# Little start, much bigger issue



## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

A and J are both recently divorced and been dating for a few months. 

Both had similar marriages. Spouses that didn't communicate, didn't consider what A or J needed or how they felt, despite repeated attempts to communicate those needs and feelings.

A and J have thoroughly explored each others backgrounds and committed not to do the same things their old spouses did.

Recently while out of town, A got an old sloppy tattoo covered with a new one. A and J had discussed this several times, but no specifics were discussed. The new tattoo is 4 times the size of the old one and covers a good bit of A's chest.

J does not like the tattoo, does not like the size, and is very opposed to it. J believes that A should have allowed for input on it. J does not want to have to look at this tattoo forever. J feels that this is exactly the same disregard J received in J's previous marriage.

A offered to have the tattoo removed but also stated that they do not want to have to do that. A would prefer that J try to accept it and overlook such a minor thing. A feels that J is disregarding A's feelings just the way As old spouse did.

My bias may have shown through in the above, but I have tried to present both sides as objectively as possible. 

This is turning into a major issue. Quite possibly a deal breaker for both, but neither of them want it to become that. Both are in misery but feel they can not live with the solution the other wants.

I am hoping for some insight, some advise that will help one/either/both do what is right.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

They've been dating game for a few months. If J doesn't like it, time to change horses. 

C


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

So, is that an indication that J is in the wrong? That J should accept it or get out?

Ending is not the preferred option for either involved. Both have been taken advantage of in their marriages. Some idea of who needs to stand by their convictions and who needs to compromise would be more helpful.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

At a "dating for a couple of months" point, I don't feel you have a "right" to tell someone what they can or can't do to their body. Plus, it's already done. The reminder will always be there, in J's face (literally). So if J can't get over it, J might as well move on. 

Heck, when I had been dating my current SO for a couple of months, we hadn't told each other that we loved the other person. It was a time for learning about each other, not trying to change the other person. 

BTW... Did A have any comments after getting it? Was there a discussion after? Like "I know how you felt about it, but I needed to do it because..." 

C


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## minebeloved (Nov 7, 2013)

It doesn't look like the relationship would work out. A likes the freedom to do with his or her body as they wish, because 1)J and A aren't married so 2) J doesn't have a say on A's body unless they were married.
So with that in point. J seems controlling I would advise A to move on


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If A wants J, then A should have asked J first. If I were J, I'd very likely be finished with A. A has the right to do what A wants with A's body, but J has the right to decide that A's choice means A isn't the right person for J.


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## minebeloved (Nov 7, 2013)

anonamouse said:


> So, is that an indication that J is in the wrong? That J should accept it or get out?
> 
> Ending is not the preferred option for either involved. Both have been taken advantage of in their marriages. Some idea of who needs to stand by their convictions and who needs to compromise would be more helpful.


I agree with PBear, J and A are just starting to really get to know each other. J already is pointing out things that he doesn't like, and is getting angry that A didn't discuss it. The fact that A didn't like the old tattoo and want to cover it with a better one is A's decision. 
J seems controlling.


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

Many of A's tattoos have personal meanings. This one was because A's sister had requested that A get a tattoo with her.

A and J have deeply explored each others pasts. To the point of sharing things that were never shared with family, spouses, therapists, no one. These people are close.

There is the issue of A and J making a big production about being a team, always working toward the same goal and not being opposing forces like their previous spouses had been.

J did state that J knew J did not have direct influence on the situation, but that J felt J's opinion should have been considered. 

A had in the past said J should have input because J would really be the one looking at it.


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

Good, direct answers. More input would be appreciated.



minebeloved said:


> The fact that A didn't like the old tattoo and want to cover it with a better one is A's decision.


The old tattoo was very poor. Really very embarrassing for A.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

There is no compromise answer we can give. It's not like half the tattoo can be removed or the whole thing dulled a bit.

There are only two solutions,, both of which will disappoint one of you.

Personally, unless the tatt' is of an ex's face, I don't see any point in making a fuss about it. If it were mine I wouldn't remove it and if my SO got one I wouldn't bug her about it.

People who make mountains out of molehills swiftly end up with a whole range.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You're mad because he didn't discuss a TATOO with you?

Really, a TATOO?

