# Did your sexless relationship ever improve?



## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

If you are/were in a relationship that was sexless/almost sexless, did things ever improve to a point where you were happy and glad you did not separate? If so, what brought about the improvement?


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## studley (Oct 19, 2011)

They did improve after 4 years of no sex when she realized our marriage was on the rocks. So we "got together" again but it only lasted about a month. Back again to no sex for the last 2 years.


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

What keeps you together? Why do you stay? It seems to be a theme that low libido partners may improve for a while, but generally go back to "their old ways".


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

Was great when we dated prob 2-3 times a week. 6 mos before the wedding it died down to once a week, since the wedding its been once every 3-4 weeks and usually it happens just because she senses im getting tense and super upset and realizes she has to do it or i will just walk, especially since were young and have no kids/commitment. Its been this way for two years....so all i can say from my experience is it doesnt change.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> What keeps you together? Why do you stay? It seems to be a theme that low libido partners may improve for a while, but generally go back to "their old ways".


yes, she changes for like a week or two just enough to get happy and confident that things are fine then it stops.


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## CWM0842 (Dec 8, 2011)

Toshiba I am in your situation almost exactly. How long do you plan on waiting around? Is she trying to correct the problem at all? This has been going on with me for about a year now.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

CWM0842 said:


> Toshiba I am in your situation almost exactly. How long do you plan on waiting around? Is she trying to correct the problem at all? This has been going on with me for about a year now.


There are other issues, shes a workaholic and overly close with her family, like see them multiple hours a day close but i can tolerate everything but the sexless marriage. Ive been to marriage therapy (went by myself as she refused to go) but it didnt help, she will make an effort every month or two but its short lived and were back to where we were. At this point im ready to cut my losses, im young, good sense of humor, good looking, athletic, have a good career and feel like im a decent catch for most young women out there...well other than ill be divorced. The first year i never considered divorce as i wanted to give it time and make it work, now deep into year two im starting to fear it will never change. I have been on and off the fence for the last 6 months but the desire to leave is getting stronger and im now seeking advice and support of friends, family and forums, im also for the first time prepping financially, saving money, copying documents, etc...but in summary im thinking maybe 3-6 more months and if its not better im done, no sense in dragging it out into year 3...


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> If you are/were in a relationship that was sexless/almost sexless, did things ever improve to a point where you were happy


when i left


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

We were only 8 months without sex before I realized we were headed to a sexless marriage. Before that it was less frequent for those 3.5 years.

Not once was our marriage headed for separation, we have a fabulous relationship and a strong marriage. We are best friends and always have had open communication.

The problem was me, as many of you know, I broke my neck 3.5 years ago. Had surgery, but I still have 2 remaining disc herniations, which leaves me disabled and in pain 24/7. I went from running 36 miles a week to resting on the bed/couch most the day. It took me 2-3 years to accept this pain and not become depressed due to not being able to run.

I still am able to do some housework, cook and take care of the kids. I realized what I was doing and I needed a change. Also my own drive had kicked in, so I think this has a part of my turn around.

I thought back and I realized how much effort my husband puts into our marriage and raising our children. I felt I was being selfish. I did some research online, which actually brought me here too. I was looking for ways to make myself a better wife. How did I let this slip away? 

I had no clue how important sex is to a man until I did a little research. Not once did my husband show disappointment when I turned him down. My husband does not ever want to hurt my feelings.

I apologized to him for the past, he did not even see a reason for the apology. Now my drive is stronger then his, but I do my best not to come off as pushy. 

My husband and I have the strongest bond any couple can have. It's indescribable how good it feels to have this bond. Daily we take time for each other and show affection. We brought the flirting back into our lives. We have fun, we laugh together. We have daily conversations. 

We both work at meeting each others needs, yet giving each other our space we need. We are a very strong family unit. Sex is the staple of a good marriage. It creates a bond like no other. I promised my husband we would not head that direction again. I pray that my drive stays this way for a very long time.

I'm always looking for ways to better myself as a wife. My husbands deserves it.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

My wife and I go through peaks and valleys with this. There's been times when its been bad, over the holidays it was once a month (which for us is bad). And after having the talk _again_, its been better (4x in Feb). We've hit these cycles before.
We went though real dry spells when she was pregnant, but that was different. I can't speak on the kind of horror case scenarios I read on these boards about months or years at a time. I don't know if that kind of thing ever recovers.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Toshiba2020 said:


> There are other issues, shes a workaholic and overly close with her family, like see them multiple hours a day close but i can tolerate everything but the sexless marriage. Ive been to marriage therapy (went by myself as she refused to go) but it didnt help, she will make an effort every month or two but its short lived and were back to where we were. At this point im ready to cut my losses, im young, good sense of humor, good looking, athletic, have a good career and feel like im a decent catch for most young women out there...well other than ill be divorced. The first year i never considered divorce as i wanted to give it time and make it work, now deep into year two im starting to fear it will never change. I have been on and off the fence for the last 6 months but the desire to leave is getting stronger and im now seeking advice and support of friends, family and forums, im also for the first time prepping financially, saving money, copying documents, etc...but in summary im thinking maybe 3-6 more months and if its not better im done, no sense in dragging it out into year 3...


I'm just asking, but have you told her in no uncertain terms. Not when your angry or tense - but during a normal talk. That if things don't get better, you are filing for divorce. Just curious.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Toshiba.....you have no children? Get out NOW. 
Please be assured, that if your wife has sex issues now, you can almost guarantee it will get worse after children....and it will be so much more difficult for you to get out.

Lots of men (and women) on here will agree.

Run Toshiba Run!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Go to Married Man Sex Life for great information on getting more sex from your wife.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Mostly you're fourth or fifth on her list of things. Occasionally third. Very rarely second. So no, that's about as good as you'll get.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

effess said:


> I'm just asking, but have you told her in no uncertain terms. Not when your angry or tense - but during a normal talk. That if things don't get better, you are filing for divorce. Just curious.


Yes, i have said that if she didnt go to MC with me i would, she went one time and refused to go, after which things improved slightly for about a month then the intimacy stopped again. She keeps making excuses like being over worked, but even when she works normal hours or when she took 3 weeks vacation in december it didnt change anything. Recently she demanded we buy a house as that would make us more of a family and she would be happy, as a predicted shes not happier, still not in the mood for sex and the additional chores of owning a home have been taken on by me as she is usually to tired, stressed or busy to deal with it.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

7737 said:


> Toshiba.....you have no children? Get out NOW.
> Please be assured, that if your wife has sex issues now, you can almost guarantee it will get worse after children....and it will be so much more difficult for you to get out.
> 
> Lots of men (and women) on here will agree.
> ...


