# Abandonment: As bad as infidelity?



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

This came up during counseling recently. My W's perception is that I abandoned both her and the family for 3-4 yrs, choosing career over marriage. And for someone who takes meds to treat BPD, "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment" was a big symptom. When this separation happened (early 2000s), her disorder had not yet been diagnosed properly and her medication was not correct in either type or dosage. She is much better now with effective treatment.

I may be repeating for those who already know our backstory, but there were problems in the marriage prior to my multiple deployments in the military after 9-11. We both treated each other badly at times, but the abandonment led to multiple relationships outside of marriage. Recent post on TAM (again) are trying to equate a sexless marriage as a contributing factor to infidelity. But what about abandonment? If one spouse chooses to leave for years is that breaking the commitment of the marriage vows? Is choosing to go off to fight the war "for better or worse", or does that violate the "living together as one in holy matrimony, to have and to hold, etc".

If your spouse came home one day and said "I need to leave for 3-4 years for my job. It's really important to me. You good with that"? How would you react?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

are you saying that she saw deployment as the same as abandonment? and she is using that an an excuse for cheating? that is seriously messed up thinking.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Were you in the military when you two married? Did she know at that time that there was a chance that you could be deployed for long periods of time?

IMO, abandonment is as bad as infidelity and yes it is breaking the marriage vows. But I'm not sure that a service member being deployed can be called abandonment. There would have to be more than just that for it to be considered breaking your vows.

That said, a lot of people cannot handle their spouse being deployed. It's a known fact that long separations destroy a lot of marriages. Add to that your wife's BPD and other issues and I can understand why your wife would feel that it was abandonment. Not fair to you as you had not choice but to go when you are deployed by the military. Your only other choice would have been to resign from the military and get a new job. Sometimes that's what is needed.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> This came up during counseling recently. My W's perception is that I abandoned both her and the family for 3-4 yrs, choosing career over marriage. And for someone who takes meds to treat BPD,


BiPolar 1 or 2 or Borderline?


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> but there were problems in the marriage prior to my multiple deployments in the military after 9-11. We both treated each other badly at times, but
> 
> If your spouse came home one day and said "I need to leave for 3-4 years for my job. It's really important to me. You good with that"? How would you react?



You treated each other badly before you were deployed.

And your wife is a military wife and military husbands get deployed because that is the job agreement.

Far different than coming home one night and saying-

Hey Hon- Google is transferring me to Bali and you ain't invited. Bye!


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## GuacaColey (Sep 19, 2017)

Depends on how you define abandonment. 

A man putting his job as a priority so he can provide for his family may be hurtful, but does not meet my definition of abandonment. 

Kicking your wife to the curb because you decided you weren't the marrying type and wanted to live the bachelor life? To me that's abandonment. 

People have different definitions though I guess, and that's not wrong. 


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

She was well aware that I was already in the military and wanted to make it a career when we decided to marry. But would it make a difference to know that I volunteered to be gone? I remember calculating my pay and it was over double to deploy overseas vs staying in the US.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> She was well aware that I was already in the military and wanted to make it a career when we decided to marry. But would it make a difference to know that I volunteered to be gone?


No. You did not abandon her unless you cut contact and did not provide financial support. Unless you tried to get deployed to avoid her, it isn't even neglect. She is needy and chooses to look at it this way for her own purposes, which seems to be to make you the bad guy in her story. For what purpose? To dump you, or guilt you into a decision that you would not make rationally? What does she want from this delusional version of events?


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Bipolar or Borderline?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> She was well aware that I was already in the military and wanted to make it a career when we decided to marry. But would it make a difference to know that I volunteered to be gone? I remember calculating my pay and it was over double to deploy overseas vs staying in the US.


How long were each of the deployments, an which were ones that you volunteered for?

I think that you volunteering for deployments does count. You chose to be away from her. Your reason seems to be largely motivated by money. But clearly, she and your relationship with her were not your priority.

