# How do i attack this



## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

i have gotten some really good advice so far from u guys. I have finally realized that my W is having a EA/PA, and has been for a while. i have just been in denial about it. everyone (friends/family) has said she wouldn't do that, until The Guy pointed it out to me.... How stupid i have been, Im a practicioner in the criminal justice field, and so i know what people are capable of and how people can do things that you would have never thought they would do.

Question: It has only been 1 1/2 weeks since this separation started, obviously, she was just waiting till she got backed in a corner, and then bailed. so how do i go about it now?

she moved out and i am moving out asap (rental). we have not yet divided stuff but she has been civil so far. my paycheck is direct deposited on friday, so i will need to get money. i have cancelled it, but it won ttake effect until next paycheck. so do i let her know that i know? she has denied it to everyone so far. i just want to tell her i know and move on. however, i was thinking i should let our friends and her family know, to flush it out and make HER deal with it. i do not have proof of a PA but just the EA. does anyone have experience in this. i know if i talk to her brother it will get back to her that i know. I know if i tell my friends it will get back to her too. She had dinner with my best friends wife the other night. She said my wife disengaged and vague and painted a rosier picture than i had. My friends, even friends wives are behind me %100. i assume that they will still probably talk to her, i dont know if they will if they know she is cheating. or should i not say anything until after we have completely separated? at this point i dont think it is going to work out, so i am going to make myself better and move on. But im not the type of person to let something like this go. I was also thinking oof calling the OM's wife and letting her know. im sure this would throw a big monkey wrench in her plans.

any thoughts on this?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

confused59 said:


> i have gotten some really good advice so far from u guys. I have finally realized that my W is having a EA/PA, and has been for a while. i have just been in denial about it. everyone (friends/family) has said she wouldn't do that, until The Guy pointed it out to me.... How stupid i have been, Im a practicioner in the criminal justice field, and so i know what people are capable of and how people can do things that you would have never thought they would do.
> 
> Question: It has only been 1 1/2 weeks since this separation started, obviously, she was just waiting till she got backed in a corner, and then bailed. so how do i go about it now?
> 
> ...


I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice, and an associate's in law degree. I currently work for a legal library at an Iowa University. I know first hand too all the ways people can do things that you never would have they would. Even with my work experinece and my education and all the evidence right in front of my face that my ex husband was cheating on me, I still did not want to believe. He cheated on me before and I gave him another chance after all his worthless promises he would never do it again. I really kicked myself pretty hard for taking him because it made me the stupid one. Anyways...yes, you need to expose her and let the OM's wife now. You need to let everyone know what she is doing and put an end to her affair. She is getting cake while you keep everything hush-hush. It does no good to keep this quite.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks, that was kind of my thoughts on it too. do you think i should wait till we have separated completely before doing this? I am having dinner with friends tonight and will definitely tell them, otherwise, i dont see how they could help or give advice if they don't know the truth.

I know if it was the other way around, i would want the OM's wife to let me know. I dont know who he is, have his cell number though. im sure through a little research i can figure out who it is.

I had just figured this out last night (well thats when my brain finally told my heart to shut the f*@k up for a minute), so i wanted to get some thoughts on how to go about it the right way, if there is one.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm in the criminal justice field myself, so not much surprises me anymore. Unfortunately, you have discovered this after she's already moved out. Have you read the 180 yet? I will PM you the elements of the 180 because I cant post it here. And you will need to expose the A to all, especially the OMs wife.

Of course, you are going to have to have proof. Enough proof that if this were a court of law, you would be able to get a conviction. That means checking the computer, phone records, everything. If she has used your computer for communicating while in the affair, you can download programs to check for it and any passwords and usernames that were used.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

confused59 said:


> Thanks, that was kind of my thoughts on it too. do you think i should wait till we have separated completely before doing this? I am having dinner with friends tonight and will definitely tell them, otherwise, i dont see how they could help or give advice if they don't know the truth.
> 
> I know if it was the other way around, i would want the OM's wife to let me know. I dont know who he is, have his cell number though. im sure through a little research i can figure out who it is.
> 
> I had just figured this out last night (well thats when my brain finally told my heart to shut the f*@k up for a minute), so i wanted to get some thoughts on how to go about it the right way, if there is one.


You said this an EA only? Do you suspect a PA at all? Are you wanting R with your WW? And yes, the OM's wife deserves the truth. She may know already or at the least be suspcious of something. I contacted the boyfriend of my ex's ow and it turned out he knew alot that I did not know about their relationship myself and I found out that the affair was much deeper than I knew. So just prepare yourself in case the OM's wife knows stuff you do not, or be prepared for her to know nothing and for her to shoot the messenger. Dont take offense if the OM's wife gets angry at you. Having to hear your spouse is cheating is pretty hard to swallow.
Yes, listen to your brain now. Our hearts want to ignore everything and for us to keep living happily in la la land but it's time to turn off the switch to your heart and turn on the switch to your brain. Your wife will get angry at you for exposing her but this needs to be done. If you do tell your friends tonight, take any advice they give you with a grain of salt because unless they've been through this before themselves, they have no idea how to properly handle the crisis. You have found a good place here to help you.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Ok thanks, i have read a lot of other posts and found good info. its amazing how people so different and far away can experience the same feelings as you.

