# Detraction from main point of thread



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

It seems that the main reason that some threads get so many posts are that some posters like to point out how another poster’s post is wrong. I can understand how that would be helpful in a few cases to a point but do we get so caught up in debating each others posts that we fail to give information to the main point?

A poster will make a point then another poster will take the opposite view or disagree with the first poster then they spend days pointing out errors in each other’s posts. The debate becomes so dominate that the main issue becomes secondary or ignored.

*Do those personal debates that go on for days detract from the main issue of the thread?*


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> It seems that the main reason that some threads get so many posts are that some posters like to point out how another poster’s post is wrong. I can understand how that would be helpful in a few cases to a point but do we get so caught up in debating each others posts that we fail to give information to the main point?
> 
> A poster will make a point then another poster will take the opposite view or disagree with the first poster then they spend days pointing out errors in each other’s posts. The debate becomes so dominate that the main issue becomes secondary or ignored.
> 
> *Do those personal debates that go on for days detract from the main issue of the thread?*


Yes it seems to derail topics and often the original poster almost becomes irrelevant because of the sidebar debates.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

If you see posts that threadjack, please report those. A moderator can take a closer look at the thread in question.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

The debates/arguments are mind numbing and totally detract from anything that an OP needs help with. It's pretty disheartening that people sometimes pick out one thing they don't agree with in someone's post and as you said a topic will get side tracked for countless posts due to the egos bickering back and forth. Reminds me a lot of my 8 year old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Sounds like a normal "family" to me.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Squirrel!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Regret, I cannot believe you would suggest squirrel as an appropriate contribution to this thread.

Clearly, chipmunk is the correct suggestion here. Even raccoon would be a better option and input of some value here to be considered. But squirrel? Really?


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> It seems that the main reason that some threads get so many posts are that some posters like to point out how another poster’s post is wrong.


Your post is WRONG!


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> If you see posts that threadjack, please report those. A moderator can take a closer look at the thread in question.


You wouldn't have anyone left to post here if you consistently banned threadjackers. Everyone here has threadjacked and do so more times than they'd care to admit.

As far as the premise of the thread, I think you have usually two sides of the fence, the wayward side, and the BS side, and when debates arise its usually because one side thinks its horrible advice or doing the OP a disservice because they have an agenda. We are all guilty of it.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

Some threadjackers really like to hear (and read) their own opinions. When someone threadjacks the main point of a BS and opines with less that helpful advise or even hurtful advise that needs to be nipped in the bud early.


----------



## DoveEnigma13 (Oct 31, 2013)

I see where you're coming from. Sometimes the sidebar conversations do add to the discussion overall though.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Dove
> I see where you're coming from. Sometimes the sidebar conversations do add to the discussion overall though.



Yes they do, your are correct. However, I am talking about:




> A poster will make a point then another poster will take the opposite view or disagree with the first poster then they *spend days pointing out errors* in each other’s posts.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

One only need to look at the Wayward thread from a few weeks ago. It was started in an attempt to give wayward spouses a "safe" place to openly discuss issues that we deal with. Instead it turned into a thread with over 2,900 posts questioning whether waywards were good parents or whether or not Rookie was actually a wayward instead of a betrayed.

I agree with loyallad in that a lot of thread jackers just type to read their own words. However, it also seems that far too many just can't let their ego go long enough to let someone else's opinion sink in before retorting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Walking Dead starts up again soon!


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> Walking Dead starts up again soon!


"They're f'ng with the wrong people."

I can't wait!!!


Hey. I see what you did there, AR! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> One only need to look at the Wayward thread from a few weeks ago. It was started in an attempt to give wayward spouses a "safe" place to openly discuss issues that we deal with.


It was obvious in the very first post in that thread that a safe haven for WS was not the primary objective. It was an offshoot of another thread in which R wanted to thumb his nose at BSs that didn't agree with him.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

vellocet said:


> It was obvious in the very first post in that thread that a safe haven for WS was not the primary objective. It was an offshoot of another thread in which R wanted to thumb his nose at BSs that didn't agree with him.


Which is why you argued with him for over 2900 posts. It was ridiculous. HE started the thread and you and others accused him that he had ulterior motives and claiming to know his mind. That is the point of THIS thread. That there are those, like you, who go into thread after thread only to push YOUR idea without giving pause to others. 

It reminds me of current politics. No matter what Obama does, it's wrong according to the Republicans. No matter what Republicans claim, the Democrats attempt to poke holes in the story.

Again - it's simply ridiculous.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Which is why you argued with him for over 2900 posts. It was ridiculous.


That's our opinion and you are entitled to it.