You have much bigger issues if this is a make it or break it situation. He isn't a fundamentally different person because of a TATOO. Yes, it meant something to him. Most tatoos do. He went with his SISTER. How benign is that?

You throwing a fit over it shows you're not ready to accept that he has desires you don't have. 

It isn't wrong or deceptive.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

Sounds like A and J are repeating mistakes made in their old relationships.

You don't have to like everything or agree on everything the other does as long as its not cheating, abuse or anything a long those lines.

If this is a deal breaker wait until something really major happens. This is coming from a tattoo hater too.


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

Thebes said:


> Sounds like A and J are repeating mistakes made in their old relationships.


This is particularly concerning. Can you elaborate, please?


While I appreciate the directness in pointing out who is in the wrong, both A and J are more interested in resolution. "Break up" and "get over it" aren't really the kinds of help I expect at TAM.

How does one resolve the situation?


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You get over it or break up over it.

It really IS that simple.

How is there a third option?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anonamouse said:


> Both had similar marriages. Spouses that didn't communicate, didn't consider what A or J needed or how they felt, despite repeated attempts to communicate those needs and feelings.
> 
> A and J have thoroughly explored each others backgrounds and committed not to do the same things their old spouses did.


Here is where the problem lies, A & J see what each of their prospective exes’ did wrong that contributed to failure of their prospective marriages. Neither A nor J have looked at what was their own contribution to the failure of their prospective marriages. J

A & J are not married. They have only dated for a short time. If A wants some big tattoo, technically J has no say.

But if J does not like the tattoo, J can just walk with little to no explanation.

Now if A & J want to have a long term relationship, its best if they communicate and take each other’s feelings and needs into consideration before doing anything significant. Altering one’s body with a large tattoo is a significant action.



anonamouse said:


> A would prefer that J try to accept it and overlook such a minor thing. A feels that J is disregarding A's feelings just the way As old spouse did.


What I see is that both do not communicate well and both don’t consider the other’s feelings and needs. This is probably what each of them contributed to the break up their marriages as well.

Both have a lot to learn about how to have a healthy relationship. Until you do the following, forget about the argument over the darn tattoo. It’s the least of your problems if you want a healthy, happy, passionate long term relationship. 

After the do the following talk about the tattoo with your new found skills and come up with a joint agreement.

If after all that, both of you stick to your rigid side of the tattoo argument, go your separate ways. If you cannot come to a happy agreement on a tattoo, you are not ready for the trials of a long term relationship. 

Take a look at The Policy of Joint Agreement 


Read and do the work suggested in the books: “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

anonamouse said:


> A and J are both recently divorced and been dating for a few months.
> 
> *Like what has been said before, a few months is way too short of time for J to have a say so, in my opinion.*
> 
> ...


I am sorry if this sounded harsh. This is a young relationship, but it is showing big red flags and I would think with my head and not my heart right now. No one want's to make the same mistake twice.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Here are my thoughts on the particular issue, not that it will really help you:

If A and J were both keen to stay together for the long term, and generally you don't plan to break up after 10 years, so let's just say forever, then it would be fairly reasonable to expect that A would value J's input on something like a large tattoo on their chest, and want them to be involved and happy with the decision too. 

Now, this isn't actually the case. A did not seek J's input, and didn't consider it a problem if J didn't like it.

In reality, the tattoo is a symptom of a larger problem. J is probably trying to avoid seeing the writing on the chest. A does not have the same values in a committed relationship as J. This is a fundamental problem that cannot be fixed. J could choose to overlook the tattoo and continue the relationship, but the problem of being incompatible will always remain and show up again and again and someone will always have to 'give in/give up' instead of compromise in order to stay together.

As for the previous marriages and the blame being placed squarely on the shoulders of the 'other' person by both A and J, well, that just says to me that neither will admit to being wrong, ever, and believe everything that their current partner has told them because it would never occur to them that maybe A/J just refused to ever compromise or empathise with their partner because they themselves never did this. It's all too black and white.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Seems like neither of you is terribly worried about the other persons side of the situation. One of you wanted the tattoo, one of you didn't like the tattoo. Heck, the person who got the tattoo offered to have it removed. What more could the other person ask for?

