# Are we entitled to be happy in a relationship?



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Have read it here a few times in the last week that people are not entitled to happiness in a relationship, we have to take care of that ourselves.

WDYT?

Personally I totally disagree with the above sentiment. To me happiness is a right that all humans have but sadly many never get it. It ranks up in my top 5 of life's must have qualities, yes it is my right to be happy in a relationship and my right to end a relationship if happiness is not going to be achieved.

Along with that, IMHO it is also an obligation, we have a responsibility to create an environment that helps our spouse be happy.

It reminds me of the old saying "no one can make you unhappy, that is a choice you make" which I also disagree with. My ex said this to me after we split, to me what it really means is "I can do or say whatever I want, I can with hold sex and intimacy etc and you can choose to either be happy with this life or unhappy."
It takes away all responsibility from the with holder.

I am passionate about creating a happy environment in my relationship, it makes me happy when he is happy. It is both a right and a responsibility. Without happiness what is it all for?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Holland, I know the post from today that has prompted you to post this. The notion of not being "entitled" to happiness in their relationship is absurd...who is the judge and jury here? WTF would be the point of life otherwise? To merely exist?? EVERYBODY is entitled to happiness! Can you imagine saying to one of your children who finds themselves in a miserable relationship to just suck it up, buttercup, you arent ENTITLED to happiness?? 

It is the responsibility of BOTH people in a relationship to seek to provide security and happiness for themselves and their partner. Seriously, what is the point otherwise? Why bother? Why would you even go into a relationship if happiness is not the pursuit?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I think one is entitled to happiness in a relationship.

That's why we have relationships isn't it?

That's usually the unspoken assumption between anyone in a relationship anyway so ..yeah.

I agree

Meaning that the other person in that relationship is entitled to happiness too so you should make it a priority and be sure they know to do the same.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

There is no "right" to happiness. Some people are dirt poor, some have catastrophic illnesses, some live in war zones. We all have reasons to be happy or to be miserable and each of us are personally responsible for our own mental well-being. If one believes happiness is the normal condition and a human right, they place an unfair and unreasonable demand on themselves and their partner. People have accidents, get murdered, get sick, or break up in Disneyworld, the allegedly happiest place on earth. Life happens and it won't always be fun. When it's not, it's not someone else's fault.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> There is no "right" to happiness. Some people are dirt poor, some have catastrophic illnesses, some live in war zones. We all have reasons to be happy or to be miserable and each of us are personally responsible for our own mental well-being. If one believes happiness is the normal condition and a human right, they place an unfair and unreasonable demand on themselves and their partner. People have accidents, get murdered, get sick, or break up in Disneyworld, the allegedly happiest place on earth. Life happens and it won't always be fun. When it's not, it's not someone else's fault.


Understood and I agree.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "natural rights".
The universe gives not a damn.

But I think the OP's context was within the confines of a normal relationship.

Discounting death and plague of course.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I think you can be with the perfect husband/wife who has your every happiness and best interest at heart and does their best for you, but that's not enough to actually make you happy. You have to be happy yourself and with your life and choices in life; if you aren't, no one else can make you happy.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Understood and I agree.
> 
> I don't believe there is such a thing as "natural rights".
> The universe gives not a damn.
> ...


There certainly are natural rights but happiness is not one of them! You have a natural right to your life. You have a natural right to be free to do what you want without harming others. Happiness is not a right, nor is it a goal. The goal should be to live a loving, moral life, and not to cause others to suffer by your actions. Happiness is the byproduct of this state of mind; of living in accordance with natural law. If you choose to treat others well, you will be happy as a byproduct of behaving morally and consciously. Conversely, if you choose to abuse, cheat, steal, kill, and perform other actions in violation of the natural law, the less happy you will be.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, happiness comes from within and someone should not rely on someone else to "make me happy".

That being said, of course people want to be happy in a relationship. Why would they be someone if they didn't want to be happy with them.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

SolidSnake said:


> There certainly are natural rights but happiness is not one of them! You have a natural right to your life. You have a natural right to be free to do what you want without harming others. Happiness is not a right, nor is it a goal. The goal should be to live a loving, moral life, and not to cause others to suffer by your actions. Happiness is the byproduct of this state of mind; of living in accordance with natural law. If you choose to treat others well, you will be happy as a byproduct of behaving morally and consciously. Conversely, if you choose to abuse, cheat, steal, kill, and perform other actions in violation of the natural law, the less happy you will be.


We will have to agree to disagree.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

norajane said:


> I think you can be with the perfect husband/wife who has your every happiness and best interest at heart and does their best for you, but that's not enough to actually make you happy. You have to be happy yourself and with your life and choices in life; if you aren't,* no one else can make you happy*.


Agreed. Conversely people can make you unhappy.

The OP is about happiness in a relationship, I believe it is a right to expect your partner to provide an environment that nourishes happiness. If they do not meet this obligation then IMHO it is acceptable for the other to end the relationship.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Holland said:


> The OP is about happiness in a relationship, I believe it is a right to expect your partner to provide an environment that nourishes happiness.


I doubt anyone would disagree with the expectation of mutual support in a relationship.

When we use terms like "right" without qualification and in so loose a manner then you are going to have people disagreeing with you over semantics.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

Wiserforit said:


> I doubt anyone would disagree with the expectation of mutual support in a relationship.
> 
> When we use terms like "right" without qualification and in so loose a manner then you are going to have people disagreeing with you over semantics.


Agreed.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> There is no "right" to happiness. Some people are dirt poor, some have catastrophic illnesses, some live in war zones. We all have reasons to be happy or to be miserable and each of us are personally responsible for our own mental well-being. If one believes happiness is the normal condition and a human right, they place an unfair and unreasonable demand on themselves and their partner. People have accidents, get murdered, get sick, or break up in Disneyworld, the allegedly happiest place on earth. Life happens and it won't always be fun. When it's not, it's not someone else's fault.


Yes people do have a personal responsibility for their own well being but they also have a personal responsibility for the well being of others. Such as their mate and offspring. How we treat our mate and offspring determines how happy we can be. I agree that happiness is a byproduct of our actions. As is misery, anger, ect. 

As far as it being a right... I do feel people deserve happiness but it is up to them on how they go about accomplishing this.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> I doubt anyone would disagree with the expectation of mutual support in a relationship.
> 
> When we use terms like "right" without qualification and in so loose a manner then you are going to have people disagreeing with you over semantics.


Ah ha but you are taking half of the sentiment of the OP and disregarding the rest. The OP stated that we have a right to happiness in a relationship and also a right to end the relationship if happiness is not there. There are poster on TAM that have stated that regardless we must keep going with the relationship. I disagree with this.

I do believe we have a "right" to happiness in a relationship, we also have a right to end the relationship if there is no happiness.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Holland said:


> Ah ha but you are taking half of the sentiment of the OP and disregarding the rest. The OP stated that we have a right to happiness in a relationship and also a right to end the relationship if happiness is not there. *There are poster on TAM that have stated that regardless we must keep going with the relationship.* I disagree with this.
> 
> I do believe we have a "right" to happiness in a relationship, we also have a right to end the relationship if there is no happiness.


Everyone has the right to end a relationship no matter the reason at any time. 

My parents have been married for 46 years. There have been periods when they have been deeply unhappy in the relationship. But they stuck with it and eventually worked through the issues they had that made them unhappy, and they are happy.

