# Religion the deal breaker..



## LandLBoy (May 1, 2011)

My girlfriend and I have been together for over 9 months. She is religious, a Christian orthodox, while I am nothing. If anything I like to call myself an atheist/agnostic even though I have my doubts. She grew up in a religious family, going to church weekly etc..Me on the other hand, I have grown up in a family that ignores religion altogether, it is almost non-existent in my life. 

Yesterday she suddenly flipped out on me when she found out I was PRO gay marriage...She stated she could not be with me any longer because of my beliefs and mainly because I am not her religion. Then, she gave me this ultimatum: 

Have regular meetings with her priest in hopes that I will become a Christian, even if it takes years. If at the end I become a Christian then she will be with me but if not, she can say to herself that she tried and we go our separate ways. I can choose to see other girls while I am doing this as well.

Does this sound fair to you and should I agree to it? That I go through with these meetings knowing that there is a very minimal chance my beliefs and religion will change, and at the same time see other girls...?

Here's the other thing, I am 18 years old and I am going to university in September...I love this girl but I feel if she loved me she wouldn't make me do this...

ALL ADVICE/OPINIONS/INPUT IS WELCOME! THANKS IN ADVANCE


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## daison (Mar 3, 2011)

At 18 you're probably going to eventually feel resentment for this. I didn't become a christian until I was 22 (after being an aggressive atheist) and even then it took me about another 3 or 4 years until i "got it". 

It isn't popular in christian circles to marry outside of your faith, so I can see where she is coming from. Her family/church is probably pressuring her. I would say it might be worth investigating it with an open mind, but if you're not ready you're not ready. It's only been 9 months, it looks to me like this would just grow and grow into bigger and bigger issues the longer you're together (if you're not changing how or as fast as she expects).


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

This scenario sounds fair, because it doesn't sound like you're being "forced" to do anything, but encouraged to learn about a part of your girlfriend's life that is very important to her. You're also free to date other people during this time, so if you find someone with whom you're more compatible, no worries.

Honestly, it sounds fair to me. She's staying true to her beliefs, not pushing you to convert, but letting you know it WOULD be a dealbreaker down the road if you weren't Christian by that time.

She's allowing for the time necessary to come to this on your own IF you do, and in the meantime, you are invited to learn about her faith, no strings attached.

IF you are in fact interested in this faith, what's the harm in learning about it, and then making an informed decision either for or against it in your own life.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Any partner that gives such an ultimatum regarding your spiritual beliefs isn`t someone you want to have a relationship with.

She is utterly and entirely disrespecting your beliefs(or lack of)and you as a person.

The world view you hold is every bit as valid as her own, it deserves to be respected.

You will resent her (rightfully so) and regret submitting to such demeaning demands.
Be thankful she has given you this sign before the relationship went any farther.

Leave her, this is a deal breaker.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Does Eastern Orthodox support divorce? Because if you convert, and that's more or less a given since she won't submit to a marriage not performed in the E.O. rite in their church, what will happen down the road in 10 years when you no longer support that or worse, don't agree to whatever she demands vis a vis the religious education of your kids?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I don't see how this "ultimatum" is any different from any other lifestyle preference or course.

I'm sure she's not the only person who would say to her SO: "I do x, and you do y. X means so much to me that I'll need a partner who will join me for it. You're free to choose to do x with me. Nothing wrong with y; just not for me. If you want to do x, take your time to decide that on your own."

apply the same argument to any number of lifestyle choices or behaviors.

All she's saying is IF it's going to progress, she needs a partner in "x."

deal breaker, sure.
"disrespect," not so sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Does Eastern Orthodox support divorce? Because if you convert, and that's more or less a given since she won't submit to a marriage not performed in the E.O. rite in their church, what will happen down the road in 10 years when you no longer support that or worse, don't agree to whatever she demands vis a vis the religious education of your kids?


Eastern Orthodoxy doesn't take an official position on divorce pro or con.
It allows it if it's necessary. 
Must go through "spiritual court," but there's no waiting period or "annulment" procedure.

Not sure if it was a serious question, though. I'm just showing off,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> All she's saying is IF it's going to progress, she needs a partner in "x."
> 
> deal breaker, sure.
> "disrespect," not so sure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Would you feel the same if she gave this ultimatum to a Buddhist? Hindu? Muslim? Catholic?Baptist?

She is essentially stating his spirituality has to change in order for him to be with her.

She is stating that his world view is incorrect and must be "Fixed" before she can be with him.

I`d already be gone, it`s intolerable not to mention hysterically hypocritical.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Would you feel the same if she gave this ultimatum to a Buddhist? Hindu? Muslim? Catholic?Baptist?
> 
> She is essentially stating his spirituality has to change in order for him to be with her.
> 
> ...


