# Re second guessing everything.



## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi, me again.
I cannot seem to find out any more about my WH, OW. 
It is difficult as they are having an online affair. They've never met. In order to expose her and make her Husband aware of all thats happened. I need to have my facts straight. It would also be really useful to know who he is and how to contact him. Also, they lie. Not just to me. But to each other. Don't they?

I told WH today that I didn't care if he thought he was NOT having an affair. To me. He IS. I kept it very short. No ranting. It ends. You get rid of all passwords or give them to me. If not. Divorce. No messing. No maybe or what if. The End.
He agreed to end it with her. 

ow HAS contacted him TWICE today.Asking him where he is. This is in spite of the NC email. Should I contact her and try to put the fear of God into her, basically by bluffing that I know more than i do? Threaten to blow her life apart? Obviously, I know her email address. Surprisingly, (not) her FB account has been deleted. She just doesn't seem to want to go away.

I don't feel at all confident! I did last night after my first post here and the response I got. In the cold light of day? I'm jelly.

I told my friends about the I love yous and the cyber sex. They basically told me i was being daft and should cut him some slack due to his PTSD. One actually said. "The man is a genuine hero! He hasn't done anything but have a bit of a lark online. She might not even be a she! You should just calm down and be glad none of it was real".

Now I just feel angry with everyone.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You need to divorce your husband and your friends, too.

They all sound like they have a mental age of 14 or so.

So, because he is a "hero" he is allowed to have affairs? :scratchhead:

:wtf:

Seriously?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> You need to divorce your husband and your friends, too.
> 
> They all sound like they have a mental age of 14 or so.
> 
> ...


Indeed. I don't have many friends. Well actually. Come to think of it. I don't have any.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Is he allowed to knock over a bank or kidnap a small child for having PTSD as well? But devastating you is a-ok?

I'm calling BS on this.. Your friends need to pull their heads out of their butts.. Fine, they didn't do the deed.. but let's look at it.. WHY haven't they? B/c they are so moral, and honest and he loves you so much? Nope. It's b/c he hasn't had the opportunity yet.

YET.

Should you wait for them to meet? he told another woman he loves her? And you should cut him some slack? yeah, not buying it.. sorry.. 

It's like my STBXH telling me that he didn't USE the dating website he signed up for.. with the password ****around68 as his password no less.. Really? As i said to him, supposing I believe that.. But here's the thing.. WHY does someone sign up for a dating website? To date? meet people? Hook up? Exactly.. 

It's the WHY he's doing this that is so hurtful.. not that it isn't physical YET.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

browneyes74 said:


> Is he allowed to knock over a bank or kidnap a small child for having PTSD as well? But devastating you is a-ok?
> 
> I'm calling BS on this.. Your friends need to pull their heads out of their butts.. Fine, they didn't do the deed.. but let's look at it.. WHY haven't they? B/c they are so moral, and honest and he loves you so much? Nope. It's b/c he hasn't had the opportunity yet.
> 
> ...


I was hoping for something like this reaction from my "friends" today. Thank you! My two dumb-as-struck lovers met on a dating site too! :iagree:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> Indeed. I don't have many friends. Well actually. Come to think of it. I don't have any.


Err... no longer true. You have all of us at TAM. We are your friends. :smthumbup:


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I don't think your 'friends' would feel this way if they were dealing with this themselves. It would seem the people here are more friend-like than the others.

Did your WH respond to the OW today? Do you think he is taking you seriously? You must stay resolute and strong about this, do not wobble or backtrack on your boundaries.

I learned a lot on Spokeo for a little bit of money. I was able to piece together a lot of info about my WHs OW, but he did provide me with her name and her general vacinity. He also told me what her H did for a living. I could not find a direct cell# for him or a definite company name, as he might just be a sgl operator contractor so I never did contact him directly although I saw texts that indicated he had found out about my WH and the OW. He saw texts my WH had sent to her cell phone and HE responded with some pretty angry nasty stuff, not that I blamed him.

I did contact her myself, this was before I was on this site and realized I'd made a few mistakes, and I did tell her if she didn't stop contacting my WH I would basically blow up her world, figuratively. I told her I knew who she was, where she lived and how to contact her and her family and I would use it.

I would get more info before you do anything else but stay firm on the rules to avoid divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> I told my friends about the I love yous and the cyber sex. They basically told me i was being daft and should cut him some slack due to his PTSD. One actually said. "The man is a genuine hero! He hasn't done anything but have a bit of a lark online. She might not even be a she! You should just calm down and be glad none of it was real".
> 
> Now I just feel angry with everyone.


You should feel angry with your friends. What kind of friends would say something like that? Get new friends.

You know, they have a point. It might not even be a woman. Many men pretend to be women online and carry on online affairs with other men.

Has your husband ever talked to the "OW" on the phone?

How long has this gone on?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Pam J/ EleGirl They met on a dating site for married people to find extra fun. Aint they all? He did say that she told him what her job was. So, i mostly googled her name until i narrowed down the list to just one. Both of them thought they were being so cloak and dagger but actually used their real names! HaHa!
I am going to stand firm on this. I've put up with some terrible times. Times that would have wrenched better marriages than mine, apart. Of course. I thought my marriage was one of those better ones. I know that i deserve more respect than this. I have been and will remain. A pretty decent human. If not a slightly gullible one.
Wow EleGirl! Do you think that would mess with her head? I'd like that. Even if it was just for a little while.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I have a suggestion for the OW now.

You have the passwords now, right?

Change them so that only you know the passwords.

Now you answer the emails, etc when she tries to contact him. And you mess with her head.

Start talking with her as though you were he. Then after a bit you say .. na, it's really his wife. 

I've done this. It works pretty well to send her off into a cyber melt down.

Or just change the passwords and block her so she can never reach him again.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You should feel angry with your friends. What kind of friends would say something like that? Get new friends.
> 
> You know, they have a point. It might not even be a woman. Many men pretend to be women online and carry on online affairs with other men.
> 
> ...


I don't know if he has spoken to the OW. I think it has been going on for at least a couple of years if not more. The OW has asked him to meet up with her several times. He has always put her off. Does it matter if its a guy? I mean, it would if my WH decided to bite the bullet. He'd be in for a shock. Wouldn't he! My point is. Whoever it is. He has invested more time in fantasy sex with them than he has spent on US in some considerable time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> Pam J. They met on a dating site for married people to find extra fun. Aint they all? He did say that she told him what her job was. So, i mostly googled her name until i narrowed down the list to just one. Both of them thought they were being so cloak and dagger but actually used their real names! HaHa!
> I am going to stand firm on this. I've put up with some terrible times. Times that would have wrenched better marriages than mine, apart. Of course. I thought my marriage was one of those better ones. I know that i deserve more respect than this. I have been and will remain. A pretty decent human. If not a slightly gullible one.


I keep getting press releases from that bloody cheater's website.

At one time their tagline was: "For people who want a bit on the side."

I think you should go for CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> I don't know if he has spoken to the OW. I think it has been going on for at least a couple of years if not more. The OW has asked him to meet up with her several times. He has always put her off. Does it matter if its a guy? I mean, it would if my WH decided to bite the bullet. He'd be in for a shock. Wouldn't he! My point is. Whoever it is. He has invested more time in fantasy sex with them than he has spent on US in some considerable time.


You missed my point.

Your husband might think he has a hot, online thing with a woman. But this woman might be a man pretending to be a woman. If she is really he, and your husband did not know it.. well it could put an immediate stop to all his online shenanigans pretty quickly.

My ex does this. I found out that he pretends to be a woman online. Even sends photos that he claims are him.. but they are ones he finds on the internet. 

I the spring last year I busted him in an 18 month online relationship with a man. The man thought he was a she. Of course he always told this guy that she could not talk on the phone or do Skype because of some long list of excuses.

I ended the relationship for by now ex by sending an email to the guy telling him that his true love was really my 57 year old husband. I sort of enjoyed ending that email.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You missed my point.
> 
> Your husband might think he has a hot, online thing with a woman. But this woman might be a man pretending to be a woman. If she is really he, and your husband did not know it.. well it could put an immediate stop to all his online shenanigans pretty quickly.
> 
> ...


You know what? This sounds creepily similar to what is going on here. It's uncanny. Know for a fact that WH sent her a picture from the net.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> You know what? This sounds creepily similar to what is going on here. It's uncanny. Know for a fact that WH sent her a picture from the net.


Did you find the source of the photo? Did you find it somewhere else on the net?

Hey maybe your husband and my ex??? YIKES


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Mrsmartian said:


> I told my friends about the I love yous and the cyber sex. They basically told me i was being daft and should cut him some slack due to his PTSD. One actually said. "The man is a genuine hero! He hasn't done anything but have a bit of a lark online. She might not even be a she! You should just calm down and be glad none of it was real".


