. "Leave it in gods hands" means do nothing right now and hope for the best. 

Think about like prayer is basically meditation, when people are praying for a solution to a problem the praying helps clear the mind leaving space for their brain to sort it out. When their brain sorts it out they see divine inspiration, prayers answered, faith reinforced, everyone wins. 

I have found that my religious friends and atheist friends have similar morality and intentions, so they may use different language when giving advice but their intention to help is the same. So when your seeking advice from someone regardless of the religious or non religious status your putting your faith in them having the intention of helping the best they can.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I echo the Blonde one's sentiments.
> 
> That's all she's got so that's what she gives.
> 
> I'm a bit touchy about the advice because I've heard it muttered uselessly over the years but maybe she just doesn't know anything else to say.


I completely get what you are saying. It is just that she knows me and it feels more like trying to convert me. Why tell an atheist to get on their knees and pray...I didn’t get snarky but I sure felt like it. I suppose I’m a bit more emotional than I normally am and given all that had happened I didn’t expect it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> This is horrible advice especially given your circumstances. You are in an abusive marriage. Does she think God will swoop down from the sky and lift you into safety without you doing anything other than praying? He won't. God helps those who help themselves. He gives you the ability to do things for yourself. Faith is very helpful but it can't be used alone to solve problems, especially one as big as yours.
> 
> Might I suggest a support group? There are many out there even in times of Covid. Please consider it...I think it will help immensily and you may make a few new friends which I think are always good to have but especially some friends who get what you are going through are invaluable.


Solid advise. Thank you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...


Did he cheat?

Tell her that Mathew 5:32 gives you the the right to divorce. And for most of biblical history God would have sentenced your husband to death, the first time and you would have been log over this mess. It's only because of his mercy that he doesn't command that anymore. Unfortunately stupid Christians (I was going to say misguided but I have come to believe may Christians do and say thing out of malice and they don't deserve the benefit anymore, the fight over masks has changed my opinion.) use this mercy to the extreme. By the way the quote is sexual immorality, not adultery. Jesus doesn't even speak of adultery because at the time he was alive when he spoke this it was presumed that the person who cheated was put to death so you never had to make that choice. He didn't address adultery because the law was the cheater was not going to be around to try to stay with. You were made a widow or widower and you were free to move on.

Sexual Immorality is a very broad standard and I believe it is that way to give you a very easy out when it comes to sex as this is one of the hardest things to overcome in a marriage. This is quite the opposite to what modern conservative Christians teach unfortunately.

In fact there is no implicit statement on that changing. It's not like Jesus or anyone in the new testament said, well now because of Jesus we will no longer stone people who cheat to death. It is implied because of Jesus' mercy on the adulterous women. But all he did was stop people killing her and told her go and sin no more. No mention of the husband needing to stay with her.

From all of that I think it's pretty safe to say if you want to divorce your husband you can with the Bibles blessing.

To understand this you need to understand is lots of people who call themselves Christians are some of the most uniformed people about their religion of any people in any group alive. Many of them just use it to conform to culture the way many of the most progressive people do to whatever is the zeitgeist of the day. The difference is progressive standards move much faster then conservatives. The general point being it's about conformity and tribalism and has very little to do with good advice or even Biblical principles.

Since you probably shouldn't offend her tell her to read Mathew 5:32.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I assume you were looking for some practical advice and maybe a sympathetic ear. If so, she’s not who you need to talk to.


Indeed.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I completely get what you are saying. It is just that she knows me and it feels more like trying to convert me. Why tell an atheist to get on their knees and pray...I didn’t get snarky but I sure felt like it. I suppose I’m a bit more emotional than I normally am and given all that had happened I didn’t expect it.


I'm trying to bite back on the snark myself.

