# Knowing when to give up



## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

This is a long story so I'll try to keep it concise. I've been married 17 years to the man I considered the love of my life. We have truly been best friends and I (and everyone that knew us) always believed we were true soulmates. 5 years ago I discovered that my H had opened an adult dating site account and confronted him. We went to marriage counseling and he claimed that nothing ever happened, he was just curious, etc, etc. 

Now I know that it's foolish, but I believed him. I believed that he valued me and our beautiful children enough not to gamble with our future. Fast forward to the present when after about a year of him becoming increasingly distant I began to suspect that more was going on and of course he blamed his moodiness on job stress. Well, he got sloppy and I have now found out that he has physically cheated on me since at leas 2009 with at least 6-7 people (i honestly suspect there are more). This doesn't even include the countless people he's had cyber sex with or TRIED to hook up with.

I am devastated. I can't believe this is the man I loved. I kicked him out 6 months ago and I confess that I thought that would be the wake up call he needed to get his act together. But all thats happened is he's continued his behavior, while seemingly abandoning all responsibility. And just when I get fed up, he comes around and says he loves me and that we can work this out.

I can't figure out what makes me even consider staying at this point. I'm intelligent, attractive and have a great job with which to support myself. Is there something wrong with me that I just can't seem to cut that final cord between us?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

No, there's nothing wrong with you. You're going through what almost all betrayed spouses go through. But you need to remind yourself that you did the right thing.

The husband you describe is a serial cheater. There is practically no hope for a reconciliation with someone like that. You'd just be looking at future heart ache when it happens again. 

Do the 180 (find the link) to help detach from him. File for divorce (if you haven't) and move on with your life. You've already given the reasons that you'll be fine. It just takes some time.

There are other men out there who respect their vows. Work on taking good care of yourself. Go to the gym, get in to individual counseling, and put him in your rear view mirror.

Keep posting for support. There are a lot of people here who have and are going through the same thing. My guess is that you will find that divorce is the best outcome and the happy ending that you're looking for.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> This is a long story so I'll try to keep it concise. I've been married 17 years to the man I considered the love of my life. We have truly been best friends and I (and everyone that knew us) always believed we were true soulmates. 5 years ago I discovered that my H had opened an adult dating site account and confronted him. We went to marriage counseling and he claimed that nothing ever happened, he was just curious, etc, etc.
> 
> Now I know that it's foolish, but I believed him. I believed that he valued me and our beautiful children enough not to gamble with our future. Fast forward to the present when after about a year of him becoming increasingly distant I began to suspect that more was going on and of course he blamed his moodiness on job stress. Well, he got sloppy and I have now found out that he has physically cheated on me since at leas 2009 with at least 6-7 people (i honestly suspect there are more). This doesn't even include the countless people he's had cyber sex with or TRIED to hook up with.
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with you. The husband is enjoying the lack of responsibilities and his "freedom".

You need to find someone who wants to be in a committed position to you. Let him go on his way, because he's only going to keep hurting you.

Let him know this is the final chance, that you can go and get some help together or he may as well stay gone because you are moving on with your life.

This is the right thing to do.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Everyone here is saying that there is nothing wrong with you but I will not say that to you. If you take this man back, he will cheat again. I dont believe that he can be rehabilitated, there are 6-7 that you know about. Do you know how many there could actually be? I hope you were tested for STD's. 

What is wrong with you that you dont want better for yourself, he sounds like a pig! JMHO!


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

LoriC said:


> Everyone here is saying that there is nothing wrong with you but I will not say that to you. If you take this man back, he will cheat again. I dont believe that he can be rehabilitated, there are 6-7 that you know about. Do you know how many there could actually be? I hope you were tested for STD's.
> 
> What is wrong with you that you dont want better for yourself, he sounds like a pig! JMHO!


Yes men can be pigs and so can women. Pig behavior is bad for you other than the cheating, because there are other psychological things that the pigs do.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you all for the support. I understand that I have issues that keep me unhealthily involved with this man, call it codependency, addictive relationship whatever...and I am in individual counseling working hard to understand myself. I think the reason I've hung on so long is because I do believe in marriage and I meant when I said for better or worse. I was able to convince myself that this is the "worst" so the "better" must be on its way. But I can only keep tying knots in this rope for so long before there's nothing left to hold. I just hate the fact that my kids cry almost every night wondering why Daddy can't come home and it's hard to let go of that dream of the big, happy family.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

45
6' 3"
250 LBS
Full set of teeth
Full head of hair
Not a fashion model, I'm easy on the eyes. I know I'm a decent looking man.
Million Dollar home ( 750k in equity )
Pension ( 5,300 take home a month ) If I retired, 401k, Annuity, Other monies that equal 10k a year if I retired. 
Nutshell I would get about 6k a month without working

Wife left me for someone OVER a foot shorter then me. 
No money, No home, No finances, Basically Social Security is his retirement plan. 
Bald and bad teeth.

I couldn't understand either. Give it a few months you will slowly start to understand it isn't you. 

The problem is you ( like myself for my wife ) want him to notice this now. It isn't going to happen. 

As many here will tell you it will happen after your gone. After he has time to see how many broken women are out there. It might take a month or 10 months or 2 years, but it happens. 

You will not be there to see it. But he will wake up one day and say WTF did I do. What ever issues he has, he will never fix. But you my dear can fix what you might think was broken with you.

Basically you will fix yourself for another man as I am fixing myself for another women. 

Do some counseling and try to see what issues you might have. As an example I buried myself in the computer and I shouldn't have. If you look at my thread in the beginning I even blamed my divorce on that because that is how I foolishly felt in the beginning. 

Another issue I had was I equated sex to a relationship. I had sex 2-3 times a week so everything should be good. Wrong..

So be honest with your short comings and just fix that for you and have better future relationships.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Hard to Handle,

My situation is similar in that the other women have all been average at best. Most have been at least 10 years older, slightly out of shape, and let's face it... desperate. I believe they catered to his ego to the extent that he felt like he was some prize to be coveted. I don't believe this was about me; he has all kinds of issues he needs to resolve within himself. But you're right, it won't happen until I'm long gone.

As for myself, I've found a great Church, I'm training for a half-marathon, and really working to find myself again after losing so much of my own identity in this marriage. One positive is I have rediscovered the pure joy that my children bring. I think I was so distracted by the issues in my marriage at times that I didn't enjoy my children as fully as I could have.

I don't know if I'll ever find anyone else to love, but if I do I know that it will be because I'm healthy, strong and worth loving.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> This is a long story so I'll try to keep it concise. I've been married 17 years to the man I considered the love of my life. We have truly been best friends and I (and everyone that knew us) always believed we were true soulmates. 5 years ago I discovered that my H had opened an adult dating site account and confronted him. We went to marriage counseling and he claimed that nothing ever happened, he was just curious, etc, etc.
> 
> Now I know that it's foolish, but I believed him. I believed that he valued me and our beautiful children enough not to gamble with our future. Fast forward to the present when after about a year of him becoming increasingly distant I began to suspect that more was going on and of course he blamed his moodiness on job stress. Well, he got sloppy and I have now found out that he has physically cheated on me since at leas 2009 with at least 6-7 people (i honestly suspect there are more). This doesn't even include the countless people he's had cyber sex with or TRIED to hook up with.
> 
> ...


I too adored my husband, thought he was my best friend, and no one would imagine him the husband who would go to prostitutes. I don't have full proof but I'm almost certain that he had sex with 6-7 prostitutes. Like you, a year earlier to finding this out, I caught him on chat rooms developing with inappropriate relationships with other girls. 

It's shocking. It shakes up your world and your basic beliefs about yourself and existence. I feel your pain. I too am not ready to end my nightmare though I see my husband is a sex addict and I will never be fully happy if I remain with him. 

