# Resentment, no attraction but love. Help!



## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Dear all
I would really appreciate some advice. I’ve been married 14 years to my wife. She’s 35 and I’m 46 but the age gap has never been a problem. We have 3 boys aged 11,8 and 5. When we got married, sex was enjoyable and affectionate. 3 months into the marriage my wife lost her sexual appetite, on our honeymoon in amazing Tahiti from the pill. I have a very high sex drive and throughout the marriage always “expected” sex. Mornings, evenings even if my wife wasn’t up for it. She never really enjoyed it and was in pain for many years (she found out it was food allergy related). I then got severely depressed (not from this) and expected sex more otherwise I would get VERY moody. Long and short of it my wife resents me for this behaviour. We’ve had 2 sets of different marriage therapy counselling the last 2 years. I have seen my wrongs and feel totally embarrassed for the lack of respect I have given her these years. I wish I could undo this but can’t. Slight blip in this story that about 4-5 years ago she got a one year period of exceptionally high libido during my depression. Almost a role reversal. At this point she made hurtful comments that she saw me as a sibling and wanted to explore sex with other men. She has since retracted these comments. She recently told me she is no longer attracted to me and that hit me so hard I can’t stop thinking about it. I really love her, she loves me, we get along well, parent the kids well but she doesn’t think she can get over the way I expected sex and put pressure on her all the time. I feel we’re heading for divorce and suggested separation for 3-6 months. We haven’t had sex for over 2 months, abstained from kissing and cuddling. What really hurts me is the way she looks at me with resentment, almost hatred. I feel lost and would appreciate advice.

do you think our marriage is repairable?
was she ever attracted to me?
is separation a better option than going straight for divorce
she told her parents who suggested we compromise. I am 46 and need to see my wife look at me with love instead of resentment. What compromise, am I being naive?
Any other guidance for a broken, lost, repenting guy would be so appreciated. Thanks


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

No it is not repairable. You both have blown it at just about every turn.

Odds are that she we never attracted or really loved you in any way, maybe as a brother. And I guess you being really inexperienced just went along with it.

Just start the divorce process it takes long enough as it is.

You are being completely Naïve, for about a hundred reasons.

1) She is done and she was done when she talked to you years ago about other men. She was probably cheating on you then with someone she liked having sex with.

2) You know absolutely nothing about sex, and you need to learn for when you start dating again if you ever do.

3) You should have never ever married her in the first place.

4) Did you not know that she was not enjoying sex with you??? Could you not tell? Did you ever think to read a book??? Nothing?

Bottom line, you have made almost every mistake you can make. It is time to end it. You need to learn what an actual loving relationship looks like. You need to learn about women. If you do some work and show some personal growth, then you may have a chance at a happy life with another women, but only if you figure out what is going on in a lot of areas in your life...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mrchiller said:


> do you think our marriage is repairable?
> was she ever attracted to me?
> is separation a better option than going straight for divorce
> she told her parents who suggested we compromise. *I am 46 and need to see my wife look at me with love instead of resentment.* What compromise, am I being naive?


Love is not alway easy to recognize. Especially tough love! 

About the ONLY attribute consistent in all forms of love would be patience. If you ask your wife if she loves you and she responds, "well, I'm still here!" ...then you might actually have something to work with and save your marriage. You just have to learn how to appreciate love in all the different forms and ways that it happens and start being grateful instead of so needy.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I understand where your wife is coming from. Somewhere down the line with my marriage, my ex husbands treatment toward me just made me lose respect for him. And then it was over for me. I tried hard to get it back, and to do the wifely thing because deep down I knew I loved him. But I just was so disappointed in him. One day he wanted to have sex and he was doing all the things and I could not get wet for the life of me. And he was like wow, even your vagina hates me. And it was a pivotal moment because that is something I cannot control or fake it till you make it. And the truth was who he turned into was not someone I like or respected.

And we talked about it and I wanted nothing more than my marriage to work out. But that would involve him changing into a different person. It was really sad. And he was just like you don’t even like me. And it was true. I loved him so much when I met him and throughout many years, but life changed him and he became a man I didn’t respect. 
And that’s something you either have for someone or you don’t. 


All you can do is take a good look at yourself and see if you like who you are. If not, change. As for your wife, it seems she has decided she doesn’t like you anymore, or your not who she thought you are, or who she thinks you should be. If both of you agree on who you should be, then maybe it can work.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Slight blip in this story that about 4-5 years ago she got a one year period of exceptionally high libido during my depression. Almost a role reversal. At this point she made hurtful comments that she saw me as a sibling and wanted to explore sex with other men. 

How do you know she didnt?


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## examp (Aug 6, 2020)

I dont think you should give up. Why not go back to your marriage counsellors. They must know a lot about both of you. The correct thing really is to ask her also to post on her. Let us hear her side of the story. I dont know why no one does that here. I am new here and maybe they do but I have not yet seen it.. It would be cheaper than therapists and you would get better results. You also have children to consider. You dont tell us what you and your wife did before you met which could have a bearing. You say her parents want you to stay, that is a start. It sounds like she agrees. I certainly dont think all is lost. People say things in anger when they dont really mean them. Dont put so much into it.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

I’m 99.99% sure she has never cheated on me. She’s on her phone 5 hours a day every day, so that’s why it’s not 100%


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I understand where your wife is coming from. Somewhere down the line with my marriage, my ex husbands treatment toward me just made me lose respect for him. And then it was over for me. I tried hard to get it back, and to do the wifely thing because deep down I knew I loved him. But I just was so disappointed in him. One day he wanted to have sex and he was doing all the things and I could not get wet for the life of me. And he was like wow, even your vagina hates me. And it was a pivotal moment because that is something I cannot control or fake it till you make it. And the truth was who he turned into was not someone I like or respected.
> 
> And we talked about it and I wanted nothing more than my marriage to work out. But that would involve him changing into a different person. It was really sad. And he was just like you don’t even like me. And it was true. I loved him so much when I met him and throughout many years, but life changed him and he became a man I didn’t respect.
> And that’s something you either have for someone or you don’t.
> ...


Thanks for your comments. So I have changed the last year or so and willing to change more if that’s what it takes. She needs to change too in her perception of me in that if I am 90% a good loving caring person and used to be a monster expecting sex for 10%, she will always see the 10% past monster. I just think she’s clocked out of the marriage .....


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for your comments. So I have changed the last year or so and willing to change more if that’s what it takes. She needs to change too in her perception of me in that if I am 90% a good loving caring person and used to be a monster expecting sex for 10%, she will always see the 10% past monster. I just think she’s clocked out of the marriage .....


Might be. And she probably doesn’t think she needs to change.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Women can be attracted and still not want to have sex with you if they feel they've been disrespected or they've lost respect for you. Or they can simply not be attracted anymore and I suspect when she said she feels more like you're a brother to her that she is telling the truth. Women need the whole package to keep having sex with someone. They need to be attracted, respect and feel respected, and have feelings for you and feel like you have feelings for them. 

I suspect there's more to that high libido stage she went through and some connection to you being depressed and acting different. 

Maybe she felt that because of your change of mental state, for once you weren't pursuing her and she had more control and could move at her own pace and not feel like she was giving into something she resented which was you pressuring and insisting on her to have sex all those years. Maybe she wants to feel like she's the one who gets to exercise the choice of when. 

Even if that is the case I still don't think this is sustainable. Too much water under the bridge.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You used her as a cum dump with no regard to her. 

I had the same problem with the pill. I went on it when we got married and it wrecked my libido. So after 3 months I went off it. I discussed going off with my husband letting him know it made me feel weird. He happily agreed even though that meant condoms. He knew it also meant sex. The pill was super effective as it made me completely not want sex.

I don't think you can save this. When people show you who they are believe them. You showed her who you are and how you value her.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Mrchiller said:


> I’m 99.99% sure she has never cheated on me. She’s on her phone 5 hours a day every day, so that’s why it’s not 100%


Being on the phone constantly is a sign of cheating, Texting all the time.

