# Living Together While Separated



## emily93

I really want to separate from my husband. He is by no means a bad man, or abusive, or anything like that. I just don't love him anymore, maybe I never did - I'm not sure. Unfortunately, we have no extra money for one of us to move out and we live in NYC, so naturally our apartment is very small. I fully intend on going through the divorce process. So reconciliation isn't really an option, but I have learned that anything is possible. 

How does this work? I almost feel like we can't really be "separated" if we're still living together, especially in a small 1 BR apartment. I thought and searched so for long and so deep inside me, I know it's done. I feel guilty when I touch him. I can't kiss him, I haven't said "I love you" in nearly a month. We work completely opposite schedules so it's very difficult finding a time to talk. I know it's going to destroy him, which is why I think it will be so much harder if we're still living in such small quarters together.

Has anyone else had a similar situation?


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## MGirl

How long have you been married?


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## PBear

So what are you planning on doing when you "really" separate? Spend the next 50 years living together but not married? At some point, one of you (or both of you) will have to move out.

C


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## emily93

MGirl said:


> How long have you been married?


4 Years


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## emily93

PBear said:


> So what are you planning on doing when you "really" separate? Spend the next 50 years living together but not married? At some point, one of you (or both of you) will have to move out.
> 
> C


I have no idea. I drastically reduced what I was putting into my 401k to give us a little cushion. I don't want to stay married just because we can't afford to pay 2 rents right now.


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## PBear

emily93 said:


> I have no idea. I drastically reduced what I was putting into my 401k to give us a little cushion. I don't want to stay married just because we can't afford to pay 2 rents right now.


I can appreciate that... But at some point, you're going to have to have an answer to that question. So start looking for a room-mate or a new location to live in, I guess... Announcing you want a separation without actually separating and being confined to a small space just seems cruel to everyone.

Can I ask, though? I've always heard how expensive it is to live in NYC. How much does a 1 bdrm appt cost there? Just ball-park... I don't want to know your financial deets! 

C


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## MGirl

PBear said:


> Announcing you want a separation without actually separating and being confined to a small space just seems cruel to everyone.


*Agreed. * Especially when you've said that he is very much in love with you. 

Quick question. I know you said in your other thread that you knew you didn't love him when you married him. Was there_ never_ any excitement, any passion, any joy from being with him?


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## emily93

PBear said:


> I can appreciate that... But at some point, you're going to have to have an answer to that question. So start looking for a room-mate or a new location to live in, I guess... Announcing you want a separation without actually separating and being confined to a small space just seems cruel to everyone.
> 
> Can I ask, though? I've always heard how expensive it is to live in NYC. How much does a 1 bdrm appt cost there? Just ball-park... I don't want to know your financial deets!
> 
> C


So should I find a place to live, and then tell him? What if he doesn't want to be in our apartment with all of our things and pictures? Or what if he wants to move back home (we moved here from Illinois)?

It is ridiculously expensive here, it depends where you live, amenities, etc.. and how long of a commute you can deal with. It's about $1400-2500


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## emily93

MGirl said:


> *Agreed. * Especially when you've said that he is very much in love with you.
> 
> Quick question. I know you said in your other thread that you knew you didn't love him when you married him. Was there_ never_ any excitement, any passion, any joy from being with him?



We have fun together. He's definitely taught me a lot. But I don't ever remember passion, or thinking of him and smiling, or checking my phone to see if he called. I started working for his father about 6 months into dating him. It just got really awkward from there. It was a very small company, everyone there knew my husband from the day he was born. I'd do a thousand things differently if I could...


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## PBear

My thought... You should have a plan, at the very least. Some options (what would you do if he wants to leave the apartment, what would you do if he wants you to leave). For example, a friend you can move in with, even if it's onto a couch temporarily. And because your name is on the apartment lease (I'm assuming) you're still as responsible for that as he is, so keep that in mind. As in, if he decides to head back home, then both of you are on the hook for the lease penalties, if any.

I guess I'm just saying to be aware that you're the one pushing this decision onto him, and you're not (it seems) willing to try to work through things while still at home. He's likely to be blind-sided by this, no matter how aware he is of there being a problem with your relationship. Because you're driving, then it seems like it must be your responsibility to have at least a semblence of a plan BEFORE taking a wrecking ball to your lives.

