# The first counseling session..argh.



## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm not sure it went well at all. The counselor seemed great. She said at one point that she wants to see us separately. Not sure if thats good or not (?) My wife said she doesn't know if she wants to continue in the marriage. We did not talk on the drive home or most of the day today. I initiated conversation as usual and it is strained to say the least. 

One thing that stick out in my mind as being very unusual is she told me that she is going to church tomorrow. She has not been to church in over 25 years. Never had any desire to go since we have been together. Then she told me she told our kids that she was going and they could come if they wanted. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but should she have not had a conversation with me about this before hand? Something along the lines of "I'm thinking about going to church and asking the kids if they want to come along, how do you feel about that?"

Of course the counseling session opened some very ugly wounds and this is just the tip of the iceberg. She has already made an appointment to see the therapist separately. I asked when it was and she wouldn't tell me. 

I'm not sure what is going to happen to our marriage. It' scary for me for sure but it would seem that it is not for her as here I am up late typing and she is fast asleep. 

I'm most likely going to tag along to church tomorrow, it's not my thing but it will be the first time our kids have gone so I thought I'd better be there for posterity although I may feel differently in the morning. 

I don't think I'm asking for any advice here but if anyone has anything to add that's cool. Thanks for reading.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Marriage counselors usually have at least one meeting with each spouse seperately. 

Take it one day at a time I guess.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I still remember my first counceling session..oh boy was it bad! When we got in the car we looked at eachother and just started laughing (just our sense of humor) and said we were going to be divorced in no time!

Your wife was obviously shaken by it as well, hence, wanting to go to church. Its a good idea to go with her. It is normal to see each spouse separately as well. Just breathe, try to stay relaxed and take things as they come.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi Canada guy. I think your MC could have prepared you both a little better. Yes, seeing each person individually is important. After leaving a session, it is common to withdraw as you process some things brought up or new insight into something old. Some couples fight a lot more in the beginning of MC because unresolved issues are being brought up that need to be resolved. Other couples retreat even more as they process the issues, feelings and desires about the future.

The first MC session should have been more about why you are there and what your hope/desires are that the MC can guide you both toward. Also, there should have been a brief explanation on how to do therapy and this is something a LOT of MC leave out. It's time consuming and sometimes completely ineffective. But see what happened to you? You left MC with all these issues swirling around, as did your wife, but neither of you were given advice on how to communicate, what to expect, and what is normal after a session.

I think MC should be held accountable for properly educating their clients. Give the MC a call and explain what's been happening and ask if there is a pamphlet or hand out on what you and your wife might encounter as you process your sessions. Don't turn the call into a session, just an update with question.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks Anon Pink that is very helpful advice and insight. I will talk to the counselor about discussing what could happen to "us" during this journey.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

My recommendation?

Don't look at counseling as the method or vehicle to 'fix' your marriage. Because if you view it in that light, it's track record is horrible. Counseling doesn't fix marriages. 

View it as the method or vehicle for helping define what is important for you in a marriage ... and based upon that you can determine if this one is worth saving, or needs to be ended.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Deejo said:


> My recommendation?
> 
> Don't look at counseling as the method or vehicle to 'fix' your marriage. Because if you view it in that light, it's track record is horrible. Counseling doesn't fix marriages.
> 
> View it as the method or vehicle for helping define what is important for you in a marriage ... and based upon that you can determine if this one is worth saving, or needs to be ended.


Thanks Deejo. The counselor has sent us both some questions to answer. They are inline with your comments. Helping define what is important for me in a marriage. I've been working on answering them and as I think about the answers it has occurred to me just how opposite what I have been getting in the marriage has been to what I need and want. I have let myself get to this place by being a "nice guy" lol. 

The thing is if we get divorced I'll be very well off financially and probably have more and better sex over the course of a month with some other babe than I've had in the last few years.

So why am I interested at all in saving this marriage? I really don't think at this point she can and does give me anything I need. And I really don't think she will change at all because based on her behavior she does not value the relationship and would rather be single or at least with some one other than me. I will give it till July in counseling unless it all goes sideways before that. 

I'm going to start looking for a good ruthless divorce attorney now instead of waiting to see what happens. I think it prudent to be ready for the business deal. The laws in Canada are changing favorably for divorce, custody etc after March 18th so if I file it will be after that. 

