# Girlfriend wants a proposal this weekend - please help



## magnus (Feb 13, 2013)

Dear forum, thank you for reading my post. I am deeply conflicted at this important turn in life and would value your wisdom. I apologize for the length. If I have lost everyone by the end, I have at least laid out my feelings to help clarify my own thinking.

I am 30 and she is 31. We've been together for 7 years, though we have never lived together. In the first 5 we lived nearby with roommates or parents (frequent visits), and in the last two we've lived long distance but spent 2wks/2mos in one anothers' cities (50% time total). Understandably, she wants to know where things are headed. There is some added urgency with our next career stage about to relocate us fairly permanently, and now is the time to make job sacrifices or spousal accommodations. We've had two discussions about this, the latest with her in tears explaining she would leave me if I could not commit to her in short order. Now we are heading to a remote cottage for a valentine's + anniversary weekend. We have already had a happy week together, but I am certain this is the make or break weekend. I have an engagement ring in my bag.

We have a lovely relationship: we trust one another deeply, are loyal to one another and are best friends. We almost never fight, we have fun together and laugh a lot when talking, we have many sweet habits together, and we have a similar level of intellect, which I have found hard to find in my mates. She is attractive to me, if in a somewhat androgynous kind of way. She strokes my hair gently, and is patient with me when she wakes me each morning. She has a generally happy character, which is a great match to my own buoyant personality. We share the same general values, hopes for children, retirement dreams and love of nature. I know that if I commit to her, I will remain committed.

But... we never had a passionate "love" phase. She is pragmatic and lives by her habits, I am an idealist and a romantic. She is strong-minded and a feminist, I am content approaching our relationship as equals but have been happier with a slightly more dominant role in past relationships. I sometimes long for more feminine qualities, like a flowing dress and perfume, but she always wears jeans and shuns accessories. When we gaze out at the sky together, I want to share my sense of wonder, but she is getting cold and it's time for bed. While attractive, she has specific faults that distract me in conversation and, shamefully, make me wonder how they might appear in my future children. One of her siblings has mental illness, which also makes me worry about my children. I occasionally have somewhat intense crushes on others and fantasize about what life would be like with a friend of mine.

We are both very career-focused and I for one have been content to let things carry on as they are. I feel like whether I propose or not, life will be OK. If we married, we would be practical, committed partners in life, would produce children quickly (to the delight of my aging and wonderful parents) and would raise them with affection and care. If we did not marry, we are still young enough and I am sure would both find someone else.

But the dialemma: I can't figure out whether I am not in "love", and whether it matters given that we would be effective partners. I also can't decide whether I could live without her: I really don't think about her much when we're apart for weeks at a time. On marriage, my feelings vacillate wildly from "I'm comfortable with this" to "it's time to move on" depending on whether or not we have been together lately. I actually found the strength to propose last year, with the plan of doing so right after a beautiful sunset in a special place... but the moment the sun set she insisted on leaving, which got under my skin because I hate it when she is bossy and can't we just let this special moment last. I got cold feet and her I am today. Further confusing things further are fear and guilt: fear of losing my best friend with whom I have spent so many years, and guilt that I am thinking of betraying her, our happy relationship, and the years we have invested in it.

I can't even figure out how to talk to her about any of this. I fear if I mentioned my concerns, I would only be hurting her. I care so much for her and the thought of breaking her heart hurts me so much.

Are there any obvious answers in what I have written? Please help me decode my thoughts.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Seems really obvious to me. You have so many doubts that you are unwilling to commit. 

Sometimes you just have to accept the bad with the good. Make the jump and commit yourself to LOVING those distracting things that don't hurt you in any way, or set her free to someone who values her enough to put that ring on her finger without all the doubt. 

Either you are able to cope with her flaws or you aren't. I didn't see you mention how much her pragmatism vs. your idealism affects you, but this is the only REAL concern I think you have. Will she prove to be a wet blanket in your life or will you balance each other out?


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## Mrs.Webster (Jan 9, 2013)

You seem to truely love her, but if your still not ready to fully commit and she is, i would deffinately talk to her. Or even have her read this. My opinion a guy willing to pour his feelings and concerns on a site where anyone can read it, deserves to be heard out on his feelings. But dont always let the faults stand in the way. My husband and i have our fair share, but that is who makes us 'us'. And even if they are annoying, i wouldnt trade them for the world. If she is truely your best friend, she will understand your concerns. And if you 2 dont get married, it will be hard after such a long period of time, but try to stay friends. I wish you luck with whatever your choice is in the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Do it when you're comfortable doing it. Never do it based on an ultimatum. Most times, you become resentful that you got forced into doing something you didn't want to do.

Not a good way to start a marriage.

BTW, tell her the concerns you have, maybe the 2 of you can work them out and put your mind at ease to make the next big leap with her.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I would share your ideas about what you want from a relationship.

Also you both need to make an effort to have a passionate relationship. I think it's vital to a healthy marriage.

it isn't good that you don't think about her much when you are not together, for weeks at a time.

It's also bad that you allow yourself to have crushes on others, particularly a close friend. If you are committed it's best to stay committed in your mind.

You will both have faults, but if you can compromise and work out a relationship that suits you both, than that's important.

Please do not propose untill you sort out your relationship. Learn how to connect sexually and work out if you both an get what you need from the relationship.

Do this very soon, and if not move on and marry other people.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

You obviously have love for her but I see some red flags that may indicate she is not "the one." One is being so conflicted after 7 years together. You're very focused on what she is missing instead of being overwhelmed with all that she is. Your being attracted to her in "an androgynous kind of way," the frequent crushes you've had.Not missing her or even really thinking about her when she hasn't been around. I think you should feel in love when you propose marriage and I dont sense that you are even though she is very special to you. Marrying her mainly because you think she is a good match (which is very important) may leave you with a lingering feeling like something is missing, maybe that you settled in some way. You seem to already have the feeling something is missing, dont ignore it, its there for a reason. I would think you would be excited and looking forward to your life together and not merely "comfortable" with it. It seems to be more of a practical decision or alliance than a true want or desire. Really think about this. I hope whatever decision you make is the right one for you.


