# Hello



## Kersmack

Hello, I have been reading the forums here for about the past week. I have been married on paper to my wife for just short of 2 years, we have been together for 11. Im 29 she is 28 We have 3 children, 4,7 and 11. My wife had an affair last saturday. I found this out because monday morning she told me she doesnt think she loves me anymore. 

The thursday befor we went out and had a few drinks, did karaoke we had a great time. While at the bar she introduced me to some of her co-workers and some regulars, they all seemed nice. The DJ is a much older man, around 50. When she introduced us, he told me "I was sure lucky to have her." I smiled and said "dont I know it." She told me how much she loved me on our way home.

Friday she asked the DJ on facebook if he noticed if I smiled or not when he asked me, cause she was looking the other way. He said "I think so, but I think he thought it was funny." 

She works at a local sports bar here, for the last 3 months. She did not come home untill 4:56 saturday morning. It had also just had a snow storm here. When I asked her what happened she said "they did not get out of the bar till 3, and the roads were slick then she had a drink with her GF she gives a ride home to."
Which I had no problem with, because thats is equal to me stopping after work and having a beer. Regardless I asked her "next time call cause I was worried with the roads."

Sunday night I went to her bar for a beer and to watch the football games, she was acting like I would exspect her to act at work, busy being a waitress. She told me they were going to the bar near our home, on sundays they have laddies night. This was a knew thing to me, I did not know she had a ladies night. But I gave it no thought really. 

Sunday night when we got home and went to bed, she seemed mad at me and moved away from me in our bed. I asked her if everything was ok, she said now is not the time.

Monday morning when we woke up, I thought maybe she was just mad at me for being at ladies night. I asked her to talk to me about it, and I asked if something was wrong. She said yes, and I asked with us? And she said "I dont think I love you anymore" I was floored. I asked why, and whats going on. She said she did not know, it was just me. I asked what she meant, she said she does not know. She said its as if she has been falling out of love with me for the last few months. 

At this point I had no idea about the affair, so I honestly thought we had marital issues, and she had just been suffering trying to fix them without telling me about them. I made breakfast, and she showered, I went to our bedroom and her phone was on the bed. I looked in her phone trying to find any clues as to what was going on. She had a message sent to someone named Jon. It read "I left my shirt at your house" he replied "your so damned sexy". I was lost. She had to work that night, and said she just needed some space and was going to go stay at a GFs house for a few drinks and she would be home late. She sent me a text message at 3:04 in the morning telling me "still hanging out, going to be late." she did not come home untill 10:35 tuesday morning.

Tuesday she gets home with my truck, cause our car had the window broken out monday morning, just after 2 in the morning and befor 4. I had been trying to call her and send text messages, but she did not answer. I thought maybe her phone died. Yeah. 

When she walked in, she immediately said "Im sorry, I passed out on the couch, and my phone was in the kitchen" and kissed me. She said she needed a nap and tossed some laundry into the hamper, I was loading the washer befor she got home. I grabbed what she had thrown, and it was a light jacket and two shirts. I walked into the bedroom and asked if she had an affair, she said yes. I asked when and she said 1 month ago. And she did not feel bad about it. At this point, I was numb and told her we can work through this. I was still dealing with I dont love you anymore and thought oh god its just guilt from this affair. I asked her if she would work on this with me, and try counseling. She agreed.

I checked our phone bill, I had this Jon guys number and seen all the texts and calls he and she had had since the 11th of this month. All of them late at night, and after she was off work. But they had ended the 14th, So I knew it was ongoing.

For 4 days they did not text or call. I thought maybe she was realizing what was at stake. She had been coming home after work and everything. Thursday we had sex, and I know it was just sex, but I felt better. I think it was mostly due to the sleep deprivation. But she was talking and joking with me. I went grocery shopping, and had to deal with the kids school counseler, I also let him know what was going on, and asked how to handle this with our girls incase this cant be worked out.

At this point I had been reading these forums, and had been learning alot. About cheaters fog, the 180. I got home from my errands, she was leaving for work, kissed me and hugged me and said she may have a drink after work, but she is pretty tired. When she left I looked at the phone logs, she texted him the moment I walked out the door. I was disgusted. 

So I went after undisputable evidence to confront her. I went to the bar near our home, seen my truck was a text saying I was going to the bar for a beer, and ask if she wanted to stop by when ever she got off to have 1. She said no. I waited 5 minutes and walked in. I walked to the bar and ordered a beer, and seen her putting on her coat and heading to the door. 

I confronted her, now I know I lied to her, but I said whats going on? and she barked at me I was already here. I said so you send me no? and she walked outside. I called the guys number, cause I thought he would be in the bar. He answered but was not in the bar. I went outside to her and she yelled at me I said I would give her space, and this is the **** thats going to end this. That she could say so many mean things right now, if she was a cold hearted *****. 

I said what do you possibly think you could say to me that would hurt me anymore right now? you told me you had an affair a month ago. She said yes, it happened 2 times, it was just a fling with a guy from out of town. Then she said Im just here with the girls from work, which she was. And she told me she just needed space from me right now, cause she is feeling suffocated. I left.

Later she texted him and called him at 3:47 in the morning. I went to work that day and when I came home she unloaded on me about being in her contacts list. She took my phone from the counter and started looking in it for his number, which I had not saved. 

I calmly questioned her about the number, She said his name is Jon, he is just a friend. she said why. I said cause you call it alot late and get texts late. She said I work late, and I have alot of friends. So I put the evidence I had into effect, she would not stay still and talk to me about it as I pointed out times, dates etc. And was acting sarcastic, smiling while yelling at me. 

I got the impression as if she was in a corner. And when I said I read the texts from you and him, and then I found the shirt, you texted him right after I left yesterday, after we had sex. She said she wanted a divorce. I asked her if she was having an affair with him, she said no, we did have sex. I told her just stop lying to me, its pointless, we both know thats where you were last night, you called him at 3:57. 

She admited it, and cried. I told her I did not deserve this, she said she was so sorry for hurting me. This is the first remorse I had seen in her over it. I told her she needed to leave, we have no chance with a 3rd person. I said you need to end this affair, or get out of my house, cause you are poisoning me. I wont let you keep that in my life. She said she would end it.




Im sorry for the length of this, I needed to get it all out. Now for what I really would like some insight on.

After she told me she would end it, I asked her where she was going to stay. She said I dont know, I asked her how much money she had. She said whatever is under the counter, it is about $134.00 I wanted separation at this point.

I took about 30 minutes and came and told her, I was not lieing when I told you I care about you, and I love you. I love you right now even. I wont throw you out with nothing. But I will not stand for the affair. If you dont end it, I wont have any choice left but to remove you from my life.

She has been acting a world differant, but I understand she is an actress right now. She came home right from work last night, we will see tonight. She has not texted or called the number. 

I know its really really soon, but she is acting differant .. remorseful. In fact, she just sent ME a text telling me how crazy it was at work atm. Thanks in advance everyone, this has been the most painful thing I have ever known.


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## keko

Another GNO's, another affair. All men reading this, if you send out your women out for a ladies night out happily then don't be surprised when she cheats on you.

OP get STD tested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

Who is the other man? How did she meet him? Does she work with him? Is he a customer? Does she see him at work? After work? What are her work hours and what are yours?


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## Kersmack

He is 10 years older than me, I know his name, I know what he looks like. No they do not work together. She works nights, I work days. I do not know how they met yet.


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## Kersmack

Also, is thier a thread that has all the slang in it? I do not know what GNO's means. Thank you.


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## Will_Kane

Girls night out.


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## Kersmack

Thank you. As I said I had not known she was ahving GNO's untill I happened to not have to work the following monday, and stayed late at her work watching the football games.


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## Will_Kane

So, where do you stand now? Is your wife still living at home with you? Does she want to reconcile and work on the marriage? Has she ended it with the other man?


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## Kersmack

I honestly did not see the harm in letting her hang out with her GF's after work for a drink or 2 every sunday.


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## Kersmack

She lives at home still yes, this all came out over the last 5-7 days. She said she will end it. She said she does want to try.


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## keko

Kersmack said:


> She lives at home still yes, this all came out over the last 5-7 days. She said she will end it. She said she does want to try.


Why do you believe her? Wasn't she lying to you just days ago?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kersmack

Hard to explain, she just seemed really remorseful when she finally confessed to the affair. I guess I dont really believe her now, but I dont see the positive in not trying to believe her. I will remove her from my life if she has not ended it.


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## keko

You were lucky to catch her this time, what if she hides it better the next(and you know she will). What will you do then? Wonder days and night if she's cheating or not? Are you able to live like that, is that the kind of marriage you want to have?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

You don't have to answer those questions to me.

Just ask them to yourself and decide what to do accordingly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

If you have been reading here then you should know that exposure,and any blow back to the OM you can give are your best tools to end the affair.

Your wife is not going yo end it on her own. She's going to get a burner phone, and she is going to try to find a way to keep having sex with him.

To stop that you need to blow the affair out of the water through exposure to friends and family. 

Find out if the OM has a gf or wife. Exposure to her is a must.

I strongly suggest you put a gps tracker on your truck and her car. Also a voice activated recorder in her car.

She needs to be 100% transparent because it will help letting her slip him in under the guise of privacy.

Find where he lives do you can drive past to see if she s there.

And girls nights out are gone forever.

If she breaks no contact your next immediate step should be to get on the phone to family snd friends and tell them about the affair and name the OM.


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## Shaggy

Kersmack said:


> She lives at home still yes, this all came out over the last 5-7 days. She said she will end it. She said she does want to try.


Will end it is not the same as it has ended,

Don't give her a chance to end it, instead tell her it is over as of that moment and any contact will mean divorce.

Also as I said, you need yo go after the OM. Post him on cheaterville.com and send him the link.


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## Kersmack

Im more inclined to feel this was a ILYBINILWY. And I do not know to what extent I am at fault in our marriage for putting her in the position to even consider, let alone act on an affair. I dont know that she would ever do it again, speaking from my self I had cheated on her about 9 years ago, and I have NEVER thought about doing it to her again. But when I did, I felt the same way. I told her I did not think I loved her anymore. But I knew differant when I was not with the OW, I knew it was just sex. 

So I guess I would need 100% evidence from her that she ended the affair befor I can really answer that Keko.


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## keko

She won't give you the 100%, just enough to make satisfied.

I suggest you check up on her as Shaggy suggested via voice recorder in her car and either GPS tracker or you actually following her when she goes out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kersmack

I had followed her that 1 night, and I still feel like crap for it. I guess since I have a week off for the holiday I can. But its hard to cause we have 3 kids I cant leave here at night.


