# the stepdaughter



## Marianna2018 (Feb 7, 2018)

My husband and I got into an argument about whether or not he should totally support his 18 year old daughter. He got angrier and angrier and then told me that him and his daughter were a team and I could either join the team or I could leave and we "could be friends". I asked if he was just that willing to give up our marriage and he said that no one comes above his daughter, not me or anyone else. After I left and he begged for me to come home, he said that the words he said were only said out of anger but I am having trouble believing that. So much trouble in fact that I find it hard to stay here with him. Any advice?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Your H should put you first in all things. Including the children.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Marianna2018 said:


> My husband and I got into an argument about whether or not he should totally support his 18 year old daughter. He got angrier and angrier and then told me that him and his daughter were a team and I could either join the team or I could leave and we "could be friends". I asked if he was just that willing to give up our marriage and he said that no one comes above his daughter, not me or anyone else. *After I left and he begged for me to come home, he said that the words he said were only said out of anger but I am having trouble believing that.* So much trouble in fact that I find it hard to stay here with him. Any advice?


*Give him only one chance to convert his words into action!

If that, in any way, doesn't even vaguely materialize, then stay gone and go seek an appointment with a good family attorney about filing for divorce! No spouse should ever be be subjected to that!*


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I agree with your husband. His daughter and her support is his choice/obligation and he has the right to hold her above you, as long as he's honest about it. It was a weak move on his part backpedaling and trying to convince you to come back and forgive him. I personally prefer for everyone to know where they stand so that each person can make their own choice as to whether or not they want to be in that sort of relationship. My thought is that he will always hold his daughter above you and if you are good with that they you should stay with him and not bring it up again. But if you aren't then you should leave.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

how could anyone provide input either way on this without any type of details? Why is he having to choose between you and his child? What does he mean by totally supporting her? If supporting your viewpoint means abandoning his child, I would imagine he should support his child. An 18 year old daughter is no where near a real adult from where I stand. Care to elaborate?


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## username77 (Dec 27, 2017)

If I divorced and it came down to a woman or my daughter. My daughter wins that one every time. If she's 18 and a well behaved girl there's no reason why he shouldn't be supporting her and you should be angling for her to leave the house and driving that wedge between them. 18 today is not like it was 50 years ago, or even 30 years ago. If the daughter is a behavior nightmare that's a different story.

50% of marriages end in divorce, 80% of the time women file for it. I don't know many daughters who have divorced their father, especially when it seems like they have a good relationship. Blood's thicker than water, she's blood, you're not.

Basically, going all in with a wife over a daughter is a bad bet. Odds are the wife will be long gone, and it will be the daughter taking care of you when you're old.

I respected your husband when he made his stand, I lost respect for him when he backpedaled from it.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I respectfully disagree. This is one of the dilemmas of blended families. Your H has a much longer history with his daughter than he does with you. While I think it dumb to totally support an adult child, I see it all the time (usually it is women who still have 20something sons living at home still with no jobs, no education and no prospects of either) that is not for me to decide. All I can do is either accept or not accept the arrangement (I have always chosen not to accept). But I have no right to interfere in that relationship. 

As for your situation. If what started as a discussion over a disagreement escalated into an argument, it would depend on who escalated it. I think there is probably some blame on both sides here. I think you were wrong to try to interfere (especially if it wasn't affecting you financially) and I think he was wrong to lay it out in such black and white terms. As I said, I personally feel I have no right to interfere with the bond between a parent and a child and I say this as step father.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

*Deleted*

Post irrelevant after OP's clarification.


e.t.a. If there is a particular reason why he shouldn't be supporting his daughter, you need to make that clear, you haven't, so I have to assume there is no extenuating circumstance. You also might want to clarify "totally support" and why her mother has no hand in this.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

Kids first. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Tell us a bit about his daughter. 

When did she graduate from high school?

Is she in college or getting any kind of vocational training?

Does she have a job?

Does she live in the same home with you and your husband? Or does she have her own place?


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

As a parent and a step parent, I can see both sides of this argument. 

