# New here and need advice...



## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

Let me give you some information about myself and my situation. I have been married since 2006 and i have 3 children. They are 4, 3, and 2. I have know my wife and started dating her in highschool. We have never seperated in our entire time. 
In our time being married the business i owned was forced to close down to to unforseen problems, and now i am working a differnt job at about 50% of what i used to make and gone from home about 30% more. Due to that fact alone i know it adds strain to any relationship even more so when young kids are around.
Last month we bought and closed on our new house, the one she wanted to get due to it being close to her work.
Over the last year she has become very hostile at random times, both verbal and physical. Earlier this month on top of our usual arguments, she stated, and ment it with conviction that she no longer loves me, and if we did not have kids she would be out. Later that night she comes to me and says she does love me. 
For the last two days now when she has gone to work i noticed she has not been wearing her wedding ring.
I have asked her recently (within the last month) if she has or is seeing someone else. She wont say the word no, but acted all insulted and started to get confrontational on to why i would think that. Her words were something to the effect "we have issues and the first thing you think of is the only reason i would have issues with you is because i am seeing someone else".
Every time i try to talk to her about what the issues may be she gets angry and says i should already know because she has stated them a million times in the past. I usually try and stay calm and say well i dont know please lay it out so i can try and understand.
So the question is i have a gut feeling, but i cant prove it. I was wondering if anyone else here maybe has/is going through the same situation and what you all feel about it too. Also what you think i should do.
Thank you for all you help and advise up front.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you have red flags as we say

my advice- drop the discussion, let her slip back into her comfort zone (that you arent suspicious) and start investigating quietly

start with phone records, look for recurring numbers and texting
install a keylogger
gps and VAR in the car is also a good idea

there's plenty more that others will recommend

bottom line is that you need to either rule out an affair or uncover one and stop it before being able to start repairing the marriage


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

She likely is cheating and insisted on the house to feather nest, planning to keep it and boot you out.

Suspect that there is a guy at work.

She's rewriting your marital history.

Not wearing her wedding ring?

Sign of both guilt and being done with her marriage.

You need to find out what is going on. Protect your health. If she is cheating most cheaters don't use condoms.

So there is a big risk to your health if she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Sounds like she's gas lighting you - see a recent thread discussing gas lighting - but it's basically telling you that you're crazy/controlling for your suspicions. It's an effort to get you to drop it. 

I agree with Almostrecovered's advice.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

I have looked at phone records and have not seen anything. Not to sound like a gloom and doom person, but i cant see nor access her work email, or to know if she possibly has other emails. To make things even harder her job is on an army base making it impossible to get to her job location due to security reasons. I can get on base to pick up kids at the onsite daycare, but that is about it.
I will look into the things almostrecovered mentioned. It is just hard to definitely get that"gut feeling" away without have access to all the information i would think i need...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Yeah, She's cheating. Need concrete evidence though. 

Listen to this....



Almostrecovered said:


> you have red flags as we say
> my advice- drop the discussion, let her slip back into her comfort zone (that you arent suspicious) and start investigating quietly


and this...



michzz said:


> She likely is cheating and insisted in the house to feather best, planning to keep it and boot you out.
> 
> Suspect that there is a guy at work.
> 
> ...


and this....



sigma1299 said:


> Sounds like she's gas lighting you - see a recent thread discussing gas lighting - but it's basically telling you that you're crazy/controlling for your suspicions. It's an effort to get you to drop it.


You already _know_ what's going on. Gotta prove it now.

Listen to Almostrecovered. Drop the talks, it's 007 time.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Can you stop by her work? Can you drop by to take her to lunch and dinner?

Be seen be a threat to the OM because clearly there is one
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Can you stop by her work? Can you drop by to take her to lunch and dinner?
> 
> Be seen be a threat to the OM because clearly there is one
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


nope



solidstat said:


> . To make things even harder her job is on an army base making it impossible to get to her job location due to security reasons. I can get on base to pick up kids at the onsite daycare, but that is about it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Clearly someone at work. Could you contact her supervisor or HR and tell them that you strongly suspect she is in an office romance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Clearly someone at work. Could you contact her supervisor or HR and tell them that you strongly suspect she is in an office romance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


might be too premature until he gets more evidence

reason being that she will surely hear of it and start covering her tracks


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Ahem. Before you start contacting people at work and tip your hand....

In your initial post, you describe several "red flag" warning signs, but one big one is missing. You do not mention that your wife is "working additional hours," or "going out with friends a lot lately."

If there is indeed an affair (physical affair, that is) going on, your wife has to actually be finding time for it. Are there any time gaps that don't have a good reason for existing?

Otherwise, you may just be looking at a workplace attraction, EA (emotional affair) type situation, which sucks, but not as bad as a physical one.

An easy informative test you can do in the meantime is to scoop up her ring and place it somewhere else. If she doesn't notice or say anything, you have problems irregardless of whether or not there is another man. If she asks you if you've seen her ring, well, that would be a good sign.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

NotLikeYou said:


> Ahem. Before you start contacting people at work and tip your hand....


agreed



NotLikeYou said:


> In your initial post, you describe several "red flag" warning signs, but one big one is missing. You do not mention that your wife is "working additional hours," or "going out with friends a lot lately."If there is indeed an affair (physical affair, that is) going on, your wife has to actually be finding time for it. Are there any time gaps that don't have a good reason for existing?


disagree
my wife worked night shift and actually took time from her sleeping schedule, Ive seen others conduct affair during lunch breaks or slip away from work




NotLikeYou said:


> Otherwise, you may just be looking at a workplace attraction, EA (emotional affair) type situation, which sucks, but not as bad as a physical one.


some EA's are worse imo, harder to break out of and seem justified to those missing emotional connections, they also lead to PA's quite often


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

We've seen time and time again here the recognition that a spouse's gut is nearly perfect despite lack of evidence. 

I am personally not a big fan of letting things slide when you _know_ something is going on... it just allows it to blossom more fully, gets her in deepr to whatever "it" is. 

_Physically_ abusive on top of verbally??

I'd be demanding you both enter MC to discuss these marital problems she's told you about a million times, based on the heated arguement you had earlier this month and her commentary that she doesn't love you. Make the appointment for her, and insist she come with you. If she refuses, you know there's more...

In this case, the discussion seems to have been had, to no avail... but simply accepting "you should know what the issues are" is pretty lame. And her arguing that you believe your issues are _because_ there is someone else, instead of _resulting_ in there being someone else, is missing the point - which you allowed. I just don't understand having the discussion and letting it end without a staisfactory answer...

What does she say to explain why she no longer wears her wedding ring?

