# First Post



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Hello, everyone. I'm here and also registered at SurvivingInfidelity.com because I recently found out my wife of 15 years had a months-long affair with another man, first online and then a real, physical affair starting in October when she went overseas to see him. I found out in December, a few days before Christmas. She had told me he was just a friend who went to the same middle school she did, and I believed in her and trusted her so much that even though in hindsight there were some huge, flaming red flags, at the time I rationalized them away whenever I saw them. And the thing that blows my mind the most is that she was always the jealous one. She was the one who was always accusing me of flirting with other women, of looking at them and checking them out, of wanting to walk out on her at any moment, of wanting to screw practically anything that moves, of being the sicko and the perv in the relationship.

It has been the most heartbreaking, confusing, and stressful thing I have ever been through. And with a major complicating factor that I don't know if very many people here have had to deal with, that when she went overseas she left me alone to care for the niece of the guy she had an affair with, who was living with us and dependent on us at least for shelter and transportation to school and work.

I stumbled on this forum and the other website looking for advice because I never knew what to do or how to handle it. I suppose I will post my sob story later tonight, or at least as much of it as I feel comfortable writing.

I don't know what to do, whether to leave her or stay with her. I am afraid of both options. I am hoping to just die at some point. Thanks for reading.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Time to get mad. Find your balls. You are a man and will not tolerate this. You are divorcing her. You don't want her back.

How the hell did you end up caring for the OM's niece? We need to hear this. 

Start by reading No More Mr Nice Guy. Free download here: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*What NOT to Do*

As someone who recently found out about his wife's affair, if there is anyone reading this forum who is considering getting married, I can tell you what not to do to help ensure long-term success in your marriage: *Do NOT marry somebody who you know is just settling for you because they couldn't get the one they really wanted.* I knew this was happening but I rationalized it away. I made this mistake 15 years ago because I have never been the type of guy who could just have any woman he wants any time (those kinds of guys are out there, including my wife's eventual OM, and I don't know how they do it) and I was afraid of being alone for the rest of my life. But ever since, I have been nothing but a huge disappointment to my wife, who before we were married would have dumped me in a flash had the guy she had been in love with for years been able to tell her he loved her. Now that I have found out about the affair (the OM is not the same guy she was in love with 15 years ago) she is acting all remorseful and denying that she was ever disappointed in me, but I am not letting her revise history. She was disappointed in just about every aspect of my life and personality. I will never be as attractive physically as her first love or the OM, and I'll never have the personalities they had that appealed to her so much. She was even disappointed in my sleep apnea. I'll never forget how her upper lip curled in disgust when she looked at me and reminded me of my sleep apnea.

So don't ruin your life with somebody like this. If you know for a fact your prospective marriage partner is with you because they couldn't get the one they really wanted, then RUN FOR THE HILLS. Have the confidence that you will find somebody who loves you for you - and spare yourself years upon years of misery and heartbreak.


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## Ol'Pal (Aug 24, 2015)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Simplify it even more, Dont get married.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Okay...first off...you are not a disappointment. 

You have talents and strengths and lots of good qualities or else she would not have married you. But yes, some women, in fact many, choose men who are not their ideal. She may have even had the same motivation to marry you as you did her. She probably felt she had nothing to offer men so she took the first guy since her ex boyfriend/OM who showed interest in her. 

Yeah, you got used, but not because of what you lacked. You brought something worthwhile to the table and she decided to marry you. 

So tell us your story! Tell us about you, how you met your wife, how long you were married and how you discovered her affair. I'm also going to flag this for the mods and ask them to move it over to Coping With Infidelity. You could use the TAM army. 

Oh, and I have had sleep apnea. Understand that both beautiful people and not-so-beautiful people get apnea. It is a very common and very dangerous disorder. Are you overweight? If so you can fix that, and that will most likely solve your apnea also.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Ghost Rider said:


> I don't know what to do, whether to leave her or stay with her. I am afraid of both options. I am hoping to just die at some point. Thanks for reading.


It takes time to get to the realization that leaving is the better option. As long as you are with her, this will never stop eating at you. After the shock wears off, followed by anxiety attacks, acute sadness you will likely have long term depression. Eventually you'll likely become disgusted at yourself for not leaving. I once chose reconciliation with a girlfriend over something that happened early in our relationship. Even though she has been a nice, stable, and trustworthy wife for a few years, those thoughts about being settled for still are always there. Like I said, this was when we were dating. Your situation happened after marriage, which magnifies the amount of misery you'll continue to go through if you stay. 

There are a very few exceptions in which the cheating spouse genuinely regrets their actions and will willingly do whatever it takes to make things relatively better. What has your wife's attitude been like for the past 2 1/2 months?


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ol'Pal said:


> Simplify it even more, Dont get married.


What can I say? It's not like I have a good counter-argument, at this point.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Okay...first off...you are not a disappointment.
> 
> You have talents and strengths and lots of good qualities or else she would not have married you. But yes, some women, in fact many, choose men who are not their ideal. She may have even had the same motivation to marry you as you did her. She probably felt she had nothing to offer men so she took the first guy since her ex boyfriend/OM who showed interest in her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your nice words, Bandit. I think what I offered was mainly a good salary and U.S. citizenship, as she was an international student when we met in college, so I could give her a good, comfortable life, even though I would never be the kind of guy she really wanted. Even before marriage she would fight with me over stupid things and threaten to leave me, and I would cling to her and try to keep her from leaving. It's not a healthy dynamic for a relationship. She learned early on that she could deal with me in this way any time she wanted.

Eventually I will post my story but I may wait until I have 30 posts so I can post in the private area of the forum. There will be some things I would not want her to see if she were ever to surf this site. But I can't really tell my story without them.

I don't think I'm overweight even though I have gained 20 pounds or so over the last several years. I think I was underweight back then. My sleep apnea may be genetic. My dad used to snore like a freight train. He may have had it and was never diagnosed.

Thanks again for your encouraging words. I could really use them.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Thank you for your nice words, Bandit. I think what I offered was mainly* a good salary and U.S. citizenship.... *


Ah haaaaaaaa!

Where is she from? What country do you live in?


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Ah haaaaaaaa!
> 
> Where is she from? What country do you live in?


We are in the United States. She is Indian. I am the same ethnicity, but born and raised here.

She was never shy about telling anybody and everybody in our families and circle of friends.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Sleep apnea is very dangerous. I had a close childhood friend, same age as myself, die in his sleep about six or seven years ago. His wife woke up next to him one morning and he was cold dead. Just like that. Left behind her and two kids. 

Have you been to a sleep lab and have yourself tested? A CPAP machine will help you sleep better, and you won't have so many episodes where you stop breathing. I used a C-PAP for a couple of years. I also lost a lot of weight and that cured it for me.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> We are in the United States. She is Indian. I am the same ethnicity, but born and raised here.
> 
> She was never shy about telling anybody and everybody in our families and circle of friends.


You know what I'm about to tell you don't you? :|


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Sleep apnea is very dangerous. I had a close childhood friend, same age as myself, die in his sleep about six or seven years ago. His wife woke up next to him one morning and he was cold dead. Just like that. Left behind her and two kids.
> 
> Have you been to a sleep lab and have yourself tested? A CPAP machine will help you sleep better, and you won't have so many episodes where you stop breathing. I used a C-PAP for a couple of years. I also lost a lot of weight and that cured it for me.


Yes, I have been tested and do have the machine. It certainly does help. I am sorry for the loss of your childhood friend.

As I said in my first post in the off-topic area, my wife was always the jealous one. So when I think of my sleep test, I remember how a female technician put the probes and sensors on me and how my wife was so jealous and thought I had the hots for the technician...and then several months later she was the one who had an affair (smh).


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> You know what I'm about to tell you don't you? :|


No?


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

GuyInColorado said:


> Time to get mad. Find your balls. You are a man and will not tolerate this. You are divorcing her. You don't want her back.
> 
> How the hell did you end up caring for the OM's niece? We need to hear this.
> 
> Start by reading No More Mr Nice Guy. Free download here: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


Thanks, Guy in Colorado, I appreciate your encouraging words. I will probably wait until I can tell the story in the private forum, after I get to 30 posts. There will probably be some details that I will not want her to see if she ever happens to surf this site. I will definitely check out the pdf file.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> We are in the United States. She is Indian. I am the same ethnicity, but born and raised here.
> 
> *She was never shy about telling anybody and everybody in our families and circle of friends.*


Wait, what?! What was she never shy of telling?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> No?


Well...you and her come from a culture that is a bit more practical and pragmatic when it comes to marriage. As I understand it, Indians do not always marry for love. Many old school Indian marriages are still arranged. 

If I were a betting man, I would venture to say that you were a safe bet. She was rejected by the man she really loved. She came here, met you and you seemed safe and dependable and you adored her. You had citizenship and a steady income and prospects. (Stop me if I'm getting off track) I think she married you for the green card. I really do. 

So, here she has this good man who worships her, is willing to offer her stability and security...but she doesn't really love him the way he loves her. She probably gave it the good old college try for a 15 years..tried to be a good and proper wife to you...but she couldn't sustain the act. And when the opportunity presented itself to go after a man who she thought could give her what she was lacking, she took it. 

Now she knows she's in trouble. She's about to lose her nest-egg and her stability. She's not afraid of losing you, just the life you provided her. 

