# Do women need to feel safe or unsafe to have wild sex?



## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

I've noticed that when a married man posts here about trying to get his wife to experiment more in the bedroom female posters will usually say that he needs to buy her things, talk to her, compliment her before she can become adventurous.

However, the same posters will readily admit that adventurous sex is something women will only do when young and in unstable relationships and that married men should expect vanilla sex. 

So which one is it? Why the hypocrisy? Why should men settle for this?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

No, men shouldn't settle for this.

I don't think there is a good, easy answer either. Much of it relates to early indoctrination that 'good girls' don't do that, so women won't with safe men.

It really sucks for men who find out that their wives cheat and then do all the things with the other man that were denied at home.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Huh? Married sex gets better when the married people are well matched and secure. Trust is #1 - in all things. The views you hold of one another are positive and supportive.

Just about everyone likes gifts and complements. (Ref. Love Languages). But used to buy sex these things cause resentment.

A lot of young married men view the world through a lens clouded by the probability of sex. They make a lot of mistakes that build up layer after layer of resentment. 

By the time that young woman reaches her sexual peak and is ready to go wild, she wants it with anyone but that guy.

All that aside, if she doesn't love having sex with you once the ring goes on and assuming you aren't doing a lot of love busters, you might be in for a long battle. Marriage counseling straightway. Marriage=sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RedRose14 (Aug 15, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I've noticed that when a married man posts here about trying to get his wife to experiment more in the bedroom female posters will usually say that he needs to buy her things, talk to her, compliment her before she can become adventurous.
> 
> However, the same posters will readily admit that adventurous sex is something women will only do when young and in unstable relationships and that married men should expect vanilla sex.
> 
> So which one is it? Why the hypocrisy? Why should men settle for this?


We're all different. ntamph, different people like different things and some are of a more adventurous nature than others. I have never bargained with my husband for sex, he has never needed to lavish me with gifts for favours in the bedroom.

I have been with my husband since I was 25 and am no more or less adventurous now than I was then. I'm not hugely adventurous, neither is hubby, we know what we like and we enjoy doing the things we do, we have no desire to try out the things we haven't tried i.e. anal sex, anything involving pain, sex with other people. I need to feel safe to have sex and if I felt unsafe in a relationship I can't envisage me having any sex at all, adventurous or vanilla. It's horses for courses


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

No one should settle for anything, sex is important. I fully believe that it should only take a heart to heart talk. I also think that sex is important enough to get ask for help, medical or counseling, but settling should not be an option as that can destroy a marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I've noticed that when a married man posts here about trying to get his wife to experiment more in the bedroom female posters will usually say that he needs to buy her things, talk to her, compliment her before she can become adventurous.
> 
> However, the same posters will readily admit that adventurous sex is something women will only do when young and in unstable relationships and that married men should expect vanilla sex.
> 
> So which one is it? Why the hypocrisy? Why should men settle for this?



Your premise is based on lopsided posts you read within this forum.

We hear from men who claim to be generous in word, deed and gifts of love. We hear from women who are dumbfounded about their lack of desire while at the same time complain about their mates being distant, unmanly or too beta, uncommunicative, demanding, insensitive... We also hear from women who are dumbfounded about why their mates lack desire for them. We don't often hear from men who are dumbfounded about the mysterious departure of their desire for their mate.

So then men tend to fall into two categories. 

1. "I want more sex. More nasty, freaky, I'll take anything I just gotta get laid."

2. I don't please my wife and need help.

The first category of men are much more common than the second.

While women are here because:

1. I don't want to have sex with him but he is driving me crazy.

2. Something is missing in our relationship and I think sex plays a big role.

3. Something is wrong with me in the sex department, low drive, no desire for mate, inability to orgasm...

4. Other. Women like me who through fire learned about having great sex and wish to offer help to others to get there too. While there are several men who post in here who have great sex with the partners, they are not as frequent a visitor as the "other" women tend to be.

For the record, I have never ever seen a male poster get advice that he should buy her nice gifts to get freaky sex. I think you have confused love languages (gifts) for payment in trade. That is insulting.

A good relationship between two adult includes an expressive, frequent and satisfying sex life. If your needs for that aren't getting met, talk to her to problem solve. If you're stuck, come here and let the many varied voices help wade through miscommunication.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I've noticed that when a married man posts here about trying to get his wife to experiment more in the bedroom female posters will usually say that he needs to buy her things, talk to her, compliment her before she can become adventurous.
> 
> However, the same posters will readily admit that adventurous sex is something women will only do when young and in unstable relationships and that married men should expect vanilla sex.
> 
> So which one is it? Why the hypocrisy? Why should men settle for this?


I've been with my husband for 24 years and our sex life is pushing the "adventure" envelop more than it did when we were in our 20's. Feeling safe is key, but trust is even more key. I'm not talking about safety or trust so much in the physical sense (although that surely is a must) but more in a sense of emotional trust, of being able to "let go" without feeling like it could someday come back to haunt me in the form of regrets. 

But sexual adventure is not for everyone, and people do change over time. Demanding that the key to a woman's sexual inhibitions be one thing or another for all time is fruitless. The intimacy level with my husband has waxed and waned over our relationship for different reasons, but it always tells in the bedroom. 

If you say to your partner, "Well, you USED to do this!," or "Well, you did this with someone else!" as justification for demanding that she do it with YOU won't yield results. You can be mad about this, you can call it hypocrisy and cry "bait and switch," but at the end of the day you're only going to entrench the behavior you rail against. 

If your parter cannot relax and enjoy the sort of adventurous sex you want, there is no guarantee that anything you do will change her. But I can pretty much guarantee you that getting indignant about it WON'T.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

ntamph said:


> I've noticed that when a married man posts here about trying to get his wife to experiment more in the bedroom female posters will usually say that he needs to buy her things, talk to her, compliment her before she can become adventurous.
> 
> However, the same posters will readily admit that adventurous sex is something women will only do when young and in unstable relationships and that married men should expect vanilla sex.
> 
> So which one is it? Why the hypocrisy? Why should men settle for this?