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

EI said:


> The fact that you pepper virtually every single one of your posts, to any fWS who doesn't meet _your_ definition of a truly remorseful fWS, with these subtle digs and little jabs, has effectively reduced, if not eliminated, your apparent goal of demoralizing those who you have deemed to be inferior to you.
> 
> When one seems incapable or unwilling of making a thoughtful, rational, or well thought out post, or of simply adding something of value to the conversation, vs. constantly pointing the finger of shame, blame, and guilt, I think they lose their target audience. I believe that they're no longer taken seriously. IMHO, of course.
> 
> ...


I don't think that's fair. You make generalized statements and clump sentiments. There are indeed remorseful WSs whose input and insight are helpful, and unremorseful ones whose opinions or insensitive remarks are hurtful (including some BSs who willingly take the blame for their WS's cheating). They need to know there are more cheating websites out there than there are websites like TAM, that will gladly agree with them and that's where they belong. No BSs needs to feel further "insult to injury" here on TAM. CWI is supposed to be recovery help from infidelity. Each one of us is grieving a loss on many levels...Allow *vellocet* to vent, it is his right and he is in the right place to do so.

Why was his posts being counted in the first place? Ammunition to ridicule him? He has an opinion and he has the right to respond as he sees fit and as often as he wants to. Why? Because this is the appropriate venue or forum made just for that purpose.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

EI said:


> Then, there are the folks who appear to come here for no other reason than to commiserate. They don't ever seem to heal, move forward, or move beyond their unhappiness. These folks breathe life into the old saying "Misery loves company."


Hmmm... I actually think I am a bit guilty of this at times... I waver back and forth and while definitely making progress, have not fully healed nor moved beyond my unhappiness. And truthfully, at times, yes I do want to commiserate (emphasis on misery) just a bit with others who've felt that pain, who I know understand it in ways no one who's not been there can really understand. 

I suppose it's my 'no-ill-will-intended' way of saying, I think a public forum like TAM has many purposes to many people. No one of us is right nor gets to dictate what it's for. And opinions are... well, we all know the joke. Everyone's got one.

But in the end, it's all learning. Much of it good and useful, but some unfortunately disgusting but still useful to know. And in a world of hurt like this, sometimes that learning takes quite a while to open up to, if it ever happens for some people.

and I'd just add, that imho it's certainly not just WS's vs BS's disagreeing or at odds. There are plenty of conflicts within the BS folks.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Don't be jelly of my Velly


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LOL, this place can get highly ridiculous with the sensitivity of some posters.


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Walking dead starts up?

Hey, all of a sudden i am a little peckish! not sure why


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> I don't think that's fair. You make generalized statements and clump sentiments. There are indeed remorseful WSs whose input and insight are helpful, and unremorseful ones whose opinions or insensitive remarks are hurtful (including some BSs who willingly take the blame for their WS's cheating). They need to know there are more cheating websites out there than there are websites like TAM, that will gladly agree with them and that's where they belong. No BSs needs to feel further "insult to injury" here on TAM. CWI is supposed to be recovery help from infidelity. Each one of us is grieving a loss on many levels...Allow *vellocet* to vent, it is his right and he is in the right place to do so.
> 
> Why was his posts being counted in the first place? Ammunition to ridicule him? He has an opinion and he has the right to respond as he sees fit and as often as he wants to. Why? Because this is the appropriate venue or forum made just for that purpose.


Opinions are welcome when not directed as attacks. Some are here to help. Others come here with anger.

EI has helped many to recovery.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Good points jim. I'd like to see the ratio of betrayed males who "kicked the wh0re to the curb" vs the ones in active reconciliation. I think the "current state of CWI" would be apparent. It would also show why threads get detailed all the time when someone or a group attempt to hammer their point home for hundreds and sometimes thousands of posts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> Good points jim. I'd like to see the ratio of betrayed males who "kicked the wh0re to the curb" vs the ones in active reconciliation. I think the "current state of CWI" would be apparent. It would also show why threads get detailed all the time when someone or a group attempt to hammer their point home for hundreds and sometimes thousands of posts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would like to add to those who were kicked to the curb and those in reconciliation but out of weakness instead of strength.

Most of the time, posters are angry at themselves and not the WS. It is the inaction in their own lives that makes them so angry.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Originally Posted by Regret214 *
> One only need to look at the Wayward thread from a few weeks ago. It was started in an attempt to give wayward spouses a "safe" place to openly discuss issues that we deal with.
> 
> *Reply by Vellocet*
> It was obvious in the very first post in that thread that a safe haven for WS was not the primary objective. It was an offshoot of another thread in which R wanted to thumb his nose at BSs that didn't agree with him.


When I started this thread I had the Lurking Wayward thread in my mind. Although there are other threads like that the Lurking Wayward thread was an obvious one that applies to this thread. I posted several times on that Lurking Wayward thread that 90% of the 2900 posts did not address the OP/s words in his first post.