Look just because she cheated with another man, does not mean that you are an unattractive person. There are a lot of very good looking people on TAM here...many...who are very good looking, successful, outgoing and well-liked...and they still got cheated on. Being attractive and "successful" does not make you immune to being jilted. Your wife cheated on you because she is weak, broken and lacks integrity. It has nothing to do with you or your weight or your apnea. If your WW was not happy, she could have done the right thing and divorced you without humiliating you. So do not blame yourself. Blame her. She is the deficient one.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> It takes time to get to the realization that leaving is the better option. As long as you are with her, this will never stop eating at you. After the shock wears off, followed by anxiety attacks, acute sadness you will likely have long term depression. Eventually you'll likely become disgusted at yourself for not leaving. I once chose reconciliation with a girlfriend over something that happened early in our relationship. Even though she has been a nice, stable, and trustworthy wife for a few years, those thoughts about being settled for still are always there. Like I said, this was when we were dating. Your situation happened after marriage, which magnifies the amount of misery you'll continue to go through if you stay.
> 
> There are a very few exceptions in which the cheating spouse genuinely regrets their actions and will willingly do whatever it takes to make things relatively better. What has your wife's attitude been like for the past 2 1/2 months?


Thanks, Steve, I have had all of those things: shock, anxiety attacks (with nausea and shortness of breath), sadness, and depression. I cannot focus or concentrate on work at all. Ever since I found out, she has been playing the role of remorseful spouse but I am not sure how sincere it is. I don't know if I can trust anything about her anymore. This has made me question everything I thought I knew about her. I have re-evaluated all of her past jealousy and abusive behavior toward me in light of this affair. She has been asking my forgiveness and telling me she is no longer in contact with her OM, even though they could still communicate without me knowing. And even if she is truly not in contact with him, I don't know if that really matters at this point.

When I found out, she says she was going to tell me when she came back home, but I don't know if that's true, or for how long she would have waited. I question that because she went back home in India in 2011, and back then a male friend from her middle school (not the OM or the guy she was originally in love with before we were married) got her drunk and took her to a hotel room and tried to have sex with her. She claimed that she refused and this guy always had a thing for her but she never reciprocated. But she didn't tell me about this incident until 2016 when she was having the online phase of her affair with her OM. And even then, I don't know what motivated her to tell me. And I don't know why she waited so long to tell me if she really was innocent. I believed her when she told me that even though she was completely drunk, she didn't have sex with the guy from her middle school in 2011. But I know now that it was entirely possible and I wonder if she was honest with me about that part of it. So now that I think of it, maybe she has had two affairs by now. I will have to ask her when practical.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



EunuchMonk said:


> Wait, what?! What was she never shy of telling?


I'm sorry if I was not clear. In the above posts, bandit said I must have had something to offer her, and I told bandit that she saw that I had a good salary and that she could become a U.S. citizen through marriage to me. And she was never shy about telling family and friends that those were important reasons for her to marry me.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Well...you and her come from a culture that is a bit more practical and pragmatic when it comes to marriage. As I understand it, Indians do not always marry for love. Many old school Indian marriages are still arranged.
> 
> If I were a betting man, I would venture to say that you were a safe bet. She was rejected by the man she really loved. She came here, met you and you seemed safe and dependable and you adored her. You had citizenship and a steady income and prospects. (Stop me if I'm getting off track) I think she married you for the green card. I really do.
> 
> ...


You are correct about most if not all of that. You are not off-track at all. But I still have years of experience to show me that women never really liked me or cared for me. Although for 15 years I tried to rationalize it away, my wife was just another in a long line. I've given up now. I really don't care. But I suppose that's why I included the "unattractive" part.

Although I didn't know about the online affair in October, when my wife left the country I thought for sure she was leaving me for her OM. I was trying to brace myself for major devastation. I was expecting her to ask me for a divorce, and I prepared myself as best I could to let her go for her happiness. 

In many ways that would have been preferable to what is happening now, which is having the affair, both online and physically, and then trying to tug at my heart-strings and manipulate me to get back with me.

Yes, even though she denies it (I did accuse her of it), she knows very well that she had a good life with me, with practically unlimited freedom, but she took me for granted and is scared of losing it now. She freaked out when I told her that I had talked to our attorney about divorce.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> I'm sorry if I was not clear. In the above posts, bandit said I must have had something to offer her, and I told bandit that she saw that I had a good salary and that she could become a U.S. citizen through marriage to me. And she was never shy about telling family and friends that those were important reasons for her to marry me.












And you still married her after that? You weren't lying. You must have been really desperate at the time.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



EunuchMonk said:


> And you still married her after that? You weren't lying. You must have been really desperate at the time.


Well, she was a little more subtle about it, at least until after marriage. But I was stupid in love, too, and thought whatever problems we had were isolated and/or could be fixed.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

It appears that you found out about the affair via other means, she didn't confess.

That's bad. 

If there's a confession, then there's a chance at reconciliation because there's guilt and remorse. But I'd like to think if it was me I'd leave anyway because there's probably nothing more painful than having to look at the woman you love and know she had some other guy inside of her while she was supposed to be committed to you. 

If there's no confession, she'd already have been planning her next trip to see him. Nothing to save here.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Strange, I know a couple hundred Indians easily, can recall no affairs and only one divorce... Not very common I'm afraid.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

browser said:


> It appears that you found out about the affair via other means, she didn't confess.
> 
> That's bad.
> 
> ...


You are correct; I found out by other means, although she confessed right away when I asked her if there was anything between her and OM besides just friendship. She confessed to sleeping with him. But I found out because one morning in December, she video-chatted me in FB and she was acting really funny, just talking weird and looking at me weird. So I checked her FB messenger because I had the password. I thought it might be a genuine problem of some sort; the last thing I expected to find out about was an affair, but there it was: explicit messages from the OM such as "are you on your period?" and "you're not letting me come on you", and an arrangement to meet in a hotel room, which I think is where she had just come from when she video-chatted me in that weird way. It was guilt that gave her away. She only confessed when caught. And as I explained in another thread, I am now wondering if she didn't have a second affair back in 2011.

And yes, the part of your post that I put in bold is extremely difficult for me to deal with. I just cannot fathom the fact that another man had his penis in my wife's vagina. I can't deal with it.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Ghost Rider said:


> there it was: explicit messages from the OM such as "you're not letting me come on you"


How could a man possibly take back his wife after reading something like that?

All the remorse in the world can't erase that picture.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

browser said:


> How could a man possibly take back his wife after reading something like that?
> 
> All the remorse in the world can't erase that picture.


You are correct. I told her that. I found out about it on December 22, 2016. I told her most guys would have sent her the divorce papers on December 23. And I can't believe they were stupid enough to use FB Messenger. Normally they were better at covering their tracks, because it had gone on for months.

I was committed to her. But if I were going to do this, at least I would have been smart enough to use Snapchat.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Looks aren't everything. You have to have game. If a man has confidence in himself, takes care of himself, and knows how to talk to a woman in a positive way that makes her feel good about herself without making himself look desperate or creepy, that is a form of "game" and he can attract women.

You are selling yourself very short. Yes, it may be true that you had trouble attracting women in the past, but that doesn't mean you are a hopeless case. Your wife cheated, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. It means there is something wrong with her.

If you can learn how to get your game on (and I don't mean learning how to be a cad) you can easily attract women. There are a lot of single women out there looking for good, solid, kind men who have their act together. It sounds like you are that kind of man. Many of these women are good, solid, kind women who have their acts together. I know some women like this who would answer a man who meets your description if he were to talk to her in an easy going, positive manner to get to know her, rather than try to prey on her. 

Believe me, the dating scene out there is brutal, but there are good people looking for a match. Your wife's attitudes and behaviors have got you down, but you don't have to stay in that mindset.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Ghost Rider said:


> You are correct. I told her that. I found out about it on December 22, 2016. I told her most guys would have sent her the divorce papers on December 23. And I can't believe they were stupid enough to use FB Messenger. Normally they were better at covering their tracks, because it had gone on for months.
> 
> I was committed to her. But if I were going to do this, at least I would have been smart enough to use Snapchat.


You have more than enough on your mind, you don't need to ruminate over how dumb they were because of how they communicated. Unless of course you can say "well I'm not sure if the affair is enough to leave her, but the fact that she's so freaking stupid just might be the icing on the cake".


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

So when's the divorce?


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



john117 said:


> Strange, I know a couple hundred Indians easily, can recall no affairs and only one divorce... Not very common I'm afraid.


You are correct, John, it is not common in Indian culture at all. The paradigm in Indian culture is that once you marry somebody, you are going to be with them for the rest of your life, period.

But my wife grew up in a household where adultery and cheating were an obsession on the part of her parents, especially her father. This is also a long and complicated story that I think was a contributing factor to the wreckage of our own marriage. Her mother allegedly cheated on her father when she (my then-future wife) was a child in her impressionable years. Her father fought with her mother about the same things every day, which is a theme that she repeated with me as an adult with her jealousy and paranoia about small things. Her father also emotionally abused her daughter (my future wife) in all his devastation over this alleged affair. I am certain this led to her being emotionally stunted, oversensitive to small things people do, and probably suffering from borderline personality disorder and/or depression for the rest of her life. And yes, she has always been obsessed with cheating and adultery and anything that has remotely to do with those things - not only always trying to catch me screwing around but also acting sometimes like a tryst here and there would appeal to her if she ever had the chance. So screwed up.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

How much is her want to reconcile based on fear of cultural repercussions rather than for you?

I would bet 99.9%.

When is she being served with divorce papers again?

