# I just realized that I am Lon Hamilton



## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

I watched The Notebook this weekend for the first time. I have seen it in bits and pieces over the years, but this was the first time I saw the whole thing. (I'll admit to a bit of a crush on Rachel McAdams, which is what compelled me to sit through it.)

In the film, Allie (McAdams and later, Gena Rowlands) has a first love with Noah (Ryan Gosling/James Garner). There is a passion between them, but things don't quite work out in part because they are from two different worlds. They are young and life intervenes. Her mother doesn't approve of Noah and undermines their relationship.

Years later, Allie falls in love with Lon Hamilton, Jr., "perfect husband material." Allie says she loves Lon and Lon clearly loves Allie. He is respectful, concerned, caring, and has a bright future. On the eve of their wedding, Allie goes to see Noah and they fall into a fling. Despite that fling, Noah loves Allie and wants to make things work. He is hurt, but understanding. He is innocent in that he only wants her to be happy. Allie still chooses Noah.

I am Lon. My fiancee went to see her first love and they succumbed to their mutual desire, only two weeks before our wedding. She confessed, we cried together and talked through it, despite being hundreds of miles apart. She was so sorry and said she chose me. She knew I was the better man and the one for her. We went through with the wedding.

35 years later and the situation still hurts and haunts me. Watching the movie I realized that, like Lon Hamilton, I was the safe choice. The better "husband material." But not the one who stirred her passion. I believe she loves me and even that she knows she chose the better man, but I can't help but feel like I have always been practical.

Have any of you felt the same way?


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## GutShot7 (Aug 2, 2020)

I chose practical without the passion for marriage. Many years later I'm working hard to make the practical work and wish I had the passion. Practical is nice until it isn't enough or isn't working, in the end there isn't passion to fall back on.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think it’s unkind to say your the safe and practical choice. You were the better choice. 

Marriage and relationships are more than sex and passion. She would not have choose you if you guys had NO passion. 

From my experience, the men I had more passion and the best sex with are men that I don’t get along with in real life.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

GutShot7 said:


> I chose practical without the passion for marriage. Many years later I'm working hard to make the practical work and wish I had the passion. Practical is nice until it isn't enough or isn't working, in the end there isn't passion to fall back on.


I am with you. The practical hasn't worked and the lack of passion exacerbates the loneliness. Passion naturally wanes in most marriages, but it would be nice to be able to look back fondly on what used to be.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

No, because I try my best to take the role of Noah in every relationship regardless of my financial standing. Attraction by security is too dangerous for long-term prospects and needs to be secluded as long as possible without being dishonest.

Every relationship I had, excluding some casual ones, has hence been driven by raw passion. I also wouldn't have it any other way.

Noah and Allie got along because they were romantics.
Lon and Allie's mother however, would have been a great match.

It's simple compatibility.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> I think it’s unkind to say your the safe and practical choice. You were the better choice.
> 
> Marriage and relationships are more than sex and passion. She would not have choose you if you guys had NO passion.
> 
> From my experience, the men I had more passion and the best sex with are men that I don’t get along with in real life.


Thank you. I am not sure it is even about sex. I think it has always been about the "specialness" of our connection. I used to think it was special and thought she did too.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> No, because I try my best to take the role of Noah in every relationship regardless of my financial standing. Attraction by security is too dangerous for long-term prospects and needs to be secluded as long as possible without being dishonest.
> 
> Every relationship I had, excluding some casual ones, has hence been driven by raw passion. I also wouldn't have it any other way.
> 
> ...


Isn't trying to take the role of Noah creating an artificial construct? Either you are Noah or you aren't. Right?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

First off, that movie sucks. It romanticizes infidelity. 

The day after I proposed, my wife ran off to **** someone else because she wanted him. She begged him to change so that he'd be a better choice. Later, when she said "I do", it was with another man's cum dripping out of her. She just _had _to have another round (two, actually) with loverboy. She wanted to change her mind about marrying me and, once again, begged him to change so that he'd be a better choice. She would have picked him if he wasn't a drunk, pill-popping cocaine addict. 

Allegedly she feels nothing for him anymore. So your wife has someone in her past that at one point "stirred her passion"... Just because it was that way 35+ years ago doesn't mean those feelings are still there. 

Passion goes beyond hot, steamy sex. If you want to improve that part of your marriage then do something about it and stick with it. Be playful with her, write her a love letter, plan a surprise for her, be emotionally vulnerable, etc. If you want to be that guy, then be that guy.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

aaronj said:


> Isn't trying to take the role of Noah creating an artificial construct? Either you are Noah or you aren't. Right?


Noah is a fictional character in a story with one ending. However as with many aspects of life, nothing is fully black and white. 

I am Noah who had achieved the financial success of Lon over years of hard work. As such, the options were wide open for women of Allie's likeness, as well as women of her mother's likeness.

As Noah, I would prefer women of Allie's likeness, as I too, am a romantic, and finances has always ever been a means to an end. My approach has proven favorable, as unlike the movie, the world has been struck with a pandemic that this year has shattered my business completely. I am now surviving and studying to change my industry as my industry will not recover for the next few years and perhaps may never recover, the opportunity cost of that being too much for my family to bear. Yet, my Allie loves me the same and does not waver.

Passion aside, it's only practical to be Noah.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

bobert said:


> First off, that movie sucks. It romanticizes infidelity.
> 
> The day after I proposed, my wife ran off to **** someone else because she wanted him. She begged him to change so that he'd be a better choice. Later, when she said "I do", it was with another man's cum dripping out of her. She just _had _to have another round (two, actually) with loverboy. She wanted to change her mind about marrying me and, once again, begged him to change so that he'd be a better choice. She would have picked him if he wasn't a drunk, pill-popping cocaine addict.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Sounds like our paths have been similar. I appreciate your suggestions.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

By the way, Lon was a doormat and forgave her. Don't be like Lon, except for the aspect of security.
My 'Allie' also agrees, Lon deserves better, so do you.

One aspect of me that isn't Noah, nor Lon, is the aspect of revenge.

What you should have done:


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> By the way, Lon was a doormat and forgave her. Don't be like Lon, except for the aspect of security.
> My 'Allie' also agrees, Lon deserves better, so do you.
> 
> One aspect of me that isn't Noah, nor Lon, is the aspect of revenge.
> ...


The whole point is that I was Lon 35 years ago. I have been living with the aftermath ever since. What I should have done then is moot.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

aaronj said:


> The whole point is that I was Lon 35 years ago. I have been living with the aftermath ever since. What I should have done then is moot.


Sadly the consequence of your decision I'm afraid, but it does not mean all hope is lost, and 35 years is a long time to bear a wound unhealed.

How is your marriage? What brings you here?


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Sadly the consequence of your decision I'm afraid, but it does not mean all hope is lost, and 35 years is a long time to bear a wound unhealed.
> 
> How is your marriage? What brings you here?


My marriage is on rocky shoals and has been for years. Lots of background that won't fit in this thread. It started with what happened before our marriage and was always there, lurking in the background. At almost 60 I am trying to better understand my life, my marriage, and who I am.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

aaronj said:


> My marriage is on rocky shoals and has been for years. Lots of background that won't fit in this thread. It started with what happened before our marriage and was always there, lurking in the background. At almost 60 I am trying to better understand my life, my marriage, and who I am.


Well, looks like we are very different men, and our life choices along with how our paths played out reflect that. I can never be in your position.
I can only share my perspective in this instance, that a marriage or relationship require standards to uphold, standards of trust and passion being two of many aspects that can not be compromised, with trust only holding meaning when it is 100%, and meaningless if it is anything less. I also hold that sometimes it is best to let some things go, rather than to hold on to what I would consider... nothing.

Just two cents from the other side of the shore.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Well, looks like we are very different men, and our life choices along with how our paths played out reflect that. I can never be in your position.
> I can only share my perspective in this instance, that a marriage or relationship require standards to uphold, standards of trust and passion being two of many aspects that can not be compromised, with trust only holding meaning when it is 100%, and meaningless if it is anything less. I also hold that sometimes it is best to let some things go, rather than to hold on to what I would consider... nothing.
> 
> Just two cents from the other side of the shore.


Thanks.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

aaronj said:


> My marriage is on rocky shoals and has been for years. Lots of background that won't fit in this thread. It started with what happened before our marriage and was always there, lurking in the background. At almost 60 I am trying to better understand my life, my marriage, and who I am.



So at 60 your saying that you would rather stay with her than move on and find new love with the time you have left.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Kind of really sucks to look back and see that the only reason she married you is because you were the safe bet.

You should have never married the cheater. What a way to mess up an entire life.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Separate question....when you came to that realize after watching the notebook did you bring this up to your wife? And if you did what did she say?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> I watched The Notebook this weekend for the first time. I have seen it in bits and pieces over the years, but this was the first time I saw the whole thing. (I'll admit to a bit of a crush on Rachel McAdams, which is what compelled me to sit through it.)
> 
> In the film, Allie (McAdams and later, Gena Rowlands) has a first love with Noah (Ryan Gosling/James Garner). There is a passion between them, but things don't quite work out in part because they are from two different worlds. They are young and life intervenes. Her mother doesn't approve of Noah and undermines their relationship.
> 
> ...


Yep.

Lon was lucky, Allie is an asshole who belongs with Noah. That move is gross by the way Noah is a stalker and kind of an asshole. I watched and liked that movie when it first came out, now I agree with this take. A girl like Allie is a trap. She belongs with Noah. Lon need a better class of women. Allie is a cheating ****.

Imagine if these two people didn't look like Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams? They would just be two sleazy cheaters then. Besides that, in real life Allie gets bored in about 10 years when all the drama is gone and cheats on Noah too. Hell she probably cheats with Lon, who by that time has wised up and is using her. Then Noah kill her and her lover and ends up in jail, or he drinks himself to death. And their poor kids. Lon marries a trophy wife and has a happy life making lots of money and playing golf. Stop using Hollywood make believe as your barometer, it makes about is much sense as "some day my prince will come." The only way this could ever work is in someones imagination.

In real life poor Lon marries Allie, and mistakenly thinks he has a catch. At least for a while when he is young. Sigh... 

What does your wife say to all this? You have talked to her right? Doesn't seem right 35 years later you are suffering and she walks around like it doesn't matter, when she caused it.

Now you realize if you left your wife then you would become the lost love of her life, not this dude she couldn't have. Because is always about what they can't have with these nitwits. You want to stir her passion tell her your leaving. She will get passionate really quick a guarantee.

Unfortunately man you chose your destiny 35 years ago. You may feel like she feels like she settled, but I think your issue is you know in your heart you did. That is what this is really about. You picked the safe choose too. It's hard to see this when you are so young and are 2 weeks from the wedding.

I see your 60. I think it's time to tell your wife how you feel, and it's not that your Lon, it's that you are Noah but you settled like Lon would have. But first it's time to be honest with yourself, you picked this. Again it's understandable but it WAS your choice.

35 years of suffering, hope she has felt it too, I mean it's only fair. Tell her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> The whole point is that I was Lon 35 years ago. I have been living with the aftermath ever since. What I should have done then is moot.


I assume you are still breathing? Life is about living it. Maybe you should go find some passion.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Lostinthought61 said:


> So at 60 your saying that you would rather stay with her than move on and find new love with the time you have left.


I have no interest in finding new love. If I leave my wife it will not be for that.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

ABHale said:


> Kind of really sucks to look back and see that the only reason she married you is because you were the safe bet.
> 
> You should have never married the cheater. What a way to mess up an entire life.


Thanks for the timely advice.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Separate question....when you came to that realize after watching the notebook did you bring this up to your wife? And if you did what did she say?


It just happened yesterday and she is out of town. I guess what triggered me is the realization that Lon was completely undeserving of that treatment. In a lot of these kinds of movies, the Lon character has some sort of flaw, too self-absorbed, too uptight, or even a cheater behind her back. In this case, Lon was loving and caring; a good man.

We have had many conversations (and even attempts at discussing it in marriage counseling) and her inability to explain to me why she went to him is what still eats at me. She still hangs onto "I don't know why." All these years later I am not sure she really does know anymore. But I suspect the real answer is something she thinks would hurt me even more.

My theories:
1. She went to him in a last ditch effort to get him to talk her out of marrying me and rekindling their relationship
2. She did it and told me so I would call off the wedding for her, only I didn't follow the script.

She swears neither of these is true, but can't supply a plausible alternative.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Now you realize if you left your wife then you would become the lost love of her life, not this dude she couldn't have. Because is always about what they can't have with these nitwits. You want to stir her passion tell her your leaving. She will get passionate really quick a guarantee.


