# Parenting a Child with ADD



## 20yr

This is a new thread for a side topic that developed on my original thread. My S16 has pretty severe ADD and anxiety. It started to get difficult to manage in Grade 8 and he has been on a rollercoaster ever since with academic and social issues. 

@TheDudeLebowski has some very helpful perspective - sounds like he may be the grown-up version of my son! @alteDame has worked with children like my son so hopefully she can share some of her experiences. I'm sure we have a lot of other posters who have children with ADD, or have it themselves. Let's share our best ideas.

For me, medication was a big step. I really worried about whether it was the right idea. After trying a few medications, S16 is now on Mydayis. It is a newer drug and is supposed to smooth out the effects and can last up to 16 hours. He had been on a long-acting Adderral but that lasted maybe 8 hours and could result in a crash.

We are also working on his diet. He had been bingeing on sugary snacks when he was anxious. His weight has always been up and down. At the point where his mood and grades were at their worst, he was 225 lbs and I was finding candy wrappers under his bed (He would buy it at school. side complaint - schools should not sell candy in the bookstore!) Now he is trying to stick to high protein, low carb diet, down to 185 lbs, looks and feels good. The ADD meds do suppress appetite a bit but he had been eating from an emotional need more than hunger.

School starts this week so I am nervous about whether he can keep up his progress.


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## notmyjamie

20yr said:


> School starts this week so I am nervous about whether he can keep up his progress.


It's an interesting topic for sure, thanks for starting a new thread. Does he have plans for after school? He's got 2 years left, right? If he wants college now is the time to start doing really well. I'd say check in with him frequently about how he's feeling about school, life, etc. Some positive feedback for how far he's come wouldn't go amiss I'm sure.

As I said in the other thread, my daughter has some learning disabilities. She was tested in 3rd grade, is now a senior. At the time of testing they ruled out ADD but she is now thinking she might have a mild case of it. She's finding it harder and harder to focus. She toured a few colleges, one of which has a great program for kids with learning disabilities but you need recent testing so she will have to be retested. The program is enticing enough that she wants to do it even though it's a long process. 

Not sure how I'd feel about starting medicine on her this late in the game. I'd rather she commit to some dietary changes.


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## 20yr

notmyjamie said:


> It's an interesting topic for sure, thanks for starting a new thread. Does he have plans for after school? He's got 2 years left, right? If he wants college now is the time to start doing really well. I'd say check in with him frequently about how he's feeling about school, life, etc. Some positive feedback for how far he's come wouldn't go amiss I'm sure.
> 
> As I said in the other thread, my daughter has some learning disabilities. She was tested in 3rd grade, is now a senior. At the time of testing they ruled out ADD but she is now thinking she might have a mild case of it. She's finding it harder and harder to focus. She toured a few colleges, one of which has a great program for kids with learning disabilities but you need recent testing so she will have to be retested. The program is enticing enough that she wants to do it even though it's a long process.
> 
> Not sure how I'd feel about starting medicine on her this late in the game. I'd rather she commit to some dietary changes.


He has some plans but I am not sure whether he will stick with them. Last year he pretty much dropped out of all activities by the end of the year. I think the key is for him not to feel overloaded. He just cannot manage something like a full-time varsity sport. But, for this year he has expressed interest in intramural sports and 2 clubs (one only meets monthly).


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## Oldtimer

20 year, your situation is a tough one, but the good news is that it is controllable. Perhaps you may want to check out the list below and give it to him as a marker, not that he has to compare to them, more as people to look up to with the same problem who have gone beyond the norm and succeeded.

Michael Phelps. When this future Olympic champion was diagnosed with ADHD at age 9, his mom was his champion. ...
Justin Timberlake
will.i.am
Adam Levine
Howie Mandel
James Carville
Ty Pennington
These folks were all dx’d with add or adhd.

I have a son who was diagnosed with it early, unfortunately we did not have the resources that are available today. He sounds much like your son when he was in his early years. I can only shake my head now and ask why we didn’t have the foresight. I wish you the best and like Michael Phelps mom, be his champion.

OT


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## Taxman

We got that diagnosis when my youngest was in grade 3. The school had a psychologist, whose opinions were suspect, at least to me. Therefore, I invested in having him tested in a better facility than the school had suggested. Turned out that there was a mild form of ADD, however, that was not the problem. He was gifted in language and reading comprehension. He got it, and found the teachers moved too slow. The report that came from our psychologists, excoriated the board of education, and more specifically the principal and teacher of that school. No wonder that after the report was sent to the board I received a personal call from the principal asking if I would not mind withdrawing that report. His words; "After all, this isn't worth people losing their job" I replied, so branding my kid as learning disabled, when your teacher could not take ten seconds to see that my kid was months ahead of his peers, and was bored ****less by someone who is there for a paycheck rather than to educate. I wrote a scathing letter to the board. I then opted for private education. May have cost me a bundle, however, he shone. Went on to a school for the performing arts. Wrote, directed, produced and acted in several productions, was given advanced acceptance to university. Graduated at the top of his class. Is now working on computer animation. Yeah, this was the kid the school wanted to put into "Special Ed". 

Oh, BTW, the principal and teacher were assigned elsewhere. I did not follow up.


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## kag123

Hi 20yr- 

Thanks for starting the topic. I'll be following along. We are a few years behind you and just starting this journey ourselves. My 10 year old son was just diagnosed with ADHD "Inattentive Type" over the summer. He just started 5th grade. 

My son has always struggled with school. He's not hyperactive at all, he truly just zones out and stops paying attention a lot of the time. His brain gets overloaded and he stops listening. We have tried working with his teachers over the years to figure out what we could do to help him. We approached the school administration several times to ask for testing or even just a professional opinion on how to best help him and we got nowhere. Everyone just shrugged their shoulders and looked at me like - you're the mom, lady, YOU figure it out. I've always felt like I was failing him and he felt like he was failing me, because he knew I wanted him to do better in school. 

Last spring we decided to pursue psycho-educational testing on our own through a neuropsychologist. It cost an arm and a leg because it was not covered by health insurance. They spent four full days with my son administering various tests and provided us with a 30 page report at the end with all of his results, plus diagnoses. I was honestly skeptical and concerned about spending the money for the testing at first, but it was well worth every penny in my opinion. We saw on paper our sons exact strengths and weaknesses. He now has an official diagnosis of ADHD-I, along with two different learning disorders. It makes so much sense now why he struggles in certain subjects but not others, and with certain assignments but not others. I feel incredibly guilty for thinking he was just lazy all this time. 

He has a well above average IQ, and he completed knowledge of all subjects of that of a 16 year old. But, his disorders make it nearly impossible for him to convey that knowledge clearly on assignments. 

We decided to try medication. He started in early summer on a stimulant med and I worked with him over the summer on some school-type assignments to try to see if I could tell a difference with the meds. It is truly like night and day. Simple things like a math worksheet with 20 multiplication problems take him 30 mins to complete unmedicated, with lots of errors throughout. On meds, he is done in 5 mins and error-free. 

This will be his first year of school on meds. I am hopeful that they will help him feel more focused. For right now we are not pursuing any special supports for him in school (like an IEP), I wanted to see if the meds alone would be enough for him. I am holding my breath during these first few weeks of school to see if we are making any positive progress. 

I try to make sure I am supportive of my son, and try to make sure he knows how smart I think he is and how proud of him I am. I wish we had gotten him tested earlier as his confidence has already started to take a dive from struggling in school.  I am hoping this year can be a comeback year for him and lift his spirits. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## 20yr

kag123 said:


> This will be his first year of school on meds. I am hopeful that they will help him feel more focused. For right now we are not pursuing any special supports for him in school (like an IEP), I wanted to see if the meds alone would be enough for him. I am holding my breath during these first few weeks of school to see if we are making any positive progress.
> 
> I try to make sure I am supportive of my son, and try to make sure he knows how smart I think he is and how proud of him I am. I wish we had gotten him tested earlier as his confidence has already started to take a dive from struggling in school.  I am hoping this year can be a comeback year for him and lift his spirits.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You are likely to see a big difference on the meds. Even without an IEP it is helpful to let the school know that he has been diagnosed. Then you can check in with teachers to get reports. For example, I got great reports from some teachers about his attention but found he was losing it by last period. So, the doctors knew they needed to increase his dose. For good reason, they go slowly with increases. My son is a pretty big boy so they knew he was likely to need a higher dose but started small to watch for side effects.

I hope his year goes well.


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## kag123

20yr said:


> You are likely to see a big difference on the meds. Even without an IEP it is helpful to let the school know that he has been diagnosed. Then you can check in with teachers to get reports. For example, I got great reports from some teachers about his attention but found he was losing it by last period. So, the doctors knew they needed to increase his dose. For good reason, they go slowly with increases. My son is a pretty big boy so they knew he was likely to need a higher dose but started small to watch for side effects.
> 
> I hope his year goes well.


I'm glad to hear you speak positively about meds, because outside of his doctors I have truly received more negative feedback about it than positive. I think it stems from ignorance - I mean that in the truest sense of the word, simply not knowing any better - rather than malice. 

I explained to my son that his diagnosis is his to share, if he wants to. I am touchy around this subject because I suffer myself from anxiety and depression and I come from a family riddled with various mental health disorders. Yet, I was shamed by my parents growing up for my anxiety and depression. Told I was weak and that I needed to snap out of it. It took me until I had an absolute mental breakdown to try meds, and the meds really make an absolute difference for me. My whole life has changed since I started taking them. I truly don't think I would still be alive right now without them. 

Anyway - I am very open with my kids about my mental health and my meds (in an age-appropriate manner) because I do NOT want either of them to feel any sense of shame for needing help or being "different". So I am always very positive when speaking to my son about his meds, and try to let him lead the way on letting me know how they make him feel and if he wants to change them. 

He's not very forthcoming (a typical 10 yr old boy?) So I am doing my best to look for signs that they are working or not working. So far I've only seen positives. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## TheDudeLebowski

This thread has me in tears. I want to say more and will later. I'm supposed to be working right now and I'm a blithering idiot right now....

I just had to come on here and say real quick its not your fault @kag123 please dont beat yourself up. You caught it and paid attention. I've never known and I'm just finding all this stuff out right now. I've never known why I cant stay focused and my self esteem has been in the dumps my whole life. Your son will shine bright! I just know it


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## wilson

For school, there are many on-line options for grades K-12 now. You take the classes at home over the computer. If a child isn't fitting well in traditional school, an on-line alternative may be an option.


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## TheDudeLebowski

alte Dame said:


> Not showing work in problem solving is a signature of the ADD mind. Yes, they required you to make 'different steps,' i.e., they wanted you to model the standard operations, but your brain simply didn't problem solve this way. And they never formalized a model for you so you could actually show your work.
> 
> Explaining this to teachers is difficult. They think the kids cheat or just guess. They don't understand that the student doesn't have the operational model to describe how he/she solved the problem.
> 
> And ADD students should not be given daily homework. They need bigger assignments on a weekly or biweekly basis.
> 
> p.s. I also think that meds, correctly prescribed, are appropriate and game-changing for some of these students.
> 
> (I know this is something of a threadjack and will keep my fingers off the keyboard re this from now on.)



Put your fingers back on that keyboard. I would love to hear more.


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## Bluesclues

kag123 said:


> 20yr said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are likely to see a big difference on the meds. Even without an IEP it is helpful to let the school know that he has been diagnosed. Then you can check in with teachers to get reports. For example, I got great reports from some teachers about his attention but found he was losing it by last period. So, the doctors knew they needed to increase his dose. For good reason, they go slowly with increases. My son is a pretty big boy so they knew he was likely to need a higher dose but started small to watch for side effects.
> 
> I hope his year goes well.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad to hear you speak positively about meds, because outside of his doctors I have truly received more negative feedback about it than positive. I think it stems from ignorance - I mean that in the truest sense of the word, simply not knowing any better - rather than malice.
> 
> I explained to my son that his diagnosis is his to share, if he wants to. I am touchy around this subject because I suffer myself from anxiety and depression and I come from a family riddled with various mental health disorders. Yet, I was shamed by my parents growing up for my anxiety and depression. Told I was weak and that I needed to snap out of it. It took me until I had an absolute mental breakdown to try meds, and the meds really make an absolute difference for me. My whole life has changed since I started taking them. I truly don't think I would still be alive right now without them.
> 
> Anyway - I am very open with my kids about my mental health and my meds (in an age-appropriate manner) because I do NOT want either of them to feel any sense of shame for needing help or being "different". So I am always very positive when speaking to my son about his meds, and try to let him lead the way on letting me know how they make him feel and if he wants to change them.
> 
> He's not very forthcoming (a typical 10 yr old boy?) So I am doing my best to look for signs that they are working or not working. So far I've only seen positives.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My son was put on an antidepressant when he was in 5th grade. Given the warnings for people younger than 18 we went back and forth on that for quite awhile before deciding it was worth the risks. He had been seeing a therapist he loved for several years since our divorce but continued to make statements like “I want to kill myself” at school. Let me tell you how heart wrenching it is for your child to say those words. I assumed it was because of our family breaking up, it wasn’t. He was able to convey to us that he didn’t really want to kill himself, that he used it as a phrase to mean he “wanted a do over” or wanted his current feelings to stop. The antidepressants helped in the sense that he used that expression much less frequently, but he still said it. 

In 6th grade some of his teachers reported that he would frequently zone out He was getting 100’s on tests but was doing poorly in some of his classes because he would do homework but not turn it in. At this point we had him tested and he was diagnosed with ADD. We again agonized over adding a medication for him. He was put on Concerta (Ritalin) and the change in him was amazing. He has never uttered another suicidal word and has no recollection of ever doing so. He hasn’t had any side effects that he has relayed to us. Sometimes he eats a ton and sleeps a ton and then doesn’t eat, but that seems to be aligned with growth spurts and not the medication (though he has grown many inches and pounds since he started - maybe I should ask about a dosage change?)

He is just starting 9th grade now and is a normal 14 1/2 yr old boy - moody, salty, lovey, happy, sleepy, goofy - and good student. Like @20yr ‘s son, to-date he has not been able to handle an organized sport that practices daily. It is sort of funny that he can and does do multiple rec sports and clubs that take up the same time commitment in a week as an official school team sport would. Must be the diversity? He did express interest in trying out for the high school baseball team this year though. 

Cost of medications hasn’t been mentioned yet. We are on a high deductible plan through my husband. They won’t allow a generic for my son’s ADD medication so we pay $250/mo for it until the deductible of $5,600 is met. I have my HSA set up to cover the cost but it is still an ouch. We discussed changing his meds to something else that allows a generic but the difference in cost wasn’t enough to justify switching. It is worth it but crazy.


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## kag123

Our son is on a medication called Quillavent (active ingredient; methylphenidate). Its a stimulant. His doctor gave us a coupon for it that we take to the pharmacy each month, with the coupon our total out of pocket cost is $20/month. I have no idea how the doc got the coupon but I am incredibly grateful for it! I wonder if there are coupons for other stimulant meds? 

I suspect he has anxiety as well, I see so much of myself in him. I am keeping a close eye on him (and my daughter who also has those tendencies).

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## TheDudeLebowski

The number of fights I've had with my wife because she's talking to me, and I'm looking right at her, and I dont hear a word she says.... 

I think about all my negative thought patterns directed at my self and it all stems from not being disciplined. All the times you are told "your smart, but your problem is you are just lazy. You are going to throw your life away because you have no discipline" and I have tried to do things I think I want to do like write a book. Actually a series. I have all these ideas and characters, plot lines, but I cant focus long enough and I'll start writing then I think of something else and I cant get back to what I was doing so I just give up. Then I tell myself I'm just a POS who cant even do something I WANT to do... 

This has been such a crazy few months. I dont know how much I can help here other than if you see behaviors that alarm you maybe I can offer some perspective.


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## kag123

Speaking of extra-curricular stuff.. 

We've always tried to get our kids involved in *something* outside of school. I always thought it was good for them to stay active after sitting at a desk all day and a good way to socialize/make friends. My daughter has her plate so full with activities and sports that I've had to force her to drop some of them, because she literally didn't have time to sleep. She loves everything she tries. 

My son currently plays fall soccer for a rec league. He says he enjoys it, so this is the second year he is playing. He's definitely one the least coordinated/athletic kids on the team, and I see him make a lot of mistakes on the field (but I never say anything to him about it), but he doesn't seem to care and he loves it. I am happy that he is happy. Deep down I am worried that the other kids on the team will be mean to him. I've seen him get some nasty looks and exasperated sighs at times from other players when he misses a play or makes a mistake. Hurts my heart! But, boys don't seem to hold a grudge like girls do and in the next minute it's all good between everyone. 

I tried getting him into other sports - hard no. I offered other activities that did not involve sports - no. 

I am considering seeing if he will play on an indoor soccer league over the winter. I just want him to find something he loves and stick with it, but I am not sure that is going to happen. 

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## TheDudeLebowski

Moving from interest to interest is part of the package. See if there's things he does that fall under a particular umbrella. When they want to give up, just make them finish that year or semester or league or whatever. Just have them finish it and tell them it's great that they can say when they dont like anything anymore, but it's even better that they stuck with it to the end and it shows they aren't quitters. Lots of praise just for finishing something.


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## notmyjamie

TheDudeLebowski said:


> The number of fights I've had with my wife because she's talking to me, and I'm looking right at her, and I dont hear a word she says....
> 
> I think about all my negative thought patterns directed at my self and it all stems from not being disciplined. All the times you are told "your smart, but your problem is you are just lazy. You are going to throw your life away because you have no discipline" and I have tried to do things I think I want to do like write a book. Actually a series. I have all these ideas and characters, plot lines, but I cant focus long enough and I'll start writing then I think of something else and I cant get back to what I was doing so I just give up. Then I tell myself I'm just a POS who cant even do something I WANT to do...
> 
> This has been such a crazy few months. I dont know how much I can help here other than if you see behaviors that alarm you maybe I can offer some perspective.


To that I would say that you are not lazy or a POS at all. Your brain just works differently than most people's brains. I tell my daughter that all the time. She has some learning disabilities...severe short term memory deficit for example. She's learned to work around it as much as possible. You just need to learn to work around your different brain too. It can be done. I know you hate medications so do some research on non pharmacological treatments for ADD. There are many of them that could probably help you quite a bit. 

We all have strengths and weaknesses in life...we have to learn to work with them. Easier said than done, I know. But it's time to stop berating and hating yourself for something you can't control.


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## notmyjamie

Bluesclues said:


> In 6th grade some of his teachers reported that he would frequently zone out He was getting 100’s on tests but was doing poorly in some of his classes because he would do homework but not turn it in. At this point we had him tested and he was diagnosed with ADD. We again agonized over adding a medication for him. He was put on Concerta (Ritalin) and the change in him was amazing. He has never uttered another suicidal word and has no recollection of ever doing so. He hasn’t had any side effects that he has relayed to us. Sometimes he eats a ton and sleeps a ton and then doesn’t eat, but that seems to be aligned with growth spurts and not the medication (though he has grown many inches and pounds since he started - maybe I should ask about a dosage change?)


