# Terrible MC... - Rant -



## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Everyone said she was a rug sweeper, I denied it. I wanted it to work. Yesterday we fired her. I've had two major breakdowns, my mom and friend were here at 3 in the morning and my mom was ready to take me into the psych unit. During this time all of the LIES she was telling me came out and my friend could have probably laid her out if she had been here. 

She had been telling me if I can't "get over this" my husband is going to leave me or cheat on me again ( which totally goes against that she had been saying he did this in a black out), she was making ME the problem instead of the victim. She was telling me that if he keeps trying to "swoop in and save me" he was going to get to the point where he'd leave me because he would get sick of it, and that he needed to stop talking to me, especially when I'm upset because he just makes it worse... She told him to stop answering my questions about things that happened that night. She would tell me to put all of my problems in a "box" and bring it to her, but when I came in all she ever did was tell me what was wrong with me, said I couldn't get past any of this because of other problems I have... It's been 8 weeks since I found out the person I trusted most cheated on me! IT TAKES TIME!

So we came to the point where I say John I'm really sad, he lays there and doesn't say anything offer to hold me or anything.. so I feel like he doesn't care and I end up freaking out.

He was listening to her and no me. She was trying to give me diagnoses that I don't have... all the time she is sweet talking him and telling me she doesn't know how he puts up with me! I'm not a high maintenance person, I don't require a lot, I generally take care of myself. I personally think that maybe she had some alternative motives with us other than 'saving' our marriage, or at least with my husband. 

I talked to my instructor, who referred me to another nursing instructor who told me she's heard terrible things about her, said she's never heard of her getting results and she's very harsh... Like our insurance would only pay for two of the sessions, but not mine ( she wasn't covered under my insurance, but was under his) and she wouldn't give us a discount or anything for the one we had to pay in full with cash... Today I was so relieved to not go into see her today. 

With the referrals I have I'm calling around today. I once again feel hope, instead of feeling like we're doomed. I can't believe I put up with this for so long... I let her put me down for so long.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Oh, I forgot to add that when my mom called her at 230 in the morning unsure what to do with me because I'm freaking out to the point I'm puking all over ( isn't reality grand?) she tells me to "put this in the box" and tells me I don't need to go to the psych unit, then turns around and gives my mom the number to it... the next day... NOTHING! She doesn't call or text to see if I'm alive or not. I'm sorry that's just wrong, as a person who's supposed to be helping people... that's wrong.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

This post is not making sense to me. I know that some counselors do not see the value of digging up the dirt. What lies? Did the counselor lie to you?

If the couselor is saying that you have problems then at least listen to what she said. You got rid of her. OK. But what was she saying your problems are and what was she diagnosing you with? Sometimes we the victims can make matters worse. I did by letting my drinking and anger get out of control.

Now find another MC and move forward. But, at least listen to what your former one said and if there is any validity to it then own it. If not, just rack it up to a pis* poor one who did not know what they are talking about.


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## TorontoBoyWest (May 1, 2012)

Was this MC religiously affiliated?

This reminds me of Juicer's visit from his "pastor".

Kick her to the curb pronto, IMO. You need to heal, not be told you are the bad guy. You know who the bad guy is in all of this...

Don't be swayed.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Riven said:


> Oh, I forgot to add that when my mom called her at 230 in the morning unsure what to do with me because I'm freaking out to the point I'm puking all over ( isn't reality grand?) she tells me to "put this in the box" and tells me I don't need to go to the psych unit, then turns around and gives my mom the number to it... the next day... NOTHING! She doesn't call or text to see if I'm alive or not. I'm sorry that's just wrong, as a person who's supposed to be helping people... that's wrong.


I am not sure but again this is not making sense. I am a professional counselor and I would not like being called in the early morning because one of my clients is freaking out. There is nothing I could do, seriously, except refer them to a hospital or the suicide hotline. I got a call a few weeks ago when one of my clients was threatening suicide, I kept him on the line until he handed the phone to his father, I told his father what he needed to to, his father took him to the hospital and had him admitted. But honestly there is nothing I could have done if he had not gone and found his father. Had he hung up on me he could have killed himself. 


Why did your mother call your MC when you were in crisis at 2:30 in the morning? Someone in your state should have been taken to the hospital. This does not make any sense at all to me.
And why does your marriage counselor need to follow up with you the next day? It seems to me that you are expecting way too much from your MC. You needed a crisis counselor(IMO) and who is going to pay for the MC's time? 