He should be handling his PTSD with someone CERTIFIED to treat the problem, not an online woman who he has never met. Send those dumb people to TAM. Tell them to read threads full of "OMG it was just online" to "OMG, there were 3+ physical affairs."


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TinEye Reverse Image Search

TinEye is a reverse image search engine. Give it an image and it will tell you where the image appears on the web.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Did you find the source of the photo? Did you find it somewhere else on the net?


Use google photo search. I worked with a guy, who was sending money to a "Russian" woman. We found out, through google photo search, the photo was from an online dating site ad.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He should be handling his PTSD with someone CERTIFIED to treat the problem, not an online woman who he has never met. Send those dumb people to TAM. Tell them to read threads full of "OMG it was just online" to "OMG, there were 3+ physical affairs."


He IS getting treatment. Years of it. Been in and out of hospital. The whole kit and caboodle. He's had love and support and care from me and lots of people who see him as a lovely, sweet guy who adores me...They were shocked that I could say such terrible things about someone so adorable and heroic and kind. I have always been told how lucky I was to find him. I used to agree.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I keep getting press releases from that bloody cheater's website.
> 
> At one time their tagline was: "For people who want a bit on the side."
> 
> I think you should go for CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know.


His name has been searched 5 times!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> His name has been searched 5 times!


I love it when a plan comes together!:smthumbup:

I just had a creepy thought. Is he really a hero? I know of someone who attends Remembrance Day parades wearing all his medals.

Only one problem. *They aren't his medals*.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> He IS getting treatment. Years of it. Been in and out of hospital. The whole kit and caboodle. He's had love and support and care from me and lots of people who see him as a lovely, sweet guy who adores me...They were shocked that I could say such terrible things about someone so adorable and heroic and kind. I have always been told how lucky I was to find him. I used to agree.


They are shocked that you would say such terrible things about him?

What terrible things did you say that they objected to?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

No he really really IS. Nothing fake about the medals. The wounds.The 24 year career. No. THAT part of him is real.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I love it when a plan comes together!:smthumbup:
> 
> I just had a creepy thought. Is he really a hero? I know of someone who attends Remembrance Day parades wearing all his medals.
> 
> Only one problem. *They aren't his medals*.


This is a VERY good point.

Mrsmartian, do you know for a fact that the things he claimed happened? Or are you relying on what he has told you?

People lie about this sort of thing all the time.

I too have known a person who lied. He had medals that it turned out were not his. All his war stories were not his either. It was all made up.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> No he really really IS. Nothing fake about the medals. The wounds.The 24 year career. No. THAT part of him is real.


Sadly, then, the part of him that is fake is the only part that should be real.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> No he really really IS. Nothing fake about the medals. The wounds.The 24 year career. No. THAT part of him is real.


I'm asking you this seriously. How do you know they are real?

Have you seen his military medical records?

Have you seen his DD214?

Were you married to him when he was in the military?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> They are shocked that you would say such terrible things about him?
> 
> What terrible things did you say that they objected to?


The online love affair. The choosing to keep her. Even though finding out. Straight out knocked me to the ground in shock and grief. They objected when I said that he could lie to me. Basically, they thought I was telling tales on someone that didn't know what he was doing and it was likely my fault for not protecting him from this evil woman. SHE was exploiting him. I was allowing it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> The online love affair. The choosing to keep her. Even though finding out. Straight out knocked me to the ground in shock and grief. They objected when I said that he could lie to me. Basically, they thought I was telling tales on someone that didn't know what he was doing and it was likely my fault for not protecting him from this evil woman. SHE was exploiting him. I was allowing it.


Hm... 

How long have these people known him?

Why would they feel that he's a child that you have to protect from an evil woman?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

OH you are in the UK. So, your H probably does not have a DD214. That's the separation papers form for the US military. So what I meant is have you seen his military separation papers?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I'm asking you this seriously. How do you know they are real?
> 
> Have you seen his military medical records?
> 
> ...


I was not married to him. I met him after he came out. I have met a lot of his comrades. Spoken to his CO's. THEY told me about him. He NEVER discusses it. I can promise you. His child was born abroad on a military base.That side of him is utterly bonafide.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Mrsmartian said:


> His name has been searched 5 times!


Actually don't be too freaked out by that. I was a cheater but literally that years ago...like YEARS ago...and I've been 100% faithful, and my name has been searched 31 times. My Dear Hubby, who sits beside me every day and in whom I am 100% confident...he has be searched 134 times! I think it's because we have a website and write on here and stuff that people look to check up on us. Still...being searched doesn't necessarily equal guilt. It means that for some reason, someone looked. 



Mrsmartian said:


> I told WH today that I didn't care if he thought he was NOT having an affair. To me. He IS. I kept it very short. No ranting. It ends. You get rid of all passwords or give them to me. If not. Divorce. No messing. No maybe or what if. The End. He agreed to end it with her.
> 
> ow HAS contacted him TWICE today.Asking him where he is. This is in spite of the NC email. Should I contact her and try to put the fear of God into her, basically by bluffing that I know more than i do? Threaten to blow her life apart? Obviously, I know her email address. Surprisingly, (not) her FB account has been deleted. She just doesn't seem to want to go away.


This is easy. If you sent her a NC email, then print that email and mail it to her RETURN RECEIPT. Once you have the green postcard back you have proof that she received it or she refused to accept it. Either way you have EVIDENCE for a court of law. Then if she emails or calls, you go file a restraining order. You take the letter with the green Return Receipt to the judge as evidence that you asked her to stop contacting, and you print out her attempts to email or print out the phone bill with her attempts to call after the date of that Return Receipt letter highlighted. 

You ASKED her to stop and she did not stop, and that is legally harassment. 

If you get a restraining order and she STILL tried to contact, you don't contact her and tell her to back off. Nope. You call the cops or go to court, show them the restraining order and the proof of her attempt to contact, and BA DA BING she's under arrest. She'll learn eventually.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Hm...
> 
> How long have these people known him?
> 
> Why would they feel that he's a child that you have to protect from an evil woman?


they've known him since i met him some 8 years ago. Most people, never see first hand a mental breakdown. They don't witness psychosis or what happens to someone who suffers in such a way. It can make you want to protect that person. To almost excuse them for everything. All because you saw them when they really could not find a rational thought in their head.
I wasn't over dramatising how ill he became. It was PTSD from many many trauma that took a decade to finally come out. Lots of people theorised that he could finally break now he had found a safe place. Me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> I was not married to him. I met him after he came out. I have met a lot of his comrades. Spoken to his CO's. THEY told me about him. He NEVER discusses it. I can promise you. His child was born abroad on a military base.That side of him is utterly bonafide.


Ok, just making sure 'cause something seems off with the way his friends are talking.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Ok, just making sure 'cause something seems off with the way his friends are talking.


Not his friends. Mine reacted in that way. Women. Who i worked with. Who were there the day I met him. Who supported me through the years of supporting him. Night and day.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> they've known him since i met him some 8 years ago. Most people, never see first hand a mental breakdown. They don't witness psychosis or what happens to someone who suffers in such a way. It can make you want to protect that person. To almost excuse them for everything. All because you saw them when they really could not find a rational thought in their head.
> 
> I wasn't over dramatising how ill he became. It was PTSD from many many trauma that took a decade to finally come out. Lots of people theorised that he could finally break now he had found a safe place. Me.


Oh, I've seen people go through break downs. I've seen psychosis from mental illness and PTSD.

It still does not mean that the person gets a write off for bad behavior. As a matter of fact, the worse thing you can do is to use it as an excuse them to engage in bad behavior.

If he's so gone that he has to be allowed to do anything he wants, even things that hurt you.. then he is no longer treating you as a wife, but instead you have become his mommy. And so like most kids, he will seek to push the boundaries and do things like this online relationship.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> Not his friends. Mine reacted in that way. Women. Who i worked with. Who were there the day I met him. Who supported me through the years of supporting him. Night and day.


Well, sounds like they are no longer a good support system for you.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Well, sounds like they are no longer a good support system for you.


You're right. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this. I believe i became his carer. His Mommy. If you like. For all my efforts to keep the romance alive. It fell by the wayside. I think you just illuminated what i've come to realise.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> You're right. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this. I believe i became his carer. His Mommy. If you like. For all my efforts to keep the romance alive. It fell by the wayside. I think you just illuminated what i've come to realise.


It's easy for this to happen. If you want to save your marriage, you need to put yourself back into the position of HIS WIFE. 

Stop acting like his care giver / mommy. Let him know what you, as his wife, expect of him. The more you are in care giver mode the more you enable him to act out.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> It's easy for this to happen. If you want to save your marriage, you need to put yourself back into the position of HIS WIFE.
> 
> Stop acting like his care giver / mommy. Let him know what you, as his wife, expect of him. The more you are in care giver mode the more you enable him to act out.


I agree wholeheartedly. I just have to admit to you. HELL i wish someone was telling him he had to be less of a patient and more of a Husband. But, I'm guessing you'll say that someone should be me.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Mrsmartian said:


> He IS getting treatment. Years of it. Been in and out of hospital.


