# Affair reaction men vs women



## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I see it as the same for both.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I've never seen any difference. I know some websites are more pro reconciliation to the fire and brimstone of TAM, but never any gender qualifications of divorcing over affairs.

That said if one of the participants is causing a dead bedroom, I'm never surprised to hear their partner cheats or is a 'porn addict'. I really have no sympathy for either side in those instances.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Just garden variety double standard and intermediate vainglorious d*ckery.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

snowbum said:


> People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs.


I’ve never seen anyone advise that for a BW here.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I’ve read men here ask the betrayed woman if they gained weight, are too vanilla, dress up. Many instances of that advice


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Really the only truly different advice I have seen offered between the two genders in regards to infidelity is years ago on the Dr Laura Schlesinger radio show, Dr Laura would tell people that if they know a woman’s husband was cheating her to tell her.

Yet she would tell people that knew of a woman cheating on her husband to NOT tell him. 

She was called out on this disparity many times.

Her rational was that since women are typically the primary caregivers and homemakers, that she should be made aware of an affair so she can make preparations in case he was preparing to leave her and the kids for the OW.

She further rationalized it that most women will give more consideration to reconciliation and trying to keep the family together and to try to bust up the affair and keep the WH in the family home and providing for the children rather than taking off with the OW and abandoning the kids.

Her rational for NOT telling the BH of the WW’s affair is men are more prone to react violently upon finding out, in which case he could be hauled to jail, the WW would leave and he would be denied access to the children due to his violent outburst. and a BH more likely to kick a WW out thus splitting up the family and since women were more likely to be awarded custody back then, disclosing a female affair had a higher likelihood of negatively impacting the children. 

Her arguments were that disclosure of a female affair had a much higher likelihood of a negative impact to the children than disclosure of a male affair.

I need to make clear I DISAGREE with that rational myself and think men and women are both equally entitled to be made aware of the state of their marriage.

I am just saying that is the only time I have ever heard a clear and significant double standard in how the two genders are dealt with in an affair.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Are more women seemingly tolerant of it? My gut seems to tell me that's the case, but that's a personal thing with the particular individual, rather than any type of double standard....I have also heard of cases where women seem to think its forgivable for a guy that was using another woman for sex, as "he knows who his real woman is and you were only a cheap lay"....

Guys don't generally do this....But I would imagine that some do....I have read many stories on here where a guy is willing to accept that his wife stepped out...and willing to forgive...

Some cultures even in this day, seem to look the other way when a guy is banging someone else....I don't know why it is, but it is...Seen that as well....Again, rather than some conspiracy against women,, its just one of those things...

All that said, this society in general(IME) is much more sympathetic towards women when it comes to this stuff...When its a guy "he's a dog or a pig" when it's a woman "she was neglected and emotionally abandoned".....I have known more than one guy who after being turned away by their wives sexually for eons, when they finally cheat or leave, they were written off by all their friends and even some family...

*It takes all types and people are often very variable....What YOU do with your life, and what YOU are willing to tolerate is all that matters in the end...*


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Topic came up a few years ago here. I told my wife that it would be difficult but I‘d work hard on forgiving her and try to keep us together. Like the song, we are “only human.” She said she’s not sure she could forgive me. interesting. (28 yrs married)


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## Sparky282 (11 mo ago)

In some ways there are no differences. Both are extremely harmful and there are exceptions on both sides so it’s hard to make a general rule. There does seem to be two big differences. 

Women's cheating seems to be more dangerous (not that mens is not dangerous) for 2 reasons.

women seem to have a harder time letting go of the affair partner as well as dealing with the consequences of their actions.

tell a cheating man he can no longer have female friends and generally he does not care as much. That is one example. Or that his phone needs to be open. Oh well you look at my dumb YouTube videos, taking about sports and video games with his friends, and some porn. Not the end of the world. Women don’t want men to see their every thought when they are talking to friends and family.

The other difference cheating women tend to leave their husbands more than cheating men leave their wives. You can see it in all the stories here and other places. Also it’s in a lot of the mainstream books as well as the opinions of the main stream counselors.

in ester perel “state of affairs” she does not say it explicitly but when she gives 2 examples of marriages that stayed together after infidelity it’s 2 cheating husbands. When she uses an example of a divorced marriages, she uses 1 and it’s a cheating wife.

also the women really seem to have a hard time letting go and continuing contact with the AP. As well as seem to have a hard time with the grieving process with pisses the husband off even more making reconciliation so much harder.

could be wrong but that seems to be a pattern.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> Are more women seemingly tolerant of it? My gut seems to tell me that's the case, but that's a personal thing with the particular individual, rather than any type of double standard....I have also heard of cases where women seem to think its forgivable for a guy that was using another woman for sex, as "he knows who his real woman is and you were only a cheap lay"....
> 
> Guys don't generally do this....But I would imagine that some do....I have read many stories on here where a guy is willing to accept that his wife stepped out...and willing to forgive...
> 
> ...


.
True. And when a guy gets cheated on and stays, he becomes a cuckold. A woman has no such label.

And when a WW cheats there is a whole basket of non flattering terms thrown that at her that men mostly escape.

There are double standards to cheating as many other things, but this place seems mostly egalitarian in its treatment. Men mostly help men who get cheated on and women help women. Because honestly it's different for each sex in how they internalize it. With BWs its more the emotional aspect. With BHs its always the physical aspect.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I think women are equally disgusted by the physical. Fame over for me.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

well I think a woman comes on and makes a post saying she needs advices ,
the second post she tells us she had an affair often we act as if he was neglecting her and she had every right ,
a man makes a post saying he was in a sex less marriage we tell him to be more romantic 
and a guy posts his wife is talking to other men we say , man up be an alpha man the alpha man gets wheeled out often , like a fix all 
and not to talk about the guys we call cuckold without knowing anything about them , just a few of our tool bag responses


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## Alittlelost57 (May 8, 2019)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


I post here infrequently and so I'm not a regular or really connected to anyone here. Maybe that makes me objective? 

I think you have a case, but you're overstating it. I don't see much excuse making for men who cheat. When it happens there's pretty strong push back. I do agree that women who cheat are especially pilloried, mostly by men but sometimes by women.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Not really. My advice is always the same. Not gender specific.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read men here ask the betrayed woman if they gained weight, are too vanilla, dress up. Many instances of that advice


Of course women are asked if they’ve gained excessive weight, continually refused sex with their husband, lost attraction for their husband and acting accordingly, etc.
Because that is relevant information as to the environment that the cheating occurred in.
It’s not an excuse, not a justification for their H cheating, but it’s relevant context as to the state of the marital dynamics that the cheating occurred in.

Just like men are often asked if they have allowed themselves to become out of shape, passive, boring and unattractive. Men are often asked about the power/leadership dynamic in their marriage.
Again, not that it justifies there W cheating but it’s important context that’s relevant to the environment and dynamics in their current marriage, and will be relevant to future relationships if/when they divorce and move on. And also relevant if they choose to try to reconcile.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Oh goodie!! Another man bashing thread!!

"Grabs popcorn"


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

What’s bashing about stating men usually are out end of story but want wife to try again because they just enjoyed sex elsewhere ?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Well that's just bad advice and not typical here for both men and women. When it does happen, I think this comes from an older way of thinking that is still stuck on the idea Women need men for financial security, which really isn't a factor anymore. This old fashion thinking really doesn't fit a lot of the dynamics of a typical relationships today. 

Still given that women often end up as the children's primary caretaker by default, they do have more to risk. Not saying it's right but it is a fact.

Also having read these sites for years now, I have grown to believe women are more practical when it comes to romantic relationships. Men tend to be more extreme. Lot's of men particularly inexperienced ones tend to see their partners like angels, other worldly creatures that are irreplaceable. I think it's a rare women that is into her man that much. Maybe it's because most women have a lot more options open to them, particularly if they are attractive. They are the pursued. 

The consequence of this though seems to be men who get extremely almost catatonic when they are cheated on. Guys who severely overate their cheating spouses value. Where as women seem a lot stronger. So I think some of the "hard sell" so to speak is because of these men's inaction, and delusion. It's even possible people are willing to be a lot harsher with their advice when it's to a man as opposed to a women.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

snowbum said:


> What’s bashing about stating men usually are out end of story but want wife to try again because they just enjoyed sex elsewhere ?


Men are usually out?! I could point to about 6 running thread on other sites where the guys are like groveling dogs as their wives repeatedly abuse them. It's rare when you see women who are that pathetic.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


What I typically see is when the man cheats, he still does everything in his power to keep his wife. When a woman cheats, she usually chooses the affair partner (but keeps husband on the hook until she can ascertain AP wants to keep her)


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

sokillme said:


> Men are usually out?! I could point to about 6 running thread on other sites where the guys are like groveling dogs as their wives repeatedly abuse them. It's rare when you see women who are that pathetic.


That is what I see mostly...weak, pathetic men. How boys are being raised nowadays


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

I personally believe that true happy marriages can overcome an affair from either wife or a husband. People who love each other can forgive. If you are ready to give up your marriage and your love because if just one mistake then you do not love your parnter.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I don’t remember seeing a different treatment, to be honest.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I personally believe that true happy marriages can overcome an affair from either wife or a husband. People who love each other can forgive. If you are ready to give up your marriage and your love because if just one mistake then you do not love your parnter.


We’ll, at least you are aptly named with your choice of handle.

There is so much ridiculously wrong in this short post, I’m not even going to try. You won’t understand.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> We’ll, at least you are aptly named with your choice of handle.
> 
> There is so much ridiculously wrong in this short post, I’m not even going to try. You won’t understand.


