# Question About Size



## vtx1800steve (May 9, 2019)

Looking for some honest opinions. I met my wife in the Philippines 35 years ago. She was working in a bar as a bar girl, you can pay the bar to take them out, they act like your girlfriends and they will spend the night, several days if you like. I was tall, extremely skinny, had no self-confidence, and very naïve. I asked her to stop working in the bar until I returned to the U.S and could file for a fiancé visa. I was stationed in Okinawa, but I would fly down to be with her several times. A year ago, I finally realized that she was seeing other guys while she was waiting for me to bring her to the U.S. 

Being malnourished throughout my adolescence my puberty was delayed, as a result my penis is 4 and ¾ fully erect. I have felt shame because of that all my life. While talking several months ago she mentioned that I had the smallest penis of all the men she had been with. I asked her if the other girls asked about my size because I was so tall, she said yes, but I didn’t tell them anything. She had had a couple of drinks when she told me this.

A couple weeks later I told her that it bothered me what she had said. She then denied ever saying it, when I asked her about my size, she said back then she didn’t know anything about men having different size penises and she had no idea that my **** is shorter. The only good thing is I am 6.2 in girth. I have told her that I know that I was the smallest, and it would help if she could be honest with me about it. I have brought this up a few times, but she is sticking with her story that she has no memory of any difference in the size of men’s penises that she slept with. 

She has been a good wife but we have had a couple of issues. Several years into our marriage I found a letter from another man in her things. I am not sure if she brought it with her or he sent it while we were together. A few months ago, she admitted that she talked to the guy on the phone after she moved in with me, but that they were just friends. I only am mentioning this because she will lie to get herself out of an uncomfortable situation. She says the only reason that she kept the letter was for sentimental reasons.

My question is, and I am naïve for even asking, but is there any way that she was not aware of the sizes of men’s penises? Our first night together she gave my penis a look over and gave a little oral. I would really like to hear from a woman about what you think of the situation. I would just like the truth so as not to wonder what the truth is. Thanks for your time.

It is or was quite common for military men to marry women working in the bars. Most of the women are desperate and given a chance they make great wives.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's completely possible that she was not focused on penis size.

I've never even thought about the difference in size of the men I've had sex with. That's not what matters. What matters is whether or not they were loving and not self centered during sex.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Stop picking at this scab. Acting insecure and afraid of your penis size is likely to turn her off much more than the actual size. 

I don't get guys like you. You have what you have. Short (no pun intended) of surgery, this is all you'll ever have. You know it's small. How exactly will badgering her to lie to you make it any bigger?

Put your efforts into being a generous and proficient lover. If you think sex starts and ends with **** size, you wouldn't be able to please her if you had a salami between your legs.

Also, if she is a liar as you say, you have bigger problems than size. Big dongs don't inject truth serum any more than small ones.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

If you have been together for 35 years why are you worrying about this now? Its way way in the past, and even if most the men she had sex with were bigger so what? What will you do about it? I am assuming that you have had a good marriage if its lasted so long so just let it go.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

vtx1800steve said:


> The only good thing is I am 6.2 in girth.


So, just trying to understand here...your 'malnourished' status in childhood made your penis very short, yet it *didn't* affect the girth? How on earth does THAT happen? Come on now, OP.



> I have told her that I know that I was the smallest, and it would help if she could be honest with me about it. I have brought this up a few times, but she is sticking with her story that she has no memory of any difference in the size of men’s penises that she slept with.


It would "help" in what way? So you can wallow even more in it? Why are you hounding her to say something she clearly *doesn't* want to say? What are you trying to _prove_? What's your payoff in doing that???



> My question is, and I am naïve for even asking, but is there any way that she was not aware of the sizes of men’s penises?


Let's not kid ourselves here. I've been in very uncomfortable situations where the guy was extremely small and was totally unaware of it and was actually making comments about his massive manhood. I thought for sure he had to be joking, but he wasn't. I won't lie to a guy and tell him he's well endowed if he's clearly not, I just refuse to lie like that. But I'll try to find something positive to say that isn't a lie. That ain't easy to do, either. 

But I just don't understand why you're trying _*so*_ hard to force your wife to admit to you that she's seen bigger penises. You know she has, *I *know she has, even my Pomeranian knows she has.

Just learn to accept it and stop beating the poor woman up with YOUR insecurities.



> It is or was quite common for military men to marry women working in the bars. Most of the women are desperate and given a chance they make great wives.


Why? Because they're grateful? Docile? Subservient? Just curious.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You can't change it so why worry about it. Work with what you have.

Besides what's the point unless you are John Homes there is probably someone with a bigger one. She married you so assume she was fine with what you had.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@vtx1800steve

How old are you and your wife?

Do the two of you have any children?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Your prior thread was titled "The unknown is killing me." It was a different unknown then; you were suspecting she'd had an affair, and if I recall correctly, you admitted that you'd had one 5 or 6 years ago? Which you kept secret from her but she found out? Why did you try to hide that affair, yet expect her to spill the beans on whatever you suspect she did or knows? 

You didn't come to marriage through the usual path; you chose someone who was paid to please men, to put it politely. Women who were looking for a way out by marriage to a serviceman, providing them with their view of the American Dream which was certainly much better than what they were running away from at home. You knew this; you knew your wife had a history, you knew such relationships were based on a practical view of using their, er, feminine charms? It's difficult to put things in a way that doesn't sound bad. But you did, absolutely, enter into a non-traditional (for America and much of the rest of the world) type of marriage.

Forget about specifics for now. See a marriage counselor and discuss your differing notions of privacy. If in fact they are different, since you were hiding an affair from her. You both may be "guilty" of not being straightforward with the other. 

How about this. If she's open to it, if you are open to it. Vow to keep no secrets. Unlock the past. And then, knowing what you know, knowing how you feel about each other, would you get married again? If the answer is yes, then renew your vows. If the answer is no, then consider that you, in particular, will never be happy, you will always have these concerns about what she knows that you don't. Dissolve the marriage. Or at least admit to each other that it's a marriage based on practicality and not love.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So, just trying to understand here...your 'malnourished' status in childhood made your penis very short, yet it *didn't* affect the girth? How on earth does THAT happen? Come on now, OP.
> 
> It would "help" in what way? So you can wallow even more in it? Why are you hounding her to say something she clearly *doesn't* want to say? What are you trying to _prove_? What's your payoff in doing that???
> 
> ...


You have a Pom?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If it still works, keep using it!:grin2:


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

I don't want to try to speak for all women but I think it's safe to say that we are "aware" of penis size. To directly answer your question, it would be hard not to notice the size of something that you are playing with and going into you.

Maybe you can think of it this way. If you are in the supermarket selecting fruit or whatever, you will always "be aware" of the size of the fruit that you are selecting. But unless it's unusually big or small or shaped "differently", you don't really think too much about it. And people's perceptions of what's "big" or "small" and what causes someone to "take note" of the size can be very different. She may have taken note of your thickness.

When I encountered new penises, I sometimes would just comment to myself on something that stands out from others, like "hmmm...that's a ...." Could be shape, whatever dimension. Darker than you would have expected. Veiny, etc. Maybe TMI but my point is that it's just normal to be "aware" of different things but that doesn't mean it's a big deal. No different from any characteristic of a person. Nose size. Eyebrows. Arms. Boobs. Anything.

I don't think you have anything to worry about with size. Women (and men) can always go off and find someone else with with more impressive [choose any attribute]. But it's the combination of all attributes (your humor, your kindness, your intelligence, your face, etc, etc, etc) that make a person unique and it's that combination that people fall in love with. Don't worry about it!


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

You want affirmation from your wife that you are "enough" for her.
This stems from the fact that you are very insecure. Not about your body, but about your relationship with her.
Sounds like she's a player, probably a cheater.
I believe that this is your REAL issue.
That's enough to make anybody feel like they are never enough.
You could have a manhood as long as it gets and then you'd be asking if you were too much.
Fix the root issue. You don't trust her. Her infidelities have made you feel insecure.

Do I notice? Yes. Do I comment? Never. There is something good in every penis. Guys with big ones often think that's their only gift, and are poor lovers. More average guys are often more talented with other gifts.


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## vtx1800steve (May 9, 2019)

Thanks for the answers. I am not looking to throw something in her face, I am going to stay with her, I think I am just looking to hear some opinions. I don't want to bring this issue up with her again, I don't want to upset her with my mental issues. I think I am just curious as to why she has a problem talking about this issue. She is the one who told me about being the smallest a few months ago, I am trying to resolve my issues with this. It's is not about if she has had bigger, she has, It's been a life ling issue for me, I am just trying to put the issue away.

I am not the best communicator. When I brought up that women that grew up in Asia usually make good wives, it is actually because they are stronger, not submissive at all. As I have lived and worked in Asia, Europe, and the Middle East I tend to get along wife people from Asia as I have an understanding of how difficult and different their lives can be. Some Americans are too soft, I grew up with quite a few challenges and I seem to get along with people from Asia.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

vtx1800steve said:


> I am just curious as to why she has a problem talking about this issue.


Answer:



vtx1800steve said:


> I told her that it bothered me what she had said.


Your wife doesn't know what to say, so she avoids talking about it. It's unfortunate that your wife uses "excuses" to bring uncomfortable subjects to an end. This is a breakdown in communication.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dude, you're a little on the short side but your volume is just fine.

Not a lot of men are going to beat you out in the girth department.

I hope you two can work through your insecurities and possibly hers as well.

My wife's first husband was somewhat enormous downstairs but she was only married to him for two fairly unhappy years.

We have been together for over 28 years, 24 married, and still going strong.

We have two sons and 3 grandchildren, sex is on the menu whenever I desire and she initiates more than I do.

She is my best friend and the love of my life and I guarantee she believes the same about me as well as thinking I'm her best lover.

I could be hung like a roll of nickels and she would feel the same way. Penis size and shape does have an impact on sex but not enough to determine satisfaction in the bedroom and satisfaction in marriage.

Too small and too big are very real problems but you have plenty as long as you care about her pleasure as well as your own.

You have many years under your belt and I hope many more for you.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Basically, you married a prostitute. If you are a guy with an averaged length pecker let alone a shorter one - you should have zero doubts that she's seen longer ones than yours is. However, if you are truly well above average on the girth side at 6.2", then it's quite possible she never had anyone girthier than you. Based on location alone - assuming a lot of U.S. military has been thru the town where your wife worked - chances are she's met someone who was bigger, better in bed, more suave, etc. Especially in her line of work, it would come with the territory. 

If she's made you very happy for all these years, then you shouldn't worry about it. Otherwise, pull the plug and find someone else if this is a deal breaker for you ultimately.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

vtx1800steve, I hereby dub thee "Tuna Can".

And I agree with Plan 9. You married a fungirl, and with that you have to naturally lower your expectations as to her morality and fidelity. You cannot hold a scorpion in your hand and not expect to get stung a few times trying to make it into a pet.


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## vtx1800steve (May 9, 2019)

Thanks again for the replies. I don't think that I will be able to look at a tuna can again without a chuckle. Just being able to talk about issues on this board help. I have always come up short on the social skills side of things. If I had full confidence in myself I wouldn't have a ned to post something here.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

vtx1800steve said:


> Most of the women are desperate and given a chance they make great wives.


I think your wife is well described by "desperate", and she took what was, quite possibly, the only method she had of earning a living. I'm also thinking that she got her chance and became a great wife. I agree with the others who said if she has made you happy, why sweat it ?

I think she is telling you the truth that she really paid no attention to "size" or any of the other attributes of her other guys. She was looking for her GI Joe and she found him, and the fact that she doesn't want to discuss it with you indicates to me that she has your emotional well-being and your happiness at heart. She doesn't want to say things which hurt you.

You have been given a difficult handicap. Many guys never get over being smaller. Not only in the penis, but in height, musculature, brain, talents, etc. No matter which department, the thought of being "less than" renders many of us quite unhappy with our lives.

I'll also wager another bet..... I'll bet your wife wouldn't trade you for all her other guys put together.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

She's been with you for 35 years. Let the past stay in the past.

I didn't save the link, but I remember reading something about gender differences in Google searches. For searches about penis size, they were virtually all done by males. Within reason, most women aren't that focused on size. It's a rare woman that wouldn't be more attracted to a confident, loving, and sexually giving man with smaller than average equipment vs a largely endowed man that didn't bring much else to the table. In other words, she's probably much less concerned about your size than about your lack of confidence. Focus on the latter - it is something that matters and something that you can change.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

FalCod said:


> She's been with you for 35 years. Let the past stay in the past.
> 
> I didn't save the link, but I remember reading something about gender differences in Google searches. For searches about penis size, they were virtually all done by males. Within reason, most women aren't that focused on size. It's a rare woman that wouldn't be more attracted to a confident, loving, and sexually giving man with smaller than average equipment vs a largely endowed man that didn't bring much else to the table. In other words, she's probably much less concerned about your size than about your lack of confidence. Focus on the latter - it is something that matters and something that you can change.


This should be pinned at the top of the sex forum. (Actually there should be a penis size forum with just this message)

GUYS care about size 100x more than women do. Not saying _some_ women arent into really big units, but I would wager most arent that concerned. 

I think most guys buy into the bigger is better mentality that pervades most everything in our lives. We think packing a footlong will make us powerful and sex machines. 

While I dont have anywhere near that, ive learned over the years through manual play, toys, and even trying a penis enhancer, that my wife could care less about being pleased with a summer sausage. 

So OP and other guys, believe the women in your life when they tell you they arent _that_ concerned about your size.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Typo


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Typo


Ugh stupid phone.. I meant to correct that a big n tall frame w small penis would Not be preferred over normal


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## jane jasmine (Dec 29, 2019)

I believe you should worry less about your sire and star building confidence


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

What do you suppose the other men can do that you cannot do because of difference in size? 
The discussion on penis size seems to me to be as pointless as discussing the size of potatoes one is going to pill and boil. 
The important point is how your treat her as a wife.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Basically, you married a prostitute. If you are a guy with an averaged length pecker let alone a shorter one - you should have zero doubts that she's seen longer ones than yours is. However, if you are truly well above average on the girth side at 6.2", then it's quite possible she never had anyone girthier than you. Based on location alone - assuming a lot of U.S. military has been thru the town where your wife worked - chances are she's met someone who was bigger, better in bed, more suave, etc. Especially in her line of work, it would come with the territory.
> 
> If she's made you very happy for all these years, then you shouldn't worry about it. Otherwise, pull the plug and find someone else if this is a deal breaker for you ultimately.


I would agree with all of this except the better in bed part. Sexual compatibility is not static, you can work at it and become someones best if you both are committed, honest, vulnerable to it and have sexual chemistry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

FalCod said:


> She's been with you for 35 years. Let the past stay in the past.
> 
> I didn't save the link, but I remember reading something about gender differences in Google searches. For searches about penis size, they were virtually all done by males. Within reason, most women aren't that focused on size. It's a rare woman that wouldn't be more attracted to a confident, loving, and sexually giving man with smaller than average equipment vs a largely endowed man that didn't bring much else to the table. In other words, she's probably much less concerned about your size than about your lack of confidence. Focus on the latter - it is something that matters and something that you can change.


This is such a good point. If anything all you need to do is look at the cheating stories where the wives throw themselves at guys who are much less physically attractive then their husbands. What do all these guys they cheat with have in common. They know how to connect emotionally with these women and they make them feel like a goddess. Now very often they do it with lies and bull****, but to the wife's at the time it feels real, even if they are deluding themselves. The emotional connection is what makes them want to throw themselves at the guy. 

In general women do work like men, you must build an intimate connection with her and make her feel wanted, that is not to say being physically attractive doesn't help but people need to understand that attractiveness and what is attractive to individual people is much more broad then what we see in the media. Yes work on your attractiveness but that doesn't mean you have to be Brad Pitt or The Rock. Also you have to be confident enough to do that. Confidence is attractive, it makes you see more sincere but it also makes you seem valuable. 

Work on being the best you, you can be, then go seduce you wife.


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## vtx1800steve (May 9, 2019)

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. I appreciate all the responses.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

sokillme said:


> This is such a good point. If anything all you need to do is look at the cheating stories where the wives throw themselves at guys who are much less physically attractive then their husbands. What do all these guys they cheat with have in common. They know how to connect emotionally with these women and they make them feel like a goddess. Now very often they do it with lies and bull****, but to the wife's at the time it feels real, even if they are deluding themselves. The emotional connection is what makes them want to throw themselves at the guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Love x2!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

*Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



jane jasmine said:


> I believe you should worry less about your size and star building confidence


So I'm going to derail this very slightly and ask, do women really have a clue as to the consequences of their answers when a guy asks about size? 

There is an assumption that it's "ok" to be truthful, and sometimes to expand beyond the immediate scope of the question.

But what if we turn it around a bit? What if a woman were to ask a guy how she tastes? Should the guy answer honestly and comparatively? Let's say there hadn't been an issue up to that point; the guy enthusiastically engaged in oral with her. But she's a bit apprehensive and wants an honest answer, and if the honest answer is, well yes, you kind of smell of elderberries, but I love you anyway... how would that go over? 

I think there's some responsibility for the woman to consider this is a potential mine field and to be cautious about what is volunteered. When I think back, way back, to some things my wife-then-early-girlfriend said about one of her boyfriends at the time, the size of his member, I was thinking then, and remember now, why is she telling me this? I didn't ask for such specifics. It was part of the vetting process of who she is, who I am.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

Middle of Everything said:


> This should be pinned at the top of the sex forum. (Actually there should be a penis size forum with just this message)
> 
> GUYS care about size 100x more than women do. Not saying _some_ women arent into really big units, but I would wager most arent that concerned.
> 
> ...


The sub-forum should be titled "ICBM". We'll list our thrust, range, launch times and delivered megadeaths...

Or, maybe I took to many poli-sci courses near the end of the Cold War.


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## talesofthe-twofoldmother (Dec 18, 2019)

I hate to sound like a teenager here... but we had a saying growing up... and it is true for most women
especially women who are with someone they love!

It's not the size of the boat that matters... it's in the motion of the ocean! 

Be thankful for your size, there are many others out there that are not even that fortunate.

I think the real issue here is to love yourself and find many other ways to enjoy and embrace that part of your lives together.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



Casual Observer said:


> So I'm going to derail this very slightly and ask, do women really have a clue as to the consequences of their answers when a guy asks about size?
> 
> There is an assumption that it's "ok" to be truthful, and sometimes to expand beyond the immediate scope of the question.
> 
> ...


Look I agree, it's not right to be throwing that in any spouse's face. But on the other hand lots of guys refuse to believe that most women don't think bigger is better. I get that it's that way in porn but it's not that way for most women. We need to stop being so fragile about this. 

Look at it this way what if you are a women with a small chest? Say you know that you husband dated a woman built like Selma Hayek? What do you do? What can you do? You suck it up and assume that that is a very small part (no pun intended) of his attraction to you and even more so the entire relationship. Let me ask you would chest size be the entirety to your attraction to a woman you were with? For me it's not.

Some of this goes to how men seem to idealize women. In this way (boob size, **** size) we are not that different. Yes there are size queens and breast men but most of us are pretty open to some variation.

Now I could understand if you are a woman whose husband says (man so and so had the best rack I have ever seen and flaunts that in her face, and I know this is more your point just in reverse. Again I agree) but then the problem isn't your chest or **** size it's that your spouse is an *******. None of that is not the case at least with this thread. Besides you know that guys talk about past loves with each other, does that mean we are any less attracted to our wife's or want to be with them less. At least for most of us (assuming you married someone you are attracted to) it's not the case. And if it is and you aren't attracted to your spouse then you made a mistake marrying them. 

So we talk about it with our friends we should assume are wives talk about it too and if we can understand that OUR WIVES should be OK with our histories and the fact we had some memorable moments with someone else, then why should we demand the same of ourselves. In my mind every guy should just assume they are not the biggest that their wives have ever had. The good news is it's just not that big a deal (again with the puns, not intentional I assure you). 

If you want to be your spouses best WORK TO BE THAT FOR THEM. Assuming your spouse is open to it they will love that and help you. And don't assume the size of your **** has anything to do with that. Hell, you hear stories from women who switch teams and get massive pleasure from their new lesbian lovers. **** if I am going to be beat out with some who doesn't even have the parts I do. We have all the parts that their girlfriends use plus one thing they don't. There is no excuse not to learn and work to be the best assuming your spouse is willing to let you be. Bottom line lean to use what you got and use it well. Sex is so much more then penis into vagina. Seriously with all the post on the internet about that (from women, half the time complaining about that) you would think that we get it.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

talesofthe-twofoldmother said:


> I hate to sound like a teenager here... but we had a saying growing up... and it is true for most women
> especially women who are with someone they love!
> 
> It's not the size of the boat that matters... it's in the motion of the ocean!
> ...


"Ladies have come up with all these expressions to reassure men. 'Oh, honey, it's not the size of the ship, it's the motion of the ocean!' That may be true, but it takes a long time to get to England in a rowboat." - Jeff Foxworthy


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



sokillme said:


> Look I agree, it's not right to be throwing that in any spouse's face. But on the other hand lots of guys refuse to believe that most women don't think bigger is better. I get that it's that way in porn but it's not that way for most women. We need to stop being so fragile about this.
> 
> Look at it this way what if you are a women with a small chest? Say you know that you husband dated a woman built like Selma Hayek? What do you do? What can you do? You suck it up and assume that that is a very small part (no pun intended) of his attraction to you and even more so the entire relationship. Let me ask you would chest size be the entirety to your attraction to a woman you were with? For me it's not.
> 
> ...


None of that changes my point. That being, a certain degree of sensitivity or empathy is needed when fielding the question. Exactly as you would hope a guy would have if a woman might ask about her breast size. I think complicating things is that there is so much more to a woman than a guy, breasts being just one part of the anatomy, one of many points of focus for a guy. Perhaps the wrong thing here is that guys believe there's only one main point of focus for the woman he's with.... his stick or log or stub or whatever it is. 

