# Husband says he loves and respects me, but . . .



## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

He doesn't feel for me what he should. He says we have the same conversation every few months and things don't get better. He says we don't have anything in common anymore and we don't do things together so what's the point? I say the point is we love each other and we've been busy but can get things back. He contends that I don't even like him, which is not true. We have been in a rut and haven't done a whole lot together lately, but I didn't think we were here. He had an affair several years ago. We went to counseling and our marriage was better than ever. It hasn't been super exciting lately, but we get along really well, rarely fight, and have fun together for the most part. We haven't communicated a lot lately, but, again, I was happy (obviously he isn't) and didn't know he was this unhappy. I told him I love him and our marriage is worth saving and suggested counseling again - said I was willing to do anything. His answer was that the counselor can't make his feelings for me come back. Is there hope?


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

What is he so unhappy about? 
How is sex? 
How come you don't spent time together?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm a bit cynical, but I'd be worried if he were having another affair if I were you.


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## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

He cheated on you and yet you're the one trying to convince him to stay in the relationship.

There's a balance of power in every relationship. In best cases it's close to 50/50 but usually there's one partner pushing a bit and the other pulling back.. sometimes it gets extreme. 

In your case you're doing all the pushing, and he's pulling away. Because you forgave his affair so easily, he's lost respect for you, he devalues you and has lost attraction as a result. We want what we cannot have, and you have become way too attainable. 

Stop pushing. Start valuing yourself and devaluating him, a cheater who has no respect for you and only thinks for himself.

You have only one post to date with limited information but I bet you caught him cheating, he didn't confess, and you went to pieces and forgave him almost immediately without him suffering any real repurcussions. He probably didn't even give you the whole story and you didn't push for it. There's probably lots you don't know that you want to know but he refuses to tell you, is that right? He keeps his phone, and email and other online accounts locked away from your access, isn't that true as well?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

My bet is he is cheating again, sorry.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

Thank you for the responses. To address some of the posts above: He admitted everything and we went through a lot of counseling and work to get better. I have access to anything I want (phone, email, whatever). Of course there could be accounts I don't know anything about - very easy to do. Both of our jobs have been more demanding of our time lately and sex has been lackluster and not as often but the desire is still there. I have gained weight and don't feel as sexy or confident as I used to. All of these things are tough on a marriage. I just don't believe any are worth giving it up.


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## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> I have gained weight and don't feel as sexy or confident as I used to.


How much weight have you gained since you first met him?

This can be it right here.

Guys can be all about looks. If you're packing on the pounds to the point that you can be defined as overweight or even obese, then he's going to have trouble warming up to you. I know I would, and I know it's "shallow" but that's how lots of guys are. Even if we're fat ourselves.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> He says we don't have anything in common anymore and we don't do things together so what's the point? I say the point is we love each other and we've been busy but can get things back.


I suggest you get un-busy, like right now. And if you can't, then you're really not serious about working on it.



> sex has been lackluster and not as often


How did I know that?



> but the desire is still there. I have gained weight and don't feel as sexy or confident as I used to.


It's not enough to "say" the desire's still there. You're either doing it or you're not. The reason's are just excuses. Or at least that's how he's going to see it. 

In my mind I figure you can either try to get the connection back (i.e. doing things together and good enthusiastic sex on most days) or you can continue to do what you're doing and experience him warning you as he has been until he stops. I'm also thinking that him continuing to talk the way he is is a sign that he still cares. Eventually he'll stop having these talks and then you'll claim you were blindsided when he walks.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

40 pounds over 15 years. I totally get that, but I also know that a man will have an affair with a troll, so it's not all about looks. He's gained weight too and has more hair on his back than a gorilla, but I guess a woman can overlook these things.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

I also have suggested things for us to do together, showed him much more affection because he expressed he wanted/needed it. He said he noticed that I did it, but he can't help how he feels.


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## Coachme (Sep 9, 2015)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> He doesn't feel for me what he should. He says we have the same conversation every few months and things don't get better. He says we don't have anything in common anymore and we don't do things together so what's the point? I say the point is we love each other and we've been busy but can get things back. He contends that I don't even like him, which is not true. We have been in a rut and haven't done a whole lot together lately, but I didn't think we were here. He had an affair several years ago. We went to counseling and our marriage was better than ever. It hasn't been super exciting lately, but we get along really well, rarely fight, and have fun together for the most part. We haven't communicated a lot lately, but, again, I was happy (obviously he isn't) and didn't know he was this unhappy. I told him I love him and our marriage is worth saving and suggested counseling again - said I was willing to do anything. His answer was that the counselor can't make his feelings for me come back. Is there hope?


I think that there is always hope. It only takes one small change to change everything. Think about the beginning of the relationship, what did you do together, what did you feel, what did you see, what made you both excited? What can you do now to surprise him? How does he like to receive information, auditory, visual, kinesthetic? It would be great if you could make a list of something playful, funny or sexy you could do each day for two weeks, such as you could put a love note or appreciation in his bag/wallet/lunchbox, you could buy a ridiculous costume and serve dinner in it without saying a word about it, you could flash him at dinner, you could try a new sport together, you could look at a photo album together etc. It sounds like this is important to you, so it might be worth the effort of being creative and unexpected.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, did he say he still loves you but isn't _in_ love with you?

Just wondering if he's reading directly from the active cheater's handbook. 

Have the two of you read the books _His Needs, Her Needs _and _Lovebusters_, both by Willard Harley? If not, I highly recommend them both. But first, confirm he's not cheating again. Do that by quietly snooping, not by asking/confronting him about it.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

If you're going to read a book, my suggestion is Mating In Captivity by Esther Pearl. There's a lot in there about marital boredom and stagnation and also a lot about the difference in intimacy and eroticism, which may not always go hand in hand even though most think they should.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

Rowan, too late, I already asked. He said no (while rolling his eyes). We have not read those books. I don't know if I can get him to do anything at this point. He never said that exactly. He said he loves me but just doesn't feel the same as he used to (same thing, IMO).


