# I want out.......am I making the right decision? HELP!



## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

My story is long and complicated. So I'll try and make it short and sweet if I can.

I met my husband at age 15 when my family moved into his congregation (church). I had not liked or known any other boys before him. He approached me the first day we met and we've been together ever since. I married him at age 19....he was 22. We are now working on our 20th year of marriage, 2 middle school aged sons, a house, a dog, 2 cats.....the whole package...... and I desperately want out. 

We were both raised Jehovah Witnesses but left the faith last year. We were both subsequently disfellowshipped from the religion and as a result, our family members who are still Jehovah Witnesses will no longer acknowledge us as family. We have been completely shunned, as well as our children. We now firmly believe the religion to be a cult. We are happy to be free from their religious grip, but are now realizing that our marriage was not based upon love for one another, it was based upon duty and obligation to the church. 

Marrying young in this religion is very common. Most members do not date more than 2 people at most before marrying. We were no exception. I feel like , had I been given the chance to date other people, I would most likely have never chosen to marry my husband. But I lived such a religiously sheltered life, he was the only option available to me at the time when all my other friends were getting married. I even remember the day of my wedding and how I wondered to myself, "what are you doing!?" I only found him slightly attractive physically.....but we hit it off with our likes and dislikes at the time. I am also 2 inches taller than him. I used to be a model....and he....well, isn't really that good looking. I am tired of people asking me "what are you doing with him??" ...or...."how did he score you?"....or...."he doesn't hold a candle to you". I feel badly for him, because he has such low self esteam already, so I never say anything about his looks. 

We had a terrible marriage from the start. We fought almost everyday. He's a quiet man, but when he gets' his buttons pushed, watch out! One time I was histerical, begging him to please tell me why he didn't love me. I was convinced of the fact because since the day I met him, he never bought me flower, took me on a date, or bought me any presents at all. So we had been fighting about that, and other things as well.....and at one point he could not handle it .....and pinned me against the wall by my throat and yelled at me to shut up. From that point on, I never got into his face again. Other than that incident, he's never "touched" me like that again......only thrown stuff at me in the heat of rage, or punched through walls or doors. The incidents are rare....keep in mind , we've been married almost 20 years. I just wanted to give you all an impression of his temperment. 

So anyways....back to him. I'm not kidding when I say he's never bought me anything from his heart.....never taken me on a date...not even when we were "dating".....doesn't say "I love you" unless forced.....never holds my hand.....is not affectionate.....and has never done anything remotely romantic for me. Yet, when you ask him if he loves me, he'll tell you "yes". He just doesn't see it himself. He is addicted to me and the care I provide for him at home.......but he doesn't love me. We carry on day in and day out....as normal....doing the same routine over and over and over. He is blissfully happy with himself as usual, but pays no attention to me. The most I get is a slap on the but and a pathetic kiss on the cheek on his way out the door. 

About a year ago......he had a heart attack at the age of 39. He's overweight , doesn't exercise, and eats poorly. Plus, he has a family history of heart disease....but even the doctor was surprised at his age for a heart attack. Anyways, I nursed him through that. Helped him with everything. Signed him up to a gym to start exercising, made him healthy meals, set up all his doctors appts. And time and time again I'd find fast food wrappers stuffed in his car seats, or find that he only went to the gym ONCE, and he never went to even ONE of his doctors appts. He stopped taking his heart med's. I would call in a prescription for him, and he would never go pick it up. I finally got tired of trying to "save him" and stopped helping him. He's now reverted back to his old ways. The other day, he actually insisted to me that he did NOT have a heart attack, but rather only had a simply case of a "collapsed artery". WTF?? I swear the man is dillusional. I nearly lost it. I had to pull out his medical records to prove to him that he indeed had a FULL BLOWN heart attack with completely blocked ateries. What irritates me about his lack of concern for his own health is that he fails to see how this affects me or the kids. They are likely to inherrit the same heart disease risks and I don't want them to see their father as any sort of example to be like. Nor do I want him dying young from another heart attack and leaving me and the kids with nothing. How selfish can one man be? 

I've left him 4 times during our marriage because of his neglect for himself and for me. When we fight, it gets ugly....so when we had our last big fight and he yelled in front of our kids that he was going to go kill himself and stormed out of the house.....I left him that very night with the kids. I returned 2 weeks later. The last time I "talked" with him about US....he confessed that he thought we "should end it"....meaning he wanted a divorce. For some reason I paniced and guilted him into changing his mind for sake of our kids. Why I did that....I don't know. I should have taken the chance to leave him when I had it. But at that time, we were still Jehovah's Witnesses and a divorce would mean we'd get disfellowshipped and shunned. Ironically, only a few months later was when we left that religion. 

Now that I was FREE to make my own decisions outside of the religious control.....I realized that I now had the opportunity to live my life however I wanted to. I could see an "R" rated movie, I could swear, I could wear a mini skirt, I could celebrate the holidays, I could celebrate my birthday for the first time, etc. etc. etc. I was such an exciting time for us. We both sort of started to bond because we could share all these "first times" together. It was a fun time. Yet in the back of my mind, I also realized that I could divorce him if I wanted to. 

