# Possible very very underground office affair



## Miona (8 mo ago)

I am sick to my stomach writing this. I think my husband is up to something, and if he is, he's very very underground. I am one of those people that needs to have actual proof. I am really trying to get myself out of denial, I'm so, so scared. I'm older and don't have much of a career or family, so due to my situation, I want to be 100% sure before I leave.

Yesterday he said he had a business meeting at a off-site location in the afternoon. I checked his phone's Google location at 3:30 it looked like it was in the parking lot of his office. Same at 4:00, and 4:30. Finally at 5:30 it showed up at the business meeting location. 

He came home and told me about his meeting. He told me it was long and he'd been there since 3:30. I replied, "Wow, that's a long meeting! You were there that whole time? Since 3:30? "
He says yes he was.

Today I check the Google timeline on his phone for yesterday. It shows the same thing it did yesterday. It looks like he left his office at 5:15 to drive to the meeting location, and arrived at 5:22. I don't know what he was doing between 3:30 and 5:15. Highly doubt he was sitting in the parking lot though. 

He did cheat on me many years ago, and thought we'd recovered, he's been in therapy, and seems like he was okay until recently - the spidey senses are going off again. Back then I did everything wrong about confronting him. He knows I check his phone. _He is extremely smart and wary._ I can't emphasize that enough. If something is happening, I would guess he makes all his calls from his office phone, leaves his phone in his car in the parking lot, possibly takes an Uber to meet up with someone.

I don't know where to start. His cell phone is completely clean, and he knows I have checked his location on Google, even though I told him I don't do that anymore. He's no dummy. He has his own private office and flexible working hours. I've thought about a car tracker, but if he is using uber or something, that won't work. Is hoverwatch still a thing? 

Basically I just am wondering what I can do before I go hire a private investigator. And how I can be as smart about this as possible. I'm so frightened and scared. 

Thank you.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Since he's so smart and since you know you can't trust him, a PI would be a good next step.


----------



## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

First step would be a voice activated recorder or two for his car, see if you can pick up a conversation he's deleting from his phone or something like that.

Also, if he knows you're checking his phone, it's entirely possible he has a second one if he's trying to keep something hidden. So, that said, it doesn't pay for itself, so If you share finances, I'd look through all of that to see if you can pick up on strange expenses.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> Since he's so smart and since you know you can't trust him, a PI would be a good next step.


Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what I'll do...but I guess I really want to be sure I'm covering all my bases right now. I'm so scared of screwing this up somehow.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Miona said:


> I am sick to my stomach writing this. I think my husband is up to something, and if he is, he's very very underground. I am one of those people that needs to have actual proof. I am really trying to get myself out of denial, I'm so, so scared. I'm older and don't have much of a career or family, so due to my situation, I want to be 100% sure before I leave.
> 
> Yesterday he said he had a business meeting at a off-site location in the afternoon. I checked his phone's Google location at 3:30 it looked like it was in the parking lot of his office. Same at 4:00, and 4:30. Finally at 5:30 it showed up at the business meeting location.
> 
> ...


If he's as sharp and techy as you say then I think you would be in for a long, slow, painful, road to try and catch him using normal methods.
If it's really deep underground... you're going to have to skip all the pain and jump straight to the pros (PI).

I would suggest to make this faster...plan a visit to your sisters for an overnight, or long Saturday, or GNO, or something like that.
Set up the opportunity and let the chips fall where they may.

Best of luck to you Miona.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Other than he lied about the time, if the locator showed he was in his office later than he said he was then he went to a meeting location, what do you actually think was happening? do you really think he was having sex in his office from 3:30 to 5? That is awfully risky. I understand office affairs but don't you think sex on premise is the stuff of movies & TV?

I suppose you could rent a car or borrow one from a friend & do your own surveillance before you spend the money on a PI,

Any chance he has 2 phones?

I'm not sure I understand your fear of screwing this up. If you are already suspicious of infidelity, your marriage is broken but not by your actions. Getting confirmation isn't a screw up. If the PI gets caught that professional probably has ways to talk themselves out of the situation without revealing you hired them. Do you think that if your spouse knows you went to that extreme that the spouse will leave you for your lack of trust?


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Using Uber? No, if anything, he will use a burner phone to hide his communication and tracks. Hiding a gps tracker and a VAR in his car would help get you the evidence you need. If this is an office affair, they are sometimes harder catch because the majority of their communications will be in person or in company IM.

