# I can't beleive Im listening to my ***** wife



## Joka

I can not believe I am hearing a recording of my wife talking sex with another guy. It seems I have been married to a ***** for 7 years.


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## EleGirl

How long have you known that she was cheating?


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## Turin74

Assuming this is VAR in your car, never got discovered? No irony or sarcasm, I feel for you.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## GusPolinski

Talking about sex, talking about having sex, talking about sex that they've had, talking about sex that they're planning to have...?

Any combination of the above?


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## BobSimmons

If you're at home please leave. If you're not at home then stay away and cool down.

You didn't specify whether they were simply talking about sex or whether they had sex or that they want to have sex with each other.

Do not confront! And do not run to her with the recording or she'll definitely know she's being recorded and your ability to gather intelligence will be over.

Play it smart and you can blow this out of the water with irrefutable evidence.


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## Joka

GusPolinski said:


> Talking about sex, talking about having sex, talking about sex that they've had, talking about sex that they're planning to have...?
> 
> Any combination of the above?


All of that and past affairs


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## Turin74

Any chance they knew there was/is a VAR?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Pamvhv

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I hadn't woken my husband up and confronted him immediately after reading the text messages he wrote about me to his new lady friend that he left me for. Calm down, sleep on it, wait for firm evidence then confront.


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## Joka

Turin74 said:


> Any chance they knew there was/is a VAR?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Absolutely not.


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## Turin74

Joka said:


> Turin74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance they knew there was/is a VAR?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

Sorry just checked your other thread and had a thought this may be deliberate to get under your skin... pretty brazen to talk about all of this in a context of one conversation.

Stay strong and rational as much as you can please

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Joka

Turin74 said:


> Sorry just checked your other thread and had a thought this may be deliberate to get under your skin... pretty brazen to talk about all of this in a context of one conversation.
> 
> Stay strong and rational as much as you can please
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Thanks Turin. I think it is time for my lawyer to send that representation letter that I had drafted a couple of months ago. 
Now there is no question at all.


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## Decorum

I am sorry Joka.
The way forward is clear now.
Take care of yourself and get to the otherside of this nightmare.


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## Joka

Decorum said:


> I am sorry Joka.
> The way forward is clear now.
> Take care of yourself and get to the otherside of this nightmare.


Thanks


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## Turin74

Joka said:


> Thanks Turin. I think it is time for my lawyer to send that representation letter that I had drafted a couple of months ago.
> Now there is no question at all.



And - in my humblest off opinions - the right path is to stay rational, resolute and focused on actions... which your clearly do. To abstract your emotions from actions.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Joka

Turin74 said:


> And - in my humblest off opinions - the right path is to stay rational, resolute and focused on actions... which your clearly do. To abstract your emotions from actions.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


It may look like I am calm but I am a wreck inside. I hope I can get to indifference real fast in all of this. It would be great to not give a crap while going through the process to not care about where she is and all that.
How cool would it be to whistle through it all with a smile.


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## Joka

It is 3 am and I am going to be a wreck in the morning. I still have 2 hours to listen to


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## EleGirl

Can you hear both sides of the conversation? Or is it just her talking on the phone?

Where are you right now? Home? 

Where is she?


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## Joka

EleGirl said:


> Can you hear both sides of the conversation? Or is it just her talking on the phone?
> 
> Where are you right now? Home?
> 
> Where is she?


I can only hear her side. She is out of town and I am awake in bed at 3:30am


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## Joka

boy, I am going to be damaged goods after this one.

BS 57
WS52
Lived together 13 years
Married 7


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## Decorum

Joka said:


> boy, I am going to be damaged goods after this one.


It says more about her than you.

Yay it will hurt like hell, and will make you question everything, everything!

I think you should stop listening for now.

She does not deserve for you to hurt so much.

So many stages to go through, and its all fresh.

You are probably in shock and denial, anger is on its way.

Keep it together and put what is good for you first.


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## johny1989

Talk with her and ask her what the h is going on.. and tell her you know whatever she talked with that guy and you have a proof of it and finished this topic..


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## manfromlamancha

Joka, NEVER reveal the source of your information (for many reasons). Especially in the case of a VAR. Telling her too much may tip her off that you have a recording device in her car.

Instead say something like it has come to your attention, conclusively and beyond the shadow of a doubt, that she has been cheating with more than one man. Then invite her to come clean on her own and see what she says. This has the added benefit of knowing whether she does tell you stuff on her own and is really sorry about it.


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## Joka

Wow! I am on 3 hours of sleep. My other recording is downloading and my WW texts me "Good morning, Love you"
WTF


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## Unique Username

She is out of town....I would text back saying go ahead and stay where you are. You can arrange to pick up your personal belongings in the next few weeks.

And if you have a joint bank account....open a new Single one at a new bank. Change your direct deposit to go there. 

You have kids? Are they grown and out of the house?


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## Lloyd Dobler

Joka said:


> Wow! I am on 3 hours of sleep. My other recording is downloading and my WW texts me "Good morning, Love you"
> WTF


Joka,
she's just putting on an act to keep you in the dark (as she doesn't know about the VAR). You're going to need to put on an act for her so you can maintain a calm exterior while you continue to gather information.

Stay strong and don't let her head games get to you.


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## Unique Username

I don't understand why people feel the need to continue to gather information. If she has been unfaithful - and it is a deal breaker....then you have your answer.


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## Regret214

Joka said:


> Wow! I am on 3 hours of sleep. My other recording is downloading and my WW texts me "Good morning, Love you"
> WTF


As a former wayward, I've got a little insight here. Whenever I walk through the door, I give my husband a kiss hello. During my affair, I had to continue this or else it would've been out of character. Like I was, your wife is compartmentalizing her life. She simply doesn't know that you realize it. I'm sorry you're going through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn

Some of us have gone through what you have. Sleep deprived, emotional, etc. Then you have the smoking gun.

1. Don't go too long without sleep. You can make it through the day but I would not recommend another night of no sleep.

2.Think through exposure. There are many ways to do this but what ever method you use keep yourself under control.

3. If you don't want to expose right away then you may have to fake a headache or other illness to mask your emotions.

4. I wish I had the chance to do my exposure all over again in 2013. I listen to a VAR and went off immediatly on my wife. I wish I would not have reacted at that time.


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## Joka

Lloyd Dobler said:


> Joka,
> she's just putting on an act to keep you in the dark (as she doesn't know about the VAR). You're going to need to put on an act for her so you can maintain a calm exterior while you continue to gather information.
> 
> Stay strong and don't let her head games get to you.


I do not need anymore info. It's time to pull in all the VAR's and GPS.
I did not tell the whole story in this thread. I had a D Day mid January and found out that she had a 2 month affair. I was destroyed and paralyzed. Got a lawyer and paid them up. Told them to hold off sending the representation letter for a bit. I was so weak physically and mostly mentally. It really knocked me down. I read in a post somewhere that there was no rush and I needed that type of advise at the time. Since then I became obsessed getting to know information. She finally confessed and gave me TT. Well, in my obsession I started finding out that she had a relationship for almost a year with a doctor, and very small time with her VP boss. Then I found out very recently that she had an affair about 7 years ago with a boss from a previous company she worked at a time when I quit my career got married and moved with her and her kids to a different state. The move was not because of her affair I'm sure since it is a global company and everyone lives somewhere else. We lived together for 6 years and actually bought a house before we were married. In the latest conversation with what seems to be her new mark she describes how sexual she is and she is probably a sex addict, news to me. I hear her answer questions of sexual positions and such. So that is pretty much it. I guess I kept surveillance to keep getting information as to the type of chump I am. I got and am still getting played to this day. 
Since I found about what I thought was the first affair I new it was divorce time but everyday I would learn more. this has been going on since January. It is way over due now and the attorney just got an email from me as to how fast she can send the representation letter.
In hind site around March is when I was emotionally able to handle a divorce and should have pulled the trigger then. I kept getting info though and discovering how deep and long lasting this was. there is no way she will ever admit to any of it.
Maybe ignorance is bliss but I needed to know even though I new it would be more painful. 
that's most of my story

BS 57
WW52
2 step kids in college.
2 my kids older
Sad 8-(


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## Joka

You know what really gives me the red ass, I drained my bank account, gave up a job I liked a lot with full benefits, moved to an area away from my kids, sold my passion toy, stated a I have no financial recovery time, and she was having affairs at the time of these decisions we made smiling away. Now I am older and will have to buy health insurance. I have a very small business that only gives me 1/4 of the money I was making and I lost all social life.
That is what gives me the red ass!


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## cool12

what a terrible night you've had. sorry you are in this situation. get yourself some OTC sleep aids today. 

as painful as it is at least you have your ducks in a row and can move forward without her asap. at 52 you have lots of life left to live. 

as for your WW, wow. was she that promiscuous when you met?


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## Forest

Joka,

I'm pissed with you about the loss to your financial state. That is an area I hold pretty dear, too.

As for the WW, giving her both barrels (ah, figuratively?) would probably be therapeutic. Don't tell her what she did to you, she doesn't seem to care. Tell her what kind of person she really is, that seems to make a better impact. She's a lying, cheating, self absorbed hateful shrew. No conscience, no honor, no redeeming qualities.

For the OM, there's Cheaterville. From Google, LinkedIn, Facebook, Office/Business websites there are tons of links to their associates that you can anon email the Cheaterville posts. Then, notification of their higher ups, professional organizations, etc. Doctors and people in large corporations are very vulnerable to sexual misconduct discipline. Obviously, the OM's spouses, if any need to know.

These people all conspired to destroy your marriage, which you have invested in for many years. Adultery is still a crime in most states. Treat these bungholes like criminals and thieves. 
They are a dirty, stinking lot.


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## Lloyd Dobler

Joka said:


> I do not need anymore info. It's time to pull in all the VAR's and GPS.
> I did not tell the whole story in this thread. I had a D Day mid January and found out that she had a 2 month affair. I was destroyed and paralyzed. Got a lawyer and paid them up. Told them to hold off sending the representation letter for a bit. I was so weak physically and mostly mentally. It really knocked me down. I read in a post somewhere that there was no rush and I needed that type of advise at the time. Since then I became obsessed getting to know information. She finally confessed and gave me TT. Well, in my obsession I started finding out that she had a relationship for almost a year with a doctor, and very small time with her VP boss. Then I found out very recently that she had an affair about 7 years ago with a boss from a previous company she worked at a time when I quit my career got married and moved with her and her kids to a different state. The move was not because of her affair I'm sure since it is a global company and everyone lives somewhere else. We lived together for 6 years and actually bought a house before we were married. In the latest conversation with what seems to be her new mark she describes how sexual she is and she is probably a sex addict, news to me. I hear her answer questions of sexual positions and such. So that is pretty much it. I guess I kept surveillance to keep getting information as to the type of chump I am. I got and am still getting played to this day.
> Since I found about what I thought was the first affair I new it was divorce time but everyday I would learn more. this has been going on since January. It is way over due now and the attorney just got an email from me as to how fast she can send the representation letter.
> In hind site around March is when I was emotionally able to handle a divorce and should have pulled the trigger then. I kept getting info though and discovering how deep and long lasting this was. there is no way she will ever admit to any of it.
> Maybe ignorance is bliss but I needed to know even though I new it would be more painful.
> that's most of my story
> 
> BS 57
> WW52
> 2 step kids in college.
> 2 my kids older
> Sad 8-(


Joka,
so sorry you had to go through all of this crap. It sounds to me like you're on the right path the with divorce. I'm not sure if I was in your position that I'd like to hear what was on the VAR, especially since you pretty much knew all her past affairs.

Good luck moving on from this.


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## HubbyDaddy2013

So Sorry to hear Joka! It's reading threads like this that instill in my mind the fact that "A MAN SHOULD NEVER CHANGE WHAT THEY HAVE GOING FOR A WOMAN!!!"...

I have my own business that I have been growing for almost 14 years. I am finally pushing $50,000 a year with it. I work most of my Saturdays away, and my wife has a problem with it since I only have about 10 Saturdays off a year. She wants me to get a full time job somewhere 8-5 during the week even if I only make $9per hour (Bull****!). 

Your situation concludes what I will do. I will continue to work my own business, and do what's right for me. She will have to deal with me working most my Saturdays away. Tough Love!!! 



Sorry to hear about your situation! Time to Divorce her. I hate to say it, but your Wife is a Liar, Cheater, and a ***** to boot! She obviously does not care about you, and has committed Adultery multiple times. 

Forsaking all others, and being true to your Husband seems to be a big wedding vow many women seem to be nixing these days!!! (Every married man I know over age 30 has had their wife cheat on them...It is sad). I just caught mine in a "sexting" Emotional Affair with a married man who has 6 kids. I caught it early, and we are working on it, but that was, and will be her ONLY STRIKE. Next time she does it we are finished...and I have a 5 year old son. I can't stand cheaters.


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## bryanp

Sorry.

Make sure you get tested for STD's. Please expose her affairs to everyone of consequence.


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## HubbyDaddy2013

I also agree with BryanP. Expose her affair to EVERYONE who is close. Make her feel shame! That is what I did, and her world turned upside down real quick! 

She was crying, We had a rough afternoon with her Mother, and sister in law, and brother in law yelling at her, then we had about a 2 hour conversation. She cut off all communication with other man. I also exposed the other Man (Well our Sister in law did) and told his wife. Things have improved a lot since then (Only about 4 weeks ago though). 

Mine was different though. My wife hasn't physically cheated. (Confirmed as much as possible...99% sure she did not). Your wife has been in multiple affairs, and it's been on going. Also, you two are older (We are both 32). I don't think you will have the same outcome. However, exposure is important. She needs to feel some consequences.


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## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Regret214 said:


> As a former wayward, I've got a little insight here. Whenever I walk through the door, I give my husband a kiss hello. During my affair, I had to continue this or else it would've been out of character. Like I was, your wife is compartmentalizing her life. She simply doesn't know that you realize it. I'm sorry you're going through this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Excuse me off-topic but did you kiss both men on the same day and kiss your husband possibly after oral sex with OM?


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## lordmayhem

From your story, it looks like your entire marriage has been a lie. She has probably cheated on her ex husband too since she says shes a sex addict. 

She's a serial cheater. There's no going back on this one. 

She was probably looking for a daddy for her kids and some financial stability. Divorce this skank ASAP.


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## lordmayhem

bryanp said:


> Sorry.
> 
> Make sure you get tested for STD's. Please expose her affairs to everyone of consequence.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

No telling how many ONSs she been on too. She works out of town, so she's probably picked up guys in bars, as well as her long term affairs.

Expose the OM too. He's a doctor, right?


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## syhoybenden

So sorry my man.
Hang tough.
Please make sure the door hits her as.s on her way out.
Once she's in your rear-view and well downwind you'll enjoy how fresh the air smells.


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## bandit.45

So sorry Joka. 

You know, if you don't mind her knowing about the VARs, I would play the recordings through your stereo system as loud as possible when she gets home. I think that's what Xbetaman did with his VAR recordings. Blew his WW's mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Expose, expose, expose. I would send those recordings out like Santa spreading toys.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unique Username

Since you moved to appease her and her career...and you have a struggling business. I would ask for spousal maintenance from her...let her pay alimony. 

And as I said - I would text her to just stay where she is.

But first, go down and empty your joint bank account. Open a new Bank account in only your own name AT A DIFFERENT BANK. 
If she has you on her insurance through her company - then have that in the divorce decree - she either keeps you on that policy or pays for your insurance elsewhere. 
Since you have proof that she has had affairs with people in the company that she still works, then this is your leverage to get exactly what you want. Including the house or whatever else you want.

Your local planned parenthood will give you testing for all STDs including HIV - but you have to ask for the HIV test and the Herpes test. Hep C is also something that you would need to ask for testing. If you don't want to go this route...then go to a private doctor and save the bill because you will want her to reimburse you for it and any further follow-up care you may need if anything is positive for said STD.

Use your emotions here to get smart and get her where it hurts - the pocketbook.
Also - does she have retirement? Are you not entitled to half of what was gained since you wed?
You know the drill by now - account for all things financial.
Know exactly your assets and liabilities - have to have them for court anyway for division of property.

Might want to get all your financial ducks in a row before you confront her. And when you do confront do so calmly with no facial affect. 
You can use your VAR and GPS discovery as a tool to negotiate exactly what you want out of the marriage financially. OR you disclose to everyone what a wh0re she is...including to the previous VP/bosses spouse, the company, her family etc.

I wouldn't go all apeshyt like others say and disclose on cheaterville and all the other places. What good does that do? None. BUT you can use your "proof" as leverage for negotiation of what you want.

Good Luck to you. It sucks.


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## 6301

Joka said:


> You know what really gives me the red ass, I drained my bank account, gave up a job I liked a lot with full benefits, moved to an area away from my kids, sold my passion toy, stated a I have no financial recovery time, and she was having affairs at the time of these decisions we made smiling away. Now I am older and will have to buy health insurance. I have a very small business that only gives me 1/4 of the money I was making and I lost all social life.
> That is what gives me the red ass!


 There's a saying, "One good turn deserves another", and now it's time for her to get the same thing although she got a red ass from an entirely different way.

If it was me, I would instruct my lawyer to have her served at work, then take half the checking and savings and open a new account. 

I would also make sure that the wives of these affairs know about their husbands and above all, give her no wiggle room. Let her find out at work in front of everyone and have no mercy on her because she hasn't shown you any in return.

Time for you to play hardball and let everyone from friends to family know just what kind of woman she is.

I would also make copies of everything you have and put it in a safe place where only you have access to.

Above all, don't fall for any type of crying or pleading from her or any excuses. This isn't a one time thing but a pattern of deception that has been going on for years, so it's a bit late for her to plead her case and say she's sorry.

Don't look at her as your wife or the mother of your kids, she's your number one enemy and she's proven it time after time and now she has to pay for her ignorance.


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## Joka

Unique Username said:


> Since you moved to appease her and her career...and you have a struggling business. I would ask for spousal maintenance from her...let her pay alimony.
> 
> And as I said - I would text her to just stay where she is.
> 
> But first, go down and empty your joint bank account. Open a new Bank account in only your own name AT A DIFFERENT BANK.
> If she has you on her insurance through her company - then have that in the divorce decree - she either keeps you on that policy or pays for your insurance elsewhere.
> Since you have proof that she has had affairs with people in the company that she still works, then this is your leverage to get exactly what you want. Including the house or whatever else you want.
> 
> Your local planned parenthood will give you testing for all STDs including HIV - but you have to ask for the HIV test and the Herpes test. Hep C is also something that you would need to ask for testing. If you don't want to go this route...then go to a private doctor and save the bill because you will want her to reimburse you for it and any further follow-up care you may need if anything is positive for said STD.
> 
> Use your emotions here to get smart and get her where it hurts - the pocketbook.
> Also - does she have retirement? Are you not entitled to half of what was gained since you wed?
> You know the drill by now - account for all things financial.
> Know exactly your assets and liabilities - have to have them for court anyway for division of property.
> 
> Might want to get all your financial ducks in a row before you confront her. And when you do confront do so calmly with no facial affect.
> You can use your VAR and GPS discovery as a tool to negotiate exactly what you want out of the marriage financially. OR you disclose to everyone what a wh0re she is...including to the previous VP/bosses spouse, the company, her family etc.
> 
> I wouldn't go all apeshyt like others say and disclose on cheaterville and all the other places. What good does that do? None. BUT you can use your "proof" as leverage for negotiation of what you want.
> 
> Good Luck to you. It sucks.


All good advise.
But, the VAR's are not legal and she does not know that is how I got my info and never will. She is as sharp as a lawyer and when put to the wall would go after me on it. I have heard her say she is scared of what I might know. That is how I found out about an affair long ago when around the time we sere getting married. She said I don't know what he has on me he might even know about my fling with NAME at Company. I did get an HIV and STD test. She is out of town right now. Do I text her or call her and tell her she is being served. I know a lot of people will say screw her and just have the lawyer email over the representation letter but I do not want to be like her.


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## Joka

This chick is ****ed up. She just left me an "I love you" voicemail and text.


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## GusPolinski

Joka said:


> Do I text her or call her and tell her she is being served. I know a lot of people will say screw her and just have the lawyer email over the representation letter but I do not want to be like her.


I wouldn't tell her anything.


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## Joka

Joka said:


> This chick is ****ed up. She just left me an "I love you" voicemail and text.


2 days earlier she was just talking sexual positions with some rich ***** guy on her way home to me


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## harrybrown

Keep one VAR on you, so that she can't claim that you abused her.

Protect yourself. I agree with that you need to expose to her family and to all the POSOM's wives.

get your checking account in order. 

So sorry, that she is such a serial cheater. You need her out of your life. 

Do the 180.


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## ArmyofJuan

Send her this:


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## dogman

Joka said:


> 2 days earlier she was just talking sexual positions with some rich ***** guy on her way home to me



It's totally possible she is rollercoastering between playing with OMs and guilt loving you. She is seriously disturbed and I'd be afraid to sleep in the same house with anyone who can compartmentalize to that degree.


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## Unique Username

VAR is your source. You aren't going to use IT in court
you use it to negotiate exactly what you want from her.
NOT to be used in court - but to be used to expose to her boss, the guy she fvcked's boss (in the same company) his spouse, the spouses or SO of all the people she has shagged over the last 7 years of your marriage.....IF SHE DOESN'T give you what you want.


It is only slander if it weren't true.

As for texting/calling her about being served? You are kidding right?
Don't even have her served until you have all your financial ducks in a row and have your action plan completed...exactly what you want from the marital assets.
Then you have her served.
If that is going to take a little bit of time to get your shyt together, then you would simply do nothing right now except act nonchalant about everything. 
You will need to continue to have STD testing since she is probably fvcking some dude while she is out of town. 

The possibility of exposing is your weapon.
So don't ruin it with exposing anything right now.

Good luck


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## bandit.45

Joka said:


> All good advise.
> But, the VAR's are not legal and she does not know that is how I got my info and never will. She is as sharp as a lawyer and when put to the wall would go after me on it. I have heard her say she is scared of what I might know. That is how I found out about an affair long ago when around the time we sere getting married. She said I don't know what he has on me he might even know about my fling with NAME at Company. I did get an HIV and STD test. She is out of town right now. Do I text her or call her and tell her she is being served. I know a lot of people will say screw her and just have the lawyer email over the representation letter but I do not want to be like her.


VARs are not illegal. They are only inadmissable in court as evidence. You won't be having spooks raiding your house just because you recorded your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper

HubbyDaddy2013 said:


> (Every married man I know over age 30 has had their wife cheat on them...It is sad).


I have seen the same thing.

I know loyal women exist, I have heard about them on the internet. Still, the odds aren't in any mans favor these days. 

For those who want to call me a bitter misogynist, save it. Anger is a legitimate emotion when faced with injustice.

OP, you need to get with your attorney and see how this will play out. I would be tempted to expose to everyone and then just walk away. Move back where you were from. Once her other men find out that they will have to start paying for the privilege of getting their d*cks wet, they will move on.

She is an over fifty, serial adulteress. Lets see how many of these thugs want to buy the cow for the cream.


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## Pamvhv

Ripper said:


> I have seen the same thing.
> 
> I know loyal women exist, I have heard about them on the internet. Still, the odds aren't in any mans favor these days.
> 
> For those who want to call me a bitter misogynist, save it. Anger is a legitimate emotion when faced with injustice.
> 
> OP, you need to get with your attorney and see how this will play out. I would be tempted to expose to everyone and then just walk away. Move back where you were from. Once her other men find out that they will have to start paying for the privilege of getting their d*cks wet, they will move on.
> 
> She is an over fifty, serial adulteress. Lets see how many of these thugs want to buy the cow for the cream.


I'm 34 and my husband is 40 and I've never cheated on him.


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## aug

Make sure you have copies of your recording (and other evidence) away from the house. Make backups.


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## Squeakr

bandit.45 said:


> *VARs are not illegal. They are only inadmissable in court as evidence. * You won't be having spooks raiding your house just because you recorded your wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Generally you won't get charged in their illegal usage, but they can be illegal if used in the wrong way, such as planting like he did, as it is a violation of survellience and wire tapping laws and in the right instance they can be admissible in court. Most won't get anything out of their illegal usage, but if the party is vindictive enough and can find the right people it could result in charges, so watch yourself with revealing their usage as proof ( it is unlikely but has happened in the past).


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## Machiavelli

Squeakr said:


> Generally you won't get charged in their illegal usage, but they can be illegal if used in the wrong way, such as planting like he did, as it is a violation of survellience and wire tapping laws and in the right instance they can be admissible in court. Most won't get anything out of their illegal usage, but if the party is vindictive enough and can find the right people it could result in charges, so watch yourself with revealing their usage as proof ( it is unlikely but has happened in the past).


I know of one case in Wayne County, MI for key logging, but that was dropped. Do you know of another involving a domestic case on a VAR?


----------



## bandit.45

Squeakr said:


> Generally you won't get charged in their illegal usage, but they can be illegal if used in the wrong way, such as planting like he did, as it is a violation of survellience and wire tapping laws and in the right instance they can be admissible in court. Most won't get anything out of their illegal usage, but if the party is vindictive enough and can find the right people it could result in charges, so watch yourself with revealing their usage as proof ( it is unlikely but has happened in the past).


There is not a Federal officer in this country who would waste government time and money pursuing such charges. He would listen to the wife's complaint and ask her if her husband was trying to extort money from her or blackmail her in any way. She would say no and then he would say " have a nice day."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

bandit.45 said:


> There is not a Federal officer in this country who would waste government time and money pursuing such charges. He would listen to the wife's complaint and ask her if her husband was trying to extort money from her or blackmail her in any way. She would say no and then he would say " have a nice day."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes but it is not only Federal. It is state as well, and those up for re-election in certain religious driven states will go to extremes to prove things to the rest of society (ahem*cough...North and South Carolina...cough*ahem). I am not saying it would happen (as I stated several times that more than likely nothing would come of it). I just hate when people quote things that are not true. It is illegal and you could be prosecuted for it. Most won't but someone has to be the first. Also using as a bargaining chip is blackmail, and if money is involved that is extortion also (at leafs by the definitions as they stand).

The Feds are currently going nuts over cell phone jammers, going so far as to pursue and arrest people listing them on Craig's list for sale, and this is not only dealers but the one off sellers. They are illegal to import into the US unless you have permission to use (such as a federal authority). This is something new and never mattered in the past, but with new legislation in the last 2 years things are a whole new ball game, so don't say it can't or won't happen as no one knows what will happen in the future, especially since Snowden.

I just wanted the correct information released. If you would like to continue to spread falsehoods about it not being illegal, just because someone might not have been charged yet, continue on then as the rte is always someone to be the first.


----------



## Fenix

Ripper said:


> For those who want to call me a bitter misogynist, save it. Anger is a legitimate emotion when faced with injustice.


I have another word for people like you. Anger *is* appropriate. However, extrapolating a set of events to an entire gender is not. Especially when the data shows you that you are dead wrong and if there is a cheating sex, it is the male. But hey, revel in your misery and see how that works for you.


Joka, you are not like your wife. Have her served, do not communicate with her and protect yourself first and foremost. Get tested ASAP and also, call a therapist to help you process the betrayal. As far as her voice mails and texts go, she may very well think she loves you, but who cares? Her actions say otherwise and she has severely disrespected you and the relationship.


----------



## Squeakr

Machiavelli said:


> I know of one case in Wayne County, MI for key logging, but that was dropped. Do you know of another involving a domestic case on a VAR?


Don't know of any for a VAR, and said so. Can't figure out why when I correctly state the legality as per the law, everyone comes out in droves asking for proof. Just as not everyone gets caught for speeding, it is the same as telling someone that it is okay to go 5 over the limit as the officers give you a leeway to allow it. When someone gets caught, we all say well you saw the signs and were warned, so what is wrong with correcting a misnomer regarding VARs (yes you will probably get away with it) as that activity is against the law.

Here is a case in NC where the individual was fined $24,500: Former sheriff’s deputy used computer software to spy on ex-wife | North Carolina Lawyers Weekly
(yes he was a former sheriff's deputy, I state this for those that will come back as he is different because of this), but it shows that these things are starting and becoming precedent for future cases. Someone always has to be the first.


----------



## Thorburn

VAR - in Pennsylvania we are a "one party State", which means if the person is recording a conversation and is present it is legal. If you place a VAR in your wife's car it is illegal if you are not present.

When my wife heard the conversation on the VAR as I played it to her, she said that was illegal. I said nothing. If her attorney would had made an issue of it, then it more than likely would have been admitted as court evidence in the D. So for my wife it would have been a losing battle. Proved that I illegally recorded her having sex, but now having the recording exposed in court.

Bottom line it is typically illegal, but most courts will not care.

What I would do is expose this affair to the OM's wife if he is married and see how your wife reacts from another town.


----------



## bandit.45

Squeakr said:


> Yes but it is not only Federal. It is state as well. I am not saying it would happen (as I stated several times that more than likely nothing would come of it). I just hate when people quote things that are not true. It is illegal and you could be prosecuted for it. Most won't but someone has to be the first.
> 
> The Feds are currently going nuts over cell phone jammers, going so far as to pursue and arrest people listing them on Craig's list for sale, and this is not only dealers but the one off sellers. They are illegal to import into the US unless you have permission to use (such as a federal authority). This is something new and never mattered in the past, but with new legislation in the last 2 years things are a whole new ball game, so don't say it can't or won't happen as no one knows what will happen in the future, especially since Snowden.
> 
> I just wanted the correct information released. If you would like to continue to spread falsehoods about it not being illegal, just because someone might not have been charged yet, continue on then as the rte is always someone to be the first.


Adultery is still illegal in some states. 

Homosexuality (sodomy) is still illegal in some states. 

A black man drinking at a public fountain is still illegal in some states. 

It does not mean the officers of those states are going to waste money prosecuting a man who put a VAR in HIS car, to record his wife talking about her wh0rish antics. He's not making any money off her; he's not using the recordings to extort money or favors from her. 

State, local or municiple authorities will not waste their time and resources prosecuting him. 

Wiretapping, internet spying and cell phone probing are all involving PUBLIC domain and public airwaves. That is why the Feds are so gung-ho on busting such operations. 

I'm not a lawyer, but I do know the criminal justice system a bit, and I do know that if she tried to have him arrested it would not fly. He would get off with a slap on the wrist and a warning, nothing more.


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## Thorburn

Squeakr said:


> Don't know of any for a VAR, and said so. Can't figure out why when I correctly state the legality as per the law, everyone comes out in droves asking for proof. Just as not everyone gets caught for speeding, it is the same as telling someone that it is okay to go 5 over the limit as the officers give you a leeway to allow it. When someone gets caught, we all say well you saw the signs and were warned, so what is wrong with correcting a misnomer regarding VARs (yes you will probably get away with it) as that activity is against the law.
> 
> Here is a case in NC where the individual was fined $24,500: Former sheriff’s deputy used computer software to spy on ex-wife | North Carolina Lawyers Weekly
> (yes he was a former sheriff's deputy, I state this for those that will come back as he is different because of this), but it shows that these things are starting and becoming precedent for future cases. Someone always has to be the first.


