# Fustrated WW....do I need more patience?



## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

It's been 7 mos since d-day (EA&PA, 2 different OM @ same time). I have been COMPLETELY open & honest about every detail of my EA&PA @ H request. Since, I've been a role model in being transparent, open about everything I'm feeling, showing how remorseful I am, reasurrance that I'm here for US and changing habits to ensure my H that I've not continued my bad behavior. I have not once talked with the OM since d-day and have no intentions of doing so because I WANT my Husband and our marriage to work. We have been going to MC since week 2 and it's really helped us to learn how to communicate properly and shed our defensiveness. We (or I should say "I'm") trying to work on what "failed" in our marriage (of 13yrs). I from the beginning owned up to the A as 100% responsible but
H isn't owning up to the 50/50 marriage breakdown yet, he keeps saying he did those things because of what I was doing to him, consistantly brings the issue around to show it was my fault. I understand this will take time and I'm learning to be patient, things are still progressing forward. 

What I do however really struggle with is when (every 7-10 days) H get distance, rarely speaks to me, silent on the phone, refusing my advancements, etc. Last night I learned that during these times, which can last for 3-4 days, he HATES me for what I did, he's discussed by me, that I make his skin crawl, he doesn't want me around him. Is this normal and will he possibly continue to feel this way towards me for years to come? He says Mind Movies start and he can't get stop and then can't see me, for the person I am today. I did tell him last night that I get worried when this cycle of anger & hatred is happening because the anger is towards me, and if he got rid of me then he wouldn't have to see me and get angry anymore. Basically the source of him anger is no there. Now that I put these words in writing, I can see that if I'm there or not he would still be angry for my actions. Do I give him more patience and space? I feel so lonely and fustrated when this is going on, am I wrong to feel this way? 

I am a WW who is doing EVERYTHING I should to show my H I WANT him and to reconcile our marriage. I feel he is in limbo and is struggling to "truely" reconcile. Part of the struggle is that for so many years he's always said that if I stepped out the marriage he would leave. And now he is doing the opposite of what he told himself he would do, inside turmoil. We had MC yesterday, but he choose to continue sleeping instead, does the BS also need to show that they are also commited to reconciling the marriage?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Is he seeing an individual counsellor about his feelings?

How long were you affairs going on, and how extensive was the lying and hurtful actions by you towards him? What I'm trying to understand is the extend of the Gresham that he is trying to get over. A ONS Is one thing, but WW that fault their OM, go away fo trips with the OM is something else entirely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Yes, could you please provide more details of your EA/PAs with two OMs? What happened, did your H know them, how long did it go on, etc? Did he catch you or did you come clean on your own? Do you have kids? 

I have heard 2-5 years is a normal timeframe to recover from an affair. My guess is he is wrestling with the choice he has, which is to forgive you and move on, or end the marriage.

I know I couldn't survive my spouse doing what you did, but maybe your H can. 7 months isn't really all that long. I'm at 5 months and I still think about it every day.


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## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

He has seen a IC only twice but only because our MC request this.

EA lastest 2.5 mos with co-worker (customer) 2 states away & PA lastest 2 mos with a friend of ours (which I was warned about but didn't heed the warnings because I was already in the fog from the EA) I even set up dinner dates and outings with the OM and his wife (who is my H co-worker). 

I didn't confessed, EA was found then trickle truth for 3 weeks before PA was found out, again not confessed. I've had no contact since the EA was discovered, immediately broke all contact w/ PA. I immediately cancelled extra email account and my phone is now always on the table he has access to the bill online to check who I'm calling, etc.

We have been married for 14 years and have 3 children (13, 8 & 5). We only knew each other for 2 mos when I got prenant and the we immediately were married. 3 years into our marriage we tried MC and had a bad counsellor and quit and failed to try again. So things continued as 'status-quo' never fully communicating ANYTHING properly to each other. We have walked separate paths for many years.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

7 months is not a long time...Your husband could be battling these feelings for years to come. He is more than likely trying to figure out if he really wants to stay with you or not...The mind movies are something that will continue to haunt him, they are hard to shake. It is *way* too soon to expect him to be completely stable about what has happened.

This is the price Waywards pay after the affair is exposed...it's hard as hell to patch things up and move forward...takes a lot of time. This is why most don't even really attempt it...they see the road before them and don't believe they can make the journey.

Keep doing what your doing and don't expect miracles. A full recovery can take anywhere from 2-5 years...maybe longer in the worst cases.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Well, as to the other things in your marriage, that is a different issue of course. 

But pertaining to the affairs, I think your husband will have mood swings like that for quite a while. 

I know when I was in his spot in my marriage, I would change my mind on if I loved her or wanted to see her jump in a lake every hour. 

It's a process. Nothing is easy or quick.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Sounds like your really trying to be a good soldier. 

You wrote a very long thoughtful post, and a very detailed response to a question someone asked.

