# How to avoid a sexless marriage



## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

I'm in my 40s and my new husband is in his 50s. I'm not very high drive , I do ok with once a week. This is our second marriage , for both of us.

In my first marriage sex wasn't a problem, on the contrary it went great and we had similar drives , once a week normally , once a day on vacation, nothing changed over the approx 15 years of marriage.

My new husband said he was in a sexless marriage , his wife not wanting sex for the last 10 years of their 24 year marriage but I wonder now if it wasn't him not wanting the sex.

Now, we dated for 3 years before getting married and sex was ok. Not great but he's not so young and has some health issues but I insisted we need to have it once a week and we scheduled it and I always got off. I'm happy to schedule it as long as it happens . He had some issues here and there but very rarely, say up to 3-5 times a year. He performed ok . However I sometimes felt I kinda pushed it and he didn't want it. I noticed the direct approach isn't working so well so I refined my seduction and that seemed to work .

Anyway we got married three months ago and I start to worry that the sex will get worse or non existent. He had said in the past his T is really low. He also asked the dr for cialis and he got the prescription for it at some point when he had a couple of performance issues (which resolved in their own). But decided it was too expensive to buy.

Now, on the honeymoon we only had sex once . He is generally the one to have a headache not feel well blah blah.Then, when we came back, we kinda continued with the reluctant once a week but he does better if we skip a week due to travel etc. 

Now I have an issue , prolonged uterine bleeding and I told him how frustrated I am that we can't have sex and it's likely to take up to a couple more months until I'm fixed . He just seems relieved we don't have sex. I asked him aren't you complaining about this? He says meh it's ok I don't have any testosterone. I asked and did you talk to your dr about it? He says yeah she said I'd be a good candidate for treatment but it would cost me an extra 500/month so I didn't do it. What? So he knows there is a problem but doesn't want to fix it. Just to clarify: we can afford it.

Last weekend I said I miss being close let's meet at our place (we have a house in the country we go to) and maybe we can fool around . We get there start cuddling up in bed and he rejects my advances of oral because he isn't feeling well. We haven't had sex in over a month now. He had the sniffles nothing debilitating .

Now I wonder am I heading towards a sexless marriage or I'm overreacting? And how can I avoid that ? If he has low T how should I approach him about really seeking and taking the help. I am not ready to be done with sex. I'm afraid of the bait and switch as in he had sex once a week to appease me but now that we're married is meh I can get help but can't be bothered.

Apologize for any typos. Writing from my phone .


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Learn how to choose better partners. That's the only way I know to avoid getting into a situation you don't want. Humans are unpredictable. Some are model citizens all their life and suddenly go on a murder spree or start to rob convenience stores, or get addicted to some drug.

You can never be certain. You can limit the chances this will happen with vigilance and hard work. 

Now, how do you fix what you are going through? Good luck. If there isn't a strong chemical desire for each other, whatever you do will be a chore for one or both. 

I'm sorry. Good luck.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Well, you've survived a divorce already, so you should not hesitate to divorce again if he indeed doesn't want to have sex with you. 

Are you sure he doesn't have performance anxiety? He doesn't know if it will stay rock hard for more than a few minutes, so he avoids sex at all cost? Sounds like it to me. If that's the case, it's an easy fix. Buy cialis on the Internet from Canadian pharmacies. Screw the big pharm companies that are raping us! It's under $1 a pill online. I don't have ED and use a low dosage of cialis sometimes when I want to feel like a stallion for a weekend marathon of sex. Buy it now, it takes a few weeks to get it. The more you buy, the cheaper each pill is. I'd go this route first. 

But he needs to be honest and communicate with you! Also rule out he isn't whacking off to porn. Does have a porn habit?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ha, sorry OP can you tell we are all kinda bitter about this subject? It's mostly because we see so much of it. I was going to write "don't get married.", but since everyone else has already gone with the hard sarcastic joke route I will say this. Check his porn use. See if he is not uncomfortable with his performance. Talk to him about it. Get him checked out with a doctor. And if he is just getting old, then sickness and health right? 

Sorry, this is a difficult problem that happens in many marriages. Why did you break up with your last husband?


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Yes it is probably a combination of performance anxiety , low testosterone due to age and health and being used to masturbating to porn. 

I'll buy the Cialis thanks a lot for the suggestion. Any hints on the name of a site?

And I will talk to him but I need to find the right words so he doesn't get defensive and shuts down .

My first husband had too much testosterone if it's true that it makes mean lol he was emotionally abusive , abusive to our little son, throwing things, yelling hitting the little boy... I had to stay out of the house at weekends with the kid because anything could set him off and the abuse would start and I wanted to protect the kid from being yelled at and hit and witnessing rage. He was insecure in his career and because mine was better at the time he did us a huge favor and left.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I have a feeling that lack of sex in his first marriage was, well, exactly what you are going through right now.

You need to sit him down and make it clear that you will not tolerate a sexless marriage, not when your husband is physically able to do it. A marriage needs to be both emotionally AND physically intimate. Right now, your uterine bleeding is a problem which you are dealing with, and it won't be a problem for long. He needs to do his part, which means that he needs to address his problem, which is the low testosterone identified by the doctor. If he doesn't love you enough to care about your physical satisfaction in the marriage, he's not worth being married to, and you should walk away. And you should let him know that you are prepared to do this.

If he complains about the cost, say to him, "Are you telling me that our marriage and my happiness isn't worth $500 a month?"


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

The only real way to guarantee avoiding a sexless marriage?
The WOPR said it best:


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This really may not get better. Some of us have spent decades trying to fix this with no success. See if he is willing to really work to fix this (counseling, etc), or cut your losses. (or decide that you can be happy with minimal sex)


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Colt_blue said:


> Yes it is probably a combination of performance anxiety , low testosterone due to age and health and being used to masturbating to porn.
> 
> I'll buy the Cialis thanks a lot for the suggestion. Any hints on the name of a site?
> 
> ...


I don't think you should buy the Cialis. That will only set yourself up for more disappointment. He needs to be the one to proactively pursue a treatment.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Colt_blue said:


> Yes it is probably a combination of performance anxiety , low testosterone due to age and health and being used to masturbating to porn.
> 
> I'll buy the Cialis thanks a lot for the suggestion. Any hints on the name of a site?
> 
> ...


Man you have the trifecta. Any hope of getting him to work out? That really helps I think as far as T.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

From what you have said he wasn't that interested in sex for the 3 years you were dating, so nothing has really changed much and yet you married him anyway. Do you really want another divorce as has been suggested here? You so very recently made life long promises to him and when you married him you presumably accepted and loved him as he was/is?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Colt_blue said:


> .
> 
> My first husband had too much testosterone if it's true that it makes mean lol he was emotionally abusive , abusive to our little son, throwing things, yelling hitting the little boy... I had to stay out of the house at weekends with the kid because anything could set him off and the abuse would start and I wanted to protect the kid from being yelled at and hit and witnessing rage. He was insecure in his career and because mine was better at the time he did us a huge favor and left.


Unless he was some kind of bodybuilder or other strength athlete taking large quantities of artificial hormones and anabolic steroids etc, that was not too much T. That was being an @$$hat.

That was a character issue, not a hormonal issue.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> From what you have said he wasn't that interested in sex for the 3 years you were dating, so nothing has really changed much and yet you married him anyway. Do you really want another divorce as has been suggested here? You so very recently made life long promises to him and when you married him you presumably accepted and loved him as he was/is?


Seens like frequency has changed from 1 a week to hardly anything.

If sex is important to her then deciding early in a marriage that its just not working would be best.

Marriage promises are balony now a day's. 

If they are not compatiable then what do you do?

Everybody has their deal breakers.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Would he give you oral or use his fingers to satisfy you when hes not in the mood?

Time to really think if you can love him and this low sex drive without getting resentful. 

Maybe too much porn? That can make a guy less interested. How often is he taking care of himself watching porn?

Nothing worse than wanting your partner and them rejecting you because they took care of themselves .


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

I don't want to divorce him he isn't a very kind man and I love him. Compared to my ex...no comparison.

I don't think I'm a high drive partner and I'd be happy with the once a week like it was before getting married. I just think physical intimacy is key and we will drift apart if we don't make an effort to keep it alive .

I just got worried that he rejected me last weekend and actually it was the same day I brought up the sex thing and we talked about the testosterone and him saying yeah well I didn't take care of it. I told him "well I think I'm worth it". But we didnt continue the discussion because I felt myself getting upset and didn't want to discuss it if I wasn't calm. I think that will do no good.

I can get off just with nipple play , I was upset that I went there and we just watched TV. Then the meh I don't have testosterone . I got paranoid about the bait and switch now we're married I don't need to keep it up (pun intended ) with the same frequency. 

I get that he may not feel he needs it but I will not let this go . I truly believe it would hurt any marriage to have no intimacy and I'm convinced this was a huge part of why in his first marriage they grew apart.

The sex being good , albeit not daily by any means , I think it's a big part of why my first marriage lasted longer than its expiration date. And I was joking that my ex had too much T. He was just mean that's all. 

I don't want to


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

I meant he is a very kind man. Sorry about the typos


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I don't know if there is a study, but I think most marriages slow a little in frequency after the honeymoon period. That usually lasts about 2 years, I think? 

If he started out with one a week, well, it might have been good enough for her, but she'd have been better off with a guy who wanted it 2 - 3 times a week...........I guess?

This stuff is so unpredictable, it's incredible. Some love their spouse so much, they aren't that bothered with whatever happens with sexual frequency. When folks are young, it's damn tough to understand. 

She has to figure out what she wants. My opinion is, if it's that important, she needs to see a counselor with him for 6 months. If nothing changes, it's time to go find someone who is interested in her for sex. Apparently, he isn't. He married her for some other reasons. Maybe love of who she was at that time? Understanding, sweet, kind, loving, empathic without being patronizing, unassuming, and compromising. 

I bet much has changed. I bet, if they can talk deeply enough, and that should have been a precursor to marriage, they can find out what has changed. If not, again, a counselor can and may help, but there are no guarantees.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Sorry about talking about you rather than to you. I was writing off the top of my head and failed to error check. No disrespect was intended.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This is tough. You are hearing from a number of people here who are married to partners that they really love, but with whom their sex life is limited or non-existant. 

Its a miserable situation. If you didn't love your partner it would be easy - just say that you need sex to be happy and leave. If you really love them though, that doesn't feel like an option. It feels terrible to leave the person you love "just" because of sex. 

