# EA maybe? Looking for advice.



## Rcoolb2002

I am hoping getting all of this out will help, and maybe some useful advice will follow. I have read almost all of the sticky threads and agree with 90% of it. This may be long. I am the husband.

Background: Married for 8, together for 10. She was 19. We have had a "perfect" relationship, at least in my eyes, until now. I never felt threatened, she was always so overly emotional towards me and giving. I was her "rock and soul and her forever". I recently left the military and we moved to the middle of the country to a great job for me, bought a house, got the kids (2) in school etc. My wife has had jobs on and off, primarily when I was deployed and then for about a year before we moved early this year.

Now: Clearly major changes in our life, no friends, new place, getting settled etc. Things were great! We have the most money we ever have, plans for the future, talking about starting a business together etc. About 2 months ago I notice, in a rather short period of time, that my wife quickly withdrew from me. The emotion stopped, she was withdrawn, always on her phone, no kisses, not texting me how she used to. Clearly something was going on. This kind of coincided with a new job. So I pressed her one night and would not let it go as she sat in the corner of the couch. She kept saying things like she didnt know what was wrong and didnt want to talk about it and stuff.

So finally she started talking. Came the dreaded .. im not sure we are IN LOVE anymore. The spark is gone. I'm not sure I want all of this, house, being a wife, etc etc. That was extremely rough and ive been basically in a pit since then.

After that she said she needed time, she needs to find herself, she needs to be able to go out with her new friends she has made at work etc. So she went out like 2 times and came home around 4am both times, had some good excuses for why it was so late. Then with problems she said she just needed space and I agreed she could go drink at a co-workers house that I have met and spend the night there because its far. That happened twice and obviously I was a wreck both times and after that told her I was not cool with it, spouses do not sleep out. Since then she hasn't really gone out, its my fault of course because I'm just not like other husbands who have no problem with their wives going out. 
During all of this she was very secretive with her phone. I saw her several times deleting conversations and messages. When confronted about it she claims that they were messages venting and complaining about her issues to friends that she just didnt really want me to see. Not that I have ever really seen any of her messages other than vague shoulder surfing. Sometime last week she gave me the passcode to her phone, but I tried it today and it doesn't work. 

So she has not gone out in a few weeks but she is always way later getting home from work than seems reasonable, and later than I ever remember her coming home before we had these problems. She is a manager of a restaurant so I can understand being at work a little bit late, but consistently getting home 3 hours after "close" just doesn't make sense to me. :scratchhead:

Attempting to see things from her perspective: I know we got married when she was fairly young. She hasn't ever had the "bar scene" or going out with friends without me. But since we have been together I have never done those things either. I feel that it is just putting yourself in a vulnerable position and not how a loving couple should WANT to behave. She says that she is unhappy where she is in her life at her age (30). Nothing is hers, and she has accomplished nothing other than be a wife and a mother, but I have been so successful and now that she has a successful job (that keeps her out til 1-2 am, and leaves me with the kids 4-5 nights a week after I get off work) she feels that I am trying to force her into being a housewife, and she is concerned she couldn't support herself if "something should happen to us". Some of these things I can logically understand. What is not logical to me is that 3 months ago she was bragging to her friends how successful I was and how we were gonna start a restaurant ... and then this .. so sudden.

One time in our first year we had a hiccup where she was hiding stuff on her phone and going outside to talk etc, and I found out that she was unhappy with me and while traveling she had met a guy "going through the same stuff" and made a connection. She admitted it was an EA and told me what I was doing wrong (unemployed and gaming alot). We fixed it and things were great ever since. This is dejavu almost with how she is acting and the phone thing.

My thoughts: I may have slipped some from the Alpha role. I left the military, I work a desk job and wear fancy clothes. I also basically stay in the house with the kids and don't do much because I'm trying to save money for things that I thought were common goals. So maybe this is part of the problem, and I can logically understand some of her complaints related to everything being mine. I can also admit that I am sort of a nice guy and always ask her opinion on everything. I never just do anything without consulting with her. She blames most of this on my "trust issue" and that I just need to be okay with her working her job that she is happy with and I need to let her go out with her friends. She openly said that she wants to have things that I am not involved in, she wants to have friends that are not my friends, she feels she doesnt have an identity that doesnt have me in it. Oddly, I dont desire these things. I want her involved in everything. I am proud of her and invite her to everything I do. 

So where to go from here? I have, and am still considering, GPS tracker on the car to see if she is really at work that late. She said if I ever distrust her so much as to get a PI that we are over. Could be a bluff I dont know. I do know that I want this to work out. But I also know that I cant be up at 12:30 1:00 am every night worried that my wife is cheating on me. I am trying to be strong and work on myself, go to the gym, do things, but its super hard when I have the kids almost every night. Help?


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## Malaise

Rcoolb2002 said:


> I am hoping getting all of this out will help, and maybe some useful advice will follow. I have read almost all of the sticky threads and agree with 90% of it. This may be long. I am the husband.
> 
> Background: Married for 8, together for 10. She was 19. We have had a "perfect" relationship, at least in my eyes, until now. I never felt threatened, she was always so overly emotional towards me and giving. I was her "rock and soul and her forever". I recently left the military and we moved to the middle of the country to a great job for me, bought a house, got the kids (2) in school etc. My wife has had jobs on and off, primarily when I was deployed and then for about a year before we moved early this year.
> 
> Now: Clearly major changes in our life, no friends, new place, getting settled etc. Things were great! We have the most money we ever have, plans for the future, talking about starting a business together etc. About 2 months ago I notice, in a rather short period of time, that my wife quickly withdrew from me. The emotion stopped, she was withdrawn, always on her phone, no kisses, not texting me how she used to. Clearly something was going on. This kind of coincided with a new job. So I pressed her one night and would not let it go as she sat in the corner of the couch. She kept saying things like she didnt know what was wrong and didnt want to talk about it and stuff.
> 
> So finally she started talking. Came the dreaded .. im not sure we are IN LOVE anymore. The spark is gone. I'm not sure I want all of this, house, being a wife, etc etc. That was extremely rough and ive been basically in a pit since then.
> 
> After that she said she needed time, she needs to find herself, she needs to be able to go out with her new friends she has made at work etc. So she went out like 2 times and came home around 4am both times, had some good excuses for why it was so late. Then with problems she said she just needed space and I agreed she could go drink at a co-workers house that I have met and spend the night there because its far. That happened twice and obviously I was a wreck both times and after that told her I was not cool with it, spouses do not sleep out. Since then she hasn't really gone out, its my fault of course because I'm just not like other husbands who have no problem with their wives going out.
> During all of this she was very secretive with her phone. I saw her several times deleting conversations and messages. When confronted about it she claims that they were messages venting and complaining about her issues to friends that she just didnt really want me to see. Not that I have ever really seen any of her messages other than vague shoulder surfing. Sometime last week she gave me the passcode to her phone, but I tried it today and it doesn't work.
> 
> So she has not gone out in a few weeks but she is always way later getting home from work than seems reasonable, and later than I ever remember her coming home before we had these problems. She is a manager of a restaurant so I can understand being at work a little bit late, but consistently getting home 3 hours after "close" just doesn't make sense to me. :scratchhead:
> 
> Attempting to see things from her perspective: I know we got married when she was fairly young. She hasn't ever had the "bar scene" or going out with friends without me. But since we have been together I have never done those things either. I feel that it is just putting yourself in a vulnerable position and not how a loving couple should WANT to behave. She says that she is unhappy where she is in her life at her age (30). Nothing is hers, and she has accomplished nothing other than be a wife and a mother, but I have been so successful and now that she has a successful job (that keeps her out til 1-2 am, and leaves me with the kids 4-5 nights a week after I get off work) she feels that I am trying to force her into being a housewife, and she is concerned she couldn't support herself if "something should happen to us". Some of these things I can logically understand. What is not logical to me is that 3 months ago she was bragging to her friends how successful I was and how we were gonna start a restaurant ... and then this .. so sudden.
> 
> One time in our first year we had a hiccup where she was hiding stuff on her phone and going outside to talk etc, and I found out that she was unhappy with me and while traveling she had met a guy "going through the same stuff" and made a connection. She admitted it was an EA and told me what I was doing wrong (unemployed and gaming alot). We fixed it and things were great ever since. This is dejavu almost with how she is acting and the phone thing.
> 
> My thoughts: I may have slipped some from the Alpha role. I left the military, I work a desk job and wear fancy clothes. I also basically stay in the house with the kids and don't do much because I'm trying to save money for things that I thought were common goals. So maybe this is part of the problem, and I can logically understand some of her complaints related to everything being mine. I can also admit that I am sort of a nice guy and always ask her opinion on everything. I never just do anything without consulting with her. She blames most of this on my "trust issue" and that I just need to be okay with her working her job that she is happy with and I need to let her go out with her friends. She openly said that she wants to have things that I am not involved in, she wants to have friends that are not my friends, she feels she doesnt have an identity that doesnt have me in it. Oddly, I dont desire these things. I want her involved in everything. I am proud of her and invite her to everything I do.
> 
> So where to go from here? I have, and am still considering, GPS tracker on the car to see if she is really at work that late. She said if I ever distrust her so much as to get a PI that we are over. Could be a bluff I dont know. I do know that I want this to work out. But I also know that I cant be up at 12:30 1:00 am every night worried that my wife is cheating on me. I am trying to be strong and work on myself, go to the gym, do things, but its super hard when I have the kids almost every night. Help?


So many red flags here.

It's the classic cheater's script we've seen so often.

About the PI : She knows a PI will find out everything she's doing and she's launching a preemptive strike. How did the subject of a PI come up? Was it her?

If it was, she's feeling guilty and afraid of what you'll find out.


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## farsidejunky

Thank you for your service from a retired Soldier.

This is no EA. Bank on it being a PA, and based on what you said, likely not her first. 

