# Privacy and finding spouse via app



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

BATTLESHIPS CONFIDE IN ME AND TELL ME WHERE YOU ARE
(From "Yours is no disgrace" by YES... many years ago... were they onto something?)

Differing notions of privacy are an obvious issue for many. In my case, my wife knows where I am, 24/7. She can track me anytime I'm away from home via the Strava app, since I ride a bike everywhere, no car. Which I have no issue with. Other than when I'm commuting or training on my bike, I'm either at work or at home. I have virtually no free time anyway; everything's pretty structured.

My wife... she gets uptight if I use the Tesla app and see that she's at the store and I text her to add something to the list. That it's somehow wrong for me to know where she is. Yet she absolutely depends upon knowing my whereabouts very frequently and any deviation is cause for concern (to her).

Is it wrong to use a car app to locate your spouse if they don't answer a text in a reasonable length of time? Of course that's another thing. I have two minutes to answer a text from her or she gets really annoyed. But it's OK for her to not check her watch (which delivers text messages to her) for hours at a time.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You know that your wife has two sets of rules — one for her and one for you.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Casual Observer ,
I think of it as the difference between privacy and secrecy. PRIVACY is closing the door to go to the bathroom—like modesty. SECRECY is not being transparent and hiding “the real you.” 

Is your wife being secretive? I don’t know. Maybe she wants to cover up something but it doesn’t sound like it. But she does not want to share herself transparently! That would be letting you see through her “image” to see her true self, warts and all. It sounds like she wants to keep her “less than perfect” warts a secret.

Why don’t you two sit down together and write out a privacy agreement? That way, there would be written rules for both of you (not just one).


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

You seem to already know the answer to your question. So if you were looking for validation that it’s ok for you to check on your wife’s location via app (especially since she does with you, but even if she didn’t)...consider yourself validated. Privacy is somewhat limited in a marriage, and this isn’t an area where it applies, at least in my opinion.

The bigger concern here is the leadership dynamic in your marriage. Maybe I’m wrong, but from your post it seems like your wife is setting the tone and expectations in your marriage.

The comment about her being often unresponsive via text while you “have two minutes to answer a text from her or she gets really annoyed,” doesn’t sound like you are leading the dynamics of your relationship. My thought when I read that was is she your wife or your mother?

Not trying to be harsh but it seems (albeit based on limited info) that location tracking isn’t your issue, it’s the leadership dynamics of your relationship. Your wife seems to be the one setting the expectations for her behavior and yours, and you’re here asking us if it’s ok for you to have a problem with it...


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Any man I've ever been in a relationship with wouldn't put up with a relationship dynamic such as yours, especially about the double standard about location tracking.


----------



## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

I wouldn't ever put up with the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. If it happened to me the marriage would be over. You are partners and the best way of doing business is to be equal about it.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

When I write about testing, this would be exactly what I am talking about but I am sure there has been a lot of bull**** to get all the way here.. You should be strong enough to tell her to cut the **** out, and not have to post it here to see if you are right. Obvious double standard is obvious.

Way too passive.


----------



## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

You say your wife "can" check on you but does she? 
You check on her and she has the opportunity to check on you. If she doesn't, maybe she wants the same courtesy?


----------



## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

DudeInProgress said:


> You seem to already know the answer to your question. So if you were looking for validation that it’s ok for you to check on your wife’s location via app (especially since she does with you, but even if she didn’t)...consider yourself validated. Privacy is somewhat limited in a marriage, and this isn’t an area where it applies, at least in my opinion.
> 
> The bigger concern here is the leadership dynamic in your marriage. Maybe I’m wrong, but from your post it seems like your wife is setting the tone and expectations in your marriage.
> 
> ...


I suggest you give this a bit of consideration.

I also suggest your wife has a wrong idea about being honest regarding her whereabouts. 
What if? She has a flat tire and needs assistance? Maybe away from people like on a road trip?
What if all you want to know is where she is so you can plan dinner and have it hot when she arrives?
Or what if you plan to meet somewhere at a particular time and she is late? 

I suggest any spouse who wants to 'hide' their whereabouts is up to no good. Maybe she has just some kind of 
odd idea of what being a partner in life entails - or worse.

I suggest you start keeping tabs on spending, time away vs activity (what she says she is doing), and distances 
driven. Do you have access to CC bills and Bank account(s)? 

What you have posted would be what is commonly called a "gut feeling" as in something fishy going on.

Also don't challenge when you find something - put together enough information, if you get it, so that YOU 
are convinced. 

Then NEVER tell your sources.

Hopefully you just find she has a warped idea of what being a life partner is all about.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> You seem to already know the answer to your question. So if you were looking for validation that it’s ok for you to check on your wife’s location via app (especially since she does with you, but even if she didn’t)...consider yourself validated. Privacy is somewhat limited in a marriage, and this isn’t an area where it applies, at least in my opinion.
> 
> The bigger concern here is the leadership dynamic in your marriage. Maybe I’m wrong, but from your post it seems like your wife is setting the tone and expectations in your marriage.
> 
> ...


Validation? Nah, just wondering how common it is. At the heart of it, it's a "control" thing. She doesn't like to be held accountable and this is her way of controlling that. The question is, can you even touch something like this after so many years?


----------



## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

I find it odd your wife gets upset when you look at her location for such reasonable reasons.

My husband and I share locations and FREQUENTLY send eye emojis as a joke and obviously use it for things you do, such as adding something to the grocery store. I’m not understanding why your location should be a secret unless you’re over here trying to control where she is or where she goes. However, we do have couple friends that find it weird that we share locations as well. You know just need a sit down talk about this.


----------



## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

I have no idea why couples wouldn't want to share their locations. We both like an adult beverage waiting for us when we walk in the door.

