# Falling out of love....



## kallijo3 (Oct 8, 2013)

Not sure really where or how to begin. I'm new and this is my first post. My nubby of 6 years and I are in a slump and I'm beginning to think there's no way out of it. We have 3 beautiful children I would do anything for, but not sure I can continue with this marriage if it stays the way it is. I feel like my life is passing me by, like I just go through the motions to get me through each day. He's hard on the kids, but is working on it. Not abusive physically I wouldn't say but just hard with the way he chooses to talk to them. I grew up with always being yelled at and just don't want that for my kids. We've discussed it but he then just claims I negate everything he says and that the kids don't listen to a thing he says and it's my fault. This by no means is our only issue though  I have absolutely no desire for any activity in the bedroom and he wants it all the time. And if I tell him no, then he throws a hissy fit almost like a child and it drives me even farther away. He also gets all the freedom. Like I said don't get me wrong I love my kids, but I need a break sometimes too. We both work outside the home, but I'm the one who does all running of the kids to activities, school, etc. He gets to come home from work (or whatever) whenever he wants. On occasion that I do get to go out and it happens to be without him I hear about it for weeks, how I can go out and have fun with other people but not him, I don't want to be around him, etc etc. I just don't know what to do anymore....


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

What are you asking advice on? Counseling? Divorce? An extra-marital affair? It sounds like you want to get out. No matter what you do, stay true to your vows until you are divorced.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I know how this feels. This stage where the demands of day to day life just leave you empty and you're out of ways for your marriage, for your relationship with your husband, to help you feel filled up again. Your life revolves around meeting the needs of others and when you turn to your husband you discover yet another need that you're supposed to take care of.

Can you tell about some ways that your husband could help you to feel emotionally nourished? Have you thought about how he might be able to help you feel less dragged down and more filled up?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

kallijo3 said:


> Not sure really where or how to begin. I'm new and this is my first post. My nubby of 6 years and I are in a slump and I'm beginning to think there's no way out of it. We have 3 beautiful children I would do anything for, but not sure I can continue with this marriage if it stays the way it is. I feel like my life is passing me by, like I just go through the motions to get me through each day. He's hard on the kids, but is working on it. Not abusive physically I wouldn't say but just hard with the way he chooses to talk to them. I grew up with always being yelled at and just don't want that for my kids. We've discussed it but he then just claims I negate everything he says and that the kids don't listen to a thing he says and it's my fault. This by no means is our only issue though  I have absolutely no desire for any activity in the bedroom and he wants it all the time. And if I tell him no, then he throws a hissy fit almost like a child and it drives me even farther away. He also gets all the freedom. Like I said don't get me wrong I love my kids, but I need a break sometimes too. We both work outside the home, but I'm the one who does all running of the kids to activities, school, etc. He gets to come home from work (or whatever) whenever he wants. On occasion that I do get to go out and it happens to be without him I hear about it for weeks, how I can go out and have fun with other people but not him, I don't want to be around him, etc etc. I just don't know what to do anymore....


Well there's a lot packed in there. A couple of points:

On "negating" what he says -- if you're doing it in front of the kids, sorry, but he's right. I totally understand you wanting to have a gentler approach to parenting, but this is something you have to work out with him behind closed doors and come to a compromise on. If he's tough but not abusive (is he insulting them? yelling at them out of control? lashing out arbitrarily? or does he just use a firm, harsh tone?), and you prefer a different approach, you have to talk to him about it and reach an agreement. Contradicting him to your kids constantly is actually damaging to them as well as to your marriage.

On the "I need a break too" -- you're absolutely right! But what do you mean he "gets to come home from work whenever he wants." Do you mean you think he's just staying at work to avoid homelife, or does he have a demanding career that doesn't officially require set hours but nonetheless keeps him in the office a lot? Is he going out and having fun without you or is he just working a lot? It sounds like he's not pulling his weight around the house, and he should be doing more -- is he avoiding it somehow?

