# Whats Your Take on this....??



## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

My wife kindly offered me my monthly HJ yesterday evening.
(for those of you who haven't read my posts before...she is exceedingly LD and not interested in sex)

Anyway, whilst she was lying across me doing 'it' and I was stroking her back I asked her if she liked my c0ck...

"I've got nothing to compare it to" (mine was and is the only one she's had anything to do with)

"That aside, do you like what I've got?"

Silence...no comment....no response...nil...nada....zilch.

I didnt push it. 

Despite knowing my wife has no interest in sex etc, I was a bit pi$$ed off that she couldnt even bring herself to answer.

Am I over-reacting?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Good God, no, you are not overreacting.

I kinda want to slap her silly myself. That's just rude, and mean, and thoughtless and wrong in all kinds of ways.

Sorry, amigo.


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## dblkman (Jul 14, 2010)

nothing worse than a "pity BJ"


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Yes there is.....a pity HJ!!!!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What a strange comment from your wife--nothing to compare it to? Really? What in the frick? That wasn't very loving. And then her silence... that is just wrong. 

Sorry you have to deal with that.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

There's no easy way to break it to her since there's the cononundrum of you needing to communicate to your wife yet your wife getting the message with more depth if she figured it out instead of you telling her..

So anyway, what you were doing was not that you were looking for her to say you have a better than average unit. You were looking for an affirmation, and asking your wife with a subtext like 'Do you love me enough to affirm me or not' and she pretty much went with not. It's not entirely her fault, she didn't catch the subtext.

I think the nice thing for us men is we can be direct. So maybe try being direct anyway.

For her part, she probably doesn't like doing this anyway and expecting an affirmation from her while she's doing something she doesn't want might be bad timing. If she understood the subtext, maybe it'd lighten her up a little bit, enough that it was to her a more reasonable request.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Do you guys even have s ex? 

What is up w/ a "monthly HJ?" Is it scheduled?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

7737 said:


> Despite knowing my wife has no interest in sx etc, I was a bit pi$$ed off that she couldnt even bring herself to answer.
> 
> Am I over-reacting?


Her response was overly shytty, no doubt. BUT...knowing that she has zero interest in s*x with you, why would you set yourself up for a fall like that? You had to know that it was not very likely for her to give you a positive response.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What do you do for your wife to make her feel happy?
For example, let's pretend it's housework... You should say to your wife "How would you feel if I did housework, but complained all the time that I hated housework? I think it would defeat the purpose of me doing housework... Similar to that if you act like you hate sex, you are defeating the purpose of trying to do something nice for me... So you have to decide what kind of wife you want to be"


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

7737, honestly, sounds like the monthly HJ is no fun for either of you, she obviously doesn't enjoy it, and it seems you'd do a better job of it yourself. So as much as I would advise people to work on their sex life maybe for you that means turning her down and just taking care of yourself until she actually wants some kind of sexual activity. Make sure to keep the intimacy every other which way you can because sex is a powerful bond and without it you need to find other ways to bond if you want to have a chance at a fulfilling (sexless) marriage.

I'm not sure this is the best advice for your marriage though, to me I can't comprehend such a low drive scenario unless it is an attraction issue for her... in which case maybe my advice is more for you alone. Just focus on yourself sexually and explain to her why. I'm not saying to 180, nor turn down the already low temperature, just make it more about you because if she is content its only you that is suffering through this. And if you know for a fact she's not content then do what you can to help her but not at the expense of your dignity.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Good God, no, you are not overreacting.
> 
> I kinda want to slap her silly myself. That's just rude, and mean, and thoughtless and wrong in all kinds of ways.
> 
> Sorry, amigo.


This would have been my comment. Now I have to come up with another one.


If I was in that situation I would have "overreacted" by getting up immediately and leaving the room. This type of behavior is something I hope my wife never learns, but if she does, I'd have a hard time staying in that relationship. I would rather be miserable and alone than miserable with her. That whole "misery loves company thing" is bullsh*t, especially when it comes to things like that. I am overreacting of course, but nothing irks me more than this type of behavior. Purposely mean and callous just to hurt his feelings.

I'm just saying.... please pretend my penis could create a lunar eclipse. It's a 9th wonder. Stonehedge was motivated by my penis. There is no way you could ever live without it. My penis has became a necessity. In fact, you would forgo water for a week just to see my penis, and then you'd sculpt a statue of it to use as a water fountain on your front lawn. Or, just tell me it's "pretty". My wife told me my penis was pretty, my whole perspective changed. I said, really? She said, yes, its so pretty. 

To be honest I do not know if she called my penis gay, but I liked it.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Hicks said:


> What do you do for your wife to make her feel happy?
> For example, let's pretend it's housework... You should say to your wife "How would you feel if I did housework, but complained all the time that I hated housework? I think it would defeat the purpose of me doing housework... Similar to that if you act like you hate sex, you are defeating the purpose of trying to do something nice for me... So you have to decide what kind of wife you want to be"


There is a slight hazard in this comparison, the housework is a rational activity and intimacy is based on a lot of stuff other than rationality. It is much easier to rationalize one self into doing housework in spite of not enjozing it than it is for intimacy. And deducing that because one can rationalize their way through boring housework, that means one should be able to rationalize their way through intimacz... such deductions do not tend to work out and usually are counterproductive.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> This would have been my comment. Now I have to come up with another one.