Do you realize you never used the word 'love'. Not in past tense, present tense, or any tense.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Since you are a serial cheater, it may be tougher for your husband to get beyond this. Give him his space. Good luck.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> I* didn't confessed, EA was found then trickle truth for 3 weeks before PA was found out, again not confessed.* I've had no contact since the EA was discovered, immediately broke all contact w/ PA. I immediately cancelled extra email account and my phone is now always on the table he has access to the bill online to check who I'm calling, etc.
> 
> We have been married for 14 years and have 3 children (13, 8 & 5). We only knew each other for 2 mos when I got prenant and the we immediately were married. 3 years into our marriage we tried MC and had a bad counsellor and quit and failed to try again. *So things continued as 'status-quo' never fully communicating ANYTHING properly to each other.* We have walked separate paths for many years.


The first bold comment is something you need to remember. Because of the trickle truth, etc, it will take your H a really, really long time to trust you. You can be doing everything you need to do, but given your past lies he won't believe you fully for years. Be ready for that. I mean, would you believe you, given what you did? As he verifies your transparency, he will trust you a little bit more every day, but we're talking like 0.01% more every day. It takes a long time to get over such a massive betrayal.

The second bold section brings me to my next question. Why not communicate with him fully before the affairs? Your affairs were completely your choice. If you had issues with him, did you try to work on it with him first?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I can understand his anger. the trickle truth and denial compounded the hurt and distraction of trust.

He is going to need a longtime before he will be able to trust or even start to think that you are bring honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles had been reversed how do you think you would be feeling?
The fact that you had to be caught probably makes your husband feel that you would still be having sex with the OM and putting his life at risk for STD's if you had not been caught. The OM's wife works with your husband which makes it even more painful.

You label this bad behavior. This is a great deal more than bad behavior. You have disrespected and humiliated your husband in the worst possible was and destroyed his self-esteem as a man and put his health at risk for STD's. In addition, you made a farce of your wedding vows. I guarantee you that deep inside your husband feels like you made him look like a fool and everyone is laughing at him for staying with you.

Bad behavior is falling asleep at a movie with your husband. What you have done is catastrophic to your marriage and relationship. It is amazing that you are playing the victim card and just label your sexual and emotional affairs with two men at the same time as just some bad behavior on your part. It is obvious that you just don't get it.


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## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

I fell in love with my H the minute we met and have never stopped loving him, even through my affairs. Right now he can't return the ILY but a week ago he was able to, so the words are sometimes hard to say and is replaced by WANT. He know's I Love him but is more concerned with 'wanting him'. I do everything to 'show' him how much I love him instead of just saying the words. My actions are speeking louder then the words right now. 

So I did love him, I current love him more for wanting to work on 'us' and want to love him forever and always they way we were met to from the beginning.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I am sorry but when you say that you never stopped loving your husband even through your sexual and emotional affairs; it makes most people want to vomit. The statement is absolutely ludicrous. If you continue to love your husband while being engaged in two simultaneously physical and emotional affairs; then I submit to you that you have absolutely no clue as to what the concept of love is. If your husband told you I never stopped loving you while I was screwing my lover for the past two months behind your back - what would you think?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Hope you guys get this all together. Seven months is not long at all. I'll be honest it would have been a deal breaker for me personally. The fact he is willing to reconsile is encouraging for you. Two different OM. Wow. I can very much see him being able to force himslef for a while at a time and then for it to hit him hard continually. Sometimes it is a trigger thing. Two affairs is more than a double whammy.

Not to be negative but it does take time. Sometimes years and sometimes never.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Hope you guys get this all together. Seven months is not long at all. I'll be honest it would have been a deal breaker for me personally. The fact he is willing to reconsile is encouraging for you. Two different OM. Wow. I can very much see him being able to force himslef for a while at a time and then for it to him him hard continually. Sometimes it is a trigger thing. Two affairs is more than a double whammy.
> 
> Not to be negative but it does take time. Sometimes years and sometimes never.


:iagree::iagree: with every single bit of this.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Butterfly,

The other thing you need to understand, is that you have absolutely no idea just how damaging this all is to him. The only way you will come close to understanding this, is if you divorce, then later, you marry the love of your life, have a life with him for 13 years, and then find out he was cheating on you with two separate women at the same time.

It is a blindsiding blow that you can never understand unless you experience it. So while it may be "annoying" or "frustrating" to you that your H is still having a lot of trouble 7 months later, frankly, you are lucky he's even with you at all. Betraying your spouse in this fashion is the worst thing you can do, other than killing them. Nothing else comes close. If you understood this fully, you wouldn't be asking, "Hey, how much longer do I have to deal with my husband being moody about my affairs?"

So hopefully, by being here, you can learn to understand this devastation. Your H's life is over, as he knew it. The choice to stay in this marriage is his now.


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## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> Why not communicate with him fully before the affairs? Your affairs were completely your choice. If you had issues with him, did you try to work on it with him first?


