# Falling in Love again?



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

In a recent thread, someone mentioned that once a woman falls out of love with a man there is no getting it back. I've seen it mentioned several times, and have seen it mentioned that this is false. 

Any insights as to how true this is, if there are circumstances where this is true/is not true etc. 

Mostly interested in women's point of view, since it is the only point of view relevant on this topic.

I would think that if the guy changed in some ways, that can have an effect. Going back to who the guy was before should reverse everything. Unless something major like physical and emotional abuse etc.

Thoughts?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Woman here. Speaking for myself, falling “out of love” with a man isn’t something that happens quickly or overnight. It is a long, slow death by a thousand paper cuts... with PLENTY of warning and opportunity for a man who is even remotely paying attention to intervene and help change the course of events. 

I was married for 20 years. Had my husband REALLY listened, really tried to meet me halfway at the 4 year mark, or the 9 year mark, or the 14 year mark, or the 19 year mark we might have been able to salvage it. At year 20, there is NOTHING he could have said or done to reignite the spark. By that point, the slow laborious process of shutting down and disconnecting was complete. 

Year by year I was slowly tuning out and shutting down. Eventually there IS a tipping point. In my experience, I have never fallen back in love with someone who I was “done” with. Ever.



manwithnoname said:


> Going back to who the guy was before *should* reverse everything.


Yeah, except that’s not really how it works out. Years of bitterness and resentment totally changes forever who “that” guy was in the eyes of a woman.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Changing back into how you were should reverse everything?

Not a chance.

Once they're done, they're done.

If they fall out of love with a man and he doesn't grovel and plead and sends her on her way, not giving her the chance to lose all respect for him, and his indifference to her perplexes her--- maybe a chance.

But If a man tries to "change back to how he was when they were in love" and "win her back"----- no, there is no chance she will ever love him again.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Flip the script.

Have you ever fallen back in love with any of your exs?

I imagine it's the same for both men and women.

Once love is gone, it stays gone.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

happy as a clam said:


> Woman here. Speaking for myself, falling “out of love” with a man isn’t something that happens quickly or overnight. It is a long, slow death by a thousand paper cuts... with PLENTY of warning and opportunity for a man who is even remotely paying attention to intervene and help change the course of events.
> 
> I was married for 20 years. Had my husband REALLY listened, really tried to meet me halfway at the 4 year mark, or the 9 year mark, or the 14 year mark, or the 19 year mark we might have been able to salvage it. At year 20, there is NOTHING he could have said or done to reignite the spark. By that point, the slow laborious process of shutting down and disconnecting was complete.
> 
> ...


Ok, so it's not a switch that goes off or a fuse that burns out forever, it is a slow process that takes time. What is it that he should have listened to at year 4,9,14, and 19? Is it something obvious or does it need a decoder?


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

snerg said:


> Flip the script.
> 
> *Have you ever fallen back in love with any of your exs?
> *
> ...


The sample size is too small for accuracy


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Speaking for myself, this has happened to me personally (falling out of love) on 3 separate occasions. One with my ex H and twice with ex BFs. Each time it was like Happy mentioned - slow, gradual, over time. For the resentment "period", ex H was the longest time of the 3. The second longest was over a year and the last was over about 5 months.

I love very deeply and strongly once I've made up my mind. Unfortunately, in the past, I was guilty of seeing potential that would never be realized. I would never receive the same level of investment or respect that I'd have for them. I'd be like a fixture... Utility. Useful to them but ultimately dispensible of something new and shiny caught their eye. And they were all too immature in their own ways, which was something that took me a long time to see for each. I had a broken picker for sure but I never blamed them, I blamed myself.

I couldn't help falling out of love for each. Although nothing happened overnight, my change in attitude did once that love had dried up completely. And in each case it was a single event that helped me to reach the decision, finally. Once made, there was no turning back.

There was no Hintese involved. I don't play games. I told each of them straight up what was killing my love, and each of them chose to ignore what I was saying. 

Two of the three positively reeled once I was "done." Because my actions showed I was done. I was done-done and gone from their lives (or as quickly as I could). One just said "OK" and left me alone. He seemed to get it, but he had a history of failed relationships (that should have clued me in more, but I did love and respect him).