Many years ago my wife and I had discussion about affairs, and she told me without my asking or any pretext that she would forgive me if I had an affair. I never gave her any smallest reason to doubt my faithfulness to her but I felt and still feel very good that my wife would be able to forgive me if I mad some stupid mistake. It only made my love for her even stronger. I would have felt completely different if she told me upfront that our marriage is over if ever have an affair.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Many years ago my wife and I had discussion about affairs, and she told me without my asking or any pretext that she would forgive me if I had an affair. I never gave her any smallest reason to doubt my faithfulness to her but I felt and still feel very good that my wife would be able to forgive me if I mad some stupid mistake. It only made my love for her even stronger. I would have felt completely different if she told me upfront that our marriage is over if ever have an affair.


Why? Do you feel your marriage should have a hall pass?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


It’s not as easy for most people who are cheated on to have the wherewithal to say “game over”. That’s what everyone thinks they will do right up until it happens to them. That’s why this place in invaluable for people who are in shock and need guidance. 

I have seen 2 or 3 specific guys encourage a BW to sl#t it up or encourage an open marriage instead of being upset. But those idiots are mostly banned now and were called out on it at the time. 

I specifically never was told anything like that, though a few people insinuated I had responsibility for being cheated on in a few threads, I had no problem telling them they had their head in their butt. 

I don’t think we can generalize the kind of advice that comes through, especially by sex. If anything I would more generalize that men seem to be total jerks to some BH on here and BW are mostly left alone by the male population. But that could just be a season, skewed viewpoint on my part, or a glitch in the matrix. I dunno. But I don’t see a pattern of what you’re describing here, I’m actually surprised by it.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Why? Do you feel your marriage should have a hall pass?


I told you I never gave my wife any reason to doubt my love for her and my faithfulness. I am.noy even aroused by any woman except her. But I feel very good that the woman I love so much would not dump me or be ready to destroy our marriage if I hypothetically made some mistake. I I do absolutely believe her she would have forgiven me. 

I believe only truly strong marriage can withstand betrayal.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I told you I never gave my wife any reason to doubt my love for her and my faithfulness. I am.noy even aroused by any woman except her. But I feel very good that the woman I love so much would not dump me or be ready to destroy our marriage if I hypothetically made some mistake. I I do absolutely believe her she would have forgiven me.
> 
> I believe only truly strong marriage can withstand betrayal.


I don’t understand statements of blanket forgiveness when you don’t even understand the parameters of what’s being forgiven. I guarantee if you engaged in a 18 month “mistake” and knocked up your AP, or had an affinity for male hookers she would rethink that blanket statement of forgiveness and reconciliation. But if you’re a decent man and wouldn’t cheat regardless than the point is moot and you can just take it at face value for a proclamation of love. 

I don’t believe any spouse should act like they will tolerate acts of betrayal, lies and disrespect as a proclamation of love… I think it sets a very dangerous precedent for the relationship. But I understand the situation may have been just a light hearted conversation and you were discussing what ifs. I’m not picking at you, I’m just saying… that’s a strange thing to say to your spouse, and quite naïve. 

Many marriages can withstand betrayal though. There is evidence of very rough and unhappy reconciliations everywhere. On this forum as well.

Sorry if this is a threadjack OP


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t understand statements of blanket forgiveness when you don’t even understand the parameters of what’s being forgiven. I guarantee if you engaged in a 18 month “mistake” and knocked up your AP, or had an affinity for male hookers she would rethink that blanket statement of forgiveness and reconciliation. But if you’re a decent man and wouldn’t cheat regardless than the point is moot and you can just take it at face value for a proclamation of love.
> 
> I don’t believe any spouse should act like they will tolerate acts of betrayal, lies and disrespect as a proclamation of love… I think it sets a very dangerous precedent for the relationship. But I understand the situation may have been just a light hearted conversation and you were discussing what ifs. I’m not picking at you, I’m just saying… that’s a strange thing to say to your spouse, and quite naïve.
> 
> ...


Agree. A blackout drunk escapade at 22 is far different than a hook up with a 35 year old coworker. I don’t buy into accidents


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

snowbum said:


> Agree. A blackout drunk escapade at 22 is far different than a hook up with a 35 year old coworker. I don’t buy into accidents


“I accidentally penetrated your sister 756 times this year and I’m in love!” Is probably not going to fly, even with the most tolerant of wives. Some things just shouldn’t ever be reconciled.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Agree. A blackout drunk escapade at 22 is far different than a hook up with a 35 year old coworker. I don’t buy into accidents


I have a problem with affairs being referred to "accidents" or "mistakes." (I'm not saying you are referring to them as such, btw, just that I have heard them described in such a way quite often.) I don't ever see them that way. A mistake is unintentional. Even IF someone is high or inebriated and does something they wouldn't do while sober, it may make a difference as far as intent, but the end result is the same. The damage is the same. The risks are the same. The trust is destroyed the same. And the putting oneself in a situation where his or her judgement is impaired is not a mistake; unless a person is drugged by someone else, the breaking down of those boundaries is entirely controllable and preventable. That part is NOT unintentional.


Sorry, just one of my pet peeves. I think people who refer to infidelity in the above terms are using that language to minimize the responsibility of the wayward spouse and/or the damage done.

(I apologize if this is also a thread jack.)


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> I have a problem with affairs being referred to "accidents" or "mistakes." (I'm not saying you are referring to them as such, btw, just that I have heard them described in such a way quite often.) I don't even see them that way. A mistake is unintentional. Even IF someone is high or inebriated and does something they wouldn't do while sober, it may make a difference as far as intent, but the end result is the same. The damage is the same. The risks are the same. The trust is destroyed the same. And the putting oneself in a situation where his or her judgement is impaired is not a mistake; unless a person is drugged by someone else, the breaking down of those boundaries is entirely controllable and preventable.
> 
> Sorry, just one of my pet peeves. I think people who refer to infidelity in the above terms is using that language to minimize the responsibility of the wayward spouse and/or the damage done.
> 
> (I apologize if this is also a thread jack.)


But they never meant it to happen. That’s what really matters. 🤣


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t understand statements of blanket forgiveness when you don’t even understand the parameters of what’s being forgiven. I guarantee if you engaged in a 18 month “mistake” and knocked up your AP, or had an affinity for male hookers she would rethink that blanket statement of forgiveness and reconciliation. But if you’re a decent man and wouldn’t cheat regardless than the point is moot and you can just take it at face value for a proclamation of love.
> 
> I don’t believe any spouse should act like they will tolerate acts of betrayal, lies and disrespect as a proclamation of love… I think it sets a very dangerous precedent for the relationship. But I understand the situation may have been just a light hearted conversation and you were discussing what ifs. I’m not picking at you, I’m just saying… that’s a strange thing to say to your spouse, and quite naïve.
> 
> ...


Again, I believe strong marriages can withstand one time betrayal. And I am very happy my wife would forgive me if I had such one time mistake. I would feel very different about our marriage and it would affect my love for her if she told me it is over if I have any affair. Obviously affairs are different and some are easier to forgive than others.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> But they never meant it to happen. That’s what really matters. 🤣


Yes, as if it's the same as, "Oops, sorry, didn't see you there!" as you bump into your spouse. "Oops, sorry, I forgot I was married and had promised you sexual and emotional exclusivity!" 🤔


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Again, I believe strong marriages can withstand one time betrayal. And I am very happy my wife would forgive me if I had such one time mistake. I would feel very different about our marriage and it would affect my love for her if she told me it is over if I have any affair. Obviously affairs are different and some are easier to forgive than others.


So she would literally forgive you for sleeping with someone because she “loves you” that much, but if she said she couldn’t forgive you if you betray her… that’s going affect how much you love her? 🤔

Ok I won’t threadjack anymore. You do you.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> Oh goodie!! Another man bashing thread!!
> 
> "Grabs popcorn"


You have to admit, we were due for another one. Things were becoming too peaceful around here.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> So she would literally forgive you for sleeping with someone because she “loves you” that much, but if she said she couldn’t forgive you if you betray her… that’s going affect how much you love her? 🤔
> 
> Ok I won’t threadjack anymore. You do you.


Yes. By the way I would have forgiven her too.

I am very happy that we both see our marriage as something so strong that can survive one time affair. Obviously an affair is tragedy, it brings a lot of pain. But strong marriage should be able to withstand it. It is like a ship that should crumble with the first strong storm.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Again, I believe strong marriages can withstand one time betrayal. And I am very happy my wife would forgive me if I had such one time mistake. I would feel very different about our marriage and it would affect my love for her if she told me it is over if I have any affair. Obviously affairs are different and some are easier to forgive than others.


I find your perspective on this both simplistic / childlike / naïve - and simultaneously toxic and devoid of integrity.

An affair is not a mistake, it is a choice. A disrespectful, contemptful, destructive choice. 

Blanket forgiveness of something as egregious as a marital/sexual betrayal is not a show of love, it’s an indication of neediness, weakness and a lack of personal dignity.

It is a deep betrayal. You even use the word betrayal number of times, but do not seem to have any understanding of the implications of that word.

“only strong marriages can survive a betrayal“ is a foolish statement. 
If one spouse is willing to consciously and brutally betray their partner and violate one of the core primary vows of their relationship, the marriage was NOT strong.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


I've advised a lot of women to leave if they can.

I definitely disagree with the "porn it up" advice.😡


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I personally believe that true happy marriages can overcome an affair from either wife or a husband. People who love each other can forgive. If you are ready to give up your marriage and your love because if just one mistake then you do not love your parnter.


Truly happy marriages don't involve infidelity BTW.

P.S. I will always love my wife for my entire life but would not remain married if she had an affair unless it was specific circumstances.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> I find your perspective on this both simplistic / childlike / naïve - and simultaneously toxic and devoid of integrity.
> 
> An affair is not a mistake, it is a choice. A disrespectful, contemptful, destructive choice.
> 
> ...


