# Just discovered possible EA after Wife said she wants to separate...



## bmichael

My wife and I have been married for 16 years and have 6 beauitful children. Since the end of November, my wife had been acting very differently. Ever time I tried to ask her what was going on, it led to an argument.

I have had an anger problem most of my life where when things upset me, I yell a lot. I always calm back down and apologize and it seems like we've always moved forward from there.

I tried to ask my wife about her behavior and it resulted in another argument and she stated for the first time that she wanted a divorce. I asked her why and she said that she can't take my anger and negativity anymore and has had enough. She said none of our arguments have ever been resolved throughout our entire marriage and that she was no longer in love with me and simply viewed us as friends.

I spent a few days still trying to talk to her and everytime she rejected me and stated the same things. She insists there isn't anyone else even though all the signs are there. However, I was able to "snoop" and discovered that since the end of the November, when she began to act strangely, she has been conversing with a doctor she use to work for.

She's told him our entire marriage history, including personal things that were only between the two of us, as well as personal information about herself. She also stated that she really likes him a lot and she's been texting and emailing him every night, even when myself and my children have been in the same room. I told her that I knew there was someone else in the picture without exposing exact details and she still denied there was anyone else.

Ever after all of this, I still don't want a divorce and would prefer to work things out. I guess I'm unsure of how to proceed? Should I tell her the exact details I know and see how she responds? 180? She wants a separation and plans to move out, but hasn't done anything yet. She keeps saying she's waiting to talk to a lawyer. I've already consulted one as well as attended IC. We have MC set up but she told me she only agreed because she thought it would help me.


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## EleGirl

First off you have to stop the angry outbursts NOW... you have to get control of your anger. If you are not going to do that then the best thing for you to do is to just move out of your family home and let your wife find a life with someone who does have such out bursts. Your wife probably sees these out bursts as emotional abuse.. they most likely are.

When you feel like blowing up just leave the house and go for a long walk or run until you have calmed down. Never discuss anything with anyone when you are angry.

I can tell you from experience that women generally find it very scary when their husbands have angry outbursts. Men are bigger and stronger and can hurt us easily. So it's scary. You did not say if you bang on things or throw things.. but if you do the fear factor is much higher.

The following applies only if you going to get control of the outbursts... 

Get the books Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. Read it and do what it says to do.

You need to start wth Plan A (see my signature block). Plan B (or the 180) is used only after you have done Plan A for a while.. 4-8 weeks. With your angry outburst history you might need to do plan A longer. The purpose of Plan A is to change yourself to be a better person and to show your spouse that you are changing. 

If you get the book… do not let your wife see that you are reading it. She will look it up, read about it and think that you are only manipulating her. So read it when she is not around. And keep it where she cannot find it.


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## bmichael

Thanks for the advice. I'll look up the Plan A and B immediately.

I'm currently in counseling and have spoken to my pastor concerning my anger issues. Since my wife has told me she wanted a divorce, it hasn't been hard to control since my other emotions (depression, sadness, etc.) have taken over.

My wife is planning on moving out of our home and I'll be there to raise the kids. I've been raising them practically myself for the past five years while she's attended college, which hasn't been easy with six young ones at the house.


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## ing

Although this is probably he worst time in you life and you have every right to be angry, this is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

You are the primary care giver and this is good in this case. Your primary aim is to protect yourself and your children.

This is not a suspected EA. This is a EA. Possible PA.

Is this Doctor she is talking to married? 

Do not expose your sources of information and continue to snoop.
Password protect your computer. Do not tell your wife about this site. it is your safe place.


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## EleGirl

bmichael said:


> Thanks for the advice. I'll look up the Plan A and B immediately.
> 
> I'm currently in counseling and have spoken to my pastor concerning my anger issues. Since my wife has told me she wanted a divorce, it hasn't been hard to control since my other emotions (depression, sadness, etc.) have taken over.
> 
> My wife is planning on moving out of our home and I'll be there to raise the kids. I've been raising them practically myself for the past five years while she's attended college, which hasn't been easy with six young ones at the house.


Are you saying that your children are staying in the family home with you? Do not allow her to move them out of the home. Since you do not have a court ordered custody agreement might very well have the right to move them.

You will need to talk to an attorney to find out what you need to do to keep her from moving them in with her if she should decide to do this. YOu can probably get an emergency court order for them to be returned in this happens.


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## bmichael

The doctor isn't married. I'm not even sure if he's still local since some of the emails I've seen indicate that he's either moving or has moved out of the area.

It seems with plan A I should confront her with the facts I know about the EA? And get her to do a complete disconnect from the OM? This will be difficult and I know she has another friend of hers that is only encouraging her behavior. I'm also not sure how this will work out since she already wants the separation. Maybe I haven't read enough about plan A and B to fully understand how to implement them yet.

My goal is to reconcile but it seems everytime I bring up anything about our marriage it only pushes her away. Which now it's obviously because of the EA.


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## bmichael

EleGirl said:


> Are you saying that your children are staying in the family home with you? Do not allow her to move them out of the home. Since you do not have a court ordered custody agreement might very well have the right to move them.
> 
> You will need to talk to an attorney to find out what you need to do to keep her from moving them in with her if she should decide to do this. YOu can probably get an emergency court order for them to be returned in this happens.


As of right now, we are all still living together. Her plan is to move in with a friend, and I will continue to be at the house with our children.


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## warlock07

Expose(to her family), you have nothing to lose. Don't reveal your methods though. Start plan B. Give her equal responsibility for the kids. The more you beg and plead the more she will look down on you.


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## bmichael

Honestly, the only fear I have about exposing the EA is revealing the methods by which I discovered it. If I tell her what I know, she'll most likelly know how I found out.

If I expose to her family, should I tell her that's what I'm going to do or just do it? This is all very scary for me. I don't want to make the wrong move. I want to reconcile with my wife but there's young children to think about as well.


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## EleGirl

bmichael said:


> Honestly, the only fear I have about exposing the EA is revealing the methods by which I discovered it. If I tell her what I know, she'll most likelly know how I found out.
> 
> If I expose to her family, should I tell her that's what I'm going to do or just do it? This is all very scary for me. I don't want to make the wrong move. I want to reconcile with my wife but there's young children to think about as well.


Tell her family about her EA. Tell them that you love your wife, want to save your marriage. You can tell them that you know that you have contributed to the problems in your marriage. Also tell them that you would hope that they will help you keep your family together for the sake of their grand children. You can tell them that you are seeking help from your pastor and a counselor.


Do not tell them about things like Plan A, Plan B, 180, this web site, the "Surviving an Affair" book or anything else along those lines.


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## ing

bmichael said:


> As of right now, we are all still living together. Her plan is to move in with a friend, and I will continue to be at the house with our children.


Implement the 180. Start letting her go. You have No choice in this since she does not want to work on the marriage.

She has not thought about the meaning and ramifications of this at all.

Split your money. Cancel any joint credit cards.


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## EleGirl

bmichael said:


> The doctor isn't married. I'm not even sure if he's still local since some of the emails I've seen indicate that he's either moving or has moved out of the area.


Keep an eye out for info on him. If he’s moving out of the area your wife might move with him. Or this affair will end or become minimal. You might even want to call or write him to tell him that you know of the affair and are asking him to stop the affair so that you can repair your marriage.
The idea of exposing the affair and telling her what you know is to put pressure on the affair. Affairs do not do well in the light of day. The more they have to face the real world, the more pressure on the affair. Affairs are fantasy. So the more pressure and responsibility put on the affair, the shorter lived it will be.
Your wife is the mother of 6 children. It is highly unlikely that this doctor will want to take on her 6 children. So I doubt that the affair will last all that long. 


bmichael said:


> It seems with plan A I should confront her with the facts I know about the EA? And get her to do a complete disconnect from the OM? This will be difficult and I know she has another friend of hers that is only encouraging her behavior. I'm also not sure how this will work out since she already wants the separation. Maybe I haven't read enough about plan A and B to fully understand how to implement them yet.


Has she said when she is moving? Start doing the Plan A now. Remember that you cannot be play acting. It has to be real changes in yourself or she will know. 
It would make sense for you to confront her in the next day or two. Tell her that you know that she is involved with the doc. Reveal only enough to let her know that you know what’s going on. This way you do not reveal how you got the info. You do not want her to move out and want to work on your marriage with her. But in order for that you happen you would need her to end all contact with the doc. 



bmichael said:


> My goal is to reconcile but it seems everytime I bring up anything about our marriage it only pushes her away. Which now it's obviously because of the EA.


Do not bring up anything about your marriage now… well except to reveal that you know about the affair and want her to stay to rebuild your marriage. Beyond that just be the best person you can be.


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## bmichael

I appreciate all the advice EleGirl. I'm not sure how her family would react if I were to expose the EA. I know her mother very well, and love her as if she were my own. She has told me that regardless of what happens, I will always be her son-in-law and she would like to see us work things out.

I know my wife will be furious. I think I'm going to tell her today that I know all about the EA and that I want to rebuild the marriage. We already have a counseling session scheduled for 1/16. 

Should I or shouldn't I tell my wife that I'm going to tell her family and the OM?


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## Initfortheduration

No, absolutely no warning. You don't want her to paint you as a nut to the in laws. If you expose, do it with no warning.


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## bmichael

Okay, so I should expose to my wife what I know. Then without telling her, expose to her family and contact the OM and ask him to not contact her while I try to rebuild the marriage?


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## F-102

Go to her family first, with NO WARNING to the W. If you go to her first: she will spin yarns to her family-and possibly yours as well-about how paranoid, controlling and jealous you are. Basically, she will deny and lie to make you out to be the crazy a**hole, and she will be the helpless victim.

And never, NEVER reveal your sources-she will just go underground.


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## bmichael

F-102 said:


> Go to her family first, with NO WARNING to the W. If you go to her first: she will spin yarns to her family-and possibly yours as well-about how paranoid, controlling and jealous you are. Basically, she will deny and lie to make you out to be the crazy a**hole, and she will be the helpless victim.
> 
> And never, NEVER reveal your sources-she will just go underground.


Ok. Wow. That's going to be tough but I see where you're coming from. 

I just don't want this to backfire on me and I want to reconcile with my wife so bad.


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## warlock07

Well, you need not bad mouth her to her parents. You can tell them that she was dishonest to you and them and was actually seeing other men behind your back. You are telling them first so that she won't portray you in bad light if things get bad down the road.


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## bmichael

The only remaining problem I guess I see with this plan is the fact that I already told the wife I knew there was someone else without going into detail. She may have already told her mom that I was accusing her of this.

Of course, I have the details to back up the information which proves I'm not lying either.


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## warlock07

Doesn't matter. You do what you need to do. You are being too much of a wimp IMO


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## bmichael

warlock07 said:


> Doesn't matter. You do what you need to do. You are being too much of a wimp IMO


You're right. Thanks, man.


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## vickyyy

Stop behaving like a doormat and afraid of what she will do if you exposed her affair.you are doing the right thing and it is your duty to protect your marriage.

you really need to MAN up.
ask her to stop the affair,if she did not then ask her to move out and separate your finances.Ask her to pay half of the kids expenses.


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## Chaparral

vickyyy said:


> Stop behaving like a doormat and afraid of what she will do if you exposed her affair.you are doing the right thing and it is your duty to protect your marriage.
> 
> you really need to MAN up.
> ask her to stop the affair,if she did not then ask her to move out and separate your finances.Ask her to pay half of the kids expenses.


Do be prepared for a major outburst from her after you out her affair. However ' they all do this and most of the stuff she says will just be bull sh!t. Good luck. You can talk to her when she settles down.


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## Complexity

I'd be careful about exposing the affair to others. That can cause alot of anger and resentment from your wife towards you.


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## calif_hope

Expose, tell 100%, no I think or I believe.....it's your truth and your truth to share if you want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calif_hope

Bmichael......look you make it clear if she leaves the house, it is no longer her home, turns in keys (change the locks) need to ask permission or be invited in to ge inside. No coming and going at her will.....make it clear that she is not leaving you, the house but the family also. She has to pay her share of child support, daycare, sitters, medical, mortgage, utilities and so on.

If your making this easy on her to stay on her good side........,knock it off.

You need to be Alpha, and being Alpha does not mean being angry, bully, or acting like a bull.

Being Alpha is being a man, a gentleman warrior. Stop being a doormat, tell her your going to see an attorney about a legal depression and divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Read the newbie thread it tells you all about exposure and more:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Complexity said:


> I'd be careful about exposing the affair to others. That can cause alot of anger and resentment from your wife towards you.



110% wrong. Of course she going to be angry. If everyone knew you were an adulterer and was hasseling you about it, wouldn't you be mad. Thats the whole point of exposure, to kill the fantasy. No more walking around and hidng her adultery.


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## Shaggy

Complexity said:


> I'd be careful about exposing the affair to others. That can cause alot of anger and resentment from your wife towards you.


That is the fear that keeps so many BS in line and helping preserve the affair.

Affairs thrive in the dark. Exposure does make the cheater angry, but thats because their affair is threatened they are reacting out of fear of loosing it.

The only one who benefit from non exposure is the WS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

But guys, suppose you reconcile, your cheating spouse essentially becomes an outcast for life amongst your family and friends.


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## Shaggy

Complexity said:


> But guys, suppose you reconcile, your cheating spouse essentially becomes an outcast for life amongst your family and friends.


Yes and no. Owning up to the cheating and renouncing the awful choice to cheat, helps deal with that as well as actually being therapeutic to the WS by giving them something concrete yet hard to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

So go ahead and sit back and let your wayward rewrite history and make you out to be the bad guy and now you are the outcast! Go ahead and keep quite and let the EA turn to a PA and wait another 1/2 a year or longer for your WW to come out of the fog, only to have more resentment and disrepect b/c she thinks in her fantasy that you always knew and didn't do anything to show you you cared.

She's already gone so take the steps to make this affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible....making it very clear you will not share your wife and as a man, are confident enough to move on with out her if she continues.

More often then not showing this confidence and the self respect that tells everyone that you diserve better is the only chance in bringing her out of her fog. The sooner she faces the consequences the sooner *YOU* can move on with or with out her.

It will always be her choice to stay or go, but it is your choice to no longer tolorate it by asking others for there support for the marriage and exposing it to a small group of family and friends and OM.

By doing this she will have no respect for you and will resent you....wait she already does. So now that you have lost your W what more to you have to lose by protecting your self in exposing the affair?

I get you want to R, but your W doesn't and until OM is completely out of the picture your W won't even think about it. So go ahead and make this affair as uncomfortable and as inconvienent as possible and pour on the reality that you respect your self enough to open this can of worms that *SHE* has created. 

Or you can wait and see as you quitely go through life as an unhappy man that believes he diserve this kind of treatment from another human being.


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## aug

Unless I missed it, let me ask if you have kids involved here?


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## bmichael

aug said:


> Unless I missed it, let me ask if you have kids involved here?


Yes, we have six children. Our youngest is only six.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committedwife

bmichael said:


> The doctor isn't married. I'm not even sure if he's still local since some of the emails I've seen indicate that he's either moving or has moved out of the area.
> 
> It seems with plan A I should confront her with the facts I know about the EA? And get her to do a complete disconnect from the OM? This will be difficult and I know she has another friend of hers that is only encouraging her behavior. I'm also not sure how this will work out since she already wants the separation. Maybe I haven't read enough about plan A and B to fully understand how to implement them yet.
> 
> My goal is to reconcile but it seems everytime I bring up anything about our marriage it only pushes her away. Which now it's obviously because of the EA.


I don't think you should say anything to her until you're sure you know what you've got. Right now you're not even sure if the affair is with the doctor. I think you should hire a PI to follow her and find out what she's up to. 

Who does she say she's moving in with? It may be OM. 

I think you should order the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. You can get it on Amazon.com. It has really good information in it for how to get her to end the affair. Don't let her see it.


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## committedwife

bmichael said:


> Okay, so I should expose to my wife what I know. Then without telling her, expose to her family and contact the OM and ask him to not contact her while I try to rebuild the marriage?


I wouldn't ASK OM anything. I would TELL him that he can expect a little visit from you if he contacts your wife again. Let him know that you're not afraid to protect your wife and marriage from filth like him. 

You need to find out for sure if he's married or has a girlfriend. It doesn't matter if your WW told you he's not married. She is probably lying to you. You need to expose the affair to his wife or girlfriend, as well.


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## committedwife

Complexity said:


> I'd be careful about exposing the affair to others. That can cause alot of anger and resentment from your wife towards you.


Expose the affair to anyone who can put pressure on her to end the affair. Tell anyone she looks up to and respects. Their disapproval will go a long way toward breaking up the affair. 

If you do a wimpy exposure and she doesn't get angry, you've got a problem. 

I think you should ask your MIL to tell your WW that her OM will never be accepted into their family. I think it would be even better if your MIL called OM and told him that herself. Would she do that? I know that I would, if my daughter was seeing a guy who was slimey enough to break up a marriage and date a married woman.


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## committedwife

bmichael said:


> Yes, we have six children. Our youngest is only six.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You should tell her that if she doesn't stop the affair and you end up divorcing, you will not be her friend. And you will file for divorce, listing adultery as the cause. Tell her you will have OM subpoenaed to appear in court to testify about his role in the destruction of your marriage. 

Tell her she will not be free to see her children whenever she wants, that you'll file for full custody. And that you'll arrange it so that they are never to be around OM.

In other words, paint a very ugly picture of how things will turn out if she doesn't break it off with OM.


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## F-102

If you expose her, she will get angry, and she may or may not eventually come out of the fog and R with you. But if you don't expose her, she WON'T come out of the fog (no consequences to her affair), and you will lose her anyway.

You have two chances to lose your M and one to save it.


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## bmichael

committedwife said:


> I don't think you should say anything to her until you're sure you know what you've got. Right now you're not even sure if the affair is with the doctor. I think you should hire a PI to follow her and find out what she's up to.
> 
> Who does she say she's moving in with? It may be OM.
> 
> I think you should order the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. You can get it on Amazon.com. It has really good information in it for how to get her to end the affair. Don't let her see it.


Yes, I have seen proof of an EA with this doctor.

She says she's moving in with a former coworker.


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## ShootMePlz!

So you have the children at the house and take care of them, paying all the bills etc while she can live the single life at her friends place???


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## bmichael

ShootMePlz! said:


> So you have the children at the house and take care of them, paying all the bills etc while she can live the single life at her friends place???


That's obviously her plan, not mine.


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## Chaparral

The longer you wait the worse it gets. Remember to let people know whats going on but not how you know it.

Pull the plug on this affair. The reason she is moving out is so the EA can go PA with out having to bother with you and the kids.

If she does move out be sure and change the locks while she is leaving and get a junkyard lawyer. I doubt she knows what her financial responsibilities are going to be. Of course the Dr. may have plenty of money.

I agree with committedwife about confronting Dr. Cheat. Let him know you are blaming him since this started when he started chating with her. Mention a subpoena if you have to . Doubt he will welcome the drama, he's aftersomething else. Find out why he's moving. Find his wife,girlfriend, ex. and find out his story.


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## EleGirl

Initfortheduration said:


> No, absolutely no warning. You don't want her to paint you as a nut to the in laws. If you expose, do it with no warning.


:iagree:


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## calif_hope

Bmichael........
You will fill great empowerment - simple step
1. Talk to OM, tell him to leave wife alone
2. Expose - to family and friends 
3. If she leaves house, it's not her hone anymore and will not be allowed in without your permission. That depression will result in proceeding with divorce
4. Offer reconciliation - NC with OM and MC

You can't continue letter be in charge and decide what's best..,..,.


You came her for advice, take it. If you came you TAM to post your sob story, to have us all cry with you as your life and marriage crumbles because you won't man up, I am afraid your at the wrong place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmichael

Told the OM to back off while I repair the marriage.

Exposed the EA to her mother and close friends.

Exposed the EA to my wife. She insisted that they are just friends and that there's nothing going on, even when I saw the evidence myself that there is! She balked at the NC with the OM because she said there's nothing going on.

She said there was nothing I could say or do to make her change her mind about the separation. Her feelings for me have changed and she was preparing to speak to a lawyer this week.

We're scheduled for a counseling session next Monday but I'm not sure if she's going to attend or not.

Also, she unfriended me on FB. I'm sure it's because she's afraid that I'll go public on there.

We are still sharing our home until she decides to leave, if she actually goes through with it. 

Would it be wrong, and what could be the reprocussions if I disable her iTouch, the device she uses to communicate with the OM, from our home network? Is that a good idea? Desperate to make sure she doesn't talk to him because frankly, everytime I see her on it, I'm assuming that's who she's talking to and I've had enough.


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## warlock07

How did the OM react? You should get some of the iphone snooping tools


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## ArmyofJuan

Yea your wife is either lying or in complete denial of what she is doing as far as the A (some don’t consider it cheating unless there’s sex).

She is way too deep in the fog for a R to be a passing thought. You did all you can so now you have to move forward with the separation and don’t try to stop her or talk her out of it. You have to embrace it as if it’s what you want as well. They more you want to separate from her, the more likely she will have second thoughts.

There is a chance for an R if that’s what you want BUT it won’t be until after a few months of NC (you are going to have to ignore her as much as possible). Once they have been away for a while they start to question themselves and end up come snooping around. When they do, they are hoping you haven’t change so they will feel like they made the right decision to leave. If they find you no longer care about them and are even thriving without them then they panic realizing they screwed up and try to win you back.

In this situation (which mimics what a long time ex-gf did to me), she will more than likely start a “real” relationship with the OM the minute she is out the door. There is NOTHING you can do to stop it so don’t even try. Odds are it will not work out and within 6 months if they are not already broken up she will come looking for you and wanting to break with the OM. The timing could be a little off but I have experienced this myself and I’ve read many a story that ended up the same way. Once they get what they want they end up not wanting anymore.


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## vickyyy

Even your wife does leaves you to stay at her friends house, ask her to share children expenses.

Dont give her a free exit.


