# masturbation equals a debit



## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

so....I have a interesting dilemma. My wife (the lower desire partner), over the last year, has taken some pretty big steps to contribute to improving our sex life. Part of her motivation was surely that sex was the "one fight" we have in our marriage, but she also went through some self reflection of her own life, and wanted sex to be more fulfilling for herself. Overall, things are MUCH better than they used to be, but it the improvements have come with their own new challenges. One that has me a bit baffled, and hoping to get some feedback on this forum...is that my wife has significantly increased her masturbation frequency. Prior to her "new sexual self", she masturbated only a handful of times in a year (meaning times truly just by herself, not counting mutual masturbation). 

Before anyone chimes in, I am confident that it was previously that infrequent...this is not a case of me being unaware....we talk about it very openly.

In recent times, she has been more like a once a week, sometimes more, and on more than one occasion, more than once in a given day. 

Now...you may ask...what the hell is wrong with that? Should be a welcome change....and at first it was for sure. Seemed she was really starting to embrace her sexuality, exploring fantasy, etc. Problem.....when she masturbates, she does not also have interest in partner sex. She calls in a "debit from her sexual tank". She has explained to me, that she takes care of an urge herself, she often is not needing it again for a period of time, and with her increased frequency of masturbation, it has started to feel a bit like a replacement for sex together. She argues, that we have sex together more than we used to, so i should not have any issue, but as a higher desire partner, I lived for many, many years in a state of not having anywhere near as much sex and I needed or wanted, so taking any off the table always causes me to feel hurt. 

I masturbate, but it is not ever a replacement for sex with her. Never.

To add some additional commentary, there have been a few times that we had an easy opportunity to have sex, and instead she masturbates.....that makes it even tougher for me to handle. Its one thing if there is no opportunity for us to be together, but when I am available all day, then she does this 5 minutes after I walk out the door, it does not leave me feeling great about things.

I have not directly confronted this, so not sure what her response or reasoning would be, but based on some other comments, I think sometimes she has a specific fantasy/thought that is what is getting her in the mood in the first place, and being able to masturbate thinking about this is what she is after, as well as sometimes she feels she can get distracted with partnered sex, and then gets self conscious that it is taking too long (which I have NEVER had any issue with anything taking too long...I would be happy to have sex for hours). 

I am left hurt...that she sometimes (not all the time), chooses masturbation over sex with me, as well as the obvious feeling that sometimes the sex with me is "distracting" and it leaves her choosing to go solo as a more straight forward choice. 

Last note...since someone will ask/comment....we have a large selection of sex toys, and well versed in these toys. My wife has been fairly vibrator dependent for most of our marriage, but does climax 95% of all our partnered sex (so....I am sure the masturbation choice is not because she is not have orgasms in partnered sex)


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## cms01 (Apr 30, 2019)

Have you tried joining in while she masturbates so that it can possibly lead to sex?

And have you asked her why is it that she is masturbating more and not wanting to have sex with you?

I know this hurts you and probably makes me feel unwanted....I'm kinda in the same boat with my husband being the one who prefers self pleasure over sex.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

cms01 said:


> Have you tried joining in while she masturbates so that it can possibly lead to sex?
> 
> And have you asked her why is it that she is masturbating more and not wanting to have sex with you?
> 
> I know this hurts you and probably makes me feel unwanted....I'm kinda in the same boat with my husband being the one who prefers self pleasure over sex.


I am not around when she does this on her own. We do masturbate together as part of partnered sex, but the times I am referring to, I am not home. 

She tells me often when she masturbates (mentions it later, when I get home), but I have not directly confronted the issue that it is replacing sex. I think if I did, she would just stop telling me about it, and nothing else would change.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

My wife is the same way. If she takes care of herself, she's not needing any other sexual activity for a while. There was a period where she had an uptick in masturbation frequency that accompanied some refusals to me, but it was fairly shortlived, so I didn't find it to be a long term problem.

Consider the following possibility. There are many mature women who still don't have a good grip on how their own sexual response works. It makes sense for them to do some experimentation and discovery in private where they can go at their own pace, try a little of this or that, and do so without any time or performance pressure. Now if your wife is dedicated to developing a more satisfying sex life, this may be an essential step. 

