# Am I being selfish?



## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum. I've been lurking around just reading posts for a while. I decided to sign up the other day. 

My boyfriend and I have been together for about 2 years exactly on the 7th. We have lived together for about the same amount of time. We live in Northern cali.

I am a college student enrolled in my second year. I am planning on transferring next year to so cal. If I get in of course. 

My boyfriend is alot older than me. This has never been a problem. He is already established in his tech career. So he can get a job basically anywhere.

The problem is he has two 2 year Olds from a previous marriage. Is it wrong for me to take him away from his children? He says he'll be able to only see them in the summer. The children are so young so he will have to go back up to nirthern california to see them. But I myself grew up barely seeing my parents and I now how that feels and dont want that for his children. My question is for people who are divorced and moved far away. How do you handle visitation? Would it be reasonable for him to stay here and me move and have a long distance relationship?


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

I would think that he would want to remain where he is to foster and maintain a healthy relationship and parenting time with his children. 

My daughter has recently started college and so my wife and I have been looking to move closer to her home area. I've found it quite difficult to find a job in the tech field in her home area that wouldn't be a major step backwards in my career. At my age, that's an issue. 10 years ago it's something I could easier recover from. But with aspirations of a normal'ish retirement age... Not so much.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

If you love him, you should love his children too.

if you love his children, you would go UP AND BEYOND to make sure that he is around them ALL THE TIME.

His kids need a father as much as they need a mother. Remove either one, and there will be consequences.

Selfish is a bit harsh, inconsiderate and unloving would probably be a better word.

PS. As you mature OP, your parenting neglect will become more and more apparent. When you have kids, it will be clear as day.

Parents being around their kids and active in kids life is EXTREMELY important.

Also, don't forget that long distance will kill ANY relationship. Don't ask how I know. I don't care if you skype or whatever, it's completely different. There is NOTHING like physical presence! I have a brother and father that live thousands of miles away, sure we talk, email, skype etc......without them here, I feel like I don't have a brother or father. Distance simply KILLED our relationships.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

How are you taking him away from his children? Are you demanding him to move with you? Is he very involved in his childrens' lives?

I would never dream of suggesting to a man to move away from his children unless he was already looking for career moves out of town.


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## Coco2014 (May 8, 2014)

You are still so young. There are still so many possibilities in your life. You don't know where you will end up live and who you will end up marry. Just do what is the best for yourself. He will choose what is the best for himself. If you two break up then just break up. It is meant to be that way.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

You're not even married to this guy and you are seriously considering making decisions -- decisions that will affect the long term choices available to you in your life -- on the basis of what, "you're going steady" with some guy.

There comes a point where you have to put your needs first and that's that.

Your boyfriend should have been considering the implications of dating someone not only so young but also in a very transitional, pivotal moment of her life. I would say that he is the selfish one here. Probably for 2 years, he's been patting himself on the back at he snagged some young thing. Well, young things these days do have minds of their own.

I can tell you, well, I look back at my years in university, there are times when I really regretted hooking up with a guy, missing out on the study time that I should have been doing; and also missing out on the social time that I also should have been doing ..... make no mistake here, our economy is so relationship oriented.

If you are really concerned about the childhood experiences of this man's children, you will release him from your clutches, let him get on with the task of parenting while you get on with firming the foundation of your life, your livelihood and practically everything else that will matter to you for the next 50 years at least.......


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Coco2014 said:


> You are still so young. There are still so many possibilities in your life. You don't know where you will end up live and who you will end up marry. Just do what is the best for yourself. He will choose what is the best for himself. If you two break up then just break up. It is meant to be that way.


Although I agree, if this guy really loves her he MIGHT follow......and even leave his kids behind.

It really all depends on how serious it is. But if OP is serious about her man, I don't care what age she is, she needs to be serious about his children.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



JustTired said:


> How are you taking him away from his children? Are you demanding him to move with you? Is he very involved in his childrens' lives?
> 
> I would never dream of suggesting to a man to move away from his children unless he was already looking for career moves out of town.


He has visits with the 4 times a week for a couple hours.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



Coco2014 said:


> You are still so young. There are still so many possibilities in your life. You don't know where you will end up live and who you will end up marry. Just do what is the best for yourself. He will choose what is the best for himself. If you two break up then just break up. It is meant to be that way.


We've talked about marriage and agreed we'd get married when I get my bachelor's. Since he is so much older than me I wanted to wait a while before we got married. So if and when I graduate we will have been together about 5 yrs.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Here's another way of looking at it-

Could you see yourself loving a man who is capable of deserting his kids? Bc what makes you the exception that he wouldn't do it to you? (aside from the MAJOR character flaws of being a deserter)

Thats the real question I would be worrying about. 

And yes- It is very selfish- if you're making him. And no it isn't if he goes willingly- which brings us back to - why would you want a man like that to begin with.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



NextTimeAround said:


> You're not even married to this guy and you are seriously considering making decisions -- decisions that will affect the long term choices available to you in your life -- on the basis of what, "you're going steady" with some guy.
> 
> There comes a point where you have to put your needs first and that's that.
> 
> ...


He said he willing to move with me. I'm just worries that when it comes down to it he will change his mind. I've lived in the bay area my whole life that's why I want to transfer somewhere in so cal. I don't have to go I could go to a college here.
When we met he was going through a divorce and still is. So he didn't want a relationship. But after a couple months of hanging out I fell in love with him and we decided we can make things work.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> Here's another way of looking at it-
> 
> Could you see yourself loving a man who is capable of deserting his kids? Bc what makes you the exception that he wouldn't do it to you? (aside from the MAJOR character flaws of being a deserter)
> 
> ...


He says that lots of people move away from their kids and still see them ie. The summer. I wanted to hear from people who do this or has done this.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> He says that lots of people move away from their kids and still see them ie. The summer. I wanted to hear from people who do this or has done this.


would you like it if you had two toddlers, during which you guys split- and he moved to a different state with his new woman...

Just trying to give you some perspective on the type of man who willingly moves away from his kids. It shows that he values feelings of love over family values. His kids are two- which is the same age as your relationship with him. Which is also how long you guys have lived together. 

It sounds like he likes to do things fast- right away- and do what feels good, instantly gratifies him- as opposed to dealing with responsibilities. But thats just an opinion i've formed from your posts thus far- and not in any way trying to purposely upset you.

Welcome to TAM btw


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## Coco2014 (May 8, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> We've talked about marriage and agreed we'd get married when I get my bachelor's. Since he is so much older than me I wanted to wait a while before we got married. So if and when I graduate we will have been together about 5 yrs.


You know you are not only marrying him, you are also marrying his kid? He and his kid is a whole package. So when you make any life decisions, you have to consider his kid as your own kid - if he is your husband.


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## Coco2014 (May 8, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> He said he willing to move with me. I'm just worries that when it comes down to it he will change his mind. I've lived in the bay area my whole life that's why I want to transfer somewhere in so cal. I don't have to go I could go to a college here.
> When we met he was going through a divorce and still is. So he didn't want a relationship. But after a couple months of hanging out I fell in love with him and we decided we can make things work.


You should slow down your relationship. Don't go so fast talking about getting married. I see some red-flags here. 

You are his rebound and you are talking about getting married...moving away. There are a lot of uncertainties there. I don't think both of you have a clear mind on this. 

Yes. Very much likely he will change his mind later - not only about moving away, also the feelings towards you.

Do yourself a favor and make the best decisions for yourself. Let him make decisions for himself. But if he really moves away with you, still no guarantee how long your relationship will last.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

A man who is quick to move from his family. Quick to jump into a relationship. Quick to move in together. Quick to move out of state. Is quick to do other things. 

You may think you're the exception. You may think two years is a long time and you're the one for him and he is for you. But two years is a blip on life's timeline. 