So I can see what that poster might have meant. If you run when the going gets tough, you can end up running from every relationship because every relationship goes through periods when there is no happiness for one reason or another. It would be foolish to expect otherwise in a lifetime. No one is always happy.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Holland said:


> Ah ha but you are taking half of the sentiment of the OP and disregarding the rest. The OP stated that we have a right to happiness in a relationship and also a right to end the relationship if happiness is not there. There are poster on TAM that have stated that regardless we must keep going with the relationship. I disagree with this.
> 
> I do believe we have a "right" to happiness in a relationship, we also have a right to end the relationship if there is no happiness.


I disagree as well. If there are so much unhappiness it would no doubt be the result of harmful behavior and environment. Leaving this is only a natural and basic instinct called self preservation. Then there is the process of seeking out something better and safer. It wouldn't make sense to continue to stay in something that's harming you.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

norajane said:


> Everyone has the right to end a relationship no matter the reason at any time.
> 
> My parents have been married for 46 years. There have been periods when they have been deeply unhappy in the relationship. But they stuck with it and eventually worked through the issues they had that made them unhappy, and they are happy.
> 
> So I can see what that poster might have meant. If you run when the going gets tough, you can end up running from every relationship because every relationship goes through periods when there is no happiness for one reason or another. It would be foolish to expect otherwise in a lifetime. No one is always happy.


Every married couple goes through tough times. I would make an educated guess that the ones who make it through the hard times and become happy again are the ones who work together and acknowledge the issue as a problem they BOTH need to work on or get through. The ones who don't are the ones where neither one of them wants to work on it and compromise, OR one of them does eveything they can do to return their marriage to a happy state but the other sits by and does nothing or worse, sabotages their partner's efforts.


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## ArdwenHeart (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm sure there's a quote out there that says this better than me...but, if you place the total responsibility/control over your personal happiness in someone else's hands, they will always disappoint, because they are not you. But if you find the people in your life are bringing you down, making you sad, disrespecting you, then it might be time to reconsider who you choose to have in your life. "Right to happiness"? I don't care whether it is a right by whatever law or not. I want to be happy! And a spouse/partner is a BIG part of a person's life. If they're the proverbial "stick in the mud" or just a plain out abusive a-hole, or just not right for you, then it's going to lead to bad feelings in your life. It always good to analyze and think through what your motivations are. And I also think a big part of it definitely is being happy within yourself, and feeling like you are needed and do good for the people around you. I'm staying with my husband, who has done some pretty terrible things to me and who does something to make me unhappy on a pretty regular basis. But I just have to go through counseling to know whether there are any tools I haven't pulled out of my "arsenal." I want to be able to say to my children (4YO twin boys) that mom and dad tried everything...and either it worked or it didn't. That will...well, it won't make me happy, but I'll have peace of mind about the issue. One way or another. So, summary: I don't think it's a good idea to place all your hopes for happiness in another person. But your choices about who you keep in your life will definitely affect your level of happiness. Is it a right? Are we entitled? Whether we are or aren't, I don't think it changes the fact that we will always search for, and for the most part, find...happiness.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Holland said:


> Ah ha but you are taking half of the sentiment of the OP and disregarding the rest.


Nope. Like I said, you have created an obvious semantic problem by being too loose with language. 

When people use the word "right" formally, especially as it concerns marriage, that is a legal matter. You have the right to terminate any relationship including marriage. You have the right not to testify against your spouse, you have parental rights over children, a right to marital property, etc. 

But the expectation of mutual support is just that - an expectation but not anything rising to the level of a literal marriage right. If your spouse won't let you in the house, you can call the cops and force him to open the door. It is your right to live in the marital home. But the cop cannot force your husband to make you happy. 

Speaking very loosely, if we say a right and an expectation are the same thing - maybe. But now you negate the responsibility of people to enforce their expectations of fair treatment. If you act like a doormat then you'll be treated like one. So using the term "right" is really problemmatic.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> Nope. Like I said, you have created an obvious semantic problem by being too loose with language.
> 
> When people use the word "right" formally, especially as it concerns marriage, that is a legal matter. You have the right to terminate any relationship including marriage. You have the right not to testify against your spouse, you have parental rights over children, a right to marital property, etc.
> 
> ...


Maybe you are being semantic for the sake of trying to prove a point? I did not say that we have a "legal" right to happiness in a relationship, I said we have a 'right to happiness in a relationship' so therefore you are reading more into the OP than is there.

There are legal rights in life, there are basic human rights but there are also personal rights. I know what my legal rights are, I know what my basic human rights are and I also know that I have the right to happiness in a relationship, and a right to end the marriage if it is not a happy one and I also have an obligation to create an environment to my partner that promotes happiness.

Not looking for anyone to agree but I am stating a fact that I have a right to happiness in a relationship. If this happiness is not obtainable or is taken away by the action or inaction of a partner then the relationship ends.


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## empty3 (Mar 12, 2013)

What about when "happiness" is defined differently by both people in the marriage?? After all it's an abstract and subjective concept..

One believes "happiness" is the absence of ill health, a nice home, healthy kids, comfortable income etc..

The other believes "happiness" is self fullfilment, a need for connection and to be understood, a level of emotional intamacy etc..

When such views of happiness are so polarised it's extremely difficult to be "happy"..

What's the solution?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

empty3 said:


> What about when "happiness" is defined differently by both people in the marriage?? After all it's an abstract and subjective concept..
> 
> One believes "happiness" is the absence of ill health, a nice home, healthy kids, comfortable income etc..
> 
> ...


It may well be different in each relationship and something the couple need to discuss. In my situation the ex withheld intimacy, we talked about it and tried to work through the issues for years. Ultimately he kept saying he was happy with how things were, I told him I was unhappy. His happiness trumped my unhappiness for many years because a happy person has less motivation to fix things. 
I ended the marriage eventually because I firmly believe we all have the right to be happy in a relationship.

Better to be single and happy than married and unhappy.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I also think that happiness and even self esteem come from others. No not all of it, and obviously you are ultimately responsible if someone is cutting you down or making you miserable.

However in a relationship both people are responsible for making the other happy, contributing to overall happiness in the relationship and for helping the other person feel good. 

I don't know what the point of being with someone is if you can't count on them and they are not contributing to your well being.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

empty3 said:


> What about when "happiness" is defined differently by both people in the marriage?? After all it's an abstract and subjective concept..
> 
> One believes "happiness" is the absence of ill health, a nice home, healthy kids, comfortable income etc..
> 
> ...


They have a responsibility to meet the other persons needs and help create happiness.


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## empty3 (Mar 12, 2013)

Holland said:


> It may well be different in each relationship and something the couple need to discuss. In my situation the ex withheld intimacy, we talked about it and tried to work through the issues for years. Ultimately he kept saying he was happy with how things were, I told him I was unhappy. His happiness trumped my unhappiness for many years because a happy person has less motivation to fix things.
> I ended the marriage eventually because I firmly believe we all have the right to be happy in a relationship.
> 
> Better to be single and happy than married and unhappy.


Ya, but what about if the quest for personal happiness absolutely outweighs the fact that we have responsibilities and obligations?

Are we being selfish by pursuing happiness when in actual fact we should focus on the fact that we are keeping a family in tact? Can "happiness" be on a backburner for a while, whilst the focus is on bringing up young kids and where certain sacrifices have to be made? 