If she's been at this a while, and you've been good about not pressuring her, and you can read her well, it may be time to ask her if she's willing to share what she's been doing with you, or incorporate it into your partner sex. When my wife instructed me in how to masturbate her, it became a wonderfully bonding experience. Even though it wasn't intercourse, I loved being a part of it and she ended up saying I did it better than she did herself. Now, technically, I know that's not true as I can't feel what she's feeling, but I take that to mean that the togetherness of it compensated for whatever I lack being able to adjust for firsthand sensations. 

Hopefully, the 'replacement' aspect of how this affects your sex life is merely transitional and temporary. Only she knows and only you can decide how long you're willing to abide this.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Genuine desire cannot be negotiated. 

You have a very complex problem that will take a big change on your part to become who you were when she fell in love with you, as the best option.
The best option is most desired.

Change the things you do for you. 

Don't look for the quick fix.."Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient."


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## cms01 (Apr 30, 2019)

Married_in_michigan said:


> I am not around when she does this on her own. We do masturbate together as part of partnered sex, but the times I am referring to, I am not home.
> 
> She tells me often when she masturbates (mentions it later, when I get home), but I have not directly confronted the issue that it is replacing sex. I think if I did, she would just stop telling me about it, and nothing else would change.


Besides the lack of sex, how else is the marriage? Is the love still there? and do you get along?
You should try directly asking her about this and let her know how it makes you feel.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Married_in_michigan said:


> so....I have a interesting dilemma. My wife (the lower desire partner), over the last year, has taken some pretty big steps to contribute to improving our sex life. Part of her motivation was surely that sex was the "one fight" we have in our marriage, but she also went through some self reflection of her own life, and wanted sex to be more fulfilling for herself. Overall, things are MUCH better than they used to be, but it the improvements have come with their own new challenges. One that has me a bit baffled, and hoping to get some feedback on this forum...is that my wife has significantly increased her masturbation frequency. Prior to her "new sexual self", she masturbated only a handful of times in a year (meaning times truly just by herself, not counting mutual masturbation).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What? She ‘improved’ ‘your’ ‘sexlife’ (how about I just put everything in ‘quotes’?) by masturbating more herself??? I am confused.
Are you allowed to watch? Or bring lunch with you? 

I think you need to put a mask on and ‘drain’ that sex tank of hers...I understand masturbation can be an additional thing but not a replacement. It feels to you like replacement because it is! 

Time to have a talk with her: ‘darling, it’s either your hand, or unmanned land! I demand! Understand?’ (It’s supposed to rhyme, not in a creepy or macho way...).

Ps: curious, how can you tell she is masturbating after you leave the house? Do you come back because you forgot your hat or something?



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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

the rest of the marriage is good. Not much to complain about.....although I will say, sex has been an issue for a long time, and it does weigh on the rest of the marriage.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Married_in_michigan said:


> the rest of the marriage is good. Not much to complain about.....although I will say, sex has been an issue for a long time, and it does weigh on the rest of the marriage.


Read "The Rational Male" 
It changed my sex life for the better.
His ideas can be implemented in a marriage, the author (Rollo Tomassi) has been married a long time.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> What? She ‘improved’ ‘your’ ‘sexlife’ (how about I just put everything in ‘quotes’?) by masturbating more herself??? I am confused.
> Are you allowed to watch? Or bring lunch with you?
> 
> I think you need to put a mask on and ‘drain’ that sex tank of hers...I understand masturbation can be an additional thing but not a replacement. It feels to you like replacement because it is!
> ...


I know, because she tells me about it. Not in a "rub it in your face way", but we have always talked openly about masturbating...it just used to be so rare, that it was not a replacement. I don't think she has any clue that I am aware it is replacing sex, so she does not even think about hiding it. I see the replacement part (and she herself has mentioned she does not need sex after masturbating), but dn't think she is aware that I see it as replacement and just assumes its no big deal for me. 

I do get some of your other points, but I am fairly sure if I confront her, she will first be pissed that it is her business to do when she wants, and then she will just hide it. Results is the same in the end


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Married_in_michigan said:


> Not in a "rub it in your face way"



Well....there’s an idea. Next time, maybe she COULD rub it in your face????...

I think it’s all about HOW you confront her. But if you want anything to change, confront her you must...Some wives can be quite understanding, you know?

‘I feel like I am not really much part of this whole ‘rubbing’ thing....’ or ‘do you think next time, you could wait for me before resorting to manual labour? I am more than happy to lend you a hand....’. Or ‘I miss the times when I used to be your magic wand’....
Maybe you can do it more eloquently than me....




