# New and looking for help from other WSs



## Selena (Aug 2, 2013)

I've been married for 15 years. My husband found out a few days ago that I have been having an affair for the last 15 months. He is devastated and I am devastated that I could do this to him. I am honestly answering his questions (as difficult and ugly as this is). I know I need to stop the affair immediately and do whatever necessary to repair the damage I've done. I'm struggling with many things but these are the issues that are sticking out for me and I am wondering if other wayward spouses can chime and tell me if what I am thinking and feeling is normal or if it is a real sign that I should not be married/I am just a terrible person beyond help.

1. On Dday dh and I both cried and talked for hours. But the thing I was most upset about was the loss of my affair. I am heartbroken over it and so sad that I have to give it up (and I am giving it up). In my head I was thinking about any way I could possibly see him one more time. I know intellectually this is wrong but this is where my head was. Dday was 2 days ago and I have not had contact with my affair yet - he knows nothing. It isn't uncommon for us to go a few days during the week without contact but I know I will hear from him today and I am trying so hard to be strong and just end it cleanly. But if I am honest I want to see him. I wish I didn't feel this way.

2. My dh wants and needs reassurance from me that I love him and want to remain married to him. I do. But if I am honest I have and continue to feel very disconnected from him - of course being in a physical and emotional affair with someone else can lead to this. I haven't felt a connection to dh for several years but I can't say that to him now - he is broken and I just want to make it better. This morning he asked me if I have passion towards him. the answer is no. I'd love to get it back, but right now I just feel guilt, shame, despair, and heartbreak. Is this normal?

3. I do want to stay married. I am willing to go to counseling, to be transparent, to be around and to not do things that will make my dh more unsure and unsafe in our relationship. Right now though I feel like I am just going through motions that I know are necessary. I'm not feeling it yet. I am mourning the loss of my affair, and the loss of any privacy and freedom that I had. I know I put myself here and that I lost those privileges in my marriage as a result of my actions. But I read many threads where the WS immediately feels remorse and no feelings towards the affair partner any longer once they see the hurt they have caused their spouse. I can't say that yet.

4. I think my dh wants me to demonize my affair partner. I can't do that yet either. I wish I could in my own mind, it would make this a lot easier. but I still feel the same towards him.

Am I still in a fog or am I beyond help? Thanks


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Yes. Deep in the fog. Why do you want to stay in your marriage if you don't love and respect your husband? Please don't lie to yourself and say that you do, because people that love and respect their spouses don't betray them in the cruelest way possible for over a year. 

If you want to find and salvage some shred of human decency within yourself, it's going to be a long road, and if your husband has any sense, you will be walking down that road without him. 

Do not contact your affair partner. HE IS NOT A GOOD GUY. He is a selfish, rotten piece of human excreta that was happy to assist you in destroying your marriage. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you might exit the fog. Seek IC and MC. Refer your husband here, or at least to some of the literature here, so he can recover.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Yes you are in the affair fog. It releases brain chemicals just like a drug addiction. You will go through withdrawal sorry.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

How did your h find out? Did he go through your phone or the phone records?


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

First, let me ask...if you were not caught would you still be having an affair?

And how did your husband find out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Selena (Aug 2, 2013)

My husband found out by going through my computer and phone records. When confronted I confessed.

The answer is yes, if I were not caught I would be continuing the affair. Although telling myself for months that I needed to end it, I did not. It is almost a relief now that my husband knows. 

I want to believe that I can be a better person for my husband and my children. BK23 if what you say is true than I don't think many of us who have cheated have any hope. I want to have hope.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Do you have any idea how much you have hurt your husband? Think for a long time about how you would feel if he had the affair like you did. How would you feel? You are still thinking about yourself and your affair partner. You are being very selfish and need to think about the pain your husband has from the stab in his heart.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If it was the other way around I'm sure you would have kicked him out right let's be honest.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Send your AP a no contact letter. Let you husband read it, approve it, and mail it. No sentimentality, no goodbye's; just that you love your husband, are ashamed of what you did, and that he is to never contact you again - and that if he does you will file harassment charges. 

Then, send your husband here. We'll take it from there.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Selena said:


> My husband found out by going through my computer and phone records. When confronted I confessed.
> 
> The answer is yes, if I were not caught I would be continuing the affair. Although telling myself for months that I needed to end it, I did not. It is almost a relief now that my husband knows.
> 
> I want to believe that I can be a better person for my husband and my children. BK23 if what you say is true than I don't think many of us who have cheated have any hope. I want to have hope.


Honestly, you don't have a lot of hope. Not "no hope" but not a lot. You and your boyfriend did this to your husband, your family, and your marriage. 

You haven't said why you would want to stay with your husband? Security? familiarity? Kids? If your reasons for staying are at all compelling, why did you risk the marriage? Like I said, you need a lot more than internet an message board to unravel how terribly far you've let yourself sink. Seek therapy.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Why are you staying with your husband(sic)? Come on now! You know that you don't love him, you don't respect him, your really don't want to have sex with him! What is the point? Really?
You should be the "Bigger Man here" and leave him, tell him that you are sorry and never speak to him again.
Just my 2 cents. David


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Well, at least you were honest with us here in the internet unknown.

That's a positive point for you.

I think if you also start being forthright with your husband, it'll go a long way for you in trying to be a decent person again.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't have time to post, at length, right now. But, what you've shared of your story, so far, sounds a great deal like my first post on TAM in June, 2012. I, too, had a 15 month EA/PA. Mine was after 27 years of marriage. 

TAM is a very challenging environment for a WS, but if you can stick it out, you will, likely, come out on the other side better for it. This is unbelievely difficult whether you are the WS, the BS, the children of the WS and the BS or the extended family. I don't envy you right now, but I certainly can emphathizse with what you're going through. I was there, myself, just 14 months ago. My husband and I are reconciling and are doing exceptionally well, especially considering the depth of my betrayal and the horrific state our marriage was already in prior to the start of my EA/PA. The amount of time, effort and energy, that is required for a successful reconciliation is so all-consuming that unless both spouses put 100% of their effort into it, I don't believe that a healthy reconciliation is possible. I'm going to post a link to my original thread. There is too much to read all of it, but if you and your husband do choose to attempt reconciliation then it might be worth skimming through. My husband, B1, also has 2 threads of his own. He started his first thread a couple of days after mine. He started his 2nd thread in August last year. It's on this forum and it's called "Reconciliation." Several people who are in various states of reconciliation share their ongoing journeys on that thread. But, right now you need to keep posting on your own thread so you will receive advice tailored just for you. Stay on TAM, keep reading the various stories, and start communicating, honestly, with your husband. You will be sorely tempted to trickle truth the information to him. Don't. It will only prolong the suffering for both of you. 

I do have a few questions. Why do you want to reconcile? How many children do you have? What are their ages? Is your AP married? Did you and your AP have "plans" for the future or was this the plan? Do you desire to reconcile with your husband only because your AP will not commit to you? Do you work outside of the home? And, finally, does your husband know your AP? The answers will help guide others in their advice to you. 

You're going to hear a lot of hurtful comments, here. You will have to decide what advice you find to be helpful and what comments to ignore. But, remember, just because something is hurtful doesn't mean it isn't helpful. By the same token, just because someone says something is the gospel, undisputed truth, it doesn't necessarily make it so. 

Here's the link to my original thread:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/48469-how-much-detail.html


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> An affair going on that long...He will leave you. and good for him.


Not necessarily.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

EI said:


> I don't have time to post, at length, right now. But, what you've shared of your story, so far, sounds a great deal like my first post on TAM in June, 2012. I, too, had a 15 month EA/PA. Mine was after 27 years of marriage.
> 
> TAM is a very challenging environment for a WS, but if you can stick it out, you will, likely, come out on the other side better for it. This is unbelievely difficult whether you are the WS, the BS, the children of the WS and the BS or the extended family. I don't envy you right now, but I certainly can emphathizse with what you're going through. I was there, myself, just 14 months ago. My husband and I are reconciling and are doing exceptionally well, especially considering the depth of my betrayal and the horrific state our marriage was already in prior to the start of my EA/PA. The amount of time, effort and energy, that is required for a successful reconciliation is so all-consuming that unless both spouses put 100% of their effort into it, I don't believe that a healthy reconciliation is possible. I'm going to post a link to my original thread. There is too much to read all of it, but if you and your husband do choose to attempt reconciliation then it might be worth skimming through. My husband, B1, also has 2 threads of his own. He started his first thread a couple of days after mine. He started his 2nd thread in August last year. It's on this forum and it's called "Reconciliation." Several people who are in various states of reconciliation share their ongoing journeys on that thread. But, right now you need to keep posting on your own thread so you will receive advice tailored just for you. Stay on TAM, keep reading the various stories, and start communicating, honestly, with your husband. You will be sorely tempted to trickle truth the information to him. Don't. It will only prolong the suffering for both of you.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind this is her version. I bet he is not doing as well as she says. It will take years for him to recover if ever, and the longer the affair the harder for it to overcome for the BS.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Selena

If you truly love your husband you will stay No Contact with the OM.