Before i knew about the EA/PA, i was focused on myself and a lot of things i did and didn't do that contributed to this. i think that has already helped. now im just pissed...


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

As to "how" to tell OM's wife, three points I'd insert:
1) however it is delivered, yo uwant to be sure it gets to HER and not intercepted. Certified, validated, live discussion, whatever it takes - be certain it's her.
2) she MAY not want to know details, so don't force them upon her. All you need to tell her is that you are aware of her hubby and your stbx engaged in an affair. Volunteer your availability to discuss further details if she wants them.
3) Recognize that SHE may have further details that she could share with you... find a way to ask, if you'd want to know. Make her an ally if you can. 

I knew the OM and his wife, and while I informed her via email and she responded, we've never spoken since she sent that email reply. I don't think she wants to hear any details, and I respect that wish.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

confused59 said:


> Ok thanks, i have read a lot of other posts and found good info. its amazing how people so different and far away can experience the same feelings as you.
> 
> Before i knew about the EA/PA, i was focused on myself and a lot of things i did and didn't do that contributed to this. i think that has already helped. now im just pissed...


Yeah. Even with all our work experience and looking at other people's lives but when it happens to us and right under our own noses simply because we did not want to believe that about the one we love, we tend to feel pretty stupid. I do legal research for my job, I teach students how to use the legal library and how to do online research on how to find out information yet I ignored all my ex's cheater signs and it took me some time before I started using my smarts to expose him and the ow. I "knew" what was going on, I just did not "want to know".
Never blame yourself for your wife's affair. You may have contributed to some problems in the marriage but you did NOT make her cheat on you. That was her choice.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

so far i only know of an EA. but looking back, there are signs that it was more than likely a PA too. i found out by her text messages with him, which were very sexually graphic. i think im going to do a little research so i dont bring it up with only one round in the chamber(texts). 

thanks for the advice on talking to the OM's W. i was worried about him intercepting if i didn't talk to her directly. As for her anger, i am more than willing to deal with it. i know i would go through a wide range of emotions, real fast, if she called me about it.

Your right about my friends though, they have never been through something like this, so hopefully they can just provide support. i dont think they can really understand unless you have gone through something like this.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

I read the 180. Good stuff. I am already doing some of this, but the rest i will do. i know im strong enough to do it.

Question: What do i do this weekend when she comes over to pack? i will do the 180, but should i even bring up the affair, which she still denies to everybody? my thoughts are i wont. i think i'll just contact the OM's W and let go of the tail on his end. i will also let everyone else know, which i think will bring her out of her little rosie fairy tale she's in right now.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

confused59 said:


> so far i only know of an EA. but looking back, there are signs that it was more than likely a PA too. i found out by her text messages with him, which were very sexually graphic. i think im going to do a little research so i dont bring it up with only one round in the chamber(texts).
> 
> thanks for the advice on talking to the OM's W. i was worried about him intercepting if i didn't talk to her directly. As for her anger, i am more than willing to deal with it. i know i would go through a wide range of emotions, real fast, if she called me about it.
> 
> Your right about my friends though, they have never been through something like this, so hopefully they can just provide support. i dont think they can really understand unless you have gone through something like this.


RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG on the graphic text messages. That is exactly how I became suspicious of my ex's romps. I found a very graphic, sexual text thread between him and ow. (He had 2 ow, this was from the first ow) when I confronted him about it, he denied anything happen and that he was only being stupid and it didnt mean anything. I believed him because I wanted to, because it was easier to not look at the truth at the time. Just a week later, I found out about a second ow by what? By text messages of courses. This time it wasnt sexual but it was just inappropriate enough to raise more flags. He did stop contact with first ow (turns out he was sleeping with her) but he is still today involved with the 2nd ow and yes, he was banging her too.
I have a feeling there may be more than you know.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

confused59 said:


> I read the 180. Good stuff. I am already doing some of this, but the rest i will do. i know im strong enough to do it.
> 
> Question: What do i do this weekend when she comes over to pack? i will do the 180, but should i even bring up the affair, which she still denies to everybody? my thoughts are i wont. i think i'll just contact the OM's W and let go of the tail on his end. i will also let everyone else know, which i think will bring her out of her little rosie fairy tale she's in right now.


dont mention the affair unless you have evidence to back it up such as a paper trail or her on tape or some sort of evidence that does not let her get away with it. If you cant prove it, she's going to laugh at you. Do the 180, perhaps not even be there when she comes over to pack. Another thread on here is called "just let them go" read that also. Good stuff there.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Yeah, i've come to the realization of that too. I dont know if i even want to know details, or even care at this point. i think at this point it is a complete separation of all ties. especially since she wont even admit to it, which i dont even care about now. 

after talking about it, i feel that i just have to move on. if she wants to talk about it down the road... we'll see. i am just going the let the OM's W know and move on. any advice on this weekend?


