# Stonewalling - Acceptable timelines?



## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Hi Everyone,

DH and I are having a big struggle with "stonewalling" in our relationship. Basically, DH will shut down and refuse to talk with me at all out of anger for extended periods of time. In the past, I've typically suffered under the silence in my own voiceless anger, but occasionally have lashed out emotionally in retaliation. Since we started MC, our psychologist has emphasized to DH and I that I have a right to a timeline on the stonewalling. Basically, DH is supposed to give me a timeline as to the next time we can talk about X issue that upsets him too much.

DH recently stonewalled me again, and has demanded nearly 30 days before he's willing to talk again about a difficult issue, and has demanded 4 days until he can even bear to be in the same room with me. This still hurts a lot, and feels like emotional abuse to me. When I read articles about stonewalling, I see that a few hours is usually the suggested timeline for when the stonewaller should have to unwall and engage in the conversation about the difficult issue. 

Should I be accepting DH's incredibly long timelines?

Since people keep asking in other threads:
Right now, DH and I are separated but living together in the same house
I have been in IC for 8+ years, and with the same psychologist for 6+ years; I started to go and continue to go because I want to and find it legitimately helps my emotional stability
DH has been in IC for 4+ years, all with the same psychologist; He started to go of his own volition, and I assume he continues for the same reasons
DH and I mutually agreed to MC with the same psychologist about two months ago


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

Well, I certainly wouldn't recommend arguing with him about it, or calling it emotional abuse (or using triggering words like "demand"). He is engaging with you, right? He's 'playing the game' by telling you how long, he isn't just saying 'Nope, won't discuss it', or '7 billion years' or anything. He has given you a timeline, as instructed. 

I would recommend you read a book called 'How to Improve your Marriage by not talking about it' by Patricia Love and Steven Somebody. Men's needs are different to women's. You might be desperate to 'talk about it', but I can assure you with a fairly strong degree of certainty that he is not. I can't remember if it was that book where I read it, but one description I have heard, which is accurate by my lights, is that when a wife says to her husband 'we need to talk about this', what she is communicating, in his mind, is "_I want_ to talk about this, and I am willing to make myself feel a little bit better at the expense of making you feel a hell of a lot worse. I will tell you how awful you are because it is 'for the good of our relationship', so you should be grateful". 

Instead, what you should do, is say to him "I understand how you feel. You would be doing me a big favour by talking with me about this." Or something along those lines.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Honestly a "time line for stone walling" is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Your psychologist has just legitimatized an avoidance tool. What happens in a month when you broach the subject and he just get's pissed again and extends the silence sentence? 

A legitimate time line would be walking around the block for an hour until emotions simmer down. 

But I'm not a psychologist, I'm just a guy who wouldn't tolerate the passive aggressive silent treatment crap.


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

Cooper said:


> Honestly a "time line for stone walling" is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard off. Your psychologist has just legitimatized an avoidance tool. What happens in a month when you broach the subject and he just get's pissed again and extends the silence sentence?


I guess (and it is a guess) that either partner can put a 'timeline' on how long until they'll be comfortable, then if they're not prepared to talk about it after that, the other has a legitimate grievance. I don't know what the standard 'timeline' is, but I doubt it's measured in hours - probably a few days, I'd reckon.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Oh wow, what a hideous existence. If you are separated under the one roof why not just put an end to this misery and move out?

If my husband told me he needed 4 days to even be in the same room as me then it would be the end. This is no way to live, no person is worth belittling yourself for. Your husband has serious issues.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

vauxhall101 said:


> I guess (and it is a guess) that either partner can put a 'timeline' on how long until they'll be comfortable, then if they're not prepared to talk about it after that, the other has a legitimate grievance. I don't know what the standard 'timeline' is, but I doubt it's measured in hours - probably a few days, I'd reckon.


You reckon wrong. The old sayings like "never let the sun go down on an argument" and "never go to bed angry" exist because thousands of years of marital experience show that dragging these things out for more than a few hours is much more harmful to the marriage. As in this case, where this marriage should and probably will end because of this.


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

Nucking Futs said:


> You reckon wrong. The old sayings like "never let the sun go down on an argument" and "never go to bed angry" exist because thousands of years of marital experience show that dragging these things out for more than a few hours is much more harmful to the marriage. As in this case, where this marriage should and probably will end because of this.


They also say "sleep on it".


