# Monitoring your SO on a just-in-case basis



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Hi all!

Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).

I basically told them that they ought to monitor their SO even if all is ok. I suggested they monitor their 1) texting/calls, 2) their internet activity (facebook+instagram included), 3) their social interactions, 4) their traveling and 5) their nights out. I also told them to do this right after their nights out or after they noticed a subtle change in behavior or if they see their SO deleting texts.

Was I out of line? Did I miss anything? Doing some preventive monitoring isn’t going to kill their SO.


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## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


Don't think you are being out of line at all. Preventative measures are better than sticking one's head in the sand.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You can’t stop a cheater. Being a marriage warden IMO isn’t worth it. 
With that said if your spouse doesn’t have good boundaries it’s a losing battle.
Any married couple should read ‘Not Just Friends’ by glass.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Nothing wrong with that at all. 
I'm with my wife almost 100% of the time, and trust her implicitly.
However, as Ronald Reagan used to say "Trust but Verify."


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Yup, trust but verify. Good advice you gave them OP.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


Victoria's Secret to work?

Paleeeezze.

It isn't bad to help people be aware. It's also good if solid relationship building advice is also shared between friends.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

JBLH said:


> _*The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs.*_


Oh boy. This guy is going to have the rug yanked right out from underneath him.

Since she's so "afraid" of Covid, is she wearing a mask every single day to work for 8 hours straight? Or is she just immediately coming home and showering in order to get the make-believe Covid germs off her arms and legs? 🤪

Sadly, your friend is in for a rude awakening. A very rude awakening.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Oh boy. This guy is going to have the rug yanked right out from underneath him.
> 
> Since she's so "afraid" of Covid, is she wearing a mask every single day to work for 8 hours straight? Or is she just immediately coming home and showering in order to get the make-believe Covid germs off her arms and legs? 🤪
> 
> Sadly, your friend is in for a rude awakening. A very rude awakening.


Well, supposedly he’s caught her lying before. According to him she would tell him that she was going to the local Whole Foods to get the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her “a while.” All of a sudden HE would get a phone call from the Whole Foods to let him know that his order was ready for pickup (meaning she was somewhere else). Or that she was going to TJ Max to get an article of clothing he’d already seen hidden in the back of the closet.

The main issue is that us guys NEVER talk about this kind of stuff. He’s most likely too late as is, although I didn’t have the heart to tell him. He’s going to have a fire pit get together soon, so I’ll know if he took my advise and, if so, if he found out his wife is cheating on him. Once I know that I’ll let him know what to do next (shut up and hit the record button so he can get a much better divorce outcome).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JBLH said:


> Well, supposedly he’s caught her lying before. According to him she would tell him that she was going to the local Whole Foods to get the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her “a while.” All of a sudden HE would get a phone call from the Whole Foods to let him know that his order was ready for pickup (meaning she was somewhere else). Or that she was going to TJ Max to get an article of clothing he’d already seen hidden in the back of the closet.
> 
> The main issue is that us guys NEVER talk about this kind of stuff. He’s most likely too late as is, although I didn’t have the heart to tell him. He’s going to have a fire pit get together soon, so I’ll know if he took my advise and, if so, if he found out his wife is cheating on him. Once I know that I’ll let him know what to do next (shut up and hit the record button so he can get a much better divorce outcome).


There must be a lot of guys just ignoring red flags?

That wife would have been nexted by this barbarian over lies and trying to hide outfits. It wouldn't have gotten to the Victoria's Secret thong to work.🙄


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

So women can’t wear the underwear they want? I’ve never wore a thong and never will , you do know some women have always like things like some men like boxers. So now women who prefer thongs are cheaters? Seriously? Come on. You spy on your wife’s clothing? Monitor what she wears? WTH???


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> There must be a lot of guys just ignoring red flags?
> 
> That wife would have been nexted by this barbarian over lies and trying to hide outfits. It wouldn't have gotten to the Victoria's Secret thong to work.🙄


Yeah, the thong is basically a layup.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> So women can’t wear the underwear they want? I’ve never wore a thong and never will , you do know some women have always like things like some men like boxers. So now women who prefer thongs are cheaters? Seriously? Come on. You spy on your wife’s clothing? Monitor what she wears? WTH???


A Victoria Secrets’ thong?

No.

Only the husband is supposed to see that.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

What a Walmart thong is preferable? I know women who would never cheat ( and yes I do know that) who only buy VS because they get the stuff cheap with rewards. I know people who shop cheap stores and have no morals. So perceived stigma indicates cheating? Should she wear granny undies to work and pass inspection? What’s this woman’s job? I think you are looking for cheating everywhere. I don’t think your wife was being subtle hanging out with people that said they all cheat. If people have to go through inspection and tracking. It’s already over. I’d also like to know if the husbands are as virtuous as they demand of their wives.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Who says it’s to be seen? Dude women can wear stuff to make themselves feel good. So self confidence = cheating if you’re a woman? Thanks for the notice.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

snowbum said:


> So women can’t wear the underwear they want?


Damn right she can't. Victoria's secret is marketed and purchased as sex wear.

If my wife wants to wear sex wear for others, she can let the door hit her in the ass on her way out.

Don't ignore the lies and hiding crap either. That's a juvenile stance and argument.

If you want to be married to a lying man that hides things from you and exhibits sexy behavior towards others, go for it and we won't think you're a hypocrite.

We won't think your very bright but not a hypocrite.😋


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Comments line “ a thong is a lay up” sound like someone who cheated themselves would say. Seems like a bigger deal to the guy. What about the bra. Are underwires now code for cheating?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Where did I say I want a man hiding stuff? I said I don’t wear thongs. I also said vs is not just sex wear. You do know slot of their stuff is functional right? Fwiw I’ve never bought a thing from vs but I do know people who have that aren’t trash and don’t cheat.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Sounds like this OM is the kind of guy that pick up married women......OM better watch his back because he is now a target.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

snowbum said:


> Where did I say I want a man hiding stuff? I said I don’t wear thongs. I also said vs is not just sex wear. You do know slot of their stuff is functional right? Fwiw I’ve never bought a thing from vs but I do know people who have that aren’t trash and don’t cheat.


You are ignoring the details you don't want to acknowledge about the woman in question and trying to make a false argument about women's choices in work undergarments.

No one said that women who buy VS are trash or cheaters. That's you making things up.

The woman in question is definitely behaving trashy and showing definite red flags of cheating.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

snowbum said:


> So women can’t wear the underwear they want? I’ve never wore a thong and never will , you do know some women have always like things like some men like boxers. So now women who prefer thongs are cheaters? Seriously? Come on. You spy on your wife’s clothing? Monitor what she wears? WTH???


The difference to me would be is she wearing that stuff only to work, or is she wearing it on her days off/for me as well. And if she is only wearing it to work, why? Is because she wears pants that would show underwear lines and at home she doesn't care? Sometimes you have to be realistic, and sometimes undergarments are a red flag.

Like said by Conan "The woman in question is definitely behaving trashy and showing definite red flags of cheating." So for HER, yeah, the thongs to work IS a red flag.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

You were not out of line here. I a a female and if one of my dude friends, married or not, told me that his lady was wearing a thong to work and having lots of contact with men at work it would raise a red flag for me as well. Some people, male or female, love attention. Monitoring and asking questions is wise as long as it does not turn into obsessive behavior.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If there's no trust, there's no marriage. If you're constantly "monitoring" her every move, interaction and friendships and she has zero expectation of privacy, that's not a marriage. If you have so little trust in her that you feel you need to do that (BTW, the "wearing pretty underwear automatically means she's cheating" is along the lines of "she ordered Pepsi instead of Coke so she's cheating," it's insultingly absurd, women do not do every single thing they do for men, sorry if that's news to you but our world doesn't revolve around penises) then divorce her. Treating her like a prisoner is going to drive her away, and make you miserable in the process. You don't love her, clearly, because you have no trust in her nor have you any respect for her. This marriage is over.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Using a v a r or tracking device is illegal in the United States and some other places, even on your spouse unless you have permission from your spouse. There are numerous legal sites who strongly advise against it. It is a federal law and then States may also prosecuted depending on their laws. It's an invasion of privacy. 

What is a marriage worth if you have to jail your spouse to keep them from cheating? Of course what we're talking about here is jailing your spouse not because they're cheating or going to cheat but just to give the jailer a feeling of security because he has raging insecurity. 

If you have a spouse you believe will cheat if you don't monitor them, set them free. There's no stopping them. What you are doing acting on your fears is being sure they will come true. You will end up creating that what you fear most. If you have the impulse to try to control your spouse by spying on them and invading their privacy and your imagination is running away with you, your best remedy for this is putting yourself in therapy to work on your own insecurities.

And then once you've worked on those and found out where they actually come from and that it's not actually coming from your spouse but something much earlier, if the worst does happen and you've already poisoned the well and set the ball rolling for her to get a divorce, you'll at least be in a healthier place when that happens.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

JBLH said:


> I basically told them that they ought to monitor their SO even if all is ok. I suggested they monitor their 1) texting/calls, 2) their internet activity (facebook+instagram included), 3) their social interactions, 4) their traveling and 5) their nights out. I also told them to do this right after their nights out or after they noticed a subtle change in behavior or if they see their SO deleting texts.


If all is okay and there is no reason for concern, then this sounds over the top IMO. And that's as someone who was cheated on. 

If there are red flags popping up or reasons to be concern, then look into it. Otherwise, just be aware of what red flags look like. 

I don't monitor my wife's texts, calls, internet history, social media, etc., and I don't over analyze who she talks to or where she goes. I wouldn't want to live like that. IMO as long as my wife gives me no reason to doubt her now then I have no need to be doing that, despite prior infidelity.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bobert said:


> If all is okay and there is no reason for concern, then this sounds over the top IMO. And that's as someone who was cheated on.
> 
> If there are red flags popping up or reasons to be concern, then look into it. Otherwise, just be aware of what red flags look like.
> 
> I don't monitor my wife's texts, calls, internet history, social media, etc., and I don't over analyze who she talks to or where she goes. I wouldn't want to live like that. IMO as long as my wife gives me no reason to doubt her now then I have no need to be doing that, despite prior infidelity.


I might monitor if there was enough suspicious behavior but I honestly would have enough to leave over juvenile lies and such.

I think gaslighting situations might call for it though.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The only two things I ever bought at VS were 1) a pink terry cloth 50s looking robe with other terry cloth designs on it and 2) a thin long burgandy robe with beautiful trim that I would actually at times wear over my other rock clothes out. 

A woman's body is still her body even if she's married. She can wear whatever underwear she wants. I get nauseous hearing men acting like that's their call on there, always begging her to wear them for them like a hooker but then too prudish and insecure to want them leaving the house with them UNDER THEIR CLOTHES. FFS, people.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The only two things I ever bought at VS were 1) a pink terry cloth 50s looking robe with other terry cloth designs on it and 2) a thin long burgandy robe with beautiful trim that I would actually at times wear over my other rock clothes out.
> 
> A woman's body is still her body even if she's married. She can wear whatever underwear she wants. I get nauseous hearing men acting like that's their call on there, always begging her to wear them for them like a hooker but then too prudish and insecure to want them leaving the house wit them UNDER THEIR CLOTHES. FFS, people.


LoL. As usual, you are ignoring everything you don't want to pay attention to and painting a false picture.

The woman in question is a walking red flag.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

snowbum said:


> Where did I say I want a man hiding stuff? I said I don’t wear thongs. I also said vs is not just sex wear. You do know slot of their stuff is functional right? Fwiw I’ve never bought a thing from vs but I do know people who have that aren’t trash and don’t cheat.


Context is everything.
If what you said about VS having sales and that many women use their products daily, then that's fine.
If the wife donns her VS thongs daily as a regular practice and she wears them to work, fine.
That means that they are her preference and her everyday play. Again, that's fine
However, if all the woman wears around her husband is Hanes cotton uggo's from Big Lots, and she goes sashaying out the door to work or elsewhere in a VS thong or other lingerie, that's a problem, IMO.
It should raise red flags, and merits the proper due diligence.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

No one said she doesn’t wear them for her husband.


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## Hurthusband77 (May 9, 2021)

Agree that this woman’s choice of underwear for work on its own, isn’t something to be concerned with, however, if she is wearing sexy underwear, only to work, it is something that would give me pause, wouldn’t blow up a marriage over it.
Saying that, my WW did exactly this while carrying on her A’s with coworkers. She would do up her make up, wear her sexiest underwear to work and sent pics to at least one of her coworkers taken while at work, in a secluded place.

After discovering my WW’s A’s, I saw infidelity everywhere, I think it’s fairly natural. When looking at my situation, all the red flags were there, but when taken in isolation, each instance can be explained away. Look at all the “evidence” from 30,000 ft., and it becomes a lot more clear. I wish I had done this a long time ago.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If there are red flags, I understand wanting to go behind the scenes to see if anything suspicious is going on but you should be able to just have a conversation with your spouse about their behaviors and see their reactions. If you can’t trust your spouse or SO to tell you the truth, then what do you really have?

Overall though, I think you may have helped your friends take some steps to protect themselves so they’re not “blindsided.”


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

snowbum said:


> No one said she doesn’t wear them for her husband.


If it was normal for this guy's wife to wear all the time, then why would he even think to mention it? It wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary, so it likely wouldn't even come to mind.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A woman's body is still her body even if she's married. She can wear whatever underwear she wants. I get nauseous hearing men acting like that's their call on there, always begging her to wear them for them like a hooker but then too prudish and insecure to want them leaving the house wit them UNDER THEIR CLOTHES. FFS, people.


Of course it's her body, her choice. And some men ARE idiots about it. You're ignoring the red flags for this particular case though.

My wife had the stash of sexy underwear that she wore to work but never at home, on outings, on date nights, etc. She wasn't wearing them for herself. She was wearing them for the coworker she was screwing. I don't think she owns anything like that anymore but if I noticed her leaving the house in it, that would be a red flag because I KNOW she finds it uncomfortable. So if she suddenly goes from exclusively wearing the black and white cotton Calvin Klein stuff to a lace thong and bra, and there is no logical explanation for it?🚩


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> Of course it's her body, her choice. And some men ARE idiots about it. You're ignoring the red flags for this particular case though.
> 
> My wife had the stash of sexy underwear that she wore to work but never at home, on outings, on date nights, etc. She wasn't wearing them for herself. She was wearing them for the coworker she was screwing. I don't think she owns anything like that anymore but if I noticed her leaving the house in it, that would be a red flag because I KNOW she finds it uncomfortable. So if she suddenly goes from exclusively wearing the black and white cotton Calvin Klein stuff to a lace thong and bra, and there is no logical explanation for it?🚩


But controlling the underwear does not stop anyone from having that affair. So why get people all paranoid about it? She was having an affair. Whether you burned her underwear or not, she still would have had it. 

Being someone's jailer is not a good marriage. It may make the possessive-of-body guys and women feel better, but it's ridiculous. They need to face reality, not try to convince themselves that because she's wearing granny panties to work, she's not having an affair. They need to work on themselves to know they will survive if the worst happens and get themselves strong and confident enough (through therapy if necessary) that they will then move on in life, instead of spending the rest of their days in misery and paranoia and continuing the same monitoring that will not stop anything in the end and can cross the line into privacy and stalking issues. If your spouse wants to be free, by all means, set them free! If you want to spend your time being a jail warden, go get a job as one. Don't delude yourself into thinking monitoring will stop anything. It will only drive them to it faster if there is any doubt in their mind. Controlling behavior drives people away. What's control worth if she doesn't want you or want to be there anyway? She's already gone, even if you manage to chain her to the kitchen stove.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The only two things I ever bought at VS were 1) a pink terry cloth 50s looking robe with other terry cloth designs on it and 2) a thin long burgandy robe with beautiful trim that I would actually at times wear over my other rock clothes out.
> 
> A woman's body is still her body even if she's married. She can wear whatever underwear she wants. I get nauseous hearing men acting like that's their call on there, always begging her to wear them for them like a hooker but then too prudish and insecure to want them leaving the house with them UNDER THEIR CLOTHES. FFS, people.


Whatchu talkin' bout? I'm for hooker inside, under clothes, outside clothes, hell, nekkid is good. 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But controlling the underwear does not stop anyone from having that affair. So why get people all paranoid about it? She was having an affair. Whether you burned her underwear or not, she still would have had it. Being someone's jailer is not a good marriage. It may make the possessive of body guys feel better, but it's ridiculous.


It seems like these guys are looking for a reason to divorce. They’ve already decided she’s cheating, they’re wanting to catch her at it. It sounds miserable for both of them. Why stay married if you’ve already determined you want to divorce? Men or women, being someone’s jailer is unhealthy. Wanting to be someone’s jailer is psychotic.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Interesting that a lot of men probably don’t mind ogling their coworkers in said stuff but their wives can’t wear it.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But controlling the underwear does not stop anyone from having that affair. So why get people all paranoid about it? She was having an affair. Whether you burned her underwear or not, she still would have had it. Being someone's jailer is not a good marriage. It may make the possessive of body guys feel better, but it's ridiculous.


I didn't say men should control their wife's undergarments. Of course it won't stop a cheater from being a cheater and I wouldn't want to play prison warden either. There is a difference between being controlling, and noticing red flags.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

snowbum said:


> No one said she doesn’t wear them for her husband.


She probably doesn't, otherwise it would have been seen as normal behavior and he wouldn't have thought anything of it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It seems like these guys are looking for a reason to divorce. They’ve already decided she’s cheating, they’re wanting to catch her at it. It sounds miserable for both of them. Why stay married if you’ve already determined you want to divorce? Men or women, being someone’s jailer is unhealthy. Wanting to be someone’s jailer is psychotic.


