# Another Sad Story (or a guy that just can't get over her)



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

No different than anyone else, I suppose. But I think keeping a thread/journal will be helpful for me. I started this over in CWI, but I guess it's time to move it over here. Original thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ed-pa-then-left-doesnt-think-she-cheated.html

Me and my STBXW are both 25, married for four years, together for 8. No kids (luckily). If/when this ends up final, it should be a pretty clean break. So I know my story pales in comparison to a lot of you who have been together 20+ years, with multiple kids. A lot of you will just say "cut bait, forget about her, you're young". And you're right. But I can't.

We were friends throughout high school, dated once, but only for three months. She was my first love. At the time I told myself the old adage "if you love something let it go, if it comes back it's meant to be." And then she did come back. So what do I tell myself now?

Short version:

- Grew more complacent/comfortable over the last year. Some distance grew. Those are my faults. Looking back, I kick myself over how easy it would have been to fix, and I fear I'll always regret it.

- Socially we were totally different. I'm an introvert/homebody. She's an extrovert, social butterfly. I did enjoy going out every now and then, but often we would be content with her going out with her friends, and me staying back. Towards the end, this became way too frequent.

- STBXW has always been insecure, low self-esteem. Gained a lot of weight after getting married. She was still beautiful to me, and I always told her so, but she never believed it.

- She lost a lot of weight over the last year - over 70 pounds. With it came new attention from other guys. That, coupled with the distance growing between us, coupled with her social calendar not including me - an EA flared up, became a PA.

- When I confronted her on it, she left. 1 am, New Year's Eve. Happy 2013. She denied, swore he had nothing to do with it, that she needed space to work on us, that I needed to make more an effort, and that I'd never do it unless she could shock me out of my comfort zone. I agreed with this, and still do.

- Three days later, she was done. New bank account opened up, financial ties cut. Planning dates with OM. Referring to me as her ex to all of her friends. I had no idea of this at the time.

- I did everything wrong. Begged, chased. Every other day, an email telling her how I had woken up, how I was ready to recommit and show her the man she married (and I meant all of that, still do). Nothing back but the "ILYBINILWY". Our first MC session (which we agreed to start the night we left), was a week after she walked out. After the session, she dropped the D bomb.

- I went dark for a few days. Couldn't talk to her, or anyone, for that matter. And my gut still was pestering me about the possibility of an affair. I kept gathering evidence, not sure if I was crazy or not. Finally, on Jan 20, got everything I needed. D-Day, but I was already by myself. Still hurt just as bad.

- The next day (Jan 21) she had figured out that I had the evidence (did a poor job of covering my tracks). Came over that evening and confessed (or trickle truthed). That the OM had been trying to seduce her since the first night they met - she kept rejecting him, but still stayed in contact. Finally, one night out at the bar, he went for it, she didn't stop it, and they made out. She swears this was as far as it went. The very next night, she was over at his house for hours (lied to me, told me she was going out with a girlfriend). So I have a hard time believing her, as much as I want to. 

- She apologized for lying, but would not admit to cheating. Argued that he wasn't why she left, that it was semantics. She's always hated cheaters, so of course it's hard for her to admit this to herself. Swore that those feelings for him had passed (which I confirmed beforehand while evidence gathering, but it had just ended literally the day before..still went on for 2+ months).

- Even after coming clean and saying she and OM were done (although they remained in contact as friends, and as far as I'm aware, still do), she had no thoughts of reconciling. Wanted to remain friends though. I tried for a few days, but couldn't do it. I got angry, let her know about it, and went full 180 (Jan 28).

- A week later (Feb 5), I decided to expose. To her family, and friends (mine already knew well before this). Got a lot of support, which was surprising. But I was glad for it. Found out she had been painting a bad picture of me to them, making everything out to be my fault. Glad I defended myself.

- Of course, she gets wind of this the next day (Feb 6), and that breaks the NC. We talk briefly, and she tells me that she's seeing someone else (not the original OM, but a new one). Wants to remain civil, even if we can't be friends. Tells me she wants to sit down sometime soon, face to face, and hash out all of this (including her cheating, or lack thereof). I told her I agreed, and to let me know when. No contact other than that.

- Since then, I've moved out of our apartment. She's been staying at her moms, already found a female roomate and has a new place, moving in on March 1st. Moved back in with my parents for the interim, while I finish paying off the lease (through the end of March), and saving for a place of my own.

- Meanwhile, STBXW keeps trying to reach out to me. On Saturday (Feb 9), reached out about our taxes. She decided to file separately (I agreed), and now finds she owes several hundred to the IRS. Not sure why she told me (is she actually expecting help??). I told her that sucked, but at least she had until April to pay it. Then on Monday, another text "just checking in, how are you? did the move out go well?". Didn't respond until late that night, saying I had moved out, and left it at that.



I know I'm young. I know there are plenty of women out there. I know I don't deserve to be treated like this. But, I still love her. As bad of a woman as she looks like right now, I still believe the person I've known and loved for 11 years is there somewhere.

I still keep hoping for that day when she realizes what she's tossing away, and wants to try again. I know I would take her back, although with conditions - a lot of counseling would be needed (IC and MC). She'd have to rebuild trust, no privacy for a while. But I'd want to try. The thing I'm angriest about right now is that she just gave up, without trying. That I was the only one who took our vows seriously.

Don't get me wrong, I'm keeping up with the 180. I no longer jump when the phone beeps, hoping for a text or an email from her. When I do get one, I don't have an impulse to respond immediately - I can put it down, wait hours, and in some cases forget about it entirely. I make no attempts to reach out to her, and to be honest I don't feel a need to. I still slip back and forth on this roller coaster, but I do know I'm doing better.

I don't _need_ her in my life, I only _want_ her. But I still want her. Yet at the same time, I know I'll be okay without her. It's a weird limbo, stuck between longing/hope, and a comfortable acceptance.


----------



## fandot78 (Feb 10, 2013)

Im feeling your pain right now fam...Hang in there cuz...12 years in my own situation...its hard to believe a person can just turn their back on that much history...


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

fandot78 said:


> Im feeling your pain right now fam...Hang in there cuz...12 years in my own situation...its hard to believe a person can just turn their back on that much history...


That's what's so maddening. She won't admit that she had an EA. She swears the OM had no influence on her decisions or what she did. Yet, how else do you throw all of this away and turn your back within a matter of days?

I kept telling myself she was in a fog. After finding out that her and the OM had fizzled, I had more hope. Then she jumped to the next guy. I know he's just a rebound, but still. If she won't sit still for a minute, be by herself and think about what she's doing, she's not going to realize what she's done until I've moved on and it's too late. Since leaving on New Year's, she's literally spent every day being infatuated with someone.

Jan 1 - Jan 19 - original OM, then it fizzles.

Jan 20 - 28 - comes clean, wants to be friends. We hang out a few times that week, talk almost all day every day. But then I get angry, tell her I'm not a Plan B, and give her another ultimatum. She balks, tells me that's not what she was doing, and we stop talking.

Feb 1 - now - now seeing another guy

I don't know if that week in the middle was my chance to try to bring her back around, but at the same time, I still stick by what I said - I won't be the backup plan. And that's sure as hell what it felt like. Still feels that way, with her every-other-day texts to "check in" on me.

I know I'm spending too much time analyzing her, what she's doing, and why. Can't help it. In a strange way I'm looking forward to this face to face. I don't expect to break through her fog (if she's in one), but just to get some closure.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

You won't draw a reaction from her until you start moving on with your life. 

Sitting back and waiting for her to come back to you will do you NO good.

Up your game and show her that you have as many options as she does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to go date. You'll find her suddenly wanting you very badly the minute you are with a new girl. She has in her head that you will always be a fallback option when she wants it.


----------



## fandot78 (Feb 10, 2013)

I think a lot of the moving so fast is her attempt at justifying her actions.. I think my W was a victim of the same destructive thinking/pattern. I think that some reality is starting to set in for her, be it from guilt or whatever and she has started to sssssllllllloooooowwwwlllyyyy come around. Keep the faith bro. God has the power to change the situation


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Guess you guys are right. Suddenly I'm reminded of when we dated in high school, that same thing worked before. We dated for a couple months, she ended it. We had limited contact for a few months, until I started dating someone else - then she was back, telling me that she missed me, that maybe we could try again, etc. Being so long ago, I have no idea if it would work again, but even if it doesn't, at least I get back out there.

I just have to get over my own shyness and do it. I'm an introvert, with a little bit of social anxiety. I have trouble opening up to people, meeting people, whereas she would always make new friends (and apparently new guy friends) by the bucket load. 

Not sure why the idea of dating again scares me - maybe fear of rejection, but again I don't know why. I wouldn't say I'm a bad looking guy. Maybe just lacking self-confidence. 

But you're both right - she has no reason to even entertain coming back as long as she sees me as the safety net.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

If you are not ready to date then don't. But start interacting with folks. Get out of your comfort zone. Begin living your life for you. Who knows, you'll probably enjoy it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

You don't have kids. Move on.

Easy to say, hard to do. I know, but you can.


----------



## dazedguy (May 16, 2012)

If you aren't ready to date (understandably) do force yourself to get out and interact with other people: volunteer, meetups, reconnect with old friends, ...

If you keep her as your sole focus you will continue to feel miserable. You have no control over her so don't let her be the center of your life. 

Take care of yourself.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

I know I can't control her. I don't want to paint the picture that I'm sitting around waiting for her, I'm not. I have been getting out, reconnecting with old friends, having fun. Hitting the gym. IC recommends volunteering, and I'm going to take him up on it as soon as I have some time.

She contacted me this morning, trying to find a time to sit down and talk. I'm still not sure what about. She says she still has things she's bitter about and wants to talk about, and she knows that I'm still bitter about some things as well (namely the EA she won't cop to). I asked her what she could possibly be bitter about - she has everything she wanted...her freedom, a new place, a new guy, she's keeping the dog, I've been overly generous in splitting possessions. She replied that she didn't have everything she wanted, because what she always wanted was for us to work out. I didn't say anything back to that, but I felt like screaming "then why did you give up so damn quick?!"

I'm not sure what I'm looking to get out of this discussion. I'm certainly not delusional enough to expect her to break down and ask for another chance. I would really like her to come to grips with the fact that she was unfaithful, and show some remorse for it. So far I've seen no indication she'll do that. But she wants desperately to stay friends after all of this, and if we're not meant to reconcile, I'd like that too, somewhere down the road (not right away, of course)...but I'll never be able to do that if we can't get past this. I can't forgive her for what she's not sorry for.

So we'll see how that goes this weekend. Right now I'm just worried about getting through V-Day tomorrow. I've never given that holiday much attention (neither did she), and I have no problem spending it single - just knowing that she has someone else to spend it with already is the kicker. Going to have to stay very busy to keep the mind movies out. Sounds like a good excuse for a guy's night out.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Be patient with yourself rsersen. 

Don't have a sit down with her for the time being - she wants to relieve her guilt and manipulate you into believing that the course she has taken is because of you. Don't give her an outlet for that. I'm speaking from experience.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Be patient with yourself rsersen.
> 
> Don't have a sit down with her for the time being - she wants to relieve her guilt and manipulate you into believing that the course she has taken is because of you. Don't give her an outlet for that. I'm speaking from experience.


I've worried about that, and you're probably right. And once I'm there, I'm screwed either way - sit there and take her beating me over the head about how this is all my fault...or get up and walk out, which in her eyes would also prove that she's right.

We haven't settled on a day/time yet, she said she was going to see what she had going on Saturday and get back to me. I think I'll just make plans of my own and get out of this. Maybe revisit it in a couple weeks. In the mean time keep the 180 going, work on me, and hope that the rebound fizzles out.


----------



## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I really do understand were you are at, and you did a MUCH better job at your "Destruction of your happy life" than I did.

The woman that you still love, died in her sleep two years ago. The thing that wants to talk to you and tell you how wrong you are is NOT your wife, she is just some air breathing POS.

You should morn the passing of your marriage for three days and then rise up. Go to a cancer ward or an AIDS ward and visit people that have it waaay worse than we have it. Then you might see your place on this earth.

You will be happy again, you do have a future, it's just a different future that you will have. Not better, not worse just different.

Good luck David


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Funny enough, after talking about dating (or rather, not wanting to) yesterday, I have one for Saturday. Just kind of happened. I'm still certainly not interested in a relationship, but what the hell, I'll go have dinner and a couple drinks. No matter how it goes, I'm sure it will help just to get out there.

Took ReGroup's advice and kept dodging this sit down. She tried damn hard to make it work.

Her: How's Saturday look?
Me: Hanging out with a friend during the day, and I have a date that night. Friday or Sunday might be better.
Her: Busy during the day Sunday, not sure about Friday, I'll check
Me: How about tonight?
Her: Yeah, that works
Me: Nevermind. Forgot I carpooled to work with my father, so no car.
Her: I can pick you up at work, then take you back home (this would be about 2 hours driving overall for her)
Me: Thanks, but no. I can do tomorrow (threw this out as a feeler to see if rebound was still in the picture), Friday, or Sunday
Her: Tomorrow's v-day, no good (hurt a little to read, but at least I knew). What are you doing Sunday?
Me: Church, then nothing much (we're still going to the same church, although obviously not together, and we've yet to run into each other there)
Her: Oh good, wanna get together after church?
Me: Depends, not sure what service I'm going to.
Her: Well it sounds like it has to be Friday, I can make that work
Me: Sounds good
Me 15 minutes later: Damn, forgot I have plans for Friday. Sorry.
Her 30 minutes later: Ok. Let me know when you're free.

Didn't respond to that. Don't plan on contacting her again for a while, let her come to me. The way I see it, as long as this rebound guy is still in the picture, I have no interest in talking about us, or our issues. She obviously wants to talk more than I do (guilt? a chance to beat me up some more? I dunno), I'm not going to push for it.

I did find it a little telling that when I slipped my date into the convo, she totally ignored it. If she were truly moved on and happy with rebound, I would have expected a "good luck", or "good for you", or "you'll have to tell me how it went". Hell, when she told me she was seeing someone already, she actually had the nerve to say that she hoped I could be happy for her, and that I would really like him if we met (yeah right!). When the shoes on the other foot, it's a totally different reaction.

