# My marriage is over. After last night there is no hope.



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I thought we would survive. I was hopeful. But I am nothing but a liar and a phony according to my wife. 
So I come home yesterday from work I start repairing the banister her mother broke while at the house. I put my phone down and she grabs it while I am fixing the banister. I am home a whole 5 minutes and she tells me I am erasing my history on my phone again. Obviously she has a key logger of some sort on my phone cause I was home literally 5 minutes. I am furious cause I just walked in the door. We yell and scream at each other. I leave cause I know this isn't going to end well.
I sit in my car for two hours clearing my head. Thinking maybe she calmed down. I come home. I try and ignore her so not to fight. Makes it worse. My boys are still up and I don't want them to see us fight. I have been honest with her in the past and she has used it against me and made it about her. So I deny. Bad move. Yes I deleted something off my phone. Something so mundane that's I was stupid to. But honestly I don't know whats appropriate or what's not anymore with this woman. It was a video of the actress from Modern Family doing a photoshoot years ago, no nudity. I knew right away if she sees this she is going to have a fit. It would lead to a blow out. So I erased it. I promised never to erase anything. I did. To protect me from her wrath and her from herself. She knew everything anyway. This leads to our worst fight. I leave again then come home she wants to fight. This goes on from 3:30pm till 2:30am. She finally says she wants a separation I said ok. Thinking everything is over she starts throwing all my clothes out of the drawers, screaming and waking the kids. Mind you she has to leave for work in 3 hours. Things escalate and I grab her to stop and we are now wrestling in the bedroom. I leave again and come home to her passed out in the bedroom.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Now let me explain some of this behavior. We are married ten years. 6 were sort of good. Sexless on her end but no real fighting. She wanted to go to school a year or two after getting married. She worked and went to school part time to become a nurse. I supported her. Did everything, clothes, cleaning, food shopping, paid the bills,you name it I did it. She didn't have to come home and lift a finger. I would call her at work sometimes and beg her at 10 pm on a Friday to come home. Work and school came before me. I basically allowed her to push us into a sexless marriage over the course of 4 years. She stopped taking care of herself, no showering for many days at a time. But I loved her. I figured when all this is done we would get back on track. I always looked at porn throughout my life. While I tried to keep it a secret the signs were there. FHM and Maxim magazines everywhere while we dated. Howard Stern on Deman, friends would joke about porn in front of her. She never told me this was a issue. We would even watch it sometimes while we dated. She never once said she had a problem with it.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Now she finishes school and wants to start a family. I say great. I get what I want, sex,intimacy and some affection, she wants a baby, so did I. We try for a few months, part of me feels that we are only having sex to make a baby. It felt robotic but I at least I am having relations with my wife. Sure enough she is pregnant and then sex totally stops. We go 9 months of no sex. I look at porn more and more. Smartphones make it all too easy. I then get swept up with Facebook. I look up everyone and anyone. Exes, girls from high school, middle school, you name I looked at it. Never ONCE did I contact anyone. My wife knows no of this. She is busy with the kid. She claims I don't pay attention to her and dont help with the baby. That I am always playing with my phone. I tell I have nothing to hide. I never used to erase anything. I really didn't think at the time I did anything wrong. So we get pregnant again right away with our second son. Again 9 months and no sex. I look at porn. I look at Facebook. But this time from the 3rd moth to 9th month my wife is snooping on my phone every night without my knowledge.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She sees the porn, she sees the looking up exes on Facebook. What she never found or was any evidence of me contacting another woman. If I was up to something she would have found it. These 6 months of seeing a man whom she loved look at these things destroyed her. Her self esteem destroyed, her insecurities ruined. I never had a clue until 2 months after our second son was born. Lot of fighting, lots of days going to work with no sleep. I started putting passwords on my phone. Deleting my history. I felt she invading my privacy. Growing up being the youngest of six in a very dis functional home you learn how to hide things. I thought I could but my wife has always been one step ahead of me. Makes believe she has a key logger on my phone. Went to MC for 6 months. Things would get better. I would take the lock off my phone and she would continue to look every night. I began to feel like I was a child and my wife my mother. I quit the porn and the Facebook. But I still have the urge to look. When I tell my wife this, she gets hurt and accuses me that I am fantasing about porn stars and she makes it about her. I explain I am trying to be honest with her but it back fires on me.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Looking on your phone is not snooping. Both my husband and I have access to phone and computer at all times. We literally have nothing to hide and can view any text at any given time.

