# Hello. My very long story



## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi, I am 36 years old, married to my high school sweetheart for 18 years. We have always been the best of friends and have a great amount of love and respect for each other. Things have been hard. I have a long term autoimmune disease and we have not been able to have children which we very much wanted. I have suffered multiple miscarriages and we have exhausted all of our resources on fertility treatments, leaving us childless and without any other options at this point. We had a dog who we loved as a child for 16 years, but more on that later...
My husband is a workaholic and owns his own business, I do work but have a lot of free time. I've always been prone to boredom and depression and I am incredibly shy. I was spending a lot of time on Facebook and joined a lot of groups and had fun chatting with new people about our common interests.
One of the people I started chatting with really did something to me. We left Facebook to start on Google chat, then Skype and before I knew it I was in the midst of an emotional affair. He was also married and has kids, I wasn't aware of this immediately- he told me he was divorced. He was pretty shady about many things, and I had a bad gut feeling about him, but he also talked to me in ways my husband never really had- he constantly complimented me and called me pet names, he seemed almost obsessed with me in a sexual way. My husband and I have always had a great sex life, but this other man excited me and really made me feel desirable while I was pretty lonely. I just assumed we'd be chat and flirt buddies and that would be it. Then my beloved dog passed away and I lost it. My husband started working even more, saying that being home was too hard, and I was literally on the brink of a major meltdown. Right then the other man asked me to meet him in real life. I don't exactly know what happened, but I agreed to it. I bought a plane ticket and lied to my husband saying that I needed a break with a girlfriend- I even went as far as having my husband drive me to the airport. 
I agreed to meet a stranger for sex, basically. We spent five days together and I am still processing what happened. I wanted intimacy and friendship and an escape from reality...and what I got was being degraded and used by someone I didn't even know. He physically assaulted me and it has seriously messed with my mind. It became clear that he was only in it for sex, he didn't really want a friendship after. I tried to continue our chatting, but he became a totally different person. Went from nightly chats lasting up to four hours to him telling me I was 'selfish and crazy' for trying to stay in contact after. He actually became pretty mean to me so of course this confused me. Then I stumbled upon him on several dating and sex sites, all stating that he was a widower looking for love-when the truth is he is married and living in a different part of the country then he claimed. I've been putting the pieces together and realized that most of our chats were done probably while he was in bed with his wife, which kills me. I cannot accept that someone who told me how much he cared about me and promised to never hurt me could sleep with me, then turn around and almost overnight act like I was nothing. Is this just how things are in the real world? It pretty much broke my heart and I feel such a range of emotions regarding him.

Then there's my husband. He is nearly perfect. He is a workaholic, but I am 100% confident that he adores me and he has proven time and again that his love for me is unconditional. He is my best friend and I told him everything. He was angry for a minute, then immediately hugged me and told me he was sorry that I was in such a bad place.That's it for him- he never brings it up, doesn't want to discuss it. He says I have been a great wife for 18 years so a few months doesn't change his love for me. I am in therapy and we are trying to work things out, but I am stuck. I need help. 
I am hung up on the other man. I can't get over the fact that he used me. It doesn't help that I get an email from him every so often. They are never really nice or anything, usually just a few sentences asking how I'm doing. I respond and usually don't hear back from him, so I have to wonder what his MO is for even writing in the first place. I do feel that he almost hypnotized me, I think I became addicted to the way he made me feel and he certainly had me thinking it was okay to behave in a way I never thought I would. I spend a great deal of time looking at his dating profiles and I'm not even quite sure why. 
I love my husband so much. I am in awe that he would even want to work things out with me. But I feel nothing romantic towards him right now. I feel ashamed that I hurt him. I respect him so much and wonder what's wrong with me that I wake up thinking about the other guy. Shouldn't I be thinking of my husband? I don't love the other man, I realized that I am mourning the loss of someone I thought was a friend and turned out to be a creep, so why can't I get him out of my head? What is this control he has? And how do I fall back in love with my sweet husband? He deserves better. Please don't flame me...I have literally contemplated suicide over this, I don't want to hurt my husband any more. I don't want to think about the other guy at all again. I am lost and I don't know what to do. For those who have betrayed their spouses- is it normal to feel like this? Is it something we can overcome? I just feel dirty and embarrassed and unworthy of the amazing man I married. Will it always feel like this? And can I ever get over knowing how I jeopardized an 18 year marriage for someone who didn't even really like me and used me in a very intimate and horrible way? Do you think telling his wife would give me any closure or would it just add to my problems?
Thanks for reading if you made it this far!
And thanks in advance for any advice or support you can lend me.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Welcome.Since you already told your husband and if you really want to salvage your marriage,one of the first things you need to do is go completely NC with OM.You also need counseling,not only to find out the reason why you cheated but to understand why its acceptable for you to be assaulted and degraded by this OM and still wanting to go back for more.Your husband is also going to have to deal with this in a more open and extensive way.He's basically rug sweeping and maybe because he has his own issues.Hope you get the help you need.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

How would you feel if your husband did to you what you did to him? You and your husband need to get tested for STD's. Do your husband a big favor and divorce him so he can fine someone else who will truly love and appreciate him instead of degrading and humiliating him and your marriage like you have done. He deserve better and you deserve less.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

delete your email first. Why are you still in contact with the other guy? You are naive as you can get. 

he physically assaulted you?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

TBT said:


> Welcome.Since you already told your husband and if you really want to salvage your marriage,one of the first things you need to do is go completely NC with OM.You also need counseling,not only to find out the reason why you cheated but to understand why its acceptable for you to be assaulted and degraded by this OM and still wanting to go back for more.Your husband is also going to have to deal with this in a more open and extensive way.He's basically rug sweeping and maybe because he has his own issues.Hope you get the help you need.


Thank you for your advice. I am in therapy twice a week- trying to figure out why I did what I did. And the last contact I had with the other man was me telling him not to contact me again. I have asked my husband many times to go to counseling but he will not. So all I can do is work on myself and hope he comes around eventually. We are quite a mess right now...I do appreciate your words.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

bryanp said:


> How would you feel if your husband did to you what you did to him? You and your husband need to get tested for STD's. Do your husband a big favor and divorce him so he can fine someone else who will truly love and appreciate him instead of degrading and humiliating him and your marriage like you have done. He deserve better and you deserve less.


I would be devastated. We both were tested for STD's. I have an 18 year marriage that I do not want to give up on. I have been a faithful loving wife for all 18 years and had four months where I literally feel I had an emotional breakdown. I want to make it work. My husband wants to make it work. I just need a bit of help.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

i might have missed it, but did you tell your husband of your misdeed? that's the first thing you need to do.

if you have.....kudos for you. now you can begin the process of healing yourself, and maybe rebuild your marriage.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> delete your email first. Why are you still in contact with the other guy? You are naive as you can get.
> 
> he physically assaulted you?


I didn't delete because I realized he wasn't interested in any future, so it didn't seem necessary. I was struggling in the beginning with wanting to know why but I am not interested in any future contact with him now and have told him so. I think the contact has ended, still I can't get him out of my mind. Not in a tender way- more of a 'what on earth was wrong with me' way. I accept responsibility for my behaviour but I also absolutely believe this man preyed on me and sought me out as someone to try to destroy. And yes, he physically assaulted me. HE used me for what I can only assume was some sick fantasy that he'd never act out with his wife. I literally went home bloodied and bruised. 
Like I said, this is NOT my normal behavior, I almost didn't recognize myself at the time. I am trying to move on, but don't know if we are too broken.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> i might have missed it, but did you tell your husband of your misdeed? that's the first thing you need to do.
> 
> if you have.....kudos for you. now you can begin the process of healing yourself, and maybe rebuild your marriage.


Yes- this was the first thing I did. Thank you for your response. I am trying to gain as much knowledge and perspective as possible. I want to make this work.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I didn't delete because I realized he wasn't interested in any future, so it didn't seem necessary. I was struggling in the beginning with wanting to know why but I am not interested in any future contact with him now and have told him so. I think the contact has ended, still I can't get him out of my mind. Not in a tender way- more of a 'what on earth was wrong with me' way. I accept responsibility for my behaviour but I also absolutely believe this man preyed on me and sought me out as someone to try to destroy. And yes, he physically assaulted me. HE used me for what I can only assume was some sick fantasy that he'd never act out with his wife. I literally went home bloodied and bruised.
> Like I said, this is NOT my normal behavior, I almost didn't recognize myself at the time. I am trying to move on, but don't know if we are too broken.


What do you mean by fantasy ?? He f*cking raped you. Did he hit you too? How did you stay with him for 5 days? Have a police report filed on him. You will not get a conviction but there will be a report on him. You can save more women from him.

Does his wife know about it? Tell her immediately.

edit: you are in counselling right? Rape can be traumatic


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What do you mean by fantasy ?? He f*cking raped you. Did he hit you too? How did you stay with him for 5 days? Have a police report filed on him. You will not get a conviction but there will be a report on him. You can save more women from him.
> 
> Does his wife know about it? Tell her immediately.


Okay, this is part of what I needed to know. I have felt like he violated me for sure, but I never told him 'no' so I took responsibility for that. It was quite brutal, and not enjoyable in any sense for me. Which is the reason I need to figure out WHY I did this. And why I stayed with him for five days and allowed it to continue. He was not violent while we were not having sex, but I have had a very hard time getting the sexual stuff out of my mind, it haunts me. 
His wife does not know and I have flip flopped with the idea of telling her (I don't know her). One one hand, I don't want to hurt her and wonder if I just need to fix myself, but on the other hand I don't want anyone else to be hurt and he needs to stop doing what he's doing. I am a bit afraid of him, he has shown himself to be angry and he is somewhat in the public eye, at least in his community. I don't know that anyone would believe me.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

And yes- in counseling twice a week. This is all very fresh so I am at the beginning but I do know I need help. And I want desperately to make it work with my husband but there is such a wedge between us right now and he does not want to speak of any of it again.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Maybe he is in shock.


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

Good Luck. I am sorry you are in the place...not here on TAM but the place of "why" you are acting like this. If you are in counselling then GREAT. I bet he is in shock. I did the same with my H. Rug Sweeping. Read the newbie thread if you haven't already. It will help you to understand BOTH of your places right now. 

I'm glad you sound remorseful. Your H needs to face this. Can you convince him? I rug swept and one year later it's now coming out. THAT is confusing and hurtful to my H and it would have been better for us to tackle the issues straight on.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Ingalls said:


> Good Luck. I am sorry you are in the place...not here on TAM but the place of "why" you are acting like this. If you are in counselling then GREAT. I bet he is in shock. I did the same with my H. Rug Sweeping. Read the newbie thread if you haven't already. It will help you to understand BOTH of your places right now.
> 
> I'm glad you sound remorseful. Your H needs to face this. Can you convince him? I rug swept and one year later it's now coming out. THAT is confusing and hurtful to my H and it would have been better for us to tackle the issues straight on.