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## bmichael

ArmyofJuan said:


> Yea your wife is either lying or in complete denial of what she is doing as far as the A (some don’t consider it cheating unless there’s sex).
> 
> She is way too deep in the fog for a R to be a passing thought. You did all you can so now you have to move forward with the separation and don’t try to stop her or talk her out of it. You have to embrace it as if it’s what you want as well. They more you want to separate from her, the more likely she will have second thoughts.
> 
> There is a chance for an R if that’s what you want BUT it won’t be until after a few months of NC (you are going to have to ignore her as much as possible). Once they have been away for a while they start to question themselves and end up come snooping around. When they do, they are hoping you haven’t change so they will feel like they made the right decision to leave. If they find you no longer care about them and are even thriving without them then they panic realizing they screwed up and try to win you back.
> 
> In this situation (which mimics what a long time ex-gf did to me), she will more than likely start a “real” relationship with the OM the minute she is out the door. There is NOTHING you can do to stop it so don’t even try. Odds are it will not work out and within 6 months if they are not already broken up she will come looking for you and wanting to break with the OM. The timing could be a little off but I have experienced this myself and I’ve read many a story that ended up the same way. Once they get what they want they end up not wanting anymore.


Yeah, it's obvious that no matter what I say or do, she's just under a fog. My older kids know that she plans to leave and they are hurting very badly.

I'm going to 180 and do what I can to improve myself and get over this mess.


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## Initfortheduration

If your wife moves out, she is abandoning her children. That is what the court will see.


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## Shaggy

Ok, so you need to talk to a lawyer ASAP yourself.

You also need to consider if MC will help at all. IF she's deep in the affair fog, it likely won't help. MC isn't about convincing her to stop the affair - it's about the two of you learning to become a better married couple.

With her still in the affair - her energies are 100% going into building and growing that relationship.

The fact she dumped you FB says she's looking for ways to publically cut you out of her life and hide what she is doing from you.

At this point you should get the lawyer and file for D to show her you are willing to let her go if she can't end the affair.


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## warlock07

What was the OM's reaction? How he reacted can give you some insight into their affair.


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## Dadof3

Also - check with your lawyer (or the one you get) about alienation of affection statutes. With a Dr boyfriend - the plunder could be VAST!


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## bmichael

Wife slammed me yesterday. Yelled and was ticked. She just found out that I told her close friends about her EA, which she still has the nerve to deny. They have all said it's none of their business and are staying out of it. I kept cool, didn't let it affect me since I'm starting to 180.

There's NC with the OM anymore. Which she seems pretty upset about still.

My wife also thinks I hacked into her itouch to find the info and she's "secretly" purchaed a new cellphone. Not that much of a secret since I know about it. Now I'm wondering if I should confront her about this.

She refused NC to the friend of hers that is toxic and is convincing her to leave us. Got mad and said I was trying to control who her friends are.

I'm still wanting a R but she's acting like a crazy person right now.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Carry on with the 180 , you cannot control what she does you can control how you react , or don't as the 180 guides you .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sounds like someone is guiding her on the new phone, if it happens to be close at hand make it disappear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DailyGrind

How did you discover the secret phone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

DailyGrind said:


> How did you discover the secret phone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She withdrew $200 from our account, which she claimed was for a lawyer consultation, and her profile on FB states that she's using the Android app. She doesn't have an android phone.

My daughter also saw the phone last night. Just found that out this morning.


----------



## lordmayhem

Yeah, she denies anything going on with OM, yet she gets the secret affair phone. 

What smart phones cost around $200 right now? One of those Motrola Droid RAZRs?


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> Yeah, she denies anything going on with OM, yet she gets the secret affair phone.
> 
> What smart phones cost around $200 right now? One of those Motrola Droid RAZRs?


My wife is in a deep, deep fog. Trying to get her out before this EA becomes PA if it hasn't already.

Need her toxic friend gone and proof that the OM is gone. At this point, I'm not even thinking about a R


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> My wife is in a deep, deep fog. Trying to get her out before this EA becomes PA if it hasn't already.
> 
> Need her toxic friend gone and proof that the OM is gone. At this point, I'm not even thinking about a R


Then tell her to GTFO of the house. Pack her bags and drop her off at OMs or TFs house.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> Then tell her to GTFO of the house. Pack her bags and drop her off at OMs or TFs house.


I can't make her leave when her name's on the deed and mortgage.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> I can't make her leave when her name's on the deed and mortgage.


I know you cant really make her leave, but does SHE know that? Hell, most betrayed husbands don't know that. They just accept at face value that their WWs can kick them out and they just leave when their WW tells them to get out. We here have to tell them that the WW can't kick them out. It's a bluff.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> I know you cant really make her leave, but does SHE know that? Hell, most betrayed husbands don't know that. They just accept at face value that their WWs can kick them out and they just leave when their WW tells them to get out. We here have to tell them that the WW can't kick them out. It's a bluff.


Yes, she knows that. My wife is very intelligent, except when it's about this EA stuff that's going on.


----------



## Bodhitree

bmichael said:


> My wife and I have been married for 16 years and have 6 beauitful children. Since the end of November, my wife had been acting very differently. Ever time I tried to ask her what was going on, it led to an argument.
> 
> I have had an anger problem most of my life where when things upset me, I yell a lot. I always calm back down and apologize and it seems like we've always moved forward from there.
> 
> I tried to ask my wife about her behavior and it resulted in another argument and she stated for the first time that she wanted a divorce. I asked her why and she said that she can't take my anger and negativity anymore and has had enough. She said none of our arguments have ever been resolved throughout our entire marriage and that she was no longer in love with me and simply viewed us as friends.
> 
> I spent a few days still trying to talk to her and everytime she rejected me and stated the same things. She insists there isn't anyone else even though all the signs are there. However, I was able to "snoop" and discovered that since the end of the November, when she began to act strangely, she has been conversing with a doctor she use to work for.
> 
> She's told him our entire marriage history, including personal things that were only between the two of us, as well as personal information about herself. She also stated that she really likes him a lot and she's been texting and emailing him every night, even when myself and my children have been in the same room. I told her that I knew there was someone else in the picture without exposing exact details and she still denied there was anyone else.
> 
> Ever after all of this, I still don't want a divorce and would prefer to work things out. I guess I'm unsure of how to proceed? Should I tell her the exact details I know and see how she responds? 180? She wants a separation and plans to move out, but hasn't done anything yet. She keeps saying she's waiting to talk to a lawyer. I've already consulted one as well as attended IC. We have MC set up but she told me she only agreed because she thought it would help me.


Hi BMichael:

I had very similar circumstance in October. My spouse said she had reached the conclusion that after 22 years and rearing our children that we were no longer good for each other. She became involved with a coworker (male) that I believe was offering her "advice" on the situation -he'd been through three divorces. Things like this defy rational explanation. I have felt extreme sadness and depression because of her actions. HOWEVER- the key point is that you need to take a look at your anger. It is amazing how anger destroys. Maybe the hardest part of an EA or even PA is that while we are the wronged party, we still need to look at ourselves. This is not to say the the EA is our fault- IT ISN'T!! Dealing with your anger will only help you. Whether you do separate with your wife or not, it will only make you a better person. I recently realized that letting go was the key. I have to let her go to take her course of life and that forgiveness is important. These are difficult tasks given the emotions involved in an EA. I would also suggest MC. Most likely your wife still loves you. She will need to make changes as well if you are to stay together. I know this is difficult, because truth is, things may not work out. Letting go is the key, but you may not be at that point for a while. May I suggest the book "Anger" by Thich Nat Hanh. It is a buddhist approach to "cooling the flames" of anger that has helped me immensely during this time. God bless.


----------



## bmichael

Bodhitree said:


> Hi BMichael:
> 
> I had very similar circumstance in October. My spouse said she had reached the conclusion that after 22 years and rearing our children that we were no longer good for each other. She became involved with a coworker (male) that I believe was offering her "advice" on the situation -he'd been through three divorces. Things like this defy rational explanation. I have felt extreme sadness and depression because of her actions. HOWEVER- the key point is that you need to take a look at your anger. It is amazing how anger destroys. Maybe the hardest part of an EA or even PA is that while we are the wronged party, we still need to look at ourselves. This is not to say the the EA is our fault- IT ISN'T!! Dealing with your anger will only help you. Whether you do separate with your wife or not, it will only make you a better person. I recently realized that letting go was the key. I have to let her go to take her course of life and that forgiveness is important. These are difficult tasks given the emotions involved in an EA. I would also suggest MC. Most likely your wife still loves you. She will need to make changes as well if you are to stay together. I know this is difficult, because truth is, things may not work out. Letting go is the key, but you may not be at that point for a while. May I suggest the book "Anger" by Thich Nat Hanh. It is a buddhist approach to "cooling the flames" of anger that has helped me immensely during this time. God bless.


Thanks for the book suggestions.

My wife has now resorted to hurdling insults my way on FB. That's fine with me since she has me blocked, however, my kids can see everything her and her idiot friends are posting.  I told them not to stand for it if it bothers them.

Also, I plan to tell my kids about my wife's EA. To do this, I was verifying my source of information and I came across a message I hadn't seen before. The OM was planning a trip to Vegas with my wife!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe she has the nerve to deny all of this to me, her family and her friends!!!!


----------



## warlock07

Well, the only question remaining now is whether it is/was a PA


----------



## bmichael

warlock07 said:


> Well, the only question remaining now is whether it is/was a PA


From all the messages I've seen, it doesn't look like it went to that level. I'm so mad right now. I wish I could toss her out of the house on her butt!!!


----------



## warlock07

Have you confronted her?


----------



## bmichael

warlock07 said:


> Have you confronted her?


I confronted her over the EA before I knew about the Vegas thing. She denied the EA even though I have proof. She also screamed at me for telling her family and friends.

I'm drafting up a separation agreement and I'm going to tell her I want her out of the house immediately. In NC you have to be separated for a year before you can file for divorce.


----------



## hookares

bmichael said:


> From all the messages I've seen, it doesn't look like it went to that level. I'm so mad right now. I wish I could toss her out of the house on her butt!!!


If they were planning a trip to "notellville" it's likely that you really haven't delved into their actions far enough to tell
what level the illicit affair has gone.
One way to tell is if you two have been having any physical contact since your wife has indicated she no longer wishes to be with you. If not, it's likely she's getting it elsewhere. Nobody bothers to start a new relationship based on no sexual contact.
I hope you get whatever you want out of what is left of your marriage, but from what you have revealed, it would appear that you will be starting over and it will be without her.


----------



## bmichael

hookares said:


> If they were planning a trip to "notellville" it's likely that you really haven't delved into their actions far enough to tell
> what level the illicit affair has gone.
> One way to tell is if you two have been having any physical contact since your wife has indicated she no longer wishes to be with you. If not, it's likely she's getting it elsewhere. Nobody bothers to start a new relationship based on no sexual contact.
> I hope you get whatever you want out of what is left of your marriage, but from what you have revealed, it would appear that you will be starting over and it will be without her.


We've had some physical contact. We've hugged a few times, held hands after she told me she wanted a separation but not since I found out about the EA. No sex. Not like I was getting it that often anyway. This whole situation has killed my sex drive anyway. 

She's also been sleeping on the couch for almost a month now.

I'm really shocked because she's always claimed that she would never cheat since her father cheated on her mother when she was little and it altered the way she viewed him for the rest of her life.

I can't barely stand the sight of her now. She's not even close to being the person I married.


----------



## hookares

The children make things a whole lot harder for you than would be the case had you had none with her or they were all of adult age. All I can tell you is that there really isn't any way for one member of a marriage to salvage it if the other isn't interested. I sense that you would like this to not be true, but if she fails to come around, you will be moving on, alone just as others have had to do.
I liken my split with my ex to be similar to a person quitting smoking at "other people's" insistence. You may not really want to do it, but eventually you no longer miss them once you accomplish it.
Good Luck


----------



## bmichael

Yeah, I'm ready to move on without her. It'll be a lot easier whenever she finally decides to actually leave the house. I'll have primary custody of the kids and I think the situation will be fine once she actually goes.


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## warlock07

Like father, like daughter huh?


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## bmichael

warlock07 said:


> Like father, like daughter huh?


Looks that way.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Like father, like daughter huh?


I would pound this line through her head over and over and over and over. I would also tell her how her kids are going to look at her just like she looks at her father.

When she denies it from now on I would say " I've got two words for you.......... Las Vegas."


----------



## warlock07

Yeah, rub that in her face as much as possible


----------



## Chaparral

Another good line ........Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


----------



## Shaggy

Expose the Vegas details to the same people you exposed the first time.

Was it more than him "hey let's meet up in vegas"? Was it them making real plans, and saying how excited they'd be?


----------



## bmichael

Shaggy said:


> Expose the Vegas details to the same people you exposed the first time.
> 
> Was it more than him "hey let's meet up in vegas"? Was it them making real plans, and saying how excited they'd be?


From what I saw, he offered and she considered but ultimately turned it down. Of course, her toxic friend knew all about it and was encouraging her to go!


----------



## TooNiceDave

bmichael said:


> From what I saw, he offered and she considered but ultimately turned it down. Of course, her toxic friend knew all about it and was encouraging her to go!




Toxic friends will do that, I have been through the same thing. 
In my situation, her friend (a total s!ut) started leading my wife which is all my wife needed. But at the same time, her s!ut friend would NEVER leave a decent guy if she could find one but she can't find a decent guy at 45. How ironic--don't you think. 

Best of luck to you man.


----------



## Shaggy

Then you really have the smoking gun - just a friend and her planning on going to vegas - alone and supported by toxic friend.

because married women go to vegas all the time with guys who are just friends.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Thanks for the book suggestions.
> 
> My wife has now resorted to hurdling insults my way on FB. That's fine with me since she has me blocked, however, my kids can see everything her and her idiot friends are posting.  I told them not to stand for it if it bothers them.
> 
> Also, I plan to tell my kids about my wife's EA. To do this, I was verifying my source of information and I came across a message I hadn't seen before. *The OM was planning a trip to Vegas with my wife!!!!!!!!!!! *I can't believe she has the nerve to deny all of this to me, her family and her friends!!!!


If this is an email, forward it to a secure email and print it out and keep it in a safe place, if you can, get a screenshot of it and save it to jpeg. This will help with exposure when you email everyone, with the added bonus of posting it on your facebook wall if you so choose.


----------



## calif_hope

Ask your kids fir copies of her Facebook postings
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

bmichael,

It is a sad day when your ww will post terrible/hurtful messages on a public forum (facebook) where your kids will see them. Ask your kids to print them out, keep them as a record and then ask your wife to stop doing that. She is only hurting the kids.

You are right. She has lost her mind. You to to file for "D" whether you want to or not.

You also need to ask her to leave the house because she is toxic not only to you but your family.

When a woman wants to not only walk away from a marriage but her children there is much more going on than her not able to deal with your anger issues anymore. Most woman do not walk away from the kids and only want to see them once a month.

Stay strong. Keep your anger in check. Let her know you expect er at the MC appt. Do not give her a choice.

Out her affair and Las Vegas trip to everyone.

Do not make her A easy for her.

Good Luck an Stay tough.

HM64


----------



## bmichael

I may just be feeling guilty or whatever, but I'm starting to think I handled this whole situation the wrong way.

My daughter posted on FB yesterday that she was disappointed with "someone" and my wife knew right away that it was her. My wife came home angry and asked me to go for a ride with her, which I did.

At that time, she chewed me out and asked what I had told my daughter to make her upset. I said I told her nothing and then exposed my knowledge of the secret cellphone and the proposed trip to Vegas. She acknowledged the cellphone but still denied there was anything with this OM!! Still saying they're just friends!! That she "flirts" with all her guy friends! Is she in denial, crazy, or what is wrong with her?

Anyway, I showed her my proposed separation agreement and she totally flipped out at what I had down for the custody of our children (that they remain with me at the house and she will be able to see them on Tuesday, Thursday and every other weekend). I told her it was my preliminary but she kept saying I was trying to take the kids from her! She became very angry and irrational, and on top of all this, she claimed all the money in our account is hers to do with as she pleased since it's her student loan money (I've been out of work and just started a new job for which I haven't been paid yet).

Once we got back to the house, and she was still fired up and causing a scene with our kids in the room (called me an a-hole in front of them), my daughter (17) revealed her knowledge of the cellphone and the OM and the trip to Vegas. I had in fact shown my daughter the messages (not smart, looking back on it). My wife became furious and said her lawyer would have a field day with this.

I think deep down, even though I feel very hurt, my goal in the end is still a reconciliation but now I feel that may never happen since my wife is so bitter. I still think her anger is a result of my finding out about her feelings for this OM, exposing it, and causing him to disappear. She's still agreeing to attend counseling on Monday but says it's not for the benefit of saving our marriage, it's to let "my" counseler know her feelings on the situation. She's also wanting our children to attend therapy as well. Heck, she said I should be the one to leave the house, and even admitted that she doesn't have a place to go yet.

I guess my question is how should I proceed? What should I do? I'm trying to 180, I'm trying to man-up with this, but how do I stabilize this situation?


----------



## hookares

Let's see now.
She's been screwing around and has been making plans that don't include you, yet has done nothing wrong.
YOU had the audacity to find out about it and now your children are aware of the issue as well.
Obviously YOU are the only person in the wrong here and EVERYBODY would eventually have taken her side in this, anyway.
So, what has changed?


----------



## Initfortheduration

You can't base your decision on her response. You have a job and can support your kids. F the money in you bank account. Tell her to use it to get an apartment. I can guarantee your daughter will never look at her mother same after this.


----------



## bmichael

Initfortheduration said:


> You can't base your decision on her response. You have a job and can support your kids. F the money in you bank account. Tell her to use it to get an apartment. I can guarantee your daughter will never look at her mother same after this.


I'm a little concerned about showing my daughter the messages that my wife might try to pursue legal action against me. I hate to admit it, but the reason I saw the messages is because I was able to access her email account. I have the password and my wife doesn't realize it. She thinks I hacked her secure laptop and got into her facebook.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I'd say almost all waywards flip out like this when they get exposed. It's typical and to be expected. And honestly, what is she going to tell her lawyer?- "He told our children the truth!!" Empty threats. She's in a downward spiral now that her secret is out and being made public.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Family computer? if so whats the legal action, it popped up when you logged on, you didnt hack anything...computer clitch, happens all the time....She is just trying to play you with the legal action to get you to back off...DONT, stand your ground, be strong, she wants out, help her pack....

as for her yelling in front of the kids causing a scene, ask her what her and your atty would think of that.....

Stay calm, dont yell, just the facts mam...


----------



## Eli-Zor

bmichael said:


> I'm a little concerned about showing my daughter the messages that my wife might try to pursue legal action against me. I hate to admit it, but the reason I saw the messages is because I was able to access her email account. I have the password and my wife doesn't realize it. She thinks I hacked her secure laptop and got into her facebook.


Dont be concerned , her reaction is normal for a wayward who has been exposed. While your at it let her parents know as well. Waywards spew many things , if she tries to threaten you smile and say that your sure the OM has no problem being called to court to testify against her or having his private and company email suphoenad. The last thing she will want is a public court case that confirms her adultery and likely a mention in the local newspaper .

She is trying to intimidate you , her worst fear is further exposure so her threats will flow freely . Stand firm .
Learn to be quiet , you owe her no explanations . Cancel the councilling it's a waste of time at this moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

If she is going to act like that get a Var to record her cursing and yelling. 

She is just acting out because her fantasy is no longer a fantasty but brutal reality. She will no doubt calm down. Showing weaknesss howeever, will result in some serious contempt. If you read the threads on here the sucessful reconcilliations all happen because the loyal spouse(LS) stands their ground and stands up for themselves and their family.

have you been reading here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Manning up also means controlling anger. Anger shows weakness.


----------



## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> Dont be concerned , her reaction is normal for a wayward who has been exposed. While your at it let her parents know as well. Waywards spew many things , if she tries to threaten you smile and say that your sure the OM has no problem being called to court to testify against her or having his private and company email suphoenad. The last thing she will want is a public court case that confirms her adultery and likely a mention in the local newspaper .
> 
> She is trying to intimidate you , her worst fear is further exposure so her threats will flow freely . Stand firm .
> Learn to be quiet , you owe her no explanations . Cancel the councilling it's a waste of time at this moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very true,if she is still in contact with the POSOM there is no reason for marriage counseling, she will just use it against you. Disinvite her and be sure to tell her why.


----------



## lordmayhem

:iagree:

Marriage counselling is for when the couple is in R and both of them are 100% committed to fixing the marriage. It's useless while the affair is still ongoing because the WS is still in the fog. Cancel the MC for now, she will only use it to validate her foggy thinking and use it against you.


----------



## bmichael

Thanks for the advice. Definitely disinviting her from the counseling.

I went to log into her email to get copies of the messages since I hadn't done that before now out of fear of the ramifications and it seems she's changed the password.


----------



## lordmayhem

Install the keylogger now! I really wished you had saved those emails yesterday. This is why you can't be in fear.


----------



## lordmayhem

Alright, there may be a chance that you can retrieve it through the web browsers. These are the programs that I used to get the password to the wifes secret facebook account after DDay. This is before I looked on the net about keyloggers, etc. You can download these off the interwebs. Google these.

WebBrowserPassView - Works for Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Google Chrome

FirePasswordViewer - Firefox only
IEPasswordDecryptor - Internet Explorer only
OperaPasswordDecryptor - Opera browsers


----------



## happyman64

BMichael,

If you really want to R then you have to man up. You are getting great advice here. 

Install the keylogger right away. It is your pc too!
You keep the emails you have printed, if you don't have any of them you better get them for the future.

Bring her to counselling. Let her blast away. Then when it is your turn you bring up the emails, the private marriage info she shared with the OM and the Vegas trip. Man up!!!

Lastly, get a VAR. Record her outbursts in the car, in your home and in front of your kids. Get a copy of the hurtdul FB messages too!

Out her nonsense to the entire family. Do not let her lie about you of the marriage.

Keep working on you too!

Good Luck....


----------



## bmichael

well, i may be really screwed here.

it's web email that she only accesses through her secure laptop and itouch from her school, and I don't have access to it at all. and now she's changed the password leaving me without any proof or anyway of getting any proof.

All I have is my word and the word of my daughter whom I showed the messages to yesterday.