I'm the one that initiated our separation. Prior to doing that, I crunched numbers for several months to make sure that we could work through things financially. I'm the primary income provideder; actually, right now I'm the ONLY income provider. But because I still care about my wife and kids, I took it as my responsibility to have a plan to make sure we were provided for as best I could. It hasn't worked out the way I had in mind (she was supposed to go back to work 2 months ago, and hasn't yet), but we're making do and getting by. So I can appreciate your concerns. 

In my case, I'm living in a friend's basement suite that's about the size of some hotel rooms I've stayed in; one large room with bed, desk, "entertainment" area, and shared kitchen and laundry facilities. It's "cozy", it's not really suitable for having the kids come over for any extended visits, but it's MY place and a springboard for my future. And it's relatively cheap ($700/month), so it fits in our joint budget. At some point soon, I'm going to have to start pushing for my stbx-wife to become more self-sufficient.

C


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## emily93

Thanks. I only really started thinking about around 6 weeks ago. I just decreased my 401k last week, that's really the only extra income I could find for us. I do care about him and want to make sure he'll be okay. I'm also the primary income provider, and I have no intention of "screwing him over". I fully intend to pay off our debt, and help him get on his feet. We have no children, only a couple pets. I don't mind waiting to separate, I just feel like I'm living a lie. I feel like that is more cruel than the actual separation will be.


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## PBear

Mmmm, I would suspect he'd disagree about living the lie being more cruel than the actual separation... It's good of you to be concerned about how you'll both make ends meet after. Come up with any ideas of how you'll make things work after? What do other people in your situation do in NYC?

For me, having the room-mate thing hasn't been too bad, although it's taken some getting used to. Mine isn't home very often at all, so I only see him about once a week. Kinda strange, actually... 

C


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## Dedicated2Her

Not to be a jerk, BUT, what in the world are you thinking? Did you make vows? Did you make a covenant to love this man for the rest of your life? Well, if you did, you might want to have just a tiny bit of integrity here. You need to get into marriage counseling as soon as possible and at least try. You said you guys work alternate shift so it is hard to talk. OF COURSE YOU DON"T "FEEL" IN LOVE WITH HIM. You are not getting your emotional needs met. This is your priority: "Your marriage comes before your job, money, etc." Get your priorities straight, and maybe, just maybe, you find something that was there all along.

My wife hasn't said "I love you" in three months. Before that, it was 4 months. She says she has no "love" feelings for me anymore. However, you get your butt in counseling and try. If it doesn't end up working out, FINE. But, at least, be honest with him and yourself and work TOGETHER on this problem.


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## emily93

Dedicated2Her said:


> Not to be a jerk, BUT, what in the world are you thinking? Did you make vows? Did you make a covenant to love this man for the rest of your life? Well, if you did, you might want to have just a tiny bit of integrity here. You need to get into marriage counseling as soon as possible and at least try. You said you guys work alternate shift so it is hard to talk. OF COURSE YOU DON"T "FEEL" IN LOVE WITH HIM. You are not getting your emotional needs met. This is your priority: "Your marriage comes before your job, money, etc." Get your priorities straight, and maybe, just maybe, you find something that was there all along.
> 
> My wife hasn't said "I love you" in three months. Before that, it was 4 months. She says she has no "love" feelings for me anymore. However, you get your butt in counseling and try. If it doesn't end up working out, FINE. But, at least, be honest with him and yourself and work TOGETHER on this problem.


Ummm...Wow. Okay. I have done all that. I put my marriage first. I put it before everything. I tried and tried for 4 years. I went to counseling, individual and marriage. I've read books. I fully exhausted myself. I've cried and cried and cried. This wasn't some on the whim decision. I fully 100% believe in marriage and trying everything to work through things, but sometimes people make HUGE mistakes - in my case maybe it was just getting married too young, maybe to a man I knew deep down I didn't truly love, maybe marrying someone to please my family and his family instead of worrying about myself and who I loved. I find it extremely offensive that you are judging me on this ONE post, like I just woke up the other day and decided I didn't want to be married. Saying I have no integrity? How dare you! I'm doing everything possible to make sure he'll be okay. He deserves someone who will truly love him, not someone who married him because his family loved me or my family loved him. I fully accept the consequences of my actions and am trying to make the best of a shi**y situation. And don't tell me to get my priorities straight. This post was after several years of being unhappy, and talking and talking and talking, of being alone, of trying, of heartbreak. Just because I didn't put the ENTIRE story out there doesn't mean there isn't more to it than the 10 lines I put.