There is a split between East and West. Seeing as the majority of posters on this site are of Western origin there seems to be an overwhelming sense of "leave if you're unhappy" whereas in the Eastern context you do not break your commitment simply because you're "unhappy". Taboo, honour, family ties, community all plays a major role.

For someone like me who straddles both cultures, the self-construct of what to do in an "unhappy" marriage is internally turbulent. Your role models stick it out through thick and thin yet your peers seem to put their personal needs at the forefront.

I am currently exploring what is ideal and what is realistic.


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## empty3 (Mar 12, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> They have a responsibility to meet the other persons needs and help create happiness.


Exactly.

Preferably without riduculing or devaluing what the other person see's as important.


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## empty3 (Mar 12, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I also think that happiness and even self esteem come from others. No not all of it, and obviously you are ultimately responsible if someone is cutting you down or making you miserable.
> 
> However in a relationship both people are responsible for making the other happy, contributing to overall happiness in the relationship and for helping the other person feel good.
> 
> I don't know what the point of being with someone is if you can't count on them and they are not contributing to your well being.


I agree.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

empty3 said:


> Ya, but what about if the quest for personal happiness absolutely outweighs the fact that we have responsibilities and obligations?
> 
> Are we being selfish by pursuing happiness when in actual fact we should focus on the fact that we are keeping a family in tact? Can "happiness" be on a backburner for a while, whilst the focus is on bringing up young kids and where certain sacrifices have to be made?
> 
> ...


It is a very interesting question, again case by case. Honestly I don't think there would be many people that head for divorce without doing a huge amount of work first to try and avoid it. 

Yes happiness can be on the back burner for a time especially when children are involved and many parents (myself included) suffer through unhappy marriages "just for the children." There is a point in time though when living without happiness is not the issue, the issue then becomes living with extreme unhappiness. These are two different things, happiness can be lived without, extreme unhappiness however can become a physical and mental health issue (from personal experience).

As for children, IMHO showing them an example of an unfullfilling or unhappy marriage is a major problem. It simply perpetuates the acceptance of unhappy marriages.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Here is how I feel... I ENJOY Being happy...I wasn't happy with my family life in my teens, I wanted a better future for myself...I remember how I hated that situation and couldn't wait to FLY from it...

My spirit is quenched when I am not happy, it shows in most everything I do.. I can't wear a  when I am miserable , or my irritation will manifest in other ways....I am a very upbeat person the majority of the time... bubbly in fact.. (a testament to how Wonderful my husband *IS*) ...I am genuinely grateful for what I have...







and I would never expect anything more than I give myself ... how important this is... In this way I would not feel I am "entitled". 

If I found myself in a miserable relationship, I would 1st evaluate *my own hand *to what was causing the breakdown/ disconnect /Unhappiness....do my damnest to work with such a man ...climbing a mountain to DO my part...arouse his part....and still....if he remained distant, passive to my needs, uncaring to meet me half way, lazy, unworkable, ungrateful, rejecting...after so much *time* given .....

I would have to leave such a relationship....because if I didn't, I know me, I would be ripe to fall into something with another... I would NEED someone to talk to.... I would get tired of talking to women friends... I am not the type that hangs with the girls too much, it's not my cup of tea...I have very little extended family.... 

Being a *Romantic at







*...I "get High" on being in Love...concentrating all of my everything on this one amazing person, my other half... I need that. I love making someone happy...doing for them.... it would crush me to not have this given back...with a similar measure... Maybe one can call this some sort of Affliction of mine I suppose, but it's beautiful when you have experienced it. 

I want to enjoy my life, what Life I have down here..I will do the best for everyone involved but would not stay where I was not fulfilled. If others enjoy judging something like that...I say "let them judge". I would not judge a husband who left his wife over a lacking sex life either -that is more honorable than cheating on her- which too often happens BEFORE the leaving. 

Also for those who have tasted of this sort of Happiness I speak...when the harder times come upon you (they always do -for us it was more external, not internal )...such a couple is ABLE to weather those storms -being able to look back on what you have built together, enjoyed together, overcome together...and draw strength from that.....

If a couple never had this to begin with..... they may feel this is the BEST it gets..so they stay, suck it up....their self worth may be beaten so low, they have no idea "better" could be had outside of that said relationship. 

Bottom line, everyone needs a partner offering HOPE, willing to work with them to overcome their relationship obstacles.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Happiness comes from outside and within and, whilst the way we think (having an optimistic attitude towards life) plays a large part in whether we're happy or not, our relationships (personal, work and social) and other factors (biological and genetic) play important roles, too.

Being in an unhappy marriage is going to have a negative impact on a person's level of happiness in other areas of their lives, but by the same token - being unhappy in other areas of a person's life can also impact on their marriages.

The key would appear to be to strive to maintain healthy relationships with ourselves and others.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

empty3 said:


> Ya, but what about if the quest for personal happiness absolutely outweighs the fact that we have responsibilities and obligations?
> 
> Are we being selfish by pursuing happiness when in actual fact we should focus on the fact that we are keeping a family in tact? Can "happiness" be on a backburner for a while, whilst the focus is on bringing up young kids and where certain sacrifices have to be made?
> 
> ...


I would like to correct this view of western culture. It's not as do what you want as people believe. There are still struggles with family ties, honor, ect. If there weren't there wouldn't be so much trouble with in laws worldwide. 

Now everyone has a different view on what "family" is. 

For me... Family is my spouse and kids. My spouse is who I make love to, procreate with, go to sleep with, and spend damn near every waking minute of my life with. My spouse is my best friend, my life partner, my lover, ect. He is my family. Him and our kids. 

Then there are my relatives and his own. We both come from different cultures as well so there is a clash when it comes to interacting with relatives. 

As far as honor goes... I see it this way. There is honoring your relatives and there is honoring your spouse and offspring. 

If my relatives were damaging the relationship between my spouse, kids, and myself I would not hesitate to cut ties to protect my family unit. It has happened with us and I did indeed cut ties. 

Then there are issues between the spouses. Sometimes with some couples... the issues between the spouses are so severe the better choice would be to part ways for the health and happiness of not just themselves but their kids if there are any. 

Alot of people advocate trying to work out the issues if they can. If they are unable then leaving would be the next choice. Better then remaining and creating a toxic environment.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Speaking of happiness... The arbys sandwich i just woofed down and large pepsi I'm sipping on is responsible for my belly's happiness.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Speaking of happiness... The arbys sandwich i just woofed down and large pepsi I'm sipping on is responsible for my belly's happiness.


Ahhh the simple things in life are often the best


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

*LittleDeer* said:


> They have a responsibility to meet the other persons needs and help create happiness.


I agree. Why is it that people here believe sexual needs should be met, but not necessarily emotional? Because its not concrete? I was also in a marriage where his "happiness" trumped my unhappiness for years before I finally pulled the plug. His happiness was really just him willing to settle for a passionless emotionless marriage devoid of any real love because it was better than being alone. And he absolutely refused to work on any of it. He just wanted me to continue the charade for him.
Did I have a "right" to expect more? I finally decided that I was giving that to myself, because he was never going to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm very happy in my marriage!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Gaia said:


> I disagree as well. If there are so much unhappiness it would no doubt be the result of harmful behavior and environment. Leaving this is only a natural and basic instinct called self preservation. Then there is the process of seeking out something better and safer. It wouldn't make sense to continue to stay in something that's harming you.