I am all for supporting my kids and help them as they get through college. I would do anything for them, but they pull their weight. They earn enough during the summers to cover all their personal expenses & books, they have scholarships, and maintain excellent grades. Regardless, my wife, their step mom, still thinks less than great things about them and believes they should doing more.

On the flip side, my wife has two kids as well. The oldest finished college and has a decent job. He is growing into an adult and he has his moments, but is doing pretty well. The youngest (20) lives at home, has minimum wage job, has not finished HS, smokes to much dope, and in general lives a less than productive life. I believe that his poor attitude/judgment/laziness justifies holding him accountable for his actions. My wife agrees something needs to be done but feels so guilty over her divorce and what has happened to her kids that she basically does nothing. And I am not allowed to do anything. Basically, I parent my kids and she parents hers. Not the best solution for a blended family, but with everyone coming and going to other parent's houses, it has been a bit of a zoo.

To the OP, I guess you need to determine for yourself if this man and his kid(s) are worth the investment of your time and emotions. I will say that your husbands words were out of line and I suspect were guilt driven to some degree. Having a step-child at home that is almost completely supported by his Mom, I would argue against totally supporting her. By letting them slide and covering their expenses, they never feel or learn any responsibility. Why should they, they have everything provided and have no motivation to do anything. Without _clear cut _boundaries and rules, you will end up with a basically a leech. Based on your husbands response, unless he receives some good counseling to overcome his personal guilt, you are potentially setting yourself up for disappointment.

In hindsight, I would not do it again.


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## Marianna2018 (Feb 7, 2018)

The whole thing started because she lives with her mother and her mother calls and tells him that she needs money on top of the child support and he gives it. Then he goes to visit his daughter and she tells him that her mother moved out and abandoned her, even though she has this guy living with her. then she tells him that her mother pawned her good jewelry and she needs the money to get it back but she doesn't have the pawn ticket. So he comes home and tells me that he is going to pay her bills and her rent and on and on while I am paying the bills for us, including the rent and car payment...and we were suppose to be saving for a house but that is now out of the question. The child has not been neglected in any way. She gets make up that costs more than my wedding ring cost him and I have bought her designer purses. So that is where it all started between me and him. When I brought up ur needs and expenses, I got the ultimatum about the "team".


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Marianna2018 said:


> The whole thing started because she lives with her mother and her mother calls and tells him that she needs money on top of the child support and he gives it. Then he goes to visit his daughter and she tells him that her mother moved out and abandoned her, even though she has this guy living with her. then she tells him that her mother pawned her good jewelry and she needs the money to get it back but she doesn't have the pawn ticket. So he comes home and tells me that he is going to pay her bills and her rent and on and on while I am paying the bills for us, including the rent and car payment...and we were suppose to be saving for a house but that is now out of the question. The child has not been neglected in any way. She gets make up that costs more than my wedding ring cost him and I have bought her designer purses. So that is where it all started between me and him. When I brought up ur needs and expenses, I got the ultimatum about the "team".


Ok, so this ^^^^ adds a whole new dimension to the discussion. This goes beyond supporting her, way beyond. If he is spending all his money enabling her poor choices while you spend all your money supporting him that is just wrong


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## Marianna2018 (Feb 7, 2018)

In response to EleGirl, the stepdaughter is still in high school. She has taken classes through the high school for being a hairdresser but was told she could not attend those anymore because she went into the bathroom and pierced her lip with a safety pin. She still attends regular classes though. She only goes to school for half a day and then works as a waitress a couple of evenings a week. (Just started there. Was working at the ice cream parlor). She lives with her mother and some guy that works as a waiter. The rest of the time she is in bed sleeping because she is so tired. She tried to get her mother arrested about 4 months ago because she wanted to throw a party and her mother had told her no. She has quite the colorful history of stories and lies. I've only been around the girl twice. There is no wanting to start a family with her. As he put it, maybe if someday she feels ready. The couple of times that we went together to pick her up for a visit, I was asked to sit in the back seat so she could sit up front. Just so many ways to make me feel like I am an outsider. When we started the marriage, we split all the bills and helped each other if things occurred that exceeded our means. I have six kids and they are all grown: the youngest being 21 and they all pull their weight. I also have 13 grandchildren who I am the only one who buys them gifts at Christmas and the money cannot interfere with the bill money. Just seems a little unfair. I'm not saying that we shouldn't help her if she needs it, but his way of looking at it upsets me. I would have never said those things to him. I would have tried to discuss it as a "we" problem, not just present it like he was going to do it and that was all there is to it, and all the responsibilities fall on me for the bills.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Yeswecan said:


> Your H should put you first in all things. Including the children.


