# Do you sympathize with a "cheater" ?



## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

Been once a cheater myself and knowing some of my girlfriends who once cheated on their spouses, i do truly sympathize with the people who cheat.

I think the " once a cheater is always a cheater" doesn't apply to everyone. 

For me i was going through HELL. During that time i tried to end my life .. I got up one morning and decided i should go for a long swim ....

I wouldn't lie again . Wouldn't cheat again. I just was in the " fog". In a hindsight, i think i was mentally ill. Should have been in a hospital getting treated instead.

What do you think?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

uh oh


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I can't speak for everyone else, but no I don't sympathize. Cheating is a choice just like anything else. If someone is in a awful situation, they have the choice to leave. And I find people who make excuses for why they can't leave is a cop out. Its not that they can't, its that they wont. There is always a way to get out of something if you truly want out. JMO!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I've had sympathy when reading some stories until the cheater shows their true colors.By showing true colors i mean listing their reasons,justifications,rewriting marital history,trickle-truthing total strangers,and basically reading right from the cheater handbook.

my sympathy stops cold at that point.


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## Twofaces (Dec 5, 2011)

Hell no


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

jane1213 said:


> Been once a cheater myself and knowing some of my girlfriends who once cheated on their spouses, i do truly sympathize with the people who cheat.
> 
> I think the " once a cheater is always a cheater" doesn't apply to everyone.
> 
> ...


People who have cheated will say yes.

People who have been cheated on will say no.

Every situation is different. And no one can judge unless they've been there. On either side.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

If cheating is out of character for you, and _severe mental illness_ caused you to have a ONS (_and you're not using it as an excuse for cheating_), and you are truly remorseful for your actions, I guess there is a case for sympathy for both you and your spouse. You because of the apparent severity of your illness, and your spouse because of the pain you will have caused him.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> People who have cheated will say yes.
> 
> People who have been cheated on will say no.
> 
> Every situation is different. And no one can judge unless they've been there. On either side.


I disagree.I've never cheated.Been cheated on MULTIPLE times by different men though but my first instinct is to sympathize with people who are struggling regardless of their stupid choices.But of course,my sympathy ends when they begin reading from the cheater script.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Well, people do change, so I don't agree with 'once a cheater always a cheater'...however, I generally don't feel sympathy, either. I feel more sympathy towards the cheatees.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

As a former wayward spouse myself, I will say that I do not sympathize with a cheater. At the start of my recovery, I had a plethora of excuses: He didn't pay me enough attention, He wasn't attentive enough, OM made me feel like I was on cloud 9, OM loves me, OM wants to take me away from this life, Isn't OM so kind?, He dumps me because he doesn't want to be a threat to my marriage, OM wants to get back together, he must really love me. (Not saying that I use those now, just an illustration into my thought process) 

I used these excuses to justify stepping outside of my marriage, to get my emotional needs met by a man, by bullying my husband into a one-sided open marriage (through texts and pictures) and, then, an EA with the man.

At the time, I could not understand the hurt that my husband had felt when I neglected him. After all, it was just emotional. My friend and I were _just_ friends. I don't think I realize the depths of hurt until I seen my husband, whom I seen cry 1 before, break down into tears over it. Of course, 2 years later, I experienced that same soul-shattering emotion myself.

I do believe the once a cheater, always a cheater is a lie. There are some people who can pick themselves up, dust themselves off, take a good hard look at their marriage, and realize what was wrong. They strengthen poor boundaries.

But, sympathize, no. Everyone is responsible for the problems they bring into the marriage, and the baggage that they add to it. However, a cheater always has a choice to cheat or not. My husband's lack of attention did not hold a gun to my fingers to tell me to email the OM.


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## jane1213 (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes, i agree. Cheaters try to find excuses for themselves. Lame excuses. It is just bad.

Well, reading your posts i think i wasn't a cheater as a such. Possibly a liar, yes, but not a cheater. So i had some male friends who were interested in me in a way but i didn't know that back then. 

I was hanging out with this one friend of mine one night and we ended up " hugging" each other. I friend-zoned him the day after telling him i wasn't ready for a relationship right now. Two days or so after one of my male friends proposed to me out of the blue?? He wasn't even a close friend . I told my first friend about this proposal though.

I think i didn't set the right boundaries with my male friends due to my mental health issues? I wasn't married. I wasn't in a relationship as such, and it is so out of character to have male friends let alone to cheat or lie.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Sympathize; No.
Empathize: Yes.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I disagree.I've never cheated.Been cheated on MULTIPLE times by different men though but my first instinct is to sympathize with people who are struggling regardless of their stupid choices.But of course,my sympathy ends when they begin reading from the cheater script.


Which part do you disagree with?


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

once a cheater always a cheater does NOT apply to everyone.

a non-cheater can become a cheater.

i am sympathetic and share many different types of empathy with others.

If a person changes themselves how can you live wth yourself holding the past over someones head? Immature and grudging.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> Which part do you disagree with?


People who have cheated will say yes

People who have been cheated on will say no.


I don't think that's the case.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

jane1213 said:


> Been once a cheater myself and knowing some of my girlfriends who once cheated on their spouses, i do truly sympathize with the people who cheat.
> 
> I think the " once a cheater is always a cheater" doesn't apply to everyone.
> 
> ...


It would depend on the circumstance.

A new poster a few days ago named socke was cheated on by her husband and the circumstances surrounding his cheating made me pretty sympathetic to his plight as well as hers.

Generally though cheating is a pretty narcissistic act which garners no sympathy from me.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

BeachGuy said:


> People who have cheated will say yes.
> 
> People who have been cheated on will say no.
> 
> Every situation is different. And no one can judge unless they've been there. On either side.