I would definitely ask about a dosage change if he's grown so much. It really can make a big difference. My youngest is on an antidepressant and after a big growth spurt last year she had a lot of problems. We increased her dosage and she's doing much better again. 

Also, I have tried to respond to your message but your account is set up to not accept private messages. I can answer your question here if you want or change your settings and let me know!! :smile2:


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## TheDudeLebowski

notmyjamie said:


> To that I would say that you are not lazy or a POS at all. Your brain just works differently than most people's brains. I tell my daughter that all the time. She has some learning disabilities...severe short term memory deficit for example. She's learned to work around it as much as possible. You just need to learn to work around your different brain too. It can be done. I know you hate medications so do some research on non pharmacological treatments for ADD. There are many of them that could probably help you quite a bit.
> 
> We all have strengths and weaknesses in life...we have to learn to work with them. Easier said than done, I know. But it's time to stop berating and hating yourself for something you can't control.


I just never knew. I keep looking at everything under this new light and I'm just blown away by how much it all resonates with me. I texted my mom last night about it and she just responded back a few minutes ago. She was saying she always thought it was interesting that some classes I would be engaged. I can remember a couple of teachers in particular that I could sit and listen to and participate and I always got good grades in those classes. Then other teachers, they let my mom know I was a problem child and how she's not a good mom and stuff like that. My mom always said "no, you're not a good teacher" lol. I got terrible grades and had no respect for these teachers at all. I've always had a hard time with authority unless I respected them, which is very few people. "These guys dont know what they are talking about" and I lash out at them haha. My bosses have had to put up with that but I care about the work I do even when I hate it, I want to work hard and I do. So they just dealt with my tirades and tantrums and then as quick as that stuff comes, two days later I would be back to normal again with them and gosh I wonder what they must think of me. :laugh: 

The ADD comment on my thread was like a month ago maybe? I treated it as a throw away. I did the tests and thought "hmmmm that is interesting, maybe I have it." But then I quickly moved on. Seemed unimportant. It always takes me so long to digest things and see them properly and I said that in the OP of my thread to not feel as if I dismiss what you say because I don't. Takes a while for stuff to sink in with me. 

This thread is also making me change my mind on medicines. What if I was diagnosed as a kid and was properly treated? Maybe I wouldn't have dropped out. Maybe I could have gone on to be something. But I cant dwell on that now, it's just pain shopping so I'm not going there. It is what it is and I can't change that but I want to change now and that's all that matters. That's why I was in tears yesterday reading this. I went pain shopping down in the past because I'm so used to doing that. Triggered me to open up to my wife and seek help and support from her as well. Like always she's there with open arms and I dont know why I think people will just abandon me if i let them in. People haven't abandoned me, I've abandoned them and my inner child. 

I was thinking about that this morning as my mind ever races around and I was thinking how I've silenced the child in me for decades. The little boy who wants to share his life. The little boy who cries when he's hurt. The little boy who keeps me filled with love and wonder. I locked him away and felt nothing for years and now I'm letting him back out and it's like decades of shut away emotions are starting to flood out of me and I'm on the edge of tears at any moment. So many things just get my throat closed up and my eyes watering and I keep fighting it back but I'm feeling it all again. And it's beautiful and its painful and I'm alive and i cant believe I've shut all this away for so long and I'm in so much debt to you guys I just cant ever tell you how much you all mean to me. 

So anyway I googled inner child to read about it and started to but I got distracted by the photos at the top so I started thumbing through them and I found this image... https://images.app.goo.gl/5x89i6zLzVW9ypVu7

... and that set me off into tears. 

Oh man. I was reading more about add/adhd and it was talking about going off on tangents and I'm doing it now! I must be the thread jack king around here. Sorry about that everyone. The good thing is I'm laughing to myself right now it's like out of body... Dude, you are doing it again! And it's funny because it's like this clarity is suddenly hitting me and I sometimes laugh at it and sometimes cry but it's just clarity. Like everything is suddenly starting to make sense in my life. How strange a feeling. 

Must. Stop. Typing...


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## Bluesclues

notmyjamie said:


> I would definitely ask about a dosage change if he's grown so much. It really can make a big difference. My youngest is on an antidepressant and after a big growth spurt last year she had a lot of problems. We increased her dosage and she's doing much better again.
> 
> Also, I have tried to respond to your message but your account is set up to not accept private messages. I can answer your question here if you want or change your settings and let me know!! :smile2:


Hmmm, it says I am set to receive them so no idea how to fix that - if you don't mind sharing, here is fine!


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## alte Dame

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Moving from interest to interest is part of the package.


This is also part of the pedagogical solution.

I have found that sequeing from topic to connected topic with an ADD student is a good way to actually get the material in the head of the student, and to actually have it remembered.

For example, in my Latin II class for kids with learning differences, incl. ADD, a typical lesson plan is:

- 5 min. - look at new Latin vocabulary and note grammar as well as English cognates.
- 10 min. - dictionary/grammar exercises where kids use their own books.
- 10 min. - translation of some Caesar with some of the new vocabulary.
- 5 min. - look at map of Roman empire showing Caesar's conquests.
- 10 min. - expose students to other European languages related to Latin, in this case some of the Celtic languages.
- 10 min. - segue to modern language info, incl. Romance languages.
- rest of period - set up and play Stratego game - including accompanying music and snacks - where two teams set up their boards, one like Caesar's troops, the other like the Gauls.

With my private students, this can be more free flowing, e.g.:

- Listen to snippet of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.
- Use dictionary to define 'motif.'
- Find the motif in the symphony.
- Describe and look at Morse code.
- Find the corollary in the Morse code to the motif in Beethoven's Fifth.
- Note that this is the letter 'V.'
- Play the BBC's V for Victory from WWII.
- Connect all the dots by reading the history of using Beethoven to signal victory.

Next topic!

Anyway, with ADD kids, the focus is either very fleeting or very intense. If they have to be in a situation where they have to be focused, then being guided by someone like me is a big help. If they are on their own and have a choice of situations, then they should choose something that captures their minds. This latter is how I advise them for college and career. They ideally pick something that they can focus intensely on. This is often what we would consider a vocational track, but includes lots of modern tech career paths.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Yes! The thing is its not that I'm not interested I just get too interested and I want to know every detail. I can be reading or watching a video or whatever and I'll see something that pulls my attention away but it's not really pulled away, it's just shifted over to this new thing. So I'll stop reading or pause the video and look into this new topic for a while. Sometimes I go back and finish reading or watching the original video and sometimes I don't. Depends on how far I keep getting sidetracked. If the sidetrack is quick I can usually go back to what I was doing. Sometimes the sidetrack leads to another sidetrack and then to another and i forget all about how i got there in the first place.

The results are I know a little bit about a LOT of things. My wife's always like "how do you know about that?" When we discuss different stuff shes blown away that I seem to know stuff on so many subjects. But I dont know a lot I just know a little bit about it. I always told her "my mind seems to only retain useless information" because I'm not doing anything with this stuff. I just know about it or I'm aware of it.

ETA: I also do this thing where when I post, I'll reread what I wrote several times over again. Is that normal? Same with texts. I'll text someone then I read it over and over and a lot of times I'll think of things I missed. Sometimes I let it go sometimes I dont and sometimes I force myself to just let it go and do something else.


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## alte Dame

My sense is that your habits are quite typical. Reading things over and over after you've written them is likely because you haven't mentally let go of the topic yet. (My students can drive me to drink with the time they take 'crafting' the perfect response to a 2-point homework question.)

I think it's important to tie all the disparate stuff together as much as you can, either by field or general topic. This way, your knowledge doesn't feel like it's an inch deep. And it won't be. It will take you longer to master chemistry this way, for example, but you can achieve an acceptably deep understanding.

Can I ask you, Dude, what you do for a living?


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## notmyjamie

Bluesclues said:


> Hmmm, it says I am set to receive them so no idea how to fix that - if you don't mind sharing, here is fine!


*This answer is to a question Blueclues asked me in private about what college my daughter is interested in that has a special program for kids with learning disabilities. I was not able to send my answer in private so here it is: 
*

I am in Massachusetts. We toured Westfield State College. My daughter's GPA is not good, 2.5 I think and her SAT scores were not good at all. She has a severe short term memory deficit along with some coding and encoding issues and possibly some mild ADD. Their program for people with disabilities focuses on tutoring and such. As someone with a documented disability she would not have to submit an SAT result which is very helpful as she doesn't test well at all. One reason she was so interested was that the admissions counselor basically said that in a kid like her, they assume a low GPA means her school was not teaching her to her potential and they feel their program can do a much better job of helping her to be successful. I feel this is very true in her case.

She is not someone who can learn by just reading a book. She needs a teacher who actually teaches the material to her. Her entire junior year all her teachers had the kids read on their own and then tested them on what they read. It was a very tough year for her. The tutoring opportunities at Westfield sound very good and my daughter responds well to tutors. I hired some this past year after her grades tanked first term. 

Your disability has to have been documented within the last 3 years. My daughter was tested 7 years ago but she is so interested in this program that she asked me to have the school retest her. It's a very long process to get fully tested. The fact that she's willing to do this really show how much she thinks their program can help her.

If the admissions counselor said anything about programs for helping ASD kids I didn't really pay attention as that is not her issue, I'm sorry. I just really liked their entire attitude about learning disabilities so I think it's worth you checking out. A dance classmate of my daughter has ASD and she is going to Westfield. Knowing what I know of her Mom, I'm going to guess it's because they have a good program to help her. 

Good luck, let me know how it goes!


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## TheDudeLebowski

alte Dame said:


> Can I ask you, Dude, what you do for a living?


Right now, delivery but I'm just getting into this new field. I was in sales for a long time before that. Retail, commission sales, retail management. Right now all I do is deliver amazon packages and I truly love it. They moved me to this lead driver position and it requires I sit still and I cant stand it. I told them last night to move me back to driver. I made it 3 weeks doing this and I just couldn't. It's a step to move up but it's not worth it. I was miserable. I'm fine being broke. I cant stand just sitting there I was losing my mind. 

Delivery sounds repetitive, and theres aspects that are, but every day my route is different and I control everything. I dont control the number of packages or the addresses on them, but everything else is in my control. If I want to take lunch at 6pm or 12pm doesn't matter. If I want to deliver to businesses first or last, doesn't matter. All that matters is I deliver the packages accurately and efficiently and follow some very simple rules. Scan where I'm dropping the package, mark the deliveries correctly, take good pictures of where I'm leaving the packages, try and reduce theft by hiding them well. That's about it. The rest is up to me in how I want to do it. Every day is a new little adventure through the city and i just love it. Different buildings, different neighborhoods, I get a lot of physical exercise, I listen to whatever I want on the radio. If i need to stop just do something else for a minute I can at any time i want so long as I stay on schedule overall, nobody says anything to me ever. 

If you have some college age students who want a part time job, this is it. Even full time its four 10+ hour days so you get 3 days off per week. Great for a college student. Great for someone like me. 

Yep, theres people in the world who truly enjoy this grunt work. It's a blast and I've been doing it for 6 months now. Not tired of it at all. Cant wait to drive again, that lead roll was a nightmare! I told my boss it feels like I'm being punished. Like I got a pay raise and a demotion simultaneously.


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## alte Dame

I especially like Beacon College in Florida:

https://www.beaconcollege.edu

Landmark College in Vermont and Mitchell in Connecticut are also good, imo.

Lots of colleges/universities have special programs for LD students, e.g.:

U of Iowa – REACH Program
U of Arizona, Tucson - Strategic Alternative Learning Techniques Center (SALT Center)
RIT, NY – Targeted tutoring and support for technical BS
U of Denver - The Learning Effectiveness Program
U of Connecticut - Beyond Access Program 
Lynn U, FL – Institute for Achievement & Learning


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## alte Dame

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Right now, delivery but I'm just getting into this new field. I was in sales for a long time before that. Retail, commission sales, retail management. Right now all I do is deliver amazon packages and I truly love it. They moved me to this lead driver position and it requires I sit still and I cant stand it. I told them last night to move me back to driver. I made it 3 weeks doing this and I just couldn't. It's a step to move up but it's not worth it. I was miserable. I'm fine being broke. I cant stand just sitting there I was losing my mind.
> 
> Delivery sounds repetitive, and theres aspects that are, but every day my route is different and I control everything. I dont control the number of packages or the addresses on them, but everything else is in my control. If I want to take lunch at 6pm or 12pm doesn't matter. If I want to deliver to businesses first or last, doesn't matter. All that matters is I deliver the packages accurately and efficiently and follow some very simple rules. Scan where I'm dropping the package, mark the deliveries correctly, take good pictures of where I'm leaving the packages, try and reduce theft by hiding them well. That's about it. The rest is up to me in how I want to do it. Every day is a new little adventure through the city and i just love it. Different buildings, different neighborhoods, I get a lot of physical exercise, I listen to whatever I want on the radio. If i need to stop just do something else for a minute I can at any time i want so long as I stay on schedule overall, nobody says anything to me ever.
> 
> If you have some college age students who want a part time job, this is it. Even full time its four 10+ hour days so you get 3 days off per week. Great for a college student. Great for someone like me.
> 
> Yep, theres people in the world who truly enjoy this grunt work. It's a blast and I've been doing it for 6 months now. Not tired of it at all. Cant wait to drive again, that lead roll was a nightmare! I told my boss it feels like I'm being punished. Like I got a pay raise and a demotion simultaneously.


This sort of job is actually exactly what I'm talking about. A father of one of my students has adult ADD. He suffered in his work for years, got laid off, and went to work in an Amazon warehouse stocking shelves and filling orders. He is SO happy now. He's in his late fifties and says it's the first time in his life that he looks forward to work.

Every job is noble. Every job requires us to use our brains. Finding the job that maps to your brain is a challenge, but can be done.


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## TheDudeLebowski

alte Dame said:


> This sort of job is actually exactly what I'm talking about. A father of one of my students has adult ADD. He suffered in his work for years, got laid off, and went to work in an Amazon warehouse stocking shelves and filling orders. He is SO happy now. He's in his late fifties and says it's the first time in his life that he looks forward to work.
> 
> Every job is noble. Every job requires us to use our brains. Finding the job that maps to your brain is a challenge, but can be done.


I know how he feels. The lead driver position, I would come in later. Do rescue which is some driver is running behind so I meet up and take 25-40 stops from them. Which was fine. Or I would do an audit where I show up and watch them, make sure they are securing their vans because we had a van stolen on route the driver got out to drop a package at an apartment and they were watching him. Jumped in his van, took off, and stole everything. Lol. So we make sure that doesn't happen again. Or I would do a quick ride along with new drivers mid day. See how they are doing things and train them to be more efficient. All these things are ok. However, at about 5:00 I had to make my way over to where we park the vans. Then I just sat there in a parking lot waiting for the 40 or so drivers to come back in where i would inspect their vans for damage and take the keys and gas cards and such. 

I would tell drivers this job sucks because they thought I had it made. I was getting paid to literally just sit there. I told them "do me a favor and go park in a parking lot somewhere. Then just sit there for 5-7 hours. Then come back and tell me how awesome that experience was. Then do it 4 nights a week!" I think that sunk in for some people. But many were like "you can watch videos or do whatever" so hopefully someone else will take it and love it. I was losing my mind out there!


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## alte Dame

Yes, you are living the approach that I use to teach - you are chaining one activity to the next, all of them related in some way to one another. In this process, you don't lose your focus and you learn a lot about the industry and job.


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## personofinterest

Taxman said:


> We got that diagnosis when my youngest was in grade 3. The school had a psychologist, whose opinions were suspect, at least to me. Therefore, I invested in having him tested in a better facility than the school had suggested. Turned out that there was a mild form of ADD, however, that was not the problem. He was gifted in language and reading comprehension. He got it, and found the teachers moved too slow. The report that came from our psychologists, excoriated the board of education, and more specifically the principal and teacher of that school. No wonder that after the report was sent to the board I received a personal call from the principal asking if I would not mind withdrawing that report. His words; "After all, this isn't worth people losing their job" I replied, so branding my kid as learning disabled, when your teacher could not take ten seconds to see that my kid was months ahead of his peers, and was bored ****less by someone who is there for a paycheck rather than to educate. I wrote a scathing letter to the board. I then opted for private education. May have cost me a bundle, however, he shone. Went on to a school for the performing arts. Wrote, directed, produced and acted in several productions, was given advanced acceptance to university. Graduated at the top of his class. Is now working on computer animation. Yeah, this was the kid the school wanted to put into "Special Ed".
> 
> Oh, BTW, the principal and teacher were assigned elsewhere. I did not follow up.


I have a few questions

1. This is more of a statement. Technically ADD is not a learning disability. Dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. are learning disabilities.

2. Do you believe that if a child is bored because they are smart, it exucses disrupting the classroom?

3. Have you ever spent a year teaching in a classroom of 25-30 students who all have individual learning styles, 3 have IEP's, 1 has an emotional disorder, and 2 have ODD?

4. Does your child get to disrespect adults because he is bored or happens to be bright?

Just wondering


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## Tasorundo

My son is 15 and takes the lowest dose of AdderalXL on school days. We do not use it on weekends/holidays/summer. He started that when he was in 7th grade. Prior to that, he was on Intuniv. We should have stopped the intuniv long ago as it was helping with some things, but making new problems that were gradual and we didn't notice.

He was diagnosed with ADHD and impulsivity issues. I cannot count the number of times he has done something just bizarre and random and then had no idea why he did it. The thought of not doing the thing just never occurred to him.

We kept him off of meds for a few years after diagnosis, and it was manageable while he was in a montesori school. When we transitioned to public school, it was not.

He doesn't mind taking the meds, but would prefer not to. If it wasn't for his impulsivity without them, he could do ok. He is an very advanced program in highschool and has almost been kicked out already for doing something stupid on a day he didn't take the Adderall.


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## 20yr

Tasorundo said:


> My son is 15 and takes the lowest dose of AdderalXL on school days. We do not use it on weekends/holidays/summer. He started that when he was in 7th grade. Prior to that, he was on Intuniv. We should have stopped the intuniv long ago as it was helping with some things, but making new problems that were gradual and we didn't notice.
> 
> He was diagnosed with ADHD and impulsivity issues. I cannot count the number of times he has done something just bizarre and random and then had no idea why he did it. The thought of not doing the thing just never occurred to him.
> 
> We kept him off of meds for a few years after diagnosis, and it was manageable while he was in a montesori school. When we transitioned to public school, it was not.
> 
> He doesn't mind taking the meds, but would prefer not to. If it wasn't for his impulsivity without them, he could do ok. He is an very advanced program in highschool and has almost been kicked out already for doing something stupid on a day he didn't take the Adderall.


S16 only rarely takes a break from the meds because they do help with his impulsive tendencies. He would also do random things and not know why, say something that he shouldn't. It cost him some friendships. It seems counterintuitive but with the ADD, even though the medication is a stimulant, it actually slows him down so he can think before he acts and focus on what he should be doing.


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## alte Dame

ADD is grouped with issues like dyslexia as a 'learning difference.' Typically, ADD patterns with certain types of dyslexia. Schools and colleges regularly include ADD in their LD programs. Most ADD students can be taught effectively, both in their academics and social skills. In my experience, it's when it presents with oppositional behavior that it's almost insurmountable.