Although I left all, I left quietly with no ill will. I left with class, maturity, and diplomacy. They may not have seen it that way, but I did what I thought was right and expected of an adult woman. What I expected of myself.

I have never once regretted my decisions for each. I was disappointed things couldn't have been different, but ultimately, they were simply not for me.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Changing back into how you were should reverse everything?
> 
> If they fall out of love with a man and he doesn't grovel and plead and sends her on her way, not giving her the chance to lose all respect for him, and *his indifference to her perplexes her*--- maybe a chance.


No, the opposite is true. It doesn't perplex at all when he is indifferent rather it confirms what she concluded from his behavior in the relationship; it's just more of the same. The perplexing part comes when he acts surprised and grovels/pleads when you are leaving.

At least it perplexed me for awhile and then I figured out that he was panicked at the upset to his comfortable life; not for losing me in particular.

Neglect, indifference, disrespect, withdrawal ... all chip away at love. It doesn't always have to be obvious abuse, although that will do it too.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Satya said:


> Speaking for myself, this has happened to me personally (falling out of love) on 3 separate occasions. One with my ex H and twice with ex BFs. Each time it was like Happy mentioned - slow, gradual, over time. For the resentment "period", ex H was the longest time of the 3. The second longest was over a year and the last was over about 5 months.
> 
> I love very deeply and strongly once I've made up my mind. Unfortunately, in the past, I was guilty of seeing potential that would never be realized. I would never receive the same level of investment or respect that I'd have for them. I'd be like a fixture... Utility. Useful to them but ultimately dispensible of something new and shiny caught their eye. And they were all too immature in their own ways, which was something that took me a long time to see for each. I had a broken picker for sure but I never blamed them, I blamed myself.
> 
> ...


Was it the same thing in each case?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

manwithnoname said:


> Was it the same thing in each case?


Different things if you were to pick them apart, but stemming from what I'd call immaturity.. And fear. Parts of them refused to grow up or self-improve. I'm always striving to learn and grow, and realized I'd be forcefully dragging them along for the life ride and carrying them. I wanted a partner who was as eager for the journey and all its good and bad points.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

manwithnoname said:


> What is it that he should have listened to at year 4,9,14, and 19? Is it something obvious or does it need a decoder?


Regarding what he could have listened to, it depends on the specific relationship and the specific issues.

My husband was simply on a different wavelength. A VERY different wavelength. He was avoidant to the point that he simply ignored/denied when the marriage was in the crapper. I can't recall the specific issue, but one night I wanted to have a conversation with him about a few things I felt were important and needed to be addressed. His response? "I WILL NOT DISCUSS THIS ... NOW OR EVER!!!." Damned if he didn't mean it. He grabbed the dog and left to spend the night in our R.V. 

I never discussed a single thing with him ever again.

Even when I was packing my stuff in one of our never-used spare bedrooms, and he KNEW I was stashing boxes in there, he didn't say a word. The day before the moving van pulled up in the driveway, I told him I was leaving because I couldn't live with his drinking any longer. He didn't say anything. He proceeded to go on a bender. The day I left, he was falling-down drunk.

I don't think any man would need a Little Orphan Annie secret decoder ring to figure out what I had/have to say. I'm blunt. I'm not passive-aggressive. Yeah, I was obvious about what I wanted and needed from a marriage. My husband? Who the heck knows? 

He's dead now, so he can't give his side of the story. Not that he could give it when he was alive. He was too busy avoiding me, avoiding life, and drowning his problems/issues/sorrows in a bottle.

Fall in love again? Not unless I had some masochistic urge to shove my heart and soul into a Cuisinart.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Thank you all. 

I think it is obvious why I have asked this question. The not so obvious thing is that I do not have any obvious reasons why things are the way things are. Everything is the same except I feel now more than ever that we're just going through the motions, and any attempts I've made to bring us closer have not worked. 

At this point I am just waiting a while, not necessarily waiting for things to change, but more for some things to play out (that may or may not be related). Then I'll have a decision to make.

