# Feel like I should get off the boat, is this normal?



## BeenThereAndSuffering (Mar 12, 2012)

Most of you have read my previous thread and my last few posts on it was describing my anger/bitterness I was experiencing since we decided to R. I want to be with him, I just don't know if I can...I always had the H that everyone looked up to and admired, I was always told how great a guy he was and how lucky I was to have him and now I have a cheating, lying and I don't know what he is capable of H...and to make matters worse on me, during our MC yesterday he told the counselor that he didn't regret his affair because at that time in his life he had no feelings for me, but once the affair was exposed and he agreed to NC and broke it, he did regret that and was remorseful for it because he lied to me..now WTF?? Am I going nutso?? If this is how he truly feels then he should be remorseful for lying to me before R by saying he was sorry and wished he could take it all back and even more remorseful for lying to me on our wedding day when he said his vows to me...part of me says hang in there and let everything come out and work through it in our MC sessions and it will be fine and another part of me says get out of the boat and swim because this man isn't the man I married and he will never be the same, he destroyed who he was and who I was...I am not *ME* anymore...are these still normal emotions to go through during R or was this a false R? Please help, I said it once I will say it again, I love him and want to be with him....just don't know if I can....


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I don't think you're wrong to have those feelings.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

is it a back and forth feeling where you change your mind a lot or is it to the point where you just can't do it?

feelings aren't wrong, you just need to understand them to make proper decisions


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Does he regret the OW's husband committed suicide or was that another person?


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## jinba (Apr 26, 2012)

I think your feelings are perfectly normal - or at least I hope they are because I struggle with the same indecision. Some days I feel very positive and others I wonder WTH I'm doing here. Follow your heart.


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## BeenThereAndSuffering (Mar 12, 2012)

My feelings go back and forth, one minute I am fine and the next i want to knock him upside the head for causing all this. He gets very emotional over talking about OWH, he feels responsible and I feel he should, even though no one will ever know exactly what his reasoning was behind the taking of his own life, had his W been home and not out with my H, it may have been prevented and 2 innocent children wouldn't be without a father. Another thing too is that my H got upset with me for calling OW a wh*re, he said "She isn't a *****!!"...I said "really, what do you call a woman who is willing to sleep with other men that aren't her H?"...I am beginning to think that maybe this is all my fault..not the affair but the feelings I am having now, i think I am torturing myself.. probing at every little thing and letting it eat away at me, I think I just want to hurt him for hurting me...maybe its revenge, I don't know, so confused and need some help..


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## jinba (Apr 26, 2012)

Sometimes we can be our own worst enemy. You're beating yourself up and that self induced stress is taking its toll. I wish I had some magical words of wisdom to share that would help you, but unfortunately I'm often in the same boat. My heart and head do battle on a regular basis - I just try to trust my heart because my thoughts are so mixed up.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I think your counselor's words about him ring true to be honest.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

BeenThereAndSuffering said:


> My feelings go back and forth, one minute I am fine and the next i want to knock him upside the head for causing all this. He gets very emotional over talking about OWH, he feels responsible and I feel he should, even though no one will ever know exactly what his reasoning was behind the taking of his own life, had his W been home and not out with my H, it may have been prevented and 2 innocent children wouldn't be without a father. Another thing too is that my H got upset with me for calling OW a wh*re, he said "She isn't a *****!!"...I said "really, what do you call a woman who is willing to sleep with other men that aren't her H?"...I am beginning to think that maybe this is all my fault..not the affair but the feelings I am having now, i think I am torturing myself.. probing at every little thing and letting it eat away at me, I think I just want to hurt him for hurting me...maybe its revenge, I don't know, so confused and need some help..


Three very, very important things that you need to know, understand, and OWN.

1. The OWH's suicide is not your fault, not your husband's fault,
and not the OW's fault. Suicide is a coward's way out. The victim(s) is/are not the person that committed suicide, but those left behind wondering "why?".

2. Your husband's affair is not your fault. He and he alone made the decision to have sex with someone outside of his marriage. He and he alone decided to betray the one person in the world that he swore allegiance to, no matter what.