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## Shaggy

Serious exposure is a scary step to take. It is also very effective.

Have you read doccool .com? I'm guessing your wife is surrounded at work at the bar with cheaters and players. So she will be having advice on how to hide the affair after playing it cool for a bit.


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## keko

Do you have a family member or a close friend that can help you out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kersmack

My brother will, also I have told my family about the affair, and our mutual friends, but she has not been talking to her family or mine, or the mutual friends. Her phone records for the last 12 days have been not answering the above mentioned.


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## keko

Amp up the exposure. Make sure everyone involved in her daily life is aware of it and is pressuring her to stop the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kersmack

Well the only people that are in her daily life atm, are all people she has met from working at the bar. Im not really sure who I should tell at this time.


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## Kersmack

I know a few of the people she hangs out with, sort of. Like I said she has only been working at the bar for 3 months, befor that she was a stay at home mom.


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## Will_Kane

Tell her you love her and are willing to work on improving your marriage and yourself, but not if she is continuing the affair. Tell her that her lying and cheating have eroded your trust in her, she will need to take some actions in order to help restore that trust and help you to reconcile with her without feeling as if she might still be lying to you.

1. Ask her to to tell you all about the other man. His name. His address. His phone number. His email. How she met him. How it happened. Why she cheated with him. Ask her to write out a timeline, starting with the first time she met other man, including the first inappropriate thing that was said or done, how often they had sex, if they used a condom, what she planned to do if she became pregnant by him or got an STD from him, if they told each other they loved each other, and whatever else you need to know. If her story doesn't make sense, you will ask her to take a polygraph. How can you forgive your wife if you don't know what you are forgiving?

2. Ask her to get tested for pregnancy and STDs and give you the results. If you might be infected with a deadly disease, wouldn't you go to the doctor to get tested so as not to infect your loved ones, like your wife?

3. Ask her to handwrite a "no contact" letter to the other man. It contains no terms of endearment, no "I'm sorry this didn't work out," no "I will always think of you fondly," it begins simply with other man's name and ends with "signed," and your wife's name. It states how horribly ashamed your wife is of her behavior and how terrible she feels for risking losing her husband, who means more to her than anything in the world, and if other man ever attempts to contact her again in any way, shape, or form, she will file harrassment charges against him. No more, no less. Then she gives it to you to make sure it contains those things and nothing more and for you to mail to the other man. If you were in her shoes and you wanted to save your marriage and truly had no intention of ever communicating with or seeing this other person again, wouldn't you put this in writing to help your spouse get over what you did?

4. Ask her to give you complete access to all her communication devices and accounts, all passwords. Ask her not to delete any messages to or from anybody, nor her browsing history, if she needs something deleted, she should let you know and you will delete it. She cheated on you and lied to you repeatedly. What messages could she possibly be sending to or receiving from anyone that you, her husband, should not see?

5. She has to leave the job, otherwise, you will never know if he is coming in to the bar to see her and hook up with her. Your marriage will not survive if you cannot rebuild trust.

Tell her she has five minutes to agree to your requests or you will file for divorce. Tell your wife you cannot control her, only what you are willing to accept and not accept in a marriage, and you are not willing to accept her carrying on an affair while you are still married, and you are not willing to go on accepting her word that the affair has ended when she has lied to you about it in the past. You need to be able to verify it in order to rebuild trust. This can't go on forever, it is not healthy to constantly have to check up on someone, but it must go on for a while until some level of trust can be re-established. Tell her there is no place for secrecy in a marriage. Privacy is for the bathroom, everything else is secrecy.

If she refuses, expose the affair to you and your wife's close family and friends - parents, siblings, anyone who is close enough to have an influence on your wife. Tell them your wife has had an affair, you have reason to believe she plans to continue it, name the other man, and ask them to talk to your wife to support your marriage. Do not tell your wife you plan to do this or are doing it, just do it.

If the other man has a wife or girlfriend, expose the affair to her. Tell her what you know, let her see whatever evidence you have, and ask her to work with you to make sure the affair is over and stays over. Do this no matter if your wife agree to your requests or not. Do not tell your wife you are doing this. If she finds out, she probably broke the "no contact" she agreed to.

If your wife is upset about the exposure, tell her you are fighting for her and fighting for your marriage, and all you are doing is telling the truth.

Finally, purchase a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and put it under the seat of your wife's car. Monitor for at least 2-3 weeks to see if she re-establishes contact with the other man.


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## Will_Kane

Kersmack said:


> My brother will, also I have told my family about the affair, and our mutual friends, but she has not been talking to her family or mine, or the mutual friends. Her phone records for the last 12 days have been not answering the above mentioned.


Are you saying that they are calling her, but she refuses to answer their calls and talk to them?


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## tom67

Will_Kane said:


> Tell her you love her and are willing to work on improving your marriage and yourself, but not if she is continuing the affair. Tell her that her lying and cheating have eroded your trust in her, she will need to take some actions in order to help restore that trust and help you to reconcile with her without feeling as if she might still be lying to you.
> 
> 1. Ask her to to tell you all about the other man. His name. His address. His phone number. His email. How she met him. How it happened. Why she cheated with him. Ask her to write out a timeline, starting with the first time she met other man, including the first inappropriate thing that was said or done, how often they had sex, if they used a condom, what she planned to do if she became pregnant by him or got an STD from him, if they told each other they loved each other, and whatever else you need to know. If her story doesn't make sense, you will ask her to take a polygraph. How can you forgive your wife if you don't know what you are forgiving?
> 
> 2. Ask her to get tested for pregnancy and STDs and give you the results. If you might be infected with a deadly disease, wouldn't you go to the doctor to get tested so as not to infect your loved ones, like your wife?
> 
> 3. Ask her to handwrite a "no contact" letter to the other man. It contains no terms of endearment, no "I'm sorry this didn't work out," no "I will always think of you fondly," it begins simply with other man's name and ends with "signed," and your wife's name. It states how horribly ashamed your wife is of her behavior and how terrible she feels for risking losing her husband, who means more to her than anything in the world, and if other man ever attempts to contact her again in any way, shape, or form, she will file harrassment charges against him. No more, no less. Then she gives it to you to make sure it contains those things and nothing more and for you to mail to the other man. If you were in her shoes and you wanted to save your marriage and truly had no intention of ever communicating with or seeing this other person again, wouldn't you put this in writing to help your spouse get over what you did?
> 
> 4. Ask her to give you complete access to all her communication devices and accounts, all passwords. Ask her not to delete any messages to or from anybody, nor her browsing history, if she needs something deleted, she should let you know and you will delete it. She cheated on you and lied to you repeatedly. What messages could she possibly be sending to or receiving from anyone that you, her husband, should not see?
> 
> 5. She has to leave the job, otherwise, you will never know if he is coming in to the bar to see her and hook up with her. Your marriage will not survive if you cannot rebuild trust.
> 
> Tell her she has five minutes to agree to your requests or you will file for divorce. Tell your wife you cannot control her, only what you are willing to accept and not accept in a marriage, and you are not willing to accept her carrying on an affair while you are still married, and you are not willing to go on accepting her word that the affair has ended when she has lied to you about it in the past. You need to be able to verify it in order to rebuild trust. This can't go on forever, it is not healthy to constantly have to check up on someone, but it must go on for a while until some level of trust can be re-established. Tell her there is no place for secrecy in a marriage. Privacy is for the bathroom, everything else is secrecy.
> 
> If she refuses, expose the affair to you and your wife's close family and friends - parents, siblings, anyone who is close enough to have an influence on your wife. Tell them your wife has had an affair, you have reason to believe she plans to continue it, name the other man, and ask them to talk to your wife to support your marriage. Do not tell your wife you plan to do this or are doing it, just do it.
> 
> If the other man has a wife or girlfriend, expose the affair to her. Tell her what you know, let her see whatever evidence you have, and ask her to work with you to make sure the affair is over and stays over. Do this no matter if your wife agree to your requests or not. Do not tell your wife you are doing this. If she finds out, she probably broke the "no contact" she agreed to.
> 
> If your wife is upset about the exposure, tell her you are fighting for her and fighting for your marriage, and all you are doing is telling the truth.
> 
> Finally, purchase a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and put it under the seat of your wife's car. Monitor for at least 2-3 weeks to see if she re-establishes contact with the other man.


Find out who the OM is like Will said, if she balks get garbage bags and pack her sh!t up and take her to the OM's place then ring the doorbell and tell him she's all yours!


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## The bishop

She will cheat on you again someday unless you let her know in no certain terms what she could lose. You have to be willing to end it to save it. Just 3 months into her new surroundings, i.e. work, and already cheated. Not good bro.


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## Kersmack

Yes she has not been answering the calls from her family. Her family is 1300 miles away, we moved here for my work. I had family here, my parents, a brother and sister. I am almost 100% that is from the guilt, but you are right. The trust will be an issue. I guess atm im still just wanting it to be over, and want my wife back.


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## tom67

At this point "tough love" is the only chance of waking her up out of this fog.


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## keko

You do want her back but don't show it on the outside. Make her think you're about to dump her, so she has a reason to fix herself or be a divorced cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kasler

Thats not remorse, thats guilt. 

Crying, wailing, promises, etc. are all bullsh!t

Remorse is something you only see after at least several months, cause remorse causes lasting changes.

Guilt is only good for a few weeks or a month or so. 

You've seen nothing, so no matter how much you want to fall into a sense of security, don't.

Guilt = unwillingness to discuss affair, defensiveness, rugsweeping, temporary changes, 

Remorse = complete acceptance of actions, understands the gravity, lasting changes, etc. 

Also you need to treat your wife like a snake right now, no matter what the hell she says or does. When you confronted her she threw out divorcing you as a last defense just so she wouldn't have to admit her affair. Don't forget this

Red flag of a pretty moderate caliber, so you best watch closely my friend. 

Also you didn't expose after the 1st affair, and like most waywards she continued.

If you really want to make sure you have a chance at R you need to expose. To HER friends and family. Her parents who will now know that she cheated on her husband, and she will be the one to tell them to. Make this mandatory if she truly wants R. There can be no rugsweeping, no minimizing, and no hiding of the affair. If you want this to make a lasting influence on her and show her you're a man of respect, do so quickly.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Tough love, 180 and Exposure.
She should quit her job. What kind of a women comes home at 3 or 4 am drunk? You dont have a problem with this?

Get tested for STDs and ask her for the same.

She should send an NC to OM when you are present. Why you are giving her time to end it? Is it for her to go to his home and have some sex and say tearful goodbye?

If she is reluctant to send the NC and quit her job then pack her stuff and trow it at OMs home. 
Show her that you are not afraid to loose her.