And you are experiencing very "foggy" thinking but this is quite normal.

Be grateful that your husband still wants to be married to you and keep your family together.

Please keep in mind that your affair not only hurts your husband but your kids as well.

Do you work with the OM?

Are you going to send a No Contact letter to him from both you and your husband?

Is the OM married as well?

And while your H might be Pro reconciliation right now, his emotions will be all over the place shortly.

good Luck, wear your thick skin here and keep posting. There are many here that will give you advice.

Go check out EI's threads to see what it really takes to heal your husband and marriage....

HM64


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## xOW (Mar 12, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> The AP chose to be with a person that was married. They deserve nothing but a brutal beating from the BS. Give me a break. Others please chime in here. This lady just told the WS to go against the BS wishes and contact the AP so the AP can feel better.. laughable but understandable considering the source.
> listen to her advice or that of others like her and you will lose your husband and rightfully so


Am not telling her to spend one last night with him... Just to have the decency of breaking things off in a way that doesn't leave her AP feeling suicidal because of the disconnect between her words and actions. Two days ago she was probably in bed with him saying "I love you" and now you are telling her to send him a "don't contact me ever again" letter.

Yes, he made a big mistake getting involved with her but if she plans on staying married she has definitely been playing him, which will hurt him enough. No need to be so harsh too.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

xOW said:


> Am not telling her to spend one last night with him... Just to have the decency of breaking things off in a way that doesn't leave her AP feeling suicidal because of the disconnect between her words and actions. Two days ago she was probably in bed with him saying "I love you" and now you are telling her to send him a "don't contact me ever again" letter.
> 
> Yes, he made a big mistake getting involved with her but if she plans on staying married she has definitely been playing him, which will hurt him enough. No need to be so harsh too.


Maybe he has earned some hurt.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

xOW said:


> Yes, because the AP who has been manipulated, told they were loved, who have given their heart to someone who kept promising a future together, should be dumped like they meant absolutely nothing even though it is clearly not the case. Why? So the BS can have some sort of revenge on the person their spouse loved more than them?
> 
> This is the opposite of what happened to me FYI but the thought of anyone encouraging such a brutal way to break things off with someone who is hurting just as badly as the BS is simply cruel.
> 
> Selena - have some consideration. At least tell your AP the truth and explain why you choose your passionless marriage over your relationship with him, which seemed to make you very happy up until Dday... It'll at least have the benefit of giving him some closure so he can move on and never look back.


Jesus wept ......... I thought I'd seen it all

dear dear me that poor poor unhappy affair partner !!


Uuuuuuuuurrrggggggggh!!


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Keep in mind this is her version. I bet he is not doing as well as she says. It will take years for him to recover if ever, and the longer the affair the harder for it to overcome for the BS.


Her husband posts here. You can ask him yourself. Check out EI's sig. They have worked darn hard to get where they are. 

Selena (love the name) I am a fWW who felt an ENORMOUS disconnect from my husband. What I realized was that I WANTED to be in love with him, but I wasn't feeding the relationship in a way that would allow that. So I was expending energy on om, and falling for him, rather than directing that where it belonged. 

If you aren't spending time together fulfilling your needs, as in *HIS* and yours, then you will not feel in love. If you aren't having sex, talking, enjoying each other, you will not connect. Period. 

The first step is NC. You cannot fix your marriage while in contact with om. No ifs, ands, or buts. Close it off. Change phone number, email address, MOVE if you have to. Have your husband help you. I gave my husband all passwords to any account I had. When om called me after I initially cut him off, I knew I wasn't going to stop talking to him unless he couldn't find a way to contact me. 

The second step is being HONEST. Tell him everything he needs to know. Write a timeline. Do not let him linger with mind movies that could be worse than the reality. 

The third step is letting him see that you are willing to do the hard work. When he gets angry (angry, NOT hitting or going berserk) you will be there to listen and support him. My husband still gets mad and yells and asks me why I let myself get involved with another man. I don't argue with him. I work hard at not being defensive. But he knows if he puts hands on me, then that's it. 

The hardest thing for me was thinking of om, wondering how he felt, analyzing his motives to death. That just kept him at the forefront of my mind. It set me back so many times. I cried alone at night because I wanted to see him or hear his voice or have someone excited to be with me. 

Don't do it. Cut it off. Retrain your brain. Do something nice for your family. Do something useful. Do something fun. Do not wallow in thoughts of him. 

I hope you come back. There are some helpful fWWs here who want nothing more than to see another woman become a better wife, mother, and person.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You stated the following: "I am devastated that I could do this to him (husband)." The reality is that this is not true. You have been screwing your lover behind your husband's back for 15 months now also putting your husband's health at risk for STD's. In addition, you state that you had absolutely no intention of ending the affair at all.

The true statement is: You were devastated to be caught and forced to end your affair. You are devastated to have to suffer any consequences for your actions. You are devastated that your life style may be decreased if your husband leaves you as he should.

If the roles were reversed, how would you feel about such blatant humiliation, disrespect and absolute scorn toward you?


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

I think you should just call it what it is (Exit Affair) and start the path towards separation. If it's his feelings you're worried about, I can guarantee it's a lot easier to get over a divorce than to find out you started back up again.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

EI said:


> I don't have time to post, at length, right now. But, what you've shared of your story, so far, sounds a great deal like my first post on TAM in June, 2012. I, too, had a 15 month EA/PA. Mine was after 27 years of marriage.
> 
> TAM is a very challenging environment for a WS, but if you can stick it out, you will, likely, come out on the other side better for it. This is unbelievely difficult whether you are the WS, the BS, the children of the WS and the BS or the extended family. I don't envy you right now, but I certainly can emphathizse with what you're going through. I was there, myself, just 14 months ago. My husband and I are reconciling and are doing exceptionally well, especially considering the depth of my betrayal and the horrific state our marriage was already in prior to the start of my EA/PA. The amount of time, effort and energy, that is required for a successful reconciliation is so all-consuming that unless both spouses put 100% of their effort into it, I don't believe that a healthy reconciliation is possible. I'm going to post a link to my original thread. There is too much to read all of it, but if you and your husband do choose to attempt reconciliation then it might be worth skimming through. My husband, B1, also has 2 threads of his own. He started his first thread a couple of days after mine. He started his 2nd thread in August last year. It's on this forum and it's called "Reconciliation." Several people who are in various states of reconciliation share their ongoing journeys on that thread. But, right now you need to keep posting on your own thread so you will receive advice tailored just for you. Stay on TAM, keep reading the various stories, and start communicating, honestly, with your husband. You will be sorely tempted to trickle truth the information to him. Don't. It will only prolong the suffering for both of you.
> 
> ...





nogutsnoglory said:


> *Keep in mind this is her version. *I bet he is not doing as well as she says. It will take years for him to recover if ever, and the longer the affair the harder for it to overcome for the BS.


I apologize in advance for this thread jack, but "noguts," no one has to accept *my version* because *his version* is all over this forum. 

I don't know your story, and I may have been a WW, at one point, but I wasn't your WW. So, perhaps you should stop projecting. 

Finally, my husband's most recent and, likely, final post on his "Reconciliation" thread, dated July 27, 2013.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation-614.html#post3355834

Feel free to read it and see how HE thinks he (and we) is doing.

Take care,
~EI


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

xOW said:


> Yes, because the AP who has been manipulated, told they were loved, who have given their heart to someone who kept promising a future together, should be dumped like they meant absolutely nothing even though it is clearly not the case. Why? So the BS can have some sort of revenge on the person their spouse loved more than them?
> 
> This is the opposite of what happened to me FYI but the thought of anyone encouraging such a brutal way to break things off with someone who is hurting just as badly as the BS is simply cruel.
> 
> Selena - have some consideration. At least tell your AP the truth and explain why you choose your passionless marriage over your relationship with him, which seemed to make you very happy up until Dday... It'll at least have the benefit of giving him some closure so he can move on and never look back.