3. He doesn't seem to be showing remorse for the affair, but remorse for being caught.
If the boat is sinking, it's a good time to get off and start swimming for shore.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I also think that his remorse isn't placed in the right direction (rather he has guilt instead) and it is causing you to feel this way

have you seen the chart in the newbie link in my signature?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

BeenThereAndSuffering said:


> during our MC yesterday he told the counselor that he didn't regret his affair because at that time in his life he had no feelings for me, but once the affair was exposed and he agreed to NC and broke it, he did regret that and was remorseful for it because he lied to me..now WTF?? Am I going nutso??


If you look through my posts you'll see that as a BS, far be it from me to take the side of the WS (as in, I'm pretty sure I never have). But is it possible that he bumbled his way through this and you took what he said the wrong way? And this is what I mean by that:

I know my WS didn't regret much of anything *during* the affair. That's because it was his escape, his fantasy, his protective bubble of fun. He didn't feel any regret at that time because it wasn't about me. And I know this doesn't make you feel better--but he wasn't thinking about me at all. Affairs are profoundly selfish, narcissistic endeavors. I am constantly using the word escapist because they are compartmentalizing their minds the entire time. There's 'affair world' and then there's real life, and they're working overtime making sure the two don't meet.

I realize it's very hurtful to hear him say he had no feelings for you then. But he was directing his energy toward his affair partner. BUT SO DO THEY ALL.

I'm not saying you're supposed to get past that or accept it or anything else--because only you know what you can handle and what you can't.

I think the suicide plays a strong role in your situation. It is another horrible event and loss that adds a layer of additional emotions on top of everything else. But I completely agree with DanF, suicide--like having an affair--is a choice that is under each person's control, and no one else's. It is wrong for either of you to blame the suicide on your husband. Working past that will take a very long time, but if you are able to do just that one thing it will be turning an important corner.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Wow, so sorry.

I feel the same way, though.
I don't see our marriage as the same. It feels fake, but I was lied to for almost a decade.
I don't look at him the same way.
I don't feel I'm the same person, either. He killed my spirit. I'm now cynical about marriage and love. I don't believe in it anymore. 
Basically, everything I thought or felt about my life with him went right out the window.
So when you're trying to R, it kinda makes it hard. 
I feel trapped.
I think my husband suffers from guilt more than remorse, too.


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## jinba (Apr 26, 2012)

My H says the guilt eats you alive - he hates the fact that he's done so many things that hurt me - and wishes he could take it all back. He realizes he can't change the past, so he tries to forcus on moving forward. 

Point is, I think the guilt is necessary for there to be remorse. I don't think the two are easily separated.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

So how would one describe the difference between guilt and remorse? 

I think WS feels guilt now and maybe did in the beginning, but at some point he said he put the ONS away in his head and tried to pretend like it never happened. Ten years of that crap.

So guilt apparently didn't eat my WS alive. He said he was planning to go to his grave with it. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

MC is not fun for most folks and it takes work. R takes work and things will be said that we may not like. MC is not about us the BS's getting our pound of flesh. It is about two people trying to work through their issues and hopefully R happens.

Hang in there and hopefully he can give you what you need, but he will need some things from you as well. It takes two to make R work and at least he is engaging you in MC.


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## jinba (Apr 26, 2012)

Guilt is taking responsibility for the offense. Remorse is the expression of regret. 

The two are closely related - and I don't believe you can be remorseful until you take responsibility for your actions.


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## BeenThereAndSuffering (Mar 12, 2012)

Had a very interestingly strange conversation with H last night.. I asked him if he was really wanting to make our relationship work? and his response was "what kind of question is that?"...I told him that if he was serious about staying together and working things out and truly committed to me that we should renew our wedding vows to each other since they had been broken..and he got angry, he said that we had just came through so much and that if a year from now we were still together then we can but not now. When I questioned him about it our conversation went all over the place we talked about wether he would always be a cheater and the topic that really got me was when he said he didn't know if i was the person he wanted to be with...said he loved me and what not but couldn't commit until he knew for sure that I wasn't going to go back to the way I was (depression, etc)...but you would figure my feelings would matter somewhere here in this...he is the one who went outside our marriage......has anyone elses WS done this? and where should i go from here?


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## jinba (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes - OMG - Yes! When I first confronted H he wasn't sure about his feelings for me - "didn't know what he wanted" - but wasn't ready to leave me either.