So a couple hours later I get home from work, my sister asks me if me and STBXW had fought, because she had unfriended all of my family from FB. Same thing with any of our mutual friends that were my friends first. Even a couple of her oldest friends, that I also knew for a while, are gone (I imagine that they read my exposure last week and might have said something). I had unfriended her a while ago, simply to avoid seeing updates, and she had called it childish. Strange of her to now do the same thing. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's only FB after all. I just find her timing and motivation curious, since she hadn't bothered doing this at any point in the last two months. Lashing out because she said "jump" and I didn't say "how high"? Attempt to get attention from me? Who knows. Don't care. Still sad to see her throw away some lifelong friends because they (I assume) had the gall to question her recent decisions.

For V-Day, think I'm going to grab a 6 pack after work, and head back to our apartment (I moved out over the weekend, but still have access until the lease is up at the end of March). Some furniture is still there, and I can watch a couple movies, relax, and have a couple drinks (and I have a few things to pick up anyway). Now that she knows I've moved out, I have a feeling her and rebound will try to show up there at some point. She can't take him back to her mom's, and from what she's told me, he has a few room mates of his own. So I'm sure one of them will realize that they have a big empty apartment to themselves, and try to use it. To hell with that, go put out the money for a hotel room. They're both adults, they'll do what they want, but I'll be damned if it'll be in our marital home, in our bed. Maybe petty of me, I admit. But I don't care. I know I'll feel better there, enjoying my own company (whether they show up or not), than I would out at the bar, having to wonder if they're there.

After that, then I'll look forward to the weekend. Lots to do. Friends to reconnect with. Date on Saturday. Should be a fun few days.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Well going back to the apartment was a stupid idea, no one ever showed. Figured that to be a 50/50 idea anyway. By the end of the night I was just getting mad that I had allowed myself to waste an evening on something so stupid.

I guess, I'm realizing that I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. So my STBXW had a date for V-Day. So ****ing what? Let em have each other. He can deal with her baggage, and with all the emotional issues that she hasn't taken the time to sit down and sort out. Serves him right for being so eager to jump after a cheat who just left her husband. Eventually the sheen will wear off, and either she'll get bored and run away, or he'll realize he's made a terrible mistake and bail. I know that as long as she's not happy with herself, she'll be happy with no one. That should make me sad for her, but it doesn't. I guess I'm not ready to forgive yet. I don't wish her happiness. Not yet, anyway.

And meanwhile, I'm moving on. In my mind's eye, I can see it....a new woman, a loving wife, and a family of my own. It's certainly a ways out (at least I think) - I still need to improve myself, I want to casually date, take things slow. But I know that the happy ending, the one we were supposed to have together - it's out there. Somewhere. I just have to get up and go find it. I'm still in the tunnel, but I'm beginning to see the light at the end of it.

I know the roller coaster ride is still going. Right now I'm in a good spot, I'm sure it will still ebb and flow. That's fine.

It's after midnight. Valentine's Day is over. I survived it. Just another day.


----------



## dazedguy (May 16, 2012)

rsersen said:


> And meanwhile, I'm moving on. In my mind's eye, I can see it....a new woman, a loving wife, and a family of my own. It's certainly a ways out (at least I think) - I still need to improve myself, I want to casually date, take things slow. But I know that the happy ending, the one we were supposed to have together - it's out there. Somewhere. I just have to get up and go find it.


Very well said and I believe you are right about this. Time to accept and move on to the life that is out there waiting for you.


----------



## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm sorry that your going through this bro. It sucks I know all too well. I think once you finally have enough you'll be able to move on. Don't want this to sound like a cliche but your young and with no kids which makes it not as complex. I have no doubts that you will find someone else. I'm about ten years older than you and struggling with my sitch as I also have a young son 3. If she doesn't see your worth fighting for than she is not the one. The way I am trying to look at it is you want someone who will jump in the foxhole with you and stand by your side and fight for something that we feel is sacred... our marriage. Yes marriage is not a fantasy and is not perfect but that's no reason to cut and run unless in extreme unhealthy circumstances. I, like you, hope my wife will wake up soon but if they don't we have to soldier on. That is the part that I am struggling with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks Jack. I took some time to read your thread, and your story sounds so similar to mine. Sorry you're stuck in this boat too.



Jack spade said:


> Yes marriage is not a fantasy and is not perfect but that's no reason to cut and run unless in extreme unhealthy circumstances. I, like you, hope my wife will wake up soon but if they don't we have to soldier on. That is the part that I am struggling with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that's the part I can't seem to get over. Searching for answers I may never get. Our marriage was not perfect - I had a lot of faults, I wasn't the most romantic guy, or affectionate guy. But I didn't drink, or gamble, or have anger issues, I never hit her, hell I don't recall ever even raising my voice at her. We rarely fought at all to be honest, when we did we were able to effectively communicate, compromise and move past it, no rug sweeping that I was aware of. We both seemed like mature adults committed to each other and our marriage, and when we hit a rut, I simply assumed she would stick it out and at least _try_.

At one point early on in our separation, after the D bomb had been dropped, she told me she worried that I would end up hating her for this. I told her that if she found she couldn't go on together, I would respect that decision...but I would only resent her if she didn't try. I still stand by that. Vows are supposed to mean something.

I did nothing to make her run away at full speed into another guy's arms. All I did was stick by and support this woman through some of the toughest years of her life. Her father passed in 2010, she was a wreck, I was there. She has severe endometriosis, sometimes the pain would be so bad she couldn't get out of bed. Required a surgery at one point. I was there. Because of that, we ended up not being able to have children - she always wanted to me a mother more than anything else, and this crushed her. I still don't think she's fully dealt with it, after a couple months of depression I think she just eventually repressed it and we just stopped talking about it. I was there through all of that. And my reward is "sorry, you're just not good enough, no hard feelings though, hope we can be friends."

I read all the other threads in this forum, and it sucks, because a lot of them show at least an attempt being made, going through MC, still living together for a time. We did go to a couple MC sessions, but from the start her heart was not in it, the OM was still in the picture, and she dropped the D bomb on me after the first session. Said she was only there to support me, but not us. So I got angry, told her that if she didn't have a reason to be there besides pitying me, don't bother. And she stopped going. I wonder if that was a mistake. I wonder if counseling could have eventually cracked the fog. I'll never know. Hell, I don't even know if she's still in a fog, or if the 180 is doing anything to her (I know it's helping me, which is the point, don't get me wrong). If the original affair partner goes away, and she gets another boyfriend right afterwards, is it a fog? Or is she just totally moved on (even though it's an unhealthy way to do it, imo), and I'm just chasing ghosts?

I still don't know why all of this is happening. She's given me her list of things that I did wrong to cause this, but these are things I know I need to fix, am willing to fix, and none if it seems to justify throwing all of this away. Maybe I'll never know. Maybe I should have this sit down just to hear what she says about that. I don't know. Of course her list of reasons are only things I've done wrong, she doesn't seem to take any responsibility for us failing (including her own EA/PA). So sitting down would either turn into her just bashing me and me trying to defend myself, or me arguing back with my grievances and her taking offense to that. Doesn't seem like it would be very fruitful, but I still wonder if I could at least gain some insight, or a small amount of closure.


----------



## Jack spade (Dec 29, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Thanks Jack. I took some time to read your thread, and your story sounds so similar to mine. Sorry you're stuck in this boat too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

> I get mad too when she doesn't want to even try. All she is concerned with is running the other way. Our friends and her family don't why she is doing this and I'm still looking for answers. I found a card the other day that she had given me some years ago. In it she told me that I was her rock and that she is so glad that she had me to come home to every night. Made me cry and it dumbfounded me how they could change like that.


Yep, had those feelings as I packed up my things, put her things aside, etc while moving. Came across an anniversary card from October, and the words in it just rang so hollow. 

Recently she told me that October was when she decided that she was done, and started "checking out". I wonder if that was before or after our anniversary. Then I remember Thanksgiving, where we hosted both of our families, and as we went around the room giving thanks, she stood in front of all of them, tears in her eyes, talking about how lucky she was to have me, and how thankful she was. Yet supposedly she was checked out already.

She's either lying, or she deserves an Oscar. I didn't truly begin seeing any signs of her distancing herself until a toxic girlfriend came back into her life, and she met the OM (happened on the same weekend). That was a few days after Thanksgiving. Then things started going downhill fast....but she still is adamant that she did not cheat, and he had nothing to do with her decision-making. Bull****.

Sit down is scheduled for Monday. I want to hear what she has to say, curiosity kills the cat I guess. At least I scheduled it on my terms, and if I don't hear what I need to (her taking some responsibility for what she's done), I think I'll be okay with getting up, walking out, and never looking back.


----------



## DumpedAgain (Feb 14, 2013)

I am new to the divorce world, it was just sprung on me and I am learning how to deal with it

I feel for what you are going thru and I see similarities in some things I am doing

I really do benefit from your story and how you are dealing things


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorry you're here man. Sorry we're all here. I'm glad my story is helping you, but I'm not sure I'd call what I'm doing "dealing". Right now it just feels like I'm on a roller coaster that doesn't stop, and as much as I'm trying to put one foot in front of the other and regain control, it's tough. It does seem to be happening, slowly.

I'm still in the same anger/determined stage as last night. I consider that a good thing - any stable emotions are welcome right now. 

I'm angry at her. Obviously. I'm angry at her toxic friend that almost certainly influenced her to do this (knowingly or not), and then knew she was cheating, enabled it, helped spin the lies, and still came over to our place and small-talked with me like nothing was wrong. It's not as if I expected her to rat on my STBX (although I think any notions of "guy/girl code" should go out the window in a marriage). But at least have the decency to tell my STBX "this is wrong, I won't rat you out, but don't ask me to help cover it up." 

The height of my rage came today, when I allowed myself to think back on the night she left. New Year's - driving home from a party. The night before, I had finally been able to get a hold of her phone, and had found out she was lying about where she was that night, and had gone over to his plcae by herself (told me she was with toxic friend, she helped cover for her). I had confronted her on New Year's Eve morning, got gaslighted again, she talked about leaving, but I talked her down. Went to a party that night with friends, had a great time, but I noticed she was still texting him all damn night. On the way home, I said enough was enough. Told her I wasn't comfortable with her "just friendship", and wanted her to cut the guy off, at least while we worked on our problems. Of course she flipped - I was controlling, etc etc, and she was going to her mom's for a while. Still swore that she wasn't giving up, she just needed space. I knew I couldn't stop her, and didn't try to.

As she was packing her things, I sobbed. So did she. I didn't try to talk her out of it, or beg or plead, but I certainly couldn't stand there with a strong face as she did it. Before she left, she told me that I had been all wrong about her and the AP...that he had actually been on my side, telling her to give me another chance and stay. At the time, being so distraught, I believed it. And felt like the world's biggest idiot. I had been all wrong, and my paranoia had pushed my wife away, all because I didn't trust a guy who was actually trying to help our marriage.

Haha...of course, as it turns out now, that was all bull****. I feel stupid for ever believing it. And I'm infuriated about that lie in particular. I mean, the other lies, the sneaking around, are terrible enough - but on some level, I understand the "necessity" to cover your tracks. But that lie was so unecessary, with no intention other than to hurt me. Malicious. Here I am, being walked out on, on New Year's Eve, and in my STBX's mind, she thinks "I'm not hurting him enough already, let me feed him this BS and kick him while he's down." Wow. All I can think is, what a C.

And yet, I still miss, mourn, and hope for the return of the woman my wife was. But I want no part of the woman she is now.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

We're going to sit down Monday and talk. She says it's about making peace, and closure. Not sure for who's benefit. I'm really not sure how to approach it. It's tempting to go in guns blazing, burn bridges, and just walk away. But I think I'll be better served with a "180" approach - cool, calm, detached, no begging or trying to reason with her. But of course we'll see how it goes - no telling what my emotions will be by then, or how they'll fluctuate as we're together.

I'm going to bring up that lie I just talked about. She needs to feel like **** for it, she needs to be sorry about it. She needs to acknowledge her affair and be sorry for that too. I'm not sure how she can still deny it - her family, her friends, my family, my friends, are all sympathizing with me, and are in agreement that I was betrayed. She (and her toxic friend, maybe) are the only people in the world who still have their head in the sand and think she didn't cheat.

I'd like to be able to get past those things - I miss the friendship I had with my wife, which was the foundation for our relationship. When we were hanging out for that one week post-separation (between her original EA/PA ending, and moving on to OM2), I saw my old wife return, if only for a few days. I'd like to be able to get back to that place one day. Obviously I'd still need time away from her to heal, but eventually I would want her to remain part of my life, together or not. I know she does too, and I believe her. But I can't and don't want to be friends with the remorseless woman that has taken her place.


Out of curiosity, I did ask her why she had gone on a sudden FB defriending spree. Asked if her and her childhood friend had had a falling out - she told me that her friend had gotten pissed at her after my exposure (good!), and she removed my family/friends so she didn't have to see updates from people who "probably despised" her. She keeps using this strong language - she's afraid I'll hate her, afraid everyone will hate her, worries people despise her. And because I know how much she worries about what other people think of her, I've always calmed her down - I don't hate you, I'm just disappointed, or nobody hates you, they just don't like seeing me upset. This time, I didn't. What other people think of her isn't my problem - she can worry about that until she's sick, I'm not going to comfort her. This is the bed she made. I simply told her I'd see her on Monday.



Anyway, TGIF. Need to get a haircut tomorrow, way overdue. A little nervous, because I have no idea what I want. My STBX has cut it for me for the last 8 years, and I just let her do it the way she liked, because I didn't care. But if I'm going to "get back out there", of course I have to care. Might just let the stylist have her way and see what happens. Then shopping for some new clothes - fashion is another area I started to neglect after so long together (not that I couldn't dress to impress when needed), so my wardrobe desparately needs some upgrading. First steps to a new me.


----------



## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

rsersen,
I am sorry for what you have been through.
Im afraid that meeting with your wife is a mistake but not a biggie, you will recover from it, but it will be hard on you.