Sorry you are here, brother.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ghost Rider said:


> Hello, everyone. I'm here and also registered at SurvivingInfidelity.com because I recently found out my wife of 15 years had a months-long affair with another man, first online and then a real, physical affair starting in October when she went overseas to see him. I found out in December, a few days before Christmas. She had told me he was just a friend who went to the same middle school she did, and I believed in her and trusted her so much that even though in hindsight there were some huge, flaming red flags, at the time I rationalized them away whenever I saw them. And the thing that blows my mind the most is that she was always the jealous one. She was the one who was always accusing me of flirting with other women, of looking at them and checking them out, of wanting to walk out on her at any moment, of wanting to screw practically anything that moves, of being the sicko and the perv in the relationship.
> 
> It has been the most heartbreaking, confusing, and stressful thing I have ever been through. And with a major complicating factor that I don't know if very many people here have had to deal with, that when she went overseas she left me alone to care for the niece of the guy she had an affair with, who was living with us and dependent on us at least for shelter and transportation to school and work.
> 
> ...


You are going to get very different advice here from a lot of us then you will from SI, Why would you want to be married to someone who could disrespect you so much? What kind of person will you be, the kind who is bullied and takes it, or the kind who stands up and punches back. Make no mistake your wife has bullied you. Honestly the fact that this total lack of respect could happen to you and you are undecided shows that you are passive. This has probably always been your MO. 

People who do the kind of horrendous stuff that your wife has done can smell out passive people. It works like a parasite and a host. Right now you are her host. You need to change your thinking and yourself or it doesn't matter you will just attract another like your wife. How about start with your disrespectful wife..

Are we to understand that you were supporting her affair partner and her? Are you still doing that? Honestly why would you ever want to spend your life with someone who could take advantage of you in such a terrible way. There is so much better out there. Being alone is better. Love and marriage are not worth your self respect or your honor. Marriage and love should not be more important then protecting yourself from abuse.

See a lawyer and divorce her. Treat her and her comfort with the same disregard she treated you with.

Your wife is no prize. Don't treat winning her back like winning the lottery. Seriously even if she is sorry and loves you what is it worth. YOU CAN DO BETTER. Don't settle for a plan B life.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Are you American born? How did you meet your wife?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Ghost, culture and religion aside, as man who looks at himself everyday, there comes a point where you have ask yourself is it worth keeping this facade of a marriage going...because he is the problem...as long as she knows that you will not divorce here she does not have to stop what so ever there is no recourse, no penalty, there is nothing.

Short of her getting hit by a bus your screwed and not in a good way....you made a mistake in marrying her, don't make a mistake in continuing this marriage....find happiness either by yourself, or eventually in the arms of someone who truly cares. Because if that can happen, and you are stuck...then i certainly do a couple things....

1. remove all cellphones, computers out of the house
2. if she is not working than put her on a strict allowance
3. take away transportation 
4. make her home bound and give her real books to read about relationships
5. expose the OM

make her life as miserable as possible so she will leave....remember DO NOT REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR

bottom line...If love and kindness will not keep her from looking then be an biggest A-hole and make her life a living hell


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

I would agree. Don't talk to her about divorce. File, and let her try to talk you out of going through with it.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks, Steve, I have had all of those things: shock, anxiety attacks (with nausea and shortness of breath), sadness, and depression. I cannot focus or concentrate on work at all. Ever since I found out, she has been playing the role of remorseful spouse but I am not sure how sincere it is. I don't know if I can trust anything about her anymore. This has made me question everything I thought I knew about her.


Another common feeling that you might be having is that you are afraid to be too demanding because it might push your wife back to the other man. The whole thing is very difficult to go through. Many of us here all too well know not being able to sleep and not being able to eat and not being able to concentrate on work feels like. Eventually we become very desperate to have the pain end. That's the time we make big decisions that are regretted later. 

You need time to process this. If it's all too much for you right now, just survive and hold off making any decisions until you're ready. You can tell your wife that you need time to figure out what to do. Many of us make the mistake of being the one to try to make the relationship better. Your wife messed up very badly. It's up to her to try hard to repair the damage and keep your marriage together. 

Whatever you do, don't do something silly like sending her articles on how to have a happy relationship now. If she is remorseful, she will be doing that kind of research. And remember, the emotional pain will not always be so intense.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, not to pile on, but you really do need to grow a pair. This wasn't some sort of thing that just happened, this took planning and calculation and cunning. I would be willing to bet if you looked further back you would find a pattern. Especially after telling us how she was the jealous one, always accusing you of flirting. Typically people who are jealous, tend to be that way because they think every body else thinks the same as they do. Hence, the thinking goes, "I would (will) cheat, so you probably would to". You need to boot her out pronto. Then focus on yourself and do a 180. 

My counselor told me that many people continue the same type of behavior when things go south as they do when the marriage is seemingly solid. She played you then and she is playing you now. You allowed yourself to be played and you are allowing yourself to continue to be played.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Ghost Rider,

You wrote, *because I have never been the type of guy who could just have any woman he wants any time (those kinds of guys are out there, including my wife's eventual OM, and I don't know how they do it)*

It's easy,

* have no empathy for women
* complement women in ways that are manipulative.
* lie to them about everything to create an air of mystery
* exaggerate all your achievements in life, when you hear a story from someone else use it for yourself
* claim to be a humanitarian, child advocate, benefactor, etc.
* blame all your faults and failures on others especially ex'es, creates sympathy. 
* cry when she catches you cheating.
* borrow money from women, don't pay them back.

Sounds like the MAN you want to be I don't think so.

BTW if you aren't as good looking as the OM it gives you a tactical advantage there is a saying "never get in a fight with anyone uglier than you"

Tamat


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



CynthiaDe said:


> Looks aren't everything. You have to have game. If a man has confidence in himself, takes care of himself, and knows how to talk to a woman in a positive way that makes her feel good about herself without making himself look desperate or creepy, that is a form of "game" and he can attract women.
> 
> You are selling yourself very short. Yes, it may be true that you had trouble attracting women in the past, but that doesn't mean you are a hopeless case. Your wife cheated, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with you. It means there is something wrong with her.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your kind and encouraging words, Cynthia. Like I said, I just don't even care anymore. Maybe someday I will be ready. Certainly not now, though. As long as I shower and shave and keep my hair cut,when I look in the mirror, I don't think I'm so hideous, but who knows what women think. It doesn't even matter right now.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



GusPolinski said:


> So when's the divorce?


Time will tell, I guess.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Time will tell, I guess.


Are you waiting for her to divorce you?


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Are you American born? How did you meet your wife?


.

Yes, I am American-born but my parents came from India a few years before I was born. We met in college when we had the same major and same part-time job. That was in 1999, and we started dating in 2001. We didn't date for very long before getting married, only 8 months.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Lostinthought61 said:


> Ghost, culture and religion aside, as man who looks at himself everyday, there comes a point where you have ask yourself is it worth keeping this facade of a marriage going...because he is the problem...as long as she knows that you will not divorce here she does not have to stop what so ever there is no recourse, no penalty, there is nothing.
> 
> Short of her getting hit by a bus your screwed and not in a good way....you made a mistake in marrying her, don't make a mistake in continuing this marriage....find happiness either by yourself, or eventually in the arms of someone who truly cares. Because if that can happen, and you are stuck...then i certainly do a couple things....
> 
> ...


Thank you, Lostinthought, I will consider these as applicable. First she has to come home, which will be in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> I would agree. Don't talk to her about divorce. File, and let her try to talk you out of going through with it.


Not a bad idea.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



TAMAT said:


> Ghost Rider,
> 
> You wrote, *because I have never been the type of guy who could just have any woman he wants any time (those kinds of guys are out there, including my wife's eventual OM, and I don't know how they do it)*
> 
> ...


Thanks Tamat, yeah, I've never been that way.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



GusPolinski said:


> Are you waiting for her to divorce you?


She has to come home from overseas first, which will happen in a couple of weeks. Honestly, I'm not sure if I want D or R. I'm afraid of both. I will see how she acts toward me. I just want to be like roommates.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

browser said:


> You have more than enough on your mind, you don't need to ruminate over how dumb they were because of how they communicated. Unless of course you can say "well I'm not sure if the affair is enough to leave her, but the fact that she's so freaking stupid just might be the icing on the cake".


Thank you, browser; no, I don't ruminate over it. That was just a passing thought.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> How much is her want to reconcile based on fear of cultural repercussions rather than for you?
> 
> I would bet 99.9%.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Far Side Junky (by the way, I loved that cartoon, too). You are 100% correct. She is afraid of what her immediate family will think, and probably her extended family and friends, too. She thinks her family will ostracize her if they find out, and she may very well be correct. She thinks her parents will have heart attacks if they find out.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> She has to come home from overseas first, which will happen in a couple of weeks. Honestly, I'm not sure if I want D or R. I'm afraid of both. I will see how she acts toward me. I just want to be like roommates.


Bah.

File now.

Have her served at the airport.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

sokillme said:


> You are going to get very different advice here from a lot of us then you will from SI, Why would you want to be married to someone who could disrespect you so much? What kind of person will you be, the kind who is bullied and takes it, or the kind who stands up and punches back. Make no mistake your wife has bullied you. Honestly the fact that this total lack of respect could happen to you and you are undecided shows that you are passive. This has probably always been your MO.
> 
> People who do the kind of horrendous stuff that your wife has done can smell out passive people. It works like a parasite and a host. Right now you are her host. You need to change your thinking and yourself or it doesn't matter you will just attract another like your wife. How about start with your disrespectful wife..
> 
> ...