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## alte Dame

Tasorundo said:


> My son is 15 and takes the lowest dose of AdderalXL on school days. We do not use it on weekends/holidays/summer. He started that when he was in 7th grade. Prior to that, he was on Intuniv. We should have stopped the intuniv long ago as it was helping with some things, but making new problems that were gradual and we didn't notice.
> 
> He was diagnosed with ADHD and impulsivity issues. I cannot count the number of times he has done something just bizarre and random and then had no idea why he did it. The thought of not doing the thing just never occurred to him.
> 
> We kept him off of meds for a few years after diagnosis, and it was manageable while he was in a montesori school. When we transitioned to public school, it was not.
> 
> He doesn't mind taking the meds, but would prefer not to. If it wasn't for his impulsivity without them, he could do ok. He is an very advanced program in highschool and has almost been kicked out already for doing something stupid on a day he didn't take the Adderall.


If it helps any, the inappropriate behavior due to impulsivity tends to decrease with age.


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## Taxman

1 Correct
2 He was not disruptive, he was caught by the teacher reading elsewhere. He had finished, and read on. The teacher interpreted this as him disobeying her. She referred him to the school psychologist, whose degree was questionable at best. If my son had been disruptive that would be another behavior altogether.
3 I have only taught adults, 
4 My son and daughter have been taught to be polite. They never show disrespect to ANYONE. My two wield their intellect as a weapon when necessary.


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## Tasorundo

20yr said:


> S16 only rarely takes a break from the meds because they do help with his impulsive tendencies. He would also do random things and not know why, say something that he shouldn't. It cost him some friendships. It seems counterintuitive but with the ADD, even though the medication is a stimulant, it actually slows him down so he can think before he acts and focus on what he should be doing.


My son is similar. I work in medicinal chemistry and was worried about him being on meds when he was really young. My wife is a SLP and she knew he was ADD from a very young age, but we worked on managing it as best we could. He is definitely slower on the adderall than when he doesn't take it.



alte Dame said:


> If it helps any, the inappropriate behavior due to impulsivity tends to decrease with age.


He has gotten better at it and that is mostly how is able to not take it sometimes. We have a collection of home video clips from when he was young. We watched it one time all together and my son was shocked at how he acted in them.


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## kag123

Tasorundo said:


> My son is 15 and takes the lowest dose of AdderalXL on school days. We do not use it on weekends/holidays/summer. He started that when he was in 7th grade. Prior to that, he was on Intuniv. We should have stopped the intuniv long ago as it was helping with some things, but making new problems that were gradual and we didn't notice.
> 
> He was diagnosed with ADHD and impulsivity issues. I cannot count the number of times he has done something just bizarre and random and then had no idea why he did it. The thought of not doing the thing just never occurred to him.
> 
> We kept him off of meds for a few years after diagnosis, and it was manageable while he was in a montesori school. When we transitioned to public school, it was not.
> 
> He doesn't mind taking the meds, but would prefer not to. If it wasn't for his impulsivity without them, he could do ok. He is an very advanced program in highschool and has almost been kicked out already for doing something stupid on a day he didn't take the Adderall.


Do you mind sharing why your son would prefer not to take the meds?

I've been trying to get my son to tell me if they make him feel any different, but its like talking to a brick wall lol. I can notice some positive changes when he is medicated so as long as it isn't actively bothering him/causing side effects I will keep him on it. 



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Tasorundo

kag123 said:


> Do you mind sharing why your son would prefer not to take the meds?
> 
> I've been trying to get my son to tell me if they make him feel any different, but its like talking to a brick wall lol. I can notice some positive changes when he is medicated so as long as it isn't actively bothering him/causing side effects I will keep him on it.


There have been times when he has said he wants to take them and times he doesn't. For the times he doesn't, I think it has to do with not feeling like himself, or feeling like he is broken. When he has said he wants to take them is usually after a period where he felt out of control and wanted to be more in control. I think it is a balance really.

He does not mind taking them, but he would prefer not to. I think a part of him also has more fun off the meds, because he doesn't take time to consider anyone else or consequences, so he can just do what he wants, guilt free.


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## 20yr

kag123 said:


> Do you mind sharing why your son would prefer not to take the meds?
> 
> I've been trying to get my son to tell me if they make him feel any different, but its like talking to a brick wall lol. I can notice some positive changes when he is medicated so as long as it isn't actively bothering him/causing side effects I will keep him on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


It can be a balance between the ADD and anxiety. S16 was on Concerta but it aggravated his anxiety - he started twisting his hair and made a bald spot! It took a while to realize that it was the medication. With the Adderall XL, he felt almost a crash as it wore off. 

I have heard some kids say the medication makes them feel flat and not like themselves but that has not been the case with S16. 

Another side effect to watch is appetite. If they really can't eat anything, that is not good. S16 has less of an appetite at lunch but he still eats. 

Boys can be tough - you may need to watch him for behaviors that he may not report to you.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> I think a part of him also has more fun off the meds, because he doesn't take time to consider anyone else or consequences, so he can just do what he wants, guilt free.


Guilt free only lasts so long until it suddenly smacks you in the face. Might talk to him about that. Guilt free until all the sudden you are flooded with it out of nowhere. Then your self esteem takes a huge hit. I'm not sure at that age you understand because most kids dont think about the long term consequences anyway ADD or not. Still might be worth having that conversation.


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## TheDudeLebowski

@20yr

You talked about the pot deal you busted in the other thread. Can you talk about that a little more? What was said, how was he acting, how did you act...?


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## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> @20yr
> 
> You talked about the pot deal you busted in the other thread. Can you talk about that a little more? What was said, how was he acting, how did you act...?


He had already been caught with pot before so I was keeping an eye out. He told me he was "going to take a walk." I'm not that dumb. I watched from the window and saw a car drive up to the curb. He didn't even have the foresight to have the kid meet him further down the street! It was just a teenager. I sent him on his way, probably should have done more but was afraid of getting S16 in more trouble. I ordered those drug test kits from Amazon and kept testing him.

He said he thought that it helped his anxiety but I said no way. We talked to the doctor and switched up the anxiety meds. He seems to have stayed off of it but I am keeping vigilant.


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## Affaircare

20yr said:


> S16 only rarely takes a break from the meds because they do help with his impulsive tendencies. He would also do random things and not know why, say something that he shouldn't. It cost him some friendships.* It seems counterintuitive but with the ADD, even though the medication is a stimulant, it actually slows him down so he can think before he acts and focus on what he should be doing.*


Hi! ADD adult here with a 30yo ADHD son diagnosed when he was about 10 or 11. I have a TON to add to this thread, but I want to start with the bolded. For years...and I mean DECADES...I self-medicated with coffee because let's be honest, when I was a kid there was no such thing as ADD yet. LOL  I mean, I knew I was different, and everyone else knew I was different, but there wasn't a name for it, much less medication. 

All I knew was that at about age 12 I began drinking coffee, and it's a stimulant, but it slowed me down. Inside my head, it doesn't feel like "slowing down" so much as it feels like I can take a breath. See, to me, every single stimulation is at exactly the same level, so as I type here on TAM and look forward, I also hear my fan blowing, I see sunshine out the window, I see a bug on the window, I feel my fingers typing, I hear the clacking of the keys on the keyboard, I see the letters on the screen, I see the calendar behind the screen, I think about the birthday coming up, I remember I need to get a card, I smell the apple on my desk, I see something on the wall moving because the fan is blowing, my chair swirls and I giggle about how fun it is to swirl in a chair...on and on and it all hits at exactly the same second all at exactly the same level. As I understand it, someone without ADD might notice many or most of those things but some are kind of background and muted, and some are kind of foreground and noticed. Not for me! Nope! So I can't tell you how often I sort of stand and go in circles in my head as I go through all that. I might say I'm going to go downstairs to get an apple, stand up, go in circles, then head of in an entirely different direction "for a minute" because I remembered this, that or the other thing that needs to be done first. 

Soooo...in my head, before coffee, all those thoughts hit at the same time and swirl about. After coffee, all those thoughts might hit, but because there's some stimulation I can make a little list of priorities, and go "I want to concentrate on TAM and see the words but not listen to the clacking of the typing or the fan. Forget the bug, oh the sunshine is nice but let it be. Think about the birthday after the typing, eat the apple after the birthday, and yes, swirling in a chair is fun but I'm a grown up--do that after lunch." 

See what I mean? It's like instead of chaos, that moment of taking a breath and pausing. That moment is otherwise missing.


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## 20yr

Thanks for chiming in @Affaircare!

It is so helpful to hear adults express how it feels to have ADD. 16yo boys are not always the best at communicating what is going on in their heads. :grin2:

What you describe sounds exactly how S16 would act when sitting down to do homework. First, he'd decide to sharpen a pencil. Then, get distracted by tapping the pencil. Then, he needs a tissue. Then, he stares at blank page for essay trying to come up with the perfect title. One hour later, he has nothing on the page but a title and is playing ball with the dog!

But, he is such a delight and I love when he shares what he notices. Without him, I might not notice the patterns made by the sun on our table, see the rabbits in the yard, or hear the music made by the rain on our roof. He is open to more of the world. It is just hard for him to process in an orderly manner.


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## Affaircare

Yeah I have the blessing of being a writer in my soul, so when people ask for descriptive terms, I usually have the vocabulary to put it into words somehow! LOL 

My son was diagnosed with ADHD when he was about 10 or so. Now, he is more hyper than me, meaning I tend to just be distracted, and he tends to need to move AND is distracted! But what I learned with him, is that really about 99% of the time the reason he is that way is because he is actually quite a genius. He very literally sees the world in an entirely unique way, and in 5th grade was probably at about the 9th grade level and bored to tears. AND if someone were to sit and talk to him or let him express in ways he did best, you could see that genius as clear as day!! Where it all broke down was that he couldn't sit still and listen to the teacher's lecture. He couldn't put homework A into folder B. He couldn't be a good little citizen and just mindlessly regurgitate and "obey." He would ask "why" because he wanted to know and was curious--and he'd be told he was disruptive. 

So yeah, most ADD or ADHD people I know have the most AMAZING minds. Minds that are fun and active and smart as the day is long. To some degree the trick is to learn how to keep that fun, active mind but also to work WITH it to be able to function successfully in society. One thing I do is that I make LISTS. I make lists about the lists I make! But If I have something on the list, even when I get distracted, I go back to the list and work on it and when I check something off, I celebrate. If I get distracted, I don't forget what distracted me, I just add it to the list where it should go! LOL


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## Tasorundo

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Guilt free only lasts so long until it suddenly smacks you in the face. Might talk to him about that. Guilt free until all the sudden you are flooded with it out of nowhere. Then your self esteem takes a huge hit. I'm not sure at that age you understand because most kids dont think about the long term consequences anyway ADD or not. Still might be worth having that conversation.


I have pretty deep conversations with him fairly regularly. I take him to school in the morning and we have breakfast every saturday. He is a teenager for sure, but he knows that there are consequences. He typically acts too fast to consider them.


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## kag123

Affaircare said:


> Hi! ADD adult here with a 30yo ADHD son diagnosed when he was about 10 or 11. I have a TON to add to this thread, but I want to start with the bolded. For years...and I mean DECADES...I self-medicated with coffee because let's be honest, when I was a kid there was no such thing as ADD yet. LOL  I mean, I knew I was different, and everyone else knew I was different, but there wasn't a name for it, much less medication.
> 
> 
> 
> All I knew was that at about age 12 I began drinking coffee, and it's a stimulant, but it slowed me down. Inside my head, it doesn't feel like "slowing down" so much as it feels like I can take a breath. See, to me, every single stimulation is at exactly the same level, so as I type here on TAM and look forward, I also hear my fan blowing, I see sunshine out the window, I see a bug on the window, I feel my fingers typing, I hear the clacking of the keys on the keyboard, I see the letters on the screen, I see the calendar behind the screen, I think about the birthday coming up, I remember I need to get a card, I smell the apple on my desk, I see something on the wall moving because the fan is blowing, my chair swirls and I giggle about how fun it is to swirl in a chair...on and on and it all hits at exactly the same second all at exactly the same level. As I understand it, someone without ADD might notice many or most of those things but some are kind of background and muted, and some are kind of foreground and noticed. Not for me! Nope! So I can't tell you how often I sort of stand and go in circles in my head as I go through all that. I might say I'm going to go downstairs to get an apple, stand up, go in circles, then head of in an entirely different direction "for a minute" because I remembered this, that or the other thing that needs to be done first.
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo...in my head, before coffee, all those thoughts hit at the same time and swirl about. After coffee, all those thoughts might hit, but because there's some stimulation I can make a little list of priorities, and go "I want to concentrate on TAM and see the words but not listen to the clacking of the typing or the fan. Forget the bug, oh the sunshine is nice but let it be. Think about the birthday after the typing, eat the apple after the birthday, and yes, swirling in a chair is fun but I'm a grown up--do that after lunch."
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean? It's like instead of chaos, that moment of taking a breath and pausing. That moment is otherwise missing.


Ok, this makes ME feel like I have ADHD lol! I can completely relate to the overstimulating environment and feeling everything in the room is at one thousand decibels all of the time. 

I always attributed it to my anxiety (diagnosed)...sometimes my brain spins so wildly it sends me into a panic attack or curled in a ball in the corner. Now that I am medicated (have been for many years now) that doesn't happen anymore very often. 

I remember as a kid being told by my parents I was "too sensitive" when I would complain about things being too loud, or too bright, or wanting some time alone in a less stimulating environment to decompress. (Insert rolling of the eyes here.)

I love the way you worded your sons experience of school. In my opinion most of elementary (maybe even middle and high) is about learning to fall in line and "be a good citizen" as you put it. My son struggles there too. He is the brightest, sweetest, most compassionate and creative person I know. He is a true gift. But, he will get bad grades for forgetting homework, or missing a few steps on an assignment, or staring off into space while the teacher is taking because he is bored. 

Internally, I struggle as his parent with this. On one hand I want to let his spirit shine exactly as it is... on the other I want him to be that good citizen and fit the mold in school. 

I've always worked in the corporate world and seen how all the little cogs (employees) are expected to fit into the machine. I am hopeful he can eventually find a career where he can be happy and make enough of a living to be comfortable. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## TheDudeLebowski

20yr said:


> He had already been caught with pot before so I was keeping an eye out. He told me he was "going to take a walk." I'm not that dumb. I watched from the window and saw a car drive up to the curb. He didn't even have the foresight to have the kid meet him further down the street! It was just a teenager. I sent him on his way, probably should have done more but was afraid of getting S16 in more trouble. I ordered those drug test kits from Amazon and kept testing him.
> 
> He said he thought that it helped his anxiety but I said no way. We talked to the doctor and switched up the anxiety meds. He seems to have stayed off of it but I am keeping vigilant.


First of all "going to take a walk" :rofl: he's an awesome kid!

Sorry to laugh, but that is hilarious. I'm sure it doesn't feel funny from your side. Oh gosh the hell I must have put my mom through. 


When did you first catch him? 

You might consider going over some things with him. Many people do use pot for anxiety and it does work. Others use pot and it causes massive anxiety and paranoia and those people end up doing it a couple times and never again. Seems he could be in the former. So you have to give him this side of it where you understand and know it can help with that. Validate him a bit here. Next you have to tell him about the long term damage of using pot before the brain is fully developed and tell him this is why it's a hard no. It's not because you dont want him to feel better, you dont want him to feel better at such a large cost and there's better options which is why it's a hard no. Come to you if something isn't working right or something needs to be tweaked and you will work with a doctor together. Maybe that's what was said? 

Have you looked into CBD? I'll be honest I haven't looked into it for kids so I'm not making a suggestion here about its uses but it's the CBD that works for anxiety not the THC when people use pot to self medicate. He probably knows this and might have used that as an excuse too. Highly likely. 

The thing about the drug talks that I found is everyone told me how bad this and that was and it will ruin my life but nobody said why. It was just X is bad dont do it! That was the end of it. Well, pot didn't ruin anything and in fact I found I wouldn't get overwhelmed with tasks and it seemed easier to dive into things where I didn't know where to start. It took that away and I just start working in sections. I could break it down then into smaller bits so it was easy at that point. So then I felt like people were lying to me about that, how bad could this other drug be? Next was stimulants (hard drugs) and they again had the opposite effect that everyone told me they would have. So I think it's more important to be honest and understanding than to just tell them no without a good reason. The "drugs are bad mmmmmkay" speech works for some kids, for a lot it doesn't and it can sometimes lead to more harm than good for them. 

If you see any odd behaviors and you think it might be drugs I'm a pro (unfortunately) and the only fortunate thing is my kids wont be able to get any of that past their old man. 

Btw, how do those drug tests work? Pee tests I'm sure but do they measure temperature and pass or fail instantly right away based off of that? When they designed all those drug testing devices, they had to test them for accuracy. This means they had to create a LOT of synthetic pee and perfect synthetic pee to where its indistinguishable by the labs. I bet you can now guess how stoners and the likes pass drug tests. Comes in a little bottle with a hand warmer and a temp gauge on the side so you can make sure it's at the right temp. Poor it in the little cup they give you, hand it back to the lab tech and you're golden (showers? Sorry, bad joke). But the warmer doesn't work by itself see. You have to microwave it for a bit so if it measures temp you are fine. Unless he's clever enough to set it on a lamp light bulb while he tells you he's waiting till he has to pee. 

If none if this applies, just ignore it. I'm just telling you how a stoner thinks and your kid more than likely isn't one. But theres always a way from our angle. Just sayin... but the "going for a walk" bit makes me think highly unlikely he's using. Sounds like a sweet boy.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> I have pretty deep conversations with him fairly regularly. I take him to school in the morning and we have breakfast every saturday. He is a teenager for sure, but he knows that there are consequences. He typically acts too fast to consider them.


That's awesome! I'm admittedly projecting in this thread because I can only go by how I lived. So just take my posts as that, projecting a bit. If they dont apply, that's fantastic news really lol.


