# I need some outside opinions on a situation..



## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

My wife and I have been married for about 5 years now and we have had our ups and our downs including her cheating on me. I became extremely protective after this in an unhealthy way that I am still trying to manage but have gotten better about. Anyhow, here is my question. My wife has this friend that she has been speaking to now for well over a year. Some of their conversations have turned sexual before, by the friend mind you and as a result of this I have been suspicious of his true intentions. It seems that when my wife has an issue concerning me she turns to him for advice which my wife seeking advice or help from someone or just looking to blow off some steam is fine by me, don't we all need that? I just feel however that he makes a bad situation worse. 


Recently she and I have had a seperation scare that left me really bad but we had decided to work things out. Well I just happened to stumble upon messages between her and him where he is asking about her underwear, telling her how worked up he gets over her, wants to send her money to come up to meet him, etc. Worst part of it is she is receptive to it. She did not respond too much to the sexual conversation but said that I would not be "allowed" to freak out about it and pretty much saying to hell with any consequences that may stem from this. So.. my question is what should I do? I want to confront her but I will just be told that I invaded her private messages and shouldn't have read them even though I think if any other individual was in this situation they would have the same response.

Should I tell her it is a bad idea? I don't know how to go about that because I have tried and I am just written off. She will say, "Oh, I know him." or "You don't think I know how to take care of myself?"

Please, I am really desperate. I am sure she sees nothing at all wrong with this and I do and I hate to say this but if she did go I just couldn't accept that. I really want my marriage to work because I love my wife and our child and would do anything to make it work. Anything except be treated like a second-class citizen. Please help..


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

How was her first cheat? Physical or emotional?


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## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

Both, actually. In the same period of time she had cheated on me physically with her ex and emotionally with some guy she met on Facebook from Florida. They would talk for hours a day. Thinking about some of the message she had sends chills through out me. She also had phone sex with this guy. Anyhow, what is the point to this? These two people I just brought up are not the same person mentioned in the initial post. This person desperately wants to meet her though and apparently so does she...and he is so obviously wanting her and she doesn't say anything back, but thats just it, she does not really acknowledge it as if she is not saying yes but she is not objective either.


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## Hunger (Mar 26, 2012)

Sounds like an ongoing emotional affair. 

This is absolutely unappropriate behavior and it blows my mind that she acts like it is no big deal and tries to make you feel bad. 

You need to confront her. She needs to know how you truly feel because you are a team.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

She's in the midst of and EA right now.


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## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

Please give more feedback..


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She's deep in an emotional affair that going to go physical as soon as they can manage it. Confront her and tell her no more conversations with men concerning your relationship. 

Sounds like you should have separated before. You are being played for a fool. Demnad no contact with the OM.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You should start reading at this link, good luck:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

OP your wife is cheating on you right now.

Based on your post, you're going to need a lot of help to get through this.

She has already checked out of the marriage and you need to start working on you and how to move forward.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go-16.html#post536041

Read the just let them go as well as all the other links in Morituri's thread, it will help you get through this.


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## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

She will just say that I am controlling her if I do that.. funny she calls me controlling but it seems like she has me under control.. ****. This sucks.. I feel like if I do that I am literally pulling the trigger on my marriage but I just can't lay here waiting to get hurt either and it is ****ed how she doesn't recognize any of this and how she does not realizing how this makes me feel.. ugh.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

From your post it appears your wife is a serial cheater. Yes, her current emotional affair with the OM is cheating on you yet again. A wife should never share marriage problems with a man other than her husband (excepting minister or counselor). With the tone of his messages and her response I think your marriage is over you just will not admit it. 

This is the most telling statement;

*Worst part of it is she is receptive to it. She did not respond too much to the sexual conversation but said that I would not be "allowed" to freak out about it and pretty much saying to hell with any consequences that may stem from this.*

She has no respect for you. She has not love for you. She is telling the OM that she is in control and your feelings do not matter. She is receptive to meeting with a guy whose intentions are obviously sexual and she says to hell with what you think.

If your assessment of her is on target, then she is a serial cheater who shows no remorse and thinks you are just an unimportant second choice, if that. Because she has had a PA and EA prior to this and did not suffer from them, I don't see her changing. Might be time to pull the plug. See a lawyer and get things started.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

My outside opinion on your situation is that you have an extremely legitimate concern about your wife's relationship with a man who wants to have sex with her and has told her so. What do you think should be a normal answer from a wife when another man propositions her for sex? In my "normal" world, the wife would emphatically tell the man, "NO, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN YOU" and would break off contact with the man.

My opinion is also that the way your wife is allowing another man to proposition her for sex without protesting and then saying she wants to travel to meet him, with him paying for the trip, would make me think that she wants to have sex with him, too. And if she makes the trip, if I were in your shoes, I would assume they would be having sex. I can't believe you would question yourself and have to ask for other's opinions on this. 

My opinion is also that husbands' and wives' emails and other messages and devices should not be secret from each other and that a married person should not be upset if the other spouse looked at their messages.

These are my opinions even if there were no history of cheating. Given a history of cheating, my opinion is that the wife should be doing everything she can to assure her husband that she is not and will not be cheating again, not make him think he is crazy for questioning wildly unreasonable behavior.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> She will just say that I am controlling her if I do that.. funny she calls me controlling but it seems like she has me under control.. ****. This sucks.. I feel like if I do that I am literally pulling the trigger on my marriage but I just can't lay here waiting to get hurt either and it is ****ed how she doesn't recognize any of this and how she does not realizing how this makes me feel.. ugh.


