# really confused - help !



## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

Is it possible to be loved too much?

Summary - my 2nd marriage, she fell for me in about 30 seconds, together over 20 years, no kids, w 58, I'm 61. Very happy until past two or three years when menopause, depression, anti-depressants caused w's libido to go to 0, and vaginal tissues very tender, UTIs if irritated. W becomes very distant emotionally, works late, works 6 days a week.

I'm retired, money is fortunately not a big issue, I made some good decisions but basically got lucky.

About 2 to 3 times a month w will give me an excellent BJ preceded by a very enjoyable warm up.

Problems - frequency: way too low, lack of vaginal intercourse, her dislike of my giving her oral, emotional distance. I want to be touched, held, passionately kissed, live in a city where the cultural life is intense. She wants to sleep very late when not working, falls asleep at movies, concerts, plays. 

W wants to continue living in CT near her aging parents, who might live another 20 years. I've never been fond of winter or summer's hot humid days and I'm getting bored by this town, the things I most want to do would require 4 to 5 hours of round trip travel during the week, way beyond my endurance.

I've been in counseling for months, thinking about our problems for quite a while, missing some of the key parts of what I believe marriage to be.

W is aware, we've had a couple of good discussions these last months. She has changed meds and is getting back to being the woman she was before depression struck.

The lack of adequate sex, lack of consummation is driving me up the wall, I don't want to live through another bone chilling winter.

Friday night I tell W I want a divorce. She says yes, we will see a mediator. Tension levels go down, friendly kisses. W will stay in house, we will work out details. I will move to San Francisco

Saturday afternoon W says, (approximately) "You need to know how much I love you, how much I want you to be happy, let me once again tell you to find women (note "e"), make love to them - please change the sheets before I get home, spend time with them, spend time on the west coast, spring and early fall in CT with me, find a good escort service, find women who want to play" We then went into our bed room for about two very enjoyable hours.

I've said on TAM that I'm an innocent in many respects, really wonder how having this kind of freedom will work.

Ladies - can this work? I think W can deal with it, I'm wondering more if I can. I've been a one woman for decades guy, associate sex with love, turned down one night stands.

Mark


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

Your initial question is whether it's possible to be loved too much. Are you thinking she loves you too much, or vice versa? Because I'm going to be really honest here. 

To me, the mere thought of my boyfriend with another woman is enough to make me feel like I'm dying. I cannot stand the thought, much less could I stand the reality of it. I would never, ever tell him to be with someone else, with or without my presence. I know there are couples who do it, and it works for them, and that's great...for them. 

I have to think, especially at your ages (not trying to be mean, but you are not a young couple that could still be experimenting), that if she's telling you to find other women, she's really probably not all that emotionally invested in you and your relationship any longer. Unless this is something you two have done in the past (and I don't recall seeing you saying that anywhere), this is something new, and after 20-something years of being faithful to each other, and never bringing other people into things, it's hard to believe she would suddenly be ok with changing that dynamic if she were still in love with you. 

That's not to say she doesn't love you. She probably does, in that "I spent years with you, and I don't hate you" kind of way. But her ability to be willing to share you with other women, asking only that you be discreet and change the sheets before she gets there doesn't sound like "I'm madly in love with you and want to keep you in my life." I could be wrong though. 

I think your best bet is to simply follow through on your plan to divorce and stop trying to figure out her moods, feelings, and thoughts. Remain friends after the divorce, if you're able to, and move on to find some real happiness in a relationship that truly fulfills you. 

Good luck, Mark!


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## Idontknownow (Sep 30, 2010)

I could not possibly imagine seeing my husband or knowing my husband was with another woman and stay calm. I would loose it. I just can't share that part of him with anyone else. That special singular act with him sets him apart from anyone else to me. My feelings for him are special only to him and that makes it more special to me. He's MY lover and I am HIS. I need that.

I think moving forward with the divorce sounds like a good idea. You can still be loving friends, you don't have to lose each other all together.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi ATG,

I was hoping you'd be online this morning - you are not being mean when you talk about our ages, I used to think 40 year olds were ancient ;-) . Turns out that 80+ yo get together in at least one nursing home I'm aware of, I've been told there is a room with a queen size bed and a lock, many of the nurses and CNAs are shocked.

I was wondering if W can possibly love me ( though need me might be more accurate) so much she wants me to meet my needs with other women even if she can't/won't meet these needs. All of "this" would be so much easier if I didn't care for her. She keeps telling me how much she wants me to be happy, wants me to spend part of each year in CT with her, will visit SF as often as she can. 

I think this is asking a great deal of me.

I have been faithful, though I notice and flirt easily with women. W will point out attractive women to me in just about any locations - beaches, restaurants, libraries, walking down a city street.

W was very cute in '84, 5' tall, 95 pound former modern dancer with long, dark hair, she had a very active life in HS and college, a couple of multi year relationships, never married, no kids. She was 32 when I met her, she had a dry run with guys of perhaps 5 years, unemployed for the last year, and looking for her white knight. When I showed up she decided I was the knight. I never wanted the title.

