# A letter for the Wayward



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I want you to know..........

I hate feeling resentment every day,

I hate the bitterness I now have,

I hate that you took a piece of me, I don't know which piece, and now i feel incomplete.

I hate that you have changed me forever.

I hate that you can laugh and have a good time and I feel stuck, on this spot and i'm still reeling!

I hate that you look like you've forgotten what you have done to me/us, and it's on my mind seemingly every minute that I'm with you.

I hate you have damaged me.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...


Hi LRgirl - I feel every word you've written. My sentiments exactly. We are in Recon mode and I guess it is going OK but something is not quite right. As you are experiencing there are so many facets to this betrayal.

Overall I feel like I'm leading this new unasked for life. Everything appears to be the same but it is forever changed. The setting the same but I alone have this burden that follows me everywhere.

I have resentment towards my partner the same as you, on many levels, but that one thing - the fact that she defaults to her normal self as though all is as it was before really gets my goat. Sometimes when she is enjoying herself it bugs me

Realistically it is the only way it can be as we try to build something from this awful deception but - i don't know - I have my doubts. I suppose i always will now.

Like you I am filthy that she has put me in this boat. I have talked here before about the state of mind I was in for the last few years - depression and and something I haven't mentioned before, a number of very serious family matters that have dragged on for years. A split family in fact with me as the emotional touchstone - a moderator. 

It all took it's toll on me and BAM! I find out my partner has been seeing some suited up creep. Enough said, I'm venting again. I genuinely hope you can find the peace and the quality of life you deserve. 

Best wishes Horizon.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I sometimes wish they could feel just half of they put the BS through but there is only one way to do that.
There is no way I could have a revenge A but I have thought about it.
I'll never understand why someone won't work on the issues in the marriage,going to someone else makes things a thousand times worse.
How the hell can you fall in love with someone you went to high school with and have not talked to in 20 years?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...


You just put 10,000 words of what I would say and said it better in less than 100.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know...
> 
> *
> I hate that you have changed me forever.
> ...


I told my wife, late one night... staring at the ceiling... I know there is evil, but you were the last person on earth that I thought would purposely, without conscience, hurt me. 

It's been close to 4 years, I know now that I will never feel whole again.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

RWB said:


> I told my wife, late one night... staring at the ceiling... I know there is evil, but you were the last person on earth that I thought would purposely, without conscience, hurt me.
> 
> It's been close to 4 years, I know now that I will never feel whole again.


It gets better but it never really does go away,you're forced to live with it for the rest of your life.
I've never know something to hurt so bad so long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I know you all know exactly how I'm feeling, as i do you.

It sucks to be here, but we have little choice.....I need to be around people who understand, so thank you for that.

How can his world still move on and mine be standing still?


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## eniale (Jan 8, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I know you all know exactly how I'm feeling, as i do you.
> 
> It sucks to be here, but we have little choice.....I need to be around people who understand, so thank you for that.
> 
> How can his world still move on and mine be standing still?


Exactly!!!!!!


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

It also so hard to see the betrayer simply move on with a shrug of the shoulders as they had a good time and yet us betrayed have to live with the damage.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...



*A letter for my Betrayed*

I want you to know..........

I hate that my actions have caused you to have to carry the burden of resentment in your soul,

I hate knowing that you feel bitter towards me and possibly others, as well. I hate what that has taken from you and I hate what it does to me. But, I know, that it was my choice that brought this Hell into our lives. It is my earned cross to bear, but I hate that you must bear it, also.

I hate that my actions took something precious from both of us. Something so real and so vital to the core of our beings that neither of us will ever truly feel the same, again.. I hate that you have to live with the undeserved pain of feeling violated and incomplete because of my selfish choice. I hate that I must forever live with the knowledge, shame and guilt that I feel knowing that I took that from you.

I hate that you will never enjoy the comfort of naïveté about unconditional love and trust, again. The kind of love that is so deep that it can only be shared from a parent to a child or from two adults in a healthy, loving, committed and monogamous relationship. Whether you understand or believe it or not, I robbed myself of the same naïveté with my lies, deceit and betrayal of you. 

I hate knowing that by my simply attempting to enjoy even the most mundane pleasures of life like interacting with our children and playing with our grandson and laughing at the precious things they do might actually cause you pain. I struggle daily to walk a fine line of trying to heal myself and move forward, honestly believing that the best way that I can help you heal is to try to heal myself, as well. I believe that if I choose to wallow in my own misery and self-pity that all I have to offer you is a defeated and broken down version of myself..... not very much to inspire you to want to work with me towards building a happier, healthier future for the two of us. But, what helps you one day, may cause you pain the next....... I hate that for you..... I hate it for me, too.

I hate seeing the pain in your eyes as a certain song plays on the radio, or we pass a certain restaurant, or a specific date on the calendar is approaching. I hate wondering if I should speak first about the "elephant" in the room or if I should wait and take your lead. I promise you, I have not forgotten how I hurt you, our children and our extended family..... nor will I ever be free of this self-imposed burden that I carry. I feel a tremendous desire, and obligation, to build a new life, a happy life, a healthy life for all of us. I don't know how to move towards that future if I am always dwelling on the past. 

I hate the damage that I have caused you. But, I also envy you, too. If you choose, you can walk away from all of this, from me, your betrayer. It would not undo the damage to your soul or erase your pain..... But, you can choose to begin a new life, unencumbered by the presence of the very one who betrayed you and destroyed our marriage. I cannot. Until the day I take my last breath, I have to look in the mirror and see the face of the person responsible for destroying my family, the ones I love most in this world..... the family who calls me "Wife" and "Mom."


I am so, so, so very sorry....... But, I know that will never be enough to heal all of our broken hearts... And, I hate that, too.... </3


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

EI said:


> *A letter for the Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...


If only you really knew....


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

EI said:


> *A letter for the Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to post this.....I believe you Re sorry and I hope you can make things ok. Is your H a member of CWI? If not you should print this off. It would mean so much to me if my H wrote this to me. You made me cry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

EI said:


> *A letter for the Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...



Bravo EI, I really needed to read that. It was theraputic if you will.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> Thank you for taking the time to post this.....I believe you Re sorry and I hope you can make things ok. Is your H a member of CWI? If not you should print this off. It would mean so much to me if my H wrote this to me. You made me cry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're welcome, LRgirl, and thank you for not being offended by my thread jack. It didn't occur to me until after I posted my comment that it might be hurtful or offensive to some of the hurting BS's posting on this thread. But, since it had already posted I thought it might be best to leave it here. Honesty, even when it comes too late to prevent the initial catastrophe, can be beneficial towards aiding in the recovery. 

And, yes, my husband, B1, is a member of CWI. As of today, we are 11 months past D-Day and we are both striving to build a new marriage; a happy, healthy and successful marriage. We post, together, on a thread titled "Reconciliation" here on the CWI forum. The support, encouragement and direction we have received from our friends on TAM has been an invaluable resource in our recovery. Much more so than even our MC and IC has been. 

It has been through the eyes of the other BS's on TAM that I have been able to truly begin to comprehend the gut-wrenching devastation that my betrayal has caused my husband. When infidelity occurs in a marriage that was already extremely unhappy and dysfunctional, prior to the EA and/or PA, a reconciliation can be made much more difficult when the residual bitterness and resentment from the pre-A related issues begins to resurface, again. We truly learned healthy ways of working through that here on TAM.

Our marriage was initially considered a "lost cause" by nearly everyone on TAM. I think, at the time, B1 and I both agreed with that assessment. We had begun sharing our story here, initially, on separate threads, within 3 weeks of D-Day. We listened to all of the advice of the veterans, and we learned who not to listen to, and we worked, and worked and worked. We decided to work just as hard to build a new marriage as we had "worked" to destroy the old one. 

Next year, in June, 2014, we will be renewing our wedding vows on our 30th Wedding Anniversary with only our children, their spouses/significant others and our baby grandson present to share in our joy. Just us, the kids and God. No fanfare..... It isn't about the fanfare...... not anymore.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> If only you really knew....


I'm trying, I'm honestly trying.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

That's was something E1.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

EI said:


> *A letter for the Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...


You said it perfectly, EI. And I am so sorry for everyone who finds themselves here - betrayed or wayward.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> *I hate feeling resentment every day,
> *
> ...



...wow ...struck a chord when I read that!! In particular ...what I highlighted and 'blew-up' in bold.

...I have such a difficult time laughing about anything .....and it's 18 yrs after her ONS!! In a twisted way ...I'm 'glad' I'm not the only one experiencing such pain .....

...mind you ...I love my wife more than anything I've ever come to know ...and yet ...after all these years ...if she'd just TRY to grasp the pain I felt / feel ....I know it'd mean the world to me and help me move forward.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't think they are fully capable of realising the pain they have handed us. It does actually make sense that as they cheated, that on some level, it isn't the worse thing in the world they could do to us, (in their eyes)........they can not perceive our pain because to them, possibly, cheating isn't so bad.

I ask my WH often, imagine you never cheated, imagine you never even thought about it, imagine your complete trust in me, and now imagine you found out I cheated on you. The shock, the horror! But he still doesn't seem to get it! Is that because he understands cheating? In his world it isn't such a bad thing to do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## javawave (Apr 7, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...


I live every word you wrote. 7 months and the images still haunt me. I hope everyone who has ever experienced the pain finds relief.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ...wow ...struck a chord when I read that!! In particular ...what I highlighted and 'blew-up' in bold.
> 
> ...I have such a difficult time laughing about anything .....and it's 18 yrs after her ONS!! In a twisted way ...I'm 'glad' I'm not the only one experiencing such pain .....
> 
> ...mind you ...I love my wife more than anything I've ever come to know ...and yet ...after all these years ...if she'd just TRY to grasp the pain I felt / feel ....I know it'd mean the world to me and help me move forward.


I'm guessing that time doesn't heal all wounds 

Some are just too severe, too deep and infected I guess.

Do you ever regret staying with your W? 

This is my problem right now, as much as I love my stupid, selfish H I feel like I need my own space to figure out how I would be on my own......I think I might be happier in some ways, free of the pain...more able to 'let it go' if we separated.

But I do love him, and we do get along very well, we are best friends when I'm not struggling so much with what he's done to us.

I know if we separate that will be us over, i would never have him back once the world knows his dirty secrets!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I'm guessing that time doesn't heal all wounds
> 
> Some are just too severe, too deep and infected I guess.
> 
> ...


Time helps but you need a WS who really does recognize the hurt and pain they caused you.
Then they need to work their ass off to make it right,even then it still hurts.
When you have WS's like EI and my wife who really care then you have a excellent shot.
It can happen.

I'm sorry LRgirl,it gets better.
Hold on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

calvin said:


> Time helps but you need a WS who really does recognize the hurt and pain they caused you.
> Then they need to work their ass off to make it right,even then it still hurts.
> When you have WS's like EI and my wife who really care then you have a excellent shot.
> It can happen.
> ...


I want to hold on, but I can't quite decide if he's doing enough.
If I feel like he is moving on too quickly, and i'm kind of left hanging behind, then something isn't working.

I've spent a good two weeks trying desperately to explain to him that i need more. OK i have transparency, OK he has agreed to my specific boundaries without question, I have access to his e-mail and phone etc...

So he is doing a lot. He is physically looking after me. 

and yet......emotionally, on some very important level I feel he's missing it.

I need to see him actively trying to deal with the problem, the issues...I have asked him to come here, to read, to see how bad it is for the BS. But I fear it some how falls on deaf ears.

Unfortunately, it will be the undoing of us.

He's been very lucky he's had this chance from me, because I never thought I was the kind of woman to give anyone a chance if they cheated on me, not ever!...but I have given him a chance, and i feel he doesn't realise how close he is right now to losing everything.

I'm in a hole and i can't get out....deep down i think i know for me to get out I need to let him go.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I want to hold on, but I can't quite decide if he's doing enough.
> If I feel like he is moving on too quickly, and i'm kind of left hanging behind, then something isn't working.
> 
> I've spent a good two weeks trying desperately to explain to him that i need more. OK i have transparency, OK he has agreed to my specific boundaries without question, I have access to his e-mail and phone etc...
> ...


LRgirl,
Your right,he should be doing all he can to help you heal and repair all the damage.
My wife's A didn't go physical even thought she told the ex con she loved him and even met him four times in a public place.
My wife is reading...a lot,it was a little hard to get her on Tams at first but now she post everyday,she is there for me when I have bad days,she doesn't give up,she really is doing all she can.
Since my wife has come to this site she understands the pain a BS goes through,and you know LRgirl it hurts like nothing else.
My wife ( Can't Sit Still or CSS ) tells me often how sorry she is,when I hurt she hurts,we are a little more than a year out and she has not given up.
As a BS we need the WS to do EVERYTHING in their power to comfort us and prove themselves.
We can't beat them up,well not bad any way and we need to give them a chance.
If your husband really loves you and is remorseful he will read more and come to Tams for a better understanding of what the BS has to go through.
You are right about letting him go if you want to keep him,he needs to see that you will move on with or without him.
I'm sorry you're feeling all this pain,it hurts and it hurts bad.
Keep proding him to come here,it will do you both a world of good and might open his eyes.
Hang in there LRgirl.
It may not seem like it but it will get better,I hope your husband wakes up and really understands the pain he has caused.
Welcome to the club,a club none of us want to belong to.
As EI said,her and her husbands thread Reconcilliation is a great place for you to get support.
I'm on there as well as my wife.
God bless LRgirl.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

LRgirl said:


> I'm guessing that time doesn't heal all wounds
> 
> Some are just too severe, too deep and infected I guess.
> 
> ...



....I never really felt 'regret' ...until recently ...when after many years, some of the story of the ONS changed ...and the wound opened up again with a vengeance. 

...we've been going to therapy now for several weeks ...and I'm feeling better about what I now know ...how to act / react (a whole lot from what I've read here) ...and also from the therapist. 

....I've been able to (with help of the therapist) to elicit signs of profound grief / remorse from my wife ...for the first time ...ever since the ONS. That alone helped me offset the feelings / urges to think about calling it quits. 

.....I'd like to have my wife 'come here' to TAM and read about the pain that the BS experiences ....but I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do at this time.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....I never really felt 'regret' ...until recently ...when after many years, some of the story of the ONS changed ...and the wound opened up again with a vengeance.
> 
> ...we've been going to therapy now for several weeks ...and I'm feeling better about what I now know ...how to act / react (a whole lot from what I've read here) ...and also from the therapist.
> 
> ...


I think maybe a good place to start is for you to print certain threads off for her....maybe excluding the site name if you want this haven to remain private for the time being.

How long ago was the ONS?