It's funny the saying about brinkmanship and you have to be willing to go through with it.... I'm the type of person who won't use it as a tool, once I play that card, the card is played.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Never seen it happen. I have a friend that I wish would do it. She is in a marriage with someone that she doesn't love. She swears she never did, but I find that hard to understand. In the last few years, he has changed completely. He's gotten a great job and has a promising career. He does everything for her. He's the model husband. She doesn't care. It's sad to watch.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@manwithnoname, this isn't all that uncommon.

I think that often women grow up faster, have more responsibility heaped upon them earlier in life, and shed childish games sooner. That is, unless they had a kind of stunted growth/maturity. It can be tiring if a partner can't reinvent themselves enough with changing times and lifestyles. Not saying that's the issue for you, but it's a pretty common occurrence. 

What really tears at women can be different, but I'd have little sympathy for a woman who expects a mind reader over a woman who clearly states her needs. So don't blame yourself for more than is your due. If you were never told, how can you know? Sure, some behaviors are intuitive. Others require direct knowledge. 

Even if you're improving yourself to be "as you once were" it will not go to waste. This improvement will suit you moving forward, and the beneficiary might simply be a different woman.

I'm hopeful that for each man I left (not really including my ex here, since he's no longer a man, technically) they grew up a bit after I left and improved for the next woman. Maybe I just wasn't the one they ultimately wanted or saw a future with. I'm a little more certain that they just weren't ready to mature in the ways I needed. The two I'm speaking of were about my age (one was 3 years younger).


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Honestly, I feel that love is a decision once you get past the initial shiny stage.

I don't think being a man or being a woman is what makes the difference, I think it's the decisions those people make.

I believe if one person has decided to forgive and love again, or forgive and continue to love, and they've truly made that choice, it happens. I think if they decide to let the relationship go, it will fade away to nothing. If they don't truly change that decision, there is nothing that can be done to make it happen. It is all about how they decide to see their partner. Focusing on all the bad, shifting all the blame, refusing to work on the relationship and/or themselves, these are all signs of someone who has made the decision to fall out of love, and then it happens.

I also think that if they are pressured to give it another try, reluctantly agreeing to go to counseling or whatever, they will get to the end and nothing will have been achieved because they never made the decision to try, it was pushed upon them. All that effort bounces off them, it never sinks in.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Woman here. Speaking for myself, falling “out of love” with a man isn’t something that happens quickly or overnight. It is a long, slow death by a thousand paper cuts... with PLENTY of warning and opportunity for a man who is even remotely paying attention to intervene and help change the course of events.
> 
> I was married for 20 years. Had my husband REALLY listened, really tried to meet me halfway at the 4 year mark, or the 9 year mark, or the 14 year mark, or the 19 year mark we might have been able to salvage it. At year 20, there is NOTHING he could have said or done to reignite the spark. By that point, the slow laborious process of shutting down and disconnecting was complete.
> 
> ...


*Would you agree that this mental rationale is what largely drives a woman to cheat on a husband, or at least want to?*


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

breeze said:


> Honestly, I feel that love is a decision once you get past the initial shiny stage.
> 
> I don't think being a man or being a woman is what makes the difference, I think it's the decisions those people make.
> 
> ...


I disagree with this. My experience is different. You can't choose to/decide to/make yourself love someone again. No more than I could decide to be in love with, for instance, the mail carrier in my building.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Adding to my post above, even if you forgive, you still don't forget your history with someone. And that history can make that other person someone you will just never be in love with again.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Op:

Have you asked her what is going on?

Have you asked her what changes need to be made?

My ex killed our love thru his neglect, emotional/verbal/mental and the physical abuse is what tipped me over the edge. 

Divorce.

In my 2nd marriage there have been ups and downs and we went thru a rough spot a few years ago and I felt myself checking out. Just going thru the motions. There has been times I have not felt as connected to him as I should. 

When that happened, I stuck to the commitment. 

I did try to talk to him and it worked to a point, but things didn't get truly better until he changed jobs and was able to get on a more reg schedule. 

We now have more quality time to spend together. Before he was juggling 2 p/t jobs and one was a split shift so we had time together during the day, but not in the evening. I hated him being gone in the evenings. I'd fall asleep before him. We are doing date nights now. The love life has become alot better, so I am able to feel more connected. So is he. 

We are both making a big effort and I feel like I am falling in love all over again. I know he feels the same way. We never feel like we fell out of love, but the romance just wasn't where it needed to be. 

