# Is manipulation a form of abuse....



## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi All,

Just wanted some opinions on whether manipulation was a form of abuse. for example: I rarely go out with my girlfriends and when I do I give my husband days in advance notice just so we are on the same page, He'll say "no problem, go have fun" and when I go I usually call the kids to say goodnight then when he comes on the phone he starts with the woe is me and huffing and puffing, and the convo usually ends with a solemn "ya bye" then my night is ruined because I sit and worry all nite what I have to deal with when I get home. Even last weekend I get home and the neighbour says "hey heard you had a girls nite and H stayed home to take care of boys" like he broadcasts it!! this is one of many things that I've been dealing with for 10 years. any opinions would be great.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

My family tree is populated with some absolute master manipulators and I would have to say yes it can be a form of abuse. Manipulation is fundamentally using a persons emotions against them to get the result you want. The really good ones manage to manipulate themselves into believing that they know better than you what's best for you so their manipulation is justified because in their mind it's in your best interest - regardless of if it's what you want or not.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

lovemybabies said:


> my night is ruined because I sit and worry all nite what I have to deal with when I get home. Even last weekend I get home and the neighbour says "hey heard you had a girls nite and H stayed home to take care of boys" like he broadcasts it!! this is one of many things that I've been dealing with for 10 years.


Since you've been dealing with this for 10 years, I would suggest you give yourself permission not to worry about it at all when he starts playing his game. Have a good time in spite of him. You aren't specific about what you have to deal with when you get home, but set a boundary. Boundaries are for you, not him. In other words, simply tell him when you get home that you had a great time. If he starts in on you with the woe-is-me act, ignore him. Easier said than done, I know. But I became quite adept at ignoring this sort of nonsense.

So let him broadcast to the neighbors that he has to stay home with the kids while you have a night out with your friends. What they think is their problem. If your husband sees he's not getting under your skin with this nonsense, he'll have to try another tactic, or he'll just learn to deal with it.

You deserve some time out with your gf's now and then. Obviously, even though he says he's all for it, he really isn't. Not only manipulative, but childish. Heck, tell him to say what he means and mean what he says.


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

the problem is I'm a total people pleaser (reading the book the disease to please) and wow, I avoid confrontation at all costs, even when I talk myself up to having a conversation with my H about our issues I'm almost physically ill. For years I've avoided all confrontation with him because I'd rather keep the peace then say something even though i know I'm right. He'll even say things if he's running late "I guess eat without me" it's little things like that that he knows I will feel bad about and I'll wait on dinner, I'll feed the kids and wait for him to eat my dinner (I know these things seem so insignificant but so many through the day add up). I'm working on speaking up about things but i go crazy inside because he's always wanting me to feel sorry for him. He got fired 3.5 years ago bc of a personality conflict with his boss and didn't work for 2.5 years (i supported the family the whole time) and now that he's had a job for a year he wants me to feel sorry that he's on shift work (just like a child) if he had kept his mouth shut he'd have that job that suited our family more. It's all these little things that are getting under my skin and when I do speak up the odd time he asks why I'm being a b!tch!


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

lovemybabies said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just wanted some opinions on whether manipulation was a form of abuse. for example: I rarely go out with my girlfriends and when I do I give my husband days in advance notice just so we are on the same page, He'll say "no problem, go have fun" and when I go I usually call the kids to say goodnight then when he comes on the phone he starts with the woe is me and huffing and puffing, and the convo usually ends with a solemn "ya bye" then my night is ruined because I sit and worry all nite what I have to deal with when I get home. Even last weekend I get home and the neighbour says "hey heard you had a girls nite and H stayed home to take care of boys" like he broadcasts it!! this is one of many things that I've been dealing with for 10 years. any opinions would be great.


With all due respect, I'm not seeing manipulation here. What I see is immature behavior in not following thought with one's agreements. When your h agreed that you could go out then he also implicitly agreed to be OK with it and not to bother you about it. While it is entirely understandable that someone might have mixed feelings about something they have previously agreed to, we would hope that they could summon enough self control to keep their mouths shut about it, unless they are suffering a severe hardship. Everybody these days wants to see abuse everywhere they look, I guess because it's a hot button label that give them the power to judge, convict and punish unilaterally without restriction. What I see here is immaturity and lack of self control.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

That and if you see that your being manipulated - well you're not really being manipulated then are you?? At that point you're making the decision to conform or go along with it - as the OP just admitted in always seeking to avoid confrontation.

Lovemybabies - you need to communicate. I suspect that one of the issues you have is that you want to avoid confrontation so badly that you have to get really worked up in order to say anything. Consequently, when you do finally open your mouth you're so agitated that you come across as flying off the handle and out of control. You must learn to express yourself calmly, clearly and rationally. To do this you will have to learn to speak up before you're over the edge. 

Likely over the years your H has learned to simply dismiss your efforts to communicate as outburst because that's how they look from the outside because your so emotionally wrapped up at that point you can't communicate effectively. Granted he's not doing real well in the communication department either with what you've described above, so the two of you sit down and agree to talk - without judgement and without emotion and see if you can find some common ground.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> The really good ones manage to manipulate themselves into believing that they know better than you what's best for you so their manipulation is justified because in their mind it's in your best interest - regardless of if it's what you want or not.


Stop talking about my wife!