If you really want to make this work, find a counsellor who can talk to both of you together.

C


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't think A and J have been going out long enough for J to have an opinion on A's tattoo.


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## Me'N'My'Girl (Jan 10, 2010)

breeze said:


> Here are my thoughts on the particular issue, not that it will really help you:
> 
> If A and J were both keen to stay together for the long term, and generally you don't plan to break up after 10 years, so let's just say forever, then it would be fairly reasonable to expect that A would value J's input on something like a large tattoo on their chest, and want them to be involved and happy with the decision too.
> 
> ...



^^ This :iagree:


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

Thank you EleGirl, that is very useful and helpful information. 

Obviously, everyone has figured out that I'm J. However, I'm the guy. 

I'm a giver. I ask for very little in a relationship and I am very happy with it that way. My SOs happiness is extremely important to me. My highest priority in my life was being a good partner. 

When I do ask for something it is because it is incredibly important to me. I communicated this with my wife over and over for 5 years, even through marriage counselling. 

My issue with my marriage was that my wife could never seem to find time for me. All I asked for was time. The more work I took on to give her free time, the more free time she devoted to her interests instead of me. She said she was very happy with our marriage and was devastated when I left despite being warned that it was coming for years. I still care for her deeply, but could no longer live in a situation where I could not be a priority even a small amount of the time.

A's happiness is very important to me. She is an amazing, caring woman. I do not want to believe that she is going to disregard my needs and feelings the way my ex did, but now I am unsure.

I know that I don't have veto power over her actions (especially regarding her body), even after marriage, but is it too much to ask that my opinion, my feelings even be considered? 

While her body if far from perfect, it was beautiful to me. To me she has permanently defaced a natural treasure. I don't know how to look at that for the rest of my life.

Beyond that this feels like a betrayal. She sent a picture by text of the sketch and immediately turned her phone off. I sent a text less than one minute later asking for a chance to discuss it, but it was too late.

Yes, her sister asked her to get a tattoo with her, but it's not like they got the same image, related images, or even in the same place. It could have been anything, any size, any where on her body. Prior to this all of As tattoos had been no larger than a silver dollar and in out of the way places.

I know I'm in the wrong. That was the answer I expected when I came here. It's just that it hurts and will always remind me of the hurt. It's hideous and will always be there, every time I see her without clothing. I don't want this to be a make or break issue, but how do I live with something I hate for so many reasons?


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

I know it can seem unlikely that with 2 divorced people, neither were at fault. I'm sure to some degree that is true. 

I did everything I could think of to fix my marriage. Went to IC, MC, read countless books, talked to my wife endlessly. She would always be in complete agreement, totally on board, but then no actual change ever occurred. She would frequently even back out of plans with no real explanation as to why. I didn't think I was asking for a lot. Trips to the grocery store, dinner out, anything that was time together. I used to be angry at her, but eventually realized I was asking her to change and she could just as easily asked me to change and stop wanting what I wanted. 

A's husband was lazy. She's showed me messages from his mother acknowledging that he was lazy, that she didn't think he would ever change and that she could clearly see the end was coming. 

A showed me messages she had sent her ex, begging for help, to be more sympathetic to her situation, to care about her feelings and showed me his lack luster responses.

She worked 2 jobs to put him through school and shortly after he graduated and got a job, he got fired for getting a porn virus on his work computer. He proceeded to play video games for the next 6 months while she continued working 2 jobs and still doing all the housework.

So yes, we may have had some fault in there, but both of us put in a huge effort.


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

PBear said:


> Heck, the person who got the tattoo offered to have it removed. What more could the other person ask for?


I would have been very content with this assuming it was not going to result in A being eternally resentful, but A quickly back tracked and said she wanted me to just accept it.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

J, move on. The resentment will eat at you forever, and yes, every time you look at her naked.

There is no reconciling this.

Just be thankful this happened before the wedding bells and not after.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

If she's into tattoos and already has a few and now added a big one, my guess is she's likely going to get more over time. 

If you can't deal with this one, you might also have trouble with what's in store in the future. 