Does she let you read her phone, go through her phone???

It does not really matter she is done...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Being on the phone all the time is a form of escapism. It’s not good.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> She is done and she was done when she talked to you years ago about other men. She was probably cheating on you then with someone she liked having sex with.





Mrchiller said:


> I’m 99.99% sure she has never cheated on me. She’s on her phone 5 hours a day every day, so that’s why it’s not 100%


Chiller, if I was putting money on it, I'd go with she did have something on the side. Here's the thing Dawg. Women don't like a man that practices what I call "masterbatus in vaganus"


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> Being on the phone constantly is a sign of cheating, Texting all the time.
> 
> Does she let you read her phone, go through her phone???
> 
> It does not really matter she is done...


We know each other’s passcodes so if I wanted to go on her phone I could, but something I don’t feel I need to do. I trust her.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Mrchiller said:


> We know each other’s passcodes so if I wanted to go on her phone I could, but something I don’t feel I need to do. I trust her.


OK you know best. You know that you can delete text messages and that some apps delete them automatically. 

I hope that your head in the sand gets you though the nigh. And it still does not matter, she is done. Women that are done, are done.

God bless and good luck.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

At some point during all of that, she likely did get with another man(s). Perhaps she is still involved in one way or another. 

There is a very succinct and to-the-point podcast that does a real good job of explaining some nuts-and-bolts signs that a wife is having an affair. 

It is a channel called "Dad Starting Over" and the episode is titled "The Seven Signs Your Wife is Cheating." (or something very similar) 

Anyway your wife has pretty much all of those signs. there is a very low likelihood that she has not got with someone else. 

No husband thinks that his wife "has time" for an affair. But adulterous trysts take place in literally minutes. meeting in the back of a park on the way to/from the grocery store. Swinging by a motel room on the way to/from work for. 

In my young, single days when I was hooking up with a number of married women I literally got a phone call from the pay phone (this was early '90s before everyone had cell phones) at the elementary school and the WW told me she could swing by my house after dropping the kids off but she only had 5 minutes. When I answered the door she barged in and was dropping her clothes on the way to the bedroom and she reiterated we only had 5 minutes before her H would start wondering where she was. I didn't think we could do it but we were both done and good to go in maybe 6 minutes tops. 

The reason I cite that example to people is to demonstrate that this is for real and everyone has time.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My wife and I went through miniature hell together... she had cancerous thyroid, major exhaustion issues, and no “drive” for weeks and months (usually after giving birth, newborns, etc). Luckily, I mostly kept my big mouth shut and suffered (and suffered) through the pangs of sexual frustration.... My point is I’d discourage men from just harassing their wives for sex. Asking for a quickie is sometimes necessary but other times you better just go run 5 miles, punch the bag for three hours, or just generally go hurt yourself in contact sports until you wrestle your body under control. You asking for two-a-days and getting moody really, really wrecked it. My wife luckily forgave my harassment however she’s a saint and I typically would bother her once a week (tops) and then only at a time mostly convenient and I usually made an attempt at wooing or humor “you won’t feel a thing and I’ll take kids outside for 10 hours” lol... being a jerk really gets you nowhere with wives.

I think you could salvage it... but you really need some major training on how to be a gentleman, no offense. Stay away from porn... that will wreck it too.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> No husband thinks that his wife "has time" for an affair. But adulterous trysts take place in literally minutes. meeting in the back of a park on the way to/from the grocery store. Swinging by a motel room on the way to/from work for.
> 
> 
> The reason I cite that example to people is to demonstrate that this is for real and everyone has time.


Oh gosh I have another great example but with a different spin. 

Several years ago I got sick and broke out with weird and nasty rash from head to toe. I ended up in the hospital for a few days and probably had a gallon of blood and urine and every other body fluid and substance drained from me for testing and even had blood sent to the Mayo Clinic in the US and even some sent to France for testing. 

Anyway, the infectious disease people came in, asked my wife to leave and closed the door and set in to interrogating me on where I had been and what I may have been exposed to. After the usual questioning about any travel outside the country or being around anyone that was sick etc etc they started grilling me on my whereabouts and about my sexual habits and lifestyle. 

They asked me if I had cheated on my wife - answer =no. 

They asked if she had ever cheated on me - answer = not that I am aware of. 

The next question was straight-faced, look into the eyes and deadpan tone of voice asked if my wife had been in my presence 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the past 10 years straight. 

My answer of course was no, to which they replied that they would be testing me for syphlis, HIV, Hepatitis, Gonorhea, Chymidia and basically every STI known to man. 

The point here is, the infectious disease doctors know that there is no such thing as someone being assured their spouse hasn't been with anyone else.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mrchiller said:


> We know each other’s passcodes so if I wanted to go on her phone I could, but something I don’t feel I need to do. I trust her.


The reason your not looking into her actives is not because you trust her but because you know what you’ll find and then you won’t be able to kid yourself anymore.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’d like to add that if you are able to weather this marriage “storm” it could lead to sunny days ahead. I think you could grow to an even deeper and more mature love... 

Don’t listen to all these cheater theories- you know your wife. Every time I’ve thought my wife had ulterior motives- I’ve been proven dead wrong. There just happens to be a lot of freaks on TAM.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d like to add that if you are able to weather this marriage “storm” it could lead to sunny days ahead. I think you could grow to an even deeper and more mature love...
> 
> Don’t listen to all these cheater theories- you know your wife. Every time I’ve thought my wife had ulterior motives- I’ve been proven dead wrong. There just happens to be a lot of freaks on TAM.


You know that calling us freaks is kind of like a kettle calling a pot black. 

And it is against the rules.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d like to add that if you are able to weather this marriage “storm” it could lead to sunny days ahead. I think you could grow to an even deeper and more mature love...
> 
> Don’t listen to all these cheater theories- you know your wife. Every time I’ve thought my wife had ulterior motives- I’ve been proven dead wrong. There just happens to be a lot of freaks on TAM.


Thanks for your words of re-assurance. Well after some really wise comments from people on TAM, I’m going to throw the kitchen sink at saving my marriage and stop feeling sorry for myself. My wife isn’t a cheater. At least I know I tried.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for your words of re-assurance. Well after some really wise comments from people on TAM, I’m going to throw the kitchen sink at saving my marriage and stop feeling sorry for myself. My wife isn’t a cheater. At least I know I tried.


Are you wanting to save your marriage or are you wanting to save your happiness, sanity, dignity, masculinity and well being?

All it takes to save a marriage is to not divorce. Not divorcing is not the same as living a full and happy life and having a healthy and happy relationship.

You may well be able to brow beat her into not divorcing. 

But you have a very big spread between remaining under the same roof and having a healthy and happy life together. 

Are BOTH of you going to be up to that task? You won’t be able to do it by yourself without her reciprocity and good faith effort as well. 

Is she going to throw the in the kitchen sink as well?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for your words of re-assurance. Well after some really wise comments from people on TAM, I’m going to throw the kitchen sink at saving my marriage and stop feeling sorry for myself. My wife isn’t a cheater. At least I know I tried.


Excellent you've chosen a course of action. Now you need a plan. Do you have a plan as to how you are going to rebuild romantic feelings without dredging up the feelings of being used and not loved? 
I assume when you wrote your opener you recognized your past behavior was a problem because she has said something about it.
Do you know what is important to her? How do you plan to make her feel important and loved?
Have you read any books on healing marriages?
How in depth of a conversation have you two had about that her current feelings and what led to them?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for your words of re-assurance. Well after some really wise comments from people on TAM, I’m going to throw the kitchen sink at saving my marriage and stop feeling sorry for myself. My wife isn’t a cheater. At least I know I tried.


That’s cool brother. I like that you made a decision and shared it. Surely your wife knows- you’re not St. Joseph but likewise, she’s not the Blessed Mother. At least when it’s all said and done you could say you left it all on the “field” win or lose.