So yes, investigate where you can. But I'd be equally focused on preparing myself for the fallout to DDay that is coming at some point, knowing what you will do when the bomb drops, because it's likely coming...


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

I will do the ring swap tonight. As far as time gaps i cant really say there is. She has been going into work about an hour earlier each day, or trying too.
She takes the kids into the base to drop them off each day. 
Unfortunatly i do feel there is someone else, and i know that when you read about it that is the internet they say there is a reason i am feeling this. Also i have other things that have happened over the past year to make me feel and say these things. I just dont want to bore everyone here with all the details. 
I just wish their was an easy way to know for sure, this unsure/unknown is whats killing me the most. 
3-4 days a week though due to my current job i am not getting home till past 9 at night. So there is more than enough time for things to happen. Sorry about jumping from one thought to the next in my rambilings here, but i assume you all can decifer what i am trying to say.
Aside from hiring someone, or attempting to "bribe" a guard to allow me in i dont know how to get 100% answers.
I am just at a loss at the moment....


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

NotLikeYou said:


> An easy informative test you can do in the meantime is to scoop up her ring and place it somewhere else. If she doesn't notice or say anything, you have problems irregardless of whether or not there is another man. If she asks you if you've seen her ring, well, that would be a good sign.


I wouldn't place much credence on that being "good" or "bad" as far as marital health signs go.

Regardless of it's symbolic significance, it's an expensive piece of jewelry. She is attached to it. She will notice it missing regardless. Reading into why she noticed it missing is speculative at best.

But, Outside of maybe your best friend, or a family member.. do not approach anyone or say anything to anyone about your suspicions. Start making a log. Connect dots. DO NOT go off half ****ed and confront her with the first few pieces of evidence you find. I know for a fact you can get the evidence that your looking for, there are weak spots. Make it your job to find them.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

okay you say that sometimes you are home late

why not try this-

call and say you will be working til 9pm on a day you know you can be home on time

just show up and if nothing is afoot just say that you got lucky and so and so covered for you


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

solidstat said:


> Also i have other things that have happened over the past year to make me feel and say these things. I just dont want to bore everyone here with all the details.


Your not boring anyone. We are here to help, spill it. All the details, leave nothing out.




solidstat said:


> Sorry about jumping from one thought to the next in my rambilings here, but i assume you all can decifer what i am trying to say.


Yes, unfortuneately we all understand all to well.




solidstat said:


> i dont know how to get 100% answers.
> I am just at a loss at the moment....


Relax, we can help. Give details. Does she have facebook? use a home CPU? Tell us about her technical prowess... Is she "plugged in?". More details man...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

type of phone?


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I wouldn't place much credence on that being "good" or "bad" as far as marital health signs go.
> 
> Regardless of it's symbolic significance, it's an expensive piece of jewelry. She is attached to it. She will notice it missing regardless. Reading into why she noticed it missing is speculative at best.
> 
> But, Outside of maybe your best friend, or a family member.. do not approach anyone or say anything to anyone about your suspicions. Start making a log. Connect dots. DO NOT go off half ****ed and confront her with the first few pieces of evidence you find. I know for a fact you can get the evidence that your looking for, there are weak spots. Make it your job to find them.


Yes, it's an expensive piece of jewelry. And the normal response is to notice it missing. Then again, the normal response is to be wearing it. IF (and I stress IF, here) she is in an affair, she isn't thinking straight. She will put the ring down somewhere, neglect to wear it, and not think about it. And not notice that it is moved.

Reading into why she noticed it is missing is speculative, but speculation is currently all he has. This is a really quick, really simple action that gives information that is not subject to speculation. One could speculate why she did or did not notice the ring is gone, but WHETHER OR NOT she notices the ring is gone is not subject to speculation, and speaks volumes on its own.


Moving along.

If your gut is telling you there's a problem, your gut is probably right. In reading your subsequent post, it appears there are some time gaps. The idea of saying you have to work late is good. You might consider observing things from outside for awhile, before you "get off work early."

If she cares for your children during the evening, probably there won't be, for instance, strange cars outside your house.

Your best bet is to get inside her communications. Cheaters get weird and sloppy. If you read this site much, you will run across proponents of "go through her stuff, hack her email, bug her phone, put a VAR in her car / room." While this all sounds like stalker-behavior, it works.

What you are doing is pursuing peace of mind- you want definite proof, or definite ABSENCE of proof, that your wife is cheating. So do what you have to do, and the commenters here will be invaluable with methods of finding out. 

If it turns out she is unfaithful, you move into figuring out what you want to do. If she turns out to not be cheating, you feel bad for doubting her, and focus on fixing the other problems in the marriage.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

Alright then.....This is the first real big one.
I first got the gut feeling about over a year ago or so give or take some time. She was on a business trip out of state. I was home watching the kids like nothing out of the ordinary. She or i would always call each other during the day so we could talk and so she could say hi and goodnight to the kids. So it was bed time for the kids and she had yet to call, so i called her and she did not answer. I never thought anything about it, i just assumed she was busy and would call back. She never did.... When she called the next morning i asked what happened. She told me she went out with a few of the contractors and coworkers for dinner, then after they went to a bar. Everyone left so her and her coworker went out bar hopping till all bars closed then went to a 7-11 and drank in a parking lot till like 4am.... This was VERY unlike my wife, yet alone i know how she reacts to drinking, specially if it is too much, which really worried me. 
Since then his name among others comes up more frequent. I know i may be jumping to conclusions due to the fact they among other have to work together, no differnt then when i will tell her about people at my work. 
She has a facebook and on a few forums here and there, but nothing that i can find nor see to make it just jump out red flag. Her cellphone is an older flip phone from about 3-4 years old maybe....
Among other travels she does, which is required for her job btw nothing really stood out like that day. 
last week she brought her work laptop home, i asked why is that here? She told me she might have the opportunity to work from home one day a week. I said great are you trying to work from home on my day off? All of a sudden she started to side step my question by asking other questions. I used to be in sales i understand that is a tactic to "remain" in control of a conversation. So i asked again that night and the answer i got was her mom wants her to be home on 9/11 due to she feels something might happen. So she is trying to get approval to stay home one day a week. The next day i asked again if she has herd anything about her request to work from home. She just said no, and very abrubtly changed subjects.
My wife is a very intelligent woman, and I think if she is covering her tracts now it will be very hard for me to uncover them. I know the old saying everyone always at some point always slips, but...
As i read what i type i know how it sounds, it makes me look like i am an idiot and not "seeing" what other people here may be, but i know as you guys all know there is always more than what is written down.
I see what i am writing, and yet i cant seem to accept that maybe she is or had an affair due to the relationship we have/had. It is hard to think that the one person you feel you should and can trust with anything all of a sudden you cant. 
I will post more details as i remember them, but i have yet another meeting i have to attend, and agian thank you ...