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Maybe he needs some tough love, pandering to him will not make him suddenly fall in love with you. If he has a problem, he was the one who cheated before then he should be made to feel thankful he still has you around. 
You need to go 180 on his ass, switch off, go to the gym, get involved with outside activities. Act as if you are very happy with your life, become strong and confident, dress up more, wear makeup, go running, be fun to be around. Tell him you love him but you are not going to decide to wait on him to be engaged in the marriage, that is his call.
People want what they cannot have, so show him that maybe someone else will want you. Men are creatures who enjoy the chase, there is no chase if you are constantly pandering to him. Further I don't see why you have to put things back together, he has to be responsible for his own happiness, why should you do all the lifting? Unfortunately, we women do this all the time, husband not happy and then it is suddenly our responsibility to sort it out, well there are two in the marriage, both equally responsible.

On another note, considering he has a history of cheating as this sounds like the ILUBNILWY mantra. I would start looking a little more closely at his activities, what he says and does, keep a record. Do not let him know you are doing this. In the meantime live your life to the fullest, without him, do activities without him, plan events without him.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

aine, I thought about the 180 and I know that it can work; I just hate that it seems like we are playing games. We committed ourselves to one another - I know that doesn't mean that all effort ends. I do put in effort, but I want to be able to depend on him to be there for me in good times and bad til death us do part, not until I'm tired of you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> aine, I thought about the 180 and I know that it can work; I just hate that it seems like we are playing games. We committed ourselves to one another - I know that doesn't mean that all effort ends. I do put in effort, but I want to be able to depend on him to be there for me in good times and bad til death us do part, not until I'm tired of you.



Wait, so you're neglecting him sexually, not doing things with him, and put on 40 lbs as some kind of test of his loyalty? Ok you got me there. That takes real confidence I guess.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

Workingonme - neglecting him sexually is not accurate at all. After 15 years of marriage, many people don't have sex as often as they used to, so I don't believe that's fair. He is also not doing things with me - I have suggested things to do together; he suggests nothing. As for the weight gain, I got nothing; I should've stayed skinny - I don't deserve love.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> Workingonme - neglecting him sexually is not accurate at all. After 15 years of marriage, many people don't have sex as often as they used to, so I don't believe that's fair. He is also not doing things with me - I have suggested things to do together; he suggests nothing. As for the weight gain, I got nothing; *I should've stayed skinny - I don't deserve love.*


Oh how I get how you feel. Your head knows this isn't true, but your heart believes it anyway. (In my case, my ex pretty much vocalized as much and still does). 

When I was still trying to make it work in counseling with my ex, I sat there BEGGING him to do something with me the upcoming Saturday when he insisted we have "nothing in common." He flat out refused. 

There was someone else.

I suggest implementing the 180 for YOU. Start working on improving your body - mind and physical body. 

Yesterday was my first day participating in a 6 week Bible Study at my church about insecurity, using a Beth Moore book. It sounds like it would be very good for you to read. It totally applies to me so far.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

You can't force him to work on the marriage. The only person you have any control over is you. You have every right to expect more from him, but he's obviously living in fairy land if he thinks the spark stays alive without any effort on his part. I agree with Second, you should look into the 180. It's time to face facts, you married a cheater and a quitter.


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

I was in this exact boat a year ago. I used to be quite controlling and my husband was a pleaser from the start of our relationship, doing what I wanted to keep me happy (finances, living, weekend stuff). It got so bad he couldn't pick a parking spot if he wasn't sure I approved.

Over the years I utilized a lot of relationship books to help our relationship - which was mostly me letting go of trying to control everything and learning to be more feminine, respectful and kind instead of bossy, critical and disrespectful. Every now and then I'd slip into my old ways and we were both unhappy. A combination of things last year put me in a bad place and I neglected our relationship for months. I thought I was just going through things, I knew he was unhappy but I didn't care as much as I should have and just thought he should change. 

He almost left me, 'I love you but don't have romantic feelings for you, like I should have for a wife'. I didn't realise he was that unhappy, and how much the things I controlled affected him. Like he really hated the house we lived in but I insisted we stay there. He wanted me to go back to work as he could do the kids stuff as he was working from home now. The way our relationship was, made him feel rejected and unhappy every day. He believed he didn't "_love_-love" me anymore and didn't see how the feelings could come back - didn't believe it was possible. I tried convincing him in so many ways that we could work it out, but the thing that hit the nail on the head was telling him I was sorry about trying to control everything in our life. I pledged to let go of controlling things I didn't need to control and handed him the reins in full trust (they weren't things I really cared about, I was just too afraid not to be in control and thought I knew best with everything).

He gave me another chance, and since letting him choose these things in his life that are important to him - our life is 200% better! My wish is his command, he says. He does things to make me happy because it makes HIM happy, not because I'd tried to force an outcome like I used to. I got a job which I loved (very bad hours though), but then the family business grew so much he needed me to work for him (there was a time he used to say he could NEVER work with me). We live in an amazing house (my dream home, he let me pick and made it happen against great odds) on a huge block of land, he is absolutely back 'in love' with me in a way even I didn't think was possible. I've discovered just how amazing he is when he has the freedom to get things done his own way.

Anyhow, I don't know if this is at all, similar to your situation. The only thing I can recommend is to tell him asap that (if applicable) you'll change, you just need a chance to show him you can make him happy again. Emotions are SO _fluid_, they're not at all set in concrete - as you know from your previous recovery after counselling. 

There was a time he loved you intensely - he believed AT THE TIME those feelings would NEVER go away and he'd NEVER leave you. What we believe about our feelings is rarely accurate, so there is hope if he is willing to give you a chance. 