----------



## lordmayhem

Now you've learned the hard way. This is what happens when you confront too early and without securing your proof. Live and learn. Get the VAR today then. Here's some examples:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips+-+Voice+Tracer+Digital+Voice+Recorder/2596305.p?id=1218338417967&skuId=2596305

Walmart.com: Sony ICD-BX8112 Digital Flash Voice Recorder: iPods & MP3 Players

Do it now before she empties out the account. You need to be proactive here.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> Now you've learned the hard way. This is what happens when you confront too early and without securing your proof. Live and learn. Get the VAR today then. Here's some examples:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips+-+Voice+Tracer+Digital+Voice+Recorder/2596305.p?id=1218338417967&skuId=2596305
> 
> Walmart.com: Sony ICD-BX8112 Digital Flash Voice Recorder: iPods & MP3 Players
> 
> Do it now before she empties out the account. You need to be proactive here.


Maybe I confronted too early but I was really trying to protect myself by not securing the evidence and it has definitely back fired.

I already have a VAR. I guess I just need to put it in her car or something. I do have the OM's cellphone number.


----------



## Almostrecovered

get a 2nd one to keep on your person for when she has fits or in case she decides to falsely accuse you something


----------



## Shaggy

As for telling your 17 yr old there is nothing wrong there. She is plenty old to know what her mom is been doing etc. there isn't a thing she can do to you for that or for telling the truth.

The evidence would have been good to have, but big picture it's not that important. The three of you know the truth so no gas lighting is possible on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Almostrecovered said:


> get a 2nd one to keep on your person for when she has fits or in case she decides to falsely accuse you something


Bmichael,
What we are trying to tell you is that you need to take control of the situation.

When your wife asks you to go for a car ride just say no. We will talk during counseling.

You should have printed the emails because you jumped the gun. Now she will erase everything.

If she is flying off the handle I think the guilt is starting to hit her a little. Do not let off the gas.

Do not be afraid to let her go out the door. She is not acting like a god spouse is she? She is not setting a good example for the kids is she?

Do not act in fear. Do not Respond in anger. Think before you say anything to her. 

More than ever you need to 180 for you. For the kids, not for her!

She might have been hurt by your anger in the past, but she has lost all respect for you and now your a doormat.

Time to stand up for yourself, let her know you refuse to be disrespected by her in front of your kids, hand her bags and tell her that her parents have been updated and she can move in with them.

She can come back when she is rational, NC with the OM, ready to be respectful to you, the marriage and the family.

Try it if you think it will relieve some of the stress in your home. My two cents anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

happyman64 said:


> Bmichael,
> What we are trying to tell you is that you need to take control of the situation.
> 
> When your wife asks you to go for a car ride just say no. We will talk during counseling.
> 
> You should have printed the emails because you jumped the gun. Now she will erase everything.
> 
> If she is flying off the handle I think the guilt is starting to hit her a little. Do not let off the gas.
> 
> Do not be afraid to et her go out the door. She is not acting like a god spouse is she? She is not setting a good example for the kids is she?
> 
> Do not act in fear. Do not Respond in anger. Think before you say anything to her.
> 
> More than ever you need to 180 for you. For the kids, not for her!
> 
> She might have been hurt by your anger in the past, but she has lost all respect for you and now your a doormat.
> 
> Time to stand up for yourself, let her know you refuse to be disrespected by her in front of your kids, hand her bags and tell her that her parents have been updated and she can move in with them.
> 
> She can come back when she is rational, NC with the OM, ready to be respectful to you, the marriage and the family.
> 
> Try it if you think it will relieve some of the stress in your home. My two cents anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

If it gets that far which I doubt, your attorney will subpeona all her emails, facebook accts. etc. Remind her that trying to erase them is destroying evidence. Don't know if that last part is true but who cares.

Most IMPORTANTLY are you following the 180?


----------



## martyc47

You can't second guess yourself based on your wife's reactions. Those in the fog are not rational and they are going to get pissed when you remove their ability to do whatever the hell they want with no consequences.

My wife had an EA- typical scenario. She wanted to "separate" supposedly because of how I treated her, but the reality was that there was a guy from high school she started talking to during a vulnerable time. She was deep in the online EA and wanted to "separate" so she could claim she wasn't cheating once they met in person.

I did all the wrong things- begging, highlighting all the good reasons to stay together,etc. I would perceive things getting better, but all I was doing was pushing her into pursuing the other thing- especially when I showed I was willing to be there for her no matter what. Finally when I knew there was no other choice, I took control. I set the terms of the separation. She was behaving out of character, neglecting the children. I stepped up there. I ignored her attempts to make me jealous, ignored her attempts to seduce me. Just didnt give a damn what she was doing. Any time I showed that I wasn't 100% devoted to sitting around and being her backup piece of cake- She went completely crazy. I was the worst person in the world, she would never be with me again, blah blah blah. Whatever.

Of course she came crawling back, begging, saying how much she loved me and how sorry she was for everything.

My point is, you can't base whether you are doing the right thing off the reactions of a crazy person. You have to do what's right because it's right.


----------



## bmichael

Great advice everyone! I've just starting the 180 so I guess I'm vulnerable still.

She really freaked about the custody setup I had in the agreement. I gave her Tuesday, Thursday and every other weekend. She went ballistic and said it wasn't joint custody!
All the while denying the EA and OM to me, her family, friends and our kids, which upsets me the most.

Thanks for the back up. I'm going to stay strong and not budge from my position.


----------



## Chaparral

Go here and start at the beginning of Decimated's thread. He really did not get the advise people get here now, thank God.

This will help you: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/search.php?searchid=1992874

His latest posts are not in the first thread and thats where he tells how things really were.


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Go here and start at the beginning of Decimated's thread. He really did not get the advise people get here now, thank God.
> 
> This will help you: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/search.php?searchid=1992874
> 
> His latest posts are not in the first thread and thats where he tells how things really were.


I'm not getting anything for that link. I think it's dead.

I guess I'm not sure whether or not I should disinvite her from the counseling on Monday. I already know she's not going for the right reasons.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Disinvite her do not explain why , she can work it out herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

If this doesn't take you there its on the CWI page " Decimated's " thread;;http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/23812-trying-hold-together-ww.html


----------



## Chaparral

You can take her to marriage counseling if you think you can get any usefull info from it. But MC is useless if she is still having an affair. You will find that she will lie and use the sessionto her own advantage.


----------



## F-102

She's angry that you destroyed her fantasy
She's angry that she was dumb enough to get caught
She's angry that she can't cake eat
She's angry that you showed that you won't roll over
She's angry that she has lost TOTAL control
She's angry that you told your kids the truth
She's angry because now she can't turn the kids against you
She's angry that she can't get the counselor to her side
She's angry that she won't get to re-write history on HER terms
She's angry that she won't get custody on HER terms
She's angry that she won't get more child support from you
She's angry that she won't "get everything"
She's angry that you stood up to her

She's angry because you showed her what you're really made of


----------



## Initfortheduration

Regarding exposure. This is my philosophy. If on your wedding day you wanted to show the whole world you are joining yourself to this person for life. When a spouse cheats, I think it is just as news worthy that they have decided to join themselves to someone else. Oh and of course the circumstances. So if a WW/WS thinks that they can join you in public but f#$k you over in private..........not a chance.


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> You can take her to marriage counseling if you think you can get any usefull info from it. But MC is useless if she is still having an affair. You will find that she will lie and use the sessionto her own advantage.


I'm pretty sure the affair is over with and she's doing whatever she can to get back at me for outting it. She seemed to be doing some plotting yesterday, but I don't care.

She has an appointment with her attourney tomorrow. I'm sure she'll want another one of her conversations afterward. 

I haven't told her she's disinvited from the counseling yet. I'm thinking about doing that today and giving her an updated copy of my separation agreement, which isn't really changed from the original one I gave her.

I'm sure she still believes she's going to be able to change my stance on her visitation with the kids (Tuesday and Thursday, every other weekend) but she's the one that's planning on walking out on us. She's the one that's been too busy with schooling for the past four years. She's the one that doesn't even have a job or a settled place to go. I don't see her being able to change anything.

She should have thought about all of this before her EA. I'm not perfect but I've been faithful throughout our 16 year marriage, and I deserve to be treated better than this!


----------



## spudster

Work the 180, don't stop. You have no control over what she is going to do, and the 180 will help you release that illusion of control. Go to No More Mr. Nice Guy and check out the posts there. There is some good stuff in there. Your outbursts of anger are a typical Chronic Nice Guy attribute believe it or not. Deep inside you fear losing control. That is your biggest problem. You need to get to the root of your need for control and dig it out of yourself the IC or whatever means necessary.


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## happyman64

BMichael,

There is the truth. She should have treated you better.

You are doing the right thing. Keep pushing forward and making your life better.

Maybe she will wake up. Most likely she will not.

No matter what keep saying to yourself "I deserve better".

Go out and find what makes you happy. Focus on you, your anger issues and fix them. You cannot fix her. Only she can do that. 

HM64


----------



## Shaggy

Print the following out and refer back to it:

Stay the course. You are doing the right thing.


----------



## Thor

Keep in mind whatever it is that YOU want. Don't let her anger or outbursts sway your actions, just keep marching towards your goal.

The evidence may be gone, but what does that matter? It's not like you are prosecuting her for a felony crime. It may have been nice leverage to threaten exposure, and thus get a concession out of her in the divorce agreement. Ultimately though the hard evidence doesn't really do much for you.

Are you talking to a lawyer? I scanned the thread but don't recall seeing that you have a lawyer. He/she can tell you what kind of evidence would be helpful in the future.

Don't kick yourself for revealing too soon. You followed your natural instincts. Your basic honesty also came into play, you felt some guilt for spying on her.


----------



## bmichael

Yes, I've consulted a lawyer. 

It's a waiting game on my wife to see how she proceeds from this point. If she walks out, like she's content to do, she's not going to have any ground to stand on since she'll be walking out on all of us.


----------



## Complexity

In my opinion the only time a betrayed spouse should pursue reconciliation is if their cheating spouse begs on their knees for it. You went above and beyond what was needed to save this marriage. 

Just reading the stories on here, it's so sad to think the person you love more than anything in life would reduce you to this mini secret agent. VARs here, hacking email accounts there and for what in the end? even if you reconcile, it's just a long painful life ahead and if you don't it's the same anyway.

sigh/


----------



## spudster

> Just reading the stories on here, it's so sad to think the person you love more than anything in life would reduce you to this mini secret agent. VARs here, hacking email accounts there and for what in the end? even if you reconcile, it's just a long painful life ahead and if you don't it's the same anyway.


I agree. In the end what is the point? Even if R does happen, you will always have doubts. You will always be looking behind your back, having suspicions about every man your wife talks to, wondering where she is if she's the slightest bit late getting home.... always expecting the worst.

That, my friend, is no way to live. 

That I why I dumped my wife the very day I confirmed she was cheating (caught her at a motel about to do the act). Kicked her to the curb and for the next three months she cried, screamed, threatened, and begged me not to D her. But I did. That was barely five years ago and I'm glad I did not back down from my decision. She moved in with the guy she cheated on me with, then a month or so after our divorce she dumped him for her second husband. A year later he kicked her out for cheating on him with the man who is now her third husband. And now the scuttlebutt I hear from mutual acquaintences is that she is most likely cheating on him now!!!

Let your wife go. It is for your best.


----------



## Complexity

spudster said:


> I agree. In the end what is the point? Even if R does happen, you will always have doubts. You will always be looking behind your back, having suspicions about every man your wife talks to, wondering where she is if she's the slightest bit late getting home.... always expecting the worst.
> 
> That, my friend, is no way to live.
> 
> That I why I dumped my wife the very day I confirmed she was cheating (caught her at a motel about to do the act). Kicked her to the curb and for the next three months she cried, screamed, threatened, and begged me not to D her. But I did. That was barely five years ago and I'm glad I did not back down from my decision. She moved in with the guy she cheated on me with, then a month or so after our divorce she dumped him for her second husband. A year later he kicked her out for cheating on him with the man who is now her third husband. And now the scuttlebutt I hear from mutual acquaintences is that she is most likely cheating on him now!!!
> 
> Let your wife go. It is for your best.


Glad you're doing better spudster,you can never really know a person can you.


----------



## bmichael

Told her last night that she was disinvited to the counseling session. She still insisted that she was going. I told her that there wasn't a need. I also gave her an updated copy of the separation agreement that I have done up so she had it prior to her meeting with a lawyer today. 

She still insists that Tuesday, Thursday and every other weekend isn't going to fly. That I'm not going to have primary custody. I don't know what she's thinking. As I stated before, she only has her student loan money and no other income, and doesn't even have a place to live!

She also threatened me about our joint bank account. The money in the account is from her student loans and that's what we're living on until I get my check from my job. She told me I would have to pay back any money I spent! For example, I'm taking one of my daughter's to NYC this week to audition for NYU and Juilliard. She said I would have to pay her back for my half of the trip! Like we're going to send our daughter to NYC be herself!

On top of all this, she's still in denial about her EA and even lies about it to our kids. Makes it sounds like I'm an over jealous whack job when discussing it with the MIL in front of my daughter, who was upset and told me about it. Then claims it was just a friendship that I wrecked and because he's a doctor and she's studying PA, I destroyed potential career contacts for her.

I wish there was something I could do to just make her leave the house.  But now it seems she's going to try everything she can to rip the kids away from me.


----------



## AngryandUsed

She is trying to scare you. Take care.


----------



## lordmayhem

Indeed. She's trying to bully you into sweeping everything under the rug.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmichael

Well, I'm going to continue to wait and see what she does or doesn't do. I have no control over it anyway. I'm struggling with the 180 here at the beginning but I'm continuing onward.

My MC session for tonight is now IC.

I have a feeling she's going to be hit by a dose of reality when she meets with the lawyer today and finds out things aren't going to go the way she thinks.

I've already spoken to a lawyer so I know the answers to some of the questions she's going to ask, and she's not going to like them.

I'm reading the "Just Let Them Go" thread and that's a wonderful way of looking at things.


----------



## bmichael

Trying to gather evidence. What's the best way to place this VAR in her car? Under the seat? Tape it somewhere?

Are there any legal ramifications with trying to use this as evidence in court?


----------



## Almostrecovered

depends on the state, most it won't matter as they are no fault on-some states even make it is illegal (but rarely enforced)


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## bmichael

Almostrecovered said:


> depends on the state, most it won't matter as they are no fault on-some states even make it is illegal (but rarely enforced)


Ok. I have the VAR ready. Just need the opportunity to stick it under the driver's seat in her car.

Since I messed up and don't have the messages, I'm trying to get other evidence. Everyone besides my daughter who saw the messages thinks I'm an over jealous crack smoker. And now she's threatening me in regards to the kids... I'm not standing for that.


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## Shaggy

Use heavy duty velcro to attach it under the seat.


----------



## bmichael

I didn't get a chance to do anything with a VAR yesterday as my wife was gone before I came home from work. She had her consultation with a lawyer.

Afterwards, she tells me that her lawyer suggested we set up a "bird's nest" custody arrangment for our kids. Does she actually think I'm going to agree to this?!

My lawyer already told me that if this separation goes through, I shouldn't have any trouble retaining the house, getting primary custody of the kids, and probably seeking spousal support from the wife since she goes to college all day, studies all night, and only has student loan money for income.

Plus, my wife is in complete denial that she did anything wrong at all. Still insists that the messages were between friends, and that the messages between her and the 3rd party were a flirty way of relaying the other conversations. I have moments where I start believing her, but this reasoning makes no sense to me. And she said she could never be with me again after I told a couple of her friends and her mother about the inappropriate conversations.

I'm trying to 180 but I find it so much more difficult when she's in this house and not leaving. I also find it hard since I'm so confused on whether I want an R or not, which I know I shouldn't even be thinking about right now.


----------



## bmichael

Dadof3 said:


> Also - check with your lawyer (or the one you get) about alienation of affection statutes. With a Dr boyfriend - the plunder could be VAST!


My lawyer's eyes lit up when I mentioned this scum was a doctor and that the third party running his mouth and telling my wife she's better off without me is a doctor, too.


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> I didn't get a chance to do anything with a VAR yesterday as my wife was gone before I came home from work. She had her consultation with a lawyer.
> 
> Afterwards, she tells me that her lawyer suggested we set up a "bird's nest" custody arrangment for our kids. Does she actually think I'm going to agree to this?!
> 
> My lawyer already told me that if this separation goes through, I shouldn't have any trouble retaining the house, getting primary custody of the kids, and probably seeking spousal support from the wife since she goes to college all day, studies all night, and only has student loan money for income.
> 
> Plus, my wife is in complete denial that she did anything wrong at all. Still insists that the messages were between friends, and that the messages between her and the 3rd party were a flirty way of relaying the other conversations. I have moments where I start believing her, but this reasoning makes no sense to me. And she said she could never be with me again after I told a couple of her friends and her mother about the inappropriate conversations.
> 
> I'm trying to 180 but I find it so much more difficult when she's in this house and not leaving. I also find it hard since I'm so confused on whether I want an R or not, which I know I shouldn't even be thinking about right now.


People read into the 180 what is not there. Wanting to reconcile is not incosistent with the 180. Living together should not affect the 180.

"And she said she could never be with me again after I told a couple of her friends and her mother about the inappropriate conversations."

Let her know that from what you have read this is a common phrase used by people who have cheated. You might also mention that everything she is doing is following a common cheaters script.


----------



## Dadof3

chapparal said:


> People read into the 180 what is not there. Wanting to reconcile is not incosistent with the 180. Living together should not affect the 180.
> 
> "And she said she could never be with me again after I told a couple of her friends and her mother about the inappropriate conversations."
> 
> Let her know that from what you have read this is a common phrase used by people who have cheated. You might also mention that everything she is doing is following a common cheaters script.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## spudster

Hey bmichael, any updates?


----------



## bmichael

spudster said:


> Hey bmichael, any updates?


I've been in NYC the last few days with my daughter.

Not much to update on really. She keeps saying she's leaving but she hasn't gone anywhere yet.

I'm in full 180 mode and I'm feeling pretty good! I've been working out like crazy and in the last few weeks I've dropped 20 pounds. I also start a new job tomorrow!

I'm taking it one day at a time and making sure I'm the best person possible for my kids.


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## spudster

Good going! Keep it up!


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## bmichael

A little bit of an update.

I was going to get something out of my truck and when I walked by my wife who was sitting on the sofa, I saw that she was looking at a picture on her cellphone of the OM! 

She still said he was just a friend, and that he won't have any contact with her because of what I did! However, I'm wondering... if she's not friends with him on FB or whatever, how is she able to see his picture? I'm getting a little worried that this thing went underground when I thought it was over!

Anyway, she talked about withdrawing her retirement money in order to set up her own place. It looks like that money should come this week. I'm really sick of this whole situation!

Should I contact the OM again and warn him of the legal ramifications if he's still in contact with my wife or should I just let it go? She's still very angry at me for the whole exposure I already did, though at this point, I know it was the right thing to do.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

No point in contacting him. Leave it all to your lawyer at this point-


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## happyman64

BMichael,

Do not do anything right now. I would sit tight and see what your wife does. Let her look at his picture all day. She is in the fog!!!

Keep implementing the 180 for you. Detach from your wife as best you can. Keep the interaction with her about the kids and only the kids.

Either she goes true NC and is remorseful or she moves out to be single again. That will be your answer. She is either in the marriage or out of the marriage and leaving the family.

You have done nothing wrong.

HM64

PS
Your daughter must be very talented. Those are great schools you were looking at together. I live in NY and you have to show great talent/promise to attend there. Good Luck to Her.


----------



## bmichael

I know reconciling isn't really part of the 180, but if I have any hope of doing so down the road, shouldn't I make sure this EA is over with now?

She's definitely planning to move out. She's withdrawn her retirement funds to do so.


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## happyman64

No. How will know it is over. You cannot control her. If she is set to go then let her go. From the way she is acting she is going to move out and take the A to the next level.

If she moves out then go see your attorney. Your wife wants to be single. She just has not told you.

And I know you are hurt but it will get worse. Go see your attorney if she moves out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> I know reconciling isn't really part of the 180, but if I have any hope of doing so down the road, shouldn't I make sure this EA is over with now?
> 
> She's definitely planning to move out. She's withdrawn her retirement funds to do so.


Her retirement funds are half yours.


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## happyman64

chapparal said:


> Her retirement funds are half yours.


Good point! I bet she does not know that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> No. How will know it is over. You cannot control her. If she is set to go then let her go. From the way she is acting she is going to move out and take the A to the next level.
> 
> If she moves out then go see your attorney. Your wife wants to be single. She just has not told you.
> 
> And I know you are hurt but it will get worse. Go see your attorney if she moves out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She can't take this A to the next level because he's in Denver and is moving to Chicago. I've seen the messages confirming this.

She also never sent him a NC letter. I couldn't force her to do so. But I DEFINITELY want to make sure this EA is over with. But how can I?

We've talked about custody for the kids and she didn't agree to what I offered initially. She made threats against me, said she gave her lawyer proof of my anger problem and wouldn't hesitate to use it against me (pics of a hole in the wall I made when she told me she wanted a divorce). She wants to move out, separate, and try the custody setup before having anything written for an agreement. I'm starting to think I'm being to soft since I really want to work things out with her.

Ugh... this whole thing sucks!

Oh, I should mention that before I left on the trip to NYC with my daughter, my wife initiated a hug with me and said to have a good trip. Not sure if it means anything, but it was the first physical contact we've had in weeks.


----------



## Trojan John

A photo of a hole in a wall is proof of a hole in a wall. Perhaps you were doing home renovations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmichael

Trojan John said:


> A photo of a hole in a wall is proof of a hole in a wall. Perhaps you were doing home renovations.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True. I'm sure it was just scare tactics.

I don't really want to keep her from seeing the kids even though she's not acting like she has their best interests in mind right now.


----------



## calif_hope

Arrest reports for assault, photos of your wife/kids/others with injuries caused by you, statements from witnesses seeing you lose your cool, and incident police reports are all proof if an anger issue - a hole in the wall after your wife asks for a divorce - laughable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

calif_hope said:


> Arrest reports for assault, photos of your wife/kids/others with injuries caused by you, statements from witnesses seeing you lose your cool, and incident police reports are all proof if an anger issue - a hole in the wall after your wife asks for a divorce - laughable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## bmichael

Wife initiated more discussions last night.