I put my wife through our own hell on earth: financial problems, failed business, moved a bunch of times when young/pregnant, arguing, immaturity, and on and on. A wise old war vet and ex-cop told me with a grin “it all heals” ... I never forgot it.

I’d like to start a thread on here about “Woo our wives” just for men to share how we can suck it up, be good hubbies, and repair the damage we’ve done..

I know one thing... going through hell together can really bring you together into something stronger and more real than just the shallow romance and attraction you start with.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d like to add that if you are able to weather this marriage “storm” it could lead to sunny days ahead. I think you could grow to an even deeper and more mature love...
> 
> Don’t listen to all these cheater theories- you know your wife. Every time I’ve thought my wife had ulterior motives- I’ve been proven dead wrong. There just happens to be a lot of freaks on TAM.


Are you kidding with this...?? Have you ever read the Adultery threads? EVERY SINGLE ONE starts out with the husband or wife saying, "I trust her/him...they can't be cheating"...!!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Resentment and no attraction, but love (the title) .....

Are words that aren't meant to be together in that type of sentence structure. 

It pretty much answers itself.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Excellent you've chosen a course of action. Now you need a plan. Do you have a plan as to how you are going to rebuild romantic feelings without dredging up the feelings of being used and not loved?
> I assume when you wrote your opener you recognized your past behavior was a problem because she has said something about it.
> Do you know what is important to her? How do you plan to make her feel important and loved?
> Have you read any books on healing marriages?
> How in depth of a conversation have you two had about that her current feelings and what led to them?


Good point. I don’t have a detailed plan as yet other than be the person I am that I know my wife loves ie funny, not needy, easy going, chilled with the kids. I think corona madness has meant we have been literally together with 3 boys 24/7 for 5 months and I think it’s healthier to spend some valuable time apart. So I plan to travel for work. I also am continuing my self well being, exercising well, eating well and looking after myself. Any other guidance?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Where did you go when dating? Do that again. Take her on some moonlit strolls. Bring her gifts or flowers for no reason. Make your boys respect her and make them help with everything from cleaning bathrooms to laundry and dishes. If your wife has a job that she hates (like cleaning toilets) take it over. If your boys disrespect her over anything- punish them as if they disrespected you.

Spend some time each day contemplating the Gospel reading of the day. Remember that eternity is all that really matters and you and her will be in your graves soon enough.

Strength training or powerlifting has a great impact on an older guy’s hormones and body and is a great stress reliever. Only minimal equipment is needed (bench, barbell, rack, and weight and basement/garage). You need to release your frustrations, anxiety, and tension in some way other than harassing her for sex. I imagine you have your own neglected outlet.

Always greet your wife with a warm smile and always kiss her and tell her goodnight. Imagine each interaction is like a subtle love dance. A hug held an extra second or two, a squeeze of her arm or hand, smile, brief eye contact... etc. I wouldn’t make a sexual move unless she reciprocates in some way.

If she starts reciprocating emotionally then advance slowly. Tell her you miss her. But, show her that you can take rejection and remain a gentleman.

If you can behave like this and the marriage has no signs of life... well that would be a pretty bad sign.

You don’t have to be a doormat though. If she’s continuing to mistreat you then that is something you’ll have to address. Likewise, if your wife is in a bad state emotionally or something- you’ll need to take the lead in getting her some medical help or therapy or whatever you and her deem necessary.

My thinking is that there’s a chance she didn’t really mean the hurtful things she said. My wife has said about everything in the book to me over the years except the thing about sleeping with other men. Obviously your wife either meant it OR really wanted to hurt you.... I’d hope for the latter.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> You know that calling us freaks is kind of like a kettle calling a pot black.
> 
> And it is against the rules.


Most of us on TAM are a bit obsessed with matters of a sexual nature- all I meant. I’m one of the freaks.

Pretty much any guy shows up on here with wife troubles- everyone assumes the wife is secretly HD and doing everyone in a six state radius. Lol


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Mrchiller said:


> We know each other’s passcodes so if I wanted to go on her phone I could, but something I don’t feel I need to do. I trust her.


When did you last have the privacy and boundary discussion? Never? It could be that you really don't know each other like you thought you did. Differing feelings about being open and vulnerability can be a disaster because the more open person believes the other will be similar. And their trust will be based on who they are themself, something that other person can take advantage of. 

Can you ask for, and would she consider, a reset? I think a separation would be the end of things; if she says she's fallen out of love with you, then she's going to be picking up on the first signs of feeling something sexual towards some guy and want to act on it. But what if you essentially start over? Discuss mutual interests, what sort of future each of you envision, what "security" means to you.

And both of you need to come clean on having screwed things up. 

The other thing, which I think you may already realize, is there may be a difference between what's best for each of you, individually, and the relationship. The marriage counselor will try to keep things intact, but it's likely both of you need individual counseling, and the individual counseling is going to ask some tough questions.

Best of luck. Sorry you're in this position.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> When did you last have the privacy and boundary discussion? Never? It could be that you really don't know each other like you thought you did. Differing feelings about being open and vulnerability can be a disaster because the more open person believes the other will be similar. And their trust will be based on who they are themself, something that other person can take advantage of.
> 
> Can you ask for, and would she consider, a reset? I think a separation would be the end of things; if she says she's fallen out of love with you, then she's going to be picking up on the first signs of feeling something sexual towards some guy and want to act on it. But what if you essentially start over? Discuss mutual interests, what sort of future each of you envision, what "security" means to you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your really wise and useful comments. I have asked for a reset and she keeps saying she wants to but doesn’t know how to forget the past. I like the idea of doing things when we dated, I was thinking of compiling a picture album of all the good times we’ve had together but not sure if that will come out as desperation?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You can ask for a reset but having sex with her when she wasn't interested and in PAIN. That's going to be tough thing to get past and feel like you are being loved. 

I remember after my daughter was born, I had ripped and been stitched and the surgeon took what's known as the husband stitch which tightens things up. When my husband and I went to have sex the first time after i told him to stop. Right in the middle/beginning. I was in so much pain and I didn't offer to finish him I wasn't even thinking about him because it hurt so much I was worried I just ripped something back open. I can tell you that time makes me love my husband more because he didn't ***** about having to stop in the middle he didn't want to try it again but a different position. He was worried about me. Sex for that time period was sparse and he never complained or tried to push things. After a while I came to the conclusion the only thing that could work is stretching is back out through sex. So then we had sex and I was in pain but it was my choice and I didn't tell him.

You can ask for a reset but her mind isn't going to magically forget the way you have treated her in the past. A reset is convenient for you. I'm sure she has things that need fixing too. 

Has she expressed her feelings on this? Have you read any books on the subject matter of marriage / connectedness and/or forgiveness? This is going to take more than a casual try. You are in a worse position than someone new trying to get her to fall in love with you. You have given her years of experiences she won't be able to forget those even if she wanted to. She may have some triggers as well. Sex may be something that triggers her feelings of resentment. You say you haven't had sex in over 2 months, why? Did she let you know she was done? Or have you not approached her? 

She has expressed interest in sex with other men. Most likely it is because she wants to see what that would be like. You say she didn't enjoy sex in your relationship, why is that? Were you a selfish lover? Did she get the foreplay and other items needed for a woman to orgasm?


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> You can ask for a reset but having sex with her when she wasn't interested and in PAIN. That's going to be tough thing to get past and feel like you are being loved.
> 
> I remember after my daughter was born, I had ripped and been stitched and the surgeon took what's known as the husband stitch which tightens things up. When my husband and I went to have sex the first time after i told him to stop. Right in the middle/beginning. I was in so much pain and I didn't offer to finish him I wasn't even thinking about him because it hurt so much I was worried I just ripped something back open. I can tell you that time makes me love my husband more because he didn't *** about having to stop in the middle he didn't want to try it again but a different position. He was worried about me. Sex for that time period was sparse and he never complained or tried to push things. After a while I came to the conclusion the only thing that could work is stretching is back out through sex. So then we had sex and I was in pain but it was my choice and I didn't tell him.
> 
> ...


