# Becoming room-mates



## aine

I have posted many things re my marriage, my husband's alcoholism, etc. I was told here to give up and leave him, etc. but things were getting better. 

He joined AA, it has helped a lot as he is trying hard on his sobriety. However, he has fallen off the wagon more recently, but got on it again. I tend to live for me, whereas in the past I would really try to include him, organize things for us to do together, weekends away etc. I told him he should be doing the same thing, it feels like I do it all and he just joins me. I feel like I put in the effort and he thinks working hard and earning the bacon so to speak is enough. I also earn bacon btw.

We had a fight at the weekend about him going out with friends where alcohol was involved - my bad but it causes major triggers for me. he acknowledged that. He didn't do anything but my trust level is very weak.
We said a lot of hurtful things to one another, I wish I had a record of it but one thing he brought up is that we are more like brother and sister. I show him no affection nor give him appreciation. That took me a back. He said he is struggling with his new company and feeling down, his libido is affected and to him it appears as if I don't give a damn. I am so jaded by all of this and although I think I have got past my resentment, part of me thinks 'well now you know what it feels like to be abandoned and neglected.' My response is not the response of a wife who really loves her husband. I told him it is hard to appreciate someone who you do not trust.

I feel we are emotionally disengaged and because I have sort of withdrawn, find sex boring, am not really affectionate, he is buried in work, I also bury myself in work, he likes to watch football, I don't, etc. In the past I would normally try and join him, and be there, now I just want to please myself and am reluctant to bother. I go to bed when I want, eat separately, do things alone. Now I plan my evening, sometimes how to avoid him (I cannot believe I said that).
In the past, I would always consider him now I don't. I feel I have spent the last few years, running after him, begging him to see the state of our marriage, looking for his attention, pleading for something (maybe not very articulately) and he thought I was making a mountain out of a molehill. I still invite him a movie, etc but he seems disengaged and I feel myself surrendering, I don't want to do this anymore. We have been in this place before many years ago and I bent over backward to get us on track, this time I want to see what he will do if anything. I don't know what I am asking, it is good to write this all down. I feel that if he wants me, then he will fight for me, if he doesn't then enough said.

Has anyone in long-term marriages hit a wall and what did you do? For me (I cannot speak for him) but for me it's as if there is no spark left and I do not have the tools nor the motivation to do anything about it, to be honest. We sleep in the same huge bed, him on one side, me on the other, in silence. I hate feeling like this, I do not want to lose my marriage but I don't know how to change this or if I should.


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## Emerging Buddhist

I couldn't do roommates... I was active in my effort to change that until it was clear the effort from another would never come.

Two people who truly want to be together for the right reasons will live those reasons... logistics was not the right blanket to keep me warm at night.

If you do not know if you should change this, then perhaps you have become to accustom to suffering the cold nights expecting a blanket that may never arrive.


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## Fozzy

Sounds like you're full-throttle into your 180. If you perceived that he was serious about fixing things between you, would you be open to it?


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## cc48kel

At least you share the same huge bed!!! Spouse is so wiggly at night that he sleeps on one of our couches or in the spare bedroom. Keep communicating with him as well as planning activities on the weekends. This is good! And also living/planning activities for yourself is good. Do you think if you do more for yourself, he would notice? I have explain to other people that we have a brother/sister type relationship as well. It is sad, lonely, etc.. but it is what it is. Until I say enough is enough and leave. But then again it would be so much easier for him to say 'I want a REAL marriage' and fight for us.


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## coquille

My husband and I lived as room-mates for four years. I checked out of the relationship after I lost all hope that he will take care of his anger management and other issues. He refused to see a therapist for his issues; he even denied he had any. We still shared one huge bed. After sleeping on the same side without moving for four years, I developed a wrinkle on one cheek but not on the other. Five years later, my wrinkle is still here and most probably will always be. It's a reminder of the last agonizing years of my marriage. 

To answer your question: we became distant and got ourselves busy with work separately. Each of us kept doing the necessary work to keep the house running, but I was very lonely. We ended up separating and then divorced. Neither of us wanted to cheat. I didn't even cry when we separated. I was so relieved as it was a long overdue separation.


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## aine

Fozzy said:


> Sounds like you're full-throttle into your 180. If you perceived that he was serious about fixing things between you, would you be open to it?


I know I am part of the problem. I vacillate between really wanting to quit and really wanting it to work out. Years ago I wanted it to work out desperately, but that raw desperation is no longer there, now I am no longer scared. I am not willing to settle for me doing all the work. Maybe there is some residual resentment, in fact I think there is.

We slide then I start analyzing where we are. Then we go out, have a great time and the button is reset, till we slide again. It is hard to explain. I just know my heart is not hurting the way it used to with all the neglect.


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## Fozzy

aine said:


> I know I am part of the problem. I vacillate between really wanting to quit and really wanting it to work out. Years ago I wanted it to work out desperately, but that raw desperation is no longer there, now I am no longer scared. I am not willing to settle for me doing all the work. Maybe there is some residual resentment, in fact I think there is.
> 
> We slide then I start analyzing where we are. Then we go out, have a great time and the button is reset, till we slide again. It is hard to explain. I just know my heart is not hurting the way it used to with all the neglect.


I understand exactly where you're at.


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## SentHereForAReason

This paragraph is the one that interests me;

"He joined AA, it has helped a lot as he is trying hard on his sobriety. However, he has fallen off the wagon more recently, but got on it again. I tend to live for me, whereas in the past I would really try to include him, organize things for us to do together, weekends away etc. I told him he should be doing the same thing, it feels like I do it all and he just joins me. I feel like I put in the effort and he thinks working hard and earning the bacon so to speak is enough. I also earn bacon btw."

Were the issues you are having besides the fight, now, more or less after he fell off the wagon or were things not great before he fell of the wagon?


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## aine

stillfightingforus said:


> This paragraph is the one that interests me;
> 
> "He joined AA, it has helped a lot as he is trying hard on his sobriety. However, he has fallen off the wagon more recently, but got on it again. I tend to live for me, whereas in the past I would really try to include him, organize things for us to do together, weekends away etc. I told him he should be doing the same thing, it feels like I do it all and he just joins me. I feel like I put in the effort and he thinks working hard and earning the bacon so to speak is enough. I also earn bacon btw."
> 
> Were the issues you are having besides the fight, now, more or less after he fell off the wagon or were things not great before he fell of the wagon?