You want the BS to have sympathy for the affair partner? You have got to be kidding. Where was the sympathy towards the BS all the time you were cheating?

The no contact letter is not about revenge. It's about ending the affair in one step.

No BS should stay with a WS who lingers on with the affair, going back and forth. So if the WS decides to work on the marriage, the end of the affair needs to be done in a way that ends all contact. 

The AP knows that such an end can come at any time. That’s the nature of affairs. If you don’t want to find a no contact letter in your inbox someday, don’t have an affair with a married person. It’s pretty simple really.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Selena,

As you see, some here are going to give you a pretty hard time. Take the advice that helps and leave the rest. You will need thick skin.

You two can rebuild your connection. MC can help if you find a good MC. I also recommend the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters". If you and your husband read them and do the work you can come out of this to have a very strong, passionate and happy marriage.


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

Be honest with him about your feeling's, wish my wife was. I can take the truth but being dishonest about how you feel won't lead you down a good path.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

If you want any chance to save your marriage you need to pull the plug on the OM. There is no OM from from now on. It may seem hard but you will come to your senses and be glad you ended it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

xOW said:


> Yes, because the AP who has been manipulated, told they were loved, who have given their heart to someone who kept promising a future together, should be dumped like they meant absolutely nothing even though it is clearly not the case. Why? So the BS can have some sort of revenge on the person their spouse loved more than them?


Uhm. What? Wait. 

So you're saying I get involved with a MARRIED person and I deserve something? Closure? Because I was foolish enough to believe we had some kind of future together?




xOW said:


> This is the opposite of what happened to me FYI but the thought of anyone encouraging such a brutal way to break things off with someone who is hurting just as badly as the BS is simply cruel.


OMG. 

An AP, like the WS, is the perpetrator of family destruction and most likely severely compromising the mental health of both children and adults. 

AP and WSs often ruin lives. 


xOW said:


> Selena - have some consideration. At least tell your AP the truth and explain why you choose your passionless marriage over your relationship with him, which seemed to make you very happy up until Dday... It'll at least have the benefit of giving him some closure so he can move on and never look back.


Had this AP not known she was married, I think that would be reasonable. 

However, in all corners of the world since the dawn of civilization it's known getting involved with a married person is just asking for trouble. 

Spinning this that the AP is somehow a victim is silly. BSs and the BSs children are victims. Knowingly made so by the callous actions of grown adults who for whatever reason decide their own needs matter more than those of others. 

If a spouse feels passionless, leave. Do not trample the lives of others anymore than necessary for your "happiness" and "needs of excitement".

What a world we live in.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

Selena said:


> 2. My dh wants and needs reassurance from me that I love him and want to remain married to him. I do. But if I am honest I have and continue to feel very disconnected from him - of course being in a physical and emotional affair with someone else can lead to this. I haven't felt a connection to dh for several years but I can't say that to him now - he is broken and I just want to make it better. This morning he asked me if I have passion towards him. the answer is no.
> 
> _Then quit stringing your husband along and tell him the truth. You don't love him, period. There's nothing more to say. _
> 
> ...


You tell us.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

xOW said:


> Am not telling her to spend one last night with him... Just to have the decency of breaking things off in a way that doesn't leave her AP feeling suicidal because of the disconnect between her words and actions. Two days ago she was probably in bed with him saying "I love you" and now you are telling her to send him a "don't contact me ever again" letter.
> 
> Yes, he made a big mistake getting involved with her but if she plans on staying married she has definitely been playing him, which will hurt him enough. No need to be so harsh too.


I think her lover, the affair partner, deserves to feel "suicidal". His own fault for getting involved with a married woman with kids.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Selena said:


> I've been married for 15 years. My husband found out a few days ago that I have been having an affair for the last 15 months. He is devastated and I am devastated that I could do this to him. I am honestly answering his questions (as difficult and ugly as this is). I know I need to stop the affair immediately and do whatever necessary to repair the damage I've done. I'm struggling with many things but these are the issues that are sticking out for me and I am wondering if other wayward spouses can chime and tell me if what I am thinking and feeling is normal or if it is a real sign that I should not be married/I am just a terrible person beyond help.
> 
> 1. On Dday dh and I both cried and talked for hours. But the thing I was most upset about was the loss of my affair. I am heartbroken over it and so sad that I have to give it up (and I am giving it up). In my head I was thinking about any way I could possibly see him one more time. I know intellectually this is wrong but this is where my head was. Dday was 2 days ago and I have not had contact with my affair yet - he knows nothing. It isn't uncommon for us to go a few days during the week without contact but I know I will hear from him today and I am trying so hard to be strong and just end it cleanly. But if I am honest I want to see him. I wish I didn't feel this way.
> 
> ...


You are in the fog. You are not beyond help.

Volunteer to get STD tests done for your husband. You don't have STDs? Well, that's nice. Get the tests done, anyway to help put your husband's mind at rest.

What should you tell your husband? Whatever he wants to know. Don't trickle truth, tell him what he wants, when he wants it.

But don't force the issue. Don't break his heart with TMI, i.e., with stuff he doesn't want to know. *I wanted no details whatsoever of my wife's affair. None*. 

You will need to help him. You broke his heart. Please do your best to unbreak it. Not easy, is it?


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

As a former WS my thing was, I was addicted to the texting with ex OM. I changed my text sound and started texting with my husband. Find something to do with your time. New habits. Put you mind on making your husband your first priority. Take care of him, he needs a lot of tender loving genuine care. Do everything you can to get the passion back. I mean everything. Flirt with your husband. Look him in the eyes and passionately kiss him ALOT. I was not feeling what you felt with the exOM because he pissed me off, so that turned into anger and now I have no feeling for him. No anger, no missing him, no nothing..ok alittle bit of hatred because he had words with my husband and said awful filthy untrue things about me. But I do not ever think about him because when I do I wanna throw up. Seriously, when hubby brings him up I get sick. I am so mad at myself for not going to counselling instead of having an EA. The passion between hubby and I was gone. Felt like we were roommates. Then it got bad with us. A lot of resentment on both our parts. I didn't think hubby loved me but found out I was wrong. For him to take me back after what I did says that yeshe loves me a lot. Good luck to you. We are 18 months in R. I have not read all 3 pages of this post but will read on now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

CantSitStill said:


> I am so mad at myself for not going to counselling instead of having an EA.



OP had a PA for 15 months. That, in my mind, is more severe than a EA.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

aug said:


> OP had a PA for 15 months. That, in my mind, is more severe than a EA.


Yeah, but I bet CSS feels as guilty as most people who had a long PA. Why? That's the kind of person CSS is... and it's why her marriage has a way better than average chance of getting to Golden Anniversary status and beyond, IMO.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

xOW said:


> Am not telling her to spend one last night with him... *Just to have the decency of breaking things off in a way that doesn't leave her AP feeling suicidal because of the disconnect between her words and actions. *Seriously? OM was/is i hope a grown man,right? If so time for him to put his big boy pant´s
> on and thank god it´s not a great A§§ whooping he would
> be receiving instead. What can OM suggest to the husband
> to make it right? which sadly by now.He might be actually
> ...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

aug said:


> OP had a PA for 15 months. That, in my mind, is more severe than a EA.


I understand your point of view but if I remember correctly CSS's husband took it pretty badly. She never minimized what he was feeling nor the impact her EA had on her husband and family. Refreshing change of pace for this place....


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> This is Talk About Marriage, and the sub-set, Coping With Infidelity. It's not called: Burn Those Cheaters Down.


If you where a hot girl I would kiss you I agree with you do much.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

This isn't about me...it's about selena and whether or not she is willing to give all of herself to her husband. I mean ALL...it is so important that you totally devote your whole self into the marriage or it won't work. No contact with the AP at all except for the no contact letter that you and your husband do together for starters. Marriage counselling, books...His Needs Her Needs..I can recommend a few more too. I may have had an EA but what matters is that I hurt my husband to the core and there are still days he questions whether or not we belong together. Also be totally honest, even when it hurts him. I have had to do it and it sucks but he deserves to know. Also all passwords he needs to know. He needs to know every phone call everything you do in order to trust you. That trust may never come. This stuff is so so horrible for a BS and yes you hurt yourself too. It is time to do everything to save your marriage if that is what you reallt want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

EI said:


> Not he will not.