*The intent of the thread was a complete bomb because most responders’ did not have any interested in helping Lurking Wayward but they did have other agendas.*

It is a wonder that EI and Regret still post here. I am sure glad that they have the backbone to still post as we can all learn from them. I started a thread a year or so ago and asked how many TAM posters have over 5 years of R. If I remember right it was either 3 or 4. The number was pathetically low and I think that one reason is that majority of posters are not mostly interested in helping but want a stage for personal vent of anger, hurt, and vengeance to name just a few. Those that have over 5 years probably get disgusted with the anger and vengeance and leave.

One of the best threads on TAM under the CWI was by B1 and titled “Reconciliation”. B1 and EI were truly sincere about getting information, sharing information, and looking for a way to salvage their marriage and family and help others. There was a lot of honest truth and openness with intent of helping and getting better. B1 and EI were very instrumental in that thread as were several others. Yes it had some posts that were not in tune with R but they were not responded too as much as the ones that had the right intentions.


However, look at what happened to B1; he quit posting! Now I do not blame him and I even told him to put his family above TAM. Actually, I think that B1 is better off without TAM because he is diligently working at whipping the destruction of infidelity. I think that people look at the positive of TAM and the negative of TAM and they decide which outweighs the other for them. I think that in B1 case the negative was more prevalent for him. *Why should B1 subject himself to the negative when he and EI are kicking Mr. Infidelity right in the AZZ?*


We are fortunate to have EI still posting even though she has reduced her posts SIGNIFICANTLY. Frankly I do not think that EI needs TAM to any great degree but she just loves to try and help.
Frankly I would not be surprised if EI no longer posted here in the year 2015 and I would bet money she will not be here in 2016.


Regret has taken a beating more than once and it is no wonder that her husband left the TAM because he still loves Regret and probably wanted to kick those a-holes in the AZZ so hard that they would wear their a-hole for a collar. I know I would if they talked about my wife like that and that is the reason that I do not talk about my wife too much on this TAM forum.


*I guess it boils down to those TAM posters that really want to help others and themselves and those that do not have that as their number one goal but have other agendas.. *To be blunt and rough is OK if the intention is right and the discussion is helpful. However, to go on and on with discussions not related to the topic for pages and pages is so distracting and in some cases harmful to the TAM forum.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sometimes threads take on a life of their own. Sometimes people come in with agendas and try to derail them. Sometimes people say they are trying to help when they are really masking their hurtful remarks. In any case it's TAM and that's just the way it is. You learn who the genuine posters are pretty quick. I have learned a ton since I found this place about 3 years ago.


----------



## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Mr Blunt said:


> It seems that the main reason that some threads get so many posts are that some posters like to point out how another poster’s post is wrong. I can understand how that would be helpful in a few cases to a point but do we get so caught up in debating each others posts that we fail to give information to the main point?
> 
> A poster will make a point then another poster will take the opposite view or disagree with the first poster then they spend days pointing out errors in each other’s posts. The debate becomes so dominate that the main issue becomes secondary or ignored.
> 
> *Do those personal debates that go on for days detract from the main issue of the thread?*


Isn't that true of the internet everywhere?


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

From what I've seen TAM posters are in so many different stages of discovery and recovery that an expectation of detachment in these conversations, is, itself, a bit unreasonable. Take a newly BS who has only recently discovered the A. When a WS replies to one of their posts that they seem so angry and that they should get counseling to get past it, it may very well be filled with good intentions. The reality is good intentions are irrelevant and not always present. Assume that BS just spoke with their own WS and was told things like "that again" or "can't you just get over it" The BS tries to vent on TAM and is then-often if a rather condescending manner-told by veteran TAMers they are simply projecting and its not fair to the other WS. Anything the BS posts is simply dismissed. Now we have two posters in a bitter fight that isn't helping anyone and threads are detracted for pages.

I have no solution, other than to preach more empathy. It is a painful subject that takes place in so many different contexts.


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

jim123 said:


> I would like to add to those who were kicked to the curb and those in reconciliation but out of weakness instead of strength.
> 
> Most of the time, posters are angry at themselves and not the WS. It is the inaction in their own lives that makes them so angry.


Why does this sound pompous? How many WSs actually help BSs here on TAM? 2? What about the other WSs who come here? Some come for their daily narcissistic IV dose, getting high on how their infidelity can wreak havoc on another person's life or to learn how BSs collect evidence? 