Yes, it’s because of this, that started if off. I know I have no control over his drinking and neither does he if he doesn’t protect his sobriety at all costs. It was the lying, I know he would have come home and not told me, I might have smelled it, he would have denied it. I have got through so much more in the years married to him that the triggers are still there. I don’t think I’m co-dependent any more, I worked on that, have gone to counselling but I won’t stand by and pretend it doesn’t matter. So I was angry and I let it all out. He says he won’t tell me anything cause of my reaction, but that is a cop out. 

His drinking has been the source of our issues, but we have both done counselling, he is much better than before, exceedingly better, it’s just sometimes , even 1% of what I went through before makes me want to run. We can communicate better when we calm down now than before. I’m 52 and feel I’m too old for this **** sometimes! Alcoholism devastates lives
For example, today he was up before me, and when I came down stairs he was sending emails from the dining room. He opened his arms to me for a hug and kiss but then he can lie to me.


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## sunsetmist

Little or no intimacy--how sad! I have lived your life--not with an alcoholic, but with a passive-aggressive narcissist. Happily, gratefully divorced after 25 years. I had considered marriage to be a covenant before God and it took too long to actually give my EX the release he had been seeking through the behavior he exhibited.

It's hard to 'give up' after trying for so long, but it is not quitting. I decided it is actually facing reality. The years of emotional abuse have taken their toll in/on your existence. Sounds like you have given it your all.


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## 2ntnuf

Run aine.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Roommates

AKA kinda friends without benefits

No way to live IMO


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## Prodigal

*Al-Anon.*


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## Prodigal

aine said:


> Alcoholism devastates lives


I call alcoholism an equal-opportunity destroyer.

Again, *AL-ANON*.

Also, if you haven't visited yet, check out Sober Recovery Forums; specifically, the subforum "Friends and Family of Alcoholics."


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## Ab10lah

This may not be in line with what many here belief, but for me, any long term marriage that has not been tainted with infidelity and there is no issue of violence is (at least) worth saving.


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## aine

Prodigal said:


> I call alcoholism an equal-opportunity destroyer.
> 
> Again, *AL-ANON*.
> 
> Also, if you haven't visited yet, check out Sober Recovery Forums; specifically, the subforum "Friends and Family of Alcoholics."



Done Alanon, nothing in my city though. Read the literature. Been on the online one. An active member of SoberRecovery


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## Openminded

I was one who encouraged you to leave him several years ago when you had found an apartment and were ready to go. I didn't think you could get beyond the cheating even if he stopped drinking. That may have been projection on my part because I was apprehensive about one day waiting for the other shoe to drop and in my case it did. It's extremely hard to trust after you've been cheated on. You tend to feel that everything was a lie -- whether that's actually true or not -- and it's difficult to rebuild when you feel your spouse is not putting the same effort into the marriage that you are. And yet you don't want to divorce either. I've been there, believe me. In my case, another round of cheating made my decision much easier than yours is. Had that not happened, I would have remained to the end in a marriage not unlike yours (minus the drinking issue). That's not a good life.


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## Shipwrecked

2 yrs ago this Sept dealt with family member who was an alcoholic. His fiance called me because of situation like yours except he had lost weekends and evenings out when he didn’t remember their arguments. She made him move to the spare bedroom. It had gotten to the point where she was afraid he was going to kill himself or someone else driving, lose his job working hungover, and they had no relationship left. He was in love with alcohol. He kept promising to quit for her, got dry for a little while and then she’d find him passed out in bed for 3 days.

We finally ambushed him with an intervention. Got a group of his best friends to write letters to him telling him what he meant to them. I hired a professional interventionist who kept everything relatively calm and on track, told us what we could expect. When he agreed to getting help she drove him directly to a rehab center 3 hrs away we had already made arrangements with, and his girlfriend, when she stopped crying, packed him a suitcase I took to rehab. 
He was there 30 days, 4 in medical to could monitor detox.They had group & private sessions, classes on how alcohol affects on brain, sunrise/sunset spiritual service on hill. Working the Big Book. Also how to live sober ‘outside’.Some times they went to local AA meetings. 
He came out sober. He’s had two relapses that lasted less than a week. He stays in contact a few people he met in rehab to give each other strength. He goes to 2 AA mtgs a week. Talking at them seems to be important too. Calls the private counselor from rehab when he thinks he might drink (can’t avoid alcohol- dining out with friends) He asked doctor for Antabuse recently because he’d gone 10 months sober and thought he could a drink just one glass of tequila but drank whole bottle. 

Tried to reconcile with fiance but his lifestyle (avoiding triggers like sports bars, college homecoming) didn’t work for her. 

Bottom line, the alcoholic can’t get sober for someone else. They have to want to do it for themselves. Been told they need to hit rock bottom. Personally, I got tired of feeling like s*** every day. 
And they can’t have a codependent who covers for them, makes excuses etc. But they do need a partner who understands how hard it really is to get sober and lives the lifestyle with them. No alcohol around them at least for awhile. (Recently went to dinner with family and lots ordered drinks - he was fine. 

AA tells you to ‘Let Go’. I can’t do it. A co-worker let go of her 22 yr old drug addicted daughter and they found her body in a roadside ditch. A very close friend found her alcoholic husband in his truck in the parking lot of his apt after she threw him out, choked on his vomit. 
I know it could happen even if you don’t let go - but there are some people I can’t let go.

Everyone has to do what is right for their situation. Even if you feel you need to get away from toxic relationship, try to get him to try 30-60 days in rehab. See if any friends and family will help stage an intervention. 
And many companies either (a) have to allow time off for rehab - under certain conditions or (b) consider alcoholism an illness and allow it. 
My family member’s insurance paid 100% too. 

Being an alcoholic is a nightmare. Living with one is worse.


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## minimalME

aine said:


> Has anyone in long-term marriages hit a wall and what did you do? For me (I cannot speak for him) but for me it's as if there is no spark left and I do not have the tools nor the motivation to do anything about it, to be honest. We sleep in the same huge bed, him on one side, me on the other, in silence. I hate feeling like this, I do not want to lose my marriage but I don't know how to change this or if I should.


I was in a sexless marriage for 20 years, and I never even thought about or considered divorce until my children were older (about year 17).

I hit my wall one morning when I tried to initiate sex, and he turned me down. Mentally, I thought to myself 'That's it. I'll never do that again.' And I never did.

During our separation, I tried 3 times to discuss what we could do to make our marriage better. Like you, during my marriage, I was always the one trying to 'fix' this broken thing.

He told me that he wanted to be accepted as he was, and that he wasn't going to promise that anything would change. That wasn't good enough, so I followed through with divorcing him.