So, I thought about that day and night ever since. Even to this day.....not a day goes by that I don't wake up in the morning or go to bed at night thinking about how much I don't want to be married to him. I now have the freedom to marry someone who loves me and who I truly love in return. Life is so short....why should I waste my life and remain married to this man out of obligation to be a good mommy to my kids?? When do I get to be happy? Am I being selfish? My kids are 11 and 13 years old. I only have about 7 more years till the youngest is 18. Do I stick it out for them for another 7 years? OR....do I leave him now so that they will have the opportunity to see what a happy relationship looks like instead of thinking what my husband and I have is all they can expect from a marriage. I worry this is ruining my sons perceptions. What do I do??

(**sorry for any spelling errors. I was typing pretty fast.)


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Muse said:


> do I leave him now so that they will have the opportunity to see what a happy relationship looks like instead of thinking what my husband and I have is all they can expect from a marriage. I worry this is ruining my sons perceptions.


It sounds like you are projecting your feelings onto your children and representing them as their perceptions. You don't give any indication that they see a terrible marriage. You only tell us you are not happy in the marriage because you don't love your husband, he doesn't buy you things, and he never took you on dates. But that doesn't mean they see the marriage as unrepresentative. I think you mentioned arguments, but practically all marriages have those. You also said your husband is overweight, doesn't take care of himself, has genetic heart problems, and had a heart attack, but none of that has anything to do with how your children perceive the marriage. Besides, it is up to you to make sure your children learn to live healthy lives even if their father doesn't.

You don't need any excuses to leave your husband. If you are not happy, then yours will not be the first divorce in history. Whether you see it or not, you are still looking for outsiders to make decisions for you or to grant you absolution for the decisions that you want to make. I understand old habits are hard to break, and it is probably difficult to trust yourself after living so long under strict rule. But no one here can grant you pardon nor permission. You have to do as you see fit. I can tell you that I would not live in an unhappy relationship. And personally, I think you deserve to be happy, or to at least have the opportunity to seek happiness. What you do is up to you.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

May I ask what prompted you to conclude the religion is a cult?


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

To clarify, my children absolutely do see unhappiness in our marriage. The lack of affection is clearly noted by our youngest and our oldest has had enough of his dad's lazy attitude. He doesn't just ignore me, he ignores the children as well. 

I absolutely do agree that I still often seek approval by others to make my decisions. It is a hard habit to break as you said. I can't help it. I am trying my very best to stand up on my own, but it's difficult to know exactly how to do that when you have no general idea of what's acceptable and what's not in certain situations. Such as with divorce, we were raised to believe that you do not divorce under ANY circumstances unless there is adultry or fornication involved. Nothing else is an "excuse". So I suppose seeking a divorce simply because I no longer love my husband and I want a better life for my kids to follow, is hard for me to do.

The Jehovah's Witnesses ARE a cult. It is a fact. Trust me. I was a JW for 38 years of my life. I know the organization inside and out. Go to any website dealing with the subject of "cults" and the JW's are always mentioned. Furthermore, the "check list" of traits often found in cults is an exact descriptioin of this religion. The religion teaches that EVERYONE on earth will soon die at armagedon EXCEPT the Jehovah Witnesses. They also teach their followers to adhere to their strict medical beliefs claiming they are bible based when they are not. Countless JW's have given up their lives and their childrens lives adhereing to these beliefs and others. They also teach that if someone should choose to no longer be a JW, that their family (moms, dads, siblings, etc. etc.) and friends should shun them completely.....not even acknowledging them with a hello. The reason so many members stick to these beliefs is because the organization teaches that God ONLY talks through them and nobody else. Leaving the organization is equated with turning against God himself. Trouble is .....soooooo much scandal surrounding the religion is hidden from it's members. They are threatened with disfellowshipping if they even "look" upon any material printed or otherwise that speaks against or negatively about the religion. I could go on and on and on.....if you need more proof, let me know.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Susan2010 said:


> May I ask what prompted you to conclude the religion is a cult?


JW's are a extreme religious group. Cult is a fair comment.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

Thank you for agreeing on that. I realize "cult" is a strong word to use....and most don't understand how a fairly mainstream religion could be a cult and still be active and recruiting members in todays society. It's not until you understand the inner workings of how they teach and preach that you begin to realize that they are indeed a CULT.


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## jeffreygropp (Jun 9, 2010)

Muse said:


> Thank you for agreeing on that. I realize "cult" is a strong word to use....and most don't understand how a fairly mainstream religion could be a cult and still be active and recruiting members in todays society. It's not until you understand the inner workings of how they teach and preach that you begin to realize that they are indeed a CULT.


First and foremost, I am a Buddhist so I realize the irony in what I am saying: Any organized religion is a cult.

Second, I read your entire story and I want to ask YOU a question: When you think about spending the rest of your life the way you are, does your heart sink? When you think about freedom, do you get a rise?

It may be time to have "the talk" with him. If you want to continue your routine/marriage, then discuss how he can improve - or lose you. If he makes no effort to change then why should you sacrifice your life?

You get ONE shot, ONE incarnation, ONE LIFE. If this is how you LOVE spending it... by all means continue.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

_Second, I read your entire story and I want to ask YOU a question: When you think about spending the rest of your life the way you are, does your heart sink? When you think about freedom, do you get a rise?_

Answer: Yes, and Yes.....