Some of us have been on both sides.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't sympathize at all.

I also don't break for them 

Seriously, cheating is an act of cowardly selfish betrayal.

So to sympathize I would have to agree with a person choosing to:

1. Be a coward 
2. Be selfish
3. Betray

And that isn't going to happen.

Cheaters want to change this into a pity party where they are the victim and that is where the whole problem begins because the do not admit the truth to even themselves. They aren't the victim they are the perpetrator who CHOSE to cheat.

There am have been lots of other stuff in their life, but none of it left them having to choose cheating as a means of life. They chose cheating because the wanted to have sex with someone.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I don't sympathize at all.
> 
> I also don't break for them
> 
> ...


:iagree:

There is no room for wriggling there.

1]People who feel that there are extenuating circumstances for cheating , SHOULD NOT MARRY, because the vow has no such clauses.

2]People who are amoral SHOULD NOT MARRY,because the marriage vows are based on fidelity. Fidelity presupposes a belief in morality .

3]*People whose primal sexual urges take precedence over their cognitive function SHOULD NOT GET MARRIED, because if you have no control over who ,when , where and most of all WHY you desire to have sex ,then you CANNOT BE FAITHFUL.*

Marriage is not for everyone.
There are many other " lifestyles " available to those listed above who hold such beliefs. 
It would be better for everyone if they were honest enough with themselves, and choose a lifestyle suitable to their beliefs.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> People who have cheated will say yes.
> 
> People who have been cheated on will say no.
> 
> Every situation is different. And no one can judge unless they've been there. On either side.


I've been on both sides and I can tell you definitively that I do not sympathize with a cheater. It doesn't matter if it is emotional or physical. If trying to fix things with the spouse, I will offer suggestions. But if trying to justify, I tell them it's wrong. On here, though, I say it as nice as possible to avoid banning. =/ In real life, I don't.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

You're bracketing it into an all or nothing.... I don't agree with either.

There are some I empathize with. (I lke that empathize over sympathize)... While some stories, I just get irritated or angry at how selfish one person can be/sound.

I Really disagree with this statement from Carib guy.. "]People who feel that there are extenuating circumstances for cheating , SHOULD NOT MARRY, because the vow has no such clauses."

If you are saying that if they feel that way BEFORE they marry, then okay.. ....
There are stories of ppl being in faithful marriages for over 20+ years... and then cheat. They did not have that intent/ mindset when they got married.

My friend had a wonderful marriage for 25/more years... Has 4 great, loyal, exceptional children... and then the last 3+ yrs of marriage was pitiful. Yes, she was cheated on. But, if you ask her, she wouldnt give up those children & those happy marriage years for anything. In my interpretation, you are saying she shouldn't have gotten married at all. 

Oh... and I feel that there are some extenuating circumstances sometimes....(but I won't cheat on hubby...) does that qualify me as that I "SHOULD NOT MARRY"??


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I cheated on an ex. Not a husband, but a LTR.

No sympathy from me. I made the choice. I left soon after. Took nothing but the dining table because it was a gift to me.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Chelle D said:


> You're bracketing it into an all or nothing.... I don't agree with either.
> 
> There are some I empathize with. (I lke that empathize over sympathize)... While some stories, I just get irritated or angry at how selfish one person can be/sound.
> 
> ...


Yes Chelle,
What I am saying is that some people hold these type of views BEFORE MARRIAGE , and they meet someone , and pretend that they agree. 
Or sometimes people don't evaluate exactly what they are doing, or what they really want.
They just go and get married and then trouble starts.
When the tough times come , they want to eat their cake and blame everybody else.

That is why I think young people should not rush marriage.
Date around a little . Get some sexual experience [ within reason of course! ] ,learn the art of true intimacy and most of all get rid of their false sense of entitlement , before they even consider marriage.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Simple answer: No. I don't have sympathy for cheaters because it is always a choice. Our lives are defined by choices and it really does not matter what the circumstances are because there are always other choices that can be made beside cheating. You are responsible for your own actions. I have zero tolerance for cheating and have been in bad spots before, but never made the decision to cheat. Instead, I pulled myself away and then left the relationship.


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## donders (May 9, 2012)

jane1213 said:


> In a hindsight, i think i was mentally ill. Should have been in a hospital getting treated instead.


Did you ever get treatment for your mental illness?

That doesn't just "go away".

Otherwise what's to stop you from having another relapse and climbing on another penis in a mentally impaired state of fog?

They sort of all look the same in the haze


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I have no sympathy for the choice to cheat, why should anyone sympathize for that? It is lying and deception and universally unethical.

Doesn't mean I think one whom has cheated is evil or less than human, but not one whose values I share at all. If I had a friend who was cheating on a spouse I wouldn't remain friends with him/her. Not that there would be any drama around it, my energies would just naturally draw me to people whom I could put trust in.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I have never been on either side, but for years I have felt that I would sympathize with the cheater. Not in all situations, but in some I can understand their side. People keep saying that cheaters have excuses, I think some are legitimate reasons, not excuses. 
They want or need to be with someone else, but leaving the spouse first is not always the most practical thing to do. Yes, I base marital decisions greatly off of practicality and logic, not necessarily of the heart and emotion. People are not always in the best of situations, but they still want to be and should try to be happy while they are in them. Timing in life is never perfect.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

gbrad said:


> I have never been on either side, but for years I have felt that I would sympathize with the cheater. Not in all situations, but in some I can understand their side. People keep saying that cheaters have excuses, I think some are legitimate reasons, not excuses.
> They want or need to be with someone else, but leaving the spouse first is not always the most practical thing to do. Yes, I base marital decisions greatly off of practicality and logic, not necessarily of the heart and emotion. People are not always in the best of situations, but they still want to be and should try to be happy while they are in them. Timing in life is never perfect.