OP, it is a relationship dynamic thing. I don't think you can turn off the tracking of the car. So she is knowingly being tracked, just via a nice car. (Not gonna say let her drive a Pinto, but there, I did.)


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FlaviusMaximus said:


> You say your wife "can" check on you but does she?
> You check on her and she has the opportunity to check on you. If she doesn't, maybe she wants the same courtesy?


Previously answered. Yes, she expects me to be where I'm supposed to be and respond quickly. Which I do.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think you should start responding as quickly (or not quickly) as she does.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I think you should start responding as quickly (or not quickly) as she does.


Yeah, tried that. Have even brought it up with the MC. Easy to show text threads in which she's upset if I take more than a couple minutes to respond, while I have texts that go for hours... and hours... 

I'd just like her to get comfortable with me wondering, at any odd time of the day, "Hey, wonder what's my wife up to right now?" In the past I've even surprised her by putting flowers on her car when she was out grocery shopping nearby.

We've kind of made this all about me. I was wondering more about others, what's normal, what's not.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

In general I don't care if my bf knows where I am, but I don't know that I'd want him tracking every last place I go shopping.

But the double standard is not ok.

I like the question asked earlier regarding whether she actually does track you. 

Does she?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

So, you’re looking to see how common this problematic relationship dynamic is (presumably so you can feel like you’re not the only one, and maybe it’s not that bad), but you don’t actually intend to take any action or do anything about it...

You’re ok with a controlling wife being in control of your marriage?
“She doesn’t like being held accountable for her actions?” No ****, nobody does. So what?

Setting the tone and being the leader in your marriage is your job dude. And if you are doing your job as the leader in your marriage, and she respects you, she will allow you to hold her accountable. She’ll still push you and test you to see what she can get away with, but she will respect and appreciate your strength and leadership.

How common is it is a ******** copout question anyway, so who cares. 
Probably very common in crappy marriages with resentful wives who are pissed off because they’ve had to be the leader in the marriage because their husband was too timid and compliant (this really turns off women by the way). 
Extremely uncommon in healthy, fulfilling marriages I suspect.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, that’s not normal. My husband and I didn’t track each other but I know people who do and none of them have a situation like yours.

(P.S. Your wife has always been an entitled princess and she’s not changing.)


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Openminded said:


> No, that’s not normal. My husband and I didn’t track each other but I know people who do and none of them have a situation like yours.
> 
> (P.S. Your wife has always been an entitled princess and she’s not changing.)


Things are changing, but it's gradual and she doesn't realize, I don't think, how her IC is going about it. Her therapy has changed direction significantly and there's a lot more accountability now. She's moved from secular to a Christian therapist that is working really hard to get her to see a bigger picture and accept that pain is part of the process going forward. I've been moved completely out of the picture; I get zero contact with the therapist and no game plan. My wife gets to grow up on her own without my prodding. It's someone else that will judge progress. That's a good thing. 

When I said track each other, it's not like I'm constantly looking to see where she is. Maybe twice a day, usually when I know she's going to be out and about. If she's coming to work at our business that day, I can be ready to meet her at her car when she arrives and give her a kiss. 

She doesn't have to track me. She knows where I am at all times. My strava app sends her a link each time I go out on my bike so she can track me in real time, but she doesn't. Which I admit sometimes makes me feel insignificant. I'd like for her to make sure I haven't died somewhere along the way on a 60 mile ride, but she doesn't take an interest in it. 

She knows my master passwords; I don't know hers. Since I'm the IT sort of guy for the business, it's not like I couldn't hack in but I don't.


----------



## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Previously answered. Yes, she expects me to be where I'm supposed to be and respond quickly. Which I do.


Well then it's a double standard, not sure which you prefer but whats good for the goose as they say...


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She is always (ALWAYS) going to mean a great deal more to you than you do to her. That’s just the reality of life with her.


----------



## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

OP - you need to stop with the displays of affection and talk about this tracking thing. It doesnt make sense so she needs to take the time to talk and explain her perspective so you aren't left so confused. There's a clear disconnect due to a lack of communication.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

The power dynamic in this relationship is totally out of wack. I really fear for you.

You should read some of the threads I have created on this board. You think you are going to love her into a balanced relationship and it won't work. Your wife need to have some healthy fear of losing you. Period. "She gets upset", GOOD. Your job is not to always prevent her from being upset. She probably would like a little challenge. 

Women want strength, and assertiveness, you can still be kind but when it's bull**** which this imbalance is you have to be assertive enough to get her to stop it. She is testing your strength and you are failing. They don't want a guy they can push around and is going to give her flowers the next day. That doesn't come across as attractive.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> BATTLESHIPS CONFIDE IN ME AND TELL ME WHERE YOU ARE
> (From "Yours is no disgrace" by YES... many years ago... were they onto something?)
> 
> Differing notions of privacy are an obvious issue for many. In my case, my wife knows where I am, 24/7. She can track me anytime I'm away from home via the Strava app, since I ride a bike everywhere, no car. Which I have no issue with. Other than when I'm commuting or training on my bike, I'm either at work or at home. I have virtually no free time anyway; everything's pretty structured.
> ...


I have seen this kind of thing with a few couples I know. My observation is it's a self centeredness problem. What is important to her is whats important, whats not important to her, even if it's important to someone else, isn't important. So she needs to know where you are when it's important to her, but when you need to know where she is it's not important to her so it's not important and you shouldn't need to check the app to see where she is. 