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## Shaggy

She needs to stop working at the bar and find a better job. Bars are filled with guys looking to get laid, and your wife is surrounded by these guys each night.

No to minion the coworkers at bars contain a higher than Nirmal number of singles who like to sleep around and out right cheaters.


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## roostr

Kersmack said:


> I honestly did not see the harm in letting her hang out with her GF's after work for a drink or 2 every sunday.


Do you still feel the same way about this? You might want to think twice about this one.


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## Kersmack

We have seperate counseling setup for after the holiday, wednesday infact. Would it be wise to wait untill after that to make my demands?


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## Kersmack

Am I naive, tough love is just what it says, or is that another write up?


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## Acabado

To add to the boundaires/dealbreakers list:
*She quits this job today.*

She get STD test tomorrow.
She get rid of every toxic friend from bar
She tells you every person who knows


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## the guy

GPS and VAR (voice activated recorder) your diserve to protect your self from more deciet and more importantly verify your chicks recommitment.

You guys can get thru this but she has to do the heavy lifting with a NC (no contact) letter to OM, exposure, and WW (wayward wife) giving up her life of privacy and secrets.

If she can give you a huge amount of submission and in time you can truely forgive it can work out. 

I'm going on 3 years since d-day (discovery the affair day) and R (reconciliation) is going great.

My old lady comes home straight from work and has even gotten her scheadule changed so no more bartenting, just serving during the day. 

I think you did a good job on confronting...I though it to be very effective...now its just a matter of time to see if it sticks.

I suggest you give her a good spanking for being a bad girl, but thats just me.


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## the guy

The schedules that servers/waitress have can be a b1tch on a marriage...she needs days brother..it helped us alot. Finacially the tips suck for her, but you can't put a price on your marriage.

No good can ever come from being out working between 9PM and 3AM.

Another consequence for her behavior is changing shifts IMHO (in my humble opinion)


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## Kersmack

Well, tonight she has a x-mas thing at work, gift exchange. She said she is going to the bar near our home after, it closes at midnight tonight, and then will be at her gfs house that is 1 block from our home. 

I asked her about the affair, she said she stopped contact. I dont believe her. I bought a VAR and stuck it behind the cd player in her car today. I am sure I don't want to hear whats on it in the morning.


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## Kersmack

Should I wait to find out if she is still talking/seeing this guy befor I tell her family?


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## keko

A remorseful wife would have stopped working there not go out for some more drinks.

Have someone follow her tonight.


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## Kersmack

I dont know anyone that she does not that would follow her and hang at the bar :/ 

Also ... gargh. I told her I was going out tonight, she asked if I would go out early, so she could still have GNO cause none of them are bringing husbands/boyfriends. 

Should I wait till whats on the tape to blow this up? Im tired of feeling like im being threatened. Eeven if she has not threatened since the day she confessed.


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## jim123

You have your answer. She cheated and now wants a GNO. She will either be with him or another guy.

F the tape. You know what is going on. Take action.


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## keko

Find someone to either be in the bar with her or at the very least have someone follow her when she leaves the bar. It's highly likely she'll visit her lover tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kersmack

At this point, should I get her family involved? I dont want to blow our laundry all over without it being a must.


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## Phenix70

Forget the GNO, she already has GNO every single time she goes to work.
She needs to quit her job, no if's, and's or but's about it.
I wonder if the DJ from that one night is the one she's having the affair with, that was an odd question for her to ask.
Or if he knows who the OM is. 
I'm of the mind that when people say or ask things that seem to have an agenda, there's usually more to it than what they're trying to let on.


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## Kersmack

I would hope not, he is like 45+ Fat and balding. He is not an attractive man imo at all .... but I guess attraction is strange.


----------



## Shamwow

Given the urgency here (matter of hours), and the fact that she's already cheated and admitted it, not sure a last minute plea for intervention from her family helps you tonight. Just catch her tonight and boot her, as calmly as you can keep it together. Then talk to her family right away to explain what and why. Be brief and, again, as calm as you can muster.

If nothing happens tonight then you can reconsider your options. Good luck, know it's hard...you'll be okay one way or another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kersmack

This same guy from her FB she wrote " wow dude he showed up at Goodfellas last night. And I found out he was going through my numbers calling my friends. SSSSOOOOO Done." 

This was 1 day after she admited to the "fake affair" not the ongoing 1 with Jon.



He wrote "That's BS. I don't blame you for drawing the line. I know what he's doing and I also know it isn't going to help him at all. Honestly I did some of the same things he's doing with my last ex. I didn't want to lose her and I tried to hard to hold on and pushed her further away. I feel for him but he's lost you already and just needs to let you go. If he doesn't it's going to drive you both crazy and make it hart to even talk or be in the same room together. Sorry he's doing this to you. I'll talk to him if you need me to if he doesn't stop. Maybe talking to someone that's been in his position will help. See what happens after the counceling. See you tonight. 


She has known this douche for 3 months, Im pretty sure if he opened his mouth to me I would have to spend x-mas in jail. ... Cause the courts are closed.


----------



## Kersmack

I have no one that can spy on her in the bar, I can get a sitter for the girls. But If I go into the bar she will start a fight, and chances are not see him. I can wait and follow her, but what do I do if she really does just go to her GF's house? I am still feeling like I got bent over with her asking me to go out early, so we wont be in the bar at the same time.

It is BS isnt it ... She should have wanted me to go. Or at the very least not made that statement. Im not in a good place right now, really unsure what to do.


----------



## committedwife

Kersmack said:


> Hard to explain, she just seemed really remorseful when she finally confessed to the affair. I guess I dont really believe her now, but I dont see the positive in not trying to believe her. I will remove her from my life if she has not ended it.


Waywards are some of the trickiest people on earth. They'll swear on their mother's lives that the affair is over, and text their affair partner as soon as your back is turned. The affair is an addiction, and you need to treat it as such.

CUT OFF THE SUPPLY. That means she leaves the job if that's where the affair started. 

CUT OFF THE CONNECTION TO HER DRUG. Change her cell phone number, let her know that she can no longer do her little 'ladies' night out' dealie any longer - I mean, you seriously let her go to bars and get plowed???  Lunch with friends is one thing. Shopping with friends (of whom you approve) is one thing. Going out drinking in bars with ANYONE is something else entirely. Do you not know that there are men alone in bars, looking for women without a man by their side?? 

BE READY FOR HER ANGER. Because you're 'invading her privacy'. WHAT?? Privacy? Privacy is when you go to the bathroom. No, you're invading her SECRECY. Secrets have no place in marriage. (Other than Christmas presents, etc.) 

Who is this scumbag OM? Is he married and out trolling like your wife? His wife needs to know. 

Don't be lulled into believing the A is over unless your wife is willing to leave the scene of the crime and start over clean with you. I am concerned that the affair has gone underground with pay-as-you-go phones, etc. Waywards are crafty.


----------



## Kersmack

She did swear the affair was over, and that was 1 of my bounderies for her living in my house. If I throw her out and she had ended it, ill feel terrible.


----------



## the guy

Don't you have a bail fund? You know the money you set a side for when you fight...any anger managment guy knows you have to have a bail fund for all the fighting we do.

Any way you need to understand that affairs for chick aren't about looks, its all about some POS listening and saying all the right things. wayward chicks always affair down and sex is just the currentcy for the affair/friendship.

It really doesn't matter how fat you are, as long as you got got the gift for gap and don't have stinky breath your in with the lonely house wife crowd.


----------



## Kersmack

Money has been pretty tight, we have been saving for a house .. no she has no money, and I WILL NOT LEAVE my house. I am fully understanding SHE did this to me.


----------



## the guy

Kersmack said:


> I have no one that can spy on her in the bar, I can get a sitter for the girls. But If I go into the bar she will start a fight, and chances are not see him. I can wait and follow her, but what do I do if she really does just go to her GF's house? I am still feeling like I got bent over with her asking me to go out early, so we wont be in the bar at the same time.
> 
> It is BS isnt it ... She should have wanted me to go. Or at the very least not made that statement. Im not in a good place right now, really unsure what to do.


Phuck man she should stay home...either way your marriage is so fragile right now,the both of you need to be together not apart. She dosen't see it that way so that tells you were her priorities are!!!!

If she bails, I would consider this abandonment and tell her so, and tell her if she leave that she can stay gone, you will no longer share her with another man, help her pack and tell her to kiss the kids good by cuz she ain't coming back. But thats just me.


----------



## keko

Kersmack said:


> I can wait and follow her, but what do I do if she really does just go to her GF's house?


You can't know for sure until you or someone else follows her for you. But honestly what are the chances of her actually not cheating tonight? I'm afraid very slim.


----------



## the guy

Screw the stalking BS and tell her before she leave the new boundries and the consequences.

If my oldlady bailed for a GNO right now (after cheating on me for years with a alot of guys) I would pack her crap and put it in the garage.

See this infidelity crap is a game changer for me, having been there, I know I have to have boundries for my self and consequences for my wife when my boundries are crossed.


----------



## Kersmack

Ok, im going to call her and tell her if she goes out, to not bother coming home again.


----------



## the guy

You have boundries and she has choices. Ask her to leave. What is she going to do cheat....oh wait she already did that!

Brother its all about boundries, your boundries to not lose your temper and hit her, your boundries to stop sharing your wife and your boundries to have a commited healthy relationship.

her consequences ...well for starts find a place to live when Om gets tired of her.


----------



## the guy

Kersmack said:


> Ok, im going to call her and tell her if she goes out, to not bother coming home again.


You forgot to use the word "abandonment" thats the deal changer....she already wants out....its the consequence that will keep her from doing it

Tell her "since our marriage is so *fragile* and you infidelity issue, I would like you to stay home, but I will not control you and you can do what you want, but I have to consider your dicision as *abandoning* the family and will act accordingly by see what my options are. if you do make the choice to go out with out me then please respect me enough to not come back."


----------



## Kersmack

I think it would be better handled in person than over the phone, I can catch her on break. She is at work atm. I know body language says alot.


----------



## the guy

word like "fragile" "choices" "options" and "abandonment" will be new to her....she will expect the same old angry crap from you.

But if she sees a changed tone in your voice...one with confidence she may think twice...hell wish her the best and let her know you will do he same.


----------



## the guy

Kersmack said:


> I think it would be better handled in person than over the phone, I can catch her on break. She is at work atm. I know body language says alot.


She needs to see a new you so were some cloths you don't usually wear. 

Again these tactic are to show her you are different now, more confident, changing.......