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

just saw ur reply, i think i wont mention it till i have more proof which i dont know if i can get. after looking, she has been covering her tracks pretty good. i guess all that matters is that i know, the OM's W will know and our family and friends will know.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Ok, really need some help with this. I haven't gotten many different answers and none of them came from people who have been through something like this.

i have done some more research, and well, obviously my W (sorry, cheating W) has covered her tracks well. i really dont think i will be able to find any concrete evidence. she has cut out all information about the OM, including from her friends. she met him on FB (reconnected) and has hid information from everyone. she still tells them she broke it off :rofl: i have the OM's cell #, that i copied when i saw the texts. tried doing reverse search, didn't work, may try another. she is doing well so far from keeping his name a secret, and i assume this is because he is married too. 

i need to know if you think i should continue to try and track his name down or just tell her i know and keep moving on. i have also just thought about calling the OM and confronting him and tell him my next call is too his wife, although i dont know who he or his W is. 

i feel like i really need to find somewhat of a closure on this. i know i said i would just move on, but i cant let it go, nor do i feel like i should. so do i just keep telling friends and family as i see them, as she will be denying it to them. do i call the guy like i said earlier. do i not mention it, keep moving on and know that a giant s*#t storm will catch up to her eventually.

i feel at this point that there is no chance of getting back togethor, no kids, house, major financial issues. i know im a good catch, and she screwed it up. i feel like i need to move on. im 32 and not getting younger and have always wanted a family. i dont know if the work that would need to be done would even be worth it, especially since she is still denying it and i can see this dragging out a long time. i am still in love with the old W, the new one is a completely different person. i dont know if i could love the new her, especially since it is all lies.

i am ready to move on, do you have thoughts on this closure or moving on without it. I know i will never get REAL closure, but i feel there needs to be some type of closure. thanks I'll hang up and listen...lol


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

How do you know she had an EA? From some stuff you saw on facebook?


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

from the text messages i found on her phone, the very sexually graphic ones. and i know she has been talking to him for a while now. all of the hiding text and closing facebook pages when you walk in the room. my dumb ass, chalked it up to, well, probably talking with one of the girls. lots of signs i didnt see before i thought she could never do anything like this.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

confused59 said:


> from the text messages i found on her phone, the very sexually graphic ones. and i know she has been talking to him for a while now. all of the hiding text and closing facebook pages when you walk in the room. my dumb ass, chalked it up to, well, probably talking with one of the girls. lots of signs i didnt see before i thought she could never do anything like this.


any other signs you saw before she moved out? Was she extra protective of her phone? Would she take the call in another room if you were around when normally she wouldnt? Or would she hurry up and get off the phone if you walked into the room unexpectedly? Did she ever use the words "just a friend"? If you asked her something about what she was doing, did she ever seem uneasy, make a laugh or a joke and seemingly brushed your question off and then quickly change the subject?
Was she ever late coming home from work but had an excuse? Did she ever need to leave for work early? If you normally went with her to run errands, did she now want to go alone? Did she ever seem more concerned about her looks and appearance?


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

first off, i really did traust her, wholeheartedly. however, saying that, i think that led to my demise.

there were a few instances where i walked in the office and she would quickly close out chat logs. then act kind of oh, oh, hey, whats going on, change of subject.

she has also been very protective of her phone. ALWAYS keeps it with her. even when she got up and went to the bathroom. I thought that she was just addicted to FB, which she is.

She would go on drives. you know, a little alone time. one time she left and was gone an hour and a half and then came back and said she forgot her camera. which she grabbed and left. she does like to take pictures, but, come on.

she was laid of for two years then got a part time job a couple months ago. there have been many times where she has to go in early or stay late. one of the problems is that i am usually gone from 9 to 9 on work days, so she may work 4 hours that day, and have the rest to herself. i guess thats where the idle hands quote comes from.

i found her text messages that started out saying she wished she was there with him on the couch, thats what he said he was doing. then she said she had a dream about him naked last night, and he was so excited to tell her that he had the same dream (insert sarcasm). then, the talk turned to my W's breasts and a shower scene that i will leave to your imagination.

when i confronted her about this she paused for a LONG time, then siad she wasn't cheating. then went into a whole, im not happy and haven't been happy for years. am i even love with her anymore and do i even know who she is.

then next morning, i need a break. while leaving, said she was not thinking divorce. next conversation a few days later, after i called her to talk, she just mentioned our affairs and when to file the D paperwork. that sudden, won't talk about it. i haven't even tried to talk to her about it because she has seemingly made up her mind.

she tells friends she broke it off with him, highly doubtful. i even talked to her a little while ago about splitting our cell phone contract up. i had registered online to see our options. well, i had to "link" our phones to the account. sprint sent a text message with a code to enter. i texted her for the code. she texted me back why i needed the code. i told her. she then called. she asked agin why i needed it and couldn't i just call sprint. she never gave me the code. the phones are in my name, so i think im just going to cancel the phone and let her fend for herself.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

oh, and there were times when i could see she was deleting stuff off her phone. again, i delete things off my phone to save storage, but hindsight tells me she wasn't doing it for space.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Just about ALL the classic affair signs, and she is following the affair script, almost to a tee. Everything, from the hiding and closing out windows on the pc, guarding her cell phone, long, unexplained disappearances, the denials, the "I've been unhappy for a long time" speech, etc, etc. And now she wants to cake eat. Here's a gameplan, take from it what applies to you.

First off, know that the affair is not your fault. Have you been the perfect husband? Of course not, no one is. What I see clearly is that you are blaming yourself for her affair. She had other options besides cheating, such as communicating with you on working out the marital problems, going to Marriage Counseling (MC), divorce, etc. Yet she chose the easy option: cheating. Most likely because the Other Man (OM) stroked her ego and provided the shoulder to cry on. Your wife is now a Wayward Wife (WW), so consider as such. She will give the common excuses: You weren’t there for her, OM provided for her needs because you couldn’t, etc.