Oh punkinhead, I am so sorry that you are among the unlucky here. It's been the worst experience of my life - I'm sure you are struggling to get through it to. Seriously, how can our lover and best friend so ruthlessly rip our lives apart. Stick to TAM to help you get through this. Sadly, there are many, many torn (but wise) souls on here.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Dear Totally,

Our stories sound so similar. My heart breaks for you too. It's so hard to accept that an otherwise very solid marriage is breaking over something as superficial as sex. And I know that people think "how solid can the marriage be if this was going on?" But truthfully it was a good and loving marriage. Sex addicts are such broken people and I know in the end that nothing I do will change him, it's still hard not to try. I'm getting stronger each day and trying to look ahead, but I honestly just miss him so very much. I know in all reality I will have to end this marriage, but I have to find some peace in the decision before I can move forward with it and I know that will take some time. I'm sorry you're here as well, and I hope that you find your peace soon.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> Dear Totally,
> 
> Our stories sound so similar. My heart breaks for you too. It's so hard to accept that an otherwise very solid marriage is breaking over something as superficial as sex. And I know that people think "how solid can the marriage be if this was going on?" But truthfully it was a good and loving marriage. Sex addicts are such broken people and I know in the end that nothing I do will change him, it's still hard not to try. I'm getting stronger each day and trying to look ahead, but I honestly just miss him so very much. I know in all reality I will have to end this marriage, but I have to find some peace in the decision before I can move forward with it and I know that will take some time. I'm sorry you're here as well, and I hope that you find your peace soon.


Do you think that a man wanting sex and intimacy with his own wife or long term girlfriend is a sex addict?


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Do you think that a man wanting sex and intimacy with his own wife or long term girlfriend is a sex addict?


I AM SHOCKED BY THIS REMARK? Any person who expects sex & intimacy from anyone OUTSIDE their marriage is a sick F'ing sex addict amongst other things! If our partners are deliberately and purposefully leaving a committed and loving relationship to fill a void and selfish need than YES it is very wrong!

I may have completely misinterpreted your question, but it came across as you are defending these men as they have a right to seek sex & intimacy at anyone's expense. It came across as very entitling and dismissive of what these H's have actually done. I hope I read that wrong.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

brokenhearted118 said:


> I AM SHOCKED BY THIS REMARK? Any person who expects sex & intimacy from anyone OUTSIDE their marriage is a sick F'ing sex addict amongst other things! If our partners are deliberately and purposefully leaving a committed and loving relationship to fill a void and selfish need than YES it is very wrong!
> 
> I may have completely misinterpreted your question, but it came across as you are defending these men as they have a right to seek sex & intimacy at anyone's expense. It came across as very entitling and dismissive of what these H's have actually done. I hope I read that wrong.


I'm not defending men, I'm defending SPOUSES. I was asking, do you think that a spouse should expect some level of sex and intimacy from there partner, or is it OK to shut them off because you don't feel like it.


Remember, women are being cheated but so are men. People are being betrayed.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> I'm not defending men, I'm defending SPOUSES. I was asking, do you think that a spouse should expect some level of sex and intimacy from there partner, or is it OK to shut them off because you don't feel like it.
> 
> 
> Remember, women are being cheated but so are men. People are being betrayed.


Why jump to the conclusion that the OP had shut of sex with her husband? There are some people (yes, I was married to one) who, even in the case of enthusiastic marital sex 3-5 times a week, will still be out there looking for a little something extra on the side. Because they aren't looking to fill a void created by lack of sex and intimacy with their spouse. They're looking to have sex with people who are new, different, and _not_ their spouse. 

Not all men are like that. Just as not all women are frigid harpies getting off on torturing their husbands by withholding sex. Let's please not stoop to harassing a BW because we _imagine_, in the absence of any information indicating such, she must not have been providing if her husband was out cruising for some strange.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> This is a long story so I'll try to keep it concise. I've been married 17 years to the man I considered the love of my life. We have truly been best friends and I (and everyone that knew us) always believed we were true soulmates. 5 years ago I discovered that my H had opened an adult dating site account and confronted him. We went to marriage counseling and he claimed that nothing ever happened, he was just curious, etc, etc.
> 
> Now I know that it's foolish, but I believed him. I believed that he valued me and our beautiful children enough not to gamble with our future. Fast forward to the present when after about a year of him becoming increasingly distant I began to suspect that more was going on and of course he blamed his moodiness on job stress. Well, he got sloppy and I have now found out that he has physically cheated on me since at leas 2009 with at least 6-7 people (i honestly suspect there are more). This doesn't even include the countless people he's had cyber sex with or TRIED to hook up with.
> 
> ...


Punkin head. I'm so sorry for what you are dealing with. I know how you feel. After 8 years of privacy in my marriage (the whole marriage) H finally gave me his passords. Most of his history was deleted but I found escorts in his email contacts and a subscription (with paid credits) to A.M (married persons dating site) and a subscription to another dating site. He swears it was just fantasy and never crossed the line. He travels all the time so he has plenty of opportunity. I'm at a crossroads as to whether or not to believe him. He's lied to me over and over again. After reading your story it seems that if I chose to believe him my life will be riddled with infidelity. It sux. I advise you get out now despite his pleading. I am doing the same.


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

DLS: The OP said the following: I've been married 17 years to the man I considered the love of my life. We have truly been best friends and I (and everyone that knew us) always believed we were true soulmates.

Where did you get the idea that she was "withholding"? Again, it sounds like you are saying that her H had the "right" to seek sex and intimacy outside of the M. NO ONE has that right, even if the spouse is "withholding" The solution is quite simple, IF your needs are not being met with sex, intimacy, communication, etc...LEAVE the marriage and do NOT cheat. Man or woman up and have enough respect for your spouse and yourself (and your kids) and get out of the unfulfilled relationship. Go find yourself, and if your partner is there and willing to forgive, reconcile or remarry than that is a choice. CHEATING is NEVER acceptable on any level and there is no justification to ever be made. It is cold, calculated, cruel and selfish!


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> This is a long story so I'll try to keep it concise. I've been married 17 years to the man I considered the love of my life. We have truly been best friends and I (and everyone that knew us) always believed we were true soulmates. 5 years ago I discovered that my H had opened an adult dating site account and confronted him. We went to marriage counseling and he claimed that nothing ever happened, he was just curious, etc, etc.
> 
> Now I know that it's foolish, but I believed him. I believed that he valued me and our beautiful children enough not to gamble with our future. Fast forward to the present when after about a year of him becoming increasingly distant I began to suspect that more was going on and of course he blamed his moodiness on job stress. Well, he got sloppy and I have now found out that he has physically cheated on me since at leas 2009 with at least 6-7 people (i honestly suspect there are more). This doesn't even include the countless people he's had cyber sex with or TRIED to hook up with.
> 
> ...


What's wrong with you?

You're a loving, caring and devoted wife and mother. You look beyond the immediate pain/gratification of things and at the big picture.

The problem here isn't you, it's your husband. He's not THAT type of husband.

Nothing is wrong with you other than you picked the wrong man. Luckily you can fix that problem.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Rowan said:


> Why jump to the conclusion that the OP had shut of sex with her husband? There are some people (yes, I was married to one) who, even in the case of enthusiastic marital sex 3-5 times a week, will still be out there looking for a little something extra on the side. Because they aren't looking to fill a void created by lack of sex and intimacy with their spouse. They're looking to have sex with people who are new, different, and _not_ their spouse.
> 
> Not all men are like that. Just as not all women are frigid harpies getting off on torturing their husbands by withholding sex. Let's please not stoop to harassing a BW because we _imagine_, in the absence of any information indicating such, she must not have been providing if her husband was out cruising for some strange.


Alot of the people who do this are either copy catting the cheating off of movies and the excitement that must be behind it or trying to impress a crowd their hanging with. Perhaps spouse is drinking alot with singles and that life just seems so much better than the predictibility and reliability of a stable household and relationship. So they get a lady out in the same party environment.

I was just getting your take on it, not blaming.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Let me clarify what I mean when I say my husband is a sex addict. First of all, we had sex almost daily... good sex. And we experimented and tried to keep things fresh and exciting. But in addition, he spent every waking hour when not at work online looking at porn and trolling for sex partners. I'm talking hours... from the time he got home from work til 2 or 3 AM. He stopped seeing his friends, stopped doing things with his family... his fantasy world took up ALL his time. He jeopardized his job by having cybersex in his WORK OFFICE. He risked everything for some cheap thrills.