Another thing to consider- function changes with both situation and age. That increases anxiety for the guy. 

Just sayin', these topics should be dealt with more sensitivity than they often are, inside a relationship. It's fine to say it's dumb and stupid and shouldn't matter, but we're not robots, our emotions sometimes rule over logic. 

Summary? Perhaps guys should realize that women don't know how to answer that question with the empathy required. They just can't quite relate. Maybe some can, and some will get better over time. But in general we shouldn't expect a response that takes into account our own possible insecurities. If we're OK with that, then ask away. But to the woman, answering that question isn't personal, in the same way it is to the guy. It's likely just a datapoint with little meaning in the big picture. And hope she doesn't say "big" picture and set you off thinking she's comparing you to something bigger.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



Casual Observer said:


> None of that changes my point. That being, a certain degree of sensitivity or empathy is needed when fielding the question. Exactly as you would hope a guy would have if a woman might ask about her breast size. I think complicating things is that there is so much more to a woman than a guy, breasts being just one part of the anatomy, one of many points of focus for a guy. Perhaps the wrong thing here is that guys believe there's only one main point of focus for the woman he's with.... his stick or log or stub or whatever it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Same as saying whatever about boobs like @sokillme just pointed out (no pun intended). That’s just human respect...not male or female. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



Elizabeth001 said:


> Same as saying whatever about boobs like @sokillme just pointed out (no pun intended). That’s just human respect...not male or female.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Agreed. But my "point" is that we're spending too much time saying the question shouldn't be asked. The question *will*, frequently, be asked. The issue is how to answer it. Boobs or penis or whatever it is. It should be answered with sensitivity, not clinically.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



Casual Observer said:


> None of that changes my point. That being, a certain degree of sensitivity or empathy is needed when fielding the question. Exactly as you would hope a guy would have if a woman might ask about her breast size.


I agree with this. But if her answer is "I have seen or even had bigger but it wasn't better" I think guys should believe that. If you are worried about being the best, then work to be the best and stop assuming your sexual chemistry and performance is static like anything else in this world compete. 



> I think complicating things is that there is so much more to a woman than a guy, breasts being just one part of the anatomy, one of many points of focus for a guy. Perhaps the wrong thing here is that guys believe there's only one main point of focus for the woman he's with.... his stick or log or stub or whatever it is.


Look I am a straight man but I think women look at lots of stuff. I have sisters so maybe I have been privy to more inside info on this this but shoulders, biceps, square jaw are three things I can think of off the top of my head. I would like to hear from the ladies is it true that there is only one point of focus?

I also think it's a mistake to think that all guys are sensitive about this. I personally have never had any concern about this at all besides the usual first time jitters that happen as is normal the first time. I mean their are guys who are swingers so they can't be too worried. I don't think this is a universal guy insecurity, though I think a lot of men have this insecurity, and it should be said if you are towards the smaller side then I can see how it would be easier to worry about it. Here is the thing. Some men lose their hair, some men are short, some men are naturally shy. You have to work at all this stuff. Again if your wife is giving you a hard time about your size you should assume the problem is not your size it's your wife.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



sokillme said:


> Look at it this way what if you are a women with a small chest? Say you know that you husband dated a woman built like Selma Hayek? What do you do? What can you do? You suck it up and assume that that is a very small part (no pun intended) of his attraction to you and even more so the entire relationship. Let me ask you would chest size be the entirety to your attraction to a woman you were with? For me it's not.


And if you are with a woman who's ***** is as big as the gates of Gondor? When she used to sleep with:








???
What do you do? What can you do? You suck it up and assume that that is a large part of her attraction to Sauron and even more so to Morgath Bauglir. Let me ask you, would ramming speed be the entirety of her attraction to the man she is with. 0


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



sokillme said:


> Look at it this way what if you are a women with a small chest? Say you know that you husband dated a woman built like Selma Hayek? What do you do? What can you do? You suck it up and assume that that is a very small part (no pun intended) of his attraction to you and even more so the entire relationship. Let me ask you would chest size be the entirety to your attraction to a woman you were with? For me it's not.


And if you are with a woman who's ***** is as big as the gates of Gondor? When she used to sleep with:








???
What do you do? What can you do? You suck it up and assume that that is a large part of her attraction to Sauron and even more so to Morgoth Bauglir. Let me ask you, would ramming speed be the entirety of her attraction to the man she is with. 0


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FalCod said:


> She's been with you for 35 years. Let the past stay in the past.
> 
> I didn't save the link, but I remember reading something about gender differences in Google searches. For searches about penis size, they were virtually all done by males. Within reason, most women aren't that focused on size. It's a rare woman that wouldn't be more attracted to a confident, loving, and sexually giving man with smaller than average equipment vs a largely endowed man that didn't bring much else to the table. In other words, she's probably much less concerned about your size than about your lack of confidence. Focus on the latter - it is something that matters and something that you can change.


Absolutely. I didn't even see my husband's penis till we were married. I couldn't have cared less what size he was. SO many more important things to think about when searching for a marriage partner.

OP, you married a lady who had had multiple partners, so there will always men with larger penis's, hairier chests, bigger muscles etc etc that she has had sex with than you. If you didn't like that then maybe you should have dated ladies who had had few or no previous sexual partners. You have been married for such a long time to have let this be an issue.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



AandM said:


> And if you are with a woman who's ***** is as big as the gates of Gondor? When she used to sleep with:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LoL! You crack me up dude!>


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*

I think its more than that. There are a fair number of men who prefer smaller breasts. I'm on of them - giant emergency flotation devices are just not appealing to me. Similarly I'm sure that there are women who *prefer* smaller penises. Not "tolerate" but prefer. 

If a man is too large for the woman he is with, a lot of sexual activities can be uncomfortable or impossible. 

My usual comment on this is if you look at the most popular sex toys at sex shops that cater to women, the largest ones are not usually the best sellers 






sokillme said:


> snip
> Some of this goes to how men seem to idealize women. In this way (boob size, **** size) we are not that different. Yes there are size queens and breast men but most of us are pretty open to some variation.
> 
> snip


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*

I don't get why people ask some of these questions anyway. 

Asking your partner to compare you in any way to other people may leave them needing to lie. 






Casual Observer said:


> So I'm going to derail this very slightly and ask, do women really have a clue as to the consequences of their answers when a guy asks about size?
> 
> There is an assumption that it's "ok" to be truthful, and sometimes to expand beyond the immediate scope of the question.
> 
> ...


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



Casual Observer said:


> Agreed. But my "point" is that we're spending too much time saying the question shouldn't be asked. The question *will*, frequently, be asked. The issue is how to answer it. Boobs or penis or whatever it is. It should be answered with sensitivity, not clinically.


If men are going to ask then they also need to learn to accept the answer as true. The same goes for women about their breasts (or butt).

If a man asks a woman if she's been with bigger and she says "Yes, but I much prefer YOUR size" then believe that. Bigger is not always better and size isn't the only thing that matters. My wife has been with larger, hell she cheated with him, and I don't give a single **** at this point. I have to be careful not to hurt her, and there are some limitations on certain things, so of course she doesn't want it any larger.

Men need to stop throwing tantrums because someone else has a larger penis. Pouting about having a "small" penis has to be more unattractive than actually having a small penis.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

*"Men need to stop throwing tantrums because someone else has a larger penis. Pouting about having a "small" penis has to be more unattractive than actually having a small penis."*


I wish this quote could be 'stickied'. Truer words were never spoken.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

If insecurity is unattractive in a woman, it is doubly so in a man. If you feel inadequate, tell your therapist. Don't tell your wife. She already knows the truth.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*

I don't get it. Why does anyone ask the question? Its never occurred to me to ask. 

Asking about breasts is even sillier - they are visible, everyone can see roughly what percentile breast size someone has. (and to me its completely unimportant). 







Casual Observer said:


> Agreed. But my "point" is that we're spending too much time saying the question shouldn't be asked. The question *will*, frequently, be asked. The issue is how to answer it. Boobs or penis or whatever it is. It should be answered with sensitivity, not clinically.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



bobert said:


> My wife has been with larger, hell she cheated with him


So did you ask or did she just volunteer the penis size of previous lovers including her AP?:wink2:


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Too many people live their lives thinking in hypotheticals.

-All things being equal, 4" or 9"?

-All things being equal, B cup or DD cup?

-All things being equal, 2000sq ft house or 4000sq ft house?


All things are pretty much never equal. And more importantly many might actually prefer the smaller one in each example.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

*Re: Too much focus on the question- the answer is relevant*



ConanHub said:


> So did you ask or did she just volunteer the penis size of previous lovers including her AP?:wink2:


I asked every question in the book, and size was no exception. Apparently hearing it once wasn't enough because I asked several times. She wouldn't have told me if I hadn't demanded an answer. 

I only asked about the two AP's, not her previous partners.


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## vtx1800steve (May 9, 2019)

It has helped me to read all the responses. I realize it's not logical to let this bother me at this stage of my life, but it's not the logical part of my brain that is dealing with this issue. 

It's well said that pouting about it is most unattractive, a much bigger issue than the size itself. Confidence is much more attractive, I will work on that and make that my focus. 

I have read other posts from men about the same issue, but it has helped me to just put it out there that has freed me from some of the pressure I have felt. I appreciate the responses and tolerance of my asking a question that has been asked by so many others. 

My wife is the one that put the information out there about my being the smallest. It took a couple weeks before I asked more about it, I think that when she saw how it bothered me that she denied saying it and said she had no memory of the size of the other men she had been with. 

I had many self confidence issues when I was young, and when I met my life not just by my equipment size, but I was tall and skinny. I was so malnourished throughout my adolescence that it delayed my puberty. That also caused the social skills part of my brain to be less developed. 

I think everyone has some issues to deal with in life, and these are mine. I have succeeded in the fairly well, it's a little frustrating that I feel into this trap at this period of my life but stuff happens, then we get to deal with it. 

Thanks again for your input, I don't mean to put more of my issues out there.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I had a friend who dated a fella who she swore had a penis no bigger than her index finger. So, just for fun, I measured her finger - it was 3 inches long and 2 1/2 inches in circumference. That is what they call a micro penis, my friend.

Did she marry him? No. The bastard was constantly cheating on her. She could deal with the size of the penis but not his cheating.


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## talesofthe-twofoldmother (Dec 18, 2019)

lmao cracking up over @Conanhub's; Comments :smile2:


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

There are some things that, once seen, cannot be unseen. Some things that, once heard, cannot be unheard. Those will be different things to different people. The "need to know" could be a momentary weakness that might occur just once or twice, maybe never at all. It might not be the massive character flaw frequently assumed on TAM.

My guess is that there are many here who, at some point, felt a "need to know" and asked. And were told. And it was no big deal later on. 

But there are some who, once told, just can't seem to forget. Various triggers bring it back. 

I don't think, at the moment asked, that you can know which you will turn out to be. I just know that it's often asked simply out of curiosity, and the manner in which it's answered can make it a big thing or a little thing. So to speak. But I've said all this before, and it just comes across as exactly what it is. Me trying to justify my own feelings on the matter, and hoping there are others who can relate.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

vtx1800steve said:


> It has helped me to read all the responses. I realize it's not logical to let this bother me at this stage of my life, but it's not the logical part of my brain that is dealing with this issue.
> 
> It's well said that pouting about it is most unattractive, a much bigger issue than the size itself. Confidence is much more attractive, I will work on that and make that my focus.
> 
> ...


You want to know how to fix this. Get in the best shape in your life. Learn to dress and present yourself the best way possible. Ask people you trust if you don't know how. Pay attention to her feedback and if she comments on something emphasize that. If you don't know how research how to seduce your wife. Slowly implement those things over time to grow more confident. Be very giving when you make love to her and make it your mission to **** her brains out. You do that and you won't care what she said. 

Make it less about you being inadequate and make it more about you being the best person alive at pleasing your wife. The focus being on your wife and not you. In all these discussions about partners and who was the best (assuming the person you are with isn't a broken person) the one common denominator is that the best lovers were not judged by the size of their parts, how attractive they were, how tall they were or whatever else. The common denominator was that their partner was very into them, made them feel attractive and then was very giving in bed. That is the lesson.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> I had a friend who dated a fella who she swore had a penis no bigger than her index finger. So, just for fun, I measured her finger - it was 3 inches long and 2 1/2 inches in circumference. That is what they call a micro penis, my friend.
> 
> Did she marry him? No. The bastard was constantly cheating on her. She could deal with the size of the penis but not his cheating.


Nicccccce, well said..


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

sokillme said:


> You want to know how to fix this. Get in the best shape in your life. Learn to dress and present yourself the best way possible. Ask people you trust if you don't know how. Pay attention to her feedback and if she comments on something emphasize that. If you don't know how research how to seduce your wife. Slowly implement those things over time to grow more confident. Be very giving when you make love to her and make it your mission to **** her brains out. You do that and you won't care what she said.
> 
> Make it less about you being inadequate and make it more about you being the best person alive at pleasing your wife. The focus being on your wife and not you. In all these discussions about partners and who was the best (assuming the person you are with isn't a broken person) the one common denominator is that the best lovers were not judged by the size of their parts, how attractive they were, how tall they were or whatever else. The common denominator was that their partner was very into them, made them feel attractive and then was very giving in bed. That is the lesson.


Fabulous post.


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## jane jasmine (Dec 29, 2019)

Casual Observer, I agree.

Just saying confidence is number 1 skill anyone should have.

Without confidence no one can succeed, in no field of work or private life. Accepting who you are, and focusing on what you are good at is the key. Focusing on goals and actions to achieve them.


I have x paycheck, and he has x+n
I have x penis size, and he has x+n
I have x car, and he has x+n

Those are stupid things to think about.
Focus on yourself, not on others is what worked for me.

PS: I know a guy who went totally depressed, because i started to hate him for a specific action he took, and when he asked me about his penis (which was actually quite big) I told him "yeah it's ok, like 4th or 5th of the biggest I had", while it was actually the biggest. But I can be mean if a guy is mean. But a guy with confidence would never go into depression mode, a guy with confidence wouldn't even ask about size, which is insecure question anyway. And if asked, he wouldn't care about the answer. And confidence is the sexiest thing on a guy - at least for me.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

jane jasmine said:


> ...And confidence is the sexiest thing on a guy - at least for me.


But, as said, it takes two to tango, and confidence can be shattered, intentionally or unintentionally, by one's partner. Your partner is at least partly the person he or she is because of your actions & words help that person feel confident. Or not. I'm not saying you have to be walking on eggshells, always aware of every little thing you might say. But it's just not the case that we don't have some responsibility for the frame of mind of the person we've chosen to have a long term relationship to. 

One of the things I'd be looking for, if I were out in the market again, would be whether it seemed like me being me was helping build the self-esteem of the other person, or for some reason putting it at risk. After not that long a time, you learn how to approach various subjects, things the other person is sensitive about. It's really a pretty normal thing. Except for some reason, when it comes to "sex", issues with our partner are seen as signs of weakness and lack of confidence on their part, because they can't handle something you've said. We rarely see anyone posting "I wished I'd answered him or her differently, not lied, just been more sensitive about it."


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> But, as said, it takes two to tango, and confidence can be shattered, intentionally or unintentionally, by one's partner."


I feel for men who struggle here but I disagree.

I'm probably more confident than is reasonable and always have been. Bordering on arrogance but very likable if you can picture it.

No one can, or ever has, shattered my confidence and I have been in many interesting situations where it could have been a blow to the old ego.

I'm a grower and more than one lady couldn't get a rise out of me, I'm kind of picky, and commented on my apparent lack of size. I didn't miss a step or skip a beat and they still wanted me like crazy even though I didn't end up having sex with either of them.

I have also had a girlfriend break up with me just to try someone else on for size. She came back after one day, and one date, trying to get back with me desperately.

I walked away easily without worrying about myself for a second. She had the problems, not me.

Confidence, true confidence, comes from elsewhere. It isn't given from other people.

True confidence is very attractive and overcomes pretty much all shortcomings either in the penis or height department. Even out of shape men who are confident do well though I absolutely recommend being in shape.

Works for women too. I am not attracted to obese women but overweight women can lite my fires as long as they are "woman" shaped with good hygiene.

I have only bedded one heavy girl and she had so much confidence and knew what she wanted that she traveled hundreds of miles just to jump me and even asked me to marry her. She got me into bed though I wasn't ready for marriage. She did ask me after the deed to be clear.

Point being;. Confidence is absolutely a turn on and true confidence comes from within or maybe a higher power but not from other people.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Confidence, true confidence, comes from elsewhere. It isn't given from other people.
> 
> 
> Point being;. Confidence is absolutely a turn on and true confidence comes from within or maybe a higher power but not from other people.


#ConanHub This is speaking to me so much. The past 5 months have taught me this. Confidence changes everything, at least for me


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## maree (Jun 13, 2011)

To answer OPs original question... before meeting my husband I had a few relationships with other men, a few who were bigger than my husband. The sex wasn’t any better with those men, one of them wasn’t good in bed at all. Size is not everything at all, and I would rather be with a man who is smaller but a better lover not just physically but emotionally. I think you’re forgetting for most women it isn’t all physical when it comes to happiness in sex and marriage, for women it is more emotional.
I think there are some issues in your marriage, maybe insecurity based on the parameters of how you met each other but also in her faithfulness to your marriage. I think this is bringing out your own insecurities about yourself. Perhaps you wonder if she loved you when she married you or was just desperately seeking a better life... but she’s been with you for many years now and obviously wants to spare your feelings. I would not ask my wife things like this because you are only looking to get hurt. No matter what she says you won’t be happy with it.


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## Ed3n (Sep 25, 2018)

After over three decades together why do is matter what she saw prior to your (OP) marriage? Before marrying her had you been with other women? Were they tighter or less snug? She could be answering truthfully if she said she doesn't recall; considering it was 35 years ago.

When my husband (this happened before we were married) was stationed in Osan, S. Korea the local bars had "juicy girls" working in some of them. You could buy them a juice (they were not allowed to drink alcohol) for a ridiculous price, and they would spend time flirting, talking, and generally making you feel special. Sex could be had with some of the girls, but that was arranged differently, and discreetly. 

So, to say the OP married a prostitute may or may not be totally correct. Many of the girls my husband met never had sex with a customer. Many of them did. My husband only paid to have an occasional companion to talk to, and practice speaking his newly learned language skills. (He engaged in paying to play, just not with juicy girls) I just wanted to clarify that not all of the women who worked in places like that engaged in sex for money. 

OP, you really shouldn't put your wife in a position that she either has to lie to you, or possibly upset you with the truth. Not about this. Is your ego really so fragile that you are dredging up the distant pass over a couple of inches? Why? I am curious, what she your first?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

maree said:


> To answer OPs original question... before meeting my husband I had a few relationships with other men, a few who were bigger than my husband. The sex wasn’t any better with those men, one of them wasn’t good in bed at all. Size is not everything at all, and I would rather be with a man who is smaller but a better lover not just physically but emotionally. I think you’re forgetting for most women it isn’t all physical when it comes to happiness in sex and marriage, for women it is more emotional.
> I think there are some issues in your marriage, maybe insecurity based on the parameters of how you met each other but also in her faithfulness to your marriage. I think this is bringing out your own insecurities about yourself. Perhaps you wonder if she loved you when she married you or was just desperately seeking a better life... but she’s been with you for many years now and obviously wants to spare your feelings. I would not ask my wife things like this because you are only looking to get hurt. No matter what she says you won’t be happy with it.


A . man's point of view....


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Ed3n said:


> After over three decades together why do is matter what she saw prior to your (OP) marriage? Before marrying her had you been with other women? Were they tighter or less snug? She could be answering truthfully if she said she doesn't recall; considering it was 35 years ago.
> 
> When my husband (this happened before we were married) was stationed in Osan, S. Korea the local bars had "juicy girls" working in some of them. You could buy them a juice (they were not allowed to drink alcohol) for a ridiculous price, and they would spend time flirting, talking, and generally making you feel special. Sex could be had with some of the girls, but that was arranged differently, and discreetly.
> 
> ...


A womans point of view.....


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

vtx1800steve said:


> .....*I met my wife in the Philippines 35 years ago*. She was working in a bar as a bar girl, you can pay the bar to take them out, they act like your girlfriends and they will spend the night, several days if you like.
> 
> ......I was .......very naïve. I asked her to stop working in the bar until I returned to the U.S and could file for a fiancé visa.
> 
> ...


*First your time line has some interesting gaps in it that raise a number of questions as to the factual content of your post.* I am going to ignore that in my response and assume you are honest and sincere.

Yes you are very naïve!

As a bar girl, she was a sex worker. Sex work covers a broad spectrum. You were a client. Sit down and really think about what that means! For much of your early relationship you were not her boyfriend, you were one of many clients she depended upon financially. Sex workers get good at providing men what they need so they become regulars.

When you were stationed elsewhere, she still had to work to make ends meet. Most XXX-rated sex workers really don't care about the size of a client's penis (unless so big it hurts) they are concerned about how much money they can make from the client and if they will get a STI. Don't worry about the other men she had sex with or what she discussed with her fellow sex workers, that is all ancient (over 3 decades) history. Put it in the past and don't bring it up again.

She is probably an honorable sex worker in that she married you and has tried to be a good wife and not a gold digger who gets her green card and then divorces you. That is a plus. 

Let me repeat something, your wife was formerly a sex worker. That doesn't mean she is still a sex worker. That also doesn't mean she was depraved or enjoyed how she earned a living. You provided her with an opportunity out of 3rd world poverty and gave her a better life. She is probably very grateful for that and counts her blessings for the love you show her and opportunity she has now.

You fixation with penis size of sad. I suggest that either you get some individual consoling followed by some joint marriage counseling for both you and your W to help you get over you fixation with your penis size. Either that or work with your wife to embrace your insecurity and get into small penis humiliation fetish roll playing with your wife. It is obviously something that weighs heavily on your mind. 