I know what your wife is doing is wrong(not the transparency with computer/phone), but if my h looked up his exes I'd be completely crushed to the max. There is absolutely no reason to look at ex relationships and wonder what could of been. Looking at strange women is different then looking at exes, there is zero emotional connection. You definitely are being sexually repressed by her which is wrong.

Your marriage did not sound good right from the start. There are many many resentments that are held between the both of you. You both need to reconnect if possible for the marriage to work. You won't last long down this path as you well know.

Have you thought about seeking marriage counseling? Has your wife even attempted to work on the marriage or is it you trying to please her? It sounds like you both need MC and IC.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

We continue with MC for only a short time more. We don't have anyone to watch our boys and we can't keep bringing them to our sessions. We stop and my wife fiinds a job and goes back to work. I tell her I looked at a Cinamax movie while she is at work, she spends 6 hours asking me to explain how that is different from watching hardcore porn. I don't want to open up anymore. I feel if I am honest I am screwed, if I lie I am screwed. I can't be myself.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I do feel sexually repressed. Even though through this my wife and our sex life got 10x better. She realized I was looking at porn as a outlet. I would never chose porn over my wife. Now that we have sex regularly I don't need it. But I still see a beautiful image of a woman and want to look. But I know if she sees it will lead to a fight. So I get caught do we get into a argument over a picture I looked at or do I cover my tracks and erase. I erased. There is no more porn or Facebook.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't want to do this dance anymore with her. I am tired of walking on eggshells. Tired of feeling I am a horrible husband. I thinks it's best we end it. I made mistakes. But my wife has made some horrible choices also but I forgave her for them. She hasn't forgiven me and will never forgive me.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She is working the next three days doing 12 hours days. I am thinking of going to a nearby hotel and staying there with my boys. Give her her space and me time with my boys.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Looking on your phone is not snooping. Both my husband and I have access to phone and computer at all times. We literally have nothing to hide and can view any text at any given time.
> 
> I know what your wife is doing is wrong(not the transparency with computer/phone), but if my h looked up his exes I'd be completely crushed to the max. There is absolutely no reason to look at ex relationships and wonder what could of been. Looking at strange women is different then looking at exes, there is zero emotional connection. You definitely are being sexually repressed by her which is wrong.
> 
> ...


She admitted that she looked up a ex also. But her reasons were more noble than mine. He was in the military and she wanted to know if he was alive. First it was one time, then it was twice. I assume it was way more. I don't really know cause I never looked through her phone or Internet history.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

richie33 said:


> She admitted that she looked up a ex also. But her reasons were more noble than mine. He was in the military and she wanted to know if he was alive. First it was one time, then it was twice. I assume it was way more. I don't really know cause I never looked through her phone or Internet history.


How long ago was this? Maybe she is projecting? Maybe she never stopped talking to him. I think you need to find out.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

No I don't think so. She said she never contacted him. Just googled him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Dude, you need to call her out and stop apologizing for things you do that are not wrong. There's nothing inherently wrong with looking at an ex girlfriend's profile on Facebook. If you were inappropriately speaking with her or obessing over her that would be a problem, but you didn't do that. Stop giving her the fuel to power her negative feedback loop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

For her now its about deleting certain things. She couldn't give a honest answer if it was still on the phone she wouldn't have flipped. It wasn't even porn.
The Facebook thing is gone for a year and half. I was impulsive on there I would at a couple people from my past over and over. Obsessing I don't know. Curious how there life turned out...yes. No intent to contact and leave my wife for. But I was definitely wrong for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

richie33 said:


> No I don't think so. She said she never contacted him. Just googled him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is what she said. Obviously she was VERY interested in finding this guy if she was searching for him more than once. And if she has ill intentions, she is not going to tell you if she found him and they are talking. I'm only telling you this so that you can look at your situation from another view.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I guess I would understand it more if there was another guy. The way I feel today....he could have her. But I know this is more about what she found on my phone when she was pregnant. She obsessed over it. She looked at it everyday all while I had no idea. It destroyed her self esteem.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

File for divorce, stop engaging with her and stop apologizing to her. Find a divorce lawyer and start divorce proceedings. She's not going to change and you both just seem to resent each other. 

Have read most of your recent posts and I haven't seen anything about why you should stay or anything about you taking the steps needed to move on. That is a toxic relationship and it's most likely affecting your kids.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Your right. I have been tap dancing around this too long.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

I jumped here form the other thread. I'm not sure my analysis is any different.

1) You are in a sexless marriage
2) You have nice guy syndrome

With two small kids, you're going to have to make a decision about whether you want out now, or want to give it one last chance. I would give it one last chance, because up till now you've been doing everything wrong. You have finally hit a spot on the web where you'll get some advice that actually works.

This is from a post on another thread, but I think it will apply to you as well:


> You are headed toward (1) a sexless marriage, (2) a cheating spouse, (3) divorce.
> 
> #1 for sure. If you don't turn around #1 QUICKLY, then the likelihood that #2 and #3 occurs is very high.
> 
> ...


Another book you should read is "In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People" by Dr. George Simon. You'll find some of the manipulation tactics your wife is using in here (and once you read this book it will become obvious she is manipulating you), and some techniques to deal with them.

If you decide to give it one more shot, create a thread just for that, and see if you can get some people on board to help you. Try to keep all of your activity on a single thread (creating multiple threads will make it harder for people to find and help you).

Good luck, whatever you decide.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Thank you. Your my boy blue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi,
What I get from your post is that she is VERY insucure with too much time in her hands and very possible she has an over compulsive disorder which she is feeding by keeping her eye on you. She is so terrified that you will cheat that she is basically pushing you away. She wants to catch you on your first move first thought even. 

She needs help even if you leave her, her problem is not going away. She may even supplement you with controlling your children to the point that they won't even know who they are.

Please see if she can get help, by the way is her mother like her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She claims this has nothing to do with cheating. She said she knows I wouldn't cheat. But its about what I look at and either deleting or being angry about the content. I get being angry or disappointed. What I don't understand is the harassment and antagonizing that goes on after the fact. It goes on for hours and days.
Here a example of how different we react. Last year she went out to celebrate her fathers bday for lunch. She leaves with her sister at 11:30am. Throughout the day you can tell she is drinking. I get a call from her mother at 9pm asking me if I heard from her. Her youngest sister called the Mom and said the two older sister ate drunk as hell. That they shouldn't drive. I couldn't go pick them up cause my boys were in bed. So the mother goes and gets them. She comes home at 11:30 wasted. I was pissed but I just wanted her to bes. Next morning she apologized and knew what she did was wrong. I accepted her apology and let it go. If the shoe was on the other foot I would still be hearing about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Here a example of how different we react. Last year she went out to celebrate her fathers bday for lunch. She leaves with her sister at 11:30am. Throughout the day you can tell she is drinking. I get a call from her mother at 9pm asking me if I heard from her. Her youngest sister called the Mom and said the two older sister ate drunk as hell. That they shouldn't drive. I couldn't go pick them up cause my boys were in bed. So the mother goes and gets them. She comes home at 11:30 wasted. I was pissed but I just wanted her to bes. Next morning she apologized and knew what she did was wrong. I accepted her apology and let it go. *If the shoe was on the other foot I would still be hearing about.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nice guy 101. She engages in behavior she would never tolerate out of you, and you passively accept it (because you're a nice guy). Meanwhile, inside you are steaming with anger over the incident, which means you really aren't a nice guy, just pretending to be to be one--which is what all nice guys do. 

