# Actions Have Consequences



## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*Off-duty cop shot trainer after finding him in house with wife*

The off-duty NYPD sergeant who shot a personal trainer inside his home had been arguing with the man — who was home alone with the cop’s wife moments before, according to police and sources.

 The 34-year-old sergeant, identified by sources as Justin Ellis, *was placed on modified duty* after the encounter early Friday morning at his Nassau County home in Seaford, according to police.

 Ellis allegedly came home just after midnight to find the 29-year-old personal trainer inside, according to police and sources.

 “He told the guy to get out of his house,” a police source told The Post. “They had some words. The guy went to his car and got a bat. And he shot him.”

The trainer, whose name was not released, was shot in the chest but was expected to be OK.
Ellis, who works in the 103rd Precinct in Queens, told cops the man came at him with the bat, police said.

 No charges have been filed in the incident.

 https://nypost.com/2019/10/27/off-duty-cop-shot-trainer-after-finding-him-in-house-with-wife/


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

A bat is a deadly weapon, it just doesn't have the trajectory of a bullet. The police should not be charged for defending himself. The man who started the fight on the cop's property needs to be charged with trespassing and attempted assault with a deadly weapon.

Why was the personal trainer in the cop's house, alone with his wife? A divorce may be forthcoming.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Good for the cop.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

He didn't finish him off? You had one job.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

My wife and I discussed this one, seeing that it happened in our general area. She said the cop had no excuse to shoot the trainer, bat or no bat, that it was clear the trainer was a guest of the wife. My point to her was that if I came home after midnight and there was another man in my home, no matter what the reason he was there for, he would need to fear for his safety. She was actually getting angry with me to the point where I said “then let’s just agree to disagree”.

If the trainer wasn’t ****ing the cop’s wife, he was sure trying to. He got what he deserved. If this ever goes to trial, I want to be on that jury.

Edit: If your wife gets a personal trainer, just file, it’s easier.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

BruceBanner said:


> He didn't finish him off? You had one job.


:lol:


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The trainer left the house then returned with a weapon. Cop did the right thing. Should have aimed a little better. 

Time for a divorce lawyer as well. Wonder what role his cheating wife played in the argument.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

The trainer shouldn't reproduce. He got caught with a cops wife, in a cops house and told to leave. He then argues with the cop in his own home, goes to get a bat to use on a cop and gets shot.

This guy is too stupid to exist outside of a monkey cage and the cops wife deserves to be kicked out to live the rest of her life with that brain trust.

What is your wife's malfunction MM?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Wait a minute. If the trainer left the house, why on earth didn't the cop just lock the door when he left? What am I missing?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If under the circumstances the bat represented a deadly threat, then the shooting was justified. Not enough detail to know if that was the case. The infidelity was irrelevant to whether or not the shooting was OK


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

When I read stories like this I am always struck how it's like two people fighting over a bag of garbage.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

sokillme said:


> When I read stories like this I am always struck how it's like two people fighting over a bag of garbage.


Yep. A race to the bottom.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

So, this idiot 

- has a thing with a cops wife knowing that cops tend to be armed
- is stupid enough to mess around in the cops own house
-gets told to leave and then thinks it's a great idea to come at the cop he knows is armed with a baseball bat


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> *Off-duty cop shot trainer after finding him in house with wife*
> 
> The off-duty NYPD sergeant who shot a personal trainer inside his home had been arguing with the man — who was home alone with the cop’s wife moments before, according to police and sources.
> 
> ...


Nypost is so bu.ll.****y that they make it seem the cop shooted the man without a reason. If anyone got a baseball bat for me I would shoot the hell out of him/her.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

IF the guy came in and threatened the cop with a bat, the shooting was probably justified. But the frequency of cops murdering people and then covering it up with lies is way too high for me to just take his word for it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> What is your wife's malfunction MM?


If you mean why doesn't my wife see why the trainer deserved a bullet, that's a good question.

It's odd when you consider that she has/had several cops on her side of the family: Grandfather, uncles, cousins. On top of that she works in a law enforcement related field. Yet she said that the transgression didn't deserve the trainer being shot. I've been trying to think why she has her position, and frankly I'm drawing a blank. 