The last thing you should do is to cry, beg, and/or plead with her. This not only makes you unattractive, it drives her away. Trying your best to be the best husband doesn’t work either, because you cannot compete with the fantasy she has built up with the OM.

Now you have to play detective in order to save your marriage, or to get the proof you need to end it. If you can afford it, hire a PI. If not, you will have to do this on your own. What you also need to find out is who exactly the OM is, his identity, if he’s married, and if he’s married, his Betrayed Wife’s (BW) contact information. You will need this info later on.

We Betrayed Spouses (BS) call this investigating. Others call it snooping. The cardinal rule about investigating is NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!! This will prevent her from denying the A, which they almost always do at first until presented with proof of the A. This will also prevent her from gas lighting you. Gas lighting is a term used when the WW, when confronted, will say that you are just jealous, imagining things, and that you are just crazy. Gathering enough proof of the A, also prevents the Wayward Spouse (WS) her, from giving you the Trickle Truth (TT). TT is when the WS minimizes what they have done in the A, and will only admit to what they think you know. For example: Most will say they only kissed their Affair Partner (AP) once, when in fact they went much farther than that. If the A has gone to a PA, they usually only admit to doing it once & with a condom! 

If the WS is using a computer as part of the tools of the A, then you will need to install computer monitoring software, the basic ones are keyloggers. There are free ones, which basically only record keystrokes, to the more expensive ones that record keystrokes, capture screenshots of the computer, email you the results, etc. There are good ones like Spector Pro, Web Watcher, Spy Agent, etc. There are also free ones, but you get what you pay for. Why do you need a keylogger? So you can be aware of their communications, such as how long this has been going on, what they have done, and what they are planning to do. Another key tool cheaters use is the secret email account. A keylogger will capture their usernames and passwords. 

Now you might feel guilty about investigating/verifying. Sorry, but their privacy went out the window the second they endangered the marriage by having an A. It is your right to investigate now, so don’t lose any sleep or feel guilty about it. If they try to turn it around on you (blame shift), tell them it’s your right because they are having an A. 

Another tool that cheaters use is the cell phone of course. Some carriers allow you to check online who the other person is calling and/or texting. If you don’t have access to this information, then use the keylogger to obtain it. If your WS has a smart phone, you may be able to install phone monitoring software such as Mobile Spy or Mobistealth. This will allow you to see their text messages. The more expensive versions of Mobile Spy and Mobistealth even allow you to listen in on their conversations in near real time, and use the GPS to track their location. If your WS suspects that you are on to them, they may purchase a secret cell phone. A clue that your WS has a secret cell phone is if they suddenly leave their regular cell phone lying about when before they were guarding it at all times. This brings me to the Voice Activated Recorder (VAR). 

A VAR can be purchased very cheap, usually around $40 or more, at either Walmart, Best Buy, or your local electronics store. A VAR can be very useful at determining if your WS has a secret cell phone. Also, a strategically placed VAR can be very useful if you are unable to install phone monitoring software on their cell phone. A good place to hide a VAR is in the WS vehicle. If there is one place they feel secure in talking with their AP, it’s in their vehicle. Some place it under the drivers seat with industrial strength Velcro. It’s up to you where you can place your VAR. You may want to hide one in your bedroom or the bathroom in order to record their conversations.

Once you have gathered your proof, it is time to confront your WW. This is called the Day of Discovery (DDay). This may well be the most traumatic day of your life. If you have gathered enough proof, your WW will not be able to deny, gas light, or TT you. Your WW will either go into crying fits, be angry, or both. She will try to blame you for the A, tell you she has been unhappy for months or years. Re-Writing the history of the marriage is a common tactic, they use it to justify the A to themselves. Stay strong and know this is not your fault! This is hers!

She will say that she does not know what she wants. This is called fence sitting. She wants the security of marriage, but wants to play around with her OM. Do not stand for this. It is either you or him. There is no room in a marriage for 3 partners. 

Another common occurrence is that the WS will leave the house when confronted on DDay. This is usually only for a few days or weeks. The WW will usually contact the OM about what happened. The WW usually comes home after a few days, but sometimes they don’t. DO NOT beg her to come home. Like I said earlier, this makes you look weak. 

Another common tactic that the WS does is to cry and plead that they want to fix the marriage after they have been caught, but then they take the A “underground”. This is when the WS has talked to the AP about ways to continue the A without your knowledge. This is usually when they resort to using a secret email account and a secret cell phone. If you have not revealed your sources, then you can usually find out if they have taken the A underground. 

If they wish to stay in the marriage, then you have to remain firm and demand No Contact (NC). They must end the affair and go NC. That is the ONLY way to save your marriage, by killing the affair. An A is exactly like a drug, because the WS receives a “high” from the affair. Feel good chemicals like dopamine and others, are excreted in the brain during the A. Giving them a high feeling, the feeling of being in love, etc. 

If your WS is very deep in the fog of the A, and refuses to go NC, or the OM/OW refuses to go NC, then the next step is exposing the A. This means contacting the other BS. This serves two purposes. This helps kill the affair by bringing it into the light of day, and you have another set of eyes watching the other side of the affair. You might even be able to compare notes with the BS and find out more information, or they may have information about the A that you didn’t know about. The other reason is because it’s the right thing to do. Wouldn’t you want someone to have told you what was going on?