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

magnus said:


> I am 30 and she is 31. We've been together for 7 years, though we have never lived together.


NEVER get married until you have lived with them first. When people live apart, they can hide their craziness. My brother's ex seemed perfectly sane until they lived together. It quickly became apparent that she was a nut. She had every sign of borderline personality disorder, but she could hide it for the years they didn't live together.


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## animal 2011 (Aug 9, 2011)

I read your post carefully. I have not yet read any of the replies. Here is my objective analysis: You should propose to her this weekend and enjoy the rest of your life with her. You described a normal, healthy relationship with a great woman. Your expectations are a little too high. You are not going to have that passionate, in love feeling past the first few months and it is healthy that you don't need to with her while you are apart. This is all normal, including her faults and your doubts. I would suggest you talk to her about your need to sit longer with sunsets and for her to wear a skirt or dress for you once in a while. The grass is not greener, you have a nice relationship that will stand the test of time. Relax and enjoy it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zing (Nov 15, 2012)

Its obvious... You love her to bits, but are not totally 'in love' with her... otherwise we wouldn't even be having this discussion...

You both share a great level of comfort and she might be the one person with whom you could be your true self. In fact you may find yourself more comfortable with her than with anyone you might ever find, but and a big but, she possibly fails to ignite that heady feeling in you...you both are best mates, but possibly not best lovers... and you wonder how it would be if someone else came along and did that to you...i.e. ignited your spark...you wonder if you are missing out on the potential to find sexual spark..chemistry...passion...

What I would advice is to read a thread started by enchanted...can you create chemistry in marriage...
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/67226-can-you-create-sexual-chemistry.html
you might find some answers there...
As for going ahead with it, I'd say dont do it till you are sure...if not you'll resent her for it even though its not really her fault for wanting to give this relationship the 'marriage' tag...


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

My opinion is that if you have issues with passion or intimacy now when you aren't married and she WANTS you to marry her, this wont get better one you marry

Think long and hard about this my friend
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flowers (Feb 5, 2013)

If you are not contented with passion and intimacy you will always have a roving eye after marriage. Think about it and do what is right.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'd agree with the last two posters, as someone who married a woman he was "comfortable" with. You have a long time ahead if you to wonder "what if"...

FWIW, after separating from my wife, I've been seeing someone for almost two years now. And it feels like "movie plot" love. Like when I see her for the first time that day, I still get a big goofy grin on my face that only she gets to see. I'll drop a lot of stuff just to make time to be with her. And my mind keeps turning back to her throughout the day. We're the first person each other talks to in the morning, and the last person at night. It's like nothing I could every have dreamed of.

C


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Have you researched how the legal system is going to affect you? If not, you need to do that now. By getting married you're inviting the state into your relationship. This isn't necessarily a good thing for you. 

Marriage changes the balance of power in a relationship. You already say you prefer to have some dominance in the relationship. That's natural and maintains her attraction to you. 

However, be advised that once you marry, she will have ALL the legal and financial power granted to her by the state. If she ever decides to leave you, then you pay. If you ever decide to leave, then you pay. It's a heads I win, tails you lose scenario. 

Tell her she gets the diamond ring if she signs a pre-nup.

You need legal protection in this day and age because there are dozens of laws on the books which stack the deck against men. No fault divorce, VAWA, equitable distribution statutes, the Bradley amendment just to name a few.

Do your research and ignore this advice at your own peril.


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## magnus (Feb 13, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies and very varied perspectives. One thing that seems clear is that I shouldn't be making this decision under pressure this weekend, having not come to a clear resolution. I also feel like I should really be talking with her about everything I have talked about here, but I don't know what I could hope to accomplish: other than asking her to wear a dress for me, it would not be fair or reasonably to expect her to change who she is for me, e.g., with respect to her pragmatism.

What is less clear to me is the importance of passion and whether that "what if" feeling is going to be a problem in life. I read about these head-over-heels marriages, like PBear's, and I know mine would not be like that. I have a world of respect for her, but she doesn't make my eyes dilate. On the passion front, the sex is OK. It is a pleasant regularly scheduled activity on Saturdays when we don't have to rush off to work. If I initiated more often we would probably go at each other more frequently, but she says I need to do that in mornings when I'm usually not alert, and in practice even that doesn't seem to work out.

ShawnD, In our last conversation I suggested that we first try living together full-time, but she was not open to this at this late stage after all these years and I think this is fair. Having spent weeks at a time, many times with her, I am confident cohabitation would be fine. Also, Viseral, she and I agree that pre-nups are a good idea.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

magnus said:


> in the last two we've lived long distance but spent 2wks/2mos in one anothers' cities (50% time total).
> 
> I really don't think about her much when we're apart for weeks at a time.


This to me doesn't sound like a man in love.

My husband and I have been married for 21 years and we can't stand to be away from each other even for a night. Like Pbear we have that movie plot kinda love and honestly I wouldn't have it any other way. I want that intensity and passion. No settling for 'comfortable' for me. I want it ALL.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

From experience. Do not marry this person!!!! you will live to regret it, and resent her. You are both not in the right place to get married.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> This to me doesn't sound like a man in love.
> 
> My husband and I have been married for 21 years and we can't stand to be away from each other even for a night. Like Pbear we have that movie plot kinda love and honestly I wouldn't have it any other way. I want that intensity and passion. No settling for 'comfortable' for me. I want it ALL.