OTOH, if you have a normal sex drive, living without it will make you unhappy and frustrated. You won't understand why your partner wouldn't do such a simple thing for the person that they love. 

They on the other hand will never understand why you are so focused on sex - is that all that they mean to you?


The final result can be a deeply unhappy marriage - but one that seems fine when viewed from the outside. 


I think you need to be very honest with yourself: Can you be happy with limited sex for the rest of your life. Only you can answer that. If the answer is no, then you have to tell him that you are not willing to live this way. 

BTW - beware of brief improvements after you talk about it. You can get into an endless cycle of getting frustrated to the point where you make it an issue. Things get better for a while then the LD partner tries to taper things off. Eventually your frustration reaches the point where you create a crisis again. I've tried that too - also not fun at all (who wants to think that their partner is only having sex to keep them from leaving). 











Colt_blue said:


> I don't want to divorce him he isn't a very kind man and I love him. Compared to my ex...no comparison.
> 
> I don't think I'm a high drive partner and I'd be happy with the once a week like it was before getting married. I just think physical intimacy is key and we will drift apart if we don't make an effort to keep it alive .
> 
> ...


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Colt_blue said:


> Yes it is probably a combination of performance anxiety , low testosterone due to age and health and being used to masturbating to porn.
> 
> I'll buy the Cialis thanks a lot for the suggestion. Any hints on the name of a site?
> 
> ...


https://www.alldaychemist.com/ceebis.html


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

uhtred said:


> This is tough. You are hearing from a number of people here who are married to partners that they really love, but with whom their sex life is limited or non-existant.
> 
> Its a miserable situation. If you didn't love your partner it would be easy - just say that you need sex to be happy and leave. If you really love them though, that doesn't feel like an option. It feels terrible to leave the person you love "just" because of sex.
> 
> ...


Nail on head!

With that said I think its ok to throw in the towel if sex is important.

Just sayin.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

If you don't get married you will advoid a sexless marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> Seens like frequency has changed from 1 a week to hardly anything.
> 
> If sex is important to her then deciding early in a marriage that its just not working would be best.
> 
> ...


Marriage promises aren't baloney to many of us, we mean them. I always read about this 'not compatible' stuff, you are never going to get to get two people who are the same about everything, how boring it would be if we were, and marriage is not all about getting what we want all the time. People forget the for better and for worse bit. 
BTW they only had sex once a week because she pushed for it, he wasnt that bothered before either.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Anyone here had success finding middle ground when there is some difference in libido?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Marriage promises aren't baloney to many of us, we mean them. I always read about this 'not compatible' stuff, you are never going to get to get two people who are the same about everything, how boring it would be if we were, and marriage is not all about getting what we want all the time. People forget the for better and for worse bit.
> BTW they only had sex once a week because she pushed for it, he wasnt that bothered before either.


There balonoy, you just get to pick what you won't settle for.

How about a gamabling addiction,

How about a porn addiction

How about a food addiction

Severe emotional abuse or neglect

What if they decided they were never going to kiss you

Mental health issues, they became a hoarder, never takes a shower

The whole for better or worse is just fluff for the vast majority.

But I respect your resolve.

By the way I'm still married. I believe that everybody has there deal breakers, and I might not be if I had this cool message board years and years ago before I had children. 

I was conflicted about this very same topic is a sub par sexlife worth leaving for? I believe so! In hind sight!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Did you hear the doctor when the doctor gave the diagnosis? Did you see the diagnosis in writing?

Do NOT trust your husband on this. I bet he is lying about what the doctor said. Go with him to his doctor appointment, and have the doctor explain to you just what is going on with your husband. Have your husband authorize full disclosure to you.

And yes, I make certain my wife is fully involved in my medical care, including speaking directly with my doctor. And we have no issues to resolve.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Why do you think he's lying to me?


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

I'm actually going to see his doctor, who is now our doctor, on Friday , would it be ok to bring this up? Perhaps she can't discuss due to hippa


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

She cannot discuss his care with you, unless he specifically authorizes you to be allowed to receive the information. At least that is how it works for me in this state. However, I was pretty belligerent about making certain they had to share everything with my wife.

I am extremely alpha.

He is lying to you because it is a convenient excuse for him to avoid having sex with you, and avoid facing the real reason he does not want to have sex with you.

After you get his real diagnosis you can begin to find out what is really going on.

Why do I suspect he is lying? Because it is so very, very common. It is, to use a medical term since it seems appropriate to the moment, pandemic. People think their spouse will just believe whatever they say the doctor said. The authority of "doctor" trumps doubt, and covers deception very easily. It is used quite often.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> The only real way to guarantee avoiding a sexless marriage?
> The WOPR said it best:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGNZnfKYnU


Nonsense I've played the game twice and I haven't ever been in a sexless sexual relationship.

In my experience through two marriages which saw a tremendous amount of frequent great sex before each respective marriage. I have found that a tremendous amount of frequent great sex continues unabated throughout marriage.

Likewise from that experience with my wife ex-wife and other sexual partners. I expect if I ever divorce my wife and marry another woman, lots of frequent unabated great sex will still continue to follow.

Instead of thinking the only winning move is not to play, perhaps one would be better off addressing how they play.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Colt_blue said:


> My new husband said he was in a sexless marriage , his wife not wanting sex for the last 10 years of their 24 year marriage but I wonder now if it wasn't him not wanting the sex.
> 
> Now, we dated for 3 years before getting married and sex was ok. Not great but he's not so young and has some health issues but I insisted we need to have it once a week and we scheduled it and I always got off. I'm happy to schedule it as long as it happens . He had some issues here and there but very rarely, say up to 3-5 times a year. He performed ok . However I sometimes felt I kinda pushed it and he didn't want it. I noticed the direct approach isn't working so well so I refined my seduction and that seemed to work .


When it comes to sex, your husband was a banner parade of red flags that you ignored. At the end of the day this will not get better, so you will either have to suck it up and live with it. Or let him go and choose more wisely in the future.

That said any man that sucks up a long term marriage sans any sex or much sex at all, is more likely to be a sexual failure than not. Sure some are fine afterwards, yet many aren't that sexual, since if they were they wouldn't have sucked up such dreck to begin with.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Personal said:


> Nonsense I've played the game twice and I haven't ever been in a sexless sexual relationship.
> 
> In my experience through two marriages which saw a tremendous amount of frequent great sex before each respective marriage. I have found that a tremendous amount of frequent great sex continues unabated throughout marriage.
> 
> ...


That’s why I said the only way to GUARANTEE. You can certainly improve your odds by doing the right things, but you can’t have 100% certainlty. Your two marriages do not a complete set make. You simply haven’t ended up with a dud. Some people constantly assess and address how they play. Some do everything possible and still get little in the way of results. No matter how “good” one person is, it still takes two to tango.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> No matter how “good” one person is, it still takes two to tango.


Indeed or more than two depending upon the proclivities of those participating.

Incidentally I enjoyed that film way back when.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Ok so what I'm hearing is:

1. Nobody here ever had any success in finding middle ground when there is a difference in libido in the couple. 
2. The options are : divorce or suck it up

I don't think these are very good options for me. I plan to talk to him about it and make it clear that our marriage needs intimacy and he needs to take the steps to pull his weight in this because it's not a trivial thing. And I will compromise by skipping some weeks if I feel him not in great mood and by not being too direct. I won't directly tell him I won't be direct ) I hope we will avoid having a sexless marriage and we will get along. I know he loves me and he always tries to do whatever he can to give me what I ask. So I'm optimistic.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Regarding the red flags when we were dating. 

I likely self selected for a low desire partner because I dated online and it was of upmost importance to me that I didn't get pumped and dumped and that I didn't end up with a high number of sexual partners and thus I went for men who didn't push for sex at the first or second date and who weren't using sexual innuendo before even meeting. If anyone was suggestive before meeting I'd drop them immediately . 

I still don't regret it. Those guys were sleazy. I prefer what I have even with the challenges to sleeping with 30 men (gross) I didn't know well and dealing with such people. And I don't think I could cope with someone who is very high desire either. So here is to hoping my dear husband and I will work it out with what we have .


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Colt_blue said:


> Ok so what I'm hearing is:
> 
> 1. Nobody here ever had any success in finding middle ground when there is a difference in libido in the couple.
> 2. The options are : divorce or suck it up


I would say very very few find a middle ground unless and until the higher desire partner makes it crystal clear they are leaving if the lower desire partner doesn't up their game. So if you aren't willing to deliver the message "up your game or I am out of here", and follow through if he tests your sincerity, then your odds of getting your husband to up his game are very low.



> I plan to talk to him about it and make it clear that our marriage needs intimacy and he needs to take the steps to pull his weight in this because it's not a trivial thing. And I will compromise by skipping some weeks if I feel him not in great mood and by not being too direct. I won't directly tell him I won't be direct ) I hope we will avoid having a sexless marriage and we will get along.


In our experience, your strategy has a very low success rate. Having "the talk" rarely works unless you make it clear that the consequence of his refusing to compromise is losing you.



> I don't think these are very good options for me. I know he loves me and he always tries to do whatever he can to give me what I ask. So I'm optimistic.


I think most here would say you are naive. But we wish you luck. You might be one of the fortunate few for whom the talk works. If not, we are here to help you move forward and we won't pound you with "I told you so" too hard.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Hey we are newlyweds and I'm allowed to be naively optimistic ?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Colt_blue said:


> I likely self selected for a low desire partner because I dated online and it was of upmost importance to me that I didn't get pumped and dumped and that I didn't end up with a high number of sexual partners and thus I went for men who didn't push for sex at the first or second date and who weren't using sexual innuendo before even meeting. If anyone was suggestive before meeting I'd drop them immediately .
> 
> I still don't regret it. Those guys were sleazy. I prefer what I have even with the challenges to sleeping with 30 men (gross) I didn't know well and dealing with such people. And I don't think I could cope with someone who is very high desire either. So here is to hoping my dear husband and I will work it out with what we have .


This is the dilemma women face. Lots of men are high drive and expect sex right away. Or at least want it badly enough that they are willing push to see if it is available. As a woman, it is irritating to keep having to swatting the flies away. So when you meet a guy who isn't ALL about sex, it is refreshing and pleasant. So you allow yourself to become emotionally involved with the guy. After all, he is a gentleman and not disgusting pig like so many others. This guy might even be THE ONE.