Check out some of these books on amazon.com - read the reviews they can reveal a lot. If you think they might help - buy them cheap on kindle so you can read them right away (you can put kindle on your computer for free).

How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It: Patricia Love, Steven Stosny: 9780767923187: Amazon.com: Books

The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands - Kindle edition by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. Health, Fitness & Dieting Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love that Lasts: Gary D Chapman: 9780802412706: Amazon.com: Books

http://www.amazon.com/Surrendered-W...d=1442228779&sr=8-1&keywords=surrendered+wife

Sex is extremely important too, but it means nothing if he doesn't feel admired, respected and appreciated by you.

Good luck!


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## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

If lack of sex has been a ongoing issue in your marriage then he may have lost his love for you. If your husband connects emotionaly through sex than being constantly frustrated can greatly decrease his feelings for you. I don't know if this is the case or not but I suspect so. Love is a choice but it may be to late for him to even want to love you anymore.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, how old are you and your husband? Do you have any children?

As he had an affair before, as other posters have pointed, the possibility of him having another one is very likely. How did you find out about his affair and who was his affair partner. Was she an acquaintance, a co-worker, or a friend? How long was this affair?


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

He is 45 and I am 44. We have no children together. He has 2 from his first marriage. The OW from before was someone he met in Vegas and continued a relationship with, flying to see each other (we live across the country). Since my last post, I have bought books and read them, encouraged him to read them and discuss with me, I have been affectionate, very loving, suggested things to do together, lost 10 pounds so far, had lots of sex - all to no avail. He shows me nothing - the only time he touches me is for sex. He avoids me. I have snooped a lot and can't find a thing.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

Also, in response to Roselyn, he told me about her, wanted to leave me for her. It was on and off (multiple D days) for 8 months.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OP, at this point you are way too much of a doormat so your hb doesn't see you as something to be valued. You're chasing him and he knows that you're waiting on him and in the mean time you're easy sex while he considers his options. 

You might consider just cutting him off and showing him the door. Let ow have him. .... tell him that since he doesn't value you he can gtfo and you'll find someone who does. 

I know it seems counterintuitive but it might be your best chance of saving things. Offering yourself in return for nothing and begging for scraps isn't getting you anything besides devalued.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> Since my last post, I have bought books and read them, encouraged him to read them and discuss with me, I have been affectionate, very loving, suggested things to do together, lost 10 pounds so far, had lots of sex - all to no avail. He shows me nothing - the only time he touches me is for sex. He avoids me. I have snooped a lot and can't find a thing.


He's not interested in someone who is bending over backwards to do all the heavy lifting in the relationship. He may never be interested again.

But you come across as needy and desperate. Nobody finds that appealing. Again YOU NEED TO DO THE 180. Not for him; for YOU. 

Let him go. Realize that you are worth working on for yourself. He may come back to the marriage, he may not. Regardless of how many passwords you can access, if he's cheating, he's gone underground with it.

Frankly, it sounds like he's cheating. But whether he is or not, you owe it to yourself to work on you. I'm sure this is painful for you, but you cannot be the sole glue that holds a marriage together.

Right now, he's checked out. If I were you, I'd treat it as if he's checked out for good. Get out there and work on yourself. Like it or not, you may be alone, but it is in your best interests to behave as if he's gone for good now.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think he's cheating. If he is, though, that would just be the final nail in the coffin for me. I wouldn't keep fighting. You can't make someone love you. You can only take care of yourself.

Do the 180 and do it for you. Stop trying so hard to save a marriage that only one of you wants. Detach and go find your own bliss.

(And I'm not cavalier about this at all. I know how heartbroken you must be, but you can't hold up a marriage all on your own. You need to live your life for yourself, not solely for him.)


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

I agree that all of his behaviors suggest cheating. I can find not one tiny piece of evidence. You would think there would be something. I am getting weary of being the only one putting forth effort. I just feel like it's too important and I don't want to quit. He says he wants to save the marriage but his actions don't back it up.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The 180 is a great system, but it is also a blunt instrument. I think it would be a little premature to implement it at this point.

Look, what has your husband done other than tell you he is unhappy? Has he abused you, neglected you, called you names or cut you down? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like he's being honest about his feelings. He's telling you he's unhappy. What the hell is wrong with that? Would you rather he smile and lie and pretend he's hunky dory? Now, he may be projecting his unhappiness on you, but the feeling I get is that he is just unhappy with life, and you happen to be a convenient target. 

The 40s are a hard, hard time for us men. I can testify. We men watch as our bodies degrade, our joints creak and grind, we constantly ache all over, our d!cks sag, and the benefits of exercise diminish yearly. We see young men chasing tail, knowing that we no longer have the dire and stamina to keep up with the women in our lives. Add to that the stress of impending retirement....or lack thereof.... Wondering if this year is the year we have a heart attack or get diagnosed with testicular cancer...

And if he had a past affair, that may have demoralized him to a degree. Affairs do that to people. His affair probably messed his head up. If you are not having regular sex with him, who do you think is dominating his thoughts right now? He thinks fondly about the OW remembering the great sex they had and how she doted on him, but then he snaps back to reality and feels guilty for feeling that way. That just increases his depression and anxiety. 

The 180 is only implemented when you know he is cheating, or he has told you he is divorcing you and he's one foot out the door. I don't think you are there yet. Don't punish him for being honest with you. 

First, use some of the sleuthing techniques that you can find here on TAM to determine if he is cheating. 

Second, tell him to go to the doctor. Have a full blood survey done on him. Have his T levels checked. I bet they are in the basement. 

Third....start having sex with him. Initiate and jump his bones, whether you feel like doing so or not. You might be surprised at how he responds and how much fun you guys have. 