Don’t expect to see him going to a hotel. If the OW is married, she will also want to cover her tracks. It is more likely for them to go to an isolated part of a nearby park and have sex or get a BJ in the backseat of his or her car. If it’s in his car, the VAR will get you the undeniable evidence.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

Zedd said:


> First step would be a voice activated recorder or two for his car, see if you can pick up a conversation he's deleting from his phone or something like that.
> 
> Also, if he knows you're checking his phone, it's entirely possible he has a second one if he's trying to keep something hidden. So, that said, it doesn't pay for itself, so If you share finances, I'd look through all of that to see if you can pick up on strange expenses.


I've looked through the house and even a little in his office, but haven't found a second phone. If he does, he might possibly hide it in his friend's garage. That's where he used to hide his marijuana.  
He probably would just use his office desk phone. I do all the money and bill-paying and I haven't noticed anything weird.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

You know what’s going on. If you need the proof, spend on a PI. Myself, I’d save that money to get myself out of there.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Miona said:


> Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what I'll do...but I guess I really want to be sure I'm covering all my bases right now. I'm so scared of screwing this up somehow.


I don't think you should be scared of "screwing this up".

If you're convinced he's having an affair then you really don't need proof in the first place.
I understand that you need it...I also needed it. But the reality is that you don't _have_ to have proof before making a decision.

With that in mind... are you clear on exactly what is considered "Proof"?
If he goes to a hotel is that proof? There could be lots of reasonable explanations for that.
Is it just lying that's considered proof?
etc.

Even if you don't have hard evidence, you can still walk away.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

You're so emotionally involved at this point that you should get the help of a disinterested third party who is not emotionally involved. Hire the PI. Or, as suggested, save the money for a lawyer. What a rough way to live.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> Other than he lied about the time, if the locator showed he was in his office later than he said he was then he went to a meeting location, what do you actually think was happening? do you really think he was having sex in his office from 3:30 to 5? That is awfully risky. I understand office affairs but don't you think sex on premise is the stuff of movies & TV?
> 
> I suppose you could rent a car or borrow one from a friend & do your own surveillance before you spend the money on a PI,
> 
> ...


Good questions. I don't know if I'm just so paranoid from years of dealing with this or what. Usually Google maps shows exactly his phone is while he's at work, it's almost always sitting on where his desk is. It was unusual it showed it was out in the parking lot for an hour or so. Of course, I know Google might not always be that accurate. I can't figure out why he'd tell me he was at a meeting he wasn't at yet. He might have another phone, I haven't seen or found any evidence of one though. 

Good point about the PI getting busted. I'm probably so scared I'm not thinking straight.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I echo the suggestion to hire a PI. Save yourself the headache of doing it yourself, and even if you find evidence, he may dismiss it but it will be difficult to dismiss pics and so on from a PI, if he’s having an affair.

As far as the timeline, he definitely lied because he told you he was at this other location the entire time. It seems like he eventually did make it there but why lie that he was there the entire time? Where there’s smoke...there’s fire. 😔


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I hate to say this, as someone who worked with (not for, but with) Google, but their maps service is, sometimes, utter ****.

Couple of times I have asked Google Maps for walking directions. After I follow the directions and have walked two miles or so, Google Maps then "auto corrects" and informs me that it has sent me in the opposite direction to where I should have gone.

I was in Liverpool on business using Google maps again, but on following the directions I find myself at a newly installed statue. Apparently due to millions of Google searches for the statue (it was for Cilla Black a famed Liverpudlian pop star) the search results had bled over other Google products, including maps.

And the location service is equally as suspect. It regularly records me as having been somewhere I know I have never visited. 

It's very possible that Google Maps got stuck in the last location your husband was at (parking area) and then updated when he was at the meeting location. 

It's possible your husband is cheating, but do not rely on Google for evidence, as it could be 100% wrong.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Precisely because you are too scared & upset to think straight is why you need a professional. 

Another Q, if the PI comes back after billing you for a week's worth of survelliance & reports nothing suspicious will you then be satisfied?


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> Using Uber? No, if anything, he will use a burner phone to hide his communication and tracks. Hiding a gps tracker and a VAR in his car would help get you the evidence you need. If this is an office affair, they are sometimes harder catch because the majority of their communications will be in person or in company IM.
> 
> Don’t expect to see him going to a hotel. If the OW is married, she will also want to cover her tracks. It is more likely for them to go to an isolated part of a nearby park and have sex or get a BJ in the backseat of his or her car. If it’s in his car, the VAR will get you the undeniable evidence.


Good points! His workplace is a huge old factory type facility with lots of potential hiding places. And he is the boss. There is even an old abandoned caretaker's apartment. Yikes, this is not looking good is it?


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Miona said:


> Good questions. I don't know if *I'm just so paranoid from years of dealing with this* or what. Usually Google maps shows exactly his phone is while he's at work, it's almost always sitting on where his desk is. It was unusual it showed it was out in the parking lot for an hour or so. Of course, I know Google might not always be that accurate. I can't figure out why he'd tell me he was at a meeting he wasn't at yet. He might have another phone, I haven't seen or found any evidence of one though.
> 
> Good point about the PI getting busted. I'm probably so scared I'm not thinking straight.