I agree with a lot you have said - I’ve asked for us both to have a reset and start from scratch... the other option is live together with resentment and being miserable or the final option of divorce. My wife was the one to trigger both marriage counsellors, not me so I have confidence that she wants to salvage the marriage.
As for your questions, I couldn’t make her orgasm for 10 years. That’s when we started to communicate and I got a better understanding of what she liked and didn’t like. I think one night she orgasmed 4 times. I think the issue TBH was sex was the elephant in the room. Something we didn’t talk about. If you took sex out the equation, my wife says we have the perfect marriage. She has only expressed interest in other men during her high libido period and never since. I’m sure she sexually peaked or another person made a really valid point that she felt in control as I was very depressed. I think no marriage is perfect, what I don’t get is can my wife forgive me and channel herself back into the marriage.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> You can ask for a reset but having sex with her when she wasn't interested and in PAIN. That's going to be tough thing to get past and feel like you are being loved.
> 
> I remember after my daughter was born, I had ripped and been stitched and the surgeon took what's known as the husband stitch which tightens things up. When my husband and I went to have sex the first time after i told him to stop. Right in the middle/beginning. I was in so much pain and I didn't offer to finish him I wasn't even thinking about him because it hurt so much I was worried I just ripped something back open. I can tell you that time makes me love my husband more because he didn't *** about having to stop in the middle he didn't want to try it again but a different position. He was worried about me. Sex for that time period was sparse and he never complained or tried to push things. After a while I came to the conclusion the only thing that could work is stretching is back out through sex. So then we had sex and I was in pain but it was my choice and I didn't tell him.
> 
> ...


Sorry, forgot to ask. Do you have any book recommendations?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Mrchiller said:


> I agree with a lot you have said - I’ve asked for us both to have a reset and start from scratch... the other option is live together with resentment and being miserable or the final option of divorce. My wife was the one to trigger both marriage counsellors, not me so I have confidence that she wants to salvage the marriage.
> As for your questions, I couldn’t make her orgasm for 10 years. That’s when we started to communicate and I got a better understanding of what she liked and didn’t like. I think one night she orgasmed 4 times. I think the issue TBH was sex was the elephant in the room. Something we didn’t talk about. If you took sex out the equation, my wife says we have the perfect marriage. She has only expressed interest in other men during her high libido period and never since. I’m sure she sexually peaked or another person made a really valid point that she felt in control as I was very depressed. I think no marriage is perfect, what I don’t get is can my wife forgive me and channel herself back into the marriage.


Sex may be a subset of the real elephant in the closet; you touched briefly on control as well as her initiating the MC sessions. She may feel like she's lacked control in other areas of her life, and sex is the one place she can both exert control and judgement. Judgement when you ignored her attempts to control and put her in pain. 

You also touched on you wife's belief that, without sex in the picture, you have a perfect marriage. Has she ever gone through a period of time where, in fact, she did believe you had (or even have presently) the perfect marriage, ignoring entirely the issue of sex? As if she was living in two different worlds?


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Sex may be a subset of the real elephant in the closet; you touched briefly on control as well as her initiating the MC sessions. She may feel like she's lacked control in other areas of her life, and sex is the one place she can both exert control and judgement. Judgement when you ignored her attempts to control and put her in pain.
> 
> You also touched on you wife's belief that, without sex in the picture, you have a perfect marriage. Has she ever gone through a period of time where, in fact, she did believe you had (or even have presently) the perfect marriage, ignoring entirely the issue of sex? As if she was living in two different worlds?


I think you are right in that she is / was living in 2 different worlds; world 1 is the hard reality of being a mum of 3 energetic young boys and a wife, house wife etc world 2 is an escaped world at the gym and on her phone on Instagram or Facebook. She has said she is happy to live world 1 with me but no sex. I told her no marriage can survive with no physical intimacy and wanted an emotional, physical and sexual relationship with her in world 1.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Mrchiller said:


> I think you are right in that she is / was living in 2 different worlds; world 1 is the hard reality of being a mum of 3 energetic young boys and a wife, house wife etc world 2 is an escaped world at the gym and on her phone on Instagram or Facebook. She has said she is happy to live world 1 with me but no sex. I told her no marriage can survive with no physical intimacy and wanted an emotional, physical and sexual relationship with her in world 1.


It's possible that both of you have to work on what I call the 5-seconds-to-yes rule. If your spouse comes up with something to do, or you think of something you can do for your spouse, ANYTHING, find a way to agree to it and take action within 5 seconds. Do not spend time THINKING about it because that kills the buy-in. Just get moving and do it. I'm not talking about sex (but it applies there too). I'm talking about cleaning up, helping in the kitchen, seeing that her glass is empty and refilling it (and especially adding ice without being asked to). See something that you could do, do it. If you don't get into thinking mode, it becomes fun and natural because why wouldn't you want to do something for your spouse that would make them happy? 

5 seconds. That's all you've got. Don't give yourself time to think "Why should I?"

Another thing to look at- do a search on youtube for "The Sex Starved Marriage." It's a brilliant Ted talk that you should first watch yourself, and then watch it with your wife. She may find it uncomfortably-easy to relate to. And I don't think many LD partners have a clue what rejection feels like. This lays it out clearly, and points to the logical extrapolation.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

examp said:


> I dont think you should give up. Why not go back to your marriage counsellors. They must know a lot about both of you. The correct thing really is to ask her also to post on her. Let us hear her side of the story. I dont know why no one does that here. I am new here and maybe they do but I have not yet seen it.. It would be cheaper than therapists and you would get better results. You also have children to consider. You dont tell us what you and your wife did before you met which could have a bearing. You say her parents want you to stay, that is a start. It sounds like she agrees. I certainly dont think all is lost. People say things in anger when they dont really mean them. Dont put so much into it.


Are you going to invite your wife here to tell her side of your story?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Mrchiller said:


> She has since retracted these comments.


Sorry. It doesn't work. There is no such thing as retraction of comments. Once comments are made, they are made. The feelings and thoughts which prompted them have not changed.



Mrchiller said:


> I have asked for a reset and she keeps saying she wants to but doesn’t know how to forget the past.


None of us forget the past. We cannot forget it. We create a "reset" by not allowing the past to rule over our present.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Pretty much any guy shows up on here with wife troubles- everyone assumes the wife is secretly HD and doing everyone in a six state radius. Lol


No, people don’t jump to assumptions just because someone is having relationship issues. 

But some things are actual signs and red flags of someone developing feelings for a 3rd party if not an actual affair.

- significant change in sexual and physical affection dynamics is a red flag.

- on going resentment and hypercritical attitude are red flags.

- dead bedroom and consistent, ongoing rejection is a red flag.

- blatant disrespect and condescension, name calling etc where there hadn’t been before is an actual sign. 

- a female asking for an open marriage is as big of a sign as you are going to get with actual pictures or walking in on them.

- declaration of roommate/friend status or ILYBNILWY are actual signs. 

- wanting “space” and/or separation is a very classic sign. 

These are very documented and time-proven signs and red flags that should invoke a high index of suspicion. 

These are not assumptions.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> No, people don’t jump to assumptions just because someone is having relationship issues.
> 
> But some things are actual signs and red flags of someone developing feelings for a 3rd party if not an actual affair.
> 
> ...


There are also green flags:

my wife has triggered the 2 sets of marriage counsellor sessions, the first time I was resistant to but she persuaded me to go
she says she loves me but her actions support her words
she’s not into sex at all. We’ve been locked down for 5 months, there is no chance she’s having an affair, virtual or real during this period unless the dude is coming to our bed at 4am when I’m asleep


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Are you going to invite your wife here to tell her side of your story?


At this point I haven’t told her I’ve posted on a marriage forum as she’s sensitive and wants to go the counselling route, but if that fails, I think that’s a wonderful idea


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mrchiller said:


> There are also green flags:
> 
> my wife has triggered the 2 sets of marriage counsellor sessions, the first time I was resistant to but she persuaded me to go
> she says she loves me but her actions support her words
> she’s not into sex at all. We’ve been locked down for 5 months, there is no chance she’s having an affair, virtual or real during this period unless the dude is coming to our bed at 4am when I’m asleep


- willing to go to counseling is a better sign than the alternative but does not eliminate the possibility of a past or present 3rd party. 