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## Dedicated2Her

Perhaps you should put more details if you want advice on a message board in the future. It's not judging. It called a wake up call based upon the information that you put out there. When you put stuff like you did, you make is sound as though he KNOWS NOTHING about your feelings. 



> I know it's going to destroy him, which is why I think it will be so much harder if we're still living in such small quarters together.


THIS puts out the vibe that you have NOT been to marriage counseling. If you have been to as much as you say, it will not destroy him. He SHOULD know it is coming.



> I'm doing everything possible to make sure he'll be okay.


Problem is. You won't be ok. Something down deep inside you needs healing. Seperation is not going to change that or divorce.


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## brighterlight

Emily93, Although I understand what Dedicated is trying to say, I disagree with him. If you have no feelings for him and do not want to try to reconcile and your mind is made up then I think that going your separate ways is the best option. You are still very young, you have no children, your marriage is 4 years old. Your situation, although no one wants to be there, is actually better than a lot of folks on here that have kids and have been married many years. Yes, it will be VERY painful for him and he will be hurt and possibly angry for a long time but you are not being fair to either of you by not talking to him about this. It is really up to you as to whether or not you feel there is a possibilty of getting back together. If you HONESTLY feel like you don't want to stay in your marriage, then don't for both of your sakes. I do not tell you that lightly, I am catholic and we don't believe in divorce but guess what, my wife dropped the D word on me after 36 years of building memories with our 3 children - it is awful!!! All I can advise you of is don't make the same mistake we did. If you are not or never were in love with him, for whatever reason you married, it was a mistake. An incredibly stupid HUGE one at that but without happiness you can not be good role models for your future kids if you were to have any. 

On the other hand, if you feel like you are just waffling around on this and you have any last bit of love for him, then it's definitely worth it to continue to fight for your marriage.

I'm just sayin', don't stay in a loveless relationship for both your sakes. I hope that, if and when you break the news to him, that his suffering will not be a long one and that he will come to understand that he deserves someone that will love, honor, and cherish him - I can't stress enough what it is like to be in a marriage where your partner does not in love with you, it leads to an empty void in your heart and lot of sacrifice and you are just in survival mode for the rest of your life. YOU HAVE TO HAVE LOVE ON BOTH SIDES for this to work. Just my .02 worth.

BTW, my comment is taking into account that you already talked about this and went to IC and MC. Obviously that is the right path. It's a self check to make sure you are not going to make another mistake by breaking up the marriage.


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## Dedicated2Her

Hmmm. I like what brighterlight said, and from his point of view that is how he sees it. Know this: Happiness only comes from within. You can honor what you can honor. I do know one thing. God honors people who honor covenants, especially, one's they make with HIM. So, while it may seem dim and dark in your current "reality", you never know what is over the horizon.

I am IN a marriage where love doesn't exists. It does suck. I have 4 kids, and I know what brighterlight is saying. However, to initiate a divorce based upon "feelings" is not to truly love someone. Love is a verb. The emotions are always 10 steps behind the actions. My therapist has seen couples from arranged marriages fall madly in love with each other through couples counseling when love NEVER existed. Other people will not make you happy. Only YOU can find that within yourself.


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## brighterlight

Dedicated, agreed! I stuck it out 36 years because not only did I love her (and I still do) but because I was honoring the vows I made in front of God. I would have lived my whole life with her. But the ugly truth is that if you both don't commit that way, then the marriage will fall apart. It has to be both of you feeling that commitment; and she didn't/couldn't. I see my parents as an example and I am ashamed of my situation although I an not the one that wanted the divorce. My mother and father both have their faults and they irritate each other quite often, but they have stuck it out 52 years and will for the rest of their lives.

I don't take it lightly if I advise someone to leave a marriage but I see that in this situation, they are young with no children and she is not in love with him (I think). And they are not starting together like an arranged marriage, which I have seen grown into love. This is the other way, they have been together for 4 years and she has fallen out of love. I am torn about this situation, really I am, but I would hate to see both of them unhappy forever.


