# Seeking advice on "friendship"



## LostAndBreathless (Jul 14, 2014)

If you had asked me a month ago, I would have told you I had a pretty darn good marriage. I was happy and I thought he was happy. After he would go out with his guy friends he would tell me how lucky he was. How his friends had to lie that they were still at work or were somewhere they weren't. I didn't care that he went to the strip club. I knew he loved me.

My husband has always been secretive about his phone. It was always a joke between us. He didn't like anyone touching it, me included. And it bothered me a little but I was so secure in our marriage that it never occurred to me that he would be cheating.

A few weeks ago when I went to get into bed, I found that my husband had fallen asleep with his phone in his hand. It was laying next to him on the bed, not on the charger where I couldn't get to it normally. And I was curious. He's on his phone a lot, playing games and texting friends. And as I was holding it in my hand debating on sneaking a peek or waking him up to put it away, it buzzed in my hand. The text message that rocked my world.

"Good night baby, I love you."

My mistake was not going through the phone then and there. Instead I woke him up and asked what the text was about. He told me that she was a girl in a bar he had met who was going through a rough time. That she didn't really love him but that he was her only friend and that was the only way she knew how to express how grateful she was for his help. He swore it was nothing and that he would end the friendship if it bothered me that much. I begged him to let me see the texts they had been exchanging and he wouldn't. I told him I would leave and he still wouldn't. The first minute my back was turned he erased everything.

A few days later, he was out with his friends and we had a small emergency at home. I tried to call him but I kept going directly to his voicemail. So I went into our phone records and called the last person he texted thinking it would have been his friend that picked him up. It wasn't, I got her voicemail. That was when I got really upset and started snooping.

I went through about our previous phone bills and found that in 2 months time they exchanged 11,500 text messages. That is not a casual friendship. I plugged her number into facebook and found out that she is a stripper at the club he met her at. 

Then she called me back wanting to know who the missed call was. And I told her. She knew all about me. She swore that they were just friends. She told me what had happened to her and how my husband helped. She sounded so sincere that I didn't think she was lying. Honestly, I was proud of my husband for being there to help her do the right thing in a truly terrible situation. That yes she did love my husband but more like a brother. So I told her and him that they could continue the friendship but no more I love yous. They both agreed.

About a week later, I managed to get a hold of his phone. And the first thing I did was pull up their text messages. They were talking about how they couldn't wait for things to get back to normal and how she needed to just be patient. She told him that she missed their facebook conversations. So like a fool I confronted him again. He swore that they were just friends, that there was nothing going on between them. That her cell phone service is spotty at her home so they talk on facebook. I told him I couldn't handle it anymore to please end the friendship. I watched him type up the message and he showed it to me. I thought it was over.

Later that night, I thought about what it said about the facebook messages so I logged into his facebook account. Before he sent her the message I saw, he sent her another message on facebook telling her to just go along wiht what he was about to send. Then I watched as they flirted and ended the conversation with I love you.

I don't know what to do. I feel like every time I learn something I find out the next day that it isn't the whole truth. He won't show me his phone. He's changed all of his passwords. I never thought I would be the type of woman trying to crack his password, but now I am. How do I know if my marriage is worth saving if I don't have all of the facts? Does the paranoia ever truly go away? I've only slept one good night since this started and that's because I finally took a sleeping pill. How in the world do I move forward from this? Please help me.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

A stripper, over 11000 texts, he goes missing. hidden phone, changing passwords, etc.

If he is not having sex with this girl then I am the Wizard of Oz.


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## betrayed2013 (Feb 5, 2013)

ill tell ya right now as a guy i can clearly say he is sleeping with her. thats a guarantee. the nights out u can bet on it. Especially a stripper. Either that or shes leading him on bigtime and is clearin out his bank account. If u dont have children then get the hell out and clean him out. If u do have kids it gets a lot tougher. U will never trust him like u once did.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LostAndBreathless said:


> How do I know if my marriage is worth saving if I don't have all of the facts?


Urgh.... Seriously, you don't?

FACT: He's exchanging "I love you's" with a stripper.

FACT: He's lying to you and hiding his relationship with a stripper.

FACT: She's a stripper and makes a living giving boners to men for money.

FACT: At best, he is having at least an emotional affair with a stripper.

FACT: 99.9% chance it's physical. Either way he's CHEATING on you with a stripper.

FACT: Did I mention she's a STRIPPER? Do you understand how digusting they are? 


Would you like a recorded DVD of their nights out together narrated by James Earl Jones to clarify further? 

You have all the "facts" you need. The question is when are you going to stop being a doormat???


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

kids? if not...run, run now.

let the stripper have him, sounds like two deceitful people that deserve each other.


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## LittleMiss13 (Mar 7, 2012)

I know how much it hurts but you already know the answer. He is lying to you and is most definitely cheating. It's time to put your big girl panties on and put yourself first cause he surely isn't. Pack his bags and tell him to get out. If he truly loves you and you are the one that he wants, he will cut all ties with his stripper friend and chose you. 

The most important thing to remember is that he is the one doing this to your marriage. Please do not take any ownership in this no matter what he says because he will blame you. They always find a way to blame the innocent spouse.

I wish you the best of luck!


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I suspect your husband thinks he loves this woman.

I also suspect this woman loves the thought of your husband's bank account and this isn't the first man she has done this to.

