# Just venting...looking for emotional support



## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

I have been married for 22 years. For several years my husband has engaged in online meeting sites and porn websites. When I confront him, he says I would be better off without him. After realizing that the women are not real or just scamming money, he decides to "act right" and be a better husband but eventually falls back into old habits. In the last week he set up a new account on a new website claiming that I was too career driven and he was sick of taking a backseat to the kids, my job, and my family. I have taken a backseat to his inappropriate behavior for several years but I'll accept some responsibility for the demise of this relationship. He has spent over a $1000.00 in the last 4 days on "credits" to see pics and tell his sad story to Ukrainian women (oh and that he loves them). As much as it hurts, I have to call it quits and I don't even know where to start. He spends money irresponsibly (obviously) and our financial well being suffers as a result. I cannot get ahead enough to make home repairs that are desperately needed. I have fought the good fight for 10 years but he is dragging me down. I'm just feeling undervalued, worthless, and a failure. I know it's a temporary feeling and I won't feel this way forever. 
Thanks for listening...


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## JultedMuppet (Jun 29, 2019)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I have been married for 22 years. For several years my husband has engaged in online meeting sites and porn websites. When I confront him, he says I would be better off without him. After realizing that the women are not real or just scamming money, he decides to "act right" and be a better husband but eventually falls back into old habits. In the last week he set up a new account on a new website claiming that I was too career driven and he was sick of taking a backseat to the kids, my job, and my family. I have taken a backseat to his inappropriate behavior for several years but I'll accept some responsibility for the demise of this relationship. He has spent over a $1000.00 in the last 4 days on "credits" to see pics and tell his sad story to Ukrainian women (oh and that he loves them). As much as it hurts, I have to call it quits and I don't even know where to start. He spends money irresponsibly (obviously) and our financial well being suffers as a result. I cannot get ahead enough to make home repairs that are desperately needed. I have fought the good fight for 10 years but he is dragging me down. I'm just feeling undervalued, worthless, and a failure. I know it's a temporary feeling and I won't feel this way forever.
> Thanks for listening...


Hey AO,

Welcome. I'm really sorry to hear your situation. I'm pretty new here and there will be people with much better advice than mine, but in my experience over only a few days here, I can tell you that the help you get here will change your whole perspective. You will see your situation with new eyes and discover options you didn't know you had, because of people here who are willing to put effort into helping you.

You will get really good help here. Good luck.

- Scooter.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

JultedMuppet said:


> Hey AO,
> 
> Welcome. I'm really sorry to hear your situation. I'm pretty new here and there will be people with much better advice than mine, but in my experience over only a few days here, I can tell you that the help you get here will change your whole perspective. You will see your situation with new eyes and discover options you didn't know you had, because of people here who are willing to put effort into helping you.
> 
> ...


JultedMuppet .... maybe you can relate to her about finally believing your gut about something ..... even though you want badly to deny the truth in the beginning.

You just went through becoming more "aware of reality." You say your new here .... but you have experience, the best teacher of all.


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## JultedMuppet (Jun 29, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> JultedMuppet .... maybe you can relate to her about finally believing your gut about something ..... even though you want badly to deny the truth in the beginning.
> 
> You just went through becoming more "aware of reality." You say your new here .... but you have experience, the best teacher of all.


So true. Ha, "aware of reality". Yes I am.

Hey AO,

I was a wreck when I came here. I knew a whole bunch of stuff about my partner that meant we were headed straight for divorce, but I couldn't let myself believe that could happen. If I tried to picture it, there was just this wall saying "Wrong way. Go back". 

Two things happened almost immediately: first, people re-told my story in simple terms and made me see there was only one logical way forward. Then they helped me see that wasn't the end of the world. Once those things happened I could stop being frozen in place and make a plan. Some of the advice was brutally honest and that was OK, it needed to be.

So your situation: what is stopping you from just leaving? Is it purely financial? Do you have friends or family that you can lean on, perhaps for short-term accommodation?

If you feel you can continue as thing are for a little longer, get some cash put aside for the break. That may be really hard if he is spending it hand over fist.

But you're right about needing to get out. If he's willing to spend $1000 on other "relationships" but not on, say, marriage counselling or improving himself, he deserves to be someone you used to know, not the person you're stuck with sharing a house with.

I really hope you can get out soon. 

And... YOU are not undervalued, or worthless, or a failure. HE is not valuing and respecting you like you deserve, HE isn't treating you as if you have worth, and HE is making his shortcomings make you feel like you've failed. You haven't.

I'll tell you the best piece of advice anyone has given me here:

You are strong.

- Scooter.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

I concur with all of your points. 
Let him keep looking for his mail-order bride and make your life starting spiraling upwards instead of downwards. 

I'm betting he's going to miss your level-headedness more than you miss him.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> JultedMuppet said:
> 
> 
> > Hey AO,
> ...





JultedMuppet said:


> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> > JultedMuppet .... maybe you can relate to her about finally believing your gut about something ..... even though you want badly to deny the truth in the beginning.
> ...


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

VibrantWings said:


> I concur with all of your points.
> Let him keep looking for his mail-order bride and make your life starting spiraling upwards instead of downwards.
> 
> I'm betting he's going to miss your level-headedness more than you miss him.






I spent at least the last ten years trying to get him to see the light and realize that his actions have consequences for us financially and emotionally. I don't really believe in divorce and I thought I would spend the rest of my life with this man. I would never do this kind of thing to him and he knows how loyal I have been. I would never leave because I value our vows and our life but this cycle just keeps happening and he never truly changes. He feels the need to blame others and places ultimatums like never see or speak to your family and things will get better. I know this time is different, I feel it in my gut. I know I have to let go and give him freedom from me. I need to live my life free from distrust and anxiety as I am waiting for the next time it happens...
Thanks for telling me what I already know but need to hear again and again. I don't wish him I'll but I do kind of hope he will regret his decisions one day. I would have stayed forever...


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## JultedMuppet (Jun 29, 2019)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I don't really believe in divorce and I thought I would spend the rest of my life with this man.


You might not believe in divorce, but do you know what he doesn't believe in?

Marriage.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Thanks for those words. I need them. To answer your very valid questions...

what is stopping you from just leaving? 
- he has us in debt by tens of thousands of dollars which he makes no effort to re-pay) Hes far too busy wanting more stuff (motorcycles, repilea, fish tanks, you name it...). We tried bankruptcy but that fell on me to pay because we were not eligible for Chapter 7 and he had it dismissed so he would not lose his semi that he was leasing but no longer has because he walked away from that job another 9-12 months later. 
- if I leave the house, I have to leave the dogs (4) as well and would not get cared for properly. He would not pay the mortgage or taxes and I would be eventually liable. I may as well get him to leave and keep the house. 

Is it purely financial? 
- mostly yes

Do you have friends or family that you can lean on, perhaps for short-term accommodation?
- no we live 8 hours away from any family and honestly I'm to prideful and hurt to talk to anyone about this right now. 


UOTE=JultedMuppet;19914357]


Mr.Married said:


> JultedMuppet .... maybe you can relate to her about finally believing your gut about something ..... even though you want badly to deny the truth in the beginning.
> 
> You just went through becoming more "aware of reality." You say your new here .... but you have experience, the best teacher of all.


So true. Ha, "aware of reality". Yes I am.

Hey AO,

I was a wreck when I came here. I knew a whole bunch of stuff about my partner that meant we were headed straight for divorce, but I couldn't let myself believe that could happen. If I tried to picture it, there was just this wall saying "Wrong way. Go back". 

Two things happened almost immediately: first, people re-told my story in simple terms and made me see there was only one logical way forward. Then they helped me see that wasn't the end of the world. Once those things happened I could stop being frozen in place and make a plan. Some of the advice was brutally honest and that was OK, it needed to be.

So your situation: what is stopping you from just leaving? Is it purely financial? Do you have friends or family that you can lean on, perhaps for short-term accommodation?

If you feel you can continue as thing are for a little longer, get some cash put aside for the break. That may be really hard if he is spending it hand over fist.

But you're right about needing to get out. If he's willing to spend $1000 on other "relationships" but not on, say, marriage counselling or improving himself, he deserves to be someone you used to know, not the person you're stuck with sharing a house with.

I really hope you can get out soon. 

And... YOU are not undervalued, or worthless, or a failure. HE is not valuing and respecting you like you deserve, HE isn't treating you as if you have worth, and HE is making his shortcomings make you feel like you've failed. You haven't.

I'll tell you the best piece of advice anyone has given me here:

You are strong.