No children, 10 gold fish, have a house, two cars, tv and some furniture. Went to couples theray by myself as she wouldnt go, he didnt seem to optimistic but that was during year one and i wanted to stick it out but at about year 1.5 im at the end of what i can handle and really just want out and to be happy. Ill stop hijacking this thread though, sorry to the creator


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Go to Married Man Sex Life for great information on getting more sex from your wife.


:iagree:

While never sexless, we were at once every 10-14 days. I started working on myself and found this book. Made a huge difference for me and her attraction to me. It really helped me to be a better man and to be the husband that my wife needs. We are currently at 2-3 times per week.


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

Toshiba2020 said:


> No children, 10 gold fish, have a house, two cars, tv and some furniture. Went to couples therapy by myself as she wouldnt go, she didnt seem to optimistic but that was during year one and i wanted to stick it out but at about year 1.5 I'm at the end of what i can handle and really just want out and to be happy. Ill stop hijacking this thread though, sorry to the creator


No need to apologize at all. This sort of discussion is exactly what I was looking for!


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

wifeofhusband said:


> It was never quite sexless but low frequency. It improved when I decided that rather than thinking about what kind of sex I'd like to be having, I put aside those thoughts and just accepted what was.


So you just accepted that you would never have the sex life that you wanted? I can't do that.


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

I told my partner that a relationship without passion and intimacy is not what I want and if things don't improve, I will not stay. That conversation was 5 months ago and things are no different. If you ask me, that's an invitation to leave.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> I told my partner that a relationship without passion and intimacy is not what I want and if things don't improve, I will not stay. That conversation was 5 months ago and things are no different. If you ask me, that's an invitation to leave.


and the crazy part is after having multiple conversations and allowing time to change and trying to help them through it when you do leave they will somehow be shocked, its as if everything you ever said went in one ear and right out the other...


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## Chuckp47 (Nov 11, 2011)

They see no reason to change. You are not important enough to warrant change. My stbxw went through early menopause for 3 years with no dr visits or questioning it. She was actually glad as to her that signaled when she could stop "giving in" to me... Warning, she will "change" when you file for divorce. Don't get sucked in or do but keep the papers on file. It won't last long and shell go back to her old self. Once she does, go through with the divorce. Sorry to be blunt, just speaking from experience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## prudefemme29 (Mar 2, 2012)

Run run run. You have no kids so whats keeping you? If she has health issues then seek help otherwise run it never gets better


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

I have seen very few long terms success stories.

Most of the "successes" seem to arise from health changes. Either a low drive husband who responds to hormone treatment or a low drive woman who suddenly seems to have a hormone surge later in life.

My own view is that if someone is truly low drive (as opposed to HD but just not in the right direction) it is probably mostly physical for both men and women. It is more complicated in women but it seems many of the "complexities" could be just as easily explained by a lack of immediate physical desire. In other words the hornier you are, the simpler sex becomes.

There is almost no chance for a good sex life with a low drive person unless he or she is also a naturally "giving" person and has no body issues or a general discomfort with sex.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Lionel,
If what you say is true... then why does the MMSL seem to work so well? Those that have read the entire book, and taken it to heart.


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

Toshiba2020 said:


> and the crazy part is after having multiple conversations and allowing time to change and trying to help them through it when you do leave they will somehow be shocked, its as if everything you ever said went in one ear and right out the other...


Yes, I totally agree! When I made plans to leave in november, he was totally blown away and couldn't believe I would do such a thing. Did it cause our intimacy problems to improve? Nope, sure didn't!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

deejov said:


> Lionel,
> If what you say is true... then why does the MMSL seem to work so well? Those that have read the entire book, and taken it to heart.


It assumes certain reactions will almost inevitably happen - if you up your sex rank, your wife will want more sex due to the preselection effect; if you flirt with other women, your wife will want more sex for the same reason; if you take command your wife will want sex because she is turned on by shows of dominance over her; if you up the degree of aggression / roughness in sex your wife will be more turned on because women are turned on by physical strength and dominance etc etc.

Like penicillin, it works for most of the people most of the time, but it won't work for all of the people all of the time.

However, if you're with a partner who has never really wanted sex with anyone, at any time or has any kind of body or psychological issues, MMSL is like using penicillin on the flu virus - it ain't going to work!


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

deejov said:


> Lionel,
> If what you say is true... then why does the MMSL seem to work so well? Those that have read the entire book, and taken it to heart.


How do you know it works in the long term? 

It seems that most self-help books on just about any topic can make similar claims.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Ours has been improving over time. We're up to 1-2x a week from 1x a month. This is due to his weening from Paxil. He worries now, though, about being too quick. I try to assure him as best I can that it doesn't matter how quick it happens; we're relearning the whole sex thing at this point.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Ours has been improving over time. We're up to 1-2x a week from 1x a month. This is due to his weening from Paxil. He worries now, though, about being too quick. I try to assure him as best I can that it doesn't matter how quick it happens; we're relearning the whole sex thing at this point.


quick sex is better than no sex. it not about the duration or intensity but the bond it builds.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Exactly. And it's not really THAT quick, the way my H talks, you'd think he lasted 2 seconds. Not the case!


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## ARF (Jan 26, 2011)

Things have improved in my marriage sex wise. Over a year ago I posted about very long droughts in our marriage. During our first pregnancy we had sex once and then didn't have sex until our child was 10 months old. That made it over a year without sex. It was slow after that for the next few months. Things finally improved and we got pregnant again. Again it was a hard pregnancy on her and we had sex twice during the pregnancy then not again for three months after birth. We spent the next 5 to 6 months on about a once a month frequency. The past few months has been at once a week or so. Improvements have been gradual, but we have had dialogue the whole time. Even though we are at once a week, I don't feel like sex is ever off the table except for Illness, period, etc.

My wife finally told me 6 months ago what her issues were regarding the lack of sex we were having and it was her issue. It helped knowing that but wished I'd known sooner. Maybe our situation isn't the norm, but I have seen improvement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cupcake37 (Nov 19, 2011)

Hi- I don't think it ever does improve. My husband has never been interested in sex to be honest. As previous posters have said, we have talked and things improve for a short while but soon revert back to normal. I have two small children and don't want to leave him for this reason. Apart from the sex everything else is good. It seems selfish of me to leave him and deprive them of a good father just because of the lack of sex. I knew he was like this when I married him but he promised me things would improve. They haven't. If I didn't have two young children I would have left him by now. If I was in your position I would be looking to leave sooner rather than later, if you are not happy now it's only going to get worse!

Good luck with your decision
XX


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

My wife got into a fight w/ my son last night and hasn't uttered a single word to anyone since. It's a blessing but also creepy.