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> With all due respect, I'm not seeing manipulation here. What I see is immature behavior in not following thought with one's agreements.


:iagree:

He is behaving in a very passive aggressive manner.


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## kekel1123 (Aug 17, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> With all due respect, I'm not seeing manipulation here. What I see is immature behavior in not following thought with one's agreements. When our h agreed that you could go out then he also implicitly agreed to be OK with it and not to bother you about it. While it is entirely understandable that someone might have mixed feelings about something they have previously agreed to, we would hope that they could summon enough self control to keep their mouths shut about it, unless they are suffering a severe hardship. Everybody these days wants to see abuse everywhere they look, I guess because it's a hot button label that give them the power to judge, convict and punish unilaterally without restriction. What I see here is immaturity and lack of self control.


:iagree: Very well said!


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

lovemybabies said:


> the problem is I'm a total people pleaser (reading the book the disease to please) and wow, I avoid confrontation at all costs, even when I talk myself up to having a conversation with my H about our issues I'm almost physically ill. For years I've avoided all confrontation with him because I'd rather keep the peace then say something even though i know I'm right. He'll even say things if he's running late "I guess eat without me" it's little things like that that he knows I will feel bad about and I'll wait on dinner, I'll feed the kids and wait for him to eat my dinner (I know these things seem so insignificant but so many through the day add up). I'm working on speaking up about things but i go crazy inside because he's always wanting me to feel sorry for him. He got fired 3.5 years ago bc of a personality conflict with his boss and didn't work for 2.5 years (i supported the family the whole time) and now that he's had a job for a year he wants me to feel sorry that he's on shift work (just like a child) if he had kept his mouth shut he'd have that job that suited our family more. It's all these little things that are getting under my skin and when I do speak up the odd time he asks why I'm being a b!tch!


The first, easiest and most effective thing you can do here is speak up directly regarding your feelings about things that affect you. Remember to use sentences that start with "I" like you have shared with us. If your h responds badly, let him do it but don't let it stop you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

At least you admit you have an issue with being a "people pleaser" and are trying to do something about it. Peace-at-any-price takes it toll on the person trying to enforce it the most, and YOU are that person. Like ten_year_hubby pointed out, this is more a case of immaturity than manipulation.

This continues because you allow him to get to you. Now it's your issue and not his. We can only be manipulated, abused, used, whatever, if we allow it. Like I said, to heck with him.

Start allowing yourself to have a good time. Having a peaceful home is great, but look at the price you are paying to have it that way - too high, IMO. Confrontation doesn't need to be a bad thing; you don't need to get into a screaming match. However, you have the right to be assertive.

Ever considered IC to figure out why you have such a need to please? Sounds like there are some old issues/ways of not communicating your feelings that are from the distant past.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Acorn said:


> :iagree:
> 
> He is behaving in a very passive aggressive manner.


And it seems to have worked somewhat up to this point. The guy acts like a big baby and the op needs to tell him she wants an adult man running the house while she's gone please.


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

thanks all, and you're all very right, immaturity is the culprit and I'm allowing it. I do feel I have 3 children and I'm exhausted. This acting like a child is not an attractive quality amongst everything else. I know I can't change anyone I have to change myself. I guess when I try to be assertive he sees it as aggressive. He pouts and complains about everything, he doesn't go out with friends (even though I encourage him to do so) he tells me his priority is his boys not his friends, i guess to make me feel like a bad mother for going out once a month...if that...and then when he's with them he plops on a movie and goes outside to smoke and drink coffee. He is a very good hands on father but needs to be praised for what he does. do you think this behaviour can change? he's 40 years old for goodness sakes, time to grow up...both of us it seems.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

lovemybabies said:


> do you think this behaviour can change? he's 40 years old for goodness sakes, time to grow up...both of us it seems.


I think he can change but he'd have to do it for himself.

He has to want to change, and even if he does, you and he have established this dynamic over time... changing it would also take time. 

The good news is that changing yourself will force the change in dynamic.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Its called emotional blackmail. And yes...its very real and devastating. Its done with the intent to have you second guessing yourself...with the intent to have the same exact reaction u described having.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Stop calling to say goodnight to the kids. Tell them beforehand you won't be there so kiss them then.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And what's up with the whole idea that when moms are away, dads babysit?  He's their father! Holy crap.

DO NOT feel guilty. He sounds like he has abandonment issues as well. From now on, just tell him you're going out, say bye to the kids, and don't look back until you get home.


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

i'm starting to make changes as little as they are I just have to stop feeling guilty. Even going to a bookstore for an hour to pick up the disease to please book he made me feel bad. I let him, I know....I had major anxiety coming home with the book cuz I knew he'd ask what I bought and this time I talked myself up to not hide it and so sure enough he asked so I said "i got a self help book to let me figure out why i do certain things" and he just walked out of the room. I now make sure I don't hide the book, and to date he's never asked me about it.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

lovemybabies said:


> I know I can't change anyone I have to change myself. I guess when I try to be assertive he sees it as aggressive.
> do you think this behaviour can change? he's 40 years old for goodness sakes, time to grow up...both of us it seems.


He will surely change as you do. Express yourself frequently and directly using sentences that begin with "I". Being a people pleaser is a common characteristic of firstborn children. It's only bad when it is taken to extreme


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