# Marriage vs. Dating Exclusively



## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

Perhaps a poll?

Disregarding religious issues, tax benefits, children, etc. but just focusing strictly on a relationship perspective, what is the advantage to marriage over an EXCLUSIVE DATING situation?

Can't say longevity - lots of D's.
Can't say fidelity -- lots of cheating in M's.
Can't say happiness -- lots of unhappily M'd people.

I would say when I first got M'd, I believed all the hype. But now as I prepare for S from my H after 20 years of M, I wonder why I would ever get M'd again...

What would be your reason to M (first time or again) vs. just remain DATING EXCLUSIVELY indefinitely?

Edited: changed from FWB to exclusive dating.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*

I personally don't see the point of marriage anymore. That's not to say I only want an FWB, but a LTR would be nice without the paper.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*

A FWB scenario usually does not include romantic love, but often marriages do not or lose that anyway. A LTR living together is as good as marriage to me.

I did marry again, and it was primarily for practical benefits. We are deeply in love, too, but don't see marriage as a necessity to define a relationship.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*

I'm with Jelly-- marriage added zero to my life and was a huge drain of time, energy and money. However, there's still a lot of space on the continuum between "married" and "ongoing hookups". 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the great part about being a grown up is making your own choices and figuring out what works _for you_. In my case, I have a steady relationship with a great guy. We get together once or twice a week, talk/text most days and find that to be a perfect arrangement. It's been a year and a half and no plans to move in, get married...any of that stuff. We have a nice time together but frankly enjoy being able to have our time apart as well. That's what works for us. I have friends that would be miserable without having a "goal" to work toward in a relationship or someone to "take care of". Crazy talk if you ask me, but whatever makes them happy, right??:rofl:


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*

FWB's are highly temporary and short-lived. Most people in FWB's are aware they are just a temporary fill-in until one of them meets someone they actually want a relationship with, LTR or marriage. FWB's date other people while they are FWB'ing with you.

You also never bring FWB's around family, or make them any part of your life except for sex, really. That's the only reason you keep them around, right? Otherwise they'd just be friends, acquaintances or nothing.


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## DaytoDay (Jun 23, 2013)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*



COGypsy said:


> I'm with Jelly-- marriage added zero to my life and was a huge drain of time, energy and money. However, there's still a lot of space on the continuum between "married" and "ongoing hookups".
> 
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: the great part about being a grown up is making your own choices and figuring out what works _for you_. In my case, I have a steady relationship with a great guy. We get together once or twice a week, talk/text most days and find that to be a perfect arrangement. It's been a year and a half and no plans to move in, get married...any of that stuff. We have a nice time together but frankly enjoy being able to have our time apart as well. That's what works for us. I have friends that would be miserable without having a "goal" to work toward in a relationship or someone to "take care of". Crazy talk if you ask me, but whatever makes them happy, right??:rofl:


This is more in-line with my current state of mind. I find the most difficult aspect of M being "living together." I suspect there's an infinite number of ways to approach it, but living together seems to emphasize the differences in schedules, views on housekeeping, managing expenses, conflicts with other friends, personal boundaries, etc. I've never had a FWB, but I guess it does imply the lack of romantic love. Still, I don't have that now but still have all the negatives.


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## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*

I would never take a FWB situation over a marriage, because I get very "invested" in my primary relationship, and want someone who gives as much to me as I do to him. 

That said, I would absolutely be open to a LTR with no plans to marry, if something terrible happened to my current spouse. I do not need to be married again.

I've heard all the pro-marriage arguments, believe me, ("You need the safety and assurance of lifetime vows to feel secure," or "If it's just a LTR how do you know he's not going to walk out tomorrow because he saw someone prettier on the subway?"). I used to believe them, but not anymore. 

People always, always, have the choice to leave. Marriage provides an illusion that those choices are gone, but they aren't. It's a lie. We should have plenty of evidence by now that married people still retain the choice to leave, or find someone else, if either their unhappiness or character flaws prompt them to do so. 