The best tactic to get her to second guess her choice is by making your self look different. For her to thnk twice she has to see a different person then before....she's expecting the same old " I don't want you to go out iy makes me feel bad"


Stay away from words like "your feeling" "I'm uncomfortable"...she heard them before and if your chick had any concern for feeling and your comfort level you wouldn't be here.


----------



## Kersmack

I just cut all my hair off yesterday actually. And my beard. My hair was down below my middle back.


----------



## Kersmack

She noticed, so much she felt she needed to touch my face and run her hand in my hair.


----------



## Shamwow

I bet she noticed! Don't talk about it with her, it's just what you felt like doing. But don't forget what she's done, and is doing. Don't rush to reconcile, she needs to know how bad this is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## committedwife

Kersmack said:


> I had followed her that 1 night, and I still feel like crap for it. I guess since I have a week off for the holiday I can. But its hard to cause we have 3 kids I cant leave here at night.


Why do you feel like crap for wanting to know where your WIFE is?? You have absolutely every right to know where she is! Do NOT feel bad about that!


----------



## the guy

Keep raising your attraction level, again another tactic in getting her to think twice about her dicisions.


----------



## the guy

There are alot of things you can do in making your WW second guess her choices, and following her and confronting her in public is not something that will raise your attraction level...like I said before, she already cheated and is currently behave in such a way that doesn't work for you.

Sure you diserve to validate any commitment she made in the marraige by investigating her but doing it covertly is your best bet. The perception your WW needs to see is you moving on in a positive way and letting her go. She needs to taste the reality when you are no longer around by cutting her off finacially and emotionally.

In a way Mr. kareokee is right, with one difference, your wife has to feel you pulling away, a shift in power that tells her her action are in fact pushing you away and a perception of being confident in letting her go if her behavior continues....and word don't work.

Thats why action speak loader then words, when you get a hair cut and a shave, new clothes, and most important a new additude that you diserve good things and sharing your wife isn't one of them.


----------



## committedwife

Kersmack said:


> My wife had an affair last saturday.


No, she didn't. She has been having an affair longer than you know.


----------



## Shaggy

She has no money , then how is she paying from drinks on GNOs?

You know how, she's not buying drinks she's at the OMs having sex.

From the FB message it is clear the OM thinks he is safe from blow back. Time to prove him wrong.

1. Post OM on cheaterville.com
2. Make a flyer, it should read do you know Xxxx? Living at yyyy? Well you should check out his story of cheaterville.com and provide the URL. Then send or give those flyers to his neighbors, and maybe even send them to his boss and any family you can find for him on FB.

Go to war with him and you'll find he dumps your wife fast.

Brw, pretty sure she's going to his place tonight, grab her panties after she is home and put them in a zip lock. You'll be sending these to a lab for semen testing.


----------



## Kersmack

I called her, I gave her the option over the phone or in person. She said in person, I said my truck is out back, she said front.

I sat down and told her Melissa, I cant live like this anymore. Our marriage is slipping and you have cheated on me. I want you to come home after you trade gifts at work. No bar, no GFs house. But thats what I want, and you have your own choices to make, thats I cant force you to make. But if you do decide to go out, please dont come home.

She said what is your deal? you want me to drive by the house and check in befor i go to my gfs? do you want to go to my gfs? I told her it's not just that, the bar and you telling me not to be at it when you guys get there. Thats 100% unacceptable. She said fine go to the bar then. I said no, we are in a place right now that I dont want to be at a bar, I want to be at home so we can talk. 

She then said you know you are going to be bothered weather I come home tonight or not. I then said Melissa, you dont understand. If you dont come home tonight, after gifts, I dont want you coming home again.

She was shocked I think, and paniced. She jumped up and said ill just give my gift to someone here. I said ok, if thats what you want to do. And I left.

She called me twice with in like 5 mins, I did not answer. My feelings on this is, I said what I needed, and if she wants to be part of this family, she will come home. If not, well that helps point my direction.


----------



## Kersmack

She has now just texted me asking if I would like to go to the bar and to her GF's. I think I need to stand by what I said.


----------



## keko

Don't go back on your word. Otherwise she'll just cheat over and over and over again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kersmack

I did not, I told her I told you what I wanted. Tonight is not a good night for this.

She sent back Ok then.

Guess we will see.


----------



## Kersmack

I also don't think I should take any attitude from her if she does come back. Just my feelings, she is the lucky 1 here. Im not going to compromise on this.


----------



## Kersmack

I feel like im going to throw up now however.


----------



## Kersmack

Its pretty apparent what she has decided to do. Guess ill start cancling cards.


----------



## Kersmack

Should I go get my car?


----------



## Kersmack

Im sure she is at the bar with it.


----------



## tom67

Check it out if you can.


----------



## Kersmack

I did, she is still at the gifting ...


----------



## Kersmack

Here is the problem. She asked me in a text, So am I alowd to do the gifting still? I called her and told her I said you could do the gifting but needed to come home after.

I did not set any terms on how long the gifting would take. I lost it when she did not come back by 11, I went to the bar to lock up my truck and take my car. She was not there, I asked her if the gifting was done, she said not yet, it is taking forever. I drove to the apple bees, she was there.

I know damn well she had to have understood what I meant when I said no bar, no gfs house. She is pulling this BS on a technicality, and im not sure how to handle it, cause I did say she could do the gifting.


----------



## Kersmack

I was so mad, Im exshausted. Do I kick her out over this? Or give her the benifit of thinking I had no specific time frame in mind?
I'm just so tired right now.


----------



## Kersmack

Should I text her I would like her to wrap it up now? Or not contact her, and see where this ends?


----------



## Kasler

Kersmack said:


> I was so mad, Im exshausted. Do I kick her out over this? Or give her the benifit of thinking I had no specific time frame in mind?
> I'm just so tired right now.


Yes.

She just took one of the BIGGEST spousal dumps on your emotions and feelings as her life partner that I have seen in a long time. 

This is more than just some disrespect. This is her having hanging out with friends on a higher priority than fixing things with her husband.

This is her showing you just what to expect in the future, even after her affair. 

This is an unremorseful cheater who need to start disconnecting from.

There will be no change here Ker, in fact it will get worse. 

She just spat in the hand you outstretched. Do not just kick her out. Go home, get a suitcase, start packing her belongings and leave them on the lawn. 

What she did is completely unacceptable and showed where her feelings are on the matter, after her husband came and bared everything and put it all out on the table for her, this is what she did. 

Do you really want to be married to a woman who values you so little. No matter WHAT she says. 

Hanging with GFs > Husband

This also shows she has absolutely ZERO respect for you or any of your words. 

Time to file for divorce.

You need to mean it. 

MY GF had a horrible experience around smokers and after getting pregnant said I HAD to quit or she wouldn't raise our child with me. In less than a month I quit and haven't smoked 1 cig in more than 2 years. 

Why? Cause I knew damn well she wasn't playing around, and to me cigarettes can't even be put on the same list of importance when it comes to my gf, unlike with your wife and her desire to act like shes single.

You need to do the same. She called your raise, now the question is are you gonna bust out the pocket aces you hinted to or were you just bluffing?


----------



## Kersmack

Just packed some of her **** and tossed it out the front door. 
I dont think I could have done any of this without the support everyone on the forums have shown me, I am so greatful for everyone of you. God bless.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

I have to say, I'm noticing a pattern to your posts....

A lot of references to "the bar" and "texting her".

I'd stay away from BOTH for the time being...


----------



## Kersmack

I normally dont go out to bars, is the funny thing. I only started to go when she started working at 1, cause we never got to see each other half the time. I was at work while she slept, she was at work while I was home putting the kids to bed.


----------



## Kasler

Kersmack said:


> Just packed some of her **** and tossed it out the front door.
> I dont think I could have done any of this without the support everyone on the forums have shown me, I am so greatful for everyone of you. God bless.


Its rough I know, but it has to be done. She should be kissing the ground you walk on for not divorcing her immediately after discovering her affair and willing to give her another chance. 

Instead she blew it off, decided she got off easy and went back to her ways. 

No remorse whatsoever. 

Be prepared, shes gonna come at you with tears. 

They'll be bullsh!t. 

The tears will come because she has no familiar bed to sleep in, 
Not because shes sorry about what happened. If she was she would've wrapped up the gifting fast and got her ass home for the marital intervention.


----------



## Kasler

Yes, I 2nd the stay away from texting. 

Go complete 180 on her. Silent like a stone. Texts go unresponded to.


----------



## Kersmack

well that was ugly.
She yelled at me, no tears. I took my car keys. She tried to fight me over them. Its cold out ... 30 degrees. I feel horrible. She has places she can go, like his place. She actually tried to play this off by saying thier was 30 people at the gifting, it took for ever. I told her Melissa, your a ****ing adult. You should have set the gift down and said im sorry I have to go. 


This was horrible.


----------



## Kersmack

Should I shut her phone off to? Im lost at what I just did. I so badly want to let her back in.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Kersmack said:


> Should I shut her phone off to? Im lost at what I just did. I so badly want to let her back in.


Not as badly as she wants to walk all over you again... if you let her.

Work on yourself. There's no other way.


----------



## Kersmack

She tried to throw alot in my face .... even the its 30 degrees out, your going to throw me out and let me freeze to death while we have children together? ... Is this all venom from her fog? I dont know this person tonight, she was out of her mind.


----------



## Kersmack

Since im not sure whats to drastic atm, is shutting her phone off an extreme that i should not take?


----------



## Kasler

Kersmack said:


> Since im not sure whats to drastic atm, is shutting her phone off an extreme that i should not take?


Kicking her out of the home is enough. She can at least call her friends for boarding. 

However you may want to let her in, don't. She cheated on you, smacked the olive branch you extended to the ground and pushed you this far and its still YOU doing this TO HER? After her affair?

Wow. Shes completely in fog and completely feels entitled to everything. 

Still making excuses for her crappy behavior and blameshifting.

Keep her out. If you let her in, it will only get 5 times worse and I promise you she will never be able to respect you in any form again. 

File divorce.

Tell her if she wants to act like a single woman, she can do it after a divorce cause you won't stand for it. 


Also, keep her out at least two weeks, needs to set in what shes doing to herself, her husband, and her family.


----------



## the guy

Kersmack said:


> I normally dont go out to bars, is the funny thing. I only started to go when she started working at 1, cause we never got to see each other half the time. I was at work while she slept, she was at work while I was home putting the kids to bed.


Been there done that...and it doesn't work!

She needs a shift change.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Kersmack said:


> Since im not sure whats to drastic atm, is shutting her phone off an extreme that i should not take?


The _only_ thing that you could do that I would consider drastic
would be to do the same thing she did to you out of revenge.
Other than that... I say "*tough sh!t*".

