# Am I Overreacting?



## ArthurGPym

So I have waited a while to post my current situation. I am hesitant, because I know what I should do, but I am hesitant to do it. I don’t know why I hesitate. She has given me no reason not to. I feel a fool and a chump, and I hate feeling this way and at the same time I feel like I cannot gain any traction. So here it goes.

I am a 54 year old retired guy. I was married back in the early ‘90s but that marriage only lasted four years. I’m not really a player, and although I have had many relationships over the years settling down was never really an option for me. That was until I met my current girlfriend (let’s call her Sarah) back in June 2019. We met at a backyard barbecue hosted by a mutual friend who worked with her. Sarah was 45 at the time, beautiful and vivacious. I had never met any woman quite like her and we hit it off. She really seemed to like me and for me it was lust at first sight. We went out on our first date the next week and dated exclusively from that point on.

Sarah was married for twenty years before divorcing her husband in 2018. She has two teenage boys and she shares joint custody with her husband. I live one town over from Sarah, and since we started dating she has driven from her town to mine (about 25 miles) to spend weekends with me. Sometimes, when her ex-husband and sons were out of town, I would travel over to her place and we would hit the town and have fun. Sarah is very outgoing and has a huge circle of friends, most of them married couples. It seemed like every weekend I went there she had some plans for us to go to different social activities with her circle of friends. That was fine with me because I’m a sociable guy and I like people. I was accepted by the group and became good friends with several of the husbands. As I said I am retired, so I would hang out with these guys and play golf occasionally.

I never put any pressure on Sarah when it came to our dating. I never made any demands, and that is what she says she loved about me. If a particular weekend came and she wasn’t in the mood for company, I didn’t go see her. When the Covid lockdown hit we continued our relationship by Skyping every night and then continuing on with seeing each other when the restrictions lifted. There were no problems really. As for commitment, she told me many times that she was not looking for a husband, but just wanted to enjoy the kind of easy going relationship we had. In March of last year was when she told me for the first time that she loved me, and even though she was not in any hurry to settle down again, I was definitely the man she would want to spend the rest of her life with. Up until recently sex was frequent and very good. We are definitely compatible in bed, so that’s not an issue.

Now comes the issue and my dilemma. I asked her many times over the past year and a half if she considered us an exclusive couple. I told her back in March 2020 that I needed to know if she was dating other men so that I could feel free to date other women if I wanted. She vehemently told me “No! I only want to date you.” And that is when she told me she loved me, and I reciprocated because I do. But then something happened last month that has put our good relationship into a tailspin. On May 10th, 2021, Sarah’s ex-mother in law died of a sudden heart attack. She and her ex-in-laws had remained very close after her divorce from their son, and the news hit her hard. The ex-MIL was like a mom to her and the loss devastated her. I drove to see her and held her for hours while she cried into my chest. I did what I could to help the family prepare for the old woman’s funeral. I sat with her ex-FIL who is a wheelchair bound Korean war vet with dementia, and kept him distracted while Sarah and her ex-husband went to the funeral home and made arrangements. Over the next week I drove to her house every evening to console her and the boys. I cooked her and the boys dinner and then drove back home each night.

I was invited to the funeral so I went. This was when I first realized that something was off. I sat in the back while Sarah sat next to her ex-husband and the boys with the family. I stayed to the side during most of the proceedings, talking to Sarah’s friends and chatting with people who had come to pay their respects, but Sarah barely spoke to me during the whole day. She never left her ex-husband’s side, and they even held hands at the burial. It was weird. I felt like an interloper. Then at the reception it was the same thing. I went up to Sarah a couple times and tried to give her a hug but it seemed like she didn’t want me to. I milled around with some people in the back yard. Then I went inside and helped with dishes. I could see Sarah and her ex sitting on the living room couch talking to people. They looked like a married couple. I know it sounds petty but I started to get really mad. I’m one of those guys who retreats into myself when I am angry, so I just kept my head down and we finished cleaning the kitchen. I told Sarah’s boys I was leaving and gave them hugs and then I went to Sarah and told her I was heading home. She looked irritated and asked me why I was leaving. She told me not to leave and said she wanted to spend some time with me and if I would just wait she would get with me. Well I waited another hour and she never did. She sat with her ex and talked long into the evening with some people I didn’t know. Finally, I just grabbed my keys and left. It was probably a juvenile move but I was hurt and disappointed.

I drove a half hour back home and did not receive a call from her until another half hour after that. “Where are you? Where did you go?” she demanded angrily. I told her it was very late and that I wanted to get back home before midnight because I had to get up early the next day to meet with a mortgage agent to start the process of refinancing my house (which was true). She asked me why I was mad and I denied it (I was). She knew I was lying, and asked me what my problem was and why I was acting like a child on a day when she was trying to concentrate on her family. I didn’t know what to say so I just apologized to her for not saying good night and we talked about a couple more things and then she hung up. Since that night things between us have been tense. I went to see her the next weekend and she was somewhat cold and distant, but weirdly the sex was off the charts good. Really hot. Afterwards she told me that she could only see me that night because she was going with her ex-husband to church the next day to see their oldest boy baptized. I asked if I could come and she made up some excuse as to why I shouldn’t and that pissed me off. So I just got up to go home. She kissed me goodnight and she told me she was sorry if she was being *****y but that her ex-MIL’s death was hitting her hard. I told her I wanted to be there for her but she keeps pushing me away. She denied that and told me she loves me and that I need to be patient with her.

Then this past weekend I asked her if she wanted to come over and she said no, that she had plans, but that she promised she would spend the 4th of July weekend with me. Well since this past Sunday I have not heard from her. This past Monday I joined this group and I’m now I’m here looking for advice. I think she is back with her ex-husband and won’t admit it. I want to confront her but have no real evidence other than her behavior to back up my suspicions. Am I being a big selfish baby? Should I just back off and let her do what she is going to do? I don’t want people thinking I am trying to control her. I have no desire to control her. In fact the whole thing about our relationship she loved is how chill I have tried to be around her. No expectations or demands. But the way she flat out ignored me at the funeral really hit me hard, or am I overacting about that whole thing?

Look I know she and her husband have a long history, but they divorced amicably and during the time I have been dating her the ex has not really been a factor up until his mom died. I know that I don’t have a claim on Sarah, but dang! we expressed our commitment to each other. I really love this woman and I saw a future with her. Maybe she doesn’t love me as much as she thought she did. Or maybe she has just been playing me for a fool this whole time? Using me as a stopgap until she could get back with her husband?

She texted me “good morning Huggy” for the first time in three days this morning. I don’t even know if I want to answer her. Part of me says end this stupid charade and move on, and the other part of me says to answer the text. As much as I understand she is grieving, I have that gut feeling she is two-timing me. No actual proof. Should I trust my gut? I have read many threads on this site and that seems to be the consensus. Should I break it off for good with her, or just pull way back and wait to see what she does? There are too many red flags for me to ignore. She seems overtly preoccupied with her ex-husband and that should be the writing on the wall. I think I want to play it cool and not chase her. I'm going to back off and see if she chases me or comes after me to know why I am not kissing her ass.


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## colingrant

If you've dated lots of women, you know what's going on. This is a classic case of a person trying to resolve feelings for two people. Slowly (just don't call) remove yourself from the situation and tell her you can see she's conflicted with something and you'll be there for her when she needs you. This avoids the debate of her confliction. No need to argue or debate this fact when you can see it. 

No emotion. No anger. No regrets. If it gets more intense, just say you understand (whatever she tells you) and than when she's ready to be with you whether exclusively, part-time, full-time or FWB you'll take that up when YOU'RE ready. In the meantime, wish her the best and extend her the best before it gets ugly. These situations are never easy and the person who's torn between two people often doesn't have the wherewithal to be truthful, which to be honest I understand.

They're mixed up and can't decide but doesn't want to neither. I was in this situation twice. The first time, I had an inkling then got a handle on things. I friend zoned my FIANCE and started asking her how she's doing with the other guy. She had been hinting and brining his name up so I figured if she has the balls to tell me he's interested in her without telling him she was with me, then I'll have the balls to ask her how she's making out with him because she's no longer with me. 

I had in effect dislodged myself from her emotional hold and postured myself at an arms length disinterested, but supportive friend. Tables turned big time. This made her extremely mad, as it conveyed her hold on me had broken and therefor her telling me about the other man had zero effect (which was true). Game over. For me it was equivalent to a virus that had broken, by antibiotics where I felt better and quite healthy after not being myself for weeks.

The second time this was pulled on me I just stopped calling and getting together. Nothing brilliantly done. Just the discipline of following my gut and not breaking no contact. Stayed no contact for weeks until she reached out. I was gone by then. Met my current wife six months later and the rest is history.

Keeping things simple by acting without having to tell her why and what you're doing keeps you in control and deciding how YOU want things to go. Amazing what more action and less words can do.


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## Lostinthought61

Welcome Arthur,

this si definitely a tricky situation...i think that you might be right that she might have spent more time with the ex emotionally., physically or both....guilt is probably playing in that role with her on some level. She was suppose to be at your place this weekend, so i would play it cool right now and respond casually and see if she plans on coming or not. If she does come, i would then have the conversation face to face whether she has been physical with her ex? and where you two stand....if that comes to pass she is sleeping with him i would tell her then neither of you are exclusive and you are open to see others as well...i think this will really piss her off.

P.S. If she is back with ex...it will not last long because the reason they divorce in the first place is probably unresolved and will come back to haunt them again. But she needs to know you are not going to wait and just move on


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## BigDaddyNY

My opinion, the death of her MIL (her children's' grand mother) may have caused her to feel conflicted about her ex-H, but it could also just be plain old grief from losing a loved one. That loved one happens to be her ex's mom, so they have a shared grief.

If you want the relationship to continue you have to be careful. You need to make sure she understands you feel for her loss and can understand the grief she is feeling. Let her know that she seems to have been distancing which is probably due to the grief she is feel, but you don't want to lose her and you want to be there for her. However, you also need to let her know that you are concerned about what appears to be more than just a shared grief between her and her ex. It is understandable that this could happen given the circumstances, but you just want her to be honest about her feelings and where she stands on your relationship. Tell her you really want there for her and her to be with you on the holiday weekend.

This is a tough situation, no doubt.


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## jlg07

So, I guess if you really need to find out, you could always hire a PI to investigate if they are getting together while you are not around. BUT that does have a big risk if she finds out and she was NOT doing anything.


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## BigDaddyNY

jlg07 said:


> So, I guess if you really need to find out, you could always hire a PI to investigate if they are getting together while you are not around. BUT that does have a big risk if she finds out and she was NOT doing anything.


Not a bad idea, but they are only dating. A PI would be a bit much for a dating relationship that is only a little over a year old being exclusive, IMO


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## Evinrude58

You e analyzed it correctly. She’s wanting to get back with her ex. Anytime a woman “makes plans” the next weekend without you and spends the whole day talking with her ex and holding hands while you are treated like some chump that’s there to chauffeur her—- she has her mind on another man and it’s obvious who it is. I personally would advise you to stop chasing her totally. Only respond if she does. Make her work her way back to YOU if she wants to. Don’t play the pick me dance. I think I’d move on if I were you.


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## jlg07

BDNY, I agree, but if they are that much in love (as he described), it IS important to him. If HE needs to know to resolve his feelings here, I don't see a problem.


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## ArthurGPym

I texted her back good morning and that was it. No response. Well, I'm not playing schoolyard games with her. I'm going to hold back and go on with my life. If she wants to chase me she can, if she doesn't then I have my answer.


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## Evinrude58

The four magic words a woman gives to show you her true thoughts: “I already have plans”
If they didn’t Involve the ex, she’s have told you all about her plans and you’d already know. You don’t know her plans because she hasn’t discussed them. Bad sign.
Again, chasing never ever works.


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## re16

Trust your gut here, you know what is going on. 

Why did they get divorced?

Does the ex husband know who you are and what your relationship is with this woman?


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## jlg07

I agree -- you are together and involved, and her answer about an ENTIRE weekend is "I already have plans" -- with NO further explanation? The normal would be "Oh, I have to do .....". If she didn't volunteer it, it's probably because she is doing something with the exH (and maybe also the kids -- getting "their" family back together).


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## Rob_1

My advice: move on. It seems right now that you're just plan B. Regardless if she eventually wants to come back, the cat is out of the bag. Find someone that will seriously be into you.


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## jsmart

Spending time with her ex could bring up feelings of nostalgia for him. Being there for him in his time of need, can elicit the internal caretaker that lurks in most women. With their long history, it can be easy to fall back into a pattern that can lead to confusing feelings.

You have to walk delicately because she has already said she doesn’t want to be exclusive so you don’t want to push her away. This is a time to lay back and get busy with your life. I know it seems counterintuitive but if you act like you’re not phased, she will wonder if she’s losing you and will up her efforts with you. If not, then you know she’s gone. Either way, it’s best to dial back your availability. Give her chance to miss you.


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## Livvie

I'm divorced. I love my ex MIL. But no WAY would I behave like I was still a couple with my ex. Everything you described would make this a done relationship, for me.

Ask yourself.... if the ex were remarried, would he have acted the same way with your girlfriend? I'm betting it would be a resounding no. It's sad the MIL died, but that's no reason for exs to act like they are a couple.


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## Andy1001

One thing that the op hasn’t mentioned is has the ex husband a girlfriend or has he been dating. Maybe he’s been hoping for reconciliation and he sees the death of his mother as the perfect opportunity. 
Either way at her age she’s too old for teenage dating games. She’s either your girlfriend or she’s not and in your shoes I would ring her and ask.
Also quit with the texting and talk to each other. You will soon no exactly where you stand especially if she won’t take your call.


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## Openminded

No. You’re not overreacting.


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## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> I texted her back good morning and that was it. No response. Well, I'm not playing schoolyard games with her. I'm going to hold back and go on with my life. If she wants to chase me she can, if she doesn't then I have my answer.


Just curious, why did she get divorced? You said it was amicable, but no reason.


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## Evinrude58

Andy1001 said:


> One thing that the op hasn’t mentioned is has the ex husband a girlfriend or has he been dating. Maybe he’s been hoping for reconciliation and he sees the death of his mother as the perfect opportunity.
> Either way at her age she’s too old for teenage dating games. She’s either your girlfriend or she’s not and in your shoes I would ring her and ask.
> Also quit with the texting and talk to each other. You will soon no exactly where you stand especially if she won’t take your call.


Problem is, she’s saying one thing and doing Another. I don’t think he’d get the truth from her.


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## frenchpaddy

Andy1001 said:


> One thing that the op hasn’t mentioned is has the ex husband a girlfriend or has he been dating. Maybe he’s been hoping for reconciliation and he sees the death of his mother as the perfect opportunity.
> Either way at her age she’s too old for teenage dating games. She’s either your girlfriend or she’s not and in your shoes I would ring her and ask.
> Also quit with the texting and talk to each other. You will soon no exactly where you stand especially if she won’t take your call.


the ex could have a girl and still cheat on her ,


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## Marc878

You are correct. Right now you are a chump. That can only happen if you allow it. You’re fairly young but at your age life is short. Right now you seem to be living on hopium that she’ll wake up and be what you want. Fat chance. How much time are you gonna waste on hoping she gets it.

From your post she doesn’t give a damn about you and never will.

like most you have trouble making a decision so you’ll keep yourself bound up in this. What’s that gonna get you?


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## DudeInProgress

ArthurGPym said:


> I texted her back good morning and that was it. No response. Well, I'm not playing schoolyard games with her. I'm going to hold back and go on with my life. If she wants to chase me she can, if she doesn't then I have my answer.


This is essentially correct. Don’t chase her and get on with your life.
It doesn’t have to be all or nothing though. If she comes back around and you’re not sure of things, just demote her from committed girlfriend to a girl you date.


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## Marc878

You don’t need a confrontation just ghost her and move on. Her words aren’t going to mean a thing. Her actions tell you everything you needed to know.

The biggest mistake you could make at this time is not believing what you’ve seen.

Don’t worry about pushing her away. She’s gone. You were just a rebound.


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## Mr.Married

You already witnessed the truth ....... you only need now to accept it.


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## ArthurGPym

re16 said:


> Trust your gut here, you know what is going on.
> 
> Why did they get divorced?
> 
> Does the ex husband know who you are and what your relationship is with this woman?


From what she told me they had grown apart and were constantly fighting over kids, finances, etc. According to her the relationship had grown toxic. She never told me if any infidelity was involved, but I never asked either.

Her husband is fully aware. He has a girlfriend whom he openly dates and I am acquainted with her. I have thought about giving her a call to see if she knows what is up.


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## jsmart

BigDaddyNY said:


> Just curious, why did she get divorced? You said it was amicable, but no reason.


If you’re on here long enough, you know that it rarely amicable. Usually one party really wants to stay married. Could there have been adultery or abuse that broke them up? With over 70 percent of divorces initiated by women, statistically it’s likely that she left him. If so, was she opened to another attempt? The fact that she didn’t want to be exclusive leads me to believe that she wanted to keep her dating options open but seeing how quickly she went into family mode, maybe she wanted to keep the door open for her ex. 

Of course this is all speculation and she could just be providing pitty support to her ex out of guilt or misplaced loyalty but is deep down chomping at the bit to get back with OP. Either way, it’s best to get busy with life. If she comes around, cool; if not, no skin off your back.


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## ArthurGPym

jsmart said:


> Spending time with her ex could bring up feelings of nostalgia for him. Being there for him in his time of need, can elicit the internal caretaker that lurks in most women. With their long history, it can be easy to fall back into a pattern that can lead to confusing feelings.
> 
> You have to walk delicately because s*he has already said she doesn’t want to be exclusive* so you don’t want to push her away. This is a time to lay back and get busy with your life. I know it seems counterintuitive but if you act like you’re not phased, she will wonder if she’s losing you and will up her efforts with you. If not, then you know she’s gone. Either way, it’s best to dial back your availability. Give her chance to miss you.


No she was the one who brought up exclusivity last year when I broached the subject. I was ready to go either way but she said she only wanted us to date each other and that is when she admitted she had fallen in love with me. Now? I'm not sure. Maybe it was just infatuation and this family tragedy has snapped her out of it. Maybe it was only a one-way love affair.


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## ArthurGPym

Andy1001 said:


> One thing that the op hasn’t mentioned is has the ex husband a girlfriend or has he been dating. Maybe he’s been hoping for reconciliation and he sees the death of his mother as the perfect opportunity.
> Either way at her age she’s too old for teenage dating games. She’s either your girlfriend or she’s not and in your shoes I would ring her and ask.
> Also quit with the texting and talk to each other. You will soon no exactly where you stand especially if she won’t take your call.


Yes he has a girlfriend. She's younger than Sarah and quite hot.


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## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> You are correct. Right now you are a chump. That can only happen if you allow it. You’re fairly young but at your age life is short. Right now you seem to be living on hopium that she’ll wake up and be what you want. Fat chance. How much time are you gonna waste on hoping she gets it.
> 
> From your post she doesn’t give a damn about you and never will.
> 
> like most you have trouble making a decision so you’ll keep yourself bound up in this. What’s that gonna get you?


Yeah I know I'm being led around by the nose and I need to go cold turkey off her. But I have invested a lot to end it all over for what right now are just assumptions. That is why I am pulling back and watching. But I won't wait forever.


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## ArthurGPym

DudeInProgress said:


> This is essentially correct. Don’t chase her and get on with your life.
> It doesn’t have to be all or nothing though. If she comes back around and you’re not sure of things, just demote her from committed girlfriend to a girl you date.


I like this idea. Maybe it is time to put myself back out on the pasture.


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## Diana7

No one here can possibly know what is going on. Its so soon after they both lost someone they love, which may well have bought them closer but I doubt they are back into a relationship of that sort. Grief is a horrible thing, and you have given her no time to process it. Just stay friendly and see what happens is my advise. 
In my opinion it was a mistake for you to go to the funeral being that you had never met the lady.


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## ArthurGPym

Yeah I have waded into the river too deeply. I'm going to pull way back and give her space. If she wants to contact me she can. I won't be rude or mean. I have treated her with kid gloves so far and I won't change that. I did know the MIL by the way and interacted with her many times.


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> No she was the one who brought up exclusivity last year when I broached the subject. I was ready to go either way but she said she only wanted us to date each other and that is when she admitted she had fallen in love with me. Now? I'm not sure. Maybe it was just infatuation and this family tragedy has snapped her out of it. Maybe it was only a one-way love affair.


One thing is words don’t necessarily mean much. Her actions do.


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## Marc878

Diana7 said:


> No one here can possibly know what is going on. Its so soon after they both lost someone they love, which may well have bought them closer but I doubt they are back into a relationship of that sort. Grief is a horrible thing, and you have given her no time to process it. Just stay friendly and see what happens is my advise.
> In my opinion it was a mistake for you to go to the funeral being that you had never met the lady.


The signs don’t lie. Shes self centered. It’s all about her and no one else matters much. Let her go. You can do better than this.


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## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> The signs don’t lie. Shes self centered. It’s all about her and no one else matters much. Let her go. You can do better than this.


This was the first time since we went exclusive that she has acted this way. Before her MIL died Sarah couldn't seem to get enough of me. She texted me twenty times a day, sexted me, sent me dirty pics of herself, brought homecooked meals for me to eat on weekends when she would come see me, and treated me like her king. Then SLAM! Down came the door and I'm on the outside looking in. It sucks. It hurts. You seem to have a love-killswitch embedded in your brain. I don't.


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> This was the first time since we went exclusive that she has acted this way. Before her MIL died Sarah couldn't seem to get enough of me. She texted me twenty times a day, sexted me, sent me dirty pics of herself, brought homecooked meals for me to eat on weekends when she would come see me, and treated me like her king. Then SLAM! Down came the door and I'm on the outside looking in. It sucks. It hurts. You seem to have a love-killswitch embedded in your brain. I don't.


Nope. I’m just not up close and personal to this like you are. I’m just stating what I’m seeing in your posts.

Most in your position either can’t or don’t want to see reality. I hope I’m wrong for your sake but….


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## Diana7

Marc878 said:


> The signs don’t lie. Shes self centered. It’s all about her and no one else matters much. Let her go. You can do better than this.


She is grieving.


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## ArthurGPym

The reason I am sure she is back with the ex husband is because the waterfall of love has been shut off to a trickle, literally over the course of a week; kind of like when the Army Core of Engineers diverted Niagara Falls back in 1969 in order to clean the trash. Who does this unless they have found a new person to focus their love on? I am thinking I was a surrogate for her husband. It is already evening and she still ahs not contacted me since this morning. This is so frustrating.


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## Diana7

ArthurGPym said:


> This was the first time since we went exclusive that she has acted this way. Before her MIL died Sarah couldn't seem to get enough of me. She texted me twenty times a day, sexted me, sent me dirty pics of herself, brought homecooked meals for me to eat on weekends when she would come see me, and treated me like her king. Then SLAM! Down came the door and I'm on the outside looking in. It sucks. It hurts. You seem to have a love-killswitch embedded in your brain. I don't.


Give her time. Loosing some one you love is a shock and she was also her children's grandparent.


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## ArthurGPym

Diana7 said:


> She is grieving.


Maybe. I will give her the benefit of the doubt. That is why I will refrain from making an ass out of myself.


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## Diana7

ArthurGPym said:


> The reason I am sure she is back with the ex husband is because the waterfall of love has been shut off to a trickle, literally over the course of a week; kind of like when the Army Core of Engineers diverted Niagara Falls back in 1969 in order to clean the trash. Who Does this unless they have found a new person to focus their love on? I am thinking I was a surrogate for her husband. It is already evening and she still ahs not contacted me since this morning. This is so frustrating.


If that's what you think then just ask her.


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## ArthurGPym

Sorry guys. I know you are trying to help. I'm three gin and tonics into my evening and I'm pissed.


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## ABHale

This wouldn’t be the first time that the death of a loved one has killed a relationship. 

She is grieving, so why didn’t she turn to the one she said she is in love with for comfort? We turn to one ones we love when we lose a loved one. She is showing you who she loves and doesn’t.


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## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> Sorry guys. I know you are trying to help. I'm three gin and tonics into my evening and I'm pissed.



Make sure you don’t talk with her at the present.


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## Marc878

Diana7 said:


> She is grieving.


So. You can grieve and not act like an ass. I wouldn’t put myself in limbo over this.


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## ArthurGPym

ABHale said:


> This wouldn’t be the first time that the death of a loved one has killed a relationship.
> 
> She is grieving, so why didn’t she turn to the one she said she is in love with for comfort? We turn to one ones we love when we lose a loved one. She is showing you who she loves and doesn’t.


Yeah you hit the nail on the head.


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## Marc878

Sounds like you haven’t known her all that long. This maybe another side of her you haven’t seen. Many get blindsided. There are no excuses for what you’ve posted. None. If you accept it then expect to get more.

You do teach people how they can treat you. Look back and read your first post. She treated you as if you didn’t exist. If you want more of that then take it and say nothing.

There is nothing wrong with standing up, highlighting what you got and just say I’m not taking that from you or anyone else. Bud, living the life of a doormat is a thankless task.

Not to mention after ignoring you the whole day she expects you to do as you’re told and gets mad when you leave? Yet you said nothing? Why? Is she really worth that much more than you?

Oh but she was grieving and had the right to ignore you while cozying up to her x husband. Where is that written?


----------



## Diana7

Marc878 said:


> So. You can grieve and not act like an ass. I wouldn’t put myself in limbo over this.





Marc878 said:


> Sounds like you haven’t known her all that long. This maybe another side of her you haven’t seen. Many get blindsided. There are no excuses for what you’ve posted. None. If you accept it then expect to get more.
> 
> You do teach people how they can treat you. Look back and read your first post. She treated you as if you didn’t exist. If you want more of that then take it and say nothing.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with standing up, highlighting what you got and just say I’m not taking that from you or anyone else. Bud, living the life of a doormat is a thankless task.
> 
> Not to mention after ignoring you the whole day she expects you to do as your told and gets mad when you leave? Yet you said nothing? Why? Is she really worth that much more than you?
> 
> Oh but she was grieving and had the right to ignore you while cozying up to her x husband. Where is that written?


2 years is a fair time.


----------



## Marc878

When you see this type of behavior it is part of who they are. It just doesn’t happen. Don’t expect someone of her age to change either.

I hope it works out for you but don’t let hopium cloud your judgement. I promise you she isn’t the only woman in the world.


----------



## Marc878

2 years is a peehole in a snowbank.


----------



## Evinrude58

beware of women that fall madly in love very quickly. They fall out just as fast. Narcissistic discard possibility here.


----------



## jsmart

ArthurGPym said:


> Yes he has a girlfriend. She's younger than Sarah and quite hot.


That her ex has a hot younger girlfriend that he’s willing to toss to the side for her can also be a strong lure. That her ex is turning to and leaning on her will bring her nurturing side. 

We have had threads where a WW will get attached to their patient. Quite a few of these were with men that were a big step down from their BH. Feeling needed can be a powerful attraction to some. It happens to men too. How many captain save a ... or white knights get lured to woman that’s obviously trouble?


----------



## Diana7

Marc878 said:


> 2 years is a peehole in a snowbank.


Not for us. We were married in less than a year. No regrets.


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> beware of women that fall madly in love very quickly. They fall out just as fast. Narcissistic discard possibility here.


Doesn't sound as if it was that quickly.


----------



## Offkilter123

Diana7 said:


> No one here can possibly know what is going on. Its so soon after they both lost someone they love, which may well have bought them closer but I doubt they are back into a relationship of that sort. Grief is a horrible thing, and you have given her no time to process it. Just stay friendly and see what happens is my advise.
> In my opinion it was a mistake for you to go to the funeral being that you had never met the lady.


You don’t go to funerals for the dead person because hello, the are dead! You go to funerals to support the living. If having to have known the person who died was a requirement to go to a funeral then people would stop having funerals.


----------



## GusPolinski

It’s likely just the hurt and trauma of loss throwing a wrench into everything. Either way, here’s what you do…

Respond to the text and ask her if you’re still on for this weekend. If she says no, drop her. If she says yes, roll with it, and find a way to ask her over the weekend if she’s been seeing her ex. If she says yes, or if she says no but seems like she’s lying, drop her.

If you make it through all that and everything seems legit, again, it’s just the loss of her ex-MIL getting to her.

ETA: I’ve not read beyond the iniitial post.


----------



## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> The reason I am sure she is back with the ex husband is because the waterfall of love has been shut off to a trickle, literally over the course of a week; kind of like when the Army Core of Engineers diverted Niagara Falls back in 1969 in order to clean the trash. Who Does this unless they have found a new person to focus their love on? I am thinking I was a surrogate for her husband. It is already evening and she still ahs not contacted me since this morning. This is so frustrating.



It could be that she turned her love back to her ex and he has no clue about it. Her shutting down with you could be her feeling like she is cheating on her ex with you. 

You said that they grew apart and divorced. I wonder if this is how she treated her ex at times and it just kept getting worse.


----------



## ccpowerslave

ArthurGPym said:


> You seem to have a love-killswitch embedded in your brain. I don't.


A coincidence that Killswitch Engage provides The End of Heartache? I think not...

Anyway it sounds like you’re already doing the right thing, feign disinterest and hit the gym. Let her come to you if she wants you.


----------



## Diana7

Offkilter123 said:


> You don’t go to funerals for the dead person because hello, the are dead! You go to funerals to support the living. If having to have known the person who died was a requirement to go to a funeral then people would stop having funerals.


No point in going if you never knew the person. It's going to remember the one who died, the one who the op had never even seen.


----------



## Evinrude58

Diana7 said:


> No point in going if you never knew the person. It's going to remember the one who died, the one who the op had never even seen.


That’s crazy. You go to show the people grieving that you care about them AND to remember the one who passed and e change stories or see them one last time.


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah I know I'm being led around by the nose and I need to go cold turkey off her. *But I have invested a lot to end it all over for what right now are just assumptions.* That is why I am pulling back and watching. But I won't wait forever.


??.....you just met her in 2019... two years ago. Are you saying you've invested a lot of money? Assumptions is a word you can use, or you can use clues that are picked up by your gut. You actually know what's going on and what you have to do, but your heart is kicking your minds ass and that's the problem. 

You're in your 50's. You have no time for bullxxxx from someone with unresolved feelings. If you aren't firm, she'll have you questioning your worth and compromising your self respect. I was cheated on over 20 years ago. I don't have the chip dangling off my shoulder from a recent heartbreak. I just know the game and I know the weakness and selfishness of waywards who are in limbo.

They wake up wondering how they can avoid having to make a decision and prefer that some dynamic happens that forces them to do so or someone does it for them. Their limbo will have you wishing, hoping, competing and being happy at the bone they'll throw from time to time to keep you happy. It's your choice, but the choice is better made when you're dignity is in tact, and emotions are in check. It shouldn't be necessary to wait until she tells you directly. If you know, you know. Respond accordingly.


----------



## colingrant

I just happened to click on a story and read the last post of six made by a guy whose wife was conflicted. Here's his sixth and final one.
-------------------------------------------
Took some of the advice I found here. I spent a lot of time thinking about what my life would be like should this marriage fail. The world will not come crashing down on my head, I will survive. I know I could find love again. I realized that I couldn’t let fear paralyze me.

I sat down with Jeri last Thursday and laid it out. I kept my cool, my voice even and regular, no tearing up. I told her, “Well you need to make a decision then. Either you commit to working on yourself and our marriage, or I’ll make it easy on you and leave. There’s no pressure. I will not break down and beg, or plead. I don’t want you to stay with me because you feel responsible for me. The last thing I want is your pity.”

“I’ve worked out the financials, and both of us could easily make it on our own salaries. I’ll even help you find a roommate so you can keep the apartment.”

Then she says, “Sounds like you’re already making plans for separation.”

I replied, “Let me make one thing clear. More than anything I want a loving, happy future with you as my wife. But I am prepared for whatever happens. I will not be a victim.”

Then I asked her to imagine herself as a happier person, a person not plagued by negative thoughts and emotions, would that future include me? She indicated that she wanted that more than anything. I said if you want to work it out and continue to build a life with me then I have conditions.

A. You will discontinue all contact with Warren, period. Not even a parting message saying you’re no longer going to have contact with him.

B. You will immediately give me your FB and email passwords, there will be total transparency.

C. You will arrange to begin seeing a counselor this coming week.

She agreed to my conditions and she has an appointment with a licensed psychologist the day after tomorrow.
---------------------------------------------

I realize all situations are different but I also realize all situations have some common elements to them. His response contains some things that may help you with your approach. Good luck.


----------



## Al_Bundy

You said you were exclusive after a week. So you got off to a bad start by showing her you didn't have much else for options. She probably love bombed you and screwed your brains out. I get it. 

As other have mentioned you need to back away and do a soft next. That doesn't mean be a jerk but it also doesn't mean avoid confrontation or wuss out. You need to start getting other options going. Options is plural, more than one chick this time so you don't get sucked in again.


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> That’s crazy. You go to show the people grieving that you care about them AND to remember the one who passed and e change stories or see them one last time.


We will have to agree to differ on that one.


----------



## Diana7

Al_Bundy said:


> You said you were exclusive after a week. So you got off to a bad start by showing her you didn't have much else for options. She probably love bombed you and screwed your brains out. I get it.
> 
> As other have mentioned you need to back away and do a soft next. That doesn't mean be a jerk but it also doesn't mean avoid confrontation or wuss out. You need to start getting other options going. Options is plural, more than one chick this time so you don't get sucked in again.


Al, many of us believe that when you date someone you don't two time them. You don't date several people at a time.
I wouldn't be interested in a man who thought it was acceptable to treat me that way, maybe the op is similar?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Arthur, where was the ex husband gf during all of this, was she at the funeral or the house afterwards?
It would be interesting if you contacted her and see if she got the cold shoulder as well. Compare notes if you will....how I see it you are potentially both in the same boat.


----------



## Blondilocks

Diana7 said:


> *No point in going if you never knew the person. It's going to remember the one who died, the one who the op had never even seen.*





ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah I have waded into the river too deeply. I'm going to pull way back and give her space. If she wants to contact me she can. I won't be rude or mean. I have treated her with kid gloves so far and I won't change that. * I did know the MIL by the way and interacted with her many times.*


----------



## MissyP

Sorry you are dealing with this, you are not overreacting. I would keep in mind the fact the there is no way she could not know that this behavior is inconsiderate and hurtful to you. So regardless of what she is actually doing, she knows you will be feeling confused and frustrated. Do you want to be with someone who is like that, because in my experience this kind of game playing is not a one time event, it's a part of someone's personality.


----------



## Evinrude58

MissyP said:


> Sorry you are dealing with this, you are not overreacting.* I would keep in mind the fact the there is no way she could not know that this behavior is inconsiderate and hurtful to you. *So regardless of what she is actually doing, she knows you will be feeling confused and frustrated. Do you want to be with someone who is like that, because in my experience this kind of game playing is not a one time event, it's a part of someone's personality.


I totally agree. Either she’s so self centered she doesn’t realize it (who would want to be with such a person), or she just didn’t care if it hurt the OP.

Either choice means to me—- she is rear view mirror material. People like this woman aren’t good choices.


----------



## TDSC60

Don't waste too much time wondering what is going on. There are so many thing it could be. She might be reconnecting with her XH or they could be dealing with how their boys are handling the death. Or even dealing with the probate of her estate.

But the statement that "I have plans" without elaboration is disturbing.

If you don't want to rock the boat with your girl directly, call the Ex's GF and ask her how he is doing.


----------



## ABHale

MissyP said:


> Sorry you are dealing with this, you are not overreacting. I would keep in mind the fact the there is no way she could not know that this behavior is inconsiderate and hurtful to you. So regardless of what she is actually doing, she knows you will be feeling confused and frustrated. Do you want to be with someone who is like that, because in my experience this kind of game playing is not a one time event, it's a part of someone's personality.



Or she is so self centered that she doesn’t realize or care how she treats anyone she is with. It’s all about her. Her actions at the funeral prove this. Arthur went to the funeral to support her, she knew this. Instead of leaning on his shoulders through it, she leans on her ex husband shoulders. Then gets mad at Arthur for feeling like the fool after she spends the entire day avoiding him. 

My wife’s dad passed away when we were in high school. We had been dating almost a year when she lost him. I was there for her as much as I could be. She kept me by her side the entire time with a death grip on my hand at times. There were others there and an ex bf that knew her dad their entire life. M’s parents and her ex’s parents were friends. Their moms met in the hospital when they were born and became best friends. M and her ex grew up together and started dating in middle school. A couple years later she broke up with him. We started dating at the start of her senior year. 

Her ex and his parents were at the funeral. M talked with all 3 and gave each a hug, along with everyone else that came through the line. B (her ex) would come by and talk about half the time, which was no problem. M kept me by her side even when she was at the front receiving family and friends. I was with her when it was just the family before the funeral. 

Even though B had know M’s dad for 18 years, I was the one she wanted at her side.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ABHale said:


> Or she is so self centered that she doesn’t realize or care how she treats anyone she is with. It’s all about her. Her actions at the funeral prove this. Arthur went to the funeral to support her, she knew this. Instead of leaning on his shoulders through it, she leans on her ex husband shoulders. Then gets mad at Arthur for feeling like the fool after she spends the entire day avoiding him.
> 
> My wife’s dad passed away when we were in high school. We had been dating almost a year when she lost him. I was there for her as much as I could be. She kept me by her side the entire time with a death grip on my hand at times. There were others there and an ex bf that knew her dad their entire life. M’s parents and her ex’s parents were friends. Their moms met in the hospital when they were born and became best friends. M and her ex grew up together and started dating in middle school. A couple years later she broke up with him. We started dating at the start of her senior year.
> 
> Her ex and his parents were at the funeral. M talked with all 3 and gave each a hug, along with everyone else that came through the line. B (her ex) would come by and talk about half the time, which was no problem. M kept me by her side even when she was at the front receiving family and friends. I was with her when it was just the family before the funeral.
> 
> Even though B had know M’s dad for 18 years, I was the one she wanted at her side.


I understand what you are saying here, but this is no where near the same scenario. 

The woman that died was the mom of her exH who she was married to for a very long time and she was the grandmother to her children. It makes a lot more sense that she would grieve with her exH than it would for your GF (now wife) to grieve with her ex-BF.


----------



## ABHale

BigDaddyNY said:


> I understand what you are saying here, but this is no where near the same scenario.
> 
> The woman that died was the mom of her exH who she was married to for a very long time and she was the grandmother to her children. It makes a lot more sense that she would grieve with her exH than it would for your GF (now wife) to grieve with her ex-BF.


And my wife’s ex was basically part of the family growing up. Same situation. 

Arthur’s girlfriend chose who’s side she wanted to be beside. It wasn’t Arthur.

Now she is ghosting Arthur which puts the ! on the finished relationship.


----------



## Marc878

BigDaddyNY said:


> I understand what you are saying here, but this is no where near the same scenario.
> 
> The woman that died was the mom of her exH who she was married to for a very long time and she was the grandmother to her children. It makes a lot more sense that she would grieve with her exH than it would for your GF (now wife) to grieve with her ex-BF.


So totally ignoring the OP the whole day and then getting po’d when he didn’t do what she told him to do after waiting for an hour is OK?

If you want to be a disrespected doormat. Take this crap without saying anything. Once a woman loses respect for you it’s over anyway.

Im sure this would have a great fairy tale ending if it were a Disney movie but it’s not.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Marc878 said:


> So totally ignoring the OP the whole day and then getting po’d when he didn’t do what she told him to do after waiting for an hour is OK?
> 
> If you want to be a disrespected doormat. Take this crap without saying anything. Once a woman loses respect for you it’s over anyway.
> 
> Im sure this would have a great fairy tale ending if it were a Disney movie but it’s not.


No, she treated him poorly, no question. The point I was making is there is an existing common connection between the girlfriend, her exH, and the departed. The woman that died was like a mother to her and she was the grandmother of her children. It doesn't surprise me that she was grieving with her exH, especially since it sounds like they divorced under okay circumstances. I'm not saying it was right to ignore her BF, but given the situation I can understand why he wasn't on the top of her mind. 

Also, the comment you are responding to wasn't meant to excuse her behavior. I was pointing out the difference in the situation being described by ABHale. In his scenario there would have been zero reason for his future wife to seek consolation from her exBF. They had been in a far shorter term relationship (don't know if it was even sexual since it was in HS), marriage wasn't involved and kids weren't involved.


----------



## ABHale

BigDaddyNY said:


> No, she treated him poorly, no question. The point I was making is there is an existing common connection between the girlfriend, her exH, and the departed. The woman that died was like a mother to her and she was the grandmother of her children. It doesn't surprise me that she was grieving with her exH, especially since it sounds like they divorced under okay circumstances. I'm not saying it was right to ignore her BF, but given the situation I can understand why he wasn't on the top of her mind.
> 
> Also, the comment you are responding to wasn't meant to excuse her behavior. I was pointing out the difference in the situation being described by ABHale. In his scenario there would have been zero reason for his future wife to seek consolation from her exBF. They had been in a far shorter term relationship (don't know if it was even sexual since it was in HS), marriage wasn't involved and kids weren't involved.



Arthur shouldn’t have been at the top of her mind but should have been the one she wanted consoling her. Good terms or not with the ex is irrelevant, she was supposedly in love with Arthur. 

Her actions during and after the funeral says otherwise.


----------



## Evinrude58

She’s having fun with her ex this weekend.
“Plans” she’s made....... obvious plans.

Don’t lovers normally discuss “plans” with one another?

What this relationship needs is for one stroke of Excalibur to cut the final cords...... let her go Arthur. Guinevere is with her Lancelot this weekend.


----------



## Marc878

BigDaddyNY said:


> No, she treated him poorly, no question. The point I was making is there is an existing common connection between the girlfriend, her exH, and the departed. The woman that died was like a mother to her and she was the grandmother of her children. It doesn't surprise me that she was grieving with her exH, especially since it sounds like they divorced under okay circumstances. I'm not saying it was right to ignore her BF, but given the situation I can understand why he wasn't on the top of her mind.
> 
> Also, the comment you are responding to wasn't meant to excuse her behavior. I was pointing out the difference in the situation being described by ABHale. In his scenario there would have been zero reason for his future wife to seek consolation from her exBF. They had been in a far shorter term relationship (don't know if it was even sexual since it was in HS), marriage wasn't involved and kids weren't involved.


Sorry but there are zero excuses for the behavior the OP posted. None. You can try and explain it away all you want. Character and personality in these situations can surface. That is a part of who she is. I doubt this was a one off thing. She’s divorced for a reason.

The bigger problem is OP. You see a lot getting walked on and just taking it. All that does when you allow yourself to be disrespected is set yourself up for more. Weakness/Not standing up for yourself is unattractive.

The time to deal with these situations is upfront. Most don’t want to rock the boat make anyone mad but that sets a future tone. You teach people how they can treat you. So you just get more of it.

Let her go and walk away. She’s already gone anyway. Her planned weekend with her x solidified that.


----------



## Robert22205

duplicate


----------



## Robert22205

She's not some inexperienced kid. Her behavior toward you has been self centered, disrespectful, and lacking in empathy as well as appreciation for you. 

Regardless of the possible motivation, I'm surprised (as a human being) she continues to play dumb and hasn't apologized. You deserve much better.

IMO her behavior was/is abusive (and she knows it...or as an adult with plenty of life experience she should know it). 

You can't change who she is or what she lacks.

If you continue seeing her be prepared for more abuse. Why? because that's who she is and that's what you'll get.


----------



## Benbutton

Diana7 said:


> 2





Diana7 said:


> No point in going if you never knew the person. It's going to remember the one who died, the one who the op had never even seen.


Ummm...he had met her a few times. No point in arguing when op has already said he knew her.


----------



## skerzoid

I think you are right in backing off, but not necessarily slamming the door.

However, she has a lot of 'splainin' to do.

i would go no contact & start exploring other options.


----------



## ArthurGPym

So she just called me out of the blue a couple hours ago. This is the first time in days she has actually called me. She was talking to me without a care in the world, as if she had just talked to me this morning. Well she wants to know if I still want her to come over this weekend, except that she can't stay past Saturday noon because she has to go home and get ready for a lawn party at her house on Sunday. I told her I could come and help her and she shut that down quickly. She gave me some weird lame-ass reason why I should not come to the party, so, I guess you all can see where this is going. 

I'm going to play along and when she comes over Friday night I'm going to sit down and have a heart to heart with her. I'm tired of being played like this. I'm probably going to just break up with her because I'm too old to be participating in a junior high school cafeteria romance.

Someone asked how or what I have invested over the past two years? Two very nice, exotic vacations that I paid for. I usually paid for all our meals, even though she makes as much with her salary as I do with my retirement. I have helped a great deal with finishing up the remodeling of her house: not so much monetarily but with my sweat and knowledge of construction. I helped her get competitive bids on the work and helped steer her through a big blowup with an unscrupulous contractor. She has a long way to go with the house but I helped her get a long ways down the road with it. I became a good friend to her boys and was even giving the older one free guitar lessons. I was her sounding board for every bad day she had at work, every argument she had with ex-husband concerning the boys, every little victory in her life she shared with me. I was her insider and now I'm suddenly on the outside. What is hard to accept is how fast I have fallen from grace. I did absolutely nothing wrong except maybe spoiled her with too much attention. I guess she prefers the chaos of her ex husband.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> So she just called me out of the blue a couple hours ago. This is the first time in days she has actually called me. She was talking to me without a care in the world, as if she had just talked to me this morning. Well she wants to know if I still want her to come over this weekend, except that she can't stay past Saturday noon because she has to go home and get ready for a lawn party at her house on Sunday. I told her I could come and help her and she shut that down quickly. She gave me some weird lame-ass reason why I should not come to the party, so, I guess you all can see where this is going.
> 
> I'm going to play along and when she comes over Friday night I'm going to sit down and have a heart to heart with her. I'm tired of being played like this. I'm probably going to just break up with her because I'm too old to be participating in a junior high school cafeteria romance.
> 
> Someone asked how or what I have invested over the past two years? Two very nice, exotic vacations that I paid for. I usually paid for all our meals, even though she makes as much with her salary as I do with my retirement. I have helped a great deal with finishing up the remodeling of her house: not so much monetarily but with my sweat and knowledge of construction. I helped her get competitive bids on the work and helped steer her through a big blowup with an unscrupulous contractor. She has a long way to go with the house but I helped her get a long ways down the road with it. I became a good friend to her boys and was even giving the younger one free guitar lessons. I was her sounding board for every bad day she had at work, every argument she had with ex-husband concerning the boys, every little victory in her life she shared with me. I was her insider and now I'm suddenly on the outside. What is hard to accept is how fast I have fallen from grace. I did absolutely nothing wrong except maybe spoiled her with too much attention. I guess she prefers the chaos of her ex husband.


I agree that a face to face talk is the way to go. Don't hold back on how you feel and how you felt with the way she treated you. Find out where she really thinks/thought this relationship was going. She seems oblivious to you perspective of this whole thing. Very odd.


----------



## Beach123

Her alliance is obviously to her ex husband. Her actions pushed you away while pulling him in close - so close that she expected YOU to be ok with completely disrespectful behavior at the service.

Then she tried blaming you for leaving? That’s just despicable on her part! 

She ignored you and expected you to be happy about it! I’d be pissed and I’d tell her so!

I’d also not make one minute of effort for her! I’d simply text her and say “I really don’t want to see you again, so Friday/Saturday is off”

She obviously made plans now without you for the 4th - after promising she would spend it with you.

Don’t be her chump. Be glad you know now - and just be done with her.


----------



## Evinrude58

You still are useful, but that’s about it.
I suspect all your fears will be laid to rest after your talk. But the elephant will still be there. I’d be tempted to show up Sunday and see who is at the party. Her reaction will tell you the truth you probably won’t get otherwise.

4th of July party and you’re not invited? Lol
Beach has it right. Bail


----------



## Lostinthought61

ArthurGPym said:


> So she just called me out of the blue a couple hours ago. This is the first time in days she has actually called me. She was talking to me without a care in the world, as if she had just talked to me this morning. Well she wants to know if I still want her to come over this weekend, except that she can't stay past Saturday noon because she has to go home and get ready for a lawn party at her house on Sunday. I told her I could come and help her and she shut that down quickly. She gave me some weird lame-ass reason why I should not come to the party, so, I guess you all can see where this is going.
> 
> I'm going to play along and when she comes over Friday night I'm going to sit down and have a heart to heart with her. I'm tired of being played like this. I'm probably going to just break up with her because I'm too old to be participating in a junior high school cafeteria romance.
> 
> Someone asked how or what I have invested over the past two years? Two very nice, exotic vacations that I paid for. I usually paid for all our meals, even though she makes as much with her salary as I do with my retirement. I have helped a great deal with finishing up the remodeling of her house: not so much monetarily but with my sweat and knowledge of construction. I helped her get competitive bids on the work and helped steer her through a big blowup with an unscrupulous contractor. She has a long way to go with the house but I helped her get a long ways down the road with it. I became a good friend to her boys and was even giving the younger one free guitar lessons. I was her sounding board for every bad day she had at work, every argument she had with ex-husband concerning the boys, every little victory in her life she shared with me. I was her insider and now I'm suddenly on the outside. What is hard to accept is how fast I have fallen from grace. I did absolutely nothing wrong except maybe spoiled her with too much attention. I guess she prefers the chaos of her ex husband.


sometimes you can't fix stupid.


----------



## Beach123

She seems to be capable of treating you terribly and then acting like you’re supposed to be a ok with it. It’s not ok!

And you even seeing her is just going to have her making more excuses for her bad behavior and acting like something is wrong with you!

Don’t bother! She seems narcissistic - and a gal who’s unable to understand how you must feel - and unable to actually apologize for treating you as an afterthought while PRIORITIZING her ex husband.

She has shown you who she is - believe what you saw and experienced! She will use you but she won’t prioritize you.

And that’s just not enough for any relationship! Unless you expect just a strictly FWB situation!

Heck, she didn’t even want you at her party! That should tell you EVERYTHING about how this stands now!

Just don’t even bother!


----------



## Beach123

She’s training you to be her doormat… blatantly doing it.

And you haven’t said NO! So she thinks you’ll take more and more crap from her. 🙄

For what it’s worth - I’m a woman. A woman who recognizes when other women are treating men like crap.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> So she just called me out of the blue a couple hours ago. This is the first time in days she has actually called me. She was talking to me without a care in the world, as if she had just talked to me this morning. Well she wants to know if I still want her to come over this weekend, except that she can't stay past Saturday noon because she has to go home and get ready for a lawn party at her house on Sunday. I told her I could come and help her and she shut that down quickly. She gave me some weird lame-ass reason why I should not come to the party, so, I guess you all can see where this is going.
> 
> I'm going to play along and when she comes over Friday night I'm going to sit down and have a heart to heart with her. I'm tired of being played like this. I'm probably going to just break up with her because I'm too old to be participating in a junior high school cafeteria romance.
> 
> Someone asked how or what I have invested over the past two years? Two very nice, exotic vacations that I paid for. I usually paid for all our meals, even though she makes as much with her salary as I do with my retirement. I have helped a great deal with finishing up the remodeling of her house: not so much monetarily but with my sweat and knowledge of construction. I helped her get competitive bids on the work and helped steer her through a big blowup with an unscrupulous contractor. She has a long way to go with the house but I helped her get a long ways down the road with it. I became a good friend to her boys and was even giving the younger one free guitar lessons. I was her sounding board for every bad day she had at work, every argument she had with ex-husband concerning the boys, every little victory in her life she shared with me. I was her insider and now I'm suddenly on the outside. What is hard to accept is how fast I have fallen from grace. I did absolutely nothing wrong except maybe spoiled her with too much attention. I guess she prefers the chaos of her ex husband.


Better late than never I guess. She only wants you around when it benefits her. She’s keeping you out of the way so she can cozy up to her x this weekend. She thinks you are her doormat and is wiping her feet on you.

In the future shut **** like this down upfront. She thinks she’s worth more than you. You are better off alone that having to wade though this kind of BS.

The other thing is. This is who she is. Make no mistake about that. This deceit was/is planned.

Id bet this is why she’s divorced. I wouldn’t worry about hurting her feelings. How’d you like what she’s been giving you?


----------



## Marc878

You can only be a *chump* if you allow it.


----------



## Beach123

Just text her and say you are done with her.


----------



## Rob_1

Beach123 said:


> I’m a woman. A woman who recognizes when other women are treating men like crap.


Allow me to finish the quoted for you:

I’m a woman. A woman who recognizes when other women are treating men like crap because they know when they can get away with treating a guy like crap.


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## ArthurGPym

I just called her back and cancelled. I told her to have fun at her party. I didn't give her time to reply and just hung up on her. I'm blocking her number too. Talking is a waste of time so I'm going dark. F*ck her.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Art get away for the holiday...away from your house and her and just do something enjoyable


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## Andy1001

@ArthurGPym do you mind if I ask you some questions.
Why is a single man with his own home and a good income putting up with this ****?
Has this woman a golden vagina?
You need to stop and realize just how much this relationship has and is costing you both financially and emotionally. She comes across as a gold digger and you I’m sorry to say come across as a doormat. And you still seem incapable of standing up to her.
Why didn’t you put her straight about her behavior when she rang today?
Edit: I just seen your post about dumping her. 
Well done.👏👏👏👏


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> I just called her back and cancelled. I told her to have fun at her party. I didn't give her time to reply and just hung up on her. I'm blocking her number too. Talking is a waste of time so I'm going dark. F*ck her.


You only need enough to satisfy you.

You are correct. This is who she is. Talk won’t get you a thing except a longer self imposed stay in limbo.

Many stay in a hopium daze way to long.

Congrats you’ve nothing to work with here. Stay dark and let her figure it out.
👏👏👏👏👏


----------



## Beach123

Good that you cancelled. Hope you made it clear that you are done with her!

Honestly, when you got treated that poorly at the service - I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just tell her how her behavior was despicable TO YOU!

Have a voice! Speak your truth! Say what’s real! 

She was a selfish *itch to you and seriously made you look like the fool of the year and you didn’t call her out…? It baffles me. 

Either way - she is too much tied to her “ex”… it’s never been over between them.


----------



## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> I just called her back and cancelled. I told her to have fun at her party. I didn't give her time to reply and just hung up on her. I'm blocking her number too. Talking is a waste of time so I'm going dark. F*ck her.


I read the update that you posted prior to this one and was scrolling down to post a reply when I saw this.

Sorry, man. I know it sucks but you did the right thing.


----------



## Evinrude58

You did the hard thing— the right thing.
I also would have pulled her to the side and told her off when she treated me like that at the funeral and left. No excuse. I feel she shamed and disrespected you horribly.
Had you talked to her tonight, she’d have spun things around, acted shocked that you thought the obvious, and made you feel like a crazy person.
Your feelings at the funeral about what she was doing—- they were the logical reaction that anyone would have felt. Your feelings about not being invited to the party after two years dating??????? Normal also.

If you unblock her, know that she will have her “story “ all worked out to make you the jealous bad guy. She’ll probably claim the 4th of July party is all ladies and she thought you’d be bored.

when people needlessly treat you as a second rate person, best to do just what you did, even if it hurts. Great job handling things.

you’ll feel better when you can get past the emotions of the breakup and be glad you didn’t Keep letting her do this kind of stuff and shrug it off as nothing.


----------



## jlg07

Sorry man I know this has to hurt, but her dragging your emotions around with what she was doing also had to hurt a ton.
You will get better, and just learn from this experience so you are ready for someone who WILL treat you well.


----------



## Landofblue

You’re taking the right approach. If it were me, I’d be direct with her. Say something via text: “it’s clear to me that you are trying to get back with your husband or someone else. You have stopped making me a priority and I cannot be in a relationship, with someone I care deeply about, and not get the same in return. I wish you well in finding what you are looking for. Unfortunately I know it’s not me. So I think it’s best that you no longer contact me. Thank you. “

then don’t respond. If she wants to fight for you she will. I doubt she has it in her.
I wish you well.


----------



## Mr.Married

And sadly enough it probably doesn’t bother her that much .....


----------



## ArthurGPym

Landofblue said:


> You’re taking the right approach. If it were me, I’d be direct with her. Say something via text: “it’s clear to me that you are trying to get back with your husband or someone else. You have stopped making me a priority and I cannot be in a relationship, with someone I care deeply about, and not get the same in return. I wish you well in finding what you are looking for. Unfortunately I know it’s not me. So I think it’s best that you no longer contact me. Thank you. “
> 
> then don’t respond. If she wants to fight for you she will. I doubt she has it in her.
> I wish you well.


This is good. Mind if I use it?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> This is good. Mind if I use it?


You should go for it. Be real interesting to see the response.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Thank you all for your support. Feeling like a chump today and mourning what I thought would be the last relationship I would have in my life.

Anyways, my phone has been blowing up with calls from her friends and even one of her boys texted me. I sent him a text telling him that I would always be he and his brother's friend, that his mom and I won't be seeing each other anymore, and that he and his brother can contact me by text me if they need anything. 

I thought long and hard about this whole situation, and I have come to the conclusion that even if her behavior was related to mourning, I should still be the first one she should be coming to for comfort, and the exact opposite has happened. I have been to many of her family functions and to be excluded from this party is a slap in the face. Even if she wasn't cheating with her husband or some other rando, the poor treatment and lack of respect from her bodes a bad future for us. Cheating or no cheating, she is not good partner material for me. I just don't understand why now? It has to do with her ex. I guess I will hear from someone eventually, but right now I just want to lay low and disappear.

I am going to take the advice given here and pack up my little RV and head to the beach for the weekend, maybe even head down to Mexico and gorge on beach tacos and beer.


----------



## ArthurGPym

BigDaddyNY said:


> You should go for it. Be real interesting to see the response.


Thanks. Doing so now.


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## Evinrude58

She’ll explain it all away and make you feel like a jerk. Just remember: it happened.
You saw it. And you weren’t invited to the party—- why? I’m sure she’ll have a “reasonable explanation”. Was the ex invited?
Of course not— uh huh.
or she will admit he was but only because she felt he needed to get out and have some support. RightO


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## ArthurGPym

Have a safe and fun holiday everyone!


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## jlg07

AGP, you also -- just try to process when you need to and relax/enjoy as much as you can.


----------



## MissyP

Evinrude58 said:


> I totally agree. Either she’s so self centered she doesn’t realize it (who would want to be with such a person), or she just didn’t care if it hurt the OP.
> 
> Either choice means to me—- she is rear view mirror material. People like this woman aren’t good choices.


Or I suppose another possibility is that something in her past has caused her to believe this is appropriate behavior in a relationship, or an acceptable means of achieving something she wants from him.
Again, still a woman to be avoided, unless perhaps he is willing to try to work through that, and she is too.....


----------



## Andy1001

How far fetched does this seem.
Here we have a woman that likes her man to pay for all dates, book and pay for vacations and help her financially and expertise wise with her home renovation projects. 
Her mil dies, her fil is in very poor health physically and mentally and it looks like her ex husband will inherit everything.
Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that she wants to share the proceeds..........?


----------



## mickybill

Well, I thought you were over reacting to the funeral and death a of her mother in law, grandmother to her children, blah blah.
But the I can see you, but I have to run home for the lawn party was a big slap in the face. If she thought of you as a couple you would be at the party.
But blocking her and breaking up through her son was not cool. Sort of high schooly...You should of just stepped back and see if she acted like a girlfriend and not a soon to be ex-girlfriend. But that card has been played. Enjoy the beach.

FWIW she owes you an explanation...


----------



## Marc878

Upfront it’s shocking getting/seeing this type of behavior. It leaves you dumbfounded. You reacted well after the shock subsided.

I wouldn’t waste anymore time on this. She’s just not worth it.


----------



## ABHale

Have a great trip.


----------



## ABHale

mickybill said:


> Well, I thought you were over reacting to the funeral and death a of her mother in law, grandmother to her children, blah blah.
> But the I can see you, but I have to run home for the lawn party was a big slap in the face. If she thought of you as a couple you would be at the party.
> But blocking her and breaking up through her son was not cool. Sort of high schooly...You should of just stepped back and see if she acted like a girlfriend and not a soon to be ex-girlfriend. But that card has been played. Enjoy the beach.
> 
> FWIW she owes you an explanation...


I believe he broke up when he canceled seeing her this weekend.

He only responded to a text from one of her sons. All he did was simply explain the situation.


----------



## Mr.Married

ArthurGPym said:


> Feeling like a chump today


There have been loads and loads and loads of chumps on this forum.

Your not one of them. 

Enjoy your trip !!!!!


----------



## Openminded

She didn’t intend for it to end so I’d bet she’ll be back. Be ready.