I'm pretty disgusted with that type of behavior it doesn't show good character or even awareness, just fanatic dribble.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Did he cheat?
> 
> Tell her that Mathew 5:32 gives you the the right to divorce. And for most of biblical history God would have sentenced your husband to death, the first time and you would have been log over this mess. It's only because of his mercy that he doesn't command that anymore. By the way the quote is sexual immorality, not adultery. Jesus doesn't even speak of adultery because at the time he was alive it was presumed that the person who cheated was put to death so you never had to make that choice.
> 
> ...


That’s the thing I don’t want to offend her. I could explain how she is going to hell based on her bible. I could say the same thing for my brother. I think she forgets that I am well versed in the Bible. 😂 
I never do that to her though. I respect her beliefs. We have had many theological discussions so she is well aware of my ideology.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...


Here's some translations:

There are situations like this one that have large parts of it that are both unpleasant and out of your control. Letting go of any need to control the situation you literally don't have control over will reduce your stress. As bad as it seems now, it will be over a lot faster than your marriage. There will be a time when it is over and you can look back at it as a dark time that you endured.

/end translations

Most of the time we approach problems from the perspective that we live in. I'm an engineer so I'm probably going to try to give you objective, dispassionate, effective solutions to your problems. I'm going to spend minimal (or no) time focusing on the emotional aspects. I probably wouldn't quote scripture to your sister in law. I think I _could_ do some of those things but it wouldn't be the first thing I did and probably not in the first conversation. It takes mental effort and agility to meet someone where they are instead of coming directly from where you are. If you don't have anything constructive to give them, most people have a couple canned platitudes to give instead ("it is what it is", "hope for karma", "but did you die", "this too shall pass", etc) and that's what she gave you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I'm trying to bite back on the snark myself.
> 
> I'm pretty disgusted with that type of behavior it doesn't show good character or even awareness, just fanatic dribble.


From someone who does not know me or say they love me it doesn’t bother me. From someone who KNOWS me intimately it feels disrespectful.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> Here's some translations:
> 
> There are situations like this one that have large parts of it that are both unpleasant and out of your control. Letting go of any need to control the situation you literally don't have control over will reduce your stress. As bad as it seems now, it will be over a lot faster than your marriage. There will be a time when it is over and you can look back at it as a dark time that you endured.
> 
> ...


It would have felt better if she has said but did you die...😂


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> With a due respect plenty of religious people are capable of giving excellent advise that have no religious connotations. Over the years she has come to me for help and advice *should I have told her to pray to her deity for help?*


If you sincerely thought it would have helped, yes. Yes, plenty of Christians can put aside the Bible - she isn't one of them. Did she take the lazy way out by thumping the Bible? Only she can answer that.

You know, you can choose to not be offended. It seems to me, you have a lot of other things to worry about than than zeroing in on one person's faux pas. Maybe, she is your scapegoat for all of the **** that has recently gone down?


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> It would have felt better if she has said but did you die...😂


That was one of my favorites when the kids were in elementary school but then they started telling me the same thing and it wasn't quite as funny anymore.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> That’s the thing I don’t want to offend her. I could explain how she is going to hell based on her bible. I could say the same thing for my brother. I think she forgets that I am well versed in the Bible. 😂
> I never do that to her though. I respect her beliefs. We have had many theological discussions so she is well aware of my ideology.


Tell her you are "shaking the dust off your feet" and following Jesus' teaching.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Tell her you are "shaking the dust off your feet" and following Jesus' teaching.


I guess I’m just tossing my pearls before the swine. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I used to go to a particular open A.A. meeting when I lived in Annapolis. There was a guy who was a regular who worked a successful program. He was an atheist. However, A.A. tells its members to turn their lives over to a Higher Power. So he determined his Higher Power would be the group's consciousness. Hey, whatever gets you through the night.

In your SIL's case, I don't think it's her religiosity that should be the issue here as much as her rather overly-simplistic response. It would have been far better if she had given you some practical ideas and feedback regarding your situation. Platitudes don't cut it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> I used to go to a particular open A.A. meeting when I lived in Annapolis. There was a guy who was a regular who worked a successful program. He was an atheist. However, A.A. tells its members to turn their lives over to a Higher Power. So he determined his Higher Power would be the group's consciousness. Hey, whatever gets you through the night.
> 
> In your SIL's case, I don't think it's her religiosity that should be the issue here as much as her rather overly-simplistic response. It would have been far better if she had given you some practical ideas and feedback regarding your situation. Platitudes don't cut it.