No I will not hero-worship WSs who saw "the light". If you are going to help someone, do so from your heart with no expectations, if you have a heart and most WSs don't. Threads take on a life of their own, each one is unique and ends that way. Who cares if there are tributaries along the river? The point is we all get to share each other's pain and help each other to cope. I have yet to see anyone else fully understand the plight of a BS, other than another BS.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> Why does this sound pompous? How many WSs actually help BSs here on TAM? 2? What about the other WSs who come here? Some come for their daily narcissistic IV dose, getting high on how their infidelity can wreak havoc on another person's life or to learn how BSs collect evidence?
> 
> No I will not hero-worship WSs who saw "the light". If you are going to help someone, do so from your heart with no expectations, if you have a heart and most WSs don't. Threads take on a life of their own, each one is unique and ends that way. Who cares if there are tributaries along the river? The point is we all get to share each other's pain and help each other to cope. I have yet to see anyone else fully understand the plight of a BS, other than another BS.


It's a lot like someone who never raised children of their own giving parenting advise. You may have good intentions and maybe something worth while to add but you have never walked in those shoes.

If you have never felt the gut wrenching pain of a spouse's infidelity don't try to tell me how to feel, what to feel or how some or all of the infidelity is my fault. Those that have never been betrayed just don't have that right. Am I saying that shouldn't be on here? Nope. As stated above those that are not BS may have something relevant to add to the discussion but don't try to take over a thread when you have never experienced being cheated on.

I think most of the BS on here soon realize who means well and has productive things to add and those on here because they don't have a life and think getting on here to spew their personal beliefs makes them Dr. Phil. If you are not a BS and you post over 20 replies a day every day for over a year go find something else to do. If you were that damn smart you would be the next Dr. Phil or whatever entertainment purposes "guru". If you are that narcissistic just go away. The BS on here are trying to find their direction again, to recover in some sort of way (even if it is just to vent). We've been rained on enough. Let us try to see the light of a new day.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> I started a thread a year or so ago and asked how many TAM posters have over 5 years of R. If I remember right it was either 3 or 4. The number was pathetically low and I think that one reason is that majority of posters are not mostly interested in helping but want a stage for personal vent of anger, hurt, and vengeance to name just a few. Those that have over 5 years probably get disgusted with the anger and vengeance and leave.




I came here thinking R, and have stayed that course regardless of TAM. However, I got some tools here I may not have otherwise congealed into my brain. 

That said, people tend, I believe, to come here for answers, and when they get them, they leave. To stay here and be in R is a little triggery. To stay here and try to help others is a noble effort, and lots of regulars here do just that. But one reason your poll may have not yielded the results you may have hoped for is, if someone is in R for five years, they don't need TAM any more. I've been here a year and a half, and although sometimes this place is (somewhat morbidly) addictive, I don't see it as a place I need to stay long term. 

That said, the threadjacks are interminably boring for those who want to stay on topic. We have to read someone bicker with someone else, when really, 99% of others don't give a damn. But telling them to take it offline only sucks you into their vortex, so it's allowed. 

To Rookie's credit, he tried to keep that thread on topic. It's like herding cats though, and that effort was doomed just from the nature of the posters in the forum. I doubt it's something you can really fix. Maybe short term, but not long term, unless the mods spend a LOT more time cruising through active threads. And it's apparent they don't have enough time for the sleuthing they're already doing.

It's frustrating, but it's something we just have to deal with in "public" forums like this. You get all kinds of egos here, from submissive to dominant. The key is to think before pressing "Submit Reply", asking yourself, "Is this contributing to the OP's dilemma?"


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> I challenge you to prove this with names and examples.
> 
> Your entire post is EXACTLY what Mr. Blunt and others have issues with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


With all due respect Regret, I think your post is more of the distraction and much more likely to pull the thread off target. Calibre made a generalized statement, clearly based on his opinion. Let it go.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Fine. I'll delete it but these unsubstantiated, flinging commentary is what really sucks about TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Isn't that true of the internet everywhere?


Yes, but TAM has moderators to keep it on track. Most of the internet doesn't.


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

The reality is Mr. Blunt that the point is MOOT. Once we try to "over-control" participants' input in posts, we lose everything meaningful and colorful. Life isn't a block of concrete...It's a box of chocolates.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Since this is a forum, the point is discussion, not merely the answering of yes/no questions.

Sometimes the evolving discussion winnows out focus and gleans further nuggets of information not included in the original posting.

Obviously, if a thread derails, it derails.

But for the most part I find the TAM forums to be illuminating.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

I'd suggest that people read Mr. Blunt's post on page 2. This is not about simply having a quick side conversation in a thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I guess what I'm getting at is that no poster gets to control the conversation beyond what the forum Mods want to do.

That includes me, BTW.

The give and take in a forum includes both strident voices and low key input. if it doesn't go in a linear fashion where someone wants it to, that person may or may not see value in where it ends up.

But I would argue that there is value in the discussion.

Out and out personal attacks are already addressed in the rules of the forum.


----------



## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

Something rather saddening is betrayed taking potshots at former betrayers. Those posts can be justified in thousands of ways but the end result is justification doesn't erase the fact that they were uncalled for. Our waywards never considered us human enough to Accord us the courtesy due to us. When we do the same, does it make us better or worse?