No, you are wrong. There are no marriages with absolutely no flaws or mistakes. I love my wife. But there have been few instances when I said something bad to her. It was said in a moment, I regret it a lot. Should now my wife adopt a "zero fault" policy and divorce me because I said few times in our 25 years of marriage something bad or hurtful? So what if now instead of saying something bad I had one time fling? What's fundamentally different?

No, strong marriage and true love carry forgiveness. Without forgiveness there is no love.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, you are wrong. There are no marriages with absolutely no flaws or mistakes. I love my wife. But there have been few instances when I said something bad to her. It was said in a moment, I regret it a lot. Should now my wife adopt a "zero fault" policy and divorce me because I said few times in our 25 years of marriage something bad or hurtful? So what if now instead of saying something bad I had one time fling? What's fundamentally different?
> 
> No strong marriage and true love carry forgiveness. Without forgiveness there is no love.


There is some truth in what you say. 

Conversely, there is also no love without respect for boundaries. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, you are wrong. There are no marriages with absolutely no flaws or mistakes. I love my wife. But there have been few instances when I said something bad to her. It was said in a moment, I regret it a lot. Should now my wife adopt a "zero fault" policy and divorce me because I said few times in our 25 years of marriage something bad or hurtful? So what if now instead of saying something bad I had one time fling? What's fundamentally different?
> 
> No, strong marriage and true love carry forgiveness. Without forgiveness there is no love.


Wait, are you seriously equating saying some mean words now and then to your spouse - with having an affair with another person which betrays them romantically and sexually, breaking all the core tenants of your marital commitment to each other? Really?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

There’s currently a poster here who can’t be bothered being married or putting in an effort, and his wife is actually telling him why she won’t have sex, and what she needs to have sex… and he still can’t be bothered. And I’m stunned by some of the advice from the men he’s getting. She’s clearly telling him and he makes zero effort. Yes there is sadly a double standard for affairs and dead bedrooms. I too see that women have it much harder. Yes, in some ways, we’re really just taught to porn it up, no matter how little emotional effort the man is putting in


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Again, I believe strong marriages can withstand one time betrayal. And I am very happy my wife would forgive me if I had such one time mistake. I would feel very different about our marriage and it would affect my love for her if she told me it is over if I have any affair. Obviously affairs are different and some are easier to forgive than others.


Sooooooo.......

It sounds like you are preparing for your one mistake. Like you've got your mistake picked out a ready to go. Then you can go tell your wife you made your 1 mistake after you are done having sex with the mistake.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> There’s currently a poster here who can’t be bothered being married or putting in an effort, and his wife is actually telling him why she won’t have sex, and what she needs to have sex… and he still can’t be bothered. And I’m stunned by some of the advice from the men he’s getting. She’s clearly telling him and he makes zero effort. Yes there is sadly a double standard for affairs and dead bedrooms. I too see that women have it much harder. Yes, in some ways, we’re really just taught to porn it up, no matter how little emotional effort the man is putting in


Somehow I've missed these threads - both infidelity and dead bedroom. I see the same advice being given to both men and women, especially from the TAM regulars. That doesn't mean there aren't women hating assholes and men hating feminists here. Those are the ones that typically stick out. 

Problem is every time one of these man hating threads pop up and a question like, "why is it different for men compared to women?" It will be in reference to maybe 1-2 threads and maybe 1-3 men are making the bad comments. 

Maybe. 


But then somehow all the men are giving women bad advice to stay with their cheating husbands....... yeah, not buying it. 

I do however notice a very interesting pattern in the dead bedroom threads. We tend to "police our own" here. I despise all spouses that create dead bedrooms they are terrible and selfish and probably shouldn't have gotten married if they can't have sex with their spouse. But do you know the ones that I despise the most? The men. Men that can't properly F their wives. Wives that want sex and go out of their way to get some from their husbands. I can't stand these men. In fact, I don't consider them men at all. I hammer on these men far more than the women that cause dead bedrooms. And you know what? I see the same thing from women. Women that have suffered from dead bedrooms tend to be far more harsh on women that create dead bedrooms.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Again, I believe strong marriages can withstand one time betrayal. And I am very happy my wife would forgive me if I had such one time mistake. I would feel very different about our marriage and it would affect my love for her if she told me it is over if I have any affair. Obviously affairs are different and some are easier to forgive than others.


Good for you. I’d be extremely happy and content to kick my cheating husbands ass out after affair #1


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Good for you. I’d be extremely happy and content to kick my cheating husbands ass out after affair #1


Youre right. You should have the strength to keep it zipped and not cheat, that’s a strong marriage don’t you think?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Wait, are you seriously equating saying some mean words now and then to your spouse - with having an affair with another person which betrays them romantically and sexually, breaking all the core tenants of your marital commitment to each other? Really?


As a person whose life has been ripped apart due to infidelity, it blows my mind how people are so casual about the concept. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

As to @romantic_dreamer; enjoy the fact you have no idea what you’re talking about. Really. You’re quite lucky to not have experienced being cheated on.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Luckylucky said:


> There’s currently a poster here who can’t be bothered being married or putting in an effort, and his wife is actually telling him why she won’t have sex, and what she needs to have sex… and he still can’t be bothered. And I’m stunned by some of the advice from the men he’s getting. She’s clearly telling him and he makes zero effort. Yes there is sadly a double standard for affairs and dead bedrooms. I too see that women have it much harder. Yes, in some ways, we’re really just taught to porn it up, no matter how little emotional effort the man is putting in


An opinion formed based on one poster. Sounds like confirmation bias to me; wanting to believe women are always the victims therefore looking for evidence to support that bias. I think the advice here has been pretty standard. It is almost like bots are responding with canned lines. Then again some people love self-pity.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

EunuchMonk said:


> An opinion formed based on one poster. Sounds like confirmation bias to me; wanting to believe women are always for victims therefore looking for evidence to support that bias. I think the advice here has been pretty standard. It is almost like bots are responding with canned lines. Then again some people love self-pity.


On the contrary. I won’t support a woman behaving badly.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

what about the poster that had an affair but it stopped short of sex , for me the fact they did not get to the sex has little difference ,as trust is broken and affection had moved , I still call it cheating ,


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Luckylucky said:


> There’s currently a poster here who can’t be bothered being married or putting in an effort, and his wife is actually telling him why she won’t have sex, and what she needs to have sex… and he still can’t be bothered. And I’m stunned by some of the advice from the men he’s getting. She’s clearly telling him and he makes zero effort. Yes there is sadly a double standard for affairs and dead bedrooms. I too see that women have it much harder. Yes, in some ways, we’re really just taught to porn it up, no matter how little emotional effort the man is putting in
> /QUOTE]


I'm not saying who is right or wrong, I didn't read the thread you are referring to and don't care to, but.....

Once you start "telling someone what they need to do" when it comes to the topic of sex, then its already reached the point of "over.".. Once sex becomes transactional, or lacks spontaneity and raw energy, then its lost its value......To me, anyway...I know many may differ, but that's my stance on it...

Anyway, the genders will never seem to see any equity, when it comes to some of this stuff...Everyone thinks the other side has it easier or their side is more victimized...


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Once sex becomes transactional, or lacks spontaneity and raw energy, then its lost its value.....


life is not as movies no more than porn is a good for sex ed,
One study looked at exactly this, finding that of the top 25 video rentals in 1998, unmarried partners represented 85 percent of sexual behaviour compared to 15 percent for married couples. And which do you think were more likely to be engaging in steamy, spontaneous sexual intercourse?

So it’s no surprise that when we compare our real life long-term relationship to these heady scenes we might find them somewhat lacking. Particularly when it comes to spontaneous sex.

It kind of come back all so to if MY WIFE is dressed up extra sexy is sex spontaneous or planned

Sorry in real life a couple don't dress up for dinner every evening and while we work in work ware and when we get in at night have a shower , 99 times out of a hundred we just dress in something clean and not in sexy lingerie and me in shirt and tie , we go to bed and have children in the house so don't have to much sexual undertones while looking at tv or what ever we are diong before going to bed , we still have good sex and I would saw our sex life is better now than ever , 

lack of spontaneous sex is no reason for cheating


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

romantic_dreamer said:


> No, you are wrong. There are no marriages with absolutely no flaws or mistakes. I love my wife. But there have been few instances when I said something bad to her. It was said in a moment, I regret it a lot. Should now my wife adopt a "zero fault" policy and divorce me because I said few times in our 25 years of marriage something bad or hurtful? So what if now instead of saying something bad I had one time fling? What's fundamentally different?
> 
> No, strong marriage and true love carry forgiveness. Without forgiveness there is no love.


I could forgive a drunken one night stand (maybe), but a long term affair? No. There is a limit to what you can forgive.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I could forgive a drunken one night stand (maybe), but a long term affair? No. There is a limit to what you can forgive.


for me the lying and braking trust would be the worst for me the sex not as much


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> for me the lying and braking trust would be the worst for me the sex not as much


yeah


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

frenchpaddy said:


> what about the poster that had an affair but it stopped short of sex , for me the fact they did not get to the sex has little difference ,as trust is broken and affection had moved , I still call it cheating ,


An EA would be hard to get past due to broken trust, but I think I could get past it if spouse did the right things. Sex however would be end of story. No getting past the physical cheating for me.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> An EA would be hard to get past due to broken trust, but I think I could get past it if spouse did the right things. Sex however would be end of story. No getting past the physical cheating for me.


for me I can not be with a person that i don't trust , every time late getting home , if the car brakes down I would think she is at it again , I could not live with that type life


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Many years ago my wife and I had discussion about affairs, and she told me without my asking or any pretext that she would forgive me if I had an affair. I never gave her any smallest reason to doubt my faithfulness to her but I felt and still feel very good that my wife would be able to forgive me if I mad some stupid mistake. It only made my love for her even stronger. I would have felt completely different if she told me upfront that our marriage is over if ever have an affair.