Like I said, this is not making sense to me.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

She didn't push any religion on us, I practice Buddhism and my husband is also not Christian.... 

The lies were things like her trying to diagnose me with border line personality, and when I read the book about she gave me, it was nothing like me, in anyway. If either of us have borderline it's my husband and he's even said that. She kept comparing me to her... she would say " I understand that you feel like you deserve this" and I don't, and I never said I do. Pain from being cheated on is not caused by any "problems" I have. As for me, I don't drink but maybe once social drink a year, I don't smoke, never done illegal drugs, honor student, the most terrible childhood trauma came from a divorced family where I basically raised myself. I'm stronger for it, but I have feelings that "I'm not good enough" which moves me into the overachiever perfectionist category aka I'm co-dependent. 

There was tons of "he doesn't know why", "you'll never get an answer", "he's hurting terribly"... never really dealing with the pain. I feel better right now not being in her office today than I have in 8 weeks since this started.

Left a message for the #1 referred MC from the gal, and hopefully he'll be able to work us in!


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Thornburg, you actually sound like our MC.

You did not wonder if that person was okay? I'm in nursing, and I wonder how my pts are doing all of the time. My mom called her because she didn't know what to do and didn't know who else to call. I truly believe if it wasn't for that MC, I wouldn't have been in crisis in the first place... I would stress out about being upset so badly that it would throw me into a terrible cycle. *Because she told me if I was upset he would leave me.* That's bull**** flat out. 

Do you also tell people to bottle up their problems instead of dealing with them? Do you blame their pain from their husband cheating on them on their own insecurities and tell them they have problems that they don't have? Basically saying this wouldn't hurt if you didn't have YOUR problems... 

And believe me... we pay out our ass for her time. I work in medical, I know that there are people who work because they enjoy what they do, and people who work because they enjoy the money from what they do. I can guarantee you the one who enjoys what they do is going to do a better job, so we're going to find one of them instead.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

I am not a counselor but I don't believe the betrayed spouse should be blamed by the counselor for things the cheating spouse did. Sure, there are problems in any marriage but when you are dealing with betrayal I believe that is the first issue that has to be solved before addressing old problems. I think a lot of times the 'old' problems are rewritten history the cheating spouse is feeding to the counselor. 
If you are not comfortable with your counselor you should dump her. It isn't always about what the counselor says, I believe the patient must be comfortable and have a certain level of trust with the counselor in order for progress to begin.
Good luck and hang in there.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> I am not sure but again this is not making sense. I am a professional counselor and I would not like being called in the early morning because one of my clients is freaking out. There is nothing I could do, seriously, except refer them to a hospital or the suicide hotline. I got a call a few weeks ago when one of my clients was threatening suicide, I kept him on the line until he handed the phone to his father, I told his father what he needed to to, his father took him to the hospital and had him admitted. But honestly there is nothing I could have done if he had not gone and found his father. Had he hung up on me he could have killed himself.
> 
> 
> Why did your mother call your MC when you were in crisis at 2:30 in the morning? Someone in your state should have been taken to the hospital. This does not make any sense at all to me.
> ...


Thorburn:

Of course there was something you can do. I have a brother with PTSD from the war and He calls threatening suicide frequently. 

What do I do? I talk him down. I ask him point blank if is planning to kill himself. I tell him he has no clue that things will be better on the other side, if there is another side. 

I keep him on the phone until his serotonin levels stabilize and the suicide ideation passes. 

I researched what to do when someone calls threatening suicide. 

Also, there are many studies that show that people commit suicide during a brief stress induced drop in Serotonin. 

Hence, if you can keep the person on the phone talking long enough, their serotonin levels go back up to a normal level. 

Do no counselors take emergency calls anymore for their patients?

As the saying goes: Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary crisis. 

If you can move the person out of the crisis mindset, then the suicide ideation goes with it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Lone Star said:


> I am not a counselor but I don't believe the betrayed spouse should be blamed by the counselor for things the cheating spouse did. Sure, there are problems in any marriage but when you are dealing with betrayal I believe that is the first issue that has to be solved before addressing old problems. I think a lot of times the 'old' problems are rewritten history the cheating spouse is feeding to the counselor.
> If you are not comfortable with your counselor you should dump her. It isn't always about what the counselor says, I believe the patient must be comfortable and have a certain level of trust with the counselor in order for progress to begin.
> Good luck and hang in there.