- anyone can say anything. We are our actions. What we do means much more than what we say. Believe her actions, not her words.

- she’s not into sex with you. That doesn’t mean she hasn’t had or doesn’t now have feelings or involvements with someone else at some point. 

Just because you’ve been locked down the last several months doesn’t mean something has happened in the past and it doesn’t mean that she isn’t pining for someone now.


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## waynejoey (Jun 8, 2018)

Mrchiller said:


> Dear all
> I would really appreciate some advice. I’ve been married 14 years to my wife. She’s 35 and I’m 46 but the age gap has never been a problem. We have 3 boys aged 11,8 and 5. When we got married, sex was enjoyable and affectionate. 3 months into the marriage my wife lost her sexual appetite, on our honeymoon in amazing Tahiti, blaming the pill. I have a very high sex drive and throughout the marriage always “expected” sex. Mornings, evenings even if my wife wasn’t up for it. She never really enjoyed it and was in pain for many years (she found out it was food allergy related). I then got severely depressed (not from this) and expected sex more otherwise I would get VERY moody. Long and short of it my wife resents me for this behaviour. We’ve had 2 sets of different marriage therapy counselling the last 2 years. I have seen my wrongs and feel totally embarrassed for the lack of respect I have given her these years. I wish I could undo this but can’t. Slight blip in this story that about 4-5 years ago she got a one year period of exceptionally high libido during my depression. Almost a role reversal. At this point she made hurtful comments that she saw me as a sibling and wanted to explore sex with other men. She has since retracted these comments. She recently told me she is no longer attracted to me and that hit me so hard I can’t stop thinking about it. I really love her, she loves me, we get along well, parent the kids well but she doesn’t think she can get over the way I expected sex and put pressure on her all the time. I feel we’re heading for divorce and suggested separation for 3-6 months. We haven’t had sex for over 2 months, abstained from kissing and cuddling. What really hurts me is the way she looks at me with resentment, almost hatred. I feel lost and would appreciate advice.
> 
> do you think our marriage is repairable?
> ...


3 months into the marriage my wife lost her sexual appetite > very common, it is called the honeymoon period, enjoy that period for what it was then move on

I have a very high sex drive and throughout the marriage always “expected” sex. > Sex isn't a drive, it is an incentive system. Expectations are a bit of a love buster. I think first you have to look within yourself and answer a few questions: is the ultimate goal of my life sex? am I doing things that are inflating my desire unnaturally (looking at other women, porn, lustful thoughts, masturbating)? what is the best way for me to be assertive and communicate my desires without being demanding or clingy?

I would get VERY moody > as you have learned, not an effective way to get what you want

one year period of exceptionally high libido > whoa, weird. I hope that happens to me sounds like fun!

she made hurtful comments that she saw me as a sibling and wanted to explore sex with other men > danger danger! who knows what she really means by this, but you have a lot of work to do to win back your wife and be the head of your household

She recently told me she is no longer attracted to me > Ah, the old I love you but I'm not in love with you spiel. This garbage has been around for ages. Women can be fickle with emotion and sometimes not even understand themselves so they say crazy things. Again, same feedback here you need to win her back and become the head of your household.

I really love her, she loves me > Based on what you wrote I have no idea what your definition of love is or if your wife does either, you both sound very selfish. I recommend a book called 'The Love Dare' which will take about 5 mins of your time daily for 30 days, then you can learn what real love is, and not what hollywood taught you

I feel we’re heading for divorce and suggested separation for 3-6 months > first of all you can't predict the future that is a waste of brain energy, focus on living one day at a time, secondly you can't win your wife back if you are separated from her, why would you suggest such a ridiculous thing. You are driving her right into another man's bed.

Overcoming her resentment will take a lot of consistency and patience from you.

#1 - learn what love is, pick up the love dare
#2 - Check out every man's battle or beyond the battle, overcome your sex addiction, regain your power as a man
#3 - Then read Anchorman and then Wild at Heart to discover what masculinity truly looks like and the result will be your wife's desire returning for you


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

You asked for Books. Here are some suggestions. 

HIs needs Her needs
The Five Love languages. 
Couples Therapy Workbook: 30 Guided Conversations to Re-Connect Relationships

Please note I haven't ever experienced anything like what your relationship is going through. These are some that I though might help. However head over to amazon and look at each description yourself and decide what might be the best match for your situation. As I see it you wife has built up resentment, and doesn't trust you. I think she is emotionally disconnected from you no matter how much she says she loves you. So you must work on rebuilding the relationship and building trust. Even though you didn't cheat you may even want to read a few of the cheater books because they usually deal with rebuilding trust.

Also I'd like to say. In my opinion you should not bring your wife here or let her know about your thread. If you want any useful advice from us you need to be honest. You can always ask her questions people may have and report back but if you know she is reading you probably won't tell us the whole truth. Also this place can be brutal and 80% or more of the people are advised to divorce. So you might not want her telling her side because just from what I've read she'd have some stories to tell and she'd probably be advised to divorce. So since you want to save you marriage be honest with us. Read some books. 

Read the 5 love languages first. Once you know her love language it is easier to do things for her that will appeal to her and help you reconnect. Such as for me a guy doing dishes turns me on because my love language is acts of service. But for my friend she wants flowers or a gift.

Let's start with what you have done. How detailed a conversation have you had. She says she isn't attracted to you anymore have you explored what are the things that are turn offs? What things have caused resentment? IN your couples therapy what was discussed?

EDITED to add: And you may actually rebuild your relationship but I don't expect your sexual relationship to go back to you taking what you want or for her to be some wild party animal either. I think that part is ruined. It can get better than none in 2 months but think PTSD. So if that's what you are hoping for you should go ahead and figure out a plan forward with her to separate at some point. She may just be biding her time. For a certain age for the children or retirement or such.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> You asked for Books. Here are some suggestions.
> 
> HIs needs Her needs
> The Five Love languages.
> ...


Thanks for your incredibly useful book recommendations and comments.
We’ve had many detailed conversations and her attraction to me or lack of is linked to resenting me. In the last few weeks, she has started to hold my hand in the morning in bed after a few heart to heart conversations. I’ve also started individual 121 therapy to understand why I did what I did. The conversations we’ve had recently are realistic ones; if we didn’t have 3 kids we would be getting divorced. But we both agree it’s worth trying to salvage the marriage for their sake. She also appreciates that I am willing to change. Ironically she said if I cheated on her, she would be more likely to forgive me than my expectation for sex all these years, so rebuilding trust is key through open communication.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Mrchiller said:


> Thanks for your incredibly useful book recommendations and comments.
> We’ve had many detailed conversations and her attraction to me or lack of is linked to resenting me. In the last few weeks, she has started to hold my hand in the morning in bed after a few heart to heart conversations. I’ve also started individual 121 therapy to understand why I did what I did. The conversations we’ve had recently are realistic ones; if we didn’t have 3 kids we would be getting divorced. But we both agree it’s worth trying to salvage the marriage for their sake. She also appreciates that I am willing to change. Ironically she said if I cheated on her, she would be more likely to forgive me than my expectation for sex all these years, so rebuilding trust is key through open communication.


Isn't the answer obvious? You were selfish. You didn't really care if she was hurting and unsatisfied as long as you got what you wanted. Even now you're downplaying it with an, "Oopsie! I'm so embarrassed!" instead of being horrified about why you were able to get off all these years despite your wife's clear discomfort and lack of satisfaction. And at no point was that seen as a real issue to you until it directly affected you. Even after she made it clear why things were failing, you were still resistant to counseling - the only thing that might fix it. Now that you're in the dog house and divorce is on the table, now it's a problem to you. Do you see why that's so frustrating to her and why she can't just flip a switch? I also question if she settled for you given how quickly your sex life unraveled but that's not exactly what either of you say the real problem is and is only a conclusion she can come to on her own time.