----------



## skerzoid

If you seriously wish to end your suffering, ghost not only her, but anyone she sends after you. If she lives close by, I would expect her to show up at your door. Then, you will have to either have the face-to-face break up, or choose to continue this painful relationship. 

I had a similar relationship, it was a painful lesson. Three weeks after breaking it off for good, I met the love of my life = Golden Anniversary this year!


----------



## SRCSRC

Her behavior seems to be a shocking reversal of how she feels about you. In hindsight, were there any clues recently that might have been a tip-off as to her present nonchalant attitude regarding your relationship? Others have contacted you, but she has not done so. Looks like she wanted to end things with you but was too much of a coward to do it directly. The ex-husband is the most likely reason things changed. You never got a clear reason for their breakup in my mind. I suspect someone cheated. It could have been the husband. Now she wants back for various reasons. But this is pure speculation. You may be collateral damage to their divorce/possible reconciliation. Very sorry this happened to you. Protect yourself and move on. She may make a second pass at you if things don't work out with the ex-husband. She is not to be trusted.


----------



## marshy

He's blocked her


----------



## SRCSRC

As a couple, I think it is paramount that past relationships be discussed in some detail, especially prior marriages. A partner needs to know what happened in that marriage in order to get an idea as to what he or she might be dealing with in the future. I think that you were at that stage in the relationship that you should have received a lot more information about why the prior marriage ended. While it might be a one-sided story, a partner still needs details. No doubt, things were hidden from you.


----------



## SRCSRC

While she may be blocked, she can still get information to Arthur via friends and the boys. Arthur didn't mention the content of the texts he is receiving. But it doesn't sound like she is pleading to patch things up through these texts sent by others. I think he would have mentioned that in his post, but I could be wrong.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

SRCSRC said:


> Her behavior seems to be a shocking reversal of how she feels about you. In hindsight, were there any clues recently that might have been a tip-off as to her present nonchalant attitude regarding your relationship? Others have contacted you, but she has not done so. Looks like she wanted to end things with you but was too much of a coward to do it directly. The ex-husband is the most likely reason things changed. You never got a clear reason for their breakup in my mind. I suspect someone cheated. It could have been the husband. Now she wants back for various reasons. But this is pure speculation. You may be collateral damage to their divorce/possible reconciliation. Very sorry this happened to you. Protect yourself and move on. She may make a second pass at you if things don't work out with the ex-husband. She is not to be trusted.


I think other people started contacting him because he blocked her number.


----------



## SRCSRC

Arthur, you stated that the ex-husband was dating a hot girlfriend. Where was she while all this drama played out? Was she at the funeral? Did she console the ex-husband in any way from what you saw? Maybe it is time to contact her if you still have doubts about your decision.


----------



## mickybill

ABHale said:


> I believe he broke up when he canceled seeing her this weekend.
> 
> He only responded to a text from one of her sons. All he did was simply explain the situation.


"I just called her back and cancelled. I told her to have fun at her party. I didn't give her time to reply and just hung up on her. I'm blocking her number too."

Did he? Hang up and block is how people break up a 2 year(?) relationship in 2021?
I don't recall the time frame of the MIL funeral to the lawn party, was it a week or two, three? It is weird that he is not welcome at the 4th lawn party...big red flag.
It seems that the GF is acting weird (because of the death of MIL, the ex husband being charming?) but AGP is doing things I have done, acting without knowing the whole story, half the time I was right and half the time I had totally misread the situation. When the MIL died if the GF felt bad she should have gone to AGP but chose not to.
As someone who has been ghosted by a xGF who was too immature to actually say she wanted to break up, she ghosted me.

IMHO this is not over, I don't think she was blowing her (for a reason) ex husband in the coatroom at the funeral, but there's been a lot of miscommunication.

Do the 180 and I bet she tries to explain, maybe it will make sense. Maybe not.


----------



## ArthurGPym

SRCSRC said:


> While she may be blocked, she can still get information to Arthur via friends and the boys. Arthur didn't mention the content of the texts he is receiving. But it doesn't sound like she is pleading to patch things up through these texts sent by others. I think he would have mentioned that in his post, but I could be wrong.


most of them are from two of her girlfriends and one of the gal’s husbands. I responded to him because he's my friend and I gave him a very short answer as to why I was breaking things off with her. He came back that he was also annoyed by her behavior at the funeral and understands, he didn’t know about the other stuff, and wished me well. He invited me to play golf next week. A cool dude.

anyways, Im at a place getting lunch on my way down to Ensenada.


----------



## Robert22205

Arthur... I agree with your reasoning. Especially going dark. Time and distance are your friend. Just move on with your life. 

Just beware, that blood is thicker than water and her boys are likely to tell you how much she misses you and pull you back in. Don't get guilted into doing their parent's job.

Btw: You can love her and still break it off because you find her behavior toxic and abusive. It's not up to her or anyone else to judge. It's 100% your decision and it's your right to live the best version of your life.


----------



## Evinrude58

let her think on it Arthur. She never mentioned a reason you weren’t invited to the party? Odd.
Enjoy ensenada


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> let her think on it Arthur. She never mentioned a reason you weren’t invited to the party? Odd.
> Enjoy ensenada


She said the party would be her brother's family and her boys. I don't like her brother and she knows it. He's an ass, but I would have been civil and behaved myself and probably just stayed outside and did the cooking. No, it was an excuse to not invite me is all.


----------



## ArthurGPym

So when I got back to town last night I turned my cell back on and there were probably twenty texts from friends and one from her oldest boy. He told me that she had invited his dad for the party on Sunday and that she and her dad were very touchy feely, so he thinks they are back together. He asked her why she didn't invite me and he says she looked embarrassed and told him that she and I had broken up. He's not happy about it and I told him he could call me later today if he wanted to talk.


----------



## jlg07

So, you were right. The death of MIL brought up all the feels again with her ex. Honestly, great that you did what you did and backed away for your own sake. YES it sucks, but you will move on and have a better life that you would of with her.... Obviously this wasn't too far away from happening with her ex -- it just needed a trigger.
I'd be honest with her son, tell her what she did, how she did it, and that is why YOU broke up with her. Because she was dishonest and didn't have an adult conversation with you about any of this.


----------



## Lostinthought61

So instead of being up front with you and being honest she was a weasel and did weasel moves...what she does not realize is that events like this when the ex's get together it is often temporary and the issues that made them break up are still there unresolved and it will not last but she **** move on you will. great role model for her boys.


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> So when I got back to town last night I turned my cell back on and there were probably twenty texts from friends and one from her oldest boy. He told me that she had invited his dad for the party on Sunday and that she and her dad were very touchy feely, so he thinks they are back together. He asked her why she didn't invite me and he says she looked embarrassed and told him that she and I had broken up. He's not happy about it and I told him he could call me later today if he wanted to talk.


Very sorry this happened, especially that she kept this going for so long, while not truly being all in with you. At least you know for sure, and can move on with no “what if’s” or whatever. She isn’t worth your time. Sounds like her folks liked you and were invested more than she was. Wishing you well with your next relationship. Hoping you get pats the hurting on this fast, and try not to let it affect you on how much trust you are capable of in the future. Mine...... it’s shot. I’d have to meet someone truly exceptional to ever have a smidgeon of faith in what goes on inside their head regarding me. Hope that’s not your result.
Good luck


----------



## DownByTheRiver

There's no doubt she is still there for her ex, but like you said, it didn't seem an issue until his mother died. Yes, it's true they may have clung to each other. It's also true that since the kids were there, she didn't want to be seen as being with you, although not sure why she invited you at all if that was the case. Or did you invite you? 

My guess is once this has passed, whatever caused her and her ex to be exes will simply resurface. It will be because one or both is dating someone or "hasn't changed" or whatever. 

You've both sent mixed signals about exclusivity, though. She's said she doesn't want to marry. Is that because of the kids, do you think? Maybe she's carrying on a charade for them. And yet she wants to see only you, which is exclusivity. That's kind of a mixed message. If she only wants to be with you, why no marriage? 

You, on the other hand, are an older bachelor and that can be a red flag. I personally don't see it as one, but it would be to a lot of people. Can he commit? Why hasn't he? 

Do you know enough about whose idea it was to break up? Going from the meager signs you've provided, such as her remaining in contact with the family, I'm going to hazard a guess, and that's all it is, that he was the one wanting to break up, not her. If you're good and done with someone, you likely don't want any more ties than necessary -- but then that's not really possible because they share kids. Still, if you wished to remain as uninvolved as possible, you wouldn't be soulmates with their mother, sharing things knowing it will get back to him. So I'm just saying who knows, but it's maybe 51/49 she's not the one who wanted to break up. But this is something you should try to find out. People will often lie about it though, saving face. I would think since you are thick with her friends, one of them might give you a clue who dumped who. 

Some people remain amicable. I guess that's good. Civil. To me, it means there once was love at least going one way or the other between them. Would be good to know if it was both ways or if his didn't run that deep and he decided to get out. Of course, that doesn't mean he won't try to sleep with her just to see if he can. 

Be patient a while longer. But I think if you two are going to last, it's going to have to be under a marriage commitment, which I hope you aren't too set in your ways to handle, but you sound social and flexible, if the jealousy doesn't make you clamp down too hard. Under a marriage commitment, she will have to have you on her arm at these things and be open about it. I wouldn't press her for that now. I would be a little patient. You have nothing to lose. I would see if she re-engages fully with you or not and if she stops catering to her ex and his family except for kid stuff. 

You know, think about child care. I don't know how old they are or if they need it, but she might just have lost her child care and be trying to emphasize those kids are still part of their family trying to get someone to step up and help. She also may think there's a chance she's in the MIL's will. Unlikely. So she may be sucking up for that reason. You just never know. Good luck. Wait it out. I would say you are not exclusive at this point, so if you would meet someone very tempting, quietly and discreetly go out with her.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Lostinthought61 said:


> So instead of being up front with you and being honest she was a weasel and did weasel moves...what she does not realize is that events like this when the ex's get together it is often temporary and the issues that made them break up are still there unresolved and it will not last but she **** move on you will. great role model for her boys.


I love anyone who uses the word "weasel" as either an adjective or a verb. Thank you.


----------



## Openminded

Yeah, it was fairly obvious that her ex was likely going to be there and that’s why you were left out. I think the renewed relationship is recent enough that she didn’t want to cut you completely loose in case it didn’t work out with him. Better to know that now so you can move on.


----------



## ArthurGPym

DownByTheRiver said:


> You, on the other hand, are an older bachelor and that can be a red flag. I personally don't see it as one, but it would be to a lot of people. Can he commit? Why hasn't he?


It is funny because if I was a woman I would be getting a standing ovation on Ellen. The double standard is laughable.

No, I'm just a middle aged man who worked hard for twenty-five years at his profession, invested his money wisely and was able to retire early with plenty of money in the bank to never have to worry about money again for the rest of his life. I'm a man who's first wife cheated on him after only three years of marriage, and then because of the abominable laws of the State of California, was forced to pay her over $150,000 and give her a relatively brand new $45,000 BMW to get her out of his life. I'm a man who lives in a modest but elegant 3,300 square foot house in a clean and quiet small city in Southern California. I own this house outright, I have no debts, and I only have to use credit cards for making reservations. I pay for everything with cash. I finance nothing. Sarah's ex is a good 30 pounds heavier than me, is up to his eyeballs in debt, and last year had to file for an extension on his taxes. He is nowhere near as knowledgeable or as talented as I am and I am far and away much better looking. So, it is not because of his qualities that Sarah wants to get back with him. I think Sarah misses the disfunction. Looking back, she would often pick fights with me for no reason, or make up reasons to get mad at me. I should have seen those behaviors as serious red flags. Some people cannot let go of drama and disfunction, and the more I really stand back and look at Sarah objectively, there were some glaring red signs that I should have seen early on, but chose to ignore.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

There is one possible rainbow. Now the MIL is gone, what reason does she have for still mixing with his family -- unless someone in it is babysitting. So it's just possible she may find herself on the outside like God intended.


----------



## jlg07

She will be doubly on the outside -- because I'm pretty sure, from the sound of it, AGP will not be getting back with her or letting her into his life again.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I don't know all that much about his family. The MIL was the only one I was acquainted with. I guess I don't understand the DBTR's question. Maybe Sarah got back together with her ex because ultimately she felt more comfortable with the old life? Maybe my perception of our relationship was more positive than hers? I don't know why she would end it so suddenly and go back to a man who she didn't seem to care about at all while we were dating. I am still racking my brain over the possibilities. It doesn't make sense. Some of the common friends I have talked to cannot make sense of it either. One gal even told me she thought Sarah has gone a bit bonkers. One positive I can come away with is that most of the people I have talked to have been sympathetic and supportive. Some could care less, but the ones I got close to are scratching their heads.


----------



## SRCSRC

You previously mentioned that the ex-husband had a hot girlfriend. Do you know what happened to her? Are you curious? Is she your type? Is she worth dating? I apologize if my question is stepping over the line.


----------



## ABHale

DownByTheRiver said:


> There's no doubt she is still there for her ex, but like you said, it didn't seem an issue until his mother died. Yes, it's true they may have clung to each other. It's also true that since the kids were there, she didn't want to be seen as being with you, although not sure why she invited you at all if that was the case. Or did you invite you?
> 
> My guess is once this has passed, whatever caused her and her ex to be exes will simply resurface. It will be because one or both is dating someone or "hasn't changed" or whatever.
> 
> You've both sent mixed signals about exclusivity, though. She's said she doesn't want to marry. Is that because of the kids, do you think? Maybe she's carrying on a charade for them. And yet she wants to see only you, which is exclusivity. That's kind of a mixed message. If she only wants to be with you, why no marriage?
> 
> You, on the other hand, are an older bachelor and that can be a red flag. I personally don't see it as one, but it would be to a lot of people. Can he commit? Why hasn't he?
> 
> Do you know enough about whose idea it was to break up? Going from the meager signs you've provided, such as her remaining in contact with the family, I'm going to hazard a guess, and that's all it is, that he was the one wanting to break up, not her. If you're good and done with someone, you likely don't want any more ties than necessary -- but then that's not really possible because they share kids. Still, if you wished to remain as uninvolved as possible, you wouldn't be soulmates with their mother, sharing things knowing it will get back to him. So I'm just saying who knows, but it's maybe 51/49 she's not the one who wanted to break up. But this is something you should try to find out. People will often lie about it though, saving face. I would think since you are thick with her friends, one of them might give you a clue who dumped who.
> 
> Some people remain amicable. I guess that's good. Civil. To me, it means there once was love at least going one way or the other between them. Would be good to know if it was both ways or if his didn't run that deep and he decided to get out. Of course, that doesn't mean he won't try to sleep with her just to see if he can.
> 
> Be patient a while longer. But I think if you two are going to last, it's going to have to be under a marriage commitment, which I hope you aren't too set in your ways to handle, but you sound social and flexible, if the jealousy doesn't make you clamp down too hard. Under a marriage commitment, she will have to have you on her arm at these things and be open about it. I wouldn't press her for that now. I would be a little patient. You have nothing to lose. I would see if she re-engages fully with you or not and if she stops catering to her ex and his family except for kid stuff.
> 
> You know, think about child care. I don't know how old they are or if they need it, but she might just have lost her child care and be trying to emphasize those kids are still part of their family trying to get someone to step up and help. She also may think there's a chance she's in the MIL's will. Unlikely. So she may be sucking up for that reason. You just never know. Good luck. Wait it out. I would say you are not exclusive at this point, so if you would meet someone very tempting, quietly and discreetly go out with her.


WTF are you going on about?????

Seriously messed up post.


----------



## lifeistooshort

There's no double standard here in my book.

You handled this like a boss...well done.

She was keeping options open....women do it all the time. My bf is in his 50's and never been married and I'm quite happy with him...quality women will evaluate you on your own merits.

If you were the man in her life she'd have you there for everything.

There are lots of women who will appreciate you.


----------



## nekonamida

It's not much but I'm giving you a standing ovation. You handled that perfectly.

She likely did it because she got some issues to resolve. Highly unlikely that she will be finding them in ex's pants but that doesn't seem to stop her from trying hence why her friends think she's lost it.

May she enjoy her jerky, argumentative ex while you move on to greener pastures.


----------



## Diceplayer

IMO you dodged a bullet. Imagine this happening after you married her.


----------



## SunCMars

Really good outcomes are very often the result of painful prior dealings.
Dealings that ended.....in good and proper order.

The initial hardship and then the release from pain, ah, that is the good.

Most readers here, see your present situation as a good outcome, someday, you will too.

I feel sorry for her children, those boys. 

Love is never rational. That explains Sarah's behavior.

Her chemistry mixed well with her ex husband, and not 'as well' with you.

Some people cannot lose, refuse to lose. 
They will fight that losing their whole lives.

Her losing her first marriage was not to be had.
It was something she could not endure.

A decent person would signal this to their present 'partner'.

Yes, she selfishly played you for a chump.

*I suspect that they had been in contact, intimate contact, for a long time.*
Beyond that which is normal co-parenting.

The ex, him being thirty pounds overweight and badly in debt had little to do with what her feelings for him were.
He must have had a fitting, no, a good personality, for him to keep his hold on Sarah, and that hot younger woman he was dating.


----------



## SunCMars

There is this thing called charisma, or likeable chutzpah, or that magnetic personality that gives you the edge over other potential suitors.

Yes, having means and money may help overcome that lack in a person.

But..... not all women (or men) are mercenary, or are given to practicalities when selecting a mate.

_Love over all_ is that romantic dream, one that everyday life slams badly into those interpersonal high tidal rocks.

Sarah went for the man, her dreams, not his means.



_Lilith-_


----------



## Blondilocks

ArthurGPym said:


> her oldest boy. He told me that she had invited his dad for the party on Sunday and that she and her dad were very touchy feely, so he thinks they are back together. He asked her why she didn't invite me and he says she looked embarrassed and told him that she and I had broken up. He's not happy about it and I told him he could call me later today if he wanted to talk.


This tells you all you need to know about Sarah. She and his father made the kids' lives a living hell with their fighting and drama. The kid enjoyed the peace and stability you brought to their lives. Sorry to say, you'll have to disengage from the child. A future love interest won't understand and you staying engaged with the child will be detrimental to him if his parents do get back together. Unfortunately, one can't pick their parents.


----------



## SunCMars

Blondilocks said:


> This tells you all you need to know about Sarah. She and his father made the kids' lives a living hell with their fighting and drama. The kid enjoyed the peace and stability you brought to their lives. Sorry to say, you'll have to disengage from the child. A future love interest won't understand and you staying engaged with the child will be detrimental to him if his parents do get back together. Unfortunately, one can't pick their parents.


I say, in the short-term, this is the correct response.

Long term is a long way, a long winding route, maybe to a true friendship.
Forever sounds nice.

Friendships that are lasting, are golden.
Those that are long-lasting were/are kept nurtured.

Keep those boys in the loop.

Short term, make the loop merely verbal; long term, invite the young bloods in/over.
Ask them to maintain discretion.

A man cannot have too many good friends.

These are male friends, the mommy/female interest has self-banished herself, and is now in the rear-view mirror.

Though life is complicated, he can juggle a few good boys, soon to be good men.

Be a mentor, such a rare commodity.



_Are Dee-_


----------



## SunCMars

When you determine that you are a place-holder for someone else, you must move your warm place from their space, so out of reach.


_The Typist-_


----------



## ArthurGPym

SRCSRC said:


> You previously mentioned that the ex-husband had a hot girlfriend. Do you know what happened to her? Are you curious? Is she your type? Is she worth dating? I apologize if my question is stepping over the line.


She was not at the reception. What I have gleaned through talks with some of the mutual friends is that their relationship was not as steady as I thought it was. Seems they were on again - off again. She was probably out of the picture around the time the MIL died. 

I have no evidence that Sarah and ex-husband were commiserating in any way before his mom died. As for what happened to the girlfriend I have no clue. I assume she moved on.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Blondilocks said:


> This tells you all you need to know about Sarah. She and his father made the kids' lives a living hell with their fighting and drama. The kid enjoyed the peace and stability you brought to their lives. Sorry to say, you'll have to disengage from the child. A future love interest won't understand and you staying engaged with the child will be detrimental to him if his parents do get back together. Unfortunately, one can't pick their parents.


The older boy did call me late yesterday. I spent a good portion just comforting him. He knows the score and is pissed at his mom for the way she has handled this whole thing. He wasn't crying but he was on the verge of it. He flat out doesn't want his parents back together, and I didn't want to tell him what to do, because I don't want Sarah coming back and accusing me of setting her sons against her. I told the boy that I would always be his friend, that he needed to love his mom and understand that sometimes emotions cause people to make hasty decisions but that he should just keep being himself. I told him that he and his brother could call me anytime if they wanted to vent. I also told him I was sending him a new electric guitar and amp for his birthday, because several weeks before I promised I would get him one if he mastered his bar chord progressions. He has, and so there is a nice Ibanez guitar and practice amp heading his way.


----------



## ArthurGPym

SunCMars said:


> When you determine that you are a place-holder for someone else, you must move your warm place from their space, so out of reach.
> 
> 
> _The Typist-_


Yep. That is exactly what I was. Plan B.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Thanks to all for your support and wise counsel. TAM has truly been a blessing. I wish I could say I was being strong and handling it like a champ, but truth be told I feel like the high school junior who got dumped by his girlfriend for the senior jock. It does hurt badly. I invested way too much of my heart into this woman. I know I only have myself to blame, but as I look towards the second half of my life I'm not too crazy about spending it alone. I was hoping she was the one.


----------



## SunCMars

ArthurGPym said:


> I was hoping she was *the one*.


She will be one of a few, hopefully not one of many.

She did bring joy into your heart for as long as the relationship lasted.
Consider that a gift from the Fates.

You tasted the best part of her.

..................................................................

She stole your short-term confidence, not so, your long-term heart.

The world is filled with lonely, and loving women.

Part of the fun is finding them and getting to know them, intimately.

Just know, many feel the same way as you.
They do.

Most have the same fears and trepidations as you do.

Women have those warm places that men do not, and no vice, with that versa.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## ArthurGPym

SunCMars said:


> She will be one of a few, hopefully not one of many.
> 
> She did bring joy into your heart for as long as the relationship lasted.
> Consider that a gift from the Fates.
> 
> You tasted the best part of her.
> 
> ..................................................................
> 
> She stole your short-term confidence, not so, your long-term heart.
> 
> The world is filled with lonely, and loving women.
> 
> Part of the fun is finding them and getting to know them, intimately.
> 
> Just know, many feel the same way as you.
> They do.
> 
> Most have the same fears and trepidations as you do.
> 
> Women have those warm places that men do not, and no vice, with that versa.
> 
> 
> _Are Dee-_


Uh ok.


----------



## Asterix

ArthurGPym said:


> Thanks to all for your support and wise counsel. TAM has truly been a blessing. I wish I could say I was being strong and handling it like a champ, but truth be told I feel like the high school junior who got dumped by his girlfriend for the senior jock. It does hurt badly. I invested way too much of my heart into this woman. I know I only have myself to blame, but as I look towards the second half of my life I'm not too crazy about spending it alone. I was hoping she was the one.


It is understandable to feel this way after all that you've gone through. Although, in this case, the senior jock is about 30lb overweight with poor money management skills. So, it looks like the girlfriend went for some creepy dude and dumped her senior jock. 

This may be presumptuous, but in case if she comes back and asks you to give her another chance, please DON'T. Her manipulation of the situation and your bad treatment one time around is more than enough.


----------



## Beach123

It sounds as if you likely live somewhere close to where I am.

Glad you seem to have handled this well. There’s no need to respond to her any further.

Hope the get away in Mexico was great. Spent many years (weekends) in Las Gaviotas over the years. Had some fun times there when my kids were young.


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> Thanks to all for your support and wise counsel. TAM has truly been a blessing. I wish I could say I was being strong and handling it like a champ, but truth be told I feel like the high school junior who got dumped by his girlfriend for the senior jock. It does hurt badly. I invested way too much of my heart into this woman. I know I only have myself to blame, but as *I look towards the second half of my life I'm not too crazy about spending it alone. I was hoping she was the one.*


With what I've read about you, you don't have to hope anyone will be "the one". You have enough going for yourself that you can actUally have your pick on who's "the one". It'll happen


----------



## ArthurGPym

So this morning I unblocked Sarah's number and my phone loaded up with fifty-six missed calls and twenty-three texts. I flushed the texts without reading them. What would be the point? Deleted the calls and re-blocked her. I am also thinking about blocking most if not all of the common friends. I really don't want to be anywhere in her galaxy anymore. I'm so sick of this crap. 

The nice thing about living in California is that my chances of running into Sarah out in public are virtually nil.


----------



## SunCMars

I guarantee some facets of your relationship with Sarah will be sorely missed by her.

Stability, civility and finances.

Her two boys will be a constant reminder of her sad choice ---> it, not a mistake.

...................................

Some of these voice-mails and texts will become _in-person_ finger nails, rapping, tapping on your door!
Umm.


----------



## Kaliber

ArthurGPym said:


> So this morning I unblocked Sarah's number and my phone loaded up with fifty-six missed calls and twenty-three texts. I flushed the texts without reading them. What would be the point? Deleted the calls and re-blocked her.


@ArthurGPym delteting text/letters from someone that hurt you and not even entertaining the idea to read them show that you have a lot of strength.
Wished that all betrayed men had that strength, but weakness and simping is the norm for most (that's why they eat the crap sandwich from the same person every time)!


----------



## LATERILUS79

Dude, just reading your words on your relationship with those boys was amazing. Whatever hurt you are feeling, I hope that you can stand up proud and feel better about yourself for becoming a true father figure to those boys.
I’ve never heard of a story where the children are happy with the new girlfriend/boyfriend. They always want to sabotage the relationship in the hopes that their parents get back together. That’s how big an effect you had on those kids.
Their bio father? LoL. That guy definitely knows by now that his own sons choose you over him. Damn. If you enjoy revenge (I personally do) that is going to sting that loser like nothing else. In a short period of time, his boys prefer you. Sarah is going to know too. She knows what she’s lost. 
I agree with some of the others here. I think you should continue with some contact with these boys. I don’t know how much and I don’t know how, but I think a good man like yourself being such a good impression on two more humans only makes the world a better place. A worthy legacy to leave behind that you molded two more souls into good, moral people. I can only hope to have the same effect on my own children.


----------



## Evinrude58

I would send the gift, but pull back. Your ex gf will use them to reel you back in, and the reality is that they aren’t going to be a part of your life without their mom. Wish them well, move on. About all you can do. That was really chicken poop how she did you with her ex. You were wise to take the pain and move ahead.


----------



## steve81

your not plan B she just did't deserve a plan A. 
Your a good guy who probably got a luky scape.


----------



## steve81

my bad spelling...lucky


----------



## manowar

ArthurGPym said:


> I'm three gin and tonics into my evening and I'm pissed.


whoever cares less has the power.



ArthurGPym said:


> What is hard to accept is how fast I have fallen from grace.


here's why -------



ArthurGPym said:


> *Two very nice, exotic vacations *that I paid for. I usually* paid for all our meal*s, even though she makes as much with her salary as I do with my retirement. I have* helped* a great deal with finishing up the *remodeling of her house*: not so much monetarily but with my sweat and knowledge of construction. I *helped* her get competitive bids on the work and helped steer her through a big blowup with an unscrupulous contractor. She has a long way to go with the house but I *helped her* get a long ways down the road with it. I became a *good friend to her boys *and was even giving the younger one* free guitar lessons.* I was *her sounding board* for every bad day she had at work, every argument she had with ex-husband concerning the boys, every little victory in her life she shared with me.


Why???? Way way too much brother. She's got you figured out. You're predictable. there's no mystery. It's beta behavior. Sounding board or becoming a girlfriend. You had her man.

TIP: In your next relationship with a woman you like -- don't do this sh*t and see what happens.


----------



## fluffycoco

ArthurGPym said:


> So this morning I unblocked Sarah's number and my phone loaded up with fifty-six missed calls and twenty-three texts. I flushed the texts without reading them. What would be the point? Deleted the calls and re-blocked her. I am also thinking about blocking most if not all of the common friends. I really don't want to be anywhere in her galaxy anymore. I'm so sick of this crap.
> 
> The nice thing about living in California is that my chances of running into Sarah out in public are virtually nil.


I was thinking to ask you earlier if it was possible to be continued between you and Sarah well looks like no you must be a popular guy with lots stories please keep us update love to read


----------



## ArthurGPym

fluffycoco said:


> I was thinking to ask you earlier if it was possible to be continued between you and Sarah well looks like no you must be a popular guy with lots stories please keep us update love to read


No there will be no going back with her. Not even as any kind of FWB in the future after her second try with her ex husband fails, and it will.


----------



## Chaparralredux

Well, I will be surprised if she doesn’t turn up at your door step. So many texts and calls. There would not be that much if she just wanted to dump you and get back into the disfunctional relationship with her ex would she?


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> So this morning I unblocked Sarah's number and my phone loaded up with fifty-six missed calls and twenty-three texts. I flushed the texts without reading them. What would be the point? Deleted the calls and re-blocked her. I am also thinking about blocking most if not all of the common friends. I really don't want to be anywhere in her galaxy anymore. I'm so sick of this crap.
> 
> The nice thing about living in California is that my chances of running into Sarah out in public are virtually nil.


Never accept the unacceptable because that sets the tone and becomes permanent. Many try to hang in there living on hopium doing the “pick me dance” which just lowers your status. Recognizing this is who she is and you could never fix that is key.

No one can make you a chump except you. Nice job. You didn’t lose a thing.


----------



## AKA Broken Arrow

I’m sorry, man. Hope you’re doing better today. She blew it, plain and simple. She’ll realize it eventually, by then it will be too late. Best to you, you’ll find someone else to share your awesome life with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SunCMars

Evinrude58 said:


> I would send the gift, but pull back. Your ex gf will use them to reel you back in, and the reality is that they aren’t going to be a part of your life without their mom. Wish them well, move on. About all you can do. That was really chicken poop how she did you with her ex. You were wise to take the pain and move ahead.
> View attachment 76540


This post and picture reminded me of a coffee mug that I bought.
I bought it because I was glad to leave that sweat box!


----------



## Kamstel2

what do you think is the over/under is on when you find her outside your house asking for another chance?


----------



## Marc878

You did great. Way to many keep themselves in chump land for nothing.
Congratulations.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Something interesting happened over the weekend. I got a call from a female friend of Sarah's (I'll call her Barb). Barb called me out of the blue Saturday night asking what the hell was going on, and that she had seen Sarah and her ex-husband together at the local grocery store. Apparently she has been out of town for the last three weeks and just got back Friday. During the time I was with Sarah, I got to be really good friends with Barb and her husband. So I filled Barb in on what I knew and what happened between me and Sarah and she got seriously pissed. I could hear her boiling on the phone, and she called Sarah some pretty choice names. Barb told me that the next time she saw Sarah she was going to give her a piece of her mind. She does not like Sarah's ex at all, and she told me that I was the best thing that happened to Sarah and that she couldn't believe that she would dump me to go back to her ex. I told her I couldn't explain it either. LOL. Anyways, she invited me to her house this coming weekend to watch the playoffs with her and her husband, so I think I will go. It's better than staying home and stewing.


----------



## jlg07

Just make sure that she doesn't try to have Sarah there ALSO at the playoff party.... Sounds like she wouldn't do that, but you never know.


----------



## ArthurGPym

jlg07 said:


> Just make sure that she doesn't try to have Sarah there ALSO at the playoff party.... Sounds like she wouldn't do that, but you never know.


It's not a party. I'm just going over to their house for dinner and to watch the game with them. They live about halfway between me and Sarah so it is no big deal traveling there. Barb is a good lady and she didn't want me spending the playoffs alone. Actually, I had originally planned to go watch the playoffs at a sports bar where many of my local friends go, so I wasn't going to be alone anyways.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Kamstel2 said:


> what do you think is the over/under is on when you find her outside your house asking for another chance?


You mean what would I do if she shows up at my house? I don't know. I haven't thought about it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

She didn't dump you....she would've been quite happy tp keep you around to spend money on her while she tried again with her ex.

Plan B.

That's the kind of person she is.....remember that.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Does Barb have any decent single friends? She obviously has a high opinion of you and would put in a good word.


----------



## fluffycoco

ArthurGPym said:


> Something interesting happened over the weekend. I got a call from a female friend of Sarah's (I'll call her Barb). Barb called me out of the blue Saturday night asking what the hell was going on, and that she had seen Sarah and her ex-husband together at the local grocery store. Apparently she has been out of town for the last three weeks and just got back Friday. During the time I was with Sarah, I got to be really good friends with Barb and her husband.  So I filled Barb in on what I knew and what happened between me and Sarah and she got seriously pissed. I could hear her boiling on the phone, and she called Sarah some pretty choice names. Barb told me that the next time she saw Sarah she was going to give her a piece of her mind. She does not like Sarah's ex at all, and she told me that I was the best thing that happened to Sarah and that she couldn't believe that she would dump me to go back to her ex. I told her I couldn't explain it either. LOL. Anyways, she invited me to her house this coming weekend to watch the playoffs with her and her husband, so I think I will go. It's better than staying home and stewing.


I don't believe this Barb, she should ask Sarah instead of you if she is friend of her, who knows if Barb fabricated grocery story out of jealousy that Sarah dating you. I saw this kind of 'friend' before.


----------



## Openminded

ArthurGPym said:


> You mean what would I do if she shows up at my house? I don't know. I haven't thought about it.


Think about it because they’re going to crash, again, and it’s likely she’ll be coming back to you.


----------



## Kaliber

lifeistooshort said:


> She didn't dump you....she would've been quite happy tp keep you around to spend money on her while she tried again with her ex.
> 
> Plan B.


True!
She wanted you to be around (as plan B) to re-test drive her Ex!
But you killed that plan pretty quick @ArthurGPym


----------



## jlg07

ArthurGPym said:


> It's not a party. I'm just going over to their house for dinner and to watch the game with them. They live about halfway between me and Sarah so it is no big deal traveling there. Barb is a good lady and she didn't want me spending the playoffs alone. Actually, I had originally planned to go watch the playoffs at a sports bar where many of my local friends go, so I wasn't going to be alone anyways.


I just hope it's not one of those "Hey, look who just stopped by to say Hello" type of things. Sounds like Barb would NOT do that since she was so angry about what Sarah did.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I get the sense (only from your post Art) that she was given one story by Sarah and her spidey sense went off and she decided to call you directly because she knew something did not ad up...now whether barb is the Mrs. Kravitz of the neighborhood and is nosy to find the truth or she genuinely is angry (think the latter), i honestly think that you do go and show your face in this way you have nothing to hide and you did nothing wrong....the shame is all on her. And if by chance you see Sarah, be cordial but be cold. But one thing about weasels they tend to stay in the shadows, or dark for they know they did something wrong. Sometimes the best way to make a weasel feel uncomfortable is to show up in their comfort zone.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I honestly don’t think Barb would set me up. I think she is legitimately pissed that Sarah dumped me the way she did.


----------



## mickybill

I was thinking that Sarah was just being a shoulder to lean on for her EX, but you had a much better view on the whole thing.
Barb is probably genuinely pissed at her friend Sarah and knows that you're the good guy in this situation.
Go and enjoy the playoffs, and I bet sometime soon Barb will try to fix you up with one of her friends while sarah goes down the same path with her ex that made him her ex.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I am going on a dating moratorium for at least a year or until I get over Sarah. I don’t need a rebound fiasco. Been there done that.


----------



## ArthurGPym

UPDATE: The guitar and amp were ordered and should arrive to Sarah's oldest son next week. I just texted him to let him know. It is going to be interesting to see if it causes a kerfuffle.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> UPDATE: The guitar and amp were ordered and should arrive to Sarah's oldest son next week. I just texted him to let him know. It is going to be interesting to see if it causes a kerfuffle.


I think it speaks volumes about your character that you have not held her actions against her son. It sounds like a real friendship and bond happened there. It really sucks that mom had to screw it up. I don't think she fully appreciates what she has lost.


----------



## ArthurGPym

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think it speaks volumes about your character that you have not held her actions against her son. It sounds like a real friendship and bond happened there. It really sucks that mom had to screw it up. I don't think she fully appreciates what she has lost.


I'm just keeping my word. I want to show him that I will always keep my word with him. He didn't trust me when I first started dating his mom. He actively disliked me and wanted nothing to do with me. But he loves music and when he found out that I am a musician and I play guitar it broke the ice and we were able to bond over that common interest. He worked hard and made great strides in his playing, and I so I told him I would buy him an electric guitar and amp if he learned all his bar chord shapes and intervals. He did and I am following through. So the musical bond we have as friends is something I would never just toss away. I told him if his mom or dad give him any grief about the guitar then they should call me.


----------



## SRCSRC

Good for you that you kept your word and bought her son a guitar and amp. I don't know the age of the son, but if he is living at home with mom and dad, I advise you to stay away from that dynamic. Your last sentence inviting his mother or father to call you if they have a problem with the gift is troublesome. You need to totally disconnect from these people. I know you have blocked her in the past, but I get the impression that you would now like to talk to Sarah. At least that is what I glean from the last sentence of your recent post. It is a natural desire and I certainly am not criticizing you. But, beware of holding on to your past relationship with her.

You are rightfully angry and hurt. I don't think you will hold to your one-year moratorium on dating, nor should you. Continue your disengagement. Maintaining a friendship with her children is not a good idea unless they are on their own. Even that situation can bring about undesirable consequences. But beware of maintaining too many connections with Sarah, whether it be through her friends or family. It will make moving on harder to do.


----------



## ArthurGPym

You make it sound like I am manipulating him and using him to get back in touch with Sarah. I most certainly am not. I simply do not want his dad or mom getting pissed off when they see the gift is from me. I told him how to answer them when they ask him about it, and if they try to make him give it back then he can call me, or they can. I have no issue telling Sarah that this has nothing to do with her me or her ex-husband, and that I am only following through with a promise I made to her son. This kid has been jerked around so much the past few years, he doesn't need another adult jerking him around. Also. I fully expect as time goes on the boy (15) will get lost in the maze of high school friends and events, and I will be forgotten. That is normal. I will be here for him but I will not call him.


----------



## GusPolinski

You honored your word to the boy, as you should have. That is commendable.

How old is he?

ETA: Replied before seeing your last post — he’s 15.


----------



## SRCSRC

I am not accusing you of manipulating the boy. That is a rather harsh conclusion. If I thought you were doing that, I would have said it. What you are doing is keeping the door ajar for some type of interaction with Sarah. That is normal and I certainly don't criticize you for those thoughts or actions when everything is still so fresh. But if you want to talk to Sarah, call her. You're entitled to some answers. Then move on.


----------



## ArthurGPym

SRCSRC said:


> I am not accusing you of manipulating the boy. That is a rather harsh conclusion. If I thought you were doing that, I would have said it. What you are doing is keeping the door ajar for some type of interaction with Sarah. That is normal and I certainly don't criticize you for those thoughts or actions when everything is still so fresh. But if you want to talk to Sarah, call her. You're entitled to some answers. Then move on.


I apologize for misconstruing your intent. 

I do not have any intention of contacting Sarah directly again nor do I want to get back with her. No excuse she could come up with would be good enough for me, and she has shown me she is untrustworthy. A scorpion's nature is to sting and this fox won't get fooled again.


----------



## SRCSRC

I commend your fortitude. Stick to your guns.


----------



## ArthurGPym

The dinner with Barb and her husband went well and was a much needed respite from the loneliness I have been feeling over the past two weeks. We ate, drank, got lit and had an awesome time watching the game. It was the first real substantial meal I have had in weeks that I didn't try to throw up. Thankfully, we did not talk about Sarah or my situation at all. Barb was doting on me all night and chastising me for not eating and looking like ****. I think she feels bad on behalf of her crappy girlfriend. It was only when the Uber came to pick me up that Barb gave me a hug and told me that Sarah was an idiot for dumping me, and that one day she would live to regret it.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> The dinner with Barb and her husband went well and was a much needed respite from the loneliness I have been feeling over the past two weeks. We ate, drank, got lit and had an awesome time watching the game. It was the first real substantial meal I have had in weeks that I didn't try to throw up. Thankfully, we did not talk about Sarah or my situation at all. Barb was doting on me all night and chastising me for not eating and looking like ****. I think she feels bad on behalf of her crappy girlfriend. It was only when the Uber came to pick me up that Barb gave me a hug and told me that Sarah was an idiot for dumping me, and that one day she would live to regret it.


Everything you’ve been posting for the past few weeks goes to show how good of a man you are. No, I don’t mean the modern day “nice guy” or “pushover” man. I mean the real kind. The kind that has his ex-girlfriend’s son looking up to him instead of his deadbeat dad because his mom’s boyfriend is the better role model. The kind that his ex-girlfriend’s friend would rather hang out with because he has integrity and honor.

I’m not worried about you. I’m positive you will turn out great and have someone to share your life with.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> Everything you’ve been posting for the past few weeks goes to show how good of a man you are. No, I don’t mean the modern day “nice guy” or “pushover” man. I mean the real kind. The kind that has his ex-girlfriend’s son looking up to him instead of his deadbeat dad because his mom’s boyfriend is the better role model. The kind that his ex-girlfriend’s friend would rather hang out with because he has integrity and honor.
> 
> I’m not worried about you. I’m positive you will turn out great and have someone to share your life with.


Well thank you. That means a lot. As for Barb, I get the impression her friendship with Sarah is on a slippery slope right now. She has mentioned in passing that Sarah has burned her and other people before. Maybe once I am a little more emotionally distanced from this whole dog and pony show, I might ask Barb for some anecdotes about Sarah's past social faux pas.


----------



## manwithnoname

ArthurGPym said:


> Well thank you. That means a lot. As for Barb, I get the impression her friendship with Sarah is on a slippery slope right now. She has mentioned in passing that Sarah has burned her and other people before. *Maybe once I am a little more emotionally distanced from this whole dog and pony show, I might ask Barb for some anecdotes about Sarah's past social faux pas.*


Once you are more emotionally distanced, you won't give a ****. 

I tip my hat to you, following up on your promise to the kid. And not wanting to take her back should she come crawling along with the "snot and tears".

You'll be just fine.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Well thank you. That means a lot. As for Barb, I get the impression her friendship with Sarah is on a slippery slope right now. She has mentioned in passing that Sarah has burned her and other people before. Maybe once I am a little more emotionally distanced from this whole dog and pony show, I might ask Barb for some anecdotes about Sarah's past social faux pas.


This shouldn’t surprise you.


----------



## Openminded

I think Sarah’s a user and you were just one on a long list. She probably hopes you don’t realize that she played you in case she needs to come back one day.


----------



## fluffycoco

ArthurGPym said:


> Well thank you. That means a lot. As for Barb, I get the impression her friendship with Sarah is on a slippery slope right now. She has mentioned in passing that Sarah has burned her and other people before. Maybe once I am a little more emotionally distanced from this whole dog and pony show, I might ask Barb for some anecdotes about Sarah's past social faux pas.


of course her friendship with Sarah is on a slippery slope now, she hasn't been a real friend of her in the past, she try to offer her friendship to you now, maybe soon will become something more.
Barb is a snake in my opinion


----------



## Blondilocks

fluffycoco said:


> Barb is a snake in my opinion


Does that mean Barb's husband is also a snake?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Barb is a good gal. Her husband and I got to be friends because we are both into commodity trading online. Its a weird way to bond with another guy but we did. Hes a fun golf partner too: a keeper as far as friends go. Barb was friends with Sarah because they used to work together. Their friendship was already a bit shaky when I came on to the scene.


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> So this morning I unblocked Sarah's number and my phone loaded up with fifty-six missed calls and twenty-three texts. I flushed the texts without reading them. What would be the point? Deleted the calls and re-blocked her. I am also thinking about blocking most if not all of the common friends. I really don't want to be anywhere in her galaxy anymore. I'm so sick of this crap.
> 
> The nice thing about living in California is that my chances of running into Sarah out in public are virtually nil.


To your credit, you reached in 3 weeks a stage in the infidelity life cycle that's taken many 3 months or more to get to. You have much going for you so don't carry forward the sting of the negative experience, but the resolve you displayed. You are now better prepared having survived one of the most difficult emotional experiences one can endure and handled it.


----------



## Gabriel

Just read this story. Impressive job Arthur. I would have definitely read the texts and listed to any voicemails - not because I would have done anything, but because I am a curious creature. That took some discipline.

Yeah, I'd have zero tolerance for someone cozying back with an ex for any reason. That's always a huge threat and first indication of it being done, I'd be out of there. You just saw it really early, which was of great benefit.

My advice would be to put this woman out of your head. She was likely never the quality of woman you thought she was.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I forgot to mention that I also gave Barb a box of Sarah’s things she left at my house. Barb is going to take them to her or maybe already has. The box includes lingerie and her Pocket Rocket. 😝


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> I forgot to mention that I also gave Barb a box of Sarah’s things she left at my house. Barb is going to take them to her or maybe already has. The box includes lingerie and her Pocket Rocket. 😝


Lmao. That is super funny. And knowing a woman (hell I’d do it to, but added that just to irritate) she’s got to look through it before she gives it back unless told not to, lol.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> Lmao. That is super funny. And knowing a woman (hell I’d do it to, but added that just to irritate) she’s got to look through it before she gives it back unless told not to, lol.


I want Sarah’s ex to lay eyes on the contents. There are some massage oils and other sundries in there as well. Vindictive? Yep.


----------



## fluffycoco

ArthurGPym said:


> I want Sarah’s ex to lay eyes on the contents. There are some massage oils and other sundries in there as well. Vindictive? Yep.


Do you really think Sarah will go back with her ex? Actually I still don't get it why you so furious? maybe she was a little inappropriate at funeral, but who knows if that was her MIL's will asked her to do so. The point is she lost the loved one, she was grieving, why don't you give her a pass. at least read her texts and listen her voicemails to see if making sense. 
Maybe you somewhat tired of her already before the funeral, that is why you don't wanna see and listen her any explanation ?


----------



## seadoug105

On another note…. a recent study shows that reading and comprehension skills are lacking in many adults.


----------



## Evinrude58

fluffycoco said:


> Do you really think Sarah will go back with her ex? Actually I still don't get it why you so furious? maybe she was a little inappropriate at funeral, but who knows if that was her MIL's will asked her to do so. The point is she lost the loved one, she was grieving, why don't you give her a pass. at least read her texts and listen her voicemails to see if making sense.
> Maybe you somewhat tired of her already before the funeral, that is why you don't wanna see and listen her any explanation ?


SMH
Give her a pass on making out with her ex at the funeral all day and ignoring him, and then inviting her ex husband to a party he can’t come to, and again being all over hm to the point her own son was disgusted with her????

damn fluffy, really?!!


----------



## ArthurGPym

Sarah’s son and friends confirmed she and ex got back together after the funeral. No guessing here Fluffy. And I was not tired of her. The exact opposite actually.


----------



## Blondilocks

Evinrude58 said:


> Lmao. That is super funny. And knowing a woman (hell I’d do it to, *but added that just to irritate) *she’s got to look through it before she gives it back unless told not to, lol.


Not taking the bait.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> SMH
> Give her a pass on making out with her ex at the funeral all day and ignoring him, and then inviting her ex husband to a party he can’t come to, and again being all over hm to the point her own son was disgusted with her????
> 
> damn fluffy, really?!!


to be accurate they were not making out. They held hands at the burial. Rest of the time they just sat next to each other like a united couple.


----------



## Blondilocks

It looks like Sarah forgot he was her ex for a reason.

You're better off knowing now rather than later. Maybe send a little thank-you to MIL for kicking the bucket in a timely fashion.


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> to be accurate they were not making out. They held hands at the burial. Rest of the time they just sat next to each other like a united couple.


I know, but it was enough that you noticed. And your observations were accurate. Othe people noticed also.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Yeah that got people talking. I had several friends ask me the week after the funeral if Sarah and I had broke up.


----------



## Evinrude58

You handles it well, sir. I think it showed huge character on your part. What one does when they’re hurting and under stress...... telling.
You kept your composure, didn’t have a big argument with her, didn’t cry and plead..... just went your way and still treated the people who treated you right, with respect and compassion.

I just hate that it happened. You will find a better woman than she is, and it won’t be that difficult.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Thanks Evinrude. The issue im having a hard time resolving was just how good an actress and manipulator she is.


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> Thanks Evinrude. The issue im having a hard time resolving was just how good an actress and manipulator she is.


The only thing that will help you wrap your head around that is time. My last 10 years of life makes me feel at this point that I’m maybe incapable of falling in love with a woman and living happy with no negative relationship thoughts going through my head constantly. Don’t let that be you. They’re not all actors. I’m hopeful and have a mustard seed size faith that when I meet a good woman, I’ll know it, trust her, and be fine again with trust and confidence in someone.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Thanks Evinrude. The issue im having a hard time resolving was just how good an actress and manipulator she is.


Cmon man. You weren’t the first and won’t be the last to go through something like this. It happens to the best. So what. You’ll be fine.

The important thing is how you handled it. I get really tired of seeing weak ass doormats wallowing in crap like this. 

You did great. She is an ass and you put her in her place. Good for you. Poor muffin.

Going forward let the contact with her sons die off. She’s there mom. Let them figure it out.


----------



## GoldenR

fluffycoco said:


> Do you really think Sarah will go back with her ex? Actually I still don't get it why you so furious? maybe she was a little inappropriate at funeral, but who knows if that was her MIL's will asked her to do so. The point is she lost the loved one, she was grieving, why don't you give her a pass. at least read her texts and listen her voicemails to see if making sense.
> Maybe you somewhat tired of her already before the funeral, that is why you don't wanna see and listen her any explanation ?



Sarah?


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> Thanks Evinrude. The issue im having a hard time resolving was just how good an actress and manipulator she is.


Fractured souls are fractured souls. This is what they do.


----------



## Livvie

fluffycoco said:


> Do you really think Sarah will go back with her ex? Actually I still don't get it why you so furious? maybe she was a little inappropriate at funeral, but who knows if that was her MIL's will asked her to do so. The point is she lost the loved one, she was grieving, why don't you give her a pass. at least read her texts and listen her voicemails to see if making sense.
> Maybe you somewhat tired of her already before the funeral, that is why you don't wanna see and listen her any explanation ?


Are you from planet pussywhipped enabler?

What the heck.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> Cmon man. You weren’t the first and won’t be the last to go through something like this. It happens to the best. So what. You’ll be fine.
> 
> The important thing is how you handled it. I get really tired of seeing weak ass doormats wallowing in crap like this.
> 
> You did great. She is an ass and you put her in her place. Good for you. Poor muffin.
> 
> Going forward let the contact with her sons die off. She’s there mom. Let them figure it out.


Yeah I guess I just feel like I should have seen some signs before it all went down. I have been a steady dater all my adult life: from right after my first marriage ended all the way to the present I have dated and slept with many women. I could always tell within the first ten minutes of a date whether or not I would take her back home, take her to bed, or ask her out on a second date. Sarah was the first gal in over a decade that I ever felt like "This may be the one... she may be the one I can settle down with." I mean, she deserves an Oscar for her performance. She totally pulled the wool over my eyes. Completely and utterly suckered.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Livvie said:


> Are you from planet pussywhipped enabler?
> 
> What the heck.


I think he needs to tell us where he buys his weed.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah I guess I just feel like I should have seen some signs before it all went down. I have been a steady dater all my adult life: from right after my first marriage ended all the way to the present I have dated and slept with many women. I could always tell within the first ten minutes of a date whether or not I would take her back home, take her to bed, or ask her out on a second date. Sarah was the first gal in over a decade that I ever felt like "This may be the one... she may be the one I can settle down with." I mean, she deserves an Oscar for her performance. She totally pulled the wool over my eyes. Completely and utterly suckered.


Look at it this way. You woke up quick and dealt with it. No harm done and you had a good time until she showed her true colors.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> Look at it this way. You woke up quick and dealt with it. No harm done and you had a good time until she showed her true colors.


just to my heart. She did a number on me.

and she f*cked up my golf handicap too. I haven’t been able to play for crap.


----------



## Marc878

Gotcha but the reality is she’s not worth losing a seconds sleep over. She showed you who she is.


----------



## anchorwatch

ArthurGPym said:


> and she f*cked up my golf handicap too. I haven’t been able to play for crap.


Ah, go treat yourself to a new Scotty. That'll cure it for sure... 🙄


----------



## ArthurGPym

Sarah's boy got his guitar and amp last night. He called me up and is over the moon. Played some licks for me over the phone. The kid has some chops and he's so young! I asked if his mom was alright with it and he said she didn't say anything, so that's a relief. We talked a bit about how he's doing in school and it was a nice chat. Told him I wouldn't be around anymore but that he should keep my phone number if he ever needs someone to talk to. I will start backing away now


----------



## Gabriel

Backing away is the only correct response.

And honestly, I wouldn't go down the road of her being a great actress. She probably went with the flow- she really enjoyed you, as you did her. Guessing in the back of her head, the ex was always there. I mean they have kids together, etc. My guess is the ex opened the door shortly before the funeral, she felt conflicted, and then at the funeral all the feelings came back. Doesn't mean she didn't have genuine feelings for you before that. You just got bumped out by a powerful force - an orbiting ex she shares kids/family with. It's a tough opponent in just about every case.

She has a weakness for him, as many would with a history like that.

In your shoes I would just chalk this up to one of your better runs. NEXT!


----------



## Evinrude58

What peeves me is that she had plans of doing some cake eating— having the ex and keeping him on the hook. If she wanted her ex, at least have the decency to break things off with Arthur. She is not a trustworthy person. Arthur did well to dump her and move on.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> Sarah's boy got his guitar and amp last night. He called me up and is over the moon. Played some licks for me over the phone. The kid has some chops and he's so young! I asked if his mom was alright with it and he said she didn't say anything, so that's a relief. We talked a bit about how he's doing in school and it was a nice chat. Told him I wouldn't be around anymore but that he should keep my phone number if he ever needs someone to talk to. I will start backing away now


That's awesome.

Like I said in a previous post, I'm not worried about you. Things are going to work out for you, I know it.

Sarah missed out big time in having a *real* male role-model in her son's life. She could have had her boy grow up to be a real man. It was all but guaranteed. You taught him that hard work pays off in the long run. That there are rewards at the end if he can keep his focus. You've taught him an appreciation for what he has and to give thanks for those that help him. Sarah screwed that all up. I am concerned this boy's worthless father is going to undo the good you brought to this boy's life. You were more of a Dad to that boy in 2 years than what his biological father will ever be. I hope in the back of his mind he remembers you when he's an adult and rekindles his friendship with you sometime in the future. 

Sarah didn't say anything about the gift.... but you know in the back of her and her exhusband's mind they don't like it. 😁


----------



## ArthurGPym

Gabriel said:


> Backing away is the only correct response.
> 
> And honestly, I wouldn't go down the road of her being a great actress. She probably went with the flow- she really enjoyed you, as you did her. Guessing in the back of her head, the ex was always there. I mean they have kids together, etc. My guess is the ex opened the door shortly before the funeral, she felt conflicted, and then at the funeral all the feelings came back. Doesn't mean she didn't have genuine feelings for you before that. You just got bumped out by a powerful force - an orbiting ex she shares kids/family with. It's a tough opponent in just about every case.
> 
> She has a weakness for him, as many would with a history like that.
> 
> In your shoes I would just chalk this up to one of your better runs. NEXT!


Well it is the last time I ever get involved with a recent divorcee or any gal with kids. It hurts too bad to let go. Deep down I always wanted kids and I felt kind of like a surrogate dad to the two boys, even though I know that was wrong to do so. I also realize I was her rebound, and that just never works out. I was such an idiot to get that deep.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> That's awesome.
> 
> Like I said in a previous post, I'm not worried about you. Things are going to work out for you, I know it.
> 
> Sarah missed out big time in having a *real* male role-model in her son's life. She could have had her boy grow up to be a real man. It was all but guaranteed. You taught him that hard work pays off in the long run. That there are rewards at the end if he can keep his focus. You've taught him an appreciation for what he has and to give thanks for those that help him. Sarah screwed that all up. I am concerned this boy's worthless father is going to undo the good you brought to this boy's life. You were more of a Dad to that boy in 2 years than what his biological father will ever be. I hope in the back of his mind he remembers you when he's an adult and rekindles his friendship with you sometime in the future.
> 
> Sarah didn't say anything about the gift.... but you know in the back of her and her exhusband's mind they don't like it. 😁


I want to clarify something: Sarah's husband is not a bad guy, and he's a good father to his boys. I saw myself as their doting uncle, but I didn't realize how much I had bonded with them until now. No, the ex-husband is not a bad guy in and of himself. He has his crap together in terms of employment. His only drawback is that he's socially awkward and grumpy. He and Sarah were just not getting along for years and that's why they divorced, or so that is the story I have been told.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> Deep down I always wanted kids and I felt kind of like a surrogate dad to the two boys, even though I know that was wrong to do so.


No dude, no. There was nothing wrong with creating a bond with those two boys. You said it yourself, you thought Sarah was for the long term. If that would have been the case, then you would have been in those boys lives for many years. It makes perfect sense that you would have ended up being a surrogate dad to them. Clearly, Sarah was ok with it or she would have never introduced you to them.

My "deadbeat dad" comments stem from what was said to you by the older boy. So maybe the bio-father isn't a deadbeat, but he certainly isn't great.

The boy didn't want you and his mother to break up.
He didn't want his bio-father to get back together with his mother. I need to read back through your comments, but I think you said he was on the verge of tears knowing that you wouldn't be around any more.
He did the hard work to earn his guitar. 

This is some powerful stuff. You are the exception, not the rule. Kids almost always want their parents to stay together. They almost always don't want the new boyfriend/girlfriend to be their new parent. You broke through that in record time. You built a bond with him that should been close to impossible to do. Was the boy learning a good value system from his bio-father or from you? Is his bio-father talking to him about what's going on in school? In his life? Maybe. I don't know, but I do know that this kid wants to talk to you about it. 

I know others here are telling you to break away from the boys. I guess that's right. Seems like that is what everyone is saying to do. I personally don't see a problem with keeping in contact, but that is just me. If you do break contact, I hope this kid calls you up on his 18th birthday to catch up with you.


----------



## ArthurGPym

The bio-dad, like I said, is not a "bad" guy, but he has a short temper and is surly. He is from somewhere on the East Coast and has that rather brash personality that can rub people here out West the wrong way. The older son and his dad really never bonded well. I don't know why for sure, but they were never really close from what I could see. The younger boy seems very close to the ex-husband and has a lot of his father's traits.


----------



## TDSC60

Don't beat yourself up over "not seeing it coming". Truthfully, there was nothing to see until the funeral.

She was never an actress. She was not planning it (at least I don't think she was). She is simply an egotistical narcissist. Sucks for you, but it happens.

Your only failing was that you thought she cared for you more than she actually did. 

Do not assume that everyone's moral compass points them in the same direction as yours does.


----------



## Marc878

You never know. Her x may have grown tired of her ****.


----------



## ArthurGPym

TDSC60 said:


> Your only failing was that you thought she cared for you more than she actually did.


It is hard to believe given how well she treated me before the funeral, but this is obviously the case. It hurts to admit it.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> You never know. Her x may have grown tired of her ****.


Oh I can believe this. She can be a royal pain in the ass when she plants her feet.


----------



## ArthurGPym

So I am thinking of boarding up the house and going to Spain next month. There is a flamenco guitar teacher in San Lorenzo del Escorial who is doing a month of classes four days a week, and I have always wanted to visit Spain and learn to play better. I'm really considering it. I contacted him and he has some slots available. It would be a great opportunity to better myself at my favorite passion, and would allow me to get some distance from all this crap I've been going through. Looks like a gorgeous town and the prices for hotels are dirt cheap.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> So I am thinking of boarding up the house and going to Spain next month. There is a flamenco guitar teacher in San Lorenzo del Escorial who is doing a month of classes four days a week, and I have always wanted to visit Spain and learn to play better. I'm really considering it. I contacted him and he has some slots available. It would be a great opportunity to better myself at my favorite passion, and would allow me to get some distance from all this crap I've been going through. Looks like a gorgeous town and the prices for hotels are dirt cheap.


Perfect. It’ll get you out of the victim chair. Plus those dark haired senoritas. Of course we will need pictures of the food there. 😋


----------



## Marc878

I’d send muffin a postcard. Just my way of saying thanks 😂


----------



## Marc878

I’m sure her x will console her. Poor muffin needs a shoulder to cry on.