This excuses neither, but might give some context.

It's obvious what is happening and I am guessing your husband is deep in a fog about it all.

You're going to have to be tough. Do a "180". Withdraw all but necessary contact.

Get advice about a divorce and get papers drawn up.

You have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it.

This is not the time to be nice. It NEVER works.

Good luck and keep posting; many of us on here have been through this. It's damned tough, but you'll get through it.


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## LostAndBreathless (Jul 14, 2014)

I want to tell all of you that you are wrong, but even re-reading what I wrote I know its true. Thanks for being honest with me.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

The fact she is a stripper is irrelevant. 

Cheating is happening 100% positive. 

That's all that matters here.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

sorry you are here. 
and even sorrier your H continues to lie and manipulate you. i hope you are packing his bags as i type.


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

If it looks like an affair and smells like an affair then it aint a friendship it is an affair. He destroyed the original evidence and you confirmed their shadiness via Facebook.... Plus he has no problem lying to your face which means he has no respect for you. Cut your losses and run.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

"I don't know what to do"

Throw his @$$ out.

Bad enough he's having an affair, but the disrespect on top of it? 

As said, prepare for divorce. Prepare to live without him. Maybe it snaps him out of it maybe not. I wouldn't want him after all that anyway.

Any kids?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Grown men have enough friends. If they were just friends he would cut it off without a second thought. He's getting tail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostAndBreathless (Jul 14, 2014)

No kids, just two dogs.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Gabriel said:


> The fact she is a stripper is irrelevant.


Not really, as it's more likely that she's harboring one or more STDs because of her profession.

I forgot to mention OP RUN, don't walk, to the doctor's office and get yourself tested.

MANY strippers have side jobs as prostitutes. I'd certainly consider that a factor in deciding R.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

LostAndBreathless said:


> No kids, just two dogs.


Get out fast. Sue for sole custody and Alpo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

- Take half the money, start your own account. 
- See a lawyer. 
- Stop having sex and don't get preg. 
- STD test. 
- Don't tell him your plan until you have it worked out and have him served.

Would reconciliation work? I think no. I don't know him, but he's is a POS


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

what do you want to happen?


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## Riley_Z (Jan 29, 2014)

Get an STD test. I don't think anyone covered that in the checklist.

There really should be a DDay checklist out there : 

a. create own bank account
b. get STD test
c. don't confront until you have the facts you need

etc

I know its hard to have to do all this. As a woman I can sympathize. But how on earth can you allow a grown man to hide his cell phone from you and you don't get a red light?

How secure he makes you feel has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

He's hiding his phone
He goes to strip clubs
He goes out with his pals drinking
He has female friends

How on earth does that kind of behavior leave you feeling secure in a marriage???

What on earth does he have to do in order for you to feel insecure???


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## LostAndBreathless (Jul 14, 2014)

I want to know what is really going on. I hate that he keeps lying to me but I can't sit around waiting for the other shoe to drop every single day. I'm already making myself sick with this. I know I deserve better than that. I'm starting to realize that leaving may be the best option for me, but....I still love him.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

of course you still love him but unfortunately, the man you love isn't the man he really is. 

there are programs you can install on the computer and ways to spy on his phone. if you decide to do that, you need to pretend like you believe him and give him time to contact her again thinking he has you fooled. he's such an incredible liar it's probably the only way you'll ever learn the truth. 


can you do that?


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## Riley_Z (Jan 29, 2014)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I want to know what is really going on. I hate that he keeps lying to me but I can't sit around waiting for the other shoe to drop every single day. I'm already making myself sick with this. I know I deserve better than that. I'm starting to realize that leaving may be the best option for me, but....I still love him.


Been there, done that.

Gonna save you a LOT of pain here :

a. he's never going to tell you the whole truth, so stop looking for it
b. how much you love him does not matter one iota. How much he's willing to demonstrate his love for you is the issue - which currently he's showing zero

Spare yourself a lot of grief and stop looking for the truth, and stop using your love for him as a constraint to you getting some self respect

That's your choices, keep loving a liar and a cheat, or recover your self respect.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I want to know what is really going on. I hate that he keeps lying to me but I can't sit around waiting for the other shoe to drop every single day. I'm already making myself sick with this. I know I deserve better than that. I'm starting to realize that leaving may be the best option for me, but....I still love him.


Have you tried checking to see if the strip joint has a webpage? You may be able to see a photo of her there. Have you googled her name/stage name?

Have you checked bank accts to see how much he is spending there? It won't likely show up under the name of a strip joint.

If you can afford it, hire a PI. If not do you have a friend that can tail him? This sounds so hot and heavy, I doubt he is actually going out with his friends that much if at all now.


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## johnsonb (Jun 30, 2014)

My heart breaks for you because I can relate to what you are going through. All of their convincing you that it's platonic, then the facts say something else. Leave him, because if you forgive him he will do this again. Right now they are making a fool out of you. I don't mean to hurt you in anyway. But you have to find the strength ! It took me 17 years, and when I had reach my bottom and thought I would die, my anger took over and I was ten feet tall! For the first time in my life I stood up for myself. Look upon them as pathetic Bullies. He's making a mockery out of your marriage! You need to show him what happens to lames that break their vows. She has probably done this before. There are some women out there that breaking up marriages is their "ego boost"! She'll get bored with him and move on down her path of destruction. But you have to find that spark inside of you that tells you you are worth so much more than being treated like a fool. You are beautiful and sorry to say, he is a loser.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Not really, as it's more likely that she's harboring one or more STDs because of her profession.


