# Need a Guys Side of this



## helpwelcome09 (Nov 25, 2009)

Today has been a really bad day... 

To start things off I tried my best to make it through a day at work, I had a UTI and ended up coming home half day. I got home and my husband texted me why I didn't let him know I left work. I told him I just got home and that I was sorry. He then texted me and said did it hurt that bad? I ate lunch and then went to bed and slept for 4 hours. I got up after getting interupted countless times by him. I had told him prior to going to bed that he can finish making the bake goods for his coworkers, but decided to help him out with them anyways. We made buckeyes and while they were in the fridge I began to clean. His parents are coming over on Friday for supper. I did 3 loads of laundry, cleaned the bedroom, put my clothes away, cleaned out back porch, scooped litter box, and vaccumed the extra room where the cat stays at night and when we are gone. The whole time I did this he sat on his butt and watched TV. He was watching TV when I got up too from my nap. The only time he wasn't planted in front of the TV was when he helped me mix the buckeye ingredients and that was maybe 15 minutes. 

I have tried to get him to understand how I feel when I am the only person that cleans the house... and when I do it he is sitting in front of the TV. It doesn't seem to sink in or matter to him. I even tried to do what he does by sitting on the couch as soon as I get home and doing nothing all night. The house ended up looking like the house on the Hoarders tv show. I coudldn't stand it anymore and ended up cleaning it again... by myself while he watched TV. It doesn't matter how many times I go in front of the TV to do something he NEVER ask or gets up to help me. 

I don't know what else I can do because he thinks that the house work should be done by me and me alone. I do the laundry, and fold it. He just has to put HIS clothes away but that doesn't happen for about 2 weeks after I put them in a basket in front of his dresser. I have a feeling that on Friday- which I am taking a half day to go to lunch with his coworkers for their Christmas celebration he will expect or tell me to clean the house since I will be home. At this point I will refuse to do it. I am tired to having to do it all and then some.

What can I possibly do to get him to understand that I am not the only person that can clean the house and do stuff inside the house? He thinks that he only has to do the work that is outside and EVERYTHING inside is my responsibilty.


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## Ditajr (Nov 24, 2009)

Maybe I am the wrong person to give advice, but I have realized in the past how many years that he isn't going to do any chores or cooking. Once in awhile he will take clothes from the washer to the dryer...only to let them sit and get wrinkled. I have learned to just be quiet. We both work 40 hours a week. It is just easier not to argue. That isn't to say that I don't believe men should have just as much responsibilities as women though.


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## Nekko (Oct 13, 2009)

Uhm yeah....what seems to work is to treat him nice...give affection, make him understand how loved he is, then slowly start asking for help. Say ok and continue to be happy if he sais no. He'll slowly start doing at least some stuff. When he does, always say thank you and appreciate him. 

Use your femininity...need him to help you with something heavy? Ask for your 'big strong man' to come help. Stroke his ego a bit. This is why most men are nice at the start of a relationship then suddenly stop. Because their women treat them like gods then suddenly stop. Get it? Those little things, appreciation, praising, compliments...we all like them. At the moment helping around is just some dumb responsability for him and he'll try to avoid it (at least that's what it was like for me-and i'm a woman). When i started feeling like i did it and it made my spouse happy i suddenly enjoyed it much more.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm not a guy, but I will tell you what works for me. Two steps that I use at the most important times:

Step 1: Baby, could you help me for just one second? And when he gets up and starts to help I stand behind him and hug him and rub his back and his arm muscles. 

Step 2: Hey babe, I need some help for a minute. Let him come in and help. "God watching you do that is so sexy".

Just as a warning, both of these steps usually end us up in the bedroom, but I'm not complaining!


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## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

How ridiculous this is depends on the division of labor, I think. For some years, I got to clean the gutters, mow the lawn, take care of the mower (change the oil, sharpen the blade, and so on), take care of the cars (including vacuuming them out and washing them in addition to mechanical stuff), clean the shed, empty the mousetraps, do any and all plumbing related chores, and was mostly responsible for shoveling snow and clearing ice.