I honestly think they think if they can get something on them, they are deluding themselves that they can then hold that over their head and control them with it, "get the upper hand." These are people who are just looking for misery.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> I didn't say men should control their wife's undergarments. Of course it won't stop a cheater from being a cheater and I wouldn't want to play prison warden either. There is a difference between being controlling, and noticing red flags.


Noticing and acting on them is two different things.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Noticing and acting on them is two different things.


So if someone notices multiple red flags in their wife's behavior, what should they do?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

snowbum said:


> Interesting that a lot of men probably don’t mind ogling their coworkers in said stuff but their wives can’t wear it.


Truer words were never spoken.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> So if someone notices multiple red flags in their wife's behavior, what should they do?


Talk to them and ask them if they're happy in the marriage, make it clear they themselves would not stay in the marriage if there was infidelity, kids or no kids, go to MC if necessary to see if there is anything more they have to confess or to communicate better. If one spouse is paranoid and the other spouse is not happy, set them free rather than wasting your days getting yourself worked up about things you can't control.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

snowbum said:


> Interesting that a lot of men probably don’t mind ogling their coworkers in said stuff but their wives can’t wear it.


It's even more interesting how you and a couple of other posters can't pay attention to the facts that are being discussed and keep making up imaginary scenarios.😉


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

What do these women do for work? If they work in health field they need to shower. If it’s hot and they sweat all day they might want a shower.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Talk to them and ask them if they're happy in the marriage, make it clear they themselves would not stay in the marriage if there was infidelity, kids or no kids, go to MC if necessary to see if there is anything more they have to confess or to communicate better. If one spouse is paranoid and the other spouse is not happy, set them free rather than wasting your days getting yourself worked up about things you can't control.


You are assuming that a cheater will confess. They usually do not. So what this will do is tell the WS that they need to cover their tracks better.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I won’t pay for Victoria’s Secret so all of my silky and lacy things are from target or kohl’s lol! And they stay in my drawer unless I want to put a show on for my man. If I wore underwear it definitely wouldn’t be the nicer things I’d be wearing to work. The last thing I’d be worried about is fancy panties as I’m getting dressed in the morning.

But I agree, if the Victoria’s secret was being brought up at all then it’s probably something out of the norm. Unless she’s very anal about the brands she wears that seems a bit odd to me.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Cripe underwear on its own shouldn't be a cause for concern. There are other, far more concerning red flags such as the lying, taking off somewhere for a long period of time and lying about where she is, and showering immediately after work. TAKEN TOGETHER these circumstances should warrant suspicion. It is about the TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> You are assuming that a cheater will confess. They usually do not. So what this will do is tell the WS that they need to cover their tracks better.


So what? If you are miserable, whether it's true or not, whether it's her fault or your insecurity, you're miserable. Amounts to the same thing. Just realize it may all be in your imagination and you will take that into the next relationship. Go get therapy and find out if it's your own insecurity. 

Not too many women, innocent or guilty, are going to put up with someone haranguing them about every little thing while always trying to make them "prove" something. It is creating that which you fear most. No self-respecting woman is going to agree to just be locked down and dictated to just because their husband is deluded and has insecurity and paranoia problems. 

And to top it all off, thinking your wife will take any opportunity to cheat on you is actually confessing that that is the way YOU yourself think, that that is what YOU would do and so you assume it's what she or anyone else would do. And that is very often why it's happening, whether actually cheating or thinking about it a lot. Talk about a red flag. Your husband getting all paranoid that you cheat anytime you're out of his grasp is a huge red flag that he either would if he thought he wouldn't get caught or has. It's him telling you, This is how I think: I would if I could and not get caught and so would any reasonable human being.

Being that desperate to lock someone down to protect yourself emotionally is also desperate and needy and very unattractive. But by all means, fly all those red flags for her to see asap so she doesn't waste much more of her life on an insecure paranoid jailer.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Victoria's Secret to work?


I don't think my wife has anything other than VS besides 2 pairs of teal "granny panties".


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

snowbum said:


> What do these women do for work? If they work in health field they need to shower. If it’s hot and they sweat all day they might want a shower.


All of a sudden? And it sounds like a new behavior because the OPs friend is blaming covid. A new behavior that is showing up with several other red flags. 

And sometimes a long list of red flags _doesn't_ mean infidelity. My wife could come here and post long list of things I'm doing/have done and I guarantee people would say I'm banging someone else, and she'd agree. I'm not.

And I could do the same thing about her if I wanted to be paranoid instead of realistic.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So what? If you are miserable, whether it's true or not, whether it's her fault or your insecurity, you're miserable. Amounts to the same thing. Just realize it may all be in your imagination and you will take that into the next relationship. Go get therapy and find out if it's your own insecurity.
> 
> Not too many women, innocent or guilty, are going to put up with someone haranguing them about every little thing while always trying to make them "prove" something. It is creating that which you fear most. No self-respecting woman is going to agree to just be locked down and dictated to just because their husband is deluded and has insecurity and paranoia problems.
> 
> ...


Laughably terrible advice.

I agree that a trashy person isn't worth the turmoil but paying a bit of attention to warning signs isn't insecure.

You really don't have the first clue.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Talk to them and ask them if they're happy in the marriage, make it clear they themselves would not stay in the marriage if there was infidelity, kids or no kids, go to MC if necessary to see if there is anything more they have to confess or to communicate better. If one spouse is paranoid and the other spouse is not happy, set them free rather than wasting your days getting yourself worked up about things you can't control.


People cheat for a variety of reasons, but most don't want to get caught. I think the problem is when people require more concrete evidence than they need in order to break free from these people. There are so many stories on here about people not admitting to cheating, even when confronted with solid evidence, that it renders talking to them about it as futile.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I don't think my wife has anything other than VS besides 2 pairs of teal "granny panties".


I also don't think she lies to you about her whereabouts though right?😉


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I think it’s a waste of time and energy to constantly police your spouse. If you think they’re going to cheat if you don’t monitor their every move, you don’t trust them. How can you ever be happy if you feel that way? I don’t get the point in all that manufactured drama. If you see red flags like this, then confront and end the marriage. Cheaters lie, and if you think she/he is a cheater and a liar, why stay married?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And to top it all off, thinking your wife will take any opportunity to cheat on you is actually confessing that that is the way YOU yourself think, that that is what YOU would do and so you assume it's what she or anyone else would do. And that is very often why it's happening, whether actually cheating or thinking about it a lot. Talk about a red flag. Your husband getting all paranoid that you cheat anytime you're out of his grasp is a huge red flag that he either would if he thought he wouldn't get caught or has. It's him telling you, This is how I think: I would if I could and not get caught and so would any reasonable human being.


Ah, we're back to how awful men are 🙄 

You're right that SOMETIMES a man OR woman accusing their spouse of an affair is guilty themselves. But being suspicious does not PROVE they are guilty of cheating or thinking about it. Maybe, just maybe, he is just aware of the red flags of infidelity.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

I think if you're constantly looking for issues, your brain is going to find them even if they are not real. I don't think monitoring is needed in a marriage with loyalty and trust. That being said if there are red flags like lying about where they are going or things of that nature, it is wise not to bury your head in the sand.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I don't think my wife has anything other than VS besides 2 pairs of teal "granny panties".


Teal, that's pretty racy! 😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think it’s a waste of time and energy to constantly police your spouse. If you think they’re going to cheat if you don’t monitor their every move, you don’t trust them. How can you ever be happy if you feel that way? I don’t get the point in all that manufactured drama. If you see red flags like this, then confront and end the marriage. Cheaters lie, and if you think she/he is a cheater and a liar, why stay married?


Yes, and first, put YOURSELF in therapy and find out if you're creating this out of thin air due to your own insecurities. She doesn't even need to know about it. Start with yourself.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think it’s a waste of time and energy to constantly police your spouse. If you think they’re going to cheat if you don’t monitor their every move, you don’t trust them. How can you ever be happy if you feel that way? I don’t get the point in all that manufactured drama. If you see red flags like this, then confront and end the marriage. Cheaters lie, and if you think she/he is a cheater and a liar, why stay married?


This is why I would never date a person who had been traumatized by a cheating partner. I feel like when you've been burned like that you are going to be expecting it and will be constantly suspicious and I feel like that would get really old really fast.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> Ah, we're back to how awful men are 🙄
> 
> You're right that SOMETIMES a man OR woman accusing their spouse of an affair is guilty themselves. But being suspicious does not PROVE they are guilty of cheating or thinking about it. Maybe, just maybe, he is just aware of the red flags of infidelity.


You know, what we're right back to is awful men accusing women with a women's viewpoint of being awful man haters. That's what we're back to. That's always what we're back to on this forum. Everything I've said is confined to those men who wish to monitor their women. That's the subject of this thread, not "My Man is Wearing Victoria Secret Underwear to Work." That would be a different subject, wouldn't it? Wouldn't it?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes, and first, put YOURSELF in therapy and find out if you're creating this out of thin air due to your own insecurities. She doesn't even need to know about it. Start with yourself.


Yeah, having a therapist who tells you your wife's very odd behavior is _totally _normal is lots of fun. Been there, done that. What did it get me? An extra like 8 years of being cheated on. 

Or, a spouse can look into her odd behavior to see if he's being looney or not. And she also doesn't have to know about that.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is why I would never date a person who had been traumatized by a cheating partner. I feel like when you've been burned like that you are going to be expecting it and will be constantly suspicious and I feel like that would get really old really fast.


Yeah, but how each person handles it differs. If they are stuck in that mode, male or female, I agree I wouldn't want to try to accommodate them on that. However, with time, some people will let someone EARN their trust. It's not easy. And really, who hasn't had some emotional relationship trauma? Everyone I know has. Some jump right back in and say, Bad luck, try again. Some never trust again, some trust if they get to know someone long and well enough to. People who aren't destroyed by emotional trauma are few and far between but they are the ones who just know they will be okay alone or whatever happens and move on. I think we should all strive towards that. Not being so fearful of being left or betrayed that we can't function and become the broken one.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> Yeah, having a therapist who tells you your wife's very odd behavior is _totally _normal is lots of fun. Been there, done that. What did it get me? An extra like 8 years of being cheated on.
> 
> Or, a spouse can look into her odd behavior to see if he's being looney or not. And she also doesn't have to know about that.


Then clearly, you should have gotten out once you became miserable and couldn't foresee a happy ending.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

JBLH said:


> I basically told them that they ought to monitor their SO even if all is ok. I suggested they monitor their 1) texting/calls, 2) their internet activity (facebook+instagram included), 3) their social interactions, 4) their traveling and 5) their nights out.


This just sounds like so much work IMO. If I have to monitor all of this crap, seems preferable to just divorce and live a single existence. BTW, there are cases where husbands did all of what you suggest and still got cheated on with no warning. Where there is a will, there is a way. If a wife wants to do other guys, she will find a way to do it. Your own case is proof of that. What if the OM had clammed up and told you he and your wife were just coworkers and he was happily married? Told you that you were just paranoid.

Your wife passed a poly. which for many on here is the "gold standard".

BTW, I could make a case for your wife, that the OM is p1st cuz she refused his advances so threw her under the bus. I don't believe that, but those kinda things have happened before.



JBLH said:


> Was I out of line?


IMO yes.



Marc878 said:


> You can’t stop a cheater. Being a marriage warden IMO isn’t worth it.


The above is my point of view. You can't stop a determined car thief or cheater.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Then clearly, you should have gotten out once you became miserable and couldn't foresee a happy ending.


You're assuming I was miserable all those years, I wasn't. I was made out to be the bad guy for saying she cheated and accusing her of it, so I trusted that I was wrong and let it go.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They need to face reality, not try to convince themselves that because *she's wearing granny panties to work*, she's not having an affair.


She could just buy the sexy stuff and stash it at work. Change before her "date" and after action is over before heading for "home". In fact, it would surprise me if a cheater were so foolish as to stash their cheating outfits at their home or in their car. Would make more sense to stash it at the OM's place anyway. So there is one easily bypassed red flag.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> She could just buy the sexy stuff and stash it at work. Change before her "date" and after action is over before heading for "home". In fact, it would surprise me if a cheater were so foolish as to stash their cheating outfits at their home or in their car. Would make more sense to stash it at the OM's place anyway. So there is one easily bypassed red flag.


I guess we're not talking about women who are assumed to have operating brains in this thread, tho, Rus.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’m not joining in on y’all’s argument except to say if you want the good stuff for your woman sign her up on AdoreMe.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


@JBLH I’m not entirely on board with this if taken as a general guideline for all relationships.

Considering the red flags for your friends in this case, then yeah, digging deeper looks to be warranted.

From a general relationship standpoint, I would suggest both men and women pay attention and are engaged/aware of their SO activities. Just don’t check out of the relationship and go on autopilot.

But I don’t think one should be so insecure that monitoring is required without cause. Once there is doubt… then yes I’m on board with monitoring, digging, and confirming as needed. And that’s for both sexes.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I’m not joining in on y’all’s argument except to say if you want the good stuff for your woman sign her up on AdoreMe.


 
My wife might or might not have a membership there. Good call out.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

So it's about the context of what was said/ noted by the poster. Ok if my wife were to occasionally wear what men consider to be "sexy" undergarments to bed or around the house for letting me know she's interested, then yes...this would be something I'd note or be concerned about as to why the sudden shift to wearing all the time. Especially to work, around male coworker(s) that you've been in contact away from the job and suddenly talked about around me. Now if this was her norm in attire, I wouldn't consider it for a moment.
It's all.about context. Maybe JBLH forgot to mention that specifically about his friend and his wife. More clarification?
Based on his statements of now friendly with male coworkers away from the job, starting to wear undergarments she normally doesn't wear other places, now after a long pandemic suddenly "NEEDING" to shower as soon as she gets home from work, saying gonna go do the grocery shopping and it's gonna take awhile, yet getting a call from that store saying order is ready for pickup? Maybe all missed that one, it's a huge flag! Going shopping for food, saying it's gonna take awhile, after leaving get a call from store order is ready for pickup? So she preordered the food stuffs, said I'm gonna go "shopping for said items", gonna take awhile? Why God to shop and say that if it's a phone in order? Why tell him it's gonna take awhile, if it's a phone in order? Either she's sloppy or trying to get caught.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I guess we're not talking about women who are assumed to have operating brains in this thread, tho, Rus.


Well in case where OM also is married, as @JBLH case (did OBS know?) guess stashing at OMs house or car wouldnt work. A devious mind will find a way even then. @JBLH was ready to reconcile after the poly. So his wife nearly dodged divorce.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I guess we're not talking about women who are assumed to have operating brains in this thread, tho, Rus.


Yes, a woman would be SO smart to store her undies at a married man's house or in her desk drawer at the office. Genius idea. 

Most cheaters are too dumb to think they would ever be caught. Even cheaters with a vagina.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

JBLH said:


> ..... one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes *his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower *(he says she blames COVID-LOL) *and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs.* In a nutshell, I saw *red flags everywhere*. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> *I basically told them that they ought to monitor their SO even if all is ok.* I suggested they monitor their 1) texting/calls, 2) their internet activity (facebook+instagram included), 3) their social interactions, 4) their traveling and 5) their nights out. I also told them to do this right after their nights out or after they noticed a subtle change in behavior or if they see their SO deleting texts.
> 
> *Was I out of line? Did I miss anything? Doing some preventive monitoring isn’t going to kill their SO.*





> *I basically told them that they ought to monitor their SO even if all is ok.
> Was I out of line? Did I miss anything?*


Well, sort of. If everything really is OK, then no, secretly monitoring an SO is really a breach of trust and privacy. Trust is suppose to be a two-way street and breaking it could destroy a relationship.

However, in the case of the married man, the amount of red flags actually warrants some monitoring. Yes, you missed the part about him getting tested for STD's. 

Not sure about the other guy.

Good luck on your divorce recovery.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I’m probably wrong but the whole encounter seems like a women suck conversation in which doubts may be planted. Or the wives are cheating. Flip a coin


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

snowbum said:


> I’m probably wrong but the whole encounter seems like a women suck conversation in which doubts may be planted. Or the wives are cheating. Flip a coin


You’ve seen the peeps here on TAM… sometime doubts _need_ to be planted. I took this as that. Not so much a woman bashing thing.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

bobert said:


> So if someone notices multiple red flags in their wife's behavior, what should they do?


I would say do legal things. Talk to her about where she was and if the two of you can spend more time together. If it is a joint phone account, I would check out the call activity and text activity and numbers. If you have joint checking and credit card accounts, I would check those out as well to see if there are any suspicious activities. Those are all things that the married man could probably do, quite legally. The VAR may be less expensive than a private detective, but possibly illegal without her permission. 

As to the guy with the girlfriend, he


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah, but how each person handles it differs. If they are stuck in that mode, male or female, I agree I wouldn't want to try to accommodate them on that. However, with time, some people will let someone EARN their trust. It's not easy. And really, who hasn't had some emotional relationship trauma? Everyone I know has. Some jump right back in and say, Bad luck, try again. Some never trust again, some trust if they get to know someone long and well enough to. People who aren't destroyed by emotional trauma are few and far between but they are the ones who just know they will be okay alone or whatever happens and move on. I think we should all strive towards that. Not being so fearful of being left or betrayed that we can't function and become the broken one.


When I was younger I had that kind of patience in my mid 40s I don't think I would. Luckily I don't see being single again happening.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JBLH said:


> A Victoria Secrets’ thong?
> 
> No.
> 
> Only the husband is supposed to see that.


Just because she's wearing it does not mean that anyone else is seeing it. A lot of women wear those as their daily underwear.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

snowbum said:


> I’m probably wrong but the whole encounter seems like a women suck conversation in which doubts may be planted. Or the wives are cheating. Flip a coin


Women by default are actually human, therefore, they suck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Damn right she can't. Victoria's secret is marketed and purchased as sex wear.