As to military marriages to sex workers. Yes it happens, the military tries to provide screening to prevent it, but young men away from family and social support systems are vulnerable and easily exploited. Sometimes the "white knight on a shinning horse" syndrome is too strong for a young man to resist. Alternately, while you may think you saved the fair maiden, you may have been played by someone experienced in manipulating a man's emotions.

At any rate, you have the present situation to deal with. Put the past behind you and deal with your feelings and fears associated with the woman you call a "good wife." I strongly suggest both individual and marriage counseling.

Good luck.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Ed3n said:


> After over three decades together why do is matter what she saw prior to your (OP) marriage? Before marrying her had you been with other women? Were they tighter or less snug? She could be answering truthfully if she said she doesn't recall; considering it was 35 years ago.
> 
> *When my husband (this happened before we were married) was stationed in Osan, S. Korea the local bars had "juicy girls" working in some of them. You could buy them a juice (they were not allowed to drink alcohol) for a ridiculous price, and they would spend time flirting, talking, and generally making you feel special. Sex could be had with some of the girls, but that was arranged differently, and discreetly.
> 
> ...


Great post. I do have a slight disagreement. 

There is a broad spectrum of sex workers. Some once they get use to the money depending on the client can mover around that spectrum. 

There are prostitutes on one end, call them XXX-rated sex workers. There are strippers in the middle, call them R to X rated sex workers depending on how far they go. There are women who flirt for money (in WW2 movies women who would slow dance with a soldier for 25 cents, but not take any clothes off) R-rated sex workers. 

I have even read where some dominatrix who refuse to take their clothes off or to touch a client's genitals say they don't do sex work, but they do get paid a lot for sexual fetish/fantasy work. Again, this could be viewed by some as R-rated. Amateur porn or cam girls who masturbate for money or phone sex operators also make money as sex workers, but may not actually have sex with those that pay for their services.

The OP said that his wife worked as a bar girl who you could hire as your girlfriend for a night or a weekend. This strongly implies that she did more than flirt for money. That doesn't make her evil. That doesn't mean if in a nurturing environment she can't be a good person or a good wife. We all can make changes to ourselves and try to move on from our past.

I agree that the past is the past, he knew or should have know what he was getting into and he should not put his wife of many years in a no win or catch-22 position.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

vtx1800steve said:


> It has helped me to read all the responses. I realize it's not logical to let this bother me at this stage of my life, but it's not the logical part of my brain that is dealing with this issue.
> 
> My wife is the one that put the information out there about my being the smallest. It took a couple weeks before I asked more about it, I think that when she saw how it bothered me that she denied saying it and said she had no memory of the size of the other men she had been with.
> 
> ...


VTX, please know that some of us hear what you are saying and can relate. Everyone here has issues of some sort. Unfortunately, many well intentioned people will minimize the hurt we feel over situations that they feel "just shouldn't bother you." Penis size discussions are often mocked, ridiculed, or at least minimized. That's unfortunate. Some men place a lot of their self worth value in the size of their penises. Why? You will read a lot of reasons, but I've never read one that I thought was totally accurate. Maybe they were and I just didn't realize it. 

TAM is a fantastic forum with some posters who have marvelous views and understandings of life. There are also some people here who are slightly above the troll level. The mods do a great job of keeping a check on these people, but some still get through. I've left one or two other forums because a poster would post a most sincere, heartfelt, excruciatingly personal issue only to be piled on by some of the regular posters. Fortunately I haven't been kicked out of one yet. I have some sensitive issues I've never posted about because doing so would likely illicit responses from some regulars who would say, "Why do you care?", "What difference does it make?", "Get over it.". Not only are those responses hurtful, they can exacerbate the problem. What if your best friend told you a most intimate secret about a problem she has, and you just laughed? It would and should be the end of the friendship.

A lot of people who don't mean to be are judgmental. Others comment as experts on matters they've never experienced personally and likely do not have an understanding of. It takes a while to read and understand a forum and its posters to try to find the compassion, help, and understanding you're seeking. I hope you can find it here. A lot of the right people are here. 

The ultimate penis size thread has probably not been written. Saying, "but women don't care about size" may be helpful, but it doesn't address the concern and pain that some men have. It takes a lot of understanding to get past the stereotypes and expectations that men have been exposed to over the years. Here's an example that has stuck to me. Let me start by saying that this comment happened in a professional office by people who do not stand around talking about these things, contrary to how it may seem. My admin was upset about breaking up with her long-time boyfriend. I gave her an audience and tried to cheer her up a little. After her attitude improved in 10 minutes or so, she said, "I have to tell you something. My boyfriend has a VERY large penis. It's going to be hard to go from steak back to hamburger."

When a guy hears something like that, the first thought is probably, "If size doesn't matter, why is she inappropriately bringing it up in this discussion?" The conversation stopped at that point. 

Some women obsess over their breast sizes, their stomach sizes, their butt sizes, and other things. Some men obsess over their six packs, biceps, and...penis sizes. Who are we to say, "Get over it"? 

I'll probably get piled on for this comment, but I hope not. I hope one day to be able to share some of my hangups that several people here can answer better than a trained professional could answer. Int the mean time, I'll keep looking for the ultimate penis size thread where someone will say something that finally explains why men are so consumed with the sizes of their penises. Instead of, "Get over it", let's get to "Let's understand it." I don't have the answer.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

I think a bunch of folks need to re-read the OP's original post and stop accusing him of "asking". He didn't ask his wife, she threw it out there after drinking. Since he didn't ask, it really isn't abnormal that he is bothered by it. If it was me I'd be wondering why she decided to blurt it out now. Something got her thinking.

@vtx1800steve she is definitely blowing smoke up your ass about not remembering.





ConanHub said:


> I feel for men who struggle here but I disagree.
> 
> I'm probably more confident than is reasonable and always have been. * Bordering on arrogance* but very likable if you can picture it.


 Bordering on? >:grin2:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> VTX, please know that some of us hear what you are saying and can relate. Everyone here has issues of some sort. Unfortunately, many well intentioned people will minimize the hurt we feel over situations that they feel "just shouldn't bother you." Penis size discussions are often mocked, ridiculed, or at least minimized. That's unfortunate. Some men place a lot of their self worth value in the size of their penises. Why? You will read a lot of reasons, but I've never read one that I thought was totally accurate. Maybe they were and I just didn't realize it.
> 
> TAM is a fantastic forum with some posters who have marvelous views and understandings of life. There are also some people here who are slightly above the troll level. The mods do a great job of keeping a check on these people, but some still get through. I've left one or two other forums because a poster would post a most sincere, heartfelt, excruciatingly personal issue only to be piled on by some of the regular posters. Fortunately I haven't been kicked out of one yet. I have some sensitive issues I've never posted about because doing so would likely illicit responses from some regulars who would say, "Why do you care?", "What difference does it make?", "Get over it.". Not only are those responses hurtful, they can exacerbate the problem. What if your best friend told you a most intimate secret about a problem she has, and you just laughed? It would and should be the end of the friendship.
> 
> ...


 @Sfort you are clearly a very sweet and empathetic person. I understand what you are saying.

I have a bit of a different take on this. In my experience, men seem to have a double standard on this issue. The double standard is: Never ever tell a man anything about your preferences for size or anything at all about any penis other than his, but we men will talk all the time about every part of a woman’s body we love, we will watch porn whether you like it or not, and we constantly compare you to other women.

I have decided for myself to just ignore the double standard and talk about my preferences the same way men do. Men can then ignore me or think I’m a heartless ***** or think whatever they want about it. 

I don’t think men are trying to hurt women’s feelings by talking about other beautiful women or watching porn or comparing other women. I think they are just being honest about how they feel and we all know that men generally will always be attracted to lots and lots of women. Similarly, I’m not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings, I’m just being true to my own feelings. 

No man has any qualms about talking about what kind of boobs or ass they are most attracted to and I have no qualms about talking about penis preferences. But when I do it there is an implied feeling that I shouldn’t say anything, whereas men say these things and it’s implied women should just understand that’s how men are. I don’t see men going out of their way to protect women’s feelings about this, other than a married man not saying certain things directly to his wife. Other than in that case, men really don’t seem to have any filter about hot women. I don’t have a filter anymore either. I feel better being true to myself than what I felt when I would go out of my way to protect men’s feelings while they did not protect mine.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Sfort said:


> Saying, "but women don't care about size" may be helpful
> 
> "I have to tell you something. My boyfriend has a VERY large penis. It's going to be hard to go from steak back to hamburger."


Saying "women don't care" is not helpful at all. Especially in light of the second quote. Many of us have been declared "hamburger" by women we loved and cared about deeply. Some of us still are.

Just yesterday, we made the dreaded trip to my granddaughter's confirmation party. I had to listen to my wife's declarations of how "lucky" our daughter-in-law is (to be married to our son who is a regional VP of his company) and how our grandson was going to grow up to be just like his dad. Made me feel just like the mediocre POS I am.

These are the reasons most of us remain unconvinced that "size doesn't matter". In every other aspect of life, size DOES matter.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sorry about the triple post, my screen locked up when I hit submit. @Lila or other mod, can you delete two of my above duplicate posts for me?


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

If your advice includes the idea that someone should be obligated to lie, then that's ridiculous.

A woman is responsible to lie when a man asks her a queztion???

Then if she does, she still loses because now she's a liar.

I'm aghast.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

This one? Still, or again, or whatever?

Let everyone heft in ( heh! ), sticky it, and shut the damn thing down. Anyone asks abuot whether size matters, refer him, rem, shey shem therm whatever, to the sticky, and ask them to kindly STFU.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

justlistening said:


> If your advice includes the idea that someone should be obligated to lie, then that's ridiculous.
> 
> A woman is responsible to lie when a man asks her a queztion???
> 
> ...


As a woman, I’ve been advised by other women since a very young age to never ever discuss preferences with men because their egos can’t handle it. When I was young, I followed this advice. Then over time as I noticed that no man ever did anything to protect MY ego, I abandoned this self censoring and now am honest. Not brutally honest, just honest. Men still may be brutally honest to me but I still can’t bring myself to be brutally honest with them. 

A guy I was being intimate with once told me all about how he loves porn and strippers and exactly why. Then one time randomly he mentioned that being with a guy who has an abnormally large **** (which he didn’t) must be disappointing to women because she can’t take it all anyway. In that case I just smiled and said yeah that must be frustrating. In my head I was thinking if I could only be as uncaring about your feelings as you have been about mine I would tell you all about how having a huge **** is amazing and that working up to being able to take it all is fun.

But since I still wanted to get laid, I didn’t say that. If he had just been a guy friend, I would have definitely said the truth. I knew I would never see him again if I had been honest. Even though his **** was great and I had no complaints, I knew for sure that this would not matter and that I couldn’t be honest if I ever wanted to see his **** again.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> @Sfort you are clearly a very sweet and empathetic person. I understand what you are saying.
> 
> I have a bit of a different take on this. In my experience, men seem to have a double standard on this issue. The double standard is: Never ever tell a man anything about your preferences for size or anything at all about any penis other than his, but we men will talk all the time about every part of a woman’s body we love, we will watch porn whether you like it or not, and we constantly compare you to other women.
> 
> ...



I’m sorry you’re feelings weren’t protected, and, apparently you have been hurt by things some men have said.

But, FWIW, I think you are overgeneralizing about men. I would have qualms about talking about the kind of boobs or ass I’m most attracted to, and I’m fairly confident other men I know would too. The notion women “should just understand that’s how men are” does not compute for me on multiple levels.

Say what you want, for whatever reasons you want. But, IMHO it’s unfortunate when words of thoughtless and insensitive people have influence of any kind.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > @Sfort you are clearly a very sweet and empathetic person. I understand what you are saying.
> ...


I could start a thread about boob or ass preference or who do you think the hottest new movie star or model is in the men’s lounge right now and plenty of men will happily chime in along with pictures of their favorite hotties. In fact several threads like that have already been done.

Sorry but it’s not just an anomaly. Many men have no problems telling anyone who will listen about who they think is hot.

Not saying they will say this to their wives faces. But wives do know that this is how men feel.

Also, what’s wrong with that? Who cares who we think is attractive? It’s human nature.

My point is that it is truly human nature, not just men. Women have their preferences and know what we think is hot also. We just have been conditioned to not speak of it whereas men are conditioned to feel entitled to speaking about it.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> I would tell you all about how having a huge **** is amazing and that working up to being able to take it all is fun.


Men have trouble believing women when they say size doesn't matter because all too often, a statement like this one shows up. Translation: Women lie about size to protect the feelings of their male partner, but when they are brutally honest, they consider a huge **** to be "amazing and that working up to being able to take it all is fun." 

I'm not saying I agree, and thank you for your honest, but I can tell you what some men would think.

By the way, I just read a research article this week, by chance, that said that 80% of men are unsatisfied with the size of their penises. I doubt they were upset that they were too large. Of course, being dissatisfied is not the same thing as being depressed or suicidal. Few women I know are 100% satisfied with their bodies. It's just life.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I would tell you all about how having a huge **** is amazing and that working up to being able to take it all is fun.
> ...


Yes, it’s just life. As many women are not happy completely with their bodies, so are many men not completely happy with their bodies.

I’m sorry but we all have to deal with our own insecurities. 

What I have realized for myself is that although I may not have a perfect body, men I’ve been with have no complaints either if we have a great sex life. I think men need to work on feeling the same. Even if I’m not perfect he’s perfectly happy with me.

At the same time, that man will still look at porn and any hot woman he sees anywhere on the street. And I do the same.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There is a lot of variation. 

You are right about some men, but at least personally, I've never had a man tell me what he likes about women, nor have I ever told anyone. I don't happen to like large boobs, though of course some men do. 

While it is probably a very untrustworthy source, various studies of the most popular search terms on porn sites are not what you would expect. 

Similarly while some women want very large men (nothing wrong with that), others really do not and find larger than some size to be uncomfortable. 


Overall it might actually be better if everyone were honest, and everyone believed what their partners said. There may be a lot of cases where people feel insecure because they *think* their partner wants something (well endowed, large breasts etc), when that isn't actually the case. 

There may be a lot of people feeling insecure for entirely the wrong reasons. 







Faithful Wife said:


> I could start a thread about boob or ass preference or who do you think the hottest new movie star or model is in the men’s lounge right now and plenty of men will happily chime in along with pictures of their favorite hotties. In fact several threads like that have already been done.
> 
> Sorry but it’s not just an anomaly. Many men have no problems telling anyone who will listen about who they think is hot.
> 
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

uhtred said:


> There is a lot of variation.
> 
> You are right about some men, but at least personally, I've never had a man tell me what he likes about women, nor have I ever told anyone. I don't happen to like large boobs, though of course some men do.
> 
> ...


I’m surprised you have never had another man tell you what he’s into. I’ve had many male friends throughout my life talk all about sex and women’s bodies and porn and on and on. Not saying this was a bad thing as it was friends being open with each other and I’m open about that stuff also.

Maybe men are tight lipped around someone who seems classy like you, or you just have ultra classy friends who don’t talk like that.

But surely you’ve seen one of the many threads in the men’s section about who is hot, what preferences do you have, etc and all the men answering and posting pictures? Again I’m not saying this is bad I’m just saying I don’t understand how you could be missing this fact. It happens all the time.

Women are not saints and we talk too. Just that we are discouraged from saying things that will hurt men’s egos (even men who are not our SO) while men are encouraged to openly discuss these things regardless of who may be listening. Again most men know not to say certain things to their own wife’s face, but other than that they are free to go on and on about how hot women are in detail. Men here do it all the time.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

@uhtred here’s an example of the entitlement to discuss women’s bodies I just saw in the news today. The guy is going to get his hand slapped, but only because this was said publicly and the organization doesn’t want to condone it or they will face a backlash. Yet if he said it privately to some other men they all would have just chuckled.

You really aren’t aware that this happens all the time?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ned-inappropriate-comments-womens-gymnastics/


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I would tell you all about how having a huge **** is amazing and that working up to being able to take it all is fun.
> ...


With respect, your insecurity is about YOU, not the statement a woman you don't know makes.

Honestly, this idea that women are responsible for the self esteem of the male gender comes off as whiny, weak, and bitter.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

justlistening said:


> With respect, your insecurity is about YOU, not the statement a woman you don't know makes.


So you have 26 posts and already know who I am? You're good!


> Honestly, this idea that women are responsible for the self esteem of the male gender comes off as whiny, weak, and bitter.


No one said that here, but you're welcome to post whatever you wish, I guess.


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

Sfort said:


> justlistening said:
> 
> 
> > With respect, your insecurity is about YOU, not the statement a woman you don't know makes.
> ...


At least one poster has stated that a woman is obligated to lie to spare a man's feelings. Three posters have stated that the reason men are insecure is because of women. You just said that exact thing to Faithful Wife.

You're willing to disrupt a 35 year marriage in which YOU have already cheated because of a tipsy statement from your wife.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

justlistening said:


> You're willing to disrupt a 35 year marriage in which YOU have already cheated because of a tipsy statement from your wife.


You have me confused with someone. I've never cheated in my marriage, and I'm not willing to disrupt it.


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

Sfort said:


> justlistening said:
> 
> 
> > You're willing to disrupt a 35 year marriage in which YOU have already cheated because of a tipsy statement from your wife.
> ...


Oops, you are exactly right. I'm sorry. I'm confusing stories. I'm sorry.

Are you the one who wants to give his wife a polygraph about penis size?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

justlistening said:


> Oops, you are exactly right. I'm sorry. I'm confusing stories. I'm sorry.


No problem. I do it all the time.


> Are you the one who wants to give his wife a polygraph about penis size?


Nope. I'm the person who asked whether anyone had actually followed up on a recommendation from this site to give their SO a polygraph test. I'm too cheap to pay $600 for one since I don't trust them.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

To be clear about it, I believe that any woman who compares your penis with another's, and finds you wanting, is puttng you down. She says it for a reason, and its not to compliment you.
Its a lot like a man who tells a woman that her ass is bigger than someone else's. The revelation is not just for information only.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

There's another possibility, too. Since most women don't dwell on size as much as men do, it's possible that a woman could mention a larger one as part of a conversation with no ill intent intended. Have you ever been in a conversation, made a comment, and someone wells up and leaves the room? I've seen it happen several times caused by comments that the speaker thought was perfectly innocent but in fact cut the other person to the core. Size can be such an issue in a committed relationship. The woman thinks it's no big deal (no pun intended) but the man is affected tremendously.

What's so curious about the size argument is that the overwhelmingly majority of men who are dissatisfied enough with their size to seek medical help (none available) are actually in the normal range. 

Here's a useless tidbit of information. Gaining weight makes a man seem smaller. In fact, every 30 pounds reduces his apparent size by one inch.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@MJJEAN said in another thread,


> Penis size? Definitely can matter, but assuming average or above average, it's really more the skill of the lover. For example, I've had a few men who were porn star material except they had no clue how to use the equipment *they were blessed with*.


Here we go with mixed signals again. If size doesn't matter or at least doesn't matter as much as men think it should, why do women (at least MJJEAN) consider a monster **** to be a "blessing"? 

(If you don't like size threads, you probably shouldn't be reading this one.) :smile2:


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Sometimes being small is what the woman prefers. My wife told our sex therapist that sex with me was the best ever. Took quite a while for the MC and me to realize what my wife meant was that I was so small, it was easier to ignore what I was doing "down there".

Hey, I never said what she preferred was healthy or desirable.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think there are a lot of social sub-groups with quite different behavior. My friends very rarely talk about sex in a specific way. They may talk about people who are attractive (typically movie star types) but not in body part sort of way. Just different cultural groups.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it doesn't happen around me. 

I probably don't pay attention to that sort of thread because for me, beauty isn't about body parts and dimensions, its an overall thing. What color do you like most in the Mona Lisa isn't a question that makes sense to me.

The above isn't to say that I don't have preferences, just that they are not simple to describe. 

I don't know how common talking about women or men's body parts is - even if it were a minority of people who did it, it could seem like a lot if they did it frequenntly . 



Faithful Wife said:


> I’m surprised you have never had another man tell you what he’s into. I’ve had many male friends throughout my life talk all about sex and women’s bodies and porn and on and on. Not saying this was a bad thing as it was friends being open with each other and I’m open about that stuff also.
> 
> Maybe men are tight lipped around someone who seems classy like you, or you just have ultra classy friends who don’t talk like that.
> 
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

That's unfortunate. 

OTOH, there are some women who really do find large to be uncomfortable. In these discussions, I often point out that if you look at sex shops that mostly cater to women, their best selling toys are usually not huge. 




Holdingontoit said:


> Sometimes being small is what the woman prefers. My wife told our sex therapist that sex with me was the best ever. Took quite a while for the MC and me to realize what my wife meant was that I was so small, it was easier to ignore what I was doing "down there".
> 
> Hey, I never said what she preferred was healthy or desirable.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It happens, just not around me. I probably terrify people too much. >



Faithful Wife said:


> @uhtred here’s an example of the entitlement to discuss women’s bodies I just saw in the news today. The guy is going to get his hand slapped, but only because this was said publicly and the organization doesn’t want to condone it or they will face a backlash. Yet if he said it privately to some other men they all would have just chuckled.
> 
> You really aren’t aware that this happens all the time?
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ned-inappropriate-comments-womens-gymnastics/


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> @MJJEAN said in another thread,
> 
> 
> > Penis size? Definitely can matter, but assuming average or above average, it's really more the skill of the lover. For example, I've had a few men who were porn star material except they had no clue how to use the equipment *they were blessed with*.
> ...


Yes @Sfort that’s what we say, what he was blessed with.

In the same way some men may talk about their wife’s beautiful breasts that she was blessed with but it’s a shame she won’t let him touch them.

Yes that’s the kinds of things we say. Men and women both. But if a man talks about beautiful breasts on one woman, should other women listening to him feel insecure if she doesn’t have beautiful breasts?

To me you are still so hyper focused on how MEN feel. 

I’m sorry but men’s feelings are not more important than women’s feelings. 

If a man was told he cannot talk about the breasts his ex or wife or girlfriend is blessed with because it may make other women feel insecure he would describe it that way, he would laugh in your face. He would say why is it my problem what another woman would feel I’m just talking about my own life. 