----------



## Evinrude58

A month in Spain learning how to play something cool? Yeah, that’s how we all should deal with a woman problem. Bravo


----------



## ArthurGPym

Run away.


----------



## Chillidog

ArthurGPym said:


> Run away.


More like expanding your horizons


----------



## TDSC60

No..not running away.

Simply living your life for yourself, not for someone else.

And that is exactly what you need. New experiences that YOU want. As a single man, no need to consider anything other than what you want.


----------



## Openminded

That might have been her story of why they divorced but that also might be her spin on it. My opinion is that she was an opportunist and you suited her purpose at that time. That doesn’t mean she didn’t care about you — just that she didn’t care nearly as much as you did and that likely would have never changed. Something to remember for the future. As for running off to Spain? A great idea.


----------



## Evinrude58

I second the postcard thing. With a big middle finger on it lol


----------



## ArthurGPym

So Im signed up. I’ll be flying to Madrid on the 30th. And I’m telling only my family I’m going. Man its fun being impulsive!


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> Well it is the last time I ever get involved with a recent divorcee or any gal with kids. It hurts too bad to let go. Deep down I always wanted kids and I felt kind of like a surrogate dad to the two boys, even though I know that was wrong to do so. I also realize I was her rebound, and that just never works out. I was such an idiot to get that deep.


Seriously, you bought a lemon. Simple as that. There are millions of available women with kids who would DIE to have you CONSIDER them, let alone have a meaningful relationship. Please don't fear them. Someone, who is just like you needs you and is praying that you enter their lives. I mean this with all sincerity. Continue to be the light you seek.

Quick story. In the months following my 2nd fiancé cheating on me in back-to-back relationships, I made no declarations that I can recall, other than having fun and let the chips fall where they may. My current wife on the other hand had been with a string of questionable characters (her words) and started praying and hoping for just a nice person. She'd had enough of the dating game and just wanted someone peaceful and happy.

I met her at a bar of all places and approached her kind of aggressively. I asked to meet with her again and she declined. It wasn't a strong enough decline so I kept talking. She too had determined I would be another in a line of ass-wipes. Asked for her number again and she gives me the main number at a major corporation she works at. No problem. I track her down at some her at a remote client site she worked at. She can't believe it. She gave me the number just to get me off of her at the bar.  Rest is history.

Anyway, she too had kind of given up. It's been over 25 infidelity free years with us. Someone is out there for you. But guess what Arthur? You HAD to go through Sarah to get to who it's going to be. The Sarah's of the world are sometimes necessary speed bumps to get to "the one". But you have to be open to allowing the universe to run its course. Running its course means bad experiences to get to the good ones sometimes. That’s just the way it goes. Let it be.


----------



## fluffycoco

ArthurGPym said:


> So Im signed up. I’ll be flying to Madrid on the 30th. And I’m telling only my family I’m going. Man its fun being impulsive!


Going alone? sounds lonely but who knows who you will meet over there remember send some pictures.


----------



## ArthurGPym

fluffycoco said:


> Going alone? sounds lonely but who knows who you will meet over there remember send some pictures.


Yes alone. But I hope to make some friends there. Not romantic ones. Even as tempting as Spanish women are, I plan on immersing myself in my courses, practicing for hours every day, seeing some sights, and enjoying some good food and sangria, all the while surrounded by good music and good people.


----------



## Blondilocks

Oh, flamenco! Be still my heart. Husband and I absolutely loved flamenco. Got to see Charo perform in a little hole in the wall on Oahu. Los Angeles had a place featuring flamenco guitar and flamenco dancing. Fabulous.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Blondilocks said:


> Oh, flamenco! Be still my heart. Husband and I absolutely loved flamenco. Got to see Charo perform in a little hole in the wall on Oahu. Los Angeles had a place featuring flamenco guitar and flamenco dancing. Fabulous.


Yes it is one of my passions. I'm not very good but the journey is what it is all about. 

Charo is hugely underappreciated as an artist. Her coochie coochie aside, she is a master guitarista. She has the most flawless left-hand technique.


----------



## Blondilocks

Yep, that cuchi-cuchi schtick did her no favors. I believe she is one of the top flamenco artists in the world.


----------



## FoolishOne

I'm only on page 8 but..... this relationship kinda seemed doomed from the start. (Not throwing stones. I live in an extreamly thin glass house. Just trying to help with things I've learned about myself.) Both parties handled thier issues in a very childish manner. OBVIOUSLY she was waaay worse than he was, but still...

OP, why didn't you just tell her why you left the funeral? Why did you just bottle it all up and get passive aggressive? Why were you trying to play high school love games. Being moody (justifiably so), then going silent. You say you don't want to play into the games.... But you helped start and maintain the mind games.

I always feel like the last person who should be giving anyone advice so I mostly just lerk lately but, imho the proper reaction should have been to answer her question of why you left the funeral...... with the truth. You were very uncomfortable with how she was acting with her ex. You felt like an interloper. She told you to wait and she would come to you. She didn't. She offended you.

Is this normally how you handle anger and disappointment? If so, work on that. She is off her rocker treating you like this, but you helped her drag all this out, and possibly made her feel abandoned during a tough time if she was dumb enough to not understand why you were angry. I'm not saying you pushed her into his arms, by any measure, but this kind of non-communication is unhealthy.

When you have a problem, you need to be able to just say it. Bottling it up, acting irritable and then shutting down open communication is bad for you and bad for relationships. From what I can tell, beginning to end, you haven't had a single open and honest conversation with her about ANYTHING having to do with this.

I think, you are making the right choice cutting her out of your life, but it could have been a lot easier than all these mind games trying to psycho analyze every little interaction in a vacuum, stewing in your own anger, fear, resentment, and worry.

Please work on better communication for future relationships. This is coming from the queen of bad communication btw. I hope my comments didn't sound too harsh. I wish you all the luck in the world in the future. You sound like a good man. Just don't bottle that crap up. Let it out or you will blow up one day.

I'll finish reading the rest and hope for the best.

Edit: so I read the rest. Glad to see you moving on with style. I also think you are a good man with the way you treated her son. Keep your head up.

I can almost guarantee her ex and her won't work out long term. This is just a little trauma bonding. Please don't ever consider giving her another way into your life. You don't need that bad juju in your life. Enjoy Spain!!


----------



## ArthurGPym

FoolishOne said:


> I'm only on page 8 but..... this relationship kinda seemed doomed from the start. (Not throwing stones. I live in an extreamly thin glass house. Just trying to help with things I've learned about myself.) Both parties handled thier issues in a very childish manner. OBVIOUSLY she was waaay worse than he was, but still...


I can't argue with that. Yes, I could have handled it in a more mature manner. She definitely could have.



> OP, why didn't you just tell her why you left the funeral? Why did you just bottle it all up and get passive aggressive? Why were you trying to play high school love games.


Well, I have to defend myself a bit here: it was a funeral. Sarah's MIL was a much loved person and everyone was in mourning. I was sort of taking care of the boys and helping them deal with stuff. And as irritated as I was with Sarah hanging on her ex all day and evening, I did not want to confront her at a time when she too was in deep mourning. When she called me that night she had been crying, so I didn't feel it was the time to confront her about it. Sarah's MIL was like a mother to her in many ways. Sarah's own mom is not that great. Her mom went to the funeral but bailed and did not even go to the burial or reception.

We did get together the next week but the only thing good about that weekend was the sex. Sarah was sullen, subdued and not talkative, so I didn't bring it up because she didn't, and frankly I just felt like it wasn't time. That was probably my mistake, but I can't go back and change it. She just apologized for kind of ignoring me at the funeral and then we went in the bedroom and had crazy monkey sex after that. I think, looking back, maybe that was some sort of goodbye sex and she was getting ready in her mind to dump me. She just didn't know how she was going to go about it at the time.



> Being moody (justifiably so), then going silent. You say you don't want to play into the games.... But you helped start and maintain the mind games.


I really wasn't trying to play mind games. My intent between the time of the funeral and the time we broke up was to give her space. Everyone I get messages from and corresponded with on these boards all told me to "Back off... back off.. give her space... don't smother her... give her time'... blah blah blah." So see, I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't. It was only when she barred me from coming to her 4th of July party that I cut off contact and went dark. I could see what was happening and I knew in my gut at that moment that she was back together with her ex. People on TAM and on other boards always say "go dark... go full 180 and ignore her calls and texts." So, that is what I did.



> I always feel like the last person who should be giving anyone advice so I mostly just lerk lately but, imho the proper reaction should have been to answer her question of why you left the funeral...... with the truth. You were very uncomfortable with how she was acting with her ex. You felt like an interloper. She told you to wait and she would come to you. She didn't. She offended you.


I did tell her why. That next weekend I told her. I told her I was hurt seeing her holding hands with her ex and then pretty much treating me like I didn't exist. I told her I left because the crowd had trickled to nothing and I didn't feel like waiting in the den while she and ex-hubby talked to the last few people in the living room so I left. I apologized for not telling her goodnight before I left, even though I didn't think she really deserved an apology. And she did apologize. Then she just sort of jumped me and *****-bombed me.



> Is this normally how you handle anger and disappointment?


No.



> If so, work on that. She is off her rocker treating you like this, but you helped her drag all this out, and possibly made her feel abandoned during a tough time if she was dumb enough to not understand why you were angry. I'm not saying you pushed her into his arms, by any measure, but this kind of non-communication is unhealthy.


Between the time her MIL died and the funeral I was there for her 24/7 and she leaned on me heavily. She cried herself to sleep in my arms two or three times that week. It was only a couple of days before the funeral and during the funeral itself that the wind suddenly changed and the whole situation took a hard ninety degrees. It was like a switch was pulled and suddenly I'm out in the cold looking in through the window. I definitely did not push her into his arms. She broke from me, turned around and walked back to him with no warning. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.



> When you have a problem, you need to be able to just say it. Bottling it up, acting irritable and then shutting down open communication is bad for you and bad for relationships. From what I can tell, beginning to end, you haven't had a single open and honest conversation with her about ANYTHING having to do with this.


During normal circumstances I would have done this. This situation was anything but normal. And for what it is worth, I did tell her how I was feeling in a non-irritable way. The only social faux pas I made was not saying goodnight to her properly the night of the funeral. However, it would not have changed anything if I had. She had already made up her mind you see. She knew I was was pissed, and she knew why, but she threw it back on me and made me out to be the bad guy that night. I should have never given her that ammo. I ee that now and I see how she manipulated the situation to make herself look like the poor put-upon girlfriend.



> I think, you are making the right choice cutting her out of your life, but it could have been a lot easier than all these mind games trying to psycho analyze every little interaction in a vacuum, stewing in your own anger, fear, resentment, and worry.


What vacuum? I got dumped. She didn't come right out and verbally dump me. I saw the writing on the wall and saved her the trouble and just cut it off.



> Please work on better communication for future relationships. This is coming from the queen of bad communication btw. I hope my comments didn't sound too harsh. I wish you all the luck in the world in the future. You sound like a good man. Just don't bottle that crap up. Let it out or you will blow up one day.


All of us, myself included can learn to communicate better. But what I hope to do more than that is come to a place where I can spot phonies early on and avoid situations like this. I should have educated myself back when my first wife cheated on me but I never did. So when I get back from Spain some IC is in order for me.




> Edit: so I read the rest. Glad to see you moving on with style. I also think you are a good man with the way you treated her son. Keep your head up.
> 
> I can almost guarantee her ex and her won't work out long term. This is just a little trauma bonding. Please don't ever consider giving her another way into your life. You don't need that bad juju in your life. Enjoy Spain!!


It will most likely not work out between them. As for her ever coming back and asking me for a second chance? No, she's too proud for that.


----------



## Evinrude58

You handled what happened perfectly. Don’t let people Maie you second guess yourself whatsoever. You got a feeling from her behavior that she was wanting her ex. Then she She barred you from a party she was throwing and invited her ex who she was all over as you expected. She has proven all your suspicions correct and there was no lack of communication here other than your gf hiding the fact that she wanted her ex and you were cannon fodder while pretending she had strong feelings for you so you’d keep being you to her and treat her like a queen.

you seem like a good communicator to me. It’s your gf who has ALL the blame on this deal.
As you said, there wasn’t much that could be said when you’re watching your gf come on to another man and shutting you out of her life so she can chase him. 

Work on your communication???????
No, I see zero you need to work on. I’m 
sure you’re not perfect, but your thoughts and actions were all logical and appropriate in every way from my point of view.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> You handled what happened perfectly. Don’t let people Maie you second guess yourself whatsoever. You got a feeling from her behavior that she was wanting her ex. Then she She barred you from a party she was throwing and invited her ex who she was all over as you expected. She has proven all your suspicions correct and there was no lack of communication here other than your gf hiding the fact that she wanted her ex and you were cannon fodder while pretending she had strong feelings for you so you’d keep being you to her and treat her like a queen.
> 
> you seem like a good communicator to me. It’s your gf who has ALL the blame on this deal.
> As you said, there wasn’t much that could be said when you’re watching your gf come on to another man and shutting you out of her life so she can chase him.
> 
> Work on your communication???????
> No, I see zero you need to work on. I’m
> sure you’re not perfect, but your thoughts and actions were all logical and appropriate in every way from my point of view.


Well, there are those here who think I should have reacted in the way a husband would. Well, I wasn't her husband. I was a boyfriend -- a very serious boyfriend and we were in what I thought was a serious relationship -- so in reality I did not have the obligation to act the way a husband would act. Husbands have to be more subtle and play the long game, more so than a boyfriend has to, because they are looking at losing half of everything they have. The stakes are higher so the way a husband handles situations like this has to be a lot different.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> I can't argue with that. Yes, I could have handled it in a more mature manner. She definitely could have.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I have to defend myself a bit here: it was a funeral. Sarah's MIL was a much loved person and everyone was in mourning. I was sort of taking care of the boys and helping them deal with stuff. And as irritated as I was with Sarah hanging on her ex all day and evening, I did not want to confront her at a time when she too was in deep mourning. When she called me that night she had been crying, so I didn't feel it was the time to confront her about it. Sarah's MIL was like a mother to her in many ways. Sarah's own mom is not that great. Her mom went to the funeral but bailed and did not even go to the burial or reception.
> 
> We did get together the next week but the only thing good about that weekend was the sex. Sarah was sullen, subdued and not talkative, so I didn't bring it up because she didn't, and frankly I just felt like it wasn't time. That was probably my mistake, but I can't go back and change it. She just apologized for kind of ignoring me at the funeral and then we went in the bedroom and had crazy monkey sex after that. I think, looking back, maybe that was some sort of goodbye sex and she was getting ready in her mind to dump me. She just didn't know how she was going to go about it at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> I really wasn't trying to play mind games. My intent between the time of the funeral and the time we broke up was to give her space. Everyone I get messages from and corresponded with on these boards all told me to "Back off... back off.. give her space... don't smother her... give her time'... blah blah blah." So see, I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't. It was only when she barred me from coming to her 4th of July party that I cut off contact and went dark. I could see what was happening and I knew in my gut at that moment that she was back together with her ex. People on TAM and on other boards always say "go dark... go full 180 and ignore her calls and texts." So, that is what I did.
> 
> 
> 
> I did tell her why. That next weekend I told her. I told her I was hurt seeing her holding hands with her ex and then pretty much treating me like I didn't exist. I told her I left because the crowd had trickled to nothing and I didn't feel like waiting in the den while she and ex-hubby talked to the last few people in the living room so I left. I apologized for not telling her goodnight before I left, even though I didn't think she really deserved an apology. And she did apologize. Then she just sort of jumped me and ***-bombed me.
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> Between the time her MIL died and the funeral I was there for her 24/7 and she leaned on me heavily. She cried herself to sleep in my arms two or three times that week. It was only a couple of days before the funeral and during the funeral itself that the wind suddenly changed and the whole situation took a hard ninety degrees. It was like a switch was pulled and suddenly I'm out in the cold looking in through the window. I definitely did not push her into his arms. She broke from me, turned around and walked back to him with no warning. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
> 
> 
> 
> During normal circumstances I would have done this. This situation was anything but normal. And for what it is worth, I did tell her how I was feeling in a non-irritable way. The only social faux pas I made was not saying goodnight to her properly the night of the funeral. However, it would not have changed anything if I had. She had already made up her mind you see. She knew I was was pissed, and she knew why, but she threw it back on me and made me out to be the bad guy that night. I should have never given her that ammo. I ee that now and I see how she manipulated the situation to make herself look like the poor put-upon girlfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> What vacuum? I got dumped. She didn't come right out and verbally dump me. I saw the writing on the wall and saved her the trouble and just cut it off.
> 
> 
> 
> All of us, myself included can learn to communicate better. But what I hope to do more than that is come to a place where I can spot phonies early on and avoid situations like this. I should have educated myself back when my first wife cheated on me but I never did. So when I get back from Spain some IC is in order for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will most likely not work out between them. As for her ever coming back and asking me for a second chance? No, she's too proud for that.


Ummmmm... I don't see what FoolishOne sees. Arthur, you handled yourself like a boss.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I think some people assume I have risen above this situation and am "handling it like a boss". Well I certainly do not feel that way. I miss her terribly and my jealousy towards her ex-husband is robbing me of sleep and causing me no end of anxiety. I feel like ****. That is why I am going to Spain: not just to pursue a passion, but to get my mind off of Sarah and put some distance between myself and this whole situation.


----------



## Blondilocks

ArthurGPym said:


> I was sort of taking care of the boys and helping them deal with stuff.


Yeah, you could have told her good-bye so she would have had an opportunity to thank you for babysitting her children while she played grief-stricken wife with ex.


----------



## dubsey

ArthurGPym said:


> Well, there are those here who think I should have reacted in the way a husband would. Well, I wasn't her husband. I was a boyfriend -- a very serious boyfriend and we were in what I thought was a serious relationship -- so in reality I did not have the obligation to act the way a husband would act. Husbands have to be more subtle and play the long game, more so than a boyfriend has to, because they are looking at losing half of everything they have. The stakes are higher so the way a husband handles situations like this has to be a lot different.


Nah, you're good, mate. She possibly wanted you to jump up and down and play the "pick me" game. People who are mourning do weird things to make themselves feel good. Some people go out and buy stuff, or re-decorate a room, etc. She chose to get a little extra attention, a little extra validation about herself. She may not even know why she did it, honestly.

You chose not to engage in it. No harm in that.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> I think some people assume I have risen above this situation and am "handling it like a boss". Well I certainly do not feel that way. I miss her terribly and my jealousy towards her ex-husband is robbing me of sleep and causing me no end of anxiety. I feel like ****. That is why I am going to Spain: not just to pursue a passion, but to get my mind off of Sarah and put some distance between myself and this whole situation.


Like I said. You are handling this like a boss.

You are hurt because you are human, and you are a good person. No one in their right mind would say this is easy to get over. You are fighting through the bad feelings and doing something about it. You could be lying on the ground feeling sorry for yourself (honestly, probably what I would do), or you can get up and do something about it. I think your trip to Spain is a perfect idea and I think it will help tremendously on your way to healing.


----------



## Gabriel

A month in Spain sounds incredible. I'm going for a week in September, assuming they still let us in...


----------



## ArthurGPym

Gabriel said:


> A month in Spain sounds incredible. I'm going for a week in September, assuming they still let us in...


The only drawback to going to Spain right now is that it is hot. Definitely not peak season for travel. September will be perfect for you. 

I already checked with my travel agent and l have to submit a document stating that I passed a Covid test within 72 hours prior to arriving at the airport in Spain. You won't get through customs without showing it to them. So plan on taking the test three days prior to your flight.


----------



## ArthurGPym

dubsey said:


> Nah, you're good, mate. She possibly wanted you to jump up and down and play the "pick me" game. People who are mourning do weird things to make themselves feel good. Some people go out and buy stuff, or re-decorate a room, etc. She chose to get a little extra attention, a little extra validation about herself. She may not even know why she did it, honestly.
> 
> You chose not to engage in it. No harm in that.


I think that last night we spent together she was sullen because she knew it might be the last time she saw me. She was on the cusp of making a decisions between me and her ex. So that is the reason for the desperate lovemaking. I think she wanted to feel connected to me one last time before pulling the plug. Gosh I feel so honored.


----------



## Taxman

If experience is any indicator, Sarah will find herself once again the victim of grumpy and socially challenged. This time it will occur to her that she was almost out but she dragged herself back in. I have heard from the recently divorced that they wrecked their first, second and third relationship after divorce by either pursuing their ex, or demanding that the new bf/gf act like the ex. (Had one guy ask if she wanted him to act just like her last husband and screw either her best fiend, his best friend or the nanny?-great wake up call.) My take? Six months after reconciliation, Sarah will find herself asking the same questions that precipitated her divorce. She will likely turn around and dump Grumpy all over again, however if she acts like 98% of my clients, she will expect the guy she betrayed with her ex, to be waiting for her with candy and flowers. Had one complain bitterly that the great boyfriend she got after her and hubby separated could not wait around after she dithered. When she finally jettisoned the XH, boyfriend was nowhere to be found. He was engaged to another. He said that there are prices to be paid when you cannot make up your mind. People cannot wait around and put their lives on hold because decision making ability is impaired.


----------



## VladDracul

Blondilocks said:


> while she played grief-stricken wife with ex.


You've got this chick's number Blondie. I was going to recommend our man Arthur talk to five men and five women about their thoughts on his now former squeeze acting like it was her own mother who kicked the bucket. Women see through this sort of crap.


----------



## VladDracul

ArthurGPym said:


> I think that last night we spent together she was sullen because she knew it might be the last time she saw me. She was on the cusp of making a decisions between me and her ex. So that is the reason for the desperate lovemaking. I think she wanted to feel connected to me one last time before pulling the plug. Gosh I feel so honored.


Look on the bright side my man. It would cost many men a hefty sum for a grade A U.S. prime chick to spend the night putting monkey sex on them like you're talking about. You got it on the cheap. Don't be so quick to write off the value of the shellacking she put on you, not only as the grand finale, but during the entire time you two were dating. You may be the only one who knows why her ex old man wants her back.


----------



## ArthurGPym

VladDracul said:


> Look on the bright side my man. It would cost many men a hefty sum for a grade A U.S. prime chick to spend the night putting monkey sex on them like you're talking about. You got it on the cheap. Don't be so quick to write off the value of the shellacking she put on you, not only as the grand finale, but during the entire time you two were dating. You may be the only one who knows why her ex old man wants her back.


Hmm. Never looked at it that way. Not sure if I want to look at it that way, but thanks... I guess.


----------



## Andy1001

@ArthurGPym do you like soccer? 
Madrid has two of the worlds best teams and if you get a chance you should go and see them play.
Madrid also has some of the most beautiful women in the world .......


----------



## ArthurGPym

Andy1001 said:


> @ArthurGPym do you like soccer?
> Madrid has two of the worlds best teams and if you get a chance you should go and see them play.
> Madrid also has some of the most beautiful women in the world .......


Soccer? No. Beautiful women ? Yes. Actually, as part of my course I have to attend a couple of dance classes at a local dance academy. All flamenco guitarists generally start off their careers by playing for dancers and putting in long hours at dance schools. I will be mainly observing my teacher and the more advanced players, but I know for sure there will be some beautiful young women to watch and admire. However, I am not a lecherous old man, and I won't be trying for any dates. LOL!


----------



## VladDracul

Arthur, just trying to make you feel better Dawg. My suggestion is to view it like a stock trade. You wanted a long term investment that paid dividends well into the future, you set your stops when the saw divergents in key indicators, you got stopped out, but you got paid a good return while you held it. You made a profitable trade my man. Most important, you didn't end up as one of the two stooges she may want to keep on the line.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Good analogy Vlad. Either way Im feeling a lot better and looking forward to getting out of here and hoping the change in scenery will help take my mind off all this crap.


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## ArthurGPym

Well I got everything arranged. My house sitter comes tomorrow and Ive already finished packing. Guitars are in their shipping cases and I took my Covid test yesterday afternoon. Came back clean of course.


----------



## Evinrude58

If you don’t have at least a couple of drinks with a beautiful Spanish lady, I’ll be disappointed for you.😊
Gotta be playing that guitar for somebody.
Don’t forget the post card. 😂


----------



## Asterix

ArthurGPym said:


> During normal circumstances I would have done this. This situation was anything but normal. And for what it is worth, I did tell her how I was feeling in a non-irritable way. The only social faux pas I made was not saying goodnight to her properly the night of the funeral. However, it would not have changed anything if I had. She had already made up her mind you see. She knew I was was pissed, and she knew why, but she threw it back on me and made me out to be the bad guy that night. I should have never given her that ammo. I ee that now and I see how she manipulated the situation to make herself look like the poor put-upon girlfriend.


I think the social faux pas was the right choice to make. This was a case of "heads I win and tails you loose" as in it was a lose - lose situation for you. 

If you had told her that you were leaving, she would have urged you to stay. If you have stayed then you would have felt like a chump for waiting around for her while she was ignoring you completely and if you had left without telling her then you would have looked like a jerk. 

I'd take looking like a jerk over looking like a chump any day.


----------



## Evinrude58

The holding hands with the ex was a dead giveaway. Supporting an ex with a death is one thing. Physical touch is another. Lots of people will say otherwise. She was just being supportive, it meant nothing, blah, blah. No, holding hands is intimacy. It’s the first thing that usually happens on a date between romantic partners. 
I’m glad Arthur drew the correct conclusion and followed his instincts to get out of a relationship with this woman who had zero loyalty for him. He called it accurately on his first post, didn’t act like a chump, and took decisive action. Most people wallow in self pity like I did, are indecisive, and stay longer and are in severe pain longer. Arthur is making all the right moves in spite of the pain he feels.
That is what a strong person does, and people like that will always find something better than a woman who tried to keep him On the hook while she cheated with her ex.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> If you don’t have at least a couple of drinks with a beautiful Spanish lady, I’ll be disappointed for you.😊
> Gotta be playing that guitar for somebody.
> Don’t forget the post card. 😂


I wish I could say it was sexy, but guitar players in Spain are a dime a dozen. They are everywhere. I get way more gals chatting me up in the States for my playing. Being an American is what would attract a Spanish lady to me more than anything. But yes, I do plan to schmooze at least one for you Evinrude!


----------



## ArthurGPym

Question: I bought a bunch of new clothes and shoes for my trip. Nice stuff. I got rid of the clothes Sarah bought me, except for my watch. It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I? I mean, I don't care if she keeps the jewelry I bought her, but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


----------



## ccpowerslave

ArthurGPym said:


> Question: I bought a bunch of new clothes and shoes for my trip. Nice stuff. I got rid of the clothes Sarah bought me, except for my watch. It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I? I mean, I don't care if she keeps the jewelry I bought her, but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


IMO you should never get rid of an Omega Speedmaster if it is a moon watch (no display case back). If it’s a sapphire sandwich then yeah go for it.

A timeless classic that never goes out of style.


----------



## VladDracul

ArthurGPym said:


> but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


Come on my man, you've know you have a little gigolo in your blood; in my case a lot, or so it used to be. Look at it as her expression of gratitude for delivering excellent service.


----------



## Theborg

If it wasn't meant to be an engagement gift, you should keep it. 
Not to mention that every contact you have with her makes it harder for you to move on.
Spain is a wonderful place, try to visit a few of the coastal towns if you can. Enjoy!


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> Question: I bought a bunch of new clothes and shoes for my trip. Nice stuff. I got rid of the clothes Sarah bought me, except for my watch. It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I? I mean, I don't care if she keeps the jewelry I bought her, but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


Hmmm
I was thinking this was a one sided relationship, but it sounds like she was pretty giving as well. 

there’s no requirement to return a gift, and it is actually hurtful sometimes. I would keep it unless asked.


----------



## AKA Broken Arrow

I’ll give you $100 for the speedy…

Have a great trip! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ArthurGPym

VladDracul said:


> Come on my man, you've know you have a little gigolo in your blood; in my case a lot, or so it used to be. Look at it as her expression of gratitude for delivering excellent service.


You absolutely freakin' kill me.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> Hmmm
> I was thinking this was a one sided relationship, but it sounds like she was pretty giving as well.
> 
> there’s no requirement to return a gift, and it is actually hurtful sometimes. I would keep it unless asked.


True. The sex was out of site and she was a fantastic girlfriend. Honestly, there was never a negative word between us the entire time. That is what makes it hurt more. One of us was obviously faking it, and it wasn't me. I guess I will keep the watch but I won't wear it too often. It reminds me of when she gave it to me: a very special trip we took together. 

"All those memories will be lost... like tears in rain."


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## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> True. The sex was out of site and she was a fantastic girlfriend. Honestly, there was never a negative word between us the entire time. That is what makes it hurt more. One of us was obviously faking it, and it wasn't me. I guess I will keep the watch but I won't wear it too often. It reminds me of when she gave it to me: a very special trip we took together.
> 
> "All those memories will be lost... like tears in rain."


I understand totally how you feel. I have a place I’d like to go fishing at, but can’t because f the memories of a person I once took there. Kinda ruined it for me.

You might consider calling the woman and getting some closure and asking if she wants it back. If she apologizes for what she did and tells you she wants you to have it, you might be able to enjoy the good memories and for the bad. I couldn’t, but you might be a stronger person than me. 
But calling he and talking would surely be a great danger of her gaslighting you and trying to get you back, or you getting hurt from rehashing the painful memories. 
Also, she may have had strong feelings for you and it wasn’t fake. Some people are just messed up and you never know what the hell they’re really thinking or when they’re gonna be headed one direction and suddenly shoot the other way. I’ve seen horses like that.


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## ArthurGPym

I don't think I will call her. I just don't see anything good coming from a conversation with her. I'll keep the watch. Maybe I'll sell it on EBay and use the money to buy a new guitar?


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## Gabriel

ArthurGPym said:


> The only drawback to going to Spain right now is that it is hot. Definitely not peak season for travel. September will be perfect for you.
> 
> I already checked with my travel agent and l have to submit a document stating that I passed a Covid test within 72 hours prior to arriving at the airport in Spain. You won't get through customs without showing it to them. So plan on taking the test three days prior to your flight.


Even if vaccinated? I thought you just needed a form.


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## ArthurGPym

I went ahead and got tested anyways.


----------



## ShatteredKat

I think you should dispose of everything related to your now dead relationship. for your own sanity - you don't need reminders of pain suffered


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## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> Question: I bought a bunch of new clothes and shoes for my trip. Nice stuff. I got rid of the clothes Sarah bought me, except for my watch. It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I? I mean, I don't care if she keeps the jewelry I bought her, but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


Auction it off for charity. Then let her know it went to a good cause.


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## paboy

You could give the watch to one of her sons..


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## ccpowerslave

paboy said:


> You could give the watch to one of her sons..


A good idea. Remember my earlier Speedy rule! This makes me want to get mine out of the safe.


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## Rus47

I always wonder if instead of filing for D the BS just drops out of sight? What if OP just stays in Spain and starts anew in new country, culture. Leaves his past life?


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## ArthurGPym

No I'm keeping the watch. I'm just going to wear it for dress occasions and wear my Apple watch the rest of the time. Anyways, I wanted to thank all of you for your help and support. I'm going to not not be posting as much from today, since there is really nothing to post about. This is a relationship site not a travel website. So take care everyone. I'll update later on.


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## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I?


for passing time I get to spend it with gorgeous women. To know the time nothing but my Omega Seamaster would do. You ditched the woman, you keep the Seamaster. No brainer.


----------



## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> No I'm keeping the watch. I'm just going to wear it for dress occasions and wear my Apple watch the rest of the time. Anyways, I wanted to thank all of you for your help and support. I'm going to not not be posting as much from today, since there is really nothing to post about. This is a relationship site not a travel website. So take care everyone. I'll update later on.


General relationship section would be a great place to keep in touch.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> Question: I bought a bunch of new clothes and shoes for my trip. Nice stuff. I got rid of the clothes Sarah bought me, except for my watch. It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I? I mean, I don't care if she keeps the jewelry I bought her, but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


Meh. I’d say you’ll get more comfortable over time. 😀


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## TDSC60

You made the correct decision about the watch. If she has not mentioned returning all gifts between the two of you, let it drop. If you are not comfortable keeping the watch, sell it and buy something you like. Any interaction with her is bound to end bad at this point.


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## Taxman

ArthurGPym said:


> Question: I bought a bunch of new clothes and shoes for my trip. Nice stuff. I got rid of the clothes Sarah bought me, except for my watch. It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I? I mean, I don't care if she keeps the jewelry I bought her, but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


Arthur
OK, so I am a collector. I have two vintage Omega Speedmasters, (one circa 1955, one 1967) and two Movados from the sixties and my everyday Movado. Not to mention various and sundry lesser brands. First, don't send it back, consider it spoils of battle. I NEVER let my clients trade jewellery back and forth, not even high end pieces. Watches of this nature do NOT depreciate. (sorry, I am an accountant) If you like it, trade it for a similar, newer Movado or step up to a Rolex.

You should post some videos of your playing. (Newbie guitarist, watching everyone play now, I suck, but I will get better)


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## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> Question: I bought a bunch of new clothes and shoes for my trip. Nice stuff. I got rid of the clothes Sarah bought me, except for my watch. It is an Omega Speedmaster. It's a gorgeous watch and it cost her close to three and a half grand. I should mail it back to her shouldn't I? I mean, I don't care if she keeps the jewelry I bought her, but I don't feel comfortable keeping this thing


Gifts are just that — gifts.

Giving a gift is like holding a door open for someone — it is (or should be) done with no expectation of reimbursement, recompense, or reciprocation… or even gratitude.

If you’re uncomfortable with keeping the watch, sell it and give the cash to charity. Or maybe buy a new guitar and amp. Or Hell, use it to extend your stay with the señoras in España.


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## ArthurGPym




----------



## TDSC60

Spain?????


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## ArthurGPym

TDSC60 said:


> Spain?????


Yes. This is the view from the doorway of my VRBO. Beautiful village with artesian fountains. The people here are fantastic, but it has been hotter than hell. 

I just got done with my classes for the day and am getting ready to go to get some dinner with some new friends I made. It is about 10:30 p.m. here. 

Anyway I said I wouldn't post unless I had an update: I got a text from my house sitter that something very interesting happened last night. A woman came by my house around 8:00 p.m. last night and asked if I was home. My house sitter told her I was gone and would be for a month. She asked him where I had gone and he of course told her he could not tell her. He asked her if she needed anything and she said no and just left without saying anything else. He said the blood drained out of her face when he told her I was gone. I asked him if she fit the description of Sarah that I had given him before I left and he confirmed it was probably her. He says she looked like hell, like she had been crying. 

I saw some more texts from her today but I didn't read them. Just flushed them. It's funny she looks like hell, because I'm going to be sitting at a table full of beautiful gitanas tonight and I am sure they will provide a much needed distraction.


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## nekonamida

Oh wow. Don't tell me the ex turned out to still be a jerk and now she regrets her decision. Who could've guessed other than you, her friends, and her family!

Glad to see your vacation is going well. I doubt you will be missing her in the slightest.


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## Evinrude58

Poor muffin isn’t happy with her ex? Wants her attention/security source back? Awwwww
You need to send word that you’re ready to fall back in your place of ? Well, it reAkky sure now, but whatever place she needs you in.
Damn. Why didn’t you tell the house sitter to tell her you were in Spain (after getting the camera reAdy of course).

“It was all a stupid mistake”. “ I was going through a lot of pain with my MIL dying, I didn’t know what I was doing! We never had sex! My son is lying, I wasn’t all over him at the party! Woe is me. I’m so............sorry (I got caught)!!!!!!!!!


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## Openminded

Didn’t take her long to rethink. Totally predictable. She’ll keep trying.

Glad to hear you’re enjoying Spain.


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## jsmart

Going to Spain for a month is such a fantastic idea. Live it up. By the time you come back, you will be thinking “Sarah who?”


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## Rus47

jsmart said:


> Going to Spain for a month is such a fantastic idea. Live it up. By the time you come back, you will be thinking “Sarah who?”


Why come back? Live there until it gets old.


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## ABHale

I thought this would happen, just not so soon.


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Well, there are those here who think I should have reacted in the way a husband would. Well, I wasn't her husband. I was a boyfriend -- a very serious boyfriend and we were in what I thought was a serious relationship -- so in reality I did not have the obligation to act the way a husband would act. Husbands have to be more subtle and play the long game, more so than a boyfriend has to, because they are looking at losing half of everything they have. The stakes are higher so the way a husband handles situations like this has to be a lot different.


Nothing worse than seeing a doormat husband getting walked on.
It was a shock to you upfront but you recovered quickly and handled it fine.


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## Marc878

Quick question. I have an old Timex an old girlfriend gave me. I’m wondering if I should give that back?

It doesn’t run and half the band fell off but…..


----------



## LATERILUS79

LoL. Keep on, keepin' on, Arthur. Glad to see you are having a good time. 

You are a better man than I. I definitely would have had my buddy back home tell her "He's gone for a month in Spain. You know, living the good life. Learning some sweet new style with guitars (I know nothing about guitars), and probably getting laid left and right. Oh, who are you again? I'll let him know you stopped by."

I know the proper TAM way to go is no vengeance and what not. That's cool. I'm sure its the better way to go. Me? I've always enjoyed being the one behind the wheel of the karma bus.


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## ArthurGPym

I didn't expect her to come back so soon either. I'm so glad I wasn't there because I could have been weak. But I have stayed radio silent. Anyways, I find that each day passes I feel much better. My class is very demanding and I have discovered that I was nowhere near as far along as I thought I was as a player. There are teenagers here who play circles around me. I have a lot of bad habits that I developed due to not getting properly instructed and my teacher gets frustrated with me. But I'm mucking through it. This has really kept my mind focused off my personal problems and off Sarah. The country is scenic (looks just like inland California), food is awesome and the women are fiercely beautiful.


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## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> I didn't expect her to come back so soon either. I'm so glad I wasn't there because I could have been weak. But I have stayed radio silent. Anyways, I find that each day passes I feel much better. My class is very demanding and I have discovered that I was nowhere near as far along as I thought I was as a player. There are teenagers here who play circles around me. I have a lot of bad habits that I developed due to not getting properly instructed and my teacher gets frustrated with me. But I'm mucking through it. This has really kept my mind focused off my personal problems and off Sarah. The country is scenic (looks just like inland California), food is awesome and the women are fiercely beautiful.


Sir, you are an inspiration. It’s no easy feat to go from having your heart crushed to getting back up and challenging yourself to be better. It would be hard for me not quit and allow the bad thoughts to enter my mind again. It’s awesome that you keep forging forward. You’ll be better for it.


----------



## Evinrude58

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sir, you are an inspiration. It’s no easy feat to go from having your heart crushed to getting back up and challenging yourself to be better. It would be hard for me not quit and allow the bad thoughts to enter my mind again. It’s awesome that you keep forging forward. You’ll be better for it.


I agree. This heart stuff is rough. Every man should be as strong as this guy.... we aren’t.


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## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> I agree. This heart stuff is rough. Every man should be as strong as this guy.... we aren’t.


Not at all. I had a rough nightmare three or four nights ago (too much paella) and I dreamt of Sarah. I woke up crying. There are moments when I drop into deep sorrow and the pain is almost unbearable. I love her and hate her at the same time and all I wish is to stop thinking about her. Last night after dinner I was on a high. I had a great time just being with people and having good conversation. And yet even with people all around me, I felt lonely, because the woman I love wasn't there. When I got back to my house, I slumped back into my funk again. I was thinking how much Sarah would love it here. See, I have to train myself to stop thinking those thoughts. Conquering my mind has been the hardest thing to do. I am far from strong. It is going to take a long, long time to get myself right.


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> Not at all. I had a rough nightmare three or four nights ago (too much paella) and I dreamt of Sarah. I woke up crying. There are moments when I drop into deep sorrow and the pain is almost unbearable. I love her and hate her at the same time and all I wish is to stop thinking about her. Last night after dinner I was on a high. I had a great time just being with people and having good conversation. And yet even with people all around me, I felt lonely, because the woman I love wasn't there. When I got back to my house, I slumped back into my funk again. I was thinking how much Sarah would love it here. See, I have to train myself to stop thinking those thoughts. Conquering my mind has been the hardest thing to do. I am far from strong. It is going to take a long, long time to get myself right.


Dude, you are still functioning. You’re able to taste food. Hear music.

when my ex wife told me she wanted a divorce (I didn’t know she was a cheating Skank until two months later), music had no tone, food lost its taste (I lost 30lbs in two months), I couldn’t really function. Embarrassingly, I had panic attacks sad so bad I wanted to fled my work.

you are doing great. This betrayal thing—- it’s hard to bear.


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## LATERILUS79

Arthur, no one here would expect you to have great days every day. I would expect most of your days right now to still be bad.

but damn man, you are a FIGHTER. If I was in your position, the last thing I would want to deal with is more adversity. I get where your mind is. You go to your guitar classes. You think you are prepared to learn this new technique. You aren’t. Your teacher is frustrated with you. The bad thoughts start to creep in. Sarah already shat on your confidence and now you have a new situation doing the same.
I’ve given up too many times in the face of this kind of adversity. You are slogging through it like a f*cking warrior.
Keep doing what you are doing. Let the bad days come. Keep meeting them head on like you have been. I think you will succeed. I think you will accomplish what you set out to do in Spain.


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## re16

Wow, it is very apparent how much you liked her. Awful of her to gut you like she did. Stay strong and enjoy the moment when you can.

Don't let what you can't control effect the here and now.

You might need to bust into some Pink Floyd next time the instructor gets on you, I guarantee you know some American tricks that the old Spaniard doesn't.... just got to level the playing field.


----------



## jsmart

Yes, you’re still missing her. We all get it. You had some great times and it will take some time to get her out of your system. But keep reminding yourself that the woman you’re missing is not who she really was. When the chips were down, you got to see the real her. 

We get a lot of betrayed spouses who passively wallow in despair but on short notice you freaking jumped on a plane to a beautiful foreign country. To me that is pretty bad @ss. For now you will have to muscle through and fake it until you make it. So continue to play music, dance, drink, enjoy great food because in a short time you’ll find that you’re no longer faking it and are actually having a great time. I have a feeling that before the month is through you will find a Spanish babe to enjoy your time with.


----------



## sideways

Just allow yourself to grieve OP. 

You'll get through this. In the meantime try to stay in the moment and soak up every bit of your trip.


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## Marc878

Just remember. You witnessed a part of who she is. At her age that won’t charge. The capability is for her to do this again. Sorry


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## Marc878

You could block her. No contact is your best path. Hopium will keep you in limbo or get you a repeat.


----------



## fluffycoco

ArthurGPym said:


> Not at all. I had a rough nightmare three or four nights ago (too much paella) and I dreamt of Sarah. I woke up crying. There are moments when I drop into deep sorrow and the pain is almost unbearable. I love her and hate her at the same time and all I wish is to stop thinking about her. Last night after dinner I was on a high. I had a great time just being with people and having good conversation. And yet even with people all around me, I felt lonely, because the woman I love wasn't there. When I got back to my house, I slumped back into my funk again. I was thinking how much Sarah would love it here. See, I have to train myself to stop thinking those thoughts. Conquering my mind has been the hardest thing to do. I am far from strong. It is going to take a long, long time to get myself right.


I feel your pain OP, but you did the right thing by going away, enjoy your traveling . to find a local gym working out daily it helps lot


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## TDSC60

I don't have a magic wand that can be waved to make you all better. Just know that what you are going through is normal, it sucks, but it is normal. You were blindsided and betrayed.

Just remember that she dumped you by going back to her EX and basically lied about what she was doing. Love her or not, the trust is gone and is not coming back. Forget about what she likes or wants, or would enjoy. That no longer matters. Accept the woman she has become with her betrayal of you.

Just know that it gets better with distance and time.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> I didn't expect her to come back so soon either. I'm so glad I wasn't there because I could have been weak. But I have stayed radio silent. Anyways, I find that each day passes I feel much better. My class is very demanding and I have discovered that I was nowhere near as far along as I thought I was as a player. There are teenagers here who play circles around me. I have a lot of bad habits that I developed due to not getting properly instructed and my teacher gets frustrated with me. But I'm mucking through it. This has really kept my mind focused off my personal problems and off Sarah. The country is scenic (looks just like inland California), food is awesome and the women are fiercely beautiful.


Her X probably rejected her and she’s looking for a soft spot to land. 

It’s like a dog likes you if you feed them.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Should have left word with house sitter that you are in Europe looking at houses, thinking about moving to Europe. Postpone your return by week so if she returns they can tell her " He liked it soo much in (insert European country) i think he had decided to stay for the rest of the summer and is looking at homes for sale over there.


----------



## Kaliber

Divinely Favored said:


> Should have left word with house sitter that you are in Europe looking at houses, thinking about moving to Europe. Postpone your return by week so if she returns they can tell her " He liked it soo much in (insert European country) i think he had decided to stay for the rest of the summer and is looking at homes for sale over there.


Or better!
Should have left word with house sitter that you are in Europe with your new GF!


----------



## joannacroc

I'm sorry OP for what she put you through. Sounds like you're doing as well as can be expected for someone who has just encountered heartbreak. You ARE the boss. You just also have feelings and are human. Neither of those things are bad. You just picked the wrong person that's all. Here's hoping you find some peace in your guitar odyssey! Enjoy that beautiful town and the company of your new friends and those fiercely beautiful women and don't beat yourself up for being human. It is that very vulnerability and ability to perservere that will allow you to have a better relationship in the future when you find the right woman. Courage!


----------



## ArthurGPym

Thank you all for your kindness. I am at a Moroccan cafe in the Carabanchel tonight. It's a little after 11:00 p.m. and I am recuperating from a day of walking and shopping. Letting my hands heal. I literally have been playing ten hours a day for the past week. My callouses have callouses.

Yesterday I had the first panic attack of my life. I was at a dance studio playing with some fellow students while the teen dance classes were underway. The dance teacher was a little redheaded Spanish woman and she and I were laughing and talking between dance classes. Not really flirting, just friendly banter. She is a beautiful married middle aged woman, small and curvaceous (just like Sarah) and all of a sudden I felt my chest tightening up. She saw I was looking pale and she told me to go and sit in an adjoining room. I went in and sat in a big comfy chair and all of a sudden I felt that flush of cold water and zonk! Out cold. I had slid off the chair and landed on the floor in a heap. I woke up with paramedics looking down at me and an oxygen mask on my face. I felt like I had gotten drugged with mushrooms or something. They were taking my pulse and talking Castilian at me a hundred miles an hour. I was groggy as hell and scared. By the time my Spanish brain kicked in I was able to deduce from the medic that I had had a panic attack. My heart is good and they couldn't find anything else wrong with me. So Maritza, the teacher, sent me home and I took the rest of the night off and just stayed put. I cried and cried and cried. Ugly crying. This crap with Sarah has done a number on me. Damn I hate feeling weak like this. 

Has anyone gone through this? This didn't happen to me the first time when my ex-wife cheated.


----------



## Evinrude58

I never passed out but had a few panic attacks after my slutty ex wanted a divorce.
I was ashamed and felt like a wuss. It is what it is. Just keep moving forward. Hurting isn’t fun.


----------



## sideways

Ah man, AP, so sorry this BS is weighing heavily on you. 

Obviously you were extremely fond of Sarah, possibly in love with her?

Despite your head telling you to move along (that it's the right thing to do) your heart hasn't caught up (which is normally what happens).

Some people can turn their feelings on and off like a light switch. Others it takes time. Don't beat yourself up AP. As I said earlier, allow yourself to grieve the loss of Sarah, and do it on your own time frame and own way.

Be a good friend to yourself right now. Enjoy your time in Spain and try not to think about lays ahead of you.

Hang in there AP!!


----------



## LATERILUS79

What you are going through doesn’t make you weak and doesn’t make you less of a man. You’re still moving through your post-sarah life like a boss - but that doesn’t mean you aren’t human.

people that treat other people like trash never take one second to think about the horrific mental pain they put others through. They never stop to think about the way mental anguish can manifest into physical pain.

it isn’t easy in any setting to overcome mental hurt quickly and efficiently. You can tell yourself that sarah is a garbage human being until you are blue in the face. Logically, she shouldn’t matter, and yet, she still does emotionally.


so you have a night and release your emotions. You have a health scare and thankfully were in good company so that you could get treatment immediately.

no one here will ever fault you for that. This is hard work I wouldn’t wish on any soul. I imagine you will have more nights where you need to release more emotions. It happens. There is no shame in this.

come here. Speak your mind. Get up and dust yourself off. Try again tomorrow. Hold onto that silver lining that’s going on right now. Your callouses have grown callouses. Soooo maybe soon your fingers will stop hurting? 😂

you are putting in some serious effort 10 hours a day. Rock on, Arthur. That’s amazing!

these are accomplishments. Use them as your base. Keep building. Choke out the negative with the constant positive you are doing right now.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Too make it plain, yes I was (am) in love with Sarah. The mistake I made was assuming she felt the same. She would tell me she loved me so I believed her.


----------



## fluffycoco

You are totally spent, mentally and physically. you need relax more, Arthur


----------



## Openminded

ArthurGPym said:


> Too make it plain, yes I was (am) in love with Sarah. The mistake I made was assuming she felt the same. She would tell me she loved me so I believed her.


She’s going to tell you that she still does love you and that she just got distracted for a minute by her ex because of grief but that you’re what she really wants. You can choose to believe what she says or not but be prepared so that you aren’t caught off guard when she does.


----------



## TDSC60

Your love for Sarah was/is real. For some who have been cheated on in a relationship, the betrayal is like flipping a switch and the love is gone immediately, replaced with anger. For others the love is still there but it is alternated with hate. As you move forward you will think of her less and less often and the feelings you are going through will become less intense.

It will take time and distance to get over what she did to you. Eventually it will happen. 

I think what you love is the woman you though she was. Sadly, that woman never really existed. What you are feeling is nostalgia for what you thought you had with her.

And yes, strong conflicting emotions can cause panic attacks.


----------



## sideways

That's why people date. As time goes along, and you like what you're seeing and feeling, you let the walls come down. By doing so we expose ourselves and become vulnerable, however in order to experience the fruit of life (in this case the biggest blessing of all....love) we have to be willing to crawl out on to the branch to pick the fruit.

Guess what. There's always the possibility that the branch could brake and things come crashing down and we get hurt.

Some people because of their past painful experience(s) are unwilling to take a chance and climb back up the tree and crawl back out on to the branch for an opportunity to taste the fruit.

So what do they do? They get to the tree, look up and see the fruit, but their fear keeps them right there. They basically wind up becoming a tree hugger. Yes by doing so they don't get hurt anymore but they also don't really live and get to experience/taste the fruit God wants us to have.

Don't let your experience with Sarah make you a tree hugger moving forward. You felt Sarah was feeling what you were feeling, so much so you trusted her, you looked her in the eyes and said to her, "I'm going to crawl out on to the branch and get us some of this fruit" and while you were out on the branch, she cut the branch letting you fall and in doing so crushing your heart and while you're lying there looking up into the tree all you can think of is "why"??

I don't think you're ever going to get the closure you think you need from her. Again back to why we date. So we can see how people are in different situations and trials of life. 

I know you were blindsided by her actions but unfortunately it's who she is. She did NOT value your heart the way that you did hers. It's extremely painful to come to this realization as you very well know.

So in the meantime you're left bottling all of this up. Maybe when you get back it might behoove you to say what you have to say to Sarah (whether it be face to face or in a letter).

What I mean, is she hears your truth, that you value yourself too much to be cast aside like she did with you, and you're Glad that you found out now than further down the line. 

Many might disagree with this but I always think about what does Jesus say to do in a situation like this? He says to go to that person and speak your truth. What they did to you. The person is either going to acknowledge it or not but in this case you're not doing it to potentially get back with Sarah. Nope. You're doing it for yourself so that you're releasing some of what you're bottling up and not just ghosting her.

It's just a thought. You do what you feel like in your heart you need to do. You may even write her a letter, saying what you want to say, but never sending it to her. Maybe you burn it.

I'm just kind of picking up that you're NOT a ghosting type of person. Maybe I'm wrong. There's nothing wrong in you saying whatever it is you want to say to her. It doesn't have to be a dialog with her but just you saying what you want to say because nothing she says is really going to explain why (and how) she did what she did to you. 

Maybe you get a heartfelt apology?
Would it help either way?
Again saying what you want to say with no expectations from her. Just speaking your truth.

Just something to think about.

In the meantime take care of yourself and continue to keep us posted.


----------



## Evinrude58

Arthur, 
I disagree with the not ghosting her comment.
Two factors:
1). You will leave the conversation in tears of you call her. You will have more panic attacks because your feelings for her and knowing she doesn’t love you back will tear you up. She’s going to lie and manipulate you into coming back to her if you talk to her. Don’t.
Remember that she basically flirted with her ex right in front of you at the funeral and wanted you to stay and endure it!!!! Then she told you that you couldn’t come to her party because she planned to jump her ex’s bones at it, which she DID. Her own son was appalled.

The only reason she came by your house dragging her tail is because her ex dumped her and she wanted your emotional support and ego boost back. I think ghosting her is the most appropriate thing you could have done.
Two years and allowing you to think her feelings were solid and she repays you by jumping her ex? Nah, let this one stay gone.
You owe her nothing.


----------



## Kaliber

Evinrude58 said:


> Two years and allowing you to think her feelings were solid and she repays you by jumping her ex? Nah, let this one stay gone.
> You owe her nothing.


This 👆


----------



## Lostinthought61

There is no set formula for getting over someone, especially when one party is more invested in the relationship than is other, even when you think you are both on the same page, there is always one person who has a "get out of jail card" in their back pocket. In the case of Sarah, i suspect had MIL not died then i do not believe anything would have changed between Arthur and Sarah, but regardless i do believe that Sarah, was still not totally invested in the relationship with Arthur as he was....i believe that connection with the ex through the kids makes some individuals susceptible to change on a dime, leaving the partner in the cold and wounded....arthur is going the stages of grief, and right now he is at pain.


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## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> Too make it plain, yes I was (am) in love with Sarah. The mistake I made was assuming she felt the same. She would tell me she loved me so I believed her.


Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she really did (does) love you. Being in love doesn't stop you from doing stupid and hurtful things. 

The death of the MIL and being near her ex probably rekindled some kind of feelings. Remember, she was in love with him at some point too. Emotions make us do stupid **** far too often. 

Don't be ashamed of your feelings.


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## Marc878

Sorry man. No contact is still your best path. You break it you reset back to day one.
She is who she is. Like most you’re in love with the fantasy you created of her.
At some point your heart will catch up to your brain.


----------



## Marc878

BigDaddyNY said:


> Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she really did (does) love you. Being in love doesn't stop you from doing stupid and hurtful things.
> 
> The death of the MIL and being near her ex probably rekindled some kind of feelings. Remember, she was in love with him at some point too. Emotions make us do stupid **** far too often.
> 
> Don't be ashamed of your feelings.


Love is not enough. Respect, loyalty, being honest and trustworthy count too.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Thank you all. I think what I am going to do is stay dark for several months until I get my feet back under me emotionally. Once I am there I will send Sarah a letter spelling out all my feelings and emotions. I am one of those guys who needs closure. I do not like leaving loose ends, and to walk away and not give her a piece of my mind will be something I regret. It will not be an affectionate or heartfelt letter. I am going to state plainly what I think of her and her sh*tty actions. 

On a positive note, I performed a complete buleria this morning in front of my class: a song I have been every evening on for a week. My teacher actually complimented me and the cantaora (singer) who worked with me on it gave me a lot of encouragement and told me I was better than most first year students she has worked with, and to keep on it. So, I feel good today. So, now off to the manicurist to get my nails re-done. LOL!


----------



## LATERILUS79

Are you kidding me?!

this is the same Arthur just a week ago was frustrating his teacher? The same Arthur that couldn’t keep up?
Now he is getting compliments from the teacher and the singer?

Arthur, you are WINNING. Keep up the good work! This is how you bounce back. This is how you become content. This is how you find some peace.

I’m thankful you weren’t at your house when sarah stopped by. Looks like your trip to Spain was the perfect thing to do and at the perfect time. You aren’t in a position to be strong with her right now.

I also understand wanting closure, but closure for me is driving the karma bus. That’s just me though. What do you want to accomplish with your letter? Is it for you to get your emotions out? Are you looking to teach her something? I’m just curious.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Marc878 said:


> Love is not enough. Respect, loyalty, being honest and trustworthy count too.


I couldn't agree more. Love is just one part of the equation, which is why so many people hurt and betray those that they love.


----------



## LATERILUS79

BigDaddyNY said:


> I couldn't agree more. Love is just one part of the equation, which is why so many people hurt and betray those that they love.


Love is just the prerequisite to have a relationship at all. Essentially, it is the bare minimum feeling you need to want to try to have a relationship. So much more is required to fuel the relationship to last.


----------



## SRCSRC

Well said, Laterilus79


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> I also understand wanting closure, but closure for me is driving the karma bus. That’s just me though. What do you want to accomplish with your letter? Is it for you to get your emotions out? Are you looking to teach her something? I’m just curious.


No it's not wanting Karma. If Karma gets her, none of my business. No I'm going to write out the letter and sit on it for six months, then, if I still feel like sending it, I'm simply going to state the facts and show her in full detail my beef against her and what sh*tty person I think she has been towards me. How the f*ck do play-act for two f*cking years, acting like you give a sh*t about a guy, that you love this guy, and then in one fell swoop do a complete 180 and turn your back on him like he didn't even exist? What kind of f*cked up human being does that to another person? I want her to ponder that question for the rest of her life. It is not an attempt to get back with her. I want her to experience pain and regret and ask herself that question every time she remembers me. 

Do you guys get where I'm coming from?


----------



## colingrant

> I am one of those guys who needs closure. I do not like leaving loose ends, and to walk away and not give her a piece of my mind will be something I regret


. 
I'm making no attempt to dissuade you from seeking closure. However, just know that walking away without dignifying or acknowledging closure of the relationship speaks louder and more meaningful than words given. Plus the lack of closure I'm sure she's seeking is lost for her. Conversely, even if you give her a "piece of your mind" she will gain the closure she seeks, hence less troubled by how things ended. Giving her a piece of your mind also confirms for her that she had a piece of your heart and that will be somewhat satisfying for her even if she broke it. 


> I was (am) in love with Sarah. The mistake I made was assuming she felt the same. She would tell me she loved me so I believed her.


It's possible she did love you or was on her way but the problem was she had unresolved feelings and love for another man and you were a collateralized casualty. As they say in the military, some missions come with risk and unintentional harm is inevitable. When WS say, "I didn't mean to hurt you", what they're really saying is I was hoping to not hurt you, but realized a decent to good chance existed that I would. 

My main point here is loving someone is rarely a mistake. It's how they respond to not being love, respected and honored is where mistakes are made. When one is being mistreated, disrespected and dishonored and can't part with someone who's emotionally unhealthy for them. 

One observation I've made is BS are often as fantasy driven and illumined as WS are. You may be driven by this. I don't know. The WS is love addicted to past lovers, boyfriends and various POS's of the world. The difference between the BS is often caught up in a similar struggle and can't untangle the web that has captured them. The difference between the two is ethical behaviors vs unethical ones, but the emotional trap that captivates both are very similar.


----------



## ccpowerslave

LATERILUS79 said:


> Love is just the prerequisite to have a relationship at all. Essentially, it is the bare minimum feeling you need to want to try to have a relationship. So much more is required to fuel the relationship to last.


What’s love, but a second hand emotion?


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> No it's not wanting Karma. If Karma gets her, none of my business. No I'm going to write out the letter and sit on it for six months, then, if I still feel like sending it, I'm simply going to state the facts and show her in full detail my beef against her and what sh*tty person I think she has been towards me. How the f*ck do play-act for two f*cking years, acting like you give a sh*t about a guy, that you love this guy, and then in one fell swoop do a complete 180 and turn your back on him like he didn't even exist? What kind of f*cked up human being does that to another person? I want her to ponder that question for the rest of her life. It is not an attempt to get back with her. I want her to experience pain and regret and ask herself that question every time she remembers me.
> 
> Do you guys get where I'm coming from?


I ABSOLUTELY know what you are talking about.

here is my humble opinion on the matter:

she is stupid. She may be intelligent, but she is still f*cking stupid. She has no introspective ability. She can’t. She can’t allow herself to be introspective because that would mean she can no longer deny the painful truth she is avoiding:

that is she is in fact, NOT a good person.

she will not ponder the thought provoking questions you’ve listed. Only good people can do that. Only people that want to be better people can do that. She can’t.

her stupid mind will flip your questions and tell
Herself this “Arthur is being soooo mean to me asking me these questions!!! Good thing I got rid of him! He’s hurt me soooo much!”