You are correct, I know she now sees me as the love of her life and the far superior choice. But that has only come into focus in the past 8-9 years.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Arronj, unfortunately you took her back when she went to him all these years ago....you could have walked away from her and no one woudl have been against you, no one would have thought less of you. Not sure if you have kids but i have girls and i have told them over and over again the minute some one shows you disrespect that is a red flag to move on. She demonstrated to you one hell of a disrespect but you took her back and she knows that.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

aaronj said:


> It just happened yesterday and she is out of town. I guess what triggered me is the realization that Lon was completely undeserving of that treatment. In a lot of these kinds of movies, the Lon character has some sort of flaw, too self-absorbed, too uptight, or even a cheater behind her back. In this case, Lon was loving and caring; a good man.


Except you chose this for yourself, in the face of knowing what she did yet you still married her. So given that you chose this, you are entirely responsible for your own choice. So you got exactly what you deserved as chosen by you.

So instead of trying to sit in the victim chair, in which you don't belong. You would do well to stand up and accept complete responsibility for what happened to you, since you chose exactly what you got.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

aaronj said:


> Thanks for the timely advice.


It is more for those that just got cheated on.Your FU marriage is a great example of why you don’t marry someone that has cheated on you.

Advice for you is this. Why in the heck would you spend the rest of your life with a woman that has made it into a living hell?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> It just happened yesterday and she is out of town. I guess what triggered me is the realization that Lon was completely undeserving of that treatment. In a lot of these kinds of movies, the Lon character has some sort of flaw, too self-absorbed, too uptight, or even a cheater behind her back. In this case, Lon was loving and caring; a good man.
> 
> We have had many conversations (and even attempts at discussing it in marriage counseling) and her inability to explain to me why she went to him is what still eats at me. She still hangs onto "I don't know why." All these years later I am not sure she really does know anymore. But I suspect the real answer is something she thinks would hurt me even more.
> 
> ...


There is an important truth here that all of us who have been cheated on come to understand. They do it because they can and they want to. It would serve you well to not look for her to give you an explanation but to believe what I just wrote. Though your heart wants to hear it there is nothing she could say that will make this better. It was a monstrously selfish and destructive thing to do. She did it because she was selfish and in the moment if fell good to her. She choose the feeling over you and your relationship even though she knew you would be married in 2 weeks. It may even be that is why she did it. Like that guy who has sex at his bachelor party. One last fling. Does that make it any easier?

That's it man. Never going to be anything else then that. It's not family situation or something you did, nope. The reason I know this is because there are plenty of others who have had worse situations then your wife or at least as bad and they didn't do it. Nope your wife did a very evil thing that day because she wanted too. 

You fall into the category that lots of men (and sometime women) do who come on here after staying with a cheater long term. I find long term the problem really isn't the cheating it the person not coming to terms and accepting who it is they are married to and more so the ****ty deal they took to stay. That is what you need to work on. You need to accept that this is your life, these were you choices and most of all this is your wife. Either you can work with that, or you need to leave. It's silly to be miserable all the time though. Again it's your life, you only get one.

By the way Lon is not a good guy, he should have dumped wishy-washy Allie right when she showed signs of what an asshole she was. Instead he allowed himself to be abused by her. He is not a good guy but he damn sure is a nice one. 

That whole movie is a great example of a toxic people, not some great love affair. None of the characters have a lot of character. 

Noah is a gross stalker, and would never make a good husband.
Allie should have dumped Lon as soon as she knew she had mixed feelings, she was not ready to be married, nope just a cheating asshole, and no catch. 
And Lon is unassertive in ineffectual enough to allow himself to be abused by a real jerk.

It's a fairy tale because in real life none of these people would have good long term relationships until they fix their ****. Besides love doesn't work like that. It's can be like that for seasons but a lot of it is washing dirty underwear and working long nights at a job you hate just to pay for the roof over your families head. People who expect their marriage to be like this movie are going to be disappointed. Again you can have moments but eventually you have to make them. The initial moments that are like that is because your brain is sending you dopamine to get you to mate to propagate the species.

Again lets talk about real life and your future with this women since you are determined to stay. Real life is you have 30 year invested and this is the person you will be waking up to for the foreseeable future, how do you make that work? How is your marriage now? How has this all played out? What have you said about this? Does she know how unhappy you are? Sounds like it. What is her response? Maybe it's possible for you to get her to be intensely into you now? Maybe it's not about that but something else. Whatever it is this is about you, especially if your choice is to stay.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> My theories:
> 1. She went to him in a last ditch effort to get him to talk her out of marrying me and rekindling their relationship
> 2. She did it and told me so I would call off the wedding for her, only I didn't follow the script.


If either of those two things are true then you shouldn't look at that as a gauge on your worth but a testament to how screwed up she was. No one who is emotionally sound marries someone if they have these questions. That's the thing, this is not your problem. Presumably you built a great life with her, the problem is that you are trouble by the fact that you might have settled and married someone who had these questions, and worst still cheated.

That is what you need to work on, that is where you are going to fine peace. Trying to understand why she was so screwed up is a ghost chase that isn't going to make your suffering go away, and again it's really not the issue. Figure out and come to terms with your choice then decide how you move forward.

So many times people in your situation think that their cheating spouse is the path out of the suffering. They arern't. The path out is understanding yourself and your choices. The cheating spouse is who they are, flawed and most of the time not a very good choice for a mate. One more time she didn't settle, you did.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

aaronj said:


> You are correct, I know she now sees me as the love of her life and the far superior choice. But that has only come into focus in the past 8-9 years.


And why isn't this good enough for you? You are THE LOVE OF HER LIFE...that's pretty special after 35 years!!!

I want you to know that I am completely different than what others have said on here - the "safe", stable guy is the man who allows me to relax and feel passion for him, and the more I trust and get to know him, the MORE passionate and excited I feel about him. So don't think safe always equals boring. Your wife might regret what happened and be thrilled that she was able to marry the man who became the love of her life, and not the loser she made a mistake with.

Also, don't think that the details of your marriage being "on the rocks" are too much for this thread (or ANY thread on this site)...THAT is what this site is for, and that's how you will get the best insight and advice from tons of different people in similar (and different!) situations -- posting all your details!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

In one of the posts you mentioned that now your wife considers YOU the love of her life. So, she did move on from the other guy. You did not. does she know that you are still hurt and bothered by her action 30 years ago? what does she say? 

Can the two of you have a heart to heart conversation about this? You need it because you are stuck with it. It happened 30 years ago, you've married her, created life with her. You can not undo it, that's your reality. So try to face it. It's been long time ago, you both are different people today.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> And why isn't this good enough for you? You are THE LOVE OF HER LIFE...that's pretty special after 35 years!!!
> 
> I want you to know that I am completely different than what others have said on here - the "safe", stable guy is the man who allows me to relax and feel passion for him, and the more I trust and get to know him, the MORE passionate and excited I feel about him. So don't think safe always equals boring. Your wife might regret what happened and be thrilled that she was able to marry the man who became the love of her life, and not the loser she made a mistake with.
> 
> Also, don't think that the details of your marriage being "on the rocks" are too much for this thread (or ANY thread on this site)...THAT is what this site is for, and that's how you will get the best insight and advice from tons of different people in similar (and different!) situations -- posting all your details!


I am also assuming you didn't cheat on this guy 2 weeks before you were married right?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> I am also assuming you didn't cheat on this guy 2 weeks before you were married right?


No. And I know what you are saying, and you are right, mostly. 
But people make mistakes...especially young people, but ALL people do - it's part of being human. And the time for his discontent over this was 35 years ago, not now. Right now, he HAS what he wants (barring some other marriage details that he hasn't shared)...I'm just trying to point that out.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

LisaDiane said:


> No. And I know what you are saying, and you are right, mostly.
> But people make mistakes...especially young people, but ALL people do - it's part of being human. And the time for his discontent over this was 35 years ago, not now. Right now, he HAS what he wants (barring some other marriage details that he hasn't shared)...I'm just trying to point that out.


I'm with you on it. we posted at the same time


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

WandaJ said:


> I'm with you on it. we posted at the same time


You know what they say about GREAT MINDS thinking alike...!!!! 💜


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> No. And I know what you are saying, and you are right, mostly.
> But people make mistakes...especially young people, but ALL people do - it's part of being human. And the time for his discontent over this was 35 years ago, not now. Right now, he HAS what he wants (barring some other marriage details that he hasn't shared)...I'm just trying to point that out.


Lol cheating on him two weeks before the wedding isn't exactly a 'mistake' that is easily forgivable 😂

Nor should it be


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

LOL to all the people that think he gets to be the love of her life now....I wonder how you'd view your significant other if you heard they plowed somebody prior to saying "I do. Now wear this silver medal!" 

And beating you with a 2x4, and screaming over the internet "WHAT KIND OF FOOL STILL GETS MARRIED TO SOMEONE THAT CHEATED ON THEM?!" isn't really productive. 

So, I see this thread going in 2 directions.
Firstly, people arguing how can you possibly be the love of her life, and that will be talked about for probably 5 pages. (we've already started!)

Second will be divorce. And here, you have two options: Move past this, or Revenge with poverty. 
And my honest advice would be move past this, realize you're her second best, and deal with it accordingly. Whether that be drinking, or passive-aggressive reactions, or self-deprecating jokes that I'm always #2 (not saying this will be good for marriage, but this is what I likely would do in your shoes). And NOT divorce. Because you're in your 60's I read? So you've already built up the retirement nest egg, and are just working till that final end. A divorce will cut everything in half, if you're lucky. You might get unlucky and be stuck with a judge that gives your wife the lion's share of everything. Additionally, attorney fees and whatever else....If you were close to my age, I'd say divorce and run. But that ship has sailed. 
Option #2 is divorce, and realize that this will end in poverty (and like that parable or saying, when going for revenge, dig 2 graves, one for your victim and another for yourself). I've never known anyone to become richer after divorce, and since everything will be sliced in half, less attorney fees, and whatever else, that will probably take a chunk out of retirement. And you're 60, so you won't have much time to rebuild your wealth. And you won't have decades of work to recover. So...guess you get to enjoy the old DAD retirement plan (Death-at-Desk)
Unless you're crazy rich. 

Out of curiosity, are you leaning one way or the other?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> No. And I know what you are saying, and you are right, mostly.
> But people make mistakes...especially young people, but ALL people do - it's part of being human. And the time for his discontent over this was 35 years ago, not now. Right now, he HAS what he wants (barring some other marriage details that he hasn't shared)...I'm just trying to point that out.


In the same respect she poisoned the well. Lots of people will not get over it and for most people it's going to tarnish the relationship. As you say it's also part of being human. it seems very unfair to give her a pass on the monstrous thing she did based on the frailty of her humanity. This is something that would cause anyone to lose faith in their relationship and yet he is held accountable when the frailty of being human prevents him from overcoming it. He should not be held to a higher standard when he is not the one who did wrong here. He fulfilled his vow, he kept his word. She can have an affair and gets a pass because she is human. He can't get over it but doesn't? Well he is human too.

I also disagree that he has what he wants now, I agree this is what he thinks he wants but sadly I think what he really wants is to go back and make other choices. This is why arguing about how she feels about him now doesn't really matter. His problem is not that, his problem is how she felt then and that he chose to marry her anyway. This is what he regrets.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Lol cheating on him two weeks before the wedding isn't exactly a 'mistake' that is easily forgivable 😂
> 
> Nor should it be


Over 35 years ago..... lifetime


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> Over 35 years ago..... lifetime


Sounds to me more like it's been 35 years of bitterness and resentment growing. And it doesn't sound like OP has moved on. More like, OP is seeing things from his wife's POV. Which was, "I really want this other guy. So before my wedding, I'm going to bone the man I really want, and tell him this is the last chance to grow up, and be with me. And if he says yes, great! If he doesn't, I'll go back to my second choice, and get married" 
Then she told him, we can debate the reasons for why she did (was she scared she get caught? Did she truly feel guilty? whatever else) 

And he's realizing it. 

And while watching the Notebook it finally hit him hard like a brick, and was just a movie of his life. 

And if I were a guessing man, OP is looking at his life and is angry and disappointed at himself. And if he had the chance, he would redo most of his life. Like, not marrying his wife, and finding someone else.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Broken at 20 said:


> Sounds to me more like it's been 35 years of bitterness and resentment growing. And it doesn't sound like OP has moved on. More like, OP is seeing things from his wife's POV. Which was, "I really want this other guy. So before my wedding, I'm going to bone the man I really want, and tell him this is the last chance to grow up, and be with me. And if he says yes, great! If he doesn't, I'll go back to my second choice, and get married"
> Then she told him, we can debate the reasons for why she did (was she scared she get caught? Did she truly feel guilty? whatever else)
> 
> And he's realizing it.
> ...