Do you see that IMO you are just reinforcing the double standard? Men can talk but women must not. How dare women feel certain men were blessed with a beautiful penis while of course all men are fully aware of all of the beautiful parts of women’s bodies and will talk about them. 

I’m sorry, we are allowed to say what we feel. I’m sorry if that sends some men reeling. But men say what they feel all the time.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@Faithful Wife, you seem to write as if we disagree. I don't think we disagree on very much at all. Just because I'm focusing on one issue (male insecurity), that doesn't mean that women can't have similar issues. Of course they can. I have two daughters. One of them has large breasts. At some points in her life she started getting a little too proud of them. I told her that it was not classy to brag about her boobs. Some women with smaller breasts don't want to hear it. As far as what men say and do, they're typically a bunch of dogs. When they have an erection, the blood drains from their brains, and they lose the ability to think logically.

My post was hyper focused on how MEN feel. That was the purpose of my post. I'm happy to participate in threads that focus on how WOMEN feel. In fact, I've started threads in the past to try to understand how women feel. The problem I have is that I ask about women's feelings on a particular topic, and if I get a reply, it's often on the order of, women can't say what they feel for fear of injuring a man's ego. Well, that's not helpful. Again, I try to understand how women feel that size is not an object of concern, but a large one is a blessing? 

Yes. I'm confused. Enlighten me. I'm a fan.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> @Faithful Wife, you seem to write as if we disagree. I don't think we disagree on very much at all. Just because I'm focusing on one issue (male insecurity), that doesn't mean that women can't have similar issues. Of course they can. I have two daughters. One of them has large breasts. At some points in her life she started getting a little too proud of them. I told her that it was not classy to brag about her boobs. Some women with smaller breasts don't want to hear it. As far as what men say and do, they're typically a bunch of dogs. When they have an erection, the blood drains from their brains, and they lose the ability to think logically.
> 
> My post was hyper focused on how MEN feel. That was the purpose of my post. I'm happy to participate in threads that focus on how WOMEN feel. In fact, I've started threads in the past to try to understand how women feel. The problem I have is that I ask about women's feelings on a particular topic, and if I get a reply, it's often on the order of, women can't say what they feel for fear of injuring a man's ego. Well, that's not helpful. Again, I try to understand how women feel that size is not an object of concern, but a large one is a blessing?
> 
> Yes. I'm confused. Enlighten me. I'm a fan.


It’s the same as how men feel certain breasts or other parts of a woman can be a blessing, but they will still love their own woman even if she isn’t blessed in that way. How is that confusing? 

Size is a concern for some men and it’s a concern for some women. Some men and women will not partner with someone who isn’t blessed in those ways. Some have preferences so deep that they will not be with anyone who doesn’t have that. 

Whereas for most men and women, they may have a preference but it will not stop them from partnering with someone who doesn’t have that blessing. Some will be happy with what their partner has even if not their top preferences.

So a woman may say sure it would be great to have a beautiful large penis but my mans is fine. And a man may say sure it would be great to have some beautiful perfect breasts but my woman’s are fine.

Where is the confusion?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> Where is the confusion?


The confusion occurs when, for example, a woman gets all pissed off about a man commenting about big boobs, but then the woman refers to her former sex partner with a large penis as "blessed". It seems to me to be the same double standard you're discussing. Why can a woman get pissed about a man calling out the "well endowed" attributes of another woman that she may not have, but a man can't get pissed about a woman calling out the "well endowed" attributes of a man that he may not have. 

Men who call out big boobs in the presence of someone who doesn't them are insensitive. Women who call out big penises in the presence of someone who doesn't have one are insensitive. 

Can't we all just get along?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> The confusion occurs when, for example, a woman gets all pissed off about a man commenting about big boobs, but then the woman refers to her former sex partner with a large penis as "blessed". It seems to me to be the same double standard you're discussing. Why can a woman get pissed about a man calling out the "well endowed" attributes of another woman that she may not have, but a man can't get pissed about a woman calling out the "well endowed" attributes of a man that he may not have.
> 
> Men who call out big boobs in the presence of someone who doesn't them are insensitive. Women who call out big penises in the presence of someone who doesn't have one are insensitive.
> 
> Can't we all just get along?


Yes, sure in your first example that woman is being a hypocrite. But that’s just one hypothetical example. 

However if we are talking about just the fact that a rando man or woman may talk about their preferences without regard to potential insecurity in other randos, I don’t think we owe randos such protection. If men at TAM talk about beautiful women it certainly doesn’t make me feel insecure. If I talk about beautiful men, I don’t care if it makes men at TAM insecure. It’s not my job to protect their feelings and not their job to protect mine. 

To me the way we can get along is to not be concerned with what randos think or feel and to take responsibility for our own insecurities and not blame them on someone else.

In my experience and what I’ve seen in most couples, people do not state this kind of preference directly to their partner.

You quoted what MMJEAN said to a bunch of randos at TAM about an experience she had with a previous guy who was blessed, and you implied that there was something wrong with her saying this and that she should be sensitive to the male TAM readers potential insecurities. That makes no sense to me. What she experienced she is free to talk about and what others feel about what a stranger said about her own life is irrelevant.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> You quoted what MMJEAN said to a bunch of randos at TAM about an experience she had with a previous guy who was blessed, and you implied that there was something wrong with her saying this and that she should be sensitive to the male TAM readers potential insecurities. That makes no sense to me. What she experienced she is free to talk about and what others feel about what a stranger said about her own life is irrelevant.


This is where your opinion and mine are not in alignment. I really don't imply. I say. I don't think there is anything wrong with what she said. I am not saying that she needs to be sensitive to male securities. The only point I was making is in response to other posters, mostly women, who don't understand why so many men or so concerned over an issue that's not really an issue. I understand. Maybe a better way of making my point is to say that some of these things women (and men) say are triggers. They have a right to say them, and they will. After all, who really gives a crap what other people feel? :smile2:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> This is where your opinion and mine are not in alignment. I really don't imply. I say. I don't think there is anything wrong with what she said. I am not saying that she needs to be sensitive to male securities. The only point I was making is in response to other posters, mostly women, who don't understand why so many men or so concerned over an issue that's not really an issue. I understand. Maybe a better way of making my point is to say that some of these things women (and men) say are triggers. They have a right to say them, and they will. After all, who really gives a crap what other people feel? :smile2:


Again, do you think men at TAM should refrain talking about hot models and movie stars because this might trigger some female readers insecurities? 

If we tried to get them to give a crap about how women at TAM who they do not know, will never meet and will never partner with feel, the men would laugh in our faces.

How about starting a new thread in the men’s section and advise men that their words about hot women may trigger some of the women here and see what they say.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Again, do you think men at TAM should refrain talking about hot models and movie stars because this might trigger some female readers insecurities?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ya mean like all the “fake” or “plastic” boob comments lately and how disgusting they are? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> Again, do you think men at TAM should refrain talking about hot models and movie stars because this might trigger some female readers insecurities?


No. If I don't want to hear what people have to say, I can skip the thread or TAM in full. It's my choice. Plus, I never tell people what to say (unless they ask.) 



> If we tried to get them to give a crap about how women at TAM who they do not know, will never meet and will never partner with feel, the men would laugh in our faces.


Probably. That doesn't bother me. Not only will I never be friends with them, I will never even know their names. What they say is of no consequence to me. I post here to test my theories and to learn what other people are willing to share. 



> How about starting a new thread in the men’s section and advise men that their words about hot women may trigger some of the women here and see what they say.


I could do that, but I can tell you what they'd say, just like you can. Plus, they can read it here if they're interested. I'm not even telling women that they shouldn't say things that trigger men. It's their choice, not mine. If men and women don't want to be triggered, avoid the people who can trigger you.

This is an online forum open to everyone who behaves. I learn a lot here. I don't come here to try to change anyone's behavior, except my own. It's a great resource to be able to hear you and several others share the most intimate details of your lives without having to give up your identities or betraying the confidences of the other people in your lives. I really appreciate your participation.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks @Sfort you are a great new addition to TAM. You’re clearly very sweet and smart and are good at discussing delicate topics.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> If a man was told he cannot talk about the breasts his ex or wife or girlfriend is blessed with because it may make other women feel insecure he would describe it that way, he would laugh in your face. He would say why is it my problem what another woman would feel I’m just talking about my own life.


Weird.

I wouldn't talk about my wife's breasts with anyone, under any circumstances.

It's possible, in some very limited circumstances, that I would mention my ex-wife's nice breasts (small group of people, talking about this topic exactly, absolutely no chance of my wife ever hearing about it).

I would never mention great breasts within ear-shot of my wife's flat chested friend.

If I were ever comment on the importance of breasts in the company of women who might be self conscious about their small breasts, I would downplay it (yes, even on the internet).

I may comment to a male friend about some random woman's breasts, but not with earshot of a woman.

I *would* tell my wife that her breasts are best I've ever been in close contact with (If it weren't plausibly true, I wouldn't mention it).

Where do you meet these men?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > If a man was told he cannot talk about the breasts his ex or wife or girlfriend is blessed with because it may make other women feel insecure he would describe it that way, he would laugh in your face. He would say why is it my problem what another woman would feel I’m just talking about my own life.
> ...


I already said many times that men and women don’t typically say these things to their partners faces. 

I’m talking about such as at TAM. People are free to discuss what they want here and they certainly do.

I’ve read many men at TAM say that they love their wife’s imperfect breasts and that they have no complaints. Then the same man may talk separately about how so and so movie Star is hot, or their one ex who was built like a playboy bunny.

And I have no issues with them doing this.

I was pointing out that we should not have to censor ourselves here, and that we can be with an imperfect lover yet still love them and at the same time still appreciate other beautiful people and bodies and body parts.

So one more time as I have said on almost every one of these posts....most men and women do not talk like this TO their spouse because they know it may hurt their feelings. Yet they are free to talk about it in other settings, such as talking about it at TAM.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I already said many times that men and women don’t typically say these things to their partners faces.


5 of the six statements I made did not relate to what I would say to my partner.

One did relate to what I would say to strangers on the internet.

I guess if a woman wondered if men cared about women being grossly obese, I'd have to point out that it's almost certainly going to be a significant issue. Not doing so would be unfair; just like telling a man with a micro-penis that it's not going to be an issue would be misleading.

But, as far as breast size (which something CAN be done about) and penises at the low end of the normal range (which nothing can be done about) where there's quite a bit of difference in opposite sex preferences, I don't see the point in triggering anyone, no matter how anonymous.

But, I'm not proposing that it should be banned or anything. It *IS* the internet.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I already said many times that men and women don’t typically say these things to their partners faces.
> ...


We have men talking quite a bit about their preferences for boobs, butts, legs, tall or short, athletic or softer, Amazon or petite, on and on.

I don’t see women trying to shame the men into “not triggering us”.

Maybe if I did see that happening and if men actually did care about that, I could see your point.

I have no triggers about what TAM men are attracted to so I would never try to shut them down or shame them. It’s always a surprise to me though when men want me to censor myself so that a stranger on TAM may avoid being triggered. 

I’m sorry if men do get triggered and some women maybe get triggered about what men say here. Yet I don’t feel our individual triggers are anyone else’s problem. 

I do have triggers even though they aren’t set off at TAM. I make it my own responsibility to avoid things that trigger me, I don’t blame people who sincerely have no idea I’m even reading them for triggering me. It’s not their fault and they don’t owe me censoring themselves.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Average penis length is about 1.3-1.5 inches below the preferred length; girth is a little closer, with the average girth preference being only about .25-.5 inches bigger. (easy google search)

So does it matter? Yes but to what degree is personal. But something really interesting I found, the preferred length and girth for casual ONS encounters increases slightly. Hmmmh...I think that is supremely telling. (search the guardian "sizing up" can't post cites from work computer)

As it pertains to comparing penis size to say breast size, really I think the two body parts aren't a valid comparison anyways. In my mind, penis size is closer to comparing vaginal tightness (or cuteness or whatever...some characteristic of a vagina that can't be changed or can only really be judged once you are getting intimate). Nor have I ever heard a women describe a smaller, or even average penis, as blessed, where I have heard men praise and adore below average size breast (as a preference not simply cause they loved the bearer of the breast). Any women out there prefer below average/micro penises? Nor have I ever heard a women describe a smaller, or even average penis, as blessed; again pretty telling. Average dildo size is also bigger than the average actual size, even accounting for the part of the device not being inserted. 

Not sure what my point is except to say that I know it matters, but I guess what are us guys going to do about it? Personally I wish I was a little longer; that's more pragmatic, so that certain positions were easier or even possible. I've only been with my wife and she with me so it isn't really an issue by any means.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

cashcratebob said:


> Any women out there prefer below average/micro penises? Nor have I ever heard a women describe a smaller, or even average penis, as blessed; again pretty telling.


Show of hand from the women...who likes the micro penis?


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

cashcratebob said:


> Average penis length is about 1.3-1.5 inches below the preferred length; girth is a little closer, with the average girth preference being only about .25-.5 inches bigger. (easy google search)
> 
> So does it matter? Yes but to what degree is personal. But something really interesting I found, the preferred length and girth for casual ONS encounters increases slightly. Hmmmh...I think that is supremely telling. (search the guardian "sizing up" can't post cites from work computer)
> 
> ...


I personally love boobs and my preference is small perky ones. I also love peens and my preference is thick longer ones. 

At the same time, I can still love larger boobs or average peens and be perfectly happy with them.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> cashcratebob said:
> 
> 
> > Any women out there prefer below average/micro penises? Nor have I ever heard a women describe a smaller, or even average penis, as blessed; again pretty telling.
> ...


How about asking men the same question.

When looking for guy-girl porn, do you prefer that the dude has a micro penis? There is porn like that so you do have that choice.

Show of hands?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> How about asking men the same question.
> 
> When looking for guy-girl porn, do you prefer that the dude has a micro penis? There is porn like that so you do have that choice.
> 
> Show of hands?


I read your question and thought "guys, this is a trick question".

Ron White joke. 

NSFW

https://youtu.be/mY711HJK7pg


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Lila said:


> I read your question and thought "guys, this is a trick question".
> 
> Ron White joke.
> 
> ...


Lol...I was literally about to quote him to assert my distinction between boobs and penises.."you know the old saying if you've seen one pair of breast...you want to the rest of them".


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lila said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > How about asking men the same question.
> ...


Yep.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

cashcratebob said:


> Lol...I was literally about to quote him to assert my distinction between boobs and penises.."you know the old saying if you've seen one pair of breast...you want to the rest of them".


While I enjoy Ron White's comedy, I do agree with @Faithful Wife. A woman's preference for a bigger penis is just as tough on a man's ego as a man's preference for bigger butts/boobs etc.. on a woman's ego. Does that mean the person with the particular preference can't love the person who doesn't meet that preference? I hope we are loved whole and not the sum of our parts.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Lila said:


> While I enjoy Ron White's comedy, I do agree with @Faithful Wife. A woman's preference for a bigger penis is just as tough on a man's ego as a man's preference for bigger butts/boobs etc.. on a woman's ego. Does that mean the person with the particular preference can't love the person who doesn't meet that preference? I hope we are loved whole and not the sum of our parts.


If your guy REALLY likes big butts and boobs? Just start eating..............A LOT. :wink2::grin2:


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Sfort said:


> @MJJEAN said in another thread,
> 
> Here we go with mixed signals again. If size doesn't matter or at least doesn't matter as much as men think it should, why do women (at least MJJEAN) consider a monster **** to be a "blessing"?
> 
> (If you don't like size threads, you probably shouldn't be reading this one.) :smile2:


Most women don't orgasm from PIV and aren't very concerned with size because of this. Also, some women are narrow and shallower, so a large penis would be uncomfortable. Other women are longer/deeper and a larger penis fits their body well.

So, yes, size can matter. It just doesn't matter as much as most men think it does or why most men think it does. Most women are perfectly happy with the average penis. A) Its statistically not likely to matter when it comes to her orgasm B) It's not going to cause discomfort and C) It's much easier to perform oral on.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> Most women don't orgasm from PIV and aren't very concerned with size because of this. Also, some women are narrow and shallower, so a large penis would be uncomfortable. Other women are longer/deeper and a larger penis fits their body well.
> 
> So, yes, size can matter. It just doesn't matter as much as most men think it does or why most men think it does. Most women are perfectly happy with the average penis. A) Its statistically not likely to matter when it comes to her orgasm B) It's not going to cause discomfort and C) It's much easier to perform oral on.


D) You can put it another place easier too.......(for those that are into that :wink2


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Middle of Everything said:


> If your guy REALLY likes big butts and boobs? Just start eating..............A LOT. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" ></a>


Lol, that's not good advice. I've got the big butt (thanks to genetics and eating a lot) and big-ish perky boobs (thanks to Dr. M). Trust me....men don't like that look.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Lila said:


> Lol, that's not good advice. I've got the big butt (thanks to genetics and eating a lot) and big-ish perky boobs (thanks to Dr. M). Trust me....men don't like that look.


I don't know where you live, but a LOT of men here would chase you like greyhounds after a rabbit.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> How about asking men the same question.
> 
> When looking for guy-girl porn, do you prefer that the dude has a micro penis? There is porn like that so you do have that choice.
> 
> Show of hands?


Porn is an interesting case.

Big penises have advantages, they're easier to film (don't know what you could show for PIV if the guy had a 4 incher), allow for more positions and, apparently, are preferred (so are big boobs maybe, but I see a whole lot more small breasts in porn than I see small penises). 

Also, notice that almost all amateur porn features bigger penises (guys with small ones don't feel the compulsion to show off?); the only women who feel good enough about their body to be filmed turn out to be with guys who are bigger than normal? 

Is there a genre for small penis porn? I'm sure there must be, but I've never run across it.

If you ask me, porn ought to make guys feel a lot more insecure than it does women.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> I don't know where you live, but a LOT of men here would chase you like greyhounds after a rabbit.


Sir Mix A Lot even made a song about it.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Lila said:


> While I enjoy Ron White's comedy, I do agree with @Faithful Wife. A woman's preference for a bigger penis is just as tough on a man's ego as a man's preference for bigger butts/boobs etc.. on a woman's ego. Does that mean the person with the particular preference can't love the person who doesn't meet that preference? I hope we are loved whole and not the sum of our parts.


But a woman's butt / boobs only effects attraction, I don't know that it ever effects a woman's ability to bring a man to orgasm.

On the other hand, if a woman does orgasm via PIV, penis size can directly effect the ability to accomplish that.

However, I think it's rarely a deal breaker



MJJEAN said:


> Most women don't orgasm from PIV and aren't very concerned with size because of this. Also, some women are narrow and shallower, so a large penis would be uncomfortable. Other women are longer/deeper and a larger penis fits their body well.
> 
> So, yes, size can matter. It just doesn't matter as much as most men think it does or why most men think it does. Most women are perfectly happy with the average penis. A) Its statistically not likely to matter when it comes to her orgasm B) It's not going to cause discomfort and C) It's much easier to perform oral on.


Picking up the occasional woman's magazine in the doctor's waiting room and reading the "sex problems" column; it does seem as though more women have issues with too large than too small.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Boobs and butts can be fixed. Not so for penises.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> Boobs and butts can be fixed. Not so for penises.


What about if a man has a preference for teeny tiny 95 pound women? How can that be fixed if you are a 5’7” woman with an average frame? There is no amount of weight loss or surgery that could ever make her a tiny 95 pound woman.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> What about if a man has a preference for teeny tiny 95 pound women? How can that be fixed if you are a 5’7” woman with an average frame? There is no amount of weight loss or surgery that could ever make her a tiny 95 pound woman.[/QUOTE
> 
> Is her being 95 lbs needed for him to have an orgasm? The best orgasm he's capable of having?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > What about if a man has a preference for teeny tiny 95 pound women? How can that be fixed if you are a 5’7” woman with an average frame? There is no amount of weight loss or surgery that could ever make her a tiny 95 pound woman.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I’d also like to add that I don’t O from PIV at all and yet I still have a preference for longer and thicker than average.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> But a woman's butt / boobs only effects attraction, I don't know that it ever effects a woman's ability to bring a man to orgasm.
> 
> On the other hand, if a woman does orgasm via PIV, penis size can directly effect the ability to accomplish that.
> 
> However, I think it's rarely a deal breaker.


I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness fo a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Sfort said:


> Boobs and butts can be fixed. Not so for penises.


If that were true, and men did have it worse than women, you'd think by now they'd get over the whole penis size thing. As you stated....It's not going to change so.... What's the point of stressing over it?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> I don't know where you live, but a LOT of men here would chase you like greyhounds after a rabbit.


That look is only popular here with women who are 5'3 and 36-24-36. 



Middle of Everything said:


> Sir Mix A Lot even made a song about it.


That's my second most hated song. #1 is Fat Bottom Girls. I'll die a happy woman if I never hear either of those again.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lila said:


> Buddy400 said:
> 
> 
> > But a woman's butt / boobs only effects attraction, I don't know that it ever effects a woman's ability to bring a man to orgasm.
> ...


It’s really confusing how men don’t see this. Again, the double standard. Men’s egos are somehow more hurt than women’s, no matter how much we try to explain things or what examples we give. There’s always some kind of deflection so that men can feel they are “more” harmed than women are when it comes to insecurity. 

I’ll never understand this. It’s been something I’ve seen all my life and been told by both men and women. That you never ever discuss preferences with a guy but you are supposed to just grin and bear it when a guy talks about his preferences.

Honestly, I’ve never felt comfortable with this until I began ignoring this advice and just speak openly, like what I like, and refuse to be shamed for what I like. The way men behave, in other words.

At the same time, I lost all insecurities related to anyone’s preferences who I don’t know and will never be intimate with.

For guys I may potentially date or have sex with, of course I will have insecurities if I’m not their type if they are spouting about it all the time. I’ve learned to just steer clear of those men. They are pretty easy to spot.

My exh had many different preferences, loved variety and was turned on by lots of different types of bodies. He also was a boob man. He had his favorite type of boobs but loved just about all of them. 