Thanks for your kind words.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

calvin said:


> LRgirl,
> Your right,he should be doing all he can to help you heal and repair all the damage.
> My wife's A didn't go physical even thought she told the ex con she loved him and even met him four times in a public place.
> My wife is reading...a lot,it was a little hard to get her on Tams at first but now she post everyday,she is there for me when I have bad days,she doesn't give up,she really is doing all she can.
> ...


My H has been visiting TAM, infact we both joined last year, I was under the name 'gemjo' and he 'megmg'.

We did both post, although my H didn't post too much. Felt like he would post in desperation only......you know when things really got on top.

It helped me a lot, even though some of what I read really hurt....but I would prefer the truth any day, even if it does hurt. 

Hoping he will start to off-load a little here and not just read.........but reading is a start, and on some level a form of council.

I guess the hardest thing for many BS trying to work out if you have a good person (WS) who made mistake/mistakes at a bad time, or they are just callus and selfish individuals that don't deserve us.

When I see him happy and seemingly moving on, it troubles me....'easy come, easy go' comes to mind.

Thanks for your kind words, and i'm glad to hear you are doing well in your R.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> How can his world still move on and mine be standing still?


This sums it up for me.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

EI said:


> *A letter for the Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...


This isn't a letter to 'the betrayed'. This is a letter from ONE betrayer to HER betrayed. IMO this letter does not belong on this thread and just pisses me right off. 

That is not a standard that many of us BS's can relate to! 

I was actually liking this thread til this (and I don't usually bother with general bi*ching or woe is me threads - no offence OP, I am just pissed off!). 

That should be on a different thread. One for examples of what a betrayer can do to help the betrayed (examples to show the BS what remorse is). Of a betrayer who IS sorry, as opposed to the ones most of us end up with, which is a shallow sorry from a shallow man/woman who shattered their partner in the process. 

You are a very lucky woman to have a husband who forgives a betrayal of your magnitude.

Bitter and pissed off that my man never 'got it', hell yeah! 

Your letter is rare and by no means a standard. And I do not relate.



Edit:
I couldn't even read past the 1st paragraph of that letter before being pissed off, skimming the rest of the letter, and having a rant. Having decided to actually read it properly before I post I have decided not to remove my rant, it still stands on the whole, however, your letter I suppose is the desired response of a Wayward that any Betrayed would want to R with. And anything less to R with is farcical.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> OK i have transparency, OK he has agreed to my specific boundaries without question, I have access to his e-mail and phone etc...
> 
> So he is doing a lot. He is physically looking after me.
> 
> ...


This! 
Snap! 
The crumbs of sorry and regret with no fundamentals in place. No major desire to discover the why and fix the self. To change those things that led him there in the 1st place. 

I have changed!
How?
I just have. I know I have. I feel it! 
How? 

Hmmmm....And he thinks he is doing well! No, not well at all. Because all I ever asked for was the fundamentals and the crumbs. All I got was the crumbs too.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

LRgirl,you H may be acting like he's moving on,he could be scared,ashamed and trying to "pull it off" for you,projecting a sense of we are getting getting back to good,he may not.You will know over time,any decision lies with you and you only.
LR,if you don't mind I would like to address Remains.
Remains,I know you hurt,I know the pain.I would have rather been a POW than go throught what I did,what you and LRgirle had to experience.
That being said,I know EI,we have never met but she is from my home state and I will meet her and her man fairly soon.
EI feels terrible,I know this,worse than terrible,she felt like scum.
Her and my wife talk/text sometimes.
My wife tried to take her life after her A,tried to move out to a womans shelter because of how disgsuting she felt.
I wouldn't let her,I almost did a couple times,I'm glad I didn't.
EI and my wife have some things in common,if they could build a time machine they would,they would do what ever it took to have a do-over.
Well they can't,they can make amends and do their best from here on out.
They are.
A truely remorseful spouse does happen,good people made a terrible choice.
They get one shot,that's it.
I'm still sad at times but do not regret R ing,its what people show me and how hard they work on fixing the damage they done.
EI is very worthy of this chance and she's grateful,so is my wife.
I hope you start to feel better soon,I'm sorry...it hurts....extremely bad.
Sorry about the TJ LR.
Keep a eye on your H,you'll know if he's true to fixing thing.
I wish you all the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

thatbpguy said:


> You just put 10,000 words of what I would say and said it better in less than 100.




I totally agree. I have just copied and pasted this and emailed it to my husband as this is exactly how I feel but just couldn't describe it. Thank you.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I hate that you can laugh and have a good time and I feel stuck, on this spot and i'm still reeling!


I think that in many cases the laughing and having a good time is a displacement/masking activity. It's a distraction from the fact that they are hurting inside - feeling very empty and hollow. 

After all, in many cases the cheating itself was a distraction, an attempt to escape something - so its behaviour that they are well used to. 

That will all eventually catch up with them. They'll be hurting. That's little comfort to those of us who want them to feel our pain NOW, who want to see them punished while we are still around to see it. But at least it will happen, sometime.


And I speak as one whose wife just won't accept that she has done anything wrong. Shrugs off the EA she had before declaring that she wanted a divorce and thinks she is doing nothing wrong now as she has told me that the relationship is dead - thinks divorcing = divorced and its perfectly acceptable to have another relationship now.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> I think that in many cases the laughing and having a good time is a displacement/masking activity. It's a distraction from the fact that they are hurting inside - feeling very empty and hollow.
> 
> After all, in many cases the cheating itself was a distraction, an attempt to escape something - so its behaviour that they are well used to.
> 
> That will all eventually catch up with them. They'll be hurting.


Well said, Voltaire. Very insightful and perceptive.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

LRgirl,

I understand your pain. I had some of it but not that much. My EX really knocked me for a loop when I found out on DDay... I lost 30 lbs in 10 days....

I sat down and wrote down who I wanted to be in life and what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I went to the gym and I still do regularly to release.

The most important things I can tell you are is:

1. Forgive them. Forgive them for being imperfect and although you loved them, they are gone now and may never come back. They will never be who they once were. You may find love again with them but it will never be the same. Forgive them because no one is perfect. Forgive them most importantly because if you don't, you will hold that hate and bitterness and resentment inside and it will tear you apart. A man should love his wife like Jesus loved the church, forgive, forgive, forgive... If you forgive them, they will not hold any power over you to make you feel bad.

2. Your happiness is solely dependent on you. I would be going to work and I would just realize that my life was really pretty good except for 1 thing. I could either focus on all the good stuff or I could focus on the one thing. Focusing on the bad stuff makes you miserable... put it on the shelf.

Today is the first day of the rest of your life. You have a new life and you can do anything you want... What are you waiting for?

My first chance, I took the kids on our best vacation ever. We went down to Tennessee and we did what they wanted... Go Kart racing, Indoor Sky Diving, Zip Lines, White Water Rafting, Hiking, Fishing and I made them all cook and clean. I spent time with them and we bonded. Go enjoy your life. Don't let them have any power over you.

Don't be a hater. i know how you feel, but you are letting them still affect you. I'll tell you what they really are thinking...

No, No I won't because they are cheaters and betrayers and it doesn't matter what they are thinking. It doesn't matter if they are happy or sad or whatever. They are people you don't really know or people who you can let affect you. Be strong. Do something special for yourself tomorrow! You deserve it!


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...


I wish I didn't understand, but I do. The only difference in my case is that my WS isn't laughing so much; he's dealing with some anxiety and depression and guilt and shame.

Being married gave me a feeling of being more "safe" in the world because we were a pair, a team, a couple, best friends who could count on each other. That's just been blown to smithereens. I don't feel safe. I don't even trust what he says now. He can count on the fact that he could count on me to give him another chance (because I'm doing just that), yet I still can't be sure I can count on him.

The rug was just pulled out from under me 3 months ago; why should I believe he's trustworthy now? I don't have any sense of security - not yet.

He's shown remorse, but he's not healthy enough to help me heal - he can't cope with the questions I've been asking. It upsets HIM. (Sheesh.) So I hold back. And my healing gets delayed. He's in IC for his issues - he was doing that before the A. But I wish he'd get better quicker so he can face the music.

He was a good man before his anxiety and panic and depression set in. We had happy years and he did a lot of good in the world. I'm hoping that person is still in there.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

LRgirl said:


> I think maybe a good place to start is for you to print certain threads off for her....maybe excluding the site name if you want this haven to remain private for the time being.
> 
> How long ago was the ONS?
> 
> Thanks for your kind words.



....her ONS happened 18 yrs ago. And I was "railroaded" by a terrible therapist and, by my own inexperience, to just, _"put it in the past and move on ....realizing that you were BOTH to blame for her ONS and now BOTH need to work on the marriage"._

....the _*"BOTH are to blame thing" *_stuck with me like a boulder sized pebble in my shoe all these years. Then I started reading posts here in TAM and was able to shake loose any responsibility for her actions because ...I came to realize it wasn't my fault that she slept with someone else. 

.....it's only now ...with the help of the therapist ...that I'm getting her to realize that I'm not ....will not ...be a 50/50 partner having responsibility for her actions.


....we actually have a joint session of therapy in the next day or so ...I think (I'm terrible with dates) and some of the topicality of this thread will be discussed.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Remains said:


> This isn't a letter to 'the betrayed'. This is a letter from ONE betrayer to HER betrayed. IMO this letter does not belong on this thread and just pisses me right off.


I agree (and I did see your edit)._ No disrespect _to the betrayer of her long post but that this was not the place for it. I felt it was disrespectful and a defense of betraying actions to a certain degree. LR was displaying her heart and she got a defense from a betrayer. That just wasn't cool.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Hopefulgirl, your H is a lucky guy. I hope he realizes that and gets himself into high gear so that he can start doing and giving what is needed.


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## jenglenn (Jan 31, 2013)

I feel the same way at some point each day. I still consider it my responsibility to pull myself out of it. Maybe... just maybe his ability to move forward so easily is also for you. Would you rather him not be positive?


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> *Thank you for taking the time to post this....*.I believe you Re sorry and I hope you can make things ok. Is your H a member of CWI? If not you should print this off. It would mean so much to me if my H wrote this to me. You made me cry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Remains said:


> This isn't a letter to 'the betrayed'. This is a letter from ONE betrayer to HER betrayed. *IMO this letter does not belong on this thread* and just pisses me right off.





thatbpguy said:


> I agree (and I did see your edit)._ *No disrespect **to the betrayer of her long post but that *_*this was not the place for it*. I felt it was disrespectful and a defense of betraying actions to a certain degree. LR was displaying her heart and she got a defense from a betrayer. That just wasn't cool.


I apologized in my second post on this thread if I had unintentionally offended any hurting BS. But, if you'll notice the OP of this thread was not offended by my comments and, in fact, was kind enough to thank me for taking the time to make the post. CWI is a forum where all individuals who are "Coping with Infidelity" are given an opportunity to share their own experiences. My intention with this post was not to add to the suffering of anyone who is coping with infidelity. My hope was to offer some possible insight for a BS into what a WS may be thinking and feeling and why they may or may not be responding in a certain way. When my own BS and I have discussions regarding my infidelity, he doesn't just want to know what I'm thinking and feeling, but why I am thinking and feeling that way. He says that it helps him immensely. 

On TAM, I have learned that an open, honest, and respectful dialogue between BS's and WS's helps foster an atmosphere conducive to healing. When it comes to reconciliation and/or recovery from infidelity, an approach that acknowledges that there are two suffering human beings, vs. a perpetrator and a victim, encourages each individual to actively participate in their own healing. Obviously, the blame for the suffering of both the BS and the WS, that was brought about by the infidelity, lies solely with the WS. When trying to heal and move forward it becomes vital for each individual to look within themselves and to become as emotionally healthy as possible. The BS may or may not have contributed to the breakdown of the marriage. But, it can be completely destroyed by one person with the act of infidelity. It takes both to reconcile and to rebuild the marriage. At that point, each individual must acknowledge their contributions, good and bad, to the state of the marriage pre-A, if they are to have any real hope of a happier, healthier union with one another. If not with one other, then possibly with someone else.

Again, my only intention with my post was to possibly help, and certainly not hurt, anyone who is coping with infidelity. I re-read my first post very carefully. At no point did I ever attempt to defend my betraying actions. There is no justifiable defense for adultery. Now, _reasons_ for my _unhappiness_ in my marriage prior to my infidelity..... I could give you all day long. But, that definitely belongs on a different thread. They can be found in many posts on TAM. But, we all know that reasons are not justifications. 

Take care,
~EI


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

EI,
You want open, honest discussion, ok. This is not meant as an attack on you in any way, but rather an attempt to demonstrate that not all WS share your view. The pain of a BS is more universal, than the reality you are experiencing. 

I agree with the other BS who found your post inappropriate within this thread.
How nice for you and for your spouse that you are remorseful. My STBXH is not.
What a shame you feel your selfish actions have robbed you of your naiveté. I sincerely doubt your spouse is morning the loss of your naiveté.
You feel a desire to build a new life. Funny so does my STBXH-only with the OW.
How dare you express envy for a BS who has a choice to R. You had a choice not to betray your spouse. Ending the marriage does not end the feeling of utter betrayal. That precious gift hangs around. 
Your post assumes there are two suffering parties, trying to R. In some cases, that just is not true. That is why I found your post inappropriate and why it ticked me off.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

jenglenn said:


> I feel the same way at some point each day. I still consider it my responsibility to pull myself out of it. Maybe... just maybe his ability to move forward so easily is also for you. Would you rather him not be positive?


[soulpotato - Thank you for your kind words.]

LRgirl - jenglenn makes an interesting point. Your WS may not be quite as happy internally as he appears, and to some degree he may be reacting to your obvious distress. I think Voltaire is suggesting it may be unconcious on his part, but it could also be that since you're SO wounded, your WS feels the need to bring energy into the equation. Couples often do a "dance" like that, reacting to each other - one more up when the other is down.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> [soulpotato - Thank you for your kind words.]
> 
> LRgirl - jenglenn makes an interesting point. Your WS may not be quite as happy internally as he appears, and to some degree he may be reacting to your obvious distress. I think Voltaire is suggesting it may be unconcious on his part, but it could also be that since you're SO wounded, your WS feels the need to bring energy into the equation. Couples often do a "dance" like that, reacting to each other - one more up when the other is down.


Yes, He isn't happy happy....to be fair, he's very sensitive to my mood. We were at a concert and he was happy boucing around, and it p1ssed me off....because I wasn't feeling great. I've had a bad couple of weeks.

It seems to be happening, like a pattern. OK for a few weeks, and plunge back into the darkness for a few weeks.....roller coasting?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I just want to make it clear, that when I posted this thread it was from me, personally to my H. BUT.....

I also realised that most, if not All BS would relate to what I posted....and I wanted to read their 'letters', its good to relate.