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

solidstat said:


> She never did.... When she called the next morning i asked what happened. She told me she went out with a few of the contractors and coworkers for dinner, then after they went to a bar. Everyone left so her and her coworker went out bar hopping till all bars closed then went to a 7-11 and drank in a parking lot till like 4am....


This factoid alone screams out that your wife is cheating. And boozing it up to boot.

If you do not have this person's name and contact information you need to get it in a way that doesn't tip your hand about investigating your wife.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

how are finances? is hiring a PI feasible?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

your wife is lying about the laptop and the reason she brought it home. but, you knew that.

she is careful, or "he" is being careful and prompting her to cover her tracks and take precautions. 

Two things jump out which make that logical... 1. One or both of them are involved with the military. They have A LOT to lose and they know it. The miltary frowns on infidelity, careers are at stake. 2. In my experience, the military is wrought with infidelity, cheating and affairs. Good chance he may have experience with other men's wives... or has access to a wealth of people with knowledge about "how to cheat well".


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

Finances are ok, but the problem is that all my money is direct deposit and it all goes to our joint account. She would for sure see if a strange sum of money went missing.
Just to clairify my wife is a civilian working for the military, as far as the one gentelman in question i know he is now a civilian, but i dont know if he was previous military. Both of them are engineers. He is also married and yadda yadda, as you can guess i have done/tried to already do some leg work, but have hit a wall.
What i dont understand while i am going back to rambling is if she is/was cheating how could she still sleep in same bed with me and not crack? 
Another weird thing i just remembered a couple of days ago she tried to accuse me of cheating, and anyone who knows me knows that is something i would never do ever. Kinda of one of my weird quirks i just never could understand how you could betray someones trust like that.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

solidstat;412793
What i dont understand while i am going back to rambling is if she is/was cheating how could she still sleep in same bed with me and not crack?
Another weird thing i just remembered a couple of days ago she tried to accuse me of cheating said:


> to answer the first part-it's called compartmentalization
> 
> the second part is called projection


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ouch, I don't have a good feeling about this. It feels like it's going to be brutal.

You have to brace yourself. These things are usually iceburgs dude. 

Start by throwing away everything you think you know about your wife. All of it, out the door. 

Regarding the active military thing, doesnt make much difference. They are still held to a code of conduct if they are military contractors. People being paid directly or indirectly by the US military have ethical standards they are held to. I believe they sign something to that effect when they get hired. Also, most engineers and contractors must have 'clearance' of some sort. secret, topsecret, SCI, etc... ? Does she?

Really I guess that's inconsequential... He's married. That is ample reason for him to suggest extreme precautions.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> some EA's are worse imo, harder to break out of and seem justified to those missing emotional connections, they also lead to PA's quite often


:iagree:


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

solidstat said:


> Finances are ok, but the problem is that all my money is direct deposit and it all goes to our joint account. She would for sure see if a strange sum of money went missing.
> Just to clairify my wife is a civilian working for the military, as far as the one gentelman in question i know he is now a civilian, but i dont know if he was previous military. Both of them are engineers. He is also married and yadda yadda, as you can guess i have done/tried to already do some leg work, but have hit a wall.
> What i dont understand while i am going back to rambling is if she is/was cheating how could she still sleep in same bed with me and not crack?
> Another weird thing i just remembered a couple of days ago she tried to accuse me of cheating, and anyone who knows me knows that is something i would never do ever. Kinda of one of my weird quirks i just never could understand how you could betray someones trust like that.


IF they are cheating, the lies and deception(sleeping with you) are no more difficult that the act of unfaithfulness.
I verified thru phone records and her admission that my wife would hang up with the other man when I got home or to take my call EVEN when they had phone sex!


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Listen to your gut. You can put a VAR under the seat of her car. Also, I have put one inside the cover of the arm rest. A VAR around the computer at home, if she uses that often. Those will likely give a hit. There are other ways, also. But you are most likely only going to confirm what your gut is already telling you. I did the spy thing for a while, got pretty deep with it. It always simply confirmed my gut, so I just learned to listen to that instead of acting like I was in the CIA.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Ouch, I don't have a good feeling about this. It feels like it's going to be brutal.
> 
> You have to brace yourself. These things are usually iceburgs dude.
> 
> Start by throwing away everything you think you know about your wife. All of it, out the door.


Total, complete agreement. I feel a train wreck is coming...and the worst part is, the OP doesn't yet see it. He hears a distant train whistle, smells something in the air burning... but feels it's on another track somewhere in a nearby town...

solidstat, I feel for you I really do. Please, listen to the good people here, and let them help you. There is too much valuable, painfully-gained experience to not pay attention. We **ALL** simply could not believe our WS were even _capable_ of having an affair, many of us even when faced with brutal evidence. We ALL cannot comprehend how our WS could continue to kiss us, much less have sex with us while their affairs continued. We ALL could not fathom that they could lie to us, and deny when confronted. We've all been there...


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

Yes she does have clearance, not that that means anything. What you do on your private time as long as it in not illegial wont affect his nor her job.
Now when you say thow everything i know about her out the window, how does one do that when that is all you know of her? I have to treat her like an enemy until i get all the answers i want, but yet still have to pretend she is not.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

When reading some of your posts i see some have said you got your wives fo confess to you? How? What was said? Becasue at this point all i can do is look at phone records and keep an eye on bank records. Both she could overcome easily.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

You don't have to treat her any differently to do your due diligence. But let's face it, she's already treating YOU differently, is she not? Telling you she doesn't really love you anymore, then taking it back...not wearing her wedding ring (what WAS her answer to this, btw?)...out drinking till 4am, then suddenly introducing new male 'friends' to the conversaton...bringing her laptop home, then gaslighting to you as to why...verbally and physically hostile...then projecting onto you unexplained, accusing YOU of cheating...


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

No i understand all of that, i will continue to do what i need to in order to try and get the answers i feel i so desperately need. My question was how did you get your significant other to open up and confess everything to you? Was it only after you confronted her with evidence you gathered, or was it a way you asked?


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

solidstat said:


> No i understand all of that, i will continue to do what i need to in order to try and get the answers i feel i so desperately need. My question was how did you get your significant other to open up and confess everything to you? Was it only after you confronted her with evidence you gathered, or was it a way you asked?


I had pretty solid evidence and she still denied. WW started to come clean only after I contacted the OM and he verified the A.

And before-I would have told anyone who would ask "there is NO WAY my wife would EVER cheat on me!!"