This new job he has a more reg schedule, M-F he works 50 - 55 hours a week sometimes, but no nights or weekends. So he comes home, we eat dinner, we talk, play with the little boy, talk to the other kids, we go watch a show or listen to music together. 

Part of it to is stress. When he felt stressed about the job stuff and our future, he inadvertently shut me out. Not completely. 

We both make a big effort to try to build each other up and send little love note text. 

Our relationship is in a much better place now then it was just a few short years ago.

As a woman, when you feel neglected, you start to doubt your partners love for you.

He has apoligized and has been sincere.

Marriage is a commitment and takes hard work and effort, but it is very rewarding. I am very happy I have someone worth the effort who I love and feels the same way about me.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Op:
> 
> Have you asked her what is going on?
> 
> ...


My STBX blames the last so many years for her wanting a divorce and says the Affair had nothing to do with our issues over the last year. Like many husbands, I thought things were good, at least ok. She complained, she gave warning signs but I thought I was doing my best still. The thing that hurts most is I told her flat out after she decided that no matter what, a divorce was the best thing for her, even if she couldn't be with her affair partner (he went back to his wife, or is laying low for now) ... I told her (Name) if you simply would have just told me, I need you to do this or else, that would have given me the same wake-up call as the affair. I did everything I could for 7 months but was treading water and I could never figure out why, everything she asked from before and for now, I was doing but it was still always wrong. I didn't realize until the 7th month that she had never stopped the affair even after 2 discovery days, she was actually getting deeper and deeper into it.

After a lot of counseling and talks with family on both sides, there's things that I could have done to make things better but I've realized there's nothing I could have done to prevent the affair, the issues of insecurity and the issues in general were sadly in her all along, even long before I met her.

I'm on a path of just seeing this divorce through it's end and getting out with as much dignity as possible and most importantly, getting my 6 and 10 year olds through it as unscathed as humanly possible. The things that she has sad through the past 7-8 months make it seem like she never loved me but it's hard to rationalize that vs even as recent as the last two anniversaries where she told me she was so lucky to have me and is looking forward to the next 100 years with me.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

snerg said:


> Flip the script.
> 
> Have you ever fallen back in love with any of your exs?
> 
> ...


*Let's just say that if there were a great worldwide calamity that took the lives of everyone except for me and my RSXW, in good conscience I could never find it within my heart to ever have the desire to touch her again!

Thus negating any ray of hope for the continued existence of mankind!*


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> snerg said:
> 
> 
> > Flip the script.
> ...


She won’t be getting a Valentine card then?


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Man here. I think the saying holds true. Once a woman makes up her mind, she has made up her mind.

I don't think it is a matter of women growing up faster, or him not meeting her halfway. I think it is more a matter of people changing. Even if you could reverse course and go back to who you were (which you can't) the fact remains that your SO has still changed as well.

I think women have been empowered and liberated by changes in society and are more willing to make existential changes. I think men have been unwilling or slow to accept these changes and have been less willing to overturn the apple cart.

I don't think it has anything to do with maturity. It is simple human nature. One tends to desire new opportunities when the existing one isn't satisfying you anymore. Women have new opportunities, most men were satisfied with what they had.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, many of your posts focus on aspects of gender at a general level.

The problem with this is your wife is her own person, with her own wants and needs.

Focus on the micro level, not the macro level.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> She won’t be getting a Valentine card then?


*Andy: Let's just say that the one that I would send her might eventually end up getting my a$$ whipped or her new husbands a$$ whipped one!*


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

The only person I've ever truly loved, and fallen out of love with, is my ex-husband. Honestly, I would very likely have remained married to him for the rest of our lives. I'd realized more and more in the latter years of our marriage that we really weren't connected, that our marriage really wasn't all that functional, that a lot of things I'd chalked up to "marriage is work" or "relationships are hard" situations were just very unhealthy dynamics that no healthy person with self-respect should have tolerated. I caught him in an EA (he claimed) and was crushed. But I was willing to work on it. I was willing to keep trying. I was willing to keep playing the 'pick me' game. I was committed to continuing MC for as long as it took for us to work out our communication issues so that he might finally understand how much he'd hurt me. So that he might one day get it. I just had to try harder, to help him understand, to be what he needed so he could "hear" me. 