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Rohitvikash said:


> When we do the same, does it make us better or worse?


Neither. It makes the BS human. The BS are fallible and just as opt to fail as all other humans. I think it is sad that the BS are expected to take some sort of high road after being cut to the bone and having their entire world destroyed. It is like "we know that you are hurting and that is okay, but it is not fine to act out upon it and if you do there is something wrong with you and you should seek counseling." I call BS to that theory. Many here seem to think that BS should somehow not react to their pain in normal ways, such as emotional outburst or the desire and need to get revenge on the betrayer and actually follow through. Since the BS stayed true to their vows and is now somehow up for sainthood, they should be able to shed all resentment, pain, and fears. Crock o' sh!t!, I say.


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Neither. It makes the BS human. The BS are fallible and just as opt to fail as all other humans. I think it is sad that the BS are expected to take some sort of high road after being cut to the bone and having their entire world destroyed. It is like "we know that you are hurting and that is okay, but it is not fine to act out upon it and if you do there is something wrong with you and you should seek counseling." I call BS to that theory. Many here seem to think that BS should somehow not react to their pain in normal ways, such as emotional outburst or the desire and need to get revenge on the betrayer and actually follow through. Since the BS stayed true to their vows and is now somehow up for sainthood, they should be able to shed all resentment, pain, and fears. Crock o' sh!t!, I say.


:smthumbup: Bingo!


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Satan asking the saints to not be satanic...LOL!


----------



## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> It seems that the main reason that some threads get so many posts are that some posters like to point out how another poster’s post is wrong. I can understand how that would be helpful in a few cases to a point but do we get so caught up in debating each others posts that we fail to give information to the main point?
> 
> A poster will make a point then another poster will take the opposite view or disagree with the first poster then they spend days pointing out errors in each other’s posts. The debate becomes so dominate that the main issue becomes secondary or ignored.
> 
> *Do those personal debates that go on for days detract from the main issue of the thread?*


It's obvious that some threads are disingenuous, especially if an opening thread includes warnings about haters. It's not rocket science to see that it's not sincere if the objective is to immediately set a negative discrimination in a broad and predetermined and unsubstantial discrimination.

I find it interesting that discussion and debate is seen as off topic. It's ironic that those who find debate to be offensive are those who are cemented in their own viewpoint.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Served Cold said:


> It's ironic that those who find debate to be offensive are those who are cemented in their own viewpoint.


I think this is true, on both sides of every argument.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

EI said:


> Geez, vellocet is banned and I wasn't even trying. I didn't report him, but someone must have. Honestly, he didn't even offend me. He posted a sarcastic remark to regret, I responded with a typical "EI" comeback, he fired back at me with his usual little "vellocet" jab. I thought the whole exchange was completely mundane and uninspiring, to be honest.
> 
> I don't care much for vellocet's comments, but I don't find them to be particularly harmful like I have the comments of certain other posters in the past.
> 
> ...



I agree with you here. I actually like Vellocet. I can't figure out this 'banning' thing because I see some people who lay into other people really good and nothing happens, then others get banned for one post. Vellocet was responding to an attack from Regret. Neither should have gotten banned IMO but it's not my call. We need a diverse set of opinions here and I agree and I am glad that you did not report him. I winder who did ?


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Served Cold said:


> It's obvious that some threads are disingenuous, especially if an opening thread includes warnings about haters. It's not rocket science to see that it's not sincere if the objective is to immediately set a negative discrimination in a broad and predetermined and unsubstantial discrimination.
> 
> I find it interesting that discussion and debate is seen as off topic. It's ironic that those who find debate to be offensive are those who are cemented in their own viewpoint.


Dang! Could never say it better!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> Fine. I'll delete it but these unsubstantiated, flinging commentary is what really sucks about TAM.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, but it comes from all sides. No one looks at their side as the one creating fault. I've seen denigrating comments from people in R, divorced, in the middle of discovery, triggering, using religion etc etc etc. I don't think it sucks unless you let it eat you up.

People take things too personally. I don't know how many times I've seen a derail start because someone disagrees with an established poster.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

loyallad said:


> It's a lot like someone who never raised children of their own giving parenting advise. You may have good intentions and maybe something worth while to add but you have never walked in those shoes.
> 
> If you have never felt the gut wrenching pain of a spouse's infidelity don't try to tell me how to feel, what to feel or how some or all of the infidelity is my fault. Those that have never been betrayed just don't have that right. Am I saying that shouldn't be on here? Nope. As stated above those that are not BS may have something relevant to add to the discussion but don't try to take over a thread when you have never experienced being cheated on.
> 
> I think most of the BS on here soon realize who means well and has productive things to add and those on here because they don't have a life and think getting on here to spew their personal beliefs makes them Dr. Phil. If you are not a BS and you post over 20 replies a day every day for over a year go find something else to do. If you were that damn smart you would be the next Dr. Phil or whatever entertainment purposes "guru". If you are that narcissistic just go away. The BS on here are trying to find their direction again, to recover in some sort of way (even if it is just to vent). We've been rained on enough. Let us try to see the light of a new day.