So he should throw his daughter out into the street?

I should have read the whole thread first.


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## Marianna2018 (Feb 7, 2018)

The stepdaughter lives with her mother and some guy that works as a waiter that it never has been made very clear how he managed to move in there. Her mother is a teacher and at first her mother tried to say that the guy was one of her students(she teaches math online?). Anyway, she does not live with us.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Marianna2018 said:


> The stepdaughter lives with her mother and some guy that works as a waiter that it never has been made very clear how he managed to move in there. Her mother is a teacher and at first her mother tried to say that the guy was one of her students(she teaches math online?). Anyway, she does not live with us.


You don’t only have a stepdaughter problem,you have a husband problem too.
If you get rid of the husband problem then presto! the stepdaughter problem disappears too.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Marianna2018 said:


> In response to EleGirl, the stepdaughter is still in high school. She has taken classes through the high school for being a hairdresser but was told she could not attend those anymore because she went into the bathroom and pierced her lip with a safety pin. She still attends regular classes though. She only goes to school for half a day and then works as a waitress a couple of evenings a week. (Just started there. Was working at the ice cream parlor). She lives with her mother and some guy that works as a waiter. The rest of the time she is in bed sleeping because she is so tired. She tried to get her mother arrested about 4 months ago because she wanted to throw a party and her mother had told her no. She has quite the colorful history of stories and lies. I've only been around the girl twice. There is no wanting to start a family with her. As he put it, maybe if someday she feels ready. The couple of times that we went together to pick her up for a visit, I was asked to sit in the back seat so she could sit up front. Just so many ways to make me feel like I am an outsider. When we started the marriage, we split all the bills and helped each other if things occurred that exceeded our means. I have six kids and they are all grown: the youngest being 21 and they all pull their weight. I also have 13 grandchildren who I am the only one who buys them gifts at Christmas and the money cannot interfere with the bill money. Just seems a little unfair. I'm not saying that we shouldn't help her if she needs it, but his way of looking at it upsets me. I would have never said those things to him. I would have tried to discuss it as a "we" problem, not just present it like he was going to do it and that was all there is to it, and all the responsibilities fall on me for the bills.


There is a thing known as tough love. Your husbands daughter will never take personal responsibility for herself with him doing this. 

The thing you need to do is put half of the bills on his shoulders. Tell him he can do whatever he wants for his kid but he has to take care of his responsibility in his own household as well.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Marianna2018 said:


> My husband and I got into an argument about whether or not he should totally support his 18 year old daughter. He got angrier and angrier and then *told me that him and his daughter were a team and I could either join the team or I could leave* and we "could be friends". I asked if he was just that willing to give up our marriage and he said that *no one comes above his daughter, not me or anyone else.* After I left and he begged for me to come home, he said that the words he said were only said out of anger but I am having trouble believing that. So much trouble in fact that I find it hard to stay here with him. Any advice?


Nope. No way. Spouse first, always (obviously not to the detriment of the children, before people jump on me).

Your husband shouldn't be giving the mother any money over and above child support. Certainly not paying the rent/bills and getting things out of pawn. What does SD do with her money? You MUST make him responsible for half the bills in your home, set up a budget that you both will pay X amount each for bills, put X amount into an account for savings and then the rest, you can both do what you wish.

He is failing her in spades by continually bailing her out. She'll never learn to take responsibility and stand on her own two feet.

I say all of this as a stepmum who absolutely adores her darling stepdaughter (even when she's a ratty teen bahahahaha). I would have no issue in US continuing to support her through young adulthood, provided that she was a good girl who was respectful, either worked or studied (or both) and contributed to the household through cleaning/maintenance etc. Same would go for our bio children if we had them. 