And that is exactly why this sort of thinking can be harmful. Most people are unhappy because of their own choices and not because their environment or partner. Happy people don't have perfect partners, perfect kids, perfect jobs, etc. "Happy" people are content. They have learned to be thankful and joyful. They don't expect life to be perfect. They can roll with surprises. If their spouse makes a mistake, they don't assume the partner intentionally means them harm.
If I assume my unhappiness is due to my environment, I assume a posture of weakness that says I have no influence on how others treat me. If my job sucks it must be because my boss or my coworkers or the job itself sucks. It couldn't be that I was a lousy employee. If my marriage isn't making me happy, I'd better dump it and find a different partner. It can't be that I'm not being a great partner. I can leave others and I have some influence on others but I can only change me and everyone could use some improvement.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> And that is exactly why this sort of thinking can be harmful. Most people are unhappy because of their own choices and not because their environment or partner. Happy people don't have perfect partners, perfect kids, perfect jobs, etc. "Happy" people are content. They have learned to be thankful and joyful. They don't expect life to be perfect. They can roll with surprises. If their spouse makes a mistake, they don't assume the partner intentionally means them harm.
> If I assume my unhappiness is due to my environment, I assume a posture of weakness that says I have no influence on how others treat me. If my job sucks it must be because my boss or my coworkers or the job itself sucks. It couldn't be that I was a lousy employee. If my marriage isn't making me happy, I'd better dump it and find a different partner. It can't be that I'm not being a great partner. I can leave others and I have some influence on others but I can only change me and everyone could use some improvement.


I did not suggest nor do i myself think one should leave at the first sign of unhappiness. I think you misunderstand my post here. I am implying that if things can not be worked out despite ones best efforts, things are emotionally, physically, mentally abusive, ect and it will just stay the same and grow even more toxic if one stays then yes leaving that unhappy environment should be done imo. Of course ultimately one can only change oneself but we are influenced by outside forces as well to an extent. Just as we are influenced, we can influence others. 

Yes for some a job will suck because of influences like coworkers, bosses, managers, supervisors, layoffs, ect. Someone could be the best employee in the world and hate their job. No one expects perfection from anything that I'm aware of. I believe your misunderstanding that as well. Ones environment and partner influences ones choices at times too. 

Does this mean they are not responsible for that choice? No. They are indeed ultimately responsible for what they choose to do. If one partner is selfish and thinks only about themselves it will influence the other to eventually make a choice to leave or cheat or whatever.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> And that is exactly why this sort of thinking can be harmful. Most people are unhappy because of their own choices and not because their environment or partner. Happy people don't have perfect partners, perfect kids, perfect jobs, etc. "Happy" people are content. They have learned to be thankful and joyful. They don't expect life to be perfect. They can roll with surprises. If their spouse makes a mistake, they don't assume the partner intentionally means them harm.
> If I assume my unhappiness is due to my environment, I assume a posture of weakness that says I have no influence on how others treat me. If my job sucks it must be because my boss or my coworkers or the job itself sucks. It couldn't be that I was a lousy employee. If my marriage isn't making me happy, I'd better dump it and find a different partner. It can't be that I'm not being a great partner. I can leave others and I have some influence on others but I can only change me and everyone could use some improvement.


You can take all the personal responsibility you want for your own happiness, but if you have a partner who doesn't want to participate- for years on end- you're dancing by yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> These are two different things, happiness can be lived without, extreme unhappiness however can become a physical and mental health issue (from personal experience).


I agree with this...there is a difference to me in expecting your spouse to "make you happy" and expecting your souse NOT to chronically suck the happiness out of you or steal your joy.An expectation that your spouse be more supportive than not more encouraging than not is one thing.But if I looked to my spouse and he me to "make each happy" we would both be complete failures at it .Trying t make them feel good/or better than you do(cheering each other up) is different too than "making me happy".Being happy/content "with " the relationship is also completely different than "making you happy".What if I'm "unhappy" or he is "unhappy" about something that has NOTHING to do with us?You can be there for each other through the unhappiness but I cant expect my spouse is responsible to do something to "make me happy" or lets say a "happy person" everyday .Not to say he cant do something or say something to bring me temporary delight.Just as he can do or say something that brings me temporay sadness or hurt or pain.Hopefully thier is a balance though weighing more heavily on the former.

If the expectation on your happiness is on your spouse.Then you can have the situation where by all "reasonable" standards your spouse is good to you and supportive of you .But you just "aren't happy"...You can blame it on your spouse because its their responsibility to make you happy and start making ureasonable demands and or think leaving them is the answer if they cant live up to your expectations.And like I said that is differrent than a spouse who is purposely trying to bring you down.Being mean to you ..indifferent that seems to not care about you or your well being at all.Where they dont care if you are happy or not for any reason or in fact seem hell bent on making you miserable and this is the norm.The "theme" of the relationship.

If your spouse is supposed to "make you happy" would you tell a single person who is unhappy with life /unhappy with themselves/that the solution is to get married to have a spouse be responsible for "making them happy"?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

norajane said:


> If you run when the going gets tough, you can end up running from every relationship because every relationship goes through periods when there is no happiness for one reason or another. It would be foolish to expect otherwise in a lifetime. No one is always happy.


:iagree: with ^^^^this x 100%

One of the most elusive things in life is happiness.
One of life's greatest paradox is that those with the most opportunities are the least happy.
We need to be careful when we say that we have _a right_ to happiness . To believe and expect that one has an 
" unalienable right " to happiness in a relationship in itself leads to unhappiness.

There are many,many women who do everything within their power to make their husbands happy and yet he remains unhappy and makes her life miserable in return.

There are many, many men who do everything in their power to make their wife happy, yet she remains unhappy for no apparent reason.
I think personal responsibility should factor in high, in the conquest of happiness.
As Cosmos posted above, there are many, many things incidental to a relationship which does affect one's perception of , and ability to feel happiness.
Also many issues that arise in relationships are in themselves adventitious ,and can affect its dynamics,either good or bad.
Personal and emotional maturity plays a huge part.

And then there is this worrisome principle of,
_The law of diminishing returns_........


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I highly doubt anyone expects to be happy all the time. That there is impossible.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I think there are a combination of things... yes we have the right to be happy as long as it's not at anyone else's expense but along with that comes the duty to make the good choices that lead to happiness.

Also I think we need to except the varying degrees of happiness go from content to ecstatic. As a mellow person, for me being content is a supreme level of happiness.

So to give up quickly because we made bad decisions and justify our actions due to our rights to happiness is deluded and childish. We must recognize that happiness comes from many sources, one being our interpersonal relationships and acknowledge those must be cultivated and tended to on a regular basis. It is not unreasonable to expect the other people in our lives to do the same; however if those actions become neglect it is our duty to let them know that and eventually we can accept we do not have the same priority level in that other person's life that we give them in ours. That is painful to accept and it then becomes necessary to remove those relationships and regain the happiness we find by being loved and appreciated.

So yes, it is our right to be happy, it is our duty to ensure that happiness by cultivating it continually and it is our duty to remain faithful to ourselves and our needs be removing 'toxic' people from our lives who don't prioritize us the same way we do them.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Happiness is largely a choice and not a "right!" *In my relationship, even though there were things that made things difficult in it, it in no way diminished the happiness that I derived from other aspects of that relationship.

I just found it in my heart to be "happy" about those positive attributes, and chose to look past or simply ignore the negative ones.

In retrospect, I was probably very wrong in that assessment~ but then again, that's just me!