To sum it up, all you did was *lie* to your wife about your feelings. Which is not nice (but typical of nice guys).

You might also look up "fitness test" (aka sh!t test). Your wife might have been, deep inside, yearning for you to assert yourself and stand up to her behavior. Women do this (I know it sounds stupid, but they do) all the time. It never ends, and it's not abnormal--it is a very normal thing for women to do. 

The mindset is that if you aren't good enough to stand up to her--to demand that she quit abusing you--then you aren't good enough for her period. Ironically, the more you let her get away with things, the less esteem she has for you and the more she will abuse/test you. Conversely, the less you let her get away with, the more esteem she has for you, and the less she will abuse/test you.

You might also look up the works "confidence" and "independence." These are two traits women regard highly in a man (even a married spouse). The correct answer to her dinging you is to trust your gut. If you don't feel OK in your gut about doing something, then stand your ground and tell her so. If you don't, say your sorry and move on. If she brings it up later, then just point out that it's in the past, and move on.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Don't know if you've read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" or "The Married Man Sex Primer" (it's not just about sex despite the title) but you should read both of them. Like Blue Firefly said you seem to be making alot of "Nice guy" mistakes.

No More Mr. Nice Guy!: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Blue your right. I was steaming man but figured let me let this one go and she will remember the next time I screw up and will let it slide. We all know that never happen. I am nice guy who really isn't so nice. I read the book but didn't really absorb it. Lots of yeah that's me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Blue your right. I was steaming man but figured let me let this one go and she will remember the next time I screw up and will let it slide. We all know that never happen. I am nice guy who really isn't so nice. I read the book but didn't really absorb it. Lots of yeah that's me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unspoken contracts don't work. You made a contract with her (neither of you would criticize the other), but you didn't tell her about it.

So what do you plan to do the next time she brings this up?

It helped me to write things down. Think about in advance how I was going to handle a situation, and then have a written plan (it rarely went according to plan, but at least I had some guidance).

I created a google account and kept my notes in google drive (it has a free online office suite). Zoho.com also has a free online office suite that seems pretty decent.

The point is, don't keep doing this stuff off the top of your head. Think about the outcomes you'd like to see (short term and long term), about how you would handle certain situations, and about how you could have handled ones in the past better (review "what you did wrong" and then devise a plan to handle it better next time).

Work at it, just like you would work at any other goal (like looking for a job). Set aside a little time each day to do planning and to study. Mark your mistakes, correct them, and move on. Just as important, mark what you did right and make sure you keep doing it.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

For tonight I am getting hotel room for me and my sons. I am going to avoid a repeat of last night. She needs to be alone for the night and I need a night away from the situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Checked into a hotel last night. I text her where I was taking the boys. She never responded. Later on claimed she never received it, which happens a lot with her. Calls at 7 demanding I bring the boys home, that she will call the police. Before I took them out of the home I went to the local police station to see if it was against the law to do so.Was told I am the father I am within my rights. I told her to call the police if she likes but I am within my rights and that the house is not a stable environment for my boys if we are both there. So she went on calling me a liar for a few minutes. Feel asleep with my boys but the oldest who is on the autism spectrum keep waking up and crying saying car. That's his way of saying the change is not good for him. He broke my heart seeing him stress like that so I pack the boys up at 2 and brought them home. She was asleep so I made them bottles and they went back to sleep in their cribs. She over slept for work and I had to go wake her up. So for a half hour I was interrogated. This is at 5:30 in the morning. What else am I deleting? I am a liar. It's hard not to fight back. She claims she doesn't have a key logger on my phone. That she went on my phone to look and had a feeling I erased this 1 minute video of the woman from the tv show. Since it wasn't there she knew I was lying. How do I reason with a person like this?
She creates a environment if I look she loses her mind. If I think I am protecting myself and her by deleting she loses her mind. What does it say about my marriage that I have to be in fear to look at something so stupid like a modeling video, which was PG at best?
I tell her I am done with this marriage and her controlling me. She doesn't see she is controlling. She thinks its normal. So now in her head I am looking at porn, looking at woman on Facebook all over again. I can understand that thought process but there is nothing I can tell her she will believe. The other night I opened up my deactivated Facebook account and told her to go through it. I read somewhere on here that you can find out everything a person posted and looked at in their accounts. I told her to go over it and research what I say is true. She just looked at the main page and that's it. She would rather snoop behind my back then do it in front of my face.
This does feel so toxic. I am try to reason with someone who is irrational. Not sure where I want to go from here. She has family out here. It would be easier for her to leave then me. I wouldn't use that against her when we end things. If I do it she will get me on abandonment.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Talk to a lawyer. Maybe you can record her behaviour and get a restraining order on her to keep her away from the house.