Sorry, you missed the sarcasm. I figured he had been diagnosed PTSD. That's more my disgust for enablers saying, "but he is a hero."

So? Heroes have been abusers, rapists, murderers and CHEATERS. You don't get a pass on morality because you defended the country.

Oh and I had a Bi-polar aunt, so I've seen a breakdown, it is not pretty. Still, she had consequences that included losing her children. I am not saying it is easy or that it doesn't take a ton of work. There's a point where you have to live your life and not raise another child.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> I agree wholeheartedly. I just have to admit to you. HELL i wish someone was telling him he had to be less of a patient and more of a Husband. But, I'm guessing you'll say that someone should be me.


Yes. You should say: 

"YEARS. You, my H, have been talking intimately with another woman for YEARS. This is not a marriage to me. I signed up to be a wife, not a fifth wheel who takes care of you. It's now your choice. The thing with this OW ends completely and ends now. I know you said you would end it, but now you have to really do it and make me believe it. YEARS of this. You've taken years of my life. No more."


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> I agree wholeheartedly. I just have to admit to you. HELL i wish someone was telling him he had to be less of a patient and more of a Husband. But, I'm guessing you'll say that someone should be me.


Well, yes you have to do that. It's a hard thing to do. 

He likes being 'the patient'. Most likely because then you do everything for him and he just gets to play around. 

You might want to start changing the dynamics of your marriage but not doing so much for him.

Let him know that you will divorce him over this on-line affair.

What does he do? I'm assuming he's retired. Does he do 50% of the work around the house? Shopping???

What does he take responsibility for?

Do you want to be just his care taker for the rest of his life?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Well, yes you have to do that. It's a hard thing to do.
> 
> He likes being 'the patient'. Most likely because then you do everything for him and he just gets to play around.
> What does he take responsibility for?
> ...


He does do housework and help out with my Daughter by listening to her and getting involved with her hobbies. We lead a very isolated life. She has her challenges as does he. I just take care of everything involving real life.
The outside world.

I don't want to be taking care of anyone forever. There could be an element that i know i will have to care for her for many years. He got ill. I added him to the pile. 

I'm under no illusion that this is all down to him. This is going to be a tough one to unravel because we started from a great place and somehow fell down one hell of a rabbit hole.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Actually don't be too freaked out by that. I was a cheater but literally that years ago...like YEARS ago...and I've been 100% faithful, and my name has been searched 31 times. My Dear Hubby, who sits beside me every day and in whom I am 100% confident...he has be searched 134 times! I think it's because we have a website and write on here and stuff that people look to check up on us. Still...being searched doesn't necessarily equal guilt. It means that for some reason, someone looked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is in the UK. That does not apply here, at least not in that exact format.

First step would be a Solicitor's Letter by registered (not recorded) post.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

He's agreed to go and discuss this with his care team. With me too. This is good. Isn't it? Is it? I dunno. 
Email from OW this morning. He thinks ignoring her is the right way to go. Personally I'd like to email her back and systematically crush her BS induced fantasy of who he is. Point by point. Then send a real photo of what a 5O something retired squaddie really looks like....NOT James Bond that's for sure .
It's OK. I won't. I'd like to. But i won't.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> He's agreed to go and discuss this with his care team. With me too. This is good. Isn't it? Is it? I dunno.
> Email from OW this morning. He thinks ignoring her is the right way to go. Personally I'd like to email her back and systematically crush her BS induced fantasy of who he is. Point by point. Then send a real photo of what a 5O something retired squaddie really looks like....NOT James Bond that's for sure .
> It's OK. I won't. I'd like to. But i won't.


I think you should. But maybe not send a photo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

NC means NC. Block her e-mail or change his e-mail address. Do what you have to do to stop the contact.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> NC means NC. Block her e-mail or change his e-mail address. Do what you have to do to stop the contact.


Ok, voice of sanity again! Should I then be on the look out for mysterious new email accounts?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> Ok, voice of sanity again! Should I then be on the look out for mysterious new email accounts?


Yes. Computer keylogger, phone spyware, VARs... the whole arsenal. He's aproven lier, you can only catch them doing this.
Unles he proves consistently, for a good while, OW is out of the icture for good you must take charge.
Never, never reveal your sources, just evaluate his actions and acts according you doesn't need to tell him a thing about "how you know", just that "you know".


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

As a counselor and a combat Vet, my primary focus in my practise is PTSD. Bad behavior should not be tolerated, understood but not excused.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> As a counselor and a combat Vet, my primary focus in my practise is PTSD. Bad behavior should not be tolerated, understood but not excused.



Maybe I should explain. It is my friends and family wanting to excuse him. Not me. I love the man but know full well he's behaved like a stinker and certainly doesn't walk on water! I've been very lucky to find this site. Thank you for the level headed straight talking.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Yes. Computer keylogger, phone spyware, VARs... the whole arsenal. He's aproven lier, you can only catch them doing this.
> Unles he proves consistently, for a good while, OW is out of the icture for good you must take charge.
> Never, never reveal your sources, just evaluate his actions and acts according you doesn't need to tell him a thing about "how you know", just that "you know".


:iagree: I doubt they will just go cold turkey, both of them, now that you are finally putting your foot down. He needs to be committed to you, i.e., committed to NC, and he needs to prove that. Anything less would have me walking out the door.

Just try to remember that he has treated you like the negligible variable in the mix. This means that it didn't matter that he was hurting you.

It has to matter to him that he is hurting you. If it doesn't, what kind of relationship is there? If he suddenly sees this light, the NC will be something that he knows he has to do and he will want to do it and make up for the years that he has been hurting and devaluing you. If I were you, I would demand this from him. If he doesn't feel it or fights you on it, then find your greener pastures. You're worth more than the cr*ppy reliable backup plan he has turned you into.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Oh, and please don't tiptoe around what he has done when you talk to other people. Use the old, reliable words. Tell your friends that he's had a girlfriend for several years and you are just finding out about it. You don't have to go into details.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

I went out for an hour or so this evening to set my friends straight on my "poor Husband". They know exactly where I stand on this. They don't like it but I really couldn't give a flying monkey. In fact. It makes it easier to be tough on all of the BS I've had to listen to over the years. My family are due in a few minutes. They can wake up too. 


I. Mrs Martian. Have got with the programme.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> Maybe I should explain. It is my friends and family wanting to excuse him. Not me. I love the man but know full well he's behaved like a stinker and certainly doesn't walk on water! I've been very lucky to find this site. Thank you for the level headed straight talking.


No I understood where you were coming from and who needs the education. No one should excuse bad behavior. In our state their was recent law where we can get a "V" put on our driver's liscense to show we are Veterans. If we get into trouble we are sent to Veterans court, because they found that certain Veterans exhibit certain behaviors and are sent for help. Does not excuse behavior just shows that the courts understand and has a new system set in place.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Marriage guidance starts Monday. The assessment anyway. Don't know if I'm supposed to be this worried.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Mrsmartian said:


> Hi, me again.
> I cannot seem to find out any more about my WH, OW.
> It is difficult as they are having an online affair. They've never met. In order to expose her and make her Husband aware of all thats happened. I need to have my facts straight. It would also be really useful to know who he is and how to contact him. Also, they lie. Not just to me. But to each other. Don't they?
> 
> ...


Those don't sound like very good friends. They should tell you that no matter what he's done for others, he needs to treat you with honor and respect. It is real, it's as real as it gets.. he's not surfing porn, he's actually interacting with other humans. If one of these 'friends' were in the same situation, they'd feel the same way. I'd guess they are more friends of his, than yours. Find someone to talk to that will support you, don't bring up the topic to those "friends" anymore.

Being a 'hero' (aka fireman, police or military) is not a license to be an ahole... or to treat people with disrespect and cruelty. PTSD is also no excuse.. many people say that a BS suffers PTSD like symptoms from discovery, so you aren't too far away from having PTSD yourself.. thanks to your hero.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Counselling was fraught! He hated me talking about what he'd done. I could feel him getting more and more tense the longer I spoke.
He basically said he'd always, his whole life had a secret persona. That I knew that and NOW it was a problem?
I don't know what he means by that. Not a clue.
He walked out at one point. Returning to suddenly being understanding and placating. Saying he loved me but still believed he hasn't done anything. To him it was just a fantasy.
The more I think about this. The weirder it seems. 
Is this him, or his mental illness. 
I have to admit. I'm rather frightened. I think I've lost him. That lovely person I met. I think a combination of mental illness and previously inert selfishness have made him almost unrecognisable.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It very important for you to realize this.. what you see is what you get. Yes this is him now. 

Now you need to decide if you are willing to live with this or you are going to leave and save your own sanity.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Compartmentalizing is nothing new to people who want their cake and eat it, too. Perhaps your WH has just done this his whole life.