Affaircare will sometimes show the law regarding VAR's.

I agree with you in putting out this information and to know that there are legal risks out there for things that we suggest.

The same thing when it is suggested that you throw the WS's stuff out on the lawn and change the locks to the house. It can be done, but you can't legally (in most cases) kick your spouse out of the house.


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## Squeakr

bandit.45 said:


> Adultery is still illegal in some states.
> 
> Homosexuality (sodomy) is still illegal in some states.
> 
> A black man drinking at a public fountain is still illegal in some states.
> 
> It does not mean the officers of those states are going to waste money prosecuting a man who put a VAR in HIS car, to record his wife talking about her wh0rish antics. He's not making any money off her; he's not using the recordings to extort money or favors from her.
> 
> State, local or municiple authorities will not waste their time and resources prosecuting him.
> 
> Wiretapping, internet spying and cell phone probing are all involving PUBLIC domain and public airwaves. That is why the Feds are so gung-ho on busting such operations.
> 
> I'm not a lawyer, but I do know the criminal justice system a bit, and I do know that if she tried to have him arrested it would not fly. *He would get off with a slap on the wrist and a warning, nothing more.*


Yes but it would be on his record and he would need to expend finances to fight i, so it would be a larger loss.

You can find fault with my post all day long if you want and negate them until your fingers are sore from the typing, but the truth is (whether prosecuted or not) does not make it *LEGAL*. There is no defense to that for which you can come up with to prove otherwise, and that is what I have been saying and implying from the start. Stop being so dense that you can't see the forest for the trees (as no matter how many times I state that nothing will probably happen and agree with you regarding prosecution) it is still *ILLEGAL* and something could come of it (albeit a low probability, none the less it still exists).

Just pointing out that your statement/ claim was wrong. Continue to argue semantic about prosecuting it or not, but this doesn't change the legality of it. I am through with this threadjack (even though it has never been prosecuted find me a lawyer that will advise their client that it is okay to secretly tape someone else because it will never be prosecuted).


----------



## bandit.45

Squeakr said:


> Don't know of any for a VAR, and said so. Can't figure out why when I correctly state the legality as per the law, everyone comes out in droves asking for proof. Just as not everyone gets caught for speeding, it is the same as telling someone that it is okay to go 5 over the limit as the officers give you a leeway to allow it. When someone gets caught, we all say well you saw the signs and were warned, so what is wrong with correcting a misnomer regarding VARs (yes you will probably get away with it) as that activity is against the law.
> 
> Here is a case in NC where the individual was fined $24,500: Former sheriff’s deputy used computer software to spy on ex-wife | North Carolina Lawyers Weekly
> (yes he was a former sheriff's deputy, I state this for those that will come back as he is different because of this), but it shows that these things are starting and becoming precedent for future cases. Someone always has to be the first.


Your argument is misplaced in this instance.

It is illegal to use NCIC, Triple I, Interpol, or any PUBLICLY shared law enforcement software or online systems to do personal or private background checks without a license for PERSONAL reasons. These checks almost always have to include use in a criminal investigation, judicial hearings, or for law enforcement employment background checks. 

What the OP is doing has nothing whatsoever to do with this. 

What if he installed a CCTV camera in the car, as a theft deterrent device, and caught his wife banging another guy in the car on lunch break? She would have to prove he put that camera in there dliberately to catch her, just as she would have to prove he put the VAR or a GPS in the car to deliberately catch her. If I were his lawyer I could pick it apart to where the judge would dismiss it without a second thought.


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## Squeakr

bandit.45 said:


> Your argument is misplaced in this instance.
> 
> It is illegal to use NCIC, Triple I, Interpol, or any PUBLICLY shared law enforcement software or online systems to do personal or private background checks without a license for PERSONAL reasons. These checks almost always have to include use in a criminal investigation, judicial hearings, or for law enforcement employment background checks.


The guy found guilty and fined in the article had nothing to do with any of that either. The headlines are misleading as he didn't use law enforcement techniques or special software, just placed spyware on his soon to be ex-wife's personal laptop.

He was already off of the force when this all occurred, It was his soon to be ex-wives computer (which in NC you have to be separated by physically living in different residences for 1 year before you can petition for D). He place the software on her computer and she filed complaint which the state prosecuted. Many think he only received the harsh punishment and publicity because he was a former law enforcement official (but could never prove that was the intent behind the verdict) so that is why the title reads that way. Just like when a former Marine kills someone, doesn't matter if they were out of the service for 1 day or 25 years, the title of such articles generally read "Former Marine kills victim", as people think with their training that they should be held to some different public standard.


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## 3putt

Squeakr said:


> The guy found guilty and fined in the article had nothing to do with any of that either. The headlines are misleading as he didn't use law enforcement techniques or special software, just placed spyware on his soon to be ex-wife's personal laptop.
> 
> He was already off of the force when this all occurred, It was his soon to be ex-wives computer (which in NC you have to be separated by physically living in different residences for 1 year before you can petition for D). He place the software on her computer and she filed complaint which the state prosecuted. Many think he only received the harsh punishment and publicity because he was a former law enforcement official (but could never prove that was the intent behind the verdict) so that is why the title reads that way. Just like when a former Marine kills someone, doesn't matter if they were out of the service for 1 day or 25 years, the title of such articles generally read "Former Marine kills victim", as people think with their training that they should be held to some different public standard.


Do you have any other citations for this case? What you linked isn't much of anything other than one sentence about the verdict.


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## Squeakr

3putt said:


> Do you have any other citations for this case? What you linked isn't much of anything other than one sentence about the verdict.


I have posted other links on here in various threads as people always seem to be asking for these proofs, but at work at the moment and that was the quickest one I could find at the moment). It is a newer case and I think it is still in the system, be appealed last I heard.

There is a little more here (at the bottom of the page) and about how you can be charged in the state of NC, although lots of this will also apply in other states as well: http://www.rosen.com/childcustody/carticles/think-twice-snoop-cell-phone-spyware/


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## phillybeffandswiss

Joka said:


> In hind site around March is when I was emotionally able to handle a divorce and should have pulled the trigger then. I kept getting info though and discovering how deep and long lasting this was. there is no way she will ever admit to any of it.
> Maybe ignorance is bliss but I needed to know even though I new it would be more painful.
> that's most of my story
> 
> BS 57
> WW52
> 2 step kids in college.
> 2 my kids older
> Sad 8-(


People move at different rates, if you needed a few months to handle it don't feel bad.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Squeakr said:


> Can't figure out why when I correctly state the legality as per the law, everyone comes out in droves asking for proof.


It's because people use logical fallacies and pretend to be lawyers when most of us are not. You are using your interpretation, as many of us do, to cast a wide net and drag it towards your point.


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## owl6118

3putt said:


> Do you have any other citations for this case? What you linked isn't much of anything other than one sentence about the verdict.


Can't find the citation, but it was a civil suit, not a criminal prosecution. But the point that most VAR use is illegal is broadly correct.

Here is a good discussion.

Spousal Spying: Wiretapping, Recording, Email Interception and GPS Tracking - North Carolina Divorce Law NC Divorce Lawyer Raleigh Charlotte


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## Squeakr

phillybeffandswiss said:


> It's because people use logical fallacies and pretend to be lawyers when most of us are not. You are using your interpretation, as many of us do, to cast a wide net and drag it towards your point.


I guess, but it seems akin to arguing that the speed limits don't apply to you, as you always go 5-10 over and never get caught therefor going 5-10 over is not against the law.


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## BobSimmons

For heavens sake y'all arguing amongst yourselves. Give the man some advice and leave your petty squabbles out of it.

My two cents?

Pack her things put them in the garage. Change the locks *might not be totally legal, but leave as an option*

Since you gave the full story, I'd yank the VARS and serve her with the quickness. No doubt she'll be shocked and try anything to backtrack but you seem to have given her enough chances.

Just the disease factor with so many men should make you run.


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## 3putt

Squeakr said:


> I have posted other links on here in various threads as people always seem to be asking for these proofs, but at work at the moment and that was the quickest one I could find at the moment). It is a newer case and I think it is still in the system, be appealed last I heard.
> 
> There is a little more here (at the bottom of the page) and about how you can be charged in the state of NC, although lots of this will also apply in other states as well: Spousal Spying: Wiretapping, Recording, Email Interception and GPS Tracking - North Carolina Divorce Law NC Divorce Lawyer Raleigh Charlotte


The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if she was his ex at the time he installed the keylogger, as it implies in the headline (but hardly clear). Or if they weren't living together at the time.

Those two things would make a big difference is what's being discussed here.


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## Squeakr

3putt said:


> The reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if she was his ex at the time he installed the keylogger, as it implies in the headline (but hardly clear). Or if they weren't living together at the time.
> 
> Those two things would make a big difference is what's being discussed here.


I see your line of questioning but acceding to the way the law reads it wouldn't matter as long as it was agreed upon that it was her computer. Unless there is an agreement that it is a communal computer then it is still illegal. I haven't heard the specifics but bet the case is public record and could be researched, and within NC to get D, you have to live apart (separate residences) for 1 year and 1 day before you can petition for D, and the separation agreement makes you technically both as you are single (but the marriage is still active within the law, meaning you can date and have sex without repercussions or charges of infidelity, adultery, criminal conversation, or alienation of affection, all still valid in NC). I really don't have that specific answer.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Squeakr said:


> I guess, but it seems akin to arguing that the speed limits don't apply to you, as you always go 5-10 over and never get caught therefor going 5-10 over is not against the law.


We disagree, but we will go in circles. No, it isn't the same and it would be a derail to explain why.


BobSimmons said:


> For heavens sake y'all arguing amongst yourselves. Give the man some advice and leave your petty squabbles out of it..


[email protected]


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## X-B

I know that it was illegal but I didn't care. if she wanted to try to get me prosecuted the recordings would have to be admitted as evidence against me. The recordings would then be public record and anyone could file a request for a copy. I asked a lawyer that question.(after the fact)
I am a believer that when you have heard enough to know what is going on, STOP listening. You can't unhear what you have heard. Get someone else to listen if you need anything like names.


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## 3putt

Squeakr said:


> *I see your line of questioning but acceding to the way the law reads it wouldn't matter as long as it was agreed upon that it was her computer. Unless there is an agreement that it is a communal computer then it is still illegal.* I haven't heard the specifics but bet the case is public record and could be researched, and within NC to get D, you have to live apart (separate residences) for 1 year and 1 day before you can petition for D, and the separation agreement makes you technically both as you are single (but the marriage is still active within the law, meaning you can date and have sex without repercussions or charges of infidelity, adultery, criminal conversation, or alienation of affection, all still valid in NC). I really don't have that specific answer.


I beg to differ, as this is what brought the case that Mach referenced to it's knees (if memory serves). Computers in a marital home are typically implied communal property, and I don't think any prosecutor worth his/her salt would risk the embarrassment that the Michigan DA subjected herself to to push this. There's got to be more to this.

I would have to see an awful lot more to change my stance on it.


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## Ripper

Fenix said:


> I have another word for people like you. Anger *is* appropriate. However, extrapolating a set of events to an entire gender is not. Especially when the data shows you that you are dead wrong and if there is a cheating sex, it is the male. But hey, revel in your misery and see how that works for you.


Far from miserable, but thanks for irony and projection.


----------



## Squeakr

3putt said:


> I beg to differ, as this is what brought the case that Mach referenced to it's knees (if memory serves). Computers in a marital home are typically implied communal property, and I don't think any prosecutor worth his/her salt would risk the embarrassment that the Michigan DA subjected herself to to push this. There's got to be more to this.
> 
> I would have to see an awful lot more to change my stance on it.


In this case it was related to email as well. There is some very strange dealings with emails as they are considered communications and intercepting is a federal violation as well as some other strange things due in part to the international aspect of email and commerce. It is very strange, I have read it a few times and it is very hard to interpret and comprehend fully which is why I think lots of cases are dismissed due to the way the interception takes place (a cloud copy stored on a company owned sever and interception versus a locally stored copy of the same email, one being legal the other not). Not a lawyer just an IT tech so not fully versed in the legal interpretations (as acre most lawyers from my reading with it being a relatively new concept).


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## bandit.45

LnghrnFan said:


> I'm so very sorry that you're going through this  Just curious though - did the two of you ever go to marriage counseling when you found out about previous affairs? It might have really helped for the two of you to work through the issues that let up to this. I know you're hurt...maybe going to see a counselor on your own (if marriage counseling is out of the question) would be a good idea. A trained therapist may be able to help you find healing in your own life. Good luck!


Most MCs are not equipped to deal with so- called sex addicts such as his wife seems to be. Couples counseling would be worthless. He needs IC to figure out why his picker is off and why he has tolerated this treatment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Forest

Ripper said:


> I have seen the same thing.
> 
> I know loyal women exist, I have heard about them on the internet. Still, the odds aren't in any mans favor these days.
> 
> For those who want to call me a bitter misogynist, save it. Anger is a legitimate emotion when faced with injustice.



I'll assume the same risk, and add that currently it seems many spouses honor their vows only to the extent the other works a 9-5 job, home every weekend, and rains down an endless stream of wife-bait. Wife-bait = attention, compliments.

Make no mistake. Attention and compliments trump all other things, even if you are a lazy, two faced jackbutt.


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## Forest

Oh, and on that case of the wire-tapping. I'd be willing to bet the whole problem arose because the ex-deputy made the critical mistake of being honest. A problem for a lot of non cheaters.

As I've said before, if you simply refuse to talk about things like VARs, spyware, etc, there's a snowball's chance you'll get into any trouble.


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## Headspin

Ripper said:


> ..........
> I know loyal women exist, I have heard about them on the internet............


:rofl: Fking brilliant


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## treyvion

Joka said:


> I can not believe I am hearing a recording of my wife talking sex with another guy. It seems I have been married to a ***** for 7 years.


Joka,

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. At least you have conclusive explanation for any smoke screening and gaslighting you have experienced over the years.

Your done. You won't unravel several years of lieing, cheating in a day a week or even a year. Is it worth it to you?

Like I said you might be done, and like another said, tell her don't bother coming back, that you will happily take move her stuff to a friend or family members of hers.

Have the divorce decree drawn up. Have her served and cut off all contact and communication with her and anyone who supports her cheating, get on with your life.

It helps if you get your c0ck "wet" and around friendly females as quickly as possible. It gets you moving forward.


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> Most MCs are not equipped to deal with so- called sex addicts such as his wife seems to be. Couples counseling would be worthless. He needs IC to figure out why his picker is off and why he has tolerated this treatment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We went to marriage counseling when I knew she was cheating with the last one but just before I had concrete proof. I thought at the time it was the only one. When it was her turn to do an individual she had the counselor convinced I was having an affair. the counselor made comments that she thought my ww was wonderful and wanted to be like her. The Chump Lady had an article about nice and kind. My ww is extremely nice but in the kind department she will only give you the time of day if she can get something.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> Joka,
> 
> Sorry to hear of your misfortune. At least you have conclusive explanation for any smoke screening and gaslighting you have experienced over the years.
> 
> Your done. You won't unravel several years of lieing, cheating in a day a week or even a year. Is it worth it to you?
> 
> Like I said you might be done, and like another said, tell her don't bother coming back, that you will happily take move her stuff to a friend or family members of hers.
> 
> Have the divorce decree drawn up. Have her served and cut off all contact and communication with her and anyone who supports her cheating, get on with your life.
> 
> It helps if you get your c0ck "wet" and around friendly females as quickly as possible. It gets you moving forward.


The last paragraph always helps in times like this. I wish I had a friend with benefits


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## treyvion

Joka said:


> The last paragraph always helps in times like this. I wish I had a friend with benefits


Thanks for cosign how important this is
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Joka said:


> We went to marriage counseling when I knew she was cheating with the last one but just before I had concrete proof. I thought at the time it was the only one. When it was her turn to do an individual she had the counselor convinced I was having an affair. the counselor made comments that she thought my ww was wonderful and wanted to be like her. The Chump Lady had an article about nice and kind. My ww is extremely nice but in the kind department she will only give you the time of day if she can get something.


She sounds like so many of the narcissistic attention junkies we see parading through TAM. You know you will never get this woman to change Joka. She has no respect for herself and less for everyone else including you. A completely toxic and amoral person. 

This should steel your resolve to do what needs done. 

When does she return from her trip. Have you talked to her at all since the discovery ? Or will you wait to confront her when she gets home?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

If it was me I would go dark, don't tell her she is getting served...hell don't tell her any thing . Really what do you have to say to an old lady that has had her chance and phucking blow it? 

I say you keep blowing smoke up her @ss and blindside her with the divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

OP could verbally confront his WW with everything he heard on the VAR...h**l he could even tell her to shut her pie hole when she starts denying cause he has heard the recordings.

If he only uses it to shut her up while informing her of his filing for D, and it is never mentioned in his filing or any other paperwork, how in the h**l would she ever prove any of it if he got rid of the evidence.

She could whine all she wanted to the cops, if there was no evidence then there is no case,

If the VAR was just for his own peace of mind and the ability to be able to tell her directly she is a disgusting cheat he is happy to be ridding himself of, then there will be no legal ramifications at all.

Even if she complains, and the cops questioned him, all he would need to do is clam up...the 5th Amendment is basically just telling the government if they want to charge you with something then 'prove it'...and you don't have to say a word to them to help them at all...and if they can't find any evidence, there is no case.


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## Mr Blunt

Joka

Ask your attorney how best to use everything you have, including the recordings, to get legal papers in your favor.

I know that your emotions are running wild but the only thing that you can salvage now is legal papers in your favor. Get all the help that you can with your emotions but do not let the emotions damage your chances with legal papers in your favor.

If you do it right then in a year or two you will be totally focused on your home, financial situation and your children. I know that you are very concerned about your emotions that relate to her but you have a lot more years left and the long range plan will be all that matters the most in a year or two.


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## aug

or, when he confronts intelligently, record it. she's bound to admit to some form of an affair.


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## Joka

About an hour ago I emailed my attorney to send the letter of representation to my ww. I texted the ww, (she is out of town), that this letter will be emailed to her. I then emailed my attorney again to let me know when as soon as it is sent. I am getting barraged with text messages and phone calls from ww. I am done with her promiscuous lifestyle. She is texting me all these messages of "why", "how come", " I have to go to the hospital my chest hurts". I can relate!
I wish the lawyer would hurry up and send that stinkin letter.


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## GusPolinski

Joka said:


> About an hour ago I emailed my attorney to send the letter of representation to my ww. I texted the ww, (she is out of town), that this letter will be emailed to her. I then emailed my attorney again to let me know when as soon as it is sent. I am getting barraged with text messages and phone calls from ww. I am done with her promiscuous lifestyle. She is texting me all these messages of "why", "how come", " I have to go to the hospital my chest hurts". I can relate!
> I wish the lawyer would hurry up and send that stinkin letter.


Does (or will) the letter include any sort of reference to infidelity? If so, she'll figure it out soon enough. When is she due back at home?


----------



## jerry123

Just text back..."you know why". Leave it at that. No good will come from continued texting. 

The part where she says about being a sex addict and that's news to you is the nail in coffin for your marriage. Just imagine the possible std's that she could get. 

Let the lawyer do all the work. 

Go dark and see a Dr. if you need to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

Gus, she is do back tomorrow night. I am supposed to pick her up at airport.

I am going to go 180 on this. She is a drama queen to the max. No texting or calls. 

The lawyer sent the letter out about a half hour ago. The barrage of calls and texts has stopped


----------



## 6301

Joka said:


> She is texting me all these messages of "why", "how come", " I have to go to the hospital my chest hurts".


 Text her back and let her know that you can certainly understand why her chest hurts. No doubt from all the guys that have been laying on top of her. Tell her to buy chest protector so all the poundings she's taking doesn't leave bruises.


----------



## Thorburn

If you are doing the 180 then let her figure out how to get home from the airport. I would go dark on her and I mean completely.

You will need a plan for when the drama queen comes home. I would put all her stuff in another room to include her pillow.

How are you going to react when she is in the house?
Are you going to engage her?

You need aplan.


----------



## HubbyDaddy2013

Yeah, she can take a taxi home or call someone else. Go strong on the 180!


----------



## bandit.45

6301 said:


> Text her back and let her know that you can certainly understand why her chest hurts. No doubt from all the guys that have been laying on top of her. Tell her to buy chest protector so all the poundings she's taking doesn't leave bruises.


Probably not the best thing to be telling Joka right now. He's triggering and hurting bad enough as it is. No need to fuel the mind movies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Are you staying in the same home while doing the 180?


----------



## bandit.45

Text her and tell her to call a friend to pick her up or a taxi. You and her are no longer family. All the marital perks have been suspended.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mahike

Thorburn said:


> If you are doing the 180 then let her figure out how to get home from the airport. I would go dark on her and I mean completely.
> 
> You will need a plan for when the drama queen comes home. I would put all her stuff in another room to include her pillow.
> 
> How are you going to react when she is in the house?
> Are you going to engage her?
> 
> You need aplan.


I agree you need a plan. I am really worried about you being in the same house with her. If there is any face time between the two of you make sure you have the VAR. Do your best and stay cool


----------



## 6301

Maybe I shouldn't have been so flippant with my last comment Joka. Sorry for that.

Honestly, if it was me, there would be no reason to even talk to her about her infidelity. Especially when she starts with the excuses. You know what she did and what kind of person she is and she knows too. 

IMO if there's any way you can avoid seeing her you might be better off. There isn't anything else that needs to be discussed with her and I agree that you should go real dark. Let her find her own way home and a good idea if you have to stay is make sure you have someone with you when she comes home and if you still have the VAR's carry it with you for your own protection.

Right now she's cornered and when someone is in that position they can do anything out of desperation so be careful.


----------



## Joka

turnera said:


> Are you staying in the same home while doing the 180?


Yes, this is going to be a challenge but I am going to keep focusing on the end result, my peace of mind when it is over.


----------



## GusPolinski

Thorburn said:


> If you are doing the 180 then let her figure out how to get home from the airport. I would go dark on her and I mean completely.
> 
> You will need a plan for when the drama queen comes home. I would put all her stuff in another room to include her pillow.
> 
> How are you going to react when she is in the house?
> Are you going to engage her?
> 
> You need aplan.


:iagree: w/ *all* of ^this.


----------



## Joka

6301 said:


> Maybe I shouldn't have been so flippant with my last comment Joka. Sorry for that.
> 
> Honestly, if it was me, there would be no reason to even talk to her about her infidelity. Especially when she starts with the excuses. You know what she did and what kind of person she is and she knows too.
> 
> IMO if there's any way you can avoid seeing her you might be better off. There isn't anything else that needs to be discussed with her and I agree that you should go real dark. Let her find her own way home and a good idea if you have to stay is make sure you have someone with you when she comes home and if you still have the VAR's carry it with you for your own protection.
> 
> Right now she's cornered and when someone is in that position they can do anything out of desperation so be careful.


Thanks for the apology. 
You are absolutely correct in that there is no reason to bring up all that I know. She will just deny and lie. I will never let her know what I know and it will drive her crazy. My goal is to keep the situation as calm as possible but her goal is to make as much noise and calamity as she can. It has only been a couple of hours and she has called both my kids which are out of state and have families of there own. They know the deal.


----------



## bandit.45

Did you already tell your kids what you found out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Unique Username

No young children in the house - they have none together

HERS are in College 

His are grown and living on their own

Get your financial ducks in a row - do all those things I mentioned.

Be civil to her and disclose nothing until YOU are ready

what's she gonna do about it, have an affair? she already has. You have nothing to lose and only good things to gain. 
Just smile and remember - in the end YOU WIN!!


----------



## harrybrown

Can she stay somewhere else until the D is final?

or can you? I do like the VAR on you to protect you from abuse claims.


----------



## Regret214

MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> Excuse me off-topic but did you kiss both men on the same day and kiss your husband possibly after oral sex with OM?


Not that I need to reply as it takes away from the OP's issues, but what do you think? Why does it matter? Are you going to read some kind of cuckold take on the issue or that I got some kind of thrill out of it?

Yes. I had oral sex and vaginal sex with the xOM prior to coming home. I purposely kissed Dig on the cheek those nights. Yeah, I was a moron for what I did. Anything else you'd like to bring up, ask me in one of MY threads so you don't dilute someone else's.


----------



## Joka

Regret214 said:


> Not that I need to reply as it takes away from the OP's issues, but what do you think? Why does it matter? Are you going to read some kind of cuckold take on the issue or that I got some kind of thrill out of it?
> 
> Yes. I had oral sex and vaginal sex with the xOM prior to coming home. I purposely kissed Dig on the cheek those nights. Yeah, I was a moron for what I did. Anything else you'd like to bring up, ask me in one of MY threads so you don't dilute someone else's.


A little sensitivity would go along way here


----------



## bandit.45

Joka are you at work, or did you take some time off? It would help if you arranged a safe place to go tonight of things go south with the confrontation with your wif.e


----------



## turnera

Joka said:


> Yes, this is going to be a challenge but I am going to keep focusing on the end result, my peace of mind when it is over.


Why? Surely, with no kids in the house and your age, you're capable of moving somewhere else?


----------



## Unique Username

If you want the house, then I certainly would recommend against leaving. If you aren't ready to serve her, then you aren't ready to disclose what you know. If this is the case, then cold-shoulder but mostly act like nothing is wrong. You are biding time to get what you need done FIRST.
You said she is as smart as a lawyer, YOU have the upper hand in that you can serve WHEN YOU ARE READY....WHEN you have all your financial decisions, all the division of property AS YOU WANT IT taken care of.

So, be smart and weed through the posts here. Use those that are actually useful to the positive outcome you desire.

Don't let the silly arguing that ensued yesterday cloud anything.

Be mart, be stealthful .....the best revenge is living well

to do that, you plan it all out and get a good lawyer who will follow YOUR orders. You don't lay your cards on the table, you don't play them all at once.


----------



## Unique Username

turnera said:


> Why? Surely, with no kids in the house and your age, you're capable of moving somewhere else?


He may want to keep the house. 
After all, she has sacrificed nothing in the move.

His best offense is to be nonchalant and concentrate on financial planning and preparation for the divorce.


----------



## Regret214

Joka said:


> A little sensitivity would go along way here


Hence I hesitated responding to the question. If you triggered on that, my apologies. However, this stuff doesn't just go away. If you stay here on TAM for any length of time you are going to see much, much worse in others stories.

Your wife is lying to you. Just as I lied. Listen to these people and heed their advice. That's all I can say at this stage. I gave you my response in my first post to you.


----------



## Unique Username

Aha so Joka has already let the cat out of the bag.

Well good luck.

I was giving you advice that you should really, really think about.

I didn't have any of this - I speak from experience. And gave advice that I wish I had been given.


----------



## turnera

The house will be decided by a judge just like everything else they own. It has nothing to do with who is squatting in it.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Joka said:


> The last paragraph always helps in times like this. I wish I had a friend with benefits


I went through a break up just after high school. Was painful! 

Had sex with a bunch of girls afterwards. I guess it helped (while having sex), but as soon as I was alone afterwards, the pain came back.


----------



## Unique Username

Well, that isn't exactly true.

It isn't a complete equal division of property. 
He has choices.
He can use the leverage of exposing to her business colleagues and their spouses...the doctor and his spouse and their community etc.
if she doesn't follow what he wants.

Judge didn't decide a gd thing in my divorce. 
We agreed to how the property was split up.
We agreed that I would have sole physical and legal custody of our child etc etc

Squatting? It's his own house, how is that squatting?

She is the cheat, not him.....I'm giving advice to a betrayed spouse who chooses to divorce. I don't care what gender, my advice is the same.
No under-age children....much easier.

I don't want to get into any silly arguments or discussions with others.

Anyway - Good Luck. I'll check in from time to time and see if there is anything useful I can add.
Or you can PM me if you want Joka.


----------



## treyvion

Im confident you should be done and theres nothing left to discuss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

Unique Username said:


> He may want to keep the house.
> After all, she has sacrificed nothing in the move.
> 
> His best offense is to be nonchalant and concentrate on financial planning and preparation for the divorce.


That's what I'm talking about.
She got the representation letter this morning. Lawyer says stay put. I can do the 180 with the best of them. The challenge part is tomorrow night when she gets home.
It can never go back. After being paralyzed for almost 5 months trying to get my head wrapped around what has transpired the last piece to the puzzle pushed me to make it happen. All the face to face I love you's and nice talk just went completely meaningless after what I heard.


----------



## Unique Username

If you have a 2nd bedroom. Move all her stuff there or the guest room.

Put a lock on your bedroom door. Since she isn't home, I would be going through all of her things all the drawers and boxes and anything.
See what she has stashed here and there. Garage too. You will probably be really surprised at what you find.

Plus - that'll give you something to do.

Anything that is yours that you don't want her to have access to, either get a safety deposit box...or at the very least put it in your locked bedroom that only you have the key.


Have you opened that new bank account at a completely different bank? 

If you open at same bank and she were to overdraft on the old/joint account they can take from your sole account without even telling you about it....hence why I say NEW account NEW bank.
Don't tell her about any of this.

Poker face - don't give away any of your ammo/resources.


----------



## Q tip

How about she can find her own way home from the airport...


----------



## Squeakr

Unique Username said:


> Have you opened that new bank account at a completely different bank?
> 
> If you open at same bank and she were to overdraft on the old/joint account they can take from your sole account without even telling you about it....hence why I say NEW account NEW bank.


They shouldn't be able to unless he has authorized overdraft protection and specifically from that account, according to FDIC banking guidelines. If they take from one account and give to another then they are doing something wrong.


----------



## Ripper

Stay dark as long as you can. Let her find her own ride from the airport. 

Carry the VAR with you. If she wants to create drama, she will. It might keep you out of a set of matching silver bracelets. I would even go as far as suggesting video recording any future encounters if its feasible.

As far as the divorce, are you looking to get a fair division of assets and moving back closer to family?


----------



## Unique Username

Squeakr said:


> They shouldn't be able to unless he has authorized overdraft protection and specifically from that account, according to FDIC banking guidelines. If they take from one account and give to another then they are doing something wrong.


Doesn't mean they won't do it.
Happened to me, and no I had NO agreed to overdraft protection from my sole account with the joint account.

Anyway - Why take the chance?


----------



## Squeakr

Unique Username said:


> Doesn't mean they won't do it.
> Happened to me, and no I had NO agreed to overdraft protection from my sole account with the joint account.
> 
> Anyway - Why take the chance?


Agreed but it is not really a chance as if they screw up and take the money they have to put it back. I know when I was in a small town and had the family bank experience where they personally knew the entire family for years, the bankers would do us those "courtesies" but when went to another town and larger branch that stopped happening. Within the last few years the way overdrafts are handled has been changed due to these oddities and now it is supposed to be authorized as an account to draw from otherwise it is illegal.