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## flnative (Jul 16, 2011)

We we've been together since HS. After marriage it was strictly once a week on Saturdays only. And hope something didn't happen to cause me to miss Saturday!!! Mostly consisted of HJs. It was this way for 10 years until I had enough. I did my own MMSL long before I'd heard of Athol. When I was done with fixing myself, I told her I was not happy with the frequency and things had to change. But I also helped her. Never threatened to leave, just told her things had to change. She had never Od so I suppose I don't blame her for the lack of enthusiasm. 

She came around and did what she needed to do and I figured out what I needed to do for her. 7 yrs now of daily sex and Os for everyone. Sometimes she just does things for me, but it's now always with love and enthusiasm. I wish I knew how to tell people what we did but I think you need to have both on board for it to work. 

We do have 3 kids and have not let that slow us down. It can be done.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

flnative said:


> We we've been together since HS. After marriage it was strictly once a week on Saturdays only. And hope something didn't happen to cause me to miss Saturday!!! Mostly consisted of HJs. It was this way for 10 years until I had enough. I did my own MMSL long before I'd heard of Athol. When I was done with fixing myself, I told her I was not happy with the frequency and things had to change. But I also helped her. Never threatened to leave, just told her things had to change. She had never Od so I suppose I don't blame her for the lack of enthusiasm.
> 
> She came around and did what she needed to do and I figured out what I needed to do for her. 7 yrs now of daily sex and Os for everyone. Sometimes she just does things for me, but it's now always with love and enthusiasm. I wish I knew how to tell people what we did but I think you need to have both on board for it to work.
> 
> We do have 3 kids and have not let that slow us down. It can be done.


Good news!

Now if you can only bottle it and patent it


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## vickyrose (Mar 2, 2012)

I have only been with my partner for 14 months, sex was great and he always made me feel sexy but now that we live together we have only had sex twice in nearly 4 months. i have spoken to him many times and told him how i feel and he seems to understand but nothing changes. its very frustrating and i now feel resentful towards him so he calls me moody. I could cry as i feel so sad, i feel incomplete but he seems happy just to cuddle and the spark has gone from him. i am only 40 and keep fit and look good so i am at a loss to know what to do? he says he will make it good again but never does, he goes shooting and talks about work and thats it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> It assumes certain reactions will almost inevitably happen - if you up your sex rank, your wife will want more sex due to the preselection effect; if you flirt with other women, your wife will want more sex for the same reason; if you take command your wife will want sex because she is turned on by shows of dominance over her; if you up the degree of aggression / roughness in sex your wife will be more turned on because women are turned on by physical strength and dominance etc etc.
> 
> Like penicillin, it works for most of the people most of the time, but it won't work for all of the people all of the time.
> 
> However, if you're with a partner who has never really wanted sex with anyone, at any time or has any kind of body or psychological issues, MMSL is like using penicillin on the flu virus - it ain't going to work!


I agree with a lot of this. I think MMSL is ideal for the situation where the husband and wife are reasonably happy and had a good sex life at some point, but life and routine has gotten in the way. The husband has gotten to “beta”, quit dating her and morphed into a father with no other interests rather than a man and a lover. The wife has become a mother, harried by the kids and dealing with them. Add to that the lack of newness, and the attraction that was there in the beginning has naturally waned. 

In this situation, which I think is very common (and was definitely my marriage), MMSL helps to get the man back and focused on the doing the things that attracted his wife in the first place, as well as the new things that will create attraction. It really promotes balance in the man between the harder edge that gets the woman’s attention and the nurturing acts necessary in a long term relationship.

Where I think it has less success is in the outliers. Whether that involves hormones, deep seated resentment, past abuse or psychological issues, the steps in MMSL are much less effective in that marriage for obvious reasons. That does not mean there is not value in improving yourself as a man. Improving yourself is always a worthwhile goal, as is acknowledging the reality that you can only control yourself. Even if your wife opts not to join you in that journey, you have the information and knowledge from which to make your own decision going forward.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I agree with a lot of this. I think MMSL is ideal for the situation where the husband and wife are reasonably happy and had a good sex life at some point, but life and routine has gotten in the way. <snip>


This is what I wanted to say - nice work, mush.


> Where I think it has less success is in the outliers. Whether that involves hormones, deep seated resentment, past abuse or psychological issues, the steps in MMSL are much less effective in that marriage for obvious reasons.


This is exactly right. The problem is that MMSL and its evangelists believe the number of outliers is small with everyone in the middle of the curve, whereas my experience suggests that the curve is pretty flat and has a lot of people out at the two ends. I'd add body image and weird expectations of human behaviour to the list as well.



> That does not mean there is not value in improving yourself as a man. Improving yourself is always a worthwhile goal, as is acknowledging the reality that you can only control yourself. Even if your wife opts not to join you in that journey, you have the information and knowledge from which to make your own decision going forward.


The idea that if it doesn't work you're in a better position to go forward, which _is_ a central tenet of the plan, seems rather lost in the "this works for everybody all the time and if it didn't work for you you're doing it wrong" background noise. The idea that someone might not want to move on, but wants what they had / expected to have with their own wife seems to be considered a mark of failure.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

MMSL works! Anyone who doubts it has never tried it.

Sex is a need. Just like affection, financial security, honesty, communication, etc. Barring a legitimate reason like a medical condition, if a spouse's needs are not being met then there is a problem that threatens the very foundation of the marriage.

Sex is a basic biological need for most men just like most women choose a man at least partially based on his ability to provide for her and her children. So if sex is taken off the table the man should be able to reduce or quit his job, there is a logical consequence of each decision.

The problem is that women generally do not understand how much men need sex and many times men do not understand how much women need affection and communication. It takes both parties trying to understand and accommodate the other to make a marriage work. When only one party is really making the effort the relationship breaks down.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> When only one party is really making the effort the relationship breaks down.


I have never quite worked out how MMSL makes a partner who doesn't G.A.S. want to make an effort.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Beowulf,
This is simply a false statement. If you married someone who mainly wanted security or something else, you will not get results until you file and even then you won't get much and it won't last until you repeat the walk out and in some cases not ben then


QUOTE=Beowulf;612399]MMSL works! Anyone who doubts it has never tried it.

Sex is a need. Just like affection, financial security, honesty, communication, etc. Barring a legitimate reason like a medical condition, if a spouse's needs are not being met then there is a problem that threatens the very foundation of the marriage.

Sex is a basic biological need for most men just like most women choose a man at least partially based on his ability to provide for her and her children. So if sex is taken off the table the man should be able to reduce or quit his job, there is a logical consequence of each decision.