No, there is no EXCUSE to cheat. A cheater ALWAYS has the choice to do the right thing.... ALWAYS. If a cheater feels the pull to betray his spouse, he needs to sit down and talk to his spouse about what's going on and how to fix it. The only *REASON* I can see for having an affair is if the other spouse gives ABSOLUTE permission to do so, with no ramifications. THAT is the only REASON. Everything else is just excuses to justify the cheater's actions, PERIOD!


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> No, there is no EXCUSE to cheat. A cheater ALWAYS has the choice to do the right thing.... ALWAYS. If a cheater feels the pull to betray his spouse, he needs to sit down and talk to his spouse about what's going on and how to fix it. The only *REASON* I can see for having an affair is if the other spouse gives ABSOLUTE permission to do so, with no ramifications. THAT is the only REASON. Everything else is just excuses to justify the cheater's actions, PERIOD!


What if you are not physically attracted to your spouse? Shouldn't we have the opportunity to have sex with someone we are attracted to? 
When the love, happiness, and excitement is not in the marriage, people deserve to have those 3 things. When the resentment is miles high and you know the other person is not going to change. 
I'm not saying it makes it right, just that I can understand and its' not the end of the world.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't like it when the Betrayed Spouse acts like s/he did nothing to contribute to the decline of the marriage. I firmly believe that HAPPILY married people don't cheat. Acting like the cheating is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to someone, like the cheater is somehow the world's worst person or lowest scum of the earth--that bothers me a lot. There are many things worse than cheating--abusing others, esp. children, for example. 

But the cheater has made a choice to cheat vs. get out of the marriage, and that's cowardly. I don't have any sympathy for that, either.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

gbrad said:


> What if you are not physically attracted to your spouse? Shouldn't we have the opportunity to have sex with someone we are attracted to?
> When the love, happiness, and excitement is not in the marriage, people deserve to have those 3 things. When the resentment is miles high and you know the other person is not going to change.
> I'm not saying it makes it right, just that I can understand and its' not the end of the world.


No you shouldn't have the opportunity to have sex with someone who isn't your spouse while you are married.

when you get married - you vow to not have sex with others! So while married the rule is to honor your vow.

If you don't want to be with your spouse then divorce them. That will free you to have sex with others. See, it's the divorce that officially renounces your vow. You deciding to secretly cheat on your spouse, isn't a renouncement, it's just cheating.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

gbrad said:


> What if you are not physically attracted to your spouse? Shouldn't we have the opportunity to have sex with someone we are attracted to?
> When the love, happiness, and excitement is not in the marriage, people deserve to have those 3 things. When the resentment is miles high and you know the other person is not going to change.
> I'm not saying it makes it right, just that I can understand and its' not the end of the world.


If they are not happy in their marriage and are not willing to talk to their spouse and/or work it out with their spouse, then they should divorce/leave the relationship. There is absolutely no excuse for cheating.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

gbrad said:


> What if you are not physically attracted to your spouse? Shouldn't we have the opportunity to have sex with someone we are attracted to?
> When the love, happiness, and excitement is not in the marriage, people deserve to have those 3 things. When the resentment is miles high and you know the other person is not going to change.
> I'm not saying it makes it right, just that I can understand and its' not the end of the world.


If a person is not physically attracted to their spouse, then they should divorce or communicate to their spouse about it. Yes, a person deserves to have love, happiness, and excitement in their life. An affair will bring nothing but misery. It's a bandage trying to keep the bleeding in from a gory stump.

An affair does not show the betrayed spouse love. It will not leave them happy. When they find out (and they most-likely will), it will devastate them. It will breed resentment between the BS and the WS.

So, no, there is really no excuse for cheating unless the BS agrees to an Open Marriage. Then, it is not cheating.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

sisters359 said:


> I don't like it when the Betrayed Spouse acts like s/he did nothing to contribute to the decline of the marriage. I firmly believe that HAPPILY married people don't cheat. Acting like the cheating is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to someone, like the cheater is somehow the world's worst person or lowest scum of the earth--that bothers me a lot. There are many things worse than cheating--abusing others, esp. children, for example.
> 
> But the cheater has made a choice to cheat vs. get out of the marriage, and that's cowardly. I don't have any sympathy for that, either.


I don't think the betrayed spouse did nothing to contribute to the decline of the marriage. I think the MARITAL problems are the responsibility of both parties. My husband was neglecting my emotional needs. In turn, I pulled away from him. Things were fine the first 8 years. I started resenting him when he was unable to work. I began to think he was exaggerating. I know that these feelings were MINE, not his... but he also acknowledges that he was ignoring things. I was responsible for everything during that time. I felt like I was a single parent most of the time. He didn't want to do anything nor go anywhere. So, what did I do? Rather than focus on the kids, or put energy into a real hobby, I chose to seek attention elsewhere...which was WRONG. I hurt him, deeply. Rather than discuss the marital problems with him, I took the COWARDLY way of cheating. It never went physical, but it still hurts the same.

He eventually did the same... because he felt I was so far gone, so far withdrawn. But he STILL does not put the blame of his CHOICE to seek attention from that (I refuse to call her a woman) on me. That CHOICE was all HIS. Rather than discuss the issue with me, he chose to do what I had done. And he was EQUALLY wrong in doing so, and he admits as much.