But I was getting tired. Worn out from the constant struggle, from years of twisting myself into a pretzel to try to "fix" myself so that he could hear and understand me and our relationship could finally be good for both of us rather than just him. In the end, though, I came to the painful realization that our problem was not that my husband did not understand, it was that he did not care. Honestly. He just didn't operate on a wavelength that allowed him to process that other people's wants and needs truly mattered. By the time he finally admitted that he'd been serially cheating for the near-entirety of our 21 years together, I was just exhausted. I realized that nothing I'd done had mattered, that nothing I'd been working to save had ever even really existed, that our entire relationship - my whole adult life to that point - had been a figment of his lies and my imagination. And, so, I was just done. Done. Completely and utterly done. As if a switch had been flipped, and all the love I'd been working so hard to nurture and maintain for years, had been instantly snuffed out. 

I filed the next day. Our exceptionally amicable divorce was final on the same day, exactly 10 weeks later, that I moved into the new home I'd just purchased. My ex-husband pursued me for months afterward, seeming angry at me for destroying our marriage and family, and apparently waiting for me to get over being "mad at him" and move home where I belonged. He just couldn't believe I was done. But there is absolutely nothing, at all, that could ever make me love him again. Nothing he could do or say that would erase the years of neglect, of emotional abuse, of treating me like annoying and slightly incompetent staff, of endangering my life (and our unborn son's life) by having unprotected sex with strangers, of treating me with the contempt a man feels for the woman he's unfaithful to when he knows she's too stupid to figure it out. 

I was, and am, and will forever be, done with him. He killed all the love that I had for him, and he took his time doing it. Even if he magically changed back into the man (I thought) I fell in love with, I would still know that kind of cruelty, that level of narcissism, was inside him. 

And that's the thing, isn't it? If a man can "go back to who the guy was before" then clearly he could have been that man all along. He just chose not to be.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

There is a gradual loss of love as many have described very well here.

But there is also the sudden loss of love which accompanies an affair, and it is often coupled with a feelings of hatred / pity / contempt towards their betrayed spouse. This seems to be more difficult to come back from, particularly when it is rugswept or never discovered.

Tamat


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Rowan said:


> Worn out from the constant struggle, from years of twisting myself into a pretzel to try to "fix" myself so that he could hear and understand me and our relationship could finally be good for both of us rather than just him.
> I too tried to "fix" myself to save the marriage. I think "fixing" oneself is a common solution to problems in a marriage. But sometimes I stop and wonder if "fixing" oneself does more harm than good in the long run. I think most of us can agree that one must somehow feel broken in order to need to be fixed. But what if we weren't the one who was broken? All you have done is tried to change yourself in order to try to please someone else and that can never be good.
> 
> If a man can "go back to who the guy was before" then clearly he could have been that man all along. He just chose not to be.


This is another one of those "what-ifs" I have pondered. No one can go back to who they were, because each of us is changed by our experiences. We cannot undo something we have experienced. Maybe all that has really happened is that we have both simply changed, in ways that aren't compatible any longer? (not saying that is what happened to you, just in general)


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Woman here. Speaking for myself, falling “out of love” with a man isn’t something that happens quickly or overnight. It is a long, slow death by a thousand paper cuts... with PLENTY of warning and opportunity for a man who is even remotely paying attention to intervene and help change the course of events.
> 
> I was married for 20 years. Had my husband REALLY listened, really tried to meet me halfway at the 4 year mark, or the 9 year mark, or the 14 year mark, or the 19 year mark we might have been able to salvage it. At year 20, there is NOTHING he could have said or done to reignite the spark. By that point, the slow laborious process of shutting down and disconnecting was complete.
> 
> ...


Nailed it!


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

breeze said:


> Honestly, I feel that love is a decision once you get past the initial shiny stage.
> 
> I don't think being a man or being a woman is what makes the difference, I think it's the decisions those people make.
> 
> ...


Some would argue that it is not a decision or choice, it just happens. I am somewhere in between. I believe that you decide there is enough love to marry one another, and this decision should remain if all else is constant. Sure, you evolve and work on things as they come, but it should remain a constant for the most part.