The problem is that women generally do not understand how much men need sex and many times men do not understand how much women need affection and communication. It takes both parties trying to understand and accommodate the other to make a marriage work. When only one party is really making the effort the relationship breaks down.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> If you are/were in a relationship that was sexless/almost sexless, did things ever improve to a point where you were happy and glad you did not separate? If so, what brought about the improvement?


A REALIZATION on BOTH of our parts, AND a WILLINGNESS of BOTH of us to make things better for the other.. :smthumbup:

"The problem is that women generally do not understand how much men need sex and many times men do not understand how much women need affection and communication. It takes both parties trying to understand and accommodate the other to make a marriage work. When only one party is really making the effort the relationship breaks down."

VERY true. At least for us. She acknowledged what sex means to me, and realized that it's PART of my emotional connection. just as I acknowledged that SHE needs to not feel like EVERY time we cuddle, it leads to sex. now, we cuddle every night and I DONT always have the need for sex. And she in turn will initiate sex sometimes just for my need with no expectation of a return, and sometimes because the feeling is hers. there are times I please her with NOTHING in return. Now we have removed the expectations that sometimes inhibit. And in most cases, it ends up to being sex that ends in completion for each other. the Expectation removed made for more natural sex.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Beowulf,
> This is simply a false statement. If you married someone who mainly wanted security or something else, you will not get results until you file and even then you won't get much and it won't last until you repeat the walk out and in some cases not ben then
> 
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Most people do not understand what MMSL is. It does not promise that your current wife will become more attracted to you thereby bettering your sex life. What it does help with is making you the best you can be. It shows a different perspective on male/female relationships. Ultimately we cannot control anyone else. We can only control ourselves. If you become more confident and self assured most of the time your wife will see the improvements and react positively. If not, then you are in a better position to decide if you want to continue the marriage or not.

What I found was that it puts you in a mind frame that you aren't begging for sex all the time. Quite often if sex has been a long running issue the wife is "gun shy" while the husband is resentful. MMSL shows you how to remove those dynamics and it really puts things more at ease. I think if you are at wits end and have tried everything else what the heck have you got to lose.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I agree with a lot of this. I think MMSL is ideal for the situation where the husband and wife are reasonably happy and had a good sex life at some point, but life and routine has gotten in the way. The husband has gotten to “beta”, quit dating her and morphed into a father with no other interests rather than a man and a lover. The wife has become a mother, harried by the kids and dealing with them. Add to that the lack of newness, and the attraction that was there in the beginning has naturally waned.
> 
> In this situation, which I think is very common (and was definitely my marriage), MMSL helps to get the man back and focused on the doing the things that attracted his wife in the first place, as well as the new things that will create attraction. It really promotes balance in the man between the harder edge that gets the woman’s attention and the nurturing acts necessary in a long term relationship.
> 
> Where I think it has less success is in the outliers. Whether that involves hormones, deep seated resentment, past abuse or psychological issues, the steps in MMSL are much less effective in that marriage for obvious reasons. That does not mean there is not value in improving yourself as a man. Improving yourself is always a worthwhile goal, as is acknowledging the reality that you can only control yourself. Even if your wife opts not to join you in that journey, you have the information and knowledge from which to make your own decision going forward.


So what you are saying is that MMSL doesn't work in a marriage where one party never wanted or wants sex. Then my question is why the heck did they get married in the first place? I personally would not marry a woman that felt sex wasn't at all important. What man would?


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

averaged sex once every 6 months for 3 years which is ridiculous at 28 years old, she has depression which isnt good.

but chooses to go nightclubbing rather than have sex with me, we seperated a month ago after being together 5 years and married 18 months.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> So what you are saying is that MMSL doesn't work in a marriage where one party never wanted or wants sex. Then my question is why the heck did they get married in the first place? I personally would not marry a woman that felt sex wasn't at all important. What man would?


They projected a sense of sexuality out of it being expected of them, or because that was the only way to get a husband, or out of a duty or using the promise that "it will get better once we're married" or a slew of other things. You don't need to read many threads on here to find a lot of people married on the hope and the expectation of a varied and fulfilling sex life and found it never happened.


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## The Chimp (Feb 14, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> So what you are saying is that MMSL doesn't work in a marriage where one party never wanted or wants sex. Then my question is why the heck did they get married in the first place? I personally would not marry a woman that felt sex wasn't at all important. What man would?


Because she liked sex but now she says that ladies don't do sex except under protest, and MMSL was no use at all. She is immune to changes in sex rank, improvements in me, ten second kisses and everything.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> They projected a sense of sexuality out of it being expected of them, or because that was the only way to get a husband, or out of a duty or using the promise that "it will get better once we're married" or a slew of other things. You don't need to read many threads on here to find a lot of people married on the hope and the expectation of a varied and fulfilling sex life and found it never happened.


Then they deceived a person into marrying them and the marriage is null and void. Follow the advice in MMSL and find a new wife/husband.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

The Chimp said:


> Because she liked sex but now she says that ladies don't do sex except under protest, and MMSL was no use at all. She is immune to changes in sex rank, improvements in me, ten second kisses and everything.


Chimp 

And you're wife has expressly told you your are at best a third rate man in your life behind her father and grandfather. She has zero respect for you.

I'm not sure what remains puzzling about your situation for you. A good sex life is not going to happen with your wife. If physical separation is not something you want to consider, you need to mentally move on.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Then they deceived a person into marrying them and the marriage is null and void. Follow the advice in MMSL and find a new wife/husband.


This is easy to say, but once you get joint mortgages and negative equity on board, never mind children, it's not so easy to do. And let's face it, out in the "real world", not one person in a hundred will take your side if you divorce over this.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

right, most people would just cheat and then blame that on you instead.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

B,
We are completely in agreement that MMSL is a solid "self improvement" tool. It may help your marriage, or not depending on your partner. It may also help you realize that you should end your marriage. 





Beowulf said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most people do not understand what MMSL is. It does not promise that your current wife will become more attracted to you thereby bettering your sex life. What it does help with is making you the best you can be. It shows a different perspective on male/female relationships. Ultimately we cannot control anyone else. We can only control ourselves. If you become more confident and self assured most of the time your wife will see the improvements and react positively. If not, then you are in a better position to decide if you want to continue the marriage or not.

What I found was that it puts you in a mind frame that you aren't begging for sex all the time. Quite often if sex has been a long running issue the wife is "gun shy" while the husband is resentful. MMSL shows you how to remove those dynamics and it really puts things more at ease. I think if you are at wits end and have tried everything else what the heck have you got to lose.[/QUOTE]


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## 5stringpicker (Feb 11, 2012)

Like my brother David says, "your sex life will improve when you get separate beds. Hers in one town and yours in another."