Yet he was still able to make me always feel I was the best, most favorite, most cherished and most lusted after woman with the best breasts of all on the face of the earth in his eyes. And I was able to make him feel that way too because at the time I honestly didn’t ever even glance at another man or woman in a sexual way. I wanted only him, didn’t fantasize about anyone else, and never wanted anyone else. Even though he was not 100% my ultimate preference in all ways and I was not his ultimate in all ways either. But the whole package of each other became our ultimate preferences because of the great sex we had and our deep love for each other.

After we were that secure with each other, sometimes we would watch porn together (never alone) of each other’s preferences. I loved seeing him get turned on by these big ol huge boobies, the kind which are natural and no surgery could have ever made me look like that. It never made me feel he didn’t love mine the best. Same would happen with huge penis porn. He would just be fun and sexy with me if we watched some of that. Never any insecurities at that point. It was very wonderful and fun and sexy.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> What about if a man has a preference for teeny tiny 95 pound women? How can that be fixed if you are a 5’7” woman with an average frame? There is no amount of weight loss or surgery that could ever make her a tiny 95 pound woman.


Good point. What if he has a preference for African American and she's Asian? Some things are not fixable. Men just don't like penis size being one of the things that can't be fixed. Someone mentioned that a loose vagina is a parallel comparison to a small penis. Actually, there is surgery to correct loose vaginas.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Lila said:


> I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness for a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.


I believe you 100%. I just don't think women's egos are as fragile as men's egos. But what do I know?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Lila said:


> If that were true, and men did have it worse than women, you'd think by now they'd get over the whole penis size thing. As you stated....It's not going to change so.... What's the point of stressing over it?


Now you have hit the nail on the head, no pun intended. Why doesn't this issue go away for men? Remember, 80% of men are dissatisfied with their size. That is a HIGH percentage. There's nothing that can be done about it (except lose weight if you're overweight.) Some things in life just don't make sense. Why do men wrap up so much of their self worth in their size?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness for a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.
> ...


Why would men’s egos be more fragile? What would make you think this?

It seems ridiculous to me. Women torture themselves over insecurities constantly. Men may do so also but somehow their pain is worse?


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Lila said:


> I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness fo a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.


I would agree that, as far as ego is concerned, one is not worse than the other.

But, with penises there can be more than ego at stake.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> Why would men’s egos be more fragile? What would make you think this?
> 
> It seems ridiculous to me. Women torture themselves over insecurities constantly. Men may do so also but somehow their pain is worse?


It's a weakness on men's parts. I've heard many women over the years complain about men's damn egos.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Why would men’s egos be more fragile? What would make you think this?
> ...


Yes we complain about it because men have no empathy for our egos yet they expect us to protect theirs.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness fo a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.
> ...


So women who are literally starving themselves to death or who are bulemic are not experiencing more than just an ego bruise? And for some reason their pain or issues - to the point of death sometimes - are still not as painful as what men go through.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness fo a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.
> ...


Like what?


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s really confusing how men don’t see this. Again, the double standard. Men’s egos are somehow more hurt than women’s, no matter how much we try to explain things or what examples we give. There’s always some kind of deflection so that men can feel they are “more” harmed than women are when it comes to insecurity.
> 
> I’ll never understand this. It’s been something I’ve seen all my life and been told by both men and women. That you never ever discuss preferences with a guy but you are supposed to just grin and bear it when a guy talks about his preferences.
> 
> ...


Yes, it all makes little sense (no pun intended). It's not about "who has it worse" but about both being stuck with hang ups that for the most part, can't be changed.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

I've never worried about my size....

But it would only take one negative comment for me to feel anxious over it. 

I'm glad I've always been with woman considerate of my fragile ego


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

attheend02 said:


> I've never worried about my size....
> 
> But it would only take one negative comment for me to feel anxious over it.
> 
> I'm glad I've always been with woman considerate of my fragile ego <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>


That’s awesome and kudos to you for being self assured. Also it’s great no woman has ever made a negative comment. 

Out of curiosity, do you think you’ve ever made a woman feel insecure? By accident or on purpose?


----------



## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> That’s awesome and kudos to you for being self assured. Also it’s great no woman has ever made a negative comment.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you think you’ve ever made a woman feel insecure? By accident or on purpose?


I didn't say I was self-assured  Just that size has never been at the top of my worries. I realized early on that I am average, but have had woman go wild on me, so....

I have plenty of other insecurities. 

I actually think a better analogy for boobs is men's hair. As a balding man, I get bothered when I see woman posting about a man with a "great head of hair".

I am sure that I have a made a woman feel insecure at some point or another. I haven't always been the most sensitive person in the room. Although, if I realize I'm offending, I try to change my future behavior.

I think we may fetishize what we don't have.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Lila said:


> Yes, it all makes little sense (no pun intended). It's not about "who has it worse" but about both being stuck with hang ups that for the most part, can't be changed.


I don't think it's about "who has it worse" but rather a lack of sensitivity about how something is discussed. 

I am sure I have stepped into a pile of something making a remark to my wife about female anatomy at some point in my life, not realizing it was something she was sensitive about. But I sure as heck tried not to. My first GF was well endowed. Curvy. Large boobs. A bit on the heavier side. When I met my to-be-wife (the two are my only GFs), as far as I was concerned she had the perfect 34Bs. She carried them just right, they were soft, and, as Frank Zappa said, anything over a mouthful is wasted. I never made a comparison (far as I know) that could have put my wife in a lesser light to anyone else.

Another situation that she asked about was taste & smell. I had no problem with either, nor was anything close to being as important as ability to enjoy the moment for her, with her.

The flip side? My to-be-wife had no issue in casual conversation mentioning that one guy was bigger than another, or whom was biggest. It was not a subject I ever brought up. She was simply oblivious to it being something that might matter to someone. And I was left with the conflict of her rather extensive knowledge of such things vs her narrative of saving herself.

It's complicated.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

attheend02 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > That’s awesome and kudos to you for being self assured. Also it’s great no woman has ever made a negative comment.
> ...


That’s how I would describe self assurance. You just decide to be ok with yourself. It doesn’t mean you don’t still wish you could improve this or that. But it also doesn’t mean you are self conscious or ultra insecure. 

As for the hair comment, I do wish something like that would not affect you, especially if it’s being said by rando women. 

Men say soooo many things about so many different types of women and body parts I can’t imagine how horrible it would feel if I was insecure about what they say. It would come up almost every day if I’m including news feed, this and other forums, random dudes in real life, etc and so forth. Maybe you don’t notice what other men say and do notice what women say. 

How many men will say if there is a blonde in the room, the brunettes will get less attention with a wink and all are agreeing? I’ve seen that one a lot. 

As a brunette I’ve had to just get self assured. Even while it seems very common to assume men on the average prefer blondes. Heck even I prefer blondes!! But to be insecure about this would take too much out of my soul so I refuse to. 

Now I feel that no matter how beautiful another woman is, it doesn’t take any of my beauty away from me.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Sfort said:


> @MJJEAN said in another thread,
> 
> Here we go with mixed signals again. If size doesn't matter or at least doesn't matter as much as men think it should, why do women (at least MJJEAN) consider a monster **** to be a "blessing"?
> 
> (If you don't like size threads, you probably shouldn't be reading this one.) :smile2:


most men would never be unhappy with woman that had perfectly shaped b cup or c cup,
saying that D's or larger cups are the best.

but there are a few men that feel monster boobs are the best.

a few men and women are size kings and queens.

most women are very content with men that have average size tools. some women find
monster's to painful. in the end it is a matter of preference.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Sfort said:


> The confusion occurs when, for example, a woman gets all pissed off about a man commenting about big boobs, but then the woman refers to her former sex partner with a large penis as "blessed". It seems to me to be the same double standard you're discussing. Why can a woman get pissed about a man calling out the "well endowed" attributes of another woman that she may not have, but a man can't get pissed about a woman calling out the "well endowed" attributes of a man that he may not have.
> 
> Men who call out big boobs in the presence of someone who doesn't them are insensitive. Women who call out big penises in the presence of someone who doesn't have one are insensitive.
> 
> Can't we all just get along?


insensitive? 

yes because a woman cannot hide she has a small rack

no because men's penises are covered up by their clothing so he can pretend that
he was not short changed


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> How about asking men the same question.
> 
> When looking for guy-girl porn, do you prefer that the dude has a micro penis? There is porn like that so you do have that choice.
> 
> Show of hands?


men do not care about penis size in porn, they tend to ignore the man's equipment 
and performance. and focus on the woman's figure and her acting.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > How about asking men the same question.
> ...


The question was specifically about a micro penis. Are you saying that men would not even notice if the dude in porn had a micro peen? Or that he would just ignore it and still watch?

Also saying that you ignore his performance doesn’t make much sense. If he just laid there and looked at the ceiling, you would still want to keep watching?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> The question was specifically about a micro penis. Are you saying that men would not even notice if the dude in porn had a micro peen? Or that he would just ignore it and still watch?
> 
> Also saying that you ignore his performance doesn’t make much sense. If he just laid there and looked at the ceiling, you would still want to keep watching?


When men look at porn we are looking at the woman/women and blocking out the guy. At least I do. I prefer if there is no guy at all but if there is, I'm not paying any attention to what he's doing or looks like. So if the guy was just laying there staring at the ceiling, if the woman was doing enough, I don't think I'd stop watching. All I need to stay interested is an attractive woman and a storyline, not some giant penis to go along with it. In fact, I'd rather not see that. The less penis the better, imo. 

Can men with micropenises even have sex? Sure they could get some form of a bj, but I'm not going to watch a bj video either way. Let's say they are large enough to have PIV, no I don't think it would make me click off the video. I'm not looking at the guy at all.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

bobert said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > The question was specifically about a micro penis. Are you saying that men would not even notice if the dude in porn had a micro peen? Or that he would just ignore it and still watch?
> ...


I totally believe you, but I have heard men say quite different things than this. Such as that they want to see her taking in a huge dong and want to see and hear the guy being very nasty, turning her upside down and all different positions. They say the close ups are important and seeing it go inside of her is a turn on and that no porn guys have a small **** for this reason.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally believe you, but I have heard men say quite different things than this. Such as that they want to see her taking in a huge dong and want to see and hear the guy being very nasty, turning her upside down and all different positions. They say the close ups are important and seeing it go inside of her is a turn on and that no porn guys have a small **** for this reason.


I just threw up in my mouth a little, so count me out. To each their own. I purposely avoid the "big ****" sections.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

People lacking sensitivity or being hurt by that insensitivity is not gender-specific. People are people. We can all be insensitive and we all have insecurities. Having those insecurities picked at (intentionally or not) can cut deep. As someone with a penis, I'm 100% confident that women are just as affected by insensitive comments as men are. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to grasp. It really doesn't make any sense that men are more affected by it than women. I think men and women are hurt differently by it and react differently to it, but one gender isn't more affected than the other.

I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen my wife looking in the mirror and crying because she hates her boobs. She has issues with choosing clothing, her shirt rarely comes off anymore, I'm not allowed to touch, and she feels like **** that I have to "put up" with her having small boobs since she knows I prefer larger. That doesn't sound like someone who is "less affected" than a man would be about his **** size. It's different, yes, but not better or worse. Once upon a time she liked having small boobs because she was very active. Comments from me, other guy's she's been with, hearing casual guy talk, social media, even a comment from a patient, and being compared to others ruined that. Now it doesn't matter what I say or do, the damage is done. I can give her all the compliments I want but like a guy hearing that his **** is too small, it's over and nothing I can say will change her opinion that her boobs are too small. Once we were looking at reddit and she clicked a nude. The woman was riding a guy. I commented that her boobs had a good rhythm going and that upset my wife because she doesn't have anything to move therefore sex must not be as good because there is no visual of boobs bouncing around. Some guys would say that's stupid, boobs size doesn't matter. Well, some women will say **** size doesn't matter if you know how to use it and aren't a selfish lover, so how is it any different?

This debate that men are somehow more affected and need to be coddled is stupid.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

bobert said:


> People lacking sensitivity or being hurt by that insensitivity is not gender-specific. People are people. We can all be insensitive and we all have insecurities. Having those insecurities picked at (intentionally or not) can cut deep. As someone with a penis, I'm 100% confident that women are just as affected by insensitive comments as men are. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to grasp. It really doesn't make any sense that men are more affected by it than women. I think men and women are hurt differently by it and react differently to it, but one gender isn't more affected than the other.
> 
> I couldn't tell you how many times I've seen my wife looking in the mirror and crying because she hates her boobs. She has issues with choosing clothing, her shirt rarely comes off anymore, I'm not allowed to touch, and she feels like **** that I have to "put up" with her having small boobs. That doesn't sound like someone who is "less affected" than a man would be about his **** size. It's different, yes, but not better or worse. Once upon a time she liked having small boobs because she was very active. Comments from me, other guy's she's been with, hearing casual guy talk, social media, even a comment from a patient, and being compared to others ruined that. Now it doesn't matter what I say or do, the damage is done. I can give her all the compliments I want but like a guy hearing that his **** is too small, it's over and nothing I can say will change her opinion that her boobs are too small. Once we were looking at reddit and she clicked a nude. The woman was riding a guy. I commented that her boobs had a good rhythm going and that upset my wife because she doesn't have anything to move therefore sex must not be as good because there is no visual of boobs bouncing around. Some guys would say that's stupid, boobs size doesn't matter. Well, some women will say **** size doesn't matter if you know how to use it and aren't a selfish lover, so how is it any different?
> 
> This debate that men are somehow more affected and need to be coddled is stupid.


Thank you for saying this. 

I’m sad your wife feels that way. I’ve seen and heard many other women hate themselves in a similar way. Even women who are objectively beautiful and who other women wish they could look like.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> I would agree that, as far as ego is concerned, one is not worse than the other.
> 
> But, with penises there can be more than ego at stake.





Lila said:


> Like what?


I don't get why this needs to be a Women vs Men thing.

I'm sure that women are more sensitive about their attractiveness than men are. Women are judged on their appearances much more often then men, even by other women. There's more focus on women's appearance that on men's. Appearance plays a bigger part in how than men are attracted to women than the other way around (not to say that a man's appearance doesn't matter to women). 

Does the fact that women are so sensitive about their attractiveness mean that they have fragile egos? No, it just mean that they're human.

Guys are less sensitive about their attractiveness and more sensitive about their penis size, ability to get and maintain an erection and endurance; for good reason. 

All of these things CAN be (and often ARE) important in making sex an enjoyable experience for their partner (especially initial encounters, where women are much less likely than men to orgasm). Men caring about women enjoying sex would seem to be a good thing (but, I've heard women complain about how men's need to make sex enjoyable for women is just another indicator of their ego). 

Not only that but these things aren't a factor until the moment sex is about to begin or already has, so it's too late for the woman to exit the situation gracefully with no bruised feelings because the man didn't meet her "preferences" (which, she is certainly entitled to have).

Now, once you're in an LTR, you should stop being concerned about your penis size. However, you DO still get to worry about getting and maintaining an erection and premature ejaculation. 

I'm not whining about this, it's part of life when you're a man. Personally, I've been very happily married for 30 years and I'm having great and frequent sex at 64. But, it does sort of annoy me when some women seem to just shrug off what certainly *can be* real issues for men and credit it to our "fragile" egos. Which, I guess, is why I tend to go on about this. 

So, yeah. Men have it harder in some areas and women have it harder in others. 

How about we each try to have some empathy for the other gender a little more and stop trying to keep score as to who has it worse?.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally believe you, but I have heard men say quite different things than this. Such as that they want to see her taking in a huge dong and want to see and hear the guy being very nasty, turning her upside down and all different positions. They say the close ups are important and seeing it go inside of her is a turn on and that no porn guys have a small **** for this reason.


Sure, a bigger penis makes "seeing what's happening" easier.

Watching porn to see women enjoying much bigger penises than one's own seems sort of like cuckold humiliation. To each their own.

And *too* big is just a freak show.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Buddy400 said:
> 
> 
> > I would agree that, as far as ego is concerned, one is not worse than the other.
> ...


I think @Sfort was the only one saying men have it worse.

As for empathy, no one needs to worry about me as far as that goes. I have no problem reading about all the hot women who are nothing like me. Why would I care what men I’ll never meet think? Actually I even enjoy reading those posts, it’s fascinating to see such a broad spectrum of what people think is hot.

There are threads here that could trigger pain or insecurities in me. Usually I know by the thread title so I avoid them. If I wander in unaware and get triggered by something I didn’t realize people would be talking about, I leave and don’t come back. It’s up to me to protect myself, no one else has that responsibility. And they may be having a conversation that is helping them greatly. Why should they worry about anyone else when it is helping them? It isn’t about me at all. 

I feel the same about everyone else. Please just don’t keep reading if something is making you feel bad. People don’t mean to make you feel bad. They are talking about themselves, not you.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think @Sfort was the only one saying men have it worse.
> 
> As for empathy, no one needs to worry about me as far as that goes. I have no problem reading about all the hot women who are nothing like me. Why would I care what men I’ll never meet think? Actually I even enjoy reading those posts, it’s fascinating to see such a broad spectrum of what people think is hot.
> 
> ...


To be clear, I have no problems reading about how a woman or some women really like long, thick penises. It doesn't make me feel bad. I'm not going to go out of my way to read about it, but I can read about it without tears streaming down my cheeks. 

What bothers me is when women (or men) dismiss men's concerns in this area as "stupid", unfounded or indicative of a "fragile male ego".

They aren't (they're exaggerated) but there are valid reasons many men have these feelings.

Just like there's a reason so many women feel judged about their looks.

EDIT: As to the bolded. I'll accept that you're triggered by something. I'm not going to tell you that what you're triggered by isn't any worse than what someone else is triggered by. And I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong to be triggered by those things. If I know what triggers you and can avoid bringing that topic up in a conversation with you, that's what I'll do. But, it's pointless to try and get the world to avoid talking about things that trigger you, so one needs to avoid those areas or try to work on triggering less.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I think @Sfort was the only one saying men have it worse.
> ...


I agree. Both men and women can be insecure. For those who are, it hurts. Men and women can both also be insensitive and dismissive of other people’s pain. 

However I don’t think expressing personal preferences is the same as being insensitive. 

Like the poster who said it hurts a bit (I’m sure he doesn’t have tears streaming down his face) to read women talking about men who have a “full head of hair”, I would hope he doesn’t think women who say something like that mean him or any other man any harm. She’s just talking about something she likes. She’s talking about herself.

If I read a man talking about some area of a woman where I feel insecure, I don’t think he’s being insensitive. Even if he goes on and on in great detail, or even if he says something like “when it’s this other way it’s very unattractive to me”. It might hit me in a soft place where I’ve been hurt before. But that’s not his fault or his problem. He’s not trying to hurt me or anyone else, just stating a preference. 

Insecurities do hurt but it’s really up to each of us to work through that ourselves. 

I don’t think men here would respond well if we told them they should be more sensitive in how they word things or what preferences they share so that women won’t get their feelings hurt. I think they would laugh at us and tell us not to read it if we don’t like it because they aren’t about to stop having preferences nor talking about them.

There is at least one male poster here who likes to share that men only want virtuous women for marriage, and that he would **** a woman who isn’t virtuous but then dump her for being a ****. Also says he would lie to her to get her to sleep with him first by making her think he’s actually interested in her. Then dump her because she fell for it. 

To me, that’s insensitive and horrible and I wish he had never said those things here or anywhere. But is he going to stop saying such things just because I or other women may take offense? Nope. He just laughs at us if we feel offended. 

He also claims to speak for all or most men. Says it’s biology. 

But I don’t see many men telling him this is insensitive or just plain wrong because it doesn’t apply to all men. Mostly men seem to ignore it. 

So I’ve learned over time here and on other forums, people will say what they want and others may wish for more sensitive comments but it’s never going to stop some people from saying how they feel and what they prefer. 

I guess in the end we can just realize some posters are going to say and do things we don’t like. We can let it hurt us or we can ignore them and patch up our own issues and feelings about these topics.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

As to your edit, I feel like that’s what I’ve been saying on all these posts. I don’t blame the person who said something that triggered me. It’s not their problem and I know they didn’t mean me any harm. I would hope others could feel that way too if they are triggered. I will never ask anyone to curb their posts on my behalf or anyone else’s.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

With attraction, it's easy for people to get hurt when comparing or stating preferences for individual features (hair, butt, boobs, penis, arms, height, etc). I prefer a guy that i'm compatible with and who i'm overall attracted to. It's not simply a matter of liking muscular arms but the guy has less muscular ones so he's no good. I doesn't work that way. I mean, who's perfect and meets your hypothetical perfect person in every single physical feature? Never mind the even more important stuff that's not physical.

This is a very interesting discussion. Sometimes it's funny how we talk about penises. Like always comparing a large penis on a bad lover vs a small penis on a good lover. Not sure about that comparison. I'm sure women have preferences for the type/style of sex and how their partner does things AND many have size preferences. They aren't necessarily linked in any way. 

It's also funny how penis size is almost like unspeakable and off limits. We're supposed to all say that it doesn't matter and then skirt the issue by saying that it's more important "what he does with it". See above. That might be true but it being MORE important "what he does with it" isn't a response to size preference.

My preference has always been for larger penises but i certainly don't NEED that to be happy with a guy as long as it's not really small. 

I experienced ego in a very ugly way with a guy from my past. Constantly made me feel bad about myself in every way and one day i couldn't take it any more and i commented unfavorably about his penis size. I paid for that comment. Boy did i pay for that. While there's no excuse for that, it's almost like in society, there's a feeling that "I should have known better" and "you just don't go there".


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think @Sfort was the only one saying men have it worse.