How old are you? I got married when I was 21 while I was about to graduate from Nyu. It was a decision I made in haste. You're still going to learn a lot of fundamentally good and bad things about him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I remember an episode of Millionaire Matchmaker, where the guy had a 15 year old daughter whom he'd never been around. He'd seen her a few times over the years, for a day or two at a time, but that was it. So here's this millionaire, GREAT catch, good looking, and he goes into his 'party' that the matchmaker sets up for him to meet new women. Every single time they show him talking with one of the women at the party the matchmaker had brought to the party, she gets around to asking him if he has kids; he replies yes, but I haven't seen her in 10 years. 

The face on those women - every single one of them - when he said that. It was priceless. They were all like 'Ooh, eligible rich bachelor!' and then he says that and they were all like 'WTH?! No WAY am I gonna keep talking to you, you deadbeat sorry excuse for a father!'

Not your situation, but you can see what people think of men who won't be there to help raise their kids. Children NEED their dads. That's all I'm gonna say.

Change that: I'll also say that you're too young to be this attached to someone. The mind doesn't stop growing and changing until around age 25. So what you think you know and want at 18 is far different from what you want at 23 and very far away from what you want at 30. 

IIWY, I would tell him you'll have a long-distance relationship while you finish college, and see if you guys stay interested in each other for the next 2 years. And, dating a man with kids (I assume his wife/woman was pregnant when they broke up?), you should know that he needs to live near his children for at least the next 15-16 years, if not longer.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> would you like it if you had two toddlers, during which you guys split- and he moved to a different state with his new woman...
> 
> Just trying to give you some perspective on the type of man who willingly moves away from his kids. It shows that he values feelings of love over family values. His kids are two- which is the same age as your relationship with him. Which is also how long you guys have lived together.
> 
> ...


His kids are 2 because he was going through divorce while the woman was pregnant. We made our relationship official that October than the kids were born that December. One from surrogate and one natural.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> A man who is quick to move from his family. Quick to jump into a relationship. Quick to move in together. Quick to move out of state. Is quick to do other things.
> 
> You may think you're the exception. You may think two years is a long time and you're the one for him and he is for you. But two years is a blip on life's timeline.
> 
> How old are you? I got married when I was 21 while I was about to graduate from Nyu. It was a decision I made in haste. You're still going to learn a lot of fundamentally good and bad things about him.


Thus is the longest relationship I've had. I'm 20.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Yes. It is definitely a real relationship for you and him. I'm not questioning that. But how do you feel about father that willingly moves away from his kids and how you feel if he did that to you. 

Also. This may be your longest relationship with him. But you're a blip in his life timeline. What is your longest relationship so far is not his longest relationship.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Ps. I do know a thing or two about dating men who are older. I'm from manhattan. And am a financial analyst in an investment bank that has about 30 stories of eligible bachelors. 

Men that date significantly younger women often have a similar set of dating characteristics. There are of course many exceptions.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Sooooooooo..... one from a surrogate and one natural, and he isn't REALLY there for either of those women, and sees the kids a few hours a week. AND he's willing to move away from them??? 

NOT really husband/dad material.

You are young, this is fun....and it would be harmless, if there weren't two little kids involved. Seeing them just in the summertime, makes him a schmuck daddy. 

Doesn't that make you wonder what kind of husband and father he would be with you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Seriously.

You're too young to be this serious with a man with this much baggage.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



SunnyT said:


> Sooooooooo..... one from a surrogate and one natural, and he isn't REALLY there for either of those women, and sees the kids a few hours a week. AND he's willing to move away from them???
> 
> NOT really husband/dad material.
> 
> ...


Both children are for the same women. His ex couldn't get pregnant so surrogate. Then a month later she conceived natural. So there a month apart. She sued for sole legal and physical custody with no visitation. He wants to be in there life more than a couple hours a week but he has had to fight tooth and nail with her for every hours he gotten with them. I know he will be a good father because I've seen him fight just to see his children.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

The worst thing a young person wants to be told is that they're too young to do something. 

With that said. Really. What everyone saying is correct. But you're going to have to find out for yourself. I really doubt you'd take good advice- regarding a relationship that is the longest one of your life as of far. 

So just prepare yourself in terms of expectations. I don't think you have the will power to not have a man follow you to a different state. But really- this is his fault. He is far older. And should know better. And because he doesn't. That's a huge no no. But you're too young to understand that. As far as you're concerned. Not only is he aWay from his kids- who also aren't your kids- but he's away from his ex wife. All pluses for you in your mind. 

Just prepare yourself. Because what he did to the ex wife. He will do to you.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Then it makes no sense that he would move away from them. No sense at all. 

Go to college where ever you want. But seriously, I'd break up with him and just figure that if it's meant to be, it's meant to be and you can' meet up with him two years later. Go have a life.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

I just asked him directly how he feel about not seeing the girls regularly if we move. He said he mostly wants to get away from the ex and by doing so it will force her to let him have the girls for longer periods of time. He said the couple hours a day isn't cutting it for him. He already feels like he's missing out on their lives. He says at least if we move he'll have them for long periods of time


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

SunnyT said:


> Then it makes no sense that he would move away from them. No sense at all.
> 
> Go to college where ever you want. But seriously, I'd break up with him and just figure that if it's meant to be, it's meant to be and you can' meet up with him two years later. Go have a life.



I was like that when I was op's age. Got married at 21. I understand her eagerness to get the love/marriage chapter of her life going. It was also the biggest heartbreak of my life and I carry scars with me today that have given me major commitment issues.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I just asked him directly how he feel about not seeing the girls regularly if we move. He said he mostly wants to get away from the ex and by doing so it will force her to let him have the girls for longer periods of time. He said the couple hours a day isn't cutting it for him. He already feels like he's missing out on their lives. He says at least if we move he'll have them for long periods of time


Girl, this man is poison. He is SO messed up. But you can't see it because you're too close to the problem. You'll find out eventually, hopefully NOT after he gets you pregnant, too.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> The worst thing a young person wants to be told is that they're too young to do something.
> 
> With that said. Really. What everyone saying is correct. But you're going to have to find out for yourself. I really doubt you'd take good advice- regarding a relationship that is the longest one of your life as of far.
> 
> ...


Not different state. We live in Northern California I want to go to southern California


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

sweetnothings4 said:


> His kids are 2 because he was going through divorce while the woman was pregnant. We made our relationship official that October than the kids were born that December. One from surrogate and one natural.


Here's what has me scratching my head from this post: He and his wife were expecting a child by surrogate. I assume she, or both of them, really wanted a child. Meantime, he impregnates his wife. 

Okay, fast forward. Your relationship with this man, when you were just 18, was "official" two months before the children were born. That means, he was having sex with his then-wife not more than 7 months prior to your "official" relationship.

Can you see where I'm going with this? Can you step back and see how downright loony this sounds?

This is either a made-up story (which my gut tells me it might be based on how outrageous it sounds), or you have one big hot mess on your hands.

And the mess is him. And if you stay, you will be part of the mess too. In fact, you will become a mess.

I cannot believe a 20 year old woman would waste her youth and time on a man like this.

Seriously.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

sweetnothings4 said:


> Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum. I've been lurking around just reading posts for a while. I decided to sign up the other day.
> 
> My boyfriend and I have been together for about 2 years exactly on the 7th. We have lived together for about the same amount of time. We live in Northern cali.
> 
> ...


SN, I think him moving away from his children is just wrong no matter how much he wants a new life with you. Now I understand that 'away' differs depending on distance. You're talking northern cali to southern cali so that's a few hundred miles away and IMO it's too far. Some will feel judged by this and that's fine because am judging.

But isn't that part of what's making you feel conflicted and why you're asking the question. You like this guy but knowing he will move away from his kids for you is setting wrong with you. It sets wrong because you know down deep that he's not supposed compromise being close to his kids for anyone including you. One day if you have kids with him, you want to know that they are his priority and he's not showing anything to support that now with the kids he already has. Na I think it shows poor character but maybe I'm over thinking it.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> Not different state. We live in Northern California I want to go to southern California



Ok. Just that's just by technicality. How many miles away is the question. 

also - you're on a forum that deals with marriages/serious relationships. Most of us have dealt with child custody and family court. 

If he sees the kids for several hours four times a week. The judge is not going to grant him joint physical custody. The judge will take into consideration why he moved. And is also an expert in knowing if he is being lied to or not. If your bf isn't spending a ton of time with his daughters right now. What makes you think he will do that when you guys live further away. 