If he is not cheating, and if you think the marriage is worth saving, then you need to stand your ground and tell him he is going to marriage counseling with you. Tell him he either goes to counseling or you will indeed go see a lawyer and determine what your options are. 

Fight for your marriage. If you love him and you think he can be pulled out of this funk he is in, then do everything you can to help him. Then at the end of the day, if he still won't step up and work on himself and the marriage, then you can 180 and file for divorce if you have to. At least you can do so knowing you did all you could to save it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> I agree that all of his behaviors suggest cheating. I can find not one tiny piece of evidence. You would think there would be something. I am getting weary of being the only one putting forth effort. I just feel like it's too important and I don't want to quit. He says he wants to save the marriage but his actions don't back it up.


Unfortunately, you cannot fix the marriage all on your own. It takes two people fully committed to improve a relationship. Right now your husband is checked out and has no interest in checking back in. As others have said, the likelihood the he's having an affair is very high. Even if he hasn't acted upon it, based on everything you've written so far, he's probably got his sights on someone else. 

You've spent over 2 months trying to rekindle the romance and passion but nothing you've done has convinced him to actively work on the marriage. He's not communicating with you except to say that he's done. You are spinning your wheels and getting nowhere. 

It's the hardest thing that you will probably do, but in your case, I think you really do need to let your husband go. I hate being a negative nelly but you're out of options. Short of marriage counseling (which you say he's not interested in going to), there's not much else to do that you haven't already tried to no avail. 

Like others have advised, protect yourself by implementing the 180. Begin to prepare for a life without your husband. I would recommend you see a lawyer to discuss your rights and responsibilities in the event of a divorce. Surround yourselves with a supportive network of friends and family. Shift your focus from your unhappy marriage onto things that bring you joy. 

Maybe the 180 will make him realize what he's about to lose and maybe not, but in the end you'll be fine with or without him.


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## hurts more than i realise (Nov 20, 2015)

i have been in a similar situation with my wife for some time. We both know the problems we both openly discussed them and agreed things need to change however nothing ever does. 

That is the root of the problem. If you agree things have to change and need to change for the good of the marriage then make the changes or as you say you will keep having the same conversations and problems and then be back to square one.

Dont just talk or suggest it do it. Book something and say RIGHT WE ARE GOING OUT SUNDAY BECAUSE I LOVE YOU AND WANT TO BE WITH YOU FOREVER. you dont need to shout obviously but its to make my point. If he doesnt want to save the marriage or try then he will just make an excuse for everyhing you suggest and may also be sitting there thinking if you really wanted this to work you would have booked it. So dont give him a choice book something it doesnt have to be magical or expensive just something together. It may be something you both like something one of you likes or it may turn out neither of you liked it but at least you tried something.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lila said:


> Unfortunately, you cannot fix the marriage all on your own. It takes two people fully committed to improve a relationship. Right now your husband is checked out and has no interest in checking back in. As others have said, the likelihood the he's having an affair is very high. Even if he hasn't acted upon it, based on everything you've written so far, he's probably got his sights on someone else.
> 
> You've spent over 2 months trying to rekindle the romance and passion but nothing you've done has convinced him to actively work on the marriage. He's not communicating with you except to say that he's done. You are spinning your wheels and getting nowhere.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything in this post! Sorry but its time to save your dignity and let him go. You have already done WAY more than most of us would have with a man who cheated, and now you are starting to appear pathetic. He isn't worth your fight. It sounds like he is either cheating again or heading that way if he isn't. You deserve to be with someone who values you and this man does not. The 180 isn't just something that is done when there has been infidelity, its a process to help you focus on yourself and start to disconnect. Its time.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

Bandit, I am glad he has been honest about his feelings. I encourage it. If he had been from the get-go, maybe things wouldn't have gotten to this point. I told him I appreciated it and was more than willing to do what I need to to make our marriage great again. His reply was that his feelings would not change. He says the same thing about a counselor - a counselor would be pointless because he can't change the way I feel (or don't feel). He has spoken to his lawyer about another issue but admitted to me that he asked him about divorce while he was there. He says he didn't really want a divorce, but not for the right reasons. I asked what that meant. He said that it wasn't because of feelings for me like it should be; it was because he liked our house, our life, etc.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> Bandit, I am glad he has been honest about his feelings. I encourage it. If he had been from the get-go, maybe things wouldn't have gotten to this point. I told him I appreciated it and was more than willing to do what I need to to make our marriage great again. His reply was that his feelings would not change. He says the same thing about a counselor - a counselor would be pointless because he can't change the way I feel (or don't feel). He has spoken to his lawyer about another issue but admitted to me that he asked him about divorce while he was there. He says he didn't really want a divorce, but not for the right reasons. I asked what that meant. He said that it wasn't because of feelings for me like it should be; it was because he liked our house, our life, etc.


OP, game is over. He has told you that he doesn't love you, but staying in your marriage for the lifestyle that he is accustom to.

I have a colleague who's husband left to take a job in another state, but stayed married to her because they had a young son together and he needed her insurance coverage. This husband later returned when he was dying of cancer for the treatments. He died and made her a widow. Today, she is very bitter and just awful to be around with. She is in her late 50s and is in an administrative position. Her grown up son also took a job in another state. She is alone and bitter. If she had divorced him 25 years ago, she would have been able to have a better life and perhaps, found a husband who would value her and make her happy.

I suggest that you see a psychologist to set your mindset in the right direction. Also, see an attorney to protect your rights. Sorry that you are here.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Perhaps rather than dealing with his feelings or lack thereof, you should seriously look at why you are willing to try saving a dead marriage.

Because that is what it is. A dead marriage. Do you want to prove to yourself that you can breathe life back into this? Do you want to proclaim to yourself you went the extra mile? Or does the idea of being married trump the idea of being divorced?