Apparently, the house she was going to move into fell through and she's no longer able to rent it. She's checking out an apartment today.

I asked her about getting the kids back and forth to school.

She's plannning to bring them by my house so they can ride the bus on HER days in the morning, and then pick the littlest ones up from my house when she gets home, since she doesn't make it into the area in time to get them from aftercare. Should I agree to this?! I mean, it's for the benefit of the kids but it seems like she's trying to take advantage of me.

I'm really sick of having disagreements with her, but this seems a bit much. She also wants me to keep her on my medical insurance even though she can get her own through her school.

I really think my wanting to reconcile is making me soft, but what should I do? I'm trying really hard to let her go but it's so difficult after 20 years and 6 kids.


----------



## Shaggy

You should always ensure your kids are safe - however you should never be bending over backwards to make the situation that she has created work for her.

Realize the disagreements are when you don't agree to her selfish ME ME ME wants. She is the one who walked, she is the one who XXX. 

Meanwhile you've been there ready to take her back and work on things.

Don't let her wear you down to where she just gets everything she asks for.


----------



## snap

Since you share the custody, tell her if she is unable to fulfill her part you'd pick up the slack, but it has to be done officially and in the writing.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you checked out this thread?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38920-women-s-infidelity-book.html


----------



## bmichael

I haven't tried the VAR, I haven't done anything as far as looking deeper into the OM. I'm positive he's single, and he's out of state, but I don't know if my wife is still communicating with him.

Looks like she may have found an apartment to move in to. However, she's planning to withdraw her retirement funds to do so. On top of that, she needs me to sign off in order for her to get her funds.

I'm thinking about demanding her cellphones, laptop, full access to get all the proof and facts about the EA before agreeing to sign anything, which I probably shouldn't do at all. But if I don't agree, she'll be stuck at my house until who knows when.

Thoughts?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Have you checked out this thread?
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38920-women-s-infidelity-book.html


Checking this out now.

I'm sure my wife is either still in the middle of the EA onlly underground with her new cellphone, or she's recovering from it after I exposed. I'm not sure, but she says she definitely doesn't want to be with me, yet she's acting like everything is fine now that she's possibly found an apartment to run off to.


----------



## TDSC60

Your wife is definitely tying to take advantage of you. She is attempting to control you using the kids. 

On her days with the kids she is solely responsible. Do not let her shift HER responsibilities to HER children onto you for the sake of HER convenience. Harsh - but you have to have it that way. I hope this custody agreement is written and legal.

Now if there is an emergency there is nothing that can stop you from lending a hand or even bending a little for the sake of the kids. Just do not let her set a standard that you are attending to the kids when she is otherwise occupied. She has to alter her schedule for the kids on her days. Period. It is her responsibility.

Do not let her set the tone for this. She wanted the separation, she is the one who dumped the marriage, now she does not want the responsibilities that come with her actions.

Good luck. I would be very wary regarding this.


----------



## Shaggy

bmichael said:


> I haven't tried the VAR, I haven't done anything as far as looking deeper into the OM. I'm positive he's single, and he's out of state, but I don't know if my wife is still communicating with him.
> 
> Looks like she may have found an apartment to move in to. However, she's planning to withdraw her retirement funds to do so. On top of that, she needs me to sign off in order for her to get her funds.
> 
> I'm thinking about demanding her cellphones, laptop, full access to get all the proof and facts about the EA before agreeing to sign anything, which I probably shouldn't do at all. But if I don't agree, she'll be stuck at my house until who knows when.
> 
> Thoughts?


Irealize that half that is your money as is the increased taxes you'll pay this year along with withdrawl penalty.

So it isn't just her taking out of her money. If affects you too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calif_hope

If you filed a joint return to IRS while her payroll / income levels were reduced by retirement contributions made by her - you two will face significant tax consequences by withdrawing retirement funds ー she may only net 40% of the amount she withdraws.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Bmichael,
Do not make her wanting to separate or leave easy. She is just running as fast as she can from the marriage.
Do not sign anything regarding the money. Talk to an accountant. Then talk to an attorney. Otherwise she is going to leave you holding all the bills.

Go straight to a divorce. Do not bother with a separation. That is her idea so she can sit on a fence for a year to have fun while you sit at home babysitting your kids.

Call her out now. She wants a divorce. Fine. Go see an attorney and work out a custody arrangement. Do not waiver.

Let her see what she is going to lose. 

Stop talking about you wanting to R when all she wants to do is run away from you, your kids and your marriage.

Go full steam ahead, do the 180 to get your head on straight and show her you have no fear. 

If she still goes with the divorce then you have your answer and you will have saved yourself one year of heartbreak. You will also be one year ahead of no drama and year closer to finding a woman that shares your ideals of marriage loves a lot of kids too.

Be strong, be brave and call her bluff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

happyman64 said:


> Bmichael,
> Do not make her wanting to separate or leave easy. She is just running as fast as she can from the marriage.
> Do not sign anything regarding the money. Talk to an accountant. Then talk to an attorney. Otherwise she is going to leave you holding all the bills.
> 
> Go straight to a divorce. Do not bother with a separation. That is her idea so she can sit on a fence for a year to have fun while you sit at home babysitting your kids.
> 
> Call her out now. She wants a divorce. Fine. Go see an attorney and work out a custody arrangement. Do not waiver.
> 
> Let her see what she is going to lose.
> 
> Stop talking about you wanting to R when all she wants to do is run away from you, your kids and your marriage.
> 
> Go full steam ahead, do the 180 to get your head on straight and show her you have no fear.
> 
> If she still goes with the divorce then you have your answer and you will have saved yourself one year of heartbreak. You will also be one year ahead of no drama and year closer to finding a woman that shares your ideals of marriage loves a lot of kids too.
> 
> Be strong, be brave and call her bluff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> Bmichael,
> Do not make her wanting to separate or leave easy. She is just running as fast as she can from the marriage.
> Do not sign anything regarding the money. Talk to an accountant. Then talk to an attorney. Otherwise she is going to leave you holding all the bills.
> 
> Go straight to a divorce. Do not bother with a separation. That is her idea so she can sit on a fence for a year to have fun while you sit at home babysitting your kids.
> 
> Call her out now. She wants a divorce. Fine. Go see an attorney and work out a custody arrangement. Do not waiver.
> 
> Let her see what she is going to lose.
> 
> Stop talking about you wanting to R when all she wants to do is run away from you, your kids and your marriage.
> 
> Go full steam ahead, do the 180 to get your head on straight and show her you have no fear.
> 
> If she still goes with the divorce then you have your answer and you will have saved yourself one year of heartbreak. You will also be one year ahead of no drama and year closer to finding a woman that shares your ideals of marriage loves a lot of kids too.
> 
> Be strong, be brave and call her bluff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately in North Carolina, I can't file divorce until we've been separated for one year or I would have tried to call her bluff before this.

Also, she says this relationship with the OM was only a friendship, yet she deleted the account where I saw the messages (I didn't reveal my source) and she's removed all text messages from her secret phone(which she showed me briefly).

She's been approved for an apartment which is a 3 bedroom and I have five kids that we'll be splitting custody on! They're going to love having to share rooms when at our house they have their own.

It amazes me how little she seems to care how much this will affect our children.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

bmichael said:


> Unfortunately in North Carolina, I can't file divorce until we've been separated for one year or I would have tried to call her bluff before this.
> 
> Also, she says this relationship with the OM was only a friendship, yet she deleted the account where I saw the messages (I didn't reveal my source) and she's removed all text messages from her secret phone(which she showed me briefly).
> 
> She's been approved for an apartment which is a 3 bedroom and I have five kids that we'll be splitting custody on! They're going to love having to share rooms when at our house they have their own.
> 
> It amazes me how little she seems to care how much this will affect our children.


Can you get a legal separation agreement drawn up? Something that states that you are separating with the intent to divorce and then sets out the parameters - custody, payments (if any), taxes, responsibilities, limitations (no gf/bf at the place when kids are there), etc.. Official looking and as close to a divorce as possible.


----------



## bmichael

Tall Average Guy said:


> Can you get a legal separation agreement drawn up? Something that states that you are separating with the intent to divorce and then sets out the parameters - custody, payments (if any), taxes, responsibilities, limitations (no gf/bf at the place when kids are there), etc.. Official looking and as close to a divorce as possible.


I can do up a separation agreement but she has to agree to everything and sign it or we have to go before a mediator and try to resolve everything.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

bmichael said:


> I can do up a separation agreement but she has to agree to everything and sign it or we have to go before a mediator and try to resolve everything.


I know it may be expensive, but going that route might show her how serious this is. She has to participate and realizes it is not a game.

Plus, it starts the clock for the one year separation in the event you want to divorce.


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Her retirement funds are half yours.


My wife is upset because she needs me to sign off on her retirement in order for her to draw the money. If I don't sign off, she won't have the funds to move out.

Hmmmm...


----------



## Eli-Zor

Don't play games , refuse to sign and close the discussion. If you do there will be financial consequences on you .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

Eli-Zor said:


> Don't play games , refuse to sign and close the discussion. If you do there will be financial consequences on you .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I told her I wouldn't sign it until I've spoke with my lawyer and/or an accountant.


----------



## calif_hope

Does she know that if she draws out $1 she is likely to only get a check for $0.40......they will withhold funds for the taxes owed and will deduct the substatial penalty. If she is planning her life or next move in what the statement balance says she has in her retirement account - she is a fool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

calif_hope said:


> Does she know that if she draws out $1 she is likely to only get a check for $0.40......they will withhold funds for the taxes owed and will deduct the substatial penalty. If she is planning her life or next move in what the statement balance says she has in her retirement account - she is a fool.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her statement balance is around 6k. She told me there was a tax penalty involved but I have no idea what it is. I figured that she wouldn't get anywhere near that amount. 3k if she's lucky.

On another subject... does anyone know how to do that extract of text messages from a backup on Itunes? She sank her Itouch to her laptop and I want to pull the text messages from the backup.


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> Her statement balance is around 6k. She told me there was a tax penalty involved but I have no idea what it is. I figured that she wouldn't get anywhere near that amount. 3k if she's lucky.
> 
> On another subject... does anyone know how to do that extract of text messages from a backup on Itunes? She sank her Itouch to her laptop and I want to pull the text messages from the backup.


I saw the 40% figure in a magazine today waiting for a haircut. That means it will cost $3600 to withdraw the money, half of which is yours.

Find almostrecovered's posts for the phone info


----------



## bmichael

Well, my daughter sent my wife a message asking her to reconsider leaving without trying to work things out. My wife told her she wasn't going to discuss our relationship with her, and that we would be happier apart.

My daughter lost it and chewed out my wife for treating me like garbage and for sending the inappropriate messages back and forth with the doctor, and that I was a great guy.

My wife responded by lashing out at me and blaming me for the message, and said that it's the reason why she's unwilling to work things out with me.

I told her that her actions, that her inappropriate messages, were to blame for this. She said that I wrecked her relationship with the doctor and that it could have led to potential jobs for her after she finished PA school. 

I told her that she was the one ripping the family apart, not me. That yeah, I had an anger problem but that I was working on it, and I had been willing to work on the marrage as well. 

I then told her that I wouldn't sign off on the retirement distribution, and that the kids weren't going to leave the house until we had a legal separation agreement in place.

She stormed off and said she was heading to the bank for who knows what.


----------



## Chaparral

You have already seperated bank accts right?

Are you doing the 180?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> You have already seperated bank accts right?
> 
> Are you doing the 180?


She withdrew $100 out of our account a week ago and started a new account at another bank. I'm planning to do the same thing this week.

I'm doing the 180 as best as I can which I think I'm doing better than I expected. It's only hard when she wants to talk about things and she's not putting the kids first.


----------



## happyman64

Good for u Bmichael.

Do not listen to her lies. Meet with an attorney to protect you and your family.

Your wife is runner. She does not want to deal with the issues. She just wants to run away.

A hidden phone tells you just how far she is willing to go to lie to you. And of course it hurts when you talk to her. She is in the fog. It is all about her right now. Totally selfish.

Try this link about recording messages off the iphone. The software is digidna. I might have a better program and will check it our first.

How to Transfer/Backup Text Messages/iMessages from iPhone to Computer (Windows & Mac) - YouTube

Stay strong. Do not make this easy for her.


----------



## bmichael

Well she flipped again.

I told her that even though she was moving out, that I expected her to pay half of the mortgage amount since her name is on the loan and she refused. I'm not sure what I can do legally to enforce this.

I also said she wasn't going to take the kids from the house until our agreement was official and finalized, to which she also flipped out and said I couldn't say that.

She tried to intimitate me by saying she has three doctors that are ready to loan her money to go to a lawyer if we don't work things out.

She said I'm trying to control her. Fog talk, I'm sure. She still refuses to acknowledge that the messages between her and the doctor were inappropriate, saying she talks to all her guy friends that way.

Now she's saying she lost feelings for me over five years ago when her father died and I didn't support her. That hurt so much to hear her say that.


----------



## morituri

The fact that she 'flipped' shows she is scared that the divorce will turn ugly and that her image to others will be tarred as the cheating wife.

File for divorce ASAP and requests a temporary custody order. This will prevent her from taking the kids. If she leaves she will be forced to make support payments for the kids and the house which is the kids home.


----------



## bmichael

morituri said:


> The fact that she 'flipped' shows she is scared that the divorce will turn ugly and that her image to others will be tarred as the cheating wife.
> 
> File for divorce ASAP and requests a temporary custody order. This will prevent her from taking the kids. If she leaves she will be forced to make support payments for the kids and the house which is the kids home.


I can't file for divorce. In NC you have to be separated for 1 year before filing for divorce.

Can I file for the temporary custody order while she's still here in the house and hasn't left yet?


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> I can't file for divorce. In NC you have to be separated for 1 year before filing for divorce.
> 
> Can I file for the temporary custody order while she's still here in the house and hasn't left yet?


File for legal seperation and custody. Give lawyer proof of EA.


----------



## happyman64

BMichael,

Your wife is in the fog.

Whether she has lost love for you or not she is acting irrational.

Go see an attorney pronto. Get custody for the kids. Start the separation process asap. If she has a few doctors willing to loan her money that would really worry me about what she has been up to the last few years.

Protect yourself and kids.

Show evidence of the A to the attorney. Act now.

HM64


----------



## Eli-Zor

If she does get money from the doctors you expose her affair to their co-workers and spouses that will cramp her plans and their support of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Is bmicheal being bitter or is he making her face the consequences? I am conflicted.


----------



## bmichael

warlock07 said:


> Is bmicheal being bitter or is he making her face the consequences? I am conflicted.


Is this a serious question? I don't feel bitter.


----------



## Shaggy

bmichael said:


> I can't file for divorce. In NC you have to be separated for 1 year before filing for divorce.
> 
> Can I file for the temporary custody order while she's still here in the house and hasn't left yet?


But you can get the lawyer working on it tomorrow.

Her actions really reflect someone who is very much in the affair fog - there is no doubt at this point - the red flags, the blame shifting, etc.


----------



## bmichael

I kind of went against the advice of the thread here and contacted the OM and asked him to what extent he saw the relationship with my wife.

He responded by threatening my life and hurdling numerous insults at me. I have the messages printed out and I already emailed them to my lawyer.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Can I file for the temporary custody order while she's still here in the house and hasn't left yet?


Contact your lawyer for that. But I do know that while there is no custody order in place, she would be able to take the kids while you're gone and there will be nothing you can do about it. She will be able to take them to another state. Thats why you need to move first before she does. Get that temporary custody order ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> I kind of went against the advice of the thread here and contacted the OM and asked him to what extent he saw the relationship with my wife.
> 
> He responded by threatening my life and hurdling numerous insults at me. I have the messages printed out and I already emailed them to my lawyer.


You were advised not to contact the OM, but you did anyway. OMs response was to be expected. If OM had contacted you to threaten you, you would have been able to file a police report against him for the threats.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> I kind of went against the advice of the thread here and contacted the OM and asked him to what extent he saw the relationship with my wife.
> 
> He responded by threatening my life and hurdling numerous insults at me. I have the messages printed out and I already emailed them to my lawyer.


Could you be more specific?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Could you be more specific?


He hurled profanities at me, said that he had my bank information, credit report, etc. 

That if I tried to contact him again he would "shoot me with his nine" that it was "locked and loaded".

I did not threaten him in anyway and simply asked him how he saw the relationship with my wife.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> He hurled profanities at me, said that he had my bank information, credit report, etc.
> 
> That if I tried to contact him again he would "shoot me with his nine" that it was "locked and loaded".
> 
> I did not threaten him in anyway and simply asked him how he saw the relationship with my wife.


Then if you have those emails or messages printed up, then go to the police station and file a police report against him for the threats and submit those emails as evidence, then file a restraining or protection order against him citing these threats. You will need his address or an address where he works so that he can be served with the order.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> Then if you have those emails or messages printed up, then go to the police station and file a police report against him for the threats and submit those emails as evidence, then file a restraining or protection order against him citing these threats. You will need his address or an address where he works so that he can be served with the order.


I'm planning a trip to the lawyer's today and the police station to follow up these threats.

Plus, I have counseling tonight. Full day of marriage garbage.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> I'm planning a trip to the lawyer's today and the police station to follow up these threats.
> 
> Plus, I have counseling tonight. Full day of marriage garbage.


Don't forget to bring the copies of the messages with you when you go to the courthouse when you apply for the RO/PO.


----------



## happyman64

BMichael,

Your wife is clearly running from the marriage. It sounds like this is more than a EA.

Go see your attorney today. Go to the police today and file against the doctor as well.

You need to protect yourself and your kids.

No more contact with the OM. It will not help you.

Tighten up your finances and secure your $$$.

Your lawyer will guide you.

Also try to keep your children out of the direct conflict. I do not think it will help you. As long as they know what she did and is doing right now that is enough.

Stay strong and act quick. By the time you get all the information about your wife's activities you might not want to R.

Good Luck,

Hm64


----------



## bmichael

Now her sister is sending me hateful, history-rewritten messages. Is this how all marriages break down because this is crazy.


----------



## DailyGrind

bmichael said:


> Now her sister is sending me hateful, history-rewritten messages. Is this how all marriages break down because this is crazy.


You have evidence....send it to her sister. Don't let your wife rewrite history, without trying to set the record straight. Her friends....that's another story...but family can impact the kids. THAT has to be on the up and up. You can't have her family libeling you to the children.


----------



## happyman64

bmichael,
Your wife is waging all out war on you. You have to fight back for you and your family.

Like I said before you definitely do not have the full picture of what your wife's affair is all about.

Now she is painting you in a horrible light to her sister and the OM. Very typical of a wayward wife.

So sorry you are going through this.

She will keep hurting you no matter what you do. Exposé her when you have too.

Dig deeper for the truth.

Did you see the attorney today and the police?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> bmichael,
> Your wife is waging all out war on you. You have to fight back for you and your family.
> 
> Like I said before you definitely do not have the full picture of what your wife's affair is all about.
> 
> Now she is painting you in a horrible light to her sister and the OM. Very typical of a wayward wife.
> 
> So sorry you are going through this.
> 
> She will keep hurting you no matter what you do. Exposé her when you have too.
> 
> Dig deeper for the truth.
> 
> Did you see the attorney today and the police?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm heading there now.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Now her sister is sending me hateful, history-rewritten messages. Is this how all marriages break down because this is crazy.


Send her a single message that she stop or you will file a police report and get a RO against her for harassment.

BTW, how did the filing of the report and meeting with the lawyer go?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> Send her a single message that she stop or you will file a police report and get a RO against her for harassment.
> 
> BTW, how did the filing of the report and meeting with the lawyer go?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Believe it or not, my wife called her sister and told her it was inappropriate what she wrote and she shouldn't have done so.

I filed the police report but because the OM is out of state, they said I would need to speak with the FBI.

I talked with the lawyer some yesterday but I'm going back there this afternoon.

My wife is planning on moving out Wednesday even though we don't have an agreement in place. I told her the kids would not be going to her place until the agreement was finalized and she agreed with that. But she wants to still come over and see them like she's living there.

She still wants my consent for her retirement funds. Otherwise, she'll have no money. 

I also found out that her toxic friend that was advising her to leave me is the one that paid for the first month's rent and deposit on her place!! 

And now she's saying that the messages with the OM were nothing more than innocent flirtation. When I mentioned one specifically, where she said she thought of this person as perhaps more than a friend, she said that message didn't exist.

We had the talk with the kids last night. Everyone was crying and very emotional... except my wife. She was cold and emotionless. Not one tear. One of my daughter's called her out on it. The same daughter said she wasn't going anywhere with my wife and is refusing to leave the house and plans to live with me fulltime.


----------



## happyman64

And your wife has drawn the line in the sand. She is in full flight mode from the marriage.

This is a fight you cannot win. You have to let her go. You need to do a full 180 to help you pull away from her now.

She wants nothing to do with you or the marriage. She is in the fog. She is also more involved with the OM than you think. Especially if he is handing her $$$.

Do not give her any money than what she is entitled to. Do not make her exit from the family any easier for her. She needs to learn what being alone is really without you or the kids.

Do not sign for any money if you are going to take a hit financially.

Protect you. Protect your children. I know you are hurt. Your wife is very cold. Her walls are up against you and her children. That is very bad for your marriage.

Do the 180. Pull away from her to get your life back on track without her. You will be better off without her in your life right now.

She is lost to all of you. This is a sad situation and beyond your control right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Wives have come out of the fog before when tth reality bus runs over them. Here is the 180. While it is deigned for you to take your life back and move on, it also makes you more attractive. When your wife sees you standing up for yourself and your family she may want to come back. Of course you may not want her then.

The 180
April 15 2011 at 8:48 AM Ami (Login Amistandingstill)
Healing Moderator 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## Chaparral

I hope you have already closed joint accts etc. Your wife seems to be particularly vindictive. CHANGE YOUR LOCKS. Other posters have come home to houses that have been cleaned out. You don't have to give her furniture etc. with out a legal agreement I believe.