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## 20yr

Double post


----------



## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> First of all "going to take a walk" :rofl: he's an awesome kid!
> 
> Sorry to laugh, but that is hilarious. I'm sure it doesn't feel funny from your side. Oh gosh the hell I must have put my mom through.
> 
> 
> When did you first catch him?
> 
> You might consider going over some things with him. Many people do use pot for anxiety and it does work. Others use pot and it causes massive anxiety and paranoia and those people end up doing it a couple times and never again. Seems he could be in the former. So you have to give him this side of it where you understand and know it can help with that. Validate him a bit here. Next you have to tell him about the long term damage of using pot before the brain is fully developed and tell him this is why it's a hard no. It's not because you dont want him to feel better, you dont want him to feel better at such a large cost and there's better options which is why it's a hard no. Come to you if something isn't working right or something needs to be tweaked and you will work with a doctor together. Maybe that's what was said?
> 
> Have you looked into CBD? I'll be honest I haven't looked into it for kids so I'm not making a suggestion here about its uses but it's the CBD that works for anxiety not the THC when people use pot to self medicate. He probably knows this and might have used that as an excuse too. Highly likely.
> 
> The thing about the drug talks that I found is everyone told me how bad this and that was and it will ruin my life but nobody said why. It was just X is bad dont do it! That was the end of it. Well, pot didn't ruin anything and in fact I found I wouldn't get overwhelmed with tasks and it seemed easier to dive into things where I didn't know where to start. It took that away and I just start working in sections. I could break it down then into smaller bits so it was easy at that point. So then I felt like people were lying to me about that, how bad could this other drug be? Next was stimulants (hard drugs) and they again had the opposite effect that everyone told me they would have. So I think it's more important to be honest and understanding than to just tell them no without a good reason. The "drugs are bad mmmmmkay" speech works for some kids, for a lot it doesn't and it can sometimes lead to more harm than good for them.
> 
> If you see any odd behaviors and you think it might be drugs I'm a pro (unfortunately) and the only fortunate thing is my kids wont be able to get any of that past their old man.
> 
> Btw, how do those drug tests work? Pee tests I'm sure but do they measure temperature and pass or fail instantly right away based off of that? When they designed all those drug testing devices, they had to test them for accuracy. This means they had to create a LOT of synthetic pee and perfect synthetic pee to where its indistinguishable by the labs. I bet you can now guess how stoners and the likes pass drug tests. Comes in a little bottle with a hand warmer and a temp gauge on the side so you can make sure it's at the right temp. Poor it in the little cup they give you, hand it back to the lab tech and you're golden (showers? Sorry, bad joke). But the warmer doesn't work by itself see. You have to microwave it for a bit so if it measures temp you are fine. Unless he's clever enough to set it on a lamp light bulb while he tells you he's waiting till he has to pee.
> 
> If none if this applies, just ignore it. I'm just telling you how a stoner thinks and your kid more than likely isn't one. But theres always a way from our angle. Just sayin... but the "going for a walk" bit makes me think highly unlikely he's using. Sounds like a sweet boy.


The first time, we smelled it on him. It may not have been his first time, but I don't think he'd been using very long. As you know from my other thread, I am quite a detective!

The tests are sticks that test urine - just like a pregnancy test. 2 lines = positive. 

Like this: https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Home-Ma...&s=hpc&sprefix=pack+easy+marij,hpc,150&sr=1-3

As for CBD, doctor was not a fan of the idea.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Hmmmmmmm. They dont test for anything but thc. How do you do it? Do you just tell him randomly to pee in a cup and then dip it in there? How does the whole process work? I hate to bug you on this, I just want to be sure you aren't being fooled. Just thinking how I think. Theres lots of parents being fooled on this stuff and they dont know it.


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## personofinterest

My son began reading at 2 years old and began coding on the computer at 8 years old. His 1st grade teacher, who was a colleague of mine, did everything except insist we medicate him. She believed he had ADD. I knew that he was bored in class because he was so far ahead of the 1st grade material. Our solution was to supplement at home and make sure he understood that because he was a child and she was an adult he was to respect her and follow directions when in class. My solution was not to storm the board of education like some ridiculous arrogant ninny and insist that my colleague be fired. Because that is just stupid


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## TheDudeLebowski

personofinterest said:


> My son began reading at 2 years old and began coding on the computer at 8 years old. His 1st grade teacher, who was a colleague of mine, did everything except insist we medicate him. She believed he had ADD. I knew that he was bored in class because he was so far ahead of the 1st grade material. Our solution was to supplement at home and make sure he understood that because he was a child and she was an adult he was to respect her and follow directions when in class. My solution was not to storm the board of education like some ridiculous arrogant ninny and insist that my colleague be fired. Because that is just stupid


Theres also a lot of people who have no business being in education, yet they are. So there is that. I wouldn't personally feel bad if those people lost their job.


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## Fozzy

kag123 said:


> Our son is on a medication called Quillavent (active ingredient; methylphenidate). Its a stimulant. His doctor gave us a coupon for it that we take to the pharmacy each month, with the coupon our total out of pocket cost is $20/month. I have no idea how the doc got the coupon but I am incredibly grateful for it! I wonder if there are coupons for other stimulant meds?
> 
> I suspect he has anxiety as well, I see so much of myself in him. I am keeping a close eye on him (and my daughter who also has those tendencies).
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


My 14 y/o daughter is currently on adderall because it’s the only thing our insurance covers. Our doctor gave us a coupon for Vyvanse at one point which brought the price down to around $100. It stayed there for a couple of months and then shot up to almost $300 WITH the coupon. Never got a clear explanation on why that happened but we had to switch medications at that point.


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## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Hmmmmmmm. They dont test for anything but thc. How do you do it? Do you just tell him randomly to pee in a cup and then dip it in there? How does the whole process work? I hate to bug you on this, I just want to be sure you aren't being fooled. Just thinking how I think. Theres lots of parents being fooled on this stuff and they dont know it.


Yes - I have him pee in a cup while I wait outside the bathroom and then test it.


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## 20yr

Fozzy said:


> My 14 y/o daughter is currently on adderall because it’s the only thing our insurance covers. Our doctor gave us a coupon for Vyvanse at one point which brought the price down to around $100. It stayed there for a couple of months and then shot up to almost $300 WITH the coupon. Never got a clear explanation on why that happened but we had to switch medications at that point.


The insurance companies are very frustrating. Our dr. wanted him on this med sooner but they insisted we had to try Adderall first before they would cover it. And, bc there is no generic version, our copay is $60/month for it.


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## TheDudeLebowski

20yr said:


> Yes - I have him pee in a cup while I wait outside the bathroom and then test it.


https://www.detoxforless.com/pass-a-drug-test/agent-x-urine.html

Just be aware this stuff exists and I'll drop this subject. :smile2:

Good going mom!


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## TheDudeLebowski

So, how has school gone this week? Getting back into the routine, so its probably way early to make snap judgements. Gosh I care about this boy a lot. Projecting of course, but he's at that age when I started falling off the map of reality and into my own fantasy land. Has stbxh been there for him as he's started back? Tell him you know of this guy who was very similar to S16 and similarly dad wasn't around. Tell him this man went off the deep end and really needed a father figure in his life that was NEVER there. It could have made all the difference.

I don't know if you have noticed this, but I connect well with the motherly figures on this forum. I still dont know how to connect with other guys and I don't have any bros. There's no "hanging out with the guys" I was never taught how this relationship dynamic is supposed to work. I can't see the strength other men are offering me and I'm stunted. It also impacts my ability to be a good father. This is a lasting wound. Tell him all of this stuff, or write him an email or something. I know its a pain in the ass to speak to that man, but I think its worth it on this front.


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## Tasorundo

My son has a terrible time waking up in the morning. I know he is a very heavy sleeper and he wakes up in a stupor for a few minutes no matter how much sleep he has.

It is frustrating as the parent, because he stays up too late, then complains that he cannot wake up. I told him this morning that he doesn't get enough sleep, and he countered that if he went to bed early he wouldn't have enough time awake!

On the way to school he told me he has a physics test today and that he isn't ready. The teacher said they need to have memorized kinematic equations, and my son said 'that isn't even possible!'. I didn't share my thoughts that he hasn't even tried, but just said, oh well.

I am working on not being negative towards him. I have a tendency to presume failure for him and start to get down on him before he has even failed. I don't see it as being negative, but trying to help give him tools to not fail, but he and my wife disagree. So, I am happier not worrying about it at least.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> My son has a terrible time waking up in the morning. I know he is a very heavy sleeper and he wakes up in a stupor for a few minutes no matter how much sleep he has.
> 
> It is frustrating as the parent, because he stays up too late, then complains that he cannot wake up. I told him this morning that he doesn't get enough sleep, and he countered that if he went to bed early he wouldn't have enough time awake!
> 
> On the way to school he told me he has a physics test today and that he isn't ready. The teacher said they need to have memorized kinematic equations, and my son said 'that isn't even possible!'. I didn't share my thoughts that he hasn't even tried, but just said, oh well.
> 
> I am working on not being negative towards him. I have a tendency to presume failure for him and start to get down on him before he has even failed. I don't see it as being negative, but trying to help give him tools to not fail, but he and my wife disagree. So, I am happier not worrying about it at least.


I know how he feels lol. Its like sleep is wasting my time! 1/3rd of my life I'm told to just sleep it away. Interestingly enough, when I feel really overwhelmed sometimes I just go sleep because I don't know where to start so I just don't start.

When I had teachers who were really passionate about the subject they were teaching I excelled. Always got bad grades in history because it seemed this was what coaches taught in middle school. I say "taught" but they weren't teaching. Read this chapter, do this worksheet. That isn't teaching! In 10th grade I had this history teacher who was an actual teacher. He would give lessons by lecture and he often would get so worked up he would be in tears because he loved talking about it. I got excellent grades in that class. The other kids made fun of him, and it is a bit ridiculous to be all in tears in front of your class, but I loved him as a teacher and always stood up for him. 

With other teachers, even good teachers, if they weren't interesting in their teaching style I would lose all interest in the class and eventually lose all respect for them. Got terrible grades. Of course they would let me know that I'm smart but I just want to sit there day dreaming and pissing my life away because I'm too lazy. 

Later in life, any time I failed at anything I would repeat their words in my head. I'm lazy! I'm stupid! I'm a failure! I'm worthless! I'll never be anything! A complete waste of oxygen and everyone would be better off if I were just dead! I stopped trying new things because I KNEW I would fail before I even started. Why bother even trying when I know I will fail, my teachers know I will fail, everyone knows I will fail so why even try?


----------



## Tasorundo

My biggest issue I have with my son is that he doesn't try. How much time did he spend studying or preparing for his physics test, somewhere between 0-15 minutes I had to guess, and that 15 minutes is because I am feeling generous. Did he write down the equations? Did he repeat them in his head over and over? Did he even try to get to bed at a decent hour to be rested, nope. None of the above.

That's why I get on him, because of course things fail when you put no effort and no plan in place! I try so hard to involve him in planning, show him how to be efficient and effective in accomplishing a task, but it just comes out as critical to him.

It's very frustrating for me, because I have built most of my career on leading teams and helping people develop skills to make our groups into top performers. None of it seems negative to them, but something about my son just turns me into my dad and I hate it.


----------



## alte Dame

Tasorundo said:


> My son has a terrible time waking up in the morning. I know he is a very heavy sleeper and he wakes up in a stupor for a few minutes no matter how much sleep he has.
> 
> It is frustrating as the parent, because he stays up too late, then complains that he cannot wake up. I told him this morning that he doesn't get enough sleep, and he countered that if he went to bed early he wouldn't have enough time awake!
> 
> On the way to school he told me he has a physics test today and that he isn't ready. The teacher said they need to have memorized kinematic equations, and my son said 'that isn't even possible!'. I didn't share my thoughts that he hasn't even tried, but just said, oh well.
> 
> I am working on not being negative towards him. I have a tendency to presume failure for him and start to get down on him before he has even failed. I don't see it as being negative, but trying to help give him tools to not fail, but he and my wife disagree. So, I am happier not worrying about it at least.


The adolescent clock is not the child or adult clock. Teachers know that early classes are almost a waste of time because the students are falling asleep at their desks. So, I actually think your son is in the norm here.

Re the memorizing, though, if he's ADD he will likely have serious problems doing rote memorization. I have to put tables of data on the wall of the classroom to let the students refer to rather than make them memorize. They can memorize certain types of data, I think, but not others (so, in second language, I've been able to expect them to remember individual items of vocabulary, but the interrelated grammar paradigms are much more difficult. Even Spanish, with its relatively simple inflection, is an issue.)


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## Tasorundo

alte Dame said:


> The adolescent clock is not the child or adult clock. Teachers know that early classes are almost a waste of time because the students are falling asleep at their desks. So, I actually think your son is in the norm here.


You should talk to Pinellas county, High School classes start at 7:10. It is crazy early.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> That's why I get on him, because of course things fail when you put no effort and no plan in place! I try so hard to involve him in planning, show him how to be efficient and effective in accomplishing a task, but it just comes out as critical to him.
> 
> It's very frustrating for me, because I have built most of my career on leading teams and helping people develop skills to make our groups into top performers. None of it seems negative to them, but something about my son just turns me into my dad and I hate it.


I went into an analogy about how our minds are like antenna in 20yr's other thread. You are trying to get him to pick up the stations on 1700MHz but he's over in 2100MHz and he just cant tune into the stations you do. If you stop trying to adjust his antenna, and figure out what stations he needs, it will help. But its hard for you because all the stuff you have done that makes you successful, the way you plan and organize, he will just never see it so its frustrating for you. Don't beat yourself up. Instead, think of it as a new challenge you have never come across and work at it from different angles. Your own ways just won't work here. This will require a little out of the box thinking on your part and working with him to develop an organization and diligence plan that works for him will help you both grow in this area. 

Its a lack of understanding that leads to these frustrations for both you and him. Its not a lack of care on either of your parts. You just don't see each other properly. You might even tell him that last bit.


----------



## alte Dame

Tasorundo said:


> You should talk to Pinellas county, High School classes start at 7:10. It is crazy early.


The schools all do this, with rare exception. Campaigns to change this are met with ferocious oppostion because of sports practice after school. I've always thought that the kids playing sports should get out early to practice so that the rest of high-school humanity can get the rest they need.


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## Tasorundo

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Its a lack of understanding that leads to these frustrations for both you and him. Its not a lack of care on either of your parts. You just don't see each other properly. You might even tell him that last bit.


For the most part, I now let him come to me if he wants help and let him handle his own affairs. I did not lecture him about the physics test or is lack of prep work. I said I hope you do well and I love you.

This thread paints a bad light on our relationship, it is actually very good. He and I laugh together a lot and I know that he knows I am here for him and support him. I cannot count the number of times I have told him that he can do anything he wants in life and he is naturally gifted enough to do great things if he wants.



alte Dame said:


> The schools all do this, with rare exception. Campaigns to change this are met with ferocious oppostion because of sports practice after school. I've always thought that the kids playing sports should get out early to practice so that the rest of high-school humanity can get the rest they need.


Here it is because of bussing. They can have fewer busses and drivers running if the stagger all of the schools. Middle school doesn't start until 9 and gets out around 4. Elementary is in between the two.


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## alte Dame

Tasorundo said:


> For the most part, I now let him come to me if he wants help and let him handle his own affairs. I did not lecture him about the physics test or is lack of prep work. I said I hope you do well and I love you.
> 
> This thread paints a bad light on our relationship, it is actually very good. He and I laugh together a lot and I know that he knows I am here for him and support him. I cannot count the number of times I have told him that he can do anything he wants in life and he is naturally gifted enough to do great things if he wants.
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is because of bussing. They can have fewer busses and drivers running if the stagger all of the schools. Middle school doesn't start until 9 and gets out around 4. Elementary is in between the two.


They could switch the elementary with the high schoool. They won't, though.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> This thread paints a bad light on our relationship, it is actually very good. He and I laugh together a lot and I know that he knows I am here for him and support him. I cannot count the number of times I have told him that he can do anything he wants in life and he is naturally gifted enough to do great things if he wants.


I never assumed a bad relationship and I apologize if it sounded that way. I assumed mutual frustrations with certain aspects of the father/son dynamic you two have. I have no answers, just my own perspective and what i think might have helped me. 

The flip side, my mom was too easy on me and thus a bit of an enabler. I say bit to take it easy on her mind you. He needs what you offer in terms of discipline as well. Just sayin dont beat yourself up. Good dads are there, and involved, and get frustrated because they care.


----------



## Tasorundo

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I never assumed a bad relationship and I apologize if it sounded that way. I assumed mutual frustrations with certain aspects of the father/son dynamic you two have. I have no answers, just my own perspective and what i think might have helped me.
> 
> The flip side, my mom was too easy on me and thus a bit of an enabler. I say bit to take it easy on her mind you. He needs what you offer in terms of discipline as well. Just sayin dont beat yourself up. Good dads are there, and involved, and get frustrated because they care.


It wasn't anything you said, just how I was perceiving my own description, talking about the negative aspects of my relationship with my son.

We do get frustrated with each other, but there is a respect there. I know that he knows I love and care for him and that is ultimately the bond that we need to build success.

It's funny, I feel my wife is too easy on him as well. We both want him to grow up and be successful at whatever he chooses, just different opinions on how to get there!


----------



## 20yr

Tasorundo said:


> You should talk to Pinellas county, High School classes start at 7:10. It is crazy early.


Wow! That is so early. S16 starts at 8:10 which is not terrible. He also has a very bad time waking up in the morning. I had suggested that he he try to adjust his sleep schedule in the week before school started but, of course, he did not.


----------



## 20yr

Tasorundo said:


> My biggest issue I have with my son is that he doesn't try. How much time did he spend studying or preparing for his physics test, somewhere between 0-15 minutes I had to guess, and that 15 minutes is because I am feeling generous. Did he write down the equations? Did he repeat them in his head over and over? Did he even try to get to bed at a decent hour to be rested, nope. None of the above.
> 
> That's why I get on him, because of course things fail when you put no effort and no plan in place! I try so hard to involve him in planning, show him how to be efficient and effective in accomplishing a task, but it just comes out as critical to him.
> 
> It's very frustrating for me, because I have built most of my career on leading teams and helping people develop skills to make our groups into top performers. None of it seems negative to them, but something about my son just turns me into my dad and I hate it.


Studying is an issue for my son too. At least with written assignments he can tell when he is done. With the studying, he loses focus and then it is hard to tell if he has done enough. We try to have him do active studying - creating Quizlets, for example.


----------



## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> So, how has school gone this week? Getting back into the routine, so its probably way early to make snap judgements. Gosh I care about this boy a lot. Projecting of course, but he's at that age when I started falling off the map of reality and into my own fantasy land. Has stbxh been there for him as he's started back? Tell him you know of this guy who was very similar to S16 and similarly dad wasn't around. Tell him this man went off the deep end and really needed a father figure in his life that was NEVER there. It could have made all the difference.
> 
> I don't know if you have noticed this, but I connect well with the motherly figures on this forum. I still dont know how to connect with other guys and I don't have any bros. There's no "hanging out with the guys" I was never taught how this relationship dynamic is supposed to work. I can't see the strength other men are offering me and I'm stunted. It also impacts my ability to be a good father. This is a lasting wound. Tell him all of this stuff, or write him an email or something. I know its a pain in the ass to speak to that man, but I think its worth it on this front.


Most schools around here start after Labor Day so only 3 days of school so far. Mornings have been tough as he is hard to wake but his mood is pretty good. He seems to like the teachers. They have not really piled on the homework yet so hard to tell how that will go. Last night he took forever with a silly "getting to know you" type of questionnaire.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

20yr said:


> Most schools around here start after Labor Day so only 3 days of school so far. Mornings have been tough as he is hard to wake but his mood is pretty good. He seems to like the teachers. They have not really piled on the homework yet so hard to tell how that will go. Last night he took forever with a silly "getting to know you" type of questionnaire.


:grin2: he plays video games... I used to take FOREVER creating my character. I needed the PERFECT name for the avatar. I needed the perfect outfit on it... stuff like that. Most kids just throw in whatever and dive in to the gameplay. For me it had to be perfect before I could start. 