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## msrv23

For years my husband has been neglecting my need to emotionally connect to him. It was because of his chronic negativism plus his criticism when I needed a listener and wasn’t truly caring when I wanted t owork on us that eventually I built lots of resentment. At first I didn’t know but as I think about it I realised that I felt unloved and uncared for which led me to disconnect gradually. At frist I was that girl that cried and wondered if I was being insecure or if he didn’t love me anymore. Then as years gone by, trying to give him support and focus on improving myself and gratitude and think that he is just not the expressive type but still loves me, I became more critical and bitter myself.

Eventually it stressed him because he was also worried if I’d leave. Even so I was always the one who puts on most effort. He never had enough courage to face things.
But as divorce was on the table we went to counseling, yet it didn’t work out. Then we have read some books. Now we are trying to work on things through a difficult phase.

It is true that we can only work on ourselves, and for that I have always been trying to reflect on what I can improve. Even during counseling I focused more on my own feelings. I wanted to know how to deal with my resentments which blocked my capacity to connect.
But I do believe that it takes two sides to make a marriage work. Which is why I don’t fully believe on working in ourselves only to save a marriage. Your situation confirmed my assumption, that if I do focus only on myself eventually I would shut my husband away too. This is why I still do force him to work together with me and tell him that I don’t accept a marriage where I feel alone anymore. I still tell him this until the day I stop caring about us. Hopefully we can work things out together.

What I have also realised that is we both need to do IC because if we are not alright how can our marriage be? I don’t k that he realises this but I proposed IC and let’s see how things goes.

On the other hand I also try to regain my capacity for empathy. I used to be so empathetic but as I feel alone in our marriage I allowed resenment to define who I am, which is not what I truly am.
To regain my empathy I have to remember my own values. The person I want to be.
Empathy is also helpful because I would be more compassionate and forgiving which makes my actions more sensitive.
Even so he needs to work on himself too. I can’t responsibilize for his negativity and chronic issues. Nor do I know how to.

But we also do more couple things. We go on dates and talk together. Our intimacy is low but we try to regain it slowly. I also try to focus more on gratitude even thought at times is hard. Sometimes I resent a lot and in silence and I don’t ignore it. But I try to let it pass then focus on positive again.

In the end I believe we need two sides. Your husband must try hard because he can’t expect you to imply have faith for so long. While you can empathise and do things together to regain some intimacy.


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## aine

We do couple things too but so what, I go out with friends and do the same things.

I sense that when he feels me pulling away then he leaps into action to organise a movie or dinner. If I just remained on an even keel, then he would not notice he is so absorbed with work. A marriage cannot coast, that is plain to see, it does not survive without some nourishment, attention and effort. I will be kind but I am not putting in the effort, reached the point in my life that I no longer suffer fools gladly and if I am not getting, I am not giving either. I am in no hurry to go but I am in no hurry to be the carrier of the relationship either


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## Ms. GP

I'm sorry you're going through this @aine. I don't know if I have any advice, but I can tell you my marriage went through a tough time before and when I first got sober. We never did the roommate thing, but we sure did fight a lot! MC helped us communicate better. 

I know the Alanon program does teach to focus on yourself and not the alcoholic which is helpful when they are actively drinking. But, what if they aren't? I'm curious as to how long it's been since his last slip. My first sponsor relapsed after 7 years and only for a short time and it's like she's a totally different person now. I think she will eventually get back to where she was, but it was interesting to see all the "crazy" come right back.

I'm also curious how you are at expressing your needs to him. I think most men need the dots put really close together for them! Lol. Have you ever said, "look. I need you to pick up the slack on planning stuff for us."? Spell it out really clearly what you want. Do you guys have kids?


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## jlg07

@aine, just an observation from this thread -- it sounds like you are ALREADY gone from the marriage. You just haven't put the nail in the coffin. You've said you don't consider him anymore, do virtually everything completely independent from him, and he doesn't factor into anything anymore. 
What does that tell you?


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## aine

Ms. GP said:


> I'm sorry you're going through this @aine. I don't know if I have any advice, but I can tell you my marriage went through a tough time before and when I first got sober. We never did the roommate thing, but we sure did fight a lot! MC helped us communicate better.
> 
> I know the Alanon program does teach to focus on yourself and not the alcoholic which is helpful when they are actively drinking. But, what if they aren't? I'm curious as to how long it's been since his last slip. My first sponsor relapsed after 7 years and only for a short time and it's like she's a totally different person now. I think she will eventually get back to where she was, but it was interesting to see all the "crazy" come right back.
> 
> I'm also curious how you are at expressing your needs to him. I think most men need the dots put really close together for them! Lol. Have you ever said, "look. I need you to pick up the slack on planning stuff for us."? Spell it out really clearly what you want. Do you guys have kids?


Yes, I read that alcoholism, even a dry one can still be problematic. He fell off around 7 weeks ago, one night. However, I do not police him so I would not know if he is secretly drinking, and I am not going to find out. I have to protect my own sanity. I know if I do the running then he would probably be responsive but that becomes one sided and the older I get the less **** I want. In addition he is recently having ED problems due to testosterone and he says it’s really affecting him mentally and emotionally. He tried to hide all of this from me. I have no time for dishonesty after all I’ve put up with so I was not as empathetic as I probably could have been. I still want regular sex and though it’s not his fault I’m thinking in spite of everything else at least that was something we had, but not anymore. Maybe it’s just a matter of him not wanting me or the marriage anymore so I will see what happens. Just got promoted at work and a pay rise so things are going well in that department, giving me more independence.

We have 2 college going kids who do not live at home except on holidays.


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## aine

jlg07 said:


> @aine, just an observation from this thread -- it sounds like you are ALREADY gone from the marriage. You just haven't put the nail in the coffin. You've said you don't consider him anymore, do virtually everything completely independent from him, and he doesn't factor into anything anymore.
> What does that tell you?


Maybe I did not make myself clear. I do this out of necessity, otherwise I would sit alone at home until he comes home late after, work, dinner with clients, golf, etc. As I write I see I am not a priority in his life, so I have to make my own life. It would be so much better for me if I could totally emotionally withdraw, but I grapple with this. He can pull me in so easily, with a smile, a sign of affection, etc. Then the cycle continues. 
I have come along way from before, I feel stronger, more independent, etc. So I am no longer the walk over or wreck I used to be. I am just sad to see my marriage go down the drain. However, to talk to home, he says there is no problem!
😳🤔


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## TedRabb

I have read your thread before but just found it again and now connect to your comments on my thread. 

It is easy to give advice on how others should act isn't it. But harder to make difficult decisions for ourselves. 