I have asked my H (megmg) to come back to TAM, I want him to read and I want him to post.

I actively encourage FWS (former wayward spouse) as I personally prefer to call the WS, to post as I feel the BS can learn so much.....not just from their own FWS, but from others.

Just like I hope my H can learn from other BS that post here.

I took comfort in reading EI post and hope to God my H feels something similar as we try to move fwd in R.

I wanted a thread where FWS and BS can say how they feel....and maybe help one another.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

EI said:


> I apologized in my second post on this thread if I had unintentionally offended any hurting BS.




No offense. Just 'a letter to the betrayed' that was particularly badly worded. This is a thread with feelings that ring true to many. Your letter was written in the same spirit. But that is so far from the truth it is just annoying. That was no standard. That was no 'we all get it' kind of letter. Most of us don't (though all who want R wish we did). Much more appropriate would have been 'a letter to MY betrayed', 'I hope you can see some Waywards are not the same as many'. 




EI said:


> CWI is a forum where all individuals who are "Coping with Infidelity" are given an opportunity to share their own experiences.


 

Totally agree. I have never been part of the 'one cheater fits all sizes and bash them all' brigade.




EI said:


> My hope was to offer some possible insight for a BS into what a WS may be thinking and feeling and why they may or may not be responding in a certain way.


 

No. Disagree. This was YOUR letter to YOUR betrayed. This was no insightful thoughts of may or may not be's, this was just you. Nothing bad about the letter in and of itself, but it certainly wasn't dressed up as what a Wayward may be thinking. If our wayward was thinking what you wrote, we would have had that treatment, those words, that letter. I bet you LR's wayward hasn't said those words or wrote that letter. She wouldn't be posting what she did if he had. That is no insight into her man's mind!

And the letter wasn't written in a way that was offering an insight into why a WS may not be responding the correct way, or not. It was just YOUR feelings. Valid feelings nonetheless, but misplaced in the way it was written. And misplaced reasoning. 




EI said:


> On TAM, I have learned that an open, honest, and respectful dialogue between BS's and WS's helps foster an atmosphere conducive to healing.


 

Totally agree. I have never been part of the 'one cheater fits all sizes and bash them all' brigade. 

....conducive to healing....I would say also, more so in fact, conducive to understanding. And that in turn helps to heal.




EI said:


> The BS may or may not have contributed to the breakdown of the marriage. But, it can be completely destroyed by one person with the act of infidelity. It takes both to reconcile and to rebuild the marriage. At that point, each individual must acknowledge their contributions, good and bad, to the state of the marriage pre-A, if they are to have any real hope of a happier, healthier union with one another. If not with one other, then possibly with someone else.


 

And many are blindsided, had a good partnership and contributed well and loved fully. Some Waywards are just pure idiotic. And agreed, it takes BOTH to reconcile and rebuild.




EI said:


> I re-read my first post very carefully. At no point did I ever attempt to defend my betraying actions.


 

No, agreed fully. But the wording that started it off, on a thread such as this, with no introduction as to you and who you were REALLY writing it to, was totally misguided and misplaced. You worded it, as said at the beginning of this post, in the same spirit as that of the general feeling that BS's feel, stated perfectly by the OP, in the same spirit, like this is how waywards feel when caught and finished cheating...'A letter to the betrayed'. No, 'fraid not. No letter I have ever seen! I been here some time now too. That letter is so rare it should be locked away in the natural history museum! 

Crap title and no intro did a great disservice to your letter! 


Oooo such a sensitive subject!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Apologies LR, just read your post. And I am afraid I couldn't get to the end of the thread before I had to respond to the above. Doesn't happen very often, but it did with this one. So, apologies for being annoyed by a post that you are more than happy with on your thread.

I appreciate where you are coming from. I have tried to get my Wayward to 'see it/get it' for a long time now. He has always been worth the effort I thought, but never really put the effort in also. As I have now reached the end of the effort road, and done with the relationship, it seems he is now coming halfway and more. 

Just like the standard advice on here, the more you care the less they do. You have to be willing to lose it to save it. 

P.s. I feel he may well pounce on a suggested book if I told him right now he has to read it. This time last year he showed only disdain!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

H Sorry LSgirl,I promise no more thread jack,sorry.
I would like my wife CSS to comment here sometime if that's ok.
I really believe there are some WS here who would build a time machine to fix it all.
There are also some WS who just are actors and don't care much about what they did,maybe they don't get it?
Being a BS is the worse thing I ever went through but with the help of my wife I am slowley getting to be happy again.
I really does depend on the WS and how much they are willing to make things right.
Remains,I'm sorry how much you hurt,it just flat out sucks,more than sucks its torture.
I hope you find someone who treats you right,you and LRgirl are obviously good loyal ladies who honored their vows.
Please don't let this eat you up,it almost did me.
Some WS should be afforded the one chance at redemption,some sadly are not.
I hope you all start feeling better sooner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

I thought EI's letter was beautiful and a good example of what a letter from many a truly remorseful wayward would look like. I fully believe she posted it in the spirit of being supportive. Maybe LRgirl's wayward will say something similar to her one day soon. But if he sees this thread and the flack EI is catching for posting that letter, I wonder if he'll be scared away from this thread.  I hope not!


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> EI,
> You want open, honest discussion, ok. This is not meant as an attack on you in any way, but *rather an attempt to demonstrate that not all WS share your view*. The pain of a BS is more universal, than the reality you are experiencing.
> 
> I agree with the other BS who found your post inappropriate within this thread.
> ...


Well of course not all ws share EI's view just like not all BS's share my view.

EI does feel the need to build a new life, sorry your stbxh doesn't, this is not EI's fault, you act like she did you wrong. She did me wrong and we are building a new life. 

There are two suffering parties when both parties are truly committed to R. You are correct in some cases that is not the case, however, sometimes it is the case, like in ours. Your problems with EI's post are peppered with your own personal issues with your stbxh, I'm sure driven by pain. I am truly sorry for your pain, believe me I understand that pain, I know it firsthand. I have cried more tears in the past 11 months than I have in all my life. Yet, I love this woman and she loves me and we are surviving this nightmare.

About her post...Apparently the op and many others didn't find her post inappropriate nor did I. It was wonderful to read. Believe it or not ALL ws's are not the same, some are actually remorseful, sorry, repentant and are doing everything they can to make it up to us BS's. I can certainly vouch for EI, to say she is doing some heavy lifting would be a major understatement. To be truthful, we are both doing some heavy lifting in this R, and it's working. No, it's not always easy, but we are doing this and life is slowly getting back to normal.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

calvin said:


> H Sorry LSgirl,I promise no more thread jack,sorry.
> I would like my wife CSS to comment here sometime if that's ok.
> I really believe there are some WS here who would build a time machine to fix it all.
> There are also some WS who just are actors and don't care much about what they did,maybe they don't get it?
> ...


Agreed.
I have made my share of bad choices and I sure wanted and deserved my second chance. I envy those of you who have lived a perfect life and never needed that second chance.


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## itskaren (Dec 28, 2011)

LRgirl said:


> Thank you for taking the time to post this.....I believe you Re sorry and I hope you can make things ok. Is your H a member of CWI? If not you should print this off. It would mean so much to me if my H wrote this to me. You made me cry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel exactly the same. I too have been waiting for 6 months for something like this from my husband. I guess it's just not going to happen.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Sadly anyone who's been betrayed will understand this all too well and anyone who's never been betrayed will not comprehend it at all.


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## dsGrazzl3D (Apr 22, 2013)

EI said:


> I have learned that an open, honest, and respectful dialogue between BS's and WS's helps foster an atmosphere conducive to healing.
> ....
> At no point did I ever attempt to defend my betraying actions. There is no justifiable defense for adultery. Now, _reasons_ for my _unhappiness_ in my marriage prior to my infidelity..... I could give you all day long. But, that definitely belongs on a different thread. They can be found in many posts on TAM. But, we all know that reasons are not justifications.
> Take care,
> ~EI


I would add that (IMHO) _"an open, honest, and respectful dialogue (in marriage) helps foster an atmosphere conducive to healing. _.. *<edit> == Only* these three things (willingness to be open, honest, and have respect) could allow *ANY* relationship to be fruitful... If you do not start and hold all three qualities, then that relationship will have MAJOR problems. I am sorry that anybody has to be here in CWI.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

calvin said:


> ..... but with the help of my wife I am slowley getting to be happy again.....It really does depend on the WS and how much they are willing to make things right.
> 
> 
> Remains,I'm sorry how much you hurt,it just flat out sucks,more than sucks its torture


I am glad you have the help of your wife in R, there is no other way is there. If the help is not there, R is even more torturous, but more importantly, pointless. 

I feel maybe we are getting there, 'getting' being the operative word. I feel that over a year and half later we are only just starting. I am the fool though. Had I found this place earlier I think we would be further along, or done immediately when he stopped trying. It has taken a long time to believe in what I need FULLY, and not be manipulated away from that. And it has taken him a long time to start to truly WANT things (rather than just giving because I ask) that help that go against the grain of his personality. 

I am only hurting through my own stupidity. Of finding it so very hard to give someone up whom I am so utterly in love with and who, infidelity aside, is someone I have wanted my whole life and never thought would find. Infidelity aside, he is all I have ever wanted in a man. So, I have myself to blame for trying so hard with him. And upon pretty much giving up he is just about willing to try and do anything....I hope. 

The key? He has given little bits over time and slowly improved. His giving was only ever based on my giving up!


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

And to B1 and EI, I am glad that you 2 can offer an example of what we as BS's SHOULD be getting, expecting, hoping for. It shines a light on what we are NOT getting and brings some reality to our situation, to the ACTIONS and not just listening to the empty words.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

BI and EI,
I am truly happy that the two of you are healing and I wish you both nothing but happiness. Yes, my post included MY perspective as a BS, as it must since everyone comes to this place in their life from a different starting place. We will not all end in the same place either.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Stonewall said:


> LR,
> I understand your dark periods. I refer to mine as "When the demons visit." It sounds like he's doing everything right. It will get better. Hang on. The only problem for me is the demons retain visitation rights. I just have learned how to fight them back.
> 
> EI,
> I got some comfort out of your post. I found it Therapeutic at least for me.


Thank you for your kind words.

I have a feeling somethings will get worse before they finally get better.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

B1 said:


> Agreed.
> I have made my share of bad choices and I sure wanted and *deserved* my second chance. I envy those of you who have lived a perfect life and never needed that second chance.


A second chance is a gift, not an entitlement.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Everyone deserves a second chance, if they are DESERVING of it!

Whether they get it or not is another matter. There should be no expectation of getting it whether deserved or not.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Remains said:


> Everyone deserves a second chance, if they are DESERVING of it!
> 
> Whether they get it or not is another matter. There should be no expectation of getting it whether deserved or not.


Problem is for most BS, how can we be sure our WS is deserving or not?

There comes a point where you thought you knew this person inside out....then you get this battering of reality and realisation that actually you don't REALLY know them very well at all......and then comes the self doubt, one of the hardest things to deal with for me personally.

I can not trust my own judgement any more, I try to look to my instinct for help.....but I don't even trust that any more 

So much is damaged!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I feel Calvin's pain. I feel the pain of all BS' when I read posts like this. I am very very sorry, no one deserves to be cheated on. It is the worst thing you can do to someone. I want to undo it but his pain will always be there. I made a horrible choice that I regret and and very ashamed of. I am very grateful for this chance of R and am doing all I can to help Calvin heal. It's very hard to look at myself knowing I am not worthy and don't deserve his forgiveness. I don't think he can fully forgive and I understand. I love him more than anything and knowing how unhappy he is kills me. I get physically sick when I think about it. All I know is it is never tooo late to change and be the spouse I always should have been. Instead of working on our issues I avoided them. I did something totally stupid and selfish and put our marriage in major jeopardy. I love Calvin like crazy, for him to talke me back speaks volumes. Some people learn from their wrongs ans some don't. Well I have learned a hel of a lot about taking your spouse for granted. I don't know if some day he will decide he can't handle it and leave me, but that is his choice and it's my fault. Thank you Calvin for loving me and giving me this chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> Problem is for most BS, how can we be sure our WS is deserving or not?
> 
> There comes a point where you thought you knew this person inside out....then you get this battering of reality and realization that actually you don't REALLY know them very well at all......and then comes the self doubt, one of the hardest things to deal with for me personally.
> 
> ...


How very true. 

I think most people who are betrayed give a second chance out of weakness or fear. It's as if we are somehow to blame for the loss of relationship if we don't and/or the fear of the sudden loss of our companion.

To the betrayer, it's more a chance to manipulate and control the situation and lessen their blame and guilt. Also, if they are granted a pardon of sorts and later the relationship does end they can blame it 'not getting along' rather than their betrayal(s). 

That's why I am a strong advocate of a separation of not less than 90 days after a betrayal. The betrayed needs to clear their heads, get over their fears and evaluate whether or not they want to go on with a betrayer the rest of their lives in a shell of a marriage. Some do and some don't. I did. Twice. I failed to take the time necessary apart and if I did I think I wouldn't have set myself up again and again.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> A second chance is a gift, not an entitlement.


To me, a betrayal in a marriage is a marital capitol offense. It's akin to first degree murder as it's the single greatest "crime" one can commit against another within a marriage. 

Do murderers in real life crime get a second chance? Maybe, but not after paying for their crime. 

So a second chance for a betrayer is a special gift for them and it's amazing to me hardly one of them see as such.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I am not here to lessen the guilt.. if he left me I would know that it was my fault. I don't know that I could ever forgive myself. If he left me I still wouldn't want anyone else but him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_Also, no way do I want to manipulate. I wish I could fix it but I ', can't it is something we both have to live with.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Remains said:


> Everyone deserves a second chance, if they are DESERVING of it!.


I have a problem with that statement, even put like that.

My problem is this. If you say that someone deserves a second chance then that implies that they *should* get that second chance, and that in turn implies that the BS *should* give them a second chance. That is clearly wrong. There is absolutely no obligation on the BS to forgive, forget or provide a second chance. As I say above, a second chance is a gift. 

Thinking that you are entitled to a second chance must be the ultimate in cake eating.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Problem is for most BS, how can we be sure our WS is deserving or not?
> 
> There comes a point where you thought you knew this person inside out....then you get this battering of reality and realisation that actually you don't REALLY know them very well at all......and then comes the self doubt, one of the hardest things to deal with for me personally.
> 
> ...


I guess all you can really do is watch and wait for a while to see if more information or time assists you in making a decision as to whether you think your WS is deserving of another chance or not. 

It must be terrifying trying to figure out who your spouse is after they destroy your world, to say the least. I wish I could switch places with my own betrayed to spare her the agony that you and every other BS goes through and will be going through for a very long time. 