No amount of alpha will stop a serial cheater, which she clearly is. 

You should cut your losses. 

File. 180. Heal.

Sorry you are here, brother.


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## Quality

Don't bother with a GPS. She's in a full blown affair. Get the real goods with a Voice Activated Digital Recorder (buy one cheap at Walmart with cash so it's not on your credit card bill). use velcro to attached it under the drivers seat in her car (practice with it so you make sure you can plant it and retrieve it quickly without hitting the power button or pause button and not getting anything).

Don't ever mention you did this. Whatever evidence or conversations you hear, use the intel to gather other evidence and|or delay the confrontation so she has no idea how you found out. IF you divorce - ever - recording her may forever be used against you in the court of public opinion if not divorce or criminal court {it may be illegal in your state}.

Your marriage can survive her anger, a PI, a confrontation and even getting caught snooping on her whereas an ongoing and ever-deepening affair, not so much.

Military marriages are prone to these kind of things. She's used to being on her own and handling things and that she gave and gave and gave and NOW, it's HER turn. Classic wayward selfish entitled mindset coupled with an identity crisis. This is about her, not you. 

My wife and I are recovered after my wife's affair several decades ago and together we've helped 100's of other couples recovery from infidelity and other marital strife. There is hope for your marriage and family {if you want to recover - the choice is yours after you catch her}. You won't hear a lot of hopeful stories or be given a lot of recovery advice here as most of the recovered betrayed spouses simply move on from dark hurting places like this discussion forum in short order where the divorced and married but still miserable posters tend to stick around muchhhh longer. 

Bust her and expose her {not to be vindictive but the shine the light of day on the OM and the affair and get it to end as quickly as possible so MAYBE you can save your marriage}.

Here's a good free article on how to go about "surviving infidelity" by a retired respected Christian professional marriage counselor:  "How to Survive Infidelity"


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## SunCMars

She has gone from being wife and mother to being your enemy, the Taliban.
I agree, she likely has always cheated. Especially when you were deployed.

Now that you are closer together [time wise and in proximity] her wing stretching time has become evident.

I too, would be surprised if she has NOT had lovers continuously, the whole time you have been married.

I would suspect those numbers total half a dozen or more.

I saw a lot of this in my lifetime in the Reserves

She is not monogamous. Likely never was, never will be.

A shame. 

Catch her cheating for Posterity's sake. And then expose her to both families and divorce her. 

She sure is an entitled and selfish nut case.


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## Diana7

As others have said this sounds far more likely to be a PA than EA. She is also being very manipulative in threatening divorce if you use a private investigator. I think you need a VAR or private investigator to find proof and then you can confront her and decide what comes next.


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## Rcoolb2002

Malaise said:


> So many red flags here.
> 
> It's the classic cheater's script we've seen so often.
> 
> About the PI : She knows a PI will find out everything she's doing and she's launching a preemptive strike. How did the subject of a PI come up? Was it her?
> 
> If it was, she's feeling guilty and afraid of what you'll find out.


I mentioned the PI thing in a confrontation in an attempt to show her how serious I thought things had gotten and how much her actions were red flags towards infidelity not just depression and not being herself.



SunCMars said:


> She has gone from being wife and mother to being your enemy, the Taliban.
> I agree, she likely has always cheated. Especially when you were deployed.
> 
> Now that you are closer together [time wise and in proximity] her wing stretching time has become evident.
> 
> I too, would be surprised if she has NOT had lovers continuously, the whole time you have been married.
> 
> I would suspect those numbers total half a dozen or more.
> 
> I saw a lot of this in my lifetime in the Reserves
> 
> She is not monogamous. Likely never was, never will be.
> 
> A shame.
> 
> Catch her cheating for Posterity's sake. And then expose her to both families and divorce her.
> 
> She sure is an entitled and selfish nut case.


Probably my rose colored glasses but I really do not think she is a serial cheater. We have been too close for to long. Other than that first time, this is the only time we have had issues remotely close to this.



Diana7 said:


> As others have said this sounds far more likely to be a PA than EA. She is also being very manipulative in threatening divorce if you use a private investigator. I think you need a VAR or private investigator to find proof and then you can confront her and decide what comes next.


Thank you. I plan to try to get evidence. I hope I'm wrong.

She of course says she wants to work things out. We have scheduled some marriage counseling.

Some other flags: she is buying tons of clothes, she stopped cleaning the house basically, she does about 2 hours of makeup before work, she got 3 new piercings in the past month, and she has been buying clothes like they are going out of style.


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## GusPolinski

Likely more than an EA, and likely not her first “more than an EA”.

Dig. Get a GPS and VAR.

Her comment regarding the PI, BTW, is a semi-bluff: it’s both an attempt to avoid the scrutiny that will bring her behavior to light and and a way to achieve the end she knows will come about once you catch her cheating without being held in any way accountable for her choices.


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## Malaise

Rcoolb2002 said:


> *I mentioned the PI thing in a confrontation *in an attempt to show her how serious I thought things had gotten and how much her actions were red flags towards infidelity not just depression and not being herself.
> 
> Don't show your cards.
> 
> 
> Some other flags: she is buying tons of clothes, she stopped cleaning the house basically, she does about 2 hours of makeup before work, she got 3 new piercings in the past month, and she has been buying clothes like they are going out of style.
> 
> Yep, flags galore.


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## SunCMars

How can this end..
Well, how can this end..

Well.

She has an itch.
Beyond seven years, but in the orb, oh yeah.
Sounds Saturnine.

Sounds cyclic. Externally driven.

OOh, I heard the wringer washer change gears.

She is maturing.
Outgrowing an appendage.

You.

Sorry.

I hate it when they do this.
There should be a law. There is one in Saudi Arabia. 

Uh, no, that won't work either.


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## Don't Panic

Rcoolb2002 said:


> *Some other flags: she is buying tons of clothes, she stopped cleaning the house basically, she does about 2 hours of makeup before work, she got 3 new piercings in the past month, and she has been buying clothes like they are going out of style.*


All of this behavior, the comment about the PI-a deliberate, manipulative comment designed to proactively cut you off at the pass (what a load of bs btw)- is cause for you to break out the big shovels OP. 

Regardless of EA or PA, serial cheater or not, there is another man. Most likely a co-worker or a regular customer. Get the VAR as soon as possible. Stay calm and rational. WHEN you have concrete evidence your best bet is to calmly blow her world UP, UP, UP...hard 180, file for divorce with the papers being served at that restaurant (you don't have to go through with the actual divorce, filing the papers will wake her up regarding what she is losing), exposure, etc. You'll get lots of advice from this forum on how best to proceed, consider things with a level head as you do so. Get a plan in place before reacting, it will serve you well. You're already trained in this respect due to your military background. Good for you. 

You could probably get the answers you need by sitting in the parking lot and watching the establishment yourself for a night or two. My gut says she's beyond PA due to those 4am nights and the unusual three hours additional time spent "working". 

Don't show your cards. Don't explain or engage. Sorry you are here Rcoolb2002.


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## Thor

Rcoolb2002 said:


> I mentioned the PI thing in a confrontation in an attempt to show her how serious I thought things had gotten and how much her actions were red flags towards infidelity not just depression and not being herself.


And now you've had your one discussion with her about the seriousness of the situation. Move to action from here.

Repeatedly bringing up the topic in conversation only causes problems. If she is doing nothing wrong, you have become a weak unappealing man. You damage the marriage every time you bring up your insecurities. If she is in an affair of some sort, you drive her away _and_ you alert her to your concerns, resulting in her hiding it even better.

It is a sucky situation for you. There are no simple answers. Now that you have verbalized how serious this is to you, the ball is in her court to wake up and be an adult. She has to choose good boundaries with her behavior. She has to choose to increase her efforts within the marriage. You cannot do this for her, and there's not some magic amount of discussion which will wake her up. More discussion just makes you look weak, which is counterproductive.

VAR, GPS, review all the cell phone records, if you can get access to her phone then look at all her messages and apps.

Carefully search the house and her car, but do so without being detected. Make sure everything goes back exactly as you found it. You're looking for anything which doesn't fit. Condoms or condom wrappers. Hotel key cards or other souvenirs from trysts. Underwear under the seat in the car (I know someone who caught his wife this way when cleaning up the car). Any sexy stuff hidden anywhere. A burner phone. Check every hidden compartment in the car. Check inside shoes in her closet. You may not find anything but you should search just out of due diligence.


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## Bananapeel

You could also run a phone recovery program to pickup her deleted text messages on her phone. Just grab her phone and a laptop, and go somewhere private for a few hours.


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## Magnesium

She's working in a restaurant? Oh boy. Restaurants are notorious for having salacious work environments. 

And, yeah, your wife is in full blown PA. I know you want to believe that she is not actually screwing someone, but believe it. 

Serial cheaters, like serial killers, can lay dormant for awhile....years and years even between affairs/murders. What makes it serial is the trigger and the act. And, like serial killers, most people never believe it could have been them once they're discovered. 

Do NOT go into marriage counseling ...at least not yet. Get individual counseling for yourself immediately, though. While she is in full blown affair, she will only use the counseling sessions to paint you as the enemy and she will manipulate the therapist as well as you through this medium. It is useless at best, and extremely damaging at worst.






Rcoolb2002 said:


> I mentioned the PI thing in a confrontation in an attempt to show her how serious I thought things had gotten and how much her actions were red flags towards infidelity not just depression and not being herself.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably my rose colored glasses but I really do not think she is a serial cheater. We have been too close for to long. Other than that first time, this is the only time we have had issues remotely close to this.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. I plan to try to get evidence. I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> She of course says she wants to work things out. We have scheduled some marriage counseling.
> 
> Some other flags: she is buying tons of clothes, she stopped cleaning the house basically, she does about 2 hours of makeup before work, she got 3 new piercings in the past month, and she has been buying clothes like they are going out of style.


