# Between a Rock and a Hard Place...



## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

I'm not really sure where to begin. I've posted on TAM before about my situation a few months ago, but have been doing a lot of thinking about my situation since that time. I know I've made mistakes along the way in dealing with this, but my marriage and my kids are very important to me. I am also Mormon, so that puts some perspective into why I'm being so stubborn about this.

Short version of the story is, married 11 years, 4 kids (all boys), wife is a stay at home mom. Affairs started 6 years ago. She admitted that she had problems, but not the extent of the problems. I found out the extent of some of them this year and confronted her. She then asked for a separation and divorce. I've been delaying ever since and trying to work on myself while we both figure out how to move forward without being financially destroyed.

Long version is, if you're okay with spending 10 minutes of your life... Affairs started 6 years ago, and she felt guilty and confessed them. First she said she had feelings for and kissed another guy from the local gym. I did the stupid thing and swept it under the rug, listening to what she claimed were the problems, but, looking back, not addressing them very well. Months later she had another relationship that was said to be at the time just making out. After that, we had a rough relationship emotionally speaking, but she seemed to be engaged on working on things, but neither of us understood how to make any real progress. Over the next couple of years I found out about at least 2 other relationships she was having, but as far as I had proof or guessed they were only emotional affairs, some Internet-based and some local.

Fast forward to the beginning of this year. I still sensed something was wrong, and that I wasn't going to get anywhere if I didn't figure out exactly what. I hacked into her email and FB accounts and found conversations part of a current EA, and admissions of previous relationships that had been more than what she had admitted to ("trickle truth" I believe is the term). I confronted her on the issue, at first not telling her how I knew. She resisted, but eventually came clean a few days later about what I had confronted her on. Her first two had been sexual in nature and that she had done other things as well. However, the way she confirmed the first two was to say "I thought you knew about those." So there was some trickle truthing with some gaslighting thrown in.

After that incident, however, she came back to me and said she wanted a separation. I of course begged and pleaded for her to change her mind, throwing judgements and anger at her causing her to stiffen up and request the divorce. We talked to our ecclesiatical leader about what was going on and he recommended a good MC. I have been seeing that MC ever since, although WS has only gone twice, and those were only to "help me" to work through my issues. She has continued to blame me for her situation, and for the "mark" that she wears now in going to church but not being able to participate now. I don't buy the blame thing, but I do admit that, by my actions and inactions, I helped create a scenario where she was more exposed to her poor decisions.

I know my wife is a serial cheater. I know that she is currently continuing at least 2 relationships that are inappropriate, 1 local and probably physical, and another online that was the one that encouraged her to "stand up for herself", which I'm not sure was the exact phrasing of what he said or the general gist. At one point she told me "you should be grateful for him" because he's triggered all of these positive changes in my life.

So here's the thing. During that initial phase, I said I would never break into her accounts again. However, I find myself in the annoying situation of needing more information to confront the 2 people that I know about now. I've seen them send FB messages and text messages to her phone. I'm now caught between wanting to keep my promise, but also wanting to confront the current problem relationships.

I'm still interested in R. She's been consistently cold and detached regarding future plans, insisting on D ever since she first declared it earlier this year. However, she's been in the relationships since then, and has moved to extend the relationship so that I will help with the kids while we put her through trade school. I've been amenable to that as the finances of separation or divorce look bleak unless she gets a job. I've figured out since then that I should not be pushing the future plans discussions.

So I'm struggling with what to do. I could either break in, expose the other relationships and hope for the best knowing that I've broken my word. Or I could try to put conditions on my letting her stay and me helping with the kids on more than a simple custodial schedule with the conditions being that she stop all other relationships and open up her accounts.

I've tried 180 but implemented it wrong, for two weeks, which pissed her off. I've altered my strategy and am focusing on listening to her and doing the things she tells me about that I agree with.

What to do next?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

"Dear Penthouse"


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

Thanks for the chuckle... Well timed, and I needed that!