Anyway, I don't really think of this kind of thing as "falling out of love." People in marriages fall in and out of love with each other back and forth throughout a marriage, it's normal. What you're describing is feeling burned out on your family life together. There's no spark left between you because you're constantly clashing, because you're too tired from all your duties, and because you feel on some level that he isn't helping you or recognizing your needs. He may feel the same way with you. 

There are a bunch of issues here. Maybe MC would help. Is he open to it?


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Your marriage sounds like mine a few years ago. Unfortunately we did not recognize the path we were on and did not fix the problems. 

I tried to write something cohesive several times but all I can come up with is, ask him what he wants. Maybe more importantly figure out what it is you really want and ask him for it. 

~Passio


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Print that original post and give it to him. Then tell him you're sorry it had to end this way, but you can't live like this any longer. You will be moving into the guest bedroom/one of the kids rooms until you sort out the details of the divorce.

"No, I don't think we can work it out. I tried to discuss it with you but you wouldn't listen. I don't think you can change. Even if you show me you can change, I fear it's too late. I don't know if I can ever trust you any more. I don't know if I can ever love you again, but I surely can't live like this any more. Good bye"

He knows what's wrong. You've told him, right? But there were never any negative consequences to not changing. What I wrote above is a negative consequence. A BIG negative consequence. The biggest, really. It WILL get is attention.

You give him ZERO hope of you coming back. If he changes under those circumstances. And STAYS changed for at least 6 months. You can start thinking about taking him back.

I call it the "kick in the gut" strategy. It worked on me, I changed IMMEDIATELY, but unfortunately my wife was too far gone. Looks like you guys may have a chance.

Kick him. HARD. Or leave him. Or live this way the rest of your life. I don't see any alternatives.

It's so simple, really. Yet women are still leaving marriages in DROVES,, and their husbands are always blindsided. When are we as a society going to get serious about this?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

MrK said:


> Print that original post and give it to him. Then tell him you're sorry it had to end this way, but you can't live like this any longer. You will be moving into the guest bedroom/one of the kids rooms until you sort out the details of the divorce.
> 
> "No, I don't think we can work it out. I tried to discuss it with you but you wouldn't listen. I don't think you can change. Even if you show me you can change, I fear it's too late. I don't know if I can ever trust you any more. I don't know if I can ever love you again, but I surely can't live like this any more. Good bye"
> 
> ...


Why is the ball 100% in the husband's court? We're only getting the wife's side of the story and even there I see problems on her side too -- she's given up on having sex with him, and she contradicts him in front of the kids. Usually when a marriage is unhappy both spouses make some contribution to it. Apologies to OP if I am wrong, I'm only surmising based on what I read.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Of course both spouses contribute. That goes without saying. But only the OP is here, seeking help. Her husband isn't here, or maybe he is one of the guys in SIM who b!tches about not getting any sex. 

This is highly fixable if she wants to work on it.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Like A Kay says

"Men want better sex

Women want better men"


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Of course both spouses contribute. That goes without saying. But only the OP is here, seeking help. Her husband isn't here, or maybe he is one of the guys in SIM who b!tches about not getting any sex.
> 
> This is highly fixable if she wants to work on it.


Totally agree. I was only saying that in response to the comment about the "kick in the gut" strategy. That may work when one spouse's behavior is the sole problem (abuse, cheating, a drug problem, complete disinterest while the other person tries to work on things, etc.), but here it sounds like it's not only him. She said he makes real effort toward being better with the kids, so he doesn't sound like a lost cause.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Totally agree. I was only saying that in response to the comment about the "kick in the gut" strategy. That may work when one spouse's behavior is the sole problem (abuse, cheating, a drug problem, complete disinterest while the other person tries to work on things, etc.), but here it sounds like it's not only him. She said he makes real effort toward being better with the kids, so he doesn't sound like a lost cause.


No, he doesn't sound like a lost cause.