----------



## Marduk

1. back up everything you can
2. lock up everything that matters to you
3. take photos of the house and the possessions
4. go black as the blackest night and avoid any and all contact with this evil person as much as you can. Let your lawyer do the talking.

Oh, and don't even think about picking that lady up at the airport.

If she can bounce on a bunch of other rich dudes she can get herself a cab.

From this point on act like she's dead to you.


----------



## 6301

I can't say this strong enough. If she's as smart as you say she is then please, PLEASE carry that VAR with you, and anywhere your near her.

Too many times it happens when the wife is on the short end of the stick they will resort to the old "I'm being abused or threatened and I'm afraid" bs and next thing you know your sleeping in the back seat of your car.

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if she didn't try that tactic if she feels like shes up the creek. 

Don't believe anything she says and just be careful.


----------



## 6301

Unique Username said:


> Squatting? It's his own house, how is that squatting?


 My best friend was living with a woman for seven years. They lived in his house. He paid the mortgage, taxes, utilities, and any type of repairs and her name was not on anything.

Well they broke up and he told her to leave. She said no. This went back and forth and he took her to magistrate court and the end result was he lived in his brothers game room for seven months until he took her to court again and they finally settled on a date for her to move out.

The reason he moved was she became violent and tried to turn it around and make it like her was the one and rather than run the risk, he used common sense and moved to avoid the trouble. The kicker was that they worked together and this took place 5 years ago and they still work together but now he has the upper hand and just blows her off at every turn.

He had more patience than I would have had.


----------



## Squeakr

6301 said:


> My best friend was living with a woman for seven years. They lived in his house. He paid the mortgage, taxes, utilities, and any type of repairs and her name was not on anything


In some states this could be considered common law marriage and she could be found entitled to half of everything. Yes it does happen.


----------



## Joka

6301 said:


> I can't say this strong enough. If she's as smart as you say she is then please, PLEASE carry that VAR with you, and anywhere your near her.
> 
> Too many times it happens when the wife is on the short end of the stick they will resort to the old "I'm being abused or threatened and I'm afraid" bs and next thing you know your sleeping in the back seat of your car.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised one bit if she didn't try that tactic if she feels like shes up the creek.
> 
> Don't believe anything she says and just be careful.


She is texting and emailing me all nicety nice. I love you's are flowing, (I am not answering her calls). That will all change in a heartbeat at some point very soon I am sure about that. 
VAR's will be with me at all times.


----------



## bandit.45

So does she know you know? Or only suspect you know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> So does she know you know? Or only suspect you know?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I confronted her on the last dude and she admitted after I badgered and did not waiver for a whole night. That was January. I told her I knew of others but I did not have specifics but I was sure because of the recordings which she does not know about. She also does not know what I just heard here talking about to the latest male skank that was sniffing around. That is what put me over the edge and got me to get the process going. I was paralyzed for quite a while but after hearing the latest that was it. Like I said before, she will never know how or exactly what I know. I told her about all the episodes and I have heard her talking to friends that I was so specific it was uncanny. It is driving her crazy and she has said she is always looking over her shoulder thinking someone is watching. I will just do a complete 180 on her and never speak of any of it. My goal is to get divorced, period.


----------



## Turin74

Joka said:


> It is driving her crazy and she has said she is always looking over her shoulder thinking someone is watching


... which is the price for cheating, right? Who ever said cheating has no consequences?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## 6301

Joka said:


> She is texting and emailing me all nicety nice. I love you's are flowing, (I am not answering her calls). That will all change in a heartbeat at some point very soon I am sure about that.
> VAR's will be with me at all times.


 Yeah, I'll bet she is because she's scratching her ass trying to figure a way out of this and she's wondering how you know so much.

She might think that you hired a PI and she's been followed.

I guarantee that right now she's thinking up all kinds of ways to explain her misdeeds to put it mildly and when she comes home her mouth is going to be going 50 mph and what's going to really put a crimp in her is if you pay no attention to her and act like she's not there.

Just keep your finger on the button of the VAR and copy everything then file it somewhere that only you have access.


----------



## Joka

6301 said:


> Yeah, I'll bet she is because she's scratching her ass trying to figure a way out of this and she's wondering how you know so much.
> 
> She might think that you hired a PI and she's been followed.
> 
> I guarantee that right now she's thinking up all kinds of ways to explain her misdeeds to put it mildly and when she comes home her mouth is going to be going 50 mph and what's going to really put a crimp in her is if you pay no attention to her and act like she's not there.
> 
> Just keep your finger on the button of the VAR and copy everything then file it somewhere that only you have access.


You are spot on all of it.
She has mentioned to me that she thinks I hired a PI.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> You are spot on all of it.
> She has mentioned to me that she thinks I hired a PI.


Im glad you just want to be done with it. Perhaps never say anything until you can have her served. Tgeres nothing to talk or argue about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Wait until the divorce is final, then toss the VAR to her. 

"Here sloot. Here's the answer to the mystery. Suck on that."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Graywolf2

Joka said:


> She has mentioned to me that she thinks I hired a PI.



Excellent. Let her keep her thinking that.


----------



## 6301

bandit.45 said:


> Wait until the divorce is final, then toss the VAR to her.
> 
> "Here sloot. Here's the answer to the mystery. Suck on that."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 The best revenge will be Joka watching her when she finally realizes that it was her own big mouth that did her in and he has it all on a VAR. Hope he carries a camera to get a picture of her when she see's what he has. Priceless.

Nothing worse than shooting yourself in the foot because then she has no one to try to blame.


----------



## Marduk

My advice would be to focus on getting out of this marriage with as much of your dignity, sanity, and possessions intact as you can.

She's on her own road. It's a dead end. Karma will deal with her; you don't have to.

Go dark. Lawyer up. Strike with papers while she's confused and could be a bit reasonable while she tries to keep the lies going. Stay strong. Get some buddies.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Joka said:


> Wow! I am on 3 hours of sleep. My other recording is downloading and my WW texts me "Good morning, Love you" WTF


Ain't it a trip?!? That kinda sh!t never ceases to amaze me. You get Meryl Streep and the POSOM gets wifey 2.0 "wh0re edition" with raw dog upgrade for no extra charge.


----------



## weightlifter

Keep her thinking PI.

If you need help on something, let me know.


----------



## Joka

marduk said:


> My advice would be to focus on getting out of this marriage with as much of your dignity, sanity, and possessions intact as you can.
> 
> She's on her own road. It's a dead end. Karma will deal with her; you don't have to.
> 
> Go dark. Lawyer up. Strike with papers while she's confused and could be a bit reasonable while she tries to keep the lies going. Stay strong. Get some buddies.


That is the exact plan I am focusing on. All else is insignificant


----------



## Joka

BetrayedDad said:


> Ain't it a trip?!? That kinda sh!t never ceases to amaze me. You get Meryl Streep and the POSOM gets wifey 2.0 "wh0re edition" with raw dog upgrade for no extra charge.


Thanks for a good laugh


----------



## Joka

weightlifter said:


> Keep her thinking PI.
> 
> If you need help on something, let me know.


Yes, it will drive her nuts.
Calm, quiet, going dark - that is me till this is over.
I pulled the VAR's and GPS units. I'm done and I want to stay clean with no skeletons in the closet.


----------



## Joka

weightlifter said:


> Keep her thinking PI.
> 
> If you need help on something, let me know.


Thanks weighlifter


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Thanks weighlifter


Joka.

Which forms of surviellence did you use to gather your information and how long did it take to collect enough conclusive info?

Thanks.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> Joka.
> 
> Which forms of surviellence did you use to gather your information and how long did it take to collect enough conclusive info?
> 
> Thanks.


This is what I used.
Micro Digital Audio Recorder | Tiny Audio Recorder

I have 2 so I could use in the house and in the car. 
Best I could find that picked up from 30' the smallest sound. They are a bit pricey but worth it. I used the USB ones with bad results. These never failed to pick up everything and they are so small. The batteries last 3 days plus. You can buy them locally, Zinc Air hearing aid batteries.
Saved my Chump Life


----------



## bandit.45

What is your strategy for tonight ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tdwal

Joka said:


> This is what I used.
> Micro Digital Audio Recorder | Tiny Audio Recorder
> 
> I have 2 so I could use in the house and in the car.
> Best I could find that picked up from 30' the smallest sound. They are a bit pricey but worth it. I used the USB ones with bad results. These never failed to pick up everything and they are so small. The batteries last 3 days plus. You can buy them locally, Zinc Air hearing aid batteries.
> Saved my Chump Life


Geez, those dudes are $450 bucks each. Usually people use the Sony recorders at $50 each.


----------



## Healer

Joka said:


> Wow! I am on 3 hours of sleep. My other recording is downloading and my WW texts me "Good morning, Love you"
> WTF


Oh man, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Stay strong brother. The upshot (if there is one) is that now you know who she really is - you're no longer in the dark. You can now start making preparations to remove her from your life. She's poison to you. Excise her.


----------



## Joka

tdwal said:


> Geez, those dudes are $450 bucks each. Usually people use the Sony recorders at $50 each.


They are pricey but when it comes to sh^t like this the cost is nothing. This is my life. $450 is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Believe me, I did not like shelling out a $1000 for 2 but it got me without a doubt what I needed to hear so I was not played anymore. I could hear a fly fart. Priceless!


----------



## Joka

Those VAR's are so small I could squeeze it under the steering column with the foam cover and still hear clear as anything


----------



## Joka

Healer said:


> Oh man, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Stay strong brother. The upshot (if there is one) is that now you know who she really is - you're no longer in the dark. You can now start making preparations to remove her from your life. She's poison to you. Excise her.


You are so right. I am looking forward to a life of no doubt, accusations, and deception.


----------



## tdwal

Joka said:


> Those VAR's are so small I could squeeze it under the steering column with the foam cover and still hear clear as anything


Glad you could afford them but nobody has complained much about missing things with the sony's either with the exception of radio noise interference but you would have that with any recorder.


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> What is your strategy for tonight ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't know for sure. I know I set myself up in the guest room. Its pretty nice their so I'll take it plus I am not looking to make demands like telling her to move to another room. I just want a divorce and get out as soon as possible. The VAR will be in my pocket and in my vehicle that's for sure. I have been mentally preparing myself for the barrage of questions and how I will answer them in a very mono tone way without really giving her the answers she wants. I am going 180. No conflict from me, no questions from me, no accusations form me. I just want a divorce and come out of this as whole as possible.


----------



## Healer

turnera said:


> Why? Surely, with no kids in the house and your age, you're capable of moving somewhere else?


Why should he have to leave his house because his wife is a lying cheat?


----------



## Healer

Joka said:


> I confronted her on the last dude and she admitted after I badgered and did not waiver for a whole night. That was January. I told her I knew of others but I did not have specifics but I was sure because of the recordings which she does not know about. She also does not know what I just heard here talking about to the latest male skank that was sniffing around. That is what put me over the edge and got me to get the process going. I was paralyzed for quite a while but after hearing the latest that was it. Like I said before, she will never know how or exactly what I know. I told her about all the episodes and I have heard her talking to friends that I was so specific it was uncanny. It is driving her crazy and she has said she is always looking over her shoulder thinking someone is watching. I will just do a complete 180 on her and never speak of any of it. My goal is to get divorced, period.


This is what I wanted to hear you say. Stick to it. Silent 180. Best for you, and it will DRIVE HER BAT**** INSANE. (A little bonus for you).


----------



## Healer

bandit.45 said:


> Wait until the divorce is final, then toss the VAR to her.
> 
> "Here sloot. Here's the answer to the mystery. Suck on that."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, don't do that if it's against the law. Don't screw yourself in anyway (she did that to you already). Protect your ass and leave her in the dark. NEVER reveal. Take it to your grave, it will give you a hand up and your silence will torture her.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> You are so right. I am looking forward to a life of no doubt, accusations, and deception.


Sounds good. You think the sex and intimacy will be better?


----------



## treyvion

Healer said:


> No, don't do that if it's against the law. Don't screw yourself in anyway (she did that to you already). Protect your ass and leave her in the dark. NEVER reveal. Take it to your grave, it will give you a hand up and your silence will torture her.


It's very powerful to maintain your emotions, never say a word to her and get on with your life like it never happened.

There's nothing to go back and forth arguing on, what do you expect to gain out of it?

You don't have to make her feel bad, because your hitting the reset button and done with her. After a couple years after you made so much progress in your life without a lying cheater, she will feel all she needs to.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

treyvion said:


> It's very powerful to maintain your emotions, never say a word to her and get on with your life like it never happened.
> 
> There's nothing to go back and forth arguing on, what do you expect to gain out of it?
> 
> You don't have to make her feel bad, because your hitting the reset button and done with her. After a couple years after you made so much progress in your life without a lying cheater, she will feel all she needs to.


I'm OK with the 180....well not quite. the getting on with his life is a good thing but what's wrong with calling a spade a spade, or with calling garbage "garbage"....or in this case what's wrong with calling a wh0re a wh0re? he doesn't have to make her feel bad? what if he wants to?? why wouldn't he?
I think he should approach with his emotions in check...sure.......but I think one can use terms like "wh0re" and phrases like "I must have met you on a day I had been scraping the bottom of my shoes" etc. he could just state it to her matter of factly- because these are facts, after all.


----------



## JustGrinding

6301 said:


> The best revenge will be Joka watching her when she finally realizes that it was her own big mouth that did her in and he has it all on a VAR. Hope he carries a camera to get a picture of her when she see's what he has. Priceless.
> 
> Nothing worse than shooting yourself in the foot because then she has no one to try to blame.


No!

Don't! Ever! Let! Her! Know!


----------



## sidney2718

nuclearnightmare said:


> I'm OK with the 180....well not quite. the getting on with his life is a good thing but what's wrong with calling a spade a spade, or with calling garbage "garbage"....or in this case what's wrong with calling a wh0re a wh0re? he doesn't have to make her feel bad? what if he wants to?? why wouldn't he?
> I think he should approach with his emotions in check...sure.......but I think one can use terms like "wh0re" and phrases like "I must have met you on a day I had been scraping the bottom of my shoes" etc. he could just state it to her matter of factly- because these are facts, after all.


I don't think I agree. The first question is, I think, what does he gain by name calling? Five minutes of feeling good?

The second question is what happens down the road. One never knows when a rattlesnake sneaks by. I'd not give her any ammunition about anything at all. That's one of the advantages of a no-fault divorce, you don't have to spill all the beans.

I think that this is a case of "living well is the best revenge!"


----------



## 6301

JustGrinding said:


> No!
> 
> Don't! Ever! Let! Her! Know!


 I never said he has to tell her how he knows, all he has to do is just give time, date, place and with whom. She's going to know the time, date, place and with whom also and as soon as he mentions that it will be the look on her face that will give it all away. I know that from first hand experience and the look on her face was what gave me all I needed to know with Mrs 6301 part 2.

If she asks, he can look at her and just shrug his shoulders and say in a calm manner, "It really doesn't matter because I know and your goose is cooked".


----------



## 6301

Joka. If your only running on three hours of sleep, then the only thing I can tell you is that very soon your wife is going to be wishing for three hours of sleep. She isn't going to get much after what you have planned.


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## Squeakr

6301 said:


> Joka. If your only running on three hours of sleep, then the only thing I can tell you is that very soon your wife is going to be wishing for three hours of sleep. She isn't going to get much after what you have planned.


Don't count on that. It amazes me how when caught it is so easy for the WS to compartmentalize and live their life as if nothing has happened. The BS loses sleep and the WS is like nothing happened and carries on normally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

Squeakr said:


> Don't count on that. It amazes me how when caught it is so easy for the WS to compartmentalize and live their life as if nothing has happened. The BS loses sleep and the WS is like nothing happened and carries on normally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thats why the BS is going to get on with his life. It will energize him.to drop the lying cheater and.never look back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joka

treyvion said:


> Thats why the BS is going to get on with his life. It will energize him.to drop the lying cheater and.never look back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right, it will energize me but it is going to be a long road for sure. With all the legal stuff and still living in the same house, it will be a very stressful time. Don't get me wrong in all this, I still have deep feelings for my ww, wtf I don't know why, but once this is all said and done that will fade. What will make it flip to the point of I can't stand breathing the same air as her is when she starts with her bad attitude. When that happens it will only make me more resolved and reassure that this is the only way. It will come and most likely pretty fast.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> You are right, it will energize me but it is going to be a long road for sure. With all the legal stuff and still living in the same house, it will be a very stressful time. Don't get me wrong in all this, I still have deep feelings for my ww, wtf I don't know why, but once this is all said and done that will fade. What will make it flip to the point of I can't stand breathing the same air as her is when she starts with her bad attitude. When that happens it will only make me more resolved and reassure that this is the only way. It will come and most likely pretty fast.



It be better for you to never get to that point. Id move out or have her do so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> It be better for you to never get to that point. Id move out or have her do so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can't move until agreement is signed. Lawyer says it is not in my best interest. It could be taken as abandonment and even if not there will be no incentive for her to sign anything and it could drag on. The best thing is for her to get to the point she can't stand it and will sign anything just to get on with her dlife. That is where the 180 comes in


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

nuclearnightmare said:


> I'm OK with the 180....well not quite. the getting on with his life is a good thing but what's wrong with calling a spade a spade, or with calling garbage "garbage"....or in this case what's wrong with calling a wh0re a wh0re? he doesn't have to make her feel bad? what if he wants to?? why wouldn't he?
> I think he should approach with his emotions in check...sure.......but I think one can use terms like "wh0re" and phrases like "I must have met you on a day I had been scraping the bottom of my shoes" etc. he could just state it to her matter of factly- because these are facts, after all.


He has already admitted he lost it once, why take a second chance? It's easy to say "why not" on the net, when she is away or on the phone. It is much harder to maintain the tone you suggest in the face of the cause of his pain.


----------



## 6301

nuclearnightmare said:


> I'm OK with the 180....well not quite. the getting on with his life is a good thing but what's wrong with calling a spade a spade, or with calling garbage "garbage"....or in this case what's wrong with calling a wh0re a wh0re? he doesn't have to make her feel bad? what if he wants to?? why wouldn't he?
> I think he should approach with his emotions in check...sure.......but I think one can use terms like "wh0re" and phrases like "I must have met you on a day I had been scraping the bottom of my shoes" etc. he could just state it to her matter of factly- because these are facts, after all.



I can understand what you mean but I think the last thing he would want to do is make a horrible matter worse. All that will do is make one of them do something that could come back and haunt.

In his case it would be her calling the cops and crying the blues to them and next thing you know he's on his way out the door and in the back seat of a cop car.

He's better off keeping his mouth shut and hope to God he doesn't get a ulcer from it.


----------



## the guy

Cheaters wouldn't have to keep looking over their shoulder is they wouldn't cheat.

My God my old lady went 13 yrs looking over her shoulder...how can these phucking cheaters live like that!!!

I mean when I was a bad guy before I became just the guy I got real tired of looking over my shoulder for the law or some POS that wanted my stuff.... I never got busted but living like that was not living at all.

Again, how can these cheaters go 5, 7,or even 13 years living like that????


----------



## the guy

With regards to living in the same house, my thinking is one can live under the same roof, it all depends on how much time you spend in that house.

I'd be doing a lot of traveling and riding.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Squeakr said:


> Don't count on that. It amazes me how when caught it is so easy for the WS to compartmentalize and live their life as if nothing has happened. The BS loses sleep and the WS is like nothing happened and carries on normally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because they've been checked out so long they simply don't care about the suffering of a BS anymore. It comes back to how SELFISH the act of cheating really is. All they care about is themselves. You're feelings mean nothing, hence why they cheated in the first place... The BS loses sleep because they have a conscious.


----------



## treyvion

the guy said:


> With regards to living in the same house, my thinking is one can live under the same roof, it all depends on how much time you spend in that house.
> 
> I'd be doing a lot of traveling and riding.


Its easier not to live under the same roof, because the visuals and audibles will trigger him and make it think its his own wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Decorum

Stay strong Joka
I'm sure it hurts, but you are in a better place than you were 5 months ago.

The day after surgery may hurt more than the day before but at least the tumor has been removed so to speak.

Take good care of yourself, you'll get through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

Update:
Picked up ww from airport. She made some small talk. I was semi quiet. No harsh words from her or me. Not even an onslaught of questions like I was envisioning. I got home and went to the guest room and went to bed. Very uneventful. What a relief.
This morning I got up to go to work and she was up and wearing a scowl on her face just staring at my every move not saying a word as to intimidate me. She stared at me until she couldn't see me drive off anymore. Made me feel good. No contact all day. Went home late afternoon, cut the grass and she was coming in from walking. She did that stare thing again. I guess she thinks it will intimidate me some how. I dunno. When I finished cutting the grass I showered and left to go get myself some dinner and now I am sitting at a Starbucks. So far a very uneventful day. I know they won't all go this way.


----------



## aug

She "scowl"ing at you because she's wondering why you did not go off on her. Or wondering what you know. If you keep the 180 up, she'll know for sure the marriage is kaput.


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## Joka

aug said:


> She "scowl"ing at you because she's wondering why you did not go off on her. Or wondering what you know. If you keep the 180 up, she'll know for sure the marriage is kaput.


Words like these our encouragement. thanks.

Wouldn't you know I am having a peaceful evening sitting outside at Starbucks on my computer and the traveling twat calls twice. Say that real fast. I never answered. If there is something that I should know she can text me.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Joka said:


> Words like these our encouragement. thanks.
> 
> Wouldn't you know I am having a peaceful evening sitting outside at Starbucks on my computer and the traveling twat calls twice. Say that real fast. I never answered. If there is something that I should know she can text me.


Tell me that you VAR'd the house...


----------



## Joka

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Tell me that you VAR'd the house...


Nope! I pulled everything. I am doing a 180 and I really do not give a sh*t. She can say what she wants, call whomever she wants, go wherever she wants. I Don't Care! I want to be divorced from this psycho. I don't want confrontation, I don't want to know her. If she is planning anything sinister so be it. I am clean with no skeletons.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Joka said:


> Nope! I pulled everything. I am doing a 180 and I really do not give a sh*t. She can say what she wants, call whomever she wants, go wherever she wants. I Don't Care! I want to be divorced from this psycho. I don't want confrontation, I don't want to know her. If she is planning anything sinister so be it. I am clean with no skeletons.


O.k., makes sense. I'd be curious to here what she had to say and who she had to say it to on her first day back.

She never mentioned anything about you moving to the guest room? If not, man she's one cool cucumber.

Stay frosty yourself.


----------



## Joka

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> O.k., makes sense. I'd be curious to here what she had to say and who she had to say it to on her first day back.
> 
> She never mentioned anything about you moving to the guest room? If not, man she's one cool cucumber.
> 
> Stay frosty yourself.


Don't get me wrong, I am very curious and would love to know all the gory details but it is very liberating to just stop. I know my path. I have more information than I wish I had. It was nice today not to have to think about VAR's, GPS, all that time wasted listening to recordings, figuring out which batteries need to be refreshed, retrieving them without getting caught and planting new ones without getting caught. It was tiring. I was obsessed but I know details that I would never had and that is important to me. It is like recovering from surgery and stabbing yourself everyday. It does not help with the healing process.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Joka said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am very curious and would love to know all the gory details but it is very liberating to just stop. I know my path. I have more information than I wish I had. It was nice today not to have to think about VAR's, GPS, all that time wasted listening to recordings, figuring out which batteries need to be refreshed, retrieving them without getting caught and planting new ones without getting caught. It was tiring. I was obsessed but I know details that I would never had and that is important to me. It is like recovering from surgery and stabbing yourself everyday. It does not help with the healing process.


The detective in me would wonder, but you are 100% right. When you've decided to move on, what's the sense of risking more aggravation. I'd also forgotten how tiring the self PI'ing is.

You've done much better than most BS's that come here in your situation. You've done much better than I did.

I hope you can stick around here for a while after your D is final. I believe that you'd be a great addition to the TAM team...


----------



## Ripper

Joka said:


> wearing a scowl on her face just staring at my every move not saying a word as to intimidate me.


This isn't the indicator of a cooperative individual. Stay frosty.

Sounds like you are doing awesome given the circumstances. Hope you get a fair shake during the legal process.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Update:
> Picked up ww from airport. She made some small talk. I was semi quiet. No harsh words from her or me. Not even an onslaught of questions like I was envisioning. I got home and went to the guest room and went to bed. Very uneventful. What a relief.
> This morning I got up to go to work and she was up and wearing a scowl on her face just staring at my every move not saying a word as to intimidate me. She stared at me until she couldn't see me drive off anymore. Made me feel good. No contact all day. Went home late afternoon, cut the grass and she was coming in from walking. She did that stare thing again. I guess she thinks it will intimidate me some how. I dunno. When I finished cutting the grass I showered and left to go get myself some dinner and now I am sitting at a Starbucks. So far a very uneventful day. I know they won't all go this way.


sweet. The scowl might have been intimidation and anger to you for her cheating. They get mad at the betrayed because they cannot blame themself. Youve gone an interesting direction in anticipation to get your life back. A peaceful and happy direction. Theres someone good for you out there but for now you have yourself. Im happy for you. Do not get drawn into arguing about the affair because its nothing to gain. In fact you can be happy when she goes on her next trip because itll be time alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DTO

bryanp said:


> Sorry.
> 
> Make sure you get tested for STD's. Please expose her affairs to everyone of consequence.


Agree with the first point.

Please check with your attorney on the second point. Mine (and he was really good) stressed that going "scorched earth" might not be in your best interest. Example - let's say you spread the word and she gets fired. Next thing you know, she is hitting you for more spousal support because her income is now lower.

Can happen (at least here in CA).


----------



## DTO

Joka said:


> All good advise.
> But, the VAR's are not legal and she does not know that is how I got my info and never will. She is as sharp as a lawyer and when put to the wall would go after me on it. I have heard her say she is scared of what I might know. That is how I found out about an affair long ago when around the time we sere getting married. She said I don't know what he has on me he might even know about my fling with NAME at Company. I did get an HIV and STD test. She is out of town right now. Do I text her or call her and tell her she is being served. I know a lot of people will say screw her and just have the lawyer email over the representation letter but I do not want to be like her.


Agree on the VARs, and anyways (at least in CA) divorces are no-fault. You are not going to get any advantage in court based on the reason you are seeking divorce. There aren't any minor children either, so not even the potential for the affairs to play out in that regard either.

As far as "not being like her", don't worry about that. Don't seek to use your lawyer as a weapon against her (because that will get expensive for you real quick, if you even have a lawyer that will go along - many will not). But don't worry about how she will feel about a particular action either. Find that middle road where you are taking positive, decisive steps to maximize your quantifiable outcome, and let it happen.


----------



## Joka

Thanks everyone for the kudos. We'll see how I can hold up when the storm hits. This is Sunday morning about 7am. I have a whole day to figure out how to keep my composure. These 3 day holiday weekends are tough when going through this. My plan so far today: gym, Church, Breakfast. Lets see if she tries to block me somehow from leaving. I hear her rummaging around upstairs now. One thing that this has done is get me to go to church and I actually like it. It seems to be a place where people for at least a short time are genuinely happy and peaceful. I seldom went to church. Only after being dragged their but it has become part of my routine now. Not a bad thing.


----------



## Chaparral

Joka said:


> Thanks everyone for the kudos. We'll see how I can hold up when the storm hits. This is Sunday morning about 7am. I have a whole day to figure out how to keep my composure. These 3 day holiday weekends are tough when going through this. My plan so far today: gym, Church, Breakfast. Lets see if she tries to block me somehow from leaving. I hear her rummaging around upstairs now. One thing that this has done is get me to go to church and I actually like it. It seems to be a place where people for at least a short time are genuinely happy and peaceful. I seldom went to church. Only after being dragged their but it has become part of my routine now. Not a bad thing.


I agree, and it seems my luck always runs better when I am attending. I really don't pay much attention to the service. Its hard for me to concentrate on something at such a slow pace. Instead I read the Bible. There is wisdom in there that can help anyone regardless of their philosophical bent. Its just common sense.

Good luck. There is someone out there for you. She is somewhere right now and you just have to figure out who it is.


----------



## Joka

Well I am trying to get out as soon as possible to avoid any contact with her but just like I thought, she follows me to the door as I am trying to get to my vehicle she says to me " are you ever going to talk to me". "You are my best friend. I just wrote a check out for $7500 to a lawyer". I looked very puzzled and in my best spocone (_movie mob Italian_) voice say "I'm your best friend". In my head I just about screamed at myself to not get sucked in and I quickly shut up. I wanted to jumped down her throat but I didn't. She was sobbing at the time and really I am shocked that she has been so docile. Her, "I don't know why you are doing this". Again me in my best ****y spocone voice, "you don't know why I am doing this". "You need some counseling". (_When you are doing the spocone voice you have to repeat the question. I need to entertain myself sometimes.) _ Anyway, she is just staring at me from the top of the stairs as I back out of the garage. I shut the door on her staring at me and drive off. I don't like being so cold but Phuck her.


----------



## Chaparral

She knows. She just wants to know how much you know so she can acertain her chances of gaslighting you.


----------



## weightlifter

#adds brass balls endorsement to Joka's man card.

Thanks for actually listening. I dont write that document for fun. You would be surprised how much arguing I get.

Chin up. Believe it or not, in time, Love 2.0 will find you. Most likely from when/where you least expect it. Yes I know it seems unwanted and impossible now.

LEAN ON YOUR FRIENDS! That is in the job description of friend.

Echoing above. VARS are the ace you NEVER EVER give up or talk about. The sheer power is... well you know first hand.


----------



## Healer

Joka said:


> Update:
> Picked up ww from airport. She made some small talk. I was semi quiet. No harsh words from her or me. Not even an onslaught of questions like I was envisioning. I got home and went to the guest room and went to bed. Very uneventful. What a relief.
> This morning I got up to go to work and she was up and wearing a scowl on her face just staring at my every move not saying a word as to intimidate me. She stared at me until she couldn't see me drive off anymore. Made me feel good. No contact all day. Went home late afternoon, cut the grass and she was coming in from walking. She did that stare thing again. I guess she thinks it will intimidate me some how. I dunno. When I finished cutting the grass I showered and left to go get myself some dinner and now I am sitting at a Starbucks. So far a very uneventful day. I know they won't all go this way.


Wow, what a manipulator. Trying to psych you out. Don't fall for it.


----------



## turnera

VERY impressive. I hope other BHs learn from you.


----------



## 6301

There's nothing worse then the cold shoulder when it comes to this. Your giving her nothing to build her case on and that's what she was hoping for. Point, counter point with a spin to justify her actions.

Since there are no more VAR's in the house, I still hope your carrying one because if she feels trapped and can't find a way out, she can get desperate and try to get even. Be careful.