Seriously though, I know I'm basically screwed here either way. I guess that's the point, though. At this point I don't feel like there's anything to lose...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I would say expose and divorce. The other betrayed spouces have to know. Are you going to DNA test your kids? I would.


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## tribesman (Aug 17, 2013)

Grow a pair and divorce her, she is worthless. Find someone who treats you right.

Also stop being a Mormon, it is a silly waste of time.


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

I thought about DNA testing, but all 4 of them look like spitting images of me. I also have good enough relationships with them that I don't think I could let her have full custody of any of them, even if it meant an additional financial burden for the next 18 or so years. That and the 4 of them get along so well that I think splitting them up would cause many more problems than it might solve for me.

Regarding the "grow a pair", comment... I'm quickly working on it. Only reason I've stuck around this long is I want custody, and my friends that have been through this recently around where I live report that the leaving spouse generally gets the lesser of the custody arrangements. That's why I'm heavily leaning towards the "you can stay and expect my support under these conditions, otherwise, expect me to make your life hell until you leave."

Besides, with her around and me listening to her complaints (at least the valid ones), I'm practicing for my next relationships while I help her go to school and support herself financially instead of sucking me dry.

Bottom line I'm hearing here though is "go the divorce route" and detach as she's not worth it. That's also what my gut is telling me given the nature of a lot of her "problems" with me.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

IOBits said:


> I thought about DNA testing, but all 4 of them look like spitting images of me. I also have good enough relationships with them that I don't think I could let her have full custody of any of them, even if it meant an additional financial burden for the next 18 or so years. That and the 4 of them get along so well that I think splitting them up would cause many more problems than it might solve for me.
> 
> Regarding the "grow a pair", comment... I'm quickly working on it. Only reason I've stuck around this long is I want custody, and my friends that have been through this recently around where I live report that the leaving spouse generally gets the lesser of the custody arrangements. That's why I'm heavily leaning towards the "you can stay and expect my support under these conditions, otherwise, expect me to make your life hell until you leave."
> 
> ...


She is a serial cheater. They rarely ever change and it rarely ever ends well. Whether you like it or not you have 2 choices: Be a cuckold or Divorce her.

You haven't earned any respect from her. You begged for her to stay. You should have packed her bags and bought a one way ticket to her mom's.

As for custody. You need to take a much more active approach to hands on for your kids. Make them breakfast, pack them lunch, take them to sports, hike, fish, hunt with them. You be the sole parent and act like you are the only one who can do this because one day you might have to do it all yourself. It happened to me so I know. I love it now. Kids grades are improved a lot. I'm much more involved with them. My two oldest stay with me full time, little one is coming after court.

As for helping her. You will have to pay alimony. I think the idea of helping her with school may sound good, but she is going to suck you dry anyway when you get divorced. Don't be fooled by that. Separate your finances and start saving for a rainy day.

In Maryland, alimony is rehabilitative. I have to pay her so much for 3 years. She has a college degree. I am getting reamed for child support, but they are my kids so I don't mind.

Learn what you can about each in your state and prepare for it. I'm still digging out of the hole, but by the end of the year, I should be much better off. I've been sleeping on the floor with a pillow pet, but my kids are well taken care of. I love to go over my girlfriends house. She has a fancy contraption called a bed! Love those things!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

She got angry during your 180 because it was working, listening won't solve your issue. You need to exopose her. Sheis a serial cheater though don't you think you deserve better? Also, get checked for STDs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What do her parents say to her? 

What state do you live in?

The promise you made, precludes protecting your kids, break it, you are in a war of survival for your family.

She is a serial cheater, sooner or later, force a psych evaluation, she is messed up and will/can not change.

Also try, dadsdivorce.com

Find the best dads divorce lawyer you can.

Do a real 180, paying particular attn to "be cheerful " around her.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, find who she has been cheating with and expose them all, including putting them on cheaterville.com, its also your responsibility to help protect other families from these creeps.

Read the two books in my signature.

Google free book No More Mister Nice Guy, you can read that online.