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Happiness is largely a choice and not a "right!" *In my relationship, even though there were things that made things difficult in it, it in no way diminished the happiness that I derived from other aspects of that relationship.
> 
> I just found it in my heart to be "happy" about those positive attributes, and chose to look past or simply ignore the negative ones.
> 
> In retrospect, I was probably very wrong in that assessment~ but then again, that's just me!


I get that - I choose to be a glass-half-full person. I have discovered that I can NOT be with a glass-half-empty person. It would suck the life out of my soul.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> it is our duty to ensure that happiness by cultivating it continually and it is our duty to remain faithful to ourselves and our needs be removing 'toxic' people from our lives who don't prioritize us the same way we do them.


Not to split hairs but I again think their is a difference in removing a toxic person from our lives and or people who don't prioritize us the "same way" we do them.I might prioritize my husband differently than he prioritizes me that doesn't mean either one of us is "toxic".My husband is not a mirror image of me or my clone or vice versa.Part of any happiness or contentness in your relationship HAS to include some level of accepting our differrences and yes even differences that are not your ideal in a mate or our faults.Thats not to say we should "accept" toxicity especially not ongoing.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Not to split hairs but I again think their is a difference in removing a toxic person from our lives and or people who don't prioritize us the "same way" we do them.I might prioritize my husband differently than he prioritizes me that doesn't mean either one of us is "toxic".My husband is not a mirror image of me or my clone or vice versa.Part of any happiness or contentness in your relationship HAS to include some level of accepting our differrences and yes even differences that are not your ideal in a mate or our faults.Thats not to say we should "accept" toxicity especially not ongoing.


By toxic I mean someone whose prioritization of you becomes completely unacceptable. Then you address it, try to fix it. When it is obvious it is neither fixable or acceptable, you must end it.

So although hair splitting, you are correct that differences are fine - it's what is acceptable to YOU and your relationship that matters. If it's still within your range, you're still happy, right?


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Holland said:


> Maybe you are being semantic for the sake of trying to prove a point?


This is hardly a matter of splitting hairs. Otherwise the only posts you would get are "I agree". 



> Not looking for anyone to agree


Then you wouldn't be so argumentative about it and belittle important distinctions such as the observation that a pampered princess can say exactly the same thing, believing her happiness is someone else's responsibility.

With that attitude, nobody can make her happy, and she will leave every relationship without ever finding happiness. 

It isn't a good idea to be so loose with language.



> but I am stating a fact


You are stating your opinion.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

replying to the original post: I think we're entitled to receive exactly what we give when it comes to happiness,love,affection,and all other emotional matters.

**also,if we aren't happy with ourselves we can't expect someone else to make us happy but if we're trying daily to meet their needs then I feel we're entitled to expect them to do the same.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

If your spouse is injured or ill and their ability to give is diminished, what then? Should expectations be lowered or renegotiated? I think I would say that you are entitled to their effort and attention such as it is. Happiness is a state of mind that is your responsibility and no one else's. 

Blaming environment for your unhappiness is ultimately a victim's way of seeing things.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

VermisciousKnid said:


> If your spouse is injured or ill and their ability to give is diminished, what then? Should expectations be lowered or renegotiated? I think I would say that you are entitled to their effort and attention such as it is. Happiness is a state of mind that is your responsibility and no one else's.
> 
> Blaming environment for your unhappiness is ultimately a victim's way of seeing things.


I think this depends on one's ability to cope. I know a man who was happily married and VERY active - very attractive couple. Canoeing, rafting, traveling... they were riding a motorcycle when they had an accident (not his fault) and she was thrown clear; he's a quadriplegic. They tried very hard to make it work. But they couldn't do anything they used to and sex wasn't possible. First she stuck it out. Then he encouraged her to go back to her normal life by going out with friends, etc. thensuggested she 'date' for physical/sexual reasons. Bottom line she fell in love with someone. 

How much can you expect someone to give up? And give it up for a VERY long time? (They were early 40s.) I don't have an opinion on this scenario - I would like to think if it were me I'd figure out how to be intimate within his limitations and get around to do stuff with properly equipped van, etc. but I also understand her side. He's equally frustrated about the turn of events and being a millionaire now thanks to winning the law suit doesn't soften the blow.

The both deserve happiness. But now what they both view as happiness has changed.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> It isn't a good idea to be so loose with language.


Agreed!..that is my problem.."make me happy" is SOOOOO from here to there to everywhere I could never agree to that "rule" as in an "entitlement or right" in marriage.And I would never tell a developing child that's what a spouse is for .Its way to loose to ever "agree to".At least not without a LOT of other words thrown in to clarify .But just in general bad idea to go around saying.

If if I was proposed to today and he said to me "will you marry me and promise to "make me happy" I would have to say no.I will marry you but not on the terms its my responsibilty to make you "happy".

On the flip side I also don't agree with the loose phrase..."marriage is NOT for happiness" I disagree with that sentiment as well.Its not that simple.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> How much can you expect someone to give up? And give it up for a VERY long time? (They were early 40s.) I don't have an opinion on this scenario - I would like to think if it were me I'd figure out how to be intimate within his limitations and get around to do stuff with properly equipped van, etc. but I also understand her side. He's equally frustrated about the turn of events and being a millionaire now thanks to winning the law suit doesn't soften the blow.


I honestly don't think I'd be giving up more than I was gaining.To be that one very special person to him and he me but in the only way we could.Maybe I might consider it a gift to be by his side going through the trials together.Maybe I'de be thankful he wasn't dead..knowing I was making a difference a huge difference in his life when he had so little options and maybe even feeling helpless and hopeless..would not be "giving up something" for me.I would have a soooo special role beyond "sex" and beyond all of the "physical".I think I would be more concerned about him rather than if I got to go water rafting or got to have sex(which is a dime a dozen) .If he still had his mind we would still have each other.We could still connect.But then again I have known my husband since I was 14 and he 16 and we are now in our mid and late 40's..I cant imagine running off leaving him paralyzed in a wheel chair without me because "he couldn't make me happy anymore".Not to mention I would miss him too much so its not like a huge sacrifice.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> First she stuck it out. Then he encouraged her to go back to her normal life by going out with friends, etc. thensuggested she 'date' for physical/sexual reasons. Bottom line she fell in love with someone.


He suggested it I'm sure hoping she would say no.Going out with friends is one thing.You might do that anyway even if one isn't strapped imobile in a wheelchair.I don't get why when it came down to it his MIND and feelings were less important than her"physical needs" and we aren't talking food or sleep.Its like the last thing to matter is someones feelings and emotions.If that's all you have left then you walk off.

All I know is the guy that she "fell in love with" better know he needs to watch out.She doesn't seem to care all that much about peoples minds and or feelings if she is not getting her "physical needs" met.(like sex and what? jumping on a trampoline or sky diving?)Hope he doesn't develop ED that cant be treated or arthritis.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I get that - I choose to be a glass-half-full person. I have discovered that I can NOT be with a glass-half-empty person. It would suck the life out of my soul.


Same. I am by nature a very happy person, I have always found happiness within myself and never relied on another for happiness.
I have a very positive outlook and attitude to life. 