She made her own bed, so let her sleep in it.

Be strong or it will be all for nothing in the end.


----------



## Kersmack

Yeah she yelled at me a few times, this is a marriage, and your not leaving me with nothing ... god thats so ****ing horrible of her. Im pretty sure our oldest child heard her to ... I tried so hard to not be emotional. I did not yell either, but I did cry when I told her she was the 1 who made this choice, and that I have been bending over and taking it frmo her all week, while she is the 1 that went out and ****ed other men. I cried when I said that ... I guess acting alpha is not the point at this time in the game ...


----------



## Kersmack

Again ... thank you all for everything you have said. I know I would not have been able to do this without the support of you all. Im so scared of whats coming now. I so badly did not want to have this go like this .... I just wanted her to see what she has done and fix this.


----------



## Kersmack

At this point, do I inform her family?


----------



## Kersmack

Sorry Im rambling, I have no one to talk to right now. Everyone is asleep I know.


----------



## jameskimp

I really feel for you now but your wife is not the same woman you married. You deserve so much better. It's time to move full speed ahead without her and see if she willingly can make all the necessary changes. If not, her loss. Life's too short to Live with someone who will remind you of the pain they caused every time you look at them.

Don't be a dormat anymore.


----------



## Kasler

I'm up late coding so no worries here. I won't be asleep until garbage trucks roll through in the morning. =/

Yes. Tell them that you have recently come to the knowledge that your wife and their daughter was having an affair and you removed her from the marital home due to being unremorseful and uncaring about the feelings of the man she betrayed and the children she put in the backseat so she can party it up. 

Paraphrase.

Also, call and tell before she does, lest she paint you as some abusive a-hole and distorts the truth of her affairs.


----------



## the guy

Remember you are no longer tolorating her crap so of course she is pissed. this teenager has just been told that she is grounded...what did you expect.


her reaction is tyoical of someone that is no loger getting her way and won 't except the consequences.


The old Kersmack would have put up with her unhealthy behavior. But the new Kersmack will not tolorate the mother of his children to behave this way. 

Lets face it bro a good mother would have agreed with you and stayed, but instead her mind set was the oppisite. She justified her behavior as being wrong for the kids when in anyones right mind would tell you that whats best for the kid is staying home.


----------



## Kersmack

Im listening to the VAR I bought today .... Im not sure I want to hear all of it.


----------



## Kersmack

She just talked to her gfs on the var .... about how many guys and the 1s she has been ****ing, and the 1s she did not even have to try to get.


----------



## Kasler

Kersmack said:


> She just talked to her gfs on the var .... about how many guys and the 1s she has been ****ing, and the 1s she did not even have to try to get.


----------



## Kersmack

Im so numb right now .... She is the worst person I have ever known in my entire life. She is a monster. The things I heard on that tape .... im so sick right now. She said she was just staying around till she saved some cash ... she would jump at the firstr chance ... her gfs told her you cant make it on your own ... she said I know, he will keep me till i have enough saved, then im out. 


The only thing I am gripping onto right at this moment, was the next part. 

They said jokingly "he is going to kick you out tonight" she said " no he wont, I have him"

I kicked her out befor I even heard the tape. Score 1 for team me!


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Kersmack said:


> She just talked to her gfs on the var .... about how many guys and the 1s she has been ****ing, and the 1s she did not even have to try to get.




What a disgusting gutter-grubber. Everytime you feel nostalgic pangs of affection for her (like so many dying seizures) just listen to that recording to let concrete fill your veins. The woman you knew and loved is dead and gone forever. A lying garden variety wh*re has taken her place.

Kicked out and on the street in the snow is too GOOD for her.

Expose her to the utmost to all your friends and her family. You have been wronged, stay strong, and stand tall, and you emerge from this Hell with your integrity and self-esteem intact.


----------



## Kasler

Wow. Cancel what I said. Cut off her phone. Cut off everything. Cards, bank accounts, and you need to call an attorney so you can start the divorce process.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Send a copy of your VAR recordings on a CD to her parents & other family so they can hear with their own ears just what an evil wh*re she has become.


----------



## Kersmack

Im so blank right now i think im in shock. How sick is she right now that she justified doing what she did on tape, i have it on tape ... her saying she knows what she is doing .. and she is fine with it. how did she turn into this.... I feel so sorry for her right now.


----------



## Kersmack

My voice is not on the var, so its not legal for court is it? I have her also hot boxing the car with weed. and talking about getting some meth ... im so ****ing rocked right now


----------



## walkonmars

Kersmack, that woman's heart is colder than the temperature. Don't see a need for you to talk to her about anything except the kids and a settlement. 

See a lawyer about divorce tomorrow. He might tell you to destroy the tape if the laws in your state forbid recordings obtained without informed consent. 
So before you go see a lawyer you may want to play a snippet from the tape to her relatives during exposure. 

That way you are immunized against her lies. Sorry you're going through this. But it's better now than being blindsided in the spring.

Nice job, by the way, in having the courage to confront and stand up for yourself


----------



## Kersmack

I just called the guy, we the 1 guy I knew she was screwing. To tell him I just kicked her out, and he should get checked for STD's cause she is ****ing atleast 7 other guys. ... he denied it LOLOLOL


----------



## walkonmars

Chances are she's tweaking as we speak.

She's going to be in the depths of tweaker hell. Tell her you know about the meth and will turn her in if she comes near you or the kids with that sh1t in her system.


----------



## Kersmack

Well I had a good cry, feel pretty decent I guess. Tired. Also, I tossed all her **** next to the dumpster, and the garbage man came buy and picked it all up lol. Sucks so bad for her.


----------



## Numbersixxx

Kersmack said:


> Im so numb right now .... She is the worst person I have ever known in my entire life. She is a monster. The things I heard on that tape .... im so sick right now. She said she was just staying around till she saved some cash ... she would jump at the firstr chance ... her gfs told her you cant make it on your own ... she said I know, he will keep me till i have enough saved, then im out.
> 
> 
> The only thing I am gripping onto right at this moment, was the next part.
> 
> They said jokingly "he is going to kick you out tonight" she said " no he wont, I have him"
> 
> I kicked her out befor I even heard the tape. Score 1 for team me!


So she was faking her love and affection for you, and waiting for the right opportunity to jump ship. At least now you know what she is really like and you can avoid having romantic nostalgic feelings about her.


----------



## happyman64

Kersmack

Do yourself a favor. Cut her off totally.

Play the VAR for her parents if you can. Make them understand you cannot tolerate this much disrespect and that she is no longer allowed back home.

Also talk to her GF's. And let them know she needs a place to stay because the tramp is not allowed home. That you do not tolerate such utter disrespect for you yourself, marriage or family.

I think you are doing great so far.

You are not her Plan B. And never should be.

Have a grat Xmas no matter what.

HM64


----------



## kenmoore14217

protect that recording with your life!!


----------



## anchorwatch

Kersmack, 

You can let her parents or family HEAR the recording. You should not give or allow anyone to have a copy. Email a copy to yourself on a private webmail,or put a copy on a server like dropbox.


----------



## keko

kenmoore14217 said:


> protect that recording with your life!!


Yes. Make a few copies and hide one at your work or somewhere she has no access to.

Also change the locks right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

happyman64 said:


> You are not her Plan B. And never should be.


With the amount of guys she has OP was more likely the plan Z.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Kersmack said:


> My voice is not on the var, so its not legal for court is it? I have her also hot boxing the car with weed. and talking about getting some meth ... im so ****ing rocked right now


Depends on your state but most likely since your voice isn't in the recordings its not admissible to court.

Do you have any cop friends that can bust her and her friends/OM's for drug possession?


----------



## Kersmack

What is the possiblity of her having exaggerated the ammount of men when she said "all the others" to her friends. Just to look good to them? I have alot of things I need to take into account befor I make the move to divorce. Like our oldest child is not actualy mine, but I have raised her since she was 1. She is 11 now. So I dont think I have any custody over her at all.


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## Summer4744

Kersmack, there is almost 0 chance she exagerated, that's what men do not women.

If I were in your shoes I would never tell her about the VAR. I doubt it help you in court. Just mess with her head a little and make her paranoid. Tell her some of the info on it, and when she asks how you know don't tell her.

She will get paranoid and wonder who is ratting her out.


----------



## Kersmack

But it is legal for me to record her if my voice is on the tape. I think ill keep the var secret, and get the affair/affairs out of her when she come back to try and come home. I need evedince of her infidelity for court that I can use if thats is where this train wrecks.


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## anchorwatch

Most states have no fault divorce laws and adultery has no advantage to the BS.


----------



## Summer4744

What state are you in if you are comfortable saying? Some states are no fault divorce and it won't even matter.

If it will matter there are better ways to get evidence such as photos with a PI.

If you really want leverage such as full custody, use the VARs to set her up when she is on meth. Call the cops on her to get her arrested to show that she is an unfit mother.


----------



## Kersmack

I told her grandmother, who is a very very strong mormon and very pro marriage. So naturaly she was trying to tell me to just relax, and let the storm cool. Not to make any drastic desicions. At this point, the only way I could even imagine taking her back, would be if she never left my sight. And thats no life for anyone.


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## Kersmack

Child custody in New Mexico is determined based on the best interests of the child. Factors included in a best interests of the child determination are:
•The parents' wishes
•The child's wishes, if the child is age 14 or older
•The child's relationship with his/her parents, siblings and extended family members
•The mental and physical health of all involved parties
•The child's adjustment to home, school and community


----------



## keko

Kersmack said:


> I told her grandmother, who is a very very strong mormon and very pro marriage. So naturaly she was trying to tell me to just relax, and let the storm cool. Not to make any drastic desicions. At this point, the only way I could even imagine taking her back, would be if she never left my sight. And thats no life for anyone.


Exposing to her family is one thing but never get "advice" from her family. They'll be in the best interest of their daughter not you. Hire an attorney and ask him how you can use your wife's adulterous lifestyle to get the best settlement/custody.


----------



## Mr Blunt

*Get all the legal help you can afford and get all the emoitional support you can get from family, friends, church, etc.

You are in the fight of your life and the well being of your children

Do not compromise becuse that will make it a lot worse*


----------



## happyman64

And Kersmack

Filing for D does not mean you want a D.

It is used as a slap in the WS's face to let them know you are serious about the lack of respect shown to the marriage.

It also tells the WS that you mean business and you are not afraid to Leave them.

Consider it a wakeup call, a very serious one.

And if you transfer the recording to your cell you can play it as proof of that disrespect.


Your WS will think you left your phone in the car and will call you to verify your phone is on you from now on.

But in the meantime get your proof if you feel you need more.

Just keep your cool.