These books are most important to you and your boys lives.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Donotforget to use voice activated recorders in your house and velcroed under the front seat of her car. Get the fifty dollar sony model with lithium batteries at bestbuy or walmart.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Is this for real. I guess for now I assume it is. This is a mess. How on earth can you possibly trust her, from here on out. There is no way of having complete trust, regardless if you were 97% sure. She has pulled a whammy on you. I guess the standard applies here. DNA, STD, IC for you not sure MC would work, but hey you never know. Now for the harsh, you may or may not have the stomach for. The mind movies will put you through the ringer. No sleep, eating is a joke, work will suffer and you will probably just be super depressed. Try and exercise, seek counseling with pharmacological help (Ambien - sleep, Anti-D - for a pick me up). Be prepared for the rollercoaster of emotions without them. Tend to your children, ask her to leave for a while. She will probably see someone, out of sight out of mind. DO NOT! repeat DO NOT! have sexual relations with her. Right now you need to dig deep within yourself and detach. Prep divorce papers and serve her. Show her you mean business. Man up and defend yourself and prepare for the worst. Good luck.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

What in the world does being a Mormon have to do with divorce? You still read the Bible right? Adultery is still a valid biblical reason to divorce right? If thine right hand offends thee, cut it off.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

As for your promise to not snoop anymore. I believe your wife promised to only be with you right? A promise to a liar holds no validity.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife has made herself your most vicious enemy and also the worst enemy of your boy's family. She can't be trusted. She has broken her vows before God.

Worrying about breaking your promise to her, at this point, is silly.

Cowboy up, she is a traitor.

Btw, do not tell us how good a mom she is, we've heard that about enough cheaters already.

Btw2, ask her if she now considers herself to be an atheist.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

If she was a good mom she wouldn't be betraying her children.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

IO

How old are you two?

And what problems do you feel you have and contributed to the demise of your marriage??

HM


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Tell her to get out, if she can not stop the affairs. Do get the information that you need, she is cheating and respect yourself about her privacy. She lost that when she had the first affair. Stop this nonsense.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

1. Deploy vars at home and in the cars
2. GPS on her car to track her to her dates
3. Post every OM, past and present up on cheaterville
4. Cut her off financially as much as you can - especially credit cards
5. Get the kids DNA checked regardless of how they look
6. Key logger on all computers

And stop spending money on her going to school, That's throwing good money away on her.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Have you brought this to your Bishop? 

I hope you have a good one. Most will tell you to suck it up and preserve the family unit. Does anyone in the extended family know what she is doing. Family can have a huge influence on a person and pressure them out of the affair. 

But I think your wife is a pretty disgusting person. She is indeed a serial cheat. But if you want to spend your celestial eternity with a lowdown cheat, you go right ahead. 

It is better to lose all your money and retirement than to lose your soul. She is destroying your soul.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> Tell her to get out, if she can not stop the affairs. Do get the information that you need, she is cheating and respect yourself about her privacy. She lost that when she had the first affair. Stop this nonsense.


He's LDS. The church would come down on him like a ton of bricks. You have no idea the control they have over their minions. Preservation of the family trumps personal happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Between a Rock and a Hard Place...*



LostViking said:


> He's LDS. The church would come down on him like a ton of bricks. You have no idea the control they have over their minions. Preservation of the family trumps personal happiness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's not a scripture based philosophy. At least as it pertains to adultery.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

LostViking said:


> He's LDS. The church would come down on him like a ton of bricks. You have no idea the control they have over their minions. Preservation of the family trumps personal happiness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you saying the LDS condones adultery, open marriages or what?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Are you saying the LDS condones adultery, open marriages or what?


It has to do with all that celestial family stuff in their doctrine. They will bring him and her in, chastise her, make her take classes or maybe counseling. He would be shown his failings as her husband and his failures that made her cheat.. And everyone will okay nice and cry and laugh and at the end when they have pressured him out of divorcing her it will all be swept under the rug. A year down the road she will be back at it. If he divorces her against the church's wishes they could excommunicate him. 