That is what I have determined with these other couples, not sure about your situation or something along those lines.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

moulinyx said:


> OP - you need to stop with the displays of affection and talk about this tracking thing. It doesnt make sense so she needs to take the time to talk and explain her perspective so you aren't left so confused. There's a clear disconnect due to a lack of communication.


it’s not a lack of communication, it’s a lack of respect.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

sokillme said:


> The power dynamic in this relationship is totally out of wack. I really fear for you.
> 
> You should read some of the threads I have created on this board. You think you are going to love her into a balanced relationship and it won't work. Your wife need to have some healthy fear of losing you. Period. "She gets upset", GOOD. Your job is not to always prevent her from being upset. She probably would like a little challenge.
> 
> Women want strength, and assertiveness, you can still be kind but when it's bull**** which this imbalance is you have to be assertive enough to get her to stop it. She is testing your strength and you are failing. They don't want a guy they can push around and is going to give her flowers the next day. That doesn't come across as attractive.


This is truth. OP, head the above.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> We've kind of made this all about me. I was wondering more about others, what's normal, what's not.


I think @Emerging Buddhist and I are close to normal and in a pretty healthy relationship, so here’s what we do. We are both tech geeks. We both have “locate” on our phones turned on. We both know each other’s master passwords for computers and phones.

On the occasion, I think about him during the day and I locate him to see where he is...not out of doubt (he’s also always where he says), but because I like him and I think about his day. If there’s a snow storm or weird weather I locate to see how far away he is or if he’s stuck. I have no idea if he locates me, but I suspect when I come into town with him he’ll check where I am when I’m bringing lunch! Lol.

As to our computers and phones, I often hand him my phone to see a good article or good thread on TAM. He’ll hand me his just as freely. We don’t close anything when the other one comes into the room, other than to put it down and greet each other. He can look at anything about me any time he wants, because he is my spouse and I volunteer to be transparent with him. I believe I can look at anything about him any time too.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's double standards. Turn off your own tracking and see how she likes it...


----------



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> Yeah, tried that. Have even brought it up with the MC. Easy to show text threads in which she's upset if I take more than a couple minutes to respond, while I have texts that go for hours... and hours...
> 
> I'd just like her to get comfortable with me wondering, at any odd time of the day, "Hey, wonder what's my wife up to right now?" In the past I've even surprised her by putting flowers on her car when she was out grocery shopping nearby.
> 
> We've kind of made this all about me. I was wondering more about others, what's normal, what's not.


Your question should be what's acceptable, and what's not. 

It's not acceptable that one spouse can check on the location of another spouse and expect texts to be immediately replied to, while taking offence to having their location trackable and taking hours to reply to texts. 

Doesn't sound like she deserves flowers...


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I wouldn’t mind having a tracker on me, but it would Creep me out if I would get a random message saying hey I see your at the store can you...

To me it’s the same as sharing passwords and phones passcodes. It’s fine to share them, but if I see you going through my phone occasionally I think that’s weird, even if I have nothing to find. I am also a believer in if you look you will find. So there will be something that you could take a certain way and start a fight over it with or whatever. If I went to my friends new house and you were like hey, where were you today I didn’t recognize that place, it’s kinda off putting some exhausting. If you asked me about my day I would of told you anyway.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

My wife knows more of what I am up to generally as she handles most of our finances and online banking. I don’t have any secret accounts or cards so she literally sees every time I touch any non investment money, and any cash removed from there goes to a checking account she manages. 

This has been beneficial for me over the years as I specifically requested not to know if she gives her family money. My stipulation is if I went to buy something with “petty cash” on an ATM card it better not overdraw. Other than that I don’t think we have discussed money in maybe 15 years.

As for location we generally know where the other one is unless on a trip.

We have each other’s phone passwords, logins, retirement logins, etc...


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Casual Observer said:


> Yet she absolutely depends upon knowing my whereabouts very frequently and any deviation is cause for concern (to her).





Casual Observer said:


> She doesn't have to track me. She knows where I am at all times. My strava app sends her a link each time I go out on my bike so she can track me in real time, *but she doesn't*. Which I admit sometimes makes me feel insignificant. I'd like for her to make sure I haven't died somewhere along the way on a 60 mile ride, but she doesn't take an interest in it.


With the 'tracking' aspect, I'm confused.

The way I read this, I can't tell whether she depends upon knowing your whereabouts very frequently or not. The quoted is in opposition.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> With the 'tracking' aspect, I'm confused.
> 
> The way I read this, I can't tell whether she depends upon knowing your whereabouts very frequently or not. The quoted is in opposition.


I think what he means is that she wants to be able to track him all the time (even if she doesn't) but she resents him tracking her... maybe I'm wrong...


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I think what he means is that she wants to be able to track him all the time (even if she doesn't) but she resents him tracking her... maybe I'm wrong...


I think she requires him to reply to texts right away or she berates him, yet she takes hours to respond to him when she wants to.

With that sort of behavior, I'd ONE time point out the inconsistency, tell her if she wants to have the type of connection that entails immediate response to texts that it goes BOTH WAYS. 

In the future if she failed to demonstrate that on her end yet had the nerve to berate me yet again for not replying immediately, I'd say, we already talked about this issue, and then walk away from her, discussion over. Each and every time. I don't think OP does anything like this and she continues to rule the relationship and not care a fig about him in many ways.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> If I went to my friends new house and you were like hey, where were you today I didn’t recognize that place, it’s kinda off putting some exhausting. If you asked me about my day I would of told you anyway.


I was thinking similarly. If I was out and about and knew my husband regularly checked my location twice a day, admittedly, I'd find it off-putting. Thinking as to why I would, no offense intended @Casual Observer, I'm just sharing from my personality and world view; it wouldn't relate so much to viewing my location, rather it would be that I'd view him as quite... _needy. _And not in the way that appeals to me. There's also something to be said for a little bit of mystery, or exchanging with one another. Hypothetically, if I tried a new coffee place, he's going to hear about it as I like that we share details of our day. If he'd already looked at my location and beat me to it, that he knew I was there, well, that would feel strange and off-putting to me. That's my take.