Yea, these thongs sold by Victoria's secret are super dupper sex wear.  They look just like thongs sold at Walmart, but since they have the name Victoria secret on the label, they are sex wear, right? I know quite a few women who buy all their under garments of VS and lot of it is not "sex wear".










ConanHub said:


> If my wife wants to wear sex wear for others, she can let the door hit her in the ass on her way out.


Who says a woman is wearing it for anyone else? She might just be wearing it for herself because she likes it.



ConanHub said:


> Don't ignore the lies and hiding crap either. That's a juvenile stance and argument.
> 
> If you want to be married to a lying man that hides things from you and exhibits sexy behavior towards others, go for it and we won't think you're a hypocrite.
> 
> We won't think your very bright but not a hypocrite.😋


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think it’s a waste of time and energy to constantly police your spouse. If you think they’re going to cheat if you don’t monitor their every move, you don’t trust them. How can you ever be happy if you feel that way? I don’t get the point in all that manufactured drama. If you see red flags like this, then confront and end the marriage. Cheaters lie, and if you think she/he is a cheater and a liar, why stay married?


Sadly, confronting a cheater seldom works because they lie. So doing some investigation is a good idea. But it needs to be limited.

For example, when I was married to my son's father, I found a letter in his home office trash from some woman who worked at the same hospital. It was the only thing in the trash and was obviously not 'normal' in appearance in that it was fancy feminine paper & envelope. I read it. Then I did some investigation and found out who she was. I found out that they had been cheating for some time. Took me 2 or 3 days to figure this out. Confronted him. He lied and lied and lied. I filed for divorce.

With my stepchildren's father, he traveled a lot. One day I was on his home computer and some woman started a chat thinking it was him online. Something was off with her chats. I pretended to be him for maybe 5 minutes then told her that I was his wife. She was freaked out, did not know he was married, etc. Then I searched his chat history and found out that he was cheating with a few women. He traveled a lot for work and had women he'd meet up with in the cities he went to regularly. I confronted him. He lied and lied and lied. 

I think that trust and verify is important. But "trust and verify" does not mean to constantly spy on one's spouse and turn it into a lifestyle.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Sadly, confronting a cheater seldom works because they lie. So doing some investigation is a good idea. But it needs to be limited.
> 
> For example, when I was married to my son's father, I found a letter in his home office trash from some woman who worked at the same hospital. It was the only thing in the trash and was obviously not 'normal' in appearance in that it was fancy feminine paper & envelope. I read it. Then I did some investigation and found out who she was. I found out that they had been cheating for some time. Took me 2 or 3 days to figure this out. Confronted him. He lied and lied and lied. I filed for divorce.
> 
> ...


Agreed. There’s a difference between recognizing and following up on red flags and the suggestion that someone should actively monitor their spouse’s life even when they have no reason to. The OP suggested that men should monitor all of their wives communications and not allow them any privacy “just in case.” That’s not a marriage, it’s a hostage situation. It’s not healthy for either person.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So what? If you are miserable, whether it's true or not, whether it's her fault or your insecurity, you're miserable. Amounts to the same thing. Just realize it may all be in your imagination and you will take that into the next relationship. Go get therapy and find out if it's your own insecurity.
> 
> Not too many women, innocent or guilty, are going to put up with someone haranguing them about every little thing while always trying to make them "prove" something. It is creating that which you fear most. No self-respecting woman is going to agree to just be locked down and dictated to just because their husband is deluded and has insecurity and paranoia problems.
> 
> ...


Ok, so you don't think it's odd that the guys wife preordered the groceries, then says she going shopping for those groceries, that she'll gone awhile doing so and not long after the store calls and says your grocery order is ready for pickup? I would be curious to know the exchange between them when she did come home.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, these thongs sold by Victoria's secret are super dupper sex wear.  They look just like thongs sold at Walmart, but since they have the name Victoria secret on the label, they are sex wear, right? I know quite a few women who buy all their under garments of VS and lot of it is not "sex wear".
> View attachment 91207
> 
> 
> Who says a woman is wearing it for anyone else? She might just be wearing it for herself because she likes it.


Ok Ele. The lying about whereabouts wasn't mentioned by you here. Miss that part?

You are also insinuating that it was normal for the guy mentioned and it obviously wasn't since he was bothered by it.

You've been cheated on and this thread is about paying attention to people behaving sketchy and advising about it.

Do you really believe the woman in question is perfectly justified in lying to her husband?

It at least warrants scrutiny.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TinyTbone said:


> Ok, so you don't think it's odd that the guys wife preordered the groceries, then says she going shopping for those groceries, that she'll gone awhile doing so and not long after the store calls and says your grocery order is ready for pickup? I would be curious to know the exchange between them when she did come home.


I just preordered my groceries and went and picked them up and the store told me they were ready for pickup. I still consider that shopping for groceries myself. I think that is really just looking for any tiny thing to validate his fears. Not to mention, she may have actually stopped someplace else for something as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Everything the OP said could be said about me and I have never cheated. I've been cheated on by the men I've been married to... I mean serial cheaters. But I've always been faithful. So, I'm going to go through this post and talk about how it would apply to me. The reason I'm doing this is taht on TAM, the go-to position is to assume cheating. While I believe that trust and verify is important. I also think that it's a balance and it's very easy to become paranoid and we see a lot of that paranoia here on TAM.



TinyTbone said:


> So it's about the context of what was said/ noted by the poster.


Yep, context is imporant. But sometimes "context" is assumed in the head of the reader.



TinyTbone said:


> Ok if my wife were to occasionally wear what men consider to be "sexy" undergarments to bed or around the house for letting me know she's interested, then yes...this would be something I'd note or be concerned about as to why the sudden shift to wearing all the time. Especially to work, around male coworker(s) that you've been in contact away from the job and suddenly talked about around me. Now if this was her norm in attire, I wouldn't consider it for a moment
> It's all.about context. Maybe JBLH forgot to mention that specifically about his friend and his wife. More clarification?


Exactly... it's all about context.

To evaluate her wearing VS undergarments one would need to know if this is something new or if it's normal for her to wear sexy undergarments and her husband is just the jealous type. But instead of asking for details people on the thread just jump to the assumption that she's wearing them only at work. And they assume that men at work can see through her clothing and see the undergarments.



TinyTbone said:


> Based on his statements of now friendly with male coworkers away from the job,


I've always worked in jobs that had mostly make coworkers. I was always friendly with them. Why would I not make friends with my coworkers? And I never cheated.



TinyTbone said:


> starting to wear undergarments she normally doesn't wear other places,


In the OP it does not say that she is "starting to wear undergarments she normally doesn't wear other places". It just says that she wears them. A lot of women wear sexy undergarments under their work clothing. When I was younger almost all of my undergarments were sexy. I liked wearing that stuff. No guy at work ever saw it. I wore it for me, not for them.



TinyTbone said:


> now after a long pandemic suddenly "NEEDING" to shower as soon as she gets home from work,


I almost always showed after work. Sometimes I came home and took a long bath. It's a great way to relax after work and get ready for an evening at home. This does not automatically mean she's cheating.



TinyTbone said:


> saying gonna go do the grocery shopping and it's gonna take awhile, yet getting a call from that store saying order is ready for pickup? Maybe all missed that one, it's a huge flag! Going shopping for food, saying it's gonna take awhile, after leaving get a call from store order is ready for pickup? So she preordered the food stuffs, said I'm gonna go "shopping for said items", gonna take awhile? Why God to shop and say that if it's a phone in order? Why tell him it's gonna take awhile, if it's a phone in order? Either she's sloppy or trying to get caught.


I often will put in a food order at Walmart that I'm going to pick up. Then I also stop at other stores to get things that Walmart does not carry. Sometimes I even go to stores that sell non-food items to pick things up. When I do this, I just say I'm going to the store for groceries because that's the major thing I'm going out for. Plus, my partner is not paranoid. He does not need an itinerary from me. He'd probably be annoyed if I listed every store I might go to. When I do that, I am often late for the Walmart grocery pickup time. But they hold the order for 24 hours so it's not a problem.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, these thongs sold by Victoria's secret are super dupper sex wear.  They look just like thongs sold at Walmart, but since they have the name Victoria secret on the label, they are sex wear, right? I know quite a few women who buy all their under garments of VS and lot of it is not "sex wear".
> View attachment 91207
> 
> 
> Who says a woman is wearing it for anyone else? She might just be wearing it for herself because she likes it.


P.S. those are pretty sexy on a woman.😉

When I responded to snow, she was making a fake argument about wearing VS that no one was arguing about.

The woman's sketchy behavior combined with wearing something to work that her husband was bothered by was the issue.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

snowbum said:


> So women can’t wear the underwear they want? I’ve never wore a thong and never will , you do know some women have always like things like some men like boxers. So now women who prefer thongs are cheaters? Seriously? Come on. You spy on your wife’s clothing? Monitor what she wears? WTH???


Doesn't it depend on whether it's what she usually wears?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I think his wife wanted alone time for her. Maybe going to other stores and hitting groceries last. Funny the men had no reason to question before the guy cheated on shared all these things. You’ll see **** everywhere if you want to. It’s not always real. For instance : husband runs at lunch. Could he run with an OW? Could they have a quickie in the bushes or locker room? Sure? But I highly doubt it and if you look for the worst and nefarious everywhere it destroys you. Wise people here said that. Now that it’s a guy asking about his wife it seems the concerns are more valid.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Everything the OP said could be said about me and I have never cheated. I've been cheated on by the men I've been married to... I mean serial cheaters. But I've always been faithful. So, I'm going to go through this post and talk about how it would apply to me. The reason I'm doing this is taht on TAM, the go-to position is to assume cheating. While I believe that trust and verify is important. I also think that it's a balance and it's very easy to become paranoid and we see a lot of that paranoia here on TAM.
> 
> 
> Yep, context is imporant. But sometimes "context" is assumed in the head of the reader.
> ...


That's reasonable. So the guy in the OP is imagining things and his wife didn't lie at all.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JBLH said:


> Well, supposedly he’s caught her lying before. According to him she would tell him that she was going to the local Whole Foods to get the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her “a while.” All of a sudden HE would get a phone call from the Whole Foods to let him know that his order was ready for pickup (meaning she was somewhere else). Or that she was going to TJ Max to get an article of clothing he’d already seen hidden in the back of the closet.


This is sketchy folks.

I wouldn't investigate, I would confront and let it be known this was ridiculous behavior.

If nonsense continued, I would be out anyway because, regardless of cheating, I like dealing with adult women, not juveniles.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Ok Ele. The lying about whereabouts wasn't mentioned by you here. Miss that part?


You mean about her saying that she was going to go grocery shoping and then the store calling to say that the order was ready for pickup? Maybe that's not the only store she was shopping at. I do that, place an order for standard things. Then I go to other stores to get things that I could not get in the order. Then after that go pick up the order.



ConanHub said:


> You are also insinuating that it was normal for the guy mentioned and it obviously wasn't since he was bothered by it.
> 
> You've been cheated on and this thread is about paying attention to people behaving sketchy and advising about it.


I don't know the guy. Don't know if he's just paranoid or if there is a problem. If the guy were here, I'd ask him more questions to try to figure out what's going on. But we get this story through a 3rd party who can't answer any questions. My take is to trust but verify. That's not the same as immediately going to the position taht she's a lying cheater.



ConanHub said:


> Do you really believe the woman in question is perfectly justified in lying to her husband?


I don't know that she's lying to her husband. Again, this story is told through a 3rd party and so I can't get details. Like the bit about her going to TJ Max to get an article of clothing he’d already seen hidden in the back of the closet. That makes little sense and I'd like more details about it before assuming that she's lying. 



ConanHub said:


> It at least warrants scrutiny.


Sure, if a person is feeling that something is up, they should verify. But most of this thread it people accusing this woman of cheating when we know little to nothing about what's going on.


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## Tuscany (10 mo ago)

Don't monitor your spouse's activities, underpants, etc. unless you have a damn good reason. You're better off going straight to marriage counseling if you have concerns than trying to spy. If spouse is innocent it will backfire on you and damage your marriage.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Okay, y'all, now Google is sending me Victoria's Secrets ads and it's all your fault. 
I wondered why no granny panty sellers, and then I realized I am already on all their email lists.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> That's reasonable. So the guy in the OP is imagining things and his wife didn't lie at all.


Nope, I'm saying don't jump to conclusions and accuse this woman of cheating when we don't know enough to make that call.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

That TJMaxx thing is probably she bought it and thought he might not want her to spend the money on it so then she waited until a good time to see and then pretended she was just now going to buy it. Old as time.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Nope, I'm saying don't jump to conclusions and accuse this woman of cheating when we don't know enough to make that call.


I didn't say she was cheating but her behavior does warrant scrutiny and fabricating stories about men claiming women who buy VS are cheating is a straw man argument and a derailment tactic which snow was employing.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

JBLH said:


> Well, supposedly he’s caught her lying before. According to him she would tell him that she was going to the local Whole Foods to get the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her “a while.” All of a sudden HE would get a phone call from the Whole Foods to let him know that his order was ready for pickup (meaning she was somewhere else). Or that she was going to TJ Max to get an article of clothing he’d already seen hidden in the back of the closet.
> 
> The main issue is that us guys NEVER talk about this kind of stuff. He’s most likely too late as is, although I didn’t have the heart to tell him. He’s going to have a fire pit get together soon, so I’ll know if he took my advise and, if so, if he found out his wife is cheating on him. Once I know that I’ll let him know what to do next (shut up and hit the record button so he can get a much better divorce outcome).


Sense his eyes are apparently open enough to catch these lies and red flags, what the hell is he doing about it? 
Why the hell is he sitting passively by and tolerating this stuff? WTF is wrong with this guy?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That TJMaxx thing is probably she bought it and thought he might not want her to spend the money on it so then she waited until a good time to see and then pretended she was just now going to buy it. Old as time.


So in the context of everything else he’s caught her doing, this is what you want to go with…?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Using a v a r or tracking device is illegal in the United States and some other places, even on your spouse unless you have permission from your spouse. There are numerous legal sites who strongly advise against it. It is a federal law and then States may also prosecuted depending on their laws. It's an invasion of privacy.


Wrong, if it’s his car, he can do whatever he wants with it. 
I could legally put a tracking device on every single car I own if I felt like it, including the one my wife drives. 
Besides that, many new cars already have GPS installed anyway, which you can see from the app where that vehicle is at any given time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> So in the context of everything else he’s caught her doing, this is what you want to go with…?


Caught her doing or imagined she's doing? 
Yup.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Wrong, if it’s his car, he can do whatever he wants with it.
> I could legally put a tracking device on every single car I own if I felt like it, including the one my wife drives.
> Besides that, many new cars already have GPS installed anyway, which you can see from the app where that vehicle is at any given time.


Nope. Not unless she says it's okay. Can the leasing company put a tracker on any car they lease because it's in their name?


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## Tuscany (10 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> I could legally put a tracking device on every single car I own if I felt like it, including the one my wife drives.


 Is your marriage in good shape? I ask because it seems problematic when one half of a married couple things that most of us regard as common property (the cars, the house, the couch) as their sole possessions.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The OP suggested that men should monitor all of their wives communications and not allow them any privacy “just in case.” That’s not a marriage, it’s a hostage situation. It’s not healthy for either person.


He did not suggest all men do this, only two of his friends. He then asked for others opinions if he had been out of line.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Nope. Not unless she says it's okay. Can the leasing company put a tracker on any car they lease because it's in their name?


Yes, many new cars (bought or leased) have gps on them already. 
Whoever buys or leases the car gets an app that can track the car anytime they want. And their spouse does not have to approve.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DudeInProgress said:


> Yes, many new cars (bought or leased) have gps on them already.
> Whoever buys or leases the car gets an app that can track the car anytime they want. And their spouse does not have to approve.


Legal arguments with this one aren't fruitful. She has been outed falsifying outcomes.

I don't know why she keeps beating her horse. It was jerkified ages ago and the skeleton is threatening to start turning to dust.😋


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Nope. Not unless she says it's okay. Can the leasing company put a tracker on any car they lease because it's in their name?


You're wrong about the gps.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Nope. Not unless she says it's okay. Can the leasing company put a tracker on any car they lease because it's in their name?


Interesting the role “ownership” plays in this, isn’t it?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Yes, many new cars (bought or leased) have gps on them already.
> Whoever buys or leases the car gets an app that can track the car anytime they want. And their spouse does not have to approve.


Not without you signing off on it. Just read about it.

There is a whole thread on the subject of legality with plenty of references from attorneys, so you're beating a dead horse here.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not without you signing off on it. Just read about it.
> 
> There is a whole thread on the subject of legality with plenty of references from attorneys, so you're beating a dead horse here.


It's your dead horse that's being beaten.😉


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Tuscany said:


> Is your marriage in good shape? I ask because it seems problematic when one half of a married couple things that most of us regard as common property (the cars, the house, the couch) as their sole possessions.


My point was in response to a poster who said it’s illegal to put a gps on your vehicle without your spouses permission. Which it’s not if you own the vehicle.

Personally, I don’t have GPS on my/our vehicles (other than the one that came with it from the factory). 
But I wouldn’t hesitate to add it if faced with suspicious behavior. And I’d be well within my legal right to do it.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Caught her doing or imagined she's doing?
> Yup.


How has he imagined her wearing underwear, lying about her whereabouts, and showering as soon as she comes home? None of that it imagined. It is fact. The reasons why she has done those things is unknown, and what BOTH sides here are doing is making **** up because no one knows what she's doing but her (and whoever she wants to know).


