# Something Feels Off



## Sports Fan

Hi everyone. Long timer reader, contributor here.

Lately a few things have caught my suspicion red flags to speak.

No sex in 6 weeks. Wife changed her Apple ID password. She is taking care of her appearance, however no strange phone calls, excessive going out etc. She goes straight to work and comes home. She does have a meet up to a local bar with a female friend once a fortnight which i have confirmed. What goes on there i dont know.

Her Phone Code is still the same. I used to monitor with Web Watcher but that became redundant when she changed Apple ID Password.

I have now purchased Spyera. Very expensive. It claims it can monitor in realtime, intercept everything even if deleted, and listen in to her conversations in real time even if she is not on the phone.

Problem is i need to jail break the phone by Installing Cydia. I seem to be having issues installing Cydia and im no computer dummy.

My question is does anyone know much about Cydia app and installation and how well Spyera works and ease of installation undetected as it claims to be?

I will make it clear that if i catch my wife out on something then i will end the marriage.

A bit of backstory so you are in the loop on why these actions.

Been with my wife for 12 years in total.

One day about 3 years ago whilst out shopping with her i noticed that my wife had a pin code on her iphone. 

I asked her why she needed a pincode and she responded that she was sick and tired of the kids grabbing her phone playing app games and draining her battery.

I found this response strange as our kids were away with her parents holidaying that week. 

I worked out that the pin code was roughly 1 - 2 days old.

That Saturday before heading off to my sporting commitments i hid a VAR which i use for work and before my days on TAM in the car.

I wasn't really expecting much at most i thought she had probably had a guy friend calling her that she obviously did not want me to know about.

Not long after i left for my game she called me early on to see if my game was still on cause there was some doubt due to weather.

I responded yes and she should drop by. She said maybe.

Later during the day i tried calling her and she did not answer.

I tried repeatedly and she would not pick up the phone.

When i arrived home she was coming out of the shower. She was wrapped in a bath towel and she pounced on me and instigated sex.

When we were finished i asked her where she was that day and why she had not picked up her phone.

Her response was she went shopping to 3 different shopping centres and had forgot her phone in the glove box.

I did note to myself that she had come home with nothing.

It was an anxious 2 days before i could retrieve the VAR from the car.

On the Monday before going to work i retrieved the VAR and thats when my world fell apart.

The VAR had caught the other man calling her asking her out that day. 

It was quite obvious it was a man she met a week before. I had bought her a Race Car Voucher for her to drive but was unable to attend due to work and she went alone. There she met the FWIT as i refer to him.

The VAR caught some chit chat are you married, where he works, she works etc.

Obviously she met up with him at his shop and they went out from there.

The VAR caught the return conversation home when he rings her whilst she is in the car, telling her he had a great time, asking her if husband suspects anything and they were both making fun of me as i dont have a clue.

They made plans to meet up again in a few days. Long story short i confronted she denied i stupidly pulled out the VAR and played it to her.

She cried, she begged for forgiveness turned on the taps of sex for a month.

I did impose consequences which were no friends of the opposite sex ever, no phone numbers, exchanged, password transparency etc. I confronted the other man without informing her he denied he knew she was married, i called him out on it as i told him i had it on audio and if he contacts her again i will be personally hand delivering the audio file to his wife. 

I sat on it for a month then i sent his wife the audio file on email, and posted him on cheaterville. Then i posted on his business facebook page the link to his cheaterville story under a false facebook account i created.

The consequences i imposed held good for about a year. Last year there was a single dad in my daughters sporting team. My girls and his girl became good friends.

I overheard wife tell him they will organise a play date soon and he can come over.

As i sometimes travel for work i made it clear to my wife that he is not to come over when im out of the house. 

The next week i was away for work. Came home on a Thursday afternoon to find the Single Dad over with his kids. By a stroke of good fortune my parents had decided to visit unexpectantly that day to see their grandkids. They knew i was away for work but popped in at 11am.

My parents informed me that he had arrived an hour after them and had been there all day until i arrived.

When i arrived home and walked in i could see the oh **** look on my wifes face. She tried to act all nice honey this and welcome back honey that. I basically snarled hello and proceeded to the longe room where my parents were. (The were not impressed and would not leave until i got home)

The single dad leaves 10 minutes later knowing full well he is not welcome.

After my parents left i confront my wife and informed her i will be confronting him next week at kids sport.

The following week i confronted him and had a private chat away from the kids activities where i explained realities to him and if he wanted to have play dates thats fine but in future he will be setting them up with me not my wife. Explained i dont appreciated men coming into my house when im out etc and to lose my wifes number.

Wife was utterly embarrased but i didn't care as she was warned. This bloke leaves the club a week later and is never seen again.


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## Decorum

Hi sports fan, I believe I have seen you around TAM.
I have a sick feeling in my gut because of what you shared.
You probably know the drill so I am Just sending support your way.

If you need a link to the standard evidence post it is in my signature, you already sound more tech savy than I am.

How else can we support you?


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## lordmayhem

Sports Fan said:


> Wife was utterly embarrased but i didn't care as she was warned. This bloke leaves the club a week later and is never seen again.


Well, that's fine...until the next guy your WW sets her eyes on. The problem is your WW. She is definitely on the hunt to have an affair. What are you going to do about it this time?

You already compromised one method of surveillance: The VAR. She will always be looking for that. You would have to spend good money and get one that she cannot find. 

I really don't see any good in the future, because she's the one trying to pursue OM while you're out of town.


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## dash74

You will need this sf 
How to Hide the Cydia App Icon After Jailbreaking an iPhone - AcisNI.com


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## Sports Fan

Thanks for your response Dash. As stated in my opening paragraph i have purchased Spyera to install on her Iphone. The only problem is it requires me to Jail break it using the Cydia Download App. I am having troubles downloading Cydia.


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## GusPolinski

No experience w/ Spyera, but I have jailbroken my own phone before. It's been a while, though.

Once you jailbreak, do yourself a favor and download an app called Poof.


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## Sports Fan

Decorum said:


> Hi sports fan, I believe I have seen you around TAM.
> I have a sick feeling in my gut because of what you shared.
> You probably know the drill so I am Just sending support your way.
> 
> If you need a link to the standard evidence post it is in my signature, you already sound more tech savy than I am.
> 
> How else can we support you?


Thanks for your support. At the moment i would like for someone to instruct me on how to install Cydia App. I am having troubles downloading it.

Thanks again


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## Sports Fan

GusPolinski said:


> No experience w/ Spyera, but I have jailbroken my own phone before. It's been a while, though.
> 
> Once you jailbreak, do yourself a favor and download an app called Poof.


Thanks Gus. I will investigate it later.


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## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> Thanks for your response. As stated in my opening paragraph i have purchased Spyera to install on her Iphone. The only problem is it requires me to Jail break it using the Cydia Download App. I am having troubles downloading Cydia.


It's been a while since I've jailbroken an iPhone, but the most recent tool that I've used was called Evasi0n. There is another tool called TaiG that seems to be gaining some popularity.


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## GusPolinski

Have you or your wife ever backed up her iPhone to a personal PC or Mac at home?

Any indication that she's changed the password for the e-mail account that's linked to her iTunes/iCloud account?

Do you use an iPhone as well? If so, have you enabled "Family Sharing" functionality in order to share purchases from the App Store and iTunes? If so, you can open the "Find My iPhone" app on your iPhone and see where hers is located, and all w/o logging into her iCloud account.

If you do have an iPhone but haven't enabled "Family Sharing", have the two of you "friended" each other via the "Find My Friends" app? If so, you'll be able to see her phone's location using that app and, again, you won't have to log into her iCloud account in order to do it.

Does your wife have any other Apple devices linked to her iCloud account?


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## Sports Fan

dash74 said:


> You will need this sf
> How to Hide the Cydia App Icon After Jailbreaking an iPhone - AcisNI.com


Thanks Dash will look at it later


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## Sports Fan

GusPolinski said:


> Have you or your wife ever backed up her iPhone to a personal PC or Mac at home?
> 
> Any indication that she's changed the password for the e-mail account that's linked to her iTunes/iCloud account?
> 
> Do you use an iPhone as well? If so, have you enabled "Family Sharing" functionality in order to share purchases from the App Store and iTunes? If so, you can open the "Find My iPhone" app on your iPhone and see where hers is located, and all w/o logging into her iCloud account.
> 
> If you do have an iPhone but haven't enabled "Family Sharing", have the two of you "friended" each other via the "Find My Friends" app? If so, you'll be able to see her phone's location using that app and, again, you won't have to log into her iCloud account in order to do it.
> 
> Does your wife have any other Apple devices linked to her iCloud account?


Thanks Gus. Will investigate the famliy sharing option first chance i get.


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## GusPolinski

dash74 said:


> You will need this sf
> How to Hide the Cydia App Icon After Jailbreaking an iPhone - AcisNI.com





Sports Fan said:


> Thanks Dash will look at it later


FYI Poof does the same thing, which is why I suggested it. I want to say that Poof was a bit more straightforward than SBSettings, but it's been a while.


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## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> Thanks Gus. Will investigate the famliy sharing option first chance i get.


You'll want to have any and all of the devices linked to her iCloud account in hand prior to enabling this, as a notification may be sent out to each of them.

Oh, and there should be some notification e-mails as well. You'll want to intercept those.


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## aine

SF this is horrible. However, you seem to be on the path of constant monitoring of your wife over an extended period of time. You are not dealing with the source of the problem (your wife and her philandering ways and your marriage relationship) but the symptom (her sneaking around).
Is this the way you want to live? How can you possibly have a fulfilling marriage or even a fulfilling life if you have to constantly look over your shoulder. She has already let you down twice and it seems you are preparing for a next time too. This is not a game, you have to change the rules. 
You have serious issues in your marriage if you wife keeps doing this. 
Does she still want to be with you? Do you still want her or is this for the kids? If it is for the kids wouldn't it be better to officially separate? What is your wife's problem to be exact, are you controlling (though no excuse for her behaviour), is there more to the story? 
What about marriage counselling, what about kicking her out? You have to do more than just keep monitoring her, this will not go well for you.


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## Mostlycontent

lordmayhem said:


> Well, that's fine...until the next guy your WW sets her eyes on. The problem is your WW. She is definitely on the hunt to have an affair. What are you going to do about it this time?
> 
> You already compromised one method of surveillance: The VAR. She will always be looking for that. You would have to spend good money and get one that she cannot find.
> 
> *I really don't see any good in the future, because she's the one trying to pursue OM while you're out of town.*



Hi Sportsfan,

I don't usually post much in CWI but your OP caught my eye. Lordmayhem is right. I'm not real sure what you are going to get out of this little venture. You've already caught her once and now seem resigned to a life of 007 activities until you catch her again.