The question in the OP was not about relying on another to make us happy, that in itself would be a foolish thing to do. It was more about the attitude of *"you must stick it out in a relationship no matter what, no one is entitled to be happy".
*


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> I think people should be happy in their relationship with respect to their spouse and their spouse's happiness. People have a responsibilty to their own personal happiness AND a responsibility to participate with their family in creating a happy home.
> 
> What I see often today is the word "happiness" is used as a substitute for the word "selfishness" and that seems to have everyone a little confused about having a "right to be happy".
> 
> ...


Yes all good examples of selfishness but not what I am talking about as I stated very clearly that along with the right to happiness is also a responsibility and obligation.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> "you must stick it out in a relationship no matter what, no one is entitled to be happy".


:smthumbup:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> "you must stick it out in a relationship no matter what, no one is entitled to be happy".



:smthumbup:


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> *Thats is absolutley NOT what the OP asked.it was a basic "are you ENTITLED to be happy as well as the thread everyone knows you got it from is "you should expect your spouse to MAKE you happy"...*
> 
> I don't think anyone has said you must STAY MARRIED no matter what..I certaintly haven't..In fact I'm a against that.WHOLLY..I'm also against PREACHING to children marriage is "supposed to make you happy".Those are two completely different things.
> 
> Who said "you must stick it out in a marriage no matter what"?


No you are wrong, I am not sure what thread you are referring too but it has nothing to do with expecting a spouse to make you happy. It was a poster staying that* no one is entitled to happiness and implying that people must stick with a marriage no matter what.*


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

here is the quote dallasapple (is it against guidelines to cross quote?)
I have no idea which thread you are referring to but it is rude to have said that


> well as the thread everyone knows you got it from is "you should expect your spouse to MAKE you happy"...


by doing this you are deliberately changing the context of the thread.



> You simply cannot control the other person. If they commit adultery, then I absolutely agree that is grounds for a divorce. *However, if the other person simply isn't making you happy, then that is not a good reason for divorce. No one is entitled to happiness... it is something you choose to pursue. You made a commitment to your spouse, and IMO you should honor that commitment.*


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Late to the game, but I'll throw in my two cents.

You have a right to everything in the universe that you can manage to keep in your possession from someone who wishes to take it from you, at the end of your fist if necessary. I do not believe in god given rights, human rights, or inalienable rights as anything other than good social constructs that we would do well to nurture. Nonetheless, they are completely and absolutely subjective. 

Everything else is optional, including any right to happiness in or out of relationships.

So you have a right to search for happiness, insofar as you don't tread on anyone else's rights who is unwilling to allow your trespass in that quest. But you have no right to expect to find it. You may go from unhappy relationship to unhappy relationship 'til the universe grows cold, and it will merely shrug at you in disinterest.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

EnjoliWoman said:


> *I think this depends on one's ability to cope*. I know a man who was happily married and VERY active - very attractive couple. Canoeing, rafting, traveling... they were riding a motorcycle when they had an accident (not his fault) and she was thrown clear; he's a quadriplegic. They tried very hard to make it work. But they couldn't do anything they used to and sex wasn't possible. First she stuck it out. Then he encouraged her to go back to her normal life by going out with friends, etc. then suggested she 'date' for physical/sexual reasons. Bottom line she fell in love with someone.
> 
> *How much can you expect someone to give up?* And give it up for a VERY long time? (They were early 40s.) I don't have an opinion on this scenario - I would like to think if it were me I'd figure out how to be intimate within his limitations and get around to do stuff with properly equipped van, etc. *but I also understand her side.* He's equally frustrated about the turn of events and being a millionaire now thanks to winning the law suit doesn't soften the blow.
> 
> The both deserve happiness. But now what they both view as happiness has changed.


I commend you for *not* Judging EnjoliWoman.... This reminds me of the British tear Jerker 
 Breaking the Waves: ... very difficult to watch... I never wanted a BF who rode motorcycles or into high adventure...I'd be too worried something like that COULD happen. 

This scenario is something I FEAR more than anything else in this life...a car accident/ a drunk driver = these results, for instance... I would rather die 1st -than be on either side of that. I can handle being POOR, I can handle fighting, I can handle 12 kids if I had them/ mountains of debt... but this.....NO, I DO NOT BELIEVE I COULD... it would suck me down into the depths of Hell......I'd need drugs to cope. Being thrust into a Care Taking role like that ...such a person has to have another outlet. 

I've prayed "GOD, don't ever let this happen to either one of us"... that is how strongly I feel...I would never judge someone in those shoes.. 

When I was a little girl my mother worked for a man who had no arms & no legs, I was only about 6 ...seeing him sitting in that wheelchair....Even at that age, I felt so bad for him... but also his wife !! Just what has been taken from them it was unimaginable to me....Didn't want to imagine. 

Until it happens to you, or you have walked in that situation, you just DO NOT KNOW how you would handle it.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I commend you for *not* Judging EnjoliWoman....
> 
> Until it happens to you, or you have walked in that situation, you just DO NOT KNOW how you would handle it.


Thanks. I really try to understand we all aren't walking the same path and aren't the same people. I realize this wasn't the original topic, but an offshoot of the 'being entitled to be happy in a relationship'. Sometimes things happen that are beyond our control. To an extend we choose to dwell on things or learn to let them go. But there are always situations where being happy becomes an impossibility and it becomes one's personal responsibility to themselves to salvage what's left of your soul and crawl away.


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## olwhatsisname (Dec 5, 2012)

their is a personality type that keeps raising the bar,till it is beyond your ability to make a reasonable life. education for the kids etc.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

That's just it.Who gets to draw the line (even within each couple) what is reasonable to "expect" your spouse to do (or not do) to make you 'happy"?Someone on the outside too could say "don't you think thats being a little demanding" all they have to say is "but that's who I am and that's what I "need to be happy".I have bumped into people on this topic and involving "love languages" that no doubt have taken it to the extreme with lists.LONG list of specific nitty gritty details they have given their spouse to provide their needs or they will not be happy.The pressure...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> That's just it.Who gets to draw the line (even within each couple) what is reasonable to "expect" your spouse to do (or not do) to make you 'happy"?Someone on the outside too could say "don't you think thats being a little demanding" all they have to say is "but that's who I am and that's what I "need to be happy".


:iagree:

That's why I started my initial post on this thread by saying happiness is one of the most illusive things in life.

It is dangerous to think that one is " entitled" to happiness in any sphere of life or any relationship.

Happy, contented people create happiness, no matter what the situation.
In the early days of our marriage, we had difficult financial times.
My wife could have become unhappy and left me, simply because 
" she was entitled to happiness ". 
Instead she made the best of our situation, and even helped me to be happy ,many times when I was down. She is a happy type of person.
Today things are mush better, and we are happy together.

Being happy in a relationship requires some " heavy lifting " sometimes.
These things are not simply black & white....


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That's why I started my initial post on this thread by saying happiness is one of the most illusive things in life.
> 
> ...


Well your wife sounds like a sweet heart (you don't sound too bad either ) But yeah that is a prime example of "right to be happy" (your spouse MAKING YOU HAPPY) and how that belief if taken litterally can cause ALL kinds of problems including unrealistic ideals and expectations.Especially too when it reaches a point you are "unahappy" about things that your spouse isn't doing or not doing NOT intentially(like job loss your example) or over just basic core differences in personality even.Or even IF you are "unhappy" because of something your spouse is or isn't does or doesn't do where do you draw the line.

See ...its so not "black and white" this entire post of mine reads like a ping pong/yo you match!