- Scooter.[/QUOTE]


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I spent at least the last ten years trying to get him to see the light and realize that his actions have consequences for us financially and emotionally. I don't really believe in divorce and I thought I would spend the rest of my life with this man. I would never do this kind of thing to him and he knows how loyal I have been. I would never leave because I value our vows and our life but this cycle just keeps happening and he never truly changes. He feels the need to blame others and places ultimatums like never see or speak to your family and things will get better. I know this time is different, I feel it in my gut. I know I have to let go and give him freedom from me. I need to live my life free from distrust and anxiety as I am waiting for the next time it happens...
> Thanks for telling me what I already know but need to hear again and again. I don't wish him I'll but I do kind of hope he will regret his decisions one day. I would have stayed forever...


I know your pain.... Forever was too long for my marriage, too, no matter how hard I tried.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

So true and I just keep finding myself hanging on by a thread because I think I have a fear of change and fear of the unknown. As I am sitting here now, I have to keep telling myself that I need to move forward with this separation. He wants to be cordial and friendly to discuss details of the separation but I really don't feel like being nice and making things easy for him. I haven't spoken to him in 2 days and I honestly feel like I can make the changes that I need to if he allows me to shut him out for a bit. I don't even know if that makes sense but I just can't be besties during this process to make him feel better.


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## JultedMuppet (Jun 29, 2019)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> honestly I'm to prideful and hurt to talk to anyone about this right now.


I hear you. That is how I ended up here and glad I did.

You really have some challenges don't you?

Do you have an income? If so, is it going into an account that you have sole control of? If it isn't, it needs to.

Four dogs too. That is tough, my dogs came pretty much equal with my daughter in priority in my decision-making recently.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I spent at least the last ten years trying to get him to see the light and realize that his actions have consequences for us financially and emotionally. I don't really believe in divorce and I thought I would spend the rest of my life with this man. I would never do this kind of thing to him and he knows how loyal I have been. I would never leave because I value our vows and our life but this cycle just keeps happening and he never truly changes. He feels the need to blame others and places ultimatums like never see or speak to your family and things will get better. I know this time is different, I feel it in my gut. I know I have to let go and give him freedom from me. I need to live my life free from distrust and anxiety as I am waiting for the next time it happens...
> Thanks for telling me what I already know but need to hear again and again. I don't wish him I'll but I do kind of hope he will regret his decisions one day. I would have stayed forever...


You value your vows but he does not, as he is constantly breaking them -- and right in front of you! AND spending money on these things. AND it's not the first time. You should not feel any guilt at all for filing for divorce just because you don't believe in divorce. You acknowledge some blame for things but you have also been willing to try. He is just throwing nonsense out there to try to excuse his horrible behavior. But he is right about one thing. You WILL be better off without him.

I'm really sorry you are going through this but now that you know it is untenable for you in the long run, what do you need to do to end this charade? Start thinking and planning and I think you'll start to feel more optimistic about your future and lighthearted than you probably have in a long time.

And the next time he says you're too ambitious/career driven, tell him "Good luck finding a woman who isn't who can afford your pitiful porn habit."


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

I work full time and make a modest income; My calculations reveal that I can run this home on my own income, it will be tight and I will have to give up some of the conveniences that I have grown accustomed to. I have a decent amount of money saved and a couple of accounts that he does not have access to because of his past spending habits. He has never taken my money but if knows I have it, he will relentlessly beg for things that cost a significant amount of money until I give in just to shut him up. We only have one joint account which I will be closing this week. The challenges I face, I will overcome but the fear they produce have caused me to stay in the past. I must keep moving past my fears....


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Thanks for your response. I feel as though this pain would have been less if I had let him go more than 10 years ago; I'd already have moved on and been past this. I should have taken a zero tolerance approach. This has only gotten to be more difficult as time went on.

Here is an example of what he says on these sites: 

"Elena loved your letter very straightforward and to the point like u I believe in God and family values u r very beautiful and sexy so let me be straitforward with u I cannot commit to a relationship right now for I am still married have been with current wife for 22 years marriage is not gonna last much longer due to the fact she is career driven and has put her job her family my kids before me and have just grown sick of taking a back seat to everyone and everything we have just grown apart sadly if u r still interested in me u can email me at (email address removed) if I don't here from u I will understand for if u r true to your word any man would be lucky to have u with all my love"

Disgusting. Every time, I doubt myself about this decision, I read some of his posts on the websites. I clicked on an email and was able to go right into his profile and see what he is doing...probably just torturing myself...


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I work full time and make a modest income; My calculations reveal that I can run this home on my own income, it will be tight and I will have to give up some of the conveniences that I have grown accustomed to. I have a decent amount of money saved and a couple of accounts that he does not have access to because of his past spending habits. He has never taken my money but if knows I have it, he will relentlessly beg for things that cost a significant amount of money until I give in just to shut him up. We only have one joint account which I will be closing this week. The challenges I face, I will overcome but the fear they produce have caused me to stay in the past. I must keep moving past my fears....


Speak to a lawyer about the finances and at least a legal separation. It's easier to divorce in debt than having assets. A good lawyer can show his driving you to debt was on things like Ukraine women and whatnot, those kinds of debt are not considered in the "marital interest" and most judges will stick him with all the debt but it can vary from state to state. 

He thinks you'll never leave or divorce so he has no reason to change. Your just going to work harder to solve his problems. He may change temporarily to get you back but it rarely lasts and the bad habits return.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

He left the marriage long ago. You must stop enabling his excesses. This is not the man you loved, nor will he return. Today is Independence Day in USA. Talk to a lawyer. Find the courage to stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Thanks so much for the advice!!! I am so overwhelmed with all the debt I am facing with or without separating, I was not aware that there may be help for me. I have saved many e-mails and other proof over the years. Will this be helpful?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I work full time and make a modest income; My calculations reveal that I can run this home on my own income, it will be tight and I will have to give up some of the conveniences that I have grown accustomed to. I have a decent amount of money saved and a couple of accounts that he does not have access to because of his past spending habits. He has never taken my money but if knows I have it, he will relentlessly beg for things that cost a significant amount of money until I give in just to shut him up. We only have one joint account which I will be closing this week. The challenges I face, I will overcome but the fear they produce have caused me to stay in the past. I must keep moving past my fears....


But on the positive side you do get rid of your inconvenience. Your "husband."


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Could his behavior be addictive? Does he *want* to stop this and can't, or does he want to continue? 



AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I have been married for 22 years. For several years my husband has engaged in online meeting sites and porn websites. When I confront him, he says I would be better off without him. After realizing that the women are not real or just scamming money, he decides to "act right" and be a better husband but eventually falls back into old habits. In the last week he set up a new account on a new website claiming that I was too career driven and he was sick of taking a backseat to the kids, my job, and my family. I have taken a backseat to his inappropriate behavior for several years but I'll accept some responsibility for the demise of this relationship. He has spent over a $1000.00 in the last 4 days on "credits" to see pics and tell his sad story to Ukrainian women (oh and that he loves them). As much as it hurts, I have to call it quits and I don't even know where to start. He spends money irresponsibly (obviously) and our financial well being suffers as a result. I cannot get ahead enough to make home repairs that are desperately needed. I have fought the good fight for 10 years but he is dragging me down. I'm just feeling undervalued, worthless, and a failure. I know it's a temporary feeling and I won't feel this way forever.
> Thanks for listening...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Thanks for your response. I feel as though this pain would have been less if I had let him go more than 10 years ago; I'd already have moved on and been past this. I should have taken a zero tolerance approach. This has only gotten to be more difficult as time went on.
> 
> Here is an example of what he says on these sites:
> 
> ...


You STBX (soon to be ex, if you haven't yet picked up on the vocab here) may quite possibly, I'd say likely, be mentally ill. He doesn't need counseling, he needs a psychiatrist who can evaluate him and if possible, put him on a path towards getting better. Right now, on his own, he's going to end up on the streets in not-that-long-a-time. Everything he has of value will end up repossessed. His delusions and addictions to not just porn but an idealized alternate reality are as dangerous as the alcoholic in a downward spiral. 

Just warning you of two things. One, if you stay, nothing will get better, for him, or you. Two, if you leave, you'll be watching this and you should be figuring out how how you'll react to seeing it happen before your eyes. 

Were there any warning signs before you married? Most people don't suddenly snap and become the person you describe. Is there a history of mental illness in his family? 

And you mentioned a family of your own. How many kids, how old? What's their relationship like with their father? Do they understand his irresponsibility with finances? Or his unhappiness with you?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Fear of the unknown keeps many in bad marriages. You are strong enough to build a new life without him. If you haven't, make a list of your assets and what's owed, etc. it's always better to see in black-and-white what you're facing so you can plan.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

The longer you stay, the higher the debt will become. Get a good lawyer. Keep track of every time he spends money on porn/online women. That will help you to not be as responsible for HIS debt. 