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

solidstat said:


> No i understand all of that, i will continue to do what i need to in order to try and get the answers i feel i so desperately need. My question was how did you get your significant other to open up and confess everything to you? Was it only after you confronted her with evidence you gathered, or was it a way you asked?



My goodness. Mine would look me right in the eye and lie. In one case, I asked if she had talked to her boyfriend again. It was during a period when she had claimed their relationship was over. She said no. I said, don't lie to me. Have you talked to him tonight. She looked me square in the eye and said no. Then I played the voice activated recorder and her eyes got big.

There have been threads here and in my own experience with my wife, they only confess what they think you already know.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

solidstat said:


> Yes she does have clearance, not that that means anything. What you do on your private time as long as it in not illegial wont affect his nor her job.
> Now when you say thow everything i know about her out the window, how does one do that when that is all you know of her? I have to treat her like an enemy until i get all the answers i want, but yet still have to pretend she is not.


Again, this is a moot point but. My understanding is that any type of military 'secret clearance' is directly linked to your ethical decision making and can be affected by a moral breach of conduct. Infidelity I believe is directly addressed in the military code of conduct.

*According to AR 380-67 (Personnel Security) Chapter 2-200,* Security Clearances can be denied for (among many other things) "Criminal or dishonest conduct", and "Acts of omission or commission that indicate poor judgement, unreliability or untrustworthiness". 

Seems marital infidelity exhibits poor judgement, unreliability and untrustworthiness". 

WHo knows if they would press the issue in court. (doubtful) I'm just saying. There could easily be career ramifications or at least percieved consequences which would cause your wife and this OM to use extreme caution.

Not finding anything easily or even finding what I would (want to) believe was proof of it not happening (including reassurances or being gaslighted by the wife) would not dissway me from listening to my gut/intuition.

In my experience, its almost always dead accurate.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Personally, Idid it all. I confronted with very little evidence, but told her I *knew*... and was leaving (bag packed) if I didn't get every bit of the truth. Which I didn't get initially. I then went through several days into the constant interrogation (literally 10-20 hours a day for 5+ days), as I was not accepting half-truths or "I don't know" until I had it all. Finally, we got to a consistent story that wasn't changing...

I then scheduled a polygraph. She readily agreed, and I started feeling better that I had the truth.

At one point, it digressed because I misunderstood prior statements, and I lied and told her I had been sent pictures and was simply waiting to know if she'd actually continue lying to my face or not, because if she was prepared to continue lying to me while I had proof in my hads, I was going upstairs to get them and would leave them on the counter on my way out that door for the last time. I grabbed an envelope and came down the stairs, glaring, waiting... her crying, saying to me any picture I might have would have to be my own doing, because what I was claiming never happened. I then felt I might have the truth...

Obviously that's not a terribly smart tactic, and it can only be used once or twice if you don't leave. The point here being, you need to be prepared to enforce very real consequences. Without consequences, there's no reason to come clean...

I think the better method is to work through a MC and address it in an environment that is "safe to discuss openly"...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> you have red flags as we say
> 
> my advice- drop the discussion, let her slip back into her comfort zone (that you arent suspicious) and start investigating quietly
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Going through the financial / job situation you are dealing with is becoming all too common. i.e. much less coming in while working many more hours. Both of these for you in a large dose.

So this puts extreme pressure on a very good marriage. It is depressing for you and cannot help but impact your self worth. 

Also many women see a husband bringing home less money as unattractive. I do believe some would trade their workaholic husband for one that gives them more time and attention. The assumption I guess is that they don't bring home a lot less money. Idunno. But now you are bringing home less and working a lot more. A double whammy.

You are not meeting your wife's needs and yours are not being met either. This of course is not your fault as you are trying to adapt. This is not easy.

That said, a new home closer to her work. Wow, that sounds like you are trying there anyway. Is this a new job for her?

I agree both her behavior and words seem to betray her thoughts. Her not saying no is telling. It sounds like she is telling you, sure I am having an affair but that did not cause our problems. A possible interpretation. I think I would take it that way.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

All i can say to everyone here is thank you. It is comforting to know i can come here and try and get answers from people who were/are in the same situation. 
I have been reading other threads and seeing how other people have been dealing with all the lies, emotions, and sleepless nights. 
I really do hope that this is all in my head, but if it is not i at least know where to turn for questions and help .


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

solidstat said:


> What i dont understand while i am going back to rambling is if she is/was cheating how could she still sleep in same bed with me and not crack?


Are you kidding?

Cheaters sleep like a baby doing just that. Some really get off on it.

And accusing you of cheating is a classic smokescreen to distract attention from her crappy behavior.


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## lizzards (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm sorry to say, but there is something going on. If she is not cheating yet, there is someone she is talking to too mcuh to be just friends. My husband cheated twice and always got defensive when I confronted him, but never denied it. I would suggest see if she's willing to go to counseling. Maybe if a neutral 3rd party gets involved some more honesty will come out. I think you have to decide, too, whether you will accept this behavior. If she has cheated but wants to work it out are you willing to, or will her cheating be the end. Make that decision clear to her, without accusing her, just so she knows truly what her actions will result in. This is a hard situation and I wish you the best. In the end you have to do what is best for you, so I hope my comments help, but I know there are other options, too.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

1) Contractors co-workers going out to dinner. Normal stuff. 

2) Going out to bars. Not a great idea. Better if she is not the only woman in the group. Typical way to treat this is to have a drink or two and leave ... alone, in a group or with another woman. At the very least, leave when the group leaves.

3) Be left with a guy at the bar. A definite no no and arguably unfaithful behavior in itself but for sure flirting with danger. My male colleagues and I do not leave a lone male co-worker one on one with a loan female co-worker in a bar / hotel bar late at night. It is not that we distrust anyone. It is not to watch them as much as it is the male not wanting to be left in that situation. Meaning they do not want an appearance of any improper activity. Like "Hey where is Dave?". "Idunno we left him with Cindy at the bar last night". 

4) Go bar hopping alone with a guy after everyone else goes home. Ok, we are in deep now. This is a big no no. If the other was borderline, this has crossed someones boundary.

5) Ending up in the 7-11 parking lot .... or in another hotel room .... or wherever at 4am. Of course she called him back at 7am.

Add to this that she was unreachable during that time and that this is the story she chose to tell. Which is plenty bad enough on its own.

So guys, if your wife travels a lot with other men and they do the above social activity ... get real. This has nothing to do with trust. The trust is that she would not put herself in these situations.