In my book, the love was never there to being with, or it wasn't strong enough if one person has an affair. I've never seen a woman mistakenly open her legs for another man or vice versa.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I see disparate advice around dead bedrooms, but not affairs. As a matter of fact, there was one guy who told a woman that had discovered her husband was cheating that she should offer to have threesomes with the mistress and I believe he was banned for that specific (terrible) advice. The only instance of disparate advice around affairs I've seen is when the WS posts and admits the affair, and the difference is whether or not they show any remorse. A remorseful cheater will still get both barrels, but it's more gentle. Unrepentant cheaters don't generally last very long.


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## Savannah01 (Sep 8, 2021)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Unfortunately it’s that old double standard, there’s so much expected for a woman to change when that happens so that things will “work out “ but when it is the other way around men are expected to drop the women just like that because they dared betray them. I don’t know what it is and why that seems to still be prevalent nowadays but you’re right it is BS!

women are urged to change the way they are , physically and emotionally to suit their partner and yet most of the time no accountability is taken when the men do the betraying … let alone expect to change to make things bette for the wife

what is with that ?!


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

snowbum said:


> Youre right. You should have the strength to keep it zipped and not cheat, that’s a strong marriage don’t you think?


Off topic but why are you replying to yourself?


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## MissBlue (5 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Total double standard. Woman are expected to work on the marriage for the kids and try harder and look better etc. 

Men generally won’t tolerate infidelity and basically won’t tolerate the competition or comparisons in bed. God forbid a man should be told to be a better lover, be more romantic etc. 

personally I say if there is cheating just get a divorce. Yes it’s probably both parties fault why it happened but love starts with self love and respect starts with respecting yourself. Better alone than in bad company


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Maybe in my parents' time it was popular advice to women to endure cheating and work on the marriage but in all my time here I have never seen anyone comment that a woman should just let her husband cheat. If I am wrong and there are posters here saying women should stay despite their husband's affairs, please show me the post.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Maybe in my parents' time it was popular advice to women to endure cheating and work on the marriage but in all my time here I have never seen anyone comment that a woman should just let her husband cheat. If I am wrong and there are posters here saying women should stay despite their husband's affairs, please show me the post.


On popular advice to women in your parents time.

Here is some advice on this, as found in an extremely popular mass circulation Australian women's magazine, called New Idea from May 22, 1971.

A WISE WIFE"S GUIDE

*AN OVERDOSE OF TOGETHERNESS CAN TAKE THE MAGIC OUT OF YOUR MARRIAGE - BETTY WYSON TELLS HOW TO KEEP YOURSELF EXCITINGLY DESIRABLE FOR YOUR MAN!*

...

*COSMETIC CARE*

...

*HUSBAND AND WIFE RELATIONSHIP*

...

*INFIDELITY*

Don't accuse your husband if you suspect him of being unfaithful. He will have to confirm or deny. If he denies, will you believe him?––And if he confirms then what?

Do if you suspect him try to discover why he has strayed. If you have been less attentive and cooperative physically, subtly try to interest him. If he responds, you are on the right track. If you have had something good between you before, there is a good chance of making his outside interest less interesting. You must if you want to keep him. One small indiscretion on his part is not worth risking the marriage for the sake of confrontation. Sometimes what you don't know doesn't hurt you.

Do, however, weigh the alternatives if he makes a habit of affairs. If he remains attentive to you at the same time, decide whether to live with it, or risk a showdown.

Do if you find yourself involved with another man, try for a discreet affair. But give some serious thought to what you want, should your husband find out.

Don't if your affair doesn't last and you and your husband make it up, have a seizure of guilt and confess all to him. It is more selfish than honest to confess an indiscretion, and you have given your husband grounds to doubt you in the future. The shock of your secret, and the possible blow to his male ego might cause him to strike out to hurt you in the same way.

*THE DOMESTIC SCENE*

...

*CHILDREN*

...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Savannah01 said:


> Unfortunately it’s that old double standard, there’s so much expected for a woman to change when that happens so that things will “work out “ but when it is the other way around men are expected to drop the women just like that because they dared betray them. *I don’t know what it is and why that seems to still be prevalent nowadays but *you’re right it is BS!
> 
> women are urged to change the way they are , physically and emotionally to suit their partner and yet most of the time no accountability is taken when the men do the betraying … let alone expect to change to make things bette for the wife
> 
> what is with that ?!


I think it's to do with wounded ego.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> Maybe in my parents' time it was popular advice to women to endure cheating and work on the marriage but in all my time here I have never seen anyone comment that a woman should just let her husband cheat. If I am wrong and there are posters here saying women should stay despite their husband's affairs, please show me the post.


Why don't you just do a search for the word weight and I'm certain you'll find some.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think it's to do with wounded ego.


“What about my penis?”


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


I’ve been a member of this site and other similar ones since 2017 and find no truth in your claims. I’m a male, and personally speaking I’m more inclined to recommend a woman leave a relationship after being cheated on because my b.s.meter is razor sharp from a guy perspective.

Maybe I need to read and comment more on female betrayed spouses! I’m without prejudice when comes to commenting on BS threads. It’s hard for me to accept people not standing up for themselves.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

colingrant said:


> I’ve been a member of this site and other similar ones since 2017 and find no truth in your claims. I’m a male, and personally speaking I’m more inclined to recommend a woman leave a relationship after being cheated on because my b.s.meter is razor sharp from a guy perspective.
> 
> Maybe I need to read and comment more on female betrayed spouses! I’m without prejudice when comes to commenting on BS threads. It’s hard for me to accept people not standing up for themselves.


 i agree cheating is cheating 
and it is cheating if you do anything that you can't show your so called other half 
like sending text or chatting up a co worker telling yourself that it is not cheating because there was not sex is only trying to fool yourself , you are right in the BS 

i don't often give advice because it is only to a poster that is telling the their side 
we often get the one my partner is so bad to me and 6 posts later we get the post saying they culled a co worker but did not cross and boundaries "my eye "


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Savannah01 said:


> Unfortunately it’s that old double standard, there’s so much expected for a woman to change when that happens so that things will “work out “ but when it is the other way around men are expected to drop the women just like that because they dared betray them. I don’t know what it is and why that seems to still be prevalent nowadays but you’re right it is BS!
> 
> women are urged to change the way they are , physically and emotionally to suit their partner and yet most of the time no accountability is taken when the men do the betraying … let alone expect to change to make things bette for the wife
> 
> what is with that ?!


Fascinating how people can see such completely different things.

Not exclusively here on TAM, but across many different discussion areas, it quite often presented that when a man has an affair, he is blasted for having an affair. When a woman has an affair, her husband is blasted for causing her to have an affair.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

samyeagar said:


> Fascinating how people can see such completely different things.
> 
> Not exclusively here on TAM, but across many different discussion areas, it quite often presented that when a man has an affair, he is blasted for having an affair. When a woman has an affair, her husband is blasted for causing her to have an affair.


Hm, I can’t say I’ve seen this either. I think anyone who is wishy-washy and in denial gets a nice slap across the face regardless of what’s between their legs. 

I’ve never heard a man referred to as “the town bicycle” though, and that’s been said many times about a WW. I’m not offended by it, it’s an interesting description. I just wish it was as effective to call out men for being wh0res too though. The town salami slinger just doesn’t have the same impact. Man-Ho and manwh0re is like a compliment. Not fair.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


I have never seen this difference you are reporting. You must be imagining it or going by what someone else said they've seen. That advice isn't here to be found.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read men here ask the betrayed woman if they gained weight, are too vanilla, dress up. Many instances of that advice


That is in response to a dead bedroom, not cheating. ALL cheaters take a beating here, as they should.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I personally believe that true happy marriages can overcome an affair from either wife or a husband. People who love each other can forgive. If you are ready to give up your marriage and your love because if just one mistake then you do not love your parnter.


Cheating isn't a mistake, that is the problem. It is a choice, actually many, many choices a you betray your spouse with every single one of them.

If your wife strikes up a conversation with a male coworker, it progresses and becomes sexual over the course of a month or two, nudes are exchanges, make out sessions at lunch ensue, then come the plans for a hotel while you are out of town or she is supposed to be away for work. She sleeps with him then immediately confesses to you. That is a "mistake" you can forgive?

BTW, reverse the genders and nothing changes.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes. By the way I would have forgiven her too.
> 
> I am very happy that we both see our marriage as something so strong that can survive one time affair. Obviously an affair is tragedy, it brings a lot of pain. But strong marriage should be able to withstand it. It is like a ship that should crumble with the first strong storm.


Your view is very naive. It doesn't give any recognition to the fact that every scenario is different and a generalized blanket statement like this holds no weight in real life, none.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


As a man, I have noticed this also. I agree. Both sides cheat, it's not esclusive to one. I myself believe that if either partner loves the other and wants the relationship to work it makes both to reconcile. Society says men are strong, aggressive and protective other weak women. Bs. We all feel, we all hurt, we all love. Simple as that. Both sides must share in the process of rebuilding. Any relationship with someone we love has to have value and worth fighting for.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Not sure which forums you've been reading other than this one, but this is not what I see here.

Same advice for a betrayed man I'll give to a betrayed woman.