I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but you are phrasing your questions as if you were speaking to someone on your level - a man with good values and integrity. A man that has empathy for those he passes by in his life. Sarah is not this person and will not be able to handle your questions.

again, this is all just my humble opinion. This is what it looks like to me.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ccpowerslave said:


> What’s love, but a second hand emotion?


I keep saying this over and over in my head.

I gather there is a deeper meaning here, but this old “black and white” “literal definition to everything” guy can’t put it together. 😂

I’m gonna need some extra assistance, Cc.


----------



## ccpowerslave

LATERILUS79 said:


> I’m gonna need some extra assistance, Cc.


Your post reminded me of the classic Tina Turner song


----------



## Evinrude58

Arthur,
I have good news! You can write up that letter. Do it in your most terrible Mood. Don’t hold back anything. 
make it as vile as you want.

Guess what? 2 years from now if you even think about that letter, you’ll look at it, give yourself a WTF look, and file 13 the damn thing. Because you will have moved on and you won’t even care what her thoughts are.

The pain won’t last forever. The most vindictive thing you could have done, you inadvertently did to her already: You ghosted her and left her with no chance to solve the cognitive dissonance problem she is facing of betraying you and her actually thinking to herself that she’s a decent person. She can’t argue with you, get you angry and get you to say something mean so she can somehow justify her actions and feel better about herself. She can’t sense your pain in your anger and know how much you cared for her and think “I must be pretty awesome for Arthur to be this hurt”.
All she has right now is: he dropped me like a bad habit. He went to Spain and didn’t even look back. Now she DOES have to wonder what she did to make a man who showed her love, suddenly put a literal ocean between you and her.

My vote is no note. Boot the coot, give the dope no hope. Stay in the dark, by keeping yourself in park. 

You have almost ingeniously put her in a situation where she is alone, having to dwell on the pain she caused you, with at least no hope of closure unless you give it to her.
It’s up to you, but any further contact with her will simply ease her conscience, and possibly put you in a position of falling under her spell again.
I suggest refusing to take a bite of that poisoned apple again and remain no contact.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Evinrude58 said:


> You ghosted her and left her with no chance to solve the cognitive dissonance problem she is facing of betraying you and her actually thinking to herself that she’s a decent person.


Bam.

That was Evinrude smacking Sarah upside the head with a TAMx4. This is what I was trying to say in my multi-paragraph post. I just didn't have all the slick words to make it nice and concise. This is EXACTLY what she wants to do. She is desperate to tell herself (truthfully) that she is a good person and just....... can't....... seem....... to do it. She'll need help (specifically from you) to close that loop for her. Don't give it to her. Don't let her close that loop.


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## ccpowerslave

Evinrude58 said:


> My vote is no note. Boot the coot, give the dope no hope. Stay in the dark, by keeping yourself in park.


Lol...


----------



## ArthurGPym

Well like I say, I'm going to write it while the thoughts are still in my head and just sit on it for six months, then reevaluate...


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## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> I want her to ponder that question for the rest of her life. It is not an attempt to get back with her. I want her to experience pain and regret and ask herself that question every time she remembers me.


Your anger it's making you delusional here. The most likely scenario is that she already had justified herself, and eventually when all the dust had settle down, won't even give it a second thought.



ArthurGPym said:


> Do you guys get where I'm coming from?


All I get is that you think that you will show her. Right...I don't think so. You can write a world of trues to her and again, the most likely scenario is that eventually she will just shrug it off...somehow. In the meantime your letter to her will be perceived as that of resentful, angry weak man that is out to punish her. Dude, don't write her anything. I doubt that the effect you're looking for will be the outcome. if what you really want out of her is punishment, then complete silence and ignoring her existence will get her more than any letter. That will just give her the satisfaction that at least you cared so much that you had to write a letter.


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## gr8ful1

ArthurGPym said:


> I do not like leaving loose ends, and to walk away and not give her a piece of my mind will be something I regret. It will not be an affectionate or heartfelt letter. I am going to state plainly what I think of her and her sh*tty actions.


At first, an emotional reaction to be sure, I thought YES! Do that! But now the logical brain has kicked in and I think the letter would sting her good *right now*, but in 6 months if she gets it, she‘ll toss it saying “what an asshole”. And you already know the better play is to ghost her now and let her stew in what she’s lost. I truly feel for ya - she seemed so great until the true Sarah slipped out and revealed herself


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## johndoe12299

Arthur I'm in the same boat. I want to give my WW a piece of my mind and let her know exactly what she's done to me, how she's made me feel, etc...but everyone here is right. It won't do any good. You can definitely write them as a coping measure; but i would not give it to her. Trust me, i know how you feel. You think she doesn't fully grasp how she's made you feel. I'm there with ya man. I didn't give her the reaction I felt that i should have when i confronted her about the cheating; you(me) feel like they probably think we aren't pissed or are "OK" with it. But, like others have mentioned, you keping your reaction in check will more than likely just make her wonder "why doesn't he have more of a reaction, he can move on that easily? etc"...


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## manowar

gr8ful1 said:


> ghost her now



Nothing gets under a woman's skin more than being ghosted. It's their favorite trick and one they have an innate understanding of it.



ArthurGPym said:


> she admitted she had fallen in love with me. Now? I'm not sure.


When those words were spoken she was. No question about it, because that's 'what she was feeling'. At that precise moment in time. But women tend to fluctuate up and down in these matters whereas us guys tend to be pretty steady or have a slow gradual decline. A woman's 'feelings' can fluctuate up and down with lots of volatility like the recent gold or oil markets. many guys are not aware of this.


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## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> No it's not wanting Karma. If Karma gets her, none of my business. No I'm going to write out the letter and sit on it for six months, then, if I still feel like sending it, I'm simply going to state the facts and show her in full detail my beef against her and what sh*tty person I think she has been towards me. How the f*ck do play-act for two f*cking years, acting like you give a sh*t about a guy, that you love this guy, and then in one fell swoop do a complete 180 and turn your back on him like he didn't even exist? What kind of f*cked up human being does that to another person? I want her to ponder that question for the rest of her life. It is not an attempt to get back with her. I want her to experience pain and regret and ask herself that question every time she remembers me.
> 
> Do you guys get where I'm coming from?


I agree completely on this. 

The only thing I would do differently is to send it now. Read through it a few times and send the letter. It might keep her from showing up at you home when you get back. 

I always think one needs to get it off their chest how the other person messed up the life they had. They need to hear about the pain they caused. It’s not weakness on your part. It is strength opening up to what that person did to you. Getting it out there can be very good for your health as well.


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## Evinrude58

Please don’t send her a letter. It’s proof in black and white that you’re not over her. Get over her. Don’t give her an ego boost by showing her you care. Send her a letter if you just can’t live without her and want her back. If so, I understand, although I think she’s a ticking bomb. But if you’re not wanting her back, just let her go. You will NEVER get the response you’re looking for, which is an apology and an explanation that will relieve your pain. You’ll just set the clock back on healing because a letter guarantees a response whether you claim to want it or not.


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## manowar

ArthurGPym said:


> He said the blood drained out of her face when he told her I was gone. I asked him if she fit the description of Sarah that I had given him before I left and he confirmed it was probably her. He says she looked like hell, like she had been crying.


She's having mind movies about all the fun your having and wondering with who.


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## ArthurGPym

I won't send a letter. I was in a bad place yesterday. Today I have the day off. There are no classes as my teacher is in Barcelona today. So I'm chilling at my little VRBO, caught up on my sleep. I'm not playing today. I may drive to Madrid and hang out tonight with one of my classmates who I have become good friends with.

I think I am mad more at myself than anything. I walked away from my music career with my ex wife because I thought I was doing the right thing. Then she cheated and I divorced her, but was never able to get back on track with my music, so it became a hobby while I made a living at a regular job. I have always resented myself for allowing a woman to steer me away from my passion. I should have never allowed that to happen. Same thing here with Sarah. I invested all that time and energy into the relationship only to get blindsided again. I was better off in the intervening years just having casual hookups and short flings. I won't make that mistake again. Some guys just don't have it in the cards for having long term relationships, and I'm one of them.


----------



## ccpowerslave

ArthurGPym said:


> Some guys just don't have it in the cards for having long term relationships, and I'm one of them.


Not so sure about that but doing what makes you happy is a good overall plan.


----------



## Lostinthought61

As joesph Campbell said “follow your bliss”


----------



## ArthurGPym




----------



## TDSC60

You are a "giver" while your past relationships were all "takers".

Please just put her out of your mind as much as possible. Fretting over "how she could do this" or "what kind of person does that" will not help you. And you will never get an explanation that is acceptable or logical to you. Her moral compass is not stable, your's is. Your minds work on different levels and paths, so stop wondering about "whys" and "hows".

I think it would be good to write down all your feelings and troubles in a letter. Keep for six months or longer and when you are feeling a little at peace with yourself....burn it! Don't think about sending it. She will not care and it will do you no good.


----------



## manowar

ArthurGPym said:


> I have always resented myself for allowing a woman to steer me away from my passion. I should have never allowed that to happen. Same thing here with Sarah. I invested all that time and energy into the relationship only to get blindsided again.



It's the social conditioning. Break It in the same way that Volcker broke the back of inflation in the early 1980s. You are aware of it. You know what and how to do it (I've seen enough of your posts). But your not there yet. It shows how powerful the conditioning is. Put yourself first but actually do it (if you can). There's a certain aloofness to it that sets you free. With the women your lukewarm on doesn't count. You must implement on one's you're white-hot on. It'll change your life.


----------



## skerzoid

I had a teaching friend that had a Spanish wife. They would go back to Spain on vacations. A Cousin also takes his family on vacations in Spain. They both have raved about the women! You need to "immerse" yourself, my man.


----------



## ArthurGPym

skerzoid said:


> I had a teaching friend that had a Spanish wife. They would go back to Spain on vacations. A Cousin also takes his family on vacations in Spain. They both have raved about the women! You need to "immerse" yourself, my man.


Yes the women here are very attractive. Problem is all the women I have met all dating wealthy Saudi or North African guys. LOL! And Spanish men are pretty too, so I (with my ruddy skin and greying hair) can't really compete. It is fun to look though.


----------



## ArthurGPym

On a positive note, I may get to go to Las Ventas this Sunday to watch bullfighting. Never seen it in person so it will be interesting.


----------



## re16

ArthurGPym said:


> I think I am mad more at myself than anything. I walked away from my music career with my ex wife because I thought I was doing the right thing. Then she cheated and I divorced her, but was never able to get back on track with my music, so it became a hobby while I made a living at a regular job. I have always resented myself for allowing a woman to steer me away from my passion. I should have never allowed that to happen. Same thing here with Sarah. I invested all that time and energy into the relationship only to get blindsided again. I was better off in the intervening years just having casual hookups and short flings. I won't make that mistake again.


This is good introspection. The old saying "No good deed goes unpunished" comes to mind. This is the crux of nice guy syndrome.

Some of us make sacrifices to appease a spouse or do the right thing, only to have it backfire. Hindsight is always 20/20 that we should have followed our dreams and interests, giving it up for someone else was always a mistake. A hard lesson that we all learn.


----------



## Evinrude58

Arthur, are you prepared for groveling and lbombing when you get back home?
Prepare for the tsunami of I’m sorry, can you forgive me, I wuv you, I don’t know what I was thinking, let’s have wild monkey sex, etc?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> Arthur, are you prepared for groveling and lbombing when you get back home?
> Prepare for the tsunami of I’m sorry, can you forgive me, I wuv you, I don’t know what I was thinking, let’s have wild monkey sex, etc?
> 
> View attachment 77489
> View attachment 77489


Yeah I worry about that. To tell you the truth I have no plan. I'm open to ideas.


----------



## Zedd

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah I worry about that. To tell you the truth I have no plan. I'm open to ideas.


"You deserve better than I'm willing to give you, given the events that unfolded. That situation will never change. Your desire to hang around is unfair to yourself, let alone me."


----------



## jsmart

I’m glad to see you’ve come around on writing that letter. Like other said, it would be a big ego boost for her and it would be very doubtful that you get the response your hoping for. By ghosting her , you did the most mind F’ing thing possible.

Also even though you are still going through withdrawal and are probably thinking she’s all but forgotten about you. But by ghosting her , she is rattled. She too is contemplating the past 2 years. How could he just forget me like that. She’s thinking you’re balls deep in a new woman in some foreign paradise. So like others have said, ghosting is by far the best response to being betrayed.

Please stop your self hating with your comments on your complexion. Work on being the best version of yourself. Build it and they will come, can apply to ourselves.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah I worry about that. To tell you the truth I have no plan. I'm open to ideas.


If she calls or texts "I love you", you can always send back the standard "I'm sorry you feel that way"


----------



## Evinrude58

Her: “can we talk”
You: *___*

Her: “I miss you”
You: ———————

Her: I’m so sorry.... will you please talk to me?
You: —————————

Any response to her is an opening. Any Dialogue with her is an opportunity for her to ask for forgiveness or offer explanation. To make you feel guilty for knowing the truth and refusing to chump up for her.

The way you deal with her is the old grey rock technique. No response. It’s hard. The hardest. It gets easier with time. She will show up at your door. Be ready to not answer.


----------



## TDSC60

When Plan A (her EX) turns out to be a POS.
Plan B (you) gets assaulted with a full court press of apologies.
Just remember that the EX will always be the father of her kids and will never, ever be completely out of her life.


----------



## Blondilocks

Your plan: block her on e-mail; block her on phone; she shows up at door - don't let her in. She catches you out & about - tell her you've moved on and suggest she do the same. Then walk away!


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## ArthurGPym

So last night I brought a woman to my little house and we slept together. It was really nice while it lasted, but after she left this morning I felt guilty. Don’t know why. Why do I feel like I cheated?


----------



## Andy1001

ArthurGPym said:


> So last night I brought a woman to my little house and we slept together. It was really nice while it lasted, but after she left this morning I felt guilty. Don’t know why. Why do I feel like I cheated?


I hope she was hot!!!!!


----------



## sideways

Can certainly appreciate feeling that way.

She's the first woman you've been with coming out of your relationship with Sarah. You just need to address that inner thought with some positive dialog.

This is part of the grieving process.
You don't owe Sarah ANYTHING!!
She's the one that walked away from you.

Listen, we only have one opportunity to live our life, and so do everything in your power to enjoy the journey. 

You've taken a HUGE first step going to Spain.
You're following your passion (guitar lessons), and while doing it experiencing a foreign culture.

Soak it ALL in. 
The scenery, the food, the music, the people, the art, and now a beautiful Spanish Senorita!!

Do NOT beat yourself up or feel guilty!!

Eventually you were going to have to get back out there. Better now than later!!

One day, years from now, you'll look back on your life, and this Spain trip will bring a HUGE smile to your face. Don't let Sarah rob you of living your life!!

Carpe Diem my friend!!

Go make the best of today!!


----------



## Zedd

ArthurGPym said:


> So last night I brought a woman to my little house and we slept together. It was really nice while it lasted, but after she left this morning I felt guilty. Don’t know why. Why do I feel like I cheated?


First - Good.
Second - you feel like you cheated because you went dark. You never actually read the texts whatever of her justification BS that would have only made you feel better about walking away once you processed it all. It feels like you walked out, not that she pushed you out. It'll pass. You know you've done nothing wrong.


----------



## jsmart

ArthurGPym said:


> So last night I brought a woman to my little house and we slept together. It was really nice while it lasted, but after she left this morning I felt guilty. Don’t know why. Why do I feel like I cheated?


You feel guilty because emotionally you’re still attached to the ex girlfriend and you’re not the betraying type. 

I have to say that you surpassed my expectations. I knew you would hook up with one of the locals but didn’t think it would be so soon. You ruddy devil you.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> So last night I brought a woman to my little house and we slept together. It was really nice while it lasted, but after she left this morning I felt guilty. Don’t know why. Why do I feel like I cheated?


Because you are a good man who cares about people; even people that don’t deserve it.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> So last night I brought a woman to my little house and we slept together. It was really nice while it lasted, but after she left this morning I felt guilty. Don’t know why. Why do I feel like I cheated?


on another note, you keep moving forward in a positive way. I gather from reading other threads that people here are always against going out and getting some strange after a cheating incident without like… multiple years going by or something. For all I know, that is the correct thing to do. I don’t know. I would think that would be great, but I’m not in that situation and I don’t know what I would do.

what I can say is that even though you are fighting constant pain, you are still on your feet. You went far away for a great vacation. You struggled and keep pushing on to increase your guitar skills. And even before you slept with this woman (I hope she was smoking hot), you are being social. You are putting yourself out there and speaking with people and enjoying life. That is still an accomplishment. I know if I was in your situation, I would go into hiding and speak to no one, let alone be in a good enough mood to strike up a convo with a woman and have it go so well that I would get to sleep with her.

you are on a roll, sir. Keep it up.


----------



## ArthurGPym

There were two reasons I felt guilty. One was what you all mentioned above. I am still not over Sarah and I felt like I had cheated on her for some bizarre reason. Second, this woman I was with was a good twenty years younger than me. She is a dance student visiting one of the studios here and we met at her practice yesterday where I and another guitar student had to go to play for the dancers. I messed up with my playing and she messed up in her dancing and we both sort of bonded over our shared shame. I asked her to coffee and then we went back for the afternoon class, then we went to supper afterwards, then we ended up in bed. She is indeed beautiful. Not Spanish, Estonian. Where is Estonia? Never even heard of that country before yesterday. But I doubt there will be a replay. She was gone before I woke up this morning and I probably won't see her again.


----------



## Blondilocks

Estonianian women are known for their beauty. You lucky dog!


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> There were two reasons I felt guilty. One was what you all mentioned above. I am still not over Sarah and I felt like I had cheated on her for some bizarre reason. Second, this woman I was with was a good twenty years younger than me. She is a dance student visiting one of the studios here and we met at her practice yesterday where I and another guitar student had to go to play for the dancers. I messed up with my playing and she messed up in her dancing and we both sort of bonded over our shared shame. I asked her to coffee and then we went back for the afternoon class, then we went to supper afterwards, then we ended up in bed. She is indeed beautiful. Not Spanish, Estonian. Where is Estonia? Never even heard of that country before yesterday. But I doubt there will be a replay. She was gone before I woke up this morning and I probably won't see her again.


Love this. Everything about this post is great. You are showing a great amount of confidence with all of your actions. I can't help but try to put myself in your situation and what I would do. It would be sooooo hard for me to pick myself up off the floor. Any mistake I would make in life I would beat the living sh1t out of myself (like when you messed up your guitar playing). I would be too embarrassed to discuss something that I would consider yet another failure - let alone take a beautiful woman out for a drink and lightheartedly laugh about it. I wouldn't even look at it from the sex standpoint (To me, that is automatically awesome, but that's because I like sex on the daily). Everything you are doing is a movement towards positivity and not allowing any negativity bring you down to where you are wasting time. I allow negativity to waste time in my life way too often. I'm telling you personally, you are an inspiration to me to deal with my own sh1t and not allow negativity to waste my time. It's ok to feel sad, but you aren't allowing it to rule you. It's a great way to live and I want to do the same.


----------



## Andy1001

ArthurGPym said:


> There were two reasons I felt guilty. One was what you all mentioned above. I am still not over Sarah and I felt like I had cheated on her for some bizarre reason. Second, this woman I was with was a good twenty years younger than me. She is a dance student visiting one of the studios here and we met at her practice yesterday where I and another guitar student had to go to play for the dancers. I messed up with my playing and she messed up in her dancing and we both sort of bonded over our shared shame. I asked her to coffee and then we went back for the afternoon class, then we went to supper afterwards, then we ended up in bed. She is indeed beautiful. Not Spanish, Estonian. Where is Estonia? Never even heard of that country before yesterday. But I doubt there will be a replay. She was gone before I woke up this morning and I probably won't see her again.


Sounds like the perfect way for you to have gotten back on the horse. 
Women like this are like stars. 
They appear at night and disappear by morning.


----------



## farsidejunky

Andy1001 said:


> Sounds like the perfect way for you to have gotten back on the horse.
> Women like this are like stars.
> They appear at night and disappear by morning.


This.

They serve as a pleasant reminder that you are still who you thought you were. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## jsmart

ArthurGPym said:


> There were two reasons I felt guilty. One was what you all mentioned above. I am still not over Sarah and I felt like I had cheated on her for some bizarre reason. Second, this woman I was with was a good twenty years younger than me. She is a dance student visiting one of the studios here and we met at her practice yesterday where I and another guitar student had to go to play for the dancers. I messed up with my playing and she messed up in her dancing and we both sort of bonded over our shared shame. I asked her to coffee and then we went back for the afternoon class, then we went to supper afterwards, then we ended up in bed. She is indeed beautiful. Not Spanish, Estonian. Where is Estonia? Never even heard of that country before yesterday. But I doubt there will be a replay. She was gone before I woke up this morning and I probably won't see her again.


You dirty ruddy bastage. Hooking up with a dancer that was so much younger than you. She was definitely a shooting start that was sent from above to bring you to life. You see that all that talk about the locals only wanting Moorish looking types wasn’t the case.


----------



## Goose54

> ...this woman I was with was a good twenty years younger than me.


Nothing to feel bad about. You see the equation goes; your “resources” to retire so young (-10 years), you play guitar (-5 years), she is former soviet block national (+5 years). So you see, nothing to feel bad about.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LOL yes it was a very very pleasant distraction. I definitely needed some companionship. She spoke good English and it was just nice to sit and talk to a woman for a few hours (among other things). But that old dull ache is still there. Guess it will take some time to stop thinking about Sarah.


----------



## Marc878

Estonia - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org




DANG!!!





estonian women at DuckDuckGo


DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




duckduckgo.com


----------



## Chillidog

ArthurGPym said:


> LOL yes it was a very very pleasant distraction. I definitely needed some companionship. She spoke good English and it was just nice to sit and talk to a woman for a few hours (among other things). But that old dull ache is still there. Guess it will take some time to stop thinking about Sarah.


 Is there anything truthful Sarah could say to you to possibly take her back.


----------



## In Absentia

Estonia is nice and then you can get the boat to Finland...


----------



## LATERILUS79

Chillidog said:


> Is there anything truthful Sarah could say to you to possibly take her back.


you know, no matter how many times I read another story of someone either wanting or giving a second chance it still boggles my mind. Where is this coming from?

who is teaching people that second chances are either ok or even worse yet “deserved”? Why do people think everyone deserves a second chance?

your chance is the opportunity that comes across your plate. Either take it or don’t. If you do take it, run with it. Never look back. You made the decision. Own it. If it turns out that you shouldn’t have taken the opportunity, own that too. Tell the person that you are moving on.
At that point, the opportunity has been severed. Fair enough. Both people go their own way.

NO TAKE BACKS.

it doesn’t matter what truth sarah could say at this point. Why should it? She had her opportunity with a high quality man and made the decision to throw it away. Why would truth matter at this point? How does that fix her poor decisions?

I’m a firm believer in everyone deserves a chance. One chance. Better pay attention. Here comes your opportunity. Do your best. Make it happen. So many people drift through their lives thinking everyone owes them something.

nobody owes anyone else a damn thing.

there are choices and the consequences associated with those choices. Had sarah stayed faithful to Arthur, the consequence of her choice would have been a fulfilling romantic life with him and a powerful male role model to her sons. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal. Apparently, she does want that, but only on her second chance that she feels she deserves.


----------



## Taxman

Estonian women are (at least the ones I have met) uniformly knockouts. Estonia is north eastern Europe bordering on Lithuania (my grandfather's homeland) and Latvia (home of the reindeer). Good solid eastern European stock.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Chillidog said:


> Is there anything truthful Sarah could say to you to possibly take her back.


Nothing. She has shown me who she is. I guess she could go back in time and tell her ex-husband to bury his own mom himself. But that would disrupt the space time continuum wouldn't it?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> Estonia - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DANG!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> estonian women at DuckDuckGo
> 
> 
> DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> duckduckgo.com


The gal I was with looks like an exotic Wynona Ryder.


----------



## ArthurGPym

In Absentia said:


> Estonia is nice and then you can get the boat to Finland...


She told me that the Estonians and Finns are sort of distant cousins and that their languages are similar.


----------



## sideways

Have you heard from Sarah's son since you've been in Spain? If so how's he doing?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Taxman said:


> Estonian women are (at least the ones I have met) uniformly knockouts. Estonia is north eastern Europe bordering on Lithuania (my grandfather's homeland) and Latvia (home of the reindeer). Good solid eastern European stock.


Yeah if you could imagine a Russian-looking Wynona Ryder, that is exactly what she looks like. Dark hair and eyes, creamy white skin, with very full lips and cheekbones. 

Most of the Spanish women here are of either Basque or Gitano (gypsy) stock. They are beautiful, but it is a severe kind of beauty.


----------



## In Absentia

ArthurGPym said:


> She told me that the Estonians and Finns are sort of distant cousins and that their languages are similar.


Yes, it's a Uralic language, a Southern Finnic language, to be precise... incomprehensible...


----------



## fluffycoco

Have you heard from Barb who invited you over for dinner, she seemed like you alot


----------



## LATERILUS79

Not gonna lie, Arthur. I hope you get a chance to play guitar for her dancing again while you are still there.


----------



## ArthurGPym

sideways said:


> Have you heard from Sarah's son since you've been in Spain? If so how's he doing?


No I have not. But that is fine.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> Not gonna lie, Arthur. I hope you get a chance to play guitar for her dancing again while you are still there.


She is only here through the end of this week and flying back tomorrow. So, no, I won't be working with her again.


----------



## ArthurGPym

fluffycoco said:


> Have you heard from Barb who invited you over for dinner, she seemed like you alot


No but I have texted with her husband and things are pretty uneventful back home. He told me Sarah and her ex are definitely a couple again. I wasn't surprised. He says he's distancing himself from the whole thing. If his wife wants to remain friends with Sarah there is nothing he can do to affect that.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> you know, no matter how many times I read another story of someone either wanting or giving a second chance it still boggles my mind. Where is this coming from?
> 
> who is teaching people that second chances are either ok or even worse yet “deserved”? Why do people think everyone deserves a second chance?
> 
> your chance is the opportunity that comes across your plate. Either take it or don’t. If you do take it, run with it. Never look back. You made the decision. Own it. If it turns out that you shouldn’t have taken the opportunity, own that too. Tell the person that you are moving on.
> At that point, the opportunity has been severed. Fair enough. Both people go their own way.
> 
> NO TAKE BACKS.
> 
> it doesn’t matter what truth sarah could say at this point. Why should it? She had her opportunity with a high quality man and made the decision to throw it away. Why would truth matter at this point? How does that fix her poor decisions?
> 
> I’m a firm believer in everyone deserves a chance. One chance. Better pay attention. Here comes your opportunity. Do your best. Make it happen. So many people drift through their lives thinking everyone owes them something.
> 
> nobody owes anyone else a damn thing.
> 
> there are choices and the consequences associated with those choices. Had sarah stayed faithful to Arthur, the consequence of her choice would have been a fulfilling romantic life with him and a powerful male role model to her sons. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal. Apparently, she does want that, but only on her second chance that she feels she deserves.


I agree with most everything you say. I have stopped wondering why Sarah went back to him. It is probably a dozen reasons why but I have no desire to find them out.


----------



## Marc878

Better her x’s problem than yours.


----------



## Taxman

My bet is that Sarah will try for a few months with ex then realize why she left in the first place. You may then be a thought. Client’s ex did this to her next guy. He cut her off and dated other women. Her ex h never did that. She did not know how to react. She tried pursuing and got a devastating put down. She was told that he did not have the time to waste on someone who cannot make up their mind. He also told her that as a man his decisions are final. He did not wish her well he told her that she needs therapy.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> I agree with most everything you say. I have stopped wondering why Sarah went back to him. It is probably a dozen reasons why but I have no desire to find them out.


I sorta look at it as a job offer, Arthur. The way people treat infidelity in relationships boggles my mind when it comes to second chances.

can you imagine running a business and having an employee go behind your back to a competitor, give away trade secrets, start working for them behind your back, all the while slacking off on their job that you offered them? Then one day the employee comes in and says, “I’m leaving to said competitor”. Ok. You part ways. Sure, the employee did you dirty, but some people suck and you move on.

then one day that former employee comes back and says, “I want my old job back. I made a mistake. The competitor wasn’t all that great. Please take me back even though I already gave the competitor all of your trade secrets.”

once you remove romantic relationships and apply it to something else, it looks even more ridiculous. What employer in their right mind would EVER take someone back like that?! I mean, there is NO WAY. In fact, the former employee wouldn’t even have the gall to ask for their job back. They know they done f*cked up. But a wayward spouse? They have no problem asking for their old position back.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ArthurGPym said:


> There were two reasons I felt guilty. One was what you all mentioned above. I am still not over Sarah and I felt like I had cheated on her for some bizarre reason. Second, this woman I was with was a good twenty years younger than me. She is a dance student visiting one of the studios here and we met at her practice yesterday where I and another guitar student had to go to play for the dancers. I messed up with my playing and she messed up in her dancing and we both sort of bonded over our shared shame. I asked her to coffee and then we went back for the afternoon class, then we went to supper afterwards, then we ended up in bed. She is indeed beautiful. Not Spanish, Estonian. Where is Estonia? Never even heard of that country before yesterday. But I doubt there will be a replay. She was gone before I woke up this morning and I probably won't see her again.


Across the Baltic Sea from Sweden.


----------



## Divinely Favored

In Absentia said:


> Estonia is nice and then you can get the boat to Finland...


Or Sweden.


----------



## johndoe12299

LATERILUS79 said:


> I sorta look at it as a job offer, Arthur. The way people treat infidelity in relationships boggles my mind when it comes to second chances.
> 
> can you imagine running a business and having an employee go behind your back to a competitor, give away trade secrets, start working for them behind your back, all the while slacking off on their job that you offered them? Then one day the employee comes in and says, “I’m leaving to said competitor”. Ok. You part ways. Sure, the employee did you dirty, but some people suck and you move on.
> 
> then one day that former employee comes back and says, “I want my old job back. I made a mistake. The competitor wasn’t all that great. Please take me back even though I already gave the competitor all of your trade secrets.”
> 
> once you remove romantic relationships and apply it to something else, it looks even more ridiculous. What employer in their right mind would EVER take someone back like that?! I mean, there is NO WAY. In fact, the former employee wouldn’t even have the gall to ask for their job back. They know they done f*cked up. But a wayward spouse? They have no problem asking for their old position back.


Mostly agree, but you don't have kids with employees.


----------



## LATERILUS79

johndoe12299 said:


> Mostly agree, but you don't have kids with employees.


Lol. Give me some time, I’ll work it into the analogy somehow. 

but to your point, let’s just talk about couples that don’t have kids then. We unfortunately still have plenty of those stories here. I see the analogy fitting well in that regard.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I'm on my last week of classes and have been practicing day and night for four days for a class recital this Thursday. I have to perform a one complete buleria and one rumba. I'm pretty nervous about this. The buleria I should be fine with, but I have real problem with rumbas as I don't quite have the feel for them. Rumbas are extremely rhythmic and you have to be precise with strumming and tapping (golpes). You almost have to start as a kid playing rumbas to play them well. 

This is not like a pass or fail thing, but I just don't want to crash and burn in front of my classmates. I'm scared!' LOL!. 😬 All this focus has kept my mind from wandering towards my problems back home, which is a good thing.


----------



## sideways

After what you've been through SCREW being afraid of anything ever again!!!

Just breathe, relax and have fun!!


----------



## Divinely Favored

ArthurGPym said:


> I'm on my last week of classes and have been practicing day and night for four days for a class recital this Thursday. I have to perform a one complete buleria and one rumba. I'm pretty nervous about this. The buleria I should be fine with, but I have real problem with rumbas as I don't quite have the feel for them. Rumbas are extremely rhythmic and you have to be precise with strumming and tapping (golpes). You almost have to start as a kid playing rumbas to play them well.
> 
> This is not like a pass or fail thing, but I just don't want to crash and burn in front of my classmates. I'm scared!' LOL!. 😬 All this focus has kept my mind from wandering towards my problems back home, which is a good thing.


My son taught himself to play with guitar hero. He can't read sheet music but listen to a song and duplicate it. I think his best is when he just starts making up stuff, has SRV feel to it. 

He started with an old pawn shop Sammick electric, then a Fender Acoustic for Bday, then a BC Rich Warlock bass, followed by a cherry red Epiphone Wildkat and finally a Fender Stratocaster.

When he was 15/16 he was taking lessons from a guy that owned local music store. Dude could jam on anything. He got son to do something. He would have son play lead on anything while he played rhythm. Every 7-10 seconds he would say switch and they would switch. They did not miss a beat and it was smooth thansition each time. The song was continuous like the same person played what yhey started out with. 

The teacher was very pleased and asked him to join a teen/young adult band that played the area he manages. He said there were very few adults that were playing years could pull off tge switching between lead and rhythm repeatedly and as easily as my son could. He practiced with the band 1x and said no, they are just goofing off and a waste of his time.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Divinely Favored said:


> My son taught himself to play with guitar hero. He can't read sheet music but listen to a song and duplicate it. I think his best is when he just starts making up stuff, has SRV feel to it.
> 
> He started with an old pawn shop Sammick electric, then a Fender Acoustic for Bday, then a BC Rich Warlock bass, followed by a cherry red Epiphone Wildkat and finally a Fender Stratocaster.
> 
> When he was 15/16 he was taking lessons from a guy that owned local music store. Dude could jam on anything. He got son to do something. He would have son play lead on anything while he played rhythm. Every 7-10 seconds he would say switch and they would switch. They did not miss a beat and it was smooth thansition each time. The song was continuous like the same person played what yhey started out with.
> 
> The teacher was very pleased and asked him to join a teen/young adult band that played the area he manages. He said there were very few adults that were playing years could pull off tge switching between lead and rhythm repeatedly and as easily as my son could. He practiced with the band 1x and said no, they are just goofing off and a waste of his time.


Someone needs to get this young man into advanced formal lessons immediately. Sounds like this teacher showed him the basics but only got him so far. If your son is that gifted, it is worth the money to track down a top notch instructor to carry him forwards. It would also be good to maybe get the young man interested in maybe going to a school like Berklee in Boston, the one John Steve Vai went to. Or the Guitar Institute of Technology in Hollywood. GIT is a good one because your son can focus on the music he enjoys playing and he will be required to collaborate with other students and instructors, many if not most of whom are highly skilled and who will kick his ass daily and inspire him to be better. If your son likes to be challenged, this would be an ideal setting.

Self-instruction will only take him so far. In order to progress, he has to learn to work diligently, set goals, and develop lots of self-discipline when it comes to practicing. If he is just teaching himself he will eventually hit a wall with his playing where he fails to progress further, and when this happens discouragement settles in, followed by apathy, and before you know it the guitar and amp are in the closet and he's just at his computer gaming all day.


----------



## ccpowerslave

+1 to that, also recommend Berklee.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ArthurGPym said:


> Someone needs to get this young man into advanced formal lessons immediately. Sounds like this teacher showed him the basics but only got him so far. If your son is that gifted, it is worth the money to track down a top notch instructor to carry him forwards. It would also be good to maybe get the young man interested in maybe going to a school like Berklee in Boston, the one John Steve Vai went to. Or the Guitar Institute of Technology in Hollywood. GIT is a good one because your son can focus on the music he enjoys playing and he will be required to collaborate with other students and instructors, many if not most of whom are highly skilled and who will kick his ass daily and inspire him to be better. If your son likes to be challenged, this would be an ideal setting.
> 
> Self-instruction will only take him so far. In order to progress, he has to learn to work diligently, set goals, and develop lots of self-discipline when it comes to practicing. If he is just teaching himself he will eventually hit a wall with his playing where he fails to progress further, and when this happens discouragement settles in, followed by apathy, and before you know it the guitar and amp are in the closet and he's just at his computer gaming all day.


Too late...he is getting married on 9/18 to his HS GF.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Well I did pretty well today and got good comments from my teacher and classmates. I would say performance wise I was middle of the pack in a class of twenty. So I'm pleased. This was a good experience for me. It got me out of my comfort zone and I'll go home a better player, with some more tools in my belt. 

Packing up tonight then renting a car tomorrow morning and driving down to Seville for a couple days. Then I'll drive east through Granada to Murcia. I'll spend a couple days in Murcia, then leisurely head back north to Madrid and fly home on September 3. Road trips are always cathartic.


----------



## sideways

Congrats!!!

Enjoy the remaining time you have there.

Safe travels home.


----------



## Marc878

Cmon man, we need food pics !!!!!


----------



## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> Cmon man, we need food pics !!!!!


Wait till I get to Seville and I will post some Tapas pics.


----------



## Kaliber

Yes please food pics!!


----------



## Gabriel

Really hoping the EU doesn't ban us here. They are talking about it. Our trip is scheduled to happen in a month. Getting nervous.


----------



## seadoug105

Seville, Nice!

I’ve heard great things about the Barber there!


----------



## ArthurGPym

Here is a pic of the cathedral in Murcia










Here is some tapas from last night









And a tortilla (omelette) from this morning


----------



## Marc878

Nice!!!!


----------



## sideways

That omelet looks F'n good😋


----------



## Asterix

@ArthurGPym I love 'Murica (See what I did there?  I might be just a bit dislyxic)

Thanks to your post, I just looked up Murcia and learned something new for the day today.


----------



## Evinrude58

Nice to see how the other side lives lol


----------



## Evinrude58

Your thread should be a freaking blueprint for how to delouse oneself from a cheater. I beg you, please don’t ruin your perfect ten off the 30m platform by having any contact with the wretch upon return.


----------



## fluffycoco

too much for one person, you need someone to share


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> Nice to see how the other side lives lol


Yeah it's tough but someone has to do it. Spent the day driving leisurely up the Hwy 43 and tonight I'm staying in Puebla de Almoradiel. Unfortunately the town is on lockdown due to Covid, so I have had to eat in. 

I'll tell you, if any of you are interested in old castles and churches, Spain is the place. There are literally castles everywhere in Toledo, Almeria and Andalusia. I'm stopping off in Aranjuez tomorrow. Aranjuez is an outlying community of Madrid. This is where the royal palace is. I want to stop off and see that before heading into the city. 

Cheers.


----------



## ABHale

How are things Arthur?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Things are going fine. Got home this past Friday. Been fighting jet lag and catching up with things. My healing is going well.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Sarah left me a handwritten letter when she came to the house while I was gone. Not sure I want to read it. What do you all think?


----------



## Blondilocks

Do you feel like you want closure? If not, don't read it.


----------



## Openminded

It’s likely full of apologies and hopes for being friends, blah, blah, blah. I find that sort of thing to be manipulative because the goal is usually to reel you back sooner or later. My guess is that you’ll read it. Whether it helps you is another story.


----------



## Evinrude58

The curiosity killed the cat.
She’s with her ex and was using you as a backup if it didn’t go as planned. The smart money is burn it and never waste a thought on her.
However, I know I couldn’t resist reading it.

I’ll tell you what it will say:
I’m so sorry for hurting you and excuses to make her feel less ****ty about what she did to you. 
She’ll ask you if you can still be friends possibly, to see if she can get you to communicate enough to see if you’re still on the hook for plan b or ego boosts.

And she will wish you well and a bunch of bs to make it sound like you really meant something to her and that she was truly concerned.

what else could she say?

Her actions proved how she felt and how much she cared about you: Enough to use you for sex and companionships, gifts and trips.. not enough to be loyal to you. Don’t read it. Be stronger than me.

she’s just worried as hell about torching the bridge she had to a wealthy man that treated her good, but she didn’t really love.

send her a picture of a bridge with a raging inferno on it, along with the unopened letter inside, and consider that a trip out of the dugout after a grand slam to wave to the crowd. I’m a huge fan of how youhandled this. Super pain inflicted, and super Strength shown.


----------



## Zedd

I'd read it. At worst, you'll roll your eyes and better understand her mindset.


----------



## sideways

You're doing great and no doubt see her for who she is. That said, read it, get a good chuckle, and continue doing what you're doing.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

If you feel that nothing she can say would sway you, read it, if not, burn it.


----------



## Gabriel

I wouldn't be able to help myself. I'd read it.


----------



## Marc878

Why not? Just know it’s ******** and under the circumstances doesn’t change her actions. Which were horrific.


----------



## Chuck71

Throw it in a drawer. Next time she approaches you, hand it back to her unopened. Or if six months pass

and no further contact, toss it. There will be contact...just wait.


----------



## moulinyx

Read it for your closure. You already know it is just going to be one big apology.


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> Sarah left me a handwritten letter when she came to the house while I was gone. Not sure I want to read it. What do you all think?


Might as well. Before reading it, remind yourself that you are done with her. It might be interesting and may give you a bit of closure.


----------



## Galabar01

Once thing to note -- she might want you as a "friend" to apply leverage to her EX husband. You can be the burr under his saddle that allows her to keep him in line: "You aren't being nice to me? Well ArthurGPym is still pining for me!"

Don't let her use you like that. Cut ties 100%.


----------



## TDSC60

I'm not sure about the letter. I could be nothing more than apology for hurting you and it was not intentional. Or it could be a plea to get you back (by "you" I mean your money). If it is a plea to get you back know that you are her Plan B. The nice well-off guy who can give her and her kids a better standard of living.
You can never trust this woman again and that means she should not be in your life, not even as a friend.


----------



## ABHale

Curiosity would get the better of me. I would read it.

You could send it back to her unopened.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> Sarah left me a handwritten letter when she came to the house while I was gone. Not sure I want to read it. What do you all think?


I'm sure everyone here will tell you not to read it. 

Curiosity would kill me. Wouldn't change my mind about getting back together, but the curiosity would eat at me until I read it. I personally would treat it like pulling off a bandaid fast. Read it once to kill the curiosity then burn it. No need to dwell or re-read.


----------



## mickybill

Just read it, by burning it or putting it in drawer for a year or holding your breath until you turn blue you give it way more power than it has...reading it doesn't make you weak or means that she"won". You're just defusing the bomb.
She will apologize or blame you or say she doesnt' know what she wants...and hopes that you can be friends sometime in the future...


----------



## Landofblue

Don’t give it more power than it deserves. Read it and then move on. If she wanted to be with you she’d be there right now. Alternative would be to have a friend read it first but I don’t think I’d give it that much effort.


----------



## Kaliber

Do what you *think *is right not what you *feel *is right!


----------



## TriX

Up to you if you want to read it or not, but if you do read it, it will probably be filled with a lot of justifications (read as excuses) of why she did what she did.

she will possibly say that she had a great time with you, that you are a good man, yada yada yada, then tell you that it was the wrong time, her ex needed her, yada yada yada.... it is not you, it is her, yada yada yada.... 

Most of it will probably be just drivel.

Will that bring you closure? It will be up to you.


----------



## Kaliber

TriX said:


> Up to you if you want to read it or not, but if you do read it, it will probably be filled with a lot of justifications (read as excuses) of why she did what she did.
> 
> she will possibly say that she had a great time with you, that you are a good man, yada yada yada, then tell you that it was the wrong time, her ex needed her, yada yada yada.... it is not you, it is her, yada yada yada....
> 
> Most of it will probably be just drivel.
> 
> Will that bring you closure? It will be up to you.


Or maybe she will deny going back to her ex and tries to gaslight OP saying she didn't go back to him, she was just consoling him on these hard times!
At this point we don't know anything


----------



## Edmund

Maybe she just wants the watch back!


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> Sarah left me a handwritten letter when she came to the house while I was gone. Not sure I want to read it. What do you all think?


Burn it unread. You have nothing to gain by reading whatever nonsense and attempted manipulation she has written.


----------



## gr8ful1

I’d read it and then if she expresses any feelings to you I’d mail it to her ex that she’s back with.


----------



## fluffycoco

Maybe she is not with ex anymore. Read it and get back together.


----------



## Evinrude58

fluffycoco said:


> Maybe she is not with ex anymore. Read it and get back together.


----------



## hinterdir

ArthurGPym said:


> Sarah left me a handwritten letter when she came to the house while I was gone. Not sure I want to read it. What do you all think?


It won't hurt to read it. 

You can burn it after if you want but at least see if she gives some explanation and at least apologizes.


----------



## sideways

fluffycoco said:


> Maybe she is not with ex anymore. Read it and get back together.


Um....NO


----------



## Lostinthought61

My guess given what we know about Sarah said this was her lame excuse to explain her situation and why she went back to the EX it’s a feeble attempt of a half apology, half excuse for her actions.... in the end she does not want to walk away from you looking like the bad person and I suspect this is her feeble attempt of covering her tracks with you but we all know the truth except for her I believe will not ever except the truth in herself.


----------



## ArthurGPym

ABHale said:


> Curiosity would get the better of me. I would read it.
> 
> You could send it back to her unopened.


That's what I did. I threw it in a large envelope and mailed it back to her. I'm removing myself from the game. Nothing she can do will hurt me anymore.


----------



## ccpowerslave

ArthurGPym said:


> That's what I did. I threw it in a large envelope and mailed it back to her. I'm removing myself from the game. Nothing she can do will hurt me anymore.


Absolute unit.


----------



## ArthurGPym

ccpowerslave said:


> Absolute unit.


Not really. Just tired. Today I feel kind of defeated. I'm not sure why. Just hollow.


----------



## ccpowerslave

ArthurGPym said:


> Not really. Just tired. Today I feel kind of defeated. I'm not sure why. Just hollow.


So maybe like a sus2 or sus4, I feel like a maj7#5.


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> That's what I did. I threw it in a large envelope and mailed it back to her. I'm removing myself from the game. Nothing she can do will hurt me anymore.


Unfortunately, you are still playing her game. You have responded / reacted by sending her letter back. Regardless of how you interpret your action, she will interpret it differently.

The best option when dealing with an individual like Sarah is to offer no response / reaction. Nothing but cold silence.

You will have other opportunities to practice. She will not let you go easily. Your sending the letter back will merely encourage her to continue to reach out, to attempt to manipulate you.


----------



## Zedd

ArthurGPym said:


> That's what I did. I threw it in a large envelope and mailed it back to her. I'm removing myself from the game. Nothing she can do will hurt me anymore.


She'll stop by your place again now that she knows you're back.


----------



## SunCMars

marko polo said:


> Unfortunately, you are still playing her game. You have responded / reacted by sending her letter back. Regardless of how you interpret your action, she will interpret it differently.
> 
> The best option when dealing with an individual like Sarah is to offer no response / reaction. Nothing but cold silence.
> 
> You will have other opportunities to practice. She will not let you go easily. Your sending the letter back will merely encourage her to continue to reach out, to attempt to manipulate you.


I agree with this, you are spot-on.

Grey Rock her.


Then again....

Arthur's actions told her she was "dead to him" (to OP). 

Sarah is assuredly receiving pressure from others (+ her son) and likely felt compelled to 'splain' her actions.


----------



## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> Not really. Just tired. Today I feel kind of defeated. I'm not sure why. Just hollow.


Because the girl you were in love with didn’t feel the same for you. You’re hurting and it is not your fault. You know it takes time. Hang in there and better days to come. The bad days will be fewer and further between.


----------



## Marc878

She’ll probably show up in a raincoat with nothing underneath. Just keep thinking I’m not plan B and don’t do sloppy seconds.🤮


----------



## Kaliber

Marc878 said:


> She’ll probably show up in a raincoat with nothing underneath. Just keep thinking I’m not plan B and don’t do sloppy seconds.🤮


If it reaches to that point, I would smash


----------



## Underground66

Maybe you should have sent it to the ex-husband, just a thought off the top of my head.


----------



## SunCMars

Marc878 said:


> She’ll probably show up in a raincoat with nothing underneath. Just keep thinking I’m not plan B and don’t do sloppy seconds.🤮


Kinda funny, thinking about this..
But, I doubt this...

That would be the actions of a desperate woman.

Nope, she is confident of her abilities, her looks and her charms.

Her actions in the last few months shows she is _capabl_e of being a _user_ of men.
Users have sparse empathy.

I do not think she is evil, no, she is just trapped in the past, her feelings for her ex-husband never left her.
And she hates to lose.

She hates to lose, hence her letter to Arthur Dear.
She does not want to lose him, either.
When I say lose, she does not want to lose his Goodwill.
...........................................................

Dearest Arthur,

Let me explain....

Don't hate me.

These feelings for my ex-husband came on me so suddenly, gosh, I was caught off guard.

Blah, blah, blah....

Oh, we can still be friends, well, not quite like before.

_Keep up your orbiting. I like that._

..................................................................

What she did at the funeral was so hurtful, and so revealing.
She totally ignored his presence.
It, again, showed where her heart lay.
..................................................................

Gads, only if she had been more open, less sudden and less cold about this change of heart of hers.
Or, of what else?

That, she needed to sort her old and new feelings out.

Had she done this..
Then, while it would have still hurt Arthur, he would have had more time to process this all out.

No, she sprung it on him expectantly. I think the signs were there, prior to her getting back with her ex.
This was a tort of opportunity.
Don't be too surprised if (Sarah and her Ex) had done some private talking before all this went down.

She acted callous.

OP just did not see them, or this coming.

Love from others is never really yours, it is something given to you.
In this case, she jerked it away from OP and gave it back to her ex.(not that it ever left).
She did this with no care, at all for OP's feelings.

Love, strangely, *can* make us do unkind, untoward things to others in the pursuit of it.

Move on, Arthur.


_Lilith-_


----------



## ArthurGPym

She won't be coming back here again. If I know her, once she decides on something she rarely turns back. I stuck a post-it on top of the envelope telling her to no longer contact me and to never come on my property again. So... I don't think I'm playing the game.


----------



## Gabriel

ArthurGPym said:


> She won't be coming back here again. If I know her, once she decides on something she rarely turns back. I stuck a post-it on top of the envelope telling her to no longer contact me and to never come on my property again. So... I don't think I'm playing the game.


What was the gist? Was it simply an apology letter?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Gabriel said:


> What was the gist? Was it simply an apology letter?


No clue. I didn't open it. Haven't read any of her texts either.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> No clue. I didn't open it. Haven't read any of her texts either.


You have way more will power than I. No way my curiosity would allow me to do what you have done.


----------



## Taxman

My bet is that she will want to make her point, whether you are interested in hearing her out of not. She now knows well that her actions ended your relationship. Whether or not she went back to her ex is moot. You are not interested in what she has to say, and she wants to justify what she did or apologize. Neither of which has any bearing on the price of tea in China. I believe that at some point, Arthur, you will have her on your doorstep.


----------



## ArthurGPym

BigDaddyNY said:


> You have way more will power than I. No way my curiosity would allow me to do what you have done.


No, I'm just tired man. You know, since I divorced my first cheating wife twenty something years ago, I have been out with well over a hundred women and slept with close to a quarter of them. Most were one-offs. A quarter were worth pursuing to have at the least a mildly emotional and physical relationship with, and I would say only five of those women were of a quality that I would consider marriageable. Five out of a hundred. Sarah was one of those, and if even she couldn't go the distance, what does that bode for the majority of women I meet? I am tired. I am discouraged. I am disgusted with the state of our society today. There are times when I get sick of having a d*#k. I have come to a place where I no longer believe in committed love. It is a terrible place to be.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Taxman said:


> My bet is that she will want to make her point, whether you are interested in hearing her out of not. She now knows well that her actions ended your relationship. Whether or not she went back to her ex is moot. You are not interested in what she has to say, and she wants to justify what she did or apologize. Neither of which has any bearing on the price of tea in China. I believe that at some point, Arthur, you will have her on your doorstep.


Yes, and I will call the cops. Any love for her that I once had has melted into hate.


----------



## ArthurGPym

The trip to Spain taught me one thing: wherever you go, there you are. You cannot leave yourself and your problems behind. The trip to Spain was educational and I came away a better guitar player. That's it. It wasn't restful or healing or spiritually enlightening the way I thought it would be.


----------



## Taxman

ArthurGPym said:


> No, I'm just tired man. You know, since I divorced my first cheating wife twenty something years ago, I have been out with well over a hundred women and slept with close to a quarter of them. Most were one-offs. A quarter were worth pursuing to have at the least a mildly emotional and physical relationship with, and I would say only five of those women were of a quality that I would consider marriageable. Five out of a hundred. Sarah was one of those, and if even she couldn't go the distance, what does that bode for the majority of women I meet? I am tired. I am discouraged. I am disgusted with the state of our society today. There are times when I get sick of having a d*#k. I have come to a place where I no longer believe in committed love. It is a terrible place to be.


TBH, Sarah is a dime a dozen. She belongs to that great subset of women who never make a decision. All options open no matter how limiting and stupid they may be. I know it cuts the circle of acceptable women down some, but they are out there, they are dangerous to every relationship they enter, and 9 times out of 10, their lack of decision making ability results in multiple broken relationships. I know this, have a relative that has pretty much sabotaged every adult relationship she has been in. Indecision has been the bane of her existence for over 40 years. There are five failed major relationships in her wake, and her prospects in her late fifties are drying up or dying off. Yet she is back on the market again, now using the internet to find the next prospect. Sad and stupid.


----------



## Gabriel

ArthurGPym said:


> The trip to Spain taught me one thing: wherever you go, there you are. You cannot leave yourself and your problems behind. The trip to Spain was educational and I came away a better guitar player. That's it. It wasn't restful or healing or spiritually enlightening the way I thought it would be.


Ain't that the truth. The only real way to be enlightened is to spend a lot of time working, thinking, meditating on something specific. A distraction never works - a new location never works.

As for the letter - I'm amazed at your will power. My guess is either 1) she is groveling to apologize and get you back, desperately. Like, I f***ed up, what can I do to get you back, please, etc. or 2) an explanation as to her behavior, that she is unbelievably sorry about what she did and hopefully one day you can learn to forgive her. I suppose it could also be 3) she's mad you ghosted her and didn't give her a chance to rebound from the situation - maybe she felt your relationship was stronger and should survive this setback and she's angry you gave up so fast.

I mean people do make mistakes. Someone she was once very close to died, and it likely messed her up. She got confused and hurt a man she cared a lot about. From her angle I would feel extremely sad - both about how I made you feel and about what could have been.

That said, I do not blame you at all for the choice you made. She did the one thing that would piss you off the most, and was flaky about it, not forthcoming, etc.


----------



## jsmart

ArthurGPym said:


> The trip to Spain taught me one thing: wherever you go, there you are. You cannot leave yourself and your problems behind. The trip to Spain was educational and I came away a better guitar player. That's it. It wasn't restful or healing or spiritually enlightening the way I thought it would be.


That’s a downer that you feel that way. This trip was an opportunity for you to reconnect with yourself. To get out of your head by completely changing your routine. There’s no doubt in my head that if you would have stayed, you would have reached out to Sarah and possibly made a spectacle of yourself by lowering yourself by asking for closure or other such nonsense. 

I think it was a mistake to send the letter back, especially with a sticky note. That just shows her that after all this time you’re still hurt, which will give her a big ego boost. You should have just tossed the note and continued the ghosting. There’s a woman out there that will knock your socks off and steal your heart but you will not find her by keeping Sarah on a pedestal or pining for her.


----------



## Openminded

ArthurGPym said:


> The trip to Spain taught me one thing: wherever you go, there you are. You cannot leave yourself and your problems behind. The trip to Spain was educational and I came away a better guitar player. That's it. It wasn't restful or healing or spiritually enlightening the way I thought it would be.


It was good for you to go but, yes, the problems tend to go too.

The only thing that works IMO is time. And it usually takes much longer than you think.


----------



## ArthurGPym

jsmart said:


> That’s a downer that you feel that way. This trip was an opportunity for you to reconnect with yourself. To get out of your head by completely changing your routine. There’s no doubt in my head that if you would have stayed, you would have reached out to Sarah and possibly made a spectacle of yourself by lowering yourself by asking for closure or other such nonsense.
> 
> I think it was a mistake to send the letter back, especially with a sticky note. That just shows her that after all this time you’re still hurt, which will give her a big ego boost. You should have just tossed the note and continued the ghosting. There’s a woman out there that will knock your socks off and steal your heart but you will not find her by keeping Sarah on a pedestal or pining for her.


I don't agree.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Sorry for being Debbie Downer guys. I'm being a whiny beetch and I know it could have ended much worse. I could have married her. Some of it is anger and some of it is jet lag.


----------



## hinterdir

ArthurGPym said:


> Sorry for being Debbie Downer guys. I'm being a whiny beetch and I know it could have ended much worse. I could have married her. Some of it is anger and some of it is jet lag.


I still don't understand why you didn't read the texts or read the letter.
That is just strange to me. 
At least the first few texts....if they started to get redundant then just mass delete them. 
Oh well, you sent the letter back. She is blocked, she's been told never to visit your address and mail is being sent back unread. I would guess you'll never see or hear from her ever again. 

All that is left is for your heart and mind to heal up and get over it. I think you would have reached that point quicker if you at least read the letter and you maybe could have reached closure easier. 

I don't fault her for getting back with her husband....they have a history together....kids together. The only evil she committed was just not talking to you about it and being honest with you up front. She kind of snuck around and did it without ever informing you. I'm not sure when she planned to do that.


----------



## Evinrude58

I personally think the unopened letter spoke volumes of how little he values her. He didn’t even open it. 

A man that had any inclination of taking her back would have opened it, and probably called her. He did neither.

She hasn’t gotten her selfish opportunity of closure, justification, or “apologizing”....

I think what he did was pretty crushing to her. I liked it.


----------



## ArthurGPym

hinterdir said:


> I still don't understand why you didn't read the texts or read the letter.
> That is just strange to me.
> At least the first few texts....if they started to get redundant then just mass delete them.
> Oh well, you sent the letter back. She is blocked, she's been told never to visit your address and mail is being sent back unread. I would guess you'll never see or hear from her ever again.
> 
> All that is left is for your heart and mind to heal up and get over it. I think you would have reached that point quicker if you at least read the letter and you maybe could have reached closure easier.
> 
> I don't fault her for getting back with her husband....they have a history together....kids together. The only evil she committed was just not talking to you about it and being honest with you up front. She kind of snuck around and did it without ever informing you. I'm not sure when she planned to do that.


When I was splitting up with my first wife she said all the right things and all the things she thought I wanted to hear, and I swallowed them hook line and sinker. I have had some other relationships over the years where I had women actively two-timing me while feeding me all the sweet platitudes in order to keep me off balance. So, you can understand why I did not want to open that floodgate by reading Sarah's texts or messages. Been there done that.

EDIT: It is possible she had been considering getting back together with her husband for some time. I was not aware of it, and I am pretty good at seeing signs. I tend to think the death of her MIL was the catalyst, and everything crashed down quickly after that. I think the reason she had such passionate sex with me that last time was because it was kind of her way of saying goodbye to me on some physical level, before dropping the bomb on me, or maybe it was manipulation. I will never know.


----------



## ccpowerslave

I found trying to run or escape from problems never works; whether it is physical (travel) or mental (drugs and alcohol) as soon as you stop it’s all there right where you left it.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> When I was splitting up with my first wife she said all the right things and all the things she thought I wanted to hear, and I swallowed them hook line and sinker. I have had some other relationships over the years where I had women actively two-timing me while feeding me all the sweet platitudes in order to keep me off balance. So, you can understand why I did not want to open that floodgate by reading Sarah's texts or messages. Been there done that.
> 
> EDIT: It is possible she had been considering getting back together with her husband for some time. I was not aware of it, and I am pretty good at seeing signs. I tend to think the death of her MIL was the catalyst, and everything crashed down quickly after that. I think the reason she had such passionate sex with me that last time was because it was kind of her way of saying goodbye to me on some physical level, before dropping the bomb on me, or maybe it was manipulation. I will never know.


Words don’t mean squat. Her actions told you everything you needed to know. Her letter pouring her little heart out after she showed you who she really was is just meaningless drivel. Why bother?

I think you handled it perfectly. *Good job!*


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> When I was splitting up with my first wife she said all the right things and all the things she thought I wanted to hear, and I swallowed them hook line and sinker. I have had some other relationships over the years where I had women actively two-timing me while feeding me all the sweet platitudes in order to keep me off balance. So, you can understand why I did not want to open that floodgate by reading Sarah's texts or messages. Been there done that.
> 
> EDIT: It is possible she had been considering getting back together with her husband for some time. I was not aware of it, and I am pretty good at seeing signs. I tend to think the death of her MIL was the catalyst, and everything crashed down quickly after that. I think the reason she had such passionate sex with me that last time was because it was kind of her way of saying goodbye to me on some physical level, before dropping the bomb on me, or maybe it was manipulation. I will never know.


Very good perception based on your experience.


