# A message from a little less guilty girl



## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Well, I have some sort of good news. After reading all of your advice and really thinking about things, I decided to call my husband today. (We're in OK for family reunion). We talked for a long time and I was able to express a lot of the things I've been feeling. It felt so good to be honest with him...I wasn't hurtful, but I was straight. We decided that we are going to try and work on things. He is optimistic...I'm a bit of a pessimist. That being said, I am going to give it a try.

He will be out of town this week as I said before. This will give me time to sort out some of what I've been feeling. He wants us both to come up with 3 things that we want out of the relationship and also things that we are unhappy with about our relationship. I think this is a good start. We are going to try to communicate more as well to monitor and discuss how things are going.

We also discussed going out on dates and just spending time with each other. We agreed that we both haven't made much effort in our relationship. We agreed to really work at our marriage at least for a couple of months and try to change our current situation. If that doesn't work, then we may well go our separate ways.

The problem I have is that I don't know what I need from him in order to be happy. This should be easy, but I guess I've been focusing so much on what makes me unhappy, I lost touch with what my needs are. Is this crazy?

Things may or may not work out, but I wanted to thank many of you for your input. You really made me think about things...especially Draconis, MT, and Justean. You've all been great. I am going to go back and re-read some of what you suggested and hopefully utilize it to improve our situation. God bless!


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## Grendel (Aug 7, 2008)

WOW!

That is great news! Im happy for you and I hope that you are able to rediscover your own needs soon. My best advice is to look back at your happiest moments with your husband (and be honest with yourself). What feeling in that moment(s) made it the greatest? What part of you was satisfied that may not have been satisfied before then? I am by no means the guru of "being aware of your inner self", but I felt compelled to offer something. I wish you and your husband the best. I believe your one step closer to some type of resolution and I have to admit that Im a little jealous. Best wishes. 

Gren-


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm so thrilled for you 
The only thing I can add is that, being a good mother, and a good person in general, you simply have not allowed yourself the fun you deserve.

Think BIG, the sky is the limit.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

So, now you and your husband are ready to work on your marriage...that's great news! I understand what you mean about listing three things you want. That's tough when you've been lacking for things in a marriage for a long time. This would be an excellent time to read the book, "The Five Love Languages". There is a test in the back of the book that would be extremely helpful at this time. You and your husband should each take the quiz. It will tell you which things you've got to have to maintain a happy marriage. Good luck!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I have viewd your relationship like a gambler. He wants to win big at first but the more he goes in the hole (debt) the more he wants to just get back to par (even money). I think your goals should include the things you loved to do with him when the magic was still there.

Did you like to dance? Then have a night a week that he takes you out for dinner and dancing. It is that type of good time that will add the spark that was once there that made you starry eyed.

I will always be here, and I am glad that you are making the last effort. In a way you can save the marriage or know that you did everything you could to do so. It really is a win-win.

draconis


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

i am so pleased. give it a go. wishing you the best of luck and love.
get in touch n e time.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

Each of you had wonderful responses and great advice. Thanks for your good wishes! Grendel, thanks for the suggestion. I am trying to remember...it seems so long ago. I pray I can find what that thing is that used to make me so happy. 

Draconis, you always stay neutral, but are encouraging. I really like that. You are right that if I try, at least I can feel good that I've done everything I can. I feel relieved to know that we both have the option of moving on if we just can't make things work. My husband made a good point though, we both have to give 100%. I'm a bit worried (like always) that I'll have trouble holding up my end of the deal. But, I'm determined to try.

MT- You make everything seem so easy. Really, you're just the opposite of me...I make everything so hard. I want to live that way. Fear is my #1 obstacle. I am working on it though. I love the idea of thinking big. I do things for fun by the way, just not with my husband...exercise, hip-hop classes, book club. I just need to find things to do with my husband.

827Aug- I'll check out that book...thanks for the idea.

Okay, this is getting really long, but I have always had difficulty keeping my posts short. I wanted to give a little update. I came home from the reunion today and my husband and I spent some time talking and just being close to each other. It felt slightly pleasant and awkward at the same time. I am making an effort to go to him and not withdraw the way I have been lately. Strangely though, there's this part of me that just wants to run away. I guess I am trying to avoid dealing with this because it is so difficult. That's typical for me. I am trying to be strong and do the right thing. I promised I would. It's good he will be gone this week though. I am going to be so busy getting ready for back to school and having the kids on my own. However, I am going to try to take some time for myself to reflect on things. I have a tendency to worry too much or over-analyze things rather than taking action. I am going to keep pushing forward though. 

Having this support really is helping me. I'm so glad this forum exists. Bless you all!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

guiltygirl said:


> Draconis, you always stay neutral, but are encouraging. I really like that. You are right that if I try, at least I can feel good that I've done everything I can. I feel relieved to know that we both have the option of moving on if we just can't make things work. My husband made a good point though, we both have to give 100%. I'm a bit worried (like always) that I'll have trouble holding up my end of the deal. But, I'm determined to try.