Think about it. What if the roles were reversed? What if she was trying to hop on you every day multiple times a day but every time you did it, your **** would hurt and you didn't orgasm for 10 years? Would you have even had kids during that time? Would you have taken the initiative to try and make it work or would you have grown resentful? Would you still be feeling resentful today even after you learned to orgasm because she kept ignoring your pain and discomfort for 10 years and barely even lifted a finger to help fix it when you started saying it was a big problem for you? Sure as hell you'd be resentful and not feeling in love with her. We see guys in similar situations all the time who are resentful 10 years out. Granted it's not about too much sex but the point still stands. The disrespect and their spouse's refusal to see a problem and hear them out for years ruins their marriage. Go read the thread "The immovable object." posted by hangingontoit to see what I am talking about. His wife is trying and he's too resentful and fed up to bother with it but still doesn't want a divorce.

No one knows for sure if your wife is capable of finding new love and respect for you. I'd imagine not until you get more serious and start being more sincere in your acknowledgement of the ******** you've expected her to put up with until recently. And even then I question if she really did marry you for the right reasons given how quickly that spark died for her. Did you live together before marriage or was she completely unaware of your expectations?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

nekonamida said:


> No one knows for sure if your wife is capable of finding new love and respect for you. I'd imagine not until you get more serious and start being more sincere in your acknowledgement of the ****** you've expected her to put up with until recently. And even then I question if she really did marry you for the right reasons given how quickly that spark died for her. Did you live together before marriage or was she completely unaware of your expectations?


I think his participation here, and the tenor of his responses, is an indication that he is getting more serious and sincere. Yes, he was a ****, literally and figuratively that was his shining feature. The fact that change, from your experience or mine, is so difficult and unlikely does not it can't happen. It seems like this guy recognizes his issues and is hoping he can turn around and possibly mend things with his wife. I don't know if it can possibly happen. But I think he's doing exactly what you said he needs to. Getting more serious and more sincere about his role in the destruction of their marriage.


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## leMiz (Aug 19, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Women can be attracted and still not want to have sex with you if they feel they've been disrespected or they've lost respect for you. Or they can simply not be attracted anymore and I suspect when she said she feels more like you're a brother to her that she is telling the truth. Women need the whole package to keep having sex with someone. They need to be attracted, respect and feel respected, and have feelings for you and feel like you have feelings for them.
> 
> I suspect there's more to that high libido stage she went through and some connection to you being depressed and acting different.
> 
> ...





BluesPower said:


> Being on the phone constantly is a sign of cheating, Texting all the time.
> 
> Does she let you read her phone, go through her phone???
> 
> It does not really matter she is done...


I think that's overstated. Source: am on my phone hours each day; not cheating.


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## leMiz (Aug 19, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d like to start a thread on here about “Woo our wives” just for men to share how we can suck it up, be good hubbies, and repair the damage we’ve done.


Please, please, please do this


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I think his participation here, and the tenor of his responses, is an indication that he is getting more serious and sincere. Yes, he was a ****, literally and figuratively that was his shining feature. The fact that change, from your experience or mine, is so difficult and unlikely does not it can't happen. It seems like this guy recognizes his issues and is hoping he can turn around and possibly mend things with his wife. I don't know if it can possibly happen. But I think he's doing exactly what you said he needs to. Getting more serious and more sincere about his role in the destruction of their marriage.


It is "possible" that he could turn it around. But it is probably more possible that aliens will land in DC and take over the world. 

When a woman is done, she almost never changes her mind... 

But it is not impossible...


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> I think his participation here, and the tenor of his responses, is an indication that he is getting more serious and sincere. Yes, he was a ****, literally and figuratively that was his shining feature. The fact that change, from your experience or mine, is so difficult and unlikely does not it can't happen. It seems like this guy recognizes his issues and is hoping he can turn around and possibly mend things with his wife. I don't know if it can possibly happen. But I think he's doing exactly what you said he needs to. Getting more serious and more sincere about his role in the destruction of their marriage.


Thanks for your backing. I came on this forum for help and advice. I know what I have done was wrong, it did take a while for me to acknowledge this and I’m disgusted by my actions. It’s no excuse but I was severely depressed for 6 years - suicidal depressed and if anyone has experienced that, it’s the lowest of the low. It’s during this period my wife found my actions hurtful.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> When a woman is done, she almost never changes her mind...


That’s a very generic statement based on very little fact or stats. Every women is different, every marriage is different and every situation is different. All I’m asking for in this forum is advice based on people’s experiences .....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Mrchiller said:


> That’s a very generic statement based on very little fact or stats. Every women is different, every marriage is different and every situation is different. All I’m asking for in this forum is advice based on people’s experiences .....


This depends on a number of factors and a lot depends on what options are available to her. 

A huge factor of how much crap a woman will put up with depends on if there are young children and what means she has available to house and feed them. 

If a woman does not have any nearby family and support and she is financially dependent on the H and she is fat and not able to get a better man that will support the kids, she will put up with a whole lotta crap and will be more inclined to give 2nd and 3rd and 27th chances. 

Conversely, if she has her own livable income, benefits and insurance and has lots of friend/family support and she is fit and good looking enough that men of higher income and status than her H would have her - then “buh bye.” And she won’t look back. 

So it depends on where on the line your wife falls on that spectrum.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Mrchiller said:


> That’s a very generic statement based on very little fact or stats. Every women is different, every marriage is different and every situation is different. All I’m asking for in this forum is advice based on people’s experiences .....


It is an almost 100% correct statement, proven by experience of thousands of people over lots of years,

It has been proven to be true thousands of times. Sorry but that is true. 

I am sorry you don't want to here it but there it is. 

Sounds like you were told to get help with your illness a long time before you did. I will bet that your wife begged you to get help for years until you did. 

But you have it all under control now.... Good luck with that...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Mrchiller said:


> That’s a very generic statement based on very little fact or stats. Every women is different, every marriage is different and every situation is different. All I’m asking for in this forum is advice based on people’s experiences .....


No, it’s not. Women give a lot of chances, try to talk, ask for change, beg for years. Once they stop asking that means they are emotionally withdrawing. The whole process takes years, so it really hard to reverse it


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Yes she tried talking about the pill and it's effect early on. How did you respond? Did you encourage her to change or stop the pill or just oh that would be inconvenient for you.

While I encourage you to try to save your marriage because that is a good thing to do with long term relationships and you are right with her initiating MC it shows she is willing to try or at least wants to postpone divorce. Please take their observation to heart. Many women try for so many years to communicate and then eventually stop because it doesn't do any good, but the whole time resentment is building. Once that resentment reaches a certain level they are done. They may not leave at that point because women are more practical about children and finances. But with lots of resentment it can be very hard to every go back to a healthy marriage and love. There are ways to try to rebuild the relationship but just know it isn't going to be as easy as a reset and it won't be fast and in the end it may not work. 

Is her only resentment related to sex? Or does she have additional issues?


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes she tried talking about the pill and it's effect early on. How did you respond? Did you encourage her to change or stop the pill or just oh that would be inconvenient for you.
> 
> While I encourage you to try to save your marriage because that is a good thing to do with long term relationships and you are right with her initiating MC it shows she is willing to try or at least wants to postpone divorce. Please take their observation to heart. Many women try for so many years to communicate and then eventually stop because it doesn't do any good, but the whole time resentment is building. Once that resentment reaches a certain level they are done. They may not leave at that point because women are more practical about children and finances. But with lots of resentment it can be very hard to every go back to a healthy marriage and love. There are ways to try to rebuild the relationship but just know it isn't going to be as easy as a reset and it won't be fast and in the end it may not work.
> 
> Is her only resentment related to sex? Or does she have additional issues?