Keep in mind that you've helped create this dynamic by making promises to her and then not keeping them. Don't promise something if you're not going to deliver. But she's nucking futs, so it likely would have come down to this anyway. The advice to read and study the two books is a good idea anyway, as that information will likely come in handy in your next relationship. 

C


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

PBear I agree 100%. My actions caused this but her reaction to it has been so over the top. I can't even reason with her. I haven't been myself in 2 years. Walking on eggshells this long as screw me up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi, 
Change is hard for children with autism, however you can manage it. Is he in school or in therapy? If so, let them know that you are going through problems ask them for help on how to work with your child. It might be as simple as a picture schedule for him to adapt. I have received so much help from my sons teachers. Even when planing a trip. There are also websites that you can download pictures and picture stories. 

I will insist that she sounds very unstable and she really needs to get help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

richie33 said:


> PBear I agree 100%. My actions caused this but her reaction to it has been so over the top. I can't even reason with her. I haven't been myself in 2 years. *Walking on eggshells this long as screw me up*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And it is taking a toll on your children now. They are in an uncomfortable environment. Use your autistic son as a guage.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

He is in early intervention. He is 2.5 years old. We have 25 hours a week of therapy. I work full time and so does she. We schedule everything around the help. 
She doesn't have health insurance but I do. I would never want to take that away from her. She can go back to her therapist anytime she wants. But I am done asking her to go back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Richie33... from all you have shared, what choice do you really have... a LIFE walking on eggshells trying to reason with an obsessed irrational woman who can not see her own faults...ther is nothing she is offering to give you any hope....You have bowed to her for years.... Her getting wasted that night... you forgave it easily... you know damn well she wouldn't... NO, this behavior is pure through & through unacceptable... 

Given your sexlessness, many men would have fell into an EA somewhere along the line.. she doesn't realize how blessed she is at all! 

It's a shame kids are involved, but every child needs a "whole" parent... if a separation/divorce will bring about your freedom to find yourself and not be under her controlling spell of misery, then this is where you need to tread. 

A little from the Nice Guy Book here >>
Taken from  No More Mr. Nice Guy! 

Here is a list of NICE GUY Characteristics - Most guys have a few of these, but the headed for doormat status "NICE guys"- posses these in abundance . 



> Nice Guys are Givers
> 
> Nice Guys fix & Caretake
> 
> ...


There is problems with each one of those -the motivation behind the doing is the issue. What is happening is -- These men have been conditioned to believe that if they are "NICE" they will be loved, get their needs met and have a smooth life. 

Here is the "not-so nice" traits of Nice Guys ...



> Nice guys can be Dishonest, secretive, compartmentalized, manipulative, controlling, they give to get, passive aggressive, some are full of rage, additive, have difficulty setting boundaries, frequently isolated, often attracted to people & situations that need fixing, frequently have problems in intimate relationships, have issues with sexuality, usually only relatively successful .


 She sounds she has a magnitude of insecurity issues - old boyfriend betrayal perhaps? and this followed her into marriage? You've went the Marriage counseling route.... Can the 2 of you manage to talk at all -without it turning into an "accusing" fest ? 