Now it's solely up to you but I wouldn't think that's any way to live your life or have any degree of happiness but it's not my call to make.

Would you mind sharing with us what you hope to happen. Okay, hope is not the right word but what do you intend to happen once you install this software on her IPhone? Are you just looking for retribution of some kind or a more favorable divorce settlement?

I only ask because typically, you use software and VARS and such to obtain the necessary evidence but you've already accomplished that once. Anyway, I wish you well no matter what your objective may be.


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## Sports Fan

aine said:


> SF this is horrible. However, you seem to be on the path of constant monitoring of your wife over an extended period of time. You are not dealing with the source of the problem (your wife and her philandering ways and your marriage relationship) but the symptom (her sneaking around).
> Is this the way you want to live? How can you possibly have a fulfilling marriage or even a fulfilling life if you have to constantly look over your shoulder. She has already let you down twice and it seems you are preparing for a next time too. This is not a game, you have to change the rules.
> You have serious issues in your marriage if you wife keeps doing this.
> Does she still want to be with you? Do you still want her or is this for the kids? If it is for the kids wouldn't it be better to officially separate? What is your wife's problem to be exact, are you controlling (though no excuse for her behaviour), is there more to the story?
> What about marriage counselling, what about kicking her out? You have to do more than just keep monitoring her, this will not go well for you.


Thanks for your comment. To start off with i would like to say i am not prepared to put up with this and if i find a smoking gun i will divorce.

No i am not controlling. I provide quite well for her and the kids and she wants for nothing I suspect she has Borderline Personality Disorder altough this is no excuse.

Wife stuffed up once major and tested boundaries with the playdate however i will not tolerate a third time.


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## Sports Fan

Mostlycontent said:


> Hi Sportsfan,
> 
> I don't usually post much in CWI but your OP caught my eye. Lordmayhem is right. I'm not real sure what you are going to get out of this little venture. You've already caught her once and now seem resigned to a life of 007 activities until you catch her again.
> 
> Now it's solely up to you but I wouldn't think that's any way to live your life or have any degree of happiness but it's not my call to make.
> 
> Would you mind sharing with us what you hope to happen. Okay, hope is not the right word but what do you intend to happen once you install this software on her IPhone? Are you just looking for retribution of some kind or a more favorable divorce settlement?
> 
> I only ask because typically, you use software and VARS and such to obtain the necessary evidence but you've already accomplished that once. Anyway, I wish you well no matter what your objective may be.


Thanks for your comment. Yes i caught her once 3 years ago. She cried, and begged for forgiveness. Reconciliation occured after a lengthy talk and i set out my future expectations.

I have been around the block enough times to know that when sex dries up in the marriage barring some medically diagnosed issue that there is a real problem in the marriage.

If i confirm that sex has dried up cause of infedelity a second time around then i will be seperating and divorcing.

If it turns out to be another issue that is not connected to infedelity obviously i will try to work on the marriage problem


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## bandit.45

I don't think you are going to do a damn thing if you catch her again, just like you didn't do anything the first time....just like you didn't do anything the second time...

And she doesn't think so either, or else she wouldn't be throwing her legs up for every tomcat in the alley.


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## MattMatt

Sports Fan said:


> Thanks for your support. At the moment i would like for someone to instruct me on how to install Cydia App. I am having troubles downloading it.
> 
> Thanks again


Try downloading it with a different Web browser.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roselyn

You need to take your wife to a psychologist. She has issues to be fixed as she has cheated and would not have stopped if you have not caught her. Again, she broke the rule that you set and that is the scenario of "playdate" with the single dad. She is toying with fire as it excites her.

You also need to see a marriage counselor to see the root of the problem in your marriage that makes her seek other men. You've rugswept her first affair. I believe that she will cheat on you again if she thinks she can as you already know. 

You said that you will divorce if she messes up. I don't think that she believes you. Your life of looking over your shoulder when it comes to your marriage is not a healthy one. I know that you have children so your decision is a complicated one. Your choice to stay in this scenario...


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## arbitrator

healthwolfe said:


> Hi sports fan, I believe I have seen you around TAM.


*SportsFan: While I personally feel sorry for all that you have endured from your WW, I certainly salute all of your technological savvy and acumen!

That being said, it is more than apparent that your WW has a marked tendency to want to ferret out "greener pasturelands," more especially in your numerous vocational absences from home!

I am somewhat bewildered that one of the inherent stipulations of 
keeping your WW's plate unbroken in your married relationship was mandatory participation in MC. Barring that, how do you know for sure, other than to the "sexual barometer" test, that she's not either covertly fooling around on you, or in the very least, attempting to do so?

By having already been caught in a boldface lie by your electronic surveillance, she now knows, or certainly should know the full scope of your  modus operandi  and will remain all the wiser to it being further implemented on her!

Largely given her propensity to cheat, along with her track record, if I were in your shoes, I'd be worried that she was already trying to find a way to successfully circumvent the system! It's rather obvious that she has lost respect for you, thereby contributing to these unwarranted flings of hers! And given your numerous absences from her in your having to go do your job, what firm assurances do you have that "when the cat's away, the rat will 'not' play?"

A married husband and family man should never ever have to subject himself to needlessly worrying about what his W is doing in his vocational absence, more especially when she sports a rather shady track record!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61

Sport fan, any chance you can place a var at her work desk? She might be using the office phone exclusively and/or use a burner phone left at the office.


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## jsmart

Why should you have to police your wife. I would bet money that she has gone physical with the 2 POS that you caught. By her dropping the kids off at your parents and bringing man to your house, that was for sex. 

When a woman wants to cheat, sex will happen FAST. Remember a woman doesn't have do much to get a guy to bang them, especially if she's good looking with a decent body.

Personally I would file D. Move her out of the marriage bed. Implement the 180 to start detaching. Separate the finances. Expose to her family & friends. She wants to whure around, then let her do it on her dime. Work on yourself. Become the best version of yourself and be there for your kids. As for your wife, she's a traitor to your family and does NOT have your back.


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## dental

Very interesting thread about electronics and surveillance. What I'm missing so far is OP's motivation why he is staying in this marriage. At least in my book, when people engage in a long term relationship (for instance marriage) they willingly and voluntary choose to do so. When the energy of one of the spouses is directed outside of the marriage, and only by technological means the other spouse is able to prevent that, it's not a particularly healthy bond.

It is also an option to reconsider the marriage, chose to end it, and find a partner who at least has the same outlook.


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## alexm

Sports Fan said:


> If i confirm that sex has dried up cause of infedelity a second time around then i will be seperating and divorcing.
> 
> If it turns out to be another issue that is not connected to infedelity obviously i will try to work on the marriage problem


I just want to point out that the opposite is usually true - more sex tends to occur when one partner is having an affair, not less (or none).

This is normally out of guilt, or trying to cover up what's going on outside of the marriage. Or worse, the spouse has an increased sex drive due to what's going on, and you're available at that moment.

I would say that the sex drying up has nothing to do with a possible affair, and that it's marriage or attraction related. If she still has a healthy sex drive, then an affair can/will come later as a way of having her needs met, as opposed to your line of thought that sex has dried up because she's getting it elsewhere. That's just not usually the way it works.

What I would be concerned with is if there's a long period of no sex, followed by a 180 in her behaviour to the point where she's jumping you at a rate you haven't seen since you started dating. Early relationship hormones can carry over the honeymoon period she could be having with another man to you. That's how these things usually play out.


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## RWB

Off? 

Your marriage is a Train Wreck, your wife has jumped the tracks. Past time for consequences, "ya think".


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## alexm

I'm not usually a big fan of the surveillance method in certain cases, this being one of them. It's definitely effective in obtaining proof, but it doesn't quite solve the problem in the long run.

So OP says he will divorce his wife if she's caught again. He sets out to put the 007 on her in order to catch her (something he's already done in the past). But if she doesn't slip up again, then the marriage will continue, as I understand it.

Therefore, imo, OP is better served by laying down boundaries, ground rules, and effectively, the law. His wife has already been caught once. On a second occasion, she has broken the boundaries that OP had set (no male visitors, etc.) So what we now know is that she has no respect for OP's boundaries and is willing to break them.

So a more effective method of boundary-laying needs to be implemented, and it's not that difficult (certainly less so than surreptitiously jailbreaking phones, installing spy apps, putting VARS at her desk at work, etc.) Tell her you're doing these things. Take away her privacy.

It starts with a conversation, in which OP tells his wife that, due to past issues with boundaries etc., there is currently zero trust. If she wants to earn it back, she will have to do the following:

-provide access to her phone at any time (passwords, etc.)

- that her iphone will be connected to iCloud, etc. at all times, so that any and all text messages, changes to the phone, app installations, and so on, will be visible remotely

- that "find my phone" will be installed (if not already) and that GPS will be enabled at all times, viewable remotely

- that facebook, email, etc. will be fully shared and viewable by OP at any time he so chooses. Browser histories will not be erased, and a keylogger will be installed on the computer(s)


Basically, complete access to all of her electronic devices at all times, with zero tolerance for excuses why, for example, GPS was turned off, password was changed, etc.

Furthermore, if OP does not have one already, he can purchase a $50 webcam, and install it on a laptop, which is placed at or near the main entrance(s) to the house (front or back door for example). I have a Logitech webcam in which part of the software that comes with it enables motion detection, in which it will basically act as a security monitor, and record anything that moves within its range.

If you do online banking, monitor it. If she has her own account(s), have her give you the password, and check it regularly, and make her accountable for her spending.

As for at work, show up there once or twice a week. Mark your territory, and catch her off guard. Take her to lunch, stop in to say hi, whatever. Not only does this make you visible to others, it also reminds her that you can show up at any time, therefore making her sense of security wane a little.

As for her car or workplace, place VARS in both locations - but tell her you're doing so. If they're removed, or turned off, you'll know (or at least tell her you'd know, and scare her from attempting either).

When you're away for work, have your parents, or a friend, stop by the house unannounced once in a while. Doesn't have to be daily, but enough so that she knows she could be caught at any time. Even just a drive-by of the house would be enough. I assume the parents have a key to the house, so if they show up, knock, and there's no answer, they can let themselves in.

All of these methods are not designed to catch her, rather they're designed to scare her from doing things in the first place. Preventative.

Now, most of you here will disagree with me on this, and tell OP he must use stealth. I do usually agree, but in this case, he's already caught her once, and busted her breaking boundaries a second time (play date).

She knows about the VAR, and she knows that his suspicions are up.