Think of the Mormons as Catholics on steroids.

And remember, some Sections of the LDS either openly or secret still condone polygamy. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Growapair (Sep 19, 2013)

This is a great example why religion is detriment to the overall progress of our species. He will subject pain and humiliation to himself because his invisible friend tells him to! Ok, I'm done talking about the magic man!

Listen buddy, you're a doormat. Your wife does not respect you nor cares for you. She knows you are going nowhere, therefore there is no reason for her to stop her affairs. pack her clothes and kick her out. Let her see you're a man, and see how quickly she starts to respect you. 

By the way, 90% of the women you will meet in the future will also cheat on you due to your lack of backbone and testicles! Alpha up and stop being a doormat. 

It angers when I read guys going through this!


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

It's not God telling him to do this. It's a humanized organization that makes up these rules. The Judeo-Christian foundation abhors adultery and allows betrayed spouses to divorce. It's when power hungry organizations such as the LDS and Catholics, who's primary goal is subjugation and power, get their hands on marriage, that things go awry. 

Leave God out of it. It wasn't his idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

LostViking said:


> It has to do with all that celestial family stuff in their doctrine. They will bring him and her in, chastise her, make her take classes or maybe counseling. He would be shown his failings as her husband and his failures that made her cheat.. And everyone will okay nice and cry and laugh and at the end when they have pressured him out of divorcing her it will all be swept under the rug. A year down the road she will be back at it. If he divorces her against the church's wishes they could excommunicate him.
> 
> Think of the Mormons as Catholics on steroids.
> 
> ...


So then if that is the case were I in his situation I would immediately find myself a girlfriend or two...or five. After all if I know its going to get rugswept anyway.....


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

LostViking said:


> He's LDS. The church would come down on him like a ton of bricks. You have no idea the control they have over their minions. Preservation of the family trumps personal happiness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If they are about preserving the family, why don't they marshal their very large set of human resources and destroy her affairs ?

She's the serial cheater who is hurting the family, why doesn't the church actively block these affairs?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

LostViking said:


> It's not God telling him to do this. It's a humanized organization that makes up these rules. The Judeo-Christian foundation abhors adultery and allows betrayed spouses to divorce. It's when power hungry organizations such as the LDS and Catholics, who's primary goal is subjugation and power, get their hands on marriage, that things go awry.
> 
> Leave God out of it. It wasn't his idea.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its one of the reasons I have had such difficulty remaining in any particular church even though I consider myself a Christian. I've debated my current church's policies so much that my pastor still gets wide eyed and shakes when I ask for a one on one meeting. If its not based on scripture then its based on mammon.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Your wife is a serial cheater who has been putting your health at risk for STD's. What more needs to be said?
1. Get tested for STD's
2. Get paternity testing on the children even if they look like you.
3. Get an attorney and divorce her.

She clearly has absolutely no respect for you or your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Growapair said:


> This is a great example why religion is detriment to the overall progress of our species. He will subject pain and humiliation to himself because his invisible friend tells him to! Ok, I'm done talking about the magic man!
> 
> Listen buddy, you're a doormat. Your wife does not respect you nor cares for you. She knows you are going nowhere, therefore there is no reason for her to stop her affairs. pack her clothes and kick her out. Let her see you're a man, and see how quickly she starts to respect you.
> 
> ...


You have two choices logically.........God, a soul and free will. or atheism, fate and no free will. It is as simple as that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

OP, is she cheating with other Mormons?


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

RottDad42... Yes, unfortunately, it's real. I've been quite naive. Self acknowledged, I'm a socially awkward introvert that managed to spend most of his years behind a computer screen instead of learning about relationships and the back and forth that is supposed to be in them.

I'm working through more of this. Trying to figure out what is real and what isn't. I now can't find any real evidence of a current second, local relationship, but the Internet one is on going and I got more facts about it today by looking just a little bit around. He'll be going on Cheaterville, though he's not currently married. The others will too if I can remember their names.