Can i suggest an affair to help you decide what you want to do...i believe it's called an exit affair (that's a joke Aine)


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## Red Sonja

TedRabb said:


> I have read your thread before but just found it again and now connect to your comments on my thread.
> 
> It is easy to give advice on how others should act isn't it. But harder to make difficult decisions for ourselves.
> 
> Can i suggest an affair to help you decide what you want to do...i believe it's called an exit affair (that's a joke Aine)


Aine knows (as most of us here on TAM do) the emotional devastation that an affair brings to spouses, children and extended family. She knows that would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak.

She is an honorable woman who is struggling in her marriage, not a laughing matter. Why make fun of her pain?


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## aine

TedRabb said:


> I have read your thread before but just found it again and now connect to your comments on my thread.
> 
> It is easy to give advice on how others should act isn't it. But harder to make difficult decisions for ourselves.
> 
> Can i suggest an affair to help you decide what you want to do...i believe it's called an exit affair (that's a joke Aine)


Ted, I have values. I am human and it has crossed my mind, I have had the opportunity too, but my value system wouldn’t permit. That’s where you and I are different. My first response will not be to find another man for short term pleasure or to fill the gap my husband leaves and lie about it too. 
Incidentally, you are hilarious (not) 🤪


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## 2ntnuf

aine said:


> Ted, I have values. I am human and it has crossed my mind, I have had the opportunity too, but my value system wouldn’t permit. That’s where you and I are different. My first response will not be to find another man for short term pleasure or to fill the gap my husband leaves and lie about it too.
> Incidentally, you are hilarious (not) 🤪


(((big hug)))


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## arbitrator

aine said:


> I know I am part of the problem. I vacillate between really wanting to quit and really wanting it to work out. Years ago I wanted it to work out desperately, but that raw desperation is no longer there, now I am no longer scared. I am not willing to settle for me doing all the work. Maybe there is some residual resentment, in fact I think there is.
> 
> We slide then I start analyzing where we are. Then we go out, have a great time and the button is reset, till we slide again. It is hard to explain. I just know my heart is not hurting the way it used to with all the neglect.


*Preeminently, you're wanting to, like most all troubled spouses, to go back to "point A" of the relationship when things were good and loving, where there were no or very few problems! That's only natural!

The alcoholism has thrown your marriage a severe curve ball which, if not forthrightly acted upon, could well come to jeopardize the integrity of the marriage relationship!

The onus is now on him to steer the course of marriage away from "his problem." He should know by now that he is on an exceedingly short leash!*


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## TedRabb

aine said:


> TedRabb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have read your thread before but just found it again and now connect to your comments on my thread.
> 
> It is easy to give advice on how others should act isn't it. But harder to make difficult decisions for ourselves.
> 
> Can i suggest an affair to help you decide what you want to do...i believe it's called an exit affair (that's a joke Aine)
> 
> 
> 
> Ted, I have values. I am human and it has crossed my mind, I have had the opportunity too, but my value system wouldn’t permit. That’s where you and I are different. My first response will not be to find another man for short term pleasure or to fill the gap my husband leaves and lie about it too.
> Incidentally, you are hilarious (not) 🤪
Click to expand...

Good luck getting to the point where u can be certain enough to make your choice and stick to it. Hope you don't leave it too late. Sometimes we need a little kick along down one path or the other, fate intervenes and shows us the way.


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## Oceania

TedRab now it's fates' fault why you're treating your wife so shabbily. Why don't you just grow a pair and tell her the truth. You remind me of someone. He would lie so much that when he sneezed he actually meant to cough!


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## aine

Ab10lah said:


> This may not be in line with what many here belief, but for me, any long term marriage that has not been tainted with infidelity and there is no issue of violence is (at least) worth saving.


Oh it has been tainted by infidelity. We briefly separated when I give birth to our son, I did not have a say in it, nor a say in the terms I was totally lost then, with a toddler and a new born. He cheated on me and told me about it too. 

I suspect he might have cheated since then but do not have any proof, just that gut feeling at one point but I think if there was something, its over. I may never know, if by some miracle I did find out anything along those lines, I would not be around.


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## Tex X

aine - I haven't been around here that long, so I don't know your whole story. But it sounds like you've been through a lot, and I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. The circumstances may be different, but I spent over 10 years (of a 20 year marriage) trying to make my marriage better. It didn't make a damn bit of difference because my now ex wife was unwilling, or just not capable of participating in our marriage. So it didn't really matter how much effort I put into it, she thought I wasn't doing enough and that I was the one with the problem. In the end she did me the biggest favor of my life and left me and my life is so much better now!

I'm not encouraging you to divorce, rather just impress upon you that (which you already know) that you can only control your part of the marriage, and you deserve to be truly happy! You talk about cycles and things getting better for awhile only to fall apart again. How much longer can you live like that? You deserve to be happy, and you're only 52, which in this day and age is still pretty young. Hang in there - I wish you the best!


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## turnera

aine, have the two of you read His Needs Her Needs together? That might be an important place to start on a road to closeness. Along the way, it will ask you to fill out questionnaires, to learn more about each other, to share your feelings and your resentments, and to seek solutions. It also will ask you to spend 10 to 15 hours a week together doing 'dating' stuff. What do you think?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Would it help bring a little closeness between you both that when H is doing well with his not drinking so much, you have sex with him? Showing him, in his mind, that you still care?

Or the best question, do you still care? Do you want to be his W if he does xx? Or no matter what he does, do you want to not be his W period? If not, shouldn't you go ahead and tell him?

If you do, then at some point you have to act like a loving W, dropping the hostility, when he's "on a better path" ie doing good.

That would be a great encouragement. 

Just asking the above questions to clarify your desired direction. 

I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm fairly sure you may have done all these things already. 😁


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## aine

Tex X said:


> aine - I haven't been around here that long, so I don't know your whole story. But it sounds like you've been through a lot, and I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. The circumstances may be different, but I spent over 10 years (of a 20 year marriage) trying to make my marriage better. It didn't make a damn bit of difference because my now ex wife was unwilling, or just not capable of participating in our marriage. So it didn't really matter how much effort I put into it, she thought I wasn't doing enough and that I was the one with the problem. In the end she did me the biggest favor of my life and left me and my life is so much better now!
> 
> I'm not encouraging you to divorce, rather just impress upon you that (which you already know) that you can only control your part of the marriage, and you deserve to be truly happy! You talk about cycles and things getting better for awhile only to fall apart again. How much longer can you live like that? You deserve to be happy, and you're only 52, which in this day and age is still pretty young. Hang in there - I wish you the best!


Thanks for your input Tex. I cannot see him leaving me tbh. I am comfortable where I am though, that is the problem. I am doing well at work, got my qualifications, good money too, we get on well enough, last week went to a play, he went away on business, we will go off for a drive this weekend. 

