# Where’s the connection?



## MamaX4

This is my first post and I’m hoping to find some support and wisdom. Sorry it’s so looong! Some background: been married for just about 17 years and together with my husband for 19.5. We met when I was 20, he 21. We have 4 children. Youngest is 3, oldest 10. We have always had a dysfunctional marriage though it wasn’t until about 7 years ago that our dysfunction came to light. I had assumed a marginalized roll in our dynamic and he a very paternalistic one. 

He was narcisitic and self centered. I didn’t know any better (I married my mom- family of origin dynamic) and acquiesced to Everthing. I had no sense of self and he ruled. I started to become aware of the dysfunction and started therapy- since according to him I had the issues and if I just fixed them we’d be fine. I then got pregnant with baby #3. I was in therapy all throughout and after but he refused to participate and join me. It was all my issue. I started to get stronger but not enough. I still acquiesced in order to feel love/approval/acceptance. 

Then he started pushing for baby #4. I didnt want it. I knew we had problems and a baby wouldnt fix them. I tried to resist but the emotional and verbal abuse was awful. I didn’t believe I could handle it. It wasn’t the life I wanted. He still refused Counceling. I used Counceling To negotiate but he said I couldnt talk about the baby or his drinking. 

Eventually I rationalized giving in. I thought that it was the only way to save our family- we already had three children- I’d want a fourth IF our marriage (or another) was healthy....it was a dark time for me... I stayed in therapy, took meds, burried myself in distractions. After the baby things continued to go downhill but his drinking got worse. He blamed this on me too. Of course I was distant and not connected. I didn’t have a partner and he refused to see his roll. He was an abusive bully, a paternalist narcissist and an alcoholic. I had no view of myself outside of the gaslighting and the image he painted of me. I stayed in therapy. 

I got stronger. And then I met someone. I fell hard. Mostly emotional-no sex- but something I had never experienced. I saw myself as I never had before. And after one more night of too much to drinking I said I wanted a divorce. He panicked. He went into fight mode and dug in. Immediately started therapy. Insisted on couples Counceling. I don’t know how to react. I was completely shocked....disconnected and didn’t love him...but I loved my family. I stuck around and though he tried to address his issues we continued to play out or dynamic for the next year as we tried to figure stuff out. 

I had a really hard time cutting off all ties to my EA. (For what it’s worth my EA lasted for maybe 4/5 months intensely and he went to mostly text and the once every couple months coffee- even after my husband found out.) of course When my husband found out, things got more complicated- I felt guilty and like I owed it to him to fix things. There were times when I saw his deep hurt and I hurt with him. Fast forward two years...we are still married. I’m more invested but still not so connected. It doesn’t feel as awful as it did a year ago but still. And to make matters worse, I still think of my EA...every.single.day. I haven’t seen him in almost a year or texted/spoken in months. 

My marriage/relationship feels status quo.my husband, however, had moved mountains. He is a totally different partner and would do anything for our relationship or family...I may have to push a bit, but he is a real partner now. And he loves me dearly...I may not feel his love but I trust it’s there. Me in the other hand....I’m kinda stuck in the past. I don’t know what love is supposed to feel like or what a healthy long term relationship looks or feels like (horribly dysfuntional model from my family of origin). So I’m left to wonder.

Where is our connection. How can it come back and start to over power the still very strong feeling I have for my EA. I feel so stupid clinging onto this fantasy when I have a beautiful life, four amazing children who I love to the moon and back, and husband who dedicates his life to his family and me.


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## Tron

If you can break up that block of text into paragraphs that would be wonderful.


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## MamaX4

It is quite the ramble...sorry. If I can figure out how to edit it, I will


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## Rob_1

Your EA is not real. It is a romantized view of what you as a woman an a human being would love things to be in your emotional life with a man. Visualize it this way: say, you and your EA guy get together and start to live life as a couple. Do you think that real life with this guy would be awesome and great once you are having to live the reality a a daily life? Do you think that at a basic level this guy is not going to start resenting your children? Remember we are not talking about one or two.

I am not saying that in reality after all that has gone down with your husband you are not done, you could be; regardless of his turn-around. It could be that you are done, but still your EA is an idealized romantic view of what you've been yearning.