Funny on the questionnaire. If they go around the room and tell you to talk about yourself, like ice breakers and stuff, I never could think of things to say. But, ask me to write it out and I was off, as @alte Dame mentioned "crafting the perfect responses" to every single question. I would rush through busy work like math homework and worksheets and stuff, but anything that allowed me to put my own spin on things like some reading homework for example, it took me forever. I always got good grades in writing homework, but not tests. I needed proof readers like crazy because of spelling and grammar mistakes all throughout, but any writing assignments I got proof read I would get near perfect scores. 

Sound familiar?


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## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> :grin2: he plays video games... I used to take FOREVER creating my character. I needed the PERFECT name for the avatar. I needed the perfect outfit on it... stuff like that. Most kids just throw in whatever and dive in to the gameplay. For me it had to be perfect before I could start.
> 
> Funny on the questionnaire. If they go around the room and tell you to talk about yourself, like ice breakers and stuff, I never could think of things to say. But, ask me to write it out and I was off, as @alte Dame mentioned "crafting the perfect responses" to every single question. I would rush through busy work like math homework and worksheets and stuff, but anything that allowed me to put my own spin on things like some reading homework for example, it took me forever. I always got good grades in writing homework, but not tests. I needed proof readers like crazy because of spelling and grammar mistakes all throughout, but any writing assignments I got proof read I would get near perfect scores.
> 
> Sound familiar?


Sounds exactly like my son!


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## TheDudeLebowski

On thing that helped me is a clean space where I knew where everything was at. I work this way too. My stapler has to be in its spot always, these forms in this spot, pens in that spot. I need everything in its place. Generally I'm a messy person, but when I'm working I need spotless, clean, organization. Everything needs to be in place otherwise it throws me off. Teenage boys are notoriously messy. Does he study in that mess or does he have a spot where he studies? Or is he really clean?


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## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> On thing that helped me is a clean space where I knew where everything was at. I work this way too. My stapler has to be in its spot always, these forms in this spot, pens in that spot. I need everything in its place. Generally I'm a messy person, but when I'm working I need spotless, clean, organization. Everything needs to be in place otherwise it throws me off. Teenage boys are notoriously messy. Does he study in that mess or does he have a spot where he studies? Or is he really clean?


We are having a minor battle over that. We re-did a space in his room last year with a bigger desk, nicer chair, etc. But, it quickly gets cluttered. (His room gets messy very fast - he doesn't put things away.) Plus, his gaming equipment is in the room. I'd like him to use the office downstairs to do homework bc there is less distraction and I could keep more of an eye on him. He wants to stay in his room.

My thought is that I give him the chance to "earn" the right to work in his room this year. If the work is getting done, fine. But, if he starts missing assignments, then he moves to the office.

How would you react to something like that?


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## Tasorundo

I think that seems reasonable. Here, my son has no gaming in his room. We have an office area with my wife's quilting equipment and our gaming computers (I am a gamer). Nothing in the rooms, no tv, no computer, nothing.


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## TheDudeLebowski

20yr said:


> We are having a minor battle over that. We re-did a space in his room last year with a bigger desk, nicer chair, etc. But, it quickly gets cluttered. (His room gets messy very fast - he doesn't put things away.) Plus, his gaming equipment is in the room. I'd like him to use the office downstairs to do homework bc there is less distraction and I could keep more of an eye on him. He wants to stay in his room.
> 
> My thought is that I give him the chance to "earn" the right to work in his room this year. If the work is getting done, fine. But, if he starts missing assignments, then he moves to the office.
> 
> How would you react to something like that?


Very well actually. My goal with work has a lot more to do with being left alone than getting it right so to speak. I will work very hard to be left alone :laugh: 

Micromanaging every detail is a killer. However giving a simple list like that is perfect. Look, follow these 3 things and I'll leave you to it. If you cant do these 3 things, I'll be forced to stand over your back and watch. Stuff like that. I think that's perfect. My response would be cool, I can do those three things. 

Putting things away is hard because when it's my stuff I end up just putting things away randomly so it looks clean. But then I can't find anything. So when i clean up it's like nice neat little piles of stuff all over the place works easier for me. Then i know where everything is at. 

At work, you cant have a messy office or desk, whatever. So it's like an OCD switch flips on where I have to have everything in the exact spot. If i don't I end up wasting time looking for things. I put things down and I don't remember where I put it. I could have had it 5 minutes ago and I already forget where I set it down. So I learned to stay diligent at work about having a place for everything. I still mess up and if something isn't there it's hard to retrace my steps so I'm just wondering around looking. Then I get distracted and forget what I was looking for. So I waste a lot of time if I'm not on the ball with simple stuff like that. My car keys are always in my left pocket, phone in right pocket, and I do things like a song in my head I made up to remember to check that I have everything before i leave the house. Then i get home and I'm just setting stuff down randomly and i never remember where i put anything. I'm always losing stuff. Each little distraction like that can send my mind off elsewhere.

Anyway, I really like the idea. I might suggest he loses his room quicker than he earns it back. Meaning he does these things he keeps his room, but if he doesn't and gets moved to the office, you add on a little more he has to maintain before he gets his room back.

Eta: and tell him btw. "If I move you to the office I'm going to add on these 2 other things to maintain"


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## 20yr

S16 had some homework over the weekend, same amount he would have on a normal weeknight. Of course, he does not want to do any on Fri night and I don't even mention it. Yesterday, I suggest he do some each day. A few reminders and the day goes by, at dinner I ask about it again. He did 1 assignment after dinner - a slight improvement over last year. The real test will be whether he saves all of the rest of the homework for late today. I'd love to see him just get it out of the way so he can really relax tonight before school tomorrow as opposed to working late on homework. Fingers crossed.


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## alte Dame

20yr said:


> S16 had some homework over the weekend, same amount he would have on a normal weeknight. Of course, he does not want to do any on Fri night and I don't even mention it. Yesterday, I suggest he do some each day. A few reminders and the day goes by, at dinner I ask about it again. He did 1 assignment after dinner - a slight improvement over last year. The real test will be whether he saves all of the rest of the homework for late today. I'd love to see him just get it out of the way so he can really relax tonight before school tomorrow as opposed to working late on homework. Fingers crossed.


My experience is that it's better to do the hard thing here. That is, to cheerfully sit down with the student and walk him/her through the assignments, all the way to pushing 'submit' when handing something in.

This is laborious for parents, but it models strategies for getting the work done. Otherwise, these kids spend untold hours explaining why they couldn't do something. The answer to 'why' is that they don't have the tools to overcome the effects of the ADD to actually perform well. 

As time goes on, they can manage more and more on their own.


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## TheDudeLebowski

20yr said:


> S16 had some homework over the weekend, same amount he would have on a normal weeknight. Of course, he does not want to do any on Fri night and I don't even mention it. Yesterday, I suggest he do some each day. A few reminders and the day goes by, at dinner I ask about it again. He did 1 assignment after dinner - a slight improvement over last year. The real test will be whether he saves all of the rest of the homework for late today. I'd love to see him just get it out of the way so he can really relax tonight before school tomorrow as opposed to working late on homework. Fingers crossed.


I would often wait until the day it was due. I would leave for school early and do my homework in the parking lot before school started. :laugh: 

The other thing is I knew certain teachers would just give make up work to bring by grades up to passing. I only had summer school one time. Never got detention, never got ISS... I just was the worst procrastinator and I also used a teacher's desire to pass students to my advantage. Turning in incomplete work and getting bad grades knowing I'll be able to pull it up to passing later.


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## alte Dame

They gave you passing grades because you did the make-up work, no?

As a teacher, my goal is to get them to learn the material. I always separate academic achievement from behavior with LD students. If they are learning the material, I don't penalize them for behaving exactly as their diagnosis says they should be acting.


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## TheDudeLebowski

alte Dame said:


> They gave you passing grades because you did the make-up work, no?
> 
> As a teacher, my goal is to get them to learn the material. I always separate academic achievement from behavior with LD students. If they are learning the material, I don't penalize them for behaving exactly as their diagnosis says they should be acting.


I could have used your help as a kid lol. Yeah I always got the makeup work done. I really didn't want to go to summer school. It was English in 10th grade I failed. The same class I met my wife in :smile2: 

Maybe I was extra distracted in that class looking at the beautiful girl sitting over there. 0

The teacher was really nice too, but I know she was frustrated with me because when engaged, I would speak up and give opinions on stories and the teacher seemed to like and agree with me. But she didn't do makeup work. Didn't believe in it. So I failed her class. Summer school was the worst drag. None of those teachers want to be there it seems, and neither do the students obviously. Worksheets and other stupid busy work was all it was. Ugh


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## alte Dame

I teach an original summer class in college writing for hs students. We do college-level reading in various subjects and discuss things in enough depth to get them writing. The students in the school with English credits outstanding can get credit for this. Classes where the students can read, discuss in depth, and then be directed in their writing are very good for ADD.


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## EleGirl

20yr said:


> This is a new thread for a side topic that developed on my original thread. My S16 has pretty severe ADD and anxiety. It started to get difficult to manage in Grade 8 and he has been on a rollercoaster ever since with academic and social issues.
> 
> @TheDudeLebowski has some very helpful perspective - sounds like he may be the grown-up version of my son! @alteDame has worked with children like my son so hopefully she can share some of her experiences. I'm sure we have a lot of other posters who have children with ADD, or have it themselves. Let's share our best ideas.
> 
> For me, medication was a big step. I really worried about whether it was the right idea. After trying a few medications, S16 is now on Mydayis. It is a newer drug and is supposed to smooth out the effects and can last up to 16 hours. He had been on a long-acting Adderral but that lasted maybe 8 hours and could result in a crash.
> 
> We are also working on his diet. He had been bingeing on sugary snacks when he was anxious. His weight has always been up and down. At the point where his mood and grades were at their worst, he was 225 lbs and I was finding candy wrappers under his bed (He would buy it at school. side complaint - schools should not sell candy in the bookstore!) Now he is trying to stick to high protein, low carb diet, down to 185 lbs, looks and feels good. The ADD meds do suppress appetite a bit but he had been eating from an emotional need more than hunger.
> 
> School starts this week so I am nervous about whether he can keep up his progress.


What age was your son when he started taking meds?


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## 20yr

EleGirl said:


> What age was your son when he started taking meds?


He started at age 14, the end of freshman year in high school.


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## kag123

alte Dame said:


> My experience is that it's better to do the hard thing here. That is, to cheerfully sit down with the student and walk him/her through the assignments, all the way to pushing 'submit' when handing something in.
> 
> 
> 
> This is laborious for parents, but it models strategies for getting the work done. Otherwise, these kids spend untold hours explaining why they couldn't do something. The answer to 'why' is that they don't have the tools to overcome the effects of the ADD to actually perform well.
> 
> 
> 
> As time goes on, they can manage more and more on their own.


This makes me feel a little better about my parenting lol. 

We are not very far into the school year yet where I live. The teachers all send home a few forms for the parents to fill out on the first day of school that ask for basic info about the student... and there's always this blank space that says "Is there anything else that you feel I should know about your child?" 

I debated not telling the teacher about his ADHD diagnosis (we just got the dx and meds this summer, so this is his first school year using the meds). I didn't want them to treat my son differently or make it obvious to others in the class that he's got this label. 

Then I decided I was being stupid, and that my fear was coming from my own FOO baggage and not reality. So I asked my son what he thought, and if he was OK with his teacher knowing. He said he didn't care. I carefully wrote some key info to the teacher on the form. I did not ask for any special treatment (and we do not have a 504 plan or IEP, right now I don't plan to pursue one). I did ask that the teacher let me know if he noticed anything out of the ordinary, after giving him a list of my sons most common difficult traits lol. I haven't heard anything yet, hoping that is a good thing. 

I am trying very hard to teach my son to advocate for himself. At home I am constantly working with him on organization skills, and teaching him to communicate when he's having a tough time or when he doesn't understand. My H can get frustrated with him at times because he can seem aloof or like he's purposely ignoring you when you talk to him. Sometimes that is the case (he IS a preteen boy after all), but I can tell when it is a matter of the wheels in his head spinning and he can't take in the information you are trying to convey. I am trying to teach my son to say things like "I'm sorry, can you please repeat what you just said?" Or to ask follow up questions ... "I heard you say you wanted me to take my math book out, what did you say after that?" The absolute biggest thing I am trying to do at home with my H is give our son a chance to ask for clarification without judgment. Asking a kid to tell you he didn't understand or needs you to repeat something when they know you are angry about them not listening... not going to happen. All he will do is shut down in response to your anger and frustration. My H's father was a total hard-ass and I see that same behavior from my H at times. 

Procrastination is a huge issue. In previous years of school so far, we've had house rules that homework gets done at a certain time each day, showers happen at a certain time each day, etc. No matter what. 

As my kids get older I am trying to transition them to taking more responsibility for their own choices (and giving them freedom to make that choice and live with the consequence). 

They usually dont have HW assigned on Fridays. Son came home with HW on Friday - it was an unfinished classwork assignment. He asked his teacher if he could take it home to finish it over the weekend (be still my heart! lol) and the teacher said yes. He showed it to me and asked me if he could do it on Sat or Sun, instead of Fri right after school when we usually do HW. I said OK - but we are going to pick a time right now on either Sat or Sun to get it done. You pick the time. He decided he would do it immediately after breakfast on Sat morning. 

Sat morning rolls around, and during breakfast we are talking about plans for the weekend. His sister does not have any HW so she goes off to get into something. He asks his dad if he can do the HW later and go hang with his sister instead. 

Dad says - yea sure. I put my foot down and said hold on a second, we had an agreement yesterday that you would do this HW immediately after breakfast today. We are not changing it. You chose this time, and you have to stick with what you chose. 

There was a ton of complaining and grumbling because "dad just said I could do it later!". Eventually he gave up fighting me, sat down and got it done. I know if I didn't force him to stick to his word, he would have been doing it at midnight on Sunday night. Dad didn't understand what the big deal was (roll eyes here). 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## 20yr

kag123 said:


> Sat morning rolls around, and during breakfast we are talking about plans for the weekend. His sister does not have any HW so she goes off to get into something. He asks his dad if he can do the HW later and go hang with his sister instead.
> 
> Dad says - yea sure. I put my foot down and said hold on a second, we had an agreement yesterday that you would do this HW immediately after breakfast today. We are not changing it. You chose this time, and you have to stick with what you chose.
> 
> There was a ton of complaining and grumbling because "dad just said I could do it later!". Eventually he gave up fighting me, sat down and got it done. I know if I didn't force him to stick to his word, he would have been doing it at midnight on Sunday night. Dad didn't understand what the big deal was (roll eyes here).
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Good for you, sticking to the deal. I may be too wishy-washy on that but it is hard to force a 16yo to do an assignment. And, if he is not in the mood, it just seems to take even longer. He did 1 piece on Saturday finally started the rest of his weekend work at about 5pm on Sunday. Not ideal, but better than usual.


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## kag123

20yr said:


> Good for you, sticking to the deal. I may be too wishy-washy on that but it is hard to force a 16yo to do an assignment. And, if he is not in the mood, it just seems to take even longer. He did 1 piece on Saturday finally started the rest of his weekend work at about 5pm on Sunday. Not ideal, but better than usual.


As long as he got it done! I have no illusion that I will have much sway when he is 16!  

I have definitely noticed he takes longer when he's not in the mood to do it. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## alte Dame

I have lots of parents of ADHD students telling me that 'He/she simply doesn't do the work. There's procrastination and sometimes outright lying about it." -> ("The teacher doesn't want that"; "there's no makeup"; "nobody handed it in"; "I know it's on the assignment sheet, but she said we didn't have to do it", etc.)

I try to gently, but firmly, insist that they are still minors and the parents can, in fact, demand that the student sit down and do the work. The parents are in charge, not the LD student. The student doesn't really know how to successfully navigate the schoolwork - that's the nature of the disorder -, so why should he/she be in charge of getting it done? They can't do it and when faced with the responsibility with no firm guidance, they fail. They hem and haw, procrastinate, spend hours on one assignment while ignoring everything else, and in the end they don't even hand it in.

It's hard for parents, but if you want them to develop different habits, you have to model them. That means actively sitting with them the way a tutor would and marching them through the list of assignments. No procrastination or using time unwisely. No excuses. For instance:

Student: I don't have any English homework.
Parent: OK, well let me see your notebook and agenda just to make sure.
Student: You don't have to look. The teacher said that we don't have to do anything for homework.
Parent: Well, humor me. Let's look at your assignments.
Student: (Exasperated) Alright. Oh, I left it in my locker.
Parent: Isn't it online?
Student: Yes, but she never updates it.
Parent: Let's look together anyway.
Student: Alright, alright. (groan)
Parent: OK, I see from your teacher's website that there's a 200-point project that is due at the end of the quarter.
Student: I have that covered.
Parent: OK, let's look at what you have and work for 10 minutes on the project.

And so it goes. You sit there, smiling, but unrelenting. Give them time limits for each subject. Constantly check and push them along when they are getting bogged down by their challenged executive functioning. Stay on it, always firmly with good cheer.

It is laborious, but they eventually rework their coping mechanisms and take more control of their work. 

(This past year I taught an ADD HS boy who was the poster child for the diagnosis; he regularly stayed after school for help and came to see me every weekend in my private office. At the parent meeting, the mom said, "He comes to help sessions, as you all require, but only gets his work done with alte Dame. I don't know what she does." What I do is stay vigilant, engaged, and encouraging. It's exhausting, but can be beneficial.)


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## Tasorundo

My son texted me this morning saying "I want to talk about school when I get home".

Bleh, I need to do some deep breathing before we have this conversation. I did take the opportunity to say why you should not use those types of phrases. Never tell someone 'We need to talk later' either talk, or wait until you are ready to talk. Telling someone that you need to talk just lets them fill in the details with whatever awful scenario they can think of.

I suppose we will see how it goes later!


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## Tasorundo

So when I got home, he decided that he didn't need to talk.

I think over the course of the day he realized that if he asked for help, that it would mean he would need to change his habits and that he doesn't want to. So after that talk, and then so talk later that night where he professed his lack of needing help, and that everything is fine, I have decided to do less. I cannot care about it more than he does.

We should be leaving for school in 5 minutes. He is still asleep. He can be late, not my problem. He can fail, not my problem. Until he decides to care about it, no amount of my caring will change it.

While he has been blessed with a great opportunity, if he drops out of the IB program, it is certainly not like he is ruined for life. Maybe he will snap out of it, maybe natural consequences will do their job.

I feel like a bad parent and I desperately want to go wake him up, but I can't, as then we are still in the same place.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Model behaviors with him. I understand your point, make it today. Model behaviors with him going forward. Drag him along. Sometimes you have to show him this other side, and consequences for failing to stay disciplined. This entire thing is about discipline from my angle. 

We dont ask for help. He started to when he said he needs to talk. From my perspective, this is his way of locking himself into something he cant get out of later. If he does it again, just go along with it. Frustrating and stress causing as it is, humor him. "I am always here when you are ready. I'm ready to talk now, or we can talk later, but I desperately want to hear what you have to say. It must be important to you for you to reach out as you have. We have your back" something along those lines. His "we need to talk" is a feeler statement. Feeling out what your reactions could possibly be. If he's like me, he's had this conversation with you, whatever he wants to tell you, he's had this conversation with you over and over in his head already. IME the conversations I have in my head always go bad for me. When I work up the courage to actually have the conversation, it's often way easier and never goes as bad as I dreamed they would. Fear of failure and letting others down to the point you dont even try. If people expect little of you, you cant let them down. If you dont try, you cant fail.