In saying ALL of that, we do use the location app  ...not often, though. I view his location more than he would mine. And that's sometimes (not every time) when he's called out to emergencies; I'll have a look to see where he's at and can kind of gauge what's going on - well, aside from the time I saw him bouncing all over the place. I was listening to the communication feed but couldn't figure it out. I wondered what he was doing! When he got home, he was telling me what happened, and what he was doing to assist. Which made complete sense in relation to the bouncing dot. We were laughing together when I told him about it.

Back in the day of large rock concerts (aka before the global pandemic), we went to a concert with another couple. Afterwards, we got separated amidst the massive crowd exiting. He contacted me and said my friend and I had overshot where they were (him and her husband) and helped to direct us back. Friend asked how he knew where we were. I told her that he'd looked at my location on the app. It was very handy! He would typically check mine if he felt concerned about my safety, such as been longer than expected and not answering my phone kinda deal; which is rare.

As for the response with text messages, log-ins and such, I can't relate and don't get it.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Maybe she feels smothered with all of the spying. You think you're being romantic and smart.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> I was thinking similarly. If I was out and about and knew my husband regularly checked my location twice a day, admittedly, I'd find it off-putting. Thinking as to why I would, no offense intended @Casual Observer, I'm just sharing from my personality and world view; it wouldn't relate so much to viewing my location, rather it would be that I'd view him as quite... _needy. _And not in the way that appeals to me. There's also something to be said for a little bit of mystery, or exchanging with one another. Hypothetically, if I tried a new coffee place, he's going to hear about it as I like that we share details of our day. If he'd already looked at my location and beat me to it, that he knew I was there, well, that would feel strange and off-putting to me. That's my take.
> 
> In saying ALL of that, we do use the location app  ...not often, though. I view his location more than he would mine. And that's sometimes (not every time) when he's called out to emergencies; I'll have a look to see where he's at and can kind of gauge what's going on - well, aside from the time I saw him bouncing all over the place. I was listening to the communication feed but couldn't figure it out. I wondered what he was doing! When he got home, he was telling me what happened, and what he was doing to assist. Which made complete sense in relation to the bouncing dot. We were laughing together when I told him about it.
> 
> ...


I agree. OP says he uses the location thing to put flowers on her car when she's out and about and so he can greet her at her car when she arrives at work to give her a kiss (yikes). Years of this kind of ass kissing to someone who doesn't care much about your interests and needs has created a negative marital dynamic.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

My wife can't check where I am (not that she cares ) because I have an old Apple phone (the devil) that I can't really use everyday and which I use only for tracking the rest of the family. I have an Android phone. I only track members of the family when they are out and I'm cooking something, so I can time it correctly... I can't really comprehend how the OP accepts such an imbalance situation regarding the tracking...


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I imagine all of the tracking can make some people feel like a prisoner.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Livvie said:


> I agree. OP says he uses the location thing to put flowers on her car when she's out and about and so he can greet her at her car when she arrives at work to give her a kiss (yikes). Years of this kind of ass kissing to someone who doesn't care much about your interests and needs has created a negative marital dynamic.


This is why I alluded to a bit of mystery, just even a hint of it.

Batman and I typically greet one another at the door in one way or another. Occasionally, I've pulled up and he's come out to help with the bags, given me a big smooch. Other times (and mostly) he's walking to the door when I'm already inside. Similarly with roles reversed. For me at least, there's an appeal in the sporadic, rather than routine. Oh and that other time that I came home when I was annoyed with him about something... he had the front door already open, candles lit, my fave music playing. I told him 'Don't think that playing [my fave music] is going to bring me around!' He reacted all cool and nonchalant, like it ain't no thing. And bloody hell, yes, he swayed my mood around within about 15mins. Rolled eyes at myself and we were laughing together.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> I think what he means is that she wants to be able to track him all the time (even if she doesn't) but she resents him tracking her... maybe I'm wrong...


Pretty much this. But same for texting. She expects me to instantly answer but it’s ok if mine go for hours without reply. 


Livvie said:


> I agree. OP says he uses the location thing to put flowers on her car when she's out and about and so he can greet her at her car when she arrives at work to give her a kiss (yikes). Years of this kind of ass kissing to someone who doesn't care much about your interests and needs has created a negative marital dynamic.


We're talking maybe once a year? 

After her last meeting with the new therapist, my wife wrote a long letter of things she needs to work on and said "So, here is the round up: I have been deceitful, I have lied, I have been selfish, been guilty, had regret and I need to put my ego aside, and there is a lack of trust." "I need to put my ego aside and show you that I love you. I am selfish and I am trying to protect myself from myself. Yes I need my private time, but not at your expense."

Interesting times ahead.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> I imagine all of the tracking can make some people feel like a prisoner.


Why does checking in on her whereabouts twice a day (if that) on the car app make someone feel like a prisoner, but not sending someone texts that expect immediate replies?


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> I imagine all of the tracking can make some people feel like a prisoner.


The government, yes... the wife, only if I was up to shenanigans.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> It's double standards. Turn off your own tracking and see how she likes it...


I agree with this, except perhaps when you're actively riding your bike, since it would be useful to be able to find you in case of an accident. However, discussing the issue of double standards would be more useful as a first step, to determine why this is an issue for her and what compromise would be acceptable.

We've never tracked each other, and have never felt the need. We almost always know where the other is, and with whom, but often not in any detail.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

So CO I think you are saying she doesn't actually _track_ you, but what she expects is immediate replies to texts (while not doing the same for you-- she goes hours without replying when she wants to). Is that right?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> So CO I think you are saying she doesn't actually _track_ you, but what she expects is immediate replies to texts (while not doing the same for you-- she goes hours without replying when she wants to). Is that right?


