# Help with the 180!!



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Real quick overview...married 10 yrs, 2 kids. Wife had an EA and refuses to admit it was an EA...typically friend BS. She told me she wants a divorce this past Sunday (hasn't filed yet). I flicked the switch yesterday and started the 180. Haven't seen her much since she had to go out of town on business. We live in the same house and plan to because I'm not leaving since she is making the decision to destroy our family. She is obsessed with getting the terms of our divorce finalized ASAP. She is deathly afraid that the D will turn ugly and I'll fight her for custody and assets. Up to her, the terms would be done by next week. This is really stressing her out. I like that even though I love her. We need to wait a minimum of 6 months to finalize a divorce in our state. I don't want to complete the terms until the last possible moment. My main goal is that she has an epiphany and decides to own her wrong and decide to reconcile. I am prepared for that not happening though. Question is....How should I respond to her continual requests to talk about the D? My thought is to explain that I have been so damaged by her EA that I need time to clear my thoughts.....Not sure thats the best play though. She is obsessive and I can really see this being a recurring issue and I would like to be able to relieve the tension without bowing down to her...that won't happen. Done with that BS. Any advice out there????


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

"5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future"

She wants comfort from you that everything is going to be alright concerning the D. The prospect of D is frightening to her now that she's facing the reality that it will actually go through. I would give her no such encouragement or assurances. She wants it to be neat and tidy with little consequences for her, right? Keep her guessing, but continue to follow through with the D. You've got a good game plan there with not wanting to complete the terms until the last possible moment. 



reallyover? said:


> My main goal is that she has an epiphany and decides to own her wrong and decide to reconcile. I am prepared for that not happening though.


And that's the main purpose of putting D on the table, to get her out of the fog and give her a view of the consequences staring at her in the face. Let her stew in it and think about the consequences of her behavior. The fact that it takes 6 months to finalize a D in your state is good, in that it gives you both a grace period.

I would say that you don't want to talk about it right now and leave it at that. If she continually obsesses about it, then let her. Don't be so available to her, because that's what she wants. You need to work on yourself and detaching. Remember the 180 is for you and you alone.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Did you name yourself "Lord" or was it bequeathed by a higher power? Good stuff. Thanks.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Don't agree to any of her terms until you've researched your options. Click on the link below my signature and read as much as you can.

Good luck.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> Did you name yourself "Lord" or was it bequeathed by a higher power? Good stuff. Thanks.


No, it was the name of a Pirch32 warscript that I used back in the days of IRC.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Good links morituri! :smthumbup:


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks Mori....great site.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

reallyover?,

If she's talking about divorce its probably because she's already done some preliminary legal research of her own. If she is, as you put it, deadly afraid its probably because she realizes that the divorce may end up costing her dearly.

Above all, *DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOME* - this is cardinal rule #1. Many divorced fathers have rue the day they did this because it cost them something much more greater than money, access to their children.

I hope you truly follow the advice given by the links below my signature. It has been field tested by other men and you would be foolish not to - at the very least - seriously consider following it.

I wish you much success, no matter what the outcome.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Mori, thanks and I will. I have already told her that she is initiating the destruction of our family so she's moving out of the bed and if we can't live together in a civil manner....the house. Not going anywhere. My kids need a stable mind in their presence as much as possible. She hasn't done much research but has an appt for "guidance" with an atty on Monday. That will open her eyes in a major way. I left my career to move us home and she has been the bread winner for over 2 yrs. Also has no family in the area...I have a lot of support for the kids. We have a pretty decent stack of assets also. Plus, she had the EA and is initiating this ridiculous D. I have no intention of it getting ugly but I hope her atty tells her what could happen if it does.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

I feel like an idiot for continually looking for feedback but my head is so screwed up right now, I just want to make sure I'm thinking about this clearly.....

My wife sent me a text saying that she's trying to figure out my change in bahaviors (since starting the 180). My instinct is to reply with a long and detailed walk of the last year of my life. How her EA has caused sense of betrayal. How the year of groveling, pleading, basic pathetic behavior left me feeling worthless. How I am sad for her because she is going to be devastated when her "fog" lifts and she realizes what she's done to her family. How I completely disagree with her decision but that I completely accept the fact our marriage is over and I'm moving on to the next phase of my life, I'm getting my self respect back....most important thing is to love my kids through what is sure to be a devastating time for them...etc. 