I'm hoping that you won't swallow this 'secret life' excuse. Just because he rationalizes the way he betrays you, doesn't make it OK.

This is up to you. He gets to keep a girlfriend in his 'secret life' compartment if you allow him to act like this is some special dysfunction of his personality. It really just sounds like a typical cheater's script, though - nothing special about it. He wants his cake and wants you to let him have it. I wouldn't put up with that in a NY minute.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

You are seeing him for as he really is. A manipulative liar.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

I wrote that when I got home after counselling. All weepy and woe is me.
You're all very good at pulling us wobbly people up by our boot straps by reminding us what is going on. See, it never occurred to me he was being manipulative! How daft am I!
Don't answer that...


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

That's why I come here. When the one person you always went to when you needed a shoulder, some sympathy, someone to tell you that everything is going to be OK, to tell you the truth, is the one who is hurting you and lying to you, where do you go? 

That's why many of us don't know at first that we can't believe them when they tell us things when they first get caught in an A. They seem so sincere, so truthful, I'm telling you everything, they say, until you find out they are not and then you come here to get some perspective.

I have visited SI to see what people are saying there, and while there a a few helpful people there many of them are not giving the BS the real story. They are wishing them well and giving them hugs, nice, but not what is needed. One of them believed her WS when he told her there was no 'real sex' just kissing and BJs and he did not reciprocate. Really? and no one but me said 'are you sure?" 'Why would you believe him now?" It was surreal.

I was shocked at the initial response I got here, but I guess I needed to be.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

PamJ said:


> That's why I come here. When the one person you always went to when you needed a shoulder, some sympathy, someone to tell you that everything is going to be OK, to tell you the truth, is the one who is hurting you and lying to you, where do you go?
> 
> 
> That's why many of us don't know at first that we can't believe them when they tell us things when they first get caught in an A. They seem so sincere, so truthful, I'm telling you everything, they say, until you find out they are not and then you come here to get some perspective.
> ...


I'm shocked. Mostly at my willingness to believe whatever comes out of his mouth. I have to come here to shake myself awake.
What is "SI"? I've read a lot on this site. And read and re read the advice for newbies. It takes a while to sink in, doesn't it.


I can't say this often enough, People such as yourself are beyond kind. I don't know what i'd have done...well, actually. I do, i'd have forgiven him again only to get a further kick in the teeth somewhere along the line.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<I'm shocked. Mostly at my willingness to believe whatever comes out of his mouth. I have to come here to shake myself awake.
What is "SI"? I've read a lot on this site. And read and re read the advice for newbies. It takes a while to sink in, doesn't it.


I can't say this often enough, People such as yourself are beyond kind. I don't know what i'd have done...well, actually. I do, i'd have forgiven him again only to get a further kick in the teeth somewhere along the line.>.

SI is Surviving Infidelity, another forum place but there is not as much real help and advice there and not as many people with experience in affairs that stay on there and tell people the real deal. Threads don't go far, people don't get much advice, just a lot of hand holding and sorries. I don't need sorries, I need real advice from real people who have dealt with this stuff. I may not use all of it but it gives me info and perspective to make better decisions and set hard boundaries now.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

PamJ said:


> I don't need sorries, I need real advice from real people who have dealt with this stuff. I may not use all of it but it gives me info and perspective to make better decisions and set hard boundaries now.


I agree, PamJ. And OP's hard boundaries, in my opinion, are now to tell her H that he certainly has a right to live a 'secret life,' but he can do it without her in it.

It's actually mind-boggling when you think about it. A spouse declaring a complete free pass on any behavior because he/she has 'always had a secret life.' What a dysfunctional thing to stand on ceremony about. He's actually just saying that he thought you always knew he was a liar.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

It is puzzling isn't it. If anyone else gave me this much flannel. They'd have been sent on their way.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what's your plan?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> So what's your plan?


I don't think I have any choice.I know we've only had one marriage guidance session. But he was so awful. I don't think it's going to be any help. I shall have to go out get a job and chuck him out..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Chuck him out...neat term!

Make sure you take time for some stress relief and meditation, or something similar. Take care of yourself.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

It's very easy for me to make grand statements about what I'm going to do. Not so straightforward in real terms.
Like it or not the years of taking care of him and worrying about his well being are nigh on impossible to break.

I know nothing is ever easy. Radical life overhauls whilst in theory, sound liberating. A marvellous thing! When it comes down to it. I have many hurdles to negotiate. Even if you dismiss my ingrained sense of responsibility toward him. There is the fact of my daughter writ large, in neon. Her life is already a daily challenge. Her circle is tiny. The impact of my decisions. Enormous.

I'm not asking for sympathy. I don't expect there's a lot that can be said. If I write it down here, it saves it running amok in my head, all day and night.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Take things one step at a time, even if they are very small steps. Think of what you need to do to extricate yourself. Think logically about this. Let the feeling overwhelm you at other times. For your thinking and planning, stay cold-blooded.

One step each day. Get something done that moves you closer to freedom from his betrayals.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrsmartian said:


> It's very easy for me to make grand statements about what I'm going to do. Not so straightforward in real terms.
> Like it or not the years of taking care of him and worrying about his well being are nigh on impossible to break.


That's what a therapist is for.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

It isn't just about me and him, or what I want.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't understand.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

I have his mental health problems. His doctors are not impressed I made him go to counselling without consulting them. They told me that I could have set him back months and that if I continue putting him under stress, he could very well end up committed again.
Then I have my autistic child, who cannot accept that things have to change. She's picked up on the bad feeling between WH and me..this has lead to some very challenging behaviour. He is one of the only people she interacts with.
My family. They are disgusted that I am treating an online affair as An Affair. They feel I am being ridiculous and far too dramatic.
I can't find a job. I'm not even sure who is right any more.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

First, your family members would immediately change their tunes if they were on the receiving end of the pain of an online affair, so I urge you to put that as much in the background as possible.

Your life is complicated and it doesn't seem like there are any easy answers. This is completely understandable.

So, just ask yourself some dealbreaker questions. Do you want to continue to live with your WH if he continues his A?

If the answer is 'no,' then everything else must flow from that. He must go NC. If he won't, then you get your ducks in line to separate. You will take care of your daughter in all of this. You have no choice. She will have her world upset one way or another - either because he stays in the marriage and in the A, or because you choose to divorce. You love her and will do your best to get her through it.

Try to take the higher-order view to inform your choices. Can you live with his A? If the answer is 'no,' then make your next choice, etc.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

alte Dame, 

I admit. This is not turning out quite as I expected. I seem to be getting censure and blame from all around.
You are of course, right. I do have to make choices. As things stand at the the moment, WH has said that they have no contact. He wrote her an email and that was that. Of course, i know for a fact she contacted him again. I read the email. However, since that point. I suspect he goes incognito. All i've managed to do is drive it underground.

We have spoken extensively about what went on. He saying all the right things about feeling terrible that he hurt me. His apologies...
Then later on in that conversation. He can lose his temper and rant about it only being harmless and he cannot believe I'm making him stop doing something he finds so much fun.
Yes, he really does. And you and me both know. We aint talking cricket here. 
I do have terrible crisis of confidence. I know how this is going to go. He won't stop. I shall have to leave. I'm not a wimp, doormat or indeed, as crazy as I'm painted.
It is merely the slow realisation that I will be doing all this alone. With scorn and resentment following close at my heels.
I suppose really, I've always had that. It only took this for me to see.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The more quickly and forcefully you file and/or leave, the better chance you have of saving your marriage. He thinks you'll hang around and wait patiently for him. As soon as you show him you won't, you have a 50/50 chance of him waking up and saying 'wait, don't go!' It just won't happen while you're patiently waiting for him at home. You have to be willing to lose your marriage, to save it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have my sympathy in all of this. I know what it's like to be alone in a very tough situation. I remember a time where I found myself talking to myself to raise my own spirits & said, 'Well, AD, it looks like nobody out there is going to take care of you but you.' And I was right. So I just plodded through. I know it's hard.

If he's resentful of you and indignant, you indeed do not have a good prognosis for NC.

One thing I can say is that the way you parse your words to people can help a lot in the way they react to you. People under duress tend to explain way too much and get defensive, asking implicitly for understanding.

In your situation, I would keep my explanations both to the WH and to others as simple and old-school as possible, e.g.:

'My H has a girlfriend that he doesn't want to give up and I didn't sign on for that.'

'I'm not going to be a fifth wheel in my own marriage.'

'I've been patient and understanding, but he won't give up his girlfriend.'

Don't talk about EA's or online affairs. Refer to her as his girlfriend or mistress. Keep it simple. If someone asks you how you know, just say 'I've seen their conversations. I know. Any idiot would know.'

When your H reacts indignantly, try not to get defensive. Just say it's not really your choice. It's his. He 'can have his fun with his girlfriend or he can have his marriage.'