I’ve heard about the whole A.A. ideology. For an atheist it has to be hard to swallow but if the meetings and fellowship help I’m all for it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torn, you sound just like my mom. She was a hard core atheist and ironically had a good friend who was a born again and was always "praying for her".

I used to tell her that she took these things too literally and paid it too much attention.

First, your SIL believes so sending prayers your way has real meaning to her. Who cares if you don't believe? Just think of it as positive thoughts....you can never have too many of them.

Second, don't get so wrapped up in references to God that you lose sight of the meaning. Let go and let God only means that you acknowledge the things you don't control and worry about what you can.

I'm not terribly religious, though I do have some Jewish thoughts like my father, but I recommend you not worry so much and thank her for her thoughts.

That's it.

If she starts actively pushing things like going to church you can push back. Until then whenever she starts with getting on your knees tell her you'll keep it in mind.

I never understood why my mom got so worked up. Thank her for the thoughts and forget about it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Imagine if the roles were reversed and I told her to pray to Thor


It's never a problem... lol.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> REDACTED


Or through the verses I quoted which is exactly how the religion says he will. Specifically giving her reason to leave this asshole. 

IMO A God who wants you to stay with a man who repeatedly cheats on you and almost brakes your arm can't honestly described as Good.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m offended because she knows I don’t believe in God. I’m not a stranger.


In moments of crisis people are drawn to thinks that make them feel safe. In her mind Christianity does that for her. You can see this as proselytizing you, or you can see it like she feels powerless to help you and she is sharing with you something that makes her feel safe because she doesn't have anything else she can give you. 

She is wrong from a biblical stand point, but I don't think she is trying to convert you as much as saying, this is what works for me when I am overwhelmed.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...


You know her and know she is a Christian so presumbly knew what sort of advise she may give? Maybe seek advise from someone who shares your life path and who will give you the advise you want to hear.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> In moments of crisis people are drawn to thinks that make them feel safe. In her mind Christianity does that for her. You can see this as proselytizing you, or you can see it like she feels powerless to help you and she is sharing with you something that makes her feel safe because she doesn't have anything else she can give you.
> 
> She is wrong from a biblical stand point, but I don't think she is trying to convert you as much as saying, this is what works for me when I am overwhelmed.


I think its more that she knows that her faith in God has greatly helped her in life and wants the OP to have the same help and guidance.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> It just hurts. She KNOWS I don’t believe. How does she think she is helping...


Why has it had such a strong effect on you if you dont believe it? Just accept its her way of wanting to help and leave it there.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> This is horrible advice especially given your circumstances. You are in an abusive marriage. Does she think God will swoop down from the sky and lift you into safety without you doing anything other than praying? He won't. God helps those who help themselves. He gives you the ability to do things for yourself. Faith is very helpful but it can't be used alone to solve problems, especially one as big as yours.
> 
> Might I suggest a support group? There are many out there even in times of Covid. Please consider it...I think it will help immensily and you may make a few new friends which I think are always good to have but especially some friends who get what you are going through are invaluable.


That saying 'God helps those who helps themselves' isnt in the Bible. I suspect that she was suggesting that the OP asks for help and guidance for her present situation. Praying isnt for God to lift us out of situations but to help us through them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Or through the verses I quoted which is exactly how the religion says he will. Specifically giving her reason to leave this asshole.
> 
> IMO A God who wants you to stay with a man who repeatedly cheats on you and almost brakes your arm can't honestly described as Good.


Who has said that God would want her to stay with this man? He may well have thought she should have left before now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Why can’t religious people understand that others don’t believe and offer advise without the religious connotations?