Keeping you on your toes is what keeps me coming here, Ari


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Where should I start?....we live in a country where domestic staff are the absolute norm. So I cant help her with house work.... However, as one of my hobbies is cooking, I do all the cooking and I 'run' the house...make sure the generator is serviced/full of diesel, water tanks filled up, cars insured, serviced etc. 

I buy her flowers every Friday (OK, I like them round the house too) and I take her out for dinner once a week. I also pack her off to a spa/retreat for a long weekend a couple of times a year.

The down side is that I am often not home from work till 7.30pm...working in a 3rd world country can also be very stressful!!

I guess what I am trying to say, is that I do more than my fair share...I provide her with an excellent standard of living.

The 'monthly HJ' - she isnt interested in sex and isn't interested in my 'needs'....except for once a month she will 'come on' to me and offer be an HJ or sex (never a BJ)....ie the bare minimum she can get away with.

Manning up, being more forceful, talking about it etc is just met with 'all you want from me is sex'...or when she's feeling more 'charitable' 'I'm sorry, I just dont like it. I can't change who I am'...


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Lon said:


> 7737, honestly, sounds like the monthly HJ is no fun for either of you, she obviously doesn't enjoy it, and it seems you'd do a better job of it yourself.
> 
> ....Lon, indeed I could. I suppose I could try lying on my right arm until it goes to 'sleep' then 'do it myself' as it will feel like someone else is doing it!! :smthumbup:


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Hmm... need to think, sounds like there is a cultural difference here at play?


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

You could start by turning her down. If this is just a monthly event though it could take a really long time to get any results...

Hey, okay tell me if there is any pattern. Sexuality has a lot of basis in hormones creating drive. Women peak sexually during ovulation. Is it possible this monthly HJ coincides with ovulation?


When ovulation happens varies from woman to woman so the best you might be able to do is look for consistency in terms of how long after her period starts.

If this is the case you might have a hint that there is a sexual woman inside after all. And if that is the case you need to stop trying to get in her pants by rational means and learn how to do it like guys had to learn how back in the days before humans could write.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

WillK....the 'cultural differences' are German/British. We're not exactly worlds apart!

We've done the counselling thing - she simply stopped going when the subject of sex came up. I still go...for ME.

She just doesnt think sex is important, and why should she do something if she doesn't like it?

'Because you husband does and surely you can do it for him?'....
'Why should I? I don't like it, its the way I am. Sorry'.

I feel an 'obligation' to call my parents once a week (they are elderly and live on a different continent)....It sometimes clashes with other things but its important to them....so I make the effort. 
I have to go for a walk to call them or I ring them on my way home from work etc...because my wife resents it. 

She can go for 3 months without making ANY contact with her parents (also on a different continent). She has no sense of 'duty'.
If she doesnt like doing something she simply won't do it. If she couldnt be bothered to pick up teh phone/skype and call her parents because they'd love to hear from her, she won't do it.

If I am feeling horny and she isn't (99.99% of the time) then thats it. Nada.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, it comes down to a basic difference in beliefs about marriage.

I think that sex is a basic part of marriage, period, and that it's not reasonable to withhold sex from a marital partner UNLESS you're going to also give them a free pass to get it somewhere else. Saying, "That's the way I am" is, excuse my language, a piss poor excuse.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Well if she is complaining that all you want from her is sex, what else is there? You already take care of the house, you take care of the providing, and you pretty much have to already take care of your own sexual pleasure... what else is there?? Do you have children she takes care of? Does she work? What exactly are her contributions in the marriage? Is she just a pretty thing to look at but not touch? Have you considered that she doesn't really like you but likes the lifestyle you provide for her? If so then maybe she isn't so LD after all, if that's so then how is she meeting her own sexual needs?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, I'm not trying to attack or judge but obviously you have some huge needs that aren't being met, nor does it seem she is interested, for most this becomes a dealbreaker pretty quick. It is doubtful she wants to change so what do you plan to do?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If your wife says that's the way I am... First you have to control the definition to have her verbalize that the way she is is that she does not expect to have be giving or meet your needs and also verbalize that she expects her needs met by you. As opposed to a loser conversation about all the reasons/excuses she does not want sex "the way I am is not horny'... But if she verbalizes the former with the idea you take it or leave it... And you decide to take it, then expect nothing.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Lamaga - not just about marriage...life too.

Sometimes we all have to do things we don't particularly like doing....maybe you hate having to drive your son (if you have!) to judo club every Thursday evening - you'd much rather put your feet up and watch a movie - but because your son loves it and it means alot to him, you do it....for HIM.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

She likes the lifestyle, the manicures, the pedicures, the domestic staff, the cars, the holidays, the club membership, the golden retriever, the two children (at boarding school - they love it)....

Its as if she has said, YES! I accept all of 'that' part of marriage, but the sex part? Nah!

She has recently joined FB...a couple of guys started flirting with her, instead of thinking 'Hey!! Wow!'...she simply banned them.

In many ways I would LOVE for a guy to show some interest in her, flirt with her...even get her into bed...because atleast then I would know its me. But she simply isn't interested in sex with or indeed anyone else. Not even her own hand! (sorry!!)


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Very hurtful, OP, but I'm wondering if you would have preferred her to have, perhaps, lied and told you: "Yes, I think it's wonderful," or told the truth, perhaps, by telling you: "No, I don't like it." As hurtful as this may be, it sounds to me like your wife just doesn't like anything to do with sex - period.

