# Marriage Philosophy...



## EasyLiving23 (Oct 12, 2008)

Maybe I am just a little disenchanted by the whole marriage thing, but I am currently in my second marriage and I am watching it go the way of the first, which is directly down the tubes. 

Even when I was young, I always had this idea of what marriage was and maybe that is the problem. Maybe my expectations are just too high and I should just be happy to co-exist with my spouse in the same house for the rest of my life? That is what my friends are doing and most of them are sleeping around. So, what is my idea of the perfect marriage?

I think marriage is a partnership of two people that love each other and are:

1.  Soulmates.
2. Attracted to each other.
3. Look forward to seeing each other.
4. Have the utmost respect for each other and show it to each other.
5. Compliment and support each other in every facet of their lives.
6. Provide companionship for each other.
7. Are willing to to do anything with their mate, regardless of whether it is something that they want to do or may not like doing it, but want to do it because it is with their spouse.
8. Take care of each other.
9. Strive for equality. Everything is 50/50. Cooking, cleaning, working, taking care of the kids, etc.
10. Have the same basic principles and beliefs.
11. Wouldn't say a bad thing about or to each other .

This partnership can collectively achieve anything in life because they are always pulling in the same direction.

Is it possible to be "in love" with someone for the rest of your life? I think that is what I am looking for and I have told this to several of my friends and they laugh and say that takes too much energy. I think that I am just a hopeless romantic.

I am really disenchanted with the whole dating scene as well and the possibility of finding the right person. I believe that they exist for everyone, but what is the chance that you are going to find them in a bar, at the grocery or at your church? Not only do you have to find the right person but they have to also be single and have to be attracted to YOU. I think that most marriages are the result of two people that are attracted to each other, often have very little in common and decide that they can change the other or tolerate the little quirks that drive the other one batty.

I am not much of a loner, so the whole idea of going through another divorce doesn't excite me and if it just leads to a thrid miserable marriage, why not just stay where I am? Food for thought, I am open to suggestions and thoughts.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Marriage to me was learning what to do to make it right, not hope it fell into place.

draconis


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I guess I never grew up with the notion of "soul mates" or that anyone was "the one." I grew up watching my parents relationship fail, listening to the travails of my sister's marriages, and hearing people say it was 'work.' 

I also grew up knowing marriage was about family, and not the fleeting high of 'being in love.' I made a promise. Not just to my spouse, myself, or God, but to any children I might have. I made a promise to my family. That's why I work and strive to have a good marriage.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

What is going on with your marriage that makes you say it's going down the tubes? I like your list...my own would have been similar. I think in many cases trying to force things to be the way one spouse wants ends up in arguing, nagging, feeling lonely, unloved, both building resentment and doesn't give the wanted results in the end.

What would your husband do if you were in a relaxed environment (taking a long walk or sitting by a lake/beach etc.) and just talked to him about your dreams of marriage and asked him what he thought? 50/50 housework sounds more like a demand and might put him on the defensive (ie you are complaining it's not that way now) but coming up with positive examples of what you love about being married to him (when you came outside and helped me pull weeds I felt really loved and supported and that's what makes me feel really good within our marriage)

Is your marriage at a point where you can work toward getting what you want within it?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

While would all like to have that “in love” feeling all of our lives, most will say that feeling will only last for 18- 24 months. After that that first passion fades but the love remains. To stay in a loving relationship requires work and communication. Let us know what is failing in your marriage and why you feel you are at a crossroads in it.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

complacency erodes alot of marriages, including mine. having children that are heavily involved in sports and other activities contributes to that lack of time and eventual lack of effort and desire.(not blaming the kids at all, not remotely their fault). it's easy to grow apart, it's hard wotk to grow together.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Great thread title 

I let my marriage drift for the first 10 years. We had some good times, and we were a team, but we did not really put a regular penny in the love bank.*

Now we are committed to taking care of each other, things are starting to be more fun. I love to go with the flow, but I think marriage works best when each partner constantly asks themselves - how can I make it even better? It's not hard work, it's just a background commitment to keeping things fresh and alive. Occasionally such introspection can mean a complete reversal of direction, and saying sorry for doing something wrong.

When I was a bit younger, I was more idealistic. I used to think marriages should be saved at all costs. I don't believe that now. What I feel is that all marriages _could _be saved, but that quite often there will not be the commitment on both sides to do so. When there is only a small misalignment, it is perfectly possible that just one partner can buy some self help books and take up the slack all by him/herself. However, if the gap is wide, this won't work. In those cases, the self-helper will realize it's time to move on to someone who cares. Of course this often creates a mess...