Just because some posters here never disclose their own experiences doesn't mean they haven't been a BS or experienced cheating. You are making assumptions based on a set of facts that you don't have or know. further, some people may try to be Dr. Phil because they are Dr. Phil or have experience which lends something to this area.

So I strongly disagree with your assessment.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Neither. It makes the BS human. The BS are fallible and just as opt to fail as all other humans. I think it is sad that the BS are expected to take some sort of high road after being cut to the bone and having their entire world destroyed. It is like "we know that you are hurting and that is okay, but it is not fine to act out upon it and if you do there is something wrong with you and you should seek counseling." I call BS to that theory. Many here seem to think that BS should somehow not react to their pain in normal ways, such as emotional outburst or the desire and need to get revenge on the betrayer and actually follow through. Since the BS stayed true to their vows and is now somehow up for sainthood, they should be able to shed all resentment, pain, and fears. Crock o' sh!t!, I say.


I think part of the process for a BS to move forward is to let out the pain and frustrations of being betrayed. For anyone to think a BS should do otherwise just aren't from this world. If a WS thinks a BS should not have all these emotions and need to vent, need to quit taking this crap, well then those WS have no soul and no wonder they betrayed their S and their vows. 

Hopefully time will heal the BS and they will not lash out. Sometimes they just can't for whatever the reason. Is some of the venting on here hard to read, maybe? I can tell you that I have had some dark days and had I not been able to vent in some form I'm not to sure what the results would have been. Every BS has their own demons to deal with. I hope we all get to a place where we can let go finally of this hellish yoke we bear that we didn't ask for.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

wmn1 said:


> I agree with you here. I actually like Vellocet. I can't figure out this 'banning' thing because I see some people who lay into other people really good and nothing happens, then others get banned for one post. Vellocet was responding to an attack from Regret. Neither should have gotten banned IMO but it's not my call. We need a diverse set of opinions here and I agree and I am glad that you did not report him. I winder who did ?


I attacked him? Really? My words were an attack? How does anyone but a mod know what post anyone is banned for. It could be a culmination of posts. Who knows?

Edit to add...if you want to see an attack from me go look in the revenge thread. THAT was an attack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

wmn1 said:


> Just because some posters here never disclose their own experiences doesn't mean they haven't been a BS or experienced cheating. You are making assumptions based on a set of facts that you don't have or know. further, some people may try to be Dr. Phil because they are Dr. Phil or have experience which lends something to this area.
> 
> So I strongly disagree with your assessment.


Haven't assumed a thing. If someone on here freely admits they never have been betrayed then I take them at their word. And you are correct I don't know everyone's story on here, didn't imply I did. If you took what I posted as that, sorry. 

I think you do know that there are some who were as I said. They haven't been betrayed and come on here and post their thoughts. This is a public forum, it's not up to me or anyone else to personally screen everyone on here for their background.
Personally anyone who has never been betrayed has no right to tell me how I feel or what I did to deserve to be betrayed. That's all.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> I attacked him? Really? My words were an attack? ]


It's the written word,everyone understand what they themselves mean, but forget it never means the same to other people. I didn't see it as one, but then again my experiences differ from yours, v's and wmn1. So, they could read it differently.


----------



## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Mr Blunt said:


> It seems that the main reason that some threads get so many posts are that some posters like to point out how another poster’s post is wrong. I can understand how that would be helpful in a few cases to a point but do we get so caught up in debating each others posts that we fail to give information to the main point?
> 
> A poster will make a point then another poster will take the opposite view or disagree with the first poster then they spend days pointing out errors in each other’s posts. The debate becomes so dominate that the main issue becomes secondary or ignored.
> 
> *Do those personal debates that go on for days detract from the main issue of the thread?*


To force a thread to adhere to a described objective is underhanded. Discussion and debate is fluid as long as it is respectful. I've had my own threads, and I never threatened to report anyone who's views differed for my own. 

No offence , but this thread is not helpful and passive aggressive.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> I attacked him? Really? My words were an attack? How does anyone but a mod know what post anyone is banned for. It could be a culmination of posts. Who knows?
> 
> Edit to add...if you want to see an attack from me go look in the revenge thread. THAT was an attack.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) It was an attack. I didn't say it was your greatest one though. 
2) I agree with your statement about the mods


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

LOL. Okay.