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not without you signing off on it. Just read about it.
> 
> There is a whole thread on the subject of legality with plenty of references from attorneys, so you're beating a dead horse here.


A person can gps any car they own without permission, because well they own it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not without you signing off on it. Just read about it.
> 
> There is a whole thread on the subject of legality with plenty of references from attorneys, so you're beating a dead horse here.


I think technically he can turn on the GPS in the car, if it’s leased/bought in his name. It’s not her property, it’s his. It’s supposed to be used for anti-theft. We have GPS on our cars in case they’re stolen.

It’s not the same as tracking her phone without her permission. Unless he bought her a phone. Then it’s not her phone, it’s his phone, and he owns it and she should have no expectation of privacy. 

Of course my car is in my name. But I suppose my H could lowjack my car. If he decided he didn’t want to be married to me any more. I’d wonder why he wasted time playing Magnum PI instead of just divorcing me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bobert said:


> How has he imagined her wearing underwear, lying about her whereabouts, and showering as soon as she comes home? None of that it imagined. It is fact. The reasons why she has done those things is unknown, and what BOTH sides here are doing is making **** up because no one knows what she's doing but her (and whoever she wants to know).


Her behavior is sketchy but it doesn't mean she is cheating. I'd still have a talk and get it sorted.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Interesting the role “ownership” plays in this, isn’t it?


What's so interesting about it?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> How has he imagined her wearing underwear, lying about her whereabouts, and showering as soon as she comes home? None of that it imagined. It is fact. The reasons why she has done those things is unknown, and what BOTH sides here are doing is making **** up because no one knows what she's doing but her (and whoever she wants to know).


None of that is anything out of the ordinary.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Benbutton said:


> A person can gps any car they own without permission, because well they own it.


I'm not going to repost the stuff I posted before from attorneys. But you stalkers should read it.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> None of that is anything out of the ordinary.


You *don't* know that. It may be out of the ordinary for the woman in this case.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

bobert said:


> You *don't* know that. It may be out of the ordinary for the woman in this case.


You don't know that. It could be all completely normal. The subject is whether you should just monitor your spouse just in case. No. No, you shouldn't. It's asinine and paranoid and not in good faith at all.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

If the sexes were reversed here, and the story was the husband started wearing fancier clothes and cologne to work (in the context of several other huge red flags), I don't think any men in this thread would be jumping to the husband's defense. I know I wouldn't.

Many people are unwilling to divorce and break up their family, especially with kids involved, without concrete proof. I was definitely one of them myself. "Just ask them" or "get in marriage counseling" is the advice of someone who has never dealt with infidelity. The number of cheaters that will confess upon 'just being asked' is infinitesimally small. Also, the number who will continue to lie in the face of irrefutable evidence seems to be amazingly high based on the stories we see around TAM. But, at least the BS can divorce based on facts if they get proof, which almost always requires snooping, PI, GPS tracker, and other less-than-forthright means.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not going to repost the stuff I posted before from attorneys. But you stalkers should read it.


I was on it and debunked you quite thoroughly.

Do you have amnesia?


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Her behavior is sketchy but it doesn't mean she is cheating. I'd still have a talk and get it sorted.


I agree. A few months ago I probably would have said there was a high likelihood that she's cheating. Then my wife started accusing me of cheating with a long list of "proof" that looks bad on paper and to the paranoid but each thing has an explanation that doesn't involve cheating. So who knows. If I was feeling suspicious, I'd look into it. If it was nothing out of the norm then I wouldn't even be thinking about it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

bobert said:


> I agree. A few months ago I probably would have said there was a high likelihood that she's cheating. Then my wife started accusing me of cheating with a long list of "proof" that looks bad on paper and to the paranoid but each thing has an explanation that doesn't involve cheating. So who knows. If I was feeling suspicious, I'd look into it. If it was nothing out of the norm then I wouldn't even be thinking about it.


Same. Honesty is a must though.

My Mrs has never lied about her whereabouts or a purchase.

My only concern has been for her safety and not that she is cheating because she has always been trustworthy.

If my wife was behaving like that example woman, I would be conversing with her about the nonsense and it would stop.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not going to repost the stuff I posted before from attorneys. But you stalkers should read it.


So you're wrong and you result to name calling. Real mature. For the record I've never stalked a woman, never recorded, used gps, no pi, none of it. But I have had a drunken ex-gf point a pistol of mine at me. She had control and jealousy issues, so I know what it's like to have somebody behave in the ways you rail against, and believe me - men aren't the only ones who engage in such behavior. 

It's simple and has nothing to do with gender, if a person owns said property they can gps said property. You were being called out for dispensing legal advice that was wrong.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Benbutton said:


> So you're wrong and you result to name calling. Real mature. For the record I've never stalked a woman, never recorded, used gps, no pi, none of it. But I have had a drunken ex-gf point a pistol of mine at me. She had control and jealousy issues, so I know what it's like to have somebody behave in the ways you rail against, and believe me - men aren't the only ones who engage in such behavior.
> 
> It's simple and has nothing to do with gender, if a person owns said property they can gps said property. You were being called out for dispensing legal advice that was wrong.


I can link the receipts on this if you're interested. This seriously borders on delusions on her part. She is actually referencing a thread where she was exposed with her pants down.🧐


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I can link the receipts on this if you're interested. This seriously borders on delusions on her part. She is actually referencing a thread where she was exposed with her pants down.🧐


I think I recall there was one about recording people, but yes I'd like that, thank you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Benbutton said:


> I think I recall there was one about recording people, but yes I'd like that, thank you.











Shouldn't there be a rule...


That is s That is just silly. You are thinking.like a single person. We combine everything because it is the most efficient and cost effective. This is not good advice for a married couple. Some people just have trouble grasping the concept that married is different than single. Behavioral...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Shouldn't there be a rule...
> 
> 
> That is s That is just silly. You are thinking.like a single person. We combine everything because it is the most efficient and cost effective. This is not good advice for a married couple. Some people just have trouble grasping the concept that married is different than single. Behavioral...
> ...


Ha!! That's the thread I was thinking about! You were accused of harassment, 😆 🤣!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Benbutton said:


> Ha!! That's the thread I was thinking about! You were accused of harassment, 😆 🤣!


It's still pretty sad that she is referencing her exposure for false information.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Benbutton said:


> So you're wrong and you result to name calling. Real mature. For the record I've never stalked a woman, never recorded, used gps, no pi, none of it. But I have had a drunken ex-gf point a pistol of mine at me. She had control and jealousy issues, so I know what it's like to have somebody behave in the ways you rail against, and believe me - men aren't the only ones who engage in such behavior.
> 
> It's simple and has nothing to do with gender, if a person owns said property they can gps said property. You were being called out for dispensing legal advice that was wrong.


Good luck with that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Good luck with that.


No luck involved. Proven case history. Facts over feelings 😉


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Used Car Dealers Using GPS Tracking to Monitor Car Financing


Used car dealers are now using updated GPS tracking technology for cars they finance, in case a buyer defaults on payment. Selling a used car to someone who has a bad track record for paying their …




www.liveviewgps.com





"There are at least three dealerships in the area using GPS tracking devices, including Massey Motors. *The customer gives consent to them before installing the device*; most are fine with it because it ensures they can get financed for their car."


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Good luck with that.


It's no big deal, I'm sure you were just mistaken.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Benbutton said:


> It's no big deal, I'm sure you were just mistaken.


Nope, but whatever gets you through the night.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Used Car Dealers Using GPS Tracking to Monitor Car Financing
> 
> 
> Used car dealers are now using updated GPS tracking technology for cars they finance, in case a buyer defaults on payment. Selling a used car to someone who has a bad track record for paying their …
> ...


Stop with the nonsense already. The dealership sold the car and received permission to gps a car they hold a title to. The person who bought the car can now install their own as well.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> I was on it and debunked you quite thoroughly.
> 
> Do you have amnesia?


Do you? As I told you a few months ago, apparently you didn't read through to the end for that example you requested that I provided to show that such laws are actually acted upon. I provided a statement from a court in Texas that said spouses were not excluded from the privacy laws. And of course, the Federal statute I quoted by number already says it applies to all.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> It's still pretty sad that she is referencing her exposure for false information.


That's a good one. Considering you know better.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Do you? As I told you a few months ago, apparently you didn't read through to the end for that example you requested that I provided to show that such laws are actually acted upon. I provided a statement from a court in Texas that said spouses were not excluded from the privacy laws. And of course, the Federal law already says it applies to all.


I just showed you a receipt where you stated the man went to jail when he clearly didn't.

Keep preaching about your thread where you were exposed falsifying legal proceedings and I will continue to happily continue sharing your falsification.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> That's a good one. Considering you know better.


The case you falsely represented knows better.

Get help.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> I just showed you a receipt where you stated the man went to jail when he clearly didn't.
> 
> Keep preaching about your thread where you were exposed falsifying legal proceedings and I will continue to happily continue sharing your falsification.


I suggest you go back to that thread and read to the end of it. And I really can't account for why you think you know better than a clear federal statute does and think you need more verification that that to begin with. That's the really confounding part. Everything else is immaterial on that subject. I guess you wouldn't be the first to think the laws don't apply to them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I suggest you go back to that thread and read to the end of it. And I really can't account for why you think you know better than a clear federal statute does and think you need more verification that that to begin with. That's the really confounding part. Everything else is immaterial on that subject. I guess you wouldn't be the first to think the laws don't apply to them.


You have nothing without case law and interpretation of that law.


As it's already been proven, your interpretation is wildly inaccurate.

Get some judgements and I will concur. Until then, you are just spouting useless opinion.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But controlling the underwear does not stop anyone from having that affair. So why get people all paranoid about it? She was having an affair. Whether you burned her underwear or not, she still would have had it.
> 
> Being someone's jailer is not a good marriage. It may make the possessive-of-body guys and women feel better, but it's ridiculous. They need to face reality, not try to convince themselves that because she's wearing granny panties to work, she's not having an affair. They need to work on themselves to know they will survive if the worst happens and get themselves strong and confident enough (through therapy if necessary) that they will then move on in life, instead of spending the rest of their days in misery and paranoia and continuing the same monitoring that will not stop anything in the end and can cross the line into privacy and stalking issues. If your spouse wants to be free, by all means, set them free! If you want to spend your time being a jail warden, go get a job as one. Don't delude yourself into thinking monitoring will stop anything. It will only drive them to it faster if there is any doubt in their mind. Controlling behavior drives people away. What's control worth if she doesn't want you or want to be there anyway? She's already gone, even if you manage to chain her to the kitchen stove.


I´ve never, not once in my life, took a look on the private communication of a woman at my side and never would.
I´ve never, not once in my life, voiced my oppinion on how a woman at my side choosed to dress, exception made when explicitely asked for or to compliment her.
This as part of a wider respect for her own choices.
Even so that focus on individuality, her´s.
Is that relevant enough to become the last word about a relationship? Hardly.

I´m a self confident man. Individually, so if single as if not.
So that focus on individuality, mine.
Is that relevant enough to become the last word about a relationship? Hardly.

Why?
Cos IMO (just IMO) relationships where individuality concerns, being them important, are the Holy Grail of it all are not at all worth my hopes and wishes.
And also IMO (just IMO) those concerns miss the intrinsic nature of relationships (at least the ones I find of value) to focus in what is not in the core of their meaning.
Like a good grip, needed but far from being the defining side of a (let´s say) knife.

But there is another also significative point.
Some argue on what is a "red flag" and what not.
Both red flags and trust are related to what is not known.
This assumes that what is known, some facts and behaviours as they are and while don´t lead "further" should be acceptable. And what we should trust is about "intentions".
Not necessarily or not for me.

That is, some facts and behaviours as they are visible would be the end of the involved relationship.
That without objecting the individual right to choose them.
And neither as mainly my own right to choose, although implied.
But cos I may find them, regardles the intentions and in itselves, not merely red flags of a potential something, but stuff not compatible with the kind of relationship I want.
Even if socially accepted as "harmless" for the sacred sake of sacred individuality.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> You have nothing without case law and interpretation of that law.
> 
> 
> As it's already been proven, your interpretation is wildly inaccurate.
> ...


Again, for the fourth time, I suggest you go read to the end of that thread where there is a statement by the Texas court for the senseless thing you are asking for. You don't need judgments. There is a federal statute about it. And do your own homework. You seem to not even know how the whole thing is set up and fits together, so what you asked for was ridiculous to begin with. The law is what is says it is. It's nothing to do with my interpretation.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

So @DownByTheRiver, it seems like you have an ax to grind. I guess you have been outed by somewhat nefarious means in your past?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Again, for the fourth time, I suggest you go read to the end of that thread where there is a statement by the Texas court for the senseless thing you are asking for. You don't need judgments. There is a federal statute about it. And do your own homework. You seem to not even know how the whole thing is set up and fits together, so what you asked for was ridiculous to begin with. The law is what is says it is. It's nothing to do with my interpretation.


You don't understand. You are interpreting the law how you want with no case history or judgements.

The one example you came up with proved what you were saying was false.

That is how it works.
.case law and judgements.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

OnTheRocks said:


> So @DownByTheRiver, it seems like you have an ax to grind. I guess you have been outed by somewhat nefarious means in your past?


Nope.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> You don't understand. You are interpreting the law how you want with no case history or judgements.
> 
> The one example you came up with proved what you were saying was false.
> 
> ...


I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I'm not interpreting the law at all. I was citing the law in that other thread, very specifically. You asked for something stupid that doesn't matter ( I assume because you just don't get how it all works) and I quickly tried to find something just to be polite. Then you found out the guy didn't do time. So you took that as a victory of some sort. I'm happy for you. 

I told you you'd need to pay a paralegal or attorney to provide what you were asking for because you'd need to know a case title to find it. You ignored that. You ignored that all you really need to know is that there is a federal statute that covers it, cited in its entirety. You just don't understand that apparently, no biggie. So I again went and scrambled and found you some Texas court statements on the subject, which you either haven't read or pretend you haven't read so you can bask in your imaginary glory, my friend.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not going to keep repeating myself.


You have no evidence of judgements or case history so far so you are repeating your opinion with no evidence.

I'm not unreasonable. Judgements and case history would go a long way with me but your assertion that your opinion is nationwide was already proven false by your own example.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> Sense his eyes are apparently open enough to catch these lies and red flags, what the hell is he doing about it?
> Why the hell is he sitting passively by and tolerating this stuff? WTF is wrong with this guy?


He thought she had a shopping/spending problem. Until this Saturday. He now knows he’s going to probably be dealing with a cheating wife.

I felt so bad for him…


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> You have no evidence of judgements or case history so far so you are repeating your opinion with no evidence.
> 
> I'm not unreasonable. Judgements and case history would go a long way with me but your assertion that your opinion is nationwide was already proven false by your own example.


I don't CARE what would go a long way with you. Find it yourself. If it's the cornerstone of your life, pay a law firm to do your research for you.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Agreed. There’s a difference between recognizing and following up on red flags and the suggestion that someone should actively monitor their spouse’s life even when they have no reason to. The OP suggested that men should monitor all of their wives communications and not allow them any privacy “just in case.” That’s not a marriage, it’s a hostage situation. It’s not healthy for either person.


No, I’m not saying that at all. What I’m saying is that the SO ought to start monitoring when he/she notices a change in behavior or a change in texting/call times or after a night out with friends that went past the expected normal time.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just preordered my groceries and went and picked them up and the store told me they were ready for pickup. I still consider that shopping for groceries myself. I think that is really just looking for any tiny thing to validate his fears. Not to mention, she may have actually stopped someplace else for something as well.


I don’t think you understood what I said… She told him she was going to buy the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her 2-3 hours when, in reality, she had already submitted the order online that morning and all she had to do is pick it up. She then proceeded to leave her purse at a locker inside of the Whole Foods and left without her car (she has a Tesla and my friend did track the car).

She didn’t notice her phone was in the purse so… when the Whole Foods representative called her, she didn’t pick up the phone, so they called her home phone number, and that’s where my friend found out she wasn’t at the Whole Foods.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just preordered my groceries and went and picked them up and the store told me they were ready for pickup. I still consider that shopping for groceries myself. I think that is really just looking for any tiny thing to validate his fears. Not to mention, she may have actually stopped someplace else for something as well.


I get what you are saying. Yes she could have. But to specify that's what your doing and it was preordered? Wonder if she came in the door with groceries with her from the same store? It wouldn't matter man or woman. It's still odd and worth asking where she went to be gone so long. That info wasn't given, so it's all conjecture regardless.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

JBLH said:


> I don’t think you understood what I said… She told him she was going to buy the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her 2-3 hours when, in reality, she had already submitted the order online that morning and all she had to do is pick it up. She then proceeded to leave her purse at a locker inside of the Whole Foods and left without her car (she has a Tesla and my friend did track the car).
> 
> She didn’t notice her phone was in the purse so… when the Whole Foods representative called her, she didn’t pick up the phone, so they called her home phone number, and that’s where my friend found out she wasn’t at the Whole Foods.


Why would she leave her purse locked up at Whole Foods, but intend to take her phone? I could see why she would intentionally leave her purse AND phone, in case they have Find My Friends or something. But I struggle to figure out why she would lock up just her purse, then leave.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

JBLH said:


> I don’t think you understood what I said… She told him she was going to buy the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her 2-3 hours when, in reality, she had already submitted the order online that morning and all she had to do is pick it up. She then proceeded to leave her purse at a locker inside of the Whole Foods and left without her car (she has a Tesla and my friend did track the car).
> 
> She didn’t notice her phone was in the purse so… when the Whole Foods representative called her, she didn’t pick up the phone, so they called her home phone number, and that’s where my friend found out she wasn’t at the Whole Foods.