In your situation lets say if your wife had been MEAN to you and hateful and kicked you while you were down making you feel WORSE..You wouldn't have said "hey that's not the deal I have the "right to expect that you make me happy and your not so by!"..but you might have said "i'm not so sure I want to emotionally invest and be vulnerable to a wife anymore that would treat me so coldy and intentionally bring me down especially when I'm already down and needed your support".

That's different than your "supposed to make me happy when I'm not"..


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

SolidSnake said:


> Happiness is not a right, nor is it a goal.


Sounds like a pretty miserable existence you got there...personally, I enjoy the pursuit of happiness. It keeps me alive....oh, and quite happy.



ArdwenHeart said:


> I'm sure there's a quote out there that says this better than me...but, if you place the total responsibility/control over your personal happiness in someone else's hands, they will always disappoint, because they are not you.


Ya, that is true. You gotta take care of yourself and your own needs. In a good relationship, you have someone who helps you do that, and cares about you and your happiness. If you reciprocate, you both are happier.



Holland said:


> Have read it here a few times in the last week that people are not entitled to happiness in a relationship, we have to take care of that ourselves.
> 
> WDYT?


OP, I think you and I are on the same page. I say what is the point in being in a relationship with someone that doesn't make you happy? 

Make you smile/ make you appreciate life more/ make you laugh/ make you want to try new things/ make you want to be a better version of yourself / make you feel special, etc.

Sure, it's no one's *job* to make you happy...I think most people can agree to that....but I think there are a lot of us out there who want to, and try to, make their partner happy/smile/laugh/'s life a little easier....and they enjoy being on the receiving end of that treatment too. We tend to mirror what we want, don't we?

The question... whether someone is entitled/has the right (no, not in a legal sense) to be happy in a relationship.... 

I think everyone has the right to be happy, in a relationship or on their own...who says someone else has no right(s)? 

I don't even think it's so much a matter of right/entitlement...I think it's just expected that you should be happy or what's the point?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

tulsy said:


> Sounds like a pretty miserable existence you got there...personally, I enjoy the pursuit of happiness. It keeps me alive....oh, and quite happy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love your post tulsy. A couple of the others have taken the thread in a different tangent and it is nice to see it come back to the original intention.

It was not about demanding another make us happy, it was about being happy within the context of an interpersonal relationship. Wow if we are not entitled to be happy withing our marriages then what on earth for?

Demanding another make you happy is a different discussion and something I totally disagree with. I have always found my own happiness even in the midst of a crumbling marriage my core happiness remained because I have always had so much to be greatful for.

But the quote I posted said that no one is entitled to happiness in a marriage and that we basically have to put up with a marriage to death. I vehemently disagree with that sentiment, we do have a right to be happy in a relationship.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

tulsy said:


> I think everyone has the right to be happy, in a relationship or on their own...who says someone else has no right(s)?
> 
> *I don't even think it's so much a matter of right/entitlement...I think it's just expected that you should be happy or what's the point?*


I was with you right up until you reached this point.


What if a woman is unable to conceive and bear her husband a son no matter what they try?
Should he leave her because she is unable to make him happy>
What if the man is unable to get her pregnant?
Should she leave because she expected to get pregnant and he is supposed to make her happy in that way?

What about the wife whose husband's job constantly has him on the move, and he is absent for long periods of time.
He misses all the important things that is important to her, birthdays, anniversaries, the birth of their child, another child's graduation and so forth.
Quite obviously this bring her a measure of unhappiness.
Should she file for divorce because he is unable to make her happy?

Isn't there a part in the marriage vows that state:

"..._I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part_...." [ ? ]


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I was with you right up until you reached this point.
> 
> 
> What if a woman is unable to conceive and bear her husband a son no matter what they try?
> ...



:toast:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I was with you right up until you reached this point.
> 
> 
> What if a woman is unable to conceive and bear her husband a son no matter what they try?
> ...


What about if she burns the toast? Or he throws his underwear on the floor?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> What about if she burns the toast? Or he throws his underwear on the floor?


My point exactly.
Happiness itself is like a moving target sometimes.
It can be very elusive.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> My point exactly.
> Happiness itself is like a moving target sometimes.
> It can be very elusive.


Sometimes you have to say "what the f***ck"


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> My point exactly.
> Happiness itself is like a moving target sometimes.
> It can be very elusive.


WHY do you keep putting the spaghetti spoon on the stove and NOT in he spaghetti spoon holder???Hmmm?You KNOW that makes me VERY unhappy when you do that!!!!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't necessarily think one is "entitled" to happiness in a relationship. I also don't think one should be dependant on a relationship for their own happiness in life. If a relationship can enhance your happiness or bring you happiness in other ways then great.

There are too many people out there who think they deserve happiness from some external source simply because they think they deserve it. Which isn't really a reason. It's just wishful thinking. I think this is one of the reasons so many relationships and marriages these days fail. When someone's significant other/spouse or whatever can't "give them" the happiness they're looking for, instead of trying to find it within themselves (or just leaving the relationship like they should) they let their relationship dictate their own happiness. Usually in a negative way.

I consider myself to be pretty happy in my life. I've also been single for almost 2 years. I've been single for more of my life then I've been in a relationship. I like to think I can dictate my own happiness outside of my interactions with another individual, even one I'm close to. That's not to say another person that I have intimate feelings for can't effect my emotions, but I've never felt "entitled" to a happy relationship. If I find a great person, we like each other, and both put forth effort to enhance each other's lives through our relationship then great. Am I entitlted to one? No. And I think when people DO feel entitled to a happy relationship just because they want one, it's a mentality that can set one up for an unhappy ending or unfulfilling relationship.

I think you're far more likely to have a fulfilling and happy relationship if you're happy with yourself, how you live your life, having a good relationship with family/friends, etc then just desiring a or feeling entitled to a "happy relationship" in and of itself.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Caribbean Man said:


> What if a woman is unable to conceive and bear her husband a son no matter what they try?
> Should he leave her because she is unable to make him happy>
> What if the man is unable to get her pregnant?
> Should she leave because she expected to get pregnant and he is supposed to make her happy in that way?


 We were in that situation for 6 + yrs, it never entered my head to find another model ... we were IN IT together, we did look into adopting for a time...then we didn't need to. 



> What about the wife whose husband's job constantly has him on the move, and he is absent for long periods of time.
> He misses all the important things that is important to her, birthdays, anniversaries, the birth of their child, another child's graduation and so forth.
> Quite obviously this bring her a measure of unhappiness.
> Should she file for divorce because he is unable to make her happy?


 My husband could have made more $$ if he took an over the road truck driving job at one time, we decided against it, we didn't want to be apart, we both agreed it'd be too hard on us... We'd choose having less $$ over this scenario every time ...or me getting a full time job in addition but still being home every night together. 



> Isn't there a part in the marriage vows that state:
> 
> "..._I, ____, take you, ____, to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part_...." [ ? ]


It does, but noone sings up for a sexless marriage or a spouse who grows cold, emotionally unavailable, addictions that rob everything, some devastating stories..... 

My parents got a divorce, it was absolutely for the best....Neither was happy..... Thankfully my father went on to marry the love of his life...my Step Mother 37 yrs ago... and I say this, even though I was a casualty of that relationship....I hated her at one time... but she loves my father more than her own life...

I don't feel people should stay if they are not happy and it beats them down emotionally & mentally. I don't feel this always = cold heartless entitled people either. Not at all. 