I fought like hell - and every time I said I thought things were better between us, he said "how can I be sure this won't change?" Frankly, I felt used and abused - it was all about him and his wants, needs, feelings, etc. ... mine didn't really seem to matter.

Took him a long time to realize the OW wasn't what he thought she was - but he ended the affair. Trouble is, he didn't understand how his actions changed me - I wasn't (and likely will never be) the same as a result of his infidelity.

For a long time I felt like I wasn't good enough - that I must be flawed in some way - why else would he do this to me? WRONG - I finally realized that I wasn't being true to myself - I was doing/acting the way he wanted me to.

I finally learned that I am who I am - and I'm a good person with values. I have compassion for others and am true to my family and friends. It is NOT my fault that he strayed - it's his - and if he can't love me for who I am, then I don't need him in my life.

In my case (after years of dealing with this) things have greatly improved - but my attitude is still the same - if at any time he decides I'm not "good enough" - I'll walk - no questions asked. I will not let him destroy my self esteem and confidence again.

I'm not in your situation, so I really can't say where you should go from here - but be true to yourself. Don't let him strip you of your dignity and self esteem. This is NOT your fault.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

BeenThereAndSuffering said:


> Had a very interestingly strange conversation with H last night.. I asked him if he was really wanting to make our relationship work? and his response was "what kind of question is that?"...I told him that if he was serious about staying together and working things out and truly committed to me that we should renew our wedding vows to each other since they had been broken..and he got angry, he said that we had just came through so much and that if a year from now we were still together then we can but not now. When I questioned him about it our conversation went all over the place we talked about wether he would always be a cheater and the topic that really got me was when he said he didn't know if i was the person he wanted to be with...said he loved me and what not but couldn't commit until he knew for sure that I wasn't going to go back to the way I was (depression, etc)...but you would figure my feelings would matter somewhere here in this...he is the one who went outside our marriage......has anyone elses WS done this? and where should i go from here?


have you been monitoring him? because he's speaking as if he was still in an affair


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

jinba,

I think you statement...

"if at any time he decides I'm not "good enough" - I'll walk - no questions asked. I will not let him destroy my self esteem and confidence again."

conveys a place, most of us BS that R end up. Once you have rode the crazy train of Betrayal, Exposure, Hurt, Counseling, to Reconciliation of a marriage... you are a changed person. 

In some peoples minds, we that R with a cheating spouse are week and needy people. Far from it, in my mind. The effects of being betrayed builds a resolve that is forever etched to your soul. 

Once bitten, twice... If my wife wakes up one day and says "I don't want this anymore". I will let her go without discussion. She knows without doubt, the first instance of an inappropriate relationship, I will not look back. 

Before her affairs were known to me, I was that husband that said if you cheat, we are through. But, it was just words then. I hadn't lived it, hadn't processed it, remember... it was never going to happen. Never again, I'm not the same person... changed forever.


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## jinba (Apr 26, 2012)

RWB - you're so right! I had the same convictions about cheating before it happened - swore I would never tolerate it. In fact, before we got married (nearly 34 years ago) I told him there were three things I wouldn't live with - excessive drinking (my Dad was an alcoholic), physical abuse and cheating - he's done all three and I'm still here.

Sometimes I reprimand myself for betraying myself and putting up with everything that he's done - but like you said, you really don't know what you'll do until you live it.

We are not weak - but stronger than most I think - and much better prepared to deal with whatever life throws at us.


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## BeenThereAndSuffering (Mar 12, 2012)

I know he isn't still in an affair, he doesn't go anywhere without me, etc...but he was rather stating that if I go back to being depressed and selfish like I was before his affair that he doesn't want to be with me..so you know, my depression was from the death of a child and then months later the death of my best friend, I will admit I was in an awful place then, I did not mean to push my husband away but was rather crying out for his help and he ran in the opposite direction which led to the affair.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

BeenThereAndSuffering said:


> I know he isn't still in an affair, he doesn't go anywhere without me, etc...but he was rather stating that if I go back to being depressed and selfish like I was before his affair that he doesn't want to be with me..so you know, my depression was from the death of a child and then months later the death of my best friend, I will admit I was in an awful place then, I did not mean to push my husband away but was rather crying out for his help and he ran in the opposite direction which led to the affair.