And to hear that he is doing this out of spite to have his kids "longer" (which I don't believe) - You just wait when he does that to you. 

Anything he does to others. He will do to you. Good and bad. You are NOT an exception. The worst and last thing in the world is if you think that what happened to the ex can't happen to you.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Everyone else is telling OP that the man shouldn't be away from his kids. But here's the thing. He's way older. He's made his own mind. He WANTS to move. Away. 

It's selfish for OP to ask him of this. But it's worse that he's agreeing and justifying this. If OP is anything like I was when I was her age. She has already made up her mind and will find out the hard way. Just be prepared. And look for the warning signs. Protect yourself. And also- know that it's wrong of you to ask a man to move away from his kids no matter how willing he is to do it. 

It's similar in ways to being the knowing mistress to a man willing to cheat- except the man is cheating on his kids.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

It's his choice if he goes with you or stays, just leave it up to him. If he turns it against you later on, tell him there's nothing stopping him from going back and there's the door. Obviously it won't be that simple but you aren't married, you need to continue making choices for yourself and leave him to make his choices. Despite what others think, imo, you aren't responsible for whether or not he has a relationship with his children. If he wants one, he'll make it happen.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

This story sounds so immature and unbelievable, I'm not sure I should spend time replying to it.

This is what I understand so far:

18 year old girl starts dating a guy "much older" (is that late 30s or early 40s?) while his wife was giving birth to his children! 

Now, two years later, the 20 year old girl wants to up and leave to Southern California because "she's lived in the Bay area her whole life" and just feels bored. In the process, she doesn't mind that the lives of two little babies could get completely screwed up as a result of "Father of the year" not being around.

hmmm....

Yeah I don't think I have much to say about this, other than "sigh"?


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

I feel like I'm being criticized and all I'm asking for is advice.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I feel like I'm being citizen and all I'm asking for is advice.


The advice is to stop dating an older man with so much baggage whose connection to you is on the verge of making his 2 babies essentially fatherless.

You were wrong to start dating him and you are wrong to continue this relationship. You're walking on a fairly thin line here. While your boyfriend seems to lack the maturity that his age would normally grant, you are further endangering his kids' lives by closing your eyes to all the better options in front of you.

You're only 20. There is absolutely no reason for a 20 year old girl to limit herself to such an unrewarding dynamic. You owe it to yourself and your future off-springs to learn, experience and enjoy life to the point of gaining an acceptable level of maturity in a few years. The relationship with your boyfriend goes completely against what a healthy woman in your situation and age-group should be doing.

There is pretty much no chance of your relationship with him surviving for long regardless of how you decide to deal with your move to Southern Cali. You will slowly (but surely) start to find him not as attractive, respectable and 'fun'. You will break up with him in the near future. This is written in your script. Decide accordingly.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



synthetic said:


> This story sounds so immature and unbelievable, I'm not sure I should spend time replying to it.
> 
> This is what I understand so far:
> 
> ...


More like late 40s. I'm not just "up and leaving". I've been wanting to move for like a year now. The divorce papers were already filed before she was giving birth. 

And just so people don't think I'm the "other woman" or a home wrecker. I met him AFTER divorce was filled. The divorce had nothing to do with me. They divorced because she went crazy trying to have a baby the whole time they were married (7 years) and weren't able to work out the issues. Marriage counseling and all.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

sweetnothings4 said:


> More like late 40s.


I just have no words for this...


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

It's her life, it's her choice who she dates/marries, whatever. They are two consenting adults, they haven't done anything wrong, if they make mistakes (and everyone does), they're the ones who will live with the consequences. This young woman isn't a home wrecker, child abandoner etc, she's just a young lady entangled with a man who has baggage. Like I said before, his baggage really is his problem. If he was determined to be a part of his children's lives, her moving or not moving wouldn't be the thing that stops him.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



breeze said:


> It's her life, it's her choice who she dates/marries, whatever. They are two consenting adults, they haven't done anything wrong, if they make mistakes (and everyone does), they're the ones who will live with the consequences. This young woman isn't a home wrecker, child abandoner etc, she's just a young lady entangled with a man who has baggage. Like I said before, his baggage really is his problem. If he was determined to be a part of his children's lives, her moving or not moving wouldn't be the thing that stops him.


Thank you


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



synthetic said:


> I just have no words for this...


I hate when people give me **** about age difference. It's not a big deal. People have been doing it since the beginning of time. Every one does it in Hollywood.

And for the unrewarding issue someone brought up. It is rewarding because I receive unconditional love, emotional support as well as financial. I am a college student working a minimum wage job. As a women who has grown up in the foster care system it is nice to have all 3 for a change. From a man that is much wiser than me and can show me the world/life.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I hate when people give me **** about age difference. It's not a big deal. People have been doing it since the beginning of time. Every one does it in Hollywood.
> 
> And for the unrewarding issue someone brought up. It is rewarding because I receive unconditional love, emotional support as well as financial. I am a college student working a minimum wage job. As a women who has grown up in the foster care system it is nice to have all 3 for a change. From a man that is much wiser than me and can show me the world/life.


It is a huge deal in your case. It's alright though. You'll learn.

You've indulged in a false sense of security and stability trying to run away from your turbulent childhood. It would be fine if romance was not a part of this picture, but unfortunately it is.

I'm sorry, I don't think you're open enough to advice and reason at this point. It would be a futile effort to convince you to do things differently.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

I don't think anyone has given u shiiiiit for dating an older man. They've given you a few cons of what that age gap might bring. But only along the lines of constructive criticism. 

You asked for advice. And it came in the form of constructive criticism. If you have an issue with that. Then perhaps you came here looking for validation. That's when someone comes in here pretending to see if there is error in their ways. But the whole time- they were assuming everyone was just going to agree with them.

But regardless. Your man is not a good person. You posted this info in a thread regarding a girls night out. I'm not basing my judgement on the fact that he likes to have fun. But there are clearly other priorities at stake here- that are being forsaken. 

"You should be able to go have a girls night. Fortunately for me my bf like clubbing and dancing. We actually just went to a edm music fesitival(rave) this summer edc in Las Vegas. We go clubbing like every weekend. I go maybe once a month with my girls and he go goes with his guys. We both dance with other people when we're not out together. It's not an issue with us."

You are 20. You SHOULD be having the time of your life. And if going clubbing every weekend is it. That's fine. 

But he is almost 50. And he's going clubbing every weekend. As well as raves. That's what edm is no matter how you play it. I've been to ones in Vegas and New York. 30-40% of the people there are on ecstasy. 

He's also going out with his guys without you. Which is fine. But there's a type of man that supports younger women almost 30 years his junior- who parties too much rather than be with his kids more. This is the same type of man who is more likely to already be cheating. 

You may take this as me criticizing you. But in my opinion. You have almost complete impunity in my mind. For his age. He should know better. You- however- are just starting to learn life's lessons.

when I see a man in his late 40s clubbing with a bunch of dudes his age. It just screams desperation. And again. Just to reiterate- since you say this is a Cali thing. Well. In New York it looks desperate and lack of priority. And I still get that vibe as well as people around me- should I decide to go out for a night when I'm in LA- being that I fly for business in Cali about once every 6-8 weeks. 

I see what guys like that do when they're not with their woman. I see how they present themselves at corporate dinners or business dinners. 
Since no one else has said this. I'll be the first to say it. You should think about what he is doing when he's out without you.

And I'm ALL for girls/boys night out.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Ps. You and I are more alike than you think. Do not think I'm judging you. When I'm simply trying to tell you not to make the same mistakes I did. 

I was finishing up college right when I got married. I love dancing (but I rarely drink and have tried drugs 2 times. Both times weed. Once was smoking and once was a cube sampling of a brownie from a friend who owns a dispensary in LA). You have goals and aspirations. I'm a successful financially independent woman working in the business work however I had almost zero time to have fun in college because I was studying so much and had internships. I have a 2 and 4 year old. They are my everything and I am very family oriented. 