You need to think long and hard if at this junction in your life, leaving your husband would be a better outlook for your life and that of your children. Do you think you still love your husband? If not, then why stay?

But if you decide that you not longer have any emotional attachment to your husband, then end the marriage, but alone. Take some time on your own, without any romantic/emotional attachment to anyone so that eventually, after some time you would have a clear and sure path to your future with another person.

Wishing you a happy fullfilled 
future any way you choose.


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## MamaX4

Thank you for such a clear response. You are right on all levels and sometimes I feel like I just need a push (and some support from people who "get it") to stick it out. I have faith that someday I will look back and feel grateful for working so hard. Thank you.


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## EleGirl

Since your husband has done a lot of work and become a much better person, husband and father, it seems that there might be something good here to save.

How many hours a week do you and your husband spend together, doing date-like things, just the two of you alone? The answer to this is very important.

I sugget that you get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them and do the work that they suggest. Then talk to your husband and see if he will read them with you adn do the work togethe with you. You two have come so far. You could not rebuild the love/passion if you both follow what these books say to do.


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## StarFires

The books that were suggested are really great, but I don't think that what you need will be found in a book. I think you're still in the fog of your affair, and there isn't anything your husband or a book could do or say that will get you out of that fog. You did the right thing to cut contact with your affair partner, and now you're doing the right thing to stay in your marriage. But none of that helps to show you what you're missing, which is nothing really. You're not missing anything at all. But, as the old folks used to say, you're going to have to pay for your lessons in life.

Cruelty is a human characteristic and everyone has that trait in them. If a person gets away with being abusive in whatever their form of abuse, then they will be and continue to be abusive in that manner. Think about all the men who have been exposed for their sexual abuses in the workplace, in the television arena, and in Hollywood. They got away with it the first time, so they did it again, continued to get away with it and so continued to do it. People have bosses who are mean to them and abuse their power and authority. And women have boyfriends/husbands who are abusive. The abuse escalates because they continue to get away with it. I firmly believe because I am living proof that if a woman puts a stop to their man's abuse the first time, he will stop being abusive. And that's what happened in your case. You stopped taking it and made him realize what he had to lose and that someone else wanted you, so he straightened up right nicely. You were kind of lucky that since it had gone on for so long, it's usually too late to put a stop to it, and the attempt to leave/divorce at that kind of late date is when a woman is most in danger of his escalated violence. I think your emotional affair was the main thing that quelled the situation. Were it not for that, your threat to divorce could have caused a very different outcome, one that would have been damaging to your health, if you know what I mean.

But, at this point, you feel emotionally battered and worn down. That in concert with experiencing the kind of positive and affirming attention you needed at the lowest time in your marriage has you still wanting that because you think that was the answer to your needs. But it wasn't. It also has you thinking you can't accept it from your husband because he didn't provide it before. But you can.

I don't want you to think I am, in any way, blaming you for your husband's behavior. I'm just saying you took it, and, therefore, it continued. So in that small way, you contributed to the dynamic, as you admit yourself. He got away with being abusive, so he thought it was a working dynamic. Blaming you for his cruelty and blaming you for his problems provided the perfect vehicle for deflection, so he kept on blaming you to avoid facing his own problems and to avoid having to change anything in himself. But both parties are responsible for contributing to a healthy relationship, and both parties are responsible for the relationship that is not healthy.

As Rob_1 already stated, your infatuation is not real. That guy would have turned into the same kind of man that your husband was. It's a simple case of you thinking the grass was greener just because someone sweet talked you, paid you some positive and affirming attention, and made you feel worthy, worthwhile, and desirable. That's the way it always goes, but the truth lies on the other side of that fence.

As Rob_1 also mentioned, step families are horrible 90% of the time. That's also something people don't know until they become part of one. The insurmountable problems between you and another man regarding your children (and his children if he has any) are mind boggling, and that's not to mention the problems that the former spouses, yours and his, will cause. To give you an idea of what that means, the divorce rate among step families is upward of 70%. It's more than people can bear and is especially hardest on women, the stepmother. Re-creating the family unit by switching out spouses is not possible. It simply doesn't work. You might see a stepfamily that appears to be working, but you're not in it, so you don't know their secret misery.