Maybe it is me, I am looking for my pound of flesh for the past, maybe I am looking for something he cannot give me. I am happier when I just focus on me and being the best person I can be. 
He missed me this week, asked did I miss him and I didn't say it but I didn't so maybe it is me? We had great sex though as we have just gone through a dry spell with his ED problems. I need to let go and enjoy what I have, as long as he doesn't start drinking again like before, I'm good.


----------



## aine

turnera said:


> aine, have the two of you read His Needs Her Needs together? That might be an important place to start on a road to closeness. Along the way, it will ask you to fill out questionnaires, to learn more about each other, to share your feelings and your resentments, and to seek solutions. It also will ask you to spend 10 to 15 hours a week together doing 'dating' stuff. What do you think?


We got the book, started but never finished due to many things. 
Right now I don't want to "work" on anything, I want to do things for me, I enjoy his company etc but I have spent years reading, searching for information, doing relationship maintenance, etc and have been generally selfless. I want to be a bit more selfish. I noted recently when I go off and do my own thing, he seems to be more attracted to me, wants to take me for coffee or dinner, etc. So I will meet him half way but I am not going to bend over backwards as I did before wanting him to "see" me. God, I was pathetic!

I know I have grown in terms of confidence, security in myself, and I take care of myself.

He pointed out to be the other day I seem more confident, I do, I know I can be complete on my own. 

I also told him he goes back to the drinking I am over it.


----------



## aine

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Would it help bring a little closeness between you both that when H is doing well with his not drinking so much, you have sex with him? Showing him, in his mind, that you still care? Ragnar, you made me chuckle at this  I don't know what it is but being menopausal I seem to have high testosterone levels whereas his are low, so I am ever ready, he is the problem, though this week we had pretty great sex, he sent me a text the next day to say so, obviously he was thinking about it at work >
> 
> Or the best question, do you still care? I do care, I love the man though sometimes I could joyfully wring his neck! Do you want to be his W if he does xx? Yes I do, but he is a stubborn man, I know I cannot change him only myself and that i what I am doing. If I am happy in myself for myself then that is all I needOr no matter what he does, do you want to not be his W period? If not, shouldn't you go ahead and tell him? No I want to be his wife. There has been a wealth of pain but things are more even keeled now. Sometimes I think we have stopped arguing because neither of us care but I know he hates to argue, he just shuts down, I am a very verbal, get it out on the table sort of person so I don't have a problem with conflict. Thrashing out issues as it were, he does. Cultural and family upbringing I believe.
> 
> If you do, then at some point you have to act like a loving W, dropping the hostility, when he's "on a better path" ie doing good. I see what you are saying, but it smacks of treating him like a little boy rather than a grown ass man. He says I don't appreciate him, I never could handle the fragile ego thing, are men really partial to 'buttering up"?
> 
> That would be a great encouragement. Noted
> 
> Just asking the above questions to clarify your desired direction.
> 
> I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm fairly sure you may have done all these things already. 😁


As I said its cyclical, this week has been good. I know starting his own business plays a huge factor in him just not having the time nor energy. I used to resent the lack of attention as I saw I was not a priority. 
His take is that he wants to build something so we can have a great retirement, to travel, go see our kids, etc. These are all very noble things for sure. However, I cannot fathom the idea of putting your SO on a shelf, while you do all these things then believe that the SO will be available? 

Having said that, he will go for a coffee or a play with me, we do not lead totally separate lives.


----------



## In Absentia

If you couldn't have sex with him on a long term basis, would you leave him, even if you get on well together? As you know, this is where I am... :smile2:


----------



## aine

​


In Absentia said:


> If you couldn't have sex with him on a long term basis, would you leave him, even if you get on well together? As you know, this is where I am... :smile2:


I really don't know the answer to that question. We did 'connect' this week and it was good, but long term it would be difficult to go without but to end a marriage, hmm not sure.


----------



## In Absentia

aine said:


> ​
> I really don't know the answer to that question. We did 'connect' this week and it was good, but long term it would be difficult to go without but to end a marriage, hmm not sure.



I couldn't... but sometimes I think that maybe I could. We do get on, although lately we have lead mostly separate lives... hence my thread about the sexless marriage... :smile2:


----------



## Luminous

aine said:


> We got the book, started but never finished due to many things.
> Right now I don't want to "work" on anything, I want to do things for me, I enjoy his company etc but I have spent years reading, searching for information, doing relationship maintenance, etc and have been generally selfless. I want to be a bit more selfish. I noted recently when I go off and do my own thing, he seems to be more attracted to me, wants to take me for coffee or dinner, etc. So I will meet him half way but I am not going to bend over backwards as I did before wanting him to "see" me. God, I was pathetic!
> 
> I know I have grown in terms of confidence, security in myself, and I take care of myself.
> 
> He pointed out to be the other day I seem more confident, I do, I know I can be complete on my own.
> 
> I also told him he goes back to the drinking I am over it.


Sounds like a good old 'tug of war'. The more you give the more he pulls away and vice versa.

Maybe if you can find that sweet spot in the middle, you can get all that you need, and both be satisfied/content.


----------



## In Absentia

I guess that, when you've been together so many years, with problems, you can't forget them in 5 minutes and always resurface. It is the way it is. Maybe you are thinking the grass is greener somewhere else and I can't blame you for this. But you can't erase your past. His drinking will always haunt you. Is this the life you want?


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## Lukedog

@aine ..... I am just now reading this thread for the first time. Your story and situation sounds exactly like mine. Husband drinks, won't admit he has a problem (I'm the one with the problem)...wouldn't ever consider going to AA or rehab...would not ever read any one of the many books suggested and do the work (I have).....etc., etc., etc. He only does something for me when it's convenient for him, or arranges for us to go somewhere when it benefits him (and there is alcohol involved). He is a huge procrastinator and buries his head in the sand over everything. He shows me little to no emotions, and does not communicate very well. He really only communicates with me about some daily business around the house or the weather. He is what I like to call....someone who rides on the shirttails of others through life. If I don't do it or make the arrangements, it would never get done. I feel an awful lot like you....I put in the effort and he just joins me. Or he will feel slighted because I made arrangements to do something without him....or he feels entitled that he should go with me.