And then finally you open the door to sex. And you expect him to be chomping at the bit to throw himself through the door. And he looks at you and says "oh, you want me to go in there?" And he hesitantly steps over the threshold. But he never really plants himself inside the room and takes possession of the space. That is sooooo disappointing.

So here is the moral of this story to help you reset your "picker". When you find a guy who is patient and good mannered. And who doesn't press for sex on the first date. And you get to the point where YOU are ready to be sexual with him. Watch carefully. If he doesn't want to have a multi-day sex marathon when you first say "yes", dump him immediately. Because the real reason he didn't push for sex is NOT that he is polite. It is that he doesn't have much drive / desire for sex at all. And he will only disappoint you in the sex department if you stay with him.

The guy who will be a good sex partner long term is a guy who will sometimes want sex when you don't. He will notice attractive woman when they walk by. Because he has a sex drive. The guy who never seems to want sex when you aren't in the mood and who doesn't ogle your hot friend doesn't have much if any drive of his own. So you probably will have to accept some bad if you want a healthy portion of the good. Sad but true.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> There balonoy, you just get to pick what you won't settle for.
> 
> How about a gamabling addiction,
> 
> ...


 The only reasons why I would end a marriage would be for adultery or serious physical or sexual abuse of the spouse and/or children. 
I was married for 25 years before, I ended it because of those reasons. Some things such a adultery break the marriage covenant. 
Other than that its for better and for worse for both of us. I meant the promises when I said them and I wont ever divorce my second husband whatever happens. 

I wouldn't end a marriage for the things you mentioned, but I may separate until they got help but not divorce.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Unless he was some kind of bodybuilder or other strength athlete taking large quantities of artificial hormones and anabolic steroids etc, that was not too much T. That was being an @$$hat.
> 
> That was a character issue, not a hormonal issue.


Yes and no...

There are men who are on the 'edge' of that Butte-wipe cliff.
A little more T pushes them over the edge. Makes their below-the-surface rage, visible.

To be imprecise, any Butte over 800 feet, ~800 total T.
It need not be that 800, may be 1111, but some critical level.

A low sexed guy at 25, become a no-sex guy in his 50's.
The other issue is physical fitness. A man who is in bad shape cannot do a good job in bed. He need not be fat, but having no wind, endurance, a weak back.:surprise:

Some health insurance policies will pay for testosterone injections. Usually, group type, employer sponsored. 

For how long? Now that Obama care is imploding and insurance companies are scrambling, your guess is good as mine.

The T will do the mental horny job. But, after he starts on the T, he may find out his plumbing is plugged up also. 
A wonderful thing the Red Queen puts on men's backs.

Women too, three, four, out the door, woo!


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

@Holdingontoit you are likely 100% correct. But now it's too late. Not going to do online dating again anytime soon. Unless it's ****** ******* hahaha Kidding. I never cheated and will never cheat .


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Colt_blue said:


> I don't want to divorce him he is a very kind man and I love him. Compared to my ex...no comparison.


This is one of the biggest mistakes people make - comparing one partner to another, and making that the deciding factor.

Don't let your previous marital experience cloud your vision. Yes, he's _better_, but it's still not a great match.

I can tell you in all honesty, my ex wife started dating me because (and she even said this) - I wasn't like the other guys she had dated before. Both in personality, and in looks. Initially, she _was_ attracted to these different qualities. She had a type she was hot for, but because she had bad experiences with that type, she switched it up. Went with the opposite. Worked great for many years, until she left me for the EXACT type she had always dated before she met me.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Colt_blue said:


> Regarding the red flags when we were dating.
> 
> I likely self selected for a low desire partner because I dated online and it was of upmost importance to me that I didn't get pumped and dumped and that I didn't end up with a high number of sexual partners and thus I went for men who didn't push for sex at the first or second date and who weren't using sexual innuendo before even meeting. If anyone was suggestive before meeting I'd drop them immediately .
> 
> I still don't regret it. Those guys were sleazy. I prefer what I have even with the challenges to sleeping with 30 men (gross) I didn't know well and dealing with such people. And I don't think I could cope with someone who is very high desire either. So here is to hoping my dear husband and I will work it out with what we have .


I am sure that you will. He sounds like a good man. I know there are people here who advise that you dump someone just because their libido isn't the same as yours, but to me that's terrible advise. No wonder we have so many divorces now. Marriage is so much more than that and its all about compromise. I would never date a man who wanted sex on the first few dates, or who had had multiple partners.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

uhtred said:


> This is tough. You are hearing from a number of people here who are married to partners that they really love, but with whom their sex life is limited or non-existant.
> 
> Its a miserable situation. If you didn't love your partner it would be easy - just say that you need sex to be happy and leave. If you really love them though, that doesn't feel like an option. It feels terrible to leave the person you love "just" because of sex.
> 
> OTOH, if you have a normal sex drive, living without it will make you unhappy and frustrated. You won't understand why your partner wouldn't do such a simple thing for the person that they love.


I agree with this - it is difficult. Similar situation here, as you know.

The thing that keeps popping in my head, however, and is hard to shake, is - what if my spouse (or yours, or somebody else's who's in a similar boat) simply doesn't love me the way, or as much, as I love her? It's a negative thought, but I think it must have some merit.

My wife (and yours, U.) knows that this is a very important facet of a successful marriage - for us. Yet, here we are, going in circles about it with them, with no end in sight.

The reason I keep arriving at this over and over again, is because I know that if X, Y or Z was as important to my spouse as sex is to me, I would go to the ends of the earth to provide X, Y or Z for her.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

He needs checked by a doctor for heart problems, or any conditions which might hamper his physical abilities. 

Once those are out of the way, he needs checked for depression and any mental issues like something in his past that never was addressed.

After that, I think I would want to check......what is that T level that is floating around in the blood stream? Free testosterone? Not sure.

Then, if all of that is okay, and he doesn't have some hidden fetish he is ashamed to talk about, I'd figure he just simply doesn't have that chemical attraction that will drive his libido when he is around you. 

That doesn't mean he doesn't love you deeply, but it won't be good for driving sexual desire. 

He could push through that sometimes, but it might mean you will have to initiate more often and in a certain way that will get him going and keep him there. That's individual, so it would take work. 

Even then, you should be under the guidance of professionals all the way through. 

I agree with others that you have to let him know that this is serious. There can't be any minced words or hidden actions. Consequences that don't come across as what they are and for lack of effort, I believe, have to be easily interpreted, or you can create more issues. 

It's a daunting task and I do believe you need professional help with all of it. They will know how to help you both. You two have to decide if it's worth it. One person cannot do it alone. The counselor can determine if he is going to put in the effort needed to give it an honest try. You may get frustrated more without one. 

I don't know. These are just thoughts of mine. I can't tell you what will work or how. Most of us aren't counselors. We just have experience in one side or another. We know what we went through and what we think would have or did or didn't work for us, but everyone is a bit different. 

Good luck. You have a long road ahead, but it could be eye opening and educational. It could be fun, too.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Lots of people advising you to do this or that and telling you what they would do, but one thing I have yet to see - have you talked to your H about this? This is obviously a serious matter to you. Your concerns are valid. You need to talk to your H and let him no how important this is to you. Cialis can be gotten for pennies on the dollar as can most other script medication, from good over seas pharmacies, so even if he isn't willing to spend $500 a month extra, it can still be done. 
As for making it work, that will be up to you and your H. As you already stated life is full of compromises. Once a week may be the compromise you are willing to accept in this situation given all the other positives you seem to enjoy. But once a week must also be a compromise he is willing to make. Perhaps he is unaware of all the positives he stands to lose out on if he doesn't take this compromise and make the effort required to fulfill his end of it.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> So here is the moral of this story to help you reset your "picker". When you find a guy who is patient and good mannered. And who doesn't press for sex on the first date. And you get to the point where YOU are ready to be sexual with him. Watch carefully. If he doesn't want to have a multi-day sex marathon when you first say "yes", dump him immediately.


I agree with your advice. I was one of the guys who was happy to get to know a lady first and spend time with her without the expectation of sex. However, I did have a high sex drive at the same time. After the relationship was established, sex became a big part of the relationship in our daily lives. These were ladies that I had met in person. Later when I tried on-line dating, my first messages were friendly and polite, but without any sexual overtures. I occasionally wonder if that is part of the reason why I almost never received replies.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I and and many people take marriage vows seriously, but I think a lot of people assume things that are not explicitly stated. For example:

Each partner will share in life's burdens, whether its work, chores etc. 

Each will be there to help the other in need.

Each will make some effort to maintain themselves and joint property in some reasonable physical condition.

Each will mange jointly money and other resources in some reasonable way.


Then there is the physical stuff: I think there is an assumption that marriage includes some level of physical intimacy - hugs, kisses, general affection, and ....yes sex. I think that when most people get married there is an assumption that their partner is agreeing to a reasonable sex life. 

So if the partner has abdicated one of these responsibilities, does that invalidate the marriage? 




Diana7 said:


> Marriage promises aren't baloney to many of us, we mean them. I always read about this 'not compatible' stuff, you are never going to get to get two people who are the same about everything, how boring it would be if we were, and marriage is not all about getting what we want all the time. People forget the for better and for worse bit.
> BTW they only had sex once a week because she pushed for it, he wasnt that bothered before either.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The operative word is "reasonable". A few states specify metrics for quantity and none for quality .


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Cialis can be gotten for pennies on the dollar as can most other script medication, from good over seas pharmacies, so even if he isn't willing to spend $500 a month extra, it can still be done.


The way I read the post, the issue is with the testosterone replacement costing $500. She said the ED resolved itself anyway. He can take all of the cheap ED drugs he wants. He needs to get his testosterone fixed first. I've read that some people had low T, got it fixed but still didn't want sex after it was fixed. 

Sex is complicated.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Ynot said:


> Lots of people advising you to do this or that and telling you what they would do, but one thing I have yet to see - have you talked to your H about this? This is obviously a serious matter to you. Your concerns are valid. You need to talk to your H and let him no how important this is to you. Cialis can be gotten for pennies on the dollar as can most other script medication, from good over seas pharmacies, so even if he isn't willing to spend $500 a month extra, it can still be done.
> As for making it work, that will be up to you and your H. As you already stated life is full of compromises. Once a week may be the compromise you are willing to accept in this situation given all the other positives you seem to enjoy. But once a week must also be a compromise he is willing to make. Perhaps he is unaware of all the positives he stands to lose out on if he doesn't take this compromise and make the effort required to fulfill his end of it.