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## Dedicated2Her

> This is the other way, they have been together for 4 years and she has fallen out of love.


And with the right mentors and support system could find some MAJOR interesting things underneath with patience. There is something missing in each one of them that will hinder them in the future if it is not fixed. They can stick it out and become "whole" people together. Which will most likely lead to a love that is greater and deeper than anything they ever thought possible. OR, they can start over. 

I've read your story brighterlight. I understand and am sorry for what you have gone through. However, I have a wife that had made her decision. She was done. She had no hope. Even as recent as March she said, "I just have no love feelings for you." However, time goes by. You experience life together. People mentor you and help you rearrange your life to maximize the relationship. Things slowly change. Before you know it, you start doing little things for the other person. You start to put them first in ways you never thought about. There is a sweetness brewing in my marriage that has NEVER been there. If she or I walks before the fruition, we miss out on the greatest blessing that we possibly could have been given. 

Problem is, Emily could very well have this demise in her next relationship if she doesn't cure what is going on inside her before she leaves.


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## Dedicated2Her

> Shortly after we got married, I started saying how it didn't feel right. We went to see a marriage counselor once. My husband isn't exactly the talking type, he didn't like it and we never went back. I thought part of our problem might be that we lived in the town he grew up in, with all of his same friends and family. He relied heavily on their thoughts. So, 2 years ago we packed and moved 1,000 miles away. I thought it might be better if it were just the two of us. It did. We have grown closer, we do things together instead of as a massive group. But my heart just doesn't feel like his. I've thought about divorce/separation several times, but everytime I used the argument of "I can't do that to him" He really is such a great guy, and I do feel terrible for the heartbreak I'm about to cause him. Part of me wonders if I should just stay with him, maybe he is the best thing for me, but then I think 'I deserve to be in love too, right?' I want to make sure he'll be okay after we split up (I make signficantly more than him). I have started saving some money. We don't really own anything so that isn't an issue. I wanted to keep him on my health insurance, but I want to be able to move on with my life. It seems like that would be harder for both of us if we're still married.


Emily, you wrote this on another thread. You went to see a marriage counselor------ONCE. Here is how you handle your husband. Tell him you are going to marriage counseling or you are leaving....period. I will stick to my previous statement in thinking......Sounds like he doesn't know how bad things are. Do it for YOU. So you have NO REGRETS and so you know that you are "set up for success" in your relationships going forward.

If you have any desire to try, pick up "The Love Dare" and do it. Just do it.

Here is your previous thread below:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/25022-something-better-than-nothing.html


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## brighterlight

Yip Dedicated, I agree but it is my wife that said there is no hope left. We tried a short term separation back in 2009. It was OK after that for a while but then fell apart again. I don't think she has felt any real deep love for me for a very long time. Believe me, I know what you mean by what you are saying but if she does not want to give that a try, I can not force that on her. I would like her to change (although there is permanent damage now between my mother, sister and her but that is another story) she choses not too. We have been to IC and MC on several occasions over the last 10 years.

Also, there are several other things that may be different between you and me. How long have you been married? Are there still young children in your life, etc? Alot of that weighs heavily into the equation as well. My wife is not willing to change her opinion of how she wants me to be, she is imposing conditions on me that I can not meet to her satisfaction, so as long as the conditions are there, I can't be myself; she won't allow me to so I will not be that way. I am a good caring loving father and husband and I have never cheated on her, nor have I been decietful to her. I've lived my life honourably and with dignity. She told me she resents me for putting her in the situation for asking for a D. Well, resent is a powerful word to someone who loves you and has dedicated his entire life to you, and has been there through serious illness and injury. I am the one that is wanting to stay in the marriage, she is out. I wish it were different. Her issues with me - my weight (and i am not that much overweight believe me - 40lbs over. and a lot of people tell me I am a pretty good looking guy; not bragging just trying to make a point), and mainly her issue is what she calls, my pessimistic attitude. I take the blame for that, it is my personality, I am an engineer, science kind of person. It's in my nature to forecast problems. I think she just felt exhausted keeping up with that. To be honest, I consider myself middle of the road. On many (probably about 50/50) I have looked at terrible situations in a more optimistic view than she has. So there you are, weight and "negative attitude". OK, I can buy that, I have heard the saying that you can actually be influenced to feel a certain way by being around people and depending on their attitude, you can be happy or miserable. I guess she was miserable. And those two issues were apparently enough to swing her to the leaving side. Oh yeah, not to mention that she faced a life threatening disease last year for 13 months. I was by her side suffering with her every step of the way. So I am not a happy camper right now but all in all, I can live with myself because I did the best I could for all those years and I would not have traded all that time for the world.