Doesn't change much... still double standards.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> Why does checking in on her whereabouts twice a day (if that) on the car app make someone feel like a prisoner, but not sending someone texts that expect immediate replies?


The tracking and texting are two different things. I carry my cellphone when I'm out in case of an emergency. If someone were to text me while I'm out, it wouldn't be seen until whenever. If you don't want to respond within 2 minutes, don't.

Think back to when tracking your spouse wasn't possible. Did you wring your hands when she was out of your sight? Did you worry about her every minute she was gone? Were you riding around on your bike trying to find her? I'm guessing the answer is no. Or, at least I hope it is no.

Your wife seems to need more 'me' time than you. Perhaps, you can allow her to go the store without reminding her that you have her on an electronic tether. She isn't up to anything 'shady', rest assured.

You mentioned it is a 'control' thing and that your wife doesn't like to be held accountable. Which in this context sounds totally screwed up. It is a 'control' thing, only your wife isn't the one with the problem.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I cannot tell you the last time I checked my wife's location... I am pretty sure it was in the Summer of 2018 when she would drive up here from her old home or back 7 hours and a state away. We have locations turned on still but honestly I would not care outside of asking her if she really thought it healthy dependency to be so fearful of not knowing my daily whereabouts if she needed to know on-demand where I was at any given time.

I have a near 30 mile commute into town for work every day on a small state highway known for regular fatal accidents, I am sure @Affaircare wants to know I'm safe on days that the travel may be challenging due to weather or heavy seasonal traffic (fruit industry or tourist caravans), especially when I am on the Beemer.

As for our tech... I want her to know all the password information I have outside of my IT work stuff, and work has access to all of those. The main reason is if something does happen to me I need to know she has immediate access to all our finances and financial information... I had to help sort out all my Dad's when he passed away for my Mom and it was problematic even when 80% of theirs was paper. I don't wish any of those hurdles for Cindy.

Back to tracking... my attitude is if it is necessary for one, it is necessary for both, there cannot be a one-sided openness that allows a metered control of trust and mistrust. I personally don't care if my wife knows where I am at the time, it is easier to be truthful as it keeps speech simple and uncomplicated and a clear action of loving yourself more.

I know if I was being questioned relentlessly, I would wonder where her mind and actions were that would cause such suffering to overflow onto me, and would let her know I was not willing to be sucked into such and some serious boundaries would follow.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> I have been deceitful, I have lied, I have been selfish, been guilty, had regret and I need to put my ego aside, and there is a lack of trust." "I need to put my ego aside and show you that I love you. I am selfish and I am trying to protect myself from myself. Yes I need my private time, but not at your expense."


But I still want you to text me after 2 seconds!


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Big picture. You cater to her. She doesn’t cater to you. That’s how it’s worked for decades. She may acknowledge that she should work on changing — permanently, not temporarily — and not be so selfish, etc. but whether she actually does any of that is the real question.

Small picture. As to all the texting and locating, the two of you grew up without all of that just as I did. I wouldn’t consider it important. You obviously do and so she does but only when it applies to your promptness in answering her texts. You won’t win.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

OK, let me add some context. I will notice where she might be twice a day (which is probably an exaggeration) but it might come up once a week that I let her know that I know. One example a couple weeks ago- she was picking me up for work, and it was raining. Normally she'd text when in the parking lot that she's there. I know about what time she's coming so I just look at the car app, see where she is, and when close, close up the shop and meet her outside right as she arrives. And that bugs her.

If she had parked in the lot and I wasn't instantly ready to go? That's a big deal.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Big picture. You cater to her. She doesn’t cater to you. That’s how it’s worked for decades. She may acknowledge that she should work on changing — permanently, not temporarily — and not be so selfish, etc. but whether she actually does any of that is the real question.
> 
> Small picture. As to all the texting and locating, the two of you grew up without all of that just as I did. I wouldn’t consider it important. You obviously do and so she does but only when it applies to your promptness in answering her texts. You won’t win.


Well, sort of. You and I still grew up with phones and letters. Remember writing letters to someone? And the phone calls might have been like texts in that, in some cases, you could choose to have someone say you weren't home when the call came in. We think everything has changed so much, but the reality is that we're simply using different tools for the same purpose. In many, not all, cases.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> Well, sort of. You and I still grew up with phones and letters. Remember writing letters to someone? And the phone calls might have been like texts in that, in some cases, you could choose to have someone say you weren't home when the call came in. We think everything has changed so much, but the reality is that we're simply using different tools for the same purpose. In many, not all, cases.


I absolutely remember waiting for letters when I was in college. It was torture. Technology aside, in your wife’s case, it’s all about her and not about you. She’d be the same if we were still using carrier pigeons to deliver messages.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Casual Observer said:


> OK, let me add some context. I will notice where she might be twice a day (which is probably an exaggeration) but it might come up once a week that I let her know that I know. One example a couple weeks ago- she was picking me up for work, and it was raining. Normally she'd text when in the parking lot that she's there. I know about what time she's coming so I just look at the car app, see where she is, and when close, close up the shop and meet her outside right as she arrives. *And that bugs her.*
> 
> If she had parked in the lot and I wasn't instantly ready to go? That's a big deal.


Has she told you why?


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Casual Observer said:


> Pretty much this. But same for texting. She expects me to instantly answer but it’s ok if mine go for hours without reply.
> We're talking maybe once a year?
> 
> After her last meeting with the new therapist, my wife wrote a long letter of things she needs to work on and said "So, here is the round up: I have been deceitful, I have lied, I have been selfish, been guilty, had regret and I need to put my ego aside, and there is a lack of trust." "I need to put my ego aside and show you that I love you. I am selfish and I am trying to protect myself from myself. Yes I need my private time, but not at your expense."
> ...