I agree. 

The BS should not be blamed. Divorce or counseling prior to the affair was the moral ground, not cheating. 

I think too few counselors tell the cheater this. IMO, they need to emphasize that the cheaters approach to marital problems was wrong, immoral and extremely damaging the marriage and the BS.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

I've went to a counselor about 12 years ago over my husband's cheating. The first counselor I did not like, it wasn't what he said that bothered me. Our personalities did not click at all. Talking with him made me feel combative and I just personally did not like him. I changed counselors and things were totally different. The second counselor was the one for me. I'm not saying the first one didn't know what he was talking about, but because of the uneasy feeling and the fact that I did not care for his personality caused me not to be able to really progress. I'm just saying that not every counselor is good for every person. Shop around if you don't feel comfortable with a counselor.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

A little about our situation, despite what anyone wants to think, my husband would never, never had done this to me sober. We had a good marriage before this happened, especially right prior. He rarely drank at home, I didn't know how bad the problem was he hid it from me. He worked away from home 8 days, then home 6. Being away from home stressed him out to the point he didn't know how else to deal with it. Saying that my husband is remorseful is an understatement about how he feels about what happened. He woke up and realized he was in bed with another woman, he doesn't remember having sex with her, he barely remembers going back to his room, he woke up with his underwear on, all he knows is she was naked on the top, and he's vying for the worst case scenario. Usually he drinks in his room and doesn't go out. She came up to him at the bar after her boyfriend or whatever and her got into a fight and he left her there, he didn't go hit on her. He adores me and is literally mortified he could have done this to me drunk or not. We counted it up and he took 2 Tyelnol PM's and had 4 beers before 730 when he went over to get food at the bar, then had at least 11 more there because the bartender kept feeding them to him... that's 2 sleeping pills and 15 beers. He didn't go do this because of problems we were having, because we didn't love each other, because one or both of us weren't happy, or that our sex life was bad. I should be thankful that we didn't have any of those problems, but that just makes it harder for me to understand how this happened. This happened, it's real, my heart is shattered, his heart is shattered. He is responsible for his actions drunk or not. He is addressing the drinking, he hasn't drank anything in 8 weeks since that night. 

Sorry for the novel, I just felt like it was another case of someone judging people they know nothing about.

The sad thing is you trust a counselor to help you. If you don't know why your car is clanking, you believe the mechanic, if your doctor tells you the test says you have cancer, you believe the doctor... you believe the counselor is going to help you, not hurt, not make things worse. Once we broke away the molds she made for us, things were immediately better. We thought she was trying to help us be better, and in fact she was not.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Thorburn:
> 
> Of course there was something you can do. I have a brother with PTSD from the war and He calls threatening suicide frequently.
> 
> ...


*Do no counselors take emergency calls anymore for their patients?*

Many don't and many can't. I am not allowed after hours to do this. I have worked in mental health for quite a while and honestly I do not know one psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, nurse, counselor who are allowed to take emergency calls unless they were on the clock to do so. Most will refer to a hospital crisis line, 911 ext. This is common protocol in both governement and private practise. Not saying it does not happen but I don't know counselors who give out their personal contact information and I have worked with hundreds.

Keep in mind that due to confidentiality I could not and would have refused to talk to the mother about her daughter's issues. All I could have done is tell her to call 911.

As far as follow up. I would have called to see if they wanted to set up an appointment and to get a general sense of how they are doing. 

Bear in mind that someone's crisis is not always a crisis. When I worked in a hospital as a chaplain I knew a woman who twice flipped out and seemed to be having a mental breakdown. I knew her mother and grandmother and saw them do the same thing. I told this lady to knock it off, I said you are acting like your mother and grandmother, she sat down and stopped. But we do not in most cases have the luxery of knowing folks histories.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Riven said:


> Thornburg, you actually sound like our MC.
> 
> You did not wonder if that person was okay? I'm in nursing, and I wonder how my pts are doing all of the time.


Caring for the well being of your patients is good and shows that you are dedicated to your work, however, stressing over things you have absolutely no control over will just burn you out and prevent you from helping other people in the future. 



Riven said:


> My mom called her because she didn't know what to do and didn't know who else to call.