I will be losing those 40 lbs soon now that I don't have "other responsibilities" getting in my way.

Oops, sorry Emily, I did not mean to hijack your post. I wrote this just to point out that, it will be OK for both of us to be happy - both of us although right now I am hurting deeply but I know I also can not continue to live in a loveless relationship.


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## MGirl

brighterlight said:


> And they are not starting together like an arranged marriage, which I have seen grown into love. This is the other way, they have been together for 4 years and she has fallen out of love. I am torn about this situation, really I am, but I would hate to see both of them unhappy forever.


I believe she was never in love with him to begin with. That's the real issue here. If there was love in the beginning, I believe that it could be revived, but it appears there is nothing _to_ revive.


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## Dedicated2Her

We have been married 12 years, and, yes, we have 4 young ones. 9,7,5, and 3. Fortunate for me, my wife is a "fighter". She doesn't give up easy. I have years of "walls" to take down of hers and some that came into the marriage. We also have an AMAZING therapist. 

Have you ever read, "Winning your wife back before it's too late" ?? Great book. It helps you develop yourself and find victory regardless of the outcome. 

Also, Emily, I'm not intentionally trying to be hard on you. I just see red flags.


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## Dedicated2Her

> I believe she was never in love with him to begin with. That's the real issue here. If there was love in the beginning, I believe that it could be revived, but it appears there is nothing to revive.


I made this statement in a therapy session, and my therapist told me that is bs. That is when she gave me examples of arranged marriages that never had love. Came in to see her to give it one last shot and fell madly in love with each other. Perception. It's all a matter of perception.


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## brighterlight

Absolutely it is all a matter of perception. It's a chioce one makes in their heart. So sad though when the other does not see that becuase she is so bitter. So sad.


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## MGirl

Dedicated2Her said:


> I made this statement in a therapy session, and my therapist told me that is bs. That is when she gave me examples of arranged marriages that never had love. Came in to see her to give it one last shot and fell madly in love with each other. Perception. It's all a matter of perception.


Okay, yes, I agree. If they have the right marriage counselor and are both working diligently to try to make it work, it could happen. But she seems to have completely given up at this point.


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## Dedicated2Her

> Okay, yes, I agree. If they have the right marriage counselor and are both working diligently to try to make it work, it could happen. But she seems to have completely given up at this point.


I know. Hope is SUCH a POWERFUL thing. If you have hope, all things are possible with the right guidance. I just don't want her to give up. If she truly married her best friend as she says, there is a way.


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## Dedicated2Her

> Absolutely it is all a matter of perception. It's a chioce one makes in their heart. So sad though when the other does not see that becuase she is so bitter. So sad.


Yes. I do believe your wife will regret her actions someday. Have you ever read "Redeeming Love" by Francine Rivers? It is a novel based upon the book of Hosea. I just got done with it. Absolutely amazing and very uplifting for someone who is waiting for the "heart" issues in the marriage or former marriage to be healed. SSSSSSOOOOOOO encouraging.


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## brighterlight

Dedicated2Her said:


> Yes. I do believe your wife will regret her actions someday. Have you ever read "Redeeming Love" by Francine Rivers? It is a novel based upon the book of Hosea. I just got done with it. Absolutely amazing and very uplifting for someone who is waiting for the "heart" issues in the marriage or former marriage to be healed. SSSSSSOOOOOOO encouraging.


No I have not read it but I will read it; it sounds like something I need to read right now. Thanks.

So here is my personal view about my marriage. Unfortunely, not my wife's view. She's done! Of course in Emily's case, was there really love to begin with. Yes, the following is old hat stuff but do we really abide by it, for many of us I think not. Really sad because those words are a wonderful gift to us if we accept them unconditionally.

Corinthians 13:4-8

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.