It sounds like she want to think well of herself and she does not want the cheaters label. I hope that you hold out for the truth.

Remember forgiveness does not make the other person better it just relaeses you anger.

I would tell someone that "I thought you were better than this, but your actions define you, I cant change that." "For my own sake I will release my anger over how you wronged me but only so I can move on, your feelings are your problem, but I would not have a person like you in my circle of friends."

"I have no ill will for you, but my respect for you as a person is gone"

Just somethings to think about for you meeting.

You owe her nothing.

Has anyone recomended the bood a married mans sex life, its not a sex manual it about how woman work and how to keep their interest after a lont term relationship or marriage where the guy tends to relax a bit or worse, thins about getting it.

I will you well I hope you post the results of the meeting.

He actions, cheating, lying, bad mouthing you are hers to deal with not yours and we do people no favor whan we make it easy to rugsweep thhese type of behaviors.

Take care!


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks decorum. I actually decided (about an hour ago, actually) to cancel tomorrow's meeting. 

The trigger was another Facebook post tonight, a triple date with her and OM2, and two couples that we were (supposedly) mutually friends with. I wasn't looking for a wound to be opened, just stumbled upon it - didn't realize I would have to block more people than just my STBX.

At that point I realized that I'll get nothing out of tomorrow. She won't admit to any wrong doing. All I'd get are more rationalizations and arguments. Any attempt to talk or ask questions about us and how we got here would be pointless, as her head is clouded by her infatuation with OM2. The only thing I would get out of it is the chance to tell her to f off and release my anger, but I don't need to do that face to face.

This would all be about her - her need for closure, to alleviate her own guilt. I don't owe her that. If she has something to say she can write it down, or keep it to herself. I've said my piece a dozen times by now. She knows what I expect from her if we were ever to think of being friends again. If she won't do that (and I see no signs that she will), then there's nothing to talk about.

So I cancelled. Did not receive a reply text, she's probably asleep by now. I'm sure I'll get a "why?" tomorrow, and I'm simply going to tell her that I do not want to see her. The end.

I'm weighing my legal options now. I'm in Maryland, so unless I'm filing under adultery, we have to wait a full year for an absolute divorce. There is no such thing as a legal separation here.

I sat down with a lawyer a couple weeks ago, who, for about $1500, would write up a separation agreement (waiving her rights to alimony, my retirement plans, etc). Downside to that is a) my STBX doesn't have to sign it, and if she choose not to, I've flushed $1500, and b) even if she does sign it, the courts could always throw it out a year from now, depending on the circumstances at that point (i.e. she loses her job between now and then).

If I file under adultery, the divorce is immediate. My evidence of the original affair is likely not enough to prove adultery in court (and a lot of it would be inadmissable due to how it was obtained). However now that she's dating someone else, and not even trying to hide it from anyone (besides her family), I believe I could hire a PI and get everything I need, and it would cost me the same $1500, or less. Then file, have her served, and be done with all of this in a very short amount of time.

She seems to be under the impression that separated = single. She's treated this entire process as if it were a high school fling. "No hard feelings, hope we can be friends", seeing someone else, etc. It still blows my mind. Getting served may be the 2x4 she needs to show that her actions have consequences. Or at the very least, I can get out of this quickly and relatively cheaply, and begin moving on.


----------



## DumpedAgain (Feb 14, 2013)

I feel for you, Like you I have climbed divorce mountain
stood at the precipice wanting to jump. But now I
am coming down the mountain seeing how it will finally end

It is a relief when we finally start to see life might actually be
better after divorce


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She seems to be under the impression that separated = single. She's treated this entire process as if it were a high school fling. "No hard feelings, hope we can be friends", seeing someone else, etc. It still blows my mind. Getting served may be the 2x4 she needs to show that her actions have consequences. Or at the very least, I can get out of this quickly and relatively cheaply, and begin moving on.


Exactly. And I am wondering on how you cannot see that. Ignore her. Her meeting is for herself. You need not even be civil with her. Be cold next time she replies. Tell her you believe that she will never be honest and you don't need such people in your life


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Did not hear anything back about my cancellation last night, so I sent another text today. I didn't want her showing up and getting stood up, although I shouldn't care.

She asked when I wanted to reschedule, I told her that I did not, and I didn't want to see her. She asked to call me later, and I told her I'd rather not, just write down whatever you feel you need to say.

"Fine. I wanted to apologize but if you're going to be a bitter, nasty, little child, I'll wait for you to grow up. There are some business matters I need to discuss, but in order to accommodate your ridiculous attitude, I'll email them."

Oh, young love. The sheen wears off a little more each day.

I sincerely doubt she wanted to apologize. That's just her way of getting me to second guess what I'm doing, and give in to what she wants (a sit down or phone call). If she were truly remorseful, she would understand that not wanting to see my cheating STBX is not a "ridiculous attitude", and she could apologize via writing just as easily.

**** her.


----------



## DumpedAgain (Feb 14, 2013)

indeed ****** her!!!!


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

So today, I suppose, marks the official death of our marriage. I'm told by a friend that she has removed a bunch more mutual friends from Facebook. I'm blocked, but I did check it from a family member's account. She's removed the wedding photo cover picture that has been bothering me for two months, and her and her rebound are now "official", with an anniversary date and everything. Her oldest and best friends are cut out from her life. A family (mine) that she has been close with for years, even before we were together...gone. She has completely isolated herself within a circle of cheerleaders and toxicity, and I have no ability or intention of breaking through it.

I hired a PI today (before seeing all of this, had been thinking about it for a few days). Now that her and rebound aren't even trying to hide anything anymore, it should be extremely easy to get the evidence I need. PI agreed. Case should be over by the end of this weekend, as I already know where she/he will be together (again, too many people post things on FB thinking the world can't see). Once I have my evidence, I'm filing with fault. Otherwise I have to sit around for a year and wait to file...and while she's currently made no mention of wanting alimony, part of my retirement, etc...I don't need her changing her mind 6 months from now and blindsiding me.

I texted her today, kept it simple, looking for the money she owes me for the last three months of our lease that she stuck me with. She again expressed an interest in sitting down to talk. I agreed to meet her tonight for a drink/dinner. It gives me a chance to act friendly and coax more info out of her about her weekend plans (that I can then give to the PI), and I can hear what she's been so desperately wanting to say. At least I can go in now with no expectations of her showing regret (not that the expectations were that high anyway).


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

So dinner was...I don't know. Glad I did it, I guess.

Her EA/PA - I saw remorse. Finally. She said it didn't fully set in until she starting going steady with rebound...at that point her and OM1 were still talking about being very friendly, then suddenly he pulled back, and stopped bothering with her at all. At that point she realized he had been playing her...to which I responded "no ****". She acknowledged that she never should have put herself in that position to begin with, since he was hitting on her from the start, and she found him attractive (although at the start she still was only interested in a friendship). She recognized her lack of boundaries. She still insisted that he had nothing to do with why she left, he was only a catalyst, and in her mind she had already decided. I realize that's probably true. I asked her why she didn't just get up back in October and leave, why she waited for a guy to chase, and she started crying and said she was a coward.

We talked briefly about my exposure to our families and friends. She was not mad or angry about it (although she still thought it was no one's business). She's lost a lot of friends and support over it, but she says she deserves that. That was the biggest sign to me that she was truly remorseful. I've read it somewhere else on here. Remorse is not caring what other people know or say, because you're already beating yourself up, whereas if she was only guilty, she would still be mad about me telling everyone. I did not use the words "I forgive you", but I acknowledged that it wasn't easy for her to say all of this, and that I appreciated it.

I broke the 180 a little bit, and at one point asked her point blank "if you say that you always wanted this to work, why did you quit?" Her response - "I knew it couldn't work." I retorted that she also "knew" that she needed to be single, find herself, and be happy with herself before getting into another relationship. Just to let her mull over the idea that she's not as certain as she thinks. Then let it go.

Talked about her rebound a little bit. Said he had approached her about a relationship first, and she had been reluctant, told him she wasn't ready. A couple weeks later he commented on the fact that they were hanging out almost every day, talking all the time, and liked each other, so it seemed like they were already in one. She acknowledges that it's moved really fast, probably won't last, but she's just seeing where it goes. I warned her to make sure his intentions were pure (if a girl wanted to get involved with me who just left her husband, I'd run for the hills), because she had already been played by one guy. Told her I didn't want her to get hurt. She started crying again, couldn't believe that after all she had done, I would even care what happened to her.

At one point, I brought up her comment from earlier that she hoped I could be happy for her, and that she thinks I'd like him if I met him. She agreed that was dumb to say. I told her I had no interest in meeting the guy that was ****ing my wife. She just looked away. Self inflicted wound on that one - I guess I was hoping to hear "we haven't yet", or "I'm not ready for that yet". Ouch. I'll 2x4 myself on that. 

Her family is not really happy with the new guy. Her mother called her an adulterer. Her friends are a mix of concerned/upset that she's rushed into something else so soon (including the married couples we used to hang out with). I wish she would listen to them. But it makes me feel better - I had painted this picture in my head that I had simply been replaced with the next guy, and everyone was happy to move on pretending I never existed. Glad to see that's not the case.

I told her I was really glad she was happy. This broke her into tears again. I'm not sure if it was totally honest of me, but once I get over my own resentment/bitterness, of course I want her to be happy. She's done a lot of terrible ****, ran out on a marriage, but that doesn't earn her a lifetime of misery from her on out. Right now she's doing what she thinks is right, even if I and most others close to her disagree...but no one's going to get through to her, she has to realize it for herself. I'm still confident that this day will come sooner or later. She reiterated that she did not want to be married to me, did not see a romantic future with me. I know she believes that right now. As is usually the case with a WAW, believe half of what they say. A month, 6 months, 6 years from now, maybe different (and hold that 2x4 - that doesn't mean I'm clinging to hope, or sitting around waiting for her).

Finally, breaking the 180 again, I told her this - I don't know where we go from here. But I know that our story doesn't end here. We've drifted apart, come together, hurt each other, repeated a few times in our lives now. I told her that I was certain it would happen again, whether that meant as romantic partners, or just friends. She agreed, that there was too much history to just say "goodbye" and never talk to one another again.

I told her that we should take things slow - no telling if one or both of us will wake up angry again in a few days, it's a hell of a roller coaster. I'd keep my communication business related, but there was also no reason not to at least start trying to be friendly again, engaging in casual conversation. Told her I'd wait for her to initiate that. She thanked me, and then we left.


Overall, I think I handled myself well. I didn't get angry, or lash out. At the same time, I did not let her walk on me (at least I don't think). I held her accountable for her actions. I pressed things until I got answers or apologies. I did not condone anything, I did not apologize for exposure, or anything else.

From this point on, assuming she does have interest in striking back up our friendship, to be available and engaging, but not overly so. Let her realize what she's missing, just out of arm's reach.

At the same time, I will keep moving on. Keep casually dating - it was fun, I don't think I'm anywhere near ready for anything serious, but it was nice. Building a better me. If she decides she wants to come along for the ride - great, let's try it again. I may very well find I can't do it, or don't want to do it. If it takes too long for her to come around, I may not have any interest at all, or be with someone else. If she never comes around, that's okay too. I know I'll find what I'm looking for eventually.



On the PI front, I'm continuing with that. She pretty much spilled her entire weekend itinerary to me, including that she would likely end up crashing at rebound's place one night. I'll give that to the PI next time I talk to him, make this the easiest case he's ever had. I'm not sure I'll file right away once I have that evidence. I can keep it in my back pocket, if it turns out she's not sincere, and comes knocking on the door for alimony, then I can pull it out. Otherwise, we still have 10 months before we can file voluntarily...that's a long time. I don't see a need or want to pull the trigger already. But I also don't need to decide that right now, so I'll sleep on it for a while.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Overall, I'm not sure how I feel. The anger has been mostly sapped from me. I'm still mad at what she's doing, what she's done. I still look at her and see a quitter. Yet I can also see that she's hurting over it, and that she regrets it. That makes it hard to hate. As I said, her support from her family is pretty thin. She's lost some of her oldest childhood friends. I'm sure she feels a little abandoned herself, so no wonder she got pushed into a rebound. I still don't regret exposing, I still think it was the right thing to do....yet I'd be lying if I didn't feel a little guilt over it.

I don't feel hopeful. No more than I have been, anyway. I still expect/hope her to come around one day. Certainly no time soon. Maybe never. And even if she did, I'm not sure I could go back. But as I said, I feel like I'll be okay with any outcome there.

I can't say I really feel sad, either. She didn't tell me anything new that I didn't already hear or know (besides that they're ****ing, which was my own damn fault, and that's more jealousy than sadness).

I just feel....okay. I don't know what that means. Am I finally getting around to acceptance? Seems kind of soon. Is this roller coaster just stuck on the tracks right now, down for maintenance, and will start up again tomorrow? Or is this just a side effect of spending time and talking to her - the high of a drug that will soon wear off and leave me back between anger and despair.

I guess we'll see what tomorrow brings.


----------



## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Overall, I'm not sure how I feel. The anger has been mostly sapped from me. I'm still mad at what she's doing, what she's done. I still look at her and see a quitter. Yet I can also see that she's hurting over it, and that she regrets it. That makes it hard to hate. As I said, her support from her family is pretty thin. She's lost some of her oldest childhood friends. I'm sure she feels a little abandoned herself, so no wonder she got pushed into a rebound. I still don't regret exposing, I still think it was the right thing to do....yet I'd be lying if I didn't feel a little guilt over it.
> 
> I don't feel hopeful. No more than I have been, anyway. I still expect/hope her to come around one day. Certainly no time soon. Maybe never. And even if she did, I'm not sure I could go back. But as I said, I feel like I'll be okay with any outcome there.
> 
> ...


What are you going to do to take your focus off of her?

It's you and you alone that you need to be looking out for at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I think you've been handling this really well.

Keep doing what you're doing and let out your fears and concerns here.

Have any dates planned?