Even though we are in our 30's we were still communicating like children. Only now do I see this. But in the past when important things were brought to his attention he either didn't care or it was my problem to 'fix it'. If I didn't 'fix it' the right way (his way) then I was wrong again. I didn't want to be angry with me. So I stopped talking, stopped letting him know what I needed because it made a bigger issues out of it or he didn't care. He also stopped talking to me, if he had problems he would sleep them away or sit for hours on the couch watching sports. 

He knows I take 100% responsiblity for having my affairs. I do not blame him for my actions of the affair. I'm guilt ridden everyday for what I'VE done and so wish I can go back and change my actions. I know I can't so I do EVERYTHING in my power now to show him how much I LOVE HIM and WANT him.

He's told me that he also gave up on our marriage and thought that was the best we were going to be. He's sorry for not being there when I needed him. He's said what his 50% of the marriage breakdown is and knows how to change things but is not showing me like I am showing him. Will this take 2-5yrs as well?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Him fixing what he needs to fix to make your marriage better should NOT take 2-5 years. It should take 2-5 weeks, maybe. Or it could be almost instant. 

The harder part isn't making the changes at first, it's sticking to them.

He sounds like he's been lazy in the marriage. Hope that changes for you.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> Even though we are in our 30's we were still communicating like children. Only now do I see this. But in the past when important things were brought to his attention he either didn't care or it was my problem to 'fix it'. If I didn't 'fix it' the right way (his way) then I was wrong again. I didn't want to be angry with me. So I stopped talking, stopped letting him know what I needed because it made a bigger issues out of it or he didn't care. He also stopped talking to me, if he had problems he would sleep them away or sit for hours on the couch watching sports.
> 
> He knows I take 100% responsiblity for having my affairs. I do not blame him for my actions of the affair. I'm guilt ridden everyday for what I'VE done and so wish I can go back and change my actions. I know I can't so I do EVERYTHING in my power now to show him how much I LOVE HIM and WANT him.
> 
> He's told me that he also gave up on our marriage and thought that was the best we were going to be. He's sorry for not being there when I needed him. He's said what his 50% of the marriage breakdown is and knows how to change things but is not showing me like I am showing him. Will this take 2-5yrs as well?



Butterfly,

You need to stop worrying about time lines and just remain focused on the task at hand. Frankly...it is not up to you or anyone else how long it will take your husband to fully heal...if he indeed ever does.

What does the amount of time matter anyways? Either you are in for the long hard battle or you are out...however long it takes should not be a concern.

If you lack the necessary stamina to see this to the end...then I am sorry the outcome is already written...


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

You guys sure are hard on a girl.

Okay, so she was in an EA with one guy and a PA with another guy both while married to the man she loves. She never really liked those other guys, and she has TOLD her husband. Why doesn't he LISTEN to her?

Definite lack of respect there. Must be part of the 50% of the problems in the marriage that HE caused. And what remorse has he shown her for his mistakes? Occasional harsh words, leaving the dishes undone, mixing whites with colors in the wash, those hurts add up over the weeks, until there is so much anger and resentment that a girl's only choice is to go have wild kinky sex with another guy!

But, she is, like, SOOOOOOOOO over that whole "affair thing." It's been 7 months! I think her husband needs to man-up and get over this, um, very minor poor couple of choices his loving wife, who really loves him, made. Why, just the other day, she told him she loved him, but he probably had visions of her with her mouth full of a different brand of sausage, and couldn't tell her he loved her back.

How sissy is that?

Butt erfly, you made a far earlier error of judgement. You thought you married a man who could handle you being handled by other men. You were mistaken. Seeing the strong moral character you're made of, I think you need to consider divorcing this guy and finding the men that can handle making you happy at the same time.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

ButterflyFree said:


> I fell in love with my H the minute we met and have never stopped loving him, even through my affairs.


WHAT !?!?!?!?! 

As you pointed out your actions speak louder than your words which you admit are laced with lies.

Your actions while "in love" with your husband were to...

have a long distance love affair with one man, then "cheating" on the guy your cheating with by letting a friend and co-worker of your husband (a known 'player') put his dirty junk inside of you? Then you tried to lie and trickle truth your way out of both affairs for weeks?

Love indeed.



ButterflyFree said:


> I do everything to 'show' him how much I love him
> My actions are speeking louder then the words right now.


Yes, your actions now are also clear. You are frustrated things aren't going your way, and that your husband isn't healing at your pace. You want to know what else you can do to speed things up. The inconvienience of his brooding and depression are becoming an annoyance.



ButterflyFree said:


> So I did love him, I current love him more for wanting to work on 'us' and want to love him forever and always they way we were met to from the beginning.


How things were meant to be!?!? Unbelievable.