It could go back to our issue we had almost 10 years ago when an ex boyfriend from high school tried to reconnect with her (with the help of her sister) and I put an end to it with a sledge hammer (metaphorically speaking). She called me controlling then, and maybe she views my supporting the cop in this case as supporting a husband controlling his wife and who the wife can be friends with. Who knows? My wife is also very anti guns.

Right now there is no reported evidence of a "romantic relationship" between the wife and the trainer, and the trainer's lawyer (liar for hire) denies any "romantic relationship". However, I stand by my earlier statement: if the trainer wasn’t already ****ing the cop’s wife, he was trying to. Why else would he be there after midnight?


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

The Middleman said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> > What is your wife's malfunction MM?
> ...


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

niceguy47460 said:


> Mm maybe you better keep an eye on your wife . Sounds to me like ssd's he is cheating or is wanting to .


While I know infidelity has no age limits, I seriously doubt that’s an issue at this stage of the game ... and I keep an eye on things ... more than she would like. For some reason, I think that she just wanted to take a position contrary to mine.

Enough threadjacking my own thread.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

ABHale said:


> The trainer left the house then returned with a weapon. Cop did the right thing. Should have aimed a little better.
> 
> Time for a divorce lawyer as well. Wonder what role his cheating wife played in the argument.


Should have aimed right between his legs to save other husbands from dealing with this POS. As for the wife....she has some ‘splainin’ To do as we say in Kentucky.:smile2:


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

I would hope the cop kicked his wife out to .


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Who brings a bat to a gun fight and expects a positive outcome?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Who brings a bat to a gun fight and expects a positive outcome?


The same ass-hole who thinks it’s a good idea to **** a cop’s wife.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

niceguy47460 said:


> I would hope the cop kicked his wife out to .


Even if she wasn’t banging the trainer, she will be an outcast on Long Island.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> If you mean why doesn't my wife see why the trainer deserved a bullet, that's a good question.
> 
> It's odd when you consider that she has/had several cops on her side of the family: Grandfather, uncles, cousins. On top of that she works in a law enforcement related field. Yet she said that the transgression didn't deserve the trainer being shot. I've been trying to think why she has her position, and frankly I'm drawing a blank.
> 
> ...


I thought of that right off the bat ( pun intended )


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

MAJDEATH said:


> Who brings a bat to a gun fight and expects a positive outcome?


Real winners,. ( Sarcasticly being said) Lol...


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

MAJDEATH said:


> Who brings a bat to a gun fight and expects a positive outcome?


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

I sure in the hell would not let her go unscathed. Her actions need consequences. I bet if he checked her phone he would find out alot more . I wonder what her reaction to the trainer getting shot was .


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

niceguy47460 said:


> I wonder what her reaction to the trainer getting shot was .


I doubt we'll ever know, I don’t think the media will continue to report on it. 

My guess is that if they do decide to continue reporting on it, the media will portray her as some sort of victim. The victim of a “player”, or the victim of a trigger happy controlling husband. Just a hunch.


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## stillthinking (Jun 1, 2016)

First of all this cop’s training has got to be reviewed. This is unacceptable. 

Standard trading dictates a double tap to the upper chest. Wife’s boyfriend should not be breathing.

That was sarcasm in case some missed it.

Came at a cop with a bat, got shot. Darwin taking out the garbage.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> Who brings a bat to a gun fight and expects a positive outcome?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

FalCod said:


> IF the guy came in and threatened the cop with a bat, the shooting was probably justified. But the frequency of cops murdering people and then covering it up with lies is way too high for me to just take his word for it.


Bat or no bat, the guy had it coming. The bat just made it plausibility justifiable. Under these circumstances, I’m willing to overlook a little abuse of power. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Are you really OK with shooting someone for infidelity? Divorce, sure but death? That seems way out of scale for me. 

He wife cheated with some guy. He is perfectly in his rights to divorce her and never speak to him again. 

If there was no threat though, I don't see murder as anywhere close to justified. If he was threatened with a baseball bat, then the shooting may have been justified. 





