# Confusion



## jay77 (Nov 20, 2015)

I posted on another topic forum here and that mostly went the way of, follow / investigate your wife because she's cheating. Brief background: been married almost 16 years, been together since high school. We have on child, who is 5. Last week, out of now where, she told me she doesn't know if she wants to be married anymore; that she has lost that spark / happiness she had for me that she used to have. I was blindsided, to say the least. She initially said it wasn't me or anything I did, but that it was her. The last week has been very rough. We try to be as normal as possible, but she's very opposed to really sitting down and talking. I will try not to bring it up, but she will only give me a few minutes of actual discussion, then she's done. She spent one night away from me and our son and I thought we made a bit of progress, but it doesn't feel that way now. She was supposed to have her first counseling session yesterday, but a snafu in insurance caused it to be cancelled. She finally said something last night regarding what she was actually feeling. She said that she doesn't feel loved by me or feel special. She resents me, because she would always compliment me on things, or express herself, and I'll admit it, I am not good at verbally saying things. I never ignored her and I think she is so special, but I just never was really any good at saying it. She says that last time she really felt loved by me was when our son was born. She'll admit too, that she never mentioned anything about this, because she just attributed it to daily life and stress from dealing with our son, work and everything else. Now for the part I'm confused on. I have started doing the things that I used to do for her before our son was born. We used to clean the house together before he was born, and I've started helping out more, than what I usually do. I've tried to get us to go out for some "us" time without him always around. She says that she feels everything I'm doing is forced. It is things I used to do for her, but have fallen away from since our son was born. I ask to hold her hand and she either pulls away or says we never held hands before. I try to give her a little hug and she doesn't respond. She says that she doesn't feel loved by me or special, but is uncomfortable with anything I am trying to do let her know that she is. Anyone have any suggestions??? I don't want to just sit by and do nothing, because by doing nothing, I don't expect any positive results to occur.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

are you positive that there is not another person in the picture? where did she stay the night she left you and your son...i will tell you something...for a mother to leave her son and be away is very strange indeed.


----------



## jay77 (Nov 20, 2015)

I am about as positive as I can be that there isn't another person. She went to a hotel for the night, on my recommendation, just to get away and give her some time to herself, since I wasn't helping any matters for her at the house. She had an extremely difficult time making the decision to leave just for the night, but I think she did, because she knew she needed some time away and that our son would be safe with me.


----------



## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah... I would definitely suspect that there is someone else involved. At least as a first step, I would start thinking of whether or not you have seen any red flag signs of infidelity. Check the cell phone records to see if there are a lot of texts/calls going to a particular (perhaps unknown) number. Does she never let her phone out of her sight, keep it password protected or try to keep you from seeing it? Do what you can to get a look at her phone sometime and look for any messaging apps like Whatsapp, snapchat, etc. (Snapchat especially would be a red flag) You might check around the house/bedroom to see if there is anything strange you might find... like lingerie you don't recognize, notes, new "fashionable" clothes, etc. Has she exhibited any other strange behaviors in recent weeks/months? Going out more frequently? Working late? Hanging out with a new friend a lot? Etc.


If she isn't involved with someone else (even just emotionally), I would stop trying so hard to push her, and I would go pick up a couple of books. First, I suggest the Five Love Languages, because what you described is that she is a "Words of Affirmation" lover. Honestly I love that one because I think it's really easy for someone who isn't into words of affirmation to adapt to. It's a very quick and easy read. I also recommend "Love and Respect" and "The Married Mans Sex Life Primer 2011".

Bottom line, if she is feeling put off by your efforts, then you need to pull back. You'll only push her away faster. You might instead focus some of your energy on yourself. Eat better, work out more frequently, clean up the house and take care of all of the nagging little issues that have been lingering at home for a while. (like minor repairs, repainting, landscaping, fixing the fence, replace broken tiles, etc.) Spend more time with your kids, etc. She might be feeling frustrated/annoyed that you're making this effort NOW, after she reached her limit with you and girded herself for divorce, when you had ample opportunity to do so before and didn't.

One thing to remember, what you said about feeling blindsided by your wife is not at all uncommon for us guys. We see it all the time. Women communicate differently than we guys do, so this is common. If, for example, you have a problem with a long time male friend of yours borrowing too many of your tools and not returning them, the next time he asks to borrow a tool you are going to say something like, "Yeah you can borrow it, when you bring back my other tools." or "No you can't, you still haven't returned the other tools you borrowed weeks ago." A woman might say however, "Yeah, no problem... hey, did that last tool you borrowed work out for you alright? Are you just about done with it...?" You wouldn't say that, why? Because if you did, you'll get the impression that yes, you should try to remember to return that tool sometime when you have a chance but it's not a big deal and there isn't any rush. Women struggle to communicate their needs/feelings directly, so their communication often comes across to us as though it isn't a big deal, or requires only a minor/minimal response.