Ditto! and we've only been married 10 years. One day apart is like torture.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

magnus said:


> Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies and very varied perspectives. One thing that seems clear is that I shouldn't be making this decision under pressure this weekend, having not come to a clear resolution. I also feel like I should really be talking with her about everything I have talked about here, but I don't know what I could hope to accomplish: other than asking her to wear a dress for me, it would not be fair or reasonably to expect her to change who she is for me, e.g., with respect to her pragmatism.
> 
> What is less clear to me is the importance of passion and whether that "what if" feeling is going to be a problem in life. I read about these head-over-heels marriages, like PBear's, and I know mine would not be like that. I have a world of respect for her, but she doesn't make my eyes dilate. On the passion front, the sex is OK. It is a pleasant regularly scheduled activity on Saturdays when we don't have to rush off to work. If I initiated more often we would probably go at each other more frequently, but she says I need to do that in mornings when I'm usually not alert, and in practice even that doesn't seem to work out.
> 
> ShawnD, In our last conversation I suggested that we first try living together full-time, but she was not open to this at this late stage after all these years and I think this is fair. Having spent weeks at a time, many times with her, I am confident cohabitation would be fine. Also, Viseral, she and I agree that pre-nups are a good idea.


BTW, my marriage was like your relationship with your GF. It's my current relationship that's "head over heels"... Just to clarify!  

And I wouldn't settle for anything less, now that I know the difference!

C


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## pipedreamer (Feb 6, 2013)

I wish you the best. Choosing who your partner will be for the rest of your life is a huge decision. I agree that it's not good to make decisions like this under pressure. I am going through some issues right personally and with my marriage, but I can tell you that there is no woman I find more attractive than my wife or no one I'd rather be with. I also cannot imagine not seeing her weeks at a time and not thinking about her. I have a hard time not thinking of her during each day when I go to work and wondering how she is doing. The physical attraction thing is very important for me. I do believe it's better to feel pain in the short-term in order to have a better long-term. Before, I met my wife, I was in a relationship what lasted seven years. It wasn't a healthy one; the woman I was with was a permanent fiance. I keep hoping, and praying and trying to make things better. I didn't have the courage to end it early on which just prolonged things and made the eventual breakup worse. Marriage has enough challenges in itself. I don't think anyone goes into a marriage think it will end in divorce. Don't let friendship, guilt, stand in your way. If you truly care for her, either marry her or let her go.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

you wouldnt be doing anyone any favors to propose to her while you have these feelings. Sounds like time for a real talk with her and to decide whether or not this is what you both want. It may be time to make a decision to 'sh*t or get off the pot'. She is 31, she may be having maternal urges. If you dont ever plan to marry her, and it sounds like you shouldnt, then let her go while she is still young enough to find someone else and become a mother.

Also, if you have so much respect for her allow her to marry a man that is hot for her. Its not fair to her to have a H who is , at best, passively interested in her. Out of sight, out of mind is not the thought process of a man in love. 

Its ok that youre not. Whats not ok is to drag it out past HER prime.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

It sounds like you have too many doubts to move forward with a proposal. If it was truly right, you would have no question in your mind that she is the one for you. (Yes, you may be anxious or kind of scared, but that would be normal, as marriage is a HUGE step) But you seem to have too many questions for it to be the right thing for you right now. I wish you luck with your decision.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

7 years. Long time. You havent lived together, so you haven't REALLY tested the relationship yet. You havent.

But at 7 years you are also at the point to having to fish or cut bait.

Dude - be careful here. You sound a little bit like I was and you may not realize what you have. There are so many crazy, mismatched people out there. I sort of wish that you had lived together for a time, but that didnt happen. You need to seriously consider what letting her go means to you. If its a shrug of the shoulders, then perhaps you are right - but 7 years is nothing to sniff at - you have something going on.

Nobody can tell you what to do obviously - but I tell you - well matched people do not just come around every day.

_...We have a lovely relationship: *we trust one another deeply*, are *loyal to one another and are best friends*. We almost never fight, we have fun together and *laugh a lot when talking*, we have many sweet habits together, and we have a *similar level of intellect, which I have found hard to find in my mates.* She is attractive to me, if in a somewhat androgynous kind of way. *She strokes my hair gently, and is patient with me when she wakes me each morning*. *She has a generally happy character*, which is a great match to my own buoyant personality. *We share the same general values, hopes for children, retirement dreams and love of nature.* I know that if I commit to her, I will remain committed..._

Are you kidding? Besides your frightful apathy, I'd say you are crazy to let this fish go.

Keep in mind - many (many) on this board have made their mistakes and have valuable input to consider but to me often come off as pure fear. I think your description of your relationship is unusually complete and perceptive - and the good things I see are bellweathers of a solid relationship. I see some challenges too - but to me.. the good far outweighs the bad from what you say. You are better matched than 1/2 the people on this forum.

OR. Wait for someone 'perfect'. Spoiler alert - it doesnt exist. All relationships will eventually require some risk - the question is - are you both up to it?

Good luck.


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## kiss (Dec 12, 2012)

For me the most telling part was that you dont think about her that much when you are apart ... thats a real red flag right there.

This could work but I suspect it wouldnt last. Problems and doubts build over years and you deal with them best with a foundation of years together ... if you have them before you have even started thats a lot to overcome.

Suggest moving in together and seeing where that leads ... if she says no then I think thats your sign its time to move on. Relationships are not static, they evolve ... the fact you have both been in separate states in this relationship for so long is indicative that its gone as far as it will go.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Never get married on an ultimatum.It rarely works out.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Magnus,

You have come to a good place to talk about this. Getting married is a lifetime decision and should be made with everything laid out in front of you. I too had thoughts that caused me to question my relationship with my W before I proposed to her. We have a great marriage right now, but it wasn't always this way. 

You clearly love her, have a lot in common and are compatible in many ways. It sounds like you could see yourself with her for life, but some things about the relationship are not "working" for you.

If you think that she is going to leave you if you don't propose tomorrow and you are not prepared for this then propose to her...it doesn't sound like you are at the point where you want to let her go for good. But, DO NOT MARRY HER UNTIL YOU DEAL WITH THESE OTHER ISSUES! Once you propose, the long distance relationship that you guys have been doing, needs to stop immediately! You need to be together 100% of the time. I would also recommend that you live together if this is permitted. Take your time during the engagement period. This time is going to be your time to figure out if you two are truly compatible and can have a happy marriage that will last. 