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

vauxhall101 said:


> Well, I certainly wouldn't recommend arguing with him about it, *or calling it emotional abuse (or using triggering words like "demand").* He is engaging with you, right? He's 'playing the game' by telling you how long, he isn't just saying 'Nope, won't discuss it', or '7 billion years' or anything. He has given you a timeline, as instructed.
> 
> I would recommend you read a book called 'How to Improve your Marriage by not talking about it' by Patricia Love and Steven Somebody. Men's needs are different to women's. You might be desperate to 'talk about it', but I can assure you with a fairly strong degree of certainty that he is not. I can't remember if it was that book where I read it, but one description I have heard, which is accurate by my lights, is that when a wife says to her husband 'we need to talk about this', what she is communicating, in his mind, is "_I want_ to talk about this, and I am willing to make myself feel a little bit better at the expense of making you feel a hell of a lot worse. I will tell you how awful you are because it is 'for the good of our relationship', so you should be grateful".
> 
> Instead, what you should do, is say to him "I understand how you feel. You would be doing me a big favour by talking with me about this." Or something along those lines.


Stonewalling as a manipulative tactic or passive-aggressive attack is broadly accepted as a form of emotional abuse. In my DH's case, this seems like a passive-aggressive attack, and it's working.



Cooper said:


> Honestly a "time line for stone walling" is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard off. Your psychologist has just legitimatized an avoidance tool. What happens in a month when you broach the subject and he just get's pissed again and extends the silence sentence?
> 
> A legitimate time line would be walking around the block for an hour until emotions simmer down.
> 
> But I'm not a psychologist, I'm just a guy who wouldn't tolerate the passive aggressive silent treatment crap.


Dr. Gottman, the "original" researcher on things like stonewalling, suggests respecting the stonewall as a period of cooling down so that the angry/defensive person can set their negative emotions and heightened arousal aside and continue a difficult conversation. His research suggests people only need about 30 minutes to calm down.



MrsHolland said:


> Oh wow, what a hideous existence. If you are separated under the one roof *why not just put an end to this misery and move out?*
> 
> If my husband told me he needed 4 days to even be in the same room as me then it would be the end. This is no way to live, no person is worth belittling yourself for. Your husband has serious issues.


Financial limitations, lack of social resources. Our area is pretty high cost of living, so paying a $1500 mortgage on our home and also paying $1200-1300 for rent for the other person is totally off the table. Neither of us have a safe family member we can run to for cheap/free rent. If one of us moves out, it's divorce time.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

vauxhall101 said:


> They also say "sleep on it".


They say "sleep on it" to big decisions, not anger or fights.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

MrsHolland said:


> Oh wow, what a hideous existence. If you are separated under the one roof why not just put an end to this misery and move out?
> 
> If my husband told me he needed 4 days to even be in the same room as me then it would be the end. This is no way to live, no person is worth belittling yourself for. Your husband has serious issues.


:iagree:

This sounds absolutely ghastly. If it were me, at the end of the 4 days when he finally decided he could "tolerate" being in the same room, his ass would find an empty room! As in, I would be outta there.

This is no way to live. Please leave and file.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This sounds absolutely ghastly. If it were me, at the end of the 4 days when he finally decided he could "tolerate" being in the same room, his ass would find an empty room! As in, I would be outta there.
> 
> This is no way to live. Please leave and file.


30 days is bs. He is messing with you. And 4 days of silence (he announces this? Really?) is ridiculous. Why are you buying into this immature ridiculousness?? Give him silence forever. What is there really to discuss??? 

Why...if you are separated....do you even talk to him? MAYBE he thinks separation means DONE. Maybe he is done talking about things. Either way, you are doing this to yourself. At the very least.... distance your self mentally, emotionally, physically, etc... Consider this marriage over. 

Since finances are what is holding you there, why not file now while you can afford to? Start getting your ducks in a row. Do what you can to make your life better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrsHolland said:


> If my husband told me he needed 4 days to even be in the same room as me then it would be the end. This is no way to live, no person is worth belittling yourself for. Your husband has serious issues.


Same here. Does he have other controlling or abusive tendencies?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Yeah... Behave, don't P him off, and maybe he'll hold a conversation with you again after a month. 

Wth? That is childish behavior. 

I'd be gone. Life's too short for that bag of stress.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

4 days to a month is unreasonable. At that rate, it will take years or more than a lifetime to talk about things, get understanding, and come to agreements.

You need to find a new MC, or at least tell the MC and your husband that the extended time period for stonewalling is not OK with you, and if it continues, you don't want to be in the relationship that is destined to fail as long as those tactics are being used.

30 min to an hour is sufficient time for a cool down. Then whoever walked away from the conversation must be the one to start it up again.