Should I do this or not??? Again, I think it's obvious but this could be a big deal and I'm a frickin zombie right now.....thanks.

Just not sure if this is the play or to just let her figure stuff out over the long term.....


----------



## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

Keep it simple.

Ignore the text or reply back "You figure it out."


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

reallyover,

Until she wants to act like your wife, stop talking to her like a wife. Keep her guessing. Until she commits to you, she has no right to know how you feel or what you think. Assuming she's not an idiot, she knows she's acted immorally, betrayed you, and hurt you. That's why she won't admit to you what she's done, even though you know and she knows you know.

As totallyconfused said, ignore her text. I like his suggested response. You could also use, "You don't want to know." or "It's complicated." But the best strategy is to ignore anything that is relationship-based other than an apology. If she tells you a light bulb needs changing, get on it. If she tells you the kids need something, get on it. If she wants to talk to you about the divorce, ignore her.

For a possible reconciliation, the best thing you can do right now is to keep her brain focused on you. Change and mystery will help do that.

Read the 180 script until you can quote it like the Gettysburg Address.

Good luck.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Glad I asked that one.....thanks. Just deleted the manifesto I was starting.....


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

How about the following:

"I'm just preparing myself to become a single man. And to tell you the truth, I'm kind of looking forward to it."


----------



## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

BTW, I've found in general that it's often carthartic to write out your response. To rand and rave or to perfect every word.

And then delete it.

For me i's the act of writing that releases the harmful emotions, not the actual sending. The sending is usually counter-productive.


----------



## avenrandom (Sep 13, 2010)

totallyconfused said:


> BTW, I've found in general that it's often carthartic to write out your response. To rand and rave or to perfect every word.
> 
> And then delete it.
> 
> For me i's the act of writing that releases the harmful emotions, not the actual sending. The sending is usually counter-productive.


^^ This I've used multiple times. There are actually some posts around the forums from others doing the same thing. I always do it via pencil and paper- just feels more solid to destroy it, instead of just closing the program without saving. 

"... and that's what I wanted to say to her. In the end, I burned the note in the back yard while drinking a cold one."


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Ok....random questions. Last night my brother and sis in law stopped in. My W and sis in law sat down and had a drink and just hung out, no talk about D, etc..just friendly chit chat. Kind of pissed me off....this woman is irrational and gutting my family. Should I ask my family to give an absolute cold shoulder???

Also, my mom has not yet spoken to my W since she learned of the D because I asked her not to. She is ready to unleash hell on the W. Should I let her out of the cage I've had her in???

My urge is to keep bringing up to my W that I feel bad for the kids because of what she is doing. I also think I should keep bringing up that I in no way agree what she is doing but I have accepted she is. I feel like I should occasionally bring up her EA in an attempt to shake her from the fog of it. I guess the question is, should I keep trying to interject guilt on her while I'm working the 180? It is tough to see her in a "good mood" even though I realize it's an act.

She also wants to tell the kids soon. She has moved into our guest room. I have no idea how they will react. If they will understand what she is saying. I don't plan on saying much. I remember my Dad telling me about his divorce and I just don't think I want my kids to have the memory of me breaking that news. I will be a strong source of support though.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I truly feel for you.

Unfortunately you gain nothing bt pining for a woman who no longer exists. See her for who she truly is, a strange woman who inhabits the body of the woman you once loved. She may look, act and sound like your wife but she is definitely NOT your wife and thus she should be treated accordingly.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> Ok....random questions. Last night my brother and sis in law stopped in. My W and sis in law sat down and had a drink and just hung out, no talk about D, etc..just friendly chit chat. Kind of pissed me off....this woman is irrational and gutting my family. Should I ask my family to give an absolute cold shoulder???
> 
> Also, my mom has not yet spoken to my W since she learned of the D because I asked her not to. She is ready to unleash hell on the W. Should I let her out of the cage I've had her in???
> 
> ...