When she told me early on in the marriage she didn’t like the pill, I encouraged her to stop and she did and I used condoms instead.
Her resentment is all around sex and my attitude to it ie expecting it. She’s said many times I am an amazing loving husband and father which has probably kept the marriage alive. I just was a monster in terms of expectations around sex. Today I start my 121 counselling to understand why I was like that and have ordered a variety of books recommended from people on this forum. I think if there is a 0.0001% chance to salvage the marriage and rebuild her trust, I’ll go for it. If we end up divorced, at least I know I tried but ultimately I was responsible for the divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrchiller said:


> Good point. I don’t have a detailed plan as yet other than be the person I am that I know my wife loves ie funny, not needy, easy going, chilled with the kids. I think corona madness has meant we have been literally together with 3 boys 24/7 for 5 months and I think it’s healthier to spend some valuable time apart. So I plan to travel for work. I also am continuing my self well being, exercising well, eating well and looking after myself. Any other guidance?


I see that a lot of people here are suggesting that there is no way to fix your marriage and also that perhaps she is cheating. That's very common here because we get a lot of people posting who are in very broken situations. I don't get that feeling from what you have told us. I think your situation is completely fixable as I've seen it happen many times.

Can you and your wife rebuild your marriage into a passionate, loving one? Sure, if both of you work on it. There are two books that have helped couples turn their marriage around: *Love Busters: Protect Your Marriage by Replacing Love-Busting Patterns with Love-Building Habits *and *His Needs, Her Needs: Building a Marriage That Lasts*. They set out a plan that will guide you through this. Read them in the order posted. The idea is that you have to identify and stop the "love busters" before the two of you can start meeting each others needs. My suggestion is that you read the books first and do the work that they suggest. That way you will learn a new approach and language to use when talking to your wife. Then, ask your wife to read them with you and the two of you work through the books together.

One of the main points of the _*His Needs, Her Needs*_ book is that you two have to spend a lot of quality time together, just the two of you. It suggests a minimum of 15 hours a week if your marriage is in good shape. If you have a lot to work on, you two should be spending a lot more time than that together. Distance does not make the heart grow fonder.

With that said, your idea of traveling for work is going to sabotage any recovery. If you travel for work, now you are dumping all responsibility for home life and child care on your wife. Does your wife have a job or is she a fulltime staty at home mom (SAHM)?

How can you fix a relationship if you are not around to fix it? In the same light, separation is a bad idea. Even a few months separation. Most end in divorce. They tend to be stepping stones to make divorce easier.

If you feel that the two of you need some personal time since you have been together 24/7 for a few months, then try something like you go out every day or two to work out, ride a bike, walk, or whatever you enjoy. Find places to do it that rejuvenate you. For example here were I live, I'd go walk along the path down by the river, in the woods. Then you can keep an eye on the kids while your wife goes and does something that she wants for a hour or so.

What sorts of things do you and your wife do together, just the two of you? How often do you do these things?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I have been in your position, OP. I believe it's too late. Your wife has detached and there is no way back. When my wife had problems, many years ago, I was selfish and only paid attention to my needs, without supporting her (even if I didn't know what was going on). Over 10 years later, and we are separating, because my wife doesn't trust me anymore, even if she can see I have changed. And I have. She can't forget and undo the past. I regret what I have done, but it's one of those things. We put the kids first and we forgot to be a couple. We dealt with the situation on the basis of our flaws. We failed. Our marriage is over and I didn't even suspect it... not until a few months ago. Men can be blind.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> I see that a lot of people here are suggesting that there is no way to fix your marriage and also that perhaps she is cheating. That's very common here because we get a lot of people posting who are in very broken situations. I don't get that feeling from what you have told us. I think your situation is completely fixable as I've seen it happen many times.
> 
> Can you and your wife rebuild your marriage into a passionate, loving one? Sure, if both of you work on it. There are two books that have helped couples turn their marriage around: *Love Busters: Protect Your Marriage by Replacing Love-Busting Patterns with Love-Building Habits *and *His Needs, Her Needs: Building a Marriage That Lasts*. They set out a plan that will guide you through this. Read them in the order posted. The idea is that you have to identify and stop the "love busters" before the two of you can start meeting each others needs. My suggestion is that you read the books first and do the work that they suggest. That way you will learn a new approach and language to use when talking to your wife. Then, ask your wife to read them with you and the two of you work through the books together.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your positive outlook. I’ve bought those books and waiting for them to arrive.
My wife is a SAHM. We do give each other space, she works out in the park for a few hours a day and I go for a bike ride for an hour later.
I agree with you on the separation point and on hindsight, it’s not something both of us want.
I like your idea about time together - it’s hard if I’m to be honest with 3 boys but there are moments where we spend time together and it’s fun. By travelling for work 2-3 days a week, I think it will give us the space we need as we’ve been in a corona lockdown madness the last 5 months.
Thanks again for your recommendations and positivity....


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

I wanted to close this loop to say with sadness, my wife and I are getting divorced. Those that said she’s switched off and it’s too late were right. 
I wish everyone good health and happiness and thank those for their time to give me advice.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mrchiller said:


> I wanted to close this loop to say with sadness, my wife and I are getting divorced. Those that said she’s switched off and it’s too late were right.
> I wish everyone good health and happiness and thank those for their time to give me advice.


I'm sorry to hear that. It's hard to accept.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Mrchiller said:


> I wanted to close this loop to say with sadness, my wife and I are getting divorced. Those that said she’s switched off and it’s too late were right.
> I wish everyone good health and happiness and thank those for their time to give me advice.


Hello,

Something to consider for your next relationship that I didn't see mentioned here is how her upbringing was. Were her parents attentive and nurturing? Did they work hard to provide? Any abuse issues?

The truth is some women use marriage to escape a bad family situation and gain security. A good counselor once told me (regarding my own marriage) that when people do not have safe and secure childhoods, relationship choices are based too much on what a partner can provide for you and not enough on love and compatibility. That doesn't mean your partner isn't attracted to you, but it does mean that attraction is not enough to be regularly generous and push through the ups and downs of marriage.

And not surprisingly, we had a terrible sex life. She married a friend ad provider (and co-parent), not a lover. Sex was always an issue; once a month was fine for her and if she missed a month no big deal. She'd get her fill of hanging out then shift her attention away from me, always had me getting or doing something for her but never putting the same effort back, always increased her expectations while trying to knock mine down, mate-guarded me, etc.

Only you know if this resonates. IMO her marrying you is in itself a huge red flag. A 12-year gap is reasonable when you're in your 40s or maybe your 30s. It's HUGE when at 19; most people that age are not looking for life partners; they are looking to being adults and living life. If they are partnering up, it's to someone fairly close in age.

The contributors to your thread are correct - you cannot just expect sex to happen regardless of what's going of with a lady. However, you CAN expect that in the course of ordinary life that the bias will be towards having regular sex, not against it. If you're always swimming upstream and looking at it from "why have sex" instead of "why not have sex", then something's wrong.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

DTO said:


> Hello,
> 
> Something to consider for your next relationship that I didn't see mentioned here is how her upbringing was. Were her parents attentive and nurturing? Did they work hard to provide? Any abuse issues?
> 
> ...


Just another revelation. My wife admitted to me 5 days ago that she’s been having an affair for 2 years. Finding it hard to absorb and having therapy to deal with. She has said she wants to give our marriage another try ....


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Mrchiller said:


> Just another revelation. My wife admitted to me 5 days ago that she’s been having an affair for 2 years. Finding it hard to absorb and having therapy to deal with. She has said she wants to give our marriage another try ....


Well, do you?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Sorry the truth is turning out to be so harsh. I hope you continue with the individual counseling and find support here and closer to home. Easy to say, but people get through this and eventually thrive.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Mrchiller said:


> She has said she wants to give our marriage another try ....


Doesn't really matter what she wants. What do you want? And it's okay not to know the answer to that right now. She has a lot of work to do before you should even consider reconciliation.


Mrchiller said:


> 4-5 years ago she got a one year period of exceptionally high libido during my depression. Almost a role reversal. At this point she made hurtful comments that she saw me as a sibling and wanted to explore sex with other men.