_It may be time to have "the talk" with him. If you want to continue your routine/marriage, then discuss how he can improve - or lose you. If he makes no effort to change then why should you sacrifice your life?_

We have "talked" about this before. But as I said, we never have talked about it with the freedom to take action. We were always left with no other option other than to work on our marriage. I have personally tried everything, from home marriage counseling (cause he won't go see a stranger to talk about it...), to online counseling, books, etc. I've even supressed certain parts of who I am in the hopes that it would motivate him to change...ie: saying "i love you" alot and hoping he'd get into the routine and do it too. Never happened. 

I've expressed to him in the nicest way possible in what ways I'd like him to try harder in our marriage, but he has consistantly never followed through. It's almost like that first week after our "discussions" he's all into trying harder, and then things either get busy or comfortable and he conveniently "forgets" about what our problems are and what he agreed to try harder at and everything returns to the way it was before. This scenario has happend literally more times than I can count. 

I suppose the biggest reason I posted my "story" was because I was seeking advice on how to get out of this situation. In my heart and mind.....I'm already gone. When he comes home from work I tense up and look for ways to avoid him. I just can't be around him like this anymore. Yet, at the same time, I feel like if we were divorced or even seperated.....even if we had to still live in the same house for financial reasons.....I think I might not mind being around him. That pressure to be his wife would be off my chest and I could relax and just be his friend. I've known this man practically my whole life.....since I was age 15 and he's all I've ever known. On top of that, now that all our families are shunning us because of that stupid religion we left, we are now left with just each other as family. Well, I have some cousins and my brother and his wife that aren't JW's, but they live out of state. My husband has been left with NONE of his family. Even if and when we do divorce, I could not in good conscience leave him entirely. I just couldn't do what our JW family has done to us to another human being. Does that make any sense or does that sound like I'm being weak? I don't know anymore.

I often think of when we do divorce. I know exactly the type of woman I'd like to see my husband with and I'd have no problem setting him up on some dates. Isn't that sick? Here I am .....his wife, and I am thinking like that! It's so bizzare. In fact , if he came home and told me he had cheated on me.....honestly, I would be releived. I would not be mad about the infidelity....maybe the lying....but not the infidelity. When there is no love in a relationship, what do you think is going to happen? 

My real delima is this. I stopped working at age 24 to have my first child. I've been out of the work force ever since being a stay at home mom and raising my kids. Now that I'm faced with so much freedom from the religion we were in, I feel like my time is suddenly running out. I'm 38 and I feel like my life is almost over and I need to HURRY UP and live it to the fullest! It's hard to explain those feelings to someone who hasn't been in this religion, but when your in it, you really don't think about how old you are, or how much time you have left......you simply live day to day hoping and praying that armaggedon will come soon so that god would kill everyone on the earth except the JW's (you) and you could live in the paradise he'd create for his people here on earth and live in it forever without dying. I know how crazy that sounds now.....but that is EXACTLY what we believed as JW's. Now that I have rejected those beliefs, I am kind of lost. What do I do with my life?

So after many months of searching, I finally decided on a career and enrolled myself in classes to get my degree. I will have my degree in about a year and I should be able to get a job imeadiately afterwards. So , I am on a path to regain my life, but I am sooooooo frustrated right now with where I am at the moment. As the title of my thread reads, "I want out.....am I making the right decision?" Clearly if I left now, I would have nobody to go live with, and no way to support myself or my kids financially. My husbands job is on the verge ....yet again...of laying him off, so I don't want to put the stress of child support payments on him either at this time. So , do I just try and relax.....ride this thing out for another year or so till I graduate from school.....or do I tell him all this now? What do I do? Any suggestions??

***sorry....I don't know how to do quoting blocks***


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Muse said:


> In fact , if he came home and told me he had cheated on me.....honestly, I would be releived. I would not be mad about the infidelity....maybe the lying....but not the infidelity.


Yes you would. It's a natural human reaction. Not only would you be angry, you would also be resentful of the very idea that he didn't bother to be the husband you want but yet took up with someone else. You want out but you're going overboard.



Muse said:


> It's hard to explain those feelings to someone who hasn't been in this religion, but when your in it, you really don't think about how old you are, or how much time you have left......you simply live day to day hoping and praying that armaggedon will come soon so that god would kill everyone on the earth except the JW's (you) and you could live in the paradise he'd create for his people here on earth and live in it forever without dying. I know how crazy that sounds now.....but that is EXACTLY what we believed as JW's. Now that I have rejected those beliefs, I am kind of lost. What do I do with my life?


You responded to my question very defensively, but I wasn't challenging you. I simply asked what made you conclude the religion is a cult. In other words, what happened or what was stated or what did you discover, etc. I wasn't questioning whether it is a cult or not. I am very familiar with the JWs (not a member), so it is not crazy at all for you to say those things.

Just slow your roll a little bit. Your mind is running a mile a moment and too fast for you to keep up with because you still did not answer my question. You are 38 years old. All those things you stated about the religion you have known all your life. So I am still asking: What prompted you to conclude the religion is a cult?

And you answered your own question. If you are not marketable and cannot afford to support yourself and your children, then obviously going back to school and finishing your degree is the bright thing to do. So be patient and just remember that no one flies through life. You may have new-found freedom, but you can't fly.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

To be honest Susan....I'm finding your tone and comments to be a tad bit judgemental. Perhaps your not meaning them to come across that way, but they certainly sound that way to me. I'm here on the forum seeking *support*, advice and understanding.....but not judgement. I realize you do not know my full situation, nor my whole story.......so please take that into consideration.