Dating is for taking the time to get to know each other and determine if you truly are compatible. I think you're discovering that you may not be. Pay attention. Give it more time if you think this is an isolated issue, but pay attention and make sure.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

The barbaric answer: "I don't find you so attractive anymore." Just be truthful. You think it is ugly. You don't have to be horrible about it but you don't have to lie either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

I'll start with I'm biased. 8 tattoos and 6 piercings. I had a rather large one on my left shoulder blade before meeting my spouse and made it clear tattoos were a part of my life and there would be more of them. He has none at all.

He doesn't not like tattoos but he could take it or leave it. I also made it clear my body, my right to do with as I pleased.

He had the same, his body, his right to do what he pleases with it. Mind you this bars anything that may be dysfunctional such as excessive drinking, drugs or something that may be detrimental to safety or health to the extreme.

We talked this boundary out in the first few weeks of dating. Not months, not after marriage but first few weeks.

The simplicity truly is accept it or leave. Its a given that someone with tattoos most likely will get more tattoos. That should have been obvious when you met her and she should have made it obvious (as you should have made it obvious from day one you don't care for tattoos).


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

What you did isn't wrong.

It's just a bit misguided to ask a forum for a compromise solution to an event that's already passed.

She keeps the tatt' or removes it, one of you is going to be resentful until, if ever, you can put it behind you.

In light of subsequent information, you're repeating your previous relationship - letting partners exploit your good nature, then resenting it.

Either, you need to set your boundaries that you won't tolerate inconsideration,, or you need to learn that when you let people cross THAT boundary, to not be resentful when people cross it.

Those two aspects of your personality are NOT compatible. It's 'kind' of you to allow people their freedom but it's 'unkind' to resent them for their subsequent selfishness. 

Firm up your boundaries or lose the resentment. Whichever is easiest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

CantePe said:


> ...I also made it clear my body, my right to do with as I pleased...We talked this boundary out in the first few weeks of dating.


My misunderstanding came from our discussions. We had discussed her tattoos at length. She said she was done with tattoos. The only work she ever planned to get was to cover the old bad ones. 

She said she hated tattoos on the chest. The only reason she had the one she did was because 20 years ago, her ex BF was a tattoo artist and she wanted his new GF to see him working on her breasts. Childish I know, but it was 20 years ago.

I had no reason to expect something of this magnitude to show up.

And to repeat, it was never my intent to deny her right to do as she pleased, just hear my side and consider whether my opinion was important to her. Isn't there room for both? To be free to make the choice, but acknowledge that it affects someone you care about?



Flying_Dutchman said:


> In light of subsequent information, you're repeating your previous relationship - letting partners exploit your good nature, then resenting it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But what more can I do beyond making my needs and feelings known? When you communicate to someone that them ignoring your needs is tearing you apart, what more can you do? I communicated what I needed to my EX. Made it clear how I felt. Did this in front of a MC. I spent 5 years trying to communicate this need to my EX.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

*Re: Re: Little start, much bigger issue*



anonamouse said:


> My misunderstanding came from our discussions. We had discussed her tattoos at length. She said she was done with tattoos. The only work she ever planned to get was to cover the old bad ones.
> 
> She said she hated tattoos on the chest. The only reason she had the one she did was because 20 years ago, her ex BF was a tattoo artist and she wanted his new GF to see him working on her breasts. Childish I know, but it was 20 years ago.
> 
> ...


That changes my whole response then...she said one thing and did another. If she can do that with a tattoo imagine what other massive boundaries she may cross (not necessarily implying cheating but lying outright about anything or lying by ommission for example)

That kind of reasoning for a tattoo means she really shouldn't have tattoos. Tattoos are for a lifetime and should be for the person who has the tattoos not for others who see them.

If I were in your shoes that would be a deal breaker for me and I'm biased with 8 tattoos...time to move on, outright lying like that not tolerable at all. Listen to her when she tells you who she is...


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

It's not actually a lie. She did have an old sloppy tattoo covered. She did specifically say she wanted to have the tattoo on her chest covered, but every time I asked, she said she didn't know what she wanted. After the fact, she said she didn't know what she was getting until she got there. Said the artist told her it needed to be that big to cover a butterfly the size of a silver dollar. BTW the covering tattoo is an anatomical heart (life size) with wings. I don't so much object to the design itself as just it's location.