Whatever the scenario, a monthly HJ just isn't healthy in a relationship, and I'm wondering if MC wouldn't be a good idea here?

I'm sorry your wife hurt your feelings like that...


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

7737 said:


> In many ways I would LOVE for a guy to show some interest in her, flirt with her...even get her into bed...because atleast then I would know its me.


WTF? You don't need another guy to bang your wife to know that. Is it you, yeah, I'm guessing it's at least part you, b/c you've taught her that this is acceptable. If you dumped her today, and she found a new bf, do you think the monthly HJ routine would keep him around? No, she'd probably be giving him p*rnstar s*x, at least until she hooked him.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So why do you stay married to her if you know she has zero desire to be with you sexually and it's what ou want?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

7737 said:


> Lamaga - not just about marriage...life too.
> 
> Sometimes we all have to do things we don't particularly like doing....maybe you hate having to drive your son (if you have!) to judo club every Thursday evening - you'd much rather put your feet up and watch a movie - but because your son loves it and it means alot to him, you do it....for HIM.


I don't think sex works this way, because I don't think anyone can spend a lifetime doing something they_ truly_ don't like. The point is, why did you wife accept all the good things that a marriage has to offer, knowing full well that she wasn't prepared to participate in a _vital _part of it? 

Celibate relationships only work when mutually agreed upon...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

7737 said:


> She likes the lifestyle, the manicures, the pedicures, the domestic staff, the cars, the holidays, the club membership, the golden retriever, the two children (at boarding school - they love it)....
> 
> Its as if she has said, YES! I accept all of 'that' part of marriage, but the sex part? Nah!
> 
> ...


What is in the marriage for you? What do you get out it, and what benefits does being married to her provide to you?

Also, has she always been like this about sex?


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

She sounds like she has princess syndrome. Did you guys have a healthy sexual relationship before getting married? If so then her turning it off after getting established in this lifestyle is completely wrong. Of course you are interested in sex. She's not stupid. She may act that way because you apparently have accepted that your only worth a monthly HJ to her. Not sure how you feel about it but most people would agree a sexless marriage is no marriage at all. You didn't get married to have a room mate. You got married to be in love and to have lots and lots of sex.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Whats in it for me? Two little people who mean more to me than anyone else in the whole world.

Sounds odd, but those of you out there with youngish children (ie. aged 8,9,10,11,12) will understand..... Young children believe in unconditional love. 

When you walk in the house after the most $hit day ever and your little 9 year old smiling daughter comes running up to shouting 'Daddy!!!' and jumps up into your arms.....well....your $hit day suddenly becomes 1000% better!

To your children you are THE MOST WONDERFUL person ever in the whole wide world....ever!

If you have an itch on the part of your back you cant reach...they will itch it for you and not expect a candy (I'm using 'Americanisms'!!)....

Hell.....you 'Moms' and 'Pops' out there know exactly what I mean!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You can still be a father to them w/o staying married to your wife.

You have a choice in the matter. 

Just saying.


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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

7737 said:


> ...Manning up, being more forceful, talking about it etc is just met with 'all you want from me is sex'...or when she's feeling more 'charitable' 'I'm sorry, I just dont like it. I can't change who I am'...


I just can't imagaine she has always been like this towards sex. Without delving into your previous posts, can you say that she has changed since you 2 were dating/first married? If so, apparently she can change, and has done as such already....


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

This one is easy. You pay all the bills, you take care of all her needs, you are the husband she always wanted, yet she can't take care of the most primal need a man has?

She sounds pretty selfish. Ask her if sex is important or has any meaning to her anymore? If she says no, ask her how she would feel if you went out and had sex with other women. Of course she won't want that, so obviously sex is important to her in that sense. She wants you to herself, but she doesn't want you at all. Totally selfish. 

I would be out of the relationship or at least start making that move. IF she changes once she realizes how serious it is to me, then I would work with her. If she doesn't, time to move on. Life it too short to be unhappy and have one of your most basic needs ignored, I am sorry.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

hldnhope said:


> I just can't imagaine she has always been like this towards sex. Without delving into your previous posts, can you say that she has changed since you 2 were dating/first married? If so, apparently she can change, and has done as such already....


If I may, it seems the backstory is at this post:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-want-sex-wife-please-enter-5.html#post809109



> dated my wife for about 4 years before marrying her 17 years ago. Whilst we were dating sex was never 'wild' but it was OK. After marriage and two children it dwindled.
> ...


I think it sounds like if it's to change she'd need reprogramming. First step is figuring out if she has any repressed sexuality or not. Such suggestions have already been made.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Her mother told her to get a gold plated vagina so that her husband could come into money.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

7737 said:


> Whats in it for me? Two little people who mean more to me than anyone else in the whole world.
> 
> Sounds odd, but those of you out there with youngish children (ie. aged 8,9,10,11,12) will understand..... Young children believe in unconditional love.
> 
> ...


Nobody asked you what do your kids contribute, we asked what does your W contribute? Especially as your kids are in boarding school, your W isn't even a SAHM, she is living a dream life of having all her provisionary needs met by you and all the free time in the world to fill whatever other needs she has.