Have you ever read "His Needs, Her Needs"? The book talks about the importance of spending quality time together to maintain the relationship. There have been many scientific studies that show that this is important in a relationship. It has a lot to do with maintaining the levels of dopamine, oxytocin and other feel-good bonding hormones at high enough levels in the brain. Most people cannot maintain the necessary connection to their spouse without that constant quality time.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sandcastle said:


> BiPolar 1 or 2 or Borderline?


Borderline Personality Disorder.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> How long were each of the deployments, an which were ones that you volunteered for?


I was lucky as I was in the position to volunteer for all 3 back-to-back deployments. Of course, add to the mix that I didn't tell her about my intention to deploy again until after I had accepted follow-on assignments that were already scheduled to leave. And a 6-9 month deployment turned into 12 months because I agreed to stay longer to help train the replacement forces.

The dwell time policy wasn't officially established until later, when the military finally realized the skyrocketing levels of divorce, suicide, PTSD, etc.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> Borderline Personality Disorder.


You do realize that Borderline cannot be treated with drugs.
She may be Comorbid with Bipolar which the Bipolar can be treated with meds.

At any rate- living with this is not easy for either of you and your extended absence is another challenge for any spouse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> I was lucky as I was in the position to volunteer for all 3 back-to-back deployments. Of course, add to the mix that I didn't tell her about my intention to deploy again until after I had accepted follow-on assignments that were already scheduled to leave. And a 6-9 month deployment turned into 12 months because I agreed to stay longer to help train the replacement forces.
> 
> The dwell time policy wasn't officially established until later, when the military finally realized the skyrocketing levels of divorce, suicide, PTSD, etc.


Why did you choose to deploy instead of staying where your wife was? Since you volunteered for most of the deployments that covered 3-4 years, you chose to not be with her. To me, that does not sound like a man who really cared all that much for his wife.

Did you know at the time that she was emotionally fragile, bi-polar, etc?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Background so you know where I'm coming from regarding my opinion as to whether you abandoned your wife or not:

My father was military and then worked as an advisor after he retired. He was gone for 4 years, not all at the same time, while I was growing up: Vietnam, Korea, and Iran (advising the Shah before he was overthrown.)

My mother was very lonely and worried whenever he was gone because he was in danger, and because she married him because she wanted to be with him. She also had a difficult time with my older siblings when they were teenagers, and could have really used my dad's presence and support. Her depression definitely wore off on me, and influenced the home. I don't blame her, it is just a fact.

I knew I never wanted to be married to a military man, since I knew deployment to dangerous areas for long periods was part of the job description. I also didn't want to be alone for much of my marriage, while my husband was off by himself advancing his career, or serving our country.

At one point in my life, an Air Force Cadet was interested in me, and I told him I did not want to date him for the reasons explained above. He was kind, smart, had a bright future, and was handsome, but all that didn't override the fact that I didn't want to ever be married, yet have to live years away from my husband.

My husband, who is not military accepted a job several years ago that took him away from home, which put in motion my reason for being here on TAM. He is still working in that field and is gone for many days at a time. I feel abandoned. He must leave because that is part of the job, and he wants to provide for the family. I have resentment against him because he willingly applied for the job and chose it. He did not ask me if I minded if he took jobs that took him away from home. After all, since he "was advancing his career." he thought he should be able to take any job that worked for him (not me.)

His being gone has been very difficult for not only me, but our children. They have gotten to the point that they don't even miss him anymore when he is gone. They love him, but they don't like their emotions going up and down all the time because he is constantly going and coming for a few days. He misses out on a lot of important events in their lives as well.

If you applied for the deployment without your wife's agreement, and then took the position without her 100% agreement, I would say that you did abandon her. Her being BP or not, you did not get her consent.

Can you take your family with you? My family went with my father when he was deployed to safe regions. It was very fun!


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Maj,

Funny you should post this because the most profound sense of abandonment I ever felt was when I found out about OM1 and my W. She had gone to another country for a few months prior to that, but that never felt like abandonment because we were still in love.

Abandonment goes hand in hand with infidelity.