How does he know she left her phone in a locker? Maybe she just didn't hear or answer her phone knowing already it was the store. Maybe she had a bite at the cafe, as many shoppers do. If he already distrusts his wife, it's over anyway. Waste of time spying on her.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Why would she leave her purse locked up at Whole Foods, but intend to take her phone? I could see why she would intentionally leave her purse AND phone, in case they have Find My Friends or something. But I struggle to figure out why she would lock up just her purse, then leave.


Could be. Like I said, I didn’t have the heart to tell him what I suspected happened but… to me, it looked and sounded like she got picked up by someone at the WF and then left for 2-3 hours.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

JBLH said:


> I don’t think you understood what I said… She told him she was going to buy the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her 2-3 hours when, in reality, she had already submitted the order online that morning and all she had to do is pick it up. She then proceeded to leave her purse at a locker inside of the Whole Foods and left without her car (she has a Tesla and my friend did track the car).
> 
> She didn’t notice her phone was in the purse so… when the Whole Foods representative called her, she didn’t pick up the phone, so they called her home phone number, and that’s where my friend found out she wasn’t at the Whole Foods.


While technically circumstantial, I don’t think I’d need any further evidence after this to file.

Unless she’s a secret agent, there’s no plausible explanation for this behavior that isn’t completely damming.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

JBLH said:


> No, I’m not saying that at all. What I’m saying is that the SO ought to start monitoring when he/she notices a change in behavior or a change in texting/call times or after a night out with friends that went past the expected normal time.


Ah ok. Well I misunderstood then. I apologize. I actually agree with some sleuthing for your own peace of mind. Just don’t waste months of your life on someone you don’t love or respect. You both deserve better. Unless she is cheating, then f her. 😉


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

JBLH said:


> Could be. Like I said, I didn’t have the heart to tell him what I suspected happened but… to me, it looked and sounded like she got picked up by someone at the WF and then left for 2-3 hours.


How does he know she left? She didn't have her phone or car to track so... If they talked about it then what was her story for where she was for 3 hours? 

This story isn't adding up.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I'm not interpreting the law at all.


...but you do....and you do....


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> How does he know she left her phone in a locker? Maybe she just didn't hear or answer her phone knowing already it was the store. Maybe she had a bite at the cafe, as many shoppers do. If he already distrusts his wife, it's over anyway. Waste of time spying on her.


So you're advocating nuking a marriage on this amount of information. Got it.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

bobert said:


> How does he know she left? She didn't have her phone or car to track so... If they talked about it then what was her story for where she was for 3 hours?
> 
> This story isn't adding up.


Ok… She said she was going shopping for 3 hours. My friend tracks her Tesla and sees that the car is indeed at the WF’s parking lot. Two hours later, my friend gets a phone call from WF to let her know her order is ready for pickup. My friend checks the Tesla app and the car is still at the WF’s parking lot. He then calls his wife’s phone three times and she does not pick up. He then goes on the iCloud app and checks to see where the phone is and it is located in an area of the store where there are lockers. An hour goes by and his wife finally calls to let him know she’s on the way back. He is pissed off and tells/asks her if she’s been binge-shopping again. She tells him yes but… doesn’t bring anything home.

Capisci?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


Keep in mind, I am speaking as a betrayed person who is literally still trying to put my life back together in the aftermath of a horrific affair.

I will never track, spy, look at phones, follow, or do any “verifying”. If there is red flag behavior it will be there in dating (It has taken me lots of self work and reflection to identify these). And I will never allow myself to be so enmeshed in a person that I won’t let them go if they disrespect me. (See self work above) Boundaries for decent behavior in a relationship should never be tested. If you have a person that does so regularly, the spying, checking, and waiting for the villain in the shadows isn’t going to fix that. 

On the topic of underwear…VS is poorly made and falls apart easily… it’s not even good underwear. So when I read that these women are wearing VS my first thought was, that’s sad, don’t they know that there is quality underwear out there?


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

QuietRiot said:


> I will never track, spy, look at phones, follow, or do any “verifying”. If there is red flag behavior it will be there in dating (It has taken me lots of self work and reflection to identify these). And I will never allow myself to be so enmeshed in a person that I won’t let them go if they disrespect me. (See self work above) Boundaries for decent behavior in a relationship should never be tested. If you have a person that does so regularly, the spying, checking, and waiting for the villain in the shadows isn’t going to fix that.
> 
> On the topic of underwear…VS is poorly made and falls apart easily… it’s not even good underwear. So when I read that these women are wearing VS my first thought was, that’s sad, don’t they know that there is quality underwear out th


Glad that you are wiser now, but most don't go into their first marriage with the same perspective/experience to weed out sketchy partners before starting a family with them.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

OnTheRocks said:


> Glad that you are wiser now, but most don't go into their first marriage with the same perspective/experience to weed out sketchy partners before starting a family with them.


Yes, I was one. If someone believes there is an actual affair happening for good reason beyond “she talks to people with penises and wears bad underwear”, I would say yes. Verify because of shady behavior in certain cases… but to spy on people because of poor boundaries in the relationship or choosing someone who has this type of behavior to begin with? Whole other issue in my opinion. 

One of the women in this story is a girlfriend. He is going to cyberstalk and GPS his girlfriend? No. That’s absolutely wrong on every level. Leave her if you don’t like her underwear and friendships.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Just because she's wearing it does not mean that anyone else is seeing it. A lot of women wear those as their daily underwear.


A woman over the road from us with a Kim Kardasian size bottom wears thongs all the time.

When she bends over she displays her wares for all to see. 😳


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> A woman over the road from us with a Kim Kardasian size bottom wears thongs all the time.
> 
> When she bends over she displays her wares for all to see. 😳


I'm still debating internally whether that's good or bad. I'll have to get back with you on that. 😉


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

OnTheRocks said:


> ....Many people are unwilling to divorce and break up their family, especially with kids involved, without concrete proof. I was definitely one of them myself. *"Just ask them" or "get in marriage counseling" is the advice of someone who has never dealt with infidelity.* The number of cheaters that will confess upon 'just being asked' is infinitesimally small. Also, the number who will continue to lie in the face of irrefutable evidence seems to be amazingly high based on the stories we see around TAM. But, at least the BS *can divorce based on facts if they get proof*, which almost always requires snooping, PI, GPS tracker, and other less-than-forthright means.


Most states now have no-fault divorce laws, so proof is no longer generally required to obtain a divorce. 

My advice to seek marriage counseling would be only if you don't want to divorce your SO. A lot of people even with solid proof, decide they would rather work at reconciliation that divorce and that is their choice.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Could be. Like I said, I didn’t have the heart to tell him what I suspected happened but… to me, it looked and sounded like she got picked up by someone at the WF and then left for 2-3 hours.


Because that’s what you would think. You’re planting paranoid thought in peoples heads because misery loves company. You said there’s another party coming up to talk about this more.


JBLH said:


> Ok… She said she was going shopping for 3 hours. My friend tracks her Tesla and sees that the car is indeed at the WF’s parking lot. Two hours later, my friend gets a phone call from WF to let her know her order is ready for pickup. My friend checks the Tesla app and the car is still at the WF’s parking lot. He then calls his wife’s phone three times and she does not pick up. He then goes on the iCloud app and checks to see where the phone is and it is located in an area of the store where there are lockers. An hour goes by and his wife finally calls to let him know she’s on the way back. He is pissed off and tells/asks her if she’s been binge-shopping again. She tells him yes but… doesn’t bring anything home.
> 
> Capisci?


why did you bury all this until now? Why not lead with it? Weird.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> Keep in mind, I am speaking as a betrayed person who is literally still trying to put my life back together in the aftermath of a horrific affair.


Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. 



> I will never track, spy, look at phones, follow, or do any “verifying”. If there is red flag behavior it will be there in dating (It has taken me lots of self work and reflection to identify these). And I will never allow myself to be so enmeshed in a person that I won’t let them go if they disrespect me. (See self work above) Boundaries for decent behavior in a relationship should never be tested. If you have a person that does so regularly, the spying, checking, and waiting for the villain in the shadows isn’t going to fix that.


Ok, moral grandstanding aside, you are very well aware of how circumstantial adultery is. You already know that your SO can cheat on you even if her/his credentials are impeccable right? What I am saying is that ANYONE who suspects their SO is either 1) acting suspiciously (behavioral changes) or 2) went on a GNO the night before and went past the time they were supposed to be back or 3) all of a sudden spends more time with friends or 4) all of a sudden talks about a particular coworker of the opposite sex or 5) you catch him/her lying or 6) he/she is secretive... WHATCH OUT! That's all. It doesn't hurt to monitor early so that you can end things early if need be. 



> On the topic of underwear…VS is poorly made and falls apart easily… it’s not even good underwear. So when I read that these women are wearing VS my first thought was, that’s sad, don’t they know that there is quality underwear out there?


Dude, all I'm saying is that wearing Victoria Secrets thongs to work, while she wears regular underwear at home is, *at the very least*, suspicious.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Because that’s what you would think. You’re planting paranoid thought in peoples heads because misery loves company. You said there’s another party coming up to talk about this more.


OMG. Did you NOT read my comment about me not wanting to tell him what most likely happened? What you are saying did not happen. My friend told me that this is what happened. I did not tell my friend what most likely happened, even though I wanted to. 



> why did you bury all this until now? Why not lead with it? Weird.


What do you mean by "bury"? What I said from the beginning is easily understandable. There's nothing "weird" about it other than you not being able to read at a certain level.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

JBLH said:


> What I said from the beginning is easily understandable


Yes it was.

The additional details added color and depth to the story but didn't change the OP as far as I'm concerned.

Red flags worthy of increase monitoring is my thought as well. It's good to be there for your friends, in the same way TAM would be there for people who would bring this story. In fact your friend may show up here


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

It’s unfortunate that OP left out some details that may have prevented much unnecessary back and forth arguing that makes these threads way too long. Especially the part about her not wearing the VS thongs when not at work, and the whole grocery store “pre ordering, car in lot, phone and purse in locker for several hours” event.

Legitimate red flags. Question to those defending her, are your views any different? Should he not invade her privacy by monitoring, and just ask her about the behaviour? Or just divorce if he doesn’t trust her?


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

JBLH said:


> OMG. Did you NOT read my comment about me not wanting to tell him what most likely happened? What you are saying did not happen. My friend told me that this is what happened. I did not tell my friend what most likely happened, even though I wanted to.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "bury"? What I said from the beginning is easily understandable. There's nothing "weird" about it other than you not being able to read at a certain level.


Yes, easily understandable but you left out important details.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

manwithnoname said:


> Yes, easily understandable but you left out important details.


This is true of many posters here. Details are important, no doubt.

In OP's case, as with many others, one can infer that if wearing VS things (for example) is a point worth mentioning by the (potential) BS, then it must be a deviation of normal behavior. That might be true or might not.

So my point is that we react on what we believe is being said. And when challenged with another viewpoint, we fight to defend our viewpoint instead of going back to clarify facts and get details. That's bad behavior by TAM posters... assuming you know everything, you are right, and are willing to fight about it.

People need to chill and stop being self-righteous.
Of course...I'm being self-righteous in saying that 🤣


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Agreed. There’s a difference between recognizing and following up on red flags and the suggestion that someone should actively monitor their spouse’s life even when they have no reason to. The OP suggested that men should monitor all of their wives communications and not allow them any privacy “just in case.” That’s not a marriage, it’s a hostage situation. It’s not healthy for either person.


I think this is where the divide is coming from in this thread. I'm going to somewhat generalize here so please forgive me. They women are thinking the men are saying these things should always be monitored and wives can't be trusted to the point that their underwear choice is a tell as to whether they are faithful or not regardless of any other circumstances. The men are hearing the women say that if you ever investigate those things you have no trust and you might as well end the marriage now. I don't actually think that is what either "side" is saying. 

I think everyone would agree with this: 

If you feel like you need to monitor your spouse's every move just for the sake of monitoring them you have an issue yourself. You don't have much of a marriage if it is so devoid of trust that you are always investigating them. At the same time you need to have enough awareness to recognize "red flags", which really is mostly major changes in behavior. That would warrant looking at some or all of those things listed in the OP.

I wouldn't be monitoring all those things in the OP just for the sake of monitoring them. However, if my wife suddenly started wearing thongs to work that she's never really worn before and started an immediate post work shower routine, or any other non-typical behavior I would start investigating those things for at least some period of time, and if the circumstances seem appropriate I would talk to her about it after investigating.

Many of us seem to jump to conclusions and read into what others have said, or not said. As with many posts not all the details are in the OP. Has she always worn thongs everywhere or is it new behavior? What does she talk about with coworkers, is it all work or is it social? Has she started protecting her phone like it contains national secrets since she started talking to these people? Has she always taken a shower right after work?

What it all comes down to is walking the line of trusting without being naïve and gullible, while also being cognizant of the condition and the boundaries in your marriage.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> None of that is anything out of the ordinary.


Lying about her whereabouts is not out of the ordinary? lol So you know she is a chronic liar?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm curious about @MattMatt 's neighborhood now....😋


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

JBLH said:


> Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you read the topic of your post by chance? Just in case. You want people to monitor their spouse and girlfriends…. Just in case.

This is not moral grandstanding, it just isn’t paranoid insecurity. If I were speaking from a place where I hadn’t in fact been cheated on, that might be a valid point. I’ve now mooted it.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> Most states now have no-fault divorce laws, so proof is no longer generally required to obtain a divorce.
> 
> My advice to seek marriage counseling would be only if you don't want to divorce your SO. A lot of people even with solid proof, decide they would rather work at reconciliation that divorce and that is their choice.


I am not saying evidence will do any good in court in most States / situations; it's for peace of mind. I am very glad I was able to get proof. Otherwise, I'd have spent the next few years thinking I had just failed at making her haaaaapy, which was what she wanted everyone to think. LOL


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

bobert said:


> It sounds like a story that wasn't thought through well enough before posting.


Yes, lets lead with underwear and friends at work and “just in case” stalking tips… not that there is already GPS stalking and grocery store lockers and unaccounted for time. Writing and imagination get a D- for content.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

OnTheRocks said:


> So you're advocating nuking a marriage on this amount of information. Got it.


I would submit that not trusting your spouse is enough reason to "nuke" the marriage. I know if I were married to someone and had to stalk them and track them and constantly question everything they said because I didn't trust them, I would find that exhausting and miserable. If I discovered I had been low-jacked by my husband, I would just divorce because being married to someone you can't trust is miserable and he deserves better. I totally understand getting proof for your peace of mind, but at that point, even if you discovered it was nothing, the trust is destroyed and there will forever be a "next time." I guess some people are ok being in a marriage like that, but for me personally, that sounds awful. I wouldn't want someone I cared about to stay in a marriage like that. 🤷‍♀️


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I would submit that not trusting your spouse is enough reason to "nuke" the marriage. I know if I were married to someone and had to stalk them and track them and constantly question everything they said because I didn't trust them, I would find that exhausting and miserable. If I discovered I had been low-jacked by my husband, I would just divorce because being married to someone you can't trust is miserable and he deserves better. I totally understand getting proof for your peace of mind, but at that point, even if you discovered it was nothing, the trust is destroyed and there will forever be a "next time." I guess some people are ok being in a marriage like that, but for me personally, that sounds awful. I wouldn't want someone I cared about to stay in a marriage like that. 🤷‍♀️


There are some cheaters that give no outward indications, they don’t behave any differently. Many of us have even thought this when first finding out. “I never thought they could do this!” There are those few people that simply go off the rails for a day, a season or forever and decide they are going to cheat. I understand why this thought terrifies people and makes them jumpy. But if you have self respect and strong boundaries… it’s not as likely to happen and that’s all you can do.

I do not believe there is any prophylactic for this, but we can control what we tolerate and our consequences for disrespect. And let’s be honest, many, many betrayed spouses did have precursor red flags before the cheating actually happened. (I will venture as far as to say most) Not all selfish and entitled people with poor boundaries cheat, but why be in a relationship with those types, or tolerate that disrespect even years in? I don’t think it’s ever too late to fix oneself in that regard and demand better. I don’t think it’s healthy to “chase” the borderline sketchy behaviors with snooping instead of hard boundaries.

At the same time, if there really is suspect activity and behavior going on and someone does believe their spouse is cheating… of course they need to have the proof. But most “proof” is going to be explained away or gaslighted, so you really have to know the reason you’re trying to get it and what is enough to make your decisions based off of. For me, at this juncture of my life… no proof needed, simply enough shady behavior to consider the person a bad fit. 

But there I go with my moral grandstanding.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> You can’t stop a cheater. Being a marriage warden IMO isn’t worth it.
> With that said if your spouse doesn’t have good boundaries it’s a losing battle.
> Any married couple should read ‘Not Just Friends’ by glass.


What's that about?


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


Uh... I wear thongs. Sometimes granny panties. Sometimes cute silky things with flowers. Sometimes nothing at all. To work. This does not mean that I am not faithful to my husband. What is this woman's line of work? I go to the gym when I'm done at work so when I get home, I take a shower because I'm not trying to have my husband smell my nasties from working out. Good hygiene is not bad. I would shoot you, if you were my husbands friend - putting dirty worms in his ear just because you had a bad time with your previous relationship and I am sorry for that but playing babysitter and detective is never the way to go.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

JBLH said:


> A Victoria Secrets’ thong?
> 
> No.
> 
> Only the husband is supposed to see that.


So I can show men my thongs from Knotty Knickers then? It's not VS. 