Is it normal for a covering tattoo to be over 4 times the size of the original. I know nothing about tattoos. Maybe it's one more case of me over reacting.

That old boyfriend did like 4 of her tattoos and he was terrible.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

No it is not normal for it to be 4x the size although most artists will say for detailed work the bigger the better. Life size means the size of her fist basically.

I have a chest piece (needs a cover up, lost a lot of ink, very faded). It was a bad idea to walk in not knowing what she wanted, always know what you want, where you want it and if you don't, don't do it.

Also, research the artist. I suspect his "it had to be that big" was partly commission motivated. I would have walked right back out the door and found someone else to do a cover up.

The choice of tattoo doesn't appeal to me but that's my biased tastes in art. Everyone is different.

As for lie or not, it depends on your definition of it. She said cover up not 4x the size for a cover up. It wasn't necessary to have it that big.

I also suspect she made a decision on this cover up by settling for what was offered and the old "I'm already here, might as well" (I'm speculating of course) ...you know when you do something you shouldn't because it feels like you are settling or its instant gratification rather than logically thought out?

In this situation I think discussion of the tattoo (and that is a huge leap for me to admit to) was warranted in this instance.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I really no no idea why you're taking this so hard.

It's a TATOO.

What's next? She gets a haircut and doesn't ask/seek approval from you first, she'll be in the dog house?

You are going WAY overboard interfering with someone's personal choices about their own style.




If you think this is a precursor to other non compliant behavior from her, you shouldn't be dating her.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Did she say why she shut off her phone after sending you the sketch? To me, that's a huge red flag... The tattoo is just a symptom of her communication issues. 

Again, though... We're back to this time being an interview for a long term position. Not a time to change her. 

C


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

Phone thing was artist suggestion. Was getting ready to start and said a ring or text alert can cause you to jump without thinking. My contention was that she knew I was right there waiting for the pic, she couldn't have waited 1 additional minute for a response? To see what I thought of it? What made it seem like such a slight was that she had even said I should have input on it because I was the one that would be looking at it.

I guess I'm upset because it's so unappealing and in such an "in your face" location. I didn't have a problem with the blurry little butterfly that was there. It's a personal taste. Why are you attracted to whatever sex you are attracted to and not house plants?

To me you just don't paint graffiti on a beautiful building, no matter what condition that building is in.

I'm fully prepared to love a woman if she has to have a mastectomy, goes bald, gets fat, gets saggy. Those are natural and/or uncontrollable things. This is just something I find appalling. 

It may be petty, but I'm willing to give up being petty if I just knew how.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

anonamouse said:


> It may be petty, but I'm willing to give up being petty if I just knew how.


I would suggest you don't "give up". Let this be the end to a relationship you know you should end. Everyone keeps missing the point of the fact that it's not about a tattoo, it's about them being *incompatible*. 

To those who think it's "just a tattoo", then would that mean you would be fine with your partner getting a big tattoo all over their face without any input from you? After all, it's just a tattoo. I know this isn't on her face, but it doesn't matter where it is, it was the fact that she didn't care about whether someone she's supposed to want to be with would even like it (in reality, because her previous words mean nothing when her actions belie them).

You both have a history of choosing the wrong partners, and yes, that is on you. You are repeating history. Stop running on automatic and start taking responsibility for your life.


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## anonamouse (Nov 28, 2014)

The truth is, she means the world to me. I don't care that sometimes she shows up to see me with her hair bunched up in a clip on top of her head, or that sometimes she has vomit on her clothes from the special needs pre-schoolers she takes care of. I loved that she came to see me one night I had to work late in her ratty old night gown.

We aren't perfect people. We are both a little broken. Our broken pieces fit beautifully together though. 

Maybe she isn't the right person for me or maybe I'm not right for her. I just don't want this to be the point at which we make that call. 

If she had been in the wrong, I would have taken the stand and asked that she get rid of it. I won't be run over, but sometimes it's hard to see whether you are standing up for yourself or being selfish.

I don't want this thing to bother me so much. I just want to find a way to let go of it. To see if other issues crop up or if this was just a series of mistakes and misunderstandings that got out of control.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

anonamouse said:


> I don't want this thing to bother me so much. I just want to find a way to let go of it. To see if other issues crop up or if this was just a series of mistakes and misunderstandings that got out of control.