You aren't pulling the trigger on the marriage, she did by sleeping with other men.

She is having an emotional affair right now with her "friend"

This is not acceptable.

You are a push over and have been her doormat, she has lost all respect for you a long time ago.

It sucks hearing that, I know because I have been a doormat. This is not what women want. In the link I posted earlier there is another link called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" you need to read that as well.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> She will just say that I am controlling her if I do that.. funny she calls me controlling but it seems like she has me under control.. ****. This sucks.. I feel like if I do that I am literally pulling the trigger on my marriage but I just can't lay here waiting to get hurt either and it is ****ed how she doesn't recognize any of this and how she does not realizing how this makes me feel.. ugh.


She know how this makes you feel. But as she stated to OM - she does not care about you or the pain you are in. You are "not allowed" to object to her affairs.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*I really want my marriage to work because I love my wife and our child and would do anything to make it work*

This is your problem. She knows you would do anything and PUT UP WITH ANYTHING to make the marriage work. She doesn't care if the marriage doesn't work, at least nowhere near as much as you. She is confident that you will take her back no matter what. You've already overlooked her behavior several times in the past. She got to have her fun and her family/financial security blanket.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*my wife seeking advice or help from someone or just looking to blow off some steam is fine by me, don't we all need that?*

Yes, we do. In a healthy marriage, we have our spouse to communicate with, not someone of the opposite sex who is asking us about our underwear and telling us how much they are attracted to us.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*I am sure she sees nothing at all wrong with this *

If she doesn't know this is wrong for a married woman, she is delusional and should see a psychiatrist.

Of course your wife sees something wrong with this. Wrong in the sense that you will be mad about it, but not wrong in the sense that she wants it and knows she can get you to put up with it.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

No respect, no love. You are being cucked by a serial cheater. 

When she said "you don't think I can take care of myself? Damn, man she is an ADULTERESS. She is gonna go heals up under this guy and you are holding the condoms (if your lucky) and the douche for her afterwards. Go to the wall (the thicker the better) hit your head against wall and repeat "Thank you sir, may have another. Thank you sir, may I have another" Where is kando? this guy needs to see what a real man (one with self respect) does.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> My opinion is also that husbands' and wives' emails and other messages and devices should not be secret from each other and that a married person should not be upset if the other spouse looked at their messages.


I totally agree with this. If you have to hide, sneak, or lie to do it; then you shouldn't be doing it. PERIOD!!!! If there was nothing in her messages, emails, etc., indicating there was something going on, then she'd have NO reason to be upset; she's upset because you've BUSTED her. She has NO respect for you, your marriage, and quite frankly, your child either. 

I'd print those messages, if possible, and keep them for your lawyer. If she goes on that trip, she needs to come to a divorce agreement. Sorry....I know that's not what you want to hear, but she's taking You for a RIDE that you need to put the brakes on!! (pun intended)


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Time to stand up for yourself.

Tell your wife that she must begin to act like a married woman and tell this other guy to back off with the sex remarks because she is not attracted to him, she is married, she respects and loves her husband, she values her family, and she does not want to lose her husband and family. Isn't this something that you would expect of any normal wife in this situation, unless she was attracted to him and wanted to have sex with him. She must then cease contact with him.

If she disagrees, tell her you think you should talk to your parents and siblings and other friends about the situation, tell them exactly what your past history was about, exactly what the content of the messages were, and see what they think about it. Then you will see if she really thinks how she is behaving is OK.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> Both, actually. In the same period of time she had cheated on me physically with her ex and emotionally with some guy she met on Facebook from Florida. They would talk for hours a day. Thinking about some of the message she had sends chills through out me. She also had phone sex with this guy. Anyhow, what is the point to this? These two people I just brought up are not the same person mentioned in the initial post. This person desperately wants to meet her though and apparently so does she...and he is so obviously wanting her and she doesn't say anything back, but thats just it, she does not really acknowledge it as if she is not saying yes but she is not objective either.


Don't you see a trend here? She cheated on you, you forgave her but she did again/is doing now, and will continue to do so.

You're only chance to save the marriage(Most people would have walked away actually ran away, on the first affair) is do the 180, have her do NC with the OM and have her fb messages, text's open to you constatly.


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## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you everyone for the advice. I went ahead and confronted her about it and to no surprise she got pissed off, combative, some what abusive and she has now left me. It hurts but she just won't acknowledge that this is not a healthy situation for US to be in if we are trying to fix our marriage. 

She said that she was going to lay the trip to Canada on me prior to it and see my reaction as a test to see if I would permit it which I think is absurd and she just fails to see that. This really ****ing sucks. I feel as if I have lost a part of me.. I offered her marriage counseling for both of us (she refused because me bothering her about this after a night out was unacceptable) because I do agree I have problems but she has to understand her past infedelities have helped to cause some of these problems and even if her intentions are good she fails to see how the situation is wrong at all. 