My husband and I are incredibly in love still, long after our vows were said, in part because we recognize that it's LOVE keeping us together, not vows, and love has to be cultivated constantly. You can't take it for granted, even in a marriage. 

Isn't this the very problem that undermines so many marriages? Taking our partner for granted, just assuming that even if you're not trying to make them happy, they have no options? Forgetting that we have to keep re-seducing each other, re-capturing each other, and re-prove every day that this is the best decision your partner could have made, because you are AWESOME at being their lover?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

There are legal and financial advantages to being married, e.g. tax relief, insurance and pension benefits upon death of your spouse, etc. If your partner is from another country, they are eligible for citizenship, etc. These are some of the reasons that gays have fought for marriage. 

FWB is entirely different in my mind than a committed, long term relationship. I'm okay with FWB in the short term but would like a LTR eventually. Whether or not I would get married again - not sure. The financial advantages might sway me in that direction, but my expectations of marriage would be completely different. I didn't realize it consciously, but I thought marriage would change things (him). It didn't. 

The hardest part to me is the living together. Too much fodder for conflict and complacency. I kind of like the idea of continuing to have our own separate spaces. But, obviously, there are financial advantages to living together. Whatever I do, I'm going to take my sweet time about it and not jump into anything.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Having been through a bitter, drawn-out divorce which was nothing but a huge waste of money and an emotional drain, I will NEVER get married again.

I AM in a long-term relationship (4 years) am very happy, and actually FEEL married. We live together, are completely compatible, and make each other very happy. He has no desire to get married either.

(No interest in FWB relationships, so if I wasn't in a LTR I'd be single and happily acquiring a pack of dogs to live with uppy:. Seriously.)

I just will never entangle myself legally again. That probably sounds jaded, but it's true.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That sounds ideal to me, Happy.


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

The advantages of marriage over dating are much in every way. I am assuming that when you say "dating" in this scenario you would be referring to a type of relationship "like" marriage just without the "obligation" (piece of paper). I am familiar with a study that shows that people who cohabitate together have higher levels of domestic violence, lower levels of relational satisfaction, and poorer communication. Tax benefits are given to married couples for a reason - hard to discount that factor. Religion is one thing relationship with God is a whole other thing. Let's summarize that by calling it the "spiritual" factor. Every human has a spirit and there are influences within us that find their source outside us. Relationships are a "spiritual" entity and effects every part of who we are - hard to discount that aspect as well.

I went through a divorce five years ago and I understand your pain and heartache. The worse part of it is that I took my wife for granted and did not value her as highly as I should have. The disappointment that you are feeling obviously clouds your view of relationships right now. I am truly sorry for the heartache and pain. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Blessings.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*



norajane said:


> You also never bring FWB's around family, or make them any part of your life except for sex, really. That's the only reason you keep them around, right? Otherwise they'd just be friends, acquaintances or nothing.


I disagree. I've had several FWBs and in every case, the F still means what it stands for.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

*Re: Marriage vs. FWB*



Jetranger said:


> I disagree. I've had several FWBs and in every case, the F still means what it stands for.


I think we could do a whole 'nother thread on FWB because they all seem to be different like snowflakes. There are some that are strictly sex. There are others where you talk more and / or do things together. I have a gf who is in a FWB where they hang out and she interacts with his social circle but neither of them considers the other a girlfriend or boyfriend. 

One distinction between FWB and "girlfriend / boyfriend" that I've heard is that a FWB doesn't have any obligation to spend time with you or make themselves available. In my case I would not want my FWB to meet my kids or other platonic friends because I don't want to have to explain the relationship. Also, there's no expectation of exclusivity with a FWB. A boyfriend would be different.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

WolverineFan said:


> Relationships are a "spiritual" entity and effects every part of who we are - hard to discount that aspect as well.