I would strongly suggest counseling for both you personally and both of you as a couple. A couple sessions of counseling first for you personally so you can figure out specifically what is holding you back in this relationship and to figure out what is working in the relationship and what isn't. You need to be brutally honest with your counselor and you need to do this quickly. Then get into couples pre-marital counseling for the both of you. Take your list with you if it isn't the same counselor. I am not talking about just an hour with your local pastor, priest or imam. Several sessions over several weeks. Take it very seriously and make sure your fiance does as well! What you have seen in some of the previous responses should raise a red flag for you. Conflicts in a marriage over control, chemistry, attraction and sexual intimacy will destroy a marriage and leave you and her extremely unhappy. You need to discuss these issues openly and honestly with your new fiance. I am not talking about the fantasies you have with your flamboyant friend, but the things that are making you fantasize about her. Do not attempt a relationship with this friend, that is a bell you can never unring. Having a 3rd party counselor there to help move the discussion along and help you negotiate and talk about deal-breakers is very important. If you don't lay this all out on the table beforehand you and her will begin to develop resentment that can poison the marriage later on. You also need to be prepared, as difficult as it may be, to walk away from your fiance and end the engagement.

Women, for the most part, will want to please you, want to be attractive to you, want to do fun things with you and will work to make you happy; as long as those things do not feel unnatural, go against their morals or make them feel like something less than a real woman or partner. If she agrees to make the changes that you guys talk about in counseling, you need to sit back and watch. Be observant and take a look to make sure that she is having fun with it and that it comes naturally to her over time. If you see that she is having problems before the marriage handling these changes, then she is definitely going to have problems with it during the marriage. You don't want to get into a situation where she is pulling a bait and switch on you to get you to marry her. It needs to be real and it needs to be something she is committed to. Why? Because when you have children (and you said that you have discussed having them early), it will have a huge (and probably somewhat negative) impact on your relationship with your W. Keeping the marriage healthy and strong during pregnancy and during the years after when you have small children is going to be a real challenge. Without a W that is committed 100% to you in the ways that you talked about early on, you will struggle and be unhappy. What I am saying is that the marriage needs to be strong going in. You don't want to have 2 or 3 kids and then start having problems with your marriage. That isn't good for anyone...you, your W, or your kids.

A prenup is also a really good idea if there is a big disparity between your net worth and hers.

I hope this helps.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

magnus said:


> I really don't think about her much when we're apart for weeks at a time.


For this alone I would advise you to move on. As a wife I would be crushed to hear this. 

You sound like great friends, but she does not fulfill your needs. 
Please read "His Needs, Her Needs" by Dr Harley. Take the questionaires together this weekend, then I think you need to have an honest discussion with her. 

You could have a marriage of convenience, yes with love and sex. But you will always wonder what you have missed out on. There is a reason why you have not moved the relationship along in 7 years. Trust your instincts.


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## ShawnD (Apr 2, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> Are you kidding? Besides your frightful apathy, I'd say you are crazy to let this fish go.


Her being a happy person is probably the #1 important thing. The world is filled with unhappy people, and every single one of them is completely insane. "I don't feel happy in this marriage. I need a change!" and they walk away from a perfectly good marriage. I've lost good friends because of this kind of crap. I've seen women ditch ALL of their friends and completely start over just because they were unhappy and needed to change something. 
I don't know what unhappy men do, but I would assume it's equally retarded.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I suggest the OP to not marry this woman. Dont settle for good enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

kiss said:


> For me the most telling part was that you dont think about her that much when you are apart ... thats a real red flag right there.


:iagree:

I think it's important to be crazy about the person you are about to marry. You really want to be excited to see your souse and be with them. I am a newlywed myself and there was never a day that went by that I didn't think my of husband, now and before we got married. I know he was/is crazy about me to, as I would see a huge grin appear across his face as soon as he saw me. It's never a good idea to just settle, in my opinion. 

If you are not crazy about her and super excited to get married, don't do it.


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## magnus (Feb 13, 2013)

There is a lot of wisdom and advice here that has really helped me wrestle with the situation. I appreciate your warnings, and also thank you for reminding me that she is a special catch. Tron and anotherguy, I found what you had to say especially helpful. I like Tron's structured approach to the problem in particular. It gives me optimism that we might work around what really are just a few missing pieces; but it also allows for the possibility that we won't be able to do that. Either way, we will have given it the chance it deserves.

But one thing I think I will need to resolve for myself, one way or another, is the idea, backed by many here, that marriage should always be supported by excitement and thrall. Perhaps she and I can discover this if we work through our issues together, maybe with a little help from couples counseling. But comments like anotherguy's remind me that you can't be sure of finding head-over-heels love even if you dedicate yourself to it - or if you should be lucky enough to find it, you can't be sure that it will last like PBear or Mavash's.

To respond to the comment many have flagged that I don't think of her when we're apart: we do often write, and she is the person I want to send a quick email about an interesting news story I read or gossip from work. I do feel like something is missing if I don't hear from her in a day. I do also look forward to our Skype chats of an hour or two at the end of the week to catch up on news.

Also, I realized today that just as I might wonder what life would be like with another woman, I would also wonder what life would have been like with my current girlfriend, as there will always be paths not taken. One way or another, "what if" will be a fact of life.

Finally, I think one of the things holding me back is my position on the hypothetical problem that, things being the way they are today, if the next big step in my career required it, I am fairly certain I would leave her. But that hypothetical may be more about my current priorities, our current difficulties, or the combination of the two, being less about our relationship and more about a way to tip the scales on a difficult decision.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

magnus said:


> Finally, I think one of the things holding me back is my position on the hypothetical problem that, things being the way they are today, if the next big step in my career required it, I am fairly certain I would leave her.


This is a tough one Magnus. I think posters have made great arguments on both sides. You have a great relationship. You don't know if you could ever find one that's better with another woman but there's a part of you that feels like you're settling and that sucks. I've been wondering the same thing lately. Should I be grateful for what I have, or should I risk it and hold out for something better? I don't know the answer to that.