As to what prompted me to believe the JW's are a cult......I believe I did answer that. Not sure why you found my response defensive. That's odd. I was simply explaining to you the facts surrounding the beliefs of the religion and how they are generally recognized as a cult. As for what woke me up one day and caused me to believe I was in a cult.....well.....it's not that simple. It was a process of over a year of doubting the teachings, combined with some incidents that happened in the congregation....which led me to go online and learn TONS of stuff about the dark history and secrets behind the organization that I didn't know about. It's kind of like putting two and two together and one day, it just hits you. I didn't agree it was a cult though till about 2 months after I left the organization. If I had to pick out one singular thing that made the hairs on the back of my head stand up....it would be when I discovered the organization had built a mansion in San Diego back in the 20's that was deeded in trust to the "faithful men of old", or in other words, a handful of biblical apostles that they felt were due to be ressurected by god at any moment to take the lead over the affairs of the earth. That was just ONE of the crazy things I learned. I think the moment I decided whole heartedly that it was a cult was when I learned how many people have died on account of this religion while adhering to their beliefs. Again, it's a very in depth issue. But if you would like to take a glance at some of this stuff....a great websit to visit would be JWFacts makes it as simple as possible to determine if Jehovah's Witnesses have "the truth" Hope that helps.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

My tone? You can hear my tone???
I did not write one word with any kind of tone, nor did I say anything judgmental. You said you seek support, advice, and understanding, but I question what you seek because I offered you all of that and in return you declared, over distance and the clear blue sea, that you can hear my "tone." You read into my words whatever you wanted.

I was trying to explain that "_the facts surrounding the beliefs of the religion and how they are generally recognized as a cult_" was not the answer to my question. I already knew all of that, so I didn't ask about it. However............



Muse said:


> It was a process of over a year of doubting the teachings, combined with some incidents that happened in the congregation....which led me to go online and learn TONS of stuff about the dark history and secrets behind the organization that I didn't know about. It's kind of like putting two and two together and one day, it just hits you . . . when I discovered the organization had built a mansion in San Diego back in the 20's that was deeded in trust to the "faithful men of old", or in other words, a handful of biblical apostles that they felt were due to be ressurected by god at any moment to take the lead over the affairs of the earth. That was just ONE of the crazy things I learned. I think the moment I decided whole heartedly that it was a cult was when I learned how many people have died on account of this religion while adhering to their beliefs.


............is the answer or are the answers to my question. That's what I was looking for, not their practices or doctrine that you gave me. Because you didn't answer the question I asked and answered a different question altogether that wasn't asked, I pointed out in so many words that you're a little hyper and suggested you slow down because you can't go through life that way. I called myself empathizing while offering food for thought.

As I stated, your response............



Muse said:


> The Jehovah's Witnesses ARE a cult. It is a fact. Trust me. I was a JW for 38 years of my life. I know the organization inside and out. Go to any website dealing with the subject of "cults" and the JW's are always mentioned. Furthermore, the "check list" of traits often found in cults is an exact descriptioin of this religion.


............is very defensive, as if if I challenged you or disagreed with you that it's a cult. I didn't, but to say they "ARE a cult" and tell me how well know and send me to another site that confirm your belief suggests that I did challenge or disagree. All I asked was what brought you to the conclusion. I then pointed out that you didn't answer me, and you, yet again, became defensive and accused me of something that does not exist.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

As far as your "tone".....I didn't appreciate your.....yet again....sarcastic response. I would assume that you would be able to understand what I was trying to say in regards to your tone. Obviously we have differing viewpoints......perhaps you could kindly "help" other people on this forum and leave my case to someone else to offer advice on. I reallly didn't come here to debate religion, my beliefs or my reasons for leaving it. My issues are with my marriage and that is what I wish to discuss. I'm not a hyper person.....I'm a grown ass woman that's been through hell and back over the past 20 ****ing years and I don't need someone telling me that I need to slow down. What I'm looking for is some suggestions on the best way to get out of this situation.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I think you are in a good place to lay out some boundaries. First of all, you know in a year you will have your degree. So why not say to your husband this: "I will finish my schooling in a year and be able to find work. If our marriage does not improve by ____ , I will then start the process of divorce." Talk about what actions you can both take to work on it and go from there. This way at least you both know what is happening, and no one can say they didn't know.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

Thank you Dawn. Setting a deadline is a good idea. I do feel a strong need to talk to him about this, but I am scared that he will not feel the same about it and leave me now......at a time when I'm unable to support myself. ((sigh))) 

Any suggestions on how to "cope" with it meanwhile.....IF....I decide to not tell him right away and instead wait till after I get my degree? I just feel like I want to run away, but I now I can't. It's so hard to be in this position of wanting to leave but being bound by my financial situation. Ugh.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Muse said:


> What I'm looking for is some suggestions on the best way to _get out of this situation_.


Well, if that's all you're asking, then the answer is simple: leave.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

IF you decided not to tell him, and just use him for a paycheck until you can make it on your own, you will have your hands full. I will never advise someone to "use" their spouse and if your H was in here wanting the divorce but wanted to "use you" for daycare and so he wouldn't have to pay, I would say the same thing. 