----------------------------------------------------
*having said that, _someone _must have been putting pennies in there on the sly, because we made it


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## GAsoccerman (Mar 24, 2008)

I always saw marriage as teamwork, and it is constantly changing and evolving, it never stays the same.

They say your body changes every 7 years on average, I think our relationships change as well.

I always believed in rolling with it and adapting as it changed.

it needs constant attention like a garden.


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## line6guy (Sep 21, 2008)

I don't think you are bizarre in your thinking. In fact, I believe you hit the nail right on the head. I'm very much a "traditionalist." Not that a woman stays at home while the man brings home the bacon. But, rather, marriage is a partnership. I cook, clean, do laundry, care for the kids... all that stuff. It is only right, especially when both share in working outside the home.

I think that it takes both parties, thought, to feel that way. Both have to feel, in some way, like you do. Hey, we are all different. I don't think you can expect someone to feel exactly like you. But, if both people have mutual respect for the other, and the marriage, there would not be an end to a marriage as we see so much of. I mean, why did both people get married in the first place, right?

It will not be peaches and cream all the time. Can't rightly expect that. But, where one is down, the other, out of love, will pick the other up. And that goes both ways.

Question is... when we find someone, do we settle too quickly?


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## Greatermindset (Oct 13, 2008)

EasyLiving23, it's definitely possible to still be in a ongoing and sustainable passionate and intimate relationship.

Looking at your blue print, In some cases (not always) you may have some difficulties at #9 and #11. The others are fine and are definitly acheivable. #9 you may not be able to do everything 50/50 as a certain member may have strengths where the other may not have, but the partner may be able to provide support as a team member. Together they can acheive a lot more than they would on an individual basis.

There are ways of dealing with #11, like maybe not say a bad thing about each other while in public while in front of other people, but if they love each other enough, they need to be honest enough to tell each other the truth about something. The difference in couples who live in a blissful relationship is, 1st it always comes from a place of love, and 2nd it may be deleivered in a playful way.

I've heard of some couples well past in their 80s who are still passionate and intimate with each other. This one particular couple who were in their 80s, went to a relationship seminar and during that time they couldn't keep their hands to each other. The presenter at that time, obviously knew they had a passionate and intimate relationship and asked them what was their secret in keeping their passion alive.They giggled and said they like to try new things, touching each other in different ways.

Touch can be a fantastic stimulous if you know how to trigger your partner into a intimate state. For the couple mentioned earlier, they were able to try out so many different ways, they could litterally trigger each other off and get in the mood. They knew what did it for each other, the tone to use, they way they move, the place to touch, the pressure to apply, the type of stroke to apply, the direction a voice may come from, the distance the voice is coming from, the volume of the voice, the way the hair is stroked, etc.

It's like opening a lock in a sense. If you know what the combination and sequence is, the lock will open everytime. But a lot of people don't know what the combination or the sequence is to open up their partner. I encourage couples to take the time to explorer and have fun with it. Some people are auditory, others are kinestic, and others are visual. Find out what triggers your partner. This is one way to keep the passion in your relationship. There's obviously more, but hopefully this has give you some insight on what is possible and a strategy on helping your relationship move in that direction.


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## snix11 (Sep 25, 2008)

Marriage is putting up with the guy you accidentally let move in with you who no longer loves you and treats you like furniture.

Oh wait, you didn't say REALITY, you said philosophy. my bad. heh.

ok ok. seriousness. *puts on serious face, hat, and toe socks*

Marriage - 

1: *PROTECTION*. Protect your spouse from yourself. Be Responsible for Your Mood – Often, when we’re in a bad mood, or we’re worried about something, it is easy to dump all of our frustration and anger on our spouse. It takes some presence of mind and discipline to handle these situations well, but it is well worth the effort.

When you find yourself in a foul mood, simply say to your spouse, “I’m in a bad mood. This has nothing to do with you, and I will try not to direct it at you. Don't worry, I love you and I should be over this by tonight. If for some reason I'm not, I'll do my best to take it out on you in bed.” This allows your spouse to go on about his or her day without feeling either 1) obligated to make you feel better—which never works anyway, or 2) guilty for causing your bad mood—which is usually not their fault.