I did some stuff inside the house too, but mostly I thought of that stuff as her job. It's not like she ever got up on the roof to help with the gutters.

We have more overlap now; she helps me do some no-loud-machines outdoor stuff (raking and tree trimming and the like), and I help her do some indoor stuff. What I discovered for myself doing indoor stuff when she's been out of town for one reason or another is that it's an eternal grind, the same every day. There's no seasonal variation or anything, which makes it seem endless.

What you might do is say nothing about it for a week or two, and just be really nice. Then when you're headed to get some laundry, ask if he can come and help you for a few minutes. When he shows up, give him a basket of sheets and ask him to take it up to the bedroom and you follow along. (If he drops off the basket and goes back to the TV, he'll interpret this as "I'm done", and resent having to go back. so follow him.) When you get there, have him help fold the sheets, which goes quicker with two people. Finish, thank him for helping, give him a kiss, and then head off to put the sheets away. You can do similar things when emptying the dishwasher if there's stuff that you have to reach high to put away, or if you can have him stand on the left and you on the right and he puts away the stuff on his side and you put away the stuff on your side. Make a point of saying something about how his helping saves you time. Ideally, you'll finish up early as a result and have time for wild sex.

What I'm aiming at is you want him to think of some chores as relatively easy, and have positive associations with them, as well as coming to understand that things work out well for him if the chores get done faster.

Remember: Never criticize, condemn, or complain. That makes people justify their actions, and they talk themselves into never changing what they do. If you want to change behavior, ease them into the new behavior and reward cooperation.


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## Beninyourshoes (Jul 31, 2009)

I would have to say the TV is a problem. About 5 years ago we got rid of the cable/satellite because there was so much crap on there that the kids did not need to see. We thought it would be hard at first, but it wasn't. We have since tried ruling out tv all together and spending more time together doing the chores and helping out so that we can get it all done in a timely manner and have more time for family. If you have kids, try having more family time at night playing cards, games, etc...get out from in front of the tv and enjoy each other. 

Most men will find out that a wife that is appreciated around the house is more likely not to cheat, build up inner animosity, and slowly pay the man pack in the bedroom (consciously or subconsciously). Once mamma is happy and the husband gets a new routine going on, life is easier and more fun. I know, I was in that rut one time. As the man I felt like I didn't need to do anything once I got home. Shoot, I had already put in my 12/14 hrs. today. What have you done all day? This is a mans way of thinking whether he admits it or not. Of course I did not say it in those words, but I felt that way a lot of times.

Set him down and explain to him your frustrations and your desires for him to help out around the house. Just be willing to show your gratitude, and rock his world as a reward for good behavior. Both of you will feel better about yourself and your relationship will grow. I would have to say that as a Husband in training, communication starts to break down after we say "I do" and we Men as well as Women sometimes take things for granted and start to build that brick wall. Then comes the problems and peoples lives get ruined, emotions fly off the scale, and your marriage starts to deteriorate. You may say this will never happen to us, but neither did half the other folks on this forum.


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## Wisconsin (Dec 15, 2009)

I grew up in a house hold where my mom did all the chores and I did not have to do anything. What You know what worked for me was when my wife was injured and was unable to do any chores. Suddenly I had to wash all the dishes, do laundry etc. 

I also talked to a lady who's husband was always critical of her cooking and she was at the end of her rope. She too was injured and he had to cook the meals. He made a 180 degree turn. He enjoyed that she complimented his cooking and he never put down her cooking again. 

So fake an injury, get an arm brace or leg brace for a few weeks and then you'll see what kind of guy he really is.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Wear lingere when you do housework. No "fun" until chores are complete.