Thank you for your kind advice, sokillme. You are right; I've never been a very aggressive person and my wife took advantage of that throughout the years. I am still supporting her financially. I was never supporting her OM, at least not on purpose. I was (and we both were, before she left) supporting his niece, who came to live with us for a time while she went to college and worked part-time.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Steve1000 said:


> Another common feeling that you might be having is that you are afraid to be too demanding because it might push your wife back to the other man. The whole thing is very difficult to go through. Many of us here all too well know not being able to sleep and not being able to eat and not being able to concentrate on work feels like. Eventually we become very desperate to have the pain end. That's the time we make big decisions that are regretted later.
> 
> You need time to process this. If it's all too much for you right now, just survive and hold off making any decisions until you're ready. You can tell your wife that you need time to figure out what to do. Many of us make the mistake of being the one to try to make the relationship better. Your wife messed up very badly. It's up to her to try hard to repair the damage and keep your marriage together.
> 
> Whatever you do, don't do something silly like sending her articles on how to have a happy relationship now. If she is remorseful, she will be doing that kind of research. And remember, the emotional pain will not always be so intense.


Thanks Steve, I was afraid to be too demanding, but not for the reason you think. I will have to explain in the private thread when I have a chance to start it.

I do need time to process this, and I didn't want to make any decisions immediately, and I did tell her I needed time to myself, so I asked her to stay overseas with her family, and just tell them she wanted to spend time with them so they wouldn't be suspicious that maybe there was trouble in her marriage. She complied for a time but then she got impatient and forced the issue by buying a ticket home. She will be home in about 2 weeks. I hope when she is here that she will just leave me alone as much as I need it. 

I agree with you about whose burden it is to repair the relationship and I have not been trying to do so myself.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Ynot said:


> OP, not to pile on, but you really do need to grow a pair. This wasn't some sort of thing that just happened, this took planning and calculation and cunning. I would be willing to bet if you looked further back you would find a pattern. Especially after telling us how she was the jealous one, always accusing you of flirting. Typically people who are jealous, tend to be that way because they think every body else thinks the same as they do. Hence, the thinking goes, "I would (will) cheat, so you probably would to". You need to boot her out pronto. Then focus on yourself and do a 180.
> 
> My counselor told me that many people continue the same type of behavior when things go south as they do when the marriage is seemingly solid. She played you then and she is playing you now. You allowed yourself to be played and you are allowing yourself to continue to be played.


Thanks, Ynot, my counselor and lawyer both told me that this kind of projection is very common in their experience. I was surprised. You are probably correct about her attitude toward me. 

By the way, what is a 180? I've seen that expression used several times in browsing in this forum but I'm not sure what it means.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Ghost Rider said:


> Thank you for your kind advice, sokillme. You are right; I've never been a very aggressive person and my wife took advantage of that throughout the years. I am still supporting her financially. I was never supporting her OM, at least not on purpose. I was (and we both were, before she left) supporting his niece, who came to live with us for a time while she went to college and worked part-time.


Time to change this. Go cold as death to her and make plans to never see her again.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



GusPolinski said:


> Bah.
> 
> File now.
> 
> Have her served at the airport.


Intellectually, even though I may know you are correct, it's not that easy. I never imagined life without her. You don't just stop caring. You can't turn it off like a light switch. But I'm certainly not taking it off the table.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Intellectually, even though I may know you are correct, it's not that easy. I never imagined life without her. You don't just stop caring. You can't turn it off like a light switch. But I'm certainly not taking it off the table.


Sometimes it's like ripping off a bandaid.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Intellectually, even though I may know you are correct, it's not that easy. I never imagined life without her. You don't just stop caring. You can't turn it off like a light switch. But I'm certainly not taking it off the table.


Your heart will enslave you for as long as you let it.

STOP LETTING IT.

There's something that you're waiting for her to say ("I never loved you. I only used you.", etc) in the hope that you'll finally have what you need to pull the trigger on a divorce. And even though that's likely what's in her heart, she will NEVER say those words to you, because she knows that there's no coming back from the consequences that she'll face once she does.

So she'll lie, deny, and gaslight.

And every lie will both sooth and burn you.

Before long you won't be able to tell the difference between a bad lie and an absolute truth, but don't worry, because by then so much of your sanity will have been chipped away that you won't even care anymore.

You're the only one that can keep this from happening, and the process starts with divorce papers.

Final thought... is she with her lover now?


----------



## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

A couple of things:

1. NEVER EVER let someone define your value, merit, attractiveness, etc. She's just one woman that you fell in love with, but she is not THE AUTHOURITY on jack squat.

2. Learn to value yourself. She is NOT essential to your life, happiness, or self worth, even if right now you can't see it. Just because you value her does not mean that she is valuable to you, good for you, or for anyone.

3. (I use "couple" to describe several) While you cannot turn love off like a light switch, (A) you can take mental steps to detach and ultimately move on. Loving someone is not a bond that cannot be broken. (B) Once you detach, you find out that like a dimmer switch, love turns off. One day you just don't.

4. Being broke, fat, toothless, and having a stutter will not stop you from finding a woman who likes your broke, fat, toothless, stuttering self. I have seen objectively ugly people with folks who adore them. I once saw this woman who was not pretty by conventional standards and she was a huge and sweaty, fat fingered woman. (I notice hands). Her man was a stud. I mean muscular, good complexion, etc. All of these women were hitting on him. He passed. I watched him feed his woman chicken wings. Make out with her on the dance floor, and cop some uncomfortable to watch feels of her butt. She was his queen. I also know a guy who actually is missing teeth and does not look that great. His wife is very attractive. She absolutely loves him. She pursued him. 

chin up. Also, divorce this woman. At least file and keep moving forward. Loving her is like loving meth. It makes you feel awesome, but it destroys your body and soul.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



CynthiaDe said:


> Sometimes it's like ripping off a bandaid.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



GusPolinski said:


> Your heart will enslave you for as long as you let it.
> 
> STOP LETTING IT.
> 
> ...


You are probably right, Gus; these are the kinds of things I needed time to myself to figure out (among others). 

No, she is not currently with him. She claims to have had no contact with him for the past 2-1/2 months since I found out about the affair. I don't see any evidence of it in FB Messenger, which is where I found out about it in the first place. But that doesn't mean they aren't communicating in some other way. She may be telling the truth, but then again, I never thought she was capable of the affair to begin with. It's really hard to trust her anymore.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bigfoot said:


> A couple of things:
> 
> 1. NEVER EVER let someone define your value, merit, attractiveness, etc. She's just one woman that you fell in love with, but she is not THE AUTHOURITY on jack squat.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your kind words & encouragement, bigfoot. I could really use them these days.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> You are probably right, Gus; these are the kinds of things I needed time to myself to figure out (among others).
> 
> No, she is not currently with him. She claims to have had no contact with him for the past 2-1/2 months since I found out about the affair. I don't see any evidence of it in FB Messenger, which is where I found out about it in the first place. But that doesn't mean they aren't communicating in some other way. She may be telling the truth, but then again, I never thought she was capable of the affair to begin with. It's really hard to trust her anymore.


Do yourself a favor and assume that, if she's not with you, she's with him.

Either way, she's lying about NC.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Time to change this. Go cold as death to her and make plans to never see her again.


Intellectually, I know you are right. And I appreciate you encouraging me. In reality, it takes time.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



GusPolinski said:


> Do yourself a favor and assume that, if she's not with you, she's with him.
> 
> Either way, she's lying about NC.


She may be. They could be communicating in person, over the phone, using some other app such as Viber that I don't have access to, etc. God only knows at this point.


----------



## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Why would you want to be a room mate with someone that every time you saw them, your mind has mental images of them schlepping some other guy??? Women find confident men attractive.

Have her served divorce papers where she is at right now.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Is she back in India right now? Is he?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Ghost the reason we advocate filing now is because you can always call off the divorce later. This way you are ahead of the game, you have the advantage and she will have to play catch-up. Wait a few months down the road and discover she is not really remorseful or contrite, and you will be those many months behind and that much further away from getting her poison out of your life.


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> I have never been the type of guy who could just have any woman he wants any time (those kinds of guys are out there, including my wife's eventual OM, and I don't know how they do it) .


PFFT!

I have a buddy I went to college with.

Great guy. Probably my closest friend.

He's a great big, fat slob though. Just an enormous pig

In the 30 years I have known him, I have never seen him with a woman that wasn't a 10.
Not an 8. Not a 9. Not a 9.5.
But a 10.

He has confidence running off him like fine oil.
He lines them up and then knocks them down.

You need confidence. A lot.
You don't think you good looking?
Change your paradigm - get to the gym. Pump that iron. Get yourself some swole arms, wide spread lats, poping pecs and some banging washboard abs.
You'll get some serious confidence when you set your goal of getting ripped and achieving it.

What not to do - sit around waiting for your wife to do something.

1) lawyer- find out your rights
2) Get to a doctor - get STD exam
3) Start divorce
4) make sure you eat
5) Make sure you get plenty of water
6) Make sure you get plenty of sleep
7) read up and start the 180
8) Get an appointment for IC tomorrow- you have some issues to work out
9) Finally, I have no clue who originally posted this but they are a pure genius:

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks, Far Side Junky (by the way, I loved that cartoon, too). You are 100% correct. She is afraid of what her immediate family will think, and probably her extended family and friends, too. She thinks her family will ostracize her if they find out, and she may very well be correct. She thinks her parents will have heart attacks if they find out.


Ghostrider,

What you have found out is probably only the tip of the iceberg. You need to take action now. 
Do not make any decisions at the moment as you are not in the right place to do so.

I know culturally, you and your family may have a tendency to sweep this one under the rug and just suffer on. That would be a mistake. Expose her and her OM for what they are, let her family, your family and friends know about this. She blew up the marriage not you. She did this not you. Let her family grapple with the shame, it is not your burden to carrry, you married someone who wasn't what you thought she was, they sold you a dud basically.