Actually some of the reading I've done here there are some that suggest that if a woman cheats on a man, it's because they man wasn't meeting her needs and the woman should be forgiven, while if a man cheats they shouldn't be forgiven. I read an old thread where the basic theme from the poster's frame of mind was:

Man cheats: he's a dirty dog not deserving to be forgiven

Woman cheats: it's the man's fault and he led her to cheat thus he should forgive her


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> I’ve never heard a man referred to as “the town bicycle” though, and that’s been said many times about a WW. I’m not offended by it, it’s an interesting description. I just wish it was as effective to call out men for being wh0res too though. The town salami slinger just doesn’t have the same impact. Man-Ho and manwh0re is like a compliment. Not fair.


Because men and women are different. It’s not about fair or unfair, it just is.
And while I’m not defending or celebrating male whorishness, sexual dynamics and realities are different for men and women.

It’s takes no effort or for women to sleep around. Almost any woman (even barely marginally attractive, or even slightly unattractive ones) can have sex with a different guy every night just by showing up and saying yes.
It’s actually far easier for a woman to be promiscuous, then to not be.
Excessive promiscuity in women is only a sign of low self-restraint, low self-control and low value.

For a man to be excessively promiscuous, (while still not advisable) he has to be in the top 20% of men to be able to pull it off.
Men actually have to work at it, they have to approach, be confident, charming, flirty, attractive, and lead the entire interaction most of the time.
That actually takes effort, competence and attractiveness.

And obviously there’s much more that goes into that dichotomy, but on this one aspect alone, it’s perfectly understandable and reasonable why women’s promiscuity and men’s promiscuity is viewed differently. Because everything about male/female intersexual dynamics is different.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Because men and women are different. It’s not about fair or unfair, it just is.
> And while I’m not defending or celebrating male whorishness, sexual dynamics and realities are different for men and women.
> 
> It’s takes no effort or for women to sleep around. Almost any woman (even barely marginally attractive, or even slightly unattractive ones) can have sex with a different guy every night just by showing up and saying yes.
> ...


I get it. Not arguing or disagreeing with your points, though, I think there are different schools of thought on general screwing and affair participation. Regardless... Just musing that I’d like to sling some mud and have it stick. 

I think the main idea of all of this is that if you want to see sexism (or any ism for that matter) you will see it. There are a few people that are “ist”, but we shouldn’t generalize to the whole group. I just want more effective words. Topic for another thread. 🙂


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Honestly, the advice is the same for either gender. However, more often than not, a BW says she’s not in a financial position to leave. How many posts do we see from women that eventually state they have no job, no education and don’t have two nickels to rub together. So they eventually forgive and forget and go about their lives.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Cheating isn't a mistake, that is the problem. It is a choice, actually many, many choices a you betray your spouse with every single one of them.
> 
> If your wife strikes up a conversation with a male coworker, it progresses and becomes sexual over the course of a month or two, nudes are exchanges, make out sessions at lunch ensue, then come the plans for a hotel while you are out of town or she is supposed to be away for work. She sleeps with him then immediately confesses to you. That is a "mistake" you can forgive?
> 
> BTW, reverse the genders and nothing changes.


Let me ask you a question. do you have kids? Say you kid, even adult one, did something bad overtime. Like tried drugs or similar bad things. Would you abandon him or her because he did something bad? True devoted parent would not abandon him or her child because of one mistake even it it took time to make this mistake. The same applies to true marriage. Yes, it is possible to make a mistake over time in a marriage. And true real solid marriage can withstand one mistake.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Let me ask you a question. do you have kids? Say you kid, even adult one, did something bad overtime. Like tried drugs or similar bad things. Would you abandon him or her because he did something bad? True devoted parent would not abandon him or her child because of one mistake even it it took time to make this mistake. The same applies to true marriage. Yes, it is possible to make a mistake over time in a marriage. And true real solid marriage can withstand one mistake.


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Let me ask you a question. do you have kids? Say you kid, even adult one, did something bad overtime. Like tried drugs or similar bad things. Would you abandon him or her because he did something bad? True devoted parent would not abandon him or her child because of one mistake even it it took time to make this mistake. The same applies to true marriage. Yes, it is possible to make a mistake over time in a marriage. And true real solid marriage can withstand one mistake.


You live in a vacuum where you think you know what kind of affair your wife would have, were she to have one, and exactly how you’d feel about it. You know nothing Jon Snow. Keep on being completely idealistic and and ignorant though, it’s adorable.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Yes, it is possible to make a mistake over time in a marriage.


That is a fact. Another interesting fact is that an affair is NOT a mistake. It's intentional.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Sfort said:


> That is a fact. Another interesting fact is that an affair is NOT a mistake. It's intentional.


I have always loved when they call it a "mistake". It's utter BS.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> I have always loved when they call it a "mistake". It's utter BS.


His name says it all 🤮🤮🤮. I actually thought it was a female all along


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> His name says it all 🤮🤮🤮. I actually thought it was a female all along


No self-respect seems to be prevelant


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> I have always loved when they call it a "mistake". It's utter BS.


I’ve never been able to buy that a deliberate and premeditated act can be classified as a mistake.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> I’ve never been able to buy that a deliberate and premeditated act can be classified as a mistake.


Like I asked my XW, "What? Did you run, trip and fall with your face ending up in their crotch?"


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Let me ask you a question. do you have kids? Say you kid, even adult one, did something bad overtime. Like tried drugs or similar bad things. Would you abandon him or her because he did something bad? True devoted parent would not abandon him or her child because of one mistake even it it took time to make this mistake. The same applies to true marriage. Yes, it is possible to make a mistake over time in a marriage. And true real solid marriage can withstand one mistake.


I am a parent, successfully raised one to adulthood and the other is close. Your argument here is kind of useless since the scenarios are not even remotely the same. You also didn't answer my question, but I will try to answer yours.

If my kids got hooked on drugs I would not abandon them. I would continue to love them. They are blood and that can never change. They are FOREVER my children. They would also need me to help them get over what is a now a medical condition, an addiction. However, our relationship would change forever. For one, they would not be getting any money from me anymore, ever. I will not be a part of their bad behavior. I will never trust them the same, ever again.

You also have to consider that they didn't do anything to violate a relationship boundary. To be equivalent to marital infidelity they would need to get the family down the street to adopt them by telling them I am a POS dad that treats them poorly and won't let them have any fun. My wife and I know we are in a committed monogamous relationship. We both know that violating that will result in the relationship we agreed upon no longer existing. Violating that trust, that boundary, requires one of us to do so knowing full well what the consequences are. That isn't a mistake, it is a choice. A heartless and selfish choice which they think we are too stupid to find out about.

You have a very pollyannish view of your relationship. You really are in a romantic dreamworld. Would you really so freely forgive your wife if she made the mistake to start talking to a male coworker who gets her to slowly start complaining about you and your shortcomings? What about the mistake when that turns to flirting with the coworker for a couple months then finally makes the mistake of sleeping with him? Maybe even 3 times in the weekend they mistakenly ended up at the same hotel to do the deed? Or when she makes the mistake of telling him his penis is so much bigger than yours, or accidently doing sex acts she's never done with you? Do you forgive one or all of those "mistakes"? Like you, I feel that my wife would never do any of this to me. I truly believe she is a better person than that. However, I am not so naïve to believe that if she did it was a "mistake". I would be the one that made the mistake. I mistakenly thought she was better and above cheating

When someone is cheating the only real mistake is getting caught. Everything else was on purpose and the result of a conscious choice they made.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


Normal for a guy? Not all guys.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I am a parent, successfully raised one to adulthood and the other is close. Your argument here is kind of useless since the scenarios are not even remotely the same. You also didn't answer my question, but I will try to answer yours.
> 
> If my kids got hooked on drugs I would not abandon them. I would continue to love them. They are blood and that can never change. They are FOREVER my children. They would also need me to help them get over what is a now a medical condition, an addiction. However, our relationship would change forever. For one, they would not be getting any money from me anymore, ever. I will not be a part of their bad behavior. I will never trust them the same, ever again.
> 
> ...


I would forgive my wife if she cheated on me one time. My wife would forgive me if I cheated on her. She directly said this without any coercion or even me asking her. And this makes our marriage really strong. You are entitled to your own opinion but I repeat again the fact she won't immediately trash our marriage because of one infidelity makes me love her only more and cherish our marriage even more. I would feel completely different if she told me she is done with just one mistake.

Cheating is very bad horrible thing. If my wife cheated I would be hurt A LOT. But it is still not enough to break our marriage and my love for her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I would forgive my wife if she cheated on me one time. My wife would forgive me if I cheated on her. She directly said this without any coercion or even me asking her. And this makes our marriage really strong. You are entitled to your own opinion but I repeat again the fact she won't immediately trash our marriage because of one infidelity makes me love her only more and cherish our marriage even more. I would feel completely different if she told me she is done with just one mistake.
> 
> Cheating is very bad horrible thing. If my wife cheated I would be hurt A LOT. But it is still not enough to break our marriage and my love for her.


Two infidelities and you'll love her even more then. Three or so and you're golden.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I would forgive my wife if she cheated on me one time. My wife would forgive me if I cheated on her. She directly said this without any coercion or even me asking her. And this makes our marriage really strong. You are entitled to your own opinion but I repeat again the fact she won't immediately trash our marriage because of one infidelity makes me love her only more and cherish our marriage even more. I would feel completely different if she told me she is done with just one mistake.
> 
> Cheating is very bad horrible thing. If my wife cheated I would be hurt A LOT. But it is still not enough to break our marriage and my love for her.


So you gave each other a get out of jail free card. Are you going to use yours before you leave this earth?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Two infidelities and you'll love her even more then. Three or so and you're golden.