LOL. Yes, really irrelevant. The same type of messages to a Librarian with the flirting, guarding of the phone, late night talks, "I love you" and denials would mean the same thing. I'd be saying STD check with her as well because you never know who has screwed whom or what.

The only difference would be some posters would say "it might still be an EA, but there was sex." A "Stripper" has everyone doubling down on sex.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Get out fast. Sue for sole custody and Alpo.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Agree 100% with this.

Get tested for STDs and take care of yourself.

He doesn't deserve you and you don't need his sh!t.


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## NoRush (Jul 14, 2014)

NEEDS to be pointed out:

Just because you file for divorce doesn't mean you are divorced. When you have proof positive you have been cheated on, the first reaction NEEDS to be to consult a lawyer. The lawyer can give you advice on how to protect yourself if you marriage comes crashing down. That's what you're paying him for.

You need to find out if your husband is spending money on this girl (almost certainly) and how much. If he's spending a lot, she may be stringing him along. Why else is she so willing to play along with what he says? He can tell her he loves her until he's blue in the face; his behavior is setting her up to be a fling.

On the other hand, if he's spending virtually no money on her then she might honestly believe he's in love with her. In this case HE is the one stringing HER along. For you this is worse. In the former case there is hope that he will wake up and realize that he gave in to an illusion; in the latter case he is either: a) a serial cheater or b) looking to replace you.

I don't think anyone has suggested this, but you could always arrange to meet her. If you're bold you can even ask your husband to take you to the strip club with him. Watch how she interacts with him... and with you.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

NoRush said:


> I don't think anyone has suggested this, but you could always arrange to meet her. If you're bold you can even ask your husband to take you to the strip club with him. Watch how she interacts with him... and with you.


Sure and get his and her lap dances from her. Make a night of it! I'm surprised no one has suggested this. Smh

If she was bold, she would cut out the bull, see a lawyer tomorrow and begin the next chapter of her life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jambri (Mar 19, 2013)

He is most definitely having an affair. Sorry to tell you that but I believe deep down you know it's true anyway. He has lied to you countless times and has totally destroyed the trust you both shared. If there is no trust there can be no love. If there is no love, then your marriage is a sham.

Sorry, you do not deserve what he has done to you. You need to file for divorce and move on without him. There is someone out there that will treat you with the respect and love that you are entitled to. Cheaters never change.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

LostAndBreathless, in today's society, people think it's cool and hip to be so, so ok with their significant having a weekly guys/gals night out, going to strip joints, viewing porno, having opposite sex friends...oh so, so cool.

So cool because we are so, so secure. We are so into trusting the other. Oh yes trusting. Trust. TRUST. He loves me. She loves me.

Right.

Delusion to be sure. 

In a healthy marriage having TRUE love, weekly nights out with the guys/gals is never to be tolerated, as are strip joints, opposite sex friends (in most cases), and porno is never to be integrated into one's marriage. Porno is bringing other "people
between you and your spouse.

I plead guilty, I'm not cool.

I'd rather be dedicated, loyal and enjoy the fruits of having a good solid marriage.


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## Leafwhisper (Jul 11, 2014)

I'm going through a very similar thing, albeit the OW is just a trailer ho and not a stripper (too flat chested and in-bred looking for that), so I can totally relate. I'm also in that same foggy stage as you, but one thing that is really helping has been reading through all the posts on this board. I've found tons of coping help as well as incredible techniques for information gathering. Be very thankful that you don't have kids, read up here to get your courage up and then toss him out.


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## Riley_Z (Jan 29, 2014)

Why waste money on a PI? What's with all the expensive detective work? Just hire a lawyer and peel yourself off this guy... like a band-aid from a rotten wound.


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## NoRush (Jul 14, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Sure and get his and her lap dances from her. Make a night of it! I'm surprised no one has suggested this. Smh
> 
> If she was bold, she would cut out the bull, see a lawyer tomorrow and begin the next chapter of her life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) In case anyone quotes me and takes my thoughts out of context, I already suggested she talk to a lawyer.

2) Why do you assume I'm suggesting she join her hubby in sexing up the stripper?

Merely bringing up the possibility of going to the club with him will be very telling. Is he thinking "oh yeah -- threesome!" as you seem to be or is he thinking "oh ****, this is a really bad idea!"

But you may be right. It may be too bold. Even if she's comfortable executing the kind of strategy I have in mind, she almost certainly won't like what she finds.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LostAndBreathless said:


> , but....I still love him.


Well then its time for some tough love....time to show him that this crap won't cut it and its time to get the phuckout.

Once this chick see your old man is now her problem she will bail.

Hell once your old man goes broke she will bail.

BTW protect your money....your old man will drop all of it for this trick so what ever you do....now is the time to protect your self....you can figure out your heart after your old man see what a wasted mistake he has mad.

At the end of the day this trick will leave both you, your dogs and your old man... broke and hungry!

Ya your hearts getting ripped out, but at least you will have some dough if you act now.

Get to the bank ASAP! Protect your assets!