Every single psychologist and psychiatrist that I have ever called _*always*_ has the following as part of their voice mail greeting "...if you are having a psychiatric emergency, go to your nearest hospital/ER or hang up and dial 911"



Riven said:


> I truly believe if it wasn't for that MC, I wouldn't have been in crisis in the first place... I would stress out about being upset so badly that it would throw me into a terrible cycle. *Because she told me if I was upset he would leave me.* That's bull**** flat out.


I highly doubt that the MC forced you to go to sessions. You say you saw this person for eight weeks. I have never given a psychologist/psychiatrist more than _*two*_ sessions worth of my time and money if I did not feel a connection with them.



Riven said:


> Do you also tell people to bottle up their problems instead of dealing with them? Do you blame their pain from their husband cheating on them on their own insecurities and tell them they have problems that they don't have? Basically saying this wouldn't hurt if you didn't have YOUR problems...


A good counselor will not tell you what to do, assign blame, or misdiagnose you. They are there to provide a point of view that might otherwise be missing, and to draw on their own case history and education to come up with an accurate diagnosis. Even in the best circumstances people can sometimes make mistakes (look at this entire forum) thats why a second opinion may sometimes be a good idea.



Riven said:


> And believe me... we pay out our ass for her time. I work in medical, I know that there are people who work because they enjoy what they do, and people who work because they enjoy the money from what they do. I can guarantee you the one who enjoys what they do is going to do a better job, so we're going to find one of them instead.


While there are certainly people out there who are interested in making a buck, acting in the way you describe would not be an efficient way to do it. You are quick to lash out, believe me I understand what you are going through (I'm a BS myself), but just as you want your DS to accept personal responsibility for his actions, you should be willing to accept personal responsibility for your own. Why did you continue going to a counselor that made you feel bad? Especially to the extent that you describe? It seems to me that you willingly continued to attend sessions, and instead of looking for the glimmer of truth in what was being said to you, you looked for reasons that the counselor was wrong, bad, crappy, etc..

You may find this site useful:

Out of the FOG - Personality Disorder Support
Out of the FOG - Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)

Hope things improve for you soon.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Again, I don't have BPD. 

You have no idea if I'm quick to lash out or not. Is that based on me defending my position?

The longer we went the worse it got. My husband doesn't like counselors, this was the only one who could get us in without waiting 3 weeks ( looking back probably a bad sign...) and was ETHL certified, or so we were told, she's actually not done with her certification we found out later. I let him pick so he could be comfortable with the one we used. I can assure you that if we changed every two weeks, he would not have been able to even deal with that at the time.

I accepted responsibility when I stopped going. I am a strong person, an intelligent person, but any person who's entire world shattered in one night is vulnerable, they want to believe the promises, especially when they are made by people who are supposed to help you. Did she do any good? Yes, there were good parts, good things that we learned. But the bad outweighs the good by far. By telling a husband not to talk to his wife when she's upset... what exactly is that going to achieve other than alienation? Telling a BS that they need to fix thing all on their own? That will only do the same thing, separate them from the WS when they need reassured that they are wanted and loved.

What's really dumb is when I first came on here, everyone said she was just rug sweeping and I denied it, now I see she was, and now people are defending her... The truth behind our sessions is that she was projecting her problems into my life. She belittled my feelings by comparing them to problems she had in the past that were "worse" than mine. She has border line personality disorder, or so she told me, then tried to tell me I have it. Every session she said at least once if not more, that I 'was a lot like her'. No. I'm not a recovered alcoholic, my son is not in prison, I don't write papers that people tell me I should publish then don't ( I write things that are published) and in now why so I think I deserved for this to happen to me. 

I continued to stay because I didn't realize she was making me feel that way. I've never been through this before, I thought it was all part of what was normal to feel until my friends and family stepped in and made me see the light. I had another person in the nursing field who deals with mental and substance issues even confirm to me that she's harsh and rarely has results with her patients when I called her for a reference for a new MC. She was the top person referred to us by a local mental and substance place that does in and out patient but did not have openings. Funny thing is we later found out that she works there for her schooling... Hmmm kickback? Is that ethical? Is it ethical to continue counseling people when you find out their insurance is not covering the sessions?

As for her phone, she doesn't have an office phone, she uses her cell for business and family. Funny thing is when you're charging $100/hr you'd think you could afford a business phone.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I still think, Riven, when all is said and done, your husband's biggest issue is his alcoholism.