Remember the monitoring I was telling you about? Monitoring the WW will allow you to know if she has broken NC. If the OM contacts her and she doesn’t tell you about it, that is also breaking NC. And if you ultimately decide to Reconcile (R), then monitoring will help rebuild trust. After you keep finding nothing, and she is doing her part in R, then you will find yourself monitoring less and less. Eventually you may be able to wean yourself off from monitoring her since she has rebuilt some trust.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26360-betrayed-spouse-script.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/26439-bill-rights-betrayed.html


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I saw your other post where you mentioned that this OM is who she reconnected with is an old high school boyfriend on facebook, which was exactly my situation. This sh!t happens all the time now and is just so common.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

wow thats a lot to take in. I really appreciate u letting me know what some of the abbreviations stand for, lol. i hadn't quite figured them all out.

Here's the problem. She moved out. moved in with her parents. we aren'y talking, except about what to do with money and house(rental) issues. that is my dilemna. i don't know if i'll be able to figure out more details because she has pretty much erased any evidence. 

if she was still here at home with me, believe me, i would do pretty much everything on that list. as it stands, she does not want to talk. Our "mutual" friends, basically all my really good friends wives, have been fed the, " im just not happy anymore and i broke it off with the OM right away"

i have already told them my knowing of her seeing the OM. and after they have talked to her, they both have said "oh reallly, thats not how she made it seem" which i know she wouldn't. i know her, and i know she is deathly afraid of family and friends finding out.

so, where do i go from here? i keep talking myself in and out of calling the OM's W, which i know i can eventually figure out, and also the OM's name. or do i just call the OM (only have cell #) and confront him and threaten to call his wife. I know i will just get smoke and mirrors from him, but maybe just saying, "the next call i make is to your wife" will force something. and i would only do this if i couldn't figure out who the OM's W was or him. 

on the other hand, if she does not want to work it out, fine. then i have no other option than to move on, which i have been preparing myself to do. i have read the 180 and like it. i am already committed to it. at first i did have fear of the unknown. where would i live, what will i do, what about the pets, house, poker nights, crap i just did a ton of landscaping, oh and i am watering grass seed i just planted because there is no reason for it because ill be out of there in a month. Crap like that going through my head.

It seems like a lot of the time, when the BS is a man, many assume they have let their WW walk all over them. this is not the case in my situation. i know many of the things i did wrong. i think we were just in a rut, going through the motions sometimes. there were ups and downs.

i think what gets me the most, is that a lot of stories i have read on here, there are usually arguements/talks, fighting, etc.. i got none of that. just bam! she's out, no talking.

i would like to hire a PI, buy i really cant aford it, focused on moving out right now. but do i REALLY need one? I mean, i know, so isnt that what matters. 

one last thing i forgot, when she told me she wasn't happy, she said "i tried talking to you about this" Bulls#@t, i asked her when we had these conversations and she said when we argue. i told her that there is a huge difference between talking/arguing and having a serious discussion about her/my/our happiness. this was a big red flag to me(which i did not see right away). seemed as though she was trying to justify her actions by saying she tried, and i wouldn't listen. trust me, i would have woke up real quick and worked on anything, had we ACTUALLY had that conversation.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

If you are going to expose the A to his betrayed wife, the LAST thing you want to do is give him any warning. Because he will immediately try to do damage control. He will tell his wife not to accept calls or any emails from you, by telling her you are some lunatic that has it out for him. Of course, she will believe HIM, because that's her husband. Like others have said, you need to contact her directly, either by phone, or certified mail. Let her know that you have evidence of the ongoing affair, and that she is welcome to contact you. She may even have more evidence that you aren't aware of and you can compare notes - if she is ammendable to that.

Contacting the OM, while it may feel good and give you a badly needed ego boost, usually accomplishes nothing but pissing you off. He won't listen to you, he has no reason to. He already has no respect for you since he was already able to bed your WW. 

As you've already probably read, affairs thrive on secrecy. They are like mushrooms, growing on bullsh!t in the dark. You've already seen how your WW is deathly afraid of exposure and already begun to spin the story her way, right? Expose to everyone that you can, including her family, AND provide the evidence to back it up.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks, sound advice. ill keep working on the evidence part, like i said, hard right now being so separate. im going to figure out who the OM and OMW is. 

i guess im just a little worried about calling her with so little evidence, im sure OM could just say im overreacting and a jealous/crazy H. i think i really need more evidence before contacting the OMW. However, i really dont know if i'll be able to get it, i checked phone records. smart little cookie never called him, only texted, coincidently, you cannot retrieve those from your carrier.


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## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

lord mayhem preaches the affair gospel.


seriously. everything he said is right on.

if you want you can look into some of the more popular afair "programs" like marriage builders, or divorcebusters which offer advice that goes a little beyond what the lord here has told you.

as well there is the commonly refered to 180 which all BS are exposed to to help in affair situations.

but be informed that the 180 is for YOU. the side affect could be a saved marriage.


and hes right about contacting the OM.
i want to do it so badly, but really it does nothing right now. maybe int the future when all is god, but seriously itll probably do more harm than good at this point.

best of luck.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

confused59 said:


> i guess im just a little worried about calling her with so little evidence, im sure OM could just say im overreacting and a jealous/crazy H. i think i really need more evidence before contacting the OMW. However, i really dont know if i'll be able to get it, i checked phone records. smart little cookie never called him, only texted, coincidently, you cannot retrieve those from your carrier.