After that get tested for STD's...what really would suck if your old man phucked up your chances of having a kid cuz of some sh1t he got from some trick!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hmm... husband getting ILY's from a stripper... 

Well, you should probably start going through your checking and savings accounts, credit card statements, etc in order to find out exactly _how much_ (cha-ching!) she _*"loves"*_ him.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

When you get an opportunity to snoop just do it, don't hesitate. You would not believe the time this can save you before you actually find out he is cheating, which it seems extremely likely. 

I made the same mistake you made one night not grabbing the phone and walking off with it to look. The only thing that did was tip her off that I was on to her, then proceeded to take it further underground by getting a burner phone. It took me six more months to nail her. 

Not that you need more proof, the "I love you" text proves it beyond doubt. But don't waste opportunities to gather info. 

I'll say it also like some others have, I'm a guy, I know what the nights out and hanging with strippers does, and it isn't innocent friendship.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

He's cheating and they are both lying to deceive you. Trust us, we all know. 

Stop confronting and snooping, you already know enough. The rest is just self torture. 

Don't beg, cry, "try to be better", it's weak and your husband will take advantage of it. 

Expose the affair to all friends and family while filing for divorce. 

It's going to take a while for all this to sink in but you'll get there. Look into some individual counseling for yourself. 

Can you support yourself?

My husband lied to me for 10 years while pretending everything was great. Yes, it was great.....FOR HIM! 

No kids, ....run Forest, run.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LostAndBreathless,

When people have affairs they use their vehicles as private phone booths. They think that no one will ever find out what they are talking about.

If you want to know a lot of what's going on, get a VAR (voice activated recorder). Secure it under the diver's seat (or other hidden surface) of his vehicle with adhesive backed Velcro. Leave it in there a few days. 

Some people get two of them. One to have in the vehicle and one to swap out. this way there is still one in the vehicle while you down load and listen to the other one.

These recordings are for you. Do not ever let him or anyone else know that you have them. It's illegal in all states to record a conversation you are not a party to. In some states only one person needs to consent to a recording (and that can be the person making the recording) . IN other states all people have to consent.

There is an evidence gathering thread around here.


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

LostAndBreathless said:


> If you had asked me a month ago, I would have told you I had a pretty darn good marriage. I was happy and I thought he was happy. After he would go out with his guy friends he would tell me how lucky he was. How his friends had to lie that they were still at work or were somewhere they weren't. I didn't care that he went to the strip club. I knew he loved me.
> 
> My husband has always been secretive about his phone. It was always a joke between us. He didn't like anyone touching it, me included. And it bothered me a little but I was so secure in our marriage that it never occurred to me that he would be cheating.
> 
> ...


Unless you have young children with said husband, this is a very very easy case to resolve. Peace out marriage.


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## NoRush (Jul 14, 2014)

The more I think about it, the more I agree. Just divorce this loser. Don't even try for reconciliation. He's acting too sneaky and the question of how he met this stripper in the first place is one you probably don't want to hear the truth about. He thinks he has you by the horns and he probably takes some sort of sick satisfaction in it.

At first the knowledge that she's a sex worker had me thinking "he's in lust, not love" and reconciliation might be possible if she's the one leading him on. But the more I think about it, the more I come back to "how did he meet a sex worker?" This makes any above arguments for reconciliation null and void because there's only one answer: he went looking for one for sex. And now he's being sneaky about it.

You can stop this affair, but there will be another one. If this one doesn't have an STD, how about the next? Willing to gamble?

You want kids? Women have a limited time window before the factory shuts down. Would you really want to have kids with a guy who's cheating on you with a sex worker?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Look at it this way...

Knowing what you know now would you let a daughter even date such a person? 

...well, you're married to one now.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

This isn't a friendship, it's cheating.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

LostAndBreathless said:


> After he would go out with his guy friends *he would tell me how lucky he was.* How his friends had to lie that they were still at work or were somewhere they weren't. I didn't care that he went to the strip club. I knew he loved me.


Well of course he felt "lucky." While all of his friends were getting an a$$-whipping by their wives for lying and going to strip clubs, you were essentially giving him license to play and condoning behavior that is not appropriate for a married man.

Ok, we all know the instance where the sales rep is on a business trip and gets dragged out to a strip bar by the local management for entertainment, but that's NOT what we're talking about here. You regularly allowed him to go out and place himself in these situations.

Trust? Forget trust. It's about respect. Men who respect their wives don't gallivant around town at strip clubs with their buddies, salivating over half-naked women who provide lap dances.

When you play with fire, you get burned. You not only gave him the matches, but you gave him the lighter fluid as well.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. He doesn't have any respect for you to treat you this way. Do you really want to be with someone like this?


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## Cicero (Jul 15, 2014)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I want to know what is really going on.


I think you know what's going on. To me, you have hard evidence of his betrayal in the facebook message telling her to ignore the text you (very justifiably) asked him to send to end the friendship.

What I think you mean is you want the details. Let me validate that desire for you -- we betrayed spouses all want the details. But you shouldn't wait for them to come in before you act. You have proof of guilt, and that's enough. Odds are you have a better chance of getting the details by acting rather than waiting.

I know it's hard to suppress that desire to wait for the details to unfold. There's a lot of talk on this site about the affair fog, but the truth is betrayed spouses can be in a fog of their own. It's hard to adjust your belief system overnight -- to go from thinking on Monday that you're with the love of your life to knowing that you're with a cheater Tuesday morning. Details offer the false hope of making sense of the whole thing.

