# Sigh. And now it begins



## toolforgrowth

In 2012 my XW had a PA. I divorced her and didn't look back. In early 2013 she moved in with a different guy (not her XAP) and they've been together ever since. My story is around here somewhere. 

Anyway, things have been fine. We've been working well together for the sake of our daughter (6 years old) with no disagreements. I stay out of her life, and for the most part she stays out of mine.

But lately, my XW has been doing some really weird things. Last year I got into the new Doctor Who, and I've been watching it religiously ever since. D knows and watches it with me sometimes. The last time XW came to my house to drop off D was on a Saturday in September or October, her and her BF had plans during her visitation weekend and asked me if I would watch D. I said of course. When she dropped her off, she was wearing a Doctor Who T-shirt, and she couldn't look me in the eye. When she spoke to me, she was looking at anything else but me. I thought that was weird on both counts, as she had never watched Doctor Who when we were together and was suddenly wearing a shirt only after I told my D I watched it now, but I just shrugged it off and figured it was a coincidence. 

She's also been sending me a lot more texts. They're all related to our daughter, but they've been happening much more frequently. It's like she's trying to find reasons related to our daughter to text me. But I didn't think much of it and kept on living, I figured she's just trying to be a bit more involved in co-parenting than she was before.

We've been getting a lot of snow here in Oregon the past couple of days. She texted me on Thursday asking if I was going to work on Friday, she said she wasn't, and that I could drop off D at her place or she could pick her up from mine and that she was "open to whatever". The thing is we RARELY do that; D's day care is close to both of us and we have always used it as neutral ground. I prefer it that way as I enjoy my privacy and don't care for my XW coming around my house, and I prefer to stay away from her place to respect her privacy. She did drop D off at my place that one Saturday, but since it was a Saturday there was no other choice and I'll put up with a few minutes with the X in order to get more time with my D. But on a day when day care is open, I prefer to stick to the established norm of making the exchange on neutral ground at day care. I told the XW that I was going to work on Friday and that I'll drop D off at day care like normal, that way she can get D anytime throughout the day that is most convenient for her. She said "Ok no problem...just wanted to check in".

Friday morning I'm going through D's backpack, as she had a lot of clothes and toys that stay with me inside and I wanted to make sure I got everything. As I'm going through it, I see a little red book like object. Curious, I open it and see it's a book that has inserts inside for pictures. And all the pictures are of my and my XW's wedding.

My D never mentioned this to me the entire week. Plus she wasn't even born then, so she has no memory of the wedding, and the picture book looked brand new. So I don't think it's hers, and I don't think she even knew it was there. And, red is the XW's favorite color. When i saw it, all her odd past behavior finally made sense.

I was really hoping to have avoided this. I divorced the hell out of her and didn't look back. Not even once. I showed her under no uncertain terms that I was done. I am polite and cordial with her, we don't argue, and I'm very accommodating concerning our D, but I'm just trying to be a responsible co parent. I have given no indication that I'm interested in R. And this begins. I just put the picture book back into D's bag and didn't mention it to her. Haven't mentioned it to the XW either. I'm going to pretend I didn't even see it.

I'm wondering how much more of this I'm going to have to put up with in the days ahead.


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## brokenbythis

AAHHHHH the grass is not greener 

They cheat, lie, betray and can't wait to get the hell out of your marriage. They give excuses like "I want to feel loved", "I met my soulmate", "he/she cares about me", "you are boring" or whatever their crazed head is telling them.

Fast forward a year or so and they realize what they had was actually pretty good.

This is going to test you big time. Take your time and think everything through. I'm going through the same thing. Ex wants to come back. Just when you think you've made your plans and are moving ahead full steam they pull this crap.


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## harrybrown

You did well by getting her out of your life.(as much as possilble)

She would just bring more misery to you. She would cheat again.

Keep the neutral drop off and do the 180 again. Only respond when you have to, because she will bring nothing but heartache.

Have your D tell her about your new girlfriend. Maybe that would help cool things down. 

Either that or have her talk to the Doctor Who.


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## toolforgrowth

I've been single since last summer. Self-imposed. I seem to attract crazy women.  So I told myself a good solid 6 months at minimum with no relationship would be really good for me, and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made. Although I did go on a blind date last Wednesday.