There you go i changed it for you


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CantSitStill said:


> This isn't about me...it's about selena and whether or not she is willing to give all of herself to her husband. I mean ALL...it is so important that you totally devote your whole self into the marriage or it won't work. No contact with the AP at all except for the no contact letter that you and your husband do together for starters. Marriage counselling, books...His Needs Her Needs..I can recommend a few more too. I may have had an EA but what matters is that I hurt my husband to the core and there are still days he questions whether or not we belong together. Also be totally honest, even when it hurts him. I have had to do it and it sucks but he deserves to know. Also all passwords he needs to know. He needs to know every phone call everything you do in order to trust you. That trust may never come. This stuff is so so horrible for a BS and yes you hurt yourself too. It is time to do everything to save your marriage if that is what you reallt want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You stepped up big time and never minimized..Selena could take a lesson from you CSS...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

xOW said:


> I don't want to highjack this thread so I'll keep it short.
> 
> Yes the AP is totally at fault for getting involved with a married person. For most sane APs, it is a one time, extremely painful experience they will never ever repeat. Yes they deserve to suffer the consequences so they can learn the hard way not to believe a cheater. That is what it comes down to: cheaters lie and hurt everyone, yet do everything to protect themselves, including lying to their spouse about their feelings for them and minimizing the affair to keep enjoying the security marriage offers and the comfortable lifestyle provided by their spouse. It's called damage control. Once they feel the marriage is safe again, they go back to their AP or another seeking the excitement, connection and intimacy missing in the marriage.


For most cheaters it's a one time experience as well. Not all cheaters are serial cheaters.

But the BS cannot be expected to compound their own pain by supporting the WS continuing contact with the AP. It's very rare that a WS will end an affair when they talk to the AP. Each time they see each other, the chances of the affair continuing is greater.

There are consequences for bad choices. It's a fact of life that AP's are not victim's. they are co-victimizers who try to destroy a family. Sometimes life's important lessons are very painful.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Selena will soon find out how serious infidelity is. Not many people can recover and if they do reconcile, the former WS goes through a stage of self hatred. They take a good deep look at themselves and are applalled at their past behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CantSitStill said:


> Selena will soon find out how serious infidelity is. Not many people can recover and if they do reconcile, the former WS goes through a stage of self hatred. They take a good deep look at themselves and are applalled at their past behavior.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great insight....


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

CantSitStill said:


> This isn't about me...it's about selena and whether or not she is willing to give all of herself to her husband. I mean ALL...it is so important that you totally devote your whole self into the marriage or it won't work. No contact with the AP at all except for the no contact letter that you and your husband do together for starters. Marriage counselling, books...His Needs Her Needs..I can recommend a few more too. I may have had an EA but what matters is that I hurt my husband to the core and there are still days he questions whether or not we belong together. Also be totally honest, even when it hurts him. I have had to do it and it sucks but he deserves to know. *Also all passwords he needs to know. He needs to know every phone call everything you do in order to trust you.* That trust may never come. This stuff is so so horrible for a BS and yes you hurt yourself too. It is time to do everything to save your marriage if that is what you reallt want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Also don't delete any messages. If he thinks you're deleting things to hide them from him you're done.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

NC letter and NC arrangement (OM will fish, have a plan, shared with your husband about the reaction).
Transparence in comunicacion devices (OM blocked there)
Complete honesty while answering questions.
STD tests
Underwear used gone
Money spent must be saved and put back into the family.

If OM has a girlfriend/wife she must be informed.

Also gifts, mementoes, pictures, etc, all gone.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

xOW said:


> Am not telling her to spend one last night with him... Just to have the decency of breaking things off in a way that doesn't leave her AP feeling suicidal because of the disconnect between her words and actions. Two days ago she was probably in bed with him saying "I love you" and now you are telling her to send him a "don't contact me ever again" letter.
> 
> Yes, he made a big mistake getting involved with her but if she plans on staying married she has definitely been playing him, which will hurt him enough. No need to be so harsh too.


 I'm looking at the above quote where xOW say to have the decency of breaking things off with the OM. Anyone besides me see that there is something wrong with that? I'm not picking a fight with anyone here but THERE IS NO DECENCY IN A AFFAIR!! When you screw around with a married man or woman, well, one gets what one deserves. 

You had a affair for 15 months. It's not like it was a ONS or you got drunk and took a tumble in the back seat of a car outside a bar. This is a heavy duty affair and you got caught. Maybe if it was a short affair or a ONS maybe he would forgive, but honestly, 15 months is a long time. Your husband is going to have 15 months of mental movies going through his head and that is a movie marathon of really. He's going to visualize something like a ton of porn movies with his wife as the star, so if he files, just ask yourself, if the roles were reversed and he had the affair, what would you do?


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

OM tried to destroy a marriage to get his rocks off. I did not ask my wife for a no contact letter. I wanted no contact ever. Not even something that could be counted as goodbye. I hope it broke his heart when she fell off the face of the earth, but I doubt he had one.


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## jay_gatsby (Jun 4, 2013)

In this world we live in, there are protocols and laws by which we live by. They are of human construct to keep order. We all like to believe that we have morals and belief in a higher plane of existence - we can debate may or may not exist. As humans we all make mistakes, some that can be rectified, some that can not. We all want to to be happy, and sometimes we make choices that do not make that possible. When we do, we would hope we do it according to societal standards and abide by the rules laid down to keep them. But, we will make wrong decisions. In a perfect world we would all abide by the laws. But even then, people will still get hurt, whether the divorce happens first or the cheating starts first. I am not condoning cheating, but I think we should sometimes give the affair partners a chance to prove themselves before we berate them. If they realize they are wrong, they have recourse to reconcile. If they are right, maybe be should just wish them the best. At least this way, the betrayed partners can then move on and find happiness with someone who can return the love they can't get from their present partners.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

All of what you are going through and feeling is normal.

Right now, you are going through withdrawal. You want your fix. DON't DO IT!

You have been spending your 'emotional coin' on the OM. There is no investment on hubby. So you are disconnected.

Bad news: it will be a long hard road to fix this.

Good news: if you don't contact the OM and you deal with your marital issues, you CAN fix it.

Ignore the BSers who have never been here. Losing the OM does feel like having a loved one die. I've beaten my head against the wall a few times. While he s probably not 100% evil, he is NOT good for you!

You are doing the smart thing. It has to be. Because it's so painful. But in the long run, it's best for you. 

But you better have a thick skin. He will be occasionally brutal...and you deserve it. Don't forget that. Don't expect to be the goat forever... But expect to be a goat for a couple of years.

Fake it til you make it. I did. It worked
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

xOW said:


> Am not telling her to spend one last night with him... Just to have the decency of breaking things off in a way that doesn't leave her AP feeling suicidal because of the disconnect between her words and actions. Two days ago she was probably in bed with him saying "I love you" and now you are telling her to send him a "don't contact me ever again" letter.
> 
> Yes, he made a big mistake getting involved with her but if she plans on staying married she has definitely been playing him, which will hurt him enough. No need to be so harsh too.


Your expecting sympathy from BS to the 3rd party in their M? Yeah good luck with that. 

Should my W's OM off himself I'll probably laugh hysterically for about 20 mins, next I'd wonder if he went quick or slow/painful (hoping for the latter), and then finally feel a slight bit of gratitude for doing me a favor. The thought of him being miserable to the point he checks himself out is very therapeutic to me.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> As a former WS my thing was, I was addicted to the texting with ex OM. I changed my text sound and started texting with my husband. Find something to do with your time. New habits. Put you mind on making your husband your first priority. Take care of him, he needs a lot of tender loving genuine care. Do everything you can to get the passion back. I mean everything. Flirt with your husband. Look him in the eyes and passionately kiss him ALOT. I was not feeling what you felt with the exOM because he pissed me off, so that turned into anger and now I have no feeling for him. No anger, no missing him, no nothing..ok alittle bit of hatred because he had words with my husband and said awful filthy untrue things about me. But I do not ever think about him because when I do I wanna throw up. Seriously, when hubby brings him up I get sick. I am so mad at myself for not going to counselling instead of having an EA. The passion between hubby and I was gone. Felt like we were roommates. Then it got bad with us. A lot of resentment on both our parts. I didn't think hubby loved me but found out I was wrong. For him to take me back after what I did says that yeshe loves me a lot. Good luck to you. We are 18 months in R. I have not read all 3 pages of this post but will read on now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

6301 said:


> I'm looking at the above quote where xOW say to have the decency of breaking things off with the OM. Anyone besides me see that there is something wrong with that? I'm not picking a fight with anyone here but THERE IS NO DECENCY IN A AFFAIR!! When you screw around with a married man or woman, well, one gets what one deserves.
> 
> You had a affair for 15 months. It's not like it was a ONS or you got drunk and took a tumble in the back seat of a car outside a bar. This is a heavy duty affair and you got caught. Maybe if it was a short affair or a ONS maybe he would forgive, but honestly, 15 months is a long time. Your husband is going to have 15 months of mental movies going through his head and that is a movie marathon of really. He's going to visualize something like a ton of porn movies with his wife as the star, so if he files, just ask yourself, if the roles were reversed and he had the affair, what would you do?