----------



## johndoe12299

ArthurGPym said:


> When I was splitting up with my first wife she said all the right things and all the things she thought I wanted to hear, and I swallowed them hook line and sinker. I have had some other relationships over the years where I had women actively two-timing me while feeding me all the sweet platitudes in order to keep me off balance. So, you can understand why I did not want to open that floodgate by reading Sarah's texts or messages. Been there done that.
> 
> EDIT: It is possible she had been considering getting back together with her husband for some time. I was not aware of it, and I am pretty good at seeing signs. I tend to think the death of her MIL was the catalyst, and everything crashed down quickly after that. I think the reason she had such passionate sex with me that last time was because it was kind of her way of saying goodbye to me on some physical level, before dropping the bomb on me, or maybe it was manipulation. I will never know.


My stbx did the same. Had very hot sex(oral, vag, anal) one night, then another round the next night...I was lke "damn, things are turning around!"...then D day was 2 days after...

When i asked her about all that she just said "i figured it would be the last time so i mustered up everything i could"...talk about a kick in the gut. WTF


----------



## marko polo

\


ArthurGPym said:


> When I was splitting up with my first wife she said all the right things and all the things she thought I wanted to hear, and I swallowed them hook line and sinker. I have had some other relationships over the years where I had women actively two-timing me while feeding me all the sweet platitudes in order to keep me off balance. So, you can understand why I did not want to open that floodgate by reading Sarah's texts or messages. Been there done that.
> 
> EDIT: It is possible she had been considering getting back together with her husband for some time. I was not aware of it, and I am pretty good at seeing signs. I tend to think the death of her MIL was the catalyst, and everything crashed down quickly after that. I think the reason she had such passionate sex with me that last time was because it was kind of her way of saying goodbye to me on some physical level, before dropping the bomb on me, or maybe it was manipulation. I will never know.


You should have no doubt it was manipulation on her part.

Think back to the funeral and how she kept you around like a purse while she was glued to her* former *husband's side. That was not respect she was showing you. Not your family and you came to offer her your support which proved to be wasted on her. She got upset when you left. She sees other people as props and possessions nothing more.

Think back to how quickly she cancelled the last date. You were an after thought, shelved.

Individuals like her do not respect other individuals or boundaries. You may have left a message to never contact you again but don't be surprised when she ignores it and darkens your doors step once more.

She came to your residence while you were on vacation. It is not like you didn't make your position clear, that you and her were done before you left. She returned to leave you a note where other normal or well adjusted individuals in her place would have already moved on.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Yes. She loved me until she didn’t love me anymore. Funny how some people can just turn it off. I really have a hard time understanding how she thought he was the better choice given the poor marriage she had, but a woman wants what a woman wants.


----------



## Evinrude58

accurate and concise observations concerning your narcissistic exgf by MP


----------



## johndoe12299

ArthurGPym said:


> Yes. She loved me until she didn’t love me anymore. Funny how some people can just turn it off. I really have a hard time understanding how she thought he was the better choice given the poor marriage she had, but a woman wants what a woman wants.


That's what troubled me the most; but i don't think it's the case. I think whether consciously or subconsciously the unhappiness is there, latent,builds up for a while and then there's a catalyst(meeting someone available and gives her attention) that sets the wheels in motion.


----------



## Openminded

Do you think in the beginning she was trying to make you jealous so you would propose?


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> Yes. She loved me until she didn’t love me anymore. Funny how some people can just turn it off. I really have a hard time understanding how she thought he was the better choice given the poor marriage she had, but a woman wants what a woman wants.


Narcissists don't love you or anyone else. They love only themselves.

They love other people like objects, possessions. This is how they are easily able to love you one moment and not the next. They discard you for the new shiny toy because they have no real emotional connection to you. They don't know how to love anyone.

A woman wants what a woman wants. In your unfortunate experience this is almost correct. A narcissist wants what a narcissist wants. They do not like to lose control of people or the associated narrative. They especially do not want to be the one discarded.

You my friend left on your terms, not hers. You discarded her. She wants to get back together with you only to break up with you on her terms.

Love, hate, drama, conflict are all excellent sources of fuel to an individual like her. Any further encounters or communications with her should prompt only one response from you. Cold silence. No fuel, no fire.


----------



## LATERILUS79

I don't know, Arthur.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm almost POSITIVE you got some healing at least one night in Spain. I think a dancer was involved.


----------



## manowar

ArthurGPym said:


> No, I'm just tired man.


This is age man. You are getting older and older guys basically don't care. Not like they did when they were younger. older guys aren't going to pursue. Because they don't give a crap. And they don't have it in them because that drive is knocked down a notch or two. that's all it takes. Women on the other hand don't seem to wake up. Many middle-aged women are still playing the game like they are in their prime years. They have been trained into this crappy behavior because men, weak men, have pandered to them for so long. You see this on OLD. 85% of middle-aged women OLD will never marry again because of their attitude. Some of the profiles from flat-out average middle-aged women are mind-blowing. 

I'm getting a vib that Sarah fits the Princess archytype. An archetype I'm well familiar with here in the northeast and one I have avoided since HS graduation. The princess sees herself as this great prize while the man always remains somewhat beneath her. the man is there to serve essentially. I believe that the Princess neurosis begins in childhood by being very spoiled by their fathers.


----------



## Andy1001

@ArthurGPym it doesn’t matter in the end. Whatever she wrote in her letter and her texts, whatever she wanted to say to you when she called to your house, it doesn’t matter. 
She treated you like **** and you showed and told her that you weren’t going to accept this. You weren’t going to be her fallback boy, her plan B.
That’s all that matters.
Everything else is just padding.
By the way your statement “wherever you are, there you are” is great advice for anyone.


----------



## Marc878

Andy1001 said:


> @ArthurGPym it doesn’t matter in the end. Whatever she wrote in her letter and her texts, whatever she wanted to say to you when she called to your house, it doesn’t matter.
> She treated you like **** and you showed and told her that you weren’t going to accept this. You weren’t going to be her fallback boy, her plan B.
> That’s all that matters.
> Everything else is just padding.
> By the way your statement “wherever you are, there you are” is great advice for anyone.


Exactly


----------



## mickybill

I hope that you don't take my opinion the wrong way but here goes...
In a room full of hammers you are going to get a lot of people seeing nails. There is a common bond we have on this site. Infidelity.

No one but Sarah knows what was in the letter or the texts. It may have been vindictive and cruel calling you names and accusing you of things that didn't happen, or it could have been a neutral, calm middle of the road apology, or a please forgive me "I love you". 

If my math is correct you said that you have been with over 100 women in 20 years, an average a new GF every 2.5 months, dude that is crazy!! You are looking for something that either you can't find or can't or don't want to commit to...That may be something work on.

All this burn the letters suggestions are sort of weird for grown ups to suggest fire will somehow cleanse the bad juju from her letter. Not reading it may show you care more than reading it..knowledge is power, OTOH if she handed you the letter and you pulled out a Zippo and lit up and dropped it at her feet then walked away that might be a strong FU.
You obviously are not yet at the indifferent stage that we eventually get to with ex wives or GF.

like I said this is just my opinion from afar.


----------



## Andy1001

mickybill said:


> I hope that you don't take my opinion the wrong way but here goes...
> In a room full of hammers you are going to get a lot of people seeing nails. There is a common bond we have on this site. Infidelity.
> 
> No one but Sarah knows what was in the letter or the texts. It may have been vindictive and cruel calling you names and accusing you of things that didn't happen, or it could have been a neutral, calm middle of the road apology, or a please forgive me "I love you".
> 
> If my math is correct you said that you have been with over 100 women in 20 years, an average a new GF every 2.5 months, dude that is crazy!! You are looking for something that either you can't find or can't or don't want to commit to...That may be something work on.
> 
> All this burn the letters suggestions are sort of weird for grown ups to suggest fire will somehow cleanse the bad juju from her letter. Not reading it may show you care more than reading it..knowledge is power, OTOH if she handed you the letter and you pulled out a Zippo and lit up and dropped it at her feet then walked away that might be a strong FU.
> You obviously are not yet at the indifferent stage that we eventually get to with ex wives or GF.
> 
> like I said this is just my opinion from afar.


What I took from Arthur’s post was that in twenty odd years he had slept with around twenty five women. 
No exactly man ***** figures I would think.


----------



## Kaliber

mickybill said:


> I hope that you don't take my opinion the wrong way but here goes...
> In a room full of hammers you are going to get a lot of people seeing nails. There is a common bond we have on this site. Infidelity.
> 
> No one but Sarah knows what was in the letter or the texts. It may have been vindictive and cruel calling you names and accusing you of things that didn't happen, or it could have been a neutral, calm middle of the road apology, or a please forgive me "I love you".
> 
> If my math is correct you said that you have been with over 100 women in 20 years, an average a new GF every 2.5 months, dude that is crazy!! You are looking for something that either you can't find or can't or don't want to commit to...That may be something work on.
> 
> All this burn the letters suggestions are sort of weird for grown ups to suggest fire will somehow cleanse the bad juju from her letter. Not reading it may show you care more than reading it..knowledge is power, OTOH if she handed you the letter and you pulled out a Zippo and lit up and dropped it at her feet then walked away that might be a strong FU.
> You obviously are not yet at the indifferent stage that we eventually get to with ex wives or GF.
> 
> like I said this is just my opinion from afar.


He was out with over a hundred women, that's normal, in 20 years, you could have 10 dates a month that doesn't go pass the first coffee date!
And he slept with close to a quarter of them, that's around 25 in 20 years, that's way below normal when you are searching for your perfect match and you're not in a committed relationship!
A quarter were worth pursuing to have at the least a mildly emotional and physical relationship with, in 20 years, that's also very normal!
I would say @ArthurGPym was taking it slow and being lazy 


ArthurGPym said:


> I have been out with well over a hundred women and slept with close to a quarter of them. Most were one-offs. A quarter were worth pursuing to have at the least a mildly emotional and physical relationship with


----------



## sideways

mickybill said:


> I hope that you don't take my opinion the wrong way but here goes...
> In a room full of hammers you are going to get a lot of people seeing nails. There is a common bond we have on this site. Infidelity.
> 
> No one but Sarah knows what was in the letter or the texts. It may have been vindictive and cruel calling you names and accusing you of things that didn't happen, or it could have been a neutral, calm middle of the road apology, or a please forgive me "I love you".
> 
> If my math is correct you said that you have been with over 100 women in 20 years, an average a new GF every 2.5 months, dude that is crazy!! You are looking for something that either you can't find or can't or don't want to commit to...That may be something work on.
> 
> All this burn the letters suggestions are sort of weird for grown ups to suggest fire will somehow cleanse the bad juju from her letter. Not reading it may show you care more than reading it..knowledge is power, OTOH if she handed you the letter and you pulled out a Zippo and lit up and dropped it at her feet then walked away that might be a strong FU.
> You obviously are not yet at the indifferent stage that we eventually get to with ex wives or GF.
> 
> like I said this is just my opinion from afar.


As kaliber pointed out, he's been on dates with 100 women over twenty years. That's FIVE per year on avg. Nothing "crazy" about this AT ALL. 

AP you just keep doing you as you're doing fine and you sure don't have to apologize to anyone here as for how you're handling things.

You do you!


----------



## farsidejunky

marko polo said:


> Narcissists don't love you or anyone else. They love only themselves.
> 
> They love other people like objects, possessions. This is how they are easily able to love you one moment and not the next. They discard you for the new shiny toy because they have no real emotional connection to you. They don't know how to love anyone.
> 
> A woman wants what a woman wants. In your unfortunate experience this is almost correct. A narcissist wants what a narcissist wants. They do not like to lose control of people or the associated narrative. They especially do not want to be the one discarded.
> 
> You my friend left on your terms, not hers. You discarded her. She wants to get back together with you only to break up with you on her terms.
> 
> Love, hate, drama, conflict are all excellent sources of fuel to an individual like her. Any further encounters or communications with her should prompt only one response from you. Cold silence. No fuel, no fire.


Actually, they don't love themselves. 

They actually loathe themselves, and most of their detrimental behavior is geared towards assuaging said loathing. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Evinrude58

Knowledge is power? Well I doubt he would glean any real knowledge from that letter other than script like cheater drivel that we’ve all seen a hundred times on here. What was she going to do that was unexpected, give him instructions on how to carry out cold fusion with an electric blender? I don’t think he missed anything.
Just sayin. 😊


----------



## Asterix

ArthurGPym said:


> No, I'm just tired man. You know, since I divorced my first cheating wife twenty something years ago, I have been out with well over a hundred women and slept with close to a quarter of them. Most were one-offs. A quarter were worth pursuing to have at the least a mildly emotional and physical relationship with, and I would say only five of those women were of a quality that I would consider marriageable. Five out of a hundred. Sarah was one of those,* and if even she couldn't go the distance, what does that bode for the majority of women I meet?* I am tired. I am discouraged. I am disgusted with the state of our society today. There are times when I get sick of having a d*#k. I have come to a place where I no longer believe in committed love. It is a terrible place to be.


I think this is similar to the gambler's fallacy. A gambler thinks that hey I've been playing for a long time and haven't won anything, so the next hand I plan is going to win me big. The problem is that usually the previous hand/bet's outcome has not baring on the next hand's outcome. 

Similarly, all those woman that you've dated and your experience with Sarah, does not have any baring on how the next woman will interact with you. That depends on her baggage, your baggage, how well you get along with etc. But your previous relationships do not have anything to do with it UNLESS if YOU bring it with you.


----------



## Asterix

ArthurGPym said:


> Yes, and I will call the cops. Any love for her that I once had has melted into hate.


And hopefully it'll soon morph into indifference towards her.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Asterix said:


> And hopefully it'll soon morph into indifference towards her.


Man it feels good the day you run into a mutual acquittance who wants to give you some dirt and you answer: "I Don't care!" and realize your heart actually aligns with your words. I cannot describe the feeling of freedom that brings.

Unfortunately if something similar occurs years later, that scar tissue is vulnerable to being ripped of, even if the next event is not close to being as serious as the first.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Double post


----------



## ArthurGPym

mickybill said:


> I hope that you don't take my opinion the wrong way but here goes...
> In a room full of hammers you are going to get a lot of people seeing nails. There is a common bond we have on this site. Infidelity.
> 
> No one but Sarah knows what was in the letter or the texts. It may have been vindictive and cruel calling you names and accusing you of things that didn't happen, or it could have been a neutral, calm middle of the road apology, or a please forgive me "I love you".
> 
> If my math is correct you said that you have been with over 100 women in 20 years, an average a new GF every 2.5 months, dude that is crazy!! You are looking for something that either you can't find or can't or don't want to commit to...That may be something work on.
> 
> All this burn the letters suggestions are sort of weird for grown ups to suggest fire will somehow cleanse the bad juju from her letter. Not reading it may show you care more than reading it..knowledge is power, OTOH if she handed you the letter and you pulled out a Zippo and lit up and dropped it at her feet then walked away that might be a strong FU.
> You obviously are not yet at the indifferent stage that we eventually get to with ex wives or GF.
> 
> like I said this is just my opinion from afar.


Fair opinion.

As to the first part: those approximate 100 women were mostly one-time dates. Only a handful made it to a second date, and Sarah was the only one in all these years with whom I can say I was in an actual "committed" or "exclusive" relationship. So hopefully that will clear that up for you. Yes, about 25 or so of those women I ended up in bed with, so I was getting laid an average of one+ a year. . That count doesn't include escorts I have been with, which were few and years between. Yeah, I have been with high-end call-girls. I make no apologies for it. (They are amazing by the way!)

I'm not really a man-ho. I don't see myself as a Lothario by any stretch. I'm a healthy heterosexual male with normal sexual urges. My two years I was with Sarah was the only time in two decades that I was having sex more than twice a week.

I agree that only Sarah knows what was in those letters, but I doubt she was having enough self awareness to accurately tell me the whole truth about her motives. I think most of what she had to say were excuses and platitudes. I want neither.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Barb's husband called me this morning and we are arranging a golf game at Troon in a couple months. He asked me how Spain was and we had a pleasant conversation about that. The subject of Sarah didn't come up. So I am glad that I have made a friend who is keeping his nose out of this whole mess and not telling me gossip.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ArthurGPym said:


> Barb's husband called me this morning and we are arranging a golf game at Troon in a couple months. He asked me how Spain was and we had a pleasant conversation about that. The subject of Sarah didn't come up. So I am glad that I have made a friend who is keeping his nose out of this whole mess and not telling me gossip.


I'm glad for those friends, they are the real treasure.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Fair opinion.
> 
> As to the first part: those approximate 100 women were mostly one-time dates. Only a handful made it to a second date, and Sarah was the only one in all these years with whom I can say I was in an actual "committed" or "exclusive" relationship. So hopefully that will clear that up for you. Yes, about 25 or so of those women I ended up in bed with, so I was getting laid an average of one+ a year. . That count doesn't include escorts I have been with, which were few and years between. Yeah, I have been with high-end call-girls. I make no apologies for it. (They are amazing by the way!)
> 
> I'm not really a man-ho. I don't see myself as a Lothario by any stretch. I'm a healthy heterosexual male with normal sexual urges. My two years I was with Sarah was the only time in two decades that I was having sex more than twice a week.
> 
> I agree that only Sarah knows what was in those letters, but I doubt she was having enough self awareness to accurately tell me the whole truth about her motives. I think most of what she had to say were excuses and platitudes. I want neither.


Yep, BS and excuses. It would have been a waste of your time. Her actions told you everything you needed to know.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

@ArthurGPym , I love guitar. I'd really love to hear something you've played. I'd even go as far as to post something I've done. I could never do it live like you have been able to do, this is the result of all 3 of my guitars and a Midi Keyboard with a VST guitar combined and not even close to anything an actual guitar player like yourself would be capable of, but I feel I have to break the ice for you to share something with us:


My take on American Pie

Please play us something. I really want to hear you perform.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Dictum Veritas said:


> @ArthurGPym , I love guitar. I'd really love to hear something you've played. I'd even go as far as to post something I've done. I could never do it live like you have been able to do, this is the result of all 3 of my guitars and a Midi Keyboard with a VST guitar combined and not even close to anything an actual guitar player like yourself would be capable of, but I feel I have to break the ice for you to share something with us:
> 
> 
> My take on American Pie
> 
> Please play us something. I really want to hear you perform.


Fantastic! Yes I will do a recording or dig through some of my old tapes and see if I can upload something.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ArthurGPym said:


> Fantastic! Yes I will do a recording or dig through some of my old tapes and see if I can upload something.


Please do I. look forward to donning my earphones and listening to you play.


----------



## ArthurGPym

A simple one. I'm a low intermediate student. 


Gofile - Free file sharing and storage platform


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ArthurGPym said:


> A simple one. I'm a low intermediate student.
> 
> 
> Gofile - Free file sharing and storage platform


Simple? Nope, not in the least. This you did in a single track on a single guitar and you did it right now. Mine was done over a couple of days, laying down a couple of tracks. I take my hat of to you.

Thank you for sharing. Your trip t o Spain was definitely not a waste. Do yo mind if I downloaded your performance to my computer for personal listening in future?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Sure


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ArthurGPym said:


> Sure


Thank you very much. You obviously have the same permission from me should you wish.


----------



## manowar

the famous funeral episode is classic sh+tty female behavior. we've all been there at one time or another. I think it comes down to that she did it because she thought she could get away with it -- nothing more. She expected no reaction. clearly selfish behavior. How many guys would have just mopped along and let it go? My bet is a lot of them. A bunch of nice guys well on their way to doormats. that's what princess' expect. Women are shocked to find out that the supposed nice guy isn't a nice guy after all. 

I'm also betting that this wasn't her first act of bad/questionable behavior but the final straw. There had to be a few priors in order for you to access her true character with the final breach.


----------



## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> A simple one. I'm a low intermediate student.
> 
> 
> Gofile - Free file sharing and storage platform


Legit. 👍🏻


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ArthurGPym said:


> Sure


I've listened to your playing a couple of times now. This is technically a seriously difficult piece. I can say with 100% conviction that I am jealous of your skills. Never stop playing.


----------



## ElwoodPDowd

ArthurGPym said:


> I think I want to play it cool and not chase her. I'm going to back off and see if she chases me or comes after me to know why I am not kissing her ass.


Forget her, it was only ever casual sex.
Don't call her, don't chase, but if she offers more casual sex just enjoy the moment, it's free.
It was a big mistake on your part to ever get involved with activities concerning her ex's family.


----------



## manwithnoname

ArthurGPym said:


> A simple one. I'm a low intermediate student.
> 
> 
> Gofile - Free file sharing and storage platform


Steel or nylon? It sounded like steel to me, although my laptop's sound makes it difficult to tell.

Well done.


----------



## sideways

Very impressed!!


----------



## Amanhasnoname

ArthurGPym said:


> Yes. She loved me until she didn’t love me anymore. Funny how some people can just turn it off. I really have a hard time understanding how she thought he was the better choice given the poor marriage she had, but a woman wants what a woman wants.


You did absolutely the right thing AGP.
You have behaved impeccably throughout. No begging or 'Pick me dancing'... a lesson in how to behave.
I raise my hat to you sir.


----------



## ArthurGPym

manwithnoname said:


> Steel or nylon? It sounded like steel to me, although my laptop's sound makes it difficult to tell.
> 
> Well done.


Savarez Tomatito standard tension nylons on a 1981 Ramirez 1a.


----------



## Lostinthought61

ArthurGPym said:


> Yes, and I will call the cops. Any love for her that I once had has melted into hate.


it is when that hate becomes indifference that you will truly be healed


----------



## ArthurGPym

So I am thinking about winding this thread down. I really have no more to tell you guys. I can start another thread in another forum if there are any updates. I don't think there will be any further updates worthy of your attention. I am moving towards indifference but it may take some time. I understand that. Thank you all for your immeasurable wisdom and compassion. I would have been in a much darker place without all the help and advice I received here. I will continue to support this website and I will chime in on other peoples threads to offer help where I can. I'm not quitting the site, just winding this thread down.


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym, this thread will go down as an example of "Those who move through it with action": Those who move through it with action.

I'm glad you where able to extricate yourself from a bad situation.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ArthurGPym said:


> So I am thinking about winding this thread down. I really have no more to tell you guys. I can start another thread in another forum if there are any updates. I don't think there will be any further updates worthy of your attention. I am moving towards indifference but it may take some time. I understand that. Thank you all for your immeasurable wisdom and compassion. I would have been in a much darker place without all the help and advice I received here. I will continue to support this website and I will chime in on other peoples threads to offer help where I can. I'm not quitting the site, just winding this thread down.


We all hate pain, but you being an artistic soul, may have gained in your art through it. I hope however that you walk into a shop tomorrow, trip and fall into the most stunning woman who finds you irresistible and you her. I'd have you start a life with her and forget any notion of loneliness.

It's a fantasy for sure, but it's a hope I can express for you, since I think after all this, you can use it, but even in the absence of that, I wish you a happy life.


----------



## Davit Bek

ArthurGPym said:


> Not really. Just tired. Today I feel kind of defeated. I'm not sure why. Just hollow.


You acted decisively and did the difficult but the right thing. If that's not being an absolute unit, I don't know what is. I read this entire thread today, and I have to say you conducted yourself with strength, honor, and integrity. This is for sure a very inspiring post, showing how you remove yourself from petty games, and act righteously regardless of how you feel. I truly wish you the best ArthurGPym. I have no doubt you have left a mark on the boys that you served as role model for. Something they desperately need. Not that it matters, but I have no doubt, that woman will regret her mistake and always remember you, albeit with sadness. Not that it matters. I know you'll be ok, and I hope you find a suitable partner. You deserve the best.


----------



## sideways

Have you had any contact with her son?


----------



## ArthurGPym

sideways said:


> Have you had any contact with her son?


No. As it should be.


----------



## Cuobs

.


----------



## sideways

ArthurGPym said:


> No. As it should be.


So if he reaches out to you are you going to ignore him?


----------



## ArthurGPym

sideways said:


> So if he reaches out to you are you going to ignore him?


Not at all, but I would imagine he has probably been barred by his parents from contacting me.


----------



## sideways

ArthurGPym said:


> Not at all, but I would imagine he has probably been barred by his parents from contacting me.


Agree with you on this


----------



## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> Not at all, but I would imagine he has probably been barred by his parents from contacting me.


Just had a random thought — I wonder if the letter she left included a check to reimburse you for what you spent on the guitar for her kid. 🤔


----------



## sideways

GusPolinski said:


> Just had a random thought — I wonder if the letter she left included a check to reimburse you for what you spent on the guitar for her kid. 🤔


Interesting. Will never know but again Interesting.


----------



## Blondilocks

GusPolinski said:


> Just had a random thought — I wonder if the letter she left included a check to reimburse you for what you spent on the guitar for her kid. 🤔


LOL. Yeah, riiiight...


----------



## ArthurGPym

GusPolinski said:


> Just had a random thought — I wonder if the letter she left included a check to reimburse you for what you spent on the guitar for her kid. 🤔


I'll never know. I doubt it. The cost was well over $1,200.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Like I’ve said before, Arthur. I think it’d be cool if the kid contacted you on his 18th birthday as a newly minted adult to let you know the 2 years you spent as a male mentor for him were awesome.


----------



## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> I'll never know. I doubt it. The cost was well over $1,200.


I’ve got my eye on a new Strat or Tele. Haven’t owned an electric in over 20 years.


----------



## ccpowerslave

GusPolinski said:


> I’ve got my eye on a new Strat or Tele. Haven’t owned an electric in over 20 years.


Can’t go wrong with either and you can get a nice one for not much money. The Mexican factory ones are pretty decent.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Yes the Ensenada-made Fenders are very good. They are called the "player" series. I have a Mexican made Jimmie Vaughan Stratocaster that I have had for almost 15 years and it is awesome.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> Like I’ve said before, Arthur. I think it’d be cool if the kid contacted you on his 18th birthday as a newly minted adult to let you know the 2 years you spent as a male mentor for him were awesome.


That would be neat, but I won't hold out hope. I just wish the best for him and his brother.


----------



## GusPolinski

We should start a guitar thread over in social.


----------



## ArthurGPym

GusPolinski said:


> We should start a guitar thread over in social.


Let's.....


----------



## Beach123

I can’t help but wonder if the exH stands to inherit a bunch of money once his mother died.

It may be why she was willing to pay so much attention to her exH after the mother died.

Did she seem like the gold digger type?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Beach123 said:


> I can’t help but wonder if the exH stands to inherit a bunch of money once his mother died.
> 
> It may be why she was willing to pay so much attention to her exH after the mother died.
> 
> Did she seem like the gold digger type?


No. Her MIL was not wealthy. Most of the money MIL had was tied up in her husband's care. It is a great irony that the FIL, who suffers from severe dementia, is still among the living. I think the MIL wore herself out caring for her husband. 

I think Sarah and her ex-husband-now-boyfriend and she have a codependent relationship. I like to think that when she was with me she was showing the best parts of what she could be, and her ex-now-boyfriend will be getting what he threw away in the first place. I don't get it. Dogs return to their vomit, no?


----------



## Marc878

Yes and no one can fix that. She obviously can’t either. They are what they are.


----------



## Openminded

I think it’s very likely they have reverted back to their old relationship. When it ends again, she’ll be back


----------



## Beach123

Co dependent or not - she is a purposeful jerk who expected you to be ok with being treated terribly in front of a lot of people.

I’d literally have a few choice words for her. It’s not ok that she treated you like her doormat!


----------



## ElOtro

Marc878 said:


> Love is not enough. Respect, loyalty, being honest and trustworthy count too.


While I agree with you I also don´t.
IMO respect, loyalty, being honest, trustworthy and having enough courage are inseparable part of love or it´s no more than a feeling.


----------



## ElOtro

ccpowerslave said:


> What’s love, but a second hand emotion?


You may be right though I doubt you are.
If what you say is true, love means a little bit less than nothing.
I hope it´s not.


----------



## ElOtro

ArthurGPym said:


> Nothing. She has shown me who she is. I guess she could go back in time and tell her ex-husband to bury his own mom himself. But that would disrupt the space time continuum wouldn't it?


Don´t forget to tel me how if you get to know it, please.


----------



## ElOtro

fluffycoco said:


> Maybe she is not with ex anymore. Read it and get back together.


I hope thay you aren´t being serious.


----------



## Livvie

ElOtro said:


> You may be right though I doubt you are.
> If what you say is true, love means a little bit less than nothing.
> I hope it´s not.


He was just singin a song.. .


----------



## ElOtro

Livvie said:


> He was just singin a song.. .


Sorry. 
My english is not always enough if sometimes is.
And was not a song I knew.
I stand corrected.
And thank you a lot!


----------



## jlg07

ElOtro said:


> Sorry.
> My english is not always enough if sometimes is.
> And was not a song I knew.
> I stand corrected.
> And thank you a lot!


I was Tina Tuner --- what's love got to do with it:


----------



## ElOtro

jlg07 said:


> I was Tina Tuner --- what's love got to do with it:


Thank you so much!


----------



## ArthurGPym

Well I blame myself for assuming because I helped her and her sons out a lot, did lots of nice things for her, and showed her consistent love and affection that I should expect to receive the same treatment in return. I guess in this day and age that is old fashioned thinking. The more I pay attention to social media the more I realize how I am not cut out for the 21st Century. I find myself ensconcing myself in my house, rarely going out, just hanging out with my music and my dog and letting the rest of the world go on without me.


----------



## lifeistooshort

It's not required that you participate in social media.

Just saying.


----------



## Livvie

ArthurGPym said:


> Well I blame myself for assuming because I helped her and her sons out a lot, did lots of nice things for her, and showed her consistent love and affection that I should expect to receive the same treatment in return. I guess in this day and age that is old fashioned thinking. The more I pay attention to social media the more I realize how I am not cut out for the 21st Century. I find myself ensconcing myself in my house, rarely going out, just hanging out with my music and my dog and letting the rest of the world go on without me.


It's not old fashioned thinking. It's just that you chose a bad one, choosing this woman. 

There were red flags early on. There are nice women out there who are looking for something mutual who would never do what she did.


----------



## sideways

lifeistooshort said:


> It's not required that you participate in social media.
> 
> Just saying.


Exactly!!

You don't have to do Instagram or Twitter or Facebook. I sure don't!

You're a good guy and by staying home you're not living life to the fullest. It doesn't mean that every time you go out you're on the hunt looking for women.

Nope. Just go out and do the things you enjoy. You're into music. Why not go check out some live music. Doesn't have to be Stadiums but smaller venues where you listen to jazz, blues, or any other type of music you enjoy.

Go check out music stores and look through vinyl albums etc. What other interests do you have? Go do these things because you enjoy it.

Don't let this past experience keep you from living your life to the fullest. So you got hurt. I get it....all of us will be at some point. Just because she did you wrong doesn't mean that every woman will. There's women out there who would cherish having a guy like you in their life but you got to be willing to get back out there.

Don't let fear of getting hurt again keep you from living your life. Remember you only get one life so CARPE DIEM!!

You might just meet some women while doing these things you enjoy and if you don't no biggie because you were doing something you like!!

When you're ready you'll get back out there and start putting yourself out there (dating). What about this couple you're friends with? Sarah's so called friend and her husband. They think highly of you....maybe they know someone who you may hit it off with.

The experience with Sarah was just one chapter of your life. Turn the page and see what's around the corner because you never know.

Love that last scene in the movie "Cast away" (at the crossroads out in the country after dropping off that FedEx package to that lady).

Also:
"Who knows what tomorrow will bring".

"Got to keep on breathing".


----------



## Marc878

I cut Fakebook years ago. Never missed it.


----------



## TDSC60

Don't waste time over the illogical actions of damaged people. You will never understand or come to an logical acceptable explanation for their actions.

If you don't feel like interacting with people, then don't. There is nothing wrong in keeping your own company and counsel.


----------



## ccpowerslave

I only keep Facebook around for messenger in case someone (usually a former co-worker) wants to contact me.

I stopped paying attention to LinkedIn for a few years and then fired it up about a month ago and found out one of my old roommates had died. That sucked.


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> Well I blame myself for assuming because I helped her and her sons out a lot, did lots of nice things for her, and showed her consistent love and affection that I should expect to receive the same treatment in return. I guess in this day and age that is old fashioned thinking. The more I pay attention to social media the more I realize how I am not cut out for the 21st Century. I find myself ensconcing myself in my house, rarely going out, just hanging out with my music and my dog and letting the rest of the world go on without me.


Just something to think about. When I was dating my wife, I too was the "old fashioned" courter. After about 3 months though, I stopped doing lots of things for her. It was because I thought very highly of her, but also thought highly of myself and wanted to see how she would respond to a halt of my creating all the fun.

I shifted to a modest dating rhythm that featured popcorn and HBO on my apartment couch for two months straight. No concerts, festivals, day trips and the like, of which Washington D.C. had so much to offer. Would her willingness to be with me wane or remain the same? I wanted to know because after having dating countless women, I knew what was sustainable and healthy and went through the steps of eliminating those unable to be with me without conditions I created. 

Why? Because I know married life is full of boring stretches, monotony and valleys, so I artificially created a period to see what she was made of when the festivals and fun weren't present. I reasoned, *if* we're going to be together it's not going to be because of me wining, dining and creating a standard doesn't fit normal life. It would be because we just wanted to be with one another and can be satisfied just with that by itself.

Personally, I thought we were both ready to transition from our short term relationship to a potential long term one. She passed with flying colors and nine months later I asked her dad for her daughter's hand. She gave it to me and I still have it 25 years later. This is not a fool proof dating method by any stretch. I could do the exact same thing with another woman, who turns into a serial cheater. Turns out, my instincts were right and she's still exactly as she was back then. Luck has something to do with great relationships. One can do all the right things and still get a lemon.


----------



## Sfort

ArthurGPym said:


> Yes the Ensenada-made Fenders are very good. They are called the "player" series. I have a Mexican made Jimmie Vaughan Stratocaster that I have had for almost 15 years and it is awesome.


<TJ> Would we ever have heard of Jimmie but for Stevie Ray? </TJ>


----------



## ArthurGPym

Sfort said:


> <TJ> Would we ever have heard of Jimmie but for Stevie Ray? </TJ>


I had heard of the Fab Thunderbirds back in '82 or '83. Then I heard SRV come out and was blown away, but then I thought "Hmmm....Vaugh... Vaugh...."🙄 So I went and looked on a Fab T-Birds record I had and saw Jimmie. So I figured there was some connection.


----------



## sideways

Sfort said:


> <TJ> Would we ever have heard of Jimmie but for Stevie Ray? </TJ>


"We"?

Growing up in Texas and the music scene in Austin (and around the state), Jimmy and the T Birds were well known here, and Stevie had nothing to do with it.


----------



## ccpowerslave

sideways said:


> "We"?
> 
> Growing up in Texas and the music scene in Austin (and around the state), Jimmy and the T Birds were well known here, and Stevie had nothing to do with it.


Tuff Enuff was played on MTV way more than anything from SRV if my memory holds up.


----------



## ArthurGPym

F*ck....

Last night Sarah's oldest boy ran away from home. Her friend called me frantic and begged me to come help them, as if for some reason they thought I would know where he was. I called him. He answered. I drove to where he was. The stupid kid had taken an Uber from Oceanside all the way to La Jolla where he thought one of his friends would be waiting for him. Of course the equally stupid friend was nowhere to be found. I talked to him for a while, got him calmed down, and then drove him home to his mom's house. I called the friend back and told her we were coming. A cop and a crowd of about fifteen friends and family were there including Sarah and her ex. Jesus H.... 

I didn't stay longer than I needed to. I hugged the boy and told him it was going to be alright and then I just hopped back in my truck and took off. No talking to anyone. Sarah called to me but I ignored her. I ran like a raped ape y'all. My phone has been blowing up all day with calls from numbers I don't know and I have been ignoring them. I can't escape it. I don't have the emotional strength for this. I feel like Michael Corleone in Godfather 3. No matter how hard I try to get out they just keep sucking me back in.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Gah…


----------



## ArthurGPym

ccpowerslave said:


> Gah…


All day I've been mulling over whether or not I wanted to post it. Most are going to flame me.


----------



## Harold Demure

What do they want from you? You responded to their requests for help, you found the lad, picked him up and returned him home safely.

You, presumably, had no part in his running away and you are not in a position to say why he left.

Well done for what you did. The only question they should be asking you is what is your preferred drink of choice so we can buy you a case of it.

I wouldn’t get sucked into the drama.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> All day I've been mulling over whether or not I wanted to post it. Most are going to flame me.


Flame you for what, being a good human being and caring about the kid? You absolutely did the right thing, kind of saved the day really. Sarah is so effing stupid. I wonder if she really understands what she gave up.


----------



## Captain Obvious

ArthurGPym said:


> All day I've been mulling over whether or not I wanted to post it. Most are going to flame me.


You helped the kid because you're a good man, but no good deed goes unpunished. I think you would be regretting it if you didn't try to help him.


----------



## Hurthusband77

I haven’t posted to your thread or very many on TAM, but I’ve lurked for a long, long time.

Arthurgpym, you sound like a great guy, and you helped out a family in need, good for you. I don’t think anyone should flame you over your actions. You handled it great. It seems pretty obvious to me that her son holds you in high regard and that he probably doesn’t have that mature, decent man to look up to. 

You have handled this situation very, very well IMHO.


----------



## ccpowerslave

ArthurGPym said:


> All day I've been mulling over whether or not I wanted to post it. Most are going to flame me.


Helping resolve this situation is only worthy of praise. The “Gah.” is for the litany of crap that was lighting up your phone afterwards.

BTW, it says a lot about you and the impact you had on this kid’s life that he picked up when you called and ignored everyone else. That is special.


----------



## sideways

Don't beat yourself up at all.

This was NOT about Sarah. Nope!!

This was about her son. I'm sure Sarah, his father, and countless others called him and he ignored all of their calls and thus why they were frantic not knowing where he was.

That said when you called him he picked up the phone and told YOU where he was. Not his own freakin mother nor his own father.

Embarrassed??

I know you didn't want to be involved in this, but for the boys sake you should feel glad that you were and it should say a great deal to you that this young man trusted you more than his own mother and father.

Listen, Sarah pulled some **** on you, and it sucked and it broke your heart. However, don't let her messed up $h!t cloud who you are and the gifts God gave you.

You are a guy who has a huge loving heart and you're there for the people you love. Sarah may or may not have truly grasped this but her son sure as heck didn't. That's why he picked up the phone when you called.

Arthur, I get your heart was broken, but it appears you're retreating from life, and you've put up walls around you with the intent of protecting you from getting hurt again. I get it...we all do!!

By not putting your heart out there you definitely can protect yourself from experiencing pain again but you're also ensuring that you won't be experiencing the fruit of life and more importantly love.

Every man dies but not every man lives!!

I know it hasn't been too long since the BS with Sarah. Please reconsider letting the walls come down in due time. Don't just go through the motions of life. By closing yourself off you're not hurting or getting back at Sarah. Ultimately you're the one who will be missing out on so many things.

Everyone who's read your thread can see you're a really good guy. Embrace this and be proud of who you are and in due time Get back out there and be willing to put your heart out there.

And quit being SO [email protected] hard on yourself!!


----------



## Asterix

@ArthurGPym I think you are a great standup guy and you did a good deed yesterday. 

Don't worry about Sarah, this is not about her. What you did yesterday shows how strong of a bond you have with her kids. You were there for the kid when he needed someone. 

If I may suggest one thing to you, it is that, after this whole kerfuffle dies down, please give him a call to do a wellness check and also to let him know that you will always be there for him. So, if he wants someone to talk to, he can always give you a call.


----------



## Rob_1

sideways said:


> Don't beat yourself up at all.
> 
> This was NOT about Sarah. Nope!!
> 
> This was about her son. I'm sure Sarah, his father, and countless others called him and he ignored all of their calls and thus why they were frantic not knowing where he was.
> 
> That said when you called him he picked up the phone and told YOU where he was. Not his own freakin mother nor his own father.
> 
> Embarrassed??
> 
> I know you didn't want to be involved in this, but for the boys sake you should feel glad that you were and it should say a great deal to you that this young man trusted you more than his own mother and father.
> 
> Listen, Sarah pulled some **** on you, and it sucked and it broke your heart. However, don't let her messed up $h!t cloud who you are and the gifts God gave you.
> 
> You are a guy who has a huge loving heart and you're there for the people you love. Sarah may or may not have truly grasped this but her son sure as heck didn't. That's why he picked up the phone when you called.
> 
> Arthur, I get your heart was broken, but it appears you're retreating from life, and you've put up walls around you with the intent of protecting you from getting hurt again. I get it...we all do!!
> 
> By not putting your heart out there you definitely can protect yourself from experiencing pain again but you're also ensuring that you won't be experiencing the fruit of life and more importantly love.
> 
> Every man dies but not every man lives!!
> 
> I know it hasn't been too long since the BS with Sarah. Please reconsider letting the walls come down in due time. Don't just go through the motions of life. By closing yourself off you're not hurting or getting back at Sarah. Ultimately you're the one who will be missing out on so many things.
> 
> Everyone who's read your thread can see you're a really good guy. Embrace this and be proud of who you are and in due time Get back out there and be willing to put your heart out there.
> 
> And quit being SO [email protected] hard on yourself!!


*
This for emphasis* 

_Arthur: _Re-read @sideways post. He's so right. Live life my friend, and if you need to look back let it be to remember the good and the bad as what made you the good man you are now.


----------



## SRCSRC

You certainly did the right thing in stepping in and taking the boy home. Did he tell you why he ran away from home? Sideways gives good advice. I would consider it.


----------



## jlg07

ArthurGPym said:


> F*ck....
> 
> Last night Sarah's oldest boy ran away from home. Her friend called me frantic and begged me to come help them, as if for some reason they thought I would know where he was. I called him. He answered. I drove to where he was. The stupid kid had taken an Uber from Oceanside all the way to La Jolla where he thought one of his friends would be waiting for him. Of course the equally stupid friend was nowhere to be found. I talked to him for a while, got him calmed down, and then drove him home to his mom's house. I called the friend back and told her we were coming. A cop and a crowd of about fifteen friends and family were there including Sarah and her ex. Jesus H....
> 
> I didn't stay longer than I needed to. I hugged the boy and told him it was going to be alright and then I just hopped back in my truck and took off. No talking to anyone. Sarah called to me but I ignored her. I ran like a raped ape y'all. My phone has been blowing up all day with calls from numbers I don't know and I have been ignoring them. I can't escape it. I don't have the emotional strength for this. I feel like Michael Corleone in Godfather 3. No matter how hard I try to get out they just keep sucking me back in.


You did EXACTLY the right thing for that kid. DO NOT second guess yourself. You did this because a) you are a good guy who knows to do the right thing (unlike that kids mother) and b) you liked the kid and had bonded. 
Think about this -- he TRUSTED YOU enough to answer the phone and then talk to you. He didn't do that for his mom, his dad, or anyone else.
You did the right thing by him. YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. Think about what could have happened to that kid.

YES, it puts you back a little bit in Sarah's orbit, but honestly, think that it was just a slingshot manuever -- NOT staying there.


----------



## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> All day I've been mulling over whether or not I wanted to post it. Most are going to flame me.


Nah man. You did good.

Heve you considered changing your phone number(s)? No reason you couldn’t give your new number to the kid with instructions that he not share it.


----------



## Beach123

Good job helping with the boy. Sara is an idiot and continues to be an idiot.
Did the boy say why he ran away? I hope you had a few minutes to have a lasting positive impact on his mindset.

Sounds like you all aren’t far from my area. Sara better become a better parent - the area is full of trouble young kids can find.


----------



## Marc878

Now just back gracefully away. And stay away.
You are right to ignore.


----------



## Openminded

You did a good thing. But it’s obviously better for you to stay away from that situation. She’ll probably show up again now so be prepared.


----------



## ononvandersexx

That poor kid. Thought he escaped the dysfunction, found someone he could trust and relate to, and then momma blows it up. You did well op, even though it hurts like a mother ****er


----------



## mickybill

Seriously dude, you were the hero who rode in to find the kid and save the day...
Then to drop him off and go about your day was perfect...I hope that you had on a white stetson to tip to the crowd. Her family and friends were probably asking who was the guy who found the kid, why that was Sarah's ex...And she dumped him for the ex husband ...hmmm.


----------



## TriX

A measure of a person, is not who the person trusts, but who trusts the person.

That should help you sleep well at night.


----------



## Chillidog

Well done


----------



## Blondilocks

Knowing that he could have used his phone to call an Uber to take him home, I'm guessing that you had to talk him into going home.

Seeing how Sarah turned this little do-si-do into an all out ballroom extravaganza tells you that she thrives on drama. You are much, much better off without her. I feel sorry for the kids.

I applaud you for just dropping the kid off and not getting involved.


----------



## Landofblue

Well done. I know this stirred up a lot of feelings. But know we think you are doing well and are pretty much a badass when it comes to handling things with your ex. 

Hoping you have some good people IRL to hang out with this weekend.

How have things been on the dating front? Or are you not ready for that yet? Anyway, please know we all think you did great. 

Did the young man share what he was struggling with? He’s lucky to have you…


----------



## pastasauce79

Thank you for helping the kid! You might not realize it, but you saved his life! Who knows where the kid could have ended up without your help!

The kid knows it in his gut who he can trust. 

Did he say why he ran away?


----------



## Blondilocks

If the kid's father's ego doesn't take a hit, he isn't human. He probably feels about as useful as a used Kleenex.


----------



## Gabriel

That sucks for all involved. You did the right thing. There is no way you ignore this and be a robot.

Don't even give this a second thought.


----------



## Taxman

Art, there is no way on earth that I could flame you or disrespect you in any way. Out of everyone, you were level headed, forgot all about the hurt his mom laid on you, went out and did the MAN thing. She now sees what she threw away. One good strong man, to be replaced by a toddler who needs his diaper changed regularly. She probably went back because of habit. I have known several divorced women who screwed themselves out of a decent life because they could not drop the ex like a bad habit. Best friend was on the verge of marrying a woman who had escaped a horrible marriage. As soon as they got serious, the XH conveniently dropped out of the sky with another of his myriad problems. My BF, like you Arthur, dropped her and moved on. She made a very wrong decision in going back to her ex, as he had developed a new set of problems, one of them being violence. First time his ex called him to tell him that her XH had beaten her, he said that maybe you should not go back to the scene of the crime, and maybe you should recognize who is toxic in your life and who isn't, in any event, I am no longer interested in being your knight in shining armor, you gave up any rights to that when you threw me over for your assailant. He received occasional calls for about a decade, whic here ignored. They stopped and started periodically.

One further thought, when you made your hasty exit, I bet someone walked up to Sarah, smacked her arm and said, "Do you see what the hell you threw away?" That is why your phone is blowing up with calls from unrecognized numbers, my bet is that she got the severe wakeup. Yeah her XH stood there like a bump on a log, while ArthurGPym fixed the situation. She is welcome to the wimp, but bet nobody likes him or wants him to be with her.


----------



## Marc878

It doesn’t matter much what Sarah realizes. She is what she is and that will never change.


----------



## ArthurGPym

GusPolinski said:


> Nah man. You did good.
> 
> Heve you considered changing your phone number(s)? No reason you couldn’t give your new number to the kid with instructions that he not share it.


To change my phone numbers would mess me up in so many ways. I'm a day trader and I have several brokers who I call regularly, and then I have my friends and relatives. It's sounds like a great idea but it would just cause too many headaches. Sarah has been good about not not calling me. It was one of her friends who called me because she knew the boy trusts me. 



Beach123 said:


> Good job helping with the boy. Sara is an idiot and continues to be an idiot.
> Did the boy say why he ran away? I hope you had a few minutes to have a lasting positive impact on his mindset.
> 
> Sounds like you all aren’t far from my area. Sara better become a better parent - the area is full of trouble young kids can find.


He and his dad got in a big fight. They simply do not like each other. It is a mutual dislike. I have no doubt his dad loves him but they lost their ability to communicate. The boy told me his mom and dad are back to fighting like the old days and that nothing really changed. They were nice to each other for a while but went back to the way they had been pre-affair. 



Marc878 said:


> Now just back gracefully away. And stay away.
> You are right to ignore.


I am. 



Openminded said:


> You did a good thing. But it’s obviously better for you to stay away from that situation. She’ll probably show up again now so be prepared.


No I doubt it. She won't come around. She tried that once while I was gone and that didn't work. She has too much pride to do it again. 



Blondilocks said:


> Knowing that he could have used his phone to call an Uber to take him home, I'm guessing that you had to talk him into going home.


For the most part. I had to talk to him for a while to get him to calm down. He tried to spend the night at his friend's house but his mom wouldn't let him. She didn't want any trouble. So I was able to make him see reason and he finally told me where he was. 



Landofblue said:


> Well done. I know this stirred up a lot of feelings. But know we think you are doing well and are pretty much a badass when it comes to handling things with your ex.
> 
> Hoping you have some good people IRL to hang out with this weekend.
> 
> How have things been on the dating front? Or are you not ready for that yet? Anyway, please know we all think you did great.
> 
> Did the young man share what he was struggling with? He’s lucky to have you…


Yeah we had a good long talk. 

No I'm not dating.


----------



## Gabriel

Sarah likely already realizes what an enormous mistake going back to her exH was. 

But you've sent very clear signals that she is not welcome back in your life, so she's stuck.

This incident just made her even more regretful and she's probably MISERABLE


----------



## LATERILUS79

I said it before, Arthur. You should call this boy on his 18th birthday. Be friends with him. 


This boy is gonna be your legacy. I fully understand your explanation of how you want to live your life right now. I get it. I don't knock it. There are just so many damn crap parents out there reproducing and replacing themselves with more horrible people. You have an opportunity here to mentor this boy. He trusts you with his life. This is especially huge as our society looks down upon fathers and the number of good men left continues to dwindle. You can change that for this kid. I mean, you already have. You know this kid wants to be a part of your life. 

I don't know. Just something to think about.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Gabriel said:


> Sarah likely already realizes what an enormous mistake going back to her exH was.
> 
> But you've sent very clear signals that she is not welcome back in your life, so she's stuck.
> 
> This incident just made her even more regretful and she's probably MISERABLE


Meh. I don't know. She's a very attractive woman. Even if she and her ex do break up, she won't stay single for long. She's a master of that female art of maximizing her resources. I have no doubt she will latch on to a new man quickly.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> I said it before, Arthur. You should call this boy on his 18th birthday. Be friends with him.
> 
> 
> This boy is gonna be your legacy. I fully understand your explanation of how you want to live your life right now. I get it. I don't knock it. There are just so many damn crap parents out there reproducing and replacing themselves with more horrible people. You have an opportunity here to mentor this boy. He trusts you with his life. This is especially huge as our society looks down upon fathers and the number of good men left continues to dwindle. You can change that for this kid. I mean, you already have. You know this kid wants to be a part of your life.
> 
> I don't know. Just something to think about.


I'd love to be his big brother. There is no way to do it unless I do it clandestinely. I already know his dad resents the hell out of me, and that in turn causes more friction between the ex and Sarah. So for now, any influence I have on that kid is going to just make his home life more of a hell to him. I texted him this morning to see if he was okay and he said he is. His dad is staying at his own place this week instead of Sarah's, so they can both cool down. But the boy resented his dad before his parents split up the first time and that resentment has only grown.


----------



## Livvie

ArthurGPym said:


> Meh. I don't know. She's a very attractive woman. Even if she and her ex do break up, she won't stay single for long. She's a master of that female art of maximizing her resources. I have no doubt she will latch on to a new man quickly.


Then I pity the next man she "latches on to".

There's more to a relationship than attractiveness.


----------



## LATERILUS79

Just a suggestion, but when the kid is 18 and he is still having difficulty with his craptastic father, you could help him out become independent of his parents as he tries to move on with his life.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> Meh. I don't know. She's a very attractive woman. Even if she and her ex do break up, she won't stay single for long. She's a master of that female art of maximizing her resources. I have no doubt she will latch on to a new man quickly.


Hard to tell.
However, the Kid is obviously not a happy camper
She is obviously not liking the "Good Life" with the ex
So, what is the best solution to her conundrum? You.
She knows she royally screwed the pooch. You, through your actions, proved that you are the much better man from every perspective. In Muffin's mind, she deserves the best.
Don't underestimate her. You better believe she will be "Maximizing Her Resources"; more than likely in your general direction.
You can expect one or more plays from her regarding reconnecting, sometime, somewhere, when you least expect it.
Just don't fall for any of it.
I was engaged once to a woman that sounds a lot like her.
It finally took my getting married to someone else, and a letter from my wife responding to a Christmas card the ex sent to me before she finally packed it in.


----------



## Openminded

It’s unfortunate that he and his father don’t get along but that’s their issue to work out and they either will or they won’t. His mother has made the decisions she’s made — for now. When he’s legally an adult, if the two of you want to have a relationship then obviously you can. Until then, don’t be tempted to get in the middle.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> Just a suggestion, but when the kid is 18 and he is still having difficulty with his craptastic father, you could help him out become independent of his parents as he tries to move on with his life.


I'm not thinking that far ahead.

I did talk to Barb. Remember her? Turns out the cops did a referral to Child Services, so now the county is involved and Sarah and her ex should be getting a visit from some case workers shortly. Barb says she has very little patience with Sarah now. She thinks Sarah is very very regretful about screwing things up with me. She has asked Barb a couple of times if she or her husband have talked to me. She wanted to know how I was doing. So sweet. 

In fact I did play golf with Barb's husband a couple weeks ago and he smoked me. This whole ****show with Sarah has knocked me off my game. Pisses me off.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Tdbo said:


> I was engaged once to a woman that sounds a lot like her.
> It finally took my getting married to someone else, and a letter from my wife responding to a Christmas card the ex sent to me before she finally packed it in.


What did that ex do to you? Did she two-time you with another guy?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Openminded said:


> It’s unfortunate that he and his father don’t get along but that’s their issue to work out and they either will or they won’t. His mother has made the decisions she’s made — for now. When he’s legally an adult, if the two of you want to have a relationship then obviously you can. Until then, don’t be tempted to get in the middle.


Like I said, I'm not getting in the middle of anything. I just offer a sympathetic ear. In fact, when I did talk to the boy I tried to give him some pointers on how to get along with his dad. Look, there is no one on this earth who wants that kid to get along with his dad more than I do. I had a crap relationship with my old man and it is one of my great regrets that I was never able to fix it.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Kaliber said:


> @ArthurGPym delteting text/letters from someone that hurt you and not even entertaining the idea to read them show that you have a lot of strength.
> Wished that all betrayed men had that strength, but weakness and simping is the norm for most (that's why they eat the crap sandwich from the same person every time)!


I got sucked back in several times with my first wife and so I knew that Sarah would string me along because that is what monkeybranching women do. I saw Sarah's attempts for what they were: manipulation.


----------



## LATERILUS79

How old is the boy right now? He’s a teenager if I remember correctly. So, at most you are looking at 4 years before he is legally an adult.

your Last comment hit me and is the reason I keep mentioning a strong friendship with him once he’s an adult. You really want the boy to have a great relationship with his dad. That is respectable. I understand. For me personally, my “family” has nothing to do with blood relation. Family to me has always been those that I can trust the most. The ones I can feel vulnerable with. The ones that treat me with respect. The ones that truly love me.

I do love my blood relation family, but I have friends that I’m closer with than my own two brothers. It’s just the way it is. Nothing against my brothers, but my friends simply love me more and if I were ever truly in trouble, I would call them before I called my brothers.

the more you told your story, the more I saw this relationship developing with this young man. I just get this feeling that he wants to grow up and be like you. Not his dad. He trusts you. I think he wants to make YOU proud. Not his parents.

trust me, I understand that is a heavy burden to bear, but I just have a gut feeling with the way things are turning out. Arthur, you are a great man. You have shown us poise and dignity throughout this whole experience. I personally think it would be amazing for you to pass on a bit of yourself to the next generation. Look at how many cheaters come from divorced and cheater families. Wouldn’t it suck if this boy grew up thinking this is just how relationships go? This is the norm? You’ve already shown him that this is fact is NOT the norm. Men and women are NOT supposed to treat each other this way. He’s coming from a broken, messed up family - but with your guidance the boy can break that cycle.

just my opinion. I’ve come to respect you a great deal throughout the journey you’ve shared with us here.You gotta do what you gotta do. No judgement from me.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> What did that ex do to you? Did she two-time you with another guy?


Fortunately, I did not have to experience that.
However, after the engagement, she became I person that I no longer knew or especially liked (let alone loved.)
I made her pull the plug on the engagement, as her mother had already put several thousand dollars into the wedding, and I wasn't about to let her be the martyr. Mother and I had kept in touch, and she did side with me.
There was a period of about a week we did start talking again. I probably needed some closure, and she was trying to get a foot in the door so she had some options.
One night during a phone conversation, she made a derogatory statement about me that killed any buzz I ever had for her, and I ended it not so subtly over the phone.
I was done. I took the steps to move on. About six weeks later, I met and was dating the woman who is now my wife. She started calling. She tried to engage, and had several conversations with my answering machine (until it cut her off.) She never did show up, I think because she knew that would not be in her best interests.
Later that year, I took another job and moved about three counties away. I knew she was still trying to reach out, because I had relatives call me telling me that she was calling them at work and grilling them in an effort to find out where I was at.
Even though my relatives didn't rat me out, she was still resourceful enough to find out where I was. The calls still continued sporadically (I guess she really liked my answering machine, I was using it to screen all calls.)
To this point, this had been going on for over two years. During the next year, the woman that I had been dating and I got engaged and had set a date for the following year. calls still continued at irregular intervals with messages left. We were married in 1994, and calls still continued through the rest of 1994 and into 1995. We got into Christmas season of 1995, when two Christmas cards showed up at the house. One from her and one from her mother. Both had letters in them, the basic what is going on letter. Hers kind of portrayed herself as busy but lonely. No significant other, bla-zay-bla-bla. My Wife grabbed the letter, and said "I'm going to put an end to this s**t once and for all." She sat down and put together the "Good life" letter designed to make her feel like s**t. My wife then said " If this doesn't work, the next thing will be a hand written Thank You to her for sending you my way." Letter one worked. No more contact. However, it took three years and a Marriage for her to finally get the idea.
That's why I say that the Drama is not over yet for you.


----------



## ArthurGPym

LATERILUS79 said:


> How old is the boy right now? He’s a teenager if I remember correctly. So, at most you are looking at 4 years before he is legally an adult.


He will be sixteen next month. And he was well on his way to being a first rate metal guitar player, but because his sh*thead, control freak dad doesn't like rock, he doesn't let the boy practice whenever he is around. So the kid is languishing.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Tdbo said:


> Fortunately, I did not have to experience that.
> However, after the engagement, she became I person that I no longer knew or especially liked (let alone loved.)
> I made her pull the plug on the engagement, as her mother had already put several thousand dollars into the wedding, and I wasn't about to let her be the martyr. Mother and I had kept in touch, and she did side with me.
> There was a period of about a week we did start talking again. I probably needed some closure, and she was trying to get a foot in the door so she had some options.
> One night during a phone conversation, she made a derogatory statement about me that killed any buzz I ever had for her, and I ended it not so subtly over the phone.
> I was done. I took the steps to move on. About six weeks later, I met and was dating the woman who is now my wife. She started calling. She tried to engage, and had several conversations with my answering machine (until it cut her off.) She never did show up, I think because she knew that would not be in her best interests.
> Later that year, I took another job and moved about three counties away. I knew she was still trying to reach out, because I had relatives call me telling me that she was calling them at work and grilling them in an effort to find out where I was at.
> Even though my relatives didn't rat me out, she was still resourceful enough to find out where I was. The calls still continued sporadically (I guess she really liked my answering machine, I was using it to screen all calls.)
> To this point, this had been going on for over two years. During the next year, the woman that I had been dating and I got engaged and had set a date for the following year. calls still continued at irregular intervals with messages left. We were married in 1994, and calls still continued through the rest of 1994 and into 1995. We got into Christmas season of 1995, when two Christmas cards showed up at the house. One from her and one from her mother. Both had letters in them, the basic what is going on letter. Hers kind of portrayed herself as busy but lonely. No significant other, bla-zay-bla-bla. My Wife grabbed the letter, and said "I'm going to put an end to this s**t once and for all." She sat down and put together the "Good life" letter designed to make her feel like s**t. My wife then said " If this doesn't work, the next thing will be a hand written Thank You to her for sending you my way." Letter one worked. No more contact. However, it took three years and a Marriage for her to finally get the idea.
> That's why I say that the Drama is not over yet for you.


Oh my god! 

You dodged a bunny boiler there, What a psycho!