The Middleman said:


> Bat or no bat, the guy had it coming. The bat just made it plausibility justifiable. Under these circumstances, I’m willing to overlook a little abuse of power. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Are you really OK with shooting someone for infidelity? Divorce, sure but death? That seems way out of scale for me.
> 
> He wife cheated with some guy. He is perfectly in his rights to divorce her and never speak to him again.
> 
> If there was no threat though, I don't see murder as anywhere close to justified. If he was threatened with a baseball bat, then the shooting may have been justified.




I say this as a warning for you in the future, if somebody goes to get a bat and starts to walk towards you, it’s not an invite to play softball or baseball. This trainer left the home, walked to his car, retrieved a bat, then began to walk back towards the home owner. Not sure what’s running through the minds of others, but surely the trainers intent is bad for the home owners health. Shooting him once in the chest is giving this trainer a chance to live. Wonder how the trainers lawyer will say that the trainer had no ill intent towards the homeowner. Then again, maybe the trainer is like Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men and thinks better when he is holding his bat.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

drifting on said:


> I say this as a warning for you in the future, if somebody goes to get a bat and starts to walk towards you, it’s not an invite to play softball or baseball.


During my CPL training class the instructor had us do a version of the Tueller Drill. I was selected as the armed person being attacked and a 30 something man was selected as the attacker. I was instructed to send my man shaped target out 21 ft, face the target, load my pistol, chamber a round, and be in the ready position. The attacker was instructed to walk 21 ft away. At "Go!" I would raise my weapon and fire two rounds anywhere on the target while the man playing the attacker would run toward me. 

I did not get off two rounds before he reached me.

The man was not athletic and had something of a dad bod. I have been shooting at that gun shop's range for quite some time before I took my CPL class there. I've done holster draw drills there. I was stunned. Going in, I was sure I'd get off at least 2 rounds before he reached me.

Guy coming at me with a baseball bat? After doing the drill I certainly wouldn't let him get close before defending myself from the threat.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Most people have never heard of the Tueller Drill and what it means. They can't imagine a person armed with a knife or club being a threat to a person armed with a pistol.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

TJW said:


> Yep. A race to the bottom.


I know mine wondered why I didn't "fight" for her. lmao 

She must have had a golden *****. You don't find too many of those.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> During my CPL training class the instructor had us do a version of the Tueller Drill. I was selected as the armed person being attacked and a 30 something man was selected as the attacker. I was instructed to send my man shaped target out 21 ft, face the target, load my pistol, chamber a round, and be in the ready position. The attacker was instructed to walk 21 ft away. At "Go!" I would raise my weapon and fire two rounds anywhere on the target while the man playing the attacker would run toward me.
> 
> I did not get off two rounds before he reached me.
> 
> ...


Isn't the distance the attacker is from you important to whether it's self-defense?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If the guy with the bat was threatening, I've no problem with the shooting. I was commenting on another poster who seemed to be saying that he "had it coming" and the bad was a convenient excuse. 

The only reason I'm suspicious about the bat is that there have been a number of well publicized police shootings that were described as self defense and later out turned out not to be. This is a strange situation - the guy gets caught cheating and comes back with a bat? Advancing on someone with a gun? If it was he betrayed husband, I could see him being irate and wanting to beat the other guy, but this seems strange to me. 



drifting on said:


> I say this as a warning for you in the future, if somebody goes to get a bat and starts to walk towards you, it’s not an invite to play softball or baseball. This trainer left the home, walked to his car, retrieved a bat, then began to walk back towards the home owner. Not sure what’s running through the minds of others, but surely the trainers intent is bad for the home owners health. Shooting him once in the chest is giving this trainer a chance to live. Wonder how the trainers lawyer will say that the trainer had no ill intent towards the homeowner. Then again, maybe the trainer is like Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men and thinks better when he is holding his bat.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

The Middleman said:


> If you mean why doesn't my wife see why the trainer deserved a bullet, that's a good question.
> 
> It's odd when you consider that she has/had several cops on her side of the family: Grandfather, uncles, cousins. On top of that she works in a law enforcement related field. Yet she said that the transgression didn't deserve the trainer being shot. I've been trying to think why she has her position, and frankly I'm drawing a blank.
> 
> ...