No way would we support and enable bratty, ****ty young adults. They would be told to GTFO.



Marianna2018 said:


> The couple of times that we went together to pick her up for a visit, *I was asked to sit in the back seat so she could sit up front.* Just so many ways to make me feel like I am an outsider.


Omfg are you serious?????? Wtf????? Oh heck no!

To be very clear - the problem here is not your stepdaughter, it's your husband. This continues because HE allows it. He's failing both as a father and a husband.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

He enabling her to be a spoiled brat.

He should give her the ultimatum. 

Daughter I love you and will suport you as long as your trying to better yourself by either going to school to learn some job skills or finding a real job that will eventually be able to suport yourself. You can move in with me as long as you treat me and my lovley wife with respect . 

But right now your traveling down the slippery path to nowhere. And I am not going to continue to bail you out. 

Your choice my love and suport with you realizing that your fortunate to have it by respecting me and my wife and acting in a manor that shows it or time to spread your wings and do it alone.

I love you and its hard for me to do this but I will not help and watch your demise because of your poor attitude.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

This sounds like a whole boatload of drama. I'd have fled ages ago, personally.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

I tho k the most failed ideology is “putting children first”. First, that turns you into an enabler and them into entitled. Obviously this depends on the age and the situation, but it’s often the case. Second, these kids eventually are going to go on their merry way and you are now left, in the life you created, with or, without, your spouse. Thirdly, and most importantly, it teaches children that their children come before their happiness and their spouse. Remember when you are on an airline and they instruct you to put your gas mask on before your child’s? Same here.

Now, I come from a failed marriage where my ex didn’t think inout her in front of my children (which is total bs). But I wanted them to see how to cultivate a loving marriage (ok, didn’t work out as planned) and that my happiness is derived from me, not vicariously through them.

Clearly the kids have to come before a failing marriage or if your spouse is a step-Nazi. But within reason, this is your life, not theirs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well, with that additional info, she and her mother are out of control. And your husband is enabling their drama.

Your husband does have some financial responsibility to his daughter since she's still in high school. But he also has financial responsibility for himself and his household. 

His daughter has some serious emotional problem.. she pearced her lip with a safetypin? At school to boot? WTF?

As others have said, you problem is not his daughter, he's the problem. Why would you want to stay with a man who is using your financially so that he can enable the drama caused by his daughter? Makes no sense to me.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ABHale said:


> So he should throw his daughter out into the street?
> 
> I should have read the whole thread first.


Nope. I just read more about the situation.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Marianna2018 said:


> The whole thing started because she lives with her mother and her mother calls and tells him that she needs money on top of the child support and he gives it. Then he goes to visit his daughter and she tells him that her mother moved out and abandoned her, even though she has this guy living with her. then she tells him that her mother pawned her good jewelry and she needs the money to get it back but she doesn't have the pawn ticket. So he comes home and tells me that he is going to pay her bills and her rent and on and on while I am paying the bills for us, including the rent and car payment...and we were suppose to be saving for a house but that is now out of the question. The child has not been neglected in any way. She gets make up that costs more than my wedding ring cost him and I have bought her designer purses. So that is where it all started between me and him. When I brought up ur needs and expenses, I got the ultimatum about the "team".


Is there an light at the end of the tunnel for the daughter getting on with her own funds or is it appearing to be a freeloader situation? I understand family helping family but sometimes it comes to throwing good money after bad. What is the daughters current outlook for financial independence?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

ABHale said:


> So he should throw his daughter out into the street?
> 
> I should have read the whole thread first.


I will stand by my first response and always will. Spouse first. Further, were did did I say throw the kid in the streets is the route to take?

Reading more into this the daughter and H are both an issue. H needs to have tough love. XW(mother of daughter), boyfriend and daughter are into freeload mod IMO. 