I really hope that she can take a few days to cool off and see where I am coming from on this and will want to work all of this out. I know she loves me and our daughter.. and I honestly think that she loves me too but we just cannot see eye to eye on this and it is causing us both too much tension. Maybe this is for the best?? Certainly doesn't feel like it at the moment.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> Thank you everyone for the advice. I went ahead and confronted her about it and to no surprise she got pissed off, combative, some what abusive and she has no left me. It hurts but she just won't acknowledge that this is not a healthy situation for US to be in if we are trying to fix our marriage.
> 
> She said that she was going to lay the trip to Canada on me prior to it and see my reaction as a test to see if I would permit it which I think is absurd and she just fails to see that. This really ****ing sucks. I feel as if I have lost a part of me.. I offered her marriage counseling for both of us (she refused because be bothering her about this after a night out was unacceptable) because I do agree I have problems but she has to understand her past infedelities have helped to cause these problems and even if her intentions are good she fails to see how the situation is wrong at all.
> 
> I really hope that she can take a few days to cool off and see where I am coming from on this and will want to work all of this out. I know she loves me and our daughter.. and I honestly think that she loves me too but we just cannot see eye to eye on this and it is causing us both too much tension. Maybe this is for the best?? Certainly doesn't feel like it at the moment.


My friend, you are in denial if you think she loves you and the family when she is still behaving like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You have done well so far.

You ALWAYS have caved in to her in the past. Now she is like a child throwing a tantrum to get her way. She fully expects you to cave in and let her have her way.

The questions from my seat are: (1) does she really love you and will change her mind when you don't give in? OR does she really not care that much about your marriage or somehow believe this guy might be "the one" for her?

What are you going to do if she goes through with the trip or continues the inappropriate relationship?

Give it a day, two at most. Talk to her about what is appropriate in a marriage and what you expect from her and what she can expect from you going forward. Let her know you love her and want to improve yourself as a husband and you want to improve your marriage, but that you will no longer allow yourself to be treated as a doormat while she carries on inappropriate relationships with other men.

Tell her if she can't agree to act appropriately in your marriage as your wife, then you will file for divorce. Then, if she doesn't go along, do it. You will get one of two results, both of which are better than where you are now. Either she will agree to act as a wife should, and you can then stop the divorce process, or she will let the divorce proceed and decide she doesn't want to be married to you, which at least you will know the truth about how she really feels about you and you can move on with your life without prolonging the agony of living with a wife who consistently has sought the attention of other men.


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## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

Sounds logical.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> She will just say that I am controlling her if I do that.. funny she calls me controlling but it seems like she has me under control.. ****. This sucks.. I feel like if I do that I am literally pulling the trigger on my marriage but I just can't lay here waiting to get hurt either and it is ****ed how she doesn't recognize any of this and how she does not realizing how this makes me feel.. ugh.


Why would a man be fearful of being called controlling? Is being called controlling more hurtful to you than another man pounding into your wife? I mean really. It is a word. The word itself is used to manipulate and cotrol peaople. A man who loves, respects and does not mistreat his wife should never fear being called jealous, insecure or controlling. This is the rhetoric of cheating. A way to paralyze a man form being a man.

Actually she is controlling you and cuckholding you right now. Why would a man allow that? 

You are not waiting to be hurt. She is doing it right now.

I actually have no idea why you would allow her to have a male friend at all. Especially since she cheated on you.

She realizes exactly what she is doing. She gets off cuckholding you. She likes having another man dominate you. She is attraxted to the OM because he tells her he would never allow this.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

If you take her back,without her meeting your expectation and being completely remorseful and honest,then you're just condoning her behavior.You should expect to cycle through this whole experience over and over the more you rug sweep and take her back.Sorry for where you are,but hell she's not on the dating scene,she's married and you should hold her accountable.


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## Just Tired Of It All (Oct 22, 2011)

Now is the time to do the 180 my freind.... I did it, thanks to the advice of the fine people here on TAM... Dramatic diffrence in my spouse.. boy did it cause Spouses attitude toward me to change.. went from ignoring me, belittling me, and hatfulness toward me.. To listning, ending the affair, and keeps temper down.. and Im not the crazy one no more.. I am still working on the 180, its a work in-progress..

But the point I am trying to make is that I feel 100% sure that if I would had continued on the path I was on, I would surley had lost my mind... and my marriage.....

Listen to the advice of the people here on TAM, they know what there talking about..... My situation was horriable, I was doing it all wrong.. one thing they got threw my head pretty fast was dont call, text, go see or contact Spouse.. dont chase them....beg, plead, bargain.. heck dont even ask them about it.. Let me tell you, once I stopped all communication and just let it sink in that I had enough and I wasnt going to chase my spouse, hoping that my crazyiness, ---and yes it gets to the point sadley your behavior can seem crazy desperate-- that it would make my spouse stop... Well it turned out that this scared my spouse into a little wake up call... first time my spouse had any feeling that he was truley going to loose me, that I wasnt going to be home with open arms no more.... I WAS NOT HIS DOOR MAT!!!!


Then, thats when my spouse started to come around... And you know what,,, it felt great.. because I am worth more... and it made me realize this for my-self.... I am still working on my R.. SLOWLY... but you gotta take the first step.. and let me tell you.. ITS A BIG ONE.. but you gotta start somewere......... TAM people can help you more than you could imagiane, if you really listen and keep posting, and they will help you alot.......at first you may think, thats not going to work, I am going to push them away, or make them think I dont care, or send them into the OP arms.. sad part there already in the OP arms...... So thats what got me to thinking, I am just going to do the suggestion from the folks here on TAM... I wasnt going to forcefully have my arms around my spouse while he had his around the AP... because you know what, he was trying to get out of my arms, so I let him go... he came running back fast after the people on TAM wised me up!!!! GOOD LUCK...