Again, simple, straightforward, strong, confident words, even when you're not feeling them.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Yes, I see what I have done. Should have kept it simple. Not confused the issue. If I'd just said he had a girlfriend...
We went together this morning for a meeting with his mental health team. Whilst it was difficult and fraught. It was also very useful. To all of us. I think they gained some insight into what I'm dealing with and WH finally started to see why his statements about needing a "secret life" would be misconstrued as an eff you to our marriage. Plus, whilst it was an awkward discussion. We even managed to laugh a tiny bit at how ridiculously petulant he is being.
Of course. They are not marriage counsellors but I do at least feel less under attack. For let's face it. Trying to stop something, that if it were anyone else without mental illness, people would expect me to want to do.

I did state clearly, that if he didn't stop immediately, then his care team would be looking for somewhere for him to live VERY soon.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Surely just because your WH is their patient, they wouldn't want you living in misery just to accommodate him, would they? It can't be all for him and nothing for you , or, soon enough, YOU would be there seeking help yourself.

I can understand feeling some compassion for him and not throwing him to the wolves but you shouldn't have to suffer while he uses his mental health issues to lock you into this ill-fated 'marriage'.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrsmartian said:


> I did state clearly, that if he didn't stop immediately, then his care team would be looking for somewhere for him to live VERY soon.


 Perfect.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Pam J. I don't think they intend to obligate me. However, they are all about his care and welfare. So anything that upsets his status quo, worries them.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Rightio. Didn't sleep last night. I think I might have done something daft. Went onto WH email while he was asleep. OW new email dropped into his inbox as I was checking. Its title is "Where did you go?" Early morning/late night email was common between them.

So, what I did was. Forwarded the email to myself and then deleted all trace of it from his inbox. As I'm writing this my stomach is churning and I have a sense of dread. 

It just seemed like a really good idea at the time. In the early hours. I was going to write back to her. Just hadn't quite decided what! I do know it wasn't going to be nice. I haven't read it even though I'm dying to. 

There is this overwhelming resentment and hatred for her, inside me. Yet still I know writing some poison pen letter, will fix nothing and I will have a very short lived, warped sense of justice.

Do you think I should own up? Tell him we'll read it together? Or what? I hate what I have become. I feel like slime.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That was an EXCELLENT idea, MrsM. Good for you. FIGHT the affair. He wants to carry on an affair IN YOUR HOUSE? Them's fightin' words. All's fair, you know? She'll get pissed off at him and start going off on him and he'll start seeing her true colors. Good job.

And NEVER EVER apologize for messing up his affair carried on IN YOUR HOUSE. He wants another woman? MOVE OUT.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have to understand, though, that your anger is misplaced. It SHOULD be focused with laser-like intensity on THE ONE WHO CHEATED ON YOU - your husband. I know you're not mad at him because you're scared he'll leave you. But you need to learn to be ok with yourself, love yourself, and thus GET MAD AS HELL at him for daring to do this to you. If you can't reach that anger - at HIM, you'll likely lose out and spend years in agony.

Are you in therapy?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Oh no! Make no mistake. I am spitting fury at both of them over this. It was a fantasy at the beginning. She knew soon enough about me. I've seen the email. I was mad at her when I saw the new email. No Contact he said. She's been emailing him still. Frankly, I could wring her bloody neck.

I am in therapy, yes. Originally it was to help me cope with my HUGE responsibilities and the toll my caring role took on my life. Obviously my therapist has had to shift focus onto this for now.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You question yourself because you are an honorable person. Your reaction speaks well of you. At the same time, NC is the only way. It is your condition. You have every right to guarantee that it happens in your own home.

He should change his e-mail address and you should monitor to try to stop him from getting his address to her. She clearly didn't get the NC message & perhaps that's because he never told her there would be no more contact (?).


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

I watched him write and send the no contact email. He's told me about others and said that he ignores and deletes them. So, yes alte dame, there have been failings on my part, haven't there? I left it open to abuse. I know that he instigated new contact with her, after previous no contact emails. So again, I trusted a liar!

I loathe myself. For tripping myself up. For snooping. For wanting to run away and never return. For lots of things.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you feel trapped and are perhaps punishing yourself for putting yourself in an untenable position, one that forces you to make decisions that you don't necessarily respect or agree with. You took responsibility for a man with serious issues and you have a daughter who is dependent on you. When the man you promised to love and care for treats you with such disrespect, you are well and truly stuck & it's easy to feel both stupid for finding yourself in this position and guilty for doing what you know you have to do.

Your only true obligations are to your daughter and to yourself. Your WH is playing a dishonest game with you and you are reacting with honesty and honor. Sadly, this will typically put you at a disadvantage - his willingness to lie is an effective weapon for him.

My real feeling about this is to urge you simply to draw a line in the sand and to follow through. He hasn't really accepted NC, it seems. If he wants a 'secret persona', aka affair, he can live his life with someone else. You and your daughter can start to rebuild your lives together without him. You both will survive and probably thrive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He hasn't accepted NC. If he had, he would have either blocked her or changed his email. He is feeding his ego.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I have over 39 years in the military. I have PTSD from my combat in Iraq. I am a professional counselor and I deal primarily with Veterans who have PTSD.

1. It is BS when family members and others say it is not that bad what he did. Your feelings, emotions, etc all point to the very proven fact that an EA has a very devastating affect. The data shows that woman have a more difficult time dealing with an spouse who has an EA then a PA, and it is typically reverse for a male.
2. An EA takes quite a bit of time to get over and I will emphasize again that an EA is very damaging to the BS. That is a clinical verifyable fact.
3. Screw the fact that he is a hero. Seriously. I have a bronze star and a combat action badge. I am a freaken hero. That does not give me the right to live a screwed up life by lying and cheating on my spouse. I tell my Veterans that everyday. We understand various behaviors related to PTSD but that is not a liscence to practise wrong behavior.
4. And please stop with the loathing of thy self for snooping etc. You are his freaken wife. You have that right (IMO). You only help him by keeping him honest and accountable.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

"3. Screw the fact that he is a hero. Seriously. I have a bronze star and a combat action badge. I am a freaken hero. That does not give me the right to live a screwed up life by lying and cheating on my spouse."

Hey Thorburn, if it wasn't for my silly family and sillier friends. The word Hero would have been kept in the correct box, marked "For the use of"

However, from now on. I may very well correct them when they use it. It's "Freaken Hero" actually. Thank you very much. Go home!

Your points. They are totally valid. Of course.

I am however struggling with the covert int. gathering. It makes me feel like i need a good scrub. I don't like it. It isn't what I signed up for. Although it is utterly necessary. This is true.

Now, I know why he did it. Listened to his reasons. If i wasn't married to him. I could maybe have even understood a little.
BUT.

I am married to him. I've never forgotten that. Never wanted to. Even for a minute. He however, cannot say the same. 

Honest and accountable. I shall be keeping that with me. For all the stories and the decoration mean nothing without that in all aspects of a life.

Thanks for reminding me.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Ok, we have a chance to leave for a few weeks. My daughter and I. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

On one hand it could make it easier for him to be online. On the other it might shock the heck out of him. Make him realise I'm not kidding.

She wrote to him again. I did the same thing. Took it. Forwarded to myself. Deleted it from his history.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> "3. Screw the fact that he is a hero. Seriously. I have a bronze star and a combat action badge. I am a freaken hero. That does not give me the right to live a screwed up life by lying and cheating on my spouse."
> 
> Hey Thorburn, if it wasn't for my silly family and sillier friends. The word Hero would have been kept in the correct box, marked "For the use of"
> 
> ...


Let me say this. You will never forget it. And can never forget it. You can forgive, you can work past it, you can even reconcile, but you will never forget. Don't let any of those things cause you to second guess yourself. Remembering what he did is not a bad thing. It helps you to remember that he's only human. But holding on to that memory and keeping it the focus of everything is only going to hurt you in the long run. You can reconcile and still protect yourself from further pain. You can come to eventually forgive him without condoning what he did. And you can forgive him without staying married to him too. Its all up to you. Its on your timeline. Focus on yourself for a while. If he's up to something you will find out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Before I advise whether to go or not, what is your status? Is it 'if you contact her again I'm filing'? Or is it 'will you stay with me?'


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

It is. If you contact her again. I am filing.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If you want to take the trip, it's my opinion that you should take it. I tend to prefer direct communication, so my approach would probably be to tell him again that it will be divorce if he contacts her & then take the trip and monitor/check his behavior as accurately as possible.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Forgot to ask: are you two 'reconciling?' Are you trying to fix your marriage, then? Is he remorseful or mad? What specifically are you two doing at this stage - fixing your marriage or just coexisting because he doesn't want to be divorced?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> Forgot to ask: are you two 'reconciling?' Are you trying to fix your marriage, then? Is he remorseful or mad? What specifically are you two doing at this stage - fixing your marriage or just coexisting because he doesn't want to be divorced?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Co existing because he needs day to day support. Because it is my daughters safe place, her home. She relies on him enormously. For emotional care really. She has learning disabilities/autism.
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What I mean is, do you WANT him to see you sticking it to him by going away and make him miss you or something? Or do you want to show him a Plan A where you are a great wife who meets all his needs and he sees what he almost threw away? If it's the former, go on the trip. If it's the latter, stay for now and ramp up your Plan A.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> If you want to take the trip, it's my opinion that you should take it. I tend to prefer direct communication, so my approach would probably be to tell him again that it will be divorce if he contacts her & then take the trip and monitor/check his behavior as accurately as possible.