I have one son and he means the world to me, and when my ex W left and I divorced her, I was not divorcing my son. Yes he now has two homes and that is the hardest part, but yours already have two homes (your home and boarding school) so it's not as if a choice to stick with an unfulfilling marriage or not would have traumatic consequences on them. When your kids are home, what is your family life life? Do you and your W show affection for each other?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> This one is easy. You pay all the bills, you take care of all her needs, you are the husband she always wanted, yet she can't take care of the most primal need a man has?
> 
> She sounds pretty selfish. Ask her if sex is important or has any meaning to her anymore? If she says no, ask her how she would feel if you went out and had sex with other women. Of course she won't want that, so obviously sex is important to her in that sense. She wants you to herself, but she doesn't want you at all. Totally selfish.
> 
> I would be out of the relationship or at least start making that move. IF she changes once she realizes how serious it is to me, then I would work with her. If she doesn't, time to move on. Life it too short to be unhappy and have one of your most basic needs ignored, I am sorry.


This is my take on it for the most part. Although I would tend to make the idea of getting either from her or elsewhere an ultimatum. Your wife sounds worse than mine ever was, so frankly I'd likely want to get out anyway. Ship her azz back to her home country and move on with life.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

7737, what I am really curious about in your situation is if your W simply has no sex drive or is getting it completely fulfilled from somewhere (someone) else. I wouldn't make this accusation except it seems from what I can put together of your story, you have set it up for her to just do that way too easily.

You leave the house to work almost all day, leaving her with no kids to take care of, no messes to clean, no meals to make, all the money she could spend and all the time to do whatever teh heck she wants. There are even servants in the house!!? Are any of these servants young men (ie you were a young man once what would you do if you were around an attractive mature lonely lady all day). This sounds ridiculous, cliche even, however looking at your situation it is so entirely plausible.

So what does she do all day?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

7737 said:


> Whats in it for me? Two little people who mean more to me than anyone else in the whole world.
> 
> Sounds odd, but those of you out there with youngish children (ie. aged 8,9,10,11,12) will understand..... Young children believe in unconditional love.
> 
> Hell.....you 'Moms' and 'Pops' out there know exactly what I mean!


Sorry, man, but I'm going to have to rip you on this. I have two at home under 11 yo, and I used to think like you. End result...your wife owns your azz...absolutely owns it. She doesn't have to lift a finger, b/c you won't leave, or even rock the boat. The day I accepted that my marriage could end, and I'd be okay...was unreal. I love my kids dearly, and I think I'm a great dad, but that doesn't mean that I will accept disrespectful garbage from my wife, in the pathetic hope that she won't break up the family.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

It's like you're Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction "I'm sorry did I break your concentration?"


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

7737 said:


> Whats in it for me? Two little people who mean more to me than anyone else in the whole world.
> 
> Sounds odd, but those of you out there with youngish children (ie. aged 8,9,10,11,12) will understand..... Young children believe in unconditional love.
> 
> ...


You mention that your children are at boarding school. If so, that seems to reduce the amount that you would miss them if you divorced.

As far as my question about if she has always been this way, I ask because in another thread you admitted to an affair. You stated that your wife does not know about it, but is it possible that she does or at least suspects? That may well explain her lack of interest.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> It's like you're Samuel Jackson in Pulp Fiction "I'm sorry did I break your concentration?"


If you're talking about me, yeah, I've got the battle scars of years of stupidity to back that up.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

7737 said:


> Where should I start?....we live in a country where domestic staff are the absolute norm. So I cant help her with house work.... However, as one of my hobbies is cooking, I do all the cooking and I 'run' the house...make sure the generator is serviced/full of diesel, water tanks filled up, cars insured, serviced etc.
> 
> I buy her flowers every Friday (OK, I like them round the house too) and I take her out for dinner once a week. I also pack her off to a spa/retreat for a long weekend a couple of times a year.
> 
> ...


7737,

The part about you not getting home until 7:30 is pure BS! I don't get home much before 7 myself every night and leave the house at 6 AM! 

As others have said, STOP doing some of the nice things for her! Get her to a sex therapist or something for sh!t's sake!


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

> Originally Posted by 7737
> Whats in it for me? Two little people who mean more to me than anyone else in the whole world.
> 
> Sounds odd, but those of you out there with youngish children (ie. aged 8,9,10,11,12) will understand..... Young children believe in unconditional love.
> ...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

7737 said:


> My wife kindly offered me my monthly HJ yesterday evening.
> (for those of you who haven't read my posts before...she is exceedingly LD and not interested in sex)
> 
> Anyway, whilst she was lying across me doing 'it' and I was stroking her back I asked her if she liked my c0ck...
> ...


I can't even imagine... No, you are NOT over-reacting. Honestly, I think if I gave the response she did, or didn't... that would be a mood killer for my husband. All she needed to do is say "yes, I like your c0ck"...or something like that. So sorry this happened to you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

7737 said:


> Whats in it for me? Two little people who mean more to me than anyone else in the whole world.
> 
> Sounds odd, but those of you out there with youngish children (ie. aged 8,9,10,11,12) will understand..... Young children believe in unconditional love.
> 
> ...


Ok, I am a mom of an 11 year old, 5 year old, and a 4 year old. If my husband and I were not sexually compatible, if we could not work things out in our relationship. I WOULD DIVORCE HIM! If I didn't love him, totally, and completely, I WOULD DIVORCE HIM. And we almost DID end up splitting up. It has nothing to do with the kids. I would rather they see mom and dad agreeing on how to raise them, but in HAPPY relationships, than to just stick it out for their sake. They would end up resenting us if that was the case. Fortunately, my husband and I were able to get things worked out... still a work in progress, but working things out. The point is that if you are only there because of the kids, then the kids are going to grow up thinking your marriage is the norm for everyone. Is that really what you want??