However, I read your quote this morning and thought that this definitely means you are not ready to marry this woman because she doesn't mean enough to you. A spouse has to mean more to you than your job.

It seems like what you'd really like to do, if she weren't giving you an ultimatum, is to keep things as they are. The problem is that she wants something more than what you have now. I wonder if it may also be true that you might be inclined to limit your career and get married IF SHE WERE A DIFFERENT WOMAN. 

Is there any part of you that is holding out for another woman? Do you like things the way they are now because you still have a way out if the right one comes along?


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

After 7 years, it is time to fish or cut bait. It sounds like she is ready to take that option away from you and I don't blame her.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I have a friend your age that was in a 7 yr. relationship. Things were going along just fine & he was "content" with her but he was conflicted about marrying her even though she was pushing for it........

until the day he fell head over heels for a co-worker, left his g/f & married the co-worker within one year.

I'm in the camp of letting her go & wait for true love.


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## SecretTears (Jul 18, 2010)

magnus said:


> I have a world of respect for her, but *she doesn't make my eyes dilate*. On the passion front, the sex is OK. It is a *pleasant regularly scheduled activity on Saturdays *when we don't have to rush off to work.


Ask yourself honestly, does that make you happy? Are you prepared to spend the REST OF YOUR LIFE like that? (hint for me, the answers to both questions are ABSOLUTELY NOT!)

Also I think it is a sign that after 7 years you are still not ready to commit. 

Be fair to her and let her go.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

:iagree:

Comfortable, content and relatively pleased are not the feelings to prompt a marriage, because comfortable morphs into boring. Content turns into lazy disengagement and relatively pleased is of course relative to everything else being just fine.

Listen to your gut. It's telling you this is not the right relationship to take to the next step.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

magnus said:


> Finally, I think one of the things holding me back is my position on the hypothetical problem that, things being the way they are today, if the next big step in my career required it, I am fairly certain I would leave her.


This basically says it right here. You would choose your job over her, which means you really should not marry her. Your wife should be your #1 and she won't be. That's not healthy and unfair to her. 

It's been 7 years and you are still not ready to commit. You are comfortable, but not excited or happy about being with her. It's time to let her go and move on.


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## Malcolm38 (Dec 25, 2012)

If she is practical, intelligent and trustworthy and you have a fair amount of attraction to her physically, you should think twice before ever leaving her. 

Lots of people push for the Disney movie gushy love stuff, where you both complete each other's sentences, make love 6 times a day and are at "one with nature", or whatever. But that can be rare to find.

I was with a really decent woman a number of years ago when I was in College. She was an extremely good woman. I felt bored with her and left her, soon taking up with a very exciting and fiery woman I fell madly in love with. 

A number of years later the "love of my life" is getting passed around by half of the work staff at her office and I remember than practical introverted girl I blew off. Who knows, maybe she's a lady of the night by now, but I doubt it. The one thing she had was a practicality. I blew it. Just beware of looking "for better".


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

So Magnus...what happened? Did you propose or not?


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## magnus (Feb 13, 2013)

I did not propose to her that weekend.

We had a fun weekend of snowshoe hikes and snowy scenery. We also had a relaxing time in own little cabin and snuggled in the morning to warm up. At one moment I turned to her and told her that I loved her, that I admired her kindness and gentle nature and adventurous spirit. We then carried on with our hike.

I had a ring with me, but it remained in my coat pocket. The feeling was not right.

I noticed more things on the weekend. We are a good complement to one another's strengths: she is an rigid but excellent planner, and I am a last-minute but creative problem-solver. We have enjoyable conversations, but she refuses to talk to me about some topics I am passionate about. Also, whereas I have often wanted sex in new spontaneous, and romantic places, like in front of the fire, she feels she can only have sex in the bedroom.

After the weekend, she brought up marriage again and I was able to talk to her more openly about it, having thought about it and absorbed some of the discussion from this website. I told her I had once tried to propose, but when the scenario played out wrong I got cold feet. I told her the positive things I see in our relationship. I told her about how I was concerned about what it meant that I would put my career first, and she understood, and was not disturbed by it. I did not delve into my laundry list of issues.

Based on advice here, I had by that time decided to seek counseling, and I also told her that. She was surprisingly happy to hear this and it has given me time, as well as a little guidance.

I have seen a therapist once at this point, who encouraged me to pursue mindfulness meditation, picturing marriage with my partner. Initially when I did this, I could only picture the opposite, and I was flooded with fantasies about how things would be if I left her: opening a new chapter in my life, getting back into weight training and motorcycle riding, the conversation I would have with the distantly-located female friend I mentioned earlier. It felt like an epiphany and the excitement sent me into a manic enough state that I could not sleep until 6:30am that night (this never happens to me).

The next evening, I continued this line of thinking and logged onto dating websites, which were effective at reminding me of what a shallow, soulless, hopeless morass the dating world can be, and how difficult it is to find the peculiar kind of woman I am looking for and who is interested in me. I feel I am highly eligible, but what man doesn't feel that way.

After cooling my enthusiasm some, I began browsing our pictures from our various trips and adventures together, and positive emotions began flowing again. It was suddenly much easier to think of happy family life with her, moments from our future life, raising our children, sharing our common dreams and ambitions.

I am seeing the therapist again tomorrow. The therapist said in our first interaction that it sounded like I might not be "ready" for marriage. I feel like I might be if I knew it was the right woman, but maybe I need time apart from her to know if she is the right woman. I feel like my girlfriend might understand that path if I took it, or some variation of it, though I am held back by fear of the kind of outcome Malcolm described, whereby she would meet someone new and I would live out my days in sorrow that I passed up such a fine mate.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

magnus said:


> I was flooded with fantasies about how things would be if I left her: opening a new chapter in my life, getting back into weight training and motorcycle riding, the conversation I would have with the distantly-located female friend I mentioned earlier. It felt like an epiphany and the excitement sent me into a manic enough state that I could not sleep until 6:30am that night (this never happens to me).