After all, he said he likes the lifestyle he has. That is devoid of you being part of the equation. Sounds to me like you may be a prop that perpetuates what he wants his life to be.

Your husband neither loves or respects you. My deceased husband was declaring love for me less than a year before he died. Talk is cheap. I had watched his actions for years. What he did trumped anything he said.

And what his behaviors said was he didn't love me. I tried to save the marriage. But that ah-ha day came when I realized I was trying to save something not worth saving. What was the point of being in a marriage alone?

Sadly, from what you have posted, it sounds like you are very alone. Again, think about why you want to stay. I know, I know ... "I love him, but ..." Uh, no. This isn't love.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

I appreciate your reply. I believe the reason I want to save it so badly is that marriage is supposed to last until death do us part. After going through the affair 9 years ago and making it, it seems like such a waste to let it go now, when things aren't that bad. Back then, there was something I could identify and say this is the problem. This could be some mid-life thing that he is going through, children are grown and gone, life is happening and it's just kind of boring. It's like he's in a depressed funk. I don't want to give up if it is some phase that we could overcome. As another poster said, emotions are fluid. Very true. Feelings change. Marriage is not about what I'm feeling right now. It is about being committed to love someone through all the crap that life throws at you. Yes, I agree, it seems he is not committed and IS relying on feeling right now, but what if he snaps out of it. I just don't know how I know when enough is enough and let go.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> I believe the reason I want to save it so badly is that marriage is supposed to last until death do us part.


Yes, I see what you mean. I never divorced my late husband. I had to live separate from him for a number of years as his alcoholism progressed. 



hurtingagainin2015 said:


> Yes, I agree, it seems he is not committed and IS relying on feeling right now, but what if he snaps out of it. I just don't know how I know when enough is enough and let go.


Everyone has different tolerance levels for what they can and cannot accept. It's a personal decision you alone have to make.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> I appreciate your reply. I believe the reason I want to save it so badly is that marriage is supposed to last until death do us part. After going through the affair 9 years ago and making it, it seems like such a waste to let it go now, when things aren't that bad. Back then, there was something I could identify and say this is the problem. This could be some mid-life thing that he is going through, children are grown and gone, life is happening and it's just kind of boring. It's like he's in a depressed funk. I don't want to give up if it is some phase that we could overcome. As another poster said, emotions are fluid. Very true. Feelings change. Marriage is not about what I'm feeling right now. It is about being committed to love someone through all the crap that life throws at you. Yes, I agree, it seems he is not committed and IS relying on feeling right now, but what if he snaps out of it. I just don't know how I know when enough is enough and let go.


Okay, lets say he "snaps out of it" and things get better...HOW LONG until he is right back where he is now? He CHEATED on you in the past.. you worked through things, at least somewhat, and now you are back where you were before when he cheated. That is a pattern. Its almost like you are refusing to believe him. Stop deluding yourself and listen to what the man is telling you. He doesn't love you and stays with you only to maintain a lifestyle. Is that all you are worth?? Do you not deserve better? He is showing you who he is...BELIEVE HIM.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> I appreciate your reply. I believe the reason I want to save it so badly is that marriage is supposed to last until death do us part. After going through the affair 9 years ago and making it, it seems like such a waste to let it go now, when things aren't that bad.


Don't fall victim to the "sunk cost fallacy"....

You made a bad investment by giving him a second chance in the first place. What's done is done. However, regardless of the amount of time you have put in, sticking it out further will continue to be a losing proposition for you. Continuing to put MORE effort into single handedly propping up this relationship is just delaying the INEVITABLE.

How much longer are you going to waste you life with this guy? The sooner you dump him the sooner you can replace him with someone worthy of your love. You deserve better so stop wasting the precious years you have left that can be spent on finding a better mate. 

He's a LOSER, a USER, a LIAR and a CHEAT. He all but admits he's only using you for financial security. He has no interest in YOU, just what you can provide him and more likely than not, he's cheating on you again. Your a security blanket and plan B. This his life you want? To be used and discarded, like a tool? 

Enough is enough. Have some self respect, stop being whiny and pathetic in front of him and give him the divorce he deserves.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

hurtingagain,

It is understandable that you love him, you want your marriage to last "until death do us part" and you don't want to give up. He doesn't feel the same way, and you're going to have to accept that at some point.

Your husband is feeling stuck: to keep the lifestyle he enjoys he has to stay in a marriage he doesn't want anymore.

Help him get unstuck.

You'll get your backbone back when you speak with a lawyer and learn about *your* options and what _your_ life will look like after D. Keep losing weight, for yourself. Get involved in activities that are interesting for you. Spend time with (female) friends who lift you up. Find out who you are as an individual, again.

Do you realize the level of disrespect your husband has for you to bring up every few months that he is not happy in the marriage, while refusing to do anything with you to make it better? He actually said that he stays not for you, but for the house/lifestyle. I would call that a form of emotional abuse.

It seems that he never fully put his heart into your marriage after his affair. He doesn't even bother _trying_ to be a better man for you. That should make you *angry* at him and *at yourself* for putting up with it.

If I were in your shoes I would be insulted and would say, "Have a good life without me, because my life is going to get a lot better the moment I don't have to look at your face and be reminded how you have disrespected me day after day for the last several years!"

When he realizes that you are not going to remain in a dead marriage, and you are actively taking steps to plan a happier life without him he might wake up and start to do his part.

But don't get your hopes up.

Your starting to live a life of your own without him might flesh out where he stands if he thinks he is might lose you. He could start working on himself in an effort to not lose you.

On the other hand he might be relieved that you are finally moving on and that you are going to let him go. Could be he wants a divorce, but doesn't want to be blamed for being the bad guy again, since he already had an affair and wanted to divorce you but came back out of obligation, guilt or to keep his lifestyle.