I'm not sure I said that, but I may have said some things that merit examination. Rather than digging back through posts and trying to figure out an effective way to accurately quote previous comments, I do not necessarily think men have it worse, whatever worse means. What I am saying, and I believe it to be true but can't prove it, is that men have egos that are more fragile than women. Based on some of the posts in these recent threads, maybe there is not as much difference as I think there is. Many men, most of whom will never discuss it, have their egos wrapped up in their penises. The figure I have quoted is 80% of men are dissatisfied with the size of theirs. (There was a guy on another forum who gave unsolicited advice to men who have monster penises about how to overcome the fear and trepidation of their lovers when they see it and try to take it the first time, but he was so boorish that I put him on ignore. I took his posts as being similar to someone saying, "I apologize for being so damn good looking, but I'll help anyone with the same problem cope.") So, said another way, my comparison of male-versus-female egos places women on a higher plane than men in that they have it together better. What I'm hearing is that women have the same emotional vulnerabilities that men do and, possibly, to the same or greater extent. (I realize things vary from person to person.)

There was a story in Texas a few years ago where a guy and his girlfriend got into a discussion of her past boyfriends. The guy asked her if her last boyfriend was bigger than he was. She replied that he was a LOT bigger and knew what he was doing. It bruised this guy's ego so badly that he killed her. Men have their egos wrapped up in their penises.

Women can suffer greatly from comments, too. Karen Carpenter of The Carpenters, probably the best female singer in history, was overweight. An article in a music magazine referred to her as her brother's "chubby sister". The comment devastated her. She immediately started a routine to lose weight. Ultimately she developed anorexia nervosa. She died from it. Very, very tragic. 



> As for empathy, no one needs to worry about me as far as that goes. I have no problem reading about all the hot women who are nothing like me. Why would I care what men I’ll never meet think? Actually I even enjoy reading those posts, it’s fascinating to see such a broad spectrum of what people think is hot.


I, for one, am glad that this thread has continued as long as it has. I have learned a great deal from @Faithful Wife, @Lila, @JustTheWife, and several others. My curiosity often makes me feel like a voyeuristic creep, but my intentions are honorable. I really do want to understand women and their attitudes about sex better. My quest for knowledge has caused me to enter into some conversations with a coworker that would probably be considered inappropriate. While they are purely clinical, non-salacious, and very respectful, I should not have to engage with a coworker to satisfy my innocent quest for knowledge. Truth be told, I should have been a psychiatrist, psychotherapist, or psychologist, but it's too late in the game now for me to make a shift. Instead, I ask questions here of those wonderful ladies who are willing to open up and share since they are protected by the board's anonymity. I would NEVER ask any of these questions face-to-face!



> There are threads here that could trigger pain or insecurities in me. Usually I know by the thread title so I avoid them. If I wander in unaware and get triggered by something I didn’t realize people would be talking about, I leave and don’t come back. It’s up to me to protect myself, no one else has that responsibility. And they may be having a conversation that is helping them greatly. Why should they worry about anyone else when it is helping them? It isn’t about me at all.


I hear you, but if I know what a person's triggers are, I absolutely avoid using them in their presence. No one deserves to be treated like crap. Just because we don't understand those triggers ("what are men so damn worried about the size of their penises? Women don't care!" (except for some here who admit to preferring big ones)) that doesn't mean we should not consider the person's feelings. If I sit near someone in a restaurant, and that person smacks his or her food, I get up and move. They have a right to smack. I have a right to move. It turns out that I have a hypersensitivity to certain sounds, such as smacking. A lot of people have such sensitivities, such as fingernails on a chalkboard or glass on Styrofoam, which, strangely enough, don't bother me. 



> I feel the same about everyone else. Please just don’t keep reading if something is making you feel bad. People don’t mean to make you feel bad. They are talking about themselves, not you.


Well said.

I've only participated on one or two boards that talk about sex and marriage, but as you can tell from my posting too much lately, I'm blown away (no pun intended) by this one. The educational and wisdom levels far exceed the others I've seen. I really appreciate the candor and willingness to share that most people on this board have. I just have SO many questions.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

JustTheWife said:


> With attraction, it's easy for people to get hurt when comparing or stating preferences for individual features (hair, butt, boobs, penis, arms, height, etc). I prefer a guy that i'm compatible with and who i'm overall attracted to. It's not simply a matter of liking muscular arms but the guy has less muscular ones so he's no good. I doesn't work that way. I mean, who's perfect and meets your hypothetical perfect person in every single physical feature? Never mind the even more important stuff that's not physical.
> 
> This is a very interesting discussion. Sometimes it's funny how we talk about penises. Like always comparing a large penis on a bad lover vs a small penis on a good lover. Not sure about that comparison. I'm sure women have preferences for the type/style of sex and how their partner does things AND many have size preferences. They aren't necessarily linked in any way.
> 
> ...


Excellent post!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Buddy400 said:


> I don't get why this needs to be a Women vs Men thing.
> 
> I'm sure that women are more sensitive about their attractiveness than men are. Women are judged on their appearances much more often then men, even by other women. There's more focus on women's appearance that on men's. Appearance plays a bigger part in how than men are attracted to women than the other way around (not to say that a man's appearance doesn't matter to women).
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right that we should have more empathy for the other. I do agree with @JustTheWife when she said _it's almost like in society, there's a feeling that "I should have known better" and "you just don't go there"_ but it's okay to criticize/judge everything else. It's taboo to discuss because of the reasons you mentioned above and while I completely empathize with men on this issue, I am not going to avoid the topic or lie to appease someone else. This is just another genetic lottery characteristic. Some are born with highly sought after characteristics. Others, not so much and we have to make up for it other ways...if we can. I liken it to physically ugly (by societal standards) people who get told to make up for it by working on the things they can change, such as physique. If a man feels dissatisfied with his size then he should work on his sexual techniques. The majority of women would appreciate that way more than than the size of his penis.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Lila said:


> If a man feels dissatisfied with his size then he should work on his sexual techniques. The majority of women would appreciate that way more than than the size of his penis.


What are some of these techniques?


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> What about if a man has a preference for teeny tiny 95 pound women? How can that be fixed if you are a 5’7” woman with an average frame? There is no amount of weight loss or surgery that could ever make her a tiny 95 pound woman.


I think my issue with your argument is keep comparing apples to oranges. Not apples to apples...what if a women has preference for a six six dude? In both cases nothing can be done and the comparison is relevant.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Lila said:


> I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness fo a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.


OK...I can absolutely agree with this. Yes, the totality of all attractiveness for a women is on par with penis size for me. In fact I would even support that most women deal with issues of attractiveness way more than most men deal with issues of penis size. 

I wasn't on the board until you clarified this. I thought we were just on boobs compared to penises. Which I don't think at all affects the same...since women can easily make a change to themselves. My wife did :smile2: And so did you right?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

cashcratebob said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness fo a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.
> ...


It’s interesting to me that some guys are still really zeroed in on making men’s pain worse than women’s. I don’t see women saying their pain is worse, just see a couple guys saying that men’s is worse.

Some breasts can’t be fixed by the way, such as after a mastectomy. They can be reconstructed, but the results are not going to be anything like some young perky breasts. They don’t even have nipples. 

And after such a surgery some women wish they had just not done it at all. Some may be happier than before surgery but not happier than before cancer.

But somehow some guys still think their insecurities are “worse”. 

I think men and women’s pain are the same, and some individuals have more or less of each gender.

I don’t know why there is a push from a few men that men’s is worse. Is it because you can only empathize with your own gender?


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s interesting to me that some guys are still really zeroed in on making men’s pain worse than women’s. I don’t see women saying their pain is worse, just see a couple guys saying that men’s is worse.
> 
> Some breasts can’t be fixed by the way, such as after a mastectomy. They can be reconstructed, but the results are not going to be anything like some young perky breasts. They don’t even have nipples.
> 
> ...


For one, I don't believe/agree that all things are equal for both genders. Never have, never will and I think that to believe this is simplistic in thinking and ignores a great deal of information out there. I do believe women deal way more with body image issues on the whole than men, that their strife, conflict, and pain is worse. But a quick review of reditt, surviving infidelity shows that men are deeply concerned with the APs penis size, where women seem to be more concerned with what seems to be the overall look of the AP (so this is the equality that I would concede). 

I think your examples are exceptional, I would agree those are rough situations and are far far worse than the run of the mill situations I have in mind...I don't typically argue from the place of exceptions/extenuating circumstances in arguments, I use the norms. Like my wifes', who didn't like her breast and had an enhancement. 
To be clear my only argument was not that pain is worse, but that to simply compare breast size to penis size and a partners preference for a type of that is not the same. To be even more clear...if female partner says she prefers a larger penis than what her SO has but she's happy...do you really think that what the man feels is the same as the women if the man said he prefers larger breast than what the women has but he's happy? I just don't think the internal emotional turmoil is the same, and I base that on my previously mentioned points regarding the pre-occupation with penis size across forums like this. Just by simple comments my wife knows what my preferences are and I've never outright said that I prefer fuller breasts, she just knows because when she asks do you think so and so is attractive...she combines all my "yes'es" and gets a decent picture of what I prefer. Did this cause emotional turmoil for her...I don't know...it is possible. Did I perceive it did...nope. I think her drive to get breast was far more personal and intrinsic to her than my response. But if I had to speculate that it came from an external factor, I would say her interaction with other women had much more of a bearing on her drive to get work done. But that is a whole tangential discussion.

NOW...it could be, and absolutely is imo, accurate that we are far to pre-occupied with this penis size thing as men. Ya, I totally agree. I don't really deal with that pre-occupation...hopefully I won't have to (don't confuse pre-occupation with being a data driven dude). But yes, I think we should definitely take the female advice that it really doesn't matter all that much and that being a good lover has more to do with attentiveness and technique. 

I just like having the discussions.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

cashcratebob said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > It’s interesting to me that some guys are still really zeroed in on making men’s pain worse than women’s. I don’t see women saying their pain is worse, just see a couple guys saying that men’s is worse.
> ...


I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you have about how much women suffer. 

Yet I still don’t think they suffer more as I acknowledge men suffer with things too and that pain and suffering and insecurities are human traits which affect us all.

I don’t know why some men still cling to the suffering of men being worse. I’m still assuming you empathize with your own gender more. You base it on all the reading you have done and I do as well, plus all the women I’ve known in my life and what they have gone through.

But you are entitled to think what you want, as am I. It’s just sad to me that some men expect such empathy over this issue yet they dismiss women’s issues as oh that can be fixed (even when it can’t) or oh it’s not as important as a penis.

Hail the mighty penis and never ever make any preferences known lest a man somewhere might feel bad. Got it.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

If a man finds out he doesn't measure up to an AP, that relationship or what was left of it is over. 

Honestly, if a man finds he doesn't measure up to any past lover, it's a good chance that will seriously affect their sexual life. 

High count women are tricky, you know there is atleast one monster **** in their past that will always put you to shame.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> *I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you have about how much women suffer. *
> 
> *Yet I still don’t think they suffer more as I acknowledge men suffer with things too and that pain and suffering and insecurities are human traits which affect us all.*
> 
> ...


I have the same. And honestly I think for women it is more. As to the second bold, believing all suffering in this realm is equal is a superficial level of empathy that doesn't really go below the surface imo. Its just the nice PC thing to say. I think the female mind is preyed upon far more when it comes to body image by the media. And this stands to reason that it will result in far more body image issues. 

So again, the suffering of men is not worse. I was only making the distinction between two characteristics. What about penis size in the man to hair color in the women? Is the emotional turmoil the same? And I don't think having the discussion or making this distinction is being dismissive of anyone's feelings. 

As to the last bold, I don't know...not really sure that's what I was implying. I apologize if that's what you think.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you have about how much women suffer.
> 
> Yet I still don’t think they suffer more as I acknowledge men suffer with things too and that pain and suffering and insecurities are human traits which affect us all.
> 
> ...


Faithful are you having a bad day or something? Cause I didnt take Bob's post the way you did. Perhaps Im missing stuff here but I thought he was agreeing with you. I dont know.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Middle of Everything said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you have about how much women suffer.
> ...


No I’m not having a bad day, I just get snarky sometimes!! Sorry about that.

Actually as some know, peens are one of my favorite topics. Even in this conversation. 

I actually just wish men weren’t so insecure about it and I wish women weren’t blamed for that insecurity. I’ve never ever been anything other than a complete fangirl to every penis I’ve ever met in person. I know some men have been devastated personally by something a woman said to him directly but I don’t actually think that’s what has happened to most men. 

In fact I would advocate for women to compliment and love on their mans peen and make him feel like a million bucks that way. I know I do.


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you have about how much women suffer.
> 
> Yet I still don’t think they suffer more as I acknowledge men suffer with things too and that pain and suffering and insecurities are human traits which affect us all.
> 
> ...





Middle of Everything said:


> Faithful are you having a bad day or something? Cause I didnt take Bob's post the way you did. Perhaps Im missing stuff here but I thought he was agreeing with you. I dont know.


I think we kind of agree and kind of don't; and I think we are attacking separate ideas. But I get told I'm a poor communicator all the time...


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## cashcratebob (Jan 10, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> No I’m not having a bad day, I just get snarky sometimes!! Sorry about that.
> 
> Actually as some know, peens are one of my favorite topics. Even in this conversation.
> 
> ...


Agreed we shouldn't be!! 

Buuuuut...when you overhear women on separate occasions that a man might as well be dead if his penis is shorter than "x" it can be a little rough for some. But yes, I imagine some men and women say the something similar in regards to females. AAAAAND women are constantly bombarded by what they should look like (men are too...but I just don't think as much or that it is as effective).

So I dunno. I'm done.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

cashcratebob said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I can tell you that as a woman, physical attractiveness fo a woman affects our ego as much as penis size affects a man's ego. You may not be able to see it that way because you're a man but it is. One is not worse than the other.
> ...


I did get my breasts done but it was not to enlarge them. I actually shrunk them by three sizes unintentionally. However they look fantastic now compared to how they looked before.

My point with the comparison was to emphasis that we all have our issues. Some of us may not have been genetic lottery winners. What's the point of belaboring what we lack? As I get told all of the time. .. Focus on the positives and what we can actually change.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> If a man finds out he doesn't measure up to an AP, that relationship or what was left of it is over.
> 
> Honestly, if a man finds he doesn't measure up to any past lover, it's a good chance that will seriously affect their sexual life.
> 
> High count women are tricky, you know there is atleast one monster **** in their past that will always put you to shame.


Or the man can get the hell over it and stop putting all of his worth in his penis. 

One of my wife's AP's was larger, and apparently I'm **** twins with the other AP. My wife has said more than once that she prefers men who are intact, and both AP's are uncircumcised. Did information like that hurt? Hell yes it did! I asked about size for a reason and yes I obsessed over both for a while. "For a while" being key there. Eventually you have to let it go. 

If someone can't get over it, they need a therapist not a bigger penis.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

bobert said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > If a man finds out he doesn't measure up to an AP, that relationship or what was left of it is over.
> ...


The uncircumcised wouldn't bother me, even if she preferred it (odd preference- does it feel better or something?). The admission of the other dude being larger would be worse, that is if I could get over the affair in the first place. I almost think women should lie if they want reconciliation. Its not like the guy will ever know anyways. And what's one little lie after the sin of adultery...


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The uncircumcised wouldn't bother me, even if she preferred it (odd preference- does it feel better or something?). The admission of the other dude being larger would be worse, that is if I could get over the affair in the first place. I almost think women should lie if they want reconciliation. Its not like the guy will ever know anyways. And what's one little lie after the sin of adultery...


According to her, it's far easier to give handjobs and the sex feels better because it's a different/added sensation (unless a condom is used). It's also "natural" which makes it more attractive to her. 

Here's the thing with lying... What if it comes up later? Maybe they forget or slip up or whatever and years later it comes up? Or maybe the AP decides to send a **** pick for good ol' times. That doesn't look good and all of a sudden you are wondering what else they lied about. I demanded honesty, and honesty I got.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

bobert said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > The uncircumcised wouldn't bother me, even if she preferred it (odd preference- does it feel better or something?). The admission of the other dude being larger would be worse, that is if I could get over the affair in the first place. I almost think women should lie if they want reconciliation. Its not like the guy will ever know anyways. And what's one little lie after the sin of adultery...
> ...


Bobert, wow you are an incredibly strong person.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

bobert said:


> Here's the thing with lying... What if it comes up later? Maybe they forget or slip up or whatever and years later it comes up? Or maybe the AP decides to send a **** pick for good ol' times.


Even worse, I'm absolutely convinced that living with a lie is a lot like living with a cancer that eventually metastasizes. One day the liar will have to face the truth for one reason or another. The aftermath will be that telling the truth and dealing with the deception earlier would have been better than waiting until later. A liar having to clear his or her conscience years down the road will probably be more devastating than telling the truth now. After long-term deception, you have to deal with the hidden event AND the lying.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Sfort said:


> bobert said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the thing with lying... What if it comes up later? Maybe they forget or slip up or whatever and years later it comes up? Or maybe the AP decides to send a **** pick for good ol' times.
> ...


Lying about an affair is one thing, lying about his **** size is another. It's just etiquette. Lying to protect someone over something that really doesn't matter.

Honestly, If someone can lie about an affair, I'm fairly sure they won't be too broken up about lying over a detail that would destroy their husband. 

And if they somehow find out years later that AP was really bigger, you can always just say you were trying to protect their feelings.

That is if wife wants reconciliation, if not, then I guess you can be brutally honest to the poor SOB.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

My post was unrelated to the subject matter of the lie. It is related to the internal effect living with a lie has on the liar. Some people have no souls and will not be affected. As you will often see in the criminal justice system, some end-of-life confessions are attempts to cleanse the soul. Your mileage may vary.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

bobert said:


> According to her, it's far easier to give handjobs and the *sex feels better* because it's a different/added sensation (unless a condom is used). It's also "natural" which makes it more attractive to her.


Penis size, uncircumcised, whatever, the key point is the bolded ("the sex feels better").

And there is nothing at all that you can do about it. 

I must have a very fragile ego, because if that was my wife, I'd have a hard time with that.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

JustTheWife said:


> It's also funny how penis size is almost like unspeakable and off limits. We're supposed to all say that it doesn't matter and then skirt the issue by saying that it's more important "what he does with it". See above. That might be true but it being MORE important "what he does with it" isn't a response to size preference.
> 
> My preference has always been for larger penises but i certainly don't NEED that to be happy with a guy as long as it's not really small.


I actually believe that most women mean it. This coming from reading women-centric sites like "Wedding Bee" or whatever that is.

As far as men in general, say whatever's true for you.

As far as a man whom you're in a sexual relationship with, well, as long as you're aware of the possible consequences I guess.

When my wife asks "Do I look fat in this dress", I guess saying "Yes" *IS* an option. The reason I don't say that isn't because I've "been trained by society" or because I'm "supposed to". I don't say that because I'm not an *******.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

So I guess it's a no on micro penises....


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Buddy400 said:


> Penis size, uncircumcised, whatever, the key point is the bolded ("the sex feels better").
> 
> And there is nothing at all that you can do about it.
> 
> I must have a very fragile ego, because if that was my wife, I'd have a hard time with that.


And that's the point, _there is nothing you can do about it_ so there is no sense getting hung up on it. 

I don't have foreskin, and I don't even want foreskin, so why worry about it? There is literally no point and it won't do any good whatsoever. It's wasted energy and it can ruin sex when it really doesn't have to. This is what I have to work with, she can take it or leave it. 

Just because something may feel better or different doesn't mean that the sex is bad without it. It's like, I think deep throating and swallowing is great, but is a bj bad without either? Not to me. To me those things enhance an already good experience. Just like foreskin, length, girth, shape, curve, may all add something different, it doesn't mean sex HAS to have x, y and z to be good. 

We all have different bodies and different pros and cons for each. All you can do is work with what you have. If you are missing something that someone _needs_, then you are incompatible and you move on.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So I guess it's a no on micro penises....




Yes. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

bobert said:


> Buddy400 said:
> 
> 
> > Penis size, uncircumcised, whatever, the key point is the bolded ("the sex feels better").
> ...


Yes. This is self assurance. You have decided to just be good with who you are and what you’ve got.

The thing is, I don’t see any usefulness in holding on to or dwelling on things that make us feel bad about ourselves. Like yes of course we have all taken a hit to our ego, someone was better, someone was more beautiful, the sex was better with someone (though not usually as much rough stuff as you have endured bobert). And it hurts and you may have to work through it.

But why hold on to it after you’ve processed it? Why keep focusing on the part of yourself you feel insecure about or keep dwelling on what someone said that hurt? They said it, you take the hit, then you work past it. 

Otherwise you are just torturing yourself.

Do people also build themselves up as much as they tear themselves down? If not, they should. Part of self assurance is knowing what is good about you and what you can bring your unique self to. You don’t have to be arrogant to be self assured. You basically just have to not allow what others say or do to define how you feel about yourself.

Every man I’ve ever had sex with, I assume has been with someone with a better feeling vag or nicer boobs or has something that I don’t have, at least in their youth they did if not recently. It should be fair for them to assume I’ve probably had better this or that as well.

But while I’m having sex with someone, none of that is going on in my head. I’m just focused on how good it all feels. I’ve never once been having sex and thought oh it felt better with such and such ex of mine. No one else even exists in that moment.

I’m also not thinking ugh I wish my tummy looked like it did before I had kids or whatever else like that. I’m just there with him and I know he’s not thinking that about me. 

We do have control over what we think about. Intrusive thoughts may occur, but if you consistently push them aside and replace them with preferred thought, they will dissipate. Whereas if you dwell on them and give them real estate in your head, then you will be stuck with them.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

That's a sticky-worth post (SWP) right there. 

Having said that, there are certain thoughts and emotions (such as penis size, RJ, boob size, butt size) that are just not logical. However, they are real, and they can be debilitating. I would never want to minimize what someone is going through if they are suffering from one of these problems.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

My wife has vocalized a number of her observations through no prompting from me. While I would not say my ego has been damaged by it, it has made it so that there is nothing she could possibly say or do that would make me believe that I am anything physically extraordinary to her. I'm passable.

The rare times she does say something gushing, I know she is trying to do a positive thing, and in her own way, she means it, but it just does not have a positive impact on me the way it might have years ago before I gave up on her ever feeling that way about me.