If he drinks as much as you say he does, frankly, he hasn't been sober in a while.

I would concentrate on getting him sober.

No one of course recommends rug-sweeping the cheating, or allowing him an out due to alocholism.

But why not, given that it was an ONS when he was very drunk, give him the chance to prove he can be a different person without the drinking.

This is just my view. He also had a DUI. The DUI is just as bad or worse than the ONS. They were both done while drunk. In the one case, he could have killed a bunch of other people. In the other, he wounded you deeply. But their common link is alcohol.

I hope you don't misunderstand me, but it seems you've channeled all of the rage for all of his many betrayals to the marriage via alcohol into the ONS. But he has such larger, larger issues.

You desparately need a support group for spouses of alcoholics. Most people on this board just are ill-equipped to give advice in that context, me included. Standard advice for infidelity and BSs etc. is a poor fit for him and for you--that is just my gut sense from everything you've told me.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

........sorry left the phone in the grasp of my 22mobth old.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Thanks iheartlife. He's been sober for 8 weeks now. Urges come he says but he knows that the bigger picture is more important. I personally feel like we've made more ground in the last three days or so than all 8 weeks with the MC. That's the point where I said this isn't working, listen to me, not her. Because when he was listening to her, he'd let her override me. She'd tell him not to do stuff, and when I asked him to he wouldn't because she said not to. I'm not talking about drawing pictures about what happened, I'm talking about reassuring me he loves me and this wasn't my fault, telling me things will work out and he's sorry when I'm upset ( not re-creating, just upset about things ).

I'm sorry no matter how you look at it, that's a bad MC. That's the same box as telling their kids that it's their fault you're getting a divorce. The same kind of person who says it was someone's fault they got raped because obviously they wanted it to happen since they were walking down a street by a bar.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

You don't have to justify switching MC's to people on this board. Both spouses have to feel the MC is helping and not hurting the marriage.

Now if you were saying you won't go to MC at all, or you were saying this is your third MC and dang it all every MC is a loser, that would be something else.

We know for a fact your husband is an alcoholic. You don't even have to say anything else. Even if you were a raving lunatic it wouldn't justify alcoholism or an affair. The appropriate response to a failed marriage is always to seek counseling and then divorce for anything short of abuse.

Go put your energy into finding a good counselor for marriages wounded by alcoholism.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Riven said:


> Again, I don't have BPD.


I never said you had BPD, that was your former counselors opinion. The site I linked deals with most personality disorders, not just BPD, and even if you do not have the disorder, there is no harm from learning about it and the symptoms that go along with it. 



Riven said:


> You have no idea if I'm quick to lash out or not. Is that based on me defending my position?


No, its based on the language and tone of the posts you make, the situation you've recently gone through, and your subsequent near breakdown. 



Riven said:


> The longer we went the worse it got. My husband doesn't like counselors, this was the only one who could get us in without waiting 3 weeks ( looking back probably a bad sign...) and was ETHL certified, or so we were told, she's actually not done with her certification we found out later. I let him pick so he could be comfortable with the one we used. I can assure you that if we changed every two weeks, he would not have been able to even deal with that at the time.


Even though MC is a must when it comes to R and repairing a relationship, it is sometimes best to address other issues first. If your H's substance abuse problem was so bad that he could not deal with going through a few counselors until one was found that suited both of you, perhaps rehab, or an addiction counselor would have been a better first choice. 



Riven said:


> I accepted responsibility when I stopped going. I am a strong person, an intelligent person, but any person who's entire world shattered in one night is vulnerable, they want to believe the promises, especially when they are made by people who are supposed to help you. Did she do any good? Yes, there were good parts, good things that we learned. But the bad outweighs the good by far. By telling a husband not to talk to his wife when she's upset... what exactly is that going to achieve other than alienation? Telling a BS that they need to fix thing all on their own? That will only do the same thing, separate them from the WS when they need reassured that they are wanted and loved.


If your H's mental health/substance abuse issues prevent him from processing what you are going through properly, discussing it, right at that very moment, may do more harm than good. If you are at a 6 out of 10 in terms of mental health, and he is a 2 out of 10, it is unlikely that he would relate, understand, or be truly sympathetic to your issues anyway. So perhaps your counselor saw that you were in need of healing, and knew your H was incapable of helping you with it at that moment.