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## WilliamM

Other husbands are cool with their wive's staying out until 4 AM?

No.

Where do you get your ideas of boundaries?

She is way outside the lines, and you are very confused about what the lines should be.

She almost certainly had and is having a physical affair with someone. You let her run wild. I doubt you were ever alpha. Sorry, but hey, that's just the way it is.

If you think you want to keep her you need to shock her into wanting to stay. File for divorce, and kick her out. Then she can either come clean with the whole truth, and become a totally new woman or you can move on with your head high.

Right now you are just being some wishy washy nice guy letting her have her way and have no respect for you at all. No respect for you at all.


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## C3156

First off, from one vet to another, thank you for your service.

Previous posters have pretty much hit the nail on the head. There is a reason your wife is dressing up, putting on makeup, and staying out late. I suspect it has nothing to do with closing the books before she leaves the restaurant. Trust your gut, it is most likely right. But remember one thing, this is not your fault. No one forced your wife to potentially have an affair, she did this willingly and of her own accord. Don't feel guilty because of some perceived short-coming on your part, she is doing this of her own free will.

Now you are stuck wondering what to do about your wife. As we do in the military, come up with your plan of action. 

Start with the basic question, would you be willing to take her back and forgive (not forget) her possible transgressions if she is truly remorseful? It can be more difficult than you think.

Some other ideas:
- Gather your evidence 
- Develop your list of actions based on the evidence (Throw her out, expose, counseling, ect)
- Make an inventory of assets & finances
- Get a couple of consults with attorneys (free of low cost) to discuss options
- Study your states statutes on divorce, every state is a little different (Knowledge is power)
- Work out to blow off some steam
- Eat right and try to get enough sleep
- Consider opening another bank account in the event you end up separating 
- Spend time with you kids, they grow up quick

And make sure to check back as there is a lot of good information to be had here.

Good luck.


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## Rcoolb2002

WilliamM said:


> Other husbands are cool with their wive's staying out until 4 AM?
> 
> No.
> 
> Where do you get your ideas of boundaries?
> 
> She is way outside the lines, and you are very confused about what the lines should be.
> 
> She almost certainly had and is having a physical affair with someone. You let her run wild. I doubt you were ever alpha. Sorry, but hey, that's just the way it is.
> 
> If you think you want to keep her you need to shock her into wanting to stay. File for divorce, and kick her out. Then she can either come clean with the whole truth, and become a totally new woman or you can move on with your head high.
> 
> Right now you are just being some wishy washy nice guy letting her have her way and have no respect for you at all. No respect for you at all.


She is blaming me for being rediculous and says that her other friends husbands are okay with them going out drinking. Not particularly to 4am... it just happens that she works till at least 11 everynight so yeah.

I probably never was alpha, but I felt that she was working to keep me, not the other way around. I have always been the successful, decision maker, at least as far as money and such was concerned. But I definitely dote on her and give in to whatever she has asked for.



Magnesium said:


> She's working in a restaurant? Oh boy. Restaurants are notorious for having salacious work environments.
> 
> And, yeah, your wife is in full blown PA. I know you want to believe that she is not actually screwing someone, but believe it.
> 
> Serial cheaters, like serial killers, can lay dormant for awhile....years and years even between affairs/murders. What makes it serial is the trigger and the act. And, like serial killers, most people never believe it could have been them once they're discovered.
> 
> Do NOT go into marriage counseling ...at least not yet. Get individual counseling for yourself immediately, though. While she is in full blown affair, she will only use the counseling sessions to paint you as the enemy and she will manipulate the therapist as well as you through this medium. It is useless at best, and extremely damaging at worst.


How do I get out of the already scheduled counseling? She is using this as our "will solve everything" and we just need to make it to there .. "unless I'm throwing in the towel." 


So since the code to her phone doesnt work, should I bring that back up again and try to get the code? 

My hardest struggle is not bringing this up and just telling her everything. I almost did today. Tell her all of the trust issues, like that is going to somehow fix something. I struggle to disconnect from her and not just fret all damn day about this, and cry to her.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

You have gotten excellent advice here so far. Read each line and digest. The read flags have been pointed out in your first post. Follows the cheaters script to the T. We see it on here on TAM sadly over and over, the same sad story. 


Don't show all your cards yet, Go to the counseling. Point out the inconsistencies in her behavior. Then let her believe all is ok. You want her to let her guard down so she slips up. 

You need to get phone code without her knowing. Perhaps install wireless recorders around house where she will not find. Inside a teddy bear, etc. Be creative, Plenty here on TAM can help you with that, 

Does she drive to work? VAR in car and GPS. A VAR hidden in house where she might talk freely when you cannot eavesdrop. 

These are things to start doing. 

Stay strong. Do not sit her down and tell her everything. It's pointless to ask cheaters questions that you don't already have the answers too. Cheaters lie through their teeth. They swear on their children's soul they are not cheating. Literally. When they swear that you know they are cheating. 

Try and stay strong.


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## farsidejunky

Rcoolb2002 said:


> She is blaming me for being rediculous and says that her other friends husbands are okay with them going out drinking. Not particularly to 4am... it just happens that she works till at least 11 everynight so yeah.
> 
> I probably never was alpha, but I felt that she was working to keep me, not the other way around. I have always been the successful, decision maker, at least as far as money and such was concerned. But I definitely dote on her and give in to whatever she has asked for.
> 
> 
> 
> How do I get out of the already scheduled counseling? She is using this as our "will solve everything" and we just need to make it to there .. "unless I'm throwing in the towel."
> 
> 
> So since the code to her phone doesnt work, should I bring that back up again and try to get the code?
> 
> My hardest struggle is not bringing this up and just telling her everything. I almost did today. Tell her all of the trust issues, like that is going to somehow fix something. I struggle to disconnect from her and not just fret all damn day about this, and cry to her.


Why?

You know what's going on.

Don't let her convince you that just because somebody else is okay with a ****ty arrangement, you should be as well. If you're not okay with it, stick to your damn guns.

As to the counseling appointment:

"Wife, since it is clear that you're more committed to people outside the marriage then you are within the marriage, and counseling is for people committed to their marriage, I see no point in going. I will be consulting with an attorney on X day. In the meantime, it would be a good idea for the two of us to start working on dividing assets."

Then go do something you want to do. Start focusing on how you will live once you are rid of her.

If she tries to engage in any conversation about how you failed in a relationship, simply hold your hand up and say:

"Discussions about relationships are for people who are committed to each other. Since it's clear you are not committed, I have no interest in discussing it with you. It's hard for me to hear your words when your actions speak so loudly."


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## Rcoolb2002

Thanks. I checked and phone records and she is texting someone all hours of the day and night. Reverse search on google an i know who it is. Someone she has brought to the house and has used as a ....well you met xXxX.

Its gonna be really hard to go home now.


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## jlg07

Get to a lawyer, find out how to protect yourself and access to your children, start keeping documentation about all of this -- her being away from her kids till all hours, what YOU do for them etc.. Start protecting your finances as well. This won't end well. I would still consider getting a PI and/or VAR recordings so that you have proof. This will allow you to shoot down any re-write of your marital history that you were the bad guy. VERY sorry that you are in this situation.


----------



## arbitrator

*Late to the party as usual, but this is nothing more than a typical cheaters script! And my friend, it ain’t just an EA!

Get a PI into the middle of this ASAP! And start interviewing good family law attorneys!*


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thanks. I checked and phone records and she is texting someone all hours of the day and night. Reverse search on google an i know who it is. Someone she has brought to the house and has used as a ....well you met xXxX.
> 
> Its gonna be really hard to go home now.


You should ask the mods to move this to the Coping with Infidelity section. Is there any chance she can find this thread ? If so ask for it to move to the Private section where it is impossible for her to find with out an account on TAM, Need like 30 posts to do that.

Ok, you have proof. Whatever you do don't confront yet. If you do she will blame-shift and deny and all you will have is a big fight. 

Under no circumstances should you move out She demands it say no. Any conversations you have with her that can escalate keep a voice activated recorder on you all all times. 

My advice. Quietly play dumb, see a lawyer and and have her served. On that day she is served separate all finances, cancel all joint credit cards and joint bank accounts. On that day she is served (only if attorney says it is ok) move all her stuff into storage with one month paid in advance. Have key sent to her after she is served. On that day expose her infidelity to all close family and friends. If her new POS boyfriend has a significant other make she she is informed, too. Talk directly to her on phone. Anything else he can intercept and deny. 

If you cannot legally move her out of house on serve day throw out your marital bed and put a padlock on the bedroom door. Move all her stuff into spare bedroom or the living room. The bedroom is yours. She can go sleep outside in a teepee for all you care. 

Then go dark and wait while she blows up your phone. Do not return any calls. Let everything go to voice mail and save. 

This is the only way you can save your marriage. She wants out she can stay out. She comes crawling back you can decide if you want to reconcile, reconciliation being another thread. 

Sorry you are here. Stay strong. Don't try and nice her back, that repels them and makes you look like a fool.


----------



## Rcoolb2002

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> You should ask the mods to move this to the Coping with Infidelity section. Is there any chance she can find this thread ? If so ask for it to move to the Private section where it is impossible for her to find with out an account on TAM, Need like 30 posts to do that.
> 
> Ok, you have proof. Whatever you do don't confront yet. If you do she will blame-shift and deny and all you will have is a big fight.
> 
> Under no circumstances should you move out She demands it say no. Any conversations you have with her that can escalate keep a voice activated recorder on you all all times.
> 
> My advice. Quietly play dumb, see a lawyer and and have her served. On that day she is served separate all finances, cancel all joint credit cards and joint bank accounts. On that day she is served (only if attorney says it is ok) move all her stuff into storage with one month paid in advance. Have key sent to her after she is served. On that day expose her infidelity to all close family and friends. If her new POS boyfriend has a significant other make she she is informed, too. Talk directly to her on phone. Anything else he can intercept and deny.
> 
> If you cannot legally move her out of house on serve day throw out your marital bed and put a padlock on the bedroom door. Move all her stuff into spare bedroom or the living room. The bedroom is yours. She can go sleep outside in a teepee for all you care.
> 
> Then go dark and wait while she blows up your phone. Do not return any calls. Let everything go to voice mail and save.
> 
> This is the only way you can save your marriage. She wants out she can stay out. She comes crawling back you can decide if you want to reconcile, reconciliation being another thread.
> 
> Sorry you are here. Stay strong. Don't try and nice her back, that repels them and makes you look like a fool.