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

5stringpicker said:


> Like my brother David says, "your sex life will improve when you get separate beds. Hers in one town and yours in another."


lol
that wasnt far enough.
i was glad when she moved to another state :smthumbup:
now if she will just stay there. :/


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

brendan said:


> averaged sex once every 6 months for 3 years which is ridiculous at 28 years old, she has depression which isnt good.
> 
> but chooses to go nightclubbing rather than have sex with me, we seperated a month ago after being together 5 years and married 18 months.


sounds exactly like my situation except it has been once every 6 weeks instead of 6 months


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## u751904 (Mar 9, 2012)

coming off the pill, wearing dresses / skirts and suspenders every day, dress like a woman felt like a woman. I think about sex most of the time now, have lots of sex with my husband however our relationship isn't that good (another reason!). We had a very big dry spell, I honestly think this was stress and the pill. The later being a big thing for me. My doc said it shouldn't have been the case but I am sure that's what did it. I also fantasise.


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## sixteen miles (Jan 5, 2011)

I hate to say it but once it settles in, it never changes, it really only gets worse. My wife has not had sex with me or shown any interest in over 5 years. She has a mysterious "medical" condition that has never even been seen by nor diagnosed by any doctor.

I am slim and trim, still decent looking, in good shape, sole provider for the family, work hard, never strayed, always reliable, work around the house, do all the shopping, clean cook etc. etc, that is where I went wrong. If I had been a "mystery" man she would be chasing after me like a wild woman.

We have been married for 30 years and I just accept my fate as being what it is. I call it as I see it, run when you can!


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## Shiksa (Mar 2, 2012)

I guess my husband and I are not the norm. Been married 18 years. We had a drought of about 10 years. Life got in the way for both of us. We share the blame for letting our intimacy drop off completely. This November I took the bull by the horns and relentlessly pursued my husband. It started with a date night (which we did not do for many years due to to kids and finances) and each day I initiated until I got his mojo going. Once things got going again, we both realized what was missing in our marriage and don't want to loose it again.

My kids even commented on how nice it seems around the house. More love and compassion is in the air. He is now facing a layoff next week, and our closeness has certainly made the situation easier. We have promised not to let life get in the way again and are making US a priority once again. It does take two to tango and if you both are not willing to put forth your best effort, you will be doomed.
Got to go find my husband...


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> If you are/were in a relationship that was sexless/almost sexless, did things ever improve to a point where you were happy and glad you did not separate? If so, what brought about the improvement?


Not in my situation. I tried my best to become a better man and husband but my ex-wife was simply not interested so I finally gave up and filed for divorce.


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

chaos said:


> Not in my situation. I tried my best to become a better man and husband but my ex-wife was simply not interested so I finally gave up and filed for divorce.


So was the lack of sex the #1 issue between you and your wife? Did you get along well otherwise?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> So was the lack of sex the #1 issue between you and your wife? Did you get along well otherwise?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We seldom fought but in the last years of our marriage, we were more like roommates than husband and wife.

The lack of sex and her behavior with regards to it were the #1 issue, it showed me quite clearly that she she simply didn't care about my emotional well being.

I was never an abusive husband and I did my best to meet all of her emotional needs because I loved her and wanted to make her happy but in time I saw that the love she had for me was nowhere close to the love I had for her.

When I married my ex-wife, I did not do so with the intention of being turned into a brotherly figure.


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

Wow, I could have written those words to describe my relationship! How long were you married? When people asked what happened between you two, what explanation did you offer? Did you tell them the truth. I guess I am afraid of being unfairly judged for ending a 5 year relationship because I wasn't getting laid enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mike_O (Aug 3, 2011)

My theory is: Without deliberate effort, we turn into our parents!

This really kicks in about age 50+ - so for you youngsters, there is some time to change. But for us older folks, it seems we have less time and less desire to make changes in our genetic predisposition.

Every day I see my spouse becoming more like her mother (and father) and she sees it too while I am becoming like my father (and mother).

To apply this to the sexual aspect of relationships is difficult because we often prefer to not think about our parents as sexual but if we can get past that hurdle I think there are great insights to be discovered about why we are the way we are.

Bottom line: If the parents were sexually active (with each other) then we most likely will and if the parents worked on their relationship (with each other) then we most likely will.

Hope that helps!


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

Mike_O said:


> My theory is: Without deliberate effort, we turn into our parents!
> 
> This really kicks in about age 50+ - so for you youngsters, there is some time to change. But for us older folks, it seems we have less time and less desire to make changes in our genetic predisposition.
> 
> ...


Well that's great news for me! My partner's parents hate each other and haven't slept in the same bed for over 20 years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> Wow, I could have written those words to describe my relationship! How long were you married? When people asked what happened between you two, what explanation did you offer? Did you tell them the truth. I guess I am afraid of being unfairly judged for ending a 5 year relationship because I wasn't getting laid enough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Married for 5 years.

I simply tell people "I'd rather not discuss it". You'd be surprise how effective this courteous way of saying "mind your own business" truly is.


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## ConfusedGuy82 (Nov 18, 2011)

chaos said:


> Married for 5 years.
> 
> I simply tell people "I'd rather not discuss it". You'd be surprise how effective this courteous way of saying "mind your own business" truly is.


Haha yeah, I guess that would do the trick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It is what it is. A man can buy a different woman a house every few years or he can learn to appreciate and accept the one he's got. My relationship with my wife is much better because I just quit expecting sex, pretty much quit approaching her for sex, quit focusing on what we didn't have and learned to appreciate the other positive aspects of the relationship. For instance, I haven't been on this forum in months. Reading this stuff just made be feel bitter and it didn't change anything. A guy who has lost his legs can fixate on not being able to run or he can learn to appreciate what's left. When I quit moping around about sex, she actually stepped up her game a little in that department. We still aren't burning up the sheets, but life is far more bearable for both of us. Sex is only one way to express love. There are many others and they aint bad.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> It is what it is. A man can buy a different woman a house every few years or he can learn to appreciate and accept the one he's got. My relationship with my wife is much better because I just quit expecting sex, pretty much quit approaching her for sex, quit focusing on what we didn't have and learned to appreciate the other positive aspects of the relationship. For instance, I haven't been on this forum in months. Reading this stuff just made be feel bitter and it didn't change anything. A guy who has lost his legs can fixate on not being able to run or he can learn to appreciate what's left. When I quit moping around about sex, she actually stepped up her game a little in that department. We still aren't burning up the sheets, but life is far more bearable for both of us. Sex is only one way to express love. There are many others and they aint bad.


Hi unbelievable ~

Must be total serendipity - as I was thinking about how you and your wife were doing just the other day. 