HM64


----------



## CH

Will_Kane said:


> Girls night out.


Remember it's all in good fun and I just need a break from my spouse. Being around them just drains me and I need alone time with the girls/boys only 

I truly wonder at these people (me included when I was younger) if you need alone time why did you even get married? If being around your husband/wife and your kids tires you then why did you even get married?

I need to recharge because my family drains my life when I'm with them, seriously......I thought being around your spouse and kids made you happy and filled you with life, not drain it where you need to take a break to recharge.


----------



## thatbpguy

It seems to me she works in an environment that breeds betrayal. And she's all in. 

I might suggest a trial separation for a few months. After that, see if the marriage is worth salvaging. It'll give both of you time to clear your heads.


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## Kersmack

At this point, my only real concern's are her health, and my kids.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Kersmack said:


> At this point, my only real concern's are her health, and my kids.


WHAT?

HER health?

Dude, that's the problem right there.

Did she ever consider _YOUR_ health, or the health of your _KIDS_ by banging the OM? Give me a break.

Worry about your kids, then yourself... and in that order.

I know your'e hurting... that's normal and will take time but let me
repeat some advice that was given to me during my struggles
with my stbxw's affair.... in order to save your marriage, you
have to be completely prepared to end it. The sooner you face
that head on (I'm not saying you aren't or won't) the better
man you will be when this is all said and done with.

No guarantees of course, but you *must* be mentally prepared for it.


----------



## walkonmars

If she's on meth - even just a hit or two, it won't be long before she's deep into the scene. Things may start disappearing from your home if you let her back in. She's learning to lie like a pro.

Her friends have already set her up with a good story for you. Be careful.


----------



## walkonmars

Demand a hair follicle test as well as an STI exam before she sets foot in the house again.

If she comes back and threatens to take the kids call child protective service immediately and tell them she's a tweaker who is going to expose the kids to drug addicts. Get them involved.


----------



## Kersmack

She asked to come see the kids on xmas. I told her she can come see them, open presents. But then she has to leave and im going to my parents with them for a while. When I said her health, I mean her mental health. She is very broken right now, regardless of how I am moving this <I am meeting with a lawyer later to go over the papers> I did spend 1/3 of my life with her, and even with what she has done, and who she has become. I still want her to get help.


----------



## walkonmars

Your shoulders are broad and your heart big - but broken so I understand your concern about her mental health. Let her parents help with that - start with her grammy. Tell them she's going to need help - a lot of it. Let them know she using and you have proof. Naturally she'll deny. 

Did she try to explain what happened? She really wants out? 

She is a changed woman. The trust you used to have is no more. Y


----------



## Acabado

Kersmack said:


> She asked to come see the kids on xmas. I told her she can come see them, open presents. But then she has to leave and im going to my parents with them for a while. When I said her health, I mean her mental health. She is very broken right now, regardless of how I am moving this <I am meeting with a lawyer later to go over the papers> I did spend 1/3 of my life with her, and even with what she has done, and who she has become. I still want her to get help.


What's her attitude, still defiant?


----------



## Kersmack

When she called asking to see the kids today after work, thats when I told her she could come see them. And then she could come see them on x-mas morning to do presents and visit. She cried and said thank you, I hung up.

I am meeting the lawyer at 4, do I tell her I am filing for a divorce?

I dropped a few bombs from the tape, and she denied ever saying any of it ...


----------



## Kasler

Kersmack said:


> When she called asking to see the kids today after work, thats when I told her she could come see them. And then she could come see them on x-mas morning to do presents and visit. She cried and said thank you, I hung up.
> 
> I am meeting the lawyer at 4, do I tell her I am filing for a divorce?
> 
> *I dropped a few bombs from the tape, and she denied ever saying any of it* ...


You have your answer. 

Tell her that your 'source' or 'informant' was trustworthy and you know its true, and she'll be wondering which of her toxic gfs spilled the beans. 

You can if you want, but all shes going to do is let loose a stream of bullcrap about being sorry and remorseful.

No matter what she says, she isn't. Remember that VAR recording and she is far less 'broken' than you think if shes still easily going to work 1 day after being kicked out of her home and away from her children. 

I remember Oldmitten's wife, after he left, stalked out his workplace everyday for a month for hours, which in turn cost her to lose her own job pretty quickly. 

Now thats behavior that you could construe as broken.

Shes gonna say whatever she has to to get back to where she was, don't fall for it.


----------



## warlock07

All this acting...She was cold and calculating on the tape, wasn't she ? What did she say ? yeah, "She has you.." Remember these words. Women like your wife play the damsel in distress so well when in trouble and the protective instincts of the H take over


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## tom67

Yea just remember what you heard maybe you can make copies of that then put it on multiple flash drives. Play it for her parents let them know she needs help ASAP. Keep the VAR on you when she is over just in case she falsely accuses you of domestic violence.


----------



## keko

Kersmack said:


> She asked to come see the kids on xmas. I told her she can come see them, open presents. But then she has to leave and im going to my parents with them for a while. When I said her health, I mean her mental health. She is very broken right now, regardless of how I am moving this <I am meeting with a lawyer later to go over the papers> I did spend 1/3 of my life with her, and even with what she has done, and who she has become. I still want her to get help.


Her mental state is fine. Did you already forget how she was planning on saving some money and dumping you? 

I understand you're going through the roughest part of your life so please try to keep emotions out of it.

Don't tell her you're divorcing or you've met with a lawyer. That would not help you out in any way. 

Has she ever called cops before on you for a domestic violence? If not get ready for one. These toxic friends of hers will feed her lies on how to turn this around on to you. So keep another VAR on yourself when you interact with her.


----------



## tom67

Change the locks also like what was said if she's jonesing things of value will start to disappear yes she was coherent talking about leaving but the meth factor oooh! You can throw logic out in fact don't be surprised if she loses her job from not showing up I hear people who do this crap are up for DAYS, some serious stuff!


----------



## 3putt

tom67 said:


> Yea just remember what you heard maybe you can make copies of that then put it on multiple flash drives. Play it for her parents let them know she needs help ASAP. *Keep the VAR on you when she is over just in case she falsely accuses you of domestic violence.*


Don't even _think_ about not doing this.


----------



## Kersmack

I went ahead and called all of her family I could get in touch with. They are trying to contact her .. but I shut her phone off. I gave her sister her work number, she asked if I had the money to send her to idaho, so she could kick her ass and detox her from whatever. Her sister is a good person. 

Ill keep the VAR with me, at this point I guess anything is possible. Thanks again everyone for the support. It was really a big relife actualy to have her point a direction. Now I hope she can just be civil.

Also Keko, I already had told her that I was filing befor I got back home to read your post, what blowback can I be looking forward to over that?


----------



## tom67

Remember she has to want to go you can't make her she isn't a minor I guess when she stops by you could suggest she call her sister. You are doing a good job so far stay strong both for you and the kids. Maybe she will bottom out time will tell.


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## keko

Kersmack said:


> Also Keko, I already had told her that I was filing befor I got back home to read your post, what blowback can I be looking forward to over that?


She's now aware of your intentions to divorce and will develop a game plan to counter it. Have you secured important documents inside the household? Do you have any secrets that might put you in a tough spot in front of a judge? etc.

Have a look at this link when you have some free time, THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum

It is too much to consume at once, but make sure you understand the basic principles. 

Keep in mind your wife is not the wife you married nor the one who you thought she was. She sees you as the enemy since you exposed her second life style and stopped her cake eating. You need to understand she can and will do anything to get her way so prepare yourself and your kids for the worst.



tom67 said:


> Remember she has to want to go you can't make her she isn't a minor I guess when she stops by you could suggest she call her sister.


He shouldn't suggest rather tell her. For example just tell her she's not welcome in this house anymore but you're willing to buy her a bus ticket back to her sisters(you'll drop her off at the bus station and buy her the ticket, not give her the cash).


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## tom67

I agree do not give her cash that will only be used for her next fix. I would let her know without revealing what you know about how she was planning this. Just say you have your sources.


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## Kersmack

She is not on meth, Im almost 100%. It was 1 of the GF's that made the comment. Regardless, she is here now. Wants to quit her job, and go to counseling. And do NC with the guy. And move.

What do I do. This was not in the plan.


----------



## WyshIknew

I'll tell you what you do.

You listen to the VAR.

And then you hit yourself over the head with a 2x4 for even considering reconciling.

Don't forget all those other guys, and the saving money crap, can't wait to get out etc.


----------



## keko

Kersmack said:


> She is not on meth, Im almost 100%. It was 1 of the GF's that made the comment. Regardless, she is here now. Wants to quit her job, and go to counseling. And do NC with the guy. And move.
> 
> What do I do. This was not in the plan.


Actually that is the plan. For your wife that is.

She'll keep you satisfied for a couple of months while she stashes some cash and figures out where the stay, then she'll dump you.


----------



## TBT

In the end you're going to do what you're going to do,but before you make any kind of decision you need to know the extent of her infidelities and lies.Simply the fact that there is more than one guy she has to be in NC with should make you tread carefully and question the veracity of any thing she maybe saying now.


----------



## anchorwatch

What do you want to do?


----------



## Summer4744

What do you mean what should you do?

She sences her meal ticket is slipping through her fingers so of course she will say that.


----------



## Maneo

why do you think she confessed to you? guilt? because she was afraid of being found out? something else?
this is of course a major blow but what do you think is going on with her?


----------



## Kersmack

I want my wife back. I have never stopped wanting my wife back. Im not letting her back in right now, and Im not letting her have the car back. Untill she comes back, and has quit her job. And acknowledges what she has done, and we have had alot of counseling. I never stopped loving my wife. She already knows about the VAR. It was only her and 2 other people in the car, and they support her. 

I think I want to play the VAR for her, and then tell her to leave.


----------



## Kersmack

I also fully think she has chemical issues in her brain right now, and possible a MLC. She had a horrible child hood. Rape from her father, a drug addict mother. She was forced into pretty much being mom for her brother's and sister.

Thats not justifying this, but I know she has issues. And I dont want to abandon her if this is a mental breakdown on her part. I was not joking when I said she is acting like a person I have never known.

Dont get me wrong, Im not jumping in on this. But im not sure im ready to cut the cord and move on.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Kersmack, 29 is not old at all.

Keep that var, show it to her, make copies. Put it on your pc, online, and in your phone.

COVERTLY RECORDING TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS

There are 38 one party states that allow this and NM is on that list which allows this.

I almost vomited when I read what you heard on the var and even I felt sick, I do not know how you are doing it. Make sure you get yourself loads of vitamin c (assists vs stress hormone, cortisol) saw palmetto with oatmeal (testosterone kills depression and increases pain threshold).