2: *MEET THEIR EMOTIONAL NEEDS*. Love em the way they want to be loved – Most of us try to help out our spouses in the exact wrong way. Find out what makes them happiest and do it the way THEY want. It pays off in BIG dividends. 

3: *TIME*. Spend it together. Connect. Snuggle. Talk. Play. Laugh. Tickle. Have sex. lots. N more sex. (full moon, excuse me) Date. 15 hours a week MINIMUM of Uninterrupted Attention to each other. No kids, no shop talk, no TV. Spend it with and on each other. You did that while you were dating and fell in love. Makes perfect sense that to STAY in love you gotta keep doing it.

4: *SEX*. I don't care what anybody says. Do it right, do it often. Make sure you are both FULFILLED. Do not give up on it, don't let it rust or get dusty. If it does, woo it back. Otherwise we might as well be married to the neighbors. Polite roommates eventually makes for a resentful marriage.

Yes, I'm a hopeless romantic. But I believe. :smthumbup:


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## EasyLiving23 (Oct 12, 2008)

Wow, I really let you guys down on this one. I leave a lengthy post and then don't get back with you after you leave a lot of great input. Things have been very bad here and have escalated to the point where I have asked for a divorce. I'll reply to your comments below and I apologize for the huge multi-quote.




GAsoccerman said:


> I always saw marriage as teamwork, and it is constantly changing and evolving, it never stays the same.
> 
> They say your body changes every 7 years on average, I think our relationships change as well.
> 
> ...


No question about it. That is one of my biggest issues with the current marriage as there is no maintenance being performed by my spouse. A successful marriage requires a lot of work by both parties 



line6guy said:


> I don't think you are bizarre in your thinking. In fact, I believe you hit the nail right on the head. I'm very much a "traditionalist." Not that a woman stays at home while the man brings home the bacon. But, rather, marriage is a partnership. I cook, clean, do laundry, care for the kids... all that stuff. It is only right, especially when both share in working outside the home.
> 
> I think that it takes both parties, thought, to feel that way. Both have to feel, in some way, like you do. Hey, we are all different. I don't think you can expect someone to feel exactly like you. But, if both people have mutual respect for the other, and the marriage, there would not be an end to a marriage as we see so much of. I mean, why did both people get married in the first place, right?
> 
> ...


WOW! Complete validation of my thoughts and I don't feel so unusual any more, line6guy. This is exactly what I am thinking and it really amazes me that most people don't feel this way. I do think that people settle too quickly and it is too difficult find that perfect match. I wonder if the dating services are the right approach for that reason? I really don't know because I have no experience with that, but there must be some madness to their algorithm for setting people up together? My guess is that there must be some common interests or something? 



Greatermindset said:


> EasyLiving23, it's definitely possible to still be in a ongoing and sustainable passionate and intimate relationship.
> 
> Looking at your blue print, In some cases (not always) you may have some difficulties at #9 and #11. The others are fine and are definitly acheivable. #9 you may not be able to do everything 50/50 as a certain member may have strengths where the other may not have, but the partner may be able to provide support as a team member. Together they can acheive a lot more than they would on an individual basis.
> 
> ...


Lots of great stuff there, Greatermindset. I think that you bring up a lot of good points and especially the idea of knowing what your spouse likes and makes them tick. This is a problem with my current marriage because I have taken the time to get to know my spouse and I do the things that I know that she likes, but she hasn't reciprocated.



snix11 said:


> Marriage is putting up with the guy you accidentally let move in with you who no longer loves you and treats you like furniture.
> 
> Oh wait, you didn't say REALITY, you said philosophy. my bad. heh.
> 
> ...


:iagree: WOW! This is my bible for a happy marriage. Thanks snix11 Maybe we ought to start a support group for hopeless romantics? :scratchhead:


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## EasyLiving23 (Oct 12, 2008)

swedish said:


> What is going on with your marriage that makes you say it's going down the tubes? I like your list...my own would have been similar. I think in many cases trying to force things to be the way one spouse wants ends up in arguing, nagging, feeling lonely, unloved, both building resentment and doesn't give the wanted results in the end.
> 
> What would your husband do if you were in a relaxed environment (taking a long walk or sitting by a lake/beach etc.) and just talked to him about your dreams of marriage and asked him what he thought? 50/50 housework sounds more like a demand and might put him on the defensive (ie you are complaining it's not that way now) but coming up with positive examples of what you love about being married to him (when you came outside and helped me pull weeds I felt really loved and supported and that's what makes me feel really good within our marriage)
> 
> Is your marriage at a point where you can work toward getting what you want within it?