She is still not talking to me. lol. Except to tell me that she's still not sure wether she wants to be in this marriage or not. Whatever. In other words she has been behaving like she has for the last 10 years or so. lol.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> She is still not talking to me. lol. Except to tell me that she's still not sure wether she wants to be in this marriage or not. Whatever. In other words she has been behaving like she has for the last 10 years or so. lol.


I found it rather interesting that when I acted decisively with my wife during the early days of seperation she seems to have "snapped" and "went in line" and then wanted to work on our marriage, even doing everything right for 3 months.

Now I'm not so decisive and it seems her tentacles are coming out again. Sometimes I wonder if we men really can't afford to be nice to women, or maybe it's just our wives?



> I'm going to start looking for a good ruthless divorce attorney now instead of waiting to see what happens. I think it prudent to be ready for the business deal. The laws in Canada are changing favorably for divorce, custody etc after March 18th so if I file it will be after that.


The laws here in Australia are messed up, we can't instant divorce, instead have to go through a 1 year seperation, and it's no fault.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

CanadianGuy said:


> Thanks Deejo. The counselor has sent us both some questions to answer. They are inline with your comments. Helping define what is important for me in a marriage. I've been working on answering them and as I think about the answers it has occurred to me just how opposite what I have been getting in the marriage has been to what I need and want. I have let myself get to this place by being a "nice guy" lol.
> 
> The thing is if we get divorced I'll be very well off financially and probably have more and better sex over the course of a month with some other babe than I've had in the last few years.
> 
> ...


CG, what's changing? Got a link you can send me to? Did my procrastination finally pay off? 

C


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> I found it rather interesting that when I acted decisively with my wife during the early days of seperation she seems to have "snapped" and "went in line" and then wanted to work on our marriage, even doing everything right for 3 months.
> 
> Now I'm not so decisive and it seems her tentacles are coming out again. Sometimes I wonder if we men really can't afford to be nice to women, or maybe it's just our wives?
> 
> ...


We cannot instant divorce either and we have to be separated for a year and it too is no fault. However the laws that are changing surrounding custody/child support and other things are being changed for the better. I can wait it out for a year. lol. 

As a comedian asked. "Why does divorce cost so much?"

"Because it's worth it."


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

PBear said:


> CG, what's changing? Got a link you can send me to? Did my procrastination finally pay off?
> 
> C


Not really sure how to answer this PBear as I'm unclear about the question. 

I'll give you a brief synopsis. Hopefully it's what you're after. 

When I joined TAM in June of last year I was at the end of my rope. I could not understand certain emotions and behaviors I was a slave too. I learned it was because I felt powerless in my marriage and would lash out and had become IMO someone I did not know. Why I wondered. That's how I ended up here. 

Short answer is: I am taking the power back in myself. I now act in a manor that puts my happiness first not hers. This has destabilized the marriage incredibly. It's freaky. I never want to go back to the way it was. It was very very unhealthy for me both physically and mentally. The transformation has been slow but amazing. Every day builds on the next and I get stronger and stronger. This time last year I would have never have had the insight to write what I did in this last post. The people on this site have been incredibly helpful and without some of the guidance and recommendations for books etc. I'd probably be in a mental institution. lol.


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## Dawn of Man (Feb 22, 2013)

CanadianGuy said:


> Short answer is: I am taking the power back in myself. I now act in a manor that puts my happiness first not hers. This has destabilized the marriage incredibly. It's freaky. I never want to go back to the way it was. It was very very unhealthy for me both physically and mentally. The transformation has been slow but amazing. Every day builds on the next and I get stronger and stronger. This time last year I would have never have had the insight to write what I did in this last post. The people on this site have been incredibly helpful and without some of the guidance and recommendations for books etc. I'd probably be in a mental institution. lol.


This is awesome, and it ties in with that approach that you need to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

It's true in Canada you need a one year seperation however you don't have to have been living apart for that one year. If you're in agreement you can claim you haven't been living as husband and wife for the past year and get divorced right away.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

CanadianGuy said:


> Not really sure how to answer this PBear as I'm unclear about the question.
> 
> I'll give you a brief synopsis. Hopefully it's what you're after.
> 
> ...