----------



## Shaggy

Refuse to sign the papers for the retirement funds. Access to them is only helping her run to the OM stand away from the marriage. Why would you help her do that? Yes she will be angry,but she is the one running to have the A after all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Believe it or not, my wife called her sister and told her it was inappropriate what she wrote and she shouldn't have done so.
> 
> I filed the police report but because the OM is out of state, they said I would need to speak with the FBI.
> 
> I talked with the lawyer some yesterday but I'm going back there this afternoon.
> 
> *My wife is planning on moving out Wednesday even though we don't have an agreement in place*. I told her the kids would not be going to her place until the agreement was finalized and she agreed with that. But she wants to still come over and see them like she's living there.
> 
> She still wants my consent for her retirement funds. Otherwise, she'll have no money.
> 
> I also found out that *her toxic friend that was advising her to leave me is the one that paid for the first month's rent and deposit on her place!! *
> 
> And *now she's saying that the messages with the OM were nothing more than innocent flirtation*. When I mentioned one specifically, where she said she thought of this person as perhaps more than a friend, she said that message didn't exist.
> 
> We had the talk with the kids last night. *Everyone was crying and very emotional... except my wife. She was cold and emotionless. Not one tear*. One of my daughter's called her out on it. The same daughter said she wasn't going anywhere with my wife and is refusing to leave the house and plans to live with me fulltime.


So if this was simply an innocent flirtation, then why is she practically running out of the house? Her actions confirm it is a hell of a lot more than that. IF it was an innocent flirtation, she should be devastated, throwing herself at your feet and going all out to try and save the marriage. You have your answer.

She's deep into the affair fog and wants to bang the OM without distractions. Don't finance her affair by signing. You need to make this as difficult for her as possible. Get the temporary custody order as soon as possible.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> So if this was simply an innocent flirtation, then why is she practically running out of the house? Her actions confirm it is a hell of a lot more than that. IF it was an innocent flirtation, * she should be devastated, throwing herself at your feet and going all out to try and save the marriage.* You have your answer.
> 
> She's deep into the affair fog and wants to bang the OM without distractions. Don't finance her affair by signing. You need to make this as difficult for her as possible. Get the temporary custody order as soon as possible.


She's the one that wanted this separation from the start, not me.

She's leaving willingly tomorrow without an agreement and without the kids. This woman has lost her mind. I would NEVER do that.


----------



## Chaparral

Can you gps her phone/car?


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> She's the one that wanted this separation from the start, not me.
> 
> She's leaving willingly tomorrow without an agreement and without the kids. This woman has lost her mind. I would NEVER do that.


That's how it usually happens. When they are in the affair, they can flush EVERYTHING down the drain, no matter how many years, no matter how many children, they can sacrifice it all for their affair. Much like a drug addict. Read the links for newbies.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> That's how it usually happens. When they are in the affair, they can flush EVERYTHING down the drain, no matter how many years, no matter how many children, they can sacrifice it all for their affair. Much like a drug addict. Read the links for newbies.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


She's leaving without the kids but wants to come to the house every night like normal and leave when they go to bed. I told her that wasn't happening. 

She's leaving today sometime, and I'm planning to change the locks tomorrow.


----------



## PBear

bmichael said:


> She's leaving without the kids but wants to come to the house every night like normal and leave when they go to bed. I told her that wasn't happening.
> 
> She's leaving today sometime, and I'm planning to change the locks tomorrow.


Have you talked to a lawyer about your plan? Not saying its wrong, or you shouldn't do it, but it may not be very effective at keeping her out of the house.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

PBear said:


> Have you talked to a lawyer about your plan? Not saying its wrong, or you shouldn't do it, but it may not be very effective at keeping her out of the house.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But it sure makes a statement and may work for awhile.


----------



## PBear

Well, scratching "WH0RE" across the side of her car would also be an effective way of getting his point across, but it would likely cause him grief down the road. All I'm saying is get proper legal advice before doing something that may come back to bite you in the @ss, so at least you're informed of the possible consequences.

In many areas and situations, the house is just as much hers as it is his. What if she decides to change the locks herself then? Or bring her OM over during the day when the OP isnt around. If they start escalating the animosities, it's just going to get nasty. What was that movie... War of The Roses?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

PBear said:


> Have you talked to a lawyer about your plan? Not saying its wrong, or you shouldn't do it, but it may not be very effective at keeping her out of the house.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm waiting to hear back from my lawyer before I go through with changing the locks.

My wife already doesn't want to help pay the mortgage even though her name is on the loan, and she's willingly leaving the house. As I see it, I have every right to change the locks if she doesn't want to live there anymore.

Boom. Just like that, my lawyer recommended that I change the locks as soon as she moves out.


----------



## morituri

Did your attorney also suggest that you request a temporary custody order so she won't be able to take the kids out of the home if she changes her mind?


----------



## bmichael

morituri said:


> Did your attorney also suggest that you request a temporary custody order so she won't be able to take the kids out of the home if she changes her mind?


Actually they didn't recommend that. They want me to continue to work on the agreement with my wife without involving lawyers which I'm doing. However, I can't trust my wife much right now.

The only good thing is my wife is so involved with school and it consumes so much of her time, there's never a moment when the kids are home that I'm not with them.


----------



## happyman64

I agree. Change the locks. If she walks she has no right to come and go as she pleases. 
You also need to be firm on the finances. If she is not being honest and is walking away from the marriage and the mortgage then you have all the answers you need.

I feel she has thought all this out. I also believe her A is more involved than just an EA.

Any mother who can walk away from the kids is going through a serious mental and emotional state. If she did not shed a tear I would move the separation along as fast as you can for your own peace of mind.

Maybe she will wake up, maybe she won't. Just her thinking she can see the kids everyday after moving out tells you she is not living in reality.

Stay strong. Focus on you and the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

Just an update...

Wife moved out on Wednesday. She was packing her crap when I got home from work that day. Took all her clothes and belongings and an air mattress to sleep on.

Yesterday she called and asked if she could come over and see the kids. I told her I didn't care as long as she was spending time with the kids and not doing school work, on her phone, or trying to argue with me.

She came over for two hours and just sat on the sofa while my kids played video games and were on the computer. Afterward she asked if she could take a sleeping bag because she was cold at her apartment. I said I didn't care even though i should have told her to freeze. Her attitude was very different while she was there. 

Haven't had time to change the locks yet. I'm going to tonight. I've already been approved for the refinancing on my house.

I have another meeting with the lawyer scheduled to get the custody order rolling. It keeps getting pushed because my lawyer keeps getting stuck in court.

Wife keeps asking about her retirement disbursement and I told her I wasn't doing or agreeing to anything until I spoke with my lawyer, that I was done playing games with her. She doesn't know that I'm doing a custody order.

She's planning to come back this weekend for some furniture that she got from her grandma. Hopefully she doesn't call, wanting to come over tonight because I'm going to be busy.


----------



## calif_hope

Bmichael,

It your home, she is a visitor, if she calls and you can't be present then tell her its not a good time.

Your home is not at her becken call anymore, she is a visitor and she shouldn't never be in your house without you present.

I suggest if you haven't started to is to log all your calls/texts/conversations with your wife...log everything....dates/times/topics/agreements etc.


----------



## bmichael

calif_hope said:


> Bmichael,
> 
> It your home, she is a visitor, if she calls and you can't be present then tell her its not a good time.
> 
> Your home is not at her becken call anymore, she is a visitor and she shouldn't never be in your house without you present.
> 
> I suggest if you haven't started to is to log all your calls/texts/conversations with your wife...log everything....dates/times/topics/agreements etc.


Absolutely. And I told her as much.

I've been saving every text msg and email she's sending me. And when she tries talking to me, I try to make sure my VAR is recording.


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## happyman64

Good for you. Keep your head.

The sleeping bag is no big deal. The fact she has nothing and is freezing just shows how pathetic her train of thought and reasoning are these days.

Stay strong and be smart.


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> Good for you. Keep your head.
> 
> The sleeping bag is no big deal. *The fact she has nothing and is freezing just shows how pathetic her train of thought and reasoning are these days.*
> 
> Stay strong and be smart.


Absoultely. Which is crazy because before all of this I thought my wife was extremely intelligent. This EA and the accompanied fog have made her look very juvenile and not very smart at all.


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## happyman64

When a persons self esteem is low and they are craving attention it is very easy for them to get lost in fantasy land. Their good judgement and loyalty go right out the window.

It is sad to watch someone you love and care about self destruct. There is nothing you can do to help her right now.

Take care of you. Work on your issues that put a dent on your marriage so no matter what happens you come out as a better person.

And love your kids more than ever. They are going to hurt just as badly as you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmichael

Got the paperwork rolling for a custody order on my kids. Wife should get served mid-week.


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## Beowulf

bmichael said:


> Got the paperwork rolling for a custody order on my kids. Wife should get served mid-week.


Good, maybe when she is physically holding the paperwork in her hands she will get a reality check.


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## happyman64

It is good. She needs to feel consequences for her actions. But I bet this will not slow her down from her full bug out boogey. 
Keep moving forward to secure the kids and your finances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

Good to hear it, bm. She will see that she isn't dealing with a classic cuckolded wimp, but someone who really means business.

I think of that old song by Nazareth: "Now you're messin' with a son of a *****"!


----------



## happyman64

And BM,

When she gets served with the custody order she is going to get mad. Do not let her turn it around on you.

Just deflect with "I am sorry you feel that way" or "You have stepped away from the marriage and our family so I need to protect the children".

Keep it simple and walk away or disengage.

Did you change the locks?

HM64


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> And BM,
> 
> When she gets served with the custody order she is going to get mad. Do not let her turn it around on you.
> 
> Just deflect with "I am sorry you feel that way" or "You have stepped away from the marriage and our family so I need to protect the children".
> 
> Keep it simple and walk away or disengage.
> 
> Did you change the locks?
> 
> HM64


The locks have been changed.

I already know what I'm going to say because I'm positive her reaction will be nuclear. I'm going to tell her that I'm doing what's in the best interests of our children.


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## bmichael

FBI has the threatening messages that the OM sent to me. They're going to be paying him a visit.


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## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> FBI has the threatening messages that the OM sent to me. They're going to be paying him a visit.


:smthumbup:

BTW, OM is such an idiot for emailing/sending threats that can given as evidence. Your WW sure tried to trade up alright.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> BTW, OM is such an idiot for emailing/sending threats that can given as evidence. Your WW sure tried to trade up alright.


My wife is such an idiot right now. Instead of coming and seeing the kids last night, she went out to a SB party with her friends.

Then this weekend, she's planning on staying with a classmate in order to study for a big exam she has on Monday. I'm sure she's lying, and we'll see if getting the custody order changes her plans.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Keep a journal of when she is supposed to be with children and where she went, see if you can get photos of her out at play. Every bit helps when it comes to custody battles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Just keep good records of her comings (no pun intended, wait a minute. If I said "no pun intended", doesn't that actually make people think that it is a pun?) and goings. Stay strong.


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## bmichael

I'm communicating with her strictly by email and text messages to make sure I have records of everything.


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## lordmayhem

Eli-Zor said:


> Keep a journal of when she is supposed to be with children and where she went, see if you can get photos of her out at play. Every bit helps when it comes to custody battles.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

My buddy's lawyer recommended the same exact thing. He now has full custody. It also helps that his WW posts all her exploits on facebook, even posted pictures of herself with drink in hand out with the friends.


----------



## bmichael

Looks like the wife will get served the court order tomorrow.


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## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> Looks like the wife will get served the court order tomorrow.


Be ready with a VAR and or a video recorder squirreled away when she goes nuclear.

Stay strong and be a good leadr. Do not let her instigate something you will regret. Hope FBI puts the screws to DocFingers. What did he threaten to do?

God luck to your family, hope your wife sees the light soon.


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Be ready with a VAR and or a video recorder squirreled away when she goes nuclear.
> 
> Stay strong and be a good leadr. Do not let her instigate something you will regret. Hope FBI puts the screws to DocFingers. What did he threaten to do?
> 
> God luck to your family, hope your wife sees the light soon.


I'm sure I'll know the second she gets the papers. I'm going to carry the VAR with me tomorrow. I don't plan to engage her at all, only to tell her that I'm doing what's best for the kids since she's walked away from the marriage and family and if she has any questions, she can contact my attorney.

The doc said he had friends in the FBI and pentagon and could mess up my credit report and banking info. He also said he would shoot me with his 9mm. Locked and loaded. What an idiot.

FBI said it was a legitimate threat, and I'm just waiting to hear back from them.

I let her come over today and visit with the kids, and once again, she spent most of the time just sitting on the sofa and not doing much. Kids barely noticed she was there.


----------



## Chaparral

Stay strong, I actually feel sorry for your wife. She has completely screwed up hers and a lot od other peoples lives.


----------



## warlock07

The OM over reaction makes me think that he is freaked out about something coming out in the open. Either that or he is an utter idiot. Does the wife know?


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> The OM over reaction makes me think that he is freaked out about something coming out in the open. Either that or he is an utter idiot. Does the wife know?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Of course, that depends on how OP set him off. lol


----------



## bmichael

warlock07 said:


> The OM over reaction makes me think that he is freaked out about something coming out in the open. Either that or he is an utter idiot. Does the wife know?


My wife knows he sent me the messages. I showed them to her.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> The doc said he had friends in the FBI and pentagon and could mess up my credit report and banking info. He also said he would shoot me with his 9mm. Locked and loaded. What an idiot.
> 
> FBI said it was a legitimate threat, and I'm just waiting to hear back from them.


Ah, the psycho OM with friends in the FBI and Pentagon no less, and a 9mm on top of that. What kind of doctor is he? And he sent these threats via email or something? Either he's pyscho, or dumb for a doctor.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> Ah, the psycho OM with friends in the FBI and Pentagon no less, and a 9mm on top of that. What kind of doctor is he? And he sent these threats via email or something? Either he's pyscho, or dumb for a doctor.


Family practice believe it or not.

And yes, this idiot emailed the threats to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Family practice believe it or not.
> 
> And yes, this idiot emailed the threats to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wonder how his lawyer is going to spin that one. His lawyer must be doing the facepalm. :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

lordmayhem said:


> I wonder how his lawyer is going to spin that one. His lawyer must be doing the facepalm. :lol:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What does your lawyer say? I smell a righteous lawsuit.


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> What does your lawyer say? I smell a righteous lawsuit.


We haven't discussed it yet since we're focusing on the custody. 

I'm already planning to sue the doctor for alienation of affections along with my wife's toxic friend that interferred. Both of them doctors.


----------



## calif_hope

What did your wife have to say about the threats and law enforcement getting involved ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Got the paperwork rolling for a custody order on my kids. Wife should get served mid-week.


Wow, talking about lightning quick action. Is your lawyer chummy with a judge or something? Pretty quick to get the paperwork rolling on a Sunday and then getting her served on Wednesday of the same week. Wasn't she supposed to move out on Wednesday?


----------



## bmichael

calif_hope said:


> What did your wife have to say about the threats and law enforcement getting involved ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She didn't really say much about it, and I haven't discussed it with her since I met with the FBI.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> She didn't really say much about it, and I haven't discussed it with her since I met with the FBI.


Then don't. They usually try to protect their affair partner. You don't really need her contacting him to give him a heads up.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> Wow, talking about lightning quick action. Is your lawyer chummy with a judge or something? Pretty quick to get the paperwork rolling on a Sunday and then getting her served on Wednesday of the same week. Wasn't she supposed to move out on Wednesday?


Paperwork was started late last week, and she's supposed to get served today.

She moved out last Wednesday.


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## Chaparral

How is it going ? Are you taking care of yourself? Do you have help with the six kids? What about your anger issues? 

Does your wife show any signs of regret? I'm shocked that she doesn't miss her kids more. 

How is she paying for college and rent etc.? My apologies if you have already answered that.


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> How is it going ? Are you taking care of yourself? Do you have help with the six kids? What about your anger issues?
> 
> Does your wife show any signs of regret? I'm shocked that she doesn't miss her kids more.
> 
> How is she paying for college and rent etc.? My apologies if you have already answered that.


It's going okay and I'm doing alright. I've been working out and I've lost 25 lbs. I don't have any help with the kids, I'm on my own but I've been raising them pretty much on my own while my wife's been in school.

I'm in IC to work on my anger issues and it's going good.

Haven't noticed any signs of regret from my wife at all. I have no idea how she could have moved out and left the kids behind. I could never do that.

I don't know how she's paying for anything right now. She gets college loans every few months but I know her most recent loan amount is gone. She wanted me to sign her retirement disbursement and I refused. I also dropped her from my insurance to save some money. 

She's on her own. She made her bed and now she can sleep in it.


----------



## bandit.45

> Haven't noticed any signs of regret from my wife at all. I have no idea how she could have moved out and left the kids behind. I could never do that.


She's evil. That's why. Thank God your kids have you.


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> She's evil. That's why. Thank God your kids have you.


Yup. Just learned that hard lesson tonight. Left enough funds in the joint account to pay for my kids day care. Guess what happened?


----------



## bandit.45

> Yup. Just learned that hard lesson tonight. Left enough funds in the joint account to pay for my kids day care. Guess what happened?


You gotta be kidding me?!!


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> Yup. Just learned that hard lesson tonight. Left enough funds in the joint account to pay for my kids day care. Guess what happened?


Unfortunately, you were warned on the first page of your thread this could happen. Does she have any credit cards with your name on it? Remember, she is desperate and can rationalize anything now because you are the bad guy. If you have any valuables in the house you had better hide them new locks or not. Posters have come home to having the furniture and more missing.

Has your lawyer protected you from any debts she will incur?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Unfortunately, you were warned on the first page of your thread this could happen. Does she have any credit cards with your name on it? Remember, she is desperate and can rationalize anything now because you are the bad guy. If you have any valuables in the house you had better hide them new locks or not. Posters have come home to having the furniture and more missing.
> 
> Has your lawyer protected you from any debts she will incur?


Foolish of me to think she wouldn't touch money that was supposed to be for the kids.

She doesn't have anything else that can hurt me financially.


----------



## Shaggy

bmichael said:


> Foolish of me to think she wouldn't touch money that was supposed to be for the kids.
> 
> She doesn't have anything else that can hurt me financially.


Could she open a new CC ? And would you be responsible for 1/2 or that debt?


----------



## calif_hope

If she left any valuables in the house, take them to a pawn shop..............
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

Wife might have been served.

Her lawyer left a voicemail with my lawyer. They're discussing the case now.


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## F-102

bmichael said:


> Yup. Just learned that hard lesson tonight. Left enough funds in the joint account to pay for my kids day care. Guess what happened?


I'm sure a divorce judge would just LOVE to get this little tidbit of information.


----------



## bmichael

F-102 said:


> I'm sure a divorce judge would just LOVE to get this little tidbit of information.


I have it in the journal I'm keeping, along with her leaving me and the kids in the house willingly, her going out with her friends instead of spending time with the kids after I offered, and her coming over and falling asleep while she was supposed to be with the kids.

Plus the fact that she's living off student loans, going to school full time, and that I've been the main care provider for years now...

She's an idiot to challenge this.


----------



## bmichael

Wow... she got served and she's going ballistic! I've never seen her going this crazy with threats and demands.

Says she's coming over tomorrow and is going to take the kids from the house while I'm at work... this is nuts!


----------



## Shaggy

bmichael said:


> Wow... she got served and she's going ballistic! I've never seen her going this crazy with threats and demands.
> 
> Says she's coming over tomorrow and is going to take the kids from the house while I'm at work... this is nuts!


Dude why can't you just let her have everything her way? Your not supportive of her.

In all seriousness her rraction shows thar you have made the very best choice possible. She was sure the decisions and world revolved around her, and you have then back control. Well done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

bmichael said:


> Wow... she got served and she's going ballistic! I've never seen her going this crazy with threats and demands.
> 
> Says she's coming over tomorrow and is going to take the kids from the house while I'm at work... this is nuts!


Is the temporary custody in place? If it is, then she cannot take the kids with her because that would be in violation of the order. File a police report stating that your stbxw threaten to take the children away from the home in violation of the temporary custody order. If she's foolish enough to do this, then she is going to be in a lot of deep sh!t and she may end up losing any chance of shared custody later on.


----------



## bmichael

morituri said:


> Is the temporary custody in place? If it is, then she cannot take the kids with her because that would be in violation of the order. File a police report stating that your stbxw threaten to take the children away from the home in violation of the temporary custody order. If she's foolish enough to do this, then she is going to be in a lot of deep sh!t and she may end up losing any chance of shared custody later on.


There isn't a temporary custody order. The state of NC will only let you file one if there's an immediate danger to the lives of the children. I tried.

She was served and notifed that I was pursuing full primary custody and she's lost her mind over it.


----------



## Chaparral

So she is saying she is going to come and take them away from you? Keep your video and VAR handy, Don't let her in. Call the police if she comes.


----------



## happyman64

bmichael,

I know your situation sucks. Your wife is acting crazy.

Serving her for full custody is the right thing to do. What the hell did she expect.

*
She abandons you.
She abandons the kids.
She abandons the marriage.
She moves out.
She is living the single life.
She has one or two OM and a girlfriend that are supporting her behavior.
You had to go to the FBI to protect yourself.
*And sadly you could show her all of these points and she would not feel bad or remorseful for any of her actions.

Time to not let her in the house. Secure your kids and hang on with both hands.

It will get worse before it gets better but you are doing the right thing protecting your children.

Take care of yourself as best you can. What a selfish woman she has become.

You are doing the right thing and she left you no choice. Of course waywards never see it that way.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Take the day off, I am sure your boss would understand why. Then wait and have your VAR ready. Let her go crazy, taping the whole thing. It will be more evidence of her imbalanced mental state.


----------



## Shaggy

Do not hesitate to call the police if she comes over and acts nasty. Even if it's just swearing etc, if she is really angry call the cops.

Make sure you have a VAR on you at all times. ALL times.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Indeed get the VAR do not underestimate a wayward they will lie.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mrs. T

bmichael said:


> Wow... she got served and she's going ballistic! I've never seen her going this crazy with threats and demands.
> 
> Says she's coming over tomorrow and is going to take the kids from the house while I'm at work... this is nuts!


Amazing turnaround on her part. She turned her back on her kids and walked away and now all of a sudden they have become important to her again, or is the real issue the fact that you are fighting for them and she can't bear to have you win the fight...