My STBX was horrible managing the finances but very good at hiding just how bad he was at it. As a result, I'm leaving my marriage with a LOT of debt. I'm taking on half of it and that's fair I think. I should have paid better attention and he wasn't spending it on what your STBX was spending money on so half of it is mine. Live and learn. But you don't have to take on all the debt. And if you have records of what he spent all that money on you may even end up having to pay less. 

No matter what, you need to get out and now. It's a nice goal to not believe in divorce, but sometimes it is very necessary whether we like the idea or not. You need to do this for you!!! 

I love how he says he's very into family values as he's wasting family money and cheating on his wife emotionally. Asshat.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> The longer you stay, the higher the debt will become. Get a good lawyer. Keep track of every time he spends money on porn/online women. That will help you to not be as responsible for HIS debt.
> 
> My STBX was horrible managing the finances but very good at hiding just how bad he was at it. As a result, I'm leaving my marriage with a LOT of debt. I'm taking on half of it and that's fair I think. I should have paid better attention and he wasn't spending it on what your STBX was spending money on so half of it is mine. Live and learn. But you don't have to take on all the debt. And if you have records of what he spent all that money on you may even end up having to pay less.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your insight. I am a christian and I try to live my life accordingly which means that I make every attempt to follow God's will for me. I know it seems silly but maybe God is directing me away from this man (???). The struggles just keep coming and I am very unhappy. Because I believe that God is against divorce, I tried very hard to get him to see his sin and reform so that he could be a better husband and he did for a time or two but like anything else, it didn't last. I have several years of fragmented documentation as proof that I will have available when I speak to an attorney. I was silly to think that I could change him and try to get him to seek professional help. He often accepts responsibility verbally but then also blames me for not giving him enough attention. I don't know how to give him more attention when he is over the road (truck driver) and I am trying to run a household, career, and a graduate education. I want to be fair and accept responsibility as well but I became bitter by his hypocritical attitude. I tried to be supportive but it clearly is not working. He is always saying to these women how he is honest and has family values which is ridiculous and hurtful to read knowing what I deal with. I know that the anger will surface soon but right now I am mourning this loss. I think that he is on a road of self-destruction but I cannot try to save him any longer. I am drowning here, so it's time to save myself it just hurts because I would have been loyal to him until death. :crying:


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Thanks so much for your insight. I am a christian and I try to live my life accordingly which means that I make every attempt to follow God's will for me.


There is an old saying that can be very helpful in times like these: God helps those who help themselves. I can't believe in a God who would want you to spend your life being emotionally beat up in this way. 

I'm sorry that your husband doesn't want your loyalty. I feel the same way, I would have stayed with mine forever. I am very loyal, to my own detriment and it sounds like you are too. But eventually, you have to put yourself first or you will drown. Remember: God helps those who help themselves. Say it over and over if you must but please, help yourself. It's time.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> You STBX (soon to be ex, if you haven't yet picked up on the vocab here) may quite possibly, I'd say likely, be mentally ill. He doesn't need counseling, he needs a psychiatrist who can evaluate him and if possible, put him on a path towards getting better. Right now, on his own, he's going to end up on the streets in not-that-long-a-time. Everything he has of value will end up repossessed. His delusions and addictions to not just porn but an idealized alternate reality are as dangerous as the alcoholic in a downward spiral.
> 
> Just warning you of two things. One, if you stay, nothing will get better, for him, or you. Two, if you leave, you'll be watching this and you should be figuring out how how you'll react to seeing it happen before your eyes.
> 
> ...


Excellent point. So here is a piece of the story that I have not shared: 
I did not see any signs before marriage but I was also 20 years and was just trying to get past a rather difficult childhood. He seemed to be my knight in shining armor. Problems started for me emotionally when he went over the road as a truck driver and stayed out for 6-8 weeks at a time. I was lonely and sad with a one year old. He never called me and at that time, cell phones were not a thing. I had a rely on him to call me or I had to contact the dispatcher and ask her to send him a message to call home. When he called, he would often tell me there was nothing he could do to help me because he was in another state and couldn't run home at the drop of a hat. I only wanted him to listen, I didn't need him to do anything but his message delivery was rude and condescending so I stopped reaching out and we often went several weeks without speaking. I felt like a single mother with two incomes. 

His mother had Bipolar and died of suicide before I met him. He was apparently medicated with Ritalin for ADHD as a child (he is now 47 years old). He also spent 2 years in Iraq and I had later found e-mails to women during that time and that was hurtful because he rarely contacted me during his tour and I was so worried about him. In think this was the first time that this which would have been about 4-5 years in the marriage. When technology improved, his habits became worse. As time has gone one, he is showing signs of Bipolar and PTSD but he refuses to be evaluated and treated. 

I have 2 children; both grown. My son is 22 and my daughter (19) who is intellectually disabled lives with me. When a decision had to be made to become her representative payee, my husband was honest and said that he is not the right person to handle her finances and that I should do it. He even acknowledged that he would spend it irresponsibility. Of course, I didn't fight him on that but praised him for his honesty. I thought he was making some progress. My daughter has no idea about his lifestyle and she seems to get along with him. My son and my husband do not get along, it is a very tense and sometimes volatile relationship. My son moved to another state last year and I miss him terribly. He was very helpful when his father was away. My husband tends to speak to people (including myself) in a loud, disrespectful tone and my son does not respond well to that. He has never learned to deliver a message with a graceful and well communicated approach. I think my son has a pretty good idea about his financial irresponsibility. 

I wish I could get him to see that he needs to seek treatment but if he refuses to get well, I guess I can't afford to stay. I think at this point he is tired of having me monitor him, nag him, and just overall, he's tired of me.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> There is an old saying that can be very helpful in times like these: God helps those who help themselves. I can't believe in a God who would want you to spend your life being emotionally beat up in this way.
> 
> I'm sorry that your husband doesn't want your loyalty. I feel the same way, I would have stayed with mine forever. I am very loyal, to my own detriment and it sounds like you are too. But eventually, you have to put yourself first or you will drown. Remember: God helps those who help themselves. Say it over and over if you must but please, help yourself. It's time.




Thanks so much! I needed those words. I feel so guilty calling this marriage quits when God places it in such high regard. 
He has often accused me of being "too loyal" when it came to employers. He would switch jobs every 6 months to 3 years and I have 10 years with one employer. I would respond that sometimes, loyalty isn't a bad characteristic and more people could benefit from practicing it.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

uhtred said:


> Could his behavior be addictive? Does he *want* to stop this and can't, or does he want to continue?



Yes. I believe this is a combination of addiction and mental illness. He's often said that he "gets bored" and looks for women on line that are far away. He cleared his bank account a couple of years ago to send hundreds of dollars to a woman overseas somewhere. In his mind, he hasn't had a physical relationship so he has not cheated and he will say he has never cheated. Although, recently he has made comments that he was being accused of cheating so he he figured he might as well. So, I think that he was trying to tell me that he he has not been as faithful as he once said he was. This is the first time, I am letting this all out. I have no one that I am comfortable confiding in so I have kept this bottled up for so many years. I'm sorry if I am just pouring it out here. 

I should say that he is overall not a terrible person and I will miss him dearly. I want him to acknowledge he is sick and needs help, I only want what will make him happy in life. I haven't spoken to him in 3 days now and I just want to call or text him but I know I need to keep my distance so I don' t lose my nerve to move forward.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Whether or not he believes he's cheated, he's definitely put other women above you and probably has from the beginning. 

That obviously isn't what marriage is meant to be so let him go. But don't be surprised if he doesn't want you to let him go and promises the moon if you won't divorce him (and makes it very difficult when you try to move on).


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You can't help an addict. I think your leaving is the best thing at this point. 




AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Yes. I believe this is a combination of addiction and mental illness. He's often said that he "gets bored" and looks for women on line that are far away. He cleared his bank account a couple of years ago to send hundreds of dollars to a woman overseas somewhere. In his mind, he hasn't had a physical relationship so he has not cheated and he will say he has never cheated. Although, recently he has made comments that he was being accused of cheating so he he figured he might as well. So, I think that he was trying to tell me that he he has not been as faithful as he once said he was. This is the first time, I am letting this all out. I have no one that I am comfortable confiding in so I have kept this bottled up for so many years. I'm sorry if I am just pouring it out here.
> 
> I should say that he is overall not a terrible person and I will miss him dearly. I want him to acknowledge he is sick and needs help, I only want what will make him happy in life. I haven't spoken to him in 3 days now and I just want to call or text him but I know I need to keep my distance so I don' t lose my nerve to move forward.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

BLECH! What a pathetic loser he is. LOLOL it's so ridiculous it's actually funny in a sick way. 