Your WS will have to "prove" himself to you. It is the wayward's job to prove to the betrayed through heavy-lifting and self-work (and maintaining over time) that they would not betray again if given another shot and to do everything in their power to make sure giving said chance wasn't regretted for other reasons, either. After that, if R is permitted to happen, we spend our lives doing our best to be the kind of partner/spouse we SHOULD have been, the kind that those we betrayed deserved us to be in the first place. Even then, there's a chance that our betrayed partners/spouses can and will walk at any time. We would certainly have no right to protest - because we gave up the promise of security and safety when we destroyed the security and safety of those we betrayed.

One of the things GF really struggled with initially was that a lot about me seemed to be the person she had always known, and yet I had done these horrible things to her, so how could I be the person I was supposed to have been? She had a terrible time reconciling the two perceptions. Is that where you're at now, LRgirl?


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> So a second chance for a betrayer is a special gift for them and it's amazing to me hardly one of them see as such.


I agree. I would see it as a huge gift.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> To the betrayer, it's more a chance to manipulate and control the situation and lessen their blame and guilt. Also, if they are granted a pardon of sorts and later the relationship does end they can blame it 'not gettiong along' rather than their betrayal(s).


I personally don't feel this way at all. If GF gave me a second chance, I would NOT squander it nor would I try to lessen my blame and guilt. I would remind her from time to time that it WAS my guilt and blame, and none of hers. Because she tends to take things on herself, and I wouldn't want her to do that. (I also wouldn't want her to think that I had forgotten or dismissed anything.) If that second chance didn't work and the relationship ended, I would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was my fault. Even if it was over something else on the surface, I would still know that I was the one who killed the relationship and dealt her a crippling blow in the first place. So if we couldn't recover, whose fault would it be? Mine. Not hers.



thatbpguy said:


> That's why I am a strong advocate of a separation of not less than 90 days after a betrayal. The betrayed needs to clear their heads, get over their fears and evaluate whether or not they want to go on with a betrayer the rest of their lives in a shell of a marriage. Some do and some don't. I did. Twice. I failed to take the time necessary apart and if I did I think I wouldn't have set myself up again and again.


I do think that time apart can help both the betrayed and the wayward.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I have noticed a lot of people have said the WS goes on and shrugs it off and forgets the betrayal they caused....I do not see myself ever feeling that way. I will forever remember how selfish and hurtful I was. I cannot just go on with life feeling happy and normal. It has been 15 months and I struggle big time with the depression,self hatred and anxiety from what I have done. I pray a lot. We have been in counseling over a year yet things are not all happy go lucky. I don'tknow when or if it ever will be with us. When Calvin hurts I hurt. Even when he seems fine, I still feel sad for what I've done. There are a few happy moments. I know all of you are thinking that a WS deserves a life of hell and to burn in hell. I'm sorry, I really am sorry for your pain. It's hard to want to live most days. I am here because I love my husband and children too much to do anything crazy like that. I wish I could turn back time and undo this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> I have noticed a lot of people have said the WS goes on and shrugs it off and forgets the betrayal they caused....I do not see myself ever feeling that way. I will forever remember how selfish and hurtful I was. I cannot just go on with life feeling happy and normal. It has been 15 months and I struggle big time with the depression,self hatred and anxiety from what I have done. I pray a lot. We have been in counseling over a year yet things are not all happy go lucky. I don'tknow when or if it ever will be with us. When Calvin hurts I hurt. Even when he seems fine, I still feel sad for what I've done. There are a few happy moments. I know all of you are thinking that a WS deserves a life of hell and to burn in hell. I'm sorry, I really am sorry for your pain. It's hard to want to live most days. I am here because I love my husband and children too much to do anything crazy like that. I wish I could turn back time and undo this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Question for you...

When you were betraying your spouse wasn't it exciting? Like taking a great risk and forbidden fruit? 

I'm not trying to bait you. 

However, I have talked with dozens of betrayers and all of them said, for various reasons, it was exciting. For some it was a chance to take a huge risk that they never get to take. For others it was taking a break from being "nice" and exploring a darker side. For some it was either the excitement of the chase, or being wooed. And so on and so on... Meanwhile, back at home the other half was trusting them, believing in them, trying to deal with issues in the marriage (if any serious ones existed) more honestly. Or maybe they were taking care of the kids. Either way they were innocent and unsuspecting.

So the betrayer got the excitement and the betrayed gets a lifetime of pain and self doubt... One time I collapsed of an apparent heart attack only to find out it was stress so deep and painful I passed out. I have a daughter who went sideways when my ex ran off with her rich guy, got into drugs (she was a great kid until then but lost it when her mother ran off) and now as a result has a terminal illness. She has a young child who will never fully know her and a wonderful husband who will left a widow. She is my only child and we've been close since day 1. 

My ex? She maneuvered into a couple more betrayals before I called it quits. She now denies all of it happened except the first betrayal and has nearly no relationship with her own daughter. She ended up marrying a guy well to do and lives a life of ease.

Now, the OM of her first betrayal tossed his wife and two kids to the curb to move my ex in. One was a sweet gal and went off the deep end like my daughter and then got pregnant at 15. Life over.

So I guess I can appreciate you're trying to understand what others go through, but it's far more than you know. The betrayers wild time = destroyed lives for the betrayed.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Question for you...
> 
> When you were betraying your spouse wasn't it exciting? Like taking a great risk and forbidden fruit?
> 
> ...


I'm sur CSS will chime in here later but yes,she told me it was exciting to run off and meet him.
She would meet him in a public place,get nervous and leave after five minutes,if it would have went physical I would never have attempted R.
Your right about the pain,its terrible and long lasting,even with CSS doing all she can to make it right.
I've never experienced anything like this in my life,sometimes I hate my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Problem is for most BS, how can we be sure our WS is deserving or not?
> 
> There comes a point where you thought you knew this person inside out....then you get this battering of reality and realisation that actually you don't REALLY know them very well at all......and then comes the self doubt, one of the hardest things to deal with for me personally.
> 
> ...


In the early weeks after D-Day, I had that refrain from the Who song going through my head a lot: 

"WHO are you, Who? Who? Who? WHO??"

I still refer to him as a podperson. I THOUGHT I knew him. The D-Day shocker seemed utterly impossible, so out of character - someone could have told me he was dancing nude somewhere and I would have found that easier to believe. Seriously!!

"Tell me, who the f are YOU??"

In addition to loving my WS, I have compassion for him, due to his having had serious medical issues, and now diagnosed mental health issues. Frankly, I suspect a lot of waywards have "issues" that may be subclinical variations of diagnosable things like my WS has. Call it anxiety, depression, emptiness, angst, don't know how to cope with stuff, whatever.

"I really wanna know!"

I think many people get really good at developing "personas" that they show to the world, including their spouses. I think to some extent they aren't even honest with themselves about themselves. 

This is where crisis becomes opportunity. If R is meaningful, couples can become more authentic. It's healthy to be your most authentic self with yourSELF; then to be able to be real and safe with another human being is true intimacy. I'm nowhere near that place now in my situation, but things are inching forward.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> Frankly, I suspect a lot of waywards have "issues" that may be subclinical variations of diagnosable things like my WS has. Call it anxiety, depression, emptiness, angst, don't know how to cope with stuff, whatever.
> 
> "I really wanna know!"
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes I used to get excited whenever the exOM would text me. I got addicted to him...ugg it disgusts me thinking about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Was it worth it? God no!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> I guess all you can really do is watch and wait for a while to see if more information or time assists you in making a decision as to whether you think your WS is deserving of another chance or not.
> 
> It must be terrifying trying to figure out who your spouse is after they destroy your world, to say the least. I wish I could switch places with my own betrayed to spare her the agony that you and every other BS goes through and will be going through for a very long time.
> 
> ...


:iagree: yes, I always believed my H to be this special 'one off' man who was my reflection almost, because we shared the same views, values and morals etc... 

To then find out he would take such a risk in losing you, to realise he wanted attention and validation from someone outside of our 'very special' relationship.....it makes a mockery of everything we had. After all, looking back what can I think but 'what actually did we have?'

And yet, here he is, the scariest thing, he is the same man all along, I just didn't know this very selfish, immature, part of him existed.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> :iagree: yes, I always believed my H to be this special 'one off' man who was my reflection almost, because we shared the same views, values and morals etc...


That makes it even more jarring and traumatic for you, I'm sure. You thought that you two were so much on the same page, and maybe you actually are in a lot of ways. I'm sure GF felt/feels the same, because she and I are so in tune on so many things, too.



LRgirl said:


> To then find out he would take such a risk in losing you, to realise he wanted attention and validation from someone outside of our 'very special' relationship.....it makes a mockery of everything we had. After all, looking back what can I think but 'what actually did we have?'


 Of course I don't know your WH, but I would hate to think that he was thinking clearly about that or that he thought that the two of you didn't really have anything. I can only speak for myself (please bear with me if I repeat myself), but I know I _wasn't_ really thinking at all. I was running on my dysfunctional instincts. I didn't really think of losing GF. I was too wrapped up in my own issues and selfishness, and I couldn't fathom such a thing. Sounds strange, doesn't it? Yet I felt like GF and I just WERE, so the concept of us NOT "being" eluded me. Really couldn't experience it until it happened. I can also tell you that my relationship with GF has been the most real and valuable thing I've ever experienced in my life. 

Maybe losing you was something your WH didn't really contemplate or logically decide was acceptable? I think only you and he can know that.



LRgirl said:


> And yet, here he is, the scariest thing, he is the same man all along, I just didn't know this very selfish, immature, part of him existed.


Sometimes people warp or bend the wrong way under pressure, have hidden dark places. Sometimes the smallest pieces of us can be the most destructive. Perhaps your H has such a weakness in his being.

I have it, too. I know that I never wanted to destroy anything I valued and loved, never wanted to devastate someone I loved. I never imagined I would. But I did, and I struggle to understand it on the most fundamental of levels on a daily basis. It profoundly disturbs me just as it does GF. I realized through this that I didn't entirely know who or what I was. Despite all the desire I had to be nurturing and loving, to live, I ignored that fragment of destruction in me at my own peril and it caught up with me. I can never afford to do that again.

I'm sorry that you're going through this.  I hope your H can look inside of himself and find the strength to be a better man for you and to face the things he's afraid of in himself so that he can become a safer person for you to love.


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## Single Malt (May 2, 2013)

I never had a need to feel these things or write a letter, because it all was alleviated by getting rid of her.

But I will address each one as I see it for my situation. (bolded)



LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...


This last one is heartbreaking. I know you must feel this way, but you shouldn't. Your betrayer is the damaged one.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

It is all beautiful, but there's too much negativity with all those "I hate". I know you guys have been hurt, but nurturing bad feelings and focusing so much on the wrongs will only attract more pain in your life, and in your marriage. Replace the "I hate" with "I hope", like "I hope you realize the hurt this caused and you will be patient to help me heal", "I hope we can move forward", "I hope we can rebuilt love and trust",etc.
For the letter to the betrayed, which is very beautiful and touchy ,
replace "I hate" with "I'm thankful". "I'm thankful that you find it in your heart to give me a second chance", "I'm thankful that you could choose to walk away but you stayed", "I'm thankful that I can work hard to repair what's been damaged", so on.
If you approach the same thing with a different attitude, positive changes will follow in the marriage. Negative one like "I hate" only maintains the grudges, hate and heartache...


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> It is all beautiful, but there's too much negativity with all those "I hate". I know you guys have been hurt, but nurturing bad feelings and focusing so much on the wrongs will only attract more pain in your life, and in your marriage. Replace the "I hate" with "I hope", like "I hope you realize the hurt this caused and you will be patient to help me heal", "I hope we can move forward", "I hope we can rebuilt love and trust",etc.
> For the letter to the betrayed, which is very beautiful and touchy ,
> replace "I hate" with "I'm thankful". "I'm thankful that you find it in your heart to give me a second chance", "I'm thankful that you could choose to walk away but you stayed", "I'm thankful that I can work hard to repair what's been damaged", so on.
> If you approach the same thing with a different attitude, positive changes will follow in the marriage. Negative one like "I hate" only maintains the grudges, hate and heartache...


Hort,that was excellent.
Thanks,I'm glad my ex WW are doing just that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regga (Jan 22, 2013)

EI said:


> *A letter for my Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...


I wish my WH would write something like this. It was a form of release for me to know that someone can recognize the pain a BS experiences, while being a WS. Thank you for your vulnerability.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

hopefulgirl said:


> In the early weeks after D-Day, I had that refrain from the Who song going through my head a lot:
> 
> "WHO are you, Who? Who? Who? WHO??"
> 
> ...




:iagree: particularly with the bold print.

I get the feeling my H was a different person when at work...because honestly, i never so much as saw him look at another woman when he was with me. He only ever seemed to be aware of me. Holding my hand, hand on my back. 

It seriously creeps me out now that I know there is another side to him. I have read some pretty crude emails regarding women he worked with, and some of the email photographs etc.. he had sent to him from male colleagues. 

I think if he'd been the type of H to look at other women when we passed them in the car, or just out and about, but not ever....which makes me believe he is very sly, and it isn't just a drunken thing....he went off to work daily flirting and carrying on as though I didn't matter....all the time I believe I'm his princess.

He had some gap in his life, and he allowed work relationships to fill it. It kind of makes me feel sick!

He truly pulled the wool over my eyes, this is the most disturbing factor.

 Don't think I'm going to last the distance....i don't forgive easily and I never forget anything....not even sure why I am going through the motions right now.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

michzz said:


> It stays stuck until one day you cannot stomach it anymore.
> 
> It took me many, many years to finally get to that point.
> 
> ...



I know, but I'm so scared of making the wrong decision.

How did you come to the point where you made the break?

How long after the betrayal and in between time from betrayal to leaving were you in R and happy'ish?

I really love my H and I know he loves me too....what i don't know is if he is now honest, and I doubt i ever will. This is the wedge that will drive me away from him.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I think it's fine for the betrayer to look inside and see if there is something they can work on that maybe led to their infidelity.

My youngest was diagnosed with ADHD_Inattentive early on, 4th grade. My H then decided that he had it too, always did, that's what caused all his problems in school, as a kid etc. But when talking about his affairs he decided that this was a factor I balked. I told him that that is not what ADHD is, it's a spectrum of distractability and if he was going to use that as an excuse then he had to go back and give our son a pass on all his bad behavior in the past because he has ADHD. 

He also claims he was damaged by his first marriage 40 years ago (they married when she was pregnant and he was 18) after she left him. 40 years ago and we have been married for 35 years. I have never once cheated on him or ever given him any reason to even be jealous. He also was a real stickler for our kids lying, he took it very personally and consequences of a mis-deed were worse if they lied about it. I told him he was a complete hypocrite in this area.