This is my theory. Women when single, will have wild adventurous sex and often, to try and get their man, to eventually get married maybe have kids. Once they get him, the chase is over, thus the effort doesn't have to be there, so they get comfy and let everything slide. Makes sense, yes?

It could also just be how they were raised and how they feel about their bodies, taking care of themselves, very fit, and not shy or insecure, etc.

If women and men, were the same before and after they got married sexually, marriages would be much better in the end. Less chances or sexting, EA or PA for sure.

Myself, I have a high sex drive. Could still have sex 1 - 3x day and wild adventurous sex too. But my wifee, LD and vanilla sex, has worn me down and I have given up and don't initiate anymore, nor do I try to be adventurous. I love her, but I don't care anymore and if I would of met a woman, who took care of herself, very fit, healthy high adventurous sex drive, dress sexy, in the shower, talk dirty, movies, toys, oils, you name it like most women like to do, I would of married her instead. You can't have it all......

Want what you don't have and when you finally get it, you don't want it as much anymore.

After getting married, he or she should want to do very wild and adventurous sex because you have each others backs and the risk isn't an issue. Or would you rather do this while single, get a STD or pregnant and they just high tail it? Makes no sense.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I've been with my husband for 24 years and our sex life is pushing the "adventure" envelop more than it did when we were in our 20's. Feeling safe is key, but trust is even more key. I'm not talking about safety or trust so much in the physical sense (although that surely is a must) but more in a sense of emotional trust, of being able to "let go" without feeling like it could someday come back to haunt me in the form of regrets.
> 
> But sexual adventure is not for everyone, and people do change over time. Demanding that the key to a woman's sexual inhibitions be one thing or another for all time is fruitless. The intimacy level with my husband has waxed and waned over our relationship for different reasons, but it always tells in the bedroom.
> 
> ...


I totally agree. One thing I want to add is this, for a woman to want to do this within marriage she has to trust that her husband won't use her past to browbeat her into doing something that may be degrading or traumatic. Many single women engage in drug use and having multiple partners. You wouldn't want her to do that while married do you? Do you want her to act single or like a married woman? 

Some men are just too insecure for their women to open up sexually. Once you start whining about what other guys got that you don't get, that shows your insecurity. Lots of beta guys feel they are missing the boat sexually and they place demands on their wife. Maybe because they feel that they would never get the kinky sex in this lifetime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

techmom said:


> I totally agree. One thing I want to add is this, for a woman to want to do this within marriage she has to trust that her husband won't use her past to browbeat her into doing something that may be degrading or traumatic. Many single women engage in drug use and having multiple partners. You wouldn't want her to do that while married do you? Do you want her to act single or like a married woman?
> 
> Some men are just too insecure for their women to open up sexually. Once you start whining about what other guys got that you don't get, that shows your insecurity. Lots of beta guys feel they are missing the boat sexually and they place demands on their wife. Maybe because they feel that they would never get the kinky sex in this lifetime.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If marrying you, promising to help raise children together, being at your mercy in a divorce, and working 40, 50, 60 hour weeks to pay for a family are not enough to inspire trust in a man then I don't know what to say.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Your premise is based on lopsided posts you read within this forum.
> 
> We hear from men who claim to be generous in word, deed and gifts of love. We hear from women who are dumbfounded about their lack of desire while at the same time complain about their mates being distant, unmanly or too beta, uncommunicative, demanding, insensitive... We also hear from women who are dumbfounded about why their mates lack desire for them. We don't often hear from men who are dumbfounded about the mysterious departure of their desire for their mate.
> 
> ...


You left out one group of women who are here. Those whose husband do not want sex with them or seldom want sex with them. This group is different than the "Something is missing in our relationship and I think sex plays a big role." group as the husband's refusal to have sex is a much bigger component in their marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> If marrying you, promising to help raise children together, being at your mercy in a divorce, and working 40, 50, 60 hour weeks to pay for a family are not enough to inspire trust in a man then I don't know what to say.


Women marry men and promise to have their children (and do), to raise those children, are at the mercy of divorce and infidelity, work 40, 50, 60 hour weeks ... sometimes as SAHM and sometimes to help support the family.

Marriage is a lot more than just that. It takes a lot more than just that to build trust. 

Trust also comes from treating each other with respect, from not putting one's spouse down, from spending time together and keeping the passion going in a marriage.

ETA: I think you missed the point of techmom's post. A woman will not trust a husband who uses "her past to browbeat her into doing something that may be degrading or traumatic. "


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ntamph said:


> If marrying you, promising to help raise children together, being at your mercy in a divorce, and working 40, 50, 60 hour weeks to pay for a family are not enough to inspire trust in a man then I don't know what to say.


Of course you don't know what more to say, you missed the boat entirely!


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Trust also comes from treating each other with respect, from not putting one's spouse down, from spending time together and keeping the passion going in a marriage.


And yet a ONS can very easily do all of these things for a woman within 20 minutes of meeting her.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

ntamph said:


> And yet a ONS can very easily do all of these things for a woman within 20 minutes of meeting her.


This statement shows that you have no idea how to please a wife in marriage. You just have no clue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> And yet a ONS can very easily do all of these things for a woman within 20 minutes of meeting her.


Really? you think that all women have one night stands and in 20 minutes do all kinds of risky, wild sexual things? Really.

It's more likely that woman A does this. Then you marry woman B and are not here complaining that your wife will not do what woman A did in her one night stand.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

ntamph said:


> If marrying you, promising to help raise children together, being at your mercy in a divorce, and working 40, 50, 60 hour weeks to pay for a family are not enough to inspire trust in a man then I don't know what to say.


This post has me believe that you would live with your parents and not support yourself, go childless and live off the government if you weren't married. 

The only reason why you work is because of your wife and kids, don't you need a roof over your head as well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> If marrying you, promising to help raise children together, being at your mercy in a divorce, and working 40, 50, 60 hour weeks to pay for a family are not enough to inspire trust in a man then I don't know what to say.