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## Tasorundo

That's what I told him last night. I am here for you if you want help. I gave him a couple of ideas on how to improve his school work. Nothing major, but maybe set yourself a window of time (2:30-4) where you wrap up the days work and look at stuff for the next day.

This morning when he got up, he was mad at me. He made some comment about 'is this what you wanted?' or something along those lines. I did my best to stay calm and not escalate. I said that he made it clear he was not in need of my help and that he had everything under control. I have always told him that I refuse to care about this more than he does, so I am letting him have his way.

I made sure to let him know that I am always here if he wants to engage in conversation or ask for help. That I am not accountable for his choices and that he can bear the weight of those. It was all said without anger or being upset.

As I dropped him off at school, I reiterated that I was not mad and I was not punishing him, just letting him stand on his own if that is what he wants.


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## 20yr

Tasorundo said:


> So when I got home, he decided that he didn't need to talk.
> 
> I think over the course of the day he realized that if he asked for help, that it would mean he would need to change his habits and that he doesn't want to. So after that talk, and then so talk later that night where he professed his lack of needing help, and that everything is fine, I have decided to do less. I cannot care about it more than he does.
> 
> We should be leaving for school in 5 minutes. He is still asleep. He can be late, not my problem. He can fail, not my problem. Until he decides to care about it, no amount of my caring will change it.
> 
> While he has been blessed with a great opportunity, if he drops out of the IB program, it is certainly not like he is ruined for life. Maybe he will snap out of it, maybe natural consequences will do their job.
> 
> I feel like a bad parent and I desperately want to go wake him up, but I can't, as then we are still in the same place.


I have been in that place where I want to give up and let him face the consequences. But, I have learned that S16 doesn't quite get it yet. Consequences do not have the same effect on him as his brother. If he oversleeps and misses school, he falls behind and it all starts to spiral until he is overwhelmed.

At the same time, you do need to think about whether an IB program is appropriate with his issues. They are very challenging with a lot of homework. S16 tested into honors classes but we dropped him down a level in some of them. He could not handle a full honors load and will probably not take any AP classes.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> That's what I told him last night. I am here for you if you want help. I gave him a couple of ideas on how to improve his school work. Nothing major, but maybe set yourself a window of time (2:30-4) where you wrap up the days work and look at stuff for the next day.
> 
> This morning when he got up, he was mad at me. He made some comment about 'is this what you wanted?' or something along those lines. I did my best to stay calm and not escalate. I said that he made it clear he was not in need of my help and that he had everything under control. I have always told him that I refuse to care about this more than he does, so I am letting him have his way.
> 
> I made sure to let him know that I am always here if he wants to engage in conversation or ask for help. That I am not accountable for his choices and that he can bear the weight of those. It was all said without anger or being upset.
> 
> As I dropped him off at school, I reiterated that I was not mad and I was not punishing him, just letting him stand on his own if that is what he wants.


His frustrations were with *himself* and he took them out on you.


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## Tasorundo

We have always helped shield him from consequences by being proactive. While I like to think that I let him stand or fall, we tend to prop him up a bit and keep him from falling. I think that is a natural inclination as a parent, you always want to shield them from pain.

IB is not important to me, he has the chance to be in it, and he decided to do it. I told him at the time that I think it is a good idea to start and if it isn't working you can leave. You can't not start and decide to join though, so that is why he went that way. Really, I don't think it is too hard for him, it is just with no effort, any level of advanced high school would be hard.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> We have always helped shield him from consequences by being proactive. While I like to think that I let him stand or fall, we tend to prop him up a bit and keep him from falling. I think that is a natural inclination as a parent, you always want to shield them from pain.
> 
> IB is not important to me, he has the chance to be in it, and he decided to do it. I told him at the time that I think it is a good idea to start and if it isn't working you can leave. You can't not start and decide to join though, so that is why he went that way. Really, I don't think it is too hard for him, it is just with no effort, any level of advanced high school would be hard.


You are fine. I agree with your decision. Guard against self esteem issues more than anything. Success and failure are universal. Sometimes it feels like everyone else succeeds while we fail. Then we purposefully try to lower expectations, and stop trying due to fear of failure. Its almost like a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. He chose to do something. Try all you can to help him finish what he started. Short term frustrations, long term gains. 

ADD/ADHD from what I've read are notorious for manipulating others. Like @alte Dame pointed out with the "no homework" conversation above. We're good talkers. I've said on this forum many times that I can talk myself into and out of just about anything. We've run all the conversation scenarios through our brains before any actual conversation actually begins. He probably wanted to tell you he doesn't want to do it anymore. Get to the heart of the reason. My guess is he's afraid he will fail and wants to give up already. If he gives up, it will hurt his self esteem more than failure. We just don't get it until its too late. Help him see clearly.


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## 20yr

Sometimes teachers are so unreasonable with homework! 

S16 comes home today with an assignment due tomorrow. He had the slip dated today so I know they did not have advance notice. A 2 page reflection (double space so about 500 words) on a story they read in class. Of course, S16 is upset and complaining. I sort of agree but I just gave him a non nonsense attitude of just get started and it will be fine. But, even as an adult, 2 pages would take me a while to write. 

And, of course, he has other homework. Luckily his math teacher does not overdo it and even gave them some time at end of class to start the assignment and he had 6 of the 12 problems done already. (Pre-medication, nothing would have been done.)

My feeling re: homework is that they do need some to practice what they have learned in school but it should not be busywork and should take into account that they have other classes. If each teacher gives 1 hour/night, that is too much - even if a child does not have ADD/ADHD!


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## TheDudeLebowski

Like I said up thread, some people have no business being in education. Now imagine if he was in sports after school, plus had all that homework. Literally working kids non stop. Its beyond unreasonable. I dont think a teacher should assigne work that takes longer than 15 minutes, period. Even projects should be looked at this way. You have 2 week. 15 minutes a night every night, or 3 hours last second. Student's choice. 

Son came home in tears. Got a bad science grade on his progress report. Texted wife to let me handle this one just this once. She's your typical Asian mom. Will go nuclear! Haha. Long story on his bad grade but I believe him. He's got three 100s, 95, 96, 93, and 87 besides that bad grade. Told him I will cover for him this one time but I expect that 87 to be above 90 and his science grade better be pulled up at least to a 85 or he's toast. No video games all week and he's already on silent lunch at school for his mishap. That is getting off easy lol.


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## alte Dame

20yr said:


> Sometimes teachers are so unreasonable with homework!
> 
> S16 comes home today with an assignment due tomorrow. He had the slip dated today so I know they did not have advance notice. A 2 page reflection (double space so about 500 words) on a story they read in class. Of course, S16 is upset and complaining. I sort of agree but I just gave him a non nonsense attitude of just get started and it will be fine. But, even as an adult, 2 pages would take me a while to write.
> 
> And, of course, he has other homework. Luckily his math teacher does not overdo it and even gave them some time at end of class to start the assignment and he had 6 of the 12 problems done already. (Pre-medication, nothing would have been done.)
> 
> My feeling re: homework is that they do need some to practice what they have learned in school but it should not be busywork and should take into account that they have other classes. If each teacher gives 1 hour/night, that is too much - even if a child does not have ADD/ADHD!


Neither one of my children had a learning issue and both were in the AP classes (lots of them). What I discovered early on is that the formula for schoolwork has changed a lot since I was a kid. The amount of homework is much greater and there are time-consuming, substantive assignments in all/most subjects. Many of the teachers would just copy some project off the web and assign it; the students were usu. ill-prepared for these projects, and the teachers often weren't in command of what they assigned. This meant that the parent - yours truly - had to do the teachers' work and essentially teach and guide my children through their work. 

They had such a ridiculous workload that I don't think they could have managed without my active engagement. (I remember one Sunday when my son (c. 11th grade) emerged from his room and said, 'I just finished 13 hours of homework.'  )

When you add something like ADD to the picture, the calculus shifts: the parent has to be engaged not just in the academics, but in, as @TheDudeLebowski so correctly says, the maintenance of self-esteem. He notes that he was a great talker and could talk in and around something beautifully. This is typical, but the talking rarely gets the written work done, and thus we are left with a student who is smart, but failing at so many things and feeling demoralized, anxious, and sometimes resentful or oppositional.

Unless your ADD student has teachers who are seriously trained to work with them in productive ways, you will have to work one-on-one with your child to push out the work. Hopefully, you will model different ways for him/her to approach the work such that the results are more successful.

I agree with the Dude - support the child so that self-esteem can be maintained as much as possible; once the demoralization is addressed a bit, the confidence level increases; once confidence is better, the student is more willing to take advice and implement it, thereby altering habits; once habits are changed, the student is more likely to work successfully and independently.

It's also my experience that homework for ADD students should be larger projects with a week or two arc to them, not the small bits of daily work that is so common.


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## giddiot

alte Dame said:


> Neither one of my children had a learning issue and both were in the AP classes (lots of them). What I discovered early on is that the formula for schoolwork has changed a lot since I was a kid. The amount of homework is much greater and there are time-consuming, substantive assignments in all/most subjects. Many of the teachers would just copy some project off the web and assign it; the students were usu. ill-prepared for these projects, and the teachers often weren't in command of what they assigned. This meant that the parent - yours truly - had to do the teachers' work and essentially teach and guide my children through their work.
> 
> 
> 
> They had such a ridiculous workload that I don't think they could have managed without my active engagement. (I remember one Sunday when my son (c. 11th grade) emerged from his room and said, 'I just finished 13 hours of homework.'  )
> 
> 
> 
> When you add something like ADD to the picture, the calculus shifts: the parent has to be engaged not just in the academics, but in, as @TheDudeLebowski so correctly says, the maintenance of self-esteem. He notes that he was a great talker and could talk in and around something beautifully. This is typical, but the talking rarely gets the written work done, and thus we are left with a student who is smart, but failing at so many things and feeling demoralized, anxious, and sometimes resentful or oppositional.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless your ADD student has teachers who are seriously trained to work with them in productive ways, you will have to work one-on-one with your child to push out the work. Hopefully, you will model different ways for him/her to approach the work such that the results are more successful.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the Dude - support the child so that self-esteem can be maintained as much as possible; once the demoralization is addressed a bit, the confidence level increases; once confidence is better, the student is more willing to take advice and implement it, thereby altering habits; once habits are changed, the student is more likely to work successfully and independently.
> 
> 
> 
> It's also my experience that homework for ADD students should be larger projects with a week or two arc to them, not the small bits of daily work that is so common.




Just got a diagnosis of ADD for my grandson AD.


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## alte Dame

giddiot said:


> Just got a diagnosis of ADD for my grandson AD.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Am sorry to hear that.


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## Tasorundo

Just found out he has to go see the counselor after school today, so perhaps the changes will need to start happening now. I am trying to let him manage his independence and do things because they need to be done. I don't want to get in a argument about everything every day, and then have to punish him and force him to do things. I just do not think that will work and only will create a lot of unrest in the house.

I spend a lot of time second guessing myself on my parenting.


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## 20yr

Tasorundo said:


> Just found out he has to go see the counselor after school today, so perhaps the changes will need to start happening now. I am trying to let him manage his independence and do things because they need to be done. I don't want to get in a argument about everything every day, and then have to punish him and force him to do things. I just do not think that will work and only will create a lot of unrest in the house.
> 
> I spend a lot of time second guessing myself on my parenting.


Depending on what happens at the meeting, you may want to follow up with the counselor and attend a meeting with your son. If you are putting a plan into place, it helps to have parents and school on the same page. I understand wanting to make sure he is independent but kids with ADD sometimes need a parent to help advocate for what they need to be successful.


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## alte Dame

Tasorundo said:


> Just found out he has to go see the counselor after school today, so perhaps the changes will need to start happening now. I am trying to let him manage his independence and do things because they need to be done. I don't want to get in a argument about everything every day, and then have to punish him and force him to do things. I just do not think that will work and only will create a lot of unrest in the house.
> 
> I spend a lot of time second guessing myself on my parenting.


I think we overestimate how much they actually know what to do. And then they get punished for not doing something that they don't know how to do. Modeling the solutions - the actual behavior, including the physical steps required - can help. They may have different problem-solving ideas, but if they see what your strategy is, they can start to see how theirs is different and how they might define a solution that works for them.

I definitely think that they have to learn to do it on their own, but they need lots of guidance and patience.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> Just found out he has to go see the counselor after school today, so perhaps the changes will need to start happening now. I am trying to let him manage his independence and do things because they need to be done. I don't want to get in a argument about everything every day, and then have to punish him and force him to do things. I just do not think that will work and only will create a lot of unrest in the house.
> 
> I spend a lot of time second guessing myself on my parenting.


This works for literally everything. Locate the fear in whatever situation you are facing. Find it, and bring it out into the light. 

Seems like your fear is failure. Failure to control things that deep down you know you can't. Hope will comfort your fears but keep them alive and well. Do not give in to hope. Instead, let go and give in to trust. Trust is the opposite of hope. Hope is a friend of fear. 

You are a fantastic father. Trust me.


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## kag123

Tasorundo said:


> Just found out he has to go see the counselor after school today, so perhaps the changes will need to start happening now. I am trying to let him manage his independence and do things because they need to be done. I don't want to get in a argument about everything every day, and then have to punish him and force him to do things. I just do not think that will work and only will create a lot of unrest in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> I spend a lot of time second guessing myself on my parenting.


I spend a lot of time second guessing myself too. The fact that you even care enough to do that speaks to the quality of parent you are. 

I hope the counselor meeting went OK. 

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## Tasorundo

kag123 said:


> I spend a lot of time second guessing myself too. The fact that you even care enough to do that speaks to the quality of parent you are.
> 
> I hope the counselor meeting went OK.


The meeting with the counselor didn't happen yet. What I did learn, is that it was initiated by my son, with the intention of changing one of the classes he is failing with something else. I am not sure that is actually allowed, and I am kind of disappointed that he wants to do that. The class is physics. If he does not take physics it will prevent him from taking high level science classes in the IB program. Not that he needs to do that, but that would limit his HL classes to English, History, and Spanish (currently failing).

His Spanish teacher emailed us yesterday concerned with where he was in class and that he failed the test which was essentially a review of what he should already know.

So, yesterday, we all 3 sat down to talk about school. I again explained to him that I am not going to force him to do anything, but these are the expectations. I told him that I am here to help him if he wants help, but I am not going to chase him around and force him to study or do school work. I am not going to track his assignments or contact his teachers. He knows what is expected of him, he knows what it takes to do those things, and if he doesn't he can come talk to me.

The expectations are that he will have all A's and B's on his report cards. The repercussions of not doing that will be removal of privileges until report cards with A's and B's are obtained.

I strongly feel that he needs to learn some lessons about failure. It sucks, and I want to bail him out, but it is not sustainable. He either has to care about it, or he can continue on his path.

I would rather him fail sophomore Spanish than flunk out of college, or be unable to sustain a job/family down the road. The world does not care if you have ADD, they expect you to work and accomplish tasks, regardless of your issues. It is up to you to manage them, not everyone else.

Anyway, just thought I would give that update.


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## 20yr

Tasorundo said:


> The meeting with the counselor didn't happen yet. What I did learn, is that it was initiated by my son, with the intention of changing one of the classes he is failing with something else. I am not sure that is actually allowed, and I am kind of disappointed that he wants to do that. The class is physics. If he does not take physics it will prevent him from taking high level science classes in the IB program. Not that he needs to do that, but that would limit his HL classes to English, History, and Spanish (currently failing).
> 
> His Spanish teacher emailed us yesterday concerned with where he was in class and that he failed the test which was essentially a review of what he should already know.
> 
> So, yesterday, we all 3 sat down to talk about school. I again explained to him that I am not going to force him to do anything, but these are the expectations. I told him that I am here to help him if he wants help, but I am not going to chase him around and force him to study or do school work. I am not going to track his assignments or contact his teachers. He knows what is expected of him, he knows what it takes to do those things, and if he doesn't he can come talk to me.
> 
> The expectations are that he will have all A's and B's on his report cards. The repercussions of not doing that will be removal of privileges until report cards with A's and B's are obtained.
> 
> I strongly feel that he needs to learn some lessons about failure. It sucks, and I want to bail him out, but it is not sustainable. He either has to care about it, or he can continue on his path.
> 
> I would rather him fail sophomore Spanish than flunk out of college, or be unable to sustain a job/family down the road. The world does not care if you have ADD, they expect you to work and accomplish tasks, regardless of your issues. It is up to you to manage them, not everyone else.
> 
> Anyway, just thought I would give that update.


It sounds like he is showing initiative if he called the meeting with the counselor. It is good that he feels like he can ask for help.

When you say that you expect As and Bs - is that in his current high level or if he drops to the lower level? Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to set reasonable goals for a child with ADD. He needs to learn the skills that allow him to adapt so that he can succeed later in the real world. 

Believe me - I had the same struggle. My older S was in mostly Honors classes and making Honor Roll. I had fully expected S16 to follow that same path but he could not keep up with the homework load in Honors classes so we had to step back in some. I would rather have him get an A or B in the basic level than a D or F in an Honors course.

Try to find ways for him to have small successes so that he does not get too frustrated and simply give up.


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## 20yr

Also @Tasorundo - you mentioned that your S is on smallest does of Adderrall XL - maybe check with doctor to see if that is sufficient? Especially for growing boys, dosage may need to be increased as he gains weight in order to be effective.


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## Tasorundo

You can call it showing initiative, but I see it as him taking the steps required to quit another thing that is hard. That is his MO, if something is hard, quit. Don't study, or read, or ask for help, quit and find something easy.

I do expect him to have A's and B's in the classes he is in. There is no reason for him not to do it. His ADD is not that severe, he is an avid reader, he is extremely smart, and he is very good at figuring things out. If he wants to do it.

When I say his effort into school is minimal, I mean, it is as close to 0 as it can be. He does not open a school book outside of school. If he doesn't finish his homework at school, he doesn't finish.

Things have been pretty calm for the last few days, but he has not been overly friendly. I show him that we care, that we are here for him, and that we think about how to help him and provide for him.

I think he is coming to grips with the fact that he might have to study and hopefully he will stop taking out that frustration on us.


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## kag123

What about getting him in with a tutor? 

If he's naturally smart and gifted, and has not ever really had to work hard for anything in his life (good grades came naturally to him), he may not know how or where to start. 

Being overwhelmed may cause him to just shut down and "quit" as you say. 

I was one of those kids who could get straight A's in advanced classes in HS, got good marks on my SAT, got into every college I applied to... without any real significant effort on my part. When I actually got into college and into some of the advanced classes especially... it was a brutal wake up call. I didn't even know HOW to study. I'd never had to do it before. I ended up failing a couple classes and having to retake them. A couple I scraped by with C's even when I spent hours upon hours with a tutor outside of class and tried my hardest. 

I still remember the amount of shame I felt and how horrible I felt about myself during that period in my life. I told myself I was too dumb for college and I almost dropped out. I didn't know how to cope with something that was actually hard. The only thing that honestly kept me there was that I was paying for it (on my own without any help from parents), and I knew it was going to take me many years to pay off all the loans and I had to walk away with something to show for it. 

