# What now?



## mugglemom (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi everyone, been reading here for a while but decided to join so I can talk with others in my situation.

I am 39 and have been married just about 17 years (our anniversary is in about 3 weeks). We have 2 boys 13 and 15. Like so many stories I have read here we started out great, sex was frequent and amazing. Then we started a family, my husband literally turned off just about overnight after I got pregnant, wouldn't touch me in any personal way. You can just imagine how that type of rejection builds up over time, he would flinch from my touch if we were in bed. The situation was so bad and so noticeable that I actually had a couple friends ask if the baby was his (and it was his, I've never even kissed another man since we've been together). I've never really gotten past that too well, he just doesn't understand the damage done. Was a little better with the second pregnancy. Things did get better over time, we managed a pretty decent sex life even with small children, my mother in law kept them about once a month so we could have some time together. However a refusal can get blow out of proportion depending on the day, mood, etc.

The last few years have been bad, I have put on weight but he insists that's not the problem. He's put on some weight as well but it's not a problem for me either, I am still very attracted to him. Sex seems to become less frequent every month. I have a fairly high drive 3-5 times a week is about the minimum for me, I crave the emotional closeness. I've read the "5 Languages of Love" (for those familiar with it) and have a dual language of touch and words of approval. Both are in short supply around here. His is quality time which we meet to my knowledge.

I have talked, argued, cried, whatever it took trying to get the message across that I want more affection and sex. I have tried negotiating for weekends only, Friday to Sunday and holidays he's mine to have, he agreed and started off okay but it's getting less satisfying every time. I've commented that it seems like another chore to complete "ok sex with wife, check that off, on to the next task". I have given up inititating in the hopes he'll take over, nope, wrong, we are down to about once a week.

Neither one of us believes in divorce, that was discussed long before we married. We both have divorced parents and don't want that for our boys. I've also read "The Sex Starved Wife" and tried some ideas from there as well. I could really use some advice or even just some support as I'm sure the wives out there in a similar situation would appreciate how your self esteem suffers.


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## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

It seems like (a) he really just doesn't want sex, or (b) he wants something you don't know about, (c) he wants something you do know about but he thinks you won't do it.

You might schedule a medical exam and discuss this with the doctor; some medicines can interfere with libido, and that might be his situation. Or he may have something else treatable.

As for (b) and (c), the solution would be to try and find out whatever it is, and then do it, unless it's just really unacceptable for you.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

What are the effects of porn and masturbation?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

As the high libido HL spouse married to a low libido LL wife I can tell you this is totally workable IF HE makes the effort. My wife absolutely makes the effort to meet me halfway. Makes for a great - great marriage because all else is so nice as well. 

So - before we tell him to stop with the porn - we should tell him to find some porn he loves - watch it - get crazy - but deny himself the manual over-ride if you get my drift. This will build some heat that he can then direct your way. 

Denying your spouse sex/touch-love is not nice. And the lack of nice words is just so lame. How much effort does that take? I do take my vows seriously but vows don't mean your partner gets to stop making an effort. 





mugglemom said:


> Hi everyone, been reading here for a while but decided to join so I can talk with others in my situation.
> 
> I am 39 and have been married just about 17 years (our anniversary is in about 3 weeks). We have 2 boys 13 and 15. Like so many stories I have read here we started out great, sex was frequent and amazing. Then we started a family, my husband literally turned off just about overnight after I got pregnant, wouldn't touch me in any personal way. You can just imagine how that type of rejection builds up over time, he would flinch from my touch if we were in bed. The situation was so bad and so noticeable that I actually had a couple friends ask if the baby was his (and it was his, I've never even kissed another man since we've been together). I've never really gotten past that too well, he just doesn't understand the damage done. Was a little better with the second pregnancy. Things did get better over time, we managed a pretty decent sex life even with small children, my mother in law kept them about once a month so we could have some time together. However a refusal can get blow out of proportion depending on the day, mood, etc.
> 
> ...


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## mugglemom (Nov 15, 2009)

artieb said:


> It seems like (a) he really just doesn't want sex, or (b) he wants something you don't know about, (c) he wants something you do know about but he thinks you won't do it.
> 
> You might schedule a medical exam and discuss this with the doctor; some medicines can interfere with libido, and that might be his situation. Or he may have something else treatable.
> 
> As for (b) and (c), the solution would be to try and find out whatever it is, and then do it, unless it's just really unacceptable for you.


Well I guess "a" is possible....."b" also possible but he's pretty reserved so I'd be pretty intrigued..."c" I have asked on numerous occasions what his fantasies are and get the standard "I dunno" answer. I'm pretty open to discuss at least if not try most anything once and have gotten more open as I've gotten older.

He doesn't take any medication for anything.


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## mugglemom (Nov 15, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> As the high libido HL spouse married to a low libido LL wife I can tell you this is totally workable IF HE makes the effort. My wife absolutely makes the effort to meet me halfway. Makes for a great - great marriage because all else is so nice as well.
> 
> So - before we tell him to stop with the porn - we should tell him to find some porn he loves - watch it - get crazy - but deny himself the manual over-ride if you get my drift. This will build some heat that he can then direct your way.
> 
> Denying your spouse sex/touch-love is not nice. And the lack of nice words is just so lame. How much effort does that take? I do take my vows seriously but vows don't mean your partner gets to stop making an effort.


I was hoping to hear from you MEM :smthumbup: as I've seen your advice to others on here.