I have doubts that your wife started her affair two years ago. Based on the above it seems like she started cheating 4-5 years ago. Cheaters always downplay what they did. The number they give you at first is nearly always wrong, then they trickle out the truth.



Mrchiller said:


> We’ve had 2 sets of different marriage therapy counselling the last 2 years. I have seen my wrongs and feel totally embarrassed for the lack of respect I have given her these years.


So while you were paying for and going through MC, she was sleeping with another man (men?). Nice. She wanted to make herself feel better by suggesting counseling but clearly had no intention of giving it a real shot. I wouldn't be feeling so bad about your lack of respect when hers was worse.


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## Nailhead (Sep 21, 2020)

Mrchiller said:


> Just another revelation. My wife admitted to me 5 days ago that she’s been having an affair for 2 years. Finding it hard to absorb and having therapy to deal with. She has said she wants to give our marriage another try ....


Sheesh. What do you want? Why is your WW giving the marriage another try? Plan A went sour. Plan B(you) is a better prospect?


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Mrchiller said:


> Just another revelation. My wife admitted to me 5 days ago that she’s been having an affair for 2 years. Finding it hard to absorb and having therapy to deal with.


My first impression reading this one was that she was f'ing another man. And when they say I think I'd like to F another man...chances are it's already happening. 

So sad. 



Mrchiller said:


> She has said she wants to give our marriage another try ....


Why? 

Did Plan A dump her? Who is he?

MC, a 2+ year affair is a pretty hard pill to swallow and this may not be her only affair. She has basically had a second husband that she was sharing the goodies with, all while you were doing the "pick me dance" and bouncing along to her puppet strings. Such disrespect.

Are you sure that the kids are yours? I would DNA test them. Because she has likely been doing this much longer than she is telling you.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Her family have disowned her practically and I fear she’s scared of losing the security of a home, decent lifestyle and kids not being traumatised and doesn’t love me. I’m going to be honest I’m 99.99% sure I’m out. I can’t look her in the eye without seeing this guy on top of her - her personal trainer might I add who came to our house. I am just heart broken. I am also such an idiot for trusting her and for the last 2 years believing there was something wrong with me. Really feel sick.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Why did her family practically disown her?

Smart, thoughtful people get fooled by lies. Learn what you can from that part of this experience, but no point in beating yourself up about it. Treat yourself with the kindness you’d treat a son or daughter in similar shoes.


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## midatlanticdad (Jul 24, 2018)

Mrchiller said:


> Her family have disowned her practically and I fear she’s scared of losing the security of a home, decent lifestyle and kids not being traumatised and doesn’t love me. I’m going to be honest I’m 99.99% sure I’m out. I can’t look her in the eye without seeing this guy on top of her - her personal trainer might I add who came to our house. I am just heart broken. I am also such an idiot for trusting her and for the last 2 years believing there was something wrong with me. Really feel sick.


sorry that’s awful 

there is no way you should reconcile 

clearly she doesn’t care about you as a person let alone husband 

even though you are heartbroken this relationship no longer can be built on the foundation of trust respect and love. 

you should consider individual counseling and move on


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

midatlanticdad said:


> sorry that’s awful
> 
> there is no way you should reconcile
> 
> ...


We are having individual counselling. And I am taking time out to let things sink. My priority are my three young boys.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

How did you find out about the affair? Did she tell you? Or did she get caught?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mrchiller said:


> Her family have disowned her practically and I fear she’s scared of losing the security of a home, decent lifestyle and kids not being traumatised and doesn’t love me. I’m going to be honest I’m 99.99% sure I’m out. I can’t look her in the eye without seeing this guy on top of her - her personal trainer might I add who came to our house. I am just heart broken. I am also such an idiot for trusting her and for the last 2 years believing there was something wrong with me. Really feel sick.


I figured. Wanting to have sex with others...it started around then. On phone 5 hrs day, LOVE YOU BUT NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU. Working out alone. I was thinking it is someone at tge gym. EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!

The affair will cause her to look more critical at your past lives. The stuff she was telling you she resented was more likely exaggerated because she was in love with someone else.
My sister had affair on her hubby for 2.5 yrs. She had the audacity to arrange an accidental meetup between him and his daughter and my family during an outing to a waterpark. He was a 'coworker', fancy meeting you here. Lets just say im not as close to my sister as before, neither are my kids.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> How did you find out about the affair? Did she tell you? Or did she get caught?


She told me. She said the guilt was killing for 2.5 years


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

PieceOfSky said:


> Why did her family practically disown her?
> 
> Smart, thoughtful people get fooled by lies. Learn what you can from that part of this experience, but no point in beating yourself up about it. Treat yourself with the kindness you’d treat a son or daughter in similar shoes.


They are ashamed that she cheated and lied to me and them for 2.5 years. And the 3 boys have suffered not really have a mum who gives them their attention. She also made my feel like a weak, pathetic loser for 2 years


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mrchiller said:


> She told me. *She said the guilt was killing for 2.5 years*


She has an incredibly strong constitution. (snicker) It only got the better of her after she was dumped.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> She has an incredibly strong constitution. (snicker) It only got the better of her after she was dumped.


No she wasn’t dumped. He apparently loves her and they were on and off 9 or so times in 2.5 years. She cut ties with him. I’m just still in shock


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I’m not saying you should forgive her, or divorce her. That decision is up to you.

But maybe you guys finally have an “equal” playing field where the relationship can actually work. You did a lot if ****ty things for many years. And it was hard for her to get past it. Then she did a super ****ty thing for a couple years. And it’s hard for you to get past. But maybe, you both did enough bad things to each other, that you actually can get past it together, and hopefully stronger. 

You know your wife’s nature we don’t.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I’m not saying you should forgive her, or divorce her. That decision is up to you.
> 
> But maybe you guys finally have an “equal” playing field where the relationship can actually work. You did a lot if ****ty things for many years. And it was hard for her to get past it. Then she did a super ****ty thing for a couple years. And it’s hard for you to get past. But maybe, you both did enough bad things to each other, that you actually can get past it together, and hopefully stronger.
> 
> You know your wife’s nature we don’t.


 that is a really valuable perspective, thank you. I’m still absorbing what’s just happened as it’s been 8 days and the easy option would be to get a divorce. The hard option would be seeing if I can forgive, if we can both change, find love again and give our 3 boys our attention and love. That’s two extreme choices and at the moment I need time and counselling.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Mrchiller said:


> that is a really valuable perspective, thank you. I’m still absorbing what’s just happened as it’s been 8 days and the easy option would be to get a divorce. The hard option would be seeing if I can forgive, if we can both change, find love again and give our 3 boys our attention and love. That’s two extreme choices and at the moment I need time and counselling.


Or you can divorce with split strongly in your favor and try to start again from divorce if you can stomach it. That way if it does not work yall are already divorced. But she has lied, decieved and been screwing anothet man for 2.5 yrs! That is where all the sex has been going, he has been getting it. She must have not been too guilty. It has been going on over 2 yrs.


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## Mrswhy (Oct 4, 2020)

.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Well, if you've been to two sets of marriages counsellors in the last two years, yet she has been having an affair for 2.5 years, that tells you why it didn't help. She wasn't being honest at all during the sessions. I'd wager it became a "pile on Mrchiller" session. Furthermore, with her loyalty now directed to her illicit lover, I'd also wager she magnified or even fabricated a false narrative during those sessions about how bad you were, in order to justify her cheating in her own mind.


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## Mrchiller (Aug 13, 2020)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, if you've been to two sets of marriages counsellors in the last two years, yet she has been having an affair for 2.5 years, that tells you why it didn't help. She wasn't being honest at all during the sessions. I'd wager it became a "pile on Mrchiller" session. Furthermore, with her loyalty now directed to her illicit lover, I'd also wager she magnified or even fabricated a false narrative during those sessions about how bad you were, in order to justify her cheating in her own mind.


Yes spot on. She did that to make her feel the victim. She admits all this.


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