She's not saying anything about his beliefs.
She's saying something about her own.

It's also not an "ultimatum."
it's not at "ultimatum" stage yet. 

She said "you're welcome to learn and choose on your own."
no one's forcing him to do anything. She's just looking down the road and knowing what she'll need when it's time to get married.

I think for two 18-year-olds, this is a responsible thing to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Btw, I'm not saying he "should" do this.

I just don't think his girlfriend is so terrible for knowing that eventually she'll want to marry a Christian.

Yes, she's being close-minded and judgmental about his beliefs on homosexuality and marriage.
All THAT indicates is that she should learn a little more about her own faith's teaching on the topic.
The E.O. Church isn't nearly as condemning or damning of homosexuality, although it doesn't condone gay marriage.
There's a lot more compassion in that theology that she would benefit from learning herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Eastern Orthodoxy doesn't take an official position on divorce pro or con.
> It allows it if it's necessary.
> Must go through "spiritual court," but there's no waiting period or "annulment" procedure.
> 
> ...


My point is that these questions are never abstract. They're not hypothetical. They mean something. And in the long run this disconnect will become as significant as any other disconnect in a marriage. Half the people here are ready to walk out over differences in sex. Why would differences in faith be less significant.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> My point is that these questions are never abstract. They're not hypothetical. They mean something. And in the long run this disconnect will become as significant as any other disconnect in a marriage. Half the people here are ready to walk out over differences in sex. Why would differences in faith be less significant.


I see your point. I just had to show off a little too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

If you want to explore Christianity for yourself, great. Separate the idea from her--because if you are dating others and exploring ideas on your own, this isn't really about her. 

I agree that she has a right to decide if she cannot commit to someone who does not share her faith. On the other hand, she is demonstrating that she may not be very open-minded . Is this really someone you can see spending your life with? Would she be willing to explore ideas and information that contradict what she believes? If not, then this isn't about her faith, it's about a mismatch between the two of you that is likely to be very problemmatic. 

Good luck at university, and with whatever you decide in this particular matter.


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## daison (Mar 3, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> She said "you're welcome to learn and choose on your own."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She actually "flipped out" and told him "she could not be with me any longer because of my beliefs and mainly because I am not her religion."

Then she gave him the option to see other people while exploring her religion. I agree that it's important for her to know what she wants in a relationship, but I would go so far as to say that she probably knew his beliefs (or lack thereof) at the beginning of these 9 months and if it was going to be an issue in the future she would have benefited from making her position well known right from the get go.

I don't see the logic behind her "ultimatum". And I don't get the impression he's willing to change. Therefore my vote is walk away before it becomes an even bigger thorn.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

In our religion, a lot of women remain to be single because they can't find proper men to get married. There aren't enough men in our religion.

They are heavily influenced that marrying somebody who is not in the truth will hurt them badly. The divorce rate is so high not in the truth, cheating is so common. Witness women are scared to marry a man who doesn't have the same belief. Sometimes I wonder if this is better or not. Remain to be single or marry somebody who doesn't have the same belief. 

No one can force you to convert to a religion unless you want to do it yourself. If you are forced into studying a religion, you tend to hate it rather than like it. You will focus on the bad rather than the good. I personally believe every religion has something great and something ridiculous. 

If you yourself want to study this religion, and want to improve yourself from studying a religion, it is actually a good thing. 

The Bible has a lot of wisdom in it, if you learn it very well, you will benefit a lot from it.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

tacoma said:


> Any partner that gives such an ultimatum regarding your spiritual beliefs isn`t someone you want to have a relationship with.
> 
> She is utterly and entirely disrespecting your beliefs(or lack of)and you as a person.
> 
> ...


:iagree: We have to walk our own spritual path. She cannot force you to become a Christian. 
Mr.G is an atheist. I wish he believed in God, but I cannot make that choice for him. 
I don't have a lot of respect for close minded Christians. God will never be against love and only He can judge gays. 
I have dated 2 fake Christian men, one of the reasons I was turned off church. One refused to have sex on Sunday, despite the fact that we were already having premarital sex.:rofl: Sin is sin, no matter what day it is! The other refused to have sex with me, but lost his virginity to a stripper. He and his "Christian" fiancee have sex all the time...I thought true Christians waited until marriage.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> I may be over analyzing, but here's what I read into this... You're both young. Things are getting a little serious but you're getting ready to go off to college. She's scared about long term because she has a commitment to her faith. She's looking into the future and wondering if this will work out. She likes you but wants you to share her beliefs. You don't and that scares her. She's trying to get you to tell her whether you see yourself becoming a Christian in the future so that there's a possibility of a future between the two of you. She's weighing heavily on your answer. She needs a defining answer to help her make this decision.
> 
> My thoughts? If you're only going to delve into Christianity for her, then you won't be a Christian anyway. It will be forced. If you're intrigued and feel compelled to search, by all means, do. But, if you search, do it for you and your own well-being. Otherwise, sever the relationship. It won't work.