But you're lucky in a way. Not to diminish the pain of your situation -- but you have concrete proof that he has betrayed you. Let that serve as your guiding light and the fog will fade quickly enough for both of you.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

LostAndBreathless said:


> . . . I don't know what to do. I feel like every time I learn something I find out the next day that it isn't the whole truth. He won't show me his phone. He's changed all of his passwords. I never thought I would be the type of woman trying to crack his password, but now I am. *How do I know if my marriage is worth saving if I don't have all of the facts?* Does the paranoia ever truly go away? I've only slept one good night since this started and that's because I finally took a sleeping pill. How in the world do I move forward from this? Please help me.


Dear LostAndBreathless,

Here are _"all of the facts"_ as far as you know them:

- Your H is texting a stripper an average of 200 times a day and exchanging I-love-yous with her.

- He wouldn't let you see their messages and then he erased the messages.

- After you caught him the first time, he continued to communicate with her, telling her to be patient until things _"get back to normal."_

- He not only told her not to take seriously the "end the friendship" message he agreed to send her, he continues to trade I-love-yous with her.

Based on the above you also know the following:

a) Your H is a cheater and a liar;

b) You cannot trust anything he says or does;

c) He is not the man you thought you married, in fact, he is not a good man.

What more do you need to know in order to decide what to do?

The wisdom of CWI/TAM, based on the experience of thousands of betrayed spouses, is that the best way to deal with infidelity -- whether one hopes to save one's marriage or wishes to end it -- is to come down on cheaters like a load of bricks. This means:

1) Kicking them out of the house, if legally permissible;

2) Exposing them to family and close friends;

3) Securing financial assets against dissipation;

4) Withdrawing affection (the so-called "180"); and

5) Filing for divorce.

Taking these steps accomplishes two things. First, it gives you the greatest chance of snapping your cheating H out of the mental fantasy of his affair and back to the reality of the wrongs he has done to you and harm he is doing to his own future. Second, it puts you in the best possible position to rebuild your life without him, if that is ultimately what you decide to do.

Waiting until you have more information about the degree of his betrayal will only give him new opportunities to gas light you, delay the resolution of this drama and make your eventual healing that much harder.

Your H is a cheater and a liar and not the man you thought he was. You deserve better. Let him know this by taking the actions described above. Then, based on how he reacts (comes clean, breaks it off with her and begs for a second chance or continues to stonewall and lie to you), decide whether you want to go through with the divorce or if your marriage is worth saving.

Wishing you the best.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry you are here.

Many of us have been in your shoes and are trying to get you to move beyond the shock you are experiencing.

Denial - is not a river in Egypt. It is what prevents us from taking action.

You love your husband - no you don't. You love the person you thought he was. That person is dead.

Your husband will lie and will continue to lie. It is what cheaters do. It is part of what we call the "Cheater's Script".

Lawyer up and don't tell him about it.

This is not your fault.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

get the **** out of there... this is way beyond infidelity. he sounds like a psycho narcissist and you come off as extremely naive...

do you have friends or family that can help you?


get tested


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

"I still love him"

That's sadly the problem. 

You really need to start to ask what is it that you love about him because I think you are about to find out he's nothing like you person you ever thought he was is and will be 

You don't need to find out any more - you know more than enough in terms of the ongoing infidelity 

You may not see it yet but you are very very fortunate - no kids 

You just won the lottery with that fact - time to move on


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## LostAndBreathless (Jul 14, 2014)

Thank you everyone for responding. Hopefully I can answer a coupe of questions. I came here because I knew what it sounded like but I was afraid of being wrong. I didn't want to talk to my friends or family because if it wasn't true they would never forgive him.

I never had a problem with the strip club because he always went with 5+ people on the cheap drink night once in a while. He swore he wasn't getting lap dances or anything like that and I never had a reason to not believe him. Do men really get crazy in front of their friends/coworkers like that?

I don't think a VAR would help in this situation, unless he has a burner phone. Which wouldn't make any sense. Why would he use a different phone for phone calls and the one I can see for texts?

I'm not trying to be naive, I just don't really understand. We were talking about starting a family. We're buying a house. Why would he throw all of this away for a stripper with 4 kids?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

LostAndBreathless said:


> Why would he throw all of this away for a stripper with 4 kids?


Because he's a narcissist-cheater who wants *S-E-X* with other women.

Sorry to be blunt...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I never had a problem with the strip club because he always went with 5+ people on the cheap drink night once in a while. He swore he wasn't getting lap dances or anything like that and I never had a reason to not believe him. *Do men really get crazy in front of their friends/coworkers like that?*


No, they generally don't. So my guess is he was lying to you all along about how many people were going with him. Unless you've talked to all these other men about their "regular" strip-club escapades, you have no reason to believe he is telling you the truth about this.

He has already proven that he is a liar. This is probably one more thing he lies about.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Going to a strip club now and again. Shouldn't do it. Fine but OK he's not the only married guy who has ever gone.

Texting I love you's, 11K text per month, wiping out his phone history, sending her secret messages to disregard his messages that they can't be in contact any more. Right here this is enough for you to leave and never look back. Basically he treated you like the enemy to her. Ultimate disrespect. He has lied to you over and over and over about her. She also lied to your face.