ANYHOW -- YES it would have been so much easier if you'd cut this off 10 years ago. But you are here now, don't waste another year.







AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Thanks for your response. I feel as though this pain would have been less if I had let him go more than 10 years ago; I'd already have moved on and been past this. I should have taken a zero tolerance approach. This has only gotten to be more difficult as time went on.
> 
> Here is an example of what he says on these sites:
> 
> ...


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Openminded said:


> Whether or not he believes he's cheated, he's definitely put other women above you and probably has from the beginning.
> 
> That obviously isn't what marriage is meant to be so let him go. But don't be surprised if he doesn't want you to let him go and promises the moon if you won't divorce him (and makes it very difficult when you try to move on).



I actually spoke with him today and he said that he waited all day to hear from me yesterday. He made up his mind that when he didn't receive a message from me by this morning that he would leave the relationship behind. Of course this means that I am left with the house, the dogs, the debt... which is very overwhelming. 

In some twisted way, I want him to come home and talk to me rather than decide that because things didn't go his way and that I didn't reach out to him as I have done in the past that he is done. He won't let me call him to speak to him and he says that he was ignored by me so again I am at fault and this was his "sign" to call it quits. He has said his goodbye via text message. After 22 years, I don't even deserve a face to face conversation about anything, much less discussing a plan about how we will deal with finances, etc. 

Why do I feel so lost and hurt? Why can't I accept that this is probably for the best and let him go? I feel so desperate to have him change his mind. What is wrong with me? 

I'm in crisis mode right now and a mess. :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

WorkingWife said:


> BLECH! What a pathetic loser he is. LOLOL it's so ridiculous it's actually funny in a sick way.
> 
> ANYHOW -- YES it would have been so much easier if you'd cut this off 10 years ago. But you are here now, don't waste another year.



It's unreal how much this hurts to have to let him go even when deep down I know it is most likely for the best. :crying::crying:


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm so sorry for your pain. You will get through this. Push through that pain and you'll be happier in the end. And if he thinks that he can walk away and leave you with all his debt he's crazy. Call a lawyer ASAP!!! Please.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> I'm so sorry for your pain. You will get through this. Push through that pain and you'll be happier in the end. And if he thinks that he can walk away and leave you with all his debt he's crazy. Call a lawyer ASAP!!! Please.



Thank you! This too shall pass and I'm hoping things will be vastly different in a year from now but at this moment it is difficult to see the future.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If he's capable of handling it that way then he likely never cared except on his very limited, unrealistic terms and that isn't a marriage. He apparently thinks he can just walk away from it all with nothing landing on him but he's in for a surprise. 

He's shown you who he is. Let this make you angry enough to power through it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The shock of a sudden ending, by text, caught you off guard. You expected him to act like the grown-up he's supposed to be but apparently that's not possible. 

When you recover from this, and you will, you'll wonder why you held on for so long to someone who never was worth it.


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## JultedMuppet (Jun 29, 2019)

This might seem a weird thing to say, but congratulations. Terrible as you feel right now, when you look back on all this I think you will see today as a "turning point" when you started to move in the (inevitable) direction towards a better life.

Now that he's gone, lean on anyone you can to get through the coming days and weeks and do not for a second consider taking him back if he tries for that. You deserve way beter than the hand you've been dealt up to now.

From today onwards it can only get better.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Openminded said:


> The shock of a sudden ending, by text, caught you off guard. You expected him to act like the grown-up he's supposed to be but apparently that's not possible.
> 
> When you recover from this, and you will, you'll wonder why you held on for so long to someone who never was worth it.



Why am I not worth a proper adult conversation after 22 years? He said I had an opportunity to discuss the issue and I ignored him. I waited for him to step up and acknowledge his behavior. When he didn't do that, I refrained from starting the conversation which is what he said he was waiting for and when I did not, he took it as a sign to leave. Why do I have to do all the begging and communicating in this relationship? When did I take responsibility for everything? Why he can't even just apologize for what he did? Why didn't I just do what I normally do and start the conversation? Maybe this time, I could have gotten him to understand that he needs professional help...

So many questions....


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> It's unreal how much this hurts to have to let him go even when deep down I know it is most likely for the best. :crying::crying:


I understand, it must hurt terribly. But the truth is probably closer to he is saying "you're better off without me" as a way of assuaging his guilt and unwillingness to become a better person than that he really doesn't care if he loses you. He probably thinks you will just keep putting up with it and he can do as he pleases. 

If he won't fight to keep you, it's because he is a selfish, self centered person and he wouldn't fight to keep any woman. Not because his love for you is less than it would be for another woman who was somehow "better." It will take time but once you get yourself out of the situation and get some distance you will begin to feel relief to be away from such a no win situation. Be good to yourself.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

JultedMuppet said:


> This might seem a weird thing to say, but congratulations. Terrible as you feel right now, when you look back on all this I think you will see today as a "turning point" when you started to move in the (inevitable) direction towards a better life.
> 
> Now that he's gone, lean on anyone you can to get through the coming days and weeks and do not for a second consider taking him back if he tries for that. You deserve way beter than the hand you've been dealt up to now.
> 
> From today onwards it can only get better.



I can only pray it gets better from here. It's so hard to imagine. I am in some serious heartbreak right now, something I tried to avoid for so long. I'm so upset that I could not change this outcome and wasted so many years on someone who can go to my favorite beach and text me that he is there to say goodbye to his past (me and 22 years of marriage). I begged him to see that he needs help and that things could have a better outlook for us both but he insisted its time. 

I hope that in 3 months, 6 months, 1 year that I can come back here and read these posts and have a more optimistic view of my circumstances. 

So appreciative of the support I am getting. I hope that I can help someone else in pain one day and lift them up as you have all done for me.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

WorkingWife said:


> I understand, it must hurt terribly. But the truth is probably closer to he is saying "you're better off without me" as a way of assuaging his guilt and unwillingness to become a better person than that he really doesn't care if he loses you. He probably thinks you will just keep putting up with it and he can do as he pleases.
> 
> If he won't fight to keep you, it's because he is a selfish, self centered person and he wouldn't fight to keep any woman. Not because his love for you is less than it would be for another woman who was somehow "better." It will take time but once you get yourself out of the situation and get some distance you will begin to feel relief to be away from such a no win situation. Be good to yourself.




Thanks you for your words of encouragement. I wish I had been enough or at least gotten a better outcome.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Why? Because you care more about him than he cares about you. Unfortunately, you will never get the answers you are after because it doesn't benefit him to tell you. He wouldn't want to acknowledge fault in this even if he felt it was there and he probably doesn't. You could have never helped him because he doesn't want help. 

Right now it's very new and it's very hurtful. But, in time, you'll see this for the blessing that it is.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You were enough. He wasn't.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Why am I not worth a proper adult conversation after 22 years? He said I had an opportunity to discuss the issue and I ignored him. I waited for him to step up and acknowledge his behavior. When he didn't do that, I refrained from starting the conversation which is what he said he was waiting for and when I did not, he took it as a sign to leave. Why do I have to do all the begging and communicating in this relationship? When did I take responsibility for everything? Why he can't even just apologize for what he did? Why didn't I just do what I normally do and start the conversation?  Maybe this time, I could have gotten him to understand that he needs professional help...
> 
> 
> So many questions....


He's saying "it's all your fault I won't talk to you" because he's not actually man enough to have the conversation face to face. He's not an adult. Reading back on that stupid message he was desperately sending to women online.....I thought he sounded 15 years old. You DO everything because he won't, period. NOTHING gets done correctly without you.
He's a big **** up and I bet he knows it. He probably knows you are the strong, reliable one (as he openly admitted when it came to your disabled daughter). His tiny little boy ego can't handle it and thinks you adopted him instead of marrying him (can you tell I know the type?). He seeks others for an ego boost because you intimidate him. (not intentionally- this is all something that lives in his own head and is not your responsibilty/doing)

Have you tried to stop asking him for adult discussion and told your unruly "teenage son" what's going on and how it's all going down? Since he is inevitably going to blame you for everything, I think you need to drop the guilt and take matters into your own capable hands. You have given him many opportunities to grow up and start acting his age. It's okay to do what you need to do and stop "babying" this guy.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Why do I feel so lost and hurt? Why can't I accept that this is probably for the best and let him go? I feel so desperate to have him change his mind. What is wrong with me?
> 
> I'm in crisis mode right now and a mess. :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:


What you have lost is you on-paper-only "husband"/partner of 22 years. This guy was never life-long material. His time on the road as a truck driver allowed (required even!) him to create substitute support networks, some virtual, but perhaps others that are very real. His mind is not reliable or predictable. He has been a danger to your financial future for ages, and at some point he might have become physically dangerous to you. Add to that bipolar and depressed people can create depression for those around them. 

