# don't know what to do!



## wherenext (Sep 14, 2010)

this is my first time posting and I wasnt sure if I should put it here or on the relationship discussion forum..? but anyway, heres my story...Im looking for thoughts and insights, advice or whatever...

H and i have always fought over his use of online porn. for years. over and over i would tell him to stop doing it, that it was hurting me, and our marriage... and he would say that he was going to stop. but then pretty soon i would find more, would find the history erased or whatever. ugh. so that has always been an issue for us. after a while i kinda had to just let it go as kind of a guy thing but it still pissed me off that he couldnt stop even though it hurt me.

THEN, about 3 years ago now... i found that he had made a profile on an online dating website, actively trying to find someone to cheat on me with. It said as much in his profile. I found it by complete accident... i was really devastated. he told me he did it one night when we were arguing, was sorry, that nothing came of it, etc. at the time, I really thought, okay...we can get through this. I was so pissed at him, but we worked through things, and were working on building trust back up and all that. i thought things were getting better, and although i still thought about it, I really thought that we could deal without going to marriage counseling, but mostly I was embarrassed. I didnt want to tell anyone because I was afraid they would judge him and judge me for being able to forgive him. I kept it to myself and i know now that was a mistake. I should have went to counseling with him then. I should have faced my feelings instead of burying them.

we moved on with life. things werent great but they werent terrible. I still had trust issues but i figured they would get better with time. we had lots of fights about it but they got to be less and less. about a year ago we had a baby girl.

about a month ago, i found out that H has been smoking behind my back for months. hes been hiding it from me and lying about it. I was so mad i couldnt even see. then the anger wore off and i found myself at ground zero. i feel like he's done it again. he's lied to me, and disrespected all of the work we've done to try to build trust again. I didnt expect this, but everything has come back up for me, all the stuff from before, all the times he's let me down. I feel like i can finally see clearly all the times he's hurt me.

we are in counseling, just started last week. In counseling, i have found out that he lied when he told me that he was only smoking when he drinks, but basically smoking all the time, and ALSO that the whole online dating profile being one night while we were fighting thing was actually going on for 6 months. so he still cant get it right, still cant tell me the whole truth.

I feel like i want a divorce. i really feel that i do. I cant trust him, and i have no clue how to move forward in a relationship where i dont trust him. i would even go so far as to say that i feel like im not even sure if i love him anymore. He knows all of this. He wants to stay together and he wants to work through this. I keep getting hung up on the fact that we've gone through this. it didnt stop him from lying again, whats to stop him from lying in the future? I just feel so tired of all of this, of all the trying. Im so unhappy with him now...and i dont know what to do. I keep thinking of how much happier i would be if i didnt have to be in the same house with him. and I also feel sad thinking that maybe our daughter wont grow up with a family . but then i think - do i want her to think that its ok to have to live with no trust and just put up with stuff? and then I think of what my family would say - how disappointed they'd be because they think you should always just work it out. i feel like i tried to do that and i feel like its not working.

I feel like love, faith, and trust are all connected and kinda the same thing. I feel like its all gone. does it ever come back? will i ever be able to be happy with him again? (i know you guys can tell me that, really but maybe someone has a similar story) any insights or advice?


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## Lpt51173 (Sep 5, 2010)

wherenext said:


> and I also feel sad thinking that maybe our daughter wont grow up with a family . but then I think - do I want her to think that its ok to have to live with no trust and just put up with stuff? and then I think of what my family would say - how disappointed they'd be because they think you should always just work it out.


This where all my confusion is at. All my sadness... thinking of the loss of the family unit. Sorry, not advice for you but just noticing that someone else is having the same dilemma of personal happiness over keeping the family together or not hurting the kids...


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## wherenext (Sep 14, 2010)

can anyone give me some advice on this? Im feeling so lost and desperate. we had some REALLY big fights this weekend and i feel closer to divorce than ever. Id really love some input if anyone out there has any.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

You really have a lot of problems going on in your marriage. Any one of the problems mentioned can be tough. There are at least five problems here. It's safe to say you and your husband are no where on the same page.

I'm curious what the counselor is having to say. The big question is can you ever trust him again? Ultimately you can't have a marriage without trust. Right now your husband isn't working to restore that trust. He does things you find offensive. He continues to do them in the hopes he won't get caught. But then he lies to cover them up. I'm also wondering if some of his habits are now addictions as well. At the very least the lying will have to stop. In addition, he will have to agree to living a transparent life--EVERYTHING in the open. If he isn't willing to do that, I really don't see any reason to stay.