What's this about a house? DO NOT BUY A HOUSE WITH HIM. STOP THE PROCESS NOW. One more complication.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Going to a strip club now and again. Shouldn't do it. Fine but OK he's not the only married guy who has ever gone.
> 
> Texting I love you's, 11K text per month, wiping out his phone history, sending her secret messages to disregard his messages that they can't be in contact any more. Right here this is enough for you to leave and never look back. Basically he treated you like the enemy to her. Ultimate disrespect. He has lied to you over and over and over about her. She also lied to your face.
> 
> ...


This. Exactly. 

You need to get your head out of your behind and see what is going on. It is so obvious I'm beginning to doubt your sanity or validity. 

He is so clearly hiding things from you. Bad things. You should be thanking God this all happened before you had kids or a house with this man. Count your blessings and detach. Now.


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## Foghorn (Sep 10, 2012)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I didn't want to talk to my friends or family because if it wasn't true they would never forgive him.
> 
> .....
> 
> We were talking about starting a family. We're buying a house. Why would he throw all of this away for a stripper with 4 kids?


What does that say about the character of a man? That you have to hide the reality of his behaviors, or your family would hate him? 

Think about that.

Do you want to buy a house and invest in the raising of a child or children with someone of that character?

Think about that too.

It doesn't matter that you love him. You only love who you thought he was. Who he really is, is a cheating, lying narcissist who would put his loyal, loving wife in danger of contracting STDs just to gratify his ego and spend time with a secret eff-buddy?

Incredibly selfish of him. What a horrible person. Divorce ASAP.

I'm sorry.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Lost,

I understand the urge to want to find the "smoking gun". But as Carmen Ohio told you; that's not a good strategy. Trust us when we tell you that he's having a sexual affair with her and disrespecting you in the worst way. Now is the time to act.

Follow the advice you've been given; and you may very well find out the details. If he is remorseful he may tell you the full truth and allow you access to confirm it. If he's not remorseful, then there is no chance for R anyway.

Your mindset should be that you're heading straight to D and only a monumental display of remorse on his part will allow you to reconsider. But start the process immediately.

Keep posting.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Your husband can resist everything - except temptation. 

Perhaps it's Time to plan your exit. Quietly. Have him served. Only you determine if you R or D. You can always cancel the D process at anytime. You need to be willing to end the marriage to save it. And if serving him and D or if R does not work, you still have your answer. 

I don't see Rs being all that successful. I see it as changing the spots on a dangerous animal so it won't bite anymore.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

LostAndBreathless said:


> Thank you everyone for responding. Hopefully I can answer a coupe of questions. I came here because I knew what it sounded like but I was afraid of being wrong. I didn't want to talk to my friends or family because if it wasn't true they would never forgive him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought a second home while my wife was banging the XOM. Cheaters want the best of both worlds. Don't try and figure it out. Why would he throw it away, because cheaters do what they want due to selfishness.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> I bought a second home while my wife was banging the XOM. Cheaters want the best of both worlds. Don't try and figure it out. Why would he throw it away, because cheaters do what they want due to selfishness.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

what are you going to do?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> On the other hand, if he's spending virtually no money on her then she might honestly believe he's in love with her. In this case HE is the one stringing HER along. For you this is worse. In the former case there is hope that he will wake up and realize that he gave in to an illusion; in the latter case he is either: a) a serial cheater or b) looking to replace you.


Or, if he is happy to keep the both of you in a holding pattern, the stripper may assume that YOU are the roadblock to her happiness and come after you......

Ever seen "Fatal Attraction" or "Play Misty for ME?"


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

LostAndBreathless said:


> Thank you everyone for responding. Hopefully I can answer a coupe of questions. I came here because I knew what it sounded like but I was afraid of being wrong. I didn't want to talk to my friends or family because if it wasn't true they would never forgive him.
> 
> I never had a problem with the strip club because he always went with 5+ people on the cheap drink night once in a while. He swore he wasn't getting lap dances or anything like that and I never had a reason to not believe him. Do men really get crazy in front of their friends/coworkers like that?
> 
> ...


Sadly it's about eating cake

When they can they never stop until you stop them


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LostAndBreathless said:


> Why would he throw all of this away for a stripper with 4 kids?


It isn't always the catch it is the chase..


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

One thing - I don't get strip joints ! I really don't 

Never have 

Maybe somewhere within I'm deficient as a man! but seems like a very undignified cattle market to me


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

LostAndBreathless said:


> . . . I'm not trying to be naive, I just don't really understand. We were talking about starting a family. We're buying a house. Why would he throw all of this away for a stripper with 4 kids?


LAB,

Forgive me for being blunt but, while you may not be _trying_ to be naive, you're coming across that way. Do you really think that because a man has expressed a desire to start a family or agreed to buy a house, he can't be a cheater?

Based on the degree of chutzpah your H has demonstrated -- continuing to carry on with the OW after getting caught TWICE -- either this isn't his first escapade or else he believes _you_ will believe anything he tells you.

You have more than enough evidence of infidelity to act and you've been given good advice on how to deal with this. I'm not sure that there is anything more the good people on TAM can do to help you if you won't help yourself.