None of these things inspire the sort of trust needed to be sexually uninhibited. Totally different set of rules for that, I'm afraid.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Really? you think that all women have one night stands and in 20 minutes do all kinds of risky, wild sexual things? Really.
> .


I don't think, I know because women have posted on other threads that they made their future husbands wait weeks or even months for sex while having plenty of ONS in the past.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Really? you think that all women have one night stands and in 20 minutes do all kinds of risky, wild sexual things? Really.
> 
> It's more likely that woman A does this. Then you marry woman B and are not here complaining that your wife will not do what woman A did in her one night stand.



Very true and well said.:smthumbup:

If your woman was more vanilla sex and not wild or adventurous from the very beginning, she will more than likely be like that after marriage and down the road. If she was wild and adventurous and crazy from day one, she will more than likely be like that after marriage and down the road.

If all comes down to choice. Do we want to change? Do we really want to please our other half and meet their needs or not?

Woman A when you were dating, but woman B is the lady you married. Too different ladies altogether.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> None of these things inspire the sort of trust needed to be sexually uninhibited. Totally different set of rules for that, I'm afraid.


Fine. Then tell men, what should married men, in general, do to inspire trust and openness in their wives? I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I've noticed that when a married man posts here about trying to get his wife to experiment more in the bedroom female posters will usually say that he needs to buy her things, talk to her, compliment her before she can become adventurous.
> 
> *However, the same posters will readily admit that adventurous sex is something women will only do when young and in unstable relationships and that married men should expect vanilla sex.
> 
> So which one is it? Why the hypocrisy? Why should men settle for this?*


*

Eh? What? When? Where?

Not my experience. In my experience it just gets better and better over time. Why wouldn't it? They say you learn something new every day, and that can include new ways to give your partner more pleasure. That plus the deep trust and the mutual understanding, well I don't know what to say. If I found a battered old lamp and a magic genie told me I could rewind my wife back to how she was when we first met, I would decline that offer. My wife was lovely, sexy, fit and horny when we first met. She is even lovelier, sexier, as fit and more horny now.*


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Fine. Then tell men, what should married men, in general, do to inspire trust and openness in their wives? I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know.


Accept your wives as they are _now_, respect them as they are _now_. Stop thinking you can change their ways right _now_. If you are unhappy, communicate, don't demand. Don't try to buy sex or sexual behaviors--it's not about you paying the bills or taking her to expensive restaurants or helping with the kids or doing housework. It's about her believing you CONSIDER her as a person outside of her role as wife, mother, and sexual partner. Women feel as trapped as men do sometimes, but in a different way. I think we tend to feel like we lose control over our self-hood when we are expected to serve as wife and mother first, and a self-actualized individual last. 

Above all, have patience. Sexuality is not set in stone. It changes and waxes and wanes--for BETTER as well as for worse.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Very true and well said.:smthumbup:
> 
> If your woman was more vanilla sex and not wild or adventurous from the very beginning, she will more than likely be like that after marriage and down the road. If she was wild and adventurous and crazy from day one, she will more than likely be like that after marriage and down the road.
> 
> ...


Trust in a spouse inspires change, browbeating a partner for her past inspires a sexless marriage and cheating. Women do not like men who seem like whiny babies and say, "He gets the wild sex, why don't I? He gets it and doesn't have to marry, why don't I?" The same men who say this demonstrate that they feel entitled to all sorts of things just because they put a ring on your finger and can hold down a job. Well, congradulations here's a cookie!

They act like they are doing the wife a favor by letting her have his kids and supporting them. Golly, give this guy a metal. Many women hold down jobs, we support ourselves and are able to be working moms. Statements like ntamph made inspire women to keep their jobs so their husbands don't feel so entitled. This is what inspired independent women. SAHMs don't deserve the disrespect I see them receive on these boards. Try to hire someone to perform the tasks for your family that the SAHMs do. Then tell me she doesn't contribute to the family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

One more question:

If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on, what would you think?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph;3995202Really? you think that all women have one night stands and in 20 minutes do all kinds of risky said:


> ntamph said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think, I know because women have posted on other threads that they made their future husbands wait weeks or even months for sex while having plenty of ONS in the past.
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> One more question:
> 
> If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on, what would you think?


I think that he has the right to decide that he does not like a certain sexual act. 

If his reason is that he tried it before and he finds it disgusting then there is no problem. 

If his reason is that he find me, and only me, too disgusting to do that with.. but today he'd gladly do it to other women, I file for divorce.

I certainly would not harp on him to perform oral on me no matter the reason he did not want to do it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

So is your original question or comment that women are generally sl*ts that had or will have ONS but not have "wild" sex with their spouse? 

If this is what you think then I'm sorry. You can't generalize anyone like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I think that he has the right to decide that he does not like a certain sexual act.
> 
> If his reason is that he tried it before and he finds it disgusting then there is no problem.
> 
> ...


He does not find you disgusting nor did he not enjoy it with the other women, his sexuality has merely changed, ebbed and flowed, and evolved as time has gone by, like techmom and GettingIt said.

What would you do then?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> He does not find you disgusting nor did he not enjoy it with the other women, his sexuality has merely changed, ebbed and flowed, and evolved as time has gone by, like techmom and GettingIt said.
> 
> What would you do then?


I have already answered that in my post above. If he feels that he no longer likes to do oral sex I would accept that. I would never try to force a man to do something sexual that he does not feel comfortable doing. 



ntamph said:


> One more question:
> 
> If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on, what would you think?


But if you look at your quoted post above, your original statement was not that his sexuality merely ebbed/flowed. It was that “he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on”. That is a deal breaker to me because in that statement he’s telling me that I’m disgusting, unappealing, etc.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

ntamph said:


> One more question:
> 
> If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on, what would you think?


I'd think I'm not sure the reason you've said is the real reason.