Tamat


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> This came up during counseling recently. My W's perception is that I abandoned both her and the family for 3-4 yrs, choosing career over marriage. And for someone who takes meds to treat BPD, "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment" was a big symptom. When this separation happened (early 2000s), her disorder had not yet been diagnosed properly and her medication was not correct in either type or dosage. She is much better now with effective treatment.
> 
> I may be repeating for those who already know our backstory, but there were problems in the marriage prior to my multiple deployments in the military after 9-11. We both treated each other badly at times, but the abandonment led to multiple relationships outside of marriage. Recent post on TAM (again) are trying to equate a sexless marriage as a contributing factor to infidelity. But what about abandonment? If one spouse chooses to leave for years is that breaking the commitment of the marriage vows? Is choosing to go off to fight the war "for better or worse", or does that violate the "living together as one in holy matrimony, to have and to hold, etc".
> 
> If your spouse came home one day and said "I need to leave for 3-4 years for my job. It's really important to me. You good with that"? How would you react?


And your wife cheated on you how many times, last time was last year right? She also was writing books about you if I remember right. What doses she say to that? Your wife has BPD her perception of reality is off. It isn't going to get better.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

First - thank you for your service. 

I live in a big military area and I have a few friends who have spouses who deploy often. Before knowing them, I assumed deployment was something you "had" to do. I didn't know that you could also volunteer to do it, or volunteer to make those deployments last longer. 

I honestly don't know how my friends do it. Especially the one that has a husband who volunteers for back to back deployments. He is commonly gone for 11 months of the year, and back for only 4-6 weeks before he leaves again. They have young children at home and he never sees them. I just don't understand how a marriage can thrive under those conditions. From what he has told me, it's also a decision motivated by money since it pays so well, but what price are you REALLY paying being gone all of that time?

I am like the previous posters who said they could not do it. I could not do it. I would not marry or seriously date anyone who had a career that involved extended traveling or deployments. 

On one hand, she married you knowing you were military and that you'd be deployed some of the time, right? Maybe she overestimated her ability to be OK with it. 

If my husband had just come home from a deployment and told me he VOLUNTEERED to immediately leave again, I would be devastated. Or if he volunteered to stay longer than he was supposed to. It would be crushing. It would 100% make me feel that I was not important to him at all. I would certainly feel abandoned. And I don't have BPD. 

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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

IIRC, you encouraged her to date while you were deployed because you intended to as well. Something like an open marriage during that time. But maybe she liked the idea more than you thought she would once you opened that can of worms. Would she if you had not suggested it? Who knows. At this point, you'll never figure it out. 

I married young. My husband was in the reserves on active duty for a very limited time (the draft was still in effect). I doubt I would have married him if he had wanted to stay in. Those separations would have felt too much like abandonment. If she's really BDP, maybe she didn't realize what she was getting into with deployments until it was too late so, yes, I can see that she felt you abandoned her -- especially after you encouraged her to date while you were gone.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Araucaria said:


> Background so you know where I'm coming from regarding my opinion as to whether you abandoned your wife or not:
> 
> My father was military and then worked as an advisor after he retired. He was gone for 4 years, not all at the same time, while I was growing up: Vietnam, Korea, and Iran (advising the Shah before he was overthrown.)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the perspective Araucaria. Many days doesn't seem too bad but I guess it is based on your needs. I remember being gone 3 Christmas's, 3 birthdays, 3 anniversaries in a row. And they were not safe places which didn't allow for families.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Lostinthought61 said:


> are you saying that she saw deployment as the same as abandonment? and she is using that an an excuse for cheating? that is seriously messed up thinking.


Abandonment as a contributing factor. She has expressed full responsibility for her choices during that time, but said she felt lonely.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

kag123 said:


> First - thank you for your service.
> 
> I live in a big military area and I have a few friends who have spouses who deploy often. Before knowing them, I assumed deployment was something you "had" to do. I didn't know that you could also volunteer to do it, or volunteer to make those deployments last longer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the honest insight Kag. This is almost exactly what my W expressed as to how she felt about my decisions to be gone. I heard another counselor use a lawn analogy: water, care for and feed your lawn or weeds may show up.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Openminded said:


> IIRC, you encouraged her to date while you were deployed because you intended to as well. Something like an open marriage during that time. But maybe she liked the idea more than you thought she would once you opened that can of worms. *Would she if you had not suggested it? Who knows. At this point, you'll never figure it out.*
> 
> I married young. My husband was in the reserves on active duty for a very limited time (the draft was still in effect). I doubt I would have married him if he had wanted to stay in. Those separations would have felt too much like abandonment. If she's really BDP, maybe she didn't realize what she was getting into with deployments until it was too late so, yes, I can see that she felt you abandoned her -- especially after you encouraged her to date while you were gone.