That's not odd at all. Your wife is untrustworthy and has a past with infidelity or attempted infidelity as I guessed to myself a day or two ago (Why else would she be so defensive over the situation?). No one would get that vehement over the situation without being an apologist themselves. What the hell are you still doing with her?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I grew up one town over from where this took place. It was a quiet, peaceful, family-oriented community in which the baseball bat was the weapon of choice. It wasn't typically wielded by idiots like this trainer - rather, it was used by the family of a BH who were 'visiting' the OM to let him know that his cheating days were over. It was always a very successful weapon. The trainer in this story may have felt like he had the advantage and hadn't realized that guns are pretty common nowadays, especially with cops. :scratchhead:


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Lots of missing details. And I abhore infidelity as much as you all do. But when the trainer left the house to get the bat, I don't understand why the cop didn't turn on his heel (if he followed him outside) and go back in the house and simply lock the door if he was "in fear for his life." If the cop didn't leave the house and let the trainer get the bat and let him come back in the house with the bat, that was clearly a set up to excuse the cop from shooting him. Either way, it's highly egregious.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Yeah, it is weird. The BH with a baseball bat makes sense - angry, irrational. The other way around? Why did the trainer want to beat the BH? (unless the BH was beating his wife or something). Its very strange. 

I'm disturbed by how many people seem to believe that beating someone who is having an affair with your wife is OK.



lucy999 said:


> Lots of missing details. And I abhore infidelity as much as you all do. But when the trainer left the house to get the bat, I don't understand why the cop didn't turn on his heel (if he followed him outside) and go back in the house and simply lock the door if he was "in fear for his life." If the cop didn't leave the house and let the trainer get the bat and let him come back in the house with the bat, that was clearly a set up to excuse the cop from shooting him. Either way, it's highly egregious.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

lucy999 said:


> Lots of missing details. And I abhore infidelity as much as you all do. But when the trainer left the house to get the bat, I don't understand why the cop didn't turn on his heel (if he followed him outside) and go back in the house and simply lock the door if he was "in fear for his life." If the cop didn't leave the house and let the trainer get the bat and let him come back in the house with the bat, that was clearly a set up to excuse the cop from shooting him. Either way, it's highly egregious.


He was probably distracted with the massive fight he was most likely having with his wife. Also, as has been pointed out, you wouldn’t expect the OM to be the aggressor and this cop probably didn’t either. Cops are used to people backing down from them pretty quickly and he probably thought he had taken care of the problem and that the guy would not come back. Many a cop has been burned by this overconfidence.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

The Middleman said:


> *Bat or no bat*, the guy had it coming. The bat just made it plausibility justifiable. Under these circumstances, I’m willing to overlook a little abuse of power. It couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.


Do you really think that an AP deserves to be shot and potentially killed? In that case, does the wife deserve to be shot as well? After all, SHE is the one who betrayed her husband - not the AP. Who knows if the AP even knew the full story. It's entirely possible that the wife told the AP all sorts of false stories. The AP could have been under the impression that she was divorcing her drug-addicted, alcoholic, gambling, video game addicted, abusive husband who beats and rapes her if she doesn't check the mail at precisely 2:47PM, or at least when he's not off ****ing other women or banging male prostitutes. We don't know! Even if the AP did know the truth, does he really deserve to get shot for that? Come on. That is revenge, not justice.

As someone who has been cheated on, I understand the quick emotional reactions and wanting revenge. There is still no excuse. I've been in a fight with an AP and in hindsight, it was beyond stupid and not worth the potential consequences.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Unless there is video evidence my money is on the cop is lying.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Isn't the distance the attacker is from you important to whether it's self-defense?


If it goes to court, yes. Which is the point of the Tueller drill. We were asked to write in our instruction booklets our name, the name of the instructor, the date and location of the class, and that on that date we witnessed the drill and the result. You do the drill so that, if you ever have to use your weapon in self defense, you can honestly tell the judge and jury that you _personally witnessed _how fast an attacker can close a distance before the victim of the attack can defend themselves. 



bobert said:


> Do you really think that an AP deserves to be shot and potentially killed?


No. The thing a few folks here seem to be forgetting is that the OM didn't get shot because he was having an affair. He got shot because he came at an armed man with what is legally considered a deadly weapon. Quite a distinction.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There are several parallel discussions gong on. I think the questions are:

Was it OK to shot him because of the affair. Some people think that itself was sufficient justification

Was it OK to shoot him because he was advancing with a bat. (that is an interesting question of how far, what situation - input on how quickly someone can advance is interesting)

Was the bat story true? It seems a little surprising and I think a lot of people are sensitized by police shootings. 