So fine, self-diagnose, soul search, but don't tell me you didn't know what you were doing was wrong, or you wouldn't have been deceiving and hiding things. This was cognizant behavior, not something he couldn't control. He just wanted it all.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

PamJ said:


> I think it's fine for the betrayer to look inside and see if there is something they can work on that maybe led to their infidelity.
> 
> My youngest was diagnosed with ADHD_Inattentive early on, 4th grade. My H then decided that he had it too, always did, that's what caused all his problems in school, as a kid etc. But when talking about his affairs he decided that this was a factor I balked. I told him that that is not what ADHD is, it's a spectrum of distractability and if he was going to use that as an excuse then he had to go back and give our son a pass on all his bad behavior in the past because he has ADHD.
> 
> ...



Yeah they do look for excuses......my H blames smoking weed. He smoked it ever since we met, 20 years ago, we were married, apparently 10 years before he thought he'd try cheating on me....then had another go at cheating 3 years later, and then another go 3 years after that! Strange that the 'weed' didn't prevent him from holding down a good job.

Shame he couldn't hold down a good marriage!


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Serial infidelity takes things to another level. That would make the trust issue so much more difficult. R is hard enough with "just" one affair for me to cope with.

Mental health issues and addictions can provide some part of the explanation, but never an excuse for infidelity. Lots of people have these issues and don't cheat on their spouses.

I think a WS can use a diagnosis and therapy as a springboard for getting healthier, for personal growth, for learning how to be a better spouse, for understanding their problem(s) as a contributing factor in their infidelity (there almost certainly were others, though, that have to be thoroughly explored as well).


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> Yeah they do look for excuses......my H blames smoking weed. He smoked it ever since we met, 20 years ago, we were married, apparently 10 years before he thought he'd try cheating on me....then had another go at cheating 3 years later, and then another go 3 years after that! Strange that the 'weed' didn't prevent him from holding down a good job.
> 
> Shame he couldn't hold down a good marriage!


My H was a good person in all other areas, honest, fair,compassionate, a decent boss (we own a business) loyal to his large immediate and extended family. It's only with me that he blurs the line on the lying and deceit. Lucky me. He still cannot say why he really rekindled his affair from last year. He said he was curious, liked the interaction (theirs was all phone/cyber/texting/sexting etc. had fun....never meant to hurt me again....again.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

PamJ said:


> My H was a good person in all other areas, honest, fair,compassionate, a decent boss (we own a business) loyal to his large immediate and extended family. It's only with me that he blurs the line on the lying and deceit. Lucky me. He still cannot say why he really rekindled his affair from last year. He said he was curious, liked the interaction (theirs was all phone/cyber/texting/sexting etc. had fun....never meant to hurt me again....again.


I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.but it seems that they don't consider us when they are 'cheating' ....they put us in a box and close the lid, and we cease to exist. When they open the lid they are our H again. As though they are honest and respectful men.

Maybe that's how they live with themselves?


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

I hope you both know that we're not ALL looking for excuses.  I definitely think that being broken contributed to my own infidelity, but in no way do I try to use it as some kind of excuse or justification. It was still unacceptable and horrible, regardless of my defectiveness. But I do think it aids in understanding what happened (and in addressing those gaps within), because let's face it, would a healthy, normal person do something to destroy the happiness of the person they love as well as their own happiness? I don't think they would.

It's a fact that psychological issues can contribute to infidelity. Why? Because people with psychological issues don't function in a normal, healthy way, and relationships with others often bring that out front and center like nothing else can. Some of us really don't know or get this stuff on an instinctive, second-nature level. We have to learn how healthy people cope and function in relationships, and how to nurture and support relationships and avoid self-sabotage and self-destructiveness.

Personally, I feel terrible for what I've done to GF, and my self-delusional little survival circles kept me from having to face it for way too long. After finally realizing that, and how I've devastated the person I've loved most in this world, the only person who ever really made me feel safe and accepted, I was ready to put a bullet through my brain and remove myself from the planet. But for some reason, GF didn't want that. She still thinks I'm a worthwhile person. She says she would be sad. So here I am trying to fix myself instead.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.but it seems that they don't consider us when they are 'cheating' ....they put us in a box and close the lid, and we cease to exist. When they open the lid they are our H again. As though they are honest and respectful men.
> 
> Maybe that's how they live with themselves?


This standard operating procedure is generally the way that all cheaters behave, male of female. They become so self involved that they don't even notice that anyone from their married life anf family even exists.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> I hope you both know that we're not ALL looking for excuses.  I definitely think that being broken contributed to my own infidelity, but in no way do I try to use it as some kind of excuse or justification. It was still unacceptable and horrible, regardless of my defectiveness. But I do think it aids in understanding what happened (and in addressing those gaps within), because let's face it, would a healthy, normal person do something to destroy the happiness of the person they love as well as their own happiness? I don't think they would.
> 
> It's a fact that psychological issues can contribute to infidelity. Why? Because people with psychological issues don't function in a normal, healthy way, and relationships with others often brings that out front and center like nothing else can. Some of us really don't know or get this stuff on an instinctive, second-nature level. We have to learn how healthy people cope and function in relationships, and how to nurture and support relationships and avoid self-sabotage and self-destructiveness.
> 
> Personally, I feel terrible for what I've done to GF, and my self-delusional little survival circles kept me from having to face it for way too long. After finally realizing that, and how I've devastated the person I've loved most in this world, the only person who ever really made me feel safe and accepted, I was ready to put a bullet through my brain and remove myself from the planet. But for some reason, GF didn't want that. She still thinks I'm a worthwhile person. She says she would be sad. So here I am trying to fix myself instead.


Hi Soulpotato, I say excuse, my H says 'reason'.....but then he quickly says...'i'm not making excuses' and 'none of this is your fault'

I guess if i'm being very rational, and understanding, he explains his only 'reasoning' to me...and it kind of makes sense, and yet what he says is he needed to feel wanted, he needed to feel attractive, he had a hole in himself, he needed his ego feeding....HE NEEDED.....to hell with what it would do to me/us. 

So while on some level I can understand, probably because I also had needs...I also had holes, but I didn't allow anyone else in to try to patch up my holes. I kind of thought we were married for years and years, we had 4 babies we love and we had a bond that was unique. What could anyone else bring to this equation.......why would i allow some nobody into my life, my body, my marriage? It never even crossed my mind.

I came from a broken family. Both my parents cheated. My Brother killed himself when he was 29, a lot of his problems i believe stem from my parents separating. My H knew all this. many times we would have the discussion, don't go down that path......don't fall into these traps. Life is hard now but we will have our time. But he went down that path, he fell into that trap, he couldn't wait until our time came. Selfish, immature, pathetic!

When you say 'broken' what do you refer to? What did your GF not give you that you needed to get somewhere else?

What hole did she not fill?

You see my H says 'none of this is your fault' but when he also says, he didn't feel 'loved', or 'wanted' or 'attractive' then he is blaming me, indirectly.

He's saying i didn't fill these gaps....I left them empty and available for someone else to fill.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Temporary insanity?
My WW said she was selfish,she even went so far as to try to take a bunch of pills to kill herself.
She thought it would make me feel better if she was out of the picture for good.
She wasn'nt trying to scare me into staying with her she just thought me and the kids would be better off.
15 months into R and it is still a little rough but its getting much better lately.
It really does depend on the WS,do they realise the damage they caused and how far are they willing to go to fix it.
It still sucks but I think the degree of hurt can vary
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

michzz said:


> I thought in 94 she cheated once, possibly a week or two. Major rugsweeping and false reconciliation for a toxic number of years. I thought we were repairing things. I got the disgusting truth by bluffing in 2008, yeah, 2008. She had cheated for 8 years. Hid it another 6 or 7 years after she finished the affair.
> 
> But even then i tried to fix things, but it was not possible. She was so deceptive. I finally came to my senses when she booked a trip to Hawaii right when we were selling our house a year ago. To chant for the planet and swim with dolphins or some such nonsense. This with a group she was to not associate with if to remain married to me.
> 
> ...


Good for you. I hope you will be very happy with your new lady. You deserve the very best.

I'm also happy to hear your grown up children are fine with it all.

Dare I ask, how is the X ?


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

calvin said:


> Temporary insanity?
> My WW said she was selfish,she even went so far as to try to take a bunch of pills to kill herself.
> She thought it would make me feel better if she was out of the picture for good.
> She wasn'nt trying to scare me into staying with her she just thought me and the kids would be better off.
> ...


We are generally doing very good.....we have lots of very good days, but i still have some very bad days too.

I know he is very sorry, but i just have this horrible doubt he holds things back from me....even now, after everything we have come through.

I truly don't believe he will ever cheat again...but I feel I must know I have the truth of everything past so that i can fully move on and start a fresh with him.

Not too much to ask for under the circumstances....catch 22.....i keep saying 'i need the whole truth' he keeps saying 'you have the whole truth'

stale mate!


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I guess if i'm being very rational, and understanding, he explains his only 'reasoning' to me...and it kind of makes sense, and yet what he says is he needed to feel wanted, he needed to feel attractive, he had a hole in himself, he needed his ego feeding....HE NEEDED.....to hell with what it would do to me/us.


Desperate people just trying to survive and get by can be really selfish, needy, and protective of their fragile egos and core wounds. Sometimes they sacrifice without even realizing what they are sacrificing. They can hurt people without even trying. His hole that he's trying to fill really has nothing to do with you. The healing of it has to start with him. I've had a black hole that nobody could ever fill, too. That's what therapy is for - closing the gate on it so that GF and I can be safe from the ravenous void in me.



LRgirl said:


> So while on some level I can understand, probably because I also had needs...I also had holes, but I didn't allow anyone else in to try to patch up my holes. I kind of thought we were married for years and years, we had 4 babies we love and we had a bond that was unique. What could anyone else bring to this equation.......why would i allow some nobody into my life, my body, my marriage? It never even crossed my mind.


You're a different person, functional and healthy in ways that he isn't. Probably more functional overall.



LRgirl said:


> I came from a broken family. Both my parents cheated. My Brother killed himself when he was 29, a lot of his problems i believe stem from my parents separating. My H knew all this. many times we would have the discussion, don't go down that path......don't fall into these traps. Life is hard now but we will have our time. But he went down that path, he fell into that trap, he couldn't wait until our time came. Selfish, immature, pathetic!


I'm so sorry to hear that.  You've really been through a lot of terrible things in your life. 

We all have different vulnerabilities and strengths. Some of us are weak in really huge, catastrophic ways. We can seem okay and normal to the casual observer, but it's the people closest to us who experience the fall-out of our failures and dysfunction. You seem to be very resilient and together, which is a very good thing. You weathered a lot of trauma and still weren't destroyed by it.



LRgirl said:


> When you say 'broken' what do you refer to? What did your GF not give you that you needed to get somewhere else?
> 
> What hole did she not fill?


When I say "broken", I mean people who aren't whole, aren't healthy, are dysfunctional. I said in another thread that those of us who become broken often carry certain sets of vulnerabilities, and when the environment acts on those in certain ways, we become broken. (For instance, with BPD, a child is born extremely emotionally reactive. Their brain is literally wired differently. But they ONLY develop BPD in an invalidating environment. If they grow up in a healthy environment, they will never develop BPD. It's a combination of biological and environmental factors.) I think that most (if not all) cheaters are broken, but *not everyone who is broken or struggling with mental health issues will cheat*. 

GF and I had some relationship problems, but a lack of something from her is not why I cheated. It's complicated, but I'll give you the shortest version I can. I cheated because of my own deficiencies: lack of distress tolerance, fear of engulfment, fear of abandonment and rejection, lack of communication skills, trust issues, poor judgment, poor impulse control, poor boundaries!!, lack of consistent self-image/identity, the need to avoid shame (yeah, go figure - I can explain this if you want to know), and conviction that I was bad and thus didn't deserve anything good (so I had to destroy or sabotage myself). These things are all part of a PD I've been diagnosed with, borderline personality disorder. I could go into the intricacies of it and how it affects me and those close to me, but but it would be seriously tl;dr (too long, don't read). 

Just had a conversation with GF last night about this. She has been worried that I chose her (instead of the last remaining OW) because she was "safe". I was like, "Are you kidding? You're the most frightening choice of all. I didn't even know if I had a snowball's chance in hell at R with you, yet I chose to try without any of my usual backup plans. A relationship with you is the good thing I shouldn't have, the good person I don't deserve. (Deep down, I believe I don't deserve anything but suffering and misery.) How dare I try to have something good (is how I feel). It's terrifying to reach for the thing I really want (happiness, someone good and worthwhile) instead of the thing I know I can have and believe I deserve (toxic people, bad relationships). To try for you is unsafe, and failing would be devastating. You think falling in with the toxic people is unsafe, but it's the safest, most predictable thing I know. They're a dime a dozen so they'll always be around, I don't have to try, I don't have to be afraid, and it's what I'm used to, what's comfortable." 

So you see, it's all about my problems and fears.



LRgirl said:


> You see my H says 'none of this is your fault' but when he also says, he didn't feel 'loved', or 'wanted' or 'attractive' then he is blaming me, indirectly.
> 
> He's saying i didn't fill these gaps....I left them empty and available for someone else to fill.


He might not be blaming you, though. Different brains, remember. I thought the same things about wanting to be wanted, loved, and attractive, but it was because of that void and my deep, deep insecurity. It's totally irrational. I used to often feel that I wanted everyone I encountered to love me, because that's like the ultimate form of validation, isn't it? But at some point, I realized how unfair and hypocritical that was, and unhealthy. Not to mention, any disapproval or rejection from GF, perceived or otherwise, was enough to send me running for the hills. So instead of being able to communicate my vulnerability and pain to her, I would feel compelled to find some random person who fit the familiar cycle who would just say that they loved me or I was great or whatever. (I'm so sorry if I'm not making any sense. Every time I edit this, I see another typo or something incomplete, and I feel like my brain is not working very well right now.)

Not GF's fault or lack, and not yours with your H, either. A cheater's actions are about his/her own weakness and brokenness.

I hate this and regret it more than I can say, but since I can't undo the past, I just have to keep working on myself and trying to tell (and show) her how sorry I am. She called while I was replying earlier (I was in tears when I answered the phone) and I asked her how she is able to think about R with me. She said that it's because she sees the changes in me, and those coupled with my remorse make it so that I'm not the same person I was before (in the negative ways), which is enough for her. She just needs to know that she can trust that the changes are permanent.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...


I wish that my sweet angel wife had said this exact same thing to me


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

EI said:


> *A letter for my Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...