He suffers from ED and has for MANY years. He didn't want to talk about it because it is embarrassing, and didn't want to go to the doctor because it is embarrassing. 
We are in a sexless marriage (for 18 mos. now). I got tired of him always coming to bed with a buzz and thinking or perceiving that I am "also" in the mood. That if he could just stroke it a few times and get it hard, that was enough of a turn on for me. I told him I was tired of the "drunk" sex ( and having to smell him reek of alcohol) that I wasn't going to have sex any more. I believe his ED is two-fold, partly caused by the alcoholism and he does have heart issues (heart attack patient and is currently on meds that suck out the libido). But I believe also that his heart attack was caused by his alcoholism and he is also a heavy smoker. He does not take care of his health. He continues to drink and smoke and is now suffering from long term side effects from the meds. And he won't schedule the x-rays and scans & ultrasounds that he is supposed to. Not to mention that I firmly believe he is depressed (a lot of heart patients do get depressed). But, there again, he denies being depressed. 

Our finances have suffered, repairs in our home have gone by the wayside, and our lives in general just suffer from the rut that we are in. After many attempts to discuss the issues with him and not really getting anywhere (because...denial....he doesn't have a problem), I have pretty much had it. I do things for myself. I make plans for myself and he is included only when its necessary. I don't trust my husband, I have lost a lot of respect for him, and I don't love him any more life a wife should love her husband. I feel his first love is alcohol and, well, she can have him! LOL! He has become a shell of the man I once knew and married. Thinking back, he was always pretty much this way, although before to a much lesser degree, and I really didn't recognize the red flags, He hasn't changed all that much, it's the alcohol that has changed him.

It's very lonely living this marriage. There is no communication, no emotions shared, no intimacy. We are the epitome of roommate status. It's very lonely. I have decided that enough is enough. No amount of "Love" can bring anything back for me. You can love someone, but if you cannot show that person love, appreciation, respect, trust, and if you cannot feel those things in return, there is no marriage. I plan on divorcing, I just have to get a few more ducks in my row....finances, bank accounts, vehicle, and find a place to live. We have been married 23 years. I am also 52....my husband will be 58 very soon. I can't fix him, I can only work on fixing me.


----------



## In Absentia

Lukedog said:


> @aine ..... I am just now reading this thread for the first time. Your story and situation sounds exactly like mine. Husband drinks, won't admit he has a problem (I'm the one with the problem)...wouldn't ever consider going to AA or rehab...would not ever read any one of the many books suggested and do the work (I have).....etc., etc., etc. He only does something for me when it's convenient for him, or arranges for us to go somewhere when it benefits him (and there is alcohol involved). He is a huge procrastinator and buries his head in the sand over everything. He shows me little to no emotions, and does not communicate very well. He really only communicates with me about some daily business around the house or the weather. He is what I like to call....someone who rides on the shirttails of others through life. If I don't do it or make the arrangements, it would never get done. I feel an awful lot like you....I put in the effort and he just joins me. Or he will feel slighted because I made arrangements to do something without him....or he feels entitled that he should go with me.
> 
> He suffers from ED and has for MANY years. He didn't want to talk about it because it is embarrassing, and didn't want to go to the doctor because it is embarrassing.
> We are in a sexless marriage (for 18 mos. now). I got tired of him always coming to bed with a buzz and thinking or perceiving that I am "also" in the mood. That if he could just stroke it a few times and get it hard, that was enough of a turn on for me. I told him I was tired of the "drunk" sex ( and having to smell him reek of alcohol) that I wasn't going to have sex any more. I believe his ED is two-fold, partly caused by the alcoholism and he does have heart issues (heart attack patient and is currently on meds that suck out the libido). But I believe also that his heart attack was caused by his alcoholism and he is also a heavy smoker. He does not take care of his health. He continues to drink and smoke and is now suffering from long term side effects from the meds. And he won't schedule the x-rays and scans & ultrasounds that he is supposed to. Not to mention that I firmly believe he is depressed (a lot of heart patients do get depressed). But, there again, he denies being depressed.
> 
> Our finances have suffered, repairs in our home have gone by the wayside, and our lives in general just suffer from the rut that we are in. After many attempts to discuss the issues with him and not really getting anywhere (because...denial....he doesn't have a problem), I have pretty much had it. I do things for myself. I make plans for myself and he is included only when its necessary. I don't trust my husband, I have lost a lot of respect for him, and I don't love him any more life a wife should love her husband. I feel his first love is alcohol and, well, she can have him! LOL! He has become a shell of the man I once knew and married. Thinking back, he was always pretty much this way, although before to a much lesser degree, and I really didn't recognize the red flags, He hasn't changed all that much, it's the alcohol that has changed him.
> 
> It's very lonely living this marriage. There is no communication, no emotions shared, no intimacy. We are the epitome of roommate status. It's very lonely. I have decided that enough is enough. No amount of "Love" can bring anything back for me. You can love someone, but if you cannot show that person love, appreciation, respect, trust, and if you cannot feel those things in return, there is no marriage. I plan on divorcing, I just have to get a few more ducks in my row....finances, bank accounts, vehicle, and find a place to live. We have been married 23 years. I am also 52....my husband will be 58 very soon. I can't fix him, I can only work on fixing me.



He is an alcoholic. He doesn't want to fix himself and is in denial. If he doesn't see the problem and doesn't want to fix himself and this is a priority, then I think divorce at this point is the right way to go.

But can I just say a little thing? You knew he was like that when you got together. He hasn't changed. Now YOU want to change him. You've had enough. Is that HIS fault? You should have left him ages ago.


----------



## PieceOfSky

It’s not about fault. It’s not directly about what has happened or not happened. It’s about how things currently are, how one reasonably expects them to go now and through the years ahead. If The one choice offers potential peace, contentment, pleasure and joy — and if the other is nearly certain soul-sucking drudgery waiting for unlikely change — then the challenge is to go beyond the intellectual recognition of that, and feel it in your bones, and feel that you are worth the better path.


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## BigDigg

Aine - just read this full thread and feeling really sad for you. Also feeling sorry for the other posters where this story resonates. Seems like you've been forced to endure a lot over the years and now have the added guilt to boot associated with your lack of feelings or emotion within your marriage. I always think of the analogy of a plant - when you fail to water and nurture it the plant will eventually appear to be dead. But sometimes it's not completely dead - parts may spring back to life with some care while other parts unfortunately never will. The problem is you never know what it could look like if resurrected but you know it will never be the same. 

My only advice - don't beat yourself up for how you feel. You've given it your best. You are still young enough with a long future ahead. Every day you spend in this state is a wasted day. Staying in a loveless marriage will drain and waste your soul. If you know in your heart that there's nothing left then find peace and move forward. 

Best of luck and wishing you peace...


----------



## aine

Lukedog, your H is an alcoholic, functioning though he may be.
You must go to Alanon, it will help to get some perspective no matter what you decide about your future. He is sick And so are you till you get help. I never knew this till I joined a group online and read the literature. Consider joining SoberRecovery.com
My H recognises his disease, has sought help, though he has fallen off the wagon he gets back on again. I told him I will never live through what I lived through in the past, and I won’t. He knows that. My sanity and peace is worth so much to me, and I won’t lose it again.