MJJEAN said:


> snip
> 
> 
> 
> No. The thing a few folks here seem to be forgetting is that the OM didn't get shot because he was having an affair. He got shot because he came at an armed man with what is legally considered a deadly weapon. Quite a distinction.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> The thing a few folks here seem to be forgetting is that the OM didn't get shot because he was having an affair. He got shot because he came at an armed man with what is legally considered a deadly weapon. Quite a distinction.


 The devil is in the details. If the OM had to "go get the bat" there was a break in the argument, unless the cop chased him, which he shouldn't have done--he should've closed the door.

I would feel 1,000% different if the OM had the bat WITH HIM in the house and was coming at the cop when the cop entered his own home. Then the shooting would've been justified.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

uhtred said:


> I'm disturbed by how many people seem to believe that beating someone who is having an affair with your wife is OK.


To be 100% honest, a little ass kicking I'm ok with. Shooting? Hell no.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

bobert said:


> Do you really think that an AP deserves to be shot and potentially killed? In that case, does the wife deserve to be shot as well.


Given the “facts and circumstances” in the three articles I read on this event, yes I think the trainer did deserve to get shot. As far as the wife goes, I don’t have enough infromation. 

Everyone must accept that one potential outcome of infidelity can be violence and/or death. Strong passions are involved, and I think that violence happens far more often than reported. I think the media rug-sweeps it. that’s one reason why when I see something like this I post it. If a potential WS or AP sees this and thinks it might happen to them, maybe they’ll think twice.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I"m not even OK with that. I still feel that the limit on relationship issues is ending the relationship, along with whatever legal benefits one can get with lawyers. 

The problem with ass kicking, is why just the other guy? Why not the cheating wife - they were equally culpable. Yet the image of husbands feeling justified beating their wives because they cheated is simply abhorrent to me. If I can't stomach that, how can I stomach beating the person the wife cheated with - who might also be a woman 


"good bye, my lawyer will be in contact" seems much cleaner. Revenge is rarely worth the effort. 




lucy999 said:


> To be 100% honest, a little ass kicking I'm ok with. Shooting? Hell no.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

uhtred said:


> I"m not even OK with that. I still feel that the limit on relationship issues is ending the relationship, along with whatever legal benefits one can get with lawyers.
> 
> The problem with ass kicking, is why just the other guy? Why not the cheating wife - they were equally culpable. Yet the image of husbands feeling justified beating their wives because they cheated is simply abhorrent to me. If I can't stomach that, how can I stomach beating the person the wife cheated with - who might also be a woman
> 
> ...


That's fair.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

uhtred said:


> There are several parallel discussions gong on. I think the questions are:
> 
> Was it OK to shot him because of the affair. Some people think that itself was sufficient justification
> 
> ...


I don't think it's ok to shoot someone for having an affair with your spouse, but it does happen. Do I condone it? No. Do I understand the point of view of the betrayed who, in heat of passion, shoots an AP? Yes.

Was it ok to shoot a man advancing with a bat? Well, I suppose that depends on state law. Here, in my state, yes.



lucy999 said:


> The devil is in the details. If the OM had to "go get the bat" there was a break in the argument, unless the cop chased him, which he shouldn't have done--he should've closed the door.
> 
> I would feel 1,000% different if the OM had the bat WITH HIM in the house and was coming at the cop when the cop entered his own home. Then the shooting would've been justified.


From the articles I've read it seems they were all outside when the shooting occurred. It hasn't been flat stated, but seems consistent with the description of the incident. 

In my state, for example, the law states "individuals are allowed to use deadly force to protect themselves if they believe their life is in danger" and that "an individual _has no duty to retreat if they feel unlawfully threatened by another_". Here, the shooting would have been legit even if closing a door had been an option.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Anyone that owns a firearm needs to understand the laws of their particular jurisdiction. Many different places have different definitions of when the use of deadly force is justified.

Common sense and what you see in movies will get you killed and/0r jailed.