I am very remorseful. I have done something that I did not think I was capable of and hurt the best person I know. I am in individual counseling and want to do marriage counseling but according to my husband, he's forgiven me and just wants to bury it and move on. He knows this is not my character. Still I worry that it will come back down the road...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Tinker,

I don't know why you are so hung up on this man but I have an idea. Have you ever heard of the book (trilogy actually) Fifty Shades of Grey? I've not read it but from what I understand it is extremely popular right now with many women. Basically it is about a young naive woman who gets involved with a man in a BDSM relationship. It involves domination, sadism and bondage. This type of relationship is something many women fantasize about but will not admit to. Is it possible that this type of relationship appeals to your hidden darker side? Maybe that is why you can't get this man out of your mind. Maybe you are infatuated with this man because he doesn't need or want you for anything other than to use you for sex? I would explore this in counseling.

As for your husband, he reminds me a lot of myself on D-Day. I repressed my feelings and a few months later I exploded. I think your husband should consider counseling as well so that he can deal with his feelings.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The guy is a pro at hunting down female victims. You should definitely contact his wife. You may be able to find her through him on spokeo.com. If not, forget it and block him. You are still possesd by him and it sounds like you may be fooling yourself.

There are websites that actually teach these perverts how to pick up married women. You have just been scammed. The worst part is you know nothing about him thats real, just what you learned on your "vacation" with him.

The reason he contacts you occasionally is that he might want another go around and thats why you keep letting him contact you. 

This is what these kind of guys think (from another thread).

" My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.
findingmyway is offline Forward Message "


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Thank you both for your perspective. First, I do know how to contact his wife, I have seen her on Facebook and she has a public blog. Do you think I should? Second, this man is a physician and upstanding member of his community. I dont know that I'd be believed. I am a teacher and my husband is a lawyer- we also have a reputation to protect. As far as exploring my darker side, I originally thought maybe but this all went well beyond my comfort zone. It was terrifying and I didn't get any pleasure out of it. Which adds to my confusion with being hung up on him. He was mean to me and I knew neither of us wanted a future. Still I guess I just wanted to think we were friends and I didn't risk my marriage and my life over a man who didn't even like me. That's too much to bear. But I know he used me, my husband is beside himself that this man violated me and just wants to move on. I'm still processing how I let myself get into this position, how I offered myself to be used and abused and think it was okay. Oh, and I'd only ever slept with my Husband before this, so part of me wondered if this is normal even though I know it's not. It's not a good feeling to know you've been scammed, I clearly have a lot to sort through. I do appreciate your advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

When he needs it, come here for advice about what you need to do for your husband. While it may not show yet, he has been dealt a wound that will scar but never heal.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You may want to consider writing your husband a letter briefly explaining why you would think that contacting the OM's wife to make her aware of the affair between you and her husband, may be beneficial for the two of you in getting some sense of justice but that you will leave it up to him to decide whether or not to proceed with exposure of her husband's cheating. The point in this is that your husband sees that you are totally transparent and will not fall into the old habits of doing things behind his back.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Have you told you husband the details if the physical abuse?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Lady you are a piece of work. Well, your husband is in denial, and if he does not figure out some way to vent his anger and hurt either one or both of two things will happen: his health will decline and you will lose him in less than five years; or he will erupt like Mt. Vesuvius and the force of his anger and hatred will hit you like atidal wave. 

You sold your soul to the OM and castrated your husband in the process. My take is that,nicey nicey as you like to think of yourself, you are at heart immoral with very weak personal boundaries. IC is good, but you need to be on your knees praying to whatever god you serve to change you. 

If your husband kicked you to the curb tonight, you would find that passion again for him pretty quick. The reason you don't 
feel passion and love for him is because he let you off easy. Whereas the OM rapes and beats the piss out of you and you are passionate for him. See the correlation?

Sick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

My husband is aware of the physical abuse but not the extent of it. When I came back home I had bruises around my neck and immediately burst into tears upon looking at my husband. I am very transparent with him, he is my best friend and I don't keep things from him. This is so out of my character that he knows I was not thinking straight and I think that's why he's been so sympathetic. So, you are suggesting I contact the wife with my husbands blessing? I asked him about it and he was against it, but again he is burying all of this. My gut tells me that I should tell her and that may help to bring closure to all of this. Plus I would want to know. But I also don't want to think of any possible retaliation. This is such a roller coaster and I am not taking it lightly- thanks for every bit of advice you've all given.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Lady you are a piece of work. Well, your husband is in denial, and if he does not figure out some way to vent his anger and hurt either one or both of two things will happen: his health will decline and you will lose him in less than five years; or he will erupt like Mt. Vesuvius and the force of his anger and hatred will hit you like atidal wave.
> 
> You sold your soul to the OM and castrated your husband in the process. My take is that,nicey nicey as you like to think of yourself, you are at heart immoral with very weak personal boundaries. IC is good, but you need to be on your knees praying to whatever god you serve to change you.
> 
> ...


Okay- you don't know me and you don't know my husband. You have no idea what we have endured personally and as a couple, especially in the last two years. 
I am full of shame and remorse for what I have done and willing to do everything I can to make my marriage work. We made vows to stay with each other in sickness and in health and for better or worse, I have fully committed myself to this man for 18 years. I made a monumental mistake...I accept that and am trying to work it out. I'm not passionate at all for the OM, I am struggling to understand why I'm not able to move past him or forgive myself. I was just hoping to find someone to give me some advice on how to forgive and start falling in love with my spouse again. I am grateful to those who have given me advice without judgment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You can tell her that he told you that he was a widower. Do you have the chats from that time. And the profiles where he listed as widower. Screenshot them as proof.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm shocked you husband hasn't divorced you and trashed you publicly for what you dd and for the fact you are still hung up on a sloe ball cheater who led to you over and over, assaulted you fir five days while you stayed a took it. Wow. That's way beyond bad judgement. And you did this willingly and has him drive you to the airport to go meet your lover?

How humiliating for your husband. And you call him your best friend? I'd hate to see how his enemies treat him. Wow.

Your husband may have forgiven you, but does he have any love or any respect left for you? I can't see how he could, unless he is a completelly passive person, anyone else would feel like their soul had been sliced in two. 

He maybe has decided you would be too expensive to divorce, so he is going to keep married to you, but find himself someone worthy of his affection?

If he is rug sweeping then he is setting himself up for years of torment as he can't ever trust you won't do this or worse to him again with either this guy or the next guy who texts you. 

Please if you have compassion for your husband get HIM into therapy that will help him actually face this and to help him get angry at you like you deserve. He needs to get it out, or it will fester in him for years until it tears him apart.

I don't think either of you really understand the deep wound to his soul you have inflicted. You are entirely focused on you in the same selfish way that let you cheat in the first place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> Okay- you don't know me and you don't know my husband. You have no idea what we have endured personally and as a couple, especially in the last two years.
> I am full of shame and remorse for what I have done and willing to do everything I can to make my marriage work. We made vows to stay with each other in sickness and in health and for better or worse, I have fully committed myself to this man for 18 years. I made a monumental mistake...I accept that and am trying to work it out. I'm not passionate at all for the OM, I am struggling to understand why I'm not able to move past him or forgive myself. I was just hoping to find someone to give me some advice on how to forgive and start falling in love with my spouse again. I am grateful to those who have given me advice without judgment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think bandit nailed it. If your husband got angry at you and kicked you out, you'd find passion for him really quickly. But because you don't have to work at keeping him, you don't put any effort into him.

I wonder if your husband is in deep deep emotional shock and is so hurt by your actions that he has lost any all trust in you. 

It almost sounds like he is indifferent to you now, which is the opposite of love. Your betrayal and humiliation of him may have pushed him do far that he has simply shutoff any feeling for you. Your just a person whom he has compete indifference for.

You say you care about him, well then get him some therapy because it may just save his life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

I feel bad for your husband. 

Convince him to get professional help immediately.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I DO understand the pain I have put him through. Years ago it was HE who was unfaithful to me and I felt it deeply. We went through marriage counseling and it was rough for a long time but we worked through it. He does love and respect me because I have given him my whole heart and soul for eighteen years. Neither of us want to give up on that. And he knows my heart, he knows I was not in a good state of mind when I did what I did. I have taken full responsibility and feel extreme guilt and he knows all of this. I'm not a liar or a Jezebel, I made a terrible mistake and hurt a good man, and I accept that and am doing what I can to make it right. Thanks for all who have given me advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> I'm not passionate at all for the OM, I am struggling to understand why I'm not able to move past him or forgive myself.


You're focusing on the wrong point. You made a big mistake but your husband is suffering the consequence's. It's your husband that matter's, not OM nor you.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

And he is not indifferent to me, btw. He has been very affectionate and attentive since this happened. I love him
More than anything and he feels the same. I am seriously looking to rectify this, and need any help I can get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

tinker please try to understand that most of us here have been betrayed by their spouses, just like your husband was betrayed by you, so while the comments you receive may be quite harsh they nevertheless often contain insightful information on how your husband is processing this emotional upheaval brought on by your affair. We may not know him like you do but all of us betrayed spouses share many common things that we go through no matter what our gender, age or socio-economic status is. I would highly recommend that you continue reading as much of you can from this site for there are many people who have a wealth of information that can prove useful to your and your husbands recovery.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I can't believe you are still in contact with the POSOM. You are continuing on with the OM still! Does your husband know you are still with the OM? I wonder if he asked or told you to fly out fir his pleasure again if you would go? I think the OM will try to get you to do it again, and I half think you would go.

You say you have remorse but how exactly are you showing it by pursuing the OM still?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> He has been very affectionate and attentive since this happened.


That's the problem. He bottled it up for now but it in the future whether it be few days or years he'll blow up out of proportion because of this.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Problem is we are not psychiatrists or therapists. We're just folks who have been cheated on and we are calling you out on the typical b.s. We hear so often. 

What I don't buy is this idea you are trying to sell that you did not enjoy your five days with this man. Did he hold you hostage or between the violent sex did you guys go out to drink, eat, go to a show, hit the clubs? I mean, you make it sound like he had you chained to the bed. If he beat the crap out of you why didn't you leave after the first day? Your story about not enjoying it just doesn't hold water. Fill in the blanks for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

There is also triggers that he will find hitting him. Little things, like you going to visit a girl friend against, or bring driven to the airport by him. He will find himself getting angry and feeling lost and hopeless. The fact that you are still obsessing over the OM and still chatting with hum must hurt your husband deeply. You claim remorse, but remorse would mean you would hate the OM and what he helped you do to you husband. So while you may feel guilt, I don't think you yet feel remorse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

morituri said:


> tinker please try to understand that most of us here have been betrayed by their spouses, just like your husband was betrayed by you, so while the comments you receive may be quite harsh they nevertheless often contain insightful information on how your husband is processing this emotional upheaval brought on by your affair. We may not know him like you do but all of us betrayed spouses share many common things that we go through no matter what our gender, age or socio-economic status is. I would highly recommend that you continue reading as much of you can from this site for there are many people who have a wealth of information that can prove useful to your and your husbands recovery.