Does this relate to what you discovered that occurred before you met?


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

I think your OP has been more than answered, this is more like a relationship between a parent and child. No offense. What I might have missed is in that letter she wrote, was had she been deceitful and lie about?

Has she been diagnosed with a mental disorder like BPD or NPD?


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> Does this relate to what you discovered that occurred before you met?





Al_Bundy said:


> I think your OP has been more than answered, this is more like a relationship between a parent and child. No offense. What I might have missed is in that letter she wrote, was had she been deceitful and lie about?
> 
> Has she been diagnosed with a mental disorder like BPD or NPD?


Yes, the letter mentioned is in regards to, not so much what was discovered to have gone on before we met, but the damage done by how she covered up, the patterns she got comfortable with (lying and deceit) that carried forward. The parent/child thing is definitely an issue, no question. Anytime one party is more accountable than the other, and accountability becomes an issue, that's a given. Didn't recognize the simplicity of this until now.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> OK, let me add some context. I will notice where she might be twice a day (which is probably an exaggeration) but it might come up once a week that I let her know that I know. One example a couple weeks ago- she was picking me up for work, and it was raining. Normally she'd text when in the parking lot that she's there. I know about what time she's coming so I just look at the car app, see where she is, and when close, close up the shop and meet her outside right as she arrives. And that bugs her.
> 
> If she had parked in the lot and I wasn't instantly ready to go? That's a big deal.


She sounds like a peach. Not. Why have you put up with being treated like this for so long? You could have shut down this kind of thing long ago.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

There's a book called No More Mister Nice Guy by Robert Glover. This one of several books I wish I had years ago. You sound like a nice guy, but the lack of boundaries has enabled her. Not saying you are responsible, but you did make it easier. Best of luck my friend.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> She sounds like a peach. Not. Why have you put up with being treated like this for so long? You could have shut down this kind of thing long ago.


Yes, she is a peach. But she is *my* peach.  
Had I known the extent of the lies and deceit, basically their origin, I would have simply left, long long ago, had she been reticent to change. But you go through life, you grow a business, you have kids, you adapt. Things build up, of course. But she picked just the right person, in me, to accomplish her goals. Someone 100% trustworthy and believing that's how someone else would be. But when the origin came into view? That's when the clock started running. 

She's made a commitment and she's beginning, not wanting to but beginning, to understand what it fees like to be me. She actually asked the other night if I had anybody in mind (a replacement). She once again suggested it's me that needs therapy, not her, to deal with all this. And I told her I've been through that and two different therapists said the same thing. "Maybe she's just not that much into you and never was." And that it's up to me how to deal with that. She does *not *want to believe the solution for me is to leave but she's beginning to see it could happen. She's beginning to get that, what I resent most, is my lack of agency back in the day. Her manipulation to marry me. And that what I want most, right now, is for her to recognize the magnitude of that deception/manipulation/lying back in the day, my inability to make an intelligent choice then, and that I am granted everything I need to make the right choice today.

She understands that's a tall order.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> BATTLESHIPS CONFIDE IN ME AND TELL ME WHERE YOU ARE
> (From "Yours is no disgrace" by YES... many years ago... were they onto something?)
> 
> Differing notions of privacy are an obvious issue for many. In my case, my wife knows where I am, 24/7. She can track me anytime I'm away from home via the Strava app, since I ride a bike everywhere, no car. Which I have no issue with. Other than when I'm commuting or training on my bike, I'm either at work or at home. I have virtually no free time anyway; everything's pretty structured.
> ...


Sounds like she is worried about you being faithful because she knows what she is capable of.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ABHale said:


> Sounds like she is worried about you being faithful because she knows what she is capable of.


I don't think so. She's got him wrapped around her finger and knows it. She merely expects him to jump the second she wants him to, is all.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> Validation? Nah, just wondering how common it is. At the heart of it, it's a "control" thing. She doesn't like to be held accountable and this is her way of controlling that. The question is, can you even touch something like this after so many years?


Yes, you can, if you really want to. Given what I've read on the first page, it doesn't seem like you really want to.

I don't think it's common at the level that your wife takes it, but common enough in a general sense. My husband and one wife (my legal one) both have an app (i forget the specific one) and we commonly call it the creepy stalker app. In jest of course. Both are aware of the other having it. I used to have it, but it was a power hog on my phone so I deleted it. But that was the only reason. In reality, we don't check on each other too much. If someone is significantly late, and not answering, we might look to see if they correspond to an accident. Or on a long trip to see if they have arrived yet, without disturbing them. We've found it really useful when traveling in multiple cars (we have to sometimes to carry all that we are taking, such as when we camp), and we get separated. Calls don't always do well when traveling but the GPS tends to keep up.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What she wants most of all is for you not to divorce her. She knows the odds of finding someone else this late In life who will indulge her the way you have are not good. So she says and does what she must in order to keep the status quo. But really major change at her age? That she makes because she realizes how much she deeply loves you? Sorry but I don’t see it.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

P.S.
Both those therapists were right, of course. You’ve always been much more into her than she’s been into you. That was obvious from the first thread of yours that I ran across. She’s fortunate that you’ve held on. Most wouldn’t.