I am happy that things have been progressing along a bit better and that you have a sense of peace about things.

Wishing you and your wife all the best.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ConfusedGuy82 said:


> When people asked what happened between you two, what explanation did you offer? Did you tell them the truth. I guess I am afraid of being unfairly judged for ending a 5 year relationship because I wasn't getting laid enough.


Why do you care what people think? This is a serious question, not rhetorical.

You are certainly free to avoid the question or invoke privacy. But, you need to rid yourself of any shame you might have regarding common needs (sexual and otherwise). If you can't feel good enough about asking for what you need, how do you plan to assert yourself and not be disregarded in any future relationship?

You should not have to beg, constantly challenge, etc. to have your needs met. But you might have to simply stand up for yourself from time to time; relationships are simply that way. If you cannot, you are open to being benignly ignored or taken advantage in future relationships.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> ...because I just quit expecting sex, pretty much quit approaching her for sex, quit focusing on what we didn't have and learned to appreciate the other positive aspects of the relationship.


No disrespect intended here but...just because one spouse decides they don't want/need sex anymore, the other is supposed to accept it and deal with it and move on? Does that mean if I decide to stop working and we have zero income, she's supposed to accept it and live with it?

We had sex before we got married, after we got married, and before we had kids. Then I got tossed under the bus. No...if she choses to live without sex, that's her choice. But it affects me greatly. It's a deal breaker. Period.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

BeachGuy said:


> No disrespect intended here but...just because one spouse decides they don't want/need sex anymore, the other is supposed to accept it and deal with it and move on? Does that mean if I decide to stop working and we have zero income, she's supposed to accept it and live with it?
> 
> We had sex before we got married, after we got married, and before we had kids. Then I got tossed under the bus. No...if she choses to live without sex, that's her choice. But it affects me greatly. It's a deal breaker. Period.


What happens if you are hit by a bus or develop some physical or psychological problem that makes you unable to perform sexually? Would you no longer be a human being, deserving of love? My wife doesn't like feeling nonsexual. She's as much a victim of this mess as I am. Lots of husbands have to visit their wives in prison, in hospitals, mental institutions, or in cemetaries. My wife doesn't blow my skirt up 24/7 but she's alive, free, real, and mine. Sooner or later, we all lose our spouses. When that day comes, I doubt you will primarily miss the sex.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> What happens if you are hit by a bus or develop some physical or psychological problem that makes you unable to perform sexually? Would you no longer be a human being, deserving of love? My wife doesn't like feeling nonsexual. She's as much a victim of this mess as I am. Lots of husbands have to visit their wives in prison, in hospitals, mental institutions, or in cemetaries. My wife doesn't blow my skirt up 24/7 but she's alive, free, real, and mine. Sooner or later, we all lose our spouses. When that day comes, I doubt you will primarily miss the sex.


Actually, among the things I would miss is that my wife found me to be an important part of her life and that she wanted to make me happy. If she knew I was interested in sex and refused (with no reasonable explanation other than she did not want to), I would wonder how important I really was and how much my happiness actually meant to her.


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## Cupcake37 (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry to say no. Things would improve for a short time and then quite quickly revert back to normal. My husband isn't intersted in sex and has used every excuse in the book to get out of doing it. I have been more than patient with him over the years. I finally decided that I was not going to spend the next 15 years not having sex so I found a special frined to fill the void. Yes, I am not proud of what I am doing but at last I get to have a physical relationship with a man, something which I have been yearning for. It makes life easier, I don't feel so irritated by my husband because I am having sex. Part of me hates what he has done to us and just because he doesn't want sex doesn't mean I should. I would leave him but we have two small children and that isn't an option at the moment. I don't know if sexless marriages ever improve. I have read lots of similar posts where people say they see a short term improvement but then things just go back to normal.

XX


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Cupcake37 said:


> Sorry to say no. Things would improve for a short time and then quite quickly revert back to normal. My husband isn't intersted in sex and has used every excuse in the book to get out of doing it. I have been more than patient with him over the years. I finally decided that I was not going to spend the next 15 years not having sex so I found a special frined to fill the void. Yes, I am not proud of what I am doing but at last I get to have a physical relationship with a man, something which I have been yearning for. It makes life easier, I don't feel so irritated by my husband because I am having sex. Part of me hates what he has done to us and just because he doesn't want sex doesn't mean I should. I would leave him but we have two small children and that isn't an option at the moment. I don't know if sexless marriages ever improve. I have read lots of similar posts where people say they see a short term improvement but then things just go back to normal.
> 
> XX


You should fess up to your husband about your affair and let him have the choice of whether to stay married - he doesn't seem to have been given a choice as to whether he was willing to participate in an open relationship.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> What happens if you are hit by a bus or develop some physical or psychological problem that makes you unable to perform sexually? Would you no longer be a human being, deserving of love? My wife doesn't like feeling nonsexual. She's as much a victim of this mess as I am. Lots of husbands have to visit their wives in prison, in hospitals, mental institutions, or in cemetaries. My wife doesn't blow my skirt up 24/7 but she's alive, free, real, and mine. Sooner or later, we all lose our spouses. When that day comes, I doubt you will primarily miss the sex.


well said....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> What happens if you are hit by a bus or develop some physical or psychological problem that makes you unable to perform sexually? Would you no longer be a human being, deserving of love? My wife doesn't like feeling nonsexual. She's as much a victim of this mess as I am. Lots of husbands have to visit their wives in prison, in hospitals, mental institutions, or in cemetaries. My wife doesn't blow my skirt up 24/7 but she's alive, free, real, and mine. Sooner or later, we all lose our spouses. When that day comes, I doubt you will primarily miss the sex.


I don't feel like working every day or going shopping with my wife. Soemtimes I don't like having to talk to her about feelings and emotions and the kids. So should I play the poor victim and refuse to give any of those things to my wife? Not if I value her happiness and my marriage. So why does she get a pass on doing things for you?


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't feel like working every day or going shopping with my wife. Soemtimes I don't like having to talk to her about feelings and emotions and the kids. So should I play the poor victim and refuse to give any of those things to my wife? Not if I value her happiness and my marriage. So why does she get a pass on doing things for you?


I dont think that is what he meant....


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I dont think that is what he meant....


If true, clarification is in order, but I am not sure why I have not read his response correctly. I have not read his every post, but what he has written hear suggests a wfie who does not want to feel unsexual, but since she does feel that way, has little or no sex with him. Absent real reasons (sickness, an accident, etc.), merely not wanting to would not be acceptable to me.


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## Cupcake37 (Nov 19, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> You should fess up to your husband about your affair and let him have the choice of whether to stay married - he doesn't seem to have been given a choice as to whether he was willing to participate in an open relationship.