Most of the guys I dated had money. Millionaires are very common in the city i live in as well as yours. With money being everywhere - of course the desire for material gain increases. You want nice things in life. Well. You can certainly achieve them. Nothing wrong with your man giving you gifts and helping you. Just don't DEPENd on it. 

You can have it all as long as you work hard in school as well as life. You may think it's cute and special that he's taking care of you financially. But really - in a city where there are plenty of women and men waiting in line for someone to take care of them- just be on your guard to possibly be replaced. It will be less likely to happen if you become financially independent yourself. Which with school is what I'm assuming you're doing. That's good.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I feel like I'm being criticized and all I'm asking for is advice.


We are giving you advice. Your situation is untenable. That's our advice. You got together too young. You picked a guy who didn't even have a second to breathe from fighting with and leaving his PREGNANT wife with whom he went through HELL to have kids, who is having lots of fights with this woman just to get to his kids that he fought so hard to get, and now you're saying he's going to move with you to the other end of California. There are SO many things that are probably going to go wrong with this situation it's not even funny. What you feel is criticism is us telling you that you can do whatever you want to do, just don't be surprised when this all goes south.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> More like late 40s.


Say what?! Holy cow, sweetnothing. That is just plain bad. You had a hard childhood, didn't you? Every psychologist in the world would tell you you went looking for a father figure to fill a hole in your life. NOT healthy. And the fact that you'd pick one who is willing to abandon his babies further detracts from any benefit you might gain from him. We're not criticizing. We're giving you our collective wisdom that this is a mistake and has about a 2% chance of surviving.

How about this? How about you move by yourself and continue to date him long distance? See what happens?



sweetnothings4 said:


> The divorce papers were already *filed *before she was giving birth. And just so people don't think I'm the "other woman" or a home wrecker. I met him AFTER divorce was filled. The divorce had nothing to do with me. They divorced because she went crazy trying to have a baby the whole time they were married (7 years) and weren't able to work out the issues. Marriage counseling and all.


Do you not see how screwed up that is? 

Nobody here thinks you were an 'other woman.' We DO think that, no matter how 'crazy' his exwife is, what he did - divorcing while she was pregnant, dating IMMEDIATELY, dating a girl more than HALF HIS AGE - almost a THIRD his age, and then moving in with you before the ink is dry - just reeks of an immature, self-centered, troubled man who will not be a good long-term partner.

When men come here after their marriage falls apart, do you know what we always tell them? We tell them not to date for AT LEAST a year after their divorce is final. People need that much time for their brain to work out what happened, what they did wrong, learn lessons, get over their wife and the marriage they lost...your man did none of that. And he picked - no offense - a child to date. NOT healthy. That's another thing we always tell men who are divorcing - do NOT pick a person more than 5, 10 years tops, younger than you. You simply don't have the same life story, life experiences.

It's your life, and I doubt you're going to dump him, but keep in mind what we're telling you when things start to go sour. Don't blame yourself when they do, just remember that we're telling you that y'all relationship wasn't going to work out in the first place.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> It is rewarding because I receive unconditional love, emotional support as well as financial. I am a college student working a minimum wage job. As a women who has *grown up in the foster care system *it is nice to have all 3 for a change. From a man that is much wiser than me and can show me the world/life.


Just what I thought. You sought out a father figure. It's EXTREMELY common for girls in your situation to do exactly what you've done, so don't feel bad; your subconscious chose him for you. 

btw, though, REAL love in a REAL relationship is never unconditional. That's for your kids. For your partner, you should have CONDITIONAL love - conditional on him being a good partner for you and you being a good partner for him. If your partner stops being good for you, he doesn't deserve unconditional love. In a healthy relationship, BOTH of you should be willing to let it go if the other person becomes harmful. That's why unconditional love doesn't belong in relationships.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

sweetnothings4 said:


> Both children are for the same women. His ex couldn't get pregnant so surrogate. Then a month later she conceived natural. So there a month apart. She sued for sole legal and physical custody with no visitation. He wants to be in there life more than a couple hours a week but he has had to fight tooth and nail with her for every hours he gotten with them. I know he will be a good father because I've seen him fight just to see his children.


Why did his ex sue for sole custody and why did she mostly get it? Court systems don't hand out sole custody unless some form of abuse or neglect is there. It just seems like you rug sweep things that don't match how you want it to be. For example, you say that you know he will be a good father but the only true example you have is that he's allowed very little time with the ones he has and he's willing to move away from them. I think you're fooling yourself.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

d


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

I understand where you're coming from. I don't think anyone is telling you to leave him. No one can command that. It's more like- hey- warning warning- it's best if you do leave him (but anyone with an ounce of life experience will know that most will not take advice when given- unless they're truly ready for it. 

Just know he is NOT a good guy. But if you're using him for companionship/love as well as the perks of $$- go for it. I do not think you're a free loader at all. And I can tell he is more than willing to help you- but remember. He will help you as long as he feels like playing with you. 

This may not true. And you guys may live happily together for 20 years. 

And then what. He will be almost 70. And you'll be 40. The dating pool is not as easy for a 40 something vs a 20 something. Obviously. 

That's another thing to consider. Is that even if true love exists between two whose age gap is almost 30 years. It is truly selfish on the older one to insist the younger be with him or her. Because you will (assuming you're together for life) - love him for the younger years of your life. And when he passes- during which you will care for him and be with him in his old age and take care of the kids- bc he is too tired to do so- he will leave you and you will be without a partner- a widow at 40. 

My kids' father is 17 years my senior. I thought about these things a lot. The thought of not being able to grow old together. 

My current guy is in his early 30s and all I can think about is- it's finally nice to think about how we can grow old together.

I really like how motivated you are in your goals. Just don't make this man your everything. And the irony of that is- in putting yourself first- he will respect and love you more because of it.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

I see


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I understand where you're coming from. I don't think anyone is telling you to leave him. No one can command that. It's more like- hey- warning warning- it's best if you do leave him (but anyone with an ounce of life experience will know that most will not take advice when given- unless they're truly ready for it.
> 
> Just know he is NOT a good guy. But if you're using him for companionship/love as well as the perks of $$- go for it. I do not think you're a free loader at all. And I can tell he is more than willing to help you- but remember. He will help you as long as he feels like playing with you.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what worries me and Ive talked to him about it multiple times and he always say just think about right now and not about our future. I want to have kids when I'm 30 but hell be 61. he's kids will be 22. When i mention this he says the children will be finically secure. But I want more than that for my children. I want my children to have a present father that is actively apart of their lives. Even if we have kids and don't stay together I won't try to keep him from see in his kids like a lot of women do. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything right now but what if that changes.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I feel like I'm being criticized and all I'm asking for is advice.


That's TAM. Some good advice but you need to weed through the agenda posters.

If he is willing to move and only have partial visitation then that's really on him. If my GF told me tomorrow she was moving my response would be sorry to hear that I'll miss you. I wouldn't leave my kids but certainly some parents are different.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Sweet Nothing-

With your academic and career goals- you're on the right track. Its obvious school is important to you. This is all good. 

With success in school, and work- you will get more financial independence from him. At which point- you will be able to determine- how much of your love is from compatibility and companionship- and how much of it is also due to you needing him. 

All these things will come into perspective when the time comes. 

But just prepare yourself. This is a man that focuses on the now. Not the future. He says- honey, don't worry about the now- in the future, the kids will be provided for. He's the man that focuses on his now- and would rather have fun, rather than have fun AND tend to his responsibilities. He is all about instant gratification. 

You get a pass for jumping into things at 18. He- doesn't. 

Theres a voice inside of you that is telling you- I don't want my kids to not be able to have a dad who can't be all present. I don't want my kids to be 10, and having a dad who is 71. 

This is what i'm talking about- in terms of that post i wrote last night- where i spoke of men who date significantly younger women- tend to have certain similar dating characteristics. And selfish- is a HUGE one of them. A lot of them are living in the now. There is a small portion of them- where TRUE LOVE just happened in the form of a younger person.