*edit* toned it down cause I had a knee jerk meanie reaction to bullspew. Likely not productive. -lol.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

7 months is nothing.
I'm 6 months out after my WW ONS and I still look at her from time to time and think about sending her packing. The reason we're still together is because I believe that my children must take priority over my pride and working on the marriage and trying to build a secure background for the children is the most important thing. But I have the divorce papers written, signed and packaged should she 'mess up' or I decide that I can't go on with it any longer.
I really don't believe that you understand the level of destruction you've caused within that man of yours, so you need to drop the 'get over it already' ideology you have in your mind. Replace it with, 'What would I be thinking of him if he had been poking his weapon into some other skanks holster?'
Would you even still be with him?

Step back and let him heal.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You are going to have to sit down and talk to him and tell him how you feel. 
You need to keep owning your part, set up an MC appointment for both of you, go there and hash it all out. Also, at home, tell him how you feel.
I totally understand how frustrating it must be to have him shut down. he is hurt but him shutting down isn't the answer nor will it help recover. 

You both need to state how you feel and what you need. Either you work on it together, or you don't. 

A big part of the reason my own marriage broke down was because there was a breakdown in communication.

Is the silent treatment new for him? Or just since D-day? And do realize that when you didn't come forward and tell him urrrything (lol) that set you back. A lot. And the fact that he found out on his own is prob the worst way to find out ever.

I will forever be thankful, as twisted as that sounds, that my husband and I both confessed our transgressions to eachother. Havnig to find out on own would have been the worst possible way, IMO.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

PA lastest 2 mos with a friend of ours (which I was warned about but didn't heed the warnings because I was already in the fog from the EA) I even set up dinner dates and outings with the OM and his wife (who is my H co-worker..

How the hell to you end up having a PA with your husbands female coworker´s wife´s husband??

And why was you warned about him?


Please dont use the EA as an excuse. Your PA had nothing to do with that.It was probobly an atraction that has been going on for a long time


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

NotLikeYou said:


> You guys sure are hard on a girl.
> 
> Okay, so she was in an EA with one guy and a PA with another guy both while married to the man she loves. She never really liked those other guys, and she has TOLD her husband. Why doesn't he LISTEN to her?
> 
> ...


Intense sarcasm no doubt ....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The bottom line is they need to communicate or they have no marriage.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

You need as much patience as it takes. I'm a yr out and she still gets "those days" . You crushed him. Broke his heart and stole his pride. If you love him and want him you will take your medicine.


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## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> Him fixing what he needs to fix to make your marriage better should NOT take 2-5 years. It should take 2-5 weeks, maybe. Or it could be almost instant.
> 
> The harder part isn't making the changes at first, it's sticking to them.
> 
> He sounds like he's been lazy in the marriage. Hope that changes for you.


Gabriel - Thank You

PIT - Thanks for your edit. The truth does hurt. I've told tons of lies so others don't have to hurt and really all I did was hurt them more. Guilt for all my lies and pain I've caused will be with me forever. I have learned I'm a good compartmentalizer (too much is a bad thing) and thats why some of my actions and feelings don't correspond. Only now through MC am I able to show, express my true feelings and not hide behind lies. But I too have to heal and more forward everyday. I have to work, be a mom, and be the wife my H needs and loves. 

I understand lots of you don't like people like me. I'm just trying to understand more or what he is going through since he doesn't share a lot with me. My questions are typically answered by a question back to me or silence. I know it takes lot of time (years). I'm in no way trying to get him to move in my time frame. I've given him all the time he needs, I let him know everyday, I'm not going anywhere. I'm hear asking and trying to understand more so I don't cause more damage. Just wanted to know about the 50/50 marriage breakdown, and how long should it be before he begins to change his ways. Because now, even though he has admitted to faults, they are all because of me, everything circles to me, he still finds a way for it to be my fault. 

We have gone to MC every week. My H only doesn't like it when the focus is on him and things he could do to change to make our marriage better. MC too has not pushed any time frames on dealing the the affair either. His silent treatment is nothing new, anytime we or he had problems he would go quite for a few days then re-appear as nothing was wrong. 

Jonesey - It wasn't a 'long time' attraction I only met him at a dept dinner 3 weeks before it all started. The OMW told me to watch out because she knew her H got 'touch feely' when drinking. OMW also told us (including my H) that when we finally 'did it' to please let her know before hand, in a joking manner, H at the time found it funny too.

Thanks


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

The OMW must really love you right now. Geez. I take it she knows? I'm sure she's not laughing now.

May I ask how many times you had sex with the OM? You said it lasted a couple of months - I would think it would be multiple times then?

You and your H have a lot of deciding to do. If you feel he is punishing you too much for you to handle, or you feel he won't change his ways enough to make your marriage better, then just divorce him. You can't make him change. He'll only change if he wants to, and right now it doesn't seem like he does. If that's the case, then either divorce or live with it. 