----------



## Joka

Update:
It is now Sunday 11:45am. I went to the gym and found 2 missed calls. Then I went to church and found 16 missed calls from her. I am at a Brueggers Bagel having my Sunday morning coffee and breakfast in peace outside in the sun. ...
The message at church was unbelievable, the pastor talked about boundaries and how people cross them and some keep going and how it is so pleasurable while in the moment but their is pain to pay. How apropos.


----------



## Joka

You know, I give a heartfelt Thank You to all that have followed this and responded with your thoughts and advise. I cannot thank you all enough. I would never have thought at the beginning that I would feel this way to a bunch of people that I never met. I guess we have, just not physically. Probably a more deep way too.
Anyway, it is amazing that for 5 months all I did was have horrific images, movies and thoughts all centered around a self-centered disrespectful person. When I woke up, all day, all night, no matter what I was doing the thoughts were there never leaving me for 1 second. If I laughed at something which was rare I had thoughts running in the back of my mind. Now ever since I told the lawyer to proceed 90% of it went away and I started thinking about me. It is true that you need to focus on yourself in these situations but when you are going through it, it seems impossible. I guess we do but do not know it that is why we come out the end of it still breathing. I am just going to keep going in a straight line and at some point I will be at the other end, a much better place.


----------



## Joka

Ok so among the 16 missed calls she left a voice message:
"I am a wreck and I am going to quit my job tomorrow and I can't handle the pressure with work and you. I don't want to be alone".

So she thinks it was her job that made her be a traveling twat ***** (hawr). I know people who travel a lot for work and they don't have this type of behavior.


----------



## Machiavelli

Joka said:


> Update:
> It is now Sunday 11:45am. I went to the gym and found 2 missed calls. Then I went to church and found 16 missed calls from her. I am at a Brueggers Bagel having my Sunday morning coffee and breakfast in peace outside in the sun. ...
> The message at church was unbelievable, the pastor talked about boundaries and how people cross them and some keep going and how it is so pleasurable while in the moment but their is pain to pay. How apropos.


One thing about church, you can't always get what you want, but if you go sometimes, you get what you need.


----------



## weightlifter

Stop her from quitting her job. Make sure she knows it's about cheating not work.

Alone?! She has lover boy.

Reason: possible alimony implications.


----------



## BobSimmons

If you're going to divorce then confront and tell her you know. 

Stop with the game playing, I'm sure it's fun *and I kind of don't blame you* for playing this card, it's giving you a sense of balance and control.

Of course you dont revel your sources but let her know you know, let her know it's over then proceed to plan for your futures.

The way she's acting she might throw a ton of sex at you but you know the game. Don't play it. You can still have control but it's power and dominion over your own path. That should be comforting.


----------



## treyvion

BobSimmons said:


> If you're going to divorce then confront and tell her you know.
> 
> Stop with the game playing, I'm sure it's fun *and I kind of don't blame you* for playing this card, it's giving you a sense of balance and control.
> 
> Of course you dont revel your sources but let her know you know, let her know it's over then proceed to plan for your futures.
> 
> The way she's acting she might throw a ton of sex at you but you know the game. Don't play it. You can still have control but it's power and dominion over your own path. That should be comforting.


She might quit her job so he will be "forced" to take care of her.

I'm not sure I would say anything, because she will attempt to talk her way out of it. To try to supplicate, cajole, do what ever.

And don't fall for any of the sex bit. I wouldn't say anything, leave things exactly as they are until the papers are served. Around that point I would decide whether she is moving out or I'm moving out. She doesn't need to know where you stay if you move out.


----------



## HarryDoyle

BobSimmons said:


> If you're going to divorce then confront and tell her you know.
> 
> Stop with the game playing, I'm sure it's fun *and I kind of don't blame you* for playing this card, it's giving you a sense of balance and control.
> 
> Of course you dont revel your sources but let her know you know, let her know it's over then proceed to plan for your futures.


I agree. Even the most violent serial killer has the charges read against them. She can plead innocent all she wants, it doesn't matter, YOU are the judge and jury, and you get to announce the verdict and pronounce sentence, and in this court there is no appeal process.

Read her the charges and give her your verdict and then move on. If you are truely convinced about leaving her, nothing SHE can say should give you any second thoughts.


----------



## treyvion

HarryDoyle said:


> I agree. Even the most violent serial killer has the charges read against them. She can plead innocent all she wants, it doesn't matter, YOU are the judge and jury, and you get to announce the verdict and pronounce sentence, and in this court there is no appeal process.
> 
> Read her the charges and give her your verdict and then move on. If you are truely convinced about leaving her, nothing SHE can say should give you any second thoughts.


The thing is many of us betrayeds have thought we locked it up tight on a cheater, done and moved on, and they said or did the one thing that started us to talking again and looking at them in a positive light and end up trying to work it out.

If the guy understands this woman has a multiple year history of a cheating lifestyle, where he has been used as a "safe landing pad", and he no longer wants any part of it, he just needs to get the hell out of there. There really is nothing to say.


----------



## Ripper

treyvion said:


> She might quit her job so he will be "forced" to take care of her.


This is my fear as well. 

Ask your attorney if this will affect the proceedings, then decide if you want to confront with what you know. (but not how you know it!) If you are feeling 90% better, then I believe your strategy is the best for you at the moment.


----------



## jim123

BobSimmons said:


> If you're going to divorce then confront and tell her you know.
> 
> Stop with the game playing, I'm sure it's fun *and I kind of don't blame you* for playing this card, it's giving you a sense of balance and control.
> 
> Of course you dont revel your sources but let her know you know, let her know it's over then proceed to plan for your futures.
> 
> The way she's acting she might throw a ton of sex at you but you know the game. Don't play it. You can still have control but it's power and dominion over your own path. That should be comforting.


I agree. Go out a winner. Get answers if you need them. At this point it is all about you and your healing.


----------



## Joka

Here's the deal, I am not playing games and it is not fun. I want to get a divorce as soon as possible with the least confrontation as possible and with as close to as many $$ as I put into everything for the past 13 years... period!
Confronting her is not necessary. I have in the last 5 months done that and she just lies and lies and lies, she is good at it. I know the truth or at least what I have heard from her lips behind my back. If it wasn't for the VAR's I would probably be her chump for quite sometime. The VAR's have saved my life because I know everything without her telling me with all her spin tied to it. 
As far as her quitting her job, there is nothing I can do about that. She is crafty. She will cry and cry and make it like she is doing it for us and be extremely convincing but I am sure there is an ulterior motive. Because in my outbursts in the past 5 months I have leaked out very specific facts of places, times and with who but never told her how I know. She really does not know what I know. Especially of the latest conversation that put me over the edge to finally move forward. I never revealed that I heard that. She knows what she has said, done and acted in public and probably thinks it was a PI or someone ratted her out. Because she will say that I had sex with her after knowing in my state that means it is ok with me and I condone it. So no alimony. I was never intending to go there but I did want it to seem so, so it will push her to signing an agreement and not drag this into court. If she thinks I know some damming evidence she will be less likely to go that route.


----------



## jim123

Joka said:


> Here's the deal, I am not playing games and it is not fun. I want to get a divorce as soon as possible with the least confrontation as possible and with as close to as many $$ as I put into everything for the past 13 years... period!
> Confronting her is not necessary. I have in the last 5 months done that and she just lies and lies and lies, she is good at it. I know the truth or at least what I have heard from her lips behind my back. If it wasn't for the VAR's I would probably be her chump for quite sometime. The VAR's have saved my life because I know everything without her telling me with all her spin tied to it.
> As far as her quitting her job, there is nothing I can do about that. She is crafty. She will cry and cry and make it like she is doing it for us and be extremely convincing but I am sure there is an ulterior motive. Because in my outbursts in the past 5 months I have leaked out very specific facts of places, times and with who but never told her how I know. She really does not know what I know. Especially of the latest conversation that put me over the edge to finally move forward. I never revealed that I heard that. She knows what she has said, done and acted in public and probably thinks it was a PI or someone ratted her out. Because she will say that I had sex with her after knowing in my state that means it is ok with me and I condone it. So no alimony. I was never intending to go there but I did want it to seem so, so it will push her to signing an agreement and not drag this into court. If she thinks I know some damming evidence she will be less likely to go that route.


You seem to know your path. You have already disclosed so there is no point. Get the fastest and best deal you can.

Do not fight with her. Tell her it is the best for both of you.


----------



## treyvion

Ripper said:


> This is my fear as well.
> 
> Ask your attorney if this will affect the proceedings, then decide if you want to confront with what you know. (but not how you know it!) If you are feeling 90% better, then I believe your strategy is the best for you at the moment.


He could move out or have her move out.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> He could move out or have her move out.


I can't and she would never. My lawyer says that would be abandonment and even if they could draft up something that she agrees to that I move then she would not have any incentive to sign the separation agreement. In this state you get a separation agreement of property and such then after 1 year of no contact you are automatically divorced.
She would never because she has a higher percentage than I do of equity in the house.


----------



## Machiavelli

You're doing the right thing. IMHO straight reconciliation with a WW should never be the result when there are no kids.


----------



## harrybrown

Please keep a VAR on you, in case she tries to charge you with abuse.

I do wish you well and am glad that you are in a better place than before.

Hope you get a good attorney.


----------



## ricky15100

She won't quit her job, manipulation at its best, turning into the old damsel in distress trying to ignite your knight in shining armour!


----------



## larry.gray

Joka said:


> Those VAR's are so small I could squeeze it under the steering column with the foam cover and still hear clear as anything


Tiny hijack here - but this gives me an idea. Has anyone tried putting a var inside the steering wheel? Every vehicle I've had has some level of access for the connectors associated with the air bag and buttons for cruse control, etc... Plenty of room to fit a var in there and it would be really close to the driver. Plus even the greatest clean freak wouldn't think of looking in there.


----------



## weightlifter

Uh. Are you in NC?


----------



## GusPolinski

weightlifter said:


> Uh. Are you in NC?


If so...

BOOM.


----------



## Chaparral

Tell her if she quits her job, she'll starve.


----------



## treyvion

Chaparral said:


> Tell her if she quits her job, she'll starve.


You cant sleep somewhere else, like in another house?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

weightlifter said:


> Uh. Are you in NC?


yup


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Now ever since I told the lawyer to proceed 90% of it went away and I started *thinking about me*. It is true that you need to *focus on yourself* in these situations but when you are going through it, it seems impossible



*YES Joka it is VERY important that you focus on yourself, get yourself better.* Do not let anyone tell you that you are being selfish. You are not the one that was betrayed BUT you are the one that has had your emotions ripped apart. You sure cannot depend on your wife to focus on you so you have to focus on yourself and do everything that benefits you without any false guilt.



She has damaged your emotion so that she could feed her selfish desires so put all your efforts into building yourself back up. She will come to you with big tears but tears do not tell the truth like actions do.


----------



## EleGirl

Joka said:


> As far as her quitting her job, there is nothing I can do about that. She is crafty.


If she has a history of employment, then it does not matter is she quits her job. You can ask the court to impute her income to what it was on her job.


----------



## Squeakr

larry.gray said:


> Tiny hijack here - but this gives me an idea. Has anyone tried putting a var inside the steering wheel? Every vehicle I've had has some level of access for the connectors associated with the air bag and buttons for cruse control, etc... Plenty of room to fit a var in there and it would be really close to the driver. Plus even the greatest clean freak wouldn't think of looking in there.


Doesn't seem as practical as it wouldn't be an easy swap to change batteries, swap out VAR's, etc. You also run the risk of creating issues if an accident occurs and the airbag fails to deploy correctly or other issues. Because of these things, it doesn't seem like a good candidate for the var location.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

EleGirl said:


> If she has a history of employment, then it does not matter is she quits her job. You can ask the court to impute her income to what it was on her job.


It's NC so he can contest any alimony anyway due to infidelity. In NC, infidelity pulls alimony off the table (unless of course both are engaging in infidelity, then the rules can change).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

Last night was an interesting evening. I go to bed, (guest room), and she comes in asking all sorts of questions. I tried to put my best game face on. She was looking to find out what I know. For the most part I did keep my composure but a little did leak out but not bad and I quickly shut it down and talked about how I know what I said in very vague and general terms. What was interesting is that she has diarrhea of the mouth and she got nervous and started saying "I know I was set up and was playing along". She is talking about the conversation she last had that pushed me to proceed with divorce. She did not play along because she said so many incriminating things. Then she starts to say "I can't help if guys ask for my room number". Wow! She doesn't know when to shut up, never has. 
Anyway, she doesn't want a divorce and even goes over every single point that I had made way back about who she was cheating with and financial stuff and says she wasn't doing this and she didn't do that. So she doesn't want a divorce, she misses me but she still looks me in the eyes and bold face lies. I didn't even go down that road with all the accusations, she brought it up. So I was in full composure at that time and did not argue or call her out I just was silent and kept saying I am getting a divorce.


----------



## harrybrown

Still not getting the truth out of her.

Have you ever mentioned to her that she shouldn't lie when you know differently? (and not mention what you know)

Or tell her she can write you a timeline of all her affairs, since she is not capable of telling the truth, when she speaks?

Glad you got some information. Hope she pays you alimony.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Last night was an interesting evening. I go to bed, (guest room), and she comes in asking all sorts of questions. I tried to put my best game face on. She was looking to find out what I know. For the most part I did keep my composure but a little did leak out but not bad and I quickly shut it down and talked about how I know what I said in very vague and general terms. What was interesting is that she has diarrhea of the mouth and she got nervous and started saying "I know I was set up and was playing along". She is talking about the conversation she last had that pushed me to proceed with divorce. She did not play along because she said so many incriminating things. Then she starts to say "I can't help if guys ask for my room number". Wow! She doesn't know when to shut up, never has.
> Anyway, she doesn't want a divorce and even goes over every single point that I had made way back about who she was cheating with and financial stuff and says she wasn't doing this and she didn't do that. So she doesn't want a divorce, she misses me but she still looks me in the eyes and bold face lies. I didn't even go down that road with all the accusations, she brought it up. So I was in full composure at that time and did not argue or call her out I just was silent and kept saying I am getting a divorce.


joka,

Its amazing you could forsee this happening and stick to your plan. Her brain will be going a million.miles an hour to figure out how to manipulate you to give up your position.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

I got up this morning and got out before she did. I got out of the gym and had 2 missed calls and 2 text messages. The I will quit my job (like the job made her do it) I don't want a Divorce and I love you's are flowing. I wish she would just do like she did all last year and verbally beat me up. I am sure it will come.


----------



## Hardtohandle

You are a great man.. You are doing something I wish I could have done in the end.. Just finish it without the drama.. I couldn't do it.. 

You are doing all the right things.. 

One day someone will call you out on it trying to blame you and you can toss them a DVD with all the recordings.. 

Here listen to this and then STFU, thank you..

What are you plans after the divorce is final. Do you intend on tell her ? 

I can see her rewriting history later on. Not that you care much about that as you know the truth..


----------



## Marduk

Joka said:


> Last night was an interesting evening. I go to bed, (guest room), and she comes in asking all sorts of questions. I tried to put my best game face on. She was looking to find out what I know. For the most part I did keep my composure but a little did leak out but not bad and I quickly shut it down and talked about how I know what I said in very vague and general terms. What was interesting is that she has diarrhea of the mouth and she got nervous and started saying "I know I was set up and was playing along". She is talking about the conversation she last had that pushed me to proceed with divorce. She did not play along because she said so many incriminating things. Then she starts to say "I can't help if guys ask for my room number". Wow! She doesn't know when to shut up, never has.
> Anyway, she doesn't want a divorce and even goes over every single point that I had made way back about who she was cheating with and financial stuff and says she wasn't doing this and she didn't do that. So she doesn't want a divorce, she misses me but she still looks me in the eyes and bold face lies. I didn't even go down that road with all the accusations, she brought it up. So I was in full composure at that time and did not argue or call her out I just was silent and kept saying I am getting a divorce.


You're doing great, I salute your strength and resolve as a man.

My only advice at this point is to ask why you're talking to her at all, let your lawyer do the talking.

You will NEVER get the truth out of her. She probably has so manly layers of rationalization and convenient "forgetfulness" that she probably has little conscious realization of what she's done at all.

If you need to get stuff off your chest, save it for after the papers have been signed. If at all.


----------



## Marduk

Joka said:


> I got up this morning and got out before she did. I got out of the gym and had 2 missed calls and 2 text messages. The I will quit my job (like the job made her do it) I don't want a Divorce and I love you's are flowing. I wish she would just do like she did all last year and verbally beat me up. I am sure it will come.


In al likelihood, next will come anger as it dawns on her that her current approach isn't working.

Or depression. Or trying to get your family on her side. Or even pulling away and openly dating to try to get you jealous.

Remember that her goal is to get you to support her and allow her the illusion of being a good wife... while she screws every other guy that crosses her path.

Her strategy will seek that goal at any cost, and will appear random... but won't be.

At any rate, when it fails, she will rationalize any and all possible reasons why you DROVE her to cheat and have verbal diarrhea to anyone that will listen.

Stay true to yourself and stand tall brother.


----------



## Joka

Geez HardToHamdle & Marduk. Thanks for the support. I don't feel that strong but I am trying my best to be. 
I just got 2 more missed calls and a voicemail. She is crying and saying don't do this and such. You know she almost has me but then she goes on to say "I didn't do all those things you say". Really! I didn't say them, she did and I heard it.


----------



## Joka

By the way, those astericks on the title of this thread was supposed to be hawr


----------



## Philat

Joka said:


> Then she starts to say "I can't help if guys ask for my room number".


And if they do you are compelled to give it to them?

There was a thread here some time back compiling stupid/insulting things that cheaters say. This one would have been very near the top. 

Joka, your WW may well crack under the strain of trying to do damage control to the point that she will spill some actual truth. Keep up the marble-cold facade.


----------



## Joka

Philat said:


> And if they do you are compelled to give it to them?
> 
> There was a thread here some time back compiling stupid/insulting things that cheaters say. This one would have been very near the top.
> 
> Joka, your WW may well crack under the strain of trying to do damage control to the point that she will spill some actual truth. Keep up the marble-cold facade.


You are so right on the truth slow coming out. I don't even initiate conversation and when she is drilling me to find oout what I know she makes stupid statements like "I knew it was a setup and just played along". She said this out of the blue. I'm thinking, that was some truth coming out, that she had an inappropriate conversation with someone. 
Crazy stuff


----------



## Healer

Stay the course bro - don't let her ridiculous attempts at manipulation mess with you. You are strong and smart and are doing exactly what you should be doing. Press forward, carry on, stay smart, detach and divorce her. 

She is a walking pathology.


----------



## cool12

keep doing what you're doing and it will eventually be behind you.


----------



## Joka

cool12 said:


> keep doing what you're doing and it will eventually be behind you.


Thanks, I figure if I keep walking a straight line eventually I will come out the other side no matter what the outcome


----------



## Marduk

I know a guy that played a similar situation like a boss.

I'm not saying I recommend it, but it worked out for him.

Wife was cheating on him. He found out but wouldn't say how or what he actually knew.

Lots of teary phone calls, texts, emails, etc ensued... she knew she was busted but didn't know how much her husband knew.

After staying dark for a week or two he finally lawyered up and said to his wife that if she signed reasonable separation papers and came 100% clean as a symbolic recognition that she killed the marriage he'd consider staying and working on it.

So she signed the papers. Trickle truthed. He said that he knew there was more, she denied it.

So he said, fine. Let's go to your parents. At least admit to them the small percentage of the truth you just admitted to me so they know I'm not the bad guy in this as we work on it.

So they did. Bawling, she admitted that she "just kissed" another guy and it was her husband's fault too, she was just confused, etc, etc...

He laid out some printouts of her texts describing repeatedly screwing the other guy to her friend, stood up, and walked out the door as her parents read them.

Never spoke to her again.

Again, I'm not recommending this course of action. What I am saying is that staying dark and striking legally first will give you a lot of power and dignity in this situation.

What you decide to do when that is done is up to you.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Joka said:


> You are so right on the truth slow coming out. I don't even initiate conversation and when she is drilling me to find oout what I know she makes stupid statements like "I knew it was a setup and just played along". She said this out of the blue. I'm thinking, that was some truth coming out, that she had an inappropriate conversation with someone.
> Crazy stuff


I don't know if this is the best idea. Others will say what the down side is if so.

If she threatens quitting her job again I'd tell her that if she does, you'll tell everyone about everything that you know.

She seems like a person that would want to save face and have as little of what she did get out to her family and friends. If so, she probably won't call your bluff.

Especially if through, and/or during her job was when she was doing a lot of the cheating. Every time that she went on the road, everyone back at the office would be talking about which of the male counterparts that also went would be having sex with her.

What's the down side to this everyone?


----------



## HarryDoyle

Joka said:


> By the way, those astericks on the title of this thread was supposed to be hawr


I like it the way it is, fill in the blanks. Every time i read about something your ww did or said I just put the appropriate word there. Starting to run out of words though.


----------



## larry.gray

Joka said:


> I don't even initiate conversation and when she is drilling me to find oout what I know she makes stupid statements like "I knew it was a setup and just played along".


A setup for what? It makes no sense to be anything other than what it is. Women who don't cheat don't make jokes about it.


----------



## warlock07

Don't push her to the extreme though. She might become vindictive and difficult during the divorce. Tell her what you have to to get a peaceful and a reasonable divorce. Probably that you can remarry after the divorce and some other bullsh!t. or offer to discuss what you would tell her family

Your goal should be indifference.


----------



## Philat

larry.gray said:


> A setup for what? It makes no sense to be anything other than what it is. Women who don't cheat don't make jokes about it.


She's squirming like crazy to make OP believe that what he knows (which she doesn't know what it is or how he found out--maybe PI?) is because she deliberately fed him disinformation because she KNEW he was somehow listening in. 

Sounds pretty desperate.


----------



## Joka

warlock07 said:


> Don't push her to the extreme though. She might become vindictive and difficult during the divorce. Tell her what you have to to get a peaceful and a reasonable divorce. Probably that you can remarry after the divorce and some other bullsh!t. or offer to discuss what you would tell her family
> 
> Your goal should be indifference.


That is right, my goal IS indifference. It will take some time to get their but in the mean time I will fake it.
I am not going to be pushing her for anything. I know what I know and she keeps bringing it up. You are right, "let me get out of your way so you can move on with your life".


----------



## warlock07

Give her the cliches 

"It has nothing to do with you"

"I need to find myself"


----------



## the guy

Joka said:


> You know, I give a heartfelt Thank You to all that have followed this and responded with your thoughts and advise. I cannot thank you all enough. I would never have thought at the beginning that I would feel this way to a bunch of people that I never met. I guess we have, just not physically. Probably a more deep way too.
> Anyway, it is amazing that for 5 months all I did was have horrific images, movies and thoughts all centered around a self-centered disrespectful person. When I woke up, all day, all night, no matter what I was doing the thoughts were there never leaving me for 1 second. If I laughed at something which was rare I had thoughts running in the back of my mind. Now ever since I told the lawyer to proceed 90% of it went away and I started thinking about me. It is true that you need to focus on yourself in these situations but when you are going through it, it seems impossible. I guess we do but do not know it that is why we come out the end of it still breathing. I am just going to keep going in a straight line and at some point I will be at the other end, a much better place.


worth posting again:smthumbup::iagree:


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Joka said:


> I got up this morning and got out before she did. I got out of the gym and had 2 missed calls and 2 text messages. The I will quit my job (like the job made her do it) I don't want a Divorce and I love you's are flowing. I wish she would just do like she did all last year and verbally beat me up. I am sure it will come.


What happens when you take a toy away from a child? They have a tantrum, become petulant, get angry, blame you and cry. 

Once they realize you have all of the control many beg, plead, cry, apologize, wish they could change the past and act like everything is cool.

Even if she is still cheating, it is different because now because there are consequences. Even if she believes you don't know, sex isn't fun if the cheater is depressed. You know she, her friends and the affair partner discuss her "crappy life" now. if she lied about you it is even worse.

You took her toy (affair) and the fun it brought away.


----------



## the guy

Joka said:


> Here's the deal, I am not playing games and it is not fun. I want to get a divorce as soon as possible with the least confrontation as possible and with as close to as many $$ as I put into everything for the past 13 years... period!
> Confronting her is not necessary..


:iagree:
Why deal with her bull crap.....phuck her she had her chance...what needed to be said was said a long time ago....She just didn't listen or give a damn......who knows or cares

So why would now be any different?

dude stay indifferent, stay dark, and hold on to that 180...it will protect you:smthumbup:


----------



## the guy

warlock07 said:


> Give her the cliches
> 
> "It has nothing to do with you"
> 
> "I need to find myself"


Don't give her a phucking thing......if she asks you the time just point to a clock


----------



## the guy

Disclaimer....warning,rant coming
*******************

These phucking waywards distance them selves from us, leave us in the dark on whats really going on, and tend to make us betrayed the last ones to know whats what.

Now when the tables are turned they get all bent out of shape... now they are in the dark, now they are being pushed away from their "best friend', and now they don't know what the future holds!!!!!!!!

This cheater diserves exactly what OP is dishing out.

Thats my $0.02


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Joka said:


> So she doesn't want a divorce, she misses me but she still looks me in the eyes and bold face lies.


No, on this she told you the 100% truth. She misses you...... *THE OLD YOU. * The one that accepted her lies, didn't question who she screwed, let her travel to her meet ups with minimal questions, the one who would accept her excuses and the guy who kept up the appearances of a good marriage while she partied.

Yes, she really does "miss you."/end sarcasm.

You took her fun away and she is scared.


----------



## the guy

phillybeffandswiss said:


> What happens when you take a toy away from a child? They have a tantrum, become petulant, get angry, blame you and cry.
> 
> Once they realize you have all of the control many beg, plead, cry, apologize, wish they could change the past and act like everything is cool.
> 
> Even if she is still cheating, it is different because now because there are consequences. Even if she believes you don't know, sex isn't fun if the cheater is depressed. You know she, her friends and the affair partner discuss her "crappy life" now. if she lied about you it is even worse.
> 
> You took her toy (affair) and the fun it brought away.


 his old lady had a chance way back when to turn a corner and she didn't . OP didn't take anything away...he just got done dealing with the SOS from his old lady.

My thinking is now that OP is done his old lady now realizes the end game for her sorry @ss.

to bad she didn't feel this way back in Jan. it might have saved her marriage...but noooo she kept screwing around!!!!!!!!


----------



## Joka

the guy said:


> Disclaimer....warning,rant coming
> *******************
> 
> These phucking waywards distance them selves from us, leave us in the dark on whats really going on, and tend to make us betrayed the last ones to know whats what.
> 
> Now when the tables are turned they get all bent out of shape... now they are in the dark, now they are being pushed away from their "best friend', and now they don't know what the future holds!!!!!!!!
> 
> This cheater diserves exactly what OP is dishing out.
> 
> Thats my $0.02


Funny, "Your my best friend", I have heard that phrase several times this loooooong weekend


----------



## Joka

the guy said:


> Disclaimer....warning,rant coming
> *******************
> 
> These phucking waywards distance them selves from us, leave us in the dark on whats really going on, and tend to make us betrayed the last ones to know whats what.
> 
> Now when the tables are turned they get all bent out of shape... now they are in the dark, now they are being pushed away from their "best friend', and now they don't know what the future holds!!!!!!!!
> 
> This cheater diserves exactly what OP is dishing out.
> 
> Thats my $0.02


Nothing like a good phucking rant to get the cobwebs out


----------



## the guy

Your old lady should have quit her job 5 months ago (almost 6)...

Just saying.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

the guy said:


> his old lady had a chance way back when to turn a corner and she didn't .


 Irrelevant to my point. 




> OP didn't take anything away...he just got done dealing with the SOS from his old lady.


 Sure he did, he took away her arrogance, her security and her hold over his life. He took plenty away. She was coasting and he pulled the rug out and she can only guess why. Marriage became a game (toy) and he is taking it away.



> My thinking is now that OP is done his old lady now realizes the end game for her sorry @ss.


 You mean by taking away the marriage that she pretended to cherish? See, he is still taking things away.



> to bad she didn't feel this way back in Jan. it might have saved her marriage...but noooo she kept screwing around!!!!!!!!


If it was January of 2012 I might agree. She never stopped, she just lied.


----------



## alte Dame

Your WW sounds like a serial cheater.

There was a serial cheat on TAM a while ago who gave us a (disturbing) view into the mind of such people.

He said that the two things that a serial cheat needs to support the lifestyle are 1) control, and 2) no consequences.

For you, the consequences are the divorce.

As for control, if you can continue the 180 and are not tempted by her tears, anxiety, and gaslighting, you have your best chance of maintaining control of this outcome.

She will be on and off be in panic mode trying to reestablish control and get you to back off the consequences. If you always remember to use these two parameters to your advantage, she will eventually see that it is unrecoverable. Sadly, it's at this point that the veil may lift and you will see and hear the unvarnished woman. She leads a double life & until now you have only seen the part of herself that she puts on for you.

Your determination not to let her know how you know the truth is excellent. She is definitely trying to bait you into revealing your sources. Remember the famous Woody Allen line, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

Let her stay paranoid. She has every reason to be. You, on the other hand, will eventually be able to fall asleep with a clear conscience.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I agree with alte dame. Serial Cheater.

Room number? I can't wrap my head around that crap. She basically admitted there are more incidents than you know. If you give me a hotel room number, two things are running through my mind:

1) Sex.
2) Pimp robbery Set up.

Both involve an offer of sex.


----------



## Joka

the guy said:


> Your old lady should have quit her job 5 months ago (almost 6)...
> 
> Just saying.


I think longer than that. I always thought it odd that her and her boss talked on the phone for long periods with a lot of laughing and giggling. Very uncommon for an employee boss relationship. My infidelity radar sparked up but at that time I was a committed chump. So we go to a company function and I meet this guy. Right away at first handshake something struck me odd. You know when you can't explain it or even notice it for that matter but something's up. So about 10 minutes later everyone is wondering where is this guy. He left the function alone. At that moment it hit me but It was only intuition but I felt as though I knew. I brought this up to the ww and she immediately pushed it aside. She was so convincing. It still held in the back of my mind though. Wouldn't you know that in my recon as of late I hear her tell someone that he left because I was their. That function was 2 years ago.


----------



## Joka

Joka said:


> I think longer than that. I always thought it odd that her and her boss talked on the phone for long periods with a lot of laughing and giggling. Very uncommon for an employee boss relationship. My infidelity radar sparked up but at that time I was a committed chump. So we go to a company function and I meet this guy. Right away at first handshake something struck me odd. You know when you can't explain it or even notice it for that matter but something's up. So about 10 minutes later everyone is wondering where is this guy. He left the function alone. At that moment it hit me but It was only intuition but I felt as though I knew. I brought this up to the ww and she immediately pushed it aside. She was so convincing. It still held in the back of my mind though. Wouldn't you know that in my recon as of late I hear her tell someone that he left because I was their. That function was 2 years ago.