Get a lawyer, draw up the papers
Ask lawyer for advice on financial support, etc
Go to therapy for yourself to deal with the emotional turmoil
Get out and about, go to the gym, join a club, etc do things for yourself

It is likely this is not the first time she has cheated. I hope you do not have kids? If not do not have kids with this woman, you can marry someone much better than her.
You souund like a nice solid guy, but go scorched earth on her, there is no other way.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You were her chump,to put it simply. 

You should familiarize yourself with Chump Lady. She has many good articles. 

https://www.chumplady.com


----------



## ZedZ (Feb 6, 2017)

Ghost Rider said:


> You are correct. I told her that. I found out about it on December 22, 2016. I told her most guys would have sent her the divorce papers on December 23. And I can't believe they were stupid enough to use FB Messenger. Normally they were better at covering their tracks, because it had gone on for months.
> 
> I was committed to her. But if I were going to do this, at least I would have been smart enough to use Snapchat.



I don't think I would be able to get past this part...


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@ghostrider, 

I am addressing you as someone who had an affair and successfully reconciled and rebuilt my marriage. My first advice to you would be that she is very likely to try to use the fact that "her family would have a heart attack if they found out" to guilt you or manipulate you into keeping her affair a secret. I want to remind you of something--the thing that would hurt and shock them is NOT you telling the truth, but rather the action that their family member committed! It is HER ADULTERY that would hurt people, not you telling them the real truth. If she had been faithful, you could tell them the truth and they would be happy! So it is HER ACTIONS that will hurt her family members. Remember that. 

Second, I would say that it sounds like you do not live in the United States, but rather overseas. I do not pretend to understand all of the various cultural and societal and religious and legal implications outside the USA (okay I know a little, but not enough to be truly wise). However, what I do know is that your situation will not be exactly the same as what we might do here in the U.S. and thus I will not advise you as if you lived here. 

That being said, it's been since December. If she were *truly repentant*, she has had 2 1/2 months to ACT differently and work on changing herself. I do not hear anywhere that you say she has admitted she was wrong, or done anything active in order to change and become a better woman or wife. Thus if she has not made any kind of move in 2 1/2 months, my assumption is that SHE HAS NOT admitted she was wrong, and she does not want to do anything in order to be different. If that is the case, then she will continue to justify what she has done, and she may "be sorry" that she got caught or that she had some "consequence" for committing adultery, but she isn't truly repentant. 

See...*truly repentant* means that she sorrows in her heart for the way she behaved, and she takes personal responsibility for her choices, and deep down within her she wants to be a different person and puts forth the effort to change and grow. Ideally this is what you look because it signals that maybe reconciliation is possible. If a WS is not truly repentant, I'm sorry to say that I do not believe that reconciliation is even a possibility, because without that fundamental desire to stop what they've been doing and start doing the moral and honorable thing, then rather than building a new, stronger marriage, the non-repentant WW will want to return things to "the way it was." A non-repentant WS will want to rugsweep (that means avoid it all and pretend like it never happened), and will partially always think the BS was to blame. So rather than facing themselves and changing at the core--a non-repentant WS will deflect, avoid, deny, project, gaslight, blameshift, manipulate and do all kinds of tactics! 

So here's my thought. Look at your situation. From what you can tell is she showing any signs of true repentance? Or is she showing signs of wanting to sweep it all under the rug and have no consequences? If she is not actively seeking to change ON HER OWN (without you "helping" or "reminding her") then she will stay the woman she is today and that is who you have as a wife. Can you accept that? Do you have children yet? If she did this over and over again a couple more times, could you handle that? Because if she doesn't change--she won't change! She'll keep doing the same things. 

That's where you have to decide. I'm sure there will be societal and moral and legal ramifications for you too, as the husband. The thing is--it's YOUR life, not ours. You can decide if you are willing to accept a woman as your wife who seems to have a weakness for cheating--or if you can not accept infidelity in your marriage. If you choose that you are a man who can not accept unfaithfulness in your spouse, and she is not willing to truly repent, then you go right ahead and made the decision you need to make. There's nothing wrong with being a faithful husband who removes an wife who commits adultery from his home. Yep, it hurts, but being an adult hurts sometimes.


----------



## ZedZ (Feb 6, 2017)

Ghost Rider said:


> You are correct; I found out by other means, although she confessed right away when I asked her if there was anything between her and OM besides just friendship. She confessed to sleeping with him. But I found out because one morning in December, she video-chatted me in FB and she was acting really funny, just talking weird and looking at me weird. So I checked her FB messenger because I had the password. I thought it might be a genuine problem of some sort; the last thing I expected to find out about was an affair, but there it was: explicit messages from the OM such as "are you on your period?" and *"you're not letting me come on you"*, and an arrangement to meet in a hotel room, which I think is where she had just come from when she video-chatted me in that weird way. It was guilt that gave her away. She only confessed when caught. And as I explained in another thread, I am now wondering if she didn't have a second affair back in 2011.
> 
> And yes, the part of your post that I put in bold is extremely difficult for me to deal with. I just cannot fathom the fact that another man had his penis in my wife's vagina. I can't deal with it.


Can you get past the bold statement....I can accept a lot of things but the OM is telling your wife he wants to cum on her...exactly where do you think he wants to cum?
No way no how....get out...start over...yes it suxs but you'll be better off in the long run....


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Thank you for your kind words & encouragement, bigfoot. I could really use them these days.


The thing is, there's more than enough Desi's here to make the dating process go smooth. There are many things counseling or therapy can address; BPD and family of origin issues, not so much.

I'm speaking from experience .


----------



## Secondguessing (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

I haven't read the entire thread but I can give the other perspective and tell you, even if she did "settle" that doesn't mean she didn't come to love you. I know because I settled for my wife after my first wife divorced me. I really wanted my first wife and didn't want the divorce and tried to find someone that looked like and acted like and was a duplicate of wife # 1. During the first year, I frequently addressed wife#2 by wife#1's name. It would drive her crazy.

My point is, after a year, I was madly in love with wife#2, especially after the birth of our first daughter. So you may be overstating things here. She may well have fallen in love and it was other issues - her own issues - that made her cheat.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Why would you want to be a room mate with someone that every time you saw them, your mind has mental images of them schlepping some other guy??? Women find confident men attractive.
> 
> Have her served divorce papers where she is at right now.


That may be the thing to do, but at this point I'm not worried about being attractive to women.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Is she back in India right now? Is he?


Yes to both questions. She bought a ticket to come home in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Ghost the reason we advocate filing now is because you can always call off the divorce later. This way you are ahead of the game, you have the advantage and she will have to play catch-up. Wait a few months down the road and discover she is not really remorseful or contrite, and you will be those many months behind and that much further away from getting her poison out of your life.


That is a good point. I may start the process as soon as she comes back.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Hello Ghost Rider and sorry to have you here.

You need to snap out of this. I am assuming that you have no children so this should be relatively easy.

First, you need to work on your self-esteem. I do not believe that anybody is so unattractive that they have nothing to offer attractive women - not unless they are immoral, lying cheats. Which you are not! But your wife is - so you need to understand (as somebody else said in this thread) that she is the one who has self esteem issues as she really has nothing to offer anyone (least of all you).

Was the first OM from India too ? There might be some common features/characteristics between the two OM's and that maybe the type she is attracted to (or maybe not). In any case you need to understand that your wife is ****ing another man while you write all this.

Divorce the hell out of her and blow her life up. Anyone who is brazen, disrespectful and immoral enough to put you down in front of others by saying that she only married you for stability but openly gets her kicks elsewhere is not wife material!!! Do this quickly (ripping off a band-aid) as letting it go on only makes the pain worse and more damaging.

By the way, I have an above average understanding of the sub-continent culture(s) - which part of India are your parents from ? I am assuming that she is the same in ethnicity ? Religion ? Is that true for the two OM's (same ethnicity and religion) ? Or will she cheat with/lust after just about anyone ?

Read up on the 180 to heal your mind and boost your mental well being.

Take care of yourself.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> That is a good point. I may start the process as soon as she comes back.


*I'd recommend starting and having the divorce filing process already done well before the time that her cheating butt reenters American airspace!

What a great homecoming gift for her to come back home to!*


----------



## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks, Far Side Junky (by the way, I loved that cartoon, too). You are 100% correct. She is afraid of what her immediate family will think, and probably her extended family and friends, too. She thinks her family will ostracize her if they find out, and she may very well be correct. She thinks her parents will have heart attacks if they find out.


So, no consideration for you? 

But you knew that when she was physical with OM.


----------



## coolgal (Mar 10, 2017)

Ghost Rider said:


> Hello, everyone. I'm here and also registered at SurvivingInfidelity.com because I recently found out my wife of 15 years had a months-long affair with another man, first online and then a real, physical affair starting in October when she went overseas to see him. I found out in December, a few days before Christmas. She had told me he was just a friend who went to the same middle school she did, and I believed in her and trusted her so much that even though in hindsight there were some huge, flaming red flags, at the time I rationalized them away whenever I saw them. And the thing that blows my mind the most is that she was always the jealous one. She was the one who was always accusing me of flirting with other women, of looking at them and checking them out, of wanting to walk out on her at any moment, of wanting to screw practically anything that moves, of being the sicko and the perv in the relationship.
> 
> It has been the most heartbreaking, confusing, and stressful thing I have ever been through. And with a major complicating factor that I don't know if very many people here have had to deal with, that when she went overseas she left me alone to care for the niece of the guy she had an affair with, who was living with us and dependent on us at least for shelter and transportation to school and work.
> 
> ...