I'll never know for sure, but my guess is yes. 

I certainly learned to never suggest a hall pass if I have to be gone. To her that demonstrated I didn't care about her and that I probably was doing my own thing. It's funny that I have had to be gone for weeks at a time in my career since leaving the military, and not once have I felt concerned about what she was doing.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> She was well aware that I was already in the military and wanted to make it a career when we decided to marry. But would it make a difference to know that I volunteered to be gone? I remember calculating my pay and it was over double to deploy overseas vs staying in the US.


Oh wow...yes, that absolutely makes a difference. Mandatory deployment is one thing, but to volunteer to be away from your wife for months at a time? 




MAJDEATH said:


> I was lucky as I was in the position to volunteer for all 3 back-to-back deployments. Of course, add to the mix that I didn't tell her about my intention to deploy again until after I had accepted follow-on assignments that were already scheduled to leave. And a 6-9 month deployment turned into 12 months because I agreed to stay longer to help train the replacement forces.
> 
> The dwell time policy wasn't officially established until later, when the military finally realized the skyrocketing levels of divorce, suicide, PTSD, etc.


Add to that you didn't even discuss it with her first?? Oh my.

Yep, you abandoned her. I would feel abandoned too, and I don't have BPD either.


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## Louise McCann (Jul 23, 2017)

You never abandoned her, you may have neglected her though during your deployment. Unfortunately, those were the demands of your job and she knew what she was signing up for.

BPD sufferers often react from fear of abandonment, and will act irrationally in order to stop or prevent this perceived abandonment. Apologies if I am mistaken...but didn't your wife cheat on you? That doesn't really sound like what someone who was so fearful of being abandoned would do to counteract it. A cheater is a cheater, some cheaters might have BPD and many don't. Not all BPD-ers are cheaters. I think she was simply gaslighting you and shifting the blame to your supposed 'abandonment' of her.

A few doctors have suggested that I may have BPD although I have never been formally diagnosed. I have said and done many things to people that I am not proud of, but I have never cheated so BPD is a crap excuse for infidelity.

Your deployment wasn't abandonment. Ultimately, one of my greatest fears came to life and I was abandoned by my STBX. We had an argument but he was running late so we both said our bye's coldly. He walked out the door, sent me a break up text, and then simply cut me out of his life, cold turkey. He still hasn't seen our daughter either. To have someone you loved so deeply suddenly switch from "I love you" to having every trace of them completely wiped out from your life in an instant...was pure sh*t. I had never felt so defeated before and day-to-day living became physically painful.

What really hurt was the realisation that person I loved didn't love me at all and probably never had. Is it as bad as infidelity though? I don't think I am in a position to answer that without any infidelity experience. However, there were moments I had wished my STBX had cheated on me instead. I thought in that case he would at least still be with me and wanted to be in my life. 

I am not minimising the trauma of infidelity by any means, just expressing how I felt at times. Real abandonment can feel like grieving over the death of a loved one, but with the fond memories tainted by the deceit & betrayal, knowing it was all a probably a lie. Ok that kind of sounds like infidelity too.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Some posters seem to mix up two types of abandonment

1. Physical abandonment - where a spouse is never around and does not meet the physical or financial needs of the other spouse
2. Emotional abandonment- where a spouse's emotional needs are not met due to lack of communication, lack of physical presence etc

The latter is difficult to identify and affects women more than men as they have a greater need for emotional intimacy, intimate conversation, etc.

Men are often content to work hard, many weeks away from home as they are providing for the wife and children. Yes they miss the family but it has much less impact on them as they are meeting needs of the male ego to be a provider.