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## UnicornCupcake (Dec 8, 2016)

As a part-time stone waller, I'll give my 0.02 cents:

I stone wall because I can be a wordy [email protected] and if I don't stone wall and collect myself I can say some truly nasty things. Once I get going it's quite hard to stop so I do need to give myself some time to STFU or I'll just make the situation worse. I tell my husband when I'm doing this, though and I put a pretty concise timeline (24 h/12 h/6 h/ect.) I'm also a little dramatic in my expression, tone, etc. so I need to mentally prepare myself to be monosyllabic and get my resting ***** face (especially that judgmental eyebrow) under control.

Last night, for example, I seriously sprained (potentially broke) my ankle and I'm LIVID. It jeopardizes my new job, my new training sessions (I've finally lost those last ten pounds and was so proud of myself), basically, my entire life. I'm BITTER and angry and I hate the world. I had to tell him to just leave me be until tomorrow morning when I'll officially stop feeling sorry for myself. I put a time line on it because right now I Just want to cry. Slept on the couch, too just because I wanted to cry myself to sleep and feel sorry for myself, lol. If I didn't TELL him what I'd doing I can only imagine how he'd feel having a wife want to sleep on the couch.

So, I think it can be a successful communication technique as long as it's not being used to avoid confrontation.

Your situation though sounds more like abuse.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

chronicallyfrustrated said:


> and has demanded 4 days until he can even bear to be in the same room with me.


I'd smile and grab his coat and tell him he can wait his ass outside for 4 days then. I'd also want to change the locks and just keep him out there. There is no way I could deal with that. 

I could deal with a "I'm so grumpy and overtired right now that I'm going to make things worse. Let's sleep on it, discuss tomorrow" 

30 days to discuss an issue? Nope. Never.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's emotional abuse, you know.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'd smile and grab his coat and tell him he can wait his ass outside for 4 days then. I'd also want to change the locks and just keep him out there. There is no way I could deal with that.
> 
> *I could deal with a "I'm so grumpy and overtired right now that I'm going to make things worse. Let's sleep on it, discuss tomorrow" *
> 
> 30 days to discuss an issue? Nope. Never.


This is what a sane, rational person would do. Yep I could easily cope with that because it is honest and not intended to hurt.

It is interesting that the OPs husband can put a time frame on how long it will take before he is able to talk about an issue, that is super calculating and controlling. 30 days is also a ridiculously long time for an adult to need to "cool down" before they discuss a subject. This man is sucking your life down the drain.


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Thanks to everyone who responded!

After MC intervention, DH and I were able to talk at length yesterday. After we got the original issue out of the way (the issue for which he had initially stonewalled me,) I emphasized that this kind of behavior is not OK with me, and no matter how much love I have for him, my side of the relationship will not survive this. DH and I have agreed that no stonewalling should last longer than 12 hours, and DH agrees to make a solid effort to revisit difficult issues in just a few hours. 

I also made it very clear that getting over this emotional behavior of his is essential to having children, which is a big deal to DH in our marriage.

I think things will improve from here, but responses in this thread (as well as responses from our MC/IC) have certainly reinforced that it's totally valid that DH's stonewalling feels abusive. I'm happy that DH has agreed to place more fair timelines on things, but we'll see how it plays out in action. If things don't improve, I'm going to be forced to walk away. That prospect makes me very sad, but I'm feeling optimistic right now, and don't think it will come to that.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

There is a free podcast at 
How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It : TwoOfUs.org
You have to click on the download the podcast (MP3) line halfway down the pageMP3 link

How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It, by Steven Stosny 

The podcast explains how some men think, not how to solve your problem right now.

I have his book and read it but I got more out of the podcast.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Cooper said:


> Honestly a "time line for stone walling" is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Your psychologist has just legitimatized an avoidance tool. What happens in a month when you broach the subject and he just get's pissed again and extends the silence sentence?
> 
> A legitimate time line would be walking around the block for an hour until emotions simmer down.
> 
> But I'm not a psychologist, I'm just a guy who wouldn't tolerate the passive aggressive silent treatment crap.


Amen. Me either.



MrsHolland said:


> Oh wow, what a hideous existence. If you are separated under the one roof why not just put an end to this misery and move out?
> 
> If my husband told me he needed 4 days to even be in the same room as me then it would be the end. This is no way to live, no person is worth belittling yourself for. Your husband has serious issues.


Same.

OP what an absolute steaming pile of **** that advice from your counsellor was. At the very least, she should have been much more specific with your DH as to what is an acceptable timeline.

I'm not sure I'd be able to keep my attraction to a man who behaved this way to be honest. What a whiny princess.


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