And just for balance. If I was on a trip with a group of women and did the same, my wife would go through the roof and possibly lawyers would be involved. She does trust me. But she would not trust the women just like I would not trust the men. She would not like me bar hopping with one woman or staying out all night with her. Especially with me not answering her calls all day and night.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

So last night when i got home i asked her in a very easy going way why she has not worn her ring. She said because she was doing yard work. Then she tried to argue with me, so i went to bed to read a book. About 2 am she tried to cuddle with me and said i really do love you. She has not tried to cuddle with me for a very long time. 
Very confused and suspicious at same time too. I will see her again this morning to go to an orientation for one of our kids. She is still not wearing ring.
Just an update and again thanks for all your input.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Tried to argue with you about what? And then unusual cuddle attempts, felt the need to re-assure you that she 'really does' love you, hmmmmm... stay diligent. And I believe some 180 actions here may help you in many ways... shows some backbone/male-ness, lets her know there's risk and consequences, sets the stage for future dialogue... the more you let it be known you're content enough without her, the more she'll want to close the gap.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

The argument was over something stupid, to be honest i really don't even remember nor at this point care. The only thing i remember was her saying something about that i lied about putting gas in one of our cars??? I snapped and said something along the lines of I lied, i suppose everything going on here is all my fault too according to you, at that point she said no it is not just all you. I tried to push a little more to get more answers but she closed down and tried to divert the argument else where. That is when i went to bedroom to read a book. At that point it was just not worth the argument any more to me. I felt i was going to get no where fast and just keep aggravating myself, so i left in mid sentence left her where she was and read.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

solidstat said:


> When reading some of your posts i see some have said you got your wives fo confess to you? How? What was said? Becasue at this point all i can do is look at phone records and keep an eye on bank records. Both she could overcome easily.


You're NEVER going to get your wife to confess without evidence and even then, they only confess to what you've found.

Now, you say that you've looked on the phone bill and no unusual numbers pop up. Okay. I'm sure she calls work. If it's an office affair then she would call him at the office. You looking at the phone bill would only show her calling work, but she's possibilly talking to the OM. Could be that he's married too and this is the only way they can communicate is through work.

I would suggest that you get a voice activated recorder, you can pick them up anywhere, plant it in her car securely! Then, review the recordings when it's safe to do so. You can catch what conversations she having and with who (if your lucky).

Oh, and another thing. If you do find something, NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!!!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

dont forget what I said about saying youre working late one night and coming home on time


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

this raises another separate good point to remember: if I had it all to do over again, one thing I would change is to work much, much harder at controlling my anger in the many, many long and emotional discussions I had. Not because I shouldn't be angry, but my outbursts (there were so many, so heated) never once helped me to get answers or responses I wanted. While it may have shown I (still) cared, I don't think it ever helped move the discussion along as I wanted it, it only intimidated her and made her withdraw or try to come up with a quick response that wasn't always well-thought-out. Try your best to be as calm as you can when talking to her; it gives both a coolness (part of the 180) and a calmness (to get her talking openly) that are to your advantage. You can go punch a wall later if you need to.... trust me, I know it's hard to do, just some counsel if you can use it.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Just my $.02, but your wife shows many of the signs that mine does. I feel with almost 100% certainty that my wife is NOT cheating. She HAS fallen out of love with me, however, and will not directly admit it. Personally, I think that is what your wife is going through. IS that better? No. But you may want to look at your situation from that angle as opposed to putting all of your eggs in the "She's probably cheating" basket.

My wife acts the way she does because to her, I think, not loving me and not telling me about it is it's own little betrayal, and she knows it. Just as if I'd accuse her of cheating, when I accuse her of not loving me she would get defensive and throw the counter charges and gaslighting at me. She is betraying her marriage vows either way. Just like she promissed before God to be faithful, she promissed to love me. She also promissed that if anything stood in the way of our happiness together, she'd help fix it and not walk away.

My wife doesn't have the opportunity to hang out with a lot of men and your wife works on an Army base, so there is greater opportunity for someone who's checking out of a marriage. So yes, care is needed, but there's no guarantee it's gone that far. Even the night of drinking and partying with men. She could have said, "Oh Crap. We went out to dinner and a few drinks and when I got home I noticed my phone was off. So sorry". Although not a smart thing to do on her night off, and telling you the truth was probably a mistake, she could have lied. Plus, it's not a pattern.

No advice. I can't fix my own marriage so I'll be no help with yours. You just need to be carefull reading replies from people who have been cheated on. Two posts into this and there was already a unanimous consensus that she has a lover.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

another thing too, REALLY GOOD cheaters that know how to cover their tracks well get "affair phones" those cheap "pay as you go" phones. If she good at covering her tracks and knows you look at the bills, then she doesn't want a suspicous number ringing any alarms wiith you.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

MrK said:


> your wife shows many of the signs that mine does. I feel with almost 100% certainty that my wife is NOT cheating. Personally, I think that is what your wife is going through.
> .
> You just need to be carefull reading replies from people who have been cheated on. Two posts into this and there was already a unanimous consensus that she has a lover.


_*Occam's razor.*_

Below are compiled statistics on infidelity and marriage:

Percentage of marriages that end in divorce in America: 53%

Percentage of marriages where one or both spouses admit to infidelity, either physical or emotional: 41%

Percentage of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 57%

Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they've had: 54%

Percentage of men and women who admit to having an affair with a co-worker: 36%

Percentage of men and women who admit to infidelity on business trips: 36%

Average length of an affair: 2 years

Percentage of marriages that last after an affair has been admitted to or discovered: 31%

Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74%

Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 68%

Further statistics

-2 out of 3 women and 3 out of 4 men admit they have sexual thoughts about co-workers. 

-86% of men and 81% of women admit they routinely flirt with the opposite sex. 

-75% of men and 65% of women admit to having sex with people they work with. 

The fact is that human beings are NOT monogamous by nature. That means they cheat. 

Experts say that a gut instinct is the most powerful indicator of a cheating lover. Adultery statistics state that 85% of woman who feel their lover is cheating are correct. 50% of men who feel their lover is cheating are right. The first clue is seldom obvious. Typically, it's a "feeling" that something is different. 

One study found that 2/3 of LS's (f) had no idea their spouses were having an affair - largely because they failed to recognize the telltale signs. 

*the above adultry statistics on the prevalence of affairs were made more than a decade ago;* so based on changes in society during the intervening years, the current percentage of the population who have had affairs is probably Much HIGHER**.* 

***keeping in mind that 10+ years ago when these stats were compiled.... there was no Facebook, smartphones, texting, or other sorts of on-demand social media and technology.***

These statistics were based on men and women that admited to these indiscretions and also can not account for a reasonable percentange of people who "took it to the grave" or chose to minimize there EA's to "meaningless, harmless flirting" or a "close friendship".

