# Abysmal sex



## Talktalk (Jan 2, 2011)

I love my wife of 8 years. I still find her reasonably attractive. I have been faithful to her and that is probably not going to change.

The problem is that our sex life is dismal. She loves sex, but is 'absent' during it. I've come to understand that this has always been the case, so it's not just a matter of dullness due to over-familiarity.

She is not a selfish person, but during sex, her own enjoyment is everything. When she does touch me, it's absolutely not erotic and has no idea what she is doing, though I have tried to talk with her over the years. I encourage her when something is going well, but this seems to have little enduring effect.

She is highly sensitive about how she acts in bed and almost anything I say is taken as criticism. She thinks that she knows what she's doing and doesn't need help. I'm ashamed to say that somewhere along the way, I simply stopped trying to improve this and just accepted that sex is not good. Yes, I know it's a depressing thought.

She would like to have sex more often, but I find it a chore. I have a strong sex drive and masturbate regularly. I believe that if I didn't, then I would need to find sex elsewhere. I'm sorry that this sounds like the logic of a quitter. 

I can't even remember what good sex feels like. In my distant memory, I recall working with ex-partners to make the experience memorable. I recall feeling that whatever effort I made would be reciprocated and this made the enjoyment more acute.

Now I feel stuck. She would like more sex and is not likely to be satisfied with this infrequency any longer. If I try to talk with her about it, there will be tears. 

I hope I don't sound like a horrible person. I'm just trying to be clear in my own mind so I can try to do something constructive. Any comments welcome. Thanks in advance.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Couple questions and comments...

First, what do you mean by "not good"?

Second, have you tried watching porn together? If you want new positions or techniques, find some examples that you can watch together. Or erotic stories that you read together, or pictures... Basically, use something else to teach her what you think would feel good, rather than you "criticising" her.

Third, one thing I've learned in the past few months is that sometimes tears might be worth it. An uncomfortable discussion about sex now beats a much more uncomfortable discussion later about separation or divorce.

C


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## unsure27 (Jan 1, 2011)

!My husband and I were not having sex often enough for me either I asked him about it and he said it was because I was so controlling in every other aspect of our lives that he was able to control this and he also felt like it was a chore sometimes because he had to put forth all the effort. After talking it through I started to understand where he was coming from. Believe me we still have MANY problems to work out but.....
From your wifes point of view maybe the positions that require her to do most of the work just dont feel good, or maybe shes not comfortable being in such positions. She could be insecure about her body or how she is moving. I know alot of women say they love to be on top but for me I just find it painful, and its hard for either person to finish if one cant really get into it.
The worst thing you could do is make it sound like shes doing something wrong. My husband told me one time that I didnt know what I was doing in a certain position and I was so crushed I stopped the sex right there and cried. I dont recommend the porn because my husband suggested watching it so I could learn a few things and it felt like he was basically saying he wanted me to act like a porn star in bed and I wasnt good enough. We do watch porn together on occasion but I dont want to have my skills compared to theirs.
You could always ask her what she wants and how she wants you to do it and then maybe she will feel better about asking you how to do something. Ask her about fantasies and then tell her yours. maybe that will help. Good luck


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You may be right on the porn, but I wasn't talking about stopping, rewinding, and lecturing during the movie...  Just watching and enjoying. And there's a lot of porn that isn't "porn star" porn.

C


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Have you considered a sex therapist?


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## Jaz (Dec 29, 2010)

PBear said:


> Third, one thing I've learned in the past few months is that sometimes tears might be worth it. An uncomfortable discussion about sex now beats a much more uncomfortable discussion later about separation or divorce.
> 
> C


Second that!



i know I would greatly appreciate any feedback hubby gives me. it would sting a tad to know i'm not inherently competent but i'd definitely get over it. long term results require pain >=3
on the other hand, there's something to say about being overly critical and specific about what you want in bed. sometimes it's good to just lie back and enjoy whatever's coming right? how "not good" are we talking about here?


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## Just1Man (Dec 9, 2010)

She "loves sex" but she is "absent", she is "not selfish" but "her own enjoyment is everything". 

I'm confused. Not the first time but lets just roll with it. 

Get specific. What does she do wrong? 

Example: I was with an older woman one time that used so much suction during a blow-job that it hurt and I actually lost my erection (but only for a minute) ! She was experienced sexually but didn't understand that I was not her ex-husband and I don't like the feeling of my **** being pulled off with her mouth.

Anyway. Have you ever tried being aggressive with her, pulling her hair, holding her tight during sex, pinning her down (in a dominate sexy way, not a rapist way). I've done this in the past with girls and they loved it. Constricting their movements, controlling them just enough for them to explode then letting them loose to ravage you. It's a good thing 

I know you might not be happy with what she is doing but, it could be worse. My wife has barely touched me in 12 days. Hugs and pecks on the cheek count as touching. She brags to everyone how good of shape I am in but apparently has no sexual interest in me. It's a mess, just read my post if you are interested.


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## Serena (Jan 2, 2011)

Ask her if she would consider using a vibrating bullet on you when she is giving you a BJ. She could put that under your scrotum, pushing in and up a little. That would give you quite a bit of pleasure. I didn't know what to do with the bullet, but my husband & I together tried it out and liked the results. Edible / flavored things like massage creams and lotions have helped, too. It's good that she knows what she wants, but she should want the same for you. Sex is give and take. I, too, am a little confused about some of your wording.


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## Talktalk (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks very much for these replies. This is really helping me to get a clearer image of what the problems are.