I am so sorry this happened. The pain is palpable in everything you post. 

You shouldn't be dealing with this at all, and even if you don't "catch" him this time, are you really happy living with someone you know for a fact you can't trust?


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Miona said:


> I've looked through the house and even a little in his office, but haven't found a second phone. If he does, he might possibly hide it in his friend's garage. That's where he used to hide his marijuana.
> He probably would just use his office desk phone. I do all the money and bill-paying and I haven't noticed anything weird.


Ok, how did you get into his office to search around? I have never seen any business that would just let a spouse in to search their spouses office. Assuming this is true, he absolutely knows that you did this.

Also, do you think it's possible that you are letting your thoughts get to your head? A 2 hour or more business meeting is not unrealistic. Many of those meetings are empty suits just babbling about nothing lol. I myself have to attend lunch meetings with female coworkers that often last well over an hour. Other than small talk, it's mainly business.

My advice is that unless you have something much more concrete like unexplained hotel room charges, pair of panties, lipstick stains on him, etc. Don't let these speculative assumptions fester and ruin the relationship with accusations.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> I hate to say this, as someone who worked with (not for, but with) Google, but their maps service is, sometimes, utter ****.
> 
> Couple of times I have asked Google Maps for walking directions. After I follow the directions and have walked two miles or so, Google Maps then "auto corrects" and informs me that it has sent me in the opposite direction to where I should have gone.
> 
> ...


Oh, I know Google maps can be absolutely crazy, and I try not to make myself crazier by looking at it too much! It seems been pretty accurate in his office location. This was an oddity. It did show him driving at 5:15 and a few points between his office and before he got to the meeting.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Your worst fears have been met, tearfully once.
The second time meeting will be that hello again, and that cool goodbye, forever hence.

A cheating penis is never to be underestimated.
They are deep divers and shallow liars.

They can only be trusted to return to the creme of the crime.
The deed is made dirty by the slimy deceit of that wiggly worm.


_The Typist-_


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> Precisely because you are too scared & upset to think straight is why you need a professional.
> 
> Another Q, if the PI comes back after billing you for a week's worth of survelliance & reports nothing suspicious will you then be satisfied?


Good question. I think I would be satisfied and revert to the usual Trust but Verify. I know, it's probably not the most healthy.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Hire a decective to do the work. You will have to pay a professional for their skills, but this will put your doubts to rest, or confirm you suspicions. Be prepared: It could get ugly. Or it could be absolutely nothing.

Good luck .. and be prepared if you husband discovers you've been snooping on him. Especially if he is innocent. That could to lead to a huge argument about trust, or lack of.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I am so sorry this happened. The pain is palpable in everything you post.
> 
> You shouldn't be dealing with this at all, and even if you don't "catch" him this time, are you really happy living with someone you know for a fact you can't trust?


We get along very well for the most part, enjoy the same things. I am mostly happy when I'm not worried about this.  (I know, it sounds crazy) This stuff has just flared up again over the last few months
and I really need to be sure nothing is happening.We've been married almost 30 years, I'm in my mid-50s, no real career to speak of, and deal with severe anxiety & other health issues which have made it hard to stay in the working world. That's what scares me the most - I'd lose my health insurance if we divorced, I don't know how I'd support myself.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Why live like this?

You stay with this man because of your dread of that feared-coming poverty.

Talk to a lawyer, your after-marriage situation might not be as bad as you think.

You will get 50% of the marital assets and maybe some alimony payments.

Right now, you have 0% peace of mind.
After the divorce, that peace of mind will be solely yours. 

Your soul will be at ease.
Your POM will day-by-day, rise to normality.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Miona said:


> We get along very well for the most part, enjoy the same things. I am mostly happy when I'm not worried about this.  (I know, it sounds crazy) This stuff has just flared up again over the last few months
> and I really need to be sure nothing is happening.We've been married almost 30 years, I'm in my mid-50s, no real career to speak of, and deal with severe anxiety & other health issues which have made it hard to stay in the working world. That's what scares me the most - I'd lose my health insurance if we divorced, I don't know how I'd support myself.


I know it's scary. It breaks my heart for you. Only you can decide if you can live with his cheating or not. But honestly, if you decide to stay, you'd be better served to stop checking on him. You know he's going to be unfaithful, and you said he hides it. If you stop looking, you likely won't see that he's cheating. 