For years my H has traveled for work all over the world and when I had the kids at home I managed as I had my job and the kids to keep me fully occupied. However now that they are gone I notice the gap between us. 
It seems to bother me much more than it bothers him. I get really antsy if I have had no one-on one - time with him after a few days. I know it is not his fault but then he will choose a golf game at the weekend rather than spend time with me and think nothing of it and wonders why I am pissed off. 
Then I made sure I was not always available on his terms and he has begun to notice. He now thanks me if I make time for him when I am busy and says he is glad I came home to have dinner or see him off at the airport. After all it is supposed to be a give and take process. My feeling is that many men do not realise that emotional needs of the woman are quite strong.
However, that is never a reason to cheat, it may be a contributing factor to the problems in the marriage, but there are other ways to deal with that, cheating is never one of them.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Based on what has been said in counseling, in her mind she viewed my long-term departure on the same level as cheating. So her eventual relationships with others during that time was the equivalent of revenge affairs. 

The question is, would she have had them if I had not choose to be gone for so long?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Openminded said:


> IIRC, you encouraged her to date while you were deployed because you intended to as well. Something like an open marriage during that time. But maybe she liked the idea more than you thought she would once you opened that can of worms. Would she if you had not suggested it? Who knows. At this point, you'll never figure it out.
> 
> I married young. My husband was in the reserves on active duty for a very limited time (the draft was still in effect). I doubt I would have married him if he had wanted to stay in. Those separations would have felt too much like abandonment. If she's really BDP, maybe she didn't realize what she was getting into with deployments until it was too late so, yes, I can see that she felt you abandoned her -- especially after you encouraged her to date while you were gone.


Is this true - you told her to date other people while you were gone and that you would date too? 

I have no idea why she didn't divorce you then! 

If my H said this to me, I'd be drawing up those divorce papers. 

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## alwayshope123 (Oct 20, 2017)

I think your biggest mistake was making the decision without her. She may have agreed to the deployment knowing it would set the family up financially but you were gone for YEARS without her opinion. 

If you could go back what would you do differently? Have you tried to tell her what you wish you could change? Without really looking at what you have done to hurt her you can't fix this. You have to understand her pain. 

Also- being gone for 4-6 years taught her she can do this on her own and she doesn't need a man. 

You have a tough road and for that I am sorry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Openminded said:


> IIRC, you encouraged her to date while you were deployed because you intended to as well. Something like an open marriage during that time. But maybe she liked the idea more than you thought she would once you opened that can of worms. Would she if you had not suggested it? Who knows. At this point, you'll never figure it out.


Wow, that is a new one for me. I didn't know that. Now maybe she is not as bad as I thought. Still doesn't excuse the foot-rubs last year. Is there some paternity confusion in this relationship too? I don't remember.


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## Thestarsarefalling (Apr 16, 2017)

I was the wife of a soldier who deployed for a year with multiple periods of separation for trainings lasting 5-4 months at a time. He joined after we were married. I didn’t want him too but felt like I could support him. 

Absolutely deployment was not an abandonment for me. It was an investment. You had to put the time into your career, money in the bank. This seems very apparent to me. Seems like you should have discussed it with her and decided together if you should take extra deployments but if your wife was anything like my husband he would be unwilling to actually talk and make decisions together. Discussing plans was very hard and eventually I would just have to start making decisions on my own. He would always put obstacles in the way and decide to keep things the same. 

My deployed husband felt like I abandoned him while he was away. I didnt sit around waiting for him but worked and went to school. We emailed nearly everyday and I sent packages once or twice a month but he still felt like I should have done more to “be there for him” while deployed. I didn’t want to here about any scary or dangerous situations he was in and now he says that was me abandoning him. He really disconnected from me on the deployment. 

Now 8 years later he says that explains his bad behavior towards me and his attempts to get involved with another woman twice since then. When he came back I had no idea how messed up he was for many years. 

So no, I don’t think it’s abandonment but not everyone can tolerate the distance well either.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

In many places, abandonment is grounds for a divorce.


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