Porn is not likely the issue, can't remember the last time he bought any magazines (I think the issue where China from the WWE was in playboy?) and I bought it for him. Friday night we previously watched Showcase and their light weight porn and we have watched other porn together in the past. So no need to hide it from me. Don't think masturbation is it either but I guess I could be missing something.:scratchhead:

The last few days have been somewhat better since our last chat about the topic. Saturday morning was at least an effort but lacked the emotional connection I am missing so much. Last night was better overall but chances are that's it until the weekend.

It's so bizarre, he's fine with "affection" I get the "honey" and "I love you", the arm around me on the sofa and hugs but he almost resists anything more, well intimate I guess.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Have him tested by the doctors as a first step. Physical fitness attention will help, and I find protein supplementation aids in semen production.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MM,
I am sorry for you - I do know this hurts. Up until early forties we still had friction over sex. It was infrequent, but when it happened it was intense friction. I do think you have to be able to find a way to get him to relax enough to talk about sex. If you could get him to tell you what turns him on and - no offence - what turns him off - life would really improve.

We have developed some rules of engagement at home that have eliminated the occasional melt downs I used to have. 

1. It is not ok to reject your partner. You cannot just say not tonight darling. You commit to some nearby date - could be tomorrow - could be this Friday night or this coming Saturday morning. But it is specific. It is not a: "not tonight but soon." Soon does not comfort the rejected spouse. It feels like a blowoff.

2. It is not ok to act indifferent when you say no. And saying no is a biblical "no no". When you married you went all in - that means your body went into the marriage - it stopped being your body and actually became our body. When your spouse wants you, you either step up or you compassionately request that a deferment for a couple days. Emphasis on compassion. 

My wife does this thing "Babe would it be ok if we connected tomorrow?" in a regretful voice. Or "I am sorry I am just really zonked - is that ok?" 

I find it very hard to get even a little mad when someone treats my needs like they are important. And when they clearly communicate when they will connect with you. But when she says tomorrow - she means it. Or when she says Friday she doesn't forget when Friday comes. The diplomacy only works because it is combined with true commitment. So this routine works for us. 

The other helpful factor is constant touch. We touch/hug/lightly kiss every day. We always sit next to each other gently running hands/arms/legs when we watch tv/movies. So the 5 days a week we don't actually have sex we have a lot of affection. And some nights I give her a massage - that doesn't lead to anything else - while we watch something on tv. And I simply do that because I love to touch her. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As for having some fun - can you get him to have 2 drinks and then play the game below? Two drinks is relaxing but not disruptive. 

Have you ever had him lie down and let you make a map of his pleasure zones? And ideally the map should be both front and back. The "map" is a combination of where he likes to be touched and HOW he likes to be touched there. The how is a combination of pressure, speed and what body part you are using. For instance finger nail, vs finger tip vs palm, squeezing, tapping, stroking. At home we play this game with each other quite a bit. One of us gets to be the mapper and the other gets mapped. The mapper does something and the mappee says a number from 1-10. And the mappee is always welcome to "help" in navigation with suggestions. 

And really for me this game is long on intoxicating pleasure and short on ego gratification as she is so much better at it. And it is not for lack of trying or my inhibitions - I am willing to do anything that she likes.....





mugglemom said:


> I was hoping to hear from you MEM :smthumbup: as I've seen your advice to others on here.
> 
> Porn is not likely the issue, can't remember the last time he bought any magazines (I think the issue where China from the WWE was in playboy?) and I bought it for him. Friday night we previously watched Showcase and their light weight porn and we have watched other porn together in the past. So no need to hide it from me. Don't think masturbation is it either but I guess I could be missing something.:scratchhead:
> 
> ...


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## mugglemom (Nov 15, 2009)

MEM I like your mapping idea. I can suggest it and see, as he just doesn't seem to enjoy touch and it does drive me nuts so a solution would be helpful. I asked him recently why he doesn't and got the "I dunno" cop out answer. I guess it's hard for me to grasp how that could even be possible when I am wired to enjoy touch. 

Sometimes I wish he could listen in on my thoughts, I'm sure he'd be stunned, he hasn't been too amused by the thoughts I have shared about how rejected I feel. I guess that's the craziest part of the whole thing, I know I love him and I am completely sure he does love me (which sometimes I think makes it worse, if I didn't think he loved me the rejections would have a reason) but he just appears to completely miss that fact that I am not happy (to say the least) about the lack of connection during sex. We don't fight about anything else or than those dumb married people tiffs like who didn't pick up milk or whatever, so how on earth does he miss it?


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## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

Why not let him listen in on your thoughts a little? Play Scrabble, with the rule that all words must be used in a sentence (so you can only use words whose meaning you know). Play suggestive words, and use them in suggestive sentences.


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## mugglemom (Nov 15, 2009)

That's an interesting thought artieb, I love Scrabble. 

Communication has slightly improved this week. I'm still getting a lot of "i dunno" if I ask a direct question but he does seem to be hearing me for a switch. I have done a lot of "how do you think you might feel if......" & "have you noticed that I....." and he's actually said that he'd be pretty unhappy to be in my position. 

He has agreed to MEM's mapping suggestion so we'll give that a try on the weekend when we can have a little more time and privacy. Maybe that will lead eventually to him being a little more open to trying anything we haven't done before. I'm not talking anything to intense here, maybe a blindfold, toys, simply playful and fun for a little spice. He's very reserved and has only had one other partner previous to me.


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## mugglemom (Nov 15, 2009)

Latest update....have no idea what I did right, wish I did so I could share it with others. Suddenly it's as if a switch was changed and he's totally into fixing everything. Sex was great, participated in with feeling not like checking a chore off the list. He's cuddly and affectionate all the time. Will have to wait and see if the change is going to stick around.


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