What if in the mean time you went and looked for a job that has health insurance? Maybe something in your doctor's office, where you're surrounded by people who can also help you with your anxiety? I hope that suggestion isn't insensitive, I don't want you to think I'm making light of your issue. Just trying to be helpful. It's a bad situation, I'm sorry you find yourself here. Please know this is a flaw in HIM, not in you.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Ok, how did you get into his office to search around? I have never seen any business that would just let a spouse in to search their spouses office. Assuming this is true, he absolutely knows that you did this.
> 
> Also, do you think it's possible that you are letting your thoughts get to your head? A 2 hour or more business meeting is not unrealistic. Many of those meetings are empty suits just babbling about nothing lol. I myself have to attend lunch meetings with female coworkers that often last well over an hour. Other than small talk, it's mainly business.
> 
> My advice is that unless you have something much more concrete like unexplained hotel room charges, pair of panties, lipstick stains on him, etc. Don't let these speculative assumptions fester and ruin the relationship with accusations.


I've been at his office many times, to drop something off or pick him up, etc. I admit to looking in his desk drawers when he's been called away for a minute. The only thing I ever noticed was once a picture of me on his bookcase that was turned over once. I chalked that one up to being paranoid.

Totally not worried about a 2 hour business meeting. It's just that his phone was not there during the first hour of the meeting. 

There were some other very serious accusations being thrown around by an ex-employee about workplace affairs last fall, so my paranoia is in full swing. I probably should have mentioned it in my first post.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Miona said:


> I've been at his office many times, to drop something off or pick him up, etc. I admit to looking in his desk drawers when he's been called away for a minute. The only thing I ever noticed was once a picture of me on his bookcase that was turned over once. I chalked that one up to being paranoid.
> 
> Totally not worried about a 2 hour business meeting. It's just that his phone was not there during the first hour of the meeting.
> 
> There were some other very serious accusations being thrown around by an ex-employee about workplace affairs last fall, so my paranoia is in full swing. I probably should have mentioned it in my first post.


how about sitting down and talking with your husband? No snooping. Ask him.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> Other than he lied about the time, if the locator showed he was in his office later than he said he was then he went to a meeting location, what do you actually think was happening? do you really think he was having sex in his office from 3:30 to 5? That is awfully risky. I understand office affairs but don't you think sex on premise is the stuff of movies & TV?
> 
> I suppose you could rent a car or borrow one from a friend & do your own surveillance before you spend the money on a PI,
> 
> ...


Sex in the office nowadays is too risky for the smarter wayward, male or female.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> how about sitting down and talking with your husband? No snooping. Ask him.


My opinion about this:
That's a good option if you're prepared to walk away right now and just want to give him the chance to come clean.

If you need evidence... I wouldn't do this.
He will start the lying, minimizing, blameshifting, gaslighting games and then take things deeper.
Then you'll never find enough evidence and never be settled about it either.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I know it's scary. It breaks my heart for you. Only you can decide if you can live with his cheating or not. But honestly, if you decide to stay, you'd be better served to stop checking on him. You know he's going to be unfaithful, and you said he hides it. If you stop looking, you likely won't see that he's cheating.
> 
> What if in the mean time you went and looked for a job that has health insurance? Maybe something in your doctor's office, where you're surrounded by people who can also help you with your anxiety? I hope that suggestion isn't insensitive, I don't want you to think I'm making light of your issue. Just trying to be helpful. It's a bad situation, I'm sorry you find yourself here. Please know this is a flaw in HIM, not in you.


The only thing that keeps me from looking for a job that somebody once told me told me a job might screw up alimony payments. I feel horrible and selfish for thinking this way. I really do want to work, but don't know how long I can handle it.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> My opinion about this:
> That's a good option if you're prepared to walk away right now and just want to give him the chance to come clean.
> 
> If you need evidence... I wouldn't do this.
> ...


No, I don't plan on asking any direct questions about an affair. He lied to me for twenty years about the last ones.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Sex in the office nowadays is too risky for the smarter wayward, male or female.


Unless they are doing it in his car in a parking garage? Which is beyond risky these days given security cameras, cell phones, etc. I'm thinking this guy may in innocent of the presumed transgressions.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Miona said:


> The only thing that keeps me from looking for a job that somebody once told me told me a job might screw up alimony payments. I feel horrible and selfish for thinking this way. I really do want to work, but don't know how long I can handle it.


Honestly, if that's where your head is, why don't you talk to an attorney? Just because you talk to one doesn't mean you have to follow through. Perhaps if you knew what your options would be, you'd be better able to make your decision. Right now you're worried about what would happen because you're not sure. Perhaps a consult with a divorce attorney would be more helpful than a PI right now.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Unless they are doing it in his car in a parking garage? Which is beyond risky these days given security cameras, cell phones, etc. I'm thinking this guy may in innocent of the presumed transgressions.


Other woman's house, other woman's car?