I don't know if I want to! It was offered to me and I thought it might help me by allowing an escape from the drama. Prove to him that this really isn't going to blow over.

I could take her with me and arrange for cover for his care. He will hate that but no one (family) can accuse me of abandoning him to fend for himself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrsmartian said:


> Co existing because he needs day to day support.


Maybe I missed it, but why is this, exactly? The PTSD has him in such an emotional state that he can't wipe his own butt or something? He walks out in front of a car?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Turnera. I don't know. That's why I was asking for opinion. What would be the best thing to do. Go away and see if he misses me. Or stay and hope the penny drops that I'm pretty spectacular. Real, even.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I guess if it were me, it would depend on whether he's really contacting her or not. If he is, I'd be gone in a heartbeat, and he'd be getting something from my attorney. But if he is truly giving her up and SAYING and ACTING like he's recommitted to the marriage, going away negates what you are telling him - that this marriage is where he needs to be.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

He needs someone supervising his meds. Otherwise, yes. The sh!t hits the fan. Not immediately but it doesn't take long. Happily, he can manage his own bodily functions.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

He does say he isn't contacting her. He does act committed. However, she is still writing to him. He still won't allow me to talk about it without getting angry that all hell has broken loose because he needed a harmless, secret escape.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> He does say he isn't contacting her. He does act committed. However, she is still writing to him. He still won't allow me to talk about it without getting angry that all hell has broken loose because he needed a harmless, secret escape.


This may sound somewhat cruel but if he is that bad that he not only cannot seem to control his actions but cannot be left alone then maybe he needs to be in-patient? Are you quite sure that he is not using his condition as an excuse for his behavior and to keep you on his leash?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

bfree said:


> This may sound somewhat cruel but if he is that bad that he not only cannot seem to control his actions but cannot be left alone then maybe he needs to be in-patient? Are you quite sure that he is not using his condition as an excuse for his behavior and to keep you on his leash?


He's been an in patient on and off for a few years. Right now his illness is well managed. There is of course a recognised element of co dependency. He depends on me being there to help. His doctors rely on my knowledge of his symptoms and our closeness. I feel responsible for him. Right or wrong. He's been...well WE have been through an awful lot together.

Perhaps this is why I am so hurt and torn.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> He's been an in patient on and off for a few years. Right now his illness is well managed. There is of course a recognised element of co dependency. He depends on me being there to help. His doctors rely on my knowledge of his symptoms and our closeness. I feel responsible for him. Right or wrong. He's been...well WE have been through an awful lot together.
> 
> Perhaps this is why I am so hurt and torn.


I understand but at some point you also have to have be able to focus on yourself a bit. If you're always giving and never get anything positive back you will eventually self destruct. If he is able to manage himself then he is also able to control his behavior and accept the consequences of his actions. You are NOT responsible for him any more than I am responsible for my wife and she for me. We are all responsible for ourselves. Do we require help at times? Yes. Do spouses have some responsibility for helping our mates? Yes. But ultimately the burden falls on ourselves. You cannot control him so stop pretending that you can.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Controlling him is not what I'm after. At all. I've been asked questions about my life with him. I've tried to explain the best I can. If it appears that I'm some sort of control freak, then I've obviously screwed up somewhere in these posts.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't think anyone thinks you're a control freak. We're all just trying to put the pieces together to try to respond.

For me, if I were really on the fence about taking the trip, I would stay home and work on things. 

One of the main issues seems to me to be your WH's minimizing of what he's done, as if his 'secret life' is just fine and, as you say, 'harmless.' If it hurts you this much, it by definition isn't harmless. Whether you go away on a trip won't really affect this dynamic, I don't think, i.e., I don't see how it will make him empathetic enough to begin to understand the seriousness of his affair.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> Controlling him is not what I'm after. At all. I've been asked questions about my life with him. I've tried to explain the best I can. If it appears that I'm some sort of control freak, then I've obviously screwed up somewhere in these posts.


I didn't think at all that you were a control freak. On the contrary. I want you to completely divest yourself from the thought that you could possibly have any control over him and his behavior. Nothing you did, do or will do has any bearing on his actions. When I said stop pretending I meant not to put any of the blame or guilt from his actions on yourself regardless of his disability. He is his own person. the responsibility for his choices rests with him. Therefore you are only responsible for your choices and some of those choices need to be what is best for you. Otherwise you are going to lose yourself in the relationship and in him. You have received a serious blow to your self esteem and to your level of trust. You should be able to take time to center yourself and deal with your emotional turmoil and not have to worry about him and his issues.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I don't think anyone thinks you're a control freak. We're all just trying to put the pieces together to try to respond.
> 
> For me, if I were really on the fence about taking the trip, I would stay home and work on things.
> 
> One of the main issues seems to me to be your WH's minimizing of what he's done, as if his 'secret life' is just fine and, as you say, 'harmless.' If it hurts you this much, it by definition isn't harmless. Whether you go away on a trip won't really affect this dynamic, I don't think, i.e., I don't see how it will make him empathetic enough to begin to understand the seriousness of his affair.


No I apologise, the control thing touched a nerve. That's something his brothers say i'm doing, trying to get him to admit to an affair when he hasn't done anything at all.

The main issue IS that, exactly.

I won't go. Basically because I think it will do more harm than good. It was an opportunity for me to run off and stick my head in the sand, I think. 

I do feel quite frustrated.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bfree said:


> This may sound somewhat cruel but if he is that bad that he not only cannot seem to control his actions but cannot be left alone then maybe he needs to be in-patient? Are you quite sure that he is not using his condition as an excuse for his behavior and to keep you on his leash?


In the UK we tend to use "Care In The Community" with limited access to psychiatric hospitals for in patient now, as they are considered 'old fashioned.'


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> In the UK we tend to use "Care In The Community" with limited access to psychiatric hospitals for in patient now, as they are considered 'old fashioned.'


In other words. People like me. Do a lot of the work. Untrained. If you don't have anyone, life can be extremely difficult.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> In other words. People like me. Do a lot of the work. Untrained. If you don't have anyone, life can be extremely difficult.


If he's ex-forces, how about Royal British Legion or SSAFA | National Armed Forces Charity


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrsmartian said:


> He does say he isn't contacting her. *He does act committed*. However, she is still writing to him. He still won't allow me to talk about it without getting angry that all hell has broken loose because *he needed a harmless, secret escape*.


These two do not correspond. If he thinks what he did is harmless, he will just cheat on your again. He doesn't get it. He lives his life for HIMSELF, not for YOU. You're just part of what he wants to make himself happy.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> If he's ex-forces, how about Royal British Legion or SSAFA | National Armed Forces Charity


The RBL was a life saver in the beginning. I sell poppies for them now to try to pay them back. Trouble with squaddies. They don't like asking for help. The saving grace for me was, i wasn't an army wife. All that nonsense didn't wash with me.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> These two do not correspond. If he thinks what he did is harmless, he will just cheat on your again. He doesn't get it. He lives his life for HIMSELF, not for YOU. You're just part of what he wants to make himself happy.


It certainly seems to be that way, doesn't it. He isn't alone in his thinking. Conveniently for him. A lot of people think I'm wreaking havoc by creating a problem.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's well-known and accepted on a forum like this that EA's are extremely hurtful and damaging, but the wider world doesn't really have that sensibility yet. It's my opinion that recognition of the damaging effects is growing expressly because technology is breeding the conditions for EA's & more and more people are affected.

Turnera is right, I believe. It's all about what he thinks and feels and he doesn't process that it's not OK to hurt you. He thinks the way many self-absorbed people think. He and his brothers blow off your pain because they judge it minor. It's all about what they think & no credence is given to the validity of your feelings. Believe me, MM, these people, all of them, would change their tunes in a NY minute if they were the ones on the receiving end. This is another observation that is common here.

I will ask if you have read Shirley Glass's 'Not Just Friends'? This is old enough that it doesn't really account for the online issue that you face, but it describes the seriousness of the EA betrayal very well.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

The thing about online only affairs is, they have to actively seek out people who want to do this cyber stuff. Real time/life EAs seem to be to be rather more accidental? Something that builds over time. At least most of them do.
The OA whilst it often develops into an EA, starts from a far more insidious deliberately instigated place.