I enjoy giving oral. My wife does not. That's fine. I give oral because I like doing it. It turns me on seeing my wife approaching climax. I try to time things so that I can finish her off with intercourse so that I get the orgasm too, but I sometimes mis-time it and take her all the way to climax before I get my share.

When I've chatted with my mates, and we do get right down in the gutter when there are no ladies present, it seems I'm not alone in my opinion.

Now here's a very, very awkward question, but one that needs to be asked. Do you keep your undercarriage appealing? For example, there is NOTHING worse, NOTHING at all, than getting sweaty pubic hairs in your mouth and having to discretely try to spit them out. Of course that's just my opinion. Different people have different, erm, tastes (pardon the pun).

Ok, sorry I had to ask, but I'm only trying rule out possibilities.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> That is a deal breaker to me because in that statement he’s telling me that I’m disgusting, unappealing, etc.


If a woman has done some things with her exes but can't do the same things with her husband, does that mean that he is not as appealing as her exes?


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

ntamph said:


> One more question:
> 
> If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on, what would you think?


Who performs oral sex for two hours or even an hour non-stop? It wouldn't feel very good to have that much stimulation for an hour without some kind of break.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> Who performs oral sex for two hours or even an hour non-stop? It wouldn't feel very good to have that much stimulation for an hour.


Fine. He did it with other women for as long as is comfortable. What matters is that he can't do it for you.

What would you do?


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

ntamph said:


> If a woman has done some things with her exes but can't do the same things with her husband, does that mean that he is not as appealing as her exes?


If a woman tried anal sex with her ex and got a tear from it, would it be right for the husband to demand it even though it hurts her? There are many reasons why woman may try things with her ex but won't do with her husband, that point seems to be lost for some reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> One more question:
> 
> If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on, what would you think?


You mean after I discussed it with him, right? Because he might say, "Well, my ex's all shaved bare. Do it, and I'm there!" or "Hey babe, maybe you should have that wart looked at."

I mean, there might be a REASON that we could work on together. 

But if he's just not and has never been into oral WITH ME then my choice is to accept it or not accept it. 

Pretty basic. 

As to what I'd think? I suppose I'd wonder if it was something about me, or if it was that he'd changed and just didn't get any enjoyment or satisfaction from it anymore. I doubt I'd arrive at any useful conclusions from such musings, though. 

I think my reaction would also depend on how the rest of our marriage and sex life was. If there was a lot of good otherwise, then I think I'd accept it and focus on being the best damn lover he's ever had . . . because you never know.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> But if he's just not and has never been into oral WITH ME then my choice is to accept it or not accept it.


If you hypothetically chose to not accept it, would that make you insecure, whiny, and beta, as some other posters have stated earlier in the thread?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> If a woman has done some things with her exes but can't do the same things with her husband, does that mean that he is not as appealing as her exes?


It does not automatically mean that her husband is not as appealing to her. Things it could mean:

1) In the past she was with a partner who was abusive and forced her to do things that made her feel degraded, etc. Now she made sure that she is not in an abusive relationship and she will not do things that make her feel degraded.

2) She tried it and just does not like it. It does not matter who the guy is, she just does not like it.

3) Or there is a problem in her relationship/marriage, probably a lack of emotional intimacy and so physical intimacy suffers.

I'm sure others could come up with more reasons.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> It does not automatically mean that her husband is not as appealing to her. Things it could mean:
> 
> 1) In the past she was with a partner who was abusive and forced her to do things that made her feel degraded, etc. Now she made sure that she is not in an abusive relationship and she will not do things that make her feel degraded.
> 
> ...


This answer is so much more nuanced and completely different than the one you gave in post #27.

I wonder why? The only things that are different in both scenarios is the gender.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> If you hypothetically chose to not accept it, would that make you insecure, whiny, and beta, as some other posters have stated earlier in the thread?


If you do not accept it, you can chose to divorce her. That's not being insecure, whiny or beta. That's accepting reality of the situation and sexual desires.

If you do not accept it, stay and then keep insisting that her refusal to do it is because she does not find you attractive enough.. you are insecure. If you keep bothering her and trying to push her into something she already told you she would not do you are being whiny, beta and destroying trust in the relationship.

Is this all about oral sex (bj's) in your case?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> This answer is so much more nuanced and completely different than the one you gave in post #27.
> 
> I wonder why? The only things that are different in both scenarios is the gender.


Good grief, I'm not writing for publication. I'm just writing things out quickly between chores around the house, talking to family members, answering phone calls and reading posts here.

And then you try to read all kinds of deep, dark, secret meanings into thing.

Try this.. it's more clarification. It does not matter the gender of either party. IT holds true no matter which is the man and which is the woman.

You are trying to hard to paint women as sneaky, untrustworthy, bait and switch wenches. Give up on it. It's not about all women. For you it's about you and your wife.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Good grief, I'm not writing for publication. I'm just writing things out quickly between chores around the house, talking to family members, answering phone calls and reading posts here.
> 
> And then you try to read all kinds of deep, dark, secret meanings into thing.
> 
> ...


Why did you automatically jump to the conclusion in post #27 that he found you unappealing and that divorce would be a good option but not in post #40?


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> If you hypothetically chose to not accept it, would that make you insecure, whiny, and beta, as some other posters have stated earlier in the thread?


Depends on how your lack of acceptance manifests itself. If you whine, then you are whiny. If it affects your self esteem and you let this show in ways that "punish" your wife, then you are being insecure. 

If it affects your ability to maintain a healthy intimacy with your spouse, and you express this, and ask them to work on this with you via counseling, then you are being a grown up. 

If you got married to this person knowing that oral sex was off the table, and then later decide that it's a deal breaker to not have it, and if your spouse cannot or will not change, then find a way to admit your mistake, take responsibility, and move on.