I read the whole thread and you sure built yourself up really well. You have become stronger and you will become stronger.

Do not falter. If you ever feel that you will relapse, listen to your var. Your wife is possessed and is a slave to her fleshly passions.

Live for your children and yourself now, love will come again.


----------



## anchorwatch

Your in charge now. Your rules. Your time line. Are you willing to play probation officer?


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Kersmack said:


> I also fully think she has chemical issues in her brain right now, and possible a MLC. She had a horrible child hood. Rape from her father, a drug addict mother. She was forced into pretty much being mom for her brother's and sister.
> 
> Thats not justifying this, but I know she has issues. And I dont want to abandon her if this is a mental breakdown on her part. I was not joking when I said she is acting like a person I have never known.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, Im not jumping in on this. But im not sure im ready to cut the cord and move on.



Everyone has their pasts but yet again everyone makes their own decisions and is NEVER (yes never, death will come first) forced to do anything.

I assume your wife was not like this before. She is a different person now. She entered the lions den at her own will and freely engorged without any recourse to you. She did not think twice about you, or her children, or her family. She stopped being a SAHW and worked at a bar. The wife you know is gone and she has tainted your marriage and wounded your heart which will be scarred forever.

Cheaters are liars. She has lied to you, deceived you and cried in front of you. She will only cry harder the next time around. She has an addiction to dopamine, it loves novelty and excitement and through it she is addicted to cheating. She will keep doing it. Think of a person who is addicted to anything, gambling, alcohol, drugs, pornography, cheating etc.

What you need to focus on is your children, because children are always paying for their parent/parents sins. This chain reaction of constant hurt from generation to generation.

You've improved thus far and I know you'll get stronger.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

anchorwatch said:


> Your in charge now. Your rules. Your time line. Are you willing to play probation officer?


Exactly.

Do you want to live a marriage like that? For how long? Is that a way to love a wife, without trust? If there is any reconciliation to be found the grounds for it must be completely sound. You do not destroy a house and start rebuilding.

You need to clear the debri, set the footings, compact, lay the foundation before you even start building the house.

Trust needs to be rebuilt after she destroyed you.

Your wife needs to be a SAHW, she has shown that she cannot control her desires. Everyone has evil desires to cheat, lie, steal etc. I'm sure that if you divorce and she gets another job, what will more than likely happen is a work affair. These girl nights out, sleep overs, luncheons with co workers, dinner with coworkers, drinks with co workers is all risky. 

Full transparency from her is needed. Complete acceptance of all your terms with no question. She has already denied this. She has even denied your last call. How long will you wait on her?

You've already set the motion for D. Become a freight train. Its hard to stop those.


----------



## Kersmack

I know this may sound naive, but I feel its worth effort to atleast try. I have made all my demands, and she did not question 1. 

My parents have had alot of issues in thier marriage, they have been together for 30 years. They have cheated, lied, my father was a repeate offender due to working out of town 70% of his time.

The only differance is they never once said I dont love you. Marriage can be the most painful pill to swallow. I guess at this point, Im the only 1 that can really gague the call. I have alot to think about. Thank you all again for the emotional support you have givin me. You are all very good people.


----------



## anchorwatch

Start making your list. Read the newbie thread. She doesn't go back to work there as of now. Cut off all contact with all those involved. She's on probation and you're her monitor. Merry Christmas.


----------



## Kasler

Do what you feel is best, but don't take her back. Shes gonna have to win you back. 

I suggest several months. 

If she is truly remorseful she should be able to last that long. 

Remember, she will do and say anything to get back to the status quo. 

The old marriage you had is dead, if theres gonna be one between you two it will have to be completely forged, but only through a lot of effort and true remorse.

Not reconciling just because shes good at giving empty promises and crying. 

I am too if you toss me an onion. 

I repeat, several months, and not with her lounging in the marital home. If she can be consistent during that time, then you have a foothold to true R. If you give in she won't realize the severity of her actions.

If you give in, then you'll always be waiting for the other shoe to drop whenever she gets 'enough cash' to bail.


----------



## Acabado

Draf the list of conditions:
NC, NC letter/s.
Transparence nad acountability of whereabouts
Quitting/changing jobs
STD tests (humilliating, shameful, good, necessary)
Toxic friends/enablers/Not friends of marriage are gone (NC)
Full disclosure (was she jut braging about the bunch of guys she was banging? was real of only bravado?). Poly to back up the timeline?
Intensive IC
Tell her to get info on how to fix things, books, online help (Send her to survivingInfidelity, keep TAMA as your safe place). The ball is in her court.

You talk to the lawyer anyway and keep snooping (trust but verify).


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Kersmack said:


> I know this may sound naive, but I feel its worth effort to atleast try. I have made all my demands, and she did not question 1.
> 
> My parents have had alot of issues in thier marriage, they have been together for 30 years. They have cheated, lied, my father was a repeate offender due to working out of town 70% of his time.
> 
> The only differance is they never once said I dont love you. Marriage can be the most painful pill to swallow. I guess at this point, Im the only 1 that can really gague the call. I have alot to think about. Thank you all again for the emotional support you have givin me. You are all very good people.




Marriage is not about saying I love you or I don't love you, it is about SHOWING and PROVING that love through actions. Right now your marriage needs "blood", because that is the only thing that can save it. You think you are being underhanded now, wait until you start reconciling and it fails. You will experience or shall I say "re experience" D day several times. You are the one with the decision. If you wish to reconcile you can work hard for that, both R and D are both extremely difficult paths to walk. I do not know how long it will take to get over the disgust of a wife having been with so many partners in so little time. A woman of that sort should at least charge and make some profit out of it so she won't be a free prostitute. This mental effect is great to the near point of mental breakdown if one does not truly express compassion (not false compassion, admonish the sinner to the level of their crime of course) for their lost spouse.


----------



## tom67

Kersmack said:


> I want my wife back. I have never stopped wanting my wife back. Im not letting her back in right now, and Im not letting her have the car back. Untill she comes back, and has quit her job. And acknowledges what she has done, and we have had alot of counseling. I never stopped loving my wife. She already knows about the VAR. It was only her and 2 other people in the car, and they support her.
> 
> I think I want to play the VAR for her, and then tell her to leave.


Play the var for her and yes tell her to leave you need time to get your ducks in a row financially and legally.


----------



## tom67

She has a choice her druggy wh0re friends or you and the kids. Tell her to figure out how she can win you back until then forget it.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

tom67 said:


> Play the var for her and yes tell her to leave you need time to get your ducks in a row financially and legally.


Exactly. I would bring it up, of all the things she said. Tell her to be honest, she has lied to you enough and she will deny then play the VAR and let her take the var from you because YOU WILL have extra copies and of MANY conversations. Never let her know how much you have or what you have knowledge of. Tell her she needs to not lie anymore. You've already been hurt to the maximum, any more trickle truth will only bring you down after you've come up for air. All at once, a timeline of events, of confessing truthfully killing all the deception. 

A deception may cease to be a deception once it is revealed. Concealing is close lying.


----------



## Shaggy

I would sit her down if she is willing and play the var.

for each horrible thing on the var write down the list of "how I will fix this " from her. For each and everything.

Then inform her, she does each and everything plus what you add or she is divorced.

Until each is completed you will not consider yourself married.


----------



## cantthinkstraight

I would also like to express that what Kers is feeling right now at this stage 
of the game is NOT what he'll feel in 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, etc.

He is where he is now but that will all change, maybe for the best - maybe for the worst.

It can all flip upside down on him in a heartbeat, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months from now... 
and undo everything he thought was true or "fixed".

Your battle _is just beginning_ Kers, so pack a lunch and listen to the advice you get here. 
Like you, none of us BS's came here for pleasant reasons - but most of us end up staying here 
to help others through similar situations that we've been through.

I implore you to NOT take that lightly. You can still get burned, so for the sake of YOU and the KIDS.... please be prepared for it.


----------



## walkonmars

Less than 48 hrs ago she felt comfortable enough to humiliate you in front of her friends. She's been unfaithful and belittled you behind your back with the DJ. Go back and read your posts on this thread. 

The good thing is that you acted with a lot of strength and were prepared to move forward. Of course hearing in her own words the level of betrayal was a strong motivator. Even if she was just bragging to her friends (and I believe there was a lot of truth in what she told them) she was acting the wh0re and being proud of it. 

You CAN reconcile but it won't be easy. Read the posts on this page again. There's plenty of good advice. Use what you think will work. But Acabado gave a nice little list that covers everything. 

Keep loving your children and don't belittle your wife to them. They're too young to be involved in the turmoil surrounding your marriage right now. 

Keep a confident and calm demeanor. Let her know that you are perfectly willing to move forward on your own if you have to. 

Stay strong.


----------



## ilou

Kersmack said:


> "... I know, he will keep me till i have enough saved, then im out...............no he wont, I have him"


I had a cousin who also caught her boyfriend on a recording. She always backtracked on breaking up with him. We made her set it as her ringtone to remind her during their "time off". A little extreme but it worked.

What your wife said was cold. Planned out. I won't tell you what you should do though. But I highly doubt while she said this she was thinking, "I'll just lie to impress them but I could NEVER leave him. I love him so much after telling him I want a divorce and a few affairs."

You may not want to leave her but you also don't want her actions to influence the kids in a negative light.

You want her to quit but she still has her toxic friends.

Your parents stuck through it but do YOU really want to through that?

It's easy to list the cons of reconciliation for a reason. It's a long road if you do. Good luck sir


----------



## warlock07

Kersmack said:


> She is not on meth, Im almost 100%. It was 1 of the GF's that made the comment. Regardless, she is here now. Wants to quit her job, and go to counseling. And do NC with the guy. And move.
> 
> What do I do. This was not in the plan.


take away the financial incentive. That means, offer her means if she wants divorce in terms of accommodation and finances..If you take away all her stuff, she will play nice until she gets them back.


----------



## warlock07

Kersmack said:


> I know this may sound naive, but I feel its worth effort to atleast try. I have made all my demands, and she did not question 1.
> 
> My parents have had alot of issues in thier marriage, they have been together for 30 years. They have cheated, lied, my father was a repeate offender due to working out of town 70% of his time.
> 
> The only differance is they never once said I dont love you. Marriage can be the most painful pill to swallow. I guess at this point, Im the only 1 that can really gague the call. I have alot to think about. Thank you all again for the emotional support you have givin me. You are all very good people.



that is a terrible marriage to look up to or set as an example. Your W was cheating with multiple guys remember, not just one. So in a sense, you are taking up your mother's role.