Here is the flaw in your logic. Most cheaters on both sides start their story with 'I never expected to have to write this, but I cheated on my spouse...'

Guess what? The OM/OW generally says it too.

So they are not puppy kicking serial seducers who sell crack to school kids in their spare time.

They are generally reasonably decent people who make bad choices and are unwise with their boundaries and their hearts.

So let's wish them devoured (slowly!) by rabid schnauzers.

Certainly let's NOT treat them like people who made mistakes and can recover from their poor judgement. Better to have them sterilized so they can't pass on the cheating genes.

Sarcasm off

This post is directed more at the people blasting a bit more indiscriminately but it partially fits with this post. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

There is always hope for you, Selena, if you have hope for yourself and the discipline to work towards that. 

Please don't accept the projected pain from other BS's here as accurate evaluations of you and your ability to move forward from this. It is terrible what they have been put through, and in most cases here, it seems like their spouses don't care. But since you are here, I am operating under the belief that you do care. So, here are some of my hard lessons as a WS.

1. Your feelings at this point will deceive you. If you believe you want to rebuild/renew your marriage, you need to focus on that goal despite your current lack of connection with your husband or level of care for OM. Both of those change with time and perspective.

2. If you dwell on those feelings, they will lead you back down the path to resuming the affair and causing further devastation. DON'T DO IT. I did, and it's a h*ll I have to face in the mirror every day.

3. You need to change for YOU. You can't do it for your husband. He may or may not be able to work through this pain with you. If your changes are dependent on his progress or the success of your relationship, they will not stick because that foundation will shift every single day for months, maybe longer, depending on how you both work at it.

4. There is no lie or omission that will help save anything at this point. Nothing can be more heinously painful for your husband than further lies or trickle truth. You cannot protect him from your past choices, you cannot possibly hope to rebuild a connection with him without completely honesty between you. No matter what your instincts are with this - they are wrong. Tell him everything, tell him now, and accept that the only way forward from something like this is with ALL the cards on the table.

You CAN live differently, each and every day. You CAN make different choices going forward. Instead of asking how something makes you feel now, look at your actions each day and ask yourself how you would feel telling your kids, closest friends, parents or whomever you value about your choices that day. If there's something you wouldn't want to share, it's the wrong choice, IMO.

Many BS's here will post out of their own dark place of rage, pain, and betrayal. They have every right to those feelings. But don't let that dissuade you from the efforts you need to make to become a better person. I can't count how many people told me over the last 8 months that I don't love my husband, that I don't care about my son, and that the best choice I could possibly make would be to speedily seek a divorce, give my husband full custody and never see my son again because, clearly, I was broken beyond any sort of hope. The WS of a poster here (who had a variety of other psychological issues) recently committed suicide, and people commented on the further proof of her selfishness, that she would just abandon her kid. I'm not sure how that is much different than the advice often spouted in anger at the beginning of a WS thread. I can tell you that I spent far more hours than I'd ever like to count considering what would be "best" for my family after what I'd put them through, including suicide. I've researched what is more damaging for children, living through divorce or the death of a parent. But ultimately, I truly believe that I have the capacity to be the kind of person who is an asset in their children's lives. I have the ability to LEARN and GROW and be more than the choices I made over a fraction of my lifetime. So do you.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Jesus 

There have been so many of these threads in the last year - so many waywards doing their stuff and needing it all 'explained' to them.

No comment from me on the main subject / question here, just an observation.

I so deeply regret never having had access to this site 7/8 years ago because these countless threads would have made me see so clearly, precisely what I should have done with my stbxw.

Would have saved me and my kids so much emotional turmoil

......but better late than never I s'pose


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## TimesOfChange (Mar 20, 2013)

I .....my.....me

If you wanna help your husband, forget these words for a long time.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

xOW; said:


> I don't want to highjack this thread so I'll keep it short.
> 
> Yes the AP is totally at fault for getting involved with a married person. For most sane APs, it is a one time, extremely painful experience they will never ever repeat. Yes they deserve to suffer the consequences so they can learn the hard way not to believe a cheater. That is what it comes down to: cheaters lie and hurt everyone, yet do everything to protect themselves, including lying to their spouse about their feelings for them and minimizing the affair to keep enjoying the security marriage offers and the comfortable lifestyle provided by their spouse. It's called damage control. Once they feel the marriage is safe again, they go back to their AP or another seeking the excitement, connection and intimacy missing in the marriage.


The AP who is aware their "girlfriend" or "boyfriend" is actually married is helping that married person cheat & lie and that, in my book, is no better than the married cheater themselves. The aware AP is not a victim of anyone or anything but their own choice to remain involved with a married person. If the AP believes the cheater that is their own choice they willingly make. The aware AP never took vows with the BS but the AP who remains with the married cheater, making a choice to believe the lies told to them, maybe putting pressure on them to leave their spouse and kids, perhaps enjoying marital funds spent on trysts.....well, in the end that aware AP is complicit in any damage they felt was done to them.

By no means does this take away or minimize the cheater's responsibility to their spouse in these situations, not by a long shot, but aware AP's are volunteering for any pain and deceit which may come to them by their choice to have a "relationship" with someone who will be cheating on their spouse to do so.

The two people in the extramarital relationship are not victims, they are volunteers. In this world we are free to make choices but those choices, any choice, are not free of the consequences.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

How about this?

The OP is asking for help, understanding and guidance from WAYWARD SPOUSES.

She isn't looking for people to treat her like garbage as they vent their issues.

This is an open forum and it's a (semi) free country. So out of politeness, maybe we should preface our comments identifying if we are a WS or BS so if she wishes, she doesn't need to read the vitriol to identify the poster.

And yup, I'm a WS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

If you are still around, why not get help with not contacting him? Sit with your husband and erase all his info from your emails, phone, any pictures, any keepsakes, get rid of it all. Send the no contact letter. Give your cell phone to your husband or better yet get a new one. Maybe a jitter bug with no technology. Or no cell phone, I promise you will survive a few weeks. If you have a laptop or iPad or any way of communicating surrender it to your husband. Move your pc to the living room and block any website that you used for contact. Or better yet disconnect Internet service. You need to be treated as an addict, once you come to your senses you have lots of work to do, but it is fruitless if you do it while under the fog.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

mablenc said:


> If you are still around, why not get help with not contacting him? Sit with your husband and erase all his info from your emails, phone, any pictures, any keepsakes, get rid of it all. Send the no contact letter. Give your cell phone to your husband or better yet get a new one. Maybe a jitter bug with no technology. Or no cell phone, I promise you will survive a few weeks. If you have a laptop or iPad or any way of communicating surrender it to your husband. Move your pc to the living room and block any website that you used for contact. Or better yet disconnect Internet service. You need to be treated as an addict, once you come to your senses you have lots of work to do, but it is fruitless if you do it while under the fog.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: She has a lot of work to do on herself before she can eve think of getting her husband back....


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

xOW said:


> Yes, because the AP who has been manipulated, told they were loved, who have given their heart to someone who kept promising a future together, should be dumped like they meant absolutely nothing even though it is clearly not the case.


Caveat emptor. When you sign up to be someone's side-piece, you can't be surprised when you get treated like a side piece. Are you not an adult?


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

xOW said:


> Am not telling her to spend one last night with him... Just to have the decency of breaking things off in a way that doesn't leave her AP feeling suicidal because of the disconnect between her words and actions. Two days ago she was probably in bed with him saying "I love you" and now you are telling her to send him a "don't contact me ever again" letter.
> 
> Yes, he made a big mistake getting involved with her but if she plans on staying married she has definitely been playing him, which will hurt him enough. No need to be so harsh too.


Two things...

There is no honor among thieves nor decency afforded to indecent people.

Any man who is suicidal over another mans wife probably has an underlying mental disorder that would be better off kept out of the gene pool. I'm ok with that error correcting itself.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JCD said:


> How about this?
> 
> The OP is asking for help, understanding and guidance from WAYWARD SPOUSES.
> 
> ...