My parents were always very tough on me and so I never told them about any of those struggles. I distanced myself from them because I was ashamed and didn't want to hear their criticism. I've never told them how I almost left college and how deeply depressed I was then. Looking back, I wish I'd had a softer place to land where I might've gotten some encouragement or support. 

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## Tasorundo

We have offered him two tutors for math classes over the past couple of years. I have a coworker with a math degree that is fairly young and I think they would get along well. My wife has a friend, who's husband is a retired high school math teacher. Josh wants nothing to do with either of them.

We are very supportive of him, we are not hard or demanding on him. I told him the grade expectations, but that is not some arbitrary harsh goal, it is reality. He needs to achieve those scores to stay in the program that he chose to join. If he doesn't they will remove him.

We are here to support him and help him, but I cannot force him to accept our help. He knows that he is safe with us and he can talk to us about his issues. I do not know how I could make our home any safer of a place to struggle. The only thing I won't tolerate is not trying to be successful.

My wife is a speech language pathologist, we know all kinds of strategies to work with him. You just cannot force someone to participate.


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## alte Dame

Tasorundo said:


> We have offered him two tutors for math classes over the past couple of years. I have a coworker with a math degree that is fairly young and I think they would get along well. My wife has a friend, who's husband is a retired high school math teacher. Josh wants nothing to do with either of them.
> 
> We are very supportive of him, we are not hard or demanding on him. I told him the grade expectations, but that is not some arbitrary harsh goal, it is reality. He needs to achieve those scores to stay in the program that he chose to join. If he doesn't they will remove him.
> 
> We are here to support him and help him, but I cannot force him to accept our help. He knows that he is safe with us and he can talk to us about his issues.  I do not know how I could make our home any safer of a place to struggle. The only thing I won't tolerate is not trying to be successful.
> 
> My wife is a speech language pathologist, we know all kinds of strategies to work with him. You just cannot force someone to participate.


I think that applying standard approaches to non-standard cognition has a great potential for problems. A teacher/tutor who has real experience in the LD world, esp. with ADD, can make the difference. Does he have someone like that in his orbit? Imo, it's good to get help that will work to build new coping mechanisms and learning strategies, not just model the standard, which is something that often simply doesn't work.

I am a specialist in this area and have a lot of experience. Many of my students have gone on to wonderful colleges and good careers, but only after addressing their different learning styles and understanding how to approach their work so that they be successful. Young people with ADD need to be able to translate what they are hearing from everyone around them into something that they can actually manage. Insisting simply that they translate it doesn't work with many things, especially academic subjects like math or physics that are founded on formal operations and calculations.


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## Tasorundo

alte Dame said:


> A teacher/tutor who has real experience in the LD world, esp. with ADD, can make the difference. Does he have someone like that in his orbit? Imo, it's good to get help that will work to build new coping mechanisms and learning strategies, not just model the standard, which is something that often simply doesn't work.
> 
> I am a specialist in this area and have a lot of experience. Many of my students have gone on to wonderful colleges and good careers, but only after addressing their different learning styles and understanding how to approach their work so that they be successful. Young people with ADD need to be able to translate what they are hearing from everyone around them into something that they can actually manage. Insisting simply that they translate it doesn't work with many things, especially academic subjects like math or physics that are founded on formal operations and calculations.


My wife is a speech language pathologist. So she does have experience with this sort of stuff. She has worked with kids of various disabilities for almost 20 years. I know it is all different when it is your kid, but I am not sure what else we can really do.

I am just at a loss with it. He refuses to talk to us about anything important. He used to see a psychiatrist when we started him on meds, and he never talked to her either. Whether I was in the session or not, he just says everything is fine, nothing needs to change and life is great.

Maybe I will look for some kind of specialist or something. I feel like we have had people try to work with him and this is still where we have ended up.

I will have some time with him this afternoon, maybe I will try to talk to him.


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## alte Dame

Tasorundo said:


> he just says everything is fine, nothing needs to change and life is great.


This is what the ADD teenagers say when they believe they have developed for themselves the coping mechanisms that will allow them to satisfy all or most of other people's expectations. They're OK, they think. They want you to be OK. This means that they can manage mediocre performance and juggle the various, predictable complaints from everyone around them. In my experience, this is the time when positive reinforcement from a proven specialist can be key.

I have my doctorate in theoretical linguistics and have worked most of my career in applied fields, including and especially the field of LD academic therapy and education. The verbal element is the key, as I'm sure your wife feels, too.

Have you asked your son how he problem solves? Can he describe how he solves an algebra word problem? Can he write it down formally? Does he know how to chain his thoughts and work so that he can be productive and get his assignments in? Typically, he would need someone to specially guide him through the ADD translation process.


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## Tasorundo

I have no idea how he does anything, to be honest. It doesn't ever seem to me like there is any rhyme or reason to his methods. Just scatter shot and throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.


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## kag123

Alte Dame - I'd love to find a tutor or therapist for my own son. How do I even begin to find something like that? I don't even know what words to type into google. 

In an ideal world what I would like to find is someone who can give ME therapy, too. I would love to have someone explain to me how my sons brain works, and teach me all of the alternative learning methods too so that I can also use them at home with him. Does that even exist without me having to go back to school for a degree in it? 

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## alte Dame

kag123 said:


> Alte Dame - I'd love to find a tutor or therapist for my own son. How do I even begin to find something like that? I don't even know what words to type into google.
> 
> In an ideal world what I would like to find is someone who can give ME therapy, too. I would love to have someone explain to me how my sons brain works, and teach me all of the alternative learning methods too so that I can also use them at home with him. Does that even exist without me having to go back to school for a degree in it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You can google 'LD therapist,' 'LD teacher,' 'LD tutor,' 'Teacher for AD(H)D,' etc. It can be hard to find someone with both experience and a methodology that works.

Most parents I work with don't really want to know how to do what I do when I teach. They are usually just relieved to not have to worry for the time the student is with me. I built up a practice training LD students to do well on tests like the SAT; parents were very happy with the results, which almost always were strong improvements over earlier efforts. Rarely, though, did they want to really know what I did.

I have worked as an LD teacher (language, math, history) for several decades now and can see the ADD teenager coming from a mile away. There definitely are strategies that parents can learn to try to help guide the work. Students themselves need someone to offer them a formal apparatus for learning that works with their special wiring. For me, I am always trying new things, but am sure of some basic principles at this point.

I will be happy to work with anyone here, if that helps.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Does anyone think it's worth anything to me to go to a doctor about this? Selfish post, my apologies. Just wondering if it would benefit me in any way? To get on a medication of some sort? I'm about to turn 36 and I actually love my job and I'm good at it. My wife has come to terms with me looking into her eyes as she speaks and I hear not a single word. She just repeats herself without anger anymore and she smiles while she does it. 

Do I really need to see a doctor or am I probably fine at this point?


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## Tasorundo

I don't see how it could hurt to talk to someone or try a medication possibly, they are not that strong and come in a variety of low doses so you can test it.


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## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Does anyone think it's worth anything to me to go to a doctor about this? Selfish post, my apologies. Just wondering if it would benefit me in any way? To get on a medication of some sort? I'm about to turn 36 and I actually love my job and I'm good at it. My wife has come to terms with me looking into her eyes as she speaks and I hear not a single word. She just repeats herself without anger anymore and she smiles while she does it.
> 
> Do I really need to see a doctor or am I probably fine at this point?


Some of the testing is not covered by insurance so you may need to decide if it is worth the cost. Maybe start by talking to your primary care physician.


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## TheDudeLebowski

20yr said:


> Some of the testing is not covered by insurance so you may need to decide if it is worth the cost. Maybe start by talking to your primary care physician.


I dont have insurance or a doctor. Probably not worth the cost based in the contents of this post. Thank you!


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## kag123

I was so hopeful that my sons medication would make a difference in his grades this year, but it seems like it's not going to be enough on it's own. We just got his first set of grades back and he failed his first two math tests. He did decently on writing assignments, but his teacher was being generous there because his handwriting is atrocious. The teacher made a note that he asked my son to read aloud to him what he wrote, and because it was technically well-composed (when he read it aloud) that he decided not to detract from his grade too much. 

(Side note - I wish the teachers didn't hang onto assignments for weeks on end. We always end up finding he is doing poorly in something several weeks later and then there is a lot of backpedaling to try to get him back on track again. Especially math, being that it is cumulative... I now have to figure out where his biggest gap in knowledge is, work through that with him and then re-teach him the last four weeks of math that he's been barely understanding because of that one key component he missed four weeks ago. )

I am frustrated, sad for him (because he's not careless, he does wish to succeed), disappointed that the meds didn't fix the problem entirely, confused... and trying to navigate those emotions while guiding him in the right direction in a positive manner. Trying to balance between making sure I give him appropriate help and keeping his self esteem out of the gutter. He often says to me "I'm just stupid". It's heartbreaking. 

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## 20yr

kag123 said:


> I was so hopeful that my sons medication would make a difference in his grades this year, but it seems like it's not going to be enough on it's own. We just got his first set of grades back and he failed his first two math tests. He did decently on writing assignments, but his teacher was being generous there because his handwriting is atrocious. The teacher made a note that he asked my son to read aloud to him what he wrote, and because it was technically well-composed (when he read it aloud) that he decided not to detract from his grade too much.
> 
> (Side note - I wish the teachers didn't hang onto assignments for weeks on end. We always end up finding he is doing poorly in something several weeks later and then there is a lot of backpedaling to try to get him back on track again. Especially math, being that it is cumulative... I now have to figure out where his biggest gap in knowledge is, work through that with him and then re-teach him the last four weeks of math that he's been barely understanding because of that one key component he missed four weeks ago. )
> 
> I am frustrated, sad for him (because he's not careless, he does wish to succeed), disappointed that the meds didn't fix the problem entirely, confused... and trying to navigate those emotions while guiding him in the right direction in a positive manner. Trying to balance between making sure I give him appropriate help and keeping his self esteem out of the gutter. He often says to me "I'm just stupid". It's heartbreaking.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I feel your pain.

Is your S seeing any effect of the meds with being able to pay attention better in class? Is it wearing off before end of day? It may be that the dosage needs to be adjusted.

With the math, is it possible he is behind from last year and needs some tutoring to catch up? Or, is he having trouble finishing in the time allotted?

Even with the meds, it takes some coaching to find the right way to get work done.


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## Tasorundo

Kag, what medication is he on now?

To update for me, the grades are coming up, slowly. There has been a few changes in his attitude about it, and I have just been trying to be supportive and let him dictate the level of help. So far things have been better.

I had a funny moment, or at least I thought it was funny. I was telling him that he needs to stop leaving things on his desk (cups/plates/food) and I started very calmly telling him that. I got to a point where I was trying to say something about how I feel I shouldn't have to remind him of this sort of thing. Instead of saying that in a calm way, I yelled something about him not being a 2 year old......he just looked at me funny. Then made fun of me for getting so crazy so fast about it all. We had a good laugh.

I know for me, when I am having struggles with feeling loved at home, it blows up into me losing my temper with Josh.


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## alte Dame

kag123 said:


> I was so hopeful that my sons medication would make a difference in his grades this year, but it seems like it's not going to be enough on it's own. We just got his first set of grades back and he failed his first two math tests. He did decently on writing assignments, but his teacher was being generous there because his handwriting is atrocious. The teacher made a note that he asked my son to read aloud to him what he wrote, and because it was technically well-composed (when he read it aloud) that he decided not to detract from his grade too much.
> 
> (Side note - I wish the teachers didn't hang onto assignments for weeks on end. We always end up finding he is doing poorly in something several weeks later and then there is a lot of backpedaling to try to get him back on track again. Especially math, being that it is cumulative... I now have to figure out where his biggest gap in knowledge is, work through that with him and then re-teach him the last four weeks of math that he's been barely understanding because of that one key component he missed four weeks ago. )
> 
> I am frustrated, sad for him (because he's not careless, he does wish to succeed), disappointed that the meds didn't fix the problem entirely, confused... and trying to navigate those emotions while guiding him in the right direction in a positive manner. Trying to balance between making sure I give him appropriate help and keeping his self esteem out of the gutter. He often says to me "I'm just stupid". It's heartbreaking.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


This is unfortunately a marathon, not a sprint. It will take him time to establish new cognitive strategies, especially in math, which requires a formal step-by-step description of his solutions. The teachers don't sound like they are attuned to his LD - a very, very common problem. Please try to focus on his problem solving in general and not on his grades. If his impulsivity is lessened and his focus is better on the meds, then you are likely making progress.

(You can also check the math tests to see if he failed because he didn't show his work. If that's the case, you can talk to the teacher about his diagnosis and how that affects the way he approaches math.)


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## kag123

alte Dame said:


> This is unfortunately a marathon, not a sprint. It will take him time to establish new cognitive strategies, especially in math, which requires a formal step-by-step description of his solutions. The teachers don't sound like they are attuned to his LD - a very, very common problem. Please try to focus on his problem solving in general and not on his grades. If his impulsivity is lessened and his focus is better on the meds, then you are likely making progress.
> 
> 
> 
> (You can also check the math tests to see if he failed because he didn't show his work. If that's the case, you can talk to the teacher about his diagnosis and how that affects the way he approaches math.)


I'm a little late replying but thank you to everyone who responded with support. 

He's taking methylphenidate and it seems to be working on his attention and focus issues. 

The problem is the comorbid learning disorders... they don't really give specific diagnosis anymore, so we just know where his weaknesses are - "slow processing" in math and writing. To be honest I don't know exactly what that means, or exactly how to help him overcome that. I had put a lot of my hope into the medication being the magic solution that would fix everything but we definitely need to seek out additional help. 

The math test was kind of a mess. First, they are on a common core curriculum. I personally do not have anything against common core EXCEPT that I think the questions can be purposely over-complicated at times. Sometimes even I, as an adult, have to read the question 2-3 times to figure out what exactly it is asking. 

This test was focused on decimals and fractions (changing numbers back and forth between the two). A few of his answers were wrong because he put the decimal point in the wrong place... or left it out entirely. Some of them were wrong because I can see he didn't understand what the question was asking. Sometimes they don't actually want the mathematical answer to the problem... they want you to write, in words, HOW to solve the problem but not actually solve it. (Insert eye rolling here.)

His handwriting is absolutely terrible so showing his work in math is hard to follow. They allow him to turn in an extra sheet of paper with his test so he has more room to show his steps... but even then he will do things like write the steps out of order. When he reads them back he can read them to me in the correct order.... but writing them is a crapshoot. Being able to read his numbers in general is a crapshoot honestly. It is definitely improving over the years... but I would say his handwriting is on par with a first or second grader, rather than his peers in 5th grade. 

Anyway... I beat myself up a lot because it is SO important to me that I be a positive influence in his life, and I don't want to fight over grades with him. He can see by my expression that I'm disappointed with a test grade without me even saying anything. I feel so bad about that. 

I have a lot of FOO issues with my own parents that clouds up my judgment and makes me more sensitive to having a good relationship with my kids... so I tend to be really hard on myself when it comes to making sure my kids know they are loved. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## alte Dame

kag123 said:


> I'm a little late replying but thank you to everyone who responded with support.
> 
> He's taking methylphenidate and it seems to be working on his attention and focus issues.
> 
> The problem is the comorbid learning disorders... they don't really give specific diagnosis anymore, so we just know where his weaknesses are - "slow processing" in math and writing. To be honest I don't know exactly what that means, or exactly how to help him overcome that. I had put a lot of my hope into the medication being the magic solution that would fix everything but we definitely need to seek out additional help.
> 
> The math test was kind of a mess. First, they are on a common core curriculum. I personally do not have anything against common core EXCEPT that I think the questions can be purposely over-complicated at times. Sometimes even I, as an adult, have to read the question 2-3 times to figure out what exactly it is asking.
> 
> This test was focused on decimals and fractions (changing numbers back and forth between the two). A few of his answers were wrong because he put the decimal point in the wrong place... or left it out entirely. Some of them were wrong because I can see he didn't understand what the question was asking. Sometimes they don't actually want the mathematical answer to the problem... they want you to write, in words, HOW to solve the problem but not actually solve it. (Insert eye rolling here.)
> 
> His handwriting is absolutely terrible so showing his work in math is hard to follow. They allow him to turn in an extra sheet of paper with his test so he has more room to show his steps... but even then he will do things like write the steps out of order. When he reads them back he can read them to me in the correct order.... but writing them is a crapshoot. Being able to read his numbers in general is a crapshoot honestly. It is definitely improving over the years... but I would say his handwriting is on par with a first or second grader, rather than his peers in 5th grade.
> 
> Anyway... I beat myself up a lot because it is SO important to me that I be a positive influence in his life, and I don't want to fight over grades with him. He can see by my expression that I'm disappointed with a test grade without me even saying anything. I feel so bad about that.
> 
> I have a lot of FOO issues with my own parents that clouds up my judgment and makes me more sensitive to having a good relationship with my kids... so I tend to be really hard on myself when it comes to making sure my kids know they are loved.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Have you talked to anyone about dysgraphia? This often attends ADHD. Students have a very hard time with physical writing and are allowed accommodations in many cases (oral exams, writing on the computer rather than manually).

Also, he may not be a slow processer per se. It could be that the way his mind processes is non-standard and he spends a lot of time trying to translate that into something standard that a teacher might expect.


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## Tasorundo

Just to update you guys, my son is doing better, pulling his grades up.

I have been backing off, being positive and letting him know we are here to support him. I think he is taking it more seriously. I don't see him working on much school work, but I know they have time to do stuff at school.

He was working on a project for Spanish this weekend, so at least there is some school work being done.


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## 20yr

We are making progress too bit it can be frustratingly slow. 

Math is going very well - got extra credit on a quiz so he has an A+. And, with the meds, he was able to focus enough to finish the test in the time allotted. But, he missed 2 homeworks in other classes that bring him down. So, 2 classes are Cs but should be temporary as quizzes and tests count for more than the missed homework. Yesterday was a good homework day - he started earlier than usual and got it done at a reasonable time. We had a good talk where he acknowledged that he needs to develop better study habits.

And, he has a sort of specific career interest that I won't mention here. In a regular session with GC, he found a couple of colleges with programs geared towards this interest. We thought he would have to go into a more general program - I honestly did not know he could get a degree in this particular major. He is excited about looking at them. I have to research these schools but they are not top tier so I think he could actually get in. He does so much better when he is interested in what he is studying so I would be excited if this works out.


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## Tasorundo

It might all come crashing down in the next few days! He has a physics test today and he has expressed to us that he thinks he will fail it. If he does, he is pretty much guaranteed to fail the class, or maybe get a D. Either will be enough to go on probation or be removed from the IB program.

I hope it goes better than he thinks, but the actual lack of preparation he has for this make or break test is fascinating. I don't think I could go to sleep if it were me.

I did not say anything about that to him this morning. The tension did get to me enough that I over-reacted to something else, but I got it under control pretty quick. It was another hot button issue of mine with him, changing things and just expecting everyone to be fine with it. Having 0 consideration for the impact on other people in the house or lifting a finger to make anyone else's burdens lighter.