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## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

I told her that if she cannot cut ties with him and we cannot seek whatever help is available to us than it must end.

I am tired of being made to feel like a bad person for this. I know that I am not perfect but I have never harmed my wife.. the worst I do is bug her when she is out with her girlfriends because she would tell me I will be home at such and such a time, that times comes, half an hour goes by, nothing. Last call at the bar, she is there. Hour after it closes she finally comes home. She doesn't understand. 

She thinks that I am infringing upon her freedoms, thats what she says when really its that I felt like I was lied to, and then worse I genuinely worried about her and her saftey but evidently I am not suppose to. She says that I shouldn't set a time limit, maybe she is right but damn it all I am guilty of is loving her, wanting her back home so that we can cuddle and go to sleep. I did over react to a situation when we seperated a week or more ago. It actually caused the seperation. The situation was blown up, mainly because I was working a 12 hour day and feeling like **** and plus I was not talking directly to her about it and it was through text which does not help.

Regradless I am going to heed some of your advice. I may not have had the nerve to do this otherwise. I am sick of it and can't take it anymore. I love my wife but this is intolerable.

Furthermore, during that seperation period she refriended the ex she had cheated on me with one year ago and started striking up conversations with the guy from Florida that she had an emotional affair with a year ago. Getting her to undo that act was like pulling teeth. She said she felt like she had to do it because when she was pissed off she was going through "I can do whatever I want including talking to men that my husband wont allow me to speak with", that was her reasoning for it but still.. maybe that act alone spoke volumes on her intentions. I don't know.

I figure though that if she wanted this situation to be well, she would have at least put forth effort. I am still going to hang in and hope for the best but I am not going to be played or used in the process. I want her to understand that I just CANT be with her if she doesnt find this kind of activity to be inapproriate and that it isn't because I don't love her but because it is disrespectful to me, to her and to our marriage and family.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> I told her that if she cannot cut ties with him and we cannot seek whatever help is available to us than it must end.
> 
> I am tired of being made to feel like a bad person for this. I know that I am not perfect but I have never harmed my wife.. the worst I do is bug her when she is out with her girlfriends because she would tell me I will be home at such and such a time, that times comes, half an hour goes by, nothing. Last call at the bar, she is there. Hour after it closes she finally comes home. She doesn't understand.
> 
> ...


Infringing on her freedoms? Really? And what kinds of freedoms does she think MARRIED WOMEN are entitled to? Friend your wife doesn't sound like she is ready to be married. In fact, she sounds like a woman that may never be ready to be married. She wants a marriage in name only but she wants to continue to party and act like she is single. If she can't commit to being married, cut her loose and let her be single. Otherwise you will find yourself in a one sided open relationship. I'll be honest, I don't see anything here that would indicate you are being unreasonable in any way.


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## Concerned_Hubby (Mar 31, 2012)

I don't believe she really wants to be or is acting single she just doesn't see anything wrong with her actions, and lack thereof and you know I have wondered that.. maybe she got married too young. maybe these responsibilities are not right for her.. but if thats the case she doesn't have to string me along because of the mess that might be afterward or because its convenient at this time. I want to be married and have a long fulfilling life with someone who loves and respects me and well.. if she can't do that or just doesn't want to do that well.. at least I know that I have tried. There really is no consolation in all of this.. best I can do is hope that this makes us stronger and, if it breaks us I am just going to have to pick up the pieces and try to recreate my life.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> I don't believe she really wants to be or is acting single she just doesn't see anything wrong with her actions, and lack thereof and you know I have wondered that.. maybe she got married too young. maybe these responsibilities are not right for her.. but if thats the case she doesn't have to string me along because of the mess that might be afterward or because its convenient at this time. I want to be married and have a long fulfilling life with someone who loves and respects me and well.. if she can't do that or just doesn't want to do that well.. at least I know that I have tried. There really is no consolation in all of this.. best I can do is hope that this makes us stronger and, if it breaks us I am just going to have to pick up the pieces and try to recreate my life.


QUIT DEFENDING AND MAKING EXCUSES FOR HER AND HER ACTIONS. Regardless of what you think the reasons may be, it doesn't give her the right to cheat.

You have to accept what has happened to you, and what kind of person your wife is.

I think she made it pretty clear she doesn't want what you want.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi.
I am so sorry you are with us but it is great that you are here. 

Your wife has zero respect for you and sees you as a "family member". This is a terrible position to be in and one that is very hard to recover from. Sorry. She has checked out. 

You need to Let her Go

You have allowed her to control you. You love her and the family unit. She has had a physical affair and is setting up to have another one despite you asking her not to.
She absolutely believes that you will be fine with this because you allowed it before. 

You need to stop making excuses for her. You need to look at your own life and consider what effect this behaviour is having on your childs view of you.

Much of the advice on here looks counter-intuitive but it is the only way you can move forward, with or without your wife.

You should sit down quietly and write down some boundaries.


Is it acceptable for your wife to screw other men?
Is it acceptable for your wife to have a love affair with another man?
Is it acceptable for her send erotic photos?
 Do more..