By cheating, you break your spouse's trust. If there is no trust, you have no real marriage. But yes, I agree, abuse is much worse. I chose to forgive my husband when he cheated (and yes, emotional affairs ARE cheating). But if he ever raised a hand to me, or to my kids, he'd be out, I will not tolerate that in any way.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

gbrad said:


> What if you are not physically attracted to your spouse? Shouldn't we have the opportunity to have sex with someone we are attracted to?
> When the love, happiness, and excitement is not in the marriage, people deserve to have those 3 things. When the resentment is miles high and you know the other person is not going to change.
> I'm not saying it makes it right, just that I can understand and its' not the end of the world.


If you are not physically attracted to your wife, then tell her. Have the talk with her and see what, if anything can be done to fix it. If nothing can fix it then either AGREE TOGETHER to have "outside entertainment" or divorce.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

3 types of people

person who never cheats no mater what

person who will cheat

person who will cheat given right circumstances 

You put yourself in situations. Unless you are forced to do something that is a different story. I do not have much pity for individuals who's own poor choices led to their down fall. People destroy themselves and its all because of lack of proper judgement. Life is not hard if you exercise self control and are not being forcefully held back. I do sympathize with individuals who are trapped or are forced into something i feel pity for those born in certain regions of the world or grow up around some negative influences but i do not excuse wrong behavior when it occurs.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Writer said:


> If a person is not physically attracted to their spouse, then they should divorce or communicate to their spouse about it. Yes, a person deserves to have love, happiness, and excitement in their life. An affair will bring nothing but misery. It's a bandage trying to keep the bleeding in from a gory stump.
> 
> An affair does not show the betrayed spouse love. It will not leave them happy. When they find out (and they most-likely will), it will devastate them. It will breed resentment between the BS and the WS.
> 
> So, no, there is really no excuse for cheating unless the BS agrees to an Open Marriage. Then, it is not cheating.


:iagree:

most people should honestly divorce it would save them the heart break of the future cheating that will occur. As to why people feel trapped in a marriage when they are not really is beyond my understanding. I suppose it comes with the fear of being alone or possibly kids and a house tying up issues nevertheless you only live once. Its a damn shame that people have to endure such unhappiness and its a shame that people destroy themselves.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> 3 types of people
> 
> person who never cheats no mater what
> 
> ...



Funny, I tend to think of myself as first category because I was never tempted to cheat.

However, using some logic and practical thinking I think EVERYONE will cheat given the right circumstances so really there are only two types of people: Those whom have been under the circumstances that lead to cheating and those whom have not.

BUT, circumstance is not the same as random chance or completely uncontrollable conditions - thus the term "victim of circumstance" doesn't really resonate with me at all - in every extramarital affair the cheating spouse had a lot do do with creating the circumstance in the first place.

For me, even though I've never been tempted to cheat, I really can't be sure if its because I've steered myself away from any circumstances that could lead to cheating, or if its just that the necessary circumstances to cheat have never happened. But from your examples I will agree that there are those who seem to welcome the circumstances that lead to cheating, some (majority I would say) even embrace the circumstances for the thrill of it or thinking that they are above circumstance. Many people are willing to introduce a little risk into their marriage for the chemical rush - we are human that is what we do.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I have never cheated or been cheated on... but I could have sympathy for someone who falls...in the respect - their actions are showing GREAT GREAT remorse ...depending on the situation. 

I was the listening ear to a good friend whose husband stepped out on her (known them both since High school)...the Mormon Church ex-communicated him....She poured out her heart to me... she was torn...her church was pushing for her to divorce.... this was not the advice I jumped too. 

She decided to stay, it was the RIGHT thing for them, their marraige..their 4 children.... and to this day, HE speaks more vehemently against cheating than anyone I know...still wishes he could go back in time and relive that, hates himself for it, says he can never look himself in the mirror again the same way. HE is a changed man. 

They have had so much happiness and growing in thier marraige from that time -about 10 yrs ago now. Love my dear friends.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> I don't like it when the Betrayed Spouse acts like s/he did nothing to contribute to the decline of the marriage. I firmly believe that HAPPILY married people don't cheat. Acting like the cheating is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to someone, like the cheater is somehow the world's worst person or lowest scum of the earth--that bothers me a lot. There are many things worse than cheating--abusing others, esp. children, for example.
> 
> But the cheater has made a choice to cheat vs. get out of the marriage, and that's cowardly. I don't have any sympathy for that, either.


I have been through a few painful traumatic things in life, being cheated on was by far, the worst thing anyone has ever done to me. If she was abusive that would have been bad, if I was abused in childhood that too would have probably caused my more damage... but the pain of betrayal by your very own spouse, the one who you've become one with, whom has your heart, hurts emotionally deeper than anything I could imagine. Maybe not as much harm, but so much more pain.

Even since, I've never thought of my ex W as the scum of the earth, however I could never have been more disappointed in someone. I'm sure she is still a good person, I just really could care less except she is also my child's mother, unfortunately - I just hope that those loose boundaries she lives with personally don't transfer to my son thinking he does not need to live with honor, values and integrity, I hope I can instill some of those in him by myself or along with some future potential spouse.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Lon said*: I just hope that those loose boundaries she lives with personally don't transfer to my son thinking he does not need to live with honor, values and integrity, I hope I can instill some of those in him by myself or along with some future potential spouse


 You are a good man ...and Father Lon.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

aww thanks SA... good to know atleast my TAM persona comes across that way.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Writer said:


> If a person is not physically attracted to their spouse, then they should divorce or communicate to their spouse about it. Yes, a person deserves to have love, happiness, and excitement in their life. An affair will bring nothing but misery. It's a bandage trying to keep the bleeding in from a gory stump.
> 
> An affair does not show the betrayed spouse love. It will not leave them happy. When they find out (and they most-likely will), it will devastate them. It will breed resentment between the BS and the WS.
> 
> So, no, there is really no excuse for cheating unless the BS agrees to an Open Marriage. Then, it is not cheating.