I see that you want to guilt your WW out of the fog by having your family berate her and using the thought of the kids to make her come to her senses. I've never read of this happening in all the stories that I've read. morituri has it right, this woman is not the woman you married, not while she is in the fog. You need to understand that *YOU CANNOT MANIPULATE your WW *into coming to her senses, for the simple fact that nothing will work, she has to come out of the fog on her own. I don't know if you've read any forums that cater to cheating, but I have. When they are in the fog, their whole world/reality is focused on themselves, their feelings, and their affair partner. 

This is often called the affair bubble. They are not thinking of their children, family, relatives, or you at the moment. In that state of mind, the children are merely an after thought, and they assume "the kids will be okay". In her foggy state of mind, she thinks that the kids will be okay while she and her OM ride into the sunset together and live happily ever after. I've read stories where the WS wants to introduce their own children to the children of the OP and they can be one big happy family. In others, the WS wants their children to meet the OM/OW, and they think their children will be thrilled to be with the OM/OW. That is the way they think while they are in the fog. The fantasy is mind boggling. So do you actually think you can throw a guilt trip on them while they are thinking this way? Nope. See how she wants to tell the children soon? 

They have to come back to reality on their own, and that means making them face the reality that the marriage is over and the family unit is broken up. And that means going through the process of D. Sometimes even that doesn't work.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Lord and Mori thanks again. Lord you hit it on the head. The most unselfish person I have ever known is doing the most selfish thing I've ever seen.....


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

As others have said, words and emotions won't do the trick. What might snap her out of it is reality. Get a lawyer and start with separation proceedings on your way to divorce. Don't think that you're giving up because the two of you can call things off at any time.

But, her moving out of the house might snap her out of it. The reality of you not continuing to support her financially and emotionally might snap her out of it. A court order precluding her from bringing the other man around her kids might snap her out of it.

I'm sorry for you and your kids, but you have to protect your interests and their interests.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

PHT, thanks for the insight. What really snap her out of it is that she is meeting with her lawyer for the first time on Monday. Brief history....I had a successful career and I left it about 2 1/2 years ago to move our family back home. She has been the primary breadwinner over that time. I am starting a new business that is pretty much pathetic due to my battles with these marital and depression issues for the last year. I think I would be considered the primary caregiver over this time period. Also, I have a significant family presence in the area. She has none. I hope her atty shows her a worst case scenario......alimony, possible loss of custody, child support, etc. that might get her to remove her head from her sphincter. I'm hopeful but not counting on it....we'll see.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Talked to atty today. She scared the hell out me....wife might try to allege abuse etc to get me out of the house. I filed for D. Can't believe it. Sick to my stomach right now but need to recover and work the 180. Don't know when to tell the W.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Carry a VAR with you at all times, maybe even a cam recorder, cover yourself on all bases. Do not tell you wife anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Agree with EZ. Keep that voice-activated recorder in your pocket 24-7. All conversations, especially arguments, should be recorded.

Stay on the 180 and stay cool.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

reallyover? said:


> Talked to atty today. She scared the hell out me....wife might try to allege abuse etc to get me out of the house. I filed for D. Can't believe it. Sick to my stomach right now but need to recover and work the 180. Don't know when to tell the W.


I hope you're following the recommendations on dadsdivorce.com: Lessons Learned - Before and During.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Ok...things are going well on the 180 front. One issue....she talked to her Atty today. Pretty sure she was told to spend more time with kids to prove caregiver status....gets off work earlier than usual. plays games with kids, etc........She wants alone time with them since I'm taking them away for a few days so I leave for almost 3 hours. I come back just before bedtime for kids and am an immediate a-hole because I am interfering with her time with kids....wtf? Plan to talk to her about it....she's a frickin emotional wreck.

She seems to see me with such hate right now.........


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

NZHappy said:


> Maybe I'm dense - but why are you filing for divorce? I thought your wife was going to do that?
> 
> Also - did I miss the post where you told us all that you love your wife and want to win her back or did you just not say that?
> 
> Good luck!


He posted his WW refuses to come out of the fog in his other thread in the divorce forum. She is still denying and denying. This is why jumping between threads in othe forums makes it hard to follow a story.


----------



## reallyover? (Jun 21, 2011)

Lord, you're correct. I am done with this thread....everything will be in divorce section.


----------