----------



## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Depends on how your lack of acceptance manifests itself. If you whine, then you are whiny. If it affects your self esteem and you let this show in ways that "punish" your wife, then you are being insecure.
> 
> If it affects your ability to maintain a healthy intimacy with your spouse, and you express this, and ask them to work on this with you via counseling, then you are being a grown up.
> 
> If you got married to this person knowing that oral sex was off the table, and then later decide that it's a deal breaker to not have it, and if your spouse cannot or will not change, then find a way to admit your mistake, take responsibility, and move on.


Would a woman be justified divorcing her husband in my scenario in post #25?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Would a woman be justified divorcing her husband in my scenario in post #25?


I would never feel comfortable judging this for others. There is no "one size fits all" rule when it comes to reasons for divorce, and the circumstances of ever marriage are as unique as the individuals in the marriage. 

I will say that I think sex problems are rarely just about sex. For example, if oral had never been a part of our sexual repertoire, I could do without it if I had a strong intimate relationship with my husband otherwise. If I, for some reason, came to feel that that no oral equated to a negative judgement about me or about our marriage then, yes, the resentment might build, therefore damaging the intimacy and leading to a failed marriage. 

In my experience, it's hard to learn to "just accept" things we don't like and move on. I seek out therapy when I feel I need help coping with the things I know I cannot change about my husband. It helps me, and it helps us. I could put it on him to "fix" these things, but I knew what I was getting into when I said "I do," so it's on me to find a way to live with it if I want to be in a happy marriage. And I do.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

I rest my case.

I urge anyone reading this thread to read the responses that female posters gave before post #25 and to notice how the tone COMPLETELY changed after post #25. 

The only thing that changed was the gender.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

To answer your question in post #25. NO. A woman would not divorce her husband, nor would other women advice her to divorce her husband because he didn't carry his long and sordid history of cunillingus into the marriage bed. She would be advised to talk to her husband and discover if there are things she needs to change in order for him to feel more comfortable. Or she would be advised to stop giving him BJ's in reciprocity to his lack of care for her desires.

But to answer the question in the title...

A woman needs to feel both safe and challenged. Safe that no matter what, he will be there for her, love her comfort her and care for her. She needs to be challenged to take their love making to new places as their relationship goes through its inevitable ebbs and flows.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I rest my case.
> 
> I urge anyone reading this thread to read the responses that female posters gave before post #25 and to notice how the tone COMPLETELY changed after post #25.
> 
> The only thing that changed was the gender.


:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

You don't make an ounce of sense.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I rest my case.
> 
> I urge anyone reading this thread to read the responses that female posters gave before post #25 and to notice how the tone COMPLETELY changed after post #25.
> 
> The only thing that changed was the gender.


What is the case you are resting?


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

ntamph said:


> Would a woman be justified divorcing her husband in my scenario in post #25?


What you are looking for ntamph is validation in your marriage. You are looking for your wife to validate that you are desirable, lovable, and wanted. It is not about the sex acts themselves, asking for these sex acts are ways to see if the wife would give of herself as she did to her exes. What you fail to realize is that they are her "exes" for a reason. Those relationships failed for a reason, what you need to be asking is why they failed, not what she offered them that she won't offer you. You are asking the wrong question.

Men use sex for validation in their relationships, but some of you go about it the wrong way. You want to feel secure and loved but you jeopardize that by screaming for the same sex that the men who your wife left got. Now if you want to be another one of her exes fine, just don't be surprised that it happens due to your insecurity.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> To answer your question in post #25. NO. A woman would not divorce her husband, nor would other women advice her to divorce her husband because he didn't carry his long and sordid history of cunillingus into the marriage bed. She would be advised to talk to her husband and discover if there are things she needs to change in order for him to feel more comfortable. Or she would be advised to stop giving him BJ's in reciprocity to his lack of care for her desires.


EleGirl said she would divorce him.

Would it be OK for a man to stop performing certain sexual acts that he knows his wife enjoys as motivation for her to perform some acts that he wants but she refuses to do?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> EleGirl said she would divorce him.
> 
> Would it be OK for a man to stop performing certain sexual acts that he knows his wife enjoys in order for her to perform some acts that he wants but she refuses to do?


Depends on what your goal is. Want to "teach her a lesson" and give her the ol' "tit for tat?" Sure, go for it. 

Want to preserve some self respect and have your wife respect you, too? I think you know the answer here. 

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but how old are you and how long have you been married?


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Depends on what your goal is. Want to "teach her a lesson" and give her the ol' "tit for tat?" Sure, go for it.
> 
> Want to preserve some self respect and have your wife respect you, too? I think you know the answer here.
> 
> I'm not trying to be snarky here, but how old are you and how long have you been married?


Again, you give completely different answers when I change the gender. Would you ask Anon Pink how old she is and how long she has been married?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ntamph said:


> EleGirl said she would divorce him.
> 
> Would it be OK for a man to stop performing certain sexual acts that he knows his wife enjoys as motivation for her to perform some acts that he wants but she refuses to do?


Oooh now you're getting pretty tricky. I notice you have also completely neglected the part of TALKING it over and attempting to discover what the issue is and find a way to deal with it in a mutually satisfying way...

That depends on a lot of different factors. 

What if he wants a 3some with another woman and she refuses. is it okay for him to with hold all affection until she gives in? Hell no. Her husband is being an ass. 

What if he with holds all affection until she agrees to anal. Ass, plain and simple.

What if he withholds all affection until she agrees to just have PIV. Well he's shooting himself in the foot so there isn't much that can be done there...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> There are unconstructive ways to nurture your spouses sexual side...harping about acts you did with past lovers for whatever reason is probably not a great way to get what you want.


But Mom, every body else has an IPhone 5!!!!!


----------



## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> What if he wants a 3some with another woman and she refuses. is it okay for him to with hold all affection until she gives in? Hell no. Her husband is being an ass.
> 
> What if he with holds all affection until she agrees to anal. Ass, plain and simple.
> 
> What if he withholds all affection until she agrees to just have PIV. Well he's shooting himself in the foot so there isn't much that can be done there...


If a man refuses to perform oral on his wife after finding out that she performed oral on exes but not for him, is he being an ass?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ntamph said:


> If a man refuses to perform oral on his wife after finding out that she performed oral on exes but not for him, is he being an ass?


he may smell like one...which might be why she won't go down on him....