I feel for you because you're at a disadvantage with regards to evidence gathering. It's not your fault, like the rest of us, you implicitly trusted her, so you weren't able to see the red flags until it was too late. You're right about the texts, there is no way you can retrieve those, not without a court order, and they will only do that in a criminal investigation, not a civil matter like this. With such little evidence, OM can spin the story any way he wants to his BW. 

If she used the computer, there may be a possibility of retrieving her usernames and passwords. It's not guaranteed, but many browsers store usernames and passwords, and there are free programs that you can download programs that might be able to retrieve them. That's how I first discovered a way into her secret facebook profile that she created, this was long before I knew about computer monitoring software like Web Watcher, Spy Agent, Spector Pro, etc. 

What you need to do besides exposure, is to go ahead and file for the D. It may shock her out of the fog, or it may not. Since she has already moved out, then she and OM have already made plans to be together. She's just waiting for OM to leave his BW, at least that's her fantasy. Time is of the essence here, so try to get as much evidence as you can before exposing it to to OMW. 90% of the time, OM don't leave their wives, they prefer to cake eat. Upon exposure, OM may throw your WW under the bus and will be in damage control mode to try and save his marriage. That is just one possibility. 

There is still the possibility of using the VAR. I assume you still have keys to her vehicle? If so, then you can still place the VAR in her vehicle while she's at work, then retrieve it the next day, and so on.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Well, heres an update. it was getting very frustrating and very hard emotionally to keep trying to find evidence. so friday i talked to her her when she came to pick up things from the house. i know you said i need evidence, but i had to say something.

i told her that there was nothing i wouldn't have done or worked on to save the marriage. however, i am done and moving on because i know you have been having an affair and continue with it now. of course she lied, which i was already prepared for. so i told her i believe none of her lies. she didn't have much to say except that she swore she wasn't having an affair.

later that night my brother called me to tell me how to get onto her email account, which i did. well i was not prepared for what i found, even though i already knew. well... she was having an affair with two guys, thats right, two guys. FML. The one guy is a real winner. the only proof i had on him was emails talking about how inappropriate the texting and emailing was between them since she was married. it also talked about inappropriate pictures sent back and forth between them. 

well the other guy is the one i have been talking about before (where i found the text messages from). i found emails dating back over a year ago. no smoking gun, but a gun none the less. the emails read as if they had been seeing each other for a while. calling each other honey and crap like that. there were also pictures that she took of him, at his house then sent them to her email so she could send them to him. i found these pics on his FB page. doesn't look like he's married either. i thought she might have said that to throw people off, which friends said she wasn't that smart to do. well i didnt put anything past her and i was right to think she could be lying about that too.

so when she called, i called her out on her s*#t. she of course lied about it. then i told her i had copies of her emails. she asked why i went onto it, i told her that we were still married and she gave up her right to privacy when she stepped out of the marriage. she then denied ever actually seeing him. so i told her about the pictures she took and....silence. so i went on a little rant about how messed up her lying is to everyone. how she chose to find comfort in another man, instead of talking to me. and the only thing she said was "sorry, i never meant for any of this to happen." Great thanks, i feel so much better now. 

i have informed her family and all our friends of what is really going on, everyone is shocked she would do something like this. so, im meeting with a divorce attorney next week to go over the nexts steps in filing for D.

My biggest issues right now are emotional, which i am working on.

1. If i had not found those text messages, theres no telling where this would have ended up or how long it would have went on.

2. After 12 years togethor i would have thought i at least deserved the truth. I think it would have been easier to deal with if i at least knew the truth from the start.

3. Her leaving like that and not telling me truth, caused me to beat myself up for over a week on what i did wrong. playing out the whole marriage in my head, wondering how horrible of a husband i must have been for her to just walk away. I know this is not the case now, i know i wasn't a perfect husband but i did my best and loved her unconditionally. i have support from family and friends, however it has been a roller coaster of finding out more and more information, that left new wounds every day.

Now, i guess i'll just have to take it one day at a time. Thanks again to everyone for their support and advise.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

The support and advice is ALWAYS there for you mate.
Best wishes and stay strong. We're all here together.


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

She pretty much bailed on you and feels no true remorse. This was an exit affair for her to continue seeing this guy. She's never gonna fess up tot he truth, bro. You should expose her for what she REALLY is- A CHEATER.