What some people do not understand is that by helping the WS in recovery they are helping the BS.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Selena, getting a second chance even after a ONS is a gift from a BS, so if you get a second chance even after your fifteen month cheating is a real gift for you. They are offering it not because they are some needy, insecure self respect less people but they are offering it in the hope that their WS will change and they can have a better and stronger marriage if both work hard. Understand this first.

Then its only two days after your Dday, its raw like an new wound, you destroyed your marriage, your husband and your children's happiness for ever by your selfishness. He is ready to R docent mean he will take any Bull **** from you in future.and any more contact may automatically lead to your husband taking back his offer to R.

Send the NC letter immediately in presence of your husband and dont sugar cot the letter but say straight that you regret ever meeting this OM and you never wanted to see or hear from him. Then hand over the passwords and come clean without with holding any information. Dont flood him with your information. Make a time line and hand over it to him if he asks for details give it to him. Else let him know that you are here and ready to give details he needed.

Get your self in IC first and know why and how you turned from a house wife to a moral less cheater and continued for this long. Then find an MC who is experienced in dealing with infidelity.

Dont sit simply hoping your husband will get over in time, R is a long painful road, take you head out and do what ever possible to help your husband heal.

You destroyed your marriage and husband, its upto you to fix it.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Selena, getting a second chance even after a ONS is a gift from a BS, so if you get a second chance even after your fifteen month cheating is a real gift for you. They are offering it not because they are some needy, insecure self respect less people but they are offering it in the hope that their WS will change and they can have a better and stronger marriage if both work hard. Understand this first.
> 
> Then its only two days after your Dday, its raw like an new wound, you destroyed your marriage, your husband and your children's happiness for ever by your selfishness. He is ready to R docent mean he will take any Bull **** from you in future.and any more contact may automatically lead to your husband taking back his offer to R.
> 
> ...


This is mostly accurate as a starting point for helping the healing.

I wouldn't say 'moralless' unless you think she's also about to commit genocide, armed robbery and drowning kittens. I would say she has poor boundaries, mistreated her husband badly and made bad choices.

She can stop making bad choices. She's already started. So credit where credit is due.

Do the NC thing, get an STD test. Get a DNA test on the kids. Offer to take a polygraph.

None of this (save the NC and STD test) is necessary, but it's to settle his mind on certain issues.

On a personal note, I did not love my wife when I tried to R. I felt like someone cut my best friend from me and I was just an EA. It hurt like blazes for MONTHS.

BUT...focus on the good and wonderful things your husband does and is. Stay on the positives. If there are negatives, talk about them with him. He can't read your mind. He doesn't understand why X, Y, and Z drove you nuts. Tell him.

Do NOT call the other person...or you will be starting from zero.

The BS all talk about triggers. I will tell you right now that you will trigger very much as well. You will hear a song, pass a restaurant, hear the darned 'Ding' of the IM function (HUGE with me). It made me miss my OW very very much every time it happened.

So cut those things out of your life. It will make things easier for you. Someone else suggested that and it's excellent advice.

There will be days when you want to quit. There will be days HE will want to quit. Wait three days before you pull the trigger. Let yourself settle down.

During conversations, sometimes things will get too heated or hurtful. Stop talking altogether, but make sure that both of you know that you will revisit the topic when you both calm dawn hours or days later. AND REVISIT THEM.

This is all I can offer you. It's hard. It is fixable. I don't care how long it lasted. Yup, you fvcked up. No one is dead.

I have faith you can be better than this.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Selena---go to the Web MD site---and check out Hypersexual Addiction------it is an article contributed to by PHD's, and MD's that have studied this problem, and it gives many good suggestions, on how to deal with the problem you have-----it tells how to focus your mind, and it talks about the underlying causes---check it out---it should help you out


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

You're not the only one engulfed in this "fog", if it exists. I am of the opinion that its just another excuse for justifying the sh!tty choices we tend to make.

Its only natural for him to be very emotional and not in a position to think rationally, given that you've just blindsided him with your complete lack of loyalty. He might take a while to figure it out but the moment he realizes that you have little to no respect for him is the moment he'll make one of two choices. If you're lucky, like EI and Mrs mathias, he might just reconcile. This depends largely on how good a wife you were before the affair and what you're going to do in the days that follow.

All I'm trying to tell you is to not be complacent or take it for granted that your ol' boring little hubby will be your safety net while you have fun with your lover. You might just find out that if and when you fall, there won't be anyone to catch you.

Do you have kids?? If you don't, the odds of R are considerably lesser. But, on the plus side, you can go and be with your affair partner/boyfriend without having to worry about the fallout.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Look at the EI thread,hers is close to yours.

EI was honest with herself. Do not rush into R, She did not. You have such a long to go.

The question every WS should ask is do you want to stay in the marriage.

It is great that the WS are here but I do not agree with the ignore anyone that gives opinions that are hurtfull or you do not agree with.

You need to see the full impact of what you have done. There is going to be a lot of pain.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

JCD said:


> This is mostly accurate as a starting point for helping the healing.
> 
> I wouldn't say 'moralless' unless you think she's also about to commit genocide, armed robbery and drowning kittens. I would say she has poor boundaries, mistreated her husband badly and made bad choices.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice except for I do believe that cheating is indeed immoral but it doesn't mean she's an immoral person all the way through. Life is about choices. She made a pretty bad one but that doesn't mean she can't make good ones from this point on.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

So Selena what have you done to end the affair and go NC with the OM?

After all this thread is about what she needs to do to recover.

I hope Selena has not left the building.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

FourtyPlus said:


> Excellent advice except for I do believe that cheating is indeed immoral but it doesn't mean she's an immoral person all the way through. Life is about choices. She made a pretty bad one but that doesn't mean she can't make good ones from this point on.


It IS immoral. Did I ever say otherwise?

And that is a starting point for her.

I note that the OP hasn't said a word. Have the haters chased another person LOOKING FOR HELP away?

It wouldn't be the first time.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: New and looking for help from other WSs*



JCD said:


> It IS immoral. Did I ever say otherwise?
> 
> And that is a starting point for her.
> 
> ...


I don't foresee that it will be the last either.


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## Mrs_Mathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I haven't seen a single post on this thread that "coddles" the wayward. What I have seen is people who are trying to answer the questions asked, using explanation as well as blunt descriptions of their own experiences. On the flip side, I have seen posts stating that she is hopeless, awful, and a lost cause. 

Which of these is likely to be useful to someone seeking to understand their feelings, change their current habits, and find a way through the pain they have created for their spouse and themselves? It is important to come to understand (as much as possible) the pain, anger, and irreparable change caused to the BS. But telling someone they need to give up and can never improve themselves 2 days after D-day after reading 1 post from them does not help them see the pain their spouse is in. It crushes what little strength, determination, and hope they have for positive change - with or without their BS. It encourages them NOT to try, NOT to spend time in serious thought and search for understanding. All it does it reinforce at the lowest point in anyone's life (BS or WS) that the WS is worthless, permanently damaged, and needs to give up any hope or thought to the contrary.

Change is hard, self-improvement is hard, and if you have the gracious opportunity to R, that is incredibly hard. I will never understand the posters here who seem to either have chosen not to attempt R or perhaps wanted to, but their WS did not choose that, so they do everything in their power to make sure that opportunity is seen as unachievable for the WS, undesirable for the BS, and essentially help insure that another marriage fails.

Share your stories, share your experiences, share your emotions. Honest communication is profoundly helpful. Crushing anyone asking for help because of your personal experiences is not. If we want an honest dialogue here about "Coping with Infidelity" then we have to be willing to let BS's and WS's speak honestly about their experiences and feelings, even as it is painful to read. Feelings and perspectives change, but only if an individual is given time, guidance, and insight to reach a different level of understanding.

**I'll get off my soapbox now. If Selena returns, please feel free to PM me.**


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Selena, 

I know that emotions are raw right now and that you and your husband are in crisis mode right now. There is nothing that is happening to you that has not happened to others. Also don’t let you emotions overcome you and do something to harm yourself. I don’t think you are a bad person, but obviously you have done a bad thing. The BS on here were going to be upset when you said that the first thing you thought of was losing your OM. WS have a hard time on this board, but those that aren’t contrite take a real whooping.

If you are looking for sound advice from a former WS than PM Mrs Mathias. I did not think she was a good candidate for reconciliation, but I told her that I hoped she would prove me wrong. She got as much heat on here as anyone and proved to all of us that she would do what it would take (hats off). I believe she will give you sound advice and not be judgmental. Additionally, she did make mistakes that she would do differently in hindsight, so she could be a good mentor. 