About the Mormonism topic, that's why I brought it up. There is a certain permanent aspect to the marriage that extends beyond our lives here. If I keep my promises, I don't lose the blessings of a temple marriage which include going to heaven. Yes, I firmly believe in the afterlife and in doctrinal principles.

No, the LDS church does NOT condone open marriages or adultery. I've been to see my bishop, and she's confessed to him and lost some status in the church. She will likely lose her entire membership in the next few months with the choices she is now making. She has been having relationships with people outside of the church for the most part, but there was one that was in, a mutual friend of ours, in fact. Not so much anymore though...

At this point, I agree with everybody stating that she is destroying the family and that I need to protect my children. Unfortunately, the only records that I kept indicate she has 1 relationship going on that is generally long-distance, although they did spend at least one night together.

Now, the ONLY reason at this point that I would continue a relationship would be if we could turn the marriage back around to a trusting, healthy relationship that would be a good example to my children. 99% that's not going to happen. I know that and am preparing for that as best I can. I also know that the only way I could ever believe she was actually trying would be if she said so, and proved it with some very open practices. Stuff like I would have passwords to every account. Random and at-will access to her phone. Key loggers on the computers, etc. Without that, this road goes straight to divorce and she can figure out her own way to go to school.

Now, let's agree to disagree about whether or not religion is good or bad for relationships. I'm not going to change my religion. Use it as a frame of reference, and I'll be happy to explain why I feel the way I do about anything. Most of my opinions are my own, and not specifically those of Mormonism.

About how daft I look, yeah, I wish I had found TAM 6 years ago when we were in serious trouble. As it was, I didn't know where to look.


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

And yes, I agree that she will drag my soul down to hell if this doesn't get fixed one way or another. I've setup timelines that indicate the max I can tolerate, and I'm monitoring those with the MC, my Bishop and a few good friends, some with experience, and some trained counselors.


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

Also, the LDS church takes affairs quite seriously. The punishment is almost always a limiting of the allowable service that the offending spouse is able to give in public callings within the church. Since everything is a volunteer position, they can just about only attend services, but they cannot volunteer. The worst cases are "excommunicated" where membership privileges are completely revoked and the offending parties are not allowed to attend meetings.

It's a serious business.

I'm trying to man up, which is why I'm here asking for suggestions. I'm trying to figure out what is being respectful of myself, and what is being prideful and unforgiving. I know for a fact that I've been way too forgiving and "doormat-ish" for a long time, much more so than the church ever taught me to be.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't use your religion or kids as an excuse to avoid being a man.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Religion can be a great spiritual asset as long as you don't lose your common sense and try to become a martyr. Your kids need you strong.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Agreed. God calls his believers to be warriors at times. This is your time to protect your children from their disgrace of a mother. You need to gird your loins and stand for your principles. It is the only way she will respect you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tribesman said:


> Grow a pair and divorce her, she is worthless. Find someone who treats you right.
> 
> Also stop being a Mormon, it is a silly waste of time.


Yeah. And that comment was appropriate when it left your brain, but doesn't actually seem to be relevant to the problems of the OP. *Does it*?

Note to tribesman: There's a section on TAM for dealing with religious matters. This isn't it.

OP: File for divorce on the grounds of multiple adultery.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Yeah. And that comment was appropriate when it left your brain, but doesn't actually seem to be relevant to the problems of the OP. *Does it*?
> 
> Note to tribesman: There's a section on TAM for dealing with religious matters. This isn't it.
> 
> OP: File for divorce on the grounds of multiple adultery.


Multiple multiple +.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

So OP is it a case where your wife is "sorry" for what she is doing but cannot stop herself? What is her attitude towards you? Does she feign love for you or is it contempt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostViking said:


> So OP is it a case where your wife is "sorry" for what she is doing but cannot stop herself? What is her attitude towards you? Does she feign love for you or is it contempt?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or has she transferred the contempt she feels for herself into an outward manifestation as contempt for you?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Coming in late, but we all know that as long as there is a third person in the marriage then the marriage is toast.