The fact is that you will not find a better man than the one you have right now. So, you need to find a way for the two of you to reconnect emotionally. Marriage takes work, and this is the work you have to do. I would suggest you and he start over. Begin dating without any sexual obligation. Give yourself time to want him so that you can receive him and the person he represents. I think you need to relieve the pressure so there's no sense of duty. That's what dating feels like. Get to know each other all over again because you've become two very different people now. You can love and want and receive him again. You both have to work at it.

Also, you said he has been going to therapy but didn't mention what therapy it is. Is he going alone, or is it couples counseling? And if it's couple's counseling, you may need to conclude that it isn't working for you, in which case you might have to find another counselor, one that is more capable of helping you rebuild your relationship and bring the two of you together again. Sometimes, you need to start from scratch to rebuild, and then you can go back and work on the past to ensure it doesn't get repeated.

I will also add that if it's the same counselor you had been seeing alone, then you REALLY need to find someone else. I don't see where that counselor was in any way successful in helping you since the only thing that made any difference in you or your marriage was you having an affair. You stated several times that you got stronger, but you really didn't because you never did do anything about your marriage. You just transferred your needs onto someone else, then you finally threatened divorce so that you could be with him.

Or, you can throw it all away so you can scratch your itch in thinking there's someone better out there for you. Learning that there really isn't and destroying your family for the lesson is the price you will have to pay. Some people have to see for themselves and learn their lessons the hard way.


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## NJ2

I had an EA/PA with a coworker at a time when my H had distanced himself from me and the marriage. I had asked cried begged yelled etc in an effort to be "seen". I had told him it would be so wonderful to have a man just look at me when I spoke -that I could fall for someone that easily so deprived of attention and love starved. 

Low and behold some guy does just that- says all the right things and i lose my head over him. It feels like we are soul mates. It feels heady and light and wonderful. This goes on for awhile until I cant stand the guilt, and the difference between my actions and my values. I break up with the OM and commit to making the marriage work......

Unfortunately I felt that shadow of affair intimacy follow me everywhere Why didnt I feel the same with H? He was trying harder, we were spending more time together but it didnt compare to the infatuation of the affair...

Many years later after reading TAM and books- you start to see just how unspecial the relationship was. Chances are very good that OM manipulated your emotions in hopes of eventually getting into your pants- some men will behave like very patient predators- they do and say all the right things-not because they feel them but because this is part of their act. Theyve learned what works and doesnt work. They are snakes in the grass and stupid desparate lonely women fall hard for the players of the world. I think my OM was that. I am disgusted by my behaviour and how it interfered with intimacy between my H and I

Say you think but ahhhhh--yours was a special unicorn....Imagine being married to him, picking up his dirty socks, seeing him pick food out of his teeth, taking a ****, farting in bed, having the flu, arguing (because thats what will happen) being less than loving to your children, being rude and dismissive of you, cheating on you (if they will do t with you they will do it to you) 

After the infatuation chemicals wear off - 2 1/2 years at most with regular contact- much quicker if you are living together-you will look at him and wonder what you saw in him, why you through an H away that worked so hard to change for you.

Now imagine that after all his hard work to become a better partner you have released him and he is dating. See how he would look to someone else- maybe younger, richer, more beautiful than you. How would you feel with him falling hard for this woman? How would you feel when you saw the desire and love in his eyes that he now has for someone else? How would it feel if you wanted him back because you realize the OM was just a silly fantasy you used to escape a bad marriage and held on to it during your good marriage?

Grass is rarely greener once you hop the fence.

IC would help


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## BigToe

I think you feel the way you do because of the past. The way your husband carved out your life for you. You aren't dealing with simple non-compatibility issues, you are dealing with past behavior of his drinking, narcissism, verbal abuse, and being self-centered,...for many years.

It's easy to see the OM as a silly fantasy and ask why you can't put it away, but the fact is your husband's past behavior has worn you down and taken a toll. You describe your marriage today as "status quo" which is interesting considering the change you say your husband has made. That suggests you feel, too little-too late and some damage cannot be undone. Your words also make it sound like you feel trapped. So I can understand your state of mind and why your thoughts continue with the other man.