_*If you have more than one possible explanation for a phenomenon, all things being equal the simplest is preferred.*_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

WhiteRabbit said:


> i feel like the percentages should be higher for women but most of them just won't admit it....i feel like more women do the "take it to the grave" thing than men. just my .02


Makes me think of the OW in my EA. In our fantasy world she had this idea that she was going to slowly distance herself out of her marriage, become single and then she and I would run off together. All of this so her H would never know she had an affair and because it would "be easier on him." I was always like WTF?? I think part of her really believed she could actually pull that B.S. off and "take it to the grave." UFB!!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

WhiteRabbit said:


> i feel like the percentages should be higher for women but most of them just won't admit it....i feel like more women do the "take it to the grave" thing than men. just my .02


I suspect this as well from comments I have heard from women on this topic. Usually advising other women to "take it to the grave".

The what they don't know will not hurt them approach. We all know though that it still impacts the relationship in far reaching ways. The BS just does not know why.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MrK said:


> Just my $.02, but your wife shows many of the signs that mine does. I feel with almost 100% certainty that my wife is NOT cheating. She HAS fallen out of love with me, however, and will not directly admit it. Personally, I think that is what your wife is going through. IS that better? No. But you may want to look at your situation from that angle as opposed to putting all of your eggs in the "She's probably cheating" basket.
> 
> My wife acts the way she does because to her, I think, not loving me and not telling me about it is it's own little betrayal, and she knows it. Just as if I'd accuse her of cheating, when I accuse her of not loving me she would get defensive and throw the counter charges and gaslighting at me. She is betraying her marriage vows either way. Just like she promissed before God to be faithful, she promissed to love me. She also promissed that if anything stood in the way of our happiness together, she'd help fix it and not walk away.
> 
> ...


Yes, but it should be noted your wife went through of phase of hanging out with men on her secretive GNOs to meat markets. I apologize if I have you confused with another poster.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Tried to argue with you about what? And then unusual cuddle attempts, felt the need to re-assure you that she 'really does' love you, hmmmmm... stay diligent. And I believe some 180 actions here may help you in many ways... shows some backbone/male-ness, lets her know there's risk and consequences, sets the stage for future dialogue... the more you let it be known you're content enough without her, the more she'll want to close the gap.


So again last night she keeps going from trying to be real close/cuddly to 100% different. I am doing my best to not have any outbusts or really trying to argue at all. I think it might be confusing her a bit. When ever she gets angry i just quietly leave and go and read a book and calm myself down.
In the meanwhilei will continue to look for any weird spending or phone numbers.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I highly recommend you place a.VAR where she sits to talk with him and then go run dome errands so she knows you are out for while. Rinse repeat.

She is. Acting like a woman who is worried her hubby is asking too many questions after her handholding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

crossbar said:


> Oh, and another thing. If you do find something, NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!!!



:iagree: I made that mistake.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

All right Shaggy, its about time some suggested the VAR=voice activated recorder.

Stash it in her car and any were else she spends time around the house. Were does she go when she wants to talk in private?


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

2xloser said:


> this raises another separate good point to remember: if I had it all to do over again, one thing I would change is to work much, much harder at controlling my anger in the many, many long and emotional discussions I had. Not because I shouldn't be angry, but my outbursts (there were so many, so heated) never once helped me to get answers or responses I wanted.



:iagree:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> _*Occam's razor.*_
> 
> Below are compiled statistics on infidelity and marriage:
> 
> ...




Supposedly infidelity has tripled since 1997. Coinciding with the growth of the internet, Facebook, and cell phones?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

the guy said:


> All right Shaggy, its about time some suggested the VAR=voice activated recorder.
> 
> Stash it in her car and any were else she spends time around the house. Were does she go when she wants to talk in private?


VAR has been mentioned several times and OP has not acknowledged. Is he familiar with cheap voice activated recorders?

Re leaving 1 hour early to go to work. Cheaters use parking lot of factory we contract with as early as 5o am. Use parking lot at night too.

Does she let you see her cell phone? Passwords?

Has marriage counseling been brought up? Make a list of things from this thread and bring them up at counseling and then state thats why I believe she has been cheating.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

toomuchofacutie said:


> She's NOT cheating on you!!!
> I woman with 3 kids simply doesn't have time for that. You guys have financial problems, so she probably has to work long hours, too.
> I know it's easy to just assume that your wife is having an affair. IT WOULD FIX ALL YOUR PROBLEMS, right?! To just blame her for everything... like nothing else matters.
> So she forgets to wear a ring outside, so what? She has a 2 year old, and she probably needs to wash her hands quite often. Fingers get itchy, women sometimes even get a rash because of that damn ring, I know, I do. To deal with it, I have to keep the ring in my pocket whole day... and sometimes, I just leave it there.
> ...


Troll, anyone?

If not - Ummm...guessing she wore her ring for years prior without it being such a "nuisance in the yard". My STBX wore hers for 6 1/2 years straight, only taking it off for a few minutes to have it cleaned at the jeweler every six months...I was usually there when she did that.

Then one day things felt different between us...for a while. I suspected something was up. Had reason to be suspicious of a certain other man. Started poking around for evidence. One day she took her ring off and I noticed. She left it on her desk in plain view. As she later claimed, she had a "skin treatment scheduled", so had to take it off. But it stayed off even after I mentioned it, she even left town for a work trip without it. When asked why, she merely deflected and ignored (just like OP's wife)....and never put it back on.

A week and a half later, I had solid proof of her affair. 

A wedding ring is not "jewelry". It is a *wedding ring*. It is pretty much on, or it is off.


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## ILOVEDHIM (Apr 18, 2009)

Buy cellphonerecon it works wonders....gps.. Email logs to and from her phone ..text messages..phone logs...it's great!!!


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## toomuchofacutie (Sep 4, 2011)

"A week and a half later, I had solid proof of her affair."