----------



## Asterix

Livvie said:


> Then I pity the next man she "latches on to".
> 
> *There's more to a relationship than attractiveness.*


I agree. Even if we put lipstick on it, a pig is still a pig.


----------



## Gabriel

ArthurGPym said:


> Meh. I don't know. She's a very attractive woman. Even if she and her ex do break up, she won't stay single for long. She's a master of that female art of maximizing her resources. I have no doubt she will latch on to a new man quickly.


Yeah, later. But now, she's miserable. She's stuck bad with a guy she divorced, realizing why. Her kid hates him, likes you better. And she blew it.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ArthurGPym said:


> Meh. I don't know. She's a very attractive woman. Even if she and her ex do break up, she won't stay single for long. She's a master of that female art of maximizing her resources. I have no doubt she will latch on to a new man quickly.


Latch on like a dog tick.


----------



## TDSC60

You did the right thing helping the kid. No man of integrity could abandon a young kid in that situation without attempting to help. Now you have gotten him home, checked on him the next day, and assured him you are available in the future to talk. Leave it there unless he contacts you.

As for the people urging you to go out and live your life, don't force it. Take all the time you need to focus on yourself. Having another person in your life on a regular basis does not guarantee happiness and it looks like you were "all in" with Sarah so it could take some time to recover from the way it ended. 

If you meet someone and a relationship develops naturally, then good for you.


----------



## Kamstel2

Arthur, just wanted to check in on you.

how are you doing?
Hope things are going well.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Kamstel2 said:


> Arthur, just wanted to check in on you.
> 
> how are you doing?
> Hope things are going well.


Doing well. 

Two Saturdays ago Sarah called me from a mutual friend's phone. Turns out she had "borrowed" the friend's phone without his knowledge and called me. We only spoke for a minute. She said she wanted to thanked me for finding her boy and bringing him home and then tried to make small talk. I didn't really want to talk. Hearing her voice took me right back to square one.

She was acting sad and kept begging me to say something to her. I just told her I hoped everything worked out between her son and his dad and told her I should get off the phone . She asked if we could meet and talk some time and I told her no, that she was back with her ex and it wouldn't be right. That was it. 

Later on I got a text from the mutual friend apologizing to me and admonishing Sarah for using his phone without his knowing.


----------



## Marc878

Sorry. Any contact can reset the clock. You did grreat though.👍


----------



## skerzoid

You did a good thing and then you did a smart thing. Remember, "Strength & Honor." Let her remember you that way to the end of her days.


----------



## Landofblue

Seems your mutual friend should rethink his friendship with your ex. 

I know your ex will regret the decisions she has made in her life. Forever is a long time.
Good to hear from you.


----------



## Kamstel2

Great job handling the phone call. Wish I could say that her attempt to reach is a surprise. It’s amazing how cheaters are so predictable!!

Stay focused on keeping her out of your life and moving on!!!

she was looking for to jettison some of the guilt she has. She thinks that opening up and telling you all her rationalizations she will feel guilty. And in the process, she would just transfer her bad feelings to you!!

keep moving forward


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## Kamstel2

Great job handling the phone call. Wish I could say that her attempt to reach is a surprise. It’s amazing how cheaters are so predictable!!

Stay focused on keeping her out of your life and moving on!!!

she was looking for to jettison some of the guilt she has. She thinks that opening up and telling you all her rationalizations she will feel guilty. And in the process, she would just transfer her bad feelings to you!!

keep moving forward and away from her!


----------



## sideways

Says a lot about who she is. Specifically, I wonder if her husband knows she was wanting to meet up with you? I think we all know the answer to this. You dodged a bullet!!

Also using someone else's phone to call you.


----------



## Marc878

sideways said:


> Says a lot about who she is. Specifically, I wonder if her husband knows she was wanting to meet up with you? I think we all know the answer to this. You dodged a bullet!!
> 
> Also using someone else's phone to call you.


Not surprising. This is who she is.


----------



## Evinrude58

Poor muffin isn’t happy with her selfish decision. Now’s the time she will lay the “I’m so sorry, can we just be friends again” bs on you. Then offload her guilt, try to squirm back into your life, etc. 
You were wise not to bite the poison apple she was hoping yo feed you. Bravo


----------



## ArthurGPym

Kamstel2 said:


> Great job handling the phone call. Wish I could say that her attempt to reach is a surprise. It’s amazing how cheaters are so predictable!!
> 
> Stay focused on keeping her out of your life and moving on!!!
> 
> she was looking for to jettison some of the guilt she has. She thinks that opening up and telling you all her rationalizations she will feel guilty. And in the process, she would just transfer her bad feelings to you!!
> 
> keep moving forward and away from her!



She thinks we can be friends and by doing so absolver her of her ****tiness.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I keep hearing from several mutual friends that her relationship with the ex-husband is rocky at best. Apparently last week she kicked him out of her house for the second or third time.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> I keep hearing from several mutual friends that her relationship with the ex-husband is rocky at best. Apparently last week she kicked him out of her house for the second or third time.


You handled yourself like a champ.
This piece of information insures that you will be fielding her for some time.
Poor Muffin realizes she really screwed the pooch.
You returning the kid was the honorable thing to do. 
I'm sure that the feedback she received from friends/family in regards to such a stellar move really depressed Muffin, and made her both look and feel stupid.
You have a real Bunny Boiler on your hands.
You haven't heard the last of this one.
Stay strong and embrace the ghost.


----------



## ArthurGPym

On a positive note, I met a very nice younger woman (age 37) who is a friend of one of my business colleagues. She is Asian and very attractive. We have a date set up for this coming weekend and I can't wait. I need to get out and meet people and stop being a hermit.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> On a positive note, I met a very nice younger woman (age 37) who is a friend of one of my business colleagues. She is Asian and very attractive. We have a date set up for this coming weekend and I can't wait. I need to get out and meet people and stop being a hermit.


This is how you shut the Bunny down.
Replace her. Make sure word gets back to her network.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


----------



## Andy1001

ArthurGPym said:


> Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


I’d say that your in for a treat………..😜


----------



## Livvie

I'd be careful. 

I'd check out, if you become serious with her in the future, what her family is like and what her familial expectations are. Does her mother expect to live with her as she gets older? That's a thing.

Also explore why she never married.


----------



## LATERILUS79

ArthurGPym said:


> Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


dont know, but I do know that the YouTube channel “Moontellthat” is hilarious. It is basically a documentary of a guy that constantly records his interactions with his Vietnamese wife. It is freakin’ hilarious. She is obviously very loving and caring with him and it is just hilarious to listen to the language barrier that they work through.


----------



## SunCMars

ArthurGPym said:


> In fact I did play golf with Barb's husband a couple weeks ago and _he smoked me._


Uh huh! 
And that's your excuse, and you are sticking to it.


----------



## SunCMars

ArthurGPym said:


> She thinks we can be friends and by doing so absolver her of her ****tiness.


When you are _strongly_ self-centered, it is hard to see anyone else, other than their shadow.

And....they see your shadow as blocking any light they might be receiving.
It's not you, it is what you can do for them.

She is weakly self aware, self centered.

Yet, yet, yet, acts, the changeable fluttering butterfly in a moderate wind.

She is taciturn, then changeable.
A surface dweller, she.

I also see her as hating to lose....anything.
Her ex, now you.



_Mabel-_


----------



## Angel wings

ArthurGPym said:


> So I have waited a while to post my current situation. I am hesitant, because I know what I should do, but I am hesitant to do it. I don’t know why I hesitate. She has given me no reason not to. I feel a fool and a chump, and I hate feeling this way and at the same time I feel like I cannot gain any traction. So here it goes.
> I am a retired 54 year old retired guy. I was married back in the early ‘90s but that marriage only lasted four years. I’m not really a player, and although I have had many relationships over the years settling down was never really an option for me. That was until I met my current girlfriend (let’s call her Sarah) back in June 2019. We met at a backyard barbecue hosted by a mutual friend who worked with her. Sarah was 45 at the time, beautiful and vivacious. I had never met any woman quite like her and we hit it off. She really seemed to like me and for me it was lust at first sight. We went out on our first date the next week and dated exclusively from that point on.
> Sarah was married for twenty years before divorcing her husband in 2018. She has two teenage boys and she shares joint custody with her husband. I live one town over from Sarah, and since we started dating she has driven from her town to mine (about 25 miles) to spend weekends with me. Sometimes, when her ex-husband and sons were out of town, I would travel over to her place and we would hit the town and have fun. Sarah is very outgoing and has a huge circle of friends, most of them married couples. It seemed like every weekend I went there she had some plans for us to go to different social activities with her circle of friends. That was fine with me because I’m a sociable guy and I like people. I was accepted by the group and became good friends with several of the husbands. As I said I am retired, so I would hang out with these guys and play golf occasionally.
> 
> I never put any pressure on Sarah when it came to our dating. I never made any demands, and that is what she says she loved about me. If a particular weekend came and she wasn’t in the mood for company, I didn’t go see her. When the Covid lockdown hit we continued our relationship by Skyping every night and then continuing on with seeing each other when the restrictions lifted. There were no problems really. As for commitment, she told me many times that she was not looking for a husband, but just wanted to enjoy the kind of easy going relationship we had. In March of last year was when she told me for the first time that she loved me, and even though she was not in any hurry to settle down again, I was definitely the man she would want to spend the rest of her life with. Up until recently sex was frequent and very good. We are definitely compatible in bed, so that’s not an issue.
> 
> Now comes the issue and my dilemma. I asked her many times over the past year and a half if she considered us an exclusive couple. I told her back in March 2020 that I needed to know if she was dating other men so that I could feel free to date other women if I wanted. She vehemently told me “No! I only want to date you.” And that is when she told me she loved me, and I reciprocated because I do. But then something happened last month that has put our good relationship into a tailspin. On May 10th, 2021, Sarah’s ex-mother in law died of a sudden heart attack. She and her ex-in-laws had remained very close after her divorce from their son, and the news hit her hard. The ex-MIL was like a mom to her and the loss devastated her. I drove to see her and held her for hours while she cried into my chest. I did what I could to help the family prepare for the old woman’s funeral. I sat with her ex-FIL who is a wheelchair bound Korean war vet with dementia, and kept him distracted while Sarah and her ex-husband went to the funeral home and made arrangements. Over the next week I drove to her house every evening to console her and the boys. I cooked her and the boys dinner and then drove back home each night.
> 
> I was invited to the funeral so I went. This was when I first realized that something was off. I sat in the back while Sarah sat next to her ex-husband and the boys with the family. I stayed to the side during most of the proceedings, talking to Sarah’s friends and chatting with people who had come to pay their respects, but Sarah barely spoke to me during the whole day. She never left her ex-husband’s side, and they even held hands at the burial. It was weird. I felt like an interloper. Then at the reception it was the same thing. I went up to Sarah a couple times and tried to give her a hug but it seemed like she didn’t want me to. I milled around with some people in the back yard. Then I went inside and helped with dishes. I could see Sarah and her ex sitting on the living room couch talking to people. They looked like a married couple. I know it sounds petty but I started to get really mad. I’m one of those guys who retreats into myself when I am angry, so I just kept my head down and we finished cleaning the kitchen. I told Sarah’s boys I was leaving and gave them hugs and then I went to Sarah and told her I was heading home. She looked irritated and asked me why I was leaving. She told me not to leave and said she wanted to spend some time with me and if I would just wait she would get with me. Well I waited another hour and she never did. She sat with her ex and talked long into the evening with some people I didn’t know. Finally, I just grabbed my keys and left. It was probably a juvenile move but I was hurt and disappointed.
> 
> I drove a half hour back home and did not receive a call from her until another half hour after that. “Where are you? Where did you go?” she demanded angrily. I told her it was very late and that I wanted to get back home before midnight because I had to get up early the next day to meet with a mortgage agent to start the process of refinancing my house (which was true). She asked me why I was mad and I denied it (I was). She knew I was lying, and asked me what my problem was and why I was acting like a child on a day when she was trying to concentrate on her family. I didn’t know what to say so I just apologized to her for not saying good night and we talked about a couple more things and then she hung up. Since that night things between us have been tense. I went to see her the next weekend and she was somewhat cold and distant, but weirdly the sex was off the charts good. Really hot. Afterwards she told me that she could only see me that night because she was going with her ex-husband to church the next day to see their oldest boy baptized. I asked if I could come and she made up some excuse as to why I shouldn’t and that pissed me off. So I just got up to go home. She kissed me goodnight and she told me she was sorry if she was being *****y but that her ex-MIL’s death was hitting her hard. I told her I wanted to be there for her but she keeps pushing me away. She denied that and told me she loves me and that I need to be patient with her.
> 
> Then this past weekend I asked her if she wanted to come over and she said no, that she had plans, but that she promised she would spend the 4th of July weekend with me. Well since this past Sunday I have not heard from her. This past Monday I joined this group and I’m now I’m here looking for advice. I think she is back with her ex-husband and won’t admit it. I want to confront her but have no real evidence other than her behavior to back up my suspicions. Am I being a big selfish baby? Should I just back off and let her do what she is going to do? I don’t want people thinking I am trying to control her. I have no desire to control her. In fact the whole thing about our relationship she loved is how chill I have tried to be around her. No expectations or demands. But the way she flat out ignored me at the funeral really hit me hard, or am I overacting about that whole thing?
> 
> Look I know she and her husband have a long history, but they divorced amicably and during the time I have been dating her the ex has not really been a factor up until his mom died. I know that I don’t have a claim on Sarah, but dang! we expressed our commitment to each other. I really love this woman and I saw a future with her. Maybe she doesn’t love me as much as she thought she did. Or maybe she has just been playing me for a fool this whole time? Using me as a stopgap until she could get back with her husband?
> She texted me “good morning Huggy” for the first time in three days this morning. I don’t even know if I want to answer her. Part of me says end this stupid charade and move on, and the other part of me says to answer the text. As much as I understand she is grieving, I have that gut feeling she is two-timing me. No actual proof. Should I trust my gut? I have read many threads on this site and that seems to be the consensus. Should I break it off for good with her, or just pull way back and wait to see what she does? There are too many red flags for me to ignore. She seems overtly preoccupied with her ex-husband and that should be the writing on the wall. I think I want to play it cool and not chase her. I'm going to back off and see if she chases me or comes after me to know why I am not kissing her ass.


Yes you right distant yourself from her she playing with you.. After all your emotions not a radio to switch on /off


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> I keep hearing from several mutual friends that her relationship with the ex-husband is rocky at best. Apparently last week she kicked him out of her house for the second or third time.


Awwww, that’s such a shame. And she betrayed you for that. Lol, muffin is not pleased with her own decisions. Cut her some slack and give her another shot, Arthur. She has learned her lesson! Now she will appreciate you. 🤢


----------



## gr8ful1

ArthurGPym said:


> She asked if we could meet and talk some time and I told her no, that she was back with her ex and it wouldn't be right


I don‘t think I could resist the temptation to tell her (ex?) husband that she wants to meet privately with you. That MIGHT have the effect of getting her to stop contacting you when the blowback from him hits her. I agree with others - she will likely continue contact attempts with you otherwise. Informing him just might stop that. Or break them up for good at which point she makes a full court press to vacuum you back in lol


----------



## Asterix

ArthurGPym said:


> I keep hearing from several mutual friends that her relationship with the ex-husband is rocky at best. Apparently last week she kicked him out of her house for the second or third time.


All the more reason why you NEED to maintain no contact with her. At this point with the way she treated/played the both of you and her ex, I'm not even sure who the plan B is anymore. I don't think she knows it herself and she does not seem to be the type who is into introspection. So, please don't be her plan A/B/C/D anymore. 

I have no clue with regards to the Vietnamese culture. But I'm somewhat familiar with searching, so hopefully these will help:



https://www.kulturstudier.com/m/files/Dev_1/Etiquette.pdf




http://www.ntac.hawaii.edu/downloads/products/briefs/culture/pdf/ACB-Vol2-Iss5-Vietnam.pdf



I think people get married very young in that culture. So, I'd be curious to know about her social situation. You may also want to find out more about her family and if they are or if she's planning on having them over to stay with her and look after them. 

All I would lke to say is:

Gooooooooooooood Morning, Vietnam!


----------



## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


Hide the knives.


----------



## Galabar01

My advice is to completely leave any thoughts of Sarah behind. Give this new woman 100% of your attention with 0 baggage. Enjoy your date and don't let past experience hinder your enjoyment of the moment.

In terms of dating an attractive, younger, asian woman? I don't have much advice there. However, I _do_ know that Sarah will be kicking herself...


----------



## ArthurGPym

gr8ful1 said:


> I don‘t think I could resist the temptation to tell her (ex?) husband that she wants to meet privately with you. That MIGHT have the effect of getting her to stop contacting you when the blowback from him hits her. I agree with others - she will likely continue contact attempts with you otherwise. Informing him just might stop that. Or break them up for good at which point she makes a full court press to vacuum you back in lol


Even after all these weeks, I'm still jealous of him. I keep dreaming of them having sex and it hurts, because I was her man, not him. Is this normal to still feel jealousy after all this time? I would do something like this just for the pure joy of sticking it to him. I need to suppress the caveman in me.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Even after all these weeks, I'm still jealous of him. I keep dreaming of them having sex and it hurts, because I was her man, not him. Is this normal to still feel jealousy after all this time? I would do something like this just for the pure joy of sticking it to him. I need to suppress the caveman in me.


I think it’s pretty common. However, the reality is she’s the culprit. He’s jut taking what she is willingly giving him. You didn’t lose much.

What’s more is that is who she is was and will always be. You just didn’t see it until she slapped you in the face with it.


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> Even after all these weeks, I'm still jealous of him. I keep dreaming of them having sex and it hurts, because I was her man, not him. Is this normal to still feel jealousy after all this time? I would do something like this just for the pure joy of sticking it to him. I need to suppress the caveman in me.


It depends on who you want to feel more pain? You can cause him pain by telling him. You can cause your wife ex-girlfriend even more pain by not telling him. How, you might ask? Let's say you don't tell him and he and your Ex break up. She knows that you took the high road. She knows what she lost and it tears her apart inside...


----------



## Evinrude58

Galabar01 said:


> It depends on who you want to feel more pain? You can cause him pain by telling him. You can cause your wife even more pain by not telling him. How, you might ask? Let's say you don't tell him and he and your Ex break up. She knows that you took the high road. She knows what she lost and it tears her apart inside...


I agree.


----------



## Galabar01

Evinrude58 said:


> She wasn’t his wife. Just saying. But I agree.


Thanks! Fixed.


----------



## skerzoid

ArthurGPym said:


> Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


Full Metal Jacket - Me So Horny (HD 720p) - YouTube


----------



## jonty30

ArthurGPym said:


> Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


I can't speak for her personally, but in general Vietnamese, Thai, and Filipino women are fairly tolerant of their mate's foibles. All except one, infidelity.

They will, in their terms, turn you into a butterfly if you screw around on them.
*snip


----------



## Marc878

Keep both hands on your camera man 🤨


----------



## SunCMars

ArthurGPym said:


> Even after all these weeks, I'm still jealous of him. I keep dreaming of them having sex and it hurts, because I was her man, not him. Is this normal to still feel jealousy after all this time? I would do something like this just for the pure joy of sticking it to him. I need to suppress the caveman in me.


Cavemen cannot be suppressed, only laid to rest in some cold ground.

I would feel the same, as it is my nature, that _failure to yield_ nature.

Aye.


----------



## Gabriel

My first question would be...can she cook? Because Vietnamese food is in my top 3.

Otherwise, don't overthink this. Just enjoy the date like any other date you've had. Her ethnicity really shouldn't matter.


----------



## Tdbo

Galabar01 said:


> It depends on who you want to feel more pain? You can cause him pain by telling him. You can cause your wife ex-girlfriend even more pain by not telling him. How, you might ask? Let's say you don't tell him and he and your Ex break up. She knows that you took the high road. She knows what she lost and it tears her apart inside...


This is your best revenge.
Floor the accelerator, and allow Muffin the dust for a snack.
While it hurts, better to take the pain now, instead of being married to her when the bottom drpped out.


----------



## GusPolinski

gr8ful1 said:


> I don‘t think I could resist the temptation to tell her (ex?) husband that she wants to meet privately with you. That MIGHT have the effect of getting her to stop contacting you when the blowback from him hits her. I agree with others - she will likely continue contact attempts with you otherwise. Informing him just might stop that. Or break them up for good at which point she makes a full court press to vacuum you back in lol


Might have the effect of getting her a knuckle sammich.

Seriously, @ArthurGPym — they’re both ****. Let them stink together without getting any of it on you.


----------



## Chuck71

AGP...... as for your ex g/f.....fool me once-shame on you. Fool me twice-shame on me.

She showed you who she was..... BELIEVE HER.

You can easily tell when she is lying..... her lips are moving.


----------



## Livvie

Gabriel said:


> My first question would be...can she cook? Because Vietnamese food is in my top 3.
> 
> Otherwise, don't overthink this. Just enjoy the date like any other date you've had. Her ethnicity really shouldn't matter.


Ethnicity/culture should matter, when/if entering into a committed relationship. Cultural differences can be huge and need to be discussed. 

If you never discussed things, imagine marrying someone and 5 years down the road everyone but you expects that mother in law is moving in and will be living with you for the next couple of decades.

It pays to learn about cultural expectations so you know what kind of things you can't take for granted as knowing the answer to and know what to discuss.


----------



## Gabriel

Livvie said:


> Ethnicity/culture should matter, when/if entering into a committed relationship. Cultural differences can be huge and need to be discussed.
> 
> If you never discussed things, imagine marrying someone and 5 years down the road everyone but you expects that mother in law is moving in and will be living with you for the next couple of decades.
> 
> It pays to learn about cultural expectations so you know what kind of things you can't take for granted as knowing the answer to and know what to discuss.


This is a first date, Livvie, not a marriage.

You can learn as you get to know the person, ask important questions naturally in the relationship.

People are people, first and foremost. Being too inquisitive of someone's ethnicity can be off putting - get to know the person, their ethnicity is just a small part of who they are.

BTW I'm white and married to a Filipina-American. I know what I'm doing here.


----------



## Livvie

Gabriel said:


> This is a first date, Livvie, not a marriage.
> 
> You can learn as you get to know the person, ask important questions naturally in the relationship.
> 
> People are people, first and foremost. Being too inquisitive of someone's ethnicity can be off putting - get to know the person, their ethnicity is just a small part of who they are.
> 
> BTW I'm white and married to a Filipina-American. I know what I'm doing here.


That's why I said "when entering into a committed relationship". My advice was spot on re dealing with a long term commitment or marriage. As I said.

I also know what I'm doing here.

Editing to add, in many cases, ethnicity is actually a HUGE part of who (some) people are.


----------



## Gabriel

@Livvie I'm not sure why you argued with my original post about this, when I was clearly referring to Arthur's situation, NOT a committed relationship. 

Agree, those are different things.

Whether someone's ethnicity is a big part of who they are....that's up to them, not us. If that becomes evident as you get to know them, you can act/adjust accordingly if you want. Otherwise, no need. It's not our job to determine their ethnic importance.


----------



## Evinrude58

I’ve been out with a couple and they were both gorgeous. Language barrier was annoying.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Wasn't trying to spark controversy. Just wanted pointers on how to date a Vietnamese woman as opposed to have a relationship with one. I just wanted to know if she will be expecting anything from me culturally. What are the dos and donts? What can I talk about and what could make her uncomfortable? Do Asian woman respond to gentlemanly behavior: like pulling out the chair for them at table or holding the door to the car open for them?


----------



## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> Wasn't trying to spark controversy. Just wanted pointers on how to date a Vietnamese woman as opposed to have a relationship with one. I just wanted to know if she will be expecting anything from me culturally. What are the dos and donts? What can I talk about and what could make her uncomfortable? Do Asian woman respond to gentlemanly behavior: like pulling out the chair for them at table or holding the door to the car open for them?


Dude: as far as I'm concerned women have not change that much in the last few thousands of years to the point of a man not knowing what to do with a woman regardless of where she's from when it comes to dating and relationship. Regardless if the woman is the CEO of a company she works for or the owner, when it comes to dating and relationship the woman expects the man to lead, so not much change here. The best approach in my opinion is just to be yourself, don't try to fake it with disingenuous behavior. Women are very intuitive and can see that right away in general. So, just relax and try to lead, go with the flow, do not bend backwards over it, and if a gaffe is unintentionally committed due to "culture" them try to just laugh about it with her as something that goes with the lack of knowledge. Plus, I gather she's here in the states, so she has had the chance by now to somehow adapt to the ways things are here in the US. Good luck with your date.


----------



## jonty30

ArthurGPym said:


> Wasn't trying to spark controversy. Just wanted pointers on how to date a Vietnamese woman as opposed to have a relationship with one. I just wanted to know if she will be expecting anything from me culturally. What are the dos and donts? What can I talk about and what could make her uncomfortable? Do Asian woman respond to gentlemanly behavior: like pulling out the chair for them at table or holding the door to the car open for them?


Unless an Asian lives in the deep mountains of the Himalayas, Asian women are very much familiar with Western culture and ways. You have nothing to worry about there, as long as you can be chivalrous. They really like gentlemanly treatments. Just don't be weak with her. Be assertive, but gentlemanly. They will let you lead.


----------



## Gabriel

ArthurGPym said:


> Wasn't trying to spark controversy. Just wanted pointers on how to date a Vietnamese woman as opposed to have a relationship with one. I just wanted to know if she will be expecting anything from me culturally. What are the dos and donts? What can I talk about and what could make her uncomfortable? Do Asian woman respond to gentlemanly behavior: like pulling out the chair for them at table or holding the door to the car open for them?


I would treat her like you'd treat any other woman you are dating. Asian women tend to be a bit more subservient. However, she's been here 10 years so likely has adapted quite a bit to the US.

As for what NOT to talk about? Maybe the Vietnam War?

I've read a lot about that country. By all accounts, very prideful, takes care in what they do, and very friendly and courteous. It was Anthony Bourdain's favorite country - he loved the people, the way they go about their business, etc.


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> Wasn't trying to spark controversy. Just wanted pointers on how to date a Vietnamese woman as opposed to have a relationship with one. I just wanted to know if she will be expecting anything from me culturally. What are the dos and donts? What can I talk about and what could make her uncomfortable? Do Asian woman respond to gentlemanly behavior: like pulling out the chair for them at table or holding the door to the car open for them?


Just act like yourself and enjoy the experience. Why would you want to do anything else?


----------



## georgel316000

This was a long time ago. I took out a Chinese girl who was from China and lived in the US for few years. I took her to a museum with a Chinese section. I heard from my friend who had talked with this Chinese girl after our date. She said it was ok but boring because she seen enough Chinese stuff. LOL. Keep it simple, don't over think it.

I know I'm in the minority here. I read your post a few times and wonder if you should have a talk with Sara. Granted that she treated you like **** but I think with her MIL dying and seeing her EX in a vulnerable state made her wanting to be there for him. She thought maybe there could be a 2nd chance with him but realize it was a mistake. You've heard from friends that Sara has been asking about you, her relationship with her ex is souring, she "borrowed" a friend's phone to talk with you. Her boys like you. I know what she did to you was not right or fair. But based on what you've written so far I think you should hear her out. People make mistakes and bad choices and come to realise the truth after the fact.

Like I said, I'm in the minority here but if it was me I'd have a chat with her. Obviously she wants to talk with you. You should at least have the talk. Meet at a coffee shop, no big date, keep it simple. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## jonty30

Gabriel said:


> I would treat her like you'd treat any other woman you are dating. Asian women tend to be a bit more subservient. However, she's been here 10 years so likely has adapted quite a bit to the US.
> 
> As for what NOT to talk about? Maybe the Vietnam War?
> 
> I've read a lot about that country. By all accounts, very prideful, takes care in what they do, and very friendly and courteous. It was Anthony Bourdain's favorite country - he loved the people, the way they go about their business, etc.





georgel316000 said:


> This was a long time ago. I took out a Chinese girl who was from China and lived in the US for few years. I took her to a museum with a Chinese section. I heard from my friend who had talked with this Chinese girl after our date. She said it was ok but boring because she seen enough Chinese stuff. LOL. Keep it simple, don't over think it.
> 
> I know I'm in the minority here. I read your post a few times and wonder if you should have a talk with Sara. Granted that she treated you like **** but I think with her MIL dying and seeing her EX in a vulnerable state made her wanting to be there for him. She thought maybe there could be a 2nd chance with him but realize it was a mistake. You've heard from friends that Sara has been asking about you, her relationship with her ex is souring, she "borrowed" a friend's phone to talk with you. Her boys like you. I know what she did to you was not right or fair. But based on what you've written so far I think you should hear her out. People make mistakes and bad choices and come to realise the truth after the fact.
> 
> Like I said, I'm in the minority here but if it was me I'd have a chat with her. Obviously she wants to talk with you. You should at least have the talk. Meet at a coffee shop, no big date, keep it simple. Just my 2 cents.


That's definitely a point. Take her on an outing that doesn't cater to their culture. She wants a date that would provide her a different experience than what she knows.


----------



## GusPolinski

Just take her out and have fun.

Eat. Listen. Laugh.

Do what you do — if she doesn’t respond to that, she’s not for you.


----------



## johndoe12299

georgel316000 said:


> This was a long time ago. I took out a Chinese girl who was from China and lived in the US for few years. I took her to a museum with a Chinese section. I heard from my friend who had talked with this Chinese girl after our date. She said it was ok but boring because she seen enough Chinese stuff. LOL. Keep it simple, don't over think it.
> 
> I know I'm in the minority here. I read your post a few times and wonder if you should have a talk with Sara. Granted that she treated you like **** but I think with her MIL dying and seeing her EX in a vulnerable state made her wanting to be there for him. She thought maybe there could be a 2nd chance with him but realize it was a mistake. You've heard from friends that Sara has been asking about you, her relationship with her ex is souring, she "borrowed" a friend's phone to talk with you. Her boys like you. I know what she did to you was not right or fair. But based on what you've written so far I think you should hear her out. People make mistakes and bad choices and come to realise the truth after the fact.
> 
> Like I said, I'm in the minority here but if it was me I'd have a chat with her. Obviously she wants to talk with you. You should at least have the talk. Meet at a coffee shop, no big date, keep it simple. Just my 2 cents.


Hey Sara


----------



## manfromlamancha

ArthurGPym said:


> Wasn't trying to spark controversy. Just wanted pointers on how to date a Vietnamese woman as opposed to have a relationship with one. I just wanted to know if she will be expecting anything from me culturally. What are the dos and donts? What can I talk about and what could make her uncomfortable? Do Asian woman respond to gentlemanly behavior: like pulling out the chair for them at table or holding the door to the car open for them?


Be a gentleman. Take her to dinner. Go dancing. And when the time comes .... ROCK HER BOAT!!!! That is, if she hasn't already rocked yours by then.


----------



## Mike11

ArthurGPym said:


> Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


From Experience, very good looking normally( at least my friend is), and at least in my case, very well mannered 


Livvie said:


> I'd be careful.
> 
> I'd check out, if you become serious with her in the future, what her family is like and what her familial expectations are. Does her mother expect to live with her as she gets older? That's a thing.
> 
> Also explore why she never married.


That is more of a Chinese way, not so much Vietnamese


----------



## Divinely Favored

ArthurGPym said:


> Does anyone here have any experience dating Vietnamese women? It would be nice to know a little about what to expect going in. She has lived in the US for about ten years and is already a U.S. citizen, but she has never been married.


Love you long time.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Gabriel said:


> I would treat her like you'd treat any other woman you are dating. Asian women tend to be a bit more subservient. However, she's been here 10 years so likely has adapted quite a bit to the US.
> 
> As for what NOT to talk about? Maybe the Vietnam War?
> 
> I've read a lot about that country. By all accounts, very prideful, takes care in what they do, and very friendly and courteous. It was Anthony Bourdain's favorite country - he loved the people, the way they go about their business, etc.


Knew a vet that served 3 tours there. He told me stories that gave me nightmares and PTSD. Not to mention the VC 304 and the razor blade, poor GI. The MPs repaid with 870 to face.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Divinely Favored said:


> The MPs repaid with 870 to face.


That must have made a mess.

I have been around a lot of Vietnamese people in the US. I love them and get along great with them. Food is first class!!!


----------



## Evinrude58

This is going to shock everyone….
There’s good ones and bad ones among the Vietnamese…. Crazy, huh?


----------



## ccpowerslave

Evinrude58 said:


> This is going to shock everyone….
> There’s good ones and bad ones among the Vietnamese…. Crazy, huh?


😱


----------



## Livvie

Mike11 said:


> From Experience, very good looking normally( at least my friend is), and at least in my case, very well mannered
> 
> That is more of a Chinese way, not so much Vietnamese


Whatever you say, Batman. I disagree. Do you have first-hand experience with the culture?


----------



## Marc878

I think you’ve handled this well. People like her want to matter for some reason,
No contact will get you there. You’ll be fine.

Now enjoy the Asian finery👏👏👏


----------



## ArthurGPym

georgel316000 said:


> I know I'm in the minority here. I read your post a few times and wonder if you should have a talk with Sara. Granted that she treated you like **** but I think with her MIL dying and seeing her EX in a vulnerable state made her wanting to be there for him. She thought maybe there could be a 2nd chance with him but realize it was a mistake. You've heard from friends that Sara has been asking about you, her relationship with her ex is souring, she "borrowed" a friend's phone to talk with you. Her boys like you. I know what she did to you was not right or fair. But based on what you've written so far I think you should hear her out. People make mistakes and bad choices and come to realise the truth after the fact.
> 
> Like I said, I'm in the minority here but if it was me I'd have a chat with her. Obviously she wants to talk with you. You should at least have the talk. Meet at a coffee shop, no big date, keep it simple. Just my 2 cents.


I understand where you are coming from. But I'm not anyone's Plan B.


----------



## Evinrude58

She’s shown you your value TO HER. Anything you get at this point regarding that value IS A LIE. Just my opinion.

Honestly Arthur, you’ve got money, aren’t stupid, are talented……. I’ve got 1 of your 3 things and there is no way in hell I’d give her an opportunity to hurt me AGAIN like she did you, for no other reason than her screwed up thinking, and lack of loyalty. She was lying to you by omission in not telling you about her true feelings for her ex all along, lying to you straight to your face about him at the wedding and after about the party, and NOW after betraying you and screwing his brains out for a few weeks, wants to talk to YOU???The middle finger she needs (in my best Yoda voice).


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> I understand where you are coming from. But I'm not anyone's Plan B.


From what I've seen, there are certain people who are pathologically in favor of reconciliation. "She cut off your penis and fed it to her new guy? I'm sure she had her reasons. Give her another chance!" "He got your mom and all three of your sisters pregnant? He was probably just lonely. Give him another chance!"

No matter what happens, they'll tell you to reconcile. They'll focus on the most infinitesimally small silver lining (or what they perceive as a silver lining) to get you to do what they want. Don't listen. Move on.


----------



## Galabar01

The only thing I'm sure of is this: if you bring any of your baggage into this date, you will regret it, without a doubt, you will regret it.


----------



## Kaliber

Hay @ArthurGPym
I might get shamed for telling you this but here it goes:
There are two schools when it comes to disclosing passed relationships to new partners:

Be open and tell every thing.
Be vague and generalize without going into specifics.
My advice with any future relationship: Do not disclosing the detailed reasons why your passed relationships broke, *I mean the cheating part*, the reason is that it will lower your value *even if it wasn't your fault.

Example: *
I divorced my ex-wife because she disrespected me and thought she could get away with it, so I kicked her to the curb!
OR It just didn't work out, she is not the wife I thought she would be!

You're not lying, you just didn't disclose the detailed reasons why you dumped your wife and later Sara!
The average Joe or Jane do not understand how deeply broken cheaters are, many don't understand that it has nothing to to with the betrayed spouse at all, yes they do understand that the cheater is a person that did a very bad choice, BUT they will always have this lingering feeling that you lacked something fundamental in your character that made your spouse so not happy to the extent that they sought out an affair partner and cheat on you. Here we do, we understand, we are educated about this matter, but not every one is!

Good luck with your date!


----------



## Galabar01

I think Kaliber has an interesting point. I would say that you should be vague at the start. However, once you are more serious with a new person, you should definitely delve into it (if they are interested). Let them know about your past. I don't see it is devaluing. Instead, it shows the new person that you are not a s$mp and they had better treat you reasonably...


----------



## ArthurGPym

Kaliber said:


> Hay @ArthurGPym
> 
> My advice with any future relationship: Do not disclosing the detailed reasons why your passed relationships broke, *I mean the cheating part*, the reason is that it will lower your value *even if it wasn't your fault.*


Good points. It got me thinking.

I had this happen to me before. Back a few years before I met Sarah I was going out with a lady I liked a lot. We had gone on two dates and on the third date I took her to a very quiet and romantic cocktail lounge so we could talk more about ourselves without distraction. It was really nice and intimate. We got a booth in a dark corner and were snuggling and getting all handsy with each other. I knew I would wake up with her in the morning. 

Everything was good up until the point she asked me about my first marriage. I told her the truth, didn't try to lie to her. She was noticeably taken aback but she put on a fake smile and tried to be a trooper the rest of the evening. Her hand came off my thigh. The conversation dwindled down to superfluous jabber and finally I just took her home. No kiss goodnight, and no fourth date. Yes, the dirt of infidelity sticks on the betrayed and won't wash off. 

I think maybe the reason that Sarah accepted my past was that deep down cheating is really no real big deal to her. 

Maybe I will send her a text and tell her this story and my revelation about her tonight.


----------



## ArthurGPym

As for the lady I'm taking out this weekend, I do not intend to get too deep into the past with her. I plan on keeping it light and fun. I'm taking her to Color Me Mine and then to a great BBQ joint. At worst, she won't be interested in me, but at least I will get my own self-decorated coffee mug out of the deal. However, if on the offhand she digs me and offers me a random BJ in the car, I won't try to stop her. Unsolicited BJs are the best.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Really? The word cocktail isn't allowed on this site? Really? That is ridiculous.


----------



## Galabar01

I was wondering what c___tail meant, but I can get it from context. Really? I guess any word with c___ in it is banned? Strange.


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> As for the lady I'm taking out this weekend, I do not intend to get too deep into the past with her. I plan on keeping it light and fun. I'm taking her to Color Me Mine and then to a great BBQ joint. At worst, she won't be interested in me, but at least I will get my own self-decorated coffee mug out of the deal. However, if on the offhand she digs me and offers me a random BJ in the car, I won't try to stop her. Unsolicited BJs are the best.


I wouldn’t date a woman that went down on me on our first date. Surely you jest.
No telling where those lips have been….


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> As for the lady I'm taking out this weekend, I do not intend to get too deep into the past with her. I plan on keeping it light and fun. I'm taking her to Color Me Mine and then to a great BBQ joint. At worst, she won't be interested in me, but at least I will get my own self-decorated coffee mug out of the deal. However, if on the offhand she digs me and offers me a random BJ in the car, I won't try to stop her. Unsolicited BJs are the best.


Man, BBQ. Now I'm hungry.


----------



## Chuck71

add to that any guy named D_ck, as in last name Cavett.


----------



## Galabar01

Evinrude58 said:


> I wouldn’t date a woman that went down on me on our first date. Surely you jest.
> No telling where those lips have been….


Me neither. Yucko...


----------



## ArthurGPym

Evinrude58 said:


> I wouldn’t date a woman that went down on me on our first date. Surely you jest.
> No telling where those lips have been….


Why not? I'm not looking for a wife. 

I'll look closely for herpes. 

Yeah I'm jesting a bit. Take it easy champ.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Galabar01 said:


> Me neither. Yucko...


You have never had a random BJ have you?


----------



## ArthurGPym

Before anyone calls me a disgusting perv regarding the BJ remark, understand that I haven't gotten laid for weeks.


----------



## TDSC60

Vietnamese women are just like any other ethnic group including American born women. One size does not fit all. They will differ widely as far as beliefs and likes go. Just be yourself and do not let her nationality enter into your thinking unless she comments on it.

As far as texting an Ex to reveal what you have learned or think you have learned......ARE YOU NUTS!!!!!! Do you really think that poking that bear is a good idea?


----------



## ArthurGPym

TDSC60 said:


> As far as texting an Ex to reveal what you have learned or think you have learned......ARE YOU NUTS!!!!!! Do you really think that poking that bear is a good idea?


I'd like to torment her.


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> Before anyone calls me a disgusting perv regarding the BJ remark, understand that I haven't gotten laid for weeks.


😋


----------



## Evinrude58

Torment her? Just post a picture of you and some hottie on fb and watch the northern lights appear from all the microwaves coming off her cell phone when she starts texting her girlfriends about who you’re seeing.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I don't do Fakebook.

No I have the urge to write her a well worded text telling her just how little regard and respect I have for her and her sh*tty life choices. I want to set the record straight with her so that there is no question about my opinion of her going forward.


----------



## Evinrude58

It won’t make you feel better, it will just give the opportunity for your mind to dwell on her, etc.
Just sayin……. I’d let sleeping dogs lie.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Nah I have the urge to kick those dogs off my couch.


----------



## Rob_1

Nothing like completely going gray rock on a woman to make her feel completely scorned. If you drop one word on them you give them the satisfaction in their head to think that you care and still is thinking of her.


----------



## manwithnoname

Divinely Favored said:


> Love you long time.


Only if she so horny.


----------



## ABHale

ArthurGPym said:


> I don't do Fakebook.
> 
> No I have the urge to write her a well worded text telling her just how little regard and respect I have for her and her sh*tty life choices. I want to set the record straight with her so that there is no question about my opinion of her going forward.


This could be very therapeutic for you. I will encourage this idea.


----------



## Galabar01

AGP, you will hurt her more by just maintaining no contact. Don't giver her the closure she desires. Even a nasty letter will give her that. Giver her _nothing_.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> I'd like to torment her.


After being burned once, you want to play with fire so you can experience the scorch twice?


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> I don't do Fakebook.
> 
> No I have the urge to write her a well worded text telling her just how little regard and respect I have for her and her sh*tty life choices. I want to set the record straight with her so that there is no question about my opinion of her going forward.


If you need the therapeutic approach, sit down and write your tersely written note.
Then feed it to your shredder.
If you want to show her how little regard and respect you have for her, refuse to grant her real estate in your mind.
Embrace the Ghost.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> I'll look closely for herpes.


Good to know.
That is definitely a "Best Practice."😀


----------



## Asterix

ArthurGPym said:


> Really? The word ****tail isn't allowed on this site? Really? That is ridiculous.


I was wondering what you meant. Did you mean ccoktail lounge? or c o c k t a i l lounge?

Apologies. Just trying to be a [email protected]$$.


----------



## Asterix

ArthurGPym said:


> I don't do Fakebook.
> 
> No I have the urge to write her a well worded text telling her just how little regard and respect I have for her and her sh*tty life choices. I want to set the record straight with her so that there is no question about my opinion of her going forward.





Evinrude58 said:


> It won’t make you feel better, it will just give the opportunity for your mind to dwell on her, etc.
> Just sayin……. I’d let sleeping dogs lie.


I'd echo @Evinrude58 's suggestion although probably not for the same reason.

The reason why it's not a good idea to send her a text because that might indicate that she gets to live in your mind rent free. You sending her a text tells her that you do think of her. You not sending her a text makes her wonder if you even think about her. Which option would you prefer?

If she every comes to you and gives you a big speech and says FU, IMO the appropriate response would be to say "There's something in your teeth" or to offer her a breath mint.


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> Even after all these weeks, I'm still jealous of him. I keep dreaming of them having sex and it hurts,* because I was her man, not him*. Is this normal to still feel jealousy after all this time? I would do something like this just for the pure joy of sticking it to him. I need to suppress the caveman in me.


Perhaps you hit on something here. I'd be willing to wager you were never *the* man and simply didn't know it. And perhaps neither did she, but as things unfolded she realized her heart was still with x but wanted to monkey branch with you. The branch broke. 

Your comment (_*because I was her man, not him*_) suggests you still believe the story she sold you hence still have hard feelings over how the whole thing went down, which by the way I understand. Still though, I think it may help you to realize you never held the status you thought you had and this has nothing to do with you. 

You entered into a relationship with a woman with unresolved feelings for another man and she simply didn't have the courage or integrity to inform you. If you were the undisputed #1, it was a weak and short lived period at the top. You would be well served to come to the conclusion that you were helplessly gas lit by a woman unwilling and incapable of providing you with what was needed to control your destiny. 

This is of no fault of yours, however your personal recovery is impeded by believing you held a position she actually never placed you in. It was a mirage intended to reel you in and hook you. She succeeded in falsifying your relationship status as a couple. In essence it was a lake in the desert. 

The lake was never there. In other words, it's best to proceed as if you were FOOLED into thinking you were her man and NOT that you actually were. It'll help you accept the outcome which has more to do with her personal inauthenticity and not your incapability.


----------



## Chuck71

UBU.........nothing more........this is a 1st date

you're not on "Married at First Sight"

if she doesnt like you, for you.....traverse along


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> I understand where you are coming from. But I'm not anyone's Plan B.


Yep. Her actions weren’t a mistake. It was a decision. She knew what she was doing. All talk does in these situations is make you a chump.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Nah I have the urge to kick those dogs off my couch.


A friend of mine years ago did this with his x wife. They had two teen kids. She couldn’t understand why he cut the princess completely out of his life. He wouldn’t even speak to her. He would drive up let the kids out and drive off.

It worked for awhile and I’m sure she was shocked but later was still trying to be his friend. He learned to ignore her really well😂.

IMO it’s fine as long as it’s a *last* one sided message. Then reblock her. You’ve got what it takes to handle this situation. A lot don’t. Talk will just keep you bound.


----------



## sideways

I think what you're not totally grasping is, just because you aren't speaking words to her (by text, email, on the phone or in person), your complete silence and ghosting her is in fact setting the record straight. 

In fact her actions have left her with no opportunity to explain or to be heard. Just deafening silence.

Are you one of those people who have to have the last word or one that can see the bigger picture and realize that silence is more powerful than ANY words you could ever verbalize to her.

So you have an "urge". You're wise enough to understand that these come and go. Trust me, if you follow through on the "urge", in time you'll regret giving in to it.

Let it be and live your life. As it was pointed out to you, she was never who you thought she was. Ok she had you fooled and maybe had herself fooled as well. Thank God the truth came out. It was obviously painful, but better to find out when you did then years later when you would have had SO much more invested in her.

Go read T.D. Jakes talk about "Let it go".


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## Dictum Veritas

sideways said:


> I think what you're not totally grasping is, just because you aren't speaking words to her (by text, email, on the phone or in person), your complete silence and ghosting her is in fact setting the record straight.
> 
> In fact her actions have left her with no opportunity to explain or to be heard. Just deafening silence.
> 
> Are you one of those people who have to have the last word or one that can see the bigger picture and realize that silence is more powerful than ANY words you could ever verbalize to her.
> 
> So you have an "urge". You're wise enough to understand that these come and go. Trust me, if you follow through on the "urge", in time you'll regret giving in to it.
> 
> Let it be and live your life. As it was pointed out to you, she was never who you thought she was. Ok she had you fooled and maybe had herself fooled as well. Thank God the truth came out. It was obviously painful, but better to find out when you did then years later when you would have had SO much more invested in her.
> 
> Go read T.D. Jakes talk about "Let it go".


The point to this post is poignant and very accurate.


----------



## skerzoid

*"fortitudiem et honorem"* (Strength & Honor). Let her remember you this way for the rest of her days. Don't give her the satisfaction of knowing you still care. The opposite of love is indifferance, not hatred.


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## Evinrude58

i agree. If possible, ONLY allow her to see the kind, generous, thoughtful, best possible Arthur. 
THAT is what will eat her ass up at night, knowing she let THAT man get away. Don’t lessen the sting by giving her an angry, mean Arthur to visualize. Kill her with kindness.

the returning her son to her——— like a Scottish claymore to the heart.

why let her off the hook with a mean message?
Damn Arthur. If you do it, how will I live vicariously through your perfect ghosting tactic you’ve accomplished so far?

Buck up, man! You can do this! Give her the Stonewall Jackson…..


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## Galabar01

Evinrude58 said:


> ...
> 
> why let her off the hook with a mean message?
> Damn Arthur. If you do it, how will I live vicariously through your perfect ghosting tactic you’ve accomplished so far?
> 
> Buck up, man! You can do this! Give her the Stonewall Jackson…..


Face it Arthur, you're a role model here. Make us proud!


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## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> I don't do Fakebook.
> 
> No I have the urge to write her a well worded text telling her just how little regard and respect I have for her and her sh*tty life choices. I want to set the record straight with her so that there is no question about my opinion of her going forward.


After rethinking this again, frankly, you won't need to.
I'll go back to what I have said in one of my previous posts, you may be done with her, but she ain't done with you.
Her using someone else's phone to call you is merely the beginning of what you will endure.
In her world: By God, she is Muffin! You will hear her BMW, grovel, cry, roar, or any other kind of manipulative, gyrational, drama she can impose upon you, because she is entitled.
She earned her PhD from the Bunny Boiler Academy.
She will utilize her "Skillz" until her needs are met.
She is merely regrouping at the moment. 
As the quality of her existence decreases, the number of attempts to reach out to you will increase.
Your best strategy is to Ghost or Gray Rock her, and move on swiftly.
She will keep on going until:
1. It is abundantly clear that you have moved on ( serious relationship, shacked up, or married to someone.)
2. She finds another "You", that being someone of your stature in every facet......or 
3. Things get so bad that you get a TRO against her.
Buckle your seatbelt. You are in for a ride.


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## fluffycoco

Guess OP sent message out already....


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## ArthurGPym

No I didn't send anything. I waited myself out and the urge passed. 

Anyway I had a very nice date with the Viet lady. We had fun. She made a vase and I made a coffee mug. We even got into a face painting fight with pottery glaze. Lots of flirting and she let me kiss her goodnight. It was nice. Not too much deep conversation. We kept it light. I'm not sure if there is chemistry there but it was nice to sit and spend time with an intelligent and beautiful woman. Like I said, if I don't get a second date with her at least I got a coffee mug out of the deal.


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## Evinrude58

🙌


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## Galabar01

My money is on a second date...


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## ArthurGPym

Galabar01 said:


> My money is on a second date...


We texted eaxch other and thanked each other for the date. I'm going to let her make the first move and see if she is really interested in going out again. Otherwise, onward.


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## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> We texted eaxch other and thanked each other for the date. I'm going to let her make the first move and see if she is really interested in going out again. Otherwise, onward.


Um, no? .

Give it two days and then text her. Don't be so passive. Of course, I've been married since 1999 and haven't dated since then, but, I'm thinking being a bit more aggressive might be helpful here. Also, maybe a native Vietnamese woman isn't going to be so forward as to text you first? Don't risk it. 

p.s. She's probably waiting for you to text her right now...


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## sideways

If you're interested in going out with her again than reach out to her and ask her out. Don't wait for her to make the move. By waiting for her that's just you subconsciously trying to protect yourself from getting hurt. Put yourself out there my friend.


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## Davit Bek

Typically, people from more traditional cultures expect the man to pursue the woman. And when that doesn't happen, they take it as a sign of no interest. I agree with everyone else. Since this date was just fun and light hearted conversation, I think you can go on 2 more dates before deciding if she is a good fit. Wish you the best.


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## ABHale

I would at least keep the texting going. If not a girlfriend then at least a friend.


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## Divinely Favored

Davit Bek said:


> Typically, people from more traditional cultures expect the man to pursue the woman. And when that doesn't happen, they take it as a sign of no interest.


On my first date with my wife i only kissed her hand when parting. I was trying to be a perfect gentleman. That i did not try to kiss her she thought i did not like her, told her matron of honor that. Threw her off when i called the next day. I told her later i did not want her to think i was just like all the other guys and wanting a piece of ass. 
I did though very very much but i was the LTR kind of guy. I did not want a night...i wanted forever. 
She looked just like one of Playboys Girls of the Big 12 from that year. 😲 she was on 🔥. That was 26 yrs and 2 kids ago, still going strong.


----------



## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> We texted eaxch other and thanked each other for the date. I'm going to let her make the first move and see if she is really interested in going out again. Otherwise, onward.


Wroooooong!!!! YOU call her in a couple of days and ask for a date. If she says no or if she sounds too iffy, then you got your answer right away instead of mind games in your own mind waiting for a call. That sucks.
Jesus, I wish I could write a book on how to act as a man when dating. regardless of today's confusing crap for dating, If you're a man, being assertive, confident, showing that you know what you want and that you're going for it without coming across as arrogant, domineering, and creepy is better than presenting yourself as a weak, timid, insecure dude that doesn't know how to go about, which it would be more of a turn off to women than showing a little overconfidence. Cultural patterns might come and go, but deep rooted biological imperatives for mating still are the same for both sexes.


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## Divinely Favored

Right


Rob_1 said:


> Wroooooong!!!! YOU call her in a couple of days and ask for a date. If she says no or if she sounds too iffy, then you got your answer right away instead of mind games in your own mind waiting for a call. That sucks.
> Jesus, I wish I could write a book on how to act as a man when dating. regardless of today's confusing crap for dating, If you're a man, being assertive, confident, showing that you know what you want and that you're going for it without coming across as arrogant, domineering, and creepy is better than presenting yourself as a weak, timid, insecure dude that doesn't know how to go about, which it would be more of a turn off to women than showing a little overconfidence. Cultural patterns might come and go, but deep rooted biological imperatives for mating still are the same for both sexes.


Right !!! I wish i knew 30 yrs ago what i know now. It took many years to undo the beta husband programming i received as a child from my parents behavior toward each other.


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## Taxman

One cannot help but hope that Sarah bumps into you while you are on a date with Viet lady. Sarah has caused but not yet experienced the feeling when a spouse/mate/whatever sleeps with someone else. No matter the relationship status at that point, it usually is a gigantic seismic shift. I did not know that this actually existed til my wife and I took my bf and his new wife out for dinner. His ex and her date were seated in the restaurant when we walked by. She had a meltdown, that this was her favorite restaurant and how dare he ruin it for her by bringing his WIFE?!?!?! She completely sidestepped the whole divorce because she slept with her boss thingy. She was greatly incensed that her ex moved on, and remarried within two years while her extramarital relationship fizzled out at about the time the D became final. Her monkey branch snapped, meanwhile, my bf found a delightful woman, with a great personality to be wife and mother. His kids absolutely adore his new wife. (She is very much a kid herself) His ex detests her. Bonus in my eyes.


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## farsidejunky

I'll echo the current sentiment. 

Call her and set it up. Don't leave her to wonder...at least, not too long. A little doesn't hurt. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> We texted eaxch other and thanked each other for the date. I'm going to let her make the first move and see if she is really interested in going out again. Otherwise, onward.


No, follow up with her in a timely fashion.
If she seems less than enthusiastic, back off and let her make any future plays.
Then, move on.


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## Ford_Prefect

years ago, when I was single, I was commuting by train to college. Seated behind me was two young ladies talking, one was talking about her recent date and told her friend how the guy captured her heart. They were loud and I couldn't help but overhear the conversation. The first time she was intimate with him, he did not call for a day or two. This made her sad and emotional as she was concerned that he was only after one thing. After a day or two she received flowers thanking her for the wonderful evening, then he called to setup another date. She liked that he pursued her, giving her some time to process the date, to miss him and wonder about his intentions, and he didn't appear too needy.


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## ArthurGPym

I just don't have the energy. I'm thinking about nixing the whole idea of a second date. Just don't have it in me right now.


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## Taxman

You have been on an emotional rollercoaster not of your own making. Of course you are overwhelmed in a dating situation, as everything you have known as normal was tossed out the window by Sarah and her bizarre way of dealintg with her life. You are collateral damage. As such, Arthur, I advocate one thing: Call up your ladyfriend, and take her out again. Do not even think this over.


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## syhoybenden

ArthurGPym said:


> I just don't have the energy. I'm thinking about nixing the whole idea of a second date. Just don't have it in me right now.


Sure. I get it. Too much too soon. Okay. You’re not a superman. Or a phony-baloney.

But

At least drop her a text, and let her know that you’re in a …. state. And that you think you really like her, but you’re afraid of leading her on and you don’t want to do the wrong thing because you’re just so damned confused right now.

If she’s really a good lady she’ll get it. Not only will she get it but she might well be impressed by your honesty.

Gives you time to think.

Gives her time to think.

Worth a shot, eh?

Whaddayagottolose?


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## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> I just don't have the energy. I'm thinking about nixing the whole idea of a second date. Just don't have it in me right now.


My advice: fake it until you make it. Try two more dates, just two. If after that you feel the same way, pull the plug...

Just two more...


----------



## sideways

Arthur going out with a woman doesn't have to have all of this pressure on if there's a fit, chemistry, sparks flying etc etc.

Given what you just went through, as well as some of your previous experiences as well, what about two people just going out and having a good time? No pressure, no expectations, just two grown @$$ adults going out and enjoying each other's company.

What if the two of you just became friends?

It's WAY too early for you (or her) to determine who you are too each other. 

One thing I see in you, and I don't say this in a judgmental way at all because I am guilty of this, but you over analyze things and ultimately get in your own way. 

You need to lighten the F up and when you say that the two of you got into a "face painting fight with pottery glaze" that tells me and everyone reading this that the two of you had fun.

Isn't that EXACTLY what you need right now???

Quit over thinking this.

She's NOT Sarah and thank God she isn't. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but moving forward I see you comparing every woman you go out with to Sarah. Just remember one thing, none of these women screwed you over like Sarah and broke your heart. 

Let that thought sink in with you.


----------



## johndoe12299

ArthurGPym said:


> I just don't have the energy. I'm thinking about nixing the whole idea of a second date. Just don't have it in me right now.


dating, especially after a LTR, is exhausting. I was just talking to a friend about this. He's about 1.5 years removed from a LTR and he just enjoys his alone time. He says it just takes too much energy to date someone, lol. So i get what you're saying. Even if it's just to "have drinks on a casual date"...it takes a lot of time and energy and can drain you for sure


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## Beach123

If you want another date with her then simply call and ask her. Do t let your recent history dictate your happiness.

The Asian gals I have known well enough over the years married - and fully expected their husbands to support them AND also support their family back in Vietnam. That included sending a sizable monthly amount home each month. One wife even made sure and set aside even more money from her husbands paycheck to her own bank account (separate money for her savings). 

So if that kind of arrangement isn’t cool with you it may be useful to know what her ideas are about her family before getting too attached. 

But really - if you want a date just ask. I’m a strong and independent woman but I definitely expect a man to ask me out if he’s interested - I don’t chase. I will suggest but I don’t chase. He’s gonna have to make effort if he wants my time.


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## Taxman

Yeah, I have had clients whose wives sent sizeable sums home to various parts of South East Asia. One in particular, had basically sent her husband's pension back home every month as they were living on his Mom's fairly sizeable pension. Unfortunately, Mom passed away about four years ago. Consequently, her pensions dried up as well. So they are now living on his pension, and he puts his foot down, that he can no longer afford his home here and subsidizing her family back in Laos. Unexpectedly, she fled the home, after a 20 year marriage and two kids. He found her working in a factory owned by "friends" from back home. She basically let him know that once the funds stopped flowing she was not inclined to stay in the marriage (there was a significant age difference) and was working to get a plane ticket home. We set about investigating, and it turns out that the last decade of their marriage she had been involved with the people who owned the factory, and this was a fairly calculated outcome. Her friends from back home really did not expect an immigration raid, followed by a tax audit, followed by several visits from the police for sales of stolen goods from factory. Essentially they told her to take a walk, else they probably would lose the business. She attempted to return to her BH and kids and act as if nothing happened. She was given a plane ticket by her eldest son and told to go home.


----------



## Talker67

Galabar01 said:


> My advice: fake it until you make it. Try two more dates, just two. If after that you feel the same way, pull the plug...
> 
> Just two more...


you know what they say about horses...if you get thrown off, you have to get right back up on them...or you will fear them for life.

same about women!


----------



## Talker67

Beach123 said:


> If you want another date with her then simply call and ask her. Do t let your recent history dictate your happiness.
> 
> The Asian gals I have known well enough over the years married - and fully expected their husbands to support them AND also support their family back in Vietnam. That included sending a sizable monthly amount home each month. One wife even made sure and set aside even more money from her husbands paycheck to her own bank account (separate money for her savings).
> 
> So if that kind of arrangement isn’t cool with you it may be useful to know what her ideas are about her family before getting too attached.
> 
> But really - if you want a date just ask. I’m a strong and independent woman but I definitely expect a man to ask me out if he’s interested - I don’t chase. I will suggest but I don’t chase. He’s gonna have to make effort if he wants my time.