I understand this, and like I said in a previous post, I have been on the other side of this. I know I betrayed him and it will be a long time to recover from, if ever. He was angry for a very brief time, but he knows my heart and knows that I had something of an emotional breakdown when this happened. He loves me unconditionally and said I am worth forgiving. This is exactly how I felt when he had an indiscretion years ago. This is terrible but does not define us or our love. 
And I'm not in contact with the OM, I was for a bit but I'm not now. I'm jut struggling with letting go of it because the bottom line is, he abused me and manipulated my mind. This is not an excuse, this is he reality of what happened. I am living proof that someone can get into your mind if you let them and cause you to do things you'd have never thought were possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Problem is we are not psychiatrists or therapists. We're just folks who have been cheated on and we are calling you out on the typical b.s. We hear so often.
> 
> What I don't buy is this idea you are trying to sell that you did not enjoy your five days with this man. Did he hold you hostage or between the violent sex did you guys go out to drink, eat, go to a show, hit the clubs? I mean, you make it sound like he had you chained to the bed. If he beat the crap out of you why didn't you leave after the first day? Your story about not enjoying it just doesn't hold water. Fill in the blanks for us.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay, the blanks- I was contemplating suicide when I met this man. I honestly felt that my husband and everyone else would be better off without me. So I decided that I cared about NOTHING and agreed to meet him. No, we didn't have dinner, didn't go to shows, didn't do anything fun. He did mistreat me and made me stay in the room like a ***** while he went to work things. I was scared and uncomfortable but also very confused so I stayed. This is very messed up, but is the truth. This was the final straw in months of self destruction for me. And I am not chatting with the OM now. I'm trying to make sense of what happened now that the fog has lifted and I am seeing what I've done. I really am trying to gain as much perspective as I can, I really want to make my marriage work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok then, document what the OM did with you. Print out emails and anything else you have, document the dates and hotel and any physical characteristics about him, get contact info for his wife and send it all to her registered mail. Have your husband include a note in it too.

The OM is a predator , so you should pay him back. 

Post him on cheaterville.com to warn off other victims then too.

Maybe then you'll find some personal closure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I think you feel guilty of what you have done but not remorseful. If you want to R your marriage you should be remorseful and show it to your husband by exposing OM to his wife along with your husband (by this you are saving other married women from this POS), send him a NC letter in the presence of your husband.

Your husband definitely need some therapy to deal with his emotions. he is bottling up his emotions, one day its going to become resentment to you and explode on an unexpected time. So deal with his emotions first, dont feel that everything is fine at home and your husband forgiven you for screwing around.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Tinker,

Sorry if this is going to upset you. Advance apologies.

How can you forgive yourself because you are the cause of the problem?

It is good that you have felt bad for what you did, and you are feeling remorseful. However, if you were truly remorseful you would have gone no contact with the OM immediately after the abuse. You did not.

So, it seems that you still have feeling for OM for the nice words and attention he has shown on you.

Your husband cheated in the past and you both did. He might be thinking that he is under lesser moral grounds to get angry with you.....

I dont understand why your husband is not showing any anger. It is normally expected of a BS. 

First, go no contact with OM.
Second, you have not removed him from your mind. This is still not good for a healthy relationship.
Both of you need counseling.

AU


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Ok then, document what the OM did with you. Print out emails and anything else you have, document the dates and hotel and any physical characteristics about him, get contact info for his wife and send it all to her registered mail. Have your husband include a note in it too.
> 
> The OM is a predator , so you should pay him back.
> 
> ...


I have a lot of info on him but am a little afraid of him still. I didnt know if telling his wife was the right thing to do or is adding fuel to a fire that just needs to be put out. I know I made a mistake and had terrible judgement, but also this man preyed on me and violated me and had some kind of mind control over me. This is why I'm obsessing- not because I have feelings for him, not because I want him again, but because he has twisted my thoughts and made me feel crazy and that I deserved to be mistreated in a horrible way. This is hard to digest and hard to move on. My husband says I need to forgive myself and allow us to survive as a couple. I don't know how to do this when thoughts of the OM still haunt me. Hence, the therapy. Hopefully I will get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

What's there to rectify? your husband cheated you forgave him, you cheated, he forgave you.

Regarding the sex pest, like others have said, you need to tell his wife, the other sites you saw him in with evidence to back up your claims. Best contact the admins so they could track his IP number and warn sister sites.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> Tinker,
> 
> Sorry if this is going to upset you. Advance apologies.
> 
> ...


You are correct that in the immediate time following meeting I was still wanting contact with the OM. I am NC now, and seeing things clearly each day. I struggled with how I could betray my spouse with such a bad man. But he did get into my mind and manipulated my emotions, I am in intense therapy and my counselor said this man used classic brainwashing techniques on me alon with NLP and had a great deal of power over me. I accept responsibility for my part, but I was somewhat victimized as well and my husband is very aware of this. I don't know what else to say. I thank you all for your advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Complexity said:


> What's there to rectify? your husband cheated you forgave him, you cheated, he forgave you.
> 
> Regarding the sex pest, like others have said, you need to tell his wife, the other sites you saw him in with evidence to back up your claims. Best contact the admins so they could track his IP number and warn sister sites.


I originally hoped to get some advice on how to get back to an 'in love' place with my husband. I adore him but things now
Are not of a sexual nature and I feel disconnected from him on that front. I hoped to get wisdom from someone who had been there and gotten through it. He has forgiven me but I have not forgiven 
Myself and dont have as much closure as I'd like. I'd like to wake up one day not having dreamed about the OM, which just proves that he's still in my head. I dont want him there. I'm hoping outing him will help get closure, or will at the very least stop him for a
While.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I originally hoped to get some advice on how to get back to an 'in love' place with my husband. I adore him but things now
> Are not of a sexual nature and I feel disconnected from him on that front. I hoped to get wisdom from someone who had been there and gotten through it. He has forgiven me but I have not forgiven
> Myself and dont have as much closure as I'd like. I'd like to wake up one day not having dreamed about the OM, which just proves that he's still in my head. I dont want him there. I'm hoping outing him will help get closure, or will at the very least stop him for a
> While.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok serious question, do you think you're in love with the OM but afraid to admit it? 

I ask because after he sexually assaulted you, you maintained contact with him and were constantly pondering about his life and what he's up to.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

If he used NLP on you, how do you know that he didn't plant a post-hypnotic suggestion in your mind that will make you come back to him in the future and do those nasty deeds that were so out of character for you?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Ok serious question, do you think you're in love with the OM but afraid to admit it?
> 
> I ask because after he sexually assaulted you, you maintained contact with him and were constantly pondering about his life and what he's up to.


No. I definitely had feelings for him but I wasn't in love. I was trying to make sense of it all, and to be honest, I have a long history of abuse. I thought I had made peace with my childhood, etc. but when faced with a few crises I offered myself out to someone who hurt me. He promised he wouldn't but I knew in my gut he would. This is my old behavior and I was trying to understand how I let it get to this point. I think I had every emotion possible when it came to him, but I wasn't in love. I was and am still a little in a
State of self loathing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> You are correct that in the immediate time following meeting I was still wanting contact with the OM. I am NC now, and seeing things clearly each day. I struggled with how I could betray my spouse with such a bad man. But he did get into my mind and manipulated my emotions, I am in intense therapy and my counselor said this man used classic brainwashing techniques on me alon with NLP and had a great deal of power over me. I accept responsibility for my part, but I was somewhat victimized as well and my husband is very aware of this. I don't know what else to say. I thank you all for your advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NLP -Is that neuro-linguistic processing? If so,I'd be wondering about the counseling you're getting because from my understanding NLP has been largely discredited.And I think it was intended as a positive intervention.Maybe I'm wrong.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> If he used NLP on you, how do you know that he didn't plant a post-hypnotic suggestion in your mind that will make you come back to him in the future and do those nasty deeds that were so out of character for you?


Huh, I guess I don't. I dont know a lot about this, my therapist briefly touched on it at the end of my last session. We will be discussing it further on Wednesday, but it didn't occur to me that he could have. I didn't even know these types of things existed two months ago. All of this adds to my self hatred right now over how majorly I've wrecked things and how stupid I've been.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I have a lot of info on him but am a little afraid of him still. I didnt know if telling his wife was the right thing to do or is adding fuel to a fire that just needs to be put out. I know I made a mistake and had terrible judgement, but also this man preyed on me and violated me and had some kind of mind control over me. This is why I'm obsessing- not because I have feelings for him, not because I want him again, but because he has twisted my thoughts and made me feel crazy and that I deserved to be mistreated in a horrible way. This is hard to digest and hard to move on. My husband says I need to forgive myself and allow us to survive as a couple. I don't know how to do this when thoughts of the OM still haunt me. Hence, the therapy. Hopefully I will get there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Why are you still scared of him? Why does he still have control over you? You need to face these demons. Outing him will give you sense of control of the whole situation if not the closure you wanted


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I understand.

You have lost the love for your husband and want to re-connect with your husband.

Is your husband now disconnected?

To enable yourself to reestablish the love (old flame is by the way gone), you need to get OM completely off your mind. Four months of A is not easy to go. You need to work on this. When the thoughts about OM come, think about the abuses he did. Is it not automatic to you? Here is my worry. Are you not feeling bad for hurt that has happened in the marraige with OM in the mind?

So, you should will and work on the issue. Get some serious counseling.

I believe your husband is gonig to react in some way in future.

Take care.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Your husband is ticking time bomb. If you let him go and the anger festers he's going to blow up one day or end up on the slab. The best way to prove your contrition and prove to him that you still love him is to put your foot down and insist he go to therapy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

TBT said:


> NLP -Is that neuro-linguistic processing? If so,I'd be wondering about the counseling you're getting because from my understanding NLP has been largely discredited.And I think it was intended as a positive intervention.Maybe I'm wrong.



Actually, NLP has only been discredited by psychologists and psychiatrists in the same way that MDs look down on Chiropractors.

Anthony Robbins uses NLP and has been successful doing so. NLP is very effective in making immediate behavioral changes, whereas the traditional counseling model espouses countless sessions before changes can be made. 