Sorry you are in this situation. It hurts, but you will be OK if you find yourself again.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're not there yet. You'll know when you are. When the pain of staying outweighs the pain of leaving.

Personally, I'd tell him to keep his mouth shut about his feelings. You have enough to do keeping up with your own and don't need any more downers. You do know that you can't nice him back, don't you?


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

After my last attempt to talk about it and he literally just sat in silence, I decided to 180. I've been doing it for a whole day and a half and he's paid more attention to me in that day and a half than he has the past 2 weeks combined. It's like magic. Of course, I'm not reading more into than there is. It doesn't change what he said and how he's been behaving lately; however, it is good for me and I'll keep doing it for that reason. If there are positive side effects, then yippee. Thanks for the listening "ears" and for your comments. Painful, yes, but true and helpful.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> After my last attempt to talk about it and he literally just sat in silence, I decided to 180. I've been doing it for a whole day and a half and he's paid more attention to me in that day and a half than he has the past 2 weeks combined.


Go for it. And go for it LONG-TERM. You deserve to nurture your self-growth. Him? Meh. Of course he's going to react when you change the game plan.

So change YOUR game plan for good and see how he reacts. Prepare yourself for the distinct possibility that he may revert to his old ways. 

Work out. Diet. Meditate. Take up a hobby. Have a social life apart from him. And don't let him figure into the equation for now. You are worth working on you.

Sit back and observe without comment. If he sincerely wants you for more than a prop to maintain his lifestyle, you will know sooner rather than later. If he's blowing smoke, you will know soon enough.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> After my last attempt to talk about it and he literally just sat in silence, I decided to 180. I've been doing it for a whole day and a half and he's paid more attention to me in that day and a half than he has the past 2 weeks combined. It's like magic. Of course, I'm not reading more into than there is. It doesn't change what he said and how he's been behaving lately; however, it is good for me and I'll keep doing it for that reason. If there are positive side effects, then yippee. Thanks for the listening "ears" and for your comments. Painful, yes, but true and helpful.


Not trying to threadjack, but what you wrote struck a cord. Hope you get something from my experience:

My husband would sit in silence with the deer in the headlights look during our whole marriage when ever I tried to tell him how I felt. He simply could not hear my heart because of his own issues.

Only when I said (and meant it) "I am done with the marriage, and the only reason I am still sitting in our home is because we have children," did he begin to work on himself.

He realized my presence with him was no longer a guarantee, and that I was counting down the years until the day I didn't have to be married to him anymore.

It took me being fed up, and being willing to leave the marriage for my own happiness before he began to look inside of himself for some answers as to why he was not being the husband he should be.

I hope your 180 works, and he realizes what he could lose if you decide to find happiness without him.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

Well, I am back. After this amount of time of 180, he has been very affectionate and we've been having conversations that have been fun and humorous (nothing serious, just daily life), and I thought maybe things were changing for the better and he was enjoying my company again. I have been doing my own thing and he's seemed very interested in me. He had to go out of town and was gone for 5 days. He kept in touch while gone and when he got home, he was affectionate, said he missed me, and when we were talking about the Christmas shopping I had done, he asked if we were going to get each other anything. I replied that I didn't know, didn't think we were going to - why should we? He replied that if we were both here in the house on Christmas and didn't have each other a gift, it would be weird. I said that if we were not staying together, did we really need a gift as a reminder of the last Christmas together - he said OK. I asked if he still wanted a divorce. He him-hawed around a while and finally said yes. I said I thought we were doing a lot better and referenced the past few weeks. His reply was - Oh, I was just being nice. I told him that I foolishly thought his being nice meant something more. I brought up how well we had been getting along and how if he was just being nice, he should be able to see that making an effort to work on the marriage by treating each other well was obviously not that hard. He is still hanging onto how we just don't talk much if we go out together, don't have things in common, etc. 

I know that many of you must be thinking, "What do you need, a neon sign? He's done and you should be too." However, I am coming at this from the Biblical perspective of marriage lasting forever. Yes, I know that he cheated, but I forgave him back then and now the issue is not infidelity - it is his view of incompatibility (or whatever you want to call it). I have read many many articles from a Christian perspective that say, "Yes, you can save your marriage even if you are the only one who wants to." I am getting very weary and losing more and more respect for him. I still hang onto the "it ain't over til it's over" view too. I have to admit though that it is wearing me down. There is also guilt if I give up. I think it is very possible that something is wrong with him - he can be good as gold and then as cold as ice. It's like 2 different people. I know that no one can tell me what to do and how much is enough. I appreciate your counsel and honesty. I think I am going to go seek some counseling for myself to help me through this and leave it open for him to come if he wants. I am just so lost right now.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah I'm thinking D is your best option. 

You know, some people simply cannot generate the type of committed love that allows them to handle marriage. Some people are not cut out for marriage, but they want marriage, so they keep trying and failing, trying and failing....

These are the Mickey Rooney types who end up marrying six or seven times throughout their life...never able to settle down or commit long term to anyone. 

Your husband may be this type of guy.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> He doesn't feel for me what he should. He says we have the same conversation every few months and things don't get better. He says we don't have anything in common anymore and we don't do things together so what's the point? I say the point is we love each other and we've been busy but can get things back. He contends that I don't even like him, which is not true. We have been in a rut and haven't done a whole lot together lately, but I didn't think we were here. He had an affair several years ago. We went to counseling and our marriage was better than ever. It hasn't been super exciting lately, but we get along really well, rarely fight, and have fun together for the most part. We haven't communicated a lot lately, but, again, I was happy (obviously he isn't) and didn't know he was this unhappy. I told him I love him and our marriage is worth saving and suggested counseling again - said I was willing to do anything. His answer was that the counselor can't make his feelings for me come back. Is there hope?


He is looking for that spark, and possibly with his age approaching his MLC crisis hormone/income levels.