We all know that with out consequences bad behavior continues.

So in short you continue to do the same thing and expect a change...thats just crazy.

Your old lady continues to screw around and you want help...help your self and take the tough road to show your chick how serious you really are in no longer sharing her and through tough action on your part break this family apart and let your wife go....it just might save your marriage.

It sounds like your old lady has your number and you ain't going any were.

As hard as it is you must show her different by taking action and leave word out of this....your words haven't changed one thing with regards to how your chick treats you.

Sorry my man I wish I had a magic pill for you, but I don't and you will have to learn just like the rest of us did...and thats just letting her go.

She just might start to second guess her choices...she just might think twice about her disicions.....when she sees you just letting go of her.

Chicks dig confident guys, your new additude in bailing on her just might show her how confident you really are and it might bring her back.

I think its time for a game change here and sure it might push her futher away, but face.....she already gone and the current game plan ain't doing sh1t.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Why does she still have Internet access? Either turn off the Internet at home or password protect it, shut off her cell phone NOW! Don't pay for her adultery !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm still confused about the divorce option. Are you simultaneously accepting the possibility and ruling it out because of your religious commitments?

Whatever you wind up doing, for right now I would start with a full, correctly implemented 180. This is for you and will immediately start to clear and strengthen your mind so that you can decide what to do.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LostViking said:


> It has to do with all that celestial family stuff in their doctrine. They will bring him and her in, chastise her, make her take classes or maybe counseling. He would be shown his failings as her husband and his failures that made her cheat.. And everyone will okay nice and cry and laugh and at the end when they have pressured him out of divorcing her it will all be swept under the rug. A year down the road she will be back at it. If he divorces her against the church's wishes they could excommunicate him.
> 
> Think of the Mormons as Catholics on steroids.
> 
> ...


Or they'll excommunicate her. Happened to someone I knew of.

And if a wife is adulterous and shows no remorse? They'll not be unhappy with a divorce.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Bits, so is the reason you are waiting things out and trying to obtain evidence because you need to convince the church leadership to condone the divorce? How long are you planning to wait? I had s friend that was a devout Catholic. His wife ran around on him frequenting truck stops and bars. For years he tried to convince the church leadership to grant him a divorce. They continually pulled her in and chastised her. She made promise after promise to start being faithful. He continued to find her spread eagle in the back of some guy's truck. Finally he just gave up and started drinking heavily. I asked him why he was destroying himself with alcohol. He told me that he couldn't divorce her and he couldn't stop her. He said that his only release was death. He said that he wanted to die as quickly as he could so he would be released from his torment. He said he knew that he would go to heaven and would never have to set his eyes on his wife ever again. He died two years later at the age of 46. His wife died a couple of years after that. Some said she got Aids. Bits, I don't want you to end up like my friend.


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

LostViking / MattMatt - She blames me because she "was trying" for 6 years to get through to me. I'm not sure what her mental state truly is, though, as she's never been good at opening up to me. I never realized I needed her to, so it didn't bother me until I realized it was a major part of the problem. I'd say she has contempt for me as I did not listen to her for 6 years. Listening to her, however, would have meant peeling back the onion of her verbal attacks to get at what she was actually trying to communicate. I've never been good at responding to verbal attacks in any other way than withdrawal though.

Also, regarding the excommunication thing, she's on the hook for it already if she doesn't do what she should. Whether or not the marriage sticks is not a requirement, so the church is plenty understanding in this case if divorce occurs. The bishop has also been VERY clear to state that this is not my fault, so I am on good ground there.

SBrown - I have thought of that, and will be doing that as part of my exposure / divorce proceedings.

Bfree - The only reason I am waiting now (and now only for a week or two tops) is to come up with a financial plan and to gather as much intel about who else she might be involved with so I can warn their families if applicable.	