I won't get into a debate about which approach is better (although NLP is a lot cheaper) but do some research before making such a blanket statement.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> I am hung up on the other man. I can't get over the fact that he used me. It doesn't help that I get an email from him every so often. They are never really nice or anything, usually just a few sentences asking how I'm doing. I respond and usually don't hear back from him, so I have to wonder what his MO is for even writing in the first place


You shouldn't have responded to his emails at all after what he did to you.
The fact that you still think about him means you love the idea of him, you like the idea of a man that you created in your head but you don't see him for what he is. 
You miss his sweet words back in the day.
Just forget him and his wife. It's not your business anymore to let his wife know about what happened. Let him do whatever the hell he wants to do with his marriage. 
You go on with you own life and think about you well-being and reconnecting again to your husband.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I can't believe you are still in contact with the POSOM. You are continuing on with the OM still! Does your husband know you are still with the OM? I wonder if he asked or told you to fly out fir his pleasure again if you would go? I think the OM will try to get you to do it again, and I half think you would go.


What Shaggy says. I feel the only reason you came clean to your H is because the bruises were impossible to conceal.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

This thread is definitely one for the Bizarre Hall of Fame. 

A see a lot of self-hatred in her, and if she does not get past this she will act out again with another pervert in the future. 

She's damn lucky this guy didn't kill her and stuff her body under the hotel bed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Bandit, you are exactly right. For the life of me, I do not understand how women could agree to fly half-way across the United States to meet some stranger from the internet who pays them a few compliments. You are lucky you were not killed. There was a story in the news recently about a girl who flew to meet her acquaintance and disappeared. You are damn lucky that did not happen to you. Another thing I do not understand is how the betrayer in these situations repeat in every post that "I love my husband/wife." How is that even possible? I cannot imagine how you could claim to love someone and then betray them on such an unbelievable level. I shutter to think what you would do to people you do not love.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> I understand.
> 
> You have lost the love for your husband and want to re-connect with your husband.
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is exactly how I am feeling, I am disconnected from my husband and am desperately trying to get back to where we were. We've had a lot of issues the past two years, the last being a late term miscarriage and the loss of our dog which completely shut him down. So we were in a bad place before this happened. We dealt with it differently and I put myself in harms way. Obviously I realize this. I'm sure most of you will think I'm making excuses or I am crazy, but I was in a strange fog the past few months, I behaved in ways that are completely against my values and I made many mistakes. I was almost detached, it was like I was watching myself on a movie or something, like I wasn't even in my own body. This makes me sound crazy, but as soon as the fog started to lift, I wondered what on earth I'd been doing. My husband said he thought he had lost me for a few months. But I am lucid now and just want to make this work. I am not interested in contact with the OM at all now, but I do still think about him way too much which is why I came here hoping someone could help me to get past this and get him out of my mind. I guess I don't really think o him as an abuser, I have only internalized this and blamed myself, but I guess I should shift my thoughts to how terrible he was to me. And to whomever asked why I'm afraid of him- I dont exactly know the answer. Maybe because this man clearly had a strange hold on me and I became a different person with him? Or because he is incredibly angry and knows way too much about me? Or because I looked into his eyes and saw something almost unhuman? I am not sure but I am working on figuring it out. This has been so difficult for us, thank you to those who have given advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> You are correct that in the immediate time following meeting I was still wanting contact with the OM. I am NC now, and seeing things clearly each day. I struggled with how I could betray my spouse with such a bad man. But he did get into my mind and manipulated my emotions, I am in intense therapy and my counselor said this man used classic brainwashing techniques on me alon with NLP and had a great deal of power over me. I accept responsibility for my part, but I was somewhat victimized as well and my husband is very aware of this. I don't know what else to say. I thank you all for your advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No you weren't victimized - you are an adult who makes your own choices. You chose to be with him. You chose to cheat. You need to own that fact and deal with it. 

Looking for hocus-pocus tricks that he used to take you over is fantasy and an attempt by you to shift the responsibility from you. It's also a path that will never let you move on because instead of dealing with the truth and deciding to improve your self and not make those same choices in the future - you are setting yourself up with a nice premade excuse that you had no choice when you do it again.

That's pure self indigent lies. 

Own it - you made the choice to be with him. You made the choice to stay those 5 days. You made the choice to try to continue the relationship with him afterward. You are continuing to choose to focus on the OM and on you - instead of focusing on saving your husband and making a new marriage.

You are a rational, mature, responsible adult who controls her own actions and makes her own choices. You are not the puppet of any other person.

The choice is yours to make: Do you continue to focus on the OM and you - OR - do you focus on healing your husband and trying to make a marriage again?

The lack of sex with your husband is telling. If he wants it, but you are rejecting him - that is you making a choice. It could be because you feel it is betraying your OM? It could be that you feel you are still possessed by the OM??

But it's actually your choice.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Lady you are a piece of work. Well, your husband is in denial, and if he does not figure out some way to vent his anger and hurt either one or both of two things will happen: his health will decline and you will lose him in less than five years; or he will erupt like Mt. Vesuvius and the force of his anger and hatred will hit you like atidal wave.


The second thing is exactly what happened to me. Not one of my better moments.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> My husband is aware of the physical abuse but not the extent of it.
> 
> I am very transparent with him, he is my best friend and I don't keep things from him.


Do you see the disparity in your statements?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Do you see the disparity in your statements?


Of course. I tried to tell him every detail, he was NOT willing to listen. I have begged him to go to counseling or to at least discuss it and he is adamant that we drop it and move forward. This is not for a lack of trying on my part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW - I think you are avoiding dealing with exposing the OM because that would mean accepting stepping up an dealing with it and the choices you made.

While you can hide behind fear that he is powerful and controlling and took you over - you can cling to your not being responsible. You can continue to pursue that he dominated and forced you to be that person.

By taking action and outting him - you pull away that illusion and say that he was just another cheating piece of garbage that you had an affair with. You make him just a man. And it dumps a ton of responsibility back on you.

Hence you protect him - because doing so helps you avoid destroying the illusion you've hid behind.

If you truly are done with this then:

1. Delete ALL email accounts the OM knows about today.
2. Change you phone number.
3. Take all the info you have about the affair, collect it and put in an envelope.
4. Give the envelope to your husband to make a copy of.
5. Have your husband send the envelop to the OMW.
6. Post the OM on cheaterville - to warn other women.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

TBT said:


> NLP -Is that neuro-linguistic processing? If so,I'd be wondering about the counseling you're getting because from my understanding NLP has been largely discredited.And I think it was intended as a positive intervention.Maybe I'm wrong.


You are not wrong. NLP has been discredited and if her counselor is suggesting it was used on her then he/she should be discredited also.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> BTW - I think you are avoiding dealing with exposing the OM because that would mean accepting stepping up an dealing with it and the choices you made.
> 
> While you can hide behind fear that he is powerful and controlling and took you over - you can cling to your not being responsible. You can continue to pursue that he dominated and forced you to be that person.
> 
> ...


Damned great advice. Needs to be said again!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

how long ago was the violence?

I think you need to go to the police

do you want him to do that to another woman again and it's likely he's already doing that to his wife.


You also need IC big time. Suicidal thoughts are extremely dangerous (plus add the trauma from the violence) and you need help, both medicine and therapy.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> Hi, I am 36 years old, married to my high school sweetheart for 18 years. We have always been the best of friends and have a great amount of love and respect for each other. Things have been hard. I have a long term autoimmune disease and we have not been able to have children which we very much wanted. I have suffered multiple miscarriages and we have exhausted all of our resources on fertility treatments, leaving us childless and without any other options at this point. We had a dog who we loved as a child for 16 years, but more on that later...
> My husband is a workaholic and owns his own business, I do work but have a lot of free time. I've always been prone to boredom and depression and I am incredibly shy. I was spending a lot of time on Facebook and joined a lot of groups and had fun chatting with new people about our common interests.
> One of the people I started chatting with really did something to me. We left Facebook to start on Google chat, then Skype and before I knew it I was in the midst of an emotional affair. He was also married and has kids, I wasn't aware of this immediately- he told me he was divorced. He was pretty shady about many things, and I had a bad gut feeling about him, but he also talked to me in ways my husband never really had- he constantly complimented me and called me pet names, he seemed almost obsessed with me in a sexual way. My husband and I have always had a great sex life, but this other man excited me and really made me feel desirable while I was pretty lonely. I just assumed we'd be chat and flirt buddies and that would be it. Then my beloved dog passed away and I lost it. My husband started working even more, saying that being home was too hard, and I was literally on the brink of a major meltdown. Right then the other man asked me to meet him in real life. I don't exactly know what happened, but I agreed to it. I bought a plane ticket and lied to my husband saying that I needed a break with a girlfriend- I even went as far as having my husband drive me to the airport.
> I agreed to meet a stranger for sex, basically. We spent five days together and I am still processing what happened. I wanted intimacy and friendship and an escape from reality...and what I got was being degraded and used by someone I didn't even know. He physically assaulted me and it has seriously messed with my mind. It became clear that he was only in it for sex, he didn't really want a friendship after. I tried to continue our chatting, but he became a totally different person. Went from nightly chats lasting up to four hours to him telling me I was 'selfish and crazy' for trying to stay in contact after. He actually became pretty mean to me so of course this confused me. Then I stumbled upon him on several dating and sex sites, all stating that he was a widower looking for love-when the truth is he is married and living in a different part of the country then he claimed. I've been putting the pieces together and realized that most of our chats were done probably while he was in bed with his wife, which kills me. I cannot accept that someone who told me how much he cared about me and promised to never hurt me could sleep with me, then turn around and almost overnight act like I was nothing. Is this just how things are in the real world? It pretty much broke my heart and I feel such a range of emotions regarding him.
> ...


Hiya Tinker sorry you here I feel that in order for you to recover from the affair that you will need to make a clean break from the OM what he is doing is called fishing calling every once in while just to see if he can pull your strings so to speak unfortunately very few affairs ever turn into long term relationships affairs do die under exposure I feel that this creep should be exposed to your husband and you need to be accountable for your actions has yr husband been tested for std's ? have you been tested ?? what your husband is doing is called rug sweeping i.e. ignoring reality and hoping it will just go away i know you mentioned trying to have children when your marriage is well on the way to recovery have yall ever considered adoption ? Yes a man that hits on a married woman is only out after one thing and you have experienced it first hand notice his actions as soon as he got what he wanted and how he started treating you he played you like a violin and will continue to do so as he knows your weaknesses and vulnearbilities. I would get honest with your husband and with yourself and getinto some mc as well as the ic that you are currently doing also mention to your husband that you would like more time with him etc 


Good Luck


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

This has all happened in the last two months. I have been given conflicting advice regarding telling the OM's wife, my husband says she must know already and that it's not my place to tell her- that I will come off as a jealous scorned woman. I am in twice a week counseling. I have ended all contact, but I guess I need to delete my email and change my phone number anyway. I don't think he's going to contact me, he is on to his next game. And he's already on cheaterville. So apparently I was just one of many women he's
Done this with. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

youre right in some aspects about you contacting the wife, that's why your husband should do it

I hope he does


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Then add to the cheaterville post - add your voice to that other woman so she isn't alone either.

btw - put a print out of the cheaterville entry in the envelope to the OMW.