So why hide it? Put it all out in the open, and make her scared enough that every wrong move she might make would mean the end of the marriage. Make it so difficult to sneak around (or make her think it is, anyway) that it won't be worth the effort, and that if and when she's ever tempted again, she'll think twice about it.

Currently, she has nothing to fear. She's been caught before, and she's broken your boundaries on another occasion, and there were no real consequences to speak of. There's nothing to prevent her from doing it again, just in a different way.

So clearly you don't WANT to divorce her, otherwise you already would have. So rather than sit around and wait for her to screw up again, it's time to use preventative methods, rather than reactive ones.

If you want to save this marriage, which it appears you do (hence the second and third chances), then you need a culture change at home. She may find it draconian, but that's her problem. If she finds a way to have an affair, then there's nothing, at that point, you could have done about it. If you prevent her from doing so, by using the methods above, then perhaps she'll take stock of the marriage and put more of an effort into it, rather than taking the easy way out.

That said, there's clearly something she's missing from you, and that needs to be worked on as well. While it's never a justification for an affair (or affair behaviour), nor your fault, it's almost always something that one spouse is missing, and it can be fixed.

But because you are not a "zero tolerance" kind of guy (which is fine), then harsh methods are required to a) put a stop to this, and b) find out, and fix, whatever has gone wrong over the years.

Otherwise, just sitting back and waiting to catch her a second (third? fourth?) time seems like rather a waste of energy, and is probably inevitable anyway. So what does that solve?


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## arbitrator

Sports Fan said:


> Hi everyone. Long timer reader, contributor here.
> 
> Lately a few things have caught my suspicion red flags to speak.
> 
> No sex in 6 weeks. Wife changed her Apple ID password. She is taking care of her appearance, however no strange phone calls, excessive going out etc. She goes straight to work and comes home. She does have a meet up to a local bar with a female friend once a fortnight which i have confirmed. What goes on there i dont know.
> 
> Her Phone Code is still the same. I used to monitor with Web Watcher but that became redundant when she changed Apple ID Password.
> 
> I have now purchased Spyera. Very expensive. It claims it can monitor in realtime, intercept everything even if deleted, and listen in to her conversations in real time even if she is not on the phone.
> 
> Problem is i need to jail break the phone by Installing Cydia. I seem to be having issues installing Cydia and im no computer dummy.
> 
> My question is does anyone know much about Cydia app and installation and how well Spyera works and ease of installation undetected as it claims to be?
> 
> I will make it clear that if i catch my wife out on something then i will end the marriage.
> 
> A bit of backstory so you are in the loop on why these actions.
> 
> Been with my wife for 12 years in total.
> 
> *One day about 3 years ago whilst out shopping with her i noticed that my wife had a pin code on her iphone.
> 
> I asked her why she needed a pincode and she responded that she was sick and tired of the kids grabbing her phone playing app games and draining her battery.
> 
> I found this response strange as our kids were away with her parents holidaying that week.
> 
> I worked out that the pin code was roughly 1 - 2 days old.
> 
> That Saturday before heading off to my sporting commitments i hid a VAR which i use for work and before my days on TAM in the car.
> 
> I wasn't really expecting much at most i thought she had probably had a guy friend calling her that she obviously did not want me to know about.
> 
> Not long after i left for my game she called me early on to see if my game was still on cause there was some doubt due to weather.
> 
> I responded yes and she should drop by. She said maybe.
> 
> Later during the day i tried calling her and she did not answer.
> 
> I tried repeatedly and she would not pick up the phone.
> 
> When i arrived home she was coming out of the shower. She was wrapped in a bath towel and she pounced on me and instigated sex.
> 
> When we were finished i asked her where she was that day and why she had not picked up her phone.
> 
> Her response was she went shopping to 3 different shopping centres and had forgot her phone in the glove box.
> 
> I did note to myself that she had come home with nothing.
> 
> It was an anxious 2 days before i could retrieve the VAR from the car.
> 
> On the Monday before going to work i retrieved the VAR and thats when my world fell apart.
> 
> The VAR had caught the other man calling her asking her out that day.
> 
> It was quite obvious it was a man she met a week before. I had bought her a Race Car Voucher for her to drive but was unable to attend due to work and she went alone. There she met the FWIT as i refer to him.
> 
> The VAR caught some chit chat are you married, where he works, she works etc.
> 
> Obviously she met up with him at his shop and they went out from there.
> 
> The VAR caught the return conversation home when he rings her whilst she is in the car, telling her he had a great time, asking her if husband suspects anything and they were both making fun of me as i dont have a clue.
> 
> They made plans to meet up again in a few days. Long story short i confronted she denied i stupidly pulled out the VAR and played it to her.
> 
> She cried, she begged for forgiveness turned on the taps of sex for a month.*
> 
> I did impose consequences which were no friends of the opposite sex ever, no phone numbers, exchanged, password transparency etc. I confronted the other man without informing her he denied he knew she was married, i called him out on it as i told him i had it on audio and if he contacts her again i will be personally hand delivering the audio file to his wife.
> 
> I sat on it for a month then i sent his wife the audio file on email, and posted him on cheaterville. Then i posted on his business facebook page the link to his cheaterville story under a false facebook account i created.
> 
> The consequences i imposed held good for about a year. Last year there was a single dad in my daughters sporting team. My girls and his girl became good friends.
> 
> I overheard wife tell him they will organise a play date soon and he can come over.
> 
> As i sometimes travel for work i made it clear to my wife that he is not to come over when im out of the house.
> 
> The next week i was away for work. Came home on a Thursday afternoon to find the Single Dad over with his kids. By a stroke of good fortune my parents had decided to visit unexpectantly that day to see their grandkids. They knew i was away for work but popped in at 11am.
> 
> My parents informed me that he had arrived an hour after them and had been there all day until i arrived.
> 
> When i arrived home and walked in i could see the oh **** look on my wifes face. She tried to act all nice honey this and welcome back honey that. I basically snarled hello and proceeded to the longe room where my parents were. (The were not impressed and would not leave until i got home)
> 
> The single dad leaves 10 minutes later knowing full well he is not welcome.
> 
> After my parents left i confront my wife and informed her i will be confronting him next week at kids sport.
> 
> The following week i confronted him and had a private chat away from the kids activities where i explained realities to him and if he wanted to have play dates thats fine but in future he will be setting them up with me not my wife. Explained i dont appreciated men coming into my house when im out etc and to lose my wifes number.
> 
> Wife was utterly embarrased but i didn't care as she was warned. This bloke leaves the club a week later and is never seen again.


*There are so many "red flags" of deception here in this passage alone that absolutely makes the mind boggle!

By your stated admission that her phone password was duly changed because of boyfriends clearly demonstrates that your "gut instincts" had to have kicked in!

And then with the kids being conveniently with their grandparents, your W checking in to see if your event would be played as scheduled; her noted absence from joining you at your event; not bothering to answer her cell phone when you called her, was quite suspicious in its own right! And who on God's green earth keeps their cell phone in a glove box? Did it ever occur to you that there may have been other verifiable phone calls or text messages to her that were happening on either side of your particular calls to her that she may have subsequently erased, but could easily be found on her portion of her written cell phone records?

But then you come driving up at home suddenly finding her all freshly showered but nearly  au naturale , and with her 
suddenly ripping your clothes off right then and there, all while being in the midst of a marital sexual drought, speaks volumes, in and of itself! I'd wager dollars to donuts that she was in the process of fastidiously cleaning herself up from that afternoons illicit escapade with her OM when you entered the scene. She jumped your bones both because of "guilt" and not having an excuse fully worked out. You likely and unknowingly subjected yourself to "sloppy seconds" that afternoon right in your very own marital bed where she could well have been gloriously banging her BF just sheer minutes removed from your unexpected arrival onto the scene!

You might well be employing the liberal tactic on her of "three strikes and you're out"; but I cannot help but believe that in her false tears of being caught and summarily sanctioned, then resanctioned and forgiven again, that she is simply playing you for a blue haze fool!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snerg

Sports Fan said:


> My question is does anyone know much about Cydia app and installation and how well Spyera works and ease of installation undetected as it claims to be?



Why?

Why waste this money?

Your wife is at the very least a 2 time cheater.

You know in your gut she is cheating - you know



Sports Fan said:


> I will make it clear that if i catch my wife out on something then i will end the marriage.


Why?

Why the threat?

You didn't do anything the other two times (that you caught) when she cheated. 

1) Get to a doctor now for STD test (doesn't matter if there hasn't been sex in six hours, six days, six weeks, six months, or six years. Get this test today)
2) Lawyer up - like yesterday. Know your rights
3) Separate finances
4) Start 180
5) Serve Divorce papers
6) counseling for you
7) get her out of your home and away from you


No talking.
No threats.
No discussion.
No ultimatums.

She is an unrepentant cheater.
She is up to her tricks again.

Why live with that? Why poison yourself with trying to find out if she is cheating? 

You know the signs. She's doing it again.

Now get yourself away from this albatross


----------



## italianjob

Sorry for what you're going through, SF, but I think that you're wife has shown a clear pattern of wanting to step outside the marriage at every turn. It may be time to stop being her guardian and just set her free, and go your own way...

After two previous instances, full transparency should be on. I would ask her why the password change and to give up her phone for your inspection. Refusal to do so should be considered admission of guilt.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I haven't posted in forever, but decided to because I think the OP should understand that surveillance is pretty much irrelevant in his situation. He is married to a serial cheater. She won't stop. She will tell him she will stop. She may even actually want to stop. But.... she will always give in when approached, and she will also probably always pursue available men when she sees an opening. People like this can't change. Maybe for a little while but not permanently. Trust me, I know. 

OP, if you are not okay with her cheating then you need to look at seeking a divorce, because based on what I've read she won't change. She isn't suited for a traditional marriage.


----------



## terrence4159

Ok you seem hell bent on working it out with this woman. So what I would do so to a lawyer have him draw out divorce papers putting down 50/50 custody of your kids and 0 child support and 0 alimony. Every thing you two on split eight down the middle and take that home and make your wife sign it.......tell her one more **** up and it gets filed and you are gone.


----------



## Chaparral

Actually, an increase in sex usually means the affair is not an in love type of affair, just sx for fun. Cutting off sex usually means she has fallen in love and is being fiathful to her new lover.


----------



## alte Dame

I hope you find your smoking gun so that you will have the courage to end this.

Your WW is a type of cheater who thrives off the attention of new men. She won't ever stop. If you could get into her head, you would be shocked at how little her thought processes resemble yours. She isn't thinking of marriage and family at all the way you are.