Thanks for the freeway advice but it all came out in the wash tonight. She admitted to all of it. I got her phone and saw the damage. Ea + beginning of pa. She told this guy she loves him. Someone at her work. I love this girl so much I will likely mess it up. She has been lying to my face for a month. I am talking to a lawyer tomorrow. 80% of cash assets are in bank accounts with my name only. Every asset is in my name. 

She says she wants me. She called him immediately and told him I knew and gave me the phone to say my words. She says she is telling her boss tomorrow and quitting her job. 

I know I'm an idiot. That is what love does, but i do want to be protected too. Any advice for where I'm at now? I cannot kick her out and I cannot keep her from her kids on Christmas. I really think she is a good person who lost her way. But I will be forever vigilant.


----------



## manwithnoname

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thanks for the freeway advice but it all came out in the wash tonight. She admitted to all of it. I got her phone and saw the damage. Ea + beginning of pa. She told this guy she loves him. Someone at her work. I love this girl so much I will likely mess it up. She has been lying to my face for a month. I am talking to a lawyer tomorrow. 80% of cash assets are in bank accounts with my name only. Every asset is in my name.
> 
> She says she wants me. She called him immediately and told him I knew and gave me the phone to say my words. She says she is telling her boss tomorrow and quitting her job.
> 
> I know I'm an idiot. That is what love does, but i do want to be protected too. Any advice for where I'm at now? I cannot kick her out and I cannot keep her from her kids on Christmas. I really think she is a good person who lost her way. But I will be forever vigilant.


She'd be the one who ruined Christmas, not you. You obviously want her. Her calling him immediately and following through with quitting her job is a good thing. Her saying she wants you is suspect. She told him she loves him, that hurts. Let her prove she wants you. Divorce her and then see who she pursues as a single woman.

Then it should only be complete transparency from then on.


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## Lostinthought61

Now comes the real work, first of all you don't need to make any decision now about divorce or staying with her, right now you need the following:

1. She need to tell you everything that has been going on in writing timelines, acts...etc.
2. She needs to come clean to her parents and your....if you divorce she needs to be the guilty party not you
3. What ever you brought her Christmas return.....no rewarding bad behavior 
4.you will need time to process this...and it may mean time away from her
5. The kids will she this strange behavior between you to...she needs to,tell them that mommy has been bad to daddy 
6. Both of you need marriage counseling but also individual couceling even if you divorce you will need this
7. She needs to do all the hard lifting to save this marriage if it is that important 
8. If this guy is married expose to his wife..if your wife says she doesn't want to then tell her it's either him or you.

Sadly remind her that she has ruined every Christmas now for you..I am sorry Rcool.


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## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thanks for the freeway advice but it all came out in the wash tonight. She admitted to all of it. I got her phone and saw the damage. Ea + beginning of pa. She told this guy she loves him. Someone at her work. I love this girl so much I will likely mess it up. She has been lying to my face for a month. I am talking to a lawyer tomorrow. 80% of cash assets are in bank accounts with my name only. Every asset is in my name.
> 
> She says she wants me. She called him immediately and told him I knew and gave me the phone to say my words. She says she is telling her boss tomorrow and quitting her job.
> 
> I know I'm an idiot. That is what love does, but i do want to be protected too. Any advice for where I'm at now? I cannot kick her out and I cannot keep her from her kids on Christmas. I really think she is a good person who lost her way. But I will be forever vigilant.


Just because you found out doesn't mean it'll stop. Cheaters lie a lot and you cannot trust her. Oh, it was a full blown PA. Bank on it.

If you're smart you will inform the other mans wife immediately without any warning and don't tell your wife. She'll warn him if you do.

Helping hide their affair is the worst thing you can do at this time. Saying nothing will only enable it.

Better wake up here.


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## Diana7

What does she mean by 'beginning of PA?' Kissing? Fondling? Oral sex? One time of full sex? Two times?

I do think that you need to know the full truth and so does his wife.


----------



## Malaise

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thanks for the freeway advice but it all came out in the wash tonight. She admitted to all of it. I got her phone and saw the damage. Ea + beginning of pa. She told this guy she loves him. Someone at her work. I love this girl so much I will likely mess it up. She has been lying to my face for a month. I am talking to a lawyer tomorrow. 80% of cash assets are in bank accounts with my name only. Every asset is in my name.
> 
> *She says she wants me.
> 
> *Only after you found out. Funny how that works.
> 
> She called him immediately and told him I knew and gave me the phone to say my words. She says she is telling her boss tomorrow and quitting her job.
> 
> I know I'm an idiot. That is what love does, but i do want to be protected too. Any advice for where I'm at now? I cannot kick her out and I cannot keep her from her kids on Christmas. I really think she is a good person who lost her way. But I will be forever vigilant.


----------



## Rcoolb2002

Marc878 said:


> Just because you found out doesn't mean it'll stop. Cheaters lie a lot and you cannot trust her. Oh, it was a full blown PA. Bank on it.
> 
> If you're smart you will inform the other mans wife immediately without any warning and don't tell your wife. She'll warn him if you do.
> 
> Helping hide their affair is the worst thing you can do at this time. Saying nothing will only enable it.
> 
> Better wake up here.


I'm not hiding it. He isnt married. He is a single young at her work. One of her employees technically so I will be telling her boss even if she quits.



Diana7 said:


> What does she mean by 'beginning of PA?' Kissing? Fondling? Oral sex? One time of full sex? Two times?
> 
> I do think that you need to know the full truth and so does his wife.


I told her I assume sex, and she said fair enough she cabt convince me otherwise. Possibly worse she was texting him that she loved him.

I have a consultation today with divorce attorney.


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## Rcoolb2002

She basically lied to my face for two months claiming to be working late while messing with him amd coming home to me and kissing me and saying she loved me.


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## Yeswecan

Rcoolb2002 said:


> She basically lied to my face for two months claiming to be working late while messing with him amd coming home to me and kissing me and saying she loved me.


As a result, your WW can not be trusted with anything that she says. Trust is gone. The marriage what was is forever gone. You will get more TT as time goes on. Your WW is currently sorry she got caught. I would seriously consider having her served.


----------



## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> She basically lied to my face for two months claiming to be working late while messing with him amd coming home to me and kissing me and saying she loved me.


An EA with contact is always a PA.

If you need the absolute proof and she denies it schedule a polygraph.

Her attitude will change very quickly


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Rcoolb2002 said:


> She basically lied to my face for two months claiming to be working late while messing with him amd coming home to me and kissing me and saying she loved me.


Demand she get tested for STDs. You should too. Cheaters cheat on using protection. 

Her claims that the affair wasn't physical are bald faced lies. She didn't sneak around for 2 months giving him hand jobs and head. He boned her six ways to Sunday. 

Cheaters lie and minimize. Always.


----------



## Edmund

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thanks for the freeway advice but it all came out in the wash tonight. She admitted to all of it. I got her phone and saw the damage. Ea + beginning of pa. She told this guy she loves him. Someone at her work. I love this girl so much I will likely mess it up. She has been lying to my face for a month. I am talking to a lawyer tomorrow. 80% of cash assets are in bank accounts with my name only. Every asset is in my name.
> 
> She says she wants me. She called him immediately and told him I knew and gave me the phone to say my words. She says she is telling her boss tomorrow and quitting her job.
> 
> I know I'm an idiot. That is what love does, but i do want to be protected too. Any advice for where I'm at now? I cannot kick her out and I cannot keep her from her kids on Christmas. I really think she is a good person who lost her way. But I will be forever vigilant.


You are not an idiot.

"She says she wants me." She doesn't, that is obvious.

You have little choice here, but to divorce her. It has been said that once a woman falls "out of love" with a man and falls "in love" with another man, she can not go back. This is called "branch swinging" - one man at a time. In contrast to men, who it is said can actually be in love with several women at the same time.

This betrayal is very sad, given your history, and the effect it is going to have on your children.

In regard to your post above, it varies from state to state but it is probably not going to matter whose name cash assets are in, the court will divide them. If some assets are from inheritance, those might be removed from divisible marital property, but it depends on state law. If you just moved, less than 6 months ago, you may be subject to jurisdiction of your previous state. Obviously, don't accept any of what I am saying on this forum, consult a lawyer immediately.

Quitting her job is probably not a good idea for you if you are going to divorce (it lowers her income unless she gets another job somewhere). It is a good idea for you if you are going to reconcile (to get her away from her lover). Instead of quitting, she should fire her lover, or have her boss do it (I thought she was the boss at the restaurant). If she has less or no income, you may have to pay more in spousal support, and you will probably have to pay child support if she becomes a stay at home mom. Court may rule that kids stay in house, which means she moves her new man into your house with your kids, while you are paying for it all. Nightmare.

Shower your kids with love now, they will know something is up.

Good luck and God bless you.


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## MattMatt

@Rcoolb2002

1) Polygraph to identify how many times she has cheated throughout your relationship/marriage

2) STD/HIV tests

3) DNA tests on your children


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## eric1

Rcoolb2002 said:


> I'm not hiding it. He isnt married. He is a single young at her work. One of her employees technically so I will be telling her boss even if she quits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told her I assume sex, and she said fair enough she cabt convince me otherwise. Possibly worse she was texting him that she loved him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a consultation today with divorce attorney.