----------



## gbonham77 (Feb 21, 2013)

just talk to her for important stuff .... no chitchat or casual talk


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

spun said:


> What are you going to do to take your focus off of her?
> 
> It's you and you alone that you need to be looking out for at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have to think about that one for a minute. I read back through the last couple pages, and I realize most of this has been about her - analyzing her actions and words, trying to figure out what she's doing. It's hard to stop doing, but you're right. I can't fix her - maybe she doesn't really need fixing at all. I know I do though.

Part of my problem was the idea that this split was a "competition", and I had to go out and be happier and live life fuller than she was. Maybe that's a common pitfall, I don't know. But she's an extrovert with a huge circle of friends, and she's out all the time. That's not me. I have a smaller, closer-knit circle, and as an introvert, I often would rather be by myself anyway. So it felt like anything I would do would be paling in comparison to what she was doing. That if she were somehow able to see me sitting around playing video games or enjoying a good book while she was out on the town, she'd have pity for me or something. As stupid as that sounds. So I'd just get trapped reading TAM, thinking about her, looking at the clock saying "wonder where she is right now."

Now I'm starting to realize - that's a ridiculous way to look at things. I have things that make me happy, I should just do them. Who cares what she's doing? And from last night's talk, it certainly doesn't seem that her life is as happy right now as I was imagining it to be. Not that I should care about that either, but it helps a little.

My PS3 has been sitting here gathering dust since mid-December. I have a bunch of games from Christmas to play, but just haven't felt like doing it (again, maybe the idea that it would be considered "lame" compared to whatever she's doing). Screw it. I like gaming. And it'll serve as a nice distraction anyway.

I need to dig my telescope out of the basement and get back outside on the next clear night. That's always been my way of "getting away from it all", and I need to do it again. I've just made excuses recently - too cold, too tired, whatever. None of that stopped me from using it last winter - shouldn't stop me now.

I'm going to get a guitar and learn it. I tried as a teen, never stuck with it. My STBX said she wanted to learn a few months ago. Got her a really nice acoustic, about $400. Figured that if she didn't take to it, I'd use it, and even if she did commit to it, I would just try to learn it when she wasn't using it. Of course, she has it now, and in her own words, hasn't had the time to do anything with it. Likely never will. What a waste. That's fine, I'll get my own.

I'm starting school in a month. My company is sending me back for a Comp Sci degree. I was supposed to start this back in January, but for obvious reasons I delayed enrolling. I'm looking forward to this now - it'll force me to put my focus elsewhere, and I'll feel like I'm really moving towards accomplishing something and bettering myself.

Socially, I do need to get out more. Expand that circle a little bit. I don't need a gigantic support network, but I also know I can't be isolated. An old buddy invited me out for some drinks tonight with some of his co-workers. A few months ago, being with her, I would have blown it off, said maybe next time. Took him up on it though - meet a few new people. I've been doing well reconnecting with old friends. Meeting new people will be tougher. Never been good at it, for a number of reasons, and it's a huge step out of my comfort zone.



> Have any dates planned?


Nothing right now. Like I said, I had fun, and nothing disastrously embarrassing happened. If I hadn't been approached, it likely never would have happened. I've always been pretty passive in that regard - not one to make moves, hit on women, or go actively "looking for love". I've always just let it come to me, and most of my relationships were with people who were friends first, and just naturally developed from there. I think I will sit down sometime soon and work on an online profile, throw the line out, and see what happens. Still not looking for a relationship though. As tempting as it is to find a rebound and cling to her to fill the void, I know it's the worst thing I could do right now.


----------



## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Part of my problem was the idea that this split was a "competition", and I had to go out and be happier and live life fuller than she was. Maybe that's a common pitfall, I don't know.


I know this feeling as well.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Today I'm still feeling the same as last night. Not terribly sad, not terribly angry. I'm still a little resentful of what she's done, how she quit, why I'm here. I don't know if that will ever really fade, short of her wanting to attempt R. But the anger is down a lot from where it was a few days ago. I can't say I'm happy, but right now I'm content, and for now I'm glad the roller coaster has ceased, although I'm sure it's temporary. Part of me fears I may still be in shock from what I learned last night.

The mind movies of her and rebound have been the worst part of last night and today. I can't believe I brought that on myself last night. A literal 2x4 to the head would feel better. I mean, I had already kind of assumed they were being intimate (I mean if you're going out with someone, it's kind of implied), but at least I didn't _know_, and I could try to convince myself that she might not be ready for that yet. Now I know, and I can't unknow it. Kind of like continuing to check a Facebook account for updates from a recent ex - you know there's nothing to find there but pain, but you keep picking at it anyway, and eventually you see something you can't unsee, and you wonder why you did it to yourself.

Sometimes I'm able to easily block them out and focus on something else. Othertimes I find myself dwelling for a few minutes, and asking myself questions I don't want answers to....is he better? Is she enjoying it more? Are they trying things we didn't? And eventually I get to the point where my entire body just feels cold and numb, and I have to get up and take a walk and do something/anything to think of something else.

And on a logical level, I know this is all stupid. I mean, I certainly can't expect her to be celibate for the rest of her life, no more than I would expect myself to be. And I'm sure the movies I'm playing in my head are much more passionate/fantastic than they actually are in real life. I guess it's a mix of jealousy over someone else having her body, and sadness that she, with all of her insecurities about the way she looks, has opened herself up completely to someone else in such a short time. Part of me wonders if I just need a "casual encounter" of my own to get it out of my system, but I've never been that kind of guy, and I doubt it would really make me feel any better.

I know this isn't quite the same as a BS having to deal with mind movies of their WS and the OM/OW....but to those who have been in that boat, how did you deal with this?


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

gbonham77 said:


> just talk to her for important stuff .... no chitchat or casual talk


That's what I've been doing. And if I deserve 2x4s I'll take them. But when I've tried to detach, stick to business only, etc, she just jumps to the conclusion that I'm angry, I hate her, I want nothing to do with her, and then she just shuts down and pulls away herself. I'm not sure if this is a game she plays (knowingly or unknowingly), calling my bluff, trying to see if I'm still there and will reassure her. Not sure if I should just let her throw her "tantrum" and stay dispassionate, because obviously reassurance defeats the purpose for both me and her. 

It probably doesn't help that early on in the separation, and after learning all the details of her EA/PA, I did write more than a couple angry emails/texts. I failed the 180 terribly on that part, and I'm making sure I don't do that anymore.

But it's very hard to display happiness, confidence, and all the rest when you're just not speaking to each other. And there's really not a whole lot of business matters left to discuss, so the excuses to talk are becoming few and farther between. I know the steps in the 180 are supposed to be counter-intuitive, but now more than ever a lot of it feels wrong. 

I'm not saying I would initiate conversation, or hit her up every day trying to talk - that's not good for me or for her, not at this point anyway. She hasn't said anything to me today, and if I hear nothing from her for the next week, I'm okay with that. But if she feels a need to talk to me for whatever reason, I think giving her some kind of warm/happy/confident conversation would go farther than a cold shoulder. I could very well be wrong.


----------



## gbonham77 (Feb 21, 2013)

stay strong man .... you will find someone who is better than her. she is dead


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

gbonham77 said:


> stay strong man .... you will find someone who is better than her. she is dead


You're right. I will find someone much better than the person my wife is right now. I still miss who she was, and I still hope that she would re-emerge, as unlikely as that is. I know many will say the woman I idolized never existed in the first place. Maybe that's true. For now though, she still felt real enough to me. So it's like dealing with two different people - grieving the loss of my wife, while dealing with the anger/resentment towards the person who replaced her.

Little bit of anger again today, at myself and at her. I reached out yesterday about rent money she owed, and after she replied, I added "thanks for sitting down the other night. I'm sure it wasn't easy to say some of those things, but I'm glad you did. Talk to you soon." And....nothing in the...36?...hours since. I shouldn't have done that. And maybe I shouldn't expect anything back - but not even a "thanks for hearing me out", or something along those lines? I don't know. I can't help feeling like I was used, she got her chance to clear her conscience, and now she has no need to talk to me. Which is fine. I'm certainly not going to chase or keep reaching out. 

I know I shouldn't keep the focus on her, but I have spent some time recently trying to focus on her flaws. Knock her off the pedestal, so to speak. Maybe trying to convince myself that I wasn't as happy as I'd like to think either.

- She had a hell of a temper. Often would snap at me like I was the damn dog. If she was under stress of some kind, say, looking for her keys and couldn't find them, and I'd offer up "have you checked such-and-such place", I'd get back "of _course_ I checked there!" in this tone that would just make me shut down. Sometimes she would notice right away and apologize, more often she wouldn't, and I would just try to shake it off and avoid an argument. Doormat tendencies, I guess. Got worse and worse towards the end, and when I brought it up in one of our final arguments, she actually believed she had gotten better at it, and hadn't done it in a couple of years. Nope, not true.

- Compulsive over-spender. We never really "picked" someone to run the finances, I just kind of assumed the role, and was fine with that. We agreed to one rule - if one of us was planning to spend more than a certain amount, we'd run it by each other first. Not for permission per se, but simply so I could check the accounts, and move around money/bills if needed. In 8 years I never once told her no to anything she wanted, and in actuality she probably was spoiled. She always blew this rule off, and I'd get blindsided by multi-hundred dollar shopping sprees. Most of the time she'd come home with several bags of clothes/shoes, I'd ask how much she spent, and she couldn't even remember. I'd get frustrated, revisit our rule, she'd apologize and agree to do it next time...rinse and repeat. At one point towards the end we briefly talked about opening separate spending accounts that we could put money into and spend freely, and she was open to the idea...but I didn't want to feel like I was controlling, or treating her like a child. Doormat again. Well, those are her problems now, and I'm sure it'll be a tough adjustment for her.

- Sexually, totally incompatible. Libidos totally mismatched. I can count on one hand the number of times she initiated in 8 years, despite me telling her so many times how I'd like that. She probably would have been content to go months without if I didn't initiate. The sex was good, don't get me wrong...but bland. Routine, even. No attempts to spice it up worked. Anything outside of PIV was discouraged (at least from her, she was still happy to receive of course). No BJs in 8 years! And "taking care of your own needs" might as well have been grounds for divorce. ****, I wonder how many men in my position would have been driven to cheat themselves. Sorry, not sure if any of that is too graphic for this forum. I digress.

- Very little compromise on her end. She would make up her own rules and guidelines, and if I disagreed or thought they were maybe a little unfair, I was accused of a lack of empathy. That it meant a lot to her, so I should just do it, even if I couldn't understand why. One example - we both smoked, her rule was no smoking in the apartment. I obliged most of the time, but if it was extremely cold out, or bad weather, I would sometimes "sneak one" with a door or window cracked open. When I got caught, it was a huge deal to her. A lack of respect towards her, as she put it. And I'm not saying she was wrong - but when I look at the above list, and all the things that I was frustrated by, and her lack of empathy....I realize she's much better at giving that advice than taking it for herself.

That's a start, anyway. I'm sure I could come up with more if I gave myself more time to. And while I still fully admit to my own flaws and things I did wrong (maybe I'll write those down later), I think it's important for me to realize that she wasn't perfect either, and is not worth the idolation I'm giving her.

Looking forward to the weekend. I think it's the first time since New Year's that I've genuinely been excited for anything. I don't even have any firm plans yet, but my resolution is this - to take a break. I haven't done that since New Years either, and I need to. Just a couple days of no TAM (sorry guys), getting off Facebook, stop unloading on friends and family about everything I'm going through, and just clearing my mind of all of this.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Of course, as soon as I'm ready to start my "take a break" weekend, she makes contact. Email asking me about how to set up internet/tv/utilities at her new place. What level of internet speed is considered "good", at our old apartment did we pay for water and electricity separately, are there are any utilities to pay for besides those, etc. All with a very cheery disposition, and a hope that we can meet up again soon to exchange the money she owes me.

Not sure how to play this one. Blows me off for two days, and when she needs my help again, there she is. My initial reaction is - you threw me aside, I'm not here to help you with any of this stuff anymore. 

Not to mention that all of those questions can be answered with a quick google search, and a quick call to her leasing office. She has to know that, so why is she bothering me with it at all? Just to see if I'm willing to help, or see what kind of mood I've been in since our sit down? I wouldn't blame her for that, since I haven't done a great job of hiding my angry mood swings from her in the past. At the same time, it does come across as somewhat manipulative of her.

Do I help her out here, showing her that I can be friendly, only to have her then cease contact again until she needs something else from me? Or do I ignore it, sending her the message that she has to do these things on her own now - which she will then probably interpret as me being angry, hating her, and she'll pull away again? Or do I reply and just be honest, telling her that I'm not angry, but I'm not going to help you with this, and then let her react as she chooses? Or is that being too much of an @ss?

****. I am so tired of over-analyzing all of this and feeling like I'm on eggshells each time we talk.


----------



## Fisherman (Oct 26, 2012)

rsersen said:


> Of course, as soon as I'm ready to start my "take a break" weekend, she makes contact. Email asking me about how to set up internet/tv/utilities at her new place. What level of internet speed is considered "good", at our old apartment did we pay for water and electricity separately, are there are any utilities to pay for besides those, etc. All with a very cheery disposition, and a hope that we can meet up again soon to exchange the money she owes me.
> 
> Not sure how to play this one. Blows me off for two days, and when she needs my help again, there she is. My initial reaction is - you threw me aside, I'm not here to help you with any of this stuff anymore.
> 
> ...


Ignore it, you need her to pull away from you, you would be enabling her. She sure feels entitled, doesn't she.


----------



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

You have no kids together so there is zero need to talk to her again unless it pertains to divorce.....and after that I would block her number so she cant contact you. She cheated on you. She will do it again too.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Jkw4338 said:


> Ignore it, you need her to pull away from you, you would be enabling her. *She sure feels entitled, doesn't she.*


Very true. This is what she wanted, she's thrown all of this away, and then still expects to turn to me to help her with this, that, and the other. Not sure if that's her trying to tug on my string to see if I'm still there, or if it's some kind of automatic response still in her mind to come to me for help first. I should have told her to ask her boyfriend.

But I chose door #3. Told her that she was going to have a lot of these kinds of questions, and I didn't feel comfortable playing the role of adviser/guide, helping her set up a new life without me. That I'm not trying to be a prick, and as much as I still wanted to take care of her, this is what she wanted, and I can't do that for her. She wrote back and told me that she understood completely, didn't blame me, and wished me a good weekend.