I don't know how well your husband expresses himself. Was he simply suggesting that there were problems in the marriage before the affair and he expects them to eventually be addressed or the changes made to be permanent? That is the only thing I can think of. His statement is tactless nonetheless.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

After my wife and I reconciled, we both knew that we were committed to each other. I did ask if it would make her feel better if we renewed our vows, but she told me that we have already re-committed to each other. Our originals vows were fine.
Also realize that if those vows were already broken once, why just toss words around again?
We realized that we both messed up very badly. We are human and humans are perfect in only one way. We screw up. In every other way, we are flawed.
You say that you know he is not seeing the OW anymore, but it doesn't mean that the fog has lifted. It took me about 4 months.
Also, please don't take the following statement in offense.
If the marriage was great, he wouldn't have looked elsewhere for attention. While his decision to cheat was his and his alone, he must have been missing something at home. Figure out what that something is and make sure that he has it.
One more thing;
I can understand the BS being angry, *****y, and telling the WS, "You screwed up, so kiss my ass until I am no longer mad about it!"
This will not help in pulling the WS back to you and lifting the fog.


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## BeenThereAndSuffering (Mar 12, 2012)

UPDATE FOR ALL: so everyone doesn't think I have abandoned TAM I am posting my update..things have been so crazy the past month, we recieved phone calls from AP mom-in-law asking my H why he continued A after telling OWS he would never see her again and let him know she held him responsible for her sons death, also found out that his AP has been HIV+ since '08 and has been mentally institutionalized multiple times for trying to kill herself and also since she has left the state has been arrested for getting high and leaving her kids in car, and AP also came to my home while the H was out and accused me of keeping them apart that he was going to be her man cause she knows he would be a good dad to her kids..etc...this woman is truly certifiable..He has had no contact with her and everything he lied to me about he came clean to me on and we are on a great path to recovery, things are really going great, when I have questions at anytime I just ask them when they hit my mind and he answers them..we have talked for hours and held each other and cried for hours as well..He has even been taking me to his job and places he had been with her and introducing me as the most beautiful sexy woman in the world and the love of his life, we have also started attending a church and I must admit that I enjoy this new man that he has began to grow into but I have made it very clear that any relationship that I feel intrusive or inappropriate in our marriage that I will walk away and not stand and fight again because this has been the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. But for the moment life is good and I am holding on to faith that our future will be even brighter..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You have got yourself tested for STDs/HIV?


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm new but it's almost been a year Aug. 31 that I found out and my feelings are still all over the place I think it is normal. I don't think H is feeling and quilt over it and the lies or admission of information keeps coming up. We went to MC and now we are each in our own C. The worst is all the personal issues that have been brought up that are not even related to his betrayal. WE a trying to R and I'm sure he would like it to go faster. There are times I really hate myself for not being stronger and kicking him to the curb then again I have never loved someone like this before. I have never felt this alone either. He complains that he was feeling alone in the marriage well he's more alone now since my walls are up and I don't support him in anything if I don't feel comfortable first. I really get mad is he had all this time to be with someone else but he has no time to be with me. We pours himself into his work thinking being a good provider is being a good husband. I told him this weekend if I don't get a vacation I'm taking the dog and we're going to the beach without him. Oh getting off subject. As I said some days it's ok I can forgive I knw others have done so and then other times it's not ok. I still cry everyday and grieve for what I have lost. Seems no one else lost anything everyone else is ok just little old me can't get over it.


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## WorkOnIt (Jun 6, 2012)

RWB said:


> jinba,
> 
> I think you statement...
> 
> ...