I hope it all works out for you in your situation, I'm sure it will.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> Some would argue that it is not a decision or choice, it just happens. I am somewhere in between. I believe that you decide there is enough love to marry one another, and *this decision should remain if all else is constant*. Sure, you evolve and work on things as they come, but it should remain a constant for the most part.
> 
> I hope it all works out for you in your situation, I'm sure it will.


Yeah, that is the part of the situation that many can't seem to wrap their heads around. Nothing is constant, everything changes. That is life.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Op:
> 
> Have you asked her what is going on?
> 
> Have you asked her what changes need to be made?



Not recently. I have received "I don't know" as an answer a couple of years ago. And that she wanted to be "closer" but it seemed that I was the only one putting in an effort.

I still make her laugh, take care of all the things I've been taking care of, more successful work wise without putting in more time, keep fit (very good shape for my age) 

She doesn't seem distant like some BS report, doesn't guard her phone etc. I'm as certain as I can possibly be that there is no one else. She just does not show any affection to me any more. It was not much to begin with, but non existent now for several months. In fact, I have not initiated for over 6 months. I was fed up with duty sex and I figure I'd rather do without it for now, which is different than before when I would take it when I could. I have another thread on this topic, thought it was medical, which it still may be part of the reason.

But it comes down to the fact that I can't read her mind, and I can't guess what the problem is. I will need to find a way to voice my concerns, finding the right wording that will work best.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Ynot said:


> Yeah, that is the part of the situation that many can't seem to wrap their heads around. Nothing is constant, everything changes. That is life.


That's the puzzling thing. Things haven't changed that much around here. Our interests, goals, etc. are all still similar to each other and similar to what they were. Any subtle changes shouldn't affect one's feelings towards another without anything being said.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> That's the puzzling thing. Things haven't changed that much around here. Our interests, goals, etc. are all still similar to each other and similar to what they were. Any subtle changes shouldn't affect one's feelings towards another without anything being said.


You posted an OP about falling out of love - that is far from subtle.
There is no sex and you haven't initiated for 6 months - that is also far from subtle.
And by your own admittance, it has been several years since you asked about it.

I think you need to have a discussion with your wife, because some of these changes, which apparently are just "subtle" ones to you, might seem huge to her.


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## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Woman here. Speaking for myself, falling “out of love” with a man isn’t something that happens quickly or overnight. It is a long, slow death by a thousand paper cuts... with PLENTY of warning and opportunity for a man who is even remotely paying attention to intervene and help change the course of events.
> 
> I was married for 20 years. Had my husband REALLY listened, really tried to meet me halfway at the 4 year mark, or the 9 year mark, or the 14 year mark, or the 19 year mark we might have been able to salvage it. At year 20, there is NOTHING he could have said or done to reignite the spark. By that point, the slow laborious process of shutting down and disconnecting was complete.
> 
> ...



I am at the EXACT place that "happy as a clam" was in at her 20-year mark. 

And she is correct in that (falling out of love) it is long, slow, painful process ..... death by a thousand paper cuts. That's what it seems like anyway. One just cant "repair" years of being ignored, neglected, abused, disrespected, being taken advantage of, being taken for granted, or whatever else it is/was that was suffered at the hands of your SO/spouse.

Some people just grow apart, are no longer able to communicate effectively, can't or don't know how to show their love for one another and just become incompatible....but hang on for logistical/practical purposes which no longer prove a benefit for the relationship.

But I think it is possible for some people to fall back in love with someone if the reasons for falling out of love in the first place are brought into clear light and both parties are willing to work on whatever changes are needed by both parties for the betterment of the relationship.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Ynot said:


> You posted an OP about falling out of love - that is far from subtle.
> There is no sex and you haven't initiated for 6 months - that is also far from subtle.
> And by your own admittance, it has been several years since you asked about it.
> 
> I think you need to have a discussion with your wife, because *some of these changes, which apparently are just "subtle" ones to you, might seem huge to her.*


This is part of the puzzling thing. Why would the person who thinks huge changes have taken place not say anything?

I would think this would be the person who would bring it up, not the one who can't figure out what may or may not be wrong.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think that people like to believe they have less input into their emotions than they actually have. I was listening to a talk the other day and they said emotions should be like data, not directives. You may feel angry, and you acknowledge that and you think about it but you don't decide that that anger will direct your life. This is why we have successful anger management classes for people.