Sex with her is really good, so there is that, but I will likely never feel that extra bit that @Faithful Wife often describes of having a partner who is completely and totally into me.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Ladies, if your guy is asking about his "P" size, .....and he expects you to have seen a large enough number of them to know what is small, medium and large..........why don't you tell him that he has the most lovely shape you have every seen and that to you it is beautiful and a work of art. Tell him that it is so lovely, you just can't keep your hands or lips off of it.

That should make him smile.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> That's a sticky-worth post (SWP) right there.
> 
> Having said that, there are certain thoughts and emotions (such as penis size, RJ, boob size, butt size) that are just not logical. However, they are real, and they can be debilitating. I would never want to minimize what someone is going through if they are suffering from one of these problems.


Yes and I’ve been there myself. Used to be debilitated by intrusive thoughts. For many years. And it was awful. I mean for years and years.

I finally couldn’t stand it anymore, it was eating my soul. I began to research how to get this to stop. I had to find a way to just be ok with myself. 

The answer was to stop dwelling on those thoughts and replace them with better thoughts. And to find things about myself that I did like and purposely think of those. 

This took several years of diligence with my own mind. Stopping the bad thoughts in their track and not letting them take hold. It was multiple times a day I would battle these thoughts.

And over time, they slowed down. Then after more time they went away almost entirely. But not completely. They still happen but now when they happen I just say to myself oh yeah there’s one of those thoughts again. I don’t give it any power anymore. I just recognize that this is something my brain is doing and it doesn’t mean the thoughts are true.

I can still be easily hurt if someone said something to me that hits me in a sore spot or creates a new one. Then I have to decide if this person meant to hurt me or not. If they did, I need to remove myself from that person. If they didn’t, I need to forgive them for making a blunder. Sometimes I may need to ask them for clarification to know the difference. 

And I also have to stay away from people and places I know will hurt my feelings. To protect myself from it and not go there. 

None of this was easy but my mind now is a safe place that isn’t attacking me all the time. 

I also learned to really believe compliments and accept them. Instead of just oh thanks that’s nice and moving on, I say to myself wow yeah, I do have this nice quality and this person really wants me to know that, they aren’t just blowing smoke up my skirt. I also realized that when someone pays me a compliment but I just gloss over it, this is insulting to the person who said it. 

It was a long but very constructive process. In the end, I’ve realized it’s up to me to address my own insecurities. Every one else is busy working on their own, it’s not their job to work on mine.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

samyeagar said:


> My wife has vocalized a number of her observations through no prompting from me. While I would not say my ego has been damaged by it, it has made it so that there is nothing she could possibly say or do that would make me believe that I am anything physically extraordinary to her. I'm passable.
> 
> The rare times she does say something gushing, I know she is trying to do a positive thing, and in her own way, she means it, but it just does not have a positive impact on me the way it might have years ago before I gave up on her ever feeling that way about me.
> 
> Sex with her is really good, so there is that, but I will likely never feel that extra bit that @Faithful Wife often describes of having a partner who is completely and totally into me.


Women really should not volunteer such information. I do believe discretion is the best policy on past partners.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> My wife has vocalized a number of her observations through no prompting from me. While I would not say my ego has been damaged by it, it has made it so that there is nothing she could possibly say or do that would make me believe that I am anything physically extraordinary to her. I'm passable.
> 
> The rare times she does say something gushing, I know she is trying to do a positive thing, and in her own way, she means it, but it just does not have a positive impact on me the way it might have years ago before I gave up on her ever feeling that way about me.
> 
> Sex with her is really good, so there is that, but I will likely never feel that extra bit that @Faithful Wife often describes of having a partner who is completely and totally into me.


Your case is unusual and extreme and it has always made me angry to hear how your wife talked about other men but then couldn’t be bothered to pay you compliments. I can’t blame you for not believing it if she pays you a compliment now. 

I think - hope - that you are self assured anyway because you know from experience that many women find you attractive. (Also I’ve seen a pic of Sam and he is extraordinarily handsome with a jacked body!) But I don’t see how it wouldn’t hurt you to hear the way she has gone on about other men. I don’t think most men could handle it and would have left her. 

Still makes me angry. But I know you love her so I won’t go on about that.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> The thing is, I don’t see any usefulness in holding on to or dwelling on things that make us feel bad about ourselves. Like yes of course we have all taken a hit to our ego
> 
> But why hold on to it after you’ve processed it?


How else could I live up to my username?



Faithful Wife said:


> Why keep focusing on the part of yourself you feel insecure about or keep dwelling on what someone said that hurt? They said it, you take the hit, then you work past it.
> 
> Otherwise you are just torturing yourself.


Isn't that the point of life?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Your case is unusual and extreme and it has always made me angry to hear how your wife talked about other men but then couldn’t be bothered to pay you compliments. I can’t blame you for not believing it if she pays you a compliment now.
> 
> I think - hope - that you are self assured anyway because you know from experience that many women find you attractive. (Also I’ve seen a pic of Sam and he is extraordinarily handsome with a jacked body!) But I don’t see how it wouldn’t hurt you to hear the way she has gone on about other men. I don’t think most men could handle it and would have left her.
> 
> Still makes me angry. But I know you love her so I won’t go on about that.


I do love her, and her honesty and devotion are beyond reproach. Two things I value very dearly.

She hasn't really damaged my ego or self image because I am comfortable with myself and self assured. But yeah, I think her behaviour has removed a dynamic from our relationship, and that does hurt. Especially one that at least to me would have been so extraordinarily easy and low effort.

I don't really think there was any malice on her part, but I do think that her past is likely the single biggest contributing factor. Her experience showed her that men didn't care what she said about them or anyone else, so long as she made herself sexually available to them. She never had to consider the impact because she could make it all better by spreading her legs or her lips.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Holdingontoit said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is, I don’t see any usefulness in holding on to or dwelling on things that make us feel bad about ourselves. Like yes of course we have all taken a hit to our ego
> ...


Ha ha! You’re one of my favorite posters. You have a hilarious sense of humor, especially given your situation.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ha ha! You’re one of my favorite posters. You have a hilarious sense of humor, especially given your situation.


I live to serve. Such a shame that my wife does not enjoy being serviced.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

I just heard that three out of four people who commit suicide in Canada are men. Why such is disproportionate ratio of men to women? Is size an element? Think about it before you laugh.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Sfort said:


> I just heard that three out of four people who commit suicide in Canada are men. Why such is disproportionate ratio of men to women? Is size an element? Think about it before you laugh.


Well that is a stretch if I've ever heard one. Come on. 

90% of people who _die by_ suicide (no one has "committed" suicide in Canada since 1972) have a mental illness. Men are far less likely to receive treatment. It also has to do with the methods used to die. Yes, more men die by suicide but more women attempt. For every person who dies by suicide, approximately 20 people attempt. Men use methods that are more likely to work (firearms and hanging), while women use methods that do not work as often (overdose and cutting).


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

bobert said:


> Well that is a stretch if I've ever heard one. Come on.


You missed the point, but that's ok.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Sfort said:


> You missed the point, but that's ok.


Are men dying because they have a small penis or believe they have a small penis?

Men are not dying because they have a small penis. They are dying because they have a mental illness and their perception is warped. They see suicide as the only option to solve their problems. Could some of their problems be a small penis? Yes, for sure. Body dysmorphia, anxiety, depression, can all lead to suicide if untreated or not treated properly.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Lila said:


> I read your question and thought "guys, this is a trick question".
> 
> Ron White joke.
> 
> ...


Ya gotta love this!! ( Lol rolling on floor )


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Sfort said:


> I just heard that three out of four people who commit suicide in Canada are men. Why such is disproportionate ratio of men to women? Is size an element? Think about it before you laugh.


Sample size? Is this a riddle?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Sfort said:


> I just heard that three out of four people who commit suicide in Canada are men. Why such is disproportionate ratio of men to women? Is size an element? Think about it before you laugh.


Absolutely. Going back to an old Steinfeld episode on "shrinkage." Well it is cold in Canada and ....... so men have "shrinkage." Then again, when women get cold their nipples tend to protrude.

(Come on this is the Sex in Marriage forum.)

In reality, no size should have no bearing on suicide. I have had a relative commit suicide, it is a horrible thing and takes years for the family to heal from. The new Suicide hotline is 988. It is a number that all should learn.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

cashcratebob said:


> Agreed we shouldn't be!!
> 
> Buuuuut...when you overhear women on separate occasions that a man might as well be dead if his penis is shorter than "x" it can be a little rough for some. But yes, I imagine some men and women say the something similar in regards to females. AAAAAND women are constantly bombarded by what they should look like (men are too...but I just don't think as much or that it is as effective).
> 
> So I dunno. I'm done.


a woman's breasts can be an a cup to d cup and she could be hot whatever size cup she is.
though as a woman's weight goes up eventually there is no cup size that will
compensate for that.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> cashcratebob said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed we shouldn't be!!
> ...


Kinda the same with men. As a mans weight goes up eventually there is no anaconda size that will compensate for that.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Don't let this thread die. It has been fascinating to some of us.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Sfort said:


> Don't let this thread die. It has been fascinating to some of us.




Don’t worry...there will be another one 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

What I'd like to understand is why men tie so much of their manhood or manliness to the sizes of their penises. Why are 80% of men dissatisfied with the sizes of their penises? It's probably not porn since the problem existed before movies and pictures. My theory, not based on anything scientific, is that if a man with an average penis suddenly experienced a two-inch growth, he'd be thrilled for a short period of time, and then it wouldn't be quite long enough. If It had only grown three inches. Think about pay raises. It doesn't matter how much you get...after a few weeks, you adjust, and you could use a little more than you got.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> What I'd like to understand is why men tie so much of their manhood or manliness to the sizes of their penises. Why are 80% of men dissatisfied with the sizes of their penises? It's probably not porn since the problem existed before movies and pictures. My theory, not based on anything scientific, is that if a man with an average penis suddenly experienced a two-inch growth, he'd be thrilled for a short period of time, and then it wouldn't be quite long enough. If It had only grown three inches. Think about pay raises. It doesn't matter how much you get...after a few weeks, you adjust, and you could use a little more than you got.


No clue why men get so fixated on this. 

But some men don’t think about it as much as you seem to fear they do. I’ve been with men who were average or smaller who never worried about it. They had great sex with me, were happy to share their body with me, didn’t ever talk about their peen in a disparaging way, they seemed to have a great relationship with it, in fact.

The same men may have answered a survey saying sure they’d like to be larger if they had the choice. But in real life sexual situations they were confident and just enjoyed what their momma gave them. So did I.

I’ve never been with a man who seemed overly insecure. I’ve had some girlfriends who have been with men who had major body issues. But these were centered around their weight, or in one case he had psoriasis and it made him very self conscious. Never heard any woman in my real life talk about being with a man who talked about penis insecurities.

I know it does happen I’m just thinking it’s not the extreme problem you seem to think it is @Sfort

80% of women would probably answer they aren’t happy with their bodies or some part of their body also. That doesn’t mean they all have crippling insecurities. Some do and we hear about that here sometimes from a frustrated H who thinks she is beautiful. 

So your question of why does this happen...I think the “this” you are talking about is not as much of a problem as you believe it is. Therefore there’s no answer because it’s not actually so deep for most men as you think. No deeper than how the average woman is unhappy with herself. Just normal self doubt.


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but....

I've never encountered a healthy, strong man who obsessed over size

Or refused to try to please his wife because he feared he couldn't 

Or used her past to shield his own insecurities

Or blamed all his problems on my chromosomes


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

justlistening said:


> Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but....
> 
> I've never encountered a healthy, strong man who obsessed over size
> 
> ...


Rarely will a man admit his insecurities to a female partner. That's why this thread and your participation in it are helpful.


----------



## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

Sfort said:


> justlistening said:
> 
> 
> > Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but....
> ...


No. I do not believe, healthy, normal offline men obsess about this. I think men online want to THINK all men do so they will have to confront growing up and moving on.

BTW, I feel the same about women who obsess about "all.men want big boobs" or " they only want size 2"


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Sfort said:


> What I'd like to understand is why men tie so much of their manhood or manliness to the sizes of their penises. Why are 80% of men dissatisfied with the sizes of their penises? It's probably not porn since the problem existed before movies and pictures. My theory, not based on anything scientific, is that if a man with an average penis suddenly experienced a two-inch growth, he'd be thrilled for a short period of time, and then it wouldn't be quite long enough. If It had only grown three inches. Think about pay raises. It doesn't matter how much you get...after a few weeks, you adjust, and you could use a little more than you got.


I honestly don't know why this is the case. I do think that ALL of us in our pre-teen years worry about how we'll measure up when we stop growing. But what I can't figure out is why some people still obsess over it after they become an adult and are actually having sex on a regular basis. Honestly the only thing that matters to me about mine is that I get to use it regularly, she is happy, and I am happy, so what else matters? Am I the biggest or the best she ever had? I don't really know, but it doesn't matter. Because I'm the only one ****ing her now. I assumed most men are this way. I think the retroactive jealousy guys and the guys that get their feelings hurt over size surveys are rare in real life. But I could be wrong. Its not like any of my guy friends say to me that they wish they were bigger.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sfort said:


> justlistening said:
> 
> 
> > Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but....
> ...


Ok but an insecure person cannot convincingly act like a secure person forever.

I’m telling you strait up there are plenty of average sized men who are secure about their penis. We know this because we have been with them. Many average sized men absolutely love their penis and talk with great self love about them. Maybe you’ll just have to trust me on this one, because these same men are not going to tell you or their friends about how proud they are of their bodies. But they will tell their woman.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

The earliest explanations of gender for a boy would generally mention something about the penis. One of the common euphemisms for penis is "manhood" and has been for quite some time. Associating the penis to the essential element of the gender has a long standing personally and culturally.

When I was dealing with some bullying in late elementary school and early middle school, one of the things that was repeated several times was that I did not have and would never develop the equipment necessary to satisfy a woman. Not that any of them actually had any specific knowledge or any thing but whatever. Ironically, the presence or absence of a penis *at all* much less of a particular size was never an issue whether my ex wife had an orgasm or not. If surveys are accurate, lesbians have orgasms more often during sex than heterosexual women so a penis might be a detriment. 

There was a funny exchange after my first child was born. We were having sex for the first time and she asked if I had shrunk in the months we hadn't had sex. I just smiled and said that I didn't think so. She came to me a couple days later saying that she'd mentioned the exchange to her best friend and her friend had pointed out that I was probably slightly smaller than a 6.5 lb baby and she should probably apologize / thank me for being tactful.

The times when I've heard of size being an issue have all been friend of a friend types of things. They might have actually happened or they might not. The stories have ranged from the girl laughing at it and essentially ending a date and/or relationship upon seeing it to asking if it was in during sex (it was).


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Sfort said:


> What I'd like to understand is why men tie so much of their manhood or manliness to the sizes of their penises. Why are 80% of men dissatisfied with the sizes of their penises? It's probably not porn since the problem existed before movies and pictures. My theory, not based on anything scientific, is that if a man with an average penis suddenly experienced a two-inch growth, he'd be thrilled for a short period of time, and then it wouldn't be quite long enough. If It had only grown three inches. Think about pay raises. It doesn't matter how much you get...after a few weeks, you adjust, and you could use a little more than you got.


I'll have a go at this.

Men base a lot of their manhood on being able to attract (and keep) a mate(s). 

Men base a lot of their manhood on being able to sexually satisfy their mate.

Penis size is thought to be a significant component of sexually pleasing your mate (as well as ability to get / maintain an erection).

Women report that their preferred penis size is about an inch and a half longer than the average.

So, who wouldn't prefer to have what the other gender prefers? 

If men prefer blondes, larger breasts, slim figures, there are plenty of women who can (and do) do something about that (hair coloring, implants, diet / exercise).

I'm not saying it's good to be insecure about one's penis size or erections. Of course one shouldn't whine about something over which one has no control. You make the best of what you do have.

I agree that penis size isn't nearly the issue for most women that many men seem to think it is.

I'm just saying that there actually is something to it. It's an issue.

Similarly, some women aren't having body image issues for no reason. Sure, it's probably not as big an issue as an individual may think it is, but it's not like she's just imagining that her body image is a factor.

If you knew a woman who was 6'2" and "big boned", and she was talking about how that made her feel insecure when meeting guys; would you just tell her to "get over it" and that it's just her "fragile female ego"?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Sfort said:
> 
> 
> > What I'd like to understand is why men tie so much of their manhood or manliness to the sizes of their penises. Why are 80% of men dissatisfied with the sizes of their penises? It's probably not porn since the problem existed before movies and pictures. My theory, not based on anything scientific, is that if a man with an average penis suddenly experienced a two-inch growth, he'd be thrilled for a short period of time, and then it wouldn't be quite long enough. If It had only grown three inches. Think about pay raises. It doesn't matter how much you get...after a few weeks, you adjust, and you could use a little more than you got.
> ...


I have had a friend who literally looks like that. We just told her hey honey, you’re going to have to find yourself an NBA player sized dude. And she did eventually. She lived happily ever after.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I have had a friend who literally looks like that. We just told her hey honey, you’re going to have to find yourself an NBA player sized dude. And she did eventually. She lived happily ever after.


Sure. And I assume that most guys with average or below average penises live happily ever after (or at least, their penis size has nothing to do with whether or not they live happily ever after).

But, that doesn't mean it wasn't a real issue for them. Just like your friend's build was a real issue for her.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I have had a friend who literally looks like that. We just told her hey honey, you’re going to have to find yourself an NBA player sized dude. And she did eventually. She lived happily ever after.
> ...


It also doesn’t mean that any of us are directly responsible for healing each other’s insecurities. Not even our friends’.

We are in fact responsible for dealing with our own insecurities, not theirs. We can help and we can support, but none of us are responsible for what another person is going through in their own minds. The basis for their insecurities was not something we created and we have no way of un-creating it either. Yet we all have work we need to do in our own minds about our own feelings of self worth.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My own preference, I would much rather have a man with a great overall physique and an average peen, than an over weight or under weight non muscular dude with a huge penis. 

I think most women would agree with this.

And your physique is something you can actually do something about. I’m not sure why men would spend a lot of time being upset that “women can change the things they don’t like about themselves but we can’t change our penis wahhhhh”. When every man has plenty of ways to make their body better.

This would never happen but - If I’m having sex with a guy who has a huge penis but I’m looking up at a flabby or skin and bones body, nothing the penis is doing is going to matter because I will be so turned off about what I’m seeing. 

So maybe if men do have this insecurity they should listen to what women are actually saying and work on the things they actually can change. We have eyes. We want to see fit strong bodies. We want to touch thick bubbly biceps. Ignore this at your own peril.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I’m not sure why men would spend a lot of time being upset that “women can change the things they don’t like about themselves but we can’t change our penis wahhhhh”. When every man has plenty of ways to make their body better.


I think the only men going on about "women changing things they don't like about themselves, but we can't change our penis wahhhhh" are guys on threads like this confronted with women saying "this is no different then women not being happy about their bodies" and attributing men's concerns as due to "fragile male egos". We're just trying to make the case that the two things are possibly not as comparable as women imagine. Obviously, unsuccessfully.

I, at least, spend no time at all outside of these threads spending time thinking about this topic.

I would imagine that guys who are concerned about their penis size are basically just concerned with that, not how their concern ranks compared with concerns women have about their body image issues.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I’m not sure why men would spend a lot of time being upset that “women can change the things they don’t like about themselves but we can’t change our penis wahhhhh”. When every man has plenty of ways to make their body better.
> ...


Exactly. And women who are insecure don’t bother worrying about men who are insecure either.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@Imreallynotsure said in another thread, "He claims that because of comments from his ex's about the size of his equipment (*definitely on the small side*) he was always afraid he wasn't doing it for me so it was easier to do things himself than it was to do something with me and not get stuck in his head." I thought size didn't matter. She did say later, "*My ex was huge* and I found that to be painful honestly. I've never had any complaints about sex with my husband other than I wanted it more." If she shared this observation with him, and if he's a member of the group of men who concern themselves about such things, she's got other more serious problems than she may recognize. People who guffaw at this problem do not understand it. Some men can understand how some women can obsess over their body image. Some women seem to have trouble understanding how some men obsess over size. Such is the reason for this discussion.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Sfort said:


> @Imreallynotsure said in another thread, "He claims that because of comments from his ex's about the size of his equipment (*definitely on the small side*) he was always afraid he wasn't doing it for me so it was easier to do things himself than it was to do something with me and not get stuck in his head." I thought size didn't matter. She did say later, "*My ex was huge* and I found that to be painful honestly. I've never had any complaints about sex with my husband other than I wanted it more." If she shared this observation with him, and if he's a member of the group of men who concern themselves about such things, she's got other more serious problems than she may recognize. People who guffaw at this problem do not understand it. Some men can understand how some women can obsess over their body image. Some women seem to have trouble understanding how some men obsess over size. Such is the reason for this discussion.


I believe most women can empathize with the men who struggle with this. Instead of thinking of it as "some women seem to have trouble understanding how some men obsess over size", think of it as "most women have obsessed over body image and can relate. They understand that it's something only the person experiencing it can fix."

Some men may be misconstruing women choosing not to take responsibility for a man's lack of self confidence with regards to penis size as a lack of empathy. That's not correct. Most women know exactly what it's like to feel "lacking" with regards to body image. We also know it's not anyone else's responsibility to fix it.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Lila said:


> I believe most women can empathize with the men who struggle with this. Instead of thinking of it as "some women seem to have trouble understanding how some men obsess over size", think of it as "most women have obsessed over body image and can relate. They understand that it's something only the person experiencing it can fix."
> 
> Some men may be misconstruing women choosing not to take responsibility for a man's lack of self confidence with regards to penis size as a lack of empathy. That's not correct. Most women know exactly what it's like to feel "lacking" with regards to body image. *We also know it's not anyone else's responsibility to fix it*.