I'm agnostic but there's part of this that I think I agree with. On some level, a marriage isn't just about the two people in it - it's about your families, friends, and communities coming together. We respond differently to a couple that is married than one that is not because there is at least the illusion of permanency and commitment. I respond differently to my daughter's boyfriend than I might her husband. I would expect more of her husband than her boyfriend. And I would feel more comfortable forming a bond myself with her husband because I have some reasonable expectation that he will stick around. 

When we get married we ARE saying to our beloveds that we intend to stick around and there's some comfort in that for the partners and for the surrounding community. But...all of us here know that's kind of an illusion. Not sure what to do around that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yep. Because the fact is that a lot of marriages end in divorce. That's why the whole permanency/forever thing seems like a crock to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> That's why the whole permanency/forever thing *seems like a crock to me.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me too. With the advent of "No-fault" states, it hardly seems worth it anymore. (Admittedly, I am jaded)


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jaded? Or just realistic?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Jaded? Or just realistic?


Words of wisdom Beans... *Realistic!!!!*


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

COGypsy said:


> In my case, I have a steady relationship with a great guy. We get together once or twice a week, talk/text most days and find that to be a perfect arrangement. It's been a year and a half and no plans to move in, get married...any of that stuff. *We have a nice time together but frankly enjoy being able to have our time apart as well.*





DaytoDay said:


> This is more in-line with my current state of mind.* I find the most difficult aspect of M being "living together."* I suspect there's an infinite number of ways to approach it, but living together seems to emphasize the differences in schedules, views on housekeeping, managing expenses, conflicts with other friends, personal boundaries, etc.





firebelly1 said:


> *The hardest part to me is the living together.* Too much fodder for conflict and complacency. I kind of like the idea of continuing to have our own separate spaces. But, obviously, there are financial advantages to living together. Whatever I do, I'm going to take my sweet time about it and not jump into anything.


I also have a hard time with the idea of living together. I've often thought I must have (emotional) intimacy issues or something, because that's where I get stuck when considering marriage with my SO. 

I associate living together with lack of time to myself, lack of privacy or the freedom to do what I want when I want (or NOT do anything!), having to compromise on ac/heat vs. cost, wake up times (I love sleep and he sleeps 5 hours a night), bed times, etc. AND, I worry about complacency and taking each other for granted, as well as sometimes just needing to spend time apart if we're together all the time. 

I've thought it might work if our home was big enough for me to have my own nesting space, but it really doesn't work that way when you live with someone. I lived with an ex-bf long ago, and he could never accept that needing my alone-time in my own space was not code for "I want to get away from YOU because I don't love you." I don't believe my SO would feel that way, and as long as he was able to get outside and do his sporty things or work on his projects, he probably wouldn't even notice.

So, like Gypsy, we're both happy with our current arrangement, and see no need to change. Yet, we talk about retiring early (we're in our 40's) and living in a beach cottage somewhere warm where I can garden year-round and have access to water...

Is my hesitance on living together practical concerns, or intimacy issues? :scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

norajane said:


> I associate living together with lack of time to myself, lack of privacy or the freedom to do what I want when I want (or NOT do anything!), having to compromise on ac/heat vs. cost, wake up times (I love sleep and he sleeps 5 hours a night), bed times, etc. AND, I worry about complacency and taking each other for granted, as well as sometimes just needing to spend time apart if we're together all the time.


:rofl: I can sooo relate to this. I love nothing more than to walk around my house in my wifebeater and panties, cracking up and down the a/c when/how I want and not having to worry about picking up after anyone, watching what I want on the TV and making chicken with a side of peanut butter for dinner. Sometimes I seriously really can't imagine living with someone again. It seems stifling. I can do what I want/when I want and not have to worry about someone snoring or me wanting them to GTFO cause they have to go back home eventually. 

I have a funny story: seeing a man and after our tryst he started falling asleep. I slinked out of bed and started putting my clothes on. "Where are you going, Jelly?" Me: I'm going home." Him: "But, why?" Me" Because I miss my bed." He started pouting, "Staaay.... "You are a very strange woman." 