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## jaxky (Dec 26, 2009)

Atholk said:


> Wear lingere when you do housework. No "fun" until chores are complete.


 simple and straight to the point, you get the idea 

get yourself the latest dating and relationship tips for free


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I think at the end of the day, it all comes down to consideration. It sends a strong message of indifference and disrespect, when a partner in a union repeatedly "shirks" their duties and leaves them for their spouse to "pick up" literally.

I hate the fact that sex frequently gets used as a "good doggie" treat, and I think that this is a very dangerous approach to take in a union. When you solve for location, you see the very same attitudes are prevalent in either situation scenario here. Those attitudes chiefly being selfishness and indifference.

I can understand resentment. I bathe in it frequently. However, using it as a justification to create a failure in another "load bearing" area of your marriage is poor engineering at its best.

I think at the heart of most marital problems lays the simple fact that most men and women communicate somewhat differently. Women if it's a problem, lovingly tell your husbands what you need them to do, when you need it to be done, and how you'd like it done.

Speak to them using the same tones you would use to describe the weather outside. Watch your nonverbals, and inform them what you'll be doing during the period of time that they are to be engaged in the performance of task "X".

If for whatever reason this sage advice doesn't work women, just notify me by post, and I'll kindly return all of the money you paid for this great advice in 8-10 business days. You have my word. LIL


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Well basically he just doesn't get it. The house is a "nest" and subconsciously she completely understands that if she ever has this guys kid, she's going to be a de facto solo mom for all the help he'll offer. So her body agenda just kicks in and shuts down her sexual interest in him. All the whining and *****ing now is just her fitness test at work, and he's failing to respond to that as well.

Unless she's willing to take steps to leave, he will likely not change.

Men have to stop thinking of sex as a right, benefit or a reward. It's simply a natural consequence of creating a sexually appealing presence. Nest management is one of those skills


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*Men have to stop thinking of sex as a right, benefit or a reward. It's simply a natural consequence of creating a sexually appealing presence. Nest management is one of those skills [/QUOTE]*

Atholk, you need to ease off the ol' egg nog a bit. Sex absolutely is a "reward" based on the argument you are presenting with this "nest management" nonsense.

It ought not to be. With that thought I do agree, but it most definitely is a "right" within a marriage. If you're only supposed to have sex with your spouse, than perhaps it's a good idea that they oblige you on occasion. Just one man's thought's. LIL


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

lastinline said:


> Atholk, you need to ease off the ol' egg nog a bit. Sex absolutely is a "reward" based on the argument you are presenting with this "nest management" nonsense.
> 
> It ought not to be. With that thought I do agree, but it most definitely is a "right" within a marriage. If you're only supposed to have sex with your spouse, than perhaps it's a good idea that they oblige you on occasion. Just one man's thought's. LIL


Women are just as sexually motivated as men, maybe even more so, and if you can present a sexually appealing presence, they will come to you. Most women respond with with geniune interest in a man that can actually tidy up after himself. It's by no means some magic skill that instantly turns all panties wet, but it certainly doesn't dry them out.

I mean basic housecleaning and cooking etc are just are normal life skills. You'd have to do that yourself if she wasn't here. Really think cleaning your own crap up means you should get laid as a prize makes any headway with most women?

What I'm saying is.... women react to men doing housework etc, the same way men react to seeing cleavage. It just makes them very _interested_ 

As to the "hey we're married, what the heck am I supposed to do about sex if I don't have it with you" argument. Yes I agree - personally I think many women "cheat" their husbands out of their agreement. However unless you are making yourself sexually appealing to her, all you're really doing is trying to force her into your bed. Most times this is is counter-productive as she is likely to step back from your even further.

My approach to advancing this argument, is that it is best done after trying to raise your overall attractiveness over several months. This is an ultimatium of sorts, so always always be careful about using it.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

Just to chime in on my opinion... Either at work, or at home, there is a huge pile of stuff that has to be done. Even more and harder to do when kids are involved, one person is traveling, or when the family is breaking up. It doesn't matter who does it! Laundry needs to be done. Cooking needs to be done, bills need to be paid, things need repairing, lawn, leaves, driveways, carwashes, babies changed and bathed, etc.