25 plus years later I am compelled to write something like this. I will use my own words but they will be inspired by EI


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Reason for cheating- stupid selfishness. There is no excuse. Don't get me wrong, I had a bunch of excuses so that I didn't have to deal with the truth ....that it was my fault. Nobody deserves to be cheated on. It took some time but I did get a good look at myself and did not like what I saw. I hate what I did. Hate how I hurt Calvin and my kids, heck and myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

CantSitStill said:


> Reason for cheating- stupid selfishness. There is no excuse. Don't get me wrong, I had a bunch of excuses so that I didn't have to deal with the truth ....that it was my fault. Nobody deserves to be cheated on. It took some time but I did get a good look at myself and did not like what I saw. I hate what I did. Hate how I hurt Calvin and my kids, heck and myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, I think any remorseful wayward would agree with that and could relate. It's difficult to face ourselves, but once we have, we can become better people who will never betray again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> Desperate people just trying to survive and get by can be really selfish, needy, and protective of their fragile egos and core wounds. Sometimes they sacrifice without even realizing what they are sacrificing. They can hurt people without even trying.


SP I can certainly buy that many cheaters are damaged people. But it sounds a bit like you are saying that the "had" to have an affair because they were damaged. That's a bit like the responsibility avoiding excuse of the WAS who says that they "had" to walk away because their marriage was so awful.

Damaged people have choices and free will. Damaged people can and do make decisions - decisions that they need to take responsibility for. Damaged people can, for the most part, articulate their needs and ask someone to meet their needs (funny that they always seem to manage to do this with AP but are "unable" to do this with their spouse). 

Damaged people often make dumb, selfish and very hurtful choices. But the fact that they are damaged doesn't let them off the hook. They are still responsible for those choices.

And a damaged person who is lucky enough to have found a spouse who loves them, understands them and supports them, damage and all, is incredibly lucky and should be the VERY LAST PERSON ON EARTH who should turn their back on all that.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> SP I can certainly buy that many cheaters are damaged people. But it sounds a bit like you are saying that the "had" to have an affair because they were damaged. That's a bit like the responsibility avoiding excuse of the WAS who says that they "had" to walk away because their marriage was so awful.
> 
> Damaged people have choices and free will. Damaged people can and do make decisions - decisions that they need to take responsibility for. Damaged people can, for the most part, articulate their needs and ask someone to meet their needs (funny that they always seem to manage to do this with AP but are "unable" to do this with their spouse).
> 
> ...


Voltaire, I'm NOT trying to say that at all.  That's why I go out of my way to say that brokenness doesn't excuse or justify anything and that cheating is still unacceptable and the fault of the cheater. I try to say it often because the last thing I want is for someone to think that I feel how you stated above. Every day, I am ashamed of myself and full of self-loathing for how I've acted and what I've done. I was trying to explain brokenness and answer the "why", not trying to say I wasn't responsible for my own actions. I'm horrified that it struck you that way. I would never say I wasn't responsible for my actions because of my BPD/being damaged, but it wouldn't be accurate if I didn't talk about the major part it has played. I've previously debated with myself on talking about it precisely for this reason.

I am fortunate and I feel that all the time. I would never turn my back on any of this - not on my responsibility and not on how lucky I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> Voltaire, I'm NOT trying to say that at all.


Thank you for the clarification.

There is a very fine dividing line between explaining and excusing. It's easy to see an explanation as an excuse. It's easy for a wrongdoer to use an explanation as an excuse. And it's easy for a WS to use an explanation as a means of making sure that the focus of attention remains on them and their needs. Glad to hear that you weren't doing any of that - but others do. 

I wish I was hard-hearted enough to say that WS's deserve all the empathy and understanding they give BS's during the affair - i.e. none. But when a WS does enjoy some understanding from the BS during R they should be truly grateful for it and not push it or milk it.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Thank you for the clarification.
> 
> There is a very fine dividing line between explaining and excusing. It's easy to see an explanation as an excuse. It's easy for a wrongdoer to use an explanation as an excuse. And it's easy for a WS to use an explanation as a means of making sure that the focus of attention remains on them and their needs. Glad to hear that you weren't doing any of that - but others do.
> 
> I wish I was hard-hearted enough to say that WS's deserve all the empathy and understanding they give BS's during the affair - i.e. none. But when a WS does enjoy some understanding from the BS during R they should be truly grateful for it and not push it or milk it.


Yes, I agree, and I apologize if I caused you or any other BS distress. I wouldn't make excuses for myself or any other wayward. With my GF, I answer whatever she asks, but I maintain the focus on her and her needs.

You're right, and I agree. Sometimes her compassion and kindness towards me hurts for that very reason. She has been very gentle with me, and never even properly lashed out. I know I can never deserve her or how good she's being to me, but I'll do everything I can for her. I'm immensely grateful for the way she is towards me and that she still loves me. It amazes me, and it's so much more than I could have ever hoped for. I would never push it or milk it, and I will NOT screw up again. Over my dead body.

I also want to say that I'm grateful to the BSs I've spoken to on TAM. You're all struggling with pain and betrayal and getting triggered all the time, but so many of you have been patient, gentle, and kind with me and other waywards. I deeply appreciate it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> Yes, I agree, and I apologize if I caused you or any other BS distress. I wouldn't make excuses for myself or any other wayward. With my GF, I answer whatever she asks, but I maintain the focus on her and her needs.
> 
> You're right, and I agree. Sometimes her compassion and kindness towards me hurts for that very reason. She has been very gentle with me, and never even properly lashed out. I know I can never deserve her or how good she's being to me, but I'll do everything I can for her. I'm immensely grateful for the way she is towards me and that she still loves me. It amazes me, and it's so much more than I could have ever hoped for. I would never push it or milk it, and I will NOT screw up again. Over my dead body.
> 
> ...



I only wish my H could get it, and realise what i really need right now is for him to do what you are doing.

I need to see him open up, look closely at himself, analyse himself....talk openly about what he did, how it made him feel and how he feels now.

I am under the table searching for crumbs dropped from other former WS's.....to try to help me understand that you are feeling sad, and feeling pain and upset and disgust and even hatred at what has happened.

He seems to think that just being there for me physically is enough......he hugs me, allows me to talk, he answers my questions, although still very guarded I feel. He gives one answer and if I don't look happy with it he changes it and says 'i didn't exactly mean that', like he's searching for the right thing to say.......*the right thing to say at any given moment would be the truth!*

So I am back here at TAM, hoping soon, and before it's too late that he will 'get it' and do what is required.

He reads here and has posted last year under megmg, but he hasn't posted recently.

So I look to other WS to counsel me. 

I really appreciate those former WS that take the time and trouble to post here, accepting the grief they are thrown as it comes.....without too much fuss.

I know my man is a good man, and I feel he is right for me, but I am unhappy a lot of the time, and to make me happy again is going to take a long time and lot of effort....but he is so far off convincing me right now I should stay with him. What is there to get? I spell it out for him here, night after night!

Thanks SP for all your support. I truly hope your GF finds her way here from time to time to read the effort you are putting in to make yourself whole again.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I only wish my H could get it, and realise what* i really need right now is for him to do what you are doing.*


Thank you so much for saying this. It means a lot to me to hear this. 

Saw your WH just a few minutes ago in another thread.  Good sign.



LRgirl said:


> I need to see him open up, look closely at himself, analyse himself....talk openly about what he did, how it made him feel and how he feels now.


I hope he gets there soon. His spirit seems to be willing. The fact that he has started posting on TAM again seems to imply that he is ready to participate and communicate!



LRgirl said:


> I am under the table searching for crumbs dropped from other former WS's.....to try to help me understand that you are feeling sad, and feeling pain and upset and disgust and even hatred at what has happened.


Absolutely we are feeling sad, upset, disgusted, sick, and even hating. But I know it's essential that those things are spoken clearly for a BS to hear. Some other former waywards on here were talking about feeling nauseous or getting sick when they've thought about their actions and what they've done to their faithful, loving spouses. I have felt the same things, and I suspect it's quite common and comes with the territory. 

(LRgirl's WH, do you want to chime in and tell her how you feel?)

Maybe he's not so good at telling you and that's something that he needs to work on, but I saw in his earlier posts that he talked about crying and feeling it when you were disconnected. His recent post indicates that you are the most important thing to him, so maybe he has straightened his priorities out? 



LRgirl said:


> He seems to think that just being there for me physically is enough......he hugs me, allows me to talk, he answers my questions, although still very guarded I feel. He gives one answer and if I don't look happy with it he changes it and says 'i didn't exactly mean that', like he's searching for the right thing to say.......*the right thing to say at any given moment would be the truth!*
> 
> So I am back here at TAM, hoping soon, and before it's too late that he will 'get it' and do what is required.


Sounds like he needs to initiate and open up more. Maybe he doesn't know which moments are the "right" ones to bring the subject up. I know I struggle with that sometimes. Sometimes I have something I want to discuss or reassure GF about, but when she seems to be having a happy/more carefree moment, I feel like I'll ruin her good time if I say it right then. So I try to time it so that she can at least have those times in peace.

I think your H might be letting his anxiety influence his responses. Have you told him how much that bothers you and affects your ability to trust what he says? 



LRgirl said:


> I really appreciate those former WS that take the time and trouble to post here, accepting the grief they are thrown as it comes.....without too much fuss.


That's really sweet. 



LRgirl said:


> I know my man is a good man, and I feel he is right for me, but I am unhappy a lot of the time, and to make me happy again is going to take a long time and lot of effort....but he is so far off convincing me right now I should stay with him. What is there to get? I spell it out for him here, night after night!


Do you think he is willing to do whatever it takes to bring you happiness again? If you can still see him that way, there's still hope. Having knowledge and practicing what one has learned are two different things, so maybe he's stuck on the implementation. :scratchhead:

*(Come on, megmg! You love this woman and you know she's great, one-of-a-kind, so make her happy! She's giving you a huge gift, a miracle. She's waiting for you, and the chips are down. So make this R work!) *



LRgirl said:


> Thanks SP for all your support. I truly hope your GF finds her way here from time to time to read the effort you are putting in to make yourself whole again.


You are so very welcome.  Thank you!! Even if she doesn't come and read what I write here, I know she sees what I'm doing. She told me this morning that she is happy with me and feels good about things. :smthumbup:

_P.S. I hope my optimism doesn't irritate or antagonize anyone! I'm not trying to make excuses for megmg, just trying to help and encourage._


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> I have a problem with that statement, even put like that.
> 
> My problem is this. If you say that someone deserves a second chance then that implies that they *should* get that second chance, and that in turn implies that the BS *should* give them a second chance. That is clearly wrong. There is absolutely no obligation on the BS to forgive, forget or provide a second chance. As I say above, a second chance is a gift.
> 
> Thinking that you are entitled to a second chance must be the ultimate in cake eating.


I was writing more generally. Which is why I did not just write that everyone deserves a second chance, I also wrote that...

"Whether they get it or not is another matter. There should be no expectation of getting it whether deserved or not."

Which I think pretty much says what you say. There is no entitlement to a second chance! There should be no expectation either. Expectation IS entitlement. I think the implications you deduce are wrong. Because as I said, "there should be no expectation". 

Everyone DOES deserve a second chance if they are deserving of one. Course they do. We all do! BUT......there can be NO expectation of one. If we screwed up we take the consequences. A second chance is a HOPE and that is all it can be. If they cannot give a second chance, that is no one's fault than the person who screwed up!


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> ----------snip-------------
> 
> *You see my H says 'none of this is your fault' but when he also says, he didn't feel 'loved', or 'wanted' or 'attractive' then he is blaming me, indirectly.*
> 
> ----------snip-------------


I see a fair amount of this from recovering WS on TAM.

It often goes undetected. 

The WS who say it are unaware (I hope) of the corollary you just identified.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.but it seems that they don't consider us when they are 'cheating' ....they put us in a box and close the lid, and we cease to exist. When they open the lid they are our H again. As though they are honest and respectful men.
> 
> Maybe that's how they live with themselves?


Compartmentalization.

It is a long word that looks like it needs to be corrected, the more I look at it.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

Hortensia said:


> It is all beautiful, but there's too much negativity with all those "I hate". I know you guys have been hurt, but nurturing bad feelings and focusing so much on the wrongs will only attract more pain in your life, and in your marriage. Replace the "I hate" with "I hope", like "I hope you realize the hurt this caused and you will be patient to help me heal", "I hope we can move forward", "I hope we can rebuilt love and trust",etc.
> For the letter to the betrayed, which is very beautiful and touchy ,
> replace "I hate" with "I'm thankful". "I'm thankful that you find it in your heart to give me a second chance", "I'm thankful that you could choose to walk away but you stayed", "I'm thankful that I can work hard to repair what's been damaged", so on.
> If you approach the same thing with a different attitude, positive changes will follow in the marriage. Negative one like "I hate" only maintains the grudges, hate and heartache...


This is good modern pop psychology.

Earlier good pop psychology advised one to express one's feelings and let it all hang out.

How time changes things!


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

I was with my wife the other night. We were out talking about our son's marrages and I said the word resentment. I watched her face change to something I have never seen in 40 years.She went to a very dark place but did not say a word. If I opened up at that moment,it could have been over right then and there.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> I was with my wife the other night. We were out talking about our son's marrages and I said the word resentment. I watched her face change to something I have never seen in 40 years.She went to a very dark place but did not say a word. If I opened up at that moment,it could have been over right then and there.


Why do you think your wife's face went dark when you said the word 'resentment' 55?

Was she suspicious from back when you had your A ? Do you think she might have known about it?

Do you think maybe she could have had an A herself? maybe she has her own guilt hidden away and that is why she said 'she doesn't deserve you'

Hope you are ok?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

LRgirl it's hard to imagine but anything is posable Remember I did say that a wife has a 6th sence for these things where a man's ego wound not concieve of such a notion unless he is insecure.I think in her heart she knows


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> LRgirl it's hard to imagine but anything is posable Remember I did say that a wife has a 6th sence for these things where a man's ego wound not concieve of such a notion unless he is insecure.I think in her heart she knows


Maybe she does, but let me tell you, there is a world of difference between thinking you know something and really _knowing_ because you have proof or confession.

If she 'knows' or thinks she knows....and she has never confronted you, then she doesn't want to know, if you know what I mean. She would have had you by the balls by now if she suspected and wanted to hear the truth.....

I would never normally advocate keeping something like this from a spouse....but in your particular situation I would not confess for confessions sake.

That would be you unburdening yourself, ridding yourself from guilt....what purpose would it serve? You would break her heart.

Some members here will certainly not agree with me, and they would always say, 'give her the choice to stay or go' blah blah blah.....but why destroy her if she doesn't know or doesn't want to know? Sometimes ignorance really is bliss!