It may not be anyone else's responsibility to fix it, but it is nice if one's partner has awareness and empathy enough to not make it worse.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Good post, @Lila. However, I wonder if I'm making my questions and comments clear. My good friend @Faithful Wife seems to want to take me to task as if I'm criticizing women, which I am not. Never! You said,


Lila said:


> Some men may be misconstruing women choosing not to take responsibility for a man's lack of self confidence with regards to penis size as a lack of empathy.


To be clear, a man's insecurity is a man's problem. I don't for a microsecond believe that a male's insecurity is necessarily the female's fault, and it's certainly not her obligation to take responsibility for a man's lack of self confidence. The truth is, ANYONE, male (porn) or female (sexual partner), can exacerbate the insecurities of a male who struggles with the size issue, but that doesn't mean that the problem belongs to anyone other than the insecure male. The candid discussions here are useful so that we can help us understand each other. No defense is necessary since there are no attacks. I refer back to the story I posted about Karen Carpenter. One Billboard Magazine reporter's comment that she was "chubby" ultimately resulted in her death. Should the reporter have been charged with murder? Of course not. He had no way of knowing that the comment would ultimately lead to her developing anorexia. Should he have been more sensitive? I wish he had been, but he was just a jerk who, I'm sure, was not perfect. I hope he has a small penis. :laugh:


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> It may not be anyone else's responsibility to fix it, but it is nice if one's partner has awareness and empathy enough to not make it worse.


Absolutely but things can be taken to extremes. 

There's a threshold level of empathetic awareness we should all maintain but that shouldn't mean we should walk on eggshells for fear of triggering someone else. 

There are people who have no filter and will say everything and anything that comes to mind because that's just how they are. That's an extreme. "Normal" people are not like that. The example provided earlier is an example of a regular discussion where the woman mentioned something in passing...and she mentioned it to make her spouse feel better but he took it as a negative. That's an extreme on The other side.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Ah, but who gets to define "normal"? One person's extreme is another person's normal.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > I believe most women can empathize with the men who struggle with this. Instead of thinking of it as "some women seem to have trouble understanding how some men obsess over size", think of it as "most women have obsessed over body image and can relate. They understand that it's something only the person experiencing it can fix."
> ...


In your case, I absolutely agree that your spouse did not protect you at all and continually made things worse. I think maybe she has a little more understanding now but she still really said some stupid stuff for a very long time.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> My own preference, I would much rather have a man with a great overall physique and an average peen, than an over weight or under weight non muscular dude with a huge penis.
> 
> I think most women would agree with this.
> 
> ...


I have said this about women: a woman would so much better looking hitting the gym hard
and being slim and fit then doing breast implants and lips inflated. being fit and trim looks
so much better than fake boobs.

icing on the cake is long hair.

not anti cosmetic surgery. I knew a girl that had jug ears. I swear her ears were at a 90<
to her head. then a few women that would put Toucan Sam out of work.

I can see those ears pulled back some to be closer to fall into the normal range.
same with noses. not go through a major overall size reduction, rather smooth
out the big bump/hook. left with a nose that fits the face because it is kept 
proportional.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Sfort said:


> Ah, but who gets to define "normal"? One person's extreme is another person's normal.


normal is based on math. 

it is the range that most things fall into

those that have a nose that is a bit on the large size but fall into the average
range are normal.

those with noses that are larger then the average range are large, big, huge,
do not have to have self image problems. some do some do not.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Sfort said:


> Good post, @Lila. However, I wonder if I'm making my questions and comments clear. My good friend @Faithful Wife seems to want to take me to task as if I'm criticizing women, which I am not. Never! You said, To be clear, a man's insecurity is a man's problem. I don't for a microsecond believe that a male's insecurity is necessarily the female's fault, and it's certainly not her obligation to take responsibility for a man's lack of self confidence. The truth is, ANYONE, male (porn) or female (sexual partner), can exacerbate the insecurities of a male who struggles with the size issue, but that doesn't mean that the problem belongs to anyone other than the insecure male. The candid discussions here are useful so that we can help us understand each other. No defense is necessary since there are no attacks. I refer back to the story I posted about Karen Carpenter. One Billboard Magazine reporter's comment that she was "chubby" ultimately resulted in her death. Should the reporter have been charged with murder? Of course not. He had no way of knowing that the comment would ultimately lead to her developing anorexia. Should he have been more sensitive? I wish he had been, but he was just a jerk who, I'm sure, was not perfect. I hope he has a small penis. :laugh:


So what is the point of your questions and comments? I'm not sure anymore.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Lila said:


> So what is the point of your questions and comments? I'm not sure anymore.


I'm trying to say that most men are not blaming women for their insecurities. A woman can trigger a man's insecurities by commenting negatively about his size or technique. A man can trigger a woman's insecurities by tell her she has a big butt. There's nothing accusatory in my posts.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

@Lila said, "There are people who have no filter and will say everything and anything that comes to mind because that's just how they are. That's an extreme. 'Normal' people are not like that." In her case, "normal" is referring to behavior, not physical attributes. That was the focus of my question.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Sfort said:


> I'm trying to say that most men are not blaming women for their insecurities. A woman can trigger a man's insecurities by commenting negatively about his size or technique. A man can trigger a woman's insecurities by tell her she has a big butt. There's nothing accusatory in my posts.


We have acknowledged that people are triggered everyday by all kinds of things. 

Why is that important to this discussion?


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

*"My question is, and I am naïve for even asking, but is there any way that she was not aware of the sizes of men’s penises?"*

This was OP's original question. It's been answered and then some (poor guy). 

He's well aware of how he measures up. What seems to be the real problem is his ability to trust what his wife tells him. His first thread highlights the situation.


----------



## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

One day a man hired a prostitute. Once the wheres, the whats, and the fee had been settled on, they went to her "place of work".

So, the john drops trou, and the hooker starts laughing. "Who do you think you're going to please with that little thing?"

The john starts laughing along with her, points to himself, and says, "Me!"


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Lila said:


> Absolutely but things can be taken to extremes.
> 
> There's a threshold level of empathetic awareness we should all maintain but that shouldn't mean we should walk on eggshells for fear of triggering someone else.
> 
> There are people who have no filter and will say everything and anything that comes to mind because that's just how they are. That's an extreme. "Normal" people are not like that. The example provided earlier is an example of a regular discussion where the woman mentioned something in passing...and she mentioned it to make her spouse feel better but he took it as a negative. That's an extreme on The other side.


There is also a quality that David Schnarch in his books refers to a marital sadism. That is after you have been married to a person for a long time you know their hot buttons and they know yours. In some marriages on partner gets joy or happiness from ripping the emotional heart out of their partner. This can destroy a marriage unless the victim feels they cannot leave.

Sometimes it is not so much active cruelty as it is indifference or neglect. One of Schnarch's stories is about a woman who knows that her husband would love her to have sex in a certain way. He marvels at how in a 30 to 50 year marriage it is beyond belief that based on random experimentation, that certain way would be avoided for all those years unless one of them was making sure it never happened. The point is sometimes lack of emotional support is an active choice.

I don't know the OP's situation or his wife's motivation. I assume he has serious body self image issues. As other have said that is his problem he needs to ultimately address. Still we don't know what his wife may have said that triggered his self image issues or if it is all his mind problem. Or if it was triggered by past statements or specific avoidance in addressing his fears. We all owe our spouse some kindness and emotional support.

Typically with body self image issues, you need a supporting and healing environment along with active rewiring of your beliefs and mind. Affirmations, self hypnosis, changes in body brought about by exercise or other means (some sources say loosing 20+ pounds of fat can give a man an extra inch of visible length) can all help cure self image issues, but a nurturing spouse is also a great help.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

What I don't get is why anyone would ever do either of those things.

I also don't get why anyone would ever ask. 



Sfort said:


> I'm trying to say that most men are not blaming women for their insecurities. A woman can trigger a man's insecurities by commenting negatively about his size or technique. A man can trigger a woman's insecurities by tell her she has a big butt. There's nothing accusatory in my posts.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

uhtred said:


> What I don't get is why anyone would ever do either of those things.
> 
> I also don't get why anyone would ever ask.


If you've never experienced it, it's clear why you don't understand it.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

uhtred said:


> What I don't get is why anyone would ever do either of those things.
> 
> I also don't get why anyone would ever ask.


Why would anyone comment on a man's penis size?

I was once in an abusive relationship and I was pushed to the edge. One day I got the courage to try to stand up for myself and I lashed out at his penis size. It was not a rational decision to make that comment. I knew I would pay for it as I was saying it but I was broken and desperate and at the end of my rope.

I paid for that comment in unspeakable ways. I will NEVER forget. And I will NEVER do that again with anyone.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

JustTheWife said:


> I lashed out at his penis size.


Was it a legitimate complaint, or were you just trying to hurt him? How did it end?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

uhtred said:


> What I don't get is why anyone would ever do either of those things.
> 
> I also don't get why anyone would ever ask.


Sometimes, we don't ask. But, we get told in ways which are similar to @JustTheWife commented. Revenge, blame-shifting. Mine told me to justify her adultery and promiscuity. "...see - if you only had a 9-inch dong....I wouldn't have cheated....."



JustTheWife said:


> I paid for that comment in unspeakable ways.


My XW did not pay in an unspeakable way. However, I know she was aware that she had a chance at reconciliation, were it not for that comment. She later asked me "....what if I told you that it was a lie?......" to which I replied, "...I wouldn't believe you....".

34 years of (still) thinking about it.... I don't know if it was a lie....


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Sfort said:


> Was it a legitimate complaint, or were you just trying to hurt him? How did it end?


yes, he was small. and yes, I was just trying to hurt him. Yes to both.

Like I said, it was irrational. Basically in my head, I started to hate him for what he put me through physically and mentally. So it was almost a knee-jerk reaction. Like he thinks he's such a big man constantly putting me down and abusing me. So when trying to stand up for myself, I wanted to put him in his place that he really wasn't a "big man". He was physically very strong and dominating and he was nasty to me. But for all of this power, he really lacked real "man power". I called out the truth that I'm sure he also knew. For all of this bluster and power, that was his little weakness.

How did it end? I was broken and he took everything from me. Nothing more to give to him. He was done with me and I was done with him.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

JustTheWife said:


> yes, he was small. and yes, I was just trying to hurt him. Yes to both.
> 
> Like I said, it was irrational. Basically in my head, I started to hate him for what he put me through physically and mentally. So it was almost a knee-jerk reaction. Like he thinks he's such a big man constantly putting me down and abusing me. So when trying to stand up for myself, I wanted to put him in his place that he really wasn't a "big man". He was physically very strong and dominating and he was nasty to me. *But for all of this power, he really lacked real "man power".*


I understand what you did and why you did it. I'm sorry you had to endure that relationship. If I were you, I would probably have done the same thing. But your post actually partially answers the question, "Why do men worry so much about their size?" The answer is, when the chips are down, the truth comes out, and (some) women say what they actually mean. Size DOES matter to them even though they say it doesn't. The bizarre part is that 80% of men who complain about size are average or above. Go figure.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

JustTheWife said:


> Why would anyone comment on a man's penis size?
> 
> I was once in an abusive relationship and I was pushed to the edge. One day I got the courage to try to stand up for myself and I lashed out at his penis size. It was not a rational decision to make that comment. I knew I would pay for it as I was saying it but I was broken and desperate and at the end of my rope.
> 
> I paid for that comment in unspeakable ways. I will NEVER forget. And I will NEVER do that again with anyone.


It is the nuclear option (if it applies).

Many women have at least one thing that would result in an immediate negative emotional and/or violent response. Something that is a relationship killer even in a long term relationship. If the guy knows what yours is, it is almost certainly coming out after the penis insult.

On the other hand, it is a little odd that it is so important to so many men. Women have sex after having babies and enjoy it (not immediately after of course). Fisting is a thing that some people do and enjoy and are still able to have PIV sex. I've seen surveys that said that the majority of women enjoy activities that aren't PIV (or aren't only PIV) more than PIV itself.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sfort said:


> @Imreallynotsure said in another thread, "He claims that because of comments from his ex's about the size of his equipment (*definitely on the small side*) he was always afraid he wasn't doing it for me so it was easier to do things himself than it was to do something with me and not get stuck in his head." I thought size didn't matter. She did say later, "*My ex was huge* and I found that to be painful honestly. I've never had any complaints about sex with my husband other than I wanted it more." If she shared this observation with him, and if he's a member of the group of men who concern themselves about such things, she's got other more serious problems than she may recognize. People who guffaw at this problem do not understand it. Some men can understand how some women can obsess over their body image. Some women seem to have trouble understanding how some men obsess over size. Such is the reason for this discussion.


I liked on this because insecurities and obsessing are real issues. Discussions are important with an emphasis on listening to important and pertinent information like the post below. I don't really guffaw but I definitely roll my eyes or start developing a mild headache when I see some of the destruction insecurities and obsessing can do. The husband in your example should really listen to his wife. Mrs. Conan's first husband was hung like a moose however she prefers sex with me and everything else as well. Her marriage barely lasted 2 years with him and we are into our 25th, 29 years since our first date. Mrs. C likes my less than gigantic tool a lot but she really gets off on the rest before, during and after sex. Listen to the lady I quoted below.


Faithful Wife said:


> My own preference, I would much rather have a man with a great overall physique and an average peen, than an over weight or under weight non muscular dude with a huge penis.
> 
> I think most women would agree with this.
> 
> ...


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

TJW said:


> Sometimes, we don't ask. But, we get told in ways which are similar to @JustTheWife commented. Revenge, blame-shifting. Mine told me to justify her adultery and promiscuity. "...see - if you only had a 9-inch dong....I wouldn't have cheated....."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i was not blame shifting. Nor was I trying to justify anything. He was abusive (physical and emotional). An abuser. 

This was a long time ago. My wounds have healed and I moved on, regained some of my self respect. I hope he has made his life better and got help for his anger, control issues, and problems with violence. Working on the things he CAN improve.

If anyone is seeing me as a b**** for making that comment, you can rest assured that I did not "get away with it". I paid dearly. Although he regular took his bad days out on me when drunk, this time it was personal and he meant business. And he paid back with what in his sick little mind he thought was "justice" related to that comment.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm also sorry you had to endure his abuse. No one deserves that. And, it is clearly the fault of the abuser, not of the abused.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Sfort said:


> I understand what you did and why you did it. I'm sorry you had to endure that relationship. If I were you, I would probably have done the same thing. But your post actually partially answers the question, "Why do men worry so much about their size?" The answer is, when the chips are down, the truth comes out, and (some) women say what they actually mean. Size DOES matter to them even though they say it doesn't. The bizarre part is that 80% of men who complain about size are average or above. Go figure.


Well yes, the truth is that if I wasn't getting knocked around physically and emotionally abused by him, I would have been a "good girl" and kept my feelings about his penis to myself. That's what you're supposed to do.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

No, sorry, I cannot agree with "that's what you're supposed to do". 

Firstly, it is not his fault that you decided to usurp the authority of God and seek revenge at your own hand. This was your choice. However, I do not condone his violent reaction to what you did, nor do I in any way think that his reaction was "just". 

Upon learning of your feelings about his penis, he should have hauled a$$. He wasn't married to you, he wasn't responsible to any children with you, he was simply involved in a sinful tryst. If he were properly introspective, his hurt feelings from your comment should have prompted him to repentance of his own sin.

The very first time you were attacked and abused by him, it should have caused a call to the police, a sworn-out warrant, and charges pressed against him for battery. You should not have remained in the relationship, giving him any chance for repeat performances. It is God who has set local authorities in power, and who has given them the "right of repayment".


If those were your feelings about his penis, then you should have let him go and found someone whose penis you felt good about, instead of basing your relationship to him upon lies and deceit.

You have similar feelings about your husband. Your first posts expressed this, although you did not mention penis size, you are dissatisfied with his technique and his lack of strong pursuit.

This is why many of us urge you to bring truth into your marriage and seek your husband's forgiveness for your deception.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TJW said:


> This is why many of us urge you to bring truth into your marriage and seek your husband's forgiveness for your deception.


More than a bit harsh I think. These may be your feelings, but there are others here who are expressing that she should be considering the reasons why the false narrative could fall apart, and the consequences of that becoming greater, not less, as time goes on. This is not, for some of us, about seeking forgiveness for deception. If I were to personalize it from my own experiences, yes. But this is not about me.

That she is in a truly awful situation comes from your perspective, and perhaps mine. But her own perspective remains the most-important. 

And let's say she takes your advice (which is not too far from mine), confesses to her husband, and not only does he leave the marriage, but his whole life spirals downward from that point on. That would not mean that she made the wrong choice (telling him), but that possibility has to be considered by her. How can that not weigh in on the decision? She might be fine with judgment that costs her something, but not so much if it carries a cost to her husband.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You never should have had to pay for it in an unspeakable or any other way. Some sort of snap mocking response is all it deserves. (since it is rude, but not inexcusable).











JustTheWife said:


> Why would anyone comment on a man's penis size?
> 
> I was once in an abusive relationship and I was pushed to the edge. One day I got the courage to try to stand up for myself and I lashed out at his penis size. It was not a rational decision to make that comment. I knew I would pay for it as I was saying it but I was broken and desperate and at the end of my rope.
> 
> I paid for that comment in unspeakable ways. I will NEVER forget. And I will NEVER do that again with anyone.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Sfort said:
> 
> 
> > I understand what you did and why you did it. I'm sorry you had to endure that relationship. If I were you, I would probably have done the same thing. But your post actually partially answers the question, "Why do men worry so much about their size?" The answer is, when the chips are down, the truth comes out, and (some) women say what they actually mean. Size DOES matter to them even though they say it doesn't. The bizarre part is that 80% of men who complain about size are average or above. Go figure.
> ...


I am so sorry about that. I’m sorry you endured abuse. You are being so brave to open up here, from the very beginning you have shown us your heart and soul and shared experiences that are so personal and intimate. 

You have taken a lot of jabs here but I think overall most of us really enjoy your participation here because of your strength. And I don’t know for sure, but it seems that at this time in your life you have come to terms with so many things. You said you are insecure about your past and that reads in your posts, but you are also honest with us and yourself in those posts. So you seem to have some self assurance and inner security that you have developed because of your experiences and your personality. 

Thank you for sharing yourself with us.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

TJW said:


> No, sorry, I cannot agree with "that's what you're supposed to do".
> 
> Firstly, it is not his fault that you decided to usurp the authority of God and seek revenge at your own hand. This was your choice. However, I do not condone his violent reaction to what you did, nor do I in any way think that his reaction was "just".
> 
> ...


Thank you for your candid response. I'm not really sure how to respond but I'll try.

It's wrong to say that my relationship with this guy was based on "lies and deceit" because I didn't comment on his penis size when I first saw it! If you put the abuse aside for a second, do you think that women are supposed to give full feedback on his size when she first sees it? Tell them where theirs fits size-wise with the other ones you've had? I don't think this is a good way to start off. And you say that I should have got out of there when I first saw it. Really? My problem with him was that he was an abuser and a monster. I could have lived with the small penis.

Like many men here, you are making too much of penis size and making it too black and white. A guy's penis is what it is and it's part of the whole guy. I see a lot of comments from men here that fail to appreciate that and see it as black and white - it's good or bad. Big or small. Love it or hate it. Of course sometimes you think about size or whatever but it's not like you're constantly obsessing on his size vs others or whatever. Just speaking for myself here. If you have a real problem with your partner's penis, then sure, break up with them and find another one. But just because your partner might be small it doesn't necessarily mean that you have a real problem with it. Or that you can't make it work for you. i mean, penises have a very wide range of sizes and every woman will have different definition of "small" and limit to how big or small it is before it's a "problem" for her.

I'm sure this guy knew he was small. If he was a great guy it really wouldn't be an issue and I wouldn't comment on him being small. I'd just appreciate it for what it was, even if i might prefer bigger. I know I was wrong to make that comment. I learned my lesson like you wouldn't believe. I don't understand why you say that i usurped the authority of God. OK, yes, some of it was revenge and I'm not proud of that. But I just told the truth. The truth that he already knew. He took a lot from me and unfortunately he pushed me to say something that I shouldn't have said.

Which brings me to a thought which someone else kind of alluded to. I think that at least part of the "size problem" for some men is that it's always hanging over their head with their partner. I mean, when things get difficult in a relationship and (as someone put it), the "chips are down". You're fighting. You're both trying to hurt each other. At any point, she can pull that insult. I mean, if you've got a small penis do you really want to be calling your wife nasty names? Just a thought.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I am so sorry about that. I’m sorry you endured abuse. You are being so brave to open up here, from the very beginning you have shown us your heart and soul and shared experiences that are so personal and intimate.
> 
> You have taken a lot of jabs here but I think overall most of us really enjoy your participation here because of your strength. And I don’t know for sure, but it seems that at this time in your life you have come to terms with so many things. You said you are insecure about your past and that reads in your posts, but you are also honest with us and yourself in those posts. So you seem to have some self assurance and inner security that you have developed because of your experiences and your personality.
> 
> Thank you for sharing yourself with us.


I appreciate your very kind words. Thank you for taking the time to say this.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

JustTheWife said:


> Thank you for your candid response. I'm not really sure how to respond but I'll try.
> 
> It's wrong to say that my relationship with this guy was based on "lies and deceit" because I didn't comment on his penis size when I first saw it! If you put the abuse aside for a second, do you think that women are supposed to give full feedback on his size when she first sees it? Tell them where theirs fits size-wise with the other ones you've had? I don't think this is a good way to start off. And you say that I should have got out of there when I first saw it. Really? My problem with him was that he was an abuser and a monster. I could have lived with the small penis.
> 
> ...


Aren't we making a big deal out of a failed relationship that never had a chance to succeed, and thank goodness it went bad sooner than later? Insulting the guy's penis wasn't much different than saying a woman sucks in bed, both said in the anger of the moment and both indications of two people who shouldn't be together. Childish remarks that might indicate there's some growing up to do for either party but hey, who doesn't need to (grow up) sometimes? Long way of saying your situation, and the response, doesn't really fit what this thread was about.


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