I made a few observations which may have sounded contradictory. My wife is not a selfish person, but in bed, she thinks almost exclusively of her own pleasure. I still don't fully understand. When I say that she's 'absent', I mean that it's like she withdraws into her own mind so she can savor the experience. No fun for me of course.



> First, what do you mean by "not good"?


I feel that she is in a world of her own during sex. I believe she wants to enjoy sex as much as possible and is just going to empty her mind of all 'distractions', including how I happen to be feeling. In the past, when I was used to making 'my best moves', she would enjoy it so much that she'd just lie there and luxuriate in it all. I was accustomed to more interaction from partners. I got little back here, so whether I consciously decided to or not, I'm afraid that my effort declined in response.

In foreplay, her touch is either rough and clumsy or glancing and clumsy.

In the former case, she has even made me wince and when I've carefully explained the reason for this, she has replied that other men in her past hadn't been so sensitive. Clearly she has nothing to learn here.

For the latter, she may randomly flap a hand around an erogenous zone with no thought at all and paying no attention to my reactions. It's more pointless and irritating than erotic. 

Her touch is completely disconnected from what I may be feeling. I send encouraging signals when something is good (and I look for signals to tell me if I'm getting something right or not). 

Also, she repeats actions which I've told her I dislike since before we were married. There is almost no learning at all. For instance, she thinks that heavy breathing down the neck is sensual. I will happily deliver this since she likes it, but I intensely dislike receiving it. I shiver and ask her to stop and she is always upset, even after all these years.

In writing this, I realize that I've never defined the problem so clearly before. 



> Third, one thing I've learned in the past few months is that sometimes tears might be worth it. An uncomfortable discussion about sex now beats a much more uncomfortable discussion later about separation or divorce.


Yes, you're absolutely right. I intend to address this now.



> She could be insecure about her body or how she is moving.


Self-consciousness could be part of the reason why she has no 'feedback loop' and doesn't empathize with me at all during sex. 



> You could always ask her what she wants and how she wants you to do it and then maybe she will feel better about asking you how to do something. Ask her about fantasies and then tell her yours. maybe that will help.


This is a good approach and I feel like I've tried this before. It's led to me showing her what I like, but she doesn't retain this and when I mention it later, she reacts like she's being criticized. 



> Have you considered a sex therapist?


Not seriously, yet. The main reason I made this post is to try to define the problem properly in my own mind first and to see if we can do something about it (following the helpful comments and advice I've received here). I'm guilty of just letting this go because of my frustration and I can make a new effort to resolve it. 



> i know I would greatly appreciate any feedback hubby gives me. it would sting a tad to know i'm not inherently competent but i'd definitely get over it.


I feel this way too. If I'm missing something, I'd rather know so that I can correct it. My wife has not viewed sex like this in the past.

In conclusion, I think I need to get agreement from her that we will try to improve together, which means listening to each other without taking offense. The alternative, as mentioned by PBear, is that neither of us gets what we want and marriages don't last like that.

I will try to make her more aware of what we are doing in bed, so that she at least tries to be conscious of what she's doing. Maybe I should pick up a sex guide and use that as a way to get us talking. Any recommendations?

Thanks again to all who replied - it's really helped to analyze the problems like this.


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## Serena (Jan 2, 2011)

Good, honest open lines of communication is the best tool! She needs to be willing to listen, but you have to be clear about what you want. Do hand-over-hand assistance so she can learn what touches you like. When she starts to breathe on your neck, guide her to another area. Try whispering that you wish that she would direct her attention somewhere else. Whispers in the throws of passion are attention-getters, at least for me they are. Hopefully she will not take your suggestions as criticisms and will be appreciative of learning how best to please you. Above all, just try to loosen up and have fun with the learning experience.


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## Talktalk (Jan 2, 2011)

Just1Man, thanks for taking time to comment. I read your own thread and your situation sounds hugely frustrating.

I have no doubt that you are a problem solver. We do need to talk about these problems and it's either impossible or undesirable to go into this detail with close friends. I have exactly the same motives for making my post here.

Best of luck with breaking down the barriers you are facing.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You do have some leverage here - she wants more sex. If you can kindly and gently tell her that you would be glad to have more frequent sex with her but the quality needs tweaking. 

Try starting all over again. Take it from the top, talk about every aspect of your sex lives, no judgments. 

You can start by making one night about her and one night about you to explore what you each like. On your night she has to stay present and let you lead her to do the things you like and you do like wise. 

Then slowly work up to blending the two. The difference being that each person must focus on the pleasure of the other. She will relearn to enjoy sex that is more connected. Oh and let her know every one is different, she cannot use her previous experiences to dictate what you like.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The suggestion below is a good one. There is a "game" that we sometimes play which is exceptionally fun. We call it "better one/better two". This is how an optometrist converges on an ideal lens prescription for you. And it is how "we" converge on an ideal touch pattern. 

One of us does something, and then we do it a little different. Sometimes with some verbal guidance. So the variable might be speed, or how "hard"/soft. Finger tips vs finger nails. Direction - up down, diagonal, sideways. And always the softly spoken question: better one, better two. One hour of that game is not only quite enjoyable for both of us, it is highly educational for the "giver". 

And I am going to guess you may have to alternate nights open ended with your W. She does not seem to know how to multi-task "giving" with receiving pleasure. Which is ok. It will be far better than what you have now. 




Catherine602 said:


> You do have some leverage here - she wants more sex. If you can kindly and gently tell her that you would be glad to have more frequent sex with her but the quality needs tweaking.
> 
> Try starting all over again. Take it from the top, talk about every aspect of your sex lives, no judgments.
> 
> ...


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