I understand that. Of course, if he had a chance to re-do it he probably would chose different path. But he can not. and he has to face it, have THE TALK with his wife. And then he either can move on from it, or reconsider his future with the wife... Third option - do nothing, continue as is.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Lol cheating on him two weeks before the wedding isn't exactly a 'mistake' that is easily forgivable 😂
> 
> Nor should it be


RIGHT...and if it had just happened, I would be telling him NOT to marry her, for sure! And the other thing is, he DID forgive her.

But you skipped over the other part of my reply - the time for this was 35 years ago...I'm NOT going to recommend he feel bad for himself after a full lifetime together, when HE KNEW what she did BEFORE he married her, yet he's regretting it now...and when he says he knows she loves him very much.

But also like I said, he didn't really give us any more details about their marriage than just a few things - I could very well be completely off-base with what I think about her, depending on what else is going on, and has been going on all these years. I wanted to give him another perspective than he's a victim and in an unloving marriage. 

Not to mention, the movie that triggered these feelings in him is complete fantasy - NO ONE behaves the way the people in that movie did, it was the opposite of reality. So I just cannot applaud his sense of discontent, not without hearing more of what is going on in his marriage.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Broken at 20 said:


> Sounds to me more like it's been 35 years of bitterness and resentment growing. And it doesn't sound like OP has moved on. *More like, OP is seeing things from his wife's POV. Which was, "I really want this other guy. So before my wedding, I'm going to bone the man I really want, and tell him this is the last chance to grow up, and be with me. And if he says yes, great! If he doesn't, I'll go back to my second choice, and get married"*
> Then she told him, we can debate the reasons for why she did (was she scared she get caught? Did she truly feel guilty? whatever else)
> 
> And he's realizing it.
> ...


THIS!!!! THIS is what I was trying to combat with what I said to him. I don't think, just because it happened in "The Notebook", that this is how his wife felt when she cheated, NOR how she felt the whole time they have been married.

That's all I'm saying. And I could be wrong, if he ever returns to give us more details of their relationship. But MY theory IS also possible.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I have to be honest, I can't really fathom someone marrying just for practical reasons. It just seems bloodless to me. I do think it's possible to love two people, but cheating is an indicator it's not very deep love.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Thank you, everyone, for the thoughtful and thought-provoking posts. Here is what I am feeling in a nutshell:

1. I do have resentment toward my wife. Resentment that she wants us to drift happily together into that sweet, companionable relationship of our golden years, while I feel like I was robbed of all the stages of the relationship that would make such a period satisfying.

2. I am angry at my 23 year-old self for not having greater self-efficacy, but I also can see exactly why I reacted the way I did. First, I had just started my first job and was some 350 miles away. She had my car (another minor injury to insult--this was possible only because she had my car to drive to see him). I had no close friends nearby and no one to turn to for help in sorting out what was happening. This was pre-internet and when long distance calls were a luxury. I feared that if I confided in friends and family what happened and we did go ahead with the wedding, it would forever poison her relationship with them. I also felt strangely embarrassed by the whole thing. Who would want to admit that their fiancee would do such a thing only weeks before their wedding? I mistakenly thought it said something about me and my worth rather than about her character. She drove to see me the day it happened and cried and apologized profusely, saying she knew she wanted only me. I caved. In looking back at old letters from that time, I see that I was trying to convince her that I was worthy rather than expecting her to show me she was worthy.

3. There are other significant contributors to my resentment and frustration. Watching the movie just threw me back into those days and how Lon didn't deserve what he got. My post was a reaction to that rush of feelings.

4. After 35 years (36 next month), lives become entangled in ways that are hard to separate. Financially, it would be a significant hit to both of us. Splitting assets at this point would mean a major scale-back of retirement lifestyle for us both. Family relationships would be challenging, especially with our first grandchild on the scene. 

I appreciate everyone's perspectives. Thank you.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

LisaDiane said:


> RIGHT...and if it had just happened, I would be telling him NOT to marry her, for sure! And the other thing is, he DID forgive her.
> 
> But you skipped over the other part of my reply - the time for this was 35 years ago...I'm NOT going to recommend he feel bad for himself after a full lifetime together, when HE KNEW what she did BEFORE he married her, yet he's regretting it now...and when he says he knows she loves him very much.
> 
> ...


You're right. That movie is romantic fantasy. But I DID behave as Lon did. So that part rang true to me.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> I understand that. Of course, if he had a chance to re-do it he probably would chose different path. But he can not. and he has to face it, have THE TALK with his wife. And then he either can move on from it, or reconsider his future with the wife... Third option - do nothing, continue as is.


Thanks. I have had THE TALK with her. Many times. Just us. With a counselor. In letters. As I posted earlier, what gnaws at me is that she still can't tell me why she went to him. She can't or won't say what her intent was, so I have had to come up with my own theories.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> In the same respect she poisoned the well. Lots of people will not get over it and for most people it's going to tarnish the relationship. As you say it's also part of being human. it seems very unfair to give her a pass on the monstrous thing she did based on the frailty of her humanity. This is something that would cause anyone to lose faith in their relationship and yet he is held accountable when the frailty of being human prevents him from overcoming it. He should not be held to a higher standard when he is not the one who did wrong here. He fulfilled his vow, he kept his word. She can have an affair and gets a pass because she is human. He can't get over it but doesn't? Well he is human too.
> 
> *I also disagree that he has what he wants now, I agree this is what he thinks he wants but sadly I think what he really wants is to go back and make other choices. This is why arguing about how she feels about him now doesn't really matter. His problem is not that, his problem is how she felt then and that he chose to marry her anyway. This is what he regrets.*


You are reading way more into this situation than I got from what he said. Also, you are assuming alot more about what I'm thinking of this than what I meant to convey in my post and response to you. 

Just remember, I didn't give her a pass - HE DID. HE forgave her (I would not have). HE decided to marry her (I would not have). Also, I want to make sure that anyone reading my posts understands that I am absolutely NOT judging him for being unable to get over it, and I'm not holding him to a higher standard at all...that's what I mean by you are getting more out of my replies than what I mean.

Has she cheated any other times after that first time, AFTER their vows and marriage? He didn't mention it, but if she hasn't, AND she has made it clear to him that he is the LOVE OF HER LIFE, then I think he needs to NOT take his "feelings" about himself, her, and his marriage from a sappy, unrealistic romantic movie, and feel good about what it appears that he does have with her (based on the little that he has actually revealed) - which, again, if she hasn't cheated again (which means she didn't break her vows), might be ALOT and SPECIAL, if seen from different perspective (MY perspective).

As to what I bolded, you are right, I'm only bringing up the possibility that he already does have what he wants. And I completely agree with the rest of what you said in that paragraph - as usual, your insight and understanding about relationships is excellent!


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have to be honest, I can't really fathom someone marrying just for practical reasons. It just seems bloodless to me. I do think it's possible to love two people, but cheating is an indicator it's not very deep love.


I don't think she married me only for practical reasons, but I think that "practical" tipped the scale in my favor, so to speak. She referred to the other guy, her first love, as "crazy love." That, too, resonated with the characters in the movie. At least for me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I think it’s unkind to say your the safe and practical choice. You were the better choice.
> 
> Marriage and relationships are more than sex and passion. She would not have choose you if you guys had NO passion.
> 
> From my experience, the men I had more passion and the best sex with are men that I don’t get along with in real life.


People who have been in that situation know they were the better choice. But sometimes they don't feel it. And that's sometimes hard to deal with.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> THIS!!!! THIS is what I was trying to combat with what I said to him. I don't think, just because it happened in "The Notebook", that this is how his wife felt when she cheated, NOR how she felt the whole time they have been married.
> 
> That's all I'm saying. And I could be wrong, if he ever returns to give us more details of their relationship. But MY theory IS also possible.


I'm not arguing that your idea isn't impossible. I am merely stating how I imagine OP would be thinking/processing his wife's thought's process given the situation. And given that he seems very resentful, and my own tendencies of only seeing the worst in people, that's how you get my response. 

Hell, we could both be wrong and it's some crazy third option. 



aaronj said:


> 4. After 35 years (36 next month), lives become entangled in ways that are hard to separate. Financially, it would be a significant hit to both of us. Splitting assets at this point would mean a major scale-back of retirement lifestyle for us both. * Family relationships would be challenging, especially with our first grandchild on the scene. *
> 
> I appreciate everyone's perspectives. Thank you.


Which is something else I didn't even mention should you have taken the divorce route. How it would destroy relationships. 
Honestly, I think 95% of people would say it's better to stay married than divorce, and not just the romantic reasons some posters likely have of you being the one for 35 years (I would argue at best, 30 years, but that's neither here nor there). Practical reasons, like retirement, maintaining some sort of family structure, not having to deal with those problems at the holidays, etc., 
Sadly, this doesn't take away the pain. 
I WOULD suggest NOT drinking on the holidays to deal with the pain. It's what I do (but I spend my holidays alone) and it tends to turn one very...morose. 



aaronj said:


> Thanks. I have had THE TALK with her. Many times. Just us. With a counselor. In letters. As I posted earlier, what gnaws at me is that she still can't tell me why she went to him. *She can't or won't say what her intent was, so I have had to come up with my own theories.*


I have a feeling this is the part that twists inside you. 

The answer could be as simple as "He was hot, I was horny, and you were away." 
Could be as complicated and manipulative as she hedged her bets, thinking she could have her fun, maybe she never planned on telling you or believed you would take her back, so she wanted to have fun, and got it. 

And those are two ideas I've come up with in 5 minutes. I imagine you have hundreds more, some far simpler, others far worse/darker than most could imagine, because you've had 35 years to ponder this. And the lack of answer doesn't help. And sadly, after 35 years, I doubt you're going to get one.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

aaronj said:


> I don't think she married me only for practical reasons, but I think that "practical" tipped the scale in my favor, so to speak. She referred to the other guy, her first love, as "crazy love." That, too, resonated with the characters in the movie. At least for me.


Out of curiosity, and with decades of experience to look back, after she cheated on you, was she a: 
Better than you expected her to be Spouse? 
What you expected spouse? 
Worse than you expected spouse? 

And I would also ask you try to separate the above from the cheating aspect. There can be spouses that are faithful that hate sex, work, cooking, raising kids, and cleaning. 
So, excluding the cheating, did you maybe have a better marriage than your friends? Like, sex on demand, or an excellent chef that cooked all the meals, or someone who kept the house super clean, or took care of your entire social calendar, or someone that didn't hate you because your idea of a perfect Sunday was hot coffee, waffles with whipped cream, and a morning filled with football? (that last one is probably me projecting a bit)


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Broken at 20 said:


> Out of curiosity, and with decades of experience to look back, after she cheated on you, was she a:
> Better than you expected her to be Spouse?
> What you expected spouse?
> Worse than you expected spouse?
> ...


In looking back I can say that I put more into the relationship than I received. I have always been the giver. I don't really need her for anything. I am self-sufficient. She, on the other hand, needs me in order to make her life work. I am both a personal and professional mentor to her. If we were to divorce, I would be fine. She, however, would have her world turned upside down.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

aaronj said:


> Thank you, everyone, for the thoughtful and thought-provoking posts. Here is what I am feeling in a nutshell:
> 
> 1. I do have resentment toward my wife. Resentment that she wants us to drift happily together into that sweet, companionable relationship of our golden years, while I feel like I was robbed of all the stages of the relationship that would make such a period satisfying.


Yet you weren't robbed at all, you got exactly what you chose. You can't steal from yourself!

Honestly the only person you should resent over this is yourself, because your wife didn't make you choose what you chose. So I encourage you to have the decency, integrity and honesty to own your choices and not foist it upon your wife. So if you believe you are the decent guy that you think you are, why don't you actually try to live up to that, and be honest about the complete responsibility you have for choosing what you got.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Personal said:


> Yet you weren't robbed at all, you got exactly what you chose. You can't steal from yourself!
> 
> Honestly the only person you should resent over this is yourself, because your wife didn't make you choose what you chose. So I encourage you to have the decency, integrity and honesty to own your choices and not foist it upon your wife. So if you believe you are the decent guy that you think you are, why don't you actually try to live up to that, and be honest about the complete responsibility you have for choosing what you got.


You're right. And I admitted that I am angry at myself. Yet, I also believed (or wanted to believe) her when she swore how much she realized I was the guy. I now see that she was incapable of living up to what she told me. I misread the situation then. You can say that I shouldn't have been so gullible (duh). But that doesn't mean I wasn't robbed. It means I was naive, trusting, and lacking in self worth. Do I have no right to feelings of regret? My attempts to resolve my feelings are invalid?

And what, in your estimation, would it mean for me to "live up to that"? Just because watching a movie yesterday triggered some unresolved feelings doesn't mean I have absolved myself of all responsibility. I didn't ask anyone on this forum for advice. I merely asked if anyone else shared similar feelings to my own. 