180s and other strategies aside, I think sometimes it's still best to just say what's on your mind. It's an unfair position to put me in, and if my best friend and the woman I loved was still buried anywhere inside of the teenager she's become, she would understand that. And she did.



> You have no kids together so there is zero need to talk to her again unless it pertains to divorce.....and after that I would block her number so she cant contact you. She cheated on you. She will do it again too.


I still have the PI set to tail her this weekend and get proof of adultery between her and her new boyfriend. That, coupled with their relationship being plastered all over her FB profile, should give me a slam dunk. Once I have it, I can file immediately, and be totally done within a couple months. Otherwise, my state mandates a year of separation before filing no-fault. 

I'm still not sure if I'll file immediately, or if I'll keep the smoking gun in my back pocket, as insurance in case she changes her mind about wanting support. But that's also a decision that I don't have to make right away, so for now I'm just going to enjoy the weekend.


----------



## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

You don't need her as your friend.. friends don't do that to each other..

She should have addressed the issue long before she checked out. Her wanting to be your friend is out of guilt.

My second wife and I remained 'friends' for a year after we were divorce.. We went to dinner, the movies, etc.

That all came to a screaching halt once she got serious with someone and they weren't comfortable with me being her friend.

I had to deal with that pain of losing my best friend.. on top of already deal with a failed marriage.

Do you really want to go throught that again???? 

Think this through bro... let her go.. your personalities are too different. If your comfortable being an introvert, don't try to change yourself into something you think she will like... you will end up miserable on the inside.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Ostera said:


> You don't need her as your friend.. friends don't do that to each other..
> 
> She should have addressed the issue long before she checked out. Her wanting to be your friend is out of guilt.


Have to agree with the first part. I could handle my best friend divorcing me, if we exhausted all options and decided this simply couldn't work. I'd still be crushed, but I'd eventually get over it and be fine. It's the affair, the trashing me behind my back, the quitting without trying to resolve anything...that will take a long time to get over. I may never be able to do it. She knows this, and I've told her that if I find out I just can't be friends with her ever again, it's her doing for taking the coward's way out.

I'd like to think it's not guilt so much as it is that she really does care about me, but simply does not find us compatible as a husband/wife pair. Maybe she's right, but I would have at least liked a chance to try and address the issues.



> My second wife and I remained 'friends' for a year after we were divorce.. We went to dinner, the movies, etc.
> 
> That all came to a screaching halt once she got serious with someone and they weren't comfortable with me being her friend.
> 
> ...


Another good point. I think it'd be even worse, because throughout our relationship, I was very lax about her having male friends (and until the last guy, there never was a problem; I met them, knew them, hung out with them, kept an eye out for threats and never saw any). And when I tried to cut off her friendship with her EA partner, I was called controlling and walked out on...and to think that down the road, another guy will tell her the same thing, to cut me off, and she'll listen to him. Not sure I could handle that.



> Think this through bro... let her go.. your personalities are too different. If your comfortable being an introvert, don't try to change yourself into something you think she will like... you will end up miserable on the inside.


I had a light-bulb moment last night after reading this and thinking about our introvert/extrovert personalities.

For our entire 8 years together, she was always a mon-fri, 9-5 worker. For 7 of those years, I worked a much odder schedule - some nights, weekends, for a long time I was doing overnight shifts on Saturdays. This actually helped mask this difference. She could go out and have her social needs met, and not feel bad about leaving me behind, because I was at work. On the other side, I would get a couple days off during the week, while she was working, and this was my alone time to recharge my batteries and enjoy my own company, without feeling bad about it because she was at work. We both had this separate time to do what we wanted, and therefore made the most of the time during the week that we spent together.

In July 2012, I got a promotion, and moved to a mon-fri, 9-5 schedule. We were both excited about it because we would now get a lot more time together, entire weekends, etc. For a couple months it was great, and we were out and about all the time. After a while, it started to drain me. And I think we both started to feel guilty about it. Now if I wanted some time to myself, I couldn't get that without actively choosing myself over her or her social outings, and there was a lot of guilt that went with that. And if she wanted to go out on a Friday with a group of people and I simply wasn't feeling it, she was then forced to choose them or me, and I'm sure she felt crappy about that too.

There were other issues at play between us (the stress of my new job at the same time surely didn't help), but I think this personality clash only helped us grow apart faster. And I don't think either of us actually realized what was going on or why - I never put it together until just now, and I'm sure she hasn't thought about it at all.

Maybe that means we were fundamentally incompatible, but I'm sure there are plenty of happy married couples who have the same intro/extrovert difference. More likely, we should have recognized it, talked it out, and tried to reach some kind of compromise....instead we just ended up leading separate lives towards the end, and it's no surprise that an OM wormed his way into the marriage. I have to accept some fault in letting it get to that point, but then again, so does she.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Email from the PI this morning. Says he got plenty of evidence of PDA last night, and would go over more in detail tomorrow. Assume I'm going to get to look at some pictures and/or video - that's going to be tough.

Doesn't sound like he got evidence of them spending the night together though. STBX made it pretty clear that they were going to be crashing at his place, which is where I told the PI to stake out, but looking at FB this morning, I see photos of him and her at our apartment. Must have gone there instead.

Photos of him playing with our dog. Knowing they slept in our bed. It should be a kick in the gut, but instead it's a kick in the ass. I know I need to file now. It's probably going to cost me some more money to get the last piece of proof, PI will need to repeat this next weekend, but that's fine. It's funny, the worst pain was realizing how much I missed the dog...I've tried putting her "out of sight, out of mind" the last two months, but that picture brought it all back. Top priority once I have my new place - new dog.

I'm not going to sit around waiting a year for a no-fault filing. Right now she wants no alimony, because she's excited about her freedom, and actually said she's excited to struggle financially. I understand that sentiment - it'll be "fun" for a month or two. Then it won't be anymore. Then all I need is MIL, or one of her cheerleader friends planting a bug in her ear, and all hell will break loose. Nope. Getting out before that happens.

I see the pictures she's posted over the last couple days. I really don't find her that attractive anymore. Objectively, she's lost a ton of weight in recent months, and looks better than she ever has...but it doesn't really do anything for me. Had the same feeling sitting down at dinner last night. I just see her as a stranger, like that song "Somebody That I Used to Know."

I take that as a good sign, and I hope it continues. Meant to go to church this morning, but last night was a late one. Perks of single life I suppose - do (or don't do) whatever I want whenever I want. Kinda nice.


----------



## DumpedAgain (Feb 14, 2013)

No Alimony?.... Run for the Hills


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Another long post incoming.

PI tailed them Saturday, and got evidence of all the PDA I'll need. Haven't been sent any pics/video yet, which is fine...not looking forward to seeing it, really. He has yet to catch them spending the night somewhere together - it's the last piece of the puzzle I need, hopefully get it this week.

Met her at our apartment tonight, since she was already going to be there packing her things. She needed to give me rent money, and I was supposed to bring one of the two TV's I took when I moved out - I "forgot" to bring it of course. I plan on holding onto it until I get all the rent money from her that I'm owed.

I get there, and she's in the bedroom, crying. I ask her what's wrong, but I made no move to comfort her or console her. She tells me she had started to sort through photos of us to pack up, and everything had started to catch up with her. I left all those photos there when I moved (because if she's truly done, why would I want them?). In her haste to run away at full-speed, she hadn't made any effort to come back and pack up anything, but I knew when she did, it wouldn't be easy.

She still remained adamant that she was doing the right thing, but cried about all the friends and family (my family) that she's lost. How she's hurt me. How her life is suddenly so different now - not bad, but different. Of course it is - after the smoke clears from her wreckage, the only circle of friends she really has left are her boyfriend and his friends. I told her that I could understand that being overwhelming, and left it at that. After she calmed down, we grabbed a quick bite to eat, I pried some info out of her about her weekend plans, helped her pack for a little bit, and then left.

In another thread, NSweet posted a nice checklists of red flags for a "crazy" partner.



> -You met her and had "instant intimacy" from the very start.
> -You would describe your relationship as face paced and a "whirlwind" or romance.
> -You had the best sex of your life as much as you wanted for the first couple months.
> -You were pressured to meet her family, her friends, and her relatives within 90 days of commitment.
> ...


It struck a chord with me when I saw it yesterday. Because me and her matched a lot of these - especially at the beginning of our relationship. Immediate intimacy, whirlwind, meeting parents, talk about marriage/kids way too early, etc. Like I said from the start, we had dated some in high school, been friends throughout...in my mind she was always "the one who got away", so when she came back around, I was already in love, and we hit all of those red flags. Some of the items in the middle and the end fit as well. 

As I've also found out through various sources, she's going down the same path with her boyfriend. Immediate intimacy/whirwind...at the beginning of this month, she told him she loved him. Before they were even official. He didn't say it back, because he has common sense, but she doesn't regret saying it, because "life's too short not to say how you feel." She's already dragged him to met her family. It's like watching me and her all over again. At this point I don't know if this guy is actually getting reeled in by this, or if he knows she's vulnerable and using her for the "great sex" part of the list. Not that it's my problem either way.

After seeing this so clearly, I'm conflicted as to how I feel about it.

On one hand...I married "crazy", as NSweet put it. It's a bit of a relief. I had my faults and shortcomings, but her own problems are so much bigger than mine, that we eventually would have ended up here even if I had been a flawless husband. I can't fix her, I'm just going to work on myself. And her problems are now the new guy's..and then the next guy's...and then the next guy's...

And on the other hand...I see now that this relationship is doomed. Either she will end up sabotaging it by moving way too fast when he's apparently not reciprocating, or he is using her, and he'll get tired of it and move on. Or it'll just fall apart after the honeymoon phase like most rebounds do. Either way, once it breaks, she'll be left down in the dumps with virtually no friends, and no guy to latch onto. Her greener grass will end up being mud. And all of a sudden, all the decisions she's made that she "knew" were right, she'll suddenly be a little unsure of.

And if/when that happens, (2x4 time), I'm not sure I've totally shut the door on the idea of R. It would have to be a very slow process - total opposite of our original courtship. And if at any point she was impatient or offended about that, she could hit the bricks. I'd need to see real changes from her, and now I would know what those are. She would need some IC of her own. In reality it would be more likely to fail than succeed - but right now I'd be lying to myself if I said I wouldn't at least try. Then again, let's see how I feel 3 months, 6 months down the road, or whenever her bubble bursts.

That also makes me unsure about filing now. I'm still going to have the PI follow this through, and have it in my back pocket if she changes her mind on alimony or anything else. But I don't know if filing ASAP nets me anything positive. I think I may be better served just totally detaching from her for a good 2-4 months. No contact at all. Work on myself while she plays out her fantasy. See where it goes. Like I said, by that time I may be totally done myself, and not interested in R. But until that time, I can't slam the door shut until I'm really ready to do so.

And it seems like I need that few months of NC for myself, as well. It seems like every time I spend an evening with her, I only wind up in a fog of my own. I can't do that to myself anymore.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

She's really good looking, right?

How old is she?


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Conrad said:


> She's really good looking, right?
> 
> How old is she?


Yeah she is. Again she's dropped a lot of weight in recent months, so she hasn't looked better since we first got together.

We're both 25. I know, I'm young, I've got my whole life ahead of me, I should just run for the hills and move on. I know that, and I still can't do it yet.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

So I forgot to mention that when we met up last week, I broke away for a minute to retrieve a VAR from her car. I had put it in there way back early on in the separation, trying to prove the affair between her and OM1. I had forgotten all about it until now, but wanted to grab it before she found it and assumed I had planted it more recently. I got home that night and threw it on the dresser and forgot about it - figured there was nothing in there I needed to hear now. But then, against better judgement, I listened to it yesterday. A lot of it was conversation between her and OM2, and it's amazing to me what a WAW will say or lie about to make themselves feel better.

First, some quick backstory. Early on in our marriage, we were flat damn broke. Like, borrowing $40 from her parents on a Tuesday, so we could eat until Friday and pay them back kind of broke. When we joined our finances, we both had a few credit cards - small, store cards mostly, all limits of $500-$800. They were all maxed, and most months I simply couldn't keep up with them all. Some of it was naivety, struggles of two people learning to budget together. A lot of it was simply not having funds. Both of our credit ratings took a huge hit. Eventually I liquidated my 401k at work, got a few grand, and finally cleared it all out, then started a new 401k.

How she spins this? She thinks I intentionally ignored those cards, and intentionally sabotaged her credit. Part of my "control" over her, keeping her from leaving by making her financially unable to leave. Of course her boyfriend agreed wholeheartedly. It's revisionist history to a degree I can't even comprehend.

And even better - she's just a flat out liar. She talked to him about how after she left, her first order of business was fixing her credit. So she immediately signed up for a credit monitoring service (experian) to keep tabs on things. Her boyfriend commended her on her responsibility, and taking back control of her financial situation. I actually laughed out loud while I was listening. I signed us both up for that service years ago, after clearing our debts, so that I could monitor and work on rebuilding both of our credit scores. She totally forgot it existed at all until we were splitting up our finances, and I reminded her that she needed to cancel it or change the billing info to her new account. 

From 50k, I hear this and I realize that this is why the 180 is the only possible tact to take with walk-aways. If they're going to allow themselves to believe this kind of crap, how can you possibly try to talk to them or reason with them about your relationship? It's impossible. Or maybe my STBX is just even crazier than most. The articles on shrink4men come to mind while I write this.

There was a lot of sex talk between her and boyfriend as well. All the things I complained about a page or two ago, that she never did (initiating it, oral, etc) - a total 180 with this guy. Conrad is 100% right. You think your WAW has a low sex drive, but in reality it's just low with _you_. That's crystal clear now as well. It's also another checkmark on NSweet's "crazy" checklist.