You fulfill some of her needs and other men fulfill other needs. You will never fulfill the needs that they do because the needs they fulfill are newness, excitement, and the sense of desirability/sexiness that goes with a new attraction. There will always be some other guy to do this for her. She will always have a secret, inner life. She is a serial cheater who just thinks differently from the norm.

It's like she and her OM's are in a secret underbelly of society. It will always be there. She'll do this until she is senile in a nursing home & even then she'll be trying to entice the male aides, because the lizard brain is the last to go.

Sorry, SF. I realize this is something of a rant, but I've known people like this and they are just different. You should get out whether you have your smoking gun or not.


----------



## GusPolinski

Two things...

1) @ReformedHubby, it's good to see you posting again. :smthumbup:

2) @Sports Fan, with my phone nerd spasms kicking in at the beginning of your thread, I guess I didn't get around to saying it, but I tend to agree w/ what most of the rest of the folks here are saying. I mean... at this point there's just no point, y'know...?

That said, if you just feel like you need that smoking gun, BELIEVE ME... I understand.


----------



## TAMAT

Chaparral said:


> Actually, an increase in sex usually means the affair is not an in love type of affair, just sx for fun. Cutting off sex usually means she has fallen in love and is being fiathful to her new lover.


Chaparral,

Thanks for posting that, it seems my W was in love with OM-1, but only had sex with OM-2, as she had a couple of new tricks after OM-2. Easier to rationalize that it was not cheating when it was "only sex" ouch!

Tamat


----------



## TAMAT

Sportsfan,

If you are going to stay with your WW, I think you need to ...

1) Get a polygraph, if she holds on to secrets, implicit lies, it will be that much easier for her to lie to you in the future

2) DNA tests for your kids

3) Postnup

Very sorry for this, it sucks even more when the affair evolves out of children's sports activities, as it destroys the innocence of that for you. 

Tamat


----------



## BrockLanders

The problem with Cydia is that it's package manager (aka app store) is there after you install it. Google a way of hiding it, everything else is really trivial. She won't know she's jailbroken any other way really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Be smart

My friend I feel sorry for you but please think about this : your wife cheated on yo,she talks about you with her lover/s and she talks bad things about you.

You caught her once,you caught her twice but what other times. 
She knows you are checking up on her and belive me she is going to "hide" from you.

Do you want to waste your life with THAT wife and always check on her.
Please life is to short to be vasted on people like your wife.

File for D and be happy ma friend


----------



## ThePheonix

Be smart said:


> Do you want to waste your life with THAT wife and always check on her.


Unfortunately many men who decide to stay realize they are not checking on her to see if she's cheating, but rather who she is now cheating with.


----------



## OldWolf57

I remember your posts from before SF.
Dude, you KNOW what it means !!!

She either unlock the damn account for you go over or she jets.
She knows she have NO RIGHT for ANY privacy concerning anything with her past except the bathroom.
So why play this game.
Approach her and ask her to give you the password. She ask why, "because I asked for it"!!!!

SF, you've been here long enough to trust your gut. You've read of the lunchtime quicky, and leaving work early, so don't even pretend.
Also you know she works fast, so if it's 6 weeks, you know she's been there done him dude. And if she was making fun of you with the 1st one, just think what she's saying after 6 weeks.

Sorry, but you know it and we know it.
Save that spy money for the lawyer man.


----------



## OldWolf57

Also, don't forget burners too. Maybe not talking in the car, but stepping outside at work, or while with the friend.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I agree with reformed hubby and was thinking the same thing. I don't know why you'd even bother with surveillance, you already know she's a serial cheat and liar. What more do you need to find?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Are postnuptial agreements valid in your jurisdiction?


----------



## Sports Fan

Hi Guys

I just want to clarify as there are so many wrong versions swinging around here.

1) I caught wife out once physical. Var confirmed that. On a first date. Something happened i dont know what. Doesn't matter whether it was kissing, oral, sex whatever, cheating is cheating in my book.
2) I have not rugswept anything. Problems were confronted and consequences imposed.
3) She did not drop the kids to my parents then have sex with the single dad. I play date was arranged for which i was aware would happen. She chose to disreguard the bit that he is not to come over when im not around. Yes clear boundary crossing and again something was done.
4) i am very sure if i confirm anything EA or Physical i am done. I am not naive and have more respect for myself.

Please read carefully before posting things that aren't true. I am a big supporter of this group and feel it gives real value to people in our situations howver it has highlighted that some posters do not read the story or comments accurately


----------



## Dyokemm

Sports Fan,

I agree...you have not rugswept her previous A you did deliver consequences and set boundaries.

But if she never fully confessed what she did do with that guy to you, then she has never had to truly face what she did, and therefore probably never developed true remorse IMO.

I think a full confession of the wrongs we have done is necessary to achieving true remorse.

If she was able to hide the full extent of what she did the first time, there is probably a small part of her that feels as if she was able to 'get away' with it to some extent.

Which might lead her to assume that as long as she can keep the full extent of her betrayals from you, you will not D her....that may be the lesson SHE has learned from the first A.


----------



## lordmayhem

Sports Fan said:


> She chose to disreguard the bit that he is not to come over when im not around. Yes clear boundary crossing and again something was done.


Did she have any excuse? What part of "single dad is not to come over when you are not around" did she not understand? Especially given her history, logically, that should be the last thing she would even consider. 

The problem is that she knowingly and wilfully did it because she thought she would not get caught. I know if I was caught cheating and was truly remorseful, if my wife said there were no single ladies to be brought to the house when she is not there, is a boundary that I wouldn't dare cross.

I mean really, if a person is truly remorseful, that should be a no brainer.


----------



## ConanHub

Dyokemm said:


> Sports Fan,
> 
> I agree...you have not rugswept her previous A you did deliver consequences and set boundaries.
> 
> But if she never fully confessed what she did do with that guy to you, then she has never had to truly face what she did, and therefore probably never developed true remorse IMO.
> 
> I think a full confession of the wrongs we have done is necessary to achieving true remorse.
> 
> If she was able to hide the full extent of what she did the first time, there is probably a small part of her that feels as if she was able to 'get away' with it to some extent.
> 
> Which might lead her to assume that as long as she can keep the full extent of her betrayals from you, you will not D her....that may be the lesson SHE has learned from the first A.


I'm of the same opinion. She has never been brought to task and had to face her behavior because you aren't fully aware and she hasn't fully confessed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

From my outside point of view, I have to wonder if you are in True R or False R considering the clear boundary she blatantly crossed.


----------



## autopilot

lordmayhem said:


> From my outside point of view, I have to wonder if you are in True R or False R considering the clear boundary she blatantly crossed.


That was my initial thought as well from reading all your posts, SF. Nowhere have you said that any marital issues were discovered or addressed...only consequences for the uncovered A.

I am not condoning any of what she has done. But, I'm reading between the lines that you haven't dug down through the layers to uncover the root of the betrayal or crossing of boundaries. It's more than just a passing glance, kind word or excitement of a casual fling. Otherwise she wouldn't have shown remorse from the first A or fear from the boundary breach of the second trust violation.

She's missing something from the marriage. Whatever emptiness she's feeling may be the cause of her way-ward actions.

From your perspective, you cannot continue down the path of verify, verify, verify. t's not fair to either of you and I can't imagine the "pins and needles" you must both be living with in your marriage from 3 years of holding her feet to the fire of accountability. At some point you will have to learn to trust. If that can't be done, then you need to end the marriage.

That's JMHO (for whatever it's worth).


----------



## Decorum

She has navigated SF's boundaries like she knows him, dipping over and back, yet he is still trying to prove something. She probably knows if he gets a smoking gun she is done, that is her boundary. Single dad over, something was done, but no smoking gun. It's probably only a matter of time, but there may be many border crossing into Cheatland before then, she is playing the odds and counting on his need for "clear proof".

Her lack of true remorse and openness is troubling, she lives in the shadows just outside the truth. There can be no real intimacy with a person like this.

That thing sucking out your emotional energy is not a part of you body its like a lamprey eel, you will be healthier when it disconnects.





















I really feel for Sf, no one wants to give up on their wife and see her end up with another man. Maybe, just maybe, if she knows she is caught dead to rights she will wake up and change.

Who knows that may work one more time even with a smoking gun, its worth a try (she may be thinking), but Sf says no, it one more and out the door.

So that is what they have come to, catch me if you can.

Chances are after she is detached she will just swim around and find another fish to latch onto.

So sorry.


----------



## G.J.

Sports Fan said:


> Hi Guys
> 1) I caught wife out once physical. Var confirmed that. On a first date. *Something happened i dont know what*


Ouch 
Do you mean she told you everything (her words) But you don't believe her ?

If that's the case with the time that has elapsed, unless you can track the guy down and confront 
him then Poly is only option and hope for a car park confession because how can you carry on not knowing if 
anything happened...That's my mind set yous may be different


----------



## Acoa

Sports Fan said:


> Hi everyone. Long timer reader, contributor here.
> 
> Lately a few things have caught my suspicion red flags to speak.
> 
> No sex in 6 weeks. Wife changed her Apple ID password. She is taking care of her appearance, however no strange phone calls, excessive going out etc. She goes straight to work and comes home. She does have a meet up to a local bar with a female friend once a fortnight which i have confirmed. What goes on there i dont know.
> 
> I will make it clear that if i catch my wife out on something then i will end the marriage.



Jail breaking can be tricky and sometimes is noticeable. You may want to spend some time thinking of alternative ways. A GPS in her car will reveal if she is everywhere you think she is. Even if she is its possible that the affair is at work, or just when you are out of town. 

Search for a burner phone too. She has been caught before and is going to be better at hiding it now.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Sports Fan said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I just want to clarify as there are so many wrong versions swinging around here.
> 
> 1)* I caught wife out once physical. Var confirmed that. On a first date. Something happened i dont know what. Doesn't matter whether it was kissing, oral, sex whatever, cheating is cheating in my book.*
> 2) I have not rugswept anything. Problems were confronted and consequences imposed.
> 3) She did not drop the kids to my parents then have sex with the single dad. I play date was arranged for which i was aware would happen. She chose to disreguard the bit that he is not to come over when im not around. Yes clear boundary crossing and again something was done.
> 4) i am very sure if i confirm anything EA or Physical i am done. I am not naive and have more respect for myself.
> 
> Please read carefully before posting things that aren't true. I am a big supporter of this group and feel it gives real value to people in our situations howver it has highlighted that some posters do not read the story or comments accurately



So if I understand this correct, you never actually found out exactly what happened that first time. She never told the whole truth and in return got given another chance ? I think therein starts your problem - at the very least you should know what happened then to know what you were forgiving etc. Even if it takes a poly this late in the day - thats where you start. Did it not eat you alive not knowing ?