Your point is not valid, sir. How about a woman should not be exposing herself to any man that isn't her husband period. Whether she's wearing thongs from Victoria's Secret or granny panties from Goodwill


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Uh... I wear thongs. Sometimes granny panties. Sometimes cute silky things with flowers. Sometimes nothing at all. To work. This does not mean that I am not faithful to my husband. What is this woman's line of work? I go to the gym when I'm done at work so when I get home, I take a shower because I'm not trying to have my husband smell my nasties from working out. Good hygiene is not bad. I would shoot you, if you were my husbands friend - putting dirty worms in his ear just because you had a bad time with your previous relationship and I am sorry for that but playing babysitter and detective is never the way to go.


A very key difference between you and the aforementioned woman is you haven't had any changes in your behavior and wear the same or better for your husband.

The aforementioned lady was acting differently in her behavior and not wearing the sexy stuff for her husband.

You are missing it here.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> A very key difference between you and the aforementioned woman is you haven't had any changes in your behavior and wear the same or better for your husband.
> 
> The aforementioned lady was acting differently in her behavior and not wearing the sexy stuff for her husband.
> 
> You are missing it here.


I am. I will read through everything else later - very busy day today at work. Thank you for filling me in.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> I am. I will read through everything else later - very busy day today at work. Thank you for filling me in.


And no, she wasn’t going to the gym prior to entering the home and heading straight for the shower.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

snowbum said:


> Because that’s what you would think. You’re planting paranoid thought in peoples heads because misery loves company. You said there’s another party coming up to talk about this more.
> 
> why did you bury all this until now? Why not lead with it? Weird.


Because it's either a big nothing burger OR the story is being created as we speak.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Because that’s what you would think. You’re planting paranoid thought in peoples heads because misery loves company. You said there’s another party coming up to talk about this more.
> 
> why did you bury all this until now? Why not lead with it? Weird.


Perhaps in the beginning he was going for a more general discussion about monitoring your wife’s communications and behavior. I don’t think the resistance he encountered was expected, perhaps he thought redirecting it to a specific situation would soften the criticism and bring the conversation in the direction he wanted. 🤷‍♀️


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Nope, I'm saying don't jump to conclusions and accuse this woman of cheating when we don't know enough to make that call.


Exactly. Plus the story is added to at the author's convenience. So far, it's one big nothing burger.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Exactly. Plus the story is added to at the author's convenience. So far, it's one big nothing burger.


I’m kinda laughing at the idea that VS underwear is 1. Nice underwear and 2. Magically turns faithful wives into hose beasts sniffing around for dong like pigs after truffles🐷. The visuals I’m making up in my head are hilarious. Not to mention that the actual point of thong underwear is to avoid panty lines, something you want to do at work.

If the OP’s evolving story is true, the wife’s behavior is extremely fishy. If the H needs proof to believe it, I get that, we don’t want to believe someone we thought we loved is really a horrible person.

However, I still think a marriage where one spouse has to constantly play cop is miserable for everyone.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m kinda laughing at the idea that VS underwear is 1. Nice underwear and 2. Magically turns faithful wives into hose beasts sniffing around for dong like pigs after truffles. The visuals in my head are hilarious. Not to mention that the actual point of thong underwear is to avoid panty lines, something you want to do at work.


I often laugh at made up stories like the story you are making up right now as well.😉


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Yea, these thongs sold by Victoria's secret are super dupper sex wear.  They look just like thongs sold at Walmart, but since they have the name Victoria secret on the label, they are sex wear, right? I know quite a few women who buy all their under garments of VS and lot of it is not "sex wear".
> View attachment 91207
> 
> 
> Who says a woman is wearing it for anyone else? She might just be wearing it for herself because she likes it.



I agree with you. I never understood VS to be a "sex clothing" manufacturer. They are a women's undergarment, lingerie and sleepwear company. Several of my female friends, who are not married, all love VS because the company makes very high quality clothing. One of my lady friends wears only VS bras because she says they last 3x as long as other bras she has worn in the past AND they are beautiful. I have seen her in them, have taken them off of her many times, and I agree VS makes nice stuff. 

Now... Adam and Eve? THAT is sex clothing.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

JBLH I think you are trying to do good by your friend, and I agree there is some suspicious red flag behavior going on with the wife, but have you sat down with your friend and talked with him about other ways of gathering info such as maybe hiring a P.I., checking her e-mail or text history, or installing a VAR in her car? Right now his evidence is flimsy and he is nowhere ready to confront her.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

[


TexasMom1216 said:


> However, I still think a marriage where one spouse has to constantly play cop is miserable for everyone.


Not constantly, just until they gather enough evidence to either divorce, have a discussion about boundaries, rugsweep etc.


----------



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Exactly. Plus the story is added to at the author's convenience. So far, it's one big nothing burger.


Nothing burger sounds like no calories and no flavour. We’ll have to wait and see what garnishes have been added.


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## Nico_Jacobs (4 mo ago)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


I understand your point of view but definitely disagree with monitoring. As hard as it can be to trust people after you’ve been deceived, it is a necessary part of a healthy relationship. Ultimately you have to choose whether to trust or not and if you have to say, “I do BUT”, then you probably need to move on. Other options like telling them how insecure you are and explaining the reason can go a long way. If they love you, then they will understand your insecurities and work to make you feel more secure without compromising their own happiness. Either way, monitoring a SO is not healthy and will not allow a relationship to grow.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Lots of women wear thongs?  Is it the brand that is causing concern here? Also, I don't think that "monitoring" your wife just in case she is a cheater is a good basis for a good marriage.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is why I would never date a person who had been traumatized by a cheating partner. I feel like when you've been burned like that you are going to be expecting it and will be constantly suspicious and I feel like that would get really old really fast.


It is difficult for a few years, had to say a few times, "I am not your damned cheating ex!" And for her to get it, that Not all men are so weak minded that they can not say no to another woman, we are not moths to a flame. Some men have moral integrity, some do not.

It is nice however, to have reassurance in the fact that my spouse is as adverse to cheating as I am. I am now the only person she trust completely and without reservation.


----------



## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Lots of women wear thongs?


Yes, lots of women wear thongs.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Lots of women wear thongs?  Is it the brand that is causing concern here? Also, I don't think that "monitoring" your wife just in case she is a cheater is a good basis for a good marriage.


Had an ex that that is all she wore. Did not have a problem there, it was that she had a F-Buddy back home. As a guy that was looking for LTR, I could not get my head around someone being so emotionally shallow to be able to do that. Major red flag for me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Benbutton said:


> Yes, lots of women wear thongs.


It was a rhetorical question... I know that lots of women wear thongs... Hence my surprise that people think it's a sign of cheating


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> Had an ex that that is all she wore. Did not have a problem there, it was that she had a F-Buddy back home. As a guy that was looking for LTR, I could not get my head around someone being so emotionally shallow to be able to do that. Major red flag for me.


A pair of tongs wouldn't be a problem.. a F-buddy, maybe yes... lol


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Perhaps in the beginning he was going for a more general discussion about monitoring your wife’s communications and behavior. I don’t think the resistance he encountered was expected, perhaps he thought redirecting it to a specific situation would soften the criticism and bring the conversation in the direction he wanted. 🤷‍♀️


Maybe he was trying to get us to side with him because he feels that this is something that his own wife is doing but he doesn't want to fess up to it? Why come here for advice if you can't be honest. I straight up through myself under the bus in my very first post because transparency is needed, if you want to fix what MIGHT be on its way to being broken.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Maybe he was trying to get us to side with him because he feels that this is something that his own wife is doing but he doesn't want to fess up to it? Why come here for advice if you can't be honest. I straight up through myself under the bus in my very first post because transparency is needed, if you want to fix what MIGHT be on its way to being broken.


I suspect it’s something he does to his wife. He’s been betrayed and doesn’t believe any woman can be trusted.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Lots of women wear thongs?  Is it the brand that is causing concern here? Also, I don't think that "monitoring" your wife just in case she is a cheater is a good basis for a good marriage.


My wife wears them to church and whenever she is wearing clothes she doesn’t want a “panty line” to show. What she wears is her business. She doesn't patronize VS cuz she thinks what they sell is “high priced trashy” to quote her.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Nico_Jacobs said:


> I understand your point of view but definitely disagree with monitoring. As hard as it can be to trust people after you’ve been deceived, it is a necessary part of a healthy relationship. Ultimately you have to choose whether to trust or not and if you have to say, “I do BUT”, then you probably need to move on. Other options like telling them how insecure you are and explaining the reason can go a long way. If they love you, then they will understand your insecurities and work to make you feel more secure without compromising their own happiness. Either way, monitoring a SO is not healthy and will not allow a relationship to grow.


I’m not saying to monitor them without there being a trigger. What I am saying is that if your SO is contacting coworkers after work, she/seem distant and look preoccupied with something to then, and only then, start monitoring.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> It was a rhetorical question... I know that lots of women wear thongs... Hence my surprise that people think it's a sign of cheating


That’s not what I said. At all.

I said it IS an issue when she wears the Victoria Secrets thongs to work but the grannie panties at home.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

It’s always the two or three characters taking things out of context. The are obvious reading comprehension red flags everywhere but… the piling on and on and on is hilarious.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> It was a rhetorical question... I know that lots of women wear thongs... Hence my surprise that people think it's a sign of cheating


Yeah I think the whole thongs discussion has been beat to death.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> That’s not what I said. At all.


That's what you said in your original post.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> It’s always the two or three characters taking things out of context. The are obvious reading comprehension red flags everywhere but… the piling on and on and on is hilarious.


I can read and comprehend, if you are referring to me. This is the usual thread originated by triggered people who have been cheated on and see cheaters and red flags everywhere.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> It was a rhetorical question... I know that lots of women wear thongs... Hence my surprise that people think it's a sign of cheating


Sigh. The lying about whereabouts and only wearing VS thong for work and not husband should alleviate your surprise because just a woman owning a VS thong was not part of the OP or any indicator of suspicion.

If you were paying attention, you wouldn't be surprised because you are referencing a fabricated narrative.

Reading comprehension really does come into play.

If you could quote the OP, specifically where you found that any owner of a thong was suspected of cheating, I will heartily jump on board with you.

Otherwise, you are just wasting time because you are pushing an idea that certainly wasn't being discussed.

Can you show me in the OP what you are talking about and where it was mentioned that any woman with a thong is displaying signs of cheating?

It would help if you did that.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

JBLH said:


> I basically told them that they ought to monitor their SO even if all is ok.


This here is the sentence some are focused on, whereas the rest of your post covers a friend's wife and some suspicious circumstances. 

IMHO, I would not ever suggest monitoring your SO's behavior if everything is OK, because really, it's just looking for things that aren't there. Why cause a problem when one doesn't exist? It just makes no sense. 

Now, with that being said, the meat of your post discusses a friend of yours, whose wife is exhibiting some concerning red flags. Putting the two together in one post creates opposing opinions over two different subjects. I can understand why both sides have very different views regarding your initial post, because normal people don't monitor their spouse if everything is OK, and most normal people would probably offer similar advice to a friend whose spouse was behaving suspiciously. Using your friends circumstances are quite different than monitoring even if everything is OK.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> That's what you said in your original post.


This does display terrible reading comprehension on your part.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> people think it's a sign of cheating


They don't actually. This is made up.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm not for monitoring myself unless there is some serious gaslighting going on and I need to be sure to make a decision.

A partner who is behaving weird will get talked to about the behavior. If I don't like being blown off or said weird behavior persists, I know where the door is.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

"Trust" and "verify" are mutually exclusive. Reagan assumed people who heard the comment would understand that. That being said, I don't think I trust anyone. Completely.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ElOtro said:


> I´ve never, not once in my life, took a look on the private communication of a woman at my side and never would.
> I´ve never, not once in my life, voiced my oppinion on how a woman at my side choosed to dress, exception made when explicitely asked for or to compliment her.
> This as part of a wider respect for her own choices.
> Even so that focus on individuality, her´s.
> ...


I like your Greek style of prose.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ArthurGPym said:


> I agree with you. I never understood VS to be a "sex clothing" manufacturer. They are a women's undergarment, lingerie and sleepwear company. Several of my female friends, who are not married, all love VS because the company makes very high quality clothing. One of my lady friends wears only VS bras because she says they last 3x as long as other bras she has worn in the past AND they are beautiful. I have seen her in them, have taken them off of her many times, and I agree VS makes nice stuff.
> 
> Now... Adam and Eve? THAT is sex clothing.


My wife will soon be wearing only teddies, thigh high stockings and heels and the like to work. 

She does however work from home, on the phone/computer. When son leaves for college, she is gonna wear a teddy or bustier with thigh highs and her heels while working, to torment me on breaks and just knowing she is in our bedroom dressed that way will make me go insane. We both work from home. My office is in spare room.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> It was a rhetorical question... I know that lots of women wear thongs... Hence my surprise that people think it's a sign of cheating


C’mon it should at least raise some eyebrows. Although I don’t know which is worse. Is it a woman who wears thongs, or a woman who wears sandals? And what if she goes barefoot?


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## Hurthusband77 (May 9, 2021)

Isn’t one of the things to watch for when someone suspects infidelity, new sexy underwear that isn’t worn when at home? On its own, it doesn’t really mean anything, but I’ve read so many stories citing underwear as one of the things that tipped off a BS to an affair.

I agree that being a marriage warden isn’t a recipe for success in a marriage, but damn, I wish I had found TAM or other relationship boards long ago. I would have taken action had I known what to be suspicious about. However, a BS will see infidelity everywhere after finding out your partner has betrayed you.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I like your Greek style of prose.


Thank you.
English is not my mother language and neither the one mainly spoken around here.
So another language may be present in the way I structure my posts.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> This does display terrible reading comprehension on your part.


In his original post, he mentioned a wife going to work wearing Victoria Secret's thongs and that it was a read flag, for possible cheating. Is this not correct? Because if he meant something else, then, yes, I'm dense.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> They don't actually. This is made up.


I was talking about "people" in general, not here. I don't think people in general consider wearing thongs a sign of a potential cheater. If you don't think so about general people, then your opinion is as valid as mine.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> C’mon it should at least raise some eyebrows. Although I don’t know which is worse. Is it a woman who wears thongs, or a woman who wears sandals? And what if she goes barefoot?


I dislike thongs. Horrible thing thongs...


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> If you could quote the OP, specifically where you found that any owner of a thong was suspected of cheating, I will heartily jump on board with you.


It's a red flag, implying it's a sign of potential cheating. You don't see this? Maybe I should have said what I said now? It was very clear to me. I'm surprise you don't read that in the post. 

Also, I would appreciate it if you didn't drag the conversation to a personal level all the time, because I very much dislike it and it's getting very tiresome. Thank you.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Respectfully, I just want to clarify. The TITLE included the words JUST IN CASE. The two behaviors given for a friends wife and another friends girlfriend were “wearing VS and having male coworker friends” and no further details except his wife’s affair came out of nowhere which riled his friends up a great deal (if you read the thread and believe it, his wife’s affair did not come out of nowhere she exhibited glaringly obvious behaviors). The underwear and coworker details as mentioned in that post, could easily mean looking for things where nothing exists. The story was then expounded to include far more devious things later. Which isn’t “JUST IN CASE”, and the woman as obviously ALREADY being monitored by GPS so what, we needed to figure out more and better ways to spy? Nobody is going to touch on the creepiness of stalking girlfriends now either?

Let’s be even more clear, any and every behavior including “being nicer to your spouse” and “having more sex” can be a red flag for cheating. Also, tracking people, monitoring their texts and accusing them of inappropriate behavior and cheating… is a sign of cheating too!! So maybe these women will then decide these guys are the ones cheating on them and the stalking can be returned in kind or just do the thing people with balls do (I’m not one of those) and kick their butts to the curb. Who knows what that behavior could cause.

I don’t think the intent of this thread was created for blaring red flags and gut instincts, I think it was created and worded for things that paranoid people could see everywhere and to monitor JUST IN CASE. And believe me, if you’re actively looking for cheating behaviors…you will indeed find them whether there is cheating or not. I’ve been accused of cheating (by the cheater) more times than I can count. It doesn’t feel great.

Anyways. I’ll back off the thread, it seems to be instigating some tension amongst people and I don’t like to see good people go at each other like this.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

/\ This.


----------



## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> That's what you said in your original post.


Did you read any of my comments after that?

Too much reading right?


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Benbutton said:


> This here is the sentence some are focused on, whereas the rest of your post covers a friend's wife and some suspicious circumstances.
> 
> IMHO, I would not ever suggest monitoring your SO's behavior if everything is OK, because really, it's just looking for things that aren't there. Why cause a problem when one doesn't exist? It just makes no sense.
> 
> Now, with that being said, the meat of your post discusses a friend of yours, whose wife is exhibiting some concerning red flags. Putting the two together in one post creates opposing opinions over two different subjects. I can understand why both sides have very different views regarding your initial post, because normal people don't monitor their spouse if everything is OK, and most normal people would probably offer similar advice to a friend whose spouse was behaving suspiciously. Using your friends circumstances are quite different than monitoring even if everything is OK.


Again, did you read any of my comments after the original post?


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

JBLH said:


> Well, supposedly he’s caught her lying before. According to him she would tell him that she was going to the local Whole Foods to get the groceries for the week and that it was going to take her “a while.” All of a sudden HE would get a phone call from the Whole Foods to let him know that his order was ready for pickup (meaning she was somewhere else). Or that she was going to TJ Max to get an article of clothing he’d already seen hidden in the back of the closet.
> 
> The main issue is that us guys NEVER talk about this kind of stuff. He’s most likely too late as is, although I didn’t have the heart to tell him. He’s going to have a fire pit get together soon, so I’ll know if he took my advise and, if so, if he found out his wife is cheating on him. Once I know that I’ll let him know what to do next (shut up and hit the record button so he can get a much better divorce outcome).


ummmm...these lies are not good.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> Did you read any of my comments after that?
> 
> Too much reading right?