And of course, a couple days from now, I'm sure she'll bat her eyes and become my sweet old wife again, asking me for help doing this or that. Before yesterday, I would have wanted to accommodate, and avoid reinforcing the image in her head of me as the bad guy. But now? ****, I don't think I even care if the 180 works on her or not. I don't think R is something I would even want to pursue. I'm seeing my wife for what she is now - forget what she was, or what I thought she was, that doesn't matter. "I still want to be friends though." Yeah, right.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Knowledge is power

Congrats on staying @50,000 feet through this and not blowing a gasket.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Knowledge is power
> 
> Congrats on staying @50,000 feet through this and not blowing a gasket.


Initially it was hard to swallow the urge to call her out on this BS right away, but what good would it do? And not to mention getting myself in more hot water over the VAR.

Another "he was such a monster" story from the VAR. In September we took a day trip to Philly. Walking around the city, her shoe broke. We hopped a cab to Macy's to get her a replacement pair. Money was a little tight at the time, so I implored her to just get something cheap and decent looking that would last the rest of the day. Suddenly, she realizes she "needs" new shoes anyway, and is looking at $70-80+ pairs. After I kept insisting, she finally settled on a $30 pair of flats, but it ruined her mood for the rest of the day. Just another example given to her new boy about how I was controlling and frugal.

I could argue about this, and her compulsive over-spending in general, but I don't want the victim chair. She's firmly entrenched in that seat, and she can have it.

It's all my fault that she has terrible credit. It's all my fault that she's lost a lot of friends after I exposed her affair. It's all my fault she's broke right now because I'm "demanding" that she contribute rent to the place we both signed a lease on. It's all my fault. And now she has a new knight in shining armor to rescue her, until everything becomes his fault.

And yet tomorrow or Tuesday, she'll be tugging on my string again. Looking for something. Haven't heard from her since Tuesday, but the last couple weeks she's been up my ass about getting one of the two TVs I took from our place, so I'm sure I'll hear something about wanting to meet up this week to get it. Don't feel like it. I'm busy. Or just ignore her entirely. She got pretty upset the last time she said jump and I didn't say how high. Sure she will again. Tough.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You teach people how to treat you.

Ignore her.


----------



## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

My ex wanted the lets be friend thing too, don't go down that road. The limited confession was for her benefit not yours, it is to ease her conscience. She then can say to all see we just weren't made for each other, but we will always be friends. Not many women want to be with a guy who has an exgirlfriend in the background much less an exwife. Naturally you can choose to be friends with whomever you desire, but I usually don't choose to be close friends with people who lie and cheat on me. 

I do know people that have very amicable relationships and do well with child exchange, support, events, etc. However all successful case I know is where the couple divorced, settled their issues and moved on to new relationships. This way the new relationships aren't causes for the separation. In my case when the money and handyman services went away, so did the friendship. I haven't the vaguest idea where she is, what she is doing, I'm not mad, sad, nothing. She is just part of my past and I have learned from the relationship and moved on with my life.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Of course you're right VFW. I've heard/seen stories of the couples who decided they weren't right for each other, split amicably, and remained close friends afterwards. Initially, I wanted that really badly. Even if we weren't destined to remain husband and wife, I could have at least settled for best friends.

But, once you factor in everything - the lies, cheating, trashing me behind my back. Why bother? When I first confronted her about the trash talk, she gave me some bull about how she had lost herself for a while, and that wasn't her, and that wasn't what she really thought of me, and she was so sorry. Well, now I can see that it's still going on.

So either she truly believes that kind of crap about me (that I intentionally tanked her credit to "keep her prisoner", etc)...in which case, why does she have any interest in being friends? Just dangling me along to get more out of me and keep me on a string until the D is final? Easing guilt? Or is she deliberately lying and distorting the past so that she can manipulate her new boyfriend into a rescuer, so that he'll give her the moon? Or maybe a little bit of both.

I'll probably never know. I don't even care enough to try to over-analyze it. All I know is that whatever the reason for her whitewashing, it's not a quality I would want in a friend.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Strange morning. Woke up in a funk, couldn't pull myself out of bed. A voice in my head saying that whatever happened today, none of it was going to make me happy. Why bother? Just a huge weight on my chest. I felt like I had backslid the whole way back to the day she left, and I couldn't figure out why. Without even really thinking too hard about it, in my head I said "You have no idea what today will bring. Make yourself happy." And that's all it took.

I've had an extra bounce in my step all morning. A renewed energy that I haven't felt in...jeez, months. I feel _good_. She hasn't been dominating my thoughts anymore, been that way for a few days now. And when I do think about her, I see her faults and flaws as clearly as I remember the good qualities. She's off the pedestal. Just a girl. I still idolize the woman I fell in love with and married, but I also recognize that she's gone, and possibly never existed at all. A memory, nothing more.

Got to work, logged onto Verizon first thing, and blocked her number. I don't need to hear from her. She still owes me money towards our apartment, she can mail me the check. Otherwise, there's no need for communication. She's not getting any more property from me, no more concessions, no more help setting up her online bill pay, or her wireless internet, or her computer. I don't care what she thinks about that. I don't care what she thinks about me, or how she decides to skew the last 8 years. I don't care if she ever "wakes up" one day and regrets this. I'm cutting the strings. Detached. I'm not even reacting out of anger anymore - I just feel totally indifferent. 

Hoping to hear from the PI today. I want to file asap, and be done with this. Gonna try to do it without a lawyer - no kids, no property to divide, and she's far too destitute right now to hire her own counsel.

Now I have to take the focus off of her, and back onto me. I've been saying that, haven't been doing it. I truly feel ready to do it now. I want to find out who I am. Never been truly on my own before - I went from under my parents roof, to under her parents roof for a short time, to our own place. I'm looking forward to single life. It's scary and exciting at the same time.

Hmm...wish I could edit thread titles without needing to start a new one. "Can't get over her" just doesn't seem to apply anymore. Because I can - and I am.

I do miss the dog though. Think I'm more upset about that loss than anything else at this point, as strange as it sounds.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The dog was loyal.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Sounds great, maybe a bit premature. There will be relapses. Steady as she goes..


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

staystrong said:


> Sounds great, maybe a bit premature. There will be relapses. Steady as she goes..


Very possible. Probable even. That said, I know that betrayed/left-behind spouses are in a fog of their own while trying to cope with the loss. I feel like that's what is starting to lift for me. Working towards curing my own case of "one-itis", if you will.

The posts by NSweet, and articles on shrink4men have helped immensely as well. Regarding that list of "crazy" traits - I've checked off several that applied to me and her, and just from what little I've seen/heard of her and her boyfriend, I can check off a lot of the same ones again already. Same cycle, new guy. Hope he's not the doormat I was.

Not to say I don't have my own faults to examine and correct. I can look back and acknowledge things I could have done better, arguments and moments where I should have reacted differently. It would be far too easy to simply chalk this all up to "picking a bad apple", and absolve myself of any blame. I'd rather not move on and end up making all of the same mistakes again. That's what I need to continue working on now.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

X: So about the rent I owe you, I'm still going to be able to give you a check for $300 when I get paid next week. But the other $300 for the end of the month will have to wait until mid-April. I just don't have it.

Me: I'm not okay with that. Our arrangement was for $600 by the end of March. 

X: OK. Just so you understand, I _can_ give you $300 next week.

Me: I understand that.

X: I just can't give you the other $300 until April.

Me: I'm not okay with that.

X: Fine. If you're not willing to work with me on this, I guess I can borrow the money from [brother-in-law] and give you the whole $600 next week.

Me: Sounds good. Thanks.


Man, that _does_ feel good. Nevermind that I've been pushed around since initially asking her for half the rent for the place she abandoned - got talked down to 1/3....then got talked down from a lump payment to two payments...then to three. But as soon as I'm firm, I'm refusing to work with her.

Honestly she could have just called my bluff, not like I was going to take her to small claims or something at the end of the month if she didn't pay. Amazing how she can suddenly come up with all the money, though. I suppose she was content to let me sit on the backburner while she furnishes her new place, goes out with the boyfriend, etc. I'm not okay with that.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Doesn't it?! I'm proud of you. 

When I dished out my first one - I ran on a natural high for 2 days. No more putting up w/ things that you are Not Ok with. Read up on Conrad's #3.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Doesn't it?! I'm proud of you.
> 
> When I dished out my first one - I ran on a natural high for 2 days. No more putting up w/ things that you are Not Ok with. Read up on Conrad's #3.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks. I did see that list in BFGuru's thread the other day. #3 spoke to me loud and clear - not just in my marriage, but in life overall. Way too much of a doormat.

I know this, because even while on the high of finally saying "not okay", I'm still a little disheartened. Because I know she's immediately running to MIL, BIL, and anyone else that'll listen, giving them half a story about how unreasonable I'm suddenly being. And since none of them are used to seeing me set boundaries either, I'm sure their reaction will be the same mix of anger/disappointment. 

I know I shouldn't give two damns about their opinions. As much as I like my in-laws, of course I know that my relationship with them is over as soon as my relationship with X is over. And even if that wasn't the case, I still shouldn't care. It just shows me that I still have a long way to go.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

As expected - BIL speaks up last night. Why can't you be amicable about everything? Why are you giving her such a hard time?

Sigh. I haven't responded yet. Not sure if I should even bother.

I'm getting pissed, because this has been 9 weeks of separation now, and for every day up until yesterday, all I did was roll over. Stay out of her way, jump when she said to, give her whatever property/possessions she decided she wanted. Offered to help her pay for things she couldn't afford on her own - like the taxes she now owes because she wanted to file separately. And now, after putting up a single boundary, I'm the bad guy.

I'm pissed at myself for doing any of this in the first place, already knowing what she was saying about me behind my back, what she was doing behind my back. I know now that I was doing it to try to win her over. Not sure if I was trying to win her back as a wife, or a friend, but I know I was doing it all to heighten her opinion of me and keep her happy at my own expense. #3s.

The things being said, things I'm accused of now are just so far beyond the pale. I shouldn't care, but I can't help it. I deliberately ruined her credit to keep her trapped. Apparently I have a secret savings account that I've been funneling our money into for years (this one is just funny - if it exists, I'd love to know, apparently I did that in my sleep). I'm demanding rent money now, while she's broke, because I want her to be miserable. Ugh. 

It's as if she knows she can't claim she was physically abused (no one would believe that), or emotionally abused (no one would believe that either), so she'll go the route of financial abuse. And I don't know if she's saying these things to garner sympathy and support, or if she's convinced herself they're true to ease her own guilt. Not that it matters either way. It's not okay.

And now I find myself painted into a corner where I can't win.

Door #1: I continue to wait out our mandatory one-year separation, having **** slung at my back. Have her run around with her boyfriend, while I try to move on with a boat anchor around my neck. Do this for the next nine months, and pray that she doesn't wake up one day and decide she wants alimony, or access to my retirement accounts, or whatever else she's legally entitled to. Or worse, she gets knocked up by this guy, and I find myself in a potential legal nightmare of support claims and paternity tests.

Door #2: I take my proof of adultery, and file now - not to tar and feather her, but because it's the only way in my state to circumvent the 12-month separation, and allows me to cut the anchor and move on faster. But of course no one will see it that way, and I'll cement my reputation as the monster. 

Of course, the correct answer is whatever I want, and opinions be damned. I'm not sure what this is yet, though. And though I still lean to door #2, I'm not sure why I'm not sure lol (still trying to make her happy? worried about my own reputation or what others think? both?). Some meditation is needed.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Stay @50,000 feet.

When you're ready, blast through Door #2.

Anything else will make you hate yourself.

And, if you don't believe me?

Imagine meeting an attractive chatty female who has the hots for you within the next 3-6 months.

She finds out you're still married?

"I'm not ok with dating married people"

Take care of you.

Don't let something like this happen - and lower your opinion of yourself further.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

> Imagine meeting an attractive chatty female who has the hots for you within the next 3-6 months.
> 
> She finds out you're still married?
> 
> "I'm not ok with dating married people"


Wow. I never even thought of this from the angle of the "next one". You're right, that would suck....and the thought of "well at least I didn't piss off my x or her family" will be of no consolation. Downright silly, really.

Door #2. When I'm ready.


----------



## westbank23 (Mar 8, 2013)

Man if you have a smart phone go visit some of these dateing sites pof.com,skout,letsdate.com etc..
What you need to do is replace her with someone else that will help get your mind off her..I'm always picking up chicks on there,of course I let my intetions be known and tell them I don't want a reltionship but there's a bunch of sweat lonly girls on there looking for a man
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

More nuggets from the mind of a WAW. Aside from me purposefully ruining her credit to "trap" her, and maintaining a secret bank account, of course. I still have a couple friends inside her circle who aren't buying the **** she's shoveling - so maybe this kind of vitriol is common of a WAW, and I just have a unique pipeline to it that most left-behinds don't. Or maybe my STBX is a special kind of crazy.

- In regards to not being affectionate enough (which was admittedly a flaw on my part). She would talk to me about it, and I would argue back that her (now deceased) father "ruined" her, and "set her expectations too high" in the way he treated her and her mother. WTF? It's such an amazingly creative lie, I'm flabbergasted. It's telling that, from all appearances, she's only spreading this manure around recent friends who only came into her life near the end of the marriage, or shortly after leaving. She wouldn't dare pull this sob story on anyone who was around to observe the entire 8 years, and saw how close me and her father were, because they would undoubtedly call BS on it.

- She hosted a game night for her friends over the weekend, at her new place. Couldn't find her copy of Taboo that we had. Immediate assumption was that "the a-hole" took it when I moved out, because I knew it was her favorite, and I'm such a spiteful/petty person that it's just something I would do. Even went as far as to email me about it that night asking me why I took it (which made no sense at the time, but now does). Of course, wouldn't you know, she found it buried in the trunk of her car a couple days later. No apology though. I'm sure this pattern will continue with anything else she can't find while unpacking.

- She's head over heels in love with her boyfriend, and "has never felt this way about anyone before." She's getting anxious now because he hasn't said it back yet (after only 5 weeks!), and she's upset that she "threw the word around for 8 years and never meant it", and now that she really does mean it, she won't hear it back. Gag. That poor guy, I feel for him. Okay, not really. But he has no idea what he's getting into. Apparently he's never had a real relationship of his own, even at 28. I was more of less the same way when me and STBX got together. It's uncanny how she can single out the naive guys who can't see the red flags, and don't know any better.