----------



## OldWolf57

do you dude, but I don't let a rattler bite me to know if it will.


----------



## eastsouth2000

@sportsfan

may be its time to prepare your heart for the inevitable.

the door is slowly closing on this chapter of your life and as this one slowly shuts another door slowly opening up.

i believe its time to prepare for that new journey.

steady your heart knowing that the woman you used love is no longer there and has died.

life is short! And its time to Meet that new life


----------



## Hardtohandle

I'm interested in the phone progress.

It seems you have all your ducks in a row as far as everything else..

Everyone needs to remember that not every moment in time can be expressed on these forums.. 

SF seems to be on point ATM.. 

I am sure if it goes sideways he will tell us..


----------



## italianjob

Sports Fan said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> I just want to clarify as there are so many wrong versions swinging around here.
> 
> 1) I caught wife out once physical. Var confirmed that. On a first date. *Something happened i dont know what.* Doesn't matter whether it was kissing, oral, sex whatever, cheating is cheating in my book.
> 2) I have not rugswept anything. Problems were confronted and consequences imposed.
> 3) She did not drop the kids to my parents then have sex with the single dad. I play date was arranged for which i was aware would happen. She chose to disreguard the bit that he is not to come over when im not around. Yes clear boundary crossing *and again something was done.*
> 4) i am very sure if i confirm anything EA or Physical i am done. I am not naive and have more respect for myself.
> 
> Please read carefully before posting things that aren't true. I am a big supporter of this group and feel it gives real value to people in our situations howver it has highlighted that some posters do not read the story or comments accurately


So, it was physical both times, but you never got a confession? Or you got one but don't believe it?

SF, If you started R without even knowing the full facts an letting her off just like that, you DID rugsweep a big portion of it.

Consequences and boundaries might have been imposed but here too, something is not working, she crossed boundaries just like nothing last time and she's not even giving you transparency on her devices (I'll repeat my question, how come a multiple offender in R can change password and you can't demand to see her phone?).

Again, she seems to go searching for flings every time you look the other way, is that a way to live?


----------



## weightlifter

Sending PM. Read it and implement. Some things I dont publish here. Half a year ago, someone told me a smaller cheater site copied my evidence post.


----------



## the guy

schradeline said:


> I have jailbroken my own phone before.


Did you catch your self cheating?:grin2:


----------



## GusPolinski

the guy said:


> Did you catch your self cheating?:grin2:


FYI you just quoted a spambot.


----------



## Sports Fan

Hi all. Thanks for your support. There have been some developments this morning.

Over the past weekend it was wifes birthday. Altough i bought her a present i did not plan anything special. 

Anyhow she had a huge blow up over it and this morning she wanted to know in a sit down why after 12 years of planning stuff and nice gifts i did not plan this birthday.

I told her the truth, that i feel unappreciated, work pay all the bills, but all i recieve in return is sarcasm, negativity, and refusal of affection.

Anyhow she didn't take it too well. Wanted Divorce, said i was being vindictive and deliberately planned to ruin her birthday.

I told her i was more than happy to accomodate Divorce and it is about time she was held accountable for her actions.

She took of her wedding rings. I inturn informed her she needed to cover half the bills from this day forward.

Wife followed up with the below message.

Wife - I'm not even upset, angry or hurt anymore. I'm just tired of putting more effort than i recieve. Im tired of holding on for nothing. Im tired of you proving me wrong every time. Im tired of getting my hopes up and being disappointed again and again.

I responded with the following 

Me - I can do nothing but be honest with you about my feelings. You can either handle that as the truth and realise that there are two people that contribute to relationship and work with me or you can keep telling me its my fault. Either way I'm not putting my feelings on the back burner anymore. It takes two to resolve issues and i feel its easier to message you how i feel rather than speak to you in person as you cant seem to handle my honest feelings.

I have been nothing but truthful regarding the way i feel. You can either accept and respect my honest feelings and respect that i have been honest with you like an adult or you can continue to keep blaming me for everything.

I feel unappreicated. I work pay all the bills and provide a comfortable lifestyle for the family. You have not contributed financially in months. You are constantly negative, sarcastic towards me, and undermine me to the kids. I am refused affection both basic and in the bedroom and that is a huge deal for me. I try really hard to please you but you cant seem to make up your mind on issues and stick to them.

Anyway that my honest feelings and the answers you seek. I'm not trying to be hurtful but you need to understand you cant act all surprised and paint me as the bad guy.

I have feelings too and for far too long ive sat back and let you tell me how horrible i make you feel. Not anymore.

Anyway im implementing the 180 after this message. I'm done and im done monitoring. If she wants divorce i am happy to accomodate her. AT the very least i will hold her accountable for her actions something no one has ever done before.

Thanks for all your support. It is really appreciated in this most trying time.


----------



## bandit.45

See a lawyer quick...before she does.


----------



## eric1

I would also consider a PI. Abrupt change of behavior is a pretty glaring red flag


----------



## Sports Fan

bandit.45 said:


> See a lawyer quick...before she does.


Saw a lawyer months ago. I know the deal


----------



## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> See a lawyer quick...before she does.


*And after you leave the lawyer's office, do get yourself checked out by an MD for the presence of STD's!

In this day and age, you might well be surprised at what could turn up!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

She may be jumping ship to save her reputation because she knows its only a matter of time. SF I went through something similar in my marriage, but my wife was not cheating. I walked on eggshells for years then one day found my voice, it destabilized out relationship for some time, she was not use to me saying no.

As I said there was no hidden sex/attention addiction so it took some time but she made the adjustments, and now I am kind but firm wherever I need to be, no longer afraid to disagree, and ready to move on if my partner does not want to be with me (though I don't wear that on my sleeve). Good things have come as a result.

I am sorry it has come to this, note that she is the one who "went there" and all for a birthday celebration.

I will say there is a (perhaps small) possibility that this is a grand manipulation to get you to back of a bit and she will try to readdress it hereafter "with a clearer head". Maybe not but just be prepared!


----------



## Sports Fan

Decorum said:


> She may be jumping ship to save her reputation because she knows its only a matter of time. SF I went through something similar in my marriage, but my wife was not cheating. I walked on eggshells for years then one day found my voice, it destabilized out relationship for some time, she was not use to me saying no.
> 
> As I said there was no hidden sex/attention addiction so it took some time but she made the adjustments, and now I am kind but firm wherever I need to be, no longer afraid to disagree, and ready to move on if my partner does not want to be with me (though I don't wear that on my sleeve). Good things have come as a result.
> 
> I am sorry it has come to this, note that she is the one who "went there" and all for a birthday celebration.
> 
> I will say there is a (perhaps small) possibility that this is a grand manipulation to get you to back of a bit and she will try to readdress it hereafter "with a clearer head". Maybe not but just be prepared!


Thank you for your kind words and sensible support. It is greatly appreciated.


----------



## carmen ohio

Sports Fan said:


> Hi all. Thanks for your support. There have been some developments this morning.
> 
> Over the past weekend it was wifes birthday. Altough i bought her a present i did not plan anything special.
> 
> Anyhow she had a huge blow up over it and this morning she wanted to know in a sit down why after 12 years of planning stuff and nice gifts i did not plan this birthday.
> 
> I told her the truth, that i feel unappreciated, work pay all the bills, but all i recieve in return is sarcasm, negativity, and refusal of affection.
> 
> Anyhow she didn't take it too well. Wanted Divorce, said i was being vindictive and deliberately planned to ruin her birthday.
> 
> I told her i was more than happy to accomodate Divorce and it is about time she was held accountable for her actions.
> 
> She took of her wedding rings. I inturn informed her she needed to cover half the bills from this day forward.
> 
> Wife followed up with the below message.
> 
> Wife - I'm not even upset, angry or hurt anymore. I'm just tired of putting more effort than i recieve. Im tired of holding on for nothing. Im tired of you proving me wrong every time. Im tired of getting my hopes up and being disappointed again and again.
> 
> I responded with the following
> 
> Me - I can do nothing but be honest with you about my feelings. You can either handle that as the truth and realise that there are two people that contribute to relationship and work with me or you can keep telling me its my fault. Either way I'm not putting my feelings on the back burner anymore. It takes two to resolve issues and i feel its easier to message you how i feel rather than speak to you in person as you cant seem to handle my honest feelings.
> 
> I have been nothing but truthful regarding the way i feel. You can either accept and respect my honest feelings and respect that i have been honest with you like an adult or you can continue to keep blaming me for everything.
> 
> I feel unappreicated. I work pay all the bills and provide a comfortable lifestyle for the family. You have not contributed financially in months. You are constantly negative, sarcastic towards me, and undermine me to the kids. I am refused affection both basic and in the bedroom and that is a huge deal for me. I try really hard to please you but you cant seem to make up your mind on issues and stick to them.
> 
> Anyway that my honest feelings and the answers you seek. I'm not trying to be hurtful but you need to understand you cant act all surprised and paint me as the bad guy.
> 
> I have feelings too and for far too long ive sat back and let you tell me how horrible i make you feel. Not anymore.
> 
> *Anyway im implementing the 180 after this message. I'm done and im done monitoring. If she wants divorce i am happy to accomodate her. AT the very least i will hold her accountable for her actions* something no one has ever done before.
> 
> Thanks for all your support. It is really appreciated in this most trying time.


Dear Sports Fan,

The *bolded text* above confuses me. If I understand you correctly, your position is that you will no longer monitor her behavior and you will withdraw your emotional support, but you will continue to provide for her financially and you will let her decide if your marriage is to continue or not.

If my understanding is correct, please explain why you believe that this is _"hold[ing] her accountable for her actions."_ From where I stand, it appears that you are simply kicking the can down the road (i.e., rugsweeping).

If I misunderstand your position, perhaps you could be so good as to explain.


----------



## autopilot

SF,

Wow. Your post about the divorce sounds so familiar to a coversation my wife and I had a number of years ago. Nothing was clicking and it was quickly headed for divorce. Your communication to each other resonate to nearly exactly what we told each other.

The problem was that we were not meeting each other's needs. Things that made her happy and things that made me happy were completely different. I thought I was doing things to make her happy and meet her needs, but I didn't realize that those things didn't mean anything to her. The things that did have meaning, however, I was completely oblivious to and she became resentful as a result. Same for her with me. She was doing things that she thought would make me happy and not doing the things that I considered important.

We ultimately read the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "The 5 Love Languages" and attended an intensive marriage seminar. From that, we learned what each of us needed to feel love and appreciated. It made all the difference in the world. We now understand what matters to each other and are attentive to those needs that matter to the other.