Dating environments are much more different in larger coastal cities. You can get away with a 30 year age gap with out people calling him a pedophile. This is just more of a coastal/bigger city thing. People are more accepting and understanding- or at least, more tolerable- when they're around something more often. 

I've seen plenty of women date older men who help them $$- for all the wrong reasons. They're doing it for Balmain jeans, Birkin or Celine bags- cartier watches and lavish vacations. You're doing it so you get a good education and be that woman who buys her own treats. Bc when the provider is gone- are you going to be left with a bunch of handbags and memories of sun bathing- or- are you going to be left with a college degree  

Please know- that he is NOT looking out for you. Its only for himself. You need to do the same.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> Sweet Nothing-
> 
> With your academic and career goals- you're on the right track. Its obvious school is important to you. This is all good.
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is the best advice given to me on this forum.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you looked into a work study program? Like at NASA, they used to (don't know about now) have a program where you work one semester at NASA and then go to school for a semester; and by the time you graduate (and you can go all the way to PhD), you have a guaranteed career with them. I'm sure there are tons of places like that in California. It would pay for everything.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

I haven't heard about it. I just asked my bf he says his company offers it and alot of others but you have to be an upperclassmen (junior or senior year)


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

I would stay away from his company. It would be fine to intern there- as long as he is not your supervisor (so you can get an unbiased letter of recommendation, and job reference).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I haven't heard about it. I just asked my bf he says his company offers it and alot of others but you have to be an upperclassmen (junior or senior year)


Well, it's going to take you 4 to 8 months to line something like that up anyway - so why not prepare for that for your junior year?

Just don't use HIS company.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> Well, it's going to take you 4 to 8 months to line something like that up anyway - so why not prepare for that for your junior year?
> 
> Just don't use HIS company.


I will definitely look into towards the end of the academic year. But right now I'm a sophomore. What can I do now to become more financial independent?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have a friend who earns her living by going to garage sales, buying stuff at great bargains (you can negotiate), and then selling them on eBay or a local bookoo.com account. She makes tons of money just by doing this. I'm getting ready to set up my bookoo account this weekend to do the same thing.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I will definitely look into towards the end of the academic year. But right now I'm a sophomore. What can I do now to become more financial independent?



Are you good with saving money? From your difficult childhood- it's hard for me to guess. I would think yes- because you have most of your priorities straight. Especially so for a young lady your age. 

But if not. Now is the time to practice. 

For school books- don't buy them in the campus bookstore- they're expensive. Go to www.addall.com. It's a site that sells used textbooks. Just make sure you get the correct edition and year. A lot of teachers allow some leeway for students to order their books- when it comes to assigning homework at the beginning of semester. 

Cali has a lot of good state universities. And they give priority admission to community college students. So for example you get your associates at a cc- and then when you apply for uc Berkeley or Irvine - they look at cc students first! Going that route can not
Only save you a lot of $$- but allows you a better chance of getting into a better college (but state schools only). 

Why can't you work in a nightclub? When I was a college student. I was a bottle service girl- worked one night a week (Saturday)- my job involved just bringing the bottle- collecting money. Tips were pooled- and after I give my percentage to the: host, bar back, and bartenders- I generally averaged about $800 cash. 

Tables are already sold. You just bring them their bottle. For example. One bottle of grey goose is $350 but they must tip a mandatory minimum of 20% - it is included in the price. So I was making a minimum of $70 per bottle (bc grey goose was the cheapest thing on the menu). 

You need to learn how to network. Especially since your bf enjoys going clubbing every weekend. You should see if he or any of his friends know the management at the top clubs- so you can get hired. 

That job allowed me to double major in college (I took 21-22 credits every semester)- in addition to being able to intern during the summer. I was fortunate in that my parents paid for everything. But when I got married- I had them stop paying for my way (except for college- bc my school was $40k a year)- and I really enjoyed taking care of my own expenses. 

Lastly- I emphasize- that interning is key. Some of the top most competitive internships - don't pay you. Don't turn your nose at that. Having one of those selective internships on your resume is extremely valuable. 

A lot of jobs require a degree as well as work related experience. An internship will get you that.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

You got to be 21 to work in a nightclub. I've got a fake Id but that's not gonna get me employment


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> You got to be 21 to work in a nightclub. I've got a fake Id but that's not gonna get me employment


Yea definitely stay away from that- but one more year- and that could be an easy way to make money and not take valuable time away from studying. 

Also- I'm not much of a drinker. never have been. So working in a nightclub was fine for me. But alot of the other girls- got consumed by the lifestyle. They would be coked up and buzzed during the shift- then by the time we were getting off around 6am- they'd be going to Pacha to party until 11 or noon. 

If thats too much temptation and distraction- then stay away from working in the partying environment.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I've heard of the Ron Brown scholarship (former US sec of Commerce). Maybe you fit their criteria. Do try to stay from debt.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



NextTimeAround said:


> I've heard of the Ron Brown scholarship (former US sec of Commerce). Maybe you fit their criteria. Do try to stay from debt.


My college is paid for by the state since I was in foster care as long as I go to a school in California


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

Ugh he's read this thread and is now all pissed off. Tells me to leave him alone. Doesn't think I should post about his life. Now we're having a BIG fight. Says you guys don't know what your talking about and you don't know the dynamics of our relationship. He went into the room and doesn't want me talk to him. What should I do? Should I go comfort him or what? Am I in the wrong for posting this?


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

It's a sign that he's very controlling. Because if someone was giving me false untrue advice. My bf wouldn't be bugging me about it. 

Either he doesn't trust your judgement 

Or 

What is being said about him is true. 

You need to react how you want to react. And not react to fear or intimidation. If he is a good man. He will respect you for it. If you are a good person- you can confront him with respect and constructive criticism. It's very obvious you love him. It's okay to have concerns. I don't see anything he should be mad at YOU over- it seems more like he doesn't like hearing bad things about himself. 

I wouldn't blame him for being upset tho. No one likes to hear bad things about them. 

Do you willingly let him see your phone? (Nothing wrong about that. Some people do. Some people don't.) just curious.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Awww, poor baby. He doesn't like being questioned for dating a CHILD when he's almost 50, huh? In MY state, he could have been put in JAIL for dating a high school student.

Please don't apologize to him. You'll be setting a really bad precedent if you stay together. You have every right in the world to go online to an anonymous forum to ask for advice on how to make your relationship as safe and healthy as possible. A HEALTHY man would be fine that you are working to ensure your relationship is as good as possible. A WEAK man would tremble at the thought of you getting advice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I don't see anything he should be mad at YOU over- it seems more like he doesn't like hearing bad things about himself.


That about sums it up.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> It's a sign that he's very controlling. Because if someone was giving me false untrue advice. My bf wouldn't be bugging me about it.
> 
> Either he doesn't trust your judgement
> 
> ...


Yes I let him see my phone and I use his phone alot. But that's not how he saw. He was going through the computer history.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> Awww, poor baby. He doesn't like being questioned for dating a CHILD when he's almost 50, huh? In MY state, he could have been put in JAIL for dating a high school student.
> 
> Please don't apologize to him. You'll be setting a really bad precedent if you stay together. You have every right in the world to go online to an anonymous forum to ask for advice on how to make your relationship as safe and healthy as possible. A HEALTHY man would be fine that you are working to ensure your relationship is as good as possible. A WEAK man would tremble at the thought of you getting advice.


I am not a child. I am a very mature adult. He's more concerned about our ip being traced. He's probably reading this right now. He left the house says he needs space.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

I promise no one is tracing your IP address. 

That argument- sweet nothing - is given by a man trying to manipulate you- into not venting online. 

He has tech background. Giving him credibility in this matter. But on this entire forum- what makes him so special that someone would go the extra step to trace your locale? 

Nothing you stated was illegal. And even if something was illegal- no one cares-! I'm posting this as I'm watching Ray Donovan. Not wondering- how I can get your location (and then what? )


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> I promise no one is tracing your IP address.
> 
> That argument- sweet nothing - is given by a man trying to manipulate you- into not venting online.
> 
> ...