Like I was when we started MC, your H wants to go right for the affair and tackle that first in the sessions. That's natural. It took us 4-5 sessions to really get into that. But if that's what he needs, you should jointly request you talk about that in your next sessions. Since he has been reluctant to go, I suspect this is why - you aren't hitting the issues he wants to hit. You want to speed up the process, then let him air it out in MC.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So you knew OM's wife before you had sex with him?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

> Just wanted to know about the 50/50 marriage breakdown, and how long should it be before he begins to change his ways. Because now, even though he has admitted to faults, they are all because of me, everything circles to me/QUOTE]
> 
> This will unfortunately have to be put aside for a long time.
> Before you two will have the time and security in your relationship to start dealing with the problems before all of this.
> ...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

As the one who had the EA I will say that looking for the BS to be at 50/50 anytime soon is asking too much. Marriage is rarely 50/50. That is the PC way to express it. There is no reward to being in an affair. It is all bad. It is not about having an affair and hoping to shock the other partner into being a better partner. Anyone who takes that approach deserves what they get. 

I think the WS needs to just take the lion share of the effort for an extended period. The relationship is not better for the affair. The affair is an additional hurdle to jump. Keep in mind that an affair means that the WS by being unfaithful is pretty much at 0% for their efforts. Going back on great behavior does not make up for that for a very long time. It is kinda like the abusive husband who beats his wife and then brings her flowers. We would not blame the wife for being 50% of the problem. To many men having their wives be unfaithful with other men is like being raped.

You also mention you are not going any where. Understand that you have already left. he will never have his wife back again. Ever. That marriage is gone. That faithful wife is gone.
You are asking him to br 50/50 with a wife who betrayed him with two other men. I am not sure why he would do that frankly.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Ok, your trying. People make mistakes, some bigger than others. There's always a way back if your brave enough and strong enough to keep fighting ahead.

IMHO, It's a good sign that you were contrite and the thermo nuclear reality check didnt scare you off or cause you to get defensive or retaliate. 

As an admitted liar and cheater, your time here (TAM) could be rough and hard to swallow at times, but Im sure it will be worthwhile and productive if you tough it out and stay true.

Keep posting and we will try to help with whatever advice or experience we can. But, expect to get called out if you bring any bullsh*t to the party. Your in a place stock full of professional bullsh*t sniffer outters. lol.


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## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

Nobody is laughing now....everyone knows, most of his co-workers too. It was 5 times, typically on nights our spouses worked. We have opposite shifts.

My H talked about the OMW a lot before I met her and her H. It came to light because my H was going through phone records after finding the EA, etc. My H and her set us down at the same time and asked what was going on. I told the truth and the OM lied to his wife about the affair.

I have no issues answering questions just here to get insight as too what my BS is going through.

Just rec'd a PM that was awful...is that normal too?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Who sent you a PM? That is not acceptable


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> Nobody is laughing now....everyone knows, most of his co-workers too. It was 5 times, typically on nights our spouses worked. We have opposite shifts.
> 
> My H talked about the OMW a lot before I met her and her H. It came to light because my H was going through phone records after finding the EA, etc. My H and her set us down at the same time and asked what was going on. I told the truth and the OM lied to his wife about the affair.
> 
> ...


I have received some idiotic PMs. What you do is hide / block that person. So you do not see their posts. You should also report the post if it was offensive.

Your husband is hurting very badly. He is grieving as to him he has lost his wife. He has been humiliated. If other people know about this he feels humiliated in their eyes. Less of a man. He will never be the same. He will have to choose to live in a new marriage with you or not. If their are children he will be very conflicted.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm about a month out from being caught in my EA, and I fear what Butterfly is going through. But so far, it has been the complete opposite of what she has posted. I expected everything she has posted, and have received almost none of it. That is why I'm having a hard time. Numb-badger posted what I fear, a delayed kick to the curb. But I would not blame her for doing so.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

I cheated 14 years ago. Took my wife years to forgive and even longer to move on. There were times I wanted to pack it in and just bail on the marriage (we didn't have kids at the time of the A).

One thing that kept me going on and not giving up, my wife had given me a 2nd chance and I wasn't gonna blow it no matter how long or how hard it was gonna be. The only thing that would break it if there was abuse or she cheated then I could walk away. But she has never cheated and she has never been abusive so I stay and try to make it up to her.

BTW, you will almost never get the same man you had before. Get used to it. If you're looking for a magic number where your husband will magically wake up one day and be the husband you had before the affair, you're in for a BIG disappointment. Not saying it can't happen but it rarely happens.

Get ready for the long haul or get out if you're already tired of dealing with his attitude.

Also, they never forget and you'll get the cold shoulder and the occasional, "Well I didn't sleep with someone else!" from time to time.

My wife was so mad at me the other day and brought up the OW name, that I hadn't heard in over 8 years, and all the kids were asking who's that. She apologized later and realized it was a mistake but it does come up from time to time.

14 years and counting to when she will completely forget.


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> I have no issues answering questions just here to get insight as too *what my BS is going through*.