She has already talked to him about it (she mentioned this in her first post), and he was pretty dismissive about her concerns.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Jus260 said:


> The way I read the post, the issue is with the testosterone replacement costing $500. She said the ED resolved itself anyway. He can take all of the cheap ED drugs he wants. He needs to get his testosterone fixed first. I've read that some people had low T, got it fixed but still didn't want sex after it was fixed.
> 
> Sex is complicated.


Depending on the cause, it may simply be a matter of changing his diet or more exercise. Then there are supplements, which can increase T levels as well. Most doctors are more than happy to present the alternative (and more expensive) pharmaceutical means. It may be unnecessary.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

FeministInPink said:


> She has already talked to him about it (she mentioned this in her first post), and he was pretty dismissive about her concerns.


It sounded like she beat around the bush and did not expressly relay the fact that THIS is an issue which needs to be addressed if her H wants to continue to be married. It is one thing to say, "honey, I want more sex" it is quite another to say "honey, this is an issue that we need to address because it is making me unhappy. I am willing to have sex at least once a week, but I am concerned that you don't want to even that. You went to the doctor and he offered you alternatives. But you have chosen not to pursue them because of money. This is important to me, I do not think cost should be an issue, especially when we can afford it. So please, make the effort or we may need to go our separate ways"


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think there are a few success stories, but they are a small minority. Many of us have really tried - done our very best to fix this problem. Spend literally decades at it, and had no success. 

When the gap is small there is middle ground, but its really difficult with a large gap. Soon after marriage the gap will be at its smallest - you are excited to be with each other, happy to compromise a little. As time goes on it will likely get worse.

Can you accept the sexual rejection is not a rejection of *you*? Can you deal with having spent a lovely romantic day together, that he decides he would rather watch TV or read a book than make love to you? That you will have to sneak off to the bathroom to masturbate to relieve your sexual frustrations while the man you love is on FB or something?


Only you can know how you really feel. My main recommendation is that you not plan on things getting better. They might, and that would be fantastic, but only stay married if you are OK with things the way that they are. 








Colt_blue said:


> Ok so what I'm hearing is:
> 
> 1. Nobody here ever had any success in finding middle ground when there is a difference in libido in the couple.
> 2. The options are : divorce or suck it up
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

That is a really difficult problem - especially for women. There are enough men that really just want sex, and will say anything to get it, that it makes sense to avoid those who want sex early in dating. 

OTOH, that leaves you open to your current problem. 

Its also difficult to tell early on what men *just* want sex, as opposed to those who enjoy sex, but want everything else in a marriage / relationship. The first are terrible partners, the second can be wonderful partners.


Thorough no fault of your own, you are in a really difficult situation. 





Colt_blue said:


> Regarding the red flags when we were dating.
> 
> I likely self selected for a low desire partner because I dated online and it was of upmost importance to me that I didn't get pumped and dumped and that I didn't end up with a high number of sexual partners and thus I went for men who didn't push for sex at the first or second date and who weren't using sexual innuendo before even meeting. If anyone was suggestive before meeting I'd drop them immediately .
> 
> I still don't regret it. Those guys were sleazy. I prefer what I have even with the challenges to sleeping with 30 men (gross) I didn't know well and dealing with such people. And I don't think I could cope with someone who is very high desire either. So here is to hoping my dear husband and I will work it out with what we have .


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

$500/month for testosterone therapy is a ludicrous overestimate. More like ~$1000 or less per YEAR if no insurance coverage. Makes me think the whole objection is just a convenient excuse. 

Test cypionate and insulin syringes are dirt cheap. You can self-inject semiweekly; fire any doc who wants you to come in and pay for more widely spaced office-visit injections. If you want to add an aromatase inhibitor to keep estrogen down, that's dirt cheap too. hCG co-therapy is a little pricier, but nowhere near that figure. T-Nation TRT forum has the goods on best protocols. 

Cialis enhances and sustains erections, but it doesn't create desire. If it's necessary, get a Rx for the 20mg tabs and cut them--it's much cheaper that way.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Colt_blue said:


> ...This is our second marriage , for both of us.
> 
> In my first marriage sex wasn't a problem, on the contrary it went great and we had similar drives , once a week normally
> 
> ...


So much I could comment on. Let's start with just two comments.

*T-levels and getting HRT*

He is cheap. Tell him that he can get bio-identical Testosterone from a compounding pharmacy for about $90 for a 3 month supply with absolutely no insurance. Now there might be good reasons why he doesn't want to go on hormone replacement therapy (HTR). The first is it is quite common that after about 3 months his body try to maintain the older T level and his body will shut down his testicles. Very common to have dramatic shrinkage in testicle size. Also very common that after a while stopping HTR will not cause the body to turn the testicles back on and T-levels will be horrible. As an aside belly fat converts T into the female hormone which further depresses libido. So loosing weight is often the first step. 

There are also some studies out there that show men who start taking HRT die of heart failure more frequently than men that don't. Of course if you carefully read the studies they are men who can't walk more than half a block, have virtually no muscle mass, and can't climb more than a flight of stairs. The higher T gives them more energy and they try to do too much for their frail bodies.

*What is sex*

You see to feel that if you can't get PIV sex, you are not having sex. Woman, you need to change your perspective on things. 

Most men, if they are lucky to live long enough, will get prostate cancer. Most "cures" for prostate cancer have at least a 17 to 30% chance of impotence. Most men as they get older get a variety of age related diseases and an sad fact of life is that impotence is either a part of the disease, its cure, or the medications to treat the disease.

What that means is that if you want to have a long happy marriage, you need to expand your definition of sex and intimacy to include things that don't include an erect penis sliding in and out of your vagina. It is good that you can do oral. 

Older women also sometime get medical conditions that make PIV hard as you seem to be finding out. Could this be partly about your fears of loosing your ability to have sex as much as his. It is also likely your fear of repeating in some kind of way the failures of his past wife to keep the fires a sexual passion going.


*My advice*. 

Talk to him and tell him that you don't want to hurt him like his past wife. Tell him that sex is important to you, but that you also want to figure out how you can expand your definitions of sex and intimacy and you want his help on that. 

Tell him that low T levels are not as expensive a thing as he may think that they are. Tell him that getting HRT could increase his energy levels, his libido, make him less grumpy, allow him to build muscle mass, help build stronger bones, and lose weight. There are a heck of a lot of reasons for a man with low T to go in for HRT. There are a heck of a lot of reasons why a man might not want to as well, but cost is not really a significant factor unless one is enamored with patented drugs as opposed to generic or compounded.

Good luck.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> The first is it is quite common that after about 3 months his body try to maintain the older T level and his body will shut down his testicles. Very common to have dramatic shrinkage in testicle size. Also very common that after a while stopping HTR will not cause the body to turn the testicles back on and T-levels will be horrible. As an aside belly fat converts T into the female hormone which further depresses libido. So loosing weight is often the first step.


HCG (Human chorionic gonadotropin) is quite effective in preventing testicle shrinkage while on HTR. HCG is also a natural compound.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Thanks for the advice above! Very good I appreciate it ! 

I am not expecting PIV sex only. In fact last weekend, which promted my worry, I wanted to give him oral and what I wanted from him is kissing and nipple play and stuff like that since I'm bleeding. I just wanted to get naked and full around. I said somewhere that I can come just with nipple play, among other ways.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> HCG (Human chorionic gonadotropin) is quite effective in preventing testicle shrinkage while on HTR. HCG is also a natural compound.


Good point, but he seems pretty cost sensitive and not sure what HCG costs with all the diet fad usage.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

If you are in perimenopause, much of this may be your perception due to your levels of estrogen dropping while testosterone stays the same. This will cause you to be more interested in sex. He may actually be the same as he always was, but you perceive it differently, now. 

This is why I tend to stay out of these threads and I'm sorry I didn't. Things are forgotten, not mentioned, not considered as important, and there are excuses. 

I'm not saying you are making excuses or lying, but there is no advice that will work. 

Include in mine, see your doctor and take him, allowing him to ask any questions he needs to help him understand what you are/will be going through, and let him ask you questions. 

This is bull crap, and I have no patience for it. 

Move the goal posts again. I feel this thread is for dupes. I'm out. I'm tired of being disrespected. 

Good luck with your issues.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> If you are in perimenopause, much of this may be your perception due to your levels of estrogen dropping while testosterone stays the same. This will cause you to be more interested in sex. He may actually be the same as he always was, but you perceive it differently, now.
> 
> This is why I tend to stay out of these threads and I'm sorry I didn't. Things are forgotten, not mentioned, not considered as important, and there are excuses.
> 
> ...



What did I miss? The woman wants to have sex with her husband. How did you get disrespected?


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Sorry I offended you . 

Anyway I got good ideas here. Now it's time to make sure this marriage is going well.

I'm sorry I won't take the dump him advice that's something the internet is always telling you. Just wanted some ideas outside of that option and I got them, despite the gloomy predictions.

Hope everyone here finds happiness one way or another!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

@Colt_blue ,
In case you are still checking, find a doctor, possibly an endocrinologist, who will prescribe clomiphene citrate. It is way better for him that testosterone or cialis. By the way there is not a sexier gift you can give a man than Cialis.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

You need to address this issue with him immediately. No beating around the bush. If you can afford his treatment than you need to tell him he needs to go to the doctors and have this issue treated immediately. Failure to do so will result in Divorce. He needs to understand this from early on in the marriage. I can guarantee you things will only get worse if you do not address this issue now then sexlessness will become the norm for you two. He needs to understand that you will not tolerate living your life like a celebant monk.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Will absolutely make it crystal clear that if we have no or very little intimacy, way below what I was accustomed with before we got married our marriage will end. 

And will explore things medically , I mean I can help with ideas some from here some from the doctors but he needs to pursue it.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

Colt_blue you asked if anyone worked out their sexual frequency and interest differences.

I have been reading "Young at Heart's" post for about 8 years and he and his wife came to a reasonable compromise, to a point I would call being very successful. 

Search for some of his older posts and read where he was and what he did to get where he and his wife are now. 

Like you said, too many "divorce the guy now" opinions. Young at Heart's path required work and he knows what he is talking about, so trust what he has to say.

I had an idea that your H is interested in sex but sex was so frustrating to him in his previous M that there might still be some deeply buried emotions that cause him to feel there might de some negative consequences if he takes a more active role being sexual.