Divorce is not always practical giving the timing. You guys talk as if saying, just divorce, because its that easy. Divorce is a legal, financial, and emotional matter that will have significant lasting implications. It doesn't just happen over night and I don't see how one just decides to do it. It is something that must be thought through, planned out, and strategized. You don't just dive into it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

gbrad said:


> Divorce is not always practical giving the timing. You guys talk as if saying, just divorce, because its that easy. Divorce is a legal, financial, and emotional matter that will have significant lasting implications. It doesn't just happen over night and I don't see how one just decides to do it. It is something that must be thought through, planned out, and strategized. You don't just dive into it.


Well as for the legal and financial delay, those are not the key aspect we're talking about, its the lies and deception to ones who are still emotionally connected to the cheater that is the issue.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Divorce is not always practical giving the timing. You guys talk as if saying, just divorce, because its that easy. Divorce is a legal, financial, and emotional matter that will have significant lasting implications. It doesn't just happen over night and I don't see how one just decides to do it. It is something that must be thought through, planned out, and strategized. You don't just dive into it.


When a BS discovers that their spouse is having an affair, the trauma of it can be the same as deeper traumatic experiences in life. I, personally, think that discovering the affair and the gaslighting that an AP does will have lasting impact on the marriage and the BS. It is why after 2 years, a BS can have PSTD and triggers based on the episode.

To me, and I am a FWS, I see choosing an affair over divorce (letting ones' spouse be happy instead of intentionally trying to cripple him or her emotionally) as cruel. Choosing an affair is just the easy way out most of the times.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Writer said:


> When a BS discovers that their spouse is having an affair, the trauma of it can be the same as deeper traumatic experiences in life. I, personally, think that discovering the affair and the gaslighting that an AP does will have lasting impact on the marriage and the BS. It is why after 2 years, a BS can have PSTD and triggers based on the episode.
> 
> To me, and I am a FWS, I see choosing an affair over divorce (letting ones' spouse be happy instead of intentionally trying to cripple him or her emotionally) as a cruel. Choosing an affair is just the easy way out most of the times.


What if the affair is never found out. I know, you guys say most of the time it is, but not always. If the cheater holds that guilt (because there would be guilt) and goes on with the marriage, or until divorce, as if things were no different.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Lon said:


> Well as for the legal and financial delay, those are not the key aspect we're talking about, its the lies and deception to ones who are still emotionally connected to the cheater that is the issue.


For some people the emotional aspect is what is most important. I am always thinking long term, thus why I am never happy right now.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Even if the affair isnt found out, you still act differently. treat your partner differently.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Why do you insist on saying "what if it isn't found out"? Seriously, there is no justification for cheating. *NONE!*


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

gbrad said:


> What if the affair is never found out. I know, you guys say most of the time it is, but not always. If the cheater holds that guilt (because there would be guilt) and goes on with the marriage, or until divorce, as if things were no different.


That's even worse than being caught - you will always hold this over your W and will lose all respect for her that she doesn't know what you've done, you will develop a superiority complex and see your W as pathetic, and those feelings will manifest in your behavior towards her thus you will be punishing her forever with the missing fulfillment people deserve - we each have one try to make the most out of our short existence and you are robbing her of hers without her even aware of why life can't be the joy it is supposed to be.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

gbrad said:


> What if the affair is never found out. I know, you guys say most of the time it is, but not always. If the cheater holds that guilt (because there would be guilt) and goes on with the marriage, or until divorce, as if things were no different.


If a person could control his or her emotions to the point of fooling their BS throughout his or her life, I would think that there was something wrong with them. But that is a different topic, altogether. Most of the time, they leave little clues. They will wince away from their BS. They almost always act differently. 

My husband is very computer savvy. During my EA, he started one of his own. He has his degree in computers. All it takes is one little slip-up as he found out. He delete a video (not a pic, a video) in his hotmail account, but he didn't permanently delete it. Even in my own EA, I noticed his patterns changing. 

The rest of the marriage (presuming the WS dies married) is a long time to be vigilant, an exhausting time to plan the moves. It is only a matter of time before they slip up. I know my great, great grandfather on my grandfather's side cheated all through his marriage. My gr. grandmother knew even before he confessed it on his death bed.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> Why do you insist on saying "what if it isn't found out"? Seriously, there is no justification for cheating. *NONE!*


Nothing wrong with a hypothetical. 
And I believe that every situation (not just cheating) is different and must be looked at individually.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Lon said:


> That's even worse than being caught - you will always hold this over your W and will lose all respect for her that she doesn't know what you've done, you will develop a superiority complex and see your W as pathetic, and those feelings will manifest in your behavior towards her thus you will be punishing her forever with the missing fulfillment people deserve - we each have one try to make the most out of our short existence and you are robbing her of hers without her even aware of why life can't be the joy it is supposed to be.