Here is what your husband is probably going through:

1. He is questioning his sanity.
2. He is wondering if it is even possible to recover.
3. He is seeing you in his minds eye in every porn-star position with the OM.
4. He is wondering if he stacks up sexually against the OM.
5. He is weighing out the pros and cons of beating the crap out of the OM.
6. He is questioning his manhood.
7. He is wondering if you guys had sex in his bed.
8. He is wondering if he saw you in that outfit your wearing.
9. Is is worried sick about the possibility of divorce and subsequently losing the kids. 
10. He thinks people think less of him.
11. He is wondering what..if any of this has had negative impact on the children.
12. He is wondering if you had sex in his car.
13. He is ashamed.
14. He is trying to come to grips with the gaping hole left in his gut.
15. He is trying to riddle his way through all the deception.
16. He is having trouble sleeping and eating.
17. He is wondering why he still loves you.
18. He feels like he is suffocating.
19. He hates the fact that the perfume you ware was enjoyed by the OM.
20. He feels lost, hurt, angry, compassionate, confused, forgiving, unforgiving, and selfish all at the same time.
21. He is wonder "WHY!"
22. He knows he will never have that answer.


And the list goes on and on....


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Here is what your husband is probably going through:
> 
> 1. He is questioning his sanity.
> 2. He is wondering if it is even possible to recover.
> ...


He is also wondering when it will happen again..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

My goodness, this is all true. And also why the odds are stacked very heavily against you. But it's not impossible to recover.

5 times is quite a few. You kept going back, letting him inside a place he didn't belong. You did this because you WANTED to do it. No other reason. 

Did you use protection any/all of the times? Most PAs don't. This is a very important detail.

Also, what details did you share with your H?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> We have gone to MC every week. My H only doesn't like it when the focus is on him and things he could do to change to make our marriage better. MC too has not pushed any time frames on dealing the the affair either. His silent treatment is nothing new, anytime we or he had problems he would go quite for a few days then re-appear as nothing was wrong.


Are you also doing IC? Also there are some books people can probably recommend for a WW to read (but I dont know the titles).


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Here is what your husband is probably going through:
> 
> 1. He is questioning his sanity.
> 2. He is wondering if it is even possible to recover.
> ...


Yes indeed. Well put.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Forgiveness is awsome.

Forgiveness takes the responsiblity of the betrayed spouse too carry the beardon.

My wifes affairs will not define who I am , and her past actions will not dictate who I become. But I know the value of forgiveness and that has nothing to do with people who betray me.

Her infidelity is all hers and I will not hang this albatros around my neck. I will however acknowledge my part of the marriage problems.

Fogiving is not about you and the crap you did to your H , but it is about what your H needs to do for him self....


No matter how hard you try you can not tell him to "get over it". He has his cross to bear. You have your cross to bear. 

Individually speeaking the both of you can get over it for the simple reason that no matter what the problematic marrige the both of you are in, there has to be a prize..... You have an eye on the prize and your H does not b/c you broke him. Its up to H to unbreak himself. In our personal beliefs we need God to do this.

The **** storm you brought can be fixed with time.

But with that you can also heal him with a submission that will give him a ego boost of biblicial proportion.

Sorry for the rant... point is it is up to him to see what you have to offer for the rest of your lives. It is him that can let this define were the rest of his life takes him...and there is not a damb thing you can do to change his mind. 

Again another consequence the both of you will need to deal with. Patience is a virtue, an individual charicter with in our selfs, not defined by any one else.



But is some small chance that his mind movies are controled and he understand that your adultery has nothing to do with him and it is your marriage that is at focuse....well then there is work to be had.

Your cheating was your choice, it was you that felt good, it was your actions and choices that you made that you have to live with. Now he has to except the realaity that he can fogive or not , and you can except the reality that this is a life changing event that no longer has *just * you in it!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Any update, or answers, Butterfly?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I can understand that remorse being a powerful factor in the aftermath of an affair but while it is essential for reconciliation to take place, it should not be the sole factor for it. What do I mean? Simply put, if you had not had the affair, would you still want to be married to your husband? 

It sometimes seems that the sole reason why SOME unfaithful spouses, especially wives, want to reconciliate is that subconsciously they do not want to become the 'bad guy' who ended the marriage because of his/her affair. Not a valid reason, especially if the pre-affair issues were serious enough where the unfaithful spouse was considering divorce.

Maybe you need to seriously reflect on why you truly want to be married to your husband.


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## knightblaster (Oct 15, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> I have no issues answering questions just here to get insight as too what my BS is going through.


Well, what you have described is very normal behavior under the circumstances. When my ex-w cheated, I felt the way you have described your H (feeling sick, disgusted, repulsed, mental movies, etc., etc.) for months and months and months. It really only ended when we separated about a year later, because it wasn't in my face any longer, and we also decided that we were done trying to fix the marriage.