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## wherenext (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks for the reply. We have only been to counseling once so far - H was out of town almost all last week for work. We are going again this wednesday. I went twice without him before that though. Basically the counselor is saying that I am stuck on anger with H and that we need to get past that before we can really fix anything else. He also says that our communication sounds horrible and that there are some real issues there. Which I will agree with. But it almost seems like H is taking this "communication breakdown" issue as almost a cop-out for his actions, and over the weekend we had a huge fight (two actually) and he basically told me that he thinks what he did (porn, online dating, and smoking behind my back) was not that big of a deal and that I should be over it by now, and furthermore, that a) he's not going to ever stop looking at porn, and b) he thinks we never should have had a child and blames me for having a child even though there were issues. He claims to believe that I knowingly lied about trying to get through things to have a child. which is not the case at all. I, in good faith, thought we were working through things, and thought things WERE actually better. I did not knowingly dupe him into thinking I felt better about things. He is also trying to make me feel responsible or guilty (not sure) by asking me questions like "so did you EVER feel comfortable having sex with me?" and "did you ever even want to work things our or were you just lying and going through the motions?" 

both questions made me really really angry because he's taking all my hard work on our relationship and dismissing it as me being fake, which is not true. 

Im not sure if this counseling guy is going to really help us at all but its hard to say after only one session together. I guess I'll know better after wednesday...

I just dont know what the point is if he still wont take full responsibility for how he's hurt me.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

wherenext said:


> Basically the counselor is saying that I am stuck on anger with H and that we need to get past that before we can really fix anything else.


I agree, but that's not going to happen until the husband stops lying. The counselor needs to focus on WHY you are angry. But, then it doesn't sound as though your husband cares. He sounds selfish. Furthermore, he resents his own child. 

You may find reading marriage and self help books to be useful at this point. My favorite by far is "The Five love Languages" by Gary Chapman. Sometimes it just helps to read several different ones.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I feel like love, faith, and trust are all connected and kinda the same thing. I feel like its all gone. does it ever come back? will i ever be able to be happy with him again? (i know you guys can tell me that, really but maybe someone has a similar story) any insights or advice?


First off, faith and trust are synonyms, so yes, they are the same thing - not even kinda. And love is how you treat someone - so it can be related to the other two. It is possible to love someone who does things that hurt you - for example, you may have a child that gets caught shoplifting, or skipping school, or smoking, etc. This does not mean you stop loving that child: instead you take steps to help them stop unwanted behavior. Your love, to them, may appear to be less 'loving' than they want. Most people think that if someone loves you, they make you feel good. Actually, that's confusing a reaction to the actions of someone else with that person's actions. Regardless:

You most certainly can (at this time) trust your husband. It's easy! Trusting someone means that you expect them to behave in a certain way, based upon what you know of them. Your husband has a pattern of lying: is it not quite easy to expect him to lie to you? Then you trust him to lie. Presto! Trust is back!

You say you can't trust him. I say you can - but that you can trust him right now to make choices that hurt you.

The problem is that it isn't TRUST that is the issue, but that your husband is engaging in actions that you do not wish. The issues you face right now are that you have expectations regarding him that he is not fulfilling. And because he is not doing what you expect, you get angry. 

And that anger (although understandable) is most likely getting in the way of any growth that can happen in your marriage. You can react without anger - and once you begin to do so, your husband will have to respond in different ways. 

Keep in mind that there are more than two options: anger and blind acceptance. You can also create an environment in which his actions do not harm you. For example, since porn use is something in which you do not want your spouse to engage, it is necessary for you to make this clearly understood. _No anger is needed!_ All that is needed is a simple statement; "I do not wish to be married to a man who chooses porn."

My guess is that you will object to this because he won't stop. That isn't the point of that statement! If you look at it, you'll see that what it states is a boundary YOU have set up around yourself. It leaves your husband completely free to choose to stop, or to choose to continue. But the consequence of that second choice is that he loses his wife - at least until he wakes up and smells the humus.

Same with any other issue. Choosing to have an affair over his wife is a big one, and you need to deal with that - but there are steps you must take that will seem counter-intuitive. In order to start that process, you have to begin work on yourself: find out why your main reaction is _anger_. In a lot of situations, anger occurs when spouse 'b' does not behave in a way that spouse 'a' has dictated. In other words, it's very often a control issue. Spouse 'a' has a set list of duties and actions that they have assigned to spouse 'b', and react with anger when spouse 'b' will not jump through the proper hoops.

So the first thing to do is take a very close look at your relationship and look for hidden issues that create an environment in which an affair seems to be a viable alternative. 

Actually - step one is to determine whether or not you wish to work at saving your marriage.....everything else hinges on that decision.