Your husband is thinking that his rug sweeping will make it all go away. It isn't, and it won't. 

You both have gone through hard dark times and he's worried about dealing with things because he is afraid he will loose you if he pushes it. Perhaps it's because of how unstable you've acted? Don't know, but he and you need to face the problem here instead of hiding from it.

The monster is still outside the door and will be there until you open it and slay it.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> Thank you. This is exactly how I am feeling, I am disconnected from my husband and am desperately trying to get back to where we were. We've had a lot of issues the past two years, the last being a late term miscarriage and the loss of our dog which completely shut him down. So we were in a bad place before this happened. We dealt with it differently and I put myself in harms way. Obviously I realize this. I'm sure most of you will think I'm making excuses or I am crazy, but I was in a strange fog the past few months, I behaved in ways that are completely against my values and I made many mistakes. I was almost detached, it was like I was watching myself on a movie or something, like I wasn't even in my own body. This makes me sound crazy, but as soon as the fog started to lift, I wondered what on earth I'd been doing. My husband said he thought he had lost me for a few months. But I am lucid now and just want to make this work. I am not interested in contact with the OM at all now, but I do still think about him way too much which is why I came here hoping someone could help me to get past this and get him out of my mind. *I guess I don't really think o him as an abuser*, I have only internalized this and blamed myself, but I guess I should shift my thoughts to how terrible he was to me. And to whomever asked why I'm afraid of him- I dont exactly know the answer. *Maybe because this man clearly had a strange hold on me and I became a different person with him? *Or because he is incredibly angry and knows way too much about me? Or because I looked into his eyes and saw something almost unhuman? I am not sure but I am working on figuring it out. This has been so difficult for us, thank you to those who have given advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tinker, one minute you're saying that he abused you the next minute you say you don't think of him as an abuser.

Your husband sounds like a 'nice guy' but I think what keeps you thinking about the OM is that he is the antithesis of your husband. HE'S A JERK AND MAJOR A**HOLE!!

And I think he brought an excitement to your otherwise mundane life. He made you a bad girl and I think that is why you are obsessed with him.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Count of monte cristo, I think you're possibly right. I think I'm obsessed because I did act so completely out of character. But I don't want to be obsessed, I want to erase him from my memory. Hasn't anyone here ever acted in a way that left you befuddled afterwords? I am smart and know better and I love my husband. If i could have a redo, I would never have responded to this guy when he first messaged me. But I can't go back- all i can do is try to fix the damage now. you are right, I have a hard time seeing him as an abuser- I see it logically but on an emotional level, I just blame myself and in a way I think i deserve to be mistreated. This is years of issues for me, childhood abuse that I blamed myself for and honestly thought I had moved past until recently. My husband does not like to deal with things that are upsetting- through all of our miscarriages, etc. he never mentioned them again. He didn't grieve and didn't let me grieve, this is how it is here. He prefers to bury his head in the sand. And I can't force him- I'm jut spending one day at a time grateful that he's even willing to stay married to me. And hope he will come around eventually, but for now I can only work on me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Actually, NLP has only been discredited by psychologists and psychiatrists in the same way that MDs look down on Chiropractors.
> 
> Anthony Robbins uses NLP and has been successful doing so. NLP is very effective in making immediate behavioral changes, whereas the traditional counseling model espouses countless sessions before changes can be made.
> 
> I won't get into a debate about which approach is better (although NLP is a lot cheaper) but do some research before making such a blanket statement.


No debate from me either.Just that if it were me I would consider whether the approach was right for me,based on the fact that it has been and still is highly debatable.I did say I thought it was discredited,but I also said maybe I was wrong.The implication being that she could judge for herself if she found any merit in my post.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Sorry if this has been brought up and answered. You have tons of posts with lots of detail but it's hard to knit the whole story together.

You mentioned that your husband is a workaholic. How much time do the two of you spend each week alone in uninterrupted quality time?

You are not going to be able to build a marriage back up if the answer is anything less than 10, and 20 is more like it given what you've gone through. You may need to get creative, i.e., go to lunch with him during the work week at a hot dog stand, but that is what my husband and I have done and it's made a huge difference.

And 'you GUESS' you should change your phone and email so OM can't contact you? If you want to show anyone around here, including your husband that you're serious about recovering from all this, that should have been the #1 thing you did, BEFORE you made an appointment with a therapist.

And again, sorry if I've missed this in another post of yours--does your husband know this man is 'fishing' by recontacting you? If he isn't fishing, he's keeping tabs on you to make sure you keep your mouth shut.

I'm also disturbed by the fact that you mention your husband cheated on you plus he's a workaholic plus he's not making a big deal out of this. Maybe he is feeling guilt about his past and that is how he's handling it. But he either doesn't care this happened to you, or he's in massive quantities of pain right now that is going to have to come out somehow. I'd be concerned that he'd be tempted to push you away and cheat again. Do you have good reason to believe this isn't happening right now, even before you did what you did--or that he wouldn't be tempted now that this has happened?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

It's been rough. Most nights I am asleep when he gets home. We spend the weekends together but it's definitely not enough. And I'm feeling pretty hopeless after all these responses, especially the ones telling me that I must not actually love or respect my husband. I do, but also wonder if I am in as massive denial as my husband is and if I'm fighting a losing battle and wanting to fix something that is too broken. It didn't occur to me that the OM would try to contact me, I am pretty confident that he's not interested in that. And my mhusband knows he contacted me several weeks ago- he has access to all of my emails and read my last one telling OM to not contact me again. My husbands indiscretion was over a decade ago, it was a one time drunken mistake and we did goI to counseling and we've both completely moved past it. We are just trying to survive at this point. And not doing a very good job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> But I don't want to be obsessed, I want to erase him from my memory.
> 
> *No, you don't. You need to remember everything and process it so it won't happen again.*
> 
> ...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Accepting and owning your complicity in the affair is paramount. You need to look at the ugliness in its Cinemascope vista. OWN IT, ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR 50% OF SETTING UP AND GOING THROUGH WITH THE AFFAIR, AND STOP LAYING ALL THE BLAME AT THE OM'S FEET.

You were as culpable as he was. Okay, he turned out to be a sadist and used you as his slave. I get that you were not expecting that, but you were expecting something you knew you would never ask your husband to do, and that is why you took such great pains to fly cross-country to see this prick. You're not the first meek and mild housewife to sneak away from her humdrum marriage to experiment with raunchy behavior, and you won't be the last. Again, you should thank your lucky stars this guy was just a run of the mill perv, and not a serial killer. You are damn lucky to still be here talking to us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> And I'm feeling pretty hopeless after all these responses, especially the ones telling me that I must not actually love or respect my husband. I do, but also wonder if I am in as massive denial as my husband is and if I'm fighting a losing battle and wanting to fix something that is too broken.


I do believe you love your husband to a point but you are in denial and are not accepting responsibility for your bad decisions. You admit that you feel disconnected from your husband. You seem to ascribe some super powers to the OM and admit you are obsessed with him. You may feel guilt over what you did but not remorse. They are not the same thing. Until you accept your actions and truly own them you cannot move on and reconnect with your husband.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Okay. I probably haven't come off as remorseful as I truly am- I have been in agony over this, I know what I did was 100% wrong an I take full responsibility for what I did and the fact that I have hurt my husband so much. I do not place all of the blame on the OM. I know I opened myself up to a bad man who did violate and take advantage of me- but I was the one who opened myself up to that. I take full responsibility for that. I should not have even responded whe he initiated contact. Trust me, what I've done goes against everything I have always believed in, my values and what I expect from my marriage. I have committed myself to therapy and to try to fix what is obviously wrong with ME that I've done this. This is all I can do right now. I am on the verge of collapse and am trying all I can to pull myself out of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

This is another example of what happens when you don't give your women enough attention. I honestly didn't know it's _that _important to them. 

These stories have really got me thinking.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Complexity said:


> This is another example of what happens when you don't give your women enough attention. I honestly didn't know it's _that _important to them.
> 
> These stories have really got me thinking.


There are also example's where men gave too much attention to their women, yet they slept with other men.

Each women is different I guess.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

keko said:


> There are also example's where men gave too much attention to their women, yet they slept with other men.
> 
> Each women is different I guess.


Precisely, too much and you're "Beta", too little and this happens. A very hard balance to get.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> I do believe you love your husband to a point but you are in denial and are not accepting responsibility for your bad decisions. You admit that you feel disconnected from your husband. You seem to ascribe some super powers to the OM and admit you are obsessed with him. You may feel guilt over what you did but not remorse. They are not the same thing. Until you accept your actions and truly own them you cannot move on and reconnect with your husband.



To me, OP has come off as someone who is very incredibly naive and stupid(sorry tinker). The nature of the meeting was itself very dangerous.

That said, she is all over the place. What do you plan to do now tinker?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> Okay. I probably haven't come off as remorseful as I truly am- I have been in agony over this, I know what I did was 100% wrong an I take full responsibility for what I did and the fact that I have hurt my husband so much. I do not place all of the blame on the OM. I know I opened myself up to a bad man who did violate and take advantage of me- but I was the one who opened myself up to that. I take full responsibility for that. I should not have even responded whe he initiated contact. Trust me, what I've done goes against everything I have always believed in, my values and what I expect from my marriage. I have committed myself to therapy and to try to fix what is obviously wrong with ME that I've done this. This is all I can do right now. I am on the verge of collapse and am trying all I can to pull myself out of this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tinker,

Most of the posters here are betrayed. It will be helpful for you to understand that first.

The feeling of guilt has started setting in in you.

If you truly love your husband, save him and yourself. I believe he is going to crack soon. So both of you need counseling.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I came here hoping I could see that my marriage could possibly be saved even made I've made this epic mistake. I'd hoped to hear from someone who had made it through something similar so I'd have a little hope that this could be overcome. Honestly, I don't know my next step. I am rather discouraged and it doesn't seem likely that my husband will ever really forgive me and that he's in denial. I dont have children and he is a good man. I have not behaved like a good person and I've been selfish and stupid, so I guess I have my answer all along and I just didn't want to face it. He deserves better and I deserve less. Thanks for your help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I came here hoping I could see that my marriage could possibly be saved even made I've made this epic mistake. I'd hoped to hear from someone who had made it through something similar so I'd have a little hope that this could be overcome. Honestly, I don't know my next step. I am rather discouraged and it doesn't seem likely that my husband will ever really forgive me and that he's in denial. I dont have children and he is a good man. I have not behaved like a good person and I've been selfish and stupid, so I guess I have my answer all along and I just didn't want to face it. He deserves better and I deserve less. Thanks for your help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



some of us have made it, if you have an hour you can read my story

but it takes certain types of people and a bunch of work and patience and above all else- love, remorse, honesty and openness


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Tinker,

Go home and relax.See your therapist.
Prayers.