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> There isn't a temporary custody order. The state of NC will only let you file one if there's an immediate danger to the lives of the children. I tried.
> 
> She was served and notifed that I was pursuing full primary custody and she's lost her mind over it.


Reality bites.


----------



## F-102

She probably had the epiphany of: "Hey...if I get custody of the kids, I will get MORE MONEY out of this jackass who dared to stand in the way of my true happiness!"


----------



## jnj express

Couple of things---you do know that half of your wife's retirement is yours---the retirement is community property

Also you may be stuck for half of her student loan payback, also due to community property

Also along with alienation of affection, file suit for criminal conversation---that tort is also still on the books in N C

You should also report, and give the evidence to the state medical boards where these doctors, who screwed up your mge., have their practice.


----------



## Eli-Zor

jnj express said:


> Couple of things---you do know that half of your wife's retirement is yours---the retirement is community property
> 
> Also you may be stuck for half of her student loan payback, also due to community property
> 
> Also along with alienation of affection, file suit for criminal conversation---that tort is also still on the books in N C
> 
> You should also report, and give the evidence to the state medical boards where these doctors, who screwed up your mge., have their practice.


Good advice all round .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Isn't North Carolina a Fault and "Alienation of Affection" state? What has your attorney said regarding bringing up charges of adultery and the kind of proof needed to make them stick?


----------



## bmichael

morituri said:


> Isn't North Carolina a Fault and "Alienation of Affection" state? What has your attorney said regarding bringing up charges of adultery and the kind of proof needed to make them stick?


We're pursuing the alienation of affections against both doctors for their interference. One of them supplied her with the funds to move into her apartment.


----------



## bmichael

A shining example of how far my wife has fallen...

I'm cleaning up her former desk at the house, tossing out all the garbage she's let build up. Looking under the desk, tossing away papers and I find her father's bracelet.

Her father died in 07 from liver cancer and it affected her very badly. Before he passed, he wrote "remember the good times..." on a slip of paper and she always carried it around with her. After he died, she took the slip of paper and had the words engraved, in his handwriting, onto the bracelet which I just found.


----------



## Complexity

It always struck me how cheating spouses who are stuck in the fog tend to resemble junkies. Anything and everything they ever cared about means nothing to them.


----------



## Chaparral

She's a student, send her some of the research on the chemical, addictive nature of drug addiction and an affair. One of the reasons you want controlling custody.

BTW hasn't she been in school an awfully long time?

Is your wife in her mid thirties?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> She's a student, send her some of the research on the chemical, addictive nature of drug addiction and an affair. One of the reasons you want controlling custody.
> 
> BTW hasn't she been in school an awfully long time?
> 
> Is your wife in her mid thirties?


I've thought about sending her a bunch of research material like that but figured in the state she's in she'd cast it aside like she has everything else.

My wife is 33. She went back to school 5 years ago and got her bachleors. She's in a PA program now.


----------



## happyman64

Send her the bracelet. Not the reference material.

The bracelet sends a message. She knows her father would be disappointed by her actions. Probably why it was on the floor.

Sadly, her whole life has lost any meaning.

Stay strong and take care of your family BMichael. I hope your attorney kicks all their butts.


----------



## morituri

happyman64 said:


> Send her the bracelet. Not the reference material.
> 
> The bracelet sends a message. She knows her father would be disappointed by her actions. Probably why it was on the floor.
> 
> Sadly, her whole life has lost any meaning.
> 
> Stay strong and take care of your family BMichael. I hope your attorney kicks all their butts.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

It will definitely strike a nerve.


----------



## Beowulf

happyman64 said:


> Send her the bracelet. Not the reference material.
> 
> The bracelet sends a message. She knows her father would be disappointed by her actions. Probably why it was on the floor.
> 
> Sadly, her whole life has lost any meaning.
> 
> Stay strong and take care of your family BMichael. I hope your attorney kicks all their butts.


And make sure she knows that you found it discarded on the floor like it meant nothing.


----------



## bmichael

Tuesday is the 5 year anniversary of her father's death. It'd be a good day for her to get it.


----------



## Beowulf

bmichael said:


> Tuesday is the 5 year anniversary of her father's death. It'd be a good day for her to get it.


Send her a short note.

"I found this discarded on the floor the other day while cleaning up the house. I thought you might like to have this since I realize that this may be an emotional time for you."

Don't tell her what the emotional time is though. See if she can figure it out by herself. If she doesn't then you know how far gone in the fog she really is.


----------



## Initfortheduration

I think it would be even more moving, if he just sent the engraving on a note with the bracelet. Her fathers words should be enough, that way she can't say he was trying to manipulate her with his words. If she says anything, like why would you send it to me? Tell her that it seemed to mean a lot to her at the time. Now is the time for a direct shot to the conscience. Tell her you found it disgarded, next to her marriage vows and everything else she once found important.


----------



## bmichael

Got more hate mail yesterday. This time from my wife's best friend. It's amazing the nasty comments that come out when something like this happens. To think, I'm her daugther's godfather, too.


----------



## bandit.45

> Got more hate mail yesterday. This time from my wife's best friend. It's amazing the nasty comments that come out when something like this happens. To think, I'm her daugther's godfather, too.


Does she know about your wife's affairs? Or does she know and condone them?

I expect to lose alot of friends now that I have kicked my wife out and filing for D. 

Don't sweat it.... Now you know she was never really your friend.


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> Does she know about your wife's affairs? Or does she know and condone them?
> 
> I expect to lose alot of friends now that I have kicked my wife out and filing for D.
> 
> Don't sweat it.... Now you know she was never really your friend.


She's one of the ones I exposed the EA too. She's telling me that regardless of that, my marriage was over beforehand because of my actions... trash like that.

I told her to make sure I wasn't her kid's godparent anymore.


----------



## bandit.45

> She's one of the ones I exposed the EA too. She's telling me that regardless of that, my marriage was over beforehand because of my actions... trash like that.
> 
> I told her to make sure I wasn't her kid's godparent anymore.


Good riddance. Sounds like your wife runs with the Jersey Shore crowd. 

Does this hag even acknowledge that you are raising 6 children by yourself? My, you are such a selfish prick!

Nice thing about divorce is it weeds the fairweather friends out of your life. I can't wait to lose some of the friend baggage I have been forced to carry around for my STBXW's sake.


----------



## warlock07

Don't indulge in the hate speech and drop to their level. Say thank you and don't reply back. Divorces are ugly , you don't need more drama


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> Good riddance. Sounds like your wife runs with the Jersey Shore crowd.
> 
> *Does this hag even acknowledge that you are raising 6 children by yourself? My, you are such a selfish prick!*
> 
> Nice thing about divorce is it weeds the fairweather friends out of your life. I can't wait to lose some of the friend baggage I have been forced to carry around for my STBXW's sake.


No one in my wife's corner is acknowledging anything I've done for my kids the past five years while my wife's been in school, or the fact that I'm still at the house taking care of them after my wife walked out and got her apartment. I expected as much.

I'm just the bad guy now who's hurting because my wife's leaving and I'm using the kids as revenge for her EA.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

bmichael said:


> No one in my wife's corner is acknowledging anything I've done for my kids the past five years while my wife's been in school, or the fact that I'm still at the house taking care of them after my wife walked out and got her apartment. I expected as much.
> 
> I'm just the bad guy now who's hurting because my wife's leaving and I'm using the kids as revenge for her EA.


Clearly, you are history's second greatest monster (right after the idiot who green-lighted New Coke).

Stay strong and do the right thing by you. Don't stoop to their level. Be the right kind of man and conduct yourself in a way that you can proudly stand behind if your kids find out.


----------



## bmichael

Now she's asking if the kids can stay overnight with her tonight because today is the anniversary of her father's death... trying to play the guilt card, I guess.


----------



## bandit.45

Did you send her the bracelet?


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> Did you send her the bracelet?


No, I didn't send it. I knew I was going to see her today because of kids and planned to just give it to her or something.


----------



## Beowulf

bmichael said:


> She's one of the ones I exposed the EA too. She's telling me that regardless of that, my marriage was over beforehand because of my actions... trash like that.
> 
> I told her to make sure I wasn't her kid's godparent anymore.


Is she married? I wonder how her husband would feel if he knew she was condoning your wife's affair?


----------



## bmichael

Beowulf said:


> Is she married? I wonder how her husband would feel if he knew she was condoning your wife's affair?


Yes, she's married and I know they've had problems as well. 

It's not surprising that everyone in my wife's support group has been married multiple times or had relationship problems.


----------



## Beowulf

bmichael said:


> Yes, she's married and I know they've had problems as well.
> 
> It's not surprising that everyone in my wife's support group has been married multiple times or had relationship problems.


I would nonchalantly let him know of his wife's attitude and that he should keep an eye on her.


----------



## Beowulf

bmichael said:


> Now she's asking if the kids can stay overnight with her tonight because today is the anniversary of her father's death... trying to play the guilt card, I guess.


Keep running the 180. You're trying to detach from her, not snap to attention whenever she calls for you.

Edit: Tell her you have a date.


----------



## bmichael

This is her exact email to me:

"I just want to let you know that I don’t have class tomorrow until 10am. I would really appreciate if you would allow the kids to stay the night tonight. Especially with what today represents for them and me with my father’s passing. I won’t push for Thursday night. Thank you and I hope you reconsider."

Extremely different from the venom she spewed at me earlier or the hate her "BFF" slung my way last night.

And still no mention of the bracelet.


----------



## bmichael

Gave her the bracelet. Told her I found it under the desk amongst some trash.

All she had to say was she had been looking for it.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Got more hate mail yesterday. This time from my wife's best friend. It's amazing the nasty comments that come out when something like this happens. To think, I'm her daugther's godfather, too.


That's usually how it goes, the WW/WH usually has at least one Toxic Friend (TF) that enables the affair, not all the time, but a good percentage of the time from the stories seen here. You're the monster that drove her to this. 

You know the truth. Go NC with these losers also.


----------



## warlock07

I would suggest not to turn this into a hate fest. Don't enable her but don't go out of your way to spite her.


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> I would suggest not to turn this into a hate fest. Don't enable her but don't go out of your way to spite her.


Exactly, play nice but strong. Reread the 180. All your wife should see is how great you are doing and how you are improving yourself and moving quickly forward with out her. You need to show her you are protecting the family and everyone is going to get along great with or without her. Have you been taking the kids on lots of fun things? School ballgames, hobbies, pizza, swimming, shopping etc.etc.etc. You should be having a good time that she should be envious of.


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Exactly, play nice but strong. Reread the 180. All your wife should see is how great you are doing and how you are improving yourself and moving quickly forward with out her. You need to show her you are protecting the family and everyone is going to get along great with or without her. Have you been taking the kids on lots of fun things? School ballgames, hobbies, pizza, swimming, shopping etc.etc.etc. You should be having a good time that she should be envious of.


Putting plans together now to take them somewhere this weekend.


----------



## happyman64

Good for you Bmichael. 

Have fun with the kids. 

Your WW is acting crazy one minute and nice the next.

Do not let her make you crazy in the process!!!


----------



## bmichael

Found out yesterday that my wife plans to shave her head for some event next month to support finding a cure for cancer.

It's a good cause, but it just seems like another desperate attempt to get attention.


----------



## bandit.45

bmichael said:


> Found out yesterday that my wife plans to shave her head for some event next month to support finding a cure for cancer.
> 
> It's a good cause, but it just seems like another desperate attempt to get attention.


Too bad you can't have sex with her. I've always wanted to bang a bald woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

As long as it is her hair and not the kids then let her do what she wants.

You already know she is crazy!!!


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> As long as it is her hair and not the kids then let her do what she wants.
> 
> You already know she is crazy!!!


I don't care what she does about anything. Her mental instability becomes more evident every time I hear more about what she's saying and doing.


----------



## happyman64

It still is scary when you see what she is doing and what her thought processes are these days.

Keep on your attorneys back.

Move the process forward. Protect the kids as best as you can.


----------



## Almostrecovered

bandit.45 said:


> Too bad you can't have sex with her. I've always wanted to bang a bald woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Awesome!! I doubt the OP's wife is that hot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TallE

Is that Lt. Ilia from ST the motion picture? :rofl:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090531185735/memoryalpha/en/images/2/26/Ilia.jpg


----------



## Almostrecovered

TallE said:


> Is that Lt. Ilia from ST the motion picture? :rofl:
> 
> http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090531185735/memoryalpha/en/images/2/26/Ilia.jpg


did your nerd radar go off?


----------



## Beowulf

Almostrecovered said:


> did your nerd radar go off?


Mine did. I'm glad I still have it.


----------



## Chaparral

Going to school and shaving her head, hmmmm...............Mid life crisis


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> Awesome!! I doubt the OP's wife is that hot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife is a beautiful woman. She may get some attention but once they find out she has six kids, I don't think any of that attention will last.


----------



## morituri

bandit.45 said:


> I've always wanted to bang a bald woman.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And when you finally become a single man, you can then bang as many follicle challenged females as your body allows you to.


----------



## bandit.45

> My wife is a beautiful woman.


Yeah and she knows it. That's her problem. Same way with my wife.

I'm beginning to buy into the notion that my wife is a narcissist. That may be what your wife's problem is. If that's the case there is probably not much hope for her.


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah and she knows it. That's her problem. Same way with my wife.
> 
> I'm beginning to buy into the notion that my wife is a narcissist. That may be what your wife's problem is. If that's the case there is probably not much hope for her.


Yeah, she's surrounded by people that have helped contribute to her swollen ego...

Took my oldest daughter out to dinner last night. She noticed my wife stopped wearing her wedding rings the last time they saw each other and asked her about it. My wife said she couldn't wear them after getting the court order because she was so hurt by it.

I guess I should toss mine in the trash since I've been so hurt that she can't even admit to her EA still.


----------



## bandit.45

No, keep yours and ask her to give hers back to you. She does not deserve to keep them. Hock them all and save the money for a rainy day.


----------



## Beowulf

bandit.45 said:


> No, keep yours and ask her to give hers back to you. She does not deserve to keep them. Hock them all and save the money for a rainy day.


or ask for hers back and tell her that you need them for the new Mrs. bmichael


----------



## bmichael

Beowulf said:


> or ask for hers back and tell her that you need them for the new Mrs. bmichael


She refused to give them to me. Said she was keeping them for the kids.


----------



## sisters359

Just to clarify: you were verbally abusive to your wife for years and now you want to punish her for having lost all feeling for you?

You skate right over this issue: "I yell a lot. . ." Really? You just yell? Or did you say mean and ugly things while yelling, too? 

It is so disappointing that all people see here is the cheating--without realizing that this man was abusive and his wife lived the cycle of abuse. 

She had no right to cheat--but he has no right to deprive her of her children b/c she finally broke down, made some dumb-ass decisions--for once, it was her acting emotionally. So all of the sudden he gets to be the "victim" after how he treated her for years? 

There's a whole lot more to this story than the OP revealed, and everyone is willing to play along b/c "she cheated." He's not trying to protect his marriage--he wants his victim back. Geez, dude, let her go and do the right thing--so what if you've been the primary parent for 5 years? Who was it all those years before that? Split custody 50/50, quit traumatizing your kids b/c you got cheated on, and work on yourself. 

Years of abuse will make people do crazy, "unlike them" things.


----------



## morituri

> It is so disappointing that all people see here is the cheating--without realizing that this man was abusive and his wife lived the cycle of abuse.


This forum is titled *Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.*' is it not? Infidelity is a form of abuse.



sisters359 said:


> Years of abuse will make people do crazy, "unlike them" things.


Still no excuse for blowing up her marriage by having an EA. Only after her ego got stroked by another man did she suddenly find the courage to want a separation.

I do agree with you that no matter what happens, he needs to let go of the anger and bitterness in his heart otherwise it will poison his life and the lives of those he loves the most, his children.


----------



## 67flh

can't figure out why your stbxw would wanna give a tainted ring to your kids? that's like wishing them bad luck in their marriage.


----------



## bmichael

sisters359 said:


> Just to clarify: you were verbally abusive to your wife for years and now you want to punish her for having lost all feeling for you?
> 
> You skate right over this issue: "I yell a lot. . ." Really? You just yell? Or did you say mean and ugly things while yelling, too?
> 
> It is so disappointing that all people see here is the cheating--without realizing that this man was abusive and his wife lived the cycle of abuse.
> 
> She had no right to cheat--but he has no right to deprive her of her children b/c she finally broke down, made some dumb-ass decisions--for once, it was her acting emotionally. So all of the sudden he gets to be the "victim" after how he treated her for years?
> 
> There's a whole lot more to this story than the OP revealed, and everyone is willing to play along b/c "she cheated." He's not trying to protect his marriage--he wants his victim back. Geez, dude, let her go and do the right thing--so what if you've been the primary parent for 5 years? Who was it all those years before that? Split custody 50/50, quit traumatizing your kids b/c you got cheated on, and work on yourself.
> 
> Years of abuse will make people do crazy, "unlike them" things.


I've never been abusive. Even my wife would tell you that. When I've gotten angry, I do have a tendency to yell or get loud. This usually happened or was the result of my wife just sitting there and not contributing anything to the family.

The past five years I have pretty much raised my kids by myself. Before that, we raised them together while working different shifts.

You're drawing the wrong conclusions from my post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

morituri said:


> This forum is titled *Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.*' is it not? Infidelity is a form of abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> Still no excuse for blowing up her marriage by having an EA. Only after her ego got stroked by another man did she suddenly find the courage to want a separation.
> 
> I do agree with you that no matter what happens, he needs to let go of the anger and bitterness in his heart otherwise it will poison his life and the lives of those he loves the most, his children.


She didn't even tell me she wanted a divorce until I confronted her about her strange behavior (distance from the family, constant texting).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

You don't need to defend yourself B. There are some posters on this board who come from the entitled, Desperate Housewives mindset that men should never act like men and any masculine behavior should be supressed. I have seen nothing in your thread that would indicate that you are nothing less than a decent hardworking father who has been jilted by a hapless, immoral wayward wife. Do not apologize for who you are. 

Stay strong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

bandit.45 said:


> You don't need to defend yourself B. There are some posters on this board who come from the entitled, Desperate Housewives mindset that men should never act like men and any masculine behavior should be supressed. I have seen nothing in your thread that would indicate that you are nothing less than a decent hardworking father who has been jilted by a hapless, immoral wayward wife. Do not apologize for who you are.
> 
> Stay strong.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My husband is loud, yells and says hurtful things. He is verbally abusive. He's been working on that for a year. At it's worse, when I was deciding to stay or go, firstly, if I left, it would be for me not someone else and if my reason for leaving was the the abuse, I'd sure as hell take my kids with me. Sorry - I don't buy the - poor baby, she left because he was so abusive - crap. Just another excuse for piss-poor behaviour and it sounds like WW has enough of those.

Bandit - not 'responding to you, but sisters post - just 'replied' on last entry. I agree with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

There is a gulf of difference between a man raising his voice in anger and frustration because his wife is unresponsive and unwilling to work with him to repair the relationship. This in and of itself does not constitute abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## golfergirl

bandit.45 said:


> There is a gulf of difference between a man raising his voice in anger and frustration because his wife is unresponsive and unwilling to work with him to repair the relationship. This in and of itself does not constitute abuse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree - not wanting to hi-jack this thread, but let's just say based on my personal battle, I agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

Wife wanted me to call her to discuss our 14 year old who refuses to see my wife at all.

Wife got very emotional when I stood my firm ground and said I wouldn't force our daughter to see her. That she was old enough to make up her mind. My wife slipped, or whatever and called me "honey". Very weird.


----------



## golfergirl

bmichael said:


> Wife wanted me to call her to discuss our 14 year old who refuses to see my wife at all.
> 
> Wife got very emotional when I stood my firm ground and said I wouldn't force our daughter to see her. That she was old enough to make up her mind. My wife slipped, or whatever and called me "honey". Very weird.


Could be slip - could be trying to soften you to get her own way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

golfergirl said:


> Could be slip - could be trying to soften you to get her own way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know how you slip when she says her feelings for me are dead.


----------



## morituri

Of course you should not force your daughter to see her mom but you would be negligent in your duties as a father if you were not to engage your daughter in conversation so she can feel emotionally supported by you during this very hard time for her. Remind her that harboring anger and bitterness towards her mother will only poison her life and how she must make every effort to remove them so she can live a happy and healthy life.


----------



## bmichael

morituri said:


> Of course you should not force your daughter to see her mom but you would be negligent in your duties as a father if you were not to engage your daughter in conversation so she can feel emotionally supported by you during this very hard time for her. Remind her that harboring anger and bitterness towards her mother will only poison her life and how she must make every effort to remove them so she can live a happy and healthy life.


I have had multiple conversations with my daughter in regards to her feelings and have actually encouraged her to spend time with my wife. I just don't think it's right to force her, and I'm afraid if I do, it will only build more anger and resentment toward my wife, and me for that matter.


----------



## morituri

The point of the conversations with your daughter should not be to manipulate her to reach out to her mother but to conquer those destructive emotions, anger and bitterness, that will poison her future happiness. If they lead to a reconnection between mother and daughter, then so be it.


----------



## bandit.45

Is your daughter in any kind of counseling. If not, will your insurance cover it? Can you get her in to see someone?


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> Is your daughter in any kind of counseling. If not, will your insurance cover it? Can you get her in to see someone?


I have a couple of kids that definitely need counseling given the situation...

At my next session of IC, I plan to see if he can either see them or if he can recommend someone.


----------



## Chaparral

Their mother left them too. I don't know, but I think that would hurt worse than being the betrayed spouse and we know how bad that is.


----------



## happyman64

Stay strong BMichael. 

Your WW slipped. She slipped out of the marriage. She slipped away from you and the kids. She has slipped out of reality.

I hope she wakes up someday and realizes her kids need her. All of her, not her sitting next to them while texting or spending quality time with the docs.

Just stay strong for you, your kids and your values...


----------



## bmichael

Had a good counseling session this morning. He's willing to take on my kids as well.


----------



## bmichael

Please tell me I'm not the only one that has these up and down emotions that go all over the place.

I'm doing the 180 but some days I find myself crying even though my feelings for my wife are just about dead. Why am I upset over someone that has betrayed me?