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Honestly, if that's where your head is, why don't you talk to an attorney? Just because you talk to one doesn't mean you have to follow through. Perhaps if you knew what your options would be, you'd be better able to make your decision. Right now you're worried about what would happen because you're not sure. Perhaps a consult with a divorce attorney would be more helpful than a PI right now.


Thanks! This makes sense, I will do this.


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Miona said:


> Other woman's house, other woman's car?


Regardless of what he was doing & where... the issue of google showing him driving at 5:15-5:30 removes the possibility of him being honest.
If it was simply a location update problem, google would "jump" to the new location instead of mimicking him driving. (right google experts?).


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Miona said:


> The only thing that keeps me from looking for a job that somebody once told me told me a job might screw up alimony payments. I feel horrible and selfish for thinking this way. I really do want to work, but don't know how long I can handle it.


So you are not working & staying married so you can get health insurance & higher alimony? Do you know how much that makes you sound like a gold digger? Yikes. I assume these are simply practical considerations but they don't paint you in a flattering light.

Alimony is disfavored by the Courts anyway & there is thing called purported income, meaning just because you are not working if the other side proves that you could be working the court will ascribe some income to you even though you are not earning it. Laziness will not be rewarded. You don't get to sit home & collect just because you did not work while married. 

Talk to a lawyer.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Miona said:


> Other woman's house, other woman's car?


Possible. Or other man’s house/car. Never know these days


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> So you are not working & staying married so you can get health insurance & higher alimony? Do you know how much that makes you sound like a gold digger? Yikes. I assume these are simply practical considerations but they don't paint you in a flattering light.
> 
> Alimony is disfavored by the Courts anyway & there is thing called purported income, meaning just because you are not working if the other side proves that you could be working the court will ascribe some income to you even though you are not earning it. Laziness will not be rewarded. You don't get to sit home & collect just because you did not work while married.
> 
> Talk to a lawyer.


I know how it sounds, and I'm extremely ashamed and embarrassed of this. I do work with a part time job that pays very little, no benefits. I have anxiety, CPTSD, autism and other mental and physical illnesses which I'm in treatment for. My husband knew these things about me when were married and agreed to me working part time. I am not lazy. I work as hard as I can, both at home and at my job.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Miona said:


> I know how it sounds, and I'm extremely ashamed and embarrassed of this. I do work with a part time job that pays very little, no benefits. I have anxiety, CPTSD, autism and other mental and physical illnesses which I'm in treatment for. My husband knew these things about me when were married and agreed to me working part time. I am not lazy. I work as hard as I can, both at home and at my job.


He knew you would be dependent on him when he got you to marry him. Cheaters play the long game; if you're dependent on him then you are far less likely to leave him when he cheats. 😔


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Your medical issues change the dynamic. You really need to find out because some of your anxiety may be coloring your perceptions & fear may be making you irrational. Sometimes it is hard to think straight when you are upset.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He knew you would be dependent on him when he got you to marry him. Cheaters play the long game; if you're dependent on him then you are far less likely to leave him when he cheats. 😔


That moment when other members read your mind and post what you were going to post. ☺

I feel bad for you OP but Texasmom is 1000% right. Your husband knew you wouldn’t leave him and you’ve now become codependent on him. You have to decide if what he provides is worth surrendering your dignity. It’s really as simple as that.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Miona said:


> I know how it sounds, and I'm extremely ashamed and embarrassed of this. I do work with a part time job that pays very little, no benefits. I have anxiety, CPTSD, autism and other mental and physical illnesses which I'm in treatment for. My husband knew these things about me when were married and agreed to me working part time. I am not lazy. I work as hard as I can, both at home and at my job.


My heart hurts for you. I hope your husband isn’t cheating but if he is, please try your best to get out of the marriage. If he’s having an affair, he may leave you someday ...so I’d seek some legal advice for now, hire a PI. Do the things that you _can_ control right now. Sending peace and healing vibes your way. 🌼


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Your husband knew you wouldn’t leave him and you’ve now become codependent on him.


No one, ever, wants unaccountable and complete control over another adult for altruistic reasons. When you surrender your independence, you surrender the right to have any say in how you're treated.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> My heart hurts for you. I hope your husband isn’t cheating but if he is, please try your best to get out of the marriage. If he’s having an affair, he may leave you someday ...so I’d seek some legal advice for now, hire a PI. Do the things that you _can_ control right now. Sending peace and healing vibes your way. 🌼


Thank you for this - I think I have a few ideas from everyone on how to proceed next. Sometimes (well, most of the time) I'm so overwhelmed I just shut down and stick my head back in the sand.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> No one, ever, wants unaccountable and complete control over another adult for altruistic reasons. When you surrender your independence, you surrender the right to have any say in how you're treated.