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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married_in_michigan said:


> so....I have a interesting dilemma. My wife (the lower desire partner), over the last year, has taken some pretty big steps to contribute to improving our sex life. Part of her motivation was surely that sex was the "one fight" we have in our marriage, but she also went through some self reflection of her own life, and wanted sex to be more fulfilling for herself. Overall, things are MUCH better than they used to be, but it the improvements have come with their own new challenges. One that has me a bit baffled, and hoping to get some feedback on this forum...is that my wife has significantly increased her masturbation frequency. Prior to her "new sexual self", she masturbated only a handful of times in a year (meaning times truly just by herself, not counting mutual masturbation).
> 
> Before anyone chimes in, I am confident that it was previously that infrequent...this is not a case of me being unaware....we talk about it very openly.
> 
> ...


Go help her, and don't worry about you, just help her. See what that gets you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OP,

You won't really know more, until the "the talk".

After the talk, don't keep repeating yourself. When you know she understands what you're staying, don't harp.

Just see what happens. That will be your next guidance point, path director.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Wow. If ever there was a "Be careful what you wish for" thread in TAM, this must be a contender. Many of us would love for our wives to become more sexual, and would see masturbation as a gateway to that. Few of us would imagine that it could become a replacement for us.

I think to some extend the wife's response shows a lack of maturity and understanding; she has become not just self-serving but actively selfish when she talks about her masturbation draining the sex tank. It reminds me of Jeff Probst (the Survivor guy) who for some reason was talking about Porn, and how it's extreme allure disappeared completely in the moments after he, er, finished. It was like "Oh my god, why do I have that on???" 

Interesting, as I'm thinking along as I write, that this wife's response to her own masturbation has parallels to men addicted to porn.


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Do you ever plan date/sex nights?

You could ask her to save herself because you have plans for her later. Or tell her to edge herself but not to go over the edge until you get home.

Is she using the vibrator when she plays alone? Or is this a time when she can bring herself to an O without it? Which would probably be more pleasurable for her.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Go help her, and don't worry about you, just help her. See what that gets you.


But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself -Ricky Nelson


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

So she’s now having more sex with you. That’s a good thing.

As to the masturbation, you need to figure out what’s going on. Could you do a quickie (no orgasm for her), then she masturbates to finish herself off?

There must be a way for you both to get your needs met.

A chastity belt would stop her from getting pleasure without you present.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

The whole masturbation thing...I dunno, there are different schools of thought, it seems.
Some women do it and like to think of it as a kind of addition to their sex life (whereas to me, it also sometimes sounds like a substitution too...).
My wife’s school of thought is simple: ‘your orgasms belong to me!’ She doesn’t masturbate (she has me . Who would masturbate when I am around?...Impossible!).
She maybe did it a handful of times, on my request, while I was away. But she says she doesn’t feel the need to.

I also don’t feel the need to masturbate when at home and she is around and also available. Sometimes she is not, so I don’t want to bother her but if she finds out that I did, she doesn’t like it....When I am away, I sometimes need to. And I do. That’s where my prejudice comes from when I say that most women enjoy and want orgasm/sex, while most men NEED orgasm/sex.
I know it doesn’t apply to everyone and it’s maybe just my wife, I dunno. 
She gets very impatient and frisky after a few days of no sex, but I can never be sure whether it’s because she actually needs it (she says she does) or because she feels that I need it and therefore she should do something about it. I know it could just be me overthinking it and mind****ing myself in the process.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Married_in_michigan said:


> it has started to feel a bit like a replacement for sex together.....
> 
> .....My wife has been fairly vibrator dependent for most of our marriage, but does climax 95% of all our partnered sex (so....I am sure the masturbation choice is not because she is not have orgasms in partnered sex)





Married_in_michigan said:


> although I will say, sex has been an issue for a long time


It actually doesn't sound to me like she has ever enjoyed sex with you very much and has always preferred the vibrator. Wouldn't you say that is the case? If it is, you can't just make her want to have sex with you. She feels she takes care of you more often than she used to but doesn't want to have to take care of you every time she wants to take care of herself with a vibrator. Nor would she want to forego the vibrator if sexual relations aren't as satisfying. Sorry if that stings a little, but it's a fact of life for some couples.

But if that's not the case, then please explain the above statements that I quoted from you.