**** is as **** does


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Let me ask you a question. do you have kids? Say you kid, even adult one, did something bad overtime. Like tried drugs or similar bad things. Would you abandon him or her because he did something bad? True devoted parent would not abandon him or her child because of one mistake even it it took time to make this mistake. The same applies to true marriage. Yes, it is possible to make a mistake over time in a marriage. And true real solid marriage can withstand one mistake.


It’s shocking how little you understand about human relationships and intersexual dynamics.
You’re talking about unconditional love here but you fail to understand that it doesn’t apply in marriages or friendships.
Unconditional love is for your children and pets, not your spouse.
Unconditional love it’s not only not applicable to romantic relationships/marriages, it’s completely inappropriate and counterproductive.
In my marriage, my love and commitment are conditional (as are my wife’s). If not, you’re just an undignified doormat with no self-respect or standards.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I would forgive my wife if she cheated on me one time. My wife would forgive me if I cheated on her. She directly said this without any coercion or even me asking her. And this makes our marriage really strong. You are entitled to your own opinion but I repeat again the fact she won't immediately trash our marriage because of one infidelity makes me love her only more and cherish our marriage even more. I would feel completely different if she told me she is done with just one mistake.
> 
> Cheating is very bad horrible thing. If my wife cheated I would be hurt A LOT. But it is still not enough to break our marriage and my love for her.


The fundamental issue here is infidelity is not a mistake. 

I know you are trying to sound high and mighty, and say your marriage is something so special that it could survive anything. In reality you just sound very naïve and detached from reality, living up to your name I suppose. It is actually a little sad that you think it is a good thing that she openly doesn't see monogamy as requirement to stay married to you. She is okay if you mistakenly put you penis in another person. What you think strengthens your marriage actually puts it on slightly shakier ground.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> The fundamental issue here is infidelity is not a mistake.


Everything is not a mistake. Using drugs is not a mistake, being rude is not a mistake, silent treatment is not a mistake, lack of intimacy is not a mistake. However, if you adopt zero tolerance towards these "not mistakes" you won't have marriage or friendship or anything. We all make mistakes and as strong friendship can survive betrayal so is string marriage.



BigDaddyNY said:


> I know you are trying to sound high and mighty, and say your marriage is something so special that it could survive anything. In reality you just sound very naïve and detached from reality, living up to your name I suppose. It is actually a little sad that you think it is a good thing that she openly doesn't see monogamy as requirement to stay married to you. She is okay if you mistakenly put you penis in another person. What you think strengthens your marriage actually puts it on slightly shakier ground.


You can say anything you want. You also twist things the way you want. however you define it. She won't destroy it even when terribly and deeply hurt. And this is one more thing why I love her and cherish her so much. And this is why our marriage is so strong.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Two infidelities and you'll love her even more then. Three or so and you're golden.


Repeated infidelity is not a mistake, it is a pattern.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Repeated infidelity is not a mistake, it is a pattern.


And the 20+ lies told that preceded and enabled the affair is not a pattern?

I feel like you are talking about forgiving a ONS, not a single affair that may or may not have included multiple sexual encounters. How many times must sex occur within the context of a single affair to constitute a pattern?


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> And the 20+ lies told that preceded and enabled the affair is not a pattern?
> 
> I feel like you are talking about forgiving a ONS, not a single affair that may or may not have included multiple sexual encounters. How many times must sex occur within the context of a single affair to constitute a pattern?


Every one has different threshold what constitutes one affair vs more than one. I never cheated and never been cheated on so I really don't know. Fore more important thing would be true remorce of a cheater rather specific length of the affair.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Every one has different threshold what constitutes one affair vs more than one. I never cheated and never been cheated on so I really don't know. Fore more important thing would be true remorce of a cheater rather specific length of the affair.


Now you are getting closer, you are adding qualifiers. You can't really issue a blanket statement about forgiving an affair. You have no idea what you are forgiving.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Now you are getting closer, you are adding qualifiers. You can't really issue a blanket statement about forgiving an affair. You have no idea what you are forgiving.


You twist my words again. I never said an affair is easy to forgive. It is a betrayal. But one time affair (different people can define "one time" differently) is not enough to break true strong marriage. Remorce, deep unconditional remorce is an absolute requirement to move pas the affair and rebuild the foundation of the marriage.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> You twist my words again. I never said an affair is easy to forgive. It is a betrayal. But one time affair (different people can define "one time" differently) is not enough to break true strong marriage. Remorce, deep unconditional remorce is an absolute requirement to move pas the affair and rebuild the foundation of the marriage.


My point is how can you forgive something when you don't know what you are forgiving? Saying to your spouse, "I would forgive you if you cheated" is a meaningless and empty statement without any qualifications. Is she really saying she'll forgive any infidelity, so long as it only happened once? That is BS. Would she forgive a one night drunken mistake with her sister or mom (eww)? No way right? The statement that she would forgive you if you had an affair is akin to an empty promise, not a sign that your marriage is somehow stronger than another person's 

You said this:


romantic_dreamer said:


> People who love each other can forgive. If you are ready to give up your marriage and your love because if just one mistake then you do not love your parnter.


You are saying that I and others that say they wouldn't forgive a spouse for cheating don't love their spouses. That my friend couldn't be further from the truth.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My point is how can you forgive something when you don't know what you are forgiving? Saying to your spouse, "I would forgive you if you cheated" is a meaningless and empty statement without any qualifications. Is she really saying she'll forgive any infidelity, so long as it only happened once? That is BS. Would she forgive a one night drunken mistake with her sister or mom (eww)? No way right? The statement that she would forgive you if you had an affair is akin to an empty promise, not a sign that your marriage is somehow stronger than another person's
> 
> You said this:
> 
> You are saying that I and others that say they wouldn't forgive a spouse for cheating don't love their spouses. That my friend couldn't be further from the truth.


It’s difficult to argue with silly, vapid platitudes. You’re engaging in a futile exercise.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Here's a thought I've had for many years. It's unusual, but here it is anyway. When a man has an affair, from the woman's perspective, the woman knows he stuck his **** into another woman, he had physical pleasure and was done, at least for a while. However, when a woman has an affair, from a man's perspective, a man has penetrated her body, left behind his bodily fluids, and, to a great degree, considers her as a conquest. To an extent, even though the act was consensual, the woman's body is physically more "molested" than the man's body. The OM has "desecrated" his woman.

Another way of look at it: A man walks into a woman's home. He has mud on his shoes. He tracks that mud in her house. Then he leaves. He doesn't take the mud with him. He leaves it behind for her to manage. 

If you don't get it, don't worry about it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Here's a thought I've had for many years. It's unusual, but here it is anyway. When a man has an affair, from the woman's perspective, the woman knows he stuck his **** into another woman, he had physical pleasure and was done, at least for a while. However, when a woman has an affair, from a man's perspective, a man has penetrated her body, left behind his bodily fluids, and, to a great degree, considers her as a conquest. To an extent, even though the act was consensual, the woman's body is physically more "molested" than the man's body. The OM has "desecrated" his woman.
> 
> Another way of look at it: A man walks into a woman's home. He has mud on his shoes. He tracks that mud in her house. Then he leaves. He doesn't take the mud with him. He leaves it behind for her to manage.
> 
> If you don't get it, don't worry about it.


So it’s ok for a man to cheat but not a woman. Gotcha.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So it’s ok for a man to cheat but not a woman. Gotcha.


No way, no how. I'm talking primarily about the male reaction to it.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Here's a thought I've had for many years. It's unusual, but here it is anyway. When a man has an affair, from the woman's perspective, the woman knows he stuck his **** into another woman, he had physical pleasure and was done, at least for a while. However, when a woman has an affair, from a man's perspective, a man has penetrated her body, left behind his bodily fluids, and, to a great degree, considers her as a conquest. To an extent, even though the act was consensual, the woman's body is physically more "molested" than the man's body. The OM has "desecrated" his woman.
> 
> Another way of look at it: A man walks into a woman's home. He has mud on his shoes. He tracks that mud in her house. Then he leaves. He doesn't take the mud with him. He leaves it behind for her to manage.
> 
> If you don't get it, don't worry about it.


Well, I was pretty disgusted about the fact I was exposed to some nasty chicks funk, tricked into receiving it, along with whomever else she and her husband (if he was a cheater too) were screwing. I could have been screwing the whole town for all I know, and didn’t even get the benefit of a nice date. That is deeply violating in my mind… what I was “deposited” with and exposed to. I was seeing specialists because I didn’t feel right, everything was just not normal. He knew exactly what was going on and watched me do it, saw me suffering and still hid it and continued it. I can’t even explain what that feels like. Deeply violating and extremely difficult to just “forgive”. 

oh well. It’s like preaching to a tree who thinks it knows what a cat feels like. Beyond all comprehension.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Well, I was pretty disgusted about the fact I was exposed to some nasty chicks funk, tricked into receiving it, along with whomever else she and her husband (if he was a cheater too) were screwing. I could have been screwing the whole town for all I know, and didn’t even get the benefit of a nice date. That is deeply violating in my mind… what I was “deposited” with and exposed to. I was seeing specialists because I didn’t feel right, everything was just not normal. He knew exactly what was going on and watched me do it, saw me suffering and still hid it and continued it. I can’t even explain what that feels like. Deeply violating and extremely difficult to just “forgive”.
> 
> oh well. It’s like preaching to a tree who thinks it knows what a cat feels like. Beyond all comprehension.


I think he gave an honest assessment as a man knows it and best guess from a woman's perspective. I'm actually glad a woman sees it as equally violating, but sorry you were caught up in that situation.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think he gave an honest assessment as a man knows it and best guess from a woman's perspective. I'm actually glad a woman sees it as equally violating, but sorry you were caught up in that situation.