What does SHE really want?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks Simply for taking time to read it. 
I hope tonight when she gets home we can have a civil conversation. I am not hopeful after her outburst this morning. For what she wants...she wants me to never delete anything....ever. I will walk you through my thought process of why would I delete a video like the one I did Friday. I have told her in the past I thought the woman from the show Modern Family was attractive. The video showed her modeling swimwear when she was a model not actress. I immediately after looking at it feel guilty, what will she do when she sees that I looked at it, another woman who I find attractive. So a bit of paranioa sets in cause I know when she sees it a fight is sure to happen. So I delete it from my history, thinking I can avoid the fight. Not knowing my wife has a key logger on my phone or as she contends that she will look at sites that I go to and see something that she thinks will catch my eye and then wait forvmevto come home to check my phone to see if I looked. If its not there I am deleting my history if it is I will catch hell also. She was right this time. I did it. I am sorry that I lied but I am not sorry for all my feelings on what caused me to delete. This is what she doesn't see. That this her way of controlling me. I should have from the very start of this said I can't promise you I will not look at images of other woman. It doesn't mean I don't love you, doesn't mean I am disrespecting you. But I think all those months while pregnant she found out the man who she thought was perfect and innocent wasn't really that way. It did something to her mentally. I am sorry for that. But I can't promise to be a man who I am not. I am R rated and she want a PG rated husband. I notice beautiful woman. I shouldn't be embarrassed or shamed into thinking its wrong. I have been made to feel this way for almost two years. And we are raising two boys...two boys who will one day have a Playboy under there bed. I don't want them to be shamed like I have and be told how wrong it is.
She says she wants a separation. I dont see how that will help. If I leave find a place on my own she will be constantly stuck thinking what I am up too. Not good for her. Unfortunately I think divorce is our only option. It's a shame cause I really do love her and I know she loves me but it's in a unhealthy way.


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## Spiderman (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi Richie33, sorry you have to go through all of that 

I think you got it, she saw stuff on your phone while being pregnant and it messed her up in her head. And yes, she was holding you on a pedestal, believing you to be somebody you are not. When she found out, the whole marriage changed because she felt like you had lied to her. The truth is, she lied to herself, she made up a picture of you without finding out what you are really like and then she was disappointed.
Now, I think she is panicking, she is scared what else did she miss. Obviously she has big self esteem issues now and with controlling you she tries to avoid more pain. Unfortunately this makes your life as hell because it is not your fault that she had a different picture in her mind and now she is trying to change you into it. As you can see, even if you do it, then she will still not believe, to avoid pain.

Basically it doesn't matter what you will do now or don't, the way she sees everything is shadowed by her own lack of confidence and low self esteem, she is too scared to get hurt so she tries to see every sign (which is not there most of the time) to prevent it, to attack you before "you attack her". Unfortunately you are not able to fix that for her, being a nice guy or not. Whether you stay together or not, she needs to find help and get herself out of that hole. It doesn't matter that she blames you because blaming doesn't really fix anything, she still needs to work on herself to get out of it. If she can't see that then unfortunately there is nothing you can do either and the situation becomes more and more painful for you too.

Lots of arguments in non-functional marriages are "a game" with the purpose of finding the "guilty one" and not really solving the situation. Both sides get so absorbed with their pain that they will not be able to team up and find the way out of it. The same pattern repeats itself every time and there's even more pain involved. You have to notice when the "game begins" and not go with it. Probably you both need to work on yourselves separately and together to get over it.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Saddest part for me is that I truly love this woman and I know she really loves me. But it's becomes unhealthy. It's hard to think positive when I feel like I am public enemy number one in my own home.
I think about my boys and one day not being able to see their beautiful faces every day breaks my heart. I hope tonight goes well.


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## Spiderman (Oct 29, 2012)

I hope so too. 

Sometimes loving somebody is not enough. It is hard to believe isn't it. I'm going through the same, though not as bad as your situation... yet. Moving there slowly - sexless marriage due to his what-ever-reasons and now there are signs that he is checking my stuff, there's nothing to find of course but that's not the point, is it ;( He hasn't taken real steps to fix things, only reading couple of books and giving lots of promises. He probably thinks that he has done heaps but trying to overcome things on his own hasn't made it better really. So that's where he stops. It's easy not to go to the bottom of things on your own but no changes are to be expected then. 

