# What To Do How Can One Change or be Complacement is it Too Late? or go with the Flow?



## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

Created a New Thread continuing from thread: 'Husband does everything behind my back'


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi Turnera, understand.. sort of that I have a problem, just cant see it at this time, and yes i need to stop blaming her, as i choose to act and say, as in the end it is and i am accountable. But i am trying to get a handle on why i have become like this with me as the problem, as it is all my fault in the end, i could hold my feelings or needs back anymore over the several years...
and i havent looked up the books yet.


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

I have had enough, I planning on leaving tonight, cant put up with this anymore... even though it is christmas, and i will cause some anxt, as I will not be going to any of my families christmas lunch or dinner, where everyone will start asking why and what has been going on. Accept has a point, it cant get any worse.... i am building my inner strength and ensuring i have thought through the emotional ramifications too my kids, and my family, and the consequences which may arise from my wife...


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## RunningOnEmpty (Aug 29, 2010)

I think your situation is unacceptable. And you need to set clear boundaries. And most likely divorce. But don't rush out the door because your wife wants you to. Did you gain control of your finances? Credit cards? Are you giving up on your kids?


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

i have no choice but to leave, and i would never give up on the kids, I love them so much, but i can take the hate, and anger anymore, as i cant enjoy the company of the kids, its just the current circumstance, not there fault.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

River, I agree with Turnera and the other respondants that you should divorce this vindictive woman. Ideally, you should remain in your own home and let her be the one to leave. Yet, because your two kids are nearly adults, child custody will not be an issue and there therefore is far less advantage in remaining in your home. Hence, if there is danger of her pushing you over the edge -- as happened in the past when you were suicidal -- you may be far safer getting away from this mean woman by moving out.

The behaviors you describe -- temper tantrums, vindictiveness, lack of impulse control, extremely controlling behavior, inability to trust, and black-white thinking -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) or, to a lesser extent, NPD (Narcissistic PD). I mention this because, if your W has strong traits of NPD or BPD, there is little chance of her changing even if she were agreeable to see a psychiatrist (which she refuses to do). I spent a small fortune taking my BPD exW to six differerent psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years -- all to no avail. It is rare for a BPDer to have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to take advantage of the excellent treatment programs that are available. 

If she has strong BPD traits, that would explain why she is unable to trust you around your office colleagues. BPDers have such a strong fear of abandonment that they become extremely jealous over nothing and they are very controlling of every aspect of their spouse's life -- as your W is. Moreover, BPDers do black-white thinking, wherein they classify everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other in just ten seconds based on a minor comment or innocent action. When a BPDer perceives of you as being "all bad," she will consider you to be Hitler incarnate and will treat you accordingly. This is why extreme meanness and vindictiveness are hallmarks of having strong BPD traits.

River, you apparently have very low personal boundaries, making it difficult for you to see what part of the marital fighting is caused by you and what part is caused by your dysfunctional W. I therefore suggest you read about NPD and BPD traits to see if they are a close fit to your W's behavior. If so, it will help you realize that you are not responsible for her malevolent behavior, you cannot fix it, and there is little chance she will ever improve. As you get a clearer picture of the toxicity she has brought to the marriage, you will -- by subtraction -- get a clearer picture of your role in the marriage.

An easy place to start reading about BPD traits is my discussion of them in Maybe's thread. Like you, Maybe is married to a very abusive and controlling woman. My post there starts at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, River.


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi Uptown, thank you for your perspective, as it has made me look at things from any angle. the environment at home with my W, is to volatile, and there is a high risk of her pushing me over the edge and me getting out of control...
some of the behaiviuor you mentioned are spot on, as i had (omg moments) I have left my home yesterday taking minimal clothes, her reactiopn was absolute outrage, swearing, abuse, personal attacks, threats of telling the kids that I Fxxx in the head, I am violent mental ill non man, piece of crxxx, and a cuxx.. she just went off vebaklising, text messages, voice mails on my cell phone...

so I have left, and still at work, and sleeping in car until i find somewhere or until i am ready to tell my family... she doesnt get it, that dispite her saying No to buying stuff i need, and buying them anyway.. i am a theif, liar and a pathitc father, is gutless to face the kids, as i am ashamed....? that is what she said she told the kids...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nriver13

Be sure to tell you children why you left. Do it in an email or text so that they can read it. If you try to tell them, it could fall apart into them just arguing with you and repeating what their mother says.