I think you were always ready to try, otherwise you would not have asked the probing questions on these forums. Maybe the strangeness is from you holding back a bit. Remember when you first fell in love or that first passionate kiss? Did you lose yourself in the moment or analyze it?

draconis


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm sure I lost myself in the moment because I know I was drunk at the time (and I don't mean drunk in love -haha). I guess I've always been somewhat reserved, which is probably part of our problem. He needs me to reach out to him more. But I still have that desperate, obsessed feeling I'm fighting against. In addition, I feel sad deep down inside. Why is this? I feel like I am crazy. I say I'm going to focus on our relationship and my mind wanders to the what ifs....what if there is someone else for me, what if we can't find our way back to each other? (See, I worry too much.) 

Don't get me wrong, it was nice actually having a conversation with him. I guess we will try to build on that. He's being very sweet and I am trying to reciprocate, but still unsure of my feelings for him. What is wrong with me? I have a good looking, decent guy, and I'm not sure whether I want him or not.

Sorry for being so wishy-washy....I'll just blame it on the bi-polar thing. ???????


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

lol...No need for sorry. It is human nature to protect themselves from being hurt. Most people that have the protectionism with their emotions often have that because of something that happened in there childhood from someone close. It doesn't make it wrong but it tends to be a learned behavior. Opening yourself up is hard. I often lan every path that could happen by an action I will take. I walk fearlessly in the path I choice because I feel prepared for the worst and have accepted the fact that if that is the worst I can deal with it.

You were already prepared for divorce. So the worst is you can give it your all and still end up for something you had prepared for or you get a relationship healthier then you ever imagioned.

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Bi-polar shmolar!

You mention that you are not sure what will make you happy, but you have already given us a clue - Independence.

You need to explore this. You feel trapped. You said that in you first ever post:


> I have been feeling trapped in my relationship for some time. I don't know why.


And it is well known that one of the things that puts women off sex real fast is feeling trapped. Once a woman get married and has kids, the closeness of it all can feel claustrophobic. 

So I think you should look into whether their is a possibility of exploring independence without actually involving other men! You need to think laterally. Also, if the word independence strike a chord with you, tell your husband.

Once a woman regains her independence, the marital home becomes a cosy refuge against the outside world whenever she has had enough of playing and wants to snuggle up. Then, when she feels snuggled enough, it's time to get busy again.

Oh yeah, and you need to give yourself *permission* to have fun. You independent activities need not be profitable or worthy.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

draconis- You make a good point, although I'm not sure what happened during my childhood that would make me be so self-protective. I was always so sensitive and anxious about everything, something that is still a part of who I am today. I don't think it was a learned behavior. It did prevent me from ever being in any real relationships before my husband. Of course, I am reluctant that he might continue the same behavior which could cause me to feel the need to protect myself from possible hurt. 

I like the way you live your life...fearlessly. It's not an easy thing for me. I am very cautious. I see your point though that I have already faced the worst that could happen, so why not give it my all? Where do I find the motivation?

MT- you're right, independence is definitely one thing that I desire. I guess I think independence means me being on my own and eventually being open to dating other guys. I've fantacized about that a lot over the past few months. I may not be any happier once I had that independence though....I realize that. I have told my husband about these feelings...the desire to have independence anyway. This is one of the biggest reasons I wanted to separate...to experience independence. How can I be independent within the marriage???

Okay, you're always picking on me about having fun...I guess I'm not the most fun person on this earth. But, I'm trying to make an effort to plan things that are fun. I'm trying to face my fears and overcome my anxieties. It's an illness, really. But, I have made some changes. I will say that it's difficult for me to just let go. I hold back. Is this what you're getting at?

P.S.- I ordered the book you suggested on Amazon, but I'm not sure I'll like it. I know a lot of these issues go back to my Catholic upbringing. Strangely though, none of my siblings have these issues. I am an unusual case.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

No you are not sick. Everybody reacts to their upbringing differently. Nurture + Nature.

As for being a fun person... You are just made for fun. Look at the size of that smile in your picture. You just need to let go.

Sometimes my wife pretends I am not her husband, when we are in bed! She does not usually tell me who she is "in bed with". Sometimes she gives me a little clue! I used to want to know, but now I realise it works best for her if she keeps me in the dark.

Some men could not handle this, but for me it's a huge turn on. I always thought my wife was a bit straight-laced but when I found out she was fantasizing in this way, I was... Impressed 

The Lord wants you to enjoy yourself, it's official.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

The fact that the book is not what you would normally buy is a good sign. If you seek independence, then what you are really thirsting for is things to take you outside of your everyday circuit. 

So a book that is not your normal choice will do that.


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I am happy for you that you and your wife complement each other so well. I just love your positive outlook. (Not that you haven't expressed your honest opinion once or twice when it comes to what you think about me). Anyhow, thanks for the insight and kind words. I am so distracted by all of this, and it is not helping me to stay focused at work. I get bogged down so easily. 

I love what you said last (I get can't seem to figure out how to use the quote button....lack of common sense I guess, but I tried.) Anyway, the part "the Lord wants you to enjoy yourself, it's official." It put a smile on my face. I think I often don't think I deserve this. Have a great day!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl said:


> Strangely though, there's this part of me that just wants to run away.





guiltygirl said:


> It felt slightly pleasant and awkward at the same time.