Hi I can feel u r hurt lot but I am happy that u r not like other men who cheat their wife.u said that ur wife was jealous one it means she was really loving u loyally but she went into affair so something might have gone wrong with her,talk to her about this,don't get angry on her try to understand what she needs from you or else give one more chance to her without asking her a single question n without doubting her,forget all this be more good to her change urself according to her wish,so she may realize ur love n she will realise her fault n she will analyse herself n hope everything will be fine between both of you.


----------



## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ghost Rider said:


> Hello, everyone. I'm here and also registered at SurvivingInfidelity.com because I recently found out my wife of 15 years had a months-long affair with another man, first online and then a real, physical affair starting in October when she went overseas to see him. I found out in December, a few days before Christmas. She had told me he was just a friend who went to the same middle school she did, and I believed in her and trusted her so much that even though in hindsight there were some huge, flaming red flags, at the time I rationalized them away whenever I saw them. And the thing that blows my mind the most is that she was always the jealous one. She was the one who was always accusing me of flirting with other women, of looking at them and checking them out, of wanting to walk out on her at any moment, of wanting to screw practically anything that moves, of being the sicko and the perv in the relationship.
> 
> It has been the most heartbreaking, confusing, and stressful thing I have ever been through. And with a major complicating factor that I don't know if very many people here have had to deal with, that when she went overseas she left me alone to care for the niece of the guy she had an affair with, who was living with us and dependent on us at least for shelter and transportation to school and work.
> 
> ...


My college sweetheart and post-D gf accused me of sleeping around. I wasn't. It was from

their own insecurity. Insecure people cheat. Good bet this affair was not her first rodeo.

She shamed you about sleeping around to hide her own guilt. Ever heard the old saying,

"The one who screams innocence the loudest is usually the guilty party"


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> That is a good point. I may start the process as soon as she comes back.


Why wait? So she can talk you out of it? So you can lose your resolve?

You know once she returns she going to put in the waterworks show and "act" all sorry. And you will cave and not go through with it. 

Do it now. Have the petition waiting for her when she gets back. When she sees those papers she will either get defiant and tell you "okay...screw off", or she will collapse in a heap of real gurgling snot and tears begging you for a second chance. Either way you will be in control. It is about you staying in control of the situation, not her. 

If she were truly sorry for what she has done, and truly wanting to save her marriage, she would have been on the next plane home. Instead she gets two more weeks with her lover. You're being weak my man.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



snerg said:


> PFFT!
> 
> I have a buddy I went to college with.
> 
> ...


Thanks, snerg, for your advice & encouragement. At the ripe old age of 42, I think it's too late to seriously change my physique and I just don't have the time, energy, or motivation. I am just very tired these days. Regarding your list of 9 things, I've done 1 and 8. Regarding 7, I've asked a few times now and I still don't know what a "180" is. I sort of do 5 and 6. My body just shuts down at some point during the night. Regarding 2, I've not had sexual contact with my wife since her affair as it took place overseas. And I don't plan to when she comes home. I don't know if I even want to touch her.

Regarding 9 and the "Just Let Them Go" essay, I've asked her if she wanted to go with the OM. She denies that and says she wants to stay with me. When she left the country, I thought for sure she was leaving me for him - that if she hit it off with him when she got there, she would ask me for a divorce. That would have hurt very badly, but in some ways it would have been preferable to what is going on now.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



john117 said:


> The thing is, there's more than enough Desi's here to make the dating process go smooth. There are many things counseling or therapy can address; BPD and family of origin issues, not so much.
> 
> I'm speaking from experience .



Thanks, John. I would be interested in hearing about your experiences some time. They may already be in this forum somewhere. I appreciate it.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Secondguessing said:


> I haven't read the entire thread but I can give the other perspective and tell you, even if she did "settle" that doesn't mean she didn't come to love you. I know because I settled for my wife after my first wife divorced me. I really wanted my first wife and didn't want the divorce and tried to find someone that looked like and acted like and was a duplicate of wife # 1. During the first year, I frequently addressed wife#2 by wife#1's name. It would drive her crazy.
> 
> My point is, after a year, I was madly in love with wife#2, especially after the birth of our first daughter. So you may be overstating things here. She may well have fallen in love and it was other issues - her own issues - that made her cheat.


Thanks, Secondguessing, maybe she loved or loves me. I didn't mean to imply that she didn't at all. But this is too much.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



manfromlamancha said:


> Hello Ghost Rider and sorry to have you here.
> 
> You need to snap out of this. I am assuming that you have no children so this should be relatively easy.
> 
> ...


Thanks, manfromlamancha, for your advice & encouragement. I've always wondered if my wife had self-esteem issues deep down, even though she always talked a loud, good game. Just because she was always so hurt by small things that people say and do, that most of us would not think anything of or consider a minor irritation at most. 

By the first OM, are you referring to the guy who got her drunk and took her to a hotel in 2011? I can't remember if I mentioned him here or in my introductory thread. Anyway, if that's who you're referring to, then yes, that took place over there, too. If no, then maybe you know something about her that I don't. 

My parents are from Delhi. Yes, she has the same ethnicity. I am Christian, and she is Hindu, but she also has a Christian side of her family. Yes, both of the OM's are from there as well. I don't think she will go after just anyone. I think guys like these she considers to be handsome and they had some of that mystery-type appeal for her. I still don't know if she slept with the first OM, but in hindsight there were some interactions with him that should have been red flags. I don't know. It's all so messed up. Thanks again.

I'm still trying to figure out what the "180" is.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



arbitrator said:


> *I'd recommend starting and having the divorce filing process already done well before the time that her cheating butt reenters American airspace!
> 
> What a great homecoming gift for her to come back home to!*


I will talk to our lawyer. Thanks, arbitrator.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

@Ghost Rider, why do have so little self-confidence and self-worth? Have you thought about that? 

Have you browsed the reading suggested on your other thread? NMMNG

Here... The 180 U Turn - Affaircare

The Simplified 180


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



bandit.45 said:


> Why wait? So she can talk you out of it? So you can lose your resolve?
> 
> You know once she returns she going to put in the waterworks show and "act" all sorry. And you will cave and not go through with it.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, bandit, I am seriously considering this. Supposedly, she is not with him right now. But in fairness, I have been the one holding her off. I told her I needed time to myself to figure out what our next steps are. She bought a ticket home against my wishes.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks again, bandit, I am seriously considering this. *Supposedly, she is not with him right now.* But in fairness, I have been the one holding her off. I told her I needed time to myself to figure out what our next steps are. She bought a ticket home against my wishes.


She is.

Come on, man... pull your head out of the sand.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



anchorwatch said:


> @Ghost Rider, why do have so little self-confidence and self-worth? Have you thought about that?
> 
> Have you browsed the reading suggested on your other thread? NMMNG


Thanks, anchorwatch, I guess I've always been like that. It takes a lot of thinking and time and effort to figure out things that you've been ingrained with since childhood and how to reverse them when you're middle-aged. I don't think I'm totally hopeless but there probably is room for improvement. I'm very frustrated because just as I had been rejected by several girls or women I had liked throughout my life, I took this as a rejection from my wife, too. And I told her that, too, but then she denied that she meant it that way. Whatever. Insert eye roll here. I remember her raving about how handsome her OM and other guys were. She can't revise history now.

I have downloaded the file and will peruse it when I get a chance over the weekend.


----------



## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks, snerg, for your advice & encouragement. At the ripe old age of 42, I think it's too late to seriously change my physique


I'm quite a bit older than you and I lift almost daily
There's a guy at the guy I go to that is 74 and he still competes in power lifting tournaments across the country.
Age is only a mental block for change
You can change at any age. You have to make the effort.

Change starts when you take the first step.




Ghost Rider said:


> and I just don't have the time, energy, or motivation.


These are excuses. Stop making them

Even going to a gym for 15 minutes and just starting is a great first step.

Getting yourself to the gym will not only help you physically, but it help you mentally.
If you're friendly, a gym is a neat place to just meet people and talk for as much or little as you want (getting that small human contact is great for mental health).





Ghost Rider said:


> I am just very tired these days.


Two things:
1) Get tested for depression. I would be very surprised if you aren't at least a bit depressed
2) Get Testosterone levels checked. You would be amazed how being tired all the time is linked to LowT.






Ghost Rider said:


> I've asked a few times now and I still don't know what a "180" is.


Google the 180.
It's a process for you to detach from your spouse so you can start to heal.

*it is not a method to get the cheater back!*





Ghost Rider said:


> Regarding 9 and the "Just Let Them Go" essay, I've asked her if she wanted to go with the OM. She denies that and says she wants to stay with me.


You're misunderstanding Just Let Them GO.

Please reread it.

It's not about you asking her if she wants to be with the OM.

She has already decided that.

It's about you freeing yourself from the bonds of a cheating spouse.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Here is the 180... 

The 180 U Turn - Affaircare

The Simplified 180


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



GusPolinski said:


> She is.
> 
> Come on, man... pull your head out of the sand.


If she is, I will find out. No doubt about it.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



snerg said:


> I'm quite a bit older than you and I lift almost daily
> There's a guy at the guy I go to that is 74 and he still competes in power lifting tournaments across the country.
> Age is only a mental block for change
> You can change at any age. You have to make the effort.
> ...


Thanks again, snerg. I also would not be surprised to find out I'm depressed. I think I just need some time to deal with that.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



anchorwatch said:


> Here is the 180...
> 
> The 180 U Turn - Affaircare


Thanks, I will read up.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

aine said:


> Ghostrider,
> 
> What you have found out is probably only the tip of the iceberg. You need to take action now.
> Do not make any decisions at the moment as you are not in the right place to do so.
> ...