But she mentioned that he doesn't help with some things and when she needs a break by going out with friends he tosses a hissy fit. He also tosses a hissy fit when he doesn't get sex. This doesn't sound like a man who will think to himself, "hmm, my wife doesn't seem to respond to me like she used to, I wonder if I am contributing to this some how?" 

Women sense a problem in their marriage and the first thing they think is, how do I solve this, what do I need to do differently to make it better.

Men sense a problem when they don't get sex. Then they get upset because they feel rejected, without considering that THEY are the reason they might not be getting sex.

Both spouses contribute, but women go internal while men go external.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I know how this feels. This stage where the demands of day to day life just leave you empty and you're out of ways for your marriage, for your relationship with your husband, to help you feel filled up again. Your life revolves around meeting the needs of others and when you turn to your husband you discover yet another need that you're supposed to take care of.
> 
> Can you tell about some ways that your husband could help you to feel emotionally nourished? Have you thought about how he might be able to help you feel less dragged down and more filled up?


A variation on that is that you've spent all your time and energy on meeting the needs of others except for your husband, and when you go to him for emotional support he has too much hurt and resentment to provide it. You mistakenly believe that your husband is fine because he hasn't complained but he's been suffering for a long time. The "hissy fit" (too pejorative a term for this situation) isn't a childish petty thing in this case. It's indicative of the damage the husband has suffered in the relationship. 

Some women give enormous and unhealthy amounts of time and effort to others, but when you look closely, very little of it is to the husband. When the woman's inevitable burnout comes, the husband becomes the expendable one, which isn't surprising because he was low man on the totem pole for most of the marriage anyway. 

This is a scenario I'm quite familiar with. Of course it works both ways - having kids can lead to relationship neglect for anyone, but women tend to make their husbands secondary to the children while husbands don't do the same to their wives. 

When kids are quite young it's natural to put them first, but when that continues beyond the extremely labor intensive first few years, something is wrong.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Kallijo

You sound like my wife a few years ago.

Her main complaint was my short temper with her and our children.

After one of tantrums she looked me in the eye and said she would never be seen with me in public again.

And that made me pause.

Because my wife does not say something like that lightly.

So I sat her down. And I talked to her. 

Not as her husband but as her friend. I made that very clear.

I explained to her that I was raised by two parents who yelled all the time. She explained that she was not.

She was very upset. Again something that rarely occurs. I knew my wife was at the end of her rope.

We were also struggling financially at this time so we both felt the pressure.

SO after listening to her complaints which were valid, I felt not as bad as she felt they were but valid I made a decision.

I told her that I was going to speak to her as her husband now. I made sure she understood that.

I made a commitment to vent my frustrations through exercise and outside chores around the house. I made a commitment not to raise my voice in anger and yell at the kids even if they did something wrong.

THat was over a year ago. My wife is much happier and so am I. 

And I will tell you something else. My wifes level of respect for me has risen. 

And that means the world to me.

You are entitled to some "me" time. Your husband probably needs to grow up some as well as help you more with the kids.

But unless you show him how serious you are and the changes you want you will get nothing in return.

So communicate with him effectively. And do not turn him down because he turns you off.

Remember, it takes two to tango. It takes two to have a happy marriage.

Show him by your own actions what you want and expect.

HM


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

VermisciousKnid said:


> A variation on that is that you've spent all your time and energy on meeting the needs of others except for your husband, and when you go to him for emotional support he has too much hurt and resentment to provide it. You mistakenly believe that your husband is fine because he hasn't complained but he's been suffering for a long time. The "hissy fit" (too pejorative a term for this situation) isn't a childish petty thing in this case. It's indicative of the damage the husband has suffered in the relationship.
> 
> Some women give enormous and unhealthy amounts of time and effort to others, but when you look closely, very little of it is to the husband. When the woman's inevitable burnout comes, the husband becomes the expendable one, which isn't surprising because he was low man on the totem pole for most of the marriage anyway.
> 
> ...