Sorry, some children parents will not reach not matter what they say, throw money at or support to the best of their ability. I have a few in my family.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Look, you aren't going to change your husband. It is perfectly fine for him to choose to put his daughter above you, regardless of the additional information you provided. It is also perfectly fine for you to choose to not continue a relationship with him. Again, as long as he is being honest then you can both make decisions that fit whatever your individual values are. I wouldn't want to condemn him or you for making an informed decision. Instead of complaining about it, just sit down and have an honest talk with him about what his values are, his boundaries, and his desire for the future and then see if yours matches his.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Marianna2018 said:


> The whole thing started because she lives with her mother and her mother calls and tells him that she needs money on top of the child support and he gives it. Then he goes to visit his daughter and she tells him that her mother moved out and abandoned her, even though she has this guy living with her. then she tells him that her mother pawned her good jewelry and she needs the money to get it back but she doesn't have the pawn ticket. So he comes home and tells me that he is going to pay her bills and her rent and on and on while I am paying the bills for us, including the rent and car payment...and we were suppose to be saving for a house but that is now out of the question. The child has not been neglected in any way. She gets make up that costs more than my wedding ring cost him and I have bought her designer purses. So that is where it all started between me and him. When I brought up ur needs and expenses, I got the ultimatum about the "team".


Screw that.

Yet another foolish adult over-indulging their 'princess' and playing the "my kids come first!" card.

Good. _Let _her come first. And while he's stupid enough to think he's such a wonderful parent for teaching his daughter how to continually use him as an ATM, he can pay the bills and the car payment too. Idiot.

I'd be out of there so fast his damned head would spin.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Marianna2018 said:


> The whole thing started because she lives with her mother and her mother calls and tells him that she needs money on top of the child support and he gives it. Then he goes to visit his daughter and she tells him that her mother moved out and abandoned her, even though she has this guy living with her. then she tells him that her mother pawned her good jewelry and she needs the money to get it back but she doesn't have the pawn ticket. So he comes home and tells me that he is going to pay her bills and her rent and on and on while I am paying the bills for us, including the rent and car payment...and we were suppose to be saving for a house but that is now out of the question. The child has not been neglected in any way. She gets make up that costs more than my wedding ring cost him and I have bought her designer purses. So that is where it all started between me and him. When I brought up ur needs and expenses, I got the ultimatum about the "team".


 Now, this changes things BIG TIME, I'm glad you clarified the situation. It also completely reverses my advice to you.Your OP made him look good and you look bad through lack of detail.
Take hubby up on his offer. He isn't trying to make you part of the team, he's trying to make you capitulate without him changing the situation at all. Basically, he said "if you don't like it leave", and you don't like it so leave him. This will likely go on for 10 more years or more until the daughter grows up. The ending of this particular situation won't end your problem though. The problem is your hubby seems inflexible, so that will rear it's head in conflicts you have as long as you are with him, especially after you have capitulated to his whims and he knows he can bulldog you around.


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## Marianna2018 (Feb 7, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Is there an light at the end of the tunnel for the daughter getting on with her own funds or is it appearing to be a freeloader situation? I understand family helping family but sometimes it comes to throwing good money after bad. What is the daughters current outlook for financial independence?


The stepdaughter changes her mind weekly about what she plans for her future. Sometimes it is a hairdresser, then she wants to manage a band, then she is an artist...never anything solid. She didn't take any courses in high school either to major in anything. All she does is skip from job to job. If she works where her friends work and the boss makes her mad because he says something to one of her friends, well she up and quits.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Marianna2018 said:


> The stepdaughter changes her mind weekly about what she plans for her future. Sometimes it is a hairdresser, then she wants to manage a band, then she is an artist...never anything solid. She didn't take any courses in high school either to major in anything. All she does is skip from job to job. If she works where her friends work and the boss makes her mad because he says something to one of her friends, well she up and quits.


Get her to join the military. That will take care of most of these problems. Of course she has to graduate from high school with decent grades first.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Get her to join the military. That will take care of most of these problems. Of course she has to graduate from high school with decent grades first.


 This is a great idea, but considering her other job choices (hairdresser, band manager, artist) are all fairly light work, party centric jobs, the military is probably not even close to being on her radar. It would give her the best chance in life at this point though.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> This is a great idea, but considering her other job choices (hairdresser, band manager, artist) are all fairly light work, party centric jobs, the military is probably not even close to being on her radar. It would give her the best chance in life at this point though.