Because we know that God would help if you let Him. My brother has been though some hard times (we both have). Occasionally I mention my faith and how its helped me, and he always accepts what I say very positively and thanks me for it even though he doesnt follow God. I dont understand why you are angry, if you dont believe then just say thank you and leave it there.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Did he cheat?
> 
> Tell her that Mathew 5:32 gives you the the right to divorce. And for most of biblical history God would have sentenced your husband to death, the first time and you would have been log over this mess. It's only because of his mercy that he doesn't command that anymore. Unfortunately stupid Christians (I was going to say misguided but I have come to believe may Christians do and say thing out of malice and they don't deserve the benefit anymore, the fight over masks has changed my opinion.) use this mercy to the extreme. By the way the quote is sexual immorality, not adultery. Jesus doesn't even speak of adultery because at the time he was alive when he spoke this it was presumed that the person who cheated was put to death so you never had to make that choice. He didn't address adultery because the law was the cheater was not going to be around to try to stay with. You were made a widow or widower and you were free to move on.
> 
> ...


Where did her SIL say she must stay with her husband?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...


I think you just have to nod along with it. But she sounds like one of those people who doesn't direct her own life or take responsibility for her own life and just goes where the wind blows her and that's not good advice. There are too many people who just sit around thinking they're going to get rewarded by some deity instead of getting up and working towards something.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I appreciate all the response and opinions.
I‘m not so much angry. 
Her and I have had a long history of discussing our different ideologies. It FEELS disrespectful to mine to offer up one that I reject out of hand implicitly as some sort of comfort. 
Her faith may bring her comfort but she knows it has no roll in my life. 
I did thank her for her time and her ear. It’s just felt hollow.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's the religious equivalent of "Not my job, man."


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's the religious equivalent of "Not my job, man."


Maybe 🤷🏼‍♀️
I just wish that she would simply take who I am into consideration.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Who has said that God would want her to stay with this man? He may well have thought she should have left before now.


There are a whole boatload of Christians who advocate for the marriage at all costs.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

OP, you went to a person whom you know is religious and became offended when she offered up advice based on her views and beliefs. So, do you expect people to suddenly respect your beliefs by ignoring their own while they are in your presence?

You know what she is and who she is and it comes off rather arrogant on your part to expect that from someone. You would be better off talking to them about it and tell them how it makes you feel, at least that's keeping it real. Now, if she's pushing it on you then that's a different story.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m not religious but sometimes their advice has helped me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe 🤷🏼‍♀️
> I just wish that she would simply take who I am into consideration.


I think that's the least of your worries right now.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Benbutton said:


> OP, you went to a person whom you know is religious and became offended when she offered up advice based on her views and beliefs. So, do you expect people to suddenly respect your beliefs by ignoring their own while they are in your presence?
> 
> You know what she is and who she is and it comes off rather arrogant on your part to expect that from someone. You would be better off talking to them about it and tell them how it makes you feel, at least that's keeping it real. Now, if she's pushing it on you then that's a different story.


I have spoken to her at length over this matter. I have seen many Christians here give rock solid advice and comfort to others without any talk of God.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think that's the least of your worries right now.


Maybe so. Still sucks to have one less person I can speak with.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...


Hi @Torninhalf ,

First, I am SO GLAD to hear that you are reaching out to people. That is a very wise idea, and I suspect it will be good for you to find some people who are your support. I think the main thing to consider, though, is finding people who are YOUR support. These will be people who love you, who care about you, and who are GOOD FOR YOU...people who support YOU. Make sense? 

Second, just so we are super clear with each other, I do consider myself a Christian person and by that I mean "a follwer of Christ" (others may define it other ways). I am married to a man who is a Buddhist, and by that I mean "he's not a Christian" LOL! 

I don't know too many people who call themselves christian who don't try to convert others, so on one hand, I'd suggest that you just recognize or accept the fact that most of the christians you know are going to try to pull you to God, rather than respecting your atheism. You don't have to like it, nor do you have to agree--but that's what christians do: they think it's 'loving someone more' to lead them to salvation. I don't think it's meant to be offensive...I think it's meant with good intent and it's "just what they know to do."