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> he may smell like one...which might be why she won't go down on him....


What a mature way to avoid a question.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Summary of responses to this thread:

Woman wants some sex act from her husband that he won't do:

Divorce him! Deny him sex! You deserve to have all of your sexual needs met! Ask him probing questions! Insult him!

Man wants some sex act from his wife that she won't do:

HOW DARE YOU? You're such an insecure loser! How dare you break up a family over sex? You're a pervert!


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Lord have mercy, Ntamph you should have discussed these things pre -marriage if they meant so much to you. Own what you want instead of asking random married women on a message board hypothetical nonsensical questions. Interrogating a spouse on what they did before they met you does not get you anywhere in the sack. 

Stating to your SO pre-marriage something like, "These are the things I want to try, would you try them with me?" Then if she says no, well there is your answer. Then you can decide whether or not to marry her based on the information given.

See how easy that was, you avoid all kinds of heartache after the fact.:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


----------



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

ntamph said:


> Summary of responses to this thread:
> 
> Woman wants some sex act from her husband that he won't do:
> 
> ...


Nobody said none of those things to you, I said that it would be beta to whine about what she gives you or not. You have the option to divorce too if it means so much to you.

In the other thread "I sexually hate my wife" I stated that the OP would be wrong to leave his wife over something she did before she met him. He was acting entitled to everything she did in a videotape with other men. He didn't know if she was under the influence of drugs or whatever, he wanted her to do those acts with him. She just had a baby and they were going through a dry spell. 

You do generalize much, I can see what your wife goes through, geez.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Again, you give completely different answers when I change the gender.


Can you point out the posts where I do this? 



ntamph said:


> Would you ask Anon Pink how old she is and how long she has been married?


No, because I already know the answer. If, however, a woman was asking the same question you are asking, I'd give her the same advice I gave you.

It's about being a good human being. Not about being a good man or a good woman. 

If you are looking to stir up gender controversy, you certainly can do it here. However, realize that you are wasting the time and freely given energy of a lot of good people. If you have a question or a problem for which you earnestly seek guidance and advice, then by all means, ask it. Otherwise, you misuse, to your discredit, the kindness of strangers.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> Why did you automatically jump to the conclusion in post #27 that he found you unappealing and that divorce would be a good option but not in post #40?


You are comparing apples and oranges. You gave two different questions and the object because you did not get the same answer to two different scenarios. 
In post #27 I responded to your post #25


ntamph said:


> Post #25 One more question: If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but * won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on*, what would you think?


 I did not “automatically jump to the conclusion that he found me unappealing”. YOU clearly stated that my husband “* won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on*”.
In post #40 I responded to your post #33


ntamph said:


> post #33 If a woman has done some things with her exes but can't do the same things with her husband, does that mean that he is not as appealing as her exes?


In post #25 you clearly stated why he did not want to do oral on me. But in #33 you are asking why the woman might not want to do oral on her husband. In #33 her reason is an unknown and you are trying to figure it out.
Don’t ask me two very different questions and expect the same answer to both.
Let me re-write your questions:
* Questions #1: * If a man or woman has done some things with their exes but can't do the same things with their spouse, does that mean that the spouse is not as appealing as their exes?
* Answer #1: * It does not automatically mean that a person is not as appealing to their spouse. Things it could mean:

1) In the past the spouse was with a partner who was abusive and forced him/her to do things that made him/her feel degraded, etc. Now s/he made sure that s/he is not in an abusive relationship and s/he will not do things that make him/her feel degraded.

2) S/he tried it and just does not like it. It does not matter who the guy/gal is, s/he just does not like it.

3) Or there is a problem in his/her relationship/marriage, probably a lack of emotional intimacy and so physical intimacy suffers.

I'm sure others could come up with more reasons.

Here are your questions reworded in a gender natural way. I would give the same into regardless of the gender of the asker.

* Questions #2: * One more question: If you somehow found out that your spouse performed oral of all of thier ex‘s, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but * won't even put their mouth anywhere near in between your legs because your spouse just doesn't see you as a mate who they can perform oral sex on*, what would you think?

* Answer #2: * I think that everyone has the right to decide that they do not like a certain sexual act. 

If their reason is that they tried it before and find it disgusting (or whatever) then there is no problem. 

If their reason is that they find their spouse, and only their spouse, too disgusting to do that with.. but today they'd gladly do it to other partner, file for divorce.

I certainly would not harp on my husband to perform oral on me no matter the reason he did not want to do it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> Would a woman be justified divorcing her husband in my scenario in post #25?





ntamph said:


> POst #25
> 
> One more question:
> 
> If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on, what would you think?


I answered that. I'm a woman. Yes I would divorce a man felt this way about me.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

I don't know why I'm the only guy on this thread tonight but I think the men of the forum will have the same perspective that I have once they read the responses.

I would NEVER ask a woman to perform a sexual act that she thought was degrading. I would never demand an act that she found painful and never wanted to do again.

I'm not married, but I do want honesty and openness in any future marriage that I might have. I started this thread because I noticed in the other thread and threads like the other thread that women suggest that married men should not expect as much as a boyfriend sexually.

I want me and my future wife to explore/advance our sexualities together. I think that a man who promises to have and hold a woman for the rest of her life, have children with her, and build a life together deserves at least as much sexually as some drunk guy in a bar that's a ONS. "Deserve" might be inappropriate but I think you guys get the point.

I've mentioned in another thread that I would much rather be married with a wife and kids than bar hopping with random women. But it seems so hard to achieve sexual satisfaction in a marriage that men start to believe that the single life is the only life where men get good sex.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> I rest my case.
> 
> I urge anyone reading this thread to read the responses that female posters gave before post #25 and to notice how the tone COMPLETELY changed after post #25.
> 
> The only thing that changed was the gender.