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## 20yr

Tasorundo said:


> It might all come crashing down in the next few days! He has a physics test today and he has expressed to us that he thinks he will fail it. If he does, he is pretty much guaranteed to fail the class, or maybe get a D. Either will be enough to go on probation or be removed from the IB program.
> 
> I hope it goes better than he thinks, but the actual lack of preparation he has for this make or break test is fascinating. I don't think I could go to sleep if it were me.
> 
> I did not say anything about that to him this morning. The tension did get to me enough that I over-reacted to something else, but I got it under control pretty quick. It was another hot button issue of mine with him, changing things and just expecting everyone to be fine with it. Having 0 consideration for the impact on other people in the house or lifting a finger to make anyone else's burdens lighter.


 @Tasorundo - I hope the test went well. S16 is also taking physics. It is a lot of Math so he likes it. They have been doing labs in class but teacher has not posted many grades yet. It makes me nervous bc I know he can get distracted during class or have trouble with the strict lab rubric so I hope they are going well. I know teachers are very busy but it's hard when some of the feedback comes late. It makes it hard to adjust and turn things around.


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## kag123

Tasorundo said:


> It might all come crashing down in the next few days! He has a physics test today and he has expressed to us that he thinks he will fail it. If he does, he is pretty much guaranteed to fail the class, or maybe get a D. Either will be enough to go on probation or be removed from the IB program.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope it goes better than he thinks, but the actual lack of preparation he has for this make or break test is fascinating. I don't think I could go to sleep if it were me.
> 
> 
> 
> I did not say anything about that to him this morning. The tension did get to me enough that I over-reacted to something else, but I got it under control pretty quick. It was another hot button issue of mine with him, changing things and just expecting everyone to be fine with it. Having 0 consideration for the impact on other people in the house or lifting a finger to make anyone else's burdens lighter.


I also hope his test went well! Please update us when you can! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## kag123

20yr said:


> @Tasorundo - I hope the test went well. S16 is also taking physics. It is a lot of Math so he likes it. They have been doing labs in class but teacher has not posted many grades yet. It makes me nervous bc I know he can get distracted during class or have trouble with the strict lab rubric so I hope they are going well. I know teachers are very busy but it's hard when some of the feedback comes late. It makes it hard to adjust and turn things around.


We struggle with getting assignments back late too... I total sympathize with the teachers and all they have on their plate. We suffer though when we don't find out he's doing poorly until several weeks later. 

Does your son seem to have good introspection about how he's doing in his classes? My son definitely doesnt... and that doesnt help. I dont know whether it's an age/maturity thing or whether it's an ADHD thing... but if you ask him how he thinks he's doing he just shrugs and either says "I dunno" or "good I guess". He wont tell us when he's struggling, but it's not really like he's purposely withholding info, it's more like he's oblivious to his surroundings. Hard to describe. 

My kid just brought home a few more tests. All perfect scores. One of which was a writing type assignment where he had to respond to some prompts given... and where he actually found some grammatical/spelling errors in the prompts themselves and went on to use his red pen to correct them before turning in his test. The teacher wrote him a cute note about it which made him smile. Baffles me... some days I swear he can't follow a simple instruction and some days he's blowing me away. Writing is usually his worst subject. 

I will never understand how he can bring home failing grades and perfect scores in the same class on similar assignments within only a couple of weeks of each other. There's never been any consistency with him. 



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## Tasorundo

He got a D on the test, but somehow has a B in the class now. Whatever.

He told us to stop asking him about his grades, so, done.


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## alte Dame

kag123 said:


> We struggle with getting assignments back late too... I total sympathize with the teachers and all they have on their plate. We suffer though when we don't find out he's doing poorly until several weeks later.
> 
> Does your son seem to have good introspection about how he's doing in his classes? My son definitely doesnt... and that doesnt help. I dont know whether it's an age/maturity thing or whether it's an ADHD thing... but if you ask him how he thinks he's doing he just shrugs and either says "I dunno" or "good I guess". He wont tell us when he's struggling, but it's not really like he's purposely withholding info, it's more like he's oblivious to his surroundings. Hard to describe.
> 
> My kid just brought home a few more tests. All perfect scores. One of which was a writing type assignment where he had to respond to some prompts given... and where he actually found some grammatical/spelling errors in the prompts themselves and went on to use his red pen to correct them before turning in his test. The teacher wrote him a cute note about it which made him smile. Baffles me... some days I swear he can't follow a simple instruction and some days he's blowing me away. Writing is usually his worst subject.
> 
> I will never understand how he can bring home failing grades and perfect scores in the same class on similar assignments within only a couple of weeks of each other. There's never been any consistency with him.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


What I saw as a teacher working with ADD students is that they can hit the ball out of the park if the assignment interests them. They focus so gleefully on an interesting assignment that other assignments slip through the cracks. Once the due dates are passed, the ADD student writes if off as hopeless; he/she rarely does makeup work or tries hard to catch up unless a tutor/teacher/parent is actively forcing the issue. What you often see is a grade sheet with some perfect scores accompanied by many zeroes.

What I did was schedule a few hours with the student and literally push him/her through the work. I said, 'Perfection is the enemy of the good. Let's just get it done and submitted.'

So, I'm saying again that if you want these grades to come up, you have to work side-by-side with the student to literally push it out. The meds can help a lot, but if a teacher or parent is modeling methods that will 'get the job done,' that's extremely helpful. Just telling them to do their homework doesn't work particularly well because they don't really know how to manage their work successfully.

(Also, I always turned around assignments and tests asap. They were expected to submit their work on time and I felt they had the right to expect that of me. When I was grading long papers or exams, it could take a few days. Generally, though, the teachers shouldn't have such a lag with their grading.)


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## 20yr

kag123 said:


> Does your son seem to have good introspection about how he's doing in his classes? My son definitely doesnt... and that doesnt help. I dont know whether it's an age/maturity thing or whether it's an ADHD thing... but if you ask him how he thinks he's doing he just shrugs and either says "I dunno" or "good I guess". He wont tell us when he's struggling, but it's not really like he's purposely withholding info, it's more like he's oblivious to his surroundings. Hard to describe.
> 
> ....
> 
> I will never understand how he can bring home failing grades and perfect scores in the same class on similar assignments within only a couple of weeks of each other. There's never been any consistency with him.


He tends to know when he has done very poorly, for example if he did not have time to finish. But, most other times he will say it went "good" and it can come back with anything from a 65 to 100.

He is also very erratic - from As and Bs to Cs and Fs on assignments and tests.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Tasorundo said:


> He got a D on the test, but somehow has a B in the class now. Whatever.
> 
> He told us to stop asking him about his grades, so, done.


All these responses are hilarious from my end. Some lessons are just engaging and its easy to get focused on it and stay focused. Bring home a few good grades, then something else has our focus. Everything suffers. Or the lesson is boring AF or maybe even just the lesson plan, not the material. You get a F that gets pulled up later to a D. If you can keep your low scores at around 75 and only have 4 or less, you will be sitting in good shape.

"Sheesh dad, stop buggin' I got some A's over here covering for that bad test grade" :laugh:


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## 20yr

So, the grades for his physics labs came in all at once. Typical S16: 10/10, 5/10, and 8/10. Averages out to a C.

I'm going to try to see if he remembers why he failed one but, at this point, he will probably say that he can't remember.


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## TheDudeLebowski

20yr said:


> So, the grades for his physics labs came in all at once. Typical S16: 10/10, 5/10, and 8/10. Averages out to a C.
> 
> I'm going to try to see if he remembers why he failed one but, at this point, he will probably say that he can't remember.


This is just a progress report right?


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## 20yr

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This is just a progress report right?


Yes - the teachers post the grades online. We have about another month to go in this quarter.


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## alte Dame

This is the long-term problem:

Students like this are teaching themselves how to cope with failure, how to fend off the scolding and disappointment of the 'village' that is trying to raise them. They have coping mechanisms that are designed not to get good grades or move ahead in the world, but to keep people off their backs.

This means that they calculate constantly what they need to do to at least get C's on their report cards. Getting A's is too much work for them.

By the time they are teenagers, these coping strategies are becoming very cemented and trying to redefine them in a healthier way is *deeply* resisted. It appears existential to them.

As they get older, these coping mechanisms no longer work for them. They can't get through college because professors don't consider themselves part of the 'village' that needs to hound and push these kids through. They can't easily get or hold jobs. Their worlds become increasingly circumscribed.

I know several parents who are facing 30+-year-old ADD children who are living at home and can't be blasted out of their rooms without a huge blowup. Other adult ADDers are getting by in jobs that don't at all challenge their intellects, but pay the bills, so fair enough.

*The ones who have successfully navigated the transition to adulthood are the ones who successfully reshaped their childhood coping mechanisms into adult coping mechanisms.* This usually includes finding a field that captures interest and getting certified/licensed in that field. (Often the parents view the chosen field as vocational and are disappointed that the now-adult child has not matched intellect to career, but, in my opinion, this disappointment is seriously misplaced.)

The natural parental instincts for guiding students like this during the teenage years usually either backfire or are viewed by the child as harmless annoyances to be humored. These students really need to be guided away from the mental/cognitive strategies that worked for them as children. Parents who try to do this have a better chance of launching an independent adult into the world; parents who don't try to do this bang their heads against the wall for years.


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## TheDudeLebowski

alte Dame said:


> This is the long-term problem:
> 
> Students like this are teaching themselves how to cope with failure, how to fend off the scolding and disappointment of the 'village' that is trying to raise them. They have coping mechanisms that are designed not to get good grades or move ahead in the world, but to keep people off their backs.
> 
> This means that they calculate constantly what they need to do to at least get C's on their report cards. Getting A's is too much work for them.
> 
> By the time they are teenagers, these coping strategies are becoming very cemented and trying to redefine them in a healthier way is *deeply* resisted. It appears existential to them.
> 
> As they get older, these coping mechanisms no longer work for them. They can't get through college because professors don't consider themselves part of the 'village' that needs to hound and push these kids through. They can't easily get or hold jobs. Their worlds become increasingly circumscribed.
> 
> I know several parents who are facing 30+-year-old ADD children who are living at home and can't be blasted out of their rooms without a huge blowup. Other adult ADDers are getting by in jobs that don't at all challenge their intellects, but pay the bills, so fair enough.
> 
> *The ones who have successfully navigated the transition to adulthood are the ones who successfully redefined their childhood coping mechanisms into adult coping mechanisms.* This usually includes finding a field that captures interest and getting certified/licensed in that field. (Often the parents view the chosen field as vocational and are disappointed that the now-adult child has not matched intellect to career, but, in my opinion, this disappointment is seriously misplaced.)
> 
> The natural parental instincts for guiding students like this during the teenage years usually either backfire or are viewed by the child as harmless annoyances to be humored. These students really need to be guided away from the mental/cognitive strategies that worked for them as children. Parents who try to do this have a better chance of launching an independent adult into the world; parents who don't try to do this bang their heads against the wall for years.


Gosh this rings true. I always said its best to give C effort up front. This way the expectations of myself are lowered. Then I'll work tirelessly to be left alone. I'll work my butt off to prove I'm only ever going to be a C student in life. I'll give A+ effort here and there and offset it with D- efforts there. A+ results here offset by D- results there. The entire time the goal from my end is to be left alone. I know I suck at xyz, so I don't even try. Zero effort. But I know I can't just suck at xyz and get away with it, so I bust out ABC with all my effort and ability. In the end, my bosses just leave me alone about XYZ knowing I'll be top at ABC. Yep, C student for life. 

I sort of hinted at this before teasing up thread telling dad to chill out about grades. "How can you get a 70 one week and a 100 the next week?" Oh, its all part of the plan. :laugh: if I get all A's that's a lot of pressure with the expectations that I keep that going. Just accept im a C student, in every aspect of life, and leave me alone. How else can I show you people I can't be better than this?


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## alte Dame

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Gosh this rings true. I always said its best to give C effort up front. This way the expectations of myself are lowered. Then I'll work tirelessly to be left alone. I'll work my butt off to prove I'm only ever going to be a C student in life. I'll give A+ effort here and there and offset it with D- efforts there. A+ results here offset by D- results there. The entire time the goal from my end is to be left alone. I know I suck at xyz, so I don't even try. Zero effort. But I know I can't just suck at xyz and get away with it, so I bust out ABC with all my effort and ability. In the end, my bosses just leave me alone about XYZ knowing I'll be top at ABC. Yep, C student for life.
> 
> I sort of hinted at this before teasing up thread telling dad to chill out about grades. "How can you get a 70 one week and a 100 the next week?" Oh, its all part of the plan. :laugh: if I get all A's that's a lot of pressure with the expectations that I keep that going. Just accept im a C student, in every aspect of life, and leave me alone. How else can I show you people I can't be better than this?


I know, @TheDudeLebowski. I know the meta-you, the ADD man. You have found your way and I admire that.


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## TheDudeLebowski

alte Dame said:


> I know, @TheDudeLebowski. I know the meta-you, the ADD man. You have found your way and I admire that.


Idk. I feel like I'm always lost but I'm good at pretending. 

This thread is so interesting because it's like you guys have been watching me or something. If I was presented with some random options and paths like you could break down my mental and how exactly I would make my decisions and why. It's cool, and sorta creepy, and also makes me feel like less of an individual but in a good way. Like I'm part of a club or something. But it is weird that somebody knows how I think without even knowing me.


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## alte Dame

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Idk. I feel like I'm always lost but I'm good at pretending.
> 
> This thread is so interesting because it's like you guys have been watching me or something. If I was presented with some random options and paths like you could break down my mental and how exactly I would make my decisions and why. It's cool, and sorta creepy, and also makes me feel like less of an individual but in a good way. Like I'm part of a club or something. But it is weird that somebody knows how I think without even knowing me.


We are the same species, which means that we are all alike in most ways. We want to believe that our lives and experiences are singular, but they're not really. The commonality of human behavior allows us here to weigh in on other people's problems - we have experience and instinct that applies to others, all because we are the same species.

People with ADD have common behavioral traits, just as people with OCD or bipolar do. It is a mix of traits from 'the norm' and the ADD traits that distinguish the disorder. When someone like me works for years with students who have ADD, the behaviors become very recognizable and, hopefully, treatable to some degree.

As science evolves, diagnoses like this will change, I'm sure. I think we are just starting to recognize some of the different ways of thinking and processing, such as the ADD mind. Years from now, the diagnosis will likely be different and the approach much improved.


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## 20yr

Long weekend with no homework = joy for ADD child's parent! 

We are going to have time to have some fun. Weather is lousy right now but we should be able to get to a local Fair later in weekend, maybe a movie for tomorrow. It is so nice not to have to nag him to get anything done (last night was a late night finishing a paper - he knew about it all week and saved 90% to night before).


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## notmyjamie

My 17yo dd does not have ADD but she does have some other learning disabilities. I found her in the kitchen sobbing last week. She has some coding/encoding issues that make it very difficult for her to read and process what she's read quickly. Her English teacher had assigned 7 chapters to read each night. At that point she was so far behind she felt like she'd never catch up and was going to fail. 

She also has some severe memory deficits. My brilliant STBX signed off on her taking Human physiology this year...it's ALL memorization and reading. WTF????? 

Thankfully when I notified the English teacher she informed me that the website had an error and Sarah was right on track with her reading and was actually doing quite well in the class. I'm STILL waiting for her counselor to A)switch her out of the physiology class and B) arrange for the updated testing so she can apply to the learning disability programs at colleges. 

Mama bear is out...I'm going to walk into the school on Tuesday with an official request for a CORE eval which costs the school a ton of money and time to do. She'll get what she needs because they are not allowed to refuse this request per the Dept of Education. All I wanted was a quick updated specific re-eval on her reading and memory so her testing date was more current. Instead they will have to do the entire thing again. That's what happens when you blow me off. *******s.


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## TheDudeLebowski

notmyjamie said:


> My 17yo dd does not have ADD but she does have some other learning disabilities. I found her in the kitchen sobbing last week. She has some coding/encoding issues that make it very difficult for her to read and process what she's read quickly. Her English teacher had assigned 7 chapters to read each night. At that point she was so far behind she felt like she'd never catch up and was going to fail.
> 
> She also has some severe memory deficits. My brilliant STBX signed off on her taking Human physiology this year...it's ALL memorization and reading. WTF?????
> 
> Thankfully when I notified the English teacher she informed me that the website had an error and Sarah was right on track with her reading and was actually doing quite well in the class. I'm STILL waiting for her counselor to A)switch her out of the physiology class and B) arrange for the updated testing so she can apply to the learning disability programs at colleges.
> 
> Mama bear is out...I'm going to walk into the school on Tuesday with an official request for a CORE eval which costs the school a ton of money and time to do. She'll get what she needs because they are not allowed to refuse this request per the Dept of Education. All I wanted was a quick updated specific re-eval on her reading and memory so her testing date was more current. Instead they will have to do the entire thing again. That's what happens when you blow me off. *******s.



How did everything work out?


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## notmyjamie

TheDudeLebowski said:


> How did everything work out?


Well, my daughter asked me not to request the CORE eval so I held off. She would lose too much class time to get it all done. She had an appointment with the counselor last week and is following up this week. If they haven't scheduled something for her by then I will talk to the principal. After that I will contact the superintendent who is usually very responsive to these kinds of issues.

Thanks for checking in!


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## notmyjamie

Today I offered to go with my daughter to her appointment with her guidance counselor. She said "NO!!" I'll handle it" but I swear, if this lady blows her off again, my head will explode.

Today I found my other daughter sobbing over an English project. Her teacher told her today that she needed to add a few things to her project. Then said she had until the end of the day to turn it in. Just how is she supposed to do that when she's got other classes all day? I emailed the teacher her work and she happily accepted it. She got a 91 on her project. Crisis averted!!! 

Being the parent of students is SO much harder than being the actual student.


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## notmyjamie

Quick update!!! Today my daughter got an acceptance letter to her top choice college. She wants to go for Criminal Justice and she just got into the best program in our state. I am literally crying for joy!!!! 

It's been a long haul to get her to this point. We made some educational changes earlier in this year and her grades improved a lot. She dropped one class that was completely inappropriate for someone with her learning disabilities and that helped a lot too. Her guidance counselor still stinks...hasn't sent her transcripts to several of the colleges she has applied to so we're still waiting on those applications. Grrr. But at least she knows now that no matter what, she's going to a good college of her choice!!! WOOHOO!!!


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## Bluesclues

notmyjamie said:


> Quick update!!! Today my daughter got an acceptance letter to her top choice college. She wants to go for Criminal Justice and she just got into the best program in our state. I am literally crying for joy!!!!
> 
> It's been a long haul to get her to this point. We made some educational changes earlier in this year and her grades improved a lot. She dropped one class that was completely inappropriate for someone with her learning disabilities and that helped a lot too. Her guidance counselor still stinks...hasn't sent her transcripts to several of the colleges she has applied to so we're still waiting on those applications. Grrr. But at least she knows now that no matter what, she's going to a good college of her choice!!! WOOHOO!!!


YAY!!!! That is amazing news, congrats to your daughter (and you!)


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## alte Dame

Congratulations to her!


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## 20yr

Great news @notmyjamie!


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