Don't have sex with her.

get tested for STDs.

take time making your final decision


----------



## Kersmack

I thank all of you for the support and advice. 

She quit her job, called her boss and told him she quits. She has agreed to write a NC letter. She has acknowledged that the people she had made so called friends with at the bar, are nothing but vile snakes. Anyone who would encourage that kind of behavioure has no place being called a friend. And will NC them as well. She has agreed to do counseling twice a week, starting wednesday. 

She told me everything I asked, how many times they had sex, where, his address, when they first did- which was just a few weeks ago.that she never said I love you to him, and it was never at my home. She said when I played the VAR that she has no idea why she said all the other guys, she was just trying to get validation and praise from the friends in the car with her. And they did stroke her ego for it on the var.

She acknowledged this was HER DOING, that this was HER fault and she made choices that she understands I may never be able to forgive her for making. She broke this family, and cant even imagine how much I hate her for what she has done to me, and the kids, and she hates her self for making me have to hold the family up by my self while she ****ed up our lives. She asked if I still had anything left in me to let her try and fix what she has done.

This all took place after I told her I filed a divorce, and I got all of her family involved. I can not stress how much getting her grandmother, sister and father talking to her helped slap her in the face. 

I told her if you are not 100% commited to putting everything you have into fixing what you have done. You need to get the hell out of my house now. I told her you will not have privacy outside of the bathroom with me. You wont delete text messages, calls, emails. 

At this moment, I am just letting her prove to me. I have listened to the VAR 3 times today. I feel, and have felt, that I have to practice what I preached. I made vows on the day we wed to love her. And what kind of a man would I be if I broke a vow in our marriages darkest time. I have to deal with that.

I will keep everyone up to date. We will be buying books, and learning EVERYTHING that is to be had for help.

Again, I can not thank everyone of you enough. For everything you have done.


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## jameskimp

Kersmack said:


> I thank all of you for the support and advice.
> 
> She quit her job, called her boss and told him she quits. She has agreed to write a NC letter. She has acknowledged that the people she had made so called friends with at the bar, are nothing but vile snakes. Anyone who would encourage that kind of behavioure has no place being called a friend. And will NC them as well. She has agreed to do counseling twice a week, starting wednesday.
> 
> She told me everything I asked, how many times they had sex, where, his address, when they first did- which was just a few weeks ago.that she never said I love you to him, and it was never at my home. She said when I played the VAR that she has no idea why she said all the other guys, she was just trying to get validation and praise from the friends in the car with her. And they did stroke her ego for it on the var.
> 
> She acknowledged this was HER DOING, that this was HER fault and she made choices that she understands I may never be able to forgive her for making. She broke this family, and cant even imagine how much I hate her for what she has done to me, and the kids, and she hates her self for making me have to hold the family up by my self while she ****ed up our lives. She asked if I still had anything left in me to let her try and fix what she has done.
> 
> This all took place after I told her I filed a divorce, and I got all of her family involved. I can not stress how much getting her grandmother, sister and father talking to her helped slap her in the face.
> 
> I told her if you are not 100% commited to putting everything you have into fixing what you have done. You need to get the hell out of my house now. I told her you will not have privacy outside of the bathroom with me. You wont delete text messages, calls, emails.
> 
> At this moment, I am just letting her prove to me. I have listened to the VAR 3 times today. I feel, and have felt, that I have to practice what I preached. I made vows on the day we wed to love her. And what kind of a man would I be if I broke a vow in our marriages darkest time. I have to deal with that.
> 
> I will keep everyone up to date. We will be buying books, and learning EVERYTHING that is to be had for help.
> 
> Again, I can not thank everyone of you enough. For everything you have done.


Good luck but I'm sure the vows went out the window the minute she cheated. Unconditional love is for puppies and children. The punishment for adultery in the bible is death. 

Stay because you want to. At your age, you have other options, so don't take anything but perfection from her now.


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## Will_Kane

Kersmack said:


> I thank all of you for the support and advice.
> 
> *She quit her job, called her boss and told him she quits. She has agreed to write a NC letter. *She has acknowledged that the people she had made so called friends with at the bar, are nothing but vile snakes. Anyone who would encourage that kind of behavioure has no place being called a friend. And *will NC them as well.* She has agreed to do counseling twice a week, starting wednesday.
> 
> *She told me everything I asked, how many times they had sex, where, his address, when they first did- which was just a few weeks ago.that she never said I love you to him, and it was never at my home.* She said when I played the VAR that she has no idea why she said all the other guys, she was just trying to get validation and praise from the friends in the car with her. And they did stroke her ego for it on the var.
> 
> She acknowledged this was HER DOING, that this was HER fault and she made choices that she understands I may never be able to forgive her for making. She broke this family, and cant even imagine how much I hate her for what she has done to me, and the kids, and she hates her self for making me have to hold the family up by my self while she ****ed up our lives. She asked if I still had anything left in me to let her try and fix what she has done.
> 
> *This all took place after I told her I filed a divorce, and I got all of her family involved. I can not stress how much getting her grandmother, sister and father talking to her helped slap her in the face. *
> 
> I told her if you are not 100% commited to putting everything you have into fixing what you have done. You need to get the hell out of my house now. I told her you will not have privacy outside of the bathroom with me. You wont delete text messages, calls, emails.
> 
> *At this moment, I am just letting her prove to me*. I have listened to the VAR 3 times today. I feel, and have felt, that I have to practice what I preached. I made vows on the day we wed to love her. And what kind of a man would I be if I broke a vow in our marriages darkest time. I have to deal with that.
> 
> I will keep everyone up to date. We will be buying books, and learning EVERYTHING that is to be had for help.
> 
> Again, I can not thank everyone of you enough. For everything you have done.


You have handled this situation about as well as you could, stood up to her lies and deceit, showed her you were not willing to tolerate and were ready to move on, and it seems to have woken her up out of her fantasy land. It sounds like you are off to a good start with the reconciliation, with her already quitting her job and agreeing to send no contact letters to other man and have no further contact with toxic friends.

Still, as others have pointed out, it is very disturbing how far your wife went off the rails in just three months of working in that toxic environment. Rather than just quit the job or refuse to take part in it, remain aloof and just stick to business, she seems to have bought in to the toxic environment of affairs, drinking, and drugs almost right off the bat.

Also, she said she wants to reconcile, but just a day or two ago she said she planned to use you for money and when she was ready, she would leave you. She said BOTH of those things; you are doing yourself a disservice if you believe in one of them completely and totally discount the other.

Cheaters are liars, your wife is no different. BELIEVE HER ACTIONS, don't put too much emphasis on her words. As far as her actions toward reconciliation, so far, so good. But make sure she keeps taking the actions she promised.

Has she blocked all of these people on Facebook? Not just unfriended them, but blocked them? Deleted their contacts off of her phone and email?

You mentioned throwing out some of her stuff. Did you consider asking her to destroy any clothing she wore for the other man?

Have you asked her to get tested for STDs and give you the results? Also a pregnancy test?

Regarding her telling you "everything": Not likely. Maybe she told you most of the details, enough that you understand the extent of what she's done and it is coherent and truthful enough to make sense to you, but if you look at these threads, you will see that these cheaters NEVER come clean on the first, or even second, or third try. There always are a few new details trickling out. So just be ready for that. It seems like it's a law of nature or something; you have a better chance of winning the lottery than of getting the full truth right off the bat.

Good luck.


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## life101

Once a cheater always a cheater, once a liar always a liar. Believe only her actions, and not her words. I have seen hundreds of threads on infidelity over the past couple of months (including my WW's) and I think it is extremely rare to find a truly remorseful wayward. Also, don't confuse guilt with remorse. Gulit is temporary. Remorse is permanent and makes lasting changes for the better.

Good luck.


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## walkonmars

You must be exhausted. You've done a remarkable job so far. If this works, your family will be together only because of your swift and decisive actions. If it doesn't work, no blame or shame can be placed at your feet.

She has said and done the right things so far. Whether they are said & done out of guilt, fear, or remorse is yet to be revealed. But it's a hopeful start. 

Even if she truly wants to put all her effort into the marriage she is going to be tempted in the days ahead. She made a LOT of male friends who have a certain impression of what they can get from her. They're not going to respect anything she says about being faithful to you now. 

They will call, first with 'innocent' questions just to see how she is, to appologize, to offer help. Remind her NC means NC period. 

She will run into them as well as her toxic girlfriends. When she does will she present herself as a humbled and contrite woman? 

Anyway, you've been running on massive doses of adrenalin. Take care of yourself. Keep your eyes and ears open, your heart guarded, your kids close.


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## jim123

Great job. You acted strong and got results. Do not let your foot off the gas pedal Keep moving forward with the D as your R. Your wife needs to find out why she is doing this. 

You need to work on yourself and make sure this is what you want too.

This is only step one in a very long journey. Put yourself first as she did. Your old marriage is gone and so is the woman your married. Things will never be the same.


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## Chaparral

You have to do this:

* Quote:
Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything! *


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## Chaparral

Then she has to follow this:

*Read this:

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! *

Good luck and prayers for your family.

You male your luck by staying strong and not letting things go. Be firm but cool with it.


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## Chaparral

Print the wayard spouse instructions off for her and you to go over together.

DO NOT LET HER COME TO THIS SITE AT THIS POINT


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## Kasler

chapparal said:


> Print the wayard spouse instructions off for her and you to go over together.
> 
> DO NOT LET HER COME TO THIS SITE AT THIS POINT


Agreed, this is your area to plan and think. 

Bringing her here pretty much paralyzes us unless we use PMs. 

Start deleting your browser history as well if she has access to your computer, as you need a ring of support all for yourself.


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## Acabado

Great job.

Agree with the latest posters, keep TAM for you. If she asks where are you getting support or advice, TAM is your "therapy group", send her to another infidelity/relationships site as SI. Put the burden of the recovery on her, tell her she's free to choose, that your rules are personal boundaries to remain married to her.

Leave your PC opened at this website (For her to see):How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful Also, purchase Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass (she should read it too).


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Kersmack said:


> She told me everything I asked, how many times they had sex, where, his address, when they first did- which was just a few weeks ago.that she never said I love you to him, and it was never at my home. She said when I played the VAR that she has no idea why she said all the other guys, she was just trying to get validation and praise from the friends in the car with her. And they did stroke her ego for it on the var.



You are making great progress. Do not faulter, and just expect the worst. Liars always trickle truth, and they only give you what you need based on what you have to save dignity and/or face and/or to not hurt you.

Keep working because the hard part starts now. You'll be a probation office/baby sitter for a while, make sure her actions show remorse and that of one who wants to do anything to keep her loving husband.

See you around


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