So my guess is that (again, assuming that your wife isn't involved with someone else in which case all of this is irrelevant) she has probably tried her best to make her feelings clear to you for a very long time now and just finally reached the end of her rope. It often seems like, with women, they are fully on the side of trying to make it work as hard as they can but once they reach the very tip-toe edge of that cliff, they take the plunge and there is no going back for them. It's not like turning the car around after they've decided to go left but now that right is more appealing they change their mind. It's a cliff, and it's hard to get them back. Again, that's just my two cents.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Sorry, double post


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Please everyone. This guy fully gets the fact that there COULD BE another man in the picture. He will check. LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!!!

You freakin' people get your rocks off helping a guy track down a cheating wife. You LOVE it. I know because _I_ love it. It's like our own real life little movie we get to watch REAL TIME!! 

"What, this guy's wife doesn't like him any more? Boo- freeakin'- hoo. Join the club pal. Oh, what's this? A guy's got his wife staked out at her lover's place over in the "Coping" section? Good luck dude. she ain't coming back. And I'm gone for good now too". 

You want cheating drama? Go to "Coping". Want to help this guy? Stick around.

So lets spend a little time talking about what we KNOW.

I want everyone to understand what is at stake here. I will do it by giving the Cliff Notes version of my story.

Story book marriage. Three kids 5-10 yo. Found the love of my life. She found hers. We were forever soulmates. True BFF's. We were together forever. Perfect? OF course not. But pretty damn close. 

I tried to fix the parts that were not perfect. Bad mistake. I couldn't figure out why she wasn't coming around. What she said wasn't matching what she was doing and vice-versa. Nothing made sense. I came to this and other forums. I was getting nowhere. How is this possible? We have the same heart, soul, and brain in the rest of our life. We finish each others sentences. What is going on here?

"OK Macho. We get it. You got the ILYBINILWY speech. What's your point"?

My point is that I never GOT the ILYBINILWY speech. 

It took me a long time to understand why I understand this issue better than 90+% of the people on this board. What gives me the right to claim to be for walk-away-wives what Gus and Weightlifter are to electronic survailence? In other words, what makes me the expert?

I'll tell you.

Typical ILYBINILWY scenario:

WIFE: ILYBINILWY

HUSBAND: What? We are soul mates?

WIFE: No we're not. And haven't been for a long time.

HUSBAND: (It takes a while for the husband to accept that this is actually happening. Cannot understand why it is happening. Any number of scenarios run through his head like "OK, who is it"? he cries, pleads, begs and further pushes her away. Starts thread in "General", is soon bullied into moving it to "Coping". Pretty soon we are at 30 pages with various scenarios of what it could be, 22 of those pages all say the same thing: Spy).

WIFE: (Has an agenda that does NOT match his. He just has ZERO idea exactly how far apart they are. She uses the time it takes for her husband to figure it out to get her ducks in a row).

JUDGE: You are hereby now legally divorced. This could have all been avoided if you would have listened to Macho McCoy back in the day.

You see that really long paragraph up there describing what this poor bastard is going through? It's the longest paragraph because it takes a long time. And most ex husbands just lick their wounds and move on, bringing the same problems into their new relationships. Kids watch it happen. They do it too. Rinse, repeat...

You know how long it took me to go through that stage? A stage that never really ends for most men? I'll be generous and say 5 seconds. I remember it as instantaneous. My kick in the gut. But it had to take a couple of seconds to utter the 8 words that did it. It had to take a second to kick in. And to this day it is hard enough for me to grasp that my present and future could so radically change is such a short moment. But for all of that to happen PLUS have my past 15 years or so 100% rearranged at that same moment? (Yes, My PAST changed. On the spot). How is that possible?

Those 8 words she uttered DEFINITELY were NOT "ILYBINILWY". Doesn't add up mathematically anyhow. They were not words that began a process of understanding (or not, as the case may be). They were not words that left her meaning or intention vague. Those words she uttered made my scenario chrystal clear from that very moment. My wife, my soulmate, my past-present-future. My everything. And she doesn't love me. And she never will again. She's gone for good.

Just a total fluke in how it happened to me. The way I came to the realization. Doing research the wrong way even. "That scenario is kind of like mine, but we love each other more than they do". Or "Yeah, but no way can they be as in love". EIGHT MONTHS of "Close, but not quite", And "sort of, but there's NO WAY they love each other as much as us".

And all it took was eight perfectly chosen words from her to make it all chrystal clear. An epiphany. A perfect storm of learning and revelation. Making me the Doctor of WAW understanding and enlightenment.