The secondary result was vastly improved communication skills. We are now able to communicate openly and lovingly with each other and respect the other's opinion without it becoming a devisive issue...both verbally and non-verbally.

This may not help you in your marriage, but it certainly could help you down the road in a future relationship.

Good luck to you and I'm sorry that you're going through this.


----------



## Be smart

Please serve her with D papers as soon as possible.
I told you she is a cheating b. and she has no respect for you but you decided to be her puppy.

Finnaly she made decision for you,she wants divorce (divorce you should ask and file). 
Please my friend stay strong and continue with D,your life will be much richer with the right woman/wife,one who will respect you,talk to you,share her fears and happines with you.

Grettings drom EU my friend and stay strong PLEASE


----------



## manfromlamancha

So after all this stuff about cheating serially etc you end up splitting up because "she is not supporting you" ?!?!? and "you ruined her birthday"?!?!?!

What about a discussion about her cheating since you were supposed to be telling her the truth - and ask her to take a poly.


----------



## Hardtohandle

Yea, SF I sort of feel the same way as some others here..

You felt and suspected she was cheating and now you tell her okay to divorce but failed to express some parts of your real feelings and issues.. 

So you were and still are holding back feelings and truth from her..

I wouldn't stop or at least check your cell phone bill and find out who those numbers are on the bill.. ETC.. 

I mean something..


----------



## ConanHub

She is obviously invested in her AP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happy as a clam

manfromlamancha said:


> So after all this stuff about cheating serially etc you end up splitting up because "she is not supporting you" ?!?!? and "you ruined her birthday"?!?!?!
> 
> What about a discussion about her cheating since you were supposed to be telling her the truth - and ask her to take a poly.


:iagree:

Why did you leave out the most important and salient facts in your email to her? The fact that you can't trust her as far as you can throw her? The fact that her BETRAYALS have destroyed your marriage?

Instead, you seemingly cow-towed to her birthday temper tantrum and gave her doormattish reasons why the relationship isn't "working" (btw, it's not working because she's not IN it!) It's not clear from your email what your intentions even are at this point.


----------



## ConanHub

Spamburger?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

autopilot said:


> SF,
> 
> Wow. Your post about the divorce sounds so familiar to a coversation my wife and I had a number of years ago. Nothing was clicking and it was quickly headed for divorce. Your communication to each other resonate to nearly exactly what we told each other.
> 
> The problem was that we were not meeting each other's needs. Things that made her happy and things that made me happy were completely different. I thought I was doing things to make her happy and meet her needs, but I didn't realize that those things didn't mean anything to her. The things that did have meaning, however, I was completely oblivious to and she became resentful as a result. Same for her with me. She was doing things that she thought would make me happy and not doing the things that I considered important.
> 
> We ultimately read the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "The 5 Love Languages" and attended an intensive marriage seminar. From that, we learned what each of us needed to feel love and appreciated. It made all the difference in the world. We now understand what matters to each other and are attentive to those needs that matter to the other.
> 
> The secondary result was vastly improved communication skills. We are now able to communicate openly and lovingly with each other and respect the other's opinion without it becoming a devisive issue...both verbally and non-verbally.
> 
> This may not help you in your marriage, but it certainly could help you down the road in a future relationship.
> 
> Good luck to you and I'm sorry that you're going through this.


Was your wife a serial cheater?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## autopilot

ConanHub said:


> Was your wife a serial cheater?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, she wasn't. But their conversation about why each is unhappy with the marriage was the same one that we had.

Theirs led to an A by his wife. Ours did not...but, I'd venture to say that it could have had we not addressed and fixed the problems in the marriage to meet each other's needs.


----------



## ConanHub

autopilot said:


> No, she wasn't. But their conversation about why each is unhappy with the marriage was the same one that we had.
> 
> Theirs led to an A by his wife. Ours did not...but, I'd venture to say that it could have had we not addressed and fixed the problems in the marriage to meet each other's needs.


Their conversation was lopsided because she is a serial cheater and is probably still cheating.

There cannot be a rational conversation when someone is cheating. In other circumstances, your example and advice is spot on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Welsh15

Given what she has said, I think she has someone else on the burner. The birthday tirade was just one of the many nit pick excuses cheaters come up with to justify their actions. She disconnected months ago. There is another man in the picture...AGAIN


----------



## jsmart

That birthday blow up was a rouse. She's showing signs of being involved with someone and wants to go for an unhindered extended test drive. 

You rightly know that the 180 is the best course of action. I hear a lot of hurt in your words. It's going to take some time to detache but things will improve in time. True 180. You stay in marital bed. Tell her to sleep on couch. File D, Separate the finances, 
and focus on you.


----------



## just got it 55

Be smart said:


> My friend I feel sorry for you but please think about this : your wife cheated on yo,she talks about you with her lover/s and she talks bad things about you.
> 
> You caught her once,you caught her twice but what other times.
> She knows you are checking up on her and belive me she is going to "hide" from you.
> 
> Do you want to waste your life with THAT wife and always check on her.
> Please life is to short to be vasted on people like your wife.
> 
> File for D and be happy ma friend


SF please for the love of God

Stand up for yourself

55


----------



## Sports Fan

manfromlamancha said:


> So after all this stuff about cheating serially etc you end up splitting up because "she is not supporting you" ?!?!? and "you ruined her birthday"?!?!?!
> 
> What about a discussion about her cheating since you were supposed to be telling her the truth - and ask her to take a poly.


Had an open and honest confrontation with her last night. I gave her all the home truths and how she was never really held to account for her affair, and her boundary crossing.

Told her that since we are now separated there are no free rides in this house and she is to contribute to half the mortgage and half the bills until the mess is sorted legally.

Naturally she did not like that responded with I was hoping we could separate in a cival manner.

I responded that if she thought that I was just going sit back and hand her 70% access to my kids and sign over the house she had another thing coming.

She knows I am going to fight tooth and nail for the kids. She has a history of depression for which she has been extensively treated for and I have copies of all the doctors letters stashed at my parents. I plan to use every advantage I can to gain custody of my children.

This is now trench warfare and I have realised I must now protect myself and my kids and above all secure their future and not let them be burdened with living with this unstable woman.


----------



## Sports Fan

jsmart said:


> That birthday blow up was a rouse. She's showing signs of being involved with someone and wants to go for an unhindered extended test drive.
> 
> You rightly know that the 180 is the best course of action. I hear a lot of hurt in your words. It's going to take some time to detache but things will improve in time. True 180. You stay in marital bed. Tell her to sleep on couch. File D, Separate the finances,
> and focus on you.


Thank you for your kind words. I have done most of what you have said last night.

The only thing left is to throw her out of the bed. I will be doing that today. I am at home from work today and will be moving all her stuff to the spare room.


----------



## just got it 55

Sports Fan said:


> Had an open and honest confrontation with her last night. I gave her all the home truths and how she was never really held to account for her affair, and her boundary crossing.
> 
> Told her that since we are now separated there are no free rides in this house and she is to contribute to half the mortgage and half the bills until the mess is sorted legally.
> 
> Naturally she did not like that responded with I was hoping we could separate in a cival manner.
> 
> I responded that if she thought that I was just going sit back and hand her 70% access to my kids and sign over the house she had another thing coming.
> 
> She knows I am going to fight tooth and nail for the kids. She has a history of depression for which she has been extensively treated for and I have copies of all the doctors letters stashed at my parents. I plan to use every advantage I can to gain custody of my children.
> 
> This is now trench warfare and I have realised I must now protect myself and my kids and above all secure their future and not let them be burdened with living with this unstable woman.



SF that's a God Damned good start

Keep that mind set protect your children and yourself

55


----------



## G.J.

Sports Fan said:


> Thank you for your kind words. I have done most of what you have said last night.
> 
> The only thing left is to throw her out of the bed. I will be doing that today. I am at home from work today and will be moving all her stuff to the spare room.


Exactley what i would have done


----------



## Welsh15

Sports Fan said:


> Thank you for your kind words. I have done most of what you have said last night.
> 
> The only thing left is to throw her out of the bed. I will be doing that today. I am at home from work today and will be moving all her stuff to the spare room.


SF, you are on the right track and the actions you are taking now say more than words can ever accomplish. She is now feeling the consequences of her actions. She shows no remorse either. She stands to lose much now. Should be interesting watching her reactions to your strong decisions. Do not waver. Sorry it has come to this. Stay strong. You know what to do given that you are a long time member here


----------



## tom67

Sports Fan said:


> Thank you for your kind words. I have done most of what you have said last night.
> 
> The only thing left is to throw her out of the bed. I will be doing that today. I am at home from work today and will be moving all her stuff to the spare room.


PROTECT YOURSELF!

Multiple voice activated recorders and heck cameras.


----------



## aine

SF, sounds like you are really taking control of the situation, your WW will have no choice but to respect you now.
However, what are your plans, are you going ahead with divorce?


----------



## Sports Fan

After Moving wifes stuff to the spare room and informing her she now needs to pay half of everything guess who now wants to reconicile?

I informed her she made her bed now she can sleep in it. And that bed is the coldness of the spare room.


----------



## where_are_we

Stay strong. Don't cave. Liars never change. They just become better liars.


----------



## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> After Moving wifes stuff to the spare room and informing her she now needs to pay half of everything guess who now wants to reconicile?
> 
> I informed her she made her bed now she can sleep in it. And that bed is the coldness of the spare room.


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


>


Awe poor frosty lol.
If she begs and is TOTALLY transparent you have a shot.
"cough"
That's even if you want to take her back.

YOU are now in control.


----------



## Dyokemm

tom67 is 100% right....you are driving the bus now.

A full accounting of her past cheating and boundary crossing, transparency in communications, and IC to figure out why she has such problems with basic loyalty are a MINIMUM in order to get you to reconsider.

She either wants to fix this M once and for all or its not even worth your time.


----------



## Decorum

Dyokemm said:


> A full accounting of her past cheating and boundary crossing, transparency in communications, and IC to figure out why she has such problems with basic loyalty are a MINIMUM in order to get you to reconsider.


BEFORE you would even RECONSIDER!

If you were selecting a partner, you would not pick a broken one.
She destroyed her own marriage, burned it down with her own hands.

She needs to present herself at least (over a significant period of time) as on the road to becoming an unbroken person and a good choice for a partner, and that is assuming you are willing to live with the inevitable consequences of her infidelity for the rest of your life.

Some people (most actually) move on, others believe, because of the fundamental character of their spouse, and her remorse and heavy lifting, that there is a high probability that that the relationship can recover and the partner would be as good or better as anyone else they could hope to find.