You are quite literally doing every step that you should right now. It may not feel like it but you are doing a GREAT job


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## TX-SC

It sounds like your wife needs to be your ex wife to me.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Rcoolb2002

Thank you for all the of the great advice guys. I have followed through with most of it other than getting full evidence. I got what I needed for her to confess, while still lying. I went and talked to several divorce lawyers and got all of the options.

Today we did more talking and I sat her down and read all of her love letters that she ever wrote me out loud to her while she cried and explained that we were back before all of those where she was a girl i don't know and additionally absolutely cannot trust.

I talked about a polygraph and kept digging, and kept looking at her cues and dug into every lie. She finally confessed to going all of the way, oral, everything. Then she called OM on speaker and said the things she didn't say on D-Day. She told him that she doesn't love him and she realizes now that he is a piece of trash for being willing to rip apart a marriage and a family. She also told him that she told me that they had sex, and she told him that it was over and she will never contact him and he can never contact her. She quit her job, she added my fingerprint to her phone, and we had a very long discussion of how hard this will be. I actually sent her a very long post from the Dealing with Infidelity forum explaining what she has to look forward to if we undertake staying together. And what she can expect from me, and what I may be going through and how I may react towards her. 

Based on our history, what she has shown me through our entire marriage until now, and how she explained to me why she did what she did, I think that I will regret not giving her a second chance. Everyone screws up somewhere in their lives where they don't have experience and they learn from it (maybe). I am willing to give her that second chance with her having the full knowledge that if I sense any of the things (that i picked up very quickly) that I did two months ago, I am a ghost.

I also told her, and do plan, that we will be getting a divorce. So that there are no barriers and we are only in it for each other and the family. I told her she fully deserves what the court will give her for the 8 happy years of marriage we have so far, but she effectively ended it when she broke her vows, and we have to start new. She does not deserve anything going forward until her actions match what I think constitutes someone I want to be married to. I don't want to think she is in it for the safety net and the thought that I will be more successful later in life. I also need to know that I am not staying in it for the fear of divorce and losing material assets. Legally I'm not sure how this would work if we still live together but I will investigate. She is predictably upset by that but she says she will do whatever I need to, to try to work this out but it cuts her deep. And I laughed and said ... you really have room to talk about cutting deep or feelings? She peaced out on our marriage when things got hard already.

We are both going to get counseling, and try to change our lives and start with a new relationship. I plan to read No More Mister Nice Guy and find where I lost respect in her eyes. I am not going into this as a dog trying to win her back. But I can realize that there were things in our marriage that got us to this point. Not my fault that she cheated, but partially my fault that our marriage wasn't up to the task of keeping us together.

I will continue to read and continue to get advice and continue to learn. I think what I had for the past 8 years is worth the risk of getting hurt again. The hurt next time may be less because I already know what to expect. I also explained to her that the future will not be the same, but there is the possibility that it could be better, and she has the more monumental task of dealing with me. We will see there goes, and I am fully aware that I am setting myself up for possible pain. However the pain of the last two months will never happen again, next time I will just realize that she really is a serial cheater and ghost. I guess she is like a drug, sometimes you do crazy things to get it.

Thanks again for all of the advice and for people that try to help others out just from the kindness of their hearts. There is hope for humanity.


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## Marc878

If you're smart you'll expose to her other mans wife.

Don't leave it unfinished or you will regret it later


----------



## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thank you for all the of the great advice guys. I have followed through with most of it other than getting full evidence. I got what I needed for her to confess, while still lying. I went and talked to several divorce lawyers and got all of the options.
> 
> Today we did more talking and I sat her down and read all of her love letters that she ever wrote me out loud to her while she cried and explained that we were back before all of those where she was a girl i don't know and additionally absolutely cannot trust.
> 
> I talked about a polygraph and kept digging, and kept looking at her cues and dug into every lie. She finally confessed to going all of the way, oral, everything. Then she called OM on speaker and said the things she didn't say on D-Day. She told him that she doesn't love him and she realizes now that he is a piece of trash for being willing to rip apart a marriage and a family. She also told him that she told me that they had sex, and she told him that it was over and she will never contact him and he can never contact her. She quit her job, she added my fingerprint to her phone, and we had a very long discussion of how hard this will be. I actually sent her a very long post from the Dealing with Infidelity forum explaining what she has to look forward to if we undertake staying together. And what she can expect from me, and what I may be going through and how I may react towards her.
> 
> Based on our history, what she has shown me through our entire marriage until now, and how she explained to me why she did what she did, I think that I will regret not giving her a second chance. Everyone screws up somewhere in their lives where they don't have experience and they learn from it (maybe). I am willing to give her that second chance with her having the full knowledge that if I sense any of the things (that i picked up very quickly) that I did two months ago, I am a ghost.
> 
> I also told her, and do plan, that we will be getting a divorce. So that there are no barriers and we are only in it for each other and the family. I told her she fully deserves what the court will give her for the 8 happy years of marriage we have so far, but she effectively ended it when she broke her vows, and we have to start new. She does not deserve anything going forward until her actions match what I think constitutes someone I want to be married to. I don't want to think she is in it for the safety net and the thought that I will be more successful later in life. I also need to know that I am not staying in it for the fear of divorce and losing material assets. Legally I'm not sure how this would work if we still live together but I will investigate. She is predictably upset by that but she says she will do whatever I need to, to try to work this out but it cuts her deep. And I laughed and said ... you really have room to talk about cutting deep or feelings? She peaced out on our marriage when things got hard already.
> 
> We are both going to get counseling, and try to change our lives and start with a new relationship. I plan to read No More Mister Nice Guy and find where I lost respect in her eyes. I am not going into this as a dog trying to win her back. *But I can realize that there were things in our marriage that got us to this point. Not my fault that she cheated, but partially my fault that our marriage wasn't up to the task of keeping us together.*
> 
> I will continue to read and continue to get advice and continue to learn. I think what I had for the past 8 years is worth the risk of getting hurt again. The hurt next time may be less because I already know what to expect. I also explained to her that the future will not be the same, but there is the possibility that it could be better, and she has the more monumental task of dealing with me. We will see there goes, and I am fully aware that I am setting myself up for possible pain. However the pain of the last two months will never happen again, next time I will just realize that she really is a serial cheater and ghost. I guess she is like a drug, sometimes you do crazy things to get it.
> 
> Thanks again for all of the advice and for people that try to help others out just from the kindness of their hearts. There is hope for humanity.


That's true in every relationship. She's not perfect either. Did you got out and screw someone else because of her imperfections? 

See the difference?


----------



## farsidejunky

I think your approach sounds healthy, Rcool.

If I could make another book suggestion for you, for after you read NMMNG.

Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine. It is a simple, easy read, and explains in great detail how to identify the most important principles in your life, then how to take action upon those principles. Given your want to reconcile, this book would be very helpful for you.

In the meantime, keep posting. There are some very helpful folks who have successfully reconciled (no rug sweeping) worse situations than you. @drifting on comes to mind. They can be valuable in this journey.

My last word of caution. Your wife is going to screw up. She is in too bad of a place not to right now. She will fear this. It is both good AND bad. 

Given this, you need to have a very clear understanding of which screw ups are forgiveable, and which will end reconciliation.

Breaking no contact?

Challenging you on transparency?

Know your boundaries well.

Then brace yourself. This will likely be harder than anything you have ever done.


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## Marc878

Just because you know doesn't mean it'll end it.

That's why it's important to tell his wife.

Good luck


----------



## drifting on

Rcool 

Thank you for your service, being a service member can be very difficult with the sacrifices a service member must make. I am going to pm a plan and advice for you, but it may take a few days. Christmas is here and my twin boys are the perfect age for Christmas fun. I plan to spend as much time as I can with them. That is also what I recommend for you to do, spend time with your kids, get lost in their innocence and fun of Christmas. Your wife can do whatever, and you should expose her to her parents and yours. Do not go scorched earth, not yet without legal advice from your attorney. 

Without telling your wife, schedule a polygraph with someone who is used by police departments. My fear is that you only know of two affairs and that there may be more. At this point if her lips move you can’t trust what she says. She gave you trickle truth which means there is still probably more that you don’t know. So your course of action is to withdraw from her, the 180 and let her think she has lost you forever. If you do plan on reconciling I suggest you think it over for a minimum of six months. Tell her both divorce and reconciliation are on the table, her actions will make your decision. 

Your wife isn’t remorseful, not one bit, but she is regretful. How do I know, the same reason you know, she blamed it all on OM and how she can’t believe OM was willing to break up a marriage and family. Know this, your wife decided, your wife chose to have sex with this OM. She wasn’t forced, coerced, or raped, instead she made a conscious choice to have sex. Remind your wife of this any time she blames anything on the affair. It’s hers to own solely.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Marc878 said:


> Just because you know doesn't mean it'll end it.
> 
> That's why it's important to tell his wife.
> 
> Good luck


 Pretty sure he said OM was a younger, single guy.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

@Rcoolb2002 ,

I think your plan is solid. It seems you have a grasp on this that few manage to get as quickly as you have. Stick to your guns and stay the course. Make sure you run ALL contingencies of her staying with you after divorce by your lawyer to make sure there is no way for you to get burned if she cheats on you again in the future. Cover your a$$.


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## eric1

I agree, this plan has some gravitas. I like it a lot.


----------



## manfromlamancha

As others are saying she is sorry she got caught and doesn't want to lose something that resembles stability etc for her and the kids. This may be tough to hear but there is NO love involved here.