Oh oh, and just before I heard that she said we don't want to make it out to be bigger than it was.
Chumped again


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Joka said:


> I think longer than that. I always thought it odd that her and her boss talked on the phone for long periods with a lot of laughing and giggling. Very uncommon for an employee boss relationship. My infidelity radar sparked up but at that time I was a committed chump. So we go to a company function and I meet this guy. Right away at first handshake something struck me odd. You know when you can't explain it or even notice it for that matter but something's up. So about 10 minutes later everyone is wondering where is this guy. He left the function alone. At that moment it hit me but It was only intuition but I felt as though I knew. I brought this up to the ww and she immediately pushed it aside. She was so convincing. It still held in the back of my mind though. Wouldn't you know that in my recon as of late I hear her tell someone that he left because I was their. That function was 2 years ago.


I tell you what, if men actually listened to their gut, I bet our rate would be close to 90% like women.



> Oh oh, and just before I heard that she said we don't want to make it out to be bigger than it was.
> Chumped again


Chumped for believing your wife? Not at all. You are chump after you get the proof, still believe the words coming out of a cheaters mouth and they have done NOTHING to prove they are trying to change.


----------



## the guy

I stand corrected!

Sh!t guys, the point is still the same....she phucken blow it when she could have straighten out her crap way back when!

IDK it just gets me she was confronted and continued to screw around....who cares what year it was.


----------



## the guy

I think we can all agree to hit the "like button' on how OP is dealing with his old lady.

ENLESS SOME ONE WANTS TO CORRECT ME AGAIN


----------



## Decorum

Joka said:


> I think longer than that. I always thought it odd that her and her boss talked on the phone for long periods with a lot of laughing and giggling. Very uncommon for an employee boss relationship. My infidelity radar sparked up but at that time I was a committed chump. So we go to a company function and I meet this guy. Right away at first handshake something struck me odd. You know when you can't explain it or even notice it for that matter but something's up. So about 10 minutes later everyone is wondering where is this guy. He left the function alone. At that moment it hit me but It was only intuition but I felt as though I knew. I brought this up to the ww and she immediately pushed it aside. She was so convincing. It still held in the back of my mind though. Wouldn't you know that in my recon as of late I hear her tell someone that he left because I was their. That function was 2 years ago.


Shaking my head, its not your fault we tend to give unquestioning trust to the ones we love.
They take advantage of that trust. Your relationships will be different going forward.

You are going to feel very conflicted from time to time by your "feelings" for her, please be strong.

There are different kinds of love all going on at the same time.
Some of it is the chemical bonding that takes place in the brain, that can trigger and leave you wondering why you even feel that way. That bonding will diminish in time.

The cognitive love is a thoughtful love, you will struggle with this as you continue to accept your "new" perspective of her.

Honestly as your respect for her slips away more and more so will this love, and you will truly be able to move on at some point

You will be left with a sibling like love for her, you will still care but it will not have a romantic element.

Seeing her will be like visiting your delinquent and unremorseful meth-addicted sister in prison, "I'm innocent, I'm innocent". After you get control over the anger you will only feel pity for her.

I am glad to hear you have found some support and spiritual renewal.
I really wish you well Joka you deserve better.
Take care.


----------



## Joka

Decorum said:


> Shaking my head, its not your fault we tend to give unquestioning trust to the ones we love.
> They take advantage of that trust. Your relationships will be different going forward.
> 
> You are going to feel very conflicted from time to time by your "feelings" for her, please be strong.
> 
> There are different kinds of love all going on at the same time.
> Some of it is the chemical bonding that takes place in the brain, that can trigger and leave you wondering why you even feel that way. That bonding will diminish in time.
> 
> The cognitive love is a thoughtful love, you will struggle with this as you continue to accept your "new" perspective of her.
> 
> Honestly as your respect for her slips away more and more so will this love, and you will truly be able to move on at some point
> 
> You will be left with a sibling like love for her, you will still care but it will not have a romantic element.
> 
> Seeing her will be like visiting your delinquent and unremorseful meth-addicted sister in prison, "I'm innocent, I'm innocent". After you get control over the anger you will only feel pity for her.
> 
> I am glad to hear you have found some support and spiritual renewal.
> I really wish you well Joka you deserve better.
> Take care.


Thank you - Spot on!


----------



## the guy

Of course Decorum is spot on...just look at the avitar...it has wisdom written all over it.


----------



## Divinely Favored

A set up? Playing along! She was up to no good during her trip she just returned from when you filed!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JustGrinding

Back to the pertinent point at hand:

Joka, she's pulling every emotionally manipulative tactic in the book to try to get a clue on 1) how much you know, and 2) (most importantly) how you found out.

Stay ahead of her mentally and emotionally. Stay the course, bro!


----------



## Joka

JustGrinding said:


> Back to the pertinent point at hand:
> 
> Joka, she's pulling every emotionally manipulative tactic in the book to try to get a clue on 1) how much you know, and 2) (most importantly) how you found out.
> 
> Stay ahead of her mentally and emotionally. Stay the course, bro!


Don't you know it. I am doing my best. She keeps texting me "Love you" and such. I just do not respond at all and stay out of the house till near bedtime.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Interesting. Now, if you look back when your gut first warned you, I bet most of the "I love you" comments were mainly one way and it started with you?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Yeah your responses should be you love but not enough to stay faithful


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Don't you know it. I am doing my best. She keeps texting me "Love you" and such. I just do not respond at all and stay out of the house till near bedtime.


The more she gets you to talk the more she breaks you down. You risk having empathy for her as "your wife" and softening up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cool12

Joka said:


> Don't you know it. I am doing my best. She keeps texting me "Love you" and such. I just do not respond at all and stay out of the house till near bedtime.



wow. she really thinks she's all that!

she just wants to do the bare minimum for the maximum reward. so glad you're not letting her get away with such lame ass sh1t.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> The more she gets you to talk the more she breaks you down. You risk having empathy for her as "your wife" and softening up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Trvion you just hit on my biggest fear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

Joka said:


> Trvion you just hit on my biggest fear.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That has always been one of her tactics when was ever upset at her in the past.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> That has always been one of her tactics when was ever upset at her in the past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe we have some psychologist, police, FBI or pi interrogaters on here. There is energy and emotion transfer that occurs when you communicate. That was your wife, its not anymore by ger choices and you have to remember that. If you ever gave your evidence card she would try to explain it and your brain will try to give her explanation credibility. You love her you trusted her tones of voice can bring thst out. You risk a multiyear torment where you slip further behind like most of the guys on here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> Maybe we have some psychologist, police, FBI or pi interrogaters on here. There is energy and emotion transfer that occurs when you communicate. That was your wife, its not anymore by ger choices and you have to remember that. If you ever gave your evidence card she would try to explain it and your brain will try to give her explanation credibility. You love her you trusted her tones of voice can bring thst out. You risk a multiyear torment where you slip further behind like most of the guys on here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I truly believe what you just said. 
I read way too many posts of people in R 3, 4, 5 years or more out and they all had a similar theme, they have never really gotten over the A. That was a big factor in my decision. I did not want to always have this monkey on my back.


----------



## Lostinthought61

You know there is you way to shut her up....tell her if she loved you she would be willing to take a polygraph.....you know she won't and that will stop that.


----------



## Turin74

Xenote said:


> You know there is you way to shut her up....tell her if she loved you she would be willing to take a polygraph.....you know she won't and that will stop that.


No way! Because she'll take it... and pass (most likely 'inconclusive'). OP is on the right path with silence imho

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> I truly believe what you just said.
> I read way too many posts of people in R 3, 4, 5 years or more out and they all had a similar theme, they have never really gotten over the A. That was a big factor in my decision. I did not want to always have this monkey on my back.


And that monkey is a two ton gorilla. It will affect all of your life, your health, your relationships, possibly even your career. Youve been one of the wisest ones here. Enjoy your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 6301

Joka said:


> Trvion you just hit on my biggest fear.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Then what you do is this. Find a place where you can be alone and listen to the tapes you have of her and her lies, and her deceit, and her betrayal and her dishonesty and that should bring you back to earth. 

When you here her talk to you just remember all she has done and you'll soon see that it isn't your wife but your enemy number one.


----------



## Joka

6301 said:


> Then what you do is this. Find a place where you can be alone and listen to the tapes you have of her and her lies, and her deceit, and her betrayal and her dishonesty and that should bring you back to earth.
> 
> When you here her talk to you just remember all she has done and you'll soon see that it isn't your wife but your enemy number one.


That would do it for sure. Whenever I feel not sure of what I am doing I run them in my head just to keep myself on course. Works every time.


----------



## X-B

Joka said:


> I truly believe what you just said.
> I read way too many posts of people in R 3, 4, 5 years or more out and they all had a similar theme, they have never really gotten over the A. That was a big factor in my decision. I did not want to always have this monkey on my back.


I have thought of this. It is like having a car with a salvage title. It may look good and drive good but you will always know it is tainted.


----------



## Openminded

Her plan is to get you past this, with the marriage intact, and return to her life as usual. She's played you before and thinks it will work again. Don't let it. You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of this if you do.


----------



## lordmayhem

Any plans for exposing her and OM? Because if not, there should be.


----------



## BobSimmons

The anger will subside the more she's being nicey wifey. You maybe deadset to D but there is always a silver of R tucked away in the heart. This is normal and natural, you still love your wife in some capacity and part of you will want to fix this, fix her, reclaim her.

As long as you're living together I can almost guarantee you will slip up from time to time, again this is natural.


----------



## lordmayhem

It's the emotional roller coaster, and the ride is just beginning. When you're on top, you feel strong, that you can move forward and get along without her, when you're on the bottom though....watch out. Then you will feel weak, you feel you still love her and start to fall for the crocodile tears. 

Follow the advice given already, because you're going to need it when you're in the low point of the roller coaster.


----------



## treyvion

lordmayhem said:


> It's the emotional roller coaster, and the ride is just beginning. When you're on top, you feel strong, that you can move forward and get along without her, when you're on the bottom though....watch out. Then you will feel weak, you feel you still love her and start to fall for the crocodile tears.
> 
> Follow the advice given already, because you're going to need it when you're in the low point of the roller coaster.


Thats why its easier to pull away and never look back. Life is great when you drop people working against you. Imagine if a male betrayed you as badly, had been stealing money and credit from you over the years and putting you in harms way all along. Youd drop that dude might even kick his a$$ or have him put in jail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

Openminded, Lordmayhem, bBb Simmons, Treyvion, do you guys have a drone following me. Last night I went to bed, guest room, she comes in a few minutes later talking very sweet and calm, not her usual self unless she wants something. So she reiterates that she does not want a divorce and says she doesn't like sleeping alone. Of course I couldn't resist and my comment was "I know that". She didn't think that was called for and usually she would fly off the handle but she stayed really sweet. So she starts hugging me and rubbing my chest. I lied there doing nothing, body stiff as a board. Inside I just wanted to take her but it would derail everything and I would be back to square one. Plus when I got back on track she would continually throw it in my face. So nothing happened. I can predict the future, she will get tired of this and start to move on and because I am kind of enjoying her chase me for once it will hurt when she does start to pull away. It's coming soon.


----------



## Openminded

Smiling. No drone. We've seen this same story play out a million times.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Openminded, Lordmayhem, bBb Simmons, Treyvion, do you guys have a drone following me. Last night I went to bed, guest room, she comes in a few minutes later talking very sweet and calm, not her usual self unless she wants something. So she reiterates that she does not want a divorce and says she doesn't like sleeping alone. Of course I couldn't resist and my comment was "I know that". She didn't think that was called for and usually she would fly off the handle but she stayed really sweet. So she starts hugging me and rubbing my chest. I lied there doing nothing, body stiff as a board. Inside I just wanted to take her but it would derail everything and I would be back to square one. Plus when I got back on track she would continually throw it in my face. So nothing happened. I can predict the future, she will get tired of this and start to move on and because I am kind of enjoying her chase me for once it will hurt when she does start to pull away. It's coming soon.


Were not guessing. Weve all done it, and.most of us have been stupid allowing them back in our head. Id stay somewhere else during most of it. None of the interactions help your case. Its not your wife, its a single babe who promised excusitivity and you found is banging several others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

Da faq??? Lock the door.


----------



## turnera

Joka said:


> I can predict the future, she will get tired of this and start to move on and because I am kind of enjoying her chase me for once it will hurt when she does start to pull away. It's coming soon.


We can predict better than you can. Before she 'moves on,' expect the anger phase, and expect the set you up phase...to get what she wants - all her cake. Where is your VAR when she comes in the room, if you can't lock the door?


----------



## Philat

Joka, just as a recap please confirm:

The only A your wife knows you know about is the 2-month-long one you confronted on in January 2014.

There was another one about 7 years ago.

There is another one going on now, confirmed by VAR.

Is this correct?


----------



## Joka

Philat said:


> Joka, just as a recap please confirm:
> 
> The only A your wife knows you know about is the 2-month-long one you confronted on in January 2014.
> 
> There was another one about 7 years ago.
> 
> There is another one going on now, confirmed by VAR.
> 
> Is this correct?


Not quite. I will go backwards in time:
2 month long confirmed and confessed to Oct & Nov 2013. Found out in January 2014

Somewhere under a year 2013 maybe the end of 2012 into 2013. Have some proof I can show but can be explained away to some degree. VAR confirmed.

Some time 2 years ago with bossman, I think this was very short. VAR confirmed

Maybe even with her ex, I have always had some suspicion.
Just my gut.

Sometime around 7 years ago with another bossman from another company. Maybe before or just after marriage. VAR confirmed.
With all this I am sure there were others. There had to be.


----------



## Ripper

I've said it before, you should just be able to get an annulment for this kind of crap.

Did she have her fingers crossed when she took the vows?


----------



## Healer

Joka said:


> Openminded, Lordmayhem, bBb Simmons, Treyvion, do you guys have a drone following me. Last night I went to bed, guest room, she comes in a few minutes later talking very sweet and calm, not her usual self unless she wants something. So she reiterates that she does not want a divorce and says she doesn't like sleeping alone. Of course I couldn't resist and my comment was "I know that". She didn't think that was called for and usually she would fly off the handle but she stayed really sweet. So she starts hugging me and rubbing my chest. I lied there doing nothing, body stiff as a board. Inside I just wanted to take her but it would derail everything and I would be back to square one. Plus when I got back on track she would continually throw it in my face. So nothing happened. I can predict the future, she will get tired of this and start to move on and because I am kind of enjoying her chase me for once it will hurt when she does start to pull away. It's coming soon.


CAREFUL - you're in dangerous territory here. Don't let her seduce you brother! You will lose ALL your power and be back to square one. Keep listening to those VARs, either literally or playback in your head. Hold steady!!


----------



## Joka

Healer said:


> CAREFUL - you're in dangerous territory here. Don't let her seduce you brother! You will lose ALL your power and be back to square one. Keep listening to those VARs, either literally or playback in your head. Hold steady!!


Yes, I have to make this happen. It is my goal to get divorced.


----------



## weightlifter

What is the timeline for the required 1 year separation?


----------



## Thor

Note that in some states it is considered by the court to be forgiveness if you have sex with her after finding out about her infidelity. Thus you lose any legal advantage you have if in your location the infidelity can affect the divorce settlement at all.

For example, you can document an affair 7 years ago. Perhaps in the divorce settlement you could exclude gains in your retirement savings or growth in value on the house you owned before you were married. But if you have sex with her, the court will give her half of everything you have today.

If alimony is a legal possibility, you would reset the clock to the full length of your marriage. But if you could prove she was cheating 7 years ago, it might void any claim of alimony. But if you have sex with her, you forgive her for cheating and you would owe her alimony.

Don't have sex with her! For your own emotional health, your physical health, and your legal health.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Joka, you have more will power than me. I'm not talking about her coming on to you for sex either. I'm talking about biting my tongue and not throwing barbs every time she says some thing like "she doesn't like sleeping alone".

I would have said some thing more like "No kidding, whether we were together, or apart, you never ""slept alone"".

Keep listening to and re-playing those VARS in your mind. She's going to try to schmooze you a few more times before she gets to the anger stage.

I'd think about changing the door knob on your bedroom to an "external" one. It can only be opened by the key(no safety hole in the other side to unlock in case of accidental/kid locking).

You need to keep her out of your bedroom, at ALL costs.


----------



## ReidWright

are the VARs still in place?

you might pick up her strategy, or any of her nefarious plans against you in the upcoming divorce.


----------



## Marduk

Dude, do not let her cuddle up to you again.

IT SCREWS WITH YOUR HEAD AND SHE KNOWS IT.

How do you think she gets with all these guys? By screwing with their head (and then their bodies).

Remember how many times she has disrespected you and your marriage. Remember how many dudes have screwed your wife. Remember all the kinky stuff she has willingly done with these guys.

Lock the door or move out.

Go completely 100% black as the blackest night pitch black on her.

Oh, and STD test.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

marduk said:


> *Dude, do not let her cuddle up to you again.*
> 
> IT SCREWS WITH YOUR HEAD AND SHE KNOWS IT.
> 
> How do you think she gets with all these guys? By screwing with their head (and then their bodies).
> 
> Remember how many times she has disrespected you and your marriage. Remember how many dudes have screwed your wife. Remember all the kinky stuff she has willingly done with these guys.
> 
> Lock the door or move out.
> 
> Go completely 100% black as the blackest night pitch black on her.
> 
> Oh, and STD test.


Good point!

When she pulls this crap again, just think of how many other men have got the same, OR BETTER, treatment from her. And with them it was most likely after they had sex with her.

I can only imaging how many OM's there were... This rabbit hole runs deep and long. I actually think it's better if you never find out how many OM's she's had sex with.

I'd just throw that thought overboard right behind her and keep sailing on.


----------



## Healer

Seconded for locking your door. Even if you don't let her seduce you, her physical touch, cuddling, rubbing your chest - she is manipulating you and stealing your power. And she knows it - she knows exactly what she's doing man. Make it easy on yourself and deny her access.


----------



## manticore

Joka said:


> Not quite. I will go backwards in time:
> 2 month long confirmed and confessed to Oct & Nov 2013. Found out in January 2014
> 
> Somewhere under a year 2013 maybe the end of 2012 into 2013. Have some proof I can show but can be explained away to some degree. VAR confirmed.
> 
> Some time 2 years ago with bossman, I think this was very short. VAR confirmed
> 
> Maybe even with her ex, *I have always had some suspicion.
> Just my gut.*
> 
> Sometime around 7 years ago with another bossman from another company. Maybe before or just after marriage. VAR confirmed.
> With all this I am sure there were others. There had to be.


dude with this record whatever your gut is telling is most likely truth, she is a serial cheater, this is the kind cases where is even hard to blame the OMs because most likely she was the agressor (sure they are POS that need to be exposed to at least their wives, but obviously she was not a victim of so many masters of manipulation).

you are doing the right thing by divorcing her, she is just not suited for marriage, maybe for a open marriage but she probably is the kind of cheater that enjoy having sexual scapades but love having at home a loyal loving Bs ready to cover all their emotional needs.

Don't give up to her advances, you deserve someone that share the same values you hold in high regard (I am talking about loyalty of course).


----------



## Joka

Thank you for all the support. It is greatly appreciated and the reminders are just what I need at times. She DOES know what she is doing. I just can't get my head wrapped around how people you think you know can do this junk.


----------



## cool12

she sounds like a woman used to getting her way. she believes she can fvck other men then rub your chest, cuddle up and you'll forgive her till next time she's caught cheating. 


she gives those of us that use our feminine ways for good a bad name.


----------



## mahike

Boy she is a real cake eater. She wants your stability so she can have her flings. Sorry man that must have been tough.

Lock and bolt the door and buy some noise canceling headphones


----------



## treyvion

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Good point!
> 
> When she pulls this crap again, just think of how many other men have got the same, OR BETTER, treatment from her. And with them it was most likely after they had sex with her.
> 
> I can only imaging how many OM's there were... This rabbit hole runs deep and long. I actually think it's better if you never find out how many OM's she's had sex with.
> 
> I'd just throw that thought overboard right behind her and keep sailing on.


It could have been trains, multiple dudes knocking on the door in one night every couple of hours, all kind of unprotected sex and sex acts you never ever recieved yourself. Plus they could've degraded and debased her and she enjoyed it.

I think she was enjoying the "single but married" lifestyle.


----------



## Joka

cool12 said:


> she sounds like a woman used to getting her way. she believes she can fvck other men then rub your chest, cuddle up and you'll forgive her till next time she's caught cheating.
> 
> 
> she gives those of us that use our feminine ways for good a bad name.


I am trying not to paint a broad brush and be bitter. I am trying real hard.


----------



## Marduk

Joka said:


> Thank you for all the support. It is greatly appreciated and the reminders are just what I need at times. She DOES know what she is doing. I just can't get my head wrapped around how people you think you know can do this junk.


Let go of what you WANT to be true and accept what IS true.

Here's my read on her goals

1. to keep you supporting her (financially/her self-image/her reputation/emotionally)
2. while she screws as many other dudes as she can (serial cheaters are predatory on other people and want to keep the spouse there so they can keep up appearances so they can move onto the next one)

That's her goal. To keep it going another day, another month, another year.

How you feel about it is secondary. Being deceitful is secondary. Being dishonourable is secondary. It may not even enter into her mental equation, or she may be delusional or wrapped up in so much rationalization or self-denial she may be compartmentalizing screwing one dude, coming home to her husband like there's nothing wrong, then going out and screwing the next dude the next day.

She may think her marriage has nothing to do with her sex life.

Realize her goal is to keep you deluded and in the dark so you give her what she wants.

Once you realize that, her actions will make sense, and you will learn to expect them.


----------



## Marduk

Joka said:


> I am trying not to paint a broad brush and be bitter. I am trying real hard.


Anger at her is not the same as bitterness towards women.

Not all women are like that.

Get angry and use it as a source of strength.

Rage carried my through my first divorce. I would not have survived without it.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> I am trying not to paint a broad brush and be bitter. I am trying real hard.


You don't have to be mad or bitter or even non-feeling. You can be HAPPY!. I know it sucks that it happened, but happy to unload it.


----------



## Forest

treyvion said:


> Maybe we have some psychologist, police, FBI or pi interrogaters on here. There is energy and emotion transfer that occurs when you communicate. That was your wife, its not anymore by ger choices and you have to remember that. If you ever gave your evidence card she would try to explain it and your brain will try to give her explanation credibility. You love her you trusted her tones of voice can bring thst out. You risk a multiyear torment where you slip further behind like most of the guys on here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Never mentioned this before, but I was a police officer in a large city for 25 years. Never worked as a detective, but there are a few universal things all police learn, especially working nights.

Guilty, scumbag people can eventually convince themselves they are innocent. Either thru a trick of the mind "I didn't do it", or twist of the circumstances "society/The Man/the cops/the drugs/the poverty/etc made me do it.

Guilty people sleep, innocent people do not. The surest test as to whether you've got your culprit is to leave him alone awhile. If he falls asleep, he's guilty. Innocent people Do Not sleep when stressed. Everyone here experienced that?

There are all kinds of interrogation techniques that you can surely look up. Eye movements: if you look up, or right, you are recalling. Look down, or left (I think) you are creating. Obviously consistent inability to look an accuser in the eye is viewed as deceptive.

Body language is another old time indicator. Crossed arms, legs, leaning forward is defensive, sitting back is open.

Some very interesting stuff about out there about statements. For instance the statements, "in all honesty" or "to tell you the truth" often precede lies.

Shock and disbelief are hard to fake. Usually looks over the top, phony.

Trust is deadly. If you trust or believe in someone, you empower and invite them to pull the wool over your eyes.


----------



## Mostlycontent

Forest said:


> Never mentioned this before, but I was a police officer in a large city for 25 years. Never worked as a detective, but there are a few universal things all police learn, especially working nights.
> 
> Guilty, scumbag people can eventually convince themselves they are innocent. Either thru a trick of the mind "I didn't do it", or twist of the circumstances "society/The Man/the cops/the drugs/the poverty/etc made me do it.
> 
> Guilty people sleep, innocent people do not. The surest test as to whether you've got your culprit is to leave him alone awhile. If he falls asleep, he's guilty. Innocent people Do Not sleep when stressed. Everyone here experienced that?
> 
> There are all kinds of interrogation techniques that you can surely look up. Eye movements: if you look up, or right, you are recalling. Look down, or left (I think) you are creating. Obviously consistent inability to look an accuser in the eye is viewed as deceptive.
> 
> Body language is another old time indicator. Crossed arms, legs, leaning forward is defensive, sitting back is open.
> 
> Some very interesting stuff about out there about statements. For instance the statements, "in all honesty" or "to tell you the truth" often precede lies.
> 
> Shock and disbelief are hard to fake. Usually looks over the top, phony.
> 
> Trust is deadly. If you trust or believe in someone, you empower and invite them to pull the wool over your eyes.


Yep, that's called situational ethics. It's disgusting. If you don't want to take responsibility for your own actions, then situations and circumstances is how you have to roll.

As for the other stuff, I'm leery of the whole body language science as I think it has a lot of flaws in it. For example, when someone leans forward, it could also mean that they are really engaged or forthcoming. I know I do that but of course, probably not in an interrogation scenario so maybe it's different there.

I also say things like, "in all candor" or "in all honesty" frequently. After that, I feel more free to express my true thoughts. It's usually said when you expect that the other person may not like what you're going to say. Again, this is not in an interrogation setting so perhaps it is different. 

Hopefully, they don't teach our police folks that everyone who says that, no matter the setting, is lying because that would be untrue. Anyway, that's some good stuff to know none-the-less.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Thank you for all the support. It is greatly appreciated and the reminders are just what I need at times. She DOES know what she is doing. I just can't get my head wrapped around how people you think you know can do this junk.


Yes she does. She's baiting you like a fish homie.


----------



## Philat

Joka said:


> Not quite. I will go backwards in time:
> 2 month long confirmed and confessed to Oct & Nov 2013. Found out in January 2014
> 
> Somewhere under a year 2013 maybe the end of 2012 into 2013. Have some proof I can show but can be explained away to some degree. VAR confirmed.
> 
> Some time 2 years ago with bossman, I think this was very short. VAR confirmed
> 
> Maybe even with her ex, I have always had some suspicion.
> Just my gut.
> 
> Sometime around 7 years ago with another bossman from another company. Maybe before or just after marriage. VAR confirmed.
> With all this I am sure there were others. There had to be.


So as far as you can tell nothing going on at the present moment? What were you referring to in your first post--I took it to mean you had VAR evidence of an ongoing affair.


----------



## Joka

Philat said:


> So as far as you can tell nothing going on at the present moment? What were you referring to in your first post--I took it to mean you had VAR evidence of an ongoing affair.


Oh, that was an about to be affair. It looked her next mark


----------



## cool12

Joka said:


> I am trying not to paint a broad brush and be bitter. I am trying real hard.



if anger and bitterness will prevent her from seducing you and lulling you back in to a life of disrespect and cheating, use them.


----------



## alte Dame

Serial cheaters are generally consummate actors with their spouses, but are their honest selves with their APs. This means that what you heard on the VAR is your W in her most natural, most comfortable state.

If you stick to your guns and stay with the 180, she will probably eventually decide that the two of you are over and you will finally, perhaps for the first time, see the real her. She will have nothing left to lose with you, so you will witness another person, usu. a coarser, more disrespectful person with features you would never find attractive. That is, of course, why she hides them from you.

For now, she will keep up the sugar-sweet act as long as she thinks she has a chance of snowing you again. 

You really need to stay strong here. Don't give her the slightest 'in.'


----------



## Joka

alte Dame said:


> Serial cheaters are generally consummate actors with their spouses, but are their honest selves with their APs. This means that what you heard on the VAR is your W in her most natural, most comfortable state.
> 
> If you stick to your guns and stay with the 180, she will probably eventually decide that the two of you are over and you will finally, perhaps for the first time, see the real her. She will have nothing left to lose with you, so you will witness another person, usu. a coarser, more disrespectful person with features you would never find attractive. That is, of course, why she hides them from you.
> 
> For now, she will keep up the sugar-sweet act as long as she thinks she has a chance of snowing you again.
> 
> You really need to stay strong here. Don't give her the slightest 'in.'


Wow! Never thought of it that way. Sounds about right.


----------



## Marduk

cool12 said:


> if anger and bitterness will prevent her from seducing you and lulling you back in to a life of disrespect and cheating, use them.


Agree.

Anger is not always negative. It's in how you respond to it, how you use it that makes it positive or negative.

Anger that forces action -- in this case forcing self-preservation -- is positive.

For me in my divorce, everything changed when I got angry. Everything.

The sadness, the fear, the anxiety... gone.

Replaced by white hot rage and an insistance that I not only survive, that I _thrive_.

Why?

Because screw her, that's why.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Joka said:


> Wow! Never thought of it that way. Sounds about right.


Oh yes, you are experiencing the calm before the storm.

When she flips, it will be sudden, it will be hard and she'll probably say things that you never thought you'd ever hear her say.

She will hit you with half truths and start accusing you of things you didn't do. This is an attempt to get you to snap, so you will blurt out in anger some of what you know. Maybe even how you found out about it.

If she can figure out what you know, then she can start working on damage control. Think up excuses and reasons to explain why you *think* she did what you said she did.

Don't fall for it. If you give her any names, dates, or times, she will have multiple excuses ready for when family, freinds, or coworkers ask about it.

Even if she threatens to quit her job again, DON'T GIVE HER ANY INFO(I know I suggested saying that you might tell her that you will out her at work, if she quits. I've re-thunk this). You'll just be helping her when she tries a to blow a smoke when people ask her why she's getting/gotten a D. screen


----------



## Joka

No text messages. No phone calls. Could this be tbe changing point. Maybe. I will see when I get home
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JustGrinding

Joka said:


> No text messages. No phone calls. Could this be tbe changing point. Maybe. I will see when I get home
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her last attempt at regaining control of you failed, so she's changing tactics. DO NOT RELINQUISH STRATEGIC CONTROL!

Strong. Silent. Resolved.

Stay the course, bro!


----------



## BobSimmons

Might I add. 

You don't know where "it" has been or whom "it" has been with. Before you succumb to her new found interest in you, you just might need to get tested after.


----------



## treyvion

JustGrinding said:


> Her last attempt at regaining control of you failed, so she's changing tactics. DO NOT RELINQUISH STRATEGIC CONTROL!
> 
> Strong. Silent. Resolved.
> 
> Stay the course, bro!


She will argue, she will cry, she will ask you to help her with things, she will lie, she will volunteer info, all of this to open you up and gain control. 

It's nothing new, it's what they do. She's been building up this cheating monster for several years now, and it has grown smarter, faster and stronger over time.

It will not unravel in a short period of time, it takes years and they need a real good reason to do it, like one of their OM tried to kill them or something.

Outside of that, your most likely hosed with the typical WAW situation where you lose respect over time and it bleeds to every compartment of your life.

A quick and clean snip with little to no communication and getting on with your life, will allow you to re-utilize time and focus on her on what you need to be doing with your life.