I understand. We fall in love with someone and want them to be the one we spend the rest of our lives with. It doesn't matter what their faults are, we can overlook them because we love them.

Then we grow up and realise it's not actually all about 'love'. It's about making the right choice of partner from the start. It's about paying attention to your gut.

This bothers you so much because you know, but won't admit, what it means and you don't want it to be true, because you're in love. You want to stay together despite being incompatible because you're unable to let your head make decisions your heart is unwilling to make.

I don't mean to be hard on you, but these are the same mistakes you made the first time. Marriage is supposed to be forever, yes, but that's assuming that you don't make a poor choice to begin with. It's always going to be beautiful and shiny at the start. 

It doesn't really matter what I say here though, because you aren't ready to actually think about it. You remind me of me when I was in my early 20s. It took me 5 years to finally figure out that love does not equal compatible. You haven't made that leap yet, you may never.

So continue with your struggle, nothing anyone says here will help you suddenly feel okay with everything, unless someone offers you a lobotomy (in which case I strongly advise against it). In a few years the rest of the evidence will pile up enough that you can't hide from it anymore and that bell of doom will toll.

Maybe one day in future you'll learn from these relationships and start to see the writing on the wall from day one. It'll save you a lot of time if you do, but these failed relationships will not be in vain because you will have learned valuable lessons from them.

Good luck OP. Enjoy the time you have left with your GF while things are good and take notice of what she is teaching you when times are bad.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Let me give you another perspective that help.

A lot of society still views tattoos and piercings extremely or moderately taboo. We can all agree with that. Some view it like you do, a degradation of the natural beauty of the human body.

Its not for everyone, truly isn't. I can respect others views on it because its not for everyone.

It is India ink under the skin. Colours, art in a living breathing canvas. A living piece of art, when done well, is a very beautiful work of art.

A lot of the work force has this bias that tattooed people are lazy, criminal degenerates. My tattoos don't affect my ability to perform at work (or find work for that matter, including in the health care system). I'm not saying you view it as the work force does here. Just another point of evidence of societal views reflecting in another environment of society that isn't always true.

There are lawyers, doctors, nurses, firefighters, officers, support workers, social workers, labour men and women who are tattooed and you (general you) may not even know it unless you run into them in civies and their tatts are showing. Love the shocked look people get when that happens with me, then it opens an ice breaker conversation...well did it hurt, what's it like getting one, what does it mean to you...what's the symbolic meaning, etc.

People don't always have to appreciate the same things as each other. I think you may be more upset with how it was handled and the lack of communication involved and not so much the tattoo itself.

You already knew the act of getting a cover up would happen you just didn't expect the way it was done. Being upset and hurt over the lack of communication involved has worth and value and you need to make that the centre of your sit down with her rather than the tattoo itself which has become a symbol with the lack of communication for you.

Set boundaries for the way you two communicate and how you do it. Set ground rules, maybe she can invite you to go to one of her cover ups with her too. Seeing the process (which my husband did, he came with me for one of mine) can sometimes help a person understand the desire for tattoos and even why some of us do it. Have you ever asked her or she ever offered the reasons for her tattoos, why she has them and what they and the process means for her? What's the emotional connection to tattooing for her? What need/desire does it fulfil for her?

For me, it is also symbolic of my beating cutting/self harming. There is an emotional connection to my tattoos and a life event connected to each one that they represent or a moral value I have.

If you haven't already, ask her about each of her tattoos.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

anonamouse said:


> This is particularly concerning. Can you elaborate, please?
> 
> 
> While I appreciate the directness in pointing out who is in the wrong, both A and J are more interested in resolution. "Break up" and "get over it" aren't really the kinds of help I expect at TAM.
> ...


You need to sit down and talk about it for one thing. Try to understand the other ones position. You are just dating and in a dating situation do you really need to other ones permission for everything. 

Another thing is if you sweat the small things how are you going to deal with bigger issues. So one made this small mistake and I think it is a small one. Is it really the end of the world.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

anonamouse said:


> A and J are both recently divorced and been dating for a few months.
> 
> Both had similar marriages. Spouses that didn't communicate, didn't consider what A or J needed or how they felt, despite repeated attempts to communicate those needs and feelings.
> 
> ...