Generally (really not a good idea) is that deadly force is justified only when your life or the life or the threat of significant physical harm is such that a reasonable person would be left with no other option but to protect themself by using deadly force. Some times this is called self defense.

In this particular case. The Personal Trainer can probably be shown in a court to be in good physical shape and therefore more of a threat than most. The Trainer also came at the husband with a baseball bat, which is a deadly weapon. 

The husband whether a police officer or not has a right to defend him/herself from a deadly force attack by using deadly force.

In some jurisdictions (especially non-USA countries) you have a duty to try to avoid a deadly force controntation. In other jurisdictions you may stand your ground under the castle doctrine.

Generally, the emotional trauma in taking a life is huge as is the potential financial cost of attorneys, lost work time, etc. It is far better from a rational man concept to take steps to avoid a deadly force confrontation if at all possible.

In this case locking the door after the trainer left and calling 911 would have been much more defensible. Also, exiting the house by the back door by the husband after the trainer left. From a jury perspective it is better to retreat, until cornered before using deadly force.

Do I think that the husband will be charged with a crime? Probably not as it generally fits the requirements of most use of deadly force laws. Do I think that husband will suffer because he put a bullet in the trainer? Yes, but not likely behind bars in a jail cell. 

Should the trainer after he left the house and went to his car, just got in the car and driven off? Absolutely. It takes two to fight and the trainer had ample opportunity to prevent the situation. In most jurisdictions when someone escalates a confrontation to include deadly force (the baseball bat) they loose the right to claim self defense.


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Yeah, it is weird. The BH with a baseball bat makes sense - angry, irrational. The other way around? Why did the trainer want to beat the BH? (unless the BH was beating his wife or something). Its very strange.
> 
> I'm disturbed by how many people seem to believe that beating someone who is having an affair with your wife is OK.


My deceased ex WW's lover attacked me and I beat him silly. It was worth the arrest and short stay in jail. And I would do it again. 

This trainer came after a man, with a deadly weapon, on his property. I don't know what Mr. Rogers neighborhood you were raised in, but I was raised to believe in the castle doctrine. You attack me on my property, you pay the price.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Why did he attack you? I understand your wanting to attack him, but I don't understand his motivation for attacking you.

I believe that the law is the ultimate resource for retribution, and that personal force should only be used in actual defense. 





BashfulB said:


> My deceased ex WW's lover attacked me and I beat him silly. It was worth the arrest and short stay in jail. And I would do it again.
> 
> This trainer came after a man, with a deadly weapon, on his property. I don't know what Mr. Rogers neighborhood you were raised in, but I was raised to believe in the castle doctrine. You attack me on my property, you pay the price.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Was it ok to shoot a man advancing with a bat? Well, I suppose that depends on state law. Here, in my state, yes.
> 
> From the articles I've read it seems they were all outside when the shooting occurred. It hasn't been flat stated, but seems consistent with the description of the incident.
> 
> In my state, for example, the law states "individuals are allowed to use deadly force to protect themselves if they believe their life is in danger" and that "an individual _has no duty to retreat if they feel unlawfully threatened by another_". Here, the shooting would have been legit even if closing a door had been an option.


You bring up a good point. I can't be certain, but here where I live, I'm pretty sure the aggressor has to be across the threshold of your home to defend yourself and not get into legal trouble.

And to everyone here I SO appreciate that we aren't fighting in this thread, unlike what happens in the politics and religion forums. :smile2:


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Why did he attack you? I understand your wanting to attack him, but I don't understand his motivation for attacking you.
> 
> I believe that the law is the ultimate resource for retribution, and that personal force should only be used in actual defense.


 You can believe what you want via your emotions but it won't carry water in a court of law. Your idea of "actual defense" doesn't jibe with the law that is on the books.