AU


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

What's your definition of forgiveness?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Go read Tover's thread - they've made it so far, and his wife did much much much worse than you did.


Look Tinker - you say you want a path out of the darkness - you have always had it - it is free will and choice. Yes you really screwed up - but today and tomorrow and the next days are opportunities for you to make better choices.

This is all part of the responsibility equation. You take responsibility for your past choices, BUT you also take responsibility for making good choices from now on.

Make that your new obsession. Doing better by you and your husband today and tomorrow, than you did yesterday. I'm not talking big dramatic actions like around the world trips or renting out disneyland. I'm talking consciously choosing at every decision throughout the day to choose those things which grow the marriage and heal you and him.

Don't give into being lazy either - like a workout schedule - you won't always feel like doing it - but there is that choice thing again - you choose to do it, even if you don't feel like it.

Don't despair - choose to fix and improve.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I came here hoping I could see that my marriage could possibly be saved even made I've made this epic mistake. I'd hoped to hear from someone who had made it through something similar so I'd have a little hope that this could be overcome. Honestly, I don't know my next step. I am rather discouraged and it doesn't seem likely that my husband will ever really forgive me and that he's in denial. I dont have children and he is a good man. I have not behaved like a good person and I've been selfish and stupid, so I guess I have my answer all along and I just didn't want to face it. He deserves better and I deserve less. Thanks for your help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


so much self hatred in your posts


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Tinker, there are couples here who have been successful at marital reconciliation in this forum. Beowulf and Morrigan, and Almostrecovered and his wife. Perhaps if you go to the Reconciliation forum, you may be able to find more who have. You don't have to post if you don't want to, you can even PM those you feel can help you (like the members who have reconciled). Lurking and reading is also a great way to learn from those that have experienced the ordeal of infidelity. My point is that you don't have to leave TAM in order to benefit from it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm very direct when I talk to people. My intent was to shake you out of the self-induced mist you are in and make you understand that the only way you can fix this problem is to get down and dirty with your issues. You have to buckle down and do the hard work towards making things right with your husband and ultimately yourself.

I'll admit I'm not fully in your corner right now. It is hard to suppport someone who has so little self value and reckless regard for her own health and safety. You risked your life to go and have sex with a man you only knew through pixels on a computer screen, and you are damn lucky he only raped you and smacked you around. 

My heart is really with your husband. He's the one I worry about. I recently just narrowly avoided a heart attack because I was not processing the stress of my breakup. If you don't insist he get to a doctor and get himself fully checked out, you will be culpable in whatever illnesses or mental breakdown that occurs with him because of this stupid stunt you pulled.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Four months ago I was in terrible place, I had just lost a baby at 18 weeks and my dog died, I asked my husband to give me fifteen minutes attention a day, he told me that was more than he could give. I was so alone and debating suicide when I joined a bereavement group online. That is how the other man found me- he used the worst thing that had ever happened to me as an opportunity to use and discard me. And I let him, I was in the lowest point imaginable and I did not care if he killed me. I didn't care what happened and in fact a part of me hoped he'd put me out of my misery. And I felt truly that my husband would be better off without me. Part of my fog has lifted but I'm still in a bad place. I know emotions run high on the subject, but there is more than one angle to every story. I don't think anyone deserves their love for their spouse to be questioned- yeah, I royally screwed up. I did something unforgivable and I probably won't be able to fix it. But it was also just the tip of the iceberg for us. It's pretty hard to not have a little self hatred when I am told by complete strangers that I dont love my husband and that he deserves better than me. I had given my whole heart and soul to his man for eighteen years, four months does not define who I am. And HE is the one telling me this- he is at peace with what I did because he knows I am so sorry. He loves me uncondiotionally and is committed to me. It's not sweeping under the rug, it's him dealing with the 'worse' part of the vows we made. I really just wanted some hope by coming here, but it's really affected me in the opposite way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good comeback. I think I understand a little more now.

I for one don't doubt you love your husband, but you need to work on loving yourself again and digging out the root of this self hatred. Your childhood abuse was not your fault. Your miscarriages, regardless of how you try to spin them, were not your failures. 

My wife had three miscarriages and was unable to concieve children. These tragedies, however, do not excuse her poor choice to cheat on me twice with two different men. 

You need to work towards a point where you can separate the past pains and heartbreaks in your life from your marriage. Your marriage is a holy institution, and you must learn strategies to make sure the wounded side of your life does not bleed over into your marriage. You must keep the two separate.


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## Gooch78 (Mar 19, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> I would be devastated. We both were tested for STD's. I have an 18 year marriage that I do not want to give up on. I have been a faithful loving wife for all 18 years and had four months where I literally feel I had an emotional breakdown. I want to make it work. My husband wants to make it work. I just need a bit of help.


If you taste the nectar once and you will always want it, you will always want more. You opened Pandora's Box. He deserves more.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> Four months ago I was in terrible place, I had just lost a baby at 18 weeks and my dog died, I asked my husband to give me fifteen minutes attention a day, he told me that was more than he could give. . I had given my whole heart and soul to his man for eighteen years, four months does not define who I am. And HE is the one telling me this- he is at peace with what I did because he knows I am so sorry. He loves me uncondiotionally and is committed to me. It's not sweeping under the rug, it's him dealing with the 'worse' part of the vows we made. I really just wanted some hope by coming here, but it's really affected me in the opposite way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tinker you asked for 15 minutes of undivided time and all his love in the world he couldnt give that to you ??? The minimum amount of time necessary to have a healthly relationship is 10 to 15 hours a week on average and I am not talking about lying on the couch watching tv together I am talking about paying attention to you going out on dates etc maybe some fun stuff like when yall first started going out surely he was able to give you some attention then ?? Not exactly sure what your looking for most people on this site and been the reciepents of the consequences of affairs and are looking to restore their marriages or build a stronger marriage or both if you are willing to recover your marriage then their is gonna take some heavy lifting on your part to do that or you will be right back here in 6 months saying how you cant be faithful to your spouse


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## notperfectanymore (Mar 1, 2012)

Tinker,

I am SO VERY SORRY for the loss of your unborn baby and your dog 

PLEASE continue to get the help you need, to realize THAT YOU DO NOT DESERVE ABUSE and you are WORTHY OF TRUE LOVE. 

Continue to go to counseling, see if hubby will go with you...try to knock down that wall.....18 years speaks VOLUMES...you WILL BE ok....continue to work like you have been, get hubby to OPEN UP...

May I suggest YOU NAIL OM'S BALLS TO THE WALL!!! He is a predator...don't let it happen to others....

Head over to the reconciliation thread...much better place...you made a really bad decision...but you CAN recover, good luck to you....KEEP YOUR CHIN UP


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> so much self hatred in your posts


I think it's because from her abuse as a child, she blamed herself for it and her husband never helped to deal with it. She said he doesn't like to "dwell" on negative things. I think she really wanted to confide in him all these feelings and he brushed them off. Now that she's been essentially abused again her husband is doing the exact same thing. He's not helping her deal with the trauma which doesn't help because yet again she places the blame on herself. She does come across like a very naive/innocent person.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Complexity said:


> This is another example of what happens when you don't give your women enough attention. I honestly didn't know it's _that _important to them.
> 
> These stories have really got me thinking.


Who was it on here that said attention is like crack for women?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Who was it on here that said attention is like crack for women?


lol,

It really is, I always brushed it off but coming on here has really put things into perspective. If you actually think about it, it's the primary reason women fall in love with men, we're their "fix" essentially.

I always thought it was a nonsensical excuse when women say they cheated because they lacked attention, it really _is_ that important to them.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I came here hoping I could see that my marriage could possibly be saved even made I've made this epic mistake. I'd hoped to hear from someone who had made it through something similar so I'd have a little hope that this could be overcome. Honestly, I don't know my next step. I am rather discouraged and it doesn't seem likely that my husband will ever really forgive me and that he's in denial. I dont have children and he is a good man. I have not behaved like a good person and I've been selfish and stupid, so I guess I have my answer all along and I just didn't want to face it. He deserves better and I deserve less. Thanks for your help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tinker,

You can save your marriage. My wife had an affair and ended it on her own. She came clean that night and we started the process of reconciliation. Like your husband I didn't really react at first. I held it all in waiting for her to screw up again. She didn't. Then about three months into R I exploded. I unleashed a tidal wave of verbal and emotional abuse that lasted over a week. She never once got defensive. She took it because she thought she deserved it. The more she took the more I gave. Until finally she curled up in the fetal position on the kitchen floor crying hysterically. I broke her. It was only then that I realized I needed help for my anger and frustration. I went to counseling. She was already in counseling. We started MC some time later. Its been 20 years since then. We are happier than ever and plan to renew our vows this year on our 30th anniversary. It can be done but its not easy. Hardest thing each of us has ever done.

The main problem I see with your situation is that you accepted abuse for five days. Then you contacted the OM after you promised NC. And now you say you are still obsessed with him. The last thing will hinder reconciliation because you can't have two men on your mind. As long as the OM is in your head your husband isn't. You need to take care of that before you and your husband can begin to heal.

Edit: Tinker you need to find a counselor who truly specializes in abuse. You need to work through those issues before you can forgive yourself and be whole again. Is it possible you are fixated on the OM because he abused you and it brought back childhood memories? You need a lot of self healing.


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## notperfectanymore (Mar 1, 2012)

Complexity said:


> lol,
> 
> It really is, I always brushed it off but coming on here has really put things into perspective. If you actually think about it, it's the primary reason women fall in love with men, we're their "fix" essentially.
> 
> I always thought it was a nonsensical excuse when women say they cheated because they lacked attention, it really _is_ that important to them.


:slap:

Well DUH!!! It still blows my mind that most men just don't get it...it IS our SEX.... at least most of us....