I read another female posters trials with a new man after the man got a divorce from a wife that was an ice princess and the XW wasn't nice to him. It sounded like suffering from his past experiences. The new woman had to assure this guy she wasn't like his XW and what she liked sexually. It took almost a year before he felt his sexual wants were valid and there would be no negative consequences for him if he explored some of his needs or desires with in reason.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Thank you so much! I will read this user's posts. I see this as a solvable problem.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Colt_blue said:


> Thank you so much! I will read this user's posts. I see this as a solvable problem.


Where have I heard that before? 



Find out and rule out physical causes first then worry about non physical causes. His cooperation thru this is paramount. If he's not as eager as you to address physical causes first, if any, it's a whole new ballgame.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Colt_blue said:


> Ok so what I'm hearing is:
> 
> 1. Nobody here ever had any success in finding middle ground when there is a difference in libido in the couple.
> 2. The options are : divorce or suck it up
> ...



The majority here perhaps didn’t have success (that’s why they are still here probably). Some did success.
I was always HD and my wife is LD but the difference is not huge.
She basically made an effort to be intimate with me more often because she realised it’s important for us and our relationship. I feel skeptical at times if she’s actually enjoying it or comes onto me just because she thinks I need it (and sometimes feel uncomfortable if that’s the case). We spoke about it many times and on balance I believe her: she says that she may not always feel an impulse to have sex (it’s not the first thing on her mind, unlike me) but she just makes room for it in her head and when she does it, she WANTS to do it. I was only concerned if it was a burden for her (because I don’t want it to be) but she’s not the kind of person who would ‘suffer through something’ just for me. She says sex is not as big a deal for her as it is for me but it is also not a big deal for her to make room for it and when she makes room for it, she really enjoys it.
Many will tell you here other things (‘don’t accept charity sex’, ‘don’t try to change him’, ‘in the long term this will not work’ and ‘let him be the way he is and find somebody else’). They may be right. But it’s also because they failed and don’t know any other way. Others don’t post here so much anymore...
It depends if you can reach some kind of compromise with him. He may not be aware that it is a big deal to you if it’s not communicated properly. It’s difficult to give the right advice here because I don’t know whether his issues are physical and if they are mental, whether he’s the kind of person who exhibits empathy.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't know if there is a study, but I think most marriages slow a little in frequency after the honeymoon period. That usually lasts about 2 years, I think?



6 months. On average.



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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> Good point, but he seems pretty cost sensitive and not sure what HCG costs with all the diet fad usage.


About $20 per month if coming from Canada.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Colt_blue said:


> Anyone here had success finding middle ground when there is some difference in libido?




Yes. Very much so. At least so far (together since we were both around 16 years old - for 20 years, married for 9 years).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> I would say very very few find a middle ground unless and until the higher desire partner makes it crystal clear they are leaving if the lower desire partner doesn't up their game. So if you aren't willing to deliver the message "up your game or I am out of here", and follow through if he tests your sincerity, then your odds of getting your husband to up his game are very low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 it’s actually not like this at all. The ones who find the middle ground either don’t have the need to post here or stopped posting after they have ‘solved’ their problem. The others remain here, giving out the impression of completely wrong odds!
Of course it’s tough. And of course chance of failure is high but it’s not ‘very very few’ who manage to make it work.
If that was the case, we would see MUCH higher divorces rates in the statistics. I would say that judging purely by sexual incompatibility (in terms of HD and LD partner combination) ALMOST EVERY couple will be a mismatch. Some mismatches will be greater than others. If only ‘very very few’ managed to work things out in the bed department, there would be 75%+ divorces. This is quite clearly NOT the case. This forum is completely not representative of the real world.



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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> it’s actually not like this at all. The ones who find the middle ground either don’t have the need to post here or stopped posting after they have ‘solved’ their problem. The others remain here, giving out the impression of completely wrong odds!
> Of course it’s tough. And of course chance of failure is high but it’s not ‘very very few’ who manage to make it work.
> If that was the case, we would see MUCH higher divorces rates in the statistics. I would say that judging purely by sexual incompatibility (in terms of HD and LD partner combination) ALMOST EVERY couple will be a mismatch. Some mismatches will be greater than others. If only ‘very very few’ managed to work things out in the bed department, there would be 75%+ divorces. This is quite clearly NOT the case. This forum is completely not representative of the real world.
> 
> ...


Sexual dysfunction issues are quite common but they're not an on-off type issue that either is there or is not. 

Divorce is a multifaceted issue and rarely happens due to a single cause.

There's also event chains that further complicate the root cause, ie lack of intimacy then cheating then...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> This is the dilemma women face. Lots of men are high drive and expect sex right away. Or at least want it badly enough that they are willing push to see if it is available. As a woman, it is irritating to keep having to swatting the flies away. So when you meet a guy who isn't ALL about sex, it is refreshing and pleasant. So you allow yourself to become emotionally involved with the guy. After all, he is a gentleman and not disgusting pig like so many others. This guy might even be THE ONE.
> 
> And then finally you open the door to sex. And you expect him to be chomping at the bit to throw himself through the door. And he looks at you and says "oh, you want me to go in there?" And he hesitantly steps over the threshold. But he never really plants himself inside the room and takes possession of the space. That is sooooo disappointing.
> 
> ...




Oh dear...
Everybody knows how to ‘play’ that game! Not all HD guys PUSH for sex precisely for these reasons: it’s first of all rude and inappropriate to do it immediately. And by the time it becomes more appropriate, the woman thinks it’s ‘out of passion’. (Which is true). Only morons ‘expect sex right away’. 
Hundreds of years of literature pretty much is all about ‘conquering the woman’s heart!’ (To get laid, in other words).
Also the guys who DO like sex don’t have to ‘ogle’ wife’s hot friends  She doesn’t need to ‘accept’ any ‘bad’ for the greater good . She just needs to talk to her husband and work it out or see if there are any physical issues. Sometimes the mind boggles 🤨



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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Oh dear...🤯
> Hey everybody knows how to ‘play’ that game! Not all HD guys PUSH for sex precisely for these reasons: it’s first of all rude and inappropriate to do it immediately. And by the time it becomes more appropriate, the woman thinks it’s ‘out of passion’. (Which is true). Only morons ‘expect sex right away’.
> Hundreds of years of literature pretty much is all about ‘conquering the woman’s heart!’ (To get laid, in other words).
> Also the guys who DO like sex don’t have to ‘ogle’ wife’s hot friends  She doesn’t need to ‘accept’ any ‘bad’ for the greater good . She just needs to talk to her husband and work it out or see if there are any physical issues. Sometimes the mind boggles 🤯
> ...


I agree. The idea that men who don't ogle women have low sex drives or no sex drive is nonsense. They just have more self control and respect for their wives. Its about character not testosterone.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> This is one of the biggest mistakes people make - comparing one partner to another, and making that the deciding factor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That might sound like she should go back to dating abusive guys? I know you didn’t mean it like that. 
Yes there’s some truth to that. That we all have ‘types’. But that range may be pretty wide, with some overlapping in qualities.
I’m not sure she necessarily meant that her new husband is the opposite ‘type’ to her ex husband. 
Just because the new husband is not abusive or doesn’t have the same sex drive as her, doesn’t mean he is a very different type to what she’d normally be attracted to!

‘Same sex drive’ is not really a type in any case. It’s more like sharing the same hobby or interest. In fact it’s exactly like that. If my hobby was golf and I had a wife who was completely disinterested in golf, it wouldn’t say anything about her ‘type’ (which is defined as character/personality and looks I presume?)

Just that she is not the ‘golfing’ type 



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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Handy said:


> Colt_blue you asked if anyone worked out their sexual frequency and interest differences.
> 
> I have been reading "Young at Heart's" post for about 8 years and he and his wife came to a reasonable compromise, to a point I would call being very successful.
> 
> ...


Oh my goodness that has just bought back what happened with us and my husband in his first marriage. Its a very similar situation to the one you mention. 

The sex life in his first marriage of 23 years was a real disappointment to him. He wasn't allowed to instigate sex, they only had sex if/when she said so, and if he ever asked for anything new(these were very minor things BTW)she took it as a criticism and resented it. If he wanted sex more that once a week she made him feel like a pervert. She also used sex as a means of control. He was rejected so many times that he almost got to the point of being unable to get an erection and he almost gave up trying. 

Well then she met another man and divorced him, and we met during that process.

I knew that sex was very important to him and we talked about it a lot while dating/engaged, (didn't have sex till we married). 
I made the decision then to never ever reject him for sex and in 12 years I haven't. Despite this, it was a long time before he was able to get over that fear of being rejected, years actually, and actually ask for sex in a direct way rather than sort of testing the waters and going round the houses to make sure I was interested and wasn't going to say no. He is fine now and knows that I wont say no, that I love having sex with him and seeing him enjoy what he didn't get before, and he is far more direct, but it shows that what has happened in the past definitely does affect us now.

It may well be the case here, that he just gave up in his first marriage and has never recovered from that, and has just got used to the status quo.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> I agree with this - it is difficult. Similar situation here, as you know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah - this is very good: 
would you go ‘to the end of the earth’ to provide her with sex on Saturdays only? (Or basically provide her with less frequent sex than you need?). If having less sex was as important for HER as having more sex to you...well, that’s where the logic falls apart. 

‘But how can she love me as much if she doesn’t desire me as much as I desire her?’

These thoughts and doubts are completely natural and I would lie if I said I didn’t have them too from time to time. The point is: HD partners use THEIR metric to determine how much THEY THINK their spouse loves them. The LD may be using a completely different metric. She might think ‘he’s only nice to me when I open my legs for him’.

The root of the problem is: even if the spouse TOLD you explicitly (not you specifically) what it is she needs from you (big ‘if’, because people often don’t want to appear needy): whether it’s emotional support, understanding, more involvement in her life etc etc, you (again, not you specifically) are very likely either not going to believe her or think to yourself ‘but I’m already giving her plenty of this, how come she is asking for more?’.
And this is EXACTLY what she thinks about sex.
We (myself included) just are so stuck in our own world and in our own heads and find it so difficult to relate to another mindset, that we end up using ourselves to reference everything else around us.
This was never so clear to me. Until I started reading TAM.

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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> She has already talked to him about it (she mentioned this in her first post), and he was pretty dismissive about her concerns.




That’s not how I read her post: he doesn’t want to pay $500 a month to have sex. 
Who here would?? Whether they can afford it or not it’s silly money. There may be other avenues to pursue.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Oh my goodness that has just bought back what happened with us and my husband in his first marriage. Its a very similar situation to the one you mention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep, there are people like that (like your husband’s first wife). BUT I wouldn’t immediately blame her ‘low sex drive’ for the root cause of the problem. I am sure it was a contributing factor. But to me, she sounds like a ****ty person who lacked empathy and made your husband feel worthless.