100% know how that feels


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## BeenThereAndSuffering (Mar 12, 2012)

We both have been tested for STD's and negative results so far but since its HIV we have to be tested every 3 mos for 1yr and then once a year for the next 10yrs since it can take that long for HIV to show up. And Jupiter and WorkOnIT, I know exactly what you are talking about, I still cry everyday as well, because I feel like I am not me anymore, somedays I even feel lost. I still hurt and I still get angry and when these feelings come up I tell my H and we talk about them and he listens and tries to comfort me, though sometimes I don't want his comfort I just want him to leave me alone and he does til I am ready to talk or the emotions pass..I know its not going to be easy and so does my H, we even began doing the Love Dare together and it has helped us learn more about each other and be less selfish and more focused on the other, I recommend you give it a try when your relationship is ready for it, even if u do it on your own without your spouse. And u can see it online for free on the KLOVE website..I also recommend NOT JUST FRIENDS, this is a book my H actually picked up and read and then brought it to me and told me that it may help me understand the emotions I was going through and it did help, it even gives suggestions on overcoming the emotions as they come. I am not trying to sell books here but feel they can help especiallly on those times you want to be alone and left alone. Thank you everyone for all your support to me during all of this and I hope to continue to recieve it as well as give it and if right now I had to say who my closest friends were I would have to say it is the members of TAM. Thank you.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> So how would one describe the difference between guilt and remorse?
> 
> I think WS feels guilt now and maybe did in the beginning, but at some point he said he put the ONS away in his head and tried to pretend like it never happened. Ten years of that crap.
> 
> ...


Here's something I found online that helped my H understand the difference between guilt and remorse:

_
I think it is relatively normal for a wayward spouse to go through a period of guilt, where they realize in one of those inconvenient moments of clarity, just how far into the gutter they have allowed themselves to fall BUT an emotionally mature person, one who really is COMMITTED to gaining back what they stand on the verge of losing, will work to move beyond that, face up to the realities of the situation and find true remorse. 

I wish every formally wayward spouse well on this journey. For those who need some direction, the following may be helpful;

Real remorse means seeing the pain you caused someone, and reaching out to make it better. Feeling bad for the person in pain. It is not about allowing them to heal themselves but taking an active role in helping the betrayed heal.

A person who feels guilt rather than remorse sees the pain of others (that they inflicted) as judgment, condemnation, and feels bad for themselves and their circumstances. What they feel for the person in pain is anger - ANGER for showing them what they don't want to see (the consequences of their actions).

Someone who feels remorse for doing a bad thing will always consider the thing they did to be bad without justifications.

Bad feelings associated with guilt are situational, and change with circumstances.

Someone really remorseful doesn't want to repeat a harmful action - they aren't even tempted to. Real remorse means never doing it again, self accountability.

Someone who feels guilty can still repeat the actions causing the guilt (continue the affair), precisely to escape the guilt. The only way to end feelings of guilt is self accountability - guilt happens when someone runs from it.

Remorse says "I'm deeply and truly sorry I hurt you and I will do whatever it takes to help you heal".
Guilt says "stop making me feel bad for what I did" because that makes me angry. 

Remorse is compassionate and understanding at all times.
Guilt is angry and defensive.

Remorse cares more about the one who was wounded. They don't care about others holding them accountable because they already hold themselves accountable.
Guilt worries more about how the wounded one makes them appear in the eyes of others. They feel their self image is being attacked. They worry about others holding them accountable because they shirk self accountability and self-awareness.

Remorse means learning from one's harmful actions.
Guilt means not even facing what one has done, so learning from it isn't likely. Guilty people don't want to truly face what they've done because it's too hard and too embarrassing for THEM. Guilty people find it hard to meet the needs and wants of their betrayed spouse because they still want it to be about them. Their actions will be lacking.

Remorse means leaving the harmful actions one did in the past, but not forgetting them.
Guilt carries harmful actions around, keeping them ever present, by attempting to avoid dealing with them. They will always be ever present, a thorn in ones side, looming large and affecting one's life until faced and dealt with. This is self inflicted torture - although a person struggling with guilt will blame others.

Remorse is action, actively doing something about the harm one caused.
Guilt is feeling self pity and doing nothing or very little about the harm one caused. It is about their feelings rather than the feelings of the betrayed._


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

Bad morning he tried to justify. Justification is not remorse is all I hear in my head. He says he's trying. Yes he is he pours all his time into the business. I'm going back to bed or I'm finding a bottle I can't deal with this world today.


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## BeenThereAndSuffering (Mar 12, 2012)

I know what you are going through, this is part of it, my H did the same and I like you turned to a bottle, for over a month I didn't eat or drink anything else other than whiskey. You know if you ever want someone to talk to I am here..you are NOT alone..


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