Sorry for not being specific! I mean, how are the laws changing in Canada? I haven't started my divorce proceedings yet, but I want to get that done this year.

C


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

PBear said:


> Sorry for not being specific! I mean, how are the laws changing in Canada? I haven't started my divorce proceedings yet, but I want to get that done this year.
> 
> C


I may be mistaken if it's all of Canada. They are changing in my Province though. I can only offer that you talk to a lawyer about the specifics. I read about it in our local paper.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

When I was going through it I frequented a divorce forum. There was a lot of discussion about court settlements. I didn't get a sense it was the law itself so much as the application of the law. Family court seems to have certain biases that in my estimation are rooted in the 1950's style family. (i.e. woman is a homemaker with limited earning potential and man is the breadwinner with no ability to care for the children). The best arrangements seemed to be negotiated agreements that occurred without going to court. 

I know in my case I was terrified of family court and gave up the majority of marital assets in order to get agreement on shared custody of the kids. I was confident I could earn back the money I gave up but there would be no way I could get back my kids childhoods if I was excluded. I don't regret my decision.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> When I was going through it I frequented a divorce forum. There was a lot of discussion about court settlements. I didn't get a sense it was the law itself so much as the application of the law. Family court seems to have certain biases that in my estimation are rooted in the 1950's style family. (i.e. woman is a homemaker with limited earning potential and man is the breadwinner with no ability to care for the children). The best arrangements seemed to be negotiated agreements that occurred without going to court.
> 
> I know in my case I was terrified of family court and gave up the majority of marital assets in order to get agreement on shared custody of the kids. I was confident I could earn back the money I gave up but there would be no way I could get back my kids childhoods if I was excluded. I don't regret my decision.


I believe from what I have read that the archaic rules you mentioned are changing for the better. And as 75% of women initiate divorce it's about time.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

CanadianGuy said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but should she have not had a conversation with me about this before hand? Something along the lines of "I'm thinking about going to church and asking the kids if they want to come along, how do you feel about that?"


I'd say it depends on the ages of the children and what, if any family religious affiliation may already exist. 

Church attendance was a major issue in my family because of the religions divide between us. (Liberal, Jewish agnostic married to conservative, Christian fundamentalist) 

In the U.S., a child can refuse to attend church before the age of majority, at around 16. 

It doesn't sound like this is the biggest challenge in your marriage though.


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> I'd say it depends on the ages of the children and what, if any family religious affiliation may already exist.
> 
> Church attendance was a major issue in my family because of the religions divide between us. (Liberal, Jewish agnostic married to conservative, Christian fundamentalist)
> 
> ...


Thanks ocotillo. The issue is not religion but the fact that she felt it was okay not to ask or even discuss it before late on Saturday evening. It really points to all the other things she does not feel it necessary to discuss with me as she acts like a single parent. She told me the other night that an important aspect of marriage for her is team work. Does that sound like team work to you? When a team makes a play is it not important to discuss what that play is going to be? Or was late in the evening the night before good enough? For some things that may have been okay as we don't need to discuss every little detail of our lives but I think you get where I'm going with this.

What she really means by team work is "I'm calling all the plays and you can follow them".


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## debster (Dec 17, 2012)

So did you go to church with her?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

debster said:


> So did you go to church with her?


No. My son did not want to go so I stayed home with him.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

CanadianGuy said:


> One thing that stick out in my mind as being very unusual is she told me that she is going to church tomorrow. She has not been to church in over 25 years. Never had any desire to go since we have been together. Then she told me she told our kids that she was going and they could come if they wanted.


You could look at this two ways.

1) She might really be starting to get religion. It's not unusual, particularly for women, to gravitate toward attending church in times of trouble. Plus, churches over the last few decades have become much more oriented towards women (see the website churchformen.com for an overview).

2) She might cynically be using church to sway your (or guilt you). If you went to the church-for-men website, you would have seen that many modern churches are less about religion and more about family; less about saving souls, and more about saving marriages.

If she tries the "till death do us part" line, you should counter with the "wives submit to your husbands" line (which, unlike the previous line, actually is in the Bible--in multiple places no less).


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