Can I ask you: if it was completely up to you (and your husband didn’t mind): would you have more or less sex with your husband than you are having now? (I presume only he initiates?)
Or if I ask it another way: if he wanted to take down the frequency a little, would you be ok with that?



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

john117 said:


> Sexual dysfunction issues are quite common but they're not an on-off type issue that either is there or is not.
> 
> Divorce is a multifaceted issue and rarely happens due to a single cause.
> 
> There's also event chains that further complicate the root cause, ie lack of intimacy then cheating then...




Ah, but that was a sub-point of my point:
People here often make out (ok, make IT out, not ‘make out’) as if ‘drive incompatibility’ is a ‘make or break’ issue and a lot of the advice is based on this (mis)information as a result. 
Again - that’s not the case. As you rightly noted, divorce rarely happens due to a single cause (unless that single cause is too grave).
It is possible that for many here it is a ‘grave issue’ and a big enough issue to spur other problems as a result.

But, you can’t argue it both ways!: that sex incompatibility is a either a make or break issue (and divorce statistics don’t reflect that). 
Or that divorce is facilitated by multiple issues (in which case sex incompatibility alone is not a big deal).


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> Oh dear...
> Everybody knows how to ‘play’ that game! Not all HD guys PUSH for sex precisely for these reasons: it’s first of all rude and inappropriate to do it immediately. And by the time it becomes more appropriate, the woman thinks it’s ‘out of passion’. (Which is true). Only morons ‘expect sex right away’.
> Hundreds of years of literature pretty much is all about ‘conquering the woman’s heart!’ (To get laid, in other words).


What is amazing is how many don't.

My point had nothing to do with drawing an inference form the guy being willing to wait a few dates before "pouncing". Yes, it may be that someone pretends not to be HD for a few dates in the hope that waiting for the 3rd or 4th date has a higher probability of resulting in sex than pouncing during the first meeting. And this higher probability of sex justifies the increased investment of time and energy. So you are correct that not pushing for sex during the first meeting provides no evidence as to whether the guy is HD or LD. And even having sex when she finally says "yes" is not much evidence. Plenty of LDs will say "yes" when the woman offers for the first time.

But I still assert that him saying "no" when she offers, or only exhibiting a tepid response to her "yes", is fairly strong evidence that the guy is LD. Are you suggesting that many HDs continue "pretending" to be LD after the woman starts consenting?



> Also the guys who DO like sex don’t have to ‘ogle’ wife’s hot friends  She doesn’t need to ‘accept’ any ‘bad’ for the greater good . She just needs to talk to her husband and work it out or see if there are any physical issues. Sometimes the mind boggles


She may be able to work out a compromise and get a HD to curb his instincts and control his behavior to promote a more harmonious relationship. But, again, I still believe that if he never displays this behavior in the first place and she never has to have "the talk", then if she has any inkling he is LD, she consider the likelihood the absence of his "bad" behavior is not his manner but his lack of libido.

Or to put it differently, I am not telling women to tolerate ogling or that they are obliged to say "yes" every time their husband requests sex. I am saying that needing to have "the talk" about good manners is not an unadulterated bad thing. And that not having to have "the talk" about good manners is not always a good thing.

But yes, if he has bad manners, have the talk.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> Ah - this is very good:
> would you go ‘to the end of the earth’ to provide her with sex on Saturdays only? (Or basically provide her with less frequent sex than you need?). If having less sex was as important for HER as having more sex to you...well, that’s where the logic falls apart.
> 
> ‘But how can she love me as much if she doesn’t desire me as much as I desire her?’
> ...


Interesting that you say this. Certainly, there's a bias from my POV.

However, I've spent the vast majority of my time in regards to this subject with my wife, trying to understand her. Her thoughts, motives, anything. It's not actually about me, believe it or not.

For me, it's not at all about frequency with her. Sure, I'd love to have a passionate wife who jumps me every single day. But in reality, that's a bit of a unicorn, anyway. Yes, those women (and men, of course) exist, but not in droves. I wouldn't even say I'm one of them. I'm a 'few times a week' guy.

I am perfectly happy with once or twice a week, in all honesty. Provided it's mutual. A little bit her, a little bit me. Maybe she wants it more than I do one day, or vice versa. You know - "normal".

From my side of things, I have done 90% of the compromising in this general area. As is usually the case in these situations, one person could literally do without. For weeks, months, forever. Not uncommon.

In my case, unlike _most_ others (not all) my wife likes, even loves, sex. When we have it. There hasn't been one single time where she wasn't involved, mentally or physically, or was just going through the motions, in 9+ years. It may start out "for me", but it definitely doesn't end up that way - ever. Once she gets into it, it's night and day. A complete 180. "Who are you and what have you done with my wife?". It's unexplainable, including by her.

But that's not enough - and although I feel badly saying that, considering I am having sex ~once a week (and good sex) while many others are not - there's no passion or intensity beforehand, or immediately after. It's physically satisfying in every way, but it's rarely emotionally or mentally satisfying.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think there is a critical difference between "wanting sex" and "only wanting sex". Between a man who enjoys doing all sorts of things with their partner, one of which is sex, and one who puts up with other things in order to get sex. 

Unfortunately early in a relationship its easy to fake interest in other things in order to get sex. This makes it very difficult for women to distinguish between these two very different cases. 


Even in a long term HD/LD relationship it can be difficult. The LD can get the impression that all the HD cares about is sex, when in reality to the HD other things are fine, but sex is what is missing, so it becomes critical. (A starving person *only* cares about food - but feed them and they care about lots of other things as well).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> What is amazing is how many don't.
> 
> My point had nothing to do with drawing an inference form the guy being willing to wait a few dates before "pouncing". Yes, it may be that someone pretends not to be HD for a few dates in the hope that waiting for the 3rd or 4th date has a higher probability of resulting in sex than pouncing during the first meeting. And this higher probability of sex justifies the increased investment of time and energy. So you are correct that not pushing for sex during the first meeting provides no evidence as to whether the guy is HD or LD. And even having sex when she finally says "yes" is not much evidence. Plenty of LDs will say "yes" when the woman offers for the first time.
> 
> But I still assert that him saying "no" when she offers, or only exhibiting a tepid response to her "yes", is fairly strong evidence that the guy is LD. Are you suggesting that many HDs continue "pretending" to be LD after the woman starts consenting?


Wouldn't that be funny: going through the whole relationship, saving up & pretending to be LD :wink2: (isn't that the story of your thread? :wink2: At least more recently.)
No, I wasn't really disagreeing with that particular point. Just that you can't really tell anything about anything much, until the relationship is well underway. And usually, well after about 6 months of living together...
Some assert that they do a lot of talking beforehand to ensure compatibility and bla bla but people will say all kinds of things to get what they want. Until you really _live_ with the person, you won't really know your partner's _real_ self, especially their sexual habits.



Holdingontoit said:


> She may be able to work out a compromise and get a HD to curb his instincts and control his behavior to promote a more harmonious relationship. But, again, I still believe that if he never displays this behavior in the first place and she never has to have "the talk", then if she has any inkling he is LD, she consider the likelihood the absence of his "bad" behavior is not his manner but his lack of libido.
> 
> Or to put it differently, I am not telling women to tolerate ogling or that they are obliged to say "yes" every time their husband requests sex. I am saying that needing to have "the talk" about good manners is not an unadulterated bad thing. And that not having to have "the talk" about good manners is not always a good thing.
> 
> But yes, if he has bad manners, have the talk.


I know what you meant 0 It just came out in a funny way: an HD is not the same as a sexual sociopath who can't stop looking at women and not able to control him/shimself. I am an HD but mainly around my wife. Or more precisely: I have a higher drive when she's around: I want her. She causes it to be higher. When I travel and am around other women, I think I act like a pretty normal person (even if a bit awkward, but not in a sexual way) and am not salivating at the sight of a nice pair. You made it sound like: "if you want to ensure your husband is going to have sex with you in the future, make sure that he acts like a sexual maniac when he's out and about"  
The problem is that if he displays those kinds of qualities, he might be 'frequent' in bed, but most probably not just with his wife  So it's a bit of a tossup: frequent sex versus herpes :scratchhead:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

alexm said:


> Interesting that you say this. Certainly, there's a bias from my POV.
> 
> However, I've spent the vast majority of my time in regards to this subject with my wife, trying to understand her. Her thoughts, motives, anything. It's not actually about me, believe it or not.
> 
> ...


We all have biases, not just you!
Have you ever thought that the very thing that makes you feel attracted to your wife and keeps your interests piqued in the first place is the fact that she is not that 'easily' available to you 24/7? (And that's just you: I know there are people here who suffer through hell not getting any at all).
It's the ying and yang: you agonize so much about something that may actually be a _good_ thing for you. Ok, if she swallowed some magic pill and jumped your bones every day: I bet it would feel amazing the first couple of times but after a while it's just gonna be: 'meh, I guess that's what a good relationship is supposed to be like. Now I could kill for a decent cup of coffee'. And find something else to agonize about. You have no idea how quickly people get used to 'good things' and start taking it for granted. What makes a relationship interesting and 'dynamic' are precisely those 'unevenesses' (within reason). 




alexm said:


> From my side of things, I have done 90% of the compromising in this general area. As is usually the case in these situations, one person could literally do without. For weeks, months, forever. Not uncommon.
> 
> In my case, unlike _most_ others (not all) my wife likes, even loves, sex. When we have it. There hasn't been one single time where she wasn't involved, mentally or physically, or was just going through the motions, in 9+ years. It may start out "for me", but it definitely doesn't end up that way - ever. Once she gets into it, it's night and day. A complete 180. "Who are you and what have you done with my wife?". It's unexplainable, including by her.


Yes, EXACTLY. Isn't that interesting and exciting? Uncovering a completely 'different' person? And it's down to YOUR efforts (since you are doing most of the 'compromising').
If 'passion and intensity' were available to you at the flick of a finger, you'd lose interest straight away - I guarantee you.
I think you mistake a good, 'working' thing in your relationship dynamic for something negative.
Your personality is never to be satisfied. I am the same. It's what keeps us going.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> But, you can’t argue it both ways!: that sex incompatibility is a either a make or break issue (and divorce statistics don’t reflect that).
> Or that divorce is facilitated by multiple issues (in which case sex incompatibility alone is not a big deal).