What!
How is them not ever finding out worse than them finding out? And what proof is there that each person who does not get caught will think of their spouse as pathetic and punish them?
And also, I am the bad person (though I have not cheated) because I am robbing her of something. We both get something out of this marriage. Yes, there are things that we both are missing and could have more of. But that is each persons responsibility. Not just one.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Writer said:


> If a person could control his or her emotions to the point of fooling their BS throughout his or her life, I would think that there was something wrong with them. But that is a different topic, altogether. Most of the time, they leave little clues. They will wince away from their BS. They almost always act differently.
> 
> My husband is very computer savvy. During my EA, he started one of his own. He has his degree in computers. All it takes is one little slip-up as he found out. He delete a video (not a pic, a video) in his hotmail account, but he didn't permanently delete it. Even in my own EA, I noticed his patterns changing.
> 
> The rest of the marriage (presuming the WS dies married) is a long time to be vigilant, an exhausting time to plan the moves. It is only a matter of time before they slip up. I know my great, great grandfather on my grandfather's side cheated all through his marriage. My gr. grandmother knew even before he confessed it on his death bed.


You are right, people could act differently. But then again, people act differently for all types of reasons. As for keeping it a secret the rest of the marriage. I think if the cheater intends on staying married, eventually they will get past it and what happened would go away and not have an effect. If the marriage wasn't going to last a lot longer, then they would just have to keep it a secret until completely separated. After that it wouldn't be so hard to do. 
Personally, I don't think being able to lie about it would be that difficult, but I could be wrong.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

gbrad said:


> What!
> How is them not ever finding out worse than them finding out? And what proof is there that each person who does not get caught will think of their spouse as pathetic and punish them?
> And also, I am the bad person (though I have not cheated) because I am robbing her of something. We both get something out of this marriage. Yes, there are things that we both are missing and could have more of. But that is each persons responsibility. Not just one.


It's worse because it prevents them from being able to understand why their marriage feels marginalized.

And yes I personally believe it is impossible to actually marginalize your marriage and make it so it feels not marginalized - yes different people may be more sensitive to the experience (I know I was). When I found out about my ex's affair, as much as it cut me deep it was also a big relief - it helped me realize that I wasn't losing my mind (or atleast that I wasn't the only one in the wrong).

And the reason I wrote that you are currently robbing your W of a fully invested marriage partner is because looking back at you old posts you have been wrestling with the idea of meeting your sexual needs outside of your relationship for atleast a year and a half - so even though you may not have "acted" on those thoughts by seeking it out, you have acted on those every day in the way that you put faith in your marriage.

You got some good advice back then to man up and share the truth with your W even if it means it hurts her - because the collective damage you are doing each day by not being checked into your marriage has been eroding it all this time. It's ok to have thoughts of infidelity and explore it in your mind but not dwell for years on it. Find the resolve you need, and if it means not being sexually attracted to your W, and that sexual attraction is a need for you (obviously it is since you are having this conversation) then the single most important need is not being met for you, and you are the only one responsible for meeting this need, which you get by being honest.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

gbrad said:


> Nothing wrong with a hypothetical.
> And I believe that every situation (not just cheating) is different and must be looked at individually.


and yet you talk about it in general terms...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BeachGuy said:


> People who have cheated will say yes.
> *
> People who have been cheated on will say no.
> *
> Every situation is different. And no one can judge unless they've been there. On either side.


I can have sympathy for cheaters. Not all cheaters, but some cheaters. And yes, I was cheated on. And also cheated, too.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> but the pain of betrayal by your very own spouse, the one who you've become one with, whom has your heart, hurts emotionally deeper than anything I could imagine. Maybe not as much harm, but so much more pain.


This is what I'm talking about. It is simply unrealistic and fanciful thinking to believe you can be "one" with another.

How we THINK about things determines how we feel. If people step back from this type of thinking, or they never had such thinking in the first place, betrayal and/or divorce are sad and difficult, but they are *not* the end of the world. 

It is a choice, to believe such a thing or not to believe it, to suffer such pain or not to suffer it. Change your thinking, and change how you see the event and how you experience the aftermatch.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

sisters359 said:


> This is what I'm talking about. It is simply unrealistic and fanciful thinking to believe you can be "one" with another.


Some of us feel that way about our spouses though. And, it truly is that kind of relationship. I have seen it in action... between my parents and other older couples. And that is what my husband and I strive for, together. My husband knows me better than I even know myself sometimes. And I am the same with him. In that sense, we ARE one with each other. We made the choice to be only with each other, and we are holding to that. 



sisters359 said:


> How we THINK about things determines how we feel. If people step back from this type of thinking, or they never had such thinking in the first place, betrayal and/or divorce are sad and difficult, but they are *not* the end of the world.


You're right. It isn't the end of the world. But the hurt you feel from that betrayal FEELS like the end of the world at the time. And, you end up carrying that into the next relationship. More times than not, I have seen this happen. Personally, I would rather feel the hurt than live a life with no feeling. IMO, that is what it amounts to. You end up with a jaded view of life that everyone will betray you at some point, and it keeps you from truly enjoying life. How can you truly be happy in another relationship (if you choose to be in one), if you just "know" they will betray you at any time? I'll keep my idealistic view, thanks anyway.



sisters359 said:


> It is a choice, to believe such a thing or not to believe it, to suffer such pain or not to suffer it. Change your thinking, and change how you see the event and how you experience the aftermatch.


And this last part... IDK, it sounds almost like saying "oh, just let it go and forget it ever happened". Really? Rug sweep it? Doing that only makes the problems worse.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

When the cheating is a result of continued, long term rejection from a cold fish, sexually deceased spouse?

Yep, I sure do.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

jaquen said:


> When the cheating is a result of continued, long term rejection from a cold fish, sexually deceased spouse?
> 
> Yep, I sure do.


an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

anonim said:


> an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


The question posed in the OP was do you "sympathize" with a cheater. The question was not do you "condone" cheating in a marriage.

If that were the question it would have yielded a different answer.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Lon said:


> Funny, I tend to think of myself as first category because I was never tempted to cheat.
> 
> However, using some logic and practical thinking I think EVERYONE will cheat given the right circumstances so really there are only two types of people: Those whom have been under the circumstances that lead to cheating and those whom have not.
> 
> ...