Indeed.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

OMG, the snoring! I buy earplugs in bulk now from Amazon.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

norajane said:


> Is my hesitance on living together practical concerns, or intimacy issues? :scratchhead:


NOT intimacy issues. Totally practical. Virginia Wolf was spot on when she wrote "A Room of One's Own." 

Recently I visited my ex husband's male cousin and his wife / baby. They owned a three story townhome with a tiny little garage space that he had converted into his man cave. As he showed us the space I thought "Where is the woman cave?" There was no space in the house that was just hers. 

On the one hand I don't want to have to have the same old fights with the next person about paying bills on time and it's awesome not to have to answer to ANYONE about whether I make the bed or save the dishes til the morning. On the other hand, there is a part of me that wants to A) pick a partner that has better communication skills than the last one did (not hard) and B) I really want to be better at conflict resolution myself and I'm not going to be better at it if I avoid it altogether. Hrmph.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm happily married but if for whatever reason I found myself single and dating, I would not get married again. 

One reason is at almost 50, I just feel like why? 

Another reason is just practical. I don't want any assets that belong to my kids to be given to a 2nd husband. I could have what I think is an airtight prenup or will but it can still be fought and overturned. Not very romantic but there it is.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I just thought of another reason. I have kids and if he has kids, then you have to figure out all the holidays, where to go, what to do and stuff like that. Why complicate your life?


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Dating and maybe long term relationships. 

Marriage is a very bad business deal - especially in the Western world. One party can leave without justification and abscond with cash and prizes. The other party will be on the hook to pay maintenance/support and split assets.

No bueno. 

HL


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## Legalaff (May 31, 2014)

I am happy that part (snoring) is over.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

My wife and I dated/cohabitated exclusively for about 8 years before we married...

Her family was already acting like we were married. My MIL told me she saw me as another son, my FIL liked me as well, along with my BIL And SIL. They became my family before my wife and I married... They never asked us when we were going to marry... None of them. After 22 years, I have a good relationship with all of them. 

We didn't need to be married for them to think of me as an addition to their family... 

At that time, both of my parents had passed away. My parents were never parents anyway... My wife's parents were in a way the parents I never had. I wanted them to respect me. Even though there already did. I just didn't know it...

I think living together with anybody is a challenge. I had guy roommates way way back, and for awhile, I didn't like it... I lived with my step- sister. I like to have space once in a while...

So marriage vs dating exclussively? That depends if "dating" is also living together...

I think when people are dating exclusively, they behave better...its so much easier to tell somebody to take a hike when they become a-holes if they are not living together...

I think with many marriages comes expectations. (Not all) When a spouse doesn't meet our expectations, resentments follow...then sex tanks...then marriage become a living hell...


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I have a funny story: seeing a man and after our tryst he started falling asleep. I slinked out of bed and started putting my clothes on. "Where are you going, Jelly?" Me: I'm going home." Him: "But, why?" Me" Because I miss my bed." He started pouting, "Staaay.... "You are a very strange woman."
> 
> Indeed.


Were you my gf 23 years ago?

Before my wife, I dated a woman who did just that. " after our "tryst". She always got out of bed to leave...On one hand, I wanted her to stay all night, but she never did... On thevother hand, i didnt have to make breakfast for her in the morning...I never spent a penny on her taking her out for dinner, never bought her gifts...

It was the best relationship I ever had...

I miss you Jelly.lol


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Yep. Because the fact is that a lot of marriages end in divorce. That's why the whole permanency/forever thing seems like a crock to me.





happy as a clam said:


> Me too. With the advent of "No-fault" states, it hardly seems worth it anymore. (Admittedly, I am jaded)


Hey now... Let's not tarnish the Crock Pot's well-deserved reputation for hardiness and reliability w/ all this...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Legalaff said:


> I am happy that part *(snoring)* is over.