Start with the flippant way during your first conversation she said "fair enough, I cannot convince you otherwise" when you assumed she had sex with the POS. Second, the way she blamed him for the affair. She is older, senior to him at work and made this decision. The guy did not stand a chance - older pretty woman (his boss) making a no commitments move on him and offering blowjobs and sex! Would you blame him? Or her? Finally the ease with which she lied etc and the way she gave him a blow job and then returned home and kissed you on the lips - how disgustingly disrespectful!

And you can bet that this is not her first gig! If you dig deeper and go for a poly you will find that she has done this before. Too smooth for it to be her first time. This is not a case of a "good person" who made a one time mistake! You are still looking at this through rose tinted glasses. This is a morally bankrupt person doing what pleases her because she can manipulate you. Do not fall for this.

I think you are doing the right thing in divorcing her. As for then seeing where the relationship goes, I have two views on this - either you are very careful to make sure that you are properly disentangled from her in terms of assets, finance, custody etc (or else you are making it even more complex and difficult the next time she does this) OR I would say, why bother with this - you will NEVER get over this.

Sorry for the harsh words, but I hate to see good men like you go down like this.

Take care and thank you for your service for the free world!


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## Rcoolb2002

Thanks again for the messages.

To make things clear, she never blamed him for this. She has taken all of the blame on herself. The comment about him on the phone was more along the lines of understanding that he is not a good guy since he would knowingly do that with a married woman.

While I understand the 6 month thing, I can't do that. Just not me. If I split I'm gone. I understand the highly likely chance that she is serial..but honestly my gut says no. And my gut was 100% right each time we have had issues before. 

I like what she gives me and my family when we are good. I'd rather move forward and try to have a possible good future with her than attempt to dig up the past and ruin my good memories. I don't want to know if the past 8 years were a scam because honestly I was perfectly happy. I am at peace with what she gave me. If she was getting more on the side...well she has had one hell of a life then. 

Her family knows, and my close family knows. But I have seen on her phone where she told her co-worker friend that she is doing this for her kids and to work on her family. No mention of wanting to be with me anywhere. But that's what I expect honestly. She was unhappy with me before, that doesn't change overnight because she got caught. She may realize what she was throwing away though, in everything. And with time whatever made her love me before may come back. And if it doesn't I am satisfied that I at least gave it a chance for me and the family, on the long shot it was really a single mistake.


----------



## Satya

She doesn't "want" you.

You're all that's left.

So she'd rather have you than nothing.

Never accept being someone's plan B.


----------



## MattMatt

Rubix Cubed said:


> Pretty sure he said OM was a younger, single guy.


He might have lied to her about being single.


----------



## Sparta

See what’s going to happen here if you have any respect for yourself., you’ll know and then you move into the phase of complete discussed hatred towards her. Usually guys just can’t handle it and I’m one of them that can’t handle the lack of trust after being betrayed and will not be treated like a doormat and definitely not second to nobody. Trust is a huge component in any relationship once that severed for me there’s no coming back. I have tried to reconcile doesn’t work for me doesn’t. If you got it in you to reconcile and it works out God bless. From what I’ve seen from all the years of being on these sites most people that have respect for themselves just can’t do it. Many have tried.


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## Rob_1

As a man that have respect for himself, I can't understant men that take their cheating wife/woman back. These men to me are weak, sometimes pathetic individuals that have put their wifes in a pedestal, an can't concive themselves living without her.

The more likely explanation is that these men throughout time they lost their mojo, and became content beta men. When the shvt hits the fan in their face, these men all they can do is to go into damage control, traying to get back and control their women, rationalizing in such a beta way the reasons why of their waywards actions. Normally the first thing these men do is to blame the affair partner: he's a POS, how could this man persue a married woman? This is a sign of a weak man trying to somehow minimize their woman betrayal in order to justify their own weakness.

Regardles of children in the relationship, myself if I were to ever find out that my woman cheated or is cheating on me, my immediate reaction would be: it does not matter the WHEN, WHO, WHY, WHERE, the relationship is over at that very moment. I could never ever be intimate again with a woman that being my woman let another guy fuvk her. No way.

Now the OP can do as he wants that's his bussiness. I wish him well and good luck, he'll need it sooner or later. Normally, women that fall out of love with their partner and "in love" with another man, are not a good candidate to really ever love their betrayed partner in the same way that they originlly did. More often than not, they get back with their partner out of fear, confort, to keep the family together, etc., but they will never love their partner the same again. Deep down in their head they know that they lost respect for their man, when he reacted like a wimp, beta man traying to get them back, rather than acting strong rejecting them immediately. It may not make sense, but that's how we human are wired, we are attracted to the the strong.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thanks again for the messages.
> 
> To make things clear, she never blamed him for this. She has taken all of the blame on herself. The comment about him on the phone was more along the lines of understanding that he is not a good guy since he would knowingly do that with a married woman.
> 
> While I understand the 6 month thing, I can't do that. Just not me. If I split I'm gone. I understand the highly likely chance that she is serial..but honestly my gut says no. And my gut was 100% right each time we have had issues before.
> 
> I like what she gives me and my family when we are good. I'd rather move forward and try to have a possible good future with her than attempt to dig up the past and ruin my good memories. I don't want to know if the past 8 years were a scam because honestly I was perfectly happy. I am at peace with what she gave me. If she was getting more on the side...well she has had one hell of a life then.
> 
> Her family knows, and my close family knows. But I have seen on her phone where she told her co-worker friend that she is doing this for her kids and to work on her family. No mention of wanting to be with me anywhere. But that's what I expect honestly. She was unhappy with me before, that doesn't change overnight because she got caught. She may realize what she was throwing away though, in everything. And with time whatever made her love me before may come back. And if it doesn't I am satisfied that I at least gave it a chance for me and the family, on the long shot it was really a single mistake.


So if I understand what you said above:



You want to ignore the possibility that she has been cheating on you in the past - what the brain doesn't know the heart can't feel I guess. Otherwise known as "head in the sand" or "rug sweeping".


You accept that she doesn't love you and is coming back for the kids (AND HERSELF) and that is OK with you! You will still take her back.


Re her blaming him, what you have said is that "she doesn't blame him" but just "blames him for being a bad guy" which is a contradiction.


You are doing this so that you can say that at least I tried.




You my friend are lost! I really wish you the best of luck but my advice is watch your back and sleep with one eye open. She is not and never has been a good person!


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## Lostinthought61

I know there has been other people on here who have done that, get divorce but either stay together and just date each other......not sure how those worked out but a couple I knew this happen too and they stayed together for several years after but over time he told me he always saw her as damaged goods. 
But this way you either stay together because there is something there or not, and you both part...frankly I think she is suffering from guilt, shame, and lose of feeling for this guy....and that will take time as well.

Please get tested...


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## SunCMars

No,

She has to go.

Latest revelations have cut any and all lifelines.

A bridge too far, a wound so far reaching in..

Exposing your scorched soul, her nightshade, her dank soil.

SunCMars-


----------



## snerg

Rcoolb2002 said:


> So finally she started talking. Came the dreaded .. *im not sure we are IN LOVE anymore*. The spark is gone. I'm not sure I want all of this, house, being a wife, etc etc. That was extremely rough and ive been basically in a pit since then.
> 
> After that she said she needed time, she needs to find herself, she needs to be able to go out with her new friends she has made at work etc.



EDIT << for what ever reason, my browser was still showing this thread on the first page.
Any advice is late to the party (I see you've made some decisions)
With that being said, I still believe what I am offering will help you in the long run>>

She has told you she's done with the marriage.

*BELIEVE HER!*

This is the one part where she isn't lying to you.

*BELIEVE HER!*

I know you don't want to believe this, but she is already gone and is moving on to another.

Don't waste time with evidence gather, a GPS, a PI, a recorder.
What will you prove? Not only that she is done with you, the marriage, the married lifestyle, but she is and has been cheating?


Why stay?
Why allow her to disrespect you?
Why allow yourself to be treated like this?
Why listen to another lie?

1) First and foremost, your spouse is a person of low character (I would prefer to say pig, but that might be too "mean")
2) Second - The affair is not nor will it ever be your fault
3) Lawyer. Today. Know your rights. Start the Divorce. Start to get primary rights to your kids
4) Doctor - get STD/STI/HIV tests started. You life depends on it!
5) Counselor for you. One that has experience with infidelity. You're going to need to talk with someone about this
6) Eat.
7) Sleep (at least 8 hours a night if possible)
8) Drink water (avoid alcohol at this point, it won't help)
9) Get to gym and start working out - it helps the body, the mind, and the soul
10) Start to separate funds
11) 180 like your life depended on it.
12) DNA your kids. Not so much to see if they are yours (hopefully they are), but to show her that you can't trust anything about her
13) Expose. Lies thrive in the dark. 
14) Don't know who originally posted it, but they are a genius:

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end, let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse, and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with, wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## Thor

Rcool, you;re in a state of confustion right now. That's normal. No decision or course of action is necessarily permanent. As someone offered, look at a window of time which is by definition undecided on whether R or D. Were there no kids involved etc, my advice would be instant D for your situation. But, you want to consider your kids and you recognize that in the past you had good times with your W. As always, there are risks in the unknown, so whether you R or D there are no guarantees of anything.

First thing, though, is don't have sex with your W. There are a bunch of reasons. One is legal. In some places infidelity can be a factor in court for divorce and custody. But if you have sex with her after finding out of her cheating, the court sees that as forgiveness on your part, and so infidelity is no longer considered by the court. You need to know if this applies to you. Secondly, having sex with your W signals to her that you want her and that you are weak. She learns she can control you with sex. Even though you'll e strongly tempted to have sex with her, don't.

Before you can R, you have to fully know what you are forgiving her of. Your situation is one of the very few where I endorse the polygraph. R requires she fully hit rock bottom and then capitulate. Like the alcoholic. If she hasn't truly had that epiphany, she will be resisting being fully honest with you in order to protect herself. Trickle truth is what happens. She will try to control the situation by managing what you know. She won't let you make a fully informed decision of your own free will. This is the same underlying rule set in her brain which was at play during her affairs. What she wanted was ok to get even if she knew you would not stay with her, which means she has to control what you know in order to control you.