The whole point of setting a time table for you two is to put effort into fixing it. A lot can happen in a year. Good or bad. The point is to set down guidelines. Several people here suggest sitting down once a week to talk about how things are going. Some people suggest once a day. It all depends on your specific marriage. 

There are programs out there to help single mothers and to help with the financial burden of raising kids. If you are already set on divorcing then I think its only fair to let your spouse know, and then see what comes of it. I don't believe in hiding motives. The thought that he might leave you first, makes me think neither of you are happy, so maybe if you bring up a time table he will want to go to counseling, either for the marriage or for the divorce.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

You have stated and asked so many different things and some of it rather contradicting, but you don't see that as your mind running a mile minute. You also can't see that you don't need people telling you how to handle this situation. If you want to leave, then just go. It would be better than using your husband until you are financially able to support yourself.

There is aid through social services (or whatever it's called in your area) for mothers and children under 18 (or 19). You will receive food stamps, housing cost, and a small monthly stipend. 

If you divorce him, you will receive child support and probably be eligible for spousal support also. 

There are also housing programs that pay rent until you get on your feet. Some of them reduce your rental costs by paying a large portion of it for you.

There are employment programs that prepare you for the working world and help you find a job.

Most universities have a work program, where you work sometimes and attend classes sometimes, while receiving credits for working.

You will have find what is available in your area.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

_IF you decided not to tell him, and just use him for a paycheck until you can make it on your own, you will have your hands full. I will never advise someone to "use" their spouse and if your H was in here wanting the divorce but wanted to "use you" for daycare and so he wouldn't have to pay, I would say the same thing._


I understand what you saying.......BUT....do you seriously believe that I have no rights what-so-ever to put myself through school for one year without working? I spent 20 years of MY life taking care of him....gave up MY career, clean house, make the meals, do the shopping, run all the errands, take care of all our medical needs, .....basically I do everything but wipe his ass.....for 20 years....and suddenly I"m not entitled to anything?? I think that's a bit unfair. I was never paid a paycheck, in fact I rarely buy myself anything, go anywhere or do anything. I think I deserve to put myself through school for one year while he supports me for it. 

Regardless of reasons, I don't think he'd have any issues with it. He knows I've given up my life for him and that he owes me lots of things. That's no secret.

I just think it's a bit one-sided to say that someone is "using' their spouse for something.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think it was the way you worded it.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Muse said:


> I do feel a strong need to talk to him about this, but I am scared that he will not feel the same about it and leave me now......at a time when I'm unable to support myself. ((sigh)))





Muse said:


> Regardless of reasons, I don't think he'd have any issues with it. He knows I've given up my life for him and that he owes me lots of things. That's no secret.





Susan2010 said:


> You have stated and asked so many different things and some of it rather contradicting, but you don't see that as your mind running a mile minute.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Part of what occurs in these forums is a venting, a stream of consciousness. It is not a court of law exchange between lawyers.

Cherry picking a few choice comments for evidence of a an argument isn't always the best tactic for responses. 

Muse--you hang in there! Your path is true.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

No, no no honey. You are misunderstanding me. That is why I said "use" because it was for lack of a better word that more matched the situation. I don't agree with not telling him, only because then it would feel more like "using" him. I am a stay at home mom also, I completely understand your dilemma. But that is also what spousal support and child support are for. To support you so you can get your feet on the ground. That is why I would encourage telling him and providing him with your own deadline of hey, if it can get fixed by ___ then we need to initiate a divorce. To give you time to finish your schooling and to get anything you might need to get done finished. 

I too have given up my career and done everything in my household that has to be done for years. BUT my husband does work all day too. He deploys for unknown amounts of time. He has a lot of responsibility. So he has supported myself and our children as well. Just in a different way.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

michzz said:


> Part of what occurs in these forums is a venting, a stream of consciousness. It is not a court of law exchange between lawyers.
> 
> Cherry picking a few choice comments for evidence of a an argument isn't always the best tactic for responses.
> 
> Muse--you hang in there! Your path is true.


I'm not cherry picking anyting. I mentioned it to note she can't get things done or solve her problem that way, and she defensively denied it and accused me. You addressed my third mention of what she continuously does. How can anyone understand her or help her if she keeps changing to contradict what she previously stated? She keeps being misunderstood.


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## wltdnfaded (Jul 28, 2010)

Muse, I got your back. JW IS a cult. And anyone who wants to argue with me, go right ahead. You ain't gonna change my mind.

I'm gonna come right out and say it-- the most important person in your life is YOU. Because when YOU are #1, it gives you the strength and fortitude to be a good mother to your children. I'm not talking about self-absorbtion, I'm talking about taking care of yourself. When you care for yourself, you can care for others in the manner that you want. And anyone who tells you to put everyone ahead of you is selfish. We as women are told this our whole lives-- and I, personally am DONE with that BS.

Susan, with all due respect, you ain't Muse, you're not in her situation, and if you know ANYTHING about JW's, you wouldn't ask such a question. Flame me, go ahead, BRING IT.