I AM a decent guy. I have stood by her through challenges that many would have run away from. I have been a responsible father and husband. I have been a good and stable provider. I have never demanded anything from her that I, myself, would not be willing to give.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> Thanks. I have had THE TALK with her. Many times. Just us. With a counselor. In letters. As I posted earlier, what gnaws at me is that she still can't tell me why she went to him. She can't or won't say what her intent was, so I have had to come up with my own theories.


I gave you the best answer you are ever going to get. She is not going to tell you anything that is going to not make it suck or hurt any less.

You are doing exactly what you did two weeks before you got married. If this is you decision you should at least try to live with it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

aaronj said:


> But that doesn't mean I wasn't robbed. It means I was naive, trusting, and lacking in self worth. Do I have no right to feelings of regret? My attempts to resolve my feelings are invalid?


Of course you weren't robbed, you made your choice so there is no getting around that.



> And what, in your estimation, would it mean for me to "live up to that"?


Don't blame her at all for any of it, since you chose to accept it. Plus forgive yourself for the choices you have made.



> I didn't ask anyone on this forum for advice. I merely asked if anyone else shared similar feelings to my own.


Well I can't say I share similar feelings, since I have a tendency not to accept what you do.

For example as I was approaching my first wedding anniversary in my first marriage when I was 20 years old, I was away for a quite a while on a training course.

Shortly after my return I was met by my ex-wife, who quickly confessed that she got with another man at a party while I was away. Of which it is extremely likely I would have never found out about what she had chosen to do, absent her confession. She was extraordinarily sorry, she confessed as a consequence of feeling an enormous amount of guilt. She prostrated herself to me in every way imaginable and was willing to do whatever I wanted her to do.

Yet I would have none of it so I immediately ended our marital relationship, without hesitation for her egregious betrayal. Since I have always had zero tolerance for any betrayal or trespass against myself.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Personal said:


> Of course you weren't robbed, you made your choice so there is no getting around that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good for you. You did what I didn't have the clarity of mind or strength of conviction to do. I am glad it worked out for you, but I am not sure how your experience or your lack of tolerance for betrayal helps me now.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

sokillme said:


> I gave you the best answer you are ever going to get. She is not going to tell you anything that is going to not make it suck or hurt any less.
> 
> You are doing exactly what you did two weeks before you got married. If this is you decision you should at least try to live with it.


I don't disagree with you. Based on the posts I have seen I think you may come the closest to understanding what I have dealt with and what still haunts me. I am trying to live with it. Trying to live with something doesn't mean it is easy. 

I do appreciate your perspective.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> You're right. And I admitted that I am angry at myself. Yet, I also believed (or wanted to believe) her when she swore how much she realized I was the guy. I now see that she was incapable of living up to what she told me. I misread the situation then. You can say that I shouldn't have been so gullible (duh). But that doesn't mean I wasn't robbed. It means I was naive, trusting, and lacking in self worth. Do I have no right to feelings of regret? My attempts to resolve my feelings are invalid?
> 
> And what, in your estimation, would it mean for me to "live up to that"? Just because watching a movie yesterday triggered some unresolved feelings doesn't mean I have absolved myself of all responsibility. I didn't ask anyone on this forum for advice. I merely asked if anyone else shared similar feelings to my own.
> 
> I AM a decent guy. I have stood by her through challenges that many would have run away from. I have been a responsible father and husband. I have been a good and stable provider. I have never demanded anything from her that I, myself, would not be willing to give.


Dude you are going to find to some folks the guy who gets cheated on is always expected to "live up" to something. And the women who cheats is "only human". It's a bunch of crap. I think you gave more then you should have. The only true martyrs are in religion, don't expect some reward in this case.

Why exactly do you think marring and staying with someone who cheats on you so brutally 2 weeks before the vows makes you decent? Staying with a cheater doesn't make you decent in any way, doesn't make indecent either.

Look if you want to stay stay, but if you are staying out of some misplaced guilt then it's going to suck and you will just be her 10 years from now.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

aaronj said:


> but I am not sure how your experience or your lack of tolerance for betrayal helps me now.


Perhaps you missed this?



Personal said:


> Don't blame her at all for any of it, since you chose to accept it. Plus forgive yourself for the choices you have made.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Dude you are going to find to some folks the guy who gets cheated on is always expected to "live up" to something. And the women who cheats is "only human". It's a bunch of crap. I think you gave more then you should have. The only true martyrs are in religion, don't expect some reward in this case.


Well I'm just trying to get him to own his choices, which puts the blame entirely on him for the situation he finds himself in. Since she told him what she did, and instead of dumping her immediately he decided to marry her.

One thing for sure I'm certainly not suggesting she is "only human", although she is no less human than any other human is.

At the end of the day she chose to cheat on him, because she wanted to cheat on him. While he chose to marry her, despite knowing she cheated on him.

For all her appalling behaviour, at least she owned her choice. While he's still trying to absolve himself from his responsibility for choosing her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> You are reading way more into this situation than I got from what he said. Also, you are assuming alot more about what I'm thinking of this than what I meant to convey in my post and response to you.
> 
> Just remember, I didn't give her a pass - HE DID. HE forgave her (I would not have). HE decided to marry her (I would not have). Also, I want to make sure that anyone reading my posts understands that I am absolutely NOT judging him for being unable to get over it, and I'm not holding him to a higher standard at all...that's what I mean by you are getting more out of my replies than what I mean.
> 
> ...


OK you are probably right. I just get sick of these stories frankly. And also I hate that "romantic" movie. That is like one of the most toxic stories I can think of and it's packaged into this nice romantic bow. All these people grow up thinking how great it is, hell I even did at one point. Anyway I am sorry if I over reacted. 

Besides that, "Love of her life" has to be in perspective of who she is. What is it worth to be the "love of someones life" if they had to cheat two weeks before the wedding to figure it out? 

I think we all agree that OP is in this situation by his own doing and it's way past time for him to accept that. And if your point is from he decided to forgive her and assuming it's true that she never cheated she has held up her end of the bargain. In other words at the point after she cheated, but she still cheated, and frankly in my mind there is no statue of limitations when it comes to that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> I don't disagree with you. Based on the posts I have seen I think you may come the closest to understanding what I have dealt with and what still haunts me. I am trying to live with it. Trying to live with something doesn't mean it is easy.
> 
> I do appreciate your perspective.


Here is the point OP. Quit acting like you are powerless! You're not and you never were. If you are unhappy do something about it. If you want passion make some passion. If you want to leave, leave. But in this whole situation you have never been powerless. So many people come on here after having found out year later, who are not given a choice, as bad as your wife was she gave you the choice. Still sucks but that is better then a lot. You can't say you were robbed because you married the person who mugged you.

So many people find out years later that they weren't given a choice, that their agency was stolen from them. Again for all the evil that your wife did at least she had enough good in her to give you a choice. And you should understand there is not a person alive your age that doesn't regret choices they made when they were young.

And still today you have the same power. If you want to you can leave tomorrow. Yes it was cost you but you may also gain something. And it is costing you because you chose to stay not because of anything she is doing to you today.

I am not saying it wasn't an impossible choice or that it sucked but you have also stayed for 30 years and you are still staying right now. Making the same choice every day and hoping for a different outcome. There is no cavalry coming to save you. As long as you stay this is it, this is what you got.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Personal said:


> Well I'm just trying to get him to own his choices, which puts the blame entirely on him for the situation he finds himself in. Since she told him what she did, and instead of dumping her immediately he decided to marry her.
> 
> One thing for sure I'm certainly not suggesting she is "only human", although she is no less human than any other human is.
> 
> ...


I agree, and I wrote just as much above. I guess the "only human" thing that someone wrote rubbed me the wrong way.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Here is the point OP. Quit acting like you are powerless! You're not and you never were. If you are unhappy do something about it. If you want passion make some passion. If you want to leave, leave. But in this whole situation you have never been powerless. So many people come on here after having found out year later, who are not given a choice, as bad as your wife was she gave you the choice. Still sucks but that is better then a lot. You can't say you were robbed because you married the person who mugged you.
> 
> So many people find out years later that they weren't given a choice that their agency was stolen from them. Again for all the evil that your wife did at least she had enough good in her to give you a choice. There is not a person alive your age that doesn't regret choices they made when they were young.
> 
> ...


Absolutely!


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, I would ask the man who raised me how he feels about certain things, he might be able to share your feelings, but unfortunately we're back to not-talking again. 
But, knowing him how I do (long story) he would probably (think he maybe did say it to me? I was drinking very heavily at the time) that he was the biggest sucker of all time. And I suspect you the feel the same way. 

And I had a few points I wanted to make, but they've already been said while typing this reply, so not going to re-hash those. Instead I will just say this. 
You were a willing victim. 
She told you she cheated. 
Afterwards, you told her "I do" 


Might I ask another one of those hard hitting questions Aaron? 
It sounds like in terms of a spouse, your wife was a "Dissatisfied" entry. Not "Extremely Dissatisfied" or anything like that, just dissatisfied. 
Let's say I have a pill and we do this matrix style. 
Blue pill = you keep on living current life. Wife that you are unhappy/resentful of, but with kids and grandkids it sounds like. 
Red pill = no wife, no kids, and you got to live your life as a bachelor. No go back 35 years and redo life, none of that, but you can forget/let go of the resentment, but it also means letting go of the good memories, like...the kids first steps, and.....uh.....the magical look on their face when they get a car (I'm not a parent so guessing here) 
Which one are you taking?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> And why isn't this good enough for you? You are THE LOVE OF HER LIFE...that's pretty special after 35 years!!!
> 
> I want you to know that I am completely different than what others have said on here - the "safe", stable guy is the man who allows me to relax and feel passion for him, and the more I trust and get to know him, the MORE passionate and excited I feel about him. So don't think safe always equals boring. Your wife might regret what happened and be thrilled that she was able to marry the man who became the love of her life, and not the loser she made a mistake with.
> 
> Also, don't think that the details of your marriage being "on the rocks" are too much for this thread (or ANY thread on this site)...THAT is what this site is for, and that's how you will get the best insight and advice from tons of different people in similar (and different!) situations -- posting all your details!


I don’t think his wife is anything like you Lisa. I think she is getting older and her only choice is her husband now. She has realized she has been treating him like **** their entire marriage up to a few years ago. That is 30 years of **** to get over.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Here is the point OP. Quit acting like you are powerless! You're not and you never were. If you are unhappy do something about it. If you want passion make some passion. If you want to leave, leave. But in this whole situation you have never been powerless. So many people come on here after having found out year later, who are not given a choice, as bad as your wife was she gave you the choice. Still sucks but that is better then a lot. You can't say you were robbed because you married the person who mugged you.
> 
> So many people find out years later that they weren't given a choice, that their agency was stolen from them. Again for all the evil that your wife did at least she had enough good in her to give you a choice. And you should understand there is not a person alive your age that doesn't regret choices they made when they were young.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I realize you and others have only what I have posted in this thread to react to. I don't think I ever said I believed I was powerless or that I have not used some of my power to try to address things. 

Do I have regret? Unfortunately, yes. The regret, once pushed back into the deep recesses of my mind, has come to the fore in recent years. There are a lot of contributing factors. I know I made the choice (choices, actually) that led to my current feelings of regret and I don't feel or act like a victim. 

Now, facing the last quarter or so of life, I am reflecting on the past a bit more and a movie I saw triggered an emotional response related to an eerily similar circumstance that personally experienced nearly 36 years ago.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

ABHale said:


> I don’t think his wife is anything like you Lisa. I think she is getting older and her only choice is her husband now. She has realized she has been treating him like *** their entire marriage up to a few years ago. That is 30 years of *** to get over.


Thank you. I think you are closer to hitting the nail on this statement. The situation before the wedding was the tip-off of a longer shared life that has had a lots of twists and turns. For so long I really wanted my wife to treat me like the love of her life but that didn't happen. There are lots of reasons for that, some contributed by me to be sure. Now, after all these years she does seem to have come around to seeing and appreciating what I think she had all along. The difference is that I have also spent the last several years examining my life and trying to understand who she really is/was. Through that lens I struggle with the feeling of "too little, too late." 

I know I am not powerless, as some suggest I may consider myself. Rather, I know I have all the power and I struggle with whether the upheaval I could create would be worse than staying the course.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

aaronj said:


> Thank you. I think you are closer to hitting the nail on this statement. The situation before the wedding was the tip-off of a longer shared life that has had a lots of twists and turns. For so long I really wanted my wife to treat me like the love of her life but that didn't happen. There are lots of reasons for that, some contributed by me to be sure. Now, after all these years she does seem to have come around to seeing and appreciating what I think she had all along. The difference is that I have also spent the last several years examining my life and trying to understand who she really is/was. Through that lens I struggle with the feeling of "too little, too late."
> 
> I know I am not powerless, as some suggest I may consider myself. Rather, I know I have all the power and I struggle with whether the upheaval I could create would be worse than staying the course.