----------



## brooklynAnn

Lukedog said:


> @aine ..... I am just now reading this thread for the first time. Your story and situation sounds exactly like mine. Husband drinks, won't admit he has a problem (I'm the one with the problem)...wouldn't ever consider going to AA or rehab...would not ever read any one of the many books suggested and do the work (I have).....etc., etc., etc. He only does something for me when it's convenient for him, or arranges for us to go somewhere when it benefits him (and there is alcohol involved). He is a huge procrastinator and buries his head in the sand over everything. He shows me little to no emotions, and does not communicate very well. He really only communicates with me about some daily business around the house or the weather. He is what I like to call....someone who rides on the shirttails of others through life. If I don't do it or make the arrangements, it would never get done. I feel an awful lot like you....I put in the effort and he just joins me. Or he will feel slighted because I made arrangements to do something without him....or he feels entitled that he should go with me.
> 
> He suffers from ED and has for MANY years. He didn't want to talk about it because it is embarrassing, and didn't want to go to the doctor because it is embarrassing.
> We are in a sexless marriage (for 18 mos. now). I got tired of him always coming to bed with a buzz and thinking or perceiving that I am "also" in the mood. That if he could just stroke it a few times and get it hard, that was enough of a turn on for me. I told him I was tired of the "drunk" sex ( and having to smell him reek of alcohol) that I wasn't going to have sex any more. I believe his ED is two-fold, partly caused by the alcoholism and he does have heart issues (heart attack patient and is currently on meds that suck out the libido). But I believe also that his heart attack was caused by his alcoholism and he is also a heavy smoker. He does not take care of his health. He continues to drink and smoke and is now suffering from long term side effects from the meds. And he won't schedule the x-rays and scans & ultrasounds that he is supposed to. Not to mention that I firmly believe he is depressed (a lot of heart patients do get depressed). But, there again, he denies being depressed.
> 
> Our finances have suffered, repairs in our home have gone by the wayside, and our lives in general just suffer from the rut that we are in. After many attempts to discuss the issues with him and not really getting anywhere (because...denial....he doesn't have a problem), I have pretty much had it. I do things for myself. I make plans for myself and he is included only when its necessary. I don't trust my husband, I have lost a lot of respect for him, and I don't love him any more life a wife should love her husband. I feel his first love is alcohol and, well, she can have him! LOL! He has become a shell of the man I once knew and married. Thinking back, he was always pretty much this way, although before to a much lesser degree, and I really didn't recognize the red flags, He hasn't changed all that much, it's the alcohol that has changed him.
> 
> It's very lonely living this marriage. There is no communication, no emotions shared, no intimacy. We are the epitome of roommate status. It's very lonely. I have decided that enough is enough. No amount of "Love" can bring anything back for me. You can love someone, but if you cannot show that person love, appreciation, respect, trust, and if you cannot feel those things in return, there is no marriage. I plan on divorcing, I just have to get a few more ducks in my row....finances, bank accounts, vehicle, and find a place to live. We have been married 23 years. I am also 52....my husband will be 58 very soon. I can't fix him, I can only work on fixing me.


This sounds like some one I know....she does not want to leave because what will happen to him....he will most likely die. But the thing is she is dying a little bit every day. He does not take his meds...is now having dialysis done 3xs a week...but he still smokes and drink. Can barely eat anything but he needs his drinks and smokes. He can't even walk to the bathroom by himself....she has to take him...showers him...feeds him. There has been no thank yous for her. He cusses at her and calls her names when he can't have what he wants... he is so entitled that she can't do anything for herself without making sure he is taken care of. He thinks he is so smart and educated and knows everything. 

I hope you leave your husband soon. Before this becomes your life.


----------



## Lukedog

Thanks @aine. I did go to alanon for a bit. I learned detachment.....I learned that was what I was doing and had been doing. I learned that I needed to focus on me and my needs.....serenity. I do have literature at home that I keep and refer to....I do go back and read Codependent No More for a private pep talk. I am still co dependent but not as bad as before. Finances are still an issue but are getting better.


----------



## aine

Lukedog said:


> Thanks @aine. I did go to alanon for a bit. I learned detachment.....I learned that was what I was doing and had been doing. I learned that I needed to focus on me and my needs.....serenity. I do have literature at home that I keep and refer to....I do go back and read Codependent No More for a private pep talk. I am still co dependent but not as bad as before. Finances are still an issue but are getting better.


Hi Lukedog, it sounds like you have got yourself into a relatively good place. You already know you cannot change him and if he is not willing to do the work at all, or recognise his issues, then it looks like you may have no choice but to save yourself.
My RAH knows he has an issue, it took many years of stops and starts, threats, etc, none worked. It wasn't until he realised he needed to do it for himself that things began to change.


----------



## aine

sunsetmist said:


> Little or no intimacy--how sad! I have lived your life--not with an alcoholic, but with a passive-aggressive narcissist. Happily, gratefully divorced after 25 years. I had considered marriage to be a covenant before God and it took too long to actually give my EX the release he had been seeking through the behavior he exhibited.
> 
> It's hard to 'give up' after trying for so long, but it is not quitting. I decided it is actually facing reality. The years of emotional abuse have taken their toll in/on your existence. Sounds like you have given it your all.


SSMist, looking at this older thread and your response piqued my interest. Beginning to wonder if mine is also some sort of narcissist, the lack of empathy, the mouth says I love you but the actions say something else entirely, the twisting around in arguments, the lying to my face, the twisting my expression of frustration into an 'attack' on him or an 'accusation.' these are the words I hear most commonly. 
The unresolved fights, when he is cornered, the passive aggressive silent treatment. I am a fighter which is part of the problem, I am like a dog with a bone. When will i know when to just let go? is it possible to be married to an R alcoholic narcissist?