Only YOU can answer these questions. 

It is good you are tired of it. It is good you are ready to set boundaries. Well done  

*Immediate hard 180.* 
READ IT. 
I guarantee that however radical you think you are being right now looking back in 12 months you will feel like a wimp and wished you had done more.

RIGHT NOW
Cancel shared credit cards.
Open a personal bank account and get your wages put in there.
Password protect your computer account.
Do not tell her about this site. 
Install a keylogger on her computer do not tell her.

Stay with us you are in for a rough ride..


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: I need some outside opinions on a situation...*

You have made great progress so far.

Remember, she is used to getting her way and still expects that you will cave in to her. Get ready, her arguments will make less sense than ever. Don't let her engage you in nonsensical arguments.

Having a plan and staying focused on your goal will help you deal with her. 

Stay consistent in your message to her about what you want and need from her.

It is likely that you will not be able to save your marriage no matter what you do. Your only chance at saving it will be making her decide, does she want to act like a married woman or a single woman. No matter what happens, at least you can carry on with dignity and self-respect.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Okay, I really hope I’m not wasting my time with this, because whenever I spend a lot of effort on a situation, the BH is so beta and cuckolded, that it falls on deaf ears. Based on what I’ve seen so far in this thread, this BH had better man up and change his way of thinking. It looks like this is an unrepentant, unremorseful serial cheating WW who is used to treating her husband like a doormat.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> My wife and I have been married for about 5 years now and we have had our ups and our downs including her cheating on me.


So she starts cheating so early in the marriage? Big RED FLAG. Whenever that happens so early, it shows how little respect she has for you.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> I became extremely protective after this in an unhealthy way that I am still trying to manage but have gotten better about.


What do you mean unhealthy? You need to read the stories here. We ALL become hypervigilant after being betrayed, its part of the healing process. But it seems you swept it under the rug. When you swept it under the rug, with no consequences to her, she’s bound to repeat it, and it looks like she did.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Anyhow, here is my question. My wife has this friend that she has been speaking to now for well over a year. Some of their conversations have turned sexual before, by the friend mind you and as a result of this I have been suspicious of his true intentions.


This is now obviously a FULL ON Emotional Affair (EA). Friends don’t have sexual conversations with each other. And this has been going on for well over a year? 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> It seems that when my wife has an issue concerning me she turns to him for advice which my wife seeking advice or help from someone or just looking to blow off some steam is fine by me, don't we all need that? I just feel however that he makes a bad situation worse.


When she turns to him for advice, this means she’s badmouthing you to him, or demonizing you, and like most OM, he’s agreeing with her and telling her that he would treat her right and that you’re a POS. You call it blowing off steam. Instead of turning to you and communicating with you, she’s demonizing you to her OM. 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Recently she and I have had a seperation scare that left me really bad but we had decided to work things out.


I see she left, and since you called it a “scare”, I bet that you were so afraid, that you begged her to come home, most likely with you crying, begging, and pleading. This looks even more unattractive to her and made her respect you even less than she already does.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Well I just happened to stumble upon messages between her and him where he is asking about her underwear, telling her how worked up he gets over her, wants to send her money to come up to meet him, etc. Worst part of it is she is receptive to it. She did not respond too much to the sexual conversation but said that I would not be "allowed" to freak out about it and pretty much saying to hell with any consequences that may stem from this.


Now this clearly shows how little this OM respects you and how much more your WW disrespects you. This OM wants to send her money for her to come see him? Obviously he thinks your already a doormat. Your WW clearly thinks you’re just a doormat since you won’t be allowed to interfere with their plans to hook up and f#ck. 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Please, I am really desperate. I am sure she sees nothing at all wrong with this and I do and I hate to say this but if she did go I just couldn't accept that.


Like Will Kane said, this is your problem: You’re desperate. You need to read the books “No More Mr Nice Guy” and start manning up.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> I really want my marriage to work because I love my wife and our child and would do anything to make it work. Anything except be treated like a second-class citizen. Please help.


You’re being treated worse than a second class citizen, you’re being treated as a slave and a babysitter. A babysitter is all you are to her right now.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> She will just say that I am controlling her if I do that.. funny she calls me controlling but it seems like she has me under control.. ****. This sucks.. I feel like if I do that I am literally pulling the trigger on my marriage but I just can't lay here waiting to get hurt either and it is ****ed how she doesn't recognize any of this and how she does not realizing how this makes me feel.. ugh.


It’s not controlling to protect your marriage. This is CLASSIC CHEATER blame shifting. Do not allow this. This comes straight out of the cheaters handbook. So many men are deathly afraid of being accused of being controlling, that their cheating wives take advantage of that by playing the controlling card. Look, you’re supposed to protect your marriage. You’re supposed to c0ckblock other men. 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Thank you everyone for the advice. I went ahead and confronted her about it and to no surprise she got pissed off, combative, some what abusive and she has now left me. It hurts but she just won't acknowledge that this is not a healthy situation for US to be in if we are trying to fix our marriage.


Of course she left, because she fully expects you to cry, and beg, and plead for her to come home. What you should do is pack her stuff and leave it on the porch and tell her not to come home. Now is the time to start separating your finances. Stop financing her affairs! Lawyer up now!