----------



## treyvion

treyvion said:


> She will argue, she will cry, she will ask you to help her with things, she will lie, she will volunteer info, all of this to open you up and gain control.
> 
> It's nothing new, it's what they do. She's been building up this cheating monster for several years now, and it has grown smarter, faster and stronger over time.
> 
> It will not unravel in a short period of time, it takes years and they need a real good reason to do it, like one of their OM tried to kill them or something.
> 
> Outside of that, your most likely hosed with the typical WAW situation where you lose respect over time and it bleeds to every compartment of your life.
> 
> A quick and clean snip with little to no communication and getting on with your life, will allow you to re-utilize time and focus on her on what you need to be doing with your life.


One of my boys was giving kudo's about his girlfriend from canada for a few months... They were moving in together. He wasn't sure at first, but grew motivated over time. Then he found out, she betrayed him badly, she snapped photos of his check stubs from work and his accounts in attempt to mess with his money.

He dropped her immediately, nothing to talk about. After 10 days instead of slinking into a depression, he went out to one of the groups he hangs with. It was a lady there he was familiar with, that started talking to him.

That night, she needed a ride home and he dropped her off. He said she hugged and held on a little long, but he didn't want to do anything being so freshly out of a relationship.

He said it happened again and then she tried to pull his pants down.

It happened one more time after 21 days and he let it happen. They've been doing it all most every day since.

He said that was the single most important thing that got his mind off of the negative event with the ex. A new friend, spending this great time and getting on with his life.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> One of my boys was giving kudo's about his girlfriend from canada for a few months... They were moving in together. He wasn't sure at first, but grew motivated over time. Then he found out, she betrayed him badly, she snapped photos of his check stubs from work and his accounts in attempt to mess with his money.
> 
> He dropped her immediately, nothing to talk about. After 10 days instead of slinking into a depression, he went out to one of the groups he hangs with. It was a lady there he was familiar with, that started talking to him.
> 
> That night, she needed a ride home and he dropped her off. He said she hugged and held on a little long, but he didn't want to do anything being so freshly out of a relationship.
> 
> He said it happened again and then she tried to pull his pants down.
> 
> It happened one more time after 21 days and he let it happen. They've been doing it all most every day since.
> 
> He said that was the single most important thing that got his mind off of the negative event with the ex. A new friend, spending this great time and getting on with his life.


A new friend would definetly be cool but I intend to stay clean through this so I have less to defend myself on. I dont even want to be seen for coffee with anyone. There isnt anyone now so any accusations will be completely false.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

treyvion said:


> One of my boys was giving kudo's about his girlfriend from canada for a few months... They were moving in together. He wasn't sure at first, but grew motivated over time. Then he found out, she betrayed him badly, she snapped photos of his check stubs from work and his accounts in attempt to mess with his money.
> 
> He dropped her immediately, nothing to talk about. After 10 days instead of slinking into a depression, he went out to one of the groups he hangs with. It was a lady there he was familiar with, that started talking to him.
> 
> That night, she needed a ride home and he dropped her off. He said she hugged and held on a little long, but he didn't want to do anything being so freshly out of a relationship.
> 
> He said it happened again and then she tried to pull his pants down.
> 
> It happened one more time after 21 days and he let it happen. They've been doing it all most every day since.
> 
> He said that was the single most important thing that got his mind off of the negative event with the ex. A new friend, spending this great time and getting on with his life.


Some times when you play real hard to get, They just HAVE to, HAVE you.


----------



## Psych

I can't add too much to this thread because so many have done so well in expressing a solid course to follow... So instead I'll just say

Joke, I admire your resolve and strength. Keep it up. Remember you are worth more than what you're getting. You don't need her to validate you. You are better than that. Stay strong.


----------



## Marduk

Joka said:


> No text messages. No phone calls. Could this be tbe changing point. Maybe. I will see when I get home
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Next will come anger or some kind of tactical nuclear response I'm thinking.

Shields at maximum.


----------



## treyvion

Psych said:


> I can't add too much to this thread because so many have done so well in expressing a solid course to follow... So instead I'll just say
> 
> Joke, I admire your resolve and strength. Keep it up. Remember you are worth more than what you're getting. You don't need her to validate you. You are better than that. Stay strong.


Hes been doing excellent. Thing about it is he didnt know his curiousity could get him nor his soft spots for his what used to be his wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Psych

I remember reading a post a while back here that said something to the effect that, your wife as you know it is dead. The life you knew is dead, the person has been replaced with a clone with who looks just like your wife, but is an entirely different person. 

I would imagine you'd have to think that to keep from falling back into the lies. 

I'll agree, Joka is doing a great job, however all it takes is a moment of weakness to undo the progress. Gotta stay positive and strong.


----------



## Joka

Psych said:


> I remember reading a post a while back here that said something to the effect that, your wife as you know it is dead. The life you knew is dead, the person has been replaced with a clone with who looks just like your wife, but is an entirely different person.
> 
> I would imagine you'd have to think that to keep from falling back into the lies.
> 
> I'll agree, Joka is doing a great job, however all it takes is a moment of weakness to undo the progress. Gotta stay positive and strong.


For me that quote does not fit. She was never replaced. I have come to find out that she has always been this way but has hidden it from me. So the chump that I was, (was the operative word), never really new what I had married. A true blue serial cheating cake eater.


----------



## Philat

_*Originally Posted by Psych*
I remember reading a post a while back here that said something to the effect that, your wife as you know it is dead. The life you knew is dead, the person has been replaced with a clone with who looks just like your wife, but is an entirely different person. _



Joka said:


> For me that quote does not fit. She was never replaced. I have come to find out that she has always been this way but has hidden it from me. So the chump that I was, (was the operative word), never really new what I had married. A true blue serial cheating cake eater.


Same result in the end.


----------



## lordmayhem

Joka said:


> For me that quote does not fit. She was never replaced. I have come to find out that she has always been this way but has hidden it from me. So the chump that I was, (was the operative word), never really new what I had married. A true blue serial cheating cake eater.


 










Those are the most devious and selfish types. But the WAW/WAH who have the exit affairs are the nastiest. They do every single thing they can to hurt their BS on their way out the door. Cake eaters smile and pretend to be nice because they want their cake and eat it too. But they can turn nasty once they realize that the cake eating is coming to an end. Then they immediately go in search of a chump.

Wayward husbands in general seem to fit into this category more often.


----------



## Squeakr

Excuse my ignorance, but what does the A stand for in WAW, and WAH, as I am drawing a blank at the moment?


----------



## turnera

walk away wife/husband - as in, you just walk away from your marriage instead of staying and fixing it.


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> walk away wife/husband - as in, you just walk away from your marriage instead of staying and fixing it.


Thanks. I thought it had something to do with exit A's but wasn't sure. This makes sense (and yes I looked around but couldn't find a definition, it is not in the beginner's thread either).


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> For me that quote does not fit. She was never replaced. I have come to find out that she has always been this way but has hidden it from me. So the chump that I was, (was the operative word), never really new what I had married. A true blue serial cheating cake eater.


Imagine if you where chosen for this purpose from the get go? A responsible and loving husband to help take care of her while she maintains a promiscous lifestyle hidden in secret. Some of them know this going in, that they are going to keep doing that stuff.


----------



## treyvion

lordmayhem said:


> Those are the most devious and selfish types. But the WAW/WAH who have the exit affairs are the nastiest. They do every single thing they can to hurt their BS on their way out the door. Cake eaters smile and pretend to be nice because they want their cake and eat it too. But they can turn nasty once they realize that the cake eating is coming to an end. Then they immediately go in search of a chump.
> 
> Wayward husbands in general seem to fit into this category more often.


Thing about it is a BH or BW might not understand how the cake eating wife or husband can be so evil and nasty and literally act like they don't care about them at all... When they never did. Sometimes they never loved them, a purpose was suited, and you may as well been a dressed thanksgiving turkey laying in the bed next to them.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> Thing about it is a BH or BW might not understand how the cake eating wife or husband can be so evil and nasty and literally act like they don't care about them at all... When they never did. Sometimes they never loved them, a purpose was suited, and you may as well been a dressed thanksgiving turkey laying in the bed next to them.


So eloquently put. :rofl:


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

treyvion said:


> Thing about it is a BH or BW might not understand how the cake eating wife or husband can be so evil and nasty and literally act like they don't care about them at all... When they never did. Sometimes they never loved them, a purpose was suited, and *you may as well been a dressed thanksgiving turkey laying in the bed next to them*.


While the "turkey" that you married goes out and get's her fill of some other's sausage stuffing.

Sorry. I tried to stop myself, I really did, but I just couldn't.

I include myself among the first "turkey", so I know from experiance.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> So eloquently put. :rofl:


I didn't understand how that "B" couldn't care if I lived or died during that time, when it was literally my worst nemesis I have ever faced in my life. Imagine sleeping next to someone who really doesn't care if you wake up the next morning. Who really doesn't care if the tornadic events the started up by gossip ends up with you hurt, dead or loss of career. Who literally doesn't care if they spend up all your money and the bills can't be paid. Who literally doesn't care, when you are hurt, injured, or accumulating enough stress to start heart attack or stroke.

When your buddy betrays you badly, you need to listen. There is not a vocalized word that can be spoken other than " I had a gun to my head. I was trying to make it really bad so you would leave, because I couldn't say anything. They have recorders everywere"... Something crazy like that.

Other than that, a multi-year betrayal and blowout, there shouldn't be coming back from that.


----------



## treyvion

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> While the "turkey" that you married goes out and get's her fill of some other's sausage stuffing.
> 
> Sorry. I tried to stop myself, I really did, but I just couldn't.
> 
> I include myself among the first "turkey", so I know from experiance.


Oh yeah! They are turkeys too to their OM's.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> So eloquently put. :rofl:


You haven't gotten to this point yet until ex wife decides to fight to hold her position with you or hold you in position.

She might be nice and just leave you alone. That would actually be thoughtful.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> You haven't gotten to this point yet until ex wife decides to fight to hold her position with you or hold you in position.
> 
> She might be nice and just leave you alone. That would actually be thoughtful.


She is not that thoughtful. At the moment I am in the calm before the storm. This is not her usual personality, at least not with me. There is NO WAY that she is this docile. Something is up.
Anyway, I just downloaded for android an app that is a VAR. It will run in the background on my phone when I turn it on. Now I don't have to bring one in the house and worry it will be discovered. So Cool. Hope it works


----------



## Healer

treyvion said:


> Thing about it is a BH or BW might not understand how the cake eating wife or husband can be so evil and nasty and literally act like they don't care about them at all... When they never did. Sometimes they never loved them, a purpose was suited, and you may as well been a dressed thanksgiving turkey laying in the bed next to them.


So that makes my stbxww a turkey f*cker. That sounds about right actually.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> She is not that thoughtful. At the moment I am in the calm before the storm. This is not her usual personality, at least not with me. There is NO WAY that she is this docile. Something is up.
> Anyway, I just downloaded for android an app that is a VAR. It will run in the background on my phone when I turn it on. Now I don't have to bring one in the house and worry it will be discovered. So Cool. Hope it works


You've been about the smartest guy on this website behind this... That noggin of hers is thinking.

Take away all your attention and time from her if you can, other than when you are in your bed sleeping.


----------



## Chaparral

Philat said:


> _*Originally Posted by Psych*
> I remember reading a post a while back here that said something to the effect that, your wife as you know it is dead. The life you knew is dead, the person has been replaced with a clone with who looks just like your wife, but is an entirely different person. _
> 
> 
> 
> Same result in the end.


I. E. She was dead all along .......a sex zombie


----------



## Marduk

Joka said:


> She is not that thoughtful. At the moment I am in the calm before the storm. This is not her usual personality, at least not with me. There is NO WAY that she is this docile. Something is up.
> Anyway, I just downloaded for android an app that is a VAR. It will run in the background on my phone when I turn it on. Now I don't have to bring one in the house and worry it will be discovered. So Cool. Hope it works


Like I said, go dark and all power to the defensive systems.

You're not through the woods yet. An ambush is coming.

In all likelihood her goal will be to force an emotional response/loss of control on your part. That could be anger, jealousy, pity, or remorse.

Most likely anger. Her goal will be to destabilize your emotional foundation. Ignore the message and don't let her achieve her goal.


----------



## Thor

I would not be surprised if she makes false domestic violence charges. Keep a reliable VAR on you at all times, and record all phone conversations.


----------



## lordmayhem

Joka said:


> She is not that thoughtful. At the moment I am in the calm before the storm. This is not her usual personality, at least not with me. There is NO WAY that she is this docile. Something is up.
> Anyway, I just downloaded for android an app that is a VAR. It will run in the background on my phone when I turn it on. Now I don't have to bring one in the house and worry it will be discovered. So Cool. Hope it works


Hence the reason I said that you should keep any surveillance in place. If for no other reason than to protect yourself. You need to know what they are planning. And make no mistake, OM is in on the plans.


----------



## Joka

Update:
It is Thursday morning. I get up and out of the house at 7am and get back at 10pm ish and go to bed. I go on my computer and read. So no contact at all since Monday. No calls or texts from her at all. Saw her once and I gave a very brief wave, she was in another room. 
So this morning she texts me to ask a question about something that broke at her college kids house. I didn't answer. then a text giving me a list of how much her kids are costing her, both in college. She gave me a complete list with costs. Not my problem, her kids not mine. Mine are full grown parents and are self - sufficient. I didn't answer. Then a text "Why do you leave so early". I didn't answer. Then a text "Good morning". I didn't answer. Then a text "I love you". I still didn't answer.

So far so good. Eye of the Storm


----------



## convert

she is probably going to use the list of cost in court to show her expenditures, It might make a difference? IDK


----------



## cool12

desperation is so unattractive. 
carry on.


----------



## Squeakr

convert said:


> she is probably going to use the list of cost in court to show her expenditures, It might make a difference? IDK


That's the one (and only in my mind) beauty of NC (the state that is), in that when infidelity is involved, alimony is off the table. He and she both know it (he knows it because he would have told his lawyer about it and she, if she is being truthful with her lawyer, will know it as well) If she doesn't know it now, she will learn it when the separation agreement negotiations start as it will come out inevitably.


----------



## lordmayhem

Joka said:


> Update:
> It is Thursday morning. I get up and out of the house at 7am and get back at 10pm ish and go to bed. I go on my computer and read. So no contact at all since Monday. No calls or texts from her at all. Saw her once and I gave a very brief wave, she was in another room.
> So this morning she texts me to ask a question about something that broke at her college kids house. I didn't answer. then a text giving me a list of how much her kids are costing her, both in college. She gave me a complete list with costs. Not my problem, her kids not mine. Mine are full grown parents and are self - sufficient. I didn't answer. Then a text "Why do you leave so early". I didn't answer. Then a text "Good morning". I didn't answer. Then a text "I love you". I still didn't answer.
> 
> So far so good. Eye of the Storm


She should have thought of that before she started cheating. You could have texted her back telling her to have her boyfriend help her out financially. Of course, OM wouldn't do that, he just gets the sex for free. Or you could have texted, "you obviously don't love me enough not to wh0re yourself out to other men."

It just goes to show, that people are NEVER to old too cheat. Its a good bet she was doing this to her ex-husband as well.

But its good that you went dark and didn't respond.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

*So this morning she texts me to ask a question about something that broke at her college kids house.*

Translation: I need your money.

*Then a text giving me a list of how much her kids are costing her, both in college.* 

Translation: I need your money.

*"Why do you leave so early".*

Translation: I need your money.

*"Good morning".*

Translation: I need your money.

*"I love you". I still didn't answer.*

Translation: I need your money.


----------



## Joka

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> *So this morning she texts me to ask a question about something that broke at her college kids house.*
> 
> Translation: I need your money.
> 
> *Then a text giving me a list of how much her kids are costing her, both in college.*
> 
> Translation: I need your money.
> 
> *"Why do you leave so early".*
> 
> Translation: I need your money.
> 
> *"Good morning".*
> 
> Translation: I need your money.
> 
> *"I love you". I still didn't answer.*
> 
> Translation: I need your money.


It is not I need your money but close.
It is please don't take my money. She makes a ton of money.


----------



## Joka

Squeakr said:


> That's the one (and only in my mind) beauty of NC (the state that is), in that when infidelity is involved, alimony is off the table. He and she both know it (he knows it because he would have told his lawyer about it and she, if she is being truthful with her lawyer, will know it as well) If she doesn't know it now, she will learn it when the separation agreement negotiations start as it will come out inevitably.


This is the bible belt. They like to have laws about being a Wh*re and being married at the same time


----------



## Squeakr

Joka said:


> This is the bible belt. They like to have laws about being a Wh*re and being married at the same time


Yeah, but they are also progressive enough to not care to enforce them really. They have them on the books but seem to selectively enforce them.


----------



## Joka

Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


----------



## Squeakr

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.



If you must respond:


"We have nothing to discuss." Delivered in a matter of fact manner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


"I'm sorry, but I think you have the wrong number."


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


Not answering is a great response.

If you want to get her off of you "let your boyfriend take care of you". Then you have nothing else to talk about.


----------



## harrybrown

I thought the message was for OM1 or OM2 or OM3 or OM4.


----------



## convert

No response
or Who is this? would be a good response
then when she answers that, you say I am sorry i do not know who you are.
technically that would be correct


----------



## Dyokemm

"I thought the message was for OM1 or OM2 or OM3 or OM4."

:rofl:....classic


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> "I thought the message was for OM1 or OM2 or OM3 or OM4."
> 
> :rofl:....classic


Hey now lol


----------



## manticore

Joka said:


> then a text giving me a list of how much her kids are costing her, both in college. She gave me a complete list with costs. Not my problem,


use this to say her that is also in her best interest to have an amicable divorce


----------



## turnera

What exactly have you told her so far? Have you said you're divorcing her and why? It seemed like you just went cold and dark on her without telling her why. Is that right?


----------



## Joka

turnera said:


> What exactly have you told her so far? Have you said you're divorcing her and why? It seemed like you just went cold and dark on her without telling her why. Is that right?


I told her we are getting divorced. Then I had my attorney send a letter of representation. It has all been said about all the affairs before that. 
When she confronts me face to face I would like to keep the same tone that I have been using.


----------



## anchorwatch

The 180 is for your detachment, it doesn't support anything snarky getting you into little spats. You previously stated you want the process to go as quick and smooth as can be helped. That doesn't support jabs at her either. 

Just let her know the time you wanted meaningful conversation has past, and you don't have a need for small talk any longer. If is something important about the house, finance, health, or requisites of the divorce you'll answer as soon as you can. Keep it along those lines.


----------



## Q tip

Hey, If pressured. Still say nothing. But just in case--

As for how you know, tell her she talks in her sleep and then the PI confirmed what she said and sent the PI on a hot trail. She has a good memory with phone numbers among other things.


----------



## Joka

I don't think I have explained myself well enough. I don't want to get into anything with her. Just the opposite. I do want this to go as smooth as possible, not likely but I'll give it a shot. I just wanted a monotone generic response to why don't you answer my calls or text messages. Her tactic is always to get the other person to talk and she then can do the spin dance.


----------



## Q tip

No, you were very clear on that. You are correct. Absolutely. Just an idea at worst.


----------



## dubsey

"I don't have anything constructive to add to the conversation."


----------



## Dyokemm

"I don't think I have explained myself well enough. I don't want to get into anything with her. Just the opposite. I do want this to go as smooth as possible, not likely but I'll give it a shot. I just wanted a monotone generic response to why don't you answer my calls or text messages. Her tactic is always to get the other person to talk and she then can do the spin dance."

Then go with Squeakr's response..."we have nothing to discuss."


----------



## mahike

Joka said:


> I don't think I have explained myself well enough. I don't want to get into anything with her. Just the opposite. I do want this to go as smooth as possible, not likely but I'll give it a shot. I just wanted a monotone generic response to why don't you answer my calls or text messages. Her tactic is always to get the other person to talk and she then can do the spin dance.


We really have nothing to discuss. and let it go at that. Anything else she will know that she is getting to you and that is the last thing you want


----------



## Ripper

Don't responded unless its about the divorce or some dire emergency. (i.e. the house is on fire) She is a horrible person and an emotional manipulator. Nothing is gained by engaging in any form of conversation with her, whether its trading barbs or seeking answers.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


Okay, here's one:

WW: Why don't you re2rn my messages?
Joka: Sorry, here you go: "why don't you re2rn my messages?" Consider it re2rned.

-ol' 2long


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

Seriously, I do agree that no response is called for.

But it'd be tempting:

WW: Why don't you re2rn my messages?
Joka: Sorry, Cupcake (or any cute nickname you have NEVER called her), I thought you were my wife.

-ol' 2long


----------



## X-B

Why didn't you return my messages? 
A: Why didn't you return my love.


----------



## adriana

X-Betaman said:


> Why didn't you return my messages?
> A: Why didn't you return my love.



Oh, this is really cute. :smthumbup: 

But, ultimately, nothing is more punishing than a cold, "sophisticated" silence.... just ask my ex husband.


----------



## 6301

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


 IMO. No response. See? Clear a milk. Maybe she'll finally get the message.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

"The time for talk has long since passed. Don't even try to pretend that you don't know why. If it's not about the D, we have nothing to talk about. Don't ask again."


----------



## weightlifter

Why dont you return...

Too busy getting tested for herpes.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

"Why do you think??"


----------



## Just Joe

Hi,

I just registered and this is my first post. I'm getting ready to post my own problem, but I think ignoring her completely at this point is not going to make her go away.

A few observations:

She makes a lot of money you say. I say that means she probably is good at what she does, she probably is smart in certain ways, I'm guessing she is a pretty good manipulator, pretty good at maneuvering herself politically at work to accomplish her goals.

She likes to make the other person talk first, then does her spin dance you say. This reinforces that she is a good manipulator you might say, she might say she knows how to read people and push the right buttons to get what she wants. That's what she's trying to do with you.

She's cheated on you how many times? I thought I read 7. Anyway, it was multiple. Somebody was posting about OM1, OM2, OM3, OM4, etc. And you hadn't caught her until just now. Yes, you were at the disadvantage of trusting her, but you seem to be very intelligent yourself, your posts make sense, your plan makes sense. So that also reinforces what a good manipulator she is, she was able to do this for a long time with a lot of other men without getting caught until now, and do it behind the back of pretty smart guy. I have the feeling that she is just better at the manipulation game than you. You have the upper hand now, but if you engage her, she might get the upper hand.

still, I think you seem capable of engaging a little more than you have been in order to get her off your back and shut her up. I suggest the following reply to every text from her:

"You cheated. I have absolute 100% positive proof of it. I am not going to disclose what proof I have. I am divorcing you. Please direct all communication to my attorney. I would like this divorce to be as amicable as possible." Use that response every single time. Or alter it to your liking. But I think you have to do more than just silence. After a few days of that response, then tell her you have said everything you are going to say, and you are going to ignore her messages from now on. Then stick to the silence.


----------



## Squeakr

Just Joe said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just registered and this is my first post. I'm getting ready to post my own problem, but I think ignoring her completely at this point is not going to make her go away.
> 
> A few observations:
> 
> She makes a lot of money you say. I say that means she probably is good at what she does, she probably is smart in certain ways, I'm guessing she is a pretty good manipulator, pretty good at maneuvering herself politically at work to accomplish her goals.
> 
> She likes to make the other person talk first, then does her spin dance you say. This reinforces that she is a good manipulator you might say, she might say she knows how to read people and push the right buttons to get what she wants. That's what she's trying to do with you.
> 
> She's cheated on you how many times? I thought I read 7. Anyway, it was multiple. Somebody was posting about OM1, OM2, OM3, OM4, etc. And you hadn't caught her until just now. Yes, you were at the disadvantage of trusting her, but you seem to be very intelligent yourself, your posts make sense, your plan makes sense. So that also reinforces what a good manipulator she is, she was able to do this for a long time with a lot of other men without getting caught until now, and do it behind the back of pretty smart guy. I have the feeling that she is just better at the manipulation game than you. You have the upper hand now, but if you engage her, she might get the upper hand.
> 
> still, I think you seem capable of engaging a little more than you have been in order to get her off your back and shut her up. I suggest the following reply to every text from her:
> 
> "You cheated. I have absolute 100% positive proof of it. I am not going to disclose what proof I have. I am divorcing you. Please direct all communication to my attorney. I would like this divorce to be as amicable as possible." Use that response every single time. Or alter it to your liking. But I think you have to do more than just silence. After a few days of that response, then tell her you have said everything you are going to say, and you are going to ignore her messages from now on. Then stick to the silence.


Sorry but bad advice all around. Income level doesn't always have any direct connection to competence, intelligence, or manipulation ability, it can just be the career field chosen and the time within it. 

Also by engaging back and with the response as to her cheating will only serve to upset and create tension which is what he is trying to avoid at this point. Also if he is taped or the text saved doing that it can be seen as vindictive and is admissible in court as evidence of his actions. Although it is not really that bad it will only serve to make him look worse in the eyes of the court. And possibly hurt his character as she will bring out all the stops if pushed. In his state, the women always have the upper hand and he would like to end this as quickly, efficiently, and as least expensive as possible. Anything that causes issues only translates into more money out of his pocket. She is getting to the point where she has nothing to lose, so why not break him in the process as well. 

I still say if you must respond my prior comment is the best " We have nothing to discuss." And then go quiet. He is not trying to get her to go away ( although he would live that) he is trying to get her to just leave him alone and engaging just feeds her agenda. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Just Joe said:


> "You cheated. I have absolute 100% positive proof of it. I am not going to disclose what proof I have. I am divorcing you. Please direct all communication to my attorney. I would like this divorce to be as amicable as possible."


And add "If you don't leave me alone, that evidence will go viral."


----------



## Chaparral

Squeakr said:


> Sorry but bad advice all around. Income level doesn't always have any direct connection to competence, intelligence, or manipulation ability, it can just be the career field chosen and the time within it.
> 
> Also by engaging back and with the response as to her cheating will only serve to upset and create tension which is what he is trying to avoid at this point. Also if he is taped or the text saved doing that it can be seen as vindictive and is admissible in court as evidence of his actions. Although it is not really that bad it will only serve to make him look worse in the eyes of the court. And possibly hurt his character as she will bring out all the stops if pushed. In his state, the women always have the upper hand and he would like to end this as quickly, efficiently, and as least expensive as possible. Anything that causes issues only translates into more money out of his pocket. She is getting to the point where she has nothing to lose, so why not break him in the process as well.
> 
> I still say if you must respond my prior comment is the best " We have nothing to discuss." And then go quiet. He is not trying to get her to go away ( although he would live that) he is trying to get her to just leave him alone and engaging just feeds her agenda.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Telling your wife you caught her cheating would be considered vindictive? Good Lord.:scratchhead:


----------



## VFW

Joka said:


> I told her we are getting divorced. Then I had my attorney send a letter of representation. It has all been said about all the affairs before that.
> When she confronts me face to face I would like to keep the same tone that I have been using.


I would let her know that you have certain information and that you know she is lying. Because she refuses to be honest, you really just don't see that there is anything to discuss.


----------



## Just Joe

Squeakr said:


> Sorry but bad advice all around. Income level doesn't always have any direct connection to competence, intelligence, or manipulation ability, it can just be the career field chosen and the time within it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Squeakr, I did not say income level "*ALWAYS*" has a direct connection to competence, intelligence, or manipulation ability, I said it *PROBABLY* means she is good at what she does.

May I ask, is English your primary language?

I also offered several other reasons why I felt she was a good manipulator.

I have a lot of life experience and I have found that people of a certain age who make a lot of money usually are good at what they do. Has this not been your experience?

I also must share that I found your advice to be "bad" also, but not wanting to provoke you, I just kept it to myself and offered my own advice. Perhaps I would have taken less offense if you just would have said you disagree with my advice, as I disagree with yours, instead of calling it bad advice.

Is this typical behavior for this forum?


----------



## Philat

Just Joe said:


> Is this typical behavior for this forum?


Joe, on the Coping With Infidelity forum punches do not get pulled a whole lot. Squeakr's comment was not out of line with what you normally find here. But I'm sure it was not meant as a personal affront, either. The subjects dealt with here are volatile and raw, and bluntness is the order of the day. I know I received my share of unvarnished replies in my threads. Most of them helped.

I hope you will stay and post your story, as you said. Their is a great deal of wisdom based on experience here.


----------



## Joka

Just Joe said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just registered and this is my first post. I'm getting ready to post my own problem, but I think ignoring her completely at this point is not going to make her go away.
> 
> A few observations:
> 
> She makes a lot of money you say. I say that means she probably is good at what she does, she probably is smart in certain ways, I'm guessing she is a pretty good manipulator, pretty good at maneuvering herself politically at work to accomplish her goals.
> 
> She likes to make the other person talk first, then does her spin dance you say. This reinforces that she is a good manipulator you might say, she might say she knows how to read people and push the right buttons to get what she wants. That's what she's trying to do with you.
> 
> She's cheated on you how many times? I thought I read 7. Anyway, it was multiple. Somebody was posting about OM1, OM2, OM3, OM4, etc. And you hadn't caught her until just now. Yes, you were at the disadvantage of trusting her, but you seem to be very intelligent yourself, your posts make sense, your plan makes sense. So that also reinforces what a good manipulator she is, she was able to do this for a long time with a lot of other men without getting caught until now, and do it behind the back of pretty smart guy. I have the feeling that she is just better at the manipulation game than you. You have the upper hand now, but if you engage her, she might get the upper hand.
> 
> still, I think you seem capable of engaging a little more than you have been in order to get her off your back and shut her up. I suggest the following reply to every text from her:
> 
> "You cheated. I have absolute 100% positive proof of it. I am not going to disclose what proof I have. I am divorcing you. Please direct all communication to my attorney. I would like this divorce to be as amicable as possible." Use that response every single time. Or alter it to your liking. But I think you have to do more than just silence. After a few days of that response, then tell her you have said everything you are going to say, and you are going to ignore her messages from now on. Then stick to the silence.


Joe, she is in sales, makes a lot of money and is an excellent manipulator. She is also a narcasist. She is pretty and in great shape and she is older. Just ask her she will tell you how great she is.
Please post your story. It really helps getting it off your chest.
Thank you for your reply and I can tell your comments would be of good value here


----------



## aug

Squeakr said:


> That's the one (and only in my mind) beauty of NC (the state that is), in that when infidelity is involved, alimony is off the table. He and she both know it (he knows it because he would have told his lawyer about it and she, if she is being truthful with her lawyer, will know it as well) If she doesn't know it now, she will learn it when the separation agreement negotiations start as it will come out inevitably.


Given the disparity in his and her income, Joka should be asking her for alimony. Perhaps she knows this may be coming and is preempting it by saying she's going to quit her job?


----------



## aug

Joka said:


> It is not I need your money but close.
> It is please don't take my money. She makes a ton of money.


You should ask for alimony.


----------



## aug

And, why respond at all? She cant manipulate an empty response.