Personally, I recommend that you open and honest with your husband. Give him the information he asks but don’t overload him with things that he did not ask. This is going to take a long time to fix, longer than the affair itself, so don’t think this will be resolved by Thanksgiving. I believe that this marriage can be fixed IF both of you are willing to put in the work. Best wishes to you and your family.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

*sigh* Selena, it's rough to post here. Sometimes it is easier to just pm with another WW and get the info you need. I hope you come back and get on a good path and follow through.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

D-day was just about 4 days or so ago. I would think that Selena, her lover and her husband are trying to sort through their emotions and the turmoil that must be going on now.

Perhaps she is dealing with the sh!t and TAM is secondary or tertiary or less importance?


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Op if you are still reading just a few thoughts. 

You feel disconnected from your h. Have you considered that could be from emotionally and physically investing yourself in another man? 

It is difficult for you to give up om. Imagine how difficult it is for h at the moment. 

Have you been checked for stds? You should get tested without the need for your husband to ask. Share the results with him. You put his physical health at risk this is the very least you can do. Have it done even if you got checked a while ago as neither you nor your h can be sure who om was sleeping with in addition to you. 

Please inform his wife or significant other she has a right to know. 

Invest your time and energy into r if your h is willing. That means above all else cutting ties with om.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

When I first came here, what really helped me was reading the stickys in coping with infidelity. I read all of it and it all made a lot of sense to me and really helped. Reading peoples comments to me didn't as much because they didn't know everything about us and our marriage. We are still here tho because it's nice to have a place to vent when we have bad days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

This is a support forum! If you can't offer constructive advice to the OP, don't post.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Madam,

If you are still there. It is natural for you to feel a sense of loss and miss the OM. You felt affection for him and now he's gone. It is natural to want that back, particularly knowing he is still alive and readily available.

This would be a mistake. I cannot know his feelings but statistically, affairs don't turn into Long Term Relationships. The well is poisoned with your kids and other family members for one thing. Unless your husband is abusive, and you have not indicated that, your family will NOT be particularly understanding. And there is a very real chance that he was just using you. Men are a lot less emotionally finicky with their affair partners, focusing on the sex.

Your husband will likely attack the OM. Because you know him and hubby doesn't, he will throw some pretty wild statements out there. You will feel an urge to defend him. I am split on this issue. It would be best to say something along the lines of "I am not attracted to criminals. I didn't do the wisest thing by cheating on you, but *from the best I can tell* he wasn't an evil guy. He was just as wrong as I was, but he wasn't Hitler".

Silence might be wiser, though.

Give your husband total honesty. Don't volunteer things he doesn't want. First, there might be things he cannot stand to hear and saying them will be counter productive. Second, he has to live with the consequences of the mental movies.

You will want to contact him just to see if he is okay. You will want to contact mutual friends to check on him. You will want to contact his family perhaps if you know them. Professors, websites, etc.

You know you can't do that. It will set you way back in your R with your husband.

Here is one thing you need to consider. What you had with the OM wasn't real: it was dating, where you pretended to be the best you could be. Every day with a side of taboo sex. That masks all the character flaws both of you had. How can that compete with your marital relation with a husband where you BOTH know exactly what warts you have? It can't and it's unfair.

Very likely if you pursued this relationship, you'd see the OM's warts...and they are at least as bad (if not worse) than your husbands.

I would suggest getting rid of any gifts, songs, books etc that the OM gave you...and I would further suggest you do it with your husband as a ritual. You should hold up what the item was and tell hubby what it is and why it is special. This removes the special context from the item. This removes the secret magic specialness from it.

This is important if you want to get over him.

It took me a good 10 months to 'fall in love' with my wife again. It's still not as good as it was early in the relationship (but then again, what is?) This takes patience. The BS will tell you if you don't immediately feel the emotions, you are lying. They haven't been there. ACT like you are in love. Look for the good in him. Be totally fair to his good qualities, even if you want to despair or be mad. 

You can get there. If, after a year, you still feel nothing, get that divorce. You need to run the cut off somewhere.

Don't be a total doormat. Be contrite. Be apologetic. Be patient if he explodes at you. He has a lot of negative emotions in him but frankly, you put them there.

But by the same token, if you are correct on something, DIPLOMATICALLY stand up for yourself...and maybe do so AFTER the fact when it is less emotionally significant. He didn't marry a Stepford, he married you. Still be you, albeit a bit more loving and patient.

There are issues in your marriage which made it easier to rationalize cheating on your husband. Things he did wrong. They still hurt you and damage the marriage. Fix them.

By the same token, there are things YOU need to fix too. This is where IC, MC and long conversations help A LOT!

I hope you are still reading and I hope this helps.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

There really isn't much to offer as pretty much all has been said.

But it seems to me that those of us who have been betrayed in the single cruelest way one human can betray another make a point when it appears we are ranting- that the pain and anguish of being so betrayed is something the betrayer can never fathom. They can try, but I am convinced that they cannot understand more than 10% of what we really go through. It is important to read those posts for what they are as they provide an insight to some small degree of what we go through for the rest of our lives. It's really a prison sentence. 

And therein lies the battle. The perpetrator of the crime and the victim. One never understands the other no matter how hard they try. I could go on about this, but perhaps another time.

So Selena if you're still monitoring this I hope you see your way through. Perhaps reconciliation will work and perhaps not. But if you have a heart to try then maybe your husband can overcome enough of the pain you have caused to make something work out.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

JCD said:


> Madam,
> *There are issues in your marriage which made it easier to rationalize cheating on your husband*. Things he did wrong. They still hurt you and damage the marriage. Fix them.
> 
> By the same token, there are things YOU need to fix too. This is where IC, MC and long conversations help A LOT!
> ...


JCD, You have posted many wise and, I believe, helpfull words in this thread (as in many others). Where do you get the impression that there are issues in the marriage that need to be fixed?

Anyway, OP needs to stop the affair and work through withdrawal from her AP before any other issues can be adressed in a constructive manner. First things first.

OP, stop it. Just stop it. erase him from you life, totally. Cold turkey. IMO your ability to do this is a strong indicator of your true willingness to stay married to your husband.


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## temperance (Jul 28, 2013)

I think this is an old post... but after looking at all the feedback... I think this is not the forum to get support. Sorry Selena.... if you look at most of the forum posts are spouses who have been or suspected to be cheated on, angry and heartbroken. So they will come across as very judgmental... but rightfully so. 

You got to ask yourself, what was the reason you have an affair and the real reason you want to stay with your husband. You said you are disconnected with your husband, why? what was missing? And most of all if you fall out f love and your heart is not with your husband already, are you still willing to spend the rest of your live with your husband? 

I know they are not easy answer but ultimately you need to make a real decision, to cut either one of them off and move on with life. No you are not a terrible person and don't let your guilt eats you away. NO ONE IS PERFECT! So how dare anyone tells you how you should feel. It sounds like your husband wants to feel that he 'wins' and your lover 'lose' without concerning your feelings and work things out. Plus you feel that you fall out of love with him.... you got to take some time for yourself to think about what you want and take care of yourself.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

temperance said:


> I know they are not easy answer but ultimately you need to make a real decision, to cut either one of them off and move on with life. No you are not a terrible person and don't let your guilt eats you away. NO ONE IS PERFECT! So how dare anyone tells you how you should feel. It sounds like your husband wants to feel that he 'wins' and your lover 'lose' without concerning your feelings and work things out. Plus you feel that you fall out of love with him.... you got to take some time for yourself to think about what you want and take care of yourself.


It's horrible advice. Horrible.
She of course should think hard whether she wants to remain married to her husband (which BTW requires to go NC from OM). Regardless her decision still OM must go for good. This is a false choice. Unles this man was fooled into believe she was single for two years he's an intruder, was messing around another's man's wife and no matter the set of excuses he sold himself it automatically disqualifies him as a potential partner. The real choice is more about what kind of woman she is, not about with man she chooses.
Also, this atribution you make about her husband motivations (win-loss) is short sighted, superficial, simplistic and lacks of any sense of empathy and willingness to try understand where his need of reasurance and the desire to see OM thrown under the bus comes from.
She can't "work things out" while cake eating, you don't think more clearly with threee people involved quite the contrary.
What is your solution, to let her keep cake eating, now in the open so she can choose the man?
She must go NC, get past the withdrawal, erase the background noise, the distraction, the source of cognitive disonance and conflicting thoughts... then, with a clearer mind she can evaluate the future of her marriage better, which she could have done before involving third parties and still having her self respect, dignity and honor intact.
I'm surprised to read this proposal when OP herself understand it's a requirement, she's naturaly struggling with the end of the relationship she had with OM and feel pressured by her husband. Pretty normal stuff.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to accept that your BS is going to want and need to demonize your AP. You are going to need to do that as well in support of your BS. If not, then you are going to have a much harder road ahead.