I know right. That what I tried to tell him. Then it starts talking about data miners and stuff. He said what you guys said is right and he's just upset with himself not me. He just doesn't like things being thrown in his face. He says he's been living with regret for the longest time and I'm the only thing keeping him sane. He's really stressed out trying to finalize the divorce and custody and work.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

You're WAY too young for this child-abandoning geezer.

And now he's trying to lay a guilt trip on YOU for reaching out for help dealing with a troubling issue.

$250K or not (my ex earned A LOT more than that), I can assure you the money is NOT worth it. Don't sell your soul just to keep a sugar-daddy who will pay your bills.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> You're WAY too young for this child-abandoning geezer.
> 
> And now he's trying to lay a guilt trip on YOU for reaching out for help dealing with a troubling issue.
> 
> $250K or not (my ex earned A LOT more than that), I can assure you the money is NOT worth it. Don't sell your soul just to keep a sugar-daddy who will pay your bills.



I think you speak a load of truth- but sweet nothing has had a very difficult childhood where she came from nothing. 

It's hard to tell someone who was practically an orphan (with living parents)- to just throw away a situation that is perhaps - the best she has known. Remember. Everything is relative. What may be a wonderful situation to one person- could be horrible for someone else. 

It's good advice but not practical bc perhaps it's not feasible for her at the moment. The sacrifice would greatly exceed the moral and character lesson at hand. 

1) she loves him
2) she wants to do all the right things with him (family and marriage)
3) she does not come off in any way as a gold digger. (Not saying you're calling her that)

My bf gives me things that are equatable to that. Just not in cash. He does it in gifts. Dinners. Dates. Back rubs  

she pays her own way and even pays a portion of the rent. you pay approx 25% of rent- yet full time minimum wage is not 25% of his income. So really- he's coming on top if we are speaking of proportional division of income in terms of rent. 

4) she knows she has to learn to fish - so to speak. "Give a man a fish he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish and he's fed for life" - meaning - she's not trying to just sit around and look for a handout. She wants to be a bread winner. 

She desires to be self sufficient. And Cali is VERY expensive- and she can't move out of Cali due to the state covering tuition. 

5) she will have to find out for herself if she's willing to stay with him for love - or leave him eventually so that her kids can have a father who will be alive and healthy to see them off to college.

These were things I had to think of with my kids' dad. With our age gap - which was no where as considerable as yours. So you have a lot to think about. 

As for your BFs response- either he is a good man- or he's a smart man and knows what to say to make things right. Either way- divorce IS very stressful and he should feel guilty for not being around his kids. At least he has a conscience.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

On the other hand. If I were in your shoes sweet nothing. I would take all the advice and run the opposite direction. But that's coming from me- and I had a very easy childhood- college in terms of $$. 

But that brought it's share of problems- but that's completely off topic.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I am not a child. I am a very mature adult. He's more concerned about our ip being traced. He's probably reading this right now.


I'm talking about the legal aspects, sweetnothing.



sweetnothings4 said:


> He left the house says he needs space.


You do realize, right, that this is straight out of Abuse and Control 101? He left, and he said that exact phrase to you, because it SCARES YOU. It CONTROLS you. It makes you think oh no I made him mad it's all my fault I have to make it up to him and promise to never talk about him again as long as I live.

As you say, you're a grown woman. If he's unhappy, that HIS problem. You have every right to try to get help for your relationship and he SHOULD be GRATEFUL that you're trying to learn how to have a great relationship. 

But he isn't. Think about it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I still want to understand WHY his wife went from wanting kids with him to going through HELL to ensure he doesn't even come NEAR them. It's easy to just say 'she's crazy.' What is the REAL truth?

Since he's reading here, maybe he can come enlighten us on his side of things. It might help us understand and, if he thinks we're giving bad advice or vilifying him, he can clarify for us.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> I still want to understand WHY his wife went from wanting kids with him to going through HELL to ensure he doesn't even come NEAR them. It's easy to just say 'she's crazy.' What is the REAL truth?
> 
> Since he's reading here, maybe he can come enlighten us on his side of things. It might help us understand and, if he thinks we're giving bad advice or vilifying him, he can clarify for us.


They tried to have kids for 6 years. They did all types of treatments. They even went to Mexico to try something that wasn't legal here. That put a lot of stress on there marriage. Sex only happened when she was ovulating and was more like a chore for him. It was a ritual of her taking a shower laying towel on the bed and missionary only. She became obsessed with having kids but he was already over it and was just doing it to make her happy. Than he sought sex outside the marriage. She found out and they went to counseling. She said it'll take a while to forgive him and during that time it will be miserable for him. So she filed for divorce. She wouldn't even let him be in room when the girls where born. She doesn't want him to see the girls because she's hurt. She's doing it just to hurt him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ah, the plot thickens.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> Ah, the plot thickens.


Yes there's lots of stuff I leave it. If I write the whole story it'll be too long to read.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

Okay he's made his own post called " marriage material". This is the link
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/223186-marriage-material.html


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

Well he's deleted his thread because I posted on his thread. Now wants me to delete mine. I will be deleting this thread tomorrow. I'll still be on the site but not making threads.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What a PUTZ.

I hope you are rid of him soon. He is showing his true colors. I hope you are seeing them.

Tell me - why do you have to delete your thread? Just because he says so? Because despite you saying you're a grownup, you're being treated like property. To keep receiving his money? I mean support? You know, you CAN support yourself by yourself, even going to college. My mom moved away the month I graduated high school. Had to get a full time job, an apartment, and still go to school at night, and keep paying the car note I had already gotten, but I managed just fine by myself. You can, too - and you don't even have to pay for college like I did.

btw, he didn't delete it because you posted on it. He deleted it because he tried to set up a situation where everyone would feel sorry for him - to fix his image - and it didn't work because I came on there and told the real story (at least your version of it). His attempt to regain control didn't work, so he cut and run.

I hope you will leave your thread up. You can lock it and just not post on it any more; but leaving it will help others who see similar stories to theirs and get help from the advice you'd gotten.

Who knows? Maybe there's some good in him we just aren't seeing - although his one post sure as hell didn't do much for his image. I hope things work out for you.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Sweet nothing - I don't know of any other man his age that would be that childish- as to post a "counter" thread for whatever purpose- 

I cracked up when I logged on here before bedtime. Gave me a good laugh. Well. Good night to you. Hope you continue to get the online therapy you're looking for. It's almost midnight here so bed I go.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> What a PUTZ.
> 
> I hope you are rid of him soon. He is showing his true colors. I hope you are seeing them.
> 
> ...


He says I need to delete it bc it's driving a wedge btwn us. Says I should respect his wishes.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> Sweet nothing - I don't know of any other man his age that would be that childish- as to post a "counter" thread for whatever purpose-
> 
> I cracked up when I logged on here before bedtime. Gave me a good laugh. Well. Good night to you. Hope you continue to get the online therapy you're looking for. It's almost midnight here so bed I go.


He says I wasn't posting the full story. I wasn't that great to him when we first met. But I didn't see the reason why I need to post that bc it didn't have anything to do with my original question.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Like I said...are you his property?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You being 'that good' to him when you first met...you mean when you were a HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR and he was 45? What did he expect? He was dating a child. A child who had had to scramble just to survive. He, on the other hand, was middle aged, still married, and trolling for Playboy bunnies to soothe his ego after his wife went psycho.

Is it legal in your state for someone over 21 to date someone under 18? It's not here; he would have gone to prison here for dating you, if you weren't already 18 when he met you.

Here's the thing. If WE hadn't picked up on the fact that he was nearly 3 times your age, and questioned the morals of a man who would (1) date someone that young, (2) do it while only 3 or 4 months kicked out of his home, (3) still MARRIED, and (4) choosing to put his energy into a wild and crazy clubbing lifestyle instead of creating a safe nurturing home for his babies, he wouldn't be telling you to take your thread down. He has justified his whole sordid life of the last 2+ years and we tore it down in a day. Gotta hurt, right? 

It doesn't matter what your life was like when you two met - you were a CHILD. Children are allowed to make mistakes; the brain doesn't stop developing, can't make fully mature decisions and weigh all the options, until you're around age 25. So YOU have a long way to go. He has no excuse. 