All - You're all right about taking a stand and breaking up the situation by taking a stand. To be clear, I plan to gather as much information as I can for the next week, and then present it all at once right after I've laid a barrage on the OM. He's not married, so I'm going to try to find his parents / siblings. We have some mutual friends that I think will also help pressure him to go away.

The 180 is going to be reimplemented in full, with no backing out this time.


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## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

IOBits said:


> LostViking / MattMatt - She blames me because she "was trying" for 6 years to get through to me. I'm not sure what her mental state truly is, though, as she's never been good at opening up to me. I never realized I needed her to, so it didn't bother me until I realized it was a major part of the problem. I'd say she has contempt for me as I did not listen to her for 6 years. Listening to her, however, would have meant peeling back the onion of her verbal attacks to get at what she was actually trying to communicate. I've never been good at responding to verbal attacks in any other way than withdrawal though.
> 
> Also, regarding the excommunication thing, she's on the hook for it already if she doesn't do what she should. Whether or not the marriage sticks is not a requirement, so the church is plenty understanding in this case if divorce occurs. The bishop has also been VERY clear to state that this is not my fault, so I am on good ground there.
> 
> ...


I don;t think exposure isn't going to change anything in this relationship, other than exposing to the OM's wives, that is the only thing that might break up the relationships.

Doing a 180 sill be your best bet, and your only hope I think at this point. 

You will either have to leave her or live through all the stages this woman is going to go through including all of her affairs, she clearly has a lot of issues and that will take work on her part if she wants to get past them

Good luck to you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't think she's worried about ex communication nor divorce otherwise she wouldn't be a serial cheater.

Advice - file for D and move on to better times


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Being verbally abusive isn't the way to communicate with your husband. There are many options and none of those are cheating.

Has she been in counseling. It sounds like she is damaged goods and blaming you for it.

Does she act like she cares if she is excommunicated?

How will custody work in your state?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Break her accounts.
Break them hard. When she whines ask her which promise is bigger; marriage vows or one to a serial cheater.
Get two Sony icdpx312 or icdpx333 vars and place them 1 in car and one in whatever room in your home she talks in. This is to get you ahead of her.
Get one piece of utter proof
Expose
Destroy.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> Break her accounts.
> Break them hard. When she whines ask her which promise is bigger; marriage vows or one to a serial cheater.
> Get two Sony icdpx312 or icdpx333 vars and place them 1 in car and one in whatever room in your home she talks in. This is to get you ahead of her.
> Get one piece of utter proof
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

And my apologies for other's anti-LDS remarks. Take the high road, and expect that one way or another, you won't remain married to a cheater.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

IOBits said:


> So here's the thing. During that initial phase, I said I would never break into her accounts again. However, I find myself in the annoying situation of needing more information to confront the 2 people that I know about now. I've seen them send FB messages and text messages to her phone. I'm now caught between wanting to keep my promise, but also wanting to confront the current problem relationships.


 She promised before God, family and friends to forsake all others. In other words, she promised not to f**k other men. She is a serial cheater that has repeatedly broken this core promise for most of your marraige, both before and after you hacked her accounts. Factor in the obvious fact that if she was not using these accounts to facilitate f**king other people, you would feel no need to hack into her accounts, and you should feel fine hacking away. 

Although it is normally wrong for the police to tap your phone lines, an exception is made if you are using these lines to help facilitate breaking the law. Same logic applies here as she is using these accounts to break her vows. Your right to know is thus greater than her right to privacy as it greatly impacts your life and the life of your children. Your wife has lost her moral compass, stop letter her lead the way. She is in no positions to tell you right from wrong. BTW, other then when you are in the bathroom, there should be no expectation of privacy in a healthy marraige.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Get a single piece of incontrovertible proof. Like her car parked at OM house or something. Her email or fb combined with intel from VARs will get you ahead of her.

SAY NOTHING. PLAY DUMB HUSBAND!!!!

I assume no fault state. If fault state get court admissible evidence to escape alimony.

Then divorce and rebuild. Serial cheat. I see no hope.