I was commenting on your first post. I did read the rest. Doesn’t change the basics. You don’t need to be rude about it.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

JBLH said:


> Again, did you read any of my comments after the original post?


I did. I'm not arguing with you, just an observation.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ElOtro said:


> Thank you.
> English is not my mother language and neither the one mainly spoken around here.
> So another language may be present in the way I structure my posts.


I have discovered the sentence structure of Greek and Spanish language is similar. May be same for Portuguese and other Med. countries. Also similar to early English structure, look at the US Bill of Rights and Constitution. Same general structure.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> In his original post, he mentioned a wife going to work wearing Victoria Secret's thongs and that it was a read flag, for possible cheating. Is this not correct? Because if he meant something else, then, yes, I'm dense.


Yes it is partially correct, but in fairness he mentioned a few other things that contributed to more than just the VS panties. Then further into the thread there were a few more things that were mentioned. I took it as a totality of the circumstances, not about just one thing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Benbutton said:


> Yes it is partially correct, but in fairness he mentioned a few other things that contributed to more than just the VS panties. Then further into the thread there were a few more things that were mentioned. I took it as a totality of the circumstances, not about just one thing.


And you really believe that? Have you read his other threads? I’m out. This is a total waste of time.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> I have discovered the sentence structure of Greek and Spanish language is similar. May be same for Portuguese and other Med. countries. Also similar to early English structure, look at the US Bill of Rights and Constitution. Same general structure.


True.
Those are called families of language.
All the ones with origins in Latin (but with deeper and older common roots before Roman empire).
Same as happens with the branches of the German idiomatic family, includding English. 
And of course, as other traces of human cultural evolution along time and worldwide.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Yes, you did good by warning them.
But… they won’t see what they don’t want to see.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Ok, this really got off a bit, especially the late bitsof info. Should we monitor our SO? NO. Only if there is definitely something out of the realms of normal social behavior. Underwater alone don't justify that.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Sfort said:


> "Trust" and "verify" are mutually exclusive. Reagan assumed people who heard the comment would understand that. That being said, I don't think I trust anyone. Completely.


How about Inspect what you Expect, as an old boss used to say.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> And you really believe that? Have you read his other threads? I’m out. This is a total waste of time.


I have no choice, it's what he wrote, and no I haven't so I'm not sure why you are so butthurt.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I’m out. This is a total waste of time.


1. Good.
2. You are correct, it is. It's also a waste of time trudging through some posters misinformation and misinterpretation of the law, as well as this thread.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> I am now the only person she trust completely and without reservation.


This is unwise. Never trust anyone 100%, even yourself.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Benbutton said:


> I did. I'm not arguing with you, just an observation.


Ok so... had you read the subsequent posts you would've realized I further clarified my point by saying that the monitoring ought to start when her/his behavior changes, after they go out on a GNO/BNO and come back at a much later time without giving notice or after finding out they have lied about their whereabouts.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Benbutton said:


> I have no choice, it's what he wrote, and no I haven't so I'm not sure why you are so butthurt.


He was a bit rude in his tone when he replied to me. I like manners...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> Ok so... had you read the subsequent posts you would've realized I further clarified my point by saying that the monitoring ought to start when her/his behavior changes, after they go out on a GNO/BNO and come back at a much later time without giving notice or after finding out they have lied about their whereabouts.


I personally was replying to your first post. Yes, you did change your story after. Fair enough.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> Please, leave.


Nope! You are not allowed to say that on TAM. You are braking the rules.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I personally was replying to your first post. Yes, you did change your story after. Fair enough.


You must be one difficult human being in real life...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> You must be one difficult human being in real life...


Lol... yes, I'm on my own now. Maybe there is a reason. I will leave you alone now...


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Lol... yes, I'm on my own now. Maybe there is a reason. I will leave you alone now...


If you only concentrated on the thread and not on me...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

JBLH said:


> If you only concentrated on the thread and not on me...


I have no idea what you mean, but I'll leave you to your thread. Enjoy!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

OnTheRocks said:


> This is unwise. Never trust anyone 100%, even yourself.


Not trust yourself? That is seriously low moral integrity if you can't even trust yourself not to commit adultery. Me becoming a serial killer is more likely, that me committing adultry.


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## Savannah01 (Sep 8, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> You can’t stop a cheater. Being a marriage warden IMO isn’t worth it.
> With that said if your spouse doesn’t have good boundaries it’s a losing battle.
> Any married couple should read ‘Not Just Friends’ by glass.


I agree 100% if boundaries are not there and are not followed it doesn’t matter how much policing you will be doing, they will find a way you just won’t know about it
I think that from the beginning boundaries have to be said personally I made a mistake not to give a specific outline of the boundaries that ought to be there because you know you assume these are common knowledge for most but no they are not so please be aware of boundaries let your other person know so that it is clear and there is no confusion, just my opinion


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Savannah01 said:


> I agree 100% if boundaries are not there and are not followed it doesn’t matter how much policing you will be doing, they will find a way you just won’t know about it
> I think that from the beginning boundaries have to be said personally I made a mistake not to give a specific outline of the boundaries that ought to be there because you know you assume these are common knowledge for most but no they are not so please be aware of boundaries let your other person know so that it is clear and there is no confusion, just my opinion


Anyone with half a brain knows what it takes to have a safe marriage. If you have to tell them what their boundaries need to be you probably shouldn’t have married them in the first place.


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## goldenCouple (Sep 1, 2020)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


Your use of "SO" is not listed in https://*www.merriam-webster.com*/dictionary


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> Not trust yourself? That is seriously low moral integrity if you can't even trust yourself not to commit adultery. Me becoming a serial killer is more likely, that me committing adultry.


In other words, "check yourself". Is that better? 

You're more likely to become a serial killer than cheat on your partner? Is that supposed to be a good thing? LOL


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## Jimhardc (Oct 16, 2014)

JBLH said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing).
> 
> ...


So wearing VS thong to work is nothing to jump to conclusions about! Now if she only wears VS thongs when going out or when it’s date night (she’s trying to be sexy for significant other) and is all the sudden wearing to work Then worry and start investigating. My wife only wears VS Thongs and Bra‘s but that is everyday but that is her preference in being comfortable. 
If she is showering as soon as getting home huge red flag if she don’t do it everytime she goes out.
the lies just add to all his other problems and she needs to be his ex wife!


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## Blessedgirl13 (7 mo ago)

JBLH said:


> Hi all! Had a guys-night-out last night with 3 friends. Two of them are single and the other one is married. All were very concerned about my divorce and how it basically came “out of nowhere.” Although I wanted to spend ZERO time talking about it, they kept asking questions about the circumstances so I basically told them everything. What was really revealing is that one of the single guys and the married dude have a girlfriend/wife that is in constant contact with coworkers of the opposite sex. The married dude even mentioned that sometimes his wife comes home and heads straight for the shower (he says she blames COVID-LOL) and goes to work wearing Victoria Secrets’ thongs. In a nutshell, I saw red flags everywhere. So, being that they are my friends and I do not want them to go through the same sh-t I did, I gave them a guideline as to what to do (obviously told them to check out TAM so that they could see I wan’t bluffing). I basically told them that they ought to monitor their SO even if all is ok. I suggested they monitor their 1) texting/calls, 2) their internet activity (facebook+instagram included), 3) their social interactions, 4) their traveling and 5) their nights out. I also told them to do this right after their nights out or after they noticed a subtle change in behavior or if they see their SO deleting texts. Was I out of line? Did I miss anything? Doing some preventive monitoring isn’t going to kill their SO.


 Nope not out of line at all. If there’s nothing to find there’s nothing to worry about !


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

OnTheRocks said:


> In other words, "check yourself". Is that better?
> 
> You're more likely to become a serial killer than cheat on your partner? Is that supposed to be a good thing? LOL


What can I say, I shows that I really, really don't like adultry.


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## Peanutbutter (Jul 21, 2011)

WOW so much analysis over a woman's choice to wear a thong, yikes!
I have no idea if this guy's wife is cheating on him or not BUT wearing nice underwear being seen as a sign of cheating is.just.bizarre!! I love wearing pretty lingerie/clothes because it makes me happy not because I am cheating on my husband??? Do you honestly think the entire industry of sexy lingerie is based on women buying them for the sole purpose of us wanting to dress sexy for men?! No 🙄
Also, my husband sometimes dresses extra nice for work, should I be seeing this as a sign that he is cheating on me? Or maybe he just feels like dressing up some days and I should let the poor man be? 
Women wear thongs for a bunch of reasons - no visible panty line under tight pants/skirts being one of them which is why someone might wear a thong to the office/outings but not wear them at home. 
Micromanaging your partners' activities to that extent doesn't sound healthy for either person IMO, if you think your partner is cheating isn't it better to just talk to them about it? If they lie and you're sure they are lying then maybe it's better to do whatever is needed to end that relationship. What is the point of living in misery & stress every single day?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Peanutbutter said:


> WOW so much analysis over a woman's choice to wear a thong, yikes!
> I have no idea if this guy's wife is cheating on him or not BUT wearing nice underwear being seen as a sign of cheating is.just.bizarre!! I love wearing pretty lingerie/clothes because it makes me happy not because I am cheating on my husband??? Do you honestly think the entire industry of sexy lingerie is based on women buying them for the sole purpose of us wanting to dress sexy for men?! No 🙄
> Also, my husband sometimes dresses extra nice for work, should I be seeing this as a sign that he is cheating on me? Or maybe he just feels like dressing up some days and I should let the poor man be?
> Women wear thongs for a bunch of reasons - no visible panty line under tight pants/skirts being one of them which is why someone might wear a thong to the office/outings but not wear them at home.
> Micromanaging your partners' activities to that extent doesn't sound healthy for either person IMO, if you think your partner is cheating isn't it better to just talk to them about it? If they lie and you're sure they are lying then maybe it's better to do whatever is needed to end that relationship. What is the point of living in misery & stress every single day?


In a vacuum with no other potential red flags wearing a thong is not a issue, not a sign of cheating, or anything nefarious. That is not what is being talked about. It is when someone changes their behavior. Like suddenly wearing a thong, only to work, and after you've told your husband numerous times that you hate thongs. Taking a shower after work is no big deal, unless it is an unexpected change in behavior. Like 10 years at the same job, never showering after work and suddenly having to shower the minute you get home. Combine that with suddenly wearing those thongs you previously hated and you have to start scratching your heading. Now throw in lying about where you are and the alarm bells should be going off. Sometime a thong is just underwear and nothing to worry about, until it isn't.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I personally was replying to your first post. Yes, you did change your story after. Fair enough.


In everyone oh his posts the story is continually changing...I don't believe any of it


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Jimi007 said:


> In everyone oh his posts the story is continually changing...I don't believe any of it


I have decided not to interact with the OP any more. I'm sure he will be happy.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I have decided not to interact with the OP any more. I'm sure he will be happy.


When he gets called out on it....Crickets


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

so what have I learned from this topic , 

WOMEN that buy VS knickers are into cheating , So all I now have to do to know if my wife is a cheater is look in his knickers shelf , 
so before VS women never cheated ,

Cheaters lie I bought a dog not long ago the woman selling the pup said she is used to cats and chickens and gets on fine with them , NOW I know my new dog likes cats ONE BRESTFAST, DINNER, AND SUPPER .

So i think when she said loved cats was not in the same way I WAS THINKING 

SO now I have to rethink my Christmas gift for my wife , and all the girls that grow up in the 10 years from was it 2000 up to 2010 when thongs and g strings were all the go they are all the cheating generation and now that styles have gone back to granny knickers cheating is not as common High Waisted Knickers - Granny Panties just Upgraded!


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

so should I tell the husband of the woman that sold me the dog because I now know she lied that he needs to look in her knickers box ? 

is it ok the next time I want to get a new dog if I want to know if the dog is friendly with cats I have to ask to she what knickers she has on 

must try that next time I buy a car


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Only two red flags to look for if a girlfriend or wife is suspected of cheated.
1. They have to be in contact with their APs.
2. They have to go out to meet them.
Any other signs can be forgotten
If a spouse is constantly on her phone, doesn`t want anyone to hear her conversation or see her texts and guards her phone as if it`s surgically attached to her and/or tries to hide her activities on her laptop and starts pass wording everything.
Begins getting home later.
Goes out to events with people or a person that does involve her male partner.
Puts on sexy attire and more makeup when she goes out. Makes more effort to keep fit and with her appearance.
If any of this is happening, then is the time to start investigating a spouse activities.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> Makes more effort to keep fit


 my wife is gone big time into keep fit , she used to walk a few km every day until the day some strange guy was coming in the other direction in his car he stopped and then backed up and the more she walked away the more he backed up then she started to run , so that put her off the walking but now she does keep fit every night before she gets in to bed , do you think there is any chance , lol 

was it here we had someone tell us their husband would not let any near his phone as he was MI5


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

frenchpaddy said:


> so what have I learned from this topic ,
> 
> WOMEN that buy VS knickers are into cheating , So all I now have to do to know if my wife is a cheater is look in his knickers shelf ,
> so before VS women never cheated ,


Well it appears you have a learning disability.😉

That's not the gist at all.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Peanutbutter said:


> , if you think your partner is cheating isn't it better to just talk to them about it?


That's like the #1 thing NOT to do....if your spouse is not cheating they will likely get upset, etc... and if they are cheating you just gave them a good reason to hide it better.....i just have never heard or read about asking ones spouse about cheating leading to anything good. 

Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

This thread has been redirected, misdirected, changed to fit narrative, and twisted so much that by the end I’m going to either agree with everyone, disagree with everyone, or just plain forget what I was thinking about in the first place. 

So yeah ….. if you have to verify to trust …. You chose wrong to begin with.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> This thread has been redirected, misdirected, changed to fit narrative, and twisted so much that by the end I’m going to either agree with everyone, disagree with everyone, or just plain forget what I was thinking about in the first place.
> 
> So yeah ….. if you have to verify to trust …. You chose wrong to begin with.


Since poor behavior is so rampant, it's hard for many to have a solid partner to begin with.

A lot of men, maybe women too, have been hammered down so much as to be second guessing themselves when disrespect and infidelity would be obvious to a healthy individual.

There were also, as you alluded to, some individuals who totally ignored the details of the OP and made up there own stories and then started commenting on their own fantasies.

I'm not sure what the medical term for that behavior is but it is definitely a mental illness.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Since poor behavior is so rampant, it's hard for many to have a solid partner to begin with.
> 
> A lot of men, maybe women too, have been hammered down so much as to be second guessing themselves when disrespect and infidelity would be obvious to a healthy individual.
> 
> ...


Psychotic. We all know the individuals you are talking about.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> Psychotic. We all know the individuals you are talking about.


Its been years since I boiled someone’s pet rabbit and it was the ONE TIME. Sheesh!


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> Its been years since I boiled someone’s pet rabbit and it was the ONE TIME. Sheesh!


I thought it was you I spotted trying to pick my kids up from the bus stop 🤣


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Its been years since I boiled someone’s pet rabbit and it was the ONE TIME. Sheesh!


Damn!😆


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Its been years since I boiled someone’s pet rabbit and it was the ONE TIME. Sheesh!


That sounds tasty.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> That sounds tasty.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> View attachment 91429


That was such a good, but totally messed up, movie.😵‍💫


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

So your friend's wife says she went on a binge shopping trip for 2-3 hours........while her car stayed in WF parking lot........and her purse (I assume along with her cash and credit cards) stayed in a locker at WF....???????

By questioning her behavior, your friend just alerted her that he knows something is wrong. She will be even more careful. Got to give her credit though. She knows he can track the car and her phone to she leaves them at WF. The one thing that does not make sense to me is why she did not just lock he purse in the car instead of going to the trouble of getting a locker.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

happyhusband0005 said:


> That sounds tasty.



👑 COOK! WHERE'S MY HOSENPFEFFER!!!!!


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> If a spouse is constantly on her phone, doesn`t want anyone to hear her conversation or see her texts and guards her phone as if it`s surgically attached to her and/or tries to hide her activities on her laptop and starts pass wording everything.
> Begins getting home later.
> Goes out to events with people or a person that does involve her male partner.
> Puts on sexy attire and more makeup when she goes out. Makes more effort to keep fit and with her appearance.
> If any of this is happening, then is the time to start investigating a spouse activities.


Methinks that if it gets to that point she/he is already infatuated with the guy/gal, hence too late.

At that point, at best, we're dealing with an EA or a few days/weeks-old PA. At worst, a full blown PA in which the SO is gauging whether to take "the plunge" or not.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

TDSC60 said:


> So your friend's wife says she went on a binge shopping trip for 2-3 hours........while her car stayed in WF parking lot........and her purse (I assume along with her cash and credit cards) stayed in a locker at WF....???????
> 
> By questioning her behavior, your friend just alerted her that he knows something is wrong. She will be even more careful. Got to give her credit though. She knows he can track the car and her phone to she leaves them at WF. The one thing that does not make sense to me is why she did not just lock he purse in the car instead of going to the trouble of getting a locker.


No, my friend did not question her activity. He used to suspect she was a shopaholic and his comments to her were along those lines. His wife thinks he suspects her of buying clothes behind his back, not that she is cheating.


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## HarryBosch (6 mo ago)

JBLH said:


> Only the husband is supposed to see that


I used to agree with this statement. Then I realized that nice clothes, no matter what they are, make a woman feel beautiful. When a woman is divorced or broke up with a significant other, I see no issue with a woman wanting to feel beautiful, because truth be told, when you have to deal with loss, feeling beautiful is probably pretty important.

That being said..