And I would add because the wayward spouse truly loves/is attracted to/desires the Betrayed spouse, not just for reputation sake or to preserve some nicer lifestyle.


These usually are not "serial cheaters" who fit that description.


You are doing the right things and you can see her reaction to the consequences, don't mistake this for character, but it shows what kind of actions work in these situations which allow the BS to begin searching through the ruble to see what is left.

Sf I really wish you well, stay strong!


----------



## JohnA

I noticed Acoa liked your last post. I read his posts. Impressive guy, take the time to read them.


----------



## Acoa

Sports Fan said:


> I informed her she made her bed now she can sleep in it. And that bed is the coldness of the spare room.



Stay the course on this. And don't let your guard down. She will have to go above and beyond or don't consider R. If she keeps trying to manipulate, beg, blow up or rug sweep, keep up the 180.

She is weighing her options. Her desire will be to placate you then go back to cake eating. Make it clear its a choice, she is either all in or your out. 

Good signs would be her exposing herself to friends and family. Her giving you the space you are asking for, and her initiating therapy, without you asking.

Bad signs would be her asking you what she needs to do. Or "giving up" because nothing she can do would satisfy you. Or continuing to shift blame on you and minimizing her affair.


----------



## Tobyboy

Don't forget what got you to this point!!! That "off" feeling is still there, but has been replace with new emotions from what has transpired in the last week. Be very vigilant!! Trust your gut!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Louise7

Meanwhile she is in the spare room with her phone, still with the pin code. If she wants to get back with you, ask her for the phone and the code. Give her no warning - just tell her she needs to give you the phone and the pin code right now, before she has the chance to wipe anything.


----------



## OldWolf57

Yeah, her crows coming home to roost.
She may have talked to pos, but didn't hear what she wanted from him, so best to R with you.

She thinks you will check so probably wiped the phone, if she wasn't using a cheater's app, but the account is something she can't wipe.

I repeat, she works fast. 1st guy it took a week, and she was showering when you returned.
So 6 wks out,,, she done him man.
You my never find the smoking gun, but her track record speaks for her.

Also I think you are doing the right thing going for primary custody. If you have to, to protect your kids,, blow her out the water.

Good Luck and God Bless You and the Kids.


----------



## Dycedarg

People can change. 

Most never will. I'm sorry you're in this situation. My recommendation would be to cut her out, at least for now. Maybe in a few years you will speak again, and by then perhaps enough time and experience will have both healed and given her opportunities to grow.


----------



## GusPolinski

How's it going over there, @SF?


----------



## Sports Fan

Hi Gus.

I have continued with the 180. Wife is pulling out all the stops wanting to reconcile.

I have disconnected, spend more time focusing on my kids and just trying in general to keep myself occupied.


----------



## Chaparral

How does she explain herself?


----------



## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> Hi Gus.
> 
> 
> 
> I have continued with the 180. Wife is pulling out all the stops wanting to reconcile.
> 
> 
> 
> I have disconnected, spend more time focusing on my kids and just trying in general to keep myself occupied.



Feels good to take the power back, right?


----------



## Sports Fan

GusPolinski said:


> Feels good to take the power back, right?


Feels great mate. Altough the situatioin in general is depressing it feels like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders


----------



## Dyokemm

Sports Fan,

When you say she is pulling out all the stops now....has she finally given you a full confession on her A and subsequent boundary crossing?

Or is she still trying to hide and be deceptive?

Until she owns all her sh*t completely, don't consider changing course.

She will never reach true remorse for what she has done if she is still fighting you to keep it hidden....and without true remorse, their is simply no true R possible, only rugsweeping.


----------



## Pollo

Sports Fan said:


> I will make it clear that if i catch my wife out on something then i will end the marriage.


I think you've already seen enough from your wife to do that. She invited a man to your house when you told her not to and she spent the day with a man and lied to you about it. What else do you need? You already know you can't trust her.


----------



## morituri

Want to feel better? Break up with her. Easy? No way in hell (worst experience ever) but you will once again feel your soul being returned to your body.


----------



## happyman64

Speaking from experience Mori? :wink2:


----------



## JohnA

Hi sports fan, how are you and your WS doing?


----------



## LongWalk

Without therapy she'll only get worse with age


----------



## Roselyn

OP, how old are you and your wife? You stated that you paid all the bills. Does she work?

Woman here. Your wife is a serial cheater. Six weeks without sex for a married woman, if not for medical circumstances, indicates there is someone else in the picture. You have proven that your wife is a cheater by your VAR records.

I commend you for intervening on a likelihood of another affair. I'm referring to the scenario where she befriended a single dad and found him at your home. You had a talk with him and he disappeared from the scene. You said that your wife was embarrassed. Hell, she needs to be embarrassed!

Why delay the divorce? You've already consulted legal counsel. I do agree with you that you need to fight tooth and nail, with or without children. I believe that your wife will continue to cheat. You will always be tormented. End the misery.

Sorry you are here.


----------



## sidney2718

Roselyn said:


> OP, how old are you and your wife? You stated that you paid all the bills. Does she work?
> 
> Woman here. Your wife is a serial cheater. Six weeks without sex for a married woman, if not for medical circumstances, indicates there is someone else in the picture. You have proven that your wife is a cheater by your VAR records.
> 
> I commend you for intervening on a likelihood of another affair. I'm referring to the scenario where she befriended a single dad and found him at your home. You had a talk with him and he disappeared from the scene. You said that your wife was embarrassed. Hell, she needs to be embarrassed!
> 
> Why delay the divorce? You've already consulted legal counsel. I do agree with you that you need to fight tooth and nail, with or without children. I believe that your wife will continue to cheat. You will always be tormented. End the misery.
> 
> Sorry you are here.


I think he's left the building. That is often very bad news. But we may never know.


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> I think he's left the building. That is often very bad news. But we may never know.


He's been posting a bit over the past couple of weeks, just not in his own thread.

Hopefully that will change.


----------



## turnera

sports fan, update?


----------



## Sports Fan

Still making her sleep in the spare room. She is continuing to chase me. She has been showing true remorse, and despite my 180 towards her she continues to prepare my meals and wash my clothes.

I told her to stop doing that but she does it anyway. Claims she has to make up for her bad choices and childish behavour.

I told her i'd have to see true remorse over a prolonged period of time before i would even consider taking her back. Also informed her if i did take her back its my way or the highway as i am currently happy with this arrangement as it stands.


----------



## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> Still making her sleep in the spare room. She is continuing to chase me. She has been showing true remorse, and despite my 180 towards her she continues to prepare my meals and wash my clothes.
> 
> I told her to stop doing that but she does it anyway. Claims she has to make up for her bad choices and childish behavour.
> 
> I told her i'd have to see true remorse over a prolonged period of time before i would even consider taking her back. Also informed her if i did take her back its my way or the highway as i am currently happy with this arrangement as it stands.


This is familiar territory for you, though... right? What I mean is that -- per your initial post in this thread -- you've been down this road before (i.e. catching her in inappropriate behavior, calling her out on it, putting boundaries in place, etc), only to wind up back in the same place.

Can't remember... did she ever cop to any actual PA activity w/ either OM? Seems clear that something _probably_ happened w/ the first guy and _possibly_ happened w/ the second guy.

Has she offered up full transparency?


----------



## Dyokemm

GusPolinski said:


> This is familiar territory for you, though... right? What I mean is that -- per your initial post in this thread -- you've been down this road before (i.e. catching her in inappropriate behavior, calling her out on it, putting boundaries in place, etc), only to wind up back in the same place.
> 
> Can't remember... did she ever cop to any actual PA activity w/ either OM? Seems clear that something _probably_ happened w/ the first guy and _possibly_ happened w/ the second guy.
> 
> Has she offered up full transparency?


I agree with this.

All the seeming remorse in the world is only a mask IMO if she is continuing to be dishonest and deceptive.

Trying to repair a M with a WS still committed to hiding the extent of their betrayal is a situation too fraught with danger.

Don't change course SportsFan until you feel assured that she has confessed all and truly owned what she did.


----------



## G.J.

I would always struggle not knowing how far she went with that guy from a few years ago


----------



## ReidWright

G.J. said:


> I would always struggle not knowing how far she went with that guy from a few years ago


Yeah, she seems to be a fast mover….meets a guy out somewhere, goes on a date, has all the excuses for being out of the house planned, laughs at the spouses for not knowing anything, etc

Doesn’t sound like her first rodeo, sounds like a seasoned pro


----------



## bandit.45

I don't know SF... I wouldn't want to be my wife's consistent second choice. 

You are living with a scorpion. I think cheating is in her nature. She MUST do it to survive.


----------



## LongWalk

Sports Fan said:


> Still making her sleep in the spare room. She is continuing to chase me. She has been showing true remorse, and despite my 180 towards her she continues to prepare my meals and wash my clothes.
> 
> I told her to stop doing that but she does it anyway. Claims she has to make up for her bad choices and childish behavour.
> 
> I told her i'd have to see true remorse over a prolonged period of time before i would even consider taking her back. Also informed her if i did take her back its my way or the highway as i am currently happy with this arrangement as it stands.


Your wife might be most attracted to you if you are a bit of hard azz. But do you want to constantly be trying to managing her? You may become an expert but it will be way of living.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Sportsfan, did you ever get the truth about exactly what happened on her date with FWIT she met at the racing track or whatever it was ? Remember you caught them making fun of you on the VAR. You were pretty sure something physical happened (kissing is also physical), but you were not sure what. Did she ever come clean ? Do you believe her and why ? Did you ever ask her for a poly regarding that instance ? And if you found that she had sex with him, would you still stand by your offer to reconcile at the time ?

I really believe this is a turning point for you. If she comes clean, tells the whole truth and it turns out that she had sex, but is now jumping through hoops to make it up to you, and is showing a real understanding of the pain she put you through, there jut might be a chance. If you don't know the truth then this whole thing would be based on a lie.


----------



## Be smart

She said " she has to make up for her bad choices and childish behavour."

She needs to tell you the truth. You are wasting your time not knowing the truth.

If I am in your position I would really like to know everything,but people are different.


----------



## Sports Fan

Thanks all for your responses. I will clarify i have not reconciled with my wife and i am happy with the status quo at present. 

Wife has been showing remorse and bending over backwards, whether or not this is true remorse or self preservation kicking in time will tell.

I plan to test her this weekend an ask for details what happened on the date with Race Car Guy a few years back.

As for the single dad visiting that day with his kids i know for a fact nothing happened as my parents were there all day before he got there and did not leave until after i arrived home.

However that was a clear boundary violation of rules set when exposed. I am fully aware that this kind of behavour wont be tolerated hence why i havent given in to her pleas of reconciliation.