Maybe she knows something but has chosen to turn a blind eye as she knows you are making amends now and forever. You are the man now you should have always been.

Having said all that....if she wants to know the truth, if she asks you in a serious manner then maybe, only then, should you confess....but her reaction will not be pretty or understanding. She will be devastated and broken and your whole family will be in jeopardy. You would have to be prepared to lose them all forever.

But, I really wouldn't know how you live with the guilt....i'm guessing it amplifies as the years pass by....that is another price to pay when you don't get caught. I guess a cheater cannot win, unless he/she really has no conscience or shame.

....because there are cheaters who would quite easily live with what they have done/doing and only have guilt once they are caught....and even then it's probably not guilt, just hassle that their BS now knows that they are a piece of sh!t!

Some cheaters will never experience the remorse you feel.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

When Calvin asks me things and I know he may not like the answer, I still think he deserves the truth. I hate the hurt he feels but it's gotta be a thousand times worse than my pain from the horrible choices I made. So yes honesty is best, it hurts but would hurt worse if I wasn't honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Lrgirl. 

I'm not living easily with anything at the moment least of all myself !!

If I could put wrong the many hurts I have caused you I would in the blink of an eye, I know you don't understand some of my stupid decisions and I don't understand why I made those decisions in the spur of the moment either (apart from being confused, selfish, drunk, drug filled... Etc.... Before you all jump down my throat no they are not excuses)... I have told you the truth even if it is not understandable or you want it to be something else... I am truly sorry x


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

megmg said:


> Lrgirl.
> 
> I'm not living easily with anything at the moment least of all myself !!
> 
> If I could put wrong the many hurts I have caused you I would in the blink of an eye, I know you don't understand some of my stupid decisions and I don't understand why I made those decisions in the spur of the moment either (apart from being confused, selfish, drunk, drug filled... Etc.... Before you all jump down my throat no they are not excuses)... I have told you the truth even if it is not understandable or you want it to be something else... I am truly sorry x


You need to really dig deep and stop being so defensive. Seriously, can some other former WS come in and help us out here.

We want heart to hearts, not defense on the battle field.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

megmg said:


> Lrgirl.
> 
> I'm not living easily with anything at the moment least of all myself !!
> 
> If I could put wrong the many hurts I have caused you I would in the blink of an eye, I know you don't understand some of my stupid decisions and I don't understand why I made those decisions in the spur of the moment either (apart from being confused, selfish, drunk, drug filled... Etc.... Before you all jump down my throat no they are not excuses)... I have told you the truth even if it is not understandable or you want it to be something else... I am truly sorry x


I know you might feel ganged up on and pretty unhappy right now, but I'm putting in my two cents because I just want to help you and LRgirl. So here it is.

Honestly, I think you're getting in your own way.  Ego and defensiveness have to go if you really want to make this work. You have to lay down your shield and be totally open and receptive to LRgirl. It seems like you still have a wall up right now. You say you are sorry, but then you say something like, "I have told you the truth even if it is not understandable or you want it to be something else..." This is almost like a negation of the apology. I can't put my finger on it...but.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Let me say, as a WS. The question " why"? Will never get answered. We don't understandwhy ourselves we can tell you how we felt at the time. I have said time and time again that I felt fed up with Calvin. The problem is that was not the correct way to deal with how I felt. I always escaped from conflict by walking out the door their were no excuses. There is no excuseto take a walk or just avoiding talking by putting my nose in a book. What I should have done was communicate and get counseling. So there really is no why. The
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

My whole post is jumbled. Ok my point is, there is no excuse for cheating. I know this and did it anyway. It was very very wrong in so many ways. If you keep asking why, you will hear how we felt at the time and how we poorly dealt with it. You will never know why if we don't have any reason to excuse our behavior. What we did was wrong and as a remorseful spouse, I wish I could go back in time and had made a better choice. The good news is I have learned a heck of a lot from this and will never do it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

In a WS' mind they justify their behavior by telling themselves they weren't being treated right. It is a mind game they play with themself to not feel guilty..sick? DEFINATLY!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

megmg said:


> Lrgirl.
> 
> I'm not living easily with anything at the moment least of all myself !!
> 
> If I could put wrong the many hurts I have caused you I would in the blink of an eye, I know you don't understand some of my stupid decisions and I don't understand why I made those decisions in the spur of the moment either (apart from being confused, selfish, drunk, drug filled... Etc.... Before you all jump down my throat no they are not excuses)... I have told you the truth even if it is not understandable or you want it to be something else... I am truly sorry x


You'll never be able to right this wrong.
Ever.
Well,that's not quiet right.You can but it will take awhile,maybe years of you proving yourself over and over.
She deserves that,right?
You ripped out her heart then danced on it.
She has given you a chance.
You change,don't be selfish again,spent time proving you're worth it,prove you can be trusted.
Communicate,both of you.Understand what you have done.
It s going to take a lot of time,a broken leg or arm heals in a few months,a heart?
That's complicated.
Read,go to counseling,listen to her and show it all with actions,not words.
No empty promises.The biggest thing for me as a BS is for the WS too have a worlds worth of patience.
A BS trying to R is not for the weak.
CSS is my wife,I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Through this horrible thing the only good is that I have learned a lot about myself and my faults and I can now work on changing myself to be a more attentive wife and stop avoiding conflict. I have taken a good look at myself and I looked pretty ugly. The good news is, it's never too late to change. If Calvin left me, I still wouldn't want any other man. I just wish I had seen all my faults years ago so that this never would have happend. I am very grateful for this one and only chance that I really don't deserve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

CantSitStill said:


> In a WS' mind they justify their behavior by telling themselves they weren't being treated right. It is a mind game they play with themself to not feel guilty..sick? DEFINATLY!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I refer to all 3 of your postings here....I kind of know the why.

We were very busy with work and kids and stressed with lack of money etc...just bought a new house...trying to make two ends meet....work, kids, work, kids, work, kids!!!!!

Life was hectic....and I fully admit I took my eye of the ball....he wasn't getting my attention, he wasn't getting much from me in any way because I was exhausted....seriously....went from working part-time to full time and 4 kids and doing everything I did before as a part time worker and full-time mum...and I was tired all the time.

I would always put the kids first, when i say kids, we're talking two eldest were almost twenty. (I had them young!) If I was talking to H and the kids interrupted I would listen to the kids first. I could see this only once he pointed it out to me.(He should really have pointed it out at the time)

He didn't do too much to help me...we have both acknowledged this. He knows this now and can see it clearly. He was a weed head...God only knows how he held down his job, but he did.

He has always looked after me physically and emotionally...I always felt like his Princess....hence the shock of what i found out. 

It was so unexpected, I was on some huge pedestal one minute and next i'm crawling round on my belly!

We can both see where and when we went wrong.

The thing is, I thought he was made of sterner stuff....I thought he was 'in it' with me, I didn't realise he was unhappy, or felt unloved or unattractive or unwanted, but yes I can see this now.

Did he ever try to make changes....yes he did. But I was too tired to go out with him, too tired to do anything but blimp out on the sofa in the evening. His needs were not met and my needs were not met.

So, even though i know what he did was very very wrong, i can see how it came about.

So I know the why?.....

I simply am stuck, not knowing what he can do to make things right again. He is trying, he is doing everything I ask of him....except??????

What? be more genuine sounding, be less guarded, be more open.

I wouldn't mind if he was a HARD kind of man, but he is quite emotional, and very very loving....I find it very hard to reconcile the two people rolled into one that i have before me.

Jeez, i've ranted so much on your post!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Good post, a lot of couples lose sight of eachother, also I am so guilty of putting my kids first. I will teach my children to not do that and to put their spouse first. That's where I really went wrong. I got married at 20 and had my first at 22. She's 19 now! Time flies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Yes I did take my eye off of you but that does not excuse how I acted, I should have come to you and demanded you listen, I should have changed and I should have supported you, I know I let you down with support back then but will never let you down again, I know what/where I went wrong and I promise you on my grave I will never let you down in anyway again, I know where you are coming from with the guarded answers, they're not guarded but you know how crap I am with words.... I love you dearly and thank you for agreeing to be my wife all those years ago, I haven't shown you the appreciation you deserve but I will xx


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

CantSitStill said:


> Good post, a lot of couples lose sight of eachother, also I am so guilty of putting my kids first. I will teach my children to not do that and to put their spouse first. That's where I really went wrong. I got married at 20 and had my first at 22. She's 19 now! Time flies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly......:iagree: but we get so used to putting the kids first. I'm not making excuses but when H is talking to me and my son walks in the room and say 'mum.........blah blah blah' i did switch off from H....because i've been a mum so long. It's kind of ingrained to listen to what his needs are. I had my first son aged 17.

I hold my hands up...my son was 20, he wasn't a baby who needed his mammy...but my H should have pointed this out to me at the time as I didn't realise i was doing this. When he did point it out, I could see he was right...albeit a little too late.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

megmg said:


> Yes I did take my eye off of you but that does not excuse how I acted, I should have come to you and demanded you listen, I should have changed and I should have supported you, I know I let you down with support back then but will never let you down again, I know what/where I went wrong and I promise you on my grave I will never let you down in anyway again, I know where you are coming from with the guarded answers, they're not guarded but you know how crap I am with words.... I love you dearly and thank you for agreeing to be my wife all those years ago, I haven't shown you the appreciation you deserve but I will xx


We both took our eyes off each other....that is natural surely when we have 4 children who demand attention almost all of the time, or so it feel like because there are 4 of them! (but my eyes never went to another man)

Yes, you maybe should have drummed it home to me...Yes I can re-call you saying 'things need to change' I know I didn't listen hard enough to you, but I just think I was so F'ing tired. 

You seriously could have done more....in my memory i can see me doing everything and you doing nothing at home....and me nagging and you just going off to work and leaving me to sort out the kids and their lunches etc...(all sounds so petty doesn't it?)

I think we both know, NOW, where we went wrong....so that is a step forward.

And things are different, two eldest have moved out and on with their own lives...we have so much more time and energy for one another. We really get on well and share the same interests....

It's just such a shame you couldn't wait for NOW.......for OUR time! I do remember telling you it would come.

I know we can't change this now, what has happened has happened.....but i am still in shock that my 'raft' the one person in my life that made me feel safe and secure pulled the plug on us.

We both know, that I am not the kind of woman to tolerate cheating. You have known this from the get go. When you made those 'easy' bad choices to do the wrong thing, you knew in your heart that if I found out we would be over.....you took that chance....you played Russian roulette with your marriage. You in effect gambled me away.

You have a big fight on your hands to win me back!


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

I will fight and die for you, whether you want me to or not , I am not giving up on you ,

My life is full of I should haves well not anymore it will be 'I did' not ' I should' 

I have changed a lot of things in the last 2 years most of them things that I have just let ride, well if I don't want to anything from now then I won't be.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

megmg said:


> I will fight and die for you, whether you want me to or not , I am not giving up on you ,
> 
> My life is full of I should haves well not anymore it will be 'I did' not ' I should'
> 
> *I have changed a lot of things in the last 2 years most of them things that I have just let ride, well if I don't want to anything from now then I won't be.*


*
*

Repeat..think typo's.....can not understand what you are trying to say.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Meg and LRgirl,
You both sound kinda like me and CSS.
LR is is hurt bad,as I was.Infidelity really does a number to the BS's head,I can't describe the pain.Sometimes it just seems to much to get over.
Meg is showing that he knows how bad he screwed things up,him willing to come to Tams and post is a positive sign that he will try and right this wrong.
A WS can't really fix a mess like this,it the WS giving all they have that will make things better.
CSS can't fix it but her showing me she is doing everything in her power to help me heal makes a huge difference too me.
I need genuine remorse,transparenty,her to hold herself accountable and to be there for me when ever I am triggering or down.
The BS needs to have patience and give the WS a fair shot to prove them selves.
If you both truely want to R and have a new better marriage then be prepared to be in this for the long haul.
Its not for the weak.
So far from what I can tell meg seems like he's real about this,some people deserve that one shot and one shot only.
LRgirl,I know how hard this is and how it hurts,its torture to be betrayed like this,I still don't get it,I really think my wife had temporay insanity,it just wasn't in her character to do what she did.
There is a thread on here called reconciliation that might help you both.
There are quite a few couples there in various stages of R,check it out.
CSS and I are hopeing for the best for you both.
Hang in there LR,it gets better.
15 months out for me and its still hard but slowly headed in the right direction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

megmg said:


> I will fight and die for you, whether you want me to or not , I am not giving up on you


Talk is cheap.

Why didn't you "fight and die for" your marriage instead of cheating?

Didn't you already give up on her when you cheated?


I know I sound harsh, but it's not my place to judge or to tell the two of you what you should do or how you should move forward - and nor do I mean to. I do not say this to be judgmental - my point is slightly different. If you want her back, you want to regain her trust, then SHOW her, don't just TELL her with easy words. Frankly, as one who as told so many lies, your words mean nothing at all.

Show her that you are willing to risk your heart for her. Show her that you will love her and love her and love her - even if she can never get to the point where she can overcome what you did and love you back. Show her that you are willing to put your heart on the line, to love her unwaveringly for as long as it takes, and risk the ultimate heartbreak if your love goes unrequited. Show her that your love is patient, and that you will wait for as long as it takes - without any pressure. If you are not willing to do that, then you do not love her or deserve her and you should be honest and tell her that.


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## StarGazer101 (Jan 26, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Talk is cheap.
> 
> Why didn't you "fight and die for" your marriage instead of cheating?
> 
> ...


I wish I could "like" this a hundred times!


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Talk is cheap.
> 
> Why didn't you "fight and die for" your marriage instead of cheating?
> 
> ...


:iagree: How could he love me and treat me so badly?

Did he forget he loved me......he did say that once when I asked 'how could you?' he said 'I forgot that I loved you' OMG!

But I don't know what is truth because as soon as I react to something he says like that he takes it back and says 'i didn't exactly mean it like that' or 'you twist my words' or 'I'm crap at talking'

I just feel crap full stop!


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Yes a few typos but Basically I'm saying that historically i have done things as that's how I am expected to behave or because I have just gone along with to stop confrontation. Well no more ! Acting like that did not do me any good whatsoever


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

megmg said:


> Yes a few typos but Basically I'm saying that historically i have done things as that's how I am expected to behave or because I have just gone along with to stop confrontation. Well no more ! Acting like that did not do me any good whatsoever


Who expected you to behave that way?

Gone along with what to stop confrontation?

You aren't saying nearly enough!


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

LRgirl said:


> I want you to know..........
> 
> I hate feeling resentment every day,
> 
> ...