WHO CARES WHO DOES IT!?!? Personally, I am embarassed if I'm sitting when there is a bunch to do. Yeah, maybe I may sit and take a breather or play with the girls for 10 minutes, but thats about it. Not only that, but I'm offended if W has plopped her but in front of the computer or something when I'm working. 

Why does it need to involve rewards, or looking sexy or ego stroking? Just get it done! Both of you! Besides, when it is done by both of you, there is more time fofr hanky panky anyway! If someone doesn't realize this, they need a slap in the face!


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

My approach to advancing this argument, is that it is best done after trying to raise your overall attractiveness over several months. This is an ultimatium of sorts, so always always be careful about using it. 


Atholk, I'm not tracking your message here. I understand the whole housework thing, when it comes to cleanliness I'm "double whammied". Given both my military and medical backgrounds, I'm practically OCD.

Hands down, I am cleaner and clean more than she does. Only the bravest of our kids would ever contemplate using her bathroom. However, mine gets used constantly despite it being located on the wrong end of the house, simply because it's clean.

I understand though that your statement has merrit, because I resent my wife for not doing more around the house...especially because she is a SAHM.

What I'd like to see you flesh out is the "road map" for raising your overall attractiveness that you described. I figure it would be a tremendous public service for us poor souls who are just flailing around out here. Save us. LIL


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

lastinline said:


> My approach to advancing this argument, is that it is best done after trying to raise your overall attractiveness over several months. This is an ultimatium of sorts, so always always be careful about using it.
> 
> 
> Atholk, I'm not tracking your message here. I understand the whole housework thing, when it comes to cleanliness I'm "double whammied". Given both my military and medical backgrounds, I'm practically OCD.
> ...


Basically any time a husband says to a wife what amounts to, "I got married to have a certain amount of sex, and I'm not getting it" the unspoken but implied statement is, "give me that amount of sex, or I am going to divorce you, or cheat on you". So it's an ultimatum whether he knows it or not.

So a male 4 saying that to a female 6 really isn't going to like the results of forcing the issue. She's going to screw him a couple times to throw him off the scent, and just plan her exit. But if he can take some time, figure out what he's doing wrong, make adjustments, and turn himself into a 6, the ultimatum seems like a far more reasonable request. Plus she's going to naturally just want to have sex with him. If he hits 7, he's a probably not even going to have to make the ultimatum to her.

In your particular case LIL, I think things are complicated. I think most women would be excited to have a buff, clean, honest, professional husband with a good income. Unfortunately in your case, the only thing that she seems to find attractive is wheelbarrows of money. So, _in her eyes,_ she sold herself short. Most women would likely disagree though.

I'm going to start the blog and book expedition shortly LIL. This is a fairly private arena, that will be far more public and I'll be identifiable, and therefore so will my wife by default as well. We talked over dinner tonight about it, and I have the green light from her on the project. TAM is extremely helpful and good, but it's very difficult to construct the overall approach and argument I want to make here. I don't plan to be "leaving TAM", just expanding myself. It just seems like the right move.


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## beninneedofhelp (Nov 24, 2009)

I dont no but i would say talk to him about it and how you feel let him no if he dont start helping your only going to do what needs to be done for you and what you think is a must things might get messy but he may get the point or you can do the extreme and tell him things have to change or else type of thing but it dont stand to reason to be complacent or not say anything just to "keep the peace " doing that will only bring you hurt and pain and resentment till it bubbles to the surface and you explode with it anyways so its better to face things up front sooner then it is later and see where it gets you


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

helpwelcome09 said:


> ... It doesn't matter how many times I go in front of the TV to do something he NEVER ask or gets up to help me.