THe poly will tell you if she has capitulated. Once she reaches capitulatoin then he work of working together to overcome the damage to you and the relationship of her betrayals can begin. Then after that you can work on building a new relationship. Your old relationship will never come back btw.


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## Rcoolb2002

You guys were right. Multiple times. Happened before she brought him over on thanksgiving and she got me a ski trip and had him over at my house when I was gone with the kids there.


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## Rcoolb2002

I need help. I need to find my respect. I need to know what to do for my kids.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

I assume her having a man in your marital bed is the latest revelation. Pack her a suitcase and tell her to leave. Throw the bed out in front of her. Continue with divorce. Don't let her back in your life. Sorry this happened you. She has really given you a Xmas f you. Return the favor.


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## Rcoolb2002

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I assume her having a man in your marital bed is the latest revelation. Pack her a suitcase and tell her to leave. Throw the bed out in front of her. Continue with divorce. Don't let her back in your life. Sorry this happened you. She has really given you a Xmas f you. Return the favor.


My kids dont deserve that. To remember christmas as when mommy and daddy broke up.


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## Edmund

Rcoolb2002 said:


> You guys were right. Multiple times. Happened before she brought him over on thanksgiving and she got me a ski trip and had him over at my house when I was gone with the kids there.


OMG. Just when you think it can't get any worse.


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## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thanks again for the messages.
> 
> To make things clear, she never blamed him for this. She has taken all of the blame on herself. The comment about him on the phone was more along the lines of understanding that he is not a good guy since he would knowingly do that with a married woman.
> 
> While I understand the 6 month thing, I can't do that. Just not me. If I split I'm gone. I understand the highly likely chance that she is serial..but honestly my gut says no. And my gut was 100% right each time we have had issues before.
> 
> *I like what she gives me and my family when we are good.* I'd rather move forward and try to have a possible good future with her than attempt to dig up the past and ruin my good memories. I don't want to know if the past 8 years were a scam because honestly I was perfectly happy. I am at peace with what she gave me. If she was getting more on the side...well she has had one hell of a life then.
> 
> Her family knows, and my close family knows. * But I have seen on her phone where she told her co-worker friend that she is doing this for her kids and to work on her family. No mention of wanting to be with me anywhere. * But that's what I expect honestly. She was unhappy with me before, that doesn't change overnight because she got caught. She may realize what she was throwing away though, in everything. And with time whatever made her love me before may come back. And if it doesn't I am satisfied that I at least gave it a chance for me and the family, on the long shot it was really a single mistake.


So what happens when she gets unhappy again? Repeat!!!

You are setting yourself up to go through this again.

When you R you must eat the **** sandwich you were served. Make no mistake about that.

When she had an affair it was for her. When she brought him into your home and screwed him in your bed it was a big FU. This was done* to you* purposely. To get one over on you. So to speak.

She consciously planned (got you and the kids out of the way) and executed it.

That's a part of who she is. Don't dispell what she's capable of.

Jumping into R right now is the worst thing you can do. Your actions tell her. "You are worth more than me and no matter what you do to me I'll roll over and take it".


Sorry man but this wasn't just an affair. It was a big FU!!!!!!!


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## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> My kids dont deserve that. To remember christmas as when mommy and daddy broke up.


They deserve a father. If they grow up and are faced with this situation would you advise them to suck it up and take it like you are? 

You'd better back off the R and put some thought into what you're setting yourself up for.


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## Marc878

MattMatt said:


> He might have lied to her about being single.


Or she lied to cover and protect her other man. This happens all the time.

Good chance he is married. All cheaters lie a lot.


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## Rcoolb2002

Marc878 said:


> They deserve a father. If they grow up and are faced with this situation would you advise them to suck it up and take it like you are?
> 
> You'd better back off the R and put some thought into what you're setting yourself up for.


Thank you. You are correct in that. But giving them these memories every christmas is avoidable. I can end it in a week or a month with a more clear head. My kids do not need a huge show that mommy cheated etc etc. But they should know that we wont stay together if either of us is unhappy. I 100% agree that I do not want them to think they must stay in an unhappy relationship because of kids or whatever.


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## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> You guys were right. Multiple times. *Happened before she brought him over on thanksgiving *and she got me a ski trip and had him over at my house when I was gone with the kids there.


She brought him into your home to help hide the affair. This is a whole new level of deception. Zero respect for you or your family. Again it was in your face. Even around your children!!! What mother or woman stoops to this level of deception?

Better wake up to what you have here.


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## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Thank you. You are correct in that. But giving them these memories every christmas is avoidable. I can end it in a week or a month with a more clear head. My kids do not need a huge show that mommy cheated etc etc. But they should know that we wont stay together if either of us is unhappy. I 100% agree that I do not want them to think they must stay in an unhappy relationship because of kids or whatever.


I get you I really do. You are correct. I wouldn't do this at Christmas either.

However, anyone deserves better than what you've been faced with. We teach people how they can treat us.

You need to think long term. Is this how you want to live your life? 

Divorce is hard but you have the chance to change your future. Living the life of a doormat long term will be even harder. Think about what you're doing.

As a father your kids will learn from you. What do you want to teach them? How to you want them to grow up?

Better take the time and figure this out. Your heart will betray you at this time. Use your head.

You're way to young to settle for less than what you want out of life and how you want your kids and other to think and know of you.

This isn't a failure on your part but how you want to live the rest of your life and future.

Anyone deserves better than what you've been dealt.


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## Marc878

I'd have her get rid of the bed immediately!!!! It's an action that you should take.

Your actions speak a lot louder than mere words which are meaningless at this time.

Talk will not get you much.

I'd put on a hard 180. Now.

It'll help clear your head and give you time to think which you haven't done yet.

Your plight will become much clearer if you can do it. You need it!!!!!!


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## Marc878

It's obvious her friends knew of the affair and maybe even enabled it. They should be cut out of your life permanently.

Don't project your feelings of love onto her. They are not reciprocated.

Good luck to you and very sorry you're here and going through this.


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## Rcoolb2002

Her manipulation is strong and she kmows what to say to make me think that she is willing to give me everything for the rest of her life. And now she has moved on to telling a mutual friend and shoulder of mine (that went through this and did R at least for now) that she is thinking of killing herself. And she is telling me that she realizes she cannot live without me. 

Could just be a manipulation point but I feel it is a big concern. The only factor I havent mentioned is that my wife has an uncurrable women's disease that causes chronic pain. And she is fighting that demon as well, and her last experimental trial failed. I know that she is looking for any way to be happy with the prospect of a life of crippling pain. And she wasn't happy with me and she found a quick jolt of excitement with someone else that she hasnt had in a long time. Not an excuse, just reality. She made her bed and she will lie in it. I am not a doormat. I was naive and that is over.


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## ReturntoZero

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Her manipulation is strong and she kmows what to say to make me think that she is willing to give me everything for the rest of her life. And now she has moved on to telling a mutual friend and shoulder of mine (that went through this and did R at least for now) that she is thinking of killing herself. And she is telling me that she realizes she cannot live without me.
> 
> Could just be a manipulation point but I feel it is a big concern. The only factor I havent mentioned is that my wife has an uncurrable women's disease that causes chronic pain. And she is fighting that demon as well, and her last experimental trial failed. I know that she is looking for any way to be happy with the prospect of a life of crippling pain. And she wasn't happy with me and she found a quick jolt of excitement with someone else that she hasnt had in a long time. Not an excuse, just reality. She made her bed and she will lie in it. I am not a doormat. I was naive and that is over.


I find it quite troubling that she's "doing it for the kids..." or whatever. No mention of you when she didn't think you were looking.

Now the suicide card.

Non-starter.

Tell her you'll help her find a good counselor.

Not quite sure how it computes that someone in all that pain was out drinking to 4am and straggling in 3 hours "after close".... (after "O")

Sympathy is not helpful to you here.

Cool, clear-eyed, rational (while your heart is bleeding, I know)

Put it all in a ledger. What "can" you deal with - and why should you deal with it?

Suddenly, she doesn't sound like much of a catch.


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## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Her manipulation is strong and she kmows what to say to make me think that she is willing to give me everything for the rest of her life. And now she has moved on to telling a mutual friend and shoulder of mine (that went through this and did R at least for now) that she is thinking of killing herself. *And she is telling me that she realizes she cannot live without me. *
> 
> Total BS. Her actions tell you this. She's just regretting getting caught. Nothing more.
> 
> Could just be a manipulation point but I feel it is a big concern. The only factor I havent mentioned is that my wife has an uncurrable women's disease that causes chronic pain. And she is fighting that demon as well, and her last experimental trial failed. I know that she is looking for any way to be happy with the prospect of a life of crippling pain. And she wasn't happy with me and she found a quick jolt of excitement with someone else that she hasnt had in a long time. Not an excuse, just reality. She made her bed and she will lie in it. I am not a doormat. I was naive and that is over.


If she plays the suicide card call 911 and report her. This will also play a roll in custody.

She's been playing and manipulating you for awhile. She's a consummate liar and is capable of anything as you've seen.

There are zero excuses for her worse than deplorable behavior. 

Learn from this and make sure you are never that gullible and naive again.


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## Rcoolb2002

I realize that I am looking for reasons just justify why my heart wants to stay. My head understands everything you guys are saying but my heart wants to dream that we have a chance. The image of my dream girl has not yet fully evaporated. Maybe if I had caught her in the act or saw them doing things. I still have this idea that she was caught up in the excitement and newness and wanted out the hole that she was in without fully comprehending what she was doing. 