- My fault she owes money to the IRS, even thought it was her idea and initiative to file separately. I would have been perfectly happy to file jointly and split the refund 50/50, and told her so.


I think there was more, but I'm having trouble remembering it all right now. From 50k, the cognitive dissonance is astounding. One the one hand, I'm a total monster with no redeeming qualities, who did all these terrible things to her, and she never loved me at all. Then on the other, she's adamant about keeping one foot in the door and staying friends, was adamant about taking all of the wedding photos/memorabilia because she "didn't want to lose her memories", and in general continues to tell me that she's scared to death that her leaving will result in me resenting/hating her.

As angry as all of this is making me, I'm glad I'm hearing it. It's making it that much easier to move on, because it becomes harder every day to remember what I ever saw in this woman. And I sure as hell see no reason to want to go back. Hardest thing right now is swallowing it down and not putting her on blast tonight. I will after the D is final. I can only imagine what will be said about me when she's served.

Ugh. Yes, too much focus on her tonight. But I had to write this down somewhere, lest I throw it all into an email and do something I'll regret tomorrow.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You selfish prick! How could you have taken her Taboo?

And, sicking the IRS on her earns you a special place in hell.

Have I ever shared this link with you?

http://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

I guess I should consider myself lucky - when there's no kids to worry about, no house to fight over...you can have arguments over stupid **** like who took the $20 board game. 

Thanks for the link. I've heard a lot about the victim triangle on TAM, but never actually saw an explanation of it. I know I'm in the triangle just as much as she is, so I'm sure this is a much-needed read.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

rsersen said:


> I guess I should consider myself lucky - when there's no kids to worry about, no house to fight over...you can have arguments over stupid **** like who took the $20 board game.
> 
> Thanks for the link. I've heard a lot about the victim triangle on TAM, but never actually saw an explanation of it. I know I'm in the triangle just as much as she is, so I'm sure this is a much-needed read.


Move to the center.

Reflect it back to her.

Do not engage.

Make her own her chaos.

It's the road to health.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

PI is finally finished. Meet with lawyer tomorrow to go over evidence, and provided it's sufficient, begin the process of filing.

No contact with STBX in a week or so now, since the exchange about rent owed to me. I've only been hearing things said about me through the grapevine since then.

I'm sure getting served will change that. Logically, she should see the papers as a relief, that we can get avoid the year-long waiting period and both get what we want faster. But since she doesn't consider anything she's done as adultery, having to face that will not be a pleasant experience for her.

I expect I'll be facing hurricane posW when she gets the papers - and probably some smaller storms from her family and friends. The test for me is to stay centered, and c/f/d. I intend to pass that test.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Retained my lawyer today. Originally wasn't even going to go with counsel, toyed with the idea of doing this myself. But the last thing I want is to drag her to court, only to fail because I wasn't properly prepared. I've come this far, might as well shell out a little bit more to make sure it's done right.

Attorney plans on filing early next week. For some reason I assumed it would take longer - then again, it's a clear cut case, and there's no children/property/finances to split, so I guess it makes sense. 

Filling out the intake forms tonight, listing property, debts, misconduct, etc....and it suddenly all became way too real for me. I know this is what I have to do, and at this point, it's what I _want_ to do...but it's still never what I wanted. If that makes sense. I wish we hadn't gotten to this point. I wish the woman I married was still alive. Took a long walk to clear my head, and then finished the paperwork.

Spoke to BIL very briefly today (obviously did not tip him off to anything upcoming). Turns out there has been a family crisis in the past couple days, and my wife's sister and husband have a drug addiction, and have had their two young children taken away. SIL lives halfway across the country, and hadn't been in touch with my wife in months (don't believe SIL was even aware we had split). But no one had any idea how bad things were until SIL's mother-in-law finally reached out to wife and BIL a couple days ago.

Really saddened to hear that, as I'd always considered myself pretty close with them (as with the rest of wife's family). I'm sure my wife is beside herself. And it's terrible timing - because in the midst of this crisis, here come the D papers. I know I'll look like a total heel...and maybe it _is_ a ****ty thing to do. I wonder if I should have the lawyer hold off for a little while, let this storm pass first. I don't know. But then I remember that as upset as my wife must be, it's not my shoulder she's crying on right now, it's pos boyfriend's. That was her choice. So I'll keep moving forward. The sooner this is all over, the better.


----------



## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

No #3's. Keep moving forward my brother - not your problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

you the man rsersen. my . D only took 3 weeks and had a kid involved. wife didnt have money to fight. she went to my lawyer signed papers (50/50 custody no child support)


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Walk it home, buddy.

And remember: "You deserved better."


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks guys.

Terrence, I hope mine moves as fast as yours. File this week, and hopefully get a court date sooner rather than later. I know she can't afford to hire a lawyer, and I'd say it's 50/50 as to whether she'll even bother to respond or show up, since I'm not asking for anything from her. I've been hitting the gym extra hard under the assumption that she does though. I intend to look as good as possible for what will most likely be the last time she ever sees me. 

I'm somewhat interested to see what the reaction is when she gets the papers. Logically, she should be relieved that we don't have to wait the full year, that I've taken the initiative, and she can get what she wants quicker. Not saying I'm expecting her to thank me, but if she looks at it rationally, there should be no venom other than the grounds I'm pursuing (and hey, I'm just calling a spade a spade).

But I have a feeling it won't go down that way. My STBX is a very religious woman, and she's done a lot of mental jumping jacks to convince herself that she is not committing adultery (including already referring to me as her ex-husband, talking about the marriage in the past tense, etc). So when the papers come and the legal system tells her "yes, you are committing what you consider to be a mortal sin", she'll have to deal with that. And her coping mechanism will probably be what has been the trend lately - lashing out at me. Probably not angry enough to get funds from family/friends, hire a lawyer of her own, and come after me for the kitchen sink...but I'm prepared for that possibility as well.

Strangely, I'm excited to get this done. I feel I've come a long way since post #1, but I know I need to cut the anchor before I can truly move on. 



> And remember: "You deserved better."


Damn right. So do you. Hope you're doing well SS.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LOL What is her religion? Good bet it has a self made dogma. You are doing the right thing. I was in the same boat as you recently, no kids...but I'm quite a bit older. You are at the age I was when she and I met so yeah, you got the world ahead of you.

How can she get alimony? Both of you work. That was set up for SAHMs who were raising four children and was deserted by husband. Retirement? WTF? Why would she get any of it....she is barely of legal drinking age. But then again, your state has a year wait for no-faults. Funny the government decides when you are married and how long before you are divorced. May be main reason it is in the mess it is.

Keep in mind....no reason is valid for cheating. Any "Godly" person would get divorced first (as per religion, whole new can of worms) or work things out. Any moral person would too. She is a gutless princess. 

Was not aware of your new post.....wondered what happened to ya.


----------



## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

rsersen said:


> But I have a feeling it won't go down that way.


Of course it won't. Anyone who feels under attack - and especially someone who knows deep down that they have done wrong - will defend themselves, lash out, rationalise and justify. Be prepared for all of that, and be prepared for that to happen with an intensity and a changeability (furious one minute, pleading the next) that will take your breath away. 

Best just not to react yourself - if you do you will only feed it.

Good Luck


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

rsersen said:


> Spoke to BIL very briefly today (obviously did not tip him off to anything upcoming). Turns out there has been a family crisis in the past couple days, and my wife's sister and husband have a drug addiction, and have had their two young children taken away. SIL lives halfway across the country, and hadn't been in touch with my wife in months (don't believe SIL was even aware we had split). But no one had any idea how bad things were until SIL's mother-in-law finally reached out to wife and BIL a couple days ago.
> 
> Really saddened to hear that, as I'd always considered myself pretty close with them (as with the rest of wife's family). I'm sure my wife is beside herself. And it's terrible timing - because in the midst of this crisis, here come the D papers. I know I'll look like a total heel...and maybe it _is_ a ****ty thing to do.


I responded to this portion for two reasons.

AGAIN... we see a "close" relationship with in-laws is a mirage.

When push comes to shove? 99% of the time, they line-up right behind the cheater.

The second part? That YOU will look like a heel for dropping divorce papers on someone who decided to start banging posOM while married to you?

Get yourself to 50,000 feet and read that sentence aloud.

Tell me what you think of it.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

> How can she get alimony? Both of you work. That was set up for SAHMs who were raising four children and was deserted by husband. Retirement? WTF? Why would she get any of it....she is barely of legal drinking age. But then again, your state has a year wait for no-faults. Funny the government decides when you are married and how long before you are divorced. May be main reason it is in the mess it is.


I'd agree that it's probably a long shot that she would get any kind of support. Of the lawyers I consulted, a couple said no way, no how, while a couple warned that she may have a case to make if she chose to pursue it. Granted, those lawyers may have been trying to scare me into retaining them on the spot, but I'd rather not wait to find out.

And yes, the year waiting period is just dumb. I understand that some kind of wait is needed (otherwise you'd have couples marching down to the courthouse for a D after every big argument), but 12 months? Honestly, by 3-6 months of separation, most people will know if reconciliation is possible or not.



> The second part? That YOU will look like a heel for dropping divorce papers on someone who decided to start banging posOM while married to you?
> 
> Get yourself to 50,000 feet and read that sentence aloud.
> 
> Tell me what you think of it.


Point taken. If she doesn't like the grounds, she shouldn't have jumped in the sack with the first guy who showed her some attention. Boy am I glad you're back.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

In TN, it is 60 days w/o child, 90 with. I think in GA w/o child is 30. Buy vacant lot in Gooberville, GA and both of you sign for it. Then take her to GA LOL....month n done.

I can't say too much.....my parents were married in '66, divorced in 30 days (I am not kidding), and re-married in '68.


----------



## Hanging on for hope (Mar 18, 2013)

My story is so eerily similar to yours. Wife seemed completely happy for 8 years. One month ago she starts at the gym, meets a new guy, and BAM, she's been miserable for a long time. She also has no issues in her mind. 

Stay strong and know that alot of us are riding this same rollercoaster together.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Stay strong Rsersen

I'm the one dragging feet on our divorce. I know it's gotta be done, I just don't make it a priority. I'm having a hard time accepting the reality of it all, too.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> In TN, it is 60 days w/o child, 90 with. I think in GA w/o child is 30. Buy vacant lot in Gooberville, GA and both of you sign for it. Then take her to GA LOL....month n done.
> 
> I can't say too much.....my parents were married in '66, divorced in 30 days (I am not kidding), and re-married in '68.


What do they charge for a vacant lot in Gooberville?


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

staystrong said:


> Stay strong Rsersen
> 
> I'm the one dragging feet on our divorce. I know it's gotta be done, I just don't make it a priority. I'm having a hard time accepting the reality of it all, too.


Thanks SS. I was kind of debating whether to move forward, or drag my feet and let her do it a year from now, but Conrad brought up a good point on the last page.



> Imagine meeting an attractive chatty female who has the hots for you within the next 3-6 months.
> 
> She finds out you're still married?
> 
> ...


It was a perspective I hadn't thought about before. I don't feel like I'm ready to date at this moment, but a few months from now, who knows...and I'd hate to squander a potential good opportunity because I was dragging my feet. Might be something for you to think about as well.

It still bugs me that this is what _she_ wanted, and I'm the one paying for it, doing all the legwork, while she can just spend all of her time with posBF and not have to lift a finger. But if the alternative is to wait around out of spite and make her file a year from now...well, that's not really an option at all.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

rsersen said:


> Thanks SS. I was kind of debating whether to move forward, or drag my feet and let her do it a year from now, but Conrad brought up a good point on the last page.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can tell you, had my wife been banging posOM, we'd have had a different outcome.


----------



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I can tell you, had my wife been banging posOM, we'd have had a different outcome.


Meaning it's a deal-breaker for you?

But you don't have kids w/ her ... makes all the diff


----------



## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

rsersen,
You are making sound choices, trust youself, full speed ahead, I'm glad to see you know where you are going.

I think you are gonna be better than fine!

Take care!


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Finished NMMNG last night. Stopped by the attorney's this morning and signed the paperwork. Will be filed by the end of the day.

And it's the first day of spring. Fitting, I think. A day that marks rebirth and new beginnings, after the long darkness of winter. And it was quite a dark winter.

Yet even as the seasons change, mother nature can wreak havoc. So I will enjoy today, and then I will gather the sandbags, board up the windows, and prepare to wait out the storm that is most certainly coming.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

RS-Long cold winter here too....and I live in the South. Really glad to see you focused. Enjoy the spring....watch Jeter collect the hits. The older you get, the faster the springs pass by. But Pink Floyd warned me about that.


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> watch Jeter collect the hits.


As an O's fan...

"I'm not okay with that."


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

LMAO......... don't say you want the old Earl Weaver days back! Four 20-game winners in one year....shhh was before your time....and mine too. The O's have a nice team.....the BoSox are down as are Yanks. With expanded playoffs....you may be rooting for the O's in October. If so be sure and post picks of you celebrating their triumph


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh yes, that was far before my time. Let's put it this way - the last time I watched the O's in the playoffs (not counting this past season), I was 10 years old! Hell, looking it up now, Earl was retired before I was even born lol.

As for this year, I'm trying not to let last year's magic go to my head. Give me another year above 500 and in contention for the playoffs, and I'll be happy. Although obviously I'll be hoping for much more!


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Whew. Rough night tonight, seemingly out of nowhere. Finding myself trapped in my thoughts, the what-ifs, things I could/should have done differently. I try to break the cycle and just can't do it. Even March Madness is proving to be a poor distraction.

Part of it is the ego hit of being replaced so easily. I'm not sure if STBX is truly in love with the bf, or if it's just the intense infatuation of a rebound. I don't think it really matters - the point is that she's able to feel this way about someone else so quickly after leaving. It really stings. Logically, I know this is a reflection on her - right or wrong - and not on me. But it's hard to shake the feeling of "you were nothing special."

Another part of it is the fear - that I won't find someone like her again (how she was I mean, not now). Wondering if I really just blew it. Again, logically, I know I'm young, and of course I'll be just fine. Still, hard to shake.