That is what I mean by a sex addict. This is not normal sexual drive; this is someone who elevated sex to the primary priority in his life. He hid it well for a long time and was not one to go partying or hang out with a questionable crowd. In fact, he seemed to prefer being home more than ever in the past year... but I didn't understand that it was because he couldn't be pulled away from his online activity.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> Let me clarify what I mean when I say my husband is a sex addict. First of all, we had sex almost daily... good sex. But in addition, he spent every waking hour when not at work online looking at porn and trolling for sex partners. I'm talking hours... from the time he got home from work til 2 or 3 AM. He stopped seeing his friends, stopped doing things with his family... his fantasy world took up ALL his time. He jeopardized his job by having cybersex in his WORK OFFICE. He risked everything for some cheap thrills.
> 
> That is what I mean by a sex addict. This is not normal sexual drive; this is someone who elevated sex to the primary priority in his life.


If he had sex with you almost every day, but did not seek porn or outside partners would you call that a "sex addict"? The reason I ask is some of us men don't want to cheat on our partners, but we want a fulfilling sex-life. I don't mind missing a few days a week or periods.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Daddy,

I'm not sure I understand your question. Wanting a fufilling sex life does not make one a sex addict. And he DID seek porn, outside partners, you name it. I think partners should communicate and both try to have fulfilling sex lives together. But he was not communicating, was cheating, didn't even want to go on vacation because he couldn't take his computer and access his profile (didn't figure that part out til after the miserable vacation). He has been diagnosed as a sex addict... tried 12 steps (with very little effort). There is no question he is a sex addict.

Having a high sex drive, rich fantasies and a desire to have more sex in your life does not make you an addict. The fact that you would risk everything for one cheap encounter and keep doing it even though its ruining your life... that makes a person a sex addict.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> If he had sex with you almost every day, but did not seek porn or outside partners would you call that a "sex addict"? The reason I ask is some of us men don't want to cheat on our partners, but we want a fulfilling sex-life. I don't mind missing a few days a week or periods.


Having sex with your spouse daily is not sex addiction. It is an active sex life. Feeling the need to go beyond the marriage and pursue other sexual activities (either online or in person) causes desensitization that reduces sexual gradification. Thus, it takes more to get excited and causes the addict to continue to push the envelope. Suddenly moral barriers become confused and you have a serial cheater. Not saying that all guys that are into porn become sex addicts. I'm saying that porn is a gateway and when watched in excess can develop into sexual desensitization which leads to a sex addiction.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

GottaKnow said:


> Punkin head. I'm so sorry for what you are dealing with. I know how you feel. After 8 years of privacy in my marriage (the whole marriage) H finally gave me his passords. Most of his history was deleted but I found escorts in his email contacts and a subscription (with paid credits) to A.M (married persons dating site) and a subscription to another dating site. He swears it was just fantasy and never crossed the line. He travels all the time so he has plenty of opportunity. I'm at a crossroads as to whether or not to believe him. He's lied to me over and over again. After reading your story it seems that if I chose to believe him my life will be riddled with infidelity. It sux. I advise you get out now despite his pleading. I am doing the same.


GottaKnow,
I have learned the hard way that it takes a tremendous amount of work for a sex addict to actually turn their lives around. It can and DOES happen, but only when the addict is truly remorseful and works very hard at it. The fact that your H gave you his passwords is a good sign; we have never gotten to that point in my marriage and I can't envision him ever giving me his passwords. I'm so sorry you are going through this and I pray that you find the strength to make the right decision for you (no matter what it is). I do believe that miracles can happen, if both parties want them to.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> If he had sex with you almost every day, but did not seek porn or outside partners would you call that a "sex addict"? The reason I ask is some of us men don't want to cheat on our partners, but we want a fulfilling sex-life. I don't mind missing a few days a week or periods.


If having an active sex life is more important that your feelings for your partner, you should end your relationship (or marriage) and pursue an active sex life. If your feelings for your partner are stronger than your own desires you should discuss the lack of sexual attention with your partner and try to fix the relationship. Under no circumstances is it ok to cheat because you want an active sex life.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> If he had sex with you almost every day, but did not seek porn or outside partners would you call that a "sex addict"? The reason I ask is some of us men don't want to cheat on our partners, but we want a fulfilling sex-life. I don't mind missing a few days a week or periods.


I'm just curious as to how grilling the OP on the technicalities of her husband's sexual issues is supposed to be helpful to her? Or in any way answer her original question? 

Perhaps, if this is all merely curiosity on your part, you might post your questions regarding sexual addiction (or impulsiveness, or whatever one wishes to term it) on Sex in Marriage. Posting them here just gives a vibe that you're trying to either justify her husband's cheating by blaming the BW, or are simply being argumentative and unpleasant.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> GottaKnow,
> I have learned the hard way that it takes a tremendous amount of work for a sex addict to actually turn their lives around. It can and DOES happen, but only when the addict is truly remorseful and works very hard at it. The fact that your H gave you his passwords is a good sign; we have never gotten to that point in my marriage and I can't envision him ever giving me his passwords. I'm so sorry you are going through this and I pray that you find the strength to make the right decision for you (no matter what it is). I do believe that miracles can happen, if both parties want them to.


Thanks. The problem is he cleared the history first and deleted files and email accounts. Then he lied to me over and over again. So I don't know if he's still lying or if this is a problem I will be facing my whole life. He has never owned up to anything other than the hard evidence I found and excused all that away too. So, if he's truly remorseful he would be transparent and answer my questions honestly versus wanting to sweep it under the rug and move forward. So I'm quite confused. He did give me his passwords but he had several hidden accounts and when I found out about them he deleted them and he transfers his computer files to his phone and hides the sd cards. So I think he's trying to placate me. I dont know. I feel like my mind's in a blender. 

How did you find out about the infidelity? I would do almost anything to just know.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

GottaKnow said:


> Thanks. The problem is he cleared the history first and deleted files and email accounts. Then he lied to me over and over again. So I don't know if he's still lying or if this is a problem I will be facing my whole life. He has never owned up to anything other than the hard evidence I found and excused all that away too. So, if he's truly remorseful he would be transparent and answer my questions honestly versus wanting to sweep it under the rug and move forward. So I'm quite confused. He did give me his passwords but he had several hidden accounts and when I found out about them he deleted them and he transfers his computer files to his phone and hides the sd cards. So I think he's trying to placate me. I dont know. I feel like my mind's in a blender.
> 
> How did you find out about the infidelity? I would do almost anything to just know.


To tell you the truth I would never have found out if he hadn't gotten sloppy. My WH is a network administrator and computer programmer and has our home computers locked down like Fort Knox. I had PLENTY of suspicion but no actual proof. Until one day, he left flash drives lying on the desk in our bedroom. I really did not make a habit of snooping on him but for some reason my intuition told me to look at those flash drives. And there they were, videos of him screwing other women. Not just one. And yes, he was dumb enough to video tape AND save it. One of the women was even a high school girlfriend he connected with on FB. All the others were random women he met on adult sex sites. I can't imagine a worse way to find out and those images are seared into my brain. But I think I had to have something like this happen to snap me out of denial and believing his lies - he is one hell of a convincing liar. The best part is he even tried to deny it was him on the video (because you couldn't see his face... are you kidding me? He was there wearing his wedding ring screwing another woman and I could hear his voice. What a [email protected]


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> To tell you the truth I would never have found out if he hadn't gotten sloppy. My WH is a network administrator and computer programmer and has our home computers locked down like Fort Knox. I had PLENTY of suspicion but no actual proof. Until one day, he left flash drives lying on the desk in our bedroom. I really did not make a habit of snooping on him but for some reason my intuition told me to look at those flash drives. And there they were, videos of him screwing other women. Not just one. And yes, he was dumb enough to video tape AND save it. One of the women was even a high school girlfriend he connected with on FB. All the others were random women he met on adult sex sites. I can't imagine a worse way to find out and those images are seared into my brain. But I think I had to have something like this happen to snap me out of denial and believing his lies - he is one hell of a convincing liar. The best part is he even tried to deny it was him on the video (because you couldn't see his face... are you kidding me? He was there wearing his wedding ring screwing another woman and I could hear his voice. What a [email protected]


Wow. I'm so sorry. That must have been absolutely horrifying. And to have him add further insult by trying to deny it after you'd seen those videos? Just truly, truly, terrible.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> To tell you the truth I would never have found out if he hadn't gotten sloppy. My WH is a network administrator and computer programmer and has our home computers locked down like Fort Knox. I had PLENTY of suspicion but no actual proof. Until one day, he left flash drives lying on the desk in our bedroom. I really did not make a habit of snooping on him but for some reason my intuition told me to look at those flash drives. And there they were, videos of him screwing other women. Not just one. And yes, he was dumb enough to video tape AND save it. One of the women was even a high school girlfriend he connected with on FB. All the others were random women he met on adult sex sites. I can't imagine a worse way to find out and those images are seared into my brain. But I think I had to have something like this happen to snap me out of denial and believing his lies - he is one hell of a convincing liar. The best part is he even tried to deny it was him on the video (because you couldn't see his face... are you kidding me? He was there wearing his wedding ring screwing another woman and I could hear his voice. What a [email protected]


Did he really want to embarrass and hurt his wife like this?