Well said. I agree.

Search and learn if YOU are interested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

LandLBoy said:


> She stated she could not be with me any longer because of my beliefs and mainly because I am not her religion.


When you date its because you like who the person is at that time, not who you can change them into. It doesn't sound to me like she likes you. She likes the idea of what she can turn you into. There are people out there who would admire you for your curiosity and thoughts and not demand you be what they think is right. They would want to help you explore your thoughts, not convince you to be what they are. 

Its possible you are struggling with the god issue so you want to explore what she's offering. You aren't sure yourself so maybe you want to find out. That is perfectly fine. But do it for you and you alone, not for a girl who thinks that's who you should be. She's not supportive of your curiosity and so will not be helpful to you in this regard. If you were single would you do this on your own? If so, do it on your own.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

If you are an open minded individual (who generally uses reason over faith), I think the last thing you need to do is marry a conservative traditional religious person who will correct you every time you disagree. This will caues umpteen wars in your future from the very small to the very large. 

Then children will be born & caught in the unequally yoked chaos. It is different if 2 faiths are tolerable of each other, not demanding & allows their children the CHOICE. But each faith generally will war for the hearts of the children. 

I Used to be a christian and I was literally a pain in the a** to my poor husband, He was a great guy so I married him anyway, dragging him to church 3 times a week (for a spell).

But I used to complain he didnt pray enough, or read the bible enough, feeling he was not taking the Spiritual lead, and the craziest thing about all of this was --- He always had more Fruits of the Spirit than me!!! He was more loving, more patient, more happy, more tolerable. 

Now, looking back, I am SOOOOO happy he was never one of these super spiriitual men cause I swear it would have ruined our marraige. Obviously I have lost my religion. But I have gained more peace, having more FUN with life & living, I am more tolerable, less critical, now I can look at people and see what we have in common, not what separates us. 

Just as she does not want to marry anyone outside of her beliefs, many of us on the outside would not want to marry someone WITH those stringent beliefs. Dont' take it too personal. We all have our path to walk in life, best to walk with someone who "gets us" & ACCEPTS us for who we are. I accually agree with the Christians, we should marry those who THINK & BELIEVE like us as this is just plain & simple wisdom for future happiness & understanding. 

Two men at my husbands workplace, their wives found GOD after they married, the kinky sex stopped, everything was "sinful" all of a sudden, drove them completely nuts, and both ended up divorced. Just food for thought.


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## luckyman (Apr 14, 2011)

It would be one thing if she had a conversion experience during your marriage, but you're not married. You know who you are dating. She is who she is. She has a right to be who she is, and you have a right to be who you are. Go to university and leave the idea of a life with her behind. 

You will find another, more suitable person who shares your beliefs and convictions (whatever they happen to be). If you are not motivated to become a Christian, then converting will only produce confusion and resentment.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> She's not saying anything about his beliefs.
> She's saying something about her own.


By trying to change his beliefs in such a drastic manner she is indeed making a statement about them.



> It's also not an "ultimatum."
> it's not at "ultimatum" stage yet.


The OP says it`s an ultimatum.



> Yesterday she suddenly flipped out on me when she found out I was PRO gay marriage...She stated she could not be with me any longer because of my beliefs and mainly because I am not her religion. Then, she gave me this ultimatum:
> 
> Have regular meetings with her priest in hopes that I will become a Christian, even if it takes years. If at the end I become a Christian then she will be with me but if not, she can say to herself that she tried and we go our separate ways. I can choose to see other girls while I am doing this as well.


Stating that you must eventually convert to my beliefs or we cannot have a relationship is an ultimatum.
It`s the very definition of "ultimatum".

Leave this girl.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Ok. I retract my "it's not an ultimatum." 

OP said so in his words. By my understanding, more like a preventative ultimatum. Semantics. Whatever. 

I just didn't think it sounded so harsh or controlling, that's all. I just don't think she should be vilified for being honest.

They're 18. As I said, putting the relationship on hold because of these differences seems the right thing to do.

Years down the road, he may or may not feel the same about his religious beliefs, but if he DOES want to be a Christian for HIS OWN REASONS, it's possible they'll be on the same page. And, he may have a different respect for her for putting it first at this juncture in their relationship.