You are wrong. The responses from women did not change after #25. You keep asking different questions and then twisting what women say.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

ntamph said:


> I don't know why I'm the only guy on this thread tonight but I think the men of the forum will have the same perspective that I have once they read the responses.
> 
> I would NEVER ask a woman to perform a sexual act that she thought was degrading. I would never demand an act that she found painful and never wanted to do again.
> 
> ...


With your views, maybe you should stay single for awhile.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

techmom said:


> With your views, maybe you should stay single for awhile.


I was trying to find common ground and ask for guidance but thanks for the insult.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> I don't know why I'm the only guy on this thread tonight but I think the men of the forum will have the same perspective that I have once they read the responses.
> 
> I would NEVER ask a woman to perform a sexual act that she thought was degrading. I would never demand an act that she found painful and never wanted to do again.
> 
> I'm not married, but I do want honesty and openness in any future marriage that I might have. I started this thread because I noticed in the other thread and threads like the other thread that women suggest that married men should not expect as much as a boyfriend sexually.


I have never read one post her in which a woman has stated that boyfriends should expect more sexually than a husband should. Why are you making this stuff up?
Personally I think that marriage is the environment where it’s a lot safer to explore things sexual. I would think that most women agree.


ntamph said:


> I want me and my future wife to explore/advance our sexualities together. I think that a man who promises to have and hold a woman for the rest of her life, have children with her, and build a life together deserves at least as much sexually as some drunk guy in a bar that's a ONS. "Deserve" might be inappropriate but I think you guys get the point.


Yes I get the point. You are attacking women over something that you have fabricated in your mind.


ntamph said:


> I've mentioned in another thread that I would much rather be married with a wife and kids than bar hopping with random women. But it seems so hard to achieve sexual satisfaction in a marriage that men start to believe that the single life is the only life where men get good sex.


Oh please. :banghead:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

techmom said:


> With your views, maybe you should stay single for awhile.


Many of us believe marriage and or long Term relationships and a great sex life shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> I was trying to find common ground and ask for guidance but thanks for the insult.


If you were looking for common ground in this thread, it's certainly hard to tell. You spent most of it twisting everything every woman posted.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

techmom said:


> Lord have mercy, Ntamph you should have discussed these things pre -marriage if they meant so much to you. Own what you want instead of asking random married women on a message board hypothetical nonsensical questions. Interrogating a spouse on what they did before they met you does not get you anywhere in the sack.
> 
> Stating to your SO pre-marriage something like, "These are the things I want to try, would you try them with me?" Then if she says no, well there is your answer. Then you can decide whether or not to marry her based on the information given.
> 
> See how easy that was, you avoid all kinds of heartache after the fact.:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


He's not married.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If you were looking for common ground in this thread, it's certainly hard to tell. You spent most of it twisting everything every woman posted.


I mean looking for common ground since the post before that one.

This thread HAS helped me realize (since the last page) that holding a woman's sexual past against her is absolutely wrong. I was not part of her life and it's ridiculous for her to somehow travel back in time and change things based on our future meeting each other.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> To answer your question in post #25. NO. A woman would not divorce her husband, nor would other women advice her to divorce her husband because he didn't carry his long and sordid history of cunillingus into the marriage bed. She would be advised to talk to her husband and discover if there are things she needs to change in order for him to feel more comfortable. Or she would be advised to stop giving him BJ's in reciprocity to his lack of care for her desires.
> 
> But to answer the question in the title...
> 
> A woman needs to feel both safe and challenged. Safe that no matter what, he will be there for her, love her comfort her and care for her. She needs to be challenged to take their love making to new places as their relationship goes through its inevitable ebbs and flows.


In his post #25, OP clearly stated that the husband will not do oral on her because he "* won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on*".




ntamph said:


> Post #25 One more question: If you somehow found out that your husband performed oral of all of his ex girlfriends, sometimes for an hour or two at a time, but * won't even put his mouth anywhere near in between your legs because he just doesn't see you as a woman who he can perform oral sex on*, what would you think?


I take his question as being beyond the point where she does not know why he will not do oral on her. But instead it's after she talks to him and addresses it, then she finds out that it's because he is repulsed (unappealing) by her and the thought to going near her orally. 

I would not remain married to a man who was repulsed by me. I would also advise a woman who, had talked to her husband to find out what was going on and this was the response she got from him.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I'm not married, but I do want honesty and openness in any future marriage that I might have.


You would do well to practice honesty and openness in all aspects of your life, even when conversing with people you do not know. Attempting to achieve validation of a theory though convolutions and manipulations is a practice I sincerely recommend you eschew. 



ntamph said:


> I started this thread because I noticed in the other thread and threads like the other thread that women suggest that married men should not expect as much as a boyfriend sexually.


Try addressing individuals/individual posts with whom you disagree. Painting all female posters with one brush demonstrates that you have not taken the time to properly read and consider many of the threads on TAM, and that you arrive here with prejudice. A few threads are not representative--there is is a vast (and yes, sometimes subtle) diversity among the female posters here. It would be a great addition to your "marriage research" to familiarize yourself with the differing views, and accept them as views you might come across again in your personal relationships or future marriage.



ntamph said:


> I want me and my future wife to explore/advance our sexualities together. I think that a man who promises to have and hold a woman for the rest of her life, have children with her, and build a life together deserves at least as much sexually as some drunk guy in a bar that's a ONS. "Deserve" might be inappropriate but I think you guys get the point.


Then I recommend you make this issue front and center when choosing a future spouse. Further, I suggest you print out this thread in its entirely and present it to any women you propose to and ask her to read it BEFORE she gives you an answer. "Caveat emptor" works both ways.



ntamph said:


> I've mentioned in another thread that I would much rather be married with a wife and kids than bar hopping with random women. But it seems so hard to achieve sexual satisfaction in a marriage that men start to believe that the single life is the only life where men get good sex.


Marriage is hard work, with no guarantee of success for a mutually satisfying sex life, among numerous other issues that arise when you attempt to commit your life to another. If you are looking for guarantees, then I suggest you not take the gamble.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

You guys were right, I was wrong, sorry for twisting your words.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> I mean looking for common ground since the post before that one.