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I want the OM out of my mind. I am in counseling to work on forgetting him, forgiving myself and making myself healthy so I can be a
Good wife. I won't go into details but I will say that the OM is almost identical to the abuser in my past. I also have a history with self destructing and punishing myself when I am in a bad emotional state. This has happened over and over my entire life, in one form or another I have always sought out an external punishment when I'm in emotional distress. I do tend to believe that this is probably why I offered myself to the OM to hurt. I sort of knew what I was getting into, not the extent but I knew he'd hurt me. And I fully expected my husband to leave me over this but he didn't. He told me to go to a counselor and figure myself out, but he also doesn't want to 'rehash' it, so I need to respect his wishes too. He has started paying more attention to me and working less. My main hurdle now is to stop my focus on the OM. I am making progress but I'm no where near where I want to be. I feel like I need an exorcism.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well your husband may not want to rehash it, but I will say it is extremely likely that he does rehash it over and over and over again in his own mind


due to your past and current issues, he may be afraid to rehash it with you. When you get strong enough, let him know you want to hear it and will answer any questions he has, even if he fears it hurt you or it will hurt him

it needs to be dealt with head on and not buried


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## notperfectanymore (Mar 1, 2012)

tinker93 said:


> I want the OM out of my mind. I am in counseling to work on forgetting him, forgiving myself and making myself healthy so I can be a
> Good wife. I won't go into details but I will say that the OM is almost identical to the abuser in my past. I also have a history with self destructing and punishing myself when I am in a bad emotional state. This has happened over and over my entire life, in one form or another I have always sought out an external punishment when I'm in emotional distress. I do tend to believe that this is probably why I offered myself to the OM to hurt. I sort of knew what I was getting into, not the extent but I knew he'd hurt me. And I fully expected my husband to leave me over this but he didn't. He told me to go to a counselor and figure myself out, but he also doesn't want to 'rehash' it, so I need to respect his wishes too. He has started paying more attention to me and working less. My main hurdle now is to stop my focus on the OM. I am making progress but I'm no where near where I want to be. I feel like I need an exorcism.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand...many posters here might not, due to being cheated on.

The OM is still in your head not because you are still "into him" but becuase you are thinking...."How the hell did that...who the hell was that...when did it go from standard affair partner to abuser"....and your mind is running @ 110mph trying to sort YOU out...correct?

Hang in there...continue with therapy, continue with your Hubby...let us know how you are doing. You are in my thoughts....


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I want the OM out of my mind. I am in counseling to work on forgetting him, forgiving myself and making myself healthy so I can be a
> Good wife. I won't go into details but I will say that the OM is almost identical to the abuser in my past. I also have a history with self destructing and punishing myself when I am in a bad emotional state. This has happened over and over my entire life, in one form or another I have always sought out an external punishment when I'm in emotional distress. I do tend to believe that this is probably why I offered myself to the OM to hurt. I sort of knew what I was getting into, not the extent but I knew he'd hurt me. And I fully expected my husband to leave me over this but he didn't. He told me to go to a counselor and figure myself out, but he also doesn't want to 'rehash' it, so I need to respect his wishes too. He has started paying more attention to me and working less. My main hurdle now is to stop my focus on the OM. I am making progress but I'm no where near where I want to be. I feel like I need an exorcism.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is hope Tinker. You seem like you know the issues and what needs to be done. I don't know the details of your past abuse but I would recommend a book that someone very close to me found enlightening and comforting. Its called _The Wounded Heart_ by Dan Allender. Continue your counseling and continue to get better.

Please don't take this wrong but I hope you at least smile a little at this:


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Why don't you get another dog?


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Actually, NLP has only been discredited by psychologists and psychiatrists in the same way that MDs look down on Chiropractors.
> 
> Anthony Robbins uses NLP and has been successful doing so. NLP is very effective in making immediate behavioral changes, whereas the traditional counseling model espouses countless sessions before changes can be made.
> 
> I won't get into a debate about which approach is better (although NLP is a lot cheaper) but do some research before making such a blanket statement.


Because Anthony Robbins is so credible? I feel sorry for your ignorance. You have been fooled.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I did get a new puppy about a month ago. Thank you so much, notperfectanymore- this is EXACTLY my thought process lately. Not romanticizing the OM in any way, not obsessing because I have feelings or want to be with him- I am just puzzled and beside myself that I let this happen. I thought I had moved past my old issues and was somewhat stable. And I'm left wondering what I put out there to attract the OM and what I was missing that I opened myself up to him. And thanks Beowulf, I will look into that book. And that did make me smilie- and I haven't done much of that lately. I have a master's degree and am pretty intelligent, so I struggling to find how I've been so stupid lately. My husband may very well be not rehashing it because he doesn't think I can handle it, he did mention that he thinks I'm really fragile these days. I just hope and pray in time that I can fix myself and we can have a future together. He is everything to me despite all of it. My heart is really in the right place...my mind is getting in the way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> ... I think I'm obsessed because I did act so completely out of character. ... I just blame myself and in a way I think i deserve to be mistreated. ... childhood abuse that I blamed myself for... but for now I can only work on me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think this is a big part of your problem. You hate yourself. Long before this ever happened. You believe you deserve to be pusnished and so you're looking to maintain a relationship with your punisher. I think you need to pic a new counselor and approach it from this angle.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I have a master's degree and am pretty intelligent, so I struggling to find how I've been so stupid lately.


Intellect doesn't enter into it.

You may be a great thinker tinker but have no notion on emotion (I'm a poet and didn't know it).

On TAM we have had marriage counselors and psychologists who have fallen into affairs. Intelligence is of the mind, feelings are of the heart. You'll get there.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> My husband may very well be not rehashing it because he doesn't think I can handle it, he did mention that he thinks I'm really fragile these days. I just hope and pray in time that I can fix myself and we can have a future together. He is everything to me despite all of it. My heart is really in the right place...my mind is getting in the way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Your husband acknowledges you're in a fragile state. Does he know you've been suicidal in the recent past? Is he giving you any more of his time?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Your obsession with the OM seems to come from the fact that you perceive him as so powerful.

--you see him as a seducer
--he is perfectly capable of violence
--you see him as a respected member of his community
--you are fearful that if you speak out against him, you will be branded a liar
--you are worried that your and your husband's reputations must be preserved; frankly, if this person tried to blackmail you, would you be brave enough to tell the police?

At the same time, you see yourself as weak
--you were abused before; you thought you were past it
--you are dismayed that you could be victimized--again. 
--you are worried that there is something in you that makes you vulnerable to this happening yet another time in the future. 

You also put your husband on a pedestal; he is so great, loving, perfect, even though
--he cheated on you before; you say it's an ONS and you're past it, but why then did you bring it up to us?
--he works so much he doesn't even have 15 minutes in a day for you
--you have endured a very traumatic event and he is choosing to move briskly away from it, for whatever reason.

You refuse to contact OMW, based on the idea that you will be perceived as a spurned lover. Well, your husband can inform her; what mixed motives could he have? But he doesn't want to tell her--why is this? I think it's another thing that is making you feel powerless, he is not acting in a way that can help you reclaim some control over this tragedy.

You could still step up and take control by informing her anonymously and posting on cheaterville. Then at least your conscience can be clear that you put some effort into stopping his behavior or at a minimum warning others.



By the way, are you going to change your email and phone #? sorry if I missed your post where you affirmatively promised you'd do it. 

It really hurts your credibility about wanting to get over the OM; maybe what you really want to do is talk about him some more because your husband and IC don't want to indulge in your obsession?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

He's making an effort. He's working more from home so I'm not alone as much. He knows I've been struggling, it's been an ongoing problem in our relationship. I carry a great deal of shame and guilt because of the baby thing. He knows this, but at the same time he chooses to stay in denial because I think it makes him to sad to know how miserable I am. And he doesn't want any more details about my five days with the OM. He is really protective of me and I think it would just kill him. So I move forward in therapy and hope he'll join me down the road. I think he does see how burying things contributed to my isolation, which led to my desperation for attention and companionship. He's aware of that, but I think it's too painful for him to watch me destroy myself right now. He can't fix it and I know he's in pain too. It did come out in my last session that I acknowledge how horrible the OM was to me, yet I still wanted his approval. I think this is directly related to the type of abuse I lived with. This has brought so many things out and it's really almost unbearable trying to figure out. But I am in NC, I am doing what I can to forget the OM, I know I have to do that before I can focus on husband or anything else. Like I've said, my physical affair was really the Culmanation of a lot of issues...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I heart life- I deleted my email this afternoon. I hadn't done it before because I didn't think he would try and contact me. I do have him blocked on my phone as well. I think I will tell his wife because that's what I feel is right, but until yesterday the only person who had given me advice about that was my husband who is against it. He thinks it is not our place, that she likely already knows, and he doesn't want to hurt her. 
I only mentioned my husband cheating because I was told more than once that he deserved better than me and that I should do him a favor and leave. I know we have both behaved terribly but that seemed a little unfair considering I came here to try to find some hope and support that its possible to overcome this. 
I dont know what else to do. I can't disrespect my husband if he just wants to move forward. I am a bit afraid of retaliation so I've been kind of approaching it like I will leave him alone and he will do the same. I don't really know if I'm making the right choices at this point but I truly do want to forget the OM and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Enginerd said:


> Because Anthony Robbins is so credible? I feel sorry for your ignorance. You have been fooled.



Thank you. Can I have another. :rofl:


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm glad to hear you took affirmative steps to block contact from the OM.

Again, you can advise his wife anonymously. If you are fearful of retaliation--and this man seems more than capable of it--then disguise your message by leaving out identifying information and don't mail it from your state. You are in all likelihood protected by the fact that he has various women out there who would have the incentive to tell his wife.

I hope you tell your husband, however. Contacting an OMW is a form of contact with an OM and if you've promised NC, you are obliged to let your husband know about this type of contact as well.

You can, of course, choose not to inform the OMW. It's certainly understandable that you don't want to embroil a person like this man in your life further after you've been working on extricating yourself. But part of your hangup seems to be that you see him as having controlled you, and that by extension your obsession allows him to continue a form of control. It would seem that defending others from his ways would be a way for you to regain power.

In your previous abuse situation, did that person ever see justice? Whether official or simply karma? did they inflict such abuse on others when you could have stopped them? basically, are there these same types of parallels of a powerful person inflicting harm with no repercussions in both situations.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I have a friend in another state who has agreed to send a letter to the OM's wife if I do decide to do this. I won't do it without my husbands knowledge and agreement. I do see the OM as having power over me, and there is photographic evidence of part of what happened between us. I can't bear the thought that this would come back to my husband. That would absolutely destroy him and I can't hurt him any more than I have. I have to make this work. 
As far as my past abuser- no, not even karma has come back. He is a family member although I'm not in contact with him, but he has never suffered a consequence from it. And the only person I told while it was happening didn't believe me and continued to keep me in his world. In a way this is how I'm with my husband, as soon as we turned 18 he married me- he did love me but I think rescuing me was a big incentive as well. 
So, as you can see we are quite the mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I am very remorseful. I have done something that I did not think I was capable of and hurt the best person I know. I am in individual counseling and want to do marriage counseling but according to my husband, he's forgiven me and just wants to bury it and move on. He knows this is not my character. Still I worry that it will come back down the road...


And yet you are here:

"Then I stumbled upon him on several dating and sex sites, all stating that he was a widower looking for love-when the truth is he is married and living in a different part of the country then he claimed."

This refutes everything you say about making a mistake, being sorry and remorseful. Unless of course your husband enjoys you going on sex hookup sites. Can you explain why you are trolling these sites?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

chapparal said:


> And yet you are here:
> 
> "Then I stumbled upon him on several dating and sex sites, all stating that he was a widower looking for love-when the truth is he is married and living in a different part of the country then he claimed."
> 
> This refutes everything you say about making a mistake, being sorry and remorseful. Unless of course your husband enjoys you going on sex hookup sites. Can you explain why you are trolling these sites?