If you try to focus on the bodily sensation you get when in this state, you might recognize something.

Don't fight it. What can seem like a "bad" sensation is just a sensation. But we misunderstand out own bodies. If you can give yourself the gift of just "falling" into sensation, it can be amazing. I wish I had your facility to feel so much.

Feeling for me is mostly a very feint thing, due to having repressed all my emotions as a kid. I am opening up slowly, using the technique I just mentioned.

For me it's mostly easy but is isn't quick. For you it might be harder, but it will probably faster.

If you "win" it will certainly make me happy


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I will try what you suggested. I have heightened senses, which can sometimes be a negative thing, because I get overstimulated at times. Other times I'm fine. I love to be hugged deeply though, as long as I'm not mad at the person. I am very in tune with my body and my inner self, so I'm not sure about that theory. Again, I appreciate your great spirit. He's gone now, so not much I can do at the moment. I'm so overwhelmed with work and kids, so I guess it doesn't really matter. Thanks!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl said:


> I am very in tune with my body and my inner self, so I'm not sure about that theory.


You misunderstood me. I am saying pay attention to the raw sensation without trying to interpret it. I'm trying to show you something new here, that everyone overlooks. I started doing this 5 years ago, and amazing things happened. You can practise this whenever you have a strong feeling. Move your attention to the part of your body where the feeling is strongest. For me it was in my mid back for a long time.

But you will not need 5 years, coz you're smart!


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I think I get what you're saying, but I get distracted easily. I will try to be more focused though...no promises. I've been trying to make our sex life good for 12 years....what makes you think I can achieve this in less than 5 years? Where did you get this idea? What makes you think I'm smart, or are you being sarcastic?


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

guiltygirl said:


> I am happy for you that you and your wife complement each other so well. I just love your positive outlook. (Not that you haven't expressed your honest opinion once or twice when it comes to what you think about me). Anyhow, thanks for the insight and kind words. I am so distracted by all of this, and it is not helping me to stay focused at work. I get bogged down so easily.
> 
> I love what you said last (I get can't seem to figure out how to use the quote button....lack of common sense I guess, but I tried.) Anyway, the part "the Lord wants you to enjoy yourself, it's official." It put a smile on my face. I think I often don't think I deserve this. Have a great day!


Either you can hit the quote button on the bottom, or in the advanced format you can copy, cut and paste then use the fourth from the right (second line) to put quotes for you. You can also use the old html way and type the word quote in [], then at the end of the quote /quote inside of [].

draconis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

guiltygirl said:


> I think I get what you're saying, but I get distracted easily. I will try to be more focused though...no promises. I've been trying to make our sex life good for 12 years....what makes you think I can achieve this in less than 5 years? Where did you get this idea? What makes you think I'm smart, or are you being sarcastic?


My technique was not about sex, it's about experiencing sensations without labelling them. However, sex produces sensations... it is also avoided because of thoughts and sensations.

Thee more you can feel, the easier it is to do this exercise. So you have an advantage over me.

How I got this idea is a long story. I can't go into it now, but in short, 5 years ago, I noticed there was a numb area in the middle of my spine, and I spent the next 5 years putting may attention on it out of interest to see what would happen. After a few months, it went from a numb feeling, to tension, to pain to pleasure and all sorts of other things. 

I meant you are clever and articulate 

Sometimes the mind can get in the way though. So when we label sensations, which we all do all the time, instead of feeling them fully, we just hear the labels and don't live life at the maximum depth.

Babies don't label sensations, they feel them fully.

Here's an example, bear in mind that I may be using slightly wrong words, because I am writing quickly.

The prospect of sex with your husband invokes certain sensations in you, which you have come to label as (among other labels), "to be avoided" let's say. So after many cycles of this, as soon as the prospect of sex comes up, you feel a sensation, together with thoughts of avoidance and or revulsion. This becomes so automatic that you simply "know" you don't like sex with him.

But when you slow it all down, and see what is happening, it's all based on hot air! Sex with your husband is actually enjoyable, _provided_, you don't have all these other thoughts and labels springing up at the same time.

I have above condensed what should take 10 pages in to 2 paragraphs so you will have to tease out the meaning by reading it and re-reading it and taxing that smart brain of yours. Sorry


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## guiltygirl (Aug 8, 2008)

I think you hit the nail on the head this time. I definitely have associated some negative feelings with certain aspects of sexual interaction. I get what your saying about the sensations, but I'm not sure if you understand how strange my body is. One day, a certain kind of touch feels pleasant and another day that same touch might seem repulsive. I go through many cycles, which makes it difficult for my husband to know what I need. What you said is very insightful and I will think about it some more. I'm not completely sure that what you say would work for me. I will admit though that my mind often gets in the way during sexual or possible sexual encounters. I know you said it's not about sex, but that's just how I see it.

Thanks for the compliment. I find your posts both fascinating and enlightening. You make me see things from a different perspective, even when I don't want to. I got the book in the mail that you suggested, but I'll admit I've only looked at the table of contents. I'm even "avoiding" the topic of sex. Interesting, huh?

I need to do a new post.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Read the book, that's an order!


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