Muse, if you're unhappy, make yourself happy. There's an amazing world out there, and you deserve to experience it. You CAN be a good mom, and a good person, and NOT have to be guilted into being a "good wife." But (there's always a BUT), don't do it willy nilly. Get counseling and therapy, learn who you are as an individual, not just someone's wife or mother or even a WOMAN-- as a HUMAN BEING. Start to plan financially (I can't emphasize this enough). Open a seperate savings account. Pay off any debts ASAP. 

Lemme tell you something-- once you turn 40, your world changes so drastically, it's scary and amazing at the same time. I found myself looking back on my life and saying, "Everything I did was for someone else. I've been on this planet, breathing and walking and LIVING, for 4 decades. That's a LONG time, no matter what anyone says. My body is changing, my mind is changing, my heart is changing." You are a WOMAN, not a girl anymore. You have NO idea what kind of strength that brings you. Go grrl. 

And Susan...ah, ya know, I'm not even going to bother.


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

wltdnfaded said:


> Susan, with all due respect, you ain't Muse, you're not in her situation, and if you know ANYTHING about JW's, you wouldn't ask such a question. Flame me, go ahead, BRING IT.


It appears that like Muse, you didn't understand my question either, so why would I flame you when frankly, I agree with you. I won't bother trying to state my question a third (4th?) time, but the reason I asked was because I am curious to know why so few other JWs ever come to the same conclusion. I hoped she could offer some methods for discovery or information for the sake of discussion. Maybe you, again like Muse, should read my question and explanation again before you, again like Muse, accuse me any more.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

_I am curious to know why so few other JWs ever come to the same conclusion. _

First off.....how do you know so "few" other JWs come to this conclusion? Ignorance....that's how. IT IS A CULT.....and I don't wish to enlighten you as to "why" I think so a 3rd (4th?) time. If you need to know, I suggest you visit other forums online that discuss this issue. Google a great way to find these forum.....just type in "ex jehovahs witness forum" and ask your question there. I dare you. 


Thank you wltdnfaded. I'm glad that there is someone here who understands. I know it may sound pathetic and immature of me to be perplexed at what to do or how to do it... about my marriage since I am a grown woman, but it does have alot to do with how I was raised and the religious oppression I've been living under ever since. It's not as easy as someone telling me to "just leave" or "just do it". There's so much more to it than that. 

About what you said in regards to turning 40.....I feel like I'm going through that stage now. I believe it has alot to do with why I feel so anxious to move on with my life asap. That and the fact that I feel I've wasted so much of my life devoting it to the religion and to other people.....but never to myself. Time for me.


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## sweetpea (Jan 30, 2007)

Reminder- treating others with respect and dignity is #1 on the forum guidelines for Talk About Marriage. She is asking for help in her marriage and not in her spirituality . This is a warning for everyone. Individuals will be banned if unable to follow the forum guidelines. Thanks, Jen


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## bestplayer (Jan 23, 2010)

wltdnfaded said:


> Muse, I got your back. JW IS a cult. And anyone who wants to argue with me, go right ahead. You ain't gonna change my mind.
> 
> I'm gonna come right out and say it-- the most important person in your life is YOU. Because when YOU are #1, it gives you the strength and fortitude to be a good mother to your children. I'm not talking about self-absorbtion, I'm talking about taking care of yourself. When you care for yourself, you can care for others in the manner that you want. And anyone who tells you to put everyone ahead of you is selfish. We as women are told this our whole lives-- and I, personally am DONE with that BS.
> 
> ...


...Lemme tell you something--* once you turn 40, your world changes so drastically, it's scary and amazing at the same time. I found myself looking back on my life and saying, "Everything I did was for someone else. I've been on this planet, breathing and walking and LIVING, for 4 decades. That's a LONG time, no matter what anyone says. My body is changing, my mind is changing, my heart is changing." You are a WOMAN, not a girl anymore. You have NO idea what kind of strength that brings you. Go grrl. *.........




That sounds like typical mid life crisis fog


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## loveless1 (Aug 16, 2010)

as a man going through the same thing right now on the other side ..be honest!!!!! communication is key with out it youll waste even more of your lives you BOTH desevre to be happy in life good luck.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

OMG.....having a really bad day today. Things between us have gotten worse. You can cut the tension in the air with a knife. Mostly, it's due to me and my feelings about our relationship. It causes me to be very short with him, and I'm less able to cope with his personality. It's so hard to explain. 

I swear....I barely made it through this past weekend. It was really really hard. This morning was the last straw. I just cannot take it anymore. But what do I do....where do I go? I swear..if I had money right now and a job, I would be packed up and out the door. I know I can't do that.....so I came here to vent. Hope you all don't mind.