My XW refused individual counseling, and that told me everything I needed to know. There is no chance for me to even talk to her about anything between us until she has a few months of IC at minimum under her belt, because without it I definitely believe she will cheat again. If she ever asks me, I will flat out tell her that. If she continues to choose not to go to IC, no skin off my back. Life is really good without her in it.

I don't talk to her unless I have to. I never make idle conversation. If it's something about our daughter I believe she needs to know, then I'll tell her. Other than that, I'm as quiet as a mouse.


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## happy as a clam

Wow... she is a piece of work.

Assuming she is still with the other guy (the new non-AP), now she is ready to cheat on HIM with YOU!! Unbelievable! And you, knowing how awful it is to be the BS, I'm sure you would never go along with this as long as she is still involved with him. To do that to someone else, knowing what you went through, would be unthinkable in your situation.

You sound like a nice guy. Keep on doing what you're doing, and just ignore her advances. Cheaters don't stop cheating... she has proven she is willing to cheat again! Imagine how the new guy will feel the next time she does it.


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## toolforgrowth

happy as a clam said:


> Wow... she is a piece of work.
> 
> Assuming she is still with the other guy (the new non-AP), now she is ready to cheat on HIM with YOU!! Unbelievable! And you, knowing how awful it is to be the BS, I'm sure you would never go along with this as long as she is still involved with him. To do that to someone else, knowing what you went through, would be unthinkable in your situation.
> 
> You sound like a nice guy. Keep on doing what you're doing, and just ignore her advances. Cheaters don't stop cheating... she has proven she is willing to cheat again! Imagine how the new guy will feel the next time she does it.


EXACTLY.

While she's still living with this guy, there is no way in hell. She hasn't changed and there is no chance until she proves that he has. What's really frustrating is that she's putting our cooperative co-parenting in danger with these shenanigans if she full-blown propositions me and I'm forced to shoot her down.


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## indiecat

If she does tell her that you'll always care about her because you share a daighter, but the trust is gone and you aren't interested in going backwards down that road again.


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## Ceegee

toolforgrowth said:


> I've been single since last summer. Self-imposed. I seem to attract crazy women.



What other kind is there?

Just kidding ladies. 

You sound like you've left a door open for R if certain conditions are met. 

Until those conditions are met you need to protect yourself with strong boundaries. 

You've done well so far and sound like you know this. It also sounds like you are vulnerable when she shirks your boundaries. Hard to control that so you have to defend yourself by remembering who she is and what she's done. 

Continue doing what your doing by distancing yourself and only engaging when D is involved.


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## Cooper

Once you become truly detatched from your ex you won't even notice things like you are focusing on now. Who the hell cares what she's up to? She may or may not want you back, she may or may not be just seeing if you would be available for her if things don't work out with sperm stick #2, she may or may not just be looking for an ego stroke and wants to see if she can make you jump. Who cares? You certainly shouldn't.

Don't let her edge her way back into your life, communicate when you have to but just ignore everything else. If she is really trying to play on your emotions just take a look at her character and let that slap some sense into you, she cheated on you and now she's looking to cheat on her current man. Has she changed for the better? Has she changed at all?


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## LongWalk

This seems to be a difference between men and women WS. Women like to build an emotional setting for R which implies remorse but stops short of admitting to the ugliness of betrayal. Men are more direct in proposing R. But this is just a mirror of courtship. Men are supposed to chase and women signal encouragement.

From the male point of view your wife should dump new OM, work on herself and express remorse. Her point of view is that a moment of passion, leading to her to then cast off OM is the safe development plan for her DNA. Ironically the cheater wants the BS to be the leader in R.

I would not consider R without having dated other women. But you seem to have figured out what she is up to. Take her renewed interest in you as a compliment
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk

lf your not interested and she's still with the om , l don't really see any dramas. like they're pretty subtle little things, not like she's sleeping on your door step yet or stalking you or something.
l'd be having a bit of a chuckle to myself and just be on my merry way tbh.

My thinking , just enjoy the karma and don't even bother letting it ruffle your feathers. You guys are working really well and peacefully for your D , you don't wanna mess with that just for such little things it's too important.

Sounds like the grass not so greener after all thing for sure but really , no biggie yet. Keep everything nice for your d and just roll on with your life with a grins my vote.