He picked you because you made him feel good, soothed his bruised ego, despite knowing it was wrong (look up Jerry Lee Lewis). And now you're making things more complicated by wanting to move to another part of the state, so the honeymoon period is over. You're starting to see the truth of your relationship - that you're being bought; that you're his eye candy; that he can't handle being looked at critically (did that have anything to do with his marriage crumbling or was it really true that this was all his wife's fault?); that even if he does really love you and you love him, this is going to be a very messy relationship if it lasts, as this debacle has shown.

So I'll just give you one last piece of advice, as I'm sure you're going to be pressured to remove the thread. Know that you can make it on your own. Know that as you get older, you're going to start needing him less. That the security and safety you feel by having him protect you and make your decisions for you and keep you comfortable, those things are going to start chafing soon, as you age and become better able to earn money and take care of yourself. Please don't have any kids with him for at least the next 6-7 years; it will tie you to him for the rest of your life. If your relationship can survive til you're 28 or 29, go right ahead and start a family (I was 31 when I had DD24 and she turned out amazing), just not before then. And start looking at your relationship and asking yourself...are you really doing what YOU want to do or are you finding yourself doing what he tells you you should do? That's the role of a father figure - to mold you. I don't think you'll be happy in the long run not being able to think for yourself. And him telling you to take down your thread is just one example of him thinking for you - of him pushing HIS agenda over yours - you were here getting advice for YOU, but that didn't matter to HIM; all that mattered to HIM was that he continued to look good to you. You probably didn't have a lot of friends, no family, when you met him, but one of the typical steps of such a personality is to remove you from access to your friends and family so no one can tell you that what you're experiencing isn't healthy and make you question your situation (read the Why Does He Do That? book by Bancroft). This was your one time of accessing your 'friends' and getting an outside view of your relationship with him, and look at what happened. Look at what he's demanding of you. And even if he couches it in 'if you care about me you will take it down' - the message is clear. He is isolating you. If he really loves you and sees you as a complete whole person he respects, he will back off and let you get advice and feel secure in himself that he is worth staying with.

Remember that you've survived this far; you can continue to survive just fine.

If he makes you happy, great, I'm happy for you. Just make sure it's an equal relationship, ok? Good luck!


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> You being 'that good' to him when you first met...you mean when you were a HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR and he was 45? What did he expect? He was dating a child. A child who had had to scramble just to survive. He, on the other hand, was middle aged, still married, and trolling for Playboy bunnies to soothe his ego after his wife went psycho.
> 
> Is it legal in your state for someone over 21 to date someone under 18? It's not here; he would have gone to prison here for dating you, if you weren't already 18 when he met you.
> 
> ...


Clubbing isn't his lifestyle. It is mine. I bring him along with me because I don't want to be by myself. Your right about the critiquing part. He told me he doesn't like hearing negative things about himself. I don't want to have kids tell I'm 30 anyway. He does make me feel very happy. Thank you for your advice. I will definitely take it into consideration.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, tell him that nobody likes hearing negative things about ourselves. But it's what we DO when we DO hear it that defines our character. When people tell me stuff like that, it hurts, but then I force myself to ask myself ... were they right? DO I have areas I need to improve on? ARE there things I should consider? Because I want to be the best person possible and, let's face it, we all tell ourselves that we are just fine; it's what we hear from the outside world that we should be listening to.


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## wngrg8 (Sep 29, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> Why did his ex sue for sole custody and why did she mostly get it? Court systems don't hand out sole custody unless some form of abuse or neglect is there. It just seems like you rug sweep things that don't match how you want it to be. For example, you say that you know he will be a good father but the only true example you have is that he's allowed very little time with the ones he has and he's willing to move away from them. I think you're fooling yourself.


I have been paying for a counselor to give us advice on our relationship, and we have made great progress. I appreciate you all giving her additional advice. I actually agree with most of what people have said. She should move on with her life and I'll do whatever I can to help her make the transition. The post I made was childish and that's why I removed it. She doesn't have to remove her post. She can do whatever she wants. This will be my last comment on the subject.
Cheers


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Excellent!


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

OMG. I'm crying my eyes out right now. Now he doesn't think we should be together. And I deserve someone better than him with out the baggage. I told him I love him and I'll always support him and not to worry about all the negative things that are being said to him. I was at school and he text me saying he was gonna propose to me Sunday while we were in Napa but isn't anymore and I could just sell the ring. What do I do. He said that's why he got really upset about me posting on here.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

I PMed you.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> I was at school and he text me saying he was gonna propose to me Sunday while we were in Napa *but isn't anymore* and I could just sell the ring.


Perhaps one of the best decisions he has ever made in his life.

I'd give the ring back though.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

synthetic said:


> Perhaps one of the best decisions he has ever made in his life.
> 
> I'd give the ring back though.


I agree. The proposal sounds like a hasty decision based on a very shaky relationship. If it was based on solid foundations, it wouldn't have been cast aside so easily.

You'll both grieve but the pain of dealing with a break up doesn't mean the relationship was worth keeping. For him, it might be nice having a young woman propping up the ego, but after a while the shine would wear off and reality would come knocking. Life with a woman who's at a different stage of life, more children, more work to bridge the gap in thinking, partying and crap when it's the last thing you want to be doing. Makes me think of that movie, "It's Complicated". For her, an older man with older man problems, children he can't keep up with, already been there and done that attitude, not particularly interested anymore. It'd come out eventually imo. That said, if you can make it through the toughest of times, it might be a sign that it was a relationship worth working for.


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## lookingforpeace (Sep 30, 2014)

if you want to be with him, you need to want his children as well. if you are ready to stick close to them, then you shouldn't be with this guy. some people think they are selling themselves short, but the children did nothing to deserve that. later on down the road if you guys do stay together, the kids might resent you for taking their dad away from them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I was at school and he text me saying he was gonna propose to me Sunday while we were in Napa *but isn't anymore* and I could just sell the ring. What do I do. He said *that's why he got really upset* about me posting on here.


Of course he isn't. 

And of course he did. 

Doing this puts him SQUARELY back in control. Now you're on your knees begging him to LET you stay with him.

meh


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

He's apologize but I haven't forgiven him. He's just in the other room. He cried but I still couldn't accept the apology because it's a little to late. We could've resolved this yesterday with out it blowing up. 

I'm just so sad now. He ruined my surprise. I do want to marry this man. Weve talked about it many of times. Why did he have to throw it in my face? telling me he was gonna propose Sunday while on vacation for a two year anniversary. Now I know he has a ring. Even if we did make up he can't propose Sunday bc it's all messed up now. I dont even want to go to napa anymore either. The whole time I'll just be thinking he was gonna propose to me here.

So now I'm just gonna be waiting for him to propose if we make up. Thinking maybe he'll do it in December bc were going to Australia. But now there's a black cloud hanging over the while thing. You can't try and propose twice. 

The decision was not made in hast. We've been together for 2 years now. We are in a real relationship so please keep the negative comments to your self. All I want to hear is positivity. We both have baggage and are trying to work it out. I only want to hear how can I work on our relationship bc I am not leaving him.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

sweetnothings4 said:


> All I want to hear is positivity.


lalalalalalalalalalalalala


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

Sweet nothing - I hope you're here to speak to us on here and not to use this thread as a way of indirectly showing him that you're hurt. And thereby intending your last post for an entirely different audience(him). 

He is right there. Don't be afraid to talk to him.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

sweetnothings4 said:


> We are in a real relationship so please keep the negative comments to your self. All I want to hear is positivity. We both have baggage and are trying to work it out. I only want to hear how can I work on our relationship bc I am not leaving him.


If you are only here for reinforcement and positive comments, that's fine. Ignore what you don't want to read.

You're not leaving him. Fine. So why keep posting?:scratchhead: You've made up your mind. How about just going with how you feel and trusting your own instincts?