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

7737 said:


> Hell.....you 'Moms' and 'Pops' out there know exactly what I mean!


Your wife is a Mom and loves being with her children.
Why must you be sacrificing and not her?


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

I know I have choices....I can put up with, shut up and get on with life as it is.
I can seek sexual gratification elsewhere
I can divorce.

What I really want is for my wife to wake up sexually. To realise that sex is good, it bonds us, its OK to enjoy it, its OK to be adventurous and to realise that sex is a two way street.

To answer afew questions - yes, as I admitted in another post, I had an affair about ten years ago. Our daughter was about 10 months old and I had been completely sidelined by my wife. It was as if I didnt exist. I was 'vunerable'. I didn't go 'looking' for an affair. It was a work colleague....she started showing me some interest (which I hadn't got at home for months and months)...and it just went from there.
I know having a newborn in the house is hard work and priorities change...but not so completely and for so long.
My wife doesnt know about it. Am confident.

Leaving/Divorce - custody of children still favours the mother. We are currently expats in an African country...If I 'leave' she will take the children back to Germany. I have a good, safe and well paid job here...I will need to stay here to support them. I'd see the children maybe 2-3 times a year.

Atmosphere at home - this might be difficult to understand, but everything else about our marriage is generally OK. It is simply (and I use the word 'simply' loosely) the sex aspect. 
As someone mentioned...its as if her sex 'program' autodeleted the second our daughter was born.

We've done the MC bit....we each had weekly sessions then once a month a joint session. The MC covered all sorts of things....issues I had, she had in general etc. It was helpful. My wife 'lasted' about 10 months until the 'subject' of sex and showing love came up.
In my sessions it was explained to me how women see love - holding hands, spooning, being bought flowers etc.
I had to understand that men and women speak different love languages etc.

In my wifes sessions the counsellor started explaining the importance of sex as the language of love is to a man. 
In a joint session, the MC asked us how often we had sex....we were both honest and said about once a month. She then asked my wife how often she would like sex?...once a month. Then she asked me...Once/twice a week.
My wife was taken aback. She thought 1-2 a week was totally unreasonable and that once a month was absolutely fine.
She was not open to any kind of compromise....as she didnt think there was a problem. I was simply being unreasonable and all I wanted was sex.
She cancelled all her sessions with the MC after that and never returned. I still go twice a month....it helps ME.

So now I don't even mention sex.....I don't approach her, we don't talk about it...because all it leads to are arguments. I simply have to accept her the way she is....or leave.
So when she does cuddle up to me and starts playing with my 'unemployed little man' I make the most of it...because if I didn't I'd go mad!

Posting on TAM generates helpful comments (mostly)...people in the same position say how they deal with it....and its also a (very important) forum in which to simply let off steam.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

7737 said:


> As someone mentioned...its as if her sex 'program' autodeleted the second our daughter was born.


This is true, and why is it?
Many women use sex to get what they want in life... She wanted a man and a marriage and used sex to get it. She wanted a child or two and used sex to get it. Now she has what she wants and therefore has no need to be sexual. Rather than look at her like she is defective or non sexual, you should look at her as completely normal (which she is) and think about providing her a reason to be sexual.

You have to lead her through a series of though processes and discussions where she gets to admit to herself that she is wrong and you are right. And that she is jeopardizing her marriage and family through her actions. Very little of your discussions should be about sex itself and most of it should be about marriage. Are marriages sexual or non sexual? Do marriages involve both people meeting the needs of the other? Are her needs being met? What would she think if she were meeting your needs but you refused to meet hers? What would she do in that case.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Daffodilly - they come home every Friday late afternoon (about 6pm) and go back first thing Monday morning.

I hear exactly where you are coming from re custody etc...sadly where we are things are still generally stacked in the mothers favour.
A court order issued by the country (3rd world Africa) we live in wouldn't be enforceable in Germany....


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Sex for her is probably uninteresting because she isn't comfortable and it triggers a fear response. Why is that?

Start there.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Hicks said:


> This is true, and why is it?
> Many women use sex to get what they want in life... She wanted a man and a marriage and used sex to get it. She wanted a child or two and used sex to get it. Now she has what she wants and therefore has no need to be sexual. Rather than look at her like she is defective or non sexual, you should look at her as completely normal (which she is) and think about providing her a reason to be sexual.
> 
> You have to lead her through a series of though processes and discussions where she gets to admit to herself that she is wrong and you are right. And that she is jeopardizing her marriage and family through her actions. Very little of your discussions should be about sex itself and most of it should be about marriage. Are marriages sexual or non sexual? Do marriages involve both people meeting the needs of the other? Are her needs being met? What would she think if she were meeting your needs but you refused to meet hers? What would she do in that case.


 HIcks, 
as a woman, I agree with what you are saying.
7737,
There is a disconnect between the two of you that comes across on your posts.
I've read this before from other male posters, so it's not unusual. 
It's the "have sex with me because you should do it to meet my needs" without any sense of love, just obligation to fulfill the marriage needs.
I'm not going to argue if it's correct, it's just how some view it. 

For some people, it doesn't work. Their spouses don't ante up and put out just to simply meet their partner's needs.