What does he expect, because if it was the other way around I would be concerned about him cheating if I was making him go without sex for years at a time. What about me having to live in a sexless marriage for the past 10 years? I would love to have sex with my husband but he isn't interested, so what am I meant to do, never have sex again? I am 37 not 97! I have two small children and would leave him if it wasn't for them. Although he's not interested in me, he is an amazing father and I could never split the family up.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Actually, among the things I would miss is that my wife found me to be an important part of her life and that she wanted to make me happy. If she knew I was interested in sex and refused (with no reasonable explanation other than she did not want to), I would wonder how important I really was and how much my happiness actually meant to her.


The key word is reasonable....varies a lot...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cupcake37 (Nov 19, 2011)

*Dean* said:


> Most women can't continue having sex with a man without developing feelings for him.
> How are you going to not have feelings for this man?
> I would think that feeling would grow stronger and pull you two together at some point in the future.


Yes, you are right, I do have feelings for him. He was a very good friend for 6mths before things progressed.I wouldn't be able to sleep with him if I didn't feel anything for him. I have been seeing him for 18 months and we are both in exactly the same situation. He is a very good friend and I trust him completely. Neither of us is prepared to do anything to change /hurt our childrens lives. We both want the same thing. I have no intention of leaving my husband. Since meeting him it has actually made things at home more bearable. I know a lot of people won't agree with what I am doing , I don't either, would rather my husband wanted sex with me, but please don't judge me until you too have lived with a man with no sex for years.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Cupcake37 said:


> Yes, you are right, I do have feelings for him. He was a very good friend for 6mths before things progressed.I wouldn't be able to sleep with him if I didn't feel anything for him. I have been seeing him for 18 months and we are both in exactly the same situation. He is a very good friend and I trust him completely. Neither of us is prepared to do anything to change /hurt our childrens lives. We both want the same thing. I have no intention of leaving my husband. Since meeting him it has actually made things at home more bearable. I know a lot of people won't agree with what I am doing , I don't either, would rather my husband wanted sex with me, but please don't judge me until you too have lived with a man with no sex for years.


That was how my previous relationship went. Stayed together for the children, but I eventually was living with a roommate who was the baby momma and had my needs met elsewhere. I learned that wasn't a good way to live and I wanted the whole package. I left that relationship and thought I married the real deal. Unfortunately, I'm back to this and I don't want to settle for two women in my life. if things don't change I am going to move on (hopefully the right way this time). I don't judge you, people do what they have to, to survive. For me I learned through my experience that what I need is the full deal or nothing. I've limped along and settled for less than I deserve for too long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> What happens if you are hit by a bus or develop some physical or psychological problem that makes you unable to perform sexually? Would you no longer be a human being, deserving of love?


That is not even close to the same thing. You are talking about an actual physical inability to perform. Of course most of us would be understanding in this event.

What most of us on TAM talk about are instances where our spouses are perfectly capable of meeting our needs but simply choose not to. That attitude, more than the lack of sex per se, is the deal breaker.

If you can accept your wife the way she is without complaint, that's fine. Some of us would prefer if not insist our spouses do the hard work to resolve the obstacles to sex, and that is perfectly ok as well.

In your case, your wife could choose to have sex with you for any number of reasons, including (1) your wants and needs should count just as much as hers, and (2) evidence seems to show that doing it more stimulates a woman's sex drive (so she's making the problem worse by refusing to engage you).

We might not be able to prevent feeling a certain way (about sex or anything else), but we are thinking beings who can rise above instinct to behave better. You just have to make the right choice.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

DTO said:


> We might not be able to prevent feeling a certain way (about sex or anything else), but we are thinking beings who can rise above instinct to behave better. You just have to make the right choice.



That's true. But isn't it also equally true that our need to be sexual and connect with our partner deserves to be honored. I have come to accept that my needs are important also. I didn't think I was entitled or deserved to ask just a few weeks ago. I was just angry from years of rejections and disappointments. 

It's not like I am asking my wife to do anything morally or ethically wrong. I think one should be able to rise above the temporary feeling and actively express your love to your partner. If your not feeling it, stopping until you do never changes things for the better. 

I had a sports car until I traded it in for a family van recently. It was my work commute car. It had all of the horsepower I've always wanted since I was old enough to druel at muscle cars. Driving it was a dream come true and I cherished every minute I had it. I treated it right, took care of it and didn't treat it like a piece of property. I did not abuse the responsibility of owning a high performance vehicle. No speeding tickets or reckless driving. 

My point is this. If in my situation, my wife opened herself up to me and said "Im yours to do with as you see fit", I would be understanding and meet her halfway. I would ask her if she's in the mood. I'd ask her if she's open to me putting her in the mood. I'd even be sensitive enough to not ask but be what she needs on a long or bad day. Right now, I'm not entrusted or given the opportunity to show that I'm not a sex fiend who doesn't care about her feelings.

I think women have been taught through popular culture that they must FEEL it or they shouldn't do it. Sex has to be something from a dime store romance novel or be the culmination of a torrid romance like a lifetime movie. No goosebumps, no sex. 

I think women are taught that opening themselves up to a man when they aren't in the mood is somehow a form of forced sex and old fashioned. Obligations are only one sided. Men must romance women, women hold the keys to the bedroom. We can't expect or demand that our partner meets our needs, that's misogynistic. In reality, I think our culture has played a larger role in the disintegration of marriage/families by insisting that traditional understanding of obligations/commitments were wrong.

A good man is going to take care of his wife. A good wife is going to take care of her husband. Fight about anything else, raising kids, religion, politics, tv shows, etc. Sometimes a good argument leads to really hot sex. The bedroom should always be a place that's open, inviting and a haven from the crazy world are trying to survive in, like a lifetime movie. Except, it should always be there every time you open the door, not just because everything else went 100 percent right that day. Am I completely off base here?


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> What happens if you are hit by a bus or develop some physical or psychological problem that makes you unable to perform sexually? Would you no longer be a human being, deserving of love? My wife doesn't like feeling nonsexual. She's as much a victim of this mess as I am. Lots of husbands have to visit their wives in prison, in hospitals, mental institutions, or in cemetaries. My wife doesn't blow my skirt up 24/7 but she's alive, free, real, and mine. Sooner or later, we all lose our spouses. When that day comes, I doubt you will primarily miss the sex.


You're not comparing apples-to-apples. You're referring to accidents and mental illnesses. I never said she wasn't a human being nor that she didn't deserve love. By any means. I said if it becomes un-important to her (and she's ok with that and has no desire to be different), that doesn't mean I have to accept that.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Unbelievable - you have a point, albeit a small point. However, you cannot go through life thinking 'better not have a bottle of wine tonight...my liver might pack up and I'll die'...