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

Or maybe she's a bad counselor who doesn't care. The most "caring" we saw out of her was when we said we were going to stop paying her over $400 a week for her "services"...

Again you don't know anything about the situation.

All I've basically heard from this thread was people saying I don't want to hear the stuff the counselor says even though it's true. Yet there is only one person in this thread other than me who knows most of the information. 

Yes, my husband has problems. His substance abuse issue is NOT at home, it was away from home. Putting him in inpatient would do more harm to him than having him be at home doing outpatient. He has other things that you guys aren't aware of. 

I don't have any other major mental health issues to deal with first. And he has other things that need addressed, but nothing that can't be worked on while SAVING the marriage. I am angry in my OP, because we were betrayed and abused by someone we were supposed to be able to trust. 

I understand Paladin what you're saying about him not understanding, but in the end he can't anyway because he's never been in my position. You don't need to understand physics to play on a teeter totter... you don't need to understand the details to know your wife is hurting and needs to know she's loved and desired. It's not that he was unable to, it's that she was telling him not to. He even said that. Since he stopped listening to her, and following his own intuition, I've been able to sleep, haven't even had a minor break down, and I have felt loved. I loved him for the person he was for 10 years, she told him not to be that person. Even with his wrong words trying to say the right thing, at least he was saying something.

In reality I AM the dumb one here, for letting you guys pull me into this dumb pissing match over something you guys no nothing about. I'm not saying about counseling or cheating. I'm saying my life, my husband's life, and our marriage.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Support is a two way street, if you feel like the advice/comments you are getting from people who take time out of their lives to post in your threads for no other reason than to perhaps provide a point of view that you dont see or have and help you salvage your relationship, maybe it's time to stop posting?

Your replies are full of comments like "you dont know anything about me or my situation," even though it's clear that we know the things you choose to share since most of us take time to read what you are posting. Comments like that make it seem like you already know everything, and obviously know everything there is to know better than anyone else posting, so I guess I'm wondering why you chose to post anything in the first place. You also say "you don't need to understand physics to play on a teeter totter" and in the very same sentence you say that your H will never understand you, but _should_ somehow understand you. You really cant have it both ways, people can either understand without knowing the details, or they cant. 

Just as no one forced you to attend your sessions with a crappy counselor, no one is forcing you to take any advice posted on this forum. I really do hope things improve for you, all that anger and bitterness is bad for the soul.

-P


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

My physician's have both checked in on me to make sure I was okay randomly because they know what's going on. When my ENT did my sinus surgery, my primary came by the hospital each day even though he wasn't my attending. 

As for my husband understanding me, I never said he needed to. I have asked him for what I needed from him. I've told him plainly, if I'm upset I need you to hold me and make me feel like you care, but she was telling him not to. I have not had one freak out since we got rid of her, but today when I called a referred MC and they were full they recommended her and yes I become upset with the thought of even seeing her again. 

P, I have the most anger towards myself for not listening to myself more, instead I accepted that she told me was normal, even though everything I read contradicted it... that people were expected to forgive their spouse 2 weeks after something like this, that they weren't supposed to be hurt or upset that something like this happened. The funny thing is someone on here, I believe you, said "my tone", well your tone sounds holier-than-thou and know it all to me, is that how you mean it? Everything is in the way that you read it.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Seems to me like you want to pick a fight, I have enough crap going on in my life without adding drama to it. You said you were not interested in getting into a pissing contest, yet you seem to be going out of your way to antagonize. If you have some concrete examples of what I said that made you feel like I have a "holier than thou know it all attitude" I'd appreciate you pointing them out so I can avoid using that type of language when posting in your threads (assuming I continue to do so). 

As far as tone goes, I agree, text is a poor medium for conveying tone, but words _do_ matter, and certain words fall into the "angry, bitter, combative" camp more than others. 



Riven said:


> ...what you're saying about him not understanding, but in the end *he can't anyway because he's never been in my position.* You don't need to understand physics to play on a teeter totter... *you don't need to understand the details to know your wife is hurting and needs to know she's loved and desired....*


I think this is why we are on different pages about understanding. I think that in order to _know_ that you want and need to be comforted, desired, and loved he has to _understand_ what he did and why you are hurting in the first place. If he feels you shouldn't be hurt, or can't understand why you are, he may not be able to give you what you want and are asking for.


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