> *dallasapple said:* What about if she burns the toast? Or he throws his underwear on the floor?


 There is a huge difference between lacking & ignoring your spouses desired Love Languages and human moments like this... this is a pebble in the sea, not even worth a mention ..but to give a good laugh now & then cause we are so messy or brainless -but life is still beautiful, the sun coming up every morning ...









My husband always amazes me, even when I do the dumbest things... breaking Lawn mower belts running over rocks...getting the Tractor stuck, once I ripped the fender off the car trying to get it out of the garage, he just looked at that...and laughed -even though it caused him work. and me, I laugh when he farts in bed... Life is good! We do need to choose our battles... 



*I THINK the word ENTITLED here is the problem.*..

*1. *Qualified for by *right* according to law"..."
*2.* To give (a human or thing) a title, right, or claim to something; typically something provided by a third party to which the person receiving actually has no part in producing.

When I hear the phase "Entitlement Mentality"... this is always something ugly, it's an ungrateful "free ride" on the back of another...a sucking - like a leech - getting fat while someone else goes without...too often , even though not intentioned, this can grow ungratefulness in the leech.....which is hurtful in relationships, it stomps on the give & take.

Really LIFE itself is a gift... we are guaranteed basically nothing....we are LUCKY if we even have parents who love us... Then we grow up.... we have choices before us, if we care about our own happiness (shouldn't we?)...... we need to make wise choices for living...and in relationships... so our path is smoother...not every road is going to be good for us..Many Detours to set you back even. 

I have this book, read a little of it yrs ago Happiness Is a Choice: Barry Neil Kaufman:  


> Kaufman contends that if you change a belief or *attitude* you can change your life. A decision to pursue happiness, he claims, can improve relations with others: "We can engineer our own responses, choosing love over hate, peace over conflict and happiness over depression."


I am a Hopeless Romantic... I would not enjoy being single...can I admit this about myself without someone saying something is wrong with me... Plenty of people can live by themselves and be content...their own company is ENOUGH...maybe they don't like the hassle of others...

I, however, PREFER IT....I love to share my life with someone... THIS makes me happy.....so I would choose to find a compatible mate who feels as myself......I couldn't have asked for more in my husband.... I wanted children (so did he)... THIS too makes US happy... some people want to travel the world, make a Million dallors, this holds 0 allure for me... We should all seek our own hearts to know & meet up with someone compatible to walk this road of happiness... this is just wisdom , isn't it? 



> *Jasel said* : I also don't think one should be dependant on a relationship for their own happiness in life.


 A healthy romantic relationship is based on interdependence. 



> Healthy Romantic Relationships - Interdependent, not codependent
> 
> Interdependence is about making allies, forming partnerships. It is about forming connections with other beings. Interdependence means that we give someone else some power over our welfare and our feelings.
> 
> ...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous;1567867
A healthy romantic relationship is based on interdependence.[/QUOTE said:


> Thanks Simply!
> Especially for the last quote. It what our marriage counsellor told us many years ago .
> 
> I also liked this quote;
> ...


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

great post SA. I am quite sure by your words you understand where I am coming from. Some of the examples here are just plain silly and immature.

When two people enter a marriage, a partnership, they both need to work at it, not just one giving their all. The difference between us is that I am happy either single or partnered but partnered in a loveless marriage makes even the happiest of people unhappy. At that point it is time to move on.

There is NOTHING selfish about the need or desire for happiness, it is quite ridiculous to say that people must stay in a marriage that is unhappy.



> It does, but noone sings up for a sexless marriage or a spouse who grows cold, emotionally unavailable, addictions that rob everything, some devastating stories.....
> 
> My parents got a divorce, it was absolutely for the best....Neither was happy..... Thankfully my father went on to marry the love of his life...my Step Mother 37 yrs ago... and I say this, even though I was a casualty of that relationship....I hated her at one time... but she loves my father more than her own life...
> 
> I don't feel people should stay if they are not happy and it beats them down emotionally & mentally. I don't feel this always = cold heartless entitled people either. Not at all.


Spot on there. Just because people leave due to extreme unhappiness it does not = entitlement, to say the contrary shows a great lack of understand or empathy.

As usual, great words here SA.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

He's we are untitled to be happy in a relationship. What's the point of being in one if it doesn't make bring you happiness.
We are also entitled to walk away if said relationship is making you miserable!
I think it's a easy as that really!
Why stay if your completely miserable with that person? One life we get, it's too late when we are dead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

This is soooooo simple.
Nobody is supposed to stay in an abusive relationship of any kind.
A sexless marriage can be considered as abusive, hence the issue of happiness does not arise, since you cannot be happy in any type of abusive relationship.
Happiness and abuse cannot coexist.

The issue here is whether people going into a relationship should feel *entitled* to their SO making them happy.

Based on my life's experience, our marriage , lots of other marriages, and this particular story below, my answer is a resounding , no.

Talk about marriage The unified story of SandC

It takes two emotionally healthy people to create happiness in a relationship.
Sexless marriages , abusive marriages ,bad communication , control issues, entitlement issues are all functions of a relationship where either one or both partners are emotionally toxic.

We are not entitled to be happy in a relationship.

A MARRIAGE IS THE SUM TOTAL OF WHAT THE PARTICIPANTS PUT INTO IT.
If both parties work on his and her [ each other's ] needs then how does the issue of a sexless marriage arise?
How can the issue of physical abuse arise?
How can the issue entitlements arise?

Is there a difference between needs and entitlements?
Read the story in the above link, the answers will surprise you!


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## justforfun1222 (Feb 6, 2013)

Wow.. to say that a spouse is not at all responsible for your happiness is just stupid.. you are with them every day, their moods affect yours, if they are always in a bad mood because of outside aspects of their lives they are going to steal your happiness. When things are always in turmoil and out of control, there is no way that you can be happy in that situation. I also agree somewhat that the choices you make for yourself make you happy in life. I don't think people should run at the first sign of unhappiness, but if you have tried all you can to make yourself happy and it is stolen from you constantly... then it is time to get out! Like someone said earlier in this thread, better to be alone and happy then with someone and miserable.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

justforfun1222 said:


> Wow.. to say that a spouse is not at all responsible for your happiness is just stupid.. you are with them every day, their moods affect yours, if they are always in a bad mood because of outside aspects of their lives they are going to steal your happiness. When things are always in turmoil and out of control, there is no way that you can be happy in that situation. I also agree somewhat that the choices you make for yourself make you happy in life. I don't think people should run at the first sign of unhappiness, but if you have tried all you can to make yourself happy and it is stolen from you constantly... then it is time to get out! Like someone said earlier in this thread, better to be alone and happy then with someone and miserable.


:iagree:

An unhappy relationship can not only affect our own happiness, but also our other relationships.

Sitting in an unhealthy relationship that makes us miserable (despite all our attempts to make things better), is rather like sitting on a toxic waste dump and wondering why we're sick.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Happiness is a natural state.

This is why the medical definition of depression (unhappiness,etc.) is a clinical disease that requires medical treatment to become...happy again.

The majority of babies are born happy. They smile, laugh & are joyful.

We are ENTITLED to be happy in our marriage. Many of us take vows that even say it. My husband & I bend over backwards to make each other happy. We do things for each other we don't want to do SIMPLY to make each other happy w/o resentment.


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## Jamie.11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Be happy within yourself. No person can ever dictate that. That’s true happiness. Not a relationship. That’s not permanent.


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