What about when YOU are on your death bed...Do you want to lie there in your final moments thinking 'wow! I had a great life, I loved well and was loved well and by many'....or you lie there thinking 'why the hell didnt I get out out in my 40's and had a life with a partner who fulfilled me in every way'...and feeling bitter?

This is the only life we have. The ONLY thing you can guarantee in life is that we will ALL die sometime. Make the most of what you have....and if it isnt enough for you, seek it elsewhere.

Regarding injury, illness etc.... Say the marriage is perfectly healthy, both partioes are happy with their sex life (call it 2-3 times a week)....wife gets injured/ill etc which means she in incapapble of any form of sex....what should the man do?

I believe he should look after his wife (until death us do part etc)...BUT, the husband also has a life to lead. 

I know many many people on here will disagree with me, but I feel that in a situation where the wife is unable (through no fault of her own) to give her husband any form of sex, it would be 'acceptable' for the husband to 'get' sex elsewhere if he so wished...hopefully with the blessing of his wife.

The same thing goes vice versa.

Are there any people on TAM, I wonder, in that situation?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Toshiba2020 said:


> and the crazy part is after having multiple conversations and allowing time to change and trying to help them through it when you do leave they will somehow be shocked...


IME it's not so much shock as indignation. The refusers tend to make temporary changes (and small ones at that) and tend to assign more value than is warranted. It's like they are offended at you expecting significant permanent change.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*The Good Wife*

Tall,
My current situation - which has persisted on and off for years, but has been almost 100 percent this way for 6+ months now - is this:
- My W has chronic inflammation/irritation 
- That condition not only precludes intercourse but makes it such that contact in that area does not feel good
- So lets accept that not only is reaching the rapture generally not possible, but even the highly pleasurable non-rapture stuff is ruled out

And yet - where the two of us take this. 
Me: I try to be very aware of how easy it would be to cross that line separating loving your W and feeling genuine desire to be with her (which I feel daily), and being selfish. 
Her: She tells me that she wants to please me. And several times a week we connect in what is sexually a very one sided encounter. I do any and all things to make the "sex-lite" experience as enjoyable as possible for her. And I do a lot of non-sexual touch/affection/massage. 

As for me, I feel like I won the "wife lottery". If this isn't love, what is? 

And when I have my moments of pure beta anxiety and I apologize to her with "I am sorry for being so tiresome" - she looks puzzled and says "what"? She isn't puzzled. She is just pretending - as she is not willing to acknowledge the concept that my desire could be tiresome. 

I guess all that nice stuff I do because I love my W, really does make an impression. 



Tall Average Guy said:


> If true, clarification is in order, but I am not sure why I have not read his response correctly. I have not read his every post, but what he has written hear suggests a wfie who does not want to feel unsexual, but since she does feel that way, has little or no sex with him. Absent real reasons (sickness, an accident, etc.), merely not wanting to would not be acceptable to me.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I doubt many LD partners could articulate why they are LD. They just are. A mental problem, brain chemistry, or hormonal issue can be every bit as debilitating an obvious physical injury. If my wife was deceitful, cruel, dishonest, dispassionate in all other areas of her life, I might conclude that she was just deliberately withholding. She's the most honest person I know. She's got unbelievable compassion and doesn't have a selfish bone in her body. Knowing that, I have to logically conclude that any withholding of sex is unintentional, out of character, and beyond her unaided control. When I got married, I didn't marry a vagina, but a complete person. I wasn't guaranteed any specific number of sexual encounters with her. There was no promise that either of us would remain healthy, mentally or otherwise. The deal was that I would be her husband and we'd deal with whatever the future brought. I happen to believe in God. She's His daughter and I'm one of His sons. He wants and knows what's best for both of us. Apparently, He figured it was a good idea for us to be together. He provided instructions on how I was to behave as a husband. There was no mention of me looking out for my own sexual pleasure. That was His instructions to her. Maybe He knew I needed to learn patience or maybe He knew I was overly interested in sex and missing more important things. Whatever. I trust that when I do what He says, things work out best for me. The proof is in the pudding and when I forgot my own needs and focused instead on serving her's, my relationship almost instantly got better and sex is better and more frequent now than it has been in over eight years. We're both more content, appreciate each other more, and basically where there was anger and chaos there is now love and peace. May not be everyone's answer, but you asked for clarification so I thought I'd try to explain my rationale.


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## reset button (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes....

It is a 180 since I stopped taking hormonal birth control pills.
Over time, the hormones build up in your system (2-3 years for me), and this caused me to go into a state of depression.

PLEASE, if she is taking pills, try another form of birth control for a few months. If you are not having sex what can hurt? Use condoms.

Within 2 weeks of stopping pills I felt "awake" again. I was happier, started losing weight, and my libido returned.
That was when I realized how bad it was, I truely didn't "get it" until I was off the pill. Is hard to imagine unless you lived it. You just feel that it is normal to not want sex when life is busy and you feel tired. Its not tiredness it is depression.

Imagine my husband's surprise when he went from sex once a month to me initiating sex daily.

Best wishes, hope this helps.


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## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> I doubt many LD partners could articulate why they are LD. They just are. A mental problem, brain chemistry, or hormonal issue can be every bit as debilitating an obvious physical injury. If my wife was deceitful, cruel, dishonest, dispassionate in all other areas of her life, I might conclude that she was just deliberately withholding. She's the most honest person I know. She's got unbelievable compassion and doesn't have a selfish bone in her body. Knowing that, I have to logically conclude that any withholding of sex is unintentional, out of character, and beyond her unaided control. When I got married, I didn't marry a vagina, but a complete person. I wasn't guaranteed any specific number of sexual encounters with her. There was no promise that either of us would remain healthy, mentally or otherwise. The deal was that I would be her husband and we'd deal with whatever the future brought. I happen to believe in God. She's His daughter and I'm one of His sons. He wants and knows what's best for both of us. Apparently, He figured it was a good idea for us to be together. He provided instructions on how I was to behave as a husband. There was no mention of me looking out for my own sexual pleasure. That was His instructions to her. Maybe He knew I needed to learn patience or maybe He knew I was overly interested in sex and missing more important things. Whatever. I trust that when I do what He says, things work out best for me. The proof is in the pudding and when I forgot my own needs and focused instead on serving her's, my relationship almost instantly got better and sex is better and more frequent now than it has been in over eight years. We're both more content, appreciate each other more, and basically where there was anger and chaos there is now love and peace. May not be everyone's answer, but you asked for clarification so I thought I'd try to explain my rationale.


wow...very well said....I agree almost totally...


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