I am right there with you with to little to late. The feeling of only being a paycheck. Now the we are in our 50’s, my wife is trying in a way.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

ABHale said:


> I am right there with you with to little to late. The feeling of only being a paycheck. Now the we are in our 50’s, my wife is trying in a way.


Yeah, “too little too late” is a problem of many posters here...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Actually, you're not Lon Hammond because he didn't get the girl. What he got was the opportunity to find a girl who felt the way about him that Allie felt about Noah.

After 35 years, you have a raging case of buyer's remorse. If those other considerations you allude to had not transpired you might be patting yourself on the back for taking the chance with her.

One motive for her may have been she wanted to make sure she wouldn't have buyer's remorse by extinguishing the flame for the ex. She went, she saw, she made up her mind, she confessed and gave you the opportunity to cancel the wedding.

Even if she had never cheated before the wedding, doesn't mean she would have been the stellar wife you regret not having.

Have you considered individual counseling to help you sort this for yourself?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Actually, you're not Lon Hammond because he didn't get the girl. What he got was the opportunity to find a girl who felt the way about him that Allie felt about Noah.
> 
> After 35 years, you have a raging case of buyer's remorse. If those other considerations you allude to had not transpired you might be patting yourself on the back for taking the chance with her.
> 
> ...


I am in no way advocating this but in a truly fair world, now that he has doubts just like she did, if he meets someone who is suitable, he should have an emotional affair and a one night stand and then if he decides it's not what he wants, confess. They she can choose if she wants to spend the rest of her life, like he had to. 

I doubt his wife would be amenable to that. 

I agree with you though it was always very unlikely that a person who is selfish enough to cheat 2 weeks before a wedding was ever going to be a good spouse. Those two thing just don't go together.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I am in no way advocating this but in a truly fair world, now that he has doubts just like she did, if he meets someone who is suitable, he should have an emotional affair and a one night stand and then if he decides it's not what he wants, confess. They she can choose if she wants to spend the rest of her life, like he had to.


This is a false equivalency and you know it. Vows mean something.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Why are we acting like she is some delicate snowflake that is powerless over her fweewings and that she settled for the safe guy mommy and Aunt Beulah wanted and has been living a passionless and desolate life since?

She was a free and legal adult. She made a choice.

Yes, she was a skank for hooking up with the OM. Yes maybe she threw herself into the mud in the rain to beg him to take her away and he rejected her.

But she still made a conscious choice to come clean about it and gave Aaron the option and choice to walk away.

She chose to stay.

He chose to stay.

He hasn’t said anything about her cheating or not being a good wife and partner for THIRTY FIVE YEARS.

If this marriage has been passionless and without intimacy and affection, do you really think it would have lasted this long?

The way I see it, she has made good on her decision and has stood by her choice and decision.

She has had 13,110 days to pack her stuff and go back to ex or any one of 3.5 billion other men on earth, but she hasn’t.

If he had wrote in to TAM 35 years ago saying his fiance’ Had just hooked up with an ex before the wedding, I’d tell him to cancel everything and either walk away or at least put everything on indefinite hold until they get everything sorted out.

But if she’s been a faithful and loving wife and mother for almost 36 years, then what is done is done. This is the reality. 

This is his hang up and his crux.

He needs to find away to deal with it and move on whether that is through some kind of IC or therapy or sitting on a mountain top meditating or whatever.

And he needs to either move on with her or without her but either way he needs to get past this as it is poisoning his current life and marriage.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Arron, 

You and i are close to the same age and i understand for many men and women we have a chance to look back on our lives and we review it like a movie going forward and there are things we would definitely do over and some if we were able to edit our life delete them from our life. I personally don't think that it would be out of line to tell your wife that watch the notebook and seeing yourself as Lon that in hindsight you would have have take you back after being with your ex. i think she shoudl know that, i think she should ponder that for the rest of her life....that you accepted her under false pretense. Please do not keep it inside you ....now if you chose to stay silent then might i recommend you write a letter to you wife upon your death (if you go first) in which you detail all all of this. Also not sure if you have kids i would also recommend telling your kids that if you marrying someone make sure if its for the right reason and not because they are a safer bet. But make sure she is in the room when you tell them that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Arron,
> 
> You and i are close to the same age and i understand for many men and women we have a chance to look back on our lives and we review it like a movie going forward and there are things we would definitely do over and some if we were able to edit our life delete them from our life. I personally don't think that it would be out of line to tell your wife that watch the notebook and seeing yourself as Lon that in hindsight you would have have take you back after being with your ex. i think she shoudl know that, i think she should ponder that for the rest of her life....that you accepted her under false pretense. Please do not keep it inside you ....now if you chose to stay silent then might i recommend you write a letter to you wife upon your death (if you go first) in which you detail all all of this. Also not sure if you have kids i would also recommend telling your kids that if you marrying someone make sure if its for the right reason and not because they are a safer bet. But make sure she is in the room when you tell them that.


And this needs to be her burden because????? 

And a grieving widow needs to have her decades with her husband’s brought into question because??????


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

aaronj said:


> Do I have regret? Unfortunately, yes. The regret, once pushed back into the deep recesses of my mind, has come to the fore in recent years. There are a lot of contributing factors. I know I made the choice (choices, actually) that led to my current feelings of regret and I don't feel or act like a victim.
> 
> Now, facing the last quarter or so of life, I am reflecting on the past a bit more and a movie I saw triggered an emotional response related to an eerily similar circumstance that personally experienced nearly 36 years ago.


I notice you didn't directly answer my question. Think I know why. But I also think I know the answer Mr. Reeves. 

If you will indulge me, I do have one last question. 

You've had almost 36 years of marriage, plus the dating phase, to get to know this woman. That is a very, VERY, long time. 

And you've had 36 years to come up with the various theories as to why she went out and cheated. And the forum has put forth a few ideas, but I don't care about the forum's ideas. I want to know your theory. Your opinion. After this many years, and looking back over the years, I imagine one theory has taken root in your mind. One theory that you think is the most plausible reason. 
I'm not too curious about what you think happened, I'm more curious what you think she is capable of. 
Do you think it's more likely she was just young, horny, and stupid? 
Or, that she was far more cunning, under-handed, and manipulative to get what she wanted, and have you in her back pocket waiting for her?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> This is a false equivalency and you know it. Vows mean something.


Yeah that's true, but he also has no illusions about what his marriage will be.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> Yeah, “too little too late” is a problem of many posters here...


Yes, and I am one of them. My H was a serial cheater 10 years into our marriage but the last 20 years he's been faithful. And even though he's a much better H now and I know he loves me, it doesn't negate what he did to me and our marriage. He took away my right to make an informed decision about my life. And even though I do love him, I know I can never feel the same way about him. Thus far I have chosen to stay but everyday I wonder if I shouldn't have left when it made more sense to do so. 
Your wife did tell you and you decided to marry her anyway. You made a choice then but now you are regretting that choice. Like me, you need to weigh the pros and cons of leaving and starting over. Perhaps you should suggest a trial separation. I took a job further from home a few years ago and rented a small apartment until the pandemic started and then it made more sense for me to be closer to my family again. Being on my own gave me more perspective on what I wanted.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Arron,
> 
> You and i are close to the same age and i understand for many men and women we have a chance to look back on our lives and we review it like a movie going forward and there are things we would definitely do over and some if we were able to edit our life delete them from our life. I personally don't think that it would be out of line to tell your wife that watch the notebook and seeing yourself as Lon that in hindsight you would have have take you back after being with your ex. i think she shoudl know that, i think she should ponder that for the rest of her life....that you accepted her under false pretense. Please do not keep it inside you ....now if you chose to stay silent then might i recommend you write a letter to you wife upon your death (if you go first) in which you detail all all of this. Also not sure if you have kids i would also recommend telling your kids that if you marrying someone make sure if its for the right reason and not because they are a safer bet. But make sure she is in the room when you tell them that.


Except there were no false pretenses, he knew the whole story and married her anyway.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> And this needs to be her burden because?????
> 
> And a grieving widow needs to have her decades with her husband’s brought into question because??????


Yeah tell her now and see if you can work it out.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> And this needs to be her burden because?????
> 
> And a grieving widow needs to have her decades with her husband’s brought into question because??????



Because she owns her crap, she owns who transgressions


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Except there were no false pretenses, he knew the whole story and married her anyway.


so does that mean she shoudl say nothing, that he shoudl just suck it up, BS why not speak his mine and tell her he regrets taking her hand in marriage....granted it will not change things but why not let her know she was tainted. 
i will tell you one thing, if i was his friend or best man then, i would have done everything in my power to kill the marriage from happening rather than see a good man marry a hoe


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lostinthought61 said:


> so does that mean she shoudl say nothing, that he shoudl just suck it up, BS why not speak his mine and tell her he regrets taking her hand in marriage....granted it will not change things but why not let her know she was tainted.


No I think he should tell her now. I don't feel sorry for her, like I said in my earlier posts she tainted the well. It was unrealistic for either of them to think this wouldn't permeate every part of their marriage going forward. These are the consequences. But it was also unrealistic to think that someone who could do this was going to make a good spouse. Sounds like the best thing he can say about her was she never cheated again. 

Unfortunately society doesn't really teach this so I doubt either of them knew what to expect, hell the Notebook is what people expect. But this is the reality and these are the consequences. The whole love can overcome anything is a crock.

All that said he made an informed choice and he has every day since.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Because she owns her crap, she owns who transgressions


Which she did almost 36 years ago.

She told him about the other dude right after it happened and Aaron chose to stay with her anyway. 

He hasn’t said anything that indicates she has cheated since or done any malfeasance to him in the 35 years they’ve been together. 

This is on him. This is his cross to bear and his issue to deal with.

He too has has 35 years to pack his bags if he doesn’t want to be with her. 

She laid it out there 35 years and he chose to stay.

Why should she bear his burden now after 35 years? Why should she get a letter telling her she sucks while she’s trying to settle his estate and get his body in the ground? 

Assuming she’s been faithful and loving since they got married, she has made good on her vows and has owned her - - - -. 

Now he needs to own his and either crap or get off the pot.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lostinthought61 said:


> so does that mean she shoudl say nothing, that he shoudl just suck it up, BS why not speak his mine and tell her he regrets taking her hand in marriage....granted it will not change things but why not let her know she was tainted.
> i will tell you one thing, if i was his friend or best man then, i would have done everything in my power to kill the marriage from happening rather than see a good man marry a hoe


If this happened in the now, I would agree with you.

But did you catch the part where they have been together almost 36 years??? 

They are both completely different people than they were 36 years ago and have had a lifetime together. 

Assuming she hasn’t been a cheating hoe since they got married, this is a lifetime ago.

If he has carried this poison in him all this time, then that is on him. 

Yeah she screwed up big time. If he dumped her azz 35 years ago, she would have had it coming and each of them could have moved on.

But he has had 13,110 days to pack his stuff, but yet there he is.

If he can’t stand to be with her and her hook up spoiled their relationship and he can’t get past it and can’t love and honor her the way a husband should love and honor his wife, then he has made 13,110 mistakes for each day he stayed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now that being said, he does have the right to divorce her if he doesn’t want to be with her anymore, just like any consenting adult in a free society has the right to leave if they don’t want to be with their spouse anymore. 

But to rub her face in something that she did almost 36 years ago is just plain dumb if not actually psycho. 

If you want to leave leave. Make it as fair and equitable and clean as possible. 

But it’s on you. It’s your cross to bear. Your choice. Your reasons and your rational. You don’t have to get our blessing and you don’t need to get her blessing either. 

She gave you the opportunity to dump her azz on a silver platter 36 years ago. 

You took on that burden at that time. So this decision now is yours and is in you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I also want to add that IMHO, that unless he comes up with some kind of tangible things that she has actually done wrong (ie cheating, abusive, abandonment, chronic rejection sexually, alcohol/drug abuse, chronic over spending etc etc) during the course of the marriage, then why is this an issue NOW?

Is this some kind of weird midlife crisis? Is this some kind of weird existential crisis that has manifested itself now? 

Yeah what she did before the wedding was horribly ****ty and worthy of ending the relationship, but all of us have our own baggage that accumulates over decades of marriage.

Why is this an issue now?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> If this happened in the now, I would agree with you.
> 
> But did you catch the part where they have been together almost 36 years???
> 
> ...


but did you miss the part that this is bothering him now, that he suppressed all these years and now he wants to address it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Which she did almost 36 years ago.
> 
> She told him about the other dude right after it happened and Aaron chose to stay with her anyway.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. If he stays the whole marriage it's a pretty ****ty passive aggressive move to send a letter after he is dead. Everyday he makes a choice to stay so it's all on him.