Nevertheless, still wishing you the best.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Headspin said:


> One thing - I don't get strip joints ! I really don't
> 
> Never have
> 
> Maybe somewhere within I'm deficient as a man! but seems like a very undignified cattle market to me


Most say strip clubs exploit women. It just might be women exploiting men...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

OP... are you still here? Or have you left the building?!

You are getting GREAT advice... I hope you are checking in to read it.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

LostAndBreathless said:


> Thank you everyone for responding. Hopefully I can answer a coupe of questions. I came here because I knew what it sounded like but I was afraid of being wrong. I didn't want to talk to my friends or family because if it wasn't true they would never forgive him.
> 
> I never had a problem with the strip club because he always went with 5+ people on the cheap drink night once in a while. He swore he wasn't getting lap dances or anything like that and I never had a reason to not believe him. Do men really get crazy in front of their friends/coworkers like that?
> 
> ...


I'd say you are still in the shocked stage. My WS had an affair with a younger, married woman who had not had any kids and wanted them. WS and I have three adult children and he was and is fine with our home being an empty nest. He told the xOW how much he'd love to have another child, which he has since admitted was a lie to make him seem even more appealing to her, reel her in a bit more. He was/is not interested in having more kids at all. 

Point is, people involved in affairs do and say some pretty wack things, up to and including lying to their BS, their AP, and anyone else around. They will lie to get what they want. They also make choices which can seem totally out of character, bizarre, nonsensical, the whole gamut. Like an AP who is a stripper with 4 kids.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

LostAndBreathless said:


> We were talking about starting a family. We're buying a house.


 DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS MAN. DO NOT BUY A HOUSE WITH THIS MAN. Tell him that you are doing this because you know that he is cheating. You know the truth that he is cheating, and he knows the truth that he is cheating. Tell him that you do not have to convince him to admit it for you to know and respond accordingly. 

With over 11,000 text messages, "I love you" being exchanged, some of the messages that you have read, with her being a stripper that he has for sure seen naked at least on stage, and with him lying to you about ending the relationship with her, it is 100% positive that they are having an emotional affair (EA), and 99% that they are having a physical affair (PA). Sorry to say but that is the most that you will probably every have. Studies show that even when confronted with evidence, most cheaters will continue to lie about their affair. One major university study showed that only 3% of cheaters ever admitted to cheating. Again, what you know is enough to act now and is probably the most that you are going to get. If these facts were in front of a jury, there would be no doubt that they would make their ruling assuming beyond a reasonable doubt that they were having an affair.

Accept the reality that he is cheating and stop second guessing this when you talk to your husband. Tell your husband that you are seeing an attorney and filing for divorce, and that you will not even consider thinking about not divorcing him unless he does the following:

1) Stops lying, admits to cheating, and asks for your forgiveness. If he is not even asking to be forgiven, you cannot forgive him for it.
2) He must agree to full no contact (NC) with his affair partner. This means total and complete NC, with no final goodbyes. This includes him drafting a NC letter to the other women that you must read and approve before sending.
3) He must agree to full transpancy without complaint, which includes all passwords and an agreement not to delete any emails, texts, or voice mail without you reviewing them first, Anything deleted without your review will be assumed to be cheating.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

The whole "ignore my good-bye text, lover. My dumb wife made me send it." IM should be enough to throw his Sh!t onto the front lawn and never share the same oxygen with him ever again.

But maybe more proof is warranted. SMH.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostAndBreathless (Jul 14, 2014)

I should have listened when every one of you said that I didn't need any more proof than what I already had. I snooped for days and I found 7 different emotional affairs and 2 sexual affairs in the last 3 years. There are probably more but I don't want to know anymore at this point.

I feel like someone has punched me in the gut multiple times. Does this feeling ever go away?

He doesn't know that I know. I've smiled and continued to play the doting wife. I have a doctor's appointment next week to get tested. All I can do now is thank God that He didn't answer my prayers for a child. For now I am just hiding money and my valuables until I have a concrete plan in place.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Yes, I am sorry but so many of us are all too familiar with the script. 

My sadness was mostly for my children and that sadness will always be somewhat there but my children seem to be doing very well so it has lessened tremendously. 

For me, the respect for my husband left immediately. I knew I could never forgive him and I did not want to reconcile. 

My husband was a serial cheater too. 

I also never placed any blame on myself and that I know makes a big difference in recovery. 

I am single and do get lonely but not for my husband, just someone I can trust and care for. 

You have a ways to go but not having children and having a plan should make it much easier to move on. 

If you are young, you should recover in great fashion but never I would think completely. 

It's a loss and a part of you and who you are. It's one of those life events that will change you forever. In time, I think you will be proud of how far you've come.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I should have listened when every one of you said that I didn't need any more proof than what I already had. I snooped for days and I found 7 different emotional affairs and 2 sexual affairs in the last 3 years. There are probably more but I don't want to know anymore at this point.
> 
> I feel like someone has punched me in the gut multiple times. Does this feeling ever go away?
> 
> He doesn't know that I know. I've smiled and continued to play the doting wife. I have a doctor's appointment next week to get tested. All I can do now is thank God that He didn't answer my prayers for a child. For now I am just hiding money and my valuables until I have a concrete plan in place.


I hate this - being right about this. It's terrible 

We all hate this too 

As people we all like to be proved correct to be right but the nature of being right in these matters means someone - you - will now, has already been, but will now even more be going through the turmoil of a massive trauma in their lives.