I didn't intentionally trap you swedish, but I did write the post to be non-gender specific. I have been told that I think like a woman, but actually I am a man and I am very masculine. Yes, I have some non-typical thoughts for a male and can understand why you ould think that I was a female writing this message. 

I guess that my current marriage is almost none of what I mentioned in my philosophy, which seems ironic that I got to this point. She does the laundry. I do the bulk of the cleaning, almost all of the cooking, grocery shopping, financials, handy work, lawn and vehicle maintenance, dishes, etc. Our 11 year old (my step) daughter helps quite a bit as well. We both work and I make 80% of the income, but that doesn't matter.




Amplexor said:


> While would all like to have that “in love” feeling all of our lives, most will say that feeling will only last for 18- 24 months. After that that first passion fades but the love remains. To stay in a loving relationship requires work and communication. Let us know what is failing in your marriage and why you feel you are at a crossroads in it.


I think that communication is a huge part of a successful marriage. I stopped communicating and I told her that I would because my issues weren't getting addressed and everything turned into an argument and didn't get resolved. At that point I asked her to go to counseling with me and she refused.



okeydokie said:


> complacency erodes alot of marriages, including mine. having children that are heavily involved in sports and other activities contributes to that lack of time and eventual lack of effort and desire.(not blaming the kids at all, not remotely their fault). it's easy to grow apart, it's hard wotk to grow together.


Agree, marriages take constant time and attention and there are many distractions in life. You have to include your spouse at the top of the priorities, though.



MarkTwain said:


> Great thread title
> 
> I let my marriage drift for the first 10 years. We had some good times, and we were a team, but we did not really put a regular penny in the love bank.*
> 
> ...


That is awesome, MarkTwain. We are at the point where my wife now wants to go to counseling and she is ready to fix our problems, and after two years of asking her to go to counseling, I am pretty much done at this point. My issues were not getting addressed, so I had to bag them in and I moved from caring, to bitterness to ultimately apathy. I am having a tough time about getting excited for counseling at this point and I told her that I would let her know soon if I could earnestly go through with it. Thanks again for the input, folks.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

EasyLiving23 said:


> the whole idea of going through another divorce doesn't excite me and if it just leads to a thrid miserable marriage, why not just stay where I am?


My apologies...I related completely to this in your post and wrongly assumed you were female, because I am 

Your wife wanting to try counseling could be the turning point for you both and quite honestly give you everything you feel has been missing. The bottom line is that if you are both committed to one another and focused on each other's happiness rather than what you are missing, everything really does fall into place. You become more tolerant of small annoyances, more empathetic to each other's moods, it feels completely different. The ball is in your court to give this a shot and why not? It was absolutely the best decision I have made to date...we did not go to marriage counseling but we both decided we wanted our marriage to work and it is unbelievable how happy we are now when I look back to where we were just a year ago.

Good resources in my opinion...The 5 Love Languages, the movie Fireproof...others I liked were for women so I won't go there again  

Bottom line is to replace your resentment with empathy...she has probably struggled internally with her own feelings and disappointments adding to the distance between you. By wanting to work on your marriage, she is reaching out and willing to now step up. If you give your marriage a shot when she is in this mindset, you will know one way or the other whether you can turn this around.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

EasyLiving23 said:


> That is awesome, MarkTwain. We are at the point where my wife now wants to go to counseling and she is ready to fix our problems, and after two years of asking her to go to counseling, I am pretty much done at this point.


Hold on there Mr. 

As well as echoing what Swedish has said, I would like to point out that you are falling into a common syndrome. The syndrome goes like this:

Man: I want us to go to counseling.
Woman: I can't be bothered.
.
.
Woman: Let's go to counseling
Man: I'm done

Rinse and repeat.

If you read all the threads here, you will see this happens a lot but with different topics as the vehicle. Quite often it's sex. Usually the man always wants it and the woman rejects him. Then she suddenly feels more into it, but he's fed up with her by then, and on it goes.

If you take a step back, what's actually happening is sabotage. A really good way to sabotage things is to want the same things, but out of sync.

I feel you don't actually need counseling, you just need a commitment to work on your marriage together - at the same time. Ironically, one way to show that commitment is to agree to go to counseling together! 

What did the trick for me, was to read Dr. Tracy's link below five years ago. I realized we were not speaking each other's language.

"Ask Dr. Tracy" Love Library

Her whole site is good, however.


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