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## land2634 (Jun 7, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> First off, faith and trust are synonyms, so yes, they are the same thing - not even kinda. And love is how you treat someone - so it can be related to the other two. It is possible to love someone who does things that hurt you - for example, you may have a child that gets caught shoplifting, or skipping school, or smoking, etc. This does not mean you stop loving that child: instead you take steps to help them stop unwanted behavior. Your love, to them, may appear to be less 'loving' than they want. Most people think that if someone loves you, they make you feel good. Actually, that's confusing a reaction to the actions of someone else with that person's actions. Regardless:
> 
> You most certainly can (at this time) trust your husband. It's easy! Trusting someone means that you expect them to behave in a certain way, based upon what you know of them. Your husband has a pattern of lying: is it not quite easy to expect him to lie to you? Then you trust him to lie. Presto! Trust is back!
> 
> ...


You ability to put things into perspective continues to amaze me... bravo.


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## wherenext (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks for the replies... You've definitely put some things into clear perspective for me... and you're spot on about me shying away from stating my boundaries because I think I can say that till Im blue in the face and he'll stop for a week or two or three but eventually he will start again. I feel like Ive made the mistake of not setting clear consequences before (i.e. leaving if the behavior continues) when really I should have just stated them from the beginning. I dont know if that made any sense. Now he knows that if something hurts me, his only consequence is for me to be mad at him for a little while. I guess Ive set a bad precedent. 

And now im to the point where, yes, I do trust him.. to lie to me and to do things that hurt me. He told me that he will never stop looking at porn. I told him that I was thinking of making that one of my boundaries, he said "well I guess we can talk about it". Im not sure what there is to talk about! 

and ultimately, i guess where Im really stuck is, do I even want to try again? How many more times do we have to go through this lying/hurting cycle? I dont EVER want to go through it again, and when I think of us moving forward with life, I can't imagine that it won't happen again. I have no faith that he will refrain from his lying - no matter what its about. 

ughhhh. we go to the counselor again today. Im a little nervous about it! Ever since our fights this weekend, H is acting like nothing is wrong, like he's in denial about how bad it really is!


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I feel like Ive made the mistake of not setting clear consequences before (i.e. leaving if the behavior continues) when really I should have just stated them from the beginning. I dont know if that made any sense. Now he knows that if something hurts me, his only consequence is for me to be mad at him for a little while. I guess Ive set a bad precedent.


Made perfect sense - I can say with a fair degree of accuracy that we've ALL been in that place at one time or another - and generally, we all still find ourselves there from time to time. Thse nice thing is that it's never too late to start. It's part of the process of growing, or maturing. 0One thing that you have that might work to your advantage is exactly this point! You can say to him, "I haven't really been very clear on this, and I know it's mislead you in the past". Honesty can be extremely powerful.



> And now im to the point where, yes, I do trust him.. to lie to me and to do things that hurt me. He told me that he will never stop looking at porn. I told him that I was thinking of making that one of my boundaries, he said "well I guess we can talk about it". Im not sure what there is to talk about!


Take it as a chance to actually discuss it with him. In essence, what you do is let him know what his choices are - and let him make them himself. He can choose you or porn. The important point is to realize that using it as a threat to _make_ him stop is not right. You can't _control_ him without doing more damage. He should be free to decide. He may not want to stop - but that means that you take steps to remove yourself from the problem. 



> and ultimately, i guess where Im really stuck is, do I even want to try again? How many more times do we have to go through this lying/hurting cycle? I dont EVER want to go through it again, and when I think of us moving forward with life, I can't imagine that it won't happen again. I have no faith that he will refrain from his lying - no matter what its about.


Two issues here:

In all fairness to him, this would be a chance to make the choice without the ambiguity of thinking that you'll 'get over it' if he waits long enough. In the past, he's been led to understand that the worst that happens is s a little anger - which he can easily deal with by deflection and ignoring it. This time, he gets to make a choice. 

Problem is that you'll have to be willing to take steps right away!

The second issue is crucial: why does he lie? It could just be a habit - taking the easy way out of a situation. In this instance, you setting some boundaries will mean that this will no longer work. It could be that he does not feel safe telling you the truth. In that case, you'll need to work at letting him know that you will give him the safety to be honest with you. And that is difficult! For one thing, you cannot respond with anger. If you feel an angry outburst coming on, tell him 'thank you for sharing that with me, I need to have some time to process it' and then hie thee to another room and work through the anger on your own until you can get back to him in a calm state again. 

Regardless of the reason (and there could be others) it is important to find out why he heads to falsehood rather than facing things honestly. A marriage cannot thrive on deception.



> ughhhh. we go to the counselor again today. Im a little nervous about it! Ever since our fights this weekend, H is acting like nothing is wrong, like he's in denial about how bad it really is!


That's a coping mechanism: 'don't let on anything is wrong and people will leave you alone'. His responses will change when you begin to change...


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