Fingers crossed for you!!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Spiderman said:


> Hi Richie33, sorry you have to go through all of that
> 
> I think you got it, she saw stuff on your phone while being pregnant and it messed her up in her head. And yes, she was holding you on a pedestal, believing you to be somebody you are not. When she found out, the whole marriage changed because she felt like you had lied to her. The truth is, she lied to herself, she made up a picture of you without finding out what you are really like and then she was disappointed.
> Now, I think she is panicking, she is scared what else did she miss. Obviously she has big self esteem issues now and with controlling you she tries to avoid more pain. Unfortunately this makes your life as hell because it is not your fault that she had a different picture in her mind and now she is trying to change you into it. As you can see, even if you do it, then she will still not believe, to avoid pain.
> ...



Wow! Never in my life have I read such a great explanation to this type of situation. Even though this is for Richie I agree with everything you wrote. Thank you.
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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Yes it was spot on for me also. She came home last night much calmer than the past two days. Its going to sound like a excuse but by 10pm last night I was exhausted. I think I slept like 5 hours the past two days. We talked but she felt like I shut her down cause I got defensive. I just didn't have to energy for a 12 round boxing match. I heard a lot of the same stuff. She doesn't want to see my point that no matter what I do I am wrong. All she is stuck on is I said I would never delete anything no matter what the content. She doesn't see that this behavior of checking on me day in and day out is unhealthy. Looking for something to find. Its warped her perception. 
In the past I have said on this very site that the way to go in a marriage is transparency. Again she knows I am on this forum so she reads everything I write on here. So now I am a phony for saying transparency. I still agree its the way to go in a healthy one. My marriage is not healthy. The times I have come to her with honesty and my feelings she made it about her and found a way to start a argument. Its hard to be 100% transparent when your spouse is not going to believe what you say no matter what.
My mind is all over the place. We still haven't figured out what we are going to do. I don't want to jump to a divorce. We have a lot of history together. I also feel its my fault she is the way she is and its my responsibility to fix that. Not sure if I will ever be able.
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## Spiderman (Oct 29, 2012)

richie33 said:


> My mind is all over the place. We still haven't figured out what we are going to do. I don't want to jump to a divorce. We have a lot of history together. I also feel its my fault she is the way she is and its my responsibility to fix that. Not sure if I will ever be able.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear Richie33 

You probably know already what I'm going to say about your responsibility  But I'll tell you anyway, maybe it will help you to understand the situation quicker so there will be less suffering in the long term.

Nobody should *jump* to divorce ever, I agree with that. Even if there were some actions from your side which changed her the way she is now, then now it is up to her to take actions to change the way she sees things, to learn to trust you again. You ARE already doing what you can but she doesn't recognize it because she is trying very hard to find something, she has chosen not to see it and I think she doesn't realize herself that she is doing it. You can feel that it is your responsibility to fix that as much as you want, my dear fellow, you simply cannot 

How about you find counselling yourself? How about you tell her that you will go to counselor because you want to fix the marriage (which is true) and after you have discussed the situation in your session you tell your wife that you really need her input just to understand deeply how she feels etc so that you can do work with yourself. Maybe this would be a way to get her there? Because it seems that she is not taking any responsibility on her actions because she is too busy with blaming you and pitting herself (and I mean no offence here to her too, because we can all act awfully without seeing it). Unfortunately it DOES take both of you to fix the marriage, one alone cannot 

Now I just remembered that she reads everything you write in here too, so she has actually read this tread? hmm. that is NOT normal and I would NOT accept it! There must be a place and time where you need to find yourself safe, without her controlling you, otherwise this safe place will be very soon with another woman 

About transparency. I understand what you are saying if you say that marriage should be transparent. However, over time I have learnt there are exceptions  

Example: Sorry if it's TMI  I live in a pretty much sexless marriage, right. For about 4 years now. I have never cheated my husband despite the fact that there are lots of days when I feel like climbing up the wall, I am HD, masturbating is not the same unfortunately. Ok. Let's say I would go out with my friends and there is this gorgeous man! Ohhh I wish, I dream, maybe even a flirt. Main point, I will not do anything other than dream. I will NOT tell my husband about it. Why should I take a risk that he feels threatened over something which wasn't there!