He does not have a good life ahead of him. There is virtually zero chance you would have, had you stayed with him. You need to start building your own future. I'm guessing you've got a head start because it's likely you have a separate set of friends from him, which means you'll also be spared the mess of figuring out which side which friend is on (yours or his). I have no personal experience with this, but I doubt, in a situation like this, there will be many friends who could comfortable keep in touch with both parties.

Praying for strength for you. It's got to be really tough. You'll have moments of relieve and moments of absolute certainty you screwed everything up yourself. You cannot let anything he says get to you.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

VibrantWings said:


> He's saying "it's all your fault I won't talk to you" because he's not actually man enough to have the conversation face to face. He's not an adult. Reading back on that stupid message he was desperately sending to women online.....I thought he sounded 15 years old. You DO everything because he won't, period. NOTHING gets done correctly without you.
> He's a big **** up and I bet he knows it. He probably knows you are the strong, reliable one (as he openly admitted when it came to your disabled daughter). His tiny little boy ego can't handle it and thinks you adopted him instead of marrying him (can you tell I know the type?). He seeks others for an ego boost because you intimidate him. (not intentionally- this is all something that lives in his own head and is not your responsibilty/doing)
> 
> Have you tried to stop asking him for adult discussion and told your unruly "teenage son" what's going on and how it's all going down? Since he is inevitably going to blame you for everything, I think you need to drop the guilt and take matters into your own capable hands. You have given him many opportunities to grow up and start acting his age. It's okay to do what you need to do and stop "babying" this guy.




WOW! Great post! I can certainly tell you know the type and I feel a bit validated. Maybe this is why he keeps telling me "we want different things" or "we are moving in different directions" or "she is too career driven". What is too career driven. I do work a lot and I am currently in grad school for my doctorate but I feel that I am humble. I come from a very poor family and was first college graduate in generations of my family. I am proud of that and I work hard to be where I am in my career. 

This post was very enlightening. He didn't get along with my parents and used to tell me to go visit them without him, so I did and my parents concurred. Just recently he told me that I taught our children to disrespect him because I took our children to see their grandparents without him which was teaching them it's ok to treat him like an outcast. Is that true? I never intended for that. He also started to complain that I was visiting too long even when I would put parameters on my visiting time. He eventually demanded that I not visit them at all when we traveled home because he was not getting enough of my attention. I encouraged him to go see his family while I was with my parents but he always refused. I never entertained his demands but I think it helped him with his decision to leave today because he always told me that I put my family, the kids, and my career before him; taking a backseat were his words. I tried not to but he never saw it another way no matter what changes I made to make him feel that he was more important. 

I think even if I had given into all of his crazy notions, he would not have stayed happy for very long and would have moved on to another crazy notion. I don't think that anything I did would ever make him happy.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> What you have lost is you on-paper-only "husband"/partner of 22 years. This guy was never life-long material. His time on the road as a truck driver allowed (required even!) him to create substitute support networks, some virtual, but perhaps others that are very real. His mind is not reliable or predictable. He has been a danger to your financial future for ages, and at some point he might have become physically dangerous to you. Add to that bipolar and depressed people can create depression for those around them.
> 
> He does not have a good life ahead of him. There is virtually zero chance you would have, had you stayed with him. You need to start building your own future. I'm guessing you've got a head start because it's likely you have a separate set of friends from him, which means you'll also be spared the mess of figuring out which side which friend is on (yours or his). I have no personal experience with this, but I doubt, in a situation like this, there will be many friends who could comfortable keep in touch with both parties.
> 
> Praying for strength for you. It's got to be really tough. You'll have moments of relieve and moments of absolute certainty you screwed everything up yourself. You cannot let anything he says get to you.



Very good points and thanks for the prayers, I really appreciate and meed them. I am an emotional mess and I hate those feelings of loss of control. He really has no friends to speak of and he has alienated a good portion of his family. He always said that he could just go completely off the grid and never talk to any of his family ever again and would be fine and then commented that "you couldn't do that" and I would respond, "why is having family considered to be a bad thing?" He would jokingly retract his statement but he said it often so he wasn't joking. 

I started saving and hiding money from him years ago when he first spent our rent money on a casino over the road. That's the first time, I realized that I had to try to control the finances and I did for several years after that but then he opened his own account and demanded to be treated like an adult. He has no idea what he doing or what he is leaving behind. I have saved a good amount of money to help get me through this and maybe even a small home repair or two. If he knew how much I had saved, he would have hung around long enough to get his motorcycle he has been hinting for. I'm really glad I was on to him and refused to take his constant hints about needing a down payment. He knows I have money saved, he just doesn't know how much. 

I don't want bad things to happen to him, I just agree with you that his future is not bright. I don't see this separation as a life changing event for him that will break new ground and give him the new leash on life he is expecting because he cannot change his behavior that quickly. He will fall into his old habits with or without me around.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

You are correct.... nothing you could have done would have ever been "good enough". Peter Pan ain't trying to grow up but rather control you/drag you down to his level because he cannot pull his head out of his ass long enough to see your relationship traveling upwards. 
You should be proud of yourself and your hard work and seeking higher education. I'm sure that's why your hub needs strippers and mail order brides....they ride upon the pleasures of men for security....and damn if you don't. See the problem? 

Seems like you're a fantastic lady who simply got suckered by the wrong guy (like so many have before you....). 
Keep on moving on.  You definitely have my admiration and you're setting a great example for your kids about not letting the circumstances of life hold you back.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

VibrantWings said:


> You are correct.... nothing you could have done would have ever been "good enough". Peter Pan ain't trying to grow up but rather control you/drag you down to his level because he cannot pull his head out of his ass long enough to see your relationship traveling upwards.
> You should be proud of yourself and your hard work and seeking higher education. I'm sure that's why your hub needs strippers and mail order brides....they ride upon the pleasures of men for security....and damn if you don't. See the problem?
> 
> Seems like you're a fantastic lady who simply got suckered by the wrong guy (like so many have before you....).
> Keep on moving on.  You definitely have my admiration and you're setting a great example for your kids about not letting the circumstances of life hold you back.




Thanks so much for your supportive and encouraging words. I was only 19 when I met him and we have both changed (or grown) in 22 years. I think that I tried to help him because there is likely mental illness present. I feel compelled to help him but today marks the end of an era and now I have to figure out how to navigate away from him and I have no idea what I am doing or how to start. I have overwhelming feelings of not wanting this and being forced into it despite what I want. How do I just shut it all off?


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Thanks so much for your supportive and encouraging words. I was only 19 when I met him and we have both changed (or grown) in 22 years. I think that I tried to help him because there is likely mental illness present. I feel compelled to help him but today marks the end of an era and now I have to figure out how to navigate away from him and I have no idea what I am doing or how to start. I have overwhelming feelings of not wanting this and being forced into it despite what I want. How do I just shut it all off?


Time....and support of YOUR friends. As another poster just said, there WILL be two sets of friends and it will be clear who is with whom. He may never stop trying to guilt you. (yes another special treat for you to look forward to, btw).
You obviously love this man and you will probably always worry about him...you have spent your entire adult life with him. He is your adult friend and love that just ain't the right kind of person for a serious marriage. My ex husband (my Peter Pan) passed away last year and I still miss him. 
Keep in mind one thing though: He is toxic to you as your husband. The pretty poison you should not drink. 

It's not going to be easy....you may hurt for a long time. I felt really stupid and "played" after my divorce for quite awhile. I can detect your dread in your post about this new beginning. You are also going to feel something besides the bad things: you will feel RELIEF. It's also going to keep becoming clear you did the right thing. This is a new chance and beginning for the grown up you....and that part ain't so bad


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

VibrantWings said:


> Time....and support of YOUR friends. As another poster just said, there WILL be two sets of friends and it will be clear who is with whom. He may never stop trying to guilt you. (yes another special treat for you to look forward to, btw).
> You obviously love this man and you will probably always worry about him...you have spent your entire adult life with him. He is your adult friend and love that just ain't the right kind of person for a serious marriage. My ex husband (my Peter Pan) passed away last year and I still miss him.
> Keep in mind one thing though: He is toxic to you as your husband. The pretty poison you should not drink.
> 
> It's not going to be easy....you may hurt for a long time. I felt really stupid and "played" after my divorce for quite awhile. I can detect your dread in your post about this new beginning. You are also going to feel something besides the bad things: you will feel RELIEF. It's also going to keep becoming clear you did the right thing. This is a new chance and beginning for the grown up you....and that part ain't so bad




You are so right - I detest this position that I have been placed in. It makes me angry that he thinks he is doing me a favor and that he knows what is best for me. What was best for me would be for him to grow up, seek help, and get well. That would be best for me. I think I am still trying to hang on to some slim hope that this can all be worked out. I have some regrets because he said if I had just sent him a message he would have come home. I feel like this pain could have been avoided. Maybe I didn't reach out this time because I know subconsciously that I cannot take this anymore. There has to be more to life than struggling to keep my head above water. He never stressed about household repairs that needed to be done. I have many projects that he started and left unfinished because he wanted a reptile and a 75 gallon fish tank or whatever the fun thing of the month was. Now those things are sitting here for me to figure what to do with while he prances off to the beach to text me that he is "saying goodbye" and "closing the book" all while spending more money that could be going to better things. 