Concerned_Hubby said:


> She said that she was going to lay the trip to Canada on me prior to it and see my reaction as a test to see if I would permit it which I think is absurd and she just fails to see that.


Of course it’s absurd. She doesn’t respect you, not one bit.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> I offered her marriage counseling for both of us (she refused because me bothering her about this after a night out was unacceptable) because I do agree I have problems but she has to understand her past infedelities have helped to cause some of these problems and even if her intentions are good she fails to see how the situation is wrong at all.


Marriage counseling (MC) is useless when one is in an affair. They won’t listen anyway because they’re deep in the fog. Of course all her infidelities are affecting you now because you swept them under the rug which never allowed you to heal. She broke the trust and never had to earn it back because of your rug sweeping. 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> I really hope that she can take a few days to cool off and see where I am coming from on this and will want to work all of this out. I know she loves me and our daughter.. and I honestly think that she loves me too but we just cannot see eye to eye on this and it is causing us both too much tension. Maybe this is for the best?? Certainly doesn't feel like it at the moment.


No, you need to tell her she cannot come home unless she goes No Contact (NC) with ALL her OM. This is OM #3 now, correct? That makes it 2 EAs, and a PA, with this EA going PA soon because she doesn’t respect you, your child, or your marriage.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> I told her that if she cannot cut ties with him and we cannot seek whatever help is available to us than it must end.


Finally you’re doing something right.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> I am tired of being made to feel like a bad person for this. I know that I am not perfect but I have never harmed my wife..


And you shouldn’t feel bad. She’s blameshifted everything on to you for so long, that you’re starting to accept it. Cheating is 100% her fault.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> the worst I do is bug her when she is out with her girlfriends because she would tell me I will be home at such and such a time, that times comes, half an hour goes by, nothing. Last call at the bar, she is there. Hour after it closes she finally comes home. She doesn't understand.


This is yet another thing which allowed her to disrespect you. She’s been cheating, and yet you allow her to go on Girls Night Out (GNOs) with her Toxic Friends? And what are you doing? Just sitting at home like the good hubby and being the babysitter while she dances and flirts with other men. 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> She thinks that I am infringing upon her freedoms, thats what she says when really its that I felt like I was lied to, and then worse I genuinely worried about her and her saftey but evidently I am not suppose to. She says that I shouldn't set a time limit, maybe she is right but damn it all I am guilty of is loving her, wanting her back home so that we can cuddle and go to sleep.


And again, she plays the controlling card whenever you start to protest. It works very well on you it seems. She’s cake eating. She wants the security of marriage, and the freedom to act like a single woman and bang other men. Time limit? She shouldn’t be going out at all except if she’s with you. 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Regradless I am going to heed some of your advice. I may not have had the nerve to do this otherwise. I am sick of it and can't take it anymore. I love my wife but this is intolerable.


Some advice? You had better heed more than that. We’ve all been where you are. We know what works and what doesn’t. And you shouldn’t tolerate this sh!t.



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Furthermore, during that seperation period she refriended the ex she had cheated on me with one year ago and started striking up conversations with the guy from Florida that she had an emotional affair with a year ago.


Oh I see. She reconnected with OM#1, and started up with OM#2. 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> Getting her to undo that act was like pulling teeth. She said she felt like she had to do it because when she was pissed off she was going through "I can do whatever I want including talking to men that my husband wont allow me to speak with", that was her reasoning for it but still.. maybe that act alone spoke volumes on her intentions. I don't know.


She’s used to getting her way with you, that much is obvious. This is a woman that demonizes you to everyone and doesn’t respect you. Why do you want to be with her? 



Concerned_Hubby said:


> I figure though that if she wanted this situation to be well, she would have at least put forth effort.


She never did. Look at this table. Your WW is nowhere on the chart. You need true remorse for R to happen.


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## gpa (Feb 22, 2012)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> I don't believe she really wants to be or is acting single she just doesn't see anything wrong with her actions, and lack thereof and you know I have wondered that.. maybe she got married too young. maybe these responsibilities are not right for her.. but if thats the case she doesn't have to string me along because of the mess that might be afterward or because its convenient at this time. I want to be married and have a long fulfilling life with someone who loves and respects me and well.. if she can't do that or just doesn't want to do that well.. at least I know that I have tried. There really is no consolation in all of this.. best I can do is hope that this makes us stronger and, if it breaks us I am just going to have to pick up the pieces and try to recreate my life.


Well said. Then act accordingly. And tell her that marriage as any close society is not a place to exercise all kinds of freedoms.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Basically Mayhem, and everyone else has given you what you need---but I will throw in my opinion for the he*l of it.

You may have a licensce, and you may have a child---but you sure as he*l don't have a mge.----People who just CASUALLY DATE, WOULDN'T STAND FOR WHAT YOU ARE ALLOWING TO HAPPEN

Let's start with PRIVACY------there is NO privacy in a mge.---You wanna stay PRIVATE , stay single

What the he*l is your wife doing going to bars-----she is married, she IS F'ING SPOSE TO BE HOME WITH HER CHILD, AND H.

Was there any type of response from you as to her 1st 2 cheating episodes, or did you just let them slide----were there any F'ING consequences---and now you say she has resumed contact with both of her prior lovers, that is because, you do NOTHING, in the way of forcing ACCOUNTABILITY/CONSEQUENCES

What are you a F'ING child----you certainly can't claim to be a normal male/H---cuz a normal male/H, would have put a stop to all of this crap---LONG AGO

You can't control your wife---that is true---but you do control you, and you control what finances you bring into the mge.