There are three possibilities:

1) Your husband does not participate because of the way you are.
2) Your husband does not participate because of the way he is.
3) Your husband does not participate because of a combination the way you both are.

I tend to think that most times, husbands do not participate because of the behaviour of their wives.

First of all, _*there is no help, there is only responsibility*_. Failure to understand this is the most important reason why women slowly kill themselves with housework.

If you are honest with yourself, you will know that the physical burden of housework is much less than the mental burden of housework. What use is it for your husband to "get off his butt" and wash the dishes if you have to tell him to do it, then get mad at him to convince him to do it, then listen to him banging away at the sink to show his frustration, then supervise what he is doing, and then find that he has not done them to your standards.

The only way for your burden to diminish is if your husband takes complete responsibility for 50% of household tasks. From that moment on, those tasks no longer exist for you. You don't think about them, you don't plan for them, you don't notice when or how they are done.

It is my guess that your husband is moderately close to ready to move into this kind of responsibility model.

It is my guess that you are completely unread to allow your husband to take responsibility for anything.

As such, it is my guess that you are the primary cause of your own pain and suffering.

Let go.


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## AlexNY (Dec 10, 2009)

helpwelcome09 said:


> He just has to put HIS clothes away but that doesn't happen for about 2 weeks after I put them in a basket in front of his dresser.


My wife currently does the laundry. I plan on wrestling that task away from her over the next few months (this will be an epic battle), but as of right now she cleans and folds.

Sometimes it takes me 2-3 days to put away folded clothes that are in a basket right in front of my closet. To my very exhausted wife, 2-3 days may well seem like weeks.

I am responsible for maintaining the hearth. That means foraging for about 10 large trees every year. Bucking, cutting, splitting, stacking, drying, moving, and burning 20 tons of firewood takes me about 800 hours per year.

About three months ago, I asked my wife to sew me a 100lb capacity firewood bag. Commercial firewood bags hold 30lb at most and are badly made. Years ago, my wife made me a custom firewood bag that suits my physical strength and the layout of my hearth (the bag also acts as a dispenser, which prevents bits of bark and such from littering the hearth). After many years of service, it disintegrated. So I asked for another one.

That was three months ago. I purchased the heavy canvas and the reinforcement bars. Still no bag.

The problem is that I am asking for my wife's _help_. Help is an awful way to get anything done. Sometimes it is unavoidable. I don't know how to sew, so I need her help. But, it is not her _project_. She has no motivation to do it. So it takes forever. Just like it takes forever for your husband to put away his clothes.

That is why help is a bad way to proceed. I need no encouragement to perform the tasks that are my _responsibility_. I enjoy doing them. Once your husband has full responsibility for a task he will organize, try, sometimes fail, learn, try better, and eventually take pride and find joy in what he does. That is the beauty of buy-in. I love washing the dishes. But that means my wife backs off on my task. I do it how I want, when I want, and according to my plan. I choose the kind of detergent, the kind of sponge, the sink layout (double sink with small on left), the kind of faucet (single action lever with HUGE clearance), etc. I take credit when I do it well, and responsibility when I fail.

Most women expect their husband do act like an extra pair of hands, doing things the wife's way, on the wife's schedule, according to the wife's plan. This is never going to work. Your husband's hands are attached to his brain, his hopes, his dreams, and his plans ... not yours. If you want relief, you need to let go first. Your husband will begin his new life of responsibility with a lot of fumbling. It takes time to learn to do something completely new. But in the end he will know the joy of returning to a home that is his, as opposed to a hotel run by his wife. It is a much richer, much more fulfilling life. The hurdle that stands in his way is _you_.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

AlexNY said:


> The problem is that I am asking for my wife's _help_. Help is an awful way to get anything done. Sometimes it is unavoidable. I don't know how to sew, so I need her help. But, it is not her _project_. She has no motivation to do it. So it takes forever.


Just start trying to sew the bag yourself. She'll swoop in and "do it right". You'll have your bag by the end of the week.


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