Thank you Texasmom for your kind responses to me...I think he and I are both codependent, and I know I have to do something about that, let alone a possible affair. It's been so hard to face up to the facts of my marriage and my life, it's often easier to just ignore it all.


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I think a VAR in his car is a very easy first step that could likely get you some info.

Go to Best Buy and get a Sony one (I think model is PX470), the cheapest headphones they have, and lithium batteries. Plug headphones into the VAR and cut off the cable as close to VAR as possible, this will ensure it doesn't make any audible beeps etc like low battery.

Turn it on, go through the setup instructions, then wrap it in thin foam held on by rubber bands (leave the top where the mic is uncovered) so it doesn't rattle and drop it in his car, usually there are spots near the driver side footwell that have plastic interior panels you can slip it behind one of those.

If you can afford a PI, I would do both PI and VAR.

Cheaters cheat, so the fact that he is a known cheat, you are likely correct that he is cheating again, but I totally understand wanting smoking gun type evidence.

If you get proof, don't say anything, see an attorney, drop papers and ghost him.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Miona said:


> Thank you Texasmom for your kind responses to me...I think he and I are both codependent, and I know I have to do something about that, let alone a possible affair. It's been so hard to face up to the facts of my marriage and my life, it's often easier to just ignore it all.


It is so true that ignorance is bliss. It's scary and unpleasant to deal with a mess like this, especially one that is not of your own making. 😟


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ate you getting help for the pstd and other mental issues? Do you know the cause of them all?


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> *It is so true that ignorance is bliss.* It's scary and unpleasant to deal with a mess like this, especially one that is not of your own making. 😟


This springs to mind.....this..

_What if _he is not cheating, and OP's PTSD and insecurity is creating a false narrative.

This mandates further snooping to get at the real truth, and ease/eliminate/confirm the doubt.

Doubt is bad enough, re-doubt, the unending memory is nerve wracking.

If the man is innocent, you are pushing him into a corner, a corner he will soon escape from.

I am not saying he is innocent.
Get the proof.

If he is cheating, make your move, divorce.

If he is not cheating, stop this self-mutilation.

Often we provide the inner catalyst that leads to our own destruction, from without.
If you are impossible to live with, you will eventually be abandoned.
Or, at minimum, cheated on.



_Lilith-_


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> This springs to mind.....this..
> 
> _What if _he is not cheating, and OP's PTSD and insecurity is creating a false narrative.
> 
> ...


I hear you, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He’s cheated before.


----------



## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Miona said:


> I am sick to my stomach writing this. I think my husband is up to something, and if he is, he's very very underground. I am one of those people that needs to have actual proof. I am really trying to get myself out of denial, I'm so, so scared. I'm older and don't have much of a career or family, so due to my situation, I want to be 100% sure before I leave.
> 
> Yesterday he said he had a business meeting at a off-site location in the afternoon. I checked his phone's Google location at 3:30 it looked like it was in the parking lot of his office. Same at 4:00, and 4:30. Finally at 5:30 it showed up at the business meeting location.
> 
> ...


What more do you want to do? You have caught him in an obvious lie and he has betrayed you before. Save yourself time and just hire the private investigator to get you the proof you require.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Miona said:


> I am sick to my stomach writing this. I think my husband is up to something, and if he is, he's very very underground. I am one of those people that needs to have actual proof. I am really trying to get myself out of denial, I'm so, so scared. I'm older and don't have much of a career or family, so due to my situation, I want to be 100% sure before I leave.
> 
> Yesterday he said he had a business meeting at a off-site location in the afternoon. I checked his phone's Google location at 3:30 it looked like it was in the parking lot of his office. Same at 4:00, and 4:30. Finally at 5:30 it showed up at the business meeting location.
> 
> ...


@Miona ,

First I would recommend this Google Support link regarding "location" accuracy: Location Accuracy - Google Maps Community

Based on the way you described it, his phone may have been inside (like in his office building) and there was no big window to triangulate the location. No matter when he moved or left the office, Google Maps uses satelites and WiFi networks and cell-phone towers to triangulate--if he didn't have Google Maps open for any reason at the time of the erroneous location, it will have defaulted to it's least accurate location finding service, which may have been his WiFi hotspot. And then eventually it DID notice, and what it noticed is that he went where he said he was going to go. 

Second, I would recommend old-school detection. If he's smart and techie, then trying to outsmart him and out-tech him may not be wise--but he might be so concerned covering his tech footprints that he forgets about the old-school. Low Tech Ways to Gather Evidence

Third, I would recommend that you keep your heart open to discovering evidence that could go either way. You may discover he really was where he said he would be, because you find a receipt from the 7-11 next to the meeting at 3:20pm...proving he was where the meeting was. On the other hand, you may discover proof he was not where he said he would be, which proves location and dishonesty but not infidelity. So keep your heart open to the proof you discover, and don't jump to conclusions. Being away from the meeting from 3:30-5:15 doesn't necessarily prove adultery, but it DOES prove dishonestly and coverup. So don't make up your mind--don't jump to conclusions--do some DETECTIVE work and look at what the evidence truly supports.