I'm seriously on an emotional roller coaster here. I'm sad, I'm crying, I'm mad, and back around again.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Why am I not worth a proper adult conversation after 22 years? He said I had an opportunity to discuss the issue and I ignored him. I waited for him to step up and acknowledge his behavior. When he didn't do that, I refrained from starting the conversation which is what he said he was waiting for and when I did not, he took it as a sign to leave. Why do I have to do all the begging and communicating in this relationship? When did I take responsibility for everything? Why he can't even just apologize for what he did? Why didn't I just do what I normally do and start the conversation? Maybe this time, I could have gotten him to understand that he needs professional help...
> 
> So many questions....


This has nothing to do with what you are or are not worth. It has to do with who and what he is -- a deeply flawed, weak, cowardly, manipulative, selfish, self centered person with no character. No matter what you ask he is going to have an excuses for his behavior and try to spin it back around on you, simply because that is who he is. Liars lie. Cheaters cheat. Self centered people don't care about others. It has nothing to do with the other people, it's who and what *they *are. Hang in there, it will definitely get better with time and distance. Some day you will shake your head in wonder that you were ever remotely interested in this person and realize how much you've grown, how far you've come, since him. Right now, just keep putting one foot in front to the other. 

Your questions are understandable but there is no answer that will makes sense to you because you are trying to think of this man like a normal person with normal motives -- in which case YOU must have done SOMETHING wrong or NOT done something right. But it doesn't work that way. 

Think of it this way -- when a parent abandons their child, or puts their own fun - drinking, partying, gambling, whatever ahead of their child -- do you ask "What did *that child *do wrong?" NO. You understand instinctively the parent is the person with the problem. When someone is racist against someone because of their skin color, do you ask "What did that person not do right that they don't like them?" No. Of course not. Same thing here -- you doubt yourself because of all this but you are not the cause of his being a pathetic loser. You're not powerful enough to take a decent man and turn him into an *******.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

WorkingWife said:


> This has nothing to do with what you are or are not worth. It has to do with who and what he is -- a deeply flawed, weak, cowardly, manipulative, selfish, self centered person with no character. No matter what you ask he is going to have an excuses for his behavior and try to spin it back around on you, simply because that is who he is. Liars lie. Cheaters cheat. Self centered people don't care about others. It has nothing to do with the other people, it's who and what *they *are. Hang in there, it will definitely get better with time and distance. Some day you will shake your head in wonder that you were ever remotely interested in this person and realize how much you've grown, how far you've come, since him. Right now, just keep putting one foot in front to the other.
> 
> Your questions are understandable but there is no answer that will makes sense to you because you are trying to think of this man like a normal person with normal motives -- in which case YOU must have done SOMETHING wrong or NOT done something right. But it doesn't work that way.
> 
> Think of it this way -- when a parent abandons their child, or puts their own fun - drinking, partying, gambling, whatever ahead of their child -- do you ask "What did *that child *do wrong?" NO. You understand instinctively the parent is the person with the problem. When someone is racist against someone because of their skin color, do you ask "What did that person not do right that they don't like them?" No. Of course not. Same thing here -- you doubt yourself because of all this but you are not the cause of his being a pathetic loser. You're not powerful enough to take a decent man and turn him into an *******.




Excellent analogy and helps put in perspective a bit for me. How will I ever learn to trust anyone else ever again? I'll always be looking over my shoulder and suspicious. Even now, I wonder what he is doing. I'm just trying to make sense of the good things he did with the hurtful ones. He was so much more than his flaws in my opinion. I took his flaws and tried to work with him but in the end he still wouldn't stay, seek help, and he still wouldn't speak to me outside of texting me today. It's hurtful. My work and marriage was diminished to a text message goodbye from my favorite place. A place I cherish to unwind at. I will never see it the same way again... except for the end of my marriage via text! :crying:


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

It takes more than a text message to actually dissolve a 22 yr marriage...as he will find out.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I actually spoke with him today and he said that he waited all day to hear from me yesterday. He made up his mind that when he didn't receive a message from me by this morning that he would leave the relationship behind. Of course this means that I am left with the house, the dogs, the debt... which is very overwhelming.
> 
> In some twisted way, I want him to come home and talk to me rather than decide that because things didn't go his way and that I didn't reach out to him as I have done in the past that he is done. He won't let me call him to speak to him and he says that he was ignored by me so again I am at fault and this was his "sign" to call it quits. He has said his goodbye via text message. After 22 years, I don't even deserve a face to face conversation about anything, much less discussing a plan about how we will deal with finances, etc.
> 
> ...


I am so sad for you to read this. It will get better over time.

Regarding the debt:

1. Do you have a credit card that has room on it for emergencies?
2. If you did not have to pay credit card debt, can you afford the rest - house - mortgage, utilities, gas, etc. plus groceries and whatever you need to get through each month on your own and take care of your daughter on the income you do have?

If so, you will be okay. Whatever portion of the debt you get stuck with after the divorce just know: They don't jail people for not paying debt. (I assume you're in the US) A lot of the debt balance is probably INTEREST and while yes, the bank wants to get paid that, they will be JUST FINE if they end up with less than the full balance, and they would rather settle for part if they understand the money simply is not there.

Once this man is no longer running up your debt you will have control over your finances. Your credit will take a hit if you miss payments or settle, but if you already have a home and are bringing in enough to keep going, and have a credit card for emergencies, you can weather the credit hit.

There are probably people on here who know more than I do about this, but basically: Don't get too stressed over the debt. It will work itself out and you will be okay even without a bankruptcy. When I divorced I discovered my ex had run up $50K in credit card debt -- more than half in MY name which stayed with me. :surprise: I'm working at handling these with the bank and my credit is bad at the moment, but I'm more relaxed and feel more financially stable than I ever did while married to him.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

WorkingWife said:


> I am so sad for you to read this. It will get better over time.
> 
> Regarding the debt:
> 
> ...



I don't have a credit card for emergencies. I lost that in the bankruptcy that he had dismissed so that he could keep his truck that he walked away from a short time later. It was a lease purchase from a trucking company; he intended to become an owner operator. He has 5 credit cards in his name right now and I also begged him to stop applying for them knowing his history. Every card is maxed out. When he did the lease purchase, he never paid taxes and I had no extra money with my wage garnishment from the bankruptcy to pay his taxes. We owe more than $20,000 to the IRS and I stress constantly about losing my home or going to prison. He always tells me that I worry to much but yet he never put a nickel toward those bills to alleviate my anxiety. He hasn't filed 2018 taxes like he told me he was going to do. I called my accountant today to inquire about filing separately so that my taxes get filed because I don't know what my liability here is. He has a student loan I've been paying on from when he decided he was going to be a diesel mechanic and then quit about 6 months later; I still owe about $3,000.00 on that. I may have to stop paying on that to put my focus elsewhere. 

I think I can afford the rest but it will be very tight without any extra to do some major home repairs that are needed but have been neglected. I don't want to quit my grad school courses, I really want to prevail despite my current situation but I may also need another part time income.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

I damn sure wouldn't be paying on his student loan after that text message. Consider that definitely NOT your problem.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

VibrantWings said:


> I damn sure wouldn't be paying on his student loan after that text message. Consider that definitely NOT your problem.


Totally agree but will it affect me in any way if I don't pay it? I'm looking for an attorney to talk to about all this. I have no idea what I'm doing.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Totally agree but will it affect me in any way if I don't pay it? I'm looking for an attorney to talk to about all this. I have no idea what I'm doing.


I think you'll find your next step involves finishing the bankfruptcy your STBX stopped earlier. That's the only way you'll have absolute clarity about what you owe and if there's any obligation, financially, to him in any way, shape or form. It's not possible that your situation is unique (one person dragging the other through the mud financially, with a divorce included) so there are probably lawyers who specialize in this exact situation. Find that lawyer.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> Totally agree but will it affect me in any way if I don't pay it? I'm looking for an attorney to talk to about all this. I have no idea what I'm doing.