> Why is this an issue now?


Why wouldn't it be now. I mean you read on here, even the best ones say they think about it every day. 15. 20 years. Why is it surprising that things remind him of what she did and piss him off. What she did was ****ed up period. Some things don't go away even if you spend the rest of your life being great. Infidelity is death, part of everyone involved dies.

Yeah and like everything else it's exacerbates all the typical stuff that goes on in marriage.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

He resents her. Resentment is a marriage killer, plain and simple. I resent my H for forcing me to deal with his choice to cheat. For my own stupid reactions to it. I wish I had screamed at him from the rooftops, told the whole world, and kicked him to the curb. But I didn't. I stayed because I was afraid to be on my own, of what it would do to our children, because of shame. We don't much talk about the shame the BS feels when a WS cheats. It doesn't make sense, but it's real. 
OP, you stayed too when you could have left long ago. I think you've always resented her for foisting that decision on you. There's no logic to it because you were given the choice to stay or leave. At least she gave you that. So your choice now is to find a way to let go of that resentment and move forward with her or to walk away. Walking away carries a price too. So before you go there, think carefully about whether its worth it for you to first work on the marriage. You'll have to be brutally honest and so will your wife.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Actually, you're not Lon Hammond because he didn't get the girl. What he got was the opportunity to find a girl who felt the way about him that Allie felt about Noah.
> 
> After 35 years, you have a raging case of buyer's remorse. If those other considerations you allude to had not transpired you might be patting yourself on the back for taking the chance with her.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I have been in and out of individual counseling for the past nine years and have also been in marriage counseling. Unfortunately, despite the counseling, I have not found peace with this issue. There is a lot between that scenario and where we are today that has occurred and that I haven't shared to get me to this point. No one seems to have noted that I have been a member of this site for almost nine years. So, the "Lon Hamilton" epiphany on Sunday is just a fragment of my experience. Honestly, it was just a "whoa" moment for me.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Why are we acting like she is some delicate snowflake that is powerless over her fweewings and that she settled for the safe guy mommy and Aunt Beulah wanted and has been living a passionless and desolate life since?
> 
> She was a free and legal adult. She made a choice.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I didn't make my original post to dredge up the entirety of our complex relationship. Let's just say that a LOT has happened since that fateful experience and it feeds my feelings of ennui.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

blahfridge said:


> Yes, and I am one of them. My H was a serial cheater 10 years into our marriage but the last 20 years he's been faithful. And even though he's a much better H now and I know he loves me, it doesn't negate what he did to me and our marriage. He took away my right to make an informed decision about my life. And even though I do love him, I know I can never feel the same way about him. Thus far I have chosen to stay but everyday I wonder if I shouldn't have left when it made more sense to do so.
> Your wife did tell you and you decided to marry her anyway. You made a choice then but now you are regretting that choice. Like me, you need to weigh the pros and cons of leaving and starting over. Perhaps you should suggest a trial separation. I took a job further from home a few years ago and rented a small apartment until the pandemic started and then it made more sense for me to be closer to my family again. Being on my own gave me more perspective on what I wanted.


Thank you. We have had a separation of sorts since 2012. I took a job 150 miles from her. She decided to stay there in part to help our younger daughter finish school. Then I realized I enjoyed my own space and time and didn't necessarily want her to move to be with me. With the pandemic, we have spent the most time together since 2012 and I think it has heightened some of my doubts and reservations about a future together.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Lostinthought61 said:


> but did you miss the part that this is bothering him now, that he suppressed all these years and now he wants to address it.


I did suppress it for nearly 30 years. Several years ago I tried to address it with her. She didn't or couldn't engage in that conversation.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I also want to add that IMHO, that unless he comes up with some kind of tangible things that she has actually done wrong (ie cheating, abusive, abandonment, chronic rejection sexually, alcohol/drug abuse, chronic over spending etc etc) during the course of the marriage, then why is this an issue NOW?
> 
> Is this some kind of weird midlife crisis? Is this some kind of weird existential crisis that has manifested itself now?
> 
> ...


I didn't say this was an issue just now. I just said that the movie was a revelatory moment for me. There are many, many other things--some of which I own, that I carry with me. I merely asked if anyone else identified with Lon Hamilton...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

aaronj said:


> Thank you. I have been in and out of individual counseling for the past nine years and have also been in marriage counseling. Unfortunately, despite the counseling, I have not found peace with this issue. There is a lot between that scenario and where we are today that has occurred and that I haven't shared to get me to this point. No one seems to have noted that I have been a member of this site for almost nine years. So, the "Lon Hamilton" epiphany on Sunday is just a fragment of my experience. Honestly, it was just a "whoa" moment for me.


I noted the date of your membership and the number of posts. I figured you play your cards close to your vest.

That's a lot of counseling. Look, even Woody Allen figured out that after spending a couple of bloody fortunes and decades on therapy that all he was doing was paying someone to listen to him whine.

At your age, either crap or get off the pot with the history. All you're doing is making yourself miserable. Yes, your assets would take a hit (as would hers); but, the constant trigger of her presence would be gone. You can live the rest of your years in peace and, hopefully, find a truly fulfilling relationship. Good luck.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> I noted the date of your membership and the number of posts. I figured you play your cards close to your vest.
> 
> That's a lot of counseling. Look, even Woody Allen figured out that after spending a couple of bloody fortunes and decades on therapy that all he was doing was paying someone to listen to him whine.
> 
> At your age, either crap or get off the pot with the history. All you're doing is making yourself miserable. Yes, your assets would take a hit (as would hers); but, the constant trigger of her presence would be gone. You can live the rest of your years in peace and, hopefully, find a truly fulfilling relationship. Good luck.


Thank you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

blahfridge said:


> He resents her. Resentment is a marriage killer, plain and simple. I resent my H for forcing me to deal with his choice to cheat. For my own stupid reactions to it. I wish I had screamed at him from the rooftops, told the whole world, and kicked him to the curb. But I didn't. I stayed because I was afraid to be on my own, of what it would do to our children, because of shame. We don't much talk about the shame the BS feels when a WS cheats. It doesn't make sense, but it's real.
> OP, you stayed too when you could have left long ago. I think you've always resented her for foisting that decision on you. There's no logic to it because you were given the choice to stay or leave. At least she gave you that. So your choice now is to find a way to let go of that resentment and move forward with her or to walk away. Walking away carries a price too. So before you go there, think carefully about whether its worth it for you to first work on the marriage. You'll have to be brutally honest and so will your wife.


I have to ask did you feelings only change when he died though and forced your hand so to speak? If he was still alive would you still be married to him right now?

I think you are right we don't talk about shame of staying and all that - So...

The shame, though typical at first, is always misplaced, I don't think anyone should feel ashamed about being cheated on. Almost everyone has this happen to them at least once. Lots of people are very good at lying and the people who loved them expected the best. That is noble.

Now repeatedly letting yourself be abused IS shameful in my mind. Not PC but I think you have a moral responsibility to stand up for the innocent even if the innocent is yourself. This is different then someone who is with someone who has reformed and are not in a current abusive situation, I am no talking about that. Though I will say some abuse is so bad it's immoral to stay with that person at least in my mind even if they become a saint.

The thing is, once you leave, it's almost exactly the opposite, leaving and overcoming becomes a point of pride with most.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> There is a lot between that scenario and where we are today that has occurred and that I haven't shared to get me to this point. No one seems to have noted that I have been a member of this site for almost nine years.


So share it! What da ya' need an invitation'


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

sokillme said:


> So share it! What da ya' need an invitation'


Thank you. I didn't post my original post to get into all of that--and it's substantial--I just wanted to find others who might feel something similar.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

sokillme said:


> have to ask did you feelings only change when he died though and forced your hand so to speak? If he was still alive would you still be married to him right now?


Her husband is not deceased.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Her husband is not deceased.


Haha, OK I'm lost. Maybe I'm thinking of another thread.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

aaronj said:


> I just wanted to find others who might feel something similar.


Ok, fair enough. Yes, I have also felt like I was the “safe” guy and someone that she settled for in part because I was gainfully employed and somewhat ambitious careerwise and at the time was looking more to settle down rather than party and hook up. 

I was Mother- Approved. 

Where as she was a bit of a party girl. Had been with an unemployed BF for 10 years and had had a very rocky and explosive (in other words - exciting and passionate even if for the wrong reasons). 

So yeah, some one who was into clubbing and hooking up and had had a long term turbulent and chaotic relationship, now was with the safe and responsible and stable guy. 

Now we also had great sex and I was technically the OM in the beginning of our relationship. She was technically cheating on him with me. 

What I think was the tipping point was when he found out and came looking for me, I didn’t back down or scurry away. 

I said I’d take her - and I did. 

I also did a bit of a reversal from your scenario when we got engaged a couple years later, I gave her the chance to cancel our engagement without repercussion and try again with him if she wanted. 

I wanted her either all-in or all-out. If she wanted the passion and intensity of a rocky and turbulent relationship, I’d rather we call it a day before the wedding and kids etc than afterwards. 

She laughed and said I was crazy and asked if it was actually me getting cold feet. 

I simply said marriage needs to be conscious choice and any degree of indecision is a no. 

That was 25 years ago and if she regrets that choice, she hasn’t let on at all.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Ok, fair enough. Yes, I have also felt like I was the “safe” guy and someone that she settled for in part because I was gainfully employed and somewhat ambitious careerwise and at the time was looking more to settle down rather than party and hook up.
> 
> I was Mother- Approved.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I am glad it has worked out well for you both.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

aaronj.
I do not think this is about what happened 35 years ago. This is just your scapegoat. 
I think the reason this is still bothering you 35 years later is because the marriage did not work out. If you guys were happy together, this one incident would be a history now to tell grandchildren while laughing.

But it did not work out, you are not happy together. You probably would not be happy even if there was no running away to other boyfriend before wedding incident. You would be here anyway, complaining about other issues in your marriage.

The reason you keep looking back at this moment, is because this was one of these crossroads in life, where your life could go one way or the other. And you keep wondering what if.... 

But that won't fix anything. you can not undo it. What you can do is to make decision about how to move forward. There are people here who divorced that late too, and they do not regret it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

WandaJ said:


> aaronj.
> I do not think this is about what happened 35 years ago. This is just your scapegoat.
> I think the reason this is still bothering you 35 years later is because the marriage did not work out. If you guys were happy together, this one incident would be a history now to tell grandchildren while laughing.
> 
> ...



You don't think starting a marriage 2 weeks into the aftermath of infidelity has an impact on the success of a marriage? It wasn't a very good start that's for sure. Kinda like buying a car and finding out it doesn't have air-conditioning even though that was on the sticker. So you get a discount and It may be great at everything else but every hot day you are going to be pissed that you didn't get the air-conditioning you were promised to being with. 

I think it's all tied together. Infidelity stains every action of a marriage after it happens, which is why I think staying in that marriage is a bad idea for most. At the very least people should be aware of this, but I digress.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> You don't think starting a marriage 2 weeks into the aftermath of infidelity has an impact on the success of a marriage? It wasn't a very good start that's for sure. Kinda like buying a car and finding out it doesn't have air-conditioning even though that was on the sticker. So you get a discount and It may be great at everything else but every hot day you are going to be pissed that you didn't get the air-conditioning you were promised to being with.
> 
> I think it's all tied together. Infidelity stains every action of a marriage after it happens, which is why I think staying in that marriage is a bad idea for most. At the very least people should be aware of this, but I digress.


What she did was indeed ****ty. No one is questioning that. 

Where Wanda and I and some other posters are getting at is everyone has baggage after 35 years.

Everyone has problems after 35 years. Some marriages last that long. Many don’t. 

There comes a time we all look back and reflect and wonder where we could have done better or where things went off the rails, along with what went right and what was positive etc.

Aaron was triggered by a movie. Someone else will get triggered by a different movie. 

After 35 years, we all question what has gone down in the past.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> What she did was indeed ****ty. No one is questioning that.
> 
> Where Wanda and I and some other posters are getting at is everyone has baggage after 35 years.
> 
> ...


But any relationship needs to be built on a firm foundation. Unfortunately they didn't have one. Now I agree that he is in a situation of his own making, and truthfully he chooses to stay in that situation every day. But I think in most cases a marriage that starts off like this one isn't going to be good, if anything it's probably the very rare one that last 35 years.

He is responsible for staying, but not for his marriage being crap. I my mind he never had a chance.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

sokillme said:


> But any relationship needs to be built on a firm foundation. Unfortunately they didn't have one. Now I agree that he is in a situation of his own making, and truthfully he chooses to stay in that situation every day. But I think in most cases a marriage that starts off like this one isn't going to be good, if anything it's probably the very rare one that last 35 years.
> 
> He is responsible for staying, but not for his marriage being crap. I my mind he never had a chance.