Fourth, if you do find evidence of dishonesty, I believe hiring a PI would be the best money you've ever spent. A reputable one will give you the proof you need to move on--whether it's proof of "nothing going on" or proof that your gut feeling was right. I highly recommend a PI so your mind has peace.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The thing to remember is that all cheaters lie and serial cheaters tend to lie most of all — plus they’re usually very good at covering their tracks. Imregret that I didn’t get out the first time I caught my exH but there are always “reasons” to stay so I did until I couldn’t. I understand your situation and wish you the best.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @Miona ,
> 
> If you do find evidence of dishonesty, I believe hiring a PI would be the best money you've ever spent. A reputable one will give you the proof you need to move on--whether it's proof of "nothing going on" or proof that your gut feeling was right. I highly recommend a PI so your mind has peace.


Yes, that_ peace of mind_ that now finds itself divided and anxious in its thoughts.

For starters, and to save funds, you could have a friend check up on him, a time or two.
A friend to you, an unknown quantity to him.

If he is cheating it will not be a one-time occurrence.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Keep in mind that he could be riding in someone else's car from work going somewhere. So if he has a second phone, as I'm guessing he does, he could be leaving the main phone in the car or at work or something like that.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Miona said:


> Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what I'll do...but I guess I really want to be sure I'm covering all my bases right now. I'm so scared of screwing this up somehow.


PI was the best investment for me. Busted my XW first time out.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

D0nnivain said:


> _*So you are not working & staying married so you can get health insurance & higher alimony? Do you know how much that makes you sound like a gold digger?
> *_



I guess you MISSED where she posted her laundry list of emotional and mental health issues that prevent her from working?

And maybe you ALSO missed where she says she's been married *almost 30 years*?????

Do you understand what a gold digger actually IS?

How insulting.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Miona said:


> _*I know how it sounds, and I'm extremely ashamed and embarrassed of this. I do work with a part time job that pays very little, no benefits. I have anxiety, CPTSD, autism and other mental and physical illnesses which I'm in treatment for. My husband knew these things about me when were married and agreed to me working part time. I am not lazy. I work as hard as I can, both at home and at my job.*_



You don't need to defend yourself to *anyone* here.

You've been married for 30 years and your financial situation was mutually AGREED UPON many many years ago. I'm still laughing about the ridiculous "gold digger" remark. After 30 YEARS, I guess you'd be digging your OWN gold, wouldn't you?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> PI was the best investment for me. Busted my XW first time out.


That had to be wild. Did the PI meet you - like in the movies - with a manilla folder of incriminating photos? I've heard a good PI is worth their weight in gold. Good hire by you.


----------



## fluffycoco (May 29, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Since he's so smart and since you know you can't trust him, a PI would be a good next step.


How much to hire a PI, and where can find one?


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

fluffycoco said:


> How much to hire a PI, and where can find one?


The prices vary by region. I have seen them for anywhere from $45 per hour to $150. You can find one by doing an internet search. If you can find "yellow pages" they are listed.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm not sure your husband is _that_ smart... he knows you check his location and when you ask him about his whereabouts he lies about it, knowing that you probably know where he was? This puzzles me...


----------



## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not sure your husband is _that_ smart... he knows you check his location and when you ask him about his whereabouts he lies about it, knowing that you probably know where he was? This puzzles me...


I don’t think it’s that puzzling really, at least not to me.
It’s pretty standard for cheaters to boldly lie even in the face of hard evidence.
And, as we’ve seen in this thread, blaming google location issues is both reasonable and believable.

If OP is codependent with medical issues as mentioned, then WH may fear no retribution in telling her anything he wants her to believe. He thinks she will just go away and stop bothering him eventually, just like the first time. Because he thinks… what choice does she have?


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

How are you doing today @Miona ?


----------



## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Miona said:


> I've looked through the house and even a little in his office, but haven't found a second phone.


Doubtful that he would need one. There are apps that can act as another phone. Some even auto delete messages after a certain amount of time. They could also just be on something else that's untraceable through phone records, such as facebook messenger. There are way too many ways to hide things. A professional might just be your best bet.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Miona said:


> I am sick to my stomach writing this. I think my husband is up to something, and if he is, he's very very underground. I am one of those people that needs to have actual proof. I am really trying to get myself out of denial, I'm so, so scared. I'm older and don't have much of a career or family, so due to my situation, I want to be 100% sure before I leave.
> 
> Yesterday he said he had a business meeting at a off-site location in the afternoon. I checked his phone's Google location at 3:30 it looked like it was in the parking lot of his office. Same at 4:00, and 4:30. Finally at 5:30 it showed up at the business meeting location.
> 
> ...