I believe someone who is in touch with how they feel, can analyse it and decide what they want to do with that information, is less likely to be led around by that same emotion. For example, some will push it aside and refuse to acknowledge it, refuse to name it, refuse to do anything about it. That's the rug sweeping technique I think. Then those that feel it but don't analyse. They dwell on it over and over and refuse to practice empathy for the other person affected so that they get a clearer picture of what is really going on. I've seen that in action and talked to other people about it. That person might be hurt by something their spouse did and when they express it, they refuse to believe their spouses explanation and refuse to accept an apology, but instead of using that data to make come to a decision (separation etc), they bring it up over and over, trying to hurt their spouse, calling them a liar (though not necessarily using that word) when they refuse to accept that it wasn't meant the way they took it. It is easier for them to hold on to that hurt/anger etc, hold it and use it to detach first. To accept another point of view would be to have to accept some form of personal growth. Note I'm not talking about nasty people who have deliberately attempted to harm a person through words, I'm talking about two people who love each other and who are struggling to communicate effectively.

Anyway, lack of affection always goes both ways, and perfunctory kisses are not what I consider effective if that's what someone considers affection. Spontaneous hugs, coming up to hug from behind and nuzzling into the neck, kisses given not because you feel you have to before you leave or arrive, but just because. Things like that. A person can say they were affectionate and the other not because they always made sure to give a quick peck on the lips before they'd leave, but then withhold affection in every other moment, or not respond to those spontaneous moments their spouse gives, and come here and say, "but *I* was affectionate and they weren't!".


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

manwithnoname said:


> Not recently. I have received "I don't know" as an answer a couple of years ago. And that she wanted to be "closer" but it seemed that I was the only one putting in an effort.
> 
> I still make her laugh, take care of all the things I've been taking care of, more successful work wise without putting in more time, keep fit (very good shape for my age)
> 
> ...


The thing here is that you've made a decision for both of you based on what seems like resentment. You haven't thought through the emotion, you've let it decide your course of action. 

You have pulled away and now she will. It's a logical and expected reaction to her situation. The end result will be the ending of the marriage. If this is what you've decided to do, and you're ready to accept the consequences, then you should inform her now.

Otherwise, stop reacting and start acting. If you really want changes, do something constructive instead of destructive.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> This is part of the puzzling thing. Why would the person who thinks huge changes have taken place not say anything?
> 
> I would think this would be the person who would bring it up, not the one who can't figure out what may or may not be wrong.


Because many of those huge changes took place day by day not overnight (how many times has death by a thousand cuts been mentioned?). You didn't start out not having sex for months. It started out not having sex for one day, which became two days, which became a week, which became two and then a month etc.

During that time, there may have been a very valid specific reason for every time you didn't. Each one of those times was something you experienced, something she experienced. Every experience changes us. So subtly over time, these changes took place and became much bigger changes.

I was married for 24 years. We got along just fine for the most part, but over time the bond deteriorated, just a little each day. I never thought it was anything major. I let stuff linger, so did she. Eventually it was too much. Today I am divorced. So my suggestion to you, is face it. Face your fear, tear the bandage off, find out how she feels. If it is meant to be, it will be. If it isn't, then you might save yourself years of heart ache, depression and anxiety.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

breeze said:


> The thing here is that you've made a decision for both of you based on what seems like resentment. You haven't thought through the emotion, you've let it decide your course of action.
> 
> *You have pulled away and now she will.* It's a logical and expected reaction to her situation. The end result will be the ending of the marriage. If this is what you've decided to do, and you're ready to accept the consequences, then you should inform her now.
> 
> Otherwise, stop reacting and start acting. If you really want changes, do something constructive instead of destructive.


It's the other way around. She's pulled away. I haven't, but am starting to. I have genuine affection that I show through actions. But when these are not reciprocated, after a while I start to wonder.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> It's the other way around. She's pulled away. I haven't, but am starting to. I have genuine affection that I show through actions. But when these are not reciprocated, after a while I start to wonder.