Now, I see every thread on this board as "this guy has NO IDEA his wife doesn't love him any more". Then all of you start with your spying thing. The women with your "start dating her again" (I'll answer that one right now. By the time he's on this site whining about it, she's gone already). None of those posters have ANY IDEA that this guy's wife has already checked out. And if someone like me tried to say it, 90+% would shoot it down. And rightly so. You all don't know it can happen this way. I do. Every thread suffers from this. Wives check out. All the time. And when they tell you they have, listen.

Before all of you try to go back and prove that I'm a hypocrite in that my situation actually DID include infidelity, I'll address that right now. As the years go past and the pain of the betrayal lessens, it now means near ZERO to me now. Don't care. It was in the past and means nothing now. But my wife currently does not love me and never will again. That gets worse the longer we are together. In other words, years later that SYMPTOM means nothing now. The disease, however, was fatal.

I did "catch" her (never proven, of course). And it was enough to make her stop. In hindsite, I handled THAT part well. Funny, you all would have been "right" in my case. I would have done what you said. And to this day I'd be with a wife who doesn't like me and not even know it.

"She's Cheating" makes sense to people. That she could actually have been with him for so long and not love him and him not know makes no sense. I am 100% sure it happened here. There may be infidelity. But that's not his problem.

180 time pal. It saved my life. Just DO NOT think she will see the improved you and come back. Get used to life without her. Sorry to be so blunt.


----------



## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

A book that really helped my husband and I was, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman.
We went through the book together as a last resort. We were discussing separating and decided to just try reading the book together. (It had been recommended by our MC.)
The interesting thing about this book is it teaches you some things about HOW a marriage can reach the 'point of no return' without you even realizing it. There are signs along the way that aren't evident unless you are looking for them. 
One of the things that gave us hope within the first few chapters was making a timeline of our love. The highs and the lows and then comparing. It was eye opening because our perception of different seasons of our lives were very different. It started some talking points about why. And also reminded me of the good times and the happy times that I had somehow forgot existed.
A book certainly can't save your marriage if you aren't both willing. But if she would agree to go through it with you and do the exercises, using the book as a guide she may feel less defensive about talking when it's coming through the book and not just you two trying to figure it out on your own.

Most likely, if she's anything like I was, she honestly has no clue why the love died. Why she doesn't feel attached anymore. She may WANT to feel it again but just won't fake it. That's probably why she's ultra-sensitive to thinking you're faking it. Not that you are, but her thinking is probably something like, 'if he didn't want to interact with me on this level before he was afraid he was going to lose me, then how can it be real now?'

For me, I didn't realize how much I wasn't letting my hubby know my needs, desires, preferences, etc. I was from a family that taught to cater to the husband and make him comfortable and happy. He wasn't asking me to sacrifice myself but that's what I had been taught to do. It was nice and easy for him so he had no idea I was suffering. 

I began to die inside and had no idea how to be revived.

Please consider the book. It won't help your wife reconnect with herself but it will provide a map of what may have happened to your marriage and begin to put those pieces together again so that she can be supported by you as she finds her inner spark again. 

It could be that your wife has some underlying depression and isn't connecting well with her own needs and emotions. I sure hope the insurance works out and she can get to a counselor soon. 

In the meantime if your plan is to keep fighting for the marriage try to let her know you want her to be healthy and happy and you're willing to do what you can to support her in that process as long as she works to stay in the marriage. Depending on how deep this goes it could take a year or two to navigate through this. If you're not willing to do the hard work to reconnect and allow her to find her feelings again then it would be better to let her know up front. (And vice-versa)


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The reason people recommend finding out if she's cheating is that dealing with a cheater and dealing with a walkawaywife are two different things to most people.

Getting a var is usually to find out if its cheating. Cheating is a total dealbreaker for some folks, others maybe,maybe not. Walk away wives can sometimes be romanced back into the marriage.

This marriage seems to be awfully young for a was. Also, cheating is caught here much more than was syndrome.

Get a var and put in her car. Download the mmslp book from amazon linked to below.

You have to have a diagnosis before you can find a cure.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> The reason people recommend finding out if she's cheating is that dealing with a cheater and dealing with a walkawaywife are two different things to most people.
> 
> Getting a var is usually to find out if its cheating. Cheating is a total dealbreaker for some folks, others maybe,maybe not. Walk away wives can sometimes be romanced back into the marriage.
> 
> ...


I agree, and let us not forget that in some states proving infidelity can pay off for the BS in divorce court.
Oh, it also helps to avoid an STD that may or may not kill you during the 8 months or so while the BS is trying to "win" the WS back.


----------