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## toolforgrowth

I've dated a couple women post split with the XW, and I enjoyed it. Both women were very intelligent and highly attractive, which was a big ego boost to be sure.  But they both had their issues which were dealbreakers to me, and I couldn't continue seeing either one. One of them wants to "hang out" again (read "get nekkid") which MIGHT be fun, but I don't think I want to get involved in her weird sitch again.

LW, you're exactly right. it's like she's trying to get me to initiate the R process, and I have no interest in that. I'm not exactly itching for R anyway, I really enjoy my single life and life away from her. But I suppose if she took the necessary steps all on her own (being single, counseling, fixing herself) and then approached me, I would be extremely guarded but I'd probably at least hear what she had to say and decide where to go from there. But she isn't even within 1000 light years of that yet, and as such I view these things as nothing more than breadcrumbs to be ignored.

But I'm also very wary as to what she may do down the road. She pulled some really stupid **** post divorce, and I know what she's capable of when she feels scorned (oh, the irony!).


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## whitehawk

l'm really interested in LW's insight relating to this and even my own situation too. 
My ex is doing some funny little things too like touches , really happy chatty warm welcomes, showing me new clothes and stuff when l go to get d , coffees. Sometimes l think it's a bit like LW is describing with her , as if they might be R signals but she feels l should do the initiating from there , l'm not sure. Yesterday she was showing me some new shorts , it might've been nothing but l came so close to slipping my hand up those , they were short and really nice.

But anyway , l don't get why you'd have to shoot her down or ruffle any feathers at all there's nothing near big enough yet to even bother doing anything. Even if they did get more though you could just be subtle gentle about it .

With mine l don't even know if any of the things are anything. She's not a vindictive or game player person but maybe it is even slightly sussing if l'm still an option , l don't know.


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## Healer

What concerns me more than your exWW's selfish, cake eating behaviour is that you are open to R with this woman on ANY level.
No matter if she never goes to IC or does so 7 days a week, if you take her back, you are a fool and she will burn you to the ground all over again. But I think you know this.

Your marriage is over, and so is any romantic involvement with her. That's a blessing. Don't **** it up.


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## toolforgrowth

I believe there is a 0.05% chance that my XW can change and be a better person. It's so small as to be statistically irrelevant. I personally feel that I am much more likely to find happiness with someone new.

If I were as eager to R as that, I'd be on the phone with her right now. But I'm not. That's because I do know that right now she's an extremely bad risk and there is no way in hell I'd put myself (our our daughter) back in that situation again. I'd rather be single with no complications in my life. 

But on the flip side, people can change if they truly want to. I believe every human being has this capacity. It's not a question of ability, it's a question of want and will. But the odds of my XW having the want and will to follow through are essentially zero, so I have absolutely no faith. But if in that 0.05% chance she proves me wrong, I would hear what she has to say and then make a decision based on whether or not I believe her, think she's actually changed, and whether or not I can even stand to look at her. Lol The odds are not in her favor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Healer

toolforgrowth said:


> I believe there is a 0.05% chance that my XW can change and be a better person. It's so small as to be statistically irrelevant. I personally feel that I am much more likely to find happiness with someone new.
> 
> If I were as eager to R as that, I'd be on the phone with her right now. But I'm not. That's because I do know that right now she's an extremely bad risk and there is no way in hell I'd put myself (our our daughter) back in that situation again. I'd rather be single with no complications in my life.
> 
> But on the flip side, people can change if they truly want to. I believe every human being has this capacity. It's not a question of ability, it's a question of want and will. But the odds of my XW having the want and will to follow through are essentially zero, so I have absolutely no faith. But if in that 0.05% chance she proves me wrong, I would hear what she has to say and then make a decision based on whether or not I believe her, think she's actually changed, and whether or not I can even stand to look at her. Lol The odds are not in her favor.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's the rub - you can never know if she actually changed or not. She can pretend to - even convince herself of it...but you know she's a very, very capable liar, don't you?

My stbxww really, truly believes she's "living the good life", "making good decisions", "only surrounding herself with really good people", "being a great mother" etc etc. She's not lying to me about it - she believes it to be true. But people like that are fundamentally flawed, broken, whatever you want to call it.