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## bestplayer

emily93 said:


> Ummm...Wow. Okay. I have done all that. I put my marriage first. I put it before everything. I tried and tried for 4 years. I went to counseling, individual and marriage. I've read books. I fully exhausted myself. I've cried and cried and cried. This wasn't some on the whim decision. I fully 100% believe in marriage and trying everything to work through things, but sometimes people make HUGE mistakes - in my case maybe it was just getting married too young, maybe to a man I knew deep down I didn't truly love, maybe marrying someone to please my family and his family instead of worrying about myself and who I loved. I find it extremely offensive that you are judging me on this ONE post, like I just woke up the other day and decided I didn't want to be married. Saying I have no integrity? How dare you! I'm doing everything possible to make sure he'll be okay. He deserves someone who will truly love him, not someone who married him because his family loved me or my family loved him. I fully accept the consequences of my actions and am trying to make the best of a shi**y situation. And don't tell me to get my priorities straight. This post was after several years of being unhappy, and talking and talking and talking, of being alone, of trying, of heartbreak. Just because I didn't put the ENTIRE story out there doesn't mean there isn't more to it than the 10 lines I put.


and what does your other man thinks about your situation ?


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## Dedicated2Her

Well said brighterlight. On the other hand, I did lose that 40 pounds. Doing p90x. Now I have a wife who is working out everyday.


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## PBear

bestplayer said:


> and what does your other man thinks about your situation ?


I think that was rude and uncalled for. 

C


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## brighterlight

I have a buddy of mine that did the p90x and it worked out pretty good for him. I might try it but I am more of a jogger/walker/baseball/golf type so weights are not my forte.


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## Dedicated2Her

Just get some resistance bands and pull up bar. It is a brutal workout regime, but it has really turned the tables. I've got my wife working very hard on her physique, and that has NEVER happened.


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## PBear

Focus, guys... Remember the OP?

C


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## brighterlight

PBear said:


> I think that was rude and uncalled for.
> 
> C


bestplayer,

I agree with PBear. Unless you are the husband and you know something we are not aware of on this thread, your comment is uncalled for? Folks come on this forum to ask for help, seek advice, ideas, support - not to be scolded. C'mon man!


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## MGirl

PBear said:


> I think that was rude and uncalled for.
> 
> C


Extremely.


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## Dedicated2Her

Sorry. Emily you are more than welcome to respond. Don't feel judged. People that post on here have problems just like you. A lot of us just have a heart for it and don't want to see others pay dearly for mistakes. Let us know if you need help.


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## emily93

It's okay. My mind is just going a thousand directions, while circling at the same time. Thank you PBear, Dedicated2Her, Brighterlight, MGirl for "sticking up for me". There is no other man, just to clarify. It isn't a matter of wanting to be with someone else, as much as not wanting to be with my husband and that he should have someone that does love him. We have no children, although I desperately want them. I never wanted kids to be a "fix" for us. I've seen too many people do that. They're having problems, so they have a kid and things are surfacey okay and then it gets worse and now there's children involved.

The reason we never went back to counseling is that my husband didn't want to. He said we should be able to work it out on our own without someone else. But we never did. He doesn't like confrontation or talking about his feelings or mine. He isn't mean, he just gets uncomfortable with it. He just wants everything to *be* okay, not to have to work at it.

I should mention that he is a very natural relationship person, he's very dependant, he functions well in a relationship - one with no problems. I am not. I was raised to be a very strong independant woman, to not "need a man" to be happy. I had one small relationship at the beginning of high school (~4months) and he broke my heart. After that I realized my parents were right. I never dated anyone until my husband. His parents instantly loved me, and my parents loved him. I knew he would always treat me right and never leave me, so it made sense to marry him. I know that was wrong. For a while I thought my independance was hindering my ability to grow closer to him. I tried talking to him about it. I really cannot count how many times I waited up for him to get off work to talk. I hate crying, and I cried myself to sleep nearly every night for the first 2 years we were married. I wish I could say it does or doesn't have something to do with working different schedules, but I truly can't.

Another huge issue, is that my husband is an atheist. I am not. However, since we've been together, I have grown farther and farther away. Another reason we haven't had kids, I can't see successfully raising children in a home where one parent believes in God and another doesn't.


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## Dedicated2Her

> He doesn't like confrontation or talking about his feelings or mine. He isn't mean, he just gets uncomfortable with it. He just wants everything to be okay, not to have to work at it.