You and Lucy should look up "duty to retreat" and the definition of a deadly weapon. 
I'm not risking my life by questioning the intent of a man who is brandishing a deadly weapon while coming towards me. This ain't Hollywood, it's real life.
Do you think you'd be less dead if your skull was split open by a baseball bat than you would be being shot by a handgun or stabbed with a kitchen knife? Dead is dead and I for one am not knowledgeably giving anyone the upper hand in "deading" me and if I'm standing in my house I will NOT retreat (the laws of your state may vary). This guy being a cop is immaterial.

p.s. @MJJEAN I love seeing someone who has educated themselves and trained to take responsibility for their and their family's personal safety. Kudos to you.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> You can believe what you want via your emotions but it won't carry water in a court of law. Your idea of "actual defense" doesn't jibe with the law that is on the books.
> 
> You and Lucy should look up "duty to retreat" and the definition of a deadly weapon.
> I'm not risking my life by questioning the intent of a man who is brandishing a deadly weapon while coming towards me. This ain't Hollywood, it's real life.
> ...


I wonder if he was better off being outside in front of witnesses when this happened. When it is inside, there's no telling what his "wife" would tell the police. They tend to believe her before him. He's enraged. She's just having some adult fun with the trainer. Lots of judges look at it that way.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I wonder if he was better off being outside in front of witnesses when this happened. When it is inside, there's no telling what his "wife" would tell the police. They tend to believe her before him. He's enraged. She's just having some adult fun with the trainer. Lots of judges look at it that way.


 I won't speculate what a judge or jury may believe or decide, but it would be a kick in the pants if his body camera was rolling.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I won't speculate what a judge or jury may believe or decide, but it would be a kick in the pants if his body camera was rolling.


Sometimes I wish I had a body cam. I don't carry. I don't own any. I believe in your rights to carry and own firearms.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> Wait a minute. If the trainer left the house, why on earth didn't the cop just lock the door when he left? What am I missing?


He was more then likely not expecting the trainer to return. 

Also was arguing with his cheating wife


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

What is the over/under on when divorce papers will be filed?


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

bobert said:


> Do you really think that an AP deserves to be shot and potentially killed? In that case, does the wife deserve to be shot as well? After all, SHE is the one who betrayed her husband - not the AP. Who knows if the AP even knew the full story. It's entirely possible that the wife told the AP all sorts of false stories. The AP could have been under the impression that she was divorcing her drug-addicted, alcoholic, gambling, video game addicted, abusive husband who beats and rapes her if she doesn't check the mail at precisely 2:47PM, or at least when he's not off ****ing other women or banging male prostitutes. We don't know! Even if the AP did know the truth, does he really deserve to get shot for that? Come on. That is revenge, not justice.
> 
> As someone who has been cheated on, I understand the quick emotional reactions and wanting revenge. There is still no excuse. I've been in a fight with an AP and in hindsight, it was beyond stupid and not worth the potential consequences.


Yes they both deserve to be shot and killed. As all adulterers and their accomplices deserve to be. 



> It's entirely possible that the wife told the AP all sorts of false stories. The AP could have been under the impression that she was divorcing her drug-addicted, alcoholic, gambling, video game addicted, abusive husband who beats and rapes her if she doesn't check the mail at precisely 2:47PM, or at least when he's not off ****ing other women or banging male prostitutes


It's also entirely possible that the trainer has done similar with other women he works with which wouldn't be the least bit surprising. Regardless the trainer had no business being in the policemen's house. That alone would've been enough for me to kill him.



uhtred said:


> Yeah, it is weird. The BH with a baseball bat makes sense - angry, irrational. The other way around? Why did the trainer want to beat the BH? (unless the BH was beating his wife or something). Its very strange.
> 
> I'm disturbed by how many people seem to believe that beating someone who is having an affair with your wife is OK.


I'm disturbed by people who think otherwise. :laugh:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

drifting on said:


> I say this as a warning for you in the future, if somebody goes to get a bat and starts to walk towards you, it’s not an invite to play softball or baseball. This trainer left the home, walked to his car, retrieved a bat, then began to walk back towards the home owner. Not sure what’s running through the minds of others, but surely the trainers intent is bad for the home owners health. Shooting him once in the chest is giving this trainer a chance to live. Wonder how the trainers lawyer will say that the trainer had no ill intent towards the homeowner. Then again, maybe the trainer is like Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men and thinks better when he is holding his bat.


Under British law the trainer acted with malice aforethought, in that he decided to return to his car in order to obtain a weapon with which to launch a potentially deadly assault.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Was Mr Trainer taking illegal steroids? That can make people write cheques with their mouths that their body has no way of cashing.


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