Marriages can recover from this, but it is unrealistic to expect the BS to be moving away from these kinds of feelings so quickly in the context of the fact pattern you have described. Before you can realistically get to the "working on the 50/50" part of things, the EA/PA need to be dealt with to a significant degree. I can tell you that at this point it's likely that he simply does not know whether he wants to continue with you or not -- he probably goes back and forth. And that could end up either way, regardless of MC (we were in MC, too). I think you need more time, to be honest.


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## onthefence16 (Aug 21, 2011)

I am the BS (betrayed spouce) my H had the affair. It lasted 10 months to my knowledge. We had problems prior to the affair, which in actuallity were of his doing. Porn addicted, hidding money, emotionally distant, lies, deciet...and I kept holding on hoping for him to change. He then went into a full blown affair....I also got trickel truth....I work out of state so it makes it all the harder on my end. Some days I want him and others I can only see the mind movies, pain, devistation, the hurtful things he told me during his affair and the list goes on...50/50 is what you think but really is that the truth???? Did your husband put up with lies and deciet prior to the affair??? It is very hard to go through being the betrayed...very hard. Right now my only saving grace is that I work out of town and don't have to see his face every day. I am going home in approximately a month for a week or two and don't know how I am going to handle it.....He will want sex and I don't know if I will or not...My H also is doing the actions thing going to church (not regularly), to IC (not regularly), calling me....he doesn't send me cards (real ones not over the net), nor have I recieved flowers which would help, because then I would know that he is thinking of me. Instead I tell him like I had to do in the past that these things matter, I asked him if he on his own has looked up about infidelity, and I get well no you send me enough stuff to read for the next thousand years...well does this sound like a man who is truly remorseful??? He still curses at me when he gets mad, he wanted his wedding ring back that I told him to take off when he was being so cruel to me....and that INFURIATED ME wanting the ring back...because the ring didn't stop him nor her from the affair, he wore it when he had his hands all over her private parts....he threatened to hang up on me when I told him this....does this sound like remorse....you see butterfly the devistation and damage is great....your husband feels betrayed and can't help himself....the mind movies are HORRIBLE.....You can either stay and be patient or go....you will have to live with the fact that you tore your husbands heart in two...and he will have to live with the fact that you did it.....both of you will in time heal I am sure...as in time I will...but will you do it together,as I wonder if I can bear it or not, that is the question? Stop being so dam selfish and get over yourself....let your husband have his feelings and deal with it...you are the one who broke your marriage vows...you are the one who has caused your husbands pain and grief...and you are the one who has to now deal with that fact or run like a dog with your tail between your legs and look for some other sucker to put up with your selfishness.....


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## Geoffrey Marsh (Aug 11, 2011)

morituri said:


> I can understand that remorse being a powerful factor in the aftermath of an affair but while it is essential for reconciliation to take place, it should not be the sole factor for it. *What do I mean? Simply put, if you had not had the affair, would you still want to be married to your husband? *
> 
> It sometimes seems that the sole reason why SOME unfaithful spouses, especially wives, want to reconciliate is that subconsciously they do not want to become the 'bad guy' who ended the marriage because of his/her affair. Not a valid reason, especially if the pre-affair issues were serious enough where the unfaithful spouse was considering divorce.
> 
> Maybe you need to seriously reflect on why you truly want to be married to your husband.



This is a very great point! I think this gets overlooked quite a bit.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Butterfly

You seem to be making a big deal that you are still there for your H., still in the mge

Let me tell you the real truth------Your still there cuz your scared shi*less, of being dumped, and put out, as in D.

If your H. leaves you---you now would become a single , divorced mother of what is it, three kids---with the label of adulteress

That terrifies you, so of course you will do everything you can to stay in your mge.

If you are D.---you won't work one, you will probably work 2 jobs, if you can even find the extra one, just to hal-way make ends meet----you will still have to take care of the kids, and you will have to pay for EVERYTHING you do, and that happens, in your life---BY YOURSELF

Going a little further---I don't really know how good or bad your H., was/is, or how good/bad your mge. really was---but I promise you, that in your 30's there arn't too many guys out there w/out baggage----You arn't looking at a real good situation for finding a really good true man for a future partner, and if you are in a small population center, you arn't looking at finding much at all

For those reasons, and no other, you will do everything you can to keep your mge----so the question becomes WHY, are YOU sticking around

Please do not tell us how you loved/love your H---One who loves another does not commit him to a lifetime of visions, with other men inside the woman he loved, and took sacred vows with---you know those words you spoke with deep conviction on your wedding day---saying you would stick with your H, NO MATTER WHAT----remember those words?????