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

In his warped-thinking, his 2 worlds didn't touch one another and never would. He had his real life in one compartment and his secret life in another. And it truly was a secret life. No one, not even his closest friends knew or even suspected this was going on. I'm telling you he can lie to your face and you really do believe it. 

He is not remorseful; he's sorry he got caught. Two very different things. He's even said that he doesn't think he really did anything wrong because I'm the one he loved and I'm the one he always came home to. And, the worst thing he said was that if the situation was reversed he would always forgive me :bsflag:


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> In his warped-thinking, his 2 worlds didn't touch one another and never would. He had his real life in one compartment and his secret life in another. And it truly was a secret life. No one, not even his closest friends knew or even suspected this was going on. I'm telling you he can lie to your face and you really do believe it.
> 
> He is not remorseful; he's sorry he got caught. Two very different things. He's even said that he doesn't think he really did anything wrong because I'm the one he loved and I'm the one he always came home to. And, the worst thing he said was that if the situation was reversed he would always forgive me :bsflag:


Divorce Busting® - How to Save Your Marriage, Solve Marriage Problems, and Stop Divorce is the website designed for attempting to recover relationships which are victim of affairs.

If you can completely destroy his affair world then you may have a chance with him, but then again you can blow up the affair world and he will keep on running.

You destroy it by airing the information to the people he's having affairs with.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> To tell you the truth I would never have found out if he hadn't gotten sloppy. My WH is a network administrator and computer programmer and has our home computers locked down like Fort Knox. I had PLENTY of suspicion but no actual proof. Until one day, he left flash drives lying on the desk in our bedroom. I really did not make a habit of snooping on him but for some reason my intuition told me to look at those flash drives. And there they were, videos of him screwing other women. Not just one. And yes, he was dumb enough to video tape AND save it. One of the women was even a high school girlfriend he connected with on FB. All the others were random women he met on adult sex sites. I can't imagine a worse way to find out and those images are seared into my brain. But I think I had to have something like this happen to snap me out of denial and believing his lies - he is one hell of a convincing liar. The best part is he even tried to deny it was him on the video (because you couldn't see his face... are you kidding me? He was there wearing his wedding ring screwing another woman and I could hear his voice. What a [email protected]


Well I'm sorry that you had to see that but I'm in your situation prior to finding the evidence and I have to say I would be so relieved to find what my gut is telling me. It would give me closure. Not having closure is the hardest part of this. My best to you.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> In his warped-thinking, his 2 worlds didn't touch one another and never would. He had his real life in one compartment and his secret life in another. And it truly was a secret life. No one, not even his closest friends knew or even suspected this was going on. I'm telling you he can lie to your face and you really do believe it.
> 
> He is not remorseful; he's sorry he got caught. Two very different things. He's even said that he doesn't think he really did anything wrong because I'm the one he loved and I'm the one he always came home to. And, the worst thing he said was that if the situation was reversed he would always forgive me :bsflag:


OMG, I think we married the same guy! Damn... Mine lied to me with tears in his eyes. Then I found more evidence and he lied again. I believe he's still lying, although he maintains he didn't cheat and had no intent to (AM subscription and escorts in his contacts and no intent). Anyway, he lies so well you find yourself believing him regardless of the evidence. Tell me his initials aren't SDS (lol).


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## Poppy (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow. I am so sorry. My story is so similar it's scary. I am 19 months into this. Still with him. Turns out he has been addicted to porn for over 25 years. I now know of 4 affairs and at least 7 prostitutes. Never been faithful. Married 15 years. Two kids. He is a sex addict and has been going to therapy twice a week for over a year. It is a long and hard and painful road you are on. He too was the love of my life. Been together since we were 17. Now 40. I got the truth out of him over the course of a year. Some I found out myself and some he finally admitted to. Hold onto your hat....there will be more. My advice? Get out now. You will never get that special feeling back. You will never trust like you did before. Move on and have peace of mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Gotta know and punkin, read up on manipulative behaviour, projection, gaslighting. There is some good resources out there. Also, personality disorders.

And then, once you realise there is no help for them, only help to help themselves WHEN they want it and not before, get out of there. 

I really feel for you. Both in awful situations. Only misery is what you have to look forward to with these men IMO. Sorry.

And daddy short, he is as useful in this thread as a chocolate teapot! 

Sorry to hear your stories. I hope you resolve this shortly and swiftly.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

GottaKnow said:


> OMG, I think we married the same guy! Damn... Mine lied to me with tears in his eyes. Then I found more evidence and he lied again. I believe he's still lying, although he maintains he didn't cheat and had no intent to (AM subscription and escorts in his contacts and no intent). Anyway, he lies so well you find yourself believing him regardless of the evidence. Tell me his initials aren't SDS (lol).


@ gottaknow - nope not the same guy, but heck I wouldn't have been surprised if it was :rofl: I don't want to sway you one way or the other on the issue of whether to stay or run because that's a decision only you can make and you have to be at peace with it. No one else should get a say in this matter. But I will tell you that I was in your shoes and that I stayed only to have my worst fears confirmed. I couldn't prove anything and truly didnt want to know, so I buried my head and focused on being a great wife so he'd see what he'd be missing. Guess what, they only eat that up and it doesn't change a thing. They're doing what they want to do and no amount of snooping, begging, or even coddling them will change that. I first found out about his online dating site accounts in 2008 and if I'd known then what I know now, I would have left and never looked back.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Poppy said:


> Wow. I am so sorry. My story is so similar it's scary. I am 19 months into this. Still with him. Turns out he has been addicted to porn for over 25 years. I now know of 4 affairs and at least 7 prostitutes. Never been faithful. Married 15 years. Two kids. He is a sex addict and has been going to therapy twice a week for over a year. It is a long and hard and painful road you are on. He too was the love of my life. Been together since we were 17. Now 40. I got the truth out of him over the course of a year. Some I found out myself and some he finally admitted to. Hold onto your hat....there will be more. My advice? Get out now. You will never get that special feeling back. You will never trust like you did before. Move on and have peace of mind.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Poppy - you are so right. That special feeling is lost forever. It was lost when I first discovered his online activity where "nothing ever happened." And with this latest discovery that special feeling was hung, drawn and quartered, set on fire and then stamped on! I move further away from reconciliation with every passing day and honestly I think he really believes that I'm just going to get over it and when his apartment lease expires he'll just move right back in and we'll be one big happy family. Delusional:scratchhead:


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Remains said:


> Gotta know and punkin, read up on manipulative behaviour, projection, gaslighting. There is some good resources out there. Also, personality disorders.
> 
> And then, once you realise there is no help for them, only help to help themselves WHEN they want it and not before, get out of there.
> 
> ...


Remains, Thank you. I have studied up on gaslighting, blameshifting, and trickle truth. But projection is new. I'll look into that. I love your signature. So true.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

How amazing would it be if all of us - Punkin, Gottaknow, Poppy - suffering these sooooo similar stories could have a ladies wine night and share it all in a safe, real place. I would love to commiserate in person, but alas, TAM is as good as it gets.