Look post #68. I put a lot of effort into explaining that I did not give answers that differed based on the gender of the people.
For me it’s the same for both men and women. I’d give the same advice no matter who was asking. 


ntamph said:


> This thread HAS helped me realize (since the last page) that holding a woman's sexual past against her is absolutely wrong. I was not part of her life and it's ridiculous for her to somehow travel back in time and change things based on our future meeting each other.


I agree with this to a point. The sexual past of either a man or woman does not matter.. unless it was extreme.

There are extreme’s I’d be concerned about. Was the person a prostitute (male or female). Have they had sex with hundreds of people? Acted in porn. A stripper. That’s the kind of thing that would be concerned about. These are things that usually point to a person having a very distorted attitude towards sex. I would not necessarily judge them as “bad”. But I’d be concerned whether or not they had come to terms with whatever pushed them to such risky and out of control behavior.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Neo, there is no spoon


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ntamph said:


> I mean looking for common ground since the post before that one.


We have common ground. We all agree that sex is important in marriage. 


ntamph said:


> This thread HAS helped me realize (since the last page) that holding a woman's sexual past against her is absolutely wrong. I was not part of her life and it's ridiculous for her to somehow travel back in time and change things based on our future meeting each other.


I agree with this to a point. The sexual past of either a man or woman does not matter, unless it was extreme.

There are extreme’s I’d be concerned about. Was the person a prostitute (male or female). Have they had sex with hundreds of people? Acted in porn. A stripper. That’s the kind of thing that would be concerned about. These are things that usually point to a person having a very distorted attitude towards sex. I would not necessarily judge them as “bad”. But I’d be concerned whether or not they had come to terms with whatever pushed them to such risky and out of control behavior.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Maybe I am a nutcase. But the wildest sex I've ever had has been within my marriage. Now, that's not to say I didn't have wonderful, amazingly physical sex BEFORE but there is no way it can compare to laying myself bare and vulnerable to my husband. Not worrying about how I look or sound, or what he thinks about my requests. 

The reason why IS because I could open up to him and KNOW he wouldn't judge me for my own predilections and *ahem* preferences.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

ntamph said:


> If marrying you, promising to help raise children together, being at your mercy in a divorce, and working 40, 50, 60 hour weeks to pay for a family are not enough to inspire trust in a man then I don't know what to say.


An economic Exchange?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Entitled people, bitter people, those who are constantly measuring themselves and others are unlikely to be happy no matter what they are given.

Angry people suck.

They also don't get much.



_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

*!*



EleGirl said:


> So some women on here posted that they had “plenty” of ONS in the past and then made the guy they married wait weeks or even months for sex.
> 
> It goes back to what I posted earlier. You think that because SOME, very few, women here on TAM posted that they had ONS, you extrapolate that to mean that ALL women have ONS. The fact is that ALL women do not have ONS.
> 
> ...


 I have had 1 ONS in my life, and the reason why it was only that was because the sex was horrible, well not the only reason but one of them.. 

I did make my husband wait about a month or so before I had sex with him. I would have made him wait much longer, but I couldn't stand it anymore.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

CuddleBug said:


> This is my theory. Women when single, will have wild adventurous sex and often, to try and get their man, to eventually get married maybe have kids. Once they get him, the chase is over, thus the effort doesn't have to be there, so they get comfy and let everything slide. Makes sense, yes?
> 
> It could also just be how they were raised and how they feel about their bodies, taking care of themselves, very fit, and not shy or insecure, etc.
> 
> ...


What a list! Do such dream women exit? 

A woman who really has all of the listed items is probably 1:10,000. The chances of meeting her is probably 1:100,000 and the chances that she'll be willing to give sex is probably vanishingly small. 

Unrealistic expectation don't seem to change in the face of reality or even reason. Maybe it's the media and porn that influences what men think a women aught to be.

Women have unrealistic expectations too. They are far less vocal about it but behavior tells it all. The media and porn influence what men want and romance novels, fairy tales and movies influence what women want.

Maybe the epidemic of low/no sex marriages are due to the unstated female list of unrealistic expectations. 

There is no room to get to know the depth of the real person if a pre-assembled list is used to pick a mate. 

The tendency to idealize a new romance and to see what we want to see, combines to make us chronically unhappy when faced with reality. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I have a real problem with the "should want to... Have each other's backs... Risk..." Thing.

Marriage is a committed f-buddy? 

So she wants you to take it up the... You have her back, right? And she has yours.

Now bend over, buddy and take it like a man. Promise! No STDs!

Guys, think. I mean with other parts of you. If your focus is sex, you will almost assuredly not get what you want. Heck, the whiners on this thread aren't coming across as attractive. 

Women want to have sex with men they want to have sex.with. if it isn't you, there are only two possible reasons. 

You have control over who you marry. You have control over who you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Ntamth 
If you've never been married and you are concerned about sex in LTR, you should not use TAM to make any conclusions. 

Do you want assurance that sex in a LTR will compare favorably with the sex you are having as a single man? That depends on what your sex life is like when you are single. 

Are you having sex whenever and however you like with a variety of women at your disposal? Then the answer is obvious. 

You seem to be operating under the assumption that when you make a commitment you are giving up your fun single sex life. I wonder that you would even consider marriage if your single life is free and happy. 

That is fine if you make sure that your potential mate knows the formula of your balance sheet and how expect to be compensated accordingly. 

I don't think you will have a problem if you are open and honest before selecting a mate. Make sure she shares your vision and is willing to do all the things that are important to you. 

Make sure she understand the consequences of not keeping you satisfied and well compensated throughout the relationship. 

You have viable options in your life. You can stay single and continue to enjoy your life. You can also change the formula you are using to value what you bring to the table and what your potential mate brings. 

Otherwise, you are probably doomed to join the ranks of the married men who are chronically unhappy because they have not gotten their due.


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