----------



## TheGoodFather (Feb 12, 2021)

Seems like an issue of trust. Have you been unfaithful to her before? If yes, then it's just a case of paranoia caused by trauma. She needs professional therapy for that. If not, you've got to talk to her and ask what's with the double standard. Why does she value her privacy more than yours. Make it clear that the double standard doesn't sit well with you. Her answer will give you the clarity you need to move forward.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

TheGoodFather said:


> Seems like an issue of trust. Have you been unfaithful to her before? If yes, then it's just a case of paranoia caused by trauma. She needs professional therapy for that. If not, you've got to talk to her and ask what's with the double standard. Why does she value her privacy more than yours. Make it clear that the double standard doesn't sit well with you. Her answer will give you the clarity you need to move forward.


If you read his threads, you'd know that it's much more complicated than that, despite (this) being a simple problem.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I honestly don’t understand the problem. Stop looking at the tracking app unless you really need to know where she is. Personally I think that’s what it’s there for, not to watch her whereabouts every day. 

If she gets mad that you don’t text back right away that’s too bad. Just tell her that she does the same thing. Don’t not text her back because your getting back at her or being spiteful though. If she doesn’t text you back for a long time, you are allowed to be mad at her. You get that right? You are allowed to be mad at her.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The next time she gives you **** if you don't answer a text right away, say matter of factly: I answered as soon as I could. I'm not interested in continuing the double standard dynamic that exists. You often go hours without answering my texts, but you create conflict if I am unable to answer yours right away. I'm going to refuse to engage in any future conversation about this and will walk away if you speak to me rudely about it.


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@Casual Observer ,

So is her picking you up, and you having to mentally weigh the issue of how soon to appear by the car, a frequent occurrence?

Is it an issue every time she picks you up?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Maybe I missed some context but why is your wife picking you up for work? Do you drive?


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> @Casual Observer ,
> 
> So is her picking you up, and you having to mentally weigh the issue of how soon to appear by the car, a frequent occurrence?
> 
> Is it an issue every time she picks you up?





DudeInProgress said:


> Maybe I missed some context but why is your wife picking you up for work? Do you drive?


It's very rare that she'd pick me up from work; typically only if raining. Otherwise I commute by bike. No issue with me driving.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> It's very rare that she'd pick me up from work; typically only if raining. Otherwise I commute by bike. No issue with me driving.


So when you drive somewhere together, who typically drives?


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> So when you drive somewhere together, who typically drives?


Not sure what you’re trying to figure out here, but she prefers that I drive. What does that tell you? What would it have meant if she did all the driving?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> Not sure what you’re trying to figure out here, but she prefers that I drive. What does that tell you? What would it have meant if she did all the driving?


If she did all the driving it would be an indicator that the leadership dynamic in your marriage was even more out of balance than it already seems to be.

Do you recognize that you tend to frame a lot of things in terms of what SHE prefers/expects/wants...


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> If she did all the driving it would be an indicator that the leadership dynamic in your marriage was even more out of balance than it already seems to be.
> 
> Do you recognize that you tend to frame a lot of things in terms of what SHE prefers/expects/wants...


I’ve never hidden the fact that she’s done everything she can to live the life she prefers/expects/wants. And that she can’t see things from anyone else’s perspective. Changing that is a daunting task. Would be much easier if her issues were trauma-based but both her recent ICs believe that’s not the case.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> I’ve never hidden the fact that she’s done everything she can to live the life she prefers/expects/wants. And that she can’t see things from anyone else’s perspective. Changing that is a daunting task. Would be much easier if her issues were trauma-based but both her recent ICs believe that’s not the case.


But you’ve allowed it. Stop. Stop living in her frame and start operating in your own frame. Stop abiding her expectations and demands and start viewing and responding to them as either interesting, amusing or funny. Don’t worry about changing her, change YOU. She’ll either come around or she won’t.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> Would be much easier if her issues were trauma-based but both her recent ICs believe that’s not the case.


What happened to the premise that she was so distraught over not living within her religious guidelines that she developed amnesia surrounding the time she was acting out? That doesn't qualify as trauma?


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> What happened to the premise that she was so distraught over not living within her religious guidelines that she developed amnesia surrounding the time she was acting out? That doesn't qualify as trauma?


Surprisingly not. Either that or the therapists don’t believe that she can’t remember. I’m beginning to think the latter may be true. I’ve always had my doubts but the therapists have discounted that to me. They may not believe it themselves.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> What happened to the premise that she was so distraught over not living within her religious guidelines that she developed amnesia surrounding the time she was acting out? That doesn't qualify as trauma?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think what @Casual Observer means is that if it were a sexual assault trauma or a physical assault trauma (something like that) which resulted in her suppressing the memory, that there is a procedure that a therapist can kind of follow to address that mental health issue. But since it does not seem to be that sort of trauma--she essentially just ran around before CO and then the rest of her life denied that she behaved like that--that the therapists suspect a) DEEP-seated denial, but b) she likely remembers...just denies it! 

@Casual Observer, to get back to the topic at hand:

a) I think it might behoove you to check up on her on your app a little less. On the occasion it does sound like you're going a little overboard there. Even in a healthy relationship, Beloved Buddhist and I don't check that often, so just keep that in your back pocket--that it might be an idea to stretch yourself and grow a little in that way.

b) She CLEARLY has double standards, and that isn't healthy in a relationship. So you can try to force her to live to your standards (I guarantee you, this will not work)--or she can try to force you to live to her standards (she's doing this now, and you seem at least more willing to cave to her)--OR the two of you could sit down like mutually respectful adults and work on a Joint Agreement. A Joint Agreement means that it's written down that "as regards using the locator app and replying to text messages WE AGREE ON THIS: " and then you list what the two of you both agree to do. Honestly, it's between you and her, so you'all can come up with whatever agreement works for you! But the idea is that both YOU and HER agree to hold your own self accountable to following the agreement. You aren't the "locator app" police and neither is she. You aren't the "text reply" police and neither is she. You are an adult and you know what you believe is reasonable and agreeable...she is an adult and she knows what she believes is reasonable and agreeable. You BOTH keep hammering out the Joint Agreement until you both are able to enthusiastically say, "YES! I will hold myself to this!" And if it doesn't happen, there's not a huge argument or blame game or excuses--just pull out the agreement and re-iterate "We agreed to do this and that's why it's written down." Either she starts to actually hold her own self accountable to her agreements...OR SHE DOESN'T, and if she doesn't then that's when the counselor is involved and informed.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> Has she told you why?