Good sex can mask underlying issues in a marriage or provide more tolerance or acceptance for the other partners behavior.

If sex incompatibility is an issue, then everything else is on the table all of a sudden. Tolerance or acceptance is diminished and the relationship is strained.

Eventually things go badly. Is sex the reason? Not in its own but as part of a bigger framework it is.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

john117 said:


> Good sex can mask underlying issues in a marriage or provide more tolerance or acceptance for the other partners behavior.
> 
> If sex incompatibility is an issue, then everything else is on the table all of a sudden. Tolerance or acceptance is diminished and the relationship is strained.
> 
> Eventually things go badly. Is sex the reason? Not in its own but as part of a bigger framework it is.



I understand - but then are you saying that sexual incompatibility is the root cause which basically has a knock on effect on everything else?
It comes back to my argument that there would be much higher divorce rates because some sexual incompatibility exists in 90%+ of all relationship to some degree or other so should have some spillover effect.

Either sexual incompatibility IS the cause (root cause) or multi-factorial reasons are responsible for divorces (including those, but not limited to, where sexual incompatibility is not playing any role) - what am I missing?

Surely there are MANY instances where couples divorce and sex doesn’t play ANY part? It might spill over into sex life but it wouldn’t have been CAUSED by it.

I think we are probably arguing which shade of grey it is. My point is simply that the odds of ‘fixing’ a sexually incompatible relationship are higher than suggested here. Not great but quite a bit higher.



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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Interesting discussion , I enjoy reading it.

My dating experience is limited in some ways and extensive in others. I didn't date abusive guys . My ex and I met very young and although in hindsight there were signs, I didn't have the maturity or the confidence to end it before marrying him so young . He was my first and only boyfriend until my 40s.

I dates over 30 men but I only slept with 4 of them, my husband included . Based on my experience, in my age group , I haven't found any guy with no sexual dysfunction. In fact , my husband was the best of all of them, I mean, he was normal and sex was good.

First guy I've dated for 4 months couldn't get it up enough for PIV . We did oral, on him, he wasn't doing oral on me. That wouldn't have worked at all.

Second guy was a good kisser but lost his erection every time we tried and then he got mad at me. Wouldn't do oral either.

Third guy was my one and only ONS. Looked like Channing Tatum and was 10 years younger than me. It was a hot encounter, he kept it up but he was selfish and I wouldn't have classify it as good sex. I'm glad I got to do that once in my life but I'd never do it again , it's overrated . 

So I came to believe that what's out there is...meh

Fourth guy was my husband. We were always having sex once a week and it was pretty good. I the beginning we would of course go more than once in a session. Yeah he lost erection a couple of times and maybe he wasn't rock hard like in his 20s but no major issues, except that indeed he wasn't intitiating much at all. I initiated the first sexual encounter and it was pretty clear to me he has indeed a severe fear of rejection.

I also think he got used to "taking care of himself ". But I don't consider myself HD. I think I'm on the LD side with the once a week requirement .

I just want to start the marriage with "good habits ". I get it's easier to masturbate and he did that for a long time and I don't want him to get the idea that now that we're married that's going to be the MO and that sex declines etc . I think not having that physical intimacy makes the partners grow apart . 

I'm waiting for the weekend to talk to him about it. 

Like some poster above says, it's not that I'm always horny as hell but I know it's important and once we are at it we both enjoy it. Once you get started it's good otherwise it's like exercise for some people, just doesn't seem worth to be bothered.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Either sexual incompatibility IS the cause (root cause) or multi-factorial reasons are responsible for divorces (including those, but not limited to, where sexual incompatibility is not playing any role) - what am I missing?
> 
> Surely there are MANY instances where couples divorce and sex doesn’t play ANY part? It might spill over into sex life but it wouldn’t have been CAUSED by it.
> 
> I think we are probably arguing which shade of grey it is. My point is simply that the odds of ‘fixing’ a sexually incompatible relationship are higher than suggested here. Not great but quite a bit higher.


Generally speaking, few things happen as a result of a single action or root cause. And we humans are pretty good in rationalizing or not rationalizing things. 

Think of money. Nobody will divorce openly just because their spouse is not earning enough. But they'll be very good in manufacturing or amplifying issues (out of thin air even) to justify their divorce decision. 

At the heart of it is the root cause of the incompatibility and what's done to address it.

I don't buy the "she likes sex just not with you" part in most cases. I'm more convinced the incompatibility exists either knowingly (intentional) or unknowingly (ignorance). Ignorance is fixable, but intentional is much harder to fix.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

People vary, but for me our sex life sort of sets an overall background level of happiness. When we are having good sex, I'm generally happy. I'm content even if there are other minor difficulties in life. Simply going for a walk in the park with my wife seems very nice. I smile a lot. I feel like I'm in love.

When we have little or not sex, I'm just generally less happy. There are still things that make me happy, but it takes more. I feel like I am living with a room mate / co-worker. We may have a good time together, but it just doesn't feel the same. It doesn't feel like love. 






john117 said:


> Good sex can mask underlying issues in a marriage or provide more tolerance or acceptance for the other partners behavior.
> 
> If sex incompatibility is an issue, then everything else is on the table all of a sudden. Tolerance or acceptance is diminished and the relationship is strained.
> 
> Eventually things go badly. Is sex the reason? Not in its own but as part of a bigger framework it is.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

That's part of it.

Now escalate to extreme and there's nothing to be done. No compromise. 

Eventually one or both reach the IDGAF stage and the marriage is toast.

Was it sex? As much as that random assassination in Yugoslavia started WW1.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

john117 said:


> Generally speaking, few things happen as a result of a single action or root cause. And we humans are pretty good in rationalizing or not rationalizing things.
> 
> Think of money. Nobody will divorce openly just because their spouse is not earning enough. But they'll be very good in manufacturing or amplifying issues (out of thin air even) to justify their divorce decision.
> 
> ...




Sometimes people don’t really know themselves what it is they really feel. They rationalise with hindsight and create a narrative to make sense of their own feelings which is like a soup with no clear shapes - I think a lot more goes on a subconscious, biological level. They sometimes don’t want or can’t accept what they feel: for example if they are simply not as attracted to their partner.
On the other hand, you have to be careful not to assign conscious intentions and negative motives where none might exist.
Sometimes giving them the benefit of the doubt is the healthier approach.

Otherwise it’s like: ‘That robot vacuum cleaner is making really mean noises. It keeps following me around everywhere trying to clean where I’m standing. I bet it’s just waiting there for me to trip, fall down and live off my insurance policy.’ 
Sometimes they do things because they were ‘programmed’ to do them a certain way. They don’t always mean harm.
This is also ‘not intentional’. And this is also hard to fix...Because it involves first fixing your own perception. And god forbid, I’m more stubborn than my wife to fix myself 


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

alexm said:


> This is one of the biggest mistakes people make - comparing one partner to another, and making that the deciding factor.
> 
> Don't let your previous marital experience cloud your vision. Yes, he's _better_, but it's still not a great match.
> 
> I can tell you in all honesty, my ex wife started dating me because (and she even said this) - I wasn't like the other guys she had dated before. Both in personality, and in looks. Initially, she _was_ attracted to these different qualities. She had a type she was hot for, but because she had bad experiences with that type, she switched it up. Went with the opposite. Worked great for many years, until she left me for the EXACT type she had always dated before she met me.


Memories fade.

Good memories fade faster.

Leaving the memories that look good, taste bad, are wastefully bad.

Are wishfully bad, wistfully bad.

Hence, when looking for the 'good' in a person, your current mate, you see only bad, the good forgotten.

Your' EXW settled down when she picked you.

Because bad was on a higher level in her disheveled mind.

And that, in part, explains, justifies the compatibility factor that one should consider when picking a mate.
And that, in full, explains the key and the lock. Pick a lock that fits your key, doing so unlocks your fate.

For good, for bad, or for naught, Aye-ther. 
Eye-her :grin2:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You stop giving them the benefit of the doubt once the explanations for a miserable intimate life go from believable to possible to plausible to fairytale.

Most people tend to believe such explanations until it's too late.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

john117 said:


> You stop giving them the benefit of the doubt once the explanations for a miserable intimate life go from believable to possible to plausible to fairytale.
> 
> Most people tend to believe such explanations until it's too late.



Yes I can see how this can happen in some cases. If a person is deceiving you deliberately and continuously, you have to find ways to bust their lies or they have to pay with consequences.
Wouldn’t that be a character trait?
I guess it depends what kind of ‘fairy tale’ excuses we are talking about. Headaches or ‘the dog ate my homework’ type.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Colt_blue said:


> I dates over 30 men but I only slept with 4 of them, my husband included . Based on my experience, in my age group , *I haven't found any guy with no sexual dysfunction*. In fact , my husband was the best of all of them, I mean, he was normal and sex was good.


Strange. I presume you have had more than ONSs with those guys. I seem to remember that it was always difficult for me in the beginning of any relationship (I had little flings in school but no sex till I met my wife) and every time I had 'issues'. I think it was due to 'performance anxieties'. I later learnt that there's a hormone, that 'binds' the couple together more and more, the more time they spend together. (Another reason why your thinking is right in terms of having regular intimacy as being quite important).
I think my 'issues' could have been mistaken for 'dysfunction' if it was with someone I only tried it a few times with.
After I became more comfortable and 'into' my wife (sorry about the pun), I never had a single issue in 20 years (perhaps once or twice when I had too much to drink or not slept for a few days). Future may be different though.
I could never perform in a ONS...too much pressure! Always thought something was wrong with me.



Colt_blue said:


> First guy I've dated for 4 months couldn't get it up enough for PIV . We did oral, on him, he wasn't doing oral on me. That wouldn't have worked at all.
> 
> Second guy was a good kisser but lost his erection every time we tried and then he got mad at me. Wouldn't do oral either.
> 
> ...


I don't know how it is with your husband but I find with porn, I take much longer (and am much more bored). Unless it's a serious addiction that is adversely affecting the relationship, normal porn usage shouldn't have an adverse affect on him (studies confirm this, contrary to what is often said here on TAM).


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Best excuse ever: the Great Vermin Infestation of 2015

Wife finds a hole in a sweater possibly caused by a moth. Proceeds to spend $400 dry cleaning all her clothes and stressed out because of two $10k each silk carpets out in the open.

Declines intimacy because she's preoccupied with the moths. 