This is such a confusing period. I feel kind of like a kid who is grown and now realizes that his parent kidnapped him and that his life has been a lie. I don't know... I'm having difficulty because my husband is two people - and one of them I still love, but the other, wow, is so destructive. Poppy's comment about the loss of that special feeling made me really sad. I've become very cold and I'm so confused about how I feel in his presence. That special feeling is long gone. I can't accept it yet though.


Finally, remains... I'm glad someone said it and with humor:
"And daddy short, he is as useful in this thread as a chocolate teapot!":iagree:


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> Poppy - you are so right. That special feeling is lost forever. It was lost when I first discovered his online activity where "nothing ever happened." And with this latest discovery that special feeling was hung, drawn and quartered, set on fire and then stamped on! I move further away from reconciliation with every passing day and honestly I think he really believes that I'm just going to get over it and when his apartment lease expires he'll just move right back in and we'll be one big happy family. Delusional:scratchhead:


That special feeling was finally "hung, drawn and quartered, set on fire and then stamped on" a week ago for me. It's getting harder to conceive reconciling ever working out and at the same I'm not ready to embrace the alternative. Ughh ughhh ughhh and for superficial stupid stupid reasons our lives are being thrown out the window. Not only is my life upside down but also my views on the world have been totally shaken. And I feel so alone. I did tell my sister. But strangely it gave me no satisfaction to share it with her - though some relief. I prefer to speak with strangers who aren't connected to any preconceptions of what my life was like or was supposed to be like.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

totallyunexpected said:


> How amazing would it be if all of us - Punkin, Gottaknow, Poppy - suffering these sooooo similar stories could have a ladies wine night and share it all in a safe, real place. I would love to commiserate in person, but alas, TAM is as good as it gets.
> 
> This is such a confusing period. I feel kind of like a kid who is grown and now realizes that his parent kidnapped him and that his life has been a lie. I don't know... I'm having difficulty because my husband is two people - and one of them I still love, but the other, wow, is so destructive. Poppy's comment about the loss of that special feeling made me really sad. I've become very cold and I'm so confused about how I feel in his presence. That special feeling is long gone. I can't accept it yet though.
> 
> ...


ahh - a ladies wine night with such great company would be so welcome. Although, our husbands might not fare so well after we all get done comparing and plotting :lol:

One thing I did differently with this dday was that I told ALL my friends everything, including family, mutual friends and neighbors. In the past I kept everything to myself out of shame and it feels good not to carry his secret around anymore. I've done nothing wrong so why should I cover anything up. As a result, I've grown stronger friendships and had more support than I ever thought possible.

Ladies, stay strong! We will figure this out and become better people as a result of these challenges. Whether our husbands become better people or not is completely out of our hands.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

Punkin,

I also wanted to say that like you I really believed I had a strong marriage and my husband - even after all his disgusting behavior - has consistently laid the blame on himself. I begged him to tell me what I was doing wrong and blah blah blah (early on in discovering). He didn't want me to change in any way whatsoever. He was SATISFIED and HAPPY with our marriage, but STILL seeking sexual gratification elsewhere (and yes we had a healthy sex life). 

My mom always told me that affairs don't just happen. That marriages have problems before it gets so bad that someone gets involved in an affair. Sorry Mom, but you were wrong. 

So are you all - BS's suffering due to sex addict infidelity - trying to help your WS's get therapy or is it on them to do so?


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Totally,

I would say that at first he completely blamed himself for his behavior and seemed willing to get help (about 5 years ago). He went to SLA (Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous) for about 6 months and really seemed to go through the motions. However the deeper he has fallen into this trap, the better he has gotten at finding ways to avoid responsibility. He even said recently(get this...) that he never believed he was a Sex Addict and that he felt that if he was going to be "forced" to go to SLA meetings he might as well start doing the things he was fantasizing about and earn the right to go to the meetings. He still maintains that he loves me, is attracted to me, blah blah blah. The only thing I do wrong is that I won't engage in swinger-type lifestyle with him.

So to answer your question... YES, if he was willing to get help I'd drive him to the appointments myself. But he has to want the help and BELIEVE in it or it will never happen. In my case, I really don't think it will ever happen.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> Totally,
> 
> I would say that at first he completely blamed himself for his behavior and seemed willing to get help (about 5 years ago). He went to SLA (Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous) for about 6 months and really seemed to go through the motions. However the deeper he has fallen into this trap, the better he has gotten at finding ways to avoid responsibility. He even said recently(get this...) that he never believed he was a Sex Addict and that he felt that if he was going to be "forced" to go to SLA meetings he might as well start doing the things he was fantasizing about and earn the right to go to the meetings. He still maintains that he loves me, is attracted to me, blah blah blah. The only thing I do wrong is that I won't engage in swinger-type lifestyle with him.
> 
> So to answer your question... YES, if he was willing to get help I'd drive him to the appointments myself. But he has to want the help and BELIEVE in it or it will never happen. In my case, I really don't think it will ever happen.


OMG Seriously... the things that go through their minds?! At least you now know that you did all you could do and that you can't change him for him. It in a way sets you free. Or at least it pushes you further into that detached, cold territory where I hear we become prepared for divorce and finally moving on.


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## Poppy (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah. It gets worse. My H thinks its ok to talk to me about being fu!ked by numerous men whilst we have sex. Anyway...as we speak he has just left. My codependent side is freaking out but not as bad as previously. My strong side is telling me he should go and I should let him. This is just too damn hard and damage is too great. Stay strong girls...don't be me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

totallyunexpected said:


> OMG Seriously... the things that go through their minds?! At least you now know that you did all you could do and that you can't change him for him. It in a way sets you free. Or at least it pushes you further into that detached, cold territory where I hear we become prepared for divorce and finally moving on.


@Totally,
You are right in that I did all the "nice and supportive" things i could do to save this marriage. Heck, I even briefly considered ( although not with any intention to do so) his request that we become swingers. He actually said this would stop him for cheating and there wouldn't be any secrets between us (Yeah right). But the truth is the thought turns my stomach. I'm a one-man woman and i believe in faithfulness.

The thing I have not done right is that I haven't detached from him. We are separated, but he still comes here to see the kids (when he shows up), he doesn't take them for overnights, and generally has zero responsibility now. It's like I gave him a pass to be on permanent vacation. Now I HAVE to do the 180 and show him the consequences of his actions. It will be hard because I do love him, but the way I'm handling this is just letting him get away with doing whatever he wants to do.

I'm going to be strong now and follow through on this... not so much because I'm hopeful for R, but because I need to let go and prepare myself for D.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Poppy said:


> Yeah. It gets worse. My H thinks its ok to talk to me about being fu!ked by numerous men whilst we have sex. Anyway...as we speak he has just left. My codependent side is freaking out but not as bad as previously. My strong side is telling me he should go and I should let him. This is just too damn hard and damage is too great. Stay strong girls...don't be me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


@Poppy,
I'm so sorry you are going through this. When we first separated, I had anxiety attacks like crazy just picturing him using all his free time to cheat on me. And who knows, that probably is what he's doing. But the difference is now, it's not being rubbed in my face by knowing he's texting, emailing, surfing the net while sitting in MY house. It's been hard but I'm starting (little by little) to feel glad he's gone and that his lies can't touch me anymore.

I had a friend go through a similar situation and she told me that the day she moved out was the first day she'd felt safe from his emotional abuse. I'm starting to see what she means by that. My IC (formerly MC) told me in our last session that he hates seeing me abused this way and I stopped and thought "What? I've never been abused." But the truth is treating someone the way our H's do IS abuse. No, they might not hit us or yell at us or insult us. In fact they're very loving. But they abuse our trust and disrepect us until we feel hopeless and that is abuse.


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

All of your comments make so much sense to me. I can truly relate. I too thought we had what I considered and "ideal" marriage until my life came crumbling down in January. H and I are reconciling and I do see him making significant efforts. The trust thing for me is the hardest part to regain. We spend an exorbitant amount of time discussing our feelings and where things went wrong. 

A brief recap, H was going online to chat sites and having very explicit sex chats with numerous women. (maybe 50-60+) over a 30 day period. With a few it became more "intimate" where they were privately (secretly) e-mailing with sweet messages and photos of one another. So very painful and hurtful! Unless, I had uncovered it, who knows where it could have gone. 