Just re-asking this.

I can't help but notice the scenarios you mention only happen once in a blue moon or a couple times a year.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> I think what @Casual Observer means is that if it were a sexual assault trauma or a physical assault trauma (something like that) which resulted in her suppressing the memory, that there is a procedure that a therapist can kind of follow to address that mental health issue. But since it does not seem to be that sort of trauma--she essentially just ran around before CO and then the rest of her life denied that she behaved like that--that the therapists suspect a) DEEP-seated denial, but b) she likely remembers...just denies it!
> 
> @Casual Observer, to get back to the topic at hand:
> 
> ...


That's pretty much the direction her current therapist is trying to push her to. The important thing is that it's the therapist's idea, not mine. It's going to be tough for her because, as her therapist told her, she has some really peculiar issues with privacy that don't belong in a marriage. Not just the stuff she may or may not remember, but current stuff. There are so many things that "nobody needs to know that" is the answer to. And that's held up through many prior therapists too. The therapists didn't need to know this or that. 

I'm going to present the idea that mutually assured accountability is potentially an end-game that could end up as mutually-assured destruction. Because frankly, the biggest issue is that my wife doesn't take this seriously. She will for a day, but only when it's easy for her. She doesn't think she needs to work on this constantly. She gets into a repeating loop, the groundhog-day thing I've called it. Last night she brought up, again, that she thought we had been happily married couple for 40 years. And it's like... OK, so "happily married couple" is based entirely on her view, despite knowing the issues I've had with our relationship? Those don't count? We'd gone down this road a couple times, I explained it all quite clearly, how unfair it was to not factor in my thoughts. And she gets it. Until she says it again?


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, your issues don’t count as far as she’s concerned and never have. Some people are so self-absorbed that they aren’t capable of truly focusing on anything beyond them — or maybe they just don’t care to. All the therapy in the world isn’t going to make her be who you want her to be as long as she resists changing for more than a short period of time. She keeps hoping she can make you see your marriage the same way she does so you’ll stop pushing her to be someone she doesn’t really want to be. The one thing you have going for you with her is that she definitely doesn’t want a divorce. That‘s what makes her keep this process going. But true, permanent change? Very unlikely. I think you need another hobby.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Affaircare said:


> I think what @Casual Observer means is that if it were a sexual assault trauma or a physical assault trauma (something like that) which resulted in her suppressing the memory, that there is a procedure that a therapist can kind of follow to address that mental health issue. But since it does not seem to be that sort of trauma--she essentially just ran around before CO and then the rest of her life denied that she behaved like that--that the therapists suspect a) DEEP-seated denial, but b) she likely remembers...just denies it!
> 
> @Casual Observer, to get back to the topic at hand:
> 
> ...


Regarding section b) of the above:
I’m sorry but I think this is complete nonsense and terrible advise. If they were in a mutually respectful relationship and needed to work out tactical/logistical issues - maybe.

But they are not in a mutually respectful relationship, that’s the whole ****ing point. OP’s wife doesn’t respect him and doesn’t desire him as a man. And you can’t negotiate respect or desire. You can’t. So no, written, negotiated agreements will do nothing to fix OP’s situation here. Rearranging deck chairs on the titanic comes to mind.

The only hope OP has is to get out of his wife’s frame and into his own. He needs to take control of his situation and start leading his own life and his marriage. He needs stop appeasing his wife’s ******** and start acting confidently to his own standards. Maybe she comes around, maybe she doesn’t. But that’s a hell of a lot better than his current situation or trying to negotiate respect and desire with someone who doesn’t respect or desire you.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> For some reason, I thought of C.O.2


CO2... Is this a pun?


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> CO2... Is this a pun?


The 2 stands for spouse (of poster). It's MEM shorthand.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> The 2 stands for spouse (of poster). It's MEM shorthand.


I know... I thought it might have a double meaning...


----------



## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

Some people don't like being tracked or spyed on it is just a fact. It could be that she is not hiding something just doesn't like being followed. 
My wife and I don't care we have nothing to hide. Sometimes it great like you said if you see they are at store you can ask them to buy something you need.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> I was thinking similarly. If I was out and about and knew my husband regularly checked my location twice a day, admittedly, I'd find it off-putting. Thinking as to why I would, no offense intended @Casual Observer, I'm just sharing from my personality and world view; it wouldn't relate so much to viewing my location, rather it would be that I'd view him as quite... _needy. _And not in the way that appeals to me. There's also something to be said for a little bit of mystery, or exchanging with one another. Hypothetically, if I tried a new coffee place, he's going to hear about it as I like that we share details of our day. If he'd already looked at my location and beat me to it, that he knew I was there, well, that would feel strange and off-putting to me. That's my take.
> 
> In saying ALL of that, we do use the location app  ...not often, though. I view his location more than he would mine. And that's sometimes (not every time) when he's called out to emergencies; I'll have a look to see where he's at and can kind of gauge what's going on - well, aside from the time I saw him bouncing all over the place. I was listening to the communication feed but couldn't figure it out. I wondered what he was doing! When he got home, he was telling me what happened, and what he was doing to assist. Which made complete sense in relation to the bouncing dot. We were laughing together when I told him about it.
> 
> ...


Good response. 

I personally am very independent and hate to be 'mothered'.


----------