Some spouses (male or female) need to feel that they are loved, wanted, respected, and not being used for sex. They won't do duty sex. Period. They don't like sex. Because it's not something that is comfortable, enjoyable. It makes them feel used.

Again, if you want to have a fulfilling marraige, have your wife want you, desire you, want to please you and make you happy, there are ways to do that. If she has not already put you in the no go zone, and no longer really loves you.... then you won't get to be part of her initmacy. She's in protect the soul and children mode at that point. 

If neither of you love each other deeply, I'm not sure how you are going to get a deep sexual connection. Fake is all you have, unless you committ emotionally. For most people.

What do you really want from your wife?


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

I want to 'click' with my wife. I want her to be able to see something (no matter how silly) and laugh so much she has tears streaming down her face...

I want us both to be able look at something and think the same thing...to be on the same 'page'....

I want her to have a 'spark'....yeah, why don't we make out in the middle of the garden (at night!)....why not get up for a slow dance and do a bit of 'grinding'...!! Have a laugh at my expense because I have a 'bulge' in my trousers!
Lets have a shower together...just like we used to in the early days.

Just because we are both in our 'later' 40's have two children etc doesnt mean we can't have fun anymore!

I want, and want to be (to her), a true partner. Laugh together, be angry together, chill together, cum together, cry together....

About 3 years ago I had some prostate 'discomfort'...I went and saw a specialist...yes it was swollen...I had further tests. I was worried...prime age for more 'serious' prostate problems etc. My wife knew when I was due to get the results...she didnt seem remotely bothered....three days after I got the results (just an infection - phew!) I got "ohhh!! Didnt you get your results afew days ago?"...

If she found a lump in a breast, I would be worried and concerned it might be something sinister....just as an enlarged prostate at 47 might be. Never occured to her.

If she was asked what she thought 'marriage' entailed she would say being together, doing things together etc etc. The idea of looking after each others sexual needs, even if they arent in tune with your own, simply wouldnt even enter the equation. 

She gives the outward impression that we are very happily married...because she thinks we are. There is absolutely nothing wrong atall with only being intimate with me once a month. And because she thinks there is nothing wrong, there is nothing that needs addressing.

Some women (and afew men) are like that. they are asexual.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

7737 said:


> I know I have choices....I can put up with, shut up and get on with life as it is.
> I can seek sexual gratification elsewhere
> I can divorce.
> 
> Posting on TAM generates helpful comments *(mostly)*...people in the same position say how they deal with it....and its also a (very important) forum in which to simply let off steam.


I see you are still exactly where you were a couple of months ago when you first posted about your sexless marriage. 

What are you doing to change the situation, other than coming to TAM to vent?

You were not receptive to my last comments, so I am expecting you will write this one off as well. 

This situation will not change without action on your part. 

You must lead.

You have summarized three of the four choices. The unwritten fourth option is do nothing, hope and whine.

What is your choice?

By the way, I think you should think long and hard about how you can reconcile being in an intimate relationship with a woman, having an affair and being convinced that there is no possibility that the same woman would know her man well enough to suspect an affair.

Are you still surprised that your wife doesn't seek intimate sexual relations on a regular basis?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I would recommend that you start monitoring her activities. There may be another person(s) with whom she may be having sex with. Many husbands often are dismayed to discover that their wives are not LD women but actually a HD women but only with other men.

Lack of desire for sex may be an indicator of many marital issues from physiological changes to unresolved resentment and also infidelity. You'd be smart to find out what is really causing your wife's lack of sexual desire for you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

7737 said:


> What I really want is for my wife to wake up sexually. To realise that sex is good, it bonds us, its OK to enjoy it, its OK to be adventurous and to realise that sex is a two way street.


And what if that never happens? What is the status quo continues?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

7737 said:


> Some women (and afew men) are like that. they are asexual.


You are making a huge mistake defining her as asexual.
You will find out one day that she is sexual. Either it will be with you or another man. Mark my words.

The productive way to look at things is that she has put the cork back on her bottle and you have not found the corkscrew yet. Be a man of action. If you live life with the attitude you portray in your posts (i.e I can't do anything about this, it's just the way it is, accepting defeat), it's no wonder your wife is not attracted to you.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You fear divorce because you believe that you would only see your kids 2 or 3 times a year if she moves back to Germany.

A long time ago, when I was married to my first wife (deceased R.I.P.) she sometimes tried to use the "I'll take the kids with me and you'll never see them again" card during heated arguments between us. Finally one day I simply replied back to her "Go ahead, I'll simply find myself another woman and have kids with her." The look of shock on her face was something I will never forget and needless to say she never again used that threat against me. Perhaps you need to grow a pair and convey the same to her.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Stop taking her words at face value, they're symptoms. When she says she doesn't like sex, most likely she doesn't like somethings she associates with sex. Like fear. Or arguing. Or being unfulfilled.

Stop talking in sentences that start with "I" and figure out what she really doesn't like.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

7737 said:


> To answer afew questions - yes, as I admitted in another post, I had an affair about ten years ago. Our daughter was about 10 months old and I had been completely sidelined by my wife. It was as if I didnt exist. I was 'vunerable'. I didn't go 'looking' for an affair. It was a work colleague....she started showing me some interest (which I hadn't got at home for months and months)...and it just went from there.
> I know having a newborn in the house is hard work and priorities change...but not so completely and for so long.
> My wife doesnt know about it. Am confident.


She may not know, but I would not be surprised if she felt something was wrong and withdrew from you. May well have kept a shield to protect herself.