There are individuals who because of upbringing and environment will not cheat at all that is a fact and the opposite side of the spectrum we have those who will and those who will only need an excuse. If you are wish to assert the belief that all humans are capable of it than you are correct in that regard but you'd have to be willing to than say that all humans are capable of not cheating and that all humans are capable of being rapist, murderers and that most people will rape and murder if given the opportunity under set circumstances. 

So i am not really sure where you are coming from.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Goldmember357 said:


> There are individuals who because of upbringing and environment will not cheat at all that is a fact and the opposite side of the spectrum we have those who will and those who will only need an excuse. If you are wish to assert the belief that all humans are capable of it than you are correct in that regard but you'd have to be willing to than say that all humans are capable of not cheating and that all humans are capable of being rapist, murderers and that *most people will rape and murder if given the opportunity* under set circumstances.
> 
> So i am not really sure where you are coming from.


Yes I am still under the philosophy that everybody has it within them to do horrible things, and even the ideal upbringing and environment does not make one immune. Otherwise how could world wars happen? Find me one person in this world that is sinless.

However, by your wording in the last sentence I think you are misconstruing my comment - I don't know where the word "opportunity" entered into this - I think for some cheaters like you have in mind this may be applicable, but it's not like all people are driven by deviousness and that as soon as they are not kept in check they will do something wicked. Its really all just the permutations and combinations of our species' nature, in my opinion at least.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> This is what I'm talking about. It is simply unrealistic and fanciful thinking to believe you can be "one" with another.
> 
> How we THINK about things determines how we feel. If people step back from this type of thinking, or they never had such thinking in the first place, betrayal and/or divorce are sad and difficult, but they are *not* the end of the world.
> 
> It is a choice, to believe such a thing or not to believe it, to suffer such pain or not to suffer it. Change your thinking, and change how you see the event and how you experience the aftermatch.


Well I'm not going to apologize that I had romantic notions of relationships and marriage. Before I would have said you were just jaded, and now I'm right there with you - I am coming to believe that marriage really is a cruel joke. That there really is nothing transcendent about the committment to each other when you make vows before god and family, it is really just two people deluding themselves into a fake reality whereby magical things will come to them.

So yes you are completely right, you can never be "one" with another that's phooey - but I had to learn the painful way because I DID believe it and so I made the betrayal a real thing, just as every other betrayed spouse made it real because they too were hopeless romantics who thought there really was something spiritually significant about marriage. Nope guess you are right, marriage is just a legal arrangement, nothing special about it.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

jaquen said:


> The question posed in the OP was do you "sympathize" with a cheater. The question was not do you "condone" cheating in a marriage.
> 
> If that were the question it would have yielded a different answer.


true. I have a hard time seeing a difference sometimes.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

jaquen said:


> The question posed in the OP was do you "sympathize" with a cheater. The question was not do you "condone" cheating in a marriage.
> 
> If that were the question it would have yielded a different answer.


:iagree: BRAVO BRAVO.. WELL SAID.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Okay, I'm wondering if I'm changing my views on some of this... as I think about it.,... 
I know this wasn't really the OP's question, but I do not feel that "once a cheater always a cheater".

I think people learn from their mistakes. Big mistakes, little mistakes... They all learn. Some learn to be remoseful & to not do something again.. Others just learn to be more crafty in covering up wrong doings.

That is why you scold a child. You want them to learn what is right and wrong. At a certain age/ maturity, one has to deal with scolding themselves... live with the consequences of their actions.. learn to do better, learn to treat others better.

I do feel that the younger a person is, it is easier for them to modify their behaviors. ie: someone that cheated on a boyfriend at age of 22... is much different from the situation of a lady who has cheated on 10+ people, been divorced 3 times, and is constantly not modifying any cheating behaviors. THAT I do not sympathize with.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

It is interesting because the main categories here are 
(1) people who were cheated on, and were absolutely devastated.
(2) people who were not cheated on, but hold a firm view against cheating.
(3) people who cheated, and now are saying cheating is never right and never deserve sympathy. 

Only a handful of people (who were never cheated on or cheated) are saying they can feel sympathy or it depends on circumstances. 

So I belong to another category. I cheated. I DO hold a firm view against cheating. I am remorseful. 

But I still insist it depends on the individual's situation. All the people screaming "absolutely not forgivable" have a reason for their view, but life is not that simple. 

My marriage is by no means perfect, but our hope is it will get better and better. 20 years is a long time and I have never felt so sure I want to keep working on it. 

When we are not mature enough, some lessons just cannot be learned. I learnt mine the hard way. Yet we came out much stronger. 

To be fair...if you ask my h how he feels...of course he wishes the same as I do, which is we wish IT HAD NEVER HAPPENED. But it did. He was not devastated (I was the one contemplating suicide and got the injections ready). He tried to work it out. We were both so young. It's amazing what life dealt us...

And to be yet more fair...if you ask me how I would feel if my h cheated...I would be TREMENDOUSLY hurt. But I would want to ask, WHY? I would want to ask, can we still make it? I would not just say "not tolerable" and walk out the door. And if I never did what I did, I would not be able to say that. 

Because now I know. Sometimes the WS still loves the BS, and vice versa. No matter how everyone's saying here if you love someone, you don't cheat. If you plan to cheat, just divorce. If if if....

I AM NOT ENDORSING CHEATING. 

And finally, no, once a cheater always a cheater is not true.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

^ I don't think anyone said that cheating is not forgivable - just that they don't sympathize with cheaters. 