I completely agree with every word. You have opened my eyes to my own mistakes in the past when we had younger kids. I'm glad you posted this. Thank you.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Women sense a problem in their marriage and the first thing they think is, how do I solve this, what do I need to do differently to make it better.
> 
> Men sense a problem when they don't get sex. Then they get upset because they feel rejected, without considering that THEY are the reason they might not be getting sex.
> 
> Both spouses contribute, but women go internal while men go external.


That seems more than a little simplistic, and biased in favor of women. What you're really saying is "when there's a problem, women in relationships do the right thing, and men do the wrong thing." Ironically, I don't see the OP saying "what do I need to do to make it better." I see "I give up" "I am frustrated" "my husband doesn't meet my needs." Somehow, of course, the fact that the husband is getting zero sex doesn't count as a "need" -- it can only be his fault that he's not getting it in the first place. See what I mean?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

John Lee said:


> That seems more than a little simplistic, and biased in favor of women. What you're really saying is "when there's a problem, women in relationships do the right thing, and men do the wrong thing." Ironically, I don't see the OP saying "what do I need to do to make it better." I see "I give up" "I am frustrated" "my husband doesn't meet my needs." Somehow, of course, the fact that the husband is getting zero sex doesn't count as a "need" -- it can only be his fault that he's not getting it in the first place. See what I mean?


Yes I do! I am guilty of projecting. I apologize.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Yes I do! I am guilty of projecting. I apologize.


No worries


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

MrK said:


> "No, I don't think we can work it out. I tried to discuss it with you but you wouldn't listen. I don't think you can change. Even if you show me you can change, I fear it's too late. I don't know if I can ever trust you any more. I don't know if I can ever love you again, but I surely can't live like this any more. Good bye"


I suggest you say these things only if they are immutably true. If you are done, say so. If you want to try to repair the relationship, be specific about what his role needs to be. TAM posters will generally advise against domicile separation if you want to repair the relationship, but in-house separation sends a clear message. Kindest Regards-


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

kallijo3 said:


> On occasion that I do get to go out and it happens to be without him I hear about it for weeks, how I can go out and have fun with other people but not him, I don't want to be around him, etc etc. I just don't know what to do anymore....


"You're right, husband, I DON'T want to be around you. You are negative, critical, and downright mean to the kids and passive aggressive to me. Why would I want to be around that?"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You, however, need to look at what HE is seeing. I'm sure he feels ignored and left out. And if you do undermine what he says in front of the kids, that's just about the worst thing a wife can do. Men need to be admired, and doing that cuts to the core.

Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

happyman64 said:


> Kallijo
> 
> You sound like my wife a few years ago.
> 
> ...


OK, maybe not a kick in the gut, but a hard slap.

He needs to know you mean it.


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## kallijo3 (Oct 8, 2013)

Thanks everyone for you replies. 
First off I don't believe I "negate" everything he says and I don't say any about it to him in front of the kids. I understand that if I was doing that in front of the kids that wouldn't be fair. To me he doesn't have hardly any patience with them before he results in yelling at them or spanking them.
Second off when I say he comes home whenever he wants, I mean he sometimes does work late, but most of the time he gets off work and then goes and drinks with his buddies until he's ready to come home. We do once in a while get to go out together and usually results in him getting drunk and me being the DD.
I understand he needs and wants more "activity" between us, but I don't know what to do to get more in the mood. 
We had discussions about all of this several times and it always turns into him blowing up and walking out...I guess I'm just lost.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You need to learn about boundaries. You have none and he's using that to his advantage. What he doesn't realize is his actions are severely affecting your affection for him. So you need to show him in actions (consequences for overstepping your boundaries). You really CAN stand up to him when he does something you don't agree with. 

Get the boundaries book by Cloud and Townsend; it's amazing and will change your life around.

In the meantime, just start practicing small boundaries. For example, "Husband, I don't believe in raising my voice to my child; I can parent without yelling and without hitting. If you yell or hit one of the kids, I'm going to take said kid out of the room and deal with the issue on my own. You can either learn to control your temper or you'll be left out of the equation."