Which brings me to my point. As I said, we have spent a lot of time discussing the why's of the A. Here I was under the impression of a perfect marriage...so what happened? He tries to explain that after 20 years of marriage and 2 teens, he got bored, he was curious, he was having a midlife crisis and was questioning his validity with other women. He swears that he never viewed it as cheating initially (does now) and was only looking for affirmation that he was still desired and attractive. It made me stop and wonder. Doesn't everyone wonder that at some point? I am struggling with that answer because, if everyone has those thoughts, why did he think it was ok to BETRAY me to fuel his own ego? Why wasn't my validation enough? Again, it's so painful. After DDay I discovered how "addicted" he was. Literally, if I walked out of the room to go to the bathroom, he was checking his private e-mail and sometimes it was 20+ times a day. While I was cooking his dinner, he was chatting! WOW, how does someone do that?! How do you get past such deception and selfishness? How do we know for sure that those feelings/insecurities are gone and won't re-surface? That is the hardest part. The love is there, the desire is there, but the trust and safety is shattered. I am curious as to what explanations you were given as to why they say that they strayed in the first place? How do you find the strength and ability to trust again?


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

brokenhearted118 said:


> Here I was under the impression of a perfect marriage...so what happened? He tries to explain that after 20 years of marriage and 2 teens, he got bored, he was curious, he was having a midlife crisis and was questioning his validity with other women. He swears that he never viewed it as cheating initially (does now) and was only looking for affirmation that he was still desired and attractive. It made me stop and wonder. Doesn't everyone wonder that at some point? I am struggling with that answer because, if everyone has those thoughts, why did he think it was ok to BETRAY me to fuel his own ego? Why wasn't my validation enough? Again, it's so painful.


I swear our husbands are reading from the same script. The only real deviation in my husband's explanation was that he wanted to do all these things WITH me... meaning it's somehow my fault for not embracing the swinger lifestyle he's so infatuated with. 

I'm not sure how you ever get the trust back. It's exhausting to play babysitter and watch over my shoulder all the time wondering what he's doing that he shouldn't be. At this point, the only way I could save my marriage is to either stop caring about what he's doing or join him in his escapades. Neither option seems very appealing to me.

And you're right... we have those thoughts too! We are aging too and pondering our mortality - the difference is we didn't trampel our spouse's feelings to stoke our own egos. It's extremely difficult to look at someone the same way after they are so willing to sacrifice you to their whims. Selfish doesn't even begin to describe the mindset.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

totallyunexpected said:


> How amazing would it be if all of us - Punkin, Gottaknow, Poppy - suffering these sooooo similar stories could have a ladies wine night and share it all in a safe, real place. I would love to commiserate in person, but alas, TAM is as good as it gets.
> 
> This is such a confusing period. I feel kind of like a kid who is grown and now realizes that his parent kidnapped him and that his life has been a lie. I don't know... I'm having difficulty because my husband is two people - and one of them I still love, but the other, wow, is so destructive. Poppy's comment about the loss of that special feeling made me really sad. I've become very cold and I'm so confused about how I feel in his presence. That special feeling is long gone. I can't accept it yet though.
> 
> ...


I'd be down for some wine and good company. :absolut:


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

totallyunexpected said:


> Punkin,
> 
> I also wanted to say that like you I really believed I had a strong marriage and my husband - even after all his disgusting behavior - has consistently laid the blame on himself. I begged him to tell me what I was doing wrong and blah blah blah (early on in discovering). He didn't want me to change in any way whatsoever. He was SATISFIED and HAPPY with our marriage, but STILL seeking sexual gratification elsewhere (and yes we had a healthy sex life).
> 
> ...


I think it's completely up to them to seek help. If they don't decide to get help and seek it out themselves they aren't committed to change. Mine hasn't even attempted to get help and that speaks volumes to me.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

Poppy said:


> Yeah. It gets worse. My H thinks its ok to talk to me about being fu!ked by numerous men whilst we have sex. Anyway...as we speak he has just left. My codependent side is freaking out but not as bad as previously. My strong side is telling me he should go and I should let him. This is just too damn hard and damage is too great. Stay strong girls...don't be me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Poppy,

When guys are sex addicts they become desensitized and require more to get excited. Next thing you know you're playing the star role in their personal porno movie. This is an example of him needing to go to extremes. It's like a drug addiction...they need more and more to get their high.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> @Poppy,
> I'm so sorry you are going through this. When we first separated, I had anxiety attacks like crazy just picturing him using all his free time to cheat on me. And who knows, that probably is what he's doing. But the difference is now, it's not being rubbed in my face by knowing he's texting, emailing, surfing the net while sitting in MY house. It's been hard but I'm starting (little by little) to feel glad he's gone and that his lies can't touch me anymore.
> 
> I had a friend go through a similar situation and she told me that the day she moved out was the first day she'd felt safe from his emotional abuse. I'm starting to see what she means by that. My IC (formerly MC) told me in our last session that he hates seeing me abused this way and I stopped and thought "What? I've never been abused." But the truth is treating someone the way our H's do IS abuse. No, they might not hit us or yell at us or insult us. In fact they're very loving. But they abuse our trust and disrepect us until we feel hopeless and that is abuse.


Punkinhead,

The abuse isn't just the infidelity. It's the denial, blame shifting, and gas lighting. What's abusive is making us feel like we are going insane balancing their denials with what we know to be the truth. It makes us question reality. I am going through such extremes right now between my hurt and my knowing what happened and his denial and my feeling sorry for him. That is emotional manipulation. Do they really care about us? Or do they care about themselves? If they loved us they would not menatally torture us in an effort to escape the responsibility of their actions.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

brokenhearted118 said:


> All of your comments make so much sense to me. I can truly relate. I too thought we had what I considered and "ideal" marriage until my life came crumbling down in January. H and I are reconciling and I do see him making significant efforts. The trust thing for me is the hardest part to regain. We spend an exorbitant amount of time discussing our feelings and where things went wrong.
> 
> A brief recap, H was going online to chat sites and having very explicit sex chats with numerous women. (maybe 50-60+) over a 30 day period. With a few it became more "intimate" where they were privately (secretly) e-mailing with sweet messages and photos of one another. So very painful and hurtful! Unless, I had uncovered it, who knows where it could have gone.
> 
> Which brings me to my point. As I said, we have spent a lot of time discussing the why's of the A. Here I was under the impression of a perfect marriage...so what happened? He tries to explain that after 20 years of marriage and 2 teens, he got bored, he was curious, he was having a midlife crisis and was questioning his validity with other women. He swears that he never viewed it as cheating initially (does now) and was only looking for affirmation that he was still desired and attractive. It made me stop and wonder. Doesn't everyone wonder that at some point? I am struggling with that answer because, if everyone has those thoughts, why did he think it was ok to BETRAY me to fuel his own ego? Why wasn't my validation enough? Again, it's so painful. After DDay I discovered how "addicted" he was. Literally, if I walked out of the room to go to the bathroom, he was checking his private e-mail and sometimes it was 20+ times a day. While I was cooking his dinner, he was chatting! WOW, how does someone do that?! How do you get past such deception and selfishness? How do we know for sure that those feelings/insecurities are gone and won't re-surface? That is the hardest part. The love is there, the desire is there, but the trust and safety is shattered. I am curious as to what explanations you were given as to why they say that they strayed in the first place? How do you find the strength and ability to trust again?


Good for you for trying to work through this. Keep an eye on him. Sexual addiction doesn't just stop. Getting to the point he has gotten takes small incremental steps over a long period of time. Keep your eyes open. If he continues to engage in this behavior you will need to hold him accountable or else he won't feel the fear of loss.