QR is a very smart lady. I very much appreciate her perspective.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think he gave an honest assessment as a man knows it and best guess from a woman's perspective. I'm actually glad a woman sees it as equally violating, but sorry you were caught up in that situation.


Oh for reference I wasn’t calling sfort the tree. You know who. 🤣


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> Well, I was pretty disgusted about the fact I was exposed to some nasty chicks funk, tricked into receiving it, along with whomever else she and her husband (if he was a cheater too) were screwing. I could have been screwing the whole town for all I know, and didn’t even get the benefit of a nice date. That is deeply violating in my mind… what I was “deposited” with and exposed to. I was seeing specialists because I didn’t feel right, everything was just not normal. He knew exactly what was going on and watched me do it, saw me suffering and still hid it and continued it. I can’t even explain what that feels like. Deeply violating and extremely difficult to just “forgive”.
> 
> oh well. It’s like preaching to a tree who thinks it knows what a cat feels like. Beyond all comprehension.


Im sorry you went through this also. Some people just suck. I can only guess who the “tree” is 🤔


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My point is how can you forgive something when you don't know what you are forgiving? Saying to your spouse, "I would forgive you if you cheated" is a meaningless and empty statement without any qualifications. Is she really saying she'll forgive any infidelity, so long as it only happened once? That is BS. Would she forgive a one night drunken mistake with her sister or mom (eww)? No way right? The statement that she would forgive you if you had an affair is akin to an empty promise, not a sign that your marriage is somehow stronger than another person's


Unbelievable BS. Do you really realize what you are writing? So if your wife tells you "I love you" do you ask her for "more clarification"? Do you tell her that this is a "blank statement" and you need to hear all conditions under which this is true or false? I do not need any clarification from my wife. I am very happy and very lucky that she is prepared to forgive and fight for our marriage. And so am I. We do not need any more details. I neve cheated and will never cheat. But as it feels good and safe to live in a house that is built to withstand Category 5 hurricane even if this hurricane never comes so it is good to feel to be in the marriage that is ironclad. 



BigDaddyNY said:


> You said this:
> 
> You are saying that I and others that say they wouldn't forgive a spouse for cheating don't love their spouses. That my friend couldn't be further from the truth.


I never said that you do not love your spouse or she does not love you. What I said is your marriage is not strong if your spouse or you is ready to immediately divorce if either of you have any infidelity.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Thanks so much you guys. 🙂 
2 years later, I’m good with it. I have learned a lot of valuable lessons about myself and I’m so appreciative and grateful for what I have in my life now. Pared down, but better. 

Oh, speak of the devil.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Unbelievable BS. Do you really realize what you are writing? So if your wife tells you "I love you" do you ask her for "more clarification"? Do you tell her that this is a "blank statement" and you need to hear all conditions under which this is true or false? I do not need any clarification from my wife. I am very happy and very lucky that she is prepared to forgive and fight for our marriage. And so am I. We do not need any more details. I neve cheated and will never cheat. But as it feels good and safe to live in a house that is built to withstand Category 5 hurricane even if this hurricane never comes so it is good to feel to be in the marriage that is ironclad.


You keep changing to something other than infidelity. First it was children, now it is "I love you." Neither are relevant. You also never ever answer a question I ask you. I'll play along again. I don't ask her to clarify what she means when she says I love you. It is straight forward and doesn't need any clarification. I can take it at face value. Now if she says, I would forgive you if you cheated on me, that would create the need for clarification, because I know she doesn't mean it without qualifications. I would also be wondering where such a statement was coming from. 


I get that your wife was trying to say how much she loves you, but the reality is there are things you could do that would be unforgivable to her. If not, she is a fool and a doormat, because it means she would put up with any bad behavior. Unconditional love of a spouse sounds like it should be a good thing, but it is not. Believe me, I/we can forgive a lot. Our marriage can withstand a lot. We've forgiven each other for burning the house down, lol. That was a mistake. Having sex with another person is NOT a mistake.




romantic_dreamer said:


> I never said that you do not love your spouse or she does not love you. What I said is your marriage is not strong if your spouse or you is ready to immediately divorce if either of you have any infidelity.


Are you lying or just forgetting what you said? Your exact words included "then you do not love your partner."
Your said this >>>>


romantic_dreamer said:


> If you are ready to give up your marriage and your love because if just one mistake then you do not love your parnter.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Unbelievable BS. Do you really realize what you are writing? So if your wife tells you "I love you" do you ask her for "more clarification"? Do you tell her that this is a "blank statement" and you need to hear all conditions under which this is true or false? I do not need any clarification from my wife. I am very happy and very lucky that she is prepared to forgive and fight for our marriage. And so am I. We do not need any more details. I neve cheated and will never cheat. But as it feels good and safe to live in a house that is built to withstand Category 5 hurricane even if this hurricane never comes so it is good to feel to be in the marriage that is ironclad.
> 
> 
> I never said that you do not love your spouse or she does not love you. What I said is your marriage is not strong if your spouse or you is ready to immediately divorce if either of you have any infidelity.


Love or no love, strong marriage or weak marriage, infidelity is a dealbreaker for many and there’s no other option than divorce. Just because you live in la la land doesn’t mean you’re correct.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You keep changing to something other than infidelity. First it was children, now it is "I love you." Neither are relevant. You also never ever answer a question I ask you. I'll play along again. I don't ask her to clarify what she means when she says I love you. It is straight forward and doesn't need any clarification. I can take it at face value. Now if she says, I would forgive you if you cheated on me, that would create the need for clarification, because I know she doesn't mean it without qualifications. I would also be wondering where such a statement was coming from.
> 
> 
> I get that your wife was trying to say how much she loves you, but the reality is there are things you could do that would be unforgivable to her. If not, she is a fool and a doormat, because it means she would put up with any bad behavior. Unconditional love of a spouse sounds like it should be a good thing, but it is not. Believe me, I/we can forgive a lot. Our marriage can withstand a lot. We've forgiven each other for burning the house down, lol. That was a mistake. Having sex with another person is NOT a mistake.


"I love you" is as ambiguous or as conditional as "I will forgive you if you cheat". You wife loves you based on her perception of you. If you were a serial killer or a drug dealer and she found out about this this would probably have invalidated her "I love you" statement. My wife willingness to forgive me obviously has some limits and conditions the same way her love for me. I do not need these details. I am not trying to discover and lay out the path under which I can "safely" cheat and be forgiven. I am not going to cheat. And my wife's willingness to forgive feels much better than unconditional willingness to kill the marriage if any infidelity occurs. 

As I said before I said few times in our 25 years of marriage rather hurtful things to my wife. I regret them with all my heart and if I could do anything to take this back I would do this. My wife probably does not even remember this but I do and will always do. Now if my wife adopted no tolerance for saying hurtful things as you see no tolerance for infidelity and divorced me it would have been her fault for destroying our marriage, not mine despite me hurting her. Now what's fundamental difference between me saying hurtful things to her in a heat of a moment vs having some ONS being drunk? Both are bad, hurtful things. But are they enough to kill the marriage?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

romantic_dreamer said:


> "I love you" is as ambiguous or as conditional as "I will forgive you if you cheat". You wife loves you based on her perception of you. If you were a serial killer or a drug dealer and she found out about this this would probably have invalidated her "I love you" statement. My wife willingness to forgive me obviously has some limits and conditions the same way her love for me. I do not need these details. I am not trying to discover and lay out the path under which I can "safely" cheat and be forgiven. I am not going to cheat. And my wife's willingness to forgive feels much better than unconditional willingness to kill the marriage if any infidelity occurs.
> 
> As I said before I said few times in our 25 years of marriage rather hurtful things to my wife. I regret them with all my heart and if I could do anything to take this back I would do this. My wife probably does not even remember this but I do and will always do. Now if my wife adopted no tolerance for saying hurtful things as you see no tolerance for infidelity and divorced me it would have been her fault for destroying our marriage, not mine despite me hurting her. Now what's fundamental difference between me saying hurtful things to her in a heat of a moment vs having some ONS being drunk? Both are bad, hurtful things. *But are they enough to kill the marriage?*


Yes they both are. You seem to be treating infidelity as being similar to something like saying hurtful things. Even you must see they aren't equal. It can take many, many hurtful comments to permanently damage a marriage, where it only take 1 instance of infidelity.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yes they both are. You seem to be treating infidelity as being similar to something like saying hurtful things. Even you must see they aren't equal. It can take many, many hurtful comments to permanently damage a marriage, where it only take 1 instance of infidelity.


you’re clearly not going to get anywhere with this, but I applaud your tireless efforts…


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I personally believe that true happy marriages can overcome an affair from either wife or a husband. People who love each other can forgive. If you are ready to give up your marriage and your love because if just one mistake then you do not love your parnter.


If a spouse cheats, they do not love their partner. I could forgive but would not remain. Sex with another is in no way a mistake, it was an active choice and want by that person to betray their spouse.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> We’ll, at least you are aptly named with your choice of handle.
> 
> There is so much ridiculously wrong in this short post, I’m not even going to try. You won’t understand.


Does the term Pipe Dream mean anything to ya!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

romantic_dreamer said:


> I told you I never gave my wife any reason to doubt my love for her and my faithfulness. I am.noy even aroused by any woman except her. But I feel very good that the woman I love so much would not dump me or be ready to destroy our marriage if I hypothetically made some mistake. I I do absolutely believe her she would have forgiven me.
> 
> I believe only truly strong marriage can withstand betrayal.


It is the cheater that destroys the marriage, not the BS that checks out.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Again, I believe strong marriages can withstand one time betrayal. And I am very happy my wife would forgive me if I had such one time mistake. I would feel very different about our marriage and it would affect my love for her if she told me it is over if I have any affair. Obviously affairs are different and some are easier to forgive than others.