And then DO IT if he yells or hit again. You taking the kid out of the room is his consequence for ignoring your need for a rational coparent.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

turnera said:


> In the meantime, just start practicing small boundaries. For example, "Husband, I don't believe in raising my voice to my child; I can parent without yelling and without hitting. If you yell or hit one of the kids, I'm going to take said kid out of the room and deal with the issue on my own. You can either learn to control your temper or you'll be left out of the equation."


The position above appears controlling to me. "You will parent my way, or I will remove your opportunity to parent". How do you feel when your DH yells at the kids or doesn't pull his weight? Can you communicate those feelings to your DH and then establish boundaries you are willing to defend? Turnera suggested, "His Needs, Her Needs"... seems like good advice in this case.

Anyone can defend their behavior, but no one should ever deny you feel the way you do. For those unable to empathize (narcissist or psychotic, some personality disorders) you must evaluate your options.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It does appear controlling, but what he is doing is abusive, so the child's well-being is of paramount importance. Anything other than the child, I'm fine with negotiating first.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

turnera said:


> It does appear controlling, but what he is doing is abusive, so the child's well-being is of paramount importance. Anything other than the child, I'm fine with negotiating first.


You can burn the entire world down by fighting fire with fire, or you can quench the fire with water. Compassion is the water of which everyone is deserving by virtue of their humanity. Bad behavior does not render us unworthy of compassion.

Meeting abuse with force (control) exacerbates the underlying problems of both partners. I wonder why the DH needs to yell at the children, and I am certain there must be a story. That's not to say I would tolerate aberrant behavior, but I would look to understand its source rather than try to control its expression.

In short, there is no reprieve, no exigent circumstance where compassion is optional. Although, I do accept very few people agree with me on this point. I had to stop looking at CWI as the vengeful postings were starting to sadden me. 

The world suffers for the lack of empathy, the world is dying for lack of compassion. -JA


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I never said to not be compassionate. I said to remove the child from the abuse first and then deal with options.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

turnera said:


> I never said to not be compassionate. I said to remove the child from the abuse first and then deal with options.


I do sound way too preachy... I am reading the Dalai Lama's, 'Beyond Religion' and I may be rubbing against the 'compassion is my religion' a little too hard. I do think about the ethereal argument between Augustine and Aquinas: He who turns the other cheek gets slapped twice. Kindest Regards-


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

kallijo3 said:


> Thanks everyone for you replies.
> First off I don't believe I "negate" everything he says and I don't say any about it to him in front of the kids. I understand that if I was doing that in front of the kids that wouldn't be fair. To me he doesn't have hardly any patience with them before he results in yelling at them or spanking them.
> Second off when I say he comes home whenever he wants, I mean he sometimes does work late, but most of the time he gets off work and then goes and drinks with his buddies until he's ready to come home. We do once in a while get to go out together and usually results in him getting drunk and me being the DD.
> I understand he needs and wants more "activity" between us, but I don't know what to do to get more in the mood.
> We had discussions about all of this several times and it always turns into him blowing up and walking out...I guess I'm just lost.


To be fair to you, this sounds much worse on his part than I initially thought from your post. I'm wondering if he has an alcohol problem -- in my experience, it's not exactly "normal" for one spouse to get drunk every time there's a date, and on top of that, he's staying out drinking with his work buddies on weeknights when he has a family at home. Does he drink at home too? Does he have alcoholism in his family? I don't think you should feel like you have to tolerate that kind of behavior, and under the circumstances, no wonder you don't feel like having sex with him. So you have my full sympathy. Your problems don't necessarily sound beyond hope, but it sounds like you could benefit from counselling together -- did you say he's against it? He may need a more objective third person to give him a bit of a wakeup call about his staying out drinking. It also sounds like you're saying he's too quick to anger with the kids -- that's not the same as being a harsh disciplinarian in my opinion. A harsh disciplinarian is strict but consistent, staying in control. It sounds like you're saying he doesn't control his anger. Is that right?


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