On the other hand, if you don't want "God Talk" advice and you do want common sense support and encouragement, I would suggest that you look into a domestic violence support group. Back in the day, I went to counseling and a support group after my exH was arrested for domestic violence. The police department referred me to a partners of domestic abusers support group run by the county. It was run by a lady for women, and on the side when I needed a little more, I'd also go to counseling with her too. It was part of victims' assistance in my county. 

In your instance, you haven't called the police or reported it to a law enforcement official, so you won't be referred like I was...but there are still programs like this for you that would help AND would offer you the support you need. Live support. The folks here on TAM care and will be here for you--so at least you have virtual support right now--but it would be so good to have real, live backing and reinforcement.

So...you can start here on Psychology Today Support Group list: Find the Best Group Therapy and Support Groups Near You | Psychology Today Just put in your state or your zip code, and you'll see the support groups near you. You can pick the once that seems right to you. 

You can also go to your county (or the county you're comfortable in), and look up their victim assistance or domestic violence programs. These folks will likely be required reporters...but if you ask for counseling, they might be able to refer you to a local support group that focuses on domestic violence. 

All-in-all, I'd say 1) forgive her for not being the help you need. 2) Take her words of "...turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle..." and turn them into "...Don't worry, you'll be okay. Trust the process. You are stronger than you realize-you can handle this..." And 3) Look for the people who will suppot YOU for who you are. 

It's good to hear from you! Glad to hear you are taking steps to take care of yourself, and that you're beginning to tell certain family members. Good job!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Affaircare said:


> Hi @Torninhalf ,
> 
> First, I am SO GLAD to hear that you are reaching out to people. That is a very wise idea, and I suspect it will be good for you to find some people who are your support. I think the main thing to consider, though, is finding people who are YOUR support. These will be people who love you, who care about you, and who are GOOD FOR YOU...people who support YOU. Make sense?
> 
> ...


Appreciate it so much!


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I have spoken to her at length over this matter. I have seen many Christians here give rock solid advice and comfort to others without any talk of God.


Well then, you know what you have with her then. At this point it's kind of on you to stop going to her for advice as it's likely to get you the same result. It's insanity to expect something different.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Has you sil ever given you non-religious advice? Let's start there.

I'm not religious but I kinda accept a religious advice and pray when needed. Why? Because the act of listening is an act of kindness.

She might not know how to give another type of advice. 

Take the good intentions. I'm sure she cares and you are in her mind.

You are in our minds here, religious and non-religious posters care and the goal at the end is to see you safe and happy.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Why can’t religious people understand that others don’t believe and offer advise without the religious connotations?


Because they genuinely believe that the fairytale is real. It's that simple.

I completely understand why you're hurt, its just that feeling this way won't help you, just learn from it and don't go to her for any advice in future.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Why can’t religious people understand that others don’t believe and offer advise without the religious connotations?


What would YOU say to a religious person who called you for help...would you give them their religious advice back to them? Or would you give them the advice that YOU believe would help them the most??

Have you ever told a religious person they should pray to God for guidance and help, when they've called you with a problem?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> There are a whole boatload of Christians who advocate for the marriage at all costs.


Not many who think you must stay after cheating.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> Why has it had such a strong effect on you if you dont believe it? Just accept its her way of wanting to help and leave it there.


I think this is worth pondering more. At some point. Not too long ago, I found myself getting agitated with someone close to me. Actually had a little vent to Mama Hearts about it - and very quickly, it became more about me; as in what was at the crux of this agitation within me. The scenario wasn’t too far off what you’re venting about, Torn.