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

I'm so sorry that you're in the same boat with the rest of us. It's really nothing I would ever wish on another living soul, not even on my own WS. There nothing quite like the pain that we get to deal and live with. I wish you the best and know that we are all here to help you through this, even ahhhmaaaan! He can be a little gruff, but I think it's only because he cares, even if he won't admit it.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

RestlessInGeorgia said:


> even ahhhmaaaan! He can be a little gruff, but I think it's only because he cares, even if he won't admit it.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

That is the most accurate statement ever!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

Not at all. I _do_ care. And like you said... I _can_ be a little gruff. As all of you know already- I'm a straight shooter. I don't like it when the obvious is staring you in the face, and people are just so quick to mend things right away and get on with R. Sometimes R is just not in the books. She seems to not feel one ounce of remorse, as she keeps lying to this guy. I mean... JESUS... you've been caught already... admit it. He at least deserves the truth. But waht does she do... goes and runs to mommy and daddy like an immature teenager... hiding in her room... hoping it will go away soon.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

lol, ahhman, you got it exactly right. i see no way of a R. this has gone beyond that now. and your right, that is my feeling too. she doesn't even have the balls to tell me the truth, she just ran away. and the sad part is when she finally comes out of the fog, she will have nobody left. her/our friends don't want to see her, they've been lied to about all of this. her family doesn't even want to be around her. her parents are probably going to kick her out of their house soon. and when she realizes the mistakes she made, i will not be there for her. there is no way i could ever trust her again. im 32 and was ready to start a family. i dont see a point in a R that i would even feel comfortable having kids with her. so, i guess, back into the sea i go....


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

confused59 said:


> back into the sea i go....


Just remember that you're not swimming alone.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

thanks numb


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm so sorry that you found out that its worse than you have possibly imagined, that this wasn't just an EA, and evidence points that it went PA as well. Now you've seen first hand how the WS will deny, deny, deny, and deny some more. Its good that you did what she was afraid of, exposing the A. That should ruin her little fantasy of thinking she could just run away and no one would know her dirty secrets. The bad part of your situation is that there is now OMW for you to expose the A to. The good part is that now you know for certain that it was not your fault, that there are other parties involved in the demise of the marriage, and she chose them. No need to beat yourself up about it anymore. 



confused59 said:


> lol, ahhman, you got it exactly right. i see no way of a R. this has gone beyond that now. and your right, that is my feeling too. she doesn't even have the balls to tell me the truth, she just ran away. and the sad part is when she finally comes out of the fog, she will have nobody left. her/our friends don't want to see her, they've been lied to about all of this. her family doesn't even want to be around her. her parents are probably going to kick her out of their house soon. and when she realizes the mistakes she made, i will not be there for her. there is no way i could ever trust her again. im 32 and was ready to start a family. i dont see a point in a R that i would even feel comfortable having kids with her. so, i guess, back into the sea i go....


She and OM#2 have been planning this out for a while now it looks like. She thought she could get away with walking out on you and making it appear that she was just unhappy, you were just a jerk, she fell out of love, and be free to have her relationship with her OM#2 and tell everyone it was AFTER she left you. You put a stop to that alright. 

Don't believe the bull that she said she never meant for any of this to happen. Cheating is a choice, actually a whole series of choices had to be made, it was not a mistake and it didn't just happen.

No kids? I know it doesn't feel like it, but you are lucky that this came out before any children were involved. Imagine finding this out after having 2 or more young children in the middle of this. Now you know that she isn't the one for you. There are other women out there who would kill to have a stable, faithful and loyal husband. You have a lot to offer. Keep us updated on your situation. There is a possibility that now the A has been exposed for all the world to see, the whole thrill that she got from it is gone and she may start to waffle between OM and you. Stay strong. If she doesnt try to sit on the fence, then the better for you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Confused59,
Just wanted to tell you your not alone and there isn't much advice I have to say...its already been said!

Hang in there and it sound like you are are going to be fine. I know some days are hard, but it sound like you got a solid out look and a solid plan, so work the plan.

Be prepared there is a good chance that now that you have made this affair as uncomfortable and as inconvienent as possible (good job by the way) the affair may not look as good in the light of day and it will start to get stress. She may be crawling back soon.

Its all exciting and taboo but once the affair is brought to light it tends to start falling apart...reality will set in and I can see her changing her mind...not now but give it time and be prepared.

The rollercoaster will pick up speed once she sees through the fog. One day she wants you back the next day not so much, just be prepare for more of her BS further down the road.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks again guys (and gals),
These last two weeks have been pretty [email protected]#tty, it feels like its been a whirlwind. i guess one thing im thankful for is that we dont have kids togethor. i've read a lot of your guys stories and can't imagine what it would be like to have kids thrown in the mix. 

I do feel better slapping the A on her chest. At this point, like i said before, theres no chance of a R. so im just gonna move on. I kind of drift back and forth between sadness/anger and optimism and calmness. Weird? i read the just let her go thread and that really helped. I'm sure theres more to come since i still have to see her a few more times (when she gets her stuff), but i take comfort in the fact that i am moving on and making plans to better myself. Im sure she's still having to deal with all her lies and family. I hope she comes crawling back crying, then i can see some remorse before i tell her to go pound sand. :smthumbup:

I KNOW i would not be where im at right now without all your help/support/advice. i truely mean that. THANK YOU. 

Im sure i will be here a long time. there is so much tried and true advice, and what did/didn't work for people. I still have a lot of questions, but as of right now, i feel better than i did yesterday, which is better than i felt the day before. That helps me looking forward. if everyday is better than the last, than i dont think i can complain too much.

although my luck, i'll have to start a new thread tomorrow titled: "you won't believe what this [email protected]$tch just did". :rofl:


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## RestlessInGeorgia (Dec 3, 2008)

confused59 said:


> I hope she comes crawling back crying, then i can see some remorse before i tell her to go pound sand.