Then there's the flipside you talked about - can you even stand to look at her? Even if my WW really did change completely for the better, and it was proven and measurable, I wouldn't take her back, because I don't want anything to do with someone who would treat me and my kids the way she did.

It's unforgivable for me. Stay strong and focus on your new life. You seem like a good dude. Find a good woman.


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## toolforgrowth

Of course your stbxww is saying that, she has to justify her behavior.  Mine certainly did. After the affair was over and our divorce was a stone's throw away from being finalized, I got the whole "I'm ashamed of what I did, the kids have suffered enough," etc. I said you do seem different, have you been going to counseling? She said no, and that she believes she can get better all on her own. I said I disagreed with her for obvious reasons, but the choice is hers and the divorce will forward. She said "thank you for respecting my wishes". And that was that. I signed the papers and walked. This was about a year and a half ago.

I'm not considering anything with her right now. She won't seek help, and without that there is nothing. I believe that a person can be truly remorseful, and if she is and showed it, it MAY (not WILL) cause me to think about things. But even if I do think about it, it doesn't mean I'll actually try again. I have far too much of a wandering eye right now, and every woman I see is a potential opportunity. I don't think I could get rid of that feeling even if I got back together with her. I'd always be keeping an eye out for something better. She would have to change that in me and make that desire go away. I don't think she's got it in her. 

For now, I'm getting a little chuckle over her actions. The grass isn't greener, she realizes what she had, she realizes what her actions did to her children, and me letting go bothers her. I also think that she's still trying to keep me around as a backup plan, and I'm not playing that game at all. "I'm open to whatever" was an invitation, one that I politely declined. At this point I'm still living my life for me and doing what I want.  But I'm highly curious as to what she'll try next and how far she'll go, and how that may affect our daughter. She's used our daughter as a means to manipulate in the past, and it wouldn't surprise me if she did so again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad

As a healthy man, you don't want to get rid of your eye.


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## toolforgrowth

Bingo. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IronWine29

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."


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## toolforgrowth

Yep. I'm not going to allow myself to be fooled. But I'd be lying if I said there wasn't some entertainment value in all this. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## indiecat

Our feelings matter too. Even if they could 'change' the damage is done. The trust has been broken. 

The stress of wondering why they are late coming home, or wondering who they are emailing or texting. That pain in the gut you get when they are being nice, and in the back of you mind you wonder 'am I just being used because the new person didn't cater to her the way she expected'.


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## soccermom2three

toolforgrowth said:


> Yep. I'm not going to allow myself to be fooled. But I'd be lying if I said there wasn't some entertainment value in all this. Lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I have to admit that I laughed when I read that she actually wore a Dr. Who shirt when she was going to see you. Can she be more obvious?


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## toolforgrowth

The shenanigans continue!!

The red picture book is STILL in D's backpack, who STILL hasn't mentioned it to me once. I got a good laugh this afternoon about it. I picked up D from day care, and her day care provider is a fantastic lady. She said D's backpack was very heavy and that she even has "the kitchen sink in there." She also said that my XW "cleaned it out yesterday". So I get home and take all the toys out of D's backpack that belong here, and lo and behold, what do I see right on top of everything else but under all the toys?

The red picture book.

She bloody well knows it's in there and seems to be trying to get me to see it. You may commence laughter any time. :rofl:

The XW and I briefly texted about getting D into ballet a couple weeks ago. I said I think it's a great idea and that I'm willing to share the costs involved with her. I also told her that I'd like to get D into something musical; I was a trumpet player many years ago, so it's kind of important to me. I also don't want to approach D with something like that before discussing it with her mother. We have joint custody, and I respect that.

She said she is open to that, and then proceeded to tell me that my ex step daughter (XW's daughter from a prior marriage) now plays the flute, and almost chose to play the trumpet, and that seeing me with my trumpet had given her a love for music.

I thanked her for the compliment, said I am glad I was able to be a positive influence, and politely ended the conversation.

On a positive note, I started a new job yesterday. Got a rotation in the IT department of my agency, which something I've always dreamed about but never thought I could actually get. Well, I actually got it! It's a fantastic opportunity and I'm loving every minute of it.

Who said life after divorce had to be painful? So many good things can happen if you really want them to, and it's really amazing what you can accomplish for yourself when you love yourself and put yourself first.


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