----------



## G.J.

Sports Fan said:


> Thanks all for your responses. I will clarify i have not reconciled with my wife and i am happy with the status quo at present.
> 
> Wife has been showing remorse and bending over backwards, whether or not this is true remorse or self preservation kicking in time will tell.
> 
> *I plan to test her this weekend an ask for details what happened on the date with Race Car Guy a few years back*.
> 
> As for the single dad visiting that day with his kids i know for a fact nothing happened as my parents were there all day before he got there and did not leave until after i arrived home.


If she's after R she will lie if anything happened...so you need to go the hard talk way :-
"any chance of you even considering R will mean no lying about anything...... I'm going to ask you some thing and I want you to go away for 10 minutes and think about it and come back and tell me true fully.....if I doubt in any way you may be lying I will request a full polygraph test and if anything comes out you weren't fully honest its over
*Tell her its the lying that is the deal breaker*....its been so long if doesn't mater if you fvvvked him..just don't lie"

Its been so long any other trail would be cold I would imagine...simply asking her will be a waste of time

Just ask the one question first
Did you kiss him

then after add another

then after another

repeat and wash

give her a few minutes to think about giving the full truth each time and don't look too upset


----------



## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> Thanks all for your responses. I will clarify i have not reconciled with my wife and i am happy with the status quo at present.
> 
> Wife has been showing remorse and bending over backwards, whether or not this is true remorse or self preservation kicking in time will tell.
> 
> I plan to test her this weekend an ask for details what happened on the date with Race Car Guy a few years back.
> 
> *As for the single dad visiting that day with his kids i know for a fact nothing happened as my parents were there all day before he got there and did not leave until after i arrived home.*
> 
> However that was a clear boundary violation of rules set when exposed. I am fully aware that this kind of behavour wont be tolerated hence why i havent given in to her pleas of reconciliation.


Ehhh... maybe not on THAT day...


----------



## Sports Fan

GusPolinski said:


> Ehhh... maybe not on THAT day...


Gus i know for a fact regarding this as our kids were in the same sporting group. 

I was present when they were discussing kids play dates and her only handed over his number that day.

I made it clear to wife that he is not to come over for play date when im not home especially when im travelling for work.

Unfortunately wife chose to ignore that fact and she allowed him over the day he came.

Thankfully for me my parents were in the area and popped in unannounced before he got there.

I confronted him the next week in no uncertain terms and he left our kids club and has never been heard of again.

Not making excuses for her mate but this im sure of.


----------



## ConanHub

Sports Fan said:


> Gus i know for a fact regarding this as our kids were in the same sporting group.
> 
> I was present when they were discussing kids play dates and her only handed over his number that day.
> 
> I made it clear to wife that he is not to come over for play date when im not home especially when im travelling for work.
> 
> Unfortunately wife chose to ignore that fact and she allowed him over the day he came.
> 
> Thankfully for me my parents were in the area and popped in unannounced before he got there.
> 
> I confronted him the next week in no uncertain terms and he left our kids club and has never been heard of again.
> 
> Not making excuses for her mate but this im sure of.


You might be sure nothing happened the day your parents caught her but his reaction to your confrontation confirms that there was definitely some level of cheating going on between him and your WW.:frown2:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> Gus i know for a fact regarding this as our kids were in the same sporting group.
> 
> 
> 
> I was present when they were discussing kids play dates and her only handed over his number that day.
> 
> 
> 
> I made it clear to wife that he is not to come over for play date when im not home especially when im travelling for work.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately wife chose to ignore that fact and she allowed him over the day he came.
> 
> 
> 
> Thankfully for me my parents were in the area and popped in unannounced before he got there.
> 
> 
> 
> I confronted him the next week in no uncertain terms and he left our kids club and has never been heard of again.
> 
> 
> 
> Not making excuses for her mate but this im sure of.




Gotcha. It seems like you have a handle on things.



Either way, I wouldn't stay in limbo for too much longer. Desperate people (and it sounds like your wife is at least heading toward desperation) have a tendency to do some pretty stupid things.


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## Be smart

Hmm I am not sure about this. You confronted him and he left. After that you never heard of him. This smells fishy to me. You are sure she never cheated with him on THAT DAY,but what about days before that or after that ?

What bout other guys and her "talks" with them ?

I would never be able to put this behind me.


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## G.J.

How are things these days ....with the wife?

Did she ever tell you about race guy?


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## GusPolinski

How is the new year treating you, @Sports Fan?


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## Sports Fan

New Year is treating me very well so far Gus. How are you doing?


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## GusPolinski

Sports Fan said:


> New Year is treating me very well so far Gus. How are you doing?


Sometimes chicken, sometimes feathers.

Still, it's usually chicken. So I guess I can't complain.

_Much._

:wink2:


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## thummper

Say, Sports Fan,
Did you ever have that talk with her about what actually happened with the race car thing.


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## Sports Fan

thummper said:


> Say, Sports Fan,
> Did you ever have that talk with her about what actually happened with the race car thing.


Yes she came clean. She said he approached her with his group of friends asked who she was there with and then asked her to join them on the lunch break since she was alone.

Promised her race tickets and they exchanged numbers. He rang her a couple of days later and the VAR confirmed the rest.


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## happy as a clam

Is she still sleeping in the spare bedroom?

Or did you cave and let her back in your bed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CHGUY

Hi,

I'm sorting the same out as we speak so cannot give you advice on the "end" result.
My wife put a pin on her phone after I caught her and I recorded the messages beforehand- She said the pin is there cause she cannot trust me for prying (Deal-breaker and BS and will be sorted out soon) At this stage I have enough evidence and the pin is evidence as well that she is not faithful still, neither cares for the marriage. I made it clear that we are to have counseling and soon we will be having a session to address
the issue as my wife is either delusional (or playing a sick game) and we need a mediator to move forward. Get a counselor or couples therapy asap and make a decision where your line is on divorce. Just a question, does her parents respects marriage? Mine does not and causes a lot of narcissistic attacks on ours - and their other child's marriage as well. BTW if my wife's pin stays, myself and kids do not, and my counselor have been briefed prior to the start of our therapy. I'm not there yet, but my line/boundary is set for divorce even how horrible it feels right now. Good luck


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## farsidejunky

CHGUY said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorting the same out as we speak so cannot give you advice on the "end" result.
> My wife put a pin on her phone after I caught her and I recorded the messages beforehand- She said the pin is there cause she cannot trust me for prying (Deal-breaker and BS and will be sorted out soon) At this stage I have enough evidence and the pin is evidence as well that she is not faithful still, neither cares for the marriage. I made it clear that we are to have counseling and soon we will be having a session to address
> the issue as my wife is either delusional (or playing a sick game) and we need a mediator to move forward. Get a counselor or couples therapy asap and make a decision where your line is on divorce. Just a question, does her parents respects marriage? Mine does not and causes a lot of narcissistic attacks on ours - and their other child's marriage as well. BTW if my wife's pin stays, myself and kids do not, and my counselor have been briefed prior to the start of our therapy. I'm not there yet, but my line/boundary is set for divorce even how horrible it feels right now. Good luck


Why are you giving her a choice? She has consistently chosen poorly. You make the choice.

/TJ

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

CHGUY said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorting the same out as we speak so cannot give you advice on the "end" result.
> My wife put a pin on her phone after I caught her and I recorded the messages beforehand- She said the pin is there cause she cannot trust me for prying (Deal-breaker and BS and will be sorted out soon) At this stage I have enough evidence and the pin is evidence as well that she is not faithful still, neither cares for the marriage. I made it clear that we are to have counseling and soon we will be having a session to address
> the issue as my wife is either delusional (or playing a sick game) and we need a mediator to move forward. Get a counselor or couples therapy asap and make a decision where your line is on divorce. Just a question, does her parents respects marriage? Mine does not and causes a lot of narcissistic attacks on ours - and their other child's marriage as well. BTW if my wife's pin stays, myself and kids do not, and my counselor have been briefed prior to the start of our therapy. I'm not there yet, but my line/boundary is set for divorce even how horrible it feels right now. Good luck


Counseling is a waste of money if your WW is still in her affair. Waste of money. She will get you in that room with the counselor and lie and gaslight and sandbag you. Don't even go there. 

Spend that cash on a good lawyer and hit her hard with D papers. That is the only thing that even stands a chance of knocking her off her fairy carriage.


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## G.J.

bandit.45 said:


> Counseling is a waste of money if your WW is still in her affair. Waste of money. She will get you in that room with the counselor and lie and gaslight and sandbag you. Don't even go there.
> 
> Spend that cash on a good lawyer and hit her hard with D papers. That is the only thing that even stands a chance of knocking her off her fairy carriage.


:iagree:

Very sound adive


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## Sports Fan

CHGUY said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm sorting the same out as we speak so cannot give you advice on the "end" result.
> My wife put a pin on her phone after I caught her and I recorded the messages beforehand- She said the pin is there cause she cannot trust me for prying (Deal-breaker and BS and will be sorted out soon) At this stage I have enough evidence and the pin is evidence as well that she is not faithful still, neither cares for the marriage. I made it clear that we are to have counseling and soon we will be having a session to address
> the issue as my wife is either delusional (or playing a sick game) and we need a mediator to move forward. Get a counselor or couples therapy asap and make a decision where your line is on divorce. Just a question, does her parents respects marriage? Mine does not and causes a lot of narcissistic attacks on ours - and their other child's marriage as well. BTW if my wife's pin stays, myself and kids do not, and my counselor have been briefed prior to the start of our therapy. I'm not there yet, but my line/boundary is set for divorce even how horrible it feels right now. Good luck


Sorry you are going through this. The fact that there is a pin on the phone indicates that your wife is still up to no good.

In my experience and from what i have read only by you taking a very tough stand on this matter do you have any chance to fix your marriage.

Basically you have to be ready to end the marriage in order for you to have any chance to fix it. 

More importantly so your wife has to believe it. Only your actions and you offering up consequences for her terrible behavour can prove to her that you are deadly serious about not tolerating her cr...ap.

As for me yes my wife is back in the bedroom. However i have taken real measures to address the issues.

To date she is doing well with them.

My wife now provides me with access to electronic devices at random when asked, answers her phone and is transparent regarding her whereabouts. Understands fully that friends of the opposite sex are a complete no go.

Im not claiming the marriage is now perfect but boundaries have been set and i genuinely believe she is full aware that breaking any of these will result in Divorce.

You need to do the same. I truly hope it all works out for you. Keep reading here and posting. The advice is good and you will continue to learn on how a cheater thinks.

Wishing you all the best as i know the shi...ty feeling you are experiencing.


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