Here's the major thing you need to remember. Your emotions will change from day-to-day. One day you will be happy in your choice of not wanting to work things out. The next day you may be wondering what if I had given her one more chance. Just know that no one on these boards, that truly cares, will look down on you if you should attempt an R. You have to make the decision that's right for you and your life. Those of us that have chosen to forgive and R with our WS's just want to make sure that we've tried everything before ending the marriage once and for all. I personally want to be able to leave with no regrets, and I'm afraid that if I just leave right now, I will suffer from the "what if's". My wife has shown genuine remorse, has become completely transparent, and supports me fully when I break down emotionally. I just wish she was a little more pro-active about some things. Just know that you need these things and more if you decide to R with you wife. I wish you all the best of luck and the best life has to offer because you deserve it and more. Good luck my friend.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Well, with a little more double checking, turns out the OM IS married. so i sent her a private message on FB. i gave her the basics and told her to call me if she wanted to talk. so, i guess we'll see where it goes from here. it sure feels nice knowing i just [email protected]*cked his s#@t up, like he did to my marriage. I'll let you know later what happens, just messaged her and am assuming i will get a call from her. I'm sure she will be emotional, but i am ready for any emotions, even if she takes it out on me, i won't take it personally. so if she wants i will give her the details, but i guess the ball is in her court now.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

WELL DONE SIR!
I salute you.
That poor woman is going to have some hard desicions to make, but at least she can make them based on truth.
And I hope he suffers like hell


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

So you find out your WW lied about the OM not being married. As usual, they LIE. What may happen now that you have exposed the A to OMW is: He starts scrambling to save his marriage and throws your WW under the bus. OMW may kick him out, but eventually he will beg to come home. OM very rarely leave their wives over a piece of @ss they have been banging, unless they are very emotionally invested in their OW. They prefer to cake eat. So if he throws your WW under the bus, don't be surprised if she calls and says she wants to come home and work on the marriage all of a sudden. Like I said, this is a possibility.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

i got kind of a weird vibe from their FB pages (OM & OMW), couldnt see much, but appeared they may be separated. Don't know for sure yet, havn't heard back from OMW yet. I can see it both ways, he could be just getting his cake, or he could be separated and found my WW shoulder to lean on, figuratively and probably literally. i guess i'll just have to wait and see. it will be interesting to see, if they are separated, when it happened. im sure it will probably be around the time my W strayed.

I do have thoughts about a PA though. I have no evidence of it, but EVERYTHING points that it was, so I'll just have to go with my gut on that. I obviously have proof of a full blown EA though. 

the thing i keep thinking about is that we still havn't talked about it. I know i said that i am moving on, which im doing. But, i still can't get over the fact that she doesn't want to sit down and have an HONEST talk about how this all went down. i think i would have at least deserved that much with how long weve been togethor and all of the hurdles weve jumped togethor. I guess im just havng an off day.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

havn't heard back from OMW yet. 

May take her some time to compose ehrself and build up the courage to hear what she may not want to hear - if she doesn't already know.

I'll just have to go with my gut on that.

Yep.

But, i still can't get over the fact that she doesn't want to sit down and have an HONEST talk about how this all went down.

The Fog my friend, the fog.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

confused59 said:


> I do have thoughts about a PA though. I have no evidence of it, but EVERYTHING points that it was, so I'll just have to go with my gut on that. I obviously have proof of a full blown EA though.


As usual, go with your gut on this. Like you said, he posted pictures on FB that your WW took. Then you have the evidence of the emails that strongly hint at it. Therefore, there is both motive and opportunity. I'm already of the opinion that when a WS is in a EA, its merely a prelude to the PA, and that the EA will go to PA if they at least live in the same city or even an hour and a half away. Because after a while, the sexual stimulation from the EA fantasy is no longer enough and they have to take it to the next level.

But the point is moot, since you are not in limbo and are already headed towards D. You should probably try to stop thinking about it and try to detach from your WW. If OMW answers, fine. If she doesn't, then at least you tried.


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## confused59 (Jun 28, 2011)

Well, i haven't heard back from the OMW yet. I missed some calls that i didn't recognize, could have been her, didn't leave a message.

These last few days have been pretty sh!$$y. For some reason the other day the feeling of just missing her came over me. I've had that stomach twisting in my stomach for 2 days now. I'm sure it will go away. I've been out doing a lot of things with friends and family the last week, and its been good. but as soon as i stop doing something, it comes right back into my head.

I really think a big part of it is that she doesn't want to talk about it. i haven't talked to her in over a week, since i called her out over the phone on her sh!t. i think that kind of rattled her a bit. I don't know if i told you, but she actually asked me on the phone why i was being mean to her? Can u believe that. I was not yelling or swearing, more just laying down the law of what i knew and how all of this is a result of her actions. I told her i thought i was being pretty [email protected]$king civil, considering what she has done.

I've actually had a few women from the past contact me already about going out for drinks :smthumbup: I dont think im ready for that yet though. I meet one of them at a bar after our softball game, and it just didn't feel right. I feel like my sex drive is pretty low too. I would assume that would be kind of common for a BS. I had a very high sex drive before, but not now. That BETTER go away 

I just feel like we should still have an honest talk, but i guess i'll have to leave that in her court, but i dont think she wants to right now. We will still have to see each other for a while to take care of all the financial and property stuff. so i guess i'll just have to see how that goes.


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