I've heard plenty of negatives, but this caps off the certainty for me that you are not in love with this woman.

And boy howdy, if you think she is bossy now - just wait until you're married. Sex on Saturdays? Kiss that goodbye too. I can see big time sexual frustration for you in the future.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Often the things that attract us in the beginning repel you later on.

The compliment of your approch to planning will be a source of frustration to the both of you later on, I promise!

But this is how relationships go, the question is will you have the love, commitment, and communication on both sides to work through these in a respectful and considerate way.

The big question for the both of you is, will you value the relationship enough to protect it at any cost, is the maturity there to recognze this and stay committed to it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

magnus said:


> I had a ring with me, but it remained in my coat pocket. The feeling was not right. *Good Call*
> 
> I noticed more things on the weekend. We are a good complement to one another's strengths: she is an rigid but excellent planner,*If I may, life as a married couple will throw a ton of monkey wrenches into your plans all the time. If you're even THINKING about kids down the line, this rigid planner will flounder and probably take you under with her. Think about it! In the real word, how many jobs have you seen that say "Must be rigid and unflexible" There'a a reason for that!* and I am a last-minute but creative problem-solver.
> 
> ...


*A "Fine Mate" who has kept you from pursuing some of the things that you love to do like riding your motorcycling? A "Fine Mate" who does not enjoy the sexual adventurism that you crave and won't participate in it? A "Fine Mate" who has you doubting yourself so much that you've decided to seek counseling? A "Fine Mate" who believes that all the problems within the relationship center on you? PLEASE!

I'm not sure how but she got you to drink the Kool Aid. Look, you've received a ton of advice here from people who've made the same or similar mistake you almost did. Ask ANY of them if they had the chance to do it again, would they or would they demand some type of change from their mate BEFORE getting married? I'm willing to bet 99% would say that they'd change things first or walk away. If you don't, you'll find yourself back here in 15 years giving this same type of advice to someone else!

Good luck!*


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## magnus (Feb 13, 2013)

I just went to see my therapist today for our second session. I pointed out my "epiphany" for her, which I experienced again last night, keeping me up until 4:30 in the morning. By the end of our conversation I felt I had come to a resolution. Your comments also helped me do this -- thank you.

I won't be proposing to her.

I feel companionate love for her, and she is my best friend. But as some of you and my therapist have pointed out, it is not wise to go into a marriage that I am not excited about. I don't think it is just that we have been together for a long time and the early infatuation has faded. For various reasons, which some people here have picked up on, she is not the person I have always pictured as my ideal mate. Maybe my hopes are unrealistic and I am a fool to leave behind all that we have together - but I have been with her all of my adult life - 24 to 30 - and cannot accept this to be true until I am able to draw upon experiences with other adult relationships. But I think leaving the future open will be important to both of us in moving past this.

Maybe I will come back to her with excitement about marriage after realizing that I was wrong to idealize what is possible in a relationship, or maybe I will find "true love", or maybe she will be taken by the time I come back to her. But any of these outcomes seems better than going into a marriage without excitement and with reservations.

I get the impression there is really quite a bimodal distribution of marriages on this forum - people seem to be either excited or quite unhappy with their marriages. Without going into it excited, I fear the risk of transitioning to the latter type is too high.

So I have made up my mind, and there is now the sad task of putting my newly resolved feelings into action.

She has a flight to see me coming in on Saturday, and her flight out leaves two weeks later. She has a nearby close friend she can stay with in the quite likely case that she needs to be distant from me after hearing this news. I would also offer to buy her an early plane ticket home if she needed that.

I am picturing us having this conversation in bed one morning or evening, which is a safe place that we have had marriage conversations before. It will be hard, but I can't spring this on her right away, as there is, uncomfortably enough, important celebrating to do - she landed a professor job at a NYC-area university, and I feel that making it through grad school to make it to this goal has defined our journey together, and that it is crucial for us to celebrate this achivement. We recently agreed we would not have sex when either of us was anxious about what will happen with marriage, so as best friends, I feel we can and should recognize her achivement first.

I have alternately considered traveling to Ohio before her flight leaves, arriving at her door and telling her how I feel. That way, she would not feel potentially trapped in my area, and could deal with her feelings in comfortable surroundings. But showing up with an unhappy surprise on her doorstep is high drama and not how we operate. I also feel the drama would short-circuit any chance at the calm, safe context in which I feel the conversation has the best chance of sparing our long friendship. So for these reasons I have decided on bringing it up during her visit.

Anyway, sad and difficult times lay ahead, and I hope deeply we can hold together some of what close friendship we have built together, or at least remain respectful of our happy time together.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Let her go. You said multiple times that you wish she were different in every way, physically, emotionally and other ways. That is grossly unfair to her to string her along and go out to sow your oats while she waits on the back burner as Plan B. Cruel in fact. She deserves somebody who wants to be with her, not just settles because your dream woman never came around. She will be some other mans dream woman and deserves every bit of that.


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## empty3 (Mar 12, 2013)

Wow Magnus. Wishing you all the best for the next step.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

You made the right choice with regards to not getting married to her.

It's 2013; why do people still think they have to get married? Like 7 yrs is a lifetime or something....it's nothing....life is REALLY LONG, and feels a lot longer with the wrong person 12 yrs from now.

Number 1, NEVER marry someone you have not had sex with (doesn't apply for you)
Number 2, NEVER marry someone you have not lived with.
Number 3, NEVER marry on an ultimatum
Number 4, NEVER marry on a whim
Number 5, NEVER marry unless YOU want to get married

...or simply never marry at all. 

The marriage contract does not have the same meaning these days. Woman do not have the same roles these days. Men do not have the same outlook these days. The world has changed drastically, but the contract remains old, archaic, outdated and unfair.

Marriage is almost ridiculous these days. There is very little chance anyone's marriage will survive. It's a legal agreement that ends up screwing over so many people, and yet it's taken too lightly simply because of peoples "traditions".