Is it possible he went to the office to do some pre meeting work, review documents, etc?


----------



## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

aine said:


> Is it possible he went to the office to do some pre meeting work, review documents, etc?


If so, why lie about where he was?

On the other hand, I wouldn't really trust the google location thing. Is there some other reason for concern, @Miona ?


----------



## initareed (9 mo ago)

Miona said:


> I am sick to my stomach writing this. I think my husband is up to something, and if he is, he's very very underground. I am one of those people that needs to have actual proof. I am really trying to get myself out of denial, I'm so, so scared. I'm older and don't have much of a career or family, so due to my situation, I want to be 100% sure before I leave.
> 
> Yesterday he said he had a business meeting at a off-site location in the afternoon. I checked his phone's Google location at 3:30 it looked like it was in the parking lot of his office. Same at 4:00, and 4:30. Finally at 5:30 it showed up at the business meeting location.
> 
> ...


Someone that savvy requires surveillance/PI...not sure of the laws where you are regarding recordings, but you can get a VAR and secure beneath his seat (if you know someone who is extra skilled/savvy, you can have them assist on installation) ...ie install it securely so as not to be discovered.

I'm sorry, hun.


----------



## initareed (9 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Ok, how did you get into his office to search around? I have never seen any business that would just let a spouse in to search their spouses office. Assuming this is true, he absolutely knows that you did this.
> 
> Also, do you think it's possible that you are letting your thoughts get to your head? A 2 hour or more business meeting is not unrealistic. Many of those meetings are empty suits just babbling about nothing lol. I myself have to attend lunch meetings with female coworkers that often last well over an hour. Other than small talk, it's mainly business.
> 
> My advice is that unless you have something much more concrete like unexplained hotel room charges, pair of panties, lipstick stains on him, etc. Don't let these speculative assumptions fester and ruin the relationship with accusations.


When I listened to this kind of advice, I wasted years of my life. My ExH was just able to eat cake longer...
There are ways to dig without showing her hand...her peace of mind would better benefit the marriage.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

initareed said:


> When I listened to this kind of advice, I wasted years of my life. My ExH was just able to eat cake longer...
> There are ways to dig without showing her hand...her peace of mind would better benefit the marriage.


What is the point of being in a relationship with someone if you are having to investigate them behind their back? That to me defeats all of the fun and benefits of being in that relationship. But I believe that everyone deserves to find and have someone they love, loves them back, and they can fully trust each other.


----------



## initareed (9 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> What is the point of being in a relationship with someone if you are having to investigate them behind their back? That to me defeats all of the fun and benefits of being in that relationship. But I believe that everyone deserves to find and have someone they love, loves them back, and they can fully trust each other.


The point is that everyone decides for themselves what constitutes a relationship to them. Something shady? See if there's fire with that smoke... All clear? Go about life and not worry. There's fire? You can make decisions where to go from there...

That trust thing can be a bunch of bullcrap if it means just sticking your head in the sand...


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> how about sitting down and talking with your husband? No snooping. Ask him.


This would work with a decent man who has no history of cheating. Unfortunately, this approach rarely works with men ( or women) married to people who come on this site.


----------



## initareed (9 mo ago)

aine said:


> This would work with a decent man who has no history of cheating. Unfortunately, this approach rarely works with men ( or women) married to people who come on this site.


This.


----------



## Miona (8 mo ago)

Hey everyone, I'm still here and so appreciate all your thoughts. I've been out of town and then came down with Covid, I've been pretty incapacitated for a few weeks. Plan on talking to a lawyer
and hiring a PI as soon as I stop coughing my brains out. My husband is currently interviewing for several jobs, we will most likely have to move. I really need to get busy with this. 

I've started therapy with a new therapist, getting treatment for CPTSD. He's having me start on traumatic memories from waaay back when I was a little kid. It really is so overwhelming.


----------



## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Miona said:


> He did cheat on me many years ago, and thought we'd recovered, he's been in therapy, and seems like he was okay until recently - the spidey senses are going off again. Back then I did everything wrong about confronting him. He knows I check his phone. _He is extremely smart and wary._ I can't emphasize that enough.


Gee, hope you get well soon!
The fact that he cheated before would set off my alarm bells.
Your spidey senses going off would set off more. BS tend to have a sixth sense about A s.
Still doesn't mean he is, but I'd absolutely be doing heavy-duty surreptitious snooping.


----------