You are right; it may very well not be the first time. Last year, after her online affair started with her OM, she told me that when she went to India in 2011, one of her friends from childhood got her totally drunk and took her to a hotel and tried to have sex with her. She claimed she did not reciprocate or have sex with him but now I know that she is entirely capable of it. So that guy could have been an OM, too. God knows if there ever has been anyone else. I have always been clueless. For what it's worth, I have been talking to our lawyer and a counselor. And sometimes I do things for myself.

No, we don't have children. I would not have minded having children in the past, but after marrying her, and seeing how she treated me and finding out how she was treated in her family of origin, I gave up on the idea. I didn't see why she would treat her child any differently if she had one. I wanted the cycle of abuse to stop with her. Sometimes she says she wants to conceive by IVF (now that we are a little older) but I have no desire.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Satya said:


> You were her chump,to put it simply.
> 
> You should familiarize yourself with Chump Lady. She has many good articles.
> 
> https://www.chumplady.com


Thanks, Satya, I will check out that blog.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

Ghost Rider, the pity party routine is over the top.

Here is the bottom line:

If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting.

In other words, stop telling posters why their suggestions won't work, have a warm shot of "**** it, I'll try that", and actually DO something.

Those who want bad enough will find a way. Those who don't will find excuses.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ghost Rider, you have two threads going over the same subject. Speaking as a moderator, it needs to be one thread. I can either merge the two threads, or I can close one. Which would you prefer?


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Ghost Rider, you have two threads going over the same subject. Speaking as a moderator, it needs to be one thread. I can either merge the two threads, or I can close one. Which would you prefer?


You can merge them. I didn't intend for it to turn out that way. Even I started getting confused.


----------



## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



farsidejunky said:


> Ghost Rider, the pity party routine is over the top.
> 
> Here is the bottom line:
> 
> ...


I will tell my full story as soon as I can. Maybe people are getting impatient.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

The two threads are now merged.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

It is not a lack of patience. It is watching you absolutely bathe in the sympathy when it is provided, while finding excuses to not do every suggestion that would require action on your part.

You want sympathy. You don't want to do anything that would help the situation.

Why?



Ghost Rider said:


> I will tell my full story as soon as I can. Maybe people are getting impatient.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks again, bandit, I am seriously considering this. Supposedly, she is not with him right now. But in fairness, I have been the one holding her off. I told her I needed time to myself to figure out what our next steps are. She bought a ticket home against my wishes.


She told you she is not with him....

And you believe her? The one who lied and hid and snuck around behind your back?


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Ghost, 

Can i just add, that i hope you don't think we are emotionally beating you up, if anything i want you to see that we are here for you...through our advice, our words, our help for you as the BS......that as we read your story and others on here, we get angry for you, and we rally to provide you with actionable ideas, words of support, reference books, and yes sometimes we shake you up to help clear your mind, to help focus on you first, and then your relationship. You did not ask for this to happen to you, you had love and you had trust, and that has been either taken away or severely damaged. Consider this emotional triage on you.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

And remember that your wife's abuse of you is one of degrees. She has slowly ratcheted her play up over the years, and slowly desensitized you to what she is doing. The boiling frog syndrome is what they call it.


----------



## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Send her a note to not bother coming home. Then call her parents and tell them what she has been up to.
The divorce should follow soon after.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Thanks for your response SpaceGhost. Were the 2 OMs Christians too ?

Listen, you need to understand that she will always be a player/cheater. She was doing this before she met you and will continue to do this. I don't have your full story but I strongly urge you to dump her. Don't worry about her parents being ashamed or whatever - they probably know what she is up to anyway and were hoping you would take her off their hands and make it your problem.

You don't need to put up with this. As I said you have a lot going for you. For every one like her I can find you a dozen decent Indian girls from Goa, Mangalore/Bangalore, Bombay, Bengal (Anglo Indians), Kerala and Tamil Nadu and even Mizoram - all Christian if you like - Catholics, Syrian Orthodox (Kerala), Protestants whatever takes your fancy. I am guessing you don't know this because you grew up in the USA but your parents should tell you this. By the way, I have not come across many Christians in Delhi - still some of the best food in India there 

This is not going to get better because it is not in her DNA! She is going to be a repeat offender and this is not the person you need to be with for the rest of your life.

When you get enough posts and have the ability to send private messages I would like to hear your full story although maybe you could share it in a non-revealing manner. Do you suspect that she is looking at what sites you visit etc ?

Take care.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Taxman said:


> Send her a note to not bother coming home. Then call her parents and tell them what she has been up to.
> The divorce should follow soon after.


This would be optimal. Ghost can do a POD shipment of her clothes and belongings over to her later on.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks, snerg, for your advice & encouragement. At the ripe old age of 42, I think it's too late to seriously change my physique and I just don't have the time, energy, or motivation. I am just very tired these days.


FYI, 42 is not too old to change your physique. I had times in my life when I also didn't have the energy to commit to a gym. The surprising thing is that starting to seriously exercise is what gave me energy and motivation. I force myself to go lift weights the first three times. After that, I started wanting to go. It's a real positive life changer.


----------



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> I will tell my full story as soon as I can. Maybe people are getting impatient.


People are getting frustrated because of your indecisiveness and passive nature. When others have acted the same under similar circumstances, it has never worked out in the history of the universe. EVER.

And to counter your belief that you can't improve your physique at 42, I'm probably in the best physical shape of my life at almost 50 and I did it all in the past year.


----------



## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



farsidejunky said:


> It is not a lack of patience. It is watching you absolutely bathe in the sympathy when it is provided, while finding excuses to not do every suggestion that would require action on your part.
> 
> You want sympathy. You don't want to do anything that would help the situation.
> 
> Why?


I know I know!

Because he's still in the shock and awe stage, still reeling from it all, and he is unable to take affirmative action at this time.

I was there at the start of my divorce, and then, like Rocky did, after taking countless bunches to the chin with my hands at my sides, somewhere around round 20 I pulled myself up by the ropes, stumbled to stand on my unsteady feet, wiped the blood and sweat out of my eyes, planted my feet and started hitting back. 

Eye of the Tiger.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



browser said:


> I know I know!
> 
> Because he's still in the shock and awe stage, still reeling from it all, and he is unable to take affirmative action at this time.
> 
> ...


Rocky did it with body shots. Tequila out of a hot chick's belly button.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



browser said:


> I know I know!
> 
> Because he's still in the shock and awe stage, still reeling from it all, and he is unable to take affirmative action at this time.
> 
> ...


He's cut..... it's a bad cut. Round 2 and up to Round 3..... best part of IV


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> I will tell my full story as soon as I can. Maybe people are getting impatient.


I don't know that it's important to tell your life story. You've told the salient details of the infidelity and you need help to get out of infidelity, if that's what you want to do. The good people on this thread have given you the tools and means to do just that. You've had 3 months to digest this so it's not like you found out last week. 

If you want to wallow around and eventually resort to rug sweeping because it is easier, keep doing what you're doing. If you want your new life to commence, then start following the advice in this thread. Good luck to you.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

It wasn't my intention to have a mindless pity party. I'm sorry if I came off that way. I will post more later. I'm sorting through a lot right now. Not everything is as simple and quick as you would like it to be. Have a nice day.


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## Primrose (Mar 4, 2015)

Ghost Rider said:


> It wasn't my intention to have a mindless pity party. I'm sorry if I came off that way. I will post more later. I'm sorting through a lot right now. Not everything is as simple and quick as you would like it to be. Have a nice day.


You are hoping for someone to say, "this can be worked out", so that you do not have to go through with the D. It's time for you to get angry! I can promise you that your WW *knows* you aren't going to dole out the D. She *knows* she can get back in your good graces with empty promises and excessive tears. I don't know you from Adam, but I already know this much about you. 

And then once the storm has calmed? She will do it to you all over again. I promise you that. 

Have her served immediately. You do not have to follow through with it afterward, but her being served so quick will be the best slap in the face she'll ever receive. And yes, tell her family. She doesn't get to avoid the embarrassment and shame her actions have brought YOU.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Primrose said:


> You are hoping for someone to say, "this can be worked out", so that you do not have to go through with the D. It's time for you to get angry! I can promise you that your WW *knows* you aren't going to dole out the D. She *knows* she can get back in your good graces with empty promises and excessive tears. I don't know you from Adam, but I already know this much about you.
> 
> And then once the storm has calmed? She will do it to you all over again. I promise you that.
> 
> ...


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Ghost Rider said:


> It wasn't my intention to have a mindless pity party. I'm sorry if I came off that way. I will post more later. I'm sorting through a lot right now. Not everything is as simple and quick as you would like it to be. Have a nice day.


Just put one foot in front of the other. It's on your time line now, @Ghost Rider. You don't have to rush for anyone, not us and not her. Its all about you. Do you understand?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> She has to come home from overseas first, which will happen in a couple of weeks. Honestly, I'm not sure if I want D or R. I'm afraid of both. I will see how she acts toward me. I just want to be like roommates.


No you don't want to be like roommates. You need to focus on YOU. You really don't need to worry about her desires at this point. This wasnt a mistake. She had this planned out. Sounds like she has been disrespectful for a long time and what she did is the ultimate disrespect. You need to make her feel the consequences for her actions.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks, Far Side Junky (by the way, I loved that cartoon, too). You are 100% correct. She is afraid of what her immediate family will think, and probably her extended family and friends, too. She thinks her family will ostracize her if they find out, and she may very well be correct. She thinks her parents will have heart attacks if they find out.


If you have not exposed the affair to your family and hers you should do it NOW. Again there are consequences and she needs to feel those.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Steve1000 said:


> FYI, 42 is not too old to change your physique. I had times in my life when I also didn't have the energy to commit to a gym. The surprising thing is that starting to seriously exercise is what gave me energy and motivation. I force myself to go lift weights the first three times. After that, I started wanting to go. It's a real positive life changer.