If he doesn't want to be a Christian, then both of them have stayed true to themselves and their beliefs. No harm, no foul.


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## Boogsie (Aug 24, 2010)

My advice is run away, don't walk away.


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

If she is going to learn about atheism and why they believe what they do, then it's fair. If she'll try her hardest to become an atheist, even if it takes years, then why not?


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## bunnybear (Jan 13, 2011)

My hubby was an atheist before we got married and I'm Christian and he respects that. We got married in church, we baptized our first child in church. He respects my wishes to raise our kids to be Christians. He now sees himself as Christian and this makes me happy and we're going to get our 2nd baby baptized in the church soon and he even goes to church on sundays with/without me. ?I never asked him to convert, he just chose to. I even told him that he doesn'e have to if he doesn't have any beliefs or else he's just lyng to himself but it's his decision. U don't have to convert if u wanna marry her.


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

Sooooo, she is a "good" christian girl, yet how long have you been sleeping together, out of wedlock.....I would kick her ass to the kerb, unless you genuinely think that your soul needs saving.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I agree with the others who have said that you are too young, and faced with too many conflicts to proceed. If she was strong in her faith, she wouldn't have let it get that far to keep from putting you in that kind of dilemma. Go to college, follow your conscience and see where you end up.

I was in a similar place, but older. My wife let me know that she couldn't date a non-Christian because it wouldn't be fair to either of us. We were friends for years before I converted to her religion. Can't blame her. 

In my case, I was the kind of kid who went through the Nietzsche phase at thirteen. Went to college on a literary scholarship and became a big fan of Socrates. Part of the reason he was killed for blasphemy of believing that there could be only one god. In a quirky way, this led to my later conversion. Well ... that and stumbling across the guy who wrote Darwin's Black Box. Don't mean to bore you but half the fun of college is finding your way to your beliefs.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

If she gives an "ultimatum" like that (even though it doesn't sound too hi-pressure), what other ultimatums will she give? Kids when you're not ready? Be making x amount of $ by age 25? House you can't afford?
Can you take her nagging you about your progress as a christian, even though you may not have your heart totally in it?

I was born catholic, but by the time I was 22, I decided that I was agnostic (I don't have the brains to be an atheist), but it was a long, personal journey of deep thought and soul searching, and I had to make that decision myself-nobody pressured me into it. Just like you will have to accept religion (if you do indeed choose to do so) on YOUR terms, not on hers.

You're still young, and frankly, I don't think that you should chain your wagon to this star only.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

As a Christian I can honestly say that this is a nightmare scenario for you. Way too much influence from her side on your convictions.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

You're 18 - run and run fast.

Meet someone who has similar religious ideals as you.

Religion is one of the things that could (and apparently has) put a wedge between you.

Someone should never DEMAND that someone convert to their religion to be considered worthy of their love.

This is a control tactic. She will use it in religion, sex, money, child rearing, anything to get her way.

And I agree with the other poster who said - if you/her are having sex out of wedlock - then she is what we call a hypocrite.

You're young - plenty of time for girls and settling down. I guarantee there are lots of girls that will be interested in you at college!


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## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

This usually doesn't creep into a marriage until kids are on the way. I know a LOT of guys (myself included) who married a girl who seemed to have no interest in religion but had religious parents. As soon as she got pregnant she decided that she needs to go back to being religious and going to church for the kids. Of course that's when the pressure and ultimatums start.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Mrs.G said:


> :iagree: We have to walk our own spritual path. She cannot force you to become a Christian.
> Mr.G is an atheist. I wish he believed in God, but I cannot make that choice for him.
> I don't have a lot of respect for close minded Christians. God will never be against love and only He can judge gays.
> I have dated 2 fake Christian men, one of the reasons I was turned off church. One refused to have sex on Sunday, despite the fact that we were already having premarital sex.:rofl: Sin is sin, no matter what day it is! The other refused to have sex with me, but lost his virginity to a stripper. He and his "Christian" fiancee have sex all the time...I thought true Christians waited until marriage.


:iagree:

For a lot of people - religion is simply a word. They go to church on Sunday (to be seen) and profess to be religious but their daily lives/activities do not support their religious side.

It's one of the reasons I quit going to church. Too many hypocrites.

If you are truly a Christian - then you practice what you preach. And there are too many what I all "phony Christians" that preach it, but do not live it in their own lives.

Don't preach to me and I won't preach to you and we can all practice our religion (or lack thereof) as we wish.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm not Christian, wife is not. I don't understand this urge to proselytize. In my background, conversion can take up to a year and one is actively dissuaded from converting every step of the way. 

I say you have to follow your own path and to blazes with what other people think.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

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