Hmmm. So, would it be fair to say that he can't handle tension? So, therefore, can't handle your emotions? Sounds like he has been "protected" by family his whole life? Gosh, it is so amazing how many relationship are impacted by the SAME things. Of course you don't love him, he is not a strong man! Now, I'm pretty hard on this kind of stuff, but if he doesn't want to put in the work............

Emily. This is his deal. If he knew his identity and who he was and was comfortable with that, he would have "strength" to face tension and embrace it which would actually HELP your 'love' problem.



> he's very dependant


Not a good quality if a man is trying to be attractive.

My advice, he needs to get his butt a good mentor or individual male therapist. In addition, you guys need marriage counseling. If he is unwilling, there is NOTHING you can do but PRAY. However, if he is that weak where he won't face his demons in order to TRY to save his marriage to the woman he loves, you definitely have a right to cry every night and walk away. He has already gone against his vows.


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## emily93

We never fight, part of his avoiding confrontation. If I disagree with something he says or does, he just apologizes and moves on. I know this seems good, but somehow it isn't. All the emotions that should come out, don't. I'm not sure exactly how to explain it, it just doesn't seem right


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## Dedicated2Her

> We never fight, part of his avoiding confrontation. If I disagree with something he says or does, he just apologizes and moves on. I know this seems good, but somehow it isn't. All the emotions that should come out, don't. I'm not sure exactly how to explain it, it just doesn't seem right


Yep. How is his relationship with his father? Most likely, he has lost his identity as a man. He sounds like he really needs some self confidence and self worth. By not valuing himself, he has not valued you. Therefore, it is impossible for you two to "grow" together because all the deep conversation never happens because he is scared to "rock the boat" or dissapoint you. That is why I suggest individual counseling in addition to marriage. He's got to fix his issues. Did he live with family when you guys met or by himself?


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## emily93

Dedicated2Her said:


> Hmmm. So, would it be fair to say that he can't handle tension? So, therefore, can't handle your emotions? Sounds like he has been "protected" by family his whole life?.


Yes. Yes. Yes. He ALWAYS chooses his family over me. I know it's a petty example, but it really gets to me every year. My birthday is right after Christmas, so naturally it always gets overlooked. It also falls on my Grandmother's birthday and my husband's career mentor's birthday. Until we moved, he would always spend the day with his mentor and leave me hanging. Now that we've moved, he'll work so that he can take time off when HIS family comes in January. I almost feel like he takes advantage of the fact that I am strong, and not whiny, but come one! It's my birthday  He is very dependant on his parents. He always wants to call them whenever we have money troubles, not that they're rich, but they're 'comfortable'.

[QUOTE/]This is his deal. If he knew his identity and who he was and was comfortable with that, he would have "strength" to face tension and embrace it which would actually HELP your 'love' problem.?.[/QUOTE]




Not a good quality if a man is trying to be attractive.

My advice, he needs to get his butt a good mentor or individual male therapist. In addition, you guys need marriage counseling. If he is unwilling, there is NOTHING you can do but PRAY. However, if he is that weak where he won't face his demons in order to TRY to save his marriage to the woman he loves, you definitely have a right to cry every night and walk away. He has already gone against his vows.[/QUOTE]



I agree. Although, I don't like ultimatums. I don't think I should have to say counseling or I'm gone, especially when I've tried as much as I have and brought up counseling. I feel like he should want to save us, if there is anything to save. Maybe my standards are just too high... I feel like it's been all me this whole time, maybe that's what exhausted what love I did have...


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## emily93

Dedicated2Her said:


> Yep. How is his relationship with his father? Most likely, he has lost his identity as a man. He sounds like he really needs some self confidence and self worth. By not valuing himself, he has not valued you. Therefore, it is impossible for you two to "grow" together because all the deep conversation never happens because he is scared to "rock the boat" or dissapoint you. That is why I suggest individual counseling in addition to marriage. He's got to fix his issues. Did he live with family when you guys met or by himself?


He has a good relationship with his Dad. He's very close with both of his parents. He did live with them, but only because he had recently moved back home from college. It didn't bother him living with his parents though in his late 20s. It bothered me significantly more. I completely agree with everything else you say.