Coupled with this is the fact that I just started on meds yesterday. I'm pretty sure it's far too soon to be experiencing any affects, positive or negative, and that this bad night is just a low point on the coaster. Still, something to keep an eye on I suppose.

So I'll let tonight pass, watch my bracket get busted up a little more, and go to bed. Tomorrow will be better.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

If your focus is on her, it's in the wrong place


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Two steps forward, one step back....we all do that.

Go to EBay and start collecting Cal Ripken cards

I'm sure there are 150,000 out there


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Been awhile. Filed a couple weeks ago, she was served shortly thereafter. And it went over about as well as I would have expected.

She has firmly welded herself into the victim chair, ramping up the woe-is-me tales and the accusations against me. Despite the fact that I am literally asking for nothing in my complaint (other than the dissolution of the marriage), she has retained her own attorney, and is requesting I pay for it. If I don't settle, then she will counter-file under "cruel treatment" and come after everything she can (retirement, possibly alimony, etc). 

I'm ****ing livid. Now my options are to either pay _her_ to go prove adultery. Or go into court fighting for everything - where I know the odds will already be stacked against me from the start, and she can turn on the tears and spin her sob stories, and leave it up to me to disprove and defend. 

All she had to do was...well, nothing. She could have simply let her 30 day response time run out, I could have moved forward without her, gotten the divorce finished, without costing her a cent. It's what she wanted, after all. She was perfectly content to go after nothing, wait a year, and file herself. Now all of a sudden she wants a fight? Then so be it. I will not settle, and I bet she'll run out of money before I do.

Just so angry. I've been doing so much better personally, almost totally detached to the point of not even having the time or inclination to check in on TAM. And now that I'm so close to being able to close this chapter, I find myself getting sucked into a bitter fight over...I don't even know what. No children, no major assets to speak of, and she'll still bankrupt both of us out of spite. ****.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

In a 4 year marriage? In the United States? When she's been unfaithful?

Stay the course.

Her hand is a loser.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I don't understand. What do you have to fight ? What is her ideal outcome ?

And does she work ?


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> I don't understand. What do you have to fight ? What is her ideal outcome ?
> 
> And does she work ?


She does work full time, has throughout our entire marriage. Granted I do make a little less than twice what she does. But she makes more than enough to live on her own. Between that, the short length of the marriage, and the circumstances surrounding the split, I feel confident that alimony won't happen. As for my retirement, I suppose she's entitled to half, and I don't mind that as much - only being 26, it's not as if we're talking about tens of thousands (assuming she would only get half of what I've acquired to this point, not going forward - have to check that I guess).

So, I'm not sure what her main goal here is. I think she views my filing as my way of sticking it to her, when that's truly not the case. Of course trying to explain this to her now would be a waste of time. So I guess by trying to bully me into paying for her counsel, it's her way of sticking me back.

I'm pretty sure it's a bluff myself, and I'm going to call it. There's just no way I'm going to pay for her lawyer so that I can prove adultery. I don't think she has the money to drag this out. If she wants to counter-file under "cruelty", let her sob to the judge that I didn't buy her flowers enough or take her out on enough dates.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Cruelty is very subjective

Calling her hand.... 5 star dude

Alimony was set up for SAHM's in the past

with four kids and no work skills

maybe her POSOM didn't work out

tough sh!t girl....welcome to reality


----------



## mainsqueeze (Apr 10, 2013)

Dude, I'm totally in a similar situation, although I have kids. Don't give in to your feelings for her. I know it's hard not to accept the attention she's trying to give you. Stay strong. I'm not saying don't work it out, but I'm saying keep your power and if she wants you bad enough, she will prove it somehow. Start to focus on yourself and your own interests. Start to move on this will either show her that you're changed and she'll really want you back, or you'll be on your way to a new life (whether you wanted a new one or not). I know how bad this sucks since I'm going through a similar thing. Hang in there, things will get better. Try to remember that who she talks to, hangs out with, calls, or whatever, doesn't matter anymore. My wife is constantly texting or chatting on facebook and I have to resist the urge to see who it is. I'm working on rebuilding the friendships that I've let go of over the years.

Good luck!


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> Cruelty is very subjective
> 
> Calling her hand.... 5 star dude
> 
> ...


The new exciting relationship with posOM didn't work out?

Say it ain't so!

They were "soulmates"


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is onto the 2nd guy after the original OM did not work out


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> She is onto the 2nd guy after the original OM did not work out


Correct. And as far as I know, they are still together. I think the original OM was just an exit affair to help her get out the door.

And Chuck, you are right that cruelty is a subjective term. Conrad's "War Stories" comes to mind. If that's the way she chooses to look back on things, that's sad, but there's nothing I can do to change it. And a lot of her criticisms are perfectly valid. 

Still, it irks me....I was not an exemplary husband, but I take exception to the idea that she endured any kind of "cruel treatment." Of course, me filing on grounds of adultery probably ruffled her feathers the same way - so I still believe this is nothing more than her way of counter-punching.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

rsersen said:


> Correct. And as far as I know, they are still together. I think the original OM was just an exit affair to help her get out the door.
> 
> And Chuck, you are right that cruelty is a subjective term. Conrad's "War Stories" comes to mind. If that's the way she chooses to look back on things, that's sad, but there's nothing I can do to change it. And a lot of her criticisms are perfectly valid.
> 
> Still, it irks me....I was not an exemplary husband, but I take exception to the idea that she endured any kind of "cruel treatment." Of course, me filing on grounds of adultery probably ruffled her feathers the same way - so I still believe this is nothing more than her way of counter-punching.


Except she actually did bang posOM.

That's objective truth.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Forgot that was her #2.... away from TAM a bit

if she moves on to #2.... no hope (for near future)

is she vengeful or having silent partner riling her up

but her Christian morals and being divorced on adultery

could ruffle anyone's feathers

It may all be a bluff to return you to no-fault D


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> is she vengeful or having silent partner riling her up


Not really her style to be vindictive (then again, never pegged her as a cheater either). OM could be egging her on - I'm sure that the angrier she gets at me, the better he makes himself look in comparison. I'm sure there are also some cheerleader friends pushing her to "fight back."

Of course it's also very possible that she simply has a shark of a lawyer who is sensing a way to drag a lot more money out of a case that _should_ be pretty cheap and quick.



> It may all be a bluff to return you to no-fault D


Probably. I'm sure she's wondering why I couldn't just be a good little doormat, and sit around for a year and wait for her to get around to filing. Unfortunately for her I'm done playing that part, and the genie is not going back in the bottle.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She obviously fvcked with the wrong dude! Hi 5!


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

update?


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> update?


Not much to report. On Friday her lawyer sent mine a letter asking me to cease and desist 'accessing her client's private information', 'exposing it on social media', etc. This is a single incident from back in late January, when I finally got enough text/email evidence to prove her affair with OM1, and exposed it via Facebook (a post that was visible only to a select few people I chose - our families and a few mutual friends). Probably not the smartest way to expose, but live and learn. The letter is dressed up in such a way as to make it seem like that kind of thing is still ongoing, which of course isn't true - maybe she thinks it is? Dunno.

I explained that to my lawyer, who brushed the letter away as a meaningless scare tactic. It also seems likely that this will be one of the cornerstones of her potential "cruel treatment" counter-assault. I had assumed that her examples of "cruelty" would have been from during the marriage, but it seems she'll focus on what has occurred post-separation. Which doesn't make much sense to me. Outside of my exposure of her affair, there's nothing there other than a couple angry emails that I probably shouldn't have sent (before I found TAM and the 180). But certainly no threats, very little name-calling, etc....just the emotional turmoil of a hurting man.

I still don't see anything from her to indicate that this is more than a bunch of hot air. Holding firm. I've told my lawyer that I have no intention of settling - she pays her lawyer, I pay mine, and we move forward with proving the adultery. If she won't agree to that, then I'm more than happy to fight it out. Waiting to hear back from her side now to see how amicable this will be.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Exposing her adulterous affair is "cruel treatment"?

I'm actually laughing out loud.

She thinks that's going to hold up?


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Holy Mary Mother of HEY WAIT


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Knowing her, she downplayed and omitted a lot of the facts around OM1 when talking to her lawyer, and sold this this story to her as me just being vindictive and trying to turn people against her. That could wind up being quite a big mistake on her part, but I wouldn't put it past her. Part of her rationalization process.

In her mind, OM1 wasn't an affair. And OM2 certainly isn't, because we're separated now (though not legally) and she can do what she wants. She's done nothing wrong, you see.

To this day she still maintains that her and OM1 never had sex. They simply made out at the bar when they were out together, exchanged thousands of deleted text messages, and hung out in private at his place for several hours at a time behind my back. And it's just a coincidence that she decided to leave only after I was sniffing too close and telling her I wanted her to stop talking to him. I didn't believe her then, I don't believe her now. Unfortunately she and I both know that I can't prove it - I can certainly prove a "more than friends" relationship (although the evidence is likely inadmissable), but I don't have any smoking gun to prove intercourse occured. 

Fortunately, I _can_ prove her and OM2, and she knows it. That's my focus, short and sweet. Her defense so far seems to be throwing everything she can at the wall and hoping something sticks.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

"cruel treatment"

any police reports?

no? ***c her then


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

filter funny lol


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> "cruel treatment"
> 
> any police reports?
> 
> no? ***c her then


No reports. I'm still scratching my head over this. Every definition I can find related to family law highlights cruelty as abuse:



> "Cruelty" may be physical or mental. If your spouse has engaged in "Excessively controlling behavior," isolated you from others, taunted you, or engaged in other behavior that has impaired your health or happiness, or that of your Child, you may have this as Ground for Absolute Divorce;


Certainly no abuse, or isolation, or taunting. She'd likely make the argument that I was financially controlling, but one look at some past bank statements showing her weekly shopping sprees will disprove that. I mean, what else is there? Will she really go in front of a judge and say that my lack of affection was cruelty? It's a court room, not a counseling session. 

I almost feel like her lawyer is taking her for a ride here. Advice from an honest attorney should have been more along the lines of: "you're sleeping with your boyfriend, right? he can prove it, right? you want out of the marriage, right? he's willing to pay his end and he's not asking for anything else, right? then let him do it."

EDIT: Some more googling and I find my exact situation in my own state:



> A wife who sought a divorce on grounds that her husband’s false public accusations of adultery against her constituted cruelty lost her case. The couple was Chinese, and the husband wrote a letter to his wife’s parents in Chinese characters, describing her inattention to marital duties, her desire to go out at night and quoting the Chinese philosopher Mencius that his wife “attracted attention like a branch of a tree over spreading a wall.”
> 
> The court said the husband’s letter might be an insinuation, but it was buried in metaphor and there was no evidence the wife suffered such serious injury from the letter that she could not continue the marriage and preserve her health, safety and self-respect.


http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/c...cle_14aa2a7c-35bb-11df-b887-001cc4c002e0.html


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

rsersen

Your wife is not very smart. And yes in addition to OM2 her attorney is now riding her, her wallet I mean.

Your wife just wants to go to church without a guilty conscious.

Tell her to admit adultery, sign the papers so you can be free in less than 12 months to no longer have to honor your vows unlike her and she can go to confession to be absolved of all her sins.

That is a win-win for both of you.

Stay firm. Glad to see you doing much better.

HM64


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

any detail on OM1?


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

OM1 was short-lived. About 3 months, bulk of it when we were still together. Typical player, telling her what she wanted to hear, she deserved better, etc....always stopped short of telling her to leave though (because why would he want to have to take care of the cow if he's already getting the milk for free?).

A couple weeks after she left, they were still spending a lot of time together, and then suddenly it flamed out. She says she decided she didn't want to be with him (i.e. he had served his purpose in helping her out the door, and she was done with him). However I saw some text messages between them that indicated he cut things off with her (probably once he realized that she was now entirely his problem). Not sure what the true story is - maybe it was a little of both.

According to her, they still kept occasional contact afterwards, as friends...and once she saddled up with OM2, he must have realized the game was up, and he dropped completely off the map. Don't believe she's talked to him since.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I meant proof of PA with OM1.... 

HappyMan said it best.....


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> I meant proof of PA with OM1....
> 
> HappyMan said it best.....


My bad.

Proof consists of

- Texts - none referencing any sexual activity, but plenty of innuendo. Also referencing plans to rendezvous at times she told me she was going out with friends, running errands, etc. Phone bill shows about 2,000 texts exchanged within the three months (including about a dozen picture messages), but the vast majority have been deleted (and all the picture messages as well). Possible that lawyer could get a court order to have Verizon pull them, but it may be too late (not sure how long they store message histories on their servers).

- Some photos from her phone of their nights out together. No public displays of affection caught.

- Her own confession about their relationship - meet-ups behind my back, making out at the bar, etc. Although she still contends no sex took place (but I have every reason to think her confession was trickle truth).


All in all, enough to prove they were more than "just friends", but imo it falls short of proving adultery. That's why I was content to let all of that go and focus on OM2 instead. But after talking to my lawyer, and her letter focusing on OM1, he wants to see how much of this would be admissible in court. 

Even if it all is, it's likely still not enough to prove adultery with OM1, but it could certainly help paint a pattern of unbecoming behavior on her part.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

All you have to do is let them know you're going to Verizon to get the "deleted" messages and they'll fold.

I guarantee there's a smoking gun hidden there.


----------



## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

Subpoena OM1 and make him testify under oath. Doesn't sound like he would have any reason to risk perjury.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

OUUUUCCCHHHHHH that is beyond check mate


----------



## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

Conrad said:


> All you have to do is let them know you're going to Verizon to get the "deleted" messages and they'll fold.
> 
> I guarantee there's a smoking gun hidden there.


Nice thinking! Going to run this idea by my lawyer. I bet you're right (both about them folding and about the smoking gun).



> Subpoena OM1 and make him testify under oath. Doesn't sound like he would have any reason to risk perjury.


Didn't want to drag the guys into it, but if all else fails. Maybe grab OM2 as well. I actually don't think OM2 knows about OM1. Could be a lot of fun


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

This is YOUR stage.................


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

And, these posOM's seemed like such GREAT ideas at the time.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ahhhhh a time long ago I thought my ex hung the moon

now it's not far enough away


----------