Sadly he wants to find fun, and have someone to share his interests, and someone to laugh at his dumb jokes and who hasn't heard his stories a thousand times. So while you are someone who is quality, there isn't that _fascination_ of a new person's attention stirring the blood (aka dumping a batch load of T and other hormones in his system).

Part of the problem is he will be easily distracted, which makes doing group stuff with new people a prime chance for him to become enchanted with some one else.
IF it is a nearing MLC, then taking a walk through his old dreams and places he's always wanted to see/do might help. Get a couple of cheap motorbikes, or a pen.s car and drive to those wild places.
Your advantage is that you know him, his interests, what he likes and what he grumps at.

As I said elsewhere - don't deal directly with the symptoms (the not having something in common). Look for what is driving him, is he got itchy feet, wants to have new fascination and just tired of the everyday hum-drum, wants to let loose, just be himself?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> He doesn't feel for me what he should. He says we have the same conversation every few months and things don't get better. He says we don't have anything in common anymore and we don't do things together so what's the point? His answer was that the counselor can't make his feelings for me come back. Is there hope?


There is hope if you flush him out. Call his bluff. Tell him that you don't want to be married to someone who doesn't love you the way they should, who thinks you have nothing in common together, who believes he can't get the feelings back even with counseling.

If after you begin the process of filing for a D, he suddenly realizes that he might really lose you, and that he does love you, you can change your mind and stop the D process.

If he comes back to his senses, never let him think that you are always going to be there, even if you aren't appreciated, loved, etc. He needs to know that you are not a puppy dog, but that he needs to be actively engaged in the marriage in order for you to want to stay married with him.

ETA: I just read your last post. He still isn't wanting to be M to you and wants the D. You are still trying to point out to him why you should stay married, and he is not convinced.

What is going to happen if you stay with him, is that eventually he is going to get bold enough to D YOU. He is not into the marriage anymore, and is just too lazy to do anything about it. When he gets motivated (another woman) he will suddenly "surprise" you with divorce papers.

You need to take advantage of the gift you have been given by knowing he wants to be free of you. Don't wait until you are blindsided. If you initiate an amicable D now, it will go much better for you than if you wait for him to start the D process with another woman in the wings. He will be looking out for her and get as much as he can FOR HER. Right now, he might feel a bit bad about himself, and give you more than he would if you wait until his heart is attached to another woman.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

He is sitting on the fence with all the power. It's time to knock him off and take your power back. Give him what he said he wants. Start divorce proceedings. Discuss with him how to settle your affairs. Cut him off mentally and emotionally. This will take time but don't let him see/know your struggle. Start acting like a single person. Treat him with respect but keep your distance. He really doesn't seem to be sure at all about what he wants it seems. Help him figure it out by taking yourself away as an option then let him prove to you that he knows his own mind and heart and that he is fully invested before you let him back In if he tries to come back to you. I think he will but if he doesn't it's still in your best interest. I know you are religious and you feel it's to death do you part but if your the only one with that value it will never work.


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

The thing that concerns me is this 



> I believe the reason I want to save it so badly is that marriage is supposed to last until death do us part. After going through the affair 9 years ago and making it, it seems like such a waste to let it go now, when things aren't that bad.


You want to save it because it 'should' last, and because the past efforts will be a waste otherwise? That is the wrong answer really. The right answer would be that - because you love him so much you don't want to live without him, or something to that effect. Are you sure you're trying the save the marriage for the right reasons? Is a marriage worth staying in because you made a vow X number of years ago? If you did divorce, that would NOT mean the years together were wasted - if you loved each other and enjoyed most of it. Focus on the PRESENT and on being HAPPY - not about moral obligation and keeping a vow if you don't truly want it anymore.

I am on the fence with your situation. Although many here are saying D, you don't seem ready and he's not exactly taking any action. If you're going to keep trying - I agree with spotthedeaddog in trying to bring more into his of life of what he DOES want.

What does he mean you don't have anything in common anymore?? What did you USED to have in common that you now don't? My guess is nothing has changed in that regard, but he thinks that must be it - when really you've lost your connection. When the connection is strong it's easy to talk about everything and anything and feels like you have lots in common. The book I recommenced earlier How to Improve your Marriage Without Talking About it is great for learning how to connect again, and what can rub the other sex up the wrong way (what you must avoid doing if you can) http://www.amazon.com/Improve-Marri...mprove+your+marriage+without+talking+about+it

I think men can be "big kids" more than women, try and get into his fun hobbies if you can. My H and I are opposites, you're not supposed to be the same (though some couples are actually very similar, generally opposites attract better I think). My H likes gambling on pokies but it makes me anxious, I sit with him and do it occasionally (never anywhere near outside our means) because it means a lot to him and he really appreciates it (I always get lots of "I love yous" when I'll sit with him! But I have to take turns pressing the button!). I used to be all books books, and now I will actually watch movies with him, who else is he going to watch them with? (at home). I started playing a computer game with him that he liked, he really enjoys games. He's spontaneous but I'm really not - I've learnt to occasionally do something completely spontaneously because I know it makes him feel _alive_. 

The way you describe him going from hot to ice cold suggests some kind of trigger. Maybe he has a sensitive ego and is easily emasculated - which could be heightened due the current situation which probably makes him feel more insecure than you realise (he has failed at this marriage so far, after all). In that case even slight criticism or suggestion of incompetence (i.e. trying to 'help out' with a problem or offering unsolicted advice on something he's trying to do himself) will likely offend him. Maybe he's 'lost himself' as a man. He sounds depressed about life. Has he ever wanted to travel?



> Sadly he wants to find fun, and have someone to share his interests, and someone to laugh at his dumb jokes and who hasn't heard his stories a thousand times. So while you are someone who is quality, there isn't that _fascination_ of a new person's attention stirring the blood (aka dumping a batch load of T and other hormones in his system).