Do either of you have any idea what the definition of mge., EVEN IS

1st thing you do tomorrow---is CANCEL all of your wife's credit cards----on monday---you transfer all marital assets, into an acct., with your name only on the acct.

Tomorrow---you very ICILY, CALMLY, tell your wife, the mge. is over, and to get the he*l out and go be with her many lovers, in fact take all her clothes and throw them out on the lawn

You have to let her know you will take not one F'ING minute of her crap any more---she is either a married wife/mother, or she can be divorced, and single, as of RIGHT NOW------You do not allow her to answer, blowup, discuss, nothing.------Do all of this with a VAR, and if she some much as touches you---call the police IMMEDIATELY.

YOU MUST MAKE IT VERY CLEAR AND APPARENT TO HER----you are done with this---THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL WAKE HER UP----right now, she is just dancing her way thru life, and believe me---at this point you and your child are NOTHING to her

You can talk about love all you want, but you can't love someone, who repeatedly treats you as if you are there to just provide her with greenback dollars, so SHE CAN KEEP ON ENJOYING HER LIFESTYLE

It's time for her to change, like YESTERDAY, or your mge., or what's left of it, to END.


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## vickyyy (Oct 28, 2011)

why do u want to live life with someone who does not respect u and see u no more that a cuckold.
stop behaving like a doormat.MAN UP baby!
every action of ur wife must have consequences.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Vicky is absolutely right. You really do not have a wife or a marriage right now.

Man up. What are really going to lose other than a woman who acts single and is a cheater. 

All Yu really are right now is the family babysitter.

It is time to set up your boundaries and show her the consequences of her actions.

Do not wait any longer. Otherwise she will be on a plane to see the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Vicky is absolutely right. You really do not have a wife or a marriage right now.
> 
> Man up. What are really going to lose other than a woman who acts single and is a cheater.
> 
> ...


IKR? She's got some nerve. He won't be allowed to freak out?Unfreakingbelievable.

*THREE affairs* in a 5 year marriage. WTF? He had better get the kid DNA tested. This serial cheater is a player and makes no bones about it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

In case you haven't seen a link to the 180, here it is. Read it carerfully, many people see things in it that are not there. You do not show anger and you don't become a jerk, for example.

Successful marriages do not include girls/boys nights out for reasons that should be obvious to anyone. Liquor makes'em go down quicker.

Good luck,

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I agree with what others have said. Stop rug sweeping if you want a m with her set some boundaries 
If she refuses then you have yr answer most posters would not recommend marriage for marriages sake or at all cost ie letting her cake eat as others have mentioned you should be willing to set these guidelines 
And not be affraid of the fallout you have done nothing wrong this is about her behaviors

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> I don't believe she really wants to be or is acting single she just doesn't see anything wrong with her actions, and lack thereof and you know I have wondered that.. maybe she got married too young. maybe these responsibilities are not right for her.. but if thats the case she doesn't have to string me along because of the mess that might be afterward or because its convenient at this time. I want to be married and have a long fulfilling life with someone who loves and respects me and well.. if she can't do that or just doesn't want to do that well.. at least I know that I have tried. There really is no consolation in all of this.. best I can do is hope that this makes us stronger and, if it breaks us I am just going to have to pick up the pieces and try to recreate my life.


Yeah this post pretty much shows that you have learned nothing. That if she would throw you a bone, any bone and you will be happy to continue your rug sweeping. You just can't seem to understand that your actions are that of cuckold. That your lack of self respect literally "sickens" your spouse. She is out looking for a man, because you refuse to be one.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

dude,grow some balls, your wifes not only using you as a doormat she's actually wiping her feet off on you. quit being a freakin wimp. were ever she's at take her clothes over there, report her to the proper authorities so she can't go to canada with your kid and seperate all moneys NOW.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Stop being a puss and get a handle on your cheating wife
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

She rubs her affairs and GNOs in his face. The level of contempt she has for him is disgusting. 

She wants the single life? Then she shouldn't be married. Talk about self entitlement. She should lead her single life as a single mother, see how easy that is. I wouldn't be surprised if she was having multiple ONSs from all the GNOs she goes out on.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> *I don't believe she really wants to be or is acting single* she just doesn't see anything wrong with her actions, and lack thereof and you know I have wondered that.. maybe she got married too young. maybe these responsibilities are not right for her.. but if thats the case she doesn't have to string me along because of the mess that might be afterward or because its convenient at this time. I want to be married and have a long fulfilling life with someone who loves and respects me and well.. if she can't do that or just doesn't want to do that well.. at least I know that I have tried. There really is no consolation in all of this.. best I can do is hope that this makes us stronger and, if it breaks us I am just going to have to pick up the pieces and try to recreate my life.


Sorry - when a married woman go to a bar and shuts the place down, that is not acceptable behavior. She is definitely acting as if she is a single party girl with no responsibilities.

Then she tries to shift the blame to you by calling you controlling and saying you are interfering with her freedom. Incredible. She does not consider herself married at all. To her marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper. It means nothing.