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## Dedicated2Her

> Yes. Yes. Yes. He ALWAYS chooses his family over me. I know it's a petty example, but it really gets to me every year. My birthday is right after Christmas, so naturally it always gets overlooked. It also falls on my Grandmother's birthday and my husband's career mentor's birthday. Until we moved, he would always spend the day with his mentor and leave me hanging. Now that we've moved, he'll work so that he can take time off when HIS family comes in January. I almost feel like he takes advantage of the fact that I am strong, and not whiny, but come one! It's my birthday He is very dependant on his parents. He always wants to call them whenever we have money troubles, not that they're rich, but they're 'comfortable'.


I see. It is not petty, Emily. You are supposed to be his "beloved". These are BIG things that hurt attachment. You are not first in his life. It is hard to love someone in which you don't see that your are treasured as highly as others in their life.



> I agree. Although, I don't like ultimatums. I don't think I should have to say counseling or I'm gone, especially when I've tried as much as I have and brought up counseling. I feel like he should want to save us, if there is anything to save. Maybe my standards are just too high... I feel like it's been all me this whole time, maybe that's what exhausted what love I did have...


I know. I hate them. My wife hates them. BUT, sometimes people don't get it until life smack them in the face. If you don't speak your mind to him, you both lose. Tell him about how you have cried over this. Tell him how these things hurt you and you are considering leaving. He needs a wake up call. He needs to be a whole individual so you two can work on this. I'm sure this relationship has had effects on you too that you can't see, but will be visible to a professional.



> He has a good relationship with his Dad. He's very close with both of his parents. He did live with them, but only because he had recently moved back home from college. It didn't bother him living with his parents though in his late 20s. It bothered me significantly more. I completely agree with everything else you say.


Yep. He is not a whole person. He never found or progressed through the stages of masculinity. Good news, is he can. I had the same problem. It has taken time, but I've found myself.


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## brighterlight

If your husband does not know how to be independent or make his own conclusions about things and know how to communicate his needs to you then he can not help you. I agree with Dedicated..., the right counselor could help him. Whether you decide to leave or stay, he needs to do this for himself or he will always be co-dependent. My issue was a bit different - my wife was TOO independant and I was a stubborn hard head set in my ways. I was more of the small group gathering type while she wanted to go be around large groups of people. Two different viewpoints but I was never the type to be fully dependant on her decisions; we worked on those together and it was give and take on both sides. In the end it was our differences in personality that pulled us apart. I want to say that I am learning from this experience - all be it the really hard way!


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## MGirl

Ditto to what the others said. I can completely understand why you feel the way you do. 

A man who is dependent, still strongly tied to his family at your expense, conflict avoidant, and apologizes when you disagree with him are not qualities that create a desirable feeling in a woman. Quite the opposite, really. Been there, done that. 

Having said that, if he does in fact agree to counseling and work on himself and you can find a good marriage counselor together, you may just find yourself in a completely different marriage. A desirable one.


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## emily93

I agree. Maybe there is something there...I don't know. I do know that the times we've talked about counseling he's been completely against it. I really don't like ultimatums, but maybe that's the only thing that will work. Even if we don't succeed, it will help him. It's worth one last shot I suppose...

Thanks so much to all (except the one who said I had 'another man') for all your thoughts and suggestions!


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## bestplayer

emily93 said:


> I agree. Maybe there is something there...I don't know. I do know that the times we've talked about counseling he's been completely against it. I really don't like ultimatums, but maybe that's the only thing that will work. Even if we don't succeed, it will help him. It's worth one last shot I suppose...
> 
> Thanks so much to all (except the one who said I had 'another man') for all your thoughts and suggestions!


ok I am the one who said you had another man . why ? because in 99% of cases like this there's someone else in picture .
Good that you are among the 1 %.

best of luck


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## topbanana

Emily, you say you had your heart broken once and realised after that your parents were right. And they raised you to never 'need' a man. This is a good thing, nobody should 'need' a partner, that's dependence. But I'm wondering if there are some bad habits you've learnt from your parents. Such as strong opposition to accepting partnership within relationship. I'm probably wrong, but it may be worth exploring your own parent's and how they have taught you about relationships, and what of that is unhealthy and you're carrying now.

Could be completely unhelpful though, ignore if irrelevant!!


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