----------



## inmygut

It is normal to experience grief over a loss. it takes time to work through the process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

bmichael said:


> Please tell me I'm not the only one that has these up and down emotions that go all over the place.
> 
> I'm doing the 180 but some days I find myself crying even though my feelings for my wife are just about dead. Why am I upset over someone that has betrayed me?


_You are not alone, the up, down all around is completly normal. At first I thought I was gonna go insane and was alone with these feelings until I read all over TAM...you will get thru it.. 

You loved her why wouldnt you be so upset over someone that betrrayed you._


----------



## Initfortheduration

bmichael said:


> Please tell me I'm not the only one that has these up and down emotions that go all over the place.
> 
> I'm doing the 180 but some days I find myself crying even though my feelings for my wife are just about dead. Why am I upset over someone that has betrayed me?


Even though your feelings for you wife have gone. You still need time to grieve the loss. You are walking through a doorway. And you're walking through it alone. You are suppose to have your wife with you, but you have moved on anyway. Crying is good.

As an example, I remember when my son was Is 4th grade. He was bullied mercilessly by another kid (school did nothing). So my son almost choked him into unconsciousness. He was suspended for 3 days. When I picked him up from school and went home. I went out on the back patio and cried. My son asked me "why are you crying?" Then I told him that his actions effect other people. I told him that we are moving through a doorway. On the other side, I won't be able to protect you from the decisions you make. When these changes happen, I grieve. I don't try to hold on to what is past. This way I feel I am living real and will limit my regrets later in life. Just a personal philosophy.

Just remember, don't cry in front of her, but it is ok to cry in front of the kids. It shows them there is nothing wrong with showing emotions amongst those who love you.


----------



## bandit.45

> Please tell me I'm not the only one that has these up and down emotions that go all over the place.
> 
> I'm doing the 180 but some days I find myself crying even though my feelings for my wife are just about dead. Why am I upset over someone that has betrayed me?


I cry every night.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> Please tell me I'm not the only one that has these up and down emotions that go all over the place.
> 
> I'm doing the 180 but some days I find myself crying even though my feelings for my wife are just about dead. Why am I upset over someone that has betrayed me?


The emotional roller coaster ride is a b!tch in the beginning, but later on as you heal, the dips begin to flatten out. Hang in there.


----------



## gonefishin

happyman64 said:


> Bmichael,
> Do not make her wanting to separate or leave easy. She is just running as fast as she can from the marriage.
> Do not sign anything regarding the money. Talk to an accountant. Then talk to an attorney. Otherwise she is going to leave you holding all the bills.
> 
> Go straight to a divorce. Do not bother with a separation. That is her idea so she can sit on a fence for a year to have fun while you sit at home babysitting your kids.
> 
> Call her out now. She wants a divorce. Fine. Go see an attorney and work out a custody arrangement. Do not waiver.
> 
> Let her see what she is going to lose.
> 
> Stop talking about you wanting to R when all she wants to do is run away from you, your kids and your marriage.
> 
> Go full steam ahead, do the 180 to get your head on straight and show her you have no fear.
> 
> If she still goes with the divorce then you have your answer and you will have saved yourself one year of heartbreak. You will also be one year ahead of no drama and year closer to finding a woman that shares your ideals of marriage loves a lot of kids too.
> 
> Be strong, be brave and call her bluff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree! This is your best approach. She has been driving this bus, it is time that you take over. Flush this thing out. Do not sign anything until your speak with an attorney.


----------



## bmichael

Thanks for the support.

I think part of my problem is my best buddy, my 7 yr old son, fell asleep at his mom's last night so she decided to keep him over night. This is the first time that has happeend as he's always came back home after visiting.

I guess he woke up in the middle of the night scared to death and crying and my wife had a hard time calming him down.


----------



## happyman64

BMichael,

Your situation sucks not just for you but the kids. 

Of course your 7 year old woke up crying. You are his rock. He probably thought you abandoned him like your wife has done. 

You will be your kid's foundation. Not your wayward wife. It is the way it will be for now on. Even if she came back tomorrow your kids are old enough to comprehend what she has done not only to you but to them as well. And all the counselling in the world will not change their minds but it will help them deal with it.

Be strong not only for yourself but for each one of your children. They need constant reassurance from you that you will never abandon them and that you still love them unconditionally.

We know you are hurting just through your posts. I cannot imagine how your kids feel for their Dad? 

And as much as your youngest was upset, I am glad your wife saw it firsthand. It might not get through to her but you know she saw it, heard it and felt it. Sooner or later she is going to have a AHA! moment when she realizes what she has done to her children. It might not happen until the karma bus stops to pick her up but hey you never know.

Good Luck, stay strong and be the rock for your family.....

HM64


----------



## Shaggy

You need to inform her that she doesn't get to decide to just keep him like that. She is pushing the agreement terms to suit herself and you and your son are emotionally being hurt by it.

Put your foot down and inform her that you expect her to stick to the agreement on custody.

You need to be very firm on this or she will push even more to meet her whims.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Keep on implementing *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* and *The 180 degree rules*. Also start making post divorce plans that will benefit you and your son - doing this will cause you to look forward to accomplishing them.


----------



## bmichael

I'm leaving work early today in order to pick the fella up early from school.  My boss and co-workers are fully aware of my situation and have been very supportive.


----------



## bmichael

Took my little man up to bed a little bit ago. He begged me not to leave him. So I layed in bed with him until he fell asleep in my arms.

It's killing me to think what this situation is doing to him and the rest of my kids.


----------



## bandit.45

> I guess he woke up in the middle of the night scared to death and crying and my wife had a hard time calming him down.


Yeah. This is what children do when they realise they are in the presence of evil.


----------



## bmichael

Shaggy said:


> You need to inform her that she doesn't get to decide to just keep him like that. She is pushing the agreement terms to suit herself and you and your son are emotionally being hurt by it.
> 
> Put your foot down and inform her that you expect her to stick to the agreement on custody.
> 
> You need to be very firm on this or she will push even more to meet her whims.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We don't have any kind of agreement in place. We're waiting on mediation to start after I've filed for primary custody.

This is the biggest headache right now. We just can't agree on how often she sees the kids. She wants them constantly and when I don't agree, she begins to sling threats.

For example, this weekend I told her she could have the kids overnight at her place, but my son didn't want to stay overnight so he came home. The next morning, I didn't hear from her so I got him dressed and around to go to church. As we were heading out the door, she text me and said she was going to pick him up. I told her that he wanted to go to church and I would bring him by afterward. 

She began with the threats, said it was her day and he wasn't old enough to make decisions, and if she didn't get him immediately, she was going to contact the police.

I told her to do whatever she needed to but he wanted to go to church and I was going to take him. Felt bad once we got there though. My little buddy thought his mom and sisters were going to be there too and the only reason he wanted to go was to have the family together.


----------



## happyman64

BMIchael,

You were right to stick to your plans. Especially with no custody agreement in place.

The key is to keep cool and deflect with your wife when she is acting in this "aggressive" manner.

One way of deflecting is to say something like this,

"I am sorry but we are heading to meet the rest of the kids at church, why aren't you on your way there?"

"You are welcome to join son and I at church with the rest of the family, I look forward to seeing the kids there!"

The key is to deflect the wayward, especially when she is ranting and raving in front of the other kids if she was.

Worst comes to worse she can send the police to church. I wonder how that will make her look.

Man does that woman need a psych evaluation or what?

Keep your chin up and do not cave in. Your kids are worth it!

HM64


----------



## bmichael

Thanks, happy.

I'm going to have another issue come tomorrow. She wants to see the kids on Tuesday and Thursday and I told her she could see them Wednesday.

That one day was plenty when she's seen them quite a bit over the past few weeks. She said that doesn't work for her and she's going to see them Tuesday and Thursday regardless of what I have to say about it.


----------



## happyman64

Good Luck and talk to your lawyer. Keep pushing the lawyer.

Was she always like this with you or is it the new "her"?


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> Good Luck and talk to your lawyer. Keep pushing the lawyer.
> 
> Was she always like this with you or is it the new "her"?


I've talked to my lawyer about this multiple times since it's always an issue. He said as long as I keep them in my house, she can't lawfully remove them. But if she gets them from school, there's nothing I can do about it. It'll be this way until a custody agreement is in place. We have mediation orientation on Thursday.

My wife is use to getting her way because I was a "Nice Guy" but that isn't the case now and it's causing her to act like this.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> We don't have any kind of agreement in place. We're waiting on mediation to start after I've filed for primary custody.
> 
> She began with the threats, said it was her day and he wasn't old enough to make decisions, and if she didn't get him immediately, she was going to contact the police.


While there is no custody order in place, she can't do a thing. She can call the police but they will tell her the same thing, and until then it is a civil matter. They wouldn't even send out a cruiser. So don't even worry about it. However, it works both ways. She could take off with the kids to another state and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it, so forget about the amber alert. That's why its important to have a temporary or emergency custody order in place ASAP.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> While there is no custody order in place, she can't do a thing. She can call the police but they will tell her the same thing, and until then it is a civil matter. They wouldn't even send out a cruiser. So don't even worry about it. However, it works both ways. She could take off with the kids to another state and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it, so forget about the amber alert. That's why its important to have a temporary or emergency custody order in place ASAP.


I tried to get a temporary or emergency order in place and I could't file one unless my kids' lives were in danger.


----------



## Goldmember357

you need to divorce she is unfaithful and not worthy of love she also wants out of your marriage. There is no point or use in trying to work things out as she has checked out mentally. 

such a shame 

best of luck hopefully you can or will continue to live a good clean life away for corruption and sin.


----------



## happyman64

I understand how frustrating this as well as confusing the kids.

No matter what, No More Mr. Nice Guy BMichael!!!

Stay tough and give it right back to her.


----------



## lordmayhem

bmichael said:


> I tried to get a temporary or emergency order in place and I could't file one unless my kids' lives were in danger.


I see. Even a temporary one? How about a child care plan? You will just have to be very wary of her then, because she CAN legally take them anywhere and NOT have to give them back if there is no court order signed by a judge. Of course, do not let her know this and keep it under your hat.


----------



## bmichael

lordmayhem said:


> I see. Even a temporary one? How about a child care plan? You will just have to be very wary of her then, because she CAN legally take them anywhere and NOT have to give them back if there is no court order signed by a judge. Of course, do not let her know this and keep it under your hat.


Even a temporary one.

My wife won't agree to anything even when there's no way with her schooling to actually care for the kids like they need to be.

Even when they're with her, all they're doing is watching movies and eating pizza or McDonalds. Even in her own place, she has no idea how to make dinner.


----------



## bandit.45

> Even when they're with her, all they're doing is watching movies and eating pizza or McDonalds. Even in her own place, she has no idea how to make dinner.


Every time the kids stay with her, ask your oldest girl to tell you exactly what their mom has been feeding them and keep a written journal of it. Your lawyer can use it to cite that she is not providing nutritious meals for her children the way a responsible parent should. This would be a good ace-in-the-hole for your lawyer to use in the custody mediations.

You should keep your eye out for any opportunity to discredit this woman. No playing nice with stakes this high!


----------



## Chaparral

Does anyone know if you can demand a psychological evaluation during a custody battle?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Does anyone know if you can demand a psychological evaluation during a custody battle?


I'd like to know as well.

It's crazy... she's not even the same person she was four months ago.


----------



## bmichael

Well, looks like my wife plans to pick the kids up from school today to ensure she gets them today even though we didn't agree on that.

On top of that, it appears my 17 yr old, who saw the EA messages, has now been turned against me and told my 14 yr old that I'm just a douche bag that's trying to take the babies away from my wife. Very disappointing.


----------



## happyman64

BMichael,

Try not put the kids in the middle. Yes your wife is doing it and she will keep lying to them.

In time the kids will wise up. All you can do is tell them that you love them and will always be there for them.

Believe me, once your wife cannot feed them, entertain them or gets caught out in the lies the kids will start singing a different tune.

Patience.....

This whole situation is new to the kids and you. In time this mess will get straightened out by your perseverance and your lawyer.

Keep calm and try not to let her get under your skin. That is her main goal, to piss you off!!!

HM64


----------



## strugglinghusband

Ditto above, it will take awhile but your kids will find out how she really is, just be the best you for them, they will come around.


----------



## bmichael

My 17 yr old text'd me earlier to apologize for calling me a douche bag and the things she said. I told her that I knew the situation was tough for all of us and that I loved her and would be there for her no matter what.


----------



## Beowulf

Make sure you are 100% honest with your kids. If you feel a certain way tell them. Kids are a lot smarter than we adults give them credit for. For example, if they ask why you don't want them to see their mother you can simply respond that you encourage them to see their mother but she is not in a good state of mind right now and you don't want the kids to be negatively affected. State the truth but do so in a way that doesn't disparage their mother. If you are always open and honest with them and take the high road it will work out for you and them in the end.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Women, that's why one of my favorite all time lines comes from Jack Nicholson in as good as it gets, when the receptionist asks "how he rights women so well?" and he said, "I think of a man and remove logic and accountability". I would seriously encourage your daughter to live with her mom, if that's the way she feels (which she obviously does). Why do you think she apologized? Because she knew that you knew. Would you have had the apology if you hadn't? You know the answer. Is your daughter financially dependent on you? I imagine. So there is a monetary quotient involved.

I don't know you or your relationship with your daughter. But I would be bold and get up in her grill and say this. 

"I know you think I'm a douche bag right now. But let me give you a glimpse of the grown up world. Your mom cheated. You know, you read the messages. Hey it happens. One day when you grow up (a long time from now, obviously) you are most likely going to fall in love. AND if he asks to marry you (which is a chance that is getting slimmer everyday just based on society). And you give your heart and soul to this person, then one day after years of what you think is a happy marriage, you find out that your husband has cheated. As your world is coming apart and you are trying with all of your might to keep you family together, your eldest tells her sister that "You are a douche bag and are trying to keep his babies from him". If that happens, and God forbid it does, how do you think you will feel?" Then whats more. Ask her "If that does happen, exactly how would you like me to comfort you?"

Her answer may tell you more about your daughter then you want to know. If she pauses and thinks, or if she blows you off. Good luck.


----------



## happyman64

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Stop, stop, stop.

The girl is 17 years old and her family is breaking up. BMichael is under enough stress. Getting into the kids faces will not be productive. His wicked wife is doing that a plenty.

The kids need hugs, lots a hugs. They need re assurance that Dad will always be there for them no matter what happens or who they end up living with.

In time they will see the truth and they will know who pulled the family apart and who tried to keep it together. They will also learn who is selfish and who is giving to the family.

BMichael is doing the best he can for all his children. That is all that matters.

Patience......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Disagree.

Hugs for the younger ones yes, but the 17 year old knows better. She has no right to dis her dad in that way. If he lets her get away with disrespecting him, what message is he sending her? 

She'll end up heading down the same road as her mom: using men to get what she wants and treating them like crap. No, he needs to lovingly but firmly put her in her place and make her understand he will not tolerate being verbally abused and denegrated.


----------



## happyman64

I have a 17 year old daughter in the house right now. There is a time and place for everything.

Of course she needs to be spoken to. Of course she should not dis her dad. The kid is hurting. Not only was she privy to her moms cheating but her world is being turned upside down.

She also is probably the oldest. She is getting all her siblings emotional stress as well. She is not coping very well.

They need time. I am sure when BMicahel and his daughter are together (not texting which is kids bs) they will talk and work this out. That is up to BMichael.

That is a tough age. Mom and dad splitting up. Graduating high school. Going away to college. That kid is dealing with a lot of emotions right now.

That is all I am saying. No disrespect to anyone.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

I agree. He shouldn't "get in her grille", but they do need to have that talk, and DG needs to tell her how proud he is of her and thank her for being a surrogate mom to her siblings.


----------



## Initfortheduration

All I suggested was a word picture conveyed with directness, for her to put herself in fathers place. The toughest thing for a 17 year old to do is to think outside of herself. There is nothing wrong with making her think of how her actions will effect their relationship. In fact, its called parenting. Preparing children for the future, teaching them critical thinking and that there are consequences to her or anyone actions. You say that B is under enough stress. I wonder if it was stressful for his daughter to call him a douche and undermine him with his 14 year old daughter? Sorry, I don't consider that being a surrogate mom. And if anything her comments to her younger sister only inflamed the situation. All of this is subjective. B knows his daughter, we don't. Oh and happyman, do you think rules and respect should stop or change because of situation? Sorry, thats when consistency from dad is the most important. Mom is a useless college groupy trying to hold on to her youth that she lost 20 years ago. She will be a negative effect on the children. She doesn't do anything for the family. She most likely will be the "buddy" mom, who lets her daughters boyfriends sleep over, or will buy them beer. Maybe when she is 21 mom can take her on one of those fun filled bar hopping nights.

Is any of this connecting?


----------



## bmichael

I plan to speak to my daughter today when I pick her up after school. I'm going to try to find a middle ground between what everyone is suggesting.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you heard from the FBI?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Have you heard from the FBI?


Yeah... unfortunately they told me the messages weren't enough to pursue prosecution.

However, my lawyer is building an alienation of affections case against the doctor.

Also, anyone have any suggestions on how to get my wife to stop texting and emailing me all day long? It's really interfering with my job duties.


----------



## bandit.45

Change your cell# and email address?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> Change your cell# and email address?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've been trying to avoid this but I guess it's really the only thing I can do.

She sent me an email this morning trying to tell me how to parent my kids. LOL.

My son has slept a few nights with me in my bed since the incident last week and she's trying to tell me that it's not a good thing and that they should be sleeping in their own beds.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Initfortheduration said:


> I wonder if it was stressful for his daughter to call him a douche and undermine him with his 14 year old daughter?


Stinks having to be the adult, doesnn't it? Because at 17, the daughter is not yet an adult. She may look like it and even act like it sometimes, but she is not yet, certainly with respect to controlling her emotions. She will make mistakes, and here she made a big one. So B can lash out at her and drive her away (may be even confirm what his STBX is saying about him), or he can calmly correct her, show her what she needs to do in the future, and assure her that even with everything going on in the family and even with this mistake, he loves his daughter. 

B, you daughter is just as scared and unsure as your 14 year old is. She needs you to set proper boundaries and she also needs you to confirm that you love her. I think the middle ground that you are discussing makes a lot of sense. One idea is to include the 14 year old at the end, so your 17 year old can apologize to you in front of her. This gives her the chance to stand up and be accountable, and you the chance to show affirm you love them even with everything going on.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

bmichael said:


> I've been trying to avoid this but I guess it's really the only thing I can do.
> 
> She sent me an email this morning trying to tell me how to parent my kids. LOL.
> 
> My son has slept a few nights with me in my bed since the incident last week and she's trying to tell me that it's not a good thing and that they should be sleeping in their own beds.


The urge to reply "I will give this the consideration it is due" would be almost unstoppable if I were in your shoes right now.


----------



## MrQuatto

Beware of sexual abuse allegations,

just sayin

Q~


----------



## bmichael

Tall Average Guy said:


> The urge to reply "*I will give this the consideration it is due*" would be almost unstoppable if I were in your shoes right now.


Maybe I'm too tired or stressed out, but I'm not sure what this means...


----------



## Tall Average Guy

bmichael said:


> Maybe I'm too tired or stressed out, but I'm not sure what this means...


You will give her suggestion on parenting techniques the consideration it deserves. As it is from a person who displays no good parenting skills, it is due no consideration. It is a snarky way of telling her you will ignore it - of course, she may be too self-involved to understand that.


----------



## happyman64

Thanks Tag. You summed up the middle ground very well.

BMichael,
Just ask your wife to layoff or go through your attorney. You can change your number but she will just get the new number from he kids.

I am glad you are talking to the girls. They are lashing out . They need you badly. Sometimes kids just ask for help badly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## river rat

Why not just turn off your phone for 2-3 hrs at a time, so you can get your work done. Then take a break and check messages and delete the nonsense. Give your cell # to your kids so they can contact you in an emergency. Your wife doesn't seem to know what's urgent anyway.


----------



## Initfortheduration

bmichael said:


> I plan to speak to my daughter today when I pick her up after school. I'm going to try to find a middle ground between what everyone is suggesting.


I know you will find the right words.


----------



## Chaparral

You may have mentioned this before but what is she getting a degree in? Do you have a degree?


----------



## Initfortheduration

I believe she is finishing her PA (OMG!). I mean her physicians assistant degree. As I recall the OM has undermined his marriage, and may be up for an "alienation of affection" lawsuit. Bmichael has been an awesome dad, and he deserves credit for how he is holding up.


----------



## Chaparral

Not that it matters, but I'm thinking she has been going to school for five years after having six kids. She is going to school mostly with people much younger than her (I assume). She sees people starting out in life while she has a family with six kids some of whom are almost grown. As a matter of fact, one daughter is almost in college. 

Most of this may boil down to a mid life crisis. She may be feeling like she should be able to get a redo. Of course she may have been having an EA with the doctor but he may have been trying to defend her based on her now skewed veiw of her life. Its hard to imagine she would have kept having babies with someone who was so angry and mean. A guy who has let her drop her responsibilites for the last five years. 

Yet this just doesn't add up to an affair with two doctors involved. More like mental issues.


----------



## bmichael

EA or mid life crisis or both. It doesn't matter. I'm focused only on the welfare of my children at this point.

Had a good talk to my 17 yr old tonight about what happened yesterday.

Mediation orientation tomorrow at Noon.


----------



## happyman64

Good on both points.

I am glad the two of you talked.

Good Luck tomorrow.


----------



## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> Good on both points.
> 
> I am glad the two of you talked.
> 
> *Good Luck tomorrow*.


Appears to only be an information session. We'll find out who are mediator is going to be and when the actual mediation starts.


----------



## bmichael

Ahhhh!!!

Really screwed up today and I'm ready for all the bashing and chewing out that comes along with it...

Mistake #1: After listening to my wife sniffle tears during the mediation orientation, she asked me to join her out for lunch and I agreed.

Mistake #2: I went back to her apartment to get a look at it since I haven't been inside since she moved out.

Mistake #3: Take a wild guess...

So incredibly disappointed in myself.