I’m not religious. I think Diana asks a good question. My view is if you scratch beneath your own surface a bit more, you’ll get to a place of knowing whether you are willing to accept her way or not. Or perhaps how you might interact differently.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I grew up in a community that was overwhelmingly Christian and many of them fundamentalists but I didnt know of any who were sticklers you should stay with someone after they committed adultery, which is a sin. People who stay after adultery are usually just doing it for either financial or emotional reasons.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

frusdil said:


> Because they genuinely believe that the fairytale is real. It's that simple.
> 
> I completely understand why you're hurt, its just that feeling this way won't help you, just learn from it and don't go to her for any advice in future.


Except it's not a fairy tale.


DownByTheRiver said:


> I grew up in a community that was overwhelmingly Christian and many of them fundamentalists but I didnt know of any who were sticklers you should stay with someone after they committed adultery, which is a sin. People who stay after adultery are usually just doing it for either financial or emotional reasons.


Agreed, and its one of the few reasons Jesus gives for divorce.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I have to ask. Didn't you mention elsewhere that you grew up in an abusive situation? Did your brother grow up in the same? 

If so, that partly explains why you've tolerated your husband's abuse in the past. This is a guy who's apparently broken your arm more than once, so you've been putting up with a lot for a long time. That's something you've been conditioned by your childhood to think is, at least on some level, normal. Bad, perhaps, but at least in the range of what's acceptable in a relationship. 

So, it's also possible that your brother - having grown up in the same abusive circumstances - also believes that some level of abuse is acceptable, or even just the natural order of things. It's actually very, very, common for survivors of childhood abuse to be in abusive relationships as adults - either as the victim or the perpetrator. 

If that's a possibility, then you should really think of your SIL's advice in that context. It's possible that either she is abusive - or that your brother is. She may have been offering you the advice that she gives herself in a similar situation to your own. She can't advise you about leaving your abusive husband in a rational, non-religious, manner because she doesn't process her own situation (as either abusive herself or the victim of some level of abuse) in a rational, non-religious, manner. 

It's just something to consider.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I thank everyone for their advise and perspective. I know it is a touchy subject. Never talk religion or politics. 😂


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I appreciate all the response and opinions.
> I‘m not so much angry.
> Her and I have had a long history of discussing our different ideologies. It FEELS disrespectful to mine to offer up one that I reject out of hand implicitly as some sort of comfort.
> Her faith may bring her comfort but she knows it has no roll in my life.
> I did thank her for her time and her ear. It’s just felt hollow.


I see. It seems that you are not surprised she gave a religious response, as much as she gave a flippant and dismissive one. 

She may honestly believe she was giving you sound religious advice. Either way, it seems like a brush off, i.e "_don't burden *me* with _*your *_problems_" which is not a very Christian thing to do...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Torninhalf said:


> I appreciate all the response and opinions.
> I‘m not so much angry.
> Her and I have had a long history of discussing our different ideologies. It FEELS disrespectful to mine to offer up one that I reject out of hand implicitly as some sort of comfort.
> Her faith may bring her comfort but she knows it has no roll in my life.
> I did thank her for her time and her ear. It’s just felt hollow.


@Torninhalf ,

You know, two things occur to me:

#1 She may have said those things to comfort HERSELF. In fact, I suspect she fell back on her own "words of faith" because on one hand, she was was shook up hearing that her husband's sister had been physically abused (people don't know what to do), and on the other hand, it's the words she knows to parrot. What I mean by that is that people may or may not honestly believe it themselves or practice it themselves in their own life, but they know that "a good christian" says certain catch phrases like "Let go and let God." Thus, inside her own heart she may have been shook up or scared after hearing of your ordeal, and when one doesn't know what to do or what to say, what do you do? You fall back on "what's supposed to be said." Know what I mean? In some strange way, she may have been telling HERSELF those things so that she didn't feel afraid in her own heart. 