Definitely talk to an attorney about these things. Did you co-sign on the student debt loan? I don't imagine it will be your problem. Regarding the IRS, you can usually make payments with them -- my ex had the same situation, sigh. Let me know AFTER we married he hadn't filed taxes in over 10 years. WTH? 

This man is a piece of work telling you not to worry while he runs up debt like a madman. They are NOT going to put you in prison, but you are stuck with a deep hole to dig out of. But without him digging you in deeper and deeper you will get out of it. It's going to be hard because you're at the peak of what you owe right now. Hopefully you are not on his 5 maxes out credit cards and an attorney will tell you those will be his problem in the divorce. Brighter days are ahead.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

WorkingWife said:


> Definitely talk to an attorney about these things. Did you co-sign on the student debt loan? I don't imagine it will be your problem. Regarding the IRS, you can usually make payments with them -- my ex had the same situation, sigh. Let me know AFTER we married he hadn't filed taxes in over 10 years. WTH?
> 
> This man is a piece of work telling you not to worry while he runs up debt like a madman. They are NOT going to put you in prison, but you are stuck with a deep hole to dig out of. But without him digging you in deeper and deeper you will get out of it. It's going to be hard because you're at the peak of what you owe right now. Hopefully you are not on his 5 maxes out credit cards and an attorney will tell you those will be his problem in the divorce. Brighter days are ahead.



I did not co-sign on the student loan but felt an obligation to keep ahead as much as I can. I feel frustrated that I'm always making rational, responsible decisions while he goes off doing fun things and spending without care or concern about paying bills. I get that spending money on tax bills isn't fun, but we have to be adults and make not so fun, smart decisions. 

I sit here running his words through my head and cannot help to but to feel a sense of regret. He said he waited for a message from me and because I didn't reach out to him, he's made the decision to end it. I wish he would have not told me that. I just keep going over it again and again wishing I could turn back time so that maybe a discussion could've occurred. I can't understand why he thinks that his poor behavior deserves me reaching out. I was the one that should have been approached right? If you come to makes amends to me and I'm angry and don't start the conversation, then it's your job to open it up, not mine. Why the heck is this on me for not reaching out to him??? I don't understand but I can't help feeling regret and I'm obsessing over it. 

What gives him the right to take my power like this now? Why does he feel the need to make sure I know that this is him taking control? And why now, so suddenly act like he is being responsible and that this hurts him more than me? 

He wants to meet to discuss details. I don't know how to act or what to say with all the emotions I'm feeling right now.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

No one can take your power unless you let them. I know that's hard to live sometimes but those words running through your head....sleep on them. If you are not ready to meet with him, then don't. He's manipulating you- stop letting him call the shots. 
YOU DID NOTHING WRONG if you know you did the right thing when it comes to the home you provided. You have two children...you had no other option but to be the responsible one. Believe me,...your kids are going to figure all this out, if they have not already.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I did not co-sign on the student loan but felt an obligation to keep ahead as much as I can. I feel frustrated that I'm always making rational, responsible decisions while he goes off doing fun things and spending without care or concern about paying bills. I get that spending money on tax bills isn't fun, but we have to be adults and make not so fun, smart decisions.
> 
> I sit here running his words through my head and cannot help to but to feel a sense of regret. He said he waited for a message from me and because I didn't reach out to him, he's made the decision to end it. I wish he would have not told me that. I just keep going over it again and again wishing I could turn back time so that maybe a discussion could've occurred. I can't understand why he thinks that his poor behavior deserves me reaching out. I was the one that should have been approached right? If you come to makes amends to me and I'm angry and don't start the conversation, then it's your job to open it up, not mine. Why the heck is this on me for not reaching out to him??? I don't understand but I can't help feeling regret and I'm obsessing over it.
> 
> ...


He wants to meet to further twist you up into his little drama drag queen whine-o-sphere. He will do nothing more than twist this into being your fault like he already has in the
past over and over and over and over. He knows you buy into it.

Your stronger than you think ....... and he knows it ..... and he fears it.

Stand your ground.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> I sit here running his words through my head and cannot help to but to feel a sense of regret. He said he waited for a message from me and because I didn't reach out to him, he's made the decision to end it. I wish he would have not told me that. I just keep going over it again and again *wishing I could turn back time so that maybe a discussion could've occurred.* I can't understand why he thinks that his poor behavior deserves me reaching out. I was the one that should have been approached right? If you come to makes amends to me and I'm angry and don't start the conversation, then it's your job to open it up, not mine. Why the heck is this on me for not reaching out to him??? I don't understand but I can't help feeling regret and I'm obsessing over it.


It doesn't matter if you had reached out he would have come up with some other bull**** why it's all your fault and the end result would be exactly the same. Do you honestly believe that if you had made a phone call 4 hours earlier than you did, he would have wanted to stay together and become the dream husband? Nope, that was never going to happen. He's an irresponsible, selfish, self-centered ass who will go to his grave just like he is. The only thing that is your fault is believing the manipulative bull**** he has been selling you for years. You are the prize, he's the booby prize. He's been using you as his checkbook, maid and sex supplier when he wanted it. You are so much better than that and you need to recognize your worth and stop second-guessing yourself. With the exception of some self-esteem issues, you sound like a lady who really has her act together. Why waste that on the man-child that is your husband.
You will survive this and come out a stronger more self-assured person on the other side ... unless you buy into his crap and take him back. You can bet on the fact that he will come back when he needs something. You need to practice the 180 on him. There is a link to it in my sig line. This is for you to get separation from him mentally and soften the blow of divorce. You should not use it as a manipulation tactic to get him back although that is a normal side effect. They try to come back when they realize they aren't in control anymore. Hopefully, by that point, you will have realized how much better your life is without this loser in it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He may (now or at some point in the near future) rethink things after considering what his life will be like without you. He could decide "to give you another chance." Don't consider it for even a moment if he offers to allow you to stay with him. You should have left him long ago. Your life will never be what it should be as long as you're with him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

"Here! Just hold these two terminals whilst I apply the voltage!"

"Thanks, but I think I'll pass on your suggestion!"

Don't meet with him.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Rubix Cubed said:


> It doesn't matter if you had reached out he would have come up with some other bull**** why it's all your fault and the end result would be exactly the same. Do you honestly believe that if you had made a phone call 4 hours earlier than you did, he would have wanted to stay together and become the dream husband? Nope, that was never going to happen. He's an irresponsible, selfish, self-centered ass who will go to his grave just like he is. The only thing that is your fault is believing the manipulative bull**** he has been selling you for years. You are the prize, he's the booby prize. He's been using you as his checkbook, maid and sex supplier when he wanted it. You are so much better than that and you need to recognize your worth and stop second-guessing yourself. With the exception of some self-esteem issues, you sound like a lady who really has her act together. Why waste that on the man-child that is your husband.
> You will survive this and come out a stronger more self-assured person on the other side ... unless you buy into his crap and take him back. You can bet on the fact that he wifll come back when he needs something. You need to practice the 180 on him. There is a link to it in my sig line. This is for you to get separation from him mentally and soften the blow of divorce. You should not use it as a manipulation tactic to get him back although that is a normal side effect. They try to come back when they realize they aren't in control anymore. Hopefully, by that point, you will have realized how much better your life is without this loser in it.




I know you are right on so many levels here. I feel like we grew up together, well I grew and he stayed the same in many ways. I had a difficult childhood where I came out with no self worth or self esteem so maybe this relationship really stems from my inner issues and that's why I am hanging on to it. It's really all I ever knew. He was my first boyfriend, my first love. I was not allowed to date when I was living at home and I had little experience of the world and dating when I left home at 19 years old. He's always been supportive of my professional goals and I have stood by him time after time through all of his online trysts. He's openly admitted several times how lucky he is and how stupid he is at the same time. He also stated he needs to change but without me in his life. Honestly, I would probably continue to live like this until one of us dies but he has said he needs to separate so that he can find out if this is his behavior without me in his life, so he can work on his heart. I believe that his behavior will not change, maybe at first when the next relationship is new but eventually he will fall in to his old habits with a new person. He needs mental help not heart help. I'm constantly back and forth about how to transition to this next step (angry, alone, and distraught or calm, supportive, and with some open dialogue with him throughout). 

💔💔💔


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He's apparently several years older than you. There's a reason he picked that naive, unworldly 19 year old to marry. Sure you could spend the rest of your life with him, and ignore who he is, but why would you? Make the most of your life because time passes all too quickly. 