I'd be curious as to your interpretation of "That's our opinion and you're entitled to it".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

loyallad said:


> Haven't assumed a thing. If someone on here freely admits they never have been betrayed then I take them at their word. And you are correct I don't know everyone's story on here, didn't imply I did. If you took what I posted as that, sorry.
> 
> *All I was saying is that some of the ones who haven't shared their personal story could very well be BS. To me, there's a reason why most of these people are here rather than playing golf or watching Monday Night Football. Personally, I don't discount what anyone says here regardless of background or experience because they may be right or have some perspective, whether they have been through it or not.*
> 
> ...


Some people speak as though they are advising you but many are only trying to help. Like EI said, if you don't like what they say, move to the next one. I work in a section of 20 people. 15 I know have been screwed over in some capacity. Of the other 5, there could be others who have been but won't speak about it. I do know 2 who have never been but one is one of the most intelligent, street smart and cunning people I have ever met. I would go to him for advice before relying on the others who have been through betrayal because he has seen it with people close to him, he knows what they did to beat it, and he adds a third person perspective which doesn't tie emotions or baggage to situations and helped one of the other guys through an affair he endured last year. So again I strongly disagree with you and your assessment over who has a 'right' as opposed to not having a 'right'.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

Rohitvikash said:


> My xw used to feed biscuits to the street dogs. A compassionate person, right? That didn't stop her from filing false marital rape charges against me. It took me a while to wrap my head around it but what I do understand now is she didn't consider me a living, breathing thing that could understand pain. Husband was just a word for her.
> 
> How did I vent? By destroying the om physically. The betrayed goes through what can be termed as mental torture painful enough to cause insanity.
> The more you try to make sense of the devastation, the more it seems worse.


Roh,
If someone has never been torn apart from betrayal then they just don't know the darkness, the depths one may go in reaction to the betrayal.

As for your WW and some other WS that never consider what they are doing to their BS, well I just don't think anybody can be so destructive, so insensitive 100% of the time. Thus they are capable of some acts of decency, some form of kindness. A friend of mine who has had two marriages fail for various reasons thinks even the worst of people are only bad about 25% of the time. I tend to think this is reasonably accurate.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> LOL. Okay.
> 
> I'd be curious as to your interpretation of "That's our opinion and you're entitled to it".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I thought Vellocet was taking the high road with that statement. You should not assume, though, that I mean you were on the low road at that point. You made a response to a previous post he made by accusing him of blowing up a thread knowing it would illicit a response. You fired a salvo at him, he came back with that. I simply see it as a spat between two people who really disagree with each other strongly here.


----------



## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

wmn1 said:


> Some people speak as though they are advising you but many are only trying to help. Like EI said, if you don't like what they say, move to the next one. I work in a section of 20 people. 15 I know have been screwed over in some capacity. Of the other 5, there could be others who have been but won't speak about it. I do know 2 who have never been but one is one of the most intelligent, street smart and cunning people I have ever met. I would go to him for advice before relying on the others who have been through betrayal because he has seen it with people close to him, he knows what they did to beat it, and he adds a third person perspective which doesn't tie emotions or baggage to situations and helped one of the other guys through an affair he endured last year. So again I strongly disagree with you and your assessment over who has a 'right' as opposed to not having a 'right'.


Will agree to disagree with you wmn1. 

There is only one poster in this forum I have taken to task over the crap she was spewing. And that was because she would talk out of both sides of her mouth. She has been banned so I think that speaks for it self.


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

loyallad said:


> Will agree to disagree with you wmn1.
> 
> There is only one poster in this forum I have taken to task over the crap she was spewing. And that was because she would talk out of both sides of her mouth. She has been banned so I think that speaks for it self.


no problem. 

I don't remember that one poster ouy are referring too. 

Funny thing is that this thread here is becoming like the testosterone thread. I think it's time for me to move on to another one


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Isn't that the thing though? If you don't like the "tributaries" MOVE ON to another thread. If you can't be helpful, try to MOVE ON to another thread!


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

wmn1 said:


> I thought Vellocet was taking the high road with that statement. You should not assume, though, that I mean you were on the low road at that point. You made a response to a previous post he made by accusing him of blowing up a thread knowing it would illicit a response. You fired a salvo at him, he came back with that. I simply see it as a spat between two people who really disagree with each other strongly here.


Re-read what he wrote again. 

"That's OUR opinion and you're entitled to it."

If that's taking the high road, I'd hate to see the low one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Is there a new meaning to anal-retentive? The man has been banned, is that not enough?


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> The debates/arguments are mind numbing and totally detract from anything that an OP needs help with. It's pretty disheartening that people sometimes pick out one thing they don't agree with in someone's post and as you said a topic will get side tracked for countless posts due to the egos bickering back and forth. Reminds me a lot of my 8 year old.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Regret, do you see how easily it is to detract from the main point of the thread. No snarkiness is intended here. But this thread no longer addresses the main point of Mr. Blunt's post.