#2 What she said was disrespectful toward you. In real life, if she knows you, knows your life philosophy, and knows your belief system (roughly), then to push her own beliefs on you at a time of crisis is not respecting you. I mean, it would have been a WHOLE LOT MORE respectful to just say, "Wow I just don't even know what to say to that! What do you need? What can I do that would support you?" Right? I mean, you may not entirely know what you need, but at least it would be focusing on you and what you've been through and what you feel you need/want rather than focusing on her and her beliefs and how she might deal with it. Being respectful means that you show consideration and regard for someone or something--showing deference or doing something to show admiration for another person. Respect, in this instance, might have been to admire you for your bravery, and considering "Oh yeah, she doesn't believe in God so I'll do something else to show her that I hold her beliefs in high regard." Right? 

So what can you do about it? You've lived with an abuser in your life, and honestly abuse is the ultimate in disrespect. It may be giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I don't suspect she intended to be disrespectful--just that you are moving your life in a direction to get away from disrespect right now, and there she goes doing it again! I would say that wanting to be respected is normal, and that it's just as normal to "not be okay" with this disrespect. So just bear in mind that the problem isn't with you (I think you are thinking fairly clearly). If it were me, I think I would talk with her and just use that "this is not okay with me" format so you can resolve it. It's not a BIG thing. It's not a drama-filled crisis. But it is a burr under your blanket and it rubbed you the wrong way. 

I use this format: "When you <describe incident factually here>, I think <what thoughts come into your mind?>, and I feel <tell how it makes you feel>. So I would like to request <state what you'd like to ask for that would resolve the situation and repair the relationship>." Here's what it might sound like:

"*When *I spoke to you about what happened to me and you told me things like 'let go and let God' or 'God doesn't give you more than you can handle', *I thought *why were you trying to push God down my throat when I'm hurting and need a friend, *and I felt* really sad and pushed away and disrespected. I want to have a good relationship with you, *so I would like to request* that from now on you honor me by not trying to force God on me when I have told you I don't believe that. I volunteer to not force things on you that YOU don't believe, because I respect you. Are you willing to do that?"


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Did you discuss the abuse or just the divorce with your SIL?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> That saying 'God helps those who helps themselves' isnt in the Bible. I suspect that she was suggesting that the OP asks for help and guidance for her present situation. Praying isnt for God to lift us out of situations but to help us through them.


Didn't think or say it was in the Bible but it still holds true. If you don't do something to get yourself out of a situation, nothing will change no matter how much you pray. A person with Faith will find it helpful to ask for strength, which is what I was referring to in my post. BUT...knowing the OP doesn't pray and doesn't believe in God it is horrible advice. She went to her SIL for advice and comfort and got neither it sounds like. When someone I know is struggling and asks for prayers, I tell them I will keep them in my prayers. I know it comforts them and that's the point. I tailor my comfort to what a person wants and needs to feel better, not to what I would need because it's not about me. I'm curious...if OP had come to you, would you have told her the same thing, and why? 

I'm envious of people with a strong Faith...it really helps them through some horrible stuff. I believe it's all up to me so that's all I got. I go to my loved ones (sister and BF) for my strength and they always provide thankfully. That's what OP was looking for and I understand her disappoinment in SIL's response.


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## SdmsGG (Jan 6, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Because I have known her 30 years. It’s her disregarding who I am. I’m not sure I was burdening her. I have listened to her many times over the years.


Oh the irony. You are disregarding who SHE is. How about a little self awareness?


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## SdmsGG (Jan 6, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> It hurts because over the years I have helped her numerous times. I was able to help them out of a very bad spot a few years ago. When she came to me should I have told them to pray and let me know how God handled it?


If you catered to her like you expect her to cater to you, maybe you should have.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> So I reached out to my sister in law this morning. Explained some of what was going on in my life...Now I know she is religious, and she knows I am NOT.
> 
> All of her advise was along the lines of turning things over to God. Let go and let God. God doesn’t give us more than we can handle...
> 
> ...





Torninhalf said:


> I’m offended because she knows I don’t believe in God. I’m not a stranger.


Torn, not everyone knows how to deal with this kind of bombshell, cheating alone is shocking to many, add domestic abuse to that, most people are stumped. Sometimes people who care about you are really insensitive and honestly don't see it. 