Ghost,I am 55 and am in the best shape of my life. I started working out last summer so you are NOT too old. You CAN change your appearance (my wife LOVES my new look). You need to do this for YOU.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> If you have not exposed the affair to your family and hers you should do it NOW. Again there are consequences and she needs to feel those.


I'm not a big fan of exposure especially if there's a divorce pending because it will only increase the hostilities and make the divorce that much more difficult and expensive, and exposing seems like an act of petty revenge. Except in the case where the betrayed partner is trying to 'bring the cheater back to reality by breaking them out of the affair fog". I understand that exposure may be beneficial to the betrayed spouse because it shows everyone else that he or she is not the bad guy, but I'm not understanding why "teaching her a lesson is so important". I'm thinking he needs to get to the point where he doesn't care what she thinks and feels.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

You do not specify what country your wife is from, however, if she is from South Asia, the far east, or the middle east, the best way to handle this is to ensure that her family back home is made aware of even the slightest hint of scandal. Once they are done with her, you can assess whether or not you want her. (My experience here is limited to one family from India, who disowned their daughter, but would not allow her to return to the US, and one middle eastern family (Somali) she was caught giving oral to a guy in his van by her husband. She was sent back to Somalia, the ex has no idea what became of her, the divorce was uncontested)


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> As I said in my first post in the off-topic area, my wife was always the jealous one. So when I think of my sleep test, I remember how a female technician put the probes and sensors on me and how my wife was so jealous and thought I had the hots for the technician...and then several months later she was the one who had an affair (smh).


She was PROJECTING her feelings on to you. In other words, she wanted to cheat, was flirting with men hoping to get laid, and just assumed then that YOU were also cheating and trying to screw other women. It was a bad early warning sign.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

browser said:


> . I understand that exposure may be beneficial to the betrayed spouse because it shows everyone else that he or she is not the bad guy, but I'm not understanding why "teaching her a lesson is so important". I'm thinking he needs to get to the point where he doesn't care what she thinks and feels.


I am not advocating that he teach her a lesson. She needs to understand that there are consequences to her actions. He also does need to make sure she doesn't rewrite their history to the family.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You can't teach a wayward a lesson. You cannot punish them. All you can do is remove yourself from their dysfunction and take yourself completely out of the equation.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I disagree, I think you can. BUT.... how often do you hear "I was wrong?" NOT often.

The key is, YOU know. It took 20 years for me to hear -i was wrong-from my 1st and 2nd love. Took a year 

to hear it from my XW. But if you knew you were right to begin with, their affirmation, is NOT needed.

That would put your emotional well-being in another person's hands. VERY unhealthy.

If you feel in your heart you did the professional thing, WGAFF what other's think?


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> I am not advocating that he teach her a lesson. She needs to understand that there are consequences to her actions.


I'm not seeing the difference between "teaching her a lesson" and "getting her to understand there are consequences to her actions"


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

browser said:


> I'm not seeing the difference between "teaching her a lesson" and "getting her to understand there are consequences to her actions"


I agree. If you need to imagine somehow there is a difference, just knowing the consequence for her actions is that you aren't with her and that is the main lesson she should learn, should be more than enough satisfaction.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

browser said:


> I'm not seeing the difference between "teaching her a lesson" and "getting her to understand there are consequences to her actions"


Would you suggest he do nothing? How well has that done so far? Getting her to understand means just that. It will try to force her to think about what she has done. The intent is NOT too punish but to get her to think about what she has done.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ghost Rider said:


> It wasn't my intention to have a mindless pity party. I'm sorry if I came off that way. I will post more later. I'm sorting through a lot right now. Not everything is as simple and quick as you would like it to be. Have a nice day.


How are things GR?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> As someone who recently found out about his wife's affair, if there is anyone reading this forum who is considering getting married, I can tell you what not to do to help ensure long-term success in your marriage: *Do NOT marry somebody who you know is just settling for you because they couldn't get the one they really wanted.* I knew this was happening but I rationalized it away. I made this mistake 15 years ago because I have never been the type of guy who could just have any woman he wants any time (those kinds of guys are out there, including my wife's eventual OM, and I don't know how they do it) and I was afraid of being alone for the rest of my life. But ever since, I have been nothing but a huge disappointment to my wife, who before we were married would have dumped me in a flash had the guy she had been in love with for years been able to tell her he loved her. Now that I have found out about the affair (the OM is not the same guy she was in love with 15 years ago) she is acting all remorseful and denying that she was ever disappointed in me, but I am not letting her revise history. She was disappointed in just about every aspect of my life and personality. I will never be as attractive physically as her first love or the OM, and I'll never have the personalities they had that appealed to her so much. She was even disappointed in my sleep apnea. I'll never forget how her upper lip curled in disgust when she looked at me and reminded me of my sleep apnea.
> 
> So don't ruin your life with somebody like this. If you know for a fact your prospective marriage partner is with you because they couldn't get the one they really wanted, then RUN FOR THE HILLS. Have the confidence that you will find somebody who loves you for you - and spare yourself years upon years of misery and heartbreak.


old post


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



sokillme said:


> old post


Current poster.......... this thread most identified with his possible D.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Chuck71 said:


> Current poster.......... this thread most identified with his possible D.


So since you identified with this post I will say something about this quote. 



> Do NOT marry somebody who you know is just settling for you because they couldn't get the one they really wanted.


She didn't settle, he did. This quote makes it seem like she is some great catch that he wasn't good enough for. She was just an adulterous tramp. There is nothing more sad then hearing BS pine away from some disloyal ******* like they are the catch of the century. 

The truth about most WS is If who they truly are was on display for the whole world to see no one in there right mind would want them, NO ONE. That is why they have to lie and hide who they are. Imagine having to hide who you are to the whole world because that is the only way to get people to invest in you?

Every time you pine away for these *******s it's YOU who are settling because you are the one believing that you are not worth more, that you can't do better. News flash anyone can do better then this. When it comes to committed relationships they are worth nothing. NOTHING. I get it be sad, but be sad because you were tricked and wasted time, not because you lost out on the pot of gold. It's junk bonds, that is what you are crying about. Nothing of value was lost except time, certainly not the person. That you didn't have value when you thought you did that is sad yes, but at least there is the potential to eventually have some value with a genuine good person. If anything them being in your life was preventing that. 

There are good people out there looking for other good people.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> How are things GR?


Thanks for checking on me, Chuck. I am doing much better these days than I was 7 months ago when I first posted this. I was a mess back then. I went into severe depression that hit rock bottom over the summer and then my doctor put me on anti-depressants, which along with the healing power of time, have helped.

We are not divorced yet, but I've decided that's what I want.

I may still tell my story at some point, or some of the things that have happened since March, but I feel like it's kind of useless as I already know what advice I will get.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



sokillme said:


> So since you identified with this post I will say something about this quote.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In fairness to myself, I was referring to "settling" from her point of view, which she was, and not my own. Although I had self-esteem issues in the past, this had no bearing on my post and I was not referring to that. And I meant, in a much more general sense, to advise others: don't marry a person who doesn't really want to be with you, who actually wanted to be with someone else but couldn't get them. It will make for an unhealthy relationship. Don't learn the hard way like I did.

I know I am a really good guy and a woman should be lucky to be with me. I don't mean that in a cocky way. I'm not rich or super good-looking but you could do much worse.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you've said about my wife. I have no defense for her, or interest in defending her. I'm done.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks for checking on me, Chuck. I am doing much better these days than I was 7 months ago when I first posted this. I was a mess back then. I went into severe depression that hit rock bottom over the summer and then my doctor put me on anti-depressants, which along with the healing power of time, have helped.
> 
> We are not divorced yet, but I've decided that's what I want.
> 
> I may still tell my story at some point, or some of the things that have happened since March, but I feel like it's kind of useless as I already know what advice I will get.


What is your plan?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Re: What NOT to Do*



Ghost Rider said:


> In fairness to myself, I was referring to "settling" from her point of view, which she was, and not my own. Although I had self-esteem issues in the past, this had no bearing on my post and I was not referring to that. And I meant, in a much more general sense, to advise others: don't marry a person who doesn't really want to be with you, who actually wanted to be with someone else but couldn't get them. It will make for an unhealthy relationship. Don't learn the hard way like I did.
> 
> I know I am a really good guy and a woman should be lucky to be with me. I don't mean that in a cocky way. I'm not rich or super good-looking but you could do much worse.
> 
> Otherwise, I agree with everything you've said about my wife. I have no defense for her, or interest in defending her. I'm done.


Her point of view is wrong. They are the ones who are the bad investment. Just saying.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Ghost Rider said:


> Thanks for checking on me, Chuck. I am doing much better these days than I was 7 months ago when I first posted this. I was a mess back then. I went into severe depression that hit rock bottom over the summer and then my doctor put me on anti-depressants, which along with the healing power of time, have helped.
> 
> We are not divorced yet, but I've decided that's what I want.
> 
> I may still tell my story at some point, or some of the things that have happened since March, but I feel like it's kind of useless as I already know what advice I will get.


Did you get divorced yet @ghostrider?


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

*Re: What NOT to Do*

I know this poster hasn't posted or updated in two years. I'm not trying to resurrect an old thread.

I just want to single out this portion and bump it up. Could save some heartache for those approaching marriage.

Simple, profound truth here.



Ghost Rider said:


> ....if there is anyone reading this forum who is considering getting married, I can tell you what not to do to help ensure long-term success in your marriage: *Do NOT marry somebody who you know is just settling for you because they couldn't get the one they really wanted.*


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