A lot of the excuses/reasons for cheating that have been given on this thread, can also be applied for car thefts and other crimes but they'd be found absurd. Yes, it's not always quick and easy to get a divorce if you want out of your unsatisfying marriage. However, it's not always quick and easy to do other things in life like get a prestigious job - that doesn't mean you commit fraud and lie about your credentials. You either go to a good school and earn the creds the right way or you work in a mediocre job. 

It's not always easy to buy a house but you can't just walk in to someone else's house and take it over. It's not always easy to buy a car either but you can't just go and steal one and so on. 

Cheating may be forgivable and no, I don't believe that, "Once a cheater always a cheater." is always true. However, there is no real justification for it that makes it right or okay to do.

You had a choice to get married and you have a choice to undo that marriage and finally you have a choice to cheat. You might not like the process, the time, the money it takes to undo your marriage the right way but the option to divorce or not to cheat is still there nonetheless. 

Cheating is not something I sympathize with but I could potentially forgive and no matter how likely I am to never sympathize with it - to try to understand. JMO.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

cheaters have no soul and forever indulge in corruption and the mental disorder that allows cheating to come to be. funny i mention soul though when their is no evidence of a soul. however if one exists i think cheaters are missing that.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

i do not understand my fellow man what is it that drives them to destroy themselves and live in suffering nothing but pain. I suppose in the future there will be less of this we will advance so its only time.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

gbrad said:


> I have never been on either side, but for years I have felt that I would sympathize with the cheater. Not in all situations, but in some I can understand their side. People keep saying that cheaters have excuses, I think some are legitimate reasons, not excuses.
> They want or need to be with someone else, but leaving the spouse first is not always the most practical thing to do. Yes, I base marital decisions greatly off of practicality and logic, not necessarily of the heart and emotion. People are not always in the best of situations, but they still want to be and should try to be happy while they are in them. Timing in life is never perfect.


This kind of "reasoning" is why many affairs occur. Selfish peolple who believe that they are entitled to be happy at the expense of other people's happyness.

I cannot at all sympathize with this kind of entitlement and self righteousness.

I am capable of empathizing with people who make a mistake, regret it and learn something from it and then try to make amends.


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## Hamster2 (Aug 6, 2012)

Hell no!!!!

The person made a decision to do it, therefore no excuses for it. Get out of the relationship before hurting people more than what comes with separation/divorce.

In the case of my wife, she gave me a list, longer than my arm, as to why she lied and cheated on me. In the end, she said she gave up on me, on us, and just took the easy way out.

So, hell no. I still stick to the concept of once a cheater, always a cheater. A lot of things were chattered by her actions: trust, honesty, dependability, our marriage, family life, etc... But the biggest damage will be on our little one.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

Look if you aeleaving someone to be withsomeone else, that is cheating to. but people sympathize with that because they had enough respect to leave the person before actualy doing it even though the intention was there....

sympathy can be packed in a box with just about anything.

the complication of this do you/dont you makes no difference. if that is the case i cant sympathize with some moron who got into a car accident ad is icu because they were yapping on a darn cell phone, because its stupid, yet they madethat choice. but life is a choice every minute.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> I don't like it when the Betrayed Spouse acts like s/he did nothing to contribute to the decline of the marriage. I firmly believe that HAPPILY married people don't cheat. Acting like the cheating is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to someone, like the cheater is somehow the world's worst person or lowest scum of the earth--that bothers me a lot. There are many things worse than cheating--abusing others, esp. children, for example.
> 
> But the cheater has made a choice to cheat vs. get out of the marriage, and that's cowardly. I don't have any sympathy for that, either.


What about cannibals? let us keep to the topic here please


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

I will never sympathize with a cheater.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

No I do not sympathize with a cheater. But I do give kudos to those one time cheaters that change the life.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

jane1213 said:


> Been once a cheater myself and knowing some of my girlfriends who once cheated on their spouses, i do truly sympathize with the people who cheat.
> 
> I think the " once a cheater is always a cheater" doesn't apply to everyone.
> 
> ...


No


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## Oregondaddy (Feb 10, 2012)

Oh I sure do. I have never cheated mind you, but I do know people that have. Some were clearly wrong for doing it, but one case in particular involving an alcoholic abusive porn watching spouse.. yep, met someone nice, had an affair, the marriage ended and they wound up getting married. If one spouse has so damaged the relationship that it is unsalvagable.. then I would say yes...


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Well, depends. 

Like for you, I don't feel an ounce of sorry for you. You just went out, and cheated. 

What do you expect people to say? "Oh, of course you would go and have an affair, you were stressed out, and you couldn't just go to your husband. You were right to go have an affair." 

I understand why it may happen, but I won't feel sorry unless there is a really good reason. 
Like, a wife cheating on a husband that abuses her. (but I will wonder why she married an abuser, assuming he was like that before the marriage)
Or, you married and your wife hasn't touched you in 20 years. And you feel rejected, and unloved, unwanted, resented, yes, I can understand it more there, and even feel sorry. But if you didn't talk about, nope. 

It really depends on the situation though. 
Did you talk about it with your spouse? 
Or did you simply run away and deal with whatever problem you were facing by having sex with a stranger?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Oregondaddy said:


> Oh I sure do. I have never cheated mind you, but I do know people that have. Some were clearly wrong for doing it, but one case in particular involving an alcoholic abusive porn watching spouse.. yep, met someone nice, had an affair, the marriage ended and they wound up getting married. If one spouse has so damaged the relationship that it is unsalvagable.. then I would say yes...


Why did it require cheating for this neglected abused spouse to get out of the bad marriage?


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