You love one person, that is yourself----

If for no other reason than what you have done to your own flesh and blood children, you need to suffer the consequences of your selfish action---for they are gonna suffer those consequences FOREVER-----

I suggest you back off, give your H. the space he needs, for needs space, stop your selfish blame-shifting about how terrible your mge., was----and really do some heavy lifting, to make it up to your H., and kids, for the nuclear winter you have reigned down on them

It takes 2 to 5 yrs. for your H., to reasonably get to a halfway decent place, he will never be carefree, have peace of mind, or trust again---these are your legacies to him, so you could have a little cheap sex, on the side, even while being warned you were walking into a minefield

You have no idea how bad your life will be if your H., decides to end his Mge. with you


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Hi Butterfly,

I'm at the same point you're at as well, and I also was the one who had the EA/PA, it's a horrible place to be, but yet you're husband is suffering the worst pain ever, it takes a while for us to figure it out, it's taken me 7 months to realize the devestation this has caused our marriage. I can understand the anger your husband feels, as mine was in a rage for months. You see, your husband put you on this pedestal for years, and we destroyed it just like that. 

It's a "waiting game" really, don't expect him to recover at a certain time, just watch for positive changes in the marriage, and continue to work through the issues that were present during the marriage.

Maybe one day I'll post my story.....but today I don't feel like getting slammed.

good luck


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## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm still here...had a very productive weekend, several long talks and a few activities. (Even while In-laws were in town visiting)

H was able to talk with me and express more. I really think that there is a need to express everything we feel right now, good or bad. He agreed and was able to get some of the anger & hurt out even though it was directed at me, he did mention that he feels bad when doing this but I've reassured him that it's OK since I was the one who caused all the hurt and pain. We both were able to reassure each other that we are working for our marriage and neither of us want to be anywhere else. We talked as to why we still want be married to one another, which is very powerfull to feel the connection. But I understand that my words will not be trusted and over time my actions will speak louder. 

We did talk more about respecting each other. We believe the "loss of respect" for one another is what began the breakdown of our marriage. We lost respect for one another then resentments started to grow and never got passed our issues, we kept then buried. We now know that anything felt has be talked or issues remain buried and resentments continue. 

For those who asked, my H knows "every detail", he wanted it all described in detail from the begin to end. He still questions that I stop everything so fast, why it was so easy to say bye to it all, doesn't believe it's possible, because of other person situations and how they didn't, etc. The day I was caught I immediately stopped all contact but he keeps pushing for evidence that I've continued, that I'm living a secret life on the side. He's still trying to find extra phones or mileage on my car, etc. I've been an open book, changed habits to prove that there isn't anything else hiding. I've dropped all defenses because I know I have nothing to hide. That alone...me not getting defensive has really shown him that I'm living true to my word. But know it will take time for him to see and start trusting my actions and I realize the trust will never be like it was.

Thanks for the tough questions, statements and insight. 

I know I lack patience and it's something I'll really trying to learn/fight. There is so much (negitive) of myself that I see today and truely want to change it. I no longer want to be the person I was yesterday, everyday there is something to learn and grow from that makes me a better person tomorrow.

Thanks


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> I really think that there is a need to express everything we feel right now, good or bad. He agreed and was able to get some of the anger & hurt out even though it was directed at me, he did mention that he feels bad when doing this but I've reassured him that it's OK since I was the one who caused all the hurt and pain. We both were able to reassure each other that we are working for our marriage and neither of us want to be anywhere else. We talked as to why we still want be married to one another, which is very powerfull to feel the connection.



This is VERY important imo

click the My Story link in my signature- you'll see that very thing you describe on how to talk to each other was instrumental to my recovery, it's also important to note just how fragile my confidence was during that 6 month to a year period. In some ways I think I was worse than the months prior to it, It's a weird backlash that creeps up on you. It's akin to PTSD, after the dust settles you start relive it over and over again. It's important for you to understand this and recognize that about your husband.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

ButterflyFree said:


> He still questions that I stop everything so fast, why it was so easy to say bye to it all, doesn't believe it's possible, because of other person situations and how they didn't, etc.


Affairs tend to be very addicting and thus very hard to break. Your EA/PA was a full blown affair, so your husband's doubts and puzzlement that you could simply end it cold turkey with no emotional repercussions for yourself is very understandable. The only thing that could possibly make any sense would be if your affair was more to comfort the OM than to comfort yourself. Is this the case?


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## SeekingSerenity (Jul 29, 2011)

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> 7 months is not a long time...Your husband could be battling these feelings for years to come. He is more than likely trying to figure out if he really wants to stay with you or not...The mind movies are something that will continue to haunt him, they are hard to shake. It is *way* too soon to expect him to be completely stable about what has happened.
> 
> This is the price Waywards pay after the affair is exposed...it's hard as hell to patch things up and move forward...takes a lot of time. This is why most don't even really attempt it...they see the road before them and don't believe they can make the journey.
> 
> Keep doing what your doing and don't expect miracles. A full recovery can take anywhere from 2-5 years...maybe longer in the worst cases.


He is right, I am 3 months out from D-day and can't even comprend that it will take 2-5 years or long to recover, if anything pisses me off that I have to even try to go through all that to get back a marriage that was broken because of an affair,.... it sucks!


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