@CraigBesuden introduced me to *penis sheaths* when he mentioned them to the board. I'd never heard of them but if your size is not equal to the task that her vibrator can accomplish, you and she might consider a sheath. I'm sorry if that stings a little bit either. I just thought it was admirable for Craig to bring up a subject that some guys might not feel comfortable discussing. There's nothing shameful about it whatsoever, so I hope you will consider it and talk to your wife about it if that's the issue. Or, maybe just buy one and introduce her to it.

If that's not the issue, then perhaps you're bigger than is comfortable for her, in which case reducing isn't an option. And if this isn't the case either, then I don't know how you can wrangle the issue out of her. Many women don't speak up and don't tell the truth for fear of hurting their man's feelings. So you might never find out if whatever your size poses a problem for her.

But, maybe it has nothing to do with your size and you could just use a little help in the technique department. Sorry if that stings a little bit either, but I implore you to be open to all possibilities since you want your wife to engage in sexual relations with you more often rather than rely so much on her vibrator. That rather places the impetus on you to explore all avenues since she isn't forthcoming with her reasons as to why the vibrator has replaced you. So, check out my response in *this thread* and see what you can glean, or glean it all if you weren't previously familiar and then tweak according to her responses and her preferences.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married_in_michigan said:


> Last note...since someone will ask/comment....we have a large selection of sex toys, and well versed in these toys. My wife has been fairly vibrator dependent for most of our marriage, but *does climax 95% of all our partnered sex (so....I am sure the masturbation choice is not because she is not have orgasms in partnered sex)*


Devil's advocate here.... I would guess that at least 50% or more of her partnered orgasms might be because she feels obligated to climax. This would be the case if 5% of the time she has trouble that you find ways to keep going and do whatever to try and get here there. This is often a huge complaint in marriage. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Married_in_michigan said:


> so....I have a interesting dilemma. My wife (the lower desire partner), over the last year, has taken some pretty big steps to contribute to improving our sex life. Part of her motivation was surely that sex was the "one fight" we have in our marriage, but she also went through some self reflection of her own life, and wanted sex to be more fulfilling for herself. Overall, things are MUCH better than they used to be, but it the improvements have come with their own new challenges. One that has me a bit baffled, and hoping to get some feedback on this forum...is that my wife has significantly increased her masturbation frequency. Prior to her "new sexual self", she masturbated only a handful of times in a year (meaning times truly just by herself, not counting mutual masturbation).
> 
> Before anyone chimes in, I am confident that it was previously that infrequent...this is not a case of me being unaware....we talk about it very openly.
> 
> ...


Well, maybe. But is she taking it out of the marriage sexual tank, not just hers?

i would think maybe a counsellor or therapist might be of help, here.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I would not be ok with my partner choosing to masterbate over me.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

StarFires said:


> It actually doesn't sound to me like she has ever enjoyed sex with you very much and has always preferred the vibrator. Wouldn't you say that is the case? If it is, you can't just make her want to have sex with you.


Agreed. All things considered, she much prefers the vibrator to sex with you. You need to figure out why.

You say she orgasms with you. But she probably has many more, and more intense, orgasms with her vibe.

I give my wife many intense orgasms with my tongue.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> Agreed. All things considered, she much prefers the vibrator to sex with you. You need to figure out why.
> 
> You say she orgasms with you. But she probably has many more, and more intense, orgasms with her vibe.
> 
> I give my wife many intense orgasms with my tongue.


Yes true. I apologized if my recommendations might sting a little, but it's just that guys can't know what sex is like for women. They can only know what it's like for men. Because of that, many think that because sex is good for them due to the motions that cause friction, they don't know that women don't respond to friction, so it doesn't automatically feel good to her. That's why there are guys who roll over afterward and ask "Was it good for you?" or why in some cases their wife doesn't want to have sex with them. They don't realize there's more involved in making it good for her. That's just one example. It's a fact of life that there are other variables involved and also a fact that not all men are aware of them. 

You are a rare breed, Craig. Again, I appreciate your openness and being willing to discuss it. A woman has requirements and you just want to be able to pleasure your wife, so you're open to doing what is required, when some guys get bent out of shape and take these types of discussions as a blow to their ego. Hurt feelings can't solve things. I wish every woman had a husband like you. I hope your wife appreciates how lucky she is.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I don’t know, seems to me that if things have improved a lot sex wise between you, that you are going to be shooting yourself in the foot if you gripe about the masturbation. Maybe it’s a big part of what has helped improve things for her, and if you complain about it, it might make her withdraw again. 




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