Megmg this is for you to read again...very carefully and slowly, in fact you could print it out and keep it in your wallet.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Gemjo ..... 

I must have read this a 1000 times since you posted it and will never forget it...

I hate that you hate me
I hate what I have done to you 
I hate all the hate

I hate that this does not need to be printed because its burned into my mind


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

megmg said:


> Yes a few typos but Basically I'm saying that historically i have done things as that's how I am expected to behave or because I have just gone along with to stop confrontation. Well no more ! Acting like that did not do me any good whatsoever


I can relate to this. H would ask me ' Are you upset about x?' and I wouldn't acknowledge it bothered me when I was furious. What had happened put us out of our home, cost us $65k and alienated part of our family. It meant not even celebrating Christmas one year and fighting against bankruptcy for the past few years. 

It was the beginning of shutting down communication which just led to a total breakdown. We stopped talking about anything and everything. It wasn't a single big event, it was lot of smaller ones where I had the opportunity to change things and I didn't. 

I ended up started to really resent him. Add to that a number of other issues we were facing (kids leaving for college) and health issues and it was a powder keg. 

We spoke about this after - he recognized it was bad but thought it was a phase and would fix itself.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> I can relate to this. H would ask me ' Are you upset about x?' and I wouldn't acknowledge it bothered me when I was furious. What had happened put us out of our home, cost us $65k and alienated part of our family. It meant not even celebrating Christmas one year and fighting against bankruptcy for the past few years.
> 
> It was the beginning of shutting down communication which just led to a total breakdown. We stopped talking about anything and everything. It wasn't a single big event, it was lot of smaller ones where I had the opportunity to change things and I didn't.
> 
> I ended up started to really resent him. Add to that a number of other issues we were facing (kids leaving for college) and health issues and it was a powder keg.


****We spoke about this after - *he recognized it was bad but thought it was a phase and would fix itself.******

I guess your H is like myself in this respect....I thought it was a phase but it would fix itself.....however, I never thought my marriage needed fixing......just a bad time as in kids, work, finances.

Never thought my H would go find release some place else. 

It scares me so bad Red that my h might find troubled times in the future and he will do the very same thing again?

How can you be sure it wont happen again if times get hard?

I appreciate your vantage point


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

No one probably expected me to behave in anyway it's a product of paranoia and expectations we uptown ourselves on how we should behave,

Confrontation we have had this discussion Lots of times and there are lots of ways I have just gone along... To keep the peace.... 

I really used to hate the comment you used to Make when we were in debt and opening another credit card ..... 'Everybody does it', 'everybody lives like this' but I still went along with. This is not blame apportion as i spent just as much as you I hate the way we justified it


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> ****We spoke about this after - *he recognized it was bad but thought it was a phase and would fix itself.******
> 
> I guess your H is like myself in this respect....I thought it was a phase but it would fix itself.....however, I never thought my marriage needed fixing......just a bad time as in kids, work, finances.
> 
> ...


We've made sure that we sit down and TALK about our marriage, feelings, issues on a regular basis. No hiding or holding back. Sometimes that is hard to do or hear but we feel better afterwards. (Emotional intimacy).

Sexual intimacy is a MUST. No being 'too tired' or 'too busy' - we make this an important piece of our routine at LEAST weekly (normally more).

We both read 5 Love Languages and it was like a hard slap to reality. My LL is physical touch, so having him stop touching me was like being abandoned. His is quality time so same for him when I stopped making time to spend with him. Neither of us felt loved or important in each other's lives. 

For H - he's finally in a place where he feels secure that I will never jeopardize our relationship again. He's forgiven me for something I never thought he would be able to forgive. The gift of that forgiveness is something I cannot begin to describe in value.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

megmg said:


> No one probably expected me to behave in anyway it's a product of paranoia and expectations we uptown ourselves on how we should behave,
> 
> Confrontation we have had this discussion Lots of times and there are lots of ways I have just gone along... To keep the peace....
> 
> I really used to hate the comment you used to Make when we were in debt and opening another credit card ..... 'Everybody does it', 'everybody lives like this' but I still went along with. This is not blame apportion as i spent just as much as you I hate the way we justified it


And now you now to speak the truth, right? Speak it kindly and gently but honestly and clearly.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> And now you now to speak the truth, right? Speak it kindly and gently but honestly and clearly.


I try , sometimes I did myself shouting the truth, I know this is frustration on my part as its not believed , I know why it's not believed but its like speaking in another country.... I can't speak Italian but when in there you find yourself speaking slower and louder....... If that makes sense?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

It is hard to learn it as a new habit but so critical. You will get there - but diligent. Ask LR on a regular basis how things are going from your perspective, what else does she need/want, etc.

In turn, offer your thoughts/perspective. It has to be constant communication. 

What I found helpful was talking about the things we loved about each other, what it was like when we first met, some of our favorite moments together.


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> It is hard to learn it as a new habit but so critical. You will get there - but diligent. Ask LR on a regular basis how things are going from your perspective, what else does she need/want, etc.
> 
> In turn, offer your thoughts/perspective. It has to be constant communication.
> 
> What I found helpful was talking about the things we loved about each other, what it was like when we first met, some of our favorite moments together.


The problem is Red, he's so guarded in his answers....it makes them unbelievable.....he thinks too much about answers.....which makes them unbelievable .......he answers with yes and no, which isn't very forth coming.

He's vague to say the least. 

If it were me, and maybe because I'm a woman......I would have said it all, the whole sorry mess out in one go.....in as much detail as he could stomach because in my eyes, when you you have the whole truth you can look at it head on...*with the lights on*.....hard in the short term, but so much better than imaginings ....in the dark corners of your mind....

I get so little when i ask for anything that it's not worth asking anything anymore.........I get frustration, impatience, and one word answers.

It isn't enough is it?

That's why My H is on the tight rope to 'marriage over' because he wont do the necessary.........because he can not work out what the necessary is. It's like he wants to...but he just will not. I'm getting sick and tired of telling him what he should be doing and what I need.

Its so sad.....I'm so worth the fight, but you wouldn't think it!

I'm almost done.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

megmg - Hear what she's asking. It's excruciating and painful for you BOTH but it has to be done. You can't heal the wound if you don't clean it out thoroughly. 

If LR becomes defensive, angry or emotional - keep going. The infection has to be removed. 

This was the hardest part. It took the better part of two months of talking for these things to finally be out in the open. It's a relief to have done so and feel free from the secrets and shame hanging over my head.

I'm still ashamed but to know that he's heard it, knows it and loves me and is still in our marriage for the long run - I'm in awe of his heart. 

LR has a big heart, she's waiting to listen so she can work through this with you. Sit her down, talk this out and do it. This will show her you love her and are sincere.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Megmg, I was the same way, avoided conflict and it caused resentment. Now even when it's hard, I will not drop an issue that needs talked about. My answers to him are honest even if they hurt. Get a card or piece of paper and write her a love letter, or an apology letter. She needs to know what's going on in that mind of yours. Never just throw your arms up and say "forget it". That will never make things better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Tcs , CSS thanks for the advice it is appreciated ..... Currently sleeping on couch with promises of D ringing through my head.
So want to be able to give lrgirl the life she so deserves just think that I've done too much damage to her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Heard this song today for first time...pretty much sums it all up ... Lrgirl heard it on radio first

YouTube
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Do more meg,assure her,over and over if she needs it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

megmg said:


> Tcs , CSS thanks for the advice it is appreciated ..... Currently sleeping on couch with promises of D ringing through my head.
> So want to be able to give lrgirl the life she so deserves just think that I've done too much damage to her
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't give up!


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> The problem is Red, he's so guarded in his answers....it makes them unbelievable.....he thinks too much about answers.....which makes them unbelievable .......he answers with yes and no, which isn't very forth coming.
> 
> He's vague to say the least.
> 
> ...


I am sorry, but that is not how it works. Even the most remorseful WS on this board have failed at this lofty endeavor (hands up those who did manage total transparency first time out.)

You've got to cut him some slack on this issue. Not too much slack, but some...


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

cpacan posted on the Reconciliation thread recently, and his threads were linked in his signature so I glanced through them. I found this golden nugget written by Pit-of-my-stomach in reply to a post by cpacan back in Feb of 2012. Pit called it "random thoughts" - I call it enlightening. It was an aha moment for me; I'm at 3 and a half months past D-Day. Empathy goes both ways.

cpacan read a book suggesting the wayward tell the affair story through the eyes of the betrayed, but every time his wife tried, she just couldn't get out how it must have made HIM feel. One poster suggested maybe she had a narcissistic personality because she can't empathize. Pit saw it differently:

Thread title: Can a person be sincere and not being able to feel and show empathy? 

______________________________

Pit's reply: I dont know her, or much about your whole story but generally speaking if you haven't seen any other indications of a narcistic personality type it could be that she is consumed by guilt and shame. She might be unable to deal with it brunt of the pain she has caused. 

This could cause her to block out feelings of empathy, to supress recognition of her actions and the emotional impact (shame/guilt?) of them. Its a form denial. A defense mechinism. 

If that were the case, It doesn't mean that your not on the path of reconciliation. It may just mean that she needs to cope with her own actions at a pace that she can cope with emotionally. 

I'm not a psychologist, but I would suspect that recognizing recovery will be a long process and will require some patience is important. Perhaps consider avoiding aggresively "forcing" her to recognize the impact of her actions all at once. "forcing her" to deal with things she may be unable to cope with could cause her to shut down and be very defensive. 

While you shouldn't rug sweep, or allow her to minimize her actions maybe just keeping them on the table and in front of her and allowing her to process her shame and guilt at her pace would prove valuable for your longterm reconciliation? 

She is just a person, and I suspect she is also in a lot of pain. You love her and you shouldn't lose sight of how difficult this is for her as well. That is of course if your long term goal is recovery of a healthy marriage. 

Just random thoughts.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> I am sorry, but that is not how it works. Even the most remorseful WS on this board have failed at this lofty endeavor (hands up those who did manage total transparency first time out.)
> 
> You've got to cut him some slack on this issue. Not too much slack, but some...


My wife gave me total transparency from day one. It helped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Me to ,from day one and still . Would rather him see all I do than have him worry. I have no reason not to be transparent because I know it'll never happen again and I don't have any desire to be with anyone but my awesome husband
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I failed miserably at transparency. After D-Day 2, it took me 5 days to finally just sit down with my husband and lay it all out. My defenses just wouldn't let me believe that it couldn't get worse, that truth would actually help. It wasn't until Matt asked me to leave that I felt there was nothing left for me to protect, nothing remaining to try to hold on to, so I could finally just confess. I never wanted my affair to end my marriage. But it had to reach that point for me to stop lying. And that has been worse for Matt than many of the actual affair details. Aside from wishing I'd never cheated, wishing I'd had the balls to just be open from the start is my biggest regret.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I will also say that if I'd actually been honest from D-Day 1 I think I would have been much less likely to have a D-Day 2. But holding onto secrets fostered the addiction and emotions that I was dealing with because I hadn't told the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

Mrs_Mathias said:


> I failed miserably at transparency. After D-Day 2, it took me 5 days to finally just sit down with my husband and lay it all out. My defenses just wouldn't let me believe that it couldn't get worse, that truth would actually help. It wasn't until Matt asked me to leave that I felt there was nothing left for me to protect, nothing remaining to try to hold on to, so I could finally just confess. I never wanted my affair to end my marriage. But it had to reach that point for me to stop lying. And that has been worse for Matt than many of the actual affair details. Aside from wishing I'd never cheated, wishing I'd had the balls to just be open from the start is my biggest regret.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It must be one of the hardest things in the world a WS has to go through........to see the pain and devastation, to open yourself up like that....to have to tell your spouse who, what where, when? But you did, and that is what matters, and that is why you are in a good and true R.

DD's have been very hard for me......having DD1 in Sept 2011 and being lied to for a whole year, DD2 was Sept 2012.

He thought he could protect me/himself from another two incidents with colleagues on nights away from home. He told me the rest because I warned him I'd booked a poly for the following week.

It was awful, a terrible shock and not to mention the biggest set back.......I made him pack a bag and leave. He cried, pleaded and begged....he phoned MC there and then and went directly to his emergency appointment from the hotel he'd stayed in the following morning...

One of the hardest things was my H had changed so much after DD1, he was / is like a new man in every way....we were so connected again, so together, we'd talked each and every night about what had happened and how we could proof our marriage against anything ever happening again. 

We stuck together like glue, sharing hobbies and finding time for one another....not to mention the Hist.Bonking...  He stopped smoking weed, started to really man up around the house and gave me full access (which I already had to be fair) to all media devices. 

BUT he'd lied to me for a year...knowing I had doubts and niggles....but he continued to lie  it is so destroying....so damaging. Breaks a heart and a soul 

It crucified me, and is the main problem I am left with today, I have mostly accepted what he did, and how it came about....but lying to me for a whole year, me trying to believe he was being honest and that my instinct was wrong....I asked him over and over if i had it all so we could start a fresh.

We are good right now.....and are most of the time, but every few weeks I get really dark....guess this is normal to some extent? or if i have too much time on my own to think ....we are getting there slowly, slowly catchy monkey 

We have talked a lot this week and it has made a lot of difference...my H seems to be letting his guard down and answering me openly and honestly....I think his guilt makes him defensive, think he's frustrated when I wont believe him...but he seems to be doing the right things to convince me right now. He understands why I struggle to believe him.

He is frequently here at TAM if not posting, he is reading each and every night, so that's good....

Thanks every one for all your support so far x


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## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

EI said:


> *A letter for my Betrayed*
> 
> I want you to know..........
> 
> ...



I still like to read this some days.

It helps me out.

In particular "I struggle daily to walk a fine line of trying to heal myself and move forward, honestly believing that the best way that I can help you heal is to try to heal myself, as well. I believe that if I choose to wallow in my own misery and self-pity that all I have to offer you is a defeated and broken down version of myself..... not very much to inspire you to want to work with me towards building a happier, healthier future for the two of us. But, what helps you one day, may cause you pain the next....... I hate that for you..... I hate it for me, too.

I hate seeing the pain in your eyes as a certain song plays on the radio, or we pass a certain restaurant, or a specific date on the calendar is approaching. I hate wondering if I should speak first about the "elephant" in the room or if I should wait and take your lead. I promise you, I have not forgotten how I hurt you, our children and our extended family..... nor will I ever be free of this self-imposed burden that I carry. I feel a tremendous desire, and obligation, to build a new life, a happy life, a healthy life for all of us. I don't know how to move towards that future if I am always dwelling on the past."

My husband tries to explain this to me in his own 'few' words, and I struggle, believing he's somehow 'forgotten' the pain I still feel daily.

So reading this really does help. x


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