I know he had to do a lot of trawling. Discarding people along the way. Until he found the one capable and willing to fit what he was after. In his case, I know it took a number of years and this woman is difficult for him to let go of now.

I hope this reads as coherent. I'm not trying to explain his particular affair. Rather more how I personally believe internet affairs, in my opinion, transcend becoming infatuated with a colleague etc.

Not intended to downplay EA. Whatsoever.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Mrsmartian said:


> The thing about online only affairs is, they have to actively seek out people who want to do this cyber stuff. Real time/life EAs seem to be to be rather more accidental? Something that builds over time. At least most of them do.
> The OA whilst it often develops into an EA, starts from a far more insidious deliberately instigated place.
> 
> I know he had to do a lot of trawling. Discarding people along the way. Until he found the one capable and willing to fit what he was after. In his case, I know it took a number of years and this woman is difficult for him to let go of now.
> ...


My wife had an EA in 2010. The XOM had a bunch and I mean quite a few ladies he was doing this with and my wife was just one of them. I found out about these other women because when I confronted him via email he had attached a bunch of other emails (he was not very bright and did not know he did this) and one woman told him her husband found out and the XOM was worried that her husband would come after him, so these emails, were somehow attached to the one he sent me apologizing for his actions.

The I love you's, my wife pleading with him not to break up with her, etc, and they only knew each other about a month, was just sickening.

EA's are very damaging. I can see where people like your BIL's are coming from. But they don't get it. Does not take long to look up online what the experts say about how damaging an EA is to the BS.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> My wife had an EA in 2010. The XOM had a bunch and I mean quite a few ladies he was doing this with and my wife was just one of them. I found out about these other women because when I confronted him via email he had attached a bunch of other emails (he was not very bright and did not know he did this) and one woman told him her husband found out and the XOM was worried that her husband would come after him, so these emails, were somehow attached to the one he sent me apologizing for his actions.
> 
> The I love you's, my wife pleading with him not to break up with her, etc, and they only knew each other about a month, was just sickening.
> 
> EA's are very damaging. I can see where people like your BIL's are coming from. But they don't get it. Does not take long to look up online what the experts say about how damaging an EA is to the BS.


WH has been talking to this particular one for years. After talking about it FINALLY, he admitted that he even talked to her everyday whilst he was in the hospital on the secure unit. How she helped him get through it. Their incredibly close bond...after all her support through the worst episode of his life. When he felt so alone...

I was only working 3 jobs. Looking after my child. Nursing my dying Mother AND visiting him everyday. I'm such an inconsiderate wretch. If only I'd paid more attention to what was important. HIM!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sad to say, IME, many men believe that. That the woman SHOULD shoulder all that and be his amazing sex goddess, too. I blame their mothers.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

turnera said:


> Sad to say, IME, many men believe that. That the woman SHOULD shoulder all that and be his amazing sex goddess, too. I blame their mothers.


This. Is perfect. Made me laugh out loud. So loud that it shocked him!


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Good news. I managed to get a job! Only temporary for now, but it's a good start I think.

Bad news. He went out today and apparently bumped into a friend of mine. She told him I'd told her about his affair. That I'd told anyone who would listen!

He came home in an absolute rage. I have betrayed him. Our marriage. Everything! Was I satisfied? We are now a joke...

I told him I doubted they were laughing at ME. If they were, so what? It was nothing to how it felt after reading the awful jokes his girlfriend and he, made about me.

He's on his computer now. Typing angrily. Aw well. Gives me something to read later.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"We are now a joke."

"You're right - we ARE a joke. This marriage is a sham and you've stained it by committing adultery. I want a divorce."

You did very well, though! And congrats on the job!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Mrsmartian said:


> I told him I doubted they were laughing at ME. If they were, so what? It was nothing to how it felt after reading the awful jokes his girlfriend and he, made about me.


This went on for years, right?

What is his response when you call him out on things like this? Does he feel any shame?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

It has been going on for 5 or 6 years. He acts embarrassed. I wouldn't call it shame. He looks...annoyed. Yeah. Annoyed, embarrassed and irritated.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

annoyed, embarrassed, irritated. The only salvageable emotion out of that mix is the embarrassed part. He SHOULD be embarrassed among many other things.

The annoyed and irritated part means he is not capable of understanding what he has done, at least at this point, if ever.
Unless he does, there is no hope with him, I am afraid.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I agree. 5 or 6 years. He's very deeply dug in with this and doesn't seem to care that he has hurt you. He's not really emotionally committed to you. At best, he's equally committed to two women.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

but they've never met. I just do not get it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Is the fact that they haven't met driving your decision to reconcile? He's been having a specific type of EA & he's clearly very invested. His admissions regarding the way he relied on her when he was in the hospital indicate an intimate attachment, not just playing around.

There's a TAM poster who started talking online to an old friend (not even an ex, I don't think) - someone he hadn't seen in many years. He had a new baby and a wife whom he admittedly adored, but the online talk turned to EA in under 6 weeks. He said his feelings for the OW were so intense that it took him close to 2 years to decompress from it. He says it was very real to him; he never saw her, hadn't seen her in decades, but their intimate conversation hooked him. To this day, he can't understand how he developed such deep feelings in such a short period of time without physically being near the person.

5 or 6 years is a long time. Have you ruled out divorce?


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Mrsmartian said:


> but they've never met. I just do not get it.



Neither had my FWH and his OW (2). Didn't matter, in fact, it was probably
more difficult to detach because of this. There was no harsh reality as to who they were. They were perfect, always. Always portraying the best side of themselves, and not even their real selves.

The second OW lied about many things to make herself seem more desirable. How would he know otherwise , as he never met her IRL?

She lied about silly things, sent a picture of a big beautiful modern house she supposedly lived in, which she doesn't. I know, I did the research. I think it is because H sent her a pic of our house done up for Christmas, actually my son and_ I_ did it all, my H had nothing to do with it-which ticked me off. And it's larger and newer than hers.

She sent a picture of herself from 20-30 years ago and tried to tell him it was a current pic. When she sent a more recent picture of her with members of an NFL team (which she knew he'd think was super cool as my H is a football fanatic) and he noticed she looked "different" (older & heavier) she said it was because she was not wearing makeup.

She even lied about her middle name, which is the same as mine. I believe it is because she knew it was the same as mine and didn't want that connection. Which means to me she had been checking me out, probably through H's FB pics and by a basic google search as my name is in many places due to our family and business etc.

So, yeah, in this case it's better (worse for me) that they don't meet, that way the fantasy never meets the hard reality of normal human flaws.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

I haven't ruled out anything. Things aren't going to go away, are they?
I said "I just don't get it". I think I do. Really. Especially now i've read these two comments.
Pam J. It is true. In their relationship. He can be who he was. He doesn't need to live under the burden of being who he is now.

By the same token. There is no way on this earth she looks like her photograph. Not and settle for never seeing this gorgeous hunk of man who she loves more than anything else.

I am utterly defeated. When we met it was this big sweep me off my feet romance. It came later in my life. When i'd stopped believing things like that happened.

I adored him. He adored me. We started our life and it was good. We had a sweet little wedding. He spoke his vows. It was poetic and heartfelt. Pretty.

Even then. There was her.

He gradually got sick. I took great care of him. Willing him to get better. He just didn't seem to improve. No matter what they did. They could not help him. He became more of a danger to himself. 

Turning his fear inside. On himself. I had to make the terrible decision that he needed to be hospitalised. With his parents help. I managed to get him in. He was there, for the first time, several months.

Perhaps. He never got over that.

There she was. He never told her he had lost his mind. I don't know how he did it. I don't know how she didn't see it.

But, I suppose. His intensity. She could have found exciting. Wild? I dunno, I read in one of her emails to him. That she was a keen Wuthering Heights fan.

I wish that was a joke. You know it isn't.

I cannot compete with perfect. I am the one who has been left behind. In the real world. Dealing with day to day boring stuff. Like paying bills. Scheduling appointments. Making sure he keeps them. Giving him his meds. 

He knows who I am. Knows for sure what I look like. Nearly 8 years of drama and heartache and worry and fear. Have taken a toll. 

He tells me he loves me. Wonders what he'd do without me. How will he survive. Though he resents me. For trying to take her away.

She doesn't want to stop. Despite knowing about me. She isn't going to stop. I know that last year. While they were briefly FB friends. She checked me out.

I don't know why i'm still bothered. Why I haven't given up. My feeling about it all. Changes by hours.

I know really, that it's likely pointless. I write here. Because it helps. I read here. Because i see i'm not alone. 

It was me and him against the world.

But. Not really.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If he had any real remorse and empathy for your hurt, that would be something for you to start to rebuild with. As it is, it seems like you are just gradually mourning the loss of your relationship and you will eventually reach a point where you can detach in order to truly save yourself.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I think they don't always appreciate those that take care of them, run the household, take care of the kids, make their appointments, pay the bills etc. Sometimes they are even resentful, see us as their keepers maybe.