Which one of these does A think is a minor thing? They are distinctly different points.
1. The tattoo because A didn't know J would be opposed to it
2. The tattoo because A thinks J should not have a say?

In addition, we need to consider that J may be hypersensitive to triggers.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Personally, I think the tattoo is just a symptom of the problem. Her approach to doing something she wanted to do but knew he didn't want her to do was tell him she was doing it, then shut off her phone so he couldn't talk to her. It could have been investing money, painting the house, whatever... So yes, I think the OP has justification for feeling the way he does. 

Having said that, I still don't think he has a say in what she does to her body after dating for a few months. 

Still comes down to learning about your partner who dating. She may have learned what she doesn't want her partner to do to her after her failed marriage, but did she learn anything about how she needs to change herself? From self-analysis after my marriage ended, I know I need to let my partner know when she does something that bothers me. It has nothing to do with how I need her to act or behave, it's MY behaviour that I need to modify. 

Does that make sense? 

Plus you have the added issue of what sounds like a butt-ugly (IMHO) reminder of her treatment of you every time you want to get jiggy with her. Can you get over it? Probably. Should you ignore the warning flags regardless of her words of reassurance? I don't think so. But it's only one flag... 

C


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anonamouse said:


> Thank you EleGirl, that is very useful and helpful information.
> 
> While her body if far from perfect, it was beautiful to me. To me she has permanently defaced a natural treasure. I don't know how to look at that for the rest of my life.


These days it seems that almost everyone is ok with tattoos and has at least one. I know that's not true, but close.

If my SO/spouse got a tattoo that is like what you describe, I would be very disappointed as well. I just don't like tattoos. I could deal with a small one. But a huge one? Like you I would feel that they has permanently defaced something very precious.


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## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

I have tattoos. To me, they are an expression of my thoughts and feelings. Everyone has a meaning. Now, I do too have one on my chest that needs to be covered. I got it over 20 years ago and it has no meaning to me, it is not very nice and I do not know what to cover it with. Because of what it looks like now, it will have to be of a significant size to fix it.

Now, that being said, my body is my body. If there is something that I do not like about it, then it is my decision to fix it. If I want a different hair cut, then I will get one, if I want a new tattoo, then I will get one. I may ask for OPINIONS from others, however at the end of the day what I do to my body is my choice.
I do not like facial hair on men. If my man grew out a beard and stache I would say I did not like it, but I would not stomp my feet like a toddler until he shaved.

It is a tattoo. It is insignificant. What should matter more is who she is as a person and how you get along. She sent you a pic of what she was getting, she made it known that she was going to do it. Being all pissy because you do not like it and being willing to make an otherwise good relationship get flushed over something so insignificant says loads about you. I personally think you should drop the subject of the tattoo with her before you damage your relationship further and then look into why you are so bothered over something so petty.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

Revamped said:


> I really no no idea why you're taking this so hard.
> 
> It's a TATOO.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

This 100%!!! I'll be damned if a boyfriend of mine tells me that he needs to give me input on what I plan to do to MY body.

My husband has tattoos & so do I. All of my tattoos are not visible when I wear work clothes, but I do plan on getting a half sleeve in the very near future. I have mentioned it to my husband (for budget purposes) & showed him what I want to get an idea of how much he thinks it will cost. But that's about as much feedback as I want from him about a tattoo on MY body.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

tdwal said:


> Im sure if your husband got show me the money tattoo'd on his hands it would bother you?


Funny thing is that my husband has a lot of tattoos. Most of them he got them young & they are crappy/cheap looking. Although I don't like some of his tattoos I can overlook it, they aren't that big of a deal to me.

However, I think it is a a bit backwards for a person who seems to not like tattoos to date someone with tattoos.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

PBear said:


> They've been dating game for a few months. If J doesn't like it, time to change horses.


:iagree:


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## minebeloved (Nov 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> You're mad because he didn't discuss a TATOO with you?
> 
> Really, a TATOO?
> 
> ...



Woah, assuming too much my friend. Who said the tattooed one in the relationship was the guy? Let's not assume here. point blank period reply and submit


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