I wish I could answer your question. I don't know how you find the strength to trust again. i wish you the best.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> I swear our husbands are reading from the same script. The only real deviation in my husband's explanation was that he wanted to do all these things WITH me... meaning it's somehow my fault for not embracing the swinger lifestyle he's so infatuated with.
> 
> I'm not sure how you ever get the trust back. It's exhausting to play babysitter and watch over my shoulder all the time wondering what he's doing that he shouldn't be. At this point, the only way I could save my marriage is to either stop caring about what he's doing or join him in his escapades. Neither option seems very appealing to me.
> 
> And you're right... we have those thoughts too! We are aging too and pondering our mortality - the difference is we didn't trampel our spouse's feelings to stoke our own egos. It's extremely difficult to look at someone the same way after they are so willing to sacrifice you to their whims. Selfish doesn't even begin to describe the mindset.


It's narcisistic entitlement. I'm sure you explained to him "what is the big deal having sex with the same people that everybody else is too?".


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

GottaKnow said:


> Punkinhead,
> 
> Do they really care about us? Or do they care about themselves? If they loved us they would not menatally torture us in an effort to escape the responsibility of their actions.


Gotta - The weird thing is I think they do care about us, but there is just something broken in them that makes them unable to care enough. I will say that I know my H has always loved me and still does... in many ways we really are soulmates. But he is too selfish to love the way I need to be loved. I always thought the saying "sometimes love isn't enough" was so ridiculous. The romantic in me says "What do you mean? if you love some one of course its enough!!!" But, sadly, I really understand that saying now.

How are you doing? Do you have anything positive and uplifting planned for yourself this weekend? I'm having dinner with a group of single and divorced women that I've met throughout this process and I have to say that without the support of these strong women, I would still be crumpled in a heap on the floor, crying. So that is one thing I'm definitely learning... no matter who I end up with down the road, I will never again neglect my female friendships. I'm telling you, they can save your sanity


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

totallyunexpected said:


> That special feeling was finally "hung, drawn and quartered, set on fire and then stamped on" a week ago for me. It's getting harder to conceive reconciling ever working out and at the same I'm not ready to embrace the alternative. Ughh ughhh ughhh and for superficial stupid stupid reasons our lives are being thrown out the window. Not only is my life upside down but also my views on the world have been totally shaken. And I feel so alone. I did tell my sister. But strangely it gave me no satisfaction to share it with her - though some relief. I prefer to speak with strangers who aren't connected to any preconceptions of what my life was like or was supposed to be like.


Totally, I'm so sorry that you're trapped in limbo. I'm glad you told your sister. This is a hard story to tell. It's embarrassing, hurtful, and somehow we take it as a reflection of ourselves. But the best thing I did was come out in the open. I've received support from people I would have never thought... his best friend, his mother, his sister, ALL of our mutual friends. I think he's surprised at how many people are just disgusted and want nothing to do with him. My reasons for doing this were two-fold. 1. I'm tired of living in shadows and being afraid someone might discover his secret (i mean who really wants to be married to the neighborhood pervert?) and 2. from everything I've read and been told, sex addicts have to hit ROCK BOTTOM before they will change. 

If losing his family, friends, home, possessions isn't rock bottom for him, then I don't want to stick around to see what rock bottom is!


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> I swear our husbands are reading from the same script. The only real deviation in my husband's explanation was that he wanted to do all these things WITH me... meaning it's somehow my fault for not embracing the swinger lifestyle he's so infatuated with.
> 
> I'm not sure how you ever get the trust back. It's exhausting to play babysitter and watch over my shoulder all the time wondering what he's doing that he shouldn't be. At this point, the only way I could save my marriage is to either stop caring about what he's doing or join him in his escapades. Neither option seems very appealing to me.
> 
> And you're right... we have those thoughts too! We are aging too and pondering our mortality - the difference is we didn't trampel our spouse's feelings to stoke our own egos. It's extremely difficult to look at someone the same way after they are so willing to sacrifice you to their whims. Selfish doesn't even begin to describe the mindset.


When I was younger about 25 yrs old I married someone I had known for 3 months. It was crazy and I know it. She actually proposed to me, ring and all. It really took me for a loop. Near the end we were considering introducing someone else into the relationship. Back then I thought it was cool, but it never happened. The marriage ended soon after that, about a year into it.

Now that I am older I understand how retarded I was. 

I would recall that time when I was this STBXW and think I could NEVER see my wife with someone else. I could NEVER share her. It was the LAST THING ON MY MIND. 

I can't tell you the number of times over the years I would just sit and look at my wife in awe and she would look catch me staring and and say what are you looking at ? 

I would just answer I can't believe how fvcking beautiful and sexy you are.

It's a shame they can't look and recall those times and decide to be decent human beings. I honestly don't get it at all. 

Don't matter now. We will all find someone better and learn from these tragic mistakes. 

The next person will fawn at my feet and sing my praises. They will see I am a good man and a caring man. But also one that should not be tested or challenged. They will know that they should never do ANYTHING that might question their loyalty to me. 

I am saddened beyond belief by this extremely harsh life lesson I needed to learn. But knowing I can survive this, I can survive anything.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

GottaKnow said:


> Punkinhead,
> 
> The abuse isn't just the infidelity. It's the denial, blame shifting, and gas lighting. What's abusive is making us feel like we are going insane balancing their denials with what we know to be the truth. It makes us question reality. I am going through such extremes right now between my hurt and my knowing what happened and his denial and my feeling sorry for him. That is emotional manipulation. Do they really care about us? Or do they care about themselves? If they loved us they would not menatally torture us in an effort to escape the responsibility of their actions.


You have obviously done your time in limbo affair land. "Blameshifting", "gaslighting" and "denial" are some of the common behaviors a LBS has to endure ( Left Behind Spouse ).


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

I came across these 2 threads on here while reading earlier today. I found them to be very valuable and hope it offers some of you some answers as well. This infidelity thing is such a slippery slope, and I keep searching for answers. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28260-taking-ownership.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38890-article-cheaters-how-rebuild-trust.html


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you Brokenhearted. I'll read the links you suggested. I'll take any guidance I can get at this point.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

I feel like I'm finally taking a stand in this separation after waffling so much. For the 6 months we've been apart, I've been seeing texting and calling from numbers I'm reasonably sure are other women (his online slvts). I've said things about it and even asked him to take his cell phone onto a separate bill and nothing has ever happened. So last week I had enough and I called every one of the women and told them that I didn't appreciate having to see the evidence of their slvttish behavior on my cell phone bill and to stop calling/texting immediately. Then I blocked all their numbers.

I did not tell WH about this because I wanted to see how long it would take him to say something to me about it. I think he's finally found out though because he is completely no contact with me and the kids this week. I don't try to contact him, but he'll usually text every day or so to see how the kids are and arrange times to see them. So far, he is acting like we fell off the face of the Earth.

My dilemma is this... I don't feel bad about what I did; in fact, I feel like I had every right to do it and should have done it ages ago. But my kids are sad that they aren't hearing from their dad and I hate it for them so much. How can he be so cold to his own children?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It's not you, it's him. All of it.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> Gotta - The weird thing is I think they do care about us, but there is just something broken in them that makes them unable to care enough. I will say that I know my H has always loved me and still does... in many ways we really are soulmates. But he is too selfish to love the way I need to be loved. I always thought the saying "sometimes love isn't enough" was so ridiculous. The romantic in me says "What do you mean? if you love some one of course its enough!!!" But, sadly, I really understand that saying now.
> 
> How are you doing? Do you have anything positive and uplifting planned for yourself this weekend? I'm having dinner with a group of single and divorced women that I've met throughout this process and I have to say that without the support of these strong women, I would still be crumpled in a heap on the floor, crying. So that is one thing I'm definitely learning... no matter who I end up with down the road, I will never again neglect my female friendships. I'm telling you, they can save your sanity


I agree punkin. They do love us with their own definition of love. But our definitions do not match. To answer your question about this weekend, I had a two day film shoot and today I have a project due for my granduate degree. I do alot of work and very little play. But that's all temporary. I'll be done with my degree soon and these weekend shoots just ended cause the project is coming to completion. Yes I need so fun time. Glad you have a solid group to share with.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> I feel like I'm finally taking a stand in this separation after waffling so much. For the 6 months we've been apart, I've been seeing texting and calling from numbers I'm reasonably sure are other women (his online slvts). I've said things about it and even asked him to take his cell phone onto a separate bill and nothing has ever happened. So last week I had enough and I called every one of the women and told them that I didn't appreciate having to see the evidence of their slvttish behavior on my cell phone bill and to stop calling/texting immediately. Then I blocked all their numbers.
> 
> I did not tell WH about this because I wanted to see how long it would take him to say something to me about it. I think he's finally found out though because he is completely no contact with me and the kids this week. I don't try to contact him, but he'll usually text every day or so to see how the kids are and arrange times to see them. So far, he is acting like we fell off the face of the Earth.
> 
> My dilemma is this... I don't feel bad about what I did; in fact, I feel like I had every right to do it and should have done it ages ago. But my kids are sad that they aren't hearing from their dad and I hate it for them so much. How can he be so cold to his own children?