You say you have been in therapy...have you discussed with them your EA and feelings now? I think you need to if you haven't. You need to talk to someone privately and explore what you felt then and what you are feeling now, in detail. I believe that will help you decide which path you want to follow.


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## Evinrude58

You spice it up with him being a narcissist. He's a drinker--- that alone is reason for divorce. 
All the rest--- I suspect it's whining and blame-shifting so you don't have to feel so guilty about your affair. And if you still think of the OM every day and it lasted so long--- I would be shocked if it weren't physical as you say. And I couldn't care less about what your husband's part is, concerning your affair. You chose that for you, it had nothing to do with him. You should have divorced if all you said was true--- and I'm SURE there are plenty of horrible tales you can tell about his behavior. It wasn't the way you describe on a day to day basis, or you'd have gotten out of the situation. Now that you've done what you've done with another man, it's all over but the crying.

Either way, the emotional affair has utterly destroyed any romantic feelings you ever had for your husband. You've tried to get them back, but as expected, you can't.

My suggestion: divorce him for his own good, even though it will crush him and likely ruin his life in a way. But he'll heal eventually most likely, and move on. And divorce him because you'll never love him again like a wife should love her husband.

Keeping in mind, your fantasy with your affair partner is just that, fantasy. It's all in your head. IF he was a decent person, he wouldn't be messing with a married woman. So I honestly would give those thoughts up. If you pursue him, it will help you because he likely has a new squeeze and will either use you for sex or spurn you totally and you'll forget him. Also, keep in mind that people make mistakes, and you aren't doomed forever for yours. Learn from it and be happy. Sadly, it will be with someone else. And if he still has a drinking problem, you are better off without your husband.

Sorry, it's a messed up situation that men are blind to their own stupidity until it's too late to fix it. And it's a messed up thing that women can flip the switch in an instant when they fall for a new dude. But it is what it is.


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## MichelleThoughts

I have a few questions for you. What did the emotional affair provide for you that your husband doesn't?
How much time do you spend giving undivided attention to each other?

I agree that this EA was a fantasy and the challenges of children can be really hard on the best relationships. 
I am pretty amazed at the change your husband made for the better. It shows that he really cares. I think you owe him to try your best right now. You have to force yourself to STOP thinking about the other man. I imagine it is really hard but your feelings will follow your thoughts. If you keep longing for something you think is better, you will stay unhappy. If you leave your husband you will likely be single or have trouble finding a really high-quality man. I have four children myself and I feel like, if I were to leave, my options would be much more limited by this.

Another question, how is your sex life? I find that increasing the frequency by simply initiating more often is, at least for me, the easiest way to feel emotionally connected again. 

How realistic are your expectations of your husband, do you think? I catch myself sometimes comparing the worst qualities of my husband to the best qualities of other men. Then I feel like they might be better husbands but have to remind myself that my husband is better in other ways that I just take for granted. 

I hope that gives you some ideas. Marriage can be really hard at times and for me I have felt it to be one-sided a lot. But even during our hardest times, if I really asked my husband about how he felt, I often found he felt just as taken for granted.


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## Ab10lah

You are still able to feel connected to you EA partner but cannot connect to your husband even after he has worked on himself so much and has changed for the better? 

Seems you don't feel guilty or any remorse for your EA and probably felt justified because of your husband's (past) abuse. Perhaps the EA was good in that it served as a knock on the head for your husband and forced him to be a better husband and father, and he also forgave you without consequences. However, You should let go of the past and concentrate on your husband and marriage now that things are as you wish in your home.


And in case you're still in the fog, remember this...


Your EA partner cannot be a person of good character if he was willing to have n affair with a married woman.


He must have moved on himself, after you broke up with him. He is now most likely in love with another woman and isn't thinking about you any more. 


Forgive your husband and give your all to your marriage and family.


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## sunsetmist

*Re: Where’s the connection?*

Your question is "Where is the connection?"

I think it is lost under years of frustration (your long list) and anger at your husband for actually making the turnaround you had been seeking for so long at the very time you no longer wanted it. You had found what seemed to be a new, better connection and now you are to be thwarted yet again. Women NEED connection (and intimacy)--wise men recognize this.

Others have given you wise advice--pick and choose judiciously.


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