----------



## lordmayhem

aug said:


> You should ask for alimony.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Yup. Hit her with alimony.


----------



## Squeakr

Chaparral said:


> Telling your wife you caught her cheating would be considered vindictive? Good Lord.:scratchhead:


Saying it once is considered fine but replying to her each time like was suggested would be considered vindictive and paint the BS in a very negative light for the judge and court system. I was told this by a lawyer from his state just yesterday. I know it seems ludicrous but then I see the point as you are constantly harping on that one point and showing weakness of character. Like I said a messed up state. Adultery is still illegal but no one wants to hear about it nor treat it like it was illegal and prosecute it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

Just Joe said:


> Squeakr, I did not say income level "*ALWAYS*" has a direct connection to competence, intelligence, or manipulation ability, I said it *PROBABLY* means she is good at what she does.
> 
> May I ask, is English your primary language?
> 
> I also offered several other reasons why I felt she was a good manipulator.
> 
> I have a lot of life experience and I have found that people of a certain age who make a lot of money usually are good at what they do. Has this not been your experience?
> 
> I also must share that I found your advice to be "bad" also, but not wanting to provoke you, I just kept it to myself and offered my own advice. Perhaps I would have taken less offense if you just would have said you disagree with my advice, as I disagree with yours, instead of calling it bad advice.
> 
> Is this typical behavior for this forum?


Yes, English is my native language and this line of questioning is going somewhere why? So now you can then proceed to belittle me through further insults and question my intelligence for my interpretation of your comments? 

I too have a wealth of life experience and probably means with great certainty but once again that is not always the case and in my experience those whom have been doing their job for a while are generally just able to manipulate the system to post their numbers and not necessarily good at their job (they have been doing it so long they have a level of respect, earned, deserved, or not) given to them because of their longevity. This seems to hold true in military, government, union, and private sector jobs that I have had (and as you go up in ranks you do less generally and earn more for that honor). 

Sorry you are offended but I stand by my responses as I live just down the road from Joka in the same state and just got out from talking to several lawyers yesterday and everything suggested does not work well and is not good to do within this state. Your responses went against his requests to keep things 1) calm, 2) in keeping with the 180, yet give a response to help keep things amicable and 3)make the D the easiest and least costly for both. 

Also don't kid yourself if you think you found my comments "bad" yet kept it to yourself, as you took the first opportunity you had to lash back and make it known your thoughts, whereas truly letting it go and keeping it to yourself would have kept you from mentioning it at all (you were just taking a pot shot is all by stating that). Sorry that is not "keeping it to yourself." Since you brought it up though, please point out what you thought was so "bad" about my comment of 'if you must respond state "we have nothing further to discuss",' as I have taken the time to tell why yours was a bad idea.

I could have just said bad idea and left it at that but wanted to clarify my thoughts and statements as to why it was bad (and I feel being in the same state and knowing a little more about the local laws of this state I have a little bit of an upper hand here, as I have been told what judges, lawyers, and mediators want to hear and not hear when it comes to correspondence between parties and remaining civil for the courts systems within this state). In other states where it might not matter, it could be a vlid approach and way to get revenge somewhat, but that is not what he wanted or asked for. He wanted and asked for amicable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Squeakr

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> Yup. Hit her with alimony.


This is actually a good idea and quite feasible with admissible evidence to make it happen easily within his state.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## U.E. McGill

NC was/is a jilted lover state. Had a buddy use the threat of suing the OM as significant leverage in getting an amicable settlement in his D.


----------



## Squeakr

U.E. McGill said:


> NC was/is a jilted lover state. Had a buddy use the threat of suing the OM as significant leverage in getting an amicable settlement in his D.


Yep, which is why you keep the infidelity hidden in the arsenal, until you need the bigger weapon when they refuse to agree. Most will fold to demands when they feel their careers and public life will suffer if their carnal adventures went public record.


----------



## Thor

Squeakr said:


> Yep, which is why you keep the infidelity hidden in the arsenal, until you need the bigger weapon when they refuse to agree. Most will fold to demands when they feel their careers and public life will suffer if their carnal adventures went public record.


Yup.

Sun Tzu all the way on this one. Be strategic. Play for the win. Joka, read the book if you haven't yet. "The Art of War".


----------



## Healer

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


Continue not responding at all. Your silence screams the loudest.


----------



## SadSamIAm

I like the response, ""You cheated. I have absolute 100% positive proof of it. I am not going to disclose what proof I have. I am divorcing you. Please direct all communication to my attorney. I would like this divorce to be as amicable as possible.""

I can't see it seen as bad by anyone (judges, lawyers, etc.) for him to tell his wife why he is divorcing her.

But add at the end, "I won't be responding to anymore messages", and don't. I think it is fine to say this once.


----------



## Joka

Thor said:


> Yup.
> 
> Sun Tzu all the way on this one. Be strategic. Play for the win. Joka, read the book if you haven't yet. "The Art of War".


I will. Thanks


----------



## Squeakr

SadSamIAm said:


> I like the response, ""You cheated. I have absolute 100% positive proof of it. I am not going to disclose what proof I have. I am divorcing you. Please direct all communication to my attorney. I would like this divorce to be as amicable as possible.""
> 
> I can't see it seen as bad by anyone (judges, lawyers, etc.) for him to tell his wife why he is divorcing her.
> 
> But add at the end, "I won't be responding to anymore messages", and don't. I think it is fine to say this once.


He pretty much has said it once already. In this state, now here comes the mind boggling part, adultery is illegal, and Alienation of Affection and Criminal Conversation are torts available to sue for damages, yet it is a no fault state for divorce and adultery is rarely, if ever, charged and convicted here anymore. Therefor Judges and the like don't want to see it thrown around as a weapon and used within the courts to shame the WS. They frown upon this. 

I agree, it shouldn't matter to call it like it is, but it could be construed as verbally abusive and defamatory and works against his character to the judge (in a state already stacked against the male party). The VARs he has are inadmissible in court, so unless he has other supporting evidence she could easily win such claims and severely hinder his case.

If within NC the people actually had a voice the WS would not have a good chance at anything, but the people want the laws and torts on the books still so they remain. However the government, prosecutors, police, and judges would like them removed, so when it comes to rulings they are doing their best to make them harder to get and more costly for the plaintiff to pursue and therefor nullifying the laws.


----------



## TheBaxter

Joka why do you think she does it? Is she a sex addict? Does she need to have the attention of lots of men to make herself feel good? Was she sexually abused as a little girl? I know at this point it does not matter, but has she ever opened up as to why she feels the need to screw every other guy who passes her in the hallway?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

Healer said:


> Continue not responding at all. Your silence screams the loudest.


All it says is "im done" or "we have nothing to talk about", plus he cannot be drawn in or manipulated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

TheBaxter said:


> Joka why do you think she does it? Is she a sex addict? Does she need to have the attention of lots of men to make herself feel good? Was she sexually abused as a little girl? I know at this point it does not matter, but has she ever opened up as to why she feels the need to screw every other guy who passes her in the hallway?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She does it for the same reason other women do. Its exciting to them and they can. She might be in a lifestyle with other females who are doing this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TheBaxter

I asked Joka.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Joka said:


> Joe, she is in sales, makes a lot of money and is an excellent manipulator. She is also a narcasist. She is pretty and in great shape and she is older. Just ask her she will tell you how great she is.


Start dating a younger woman and watch her lose her sh!t.

As "great" as she is, she can't compete with youth.


----------



## treyvion

ArmyofJuan said:


> Start dating a younger woman and watch her lose her sh!t.
> 
> As "great" as she is, she can't compete with youth.



Nor should she try. She may have accumulated experience and skills that make youth look like a little immature girl. He should just get someone who he likes if they were an accomplished person it be great.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

Your silence is priceless. Continue the good work.


----------



## Joka

TheBaxter said:


> Joka why do you think she does it? Is she a sex addict? *I suppose so. I Have heard her say this just not to me.* Does she need to have the attention of lots of men to make herself feel good? *YES* Was she sexually abused as a little girl? *NO* I know at this point it does not matter, but has she ever opened up as to why she feels the need to screw every other guy who passes her in the hallway? *She does not admit to any of it other than the last dude.*_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

She sounds like shes in that lust for the world mindset. She sees so many "opportunities" its not even funny. You sound like your just ready to unload.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


Best responses ranked in order:

#1 no response at all... preferably distracted with your phone with a wily smirk on your face. Just walk away.
#2 "why would I?"
#3 "my lawyer's phone number is X. Please route all queries through him."


----------



## Chaparral

If he wants to prove adultery he can have her texts,emails and social network postings subpoenaed.


----------



## treyvion

marduk said:


> Best responses ranked in order:
> 
> #1 no response at all... preferably distracted with your phone with a wily smirk on your face. Just walk away.
> #2 "why would I?"
> #3 "my lawyer's phone number is X. Please route all queries through him."


He could leave her a voicemail, "if its (wifes name) please direct your call to (attorneys name)"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

marduk said:


> Best responses ranked in order:
> 
> #1 no response at all... preferably distracted with your phone with a wily smirk on your face. Just walk away.
> #2 "why would I?"
> #3 "my lawyer's phone number is X. Please route all queries through him."


All good. #1 is my favortite


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> All good. #1 is my favortite


I dont answer bevause you may not be able to comprehend, im really done with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

treyvion said:


> I dont answer bevause you may not be able to comprehend, im really done with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Careful here, you'll trigger an emotional response from her, which may destabilize his emotional response in turn.

I was married to a master manipulator. When they lose control of a situation, one of the best ways to regain that control is to emotionally destabilize the other person.

By any means necessary.

Joka, you being stone cold and quiet will bring you to the best, safest, and sanest conclusion quickly.

As a side effect (to those of us that have the vengeful bent) it will also drive her bat **** crazy. Mostly because she can't control/manipulate you, but also because you are demonstrating that your life is no longer centered around her.


----------



## treyvion

marduk said:


> Careful here, you'll trigger an emotional response from her, which may destabilize his emotional response in turn.
> 
> I was married to a master manipulator. When they lose control of a situation, one of the best ways to regain that control is to emotionally destabilize the other person.
> 
> By any means necessary.
> 
> Joka, you being stone cold and quiet will bring you to the best, safest, and sanest conclusion quickly.
> 
> As a side effect (to those of us that have the vengeful bent) it will also drive her bat **** crazy. Mostly because she can't control/manipulate you, but also because you are demonstrating that your life is no longer centered around her.


I was saying thats what his silence says.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

treyvion said:


> I was saying thats what his silence says.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK, I get it, thanks.


----------



## Marduk

Couple quotes for you Joka:

“Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.” 

“Give evil nothing to oppose and it will disappear by itself.” 
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching


----------



## Joka

marduk said:


> Couple quotes for you Joka:
> 
> “Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.”
> 
> “Give evil nothing to oppose and it will disappear by itself.”
> ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching


Duly Noted!:iagree:


----------



## bandit.45

"Okay my soon-to-be-ex wife, this is the only written response you will be getting from me. Use what I have to say in the divorce hearing, I really don't give a rat's ass. 

Why? Because I hate your your lying, cheating, adulterous guts. I want to get through this divorce quickly. I want you gone from my life pronto. In fact I cannot wait until the last day when I see your well-oiled skank ass walking away from me for the last time.

I have hard evidence you have continued to lie and cheat behind my back. Don't bother asking where or how I got it. It matters not. The reconciliation we have attempted has been a sham from the start, just like our entire relationship and marriage. You are a filthy disgusting rag of a human and I am done with you. I have no heart for you left to squeeze. It died long ago. You made sure of that. 

Stop calling me, stop texting me, don't speak to me, don't hire the great great, great grandson of Geronimo to send me smoke signals. I won't answer. Talk to my lawyer if you want updates. 

As for any residual love or affection, don't waste your time looking for any. I wish nothing but bad things on your life. I hope scores of men use you for for a human toilet for decades to come, until your pathetic life is utterly spent, until you breathe your last breath curled up on the floor amidst piles of feces from your 53 cats, forsaken and alone. 

Now quit bothering me. Or die. Whichever you prefer"




Send this off to her. She won't bother you anymore.


----------



## U.E. McGill

The opposite of love is indifference. Your point is best made saying nothing.


----------



## lordmayhem

bandit.45 said:


> Send this off to her. She won't bother you anymore.


:iagree:

I remember this worked for your XWW, she too thought she could cake eat. Any idea what became of her? Last I remember you said she had hooked up with some unsavory characters and gotten tatted up, living the wh0re lifestyle.


----------



## the guy

Maybe it's time for your lawyer to send another letter...something like "leave my client the phuck alone"


----------



## the guy

Seriously, when you do eventualy run into her what really needs to be said?
You know she will sale you a bag of crap and then what are you going to do with a brand new bag of crap...wait I regress its the same old bag of crap. She is going to try to sell you a used bag of crap, and thats even worse then a new bag of crap!!!


Point here guys is nothing they tells you already haven't heard...it'll just be worded differently.


----------



## treyvion

the guy said:


> Seriously, when you do eventualy run into her what really needs to be said?
> You know she will sale you a bag of crap and then what are you going to do with a brand new bag of crap...wait I regress its the same old bag of crap. She is going to try to sell you a used bag of crap, and thats even worse then a new bag of crap!!!
> 
> 
> Point here guys is nothing they tells you already haven't heard...it'll just be worded differently.


There is nothing a verbal exchange accomplishes. Hes doing excellent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

Update:
Ok so I am sitting here at Starbucks on a Saturday Night around 10pm and am thinking about what just happened. Nothing earth shattering but I was having one of those really down days. My lawyer wanted me to send all the statements and such. So I am at my business scanning in all this crap and who pulls up, the wayward wh*re wife. I haven't seen her in days. Anyway, I continue to do what I was doing, there wasn't anything secretive that was out so I didn't even look up for a while. She had that I am so hurt look. She asks me "why am I doing this". Why am I breaking up the marriage" "my kids love you and are so hurt". "The lawyers will cost a fortune", "we can do this easier", we can sell the house and spit it". I did not say much at all. I kept myself under control to all her questions and did not respond except really short responses like "I'm doing what I was told to do", when she asked why I am scanning in all this. She tried to make funny talk about certain documents. I didn't even show an emotion. She finally got fed up with my non-answers and left. In my mind I am thinking, do you think I am a total phvcking fool. I know what she did and in one of my outwardly pissed rants sometime ago I told her a little of what I know , which she denies and has repeated to me and still denied later. So last year this wh*re bltch started an LLC with her then boyfriend and wrote checks against our house and maxed out the line of credit for risky investments. It panned out for her but she still does it and doesn't say a word to me. She funnels all the proceeds to her LLC. I am not totally sure the then boyfriend is still involved but wtf. Because I started my own business we decided to put the house mortgage in her name, I am on the deed, and she does have a higher percentage of equity into the house, maybe 70% to my 30% but wtf. We are still talking about 50k I am into it for and I pay for half of everything and have well before this house. 
I know I am suppose to get to an indifference, which I am totally not their yet, but just before she came in I was so down with water in my eyes and when she left I felt so good.

Phvck Her!!


----------



## Psych

Stay strong. Don't give up the lawyer. Lies fall from her lips like leaves in autumn. She knows what she did. She doesn't believe you'll go through with this. She's trying to regain power and control by engaging you in any conversation. Keep silent. Let the lawyers talk. 

Engaging her in talk at this point is like trying to prove a point to a severely drunk person. You'll never win, nothing good can come of it, and all the drunk person will do is get louder and more crazy. 

You know she's crazy, unfaithful, and cruel. You are worth more than that. Silence will kill her. Let her need for cake be her undoing. 

You will have ups and downs during the next few months. Don't beat yourself up,too badly if you make a bad choice from time to time, however; heed the advice from others who have walked your path. Their experience will come in handy if you listen to them.

Keep fighting.


----------



## X-B

The indifference feeling takes a while.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Update:
> Ok so I am sitting here at Starbucks on a Saturday Night around 10pm and am thinking about what just happened. Nothing earth shattering but I was having one of those really down days. My lawyer wanted me to send all the statements and such. So I am at my business scanning in all this crap and who pulls up, the wayward wh*re wife. I haven't seen her in days. Anyway, I continue to do what I was doing, there wasn't anything secretive that was out so I didn't even look up for a while. She had that I am so hurt look. She asks me "why am I doing this". Why am I breaking up the marriage" "my kids love you and are so hurt". "The lawyers will cost a fortune", "we can do this easier", we can sell the house and spit it". I did not say much at all. I kept myself under control to all her questions and did not respond except really short responses like "I'm doing what I was told to do", when she asked why I am scanning in all this. She tried to make funny talk about certain documents. I didn't even show an emotion. She finally got fed up with my non-answers and left. In my mind I am thinking, do you think I am a total phvcking fool. I know what she did and in one of my outwardly pissed rants sometime ago I told her a little of what I know , which she denies and has repeated to me and still denied later. So last year this wh*re bltch started an LLC with her then boyfriend and wrote checks against our house and maxed out the line of credit for risky investments. It panned out for her but she still does it and doesn't say a word to me. She funnels all the proceeds to her LLC. I am not totally sure the then boyfriend is still involved but wtf. Because I started my own business we decided to put the house mortgage in her name, I am on the deed, and she does have a higher percentage of equity into the house, maybe 70% to my 30% but wtf. We are still talking about 50k I am into it for and I pay for half of everything and have well before this house.
> I know I am suppose to get to an indifference, which I am totally not their yet, but just before she came in I was so down with water in my eyes and when she left I felt so good.
> 
> Phvck Her!!


Wow, her business dealing mustve felt like getting impaled and her expecting you to smile. Ontop of it having to accept several years of being cheated on. Im happy for you. I dont recall you being made sexless or affectionless or abuse ontop of it all. Im glad you had enough, my question is do you have faith in humanity to believe you can eventually have a "good" relationship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> Wow, her business dealing mustve felt like getting impaled and her expecting you to smile. Ontop of it having to accept several years of being cheated on. Im happy for you. I dont recall you being made sexless or affectionless or abuse ontop of it all. Im glad you had enough, my question is do you have faith in humanity to believe you can eventually have a "good" relationship!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have thought about that. Time will tell but I think I will be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

Indifference takes a lot of time master. Stick to it.


----------



## Chaparral

She needs some one who is also into open marriages. Maybe she can find someone on Craigs list.


----------



## Joka

Chaparral said:


> She needs some one who is also into open marriages. Maybe she can find someone on Craigs list.


That's a great idea. They are all nice people on Craigslist.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Oh boy, she has an LLC? 
I'm beginning to understand why she wants you to stop. It has nothing to do with reputation, ease or wanting you back. In my opinion, she has hid or is hiding money. She was funneling money away from the family? Wow. Play your cards right and she may be paying you child support and alimony. If you haven't done so, make sure your lawyer checks ALL financials and start doing records check. We investigated a fraud a few years ago, he hid assets under his kids, his wife's and a few "friends" names.

Start looking through everything and doing record checks. If it is too hard, ask your lawyer what you need to do to get access to all of her financial records.


----------



## lordmayhem

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Oh boy, she has an LLC?
> I'm beginning to understand why she wants you to stop. It has nothing to do with reputation, ease or wanting you back. In my opinion, she has hid or is hiding money. She was funneling money away from the family? Wow. Play your cards right and she may be paying you child support and alimony. If you haven't done so, make sure your lawyer checks ALL financials and start doing records check. We investigated a fraud a few years ago, he hid assets under his kids, his wife's and a few "friends" names.
> 
> Start looking through everything and doing record checks. If it is too hard, ask your lawyer what you need to do to get access to all of her financial records.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Forensic accounting needed.


----------



## Joka

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Oh boy, she has an LLC?
> I'm beginning to understand why she wants you to stop. It has nothing to do with reputation, ease or wanting you back. In my opinion, she has hid or is hiding money. She was funneling money away from the family? Wow. Play your cards right and she may be paying you child support and alimony. If you haven't done so, make sure your lawyer checks ALL financials and start doing records check. We investigated a fraud a few years ago, he hid assets under his kids, his wife's and a few "friends" names.
> 
> Start looking through everything and doing record checks. If it is too hard, ask your lawyer what you need to do to get access to all of her financial records.


We are doing financial docs now. I am just waiting for my lawyer to get hers. I have a copy od a note that she was using when she went for a consult. One said gift money to her kids. I have a copy of a safety deposit key from the local bank. I heard her say she has 100k hidden. I know she made 45k investing last year and put in llc. I knkw this year she has done a little more of same. I know she is doing some 1099 work and is eamd is running it thru llc. I know she of some other stuff that is not very legal or ethical and the federal gov and her employer might not think fondly of. Just doing my 180 and waiting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Divinely Favored

Joka said:


> Ok, so when wayward wh*re wife asks "why don't you return my messages". What would be a good 180 response. I know what I want to say but a nice neutral 180 answer would be great delivered with a smile.


 "I will be glad to as soon as you answer the polygraph questions." Get the betrayal on paper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Joka said:


> We are doing financial docs now. I am just waiting for my lawyer to get hers. I have a copy od a note that she was using when she went for a consult. One said gift money to her kids. I have a copy of a safety deposit key from the local bank. I heard her say she has 100k hidden. I know she made 45k investing last year and put in llc. I knkw this year she has done a little more of same. I know she is doing some 1099 work and is eamd is running it thru llc. I know she of some other stuff that is not very legal or ethical and the federal gov and her employer might not think fondly of. Just doing my 180 and waiting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I'm not just talking financial docs. As LM suggested, you may need to get a forensic accountant. They can go through purchases, look at bank statements, check investments etc. and asses your marriage's true net worth. You can't trust her to "give" or you being able to "find" the correct documents. The penalties for hiding money can be severe and null any arrangements made in a divorce. It is basically fraud and can cause the liar major trouble.


----------



## turnera

Yes, it is worth the money to hire that forensic accountant. This is the one chance you'll get to prove it and get half of it. Not to hurt her, but because she tried to hide it.


----------



## Joka

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, I'm not just talking financial docs. As LM suggested, you may need to get a forensic accountant. They can go through purchases, look at bank statements, check investments etc. and asses your marriage's true net worth. You can't trust her to "give" or you being able to "find" the correct documents. The penalties for hiding money can be severe and null any arrangements made in a divorce. It is basically fraud and can cause the liar major trouble.


Sounds like a good idea. Thanks! I will shoot my lawyer an email and see what is said. I know a while back when I mentioned I was pretty sure she would be hiding financials they said they follow the money trail and have tracked down hidden accounts. 
I will see what they say. Thanks again.


----------



## cool12

good idea to dig deep into the finances since you gave up $ to relocate with her.


----------



## Joka

cool12 said:


> good idea to dig deep into the finances since you gave up $ to relocate with her.


Wow! someone who gets it!


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Wow! someone who gets it!


joka,

I was wondering was there any clues in the relationship in your normal interaction that gave you any hint that she would be the type to decieve you in this way? To be one who would tend to get over on you?

I was just wondering if there were some red-flags in her personality type or how she handled the interaction with you.

Normally one of the traits that I've seen where one could be likely to do it is selfishness, another one is a feeling of superiority.

A selfish one would do it because they are not thinking about what you want, but what they want.

A superior one would do it, because they feel they are doing you a favour letting you take care of them, while they get banged by a "superior" male in their status.

Greed would be another quality that alot of cheaters would have.


----------



## harrybrown

When I was representing someone in an audit with an agency, the employee of the agency said I was a CPA and it meant that I couldn't pass again-per his view. A different employee was soon reassigned to the audit.

Judges do not like hiding of assets. nor do other agencies of the government. 

This is an important time for you to get a professional looking at all her transactions. You would be surprised what we find and what you may find. 

you are not in this LLC with her? something really deceptive is going on, in addition to all the other moral cheating.

It will be so good for you to have her out of your life. It can cost to get the information, but it will be worth it.


----------



## Joka

treyvion said:


> joka,
> 
> I was wondering was there any clues in the relationship in your normal interaction that gave you any hint that she would be the type to decieve you in this way? To be one who would tend to get over on you?
> 
> I was just wondering if there were some red-flags in her personality type or how she handled the interaction with you.
> 
> Normally one of the traits that I've seen where one could be likely to do it is selfishness, another one is a feeling of superiority.
> 
> A selfish one would do it because they are not thinking about what you want, but what they want.
> 
> A superior one would do it, because they feel they are doing you a favour letting you take care of them, while they get banged by a "superior" male in their status.
> 
> Greed would be another quality that alot of cheaters would have.


D). All of the Above.
Looking back of course I see more red flags than at a Russian Parade but when in the thick of it I knew something was up but I could not put my finger on it. When I started digging I was finding something new out everyday. That is one of the reasons I lasted 5 months before I started the divorce process. It was like reading a book you couldn't put down. I wanted to know it all, of course I never will and had to just stop at some point because I couldn't keep feeling sick everyday.
Now she is texting me "I love you" and I don't want a divorce". But WTF!! Does she really think that if I R'd that all would be fine. This is one Phvcked up person


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> D). All of the Above.
> Looking back of course I see more red flags than at a Russian Parade but when in the thick of it I knew something was up but I could not put my finger on it. When I started digging I was finding something new out everyday. That is one of the reasons I lasted 5 months before I started the divorce process. It was like reading a book you couldn't put down. I wanted to know it all, of course I never will and had to just stop at some point because I couldn't keep feeling sick everyday.
> Now she is texting me "I love you" and I don't want a divorce". But WTF!! Does she really think that if I R'd that all would be fine. This is one Phvcked up person


She's trying to get your normal response to "i love you". Yeah they are phucked up, in some professions and career fields there are an abundance of cheaters.


----------



## Philat

treyvion said:


> She's trying to get your normal response to "i love you". Yeah they are phucked up, in some professions and career fields there are an abundance of cheaters.


:iagree: Joka, if you have to tell her anything tell her that whether or not SHE wants a divorce is immaterial.


----------



## treyvion

Philat said:


> :iagree: Joka, if you have to tell her anything tell her that whether or not SHE wants a divorce is immaterial.


We already optimized the discussion is that there is no discussion. She is a powerful manipulator so there really is nothing to discuss. I think he should plan his life going forward and working on growing some of the confidence that was shaken and taken by her.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yep, MAJOR manipulation. Yeah, sorry, there is more going on than the affair. Be very careful. Keep all your information hidden and "close to the vest." The more you type the less I like the situation. An LLC, borrowing money against the house, 70/30 split, in business with an "ex" not you, hidden accounts, and secret safety deposit box?
I knew two people that did things like this, keyword is "knew." They were shady as hell. Won't say what they did, but make sure you talk to your lawyer about covering yourself. You do not want to go down with the proverbial "ship," when you didn't know you were on one.


----------



## lordmayhem

That also means he should be storing any evidence in a safe place that she cannot access.


----------



## warlock07

Joka said:


> D). All of the Above.
> Looking back of course I see more red flags than at a Russian Parade but when in the thick of it I knew something was up but I could not put my finger on it. When I started digging I was finding something new out everyday. That is one of the reasons I lasted 5 months before I started the divorce process. It was like reading a book you couldn't put down. I wanted to know it all, of course I never will and had to just stop at some point because I couldn't keep feeling sick everyday.
> Now she is texting me "I love you" and I don't want a divorce". But WTF!! Does she really think that if I R'd that all would be fine. This is one Phvcked up person


Cheaper if you stick around


----------



## MrHappyHat

Joka said:


> D)
> Now she is texting me "I love you" and I don't want a divorce". But WTF!! Does she really think that if I R'd that all would be fine. This is one Phvcked up person


She doesn't care about reconciliation. She just wants you under her control again. 

Happy. Sad. Despondent. Ecstatic. She doesn't care. Just so long as you are under her control.

Because if you aren't under her control, you may tell the truth about her. That would create problems for her, and we can't have that now, can we?


----------



## seasalt

Do you think she would still claim to want to remain married if she knew the extent of the information about her actions and thinking? Is she only saying so to engage you to find out what you know?

If you're sure about disolving the marriage you should try to find some way to speed up the process. If you're unsure you're going to have to have a substantive discussion with her.

Good luck,

Seasalt


----------



## Squeakr

seasalt said:


> Do you think she would still claim to want to remain married if she knew the extent of the information about her actions and thinking? Is she only saying so to engage you to find out what you know?
> 
> If you're sure about disolving the marriage you should try to find some way to speed up the process. If you're unsure you're going to have to have a substantive discussion with her.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Seasalt


This is NC, so there is no speeding it up. Only two ways to get D in NC, 3 years of separation due to insanity, or a 1 year separation for all others. NC likes to consider themselves pro-family so there is no fast track to D within this state. It takes exactly 1 year and 1 day from the point of "official" separation.


----------



## Joka

Ok, so I have been doing a really good 180. I am proud of myself for that. I have to endure knowing that when she came home the other night she was with someone. I try to tell myself, "do not care'.
Anyway, so I am lying in bed and I get this great idea. We have a wireless stereo system that you go to Pandora on your phone and choose your songs from the playlist and it runs through the Sonos system. Well the Pandora account is mine that we go to automatically without thinking about it. SoI added to the list for when she goes on and wants to play the stereo she will have to scroll through to get to her Katy Perry. Here is my list: (these are actual songs)- Skank Radio, Cheater Cheater Radio, The Wh*res Radio, River of Deceit Radio, Eat Shlt and Die Radio, You lost me Radio, Carolina Liar Radio, Liar Radio, Lying is Most Fun a Girl Can Have with Their Clothes on Radio, The Fling Radio, I'm on to You Radio, Na Na Hey Hey Good bye Radio... Childish yes, but Phuck it. It made me feel good.


----------



## GusPolinski

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## Healer

Joka said:


> Ok, so I have been doing a really good 180. I am proud of myself for that. I have to endure knowing that when she came home the other night she was with someone. I try to tell myself, "do not care'.
> Anyway, so I am lying in bed and I get this great idea. We have a wireless stereo system that you go to Pandora on your phone and choose your songs from the playlist and it runs through the Sonos system. Well the Pandora account is mine that we go to automatically without thinking about it. SoI added to the list for when she goes on and wants to play the stereo she will have to scroll through to get to her Katy Perry. Here is my list: (these are actual songs)- Skank Radio, Cheater Cheater Radio, The Wh*res Radio, River of Deceit Radio, Eat Shlt and Die Radio, You lost me Radio, Carolina Liar Radio, Liar Radio, Lying is Most Fun a Girl Can Have with Their Clothes on Radio, The Fling Radio, I'm on to You Radio, Na Na Hey Hey Good bye Radio... Childish yes, but Phuck it. It made me feel good.