Case in point, when I told my uncle (he's more like an older brother, we used to be close) about my ex's cheating, the first thing he told me, bad things happen to people who don't go to church. My uncle is a "super Christian" and does a lot of charity work, yet he can't see his own short-comings. Sometimes I wonder if he's trying to buy his way into heaven, and I know too many "Christians" like that. 

Barely a week later, he and his wife came to visit when he was here on business, they proceeded to put on a stupid Hallmark movie about dating and finding "the one", not a week after my life fell apart. We haven't talked since Christmas, b/c I'm moving on, and he can't believe my ex doesn't call me. Like what?

I'm really sad that you're not getting the support you need now when you need it most. Please don't let that discourage you, keep reaching out and you will find your people. Have you told your kids yet?




Affaircare said:


> Hi @Torninhalf ,
> 
> First, I am SO GLAD to hear that you are reaching out to people. That is a very wise idea, and I suspect it will be good for you to find some people who are your support. I think the main thing to consider, though, is finding people who are YOUR support. These will be people who love you, who care about you, and who are GOOD FOR YOU...people who support YOU. Make sense?
> 
> ...


Once again, lady, you are here to save the day with some real practical advice and empathy! I'm so sorry you had to live through this, but it's wonderful how kind you are to share and help others in need. Beauty and grace in action!


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Torninhalf, don’t know if I am the only thinking this, but I look for your posts just to get some reassurance that you are still okay. Prolonged silence makes me feel uncomfortable. Much love to you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Torn, not everyone knows how to deal with this kind of bombshell, cheating alone is shocking to many, add domestic abuse to that, most people are stumped. Sometimes people who care about you are really insensitive and honestly don't see it.
> 
> Case in point, when I told my uncle (he's more like an older brother, we used to be close) about my ex's cheating, the first thing he told me, bad things happen to people who don't go to church. My uncle is a "super Christian" and does a lot of charity work, yet he can't see his own short-comings. Sometimes I wonder if he's trying to buy his way into heaven, and I know too many "Christians" like that.
> 
> ...


Awwww Lady. High praise and I am humbled by it. All is good. Been an unbelievable week and I’m still processing so much of it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Harold Demure said:


> Torninhalf, don’t know if I am the only thinking this, but I look for your posts just to get some reassurance that you are still okay. Prolonged silence makes me feel uncomfortable. Much love to you.


I hope I didn’t cause any undue stress. I took a day away with my daughter and grand baby. Some serious one on one time. Your concern means so much to me. Thank you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SdmsGG said:


> Oh the irony. You are disregarding who SHE is. How about a little self awareness?


Wow. This is a support board correct? 😳


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

Howdy?

ever hear of something called a cliche - or a verbal crutch?

I recently had to sit through a 4 hour training session with an instructor who must have repeated "as I said before . . ." at least 100 times. Talk about cringing

Well, people who interject into their conversations "speaking as a christian - etc." automagically tells me they would be
lost in their path of life without "Gods Word" jeez? Also distracts from really taking them to seriously

Two religious type people talking to each other - interject the religious dogma all you want.

Speaking to someone who can decide how to talk/behave/choose and make decisions without having to refer back to "Gods Word" - they can be trusted to react to situations properly without hesitation. In other words - I think their Sunday School training and "THE WORD from GRANDMA" sunk into their mental processing engines.

Their are lots of avowed "atheists" who behave in society quite well - and also don't cheat on their spouse.

end of mini-rant


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I hope I didn’t cause any undue stress. I took a day away with my daughter and grand baby. Some serious one on one time. Your concern means so much to me. Thank you.


Sorry, didn’t mean to hassle you. Hope you had a lovely day, aren’t grandchildren just the best?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Harold Demure said:


> Sorry, didn’t mean to hassle you. Hope you had a lovely day, aren’t grandchildren just the best?


Hassle me? Hardly. 😁 I appreciate the concern!


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

????

You doing OK? or ?


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