Conan has a point... If my significant other was wearing VS bra's or underwear and I never saw it on her, I would definitely wonder to myself who was seeing it. My Ex had some VS stuff and she bought it for me... but she told me she hated to wear it because in truth it was uncomfortable. She never wore the stuff because I'd rather her be comfortable then have something on that is uncomfortable and eventually just going to come off anyway.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

HarryBosch said:


> I used to agree with this statement. Then I realized that nice clothes, no matter what they are, make a woman feel beautiful. When a woman is divorced or broke up with a significant other, I see no issue with a woman wanting to feel beautiful, because truth be told, when you have to deal with loss, feeling beautiful is probably pretty important.
> 
> That being said..
> 
> ...


This and the fact that she was wearing the VS thongs at a time when she, supposedly, had no sex drive at all.

Kinda taking out the Ferrari to drive it in bumper-to-bumper traffic...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

JBLH said:


> This and the fact that she was wearing the VS thongs at a time when she, supposedly, had no sex drive at all.
> 
> Kinda taking out the Ferrari to drive it in bumper-to-bumper traffic...


Thr only underwear I own is from VS. It fits well and is comfortable.

I once saw Walmart take back an open package of underwear....what are the odds it went back out for sale? Yuck.

So even if I didn’t have a sex drive (I do) and my guy didn't see it (he does) I'd still be wearing VS.

But no thongs. Way too uncomfortable.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Thr only underwear I own is from VS. It fits well and is comfortable.


My wife says the same.

My fellow dudes, get the idea out of your head that VS stuff is special. Granted, it can be, but most of the time, it's not. Some ladies like to match and it makes them feel good, and to some, it's just underthings.

Don't make it more than it is.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Zedd said:


> My wife says the same.
> 
> My fellow dudes, get the idea out of your head that VS stuff is special. Granted, it can be, but most of the time, it's not. Some ladies like to match and it makes them feel good, and to some, it's just underthings.
> 
> Don't make it more than it is.


Guys, it’s not about VS, it’s all about the context.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Guys, it’s not about VS, it’s all about the context.


Agreed, but you come in with context as well. You're currently very jaded by all things female related because of your recent experiences.

Context matters, but don't make it more than it is.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Zedd said:


> Agreed, but you come in with context as well. You're currently very jaded by all things female related because of your recent experiences.
> 
> Context matters, but don't make it more than it is.


No, no, no. My opinion does not deviate just because they’re a female. I would’ve said the same thing if the person were a male and all of a sudden went through an attire and hygiene change at the age of 47: shut up and ears open.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

So @BoSlander, any news about the friend and his wife?


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> So @BoSlander, any news about the friend and his wife?


Not really. He dropped my XW immediately as soon as he heard I was onto him and now my XW seems to have developed an episode of depression (because of him, not me). I was going to go after him by telling his wife about the cheating but the phone forensics showed my XW cheated on me at least 4 times in the past 25 years. I had two iPhones and 2 flip phones looked at and... let me tell you, just looking at the data from one of the old ones (the ones that Sprint used to give out for free when you bought into the plan) provided me with enough information to say for sure that she cheated on me 4 times. I gave up on the other phones because I highly suspect there is more stuff in there. It's sickening but I'm glad I did it. And it wasn't the ex that initiated things either. She would initiate things and even send him pictures of a tattoo that she had that he remembered. Nipples, clit... you name it, she sent to him. Then one of the ONS, she strangely kept the phone number and she must've given it to him pretty good because I see 30+ calls to his number in a span of 2 months, then HE broke it off. There was a time when, for 2 weeks I think, she was banging two dudes and me at the same time (one of the ONS, the ex and me). Pretty sick. 

Having said all of the above, I'm still amazed at how she was able to pull all of this off. My XW was never the type to go on GNO without telling me and coming back home drunk or smelling like a bucket of sperm, work late or go in extra early without telling me. She wasn't the extremely flirty type, etc. And I'm no chump, I've always been vigilant and knew what to look out for but this is beyond me. The CIA ought to be writing manuals based on my XW's procedures. I think what kept her safe was the fact that 1) she would never communicate with her flings outside of work hours, meaning I would never see her phone going off at crazy hours or anything like that, 2) she would always delete the communications and communicating apps every afternoon, 3) she would meet these men during a half hour window in the morning and afternoon and some times she must've left work early or even call in sick to have sex with them.

The moment I knew something was going on was when I found out she came home from one of her 3-hour shopping sprees with one or two things and I saw there was no charge to any of the credit cards. That's when I knew something was up.

And, as you can tell, my head is still spinning because of this... I think it's going to take me years to get over this.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> Not really. He dropped my XW immediately as soon as he heard I was onto him and now my XW seems to have developed an episode of depression (because of him, not me). I was going to go after him by telling his wife about the cheating but the phone forensics showed my XW cheated on me at least 4 times in the past 25 years. I had two iPhones and 2 flip phones looked at and... let me tell you, just looking at the data from one of the old ones (the ones that Sprint used to give out for free when you bought into the plan) provided me with enough information to say for sure that she cheated on me 4 times. I gave up on the other phones because I highly suspect there is more stuff in there. It's sickening but I'm glad I did it. And it wasn't the ex that initiated things either. She would initiate things and even send him pictures of a tattoo that she had that he remembered. Nipples, clit... you name it, she sent to him. Then one of the ONS, she strangely kept the phone number and she must've given it to him pretty good because I see 30+ calls to his number in a span of 2 months, then HE broke it off. There was a time when, for 2 weeks I think, she was banging two dudes and me at the same time (one of the ONS, the ex and me). Pretty sick.
> 
> Having said all of the above, I'm still amazed at how she was able to pull all of this off. My XW was never the type to go on GNO without telling me and coming back home drunk or smelling like a bucket of sperm, work late or go in extra early without telling me. She wasn't the extremely flirty type, etc. And I'm no chump, I've always been vigilant and knew what to look out for but this is beyond me. The CIA ought to be writing manuals based on my XW's procedures. I think what kept her safe was the fact that 1) she would never communicate with her flings outside of work hours, meaning I would never see her phone going off at crazy hours or anything like that, 2) she would always delete the communications and communicating apps every afternoon, 3) she would meet these men during a half hour window in the morning and afternoon and some times she must've left work early or even call in sick to have sex with them.
> 
> ...


Stories like yours create a visceral anger in me. I may take some heat for this, but in the hierarchy of horrible things you can do to another person, I feel like infidelity is next up after murder and rape.

That said, I think @ABHale was asking about your friend with the friend with the wife that says she is going shopping, but doesn't and wears thongs to work.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Stories like yours create a visceral anger in me. I may take some heat for this, but in the hierarchy of horrible things you can do to another person, I feel like infidelity is next up after murder and rape.


Yes, duplicitous AF. Even her in-laws were astonished, and they have no idea about the other 3 men. If I tell them they will surely throw her out of the house, but I need her to get better and go back to work, otherwise she may cost me more money. 



> That said, I think @ABHale was asking about your friend with the friend with the wife that says she is going shopping, but doesn't and wears thongs to work.


He's OK. I helped him set up a VAR in the car, the only problem is that he got a Record Your Life Inc USR-300, which is a piece of crap because it picks up everything, like a car passing by will set it off, so he has to evaluate all these small audio files and I can tell he's getting a little overwhelmed. He wants to confront his SO but, so far, I've been able to convince him not to. I've also lent him my Sony VAR and he seems to like it a lot more than the other one. He hasn't heard any spicy stuff yet, but he did pick up a conversation between his wife and an unidentified man that sounds like a coworker of his.

She's also started to withdraw cash from her bank account in small similar increments every week, buying clothes with the credit card and then get cash or a store credit for the return. Weird stuff. Ah, and he told me that some days she takes extra underwear in a paper bag. He says she doesn't know he knows but, when he told me my stomach immediately said “yup, she’s having sex with someone else.” But I kept mute.

Sad thing is that one of his male coworkers found out last week that he got cheated on by his wife of 15 years and the guy took it so bad he had to take a short term leave of absence. What is going on with American women dude???


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> Yes, duplicitous AF. Even her in-laws were astonished, and they have no idea about the other 3 men. If I tell them they will surely throw her out of the house, but I need her to get better and go back to work, otherwise she may cost me more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your friends situation is terrible. As are all infidelities, which is what he has on his hands for sure. Thankfully not all women are like that. There are good and bad in both genders. It is just devastating when you find out you've got a bad one.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> Yes, duplicitous AF. Even her in-laws were astonished, and they have no idea about the other 3 men. If I tell them they will surely throw her out of the house, but I need her to get better and go back to work, otherwise she may cost me more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey now, you can't put all women in to the same category.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Hey now, you can't put all women in to the same category.


You’re right…


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> Yes, duplicitous AF. Even her in-laws were astonished, and they have no idea about the other 3 men. If I tell them they will surely throw her out of the house, but I need her to get better and go back to work, otherwise she may cost me more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would it not really help your friend if he just hired a PI and get it over with.
I think a PI will have all the evidence he needs in just a few days.
I think your friend already has an idea what is going on, I think he already suspects his wife is cheating, if not, then I am sorry, then I think he is not all too smart.
So with hiring a PI he will shorten the suffering and have the evidence much quicker.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

MrBigBull said:


> Would it not really help your friend if he just hired a PI and get it over with.
> I think a PI will have all the evidence he needs in just a few days.
> I think your friend already has an idea what is going on, I think he already suspects his wife is cheating, if not, then I am sorry, then I think he is not all too smart.
> So with hiring a PI he will shorten the suffering and have the evidence much quicker.


I completely agree with you.

My issue is that I'm the bearer of bad news and... it seem as though, ever since my own cheating "situation," everything I touch, everyone I talk to seems to end up suffering a similar fate. 

I don't want to get to the point where and when friends try to avoid me because I seem to be accompanied by issues.


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> I completely agree with you.
> 
> My issue is that I'm the bearer of bad news and... it seem as though, ever since my own cheating "situation," everything I touch, everyone I talk to seems to end up suffering a similar fate.
> 
> I don't want to get to the point where and when friends try to avoid me because I seem to be accompanied by issues.


I get your point.
To be honest, if friends think it is you who caused it, then they are not all to bright (sorry I said this).

You do not have to bring the news to him, you can talk to him in a way so it is his idea.
Like asking what he thinks, what he tries to find out, why he wants to record his wife.
Then just tell him well, if you want to know what your wife is doing, you can always hire a PI, the PI can tell you what your wife is doing by just following her a few days.

Basically, you do not tell him you think she is cheating, you just gave him an idea to get more information he is already collecting.


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## Peanutbutter (Jul 21, 2011)

CantBelieveThis said:


> That's like the #1 thing NOT to do....if your spouse is not cheating they will likely get upset, etc... and if they are cheating you just gave them a good reason to hide it better.....i just have never heard or read about asking one's spouse about cheating leading to anything good.
> 
> Sent from my SHT-W09 using Tapatalk


Ah!


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> I completely agree with you.
> 
> My issue is that I'm the bearer of bad news and... it seem as though, ever since my own cheating "situation," everything I touch, everyone I talk to seems to end up suffering a similar fate.
> 
> I don't want to get to the point where and when friends try to avoid me because I seem to be accompanied by issues.


Is it possible that because you have been cheated on, you are categorizing every woman and every situation as a cheater?


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Is it possible that because you have been cheated on, you are categorizing every woman and every situation as a cheater?


I am not. However, I do tell people to keep digging when the obvious signs of infidelity rear their ugly head though. If those people eventually find out their SO did not do anything wrong, even better, but if people keep putting themselves in positions where that could potentially happen, I'd keep looking.

And please stop judging me. 

My opinion is not me.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

BoSlander said:


> I am not. However, I do tell people to keep digging when the obvious signs of infidelity rear their ugly head though. If those people eventually find out their SO did not do anything wrong, even better, but if people keep putting themselves in positions where that could potentially happen, I'd keep looking.
> 
> And please stop judging me.
> 
> My opinion is not me.


I am by no means judging you. I asked a question because you stated that you are the bringer of bad news for your friends and their relationships. Analyze this situation - 
Your friend stumbles across a separate facebook that his wife has, only because it shows up on his friend suggestions that is not open for the public. The name on the facebook is her maiden name, her default picture is from about 4 years ago, of her and her 2 nieces. There are only a few visible posts on it, and they are for recruitment for her job. Your friend comes to you with this information, what would your response to that be?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

BoSlander said:


> My issue is that I'm the bearer of bad news and... it seem as though, ever since my own cheating "situation," everything I touch, everyone I talk to seems to end up suffering a similar fate.
> 
> I don't want to get to the point where and when friends try to avoid me because I seem to be accompanied by issues.


Since it happened to you, you now know the signs and are observing them around you. They have likely always been there only you were oblivious and now you aren't.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BoSlander said:


> Yes, duplicitous AF. Even her in-laws were astonished, and they have no idea about the other 3 men. If I tell them they will surely throw her out of the house, but I need her to get better and go back to work, otherwise she may cost me more money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As to your last sentence.... I don't know but I had three friends get divorced last year because their wives turned into cheating hohohoes.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> I am by no means judging you. I asked a question because you stated that you are the bringer of bad news for your friends and their relationships. Analyze this situation -
> Your friend stumbles across a separate facebook that his wife has, only because it shows up on his friend suggestions that is not open for the public. The name on the facebook is her maiden name, her default picture is from about 4 years ago, of her and her 2 nieces. There are only a few visible posts on it, and they are for recruitment for her job. Your friend comes to you with this information, what would your response to that be?


💁‍♂️ 🤣


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> 💁‍♂️ 🤣


He still won't let me live this one down, even tho we realized that I told him about this account when him and I first started dating and his exact words were 'it's not a big deal, it's only facebook'...


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> He still won't let me live this one down, even tho we realized that I told him about this account when him and I first started dating and his exact words were 'it's not a big deal, it's only facebook'...


And it is, in fact, for the business page for work


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> And it is, in fact, for the business page for work


It took me about 2 seconds to know what you were talking about. Sorry to hear it's a sore spot in your marriage though.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (9 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> It took me about 2 seconds to know what you were talking about. Sorry to hear it's a sore spot in your marriage though.


We are getting through it. Things are actually, honestly pretty well lately.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> So @BoSlander, any news about the friend and his wife?


Well, my friend just confirmed his wife did cheat on him with the coworker. Don't know the specifics yet but... he wants to file for divorce immediately. 

What a f-cking year!!!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Is it possible that because you have been cheated on, you are categorizing every woman and every situation as a cheater?





BoSlander said:


> Well, my friend just confirmed his wife did cheat on him with the coworker. Don't know the specifics yet but... he wants to file for divorce immediately.
> 
> What a f-cking year!!!


 Seems like the folks who always defend the supposed cheater or expound on exculpatory possibilities never have much to say when the cheating is finally proven.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Sounds like to take joy in this. Like a crusade


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

snowbum said:


> Sounds like to take joy in this. Like a crusade


That's a pretty negative take. That said a crusade against cheaters doesn't sound like a bad thing.
Maybe it should be taken as a lesson to the 'defenders' that they shouldn't be so gullible and defend someone for reasons other than the evidence.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

BoSlander said:


> Well, my friend just confirmed his wife did cheat on him with the coworker. Don't know the specifics yet but... he wants to file for divorce immediately.
> 
> What a f-cking year!!!


At least he knows.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

So, I'm still confused about something... Is his wife or her AP an employee of Whole Foods? Cause, as far as I know, the only lockers available to the public are Amazon lockers which are for pickups and returns.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> So, I'm still confused about something... Is his wife or her AP an employee of Whole Foods? Cause, as far as I know, the only lockers available to the public are Amazon lockers which are for pickups and returns.


Good catch!
She might have stored them in AP's locker but that doesn't quite sit right. The logistics would be awkward.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Good catch!
> She might have stored them in AP's locker but that doesn't quite sit right. The logistics would be awkward.


Something's not passing the sniff test with this saga...


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> So, I'm still confused about something... Is his wife or her AP an employee of Whole Foods? Cause, as far as I know, the only lockers available to the public are Amazon lockers which are for pickups and returns.


As far as I know, she was buying everything online and telling her STBXH that she was going to go to WF to buy the groceries for the week. She would then proceed to the WF, leave her phone in a locker and drive away with a coworker.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

BoSlander said:


> As far as I know, she was buying everything online and telling her STBXH that she was going to go to WF to buy the groceries for the week. She would then proceed to the WF, leave her phone in a locker and drive away with a coworker.


I get that you don't know the details, but from what I researched about the lockers at WF, that doesn't make sense. Anyway, good luck to your friend. Maybe you could send him here for support.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

TXTrini said:


> I get that you don't know the details, but from what I researched about the lockers at WF, that doesn't make sense. Anyway, good luck to your friend. Maybe you could send him here for support.


I guess she didn’t want him to track her iPhone through the Find Me function?


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

There are no lockers at WF for the public. 
I think what you may be saying is that she is banging a WF employee, who has a locker to store his things in while working ?

Why not just turn the tracking function off on the phone ? If she's going to cheat you would think she would want her phone with her. 
I don't know the whole story reaks of BS


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Jimi007 said:


> There are no lockers at WF for the public.
> I think what you may be saying is that she is banging a WF employee, who has a locker to store his things in while working ?
> 
> Why not just turn the tracking function off on the phone ? If she's going to cheat you would think she would want her phone with her.
> I don't know the whole story reaks of BS


Not true. There ARE lockers for buyers at the local WF where my friend lives.

As for why she would do such a thing… he told me that is she were to leave the iPhone in the car, he’d see that the phone was left in the car unattended, while WF is a “dead zone” as far as tracking is concerned and he wouldn't be able to tell whether she’s shopping around in the store or left her phone somewhere.

When I was tracking my XW I did have issues seeing where she was when she was out in a large mall. The GPS would point to the entrance to the mall and not move.


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