We don’t know his level of responsibility for the state of his marriage. We only have his side of the story, and not much of that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Thank you all for your thoughtful perspectives and insights. I didn't really want to go into everything else that has gone on during our marriage, but I see that the lack of that information makes it challenging for others. I will spend a little time this evening and see if I can concisely provide that background. In the meantime, I want to say the following:

1. I know I made the decision to marry her despite knowing what happened. I have thanked her many times for being that honest with me.

2. There have been things in the marriage that I have done/not done that undoubtedly contributed to where we are today. I can and do own up to those things. Likewise, there are things she has done/not done that contribute to where we are. She doesn't seem to fully own up to them--at least not to the degree that I need her to.

3. Where I am today is largely the result of many years of introspection, counseling, and attempts to communicate with my wife.

4. I am not afraid of being alone nor do I worry about having someone to care for me in my old age. Those are not reasons why I stay. I don't NEED her in my life. If anything, she needs me to function and I struggle with the potential guilt I would feel for leaving her on her own--something that she currently could not manage well.

Again, thank you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sokillme said:


> But any relationship needs to be built on a firm foundation. Unfortunately they didn't have one. Now I agree that he is in a situation of his own making, and truthfully he chooses to stay in that situation every day. But I think in most cases a marriage that starts off like this one isn't going to be good, if anything it's probably the very rare one that last 35 years.
> 
> He is responsible for staying, but not for his marriage being crap. I my mind he never had a chance.


Hey, they made it 35 years.

How many couples have a perfectly story-book beginning to their relationship that go down in flames 10 or so years later?

Maybe an even better question is how many couples have a story-book beginning to their relationship at all??

Mine certainly wasn’t. You could probably make some kind of Amy Schumer movie about the beginning of mine and people would just shake their heads and roll their eyes and wonder what either of us were thinking. 
.......yet here we are. 

No human relationship is perfect and none have only been calm seas, clear skies and favorable winds. All have had storms, rocky shores, headwinds and shark infested waters at various times. 

I challenge that Aaron’s personal crisis is actually in the now and contemporary. He was triggered by a movie that may have opened an old wound and brought about some reflection of that time. 

But his actual issues and turmoil are now.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Here you go (in three parts):

Here is an overview of our history together, admittedly from my perspective. I am sorry this is so long, but it is about as brief as I can make it and still give important context for the situation.

We were married 36 years ago thiw September and have two daughters: 31 and 22. We met in college but didn’t start a romantic relationship until her senior year (she’s a year ahead of me). We dated for a little more than a year and got married the fall after I graduated from college. 

A couple of months before our wedding I started my new job and grad school. I was living about 350 miles away from her. We kept in touch via phone and letters and she came to visit me one weekend. 

About two weeks before our wedding she slept with her "first love" (BF#1). She came up to see me that night and confessed; telling me she knew it was a huge mistake and she apologized profusely, asking me to forgive her. I got angry, we cried, we talked, she spent the weekend and afterward sent me two letters of contrition, pledging her undying love for me. 

Looking back, I was so young and unsure of what to do. I was also removed from any support from family and friends and felt like I had no one to turn to. I felt like I couldn’t turn to my parents or close friends because if she and I were to stay together it would ruin their opinions and their future relationships with my wife. I had no older siblings to give me advice. And, frankly, in addition to being hurt, I was embarrassed to admit that the woman I loved so much, the one who was supposed to be so in love with me, and the one I was planning to spend the rest of my life with, could sleep with someone else—especially so close to our wedding. 

Because the wedding was at hand, invitations sent, everything booked, etc., I feared making a rash decision. I was afraid of looking immature and irresponsible if I called it off so close to the date. She seemed so honestly sorry and I loved her so much that I thought we could still make it work. I “forgave” her, we agreed to put it behind us, and went ahead with the wedding. I honestly thought I could put it behind me, but I really never did. To this day, she can't tell me WHY she went to him. Over the past few years I have asked why several times and all she can say was that she had been so “crazy” about this guy that she hadn’t been thinking rationally.

Looking back it’s easy to see she wasn't really ready to get married (though she pushed for us to move up the wedding date when I got a job out of state). I think she went to this guy to either give him a chance to take her away from me or she wanted to call-off the wedding and didn't have the guts--so she “did what she did,” thinking I would call it off for her. Those are the only plausible explanations I can think of after all this time. Of course, in hindsight, I see how we never really addressed it—it just got swept under the rug—and it has always gnawed at me. I asked her why she wanted to go ahead with the wedding when she was clearly conflicted. About all I can get from her is that she was afraid she’d lose me if we didn’t get married then. 

Soon into our marriage she was struggling with her life and career. Her mother had recently been diagnosed with lung cancer and the prognosis wasn’t good. I think she resented being so far away from her family during this time. She expressed a lot of frustrations and seemed out of sorts a lot of the time. I remember feeling like she lacked any confidence in herself and I was constantly expressing my love and support for her. I tried to be supportive and let her know that I was on her side as she wrestled with these feelings. She described it as "restlessness." I now believe the restlessness was simply the same doubts and fears she had before the wedding. I also had reasons to believe she was in contact with another old boyfriend (BF #2).

About 18 months later she became pregnant. It was ectopic and she almost bled to death in the emergency room.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Following her recovery from the surgery, she abruptly quit her job (without consulting me) and decided she wanted to go back to school full-time in the fall. That summer she took off for about three weeks to work at the summer camp where she and BF #2 had first met and fell in love. I always suspected she saw him then, but never knew for sure. 

I supported her in pursuing her education and we found a way to make it work financially. In the years that followed there were a few signs of continued contact with BF #2 (occasional cards and letters) but it didn’t appear they were more than friends. I later discovered that they had maintained intermittent contact via phone calls. 

During that period we worked through a number of life challenges: finishing graduate school, starting careers, the death of my wife’s mother, the birth of our dear older daughter, the purchase of our first house, and the loss of another pregnancy. I always felt like my wife and I had moments of great alignment during this period, but that something was always just a bit off between us. She never seemed completely happy with me or with our life together.

When our older daughter was three or four my wife went to a week-long reunion for the same summer camp and I suspected she met up with BF #2, though I could never prove it. I didn't know for sure until I learned through their more recent correspondence that they had spent time together that week. Again, there appeared to be no sex but in later correspondence they both acknowledged the "passion" and "attraction" they felt for one another.

Life continued and in the ensuing years we experienced another lost pregnancy, a traumatic surgery that left my wife sterile, a medical lawsuit, which we settled, several in vitro fertilization attempts, individual counseling for her and marriage counseling for us, career transitions, and the adoption of our dear younger daughter. I loved my wife, but continued to feel like there was a distance between us that we would never be able to bridge.

Before the adoption I seriously considered leaving my wife, but couldn’t bring myself to do it. I distinctly remember thinking that the best thing I could do for her would be to die and leave her with my life insurance and our other assets.

In the late 90s, right after the adoption of our younger daughter, we moved to a new location that would be much closer to all of our family. It seemed that we were getting a fresh start in a new home. Within a few years my wife showed a lot of signs of anger and irritability toward me and even toward our girls. In 2004 she started on Prozac to help with what her MD described as “perimenopausal” issues. 

By 2005 I was working a lot of hours, traveling a lot, and nearly always tired when I was home. Admittedly, I was withdrawing more from her and our children. I was not the husband and father I should have been during this period, but I rationalized it because I was making strides in my career and trying to strengthen our financial future. I knew she wasn’t really happy, but I resigned myself to an existence where I expected her to be unhappy with me a lot of the time (see the aforementioned comment about life insurance). I would continue to make some effort, but gave up on finding a way for her to be happy. Our relationship was seemingly always teetering on the edge of tension. We still liked and had love for each other, but it felt like the spark, the specialness was gone and that it would never return.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Delete


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

On July 26, 2011, I came home to find our office computer open to her email account. I had not ever snooped, but felt the need to do so. I soon discovered that she had been engaged in a long-term EA with BF #2, after he had searched and found her on the internet in 2005. They had mainly exchanged emails, but also had had several phone calls and later Facebook chats. In addition, they had met in person once in July, 2006, but had not slept with one another (verified by their emails). I also confirmed that they had maintained significant contact throughout our early marriage and that they had spent time together at the camp reunion in 1993 or 1994. Again, they had been physically close at those times, each describing the “passion” they felt for one another, but hadn't had intercourse, according to their emails. My wife said she decided to cut ties with him sometime soon after the camp reunion based on a phone conversation they had. It appears that they had not been in contact for more than a decade before November, 2005.

After discovering the EA, I got into her other email accounts, including the secret account she created to correspond with BF #2 and saw that even before her contact with BF #2 she was exchanging “fond remembrance” emails with BF #1. With BF #2 they took on a more overt romantic and sexual overtone, though that seemed to become less intense in the last three years. Yet, the email exchange that tipped me off was about 6 months earlier, on February 3, in which she said she imagined being with him and that these feelings were “distinct to you.” They both expressed regret at not having consummated the relationship in their 2006 visit. Here is one of the last messages she sent to him during that exchange:

“I really just want my promises to disappear, push you know who in a deep lake of really cold water, and walk away. There would be no other concerns, no tomorrows. I think of myself looking up at you and then looking down to you. It would be an intense limbo. I get stuck there.... We aren't even of any age, just ourselves.”

She followed up the next day saying:

” It is interesting to me that as I seem to feel things more intensely, you seem more resolved. Maybe such timing is a gift of Fate to keep us out of trouble.”

They exchanged more emails, some Facebook chats, and appeared to have a couple of phone calls in late March and early April (including the evening of my birthday if Facebook’s time-stamps are to be trusted). From what I could tell their last email and phone contact was in April, 2011, though she did send him a text in early May, without a response from him. She can’t or won’t tell me why things seemed to stop after that point, even though I have asked several times.

Following my discovery, we worked toward reconciling in our relationship and rebuilding our marriage. Things between us were demonstrably better for a time. We spent more time together, just the two of us, and we both said we felt more connected. We talked about the EA and about our relationship, but when I tried to discuss some of the more painful aspects of the EA (such as her professions of sexual desire for him and how he has his “own parts” of “her heart,” she either doesn’t respond or tries to deflect.

There was no contact with the other man as far as I could tell, since early 2011. He died in a tragic accident in 2012.

Also in 2012 I took a new position some 150 miles where we lived. My current job situation had become intolerable and I actually had three opportunities to consider, including two that would be farther away. She encouraged me to take the one closer to our home because it could also lead to her moving back to her family farm. When things blew up with her siblings, she decided to stay put and we began a commuter marriage.

Since then I have been promoted to an even bigger role. I have also tried many ways to engage her in the conversations needed to help me (us) move forward. We have had one-on-one talks. We have tried marriage counseling. I have written her heartfelt and direct letters. Nothing seems to have broken through to her.

I have my own issues, but she has struggled with anger issues and depression. More recently our older daughter suggested her mom might have a personality disorder. This is coming from a person who did undergraduate and graduate work in neuroscience and psychology, and who is now a physician. So, I think that contributes to our situation.

I don’t know what the future holds, but I struggle with my responsibility to my vows and whether I should just suck it up and ride it out.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Still very vague. Basically any high school or college kid who has been dating his/her sweetheart for more than a handful of months could probably say the same things.
> 
> Could you give us just one specific issue that is a current sticking point that is causing problems?


As I mentioned, I hope my more recent posts provide the specificity you suggest.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Elizabeth001 said:


> We don’t know his level of responsibility for the state of his marriage. We only have his side of the story, and not much of that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I guess I don't really think there are many good marriages with infidelity in them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> On July 26, 2011, I came home to find our office computer open to her email account. I had not ever snooped, but felt the need to do so. I soon discovered that she had been engaged in a long-term EA with BF #2, after he had searched and found her on the internet in 2005. They had mainly exchanged emails, but also had had several phone calls and later Facebook chats. In addition, they had met in person once in July, 2006, but had not slept with one another (verified by their emails). I also confirmed that they had maintained significant contact throughout our early marriage and that they had spent time together at the camp reunion in 1993 or 1994. Again, they had been physically close at those times, each describing the “passion” they felt for one another, but hadn't had intercourse, according to their emails. My wife said she decided to cut ties with him sometime soon after the camp reunion based on a phone conversation they had. It appears that they had not been in contact for more than a decade before November, 2005.
> 
> After discovering the EA, I got into her other email accounts, including the secret account she created to correspond with BF #2 and saw that even before her contact with BF #2 she was exchanging “fond remembrance” emails with BF #1. With BF #2 they took on a more overt romantic and sexual overtone, though that seemed to become less intense in the last three years. Yet, the email exchange that tipped me off was about a year ago, on February 3, in which she said she imagined being with him and that these feelings were “distinct to you.” They both expressed regret at not having consummated the relationship in their 2006 visit. Here is one of the last messages she sent to him during that exchange:
> 
> ...