You can learn to be fascinating again, that will attract him in a way even he doesn't understand. I found these two books REALLY helpful and would totally recommend them if you want to try and relight the spark (and - you CAN) The Fascinating Girl: Helen Andelin: 9781403373519: Amazon.com: Books

And then after Amazon.com: Fascinating Womanhood (9780553292206): Helen Andelin: Books


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> I know that many of you must be thinking, "What do you need, a neon sign? He's done and you should be too." However, I am coming at this from the Biblical perspective of marriage lasting forever. Yes, I know that he cheated, but I forgave him back then and now the issue is not infidelity - it is his view of incompatibility (or whatever you want to call it). I have read many many articles from a Christian perspective that say, "Yes, you can save your marriage even if you are the only one who wants to." I am getting very weary and losing more and more respect for him. I still hang onto the "it ain't over til it's over" view too. I have to admit though that it is wearing me down. There is also guilt if I give up. I think it is very possible that something is wrong with him - he can be good as gold and then as cold as ice. It's like 2 different people. I know that no one can tell me what to do and how much is enough. I appreciate your counsel and honesty. I think I am going to go seek some counseling for myself to help me through this and leave it open for him to come if he wants. I am just so lost right now.


The "biblical" perspective, sorry to say, doesnt usually translate well to real, day to day life. There is nothing Christian about a married man having sex with another woman. NOTHING. Not only has he betrayed you in the worst way possible, he DOESNT WANT TO BE WITH YOU. At this point, nothing else matters. Stop failing yourself and divorce his ass.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I am so very sorry for your hurting heart.

I just want to let you know that if you do divorce in your mid-40's, there are plenty of men looking for a loving, loyal & fun partner your age. My suggestion is to lose the extra weight, make sure your clothing is stylish along with hair & make-up. 

You may think you are doomed to be alone for the rest of your life but nothing could be further from the truth once you put yourself into the dating pool.

Waiting around for him to get the guts to file divorce papers only prolongs your agony. Doing the 180 is good also.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Emerald said:


> I am so very sorry for your hurting heart.
> 
> I just want to let you know that if you do divorce in your mid-40's, there are plenty of men looking for a loving, loyal & fun partner your age. My suggestion is to lose the extra weight, make sure your clothing is stylish along with hair & make-up.
> 
> ...


This is very true. However, having a peaceful life that you live for yourself is more important than finding another partner. Dont get me wrong, I still want a someone special in my life too, but until it happens, or even if it never does, I have a life of my own where another person is not sucking the life out me making me miserable. There is much to be said for that!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> I asked if he still wanted a divorce. He him-hawed around a while and finally said yes. I said I thought we were doing a lot better and referenced the past few weeks. His reply was - Oh, I was just being nice. I told him that I foolishly thought his being nice meant something more.


Truly cringeworthy.... You are still being whiney and pathetic. I mean REALLY reread what you wrote:

You: Do you still want a divorce?

POS: Yup.

You: But I thought we were getting along so well!

POS: Nah, I was just being nice.

This is like watching a youtube video of some dude getting kicked in the nuts over and over and over again. It's obvious you have zero self respect for yourself. Why would you think in a million years he would respect you if you can't respect yourself? 

This biblical marriage concept is your rationalization hamster HARD at work. Even the bible has exceptions (eg infidelity) for being forced to stay married to a POS. Jesus said to, "Love thyself". Clearly you don't cause no one who did would tolerate this.

You need to work on your self esteem badly. You are as broken as he is. Diet, go to the gym 3 times a week, get weekly counseling and get a life away from him. Either go to meetup.com or get involved in a hobby or charity.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

hurtingagainin2015 said:


> Well, I am back. After this amount of time of 180, he has been very affectionate and we've been having conversations that have been fun and humorous (nothing serious, just daily life), and I thought maybe things were changing for the better and he was enjoying my company again. I have been doing my own thing and he's seemed very interested in me. He had to go out of town and was gone for 5 days. He kept in touch while gone and when he got home, he was affectionate, said he missed me, and when we were talking about the Christmas shopping I had done, he asked if we were going to get each other anything. I replied that I didn't know, didn't think we were going to - why should we? He replied that if we were both here in the house on Christmas and didn't have each other a gift, it would be weird. I said that if we were not staying together, did we really need a gift as a reminder of the last Christmas together - he said OK.
> 
> *****OP, THIS right here is where you should've stopped talking. Now, im no expert on the 180 and I could be full of it, maybe someone else who knows it intricately can correct me or help. I think you sabotaged your 180 success by continuing the convo below. The tenor went from decisive and sure to clingy and needy.***
> 
> I asked if he still wanted a divorce. He him-hawed around a while and finally said yes. I said I thought we were doing a lot better and referenced the past few weeks. His reply was - Oh, I was just being nice. I told him that I foolishly thought his being nice meant something more. I brought up how well we had been getting along and how if he was just being nice, he should be able to see that making an effort to work on the marriage by treating each other well was obviously not that hard. He is still hanging onto how we just don't talk much if we go out together, don't have things in common, etc.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

That conversation sounded incredibly painful, for you. I honestly don't know how you can tolerate that sort of treatment. He has no empathy for you whatsoever. He just ripped your heart out and stepped on it, yet you actually want to stay with such an incredibly callous person. It's beyond comprehension.


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## hurtingagainin2015 (Sep 8, 2015)

I have self-respect and do love and value myself; however, neither people nor marriage is expendable, in my opinion. I do not throw either away lightly. My willingness to do whatever it takes to save my marriage doesn't make me weak; it makes me strong - anyone can give up and get a divorce; it's the easy way out. It takes courage and strength to work to save it. At this point, though, it is apparent that he is not willing to do anything and has asked for a divorce on multiple occasions. I have done all I can do with nothing from him, so divorce it is.


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