Sorry for the threadjack, but it's funny you all bring this up. I have NEVER been able to sleep in my ENTIRE LIFE with someone snoring. Ex-husband was quiet as a mouse so that's one thing that worked out nicely.

My SO snores every night, and it doesn't bother me in the least!! I simply can't explain it, except maybe that love blinds us to many thing (or makes us deaf :rofl

I used to be one of those people who had to use earplugs, fans, cover my head with pillows, and eventually end up on the couch if someone was sawing logs. Now, I fall asleep easily whether he is snoring or not, and I never wake up either.

I actually am reassured by his snoring, knowing he's right there...


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> Sorry for the threadjack, but it's funny you all bring this up. I have NEVER been able to sleep in my ENTIRE LIFE with someone snoring. Ex-husband was quiet as a mouse so that's one thing that worked out nicely.
> 
> My SO snores every night, and it doesn't bother me in the least!! I simply can't explain it, except maybe that love blinds us to many thing (or makes us deaf :rofl
> 
> ...


Believe it or not... My wife snores...don't know if she always did... I just seem to notice it now...I usually go to our spare room to sleep...

Most nights my wife stays with our 10 year old until she falls asleep. Wife falls asleep before our daughter... Many times our daughter wakes up my wife because our daughter can't go to sleep with mom snoring next to her...I think its funny... 

So when our daughter realizes in sleep in the spare bedroom/ playroom/guest room... I just say mom was snoring again...


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

*Re: Re: Marriage vs. Dating Exclusively*



happy as a clam said:


> I just will never entangle myself legally again. That probably sounds jaded, but it's true.


I can totally relate. If I had a choice, I'd like a ltr, each with our own places. I have no desire to mingle assets again. I don't even think I want to live with anyone again. I had my share of picking up dirty socks and cleaning beard out of the sink.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

DaytoDay said:


> Perhaps a poll?
> 
> Disregarding religious issues, tax benefits, children, etc. but just focusing strictly on a relationship perspective, what is the advantage to marriage over an EXCLUSIVE DATING situation?
> 
> ...


I would prefer dating exclusively indefinitely. I do not want to ever get married again.


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## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Well I have always seen legal marriage as a contract of sorts. My Ex and I went to the court house three days before our church wedding and got legally married. We shook hands in front of the judge and he looked at us like we were nuts! But the whole court house marriage thing was very fitting for a handshake. The church thing, with all our friends, family and such there to support, that was the real commitment. Divorce is the exact opposite with friends and family taking sides and each going it alone.

Anyway...we kept the legal separate from the marriage and only did the legal thing because it provided some benefits. If one of us were in a serious accident we would not have been able to make medical decisions for the other without legal marriage. We wanted our last names changed and that was easier that way (my name is staying the same as it was during the marriage because of my public persona and the confusion a name change adds to a career). Tax breaks were not an issue for us, but I think they are there. It was really the medical thing that got to us. I did research on how to get all that taken care of without the legal marriage, but it was a big pain and we decided to go the legal route. 

I'm an anarchist so I see the state's marriage stuff as unnecessarily intrusive and bogus anyhow. But there is something to a public commitment to one another in front of friends and family who ideally will help keep the couple accountable to those vows over time. My friends supported me during the separation and hoped we'd get back together, and would have been very disappointed in me had I been sleeping around and doing all sorts of stuff to just throw away those vows. They kept me in check in some ways during the process. Anyway, there is a way to be "married" but not legally and I personally think public commitments to each other are important over the long-haul. But I like ritual and think rituals are important in life.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Trickster said:


> Were you my gf 23 years ago?
> 
> Before my wife, I dated a woman who did just that. " after our "tryst". She always got out of bed to leave...On one hand, I wanted her to stay all night, but she never did... On thevother hand, i didnt have to make breakfast for her in the morning...I never spent a penny on her taking her out for dinner, never bought her gifts...
> 
> ...


I miss you, too.


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