I am not saying she is blameless, but I don't think it is automatic that she is some monster.


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

dblkman said:


> nothing worse than a "pity BJ"


Actually, a pity BJ is kinda like a mediocore pizza in that its...




STILL A PIZZA!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The reality here is that as long as he's not willing to walk, she has all the power and nothing will ever change. Only when you can show you're willing to give it all up, will she be motivated to make the required changes. She's got you by the balls and she knows it.

Seriously, I'm not sure why you would even ask for advice when there's no way you would be willing to take the best and most common advice.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

WorkingOnMe..... I'll tell you why....because I am $hit scared of losing my home and my children. 

Going through a divorce/separation etc is very traumatic, not just for the adults but in particular the children, especially if they are still young.
Yes people have done it, but I bet it was painful for all.

It is so much easier for people on the outside to say 'do this, do that'...but when its actually happeneing to you it is so much harder.

I'm human...I am frightened...

I come onto TAM because a problem shared is a problem halved...seeking a bit of support maybe...

If some think I am simply a pathetic, whining wimp who is an embarrassment to the macho male race then fine. We are all entitled to our opinions.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

7737 said:


> [...]
> 
> Manning up, being more forceful, talking about it etc is just met with 'all you want from me is sex'...or when she's feeling more 'charitable' *'I'm sorry, I just dont like it. I can't change who I am'...*


Did you have sex before you were married? If so perhaps she is suffering from depression or some other medical condition?? Hormone imbalance really can mess with a sex drive as well as some medicines, even OTC kinds.

I can understand your feeling pi$$ed that she made the comments she did as they were not what you wanted or needed to hear. But it does make me wonder if she is suffering from depression or something else. The others could well be right and she could just be a [fill in the blank with lots of suggested ideas posted here], but it is worth looking into. 

Divorce is a painful thing and I tend to think we need to look for some solutions first, as you have done here. So what do you have to loose by "gently" suggesting she have a check up to rule out medical causes first. And if she is medically good then getting her in to see a counselor. Again gently, no need to have her feel you think she broken just that you are concerned. 

I hope some of the posts here prove to be helpful for you. I am sorry your wife is having such a hard time with intimacy with you. It has to be painful for you. We all crave that closeness even if the drive is different for us all.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

LastDance - thanks. We had all her hormone levels etc checked about 3 years ago. All were fine. After the results, the specialist - an endocrinologist specialising in 'female' hormones asked that my wife go back to see her so that they could discuss ways of increasing her libido. My wife cancelled the appointment afew days before and never made a new one.

As mentioned previously we both went to MC but she stopped going when sex was brought up.

I think deep down she knows she has a problem with sex (she's likes spooning, hugs etc) but for some reason simply doesnt want to, or can't face to it or deal with it.
If we are 'spooning' and I get an erection she moves away.

I am quite confident she isnt getting sex elsewhere...she's not cunning or devious and I havent even had a shred of evidence or even a hunch.
If she was getting sex elsewhere then atleast I would know she's normal and that the problem is me!

Maybe if I said it was a make or break thing then she would be forced into 'dealing' with it. 

But it just doesnt bother her. Just as who wins the world cup doesnt bother me because I have zero interest in football.
Difference is that football has no impact on a marriage!!!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

7737 said:


> If she was getting sex elsewhere then atleast I would know she's normal and that the problem is me!


Your wife is already normal. A very high percentage of wives go non sexual in their marriage. The problem is not her. You are also normal/typical in that you don't realize that yes there are things you can do to change this. There's alot you can do before implementing a divorce.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

7737 said:


> LastDance - thanks. We had all her hormone levels etc checked about 3 years ago. All were fine. After the results, the specialist - an endocrinologist specialising in 'female' hormones asked that my wife go back to see her so that they could discuss ways of increasing her libido. My wife cancelled the appointment afew days before and never made a new one.
> 
> As mentioned previously we both went to MC but she stopped going when sex was brought up.
> 
> ...


I (was) a high drive woman. I initiated all the time. No problem. Mad or not. But when I got to the point of more than a year of behavior that simply did not change, and I sniffed infidelity... my sex drive stopped. Cold turkey. For HIM. 

It simply doesn't bother me either. I have ZERO interest in being a fvck buddy for anyone. Especially someone who is supposed to love me. Nothing wrong with my hormones. It's my morals getting in the way. 

Boy, do I recognize "there is nothing to address" and things are just fine. Cuz they are. Because the relationship is NOT a marriage, there is no love, there is no responsibility to make sure your spouse's needs are met. Not my problem. Don't love him that way. Been used too often. We get along just fine most of the time. I care about him getting hit by a bus, but I could care less if he's horny. He can go get laid anywhere. I'd rather give my heart to someone that won't stomp on it.

I hope your wife doesn't think this way.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

deejov said:


> I (was) a high drive woman. I initiated all the time. No problem. Mad or not. But when I got to the point of more than a year of behavior that simply did not change, and I sniffed infidelity... my sex drive stopped. Cold turkey. For HIM.
> 
> It simply doesn't bother me either. I have ZERO interest in being a fvck buddy for anyone. Especially someone who is supposed to love me. Nothing wrong with my hormones. It's my morals getting in the way.
> 
> ...



This could well be the case with the OP's wife, because he did mention having had an affair, and I can understand how this could spell death to someone's desire for their partner... 