If you were really ready to marry her, you would know it anyways. If she is going to end the relationship because you are not ready to marry her, then who needs her. That's her way of saying that you are only good enough to stay with if you do what she wants, right now.

If you guys have a decent relationship, just keep dating each other...who says you ever HAVE to get married. It's not a prerequisite for the rest of life.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> I have seen a therapist once at this point, who encouraged me to pursue mindfulness meditation, picturing marriage with my partner. Initially when I did this, I could only picture the opposite, and I was flooded with fantasies about how things would be if I left her: opening a new chapter in my life, getting back into weight training and motorcycle riding, the conversation I would have with the distantly-located female friend I mentioned earlier. It felt like an epiphany and the excitement sent me into a manic enough state that I could not sleep until 6:30am that night (this never happens to me).


Magnus, I think this tells you a lot about where you are regarding marriage right now. IMO, you're simply not ready yet, and marriage is something that should never be entered into if there are doubts.

I don't believe we should get married for fear of losing our partner if we don't. There's a lot more to lose, IMO, if we get married then realize it was a mistake.

IMO, you need to give yourself more time to decide what you really want.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I haven't read the replies, but after 7 years it is my opinion that things are glaringly obvious....

It's been a long courtship. You haven't lived together yet and now you're at a crossroads.

I won't tell you what's so obvious to me, but I will say this: no one is perfect. Not even you... So holding out to see if the grass is greener might be exactly what is holding you back... Good or bad. Don't give in to pressure, but take time to discover what is really important to you. 

Don't worry about hurting her. We all hurt after break-ups. It's better in the long run that you come to terms with what is important to you... If you even know what that is right now...

Wishing you both the best of luck!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I agree with Yin about the grass being greener thinking. If this is what's holding you back, it's best to explore that grass rather than wonder about it for the rest of your life. You may live to regret it if you do, but you may also live to regret if you don't. It's a risk either way.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

If your unsure by 7 years of dating, then it's best to let her go and move on. After a certain age there carries a risk of unhealthy babies. Don't let her have a false sense of hope that you'll marry her when your unsure. 

I for one refuse to live with a man unless we are married. This is my choice and my husband fully respected this. He had asked me to move in while we were engaged, but I declined. We lived very well together these past 13 years.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you should make a clean surgical break. That may seem cruel but it is best for her. I think you know the friendship thing is for you not her. You keep her as a back up and confidant while you explore. She deserves better than being treated like 2nd best. 

Be a man with a plan. Get out on your own and don't use her as a crutch under the guise of being her friend. Be her real friend and don't use her. Deal with your guilt and fear of tge unknown and leave ger out of it. Be honest and end contact with her. 

I think you are aware of what may happen. She is likely to wait for you to come to your senses and pick her. You are likely to fall in love and marry someone else after stringing her along for the few yrs it will take you to find someone else.

She gave you 7 yrs of her life. Don't be deceptive now about the friendship. It is a cover for keeping her as a backup while you explore. I think you know that you will not come back to her so let her go completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Whatever you do, don't have one final toss with her and break up after. That would be a douchenozzle move of epic proportions. If you're going to do it, be a man and do it right away. 

I'm also in favor of doing it in person, but if there's any chance that she can get a refund on her ticket you should tell her before she flies out.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Whatever you do, don't have one final toss with her and break up after. That would be a douchenozzle move of epic proportions. If you're going to do it, be a man and do it right away.
> 
> I'm also in favor of doing it in person, but if there's any chance that she can get a refund on her ticket you should tell her before she flies out.


He already said he plans to dump her while in bed. "I am picturing us having this conversation in bed one morning or evening, which is a safe place that we have had marriage conversations before".


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> He already said he plans to dump her while in bed. "I am picturing us having this conversation in bed one morning or evening, which is a safe place that we have had marriage conversations before".


Ya, that's a pretty crappy thing to do. Dump her while you're laying in bed together???


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## magnus (Feb 13, 2013)

@thereal, I think it is uncharitable to assume that there is gotcha goodbye sex is on the table, or that my goal is to have some sex with other women while cruelly stringing her along and maybe come back to her for some more sex down the road. For us and I suspect many other couples, bed is a secure-feeling place where we talk about our difficult issues. Please dial back your aggression, as it has been painful enough getting to this decision.

It may seem obvious to a dispassionate observer that she is not right for me, but that to me that is still not obvious. In spite of everything I have complained about in our relationship there are many positives I have not done justice here. I still feel a strong bond with her, and at the moment it is all I bear to even think of suspending the romantic part of our relationship. Maybe the idea of friendship is a crutch for now, but it is one I need, and one she may need as well. Also, I would like to be able to say definitively, "you are not the right wife for me", but that is the problem - I can't, because I do not know it to be true, and I feel that is what I need to discover by exploring other relationships as an adult. I know compromise to be part of marriage and I believe I have to discover for myself how much of it and where is reasonable to expect.

Thank you for the comments everyone, your opinions have helped me a great deal while exploring my feelings and it would have been difficult to come to a self-aware decision without you, rather than walking straight into marriage because it seems like the next logical thing to do.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

It's hard to find a good time to say it's over. 

But congratulations for doing the right thing. She needs the opportunity to find someone who is excited about marrying her.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

magnus said:


> @thereal, I think it is uncharitable to assume that there is gotcha goodbye sex is on the table, or that my goal is to have some sex with other women while cruelly stringing her along and maybe come back to her for some more sex down the road. For us and I suspect many other couples, bed is a secure-feeling place where we talk about our difficult issues. Please dial back your aggression, as it has been painful enough getting to this decision.
> 
> It may seem obvious to a dispassionate observer that she is not right for me, but that to me that is still not obvious. In spite of everything I have complained about in our relationship there are many positives I have not done justice here. I still feel a strong bond with her, and at the moment it is all I bear to even think of suspending the romantic part of our relationship. Maybe the idea of friendship is a crutch for now, but it is one I need, and one she may need as well. Also, I would like to be able to say definitively, "you are not the right wife for me", but that is the problem - I can't, because I do not know it to be true, and I feel that is what I need to discover by exploring other relationships as an adult. I know compromise to be part of marriage and I believe I have to discover for myself how much of it and where is reasonable to expect.
> 
> Thank you for the comments everyone, your opinions have helped me a great deal while exploring my feelings and it would have been difficult to come to a self-aware decision without you, rather than walking straight into marriage because it seems like the next logical thing to do.