I'm a very loving and good person. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but honestly, I give myself to everyone.....to him, my kids, my friends.....everyone and I always place myself last. I just NEVER get any help reciprocated towards me by him. Case in point.....this morning.....we are on an extremely tight budget so I have to plan out our food and expenses for the week very carefully. If we don't watch it, we could easily run out of money before the next paycheck. So, I had let my kids and my husband know this morning to please ask me before they just eat anything in the kitchen as we may need it for something like dinner recipes or school lunches. Being the giving and unselfish person I am, I often will eat the lesser favorite snacks or foods in the house so that my kids can eat well. My husband however only thinks of himself. This morning he went into the kitchen to pack his lunch for work. I saw him grabbing things I had bought for the kids school lunches. So I told him, "Don't take anything I bought for the kids lunches, they need that stuff and I only bought enough till the next payday." So he completely looses it and yells, "FINE! THEN I GUESS I'LL JUST STARVE THEN!" So I told him, "You don't need to be so dramatic about it. Calm down. There is plenty of other things I bought that you can take for your lunches I just didn't want you taking the things I bought for the kids." So he says, "THERE'S NOTHING TO EAT! SO I'LL JUST TAKE THESE CHIPS AND HOPE THAT IT GETS ME THROUGH THE DAY!".....Seriously, at this point, I'm just beside myself. What a drama queen he's being! So I then proceeded to point out to him the MANY MANY things he could make for his lunch. I even told him he could take this leftover sandwhich I had saved for myself to eat today. Of course he didn't take it, he just ranted and raved as he stormed out the door to work. Never said goodbye to the kids. He can be the MOST immature, self-centered person I know sometimes. And it's at those times......when he's thinking more of himself than his kids or me....that I just cannot take it anymore. Why is it that a mom can give up everything for her family, but a husband (at least my husband) only focuses on themselves 99% of the time?!! AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

This type of selfish behavoir went on all weekend. I found myself fixing the sprinklers in the yard, mowing the lawn, washing the cars, painted my sons bedroom, and even moved some furniture.....all while still making the meals, running errands, doing the grocery shopping, just to name a few things. What did he do all weekend? Played video games and watched TV. He did venture outside at one point to tinker with his car, but that was about it. I'm tired ......so very very tired of being the person that "wears the pants" in the family. I want to be treated with some respect.....with some sort of gratitude for the things I do around here. My husband has been this way for as long as I've known him. He thinks of himself, what HE wants to do, and nothing more. He's never taken me on a date, never cooked me dinner, never bought me a surprise gift, never purchased me flowers unless I've BEGGED for them, never never never....I could go on and on. 

When do I get what I want out of this life? Why do I feel so obligated to stay with him just so I can spare my children the pain of a divorce? I hate feeling so trapped all the time. I just want a happier life for all of us. I feel like we are torturing each other living like this. But is the grass greener on the other side? I'm terrified to find out. So many things run through my head. I cringe at the thought of entering the dating scene, single and approaching 40 with 2 kids. I fear being alone. I've never been alone.....moved straight out of my parents house and married him. I don't know........I'm just having a REALLY BAD day today.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

LOL> Sounds like my life about three years ago. And if just changed recently. I know those days, where you just wonder why you do so much to be treated so bad. 

Just be honest honey. Tell him you want out. Tell him you don't think this can be fixed. Talk about you needing to finish school and show him how that can benefit him as well. talk about some rules to keep the peace until all that can happen. I am not going to lie to you, had my marriage not taken a drastic turn about 6 months ago, I would have been out the door. I share in your pain and I realize that "everyone" can't change for the better and that I just got lucky my H saw the light before it was too late. 

P.S. if you have any budgeting tips please PM me, I am always looking for new ways to save money LOL.


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## JJ123 (Aug 14, 2010)

Muse, I didn't read everything in the post but I can relate to you in a way. I didn't have the opportunity to stay home with my kids I had to work all the time. I had my kids and right back at work. But I always felt I was working for my husband. I did manage to save money for a down payment on a house by working a second job. I worked so much I had a breakdown and now have gone back to school. But since we have been together I have gone without. My husband doesn't spend much money on me. Even my wedding band he didn't pay for it was his Mom's. He has never bought me jewelry and in the last four years I have got nothing from him in gifts. I buy him stuff and he rarely uses it. I think you are a lot like me, you want to get out there and start to enjoy life but because of school are not able to leave.I know of other women who left their husband after graduation and I always thought low of them. Now you and me are in the same boat, we just want to enjoy life again but we might just have to wait a little longer.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

Well, I said it outloud today. I spoke with my sister in law and I admitted to her that I no longer wanted to be married to my husband. Saying it outloud to someone who knows me was like a big weight had been lifted off my shoulders. As if I just needed someone to know what I was going through. It's hard keeping this all to myself. So, after a very long 3 hour conversation, I have come to the decision that I will "have a talk" with my husband after our sons upcoming birthday party. The party is only 3 weeks away and it's his very first birthday party ever (since we could not celebrate them as jw's). So I really don't want this to overshadow his special day. I may wait a bit more after the party just so that it doesn't get associated with the birthday at all. I want it to be the best memory my son has.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Hang in there!

Might want to get a free consultation with a lawyer so you know your rights before you have the talk.

Plus, xerox all pertinent records and stash them somewhere he doesn't control.

Pay stubs, bank, mortgage, retirement plan, health records, insurance, etc. Have a copy of it all!

Even if you end up not parting, you should do it anyway/

And if you do part, you need these things for asserting your rights to spousal and child support.


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## talora (Aug 16, 2010)

I read your whole story. Ironically I just signed onto this site for the first time and yours is the first post I read. 

I was also raised a Jehovah's witness and was married young to the first man I dated. I was 18. We were married for 15 years and because of a severe drinking problem I was forced to divorce him. It took quite a bit of courage, but it wasn't because of the religion, it was because I knew my life would change.

I think you are skeptical because you know your life will change as well, and change is scary. You already know what you want to do.