----------



## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> One only need to look at the Wayward thread from a few weeks ago. It was started in an attempt to give wayward spouses a "safe" place to openly discuss issues that we deal with. Instead it turned into a thread with over 2,900 posts questioning whether waywards were good parents or whether or not Rookie was actually a wayward instead of a betrayed.
> 
> I agree with loyallad in that a lot of thread jackers just type to read their own words. However, it also seems that far too many just can't let their ego go long enough to let someone else's opinion sink in before retorting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I agree a WS should have a safe place to discuss why they cheated.

But...if a thread is started and it's message warns of " haters" it's not sincere. This is a passive aggressive invitation to lump anyone into a "hater" category who is opposed to deceit. 

If I were a cheater, it would be music to my ears to be warned against those who do not treat me with kid gloves. 

Sure, people make poor choices, but to punish those who are forthright and don't sugar coat poor choices are the ones who are labeled as "haters" seems irresponsible. 

It's a back door straw tactic to change the narrative. Real growth comes from being able to handle the hard questions without setting up an obviously stacked argument.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Pluto, it would've been better if you'd used a quote where I didn't address Mr. Blunt's topic. Yes, I totally turned to the topic of me being the attacker while vell is thought to be taking the high road. This is why threads get derailed I think. All I did was point out a fact of another thread, which it turns out, is the exact thread Mr. Blunt was thinking of. I gave the same stats that he did and I was basically told I was wrong.

That vell is banned isn't the topic. Why he was...well, that can be a whole new one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I think you missed the irony. 
The quote shows your agreement with Mr. Blunt's stated topic. You pretty much admit to contributing to the derailment. The whys between you and any other poster are irrelevant.


----------



## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok. Point taken.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Originally Posted by Mr Blunt 
It seems that the main reason that some threads get so many posts are that some posters like to point out how another poster’s post is wrong. I can understand how that would be helpful in a few cases to a point but do we get so caught up in debating each others posts that we fail to give information to the main point?

A poster will make a point then another poster will take the opposite view or disagree with the first poster then they spend days pointing out errors in each other’s posts. The debate becomes so dominate that the main issue becomes secondary or ignored.

*Do those personal debates that go on for days detract from the main issue of the thread?*



> *BY Served Cold*
> To *force* a thread to adhere to a described objective is underhanded. Discussion and debate is fluid as long as it is respectful. I've had my own threads, and I never *threatened* to report anyone who's views differed for my own.
> 
> No offence , but this thread is not helpful and passive aggressive.


*No Offense but your post above has very little relevance to my main point.*

The reason I say that is, you mention “force’ and “threatened” in your post above but those words have no relevance to my thread. There is no “force” or “threaten” in my post.

My post that you quoted asked the question
*



“Do those personal debates that go on for days detract from the main issue of the thread?’

Click to expand...

*You avoided the main question and spoke of words such as force and threatened that are not relevant to the question.

*My main point in this thread is that posters that debate each other for DAYS and DAYS, about a subject that is not helping the OP or addressing the topic specifically, take the main issue off course and it becomes secondary or ignored.*

I can understand debating off topics points where one disagrees for a few posts but for days and days is a bit much and detracts from the main topic!!!


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> Why does this sound pompous? How many WSs actually help BSs here on TAM? 2? What about the other WSs who come here? Some come for their daily narcissistic IV dose, getting high on how their infidelity can wreak havoc on another person's life or to learn how BSs collect evidence?
> 
> No I will not hero-worship WSs who saw "the light". If you are going to help someone, do so from your heart with no expectations, if you have a heart and most WSs don't. Threads take on a life of their own, each one is unique and ends that way. Who cares if there are tributaries along the river? The point is we all get to share each other's pain and help each other to cope. I have yet to see anyone else fully understand the plight of a BS, other than another BS.


For the record, I am a BS.


There use to be more than 2 here.

I think we should take all input and give respect. Not too much to ask for.


----------



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

jim123 said:


> For the record, I am a BS.
> 
> 
> There use to be more than 2 here.
> ...


You are a BS...And? I am moving on to another thread where I can be helpful. This one has now made me :sleeping: Bye thread.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> LOL. Okay.
> 
> I'd be curious as to your interpretation of "That's our opinion and you're entitled to it".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No interpretation needed.

It was a typo. I meant to say that it was YOUR opinion, of me, and you were entitled to it. I was being civil. I tend to type fast.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

I figured there'd be crickets chirping after that explanation.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Hmmm... well that was an interesting ride.

Almost like a family sitting around a big dinner table and three or four different arguments all swirling at one time until everyone gets tired of bickering. 

I'm ok with quick side jaunts but the verbal battles that last forever get super boring to me and I do worry about the OP feeling shoved to the side.

Yet at the same time I have also noticed threads set up from the start as "bait."


----------