I can't make her understand that carving notches on the bed frame is not my goal, any more than sex with 2, 5, 10, 20 or more different women is, I want love & companionship, one woman at a time, I don't want to be #5 or #6 on a lover's lists of interest. If all I wanted was sex (certainly very high on my list), searching craigslist or googling CT escort provides more young, beautiful, available women for less than the cost of two good dinners with wine and without the risk of rejection.

In her job as a community social worker W is heavily involved with volunteers and local community organizations, she loves the adulation she gets when speaking publicly (she is a good speaker).

Late Saturday evening she looked at help wanted advts for a SF organization she admires and started telling me about a perfect slot. Then she says in essence "my parents won't last all that long, I love you, I really like SF, after they no longer need me I want to live in SF with you".

For some reason this makes me feel like a bit of a vulture.

I think you are right about divorce, though after yesterday when W asked me to table D until I get back from SF, I will. My last 3 weeks in SF will be single, plentyoffish will see a lot of me, I've already impressed with its M/F matching skills, see a lot of women I'd like to meet.

A big aside - I picked up a copy of "The Male Brain" by Louann Brizendine, MD. I think more than one reader will want to read it, especially if condensed. Interesting and accurate in some ways, but a bit too simplistic, stereotyping, focusing on guys who definitely aren't me. I remember being on the playground in 2nd grade, wondering why every other boy was running around, shouting, rough housing, concluding they are a different species than me. I think it might have something to do with having been the brightest kid in class, the shortest male, and the youngest by far. A pity my athletic skills never matched my ability to do math, science and history.

I sometimes think that W was exposed to a bit of testosterone in the womb, her period was never regular, she still has a modern dancer's breasts - at 58 doesn't need a bra, until menopause, still had a dancer's hips and belly, now she is rounding more in her belly than hips.



atruckersgirl said:


> Your initial question is whether it's possible to be loved too much. Are you thinking she loves you too much, or vice versa? Because I'm going to be really honest here.
> 
> To me, the mere thought of my boyfriend with another woman is enough to make me feel like I'm dying. I cannot stand the thought, much less could I stand the reality of it. I would never, ever tell him to be with someone else, with or without my presence. I know there are couples who do it, and it works for them, and that's great...for them.
> 
> ...


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I can kind of see your point in her loving you so much that she wants your happiness at all costs. And perhaps it's just the kind of woman I am. 

My first husband was an absolute ass. He cheated on me with a stripper while I was 5 months pregnant with our oldest son. That shows how much of an ass he was. That was not his first, nor his last, affair. Other men before him also cheated on me. 

So, I have some self-esteem issues, to be sure. And maybe that's why I look at it the way I do. 

I know my boyfriend looks at other attractive women, as I do men. Considering that neither of us is dead nor devoid of a sex drive, it's perfectly normal. I'm ok with the knowledge that he looks. As I believe he's ok with the knowledge that I look. It's when it goes beyond looking that it becomes an issue for me. 

I love him to death. I would do anything to make him happy...but allow him to sleep with other women, whether I'm there or not. To think of him touching another woman the way he touches me, putting his hands or mouth on her the way he does me is not something I could handle. To know that he was giving another woman the same pleasure he gives to me, and that she could give him the same pleasure I give to him would just kill me. That is something that is just between the two of us, that we share with no one else. If I was not enough for him, I love him enough to set him free if that were really what he wanted, but I could not share him with someone else. 

The only aspect to this that I can say would indicate her love for you is allowing you to go to SF but not wanting a divorce. As I've mentioned before, my boyfriend (who is sitting right next to me...leaving tomorrow. Today is bittersweet. ) is an over the road truck driver. As a general rule, he's gone 3-4 weeks, home 3-4 days. I hate that he is gone so much. I miss him like crazy while he is gone, and I feel like he misses so much of our kids (they're actually mine from my first marriage, but we've really meshed well as a family, and we all refer to them as "our" kids and him as their "dad") lives and school stuff. But, I love him enough to know that driving like this is what really makes him happy. So, I deal. Plus, I'm selfish enough that I don't want to give him up, so I take what I can get.  Luckily, he loves me as much as I love him, so it all works out in the end. 

But, even with that, I think that the...almost eagerness with which she is willing to turn you over to other women sexually indicates that she isn't all that invested any longer. 

I think perhaps her references to wanting to keep you are not so much out of love but out of comfort and familiarity. After twenty odd years together you two have a relationship, dysfunctional as it may be, that is very comfortable to you both. You both know each other intimately, every detail of each other's lives. You can be yourselves and relax around each other. She may be wanting to keep that, and in order to keep that, she must keep you. Even though things would be different with you two living on separate sides of the country, the knowledge that she'll have you, and that dynamic, back someday would act as a comfort to her.


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