Brilliant.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Ok, so I have been doing a really good 180. I am proud of myself for that. I have to endure knowing that when she came home the other night she was with someone. I try to tell myself, "do not care'.
> Anyway, so I am lying in bed and I get this great idea. We have a wireless stereo system that you go to Pandora on your phone and choose your songs from the playlist and it runs through the Sonos system. Well the Pandora account is mine that we go to automatically without thinking about it. SoI added to the list for when she goes on and wants to play the stereo she will have to scroll through to get to her Katy Perry. Here is my list: (these are actual songs)- Skank Radio, Cheater Cheater Radio, The Wh*res Radio, River of Deceit Radio, Eat Shlt and Die Radio, You lost me Radio, Carolina Liar Radio, Liar Radio, Lying is Most Fun a Girl Can Have with Their Clothes on Radio, The Fling Radio, I'm on to You Radio, Na Na Hey Hey Good bye Radio... Childish yes, but Phuck it. It made me feel good.


You've done about the best of anyone on here considering your situation. It was wise to not to try to get your cheater to be committed and accept the communication of her actions. Excellent success story using a VAR and gps as well.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Joka said:


> Ok, so I have been doing a really good 180. I am proud of myself for that. I have to endure knowing that when she came home the other night she was with someone. I try to tell myself, "do not care'.
> Anyway, so I am lying in bed and I get this great idea. We have a wireless stereo system that you go to Pandora on your phone and choose your songs from the playlist and it runs through the Sonos system. Well the Pandora account is mine that we go to automatically without thinking about it. SoI added to the list for when she goes on and wants to play the stereo she will have to scroll through to get to her Katy Perry. Here is my list: (these are actual songs)- Skank Radio, Cheater Cheater Radio, The Wh*res Radio, River of Deceit Radio, Eat Shlt and Die Radio, You lost me Radio, Carolina Liar Radio, Liar Radio, Lying is Most Fun a Girl Can Have with Their Clothes on Radio, The Fling Radio, I'm on to You Radio, Na Na Hey Hey Good bye Radio... Childish yes, but Phuck it. It made me feel good.


Fking brilliant. 

Now where's the supalike button?:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

So now she's blatantly going out seeing people ? I thought she loved you. I thought she was trying to convince you she wasn't up to anything. So now that she knows D is on the way she is saying "fvck it " and going out to get laid?

It's like another LoveMyJava story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> So now she's blatantly going out seeing people ? I thought she loved you. I thought she was trying to convince you she wasn't up to anything. So now that she knows D is on the way she is saying "fvck it " and going out to get laid?
> She came late at night silently went upstairs and went directly in the shower. Usually you alelways know when she walks in the door. Plus I know what she was doing.
> 
> It's like another LoveMyJava story.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

bandit.45 said:


> So now she's blatantly going out seeing people ? I thought she loved you.  I thought she was trying to convince you she wasn't up to anything. So now that she knows D is on the way she is saying "fvck it " and going out to get laid?
> 
> It's like another LoveMyJava story.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We all knew the fake remorse wouldn't last long.

Cheater behavior is soooooooooooooo predictable. All you have to do is hang around here long enough and just observe and you can literally become very well educated on infidelity. Seriously. No diploma needed.


----------



## bandit.45

Joka said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fvcking pathetic. Just pathetic.


----------



## lordmayhem

bandit.45 said:


> Fvcking pathetic. Just pathetic.


:iagree:

But not surprising.


----------



## bandit.45

She thinks "Well the cat is out of the bag. Might as well enjoy myself while I wait for the divorce."

Shallow. Shallow and selfish.


----------



## Ripper

Makes writing that check out to the attorney a little bit easier.


----------



## Joka

Update:
So I went away this weekend alone to go to a function. When I got back last night she started in on me about how much the lawyer is costing her and how we need to talk, (this 180 thing really works!). So I am not giving her much of a response and she starts to ramp up the volume, at one point I thought her head was going to spin around. No problem for me, I just stare at this freak. She almost sucked me in and I started to say stuff like "I know you were screwing around sometime around when we were married and when you came home one day last week you had a _good time_". Then it REALLY Ramped up so I shut down again. After all the lies ended on how I have my info all wrong and the person who is telling me this is wrong and I better watch myself, (_did I just hear a threat_), I just said "I know an awful lot and you deceived me for 13 years. I made life changing decisions based on us at a time when you were screwing around". Maybe I said too much but it wasn't anything I have not said early on. She then tells me on how she can't concentrate and almost had rear end collisions. I said, "now you have just a small portion of what I went through back when I found about you. Welcome to my world".
So this morning I start out of the house and she yells down from upstairs to take checks that need to be signed for something. I was in a hurry and grabbed them and left. Later on I look at what it all is and she gives me a check to deposit in our house account that I pay the bills with. She always has just direct deposited it in now she wants me to do her deposits for her. I guess their still needs to be a little more work on this 180 and how I am not her errand boy. She will get the check back tonight. It is a small thing but I am not connected to her or care about her well being anymore.


----------



## turnera

Em, not sure I would do that where money's concerned. Don't make that her hill to die on so that she stops contributing.


----------



## Joka

turnera said:


> Em, not sure I would do that where money's concerned. Don't make that her hill to die on so that she stops contributing.


She can stop contributing anytime. The mortgage is in her name. I am on the deed. I write the checks out to the bills.


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Update:
> So I went away this weekend alone to go to a function. When I got back last night she started in on me about how much the lawyer is costing her and how we need to talk, (this 180 thing really works!). So I am not giving her much of a response and she starts to ramp up the volume, at one point I thought her head was going to spin around. No problem for me, I just stare at this freak. She almost sucked me in and I started to say stuff like "I know you were screwing around sometime around when we were married and when you came home one day last week you had a _good time_". Then it REALLY Ramped up so I shut down again. After all the lies ended on how I have my info all wrong and the person who is telling me this is wrong and I better watch myself, (_did I just hear a threat_), I just said "I know an awful lot and you deceived me for 13 years. I made life changing decisions based on us at a time when you were screwing around". Maybe I said too much but it wasn't anything I have not said early on. She then tells me on how she can't concentrate and almost had rear end collisions. I said, "now you have just a small portion of what I went through back when I found about you. Welcome to my world".
> So this morning I start out of the house and she yells down from upstairs to take checks that need to be signed for something. I was in a hurry and grabbed them and left. Later on I look at what it all is and she gives me a check to deposit in our house account that I pay the bills with. She always has just direct deposited it in now she wants me to do her deposits for her. I guess their still needs to be a little more work on this 180 and how I am not her errand boy. She will get the check back tonight. It is a small thing but I am not connected to her or care about her well being anymore.


They where right when they said she's show a demonic side when she realizes she lost control and your support is removed. 

I thought she was going to stay gone on her sex party until the divorce is final. Figures your gone anyway might as well keep on doing what she's doing so she won't get down about it, is what she's thinking.


----------



## Joka

Oh, I also called her a skank and a wh*re. My exact quote was "I did not know I married a wh*ore". 
Ooops, I do get sucked in a little at times.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Don't waste words on her. It's pointless.


----------



## Jasel

Joka said:


> Oh, I also called her a skank and a wh*re. My exact quote was "I did not know I married a wh*ore".
> Ooops, I do get sucked in a little at times.


You know it felt good though


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> Oh, I also called her a skank and a wh*re. My exact quote was "I did not know I married a wh*ore".
> Ooops, I do get sucked in a little at times.


All of these words are energy and it will affect your state of mind. I'd been done with her and focused on what I'm doing with my life. Perhaps pick up something that I have let slip while messing with her and make a commitment to it. 

The period of time your in now is perfect to take on new commitments.


----------



## dubsey

ok, you've said your piece, now the next time, just simply state...

"listen, let's not do this. it's done. I'm done, you were never truly committed anyway, so let's just divide and get it over with and be on our merry way"

she'll of course, deny, follow up with "we both know that's not true. Let's just get this done"

she's not worth your energy any longer.


----------



## Joka

All good advice. See this is why I come here. I need a tune up every so often.
Thanks all


----------



## treyvion

Joka said:


> All good advice. See this is why I come here. I need a tune up every so often.
> Thanks all


I would look at these exchanges as "trading". She has nothing to "trade" with you of value. I'd start talking with people and getting around ones who can move my life in a stronger direction. People who can help you improve your career, your money management, your physical fitness.

I would be done exchanging with her and never look back. Maybe check on her in a year or so. But believe me, if you can put her behind you and any person who keeps you thinking about the situation you will be miles and miles ahead.


----------



## bandit.45

Joka said:


> Oh, I also called her a skank and a wh*re. My exact quote was "I did not know I married a wh*ore".
> Ooops, I do get sucked in a little at times.


It may not be kosher 180, but I have no issue with you doing that. Just don't make a habit of it. She'll use whatever ammo you give her to make you look like the bad guy. 

Do her kids and family know what she did? What are their reactions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The Middleman

Joka said:


> Oh, I also called her a skank and a wh*re. My exact quote was "I did not know I married a wh*ore".
> Ooops, I do get sucked in a little at times.


What was her reaction?

BTW: When are you going to expose?


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> It may not be kosher 180, but I have no issue with you doing that. Just don't make a habit of it. She'll use whatever ammo you give her to make you look like the bad guy.
> 
> Do her kids and family know what she did? What are their reactions?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her kids and family as far as I know do not know. She freaked a while ago that I might tell them. I am keeping that in my back pocket as a bargaining chip.


----------



## Joka

The Middleman said:


> What was her reaction?
> 
> BTW: When are you going to expose?


Her reaction to my wh*re comment was very calm after her doing the drama freak out scene. "don't call me that"


----------



## TRy

Joka said:


> I have to endure knowing that when she came home the other night she was with someone. I try to tell myself, "do not care'.


 So just over two weeks after you learn of her cheating and tell her that you want a divorce, at a time that she claims that you have it all wrong and she wants to save the marriage, she brings another man home to your house? Are you kidding? Talk about a remorseless cheater.


----------



## Squeakr

TRy said:


> So just over two weeks after you learn of her cheating and tell her that you want a divorce, at a time that she claims that you have it all wrong and she wants to save the marriage, she brings another man home to your house? Are you kidding? Talk about a remorseless cheater.


Reading prior posts, she was just "out" with someone else and didn't bring the person home to the house. He knew she was out with someone else and came home alone after that outting.


----------



## bandit.45

Joka said:


> Her kids and family as far as I know do not know. She freaked a while ago that I might tell them. I am keeping that in my back pocket as a bargaining chip.


I would tell her that if she continues sneaking out at night and meeting up with sex partners, that promise may be retracted. If she can't respect your wishes for a little respect, why should you roll over and let her do whatever she wants. Not fair man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Psych

Don't get sucked in. The 180 will always be the best and most frustrating thing for her to deal with. Your silence will driver her insane. Your goal with at this point is to build up indifference to her. It's going to be hard. The anger and resentment will always bubble on the surface. The key is to remember this one little thing.

The person you see now is the person she's always been. The person you fell in love with was an act. She was never that person. She is and was always the person you see now. 

Your heart is torn up because you remember the times before you discovered her true self. Remember she's a selfish lie spewing, ego maniac. Stay strong. Just because she doesn't see the value in you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Be true to yourself. Be selfish with yourself. You deserve fidelity, honesty, respect, compassion, and love. She will never be able to give that to you. 

Strive for indifference. It will take time. Don't beat yourself up too badly if you have those occasional outbursts. In stress times, lean on this community here for support or to vent. You're not alone.


----------



## bandit.45

How are you doing Joka? What is the atmosphere like there at your house?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

Psych said:


> Don't get sucked in. The 180 will always be the best and most frustrating thing for her to deal with. Your silence will driver her insane. Your goal with at this point is to build up indifference to her. It's going to be hard. The anger and resentment will always bubble on the surface. The key is to remember this one little thing.
> 
> The person you see now is the person she's always been. The person you fell in love with was an act. She was never that person. She is and was always the person you see now.
> 
> Your heart is torn up because you remember the times before you discovered her true self. Remember she's a selfish lie spewing, ego maniac. Stay strong. Just because she doesn't see the value in you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Be true to yourself. Be selfish with yourself. You deserve fidelity, honesty, respect, compassion, and love. She will never be able to give that to you.
> 
> Strive for indifference. It will take time. Don't beat yourself up too badly if you have those occasional outbursts. In stress times, lean on this community here for support or to vent. You're not alone.


Joka,

I wouldn't be sleeping in the same physical residence as her. 

Like many of the TAM members, getting sucked into going back and forth and tit for tatting can take over your life for years. You wanted to avoid this and get on with your life.

There was nothing less to say to her, nothing to fight about or fight for.


----------



## Squeakr

treyvion said:


> Joka,
> 
> I wouldn't be sleeping in the same physical residence as her.
> 
> Like many of the TAM members, getting sucked into going back and forth and tit for tatting can take over your life for years. You wanted to avoid this and get on with your life.
> 
> There was nothing less to say to her, nothing to fight about or fight for.


In his state, he can't leave the residence until the separation agreement is settled, or she can claim abandonment and he would lose all claim to the property. Until legally covered on that aspect, he could lose all claim to the residence and equity involved there within. He is doing the best thing and what is right for the situation by living in another room until this matter is settled/ cleared up and then he can leave the residence without fear of retribution. The only exception would be where safety is a concern (which isn't the case at this time).


----------



## treyvion

Squeakr said:


> In his state, he can't leave the residence until the separation agreement is settled, or she can claim abandonment and he would lose all claim to the property. Until legally covered on that aspect, he could lose all claim to the residence and equity involved there within. He is doing the best thing and what is right for the situation by living in another room until this matter is settled/ cleared up and then he can leave the residence without fear of retribution. The only exception would be where safety is a concern (which isn't the case at this time).


It's amazing they can force you to stay in the same house with the betrayer. I mean it's your money, if you keep paying the bill and stay in a hotel or with a friend how can that be a problem? 

She's going on these weekend romps and for a week at a time, why can't he be unavailable to the home for this much time?


----------



## Squeakr

treyvion said:


> It's amazing they can force you to stay in the same house with the betrayer. I mean it's your money, if you keep paying the bill and stay in a hotel or with a friend how can that be a problem? Also the mortgage is in her nam solely he has stated, so no bills for him to pay there. As long as the two parties agree amicably, he could leave without issue as well, but in his case she is not willing to do this and therefor he puts himself at risk if he just leaves without the legal documents in place.
> 
> She's going on these weekend romps and for a week at a time, why can't he be unavailable to the home for this much time?


The state can't "force" you to do anything (hence the exception for safety reasons), but if safety is not an issue she has a good case for abandonment if he leaves. He has the capability to leave for short periods as well. The issue arises with intent. If he leaves without intent to return (which is evident from the divorce proceedings he has started) then she has a case for abandonment. She has claimed that she doesn't want the D, so that would be her defense along with her times gone are for work, so she can claim those defenses and she has work documentation to prove it. Vacations and such are also exempt as long as you intend to return. Once a separation agreement is in place or a lawsuit to divorce has been filed in the court, then he can leave without retribution or fear of abandonment, but without those in place he has little defense so he must bide his time until legally covered.

It is screwy and I hate the state for it, but the same thing happens when kids are involved (which is where I am at) that if you voluntarily leave, then you could be considered abandoning for custody reasons as well. 

The state likes to consider itself very pro-family and wants to "think" they are doing as much as they can to help keep families together by having these shameful little laws and rules in place. In the end all they are doing is creating more issue for the family to get on with their life and start healing.


----------



## treyvion

Squeakr said:


> The state can't "force" you to do anything (hence the exception for safety reasons), but if safety is not an issue she has a good case for abandonment if he leaves. He has the capability to leave for short periods as well. The issue arises with intent. If he leaves without intent to return (which is evident from the divorce proceedings he has started) then she has a case for abandonment. She has claimed that she doesn't want the D, so that would be her defense along with her times gone are for work, so she can claim those defenses and she has work documentation to prove it. Vacations and such are also exempt as long as you intend to return. Once a separation agreement is in place or a lawsuit to divorce has been filed in the court, then he can leave without retribution or fear of abandonment, but without those in place he has little defense so he must bide his time until legally covered.
> 
> It is screwy and I hate the state for it, but the same thing happens when kids are involved (which is where I am at) that if you voluntarily leave, then you could be considered abandoning for custody reasons as well.
> 
> The state likes to consider itself very pro-family and wants to "think" they are doing as much as they can to help keep families together by having these shameful little laws and rules in place. In the end all they are doing is creating more issue for the family to get on with their life and start healing.


The laws would serve to make a man feel he is trapped and can do nothing about it, so he would avoid divorce if he could.

If I were him, I would return, and working within the laws of the state sleep outside of the house a good portion of the time. It's not being scared of her or anything, it's just going to help with his closure and healing.


----------



## Squeakr

treyvion said:


> The laws would serve to make a man feel he is trapped and can do nothing about it, so he would avoid divorce if he could.
> 
> If I were him, I would return, and working within the laws of the state sleep outside of the house a good portion of the time. It's not being scared of her or anything, it's just going to help with his closure and healing.


Except it just is not the state's laws in effect but the city or municipality as well. In some parts, being out of the house without notice for more than 48 hours without the spouse knowing where the other is and intent to return can be considered abandonment, and RO's/ PO's can be obtained and locks changed. In which case then he would need to get the police involved to get back into the house, etc and create more documentation to weed through. 

Sometimes it is just easier to maintain the status quo for the short time until all is legally cleared. I think he is doing the right thing and holding his own fine. He has lived with it for a long time, so what is another few weeks, possibly a couple months in the grand scheme. It is hard to sit back and watch with baited breath, but when the end is seen and what one stands to gain versus lose, it is worth the little extra effort and consolations.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Yep. Had family from NC. Lawyers then advised the same thing. Don't leave, or it's construed as abandonment.


----------



## Squeakr

U.E. McGill said:


> Yep. Had family from NC. Lawyers then advised the same thing. Don't leave, or it's construed as abandonment.


Yep, Unless faced with the obscure< and sometimes obscene, laws of this state first hand, most can't understand or grasp just what one faces when trying to D in this state. In comparison, it might be better than a few but compared to most it is so backward here.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Squeakr said:


> Yep, Unless faced with the obscure< and sometimes obscene, laws of this state first hand, most can't understand or grasp just what one faces when trying to D in this state. In comparison, it might be better than a few but compared to most it is so backward here.



Now I also had a buddy whose wife stepped out. He threatened the OM with marital interference lawsuit and got a very favorable settlement. So backwards can work in your favor too.


----------



## treyvion

U.E. McGill said:


> Now I also had a buddy whose wife stepped out. He threatened the OM with marital interference lawsuit and got a very favorable settlement. So backwards can work in your favor too.


Most would like this part, especially if it tends to be enforced.


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> How are you doing Joka? What is the atmosphere like there at your house?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing new. I went out town to see family for a few days. WW was out of town when I left. She has texted me that she wants to talk house and money because the lawyer is costing her a fortune, (side affects of being an adulterer). I emailed my lawyer and she said do not talk about anything specific. Okey doke.


----------



## bandit.45

Joka said:


> Nothing new. I went out town to see family for a few days. WW was out of town when I left. She has texted me that she wants to talk house and money because the lawyer is costing her a fortune, (side affects of being an adulterer). I emailed my lawyer and she said do not talk about anything specific. Okey doke.


Oh how awful for her. Must be terrible to have to take the money she was going to spend on cheap motel rooms for her hookups and spend it on a lawyer instead.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Oh how awful for her. Must be terrible to have to take the money she was going to spend on cheap motel rooms for her hookups and spend it on a lawyer instead.


Let me break out the violin.
Too effing bad for her.


----------



## tom67

Without getting specific, any headway on her financials did your lawyer file a motion/citation to discover assets?
I file those on occasion.


----------



## Joka

tom67 said:


> Without getting specific, any headway on her financials did your lawyer file a motion/citation to discover assets?
> I file those on occasion.


We are waiting for her financials to come in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Joka said:


> We are waiting for her financials to come in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


good


----------



## Joka

It is 11:30pm on Sunday and I just got home after being away since Tuesday. I never told her where I went. (I just went out of state to visit grand kids). Boy is it chilly in this house. I like it like that. That means she does not talk to me. . . good. She did text me this morning Happy Fathers Day. I did not respond. She will blow up sooner or later. I can feel the tension. Anyway, off to bed.


----------



## lordmayhem

Joka said:


> It is 11:30pm on Sunday and I just got home after being away since Tuesday. I never told her where I went. (I just went out of state to visit grand kids). Boy is it chilly in this house. I like it like that. That means she does not talk to me. . . good. She did text me this morning Happy Fathers Day. I did not respond. She will blow up sooner or later. I can feel the tension. Anyway, off to bed.


Your 180 is strong!

:allhail:


----------



## bandit.45

She thinks she can wear you down. 

You're doing good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting2014

Good!


----------



## WhiteRaven

Joka - 180-fu master....


----------



## treyvion

WhiteRaven said:


> Joka - 180-fu master....


he's done.


----------



## cool12

i wish some other posters could find the strength he has and stop being doormats.


----------



## treyvion

cool12 said:


> i wish some other posters could find the strength he has and stop being doormats.


I don't really call what he's doing "strength". It's just being "smart" because he knows what he's dealing with. 

He has been a good example for the rest who keep getting sucked into a bad relationship with endless optimism.


----------



## cool12

strength, smarts, cajones whatever. he's not letting her play him and it will serve him well in the end.


----------



## Joka

cool12 said:


> i wish some other posters could find the strength he has and stop being doormats.


I thank you all for your support. It is what makes me able to do this. 
I had this conversation today that sleeping on 5 - 6 hours a day and staying out of the house from 6:30am to 10:30 pm is getting tiring but I do not ever let on to my ww that it is wearing on me. 
I am not as strong as you all mention but I keep staying focused. I am going from point A to point B. There is no other option.

I find that I can not really talk about it to anyone because they just don't get it. I even had my daughter in law kind of giving me a hard time that I could reconcile or even acknowledging on how hard it is to deal with a spouse who's lifestyle is infidelity.
It is one of those things that you have to experience it to know and every ones situation will affect them differently. 
My world feels like it came to an end because my career and family are tied to it. It feels like a triple whammy. Loss of career, loss of my children because I moved away and loss of someone that I thought was married to me but to find out only one of was married. That makes it a loss of 13 years of life.
Told ya, I'm tired and am rambling.


----------



## Chaparral

This too shall pass. There is still a bright future for you because you ARE a good person.


----------



## treyvion

Chaparral said:


> This too shall pass. There is still a bright future for you because you ARE a good person.


He may as well pass this with flying colors, look back on that chapter as a success and be a superb bachelor who understands his own offering and his own game.


----------



## treyvion

Hey Joka. I was thinking... You are done with the wifey anyway. No chance for coming back.

Why not say:

"Well, you can have your boyfriends, but they are going to have to make some significant financial contributions around here. I'm not taking care of any one elses girlfriend. And while your at it, I'm going to do what I have to do."

I know it's crazy, but in the situation where they are going to do it anyway it is a choice.


----------



## Squeakr

treyvion said:


> Hey Joka. I was thinking... You are done with the wifey anyway. No chance for coming back.
> 
> Why not say:
> 
> "Well, you can have your boyfriends, but they are going to have to make some significant financial contributions around here. I'm not taking care of any one elses girlfriend. And while your at it, I'm going to do what I have to do."
> 
> I know it's crazy, but in the situation where they are going to do it anyway it is a choice.


For her, after talking to her lawyer she realizes that one A or several doesn't change her case so why change her behavior and just continue to enjoy the ride (literally and figuratively), although if he changes his lifestyle and dating habits before the separation agreement is signed, it can affect him negatively. The end is getting closer in sight so it is in his best interest to maintain the high road rather than hurt his case.

Keep up the good work Joka.


----------



## Joka

Squeakr said:


> For her, after talking to her lawyer she realizes that one A or several doesn't change her case so why change her behavior and just continue to enjoy the ride (literally and figuratively), although if he changes his lifestyle and dating habits before the separation agreement is signed, it can affect him negatively. The end is getting closer in sight so it is in his best interest to maintain the high road rather than hurt his case.
> 
> Keep up the good work Joka.


My heart is not into going out to meet anyone else. Plus, I want to stay clean to the end with no worries.
When I started all this sometime ago the first thing that came out of her mouth was, "I know you been with that one and I know you go out with this one". I just laughed. It was so not true and such a stretch I was able to just say "go for it". It feels good to not have any skeletons in the closet.


----------



## Squeakr

Yep, mine never tried to play that game with me, as she knew better, although she did get ugly going the opposite way, by claiming "I know you haven't been with anyone else, as no one else would have you or be with you."

Now she is finding out that her actions are hurting her more than she thought. She suspected she was pretty clean except for the A's but she now sees that they are hurting her more than she can believe.

It is good to know that you took the high road and kept your vows intact by not doing the same as she did.


----------



## bandit.45

Joka said:


> My heart is not into going out to meet anyone else. Plus, I want to stay clean to the end with no worries.
> When I started all this sometime ago the first thing that came out of her mouth was, "I know you been with that one and I know you go out with this one". I just laughed. It was so not true and such a stretch I was able to just say "go for it". It feels good to not have any skeletons in the closet.


An old deflection trick right out of the cheaters handbook.


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> An old deflection trick right out of the cheaters handbook.


I think she hit every single line in the cheater handbook


----------



## bandit.45

Joka said:


> I think she hit every single line in the cheater handbook


She carries the Gold Leaf edition around with her everywhere doesn't she?

Has she been out on any nighttime romps since you got back?


----------



## Joka

bandit.45 said:


> She carries the Gold Leaf edition around with her everywhere doesn't she?
> 
> Has she been out on any nighttime romps since you got back?


No, only been back 2 nights. She actually did yard work over the weekend while I was gone. She was probably _gone_ a lot when I was, who knows.


----------



## bandit.45

Joka said:


> No, only been back 2 nights. She actually did yard work over the weekend while I was gone. She was probably _gone_ a lot when I was, who knows.


You can count on it. 

God Joka I hope she's not doing that Craigslist meetup sh!t! The idiot is going to catch herself a nice disease.


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## GusPolinski

Joka said:


> No, only been back 2 nights. She actually did yard work over the weekend while I was gone. She was probably _gone_ a lot when I was, who knows.


*cough* shehiredsomeonetodoit!

*cough* lawncrewgangbang!


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## WhiteRaven

GusPolinski said:


> *cough* shehiredsomeonetodoit!
> 
> *cough* lawncrewgangbang!


Dude, you need to quit smoking. Like. yesterday.


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> *cough* shehiredsomeonetodoit!
> 
> *cough* lawncrewgangbang!


As long as they weren't clowns:lol:


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## GusPolinski

WhiteRaven said:


> Dude, you need to quit smoking. Like. yesterday.


LOL. I haven't smoked in years, but I get what you're saying. :smthumbup:



tom67 said:


> As long as they weren't clowns:lol:


Midget BDSM clowns from Central America, actually. They probably roped the family dog into it as well.


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## tom67

Gus there was a troll story here once where a guy said he caught his wife with clowns in a gangbang:rofl:
Sorry end threadjack


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## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Gus there was a troll story here once where a guy said he caught his wife with clowns in a gangbang:rofl:
> Sorry end threadjack


LOL. I don't recall that one, though I have heard reference to it. It must have been before my time. I do, however, remember reading through the "lawn crew gangbang" thread 2-3 months ago. The mods caught that one pretty quickly, though.

And then there was the "KaySara" thread from last month. Ugh.


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## Decorum

tom67 said:


> Gus there was a troll story here once where a guy said he caught his wife with clowns in a gangbang:rofl:
> Sorry end threadjack


I wish that clown story would just go away.

Clowns scare me.


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## Squeakr

Decorum said:


> I wish that clown story would just go away.
> 
> Clowns scare me.


"What kind of scary @ss clowns did you have at your birthday party??"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSLp-m5XctM


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## Decorum

bandit.45 said:


> An old deflection trick right out of the cheaters handbook.


Its true.

She likely has not been honest and transparent for some time. just add guilt and it becomes a suitable breeding ground for suspicion.

Her whole self identity and value system is such a mess.


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## bandit.45

Decorum said:


> Its true.
> 
> She likely has not been honest and transparent for some time. just add guilt and it becomes a suitable breeding ground for suspicion.
> 
> Her whole self identity and value system is such a mess.


And if there is truly such a thing as sex addiction, and if she is an addict, then that magnifies everything tenfold... Because she is not going to stop. 

Joka do you know if she was molested, raped or abused growing up? There has to be a reason for this rampant promiscuity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Here is that scary clown movie

Stephen King's "It" (Georgie Scene) - YouTube


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> And if there is truly such a thing as sex addiction, and if she is an addict, then that magnifies everything tenfold... Because she is not going to stop.
> 
> Joka do you know if she was molested, raped or abused growing up? There has to be a reason for this rampant promiscuity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree:
Good point


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## Decorum

Squeakr said:


> "What kind of scary @ss clowns did you have at your birthday party??"
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSLp-m5XctM


Clown PTSD it all came out under hypnotic regression. 
The shrink said that as long as I stay on my meds that I was no longer a danger to society, but I showed him.
Muwahahahaha!

Sorry got carried away there, clowns were always just strangers in costumes to me, creepy creepy creepy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt

Decorum said:


> Clown PTSD it all came out under hypnotic regression.
> The shrink said that as long as I stay on my meds that I was no longer a danger to society, but I showed him.
> Muwahahahaha!
> 
> Sorry got carried away there, clowns were always just strangers in costumes to me, creepy creepy creepy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

:lol: :rofl:


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## cool12

you guys are evil!


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## larry.gray

bandit.45 said:


> And if there is truly such a thing as sex addiction, and if she is an addict, then that magnifies everything tenfold... Because she is not going to stop.
> 
> Joka do you know if she was molested, raped or abused growing up? There has to be a reason for this rampant promiscuity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


52 years old. That's a HECK of a long time to be behaving this way. If you figure she got started between 12 & 14 we're talking close to 40 years of this behavior.


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## Decorum

3putt said:


>


You are evil!


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## 3putt

Decorum said:


> You are evil!


LOL...just messin' with ya' brother.


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## Wolfman1968

treyvion said:


> Hey Joka. I was thinking... You are done with the wifey anyway. No chance for coming back.
> 
> Why not say:
> 
> "Well, you can have your boyfriends, but they are going to have to make some significant financial contributions around here. I'm not taking care of any one elses girlfriend. And while your at it, I'm going to do what I have to do."
> 
> I know it's crazy, but in the situation where they are going to do it anyway it is a choice.



I wouldn't advise that. It would give them an opportunity to exert some sort of power/authority in your home on the basis of financial contribution.


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## GusPolinski

treyvion said:


> Hey Joka. I was thinking... You are done with the wifey anyway. No chance for coming back.
> 
> Why not say:
> 
> "Well, you can have your boyfriends, but they are going to have to make some significant financial contributions around here. I'm not taking care of any one elses girlfriend. And while your at it, I'm going to do what I have to do."
> 
> I know it's crazy, but in the situation where they are going to do it anyway it is a choice.





Wolfman1968 said:


> I wouldn't advise that. It would give them an opportunity to exert some sort of power/authority in your home on the basis of financial contribution.


Pssh, I wouldn't worry about that. After all, no one is gonna buy the cow (at least not that one) as long as they're getting the milk for free.


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