Get out now. You and your child will be better off. Concentrate on yourself and your child.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Your wife has already physically cheated on you with her ex and put your health at risk for STD's and now another emotional affair. She acts like she is single. My friend if the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would have accepted you physically cheating with your ex and having other emotional affairs with other women? She is playing you for a total fool. She has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Wow, you have produced a lot of responses! I believe because the writing is there on the wall but you are so desperate for it not to be there, you refuse to see it...and that is infuriating. There is nothing worse than watching a good person get treated like sh*t and for them to soak it up, and then to make excuses for the person that treats him so badly!

Anyway, put yourself in her shoes. You are married, you have so little regard for your marriage that you have affairs, and she takes u back with open arms. You continue to look elsewhere for your thrills, u go out on boys nights out even tho u cheated and so on and she is not allowed to have any concerns. Everytime u have her 'nag' u about it you call her names, call her controlling etc. You seperate, all her fault because she 'nagged' you and you just couldn't be arsed with it. So you leave til she calls and begs for u back, in the meantime get in touch with those women that gave you thrills...you didn't bother getting in touch with your wife because u know she will come running and when she does she will promise to be the good wife and stop 'nagging' you. You arrange to see a woman that has been coming on to you, you will travel to see her...your wife must be happy for that, or just go screw herself....

So...what do you think your wife thinks of you?

Bring her back down to earth. She wants her single life and she wants the security you give her. She has no respect for you, you have allowed that. Make her see that you now believe (and I hope you do) that your life is better without her...that if she wants you she had better make some effort. She knows you will always be there regardless of what she does. If she was scared of losing you she would make sure she puts in effort to keep you. Remember that. MAKE HER SCARED OF LOSING YOU. Whatever in life you have to work hard for, you treasure that thing above all else. What comes easy, goes easy. DON'T BE EASY. DON'T BE DISPENSABLE. Make HER work for the relationship and stop being a doormat. A doormat is not attractive. A doormat is for wiping feet on. A doormat gets sh*t on it from time to time. Stop it!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Concerned_Hubby said:


> I told her that if she cannot cut ties with him and we cannot seek whatever help is available to us than it must end.
> 
> I am tired of being made to feel like a bad person for this. I know that I am not perfect but I have never harmed my wife.. the worst I do is bug her when she is out with her girlfriends because she would tell me I will be home at such and such a time, that times comes, half an hour goes by, nothing. Last call at the bar, she is there. Hour after it closes she finally comes home. She doesn't understand.
> 
> ...


Closing down the bars at night is single behavior.

She can do whatever she wants ... yadda yadda. She is not married my friend. You are, but she is not. She is enjoying humiliating you and is acting like a spoiled cake eating child. I do not know what kind of love this would be.

She is a serial cheater who has told you to your face she intends to have relationships with other men. You are living in an open relationship.

This has probably been covered but you need to get checked for STDs.

You keep blaming yourself which is what she wants. She punishes you like a bad little boy when you try to have respect. She is purposely trying to hurt you. This is abuse.

Why the heck is she out at bars screwing around with other men? Why is she not spending time with you? Why is she going out without you? In a normal relationship wives have marriage friendly GNOs. What you are going through is not normal and it certainly is not healthy.

Her known behavior is unfaithful. Every part of this indicates she is screwing around. But you know what? That is not the point. What you absoultely know is that she is not behaving like a person who loves you. She is acting like a person who is enjoying hurting you.

I would not be shocked if she goes to Canada and the OM sent you some pictures of the results. Yes this sounds that bad. She is into punishing you for trying to have respect. This is a power struggle where she literally is holding you by the balls.

You know there are decent women out there who won't do this to you. Who appreciate your hard work and so on.

This is so bad and so early you really do need to cut her lose. She is toxic.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

He hasn't been back since his last post, I would hope he hasn't done the usual thing...crying, begging, and pleading for her to come home.


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## tokn (Sep 9, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> He hasn't been back since his last post, I would hope he hasn't done the usual thing...crying, begging, and pleading for her to come home.


Nor do I, but he sounded so beta, or maybe some of the suggestions just didn't appeal to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I'm late to the party... Afraid the OP has left the building. Unfortunate to say the least. 

OP, if you are still here, I offer my sincere condolences to you. No one deserves to be treated the way your wife has treated you. But, that is all the sympathy I am going to give you.

Listen closely. you need to MAN UP! 
Did you hear that? MAN UP! 

If you don't have respect for yourself, no one else will either. Read the man up threads and "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (among others). 

Kick this lame excuse for a woman to the curb if you have allowed her to return. File for divorce NOW. You don't have a marriage. Even if you choose to reconcile (and I STRONGLY recommend against it) she will have plenty of opportunity to demonstrate remorse and healing before the divorce would become final.

Please cut your loses. There are so many wonderful women out there looking for a strong man to share their life with. Trust me on this. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Does she work? Stop feuding her cheating and cut off all her access to credit and cash now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Wow! Can't believe that you haven't told her to get her cheating as* out and moved forward with dissolving this union!

She cheats, has zero respect for you, treats you like crap and yet you still stick around.

Does she actually have to screw someone in front of you to get the message across?


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## bummed77 (Apr 9, 2012)

seems like she is cheating now. take control of the situation and put yourself 1st. She has complete control, and is taking of advantage of you and her Sidekick. She has put him 1st. If you wanna be 1st then be 1st before your are left behind in last place.


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