I did not have the same experience as you with the religion. I absolutely do not view it as a cult. If you resist the things required to be a Jehovah's witness then I imagine you would feel that way, but goes for any religion. I was not disfellowshipped because I divorced. In fact quite the opposite, people I hadn't heard from in years came to support me, as I no longer lived as a witness. That never meant I don't believe everything I know as true, I just decided that I am spiritual and things like celebrating holidays seem more like traditions to me.

Jehovah's Witnesses are a warm and loving people, but I guess everyone has different perceptions by way of their experiences.

I am much happier without my husband and he went on to remarry as did I. My husband is really a wonderful man, except for some things we do not agree on. Which is what brings me here, since I am trying to figure out how we can deal with our issues.

I highly recommend moving on. Fear of the unjknown is the only thing holding you back. I promise from experience here, it is the best thing you can decide for both of you. He will most likely be happier in the long run as well.

Good luck to you!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I want to share one thing about how your husband reacted to the food thing. Mind you, I am NOT excusing the way he is generally. This is specific about that incident.

He is the sole breadwinner. He KNOWS that he is totally responsible for providing shelter and food for his family. He KNOWS that he isn't doing a good enough job and that you have to scrimp and save just to have enough food every day. And he HATES himself for his inability to 'be a man' and provide for you. So when you brought it up the way you did, he was ashamed that you are having to have a fight about this, when it is HIS responsibility, his FAULT that you're having to have it at all. So he reverts to how he dealt with things as a child. 

When we are under duress, our brain goes immediately to the most well-worn neural pathways, the ones we used the most - because they worked. But they worked as a child. We often fail to think it through as adults and find better, more adult ways to deal with stress. 

If you could find a way to talk to him about this and find a joint solution, you have a chance to have a better life together, or at least until you can afford to split up.

On to finances. What kind of skills do you have? I'm trying to think of ways for you to earn extra money.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Muse -- I am glad to hear that you told someone what is going on. Sometimes we have to say it out loud to another person to even realize we truly want it. Hopefully your SIL was supportive of whatever you decide!

I agree with Turnera about his reasonings for blowing up over something so miniscule. I just remember being there and I don't wish it on anybody. Keep posting here to vent, or whatever you need to post for. Closure, venting, crying and anything else.


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## Muse (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks you guys......those were some really nice comments. 


In terms of "why" he blew up, I absolutely agree that those are valid reasons for his behavoir. Only one part I may not agree with and that is where you say that he hates his inability to be a man. My husband has been in the same dead end job since we married. He started out with the job by attending a basic night school program to learn how to do this skill. Since then though, he should have advanced by now to a full blown manager in his field. But he hasn't . Why? Because he's L-A-Z-Y. Multiple times he's applied to take a test you must pass to get licensed in his field. We've plunked down hundreds of dollars over the years for him to take the state board test. Each and every time, when he should have been studying to make sure he passed it......he never did. He'd "act" like he was going to study before the test , but he never actually got around to it. So every test he's taken .....he's failed. Gee...I wonder why? When he went to take his last test, I just finally told him that this was the last one. I was tired of paying all this money for him to take these tests and he doesn't ever study for them. 

A few months ago, my friend gave us a really good lead on a job. It was a swanky upscale company that was opening a new location near us and they were looking for someone with my husbands skills. They paid better and the location was closer to home. Jobs in his field are extremely scarce right now because of the realestate economy. I was pretty excited about the opportunity because it was rare. He said he'd call the guy and apply for it. He even got out his old resume and updated it. But.....did he ever call? NO. He completely passed up the opportunity. When I asked him why, he gave me all these hypothecial excuses as to why he thought it may not work out. None of them were valid excuses.....just **** he made up to avoid it. So if he's getting upset because he cannot provide for his family, then that's his own damn fault. 

In terms of what my "skills" are.....I have a business I run online. However, due to the economy, it has taken a nose dive and is not making us any money anymore. Which is why I enrolled in school. I still look for work everyday. Something I can do from home. I have no time to get a regular job. I go to school from 8am-3pm tuesday thru saturday. Get home just in time to go pick up the kids from school. The only days I have free (sunday/monday) I use to get things done (errands, chores, household duties, etc.). So, I'm afraid I am not much help in earning an income, but I do still try to look and hope I find something.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Even if it is of his own doing, you have to approach it as a "we are a team" attitude just to keep from starting another fight. I know it seems like that would be fake, and it might be, but look at the longterm benefits of that. Calm the waters while you are in school so you can actually concentrate on school. 

I am fixing to start college here in about two weeks, so I understand your time table ( I have the same schedule just about) so maybe something as simple as sitting down together and seeing what can be downgraded to make life a little easier. Can the cable bill be cut any? Can car insurance be investigated to see if any other companies have a lower rate?? Etc. etc. If you have already done all this then I have not a clue LOL.


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## FUEGO (Aug 17, 2010)

Hello Muse! I do understand where your coming from. I am familiar with the Jehovah Witness faith because my mom is a witness. Now the thing with me is that she was the only one in the family that was one so it's a little different from what your going through with your family. As far as your situation goes, I think that you definitly need to speak with your husband if you haven't already and see where he stands on everything. I am a man myself and sometimes we fail to realize what we are doing to our wives. I do agree you probably got married to soon and also didn't have a chance to date around to see what you wanted. I would first talk with your husband and see if he may feel just as you do. If he does than you have your answer.


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