So you would overlook her hooking up one night and then saying sorry, I was drunk? What if she is the engine on that train, just one drunken incident ..just happened to be 4 or 5 dudes at once, but it was just 1 mistake right?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> If a spouse cheats, they do not love their partner. I could forgive but would not remain. Sex with another is in no way a mistake, it was an active choice and want by that person to betray their spouse.


 there are a few different levels of cheating, 
some worse than others, 
there is cheating if you are in love with a co worker but no sex 
there is sex with a person one off 
and there is the affair which is love and sex 
you might come up with a few more like the one that was sex every night before they married and then soon after it drops off until there is none ,
dishonesty can be cheating depending on in what way they are dishonest


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> So you would overlook her hooking up one night and then saying sorry, I was drunk? What if she is the engine on that train, just one drunken incident ..just happened to be 4 or 5 dudes at once, but it was just 1 mistake right?


 I saw A girl that was that drunk once she hooked up with one guy in his room and his 2 room mates helped out I think if you pushed it she could have clamed rape, 
thinking back now after reading your post it would be hard to say just how responsible each was , i felt sorry for the girl when the other guys told us what they had done


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DudeInProgress said:


> It’s shocking how little you understand about human relationships and intersexual dynamics.
> You’re talking about unconditional love here but you fail to understand that it doesn’t apply in marriages or friendships.
> Unconditional love is for your children and pets, not your spouse.
> Unconditional love it’s not only not applicable to romantic relationships/marriages, it’s completely inappropriate and counterproductive.
> In my marriage, my love and commitment are conditional (as are my wife’s). If not, you’re just an undignified doormat with no self-respect or standards.


I disagree, there is a time for unconditional love in marriage. When trying to save my marriage before my wife would go to marriage counseling with a sex therapist, I read Chapman's 5 Languages of Love. I also read Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy. One of the things in that last book that got my attention was the concept of a "covert contract." I tried very hard to make my wife feel loved and cherished in her Love Languages (Acts of Service and Quality Time). However, I kept asking myself if the things I did to make my wife feel loved and cherished were really just covert contracts to make her love me and want to have sex with me.

That is when I gave my wife unconditional love in the form of Acts of Service and Quality Time. It took a while, but ultimately they were just gifts from me to her with nothing expected in return, because I wanted her to feel loved and cherished. She tested me. Ultimately she started to feel loved and cherished. That is when she agreed to marriage counseling.

So yes, in my experience there are times for unconditional love. To this day I still question my actions from the perspective of a covert contract or as an actual expression of my affection for my wife. A loving marriage relationship should be more than a quid pro quo set of exchanges covert or agreed upon.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> I disagree, there is a time for unconditional love in marriage. When trying to save my marriage before my wife would go to marriage counseling with a sex therapist, I read Chapman's 5 Languages of Love. I also read Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy. One of the things in that last book that got my attention was the concept of a "covert contract." I tried very hard to make my wife feel loved and cherished in her Love Languages (Acts of Service and Quality Time). However, I kept asking myself if the things I did to make my wife feel loved and cherished were really just covert contracts to make her love me and want to have sex with me.
> 
> That is when I gave my wife unconditional love in the form of Acts of Service and Quality Time. It took a while, but ultimately they were just gifts from me to her with nothing expected in return, because I wanted her to feel loved and cherished. She tested me. Ultimately she started to feel loved and cherished. That is when she agreed to marriage counseling.
> 
> So yes, in my experience there are times for unconditional love. To this day I still question my actions from the perspective of a covert contract or as an actual expression of my affection for my wife. A loving marriage relationship should be more than a quid pro quo set of exchanges covert or agreed upon.


What is a quid pro quo set of exchanges? Does unconditional love mean no consequences for ones actions, for example, if I commit adultery, I know God will forgive me, that parts a no brainer, but if I get AIDS, will His unconditional love for me make that go away?


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> there are a few different levels of cheating,
> some worse than others,
> there is cheating if you are in love with a co worker but no sex
> there is sex with a person one off
> ...


The cheating where theres no sex doesn’t bother me. its the sex when there’s no cheating I don’t like.😀


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

DonJuan said:


> What is a quid pro quo set of exchanges? Does unconditional love mean no consequences for ones actions, for example, if I commit adultery, I know God will forgive me, that parts a no brainer, but if I get AIDS, will His unconditional love for me make that go away?


Why would Hod forgive you? You literally broke the 9 th commandment


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> It is the cheater that destroys the marriage, not the BS that checks out.


Strong marriage can withstand betrayal? I thought it was either the strong, or stupid spouse, that withstands the betrayal, that might make the marriage seem strong.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Why would Hod forgive you? You literally broke the 9 th commandment


Who is Hod?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

God


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> you’re clearly not going to get anywhere with this, but I applaud your tireless efforts…


It can also take just a few comments to permanently damage someone’s marriage. Maybe you haven’t heard some of those kinds of comments, but they exist. Just think about. Why should it take hundreds of I hate you‘s before permanent damage has been done? Maybe I’m just a snowflake.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> God


Oh God, which God doesn’t forgive?


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> God


I’m talking about the God that forgives us which may be different than yours.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

DonJuan said:


> Strong marriage can withstand betrayal? I thought it was either the strong, or stupid spouse, that withstands the betrayal, that might make the marriage seem strong.


Wtf are you even saying? Wife’s mean? KwVe don’t cheat


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yes they both are. You seem to be treating infidelity as being similar to something like saying hurtful things. Even you must see they aren't equal. It can take many, many hurtful comments to permanently damage a marriage, where it only take 1 instance of infidelity.


Some marriages may take several acts of infidelity before it’s over, I’ve seen this. Maybe it depends on how strong their love for each other is, or their financial situation.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Wtf are you even saying? Wife’s mean? KwVe don’t cheat


I may be missing something. Wife’s mean and KwVe don’t cheat are Greek to me. Can you put that into a simple question please?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

DonJuan said:


> Oh God, which God doesn’t forgive?


What god did yo mean? Christian? If so, no. You don’t get a freebe. You cheated because you chose to. Cheaters suck


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## QuestionAssumptions (2 mo ago)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> True. And when a guy gets cheated on and stays, he becomes a cuckold. A woman has no such label.


That's because a woman can't really be a cuckold in the biological sense: "In biology, a cuckold is a male who unwittingly invests parental effort in juveniles who are not genetically his offspring."

There is a saying that, "Only the mother knows for sure," meaning that, particularly in the days before DNA testing, only the mother knew who the real father of her children were. A cheating wife can mean a father raising children that are not biologically his, but that cannot ever happen to a woman.

This is also why people advise men who have been cheated on to run paternity tests on their children but it wouldn't make any sense to advise a woman to do that. It's not difficult to find infidelity stories where the father finds out his children are not biologically his and home DNA Ancestry kits have provided some unpleasant surprises decades later. No woman is ever going to be surprised by that unless her child was switched after birth.

So from a reproductive standpoint, men need wives who are loyal and will not trick them into raising other men's children.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

snowbum said:


> What’s bashing about stating men usually are out end of story but want wife to try again because they just enjoyed sex elsewhere ?


If the other threads that women complain about are women hating gender war stuff, then this is man bashing. No double standards, right?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

snowbum said:


> What god did yo mean? Christian? If so, no. You don’t get a freebe. You cheated because you chose to. Cheaters suck


I thought the whole concept of Christianity is we are all sinners and imperfect. Kind of expected to sin really. You are saved if you fully trust in Jesus. 

I do agree that cheaters suck.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DonJuan said:


> Some marriages may take several acts of infidelity before it’s over, I’ve seen this. Maybe it depends on how strong their love for each other is, or their financial situation.


Some words and some actions cut deeper than others and it depends on the person.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read so many men recommend that the husband bail when wife cheats. However, that advice isn’t given when the man cheats . People tell the woman to “ porn it up”, lose weight, pay attention to husband rather than the kids. I call bs. Why is it end game if woman cheats but normal for a guy? Personally? Cheat once or get caught trying and I’m gone. No discussion . Game over.


I would tell her to bail too, what’s the difference.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Some words and some actions cut deeper than others and it depends on the person.


True, as well as the amount of times someone is willing to listen to it.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> What god did yo mean? Christian? If so, no. You don’t get a freebe. You cheated because you chose to. Cheaters suck


We all choose to cheat, that ones easy enough. What’s a freebe? Then as far as the rude comment at the end, which god supports that? Like I really care.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Freebee. If you don’t believe in God it’s still a rotten thing to do to someone. But if you have no morals I guess you don’t care.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> Free we. If you don’t believe in God it’s still a rotten thing to do to someone. But if you have no morals I guess you don’t care.


I agree about the rotten thing to do, no problem. But do all people who cheat, have no morals, or just me?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

DonJuan said:


> I agree about the rotten thing to do, no problem. But do all people who cheat, have no morals, or just me?


I think people who lie to their spouse, hide sex with others from them, and do not feel the slightest bit of guilt lack morals. I’d say most if not all cheaters lack morals.


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## DonJuan (Oct 20, 2021)

snowbum said:


> I think people who lie to their spouse, hide sex with others from them, and do not feel the slightest bit of guilt lack morals. I’d say most if not all cheaters lack morals.


And be careful when they show the slightest bit of guilt, because it could be deceptive.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

snowbum said:


> I’ve read men here ask the betrayed woman if they gained weight, are too vanilla, dress up. Many instances of that advice


Could be, where the husband is flirting and sniffing, and she is not *(putting out).


Never, if the husband has already stuck his fork in it.


I push divorce, in most cases.



_Are Dee-_

*not right, of course.


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