SIGH.....

Dude, what do you expect? Seriously?!

I mean you shouldn't have to come on to a message board to see this women is crap. There is nothing anyone can tell you that is going to make this person worth 30 years of your life. If you have grown happy kids count yourself lucky. This is isn't epitome of sunk cost fallacy. You should have given this silly person to him wrapped up in a bow 30 years ago and you should still do so today. 

Accept it, you lost to the other guy, the game was fixed and you never had a chance. She really has no value anyway. Divorce her and take the job farther away where you can date and see if you can't find the love of your life. It's brutal to say but for her - you ain't it. I mean if you are at the point where you are moving away just not to have to be around her then the only thing you are doing by staying married is preventing yourself from meeting someone better.

You said your self you have a third of your life left. Maybe you shouldn't waste it. The only reason he is not around is because he is dead. 

Whatever, it's your life to waste.

And your wrong your story is worse than that toxic movie. 

Seriously how many times can you make the same mistake?!

By the way ONCE AGAIN I am right. Anyone who has sex with an ex 2 weeks before they get married is going to be straight up crap and will prove to be a complete waste time, actually be worse, they will steal precious time from you, an emotional vampire. This is how life works. It's like gravity.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Delete


?


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

sokillme said:


> SIGH.....
> 
> Dude, what do you expect? Seriously?!
> 
> ...


Dude, I said "for better or worse."

She has psychological issues. Would you abandon a sick spouse? We have built a life, such as it is, based on joint finances. She is dependent on me. Are you saying I should just leave her to fend for herself?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> Dude, I said "for better or worse."
> 
> She has psychological issues. Would you abandon a sick spouse? We have built a life, such as it is, based on joint finances. She is dependent on me. Are you saying I should just leave her to fend for herself?


Presumably she is a grown adult. She would have left you in a heartbeat if the other guy wanted her.

And she has cheated on you twice once before you were married and then afterwords. The contract doesn't exist. She broke it.

You act like there isn't a good chance she won't meet someone else and do it again. Yeah right, people like your wife cheat that is what they do. The grass is always greener. You may very well wake up 2 years from now and find some other email.

This is how this stuff works. It's in their nature.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

aaronj said:


> As I mentioned, I hope my more recent posts provide the specificity you suggest.


Yes it certainly does. 

I deleted my post once I saw you were still posting your story.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

From your story, your wife is a serial cheat, and has done NONE of the work to help you in your reconciliation. You have allowed all of these to be rug-swept, you accept when she deflects or doesn't answer, she hasn't done any personal counseling to figure out why she did this and continues to do this.
She is a VERY poor choice for R. She has had no repercussions to her cheating, and at this point she feels you won't do anything, so she will continue to act like this.
HOW she can feel that you have a "good" marriage is beyond me with all of her cheating.

This is a case where the rug-sweeping has caught up to you and you don't want to allow it anymore, nor should you.

You say she is ill -- but has SHE done any of the work on her own mental illness? YOU cannot change that or fix that for her -- she needs professional help in order to cope with that. You are doing her no favors by letting her get away with how she acts -- you are enabling her illness by NOT confronting her.

You say that you have vows -- but your vows are a one-sided contract. SHE has violated them many times already. The contract is null and void.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

aaronj said:


> Dude, I said "for better or worse."
> 
> She has psychological issues. Would you abandon a sick spouse? We have built a life, such as it is, based on joint finances. She is dependent on me. Are you saying I should just leave her to fend for herself?


That is a very codependent and enabler statement. 

Why is she dependent on you and why can’t she as an almost 60 year old, college educated person, fend for herself? 

You can’t keep someone else from freezing by setting yourself on fire.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

aaronj said:


> Dude, I said "for better or worse."
> 
> She has psychological issues. Would you abandon a sick spouse? We have built a life, such as it is, based on joint finances. She is dependent on me. Are you saying I should just leave her to fend for herself?


That is kind of like an alcoholic’s enabler saying they can’t leave the alcoholic because then there wouldn’t be anyone around to buy the booze because they would be too drunk to get it themself.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

jlg07 said:


> From your story, your wife is a serial cheat, and has done NONE of the work to help you in your reconciliation. You have allowed all of these to be rug-swept, you accept when she deflects or doesn't answer, she hasn't done any personal counseling to figure out why she did this and continues to do this.
> She is a VERY poor choice for R. She has had no repercussions to her cheating, and at this point she feels you won't do anything, so she will continue to act like this.
> HOW she can feel that you have a "good" marriage is beyond me with all of her cheating.
> 
> ...


Thank you. She has done some things to address her issues but, sadly, not as much as I need. Your words are appreciated.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> That is kind of like an alcoholic’s enabler saying they can’t leave the alcoholic because then there wouldn’t be anyone around to buy the booze because they would be too drunk to get it themself.


Thanks. I am sure there is some enabling, but there is also some good, old-fashioned care and concern. She has made efforts to address the situation, but there is a lot of ground to cover.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So I take it this was just a post to vent then. Which is fine.

So to answer your post - Nah you are a lot worse off then poor Lon, but you are right where you want to be.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

aaronj said:


> Dude, I said "for better or worse."
> 
> She has psychological issues. Would you abandon a sick spouse? We have built a life, such as it is, based on joint finances. She is dependent on me. Are you saying I should just leave her to fend for herself?


"Psychological issues"
Hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahha 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Sorry, but if you can only see yourself trying to justify her own infidelity!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

sokillme said:


> So I take it this was just a post to vent then. Which is fine.
> 
> So to answer your post - Nah you are a lot worse off then poor Lon, but *you are right where you want to be.*


Pretty much.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> "Psychological issues"
> Hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahha 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
> 
> Sorry, but if you can only see yourself trying to justify her own infidelity!





sokillme said:


> So I take it this was just a post to vent then. Which is fine.
> 
> So to answer your post - Nah you are a lot worse off then poor Lon, but you are right where you want to be.


Your first statement is correct. Others took it upon themselves to give me advice about issues I never raised. Unfortunately, I got sucked in a bit. If you look at my original post I merely stated something that I felt/experienced and asked if anyone else felt the same way.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> "Psychological issues"
> Hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahha 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
> 
> Sorry, but if you can only see yourself trying to justify her own infidelity!


I didn't use her personality disorder and depression as an excuse for her infidelity. Rather, I mentioned those as reasons why I was concerned about her ability to survive on her own if I am out of the picture.

Hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahha 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Pretty much.


You are probably right.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

jlg07 said:


> From your story, your wife is a serial cheat, and has done NONE of the work to help you in your reconciliation. You have allowed all of these to be rug-swept, you accept when she deflects or doesn't answer, she hasn't done any personal counseling to figure out why she did this and continues to do this.
> She is a VERY poor choice for R. She has had no repercussions to her cheating, and at this point she feels you won't do anything, so she will continue to act like this.
> HOW she can feel that you have a "good" marriage is beyond me with all of her cheating.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Yet, the email exchange that tipped me off was about 6 months earlier, on February 3, in which she said she imagined being with him and that these feelings were “distinct to you.” 

They both expressed regret at not having "consummated the relationship" in their 2006 visit. Here is one of the last messages she sent to him during that exchange:

“I really just want my promises to disappear, push you know who in a deep lake of really cold water, and walk away."

Dude she was fantasizing about killing you with OM so she could get you out of the picture without the hassle of divorce.

Keep copies of that message for divorce court if you ever have enought self worth to make it happen.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> Yet, the email exchange that tipped me off was about 6 months earlier, on February 3, in which she said she imagined being with him and that these feelings were “distinct to you.”
> 
> They both expressed regret at not having "consummated the relationship" in their 2006 visit. Here is one of the last messages she sent to him during that exchange:
> 
> ...


If he wasn't going to leave her after that he isn't going to. After all she has mental health issues remember? 

OP is just upset how "unfair" it is that he willingly choose to be in a worse situation then that made up guy in that toxic movie.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

aaronj said:


> Dude, I said "for better or worse."
> 
> She has psychological issues. Would you abandon a sick spouse? We have built a life, such as it is, based on joint finances. She is dependent on me. Are you saying I should just leave her to fend for herself?


So it is okay for her to break her vows but not you....no offense but you will be forever a doormat...you seriously have no balls to own your life. If you are just going to accept her actions and not do anything then you do not have the right to *****.


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

sokillme said:


> If he wasn't going to leave her after that he isn't going to. After all she has mental health issues remember?
> 
> OP is just upset how "unfair" it is that he willingly choose to be in a worse situation then that made up guy in that toxic movie.


Where did I say it was "unfair"? I don't recall ever using that language. I don't recall ever saying that I didn't willingly lake the decision to go ahead with the wedding. I don't recall ever suggesting that I don't have the power to change my situation. Perhaps you need to focus on reading comprehension?


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Lostinthought61 said:


> So it is okay for her to break her vows but not you....no offense but you will be forever a doormat...you seriously have no balls to own your life. If you are just going to accept her actions and not do anything then you do not have the right to ***.


I didn't say I've done nothing. I just haven't taken the step to end it. If you haven't followed along, perhaps you should reread the thread. Beyond balls, a man needs a brain, too, don't you think?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

aaronj said:


> I didn't say I've done nothing. I just haven't taken the step to end it. If you haven't followed along, perhaps you should reread the thread. Beyond balls, a man needs a brain, too, don't you think?



That is where you are wrong I read every word you wrote....here is how I see it, you busted your ass to make living for you and her, you sacrificed time away from the family to give them a good life, so there were times you sucked as a dad and husband, the bottom line is you married a serial cheater who wanted so much ch attention went out of her way to meet up with them, she broke her vows, blamed you, and you are hundreds a mile away because she won’t follow you, and you can’t tell me for certain she is still not cheating....am I missing something?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

aaronj said:


> Where did I say it was "unfair"? I don't recall ever using that language. I don't recall ever saying that I didn't willingly lake the decision to go ahead with the wedding. I don't recall ever suggesting that I don't have the power to change my situation. Perhaps you need to focus on reading comprehension?


Yeah I know. I'm just trying to figure out why you are posting about it?

I'm sorry man post like this are like post where someone who never took a science class complains why they can't be an astronaut. With the choices you made and continue to make your life isn't going to ever be any different. It's like gravity, serial cheaters suck to be married to. News at 11.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

There were so many memes to pick from.....I pick....this one: 









She cheated on you prior to marriage. That's when you should've left. But you didn't. 

Then you discover she was having an emotional affair and fantasized about you drowning in a lake so she could run off. That was the second time you should've run. 

But then her lover gets killed somehow. And you stay with her for another 10 years. 

So your entire life is a sham. You stupidly married a woman that doesn't love, and that has carried on multiple affairs. And now it sounds like you have either a volcanic rage boiling under the surface for everything your wife has put you through, or you have a mountain of resentment. And because you're a good little boy, you took your vows VERY seriously. Even though those vows clearly meant nothing to your wife. 
And because you think she is mentally ill (being a crappy person is NOT a mental illness), and whatever other misguided reasons, you stayed with her. For better or worse, richer or poorer, and whatever else the vows say.
Even though she clearly ignored those vows. 

I don't think you're Lon Hamilton. At least in the movie the girl left him so he could go find someone that loves him and doesn't cheat on him. 
You're Lon Hamilton's...second, worst case scenario. Because you got the girl, but you didn't get her heart. So you've been married to someone that doesn't love you, and are trying to tell yourself you're a good person because you stuck by her and are keeping your vows. Congratulations. You have kept your marital vows! It only cost you your happiness and spending life with someone that actually loves you!


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Broken at 20 said:


> There were so many memes to pick from.....I pick....this one:
> View attachment 71402
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

sokillme said:


> OK you are probably right. I just get sick of these stories frankly. And also I hate that "romantic" movie. That is like one of the most toxic stories I can think of and it's packaged into this nice romantic bow. All these people grow up thinking how great it is, hell I even did at one point. Anyway I am sorry if I over reacted.
> 
> Besides that, "Love of her life" has to be in perspective of who she is. What is it worth to be the "love of someones life" if they had to cheat two weeks before the wedding to figure it out?
> 
> I think we all agree that OP is in this situation by his own doing and it's way past time for him to accept that. And if your point is from he decided to forgive her and assuming it's true that she never cheated she has held up her end of the bargain. In other words at the point after she cheated, but she still cheated, and frankly in my mind there is no statue of limitations when it comes to that.


Oh, there's absolutely NO reason to apologize, I wasn't offended, and I don't think you over-reacted at all!! 
I think your contributions on here are priceless, and I was only trying to clarify what I thought the OP was going through...and I know I could be completely wrong about everything...I just wanted to offer a different perspective.

Also, I completely agree with your basic belief about what happened and what he should have done to begin with!


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