When I was in the Army, there were plenty of young women and men who had as much focus as this OP's step daughter. After 3-4 years in the military they were focused and knew what they wanted in life. Actually most of them were turned around in boot camp.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Marianna2018 said:


> The stepdaughter changes her mind weekly about what she plans for her future. Sometimes it is a hairdresser, then she wants to manage a band, then she is an artist...never anything solid. She didn't take any courses in high school either to major in anything. All she does is skip from job to job. If she works where her friends work and the boss makes her mad because he says something to one of her friends, well she up and quits.


It would be in your H best interest to help with some guidance and direction. Not cash. I suspect your H daughter is following in the footsteps of her mother and friends. Not much stability in her life(not all to her own fault). The daughter will not get out of this until she is ready to get out of it. That may never happen. Until then, the purse strings should tight to a point.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> When I was in the Army, there were plenty of young women and men who had as much focus as this OP's step daughter. After 3-4 years in the military they were focused and knew what they wanted in life. Actually most of them were turned around in boot camp.


I had a similar experience with boot camp, some serious losers turned into soldiers. But the modern military is not necessarily the same. I have two nephews who served after 9/11, and both told me the losers were coddled all the way through. Things may have changed since they've again tightened recruiting standards, both of my nephews are civilians now.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> When I was in the Army, there were plenty of young women and men who had as much focus as this OP's step daughter. After 3-4 years in the military they were focused and knew what they wanted in life. Actually most of them were turned around in boot camp.


 I fully get what you are saying and have seen the proof myself. My point is how do you convince the lazy, insolent 18 year old to sign up.


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## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

Yeswecan said:


> Your H should put you first in all things. Including the children.


As I am a divorced father of 2 and dating a single mom of 3, I have done a lot of research regarding blended families. 

The conclusion is that the marriage must come first, must be stable and united in the face of the stepfamily. Otherwise, the competing children's interest with the best interest of the marriage...eventually ends in divorce. Which is why blended family marriage divorce rates are even higher than first marriages. 

having said that, I am having a really hard time applying it to real life, with my gf. No I am not mistreating my kids (my daughter is having huge jealousy issues and I just started a thread on it) but the gf and I have talked about marriage and what it would and should look like.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

M042 said:


> As I am a divorced father of 2 and dating a single mom of 3, I have done a lot of research regarding blended families.
> 
> The conclusion is that the marriage must come first, must be stable and united in the face of the stepfamily. Otherwise, the competing children's interest with the best interest of the marriage...eventually ends in divorce. Which is why blended family marriage divorce rates are even higher than first marriages.
> 
> having said that, I am having a really hard time applying it to real life, with my gf. No I am not mistreating my kids (my daughter is having huge jealousy issues and I just started a thread on it) but the gf and I have talked about marriage and what it would and should look like.


A united front will always prevail IMO. This united front will pertain to situations concerning the children, parents of each spouse as well as family members. Always support the other. 

Now, the H in this situation my be looking for support of the OP in this thread. However, as it unfolded it appears the H is not looking at the situation clearly. The daughter, IMO, is bailed out on a consistent basis and freeloading. H may not be seeing that. The OP is seeing past the smoke screen from the daughter.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I fully get what you are saying and have seen the proof myself. My point is how do you convince the lazy, insolent 18 year old to sign up.


My dad had a way. The day my brother graduated from high school, my father asked what his plans were. My brother said that he did not want to go to college and was just going to find any old job. So my dad asked my brother to take a drive with him. He drove my brother to the recruiter and told him to sign up. My brother did. After 4 years in the Army working with nuclear weapons, my brother got out and got a degree in biology. Then went on to an MS in engineer. This year he retired after a 30+ year career with as an engineering & project management. Had my father no done that, I doubt my brother would have had that career.

I suppose today the way to do it is to tell the child that they are now 100% responsible to support themselves and with no training or advanced education the only way they can support themselves is to join the military. And then stand by it.


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