Same with my phone. I would not let him know that this actor is super hot and then had his pics on my phone. Because the other person can't see into your mind, can't see that this is harmless, they will invent stories according to their previous life experiences or what ever else. If you have strong relationship and your wife feels secure then she doesn't need to check after you, she wouldn't care about any of the pics or you watching porn. She would probably think that all men do it and it doesn't have any bad effects on your view of her and your marriage. If there are problems, she feels insecure, then she sees everything completely differently. Feeling of insecurity is in herself and she and only she can fix it. At this point I'm afraid the marriage turns to hell for both sides


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks Spiderman for taking time to respond. We had a very civil conversation last night. I kept my mouth shut and let her talk without interrupting her. I think she appreciates that but her thoughts were all over the place. In her defense she's a nurse so she just came off a 3 day 13 hour shift rotation. She is physically and mentally exhausted. 
She doesn't know where stand or where we go from here. At this point I am going to let her decide where this goes. If its MC, I am in. If she thinks its best I stay at a hotel or friends for awhile I will oblige. She has to remember how important I am in the family dynamic. Without me there it may give her a idea of how important I am to her. My wife doesn't drive. Relies on me for a lot. I do all the shopping. I deposit the checks. Kids need milk, she needs cigerrettes. I am the guy that gets up and goes. I don't want to sound like I am holding this over her head. I am just stating a fact. Life will change for both of us but I am way more equipped for change. I lived on my own basically since I was 17. She never has. It was from her mothers house to my apartment. 
I left home for the military at 17 due to my dysfunctional family, my mother especially. She was/ is very abusive to her kids and my father. I saw a lot of bad behavior as a kid. My father was basically emasculated in front of his kids at a early age. It has affected me. When my wife starts a argument with me. I can't stay silent. I don't want to be my father. Even to this day I have no feelings for him except sorrow. Ihate conflict. When voices are raised I tense up. I have told my wife this over and over. I told her last night if she ever felt scared of me that I would feel horrible. That I would have to make some serious changes in my life. I told her I feel nervous and scared when she walks in the room. Not scared physically. Scared of the conflict, antagonizing, the waking me up constantly from arguing. Scared that when push comes to shove I will react and end up in jail. Hopefully she let's that settle in her head and really want to change. I don't know where the anger comes from. Its a normal reaction to be hurt. But the anger I don't get.
Someone asked what was her mother like. That's not my story to tell but my opinion is she makes my mother look like a angel. 
I am sure my wife read this thread last night. So I am sure she will be debate me over it. What she doesn't get is this is my story to tell. She can open up, open a account, post her own story. I am sure it would be therapeutic for her. That she needs to open up more. Put herself out there more. Release some of this to a friend, family member, strangers on the internet. When I first came here I got some feedback that I didn't particularly like but after I let it soak in I appreciated it.
Spiderman I feel bad for your sexless marriage. I know what it feels like. I also know I will never allow it again in my life. Your husband needs to be woken up with the fact he is going to lose you if he doesn't make changes. I wouldnt care if my wife watched porn, has picture of a celebrity on her phone, was on Facebook friends with a high school boyfriend. I trust her to do the right thing. And if she didn't I would know its a character flaw on her part. I wouldnt be to blame. I don't know jealousy. I know my wife is a attractive woman. I know men think the same. She knows how to handle the situation. 
Her insecurities and low self esteem are hers and hers alone. I don't know how to help her fix that. Me telling her I love her, how beautiful she is doesn't help. She doesn't believe me.Thinks I am not attracted to her, don't like her body, etc. I don't know how to combat those comments. The only tools I know is to tell her I love her, being affectionate, being a selfless lover. I am rambling again. But I find this site therapeutic.
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