Years ago at the time of my H's first EA, I was responsible for everything bad. His unhappiness. I was holding him back, from what? I don't know. 

He wanted to move to FLA. I hate the heat and humidity, he knows this, but I was being unreasonable as he was miserable in the cold winters. We made a life here and he is was changing the game but would sacrifice my unhappiness in FLA for his here. So I was the bad guy.

The truth is our business would not work in FLA and would be too risky and costly to start over there. But, I am still to blame.

The OW did not challenge him on anything, so were perfect.

Only after it ended with the last one did he tell me that towards the end he started not to like her as much and that she was a know-it-all, not perfect material for the perfect online fantasy after all. But of course, this was divulged to me AFTER I found out about her, again, and after NC for a while.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

What happened, after you found out they broke NC? What did you do?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Have decided to move out with my daughter. A lot has happened in a short time. The main thing being I have realised my own worth.

I am unsure of the future and his involvement in it. Can be utterly sure that sticking around while nothing changes is going to make me ill.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Very proud of you.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Ditto. You are brave and strong.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good luck MM. This will make you stronger, even though it does not seem like it now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Let us know how you are doing.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you all for your support. Friends are in very short supply of late. So it's great to have people who want nothing from me but to share experiences and share strength.

I have found a flat. It is very small but it has a room for my daughter and is not too far off her normal route to school. So she can stay on her regular bus! Good news, as it means one less change to throw her for a loop.
We move out mid week. 

I have started a job in the same field i gave up to take care of WH. Turns out. That was FOUR years ago! Totally shocked to realise it had been so long.

Of course I have to start at the bottom again. But it is a big company and I'm sure I have the skills to climb back up. It might be quite slowly though.

There is a peace in the house. I gave up trying to get him to see what he's done. He's taken that as a truce. One of the mistakes I made, was confronting far too soon. Without the full evidence or the state of mind to be successful.

I do read a lot here. I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about WS, EAs and all that jazz. I will continue to read because perhaps one day I too will have enough insight to be of help to someone.

Perhaps after a bit of time to neutralise some of the bitterness, tho!

The most useful lesson is learning the power of yourself. If you believe yourself to blame or wonder where you could have been better. You're handing them a juicy excuse to fall upon and beat you with.

I am sad. It really is a terrible shame. For me who lost so much. For my child who found a friend and understanding and even, for him. I have a little pity for him. How terrible to not be capable of appreciating the many wonderful. Real things you had but pushed away.

I will of course let you know how we get on.
Thanks again.

Mrs.M


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm sorry it's come to this, Mrs.M. It really is a huge betrayal & tremendously hurtful. So hard to 'bounce back' from. How could you? How could anyone?

I take it your H knows that you are leaving and he is OK with it. What was his reaction?


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Well aD, I don't really think he believes me. He spent all through that night on his computer. I could hear him typing right up until I fell asleep. I didn't bother to check up on what he'd been doing. So...

He isn't a well person. I think. Something was killed in him. Something I can't live without. I wish I were more eloquent. Unfortunately I am not.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No need. We get it.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Got a call today at work. H had been taken ill at the doctors. They were waiting for an ambulance. I should meet them there.

I was torn. Ripped apart actually. We move out tomorrow! I couldn't just leave my very new job! This wasn't going to look good, blah blah blah.
Of course. I did go.

Turns out he hasn't been taking his heart meds. The others. Yes. 
So his blood pressure was through the roof.

I went to see him in the cubicle. He looked terrible as you always do when wired up to monitors.

I'd like to say I felt nothing but I can't. I felt all the emotions. He played it down. Said that he hasn't realised how important the meds were. He knew the psych meds couldn't be missed but...

I know I'm being manipulated. It would have worked too. I was changing my mind about leaving, right up until he said "I love you, Baby".

That's how he ends every letter to the OW. I doubt he knows the significance of what he said, but I'm glad he did.

It was enough to snap me back to reality.

I told him to get his brother to bring in his tablet. I'm sure the girlfriend would love to support him through this new hospital stay. Again.

Then I went back to work. Quickly. Before I could change my mind.

His brothers have called me, and come to the house many times this evening. I haven't answered. I don't need two big apes posturing all over the house. Trying to bully me. Honestly. They're so alpha its a wonder they don't spray everywhere when they enter a room.

Tomorrow, when they bring him home. We will be gone. I'm scared witless really. I doubt even if he got rid of her and suddenly became truthful
.I doubt we could reconcile after I do this. What I've done is one of those non negotiable things. Its like I'm stabbing my marriage through the heart.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Mrsmartian said:


> Trying to bully me. Honestly. They're so alpha its a wonder they don't spray everywhere when they enter a room.


 :rofl:

Thanks for the laugh! Good one!



Mrsmartian said:


> I doubt we could reconcile after I do this. *What I've done* is one of those non negotiable things. Its like I'm stabbing my marriage through the heart.


Say what?!

What YOU have done is worse than what HE has done? MrsM, I hope you're going to therapy. You need someone to slap some sense into you! You are NOT doing this because YOU are a bad person. HE created this mess and HE has to live with the consequences. NEVER feel bad for that.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

turnera. I am going to counselling. Even I can see that was a very weird thing to say.

I guess i'm stressing about leaving when he's ill. Even though it was likely a big ruse to get me to stay. Leaving now goes against everything i've been doing for the past few years.

It's going to take a while for me to break that!

This is why i shall be going very early before the apes wake up. Luckily my daughter is staying at school tonight.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think you know you aren't stabbing your marriage in the heart. You know that your WH has done that. You're just walking away from the carnage. I don't know how much TAM helps, but if it does, just stick with us and we'll try to stay on and give support.

Ending all of his communications with another woman with 'I love you, Baby'? And people are surprised that you are done? Does the alpha gene in his family also correlate with low EQ? What a bunch of throwbacks.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If you're feeling guilty, hire a nurse to take care of him for the next month.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

<<Its like I'm stabbing my marriage through the heart.>>

Of course you did not do that, but, what he did was much worse, inflicting a slow killing wound that caused the life to trickle out of your marriage by dragging it on and on and expecting you to accept his 'secret life' while he told another woman he loved her, for what, years? 

You are strong and I admire you for standing up for yourself.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

PamJ said:


> ..... and expecting you to accept his 'secret life' while he told another woman he loved her, for what, years?


It's amazing that he and his family think this is really OK. You're doing the right thing, Mrs. M. Save yourself and your child.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Separating out the heart meds seems suspiciously calculated....

Unfortunately, heroes can be self-centered AND self-destructive. 

It's possible he might be purposeful in omitting meds again or something similar in a veiled attempt to reel you back in. I hope you will stay strong and know that his antics may indicate he needs to be hospitalized again but not that you need to take care of him. 

Also, John Bradshaw said "We are as sick as our secrets." His secret life was detrimental to his own integrity and, to use military terminology, the collateral damage to you, your daughter and the marriage has been devastating. He's not so out of touch with reality that he gets absolved of responsibility for that.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Bad night in the new place. She hated everything about it. Frankly. I blame him. He betrayed us both. This morning I resent the living daylights out of him.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

I am so sorry, but you are right to resent him, he did this. You could not be expected to go on living the way you were.

I hope your daughter settles in soon. It will get better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Take your daughter to a resale shop this weekend and let her pick out things to decorate the house and her room. Make it an adventure. Make a checklist of things she thinks it needs and go on a treasure hunt.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Resent away! He deserves it. His betrayal is huge.

Your daughter will settle in because she has you. Please take care of yourself.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you all. She is a little better tonight. She drew and then i cut out dragons. We hung them on coat hangers for her room.

She just jumps every time she hears a noise out in the street. She thinks he's coming to take her home. She runs to the door and sits by it until i can persuade her do come away.

Its this. She has to deal with this. Not me. I'm a tatty old been there done that, tough old bird. She's forever this. 

I see a solicitor tomorrow. It would be evil to put her through more of this awful nonsense. 

Thank you all. It is the end. She and I will be ok. Eventually this will become her normal. In time it will become for her, like that time we went to Disneyland. A happy memory but gone now. I should never have lost sight of where my duty lay. 

Mrs M.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Picnics under tables covered with blankets are lovely for memories.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm so sorry. I can see how painful this all is. You and your daughter are lucky to have one another. Your WH was lucky and threw it away. His terrible loss.

Best of luck with the solicitor.


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## Mrsmartian (Aug 21, 2013)

Thanks. A/d. It went as well as you'd expect. I am filing for divorce.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Focusing forward and creating a new, better life for your daughter are the most important things now. You will both be so much better off. Best of luck, and I hope you find some time to fit in a little pampering for yourself - a bubble bath, some soothing music, a new sachet, etc. Your daughter needs you, but to be your best for her, you need to take care of you too.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm sorry. You are strong. I can tell. You deserve a man who isn't so deceitful. Please take care of yourself.


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