My brother married a woman from China, and she turned out the be the best thing that ever happened to him. She really took care of him, and cared about him, as his health went downhill. Also she showed up with a fair sized stash of her own money from when she worked in China, so she def was not in it for tapping his money.


----------



## pastasauce79

Taxman said:


> Yeah, I have had clients whose wives sent sizeable sums home to various parts of South East Asia. One in particular, had basically sent her husband's pension back home every month as they were living on his Mom's fairly sizeable pension. Unfortunately, Mom passed away about four years ago. Consequently, her pensions dried up as well. So they are now living on his pension, and he puts his foot down, that he can no longer afford his home here and subsidizing her family back in Laos. Unexpectedly, she fled the home, after a 20 year marriage and two kids. He found her working in a factory owned by "friends" from back home. She basically let him know that once the funds stopped flowing she was not inclined to stay in the marriage (there was a significant age difference) and was working to get a plane ticket home. We set about investigating, and it turns out that the last decade of their marriage she had been involved with the people who owned the factory, and this was a fairly calculated outcome. Her friends from back home really did not expect an immigration raid, followed by a tax audit, followed by several visits from the police for sales of stolen goods from factory. Essentially they told her to take a walk, else they probably would lose the business. She attempted to return to her BH and kids and act as if nothing happened. She was given a plane ticket by her eldest son and told to go home.


You should write a book!!! I'd definitely buy it!!!


----------



## Asterix

Ford_Prefect said:


> years ago, when I was single, I was commuting by train to college. Seated behind me was two young ladies talking, one was talking about her recent date and told her friend how the guy captured her heart. They were loud and I couldn't help but overhear the conversation. The first time she was intimate with him, he did not call for a day or two. This made her sad and emotional as she was concerned that he was only after one thing. After a day or two she received flowers thanking her for the wonderful evening, then he called to setup another date. She liked that he pursued her, giving her some time to process the date, to miss him and wonder about his intentions, and he didn't appear too needy.


Thank you for that nice anecdote. Just for that anecdote I wish that May you never have to listen to Vogon poetry.


----------



## Talker67

Asterix said:


> Thank you for that nice anecdote. Just for that anecdote I wish that May you never have to listen to Vogon poetry.


and always bring a towel


----------



## Chuck71

Hey...... Bon Joiv is playing @ $$$ $$$ at 9. Would love to see you there.

There's your answer


----------



## ArthurGPym

johndoe12299 said:


> dating, especially after a LTR, is exhausting. I was just talking to a friend about this. He's about 1.5 years removed from a LTR and he just enjoys his alone time. He says it just takes too much energy to date someone, lol. So i get what you're saying. Even if it's just to "have drinks on a casual date"...it takes a lot of time and energy and can drain you for sure


This is exactly it. Health-wise I am good. I am in very good shape and taking care of myself. When I say I'm tired of dating, I mean I'm tired mentally. I just don't have it in me to go in and put on my best face and act the role of Mr. Cool. It just turns me off thinking about it. This has nothing to do with Viet Lady and everything to do with my piss poor attitude towards dating right now. She shouldn't become a victim of my uncertainties.


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## syhoybenden

So don't fill her with uncertainty. 

At the very least give her the "It's not you. It's me."


----------



## syhoybenden

That being said, whenever presented with that line I didn't believe it either.


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## Evinrude58

What does having a date and enjoying an evening have to do with uncertainties? 
why get all stressed over it. They don’t start getting territorial until about the third date. Then you can worry.😋


----------



## fluffycoco

Rob_1 said:


> Nothing like completely going gray rock on a woman to make her feel completely scorned. If you drop one word on them you give them the satisfaction in their head to think that you care and still is thinking of her.


Does this strategy work on men as well? If not, what is the best strategy for ladies to deal with this kind of situation?


----------



## GusPolinski

fluffycoco said:


> Does this strategy work on men as well? If not, what is the best strategy for ladies to deal with this kind of situation?


It does.


----------



## Chuck71

I just can't understand why there is so much pressure on the first date or two. Be yourself, nothing

fancy, If one goes all out on the first date, you are setting her expectations way high or "desperate to woo her" 

My first couple dates with W, were low key family run eateries. Mostly talking, getting a vibe on each other. 

Very simple....easy flow. Granted..... I live in a rural area. But I'd like to think I would be the same in a metro


----------



## ArthurGPym

I didn't grey rock her. I called her back this evening and we talked for a while and I told her I was not in a good place to be dating and that I probably wouldn't be calling her back again. I know that will disappoint all of you, but I can't do something when I feel like I'm faking it, and I would be faking it if I took her out again. It is not Viet Girl that I don't trust: I don't trust myself. I don't trust myself not to get prematurely attached to her. I don't need anymore attachments a this point in my life. I haven't gotten over Sarah yet and I don't need to bring that baggage into any friendship or relationship.


----------



## Chuck71

Relationship.........no. Friendship..... another story. At this time in your life, friends can be priceless


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> I didn't grey rock her. I called her back this evening and we talked for a while and I told her I was not in a good place to be dating and that I probably wouldn't be calling her back again. I know that will disappoint all of you, but I can't do something when I feel like I'm faking it, and I would be faking it if I took her out again. It is not Viet Girl that I don't trust: I don't trust myself. I don't trust myself not to get prematurely attached to her. I don't need anymore attachments a this point in my life. I haven't gotten over Sarah yet and I don't need to bring that baggage into any friendship or relationship.


If you're not ready, you're not ready. I think a lot of us tried to push you in a certain direction. However, you know yourself best.


----------



## sideways

You do what's best for you.

All we want for you is to be happy.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> I didn't grey rock her. I called her back this evening and we talked for a while and I told her I was not in a good place to be dating and that I probably wouldn't be calling her back again. I know that will disappoint all of you, but I can't do something when I feel like I'm faking it, and I would be faking it if I took her out again. It is not Viet Girl that I don't trust: I don't trust myself. I don't trust myself not to get prematurely attached to her. I don't need anymore attachments a this point in my life. I haven't gotten over Sarah yet and I don't need to bring that baggage into any friendship or relationship.


Nothing wring with that.
Take some time and get your s*** sorted.
Get mentally stronger and gird your loins.
Because the "Opera" osn't over for you yet, I'm afraid.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Looking back I let myself fall in love with Sarah too quickly. We just had such great chemistry and we jelled so well that I put aside my usual precautions and let myself fall for her hook and sinker. I was so dazzled by everything about her that I overlooked things in her past that I should have paid more attention to. To those who say that a person's past should have no bearing on the present, or that it your partner's sexual or romantic past of none of your business... well they are obviously people who have never been jilted or two-timed. It does matter and it should be taken into account. Shoulda woulda coulda.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> Looking back I let myself fall in love with Sarah too quickly. We just had such great chemistry and we jelled so well that I put aside my usual precautions and let myself fall for her hook and sinker. I was so dazzled by everything about her that I overlooked things in her past that I should have paid more attention to. To those who say that a person's past should have no bearing on the present, or that it your partner's sexual or romantic past of none of your business... well they are obviously people who have never been jilted or two-timed. It does matter and it should be taken into account. Shoulda woulda coulda.


Don't beat yourself up too bad. Look at the positives. You met and befriended what sounds like a fine young man and helped him in a time of need. Would you have made that trip to Spain had all this not happened? And look at all the wonderful people you've met on TAM  I'm sure you did have your share of fun with Sarah too. I bet there are other positives you can think of. Don't let this relationship make you bitter, maybe just a little wiser.


----------



## Quad73

Arthur, I had a horrid incident like you had with Sarah happen when I was a younger man. I used to go for walks and see her in every second woman's face. It was threatening to suck the good person right out of me. 

Do humanity a big favor and spend fewer years in that dark space than I did. It did me no good as a person, and there were many wonderful women in my life afterwards, but I carried some of that cynicism with me through those relationships.

This song used to echo in my brain too






I'm sure you can relate.

There have been studies done on ptsd cases (I'm not saying this is ptsd) that showed that if the victim is distracted from the incident asap after it happens, it embeds itself into the brain much less deeply. I wish I would have known that, and done more to distract myself, like your trip to Spain for example. Use your own example there, and keep distracting yourself until time has a chance to heal the wound - at a faster rate than if you keep thinking about her. 

I think you're doing great, all things considered - two thumbs up.


----------



## ArthurGPym

It's not that I distrust women now. Not at all. It is myself I don't trust. I don't trust my instincts, if I ever had instincts to begin with. Thing is I thought I was at a point in my life where I had burned through decades of purely superficial dating relationships and was feeling like I had finally met the woman I was going to settle down and spend the rest of my dotage with. Thing is, little did I know she had other plans. She was using me as a placeholder, nothing more, and I didn't see it.

It is not cynicism or misanthropy. I have extreme self-distrust right now. I wouldn't trust myself to pick a decent toothpaste right now.


----------



## jlg07

Arthur, maybe some IC to try and help you see what you ignored from Sarah initially that would maybe help you in your future relationships? If you don't trust yourself, you probably won't trust your own analysis of what went on, so maybe a 3rd party could help you do this?


----------



## Cynthia

ArthurGPym said:


> It's not that I distrust women now. Not at all. It is myself I don't trust. I don't trust my instincts, if I ever had instincts to begin with. Thing is I thought I was at a point in my life where I had burned through decades of purely superficial dating relationships and was feeling like I had finally met the woman I was going to settle down and spend the rest of my dotage with. Thing is, little did I know she had other plans. She was using me as a placeholder, nothing more, and I didn't see it.
> 
> It is not cynicism or misanthropy. I have extreme self-distrust right now. I wouldn't trust myself to pick a decent toothpaste right now.


I'm late to the party, but I'd light to weight in here. 
You are mindreading. You don't know that you were a placeholder. It is very likely that Sarah was as into you as you thought she was. When her mil died, she and her ex had a kind of trauma bonding and she was swept back into a time past in their relationship, when they were family. It is very likely that their shared grief was like a magnet.
Based on what you've said, it doesn't sound like you're radar is messed up. No one could have seen this coming.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Cynthia said:


> I'm late to the party, but I'd light to weight in here.
> You are mindreading. You don't know that you were a placeholder. It is very likely that Sarah was as into you as you thought she was. When her mil died, she and her ex had a kind of trauma bonding and she was swept back into a time past in their relationship, when they were family. It is very likely that their shared grief was like a magnet.
> Based on what you've said, it doesn't sound like you're radar is messed up. No one could have seen this coming.


I actually had a very similar thought. I don't have the benefit of @ArthurGPym hind sight of the whole relationship, but from what is posted here I've thought that the death was the trigger. It doesn't make it right, but I also don't think she had this planned, even subconsciously. I think you are right on that this put her back in time due to feeling grief for the MIL and sympathy for her ExH.


----------



## Quad73

ArthurGPym said:


> It's not that I distrust women now. Not at all. It is myself I don't trust. I don't trust my instincts, if I ever had instincts to begin with. Thing is I thought I was at a point in my life where I had burned through decades of purely superficial dating relationships and was feeling like I had finally met the woman I was going to settle down and spend the rest of my dotage with. Thing is, little did I know she had other plans. She was using me as a placeholder, nothing more, and I didn't see it.
> 
> It is not cynicism or misanthropy. I have extreme self-distrust right now. I wouldn't trust myself to pick a decent toothpaste right now.


I see. 

Just remove the word 'cynicism' from my post then. 

I'm actually heartened that you're not thinking Sarah's behavior is indicative of, well, general human behavior. 

After reading this, I'm hoping you're not placing too much responsibility for this on yourself either though. Nobody's picker is 90% foolproof.


----------



## Cynthia

To be clear, I don't condone her behavior towards you. Once she realized she had feeling for her ex, it seemed like she was trying to string you along while she made up her mind about what to do. I just don't think that her declarations of love and commitment towards you were lies to manipulate you. She seemed genuine until the death flipped that switch and she was back in the web of her former life.

I don't think you missed anything that was apparent early on. I don't think even Sarah knew that this was beneath the surface. Sometimes life is like this. There is way more beneath the surface than we can understand until something triggers a response that we weren't expecting.


----------



## Kamstel2

Please take it easy on yourself.

your ex put you through one of the worst types of hell I can imagine. It is only natural for you to still be dealing with this emotional turmoil and questioning everything about yourself.

deciding to begin dating again is a HUGE STEP! Be proud of yourself for even trying it!!!

so, ok, you tried it and realized you need some more time. There is nothing wrong with that. Many here are just concerned that you may go to the extreme and never be with another woman again. You will. But going through the dating process and then opening yourself up to another woman will be challenging. You are giving her the ability to hurt you like your ex hurt you. Giving someone that power requires a great deal of courage. But you will get there again, when you are ready and on your own timeline. What many are concerned with is that you will intentionally wall yourself off from the world, including women, because what your ex did to you. People here want to encourage you to not be afraid to take such a big step. But again, you will do it. You will ultimately take that huge step.

Hang in there. From my perspective, you are doing just fine. It takes time to get over the trauma your ex inflicted on you. And please remember, when the dark thoughts, self-doubt, and negative feelings come at you, you had NOTHING to do with this! This is all the result of a selfish, broken, and greatly flawed individual! And you could have been the PERFECT partner and did EVERYTHING right, and that selfish, broken, and greatly flawed person still would have done EXACTLY what she did.

Stay strong. I promise you will get through this. It will just be one step at a time.


----------



## Gabriel

ArthurGPym said:


> It's not that I distrust women now. Not at all. It is myself I don't trust. I don't trust my instincts, if I ever had instincts to begin with. Thing is I thought I was at a point in my life where I had burned through decades of purely superficial dating relationships and was feeling like I had finally met the woman I was going to settle down and spend the rest of my dotage with. Thing is, little did I know she had other plans. She was using me as a placeholder, nothing more, and I didn't see it.
> 
> It is not cynicism or misanthropy. I have extreme self-distrust right now. I wouldn't trust myself to pick a decent toothpaste right now.


Have you thought about just dating extremely casually in the meantime? Go for the slow burn?


----------



## SRCSRC

Dating can be difficult, especially if you are not great at it. That was my dilemma after my divorce. There is nothing much more disappointing than to go on a series of one-time dates where expectations seemed to always exceed reality no matter how hard I tried to manage them. I eventually dropped out of the dating world by casually dating someone for over a decade. That was not the answer. It numbed the pain of loneliness on Saturday nights, but just barely. My brother helped get me out of my malaise and soon thereafter I met my life partner.

I suspect that if your last date knocked your socks off, you would feel differently. But, alas, it seldom happens that way. At least that is my experience. 

You seem to be someone who doesn't have difficulty meeting women. Consequently, you are better off than many single men. Clearly, you have been around and have dated quite a bit since your divorce so I am not going to give you advice on what to do other than to try and manage expectations. Also, from reading your story, you don't strike me as someone who intends on being a monk. 

So, you really have no choice. You will get back out there. You must also knock Sarah off her pedestal once and for all. I failed to do that with my first serious girlfriend after my divorce. I wasted way too many years trying to replace her with someone just like her including her name. When I look back, I realize that I dodged a bullet. Things that endeared me to her many years ago, turn me off today.


----------



## Davit Bek

@ArthurGPym I know many people who would just use others to get over an ex. The fact that you are so honest with yourself, and considerate of her becoming a "victim of your uncertainties" speaks volumes about your character. You are among the very few with class.

As for distrusting women or men, no one should be trusted unless that trust is built over time. My guess is you're just not in the best place right now. I have no doubt that your principals will guide you well through this. You just need more time. 

And lastly, of course a person's past matters. True measure of character is how one acts and not what one says. A good predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Can people change? Sure, but I'm not going to take that gamble on a relationship. 

Lastly, my only advice is keep your friendship alive with the Viet girl as much as possible. Text her whenever you have a better day. Perhaps a good friendship can come out of it. All the best to you.


----------



## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> It's not that I distrust women now. Not at all. It is myself I don't trust. I don't trust my instincts, if I ever had instincts to begin with. Thing is I thought I was at a point in my life where I had burned through decades of purely superficial dating relationships and was feeling like I had finally met the woman I was going to settle down and spend the rest of my dotage with. Thing is, little did I know she had other plans. She was using me as a placeholder, nothing more, and I didn't see it.
> 
> It is not cynicism or misanthropy. I have extreme self-distrust right now. I wouldn't trust myself to pick a decent toothpaste right now.


basically, you're acting like those people that "almost" drowned and were saved just in the nick of time, and because of it never get close to the waters again. FEAR. You can't let fear dictate your life.


----------



## gr8ful1

Rob_1 said:


> basically, you're acting like those people that "almost" drowned and were saved just in the nick of time, and because of it never get close to the waters again. FEAR. You can't let fear dictate your life.


My wife was damn near killed while road cycling with me, hit from behind by a distracted driver doing 60. She’ll most likely never get on a bike again and I can’t blame her for that. Giving up relationships altogether is obviously more extreme than refusing to get back in the saddle but I can understand AGP’s reluctance to dive back in just yet….


----------



## Megaforce

I wonder if, with more time and distance, you will look back and see some red flags. Maybe not. But, indo and ot buy for a minute that her X MIL's death was some sort of trigger. Just seems too trite.


----------



## lifeistooshort

gr8ful1 said:


> My wife was damn near killed while road cycling with me, hit from behind by a distracted driver doing 60. She’ll most likely never get on a bike again and I can’t blame her for that. Giving up relationships altogether is obviously more extreme than refusing to get back in the saddle but I can understand AGP’s reluctance to dive back in just yet….


That's terrible...I'm so glad she's ok.

We road cycle too and not only know people who have been seriously injured by drivers....we know people who has been killed. There's a memory ride this weekend for a guy that was killed last year.

I can think of 3 people off the top of my head that were seriously injured by distracted drivers...2 were in medically induced comas with questionable outcomes.

All 3 are riding again, but to your point some people don't get back in the saddle.

It goes to show how different peoples risk tolerance are and how different people come back to different degrees after trauma. I think relationships that end badly have the same kind of distribution.


----------



## Rob_1

gr8ful1 said:


> My wife was damn near killed while road cycling with me, hit from behind by a distracted driver doing 60. She’ll most likely never get on a bike again and I can’t blame her for that. Giving up relationships altogether is obviously more extreme than refusing to get back in the saddle but I can understand AGP’s reluctance to dive back in just yet….


Sorry about your wife. I hope she's all right now. I used to think that only in third world countries drivers were nuts on wheels, but obviously the US is coming not to far behind; which is one of the reasons I never drive a bike on any roads other than bike trails at parks that have them.

I'm sure that eventually @ArthurGPym will get back in the saddle again, but not just yet.


----------



## jlg07

lifeistooshort said:


> That's terrible...I'm so glad she's ok.
> 
> We road cycle too and not only know people who have been seriously injured by drivers....we know people who has been killed. There's a memory ride this weekend for a guy that was killed last year.
> 
> I can think of 3 people off the top of my head that were seriously injured by distracted drivers...2 were in medically induced comas with questionable outcomes.
> 
> All 3 are riding again, but to your point some people don't get back in the saddle.
> 
> It goes to show how different peoples risk tolerance are and how different people come back to different degrees after trauma. I think relationships that end badly have the same kind of distribution.


This is why I only ride on our rail-trails.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Tdbo said:


> Nothing wring with that.
> Take some time and get your s*** sorted.
> Get mentally stronger and gird your loins.
> Because the "Opera" osn't over for you yet, I'm afraid.


Interesting you predicted that. Lately over the past week or so I have gotten calls from common friends of ours asking me how I am doing. Just out of the blue. Some are people I have not talked to since I broke up with her. I am polite but while I'm talking to them I'm thinking "Why the hell are you calling me?" The talk is superficial and pointless. I'm thinking Sarah is sending out her birdies gathering intel on me. I'm thinking of just screening all my calls from now on.


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## ABHale

This is crazy, they know that she monkey branched with you to the ex and they are still checking on you for her.


----------



## Taxman

If the birdies are circling, Sarah has most likely figured out that she screwed up big time. Your move of going away probably rocked her world. She gets stuck with the ex, knowing that she probably alienated you. So she sticks until she cannot. History can be unforgiving, and she knew that he was not worth her time and destruction of her relationship with you. So it may be over with her ex. Her friends are now doing recon. They want to see if you are open to restarting with her. I would let her friends know how deeply you were hurt, and that Sarah has lost any chance with you. That will likely get her into the mode of openly campaigning for your forgiveness and willingness to go back to her. I would not venture to give you advice on that, as I would string her along and then dump her unceremoniously. But then again, I can be petty and vengeful.


----------



## Cynthia

Taxman said:


> I would not venture to give you advice on that, as I would string her along and then dump her unceremoniously.


This would start the whole process all over again. More pain for @ArthurGPym too.


----------



## Andy1001

Taxman said:


> If the birdies are circling, Sarah has most likely figured out that she screwed big time.That will likely get her into the mode of openly campaigning for your forgiveness and willingness to go back to her. I would not venture to give you advice on that, as I would string her along and then dump her unceremoniously. But then again, I can be petty and vengeful.


Maybe suggest a fwb or a **** buddy relationship?
I can be petty and vengeful too lol.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> Interesting you predicted that. Lately over the past week or so I have gotten calls from common friends of ours asking me how I am doing. Just out of the blue. Some are people I have not talked to since I broke up with her. I am polite but while I'm talking to them I'm thinking "Why the hell are you calling me?" The talk is superficial and pointless. I'm thinking Sarah is sending out her birdies gathering intel on me. I'm thinking of just screening all my calls from now on.


I told you my story earlier in the thread.
The parallels are there between your saga and mine.
It took years to extract myself from her, and the only thing that ended it was my getting married.
Bunny Boilers will boil. You can make book on that.


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## Quad73

Tdbo said:


> I told you my story earlier in the thread.
> The parallels are there between your saga and mine.
> It took years to extract myself from her, and the only thing that ended it was my getting married.
> Bunny Boilers will boil. You can make book on that.


This is why I'd tell those friends of hers that I'm dating and frankly glad to have her out of my life. Polite, strong signal to cut out the recon etc. No indication of hurt feelings, I have a nasty suspicion that would just give Sarah another opening.


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## Kamstel2

Taxman has to be the wisest person here!!!

I’m in agreement that it probably means she and ex are broken up, again, at least for now. And she has the little birdies checking on your status.
If she is completely out of your system, then a little revenge and degradation could be amusing. Have any fantasies you thought were too sick and twisted???? Just a thought.

Good luck and stay strong!


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## Chuck71

OP....... stay away from spider webs.


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## Marc878

Cynthia said:


> This would start the whole process all over again. More pain for @ArthurGPym too.


Yes, a waste of time.


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Interesting you predicted that. Lately over the past week or so I have gotten calls from common friends of ours asking me how I am doing. Just out of the blue. Some are people I have not talked to since I broke up with her. I am polite but while I'm talking to them I'm thinking "Why the hell are you calling me?" The talk is superficial and pointless. I'm thinking Sarah is sending out her birdies gathering intel on me. I'm thinking of just screening all my calls from now on.


Cut them off. They aren’t your friends.


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## Evinrude58

Why isn’t there a super like tab for taxman’s posts????


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## Chuck71

OP............ Gutpunch....... check it out


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## Beach123

There’s nothing wrong with learning to have a great time on your own. I’ve done it for 15 years after my 27 year marriage ended.
My exH really burned me in a bad way that left me not trusting men much. Maybe I should say it takes a LOT for a man to earn my trust.
I do have great role models for healthy men in my life and that has helped. 
But my default is that men will be mean to me - so I work on that philosophy NOT being true.

So for a while just have fun. Have fun on your own and have fun with friends. Someone will catch your eye along the way and you’ll start again.
Meditate to trust your intuition - it brings clarity. Also, a good trauma counselor is priceless.


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## ArthurGPym

So I talked with Barb last night and and she confirmed that Sarah and her ex are again broken up, this time for good apparently.  Sarah is back alone and apparently not doing too well. Barb says she saw her last week and she looks like hell. 

Barb told me to ignore all the people calling me and asking if I am going to get back together with Sarah. She says as far as she knows it is not Sarah instigating these people, but rather they are all rubberneckers looking to watch some drama and hoping I'll try to get back together with her just to watch the show. Barb is of the opinion that Sarah knows I am no longer an option and that she blew it bad. As for all the onlookers, I have blocked them each and every one. They are parasites. Also, Barb says that she has pretty much washed her hands of Sarah and has little to do with her anymore. Their friendship is basically over. Barb says she and her husband are not going to continue enabling Sarah while she makes one bad choice after another. You would have to know Barb to understand why Barb would turn her back on a two-decade BFF friendship. Well, it is because Barb is a no-nonsense person who doesn't suffer fools lightly. She warned Sarah not to go back to her ex and excoriated her when she did, and told her she was an idiot for tossing me aside.


----------



## GusPolinski

Be on the lookout for a call regarding some sort of crisis with her son.


----------



## Taxman

So Arthur, pretty much as we predicted. Be wary.


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## Tdbo

I agree with the previous two posts.
There will be some kind of "Manufactured" crisis with your Ex, designed to reel you in.
Perhaps her and the kid get into it, and he splits. He's going to reach out to you.
I'm sure that it is because of his respect for you, FUELED by the fact that he wants you back in his and his Mom's life.
Ex is home mopey and miserable. Eventually, she's gonna take a swing at getting back together.
Attempted calls, texts, cards, letters, gifts, etc may be very well coming your way.
You may come home some night and find her on your stoop.
She'll probably say or do anything to get you back.
Stay strong. You have taken the best action possible, blocking the "Circusbarkers."
This has not even started to play out yet.


----------



## Marc878

GusPolinski said:


> Be on the lookout for a call regarding some sort of crisis with her son.


Or showing up in a raincoat with nothing underneath it.


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> ... rubberneckers ...


Arthur, you wouldn't be from my home state of Rhode Island, would you?


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> Interesting you predicted that. Lately over the past week or so I have gotten calls from common friends of ours asking me how I am doing. Just out of the blue. Some are people I have not talked to since I broke up with her. I am polite but while I'm talking to them I'm thinking "Why the hell are you calling me?" The talk is superficial and pointless. I'm thinking Sarah is sending out her birdies gathering intel on me. I'm thinking of just screening all my calls from now on.



The common friends are not really your friends but hers. She is fishing for information that is the only reason they are contacting you.

If you have no objections or use for these people block or ignore any efforts they make to communicate with you. Discard them.


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## ArthurGPym

Galabar01 said:


> Arthur, you wouldn't be from my home state of Rhode Island, would you?


No. Cali boy born and bred.


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> No. Cali boy born and bred.


Yeah, I guess if you had been from Rhode Island, it would have been "Rubba-Necka".


----------



## ArthurGPym

Galabar01 said:


> Yeah, I guess if you had been from Rhode Island, it would have been "Rubba-Necka".


Truth.


----------



## ArthurGPym

marko polo said:


> The common friends are not really your friends but hers. She is fishing for information that is the only reason they are contacting you.
> 
> If you have no objections or use for these people block or ignore any efforts they make to communicate with you. Discard them.


It's all weird. I guess I had the love goggles on and wasn't able to see her friends for the immature infants they are. Now that I look back with clearer eyes, all her crowd acted more like partying college kids than adults. I partied myself out in the '80s. I have lived every type of debauchery there is and then some, but those morons just never knew when to leave the party.


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## Marc878

Now you know. Leave em in the dust. You aren’t losing a thing.


----------



## jonty30

ArthurGPym said:


> It's all weird. I guess I had the love goggles on and wasn't able to see her friends for the immature infants they are. Now that I look back with clearer eyes, all her crowd acted more like partying college kids than adults. I partied myself out in the '80s. I have lived every type of debauchery there is and then some, but those morons just never knew when to leave the party.


She hasn't quite grown as much as you. If you try to restrict you, she will resent you and do what she wants anyway. You'll end up divorcing her on her terms and to her advantage, not yours.


----------



## ArthurGPym

jonty30 said:


> She hasn't quite grown as much as you. If you try to restrict you, she will resent you and do what she wants anyway. You'll end up divorcing her on her terms and to her advantage, not yours.


It's funny. One night many months ago before the breakup she and some of the friends were sitting around a fire pit talking about all the "crazy" stuff they did in high school and college, and I was just smiling and shaking my head. So when it got round to me I didn't say a word, because if I told them stuff I had done back when I was in bands and living the rock and roll life, Sarah probably would have broken up with me right then and there.


----------



## ArthurGPym

If you guys get me drunk enough I may tell you about a game we played back in the day called "swing 'n snatch". It consisted of a semi nude girl, a swing, a bed, and a crowd of horny, coked up guys.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> If you guys get me drunk enough I may tell you about a game we played back in the day called "swing 'n snatch". It consisted of a semi nude girl, a swing, a bed, and a crowd of horny, coked up guys.


That sounds like one hell of a fun time, lol.

I did so many things when I was younger that I will take to my grave. My wife has heard a lot of them, but there are some that even after 30+ years she would say WTF?


----------



## Taxman

Hate to tell you Arthur, that stories of debauchery in many circles attract women. It casts a "bad boy" image on even the straightest looking guy. You might have created a dynamic where her friends would try to break you up so they could be with you. Aside from that, this whole thing smacks of immaturity on Sarah's part and her friends. This is so "high school" it turns my stomach. Sounds to me as if Sarah has such utter lack of maturity that she could be convinced back into a toxic relationship that had failed previously. As I have stated before, be wary. I am hearing the beginnings of a scenario where her girlfriends will be calling you to tell you how bad she is doing, how she misses what you had, and how BAD she feels for making a gigantic mistake and how you should not hold it against her, and how you should be her knight in shining armor. Blah blah blah. Reality has a way of smacking the monumentally stupid in the face.


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> It's funny. One night many months ago before the breakup she and some of the friends were sitting around a fire pit talking about all the "crazy" stuff they did in high school and college, and I was just smiling and shaking my head. So when it got round to me I didn't say a word, because if I told them stuff I had done back when I was in bands and living the rock and roll life, Sarah probably would have broken up with me right then and there.


_Sarah probably would have broken up with me right then and there._

No. As a narcissist her little crew is there to validate her but not outshine her. If you had shared your exploits she unfortunately would have held on to you tighter. Your adventures would have made her friends look like adolescents and fools that they are. Your past exploits would have also triggered her insecurities.

At some point she would have used your wild days against you - trying to shame into compliance. Certainly she would use your past in an effort to smear you after you left. You were wise to keep quiet and let your past stay in the past.


----------



## Quad73

ArthurGPym said:


> It's all weird. I guess I had the love goggles on and wasn't able to see her friends for the immature infants they are. Now that I look back with clearer eyes, all her crowd acted more like partying college kids than adults. I partied myself out in the '80s. I have lived every type of debauchery there is and then some, but those morons just never knew when to leave the party.


Arthur that's interesting, how everything is being reassessed in hindsight. Do you find it's making it easier for you to deal with the past / Sarah, or worse?


----------



## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> It's all weird. I guess I had the love goggles on and wasn't able to see her friends for the immature infants they are. Now that I look back with clearer eyes, all her crowd acted more like partying college kids than adults. I partied myself out in the '80s. I have lived every type of debauchery there is and then some, but those morons just never knew when to leave the party.


Excellent observation. Now, apply that knowledge on your next prospect. When I dated I simply asked women about their mom, dad, brothers, sisters and friends. How she discusses her life with others close to her will tell you everything you need to know. 

Additionally, TV watching, and many other general discussion topics will clue you on her values. For example a person that believes in God and professes to live strongly by those principles, may not be who she or he says she is if their actions show no such foundation, even if attending church each Sunday. Actions are the key.

My wife's sisters are men repellent and her brother was a heavy drug user. I listened closely to my then girlfriend's love and compassion for others, knowing those are the qualities that can make a relationship sustainable when tested. I also listened closely to how she thought about her previous boyfriends and integrated outside interests into her life. 

Many men are smitten with a woman who wishes to be with them 24/7. For me it's the opposite. If a woman (or man) can't find joy outside of the significant other, then they're susceptible to becoming unhappy when you're not around for valid reasons. 

Having said that, their is no way one can guarantee not getting connected with an idiot. You can only rely on your collective wisdom from life's experiences and hope your lucky. I lucked up with my wife, but had two fiancés and another girlfriend cheat on me before her. The interesting thing is had I not been cheated on, I wouldn't have met my wife of over 20 years.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


----------



## Evinrude58

Lol, you messed up ….. it happens…


----------



## Beach123

Oh well, at least now she knows how you feel. 🤣
Don’t do that again.


----------



## ABHale

Your not the first or last to do this. Don’t take it to hard.

I really wish I could have listened in on it.

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬👍👍👍👍👍👍


----------



## jonty30

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


As long as there is no risk of physical violence from them, you'll be ok.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Remain still. Stay silent. Stay calm....


----------



## Tdbo

You fed the Dramallama.
Never feed the Dramallama.
Now she knows she owns real estate in your head.
Best to lay low. Way low.


----------



## farsidejunky

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


Her army at least tells you who is and is not your friend. 

As for you...no alcohol for a while. And follow what NLLH said: be still. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc878

Bud, any contact resets the clock.


----------



## skerzoid

From now on act with strength and honor, and let her remember you that way to the end of her days.


----------



## Beach123

I’m glad you gave her a piece of your mind - she deserved it! And you’ve needed to tell her how that horrible situation made you feel - and what a purposeful jerk she was.

But now that it’s said and done - don’t interact with her anymore…it will only feed the dragon.


----------



## fluffycoco

Maybe you should call her and beg her to forgive you, tell her she is the love of your life. I think you should do it, 
I feel your pain all these months, you are half dying man


----------



## Chuck71

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


Well.... that was a F'up waiting to happen.......


----------



## Lostinthought61

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


honestly it's not like she didn't have it coming


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


Dumb, but you are only human. Don't get too hung up on it.


----------



## Rus47

ArthurGPym : We all make mistakes, and you are still dealing with the harm this woman has done. Not unusual for alcohol to remove inhibitions. It is hard to forget and move on when there are constant reminders. Wish had useful advice of how to uncouple from this person and her "army",. Your trip to Spain was a brilliant way to achieve that, unfortunately it wasn't permanent. It's too bad you can't leave the area where you are and begin anew elsewhere.


----------



## Livvie

This clearly shows you are not ready to seriously date someone else, though. I'd dump like a hot rock a man I was dating who was still thinking about an ex this much.


----------



## ABHale

I think letting out what is eating you up is very therapeutic. Even if it is telling a cheater exactly what you think of them and their actions.

I don’t believe it resets a clock or proves that someone isn’t ready to date.

It was something deep down that Arthur needed to say. He said it so end of the need.


----------



## Gabriel

Well, crap. What compelled you to suddenly do this? Was there a trigger?


----------



## SunCMars

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


You got your' conscience drunk, and the big-mouth within, took his long-awaited shot.

This is not called, closure, but amounts to slamming the door off its hinges.

I might add, if she reflects on what you said, and later 'forgives' you, you have something to work with here, with her.

You never know...

This will tell you if she is capable of self-reflection, self-criticism.

That said, you may not give a damn, either way from next Sunday.



_KB-_


----------



## GusPolinski

Do you feel better now that you’ve gotten all that off your chest, @ArthurGPym?


----------



## Tdbo

Gabriel said:


> Well, crap. What compelled you to suddenly do this? Was there a trigger?


I think Mr. Al K. Hall was involved in this compulsion.


----------



## Tdbo

SunCMars said:


> I might add, if she reflects on what you said, and later 'forgives' you, you have something to work with here, with her.


That's the problem. 
Muffikins has been reengaged.


----------



## SRCSRC

It was unfortunate that you met Sarah so soon after her divorce. It might have made a difference if several years had transpired before you started dating her. Clearly, with a divorce so recent, unfinished business played a role in her returning to her ex-husband. Is she ready to finally move on and totally commit to someone new? Who knows. She may ping pong back and forth a few more times before they are done for good. They may ultimately finally end up together. Sadly, you were unknowingly caught up in this dynamic. 
I disagree with those that advise you not to date. Just the opposite. It is time to move on. It's been over for about five months. The relationship was about two years long. You were not married and did not live together. While it would be foolish for me to minimize your feelings for Sarah (I have been exactly in your shoes with my first girlfriend after I divorced), some perspective is needed on your part. Look at the relationship for what it was, not for what you wished it could have been. It was relatively short, you weren't married, engaged, or living together. Unbeknown to you, she still had unfinished business with her ex-husband. You know this, now you must accept it and move on. 
You have licked your wounds long enough. Dating can be a real pain and laced with disappointment. I am sure you know this fact. But sitting around getting drunk and stoned is not the solution. 
You strike me as someone who has little trouble meeting women. That is a real plus. You seem to have much to offer. I don't know your dating history, but your marriage was very short. How long had your other relationships lasted? If they also have been of short duration, you need to take a serious look as to why that is the case. 
Nevertheless, sitting around fixating on Sarah is a waste of time and obviously damaging. So you should do one of two things: (1) Get out there again and start dating. Keep expectations low and do not try and find someone to exactly duplicate Sarah. I tried that after being dumped by my first girlfriend after divorce and that was simply foolish because my vision of her was a fantasy. (2) Make another run at Sarah. It might work, but the odds are against it. There will be gigantic trust issues that would have to be overcome and statistically, the odds of success are poor (I looked into the stats when trying to get back with my ex-girlfriend). I don't recommend you try it but you may be compelled to do so in order to finally flush her out of your system. That's my two cents.


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


Live and learn. Block and delete her number to avoid a repeat slip up.

Unfortunately you have sent some much needed fuel her way. Love and hate are equally good sources of fuel to her. The fools in her service will do their best to provoke you further.

Keep a VAR with you. Set up cameras on your property. Document, document, document any calls, threats and stupidity sent your way. You have the means so should you have actionable proof go after whomever you are able to through your lawyer. It is unlikely you will be able to go after her directly as she is using her proxies / army. Proving her involvement would be costly and likely difficult.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

fluffycoco said:


> Maybe you should call her and beg her to forgive you, tell her she is the love of your life. I think you should do it,
> I feel your pain all these months, you are half dying man


Wtf?? Who ARE you??

Arthur I thought you blocked her army? And don’t beat yourself up, we all do these things at some point. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Galabar01

You are only human. Don't be too hard on yourself.

It's time to regroup. You've said what you needed to say. Now, move on. Let it go.

We have faith in you!!!


----------



## marko polo

Perhaps you should revisit your course of action when you first jettisoned Sarah - one month in Spain, out of Sarah's reach and in the company of another woman. 

This time you should consider the next 2 or 3 months in Spain or somewhere equally as appealing. Find other companionship / women. Leave Sarah and her foolish friends behind. This time instruct the house sitter not to say when you will return. He/she can and should tell them where you are vacationing (in general, no specifics). You want to offer her that little tweak that will put her over the edge - *that you are out of her reach* and *she has no power over your life* and *you will continue to enjoy life without her*.


----------



## Edmund

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


AGP this was a terrible mistake and way out of character for you. If you really did this, whatever you said doesn't matter, what you actually showed her is that she is still so important to you that you haven't gotten over her after all these months of no contact. (Whether or not she still wants you after this, she will be pleased that she still means that much to you and is your head and heart.) Now you have lost the "high road" and can't get it back. At the very least, you now have to call her back sober (or write a letter if she won't take your call) and sincerely apologize. Don't try to blame it on drugs/alcohol. There is no excuse. What will her son think now? You should think hard and not be so stubborn. Do you really want her back and can't admit it to yourself? If so, go back to dating her and see how it goes (I am guessing not well). But do not propose or marry her. Just my 2 cents, no offense intended.


----------



## jonty30

Edmund said:


> AGP this was a terrible mistake and way out of character for you. If you really did this, whatever you said doesn't matter, what you actually showed her is that she is still so important to you that you haven't gotten over her after all these months of no contact. (Whether or not she still wants you after this, she will be pleased that she still means that much to you and is your head and heart.) Now you have lost the "high road" and can't get it back. At the very least, you now have to call her back sober (or write a letter if she won't take your call) and sincerely apologize. Don't try to blame it on drugs/alcohol. There is no excuse. What will her son think now? You should think hard and not be so stubborn. Do you really want her back and can't admit it to yourself? If so, go back to dating her and see how it goes (I am guessing not well). But do not propose or marry her. Just my 2 cents, no offense intended.


An apology doesn't matter. She doesn't want to come back. The moment she's hooked another man or has finished her education, she will be gone.


----------



## Marc878

She is who she is. At that age change isn’t in the cards.


----------



## Chuck71

Sarah will do the same thing she did to OP, to her next guy. Hopefully OP does not want

Round II. With Sarah it is learned behavior. I wonder what really happened to cause her

and her XHs divorce. Chances are OP was never told entire truth.


----------



## georgel316000

Did Sarah say anything during your rant? Sarah's "army"....what are they saying to you? They must know what she did to you. I would expect them to say "good for you".


----------



## manowar

Divinely Favored said:


> Right !!! I wish i knew 30 yrs ago what i know now. It took many years to undo the beta husband programming i received as a child from my parents behavior toward each other.


Dont we all. The social conditioning is incredibly powerful Beyond words really. 



ArthurGPym said:


> I mean I'm tired mentally. I just don't have it in me to go in and put on my best face and act the role of Mr. Cool. It just turns me off thinking about it.


So true and so common of guys 50+. Older women expecting men to pursue are in for a rude awakening. It ain't going to happen.


----------



## ArthurGPym

georgel316000 said:


> Did Sarah say anything during your rant? Sarah's "army"....what are they saying to you? They must know what she did to you. I would expect them to say "good for you".


I don't know. Most of our common friends I blocked the same day. I'm only still friends with two or three people. 

I also deactivated my Facebook. Best thing I ever did, but man did people go apeshit when I did it! Wow! I might as well have poured gasoline on myself and lit myself on fire.


----------



## ArthurGPym

jonty30 said:


> An apology doesn't matter. She doesn't want to come back. The moment she's hooked another man or has finished her education, she will be gone.


This.


----------



## Tdbo

jonty30 said:


> An apology doesn't matter. She doesn't want to come back. The moment she's hooked another man or has finished her education, she will be gone.


She is not deserving of an apology.
AGP still has not heard the last of this one.
AGP will be best served by cutting as many tethers to her as he can.
She screwed up and she knows it. She is waiting for a way to slither back in. 
Unfortunately, AGP may have opened the door for her.
Her family dysfunction regarding her son may draw him back in again, due to the rapport he has with the son.
Fortunately, AGP seems to be steadfast in his position that he is done.
Hopefully lashing out at her is his closure, and he can stay strong.
The biggest problem with her is that she will probably never find her paradise.
That's what makes her the most dangerous and unstable.


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> I also deactivated my Facebook. Best thing I ever did, but man did people go apeshit when I did it! Wow! I might as well have poured gasoline on myself and lit myself on fire.


Revel in the chaos.


----------



## skerzoid

For what reason did they go nuts on you?


----------



## Beach123

Why would her friends defend her behavior? Those must be some backwards friendships.


----------



## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> I don't know. Most of our common friends I blocked the same day. I'm only still friends with two or three people.
> 
> I also deactivated my Facebook. Best thing I ever did, but man did people go apeshit when I did it! Wow! I might as well have poured gasoline on myself and lit myself on fire.


You’ll find that for the most part Fakebook is a waste of time. Cellphones get you anything you need.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> You’ll find that for the most part Fakebook is a waste of time. Cellphones get you anything you need.


I don't miss it at all. Don't know why I thought I needed it.


----------



## ABHale

I use Facebook market place. I have found some really good deals. I have my account set up so no one can search my name.


----------



## TDSC60

I got Facebook because a co-worker said it was how he stayed in contact with his grown children. It was one of the worst decisions I have ever made. It is just a vehicle that generates massive amounts of spam emails.


----------



## ArthurGPym

TDSC60 said:


> I got Facebook because a co-worker said it was how he stayed in contact with his grown children. It was one of the worst decisions I have ever made. It is just a vehicle that generates massive amounts of spam emails.


It is more trouble than it is worth. I'm going back to strictly email.


----------



## Galabar01

ArthurGPym said:


> It is more trouble than it is worth. I'm going back to strictly email.


I gave up Facebook (and Twitter, and everything else) years ago. One of the best decisions I ever made.


----------



## jparistotle

ArthurGPym said:


> I messed up bad. I called her last night. I was drunk and stoned. I ripped her ass up one side and down the other and told her what a stupid, vacuous twit she was. She hung up on me of course but not before I got in some more deadly jabs. Now I have her army after me. Idiot. F8cking idiot.


You are better than this. Apologize to her and move on. No one deserves that especially when it is form your view only. DO THE RIGHT THING and close this chapter.


----------



## Tdbo

jparistotle said:


> You are better than this. Apologize to her and move on. No one deserves that especially when it is form your view only. DO THE RIGHT THING and close this chapter.


No, he doesn't need to open up another can of Cream O'Drama soup.
AGP needs closure. 
Muffy deserved every syllable, given the crap she pulled on him.
If the first can is used up, no need to open a second.
Besides, Muffy will probably do that of her own volition.
There's no way that this is over, given her MO towards men.
If AGP is lucky enough to have this be over, let it lie.


----------



## jparistotle

Tdbo said:


> No, he doesn't need to open up another can of Cream O'Drama soup.
> AGP needs closure.
> Muffy deserved every syllable, given the crap she pulled on him.
> If the first can is used up, no need to open a second.
> Besides, Muffy will probably do that of her own volition.
> There's no way that this is over, given her MO towards men.
> If AGP is lucky enough to have this be over, let it lie.


He already opened that can. Sorry I have yelled at people and not felt good about it. I then apologized. if that is the type of person you want to be then so be it. It is the me generation I guess. She screwed up and that is her cross to deal with. From what I see she knew it and tried to caome back and he blew her off. That should have been the end to it. The call was uncalled for. He had already moved on and that should have been the end of it. Not sure why we cannot be better PEOPLE. Must be the new age.


----------



## Evinrude58

I disagree. When one is treated like OP was by his ex gf, she deserves the call she got. I personally think it helped HER out, not so much him. He should have kept her ghosted. 
being ghosted is exactly what she deserved. 
but a good tongue lashing was a pretty minor consequence in my opinion. 
Worrying about the feelings of a person that was given everything and appreciated nothing, and showed no loyalty whatsoever— her feelings should be as unimportant and she made him.


----------



## Cynthia

There is a time and a place to give someone a piece of your mind. Perhaps it ought to have been done earlier, but what's done is done. Making amends is one of the 12 steps, but it is with caution that you don't poke the bear. You make amends, if it's reasonable, but if it will only make matters worse, you let it go. I think this is a situation where it's better to let it go, unless she continues harassment through any means, then I'd call her and tell her to stop or you will consider a restraining order to stop the harassment.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

The man's heart was broken, he went off on the one who hurt him, right or wrong, what's done is done... @ArthurGPym , NC is your friend from then forward, but you know that already. Just cool it on the alcohol before that becomes an issue.


----------



## Tdbo

jparistotle said:


> He already opened that can. Sorry I have yelled at people and not felt good about it. I then apologized. if that is the type of person you want to be then so be it. It is the me generation I guess. She screwed up and that is her cross to deal with. From what I see she knew it and tried to caome back and he blew her off. That should have been the end to it. The call was uncalled for. He had already moved on and that should have been the end of it. Not sure why we cannot be better PEOPLE. Must be the new age.


The point is that presently there is no contact between them.
He needs to do his part to keep it that way.
Reengaging her does nothing to meet that objective.
She will more than likely make that move. You can make book on that.


----------



## GusPolinski

Oh no… AGP called his cheating ex while drunk and said some not nice stuff to her!

How will she ever recover from this unmitigated horror?!?

😳😲😭😢🥲😂🤣


----------



## Divinely Favored

She might be thinking..."He still cares😍 or he would not be soo upset". When someone is dead to you, do not go dig them up!


----------



## ABHale

No one just stops caring about someone, that is a given. Arthur ripping into her like he did told her exactly what and how he thinks of her despite still having feelings for her.


----------



## Megaforce

Just ghost her going forward. In time, you will have forgotten her.


----------



## Chuck71

OP made a mistake....... 99% do. Move on from this. Move forward, without her.

Now that you know her chaos tub is vast... would you wish to bathe with her?

Simple as that....


----------



## ArthurGPym

I have no plans to apologize. I've made an ass out of myself enough for this year and filled my quota.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ArthurGPym said:


> I have no plans to apologize. I've made an ass out of myself enough for this year and filled my quota.


No need to apologize, I don’t think you did anything wrong! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Quad73

ArthurGPym said:


> I have no plans to apologize. I've made an ass out of myself enough for this year and filled my quota.


New Years is coming up and there's a great symbolic opportunity here. Forget 2021, do a complete reset and look forwards only from Jan 1st onward. Wipe away the mistake (you're only human) and go for the clean slate. All the best Arthur, you're an inspiration here.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

ArthurGPym said:


> I have no plans to apologize. I've made an ass out of myself enough for this year and filled my quota.


Don't worry, a new year is right around the corner


----------



## Megaforce

Sounds like no big deal. Any halfway competent person( and that is always questionable with a cheater) would realize she had this coming to her. Probably stroked her ego a bit, actually.
Realize going forward that this type of person relishes any attention, negative or positive. Why gratify her?

This is a very flawed( more than a typical person) individual. Go no contact.


----------



## jonty30

ArthurGPym said:


> I have no plans to apologize. I've made an ass out of myself enough for this year and filled my quota.


You still have a few days left before the year is finished. 😁


----------



## ArthurGPym

Wanted to give a bit of an update. I am doing very well. The holidays were full and busy and I spent most of it with family and doing a little traveling. I have not heard from Sarah or any of our mutual friends and that suits me fine. I have blocked calls from most if not all of those people and deactivated my FB account. I have had a few dates with various women and a couple one night stands and I am gradually going back to the bachelor I was prior to when I met Sarah. 

I have pretty much locked the door on my heart. No more allowing myelf to feel for another woman. I won't make that mistake again. I can continue to meet single women and have unattached fun with them in order to meet my physical yearnings. I am not lonley as I have lots of friends, my dogs and my hobbies to fulfil me. I am walking and exercising daily and have actually lost a lot of weight since my split with Sarah. I feel good, look good and and have a good outlook on the future. 

I want to thank all of you for your support and for kicking me in the ass when I needed it. TAM has been a blessing. I will continue to stick around and help where I can.


----------



## jsmart

I’m glad to hear that you’re continuing to move your life in a positive direction. In time you will wan to let down the protective shield around your heart. Even with a full social life, we men are not meant to only have short superficial relationships with women. We all yearn for a deep love from a woman that we can love and cherish but that will not happen if you only go knee deep in a relationship. To truly find love, you’ll eventually have go into deeper waters.


----------



## Tdbo

Glad to hear that you are sorting yourself out well.
Getting yourself out of that group will have positive benefits for yourself, as well.
It is probably best that you have put up the emotional wall until you have fully healed.
However, do not allow yourself to be controlled by the negative ending that you had with her.
Do not give her the power to control your destiny. There are a lot of good women out there that want and desire a good man like you. They also have the maturity and morality to value them, and treat them right.
What you need to do is learn from your experience and make the necessary adjustments. You may want to consider how you vet a woman that you become serious with and observe their "Natural Habitat." It appears that you had some serious questions about the people she hangs with. As my Grandmother used to say "Birds of a feather, flock together." If you don't like the birds, you probably won't like the broad.
I'm glad to hear that she is leaving you the hell alone. If she really cares, that is probably the best way she can demonstrate it to you. I hope she continues to do so, for your sake. I still have a feeling that something will happen that will break this silence. Hopefully, you have a strategy to deal with that if that occurs.
Stay strong.


----------



## Gabriel

ArthurGPym said:


> Wanted to give a bit of an update. I am doing very well. The holidays were full and busy and I spent most of it with family and doing a little traveling. I have not heard from Sarah or any of our mutual friends and that suits me fine. I have blocked calls from most if not all of those people and deactivated my FB account. I have had a few dates with various women and a couple one night stands and I am gradually going back to the bachelor I was prior to when I met Sarah.
> 
> I have pretty much locked the door on my heart. No more allowing myelf to feel for another woman. I won't make that mistake again. I can continue to meet single women and have unattached fun with them in order to meet my physical yearnings. I am not lonley as I have lots of friends, my dogs and my hobbies to fulfil me. I am walking and exercising daily and have actually lost a lot of weight since my split with Sarah. I feel good, look good and and have a good outlook on the future.
> 
> I want to thank all of you for your support and for kicking me in the ass when I needed it. TAM has been a blessing. I will continue to stick around and help where I can.


Awesome, and I for one, think that closing that door isn't necessarily a bad thing. We need love and companionship, but that can come from friends and family and doesn't need to come from a mate. Some people don't understand that, but I'm glad you do.


----------



## Chuck71

AGP......I'm very glad you have put her in your rear view mirror. She is very devious.

I can see why you want to guard your heart after what occurred. But you do know the

law of averages, don't you? Anytime you are looking for a relationship or a job... _crickets_

Anytime you are not looking for a relationship or job... everyone notices you and you get call

backs on resumes you sent out eight months ago. When you least expect it...it happens.


----------



## syhoybenden

ArthurGPym said:


> I can continue to meet single women and have unattached fun with them in order to meet my physical yearnings.


Glad to see you're getting back on an even keel but if you don't mind I'd like to offer you a word of advice.

Regarding "meet single women and have unattached fun", please make sure that you're both on the same page before going physical. I mean ... have the talk first, plain and simple.

Just because you got done by an ashole doesn't mean that you now get to go out and start being an ashole yourself.

There's way too many asholes out there already. Don't add to their number.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Gabriel said:


> Awesome, and I for one, think that closing that door isn't necessarily a bad thing. We need love and companionship, but that can come from friends and family and doesn't need to come from a mate. Some people don't understand that, but I'm glad you do.


I don’t buy into the idea that a man needs a woman to live a fulfilled life. It is kind of insulting actually.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I have done a lit of reading on TAM, and one recurring theme I see throughout is this prevailing creed that a man cannot be happy without a woman in his life. That is about a misandrous and patronizing a doctrine as I have ever heard. Imagine if the men on this site started spouting off such sentiments about women? Good god… someone here would be calling in the ACLU to intervene.


----------



## LisaDiane

ArthurGPym said:


> I have done a lit of reading on TAM, and one recurring theme I see throughout is this prevailing creed that a man cannot be happy without a woman in his life. That is about a misandrous and patronizing a doctrine as I have ever heard. Imagine if the men on this site started spouting off such sentiments about women? Good god… someone here would be calling in the ACLU to intervene.


I don't believe that's true, but I definitely believe that as humans, we need relationships and connection. Your one night stands are all you will allow yourself for now (and maybe forever), but if you truly didn't want any connection, you would be masturbating and not having sex with woman at all.

So I don't believe it's a weakness or patronizing for some people to believe they need a woman/man/relationship in order to feel whole and happy. On the contrary, it takes tremendous strength and courage to pick ourselves up and open our hearts again after being hurt!! And it's the ultimate expression of humanity to allow someone into your heart.

But it's not for everyone, at least romantically, and if you never feel the pull for that again, that's perfectly fine for YOU.

This site is for people who are trying to make their relationships work, so you are definitely going to mostly see an attitude of needing and wanting a partner above all else. I bet there are single-for-life people out there too, just not on a marriage board...although we do have a few members who are single and happy to remain so. They are awesome and give great advice too.

We also DO have a singles thread, and you can post your thoughts and exploits on there if you want to!


----------



## ArthurGPym

It is just a double standard that I don't appreciate, and I mean that in the broader context than beyond the pages of TAM. I am just pointing it out. When a woman decides to forego marriage in exchange for a career and self-fulfillment, other women rally around her and exalt her for being so strong and brave. When a guy wants to remain a bachelor, people immediately wonder what is wrong with him.


----------



## ArthurGPym

I don't take advantage of the women I sleep with. And it often doesn't reach sex. It happens maybe a third of the time. These women know exactly where I stand on relationships. Believe it or not, there are some women who just want to get laid and not expect to owe the guy anything afterwards. I treat my dates very well, wine and dine them, pay for everything... so if on the off chance we do have sex, she has gotten ALL the perks and I am the one who has to pay the credit card at the end of the month. She's not out anything, not one single thing.


----------



## Kaliber

ArthurGPym said:


> It is just a double standard that I don't appreciate, and I mean that in the broader context than beyond the pages of TAM. I am just pointing it out. When a woman decides to forego marriage in exchange for a career and self-fulfillment, other women rally around her and exalt her for being so strong and brave. When a guy wants to remain a bachelor, people immediately wonder what is wrong with him.


I agree %100
You can actually see some of these women replies to other men's threads when the men come here and complain about their wives!
They start with, did you do this for her? Did you that for her? And find all other excuses!
It's the sisterhood my friend!

But when women come here and complain about their husbands they NEVER ask them, Did you do this or that for him!
It is double standard!
However there are very few ladies here who are very good in seeing through other women's bull**** and call them out.. As I said very few!


----------



## Divinely Favored

Kaliber said:


> I agree %100
> You can actually see some of these women replies to other men's threads when the man come here and complain about their wives!
> They start with, did you do this for her? Did you that for her? And find all other excuses!
> It's the sisterhood my friend!
> 
> But when a women comes and complain about their husbands they NEVER ask them, Did you do this or that for him!
> It is double standard!
> However there are very few ladies here who are very good in seeing through other women's bull**** and call them out.. As I said very few!


From all I have seen LD is one that will call out the BS in her own gender. Cudos!


----------



## Evinrude58

Of all the men in here that complain about sexless marriages and their wives hate sex……
I agree there are lots of ladies out there starving for it. However, you’ll be wishing for one that i you look forward to spending the day with as much as the night.


----------



## LisaDiane

Divinely Favored said:


> From all I have seen LD is one that will call out the BS in her own gender. Cudos!


Thank you, my Twin TAM Brother!!!


----------



## LisaDiane

ArthurGPym said:


> I don't take advantage of the women I sleep with. And it often doesn't reach sex. It happens maybe a third of the time. These women know exactly where I stand on relationships. Believe it or not, there are some women who just want to get laid and not expect to owe the guy anything afterwards. I treat my dates very well, wine and dine them, pay for everything... so if on the off chance we do have sex, she has gotten ALL the perks and I am the one who has to pay the credit card at the end of the month. She's not out anything, not one single thing.


I think I'd be happy with a McDonald's date if I got an orgasm at the end of it...Lol!!!

Plus...those fries...


----------



## Evinrude58

LisaDiane said:


> I think I'd be happy with a McDonald's date if I got an orgasm at the end of it...Lol!!!
> 
> Plus...those fries...


Oh I’m in love…….. what a woman!!!!!!
Where do LD’s hide???? There must be more of them….


----------



## ConanHub

Divinely Favored said:


> From all I have seen LD is one that will call out the BS in her own gender. Cudos!


Yup and Livvie is pretty spot on as well.


----------



## LisaDiane

Evinrude58 said:


> Oh I’m in love…….. what a woman!!!!!!
> Where do LD’s hide???? There must be more of them….


Low Drives are everywhere!!!! Lol!!!


----------



## Rob_1

Flattery, flattery, flattery. It invariably always works.


----------



## LisaDiane

ConanHub said:


> Yup and Livvie is pretty spot on as well.


Yeah, I have to hold myself back from clicking "Love" on almost every one of her posts!


----------



## Divinely Favored

ConanHub said:


> Yup and Livvie is pretty spot on as well.


I agree. They both remind me alot of my wife many times by their thought processes and statements. As a guy in the Criminal Justice field they seem like a couple of gals that you can depend on to have your back when the crap goes sideways. Level headed, right's right and wrong's wrong.