Let's just say that moth jokes are quite common at home


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

inmyprime said:


> We all have biases, not just you!
> Have you ever thought that the very thing that makes you feel attracted to your wife and keeps your interests piqued in the first place is the fact that she is not that 'easily' available to you 24/7? (And that's just you: I know there are people here who suffer through hell not getting any at all).
> It's the ying and yang: you agonize so much about something that may actually be a _good_ thing for you. Ok, if she swallowed some magic pill and jumped your bones every day: I bet it would feel amazing the first couple of times but after a while it's just gonna be: 'meh, I guess that's what a good relationship is supposed to be like. Now I could kill for a decent cup of coffee'. And find something else to agonize about. You have no idea how quickly people get used to 'good things' and start taking it for granted. What makes a relationship interesting and 'dynamic' are precisely those 'unevenesses' (within reason).
> 
> ...


Honestly, I had ~14 years with a woman who had a 'normal' drive, and would initiate just as much as me.

The sex was bad to okay, but it didn't matter, oddly enough. I mean, it _did_, but...

Now I have great sex (not complaining) but no real interest in actually going there.

It's easy to say "you always want what you don't have", but TBH, I was perfectly fine with the first scenario. Sure, I wanted better sex, but it didn't keep me up at night.

I'm built in such a way that I much prefer the first one.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

john117 said:


> Best excuse ever: the Great Vermin Infestation of 2015
> 
> Wife finds a hole in a sweater possibly caused by a moth. Proceeds to spend $400 dry cleaning all her clothes and stressed out because of two $10k each silk carpets out in the open.
> 
> ...




What happened after the moths...’left’? Anything at all? Or have the ants began pouring in?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> What happened after the moths...’left’? Anything at all? Or have the ants began pouring in?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Field mice.

(Like, one mouse the size of my thumb, that was caught in a trap and released far away. Pity we didn't have the cat at the time  )

It's like a fellow PhD at work who was fired after HR noticed he had a 50% chance of calling in sick when our boss was on a business trip. 

No rocket science.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Colt_blue said:


> I dates over 30 men but I only slept with 4 of them, my husband included . Based on my experience, in my age group ,* I haven't found any guy with no sexual dysfunction*. In fact , my husband was the best of all of them, I mean, he was normal and sex was good.
> 
> First guy I've dated for 4 months *couldn't get it up enough* for PIV . We did oral, on him, he wasn't doing oral on me. That wouldn't have worked at all.
> 
> ...


I'm going off on an instinctive tangent here, but: Something in the way this post reads makes me wonder if you are inducing some degree of performance anxiety-related aversion in your partners by focusing (subconsciously or overtly) on their erections and/or their "failure" to achieve them on cue. Dwelling on the issue or taking it personally are good ways to establish an undesirable pattern of self-consciousness.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

I don't think so it's a bit far fetched to accuse me of theee men's sexual dysfunction.

The first guy, whom I dated 4 month said he had some kind of a benign tumor in his penis. Whether he was telling the truth or not , he knew he had a problem and it was physical.

The second guy , I think it was alcohol. I didn't talk to him about his erections. He just had some issues. He was upset about it though and he started to yell at me. "Stop refund me that!!!( I was reading something from my phone , something my son had sent ). I don't care about that! Talk about my problem !!!!" Jeez, I guess this would have been an abusive one . I left first chance I got and never spoke to the crazy again.

The third guy was young , 31 , and didn't have any issues. He was hot AF . He's not in the same demographic.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

I don't know how to edit. The guy yelled stop reading that not refund .


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

In other news we had sex this morning. Not PIV due to my problem but I'm happy.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

I over time developed a fantasy and asked my wife if we could explore that and she gave me a flat no so I dropped it and never brought it up again. This caused unexpected sexual problems for me the biggest was that I found sex with my wife to be boring. I ten got an AOL account (they have tons of chat rooms) on aol I found women who were all to happy to explore my fantasy with me (this was online only and also on the phone). I never met anyone face to face anyway I eventually outgrew or became no longer interested in the fantasy. Some would say this is cheating but I don’t give a rats rump what others think. Anyway I have a good marriage 30+ years but although we have sex it could be so much more fun. 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Colt_blue said:


> In other news we had sex this morning. Not PIV due to my problem but I'm happy.


Good thing you haven't left him yet then :wink2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

David51 said:


> I over time developed a fantasy and asked my wife if we could explore that and she gave me a flat no so I dropped it and never brought it up again. This caused unexpected sexual problems for me the biggest was that I found sex with my wife to be boring. I ten got an AOL account (they have tons of chat rooms) on aol I found women who were all to happy to explore my fantasy with me (this was online only and also on the phone). I never met anyone face to face anyway I eventually outgrew or became no longer interested in the fantasy. Some would say this is cheating but I don’t give a rats rump what others think. Anyway I have a good marriage 30+ years but although we have sex it could be so much more fun.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


If I develop a fantasy, I don't tend to give up until we at least try it. If she does not like it, fair enough but at least try it, for ****'s sake! (I meant for the sake of a good ****!)
I can be a real pain in the butt. 
But don't want to give away fantasies...


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* inmyprime
If I develop a fantasy, I don't tend to give up until we at least try it. If she does not like it, fair enough but at least try it, for ****'s sake! (I meant for the sake of a good ****!)*

OK try it. Maybe your W doesn't like it and ONLY objects and that is the end of it.

Some W's resent the H for asking and make life very difficult if he does anything that is part of the fantasy. Some W's are OK with fantasy and some think a fantasy is a major negative life altering event.

David51, I am happy to hear your life got better after talking to someone about your fantasy. It doesn't always take a licensed sex therapist to work on some issues.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Colt_blue said:


> I'm in my 40s and my new husband is in his 50s. I'm not very high drive , I do ok with once a week. This is our second marriage , for both of us.
> 
> In my first marriage sex wasn't a problem, on the contrary it went great and we had similar drives , once a week normally , once a day on vacation, nothing changed over the approx 15 years of marriage.
> 
> ...




- Us guys are in our sexual (test) primes in our teens and 20's and that's it for us.


- When we hit our 30's we start going downhill.


- By our early 40's, we've already lost about 25% of our testosterone. That's a lot.


- Our early 50's and its much more than 25% loss. 


- Solution is to go to the family doctor and get regular testosterone shots and start going to the gym. Within a short time, your hubby will have that youthful energy, sex drive and morning wood once again. But the key is getting regular test shots and weight training. If he does neither, it will only get much worse.....


- As a man, its his responsibility to take care of business!!!


- I'm now in my early 40's and my energy levels have dropped a lot, no more morning wood and my sex drive has also gone down. I am on many natural supplements which sorta work but I am ditching them all for HGH this December. My results should be amazing and energy levels back to teen levels and sex drive and morning wood once again.


- Ladies hit their sexual peaks in their 30's, maybe 40's menopause.


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## Colt_blue (Apr 4, 2017)

Update (not good) after 2 years. 

At first, things improved and it worked OK for one year. I reduced my "demands" to every other week instead of weekly. I was pretty happy. Actually, I was very happy. Then, end of 2018, things started going downhill. H changed his medication and apparently everything stopped working. Like, completely standstill. No erections whatsoever. I don't remember how many times we tried to have sex in 2019. Maybe twice or three times? 

After about 6-8 months, he did go to the Dr. and he got a prescription. I was so happy. He actually started asking when should we try it and seemed excited about it, which made me very happy, because I was the one to initiate most of the time before. So here is my H finally asking when should we have sex!! Wow! 

We tried the prescription, but it didn't work. He pleased me another way but he was very disappointed. That was I believe a couple of months ago. I had asked him if we could just do "this" (i.e. no PIV) and he said "anytime". We haven't tried again since and I haven't initiated the no-PIV sex either, I just gave up. 

It's physical and he's not doing enough about it. He is trying to improve his eating, but efforts are on and off, he can't stay on the wagon. He doesn't seem to be able to stick with exercise.

So I guess I did end up in a sexless marriage afterall. I could not avoid it. I'll not leave. My libido went way down too, and I haven't had a period in several months. I love my husband and sex doesn't seem to be worth going through a divorce and hurting everyone around me.

At least I'm not young and I had great sex with my ex husband all through my youth and sex was good with my current H for 3 years, so I can't say I never had good sex in my life. Now I'm shelving it. Depressing...because I'm not THAT old, but it is what it is. Maybe in the next life I'll get it all right: good man and good sex. This life, I could only figure out how to get either or.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

CuddleBug said:


> -
> 
> - I'm now in my early 40's and my energy levels have dropped a lot, no more morning wood and my sex drive has also gone down. I am on many natural supplements which sorta work but I am ditching them all for HGH this December. My results should be amazing and energy levels back to teen levels and sex drive and morning wood once again.


As an aside... HGH does not equal testosterone therapy. They are two completely different things. Taking HGH will not raise your testosterone levels... much like the over the counter supplements. 

HGH does work well when combined with TRT, if your bloodwork calls for it.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Colt_blue said:


> Update (not good) after 2 years.
> 
> At first, things improved and it worked OK for one year. I reduced my "demands" to every other week instead of weekly. I was pretty happy. Actually, I was very happy. Then, end of 2018, things started going downhill. H changed his medication and apparently everything stopped working. Like, completely standstill. No erections whatsoever. I don't remember how many times we tried to have sex in 2019. Maybe twice or three times?
> 
> ...


Everyone is different. I couldn't do once/week and need 3 times/week minimum for me to be happy at age 45. I could go daily if I wanted to (and I do!), so I have to periodically assist myself in that area. Physically, I'm far from where I want to be at this point in time - which I must conclude that your husband's health issues must be really bad if he's at the ED stage. Did he ever have muscle when he was younger? I suppose he may not have had a lot of extra test in his body throughout his life. He may need to make sure that he's getting actual testosterone for his hormone treatment and on top of that he should be doing a weight lifting routine to try to build muscle. That might help with keeping his testosterone levels a little higher. 

If he's suffered from high BP for awhile and he's been on those more harmful BP meds, there may not be much option left to help on that front.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Colt_blue said:


> He says meh it's ok I don't have any testosterone. I asked and did you talk to your dr about it? He says yeah she said I'd be a good candidate for treatment but it would cost me an extra 500/month so I didn't do it. What? So he knows there is a problem but doesn't want to fix it. Just to clarify: we can afford it.



I had/have low T and got bio identical hormone pellets from a wellness center that doesn’t take insurance. $1000 every 5-6 months. I tried insurance-provided HRT but it was worthless. 




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