Sorry to hear about that, man. Finding out must suck big time... really really sorry.
I just can't believe it... a mother of such young children who has a loving husband... and having an affair.:scratchhead:

P.S. I just learned what "trolling'" means. I'm not native... so I learn new words everyday. No more trolling. Sorry again.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

so just an update and also more advise..... Much to my time looking i have been unable to find if she is or has cheated. Up to about 2 weeks ago we were doing ok.... She even book a trip for us and the kids to go on vacation in December. The it has gone to hell in a handbasket. A week ago her family was buring her grandmothers ashes in a funeral on a Saturday. I was told i am not family and was not alowed to go. The funny part is when her family asked where i was was she acted all innocent and said i had to work??!! Then over the last week her moods have gotten worse and physical. I have cuts and sctratches up and down my neck and arms from her either throwing stuff at me ot clawing/punching me. she screams at me in front of kids demeaning me and acting very unlogical. She says things in front of the kids mind you it was always a mistake from day 1 with you, if we had no kids i would be gone, all three of them were mistakes, calling me an idiot among other verbal bad things. Tonight if front of our kids she takes her wedding ring off and said something, to be honest dont remember, and threw it. 
When i finally got my computer back from her after i put kids to bed all i see in the history is pages upon pages of how to divorce and filing seperate taxes. Also she says she is going all next week to Arizona for work???
So now finally my question. Obviously things are not kosher here at my house. I have not been able to find things about if she has or has not cheated, but it is either that in my mind or she has cracked and gone insane??? What do i do not only to protect myself but my kids too?? She seems to be making all these grand jestures about divorce but she has not even talked to her family. They call me and ask what the hell is going on? 
Any advise???????


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

See an attorney immediately to understand your options and how to protect yourself and your children.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What have you done to check up on her. Ask her family if she was going out while she was away for the funeral.

Checked phone records, keylogger, var?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

chapparal said:


> What have you done to check up on her. Ask her family if she was going out while she was away for the funeral.
> 
> Checked phone records, keylogger, var?


:iagree:

solidstat, did you just ignore all the great advice here? Because it seems you're stuck in limbo while trying to sweep this under the rug. You need to take action.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

First of all, make sure you have tried all the possible snooping efforts such as putting VAR under her car seat, checking her email & cellphone record, putting keyloggers in computer(I suspect you cannot do it on her work laptop), etc...

And, there is one last thing you can do, which is to contact the wife of the suspected OM. Just express your concern and ask her if she knows anything about it.

If all those efforts are fruitless, then there is only one thing left to do. Sit down with your wife, and discuss the possible divorce. And, ask her in return to giving her the divorce she wants, to at least tell you exactly why she has come to hate you so much. Ask her to give you at least the peace of mind of knowing the truth so that you can understand the truth and move on. Tell her that you are sorry for not being the best husband in the world, and whatever the answer is, you will understand. 

This last step is to reach out to her conscience if she has any left. Frankly, people divorce all the time with or without A. Even if there is/was no A, her behavior clearly indicates that she does not love you and does not want to stay with you. This is also not a good environment for the kids either. During the D talk or even during the process of D, I think there is, say, 50/50 chance that she may confess something out of her guilt. 

If she indeed found someone available and want to be with him and thus want to D you, how can you stop her anyway? But, if there is no future with OM(assuming there is one), she will probably try to stop you from pursuing D. In such case, you would obtain somewhat higher ground to demand plausible reason for her recent unacceptable behaviors.

Don't beat your brains out. Just follow these guidelines and let whatever happen just happen. That's all you can do. You are not the bad guy here, and no matter how the outcome turns out, you will keep your integrity intact. I feel sorry for the kids, but there is only so much you can do. Take actions, and leave the rest to the God.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

Yes i have done everything you all have stated in here to do. I have checked phone, email, banks, and also had var in house and car. Nothing except for 1 odd deposit amount. I have asked her family and according to them they say she is even acting weird. They have no idea what or why she is being the way she is. My wife even refuses to talk to them. That all being said now i have done some research on what happens if we get divorced. From what i have read if i leave the house i am telling the courts that i have given up on my kids?? So the way i see it i have to live in hell with them in order to be with them. 
I know those are al things i should ask a lawyer in my state and get the real low down just venting.....
Is it possible to get or be bi-polor later in life like this or in everones opinion is she cheating. It just does not make sence how you can go from love to hate so quickly, have 3 kids back to back, and buy a house with me to just hate me the entire time???


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

One of the key symptoms of A is such erratic behavior and mood swing. That alone should raise a huge red flag. I think you have a very legit reason to suspect an A. Some women are really thorough covering the track. This is more so with WW than WH. Especially in your case, the A is likely going on inside the military camp, which makes it so much harder for your to check and so much easier for your W to carry this on. 

Don't you have anyone inside the camp you can ask for help? Can you afford PI?


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

i am friends with the head of security there. i suppose i can always ask him for some help. As far as the PI i think i need one the week of the 24th of this month when she is in arizona. If not for anything else i would love to catch her at this point not only to proove to myself i am not insane, but also to have leverage when it came to house and kids. 
See all i want is answers and an open way to talk. I am a firm believer in the fact the heart wants what the heart wants and nothing in this world can make that change. i may still love her but if she longer does to me all i ask is for honesty and truth. This constant spy vs spy/cat vs mouse game is insane. The way she has been acting around my kids and myself is unacceptable and no matter what the case may be that has to stop. 
Sorry just went off into deep space and vented again, all i want is answers and i am at a loss of how to get them......


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Talk to a lawyer soon to see what can be done to protect yourself and the children. If she attacks you call police to get everything on record.

I would call friend in security immediately unless he is possibly other man.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Contacting the Head of Security guy sounds like a good idea. At this point, you don't have many options left. This is a last ditch effort, so anything goes. Having PI follow her around in Arizona may be good, if you suspect she's going there to meet up with OM. 

You believe that the heart wants what the heart wants. I respect that, but the problem is oftentimes WW wants to cake eat. Instead of admitting they are in love with someone else and demanding D, they just string you along while carrying on an A. And, the poor BH sits home wondering what the hell is going on. This is why you cannot be passive dealing with this. I know you didn't ask for this, and you don't deserve this. But, this fight has been thrown at you, and you have to confront it. Life just is not fair.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

I dont know if she going there to meet up with OM or if she will just random hook up. I will talk to my friend and see what he may or may not be able to do. I also submitted my story to cheaters.com to maybe get an idea of a cost to a pi in arizona. 
I get life is not fair and for all intensive purposes it could be if we all just were honest and made the effort. That is how i am and i always thought that is how she was.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

solidstat said:


> I get life is not fair and for all intensive purposes it could be if we all just were honest and made the effort. That is how i am and i always thought that is how she was.


Yeah, I already figured you are a very decent guy, and I am sorry this crap is happening to you. WW is like a vampire. Before they turn, you would have no idea. And, when they are finally out of fog, they often say things like "I cannot recognize that woman", or "it was like out-of-body experience" crap. I am sure she once was a genuinely good woman. But at some point when she put her guard down, she got turned.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

In the mean time get the book "Love Busters" By Willard Harley. Every married couple should read this. If she calms down it may be just what you two need . If not it will help you next time around. Good luck. Do what you can do and as quickly as possible . Anger always under control.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

She just told me i have 1 month to move out. Then she changes locks. My one son was crying saying i dont want daddy to leave. She in return said some bad things. I said we are going to counceling she said ok not that it is going to change anything then i file for divorce. If you (I) refuse to sign then at least i will be legally seperated from you then i can see just how enjoyable being alone is.
I just wanted to say thanks to everone on here with all help you have done but to me it looks like the end. 15 years gone. If anything changes or updates i will let you all know. 
Thanks again.....