He's not going to find someone like you out there and he'll be back sooner or later with all sorts of promises (because he's a user and users use). Hopefully, when he does you'll realize you deserve far better and send him on his way.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Openminded said:


> He's apparently several years older than you. There's a reason he picked that naive, unworldly 19 year old to marry. Sure you could spend the rest of your life with him, and ignore who he is, but why would you? Make the most of your life because time passes all too quickly.
> 
> He's not going to find someone like you out there and he'll be back sooner or later with all sorts of promises (because he's a user and users use). Hopefully, when he does you'll realize you deserve far better and send him on his way.




He was 23 when I met him, so about 4 years older. His mother had Bipolar Disorder and committed suicide about a year or two before I met him. We were both young had had some tragic tales so we helped each other survive and I was too young and dumb to see the signs early on. Do you see where I have this need to help and save him? I feel badly that he is still (20+ years later) dealing with the loss of his mother. I have to come to terms with the fact that I absolutely have to set him free but it kills me. I may his barrier to healing and getting well and I have been his barrier for several years.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

Reading your story is kind of "eerie" to me in a way because it parallels my own so much. My ex also had a fish tank and reptiles/snakes. I was quite young when with him (22 when I married him...pregnant). His mother died shortly after we met so I married him two years after she died. I worked many more hours than him while attending four years of night school for my associate's degree. I come from a poor background. He was with me almost my whole adult life when we split. (I was 38 at the time). 

I survived and so will you. Nice to know I'm "not alone".


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

The student loan, and anything else that is only in his name, is not your responsibility any longer. You will find that without his drain on the family, you'll be much more financially stable than you think. Especially if your daughter still qualifies for child support from him due to her disability.

One of the first things you should do is close every possible joint account that's in both your names, so he can't do you any further financial damage. Then do what you need to do for those accounts that you can't close. "Oh, I had to sell your fish tank online because the mortgage was due." I'm a little worried about the money you say you have saved, especially since he knows it exists. Technically, it's probably half his. But you can use it to pay down joint debts so you can close them and detach from him financially.

He broke up with you in a cowardly way because that's who he is. He also twisted it around to seem like your fault, for not calling him during some critical time period, which is utterly ridiculous. A man who wants to save his marriage will go to the ends of the earth to do so. He just wants to be able to tell himself it's not his fault, and the fact that it was hurtful to you may not even have occurred to him. He probably doesn't have a history of sensible decision-making, so this is just continuing the pattern. Making the decision 'out of his hands' by leaving it to an arbitrary 'sign.' It certainly sounds like he has a history of making things anybody's fault but his own. Don't give it any further headspace. Evidently he stopped valuing the marriage a long time ago, if he ever did, and just didn't tell you.

If he wants to be responsible now, take advantage of it, and get him to be generous in the paperwork, take on all his debts instead of halving them, etc.

You'll learn to trust again the same way the rest of us do. Slowly over time, and using this experience to develop a better sense of when we're being used and lied to.

Find a new place to go to and make it the new happy place.

The emotional roller coaster is real, but temporary. Take advantage of the angry phases to take necessary actions, and forgive yourself the sad phases which are necessary for processing. It feels like you've lost control and you are stuck reacting in the aftershocks, but you'll get it back and then some. It's really liberating being single and knowing that you don't have to account for anybody else's idiotic behaviour in your decisions.

You will find yourself looking back on your past with him through a new lens, and recognizing intrinsic behaviour such as his statements about being fine living off grid and not having family. He's apparently never really been deeply connected to you. And he's a middle-aged man, from the sounds of it. He's not going to change. This is who he is.

In conclusion, you now have the power. You don't feel it, but you have it. Go consult some lawyers. Consult all the good ones ahead of him, and then he won't be able to hire any of them. Get lots of advice, and pick the one you think is a good fit for you. Once you know the legal steps to take in your area, and what you are entitled to, you'll feel a lot more certain about where you'll end up.

And seek therapy, too, especially if you can't talk to your family. Having a real person instead of just the internet, is invaluable. Talk to your friends.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Question: If there is a likely known root of the problem (mental illness, bitterness, addiction, etc) and the STBX is willing to try therapy, is it worth possibly delaying the inevitable to make the attempt at reconciliation? If he says he knows that his behavior is inappropriate, wants to stop but can't long term (can stop for a short term), is disgusted and hates himself with what he keeps doing, and knows that this is him also deliberately pushing me away, is it my job to help support him on his quest to get better? He is tearful and remorseful. I realize that seeing him tearful could be manipulation but I can't believe that if he is also saying that something needs to change so that the marriage can survive and that both of us are happy and healthy in the marriage. If he cannot change, he realizes that he needs to leave the marriage which of course kills me. 

Outside of this one issue in our marriage, and it's not a little one, we are a great team, we love spending time with each other, and we have a great sex life. When we are doing well, we are GREAT but we are are struggling, it is devastating and everyone is hurting. How do I forgive but not tolerate the behavior without the threat of divorce when we are trying to deal with this? 

We both feel that couples counseling and individual therapy have to be implemented here.


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## Hewby (Jul 2, 2019)

After all these years, he suddenly sees the light, and is ready to change and be the man he should have been all along? Nah...he's just shocked you took a stand!

I don't think your marriage is great outside this one issue, not based on what you've written here. Sounds like you revising your past because this man has shown some tears and sadness.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

AmbitiousOvercomer said:


> So true and I just keep finding myself hanging on by a thread because I think I have a fear of change and fear of the unknown. As I am sitting here now, I have to keep telling myself that I need to move forward with this separation. He wants to be cordial and friendly to discuss details of the separation but I really don't feel like being nice and making things easy for him. I haven't spoken to him in 2 days and I honestly feel like I can make the changes that I need to if he allows me to shut him out for a bit. I don't even know if that makes sense but I just can't be besties during this process to make him feel better.


I can see you are ALREADY getting past some of the fear of the unknown. You have started to look at your finances to see if you can handle the house. GREAT first step.
You should consult a lawyer to get details around separation, divorce, finances, custody, etc.. Getting this info should help you create a comprehensive plan or two for yourself. This should also help with your fear of change/unknown. You will have laid out a clear path forward for YOU.

You can do this.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Hewby said:


> After all these years, he suddenly sees the light, and is ready to change and be the man he should have been all along? Nah...he's just shocked you took a stand!
> 
> I don't think your marriage is great outside this one issue, not based on what you've written here. Sounds like you revising your past because this man has shown some tears and sadness.



Ugh! Good points. My emotions are all over the place!!


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

VibrantWings said:


> Reading your story is kind of "eerie" to me in a way because it parallels my own so much. My ex also had a fish tank and reptiles/snakes. I was quite young when with him (22 when I married him...pregnant). His mother died shortly after we met so I married him two years after she died. I worked many more hours than him while attending four years of night school for my associate's degree. I come from a poor background. He was with me almost my whole adult life when we split. (I was 38 at the time).
> 
> I survived and so will you. Nice to know I'm "not alone".



Ditto! Thanks for telling me that! I am struggling with the whole idea of giving up on someone I practically "grew up" with.


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## AmbitiousOvercomer (Jul 4, 2019)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> The student loan, and anything else that is only in his name, is not your responsibility any longer. You will find that without his drain on the family, you'll be much more financially stable than you think. Especially if your daughter still qualifies for child support from him due to her disability.
> 
> One of the first things you should do is close every possible joint account that's in both your names, so he can't do you any further financial damage. Then do what you need to do for those accounts that you can't close. "Oh, I had to sell your fish tank online because the mortgage was due." I'm a little worried about the money you say you have saved, especially since he knows it exists. Technically, it's probably half his. But you can use it to pay down joint debts so you can close them and detach from him financially.
> 
> ...




Thanks so much for the logical and sensible discussion! So much of what I need to empower myself because I spend a lot of my time wondering what the right answer is for ME, not anyone else, me when I probably know the answer but don't want to admit it.


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## Hewby (Jul 2, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> I can see you are ALREADY getting past some of the fear of the unknown. You have started to look at your finances to see if you can handle the house. GREAT first step.
> You should consult a lawyer to get details around separation, divorce, finances, custody, etc.. Getting this info should help you create a comprehensive plan or two for yourself. This should also help with your fear of change/unknown. You will have laid out a clear path forward for YOU.
> 
> You can do this.


This this this!


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

1. See a lawyer.
2. Find a support group (church or community like YWCA).
3. Do not let him manipulate you. IMO what he is doing to you is emotional abuse.
4. God does not want you in an abusive relationship. You have gone above what is expected.
5. Take care of yourself. You cannot fix him. If he wants to do that, he can try himself. 
6. You have spent many years trying to make this work. Don't second guess yourself.
7. Ask lawyer about best way to manage your savings. 
8. You have intelligence and courage. You have nothing with which to compare him. You will be surprised and relieved.


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