We're nothing more than strangers out in cyberspace. We don't know you or your bf. Perhaps you should consider touching base with a counselor and discussing your feelings with him/her.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

We talked for a while and expressed our feelings. I was crying alot. He kept apologizing. Than he put the ring on my finger but I told him no not like this and I didn't look at it. If he's gonna propose to me I want it done right. He said the ring doesn't have to mean anything he just wants me to have it. I still said no and he took it back.

Than he came back in with a tiffany bag. Said it's one of my anniversary gifts and wants me to have it early. I open it and it's a ring I've had my eye on. I ask if you bought me an engagement ring why you get me another ring? This one is gold so I can match my outfits. 

We decided to want until the divorce has been finalized. And he make my moment even more special than was planned for this sunday


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

A healthy relationship should involve your helping with his children rather than taking him away from them.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> We talked for a while and expressed our feelings. I was crying alot. He kept apologizing. Than he put the ring on my finger but I told him no not like this and I didn't look at it. If he's gonna propose to me I want it done right. He said the ring doesn't have to mean anything he just wants me to have it. I still said no and he took it back.
> 
> Than he came back in with a tiffany bag. Said it's one of my anniversary gifts and wants me to have it early. I open it and it's a ring I've had my eye on. I ask if you bought me an engagement ring why you get me another ring? This one is gold so I can match my outfits.
> 
> We decided to want until the divorce has been finalized. And he make my moment even more special than was planned for this sunday


I'm not sure exactly what most of this info has to do with the thread- but i'm glad you're waiting? 

My ring was a beautiful 2.4 cushion cut neil lane- G, VVS1 - about 6 months before i left him- I got my first black eye. I took off the ring and he tried forcing it back on- this went on for about 5 minutes. About 30 minutes later- my finger was too swollen to fit the ring anyways- 

A ring means nothing- only thing that matters is the intentions of its giver. 

Your bf may not be physically abusive- but he is certainly very emotionally abusive- as well as has the emotions of a roller coaster. One reason why he likes young women? Easy to manipulate- but everything is a learning curve and you will learn to see thru him as he plays his cards. 

To post on this thread in the manner in which he did- fooled no one. He cares THAT MUCH?? that he wants to play off like- i'm mr. nice guy and i know- i've been a horrible person. Nice- but the problem is he is lying. 

Who cares about what their faceless anonymous gf is saying about them on an internet forum- so the extent of posting something like that? you're 50 something... what the heck is wrong with you. Its drama like something a bunch of high school kids would do.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

If all you want is people telling you what you want to hear, you should be writing in a journal, because we aren't mind readers. Maybe you could post what you want people to tell you, then they can all post it back to you.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

I want hear how I can work on our relationship


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, tell us more about it, then. What's wrong with it? What's a typical day/week like? Who does what? How much time do you spend by yourself? Do you do things you like to do by yourself or with friends? Does he? Who does what chores? How many hours' school are you attending? What happens when he gets mad? What happens when you get mad?


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> Well, tell us more about it, then. What's wrong with it? What's a typical day/week like? Who does what? How much time do you spend by yourself? Do you do things you like to do by yourself or with friends? Does he? Who does what chores? How many hours' school are you attending? What happens when he gets mad? What happens when you get mad?


He wants me contribute more to the house. Like cooking and cleaning. I mostly do the dishes and fold the laundry. I clean up the house about once a month. He does everything else. He's a clean freak I'm not a slob but I'm not obsessed with everything being sparkly clean. I contribute this to being young and I told him as I get older I'll take care of the house better. He says when he was my age he still kept everything clean. He works 9 to 5 everyday. I go to school from 11 30 to 8 pm. I also work 10 hours a week. He has the girls 3 nights a week and every other Saturday. I do spend time with my friends they come and spend the weekend with me. During that time he goes out with his friends.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How many days are you at school?


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



turnera said:


> How many days are you at school?


Monday thru Friday


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's pretty unusual, given that most students take 15 hours tops and that means about 15 hours a week of instruction; I take it the rest of the time you're in the library?

Do you take dirty dishes to the kitchen? Put your dirty clothes in the hamper? Take the full trash bag out to the bin when you notice it's full? There are a host of things you could be doing that would make life easier for him if you're leaving all the day to day cleaning on him, when he works full time.

I'm trying to get a sense of what this relationship looks like from his side.


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

I have 1-3 hour breaks in between classes. I'm take 4 which is 18 hours. I do take dirty dish to the kitchen. I do put my dirty clothes in the hamper. I don't take the trash out that's a guy job. His biggest complaint is when he asks me to clean or do something it takes me a couple of days to get to it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sweetnothings4 said:


> His biggest complaint is when he asks me to clean or do something it takes me a couple of days to get to it.


I'd complain, too! Why DOES it take you 2 days to run something into the other room or put away a pot?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Who would take out the trash if you lived by yourself?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What this really is about is equality. You expect him to provide a LOT to you. And he is happy to do so. But in return, he expects...wants...you to treat him with the same level of respect. If something is important to him, like say feeding the cat or whatever, and he says so - you NOT doing what he said he'd like you to do is a HUGE sign of disrespect. Or just plain taking him for granted. It may not seem like it, but you NOT doing something he asks for hurts him.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I want hear how I can work on our relationship


How about investigating free or next-to-nothing counseling? I'm sure your college has this available to students.

I just don't think this is necessarily the best forum for you. F-2-F contact with someone you can discuss these issues with would be far more beneficial.

It's difficult to "hear" what someone is saying when simply reading words. OTOH, discussing this with a counselor may help you clarify more what it is you want and need.

If you stay with this man, great. It just doesn't sound like a particularly healthy or mature relationship. JMO.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He's already paying for couples counseling.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

How is 4 classes 18 credits? Most classes are 3. Classes with labs are 4 credits such as micro and macroeconomics - and biology and chemistry. Some extensive nursing classes are variable. You're going for business. What kinds of general courses and business courses are you taking?

Just curious


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> How is 4 classes 18 credits? Most classes are 3. Classes with labs are 4 credits such as micro and macroeconomics - and biology and chemistry. Some extensive nursing classes are variable. You're going for business. What kinds of general courses and business courses are you taking?
> 
> Just curious


I'm taking anthropology 4 units , intro to Business 5 credits, Spanish 5 credits, and microeconomics 4units. Most classes are 4 units.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

sweetnothings4 said:


> I'm taking anthropology 4 units , intro to Business 5 credits, Spanish 5 credits, and microeconomics 4units. Most classes are 4 units.


I see- actually- most classes are 3 credits (its the standard) - but - there are plenty that are 4 credits. 

Thats interesting- i'm assuming You're going to a UC campus correct? Or is this a trade school?

also- does the state pay for graduate school? I'm sure nothing can be worse than not be able to have your parents raise you- and hope you take advantage of all the benefits that your hardships bring you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

IcePrincess28 said:


> I see- actually- most classes are 3 credits (its the standard) - but - there are plenty that are 4 credits.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats interesting- i'm assuming You're going to a UC campus correct? Or is this a trade school?



3 credits is the standard for semester schools. 5 is standard for lower division (freshman sophomore) quarter schools and most community colleges I've seen.


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## IcePrincess28 (Aug 4, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> 3 credits is the standard for semester schools. 5 is standard for lower division (freshman sophomore) quarter schools and most community colleges I've seen.


ahhh.... i see. The one institution i'm not familiar with. However i've always heard good things about CA's CCs. Such as UC's top ones- will give CC transfers first picks. (UCLA & UC Berkley)


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## sweetnothings4 (Sep 25, 2014)

*Re: Re: Am I being selfish?*



IcePrincess28 said:


> ahhh.... i see. The one institution i'm not familiar with. However i've always heard good things about CA's CCs. Such as UC's top ones- will give CC transfers first picks. (UCLA & UC Berkley)


I am going to a cc. UCs do give first pick to transfer students.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

IcePrincess28 said:


> ahhh.... i see. The one institution i'm not familiar with. However i've always heard good things about CA's CCs. Such as UC's top ones- will give CC transfers first picks. (UCLA & UC Berkley)


How do you not know about this? Well, I already know how....hehe

Most kids now days go to CC > Uni to save TON of money. But if Mom/Dad are sponsoring, above doesn't matter.


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