Magnus,

I am very happy that you have found the resolution that you were seeking. I realize that your upcoming task with your GF is going to be difficult and painful for both of you, but you are doing the right thing. Perhaps with a little more experience and time you two will cross paths again and things will be different. In the meantime, enjoy your life as a single man. You will know when the time is right to settle down. Good luck to you.


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## Tigger (Dec 5, 2007)

magnus said:


> @thereal, I think it is uncharitable to assume that there is gotcha goodbye sex is on the table, or that my goal is to have some sex with other women while cruelly stringing her along and maybe come back to her for some more sex down the road. For us and I suspect many other couples, bed is a secure-feeling place where we talk about our difficult issues. Please dial back your aggression, as it has been painful enough getting to this decision.
> 
> It may seem obvious to a dispassionate observer that she is not right for me, but that to me that is still not obvious. In spite of everything I have complained about in our relationship there are many positives I have not done justice here. I still feel a strong bond with her, and at the moment it is all I bear to even think of suspending the romantic part of our relationship. Maybe the idea of friendship is a crutch for now, but it is one I need, and one she may need as well. Also, I would like to be able to say definitively, "you are not the right wife for me", but that is the problem - I can't, because I do not know it to be true, and I feel that is what I need to discover by exploring other relationships as an adult. I know compromise to be part of marriage and I believe I have to discover for myself how much of it and where is reasonable to expect.
> 
> Thank you for the comments everyone, your opinions have helped me a great deal while exploring my feelings and it would have been difficult to come to a self-aware decision without you, rather than walking straight into marriage because it seems like the next logical thing to do.


Why are you letting her coming out and spend 2 weeks with you when you want things to be over?

When are you planning to tell her? On the first day or wait until the end?

I know you don't think you are being douchey but you are.

I think you should tell her right away before she gets on the plane and refund her expenses.

Don't expect her to wait for you. You seem to act like that option is open. It won't be.


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## empty3 (Mar 12, 2013)

Guys, I fully understand everyone's point of view here. There seems to be an overwhelming response of "If you not madly in love with her dont marry her" 

I'm wondering if she actually realises this but feels the bond they could share as life partners is stronger. Should we base our decsion to marry purely on passion and love? How about comaptibility issues? Having the same goals and objectives? Caring for eachother and knowing that person will be kind and nurturing towards you? That they will look after you and put you first? Now I know this all sounds terribly boring but from what I'm reading here in the oldtimers section that's what it seems to be all about. Of course there needs to be physical attraction of sort and as for your sex life, perhaps after 7 years its just dullified but can be re-ignited again? Who knows?

Also, for many women, once they have invested 7 years of emotion, love and energy into a relationship they are ready to see it through despite some niggles they may have, Starting all over is scary and biological clock is ticking.

Magnus, Do you think this is cold feet or a real issue of wether you can spend the rest of your life with her? I agree with the posters that there needs to be love. Was I "in love" with my husband before we married? Yes I was. I was quite besotted, not only with him but with the concept of starting a life with him and having a future with him as I was attracted to his personality and charisma. Was the sex amazing? Yes it was. Did the thought of marrying him excite me? Yes it did.

But I can honestly, hand on heart say, these things probably didnt apply to him. We've discussed it in the past and he's admitted he married me becos I was kind and family orientated. I made him laugh and matched him intellectually. He found me physically attractive but I wasnt his "type". Fact is, after a string of high drama GF's he knew what kind of WIFE he was looking for. A genuine nice good girl which is what he found in me. Maybe it's a cultural thing. Probably is. Point I'm trying to make is he fell in love over time and is happy. We have our passionate moments and there is a spark there. I know I go on about our issues but I'm aware most of them are down to me and my self-esteem not neccessarily cos of him.

So, in summary, think about what kind of wife you want. 

It is worrying that you're so painstaked about it, but maybe you're just an overthinker? So many things to think about.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I think that she is special to you and that you do love her but maybe not in the way you should love your wife. It seems like you are trying to convince yourself that she is the "one." Honestly, if she is you will not realize it until you are without her for a while. You need to expereince other things and yes other women. I dont think you are using her at all. You are truly conflicted. 

Take the time you need and if she truly is the one you will find your way back to eachother.If you decide yes! its her and she is not there, not available then its just a lesson you had to learn and she really was never the "one " anyway...but the "one" will come along eventually and you will be another step closer to being ready for her. 

Dont string her along its not fair to either one of you.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

magnus said:


> I am 30 and she is 31.
> 
> We've had two discussions about this, the latest with her in tears explaining she would leave me if I could not commit to her in short order.
> 
> ...


As far as hurting her, getting married so as not to hurt her would be *CRUEL*. Certainly crueler than telling her the truth.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

magnus said:


> I am picturing us having this conversation in bed one morning or evening...


I can picture her getting out of bed, grabbing the closest lamp, and beating you silly with it.

Dude, telling a woman "thanks but no thanks," that you aren't going to marry her...in bed--the same bed you likely just finished having sex in--is...suicidal.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

"I really don't think about her much when we're apart for weeks at a time. "


Your answer is right there... I think about my wife all the time when we are not together.. and we are together daily....


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

Tigger said:


> Why are you letting her coming out and spend 2 weeks with you when you want things to be over?
> 
> When are you planning to tell her? On the first day or wait until the end?
> 
> ...


I agree. The classy thing for him to do would be to get on a plane and fly to where she is and have the conversation face to face.

Letting her fly to him, then planning on dumping her in bed, is a capital-D douche-bag move.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

The wisdom of people telling you to break clean kindly is compelling.


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