Punkin,

You cannot control how he choses to interact with the kids. He may just be mad that you called him out. He will either come around and start being dad again or he will decided not too. In any case it is not your fault. You have no control over his decisions to interact with the kids. But be sure to let the kids know that they have nothing to do with this and they are very loved by both of you. Keep reinforcing that message. Something like...daddy's just taking time to regroup right now... That may keep them from getting hurt until he gets over the incident and starts becomming dad again. If he stays m.i.a. you will need to alter your strategy but start simple right now and assure the kids that they have nothing to do with this and daddy is just regrouping. I went through this too. It worked.

Best of luck.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

GottaKnow said:


> Punkin,
> 
> You cannot control how he choses to interact with the kids. He may just be mad that you called him out. He will either come around and start being dad again or he will decided not too. In any case it is not your fault. You have no control over his decisions to interact with the kids. But be sure to let the kids know that they have nothing to do with this and they are very loved by both of you. Keep reinforcing that message. Something like...daddy's just taking time to regroup right now... That may keep them from getting hurt until he gets over the incident and starts becomming dad again. If he stays m.i.a. you will need to alter your strategy but start simple right now and assure the kids that they have nothing to do with this and daddy is just regrouping. I went through this too. It worked.
> 
> Best of luck.


Gotta, did your husband eventually come around and start contacting the kids? If he's trying to hurt me through the kids he's succeeding beyond his wildest dreams. I can accept it if he wants nothing to do with me, but his kids? What kind of selfish, childish @ss does this to his own children?

I haven't reached out to him and I won't but he is destroying his relationship with our daughter. She's 13 and gets that he's sacrificing his family for cheap thrills. I'm not sure he can ever fix things with her.

Thanks for the words of wisdom


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

Punkin, I am so sorry he is trying to manipulate you through your children. Please see his actions for what they are. He is gaslighting you and USING your children to do so. He is sick and twisted and trust me the karma bus will take him down. Please continue to stay strong, from what I have read so far you are doing great! Keep reassuring the kids how much you love them and do what you can to take their mind off of their father. It kinda goes back to when our kids were toddlers, keep re-directing. Stay true to you!!


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Broken,

Thank you for the kind thoughts. I have recently discovered a great Church within the past 6 months and attending every Sunday has been saving my life ( i know it's not everyone's cup of tea so i'm not preaching here). Anyway, today's sermon was about what each of us need to lay at the cross to move on in our lives. Today I laid my marriage at the cross. It's in God's hands. I will move on and continue improving myself, but I cannot invest anymore of myself in my broken husband. I love him and will pray for him.


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

punkinhead said:


> Gotta, did your husband eventually come around and start contacting the kids? If he's trying to hurt me through the kids he's succeeding beyond his wildest dreams. I can accept it if he wants nothing to do with me, but his kids? What kind of selfish, childish @ss does this to his own children?
> 
> I haven't reached out to him and I won't but he is destroying his relationship with our daughter. She's 13 and gets that he's sacrificing his family for cheap thrills. I'm not sure he can ever fix things with her.
> 
> Thanks for the words of wisdom


Well my story is complicated. My children's father (first husband) did an immediate dissappearing act. I assured the kids that he loved them and was "regrouping" and that this had nothing to do with them. He soon got over things and began spending time with them. However, after about a year he moved out of state and remarried. I always pushed for them to see eachother and they mananged to visit about twice a year. That is how it remains today. He only contacts them when I initiate contact and tell him the kids miss him. They last saw him October 2012. I still reinforce the message that it has nothing to do with the girls. I don't cover for him but I don't say bad things about him to the girls either. I'm letting them decide for themselves. My oldest, age 22, recongnizes her father as a fun party guy that has absolutely zero ounce of responsibility. My youngest, age 12, thinks he simply loves his new son more than her. It's sad, but as long as you don't mudsling you keep the higher ground. Again, you cannot control his decisions. You can only reinforce the message that you love your kids and it's not their fault. 

Now I'm going through it with their step father. Both men unfaithful. But I'm dealing with relationship issues between him and my daughters now too. I'm taking the high road and so far he has stayed very active in their lives. I do hope he does not disengage but again, I cannot control his decisions. I can only support a relationship with the kids and reinforce positive messages.

Best of luck and time will tell. Stay on the high road regardless of his actions.


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## asia (Dec 3, 2012)

I have been following this thread and sorry you guys are here. My husband is a serial cheater and sexually addicted I think. He watches porn online, all kinds of sexual mental stuff, and left me for his OW that I think he was doing all sorts of stuff with. He left her and came back home and we are recovering.

Has either of your husbands fell in love with these flings they've had or was it all purely sexual? I can't even think to have sex with him most days, still very hurt over everything. It's as if my entire marriage has been one big false recovery after the next. I found out he cheated, then he had an emotional affair, then he cheated again and this time moved out for a few months (with family). I can't think of one year in our marriage he has not slept with another woman.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Asia,
Luckily there has been no emotional involvement from my husband's standpoint and the facts seem to bear this out. He meets them online, chases them, they meet a few times for sex and seem to never have contact again. I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse :scratchhead:


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## GottaKnow (Jan 19, 2013)

asia said:


> I have been following this thread and sorry you guys are here. My husband is a serial cheater and sexually addicted I think. He watches porn online, all kinds of sexual mental stuff, and left me for his OW that I think he was doing all sorts of stuff with. He left her and came back home and we are recovering.
> 
> Has either of your husbands fell in love with these flings they've had or was it all purely sexual? I can't even think to have sex with him most days, still very hurt over everything. It's as if my entire marriage has been one big false recovery after the next. I found out he cheated, then he had an emotional affair, then he cheated again and this time moved out for a few months (with family). I can't think of one year in our marriage he has not slept with another woman.


Asia,

As far as I know my H has not emotionally connected with anyone. It's just physical. As punkin said, I'm not sure if it's better or worse. I say this because when it's just physical they compartmentalize it and justify it as ok because no emotional lines are crossed. This can lead to serial cheating for the duration of the marriage. Crossing an emotional line might make him uncompartmentalize it and face the reality that infidelity hurts regardless of whether or not emotions are involved. 

Best of luck to you.


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## punkinhead (Mar 19, 2013)

Just an update... a lot has happened over the past week. I took my kids on vacation and spent Easter with them and guess what??? We had a great time. We didn't miss him. That came as a shock and I felt kind of guilty at first, but then I started to realize what a drain this marriage has been on my energy for so long. I put so much effort into making him happy and comfortable that I didn't even enjoy myself anymore. 

I was talking about this to my IC today and he said it sounds like I'm moving further away from any desire to reconcile and I think he's right. That doesn't mean I don't still hurt nor does it mean I don't still love him. I just feel like I can make it on my own and even (gasp of surprise) be happier!

This is a good day. I hope the feeling lasts.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

punkinhead said:


> Just an update... a lot has happened over the past week. I took my kids on vacation and spent Easter with them and guess what??? We had a great time. We didn't miss him. That came as a shock and I felt kind of guilty at first, but then I started to realize what a drain this marriage has been on my energy for so long. I put so much effort into making him happy and comfortable that I didn't even enjoy myself anymore.
> 
> I was talking about this to my IC today and he said it sounds like I'm moving further away from any desire to reconcile and I think he's right. That doesn't mean I don't still hurt nor does it mean I don't still love him. I just feel like I can make it on my own and even (gasp of surprise) be happier!
> 
> This is a good day. I hope the feeling lasts.


I mean, can we put into a situation that also puts back into us? It just seems so common at lease on these message boards.


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