I'm not trolling these sites- this all happened in the immediate days following meeting the OM. My husband knows all about it and I'm not looking anymore. If you'll read all of my posts I'd hope you'd understand that part of my checking these sites out was to see if he had posted pictures of me on them. All of that is over, I did save his dating profiles to show his wife if I decided to, but I'm in complete NC now and part of that is not looking at him. I have been defending myself an awful lot here and it is exhausting and discouraging. I know my intent and so does my husband, but I sincerely thank everyone who has given me advice. And to those who have sent me private messages telling me that I am evil and a *****- I am done defending myself. You don't know who I really am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Have you heard of the books the 5 Love Languages and His Needs / Her Needs? Both authors have websites with questionnaires you can fill out. One affirmative step you can take is finding out how your husband likes to experience love from you. That is, each person senses love from others in particular ways, but even spouses in long-term marriages might not be aware that they prefer to feel love from you via specific acts.

This would be a way to express love to your husband. Have him fill out the questionnaires and then you can choose, in small simple ways, to show him that he means the world to you.

We all go through lulls in our marriages where we don't feel the passion. (Setting aside affair issues for a minute.) We have to fake it till we make it for a while. 

To give you perspective, I was (and am) tremendously hurt by my husband's infidelity. I have moments where I doubt whether I love him at all. But I've found that showing small acts of kindness and specific acts of love increase my love for him. And because they're tailored to him, he appreciates them far more than if I had chosen these expressions based on my preferences.

But you are still going to have to do something about spending lots of quality alone time with your husband. That is a dealbreaker right there to your marriage getting back on track. As I said, you will need to figure out how to spend time with him if he can't find time for you. Whether it's doing office work so you're near him on the job, or having lunches with him, or not going to bed early and going to bed together (preferably ALL of these) this needs to become your #1 priority if you're serious about marriage recovery.


P.S., I forgot to ask if your IC has you on anti-depressants, again, sorry if I missed that detail somewhere


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks again, iheartlife- this is the kind of perspective I hoped to find here. I am on antidepressants but just started so still waiting there. We are making small progress, more time together, etc. but right now it's still mostly going through the motions. I am glad to know that this is common. We certainly need more time together, so i need to insist on that I guess. I will definitely check out both books, I am more than willing to do whatever it takes to make this work. I just really needed some hope that it's possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I'm not trolling these sites- this all happened in the immediate days following meeting the OM. My husband knows all about it and I'm not looking anymore. If you'll read all of my posts I'd hope you'd understand that part of my checking these sites out was to see if he had posted pictures of me on them. All of that is over, I did save his dating profiles to show his wife if I decided to, but I'm in complete NC now and part of that is not looking at him. I have been defending myself an awful lot here and it is exhausting and discouraging. I know my intent and so does my husband, but I sincerely thank everyone who has given me advice. And to those who have sent me private messages telling me that I am evil and a *****- I am done defending myself. You don't know who I really am.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I did not see where you were looking for your pictures on the internet. Do you remember what page that is on? 

A big reason to out him is the fact that he is violent. 
Sooner or later he will hit a little too hard, choke a little too much, tie a rope a little to tight and he might get away with it.
He may also be into children.

I would send his wife everything I could get on him and send a copy to the police in his area. I would make sure they know your husband is an attorney. That should be a good incentive to not post your pictures.

Good luck


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Go to this page and print the wayward spouse instructions and read them with your husband. Its about the 11 post down.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sided-need-perspective-please.html#post534068


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I also didn't see the answer to the question whether you were refusing to have sex with your husband now or whether ot not the two of you were having sex.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> You don't know who I really am.


That is true. We only have what you tell us.

If possible, have him reported to the sites


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

If posters are sending insulting pm's then report them to a moderator


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I guess I didn't say I was looking for myself on the sites- I made a few posts that all went together in my mind but probably didn't add up to anyone else. I am on NC with him and don't desire any contact. I know he has the potential to be very dangerous and I am done with him. Its the dwelling on what happened that brought me here- I wanted to know how to move past him and make my husband my number one focus. 
I have copies of our chat history, room receipt and some texts. I added him on to cheaterville even though he was already on there. The pictures and video are of me, not him so he doesn't have much incentive to not throw them back at me. If my husband does decide to expose him, he will write a letter. Right now I'm leaving that to him but I know I need to file a police report. I get so overwhelmed and dont know where to start but I will commit myself to doing that. I dont want him to hurt anyone else. It's hard to know what the right thing to do is, I want that part of my life over. My husband and I are having sex, we have always had a great sex life and that's not changed. It has been difficult for me to feel very close to him but we are still connecting in that way. 
Thanks for the links and book suggestions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> If posters are sending insulting pm's then report them to a moderator


How do I do this? I'm sorry, I've searched around but I am on my phone and can't seem to even find a list of moderators or a report button? I've gotten a few really horrible messages and don't really need this right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Can you tell us who you got them from? There is an exclamation sign to the top right of your private message. Try using that.

You may not find them on mobile, so wait until you get on a laptop


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Some mods to pm

Amplexor
Deejo


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> I guess I didn't say I was looking for myself on the sites- I made a few posts that all went together in my mind but probably didn't add up to anyone else. I am on NC with him and don't desire any contact. I know he has the potential to be very dangerous and I am done with him. Its the dwelling on what happened that brought me here- I wanted to know how to move past him and make my husband my number one focus.
> I have copies of our chat history, room receipt and some texts. I added him on to cheaterville even though he was already on there. The pictures and video are of me, not him so he doesn't have much incentive to not throw them back at me. If my husband does decide to expose him, he will write a letter. Right now I'm leaving that to him but I know I need to file a police report. I get so overwhelmed and dont know where to start but I will commit myself to doing that. I dont want him to hurt anyone else. It's hard to know what the right thing to do is, I want that part of my life over. My husband and I are having sex, we have always had a great sex life and that's not changed. It has been difficult for me to feel very close to him but we are still connecting in that way.
> Thanks for the links and book suggestions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your closeness will come back with time. Your problem now is simple guilt, your ashamed of yourself and you don't believe you deserve his love. You are not going back to the way it was overnight. If he can keep connecting with you, sooner or later you will be able to reconnect. Right now you just don't believe you deserve forgiveness. Be the best wife ever and keep it up. You can make it better than ever.

Are you on meds from your doctor. Harde excercise/ workouts are the very best thing for me.

Have you checked out Tover's threads?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/33914-lesbian-bi-serial-oh-my.html


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

No exclamation sign by the messages on my phone. I'll wait to get to my laptop. I'd rather not name names, but there were three separate messages from people who have also posted here things in this thread that weren't very nice. I can handle criticism but I can't handle name calling or someone telling me that my husband would have been better off had I committed suicide. That's totally inappropriate and unnecessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

That's horrendous behavior

You can also turn off your pm function in the settings when you get to your laptop


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Thank you almostrecovered. 
I am on meds, I am a runner and thats been a huge relief for me. I've also stopped drinking wine, I don't think I have a drinking problem but it certainly doesn't help matters right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Good idea on staying off the booze for some time 

Did you save any evidence of the violence like photos?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> Good idea on staying off the booze for some time
> 
> Did you save any evidence of the violence like photos?


No. My husband saw the bruises and a cut but we didn't take pictures. I probably should have but we really weren't thinking straight. I do have a text from the morning after our first night together where OM admitted to it in a round about way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Unfortunately the charges probably won't stick then

That said it is still best to report it in case someone down the line also does and they could see a pattern

Since hubby is a lawyer he may know more


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> No exclamation sign by the messages on my phone. I'll wait to get to my laptop. I'd rather not name names, but there were three separate messages from people who have also posted here things in this thread that weren't very nice. I can handle criticism but I can't handle name calling or someone telling me that my husband would have been better off had I committed suicide. That's totally inappropriate and unnecessary.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


never knew we had such people here. Ignore them. This is the internet. Things like this are to be expected.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Yeah, it is too late for charges. Even then she agrees that she did not say no. They won't stick. But what she has are more than enough to expose him to his wife. That guy is a sexual predator. And tinker, you should expose him for yourself. Not for justice, Not your husband or for anyone else. Rape victims often feel empowered after confronting their abuser. This is one way for you to regain the feeling of control after this traumatic incident. See him sh!t his pants when you threaten to expose him what he is to everyone in his community. 

And why did you allow him to tape you? That was the most stupid mistake. Unless you are open to be seen naked on the internet, never make tapes. Even with your husband. These things get stolen/recovered from hard drives when you send them to repairs/lend them to friends/etc etc


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I can't fathom that her husband is a lawyer and yet will take no legal action against this a*shole. The more I hear about this husband of hers the less I like him.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> never knew we had such people here. Ignore them. This is the internet. Things like this are to be expected.


You can also turn off private messaging altogether.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I can't fathom that her husband is a lawyer and yet will take no legal action against this a*shole. The more I hear about this husband of hers the less I like him.


Agreed. If anyone EVER raised a hand to my wife... I don't care what the circumstances.


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I know now not to allow anyone to tape me, I can't change anything that has happened. Yes, I realize that I behaved like someone without a brain or morals. I'm going to have to find a way to live with that.
My husband is taking no legal action because he thinks of it as an affair- not an assault. In fact, that is how I viewed it until my therapist pointed out some things, I did some research, and I sought out advice here and another board. I am struggling because I didn't say no and I continued to stay with him for five days. I could have left, I didnt. I can't change the past, I'm just doing my best to work on the present and future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Have you decided anything about the exposure?


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## tinker93 (Apr 16, 2012)

I want to tell the wife. I'm planning on discussing it tomorrow in therapy and then with my husband. I want him to be a part of it, I won't do it behind his back. Right now I'm leaning towards anonymously doing it, but I do think she needs to know. I haven't decided what details to share, but I'm Planning on exposing him unless my therapist and husband are adamant that I don't. I dont think that will be the case though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Just remember that you are not doing it out of revenge or spite. Think of it as the abuse victim confronting her abuser.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

tinker93 said:


> No exclamation sign by the messages on my phone. I'll wait to get to my laptop. I'd rather not name names, but there were three separate messages from people who have also posted here things in this thread that weren't very nice. I can handle criticism but I can't handle name calling or someone telling me that my husband would have been better off had I committed suicide. That's totally inappropriate and unnecessary.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Those posters need to be reported immediately to the moderators.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Tinker,

I know it is hard for you, one you are dealing with guilt and anguish of OM's abuse.

Is your husband helpful in this matter?

Hang on here. Listen to the decent and helpful messages.

Take enough rest, take care of yourself.

Let us know how it is going...

AU


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