That's normal. For every action there is a reaction. But you don't live life in a vacuum. You live life in a marriage, and you have no idea why anyone does anything UNLESS you talk to them. So talk to your wife and find out why. Do so with an open mind, because you might not like the answer. But accept it for whatever it is and plan the future on the basis of knowing rather than guessing.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

manwithnoname said:


> It's the other way around. She's pulled away. I haven't, but am starting to. I have genuine affection that I show through actions. But when these are not reciprocated, after a while I start to wonder.


Not initiating sex when you did before is pulling away. If you feel her lack of reciprocation is causing you to do so, then you need to go to a marriage counselor, sex counselor, whatever you have to, but like I said, you are right now deciding to end your marriage through your actions.

If you've already done all those things, then you can say you really made an effort, but if all you've done is complain and then pull away when you didn't get the changes you wanted, then you've made no effort at all.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

breeze said:


> Not initiation sex when you did before is pulling away. If you feel her lack of reciprocation is causing you to do so, then you need to go to a marriage counselor, sex counselor, whatever you have to, but like I said, you are right now deciding to end your marriage through your actions.
> 
> If you've already done all those things, then you can say you really made an effort, but if all you've done is complain and then pull away when you didn't get the changes you wanted, then you've made no effort at all.


Again, she's the one who pulled away by rejecting sex and only providing what she thought was the bare minimum that she thought would be good enough for me. 

Maybe some sort of counselling might be a good idea.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> Again, she's the one who pulled away by rejecting sex and only providing what she thought was the bare minimum that she thought would be good enough for me.
> 
> Maybe some sort of counselling might be a good idea.


Dude, there is no maybe about it.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, has anyone suggested the books Lovebusters and His Needs, Her Needs to you? Both are by Willard Harley. Reading them might give you some insight into how both of you can better meet one another's needs and avoid hurting one another. If she doesn't seem inclined to read them, you do it solo and implement what you learn. Fix your own side of the street so that you're really a partner any woman would be lucky to have. That may be enough to get your wife engaged in truly working on the marriage. And, if it's not and your marriage eventually crumbles anyway, you'll at least be ahead of the curve on being a great partner in the future for some other lucky lady. 

Also, please keep in mind that it's totally normal for people to engage in lovebusters without really realizing it, so try not to get defensive about it. Rather, just look at your own behavior and do better. It's also totally normal for a couple to have very different needs and to place different priorities on those needs. Do not make the mistake of thinking that either your needs or your wife's are any less real and valid, simply because they are not shared.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Rowan said:


> OP, has anyone suggested the books Lovebusters and His Needs, Her Needs to you? Both are by Willard Harley. Reading them might give you some insight into how both of you can better meet one another's needs and avoid hurting one another. If she doesn't seem inclined to read them, you do it solo and implement what you learn. Fix your own side of the street so that you're really a partner any woman would be lucky to have. That may be enough to get your wife engaged in truly working on the marriage. And, if it's not and your marriage eventually crumbles anyway, you'll at least be ahead of the curve on being a great partner in the future for some other lucky lady.
> 
> Also, please keep in mind that it's totally normal for people to engage in lovebusters without really realizing it, so try not to get defensive about it. Rather, just look at your own behavior and do better. It's also totally normal for a couple to have very different needs and to place different priorities on those needs. Do not make the mistake of thinking that either your needs or your wife's are any less real and valid, simply because they are not shared.


Thank you. This is the type of constructive advice I was looking for, rather than the usual blaming, spinning and twisting of facts that is quite common on TAM.

I think some books were recommended on another thread I had started, and have seen these recommended quite often. Which one would be the better one to start with?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

manwithnoname said:


> Thank you. This is the type of constructive advice I was looking for, rather than the usual blaming, spinning and twisting of facts that is quite common on TAM.
> 
> I think some books were recommended on another thread I had started, and have seen these recommended quite often. Which one would be the better one to start with?


Start with Lovebusters. It will show you how to stop draining love from your marriage. Think of a bucket. Meeting your partner's needs fills the bucket. Lovebusters poke holes in the bucket. It's hard to fill a bucket that's full of holes. Just as it's hard to build love if you're also doing things that drain love from your marriage. After you've stopped poking holes in the bucket, His Need, Her Needs will help you figure out how to start filling it up.


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