----------



## aine

Ms. GP said:


> I'm sorry you're going through this @aine. I don't know if I have any advice, but I can tell you my marriage went through a tough time before and when I first got sober. We never did the roommate thing, but we sure did fight a lot! I think that comes with the territory, reestablishing boundaries etc. I used to let a lot go for the sake of the kids, the family, stability, etc. Now no kids so I am direct and tell him exactly what I think, no more ***** footing around him, so of course it affects his sensitive ego, he has a big one.MC helped us communicate better.
> 
> I know the Alanon program does teach to focus on yourself and not the alcoholic which is helpful when they are actively drinking. But, what if they aren't? I'm curious as to how long it's been since his last slip. At this point I don't really know, I think it was a few weeks ago, which resulted in him standing me up basically, since then we have been a logger heads, for me its like the tipping point and I am not going to back down, I have reached my limit m
> My first sponsor relapsed after 7 years and only for a short time and it's like she's a totally different person now. I think she will eventually get back to where she was, but it was interesting to see all the "crazy" come right back. I hope she does, alcoholism is awful and it damages all the people around them too
> 
> I'm also curious how you are at expressing your needs to him. Yes, he is pretty obtuse because he chooses to be imo. He has no empathy and without empathy one cannot understand someone else, it really is that simple. I think most men need the dots put really close together for them! Lol. Have you ever said, "look. I need you to pick up the slack on planning stuff for us."? Oh yes i have many times and the usual responses are 'you are never available when i suggest something" that is not completely true, one could ask when I am available for example, but it must be according to his timetable, another one 'you know I am no good at organizing these things' holidays 'you know I am not good with the details and will mess it up" blah blah blah. Yet this man could run a multi million dollar company with hundreds of staff and is now setting up and running his own business. It all smacks of BS tbh Spell it out really clearly what you want. Do you guys have kids?Yes we have two wonderful young adults in college. The reason why the **** is hitting the fan now is because I have nothign to hide, or lose


----------



## aine

jlg07 said:


> @aine, just an observation from this thread -- it sounds like you are ALREADY gone from the marriage. You just haven't put the nail in the coffin. You've said you don't consider him anymore, do virtually everything completely independent from him, and he doesn't factor into anything anymore.
> What does that tell you?


It breaks my heart doing this but I would be sitting alone at home if I were to wait for him to be honest. I want a full life of joy and fulfillment, I cannot wait for someone who doesn't want to be in mine.


----------



## aine

turnera said:


> aine, have the two of you read His Needs Her Needs together? That might be an important place to start on a road to closeness. Along the way, it will ask you to fill out questionnaires, to learn more about each other, to share your feelings and your resentments, and to seek solutions. It also will ask you to spend 10 to 15 hours a week together doing 'dating' stuff. What do you think?


Turnera, 10 to 15 hours a week is not going to happen, that is around 2 hours per day. Im lucky is I spend 1-3 hours a week one on one. I know that is part of the problem, but we both work long hours, he travels for work, we rarely communicate in the day time at all, I stopped bothering. I know why all has gone to pot, it is plain as day, but I am not carrying the marriage anymore.


----------



## aine

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Would it help bring a little closeness between you both that when H is doing well with his not drinking so much, you have sex with him? Showing him, in his mind, that you still care?
> I am revisiting this thread to get more insight in the responses. Sex is off the table because of him, not me. He was having ED issues, so he says, now there is no sex at all. The last time was over 4 weeks ago, not my choice, his.
> Or the best question, do you still care? Of course I still care, but I care much much less that I did before, the heart wrenching grief has gone and I'm like 'whatever.' Do you want to be his W if he does xx? Yes, if he'd pull his finger out and be a man and say 'this is how it is' tell me to my face whether he wants me or not, yesterday we fought, he told me he loved me but his actions say that I am not a priority, I have no worth in his eyes, etc. I don't listen to his words anymore, I only look at actions, his actions say he is not going to do anything to help the marriage, help me, etc. His focus is only his work 'because everything depends on him.' blah blah blahOr no matter what he does, do you want to not be his W period? If not, shouldn't you go ahead and tell him? I have told him, if things don't change, I cannot live in a marriage like this, I just cannot do it, it appears as if he can
> 
> If you do, then at some point you have to act like a loving W, dropping the hostility, when he's "on a better path" ie doing good. I know I am hostile because I am hurt, angry and my heart is very hardened, I have tried to get through to him so many times and it just all falls on deaf ears
> 
> That would be a great encouragement. What about someone encouraging me? I am tired of being the caretaker of this marriage, what about him encouraging me, what about him stepping up to the plate and being a leader in the marriage? Why does it fall on me?
> 
> Just asking the above questions to clarify your desired direction.
> 
> I'm sorry you're going through this. I'm fairly sure you may have done all these things already. 😁


----------



## Mr.Married

Hi aine,

You always come across to me as someone who is tough, smart, and know yourself. You are pretty good proof that we as humans (even the tough,smart,knowledgeable ones)
can easily submit to emotional strings. You already have your answers, you know the way, you have the strength you need. Pull the trigger.

Picture yourself being the woman with the relationship that will give you the life you want.

Picture yourself in 2 years from now, fear is only one of those emotional strings, use those tough smarts now.....

In the past you never minded calling me out when I was wrong (I like that) ...... Now I'm calling you out ......tough, smart, your in control. Drop the hammer.


----------



## aine

Mr.Married said:


> Hi aine,
> 
> You always come across to me as someone who is tough, smart, and know yourself. You are pretty good proof that we as humans (even the tough,smart,knowledgeable ones)
> can easily submit to emotional strings. You already have your answers, you know the way, you have the strength you need. Pull the trigger.
> 
> Picture yourself being the woman with the relationship that will give you the life you want.
> 
> Picture yourself in 2 years from now, fear is only one of those emotional strings, use those tough smarts now.....
> 
> In the past you never minded calling me out when I was wrong (I like that) ...... Now I'm calling you out ......tough, smart, your in control. Drop the hammer.


Mr Married, you may be right but as I pointed out in another thread I have alot to lose financially and I will not be rash. I may have to live separately still married. It is complicated, not as cut and dried as in the West. I wish it was.


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## sunsetmist

aine said:


> Mr Married, you may be right but as I pointed out in another thread I have alot to lose financially and I will not be rash. I may have to live separately still married. It is complicated, not as cut and dried as in the West. I wish it was.


Sorry for your pain--the voids/emptiness in your life. Doesn't sound like a marriage anymore, but more of a business arrangement--for real reasons. Only you know when other needs become more significant. You know you can't change him.


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## Mr.Married

Man that money stuff can make it real tricky. Like sunsetmist says .... the balance on this is yours. There is a guy on a thread called "rubber hits the road" or something like that, trapped in hell over it
but unlike you hasn't figured out just to go on with his individual happiness. I'm going to guess you already talked to a professional about the money thing. UUUmmmpphhhh....what to do?


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## PieceOfSky

Are the laws such you can live “safely” and relatively peacefully in separate homes with separate lives, all the while still married? Or would such an arrangement lead to poor treatment by the community and/or local government? Would a loving relationship with another be “allowed”?

Are you originally from the West? Is there somewhere with fair laws that you could move to, alone or with him, that would eventually have jurisdiction to dissolve your marriage and distribute assets?


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