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She's an educated engineer, she has red flags all over the place for an affair that you can find zero proof of. However, she is loving one day and turns she devil and becomes verbally and physically abusive another day. Its an affair or mental instability. Any history of mental illness? 

At some point in a marriage, problems that have been glossed over keep building until one of the partners just breaks. Have either of you ever been to counseling?

Did you say she had started going to work early? Tried to reread thread but missed it if you did?


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

Yea she has been. Neither one of us have ever been to counseling.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

solidstat said:


> She just told me i have 1 month to move out. Then she changes locks. My one son was crying saying i dont want daddy to leave. She in return said some bad things. I said we are going to counceling she said ok not that it is going to change anything then i file for divorce. If you (I) refuse to sign then at least i will be legally seperated from you then i can see just how enjoyable being alone is.
> I just wanted to say thanks to everone on here with all help you have done but to me it looks like the end. 15 years gone. If anything changes or updates i will let you all know.
> Thanks again.....[/QUOT
> 
> ...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You do not have to or should you leave. She can leave, but she cannot take your son.

You must hire a PI to follow her and you must get a lawyer.

I would also suggest getting a couple of VARs. One should be on you at all times, and the others in places likened car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

solidstat said:


> Yea she has been. Neither one of us have ever been to counseling.


The reason I asked was that a couple have been meeting at a parking lot near here early in the morning before the people normally get to work there. I guess it never to early for an affair.

Talk to attorney soon before discusssing anything about a divorce with her.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

I am so sorry for this. Try counseling with her. Maybe there she may spill some clues what the real deal is. As far as talking to the Head of Security, do talk to him. What have you got to lose at this point? And, regarding her plan for Arizona, hire PI if you think it's worth the try.


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

She is telling me that she has said things a million times and she is not repeating??? Call the cops and really confuse the kids even more?? I know i am going to talk to laywer. In this moment i am just numb, dazed, confused, and very empty. At this point i think i just need to do what i can to make sure i am fine and my children will be ok. Over time they will see the truth and maybe we will be stronger.
idk i am just babbiling.......


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> I am so sorry for this. Try counseling with her. Maybe there she may spill some clues what the real deal is. As far as talking to the Head of Security, do talk to him. What have you got to lose at this point? And, regarding her plan for Arizona, hire PI if you think it's worth the try.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

PI may uncover things that will change the whole dynamic of your situation.

Separate finances as soon as possible. 

Document injuries if possible. I don't know how you feel about custody but she doesn't sound stable enough to be around children.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Ask her to say it one million and ONE times, set up a time when the kids are not there, go to the counselling, and listen carefully.

She is acting like she caught you cheating. Or found out something about you. I'm sorry to chime in here, but I recognize what she is acting like.... extremely angry at you for something. 
But that could be guilt, I guess. 

Any violence on your part?


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

No violence. The closest to me was last week when she was attacking me i held her down and told her to stop hitting me and to talk. she refused to stop and we went into other rooms. I have never laid hands on her in a violent way.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Some of these threads may help....Knowledge is your main weapon now

Considering Divorce or Separation


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

solidstat said:


> No violence. The closest to me was last week when she was attacking me i held her down and told her to stop hitting me and to talk. she refused to stop and we went into other rooms. I have never laid hands on her in a violent way.



Is this kind of anger and violence unusal for her, her family?


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## solidstat (Aug 31, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Is this kind of anger and violence unusal for her, her family?


Yes there has been. Her mother went on meds about her outbursts. She has always been kinda moody, but nothing like this.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

chapparal said:


> In the mean time get the book "Love Busters" By Willard Harley. Every married couple should read this. If she calms down it may be just what you two need . If not it will help you next time around. Good luck. Do what you can do and as quickly as possible . Anger always under control.


The" Love Busters" book is designed to explain how you got into this situation and get you out of it. Millions of copies have been sold so I assume you can get it at most bookstores although I bought mine at Amazon.

It doesn't sound like an affair to me but I sure wouldn't put money on it. I think you have just missed the warning signs shes been sending, which is what almost all couples go through. Get the book, go to counseling and keep your eyes and ears open.

Definitely talk to your friend in security. Problems in a marriage, even if one partner has no clue about them, can definitely lead to adultery. However, you just may be reading her signals wrong. Seems odd though that she would be cheating and you would have to restrain her. Sounds like she's just reached her breaking point. Get the book today. Have you gone to the Mens Clubhouse on TAM and looked at the man up threads at the top of the page?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I also might think there is a reason why she is so very angry. If there is no violence, is there any possible reason... anything in your past that she has found.... or a reason to suspect that you may have wandered? This kind of anger is similar to discovering wandering, or financial difficulties.

Any clues as to what she has told you a million time? You must have some idea... what have you fought about in the past?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

solidstat said:


> Yes i have done everything you all have stated in here to do. I have checked phone, email, banks, and also had var in house and car. Nothing except for 1 odd deposit amount. I have asked her family and according to them they say she is even acting weird. They have no idea what or why she is being the way she is. My wife even refuses to talk to them. That all being said now i have done some research on what happens if we get divorced. From what i have read if i leave the house i am telling the courts that i have given up on my kids?? So the way i see it i have to live in hell with them in order to be with them.
> I know those are al things i should ask a lawyer in my state and get the real low down just venting.....
> Is it possible to get or be bi-polor later in life like this or in everones opinion is she cheating. It just does not make sence how you can go from love to hate so quickly, have 3 kids back to back, and buy a house with me to just hate me the entire time???


Have you really done everything? If so, then which keylogger or computer monitoring software are you using? You should realize that if you aren't using a keylogger or computer monitoring software, you checking her email accounts is useless because you are only checking the KNOWN email accounts, and you will miss any secret email accounts.

If she has a smart phone, what cell phone spyware do you have on her phone? Do you realize all the nice chatting and instant messaging apps there are for smart phones? When using these apps, they WILL NOT SHOW UP ON THE BILL. You will only see data usage.

What kind of VARs are you using? 

*And NO, SHE CANNOT TELL YOU TO GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AND CHANGE THE LOCKS!!!* That is JOINT PROPERTY, which I'm sure you are a co-signer on the mortgage, AND there is no property settlement signed by a judge. She cannot legally make you leave and she cannot change the locks. You can call the police on her if she does.


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