Use it for the exposure to both families and 1st circle friends.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I'm still confused about the divorce option. Are you simultaneously accepting the possibility and ruling it out because of your religious commitments?
> 
> Whatever you wind up doing, for right now I would start with a full, correctly implemented 180. This is for you and will immediately start to clear and strengthen your mind so that you can decide what to do.


As far as I can remember he can file for divorce now in the temporal sphere, yet he would still be married to his wife after death for eternity.

Unless he goes for a temple divorce, which is a for ever divorce.


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

I don't know what the deal is yet with the "temple divorce", but it's one of those things the church believes will get "sorted out" in the afterlife. I do have to obtain permission from the church leadership to be "temple married" to another woman, and that can only be after the first one is legally terminated via divorce in the secular sphere. I'm really not so concerned about that aspect of this at this time as I think it will sort itself out.

I'm really just concerned that I do this the right way where I have the evidence I need to protect myself and my kids. I hear what each of you are saying and I am grateful to you for saying it. I'll report back.

One thing about the "incontrovertible evidence", however, is that it is currently a Facebook relationship with a guy 3 states away. The only time they've connected is when she convinced me (in my naivety) that she needed a break to go run a race in that state. She's been doing a lot of running races recently, so that wasn't that big of a reach. The man radar going off should have been listened to, and I've learned that lesson now the hard way.


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## IOBits (Apr 30, 2013)

And yes, I'm in a no fault state. Part of the reason the helping her go through school situation is tempting is that she's chosen a great school, promised that she's taking on the debt (although legally that's not binding, I know), and that once she gets out, she'll have a great road to making her own living so that I should not need to pay any alimony, and child support will be fairly low as well.

In most no-fault states, however, does infidelity factor into custody? I know it does not factor into alimony where I am.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

as far as you not wanting to dna test the kids because they are the spitting image of you....yeah got a friend has 3 kids found out wife cheated middle kid the "spitting image of him" lol the only one of the three that isnt his. but hey spitting images count...i guess


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

That's because women are attracted to certain types as a rule. They probably resemble her dad too.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

IOBits said:


> ...During that initial phase, I said I would never break into her accounts again....


Why the hell would you ever say that? Don't hold yourself to that one...it was a stupid thing to say, since she can NEVER be trusted.

What are you waiting for here? She's a serial cheater, and if you stay with her, you'd be spending the rest of you life monitoring her behavior while she continues to cheat every chance she gets. 

There is nothing to salvage in this relationship. Get divorced, split custody, and get some independent counselling so that you NEVER put up with crap like this again.

Show your kids what a real man does...he leaves the lying cheater and has a normal, happy life with healthy relationships. He doesn't stay with the cheater and live in misery, begging for scraps from someone who doesn't love him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

IOBits said:


> I don't know what the deal is yet with the "temple divorce", but it's one of those things the church believes will get "sorted out" in the afterlife. I do have to obtain permission from the church leadership to be "temple married" to another woman, and that can only be after the first one is legally terminated via divorce in the secular sphere. I'm really not so concerned about that aspect of this at this time as I think it will sort itself out.
> 
> I'm really just concerned that I do this the right way where I have the evidence I need to protect myself and my kids. I hear what each of you are saying and I am grateful to you for saying it. I'll report back.
> 
> One thing about the "incontrovertible evidence", however, is that it is currently a Facebook relationship with a guy 3 states away. The only time they've connected is when she convinced me (in my naivety) that she needed a break to go run a race in that state. She's been doing a lot of running races recently, so that wasn't that big of a reach. The man radar going off should have been listened to, and I've learned that lesson now the hard way.


I knew a couple who got a temple divorce. You could ask for an interview with your Stake President for details.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

You need to realize a couple of things. Wake up.

She is not someone you want to spend your life with. She has treated you very poorly and does not respect you AT ALL. Leave her.

Who cares what she thinks? The only person whose opinion matters is yours.

Man up and move on with your life. Staying only sets a very bad example for your boys.


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