My WW still defends her EA partner if he ever comes up. She claims he is not in the wrong for anything. That is a major wedge that we have with us. I have verified her NON CONTACT with him, but her defense of him has almost brought us to divorce a few times.

You need to accept that if you are to support and respect your husband, you will have to give up this AP and view him as a demon as well.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

bbdad said:


> If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to accept that your BS is going to want and need to demonize your AP. You are going to need to do that as well in support of your BS. If not, then you are going to have a much harder road ahead.
> 
> My WW still defends her EA partner if he ever comes up. She claims he is not in the wrong for anything. That is a major wedge that we have with us. I have verified her NON CONTACT with him, but her defense of him has almost brought us to divorce a few times.
> 
> You need to accept that if you are to support and respect your husband, you will have to give up this AP and view him as a demon as well.


Here is the deal. I can see why it is hard for you to hear her defend the OM. I was in the same boat.

HOWEVER...most of us 'cheater' types, despite the BS script here, that we are remorseless cake eaters who have no moral center, memory, and have a rationalization hamster the size of King Kong...we aren't that different AS PEOPLE.

So if she fell in love with you, nice guy that you are, she fell in love with some other guy...who probably ALSO had some very nice qualities.

And, you need to realize that she and the OM were in constant dating mode! So everyone was on their nicest, cutest behavior. All she had with him was cream, no milk involved.

So OF COURSE all her memories with him are happy memories! It was virtually the same with me.

Now, in time, the cheater starts to question the motives of the Other Person. It took me a long time to start to see things that perhaps my wife saw that I didn't. Does that make my OW an evil horrible woman?

HELL NO! She wasn't...except in one regard: the damage she did to my family...which she never intended (she stepped away when it became apparent that is what was happening. What a HORRIBLE human being  )

So...you don't need to like him. Question his motives etc, but honestly, demonizing him isn't helping YOU either. Maybe you believe he's a serial seducer who has a drawer full of panties he's scored from married women.

How many people are REALLY like that? More likely he was a guy who flirted and got some feedback. She started shooting you the grease and he sympathized...and it morphed.

Little evil involved.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

JCD said:


> Here is the deal. I can see why it is hard for you to hear her defend the OM. I was in the same boat.
> 
> HOWEVER...most of us 'cheater' types, despite the BS script here, that we are remorseless cake eaters who have no moral center, memory, and have a rationalization hamster the size of King Kong...we aren't that different AS PEOPLE.
> 
> ...


The BS script…..

I’m not sure that my WS’s xOW was evil per se, perhaps much younger than her years, very delusional, selfish, and immature. Rationalization hamster the size of King Kong? Close. At least in her case and the case of my WS.

About this time last year I was onto my WS’s extracurricular activities and put a VAR in his car. Eventually hit pay dirt over the period of a week or so and got to hear for myself how the xOW intended to restructure my life. I heard her speak to their father about our three young adult children and how he “needed” to get them out of the house and on their own as that’s what’s “best” for three kids of their age (early 20’s and 18/just starting his senior year of high school!). I’m sure the 18yo’s part-time, weekend job earning minimum wage would have carried him just fine.

She also had plenty to say about what she thought I should be entitled to in a divorce. The house and at least one of my cars. She knew what I drove because we unfortunately still work fairly close to one another; her office is only 3-4 miles away from mine. The car she wanted was one I inherited from my father when he passed away a couple years back. Not my husband’s car, my dead father’s car.

If WS’s were like vehicles and came with a title, I would have gladly signed him over to her on dday. But when an outside party, albeit one who was invited in by one of us, decides to start taking inventory of my life and my kids are included on the chopping block ….. that was probably the biggest WTF moment of my life besides dday itself. It made my skin crawl to hear another woman callously talk about my life and my three main reasons for living in the manner she did. I believe I actually vomited over that one.

I don’t believe all AP’s are gold diggers or even interested in that aspect of things, nor do I believe WS’s are all inherently bad people. I do hang the lion’s share of the blame on my character flawed WS for bringing THIS gold digger into our lives. She was afforded the opportunity to consider taking what belonged to me by virtue of my WS inappropriately inviting her into his life. I don’t have my head in the sand about any of that.

That all said about where blame belongs, I can easily see how a BS can come to and want to believe the AP is evil. Especially when the BS is subjected to hearing or seeing it for themselves; such as hearing conversations via a VAR, seeing emails/texts, etc. It also shined a light on my WS that forever changed how I see him as a person. Not evil, just different – perhaps more realistic - than what I chose to see and believe beforehand.

I won’t speak for anyone else but for me, my own need to see the xOW as evil has greatly decreased and mostly due to the passing of time. I never asked WS to vilify the xOW because for me that would have felt contrived. I would have felt lied to again because early on I never would have believed his words had I asked him to vilify her and he complied. Over time he has come to see on his own what her motives were and he has communicated that to me without my asking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

You and your AP deserve each other. Your husband deserves better. I feel horrible for the poor man.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

Call me a jerk or whatever. But, the WS has to do the 'heavy lifting' on reconciliation. If I feel the need to view the AP as an evil demon, then the WS needs to realize she needs to support me and show me greater respect than the AP. So, there is to be no defending of the AP in my presence. Until that happens, a full R will never be accomplished. I, as the WS, will deserve and demand greater respect paid to me than the AP.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Looks like it was deleted - but that post by xOW about sympathy for the AP is one of the most outrageous pieces of tripe I've read on this forum. Just wow.


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## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

If the OP is still around, let me ask you a question that could, if you truly reflect upon it, help you in your healing journey.

Pretend your husband is having an affair. He is having awesome sex with a woman who is much more attractive than you. Smarter. Earns more money. Dresses much more fashionably. She saves the whales and operates an orphanage. Perfect in every way, except she is screwing your husband.

Would you think your husband was doing something wrong, something damaging to your marriage? Would you think his OW was as wonderful as he thinks she is?

If you have any degree of empathy or awareness other than just of yourself, answering these questions truthfully might give you insight into the value of your beloved affair partner.

And one other question for you. Would a real man be happy with the crumbs from another man's table? Well, your AP seems to be more than happy with being the thing on the side.

Does that tell you anything or give you another perspective?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

temperance said:


> I think this is an old post... but after looking at all the feedback... I think this is not the forum to get support. Sorry Selena.... if you look at most of the forum posts are spouses who have been or suspected to be cheated on, angry and heartbroken. So they will come across as very judgmental... but rightfully so.
> 
> You got to ask yourself, what was the reason you have an affair and the real reason you want to stay with your husband. *You said you are disconnected with your husband, why? what was missing? And most of all if you fall out f love and your heart is not with your husband already, are you still willing to spend the rest of your live with your husband?*
> 
> *I know they are not easy answer but ultimately you need to make a real decision, to cut either one of them off and move on with life. No you are not a terrible person and don't let your guilt eats you away. NO ONE IS PERFECT! So how dare anyone tells you how you should feel. It sounds like your husband wants to feel that he 'wins' and your lover 'lose' without concerning your feelings and work things out. Plus you feel that you fall out of love with him.... you got to take some time for yourself to think about what you want and take care of yourself.*


*
*

I'm guessing the OP is long gone, so I'll take a short opportunity to jump on my soap box about the post above.

You're right acabado. But the advice is horrible for a reason. It's straight out of the WS's rationalization handbook:

- There's a justification for my cheating. I felt disconnected with my spouse.

- I fell in love with someone else. I didn't mean for it to happen.

- I deserve someone that I love and to be loved.

- I shouldn't have to accept this push back from my betrayed spouse to stop contact. 

- I have to do the right thing for me.

I'm sure many a cheater has had these same thoughts. My thoughts are simply these.

If you want to find love from another because your marriage is bad, fine. But have the guts and integrity to divorce your spouse FIRST. Then go find it.

If you don't do it in that order, don't try to rationalize that you are anything but a lying, cheating, philanderer. Because that's what you are. 

Can you overcome this and R? Yes, if you try to make yourself a better person and f*king *OWN* what you did.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

This thread is now closed. Selena, if you come back and wish to reopen this thread, let one of the moderators know.


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