----------



## EssexUKMale

ArthurGPym said:


> So I have waited a while to post my current situation. I am hesitant, because I know what I should do, but I am hesitant to do it. I don’t know why I hesitate. She has given me no reason not to. I feel a fool and a chump, and I hate feeling this way and at the same time I feel like I cannot gain any traction. So here it goes.
> I am a retired 54 year old retired guy. I was married back in the early ‘90s but that marriage only lasted four years. I’m not really a player, and although I have had many relationships over the years settling down was never really an option for me. That was until I met my current girlfriend (let’s call her Sarah) back in June 2019. We met at a backyard barbecue hosted by a mutual friend who worked with her. Sarah was 45 at the time, beautiful and vivacious. I had never met any woman quite like her and we hit it off. She really seemed to like me and for me it was lust at first sight. We went out on our first date the next week and dated exclusively from that point on.
> Sarah was married for twenty years before divorcing her husband in 2018. She has two teenage boys and she shares joint custody with her husband. I live one town over from Sarah, and since we started dating she has driven from her town to mine (about 25 miles) to spend weekends with me. Sometimes, when her ex-husband and sons were out of town, I would travel over to her place and we would hit the town and have fun. Sarah is very outgoing and has a huge circle of friends, most of them married couples. It seemed like every weekend I went there she had some plans for us to go to different social activities with her circle of friends. That was fine with me because I’m a sociable guy and I like people. I was accepted by the group and became good friends with several of the husbands. As I said I am retired, so I would hang out with these guys and play golf occasionally.
> 
> I never put any pressure on Sarah when it came to our dating. I never made any demands, and that is what she says she loved about me. If a particular weekend came and she wasn’t in the mood for company, I didn’t go see her. When the Covid lockdown hit we continued our relationship by Skyping every night and then continuing on with seeing each other when the restrictions lifted. There were no problems really. As for commitment, she told me many times that she was not looking for a husband, but just wanted to enjoy the kind of easy going relationship we had. In March of last year was when she told me for the first time that she loved me, and even though she was not in any hurry to settle down again, I was definitely the man she would want to spend the rest of her life with. Up until recently sex was frequent and very good. We are definitely compatible in bed, so that’s not an issue.
> 
> Now comes the issue and my dilemma. I asked her many times over the past year and a half if she considered us an exclusive couple. I told her back in March 2020 that I needed to know if she was dating other men so that I could feel free to date other women if I wanted. She vehemently told me “No! I only want to date you.” And that is when she told me she loved me, and I reciprocated because I do. But then something happened last month that has put our good relationship into a tailspin. On May 10th, 2021, Sarah’s ex-mother in law died of a sudden heart attack. She and her ex-in-laws had remained very close after her divorce from their son, and the news hit her hard. The ex-MIL was like a mom to her and the loss devastated her. I drove to see her and held her for hours while she cried into my chest. I did what I could to help the family prepare for the old woman’s funeral. I sat with her ex-FIL who is a wheelchair bound Korean war vet with dementia, and kept him distracted while Sarah and her ex-husband went to the funeral home and made arrangements. Over the next week I drove to her house every evening to console her and the boys. I cooked her and the boys dinner and then drove back home each night.
> 
> I was invited to the funeral so I went. This was when I first realized that something was off. I sat in the back while Sarah sat next to her ex-husband and the boys with the family. I stayed to the side during most of the proceedings, talking to Sarah’s friends and chatting with people who had come to pay their respects, but Sarah barely spoke to me during the whole day. She never left her ex-husband’s side, and they even held hands at the burial. It was weird. I felt like an interloper. Then at the reception it was the same thing. I went up to Sarah a couple times and tried to give her a hug but it seemed like she didn’t want me to. I milled around with some people in the back yard. Then I went inside and helped with dishes. I could see Sarah and her ex sitting on the living room couch talking to people. They looked like a married couple. I know it sounds petty but I started to get really mad. I’m one of those guys who retreats into myself when I am angry, so I just kept my head down and we finished cleaning the kitchen. I told Sarah’s boys I was leaving and gave them hugs and then I went to Sarah and told her I was heading home. She looked irritated and asked me why I was leaving. She told me not to leave and said she wanted to spend some time with me and if I would just wait she would get with me. Well I waited another hour and she never did. She sat with her ex and talked long into the evening with some people I didn’t know. Finally, I just grabbed my keys and left. It was probably a juvenile move but I was hurt and disappointed.
> 
> I drove a half hour back home and did not receive a call from her until another half hour after that. “Where are you? Where did you go?” she demanded angrily. I told her it was very late and that I wanted to get back home before midnight because I had to get up early the next day to meet with a mortgage agent to start the process of refinancing my house (which was true). She asked me why I was mad and I denied it (I was). She knew I was lying, and asked me what my problem was and why I was acting like a child on a day when she was trying to concentrate on her family. I didn’t know what to say so I just apologized to her for not saying good night and we talked about a couple more things and then she hung up. Since that night things between us have been tense. I went to see her the next weekend and she was somewhat cold and distant, but weirdly the sex was off the charts good. Really hot. Afterwards she told me that she could only see me that night because she was going with her ex-husband to church the next day to see their oldest boy baptized. I asked if I could come and she made up some excuse as to why I shouldn’t and that pissed me off. So I just got up to go home. She kissed me goodnight and she told me she was sorry if she was being *****y but that her ex-MIL’s death was hitting her hard. I told her I wanted to be there for her but she keeps pushing me away. She denied that and told me she loves me and that I need to be patient with her.
> 
> Then this past weekend I asked her if she wanted to come over and she said no, that she had plans, but that she promised she would spend the 4th of July weekend with me. Well since this past Sunday I have not heard from her. This past Monday I joined this group and I’m now I’m here looking for advice. I think she is back with her ex-husband and won’t admit it. I want to confront her but have no real evidence other than her behavior to back up my suspicions. Am I being a big selfish baby? Should I just back off and let her do what she is going to do? I don’t want people thinking I am trying to control her. I have no desire to control her. In fact the whole thing about our relationship she loved is how chill I have tried to be around her. No expectations or demands. But the way she flat out ignored me at the funeral really hit me hard, or am I overacting about that whole thing?
> 
> Look I know she and her husband have a long history, but they divorced amicably and during the time I have been dating her the ex has not really been a factor up until his mom died. I know that I don’t have a claim on Sarah, but dang! we expressed our commitment to each other. I really love this woman and I saw a future with her. Maybe she doesn’t love me as much as she thought she did. Or maybe she has just been playing me for a fool this whole time? Using me as a stopgap until she could get back with her husband?
> She texted me “good morning Huggy” for the first time in three days this morning. I don’t even know if I want to answer her. Part of me says end this stupid charade and move on, and the other part of me says to answer the text. As much as I understand she is grieving, I have that gut feeling she is two-timing me. No actual proof. Should I trust my gut? I have read many threads on this site and that seems to be the consensus. Should I break it off for good with her, or just pull way back and wait to see what she does? There are too many red flags for me to ignore. She seems overtly preoccupied with her ex-husband and that should be the writing on the wall. I think I want to play it cool and not chase her. I'm going to back off and see if she chases me or comes after me to know why I am not kissing her ass.


It’s a balancing act. You need to be understanding and let them grieve. But she needs to accept boundaries. Sounds like she is over stepping


----------



## ArthurGPym

EssexUKMale said:


> It’s a balancing act. You need to be understanding and let them grieve. But she needs to accept boundaries. Sounds like she is over stepping


Little late to the game my friend, but thank you for responding. Sarah is in my rearview now.


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## ArthurGPym

One piece of advise I have to give all the men out there. Whenever a woman tells you "I'll love you forever" don't believe it. Especially in the context of breaking up with you. When she lands a new man and falls in love with him, you will become yesterday's news. Just someone she used to know.


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## GusPolinski

ArthurGPym said:


> One piece of advise I have to give all the men out there. Whenever a woman tells you "I'll love you forever" don't believe it. Especially in the context of breaking up with you. When she lands a new man and falls in love with him, you will become yesterday's news. Just someone she used to know.


Unconditional love is for pets and kids.


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## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> One piece of advise I have to give all the men out there. Whenever a woman tells you "I'll love you forever" don't believe it. Especially in the context of breaking up with you. When she lands a new man and falls in love with him, you will become yesterday's news. Just someone she used to know.


Yeah, but by the same token we owe to ourselves to also have them in our rear view, if that at all. You just can't go on lamenting old news. 

My take is more realistic: the moment she cheated, she's dead to me. Mourn her death for a bit *if that) then "von vivir" and NEXT.


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## ArthurGPym

Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


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## Beach123

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


More manipulation.

I doubt you want her brand of love.


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## sideways

Beach123 said:


> More manipulation.
> 
> I doubt you want her brand of love.


Correct. Her definition of love is pretty whacked!


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## mickybill

Just someone she used to know.

Google song "Somebody that I used to know"


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


Awwwww, she showed you everything you needed to know.


----------



## re16

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


Nothingburger. How's the guitar playing going?


----------



## Chuck71

"In her mind" she probably meant that. But her idea of love is greatly warped. She was like

my post-D g/f... great for a relationship for 18-24 months. After that... it never works out.

The reason why her and her XH made it so long was they both shared that warped idea of love.


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## jlg07

With the type of love she has, it's a good thing she doesn't hate you!


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## Cynthia

She desires you and thinks that's love. We can tell if someone loves us by the way they treat us.


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## Tatsuhiko

Sounds like her ex is getting abusive again and she's looking for some ego kibbles or a fallback plan. Oh, the excitement and drama that a bad boy can provide.


----------



## Edmund

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


She still wants the Rolex back!


----------



## Evinrude58

Apparently there’s quite a list of exes she’ll always love. You should’ve asked her if she’d be DTF with you after she’s dated the next guy for a year or two…..


----------



## Taxman

I believe sir, that you now are the one that got away. I suspect that a campaign will be waged shortly.


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## Marc878

Poor muffin. She just can’t understand how you could just walk away. She’s so perfect and all.
Yawn.


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## Evinrude58

If you want her back, just wait for the next funeral.


----------



## TDSC60

For years I thought my EXGF was the love of my life. I thought she was mine. Turned out that it was just my turn.


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## ABHale

I think it was the one that was thrown away. Now she is digging through the garbage that her life has become in an effort to get Arthur back.


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## ArthurGPym

I don't know her inner motivations. I have heard through mutual friends that she is struggling. She probably misses me footing the bill for everything. Above all things women are pragmatic.


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## ArthurGPym

Her ex done run oft.


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## Diceplayer

She got what she deserved.


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> I don't know her inner motivations. I have heard through mutual friends that she is struggling. She probably misses me footing the bill for everything. Above all things women are pragmatic.


Yep, she misses your checkbook. Poor thing. How could you be so mean? All she did was **** you over for her x man. Hey, at least you got a nice watch out of it. On second thought you might have it checked. They make nice fakes for a few bucks.


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## mickybill

ArthurGPym said:


> Her ex done run oft.


Is that a reference to "Brother Where Art Thou"?
And she may be struggling as she realized that her X was an X for a reason and she had a chance to move on with a better man and messed it up.
Not your problem now but maybe a reason...


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## Zedd

ArthurGPym said:


> Her ex done run oft.


Honestly, from an outsider perspective, if he was looking for revenge, good on him. She's in a good relationship, he ruined it, then just left.

or, it could just be coincidence, I suppose.


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## Evinrude58

The old hit and run. Ex had no intention of getting back with her most likely. Just wanted to hit it a few times again.

she fell for it and proved her level of loyalty to Arthur. If not her ex, it would have eventually been someone else, possibly after Arthur married her.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Evinrude58 said:


> The old hit and run. Ex had no intention of getting back with her most likely. Just wanted to hit it a few times again.
> 
> she fell for it and proved her level of loyalty to Arthur. If not her ex, it would have eventually been someone else, possibly after Arthur married her.
> View attachment 84018


It turned out to be a good **** test.....which she failed miserably.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

You might even be tempted to give her a second chance. But then bad boy will make his triumphant return and she'll fall into his arms again. Those bad boys are just sooooo exciting. But the good boys stick around, nurture the children, and pay the bills. Such a dilemma.


----------



## ArthurGPym

mickybill said:


> Is that a reference to "Brother Where Art Thou"?
> And she may be struggling as she realized that her X was an X for a reason and she had a chance to move on with a better man and messed it up.
> Not your problem now but maybe a reason...


Yes. My favorite movie. I heard from these same friends that the ex-husband has moved out of state. She is basically a single mom now with no one to help with childcare.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Tatsuhiko said:


> You might even be tempted to give her a second chance. But then bad boy will make his triumphant return and she'll fall into his arms again. Those bad boys are just sooooo exciting. But the good boys stick around, nurture the children, and pay the bills. Such a dilemma.


I am a bad boy. That's the thing. I was a professional rock musician in the '80s during the whole Hollywood glam rock era. I got tats when tats weren't cool. I rode a Harley, had the long hair and wore leather, partied hard and lived the lifestyle. I was way more wild than her ex-husband ever thought about being. But I grew up, learned about money management, business and taught myself investing and real estate. I still have a rock and roll attitude, but I am also self-made and stable. It is possible to have all those qualities and still kick ass when I need to. She had the best of both worlds with me and threw it away because she is codependent on him and he is a narcissist. Such types feed off each other.


----------



## ElOtro

ArthurGPym said:


> I am a bad boy.





ArthurGPym said:


> She had the best of both worlds with me and threw it away because....


because...there are also other bad boys.


----------



## Beach123

I’m not so sure she isn’t the one who’s a narcissist.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

ArthurGPym said:


> I am a bad boy.


You mean you had all the trappings of a bad boy. But when it came right down to it, you were never abusive or aloof. Clothes do not make the man. Heck, weren't you the guy that was helping her son through some personal issue at one point?


----------



## Evinrude58

Do bad boys refer to themselves as bad boys?
Asking for a friend 😂


----------



## ElOtro

Evinrude58 said:


> Do bad boys refer to themselves as bad boys?
> Asking for a friend 😂


May I also receive some enlightment from the answers to your question???


----------



## ET1SSJonota

WAAAYYY late to the party - kinda wished I'd posted months ago (when I first read through your story), but I doubt it would have changed anything.

I'll preface what I'm going to say with this: you are/were more than justified in all of the actions that you took, and in no way am I judging or suggesting that you were "wrong". As in any experience, you had choices to make, and there were alternate paths. 

That being said, and obviously I only have the information and experiences you have conveyed to us on here (which is only part of the story) - this could easily have been a case of a badly understood day turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The funeral and surrounding public occasions, while CERTAINLY not pleasant or acceptable from your perspective, from this vantage point meant nothing. You've evidenced significant jealousy (again, not a judgment, I'm a VERY jealous person) - and that could have been why you equated her actions those days to something entirely not there (rekindling things with EX). Then you basically stormed off after limited attempts at conveying your problem with the situation - all but forcing them back together. She was particularly vulnerable and needing support in that moment - again, not an excuse for how she treated you that day, but the follow on issues were you "reading" into the situation, not based on clearly communication (from either of you). Then you just disappeared. 

From her perspective, she needed some support and to work through things where she wasn't giving you all of her attention, and you immediately bailed. Then when you ghosted her, the guy that was there got her attention and she decided to see if it could be rekindled - again, maybe I've got timelines mixed up but that's one potential interpretation. That you use this experience, and your first wife, to paint all potential future relationships in the same light also makes me question if the perception you have is colored by reality or by biases in your perspective. 

Consider, like many of these "dates/ONS" situations, what you "lost" by having that relationship with her? What was the negative? A few fights here and there, one REALLY uncomfortable day, and in the end feeling rejected (which you kind of forced upon yourself)? Obviously those things suck in the micro view, but there was lots of positives, too. It sounds like you spent a significant amount of time stewing about what could have been and what happened - and so has she. Maybe if that energy got spent on communicating before, and being open and up front about what the issues were and what those issues looked like or meant to each person, relying on what those people say and do instead of trying to "interpret" what they mean, it could have had a different outcome. 

Maybe you just like avoiding drama and that's all you see coming out of it, but what, really, does it hurt to hear someone out? So what if she tries to be manipulative? Then she's just exactly where you think she is? Maybe she says or does something that suggests your interpretations were wrong? Maybe she just apologizes. Or, obviously, maybe it's just the ****show you think it was going to be... but so? In the end, you cared, and your biggest pain seems to come from believing she didn't. I think thus far it's clear she did, at least to some degree. 

I like that you recognize you don't need a relationship to be happy and healthy. You don't also need to be single and free to be happy and healthy. Everyone has their baggage (including you), so being around others comes with an expectation that at some point, you'll be exposed to that baggage. Don't pre-emptively judge everyone else's. 

Again, I hope you don't find this to be insulting or demeaning. Just food for thought. There were 2 people in this relationship, both fully human and with faults. You handled it fine, but I'm questioning if you got the outcome you truly wanted, and if handling it a different way may have gotten you to a different outcome. 

I wish health and happiness on you!


----------



## jonty30

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


She wants you to keep the door slightly cracked.
Which we know that you won't do.


----------



## Divinely Favored

ET1SSJonota said:


> WAAAYYY late to the party - kinda wished I'd posted months ago (when I first read through your story), but I doubt it would have changed anything.
> 
> I'll preface what I'm going to say with this: you are/were more than justified in all of the actions that you took, and in no way am I judging or suggesting that you were "wrong". As in any experience, you had choices to make, and there were alternate paths.
> 
> That being said, and obviously I only have the information and experiences you have conveyed to us on here (which is only part of the story) - this could easily have been a case of a badly understood day turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> The funeral and surrounding public occasions, while CERTAINLY not pleasant or acceptable from your perspective, from this vantage point meant nothing. You've evidenced significant jealousy (again, not a judgment, I'm a VERY jealous person) - and that could have been why you equated her actions those days to something entirely not there (rekindling things with EX). Then you basically stormed off after limited attempts at conveying your problem with the situation - all but forcing them back together. She was particularly vulnerable and needing support in that moment - again, not an excuse for how she treated you that day, but the follow on issues were you "reading" into the situation, not based on clearly communication (from either of you). Then you just disappeared.
> 
> From her perspective, she needed some support and to work through things where she wasn't giving you all of her attention, and you immediately bailed. Then when you ghosted her, the guy that was there got her attention and she decided to see if it could be rekindled - again, maybe I've got timelines mixed up but that's one potential interpretation. That you use this experience, and your first wife, to paint all potential future relationships in the same light also makes me question if the perception you have is colored by reality or by biases in your perspective.
> 
> Consider, like many of these "dates/ONS" situations, what you "lost" by having that relationship with her? What was the negative? A few fights here and there, one REALLY uncomfortable day, and in the end feeling rejected (which you kind of forced upon yourself)? Obviously those things suck in the micro view, but there was lots of positives, too. It sounds like you spent a significant amount of time stewing about what could have been and what happened - and so has she. Maybe if that energy got spent on communicating before, and being open and up front about what the issues were and what those issues looked like or meant to each person, relying on what those people say and do instead of trying to "interpret" what they mean, it could have had a different outcome.
> 
> Maybe you just like avoiding drama and that's all you see coming out of it, but what, really, does it hurt to hear someone out? So what if she tries to be manipulative? Then she's just exactly where you think she is? Maybe she says or does something that suggests your interpretations were wrong? Maybe she just apologizes. Or, obviously, maybe it's just the ****show you think it was going to be... but so? In the end, you cared, and your biggest pain seems to come from believing she didn't. I think thus far it's clear she did, at least to some degree.
> 
> I like that you recognize you don't need a relationship to be happy and healthy. You don't also need to be single and free to be happy and healthy. Everyone has their baggage (including you), so being around others comes with an expectation that at some point, you'll be exposed to that baggage. Don't pre-emptively judge everyone else's.
> 
> Again, I hope you don't find this to be insulting or demeaning. Just food for thought. There were 2 people in this relationship, both fully human and with faults. You handled it fine, but I'm questioning if you got the outcome you truly wanted, and if handling it a different way may have gotten you to a different outcome.
> 
> I wish health and happiness on you!


BS. The only other outcome would have been for her to try on ex hubby again and see if the fit was different than before while @ArthurPGym hung out as cuckold waiting to see if ole girl wanted to make it a go with ex or if it did not work and she resorted to plan B.

Her actions were clear when snuggled up to ex when his mom passed. She probably convinced herself it was best for her son. Arthur was correct to bail on the ride when her intentions were clear. Even her son knew what the deal was and was pissed at mom. Some women just can't let go of certain men in their lives. Many are F'ed up in the head that way. Like those women who keep going back to men who beat them....


----------



## ccpowerslave

All I know is, rock/metal guitar player = instant badass and also bad boy confirmed.


----------



## ArthurGPym

ET1SSJonota said:


> WAAAYYY late to the party - kinda wished I'd posted months ago (when I first read through your story), but I doubt it would have changed anything.
> 
> I'll preface what I'm going to say with this: you are/were more than justified in all of the actions that you took, and in no way am I judging or suggesting that you were "wrong". As in any experience, you had choices to make, and there were alternate paths.
> 
> That being said, and obviously I only have the information and experiences you have conveyed to us on here (which is only part of the story) - this could easily have been a case of a badly understood day turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> The funeral and surrounding public occasions, while CERTAINLY not pleasant or acceptable from your perspective, from this vantage point meant nothing. You've evidenced significant jealousy (again, not a judgment, I'm a VERY jealous person) - and that could have been why you equated her actions those days to something entirely not there (rekindling things with EX). Then you basically stormed off after limited attempts at conveying your problem with the situation - all but forcing them back together. She was particularly vulnerable and needing support in that moment - again, not an excuse for how she treated you that day, but the follow on issues were you "reading" into the situation, not based on clearly communication (from either of you). Then you just disappeared.
> 
> From her perspective, she needed some support and to work through things where she wasn't giving you all of her attention, and you immediately bailed. Then when you ghosted her, the guy that was there got her attention and she decided to see if it could be rekindled - again, maybe I've got timelines mixed up but that's one potential interpretation. That you use this experience, and your first wife, to paint all potential future relationships in the same light also makes me question if the perception you have is colored by reality or by biases in your perspective.
> 
> Consider, like many of these "dates/ONS" situations, what you "lost" by having that relationship with her? What was the negative? A few fights here and there, one REALLY uncomfortable day, and in the end feeling rejected (which you kind of forced upon yourself)? Obviously those things suck in the micro view, but there was lots of positives, too. It sounds like you spent a significant amount of time stewing about what could have been and what happened - and so has she. Maybe if that energy got spent on communicating before, and being open and up front about what the issues were and what those issues looked like or meant to each person, relying on what those people say and do instead of trying to "interpret" what they mean, it could have had a different outcome.
> 
> Maybe you just like avoiding drama and that's all you see coming out of it, but what, really, does it hurt to hear someone out? So what if she tries to be manipulative? Then she's just exactly where you think she is? Maybe she says or does something that suggests your interpretations were wrong? Maybe she just apologizes. Or, obviously, maybe it's just the ****show you think it was going to be... but so? In the end, you cared, and your biggest pain seems to come from believing she didn't. I think thus far it's clear she did, at least to some degree.
> 
> I like that you recognize you don't need a relationship to be happy and healthy. You don't also need to be single and free to be happy and healthy. Everyone has their baggage (including you), so being around others comes with an expectation that at some point, you'll be exposed to that baggage. Don't pre-emptively judge everyone else's.
> 
> Again, I hope you don't find this to be insulting or demeaning. Just food for thought. There were 2 people in this relationship, both fully human and with faults. You handled it fine, but I'm questioning if you got the outcome you truly wanted, and if handling it a different way may have gotten you to a different outcome.
> 
> I wish health and happiness on you!


Hey Jonata. Welcome to the party. Beer is in the cooler on the patio so help yourself. 

Believe me when I say that I anguished over these same possibilities before I made the decision to cut ties with her. Believe me, I was not imagining things nor did I psyche myself out. Her change towards me was a literal 180. I know well when a woman is friend-zoning me and I got marginalized by her overnight. I was getting calls from lots of people immediately after the funeral asking me what was up. This breakup did not occur behind closed doors. It was very public unfortunately and even her close friends were disgusted by how she treated me. So yes, in a parallel universe the possibilities you brought up could theoretically happen, but I can assure you this was not the case in my situation. In fact, I would say that I reacted in a very level headed manner. I did not storm out of the reception. I said good night to everyone and I simply got tired of waiting for her to finish up with her lingering guests so I quietly slipped out. Not once during this whole fiasco did I talk bad about her to friends nor did I ever raise my voice to her. I never got mean until that last phone call to her a few months afterwards. In fact, I gave her the easiest and least drama-filled breakup a woman could get when she snubs a man. I simply walked off the stage without bumping into the scenery. She treated me appallingly, but I walked away with my head high. I don't regret how I broke up with her. I regret how I did not see the signs and not see her for what she truly was: a con artist.


----------



## Evinrude58

ccpowerslave said:


> All I know is, rock/metal guitar player = instant badass and also bad boy confirmed.


I’m definitely jealous of Arthur’s guitar skills.
Im thinking my mediocre boy status is going to need some work. On a positive note, my ex says I’m as bad boy. Well, she says I’m an a-hole. Same thing, right? 🤞


----------



## LisaDiane

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


What an entitled, self-absorbed brat. You should have said, "Then leave me alone."

Or you could have said, "So does my new girlfriend"....Lol!!!


----------



## lifeistooshort

LisaDiane said:


> What an entitled, self-absorbed brat. You should have said, "Then leave me alone."
> 
> Or you could have said, "So does my new girlfriend"....Lol!!!


Yeah, this is a low class woman.


----------



## LisaDiane

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m definitely jealous of Arthur’s guitar skills.
> Im thinking my mediocre boy status is going to need some work. On a positive note, my ex says I’m as bad boy. Well, she says I’m an a-hole. Same thing, right? 🤞


"Mediocre boy"....Lolol!!!!!!!


----------



## ArthurGPym

ccpowerslave said:


> All I know is, rock/metal guitar player = instant badass and also bad boy confirmed.


And I still use AquaNet in my hair. Grey as it is.


----------



## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> And I still use *AquaNet* in my hair. Grey as it is.


LOL!! I haven't heard that brand name in decades, but I remember it as being very popular with women to hold their hairdo in place.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Rob_1 said:


> LOL!! I haven't heard that brand name in decades, but I remember it as being very popular with women to hold their hairdo in place.


Aquanet was great to use with a lighter to go after the black widow spiders in AZ when I was growing up there.

in general i like spiders because they're cool and eat bugs, but those black widow *****es are mean and have to go 😀


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rob_1 said:


> LOL!! I haven't heard that brand name in decades, but I remember it as being very popular with women to hold their hairdo in place.


In 1988 my mane was glorious.... spectacular.


----------



## Evinrude58

ArthurGPym said:


> In 1988 my mane was glorious.... spectacular.


Yeah I was wondering how you could flop that hair all over the place while rocking out, with all that aqua net in place.
We have something in common: I had hair in ‘88 also! 😋


----------



## ccpowerslave

I tried doing 1988 Maiden England Adrian Smith hair, it didn’t work out for me.


----------



## Divinely Favored

lifeistooshort said:


> Aquanet was great to use with a lighter to go after the black widow spiders in AZ when I was growing up there.
> 
> in general i like spiders because they're cool and eat bugs, but those black widow *****es are mean and have to go 😀


Wasp nest also


----------



## Divinely Favored

Evinrude58 said:


> Yeah I was wondering how you could flop that hair all over the place while rocking out, with all that aqua net in place.
> We have something in common: I had hair in ‘88 also! 😋


Just leave the one floppy curl in front like Elvis.


----------



## Cynthia

I wish my hair was as amazing as my husband's. He gave it to two of our children. The other one got my hair; she's beautiful, but would have been happier with dh's hair. I asked dh to grow his out. Even now, in our elder years, I love his hair. I braid it for him. My eldest daughter gives him fancy Viking braids for special occasions.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## GG1061

ArthurGPym said:


> Hey Jonata. Welcome to the party. Beer is in the cooler on the patio so help yourself.
> 
> Believe me when I say that I anguished over these same possibilities before I made the decision to cut ties with her. Believe me, I was not imagining things nor did I psyche myself out. Her change towards me was a literal 180. I know well when a woman is friend-zoning me and I got marginalized by her overnight. I was getting calls from lots of people immediately after the funeral asking me what was up. This breakup did not occur behind closed doors. It was very public unfortunately and even her close friends were disgusted by how she treated me. So yes, in a parallel universe the possibilities you brought up could theoretically happen, but I can assure you this was not the case in my situation. In fact, I would say that I reacted in a very level headed manner. I did not storm out of the reception. I said good night to everyone and I simply got tired of waiting for her to finish up with her lingering guests so I quietly slipped out. Not once during this whole fiasco did I talk bad about her to friends nor did I ever raise my voice to her. I never got mean until that last phone call to her a few months afterwards. In fact, I gave her the easiest and least drama-filled breakup a woman could get when she snubs a man. I simply walked off the stage without bumping into the scenery. She treated me appallingly, but I walked away with my head high. I don't regret how I broke up with her. I regret how I did not see the signs and not see her for what she truly was: a con artist.


Having followed your thread from the beginning I was curious as to what she wrote in that letter she sent after everything went down. Would have liked to see how she explained her behavior towards you.

Since her ex took off to AZ have you spoken with her son?


----------



## Marc878

ET1SSJonota said:


> WAAAYYY late to the party - kinda wished I'd posted months ago (when I first read through your story), but I doubt it would have changed anything.
> 
> I'll preface what I'm going to say with this: you are/were more than justified in all of the actions that you took, and in no way am I judging or suggesting that you were "wrong". As in any experience, you had choices to make, and there were alternate paths.
> 
> That being said, and obviously I only have the information and experiences you have conveyed to us on here (which is only part of the story) - this could easily have been a case of a badly understood day turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> The funeral and surrounding public occasions, while CERTAINLY not pleasant or acceptable from your perspective, from this vantage point meant nothing. You've evidenced significant jealousy (again, not a judgment, I'm a VERY jealous person) - and that could have been why you equated her actions those days to something entirely not there (rekindling things with EX). Then you basically stormed off after limited attempts at conveying your problem with the situation - all but forcing them back together. She was particularly vulnerable and needing support in that moment - again, not an excuse for how she treated you that day, but the follow on issues were you "reading" into the situation, not based on clearly communication (from either of you). Then you just disappeared.
> 
> From her perspective, she needed some support and to work through things where she wasn't giving you all of her attention, and you immediately bailed. Then when you ghosted her, the guy that was there got her attention and she decided to see if it could be rekindled - again, maybe I've got timelines mixed up but that's one potential interpretation. That you use this experience, and your first wife, to paint all potential future relationships in the same light also makes me question if the perception you have is colored by reality or by biases in your perspective.
> 
> Consider, like many of these "dates/ONS" situations, what you "lost" by having that relationship with her? What was the negative? A few fights here and there, one REALLY uncomfortable day, and in the end feeling rejected (which you kind of forced upon yourself)? Obviously those things suck in the micro view, but there was lots of positives, too. It sounds like you spent a significant amount of time stewing about what could have been and what happened - and so has she. Maybe if that energy got spent on communicating before, and being open and up front about what the issues were and what those issues looked like or meant to each person, relying on what those people say and do instead of trying to "interpret" what they mean, it could have had a different outcome.
> 
> Maybe you just like avoiding drama and that's all you see coming out of it, but what, really, does it hurt to hear someone out? So what if she tries to be manipulative? Then she's just exactly where you think she is? Maybe she says or does something that suggests your interpretations were wrong? Maybe she just apologizes. Or, obviously, maybe it's just the ****show you think it was going to be... but so? In the end, you cared, and your biggest pain seems to come from believing she didn't. I think thus far it's clear she did, at least to some degree.
> 
> I like that you recognize you don't need a relationship to be happy and healthy. You don't also need to be single and free to be happy and healthy. Everyone has their baggage (including you), so being around others comes with an expectation that at some point, you'll be exposed to that baggage. Don't pre-emptively judge everyone else's.
> 
> Again, I hope you don't find this to be insulting or demeaning. Just food for thought. There were 2 people in this relationship, both fully human and with faults. You handled it fine, but I'm questioning if you got the outcome you truly wanted, and if handling it a different way may have gotten you to a different outcome.
> 
> I wish health and happiness on you!


It all comes down to actions versus words. Life rarely ends like a Disney movie.


----------



## ArthurGPym

GG1061 said:


> Having followed your thread from the beginning I was curious as to what she wrote in that letter she sent after everything went down. Would have liked to see how she explained her behavior towards you.
> 
> Since her ex took off to AZ have you spoken with her son?


I have not spoken to him. The door is open if he ever wants to call me, but it is probably better for everyone if he doesn't. I do miss both the boys, which is why I will never get involved with a woman with minor kids again.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Ex takes off to AZ, effectively abandoning his own kids. Now THAT'S what we call a bad boy. Had she not screwed things up, you'd be a better father than this jerk ever was. Your motorcycle and leather jacket don't count for much.


----------



## Taxman

Arthur, I believe that you dodged a bullet. Anyone who cannot see a clear path to a better life, and willing to blow up other people's lives for essentially ennui. (Ex was not a great husband, and took to his heels when she got too close again) So....now she is looking for her next relationship. Or, she is planning a campaign to suck you back in. She is neither wife material nor girlfriend material. One bets she cannot explain why she went running back to her ex. When she was dressed down by you for blowing this up, how was her reaction? Did she justify herself? Did she just want to write it off as a "mistake"? Did she just weep and take it?


----------



## fluffycoco

I had always thought that Arthur should give her a second chance, but now I would think he made very smart decision to depart from her. she might liked him sometimes in someway but she was not in love whatsoever


----------



## seadoug105

fluffycoco said:


> I had always thought that Arthur should give her a second chance, but now I would think he made very smart decision to depart from her. she might liked him sometimes in someway but she was not in love whatsoever


That’s because she will only be in lone with 2 things in her life…

her self 
and 
the thought of being in love


----------



## sideways

She doesn't really know what love is. She thinks she does but she doesn't. To her love is a feeling/emotion. Unfortunately a feeling/emotion can change in a second. 

Feelings are great but they come and go. That's why she was able to just cast Arthur aside because she was driven by a feeling she had in the moment and look what it got her. She lost a good man, her ex left her again, and her kids have lost a ton of respect for her.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah last week, out of the blue Sarah got a text through to me on her son's phone number saying she would always love me. Right.


She's taken up fishing already.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Taxman said:


> Arthur, I believe that you dodged a bullet. Anyone who cannot see a clear path to a better life, and willing to blow up other people's lives for essentially ennui. (Ex was not a great husband, and took to his heels when she got too close again) So....now she is looking for her next relationship. Or, she is planning a campaign to suck you back in. She is neither wife material nor girlfriend material. One bets she cannot explain why she went running back to her ex. When she was dressed down by you for blowing this up, how was her reaction? Did she justify herself? Did she just want to write it off as a "mistake"? Did she just weep and take it?


I don't want to try to crawl inside her head to figure out why she did what she did. She did not justify herself, just kept repeating "I'm sorry" over and over. She didn't get a chance to answer me much because I was laying into her hard. 





fluffycoco said:


> I had always thought that Arthur should give her a second chance, but now I would think he made very smart decision to depart from her. she might liked him sometimes in someway but she was not in love whatsoever


Or she was in love with me but never grew to really love me in an adult way. 




seadoug105 said:


> That’s because she will only be in lone with 2 things in her life…
> 
> her self
> and
> the thought of being in love


There is probably some merit to this idea. She may have been in love with the idea of being ion love. I was her first serious guy after she broke up with her husband. I was the rebound. 



sideways said:


> She doesn't really know what love is. She thinks she does but she doesn't. To her love is a feeling/emotion. Unfortunately a feeling/emotion can change in a second.
> 
> Feelings are great but they come and go. That's why she was able to just cast Arthur aside because she was driven by a feeling she had in the moment and look what it got her. She lost a good man, her ex left her again, and her kids have lost a ton of respect for her.


I have read some about 'love addicts": people who move from relationship to relationship and are never able to mature into a grown-up, lasting kind of loving. They start off hot and heavy but once the newness of a relationship wears off they lose interest and move on to someone else, and the pattern repeats ad inifinitum. I think Marylin Monroe and Elizabeth Taylor were like this. I thought maybe Sarah was one of these and I'm not certain, since she dumped me for her ex. If it had been someone new then maybe. 



Tdbo said:


> She's taken up fishing already.


Do I get to pick what kind of fish I am? I think I would like to be a clownfish, like Nemo.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Not trying to belabor this thread, but I wanted to share something funny with you all. I lost a potential girlfriend last night. She said I was "vetting" her too much: i.e. asking too many questions about her past, probing into her private life too much. She didn't like the questions I was asking her about her prior relationship where she suddenly ended a ten year long term partnership for nebulous reasons. She stormed off and I sat there and realized I just dodged a narcissist. If not for what I have learned from TAM I might have set myself up for another emotional ass kicking down the road. Thank you all for the wisdom you have imparted to me. You really cannot trust anyone anymore.


----------



## Rob_1

While your concerns are legit, I would like to remind you that you just can't start an interrogation on a person just like that. Anyone, narcissistic or not would just get up and leave. Don't be that jaded guy.

During courtship, finding about the potential partner past relationships, and overall outlook and morals is a more subtle organic business, it should be handle with delicacy, like you are sharing stories about past behaviors (sleek way to do it is using somebody else's behaviour) to start gauging someone's one by their responses. What you did there was an assault right in her face. No wonder why she got up an left. Think about it.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Little harsh there Rob... 

I wasn't interrogating her, not anywhere near that. It was the third time we had gone out, we were talking over dessert, and her story of how she and her ex broke up changed considerably from the prior time she had told me about it. I caught some inconsistencies in her story and simply asked her why her story changed. She got offended that I noticed and when I told her it was a legit question she got angry. That led to her getting all hot and the date ending fairly abruptly. She left me behind in the restaurant and when I caught up to her she refused to let me take her home. I guess she called an Uber home because I went ahead and left. At first I thought she had overreacted, but then later on I thought it might have all been an act. She knew she got caught in a lie and when she couldn't think of a way out of the lie she feigned anger as a diversionary tactic. When I still wasn't buying what she was selling she got up and left in a huff. I think it was kind of humorous looking back on it. Not a big issue for me anyway as I wasn't really into her and probably would not have asked her out again anyways.


----------



## SRCSRC

Wow, she has much to hide and didn't want to share it with you. Look for a widow. I believe you are in your 50's. They should start to pop up soon. I'm being sort of sarcastic.


----------



## Rob_1

ArthurGPym said:


> She said I was "vetting" her too much: i.e. asking too many questions about her past, probing into her private life too much. She didn't like the questions I was asking her about her prior relationship where she suddenly ended a ten year long term partnership for nebulous reasons.


Arthur: as I read what you explained, it came across as you probing into her life on one sitting. Your new explanation makes more sense of the actual events leading to her departure. Thanks for clarifying. It shows that something must not be too kosher with her. Having said that, what I said about how to go about it stands, because, when it happens the way I interpreted it at first, is definitively a turn off and insulting to people. One must tread carefully when trying to establish who the other person really is.


----------



## TAMAT

Arthur,

That's another one of the disadvantages of cheating, you have to start off your next relationship concealing what you did, or lying by omission or telling a lie. 

"we just grew apart" or even worse reversing the script and saying the former partner cheated.


----------



## oldshirt

ArthurGPym said:


> Little harsh there Rob...
> 
> I wasn't interrogating her, not anywhere near that. It was the third time we had gone out, we were talking over dessert, and her story of how she and her ex broke up changed considerably from the prior time she had told me about it. I caught some inconsistencies in her story and simply asked her why her story changed. She got offended that I noticed and when I told her it was a legit question she got angry. That led to her getting all hot and the date ending fairly abruptly. She left me behind in the restaurant and when I caught up to her she refused to let me take her home. I guess she called an Uber home because I went ahead and left. At first I thought she had overreacted, but then later on I thought it might have all been an act. She knew she got caught in a lie and when she couldn't think of a way out of the lie she feigned anger as a diversionary tactic. When I still wasn't buying what she was selling she got up and left in a huff. I think it was kind of humorous looking back on it. Not a big issue for me anyway as I wasn't really into her and probably would not have asked her out again anyways.


That is probably going to happen quite a few times as you go about the dating market. You did the right thing in letting her go. You did dodge a bullet but the best part is she took herself out of the equation and you didn't have to do any of the dirty work. 

What probably honked her off the most is she couldn't keep her story straight and didn't like that you were holding her accountable for her stories and her "vetting" comment was because she thinks her platinum vagina should exempt her from any vetting at all and it upset her that someone may not be bending over backwards for her. 

You're going to run into that quite a bit going forward. Lots of women will have that mentality. Don't fall for it and don't chase and don't settle. 

Now that being said, when I initially read your post, I was thinking the same thing as Rob. There is a line between interrogation and prying into someone's personal life and learning about them as a person. The whole reason for dating is to get to know someone and find out what kind of person they are and how they manage their life and their relationships and such in an effort to see if their beliefs and values and temperments etc are compatible and in line with each other. 

I don't think asking someone how many people they've been to bed with is an appropriate question although many here do. I don't think you will ever get an honest answer anyway. ( I tend to believe in The Law of 3s, where men multiply their number by 3 and women divide their number by at least 3) 

But I think clarifying a story that has fundamentally changed is not only valid but necessary. It's showing deception and manipulation. The fact that she was angered and upset by being called out on that was probably an even bigger glimpse into her mentality and character. 

And for a woman to be disgusted by the thought of being "vetted" is a real big insight into her character and her level of entitlement. Yes, ladies, you too are being vetted and evaluated on your merits as well. 

An honorable, quality woman will not only understand that but will embrace that and see a man who has his own values and criteria as a positive attribute. A man that will accept anyone that gives him the time of day is a turn off to a quality woman.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Rob_1 said:


> Arthur: as I read what you explained, it came across as you probing into her life on one sitting. Your new explanation makes more sense of the actual events leading to her departure. Thanks for clarifying. It shows that something must not be too kosher with her. Having said that, what I said about how to go about it stands, because, when it happens the way I interpreted it at first, is definitively a turn off and insulting to people. One must tread carefully when trying to establish who the other person really is.


Yeah, interesting thing is I never really ever probed much into her prior relationship. In fact I don't recall really asking her much about it at all. She volunteered a story about the breakup on our last date, after the wine had flowed for a while and loosened her tongue. I wasn't drinking because I had to drive and I just sat there listening and absorbing. Too bad a lot of it was bogus. I have a pretty sharp memory and I catch inconsistencies.


----------



## oldshirt

ArthurGPym said:


> Yeah, interesting thing is I never really ever probed much into her prior relationship. In fact I don't recall really asking her much about it at all. She volunteered a story about the breakup on our last date, after the wine had flowed for a while and loosened her tongue. I wasn't drinking because I had to drive and I just sat there listening and absorbing. Too bad a lot of it was bogus. I have a pretty sharp memory and I catch inconsistencies.


So this of course begs the question of what were her two stories? What did she spill the beans on that got her so upset that you found out about?


----------



## Divinely Favored

oldshirt said:


> That is probably going to happen quite a few times as you go about the dating market. You did the right thing in letting her go. You did dodge a bullet but the best part is she took herself out of the equation and you didn't have to do any of the dirty work.
> 
> What probably honked her off the most is she couldn't keep her story straight and didn't like that you were holding her accountable for her stories and her "vetting" comment was because she thinks her platinum vagina should exempt her from any vetting at all and it upset her that someone may not be bending over backwards for her.
> 
> You're going to run into that quite a bit going forward. Lots of women will have that mentality. Don't fall for it and don't chase and don't settle.
> 
> Now that being said, when I initially read your post, I was thinking the same thing as Rob. There is a line between interrogation and prying into someone's personal life and learning about them as a person. The whole reason for dating is to get to know someone and find out what kind of person they are and how they manage their life and their relationships and such in an effort to see if their beliefs and values and temperments etc are compatible and in line with each other.
> 
> I don't think asking someone how many people they've been to bed with is an appropriate question although many here do. I don't think you will ever get an honest answer anyway. ( I tend to believe in The Law of 3s, where men multiply their number by 3 and women divide their number by at least 3)
> 
> But I think clarifying a story that has fundamentally changed is not only valid but necessary. It's showing deception and manipulation. The fact that she was angered and upset by being called out on that was probably an even bigger glimpse into her mentality and character.
> 
> And for a woman to be disgusted by the thought of being "vetted" is a real big insight into her character and her level of entitlement. Yes, ladies, you too are being vetted and evaluated on your merits as well.
> 
> An honorable, quality woman will not only understand that but will embrace that and see a man who has his own values and criteria as a positive attribute. A man that will accept anyone that gives him the time of day is a turn off to a quality woman.


If they think # asked is inappropriate then there should not be a problem if a year or two down the road the guy finds out and leaves because it is higher that he would tolerate in a spouse. 

I remained chaste until 22 though I had opportunity. I was a romantic looking for the innocent young lady that felt the same. Finally gave up and then met my wife at 24. Luckily she had married at 17 and was divorcing her WS. So I hoped she had not been around, being 27.


----------



## marko polo

ArthurGPym said:


> I have not spoken to him. *The door is open if he ever wants to call me, but it is probably better for everyone if he doesn't. * I do miss both the boys, which is why I will never get involved with a woman with minor kids again.


Consider blocking his number. Not out of any cruelty or malice toward him but his mother will not likely stop using his number as a means to communicate with you. If she feels she can pull on your heart strings through the boy, she will.

Your heart is in the right place and your ex is hoping to bleed it dry in her hour of need.


----------



## Tdbo

ArthurGPym said:


> Little harsh there Rob...
> 
> I wasn't interrogating her, not anywhere near that. It was the third time we had gone out, we were talking over dessert, and her story of how she and her ex broke up changed considerably from the prior time she had told me about it. I caught some inconsistencies in her story and simply asked her why her story changed. She got offended that I noticed and when I told her it was a legit question she got angry. That led to her getting all hot and the date ending fairly abruptly. She left me behind in the restaurant and when I caught up to her she refused to let me take her home. I guess she called an Uber home because I went ahead and left. At first I thought she had overreacted, but then later on I thought it might have all been an act. She knew she got caught in a lie and when she couldn't think of a way out of the lie she feigned anger as a diversionary tactic. When I still wasn't buying what she was selling she got up and left in a huff. I think it was kind of humorous looking back on it. Not a big issue for me anyway as I wasn't really into her and probably would not have asked her out again anyways.


The good news: You dodged another Drama Queen.
The bad news: You attracted another Drama Queen.


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## colingrant

ArthurGPym said:


> Not trying to belabor this thread, but I wanted to share something funny with you all. I lost a potential girlfriend last night. She said I was "vetting" her too much: i.e. asking too many questions about her past, probing into her private life too much. She didn't like the questions I was asking her about her prior relationship where she suddenly ended a ten year long term partnership for nebulous reasons. She stormed off and I sat there and realized I just dodged a narcissist. If not for what I have learned from TAM I might have set myself up for another emotional ass kicking down the road. Thank you all for the wisdom you have imparted to me. You really cannot trust anyone anymore.


You didn't lose a potential girlfriend. You lost a potential PROBLEM.


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## Chuck71

Yo......... hows life?


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Little harsh there Rob...
> 
> I wasn't interrogating her, not anywhere near that. It was the third time we had gone out, we were talking over dessert, and her story of how she and her ex broke up changed considerably from the prior time she had told me about it. I caught some inconsistencies in her story and simply asked her why her story changed. She got offended that I noticed and when I told her it was a legit question she got angry. That led to her getting all hot and the date ending fairly abruptly. She left me behind in the restaurant and when I caught up to her she refused to let me take her home. I guess she called an Uber home because I went ahead and left. At first I thought she had overreacted, but then later on I thought it might have all been an act. She knew she got caught in a lie and when she couldn't think of a way out of the lie she feigned anger as a diversionary tactic. When I still wasn't buying what she was selling she got up and left in a huff. I think it was kind of humorous looking back on it. Not a big issue for me anyway as I wasn't really into her and probably would not have asked her out again anyways.


Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing.


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## ArthurGPym

Chuck71 said:


> Yo......... hows life?


Doing well. Thank you for asking. A lot has been going on. I have been extremely busy lately as I have embarked on a business venture and have been putting in a good 80 hours a week getting it up and running. Hopefully once all is set up and in place I can peel back to a more normal 30-40. Semi-retirement was not suiting me well. I realized that one of the reasons I allowed a fraud like my exGF into my life was because I had gotten lackadaisical. I had lost my purpose and direction. Well, you all saw where that got me. 

So I went about looking to start a venture into something that I was passionate about and that is what I have been pouring myself into, and I feel a thousand times better about myself. I have realized that I am most content when I am working, setting goals and meeting them. Dating, casual sex and looking for validation in others is a dead end. That is a lesson that I learned after the fiasco with my ex-wife, then forgot, then had to re-learn again after this last train wreck. I don't date much at all anymore and I am learning to be comfortable in my own company. I have many male friends who are doing the same as me. I have my dogs, my garden, my music, and my new business. Loneliness and aimlessness are no longer factors in my life.


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## Marc878

You have found out you don’t need anyone. A good place to be.
Never accept the unacceptable.


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## ArthurGPym

Marc878 said:


> You have found out you don’t need anyone. A good place to be.
> Never accept the unacceptable.


Well I do need people, and I do appreciate my friends and family. I definitely don't need a steady romantic partner, at least not now at this point in my life.


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## ccpowerslave

Every time I felt really low my guitar never let me down!


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## ArthurGPym

ccpowerslave said:


> Every time I felt really low my guitar never let me down!


Nope. Music has been the one single sure thing in my life.


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## sideways

Arthur checking in to see how you're doing?

Also has Sarah made any attempts to try to contact you? Do you have any idea what she's up to through your mutual friend? Not that you care but was just curious.

Also has her son reached out to you?


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## BoSlander

Marc878 said:


> Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing.


Exactly! This! ^^

Polls show that a rather disturbing amount of people who get divorced end up dating the person they divorced after the divorce or have casual sex with them (booty calls). ArthurGPym plight goes deeper than that, his girlfriend "sold" him a level of exclusivity that did not resemble real life. And as is often the case, these double-dippers are happy only when the two "situations" are distinctly separated and any interaction between the actors is minimized. The way his girlfriend acted during the funeral was a huge red flag. At the very least, she should've asked ArthurGPym to sit right next to her and her ex. Problem is that she probably did not want him there in the hopes that ArthurGPym didn't find out about the other "situation." 

I went through something similar with my wife. She's a school psychologist and she always mentions the names of the people she works with but... she always makes sure not to go past certain point. Like we were invited to a wedding where two of the teachers in her school (well known for adultery) were getting married. I attended the wedding against my wife's wishes. That I was ignored all night by my wife and her colleagues is an understatement. I got so fed up I turned my back on her and the rest of the table and watched the band play. At one point my wife tapped me in the shoulder, insinuated I was drunk (not true,) and I said good night to the people at the table, no one reciprocated. Weirdest f-cking night of my life. The teachers ended up divorcing two years later and him re-marrying 4 years after that (my wife attended the second wedding alone). Moral of the story is that my wife had made emotional connections with colleagues that, at certain points in time and space, trump the connections she had with me. I had to sit her down and explain what was wrong with her behavior and it took a while... she kept on blaming the "situation" on the fact that I was "drunk" but... one word got her to come to terms with my point really quickly: divorce. 

These cheaters will create a clusterf-ck of an emotional construction, make you the (unsuspecting) lead actor in the "situation" and then throw a tantrum when you uncover what is going on.


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## ArthurGPym

Looking back Sarah was a people-pleaser, which I am ardently not. I have struggled since breaking up with her to distinguish what was real about her behavior towards me and whet was fake. I have come to the conclusion that the person I was dating was a construct... a virtual reality screen hiding what she really was underneath. The fact that she was able to play this role for a year was an astounding display of endurance.


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## ArthurGPym

sideways said:


> Arthur checking in to see how you're doing?
> 
> Also h*as Sarah made any attempts to try to contact you*? Do you have any idea what she's up to through your mutual friend? Not that you care but was just curious.
> 
> *Also has her son reached out to you*?


No I have not heard from either of them. I have ceased hanging out with those mutual friends. I succeeded in bowing out stage-left without knocking over any scenery on my way out the door. As far as my life goes, I have gone back to the way things were pre-Sarah. I live alone and content with my dogs and my music, and I have occasional hookups with various single women, many of whom i have known for years and who are themselves not looking to ever marry again. I started a small home-based business which has taken off and is doing very well.


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## sideways

ArthurGPym said:


> No I have not heard from either of them. I have ceased hanging out with those mutual friends. I succeeded in bowing out stage-left without knocking over any scenery on my way out the door. As far as my life goes, I have gone back to the way things were pre-Sarah. I live alone and content with my dogs and my music, and I have occasional hookups with various single women, many of whom i have known for years and who are themselves not looking to ever marry again. I started a small home-based business which has taken off and is doing very well.


Sounds like you have clarity and are at peace. Glad to hear the business is taking off.


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## ArthurGPym

sideways said:


> Sounds like you have clarity and are at peace. Glad to hear the business is taking off.


Thank you.


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## BoSlander

ArthurGPym said:


> Looking back Sarah was a people-pleaser, which I am ardently not. I have struggled since breaking up with her to distinguish what was real about her behavior towards me and whet was fake.  I have come to the conclusion that the person I was dating was a construct... a virtual reality screen hiding what she really was underneath. The fact that she was able to play this role for a year was an astounding display of endurance.


My wife is also a people-pleaser. She likes to think of herself as "very social," but the only reason people engage her is because they know they can ask her to do backflips and she'll do them! No pushback whatsoever. She confuses real friendship with people that are around her because they need her. A power trip. She tries to gaslight me once in a while by saying that I'm not social at all (which is ********) and I always shut her down but her impression is that I can't socialize, which is funny to me because part of my job depends on me socializing with people outside of my firm and most of the friends that invite us to get togethers are MY friends, not hers. Her friends are the type to not return your calls when you lost your job and not invite you to lunch. But still she tries.

I know it has to do with Richard (the OM) being more "social" (meaning he likes to cultivate shallow work-related relationships like my wife) than me but STILL. Irrational at best.

People-pleasers are the easiest of the bunch to fall for an emotional affair.


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## ArthurGPym

JBLH said:


> My wife is also a people-pleaser. She likes to think of herself as "very social," but the only reason people engage her is because they know they can ask her to do backflips and she'll do them! No pushback whatsoever. She confuses real friendship with people that are around her because they need her. A power trip. She tries to gaslight me once in a while by saying that I'm not social at all (which is ******) and I always shut her down but her impression is that I can't socialize, which is funny to me because part of my job depends on me socializing with people outside of my firm and most of the friends that invite us to get togethers are MY friends, not hers. Her friends are the type to not return your calls when you lost your job and not invite you to lunch. But still she tries.
> 
> I know it has to do with Richard (the OM) being more "social" (meaning he likes to cultivate shallow work-related relationships like my wife) than me but STILL. Irrational at best.
> 
> People-pleasers are the easiest of the bunch to fall for an emotional affair.


Same with my ex. She is a copy of yours. She craves shallow, superficial “friendships” that are shorter than the lifespan of a fruitfly. She always teased me for being a wallflower which I definitely am not. I have lots of long term friends who I have had for decades. My business depended on my developing strong personal relationships with my clients and vendors. A wallflower I am not. I prefer to be alone and value my solitude . Sarah had to be bending someone’s ear 24/7. She literally cannot go an hour without some form of human contact.


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## Marc878

ArthurGPym said:


> Looking back Sarah was a people-pleaser, which I am ardently not. I have struggled since breaking up with her to distinguish what was real about her behavior towards me and whet was fake. I have come to the conclusion that the person I was dating was a construct... a virtual reality screen hiding what she really was underneath. The fact that she was able to play this role for a year was an astounding display of endurance.


I think it’s easy for them because that’s who they really are.


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## Marc878

JBLH said:


> Exactly! This! ^^
> 
> Polls show that a rather disturbing amount of people who get divorced end up dating the person they divorced after the divorce or have casual sex with them (booty calls). ArthurGPym plight goes deeper than that, his girlfriend "sold" him a level of exclusivity that did not resemble real life. And as is often the case, these double-dippers are happy only when the two "situations" are distinctly separated and any interaction between the actors is minimized. The way his girlfriend acted during the funeral was a huge red flag. At the very least, she should've asked ArthurGPym to sit right next to her and her ex. Problem is that she probably did not want him there in the hopes that ArthurGPym didn't find out about the other "situation."
> 
> I went through something similar with my wife. She's a school psychologist and she always mentions the names of the people she works with but... she always makes sure not to go past certain point. Like we were invited to a wedding where two of the teachers in her school (well known for adultery) were getting married. I attended the wedding against my wife's wishes. That I was ignored all night by my wife and her colleagues is an understatement. I got so fed up I turned my back on her and the rest of the table and watched the band play. At one point my wife tapped me in the shoulder, insinuated I was drunk (not true,) and I said good night to the people at the table, no one reciprocated. Weirdest f-cking night of my life. The teachers ended up divorcing two years later and him re-marrying 4 years after that (my wife attended the second wedding alone). Moral of the story is that my wife had made emotional connections with colleagues that, at certain points in time and space, trump the connections she had with me. I had to sit her down and explain what was wrong with her behavior and it took a while... she kept on blaming the "situation" on the fact that I was "drunk" but... one word got her to come to terms with my point really quickly: divorce.
> 
> These cheaters will create a clusterf-ck of an emotional construction, make you the (unsuspecting) lead actor in the "situation" and then throw a tantrum when you uncover what is going on.


If you lay around with dogs you get up with fleas. 
Why keep yourself entangled in that scenario?
You do have a choice.


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## BoSlander

ArthurGPym said:


> She literally cannot go an hour without some form of human contact.


So is my wife. If she'd home all day, she'll do a little bit of work around the house, pretend she has a migraine episode and go to sleep. Out of commission for the rest of the day, even if my son and I have plans to go somewhere. NOW, if she gets a phone call from one of the soccer moms, her migraine goes away immediately, takes a shower, dresses up and leaves the house in less than an hour. I'm like....


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## Marc878

JBLH said:


> So is my wife. If she'd home all day, she'll do a little bit of work around the house, pretend she has a migraine episode and go to sleep. Out of commission for the rest of the day, even if my son and I have plans to go somewhere. NOW, if she gets a phone call from one of the soccer moms, her migraine goes away immediately, takes a shower, dresses up and leaves the house in less than an hour. I'm like....


You either get it or you will only get more.


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## BoSlander

Marc878 said:


> You either get it or you will only get more.


I hear ya. 

She's been warned.


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## Marc878

JBLH said:


> I hear ya.
> 
> She's been warned.


Sorry but words probably won’t get you a thing. When someone shows you who they are and you ignore it. It’s all on you.


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## sideways

JBLH said:


> I hear ya.
> 
> She's been warned.


"She's been warned"???

Listen you started a thread here on TAM, got a lot of advice (28 pages if I'm not mistaken). You said you served her papers, and then you disappeared here and went to another site (SI) and started telling them your story and left out a lot of the details you shared here. 

You also never came back to TAM to give an update. You've stated on SI that you made your wife take a poly and that she passed. That now you're having doubts? 

So you come back to TAM, not on your thread with an update to let the people who took the time to help you, but instead decided to T/J on this thread??

Good grief.


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## Divinely Favored

Marc878 said:


> If you lay around with dogs you get up with fleas.
> Why keep yourself entangled in that scenario?
> You do have a choice.


Some times it's dog ticks!


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## ArthurGPym

I sometimes think I should have the mods freeze this thread. Not because I don't appreciate the interaction between myself and all of my TAM friends, but because I am really starting to move on from Sarah, and continuing to talk about it hashes up old negative emotions that I have done a pretty good job at processing and leaving behind. ...Kind of like going to the garbage bin and opening up the old smelly trash bags and sifting through them again. It's not serving me to keep rehashing everything that happened. I no longer miss Sarah or have any residual feelings. I don't hate her. I guess I feel pity for her because she really is a screwed up woman and I am sure she is going to continue this cycle of behavior with other partners. I cannot save her, and it is not my job to do so. It never was. I have accepted that I am unlucky when it comes to choosing partners. My ex-wife let me down and Sarah let me down. Despite my experience, I don't seem to be improving my ERA. 

I will continue posting in other people's threads and offer some of what I have learned through my past experiences, but I would rather leave Sarah behind, in the past, where she belongs.


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## LisaDiane

ArthurGPym said:


> I sometimes think I should have the mods freeze this thread. Not because I don't appreciate the interaction between myself and all of my TAM friends, but because I am really starting to move on from Sarah, and continuing to talk about it hashes up old negative emotions that I have done a pretty good job at processing and leaving behind. ...Kind of like going to the garbage bin and opening up the old smelly trash bags and sifting through them again. It's not serving me to keep rehashing everything that happened. I no longer miss Sarah or have any residual feelings. I don't hate her. I guess I feel pity for her because she really is a screwed up woman and I am sure she is going to continue this cycle of behavior with other partners. I cannot save her, and it is not my job to do so. It never was. I have accepted that I am unlucky when it comes to choosing partners. My ex-wife let me down and Sarah let me down. Despite my experience, I don't seem to be improving my ERA.
> 
> I will continue posting in other people's threads and offer some of what I have learned through my past experiences, but I would rather leave Sarah behind, in the past, where she belongs.


I think that's a great idea, just have it locked!!! You sound like you are in a great place and have alot of wisdom to share when needed, but there is no reason to keep answering questions about this ONE (crappy) life experience anymore. This doesn't define you. 

Drop it like a ton of bricks and move on. And continue being happy!!!


----------