----------



## DailyGrind

bmichael said:


> Ahhhh!!!
> 
> Really screwed up today and I'm ready for all the bashing and chewing out that comes along with it...
> 
> Mistake #1: After listening to my wife sniffle tears during the mediation orientation, she asked me to join her out for lunch and I agreed.
> 
> Mistake #2: I went back to her apartment to get a look at it since I haven't been inside since she moved out.
> 
> Mistake #3: Take a wild guess...
> 
> So incredibly disappointed in myself.


Who initiated?


----------



## bandit.45

You dipped your wick. 

Dumbass. 

Ask her doctor boyfriend to give you an STD test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

DailyGrind said:


> Who initiated?


She did...

She said at lunch that she was wanting sex very badly since it's been four months. Then she said something about sex again at the apartment... and one thing lead to another.


----------



## DailyGrind

bmichael said:


> She did...
> 
> She said at lunch that she was wanting sex very badly since it's been four months. Then she said something about sex again at the apartment... and one thing lead to another.


Okay. Small relapse. She's trying to regain control. Did it change any of your resolve? If not....no harm (STD's aside) no foul. If it is changing your thoughts....you might need to step back and try and clear your head...don't make any decisions until you've done so.


----------



## bmichael

DailyGrind said:


> Okay. Small relapse. She's trying to regain control. Did it change any of your resolve? If not....no harm (STD's aside) no foul. If it is changing your thoughts....you might need to step back and try and clear your head...don't make any decisions until you've done so.


Hasn't affected my resolve at all. Maybe even increased it since I recognize that she was trying to manipulate me.


----------



## DailyGrind

bmichael said:


> Hasn't affected my resolve at all. Maybe even increased it since I recognize that she was trying to manipulate me.


Carry on, then....at least you get to reset your sexless clock. 

I'm still on two years.... :moon:


----------



## bandit.45

B- you realize that you have just blown any chance of using adultery against her in the divorce? By having sex you have legally forgiven and aquitted her of her affairs and adulterous behavior? Her lawyer is going to have a field day with your a*s.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Bmichael

One day ata time my man. One day at a time. No bashing from me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

B- I'm not kidding bro. 

You scr*wed the pooch in more ways than one. 

Dumbass.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

Next time, wank one before you go out and meet her ...


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> Hasn't affected my resolve at all. Maybe even increased it since I recognize that she was trying to manipulate me.


Manipulating you to do what?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Manipulating you to do what?


To change my stance on primary custody.


----------



## F-102

I'd love to see her face when she realizes you won't change your stance on custody after you "gave in" to her.

She will be soooooooo p*ssed!


----------



## bandit.45

B- you need to tell your lawyer what you did. You just sealed the deal on her getting PC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> To change my stance on primary custody.


I'm wondering if she might be thinking of reconciling. Would you be up for that?


----------



## bmichael

chapparal said:


> I'm wondering if she might be thinking of reconciling. Would you be up for that?


I don't think that's the case, and I don't know if I'd be up for it either. I don't think it was anything more than just sex. At least that's the way I'm looking at it because it hasn't changed the way I feel about anything.


----------



## bmichael

bandit.45 said:


> B- you need to tell your lawyer what you did. You just sealed the deal on her getting PC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to talk to the lawyer today about it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

oh boy


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> B- you need to tell your lawyer what you did. You just sealed the deal on her getting PC.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why? I don't see what's the dif?


----------



## Almostrecovered

chapparal said:


> Why? I don't see what's the dif?




could be a big deal in the alienation of affectation suit


----------



## bmichael

Almostrecovered said:


> could be a big deal in the alienation of affectation suit


I didn't really think about this until afterward and that's what I'm thinking as well. I probably torpedoed that case. 

On the other hand, it left my wife kinda vulnerable I guess because she starting tell me all kinds of things about her lawyer, her schedule, money, school, etc.

Her life is more complicated with all the things she's doing now than when we were living together! There's no way she'd be able to care for our kids properly in a joint agreement.


----------



## Almostrecovered

well Im not certain of anything, but mention it to your lawyer so he can tell you


----------



## bandit.45

chapparal said:


> I'm wondering if she might be thinking of reconciling. Would you be up for that?


No, she's trying to discredit him. I'm telling ya. He can no longer use adultery against her in the custody hearings. By having sex with her he has legally condoned and forgiven. 

Someone on her side has been coaching her. She probably banged a law student.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lordmayhem

bandit.45 said:


> No, she's trying to discredit him. I'm telling ya. He can no longer use adultery against her in the custody hearings. *By having sex with her he has legally condoned and forgiven*.
> 
> Someone on her side has been coaching her. She probably banged a law student.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## Beowulf

bandit.45 said:


> B- you realize that you have just blown any chance of using adultery against her in the divorce? By having sex you have legally forgiven and aquitted her of her affairs and adulterous behavior? Her lawyer is going to have a field day with your a*s.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, he can just deny it ever happened. Unless she had a VAR hidden somewhere.


----------



## DailyGrind

Beowulf said:


> Nope, he can just deny it ever happened. Unless she had a VAR hidden somewhere.


Which he wouldn't know until he pergers himself in court...and they whip out the VAR.


----------



## Shaggy

slow down guys - they had sex. 

His estranged wife offered a guy sex after he hadn't had it in 4 months because he was still being faithful.

that isn't him accepting her affair, and it didn't get them back together - so her affection is still alienated.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

DailyGrind said:


> Which he wouldn't know until he pergers himself in court...and they whip out the VAR.


They would have to produce that in discovery. Unless B's lawyer is a complete idiot, they will be requesting that information from her (assuming that she argues it as a defense).


----------



## bandit.45

Austin is a lawyer. Ill msg him and see if he responds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

bandit.45 said:


> By having sex with her he has legally condoned and forgiven.


It does , What if they were in the process of reconciling but that broke down, it wouldn't change the fact that she cheated or his case against her?


----------



## bandit.45

I think it wipes her slate clean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap

They are still a husband and a wife legally, you make it sound like he committed a crime by engaging in consensual sex. If that really has any effect on how you handle divorce over there in the States, it's frankly ridiculous.


----------



## gpa

Actually I do not know the legislation over there. And I am well aware that you have large variations from state to state. But it seems quite impossible to excuse her adultery behavior just by having sex with the STBXH, especially for custody reasons. Well here in Europe, there is not such a thing. And I am thinking that actually this behavior implies and proves emotional instability which is another point for B’s favour.


----------



## bmichael

The drama keeps rolling...

Wife called about our mediation appointment today but then she said something about coming over to the house on Sunday night to watch a TV show that we use to watch together. WTF is going on?!


----------



## Almostrecovered

maybe she's still horny?


----------



## bandit.45

Ughhh boy....

I guess she wants more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

bmichael said:


> The drama keeps rolling...
> 
> Wife called about our mediation appointment today but then she said something about coming over to the house on Sunday night to watch a TV show that we use to watch together. WTF is going on?!


what was your response?


----------



## gpa

bmichael said:


> The drama keeps rolling...
> 
> Wife called about our mediation appointment today but then she said something about coming over to the house on Sunday night to watch a TV show that we use to watch together. WTF is going on?!


R perhaps?


----------



## bmichael

Complexity said:


> what was your response?


I deflected and switched the subject.


----------



## happyman64

Talk to your attorney. Run it by him.


----------



## Complexity

bmichael said:


> I deflected and switched the subject.


OK good, if she brings it up again you have to firmly reject her "offer". I know what happened the other day between you two must've brought out a lot of emotions but you have to think about your situation very carefully and get out of your own mini fog.


----------



## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> The drama keeps rolling...
> 
> Wife called about our mediation appointment today but then she said something about coming over to the house on Sunday night to watch a TV show that we use to watch together. WTF is going on?!


She can't get enough of that funky stuff.:rofl:


----------



## Chaparral

Be cool,stay calm and see what she 's thinking. Reality really hits some people and they get it. She has a lot on her plate and if what I see from your writing is what she has been seeing she just may be rethinking her posiyion in regard to you and her family.

Prayers for your family.


----------



## bmichael

This in addition to yesterday is just crazy and I don't know what to think about any of it. I wasn't expecting it at all.

Emotional rollercoaster is trying to start up again after I had shut it down.


----------



## calif_hope

Bandit.45 and others - I wish you would cease offering posts in the absolute were legal issues are concerned. Each State is different in how it deals with the issues involved in this and other threads - what you see on TV, what you get from others, and even from personal experiences if your case is a couple of years old your info may not be and most likely isn't valid.

In terms of California, and about 35 other states Bmichael HAS NOT weakened his position in any way. And the others states don't apply the sex after the fact in the absolute.

Let's be careful while being supportive!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bmichael

calif_hope said:


> Bandit.45 and others - I wish you would cease offering posts in the absolute were legal issues are concerned. Each State is different in how it deals with the issues involved in this and other threads - what you see on TV, what you get from others, and even from personal experiences if your case is a couple of years old your info may not be and most likely isn't valid.
> 
> In terms of California, and about 35 other states Bmichael HAS NOT weakened his position in any way. And the others states don't apply the sex after the fact in the absolute.
> 
> Let's be careful while being supportive!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm in North Carolina.


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## Almostrecovered

well as I stated earlier, just tell the lawyer and he'll tell you what's what

NC is one of the few states that allow for alienation suits


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## bandit.45

> Bandit.45 and others - I wish you would cease offering posts in the absolute were legal issues are concerned. Each State is different in how it deals with the issues involved in this and other threads - what you see on TV, what you get from others, and even from personal experiences if your case is a couple of years old your info may not be and most likely isn't valid.
> 
> In terms of California, and about 35 other states Bmichael HAS NOT weakened his position in any way. And the others states don't apply the sex after the fact in the absolute.
> 
> Let's be careful while being supportive


Thats why I told him to talk to his lawyer. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.


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## Chaparral

Has the lawyer started the lawsuit yet?


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## Almostrecovered

chapparal said:


> Has the lawyer started the lawsuit yet?


that's actually a good question because if the OM got notice your wife's sexual advances may be more nefarious than just wanting some sex


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## bandit.45

It was still a boneheaded thing to do.

Keep your pecker in your pants D!


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## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> It was still a boneheaded thing to do.
> 
> Keep your pecker in your pants D!


That depends on what his goals are. 

If she wants to watch TV, offer to buy the popcorn and beer. A little parley with the enemy to get info. Sometimes you have to go down in a sacrifice move.


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## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Has the lawyer started the lawsuit yet?


No.


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## bmichael

chapparal said:


> That depends on what his goals are.
> 
> If she wants to watch TV, offer to buy the popcorn and beer. A little parley with the enemy to get info. Sometimes you have to go down in a sacrifice move.


She did willingly give up a lot of details yesterday. A lot of things I didn't know.


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## bandit.45

> That depends on what his goals are.
> 
> If she wants to watch TV, offer to buy the popcorn and beer. A little parley with the enemy to get info. Sometimes you have to go down in a sacrifice move.


Hmmm... risky.

Hope he wore a raincoat. Hope his johnson doesn't wither up and fall off in a month.


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## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> She did willingly give up a lot of details yesterday. A lot of things I didn't know.


Important things?


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## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Hmmm... risky.
> 
> Hope he wore a raincoat. Hope his johnson doesn't wither up and fall off in a month.


She didn't have a physical affair. (Unless I have lost track again.)


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## bmichael

chapparal said:


> She didn't have a physical affair. (Unless I have lost track again.)


She didn't.


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## morituri

bmichael said:


> She didn't.


It still hurts like hell.


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## bmichael

morituri said:


> It still hurts like hell.


Absolutely.


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## bandit.45

Uh...okay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmichael

chapparal said:


> Important things?


Things about her schedule, the fact that it's more complicated now than it was before. No clue how she could look after our kids properly during the week. Things about her lawyer, things her lawyer told her, things her friends have said. 

She was an open book for the most part... unless she was completely lying to me.


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## Chaparral

bmichael said:


> Things about her schedule, the fact that it's more complicated now than it was before. No clue how she could look after our kids properly during the week. Things about her lawyer, things her lawyer told her, things her friends have said.
> 
> She was an open book for the most part... unless she was completely lying to me.


And did you get any sense of where she was going with all this?

It seems that with what she says she couldn't handle primary custody so why would she be trying to manipulate you?


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## bmichael

chapparal said:


> And did you get any sense of where she was going with all this?
> 
> It seems that with what she says she couldn't handle primary custody so why would she be trying to manipulate you?


I didn't get any sense of where she was going. She was just filling me in and spilling her guts like we weren't separated. Yet, she still said she didn't want to be married.

I think she knows she couldn't handle primary custody. She wants us to have joint custody, which I don't think she could handle that either.


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## happyman64

BMichael,

She is starting to feel the consequences of her actions.

She is feeling for herself. No matter what it sounds like she is not remorseful and wants to be on her own.

She does not want to be your wife or a full time mom anymore.

Sadly, it sounds like she has a lot of growing up to do.

Stick to your principles. Do what is right for your kids since she is not will ing to do it.

Unless she is remorseful and wants to work on your marriage there is nothing else you can really do at this time.

Be strong....

HM64


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## Chaparral

If you can handle sex with her while getting yourself emotionally ready for divorce it may serve to draw her back into the family if thats what you want. At some point you need to pointout to her that the sex will have to end when you fine a girl friend. You also could point out you may end up with an even bigger family depending on who you hook up with. At least thats the story I would tell her. She's only thinking of her future , not her family's and how the distance between her and her family will grow. Just saying.


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## bmichael

chapparal said:


> If you can handle sex with her while getting yourself emotionally ready for divorce it may serve to draw her back into the family if thats what you want. At some point you need to pointout to her that the sex will have to end when you fine a girl friend. You also could point out you may end up with an even bigger family depending on who you hook up with. At least thats the story I would tell her. She's only thinking of her future , not her family's and how the distance between her and her family will grow. Just saying.


I'm not sure that's something I want...

Also, she's already text'd me this morning to tell me she's no longer going out of town today and will be around if I need help with the kids. This is my agreed upon weekend. More mind games?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calif_hope

Sometimes the words and actions of a person falling apart can be perceived as mind games......the are the actions and ramblings of a person no longer connected to themselves and their life. However, you still need to protect your self as if they are the words and deeds of a person who has conceived an action and tactical plan to gain a victory over you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

BMichael,
You keep looking for a clue that she wants to reconcile but you just said after she spilled her guts that she still wants the divorce.

Keep moving ahead with the attorney. Your wife is starting to see the picture of her single life. 

She wants to be single with you and the kids there as her support mechanism for when she is feeling down and alone.

You cannot be her support anymore. You deserve to have a life too!

She should have been open with you months ago. She should have turned to you instead of the OM.

Do not give up on custody. You are the only unselfish parent that has 100% of the children's best interest in mind.....

Keep moving forward.

How was her apartment by the way? Was it a bachelorette pad? Was it suitable for all the kids?

How are your kids by te way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Maybe she's looking for an invite to a weinie roast.


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## happyman64

chapparal said:


> Maybe she's looking for an invite to a weinie roast.


Chap,
Thanks for the laugh but I do not know if BMichael will laugh over the roast.
Hm64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bmichael

I laughed. For a second or so. 

She texted me again asking about tomorrow.

I responded and said that I was real busy and we'd discuss it later. I plan to tell her that she's not coming over. That she decided she didn't want to be married anymore and that I'm moving on with my life.

I'm not changing my mind about primary custody of my kids no matter what. It's what's best for them and I'm not going to be swayed. Mediation is Monday at 11am.


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## bmichael

happyman64 said:


> BMichael,
> You keep looking for a clue that she wants to reconcile but you just said after she spilled her guts that she still wants the divorce.
> 
> Keep moving ahead with the attorney. Your wife is starting to see the picture of her single life.
> 
> She wants to be single with you and the kids there as her support mechanism for when she is feeling down and alone.
> 
> You cannot be her support anymore. You deserve to have a life too!
> 
> She should have been open with you months ago. She should have turned to you instead of the OM.
> 
> Do not give up on custody. You are the only unselfish parent that has 100% of the children's best interest in mind.....
> 
> Keep moving forward.
> 
> How was her apartment by the way? Was it a bachelorette pad? Was it suitable for all the kids?
> 
> How are your kids by te way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The apartment looked really nice. New carpet. Fresh paint. 

Kids are doing good for the most part. I've had them pretty much all week and this weekend.

I have therapy on Monday before mediation and I'm setting up appointments then for two of my daughters.


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## happyman64

Good. She might not be able to cook but at least her apt. is clean.

That is also a smart idea about getting the girls into counselling.

Stick to your plan. Get custody of the kids. 

I know it sucks going through this. Your wife is a different person now. Maybe the person you fell in love with will re-appear, maybe not.

Do not count on it. She obviously wants her freedom. And not just from you or the marriage. She does not want to be a full-time parent as well.

Stay the course. It will be better for you and the kids in the long run. 

The only person you can count on is you!


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## bandit.45

Any woman who would abandon a husband and six kids is a.....

oh, nevermind...


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## karole

bandit.45 said:


> Any woman who would abandon a husband and six kids is a.....
> 
> oh, nevermind...


either a very disturbed woman or someone who has no heart or conscious - or both.


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## bandit.45

karole said:


> either a very disturbed woman or someone who has no heart or conscious - or both.


No I had another set of adjectives in mind. My mom ran out on the family when I was six. This is a real sore spot for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

karole said:


> either a very disturbed woman or someone who has no heart or conscious - or both.


Or someone that's bit off more than they can chew. Or mid life crisis. or...............


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## happyman64

BMichael,

Are you ok buddy? I was thinking of you and your whole brood tonight so I thought I would reach out to you to make sure you are ok and hanging in there.

HM64


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## KirkSpock

I’m surprised no one has mentioned this, but is it possible that her doctor friend who paid for her first month’s rent is also coming the realization that the second month’ s rent due date is quickly approaching…and this doctor is not willing to pay for it again and again? In other words….rather than any type of genuine remorse, isn’t it MORE likely that the free and fantastical ride she has been enjoying for the past month (Living the single, college graduate lifestyle…..at 33, having ABANDONED her husband and, no offense, but more shockingly, her 6 children?? How pathetic) is realistically about to end and she might be looking to manipulate you into letting her back into the house? That’s the first thing that entered my mind, at any rate. 
Don’t fall for it B…..she has made her choices, it’s time to live with the consequences. Up until recently, she has still been able to see her children, has not had to pay rent, and has had full support from her toxic, enabling friends. The thing is, toxic friends thrive on the drama…not on the consequences, especially if they (the toxic friends) have to suffer as well. Having to pay for a month’s worth of rent might be exciting to a toxic friend because they get to sit back and watch all the drama…..paying for multiple months will get old, real fast, especially if that toxic friend has a spouse and/or family of their own to spend money on. Could you imagine being the husband of this doctor friend? “You want to spend ANOTHER $1,200.00 on your friend’s apartment???”. I think this is where your wife is at right now, and she is flailing around now that she’s realizing this month long vacation is about to end.
And keep smiling B….any time she gives you a sob story, just smile and say “Well, that’s what I have heard happens to women who abandon their children and spouse…it must be very inconvenient for you, poor dear!”. Then give her a very pitying look, shake your head with a sad grin, and move on.

You may also tell her, when she inevitably begs for cash or resources, that you have nothing to give because you are saving up money for the eventual therapy your kids will require. Lean in close, like you are about to tell her a saucy secret, and whisper “I didn’t want to say anything, because it’s very embarrassing and it’s quite shocking….but their mom abandoned them suddenly and it’s really affected them greatly, poor dears. So I’m saving all my extra cash to send them for therapy to repair all the damage this selfish woman has inflicted on my children”.


OKOK, that was written out of spite….but it made me feel good


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## bmichael

Been a long time since I posted. Here's an update on things:

My wife and I reconciled in mid-March last year. We decided to "date" each other for a while and see how things went. She apologized for talking to the doctor, and gave me her passwords to email, facebook, etc.

Everything was great for the first few months for the most part, including a caribbean cruise that just her and I went on. But, that's when everything went downhill. While on the cruise, she accused me of looking at another woman's butt. Her words were, "why don't you take a picture, it'll last longer." I was pissed. I wasn't looking at anyone and her tone was ridiculous. I told her I wanted an apology, which she refused. That resulted in me telling her that it wasn't true that I was looking at another woman. What was true is that she spent two months flirting and talking with another man via text and facebook behind my back, which I considered cheating. She was furious that I said that. She stormed out of our cabin and hid on the upper deck of the ship for several hours.

After returning home, things just continued to gradually go back to the way things were with her before we separated except that my anger is no longer a problem. She's changed her password to her phone and facebook and has refused to give them to me. She now says the conversations that she had with the doctor weren't wrong at all, even though she previously apologized for it. And she's sleeping upstairs in a different bedroom.

I told her that I couldn't live this way and that she needed to leave the house for good this time. She refuses. Said that I tried to keep the kids from her before and that she was never leaving again. She says she's no longer emotionally involved in our relationship and plans to keep things the way they are. All the while, she barely helps with any of the finances. She won't help pay the mortgage, utilities or groceries. She only moderating helps with the daycare, and barely helped pay for any of the kids' presents for Christmas.

At this time, if I can work out a child visitation schedule with her, I'm planning to move out of the house myself since I don't know what else to do and I can't live this way at all.


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## happyman64

BMichael

Looks like she just found another excuse to be mad at you. Permanently.

She really sounds like she has left the marriage.

How is she with the kids?

And how do you let her get away with not kicking for her share of the household expenses?

If you do decide to move out, not only do you need to get a custody/visitation arrangement in place but a finance arrangement as well.

Never let her use your "abandonment"as an excuse against you legally.

Sorry Reconciliation did not work out.

Any idea why she feels the way she does about you and the marriage?

HM64


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## Chaparral

*While on the cruise, she accused me of looking at another woman's butt. Her words were, "why don't you take a picture, it'll last longer." I was pissed. I wasn't looking at anyone and her tone was ridiculous. I told her I wanted an apology, which she refused.*

Your whole family has fallen apart because the two of you turned a molehill into a mountain. Neither of you could be the bigger man and see the others point of view. 

God bless your children, the two of you can't. I hope you both are ashamed of your selves.

BTW is there a husband out there that hasn't ben accused by his wife for looking at another womens a$$? Is there a mna out there that doesn't look?

You had it all going your way and threw it overboard.


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