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

that is a good point about email or text, as it would of turned into an argument..

i slept in the car last night, i didnt go to me sisters yet, but i will call her later today, and tell her. I am very nervous and anxious still, awaiting for the next barrage of verbalising abuse, as I opened my own bank account this morning...


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

nriver13 said:


> Her reaction was absolute outrage, swearing, abuse, personal attacks....


This caustic behavior is to be expected if your W has strong BPD or NPD traits. The only way to avoid such temper tantrums is to spend the rest of your life always walking on eggshells around her. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the nonBPD spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._


> She believes I am a thief, liar and a pathetic father.


Likewise, my BPDer exW firmly believes that I am very violent and a frequent liar. Even so, she has repeatedly tried to reestablish a friendship with me -- both during and after the divorce. Because BPDers flip back and forth between splitting you white (adoring you) and splitting you black (hating you), it is common for them to alternate between pushing you away and trying to sweet talk you back into the toxic relationship. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me._


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

Uptown said:


> This caustic behavior is to be expected if your W has strong BPD or NPD traits. The only way to avoid such temper tantrums is to spend the rest of your life always walking on eggshells around her. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the nonBPD spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._Likewise, my BPDer exW firmly believes that I am very violent and a frequent liar. Even so, she has repeatedly tried to reestablish a friendship with me -- both during and after the divorce. Because BPDers flip back and forth between splitting you white (adoring you) and splitting you black (hating you), it is common for them to alternate between pushing you away and trying to sweet talk you back into the toxic relationship. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me._


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

Now she is blaming me, as i left.... Now she is playing all innocent and in control, and she tells me that i am abusing het because i raised my voice over the phone over demands i cannot access funds until we are divorced, i had to have a screaming match to get half my pay....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

nriver13 said:


> Now she is blaming me, as i left.... Now she is playing all innocent and in control, and she tells me that i am abusing het because i raised my voice over the phone over demands i cannot access funds until we are divorced, i had to have a screaming match to get half my pay....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And she offered for to stay at the house sleep on the couch, and she said she stay out of way, no quesyioning no abuse, and she can go in and out as she pleases. There is no way i would be under the same roof until we are divorced, what and risk arguments, and the vibes of hatred.... No way.... I am so angry....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

She keeps ringing me but i am angry so i dont want to talk
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

nriver13 said:


> No way.... I am so angry.


River, if you are an excessive caregiver like me, anger is your friend at this time. It likely is the only thing making it possible for you to walk away from this toxic relationship. I therefore suggest you use the anger like a crutch to help you walk away to safety. Later -- after the divorce -- you can kick that crutch aside and get rid of the anger so that it does not eat away inside you. Right now, however, your righteous anger is protecting you.


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## nriver13 (Dec 15, 2011)

Merry Christmas to you and your family, and again thank you for your suppot.
I am very down though, i feel guilty, sad as its the first time apart from the kids christmas morning, she said if i want to see the kids, i have to admit that i stole money from them.... I said no way.. I did not... Cant beleive it....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

River, I'm so sorry to hear that, on top of all the pain you are going through, you also have to spend Christmas day without your kids. That is very cruel and vindictive of her -- not that I am surprised. As soon as you can, you should speak with an attorney who can get a judge to intervene, specifying child support and visiting arrangements during the separations process -- until their is time to finalize the divorce. 

Here in my State, the divorce took 18 months (we are not even allowed to file until we've been separated 12 months). Of course, for couples like you with kids, there is a legal process for quickly seeing a judge who will impose a structure during this interim period so that both parents can see the kids and both have an income.

Like you, I will be spending Christmas day by myself. I lost my five step children when I divorced their mother (all of them had been 16 or older when I started living with her). I had purchased a ticket for my foster son to fly here for a week and he was supposed to arrive today. He lives about 1,000 miles away. But he got sick and had to cancel the trip. 

So, like you, I will just have to tough it out tomorrow. That means, of course, that I will be here at the computer for most of the day tomorrow if you need to vent your feelings or just reach out to someone. Meanwhile, River, please start taking better care of yourself. It is hard for us caregivers to focus on meeting our own needs -- but that is exactly what we must do in order to remain healthy. You won't be any good at all to your kids -- or anyone else -- if you don't keep yourself in good emotional and physical health.


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