If this is the case, he has two choices that I can see. Either continue as things are (not healthy, IMO), or divorce her (which he, understandably, doesn't want to do for fear of losing his children and his home). It could also be the case that the OP's wife is simply biding her time until the children are grown up before ending the marriage herself.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

7737 said:


> If some think I am simply a pathetic, whining wimp who is an embarrassment to the macho male race then fine. We are all entitled to our opinions.


Interesting words.

Sorry you aren't getting it. 

This isn't about being macho. It is about being authentic. 

Intimacy is built on trust. It is impossible to trust someone who isn't authentic.

Your wife doesn't trust you and her actions prove it.

Being authentic means honoring and owning your own desires and principles even when the potential cost is great.

See you in a month.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> This could well be the case with the OP's wife, because he did mention having had an affair, and I can understand how this could spell death to someone's desire for their partner...
> 
> If this is the case, he has two choices that I can see. Either continue as things are (not healthy, IMO), or divorce her (which he, understandably, doesn't want to do for fear of losing his children and his home). It could also be the case that the OP's wife is simply biding her time until the children are grown up before ending the marriage herself.


A third choice is he could be honest with her and admit his affair. Let her know what happened and the facts surrounding it. It gives her the option to decide is she wants to stay in the marriage. It also might prompt her to address the other issues that are certainly present in the marriage, including the lack of sex.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

7737 said:


> If some think I am simply a pathetic, whining wimp who is an embarrassment to the macho male race then fine. We are all entitled to our opinions.


Pay attention here!

Hey. I can see I'm not getting through to you. So let me tell you what I am. I'm fat and because I'm fat, I force my wife to resort to mental processes in order to have enough physical attraction to me that she will have sex with me.

I have control over whether I'm a wimp or a man though. When I realized this, I chose to be a man and use the realization to go out and buy a used treadmill for $50 so I could use it 10 minutes every morning, I stopped buying and drinking pop and I reduced my portions.

If I chose to be a wimp, I could come here and ask people what I should do - as though sympathy will make the fat go away. I would get suggestions and make excuses why I couldn't do them. If I bought the treadmill, I'd try to run on it and stop because my joints hurt too much from running and I just get too winded.

Now, for your part, don't you realize that the heart of your problem is very likely *not* that your wife doesn't want sex. She doesn't want to have sex with you.

Don't send yourself into a depressed state, consider that your root cause and make changes to fix it.

Realize something: Your wife loves you. She doesn't tell you that she doesn't want sex with you, instead she takes the blame by saying she doesn't want sex. She doesn't want to hurt your feelings.

You must love her because you don't want to become a man at her expense. What you don't realize is that you are chosing to not be a man, and making that choice still comes at her expense.

There are things you can do to become a man instead of a wimp that you CAN do without them being at her expense. (In a way, even the things you think would be done at her expense would end up benefitting her instead of harming her, but let's start easy just to get you on board with what everyone is telling you).

*10 SECOND KISS*

Will she kiss with you? Here's the goal: You will kiss her for 10 uninterupted seconds once per day. Then do NOT follow up with any attempt at ANYTHING sexual. No groping. No requests. No discussions. 

You will walk up to her, look her in the eyes, smile, hold her. You will lean in 90% of the way and wait for HER to bring herself the last 10%.

10 seconds is the goal. You might not get it at first. If nothing more than a peck, get that peck every day... let us know how it goes. Release her if she doesn't want anything to do with it, but if she stops and isn't in fear and it wasn't 10 seconds, you just tell her "That wasn't 10 seconds sweetheart." And you lean in 90% of the way again to start over.

*Recognize her fear response*

If you start this and you see that she's afraid, tell her what you're doing: Tell her that you want to kiss her every day for 10 seconds. Tell her you will not pressure her for sex, and when you have your daily 10 second kiss that rule will be absolutely sacred.

More important, recognize her fear response any time you hope for intimacy. Women only become intimate when they are comfortable. Reassure her by TELLING her what you will do, and if she's afraid TELL her you will stop.

*She wants sex*

You've done all the testing. She is not broken. Stop trying to treat her problem as if she's broken. She only is saying she doesn't want sex because she does not want to hurt your feelings, so respond to her statement as if she doesn't want sex with you, and you're the one that's broken. Fix you.

Don't ask her how to fix you. Your brokenness is your problem.

She gives you a monthly HJ because that is comfortable for her. 

Here's a summary of everything everyone has said here: You make it comfortable for her not to have sex with you and uncomfortable for her to have sex with you. If you want her to have sex with you, make that more comfortable than the current state of not having sex.

I understand you not wanting to hurt her by making her non-sexuality uncomfortable. Fine. At least make the idea of being more sexual become more comfortable.

The difference between wimp and man is not a hard thing to implement. For example: if the question is what's for dinner, the wimp will ask his wife "What do you want for dinner" but the man will TELL his wife "I want lasagne for dinner, I'm going to an italian restaurant, would you like to join me?"

You can be a wimp instead of a man with your children. If you hear them giving your wife a hard time, step in and take charge of them and tell your wife to let you handle it.


I want to hear you respond to this by saying what you will do. No more excuses please.

I'm not the expert, if my suggestions make sense to you, I'd suggest you find out more by reading Married Man's Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay which you can get by download on Amazon.com. This is the book that made the biggest difference for me. I hope that I've been able to get through to you... The fact is that whether your wife responds differently, the changes you can make will be good for you anyway.


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