I bet every husband who truly loves his wife goes through this struggle and denial. I'm an idiot and a fool. And like a siren she has me snared.


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## Rcoolb2002

I am obviously setting myself up for this by staying in her presence and allowing her allure and our past to cloud the cold stark darkness of the heinous acts she could commit. But when she looks at me and says she will chase me forever until the cops drag her away and all the other things she says that sound right and sound like true remorse and sound like she truly fears to not have me in her life...it is working.

I want hysterical bonding. I want to jump her. I want to scream I want to cry, I want to escape and I cannot. I want her forever and I want her to go away.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Rcoolb2002 said:


> Her manipulation is strong and she kmows what to say to make me think that she is willing to give me everything for the rest of her life. And now she has moved on to telling a mutual friend and shoulder of mine (that went through this and did R at least for now) that she is thinking of killing herself. And she is telling me that she realizes she cannot live without me.
> 
> Could just be a manipulation point but I feel it is a big concern. The only factor I havent mentioned is that my wife has an uncurrable women's disease that causes chronic pain. And she is fighting that demon as well, and her last experimental trial failed. I know that she is looking for any way to be happy with the prospect of a life of crippling pain. And she wasn't happy with me and she found a quick jolt of excitement with someone else that she hasnt had in a long time. Not an excuse, just reality. She made her bed and she will lie in it. I am not a doormat. I was naive and that is over.


Do not succumb to emotional blackmail. Period. She continues to voice that she is going to hurt herself report her.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Rcoolb2002 said:


> I am obviously setting myself up for this by staying in her presence and allowing her allure and our past to cloud the cold stark darkness of the heinous acts she could commit. But when she looks at me and says she will chase me forever until the cops drag her away and all the other things she says that sound right and sound like true remorse and sound like she truly fears to not have me in her life...it is working.
> 
> I want hysterical bonding. I want to jump her. I want to scream I want to cry, I want to escape and I cannot. I want her forever and I want her to go away.


Brother. Don't. Not now. You are in shock. She is manipulating you, just like she did when she got you a vaca so she could bring another man in. 

Make no mistake that she was on her way to replacing you with him. You interrupted her plans. Now you are plan B. All her hysteria is pure manipulation. 

Don't fall for it.


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## Thor

She is a real piece of work! Manipulative, dishonest, disloyal. Buying you a vacay to take the kids away so she could screw her new love in your bed, your house! Probably on your couch, in your shower, and on your kitchen table, too.

I agree with the others that this was a big FU, poking a stick in your eye. Premeditated. She got a thrill out of being naked and doing nasties with the OM on your territory.

She has shown you who she really is. More than once!

Her behavior now is CYA and to save her own skin. I think she is a very skilled manipulator who has always had you snowed. I bet much of what your remember wasn't experienced by her the way you are thinking it was.

What do you do for your kids? This is the oxygen mask situaton, where you take care of yourself first. If you don't do what is right for yourself here, you won't be able to take care of your kids into the future. A solid marriage is the pillar of the family. If you stay in a bad marriage, your kids will learn to be walked over, plus they will experience all manner of stress and unhappiness in the home. 

THey are far better off with at least one of their parents having a stable happy home rather than parents staying married but unhappy with all kinds of dysfunction.


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## Marc878

Rcoolb2002 said:


> I am obviously setting myself up for this by staying in her presence and allowing her allure and our past to cloud the cold stark darkness of the heinous acts she could commit. But when she looks at me and says she will chase me forever until the cops drag her away and all the other things she says that sound right and sound like true remorse and sound like she truly fears to not have me in her life...it is working.
> 
> I want hysterical bonding. I want to jump her. I want to scream I want to cry, I want to escape and I cannot. I want her forever and I want her to go away.


They are nothing but words. Save yourself or you'll save nothing.

It is your life but you are on the edge of becoming a doormat or man. Only you can choose.


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## eric1

You need to confirm her boyfriend is single

You need to recover her deleted texts


----------



## Rob_1

OP give it up already. You know that you are not man enough to be able to act like a real man and immediately dump the cheating skank. After all these trials and tribulations you'll just take her back, and cry happily ever after that you got her back (until the next time). So why continue punishing yourself with all this anguish, just accept it and carry on.


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## Lostinthought61

Rcool, one question....yes she is full of remorse and she is there with you and children, tomorrow they will open your gifts to each other but imagine you did not discover this...would she still be thinking about you and the kids tomorrow morining or thinking of him? It's always always easy to sound remorseful and wishing you could do it over again once you get caught...but lets face she would continue that relationship for longer...she ruined you thanksgiving and your Christmas don't let her ruin New Years and a new year...sickness or not you do not deserve to spend it with a self centered cheater. 

And by the way....tomorrow you might want to mention to her that her gift of deceit, lies and transgression is one gift you wish you could return, but now your stuck with it for the rest of your life.


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## Satya

I think it would suck to have to inject unhappy memories into your kids' holiday as well, however, there comes a point when all children have to grow up a little too soon and we can't portray the candy floss world to them any longer.

IF you're going to wait to tell them anything (in age appropriate ways) then I suggest you make damn sure she is on the same page with you - that you will tell the kids TOGETHER, how you will tell them (the words to use), and when. Because otherwise she'll tell them when she darn well chooses and if THAT behavior isn't enough finally for you to grow a spine with her (siren? Snare? Can we say "pedestal?") theni forsee you will forever be kicking yourself for not drawing more firm boundaries.


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## Malaise

Thor said:


> She is a real piece of work! Manipulative, dishonest, disloyal. *Buying you a vacay to take the kids away so she could screw her new love in your bed, your house! Probably on your couch, in your shower, and on your kitchen table, too.
> 
> *I agree with the others that this was a big FU, poking a stick in your eye. Premeditated. She got a thrill out of being naked and doing nasties with the OM on your territory.


Unless you get off on thinking of her doing this. Do you?

She did this until you caught on. Or she'd still be doing it. You know that, right?

She cares for one person only and, brother, it ain't you.


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## BadGrammar

The best thing you can do for yourself is to separate from her ASAP. My guess is that presently she fears what may happen if she loses, primarily your financial, support. She must learn to live with the reality of that loss. Until she does, she is only aware of the looming presence of a hypothetical situation. She will use all of her guile to manipulate you in order to avoid the consequences of her A. If you plan carefully and unemotionally, you should be able to arrange the details of co-parenting while keeping contact with her to a minimum. As it stands, you seem to be an emotional mess, Take heart. If she is truly worth keeping in your life, then she must be taken to the low that she so thoughtlessly, and disrespectfully brought you to. At that point she may or may not take up the mantle of a mature and responsible adult. She is in need of being tested, and you are in need of being healed. At this point, it is not contingent upon you to change anything about yourself, with the exception of gaining and building your self-respect. Do not speak of the things you could have done to be a better husband. She will use this against you as justification for her past deplorable behavior, and to set limits on her future accountability. If she proves herself worthy and you reconcile, you may implement those steps in the future... without speaking of them.


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## WilliamM

In 1978 my wife allowed a friend to seduce her. A One Day Stand, no love involved. I was pissed but not too angry. We are children of the sixties. It bothered me that she stepped out when I hadn’t, but then when I asked her why she was evasive. That angered me. The more I questioned her the more lies I uncovered. Not about the affair but about her feelings towards me.

After a week I had trouble keeping my temper at all. I just don’t understand guys who can be so content. I don’t recommend anyone get as angry as I did, but you need to be angry.

Myself, well, I had to keep reminding myself that if I killed her I would probably regret it. But I tortured her emotionally for two years. I did finally lower myself to physical abuse. Don’t go there. It’s hard to believe we survived it all. So my advice is probably not good.

But... get angry.


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## drifting on

Rcool

Well that didn’t take to long for the truth to come out, did it? What are you feeling now? Throughout your entire thread I don’t see you angry, starting the nuclear war that you should be doing. However, I can understand the not wanting to ruin Christmas for your kids. @Satya is correct that you both tell the kids (age appropriate) and do not protect your wife. You can tell the kids she cheated on you and them, as she has by blowing up their world as well as everyone else’s. That’s for her to deal with, not you, but after telling the kids I would have therapy set up for them. My advice is to set up therapy, tell your wife you will both be telling the kids and when. I would wait no longer then two weeks. 

As for waiting six months, I would, but file for divorce now and have her served at work. If you truly are divorcing her then get her to sign off quickly in your favor, tell her that’s just to protect any idea of reconciling. She must agree to your terms or there will be no offer for reconciliation. Sending you on a trip, wow, what a great way to say I love you!! Suicidal, tell her to go get help, tell her it’s not your problem then call her parents and let them know. They can show her love and get her help. My wife became very depressed during reconciliation, I even had a thread on it. The difference in my wife and yours is remorse, my wife is remorseful, yours is still telling you what you did wrong. 

What I have noticed in your thread is the codependency, and you need to stop that. Search for it and see just how codependent you really are. Your wife sent you and the kids on vacation so spend time with the one she loves, remind her of that every chance you get!!! As for anger, it will come even if you are codependent, and it hits hard. I think you need that, you need to know you are in a war. File, and don’t ever look back.


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## Malaise

drifting on said:


> Rcool
> 
> 
> What I have noticed in your thread is the codependency, and you need to stop that. Search for it and see just how codependent you really are. *Your wife sent you and the kids on vacation so spend time with the one she loves, remind her of that every chance you get!!!* As for anger, it will come even if you are codependent, and it hits hard. I think you need that, you need to know you are in a war. File, and don’t ever look back.


If that doesn't get you pissed off to the max, what would?


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## drifting on

Malaise said:


> If that doesn't get you pissed off to the max, what would?




I don’t know of much that wouldn’t have me throwing all I could get my hands on. Hell, if I were OP in his exact position now, I can’t say I wouldn’t become physically abusive to her, and from someone who despises physical abuse that’s saying a lot.


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