It really sucks but at least now you know and deal with reality and not possibilities . From here on out there is no more fear - just things that need to be done.

It is traumatic but please think on this - had you had kids like most of us have had just imagine where you'd be with it - you can get out and be gone 

Good luck :smthumbup:


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I should have listened when every one of you said that I didn't need any more proof than what I already had. I snooped for days and I found 7 different emotional affairs and 2 sexual affairs in the last 3 years. There are probably more but I don't want to know anymore at this point.
> 
> I feel like someone has punched me in the gut multiple times. Does this feeling ever go away?
> 
> He doesn't know that I know. I've smiled and continued to play the doting wife. I have a doctor's appointment next week to get tested. All I can do now is thank God that He didn't answer my prayers for a child. For now I am just hiding money and my valuables until I have a concrete plan in place.


Hi, I'm sorry you found this.

The feeling does go away but it does take time. You need to give yourself as much time as you need to get over this. It takes a long time to even begin to recover from the shock.

You will not be thinking straight for the moment and it could take months until you can.

Take things one step at a time. You seem to be doing the right things for now.

It is an idea to post here before you make any big steps - you will receive conflicting advice sometimes, but it can help just sharing your thoughts.

Take care and remember to look after yourself. Confide in close blood family or a friend if you can.


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I should have listened when every one of you said that I didn't need any more proof than what I already had. I snooped for days and I found 7 different emotional affairs and 2 sexual affairs in the last 3 years. There are probably more but I don't want to know anymore at this point.
> 
> I feel like someone has punched me in the gut multiple times. Does this feeling ever go away?
> 
> He doesn't know that I know. I've smiled and continued to play the doting wife. I have a doctor's appointment next week to get tested. All I can do now is thank God that He didn't answer my prayers for a child. For now I am just hiding money and my valuables until I have a concrete plan in place.


Keep strong and ask for help, here or from family, friends, etc.

Keep cool minded and, if haven't yet, talk to a lawyer.

good luck


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Sorry to hear this LAB. Make sure you have secured at least 50% of the money, see a divorce attorney.

You mentioned earlier you were looking to get a house? Are you just renting now. Both of you on the lease? If not ask him to leave. 

Silver lining- if there is one - with no kids or house divorce should be quick. You are still young and can find a great man to build a home and family with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

A man who claims to be ready for a future and raising a family with you would not be risking your health. He's not ready at all. What kind of example does he set as a man and potential father? He is incapable of caring for you, in fact, he is willingly causing you all kinds of injury while wearing a mask. 

Take care of yourself, get your priorities sorted, and leave him in the dust. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I snooped for days and I found 7 different emotional affairs and 2 sexual affairs in the last 3 years. There are probably more but I don't want to know anymore at this point.


LAB,

Very sorry to hear this  But good that you are waking up to who he really is.

*I hope you are keeping copies of EVERYTHING incriminating you found while snooping.* This will become invaluable later when he starts denying everything and trying to twist it around. It could also give you some leverage if/when you start talking divorce settlement. Print out hard copies, make backups to a thumb drive, and store them safely somewhere OFF-SITE. Do you have a safe deposit box? If not, I highly recommend getting one.

Even if you live in a no-fault state, this documentation will go a long way towards negotiating what you want out of this. Cheaters HATE to be exposed. The threat of exposure of all of his escapades may persuade him to give you everything you want in a settlement.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

LostAndBreathless said:


> I should have listened when every one of you said that I didn't need any more proof than what I already had. I snooped for days and I found 7 different emotional affairs and 2 sexual affairs in the last 3 years. There are probably more but I don't want to know anymore at this point.
> 
> I feel like someone has punched me in the gut multiple times. Does this feeling ever go away?
> 
> He doesn't know that I know. [B]I've smiled and continued to play the doting wife. I have a doctor's appointment next week to get tested. All I can do now is thank God that He didn't answer my prayers for a child. For now I am just hiding money and my valuables until I have a concrete plan in place.


[/B]

Good plan. Let him think you're clueless, and then drop the bomb. He's lost in some kind of fantasy world, but that'll end pretty quickly when he realizes that he's going to lose a wonderful wife and partner. Let him stew about it! You deserve a MAN who will love and cherish you. This one's a total dud! Move on and never look back. Good luck in your future.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

The period between discovery and confrontation is a huge advantage that many BS's lose because they can't wait to confront. That's understandable of course, but it's good to see that you've kept that advantage. 

Use it wisely. Lawyer up, secure finances, and work out your exit strategy.

I wish you the best. Keep posting for support.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

LostAndBreathless said:


> If you had asked me a month ago, I would have told you I had a pretty darn good marriage. I was happy and I thought he was happy. After he would go out with his guy friends he would tell me how lucky he was. How his friends had to lie that they were still at work or were somewhere they weren't. I didn't care that he went to the strip club. I knew he loved me.
> 
> My husband has always been secretive about his phone. It was always a joke between us. He didn't like anyone touching it, me included. And it bothered me a little but I was so secure in our marriage that it never occurred to me that he would be cheating.
> 
> ...



Oh my, when I read your story, I thought I wrote it. The only difference, my stripper was a flight attendant. 

Details almost the same, I am sooooo sorry you have join our ranks ... 

~sammy


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